00:00:01 impomatic: basically I decided that a population of 170 was too big to store it all as data 00:01:13 hm AMA should be beginning now 00:02:37 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:03:03 https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/4dyros/im_david_morganmar_author_of_darths_droids_and/ 00:06:57 How can I set up NNTP server and client on this Linux? 00:08:10 a1 ... am (b1 ... bn c) = fmap (a1 ... am) (b1 ... bn) c. so if you can handle fmap (a1 ... am) you can handle the former. but the latter is fmap^{\circ n-1} fmap a1 ... am . 00:08:51 *m 00:08:54 sheesh 00:09:30 and thus by induction you can handle any application of anything you can handle. 00:10:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:10:44 I'm formulating an idea for an Esolang that could actually be of use to someone 00:10:50 What idea is it? 00:11:23 zzo38: A language based entirely on lazy-evaluated sequences 00:12:31 zzo38: Maybe sort of like Haskell, but the "Functions always return the same value for the same arguments" requirement would be dropped in favor of "Functions are lazily-evaluated sequences of values" 00:13:32 zzo38: Designing an example 00:13:41 @let dash = dot dot 00:13:42 Defined. 00:14:18 * hppavilion[1] swats shachaf. In the face. With a chair. 00:14:26 What? 00:14:30 Please don't do that. 00:15:31 shachaf: Too late. 00:15:37 zzo38: It's also vectorized. 00:19:23 Here's a speculative example: http://pastebin.com/h3n9xdS6 00:20:01 [x, y, z] creates a new literal lazy 00:20:12 -> passes the previous lazy to the next lazy 00:20:20 {} vectorizes its contents 00:20:33 shachaf: don't complain, it was just an act of chairity 00:20:57 oerjan: Yeah, I even let shachaf keep the chair 00:21:17 I don't appreciate what you're doing and you should stop. 00:22:43 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 00:23:10 Hi, lambda-11235! 00:23:25 hppavilion[1]: Hello 00:23:34 hellambda-1123581321 00:23:54 lambda-11235: Given the latter part of your nick, I'm making a language that may be of interest to you 00:24:11 (That's the weakest reasoning I've ever spewed) 00:24:19 hppavilion[1]: Oh? 00:24:58 All languages are of interest to me. 00:24:59 lambda-11235: It's based entirely on feeding lazy-evaluated sequences into iterators to make NEW lazy-evaluated sequences 00:25:05 lambda-11235: Fair enough 00:25:15 Except Java 00:26:15 lambda-11235: People think Java is a language? 00:27:02 it's a language and a VM and a security model and a browser plugin 00:27:05 and a library 00:27:13 some of these things work better than others 00:29:41 ais523: It's also a drink. I personally only use the VM and the library. 00:32:27 -!- bennyZ has joined. 00:32:35 Truth machine now available @ http://pastebin.com/h3n9xdS6 00:33:42 -!- bennyZ has left. 00:35:55 at this point it's almost worth banning the username fragment, lots of Spanish-speakers using canaima seem to end up here when they shouldn't be for no obvious reason <-- i've been tempted. 00:36:26 yes, I know you discussed it earlier 00:36:33 the redirect-ban actually makes a lot of sense 00:36:41 but you'd need a good description in the target channel 00:37:04 lambda-11235: Given the latter part of your nick, I'm making a language that may be of interest to you 00:37:11 you're making a language based on 11235? 00:37:45 Phantom_Hoover: It was very weak reasoning 00:38:02 are you sure you didn't mean 'former' 00:38:05 Phantom_Hoover: It can construct infinite fibonacci sequences. 00:38:11 Phantom_Hoover: 11235 =! fibonacci 00:38:29 (=! is equals, of course; not !=) 00:38:39 (the "of course" is part of the name) 00:38:52 oh i thought you were referring to the lambda bit 00:39:34 hppavilion[1]: It reminds me a little bit of https://github.com/matz/streem. 00:40:07 Anyway, chemistry homework, gotta do that. 00:40:28 lambda-11235: Really, it's just https://docs.python.org/2/library/itertools.html in the form of a programming language 00:41:38 impomatic: darn, can't stop: http://sprunge.us/QVMB 00:41:48 impomatic: using 32 threads... wee 00:45:02 int-e: have you still got a few ideas how to reduce it further? 00:46:14 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:48:04 no. 00:48:27 I'd need to find a different approach... 00:53:15 And I'm not very hopeful there... to manage to squeeze in more threads I think I'd have to compress the image data, but any decoding I can think of will need significantly more than 2 instructions per pixel (at least 2 extra instructions, I think)... so I'd need more than 50 threads, and that's optimistic?! 00:56:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:12:25 impomatic: apparently you got it done in 3.5 instructions per pixel... but that doesn't change the math significantly :) 01:13:56 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:16:07 My code will display almost any picture, with any number of colours :-) (and I have code which is a few cycles slower which will display any picture). 01:17:44 yeah I've just looked at the 0x2E cycle one 01:17:52 So I know whatever puzzle the author devises, if it has <=48 pixels it can be solved in <=7 cycles. Otherwise it can be solved in <=0x30 cycles 01:18:40 > (0x14-5) * 31 / 170 01:18:41 2.735294117647059 01:19:23 (that's instructions per visible pixel in my code) 01:20:09 (there's some overdrawing and some pixels have to be erased... so it's worse than the optimal 2) 01:20:30 ... 01:20:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:20:52 rdococ: excellent points. I like the middle one best. 01:20:57 haha 01:21:00 ... 01:21:11 int-e: That reminds me of a joke told by Raymond Smullyan. 01:23:24 "232a" in https://archive.org/stream/WhatIsTheNameOfThisBook/What-is-the-Name-of-this-Book_djvu.txt 01:23:35 Hmm, that's not great OCR. 01:25:24 ah 01:25:44 at least there was no drum solo 01:28:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:48 -!- XorSwap has joined. 02:01:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:12:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:17:06 I made some fix of Magic: the Puzzling: Codex but do you think it is more better now? Please tell me in case something is still wrong 02:18:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:20:57 I have decided that, for XML-like data storage, KML is the optimal Markup Language 02:22:11 I think that it can be different whether you want text marked or data marked, too. 02:23:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:24:35 http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/314599/why-is-xml-called-a-language-exactly makes me sad. 02:24:48 zzo38: KML is better no matter what 02:24:58 zzo38: For XML-like uses 02:25:17 Obviously, for mapping data and holding arrays of integers/strings, JSON is better 02:25:25 (Is there some other KML I don't know of?) 02:25:30 For some kind of data, INI or JSON or RDF might also help to form such a data. By having a reasonable kind of XML representation of such a data then you can use XSL with it too, although the XML would not be the ordinary representation of the data 02:25:49 (KML = Knuth Markup Language = TeX's syntax) 02:26:14 (I don't know of any other name for it) 02:26:25 TeX supports varying syntax 02:27:02 It is good if you want to process it with TeX, but only TeX can properly parse it 02:27:20 zzo38: Not PURE TeXian syntax 02:27:25 zzo38: But TeX-like syntax 02:27:27 Why, you ask? 02:27:59 Because multiple bodies on a tag, plus more TeX in properties (not just a string). That's why. 02:28:25 \tag[prop]{body1}{body2} 02:28:45 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:29:16 It does not even require that they are in square brackets; other delimiters are also possible, such as a number terminated by a full stop, or text terminated by a paragraph break. 02:29:20 When they were inventing the name for XML 02:29:35 They voted on the name 02:29:52 The second choice- after XML- was MAGMA: Minimal Architecture for Generalized Markup Applications 02:29:56 zzo38: That's good. 02:33:54 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:36:55 I have written some codes in TeX and with that it is possible to see some example of how it can be done. 02:37:10 It can even include chess notations. 02:39:13 zzo38: Oooh :) 02:39:32 zzo38: I'm trying to think up a new kind of KRF 02:40:16 JSON is for numbers, strings, bools, maps from those to JSON, and arrays of JSON 02:40:25 XML is for text that has certain properties applied to subsegments 02:41:33 Yes that is how JSON and XML are good for. 02:42:07 zzo38: I'm trying to find gaps 02:42:15 zzo38: Areas where a new language would be good 02:42:58 JSON is fairly limited in scope, but XML isn't good for storing any kind of data other than text, really (because it doesn't syntactically support anything /but/ text and tags) 02:43:29 For even simpler data than JSON there is INI, and for a more complicated data there is RDF which is even extensible 02:44:09 I wouldn't say that that's what XML is for. 02:44:23 (Of course there is also tab-separated values is another format) 02:44:24 tswett: What else is it for? 02:44:34 zzo38: *character-separated 02:44:35 I'd say XML is for representing data in a way that's both human-readable and machine-readable. 02:44:45 So it *can* be used to represent pretty much any kind of data. 02:44:50 tswett: Yes, but the data it represents is only really good as text 02:45:02 tswett: You can represent non-textual data, but it isn't syntactically shown 02:45:13 tswett: Yes, although it isn't really very good for any purpose other than text markup I think 02:45:31 hppavilion[1]: what's a type of non-textual data you're thinking of? 02:45:47 tswett: Well, integers for one are bad in XML 02:45:52 15 is a pain 02:46:08 xml assembly? 02:46:14 shachaf: Oooh, nice 02:46:28 I suppose. If you're applying XML to something related to integers, you'd probably just put the digits in there and call it good. 02:46:30 Like, uh... 02:46:32 Yes, JSON does it more easily to write numbers (although it doesn't distinguish between integer and non-integer) 02:46:49 zzo38: True, and that's a flaw on JSON's part 02:46:52 Dammit, JSON. 02:46:54 02:47:15 tswett: "Why are there quotes around a number?" 02:47:18 The problem there is that that XML doesn't indicate that the attributes there *have* to be integers. 02:47:19 In RDF there is representation for any type (and is extensible); the Turtle syntax has a reasonable way to represent both integer and fraction numbers 02:47:27 That too. XML tends to be a lot more verbose than JSON. 02:48:03 tswett: Perhaps we need a JSON++ 02:48:36 JSON represents hashmaps and arrays, XML represents trees... 02:48:52 hppavilion[1]: you know about YAML? 02:48:59 tswett: Oh, right, YAML 02:48:59 And, RDF represent directed graphs 02:49:04 zzo38: Yep 02:49:25 Perhaps a language that represents Rings/Groups/Etc would be nice? 02:49:30 I'm sure mathematicians would love it 02:49:49 Hm... 02:50:08 all evil 02:50:21 Haskell-like syntax is usually perfectly fine for representing mathematical stuff. 02:50:28 tswett: True, true 02:50:51 tswett: What's a good data-y data structure not covered by those? 02:51:20 Labeled directed graphs are sort of like the ultimate data structure. 02:51:21 Tables, Ontologies, Matrices 02:51:30 tswett: Yeah, they are 02:51:36 Though... I guess there are a lot of things that are "sort of like the ultimate data structure". 02:52:10 tswett: Perhaps a strongly-typed language of some sort? One that forces you to obey a format to prevent errors? 02:52:17 Sort of like JSON with a typechecker 02:52:22 TOM 02:52:26 Now I'm salivating. 02:52:54 Strongly-Typed Data Language. 02:53:03 tswett: Yay! 02:53:09 Except call it something punchy. Not STDL. 02:53:44 tswett: The parser would reject the data completely if it doesn't match a strict, dependently-typed format and return None 02:54:00 (or null, or nothing, whatever) 02:54:20 tswett: I think we meant statically-typed 02:54:35 Right, right. 02:54:47 tswett: But it would obviously have dependent types 02:55:04 tswett: ...leading to a second language which expresses the typing 02:55:15 Or better yet, the /same/ language 02:56:24 tswett: What data structures would it support by default? I'm thinking Maps, Objects (named tuples), Lists, Tuples, and Tagged Unions 02:56:30 Yes how are you going to do the ring/group/etc? 02:56:36 I'm thinkin'... 02:56:38 All of them. 02:56:40 zzo38: I discarded that idea 02:56:44 Every data structure that is possible to define. 02:56:51 tswett: So the directed graph then? 02:57:03 Well, that's *one* data structure. 02:57:09 tswett: *fine* 02:57:17 tswett: What will be the *core* data structures? 02:57:41 With Int, Real, Char, Bool, Top, and Void being the builtin scalar data types 02:57:52 How about... the list. 02:58:03 Everything else is just kind of a fancy list. 02:58:10 As Lisp fans can tell you. 02:58:31 A tuple is just a list with a specific length whose elements have specific types. 02:58:49 tswett: I was going to make lists homogenous 02:58:55 tswett: But that actually makes some sense 02:59:08 A map is just a list whose elements are 2-tuples whose first elements are never duplicated, and whose order doesn't matter. 02:59:22 (a, b) = [a, b$] 02:59:37 What's your notation here? 02:59:45 tswett: $ is end-of-list 02:59:53 I suppose it'd be better as [a, b, $] 03:00:07 If $ denotes the end of the list, what is ] for? 03:00:28 tswett: No, [a, b] means "An infinite a, b list" 03:00:38 tswett: $ force the list to end at a specific point 03:00:44 Hmmm. 03:01:03 By the way... 03:01:10 {A: B} = [(A: a, B: b)] where... something 03:01:15 Have a sort of property-based typing. Like... 03:01:18 (... something is valid syntax) 03:01:20 With RDF it is possible to represent a looping list as well as an incomplete list 03:01:23 The most basic type is, say, "thing". 03:01:31 tswett: OK 03:01:41 But you can make more complicated types. Like "list". And "list of integers". 03:01:45 And, and... 03:01:53 "list whose first element is equal to its third element" 03:01:59 tswett: Oooh 03:02:13 "list of integers, where each integer is greater than the last" 03:02:28 tswett: Syntax? 03:02:36 Complicated. 03:03:11 Damn it, what have I gotten myself into? :D 03:03:25 tswett: OK, so the builtin type is "bits", which means "big hunk-o-bits" and the builtin structure is "list of these types" 03:03:45 No, "list of bits" 03:03:53 Hm... 03:04:14 tswett: Ignore my previous 3 messages, the idea sucked 03:04:22 So here's part of my idea. 03:04:54 The basic type is, I guess, "thing". 03:05:09 Now, if you have a "thing", then you don't know anything about it. And since you don't know anything about it, you can't do anything with it. 03:05:25 listOfIncreasingValues :: [Int] (a->0>a->1) forall a 03:05:50 (alternatively, s/->/!!/ 03:05:52 ) 03:06:00 tswett: Go on 03:06:17 Can't it be similar to a set of integers too? 03:06:19 If you have a "list of things", now you know that it's a list, so you can do list stuff with it, like getting its length. 03:06:38 And you can rearrange it, and stuff. But you can't really do anything with the individual things in it. 03:06:48 And... that's how it all goes. 03:06:59 By the way, let me see if I can whip something up. 03:07:22 But even in Haskell you can do stuff if you do not know the type of something, but the only way can be done is to match the same type variable such as if it is (x -> x) then you can use the same input as output type. 03:07:45 zzo38: Yes, we know about polymorphism 03:09:32 data IncreasingList where { Empty :: IncreasingList; Cons :: (x :: Int) -> (xs :: IncreasingList) -> (case xs of { Empty -> (); (y:_) -> x < y }) -> IncreasingList } 03:09:51 So... Haskell doesn't actually let you do that. 03:10:05 But you can do something really similar in Coq. 03:10:18 But don't ask me to; I don't remember the syntax. 03:10:35 Anyway, the idea here is... 03:10:57 "Increasing list of integers" can just be defined as a list of integers, which satisfies the predicate "is increasing". 03:11:14 I have to go eat dinner 03:11:36 What is if you have define a set and then you will make the sorted list from such set 03:12:11 But an alternative is to sort of weave it into the definition of your list, so to speak. 03:12:20 OK 03:12:41 hppavilion[1]: see you later. 03:15:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:37:39 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:44:42 I have implemented Black-Johansen in JavaScript now 03:45:31 `unidecode 𓂸 𓂹 𓂺 03:46:05 [U+130B8 EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D052] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+130B9 EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D052A] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+130BA EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH D053] 03:46:41 What is Black-Johansen? 03:46:41 Do you know Egyptian writing? 03:46:59 shachaf: An algorithm for optimizing text encoding in Z-machine 03:47:29 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:47:47 (The algorithm is made up by myself and by oerjan) 03:49:07 I figured that part. 03:52:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:52:10 The text is encoded as a series of 5-bit Z-characters, involving three shift states. Zero always represents a space; 1 and 2 and 3 are "frequent words"; 4 and 5 set the shift state, and 6 to 31 are emit the character. The initial shift state is 0, where 4 means temporary shift to state 1 and 5 means temporary shift to state 2. In state 1, 4 permanent shifts to 1 and 5 permanent shifts to 0. In state 2, 5 permanent shifts to 0 and 4 permanent shift 03:52:48 Each character has its own preferred shift state, for which it is part of that character set. In addition, Z-character 6 of state 2 means the next two Z-characters are interpreted as an ASCII code and it then emits an arbitrary ASCII character. 03:54:03 Infocom designed this but then presumably they did not figure out how to encode text in an efficient way using this, so they just omitted the use of permanent shifts and used only temporary shifts in their compiler. 03:57:34 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:58:15 Shift state 0 contains lowercase letters, shift state 1 contains uppercase letters, while shift state 2 contains the ASCII escape, line break, followed by 0123456789.,!?_#'"/\-:() 03:58:48 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 03:59:02 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:59:46 Possibly by this you can understand what strings [4,13,10,17,17,20,5,19,0,4,28,20,23,17,9,5,20] and [5,5,9,10,11,12,13,6,2,8,14,15,16,17,8] represent. 04:03:11 @oeis 4 13 10 04:03:13 Sum of proper divisors minus the number of proper divisors of n: a(n) = sigm... 04:03:32 They aren't any mathematical sequences; I described the encoding above 04:07:09 The second example above may be a bit silly but a better example of a text where Black-Johansen will encode more efficiently would be "Copyright (c) 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986 Infocom, Inc. All rights reserved." Using a permanent shift would encode the numbers much more efficiently than temporary shifts 04:10:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:11:51 tswett: Here's a piece of software that needs to be invented 04:11:57 tswett: Scripted Documents 04:12:15 (But ones that you edit in a mortal-friendly way) 04:12:47 So... like MS Word? 04:12:57 And Excel? 04:13:06 tswett: MS word isn't scripted usually 04:13:09 AFAIK 04:13:17 Right. 04:13:19 But it *can* be. 04:13:37 tswett: Also, Excel is a good example, but PowerPoint is a better one 04:13:44 tswett: It can? 04:13:50 ...I'm pretty sure. 04:13:56 Excel can definitely be scripted. 04:14:02 tswett: No, Word 04:14:16 I'm pretty sure Word can be scripted. 04:14:27 tswett: Huh. Is scripting Word user-friendly? 04:14:39 Well, you need to be able to use the scripting language. 04:14:52 tswett: Oh 04:15:01 And it's not like it's a particularly bad language or anything. 04:15:31 tswett: I'm thinking something like "Select word -> Right click -> Make Button", which opens an "Events" window 04:15:43 Then in events, "Connect -> Action -> Show Image" 04:16:21 Lots and lots of people have put lots and lots of effort into creating a programming system that can be used by people who don't already know programming. 04:16:52 tswett: Fair enough 04:17:01 tswett: Do you know HTML5, out of curiosity? 04:17:31 tswett: Because I kind of want to make a Free Software Online office suite 04:17:38 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 04:18:10 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:18:39 Kinda. 04:19:16 tswett: Any idea what I should call it? 04:19:31 Fsoos. Nah, that's probably not a good name. 04:19:36 hppavilion[1]: hey, let me ask you something. 04:19:42 sebbu: Go on 04:19:43 Do you want to start a project and see it through to completion? 04:19:48 Whoops, tswett 04:19:51 tswett: I really do 04:20:00 tswett: I even wrote a short essay on it for school at some point 04:20:12 tswett: But I am genuinely terrible at focusing 04:20:28 You'll get better at it. 04:20:41 I hope so 04:21:40 tswett: I'll go with Zodiac Office, because "Zodiac" is one of my stock names 04:22:12 What sort of project do you think you might want to do? 04:22:20 I'll give the word processor the working name "VomitWordsOntoScreen" 04:23:10 Many of the ideas you've described are the sort of thing a person may spend ten years on. 04:23:27 Do you have any ideas that are, say, weekend-sized? 04:24:31 Today's what if is awesome 04:24:46 tswett: ...Nope. 04:24:54 Though that's probably what I should do 04:25:16 (on the topic of What If): Especially the diagram of wing shapes 04:27:38 I'll try making a tiny calculator with a Qt-based GUI 04:27:49 That seems more weekend-sized 04:27:53 I'll be sure it's horrible 04:29:34 That sounds like a good idea. 04:29:46 Prefix notation, because it's easier to parse AND nobody knows how to use it 04:30:49 All integers must be expressed in Dozenal, because it is clearly the superior system 04:31:45 (That's easy to do in python) 04:44:16 OK, got the backend working for +-*/ 04:45:03 * Sgeo has successfully written something similar to Haskell's reflection library in RUst: 04:45:04 https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/3d7f8449ea5ba136038a9c677e744004 04:51:31 We will need the ability to manipulate the TV guide of the cable box by the use of SQL codes. 04:56:22 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:01:15 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 05:01:33 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:02:58 [wiki] [[Pyth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46761&oldid=46231 * 86.180.125.40 * (-2) /* Quine */ 05:04:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:17:00 -!- centrinia has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:30:57 tswett: What is the minimal database? 05:33:58 tswett: Assuming that all querying must be done in the language, and data produced cannot be filtered any more beyond that, but that you want a technically-usable DB 05:35:49 -!- centrinia has joined. 05:43:15 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:47:59 -!- XorSwap has joined. 05:59:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: To sleep, perchance to dream of, hm, bears maybe?). 06:06:20 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:29:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:49:15 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:55:15 <\oren\> the minimal database is usually implemented as "a folder full of CSV files" 06:55:28 <\oren\> or sometimes "full of JSON files" 06:56:31 <\oren\> in C, it is often "a file containing arbitrary fwritten structs" 06:59:11 minimal database is also often implemented via using the filename to store the value of one field 06:59:18 thus using the filesystem as a hash table 06:59:25 <\oren\> yeah that too 06:59:51 but really, if you have nonrelational data, you can't do much better than a hash table for your database anyway 07:00:17 it's relational queries that databases are very good at, that and situations where you can't fit the whole thing in memory or you need to handle power loss without data loss 07:02:45 Here's a weird reddit rule 07:02:59 [X-POST/r/name-of-this-subreddit] flag must be in title when reposting OC from this sub. 07:05:08 [wiki] [[Element]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46762&oldid=46440 * Kc kennylau * (+49) /* Interpreter */ 07:07:41 <\oren\> AARGH why doesn't ksp have a "dump fuel" button 07:08:23 <\oren\> I need to fly in circles a bunch before I can land this damn thinf 07:08:56 <\oren\> either that or be really really good at flying 07:13:12 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:29:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:30:29 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 07:33:52 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:42:22 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 07:48:07 save.H4X 07:59:49 I've invented a new buzzword-that-sounds-good-but-is-actually-horribly-awful 08:02:16 (It's in the same category as "Self-modifying code", "Java Applet", and "think outside the tesseract") 08:02:22 I call it: "Metascripting" 08:02:42 whoa whoa whoa 08:02:46 Remember Spellbreaker? 08:03:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:05:15 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:05:49 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 08:05:53 Ugh. Forbes is evil because they block you if you have an adblocker. 08:07:47 I think that we should send some legalbabble to them referencing nonexistant legislation so they'll get rid of it 08:10:03 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:10:13 Who is we? 08:17:15 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 08:20:35 I'm going to (attempt to) read Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity 08:20:43 * hppavilion[1] is many 08:20:47 shachaf: ^ 08:22:03 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:35:38 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 08:40:01 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:30:11 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:34:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:34:42 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:35:48 -!- me2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:49:44 -!- rdococ_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:50:54 -!- rdococ has joined. 09:54:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:03:02 -!- me2 has joined. 10:25:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:30:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 10:34:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:35:10 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:55:20 -!- S1 has joined. 11:00:14 -!- S1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:13 -!- S1 has joined. 11:58:53 Is brainfuck's overflow behaviour undefined in the C sense? That is, can a compiler optimize a program on the assumption that the program never over or underflows? 12:02:23 I think it's implementation-defined, if you want to follow the C standard's terminology. 12:03:43 Many implementations just use unsigned char cells. So +[+] will terminate. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants distinguished between "wrapping" and "non-wrapping"... 12:03:53 -!- Reece` has joined. 12:05:55 The closest we come to actual undefined behavior is the case of stepping off the tape to the left. (but the brainfuck interpreter on anagol has the source code immediately to the left of the data and many programs submitted there rely on that fact...) 12:07:41 -!- gremlins has joined. 12:07:47 And I believe that there are some implementations that have a two-sided unbounded tape. 12:08:57 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:18:39 -!- Reece` has joined. 12:20:02 -!- gremlins has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:27:59 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:29:17 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:36:14 -!- lleu has joined. 14:19:09 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 14:21:36 -!- boily has joined. 14:28:39 @metar CYQB 14:28:40 CYQB 091300Z 31008KT 290V350 30SM SCT038 BKN076 M04/M11 A2972 RMK SC3AC2 SLP071 14:28:45 -!- Reece` has joined. 14:43:33 -!- iconmaster has joined. 14:54:58 -!- Elronnd has quit (Quit: Let's jump!). 14:59:04 int-e: I generally write implementations with a two-sided unbounded tape 14:59:17 -!- Elronnd has joined. 15:01:06 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 15:16:44 -!- iconmaster has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:23:03 -!- centrinia has joined. 15:34:48 int-e: so anagol brainfuck is in principle self-modifying? 15:40:00 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 15:41:11 -!- Kaynato has joined. 15:42:01 -!- gremlins has joined. 15:44:09 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:44:13 there are quines. there are quine chains. are there pseudo-quine-chains that gradually evolve into an interpreter for the pseudo-quine-chain? 15:51:27 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:54:00 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:04:02 FireFly: yes it is 16:09:42 Interesting 16:28:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GUILD CHICKEN). 16:48:12 -!- earendel has joined. 17:31:03 -!- yorick___ has changed nick to yorick. 18:08:27 -!- centrinia has joined. 18:09:45 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:00 -!- earendel has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 18:54:42 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 18:55:21 -!- carado has joined. 18:56:15 -!- acertain has joined. 19:10:16 -!- tromp_ has joined. 19:13:07 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 19:14:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:26:43 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:52:51 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:56:21 Heathrow's (post-security) restaurant had the silliest knives I've ever seen. 19:56:54 They looked more like spoons than knives, the "pointy" end was entirely round. 19:57:07 What kind of food do they have? 19:57:09 Like a flat, narrow spoon. 19:57:34 Depending the kind of food it might be suitable, but it might not be suitable because in general that are no good you should need a proper metal knife 19:58:01 Just... British pub stuff. Burgers. Chicken breast. I think they might have something steak-like, but I'm not sure. 19:58:16 Could be they have real knives for special purposes. 20:01:52 I have been in a few British pub in Victoria, BC 20:06:10 I've been to a butterfly garden in Victoria, BC. 20:09:49 I've been to two British pubs in the past two days 20:09:54 Both in Britain 20:11:45 -!- tromp_ has joined. 20:13:00 -!- earendel has joined. 20:15:30 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: gtg). 20:16:39 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:18:28 Wow. In M:tG, the last ability of Skullbriar, the Walking Grave looks REALLY strange to me. 20:29:03 -!- p34k has joined. 20:30:32 Yes it does seem like strange, but can be worked. 20:35:02 zzo38: I wonder if it could matter for that rule whether counters of the same name are distinguishable, but it doesn't seem so. 20:35:53 I think they are not distinguishable just multiples of the same name or different name 20:43:25 I wonder why they didn't just make the ability such that it keeps the counters in the graveyard and stack but not in exile. 20:44:24 Or maybe so taht it keeps the counters in the gravyard and stack and command zone, but not in exile. 20:45:37 If it loses that ability then it will not keep the counters 20:47:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:50:34 What was the way again to put a card into a library as a consequence of mana payment during a spell, that is, not at trigger speed? 20:51:32 Not just reorder your library that is, but put something to a library from another zone. 20:52:28 Ah yes, Darksteel Colossus or similar abilities. 20:59:12 If I play a Jayemdae Tome and during playing, pay for it by sacrificing a Darksteel Colossus on Ashnod's Altar, and get unlucky with shuffling, can Jayemdae Tome cause me to try to draw the Colossus, which then doesn't do anything because it can't move? 21:02:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:02:44 Have you guys heard that the US Congress is trying to ban citizens from using impossible-to-break encryption? 21:03:26 I have not heard of that, but would not be surprised of such thing 21:04:04 zzo38: I was told by a teacher 21:04:16 zzo38: I have a feeling it'll lead to a new field of cryptography 21:04:35 "Impossible-to-break, but doesn't see like it on the surface. Also, make a billion of these" 21:04:36 what 21:04:53 if you mean steganography then that's a thing yeah 21:05:10 encryption with plausible deniability 21:06:09 Phantom_Hoover: Yep 21:06:17 Phantom_Hoover: That's likely what would happen 21:06:51 in the uk it's already a crime to refuse to give an encryption key to the police 21:06:54 -!- acertain has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:07:26 Phantom_Hoover: What if you don't have the key because of the way things were set up? 21:07:48 This guideline M:tG is using that any real-world mammal needs to have a narrow creature type approperiate for its species is crazy. They have tons of creature types for mammals that are used only on a few cards. 21:07:50 then that'd be your defence in court 21:08:10 but if you have some actual means of accessing the data then you're compelled to give that up 21:09:11 Mole is the latest one. They can't just add a "rodent" type because there had been rats and since ancient times. 21:15:29 Is there a way to execute JS in-browser as a sandbox? 21:15:47 Essentially, to tell it "You may only use these functions as builtins" 21:16:12 Preferably (almost necessarily) where "these functions" can be a mix of builtins and custom functions? 21:17:02 Ok, so now the rules don't specify any canonical way to determine which side of double-face card is the front face. This is horrible. 21:17:34 Looks like firefox has evalInSandbox 21:18:32 And they're caught unaware by it too, just look at this: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=410049 shows the back face on the left side, unlike for most double-faced cards. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA HOIST BY THEIR OWN PETARD! 21:29:03 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:31:50 zzo38: if you try to download and save the Comprehensive rules from wizards.com , be VERY careful, because the url has the date typoed 21:32:05 so after I downloaded, it didn't sort as if it were the latest version 21:33:03 -!- acertain has joined. 21:34:19 -!- Reece` has joined. 21:35:03 -!- gremlins has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:49:18 I am using the HTML version so don't need to download directly from Wizards of the Coast 21:50:59 Correction. I was looking at the wrong version of the rules, because of this date thing, and the rules do specify which face is the front, by naming both styles of icons, but Westvale Abbey still seems buggy in Gatherer. 22:02:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:11:34 -!- tromp_ has joined. 22:16:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:16:40 It is possible in Node.js to execute a sandbox context but it is necessary to be careful by enabling strict mode and removing the default prototype of the sandbox context object as well as doing other stuff 22:19:27 -!- Reece` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:23:49 You should also define any function needed inside of the sandbox 22:24:12 zzo38: and set memory limits and other stuff I guess 22:26:43