00:00:13 ais523: also it is possible wisdom/test is younger than your deletion, was it more than 17 months ago? 00:00:29 oerjan: I can't remember 00:00:46 -!- lleu has joined. 00:00:46 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 00:00:46 -!- lleu has joined. 00:02:03 boily: what's so bad about "til"? btw i realized the other day that the norwegian preposition "oppå" is cognate to up-up-on hth 00:03:52 oerjan: my client is messed up tdnh 00:04:01 basically, the norwegian "på" is cognate to en:upon, and means the same thing as en:on, and then the process repeated once more. 00:04:20 eh? 00:05:18 boily: no:oppå <- opp+på, no:på <- old norse:upp á 00:05:47 no:oppå = en:upon by meaning, but up+upon by etymology 00:06:00 up-up-on. there's something wrong going on there... 00:06:16 -!- Warrigal has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:06:27 basically á went out of use and på took its place. 00:06:48 on the other hand, we have “au dessus”: «at the of on». 00:06:59 O KAY 00:08:24 -!- Warrigal has joined. 00:11:34 also, i recall reading that "på" is the only norwegian word root that is not originally a borrowing that starts with "p". 00:11:49 of course, originally it started with "u", then. 00:12:02 upå? 00:12:08 upp á, i said 00:13:14 otoh there are some pretty old borrowings, like "prest" 00:14:57 does this mean PIE didn't have words starting with "b"? 00:15:58 (not to be confused with "bʰ") 00:17:34 http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\ie\piet&first=241 ← has some b- words. 00:19:19 hm "peg" 00:20:51 fine, it is simply false, no:pinne is a counterexample. 00:21:44 let me guess: no:pinne is en:pine is fr:pin. 00:21:50 no, en:pin 00:22:12 en:pine = no:furu 00:22:16 close enough. 00:22:29 no:furu, as in en:fir? 00:23:07 hm yes those seem cognate 00:23:15 although en:fir = no:bartre 00:23:31 heh, linguistics talk 00:23:54 or wait 00:23:59 um, is norvegian "på" the same particle as swedish "på"? 00:24:02 en:fir isn't that broad 00:24:06 b_jonas: yeah 00:25:05 b_jhellonas. are Hungarian trees borrowed from PIE by chance, or completely ugric? 00:25:20 apparently en(US):fir = no:edelgran 00:25:39 boily: "au dessus" doesn't seem too strange to me, if you compare it either to some other strange French stuff, or to those very few prepositions in Hungarian that require their argument in a case other than accusative 00:26:09 boily: uh, I'm not sure, there are lots of trees, and I think they're borrowed from different languages because people met them in different times 00:26:35 . o O ( a time for trees... turn turn turn ♪ ) 00:26:46 and I don't really know much about etymology 00:27:21 and then you have en:larch vs. no:lerk. 00:27:24 the larch. 00:27:26 the larch. 00:27:39 Presumably some of them probably come from finno-ugric roots, some from slavic, some from turkish, etc. 00:27:44 boily: what i remember is that the hungarian word for "apple" is the same as the kazakh one. (which makes sense since that's where apples come from.) 00:31:16 * oerjan notes that en. wiktionary has a table for alma + cases & plural, and a table for alma + possessives, but not one that combines them >:) 00:31:19 boily: if I can trust the internets, then “fűz” (willow) and “nyír” (birch) are from finno-ugric stuff, whereas “tölgy” (oak) and “bükk” (beech) are of uncertain origin. 00:31:43 bükk feels very PIEish to me hth. 00:31:58 which would of course essentially multiply the table sizes afaik 00:32:16 boily: basically, many things the Magyars met while they were still nomadic and shooting arrows backwards from their horses have finno-ugric names, and things they met later when they decided to stay put and do agriculture have names that come from Slavic or Turkish. 00:32:32 makes sense. 00:32:39 “fenyő” (pine) also comes from finno-ugric 00:32:50 en:willow, but fr:saule and no:selje. 00:32:56 because you don't need to do agriculture to just notice the big obvious trees that are in the mountains everywhere 00:33:42 how to recognize different types of trees. 00:33:52 and then you have en:larch vs. no:lerk. <-- well we're really not big on "ch" hth 00:35:35 en:ash no:ask... 00:36:00 not big on "sh" either 00:36:11 -!- p34k has quit. 00:36:12 en:oak no:eik 00:36:26 en:maple no:lønn 00:36:40 en:birch no:bjørk 00:36:40 érable sounds better imfo. 00:37:17 OKAY 00:37:18 an unusual one: en:yew no:barlind fr:if 00:37:50 also, I totally don't know the names of most of these trees in English, I had to look them up 00:38:03 i didn't know that, or willow 00:38:14 well, oak and pine and willow I do know, but not much more 00:38:28 en:spruce = no:gran 00:38:57 I don't know the rest either way, as in, neither can I tell from the English word what tree it is, nor from the tree its English name, but then, I don't know too much about plants even in Hungarian 00:39:13 I'm not really a botanics sort of guy 00:39:34 DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT BOTANY, DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ETYMOLOGY... 00:39:46 correct 00:40:08 herpetology? seismology? chickens? 00:40:24 surely there must be a proper word for the study of chickens 00:40:46 oerjan: farming? 00:40:48 probably herpetology, if you squint hard enough. 00:42:06 coelosaurology 00:42:58 hm i'm mispling that 00:43:29 *coelurosaurology 00:44:03 <\oren\> Ok... let's see how many mods I can install before ksp goes completely screwy 00:44:54 <\oren\> uh, avidomesticology? 00:44:59 \oren\: 0 hth 00:45:31 or should it be -1 00:45:59 \oren\: mixing greek and latin, ZERO ON THE FINAL 00:46:03 <\oren\> it's true I've had things go screwy even without any mods 00:46:29 -!- gde33|2 has joined. 00:46:52 * oerjan should get some new memes but that would require actually browsing top subreddits 00:47:18 the Marco Rubio meme is a new one and seems to be popular recently 00:48:02 hm are there retro-memeticists 00:48:23 people who wilfully use only memes at least 10 years old 00:48:49 oerjan: maybe but nobody would recognise them as memes 00:49:06 darn 00:49:26 ais523: even if they're obvious clichés? 00:49:36 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:49:37 except possibly the whole "the cake is a lie" thing, where the fact that it's an outdated meme is itself a meme; not sure if the original is 10 years old yet though 00:51:29 <\oren\> marco is dead tho 00:51:42 ais523: wait which marco rubio meme, there seem to be at least 3 00:52:10 oerjan: let's dispel with this faction that «obama» doesn't know what «he's» doing, «he» knows exactly what «he's» doing 00:52:16 *with this fiction 00:52:24 words in «» can be swapped out, and often are 00:52:32 typically it gets repeated a few times, then someone says "ther eit is" 00:52:38 * "there it is" 00:52:56 ok makes no sense tdh 00:53:06 oerjan: that's why it became a meme, this actually happened 00:53:09 in a debate, very high profile 00:53:22 Rubio said it four times, three of them pretty much in a row (the third time after he'd been called for doing it twice) 00:53:30 and "there it is" was the response at the time 00:54:15 okay 00:54:43 * oerjan considers dropping learning memes until the US election is over 00:54:57 i'm not following it anyhow. 00:55:00 oerjan, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRNHgi1RzU 00:55:13 AAAA 00:55:40 Sgeo__: I'm assuming that's a link to the original occasion? 00:55:52 ais523, yes 00:57:07 The fourth time he rephrased it a bit. Still got booes 01:00:30 <\oren\> mean while donald trump says exactly the same slogans a hundred times over 01:02:34 <\oren\> but then, his slogans are catchy 01:07:43 china china china china china china china china. 01:21:52 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cdsr2R9WoAIx48G.jpg Canadian take-out! 01:22:39 -!- lynn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:22:45 boily: china is not a verb 01:23:14 it is both a noun and an adjective though 01:23:28 lifthrasiir: bwah ah ah ah ah :D 01:23:28 although the adjective-noun combination is either nonsensical or tautological depending on how you look at things 01:24:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs 01:24:34 ais523: china china makes perfect sense 01:24:46 to be exact, China china 01:24:56 lifthrasiir: oh yes, that combination works 01:25:06 and is one I hadn't thought of 01:27:50 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:29:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: VINYL CHICKEN). 01:37:43 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:39:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:39:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:41:40 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:58:44 * oerjan puts a green hat on fungot 01:58:45 oerjan: not by far. it's awesome. and by insane, i mean) 02:00:36 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 02:09:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:15:00 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:19:39 -!- Warrigal has quit (*.net *.split). 02:19:39 -!- lleu has quit (*.net *.split). 02:19:39 -!- treaki__ has quit (*.net *.split). 02:19:39 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 02:20:55 -!- treaki__ has joined. 02:22:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:25:14 -!- Warrigal has joined. 02:25:14 -!- lleu has joined. 02:25:43 -!- Warrigal has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 02:25:50 -!- Warrigal has joined. 02:50:39 <\oren\> "We don't win anymore! We don't win with trade, we don't win with Isis, we don't win with China, we don't win with healthcare. We are going to start winning again for the American people" 02:53:42 <\oren\> "we are going to build a wall, and who's going to pay for it?" "MEXICO!" 02:54:54 <\oren\> etc. 02:55:02 <\oren\> they're catchy 03:29:39 <\oren\> Let's just dispense with this notion that Barack Obama doens't knwo what he's doing 03:30:07 <\oren\> Barack Obama knows EXATLCY what he's doing 03:38:14 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jimmy23013 * New user account 03:39:07 \oren\: the original was "dispel with", which people keep misquoting because it isn't correct Enlish 03:39:11 *English 03:39:22 they keep mentally substituting something that's actually correct 03:40:17 let's just mispel with this substition 03:45:06 <\oren\> lol 03:51:31 [wiki] [[Undefined]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46605 * Jimmy23013 * (+1136) Created page with "'''Undefined''' is a programming language that, every program in it causes [[undefined behavior]]. Extra command line arguments and lack of source files also triggers undefine..." 03:52:47 [wiki] [[Undefined]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46606&oldid=46605 * Jimmy23013 * (+0) 03:57:47 based on the edit summary snippet 03:57:55 I'm assuming that every program in existence is an interpreter for this language 03:58:04 called it :-) 03:58:47 I like it, it's an absence-of-language joke that hasn't been done before 03:59:48 I have added XC_xterm_sideways 04:00:25 [wiki] [[Undefined]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46607&oldid=46606 * Ais523 * (+25) cat :-) 04:11:17 '!' for comment, ' ' for transparent, '-' for white, '#' for black, '.' for transparent hotspot, '+' for white hotspot, '@' for black hotspot 04:21:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:23:01 <\oren\> ais523: I thought it must be a C variant 04:23:18 <\oren\> well, in a sense it is 04:25:20 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:29:14 -!- treaki_ has joined. 04:33:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 04:33:04 -!- 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06:43:50 -!- constant has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:54:04 -!- AlexR42 has joined. 06:55:52 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 07:07:46 What kind of effects for Magic: the Gathering cards might make interesting puzzles but that do not make sense for an actual game? 07:09:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:12:39 (Possibly some such effects may even do things which are impossible in a normal game) 07:16:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:19:27 -!- bender| has joined. 07:24:08 zzo38: a card that lets you undo the turn, perhaps 07:24:49 for this to work in a puzzle you'd have to spend resources to gain information on what's in the opponent's hand or library (or some other hidden zone), undo the turn, then use the information to win 07:25:02 and the solution would involve finding a winning path no matter what was there, but the details depended on what you found there 07:25:51 Yes that is one idea 07:25:51 i like that 07:30:59 OK 07:40:59 -!- AlexR42 has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:45:10 Other things I have considered are many kind of effects that cause the game to end in a draw; with default stipulations, you have not solved the puzzle if the game ends in a draw for any reason. 07:51:22 ooh, perhaps you could also use it to mill some cards to determine what order they are in, undo the mill, and then exploit your knowledge of which cards you'll draw 07:54:19 Yes 08:13:04 zzo38: cards that are really overpowered if you can build decks with them (even in limited) but that somehow don't seem to help you in that particular puzzle. or really underpowered ones like One with Nothing; or ones obsolated for all practical purposes by different cards, like Squire. 08:18:01 b_jonas: One with Nothing's effect is one that many decks find useful 08:18:09 the problem is that there are better cards with the effect 08:18:25 there's a creature costing B that you can discard cards to for free, for example 08:18:37 and Lion's Eye Diamond costs 0 and gives you 3 mana, that's better than One with Nothing in two ways 08:27:43 ais523: ok 08:28:40 ais523: then Squire and Grizzly Bears might be better examples 08:29:08 (maybe unless you're playing Muraganda Petroglyphs) 08:33:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 08:39:55 are there no white bears? those would be better than Squire in pretty much all practical circumstances 08:40:15 (the only non-contrived situation I can think of offhand where you'd prefer a Squire involves an opponent's Ensnaring Bridge) 09:20:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:29:56 there is one non-changeling white bear, but white uses lions instead 09:38:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:40:56 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 09:46:48 And windows already has working pipes, only they start out with a too little buffer by default so you have to change the buffer size with a windows api call, but linux had that very same problem for a while until they increased the default buffer size. 09:47:32 On unix, you dealt with it by using unix domain sockets, which both had a larger buffer and a buffer of whose size you can adjust with a sockopt call. 09:47:50 It's worse on windows because no unix sockets. 10:09:57 -!- mroman has joined. 10:10:14 fnąrd 10:31:41 -!- boily has joined. 10:43:39 will it be the first thunderstorm of the year? stay tuned! 10:44:22 (or not. that shit can fry your machines you won't even have time to say fungot.) 10:44:22 boily: why would it fail? 10:44:33 fungot: because ELECTRICITY! 10:44:34 boily: is it possible to download an offline copy of teach scheme in fixnum days 10:44:56 fungot: I don't think you couldn't. 10:44:57 boily: and for the live data. this is cool! :) works. i guess you know what the consequences of shouting out " heil bush" among friends, that would 10:45:30 fungot: we say «C't'une fois George Bush...» as a lead on for a stupid joke. 10:45:31 boily: which is strange, but most libraries i see announced for cl do require low level tricky stuff :) forthers would say that. 10:45:48 fungot: forthers are special people. 10:58:52 -!- asie has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:04:30 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:06:14 did you know that canada is 50% the letter a 11:07:04 izabellora. now that you mention it... 11:08:22 helloily 11:10:12 -!- asie has joined. 11:17:34 izabera, the catalan language is almost 50% a's, too 11:18:45 Tanelle. 11:19:56 -!- andrew_ has joined. 11:21:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ADVANCED CHICKEN). 11:30:50 -!- bender| has joined. 12:09:14 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:13:08 -!- spiette has joined. 12:50:59 -!- jaboja has joined. 13:35:02 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 13:54:24 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 14:01:02 -!- earendel has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:02:17 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:06:41 -!- earendel has joined. 14:10:38 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:48:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:57:33 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 15:01:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 15:09:12 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:12:47 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 15:33:08 -!- XorSwap has joined. 15:41:34 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:45:03 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:45:30 -!- adu has joined. 15:50:13 -!- p34k has joined. 15:51:37 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:54:34 -!- munekita has joined. 15:56:23 -!- munekita has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:32:18 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:41:35 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 16:44:51 -!- earendel has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:56:48 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:08:30 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:20:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:34:05 -!- lynn has joined. 17:35:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting). 17:41:55 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:57:03 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 18:17:49 -!- adu has joined. 18:26:49 -!- earendel has joined. 18:37:07 -!- mihow has joined. 19:13:14 Hellall 19:19:39 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 19:20:16 Hm... 19:20:18 prooftechnique: Hi 19:20:23 adu: HI! 19:20:27 adu: YOU'RE HERE! 19:20:33 adu: AS OPPOSED TO BEING DEAD! 19:20:34 YAY! 19:20:37 YAY! 19:20:39 wait 19:20:42 what? 19:20:51 asie: Oooh, are you new? 19:20:59 no 19:21:02 Oh 19:21:06 i'm actually old, just stopped coming here for a few years 19:21:09 with brief interruptions 19:21:12 in which i did visit 19:21:13 asie: adu just hasn't been online when I was recently 19:21:15 but now i'm sticking around 19:21:19 Yay! 19:21:26 asie: Have you ever played Nomic? 19:21:31 Yes. 19:21:32 I love Nomic! 19:21:34 I ran a Nomic on Reddit once 19:21:40 good times 19:21:49 asie: Yay! I'm trying to start one over Github and just need one more player :) 19:21:52 https://github.com/hppavilion1/github-lambdanomic 19:21:56 Wait 19:21:58 With issues and pull requests? 19:22:11 :| 19:23:56 I'm so thrilled that I'm not dead 19:24:01 asie: Yeah, basically 19:24:07 asie: It's the best idea I had 19:24:21 We wshould really have a `rewelcome 19:24:37 asie: GitHub is an OK platform for it, for one particular reason: Branches 19:25:07 What do branches buy us? 19:25:52 prooftechnique: The ability to fork off games 19:25:59 (Not to be confused with actual forking) 19:26:08 (Not to be confused with fucking of any sort) 19:26:13 (xD) 19:27:44 asie: Is there a problem with doing it that way? Rule proposals are done via issues, not pull requests, mind you 19:28:07 GitHub does not have the best of interfaces 19:28:21 asie: It has a decent interface and hosts everything for me. 19:28:42 asie: And you use issues to propose rules, not pull requests, because that would be /pretty/ stupid 19:28:49 asie: Feel like playing at all? 19:28:53 Not sure. 19:28:58 I might just pop in on a random day 19:29:08 OK 19:29:19 asie: I need one more player to make it work xD 19:29:28 You don't xD 19:29:34 Because there are 3, and I want 4 players minimum (1 proposes a rule, 3 to vote) 19:29:41 Just add time 19:29:48 asie: ? 19:31:17 asie: Also, the game hasn't started yet, but the initial ruleset is complete, so I can't add time :P 19:31:35 Yes you can 19:31:40 asie: How? 19:31:45 You've just added 1.5 minutes of time between your last posts. 19:31:49 as in, on IRC 19:31:55 If you wait longer, you add more time. 19:32:00 xD 19:32:04 No xD. 19:32:06 Time is serious business. 19:32:23 I was thinking about a nomic based on Juno. The hard part is figuring out what sort of messages constitute a nomic 19:32:38 asie: Also, one of the existing players failed to follow the repo, and isn't showing up on IRC, so they won't get a memo when the game updates 19:32:44 Or when they have to vote 19:32:45 :/ 19:33:04 adu: Are you AFK? 19:33:36 earendel: Hi 19:34:03 (wait, I think I confused earendel with Elronnd) 19:34:36 hello anyway 19:34:42 earendel: Yep, same to you 19:34:57 earendel: You wouldn't happen to be a Nomic player, would you? 19:35:08 nope, sry. 19:35:12 OK :/ 19:35:50 `? elrond 19:36:12 Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves. 19:36:58 prooftechnique: You're part of gh λ-n, right? Do you know of anyone who would like to join so we can have enough people? 19:38:45 `wisdom 19:38:52 4chan/4chan is twice as loud as stereo. 19:44:31 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:49:53 hppavilion[2]:I'm part of a what? 19:50:15 prooftechnique: The Nomic I'm doing over GitHub. I think you joined, didn't you? 19:50:21 Oh. Yes 19:50:26 I didn't know that's what it was called 20:16:44 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Rjhunjhunwala * New user account 20:29:36 hppavilion[2]: hi 20:29:40 hppavilion[2]: I was afk 20:29:49 adu: Ah 20:30:03 hppavilion[2]: but not I am AK 20:30:09 = at keyboard 20:30:15 OK 20:30:29 s/not/now/ 20:30:51 adu: I'm attempting to write a compiler 20:31:09 hppavilion[2]: good news 20:31:32 adu: I've got a thing that outputs ASM given the manual AST for an arithmetic expression (only using signed 64-bit integers) 20:31:37 And I have a typechecker 20:31:49 Of course, it doesn't output the /right/ ASM yet, but oh well 20:31:54 lol 20:35:33 -!- p34k has quit. 20:38:00 [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46608 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+1922) Created page with "= S.I.L.O.S = == Summary == S.I.L.O.S language of the future "All of the challenge of assembly all of the slowness of the jvm" A minimalist language which strives to be Turing..." 20:44:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:45:51 the initial sentence got me hooked up 20:58:54 -!- adu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:17:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:21:12 -!- adu has joined. 21:21:36 hais523 21:21:45 hi 21:21:50 adu: Did I ask you if you wanted to play lambda-nomic yet? 21:22:02 hppavilion[2]: so is it a lisp compiler? 21:22:09 hppavilion[2]: I don't think so 21:22:17 adu: No, it's a C-ish language 21:22:25 adu: Do you want to play lambda-nomic? Over GitHub? 21:22:39 hppavilion[2]: so did you write your own assembler too? 21:22:55 adu: I'm writing an assembler that will convert to another assembler and become x86 21:23:06 ah 21:23:15 I did so because I can't be bothered to learn x86 yet 21:23:21 Currently, the assembler is interpreted though 21:23:34 hppavilion[2]: so it's a VM 21:24:04 adu: Currently, yes, but compiling the intermediate ASM to x86 ASM should be relatively trivial 21:24:25 If I design it right, that is 21:24:33 hppavilion[2]: I should try to make an MMIX JIT 21:24:48 The problem is getting the language to go into the intermediate ASM in the first place 21:25:12 I'm trying to make it calculate (3+(-9))*(-2) = 12, but it keeps spitting out 18 and I can't figure out why 21:25:23 adu: So do you want to play that nomic? 21:25:31 hppavilion[2]: what's a nomic? 21:25:46 `? nomic 21:25:47 adu: It's a game of Nomic. 21:25:48 we need an entry for this 21:25:56 nomic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:25:59 adu: Nomic is a game where you modify its own rules 21:26:00 this is the second time I've seen that question asked this week 21:26:15 `le/rn Nomic is a game where you modify the rules of the game, at least at first 21:26:16 No output. 21:26:17 nomic = ¯\(°[ZWSP])/¯ 21:26:24 It's a joke, but it's actually accurate :) 21:26:47 yes 21:26:50 (Not that funny of a joke, but a joke nonetheless) 21:26:57 although few nomics remove the self-modification altogether 21:27:02 what kind of game is it? 21:27:05 (and if they did, they would cease to be nomics and just be games) 21:27:06 ais523: For what purpose? 21:27:13 nomic's kind-of game-complete 21:27:21 in the same way that BF is Turing-complete 21:27:23 adu: Read rules.md at https://github.com/hppavilion1/github-lambdanomic 21:27:26 given any game, a nomic can imitate that game 21:27:28 adu: That's one example of a nomic 21:27:44 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic 21:27:44 ais523: Any computable game 21:28:02 no, any game 21:28:36 coppro: "This rule is only valid if the current program halts: ..." 21:29:08 hppavilion[2]: you can enact uncomputable rules in a Nomic just fine, you might just have problems enforcing them 21:29:15 ais523: Fair enough 21:29:17 nomics actually raise a lot of philosophical problems about how games work 21:29:23 because I often see people break rules intentionally 21:29:50 and the most common view is that such rules breaches actually didn't happen, although some nomics add other methods of handling them 21:29:55 ais523: Oooh, a nomic rule where breaking the rules can, in some scenarios, have some benefit 21:29:59 however, if you have a rule, and consequences for breaking it, is it even a rule any more? 21:30:08 ais523: like putting all the money in the center of the board instead of the bank in Monopoly 21:30:39 hppavilion[2]: so? 21:30:48 hppavilion[2]: if you had a game with that as a rule, then the nomic can imitate that game 21:31:24 ais523: The HTML 5 specification defines what valid documents are and also what to do in the case of invalid documents. 21:31:43 shachaf: that's because it's two specs 21:31:47 one for clients and the other for servers 21:32:02 the spec for clients includes a description of what to do if connected to a non-compliant server 21:33:54 * adu <3 scholar.google.com 21:37:56 adu: So nomic? 21:39:54 hppavilion[2]: what about it? 21:40:31 adu: Would you like to join my game of nomic over GitHub? 21:40:45 hppavilion[2]: oh, no thanks 21:40:50 OK 21:40:54 I have very little time as is 21:41:47 hppavilion[2]: I must admit it's utility as a microcosm of the U.S. legal system is interesting 21:42:22 "a remarkably complete microcosm of a functional legal system" 21:43:05 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood). 21:45:07 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:45:19 hppavilion[2]: have you been playing? 21:45:48 adu: No, I've been trying to get enough players to start :P 21:46:03 hppavilion[2]: I see 3 in the players ifle 21:46:05 I need at least 4 and I have 3, though one didn't follow the repo and as such won't get the memo when we start 21:46:36 4 because one person proposes a rule, and 3 is pretty much the bare minimum number of voters for a working game 21:47:08 hppavilion[2]: I'd like to see a game on a shelf in 5 years with a big sticker that says "started as a nomic" 21:47:36 adu: Would lol, but can't 21:47:57 hppavilion[2]: why can't lol? 21:48:13 adu: I don't lol 21:48:20 ah 21:48:26 regilious reasons? 21:48:37 hppavilion[2]: are you a grumpy person? 21:49:31 adu: No 21:49:47 adu: I just got overexposed to comedy and developed a tolerance to funny things :P 21:49:56 I still find them funny, but I don't reflexively laugh 21:50:13 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:50:28 hppavilion[2]: oh no, 4chan has immunized you to humor 21:51:08 adu: Not 4chan 21:51:17 the internet? 21:51:32 cat pics? 21:51:48 The Daily Show? 21:51:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 21:51:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:51:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host). 21:51:54 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 21:55:05 hppavilion[2]: I genuinly hope you get your humor back, it's a vital life skill 21:55:36 adu: I don't lack humor, I just don't laugh out loud at funny things 21:56:18 well, neither do I but I still say "lol" when the corner of my mouth starts to smile 21:57:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 21:57:47 maybe we should make our own acronym for silent LOLs, like "Silent & Merry" or S&M for short 21:58:07 https://youtu.be/zMLE7a3faI4 i like the game 22:03:21 -!- boily has joined. 22:11:39 `wisdom 22:11:45 holy water/Holy water is water made by boiling the hell out of Spain. 22:14:35 -!- Alcest has joined. 22:16:55 where boiling = applying boily 22:17:25 * boily thwacks olsner 22:17:32 fungot, are you boiling? 22:17:33 b_jonas: i'm using some cvs version of plt bindings for fuse, if anyone here actually read on lisp by graham as an intro to programming and problem solving. and a bad one 22:17:36 hellolsner. you scored 0.9 shachafs for that. 22:17:42 :D 22:21:22 boily: What's shachaf's average shachaf score? 22:21:35 boily: Also, what's the Cosmic Background Shachafery's level? 22:22:06 what's the banana equivalent shachaf dose? 22:23:25 b_jellonas, hppavellon[2]. 22:23:35 hellochaf. are you bananas? 22:23:53 ask fungot 22:23:53 shachaf: good gracious i leave for two or three words ( and trap to gc if it exceeds 8 when leaving the page, but it 22:24:00 `? banana 22:24:03 banana? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:24:18 `le/rn banana/nananananananananananananananana. 22:24:20 `? pineapple 22:24:23 Learned «banana» 22:24:24 Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable. 22:24:44 if not bananas, I think he might be ananas 22:25:06 `culprits wisdom/pineapple 22:25:09 shachaf shachaf oerjan elliott boily olsner 22:41:44 -!- nooga has joined. 22:42:46 :D 22:43:39 boily: and here I am 22:44:19 nhellooga! 22:44:50 at last! one of my random @tells worked! ha ha ha. mwah ah ah ah ah. MWAAH AH AH AH AH!!! 22:44:58 bhellooily 22:45:06 whoa whoa whoa 22:45:08 `? nooga 22:45:09 no. 22:45:13 wat 22:45:15 noooooooooooooga is the correct spelling 22:45:24 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:45:48 sure, I'll respond to noo+ga 22:47:20 `? noooooooooooooga 22:47:21 noooooooooooooga? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:48:30 nooga: Do you mean /no(o+ga)?/? 22:49:01 ah christ 22:49:03 uh 22:49:08 nooga is different to nooodl then?? 22:49:08 yes, you got me 22:49:30 Phantom_Helloover. they are different entities. 22:49:45 hellynn! 22:49:48 cough cough 22:50:29 are there any new, interesting bf derivatives? 22:51:03 new, interesting, derivative: pick two. 22:52:01 bf derivative, interesting: pick one? 22:52:59 :> 22:53:22 wait who's nooga then 22:53:24 polish? 22:53:26 friends with asie? 22:53:40 oh, have you seen him lately? 22:54:23 nooga: He was on just a little bit ago 22:54:31 is nooga a kind of nougat? 22:54:34 In fact 22:54:40 asie: Someone's looking for you 22:55:21 shachaf: nougat theme was raised 2 or 3 years ago IIRC 22:55:30 Ugh, can't get my compiler to compile 22:55:34 Because I'm an idiot 22:55:44 What I'm trying to do should be simple 22:56:01 I want -(-x) to compile into the proper ASM 22:56:06 Without optimization 22:56:12 So it should spit out x 22:56:17 Phantom_Hoover: yup, Polish but I'm not friends with asie, never had a chance to meet him ;P 22:56:47 yes the second is a nooodl-property, you have obviously become a hybrid individual in my mind 22:57:18 Phantom_Hoover: Sort of like \oren\ and oerjan for me in my first few weeks? 22:57:45 well that's a really weird hybrid 22:57:56 Phantom_Hoover: o..r..n 22:58:07 Phantom_Hoover: I've been idling here since 2005 I think 22:58:09 oerjan and oren both fit the pattern 22:58:16 o.*r.*n 22:58:17 but then forgot to run irssi one day 22:59:52 no i mean as the notional person 23:00:12 Ah 23:00:28 .* <-- most useless regex ever 23:00:41 "I want... well, just give me whatever. I don't give a shit" 23:02:32 oerjan and int-e are two resonance structures for the same molecule. 23:02:41 "[^"]*" ;d 23:03:40 nooga: hellooga 23:04:11 shachaf: forgot an n 23:04:19 Did I? 23:04:36 `culprits wisdom/nooga 23:04:44 oerjan elliott nooga Bike FreeFull elliott Sgeo olsner oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia 23:04:50 shachaf: Do you know anything about compilation? 23:04:57 I know a few things. 23:05:27 (Whether any of them are about compilation is confidential.) 23:05:52 shachaf: What should I compile - (negation) to? 23:06:04 Allowing compilation to be recursive? 23:06:11 Assuming I have to use SUB or RSUB 23:07:32 NEG 23:07:44 mynamello. SYN SYN ENQ. 23:07:46 hppavilion[2]: the easiest way is to write an interpreter and write a program that traces its execution and dumps the trace as the compiled form 23:08:07 of interpreter's input 23:09:51 nooga: That sounds like a joke 23:09:59 nooga: So I'm just going to ignore it 23:10:07 as you wish 23:10:08 myname: I'm using SUB and RSUB 23:10:12 but then check out pypy 23:11:57 hppavilion[2]: What do you compile anything to? 23:13:58 shachaf: ? 23:14:13 shachaf: Ah, to ASM 23:14:17 A generic ASM 23:14:36 Inspired, of all places, by TIS-100 (without the parallellity) 23:15:06 ew 23:15:34 nooga: What? 23:15:35 -x is always 0-x 23:15:37 I'm not sure what the question is. 23:15:42 myname: Yes... 23:15:48 * hppavilion[2] thinks 23:15:53 * hppavilion[2] is probably an idiot 23:16:01 myname: how do you compile y-x ? 23:16:11 sub y,x 23:16:14 * hppavilion[2] may have left out crucial details that hppavilion[1] forgot were the core of the issue 23:16:24 substitute y for 0 ? 23:16:24 yes 23:16:36 myname: SUB is unary and is basically "decrement the accumulator by n" 23:16:38 tadaaa 23:17:29 mov akk, 0 23:17:31 what if the argument is < 0 ? 23:17:32 sub x 23:18:25 (still 0-x) 23:18:27 Just disallow negation. 23:18:28 myname: And... hm... this seems 1000000 times easier, but every time I go back it becomes difficult 23:18:34 shachaf: Solution! 23:18:51 Problem: P xed, and I do not want people to x 23:18:52 "go back"? 23:18:59 myname: I was asking hppavilion[2] 23:19:01 Solution: THOU SHALT NOT x 23:19:20 myname: about his architecture limitations ;d 23:19:34 hppavilion[2]: what would SUB -10 do ? 23:19:37 nnnso? 23:19:41 I think I know my problem 23:19:47 nooga: add 10, most likely 23:19:56 Your problem is that you don't know the target architecture. 23:20:03 then: LD 0; SUB x ? 23:20:05 shachaf: That too 23:20:13 shachaf: Which is odd, given that I made it 23:21:51 THERE we go 23:23:16 next time design an OISC 23:23:28 nooga: No 23:23:49 why, they're awesome, TTAs and stuff 23:25:11 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 23:25:16 I've once made a TTA computer from 74 chips on a huge breadboard 23:25:33 and then lost the breadboard, which was the most expensive part of that precious rig 23:29:59 YES 23:30:00 IT WORKS 23:30:17 * hppavilion[2] happily claps to himself 23:32:35 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye). 23:32:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:32:54 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 23:33:03 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Client Quit). 23:34:10 myname: I got it working 23:34:12 :) 23:34:20 I just had to rewrite the compilation from scratch 23:34:43 -!- lambda-11235 has joined. 23:35:53 lambda-11235: Hi! 23:39:26 I came up with a great use for ubsan to implement a weak version UB-C the other day - UB-C is a C dialect where you can only use undefined behavior, but the weaker version might only e.g. require that each statement invoke UB or that each function must UB before returning 23:39:43 so if you implement the ubsan error callbacks so they just set a flag, you could have other instrumented code (profiling instrumentation perhaps?) check the flag to ensure that some UB has been triggered and abort if it hasn't 23:40:08 Nasal Demon C. 23:40:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:40:21 yeah, I might call it Nasal Demon Tribute 23:44:27 someone's impression of american voters http://heltnormalt.no/truthfacts 23:46:09 * oerjan wonders who makes that comic anyway... 23:47:45 oh it's wulff & morgenthaler 23:50:27 oerjan: Translation? 23:50:41 all the comics on that site have norwegian text but often the translators slip up just enough to see that many of them are translated from danish. 23:51:09 hppavilion[2]: "american voters" "idiot" "idiot with a weapon" 23:51:19 Ah 23:51:49 hppavilion[2]: YOU ARE NOT HELPING THEIR CASE 23:52:01 oerjan: HOW SO 23:52:38 i thought i'd said enough that the meaning would be obvious. 23:52:41 Ah 23:53:32 hppavilion[2]: Hello. 23:56:15 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:56:27 he\\oren\. AAAAAAAAAAAAA? 23:56:53 <\oren\> I just typed in my work password to my home compuer eight-ten times before I realized. 23:57:06 ah, so your password is AAAAAAAAAAAAA? 23:57:13 <\oren\> I got really frustrated with my own stupidity 23:57:42 <\oren\> no, it's a digimon and some random number 23:57:58 <\oren\> much like a 14 year old's yahoo email 23:58:16 maybe the universe is running out of intelligence flux, it would explain so much 23:58:50 hellœrjan. you're saying intelligence flows, much like telluric currents? 23:59:18 <\oren\> I think I 23:59:28 boiclearly. 23:59:31 <\oren\> will add maybe 5 to 10 more mods