< 1459296028 667210 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait are there still two me's? < 1459296052 168356 :oren!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1459296054 958647 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup! < 1459296090 623365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you ship Google Apps and work? < 1459296093 672096 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1459296097 109611 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget, how do you make the bot pastebin an output? < 1459296102 722037 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. < 1459296111 94761 :oren!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com NICK :\oren\ < 1459296115 903565 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1459296133 954633 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's this site by an ardent fan ;-) http://www.cloudatacost.com/ <-- . o O ( is anyone keeping esolangs.org and HackEgo backups ) < 1459296207 347878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm keeping wiki backups on occasion, but not as frequently as I should be < 1459296469 95180 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1459296487 254699 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin/*ello* < 1459296488 134388 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/hello \ bin/hello-world-in-any-language < 1459296492 958128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not keeping logs backups though < 1459296496 952015 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: no hth < 1459296512 21284 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, `` ... | paste < 1459296532 824651 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls bin | paste < 1459296533 571791 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the logs are on the same server. < 1459296536 48515 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.20204 < 1459296545 806313 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they < 1459296560 712330 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language python < 1459296561 669585 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxERR < 1459296567 231816 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there* we go < 1459296609 878422 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language perl < 1459296610 538195 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296616 284955 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language c < 1459296617 987726 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, Segfault! < 1459296627 452951 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language php < 1459296628 210356 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296640 504642 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent answer. < 1459296649 746188 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit opinionated < 1459296659 620563 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language salmon < 1459296660 218785 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296665 408148 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language fortran < 1459296666 86903 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296673 56487 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language pascal < 1459296673 678186 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296676 267109 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone needs to fill these in < 1459296677 851779 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language brainfuck < 1459296678 637995 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERR Tape end reached < 1459296685 86943 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language befunge < 1459296685 789256 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296691 560059 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language funge98 < 1459296692 204360 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296694 401610 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1459296695 315656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not a very good hello world in any language < 1459296702 731965 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language french < 1459296703 471226 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296712 382487 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, the simpler version was better. < 1459296719 867770 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :the languages are in hw/$languagename < 1459296725 466570 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language kayak < 1459296726 888686 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your language does not exist < 1459296751 780837 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So today I found out that our internally used programming language is not the company's IP. < 1459296767 677472 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "Wello!" > hw/php < 1459296769 556147 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1459296772 413419 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're just the only people who've ever used it < 1459296774 471092 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language php < 1459296775 298345 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wello! < 1459296779 132313 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'TypERR, expected "str", got "char *[]"' > hw/pascal < 1459296782 232880 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1459296814 788863 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello-world-in-any-language pascal < 1459296816 902059 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypERR, expected "str", got "char *[]" < 1459296833 315951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There's an automatic weekly mirroring of everything onto the box to the right of my feet, an automated weekly incremental backup of *that* to the box to the left of my feet, and every now and then I swap the disk in *that* box with a copy I have in a bank vault in Finland. < 1459296844 598881 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: since when is char *[] a pascal type < 1459296849 219718 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1459296854 696276 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what happens when you turn around < 1459296863 803956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: All the data is lost. < 1459296865 209471 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie++ < 1459296866 895166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: since when is "SyntaxERR" an output printed by python < 1459296872 503698 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://web.archive.org/web/20140105015657/http://salmonpl.net/ < 1459296884 356339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Of course by asking about it you've pretty much assured it all goes spectacularly wrong somehow. < 1459296891 959373 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma fizzie < 1459296892 127491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie has a karma of 16 < 1459296895 33001 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma < 1459296895 163369 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 13 < 1459296897 200449 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1459296900 48131 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma < 1459296900 178487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 0 < 1459296911 96475 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1459296930 1402 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hello < 1459296931 380722 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Hello < 1459296938 15781 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello, world < 1459296938 639839 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hello,: not found < 1459296943 557015 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello world < 1459296944 119148 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1459296963 309797 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma < 1459296963 440227 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 0 < 1459296975 553444 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@jemima < 1459296975 685391 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1459296977 829036 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma oren < 1459296977 959290 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren has a karma of 0 < 1459296979 629029 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1459296979 759411 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. < 1459296984 964874 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :@listmodules < 1459296985 95250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where < 1459296986 314629 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your backup system explanation somehow manages to be simultaneously reassuring and worrying < 1459296992 663326 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@alarma < 1459296992 793541 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 0 < 1459296999 9413 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@macarena < 1459296999 139690 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1459297010 266556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "every now and then" is only about once a year or so (since Finland isn't so accessible), so there's quite a lot that could get lost if this place burns down *and* CloudAtCost goes under (and nobody else has a more up-to-date backup). < 1459297029 52484 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone else than just ais523 was fetching the public dump, though. < 1459297029 853508 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ \oren\ < 1459297050 172683 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma+ oren < 1459297056 365010 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma \oren\ < 1459297056 495365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\ has a karma of 0 < 1459297069 661351 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​\oren\ now has 1 karma. < 1459297074 485886 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren now has 1 karma. < 1459297080 53523 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma < 1459297080 183917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 0 < 1459297085 79693 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUG < 1459297091 243779 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`karma < 1459297098 868407 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ has 5 karma. < 1459297122 971365 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: ? <-- i recommend paying attention to the rest of the discussion hth (which would also have saved you the recent paste) < 1459297138 174427 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing the disk in the bank vault is empty, and gets regularly swapped with another empty disk < 1459297144 922332 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile the backups are made to one of the boxes at fizzie's feet, except it hasn't actually managed to write something for several years due to a stray dry-run flag < 1459297168 619942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plausible. < 1459297196 214167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mirroring is likely to work, in the sense that I've listed the files and they look reasonable. Of course the contents could all be zeros. < 1459297246 273924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. There are a number of daily fetches of the public wiki dump, from different addresses and with different user agents. < 1459297293 206820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One "Wget/1.16.1 (linux-gnu)", Java versions 1.4.1_04, 1.6.0_04 and 1.8.0_71 and zsync/0.6.2. < 1459297335 473394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :90-ish unique IP addresses in approximately February and March. It's a popular file. < 1459297361 708661 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking the zsync at least is someone deliberately setting it up, rather than a random scraper. < 1459297406 623403 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially since it's from the same address at approximately the same time every day.) < 1459297442 945026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I zsync it randomly when I remember and am on a high-bandwidth connection < 1459297492 161030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The daily one comes from a hacksoc.org address. < 1459297506 271988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is that York thing. < 1459297519 168651 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks askew at Taneb
< 1459297645 697450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The public dump doesn't include some things, like the user accounts or images, but it's probably relatively good from the "preserve the achievements of humankind" perspective. < 1459297745 582449 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, it's "--uploads --include-files"; maybe it does in fact include images as well. < 1459297755 608402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how those go in the XML. Best not to ask questions. < 1459297849 694430 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably not a very image-heavy site < 1459297887 552718 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( --include-passwords ) < 1459297946 308130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: the article at at exactly the halfway point of the XML dump is the one for the Thue-Morse sequence. (From an old, old version; I don't actually regularly mirror that since I mirror everything else.) < 1459297971 193055 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm hosting a backed up copy at my server now https://em.slashem.me/esolang.xml < 1459297984 205893 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the worst possible choice for a shell prompt? < 1459297994 437284 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the second half the first in reverse twh < 1459298003 631770 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: "#", when you're not root < 1459298006 79230 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must be a meaningless character string of length no greater than 5, and must not be the null string < 1459298020 247366 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: "WARNING! Doing this operation on a mounted disk can lead to disk corruption! Continue (y/n)? " < 1459298033 991246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's too long < 1459298040 744108 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1459298045 55542 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, meaningful < 1459298067 165651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I used "007" as part of a prompt in an INTERCAL-related project < 1459298076 112075 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it needs to be < 1459298081 999270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because % is commonly used as a shell character and % is called a "double-oh-seven" by the INTERCAL docs < 1459298084 450276 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "x := " is pretty bad, because it implies that you're setting a variable < 1459298104 292982 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assuming answer of !! to mean yes. Continuing..." and then your prompt < 1459298107 112830 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about four spaces? < 1459298128 389297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's meaningless, nonempty, and would be very confusing < 1459298130 291295 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is OK < 1459298147 487144 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It provides visual indent from normal command prompting < 1459298167 647716 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, having just tried setting my prompt to four spaces, it's *very* confusing < 1459298173 230539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about [%d] , where the %d is a number that increments with every command input? < 1459298174 923846 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: How? < 1459298182 189973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the worst prompts I've seen in practice < 1459298195 323833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, the general idea is, I'm not sure if any were that /precisely/) < 1459298196 428954 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, actually < 1459298198 18560 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll let that through, even though it could be > 5 characters < 1459298205 119170 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty alright < 1459298212 662948 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It does seem a little useless < 1459298216 709631 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :my zsh prompt includes "%h", which is how many commands have been typed < 1459298224 389184 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does increment with every command < 1459298249 223754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you could roll back round to 1 from 999, thus confusing people who expected it to be mod-1000 < 1459298257 681233 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In[%d]:= " so that you can pretend you're in Mathematica all the time. < 1459298267 175201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Mathematica is one of the progams I was thinking of < 1459298269 163147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(perl -d was the other) < 1459298295 922401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Scheme like that. < 1459298310 519243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken Scheme's prompt is "#;%d> " with that notation. < 1459298334 242192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's some syntax for referring back to previous inputs, as is the case in Mathematica. < 1459298364 960106 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459298366 71454 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25s is one of the more controversial disambiguation pages < 1459298386 223390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look like it from looking at it < 1459298387 949205 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1459298397 117089 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but have a look at the talk page, which is much, much longer than the page istelf < 1459298399 193263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*itself < 1459298407 639292 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1459298427 590678 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the URL... < 1459298863 63260 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the worst prompt would be a short offensive word < 1459298871 151053 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of several, but it's not nice to say them in channel < 1459298883 839810 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ^ < 1459298889 459154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1459298938 193171 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Fair enough < 1459298965 642023 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or "php> " < 1459298996 240604 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 characters exactly < 1459299040 586062 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not technically correct, since php -a actually gives "php > ", but eh < 1459299048 967244 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :First you say you're not going to say any offensive words, then you come up with that. < 1459299068 815890 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I know, my filth knows no bounds < 1459299134 581588 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps just "$ rm " < 1459299144 564036 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It resembles a command < 1459299148 275159 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's scary < 1459299172 46576 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's meaningful to some people, so... < 1459299192 170971 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the absolute worst command prompt is one which executes a harmful command and prints the exit code. < 1459299220 589988 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What's The Absolute Worst harmful command though? < 1459299238 985970 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably rm -rf ~ followed by a forkbomb, but infectious < 1459299246 124852 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, the actual prompt says 1, but the prompt code is like "rm -rf /; echo $?" < 1459299246 850621 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To both computers AND brains) < 1459299300 608517 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think a prompt that is just the string "rm -rf ~" would be fun for a laugh < 1459299431 388305 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Does *nix have hidden files? < 1459299443 82161 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a historical accident, yes < 1459299449 333905 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Good < 1459299456 761516 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: The meanest program you could possibly write: < 1459299466 237714 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One with identical output to "rm -rf ~" < 1459299476 862556 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: But instead of deleting files, it hides them < 1459299485 148653 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically < 1459299486 733778 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm doesn't have output < 1459299495 277196 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you use rm -i < 1459299497 862653 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $PS1 < 1459299500 685957 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: it does if you run it with -v < 1459299500 993151 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[\033[38;5;39m\]\D{%Y%b%d%a%T%Z} \W$\[\033[0m\ < 1459299506 533196 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: Oh, true < 1459299509 70241 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :scp -r ~ /tmp/.homedir < 1459299520 232517 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: OK, then identical to rm -rfiv ~ < 1459299541 40155 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, not v < 1459299545 316299 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, v < 1459299545 605124 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :v is version, isn't it < 1459299546 591953 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :not i < 1459299558 497600 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fish prompt: http://sprunge.us/KWaR < 1459299573 51262 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: -f overrides -i < 1459299577 788751 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will prompt you < 1459299580 54804 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What does -i do? < 1459299581 873767 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that isn't what you want < 1459299583 466020 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interactive < 1459299587 970592 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :v will just print < 1459299590 26155 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Oh < 1459299593 165992 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :and scp -r will mimic that < 1459299593 724978 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: Ah < 1459299605 749484 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scp < 1459299620 676859 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rm -rf / < 1459299625 765505 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: scp: not found < 1459299626 700795 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on `/' \ rm: use --no-preserve-root to override this failsafe < 1459299629 794700 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: Yes, that hasn't been tried before < 1459299683 235168 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: We need an `scp that is basically a massive http://www.scp-wiki.net/ reference < 1459299720 557896 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a /r/writingprompts post that linked there but I still don't understand < 1459299731 378879 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is scp aside from secure/ssh copy? < 1459299744 196029 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: Secure Contain Protect < 1459299749 871565 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: It's a 4chan thing, originally < 1459299763 946572 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elronnd: It's basically psychological horror written in scientific prose < 1459299765 234445 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :secure containment...of what? < 1459299771 603118 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1459299773 83912 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have an א in my prompt, but multi-term didn't like that < 1459299850 331800 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1459299854 549250 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a custom shell < 1459299858 284740 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want a new syntax < 1459299879 110595 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been using fish for years. I think the syntax is much nicer :) < 1459299879 241329 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a draft text adventure game shell somewhere... < 1459299895 611665 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that wrok? < 1459299897 948511 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ro/or < 1459299898 260586 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's this https://github.com/chrisdone/hell < 1459300285 476692 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof Golf < 1459300294 356379 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove Pythagoras in the fewest number of characters possible < 1459300372 25223 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: http://pastebin.ca/3422401 < 1459300658 250759 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided to make a golfing language whynot < 1459300683 397416 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Oh, boy < 1459300695 630505 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I mean "Oh, boily" < 1459300791 733276 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: "Oh, boyly" < 1459300798 49093 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I can prove the Pythagorean theorem in 3 characters if I can use a picture < 1459300806 338634 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: You can't < 1459300824 612998 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: You have to use a golfing proof assistant < 1459300843 301647 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Feel free to invent one, so long as it doesn't have a "prove pythagoras" instruction < 1459300860 323613 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do comments count against the character count? < 1459300883 780769 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: They do not, but they're a pain in the ass for checkers. Preferably include both a commented and uncommented version. < 1459300899 491127 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you /may/ have a prove pythagoras instruction, but I'll also ask you to prove something else that I'm yet to come up with after, in the same assistant with /no/ changes < 1459300929 208176 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also "t a^2 + b^2 = c^2", where t is "trust me" < 1459301045 570674 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I think I'm going to reimplement this in fish. I think it's possible. I really like the idea < 1459301059 237309 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: ... dammit < 1459301080 673034 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: it was a hack I made for fun many years ago. I'm still fond of the descriptions :D < 1459301099 297167 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1459301101 822801 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1459301153 814040 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quinthellopia < 1459301158 581878 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonne nuit! < 1459301170 688728 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonnenuitopia < 1459301178 546835 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CANDLE CHICKEN < 1459301463 139262 :pdxleif!znc@ec2-54-68-166-10.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1459301516 704657 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1459301551 31873 :pdxleif!~pdxleif@ec2-54-68-166-10.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1459301555 183479 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This %s talk page is amazing < 1459301694 453227 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1459301839 545202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to statistics, %s is the 993rd most visited page this month, on a par with World Trade Center and Hydrogen." < 1459301852 737277 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lie, n.: < 1459301852 876766 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric : A very poor substitute for the truth, but the only one < 1459301853 7034 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :discovered to date. < 1459301861 572192 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Night, Folks! < 1459301896 241499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1459302367 524112 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How could a stack-based language be made type-safe? < 1459302394 74297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: look into row polymorphism < 1459302448 968026 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Column polymorphism probably wouldn't hurt, either < 1459302496 728550 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't get it < 1459302525 921033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: so the idea is you have a function that requires specific types for the top few elements of the stack, but is polymorphic on the ones below < 1459302541 938687 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah. < 1459302551 823960 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And you can typecheck this at compile time? < 1459302555 467763 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I see it < 1459302568 292559 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1459302580 588121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: with type annotations, probably < 1459302586 591698 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK < 1459302588 240533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type inference is likely undecidable though < 1459302704 290399 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah :/ < 1459302759 910263 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is a dependently-typed shell at all a good idea? I'm sure it'd be useful for /something/ < 1459302782 987891 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: many people say powershell is a bad idea < 1459302793 957734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is much less precisely typed than a dependently typed shell would be < 1459302800 769870 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK < 1459303345 524656 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459303387 334310 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was this guy (c. diggins, was it?) around here and elsewhere a few years ago who tried to make a stack language with type inference. i think he got somewhat stuck with the "polymorphic on the ones below" part. it gets quite tricky if you try to give a type to something like underload's ^ which calls the function on top of the stack. and much worse if you try to call a function _twice_ with the st < 1459303393 337565 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack possibly different... < 1459303420 769888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I strongly suspect that it's impossible to infer for the same reason that rank-3 type inference is in general impossible < 1459303429 182087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may work with explicit type annotations though < 1459303459 491510 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if you have a general idea what your program _should_ do, you can probably annotate it enough. < 1459303634 172346 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could bolt a type system onto APL < 1459303654 669314 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a stronger one, anyway < 1459303672 745427 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@186-26-169-88.dyn.movilnet.com.ve JOIN :#esoteric < 1459303755 559139 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1459303977 351667 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, stunned that Dyalog charges 1275 GBP for a 64-bit license :o < 1459303977 941408 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-yhmgddogjhjwqlts QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459304004 293218 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@186-26-169-88.dyn.movilnet.com.ve QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459304386 465188 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459304724 892670 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1459304733 585708 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack-Based Logic Programming? < 1459304735 664390 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@186-26-169-88.dyn.movilnet.com.ve JOIN :#esoteric < 1459304777 151072 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wait, how would row polymorphism deal with loops, assuming an imperative SBL? < 1459304794 216374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: if the loops don't change the size of the stack (which they often don't) there's no issue < 1459304805 697003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they do, they'd need to leave a predictable repeating pattern of types on the stack < 1459304813 900913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might need to use some sort of polymorphic recursion technique < 1459304816 89453 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah? < 1459304835 317593 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So you need a functional language for row polymorphism then? < 1459304850 196276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you define "functional"? < 1459304872 98215 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Based on pure or mostly-pure functions < 1459304877 611199 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As opposed to state change < 1459304889 267690 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you'd pass the stack around instead of just modifying it < 1459304897 672834 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd barely be stack based at that point though < 1459305065 294544 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459305120 874961 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to pass the stack around as long as there's just one at all times. < 1459305871 133967 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stack of functors < 1459306305 440236 :espes__!~espes@205.185.120.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459306397 699829 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@186-26-169-88.dyn.movilnet.com.ve QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1459306560 399116 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@186-26-169-88.dyn.movilnet.com.ve JOIN :#esoteric < 1459306657 161385 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-admmsmqeejkcgnxk JOIN :#esoteric < 1459307496 973078 :spygame!773f8e03@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.119.63.142.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459307630 942623 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That might actually work 0.0 < 1459307740 895192 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally so < 1459307852 656103 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... < 1459307867 4554 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Does λ-calculus support functors? < 1459307951 982660 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: not directly. also this was a category theory pun. < 1459307961 877820 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I figured that < 1459307971 158187 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1459307978 657357 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The instructions in a stack-o-functors language would be natural transformations, would they not? < 1459308019 438709 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone say stack? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_(mathematics) < 1459308061 394313 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD! BAD PROOFTECHNIQUE! < 1459308077 39354 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: hm i think a tuple of functors can be thought of as a functor, so probably. < 1459308087 270904 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Interesting < 1459308096 346346 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(between the corresponding tuples of categories) < 1459308096 973974 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Wait, a tuple? < 1459308114 790403 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is the tuple representative of the stack? < 1459308144 353568 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, "stack of functors" was discussing a mathematical stack. The /fool's/ stack < 1459308146 763959 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not entirely, but every concrete stack is some tuple size... < 1459308183 900933 :spygame!773f8e03@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.119.63.142.3 PART :#esoteric < 1459308188 850208 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So why isn't there a λ++-calculus based on functors? Or is that stupid? < 1459308213 802518 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,) < 1459308214 999967 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 -> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> t43 -> t44 -> t45 -> t46 -> t47 -> t48 -> t49 -> t50 -> t51 -> t52 -> t53 -> t54 -> t55 -> t56 -> t57 -> t58 -> < 1459308215 130122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :t59 -> t60 -> t61 -> t62 -> t63 -> (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, t28, t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42, t43, t44, t45, t46, t47, t48, t49, t50, t51, t52, t53, t54, t55, t56, t57, t58, t59, t60, t61, t62, t63) < 1459308257 240365 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scold prooftechnique < 1459308262 816606 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: i would not be willing to bet either way whether quintopia meant that kind of stack. in any case if he did, i'm hereby underqualified hth < 1459308272 289700 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: scold: not found < 1459308298 260454 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I capitalize in Bash? < 1459308325 38460 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't worry, I'm using `mkx this time) < 1459308357 466494 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I go to grad school, I'm going to get way into descent theory. I think I've seen all of 5 names on those papers ever, so I don't think there'd be a bunch of competition < 1459308360 38982 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: all i know about lambda-calculus and CT is that supposedly, closed cartesian categories model simply typed LC. the pieces probably involve some functors. < 1459308369 180498 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Use tr? < 1459308376 835967 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "{walrus^^}" < 1459308381 522478 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​{walrus^^} < 1459308388 399960 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "${walrus^^}" < 1459308389 952632 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1459308464 183486 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` foo=walrus; echo "${walrus^}" < 1459308467 846199 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1459308470 567537 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` foo=walrus; echo "${foo^}" < 1459308471 634230 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walrus < 1459308472 328951 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1459308495 707392 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` foo=walrus; echo "${walrus^^}" < 1459308496 514589 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1459308503 808510 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` foo=walrus; echo "${foo^^}" < 1459308504 532794 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WALRUS < 1459308507 380810 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same mistake < 1459308510 957331 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo walrus | tr '[:upper:]' '[:lower:]' < 1459308511 751213 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :walrus < 1459308519 877358 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I don't need that < 1459308521 712418 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using $1 < 1459308539 846453 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`mkx bin/scold//echo "BAD! BAD ${1^^}!" < 1459308542 2390 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "walrus" | tr '[:upper:]' '[:lower:]' < 1459308544 873508 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/scold < 1459308545 510595 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :walrus < 1459308550 308552 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scold prooftechnique < 1459308550 931686 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD! BAD PROOFTECHNIQUE! < 1459308555 517352 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1459308558 980753 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How nice < 1459308564 717370 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: It's very useful < 1459308578 918446 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I wish there was a way to control HackEgo from out-of-channel for mortals < 1459308584 162456 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo "walrus" | tr '[:lower:]' '[:upper:]' < 1459308585 15786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WALRUS < 1459308596 903534 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we could make HackEgo yell at people without having to type the command < 1459308600 249363 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? prooftechnique < 1459308601 274636 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459308633 744275 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on < 1459308645 526849 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn prooftechnique is inevitably on a mathematical descent. < 1459308647 750316 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'prooftechnique': prooftechnique is inevitably on a mathematical descent. < 1459308655 795362 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scold HackEgo < 1459308656 413790 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD! BAD HACKEGO! < 1459308660 614256 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops < 1459308665 119355 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`scold hppavilion[1] < 1459308665 746382 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD! BAD HPPAVILION[1]! < 1459308692 579870 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THere < 1459308702 266599 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn prooftechnique né NihilistDandy He was there some time ago. Maybe he'll come back. Maybe he's a nihilist, too. (Note from the Editor: He came back, and is a nihilist.) < 1459308705 55572 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I successfully `scolded myself for inventing `scold < 1459308707 608738 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'prooftechnique': prooftechnique né NihilistDandy He was there some time ago. Maybe he'll come back. Maybe he's a nihilist, too. (Note from the Editor: He came back, and is a nihilist.) < 1459308717 850082 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: You aren't allowed to edit your own wisdom hth < 1459308722 426038 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It defeats the purpose < 1459308723 988668 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Observe: < 1459308732 243690 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn prooftechnique né NihilistDandy: He was there some time ago. Maybe he'll come back. Maybe he's a nihilist, too. (Note from the Editor: He came back, and is a nihilist.) < 1459308734 698317 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned 'prooftechnique': prooftechnique né NihilistDandy: He was there some time ago. Maybe he'll come back. Maybe he's a nihilist, too. (Note from the Editor: He came back, and is a nihilist.) < 1459308735 672120 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my old wisdom < 1459308751 524580 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459308756 981502 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote NihilistDandy < 1459308757 832851 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :363) elliott: His mouse obeys the law of the excluded middle :/ \ 393) MY CONTINUITY MY FANFICTION RUINED \ 402) The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist \ 412) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discu < 1459308767 363228 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote prooftechnique < 1459308768 429887 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1272) (make is an esoteric language) b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make < 1459308772 887263 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn hppavilion[42] is the awesomest person you will ever meet. Much awesomer than oerjan. < 1459308775 691224 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'hppavilion[42]': hppavilion[42] is the awesomest person you will ever meet. Much awesomer than oerjan. < 1459308784 953024 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: ^that's why < 1459308794 750454 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was merely restoring order. < 1459308799 337564 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can always append to the old one < 1459308820 83435 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Um, oerjan `?d you and HackEgo had no clue < 1459308846 458031 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. At some point, wisdom must have been reset. I have a github repo and everything here with proof < 1459308870 78999 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `? `? < 1459308871 120988 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you're very clever < 1459308873 67844 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e is on it, too < 1459308874 532469 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1459308879 715186 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? int-e < 1459308881 455134 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. < 1459308902 144437 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ? walrus | ? < 1459308906 71116 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459308917 307877 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? walrus < 1459308919 54927 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :walrus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459308927 322650 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ? walrus < 1459308931 456660 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :walrus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459308945 184183 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo walrus | ? < 1459308946 323845 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459308949 430425 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1459308962 732464 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing something obviously wrong, that's for sure < 1459308992 674785 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Do you know of any completely esoteric forms of shell interaction? < 1459309008 893586 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PowerShell < 1459309018 586811 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: No. < 1459309021 361733 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459309024 571272 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think tcsh is a lost art, too < 1459309046 190493 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What would be a good, strange way to interact with a shell? Perhaps some equivalent-but-totally-different equivalent to redirection? < 1459309088 930144 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No redirection. Only partial application of polyvariadic functions < 1459309100 932177 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Oooh, partial application sounds nice < 1459309130 108199 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Though I'd do them in an "anonymous lambda" syntax < 1459309156 532863 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Wait, not anonymous, implicit) < 1459309158 841039 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` foo=walrus; echo "${foo^}" < 1459309159 528023 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Walrus < 1459309168 336624 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :swapped_mv = mv \2 \1 < 1459309173 325711 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you need to escape ? to use it as a shell command. < 1459309176 963855 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All lambdas are anonymous, duh) < 1459309181 273759 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OOOOOOH < 1459309261 732516 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has tcsh on his (ancient) nvg account. he doesn't do very esoteric things with it.
< 1459309338 159365 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/prooftechnique < 1459309341 988089 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique prooftechnique oerjan < 1459309355 562594 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: are you _sure_ that existed before? < 1459309360 958817 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nihilistdandy < 1459309364 382419 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nihilistdandy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459309375 964490 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`culprits wisdom/nihilistdandy < 1459309381 760039 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1459309402 854362 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it might have been deleted before the last repo reset < 1459309418 410322 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/*tech* < 1459309421 749877 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/prooftechnique < 1459309427 533511 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/*dand* < 1459309428 533739 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/danddreclist < 1459309452 801911 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The github repo I took that from was run by boily from Aug 2013 to what looks like October 2015 < 1459309472 976092 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean the wisdom.pdf? < 1459309476 356351 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1459309500 706451 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's _not_ older i think. < 1459309521 157073 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on HackEgo after all. but someone may have added something just to it. < 1459309543 445261 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_or_ something could have got lost to HackEgo's `revert bugs. < 1459309561 803223 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but i thought those mostly _prevented_ deleting stuff) < 1459309569 377859 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last edit on my wisdom there is Nov 6, 2013, so ¯\(°​_o)/ < 1459309589 842027 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :better ask boily. < 1459309654 790204 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote non sequitur < 1459309655 516697 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :412) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry < 1459309742 925818 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the quote append syntax, again? I should add back oerjan's addition. :D < 1459309754 832879 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@186-26-169-88.dyn.movilnet.com.ve QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1459309762 453764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: I think you have to edit the storage directly < 1459309767 721391 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1459309790 882616 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was quote-add or something < 1459309808 511140 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, learn-add < 1459309815 219013 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe learn+ < 1459309823 179188 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn_append prooftechnique He is inevitably on a mathematical descent. < 1459309827 131101 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'prooftechnique': prooftechnique né NihilistDandy: He was there some time ago. Maybe he'll come back. Maybe he's a nihilist, too. (Note from the Editor: He came back, and is a nihilist.) He is inevitably on a mathematical descent. < 1459309827 769420 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: `le/rn_append < 1459309836 5472 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go < 1459309845 477364 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :le/rn_prepend < 1459309851 690846 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tack tack :D < 1459309867 266382 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: you only need that if there are spaces in the file name. possibly slashes. < 1459309874 370628 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ah < 1459309890 514374 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/learn_append < 1459309891 97131 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/bash \ topic="$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^\(an\?\|the\) //;s/s\? .*//')" \ stuff=$(echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-) \ perl -i -p -e 's/\n/ /' "wisdom/$topic" \ echo "$stuff" >>"wisdom/$topic" \ echo -n "Learned '$topic': " \ cat "wisdom/$topic" < 1459309905 478603 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh slashes shouldn't be relevant. < 1459309910 846706 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file already has to exist. < 1459310046 633534 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually slashes might be relevant the other way, since `le/rn_append uses them as separator. (`le//rn_append should use two.) < 1459310130 71705 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm time for heating pizza < 1459310196 733551 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropping those extraneous h's will make it 'm, time for eating pizza', t < 1459310500 296326 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1459310534 116916 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459310577 659188 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@haskell/developer/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1459311542 858445 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: but then it'd be frozen! < 1459311573 8690 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You raise an important point < 1459312119 87016 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat, no edits in my wp watchlist < 1459312128 800229 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's been a while since that happened < 1459312143 782432 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*new < 1459312247 253626 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1459312305 376024 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459312325 50366 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, not to forget the pizza... < 1459312511 627567 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1459313178 421578 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders if he should have removed the pizza halfway through to fix the uneven toppings
< 1459313203 359767 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pretty soaked in too much pineapple. < 1459313508 903943 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only a small part seems to have any cheese. < 1459313703 973510 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-admmsmqeejkcgnxk QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1459315759 87671 :Zoroaster!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1459315761 138318 :Zoroaster!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com NICK :Kaynato < 1459315771 369631 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello all, I have made an esolang recently < 1459315802 888431 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a C compiler and interpreter. Recently I am optimising the memory allocation but the version so far should work without trouble < 1459315814 128284 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice to meet you. < 1459315932 52346 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-aqhczjtrahvjuufz JOIN :#esoteric < 1459315959 987575 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, heroux < 1459316002 931243 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459316253 936130 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459316483 973850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Kaynato < 1459316495 792611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you posted the language to the wiki? that's where most people go to look for new esolangs < 1459316511 285166 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! I spent a lot of effort making my page, actually. It is great to meet the administrator here :) < 1459316517 411265 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it is: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Daoyu < 1459316565 631975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not the only administrator :-) < 1459316611 299003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I haven't been checking the wiki as much as I should recently because my RSS reader is broken < 1459316613 213581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd missed it < 1459316632 247974 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No problem, you are here after all < 1459316657 977514 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was really excited to make this esolang, actually, I don't think I've really seen anything resembling this idea before < 1459316676 626360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot more interesting than most people's esolangs < 1459316686 72316 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it was a tremendous hassle to actually write anything non-trivial in this language, haha < 1459316701 302185 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half the code in the truth machine exists solely to make sure the input is ASCII 0 or 1 < 1459316727 73448 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rests writes a program inside the program data to then check the last unknown bit and decode to output and loop or output and end :) < 1459316748 430755 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The end mechanism is also very interesting - it deallocates the memory where the program that is running is being stored < 1459316768 162892 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which exits the execution loop out of that, and then out of the top level program < 1459316784 206864 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unsure which paradigm this really counts as < 1459316795 462265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how useful is UPLEV? < 1459316821 492294 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very! It is indeed vital to the operation of the code < 1459316826 610874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it reminds me a bit of the sort of things people do in Befunge < 1459316880 915690 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, but the pointer does not change direction ever < 1459316891 42419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see, UPLEV changes what's interpreted as IDLES so that commands like SIFTS operate on different information < 1459316910 453223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, I wasn't thinking so much to do with the pointer direction as the sort of things you can do with self-modifying code < 1459316917 311841 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :UPLEV was a combination of "How do I loop?" and "How do I not go into an infinite DOALC explosion?" < 1459316932 259239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does Befunge-98 have a mass fungespace copy fingerprint? < 1459316972 101997 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, fizzie's in the UK and probably won't answer questions at 6:50am < 1459316974 233786 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be fair, most of these commands were to "hopefully make this turing complete," haha < 1459316978 866739 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :No problem, that's fine < 1459316982 233423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to just ask people on the offchance they're online < 1459316990 317654 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good strategy < 1459316991 171340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kaynato: you write languages much the way I do, I think < 1459316998 973479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snowflake's initial set of instructions are pretty weird < 1459317008 446259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a case of "find way to add functionality the language needs" < 1459317019 841163 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course! With Daoyu it was initially just a data generation language < 1459317036 245213 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOALC, SPLIT, HALVE, LATER, MERGE < 1459317045 239957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the page could be made a bit better by explaining what the data storage model is, before presenting the commands < 1459317053 114796 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I was thinking about that < 1459317053 671825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment you explain what the commands do but it's not clear what they're operating on < 1459317076 683871 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on that right now < 1459317076 814164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program is formed out of a program and data, and data is also formed out of a program and data, recursively? < 1459317114 403410 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A program always owns data. Data can always become a program. < 1459317156 905813 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you load a program from the binary code, the interpreter creates data, allocates it properly, reads the code into the data, then calls EXECS from the first bit < 1459317553 595913 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Daoyu14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46695&oldid=46693 5* 03Kaynato 5* (+813) 10More explanations < 1459317568 685372 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go :) < 1459317623 566707 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, hmm... < 1459317629 835903 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A program is formed out of a program and data" < 1459317670 206022 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :When code is loaded, it is only data. EXECS can be interpreted as a function that turns data into a program - or rather, if the idea of "program" itself is thrown out < 1459317695 520686 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is only one program at all times, and that program IS the interpreter. The instruction is the data that is being read (the "program") < 1459317729 792426 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the data all looks the same to EXECS, any data can become a program that EXECS executes. < 1459317776 27920 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And EXECS can also, through data that it receives (a program), create data which also calls EXECS, and then run through it, creating data by necessity of calling EXECS. < 1459317805 815450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1459317813 764515 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the sort of loop that concatenative languages normally use < 1459317842 175886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether your language is concatenative; it has a lot in common with something like Underload but also a lot of differences < 1459318082 576823 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, you have numbers :) < 1459318121 623834 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a while I had been using 3$ to represent $$$ but there was really no reason to have numerals of any sort here, haha < 1459318137 890965 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload doesn't have numbers either really, you represent them as programs that make copies of other programs < 1459318150 701413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::^^^)(x)~^S < 1459318150 831712 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1459318158 490270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::***)(x)~^S < 1459318158 620487 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxx < 1459318160 395071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I meant < 1459318165 328202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the number 4, being converted to unary < 1459318167 671166 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but there is a copy function... < 1459318177 271494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::***)(:::***)*(x)~^S < 1459318177 401936 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < 1459318180 656548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's 4 times 4 < 1459318188 936639 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm, very nice < 1459318192 596433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, Underload has a copy because it's meant to be pretty minimal < 1459318196 223202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::***)(:::***)^(x)~^S < 1459318196 353441 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < 1459318205 29016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 to the power of 4 is, umm, 256 < 1459318214 487916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are too many xes to easily count < 1459318230 613390 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm < 1459318261 756205 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another problem is that Daoyu does not really have a stack < 1459318283 118727 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the least, I am extremely unsure if it could "easily" produce stack-like behavior < 1459318309 917196 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be a "mostly writing" type of language in which reading is extremely difficult < 1459318331 779672 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just tedious < 1459318341 847727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is common in esolangs < 1459318374 510032 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be expected, I suppose < 1459318419 72418 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program "<" loops 9 times exactly - the program "><" is an infinite loop, and the program ">$<" generally causes a memory overflow < 1459318477 809566 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find myself recently trying to make a program filter to demand ASCII digits, but I can't seem to figure out how to do it < 1459318505 3807 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was possible with the truth-machine because 0 and 1 only differ by one bit < 1459318536 729756 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, with a digit filter, I have to check certain digits only provided that other digits are in a certain pattern < 1459318606 245750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :often I think about how a language really "wants" to do input and output < 1459318610 437510 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :A thought was to attach a single conditional to a "flag incrementer" for such a condition, which would permute some data outside of the ASCII input... < 1459318614 461248 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example it may want to read a bit at a time rather than a byte at a time < 1459318626 21578 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is possible here too < 1459318628 187587 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, part of the problem is that the input can represent any pair of commands if interpreted as commands < 1459318654 283544 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could double the input twice so that you only have to deal with 0000 and 1111 < 1459318674 740336 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, if one only selects 4 bits before calling INPUT, then it is truncated anyway < 1459318683 469155 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, does doubling even work like that? < 1459318688 261163 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doubling? < 1459318735 728689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, DOALC < 1459318751 703073 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOALC always ensures that the new bits are zeros < 1459318754 975638 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should specify that < 1459318758 79475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1459318787 758661 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Daoyu14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46696&oldid=46695 5* 03Kaynato 5* (+42) 10Minor clarification < 1459318810 379581 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another problem is that of binary partitions < 1459318829 52093 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very difficult to transport data across large partitions - in the worst case, the middle of the data < 1459318853 789539 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Portable Minsky Machine Notation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46697&oldid=46043 5* 03Ais523 5* (+15) 10/* Definition */ clarify whitespace rules < 1459318865 916540 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is part of the reason I have SIFTS - so that one could write across partitions, then use SIFTS to move it all into likely a single one < 1459318967 494495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the instructions in Snowflake are designed to avoid this sort of problem < 1459318979 950059 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. one of them is to make it possible to introduce more than linearly many list wrappers per cycle < 1459319074 252365 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is an extremely interesting language < 1459319113 261677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write an interpreter of it, make a backup copy, and experiment a bit < 1459319136 813244 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it would be very fun to write, most certainly! < 1459319248 915885 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding this problem in Daoyu: But, since SIFTS probably(?) takes care of that problem, I suppose it would still be alright? < 1459319251 214559 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:91fc:c366:1b68:890b JOIN :#esoteric < 1459319297 974490 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suppose the next important step would be to make a program that takes input, modifies some bit outside of the input data depending on some bit in the input, and moves back to its original position < 1459319401 280697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try writing a program to copy a string < 1459319426 613196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]>[.>]!this is a test < 1459319426 743439 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a testthis is a test < 1459319432 313219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1459319441 145290 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm, yes < 1459319456 416769 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't identified any permutation cycles yet for looping, actually, hm < 1459319460 33122 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an interesting test of a language because you can't write it in a "linear" language, which is one in which data is only usable once < 1459319464 490054 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that the setup would be < 1459319470 849153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you would probably use a different algorithm to that brainfuck program < 1459319506 769143 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setup - Take input - Make looping program to copy input - Run from beginning of internal program - Terminate < 1459319573 779465 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I should do very soon is to make a utility to print out necessary ([/!) for generation of arbitrary bit-strings < 1459319766 651354 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is interesting that "ascending and descending floors of data" which I initially specified as a whimsical solution to an edge case has become so vital < 1459319994 560374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me of the complexity of Snowflake's segmented transposition; there are a lot of cases I had to exclude as they'd otherwise have been irreversible (and all commands being reversible is important to Snowflake's design because it means you never lose access to functionality that existed in an older version) < 1459320010 904333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and creating those cases artificially is only real way to do an if statement < 1459320124 179039 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, and here I have to deal with the problem of intrinsically lossy commands < 1459320172 741019 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But part of the design was preventing the introduction of "obvious" commands such as incrementation, assignment, plain conditional, etc. < 1459320180 702171 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1459320185 663307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many people start with those < 1459320198 167899 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, an esolang isn't a real esolang unless you have to figure out how to implement numbers for yourself < 1459320205 191273 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree wholeheartedly < 1459320300 583399 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :An idea that I have been thinking of more recently is the potential in moving the data pointer into the original program data and then using EXECS < 1459320300 883649 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a differently kinded esolang, to be exact < 1459320301 232515 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? you can't make categorical statements like that. there are many ways to esolangs. < 1459320306 781873 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1459320334 607626 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ah, that is true also < 1459320347 6390 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some can be esoteric in its intention; some in its complexity; some in the external context; some in the computational ability; some in, uh, true stupidity; etc. < 1459320364 670225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: the truly stupid ones are clearly esoteric, but only arguably languages < 1459320376 159323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like Esme qualifies as truly stupid but I'm not convinced it's actually a langugae < 1459320389 449951 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there are the piles of BF Derivatives < 1459320393 112004 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :more likely it is a moderately well-done trolling attempt < 1459320406 481437 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you bet. my point is that there is no such thing like "real esolang" (though I see what you really meant). < 1459320411 416457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are the BF derivatives, only a small fraction of which are interesting, but which are a good way for new people to learn how to write esocompilers < 1459320436 965327 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Real Esolang" is arguably much more dangerous than the idea of "Real Programmers / Real Languages" < 1459320458 19087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"real programmers" are mostly a joke, though < 1459320473 440358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name's normally taken to refer to people like Mel from The Story of Mel < 1459320474 984097 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :real programmers do not use any tool. they choose the universe that would contain the desired information somehow. < 1459320493 539102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who do programming at a level so low that most people have problems comprehending it < 1459320503 166180 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm < 1459320508 596923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is sometimes exaggerated a bit, like in lifthrasiir's example) < 1459320517 525971 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a classical joke. < 1459320523 109245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"real languages" is not something that I've heard of before < 1459320533 650679 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inspired from https://xkcd.com/378/ ) < 1459320533 890979 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels that using Daoyu is sort of grasping at that horrible, painful thing at the bottom of the world, with one's hand cut off and eyes sewn shut < 1459320536 157788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by saying "real esolang" I wasn't being 100% serious < 1459320557 803826 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be said to be at a lower conceptual level than assembly, of all things, but then orthagonal < 1459320575 430594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because you can sometimes get interesting languages by starting with arithmetic (e.g. Forte) or even brainfuck (e.g. PaintFuck) < 1459320582 469019 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh of course < 1459320622 46478 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1459320649 343028 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : IMO, an esolang isn't a real esolang unless you have to figure out how to implement numbers for yourself <-- Fueue hth < 1459320655 154855 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for that matter, JavaScript (JSFuck), although JSFuck is only really interesting in that it's possible < 1459320670 688322 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also FORTE < 1459320700 318982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned Forte already! < 1459320707 287540 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was backscrolled! < 1459320720 430993 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you contradict yourself while i'm typing! < 1459320745 895367 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit I'm partial for arithmetic. I like arithmetic. < 1459320815 202300 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, in Forte, I'm not convinced that implementing numbers using numbers is the best idea < 1459320860 315001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TCness proof uses simulated Minsky machines < 1459320888 1172 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the Rotary Turing Machine may prove BF\(-) TC < 1459320920 271403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm reminded to wikiplia, which has built in integers, functions for addition, subtraction, and equality, but not less-than comparison. the way to do less-than comparison (on not too large integers) is to subtract the two numbers, converting the result implicitly to a string substring it to take the first character, and compare that substring to "-" < 1459320924 445508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: BF without -, is this? < 1459320931 484493 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1459320939 672362 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: \ is stand-in for set difference < 1459320945 406001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's clearly TC if you have a limited cell size, e.g. in 8-bit BF you can replace - with 255 + < 1459320960 606409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an unlimited cell size it's more interesting < 1459320970 415749 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, or you can just do bitfuck by replacing + with 128+ < 1459320975 524318 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it might only prove Brainfuck with an even wrapping point TC < 1459320980 521337 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, fractran both does and doesn't fit < 1459320996 425027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my immediate reaction was that it was obviously sub-TC but thinking about it I'm not sure < 1459321036 56469 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Nowrap BF\- is probably not TC, but it might be if you allow quotient types < 1459321059 756697 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Basically, you could have 2-cell tuples (a, b) that represent a/b < 1459321062 609527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call this "permanent BF" because once a cell becomes nonzero, you have no way to set it back to zero < 1459321066 788294 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, but how would you do the math? < 1459321069 776640 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Good idea < 1459321094 520898 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And Permanent BF's wimpmode has a _ ("reset to zero") instructoin < 1459321111 287377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that would make the language really different < 1459321117 458188 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Should we compile a (single-page) list of "Brainfuck derivatives that are actually interesting"? < 1459321119 964526 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair enough < 1459321123 783927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most obvious implementation method appears to be to allocate every nth cell as a different counter, and create an increment-only Minsky machine whose instructions are "increment counter" and "compare two counters" < 1459321131 567400 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no. < 1459321138 297998 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It would only be one page < 1459321138 428298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely no. < 1459321144 459040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: just no. < 1459321147 258960 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: In fact, we could move boolfuck and such into that page < 1459321149 765124 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would lead to too much flames. < 1459321156 811010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I mean, each of the n sets of every-nth-cell is a counter < 1459321162 856319 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Thus DECREASING the number of BF derivative pages < 1459321165 332324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: if you want, make a user subpage about brainfuck variants that _you_ think are interesting, and emphasize it's subjectiveness. < 1459321173 59467 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that's not how it works < 1459321179 167480 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: think of "too many standards" < 1459321179 910661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make an objective page of "BF derivatives that are not trivial to prove TC or T-incomplete" < 1459321193 546867 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, that works < 1459321200 882207 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TiC? < 1459321205 943195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unTC < 1459321210 38827 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah < 1459321255 221942 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Brainfuck derivatives with nontrivial computational class proofs, and other assorted significances"? < 1459321278 409689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no because now it isn't objective < 1459321285 691227 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, fair enough < 1459321323 778983 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :BoolFuck is probably fairly simple (not quite trivial, but not insane) to prove TC, but it's still significant because of being boolean, thus showing that any n>2 is acceptable for a cell bound < 1459321348 689060 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fine, how about just the stuff before the comma? < 1459321374 871955 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is BoolFuck just BrainFuck where every cell is either 0 or 1, and rather than +/- you have a toggle? < 1459321381 718405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that might work < 1459321385 383080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes < 1459321388 962952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1459321395 403181 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's trivially TC then < 1459321397 830913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of these limited-BFs make minor changes to the set of instructions that exist < 1459321404 497063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like removing output < 1459321414 39202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or merging < and * (* is the toggle instruction) < 1459321415 211341 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily emulate arbitrarily cell-bounded BF with it < 1459321429 22068 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not quite trivial, but fairly simple < 1459321436 334640 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :By generalization < 1459321444 210224 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about that, it would be possible to implement BoolFuck in Daoyu if it were not for the problem of nonlinear partitioning. Linear traversal operates at a higher level than is available < 1459321465 375133 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :256-wrap BF is TC, 128 is, 64 is, 32 is, 16 is, 8 is, 4 is, so why not 2? Or something along those lines < 1459321467 645789 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could change the level table to make this trivial but I am not sure if that is in the spirit of this language < 1459321480 74916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how easy is it to emulate unbounded BF in bounded-cell BF? I assume it's harder than the bounded-in-bounded implementations, and interpreter-bundling might even be the easiest way < 1459321642 411596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends on how fast you want it < 1459321662 920080 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will set my next goal to be a string copier. It is 3 AM now, so goodnight everyone, once again thank you for being receptive and kind < 1459321678 32647 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :night Kaynato < 1459321736 751045 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well you basically have to use some stick-infinitely-many-cells-in-one method < 1459321744 655574 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1459321746 5166 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and I don't think you need interpreter bundling. just treat it like a single-tape turing machine with a couple of different symbols, each cell represented by a fixed number of brainfuck cells; represent bignums on the turing machine in unary and shift the whole rest of the tape when you increment a bignum. < 1459321750 810 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the wrong way < 1459321765 535014 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the other way you definitely go via Minsky machines < 1459321769 230665 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is, if you don't need efficiency, only turing-completeness, then it's easy. < 1459321786 451530 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What would you say the most promising path for proving Permafuck's computational class is? < 1459321798 468503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I agree that it's easy if you just care about TCness < 1459321811 493187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Minsky machines < 1459321815 149284 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK < 1459321833 926034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a really good model for restricted BFs because BF can implement a Minsky machine in two different ways < 1459321846 882701 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either using single unbounded cells or a row of cells along the tape < 1459321874 310998 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think BCT would also be fairly easy < 1459321898 855777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd have difficulty finding the left end of the queue < 1459321901 623528 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :using two cells for each BCT cell < 1459321918 861167 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, it's trivial < 1459321945 179144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: only two? < 1459321953 91267 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your iteration command for going from the right end to the left end? < 1459321959 554426 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :every two adjacent boolfuck cells become one 4-brainfuck cell < 1459321962 603169 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe more. i wasn't thinking about getting to the end there. < 1459321965 956451 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I think you could probably do it using five < 1459321976 580946 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or six? < 1459321977 713939 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think maybe 3? < 1459321988 331490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and intentionally unbalancing the loop so that you fall to an otherwise unreachable position < 1459322016 820469 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck derivatives with nontrivial computational class proofs14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46698 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+1494) 10Created page (First Example: Permanent Brainfuck) < 1459322030 60240 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace each instruction with another instruction that works on the 2-cell < 1459322041 150329 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it even easier < 1459322049 580289 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are there any strict subsets of brainfuck with trivial computational class proofs? < 1459322052 642577 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the two-cell with three cells, one of which just stores a "is nonzero" bit < 1459322060 127679 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes his massive mistake there
< 1459322071 790337 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION misspoke entirely
< 1459322081 425679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa, I thought you were talking about n-categories < 1459322081 935477 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any Turing-Complete strict subsets of brainfuck? < 1459322091 63237 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: remove , and . < 1459322102 300386 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, right. The /useless/ instructions. < 1459322106 11743 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Other than that? < 1459322110 507614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can remove + or - on with a bounded cell size, and remove < or > with a bounded tape length < 1459322117 487610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that you can't remove instructions without changing or adding some < 1459322120 583978 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But isn't that a trivial proof? < 1459322124 772769 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :permanent brainfuck is boring < 1459322126 856779 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot to constrain "nontrivial" < 1459322128 317965 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't loop < 1459322130 459329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(obviously if you have both a bounded cell size and a bounded tape length it's sub-TC) < 1459322132 762973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: why not? < 1459322138 423700 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yeah, I think that's the biggest problem < 1459322141 668826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that you can't write a useful /balanced/ loop < 1459322143 359096 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by induction < 1459322149 906417 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't see why an unbalanced loop couldn't be useful < 1459322161 347129 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unbalanced loop? < 1459322171 590036 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wait < 1459322173 581328 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Like, unbalanced brackets? < 1459322178 548401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: one which isn't necessarily on the same cell at the [ and the ] < 1459322183 326152 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the input-output method here? < 1459322184 434984 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that matters < 1459322184 932176 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ah < 1459322188 8462 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simplest possible unbalanced loop is [>] < 1459322199 299089 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think we ignore those < 1459322201 936919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: assume no input, output is BF . < 1459322206 688441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the simplest model I think < 1459322213 256252 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, what < 1459322228 999647 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or , increments the current cell by n, but that just leads to needless complication < 1459322229 949838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively you could make output BF . but in bits < 1459322231 548086 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about computational complexity < 1459322237 156722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you don't have to store the value of the cell < 1459322243 963039 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it receive input? < 1459322252 622015 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It doesn't. < 1459322255 477032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: which language are you talking about? unbounded-cell BF without - ? < 1459322258 173107 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's like a TM: no input < 1459322259 720842 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1459322266 106839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need input to prove TCness < 1459322273 392887 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't? < 1459322276 871846 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No! < 1459322288 669843 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1459322288 888100 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: , and . are useless to brainfuck aside from practicality! < 1459322299 435440 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's confusing, I know, but if you think long enough, it works < 1459322301 249678 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1459322301 419212 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :durrr < 1459322303 564736 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alte :( < 1459322305 16268 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*late < 1459322312 611747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were confusing with BF-completeness, I think@ < 1459322315 606908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think? < 1459322330 694980 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: @ should be used in actual punctuation < 1459322341 194715 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really love your hair@ <-- Sarcasm < 1459322355 697837 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a great idea@ < 1459322362 855866 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well played. < 1459322382 837914 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by the output being BF, though? < 1459322386 204967 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do prefer the spanish language's prefix punctuation. < 1459322397 414773 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It outputs /like/ in BF < 1459322423 563352 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I assume it only takes the low up-to 8 bits, left-padding with zeros if necessary < 1459322448 522422 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alternatively, it divides it in up-to 8 bit chunks, but that's just pointless) < 1459322512 776719 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hm... what other interesting BFs are there? < 1459322544 137652 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random idea: [ has no behavior. All while loops become do-while loops < 1459322553 805417 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so the first obvious reduction is that multiple + are idempotent < 1459322566 23946 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: meh < 1459322566 154267 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I think oerjan or \oren\ published that as "noob fuck" < 1459322568 466405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that's actually been named twice (by me and by oerjan), and invented many more times than that < 1459322589 543908 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but has it been explored in properties? Does anyone know how it works? < 1459322613 380684 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seemed trivially TC at first (just undo everything after the loop so it reverts the changes), but now I'm not so sure < 1459322637 522084 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it might loop only 1 time naturally, but then 1 loop is equal to 0 loops < 1459322641 666636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: right, + is basically "permanently set this cell to 1" < 1459322644 546239 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1459322677 155854 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't sound right... < 1459322728 95437 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, with the right knowledge, I think BF might actually be /easier/ to compile than to interpret, because the search-for-the-matching-] at every [ feels wrong to me, but just using ASM labels feels OK < 1459322732 542990 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It feels more ethical to compile < 1459322768 278816 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, if you can't compile BF to at least a custom ASM, you are a n00b of programming who deserves... some suitable punishment.) < 1459322859 610927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good project to learn on < 1459322873 898358 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if you can compile BF to x86 via string substitution < 1459322877 230206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part would be bracket matching < 1459322902 259490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do it in the compiler via string substitution, so you'd have to match at runtime somehow < 1459322924 259724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably either involves reading your own code to find the ], or else abstaining the loop for its first iteration < 1459322936 476604 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark the [ with a nop < 1459322988 181825 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick some variety of jump instruction in ] that is used exactly once per ] < 1459322999 999159 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What kind of string substitution? < 1459323006 85150 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :look backwards through the executing code, looking for the unmatched nop < 1459323007 600995 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then jump to it < 1459323021 712815 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wait, the answer is a definite yes < 1459323025 453443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: s/+/add 1, (%rbp)\n/g < 1459323026 57472 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See: Thue < 1459323050 810079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no, I mean < 1459323055 829458 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each BF instruction < 1459323062 987156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :expand it to a string, that is always the same for the same instruction < 1459323065 713070 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, single-pass? < 1459323089 205355 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you can do a BF to C compiler via replacing "[" with "while (*p) {", "]" with "}", "+" with "(*p)++;", and so on < 1459323142 802612 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So the question is isomorphic to "Can you compile that subset of C with string substitution" < 1459323148 782313 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm unfamiliar with one aspect of computation theroy you can maybe clear me up on < 1459323186 810525 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're trying to prove that a BF-like has the same power as, say, PDAs, is there an enumeration characteriazation we can use? < 1459323186 940967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: err, no, because I mean you replace each character of the input with a string in the output < 1459323208 518938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: things tend to end up not well-defined if you look at them in too much detail < 1459323225 899167 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well then < 1459323228 285221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typically use an informal "can you compile an X into a Y in such a way that the programs 'do the same thing'" < 1459323231 766602 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemms like a problem < 1459323244 647103 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to define this more precisely is indeed a huge problem that has defined considerable portions of my life < 1459323253 646863 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. basically all the 2,3/Wolfram stuff) < 1459323256 276392 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1459323266 498592 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew you had some experience in the area ;) < 1459323290 298049 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459323395 32727 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a simple language similar to brainfuck that can definitely be compiled with sed? < 1459323402 97282 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or sed--) < 1459323416 360256 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sed-- really just has regexless s/// expressions) < 1459323432 27869 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because that's all sed is really used for in most cases anyway) < 1459323441 921798 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: sed is TC, so… < 1459323448 714538 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then sed-- < 1459323481 82842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you compiling it into? < 1459323487 99174 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ASM < 1459323490 804466 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Same as you < 1459323517 587522 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or did you finish that while I wasn't looking? < 1459323530 9097 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm thinking something like BF+^ < 1459323545 603582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you can compile asm into asm pretty easily :-P < 1459323555 294714 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459323572 993105 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/(.*)/\g1/ < 1459323583 493513 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, s/(.*)/\g<1>/ < 1459323604 660607 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The standard set of BF+x instructions is yet to be defined, but ^ is "Jump back by the number of characters in the current cell) < 1459323625 636711 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm attempting to make the world's greatest BF compiler, called ABfCI < 1459323702 429489 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /think/ that with unbounded cells, you can compile BF+^,v into BF fairly simply, but I'm not sure if it can be done via string substitution < 1459323824 68294 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1459323858 286789 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to use x86 as the target for ABfCI, but I'm not sure what to do with it; any time I try to read up on it I get intimidated because I'm a bit pathetic < 1459323926 894703 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm going to inherit the earth, so at least I've got that going for me < 1459324804 992897 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:cf5:8608:1a23:d0be JOIN :#esoteric < 1459325438 61946 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1459325488 527160 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459325495 984860 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459326148 530309 :Kaynato!~Aedile@cpe-173-88-230-28.neo.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459327746 517725 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1459328034 350983 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459328042 73346 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a blocking version of InputStream? < 1459328053 438515 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh wrong channel :) < 1459328163 502761 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: itym "fnærd" hth < 1459328213 109664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought InputStream was blocking by default :-( < 1459328234 800362 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( just pass it to a BlockingStreamFactory ) < 1459328333 733906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: would be more likely a BlockingFilterStream < 1459328352 842107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason to factorize when you can just use it as a constructor parameter < 1459328377 747337 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to assume i know the difference < 1459328414 958239 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, NOT ENTERPRISEY ENOUGH < 1459329778 4022 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: LNaiter < 1459330816 774916 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid webpages unnecessarily using crazy complicated javascript and css to try to just show some textual information that they could show on a simple static textual webpage, and messing it up so the words keeps overlapping each other or getting truncated. < 1459330895 832963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or break scrolling or navigation commands < 1459330958 938689 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1459331156 48219 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1459331228 628927 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Belatedly, the TOYS fingerprint has block copy/move operations. < 1459331258 636931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was thinking about the idea of no-delta-change *funge < 1459331270 250742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably unefunge as the extra dimensions wouldn't help all that much) < 1459331292 801432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that you copy code ahead of the IP to run it, in the style of various esolangs (IIRC SMITH?) < 1459331490 345454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds feasible. < 1459331900 922793 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459331912 353808 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kood < 1459333437 825234 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (1) how is that a fungeoid, and (2) can you at least jump, even if you can't change the delta? < 1459333460 615590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I didn't say it was a fungeoid, just a restriction of funge < 1459333471 643521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wasn't planning on having jumps either < 1459333479 403736 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459333481 423423 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459333487 820982 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have trouble copying commands fast enough to not run out of them then < 1459333504 257686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's why I asked if there were any block copy fingerprints < 1459333526 204314 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1459333566 249517 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you have a block copy, then you could just always copy the next block ahead of you whenever you jump < 1459333605 829934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1459333615 591195 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess to make it harder you could add a rule against copying over nonzero memory < 1459333736 456298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: even then it's not hard < 1459333744 961984 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1459333790 213069 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you break your code to elementary blocks (with no jumps at the middle and one jump at the end) and copy only the next one at the end of the block < 1459333822 47889 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the hard part is writing conditionals, but you can do it via arithmetic < 1459333829 111466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :computing one block or another to jump to (i.e. copy forwards) < 1459333853 649344 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic? doesn't funge have easy value conditional statements? < 1459333965 817377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they change the delta < 1459333967 215705 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, doesn't matter, it has a proper value comparison function, and you can combine that with arithmetic and stack control to make a conditional < 1459333982 517695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, it has a less-than < 1459333993 481441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically an arithmetical < rather than a control-flow < < 1459334002 595748 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1459334090 215803 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459334092 873186 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ` command for less-than compare, arithmetic on the stack, and the g and p commands to load and store from random memory (which together let you do stack operations too) < 1459335613 897345 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459335964 800686 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1459335965 163758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 301000Z 24004KT 15SM SCT240 M02/M06 A3021 RMK CI4 SLP232 < 1459336756 883671 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: GERMANIC CHICKEN < 1459337010 371942 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: InputStream is just an abstract class with a default implementation that blocks, yes. < 1459337018 796892 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actual implementations of InputStream can do whatever they want < 1459337042 781797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1459337044 876969 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you get an InputStream from somewhere, it is not guaranteed to behave in the way the default implementation does. < 1459337051 16328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd /expect/ them to make it block though < 1459337071 7244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what the interface contract implies < 1459337782 265698 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459337924 1936 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel JOIN :#esoteric < 1459338093 302703 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1459338197 61359 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1459338294 958581 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459338295 998435 :J_Arcane_!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1459338319 106285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1459338671 944757 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but the docs also mention that subclasses are free to do otherwise < 1459338692 163765 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically unless an InputStream overrides the read method it will block < 1459339580 955764 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@sorunome.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1459339981 138644 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@hooloovoo.blue JOIN :#esoteric < 1459341144 184441 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1459341477 101137 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-084-062-097-181.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1459341502 207137 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-084-062-097-181.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1459342113 883341 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1459343901 36738 :augur_!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459344030 207051 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1459344030 434299 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvrxbrldbbvtsgrk QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1459344222 380205 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqjjrtpssvgaskrk QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1459344230 318148 :dingbat!uid70835@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cxmfuxayfqncsder JOIN :#esoteric < 1459344388 257546 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shxqrvrskoxzcgjc JOIN :#esoteric < 1459345875 914622 :meAgen!~meAgen@ool-44c6196d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459345932 586314 :meAgen!~meAgen@ool-44c6196d.dyn.optonline.net PART :#esoteric < 1459346433 17152 :Guest6809!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1459346530 202733 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-a35c-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1459346685 686156 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-a35c-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. I'm looking for a serious, but IMHO higly esoteric language. The main feature is the lack of turing completeness, as no unbounded loops are permitted. < 1459346740 685021 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-a35c-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw in on HN. It looked a bit like C, and was on github. It was like the serious cusin of cloop. < 1459346774 476717 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-084-062-097-181.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1459346805 193391 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-084-062-097-181.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1459346849 806212 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-010-224.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1459347031 33616 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :miko_: http://tkatchev.bitbucket.org/tab/ < 1459347033 489058 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1459347344 984129 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-a35c-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique, while that looks interesting, It wasn't that. It was simpler, and the syntax was a curly braces language. I think it was promoted under the "langsec" mantra. < 1459347920 474544 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :miko_: Crema? < 1459348000 323096 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-a35c-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! Thank You! < 1459350846 1086 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-a35c-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1459350891 300953 :gremlins!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459351134 184285 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1459351174 47783 :earendel!~earendel@unaffiliated/earendel QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1459351216 26878 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459351563 175437 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-9b72-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1459351716 140377 :nooga!~nooga@94.42.122.147 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1459353015 133349 :Kaynato!~Aedile@casewireless02.CWRU.Edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459353595 232136 :miko_!~miko@2001-4dd7-9b72-0-a9de-b5cc-c0e5-551f.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de QUIT :Quit: Verlassend < 1459353983 893022 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.159 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1459354088 435145 :bender|!benderpc@2404:e800:e61a:41d:91fc:c366:1b68:890b QUIT :Changing host < 1459354088 565313 :bender|!benderpc@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459354227 118524 :bender|!benderpc@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1459354598 162739 :Kaynato!~Aedile@casewireless02.CWRU.Edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459355032 161366 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459355168 987127 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1459355245 270963 :Kaynato!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459356292 227336 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1459357477 851169 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa JOIN :#esoteric < 1459357490 291224 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hola < 1459357837 28346 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1459357960 755493 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa QUIT :Excess Flood < 1459357982 63516 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359009 281675 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359011 371121 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359068 982012 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1459359108 681252 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359231 967554 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359624 775060 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359675 360498 :Caesura!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459359868 31884 :Kaynato!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459360237 530945 :Caesura!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459360750 54210 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1459360828 178511 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1459361623 381010 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459361704 387072 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1459361761 298344 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459361775 297701 :gremlins!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459361967 298153 :gremlins!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459361978 922860 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459362007 474786 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-5-127.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1459362145 419398 :gremlins2!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459362195 297234 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459362237 298328 :gremlins!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459362246 25454 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you think crema goes well with SALSA? < 1459362247 299783 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making a military-grade brainfuck compiler < 1459362300 31485 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it written in Ada < 1459362326 238966 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kybfiynvhhxltbuq JOIN :#esoteric < 1459362377 528891 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: No, but it's cross-platform < 1459362416 938341 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459362646 364728 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459362683 399574 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1459362775 367908 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I'm making it include a number of useful /optional/ extensions to ease programmers with its usage < 1459362785 308592 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But they have to be enabled < 1459362898 15016 :Caesura!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459362937 81593 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: By the .conf file for that module < 1459363014 600118 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is encoded in JSON (though maybe I'll change it to YAML)) < 1459363168 482688 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1459363559 967744 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459363561 941077 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so where does the bureaucracy fit in? < 1459363621 61060 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: What bureaucracy? I can add that if you like. < 1459363649 353990 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique: Is bureaucracy a programming pattern, or are you speaking of it in the literal sense? < 1459363663 502543 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If in the literal sense, I don't see how it's relevant < 1459363676 72668 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Military Standard (tm) < 1459363689 308204 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Oh, yes. < 1459363716 821575 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Should I add "springback points" < 1459363733 198071 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Springback points? < 1459363738 556128 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Which would be like using CJMP on the top of the stack, but instead it moves the tape < 1459363752 714131 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: So you can PUSH the current tape location, then later POP it and jump back there < 1459363792 725082 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a... rather extendy extension < 1459363810 514843 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It is. But it gives me a use for the stack. < 1459363817 392801 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: And it's fully optional < 1459363822 336242 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: And not hard to implement < 1459363833 30668 :Taneb!~Taneb@2001:41c8:51:10d:feff:ff:fe00:316b PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the stack for [ jumpback! I think < 1459363845 233727 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1408.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1459363850 256625 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes, but I don't, because that'll make ^ confusing if I implement it < 1459363862 545892 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ^ to somewhere after the [ but before the ] < 1459363886 322022 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The metaphor is that you "tie a knot" on the current cell, then you later follow the string. Because programmers can't understand this stuff in the abstract, obviously. < 1459363891 728423 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be good for pointers < 1459363949 79671 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Part of the goal of ABfCI is to be usable, while still including normal bf by default < 1459363962 562708 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: But you have a point about being very extendy. < 1459364294 975068 :Lilly_Goodman!~canaima@147.1.229.198.in-addr.arpa QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1459364430 297962 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459364527 372403 :gremlins2!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459364659 433713 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459364717 281324 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1459364967 256242 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459365385 506291 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459365786 217913 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wpa-6-1408.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1459366257 150659 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47-208-113-50.erkacmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1459366579 963601 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wpa-6-1408.cc.umanitoba.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1459366655 480310 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1459367337 48788 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1459367979 99790 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459368022 298346 :Reece!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459368054 298516 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459368243 447384 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com QUIT :Quit: quit < 1459368481 971861 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459368558 298606 :Reece!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1459368993 967654 :XorSwap!XorSwap@wpa-6-1408.cc.umanitoba.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1459369518 639767 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1459370104 362154 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459370158 365920 :Zoroaster!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459370306 332280 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1459370330 530048 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1459370346 16238 :Caesura!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459370502 857720 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459370755 781095 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1459370877 285193 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459371063 873001 :Reece`!~nothing@cpc4-wiga13-2-0-cust799.18-3.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1459371138 537456 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:1811:d22:cc00:cf5:8608:1a23:d0be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1459371633 302607 :Coronel!~Coronel@90.208.60.175 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459371903 999166 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1459372196 378731 :Coronel!~Coronel@90.208.60.175 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1459372393 64604 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What data model hasn't been languaged yet? < 1459372436 296958 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the Real Minsky Machine? < 1459372443 508191 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459372444 787559 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :banana < 1459372457 626505 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a special register called "am" < 1459372471 310880 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when you increment or decrement a register, you're really changing by 1/am < 1459372477 750632 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :am starts at 1 and cannot go below 0 < 1459372491 211095 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds weird < 1459372499 837819 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but interesting < 1459372501 313809 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is incremented/decremented normally, instead of by the 1/am (unless you're hardcore) < 1459372520 950031 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's trivially TC, but it hasn't been done before AFAIK < 1459372618 27833 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :with just increment and decrement? < 1459372671 846676 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps s/Real/Harmonic/ < 1459372692 618260 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since you can easily compute harmonic numbers ;-) < 1459372694 389273 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1459372847 802080 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Oooh :) < 1459372858 697573 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes, it's a Minsky Machine < 1459372865 217602 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's not JUST inc/dec < 1459372871 339636 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other operations? < 1459372875 603571 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's also an FSM with alternate transformations < 1459372888 920408 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it made me think < 1459372907 185800 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: A minsky machine can be thought of as an ASM with the instructions INC(reg), JMP(dest), and JZDEC(reg, dest) < 1459372911 283543 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: now the evil version... you cannot modify am. instead, am is incremented by one after each operation. < 1459372919 632573 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: You're a bad person < 1459372940 973848 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: The other evil version is the one where incrementing/decrementing AM is affected by AM < 1459372944 121647 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: You need >= 2 registers for TCness < 1459372946 784611 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to simplify things, test for zero would be replaced by a comparison r < 1/am) < 1459372965 233748 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Why? < 1459372969 309470 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Oh, I see < 1459372981 113771 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: because I imagine that hitting zero exactly will become extremely hard < 1459372984 396286 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: This might make for a good Malbolge... < 1459373005 531534 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I suppose would be, as 1/x has an asymptote at 0 < 1459373013 809524 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(An asymptote that it does /not/ cross) < 1459373056 481336 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459373123 80244 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Hppavilion1/Simple Languages14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46699 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+878) 10Switchboard < 1459373196 826788 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: What about a Minsky Machine based on strings? < 1459373220 962598 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that seems fairly similar to a TM < 1459373229 716664 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :With two registers, you can treat them both as stacks < 1459373232 705400 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: that sounds too much like a Turing machine (since two stacks easily give you a tape) < 1459373244 218613 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I know < 1459373250 211254 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: That's what I just said < 1459373268 862649 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before I started typing :P < 1459373298 678506 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: A Minksy Machine with... hm... what other data types could we use? < 1459373420 753308 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for lack of a sensible answer... how about popcorn. < 1459373437 538215 :Zoroaster!~Aedile@casewireless03.CWRU.Edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459373488 844389 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Map Machine? An Abstract Machine that actually feels like programming? < 1459373507 446936 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because it has real variables) < 1459373520 919841 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Image Machine, which deals with images. < 1459373576 458141 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Especially useful because you can combine it with a TM or MM to make an Abstract Monitor :P < 1459374536 141831 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kybfiynvhhxltbuq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1459374581 974129 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e? < 1459374831 923705 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459374853 771949 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could use types? < 1459374870 931401 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment int < 1459374886 852280 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Maybe < 1459374891 826386 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Formal Proof Machine? < 1459374903 967810 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could use problems < 1459374907 996124 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I'd also like to see someone make a TM-like λ-calc interpretation < 1459374909 811799 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, logical problems < 1459374915 826611 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Logic Machine? < 1459374929 466329 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment halting problem < 1459374936 738331 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's the halting plus problem < 1459374937 721918 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: 42 < 1459374944 345106 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: = 42 < 1459374952 1979 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459374953 280119 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric := 42! < 1459374965 868070 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric := 42! < 1459374966 921371 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would one describe a logical problem < 1459374995 832501 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: In terms of predicates and such < 1459375006 334496 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But with the extra ? symbol < 1459375009 323057 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :a logical problem might be a set of relations of variables < 1459375010 585923 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :halts(X)? < 1459375032 15259 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :? is a postfix operator meaning "devise an expression to solve the previous problem" < 1459375047 535381 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :halts(X)?? returns FALSE or something < 1459375050 669189 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :["y=1": ["x=0"], "y=0": ["x=1"]] < 1459375053 479055 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1459375063 122185 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: So... Table? < 1459375067 330510 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1459375073 982357 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Actually, that makes sense... < 1459375093 859002 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I still think we need a Logic Machine or something < 1459375112 894604 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :["one condition": ["conditions that are only true if that condition is true"], "other condition": ["other conditions"], "unknown condition"] < 1459375122 226400 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Not "only true" < 1459375132 129095 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: More like "are proven true" < 1459375162 345024 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :["x = 1": ["y = 0"], "x = 0": ["y = 1"], "x = 0"] -> "y = 1" or something? < 1459375169 893799 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The closed world assumption means we could interpret a logical proposition as a gate that turns on when it receives a signal and stays on forever < 1459375183 778759 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :closed world? < 1459375198 444668 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Closed World means unproven things are interpreted as FALSE < 1459375204 918888 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Open World allows them to be UNDEFINED < 1459375232 959773 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: That's looking a lot like PROLOG < 1459375260 613757 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me an example of a bit of prolog < 1459375279 250121 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fallible(X) :- human(X). < 1459375296 697587 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means "If X is human, X is fallible" < 1459375296 988323 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a human is fallible? < 1459375301 122385 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes < 1459375301 830472 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1459375312 460456 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you also have: < 1459375313 418245 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :human(socrates). < 1459375314 357614 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :["human": ["fallible"]] < 1459375315 696416 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you call < 1459375321 919870 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :?- fallible(socrates) < 1459375322 87472 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1459375328 378902 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog will say "yes" < 1459375337 853869 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: I did not. < 1459375341 151097 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :.walrus < 1459375365 826075 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I have a more extensive example about my family tree < 1459375377 706705 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[human: [fallible], socrates: [human]] < 1459375395 952839 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :contains(socrates, fallible) == true < 1459375429 816418 :Guest6809!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1459375447 396726 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: that actually seems weird in the sense that predicates and instances look the same < 1459375447 527040 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: That works < 1459375488 650621 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But your earlier ["y = 1": ["x = 1": ["y = 0"], "x = 0": ["y = 1"], "x = 0"]] would be an issue with how Logic Programming works < 1459375492 149325 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. note that in prolog you cannot use fallible(human) in the same sense as fallible(X) :- human(X) < 1459375497 349079 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: However, that syntax might work well for type theory < 1459375498 26455 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1459375513 280397 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you like logic programming, have a look at curry < 1459375541 111913 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: A nice syntax would be fallible(X : human) < 1459375554 805042 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is syntactic sugar for fallible(X) :- human(X) < 1459375573 267988 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you'd need that kind of sugar < 1459375583 48610 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: It looks nice < 1459375590 990431 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not consistent with any syntax in prolog < 1459375607 662650 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i find it less readable < 1459375613 460514 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Fair enough < 1459375645 611529 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get that :- is an implication, prolog makes perfectly sense < 1459375656 358510 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: One thing prolog can't do is anonymous implication < 1459375661 71126 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that X: human syntax doesn't fit < 1459375672 751917 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how would you handle more complex expressions < 1459375682 786388 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has issues with anonymous predicates < 1459375702 527141 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1459375731 389592 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't do speciesHasAttr(S, A) :- species(S), (A(X) :- S(X)) < 1459375758 770861 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a version with that? < 1459375778 70485 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds weird in the same sense as rdococ's syntax < 1459375793 877654 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's higher order < 1459375797 559852 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: No, because I don't think there's a known algorithm to unify those < 1459375807 147349 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: In fact, I would go so far as to say it's probably undecidable < 1459375820 693910 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair it is < 1459375831 321270 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you have binary relations < 1459375832 555994 :tromp!~tromp@216.223.243.225 QUIT :Quit: Konversation terminated! < 1459375846 883454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18e43ef5.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459375847 14019 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Yep < 1459375852 426683 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(undecidable, that is) < 1459376125 456320 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459376477 149541 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459376637 138933 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :father = parent and male < 1459376645 497958 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :mother = parent and female < 1459376673 934803 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :father(X, Y) :- parent(X), male(X) < 1459376713 306435 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :son = parent(x) < 1459376725 181583 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1459376753 153821 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at prolog? < 1459376760 383176 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, as i said, curry < 1459376774 966820 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :parent(X, Y) :- child(Y, X) < 1459376783 941210 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :child(Y, X) = parent(X, Y) < 1459376788 718055 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverse prolog < 1459376831 32640 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1459376836 395301 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@74-114-87-75.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1459376858 546627 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or with my syntax < 1459376863 755949 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[parent: [children]] < 1459376878 178892 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[sarah: [children: [bob]]] < 1459376880 714081 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1459376906 646069 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :your syntax looks like a neat idea at first, but i'd say it would be just horrible to implement in < 1459376916 263256 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just take your parent: children < 1459376929 131288 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do if they differ in arity? < 1459376938 734340 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :arity? < 1459376946 283153 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of arguments < 1459376957 100818 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1459376961 293959 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, parent only has one argument but children has two < 1459376997 724083 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so??? < 1459377007 318359 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parent(X) would mean X is a parent. not telling about the kids. children(X, Y) would tell that X is the child of Y < 1459377028 533044 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you represent the missing information in your format of parent: children? < 1459377035 22093 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1459377043 811084 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me tired just looking at it < 1459377063 805 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459377067 742835 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go full curry :p < 1459377093 798115 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could be wrong about a nondeterministic haskell derivate < 1459377109 660394 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1459377110 169809 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x ? y = x < 1459377116 210584 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x ? y = y < 1459377125 582550 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :default definition of ? in curry < 1459377133 327446 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0?1 is either 0 or 1 < 1459377161 239328 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert x ys = x:ys < 1459377173 973426 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert x (y:ys) = y:insert x ys < 1459377186 111347 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will put an element randomly in a list < 1459377209 68588 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459377214 355281 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs data types < 1459377219 5828 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean = true ? false < 1459377228 311831 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :permutation (x:xs) = insert x (permutation xs) < 1459377264 298100 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459377286 831619 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about this < 1459377302 286846 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: reverse f x' | f x == x' = x where x free < 1459377309 292305 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reverses a function < 1459377331 860455 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you want to make a parser? easy, make a print function and reverse it" < 1459377344 639275 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually works? < 1459377350 180237 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1459377356 506390 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1459377364 147969 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :last (xs ++ [e]) = e < 1459377367 667938 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also works < 1459377407 867600 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse reverse? < 1459377416 299498 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if you reverse reverse < 1459377462 676875 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be: g x' | reverse x == x' where x free < 1459377485 981254 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make much sense < 1459377515 526644 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but go try it < 1459377684 15725 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459377704 531207 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had this string substitution language < 1459377706 761185 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went like this < 1459377713 839514 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :true and true = true < 1459377719 113113 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :true and $x = $x < 1459377724 100303 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :$x and true = $x < 1459377731 286338 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :false and $x = false < 1459377743 134094 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :$x and $y = $y and $x < 1459377752 289401 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1459377756 409868 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the last one for < 1459377767 74936 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others look just like haskell < 1459377791 951583 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the definition of && and || < 1459377824 979605 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but mine was only that < 1459377836 831520 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :no data types < 1459377848 109254 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :just string subtitution < 1459377961 948744 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :successor predecessor $x = $x < 1459378012 557120 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :predecessor successor = successor predecessor < 1459378015 239765 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :add $x $y = add (successor $x) (predecessor $y) < 1459378018 473392 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :add $x 0 = $x < 1459378032 753849 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :numerals in a couple of lines of code < 1459378167 523262 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still perfectly doable in haskell in the exact way < 1459378175 989035 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1459378185 174304 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, at our university we let students do that thing < 1459378201 15881 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :define natural numbers, implement addition and substraction < 1459378231 134234 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1459378239 193439 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess mine's a stripped down version then < 1459378246 703564 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :without data types < 1459378249 777515 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1459378263 414633 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, kind of < 1459378278 543851 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you cannot do in your version is 1 and 0 < 1459378285 427032 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't match < 1459378292 948067 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = 0 < 1459378312 960127 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no need to define 0 < 1459378332 758552 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't say anything against it < 1459378344 276004 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just said "1 and 0" is an alid expressioni < 1459378353 249747 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because none of your and-rules apply < 1459378389 801959 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :data $x \= $y[] = (type $y = $x) < 1459378411 555046 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :\=* < 1459378809 271722 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1459378863 387774 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :halts $x = huh... < 1459378972 297144 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459378972 427342 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1459378972 427407 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1459379251 526567 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459379268 583187 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ < 1459379351 376537 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah? < 1459379549 408718 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1459379573 302440 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Just alerting you to my returnedness. I was eating yogurt and thus had half access to one hand < 1459379590 802230 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=96559.96570 has &lgr; for some reason. I have no clue what that entity means < 1459379692 941594 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what that means? It's not in Mathematical Operators, Miscellaneous Mathematical Symbols-A, or Miscellaneous Mathematical Symbols-B < 1459379758 940948 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1459379914 963121 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's a typo < 1459379935 562593 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be ≶ (≶) < 1459380004 922104 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit, looks like the site I checked doesn't cover them all < 1459380011 321826 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All entities, that is < 1459380016 934011 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :≶ isn't listed < 1459380020 920816 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :<> < 1459380043 868889 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459380047 955667 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :a novel datatype < 1459380057 364737 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it! < 1459380067 307696 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :datatype < 1459380075 284359 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :INCR integer < 1459380083 20699 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer + fraction < 1459380116 856916 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex - real < 1459380163 665848 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :x + y = z = z - y = z < 1459380188 606663 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :egloblam < 1459380207 436071 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459380209 627409 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eglo Blam, the easiest language ever < 1459380278 797348 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there is no turing complete machine with only one register? < 1459380279 664344 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I vote we invent a Functor Calculus and call it the ð-calc < 1459380286 379631 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: There is < 1459380287 569751 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :functor? < 1459380301 789165 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there has to be < 1459380312 261336 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's called "Turing Machine with a Single Useless and Unusable Register" < 1459380316 611660 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1459380323 810050 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :took the thoughts straight out of my head < 1459380344 773531 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Exactly < 1459380348 304442 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Wait, there is < 1459380352 352693 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if there's only that register < 1459380354 329690 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else < 1459380356 946766 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's a variant on the Minsky Machine < 1459380369 764420 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me more < 1459380372 373305 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Then you have "An Extra Useless Register No One Wanted to Use" < 1459380378 917868 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's like a minksy machine < 1459380405 927232 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: But you also have cm(r, n) and cd(r, n) < 1459380412 878459 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :cm and cd? < 1459380415 544836 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where cm is constant multiply and cd is constant divide < 1459380436 140214 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :cm(3) < 1459380446 700247 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :incr r < 1459380450 993402 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :cm r 23 < 1459380452 578184 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Oh, right, you don't need a regaddress :P < 1459380462 725105 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459380471 111663 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You only divide if it's divisible by that constant, and it enacts an alternate state transition on dividing < 1459380475 843782 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: ^important < 1459380486 696979 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :an alternate state transition < 1459380488 640479 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1459380490 572841 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was trying to remember the caveat I was forgetting) < 1459380503 91202 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: The same way JZDEC follows an alternate state transition if r=0 < 1459380514 381090 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :to church? jk < 1459380567 231577 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :could there be a declarative machine code? < 1459380591 275631 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Yes < 1459380598 671814 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1459380609 535752 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: TM descriptions are declarative < 1459380618 927027 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :descriptions... < 1459380634 257343 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :my TM brain is not so TC < 1459380644 882964 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: The things that describe which TM to use < 1459380657 678804 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1459380809 760051 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: The real question is whether there could be an /interrogative/ machine code < 1459381170 792009 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BASICER14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46700 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1749) 10Introducing the Beginners' All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code, Esoteric Revision! Which isn't Turing Complete! Yay! < 1459381206 946357 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or BSSIC by Beginners' Some-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code < 1459381222 684840 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all purpose < 1459381293 65313 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1459381295 928952 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459381307 212500 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that my other language PRINTASKSWITCHINPUTCASEXGOTOACASEYGOTOBELSEGOTOC has a dirty word in it by complete mistake < 1459381413 669706 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a dirty word < 1459381514 81456 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: You hadn't notice that until just now? < 1459381539 51799 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :just noticed it < 1459381551 332864 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's "got" I think < 1459381570 926536 :jaboja!~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1459381573 144771 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: My 4th grade english teacher certainly would disagree with you < 1459381627 81693 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? there's nothing wrong with "asks" < 1459381702 141544 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, look after INPUT < 1459381707 283551 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I may have made this joke before, but who's ppro? Your dual? < 1459381710 586434 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: *sigh* < 1459381712 505279 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: yes < 1459381725 50227 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: We were being funny < 1459381732 864078 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1459381737 742928 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, I asked *who* < 1459381743 549509 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1], you're in an array?! < 1459381743 928054 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What's ppro like? < 1459381768 74044 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: No, hppavilion is a number and I'm calculating a range < 1459381776 925113 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1459381777 422977 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/calculating // < 1459381797 346123 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion = 0 < 1459381805 377595 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- < 1459381811 223925 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1459381818 605162 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1459381832 471356 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I mess up the variable? < 1459381859 280590 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion = 1 < 1459381877 58406 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is concerned for a range? weird
< 1459381877 561711 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1459381894 210337 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Don't do that again < 1459381896 422575 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion = 1 < 1459381906 120851 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: People divide by me occasionally < 1459381926 542012 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was hppavilion before I set it to 0 < 1459381928 308637 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion = pi^(e*i) < 1459381931 379959 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed < 1459381947 770995 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would happen if I set you to 3? < 1459381955 574339 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I don't know < 1459381973 693430 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :co(ppro) < 1459381989 230273 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro is a coroutine running ppro < 1459382014 914018 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rdococ, a function removing a directory called ococ < 1459382019 74219 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: You could also be the coproduct of professionalism < 1459382026 936618 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :he* < 1459382038 218192 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1459382040 463662 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you mean me? < 1459382051 355749 :hppavilion[1]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: Whoops, coppro < 1459382085 602320 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1459382133 748487 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a system where computation is achieved by time travel < 1459382194 359735 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1459382206 442481 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? wisdom < 1459382217 934867 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? `? < 1459382224 945270 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :[bot: father] < 1459382229 243755 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :now he's a deadBOT dad < 1459382253 99919 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1459382268 927935 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a language where programs are channels < 1459382285 709089 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1459382285 843248 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tautology/A tautology is a tautology. Oren invented them. < 1459382285 973451 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? < 1459382311 885983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1459382312 155996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1459382313 93240 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1459382317 20824 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol/oklopol "so i hear these blogs are getting popular, people like writing about their lives and shit. on this thing called the internet which is like a neural network only really stupid." < 1459382317 151109 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :identity function/The identity function is a mockingbird. < 1459382317 151184 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/The 1 is just for disambiguation. < 1459382335 307459 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: he\\oren\. you invent things too? < 1459382385 598845 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once used the loeb combinator to solve an "electric circuit" problem. the solution is quite neat ^^ < 1459382392 368904 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn `? is a blue tit < 1459382395 384766 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relearned '`': `? is a blue tit < 1459382399 459390 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh