00:06:45 [wiki] [[Brainscrambler]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47195&oldid=20934 * 78.67.213.26 * (+68) 00:17:31 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 00:24:20 -!- moon_ has quit (Quit: hbot: rm *). 00:34:16 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:43:34 -!- moon_ has joined. 00:50:02 -!- dnm has joined. 00:59:26 `? complete heyting algebra 00:59:45 complete heyting algebra? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:00:05 `? locale 01:00:07 Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. 01:00:09 `? frame 01:00:14 A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. However, frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean. 01:00:16 `? pointless topology 01:00:18 Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents. 01:00:28 `? heyting algebra 01:00:30 heyting algebra? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:00:41 `sled wisdom/locale//s/However, f/F/ 01:00:43 wisdom/locale//Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. 01:00:50 oops 01:00:56 I wonder what the idiom in Java is for when a method you're calling throws a checked exception and you don't want to handle it. 01:00:59 `sled wisdom/frame//s/However, f/F/ 01:01:03 wisdom/frame//A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean. 01:01:29 the idiom is try { ... } catch (StrangeException e) {} hth 01:01:50 `? sober space 01:01:52 Sober spaces are the dual of Stoned spaces. Taneb invented them. 01:01:56 `? stone space 01:01:58 Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax. 01:03:19 `? help 01:03:20 Help is on the way. We don't know where the way is, though. You might try `help instead. 01:03:58 I was hoping that that wouldn't exist, because then I could have done: `le/rn help/The wisdom entry for "help" isn't very helpful. 01:04:14 But that's kind of a tired joke, isn't it? 01:04:27 I mean, pretty much the whole joke is that it's self-referential. 01:04:40 But we're used to self-reference in here. We don't need hundreds of jokes about it. 01:06:37 `le/rn complete heyting algebra/A complete Heyting algebra is just a cartesian closed complete lattice. 01:06:39 Learned «complete heyting algebra» 01:06:55 Is that true? 01:08:04 `? lattice 01:08:06 lattice? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 01:22:51 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”). 01:30:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:31:59 -!- deltab has quit (Quit: Changing server). 01:34:00 Someone just made a pact on the internet 01:34:20 If non-US people call common football "soccer" when calling it "football" would make things abiguous 01:34:42 We'll call our American football "handegg" in similarly ambiguous situations 01:35:45 i found something called powdertoy (http://powdertoy.co.uk/) it has had computers made in it, so ima make a brainfuck interpreter 01:37:23 There are computers written in the Powder Toy? 01:37:28 mhm 01:37:42 functional ones, fastest one i have seen is 1hz 01:37:53 -!- deltab has joined. 01:38:17 The synergy computer being the best example (29-bit!) 01:39:15 The synergy computer also comes with a instruction set 01:40:52 actually, make the fastest one i have seen 1.5hz 01:42:02 brainfuck interpreter sounds doable 01:42:31 in 255 instructions? 01:42:37 or in a custom computer 01:42:44 just a string of binary counters or something 01:42:47 custom 01:42:50 ah 01:43:21 here, leme pull up the synergy instruction set and info, you might find it intresting ,and brainfuck is doable+1 :P 01:43:34 http://powdertoy.co.uk/Discussions/Thread/View.html?Thread=19974 01:44:04 the synergy computer has most of its space taken up by a screen, by the way 01:45:51 yes i advise you to build the circuitry from scratch 01:46:07 '' 001111: blows the computer up '' i wonder what happens if i print that twice 01:46:11 ik :P 01:46:21 output will be a little funky 01:46:25 if you print it once the computer blows up 01:46:28 so there won't be a twice 01:47:09 i dont see any TNT, NITR, or any other explosive 01:47:16 there _might_ be a twice 01:49:42 i have no idea how the bit representation in this works 01:49:53 learn TPT's physics 01:50:14 you have 100 or so elements to work with (= 01:51:09 i've played around with tpt for years 01:51:26 username? 01:51:33 i never uploaded anything 01:51:40 oh 01:51:53 i think this encodes words in the spectrum of FILT 01:52:07 which i suspect is not accessible ingame 01:52:32 then why is there read/write FILT ram? filt is changed by temp 01:52:48 check the memory, it's all at 22 degrees 01:52:59 huh, your right 01:53:28 filt has 5-10 modes tho 01:54:03 I always like to create a box filled with water, and put a heat source at the bottom and a cold source at the top. 01:54:09 Do people in countries outside the US refer to black people as "African American"? 01:54:42 tsweet, convection, as far as i know, is not modeled 01:54:46 unless your making rain 01:54:50 Primarily European countries, where referring to most people as "American" would usually get you funny looks 01:55:09 hppavilion[1]: I highly doubt it. 01:55:21 pikhq: I would have too 01:55:54 pikhq: But I was watching a YouTube video today and they mentioned a guy (who I assume was british) correcting someone who called him "African American" on the grounds that he was neither african nor american 01:56:28 yes, people tend to think you're an idiot if you do so 01:57:11 moon_, the self-destruct works by cloning in some explosive btw 01:57:17 ah 01:57:26 SING? 01:57:35 no 01:57:45 Looks like Powder Toy still has that thing where turning water into steam requires no heat. 01:57:57 no.. 01:58:07 water becomes steam at 100C as far as i know 01:58:16 and as much as logic tells me, that should be true 01:58:32 Well, yeah, I mean that thing where heating water from 99C to 101C is as easy as heating it from 97C to 99C. 01:58:39 tswett: you have a tpt account? 01:58:45 Nope. 01:59:12 Also, using "African American" instead of "black" is not a great way of being more "correct" -- essentially nobody has a preference for one over the other. 01:59:12 I do :P 02:01:33 <\oren\> Well seeing as most black people I know aren't American... 02:01:42 i found the explosives Phantom_Hoover , its FIRW 02:01:43 I wonder all of a sudden. 02:01:53 \oren\: I was speaking purely in an American racial context, mind. 02:02:00 etrd is great because it completely fucks things up 02:02:10 i have to agree 02:02:13 How easy would it be to power a power plant using boiling hot water? 02:02:15 all the PLSM! 02:02:21 ... Obviously if you use "African American" to describe someone who is in no way connected to America, you're being pretty dumb. 02:02:27 tsweet 02:02:32 dtec 02:02:39 What's this, now? 02:02:47 DTEC, or detector 02:02:58 <\oren\> In Canada afaict the correct term is always "Black". People aren't offended by "african canadian" but they'll look at you like you're an idiot 02:03:01 I should mention, I'm talking about real life. 02:03:07 oh 02:03:13 *now embarassed* 02:03:32 Nah, my question was ambiguous. 02:03:37 Boiling hot water is, of course, not very useful for powering a steam turbine. 02:03:44 "Black" is slightly preferred over "African American" in informal contexts, and vice versa in formal contexts, but both are considered generally correct and acceptable in the US. 02:04:24 But a few people hypercorrect and use "African American" always, even when incorrect, and come across as idiots. 02:04:41 Phantom_Hoover: i just convinced it to erase its keyboard 02:04:51 totally not idiot proof 02:04:54 (tip: Barack Obama is African American. Mandela is not African American.) 02:04:55 ha 02:05:06 by the way 02:05:18 it is currently strobing due to idiot edition usage 02:05:45 So given a bunch of boiling-hot water, and an endless supply of room-temperature air, how do you heat some of the water so that it boils? 02:06:07 <\oren\> nuclear fusion 02:06:45 ^ 02:07:01 just pull the pump's turn on switch 02:07:15 <\oren\> well I suppose some of the water would then technically no longer qualify as "water" due to nuclear transmutation but still 02:07:20 tswett: Heat pump? 02:07:47 tswett, define 'endless supply' 02:07:55 Though really you can probably do things a lot simpler than that. 02:08:00 Phantom_Hoover: no. 02:08:03 You *have* a nice heat gradiant there. 02:09:43 <\oren\> it's raining!!!! 02:09:51 You could, for instance, just run a Stirling engine with one cylinder in the water and one cylinder in the air. 02:10:31 And not even need steam for it to work. 02:10:39 Right. 02:10:50 <\oren\> @metar RJTT 02:10:51 RJTT 130100Z 02022KT 3800 SHRA BR FEW004 BKN006 BKN008 20/20 Q0998 TEMPO 3000 SHRA BR FEW003 BKN005 RMK 1ST004 5ST006 6ST008 A2948 02:11:22 "Here's an interesting fact: you're not breathing real air. It's too expensive to pump this far down. We just take carbon dioxide out of a room, freshen it up a little, and pump it back in. So you'll be breathing the same room full of air for the rest of your life. I thought that was interesting." 02:11:36 my answer from a while back 02:11:45 *for not from 02:12:56 But that's what astronauts do so it can't be so bad 02:13:50 <\oren\> spaceships tend to stink though 02:13:50 #claustophobia 02:14:54 tswett: And of course if efficiency doesn't matter a thermoelectric generator will do you nicely. 02:16:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:18:23 Ugh 02:18:32 Someone made a video called "Who owns english?" 02:19:07 Do you know the answer of such question? 02:19:52 What question? 02:20:22 Who english? 02:20:48 zzo38: Yes: It's a stupid question because you can't own a language 02:21:03 Well, unless it was invented recently, and even then it's stupid to try to control it 02:21:04 ^ +1 02:21:12 hppavilion[1]: Tell that to Paramount. 02:21:25 I can own a language. 02:21:29 pikhq: *sigh* what did Paramount do? 02:22:01 Sue a fan film for using Klingon. 02:22:34 pikhq: ...seriously? 02:22:48 Friendly advise for anyone with a bit of media with a very highly invested fan base: don't sue them. They *are* your audience. 02:22:51 Seriously. 02:23:17 I agree they should not force to control/own it 02:23:35 I believe languages should be legally exempt from copyright 02:23:35 star trek is dead anyway 02:23:40 tell them not to cling on to the past 02:23:52 One of the amicus briefs is partly in Klingon. 02:23:57 shachaf: ...was that a pun? 02:24:01 shachaf: There's a new series coming which might not suck. 02:24:15 shachaf: Or was it an un-pun? A place where you made it so you could put a pun, but then didn't? 02:26:16 Hm... You can't own a word (you can prevent people from using it to advertise themselves by trademark, but you can't prevent people from ever saying it) 02:26:23 And thus you can't own a vocabulary 02:26:32 And thus you can't own a language 02:30:40 i found a wierd language: https://esolangs.org/wiki/SPAM/1 02:38:53 The behavior of pressure in TPT seems really weird. 02:39:31 it is 02:39:48 try making a container of superheated WARP, and then opening it after a little 02:40:02 in view 2 (Acessed by hitting the 2 key) 02:40:05 I've got a bunch of water that's stuck up in the air thanks to prsesure. 02:40:21 pressure does funny things 02:44:00 I wonder what it's supposed to represent. 02:44:09 Pressure, obviously 02:44:09 TPT lets you have a pressure gradient in an unmoving fluid, which can't happen in real life. 02:44:21 So clearly it's not the pressure of that fluid. 02:44:27 Air pressure 02:44:30 its air pressure 02:44:31 And besides that, areas that are "empty" still have pressure. 02:46:26 I can't tell whether it passes through solids or not. 02:46:47 You can have a chunk of ice with a pressure of -11 in the middle, and it just stays at -11, which makes it seem like pressure can't pass through solids. 02:47:06 TPT pressure is reallllly strange 02:47:20 it DOES pass through any solids (besides TTAN and WALL) 02:47:44 So why does ice maintain pressure like that? 02:47:50 Idk 02:48:12 but pressure goes straight through GOLD and other solids 02:48:48 ill consult the almighty wiki 02:49:14 ICE does not hold pressure 02:50:53 I wonder how long it is until Microsoft puts ads in the title screen of Minecraft 02:51:27 Idk 02:51:32 lets all hope they dont 02:51:45 it would PREVIOUSLY be a good game then 02:51:46 plus 02:51:53 minecraft is in java 02:52:04 ads in MC title screen = Anti-ad md 02:52:08 *mod 02:53:33 moon_: They'd add "Don't remove our ads with a mod" to the ToS 02:54:15 moon_: Because, of course, just because you've legally purchased the software, they can still tell you what you can and cannot do with it even for your own personal use 02:57:00 Oh, look at this. Even empty space can have a pressure gradient. 02:57:34 It's like somehow the ice is sucking up huge amounts of air. 02:58:30 -!- moon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:59:38 Yeah, there's definitely a whole lot of negative pressure being generated here. 03:06:01 Hm... I wonder if a FOSS community could pull off a Minecraft-like game that doesn't turn out terrible and doesn't feel like it's become a cash cow rather than a fun project for the devs 03:10:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:16:47 I think Truecraft aims to be that 04:43:43 Plan to be moddable and modular from the outset 04:45:33 i,i cash-oblivious software 04:47:44 lol 04:49:33 What's this channel's first occurrence of "i,i"? 04:49:52 This channel doesn't exist. 04:50:02 `? #esoteric 04:50:06 #esoteric is the only channel that doesn't exist. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts. 04:50:56 Proposal: it's about 100 m (30 ft) across. Hth. 04:51:13 That would be inaccurate. 04:51:33 Cale: Can you think of any good pointless topology puns for my recent wisdom entries? 04:51:44 How accurate is the wisdom entry for i,i? 04:52:36 The important question is how inaccurate it is. 04:52:51 `? frame 04:52:53 A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean. 04:52:54 `? locale 04:52:56 Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The only locale available in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8. 04:53:04 `? pointless topology 04:53:06 Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents. 04:53:07 `? sober space 04:53:10 Sober spaces are the dual of Stoned spaces. Taneb invented them. 04:53:12 `? stone space 04:53:14 Stone spaces were invented by P. T. Barnum as a hoax. 04:53:18 `? barnum 04:53:20 barnum? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 04:59:08 `? i,i 04:59:10 i,i i,i what is i,i 05:03:47 > iterate (>>= (\c -> case c of 'i' -> "i,i"; ',' -> " is "; 's' -> "ksk"; x -> [x])) "i" 05:03:49 ["i","i,i","i,i is i,i","i,i is i,i i,iksk i,i is i,i","i,i is i,i i,iksk i,... 05:05:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:26:28 That reminds me of that infinite self-spelling sequence... 05:27:23 cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, a, comma, space, es, pee, a, cee, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, ... 05:53:21 is there a better way to generate that sequence without appending to a string? 05:58:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:05:19 I don't know. I think I have seen stuff like that before (and have made up stuff like that before too), but not quite that one. 06:08:29 If I make a puzzle game of the kind that satisfies the following: rules :: Command -> Puzzle -> Either Bool Puzzle; isSolution :: [Command] -> Puzzle -> Bool; isSolution [] _ = False; isSolution (h:t) x = either id (isSolution t) $ rules h x; and the current state of the puzzle is always fully visible to the player. What is this kind of rules called? 06:09:25 (I do not mean to imply that it is necessarily programmed in Haskell, but the notation of Haskell seems useful to describe what I am trying to describe here.) 06:30:35 > let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]; describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) in fix (\xs -> ' ' : describeString xs) -- not quite, but almost 06:30:37 " space, es, pee, a, cee, e, comma, space, e, es, comma, space, pee, e, e, c... 06:32:41 > let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]; describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) in fix (\xs -> describeString ('c' : xs)) -- also not quite 06:32:43 "cee, cee, e, e, comma, space, cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, ... 06:35:52 oh, right... 06:36:13 > let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")]; describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) in map head . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c" 06:36:15 "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ... 06:36:35 there we go :) 06:37:48 izabera: ^^ got it 06:40:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:40:40 tswett: OK, that's weird 06:43:03 "A prison escape or prison break is the act of an inmate leaving prison through unofficial or illegal ways." 06:52:38 Cale: do you mind writing it in a normal language? 06:53:27 "in Singapore caning is permitted for boys only" 06:56:22 Do you know why? 06:59:08 zzo38: Because the people in charge in Singapore are sexist assholes? 06:59:55 do you want to permit caning on girls too? 07:00:12 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 07:00:12 izabera: No, but I'd rather it be both or neither 07:09:06 I just started https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk2SuWwwdMk and now I'm immediately planning to move to Russia 07:09:41 Oh, or any other Nordic country (Norway, Finland, Sweden) 07:10:24 For reasons given by various maps 07:18:17 Hm, the quality of software used tends to go down as the GDP of a nation goes up 07:28:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:35:06 Apparently the reason why the character ROM on CGA has two unused address bits is because the same ROM contains the MDPA patterns, so that both cards can use the same ROM. 07:43:01 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:45:17 zzo38: Was it a mask ROM? 07:45:22 Because that makes me suspect that. 07:56:34 `? implication 07:56:46 implication? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 07:56:50 izabera: What's a normal language? This relies on lazy evaluation... 07:57:09 `learn Implication is a useful rhetorical device, if you know what I mean. 07:57:09 normal as in readable by humans <.< 07:57:12 Learned 'implication': Implication is a useful rhetorical device, if you know what I mean. 07:57:12 I program in Haskell for a living... 07:57:20 clearly not human 07:57:42 I can explain the Haskell if you want 07:57:53 thanks :D 07:58:07 @let describeChar c = maybe "" id . lookup c $ [('c',"cee"),('e',"e"),(',',"comma"),(' ',"space"),('o',"o"),('m',"em"),('a',"a"),('s',"es"),('p',"pee")] 07:58:08 Defined. 07:58:44 So this function just does what it looks like, giving a string that describes the given character, or the empty string if it's not found in the list (though that never happens) 07:58:53 > describeChar ',' 07:58:55 "comma" 07:58:59 ok 07:59:13 @let describeString s = intercalate ", " (map describeChar s) 07:59:14 Defined. 07:59:39 This describes a string by applying that function to each character in it, and then sticking ", " in between each of the things it got, concatenating the results 07:59:49 > describeString "cee" 07:59:50 "cee, e, e" 07:59:57 ok 08:00:19 so this is actually creating the same infinite string 08:00:32 and it's using the same amount of space 08:00:40 > iterate describeString $ "c" 08:00:41 ["c","cee","cee, e, e","cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e","cee, e... 08:01:21 iterate f x = [x, f x, f (f x), ...] 08:01:33 it just applies the function over and over, giving an infinite list of the results 08:02:22 yeah but i was hoping for a solution that didn't require infinite memory 08:02:23 Now we do something quirky and transpose this list of lists, which is actually going to get us a list of infinite strings 08:02:41 > transpose . iterate describeString $ "c" 08:02:42 ["cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc... 08:03:01 The first element of every one of the strings is after all c... 08:03:05 ok 08:03:08 > take 5 . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c" 08:03:09 ["cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc... 08:03:11 oops 08:03:14 OK, how the hell does OEIS choose sequence numbers? 08:03:16 > map (take 5) . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c" 08:03:17 ["ccccc","eeeee","eeeee",",,,,,"," ","eeeee",",,,,,"," ","eeeee",",,... 08:03:25 hppavilion[1]: user submitted 08:03:40 But of course, these infinite strings are lazily constructed, and we're really only interested in the first element of each 08:03:44 izabera: No, as in what the A-code is 08:03:49 > map head . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c" 08:03:51 "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ... 08:04:07 Cale: but you still need unbounded memory x.x 08:04:15 @where pi_10 08:04:15 (!!3)<$>transpose[show$foldr(\k a->2*10^2^n+a*k`div`(2*k+1))0[1..2^n]|n<-[0..]] 08:04:29 Why is Fibonacci A000045? 08:04:43 hppavilion[1]: first come first served 08:04:50 izabera: Ah? 08:04:57 pikhq: I don't know if it is mask ROM or what it is 08:05:25 izabera: Then the first person to add one (A000001) was rather focused on Group Theory 08:05:52 Like, I'd think A000001 would be, I dunno, the empty sequence, or the natural numbers, or something like that 08:05:52 > fix (('c':).drop 1.describeString) 08:05:54 "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ... 08:06:19 * oerjan vaguely assumes that's what Cale started with 08:06:37 > map head . transpose . iterate describeString $ "c" 08:06:38 "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ... 08:07:02 oerjan: now golf pi_10 twh 08:07:14 `? twh 08:07:15 oerjan: ah, haha 08:07:21 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 08:07:28 oerjan: That's the easy one I was looking for initially 08:08:20 (but couldn't quite find it -- in hindsight, that's obviously where the drop 1 needs to go :) 08:08:55 thissbnioaiaaoyuwswai 08:09:15 "that helps in some scenarios but not in others and I am as of yet unsure which scenario we are in" 08:10:41 `? this sentence 08:11:05 How do you generate one of those self-counting sentences I wonder? 08:11:07 izabera: There is probably a way to compute the nth element in O(log n) space... 08:11:07 This sentence was not invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it. 08:11:25 It seems like it would be NP 08:11:27 hppavilion[1]: constraint programming? 08:11:34 oerjan: I guess? 08:11:52 Like, you could make an algorithm that will generate some such sentences, but not one that will generate al 08:11:54 *all 08:12:19 "cannot" is a stupid word 08:12:24 hppavilion[1]: well you can do some math to find bounds on what the counts can be. 08:12:26 "x cannot perform action a" 08:12:34 oerjan: "a dozen" 08:13:11 and then you can do constraint programming to prune it all down. 08:13:12 It means "x is incapable of performing action a", but it feels like it should be read "x is capable of not performing action a" 08:13:30 or one of those SMT solvers which i've never used. 08:13:43 (which i guess is a form of constraint programming) 08:14:44 basically, those solvers can solve essentially all NP problems that aren't _designed_ to hit the hard cases. 08:14:48 afaiu 08:15:44 not sure if they can list all solutions (assuming there's a reasonable number, which i assume is the case with those self-counting things) 08:18:12 izabera: Then the first person to add one (A000001) was rather focused on Group Theory <-- perhaps it was just that sequence that gave em the idea that there needed to be such a site 08:19:00 speaking of groups what's with S_6? 08:19:57 izabera: There is probably a way to compute the nth element in O(log n) space... <-- i think your iterated version might count, with enough garbage collection. 08:20:16 seems unlikely... 08:20:31 Yeah, I don't think it does... 08:21:30 hm... 08:22:11 well, the idea is that you'd really want to generate copies of the sequence in "parallel" 08:22:17 without sharing between them. 08:22:34 so not _exactly_ that version, but something similar. 08:25:13 hmm, yeah 08:25:14 > let fix' f = f (fix' f) in fix' (('c':).drop 1.describeString) 08:25:16 "cee, e, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, e, comma, space, cee, o, em, em, ... 08:25:43 like that, assuming that fix' avoids sharing 08:26:30 i guess that was my version. 08:28:03 or you can do it with a stack. 08:29:22 or wait, you need the depth. 08:33:01 The problem is that the part of the string that you're describing and the part of the string you're constructing get arbitrarily far apart over time 08:34:13 why is S_6 the only symmetric group that has a non-inner automorphism 08:34:28 shachaf: Because shenanigans 08:35:13 Cale: yes, but as long as they're not shared with each other, you only need to keep around a bounded part of each. 08:35:20 and GC should do that. 08:39:57 now if you want it to be logarithmic _time_ as well... then you need some matrix/vector thinking. 08:39:58 shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automorphisms_of_the_symmetric_and_alternating_groups#No_other_outer_automorphisms has a quick explanation 08:41:55 octomorphism 08:42:37 Why are groups so complicated? 08:42:41 shachaf: Basically it comes down to the coincidence that the number of transpositions, i.e. the conjugacy class containing (1,2) in S_6, happens to have the same size as the conjugacy class containing (1,2)(3,4)(5,6) 08:42:42 sesquimorphism 08:42:57 15 elements each 08:44:15 Why are prime decompositions so complicated? It's that problem, only worse. 08:44:32 i fell into the oerjan trap <-- . o O ( sometimes he sets traps without knowing ) 08:44:44 (it's somewhere between a monomorphism and a bimorphism) 08:45:09 oerjan: Obviously an "oerjan trap" is designed to trap oerjans. 08:45:14 ah. 08:45:48 I'm working on expanding https://oeis.org/A121064 08:45:49 `? tanebventions 08:46:05 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, submarine jousting, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, histograms, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex. 08:46:17 You can't put everything Taneb invents into tanebventions. 08:46:19 It won't fit. 08:46:52 shachaf: Perhaps we should divide it into sections? 08:46:59 `? tanebventions[2] 08:47:05 tanebventions[2]? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 08:47:58 shachaf: :( 08:50:00 `` cp 08:50:03 cp: missing file operand \ Try `cp --help' for more information. 08:50:21 `` cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebventions(0) 08:50:23 /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebventions(0)' 08:50:32 hppavilion[1]: stop. 08:50:32 `` cp wisdom/tanebventions wisdom/tanebventions|0 08:50:34 /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: 0: command not found \ cp: cannot stat `wisdom/tanebventions': No such file or directory 08:50:40 oerjan: *fine* 08:50:55 i suggest if we split it, we split out the math ones. 08:51:18