00:00:24 <Taneb> b_jonas, it looks like a g to me
00:00:28 <Taneb> Except sort of smoother?
00:00:44 <Taneb> Like the difference between p and rho
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00:02:28 <tswett> Someone mentioned asiekierka. I've heard that name before.
00:02:43 <Taneb> They used to be in the channel a while back?
00:03:25 <oerjan> asie(kierka) visited briefly a few months ago
00:04:01 <oerjan> but it's not that often he's here
00:04:33 * oerjan wonders if int-e is here, he thinks he found the obvious solution to the a |> mx problem
00:05:39 <oerjan> after using int-e's distributivity idea
00:10:16 <oerjan> @tell int-e I found how to see a |> mx = mx: afaict by the induction in your distributivity proof, you can assume that {a+1, ..., mx} subalgebra has already been proved a shelf, and then the composition chain of (a+1) in that shelf must have power of 2 period.
00:12:03 <oerjan> @tell int-e (and that chain is equal to a |> 1, a |> 2, etc.)
00:13:35 * oerjan suddenly worries if that was spoilery
00:15:44 <oerjan> @tell int-e (modulo indexing. too many conventions being mixed around here...)
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01:32:49 <Moon_> *teases everyone with the work in progress of a text adventure game*
01:32:50 <Moon_> http://postimg.org/image/d0tklsxtd/
01:33:01 <Moon_> i made it while bored :P
01:34:01 <doesthiswork> you should add a space after "processed command was"
01:34:20 <Moon_> Already fixed in next compile (i compile every minute or so to test functions)
01:36:46 <Moon_> i didnt notice that :P
01:38:26 <zzo38> I think my custom Magic: the Gathering card called "Kjugobe's Numerical Hack" is a bit strange idea and probably does not have a lot of uses
01:40:19 <Moon_> Im sadly not programming it in a esolang
01:40:41 <Moon_> i AM planning to use a esolang in it, however
01:41:02 <Moon_> namely, a extended brainfuck
01:43:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: maybe it could be useful (but not very efficient) when you're playing a spell without paying its mana cost
01:43:48 <b_jonas> but even then, I can't think of many applications
01:44:04 <Moon_> b_jonas its esoteric (=
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01:44:51 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes that might be one use (but as you said, not very efficient).
01:46:32 <zzo38> There are also some cards that have multiple X's in their mana cost, or have an additional cost of X life in addition to the X mana.
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01:47:15 <b_jonas> zzo38: you mean like using this in an agressive deck where you have little mana and want to spend the card on it?
01:48:29 <zzo38> It still seems weak but it has uses and yes that is another one. But, you can use this on opponent's spells as well, probably this also won't be so common but maybe it is just what you need in a few unusual circumstances.
01:50:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: maybe if you had infinite (or lots of) mana, and two Isochron Sceptres, one with Disrupting Shoal and one with your card on it
01:50:09 <doesthiswork> sorry Moon_ I just realize I should have reported the bug on you userpage instead of here
01:50:57 <b_jonas> mind you, if you just want to counter every spells and have lots of mana, then there are better ways to do that
01:51:47 <b_jonas> the practical way is Silence, which requires little mana but still lets the opponent cast instants in their upkeep; if you have lots of mana then just use Force Spike
01:52:10 <zzo38> Maybe opponent used a spell to draw X cards, and X is however many cards are left in their library because they know that one of them can be certainly win with, then you can use it to force them to draw one extra card...(of course this seems unlikely)
01:52:14 <b_jonas> s/Disrupting Shoal/Spell Blast/
01:52:51 <b_jonas> Oh, you could use Spell Burst, then you'd only need lots of mana, no Isochron Scepter
01:53:39 <b_jonas> (And, you know, if you have infinite mana and access to multiple specific crazy cards, you could just win instead.)
01:55:17 <zzo38> Yes, if you have the correct cards to win in that situation of course.
01:56:23 <Moon_> doesthiswork, that is for my interpreters
01:56:39 <Moon_> anything on the wiki that i wrote and you found a bug for goes there
01:58:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Moon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47024&oldid=46993 * Moon * (+30)
02:00:44 <b_jonas> Maybe you could use Kjugobe's Numerical Hack defensively from a sideboard against spells like Spell Burst, Desembowel, Molder, Immortal Servitude, Punishment, or even against Forced March to kill your opponent's creatures too
02:01:29 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose there is that doo
02:01:32 <b_jonas> Also, wait, against Spell Blast you can *only* use it defensively, not offensively on your own spell, because that targets (and so does Molder etc)
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02:02:21 <b_jonas> And you can't just make the hack let you choose new targets for the spell, that would be too powerful
02:02:33 <b_jonas> for {U} as the cost that is
02:02:53 <b_jonas> and at {UU} cost the increase X thing would be almost useless
02:02:57 <zzo38> Yes it doesn't change the targets.
02:03:43 <zzo38> So for some spells that target X permanents or whatever, it has a missing target and won't change its effect unless the X does something else too.
02:08:54 <zzo38> I made up some more new cards by now
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02:14:01 <b_jonas> zzo38: not just "won't change the effect", but will also counter those that require a target with mana cost (exactly) X, like Disembowel
02:14:36 <zzo38> Yes, it will do that too, I realized that.
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02:52:21 <doesthiswork> I found that continuous logic works much better when x^2 = x
02:53:46 <doesthiswork> standard definitions are "a and b = a*b" and "not a = 1-a"
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03:47:36 <BlueProtoman> hppavilion[1]: You're working within a system that's inherently biased towards scalars. You are, as usual, marginalizing vectors, matrices, quaternions, and basically every other mathematical structure out there. *You are helping to perpetuate the institutionalized domainism that governs mathematics.*
03:48:40 <hppavilion[1]> BlueProtoman: Um, I'm pretty sure that most mathematical structures (groups, rings, etc.) with * and + require that a(b+c) = ab+ac
03:55:25 <BlueProtoman> hppavilion[1]: Ok, but what if we redefine * and +? In fact, who says we have to even use those oh fuck it even if this were a controversial topic I'm not very good at this.
03:56:56 <BlueProtoman> I guess it's good that I'm not very good at starting drama, huh?
03:58:58 <quintopia> the distributive property is communist. trump says if a term is not a hard-working, tax-paying citizen, it won't get any factors
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05:06:14 <HackEgo> pi is a very round number.
05:06:40 <HackEgo> Piet is a really colorful programming language.
05:07:16 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
05:07:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mklang: not found
05:07:56 <HackEgo> FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure.
05:08:20 <HackEgo> Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
05:09:33 <HackEgo> Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell'
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06:24:17 <shachaf> There's such a thing as an "oplax monoidal functor" and also such a thing as a "Hopf lax monoidal functor". This is great.
06:24:33 <zzo38> What are those things?
06:25:01 <shachaf> An oplax monoidal functor a dual of a lax monoidal functor.
06:26:17 <shachaf> A Hopf lax monoidal functor has to do with Hopf monoids, which I don't know much about. https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/Hopf+monoid
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07:51:51 <hppavilion[1]> Everyone knows the world is a tau-dimensional hypercone
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07:54:51 <Cale> hppavilion[1]: I have a friend who has onset schizophrenia and has been bitten by that particular conspiracy theory
07:55:31 <hppavilion[1]> Cale: I'd say the appropriate social response for such a situation, but I don't know it
08:01:20 <Cale> hppavilion[1]: eh, mostly it means that I'm annoyed with him whenever he gets on that topic :)
08:04:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47025&oldid=46866 * 79.136.173.159 * (+314) /* Nice idea */ new section
08:07:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
08:10:17 <HackEgo> Stanisław Lem was a Polish logician who discovered the law of excluded middle.
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08:40:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47026&oldid=47025 * 79.136.173.159 * (+1214) /* Befunge programs? */
08:43:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47027&oldid=47026 * 79.136.173.159 * (+130) forgot to signature
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08:45:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47028&oldid=47027 * 79.136.173.159 * (+38)
08:58:36 <izabera> how do i find the pid of x if i know $DISPLAY?
09:04:00 <Human_61> haha, all my edits are displayed here
09:04:22 <Human_61> hmm, now i will revise my edits 9 times instead of three
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09:10:29 <Human_61> Looks like many people, but so silent...
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10:22:39 <Taneb> It's Eurovision tonight!
10:22:45 <Taneb> I have an exam in three hours
10:32:55 <myname> people are watching that?
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11:00:51 <Taneb> myname, not yet, I will be later
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11:56:40 <FireFly> Not because it's good, but because it's silly
11:57:34 <fizzie> Everyone watches the Eurovision.
11:57:42 <fizzie> Or so I keep thinking, but apparently that's not true.
11:58:01 * gamemanj is currently watching a screen on which the words "Everyone watches the Eurovision." are visible...
11:58:06 <fizzie> I even watched the semifinals for some reason.
11:58:30 <fizzie> They said they're broadcasting them live for the first time in US and [some other place I forgot].
11:59:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Shard]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47029 * SMA * (+835) new article
11:59:39 <f10d4> I have degree in art history, music literature.
11:59:46 <f10d4> this "popular" music is yid
11:59:54 <f10d4> with rare exceptions.
12:00:04 <f10d4> so know the origin
12:00:28 <f10d4> please do not be offtopik, do not refer to kikkevision
12:02:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SMA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47030&oldid=42715 * SMA * (+36) Shard added
12:02:55 <myname> if i want to hear crappy music, i can always use youtube
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12:16:13 <fizzie> myname: You're quite right -- they stream it live in Youtube.
12:18:33 <fizzie> Anyway, it's a channel tradition to speak about it at this time of the year. http://sprunge.us/OjMR
12:24:44 <gamemanj> Good news: I *think* my BytePusher-program-graph-creator is working. Bad news: The analysis takes way too much time.
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12:29:48 <int-e> . o O ( not now, can't you see I'm busy )
12:31:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Shard]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47031 * 79.136.173.159 * (+111) Created page with "But wait, [[Seed]] is first! --~~~~"
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12:32:56 <gamemanj> ...so what's Shard's binary executable format?
12:34:31 <gamemanj> If it's brainfuck, then it should be easy enough to write a program for it.
12:35:30 <oerjan> Human_61: a common problem on our wiki
12:36:12 <gamemanj> SHA256("b") == "[", assuming there aren't any conflicts I've missed
12:36:58 <oerjan> Human_61: as gamemanj implies, Shard looks much easier than Seed.
12:38:18 <oerjan> Human_61: oh wait, Seed is not the same thing. i'm pretty sure we have a language that is closer to Shard (but still harder) than that.
12:39:07 <Human_61> Yes, but Seed is harder to code in (saw the hello world which prints just h)
12:39:23 <int-e> oerjan: anyway, quick shot before I disappear into the jungle of the city to hunt some food: actually the version I'm working with is the "dual" one from laver.hs, and there the interesting law that depends on powers of 2 becomes a |> 0 = 0.
12:39:26 <oerjan> oh ShaFuck. although that's actually been broken.
12:40:21 <oerjan> int-e: well i can't keep up to your indexing, but i just wanted to know if you agree with my suggestion for completing the proof.
12:40:32 <gamemanj> oerjan: well, in general, if you can convince the interpreter to ignore all but one byte in most situations, then it gets easier
12:40:57 <f10d4> I proved turing-completeness of some ancient languages
12:41:02 <f10d4> and shell environments
12:41:07 <oerjan> f10d4: you already said so
12:41:21 <f10d4> will be presented at the end of July
12:41:21 <oerjan> well maybe not the second part.
12:41:40 <int-e> oerjan: yes that's basically how I think about it.
12:41:45 <fizzie> gamemanj: ShaFuck doesn't allow for comments.
12:42:05 <gamemanj> fizzie: ah, that could complicate things a little
12:42:17 <fizzie> Per the spec, anyway. It was "broken" in the sense that the interpreter had a vulnerability. It's all there on http://esolangs.org/wiki/ShaFuck
12:43:54 <int-e> oerjan: the main reason that I like the dual version is that all tables are initial squares of the same infinite table, without any manipulation of top bits.
12:44:24 <oerjan> int-e: also, the only spot that needs thinking about bit is when proving laver tables that are shelfs must have length 2^n.
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12:47:09 <oerjan> int-e: oh right. however, i think you still need the smaller tables up until the point you've proved that x |> 0 = 0 in all of them.
12:48:13 <oerjan> or well, that they coincide.
12:50:43 <oerjan> fizzie: the icons in the editing menu on the wiki have disappeared. i have to look at the hovertext to find where to click :/
12:51:35 <oerjan> admittedly, i _could_ finally memorize the markup for signing, but still...
12:53:37 <fizzie> oerjan: Is this a recent thing?
12:53:54 <fizzie> Hm. They're gone for me as well.
12:53:59 <oerjan> well i just discovered it this week i think, but admittedly i haven't been editing much...
12:54:19 <fizzie> It's been a while since I last upgraded, but that did break some things.
12:54:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Shard]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47032&oldid=47031 * Oerjan * (+108) Or [[ShaFuck]]
12:54:35 <fizzie> (They had moved things around, and the short-link rewrite rules didn't cover everything they needed.)
12:54:50 <oerjan> i may have seen it before and ignored it...
12:55:18 <fizzie> Yeah, https://esolangs.org/w/extensions/WikiEditor/modules/images/toolbar/button-sprite.svg gives a 404.
12:55:28 <oerjan> also, i haven't written on talk pages, which is the only time i need it.
13:01:20 <fizzie> Huh, we're actually still up to date. There's been no new MediaWiki releases since 2015-12-21.
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13:05:12 <oerjan> @tell doesthiswork <doesthiswork> I found that continuous logic works much better when x^2 = x <-- indeed, that's called a "boolean ring" for essentially that reason.
13:15:15 <oerjan> <Human_61> hmm, now i will revise my edits 9 times instead of three <-- i recommend preview hth
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13:31:25 <HackEgo> pi is a very round number.
13:32:39 <oerjan> `learn Help is on the way. We don't know where the way is, though. You might try `help instead.
13:32:44 <HackEgo> Learned 'help': Help is on the way. We don't know where the way is, though. You might try `help instead.
13:39:58 <gamemanj> At thw end of infinity, every word with a capitalized first letter will be a reference to something.
13:41:06 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
13:43:51 <gamemanj> and now for your regularly scheduled subliminal messaging. -- --- .-. ... . / .. ... / - .... . / ..-. ..- - ..- .-. .
13:52:49 <oerjan> stupid thing doesn't actually use unicode :(
13:54:55 <oerjan> and this other site that claims to use unicode doesn't work either :(
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14:02:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: <command>: not found
14:02:41 -!- netmind has left.
14:03:19 <oerjan> `mkx bin/<command>//echo Stop taking everything literally!
14:03:30 <HackEgo> Stop taking everything literally!
14:03:35 <xfix> Eh, I guess I should use run to have a syntax error.
14:03:36 <xfix> `run <command>
14:03:37 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `newline' \ bash: -c: line 0: `<command>'
14:03:49 <oerjan> i can't help with that one, alas
14:04:13 <xfix> `run echo $PATH
14:04:14 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
14:04:30 <xfix> `ls /hackenv/bin
14:04:32 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ bin \ b
14:04:36 <oerjan> the /opt/ghc/bin hasn't been there in a while...
14:04:56 <xfix> I know the next command will fail, but just curious...
14:05:00 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ghci: not found
14:05:06 <oerjan> that's what i told you.
14:05:32 <oerjan> that one takes ages to time out
14:05:44 <xfix> `run cat <<< hi
14:05:54 <oerjan> because it's reading from some open stream that never writes anything, i think
14:06:06 <oerjan> (there should have been a </dev/null there, maybe)
14:06:21 <HackEgo> USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 13:06 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:06 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 13:06 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 0 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?
14:06:26 <xfix> `ps aux > processes
14:06:26 <HackEgo> error: unsupported option (BSD syntax) \ \ Usage: \ ps [options] \ \ Try 'ps --help <simple|list|output|threads|misc|all>' \ or 'ps --help <s|l|o|t|m|a>' \ for additional help text. \ \ For more details see ps(1).
14:06:29 <xfix> `run ps aux > processes
14:06:41 <oerjan> other than that, HackEgo seems unusually speedy at the moment.
14:07:11 <oerjan> (i just had to go and ruin that, didn't i)
14:07:25 <HackEgo> resethaxcoin sysicacoin liquishachcoin haincoin aalcoin parnalcoin flasscoin exconfortecoin silcoin backmannellengroflcoin kvicecoin yardinecoin scabrcoin madscoin fraecursoncoin magnantstracoin carucoin braiself-modcoin latlcoin selfcoin
14:07:32 <gamemanj> `system-add-module go-faster-stripes
14:07:34 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: system-add-module: not found
14:08:50 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pacman: not found
14:09:30 <gamemanj> `mkx bin/pacman//echo Error: Could not install package, system is actually a cat.
14:10:36 <gamemanj> (...presumably there's some obvious joke about the name "pacman" I could've used, but meh)
14:11:39 <fizzie> The most obvious joke would've been to just echo "Chomp, chomp, chomp!" or some-such.
14:12:54 <gamemanj> Chomping packages... systemd [1/8] nautilus [2/8] networkmanager [3/8] ERROR: Could not connect to network.
14:13:31 <gamemanj> (where "systemd" and "nautilus" can be any package name and "networkmanager" can be anything someone would consider critical to networking.)
14:14:29 <HackEgo> File: `-' \ Size: 0 Blocks: 0 IO Block: 4096 character special file \ Device: 1h/1dInode: 205 Links: 1 Device type: 4,1 \ Access: (0644/crw-r--r--) Uid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) Gid: ( 0/ UNKNOWN) \ Access: 2016-05-14 13:14:26.804271000 +0000 \ Modify: 2016-05-14 13:14:26.804271000 +0000 \ Change: 2016-05-14 13
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14:47:07 <HackEgo> Usage:coin wordscoin [-dhNo]coin [DATASETS...]coin [NUMBER_OF_WORDS]coin \ coin \ options:coin \ coin coin -l,coin --listcoin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin listcoin validcoin datasetscoin \ coin coin -d,coin --debugcoin coin
14:47:20 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cpoms: not found
14:47:51 <HackEgo> comcoin tauncoptcoin dodedinworkcoin woodcoin lieusicicoin schcoin nccidcoin auntercoin vardecoin capuarecoin numpcoin sorragsallcoin xenamentropylierdotypherstacktranchcoin kolmensidecoin excelacoin chatcoin sableqcoin ihoutcoin crailbrcoin bytolcoin
14:48:08 <ybden> :D: are these random
14:48:24 <fizzie> Yeah, it's a character n-gram thing.
14:48:57 <fizzie> Trained on various things you can choose from, but the default for coins is an equal mixture of esolang names (from the wiki) and English words.
14:49:27 <HackEgo> edaretacoin (L-T:coin 3)coin
14:49:45 <fizzie> And the actual command is `words, `coins just adds the 'coin' suffix and the colors.
14:49:45 <ybden> hmm, does --help choose a options dataset?
14:49:52 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
14:50:04 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
14:50:22 <HackEgo> Usage:coin wordscoin [-dhNo]coin [DATASETS...]coin [NUMBER_OF_WORDS]coin \ coin \ options:coin \ coin coin -l,coin --listcoin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin coin listcoin validcoin datasetscoin \ coin coin -d,coin --debugcoin coin
14:50:38 <fizzie> I still can't not laugh at the coinified help.
14:51:01 <HackEgo> convertenucoin (L-T:coin 3)coin
14:51:24 <HackEgo> Argument "doom" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 148. \ coin
14:51:33 <fizzie> I think the debug output is just the "(L-T: 3)" part, which has something to do with the word length thing.
14:52:17 <boily> how come "doom" ain't numeric? of course it's a number! it's the one that comes before infinity hth
14:53:31 <fizzie> Synthesizing from a n-gram isn't a particularly good way to get a realistic distribution of word lengths, so it does some sort of an ad-hoc tweak, I forget exactly what.
14:58:57 <Taneb> First exam complete
15:01:10 <fizzie> Something like having a target length sampled from a Gaussian, and then tweaking the end-of-word probabilities to bias towards that. Or something.
15:01:54 <boily> Tanelle! how many left?
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15:07:06 <xfix> `len Hello, world.
15:07:37 <xfix> Yay, I managed to upload a binary :).
15:10:11 <xfix> `len ¯\(°_o)/¯
15:10:15 <HackEgo> 10 codepoints \ 15 UTF-8 bytes
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15:11:38 <boily> xfix: I only count 9 codepoints?
15:11:45 <gamemanj> in theory, BytePusher programs are FSMs.
15:12:14 <gamemanj> in practice, "finite" is still very big. http://hastebin.com/raw/icizenavod
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15:13:13 <xfix> Hm, that's interesting...
15:13:29 <gamemanj> ah, forgot to explain the syntax of the analysis results
15:13:45 <xfix> U+00B0 and U+200B.
15:13:57 <xfix> Why does that string have U+200B in it anyway?
15:14:20 <oerjan> xfix: it's there to avoid triggering a script
15:14:36 <oerjan> however, the guy with the script left long ago...
15:14:56 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
15:14:58 <zzo38> A simple way to count the number of UTF-8 characters in a string is to count the number of bytes that are not in range 0x80 to 0xBF (if using the extension for arbitrary large numbers, then also omit 0xFF bytes from the total)
15:15:11 <oerjan> but he's no longer using the script :(
15:15:21 <boily> myndzi doesn't react to celebrations anymore? :(
15:15:38 <zzo38> (Actually the extension for arbitrary large number is a bit more complicated than that I think?)
15:15:39 <boily> *soulful mapole whistle*
15:15:43 <xfix> Sure enough, that would work.
15:15:52 <gamemanj> why exactly do the celebrations have people looking not exactly happy
15:15:53 <xfix> The program checks UTF-8 validity for no real reason however.
15:15:55 <oerjan> *sound of galloping meese*
15:16:04 <xfix> I don't know how to trick my IRC client into outputting invalid Unicode however.
15:16:49 <zzo38> My IRC client cannot send any non-ASCII characters although it is capable of receiving them.
15:16:59 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 2 Java characters \ 4 UTF-8 bytes
15:17:19 <gamemanj> (Hmm. Was it Ode To Joy? IDK.)
15:17:32 <HackEgo> U+1F60A SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES \ UTF-8: f0 9f 98 8a UTF-16BE: d83dde0a Decimal: 😊 \ 😊 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
15:17:38 <boily> tumbling down tumbling down tumbling down ♪
15:18:00 <xfix> I wanted to make fun of Java, I do admit...
15:18:08 <zzo38> Does "Java characters" mean how many characters when converted to UTF-16?
15:18:18 <gamemanj> TBH, both C# and Java have one common problem...
15:18:31 <oerjan> gamemanj: because they're missing parts, presumably.
15:18:43 <gamemanj> Which means that operations on strings...
15:18:56 <gamemanj> are just about as useful as they are in UTF-8: I.e. NOT AT ALL
15:19:11 <zzo38> I think they are useful.
15:19:17 <zzo38> It depends on what you are doing of course
15:19:42 <gamemanj> zzo38: Well, presumably they don't intend anyone to ever have to implement a "backspace" or "delete character" button in C# or Java
15:20:21 <xfix> To be fair, even if you implement it over codepoints, it's still not really useful.
15:20:22 <zzo38> gamemanj: Actually, it is easy both with UTF-16 and UTF-8, although a string could be non-Unicode
15:20:26 <HackEgo> 1 grapheme \ 2 codepoints \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
15:20:37 <xfix> 2 codepoints, but one visible character.
15:20:49 <zzo38> Unicode is full of stupid I think
15:20:57 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 2 UTF-8 bytes
15:21:20 <zzo38> JavaScript also uses 16-bit characters in a string, and there are separate functions for treating the characters as raw 16-bit values or as UTF-16 values.
15:21:21 <boily> Unicode: It's Perfect, and so is Han Unification.
15:21:33 <gamemanj> Thing is, it's not even a matter of "visible character". Visuals are the font renderer's job, and you kind of need combining chars to keep the codepoint count sane...
15:21:34 <HackEgo> Unicode is a mess invented in 1988 by Xerox, Microsoft, the Spanish Inquisition, and the evil Human Supremacy Corporation, in order to make it easier for the government to spy on Chinese people.
15:22:10 <gamemanj> It's a matter of how the font renderer is going to even know what codepoints those are...
15:22:40 <zzo38> gamemanj: It should be specified in the font metric file.
15:22:58 <gamemanj> zzo38: Yes, but if everything's specified in Unicode Codepoints,
15:23:02 <gamemanj> and the text input is in UTF-16,
15:23:13 <xfix> `len 🌴 🐪🐫🐪🐫🐪 🌞 𝕲𝖔 𝕿𝖍𝖔𝖚 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝕯𝖔 𝕷𝖎𝖐𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖘𝖊 🌞 🐪🐫🐪 🐁
15:23:14 <HackEgo> 46 codepoints \ 77 Java characters \ 139 UTF-8 bytes
15:23:15 <gamemanj> then the font renderer or text field implementation or whatever has to handle text decoding -
15:23:29 <gamemanj> which should be the job of <insert framework library here>,
15:23:32 <xfix> I'm surprised this Stack Overflow post doesn't use graphemes...
15:23:35 <gamemanj> not something the user should have to do.
15:23:48 <zzo38> It could easily convert UTF-16 to codepoint numbers, although it would also be possible for the font metric file to include that too
15:24:03 <gamemanj> The font metric file probably shouldn't include it
15:24:31 <gamemanj> because that's not the font metric file's job. The font metric file's supposed to handle the unicode combining char mess.
15:24:31 <xfix> `len NΘ stop the an*̶͑̾̾̅ͫ͏̙̤g͇̫͛͆̾ͫ̑͆l͖͉̗̩̳̟̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e not rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘̱ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚N̐Y̡ H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ
15:24:34 <HackEgo> 69 graphemes \ 224 codepoints \ 392 UTF-8 bytes
15:25:08 <Taneb> I'm making a list of things to do once my exams are over (after next Friday
15:25:15 <gamemanj> xfix:"No stop the animes are not real, zalgo is tiny thepo new york?"
15:25:31 <gamemanj> xfix:That's my best understanding of it
15:26:29 <gamemanj> zzo38: You could say it's easy to convert UTF-8 to Unicode codepoints, but if they're extending their definition of char to be 16-bit, why stop at 16-bit?
15:26:32 <boily> and animes are real hth
15:26:42 <oerjan> *he comes, really do you not know our lord and destroyer zalgo?
15:27:18 <xfix> Well, grapheme cluster detection seems to work, so here is that.
15:27:26 <ybden> hmm, that used up a lot of bytes
15:27:32 <gamemanj> nope, never heard of this "zalgo"
15:27:52 <zzo38> Yes I agree it isn't really the job of the font metric file, although it would be possible for example if it is a font format and program for non-Unicode 16-bit characters but the font is a Unicode font. (My "X 12" specification deals with Unicode in exactly this way, although the client that loads the font has to explicitly enable ligatures if it is to use this feature, and the server is not required to support it anyways.)
15:28:42 <moon__> T̢̯̭o̭͡ ̨͙͉̟̲͓̬̟i̢n͓̮͈̗͜v̵̦o̗k̞̮̟͠e̱̻̼̳̭͙̬ ̩̳̠t͇̜̖̲͉̱̘h̗̥̫̹͓e͈̱̱͇ ̥h̻͜ͅi̹̬v҉͚͖̮̻͉̰ͅe̸͉ͅ-̥͍̯̬̖̯m͞i̥̪͝n҉̻̘̞̻̳d͙͇͎̗̟̖ ̰͔̣͈r͚͍͜e͘p͕̞ŗ̦̫͉̥̙̲ͅḛ͙̟̺̤̻͝s̯̣͎͈͖̺͘e̜̥̭̟̻̙͔͞n͓t̰i̩ṉ͕͉̼̭͍̜g̸̬ ̡c̸̞̰̩̼h̴̼a̗̜̥͍̩̖o͔̳̹̱̱͈̦s̪̤̕.̸͖̘
15:28:42 <moon__> ͕̲̹̠͙I̛͚̯͎n͎̼͚̻̞v͖̹̙̝̩o̢̻͎͙k͙͉̩i̱n̵̫g͉̠̦̬̺̩̹͡ ͔͕̯͓͖t̷̜̦ͅh҉͖̰e̱̙͍ ̺͎̬̺͘f̮̤̰͉e̥̞̞̣̰͈͠e҉̻ͅl̹̙̣̬͙̰i̲n̠͔̗g̵̻̰ ̲̬̪̗͎͓o̟̝̳f̼̘͜ ̹̻̻͔̣̲̻c̱̫̟̘̲͕h̹͙̲a̯̪͉͔̥o̭̲̼̰̟̤̕s.̤̞
15:28:42 <moon__> ̞̹̜̭̺W̵̲̠i͎͇̻͓̫͍t͓̗̲̟̬̗h̜͞ ͉̞̯͕͇o̱̟̫̖ͅut ̤̲̣͙͕̲ͅor͖̮̫̤͍͘d̻͚̜͇͇̳͠e̬̙̦͚̺r̻.
15:28:42 <moon__> ̹̥̻̭T̖͓̣̫h͚̰͞e̱̩̦͎ͅ ̨͚̤̞N͔͘e̶̻̗͔̠̦z͍̮̰͉pe̦̼͇̮͠r̲̣̗͞d͕i̮̳̳͢a̼̬̳n͖̥͡ ͚͚̭́h̷͎͎̳͇iv̶̫͖̫̟̠̭e̟̳̹-̗̺m̵i͙͈̳̤̝ͅn͕͙̜͙͟d̜̘ ̡̤̯̭̪͖̮o̩͖̳̳ͅf͓̼̮̮ ͎c͘ḩ̮a̸̜ͅo̹͇̯͈͞s̟͔̜̪.̩̠̜͉̞̩ ̢͚͇̤Z̫̯̮̝̖a͙̱͓͡l̥̱̠̩̭̻͟g̭̯̣̤̰̼o̝̭̻͔̩͖̲͝.̗̪̺̲͙̱̕
15:28:42 <moon__> ̵̳͍̝͙H̶͈̫̯e̪̱̻̕ ̛̱͕̯͔w͔̦̩̲͈̝ͅh͏̳̲̱o̠̤͍̦͘ ̳͖̹͎̖̳͠W͝a̝̭̺̝̺̟͉i͓̫̜̳͓̼̫t͓͙̘̻͚͜ͅs͉ ̧B̫̭è̝̝h͚̞̘̭̩i̯̦̩̝̮̦̼n͚͕̕d̥͓͙͓̘͢ ̟͚T͎̰͓̫͢h̲̩̯̦̭͠e̙͇̭̳̺ͅ ̞͙̠W̴̮͙a̡̲͉̖̪̮̜ll̶͇̮̻.̢̲̜͉̠͚̘
15:28:43 <moon__> ͏͍͉͉̞Z̠A̗̩̜͍͙͠L͉͕̠̖G̸̞̟͕̱͎O̻̺!̪͓͈͎
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15:29:07 <zzo38> gamemanj: Of course you don't have to stop and 16-bits. An implementation I wrote supports 36-bit codepoints when converting from/to UTF-8.
15:29:10 <moon__> *Reacts gamemanj with tht*
15:29:23 <zzo38> gamemanj: It is meant to be the successor of X 11
15:29:48 <gamemanj> moon__: Fine, you want to go ahead and confuse me? Fine. then i // shall confuse you
15:30:01 <moon__> T͆̈́ͮ̌҉͔̯̞͚̲̗͈̼̕͝ỏ̫̟͖̱̪͔̻̥͕̙͈ͬ͌̀̀̚̕͢ ̒ͧͮͬͥ͂ͣ͑ͬ͗̂̎̓҉̸̢̦̯̲̳͞ͅi͙͚͎͙͖͐̉̐͆ͯ͢͡͠n̷͔͖̰͖̰̝̹̪̗̖͔̺̤͖̽̈̍̆͗̑̽͑͆̒̽͊͊̅ͥ̔̚͠v̡͙͇̻͍̼̩̮͎͈̝̘̬̻̭̖̈́͗ͫ̄ͭ̓͌͌ͯ̏ͫͮ͐̑̀͠o̧ͪ̏ͤ̀̈̔̐̿ͯ͂ͨ́͞҉͙̰̲͚̥̭̗͍̘̭͔̯k̶͆͆ͬͫ̃ͤͦ͗̓ͧ͡͏͍̫̞̼͍̠͇̙͖̺̝̦̼̘͜͞ͅë́̒
15:30:01 <moon__> ̷͔̥̟͈̳̝̫̜̺̹͒ͦ͒̊̑ͨ̒͋̈́̄́͘͜͡ ̢̛̬̻̱̹̻̯̪̊̔ͥ̑̽͂̀͠͠t̙̩̤͉̘̻͙̗̟͎͈̯͙͐̎͗ͩ̋̓ͪ̉͂̓ͯ̂͢h̃̊ͥ̄̄̅̾ͥ̏ͭ҉̭̣̩̮̝̦́̕͞e̡̺̦̠̦̩̖̅͐͒̾̎̐͌ͥͮ̒͋ͩ͑͛͒̔̆́̚̚͟͟ ̷̸̜̠̩̜̥̭̟̍͒̏̍ͤ͆͑ͥ͟͞͞ȟ̡̩̺̩͔̦̖̀̂̊ͯ̊̈ị͚̣̪̲̥̖͈̼̪̗̓̈̅̎̒̈́̑̐͐͗͐͠v̛̰̭̟̪̹̌ͪ̂̈́̽ͥͤ̔ͮ͠͞ͅ
15:30:01 <moon__> è̴̴̷̺͎̺̖͇̻̻͇͙̳̪͓̬͇͇̹̮̯̮ͯ̈́ͩͥ́̚-̷̷͖̖̮͈̞̪͚͔͍̯̠̼̠̮͙̾̔̍͌ͧ͡m̨̙̖̩̺̭̲̥̩͔̱̞̣̠̉̎ͤ͌̋͌̄ͬ͐ͪ͋͊ͦ̔͋̚͢͠͡į͒̇̑͑̊͊ͣͬ͐ͭ͋͏̧̘̰̼̯̮̲͖͟n̴̪͚̞̣̙̫̜̖̖̪̭̋ͧͫ͌̐̃̾̄̍ͨ͆ͧ̂̋̊ͥͬ͛͌͝͠d̵̴̸͍̖̗͈̗̯͈͎͈͔͕̲̐̒̈ͬ̽̀̋̀͞ ͗͊̒ͨ̍̍̈́̂̉҉̸̞͎͚̞͎̫̱̹͇̯̭͞r͒͌͛͌͑͠҉̣
15:30:01 <moon__> ͚͎͙͚̭e̠͕̳͈̱̬̽̍ͩ̑ͩ͆̃̀̕͟p̨͉̲̖͇̊ͨ̽ͩ̐͑ͯͦ̀͠͡r̴̷͔̱̹̪̺͓̲̠̙̼̱͇ͣ̒̉̔͐͂ͯ̐ͧͫ͌ͯ͋̌͟͝e̴̴̻̤͇͍͕͖̳̮͎̣̟ͬͭͨ̒͗ͮ̂͛̈̋ͦ̋̎̀́s͋͐ͤ̐̈́̿ͣ̒̐̿̉ͥ͏͖̤͖͔̫͙͔̻͈̖͙͕̜̱̜͟ͅẹ̸̛̥̦̟̳̟̗̺͖̳̥͚̜̟̮̳̱̥ͦͪ̄ͭ̈͑̐͂̏̀́n͒͗ͫ̂ͣͮ̈́͌̃ͭ̈̉ͯ͛̄ͨ̔̊ͮ́҉̲̙̹͎̗͔̣̙̦̭̪̘̖t̔ͩ͂̈ͮ̚
15:30:01 <moon__> ͒͐̓ͦͤ̐̾͐̚͢҉̶̺͇̬̹̻͇̗͖͎̗̯͓͙̹̻̠͉͢ͅi͍̲̝͕̠̹͈͈̪̠̖̮̜ͨ̾ͧ̐̐͛ͣ͂̈͒ͫ̚̕͟͞ṇ̢̢̫͖̼̦͓̤̬̱̱͂ͫ̑̀́ͣ̎̅̊ͫ̏͆̃̇̈́͛ͧ̀ģ͙͎̯̲̟̥̯̞̝̙̫̹̤̭͖̬̙̍ͨ̇̌̀͐̾̿ͫ ̷͔̻̹͉̗͉̀̒̄͑̽̾͌̾̑͊́̍̃̃ͪ́́ͅċ̨̾ͫ̃̽ͬ̊̌ͤ̂̆̂͗͌ͭ̀͊̚͘͏͕̫̮̭̱̙͇͙̩̦̙͕̠ḩ̢͐͑ͭ̄̊̔͑́ͣ͗̒ͫ͛̒ͪͯ́̚
15:30:01 <moon__> ͔͎͔̗̫̮͓̱̺̯̭̻a̢̡̤̖͎͍̞̪͋͒̏́ͥ̎̽ͬ͘̕o̵͙̦̺͙̮̗͚̪̟̪̻̥̬ͯͭ́̌̇ͩ͐̓ͯ̈̚͞s̢̛̬̪̩̜̮̬̬̺̺̼͕̬̯̠̮̫̾̔ͤ̓̓̀ͤ͒̒̓͐̿́͜͝.̢̠̭̖͕̪͍̬͔̥̯͉̬̫̞̝̩̭̪̉͗ͤ͂̽ͨͯ̑̐ͮ͌ͦ̚͡
15:30:02 <moon__> ̸̛̩͍͚͉͖̰̘͙̮̻͉̺̗̯̙̰̈́͊͋̓̐̚͘̕ͅI̓ͣ͑̅ͤ́̓ͮ̑҉̠̠͎̜̟̘̩͎̲̩͜ň̦͙̬͓̗̘̗̗̭͉̠̪ͣ̉̆̓ͯ̃͐̎̒̆͗̇̓̅̊̂͋̕͘̕͠v̢̹̹͓̼̱͔͚̭͓̮̲͍̖̬̣̄͊͒́̅͐̓ͮ͋ͥͮ̇̃͋ͨ́ͅǫ̣̺̮̣̹͙̮̣̞͈͈̉̍ͧ̒̆͗̓ͨ͛͋̐̆͛͜kͭͥͬ̎ͤ̀́͊̀̇̆̏͊҉̧̝̩̬̹̯̦̻͎̣̗͈͉̜͜͠ͅi̡̋̉̐̃́͑͆̔́ͬͦ͆҉̵҉̻̲̭̦̰̼̜͡
15:30:02 <moon__> ͓̰͈͙̺̝̳͓n͕̱̯̫͙͓̫͇̪͋͊͗̈́̄ͥ͗͛͒̿͑ͮ͋͟g̵͓͙̣̥̪̞͙͖͕̝̼̱̅͛ͧ̆ͩ̑̃̓͐̂͒̆̑ͭ̽͛̀̀͜ ̢̡̞̳̥̻̺̹͙̰̘̖͉̫͈̳̣͚̙͈̝̃ͯ̍̔̕͜t̨̪̖̳̖͚̱̗̘̦̫̳̏̋̏ͨͨh̠̘̲̙͕̘̩̮̞̿̃ͬͣ̈̓̈̈́̄͘͡ȩ̴͚͇̱̯͍̒ͯͣ̑̆̇̍͛͑̌͆̚͜͞ ͈̪̥͕̦͈͉̦͉͙̬̟̺̓͊ͭ̅̀̈́̌̽͂̄̔̄͐̈ͦ̀͠͡ͅf̵̑̉͆̓͋ͬ͐̉͆҉̷̸̩͎̤̜̠̺̘̱͝
15:30:03 <moon__> ͚͕̰̰͖̪͙ę̶̶̖̜͉̬̘̬̞̱͓̳̘͖̗̬̣̦̀̈͂ͭ͌̊̔̽e̶͂ͮ̅͛͗ͭ̽͗̇́̃̽̑̃̚͏̱͍͈̥̀l̛̛͙͓̘̗̲͍̺̹̣̝͊ͦ͗̈̂̌ͭͦͥ̓̂̀̌̉̈́̆̔́͂͜͜i̵̵̧͖̞̤̱̺̜̭ͣ̅̐̂̓̂̐ͣ̾̚͟n̶ͪ̍ͭͪ͋ͧ͂͋̽̅͆ͦ͗͌͏̻͚̳͖͍̻̻͉̫͎g̡̫̜̫̮̳̦͕͔͉͎ͪ̿̈͌ͭ̅̃ͫ͒̊̃ͦ̊ͪ̆̂͠ͅ ̷̜̙̤̼͂̆̿̄̇̃̾̽̑̑̉̾͆̍͊͗͘ô̴̠̅̈́ͩ̾͒̃ͤͮ̈ͨ̓
15:30:03 <moon__> ͕̤̘̖̣̬̣̖̦̞̯̣͍̜̠̼f̷̧̣̩ͨ̌ͥͧͯ͒́̋͗͛̽̍̉ͤ͟͠͞ͅ ̨̨̊̓ͮ͌̈ͥ́̐̀̒͐ͮͪ͊̽̏̀ͬ̍͏̵̡̠̫̲͚͚̱͕̺̟̦͓̳c̷̗̻̱̦̩ͨ̽ͯ͌̑̽̅̊̌̅̕͠͡h̵̨͇͍͈̻̯͚̙̗̜͑ͭ̈́ͧ̋ͭͬ̉ͫ͆ͭ̚͢͝å͛͒ͬͨ̉̀͒͌ͣ͑̈́͘͏̘͈̥̟̦̝ơ̢̦̬̤̪̙̘̪̥̤͔̞͔̩̹̘͎͈͂ͭͩͦ̅̉ͫ̂ͧ͗ͭ̎͋̌ͬ͟͡͠s̴̴̛ͬ͗̋̓ͭͦ̿̅ͦ̏̀ͫ̊̒ͯ͊͑̈ͪ́
15:30:04 <moon__> ͖̙̙̠͈͞.̛ͩ̉ͧ͑͊̒̕͠҉̺̪̦̘̩
15:30:04 <moon__> ̧̨̨̙̟̞̯͔͓̤̞͙̗̹̞̱̝̭̗̽̾́ͯ̑ͥͩͭͦ̃̀͢W̵̵̢̼͉͍̝̽̂̾̅̈́̈̚͘ȋͩͪ̆͋ͣ̊ͤ̒̋̋̚͜͢͏̝̹͕͍̞͕̙͕͇̦͔̠̦ṯ̡̘͖̮̖̬͎̗ͦͧͮ̽͗͂ͩ̉̈̓ͭ̚͘͢ḥ̷̣̲̬̖̟̤̣͙̟͖̟̙̝̝̭̝̭̣̈̃̈͌͒͋̋ͦͫ͆̏̍́́͘ ̽ͣ͌ͦ̉͊ͣ̅͆ͬ̽͑҉̶̪̜͙̣̯̮̰̰̥ͅo̅̀ͩ͊̽̅͛̌ͧ̔͑ͮ̄͑̾͟͟͠͏͚͙̣̹̹̖͙̺̦̞̹̘̺u͛͂͐ͣ̐͏̧
15:30:05 <moon__> ͔̗̘͔͔̝̼̘ť̂̐͗̋҉̸̧͇̻͓̝̙̣̫̗͇̩̝̠̲̀͘ͅͅ ͚͚͙̖̦̟̭̞̉́̎̇̂̌͑ͣ̀́͢o̷̧̺̬̠̝͕͙̙̲̰̼͚͔̺̫̣̻̽ͤͬ͗̑ͪͫrͦ̇͛ͧ̓͋̽̐ͪͣͤ̓ͭͨͩ̓҉̷̢͎͕̣̪͕͔̣̮̜͈͈̫̤̤̰͜͜ͅd̵̡̼̠̪̠͌͊̑̏ͬͥ͑ͬ̿ͨ̉̀ͮ̀̀̚̕ę͍͍̦̬̼͊̆̃̍͘͟͟͜r͕̲̖̫͕̪̫̪̗͖̼͕̠͑̈́ͥͪ̆ͦ͂̿̋͛̿͆͋̅̅̉̕͘͠.͆ͩ̎ͭ͂̎̊ͫ́̔̒̎͂
15:30:06 <moon__> ͨͭ̿̐ͩ̃̇ͫͨ̃̈́͆͆͛̉ͬ̆҉҉̨̞̲͕̮͖̗͙͟͡T̸̛͚̘͎̱̠͓̼͍̠̠͚̅̍̇͂̄̆̄͊̅̒̋̍͟͝h̷̛̛̫̼̗͙̉ͧͥ̉ͪ̋̿ͮ̃̎ͪͭ̈̀ȅ̸̯͚̣̦̲̻͕̳̯̼̣̋ͯ̾͂̓ͯ͌ͦ̃ͯ͌ͩ̿̈́͢ ̷̛̳̫͙̔̽̾̂̊̚̕͜N͌̔̊̀͐͌̏ͦͪ͂̐ͭ̏̂́̿̄҉͇̙͖͙̙̪̕ę̶̶̥̰͖̲̗̱̩͑͂̐̇̈́́ͮͪ͑̔͛̕͟ẑ̧̦͖̥̜̹̻̞̤̩̄̓̋̉̄̑ͤͫ͋̄ͯͪͬ̐͂̈͆
15:30:06 <moon__> p̷̵̧̪͍̳͎̜̝͔͎̼̔̔̒ͤ̋͌ͨ̌ͨ͊͘ͅe̖̭̭͚̣͎̟̮̙ͦ̾̎̏͛͆ͯͧ̅̿̓ͥͬͮ͐̀̄̅ͪ͠r̨̢̔ͫ̀ͮ̍̋ͦ̉ͦ̚͏̗̲̯̰́ͅd̸̷̖̟͍͍̯̯͇̻̟̠̘̗̍ͪ̄͐̈́ͤ̃̉́̕͠ï̡̪̙͈̹̪̞͇̺͖͚̟̬̟̗̟̻͓̱̏ͮ̾̃̊͛ͬ̈́ͯ̀ͭ͛̃ͮ̾̀ͤ͢͡aͪ͑͒̈ͯ̅̇̈́͒̀ͭ̇ͮ͝҉̴̡̩͔̙͕͍͇̟̟͎̙̘̳̙̦͉͍͇̞͘ǹ̡̖̠̦͖̠̞̦̣͍̦̯̮̳̭̮ͪ̃ͯͯ̓̂ͣ͊̿̔̐
15:30:14 <HackEgo> 2 graphemes \ 3 codepoints \ 4 Java characters \ 8 UTF-8 bytes
15:30:24 <xfix> `len T͆̈́ͮ̌҉͔̯̞͚̲̗͈̼̕͝ỏ̫̟͖̱̪͔̻̥͕̙͈ͬ͌̀̀̚̕͢ ̒ͧͮͬͥ͂ͣ͑ͬ͗̂̎̓҉̸̢̦̯̲̳͞ͅi͙͚͎͙͖͐̉̐͆ͯ͢͡͠n̷͔͖̰͖̰̝̹̪̗̖͔̺̤͖̽̈̍̆͗̑̽͑͆̒̽͊͊̅ͥ̔̚͠v̡͙͇̻͍̼̩̮͎͈̝̘̬̻̭̖̈́͗ͫ̄ͭ̓͌͌ͯ̏ͫͮ͐̑̀͠o̧ͪ̏ͤ̀̈̔̐̿ͯ͂ͨ́͞҉͙̰̲͚̥̭̗͍̘̭͔̯k̶͆͆ͬͫ̃ͤͦ͗̓ͧ͡͏͍̫̞̼͍̠͇̙͖̺̝̦̼̘͜͞ͅë́̒
15:30:25 <HackEgo> 9 graphemes \ 203 codepoints \ 397 UTF-8 bytes
15:31:48 <gamemanj> moon__: -... -- . .- -.. .-.. .-.. -.. .- . -- -...
15:31:59 <moon__> Thts obviously morse code
15:32:03 <moon__> `len T̸̛͚̘͎̱̠͓̼͍̠̠͚̅̍̇͂̄̆̄͊̅̒̋̍͟͝h̷̛̛̫̼̗͙̉ͧͥ̉ͪ̋̿ͮ̃̎ͪͭ̈̀ȅ̸̯͚̣̦̲̻͕̳̯̼̣̋ͯ̾͂̓ͯ͌ͦ̃ͯ͌ͩ̿̈́͢ ̷̛̳̫͙̔̽̾̂̊̚̕͜N͌̔̊̀͐͌̏ͦͪ͂̐ͭ̏̂́̿̄҉͇̙͖͙̙̪̕ę̶̶̥̰͖̲̗̱̩͑͂̐̇̈́́ͮͪ͑̔͛̕͟ẑ̧̦͖̥̜̹̻̞̤̩̄̓̋̉̄̑ͤͫ͋̄ͯͪͬ̐͂̈͆p̷̵̧̪͍̳͎̜̝͔͎̼̔̔̒ͤ̋͌ͨ̌ͨ͊͘ͅeͦ̾̎̏
15:32:03 <moon__> ̖̭̭͚̣͎̟̮̙͛͆ͯͧ̅̿̓ͥͬͮ͐̀̄̅ͪ͠r̨̢̔ͫ̀ͮ̍̋ͦ̉ͦ̚͏̗̲̯̰́ͅd̸̷̖̟͍͍̯̯͇̻̟̠̘̗̍ͪ̄͐̈́ͤ̃̉́̕͠ï̡̪̙͈̹̪̞͇̺͖͚̟̬̟̗̟̻͓̱̏ͮ̾̃̊͛ͬ̈́ͯ̀ͭ͛̃ͮ̾̀ͤ͢͡aͪ͑͒̈ͯ̅̇̈́͒̀ͭ̇ͮ͝҉̴̡̩͔̙͕͍͇̟̟͎̙̘̳̙̦͉͍͇̞͘ǹ̡̖̠̦͖̠̞̦̣͍̦̯̮̳̭̮ͪ̃ͯͯ̓̂ͣ͊̿̔̐ ̴̨͚̘̬̫̮̳̣̦̰̻͇̈͐̄̈́̒ͪ̍͊̑̑̃
15:32:03 <moon__> ͓̼̯͓̘ḩ̸̝͖͉̰̳̺̪͖͕̩̲͇ͮ͂ͩͤͭ̓̃ͥ̀͘͝ȋ̸̧̫̙̠͔͍͇̣̜̠̩͓̟̬̜̰̲̫̲͕̄ͨ̇̓͗͂ͪ̂͌ͧ͛̚v̶̸̧̹͙̼͙̽ͮ̐ͯ͗ͮ͘͜ȩ̣̩̫̜͈͙̦͕̙̭͆͊͊̃̏͑̑́̀-̞̹͖̰̘̱̦͊ͥ̏ͭ̎͂̅̂̉͟͞m̑̐̋͊͛ͩ̍̈́̕҉̥̰̟̺̝̭̤̥i̧̎̂͗͛̾ͫ͐ͧ̓ͥ̋̊̓͘҉̡̛̩̩̣͚̯̪̙͓n̬̭̥̭̖̜͍̟͍͕͎̪̟̽̅̀͑̉̓͊̿̉͂͊̓̀ͦ͞͞d͗̂̋ͫ̄̒̎̽ͩ͋̔͊̆̔̃ͭ
15:32:03 <moon__> ̵̧͒̔͏̠̯̜͔͕͇̗͚͎̫̘͖͕̺̮͔̕͢ ̶̢̝̲̪̞̩̙̯̗̣͎̮̝̗͈̰̒ͨ͒̈́ͥͭ̎͑͗́ͣͪͪ̎͂͋̕͞o̢̮̮̮̜̺̣̳̞̦̙̲̜̰̫ͫ̄̆̈̒́́̕fͥ̅͛͗̿́͏̷̜̮̦̭̭̘̦̳̭͞ ̧̼̟̣̪̯̳̻̠̱̓̃͐͊͐̏c̬̲̟̹̠͇̭̣̩͖͇̥͈̅̐̑̉͋̆͊̄͗̒͌͜͠h̸̨̡̗̠̮̦̞̭̗̣̹̯͉͍̳̔ͫ͛̋̈ͤ̈͟͡a̷̢͕̥̮͉̲͙̭̜̟͎͉ͥͭ͌́̀̄ͫ̎͂ͩ͆ͪo̵̵̸̴̘̠̮̎ͣ̈́̓ͤͧ̾ͥ͆̈́͋̂ͩͪ̀̈́ͪ
15:32:03 <moon__> ͔̭̞s̯̻̻̥͓̘͖̩̦̞̭͈͇͎̝͍͖ͥͦ͐̈́̔͂ͤͧͨ̎͢ͅͅ.̃ͭ̓ͫ̒̃̊ͭ̓̉̌҉̵̩͕̥͍̘̥͕̀ ̶̴͍͕͔ͤ̔ͯ̽͌̎̔ͭ͌̾̏͛̽̿͋̌͆Z̡̡̛̗̙̳̭̗̬̘̫̬̺̺̺̜͎͎͈̻͚̱ͭ̊̂̊ͥ̽̃̽ͩ̂̀͜͠a̷̛͚͓̗̙̟̰̠̰͔̦̰̰͚͂͊ͥͫ̎ͮͧ̔̾̾̑̑ͯ́l̷̡̛̛͔̩̲̦͉͔̜͉̼͍̺̳̩̭̘̲̱͓̐ͦͤ̊͊ͪ̐ͫ̌͜g̀̓̃ͫͭͩͦ̓҉̴̷̝̤̳̤̞̬͈̜͎oͤ̑ͮ
15:32:04 <moon__> ͕͚̙͎͍̥̭͗̂̍͠.̻͈̝̠͚̺̬̰͉̺̣̠͓̬̗̬̉ͦͤͯͧ͛͐̇ͪͤͭ̏̔̀̚͟͡
15:32:06 <HackEgo> 9 graphemes \ 202 codepoints \ 395 UTF-8 bytes
15:33:19 <gamemanj> moon__: But, in any case... can you handle this?
15:33:36 <gamemanj> (No, I don't know what it will be on your screen. That's part of the fun!)
15:33:40 <moon__> the current motd states 'Contains only free ranging moons' Yay
15:34:26 <moon__> `len T͆̈́ͮ̌҉͔̯̞͚̲̗͈̼̕͝ỏ̫̟͖̱̪͔̻̥͕̙͈ͬ͌̀̀̚̕͢ ̒ͧͮͬͥ͂ͣ͑ͬ͗̂̎̓҉̸̢̦̯̲̳͞ͅi͙͚͎͙͖͐̉̐͆ͯ͢͡͠n̷͔͖̰͖̰̝̹̪̗̖͔̺̤͖̽̈̍̆͗̑̽͑͆̒̽͊͊̅ͥ̔̚͠v̡͙͇̻͍̼̩̮͎͈̝̘̬̻̭̖̈́͗ͫ̄ͭ̓͌͌ͯ̏ͫͮ͐̑̀͠o̧ͪ̏ͤ̀̈̔̐̿ͯ͂ͨ́͞҉͙̰̲͚̥̭̗͍̘̭͔̯k̶͆͆ͬͫ̃ͤͦ͗̓ͧ͡͏͍̫̞̼͍̠͇̙͖̺̝̦̼̘͜͞ͅ
15:34:26 <moon__> ë̷͔̥̟͈̳̝̫̜̺̹́̒͒ͦ͒̊̑ͨ̒͋̈́̄́͘͜͡ ̢̛̬̻̱̹̻̯̪̊̔ͥ̑̽͂̀͠͠t̙̩̤͉̘̻͙̗̟͎͈̯͙͐̎͗ͩ̋̓ͪ̉͂̓ͯ̂͢h̃̊ͥ̄̄̅̾ͥ̏ͭ҉̭̣̩̮̝̦́̕͞e̡̺̦̠̦̩̖̅͐͒̾̎̐͌ͥͮ̒͋ͩ͑͛͒̔̆́̚̚͟͟ ̷̸̜̠̩̜̥̭̟̍͒̏̍ͤ͆͑ͥ͟͞͞ȟ̡̩̺̩͔̦̖̀̂̊ͯ̊̈ị͚̣̪̲̥̖͈̼̪̗̓̈̅̎̒̈́̑̐͐͗͐͠v̛̰̭̟̪̹̌ͪ̂̈́̽ͥͤ̔ͮ͠͞ͅ
15:34:26 <moon__> è̴̴̷̺͎̺̖͇̻̻͇͙̳̪͓̬͇͇̹̮̯̮ͯ̈́ͩͥ́̚-̷̷͖̖̮͈̞̪͚͔͍̯̠̼̠̮͙̾̔̍͌ͧ͡m̨̙̖̩̺̭̲̥̩͔̱̞̣̠̉̎ͤ͌̋͌̄ͬ͐ͪ͋͊ͦ̔͋̚͢͠͡į͒̇̑͑̊͊ͣͬ͐ͭ͋͏̧̘̰̼̯̮̲͖͟n̴̪͚̞̣̙̫̜̖̖̪̭̋ͧͫ͌̐̃̾̄̍ͨ͆ͧ̂̋̊ͥͬ͛͌͝͠d̵̴̸͍̖̗͈̗̯͈͎͈͔͕̲̐̒̈ͬ̽̀̋̀͞ ͗͊̒ͨ̍̍̈́̂̉҉̸̞͎͚̞͎̫̱̹͇̯̭͞r͒͌͛͌͑͠҉̣
15:34:26 <moon__> ͚͎͙͚̭e̠͕̳͈̱̬̽̍ͩ̑ͩ͆̃̀̕͟p̨͉̲̖͇̊ͨ̽ͩ̐͑ͯͦ̀͠͡r̴̷͔̱̹̪̺͓̲̠̙̼̱͇ͣ̒̉̔͐͂ͯ̐ͧͫ͌ͯ͋̌͟͝e̴̴̻̤͇͍͕͖̳̮͎̣̟ͬͭͨ̒͗ͮ̂͛̈̋ͦ̋̎̀́s͋͐ͤ̐̈́̿ͣ̒̐̿̉ͥ͏͖̤͖͔̫͙͔̻͈̖͙͕̜̱̜͟ͅẹ̸̛̥̦̟̳̟̗̺͖̳̥͚̜̟̮̳̱̥ͦͪ̄ͭ̈͑̐͂̏̀́n͒͗ͫ̂ͣͮ̈́͌̃ͭ̈̉ͯ͛̄ͨ̔̊ͮ́҉̲̙̹͎̗͔̣̙̦̭̪̘̖t̔ͩ͂̈ͮ̚
15:34:26 <moon__> ͒͐̓ͦͤ̐̾͐̚͢҉̶̺͇̬̹̻͇̗͖͎̗̯͓͙̹̻̠͉͢ͅi͍̲̝͕̠̹͈͈̪̠̖̮̜ͨ̾ͧ̐̐͛ͣ͂̈͒ͫ̚̕͟͞ṇ̢̢̫͖̼̦͓̤̬̱̱͂ͫ̑̀́ͣ̎̅̊ͫ̏͆̃̇̈́͛ͧ̀ģ͙͎̯̲̟̥̯̞̝̙̫̹̤̭͖̬̙̍ͨ̇̌̀͐̾̿ͫ ̷͔̻̹͉̗͉̀̒̄͑̽̾͌̾̑͊́̍̃̃ͪ́́ͅċ̨̾ͫ̃̽ͬ̊̌ͤ̂̆̂͗͌ͭ̀͊̚͘͏͕̫̮̭̱̙͇͙̩̦̙͕̠ḩ̢͐͑ͭ̄̊̔͑́ͣ͗̒ͫ͛̒ͪͯ́̚
15:34:27 <moon__> ͔͎͔̗̫̮͓̱̺̯̭̻a̢̡̤̖͎͍̞̪͋͒̏́ͥ̎̽ͬ͘̕o̵͙̦̺͙̮̗͚̪̟̪̻̥̬ͯͭ́̌̇ͩ͐̓ͯ̈̚͞s̢̛̬̪̩̜̮̬̬̺̺̼͕̬̯̠̮̫̾̔ͤ̓̓̀ͤ͒̒̓͐̿́͜͝.̢̠̭̖͕̪͍̬͔̥̯͉̬̫̞̝̩̭̪̉͗ͤ͂̽ͨͯ̑̐ͮ͌ͦ̚͡
15:34:27 <moon__> <moon__> ̸̛̩͍͚͉͖̰̘͙̮̻͉̺̗̯̙̰̈́͊͋̓̐̚͘̕ͅI̓ͣ͑̅ͤ́̓ͮ̑҉̠̠͎̜̟̘̩͎̲̩͜ň̦͙̬͓̗̘̗̗̭͉̠̪ͣ̉̆̓ͯ̃͐̎̒̆͗̇̓̅̊̂͋̕͘̕͠v̢̹̹͓̼̱͔͚̭͓̮̲͍̖̬̣̄͊͒́̅͐̓ͮ͋ͥͮ̇̃͋ͨ́ͅǫ̣̺̮̣̹͙̮̣̞͈͈̉̍ͧ̒̆͗̓ͨ͛͋̐̆͛͜kͭͥͬ̎ͤ̀́͊̀̇̆̏͊҉̧̝̩̬̹̯̦̻͎̣̗͈͉̜͜͠ͅi̡̋̉̐̃́͑͆̔́ͬͦ͆҉̵҉̻̲̭̦̰̼̜͡
15:34:27 <HackEgo> 8 graphemes \ 199 codepoints \ 390 UTF-8 bytes
15:34:28 <moon__> ͓̰͈͙̺̝̳͓n͕̱̯̫͙͓̫͇̪͋͊͗̈́̄ͥ͗͛͒̿͑ͮ͋͟g̵͓͙̣̥̪̞͙͖͕̝̼̱̅͛ͧ̆ͩ̑̃̓͐̂͒̆̑ͭ̽͛̀̀͜ ̢̡̞̳̥̻̺̹͙̰̘̖͉̫͈̳̣͚̙͈̝̃ͯ̍̔̕͜t̨̪̖̳̖͚̱̗̘̦̫̳̏̋̏ͨͨh̠̘̲̙͕̘̩̮̞̿̃ͬͣ̈̓̈̈́̄͘͡ȩ̴͚͇̱̯͍̒ͯͣ̑̆̇̍͛͑̌͆̚͜͞ ͈̪̥͕̦͈͉̦͉͙̬̟̺̓͊ͭ̅̀̈́̌̽͂̄̔̄͐̈ͦ̀͠͡ͅf̵̑̉͆̓͋ͬ͐̉͆҉̷̸̩͎̤̜̠̺̘̱͝
15:34:28 <moon__> ͚͕̰̰͖̪͙ę̶̶̖̜͉̬̘̬̞̱͓̳̘͖̗̬̣̦̀̈͂ͭ͌̊̔̽e̶͂ͮ̅͛͗ͭ̽͗̇́̃̽̑̃̚͏̱͍͈̥̀l̛̛͙͓̘̗̲͍̺̹̣̝͊ͦ͗̈̂̌ͭͦͥ̓̂̀̌̉̈́̆̔́͂͜͜i̵̵̧͖̞̤̱̺̜̭ͣ̅̐̂̓̂̐ͣ̾̚͟n̶ͪ̍ͭͪ͋ͧ͂͋̽̅͆ͦ͗͌͏̻͚̳͖͍̻̻͉̫͎g̡̫̜̫̮̳̦͕͔͉͎ͪ̿̈͌ͭ̅̃ͫ͒̊̃ͦ̊ͪ̆̂͠ͅ ̷̜̙̤̼͂̆̿̄̇̃̾̽̑̑̉̾͆̍͊͗͘ô̴̠̅̈́ͩ̾͒̃ͤͮ̈ͨ̓
15:34:29 <moon__> ͕̤̘̖̣̬̣̖̦̞̯̣͍̜̠̼f̷̧̣̩ͨ̌ͥͧͯ͒́̋͗͛̽̍̉ͤ͟͠͞ͅ ̨̨̊̓ͮ͌̈ͥ́̐̀̒͐ͮͪ͊̽̏̀ͬ̍͏̵̡̠̫̲͚͚̱͕̺̟̦͓̳c̷̗̻̱̦̩ͨ̽ͯ͌̑̽̅̊̌̅̕͠͡h̵̨͇͍͈̻̯͚̙̗̜͑ͭ̈́ͧ̋ͭͬ̉ͫ͆ͭ̚͢͝å͛͒ͬͨ̉̀͒͌ͣ͑̈́͘͏̘͈̥̟̦̝ơ̢̦̬̤̪̙̘̪̥̤͔̞͔̩̹̘͎͈͂ͭͩͦ̅̉ͫ̂ͧ͗ͭ̎͋̌ͬ͟͡͠s̴̴̛ͬ͗̋̓ͭͦ̿̅ͦ̏̀ͫ̊̒ͯ͊͑̈ͪ́
15:34:29 <moon__> ͖̙̙̠͈͞.̛ͩ̉ͧ͑͊̒̕͠҉̺̪̦̘̩
15:34:30 <moon__> <moon__> ̧̨̨̙̟̞̯͔͓̤̞͙̗̹̞̱̝̭̗̽̾́ͯ̑ͥͩͭͦ̃̀͢W̵̵̢̼͉͍̝̽̂̾̅̈́̈̚͘ȋͩͪ̆͋ͣ̊ͤ̒̋̋̚͜͢͏̝̹͕͍̞͕̙͕͇̦͔̠̦ṯ̡̘͖̮̖̬͎̗ͦͧͮ̽͗͂ͩ̉̈̓ͭ̚͘͢ḥ̷̣̲̬̖̟̤̣͙̟͖̟̙̝̝̭̝̭̣̈̃̈͌͒͋̋ͦͫ͆̏̍́́͘ ̽ͣ͌ͦ̉͊ͣ̅͆ͬ̽͑҉̶̪̜͙̣̯̮̰̰̥ͅo̅̀ͩ͊̽̅͛̌ͧ̔͑ͮ̄͑̾͟͟͠͏͚͙̣̹̹̖͙̺̦̞̹̘̺u͛͂
15:34:30 <moon__> ͐ͣ̐͏̧͔̗̘͔͔̝̼̘ť̂̐͗̋҉̸̧͇̻͓̝̙̣̫̗͇̩̝̠̲̀͘ͅͅ ͚͚͙̖̦̟̭̞̉́̎̇̂̌͑ͣ̀́͢o̷̧̺̬̠̝͕͙̙̲̰̼͚͔̺̫̣̻̽ͤͬ͗̑ͪͫrͦ̇͛ͧ̓͋̽̐ͪͣͤ̓ͭͨͩ̓҉̷̢͎͕̣̪͕͔̣̮̜͈͈̫̤̤̰͜͜ͅd̵̡̼̠̪̠͌͊̑̏ͬͥ͑ͬ̿ͨ̉̀ͮ̀̀̚̕ę͍͍̦̬̼͊̆̃̍͘͟͟͜r͕̲̖̫͕̪̫̪̗͖̼͕̠͑̈́ͥͪ̆ͦ͂̿̋͛̿͆͋̅̅̉̕͘͠.͆ͩ̎ͭ͂̎̊ͫ́̔̒̎͂
15:34:41 <gamemanj> moon... the smile is everywhere ﺕ
15:35:12 <oerjan> moon__: i'm very tempted to quiet you
15:35:15 <moon__> nice unicode smiles using the smae trick i did for the zalgo text
15:35:41 <HackEgo> 1 codepoint \ 3 UTF-8 bytes
15:36:30 <gamemanj> "And moon__ was happy in his discovery of the Arabic Presentation Forms-B block, and did not continue spamming."
15:36:52 <HackEgo> 2 codepoints \ 4 Java characters \ 8 UTF-8 bytes
15:37:02 <xfix> Hm, it doesn't recognize a grapheme here...
15:37:08 <HackEgo> \ This is perl 5, version 14, subversion 2 (v5.14.2) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi \ (with 88 registered patches, see perl -V for more detail) \ \ Copyright 1987-2011, Larry Wall \ \ Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the \ GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit
15:37:45 <xfix> Old Unicode database, oh well.
15:37:57 <HackEgo> U+1F1FA REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER U \ UTF-8: f0 9f 87 ba UTF-16BE: d83cddfa Decimal: 🇺 \ 🇺 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+1F1F8 REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER S \ UTF-8: f0 9f 87 b8 UTF-16BE: d83cddf8 Decimal: 🇸 \ 🇸 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
15:38:06 <gamemanj> hmm. So would it technically be a legal problem if I downloaded perl from hackego, and who would it be a legal problem for?
15:38:15 <gamemanj> Me for downloading it... or HackEgo for not distributing source?
15:38:44 <gamemanj> (or is the source just somewhere I don't know about - perfectly possible)
15:38:51 <xfix> GPL doesn't require the source code to be distributed, considering you don't get a binary.
15:39:15 <gamemanj> xfix: If I downloaded HackEgo's perl binary,
15:39:34 <gamemanj> then I would have a binary, wouldn't I?
15:39:58 <zzo38> I also wrote a program "utftovlq" (I think an old version may be installed on HackEgo) that can deal with UTF-8 and UTF-16 as well as other stuff too.
15:40:23 <xfix> That depends on whether "downloading a binary from HackEgo" counts as conveying, but I don't want to check that, as I'm not a lawyer.
15:41:31 <zzo38> By a series of pipes with utftovlq and wc you can do the same counting you did except for Unicode graphemes
15:42:35 <oerjan> gamemanj: HackEgo's perl is not in a spot that you can normally download. you could get around it of course, but it's not intended to be.
15:43:19 <oerjan> although i suspect with all the cruft that's on it, HackEgo may already have plenty of copyright problems.
15:44:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later, anyway).
15:46:58 <moon__> ̴̮̘͔̰͙̽ͪ̔̓̃̊ͣ͛̽̈̿͒ͭ̎̌ͩ͝
15:46:58 <moon__> ̶̴̬͓̫̣͎̬͈̮̖͈̟͕͔͇̔ͧ͑ͣ̑ͩͧ͛̐ͮ̿̇̎̐̽ͨ̄͑ͅͅ
15:46:58 <moon__> ̸̈ͩͫͪͧ͂̈̎ͨͧ̓͑̑͘͢͡҉̜͇̙͔̣̼̗̯͍͉̯͓͉̖͉
15:46:58 <moon__> ̝̼̱͙̮͍͖̙̗̮̘͇̦̤̹̳͍̮͓̽ͬͦ́̅̽̈̈́͐̓ͧ̋̈́̅ͭ̄̎͘͘͢͡
15:46:59 <moon__> ̵̢͇̰̠̬̮̲̻̮͈͔͋́̏ͦͩͩ̅ͥ͢͟ͅ
15:46:59 <moon__> ̴̢̮͖͔̯̻͙̼͖̪̰̲̟̦̘̩͙̅ͧͮ̃̍̆̅̊̄̅ͣ̄̾͛͌
15:47:00 <moon__> ̴̨̛͉̬̗̱̜͉͔̤̹̭͇̪͓̓ͯ̓̂̑ͭͧ̇̽̓ͭ͜
15:47:00 <moon__> ̸̨̰͕̜̪̪̖͔̺̮̲͓̪̘̳̻̯͎͛͗̾͌ͤ̑́ͭͣͦ̃̔ͨ̂ͭͮ̓̚̚͜
15:47:01 <moon__> ̮̺̺̞̜̤̺̻̼̩̫̬̱̋͊̽̆̊̈́̑̀́
15:47:02 <moon__> ̵̸̵̫̲̝̦͍͈̙͕̩̺̱̬̣͆ͫ̿ͯͤ͒̾͑ͨ̕͢ͅͅ
15:47:02 <moon__> ̤̤̲̭̭͚͚̥͓̗̰̤̮̆̀̐ͫ̾̉̋ͪͭ͛̄́͜͝ͅ
15:47:03 <moon__> ̂̓͐ͣ̓̏̄͆ͦ͞͏̘̠̪͓̙͕̝̫̬̮̪̹̫͠
15:47:17 <moon__> *Playing around with unicode chars*
15:50:18 <xfix> `fetch http://www.cpan.org/src/5.0/perl-5.22.2.tar.gz
15:50:43 <xfix> Okay, that's somewhat of a bad idea. Whatever.
15:51:24 <xfix> Yeah, I realized that pretty sure configure script would be stopped in middle.
15:51:26 <HackEgo> 2016-05-14 14:51:07 URL:http://www.cpan.org/src/5.0/perl-5.22.2.tar.gz [15939581/15939581] -> "perl-5.22.2.tar.gz" [1]
15:51:31 <gamemanj> if anyone wants me, I'll be busy hiding in a bunker
15:51:54 <xfix> `run tar xf perl-5.22.tar.gz # Ah, whatever, I'm doing it anyway
15:51:56 <HackEgo> tar: perl-5.22.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory \ tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
15:52:06 <xfix> `run tar xf perl-5.22.2.tar.gz # Ah, whatever, I'm doing it anyway
15:53:30 <xfix> `len is it locked?
15:53:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting).
15:55:02 <xfix> `run sleep 40 & disown
15:55:09 -!- bender has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:55:11 <xfix> `run echo Does disown prevent lock?
15:55:33 <HackEgo> USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.5 0.1 1012 272 ? S 14:55 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 14:55 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 14:55 0:00 [ksoftirqd/0] \ 0 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?
15:55:37 <xfix> `run ps aux | grep sleep
15:55:39 <HackEgo> 5000 288 0.0 0.2 4180 620 ? S 14:55 0:00 sh -c 'env' 'PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin' 'HACKENV=/hackenv' 'http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128' 'LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8' '/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits' 'bash' '-c' 'ps aux | grep sleep' | cat \ 5000 290 0.0 0.6 19136 1584 ?
15:55:45 -!- FreeFull has joined.
15:55:57 <xfix> `run ps aux | grep sleep | wc -l
15:56:02 <xfix> `run sleep 400 & disown
15:56:04 <xfix> `run ps aux | grep sleep | wc -l
15:56:52 <gamemanj> so sleep 1 isn't an insta-kill
15:57:12 -!- tromp_ has joined.
15:57:16 <gamemanj> `run sleep 5 ; echo This will occur at 15:57:20
15:57:24 <HackEgo> This will occur at 15:57:20
15:57:41 <xfix> `run sleep 10 ; echo Wait for it...
15:57:41 <xfix> `run sleep 10 ; echo Wait for it...
15:57:42 <xfix> `run sleep 10 ; echo Wait for it...
15:58:11 <moon__> you downloaded a new version of perl, only to not unpack and install it?
15:58:33 <gamemanj> moon__: A crime beyond belief, I'm sure...
15:58:33 <xfix> It's already unpacked, but I do wonder how I prevent ./configure from locking the bot.
15:58:55 <moon__> what happens if the bot locks?
15:59:09 <xfix> Uhm, why I don't get Wait for it response...
15:59:14 <xfix> `run sleep 4 ; echo Wait for it...
15:59:14 <xfix> `run sleep 4 ; echo Wait for it...
15:59:38 <gamemanj> if the bot locks:then whoever owns the bot will probably kill xfix
16:00:33 <moon__> but gregor has not been on in ages
16:01:07 <gamemanj> ...ok, in which case I retract my previous estimation of mortality.
16:02:28 <int-e> the hunter returns with food and an empty quiver... err wallet.
16:02:34 <gamemanj> I think that sleep-300 locked up HE
16:03:24 <xfix> `cd perl-5.22.2; ./Configure -d -Dprefix=/hackenv > /hackenv/logs
16:03:26 <HackEgo> invalid command ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
16:03:29 <xfix> `run cd perl-5.22.2; ./Configure -d -Dprefix=/hackenv > /hackenv/logs
16:04:46 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ logs \ misle \ paste \ perl-5.22.2 \ perl-5.22.2.tar.gz \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
16:05:44 <xfix> Hm, so here are logs... web interface is so slow...
16:06:00 <xfix> I'm clearly abusing Mercurial.
16:06:06 <moon__> Hackego lacks a web interface
16:06:17 <moon__> fetch and paste are the only ones
16:06:28 <xfix> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
16:06:44 <moon__> im talking about things like wget
16:06:59 <HackEgo> \ Beginning of configuration questions for perl5. \ \ Checking echo to see how to suppress newlines... \ ...using \c \ The star should be here-->* \ \ First let's make sure your kit is complete. Checking...
16:07:39 <moon__> hackego only lets programs run for a certain amount of time
16:08:12 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
16:08:14 <gamemanj> it stops at "First let's make sure your kit is complete. Checking..."
16:08:19 <xfix> `run cd perl-5.22.2; nohup ./Configure -d -Dprefix=/hackenv > /hackenv/logs &
16:08:21 <gamemanj> after that there's nothing in the file
16:08:47 <HackEgo> nohup: missing operand \ Try `nohup --help' for more information.
16:08:48 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ logs \ misle \ paste \ perl-5.22.2 \ perl-5.22.2.tar.gz \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
16:09:03 <xfix> `ls perl-5.22.2
16:09:04 <HackEgo> Usage: nohup COMMAND [ARG]... \ or: nohup OPTION \ Run COMMAND, ignoring hangup signals. \ \ --help display this help and exit \ --version output version information and exit \ \ If standard input is a terminal, redirect it from /dev/null. \ If standard output is a terminal, append output to `nohup.out' if possible, \ `$HOME/n
16:09:05 <HackEgo> Artistic \ asan_ignore \ AUTHORS \ autodoc.pl \ av.c \ av.h \ caretx.c \ cflags.SH \ Changes \ charclass_invlists.h \ config_h.SH \ configpm \ Configure \ configure.com \ configure.gnu \ cop.h \ Copying \ cpan \ Cross \ cv.h \ cygwin \ deb.c \ dist \ djgpp \ doio.c \ doop.c \ dosish.h \ dquote_static.c \ dump.c \ ebcdic_tables.h \ embed.fnc \ embed
16:09:13 <xfix> `run ls perl-5.22.2/noh*
16:09:15 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access perl-5.22.2/noh*: No such file or directory
16:09:45 <xfix> Hm, clearly I need to compile for it.
16:10:07 <xfix> Cross-compiling is annoying...
16:10:12 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
16:10:33 <moon__> umlbox is a powerful sandboxer
16:11:45 <int-e> `/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6
16:11:47 <HackEgo> GNU C Library (Debian EGLIBC 2.13-38) stable release version 2.13, by Roland McGrath et al. \ Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. \ There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A \ PARTICULAR PURPOSE. \ Compiled by GNU CC version 4.4.7. \ Compiled on
16:12:34 <xfix> I figured it was Debian, I was more curious about an architecture (x86_32 vs x86_64... or perhaps ARM, hehe) :)
16:12:57 <moon__> hackego runs debian underneath umlbox
16:13:01 <int-e> I wanted the glibc version
16:14:12 <gamemanj> why on earth would libc be executable...?
16:14:45 <int-e> a) to confuse people
16:15:06 <int-e> b) to give an easy way to find out its version (useful) and license (not so much)
16:15:12 * gamemanj tries executing a few other libraries as programs and just gets segmentation faults
16:15:38 <xfix> There is no reason for it to not be an executable.
16:15:39 <int-e> sorry, it's a special feature
16:15:40 <xfix> So they did it.
16:16:24 <int-e> it's better than bundling some sort of glibc-info executable.
16:16:37 <xfix> (other than making the program huge, but I doubt GNU were concerned about that, considering how many features glibc has)
16:17:24 <xfix> Well, you need to store a license string.
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16:17:44 <int-e> well, how much of the 1.7 MB file... don't answer that.
16:18:17 <gamemanj> well, if it's GPLV3, then expect it to take up 85.3% of the file
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16:36:20 <HackEgo> perl-5.22.2.tar.gz \ \ perl-5.22.2: \ Artistic \ asan_ignore \ AUTHORS \ autodoc.pl \ av.c \ av.h \ caretx.c \ cflags.SH \ Changes \ charclass_invlists.h \ config_h.SH \ configpm \ Configure \ configure.com \ configure.gnu \ cop.h \ Copying \ cpan \ Cross \ cv.h \ cygwin \ deb.c \ dist \ djgpp \ doio.c \ doop.c \ dosish.h \ dquote_static.c \ dump.
16:36:30 <xfix> `run echo perl*
16:36:31 <HackEgo> perl-5.22.2 perl-5.22.2.tar.gz
16:36:33 <xfix> `run rm -r perl*
16:36:45 -!- tromp_ has joined.
16:36:52 <xfix> `run rm -r perl* # if at first you don't succeed...
16:37:05 <HackEgo> rm: remove write-protected regular file `perl-5.22.2/pp_pack.c'?
16:37:12 <xfix> `run rm -rf perl*
16:37:50 <xfix> `run rm -rf perl*
16:37:58 <xfix> `run echo perl*
16:41:33 <xfix> `run hg update f698aeafd7ca
16:41:34 <HackEgo> abort: could not lock working directory of /hackenv: Read-only file system
16:41:45 <xfix> `revert f698aeafd7ca
16:41:56 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
16:42:29 <gamemanj> ...ok, it said "Done.", so it might be fine
16:42:39 <xfix> I think I reverted too much...
16:42:44 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: len: not found
16:42:49 <xfix> `revert fd90e11cc6b9
16:42:51 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
16:43:37 <xfix> `run echo echo | tee shirt
16:44:53 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `shirt': No such file or directory
16:44:55 <xfix> It is, indeed.
16:45:25 <gamemanj> The real question is... is the reason it's confusing for me, the same as the reason for you?
16:45:42 <xfix> `run :(){ :|:& };:
16:46:11 <int-e> `` diff bin/\` bin/run
16:46:12 <HackEgo> 1,4c1 \ < #!/bin/bash \ < TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ < shopt -s extglob globstar \ < eval -- "$1" | rnooodl \ --- \ > echo run run run
16:46:37 <HackEgo> GNU bash, version 4.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) \ These shell commands are defined internally. Type `help' to see this list. \ Type `help name' to find out more about the function `name'. \ Use `info bash' to find out more about the shell in general. \ Use `man -k' or `info' to find out more about commands not in this list. \ \ A star (
16:46:44 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
16:46:48 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnoooooodl
16:47:06 <xfix> `` cat bin/run
16:47:25 <xfix> `` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` echo sorry
16:48:58 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \ benvenuto \ bf \ bff \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ bin \ b
16:49:07 <gamemanj> `run rabbit run rabbit run run run, don't let the farmer get his fun...
16:49:08 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
16:49:41 <gamemanj> `run rabbit run rabbit run run run, don't let the farmer get his fun... He'll get by, without his rabbit pie, so run rabbit run rabbit run run run...
16:49:42 <HackEgo> bash: rabbit: command not found
16:50:05 <HackEgo> Stop taking everything literally!
16:50:23 <int-e> `` run is a joke for people who don't know that `run is a builtin hackego command
16:50:24 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
16:50:49 <HackEgo> invalid command ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
16:50:55 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `newline' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: `run >.>'
16:51:03 <gamemanj> I have no idea what is happening
16:51:10 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: if: not found
16:51:33 <int-e> gamemanj: try typing "run >.>" into bash
16:51:52 <xfix> `mkx bin/if//bash -c "if $@"
16:52:04 <gamemanj> int-e: I suspect it will wipe my HDD.
16:52:11 <int-e> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
16:52:13 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
16:52:22 <gamemanj> Not that I knew that before hand, but asking me to put it into bash told me
16:52:23 <xfix> `if true; then echo Hi.; else Uh oh.; fi
16:52:28 <xfix> `if false; then echo Hi.; else Uh oh.; fi
16:52:29 <HackEgo> bash: Uh: command not found
16:52:35 <xfix> `if false; then echo Hi.; else echo Uh oh.; fi
16:54:19 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language
16:54:23 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language c
16:54:30 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language c++
16:54:31 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:54:41 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language bytepusher
16:54:42 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:54:42 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language english
16:54:43 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:55:12 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language php
16:55:17 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language python
16:55:20 <gamemanj> I ought to get around to writing a BytePusher Brainfuck interpreter
16:55:26 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language shakespeare
16:55:36 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language java
16:55:47 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language brainfuck
16:56:00 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language chef
16:56:02 <HackEgo> Combine the computer and the water in the mixing bowl.
16:56:10 <gamemanj> it seems it is not designed to give serious answers
16:56:23 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language hello-world-in-any-language
16:56:24 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:56:25 <int-e> `hello-world-in-any-language intercal
16:56:26 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:56:38 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language Z-Machine
16:56:39 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:56:39 <int-e> HackEgo: ITYM "PLEASE DONT GIVE UP"
16:56:42 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language infocom
16:56:43 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:56:45 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language z
16:56:45 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:56:59 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language shafuck
16:57:00 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:57:15 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language glass
16:57:16 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:57:19 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language malbolge
16:57:20 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:57:23 <gamemanj> `hello-world-in-any-language deadfish
16:57:24 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
16:57:24 <xfix> ``echo PLEASE DONT GIVE UP > hw/intercal
16:57:25 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found
16:57:29 <xfix> `` echo PLEASE DONT GIVE UP > hw/intercal
16:57:40 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language intercal
16:58:50 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language perl
16:58:51 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
17:00:11 <xfix> Wait a moment, gonna obfuscate some program.
17:03:41 <zzo38> PRINTI "Hello, World!" QUIT
17:04:19 <zzo38> (That is how you do in Z-machine codes; this example is too much oversimplify of course)
17:04:41 <xfix> `fetch https://gist.githubusercontent.com/xfix/2ece5662a831b7a42ce24df4ce9cf91a/raw/975e303bb7836b3ff3242219aac3fa3aae4833cb/gistfile1.txt
17:04:49 <HackEgo> 2016-05-14 16:04:46 URL:https://gist.githubusercontent.com/xfix/2ece5662a831b7a42ce24df4ce9cf91a/raw/975e303bb7836b3ff3242219aac3fa3aae4833cb/gistfile1.txt [212/212] -> "gistfile1.txt" [1]
17:04:56 <xfix> `mv gistfile1.txt hw/perl
17:04:57 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `gistfile1.txt hw/perl' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
17:05:04 <xfix> `` mv gistfile1.txt hw/perl
17:05:12 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language perl
17:05:13 <HackEgo> eval eval'"'.('['^'+').('['^')').('`'|')').('`'|'.').('['^'/').'\\'.'"'.('`'^'(').('`'|'%').('`'|',').('`'|',').('`'|'/').','.('{'^'[').('['^',').('`'|'/').('['^')').('`'|',').('`'|'$').'.'.('!'^'+').'\\'.'"'.'"'
17:07:18 <xfix> But you know, I don't like it.
17:07:20 <int-e> . o O ( bless {}, $you )
17:07:43 <xfix> `` echo Just another Perl hacker > hw/perl
17:07:47 <xfix> I think that's better.
17:07:59 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language Perl
17:08:35 <xfix> `` echo Just another Perl hacker, > hw/perl
17:08:37 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language Perl
17:08:46 <xfix> Okay, now there is a comma.
17:08:53 <HackEgo> php is the PigeonHole Principle
17:08:56 <Taneb> `hello-world-in-any-language Haskell
17:08:57 <HackEgo> Your language does not exist
17:08:59 <HackEgo> Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language
17:09:06 <HackEgo> emacs is the weird brother of nano.
17:09:15 <HackEgo> vi is in a relationship with emacs.
17:09:25 <myname> i liked the obfuscated version better
17:10:36 <Taneb> `` echo Couldn\'t match type \`IO \(\)\' with \`[Char]\' > hw/haskell
17:10:43 <Taneb> `hello-world-in-any-language Haskell
17:10:44 <HackEgo> Couldn't match type `IO ()' with `[Char]'
17:10:59 <xfix> Fair enough :).
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17:12:41 <xfix> But if you want obfuscation...
17:13:01 <xfix> `` echo $'say\tQ[@A`DO world!]~|<HeLhg>' > hw/perl6
17:13:11 <xfix> `hello-world-in-any-language perl6
17:13:12 <HackEgo> sayQ[@A`DO world!]~|<HeLhg>
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17:53:20 <zzo38> I implemented many methods for reducing a picture to a specified palette; what methods did I miss?
17:54:35 <gamemanj> zzo38: I'm pretty sure you missed the "ask the artist of the picture to do it for you" method... (I can't see any list of methods here, so I'm going with what I think you're most likely to miss)
17:55:15 <zzo38> gamemanj: That is separate though so it doesn't count
17:55:38 <gamemanj> True, but again, I can't see a list of methods, so...
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17:57:54 <zzo38> I will tell you what I have though: non-dithered, ordered dither, error diffusion, closest by sum, closest by sum weighted by input values, closest by sum of squares of differences, random dither, penalties for choosing a palette index, Yliluoma's method, sum of squares weighted by channel.
17:59:51 <zzo38> Those are the methods I have
18:00:50 <zzo38> O, and also hold-and-modify
18:01:46 <gamemanj> do you weight the randomness based upon how far the target colour is from the nearest available colour?
18:01:59 <zzo38> The size of the palette can be up to 1024. You can specify a separate dithering mode and best-colour mode, and optionally hold-and-modify.
18:02:07 -!- tromp_ has joined.
18:02:26 <zzo38> gamemanj: It is weighted by user-defined values; currently it doesn't check what colours are available to weight the randomness by
18:03:04 <gamemanj> I didn't recognize most of those dithering methods, TBH.
18:04:03 <zzo38> Not all of them are dithering methods, some are methods to select nearest colour, which can be used in combination with any dithering method (including no dithering).
18:04:22 <gamemanj> The weighting-randomness thing is something I used when trying to convert images to BytePusher, but I'm doing it per-channel.
18:06:06 <zzo38> I think BytePusher uses Netscape palette, and the user-defined weights should be sufficient for this purpose.
18:07:26 <gamemanj> Well, the trouble is that if a colour is exactly on the mark, you won't want to randomly push it, and if a colour is between two colours, you'll want a 50% chance either way.
18:07:56 <gamemanj> So unless "user-defined weights" suggests a quite complicated weighting system where the user can set something like that up...
18:10:58 <zzo38> One of the methods for "closest colour" is to use the one with the closest RGB values which are all no greater than the input value. You can then set a positive weight of 0x3200 and negative weight of 0x0000 and I expect it would work.
18:11:36 <zzo38> (It is farbfeld, so all of these utilities work with 16-bits per channel, although the file you read/write may be a different format.)
18:13:43 <gamemanj> zzo38: The files I input are: anything readable by Java ImageIO in theory, but usually PNG. It's part of the compiler, so the output is simply part of the resulting BytePusher program)
18:14:11 <gamemanj> So farbfeld would probably end up being an external build step.
18:14:34 <gamemanj> (Which is the complicated way of saying "yet another line in a shell script")
18:15:02 <zzo38> My idea is that you would usually pipe farbfeld and not actually need to store farbfeld pictures on disk.
18:21:16 <zzo38> I don't know Java ImageIO because I don't use Java, although I suppose that is how you do in Java.
18:22:54 <zzo38> What I do not have is a program to generate an optimized palette; I should add a program to do that too, if I can know what methods would need and how to do it
18:25:17 <gamemanj> Well, one idea might be to try looking for the most "diverse" colours...
18:26:05 <gamemanj> That is, create a set of all the colours in the image, and pick one based on what is furthest from any you've already selected. Start with the most common colour.
18:26:34 <gamemanj> ("most common" would probably be worked out by averaging all colours in the image, then finding the closest. Just let it be arbitrary failing that...)
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18:29:57 <gamemanj> *cue int-e writing in entries for those 3*
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18:31:41 <zzo38> I could start with one method and then add support for other methods later on
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18:43:27 <int-e> gamemanj: curse your reverse psychology
18:43:37 <HackEgo> writer's block? ¯\(°_o)/¯
18:48:21 <HackEgo> int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv.
18:48:35 <gamemanj> *cue int-e not ever writing in entries for those 3*
18:49:09 <gamemanj> by the rule of reverse psychology you've got to write them now
18:49:44 <int-e> has this ever worked for you?
18:50:04 <HackEgo> gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here.
18:50:49 <gamemanj> I'm still plotting to get revenge on the person who wrote that...
18:52:17 <HackEgo> Your retired mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
18:56:16 <zzo38> Now the program "bitff" can read 256-colours paletted pictures (it previously only supported 2-colours, 4-colours, or 16-colours).
18:59:48 <int-e> I don't get "I. N."
19:00:35 <gamemanj> (int-e: I think I said something along the lines of me being the mad scientist "Insert Name Here".)
19:00:56 <gamemanj> (int-e: It was not meant to be taken literally, but whoever wrote that entry had a sense of humour...)
19:01:36 <zzo38> This program is used to read raw paletted pictures in many formats (it also supports GameBoy format, Famicom format, PC format, packed format, etc); I will also add "ffbit" program to write raw paletted pictures too.
19:03:19 <zzo38> (You will have to use ff-reduce first if you
19:03:38 <zzo38> (You will have to use ff-reduce first if the picture is not already in the required palette)
19:05:48 <gamemanj> so: <somehow put picture in correct format> | ff-reduce | ffbit
19:11:29 <zzo38> Yes, the first part would be a conversion into farbfeld (my package includes a "pngff" program which can be used for that purpose if the input is PNG)
19:13:53 <gamemanj> Apparently zzo38's "Munching Squares" program is the first "real" program I've tried in my tracer that doesn't cause it to infinitely suck up CPU. Now just to hope that it actually produced correct output...
19:14:29 <zzo38> Does it resemble the screenshot?
19:14:52 <gamemanj> Well, the tracer doesn't run the program as such, it analyses it.
19:14:59 <gamemanj> That way in future I could write an AOT compiler for BytePusher.
19:15:27 <gamemanj> (Oh, and obviously any program which heavily self-modifies is going to kill the tracer)
19:15:52 <fizzie> int-e: Was it you who mentioned the esolangs.org expiration? I sent a mail to the Dipert to maybe transfer it over, so it's *possible* we'll avoid it expiring this year. If we're very lucky.
19:18:06 <gamemanj> zzo38: Does the code resemble your code if you look at it funny? http://hastebin.com/omabanuloh.txt
19:18:33 <gamemanj> ...and apparently my quickly written format documentation is off in a few places, VMI jumps to address stored in 2, etc.
19:20:15 <gamemanj> ok, I'm pretty sure the tracer's broken. I say that because I don't see any type-A addresses (aka. indirect accesses)
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19:21:42 <int-e> fizzie: yes that was me
19:21:46 <gamemanj> ...and the occasional advance_cc's missing, because I forgot to add the advance_cc/advance_cc_cvmi on fallthrough...
19:21:49 <int-e> fizzie: thanks for the update
19:22:15 <int-e> and taking the initiative :)
19:23:53 <zzo38> Hardly; you can look at my code http://zzo38computer.org/prog/BytePusher/Munching_Squares.pushem
19:26:53 <gamemanj> Looking at that code, I should definitely be seeing Type-A addresses. Hmm.
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19:36:21 <gamemanj> I can see where the tracer went massively wrong, too - 0x0C's instruction is ld #8 / st #17 / jp #15, so #15 not using lda is a pretty obvious sign that something went wrong...
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19:59:26 <fizzie> EuroTaneb: Are you having some sort of a big thing about the thing?
20:05:59 <gamemanj> And now it's back to sucking an infinite amount of CPU...
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20:56:28 <gamemanj> someone give a "well done" to zzo38, so apparently there's a really large amount of different states that 22 instructions can be in...
20:58:40 <gamemanj> And now I found out the reason it always sucks an infinite amount of CPU - something went horribly wrong with the "union" operator and instead of analysing the code, it runs it.
20:59:21 <gamemanj> And what's more, it runs it in an extremely inefficient fashion since the code is designed to keep an eye on possible values for data.
20:59:42 <gamemanj> So a byte is actually 256 booleans of which one happens to be selected...
21:02:34 <gamemanj> Of course, when the final "write out code that could be used for an AOT" is triggered, it interprets these as immediate value copies - constant addresses - etc...
21:04:06 <gamemanj> So, in essence: 1. My code is a complete failure, 2. zzo38 can do a lot in 22 instructions of BytePusher, 3. My code is a complete failure.
21:10:44 <gamemanj> Yep. I was trying to analyze zzo38's program as a test run. It... didn't work.
21:11:35 <gamemanj> Suffice to say my analyzer would be great for heating up a room.
21:13:06 <gamemanj> Thing is, it has to hit all available states for a byte in case that byte is then later used in a jump instruction.
21:14:01 <myname> what is it supposed to do?
21:14:35 <gamemanj> Essentially convert a BytePusher program's code into a format more suitable for AOT compilation.
21:15:35 <gamemanj> Which means it has to be capable of handling all the various methods of self-modification BytePusher programs use.
21:18:45 <gamemanj> Obviously some things will inevitably result in a complete crash of the compiler (an actual JIT in BytePusher for example)...
21:19:29 <gamemanj> But for reasonable programs, it should be possible.
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21:26:21 <int-e> `learn Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI.
21:26:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'wumpu': Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that are guided by a nefarious AI.
21:29:51 <gamemanj> Hmm. An instruction is always updated with the union - there are always more possibilities, never less, and the system stops when it is equal. So if I can find a way to only use CPU time on new possibilities...
21:30:03 <int-e> gamemanj: I hope you're happy now (re: wumpus)
21:33:39 <int-e> (more reverse psychology?! ;-) )
21:34:30 <int-e> gamemanj: see also http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2009/07/16
21:34:35 <gamemanj> (Do not do what this says: Do not stand on your head singing "I Can't Decide".)
21:34:47 <gamemanj> (Good luck working out the logic on that one)
21:35:43 <gamemanj> But are you standing on your head?
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21:36:10 <int-e> depends on your perspective
21:36:38 <gamemanj> Well, are you in the southern hemisphere? If so, then you are standing on the ceiling with magical boots.
21:36:43 <gamemanj> But you are not standing on your head.
21:38:44 <int-e> I didn't know that M:tG has a few Wumpus cards.
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21:40:23 * gamemanj places down a crooked arrow card (WARNING: PERSON WHO DOES NOT KNOW M:TG RULES IN AREA. EXPECT INCORRECT FAKE PLAY.)
21:44:00 <HackEgo> Hunted Wumpus \ 3G \ Creature -- Beast \ 6/6 \ When Hunted Wumpus enters the battlefield, each other player may put a creature card from his or her hand onto the battlefield. \ MM-U, 8ED-U, 9ED-U, 10E-U
21:44:08 <int-e> would incorrect fake play be accidently valid play?
21:44:31 <gamemanj> no, accidentally valid play would be correct fake play
21:44:46 <gamemanj> incorrect fake play would be incidentally invalid play
21:49:11 <fizzie> I keep hearing the lyrics of this Georgia song like that.
21:49:17 <fizzie> I think it's actually "on your skin" or some-such.
21:49:31 <int-e> is this still going on
21:49:49 <fizzie> 26 competitors, it takes a while.
21:50:47 <fizzie> But they're at #24 already, so it's almost over.
21:51:11 <gamemanj> oh, the ESC (European Screeching Cacophony)?
21:52:01 <fizzie> Although if they keep inviting Australia along, I don't know how long they can retain the name.
21:52:19 <gamemanj> Eh, just make Australia part of the E.U. Problem solved.
21:54:13 <int-e> Isreal and Iceland are in there too
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21:54:49 <int-e> (iceland is geologically interesting, hmm)
21:54:52 <gamemanj> ...so why exactly is it called "Eurovision"???
21:55:05 <fizzie> Well, it's still organized by the EBU.
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21:55:56 <fizzie> (Of course that's just bringing up the question why it's the EBU.)
21:56:22 <int-e> "Eurovision (founded 1954 in Geneva, Switzerland) is part of the European Broadcasting Union" (the song contest goes back to 1956)
21:56:39 <int-e> so normal branding, not a mystery
21:57:05 <fizzie> I'm watching the Urovision Song Contest here.
21:57:22 <gamemanj> int-e: Where'd the "i" come from???
21:57:49 <int-e> gamemanj: I don't know.
21:58:15 <int-e> (some exposure to japanese perhaps)
21:58:17 <gamemanj> If you're trying to find a way to convert my name to "kanji"... good luck, here, have this compass and 5 days of rations, since you'll probably need them as you try (and fail)
22:01:37 <gamemanj> which is nowhere near the correct pronounciation...
22:03:19 <pikhq> For Japanese the standard thing would be transcribing into katakana, not into kanji-used-phonetically.
22:03:26 <pikhq> Unless you're in, like, 1600.
22:04:16 <int-e> Anyway, living without "" will annoy many anglistics majors by making writing a task fraught with significant hardships.
22:05:07 <fizzie> It will also annoy NtHack players, because they can't write a certain useful thing.
22:06:01 <gamemanj> Ironically, linguistic obliviousity is good for usability.
22:08:19 <int-e> It's amazing that transmitting thoughts without that particular glyph works at all.
22:08:48 <gamemanj> Translating fizzi's annotation: It will also annoy NtHack actors, for usability and sanity impacts occur from a lacking of Lbrth.
22:09:05 <int-e> hmm, I could add "using" to that without violating any constraints.
22:09:34 <pikhq> ' prfr jst 'mttng 'll 'f th vwls frm my sntncs; 't sms t wrk wll sns ntbl 'ffrt.
22:10:13 <int-e> It may not look that way but actually it is hard to maintain this way of writing.
22:10:27 <myname> i like how you added the glotal stop
22:11:29 <pikhq> Wll, yh. Wtht 't ths 's 'vn hrdr t 'ndrstnd. :)
22:11:56 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2d 10h 49m 44s ago: Good, good.
22:12:08 <gamemanj> Message I was writing before giving up: Actually, I would confirm in a habitual tone, but it
22:14:06 <gamemanj> Actually, I would confirm in a habitual positionary, but such blockings start to inhibit proper discussion.
22:14:41 <int-e> not bad. *nods in approval*
22:15:10 <gamemanj> I think it got awkward around the "positionary" part.
22:15:43 <int-e> yeah, but "inhibit proper discussion" turned it around, because it stressed the point.
22:16:20 <int-e> so all in all, good job.
22:16:49 <gamemanj> Also, "blockings" should probably be "obstructions"
22:19:09 <int-e> (Actually, using simplistic words allows producing writings of this kind without too much difficulty. But the product usually sounds unnatural.)
22:20:21 <int-e> I'm not falling for that.
22:20:41 <gamemanj> (Or I wouldn't have suggested it)
22:20:58 <gamemanj> Ok, try "output products usually sound unnatural"
22:29:26 <int-e> works for m... this human.
22:30:46 <gamemanj> salutations. this humanoid hails from mars. groupings on mars want humanity in ruins. Mwu. ha. ha. ha.
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22:33:57 <int-e> gamemanj: you could just wait. humanity will soon ruin its own.
22:34:33 <int-e> Why is it so hard to stop doing this...
22:36:01 <gamemanj> You cannot stop. You now slowly turn into an addict... of avoiding a .
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22:36:38 <gamemanj> An addict of avoiding that specific point in char-land.
22:38:03 <int-e> I thought "glyph" was okay.
22:38:30 <gamemanj> Glyph has implications of archaic origin, no?
22:39:15 <int-e> Did you spy that "specific" fail?
22:39:45 <gamemanj> Though it is implications, and "glyph" still works for such purposes.
22:39:55 <gamemanj> I'm making tons of mistakes right now
22:40:05 <int-e> plurals are so innocent
22:40:28 <gamemanj> Rv2."Though it is implications, and "glyph" still works for such a situation."
22:41:13 <int-e> oh, "symbol" would have been perfect.
22:41:47 <int-e> sure it's generic but it has no archaic or arcane connotations.
22:44:42 <moon__> 'std::out_of_range' i hate it when vectors do this >_>
22:49:00 <pikhq> "Glyph" is also a technical term used when discussing text encoding and rendering.
22:49:18 <pikhq> In particular, the Unicode standard uses it extensively when talking about glyphs.
22:49:32 <pikhq> So it's probably a good choice TBH.
22:49:53 <pikhq> Why yes, it encodes U'E'.
22:49:55 <gamemanj> (see, you can tell "e" is evil because "evil" contains "e")
22:50:24 <pikhq> And U'e', and even U'ë'!
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23:43:38 <fizzie> Can't expect much when the Urovision's going on. (Although it's just ending.)
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23:49:46 <HackEgo> !\.´ \ advice \ bin \ canary \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ logs \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ theorems \ tmflry \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
23:50:12 <oerjan> ok that doesn't look entirely messed up
23:52:09 <oerjan> <moon__> but gregor has not been on in ages <-- it's ok me or fizzie can do the killing hth
23:52:28 <oerjan> shachaf: no, just disturbed that someone considered actually installing perl in the sandbox
23:52:54 <shachaf> i had this all ready to go: `` sed -i 's/retired/infamous/' wisdom/oerjan
23:53:15 <oerjan> i suppose _if_ it had been messed up, i could have done some charity work `reverting.
23:53:40 <shachaf> was it not charity work before retirement
23:53:53 <fizzie> shachaf: s/retired/emeritus/ hth
23:54:09 <oerjan> i'm going out on a limb and saying they probably did not succeed.
23:54:40 <oerjan> i think emeritus needs to come last.
23:54:58 <HackEgo> Your retired mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
23:55:05 <fizzie> Yeah, I guess it's more "mysterious evil cackling overlord emeritus".
23:55:56 <shachaf> i didn't realize you had retired from all overlording
23:56:04 <shachaf> i assumed it was just HackEgo janitorial work
23:56:58 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg