00:01:09 <fizzie> I seem to have been trying to move files onto the silly thing by using gphoto2 to upload a tarball into an old digital camera that used CF cards, then plug that CF card into zem with a PCMCIA adapter. Wonder if that actually worked.
00:02:42 * oerjan vaguely recalls being paid to manage a room with a netware server at the university back in the early 90s.
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00:03:22 <oerjan> it was novell, at any rate. and in retrospect i was woefully underqualified but somehow shambled through.
00:03:51 <fizzie> We had a NetWare [some version] server at [particular kind of school but details of education systems vary so much between countries I'm not sure there's an unambiguous term].
00:04:20 <boily> who was talking about checked beans again?
00:04:41 <boily> and what's the name of that effect where you keep seeing and hearing about a thing you just learned about?
00:04:46 <fizzie> All I remember is that it was vulnerably to some really simple way of elevating your account (assuming you had one; most students didn't) to have superuser privileges.
00:05:04 <fizzie> Also something about login scripts.
00:06:05 <fizzie> There was an "edutainment" game about puberty made by some one-man software company, a point-and-click adventure with a buncha verbs in a menu, many of which weren't at all relevant gameplay-wise.
00:06:35 <fizzie> E.g. there was a "listen" command, which just played some random beeps and bloops and printed out "I hear voices, do you too?" (except in Finnish).
00:06:45 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: I don't want to know how much effort went into http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0465/ and the surrounding discussion
00:07:01 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: (that's the one that added @ to Python)
00:07:12 <fizzie> (The Finnish translation of that idiom is literally closer to "I hear sounds", not specifically voices, which made it fit a bit better.)
00:09:01 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: anyway reading it, the main point seems to be that they managed to demonstrate that lacking such an operator leads to significant pain; "But isn't it weird to add an operator with no stdlib uses?" is particularly noteworthy ("we tried using *, and it's still painful")
00:09:11 <oerjan> boily: b_jonas and int-e. i have no idea what they were talking about. also, synchronicity is a general word but there was a more specific term that was memetic a few years ago...
00:09:42 <int-e> oerjan: could it be that there's a webcomic you don't read...
00:10:12 <int-e> oerjan: http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3186
00:10:43 <oerjan> boily: "baader-meinhof effect". although wikipedia says that's a colloquial term for "frequency illusion".
00:11:57 <b_jonas> Is that the one where if you buy a car of make Foo, then suddenly it seems like everyone in the city are driving Foo cars and the streets are full of them?
00:12:18 <int-e> and they break all the time, have accidents all the time?
00:12:26 <oerjan> <fizzie> Also something about login scripts. <-- i vaguely think i maintained something like that.
00:15:51 <boily> oerjan: tdh, and tdh too.
00:16:07 <boily> how many people read QC in this here chännel?
00:16:31 <int-e> Approximately three?
00:17:03 <fizzie> In a former [something akin to a job; exact details too tiresome to describe] the (Windows) network environment had a login batch script, which ran some registry-editing jobs using a Windows sudo equivalent, with a hardcoded username ("sp5_update") and password (something like "ohdamn", except again in Finnish) in the script.
00:17:48 <int-e> s/\[.*\]/engagement/ ?
00:18:05 <fizzie> I had to use that account to do my job, because Photoshop's print dialog did not work if Photoshop wasn't running as an user with administrator rights.
00:19:15 <fizzie> That's a vague enough term to be applicable to almost anything.
00:19:21 <int-e> hmm, can you read the login script or did you have to read the commands in the shell window?
00:19:38 <fizzie> You could read the script, I think.
00:19:43 <oerjan> @tell rdococ <rdococ> so "programming language" is feminine and "a programming language" is masculine <-- you seem confused. anyway, "programmeringsspråk" is neuter hth
00:19:44 <int-e> fizzie: yeah being vague was my idea.
00:20:22 <fizzie> I was about to say I think you need read privileges in order to be able to execute a batch file, but I'm sure it could've been something more complicated.
00:20:38 <fizzie> Anyway, it was just a (readable) .bat in a z:\ drive in this case, at least.
00:20:51 <int-e> I just haven't used windows much... I do remember commands scrolling by on login though.
00:21:06 <fizzie> Yes, you could also see the commands flash by in a console window as well.
00:21:16 <oerjan> <int-e> oerjan: could it be that there's a webcomic you don't read... <-- of course. afaict there are infinitely many webcomics and a finite day.
00:21:17 <fizzie> That might've been what got me curious to look for the login script in the first place.
00:21:39 <int-e> s/used/worked with/ (I have a windows installation for games...)
00:22:23 <int-e> oerjan: Oh did I forget to add a smiley?
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00:25:13 <oerjan> fizzie: by "ohdamn" you mean "perkele", right </finnish stereotypes>
00:26:40 <fizzie> To throw aspiring computer crackers off, they had in fact avoided "real" swearwords.
00:26:46 <int-e> A stereotype is a two-channel monotype?
00:27:33 <HackEgo> stereomorphism? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:28:35 <oerjan> `learn A stereotype is a two-channel monotype.
00:28:42 <HackEgo> stereophtongue? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:28:44 <HackEgo> Learned 'stereotype': A stereotype is a two-channel monotype.
00:29:16 <oerjan> `le/rn zerg/We'll try to think of an entry here, but we don't want to rush it.
00:30:36 <HackEgo> steret everest? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:30:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/stephen wolfram wisdom/stereotype
00:33:08 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
00:33:15 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
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00:34:26 <oerjan> b_jonas: i think some of those words are a bit of a sterech.
00:34:46 <HackEgo> Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them.
00:35:13 <oerjan> `learn_append pun But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
00:35:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'pun': Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
00:35:47 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/fo*
00:35:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/foe wisdom/fomething wisdom/footnote 1 wisdom/footnote 8 wisdom/for further details wisdom/for further details. wisdom/for further details for futher details. wisdom/forth wisdom/fortran wisdom/forty
00:36:04 <HackEgo> forty means "in a fort-like manner"
00:36:07 <HackEgo> Since Biblical times, Forth has been the go-to language for multiplication.
00:37:59 <HackEgo> Sgeolang is probably Rust ATM.
00:38:16 <HackEgo> wisdom/imperative language wisdom/languabe wisdom/sgeolang
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00:39:32 <b_jonas> `learn Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
00:39:34 <HackEgo> Learned 'nothing': Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
00:40:44 <HackEgo> the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
00:41:02 <HackEgo> ¯\(°_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:41:27 <fizzie> `` find wisdom -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep -El ' (are|is) just ' | sed -e 's|^wisdom/||'
00:41:28 <HackEgo> quote \ monoidal category \ justice \ grammar \ brain \ monads \ chu space \ object \ syntax \ partial order \ mdude \ endofunctor \ functor \ indexed monad \ automatic squirrel feeder \ arrow \ ngram model \ character \ group \ 1 \ lens \ monad \ hallucination \ doodad \ monoids \ torus \ equal temperament \ endomorphism \ bicategory \ d-module \
00:42:08 <MDude> Wow, I'm a whole categorey of wisdom?
00:42:15 <fizzie> So many things are just some kind of other things.
00:42:31 <HackEgo> Zaphod Beeblebrox? ¯\(°_o)/¯
00:42:58 <HackEgo> Justice is just behavior or treatment.
00:43:56 <fizzie> Some of those are false positives.
00:44:25 <oerjan> `learn Just is just an adverb.
00:44:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'just': Just is just an adverb.
00:45:13 <fizzie> `learn Just is just a just adverb.
00:45:15 <HackEgo> Relearned 'just': Just is just a just adverb.
00:57:41 <oerjan> technically cyclops are named for the shape of their eye, not its number
01:03:47 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: seems that it is actually a folk etymology
01:03:58 <lifthrasiir> > This is thought to be a folk etymology, with the true etymology in Proto-Indo-European *pḱu-klōps (“cattle thief”) becoming obscured after the loss of the word *peḱu-.
01:03:59 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:39: parse error on input ‘,’
01:04:18 <lifthrasiir> I'm just using a familiar markdown syntax here and there
01:08:04 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: hmm, seems that there is no widely accepted theory. anyway, under the PIE proposal the appearance of cyclops is actually retroactively influenced by the folk etymology.
01:08:33 <lifthrasiir> (and the cyclops itself likely had regular two eyes)
01:10:04 <b_jonas> `learn Nobody killed the cyclops Polyphemos after he tried to eat a shipful of sailors, and this percieved injustice made Poseidon so mad he swore vengeance at him and the gods couldn't calm him down for ten years.
01:10:09 <HackEgo> Learned 'nobody': Nobody killed the cyclops Polyphemos after he tried to eat a shipful of sailors, and this percieved injustice made Poseidon so mad he swore vengeance at him and the gods couldn't calm him down for ten years.
01:10:41 <b_jonas> lifthrasiir: and Polyphemos is named that because he has many eyes?
01:10:41 <oerjan> `sedlast s/percieve/perceive/
01:10:51 <HackEgo> Nobody killed the cyclops Polyphemos after he tried to eat a shipful of sailors, and this perceived injustice made Poseidon so mad he swore vengeance at him and the gods couldn't calm him down for ten years.
01:11:07 <b_jonas> oh, thanks for the spelling correction
01:11:50 <oerjan> i before e, except after c, and a heap of other exceptions hth
01:12:33 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, weird and either
01:12:55 <b_jonas> maybe that should specifically say Zeus and Athene instead of just the gods?
01:13:21 <b_jonas> although Hermes was there too
01:15:53 <HackEgo> sed -i "$1" "$(lastfiles)"
01:18:38 <HackEgo> Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them.
01:18:47 <HackEgo> [[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
01:18:53 <HackEgo> One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
01:19:59 <b_jonas> `slashlearn mark/A mark of one's destiny singled out alone, fulfilled.
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01:20:27 <HackEgo> The Sun *may* be retroreflectorey, it's hard to be sure.
01:20:38 <HackEgo> The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.
01:22:38 <oerjan> a retroreflectorey moon might be hard to see from earth
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01:27:49 <b_jonas> `learn Pike is an interpreted language that got sort of forgotten among the four big mainstream p-languages (perl, python, ruby, php).
01:27:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'pike': Pike is an interpreted language that got sort of forgotten among the four big mainstream p-languages (perl, python, ruby, php).
01:29:36 <b_jonas> `learn patch is the precursor to both perl and version control
01:29:39 <HackEgo> Learned 'patch': patch is the precursor to both perl and version control
01:29:49 <shachaf> b_jonas: That happened when Go was released, right?
01:30:05 <shachaf> go robbed pike of its rightful place
01:33:37 <quintopia> oerjan: a retrofeflectorey moon would be painful to look at during the full moon. it would be like a day that didn't end
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01:42:42 <oerjan> quintopia: why? it would only reflect the light towards earth that came from earth.
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01:44:10 <oerjan> `learn Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei.
01:44:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'sense': Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei.
01:46:14 <shachaf> you are truly the heart of wisdom
01:47:08 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/patch
01:47:25 <shachaf> but now i wonder how sensei relates to censorship
01:47:40 <oerjan> <quintopia> oh new folks have found us? <-- wut?
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01:49:43 <oerjan> `learn Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei.
01:49:47 <HackEgo> Relearned 'sense': Sense is the ability to understand things. A person with much sense is called a sensei.
01:49:54 <oerjan> keep mixing up spacing rules
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02:00:58 <oerjan> <int-e> ITWASAPREDICTIONANDITWASRIGHT!ALLHAILOERJANTHEPRESCIENTMASTEROF#ESOTERIC! <-- what now.
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02:07:43 <HackEgo> ESOCKTNOSUPPORT? ¯\(°_o)/¯
02:07:49 <shachaf> b_jonas: have you considered `cat wisdom/{ESRCH,EINTR,EPERM,ETC}
02:08:17 <HackEgo> wisdom/people who taneb is not wisdom/programmers knowing what they're doing wisdom/twh wisdom/twhib wisdom/whatchamacallit wisdom/who wisdom/whom wisdom/effilry wisdom/egobot wisdom/ehird wisdom/ehlist wisdom/el camino real wisdom/elendil wisdom/eliot wisdom/eliott wisdom/elliot wisdom/elliott wisdom/elrond wisdom/elronnd wisdom/emac wisdom/endofu
02:18:10 <oerjan> `culprits wisdom/rdococ
02:18:32 <oerjan> i _guess_ it just timed out before.
02:23:44 <oerjan> `learn_append zork Saneb invented it.
02:23:48 <HackEgo> Learned 'zork': Zork is like York, except for the first letter. Saneb invented it.
02:24:13 <oerjan> `sedlast s/Saneb/Uaneb/
02:24:18 <shachaf> some sort of contravariance going on there?
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02:33:20 <oerjan> <b_jonas> or http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1186.html with infinitely many heads <-- now i'm disappointed that i see nothing relevant when googling "gillette toothbrush"
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02:40:44 <oerjan> <Taneb> So you rang the computer and plugged in your typewriter <-- my father took one home once and let me try it out this way, back in 1982 or thereabouts.
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02:41:07 <oerjan> (a typewriter with a modem, that is.)
02:43:58 <oerjan> it had a printer, no crt
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02:49:14 <tromp> thx for the link, oerjan
02:53:52 <oerjan> you weren't speaking much so probably lambdabot didn't remind you very quickly?
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03:03:28 <tromp> i saw it earlier today
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03:19:31 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: If someone made a social network you could browse from a shell, would you use it? xD
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03:40:12 <zzo38> I don't use social networks
03:40:26 <zzo38> I am not really so interested in social networks, I can just use stuff like RDF instead
03:41:28 <shachaf> zzo38: You should tell that to vaporware.
03:41:53 <zzo38> Why? I think it does not concern them
03:42:05 <shachaf> Well, vaporware makes a social network.
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04:21:12 <zzo38> What thing is currently wrong with TVMIDI that I have missed? (I know many things I did not put in yet, although maybe there is something I forgot, therefore I would need to be notified please.)
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05:25:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kaynato * New user account
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06:03:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[The Abstract Computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46674&oldid=46668 * Quintopia * (+4523) added some Post canonical systems
06:04:05 <shachaf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB6eY73sLV0
06:04:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[The Abstract Computer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46675&oldid=46674 * Quintopia * (-4) /* The Tag */
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06:05:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46676 * Kaynato * (+5316) initial publish
06:06:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46677&oldid=46676 * Kaynato * (-16)
06:07:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kaynato * uploaded "[[File:Daoyu Symbol Table.png]]": Symbol table for Daoyu
06:07:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kaynato * uploaded "[[File:Daoyu Level Table.png]]": Level table for Daoyu.
06:07:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kaynato * uploaded "[[File:Daoyu SWAPS Explanation.png]]": Explains(?) Daoyu SWAPS.
06:07:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kaynato * uploaded "[[File:Daoyu LATER Explanation.png]]": Explains(?) Daoyu LATER.
06:07:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kaynato * uploaded "[[File:Daoyu MERGE Explanation.png]]": Explains(?) Daoyu MERGE.
06:08:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kaynato * uploaded "[[File:Daoyu HALVE Explanation.png]]": Explains(?) Daoyu HALVE.
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08:13:03 <HackEgo> olist 1030: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
08:14:10 <shachaf> that olist was olisted several days ago hth
08:16:15 <b_jonas> it's just that I haven't loaded the link from this browser yet
08:16:24 <b_jonas> it's indeed not a new strip
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08:24:53 <Taneb> It looks like there may be a spell in IWC named after me
08:24:59 <Taneb> I need to be less impulsive on kickstarter
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08:27:00 <oerjan> oh it's for the printed books?
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08:27:58 <Taneb> One of the limited rewards is "SPELLSLINGER: A copy of the print collection book + a PDF digital copy + a set of comic postcards + Kyros learns a spell named after you."
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08:44:09 <b_jonas> Taneb: um... wasn't IWC using Patreon rather than Kickstarter in first place?
08:44:30 <Taneb> b_jonas, it's kickstarting a print collection
08:45:08 <b_jonas> So those are two separate things? ok
08:45:48 <b_jonas> But that can't work. Patreon specifically mentions book compilations.
08:46:37 <b_jonas> The new kickstarter thing is linked from the transient news entry.
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09:09:42 <mroman> Taneb: are you trying to get something funded?
09:09:56 <Taneb> Hopefully not single handedly
09:14:57 <Taneb> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dmmaus/irregular-webcomic-burning-down-the-alehouse
09:19:53 <b_jonas> mroman: linked from today's transient news entry on Irregular Webcomics
09:21:36 <mroman> I like videos of people falling into water fountains because they're distracted by their smartphones much more.
09:26:47 <b_jonas> mroman: you mean like, pay people to get distracted by smartphones and fall into fountains? or pay people to record video next to water fountains and search them for such occasions and publish them? or pay people to build more water fountains and more distracting smartphone games?
09:27:06 <b_jonas> I think you can fund smartphone games.
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13:28:28 <prooftechnique> You could fund a special interest group whose mission is to promote disinterest
13:28:51 <prooftechnique> Though I imagine it might be a victim of its own success
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14:24:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hajo * New user account
14:30:11 <fizzie> Hm. That ^ account creation's email address confirmation message bounced, because the esolangs.org box has CaC's default reverse-DNS entry (of the form x.cloudatcost.com), and their email provider rejects if it's "a generic standard entry of your provider".
14:35:45 <int-e> makes sense though
14:36:22 <int-e> proper providers allow user-defined reverse lookups
14:37:47 <int-e> (well, no, it really doesn't make sense... I can see how it catches many more spammers than legitimate sites though)
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14:42:10 <fizzie> int-e: Did you have a cloud-at-no-cost box, or was it someone else? Do they let you set a PTR record? (I would hope so.)
14:42:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Hajo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46684 * Hajo * (+4) new
14:49:02 <int-e> fizzie: if by "no cost" you mean the one-time payment deal, I have one of those... I don't recall whether I went looking for a way to set the PTR record though. (I definitely didn't set one)
14:52:41 <fizzie> Hmm. Right, that's also what esolangs.org is on.
14:54:29 <int-e> anyway the control panel has a "reverse dns" field.
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14:59:17 <fizzie> Mhm. Well, that'd need a divine (Gregor) intervention.
15:00:12 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
15:00:26 <int-e> what's the status of esolangs.org ownership?
15:00:45 <int-e> (speaking of divine intervention)
15:04:41 <int-e> Registry Expiry Date: 2016-05-24T19:21:16Z
15:05:40 <int-e> prooftechnique: because they suck :P
15:06:46 <int-e> (I believe they don't really maintain their hardware... they definitely don't have working abuse management. The best use of them I've heard of is for Tor exit nodes :P)
15:07:49 <int-e> there's this site by an ardent fan ;-) http://www.cloudatacost.com/
15:14:23 <prooftechnique> I mean, I guess I understand the frustration, but I have to imagine their support team is an unpaid intern.
15:14:33 <fizzie> int-e: Oh, it's that soon.
15:14:41 <int-e> prooftechnique: exactly.
15:15:27 <int-e> I got my cac server for amusement value... to see how broken it would be.
15:16:10 <int-e> I wasn't disappointed... I don't get to see many read errors from storage devices these days ;-)
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15:34:42 <fizzie> int-e: I talked about taking ownership of the domain when it last expired, a year ago, but then didn't actually do anything.
15:37:07 <fizzie> I also had a very hypothetical thoughts of asking the channel for bitcoin donations and verifiably using those to pay for the domain, but that seems like such a hassle. Plus I had trouble finding a domain registrar that simultaneously (a) appeared not to suck, (b) accepted bitcoins and (c) had WHOIS privacy on by default instead of a pay-extra option.
15:37:14 <fizzie> Arguably (c) is part of (a).
15:41:41 <prooftechnique> I mean, Namecheap is like 3 USD a year. It's not default, but it's also not a pile of money. They at least haven't sucked for my domain registrations
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15:50:42 <fizzie> Well, to me Namecheap is saying £8.83/year for .org, plus £2.02/year for WhoisGuard, to a total of £10.85 ($15.49).
15:50:50 <fizzie> It's not *much* money, but it's also not "like 3 USD".
15:51:31 <fizzie> Oh. Right. Yeah, sure.
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15:59:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46685&oldid=46677 * Kaynato * (+116) Added categories.
16:00:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Kaynato]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46686 * Kaynato * (+57) Created page with "I make [[Daoyu]]. There will be more on this page later."
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16:03:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46687&oldid=46685 * Kaynato * (+399) Added some description
16:05:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46688&oldid=46687 * Kaynato * (+354) Added some more description
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16:13:38 <izabera> https://imgur.com/gallery/I7wFi oooh thisissocool
16:16:53 <prooftechnique> If only someone could come up with a simpler way to compute boolean expressions. I don't mind it, but all the weights make my office so loud.
16:16:57 <b_jonas> yes, I'm pretty sure this one is new
16:17:30 <HackEgo> olist 1031: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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16:26:28 <int-e> izabera: how deep can one make the circuits before they require a black hole?
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16:35:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46689&oldid=46688 * Kaynato * (+0) Incorrect capitalization lead to incorrect category link
16:44:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lynn * New user account
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17:27:44 <lmt> https://imgur.com/gallery/I7wFi
17:28:00 <lmt> i always said you could make an esoteric language from a box of apples and some string
17:28:07 <lmt> someone went ahead and actually did it
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17:54:31 <zzo38> Why would you get a LeaveNotify event if the mouse button is pushed?
17:59:57 <zzo38> It says that it is grabbed
18:03:48 <int-e> Oh xev? apparently the mouse click is delivered to the outer window, not the inner one. Is this due to OwnerGrabButtonMask?
18:04:28 <int-e> In any case why didn't you mention that you were looking at xev output...
18:06:12 <zzo38> I was not looking at xev output and I did not put OwnerGrabButtonMask
18:06:47 <zzo38> However when I do use xev, I get different events, including KeymapNotify event whenever the button is pushed
18:06:52 -!- lmt has left.
18:09:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46690&oldid=46689 * Kaynato * (+1361) Ideas about writing
18:16:46 <zzo38> Is it supposed to do that? If so, why? The documentation can be a bit confusing in some cases
18:20:06 <zzo38> O, it says "Unless an active grab already exists or a passive grab on the button combination that was pressed already exists at a higher level in the hierarchy than where the ButtonPress occurred, an automatic active grab of the pointer takes place when a ButtonPress occurs."
18:32:14 <zzo38> It does make some sense though
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18:34:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46691&oldid=46619 * Kaynato * (+12) Added Daoyu to Language List
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18:59:27 <augur> this might be of interesting to everyone here: http://www.algodoo.com/what-is-it/
19:02:51 <augur> think more on-topic!
19:03:11 <augur> think exotic mechanical computers!
19:03:13 <augur> consider! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP8FjfS-f6Y
19:03:45 <prooftechnique> I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that a laser-rocket-truck fight can simulate a Turing machine
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19:06:56 <augur> im going to be playing with it a bunch, and then building some actual rod logic computers :)
19:07:20 <prooftechnique> I think my favorite part of Algodoo videos so far is that they all have absolutely bonkers music backing them up
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19:15:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46692&oldid=46318 * Kaynato * (+308) Added Daoyu implementation
19:25:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Daoyu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46693&oldid=46690 * Kaynato * (+138) Formatting
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19:27:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46694&oldid=46407 * Kaynato * (+384) Added Daoyu implementation to /* Implementations */
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20:01:59 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think it was optimised enough for rod logic though...
20:14:30 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: well, it looks like it is now! :)
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21:53:58 <boily> there should be a progress bar or something...
21:54:17 <boily> hellochaf. how you doin'? nice HackEgo weather innit?
21:54:38 <HackEgo> usb3/USB3 hosts are packaged with a full independent implementation of the older USB/USB2, going through separate pins in the same socket. It is similar to DVI, except you need a separate passive converter stub to plug VGA monitor to DVI socket, but you don't need one to plug a USB client to an USB3 host.
21:54:55 <HackEgo> gonad/gonads are the best punctional fondlegramming squishcture.
21:54:58 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK
21:55:03 <lambdabot> CYUL 292100Z 32012G19KT 30SM FEW240 06/M11 A3002 RMK CI1 SLP170 \ ENVA 292120Z 24011KT 9999 FEW015 BKN022 05/02 Q0995 RMK WIND 670FT 26014KT \ ESSB 292150Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 BKN082/// 02/01 Q1001 \ KOAK 292053Z 23007KT 10SM FEW010 17/03 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP117 T01720028 58009
21:55:03 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott oerjan
21:56:26 <boily> I'm suffering from withdrawal. any other comics similar to GG I can binge on?
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22:02:49 <int-e> Similar to GG, hmm.
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22:23:14 <HackEgo> method/A method is a tweaked out mothod.
22:24:19 <tswett> The ideal concurrency solution—which is to say, the best imaginable solution, rather than the best possible one—is to make it so that no two processes can run simultaneously, but all processes finish as soon as they begin, making concurrency unnecessary.
22:27:15 <tswett> Another solution is the ostrich solution. Just ignore the problem.
22:27:48 <tswett> Write each process under the assumption that it and other processes will never interfere with each other.
22:29:10 <tswett> Now, why wouldn't this work for... let me just pick a random hypothetical example... a health insurance company?
22:30:13 <tswett> Well, imagine if this company had a synchronization process, which takes data from table A, processes it a little, and puts it in table B.
22:30:54 <tswett> If something were to modify a record in table A while this synchronization process is running, B might end up with a record that's half one thing, half the other thing.
22:32:24 <tswett> The nice thing, I think, is that a lot of processes are read-only. The company would obtain information about members a whole lot more often than it would modify information about members.
22:34:44 <tswett> When it comes to concurrency, you can almost just ignore all read-only processes.
22:34:58 <tswett> If a process does nothing but read, then you can just take a consistent snapshot of the database and give that to the process to chew on.
22:35:13 <tswett> Which may be easier said than done.
22:36:09 <tswett> As for process which write as well? Boy.
22:39:27 <Sgeo> tswett, I assume you've looked at Rust? You either have as many read references as you want, or only one write reference
22:40:40 <tswett> Things get interesting when you try to apply that to a database.
22:41:29 <tswett> In Rust, I don't think you can generally go and "check out" an object, so to speak, so that you have temporary write access to it.
22:41:46 <tswett> Sort of "you can't access anything except what you're given".
22:41:59 <tswett> Whereas databases tend to be "you can access everything except what someone else has taken".
22:42:54 <tswett> Now, that whole "many readers or one writer" thing is pretty ubiquitous.
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22:43:49 <tswett> Now I'm thinkin'. Suppose that each process only writes to one table.
22:46:02 <tswett> You can do something like this:
22:46:25 <tswett> When a process begins, atomically do the following: take a snapshot of the database and lock the target table for writing.
22:46:45 <tswett> The process can read everything from the snapshot. It's a perfectly consistent state.
22:50:21 <tswett> Now, whenever a read-only process needs to happen, there's no problem. Have it read from that snapshot, too.
22:51:35 <tswett> But, uh... this is going to cause a problem whenever you want multiple read-write processes at once.
22:52:02 <tswett> The second process won't be able to begin, because in order to begin, it has to take a snapshot of the database, and it can't do that while the first process has a table locked for writing.
22:54:56 <tswett> Remind me, what's the problem with just having each process acquire all the locks it will ever need simultaneously?
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23:29:23 <oerjan> <b_jonas> mroman: you mean like, pay people to [...] <-- rube goldberg approves of this funding method
23:30:05 <oerjan> i snipped it because it's bloody long tdnh
23:30:31 <oerjan> http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2016-03-29#092647bjonas
23:30:41 <oerjan> fortunately the logs have anchors
23:30:54 <oerjan> i wasn't online either hth
23:32:09 <shachaf> oerjan: i make sure to add anchors to every web application before i ship it
23:33:12 * hppavilion[1] has the sudden fear "ging" is a racial slur he's never heard of
23:33:23 <oerjan> it's slightly annoying that you cannot get to those anchors by selecting a proper link. i lose the search highlighting i already had.
23:33:39 * oerjan sinks shachaf with the saucepan ===\__/
23:34:42 <oerjan> i also suspect that the statement may be true as a trivial quantification.
23:35:04 <shachaf> oerjan: What are you implying?
23:35:06 <oerjan> (it would be for me, anyway)
23:35:39 <oerjan> no wait, _if_ it's true, it's a trivial truth.
23:36:02 <shachaf> oerjan: What do you mean, lose the search highlighting?
23:36:03 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm implying that the only way that can be true is if you have made no web applications hth
23:36:23 <shachaf> oerjan: What if I made web applications and added anchors?
23:36:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i always start logreading by searching for my name, and keep it highlighted.
23:36:37 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's the word!
23:36:50 <shachaf> oerjan: But clicking on a thing to get an anchor doesn't unhighlight searches, does it?
23:37:03 <oerjan> shachaf: yes, because it takes you to a new page
23:37:07 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You didn't make EVERY web application (for most of them, you aren't allowed to touch them), therefor that statement must be false
23:37:21 <shachaf> Oh, it doesn't in Chrome but it does in Firefox. I don't know about IE.
23:37:31 <oerjan> and the anchor is only in the url of that page.
23:38:02 <oerjan> shachaf: ok maybe not new. new history entry.
23:38:02 <shachaf> I must be missing something about your logreading process.
23:38:14 <shachaf> Anyway if you used Chrome it would do what you want, I think.
23:39:05 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: I was only quantifying over the web applications I shipped.
23:39:12 <shachaf> And it depends on how broad "shipped" is, anyway.
23:39:23 <hppavilion[1]> \forall app in webapplications: added(shachaf, app, anchors)
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23:39:39 <shachaf> You're ignoring an important part of the sentence.
23:40:20 <shachaf> pikhq: do you ship youtube and google+
23:40:40 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I own the copyright to all "web application shipping" jokes
23:41:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: "ging" could be short for "ginger", which i'm not sure whether is a real slur or not, but i think south park or something made it one
23:41:43 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: look i shipped all sorts of web applications
23:47:42 <fizzie> I keep parsing "tg" as Turing-gomplete.
23:48:56 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game.
23:49:40 <ais523> assuming that isn't just a joke, how is it defined?
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23:50:44 <ais523> oerjan: I was hoping it was something like "determining the optimal strategy requires solving the Halting Problem"
23:51:11 <oerjan> `learn_append tg At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to quit before losing or not.
23:51:21 <HackEgo> Learned 'tg': TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to quit before losing or not.
23:51:38 <oerjan> maybe it should say "halt" instead.
23:53:35 <int-e> this sounds useful. "A Beginner's Guide to Invading Earth"
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23:55:34 <shachaf> "Of legal knowledge I acquired such a grip / That they took me into the partnership. / And that junior partnership, I ween, / Was the only ship that I ever had seen."
23:56:52 <pikhq> shachaf: LOL no, I do not.
23:57:00 <pikhq> That's an anti-ship if I ever saw one.
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23:57:26 <pikhq> I ship Google+ and [internal social app] however!
23:57:52 <shachaf> pikhq: whoa whoa whoa, which internal social app is that?
23:59:26 <pikhq> Google's favorite for ages, straight outta Cambridge.
23:59:36 <Elronnd> `helloworldinanylanguage python
23:59:37 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: helloworldinanylanguage: not found
23:59:54 <HackEgo> ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ blessyou \ bookofeso \ botsnack