< 1455840413 724821 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d JOIN :#esoteric < 1455840568 976186 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455840887 721759 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellu < 1455840931 877324 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1455841172 857061 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1]. < 1455841209 738268 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I'm implementing a BF-like language (not a derivative, if anyone asks) in Haskell :) < 1455841216 458252 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because I want to learn Haskell < 1455841218 562232 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1455841565 935724 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Your realname gets cut off in a slightly awkward location < 1455841679 26307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :au contraire, it is a moving tribute to the dangers faced by sex workers < 1455841735 291660 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh? < 1455841753 130481 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1455841843 934497 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only Phantom_Hoover was a teenager, he has a real name! < 1455841859 512592 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: learning Haskell is always a great good! < 1455841870 971559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mystery of the man is finally unravelled < 1455841897 452960 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Yes, exactly < 1455842141 106624 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: *a Haskell < 1455842277 871421 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadu < 1455842588 972978 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing i ordered from russia cme today < 1455842657 843900 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Portativnaya Igrovaya Pristavka GAMEBOX" < 1455842716 554505 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a clone of the nintendo game boy advance sp < 1455842798 667110 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Did it come from Denmark? < 1455842835 131541 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, archangelsk < 1455842878 54010 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1455842891 626635 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language with two PCs? < 1455842979 323496 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh < 1455842997 680478 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Fungeoid with 2 PCs that have gravitational effects on one another < 1455843020 937028 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :O increases the PC's mass, o decreases it < 1455843038 964668 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then generalize it to have more- ERROR: n-BODY PROBLEM < 1455843043 895550 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit < 1455843070 297750 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455843094 323156 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still use approximate integration with more than 2 bodies < 1455843122 552289 :Opodeldoc!~Opodeldoc@184.20.162.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455843161 977023 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Oh, right < 1455843182 129710 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: And fungeoids use discreet points*, so that works fairly well < 1455843186 511137 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ooooooh < 1455843199 387216 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungeoid with indiscreet points? < 1455843451 630423 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an urge to write a golphing language in Haskell now < 1455844109 692696 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455844519 739754 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am yet to see a declarative golphing language < 1455844540 404377 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d JOIN :#esoteric < 1455844563 181972 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh they also included some russian bubble gum! tasty! < 1455844722 709036 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :хэ\\орен\! < 1455844859 159622 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bohily! < 1455845166 202543 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where exactly did the design of the standard X cursor font come from? < 1455845207 133764 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hezzo38. probably Xerox. everything eventually comes from there, or Taneb invented it. < 1455845490 871034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find some of a bit strange such as why there is a heart shape cursor and what does XC_bogosity supposed to mean, and also that some things are missing, there are some things I would have added into the new cursor font < 1455846213 148027 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also add: XC_xterm_sideways, XC_stop_sign, XC_eraser, XC_left_right_side, XC_top_bottom_side, XC_exchange_clockwise, XC_sb_down_left_arrow, XC_sb_down_right_arrow, XC_sb_up_left_arrow, XC_sb_up_right_arrow, XC_based_arrow_left, XC_based_arrow_right, XC_foot, XC_explode, XC_magnify, XC_magnify_plus, XC_magnify_minus, XC_cross_diag, XC_talk < 1455846227 956021 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully once added to standard X cursor font, these would be sufficient for nearly everyone < 1455846542 693292 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: how is russian bubble gum different from ordinary bubble gum? < 1455846558 845752 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1455846575 601440 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the optimal system for some sort of declarative golphing language would be a rewriter < 1455846602 126643 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: it has wrappers and comics in russian < 1455846812 908099 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should perhaps my declgolph be based on modal logic? < 1455847019 489886 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modal Logic Stack? xD < 1455847226 831833 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tibvcddoepbttsgb JOIN :#esoteric < 1455848196 171483 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455848422 813091 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PROPELLED CHICKEN < 1455848634 635257 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1455849008 936429 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1455849055 201282 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455849710 952094 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1455849715 593289 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to prolog < 1455849729 555866 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want something that says "X is human if all parents of X are human" < 1455849838 94987 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently have human(X) :- parent(P, X), forall(P, human(P))., but that works even if only one parent is human < 1455849907 583011 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to change the font for menus in Firefox? < 1455849910 39685 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, human(X) :- parent(P, X), human(P). < 1455850042 335097 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1455850090 7736 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asked on ##prolog < 1455850401 86837 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((q -> p) -> q) -> q < 1455850401 283250 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1455850458 174975 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455850458 371747 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1455850458 371811 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1455850458 371837 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1455850474 843702 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1455850509 819180 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1455850698 727006 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would need continuations in order to make the function ((q -> p) -> q) -> q < 1455850716 769256 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah < 1455850727 921166 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You wouldn't happen to know Prolog, would you? < 1455850913 129291 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Prolog < 1455851125 140960 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OK :/ < 1455851272 396213 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii JOIN :#esoteric < 1455851282 664418 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1455851306 849865 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455851408 293603 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: You new? Or just in hawaii? < 1455851419 408485 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :im new < 1455851433 669869 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the hawaii reference for? < 1455851477 664886 :adu!~ajr@2601:155:8401:83fb:c4cf:83c5:2cdf:9d5e QUIT :Quit: adu < 1455852097 920151 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kawaii, not hawaii < 1455852128 735842 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(可愛い) < 1455852179 160866 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :こんなに可愛くないと思うけど…… < 1455852278 626687 :Guest6991!~nitrix@104.236.108.9 QUIT :Changing host < 1455852278 784586 :Guest6991!~nitrix@unaffiliated/nitrix JOIN :#esoteric < 1455852284 76826 :Guest6991!~nitrix@unaffiliated/nitrix NICK :nitrix < 1455852663 287980 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1455853084 58139 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejj40.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455853798 868970 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one piece of code i copied off stackoverflow to make arin.ga was a huge security risk that allowed remote code execution < 1455853818 610631 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, php7 didn't support it < 1455853841 826800 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so updating from 5.5 broke everything and i rewrote it < 1455853855 637771 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's safe \o/ < 1455853987 186159 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1455854066 135136 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: https://arin.ga/yXaSVU < 1455854082 625178 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1455854516 110590 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455854635 682502 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33022253/obfuscated-code-last-digit WTF that answer < 1455854647 624298 :tromp_!~tromp@24.190.11.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455854693 536564 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :he used [ ] . in the "comments" < 1455854699 735206 :earendel!~anuska@176.0.137.170 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455854881 126958 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[++++++++++>,----------]<. isn't this easier < 1455855209 284079 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455855383 597604 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to have a subroutine-less language that can function as competently as any other language < 1455855637 412651 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: Do macros count as subroutines? < 1455855650 77587 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1455855650 854088 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1455855666 609006 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk < 1455855668 420155 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1455855686 960784 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't have recursion but that's okay < 1455855713 869897 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it wouldn't be turing complete < 1455855725 226141 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need recursion for that < 1455855745 714111 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: LaTeX is a macro language, and people have written language interpreters in it. < 1455855746 382056 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can fake recursion by building your own stack < 1455855770 401445 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455855774 897801 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I've written code in a no-recursion system (megazeux) < 1455855775 210495 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought LaTeX was just a text markup language < 1455855825 382794 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is turing complete language with a focus on typography < 1455855830 990114 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't \newcommand{boo}{\boo{#1}} recursive? < 1455855841 397584 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that each robot executes a slice of code up to the next 'wait' on each frame, so your code is divided into robots instead of functions < 1455855928 935231 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr < 1455855932 55637 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it called < 1455855938 703900 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In TeX, calling a macro at the end of a macro definition will be tail call < 1455855972 241366 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii : megazeux ( http://vault.digitalmzx.net/index.php ) < 1455855978 298846 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1455855995 401811 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually does have subroutine calls now but they were added-in super late < 1455856021 258661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example \def\ecall#1{\begingroup\edef\next{\endgroup#1}\next} is defining a temporary macro \next with causes it to be restored and does other stuff and then it tail call that macro. < 1455856043 826325 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore it does not clobber any other \next definition < 1455856048 1217 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are essentially tacked-on, the language itself is built around 'goto' < 1455856185 703154 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for example \ecall{\uppercase{\romannumeral\chapno}} will type the uppercase roman numbers of the chapter number. < 1455856235 668290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made up some MegaZeux games too < 1455856245 599441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my MegaZeux game? < 1455856259 344120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as "Super ASCII MZX Town" and "Potion of Confusing" < 1455856415 602269 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a language that works by just moving stuff around < 1455856503 587134 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some guy figured out how to do a turing complete language with only the MOV x86 instruction < 1455856595 12358 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I think it abuses mixes of 8bit, 16bit and 32bit instructions < 1455856719 336942 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455856724 238056 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody on ##programming mentioned GNU not inventing a LISP-based shell < 1455856728 195508 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I want to do that < 1455856816 809859 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's scsh < 1455856819 936214 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://scsh.net/ < 1455856823 214374 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gnu < 1455856824 175073 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]! < 1455856834 87763 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot @messages < 1455856835 229481 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but read their docs < 1455856835 387509 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Who are you? < 1455856837 915243 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot @messages < 1455856842 984123 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1455856843 203273 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you're thinking of my brother, hppavilion[1] < 1455856858 684031 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://scsh.net/docu/html/man.html this this this this this this page < 1455856871 422351 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :best documentation ever < 1455856874 410533 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: ah, prototype, yes < 1455856883 64216 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prototypes can be pretty terrible < 1455856888 409867 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: ? < 1455857003 127074 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is...not fun to program in < 1455857010 497971 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: That is amazing documentation < 1455857027 815992 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is sooooooooooooo hard to work with < 1455857037 580541 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Scribble < 1455857053 503672 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only redeeming quality of TeX is Lua < 1455857062 66022 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like TeX it is pretty good < 1455857064 250560 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the difference between a shell language that isn't in the vein of bash and any other language? < 1455857091 495438 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I would like TeX if it's underlying programming language / platform was something other than TeX < 1455857096 461929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use Plain TeX, without Lua or PDF or LaTeX or XeTeX or those other extensions < 1455857106 930631 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: kill me now < 1455857113 555866 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: No < 1455857116 179320 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX as a typesetting/document preparation is great. TeX as a language is miserable < 1455857123 46422 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: You should probably see a psychiatrist < 1455857143 881413 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like Tcl would have been a better fit than LuaTeX < 1455857164 888956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: OK, yes, although still many thing can be made with TeX including sorting and indexing and everything implemented in a pure TeX code < 1455857180 616614 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: don't get me wrong, I'm not a newbie or anything, or a passer-by, I've written dozens of papers in LaTeX, and used dozens of packages for image formats, diagrams, plots, etc. < 1455857193 225617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And chess parsing < 1455857207 286319 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scribble is better < 1455857236 579973 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: agreed < 1455857244 521340 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my problem is that the langauge, at this point, is incredibly inconsistent < 1455857255 51100 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: yes, you understand me < 1455857257 465782 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: with which? < 1455857274 899874 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: are you able to read my messages? < 1455857286 517221 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: no I mean, what were you agreeing with? < 1455857291 663738 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I can see them < 1455857295 364674 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: you < 1455857303 868794 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that TeX is inconsistent, or that Tcl is a better fit? < 1455857307 622358 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: I think we are saying the same thing < 1455857310 345931 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adun't be difficult < 1455857326 89672 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: oh, Tcl is a clusterf**k of sh*t < 1455857333 438493 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1455857349 492607 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tcl isn't very good in my opinion I think? < 1455857351 52444 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All software sucks < 1455857351 942877 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has issues, but the "everything is a string mode" would work for TeX < 1455857353 846313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have preferred SQL < 1455857354 153014 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All hardware sucks < 1455857355 789460 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1455857359 462535 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: not so < 1455857363 70722 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do all standards suck? < 1455857367 130107 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although TeX works fine by itself < 1455857376 897928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Most of the common ones do < 1455857391 629670 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Haskell, Rust, and Opera are pretty amazing < 1455857394 542282 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, scheme implementations may all suck (especially the hardware ones), but does scheme itself suck? < 1455857420 967558 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1455857422 908868 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: interestingly, Rust is Mozilla's attempt to out-do Opera < 1455857435 313666 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Da fuq? < 1455857438 667892 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unimpressed by Rust < 1455857439 31651 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera the browser, right? < 1455857459 70735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Athena widget set is good < 1455857470 218531 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellloooo 1992 < 1455857483 721535 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Opera is a browser, Firefox is a browser, Mozilla is the community behind Firefox, Rust is a language designed by Mozilla to implement Servo, Servo is going to replace Firefox in 2050 < 1455857488 279896 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just discovered this really new widget toolkit guys, it's called "Motif" < 1455857490 964459 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty neat < 1455857497 154566 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1455857503 135096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :diginet: I have seen it too, I prefer Xaw < 1455857513 359219 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: Servo is the goal, Rust is the means < 1455857514 190502 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: amateur, SunView FTW < 1455857527 336722 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: So what is the difference between a shell language and a normal scripting language? < 1455857532 622891 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perspective < 1455857542 942279 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be honest though, NeWS was vastly superior to X11 and anything today for that matter) < 1455857552 497176 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera, the browser that abandoned its rendering engine and shell for Blink and being basically a Chrome patch? :) < 1455857559 48947 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2] : the decade in which it was designed? ;) < 1455857562 914700 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just kidding) < 1455857571 842760 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: A shell language usually doesn't require syntax to run external commands, a scripting language generally requires system("shell command") < 1455857579 58817 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1455857580 94552 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the scrollbars in Xaw are good, other programs don't implement it (although I managed to write a XBL binding that implements it, it doesn't work perfectly) < 1455857613 623748 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a widget toolkit per se, but I love Lazarus for pascal < 1455857616 305825 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so easy to use < 1455857665 762421 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making a JavaScript program for accessing Xlib, and then I will make the widget set on top of that too < 1455857708 722572 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Anything else? < 1455857756 424264 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also make a typesetting library in JavaScript that can make DVI file output, and can use that as another alternative for TeX too I suppose. < 1455857849 475332 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: I'm a big fan of 2 types of software: highly maintainable (which generally implies highly documented), and software that is not in need of maintainance < 1455857852 26384 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Node.js does not implement Generator.prototype.return so I made up my own implmentation, which is imperfect though. It creates a new object and then throws it into the generator and then catches it. It also overrides the next method of that generator to catch that object too < 1455857884 880785 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Do you like my types of software? < 1455857897 737069 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what is your types? < 1455857973 266489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, mainly the UNIX types, where the program acts as a filter doing the input/output by stdin/stdout, there are others too, you could look < 1455857998 216803 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: where can I look? < 1455858038 562493 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as, I made: dvipbm (takes DVI from stdin and renders it to PBM on stdout; can be used for host-based printing), amigamml (takes MML on stdin and produces MOD or XM on stdout), playmod (takes MOD/S3M/IT/XM/various other formats on stdin and produces raw audio data on stdout) < 1455858077 7637 :Guest58776!~cinch@107.170.175.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455858078 684879 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard of PBM or MOD < 1455858093 125330 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not sure if thats useful < 1455858095 322355 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOD and XM are formats for music (MOD is the Amiga format, and XM is the PC format) < 1455858118 79675 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MML = MathML? < 1455858130 26641 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, MML is Music Macro Language < 1455858141 442934 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then I've never heard of MML < 1455858162 842748 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DVi = the thing that TeX supported before PDF? < 1455858170 488008 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PBM is a simple bitmap picture format; multiple pages can also be stored. < 1455858180 215169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, DVI is the standard output format of TeX. < 1455858180 372939 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a textual waveform and/or module file format? < 1455858192 539317 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitmap, that's what I use PNG for < 1455858221 545159 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about DVI, except it's not PDF < 1455858245 514579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, although PBM is black and white only and is a much simpler format. Also the program foo2zjs (which comes with the printer driver) will take PBM on stdin and produce on stdout the format needed by the printer. < 1455858269 387010 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what I did? I wrote a script to count the number of pages in a PDF using only regexes < 1455858305 730320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore if you make the pipe "dvipbm | foo2zjs | lp" then you can print a DVI file in that way. I wrote a shell script that does this, and this is how I do printing on my computer < 1455858319 809405 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's lp? < 1455858322 731695 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: So what would be good for a LISPy shell? < 1455858324 197796 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 PRIVMSG #esoteric :line printer < 1455858332 898249 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a line printer? < 1455858334 380776 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lp command is the UNIX command for printing < 1455858344 317976 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was lpr? < 1455858363 281355 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: It prints lines. I think it's the old way we did IO in the olden days < 1455858365 270970 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lpr command will also do < 1455858378 626166 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are a bit different < 1455858391 264450 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lpr is POSIX, I still don't know what "lp" is < 1455858415 106375 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite the name, the printer does not necessarily have to be a line printer and can be any printer. < 1455858418 55564 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for how much time was physical printing used all that much before video screens took over? < 1455858429 204211 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[2]: I don't know the olden days, I only know USB and HTTP < 1455858636 290974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually dvipbm supports several command-line options, including page order, page filter, origin, page size, resolution, font finder, and more. If the page order is modified, then the filename must be specified on the command line; otherwise the input can come from a pipe and doesn't have to be seekable. < 1455858648 717712 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AmigaMML completely ignores any command-line arguments though. < 1455858805 443898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know any 6502 programming? < 1455858851 870677 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1455858852 276101 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1455858857 53192 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like shumway is getting mature enough to work for my purposes < 1455858878 870354 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1455858937 12662 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1455859004 856848 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I like pipelines < 1455859007 147591 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1455859023 506412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Yes I think it is a good design too, so I design the program in that way < 1455859026 395476 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided to uninstall adobe flash rather than update it this time < 1455859054 842693 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UNIX design is supposed to make every program a filter, and to me it is good idea therefore that is what I do < 1455859083 431656 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for example, I've tried the unifont tools, TTF tools (I think one was called TTF2XML), but I wrote one that converted TTF2JSON and another for JSON2TTF so I could edit a font that was already monospace, so that Window$ could see that "monospace bit" < 1455859118 625731 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION f**king hates Window$ < 1455859156 695514 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I have one or two websites that still rely on Flash and that I cannot give up < 1455859159 700299 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1455859207 977228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have Windows, but the CPU of that computer failed so I purchased a new computer with Linux; this Linux is much better < 1455859210 80526 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you checked whether they work with shumway? < 1455859232 484354 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've never had window$, I alternate between mac and linux < 1455859240 315745 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shumway is a plugin for firefox that runs flash things in html5 < 1455859254 643863 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, I removed the default window manager and desktop environment and all of that stuff, and instead using i3-wm < 1455859271 385209 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently using a linux machine from my windows machine via ssh < 1455859283 935667 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: nicovideo is one, I'm not sure if shumway supports Flash video? < 1455859290 825563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also added LANG=C into my startup file in order to fix the locale < 1455859310 954445 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I use emacs < 1455859328 435753 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although I prefer vim, which is what I use < 1455859375 339197 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For terminal emulator, I use xterm < 1455859405 935766 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried vim, but I can't figure out how to delete a rectangle in vim < 1455859419 896561 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to support most flash videos I've tried < 1455859438 696903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push control v < 1455859450 9431 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: interesting, I will try it out. thank you. < 1455859458 911885 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you move cursor to highlight what to delete and then you can push d to delete. < 1455859466 418307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how you delete a rectangle in vim. < 1455859469 202430 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^v and then what? < 1455859506 532042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you what < 1455859516 776417 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: and how do you insert "//" in front of 250 lines? < 1455859572 472490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can push V (uppercase) to highlight the lines and then you can type :s/^/\/\// < 1455859590 725178 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: V250jI// < 1455859600 686103 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, ^V* < 1455859604 617275 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so confused < 1455859653 593079 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: in the visual block mode (^V), you can insert text before or after the rectangle by I and A; when you escape the insert mode the change will be applied to every line covered by the block. < 1455859655 514690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of escape you can push control and left bracket, which might be easier to type < 1455859672 374374 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally don't think s/// is a good answer to that < 1455859676 748627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: O, I didn't know that < 1455859684 66388 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I know < 1455859754 902182 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: one neat thing is that, when you are in the visual block mode and you type $, the rectangle covers past the end of line so A will append to every line even when the line lengths may vary. < 1455859772 726314 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get this effect without using $ (AFAIK) < 1455859815 67095 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: I'm not a modal person, which is one of the reasons why I like emacs so much, in emacs, rectangle insert is ^rt and rectangle delete is ^rk, which in my mind is simpler than vim commands < 1455859833 694243 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that vim's visual block mode is half-baked < 1455859843 894597 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not work well with other combinatoric commands < 1455859853 770029 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: is that command or insert mode? < 1455859855 669391 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is still usable < 1455859860 653846 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is another mode < 1455859868 478247 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that's too many modes for me < 1455859870 515811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can configure vim to enable virtual spacing only when visual block mode is selected; that is what I do < 1455859904 967552 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For email, I use Heirloom Mailx. < 1455859926 356917 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were to write my own editor, it would have 2 modes: filesystem, and edit < 1455859945 267478 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejj40.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1455859954 294172 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: if we are being specific, there are the insert mode (i a etc.), the normal mode (), the visual mode (v), the visual line mode (V), the visual block mode (^v), the command mode (:), the language-argument mode (for multi-command arguments). < 1455859973 517854 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the reality people only concern about insert/normal/visual/command distinction < 1455859974 930235 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is so confused... < 1455859994 967406 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :others are more or less combined to similar modes or is almost invisible to the user < 1455859996 845369 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also replace mode by pushing R and also can switch insert/replace by pushing insert key while insert/replace mode is selected < 1455860021 139060 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only concerned with what happens when I press "i" and what happens when I press < 1455860027 830110 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: right. there is also select mode (easy vim?). I put them into the "insert" mode category above. < 1455860057 700741 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other modes are obsticales to my goal < 1455860090 79915 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use nano XD < 1455860092 117728 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: vim tries to be the ultimate TUI editor, which makes things a bit more complex < 1455860099 52572 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I hate nano < 1455860107 276385 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1455860127 693618 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess emacs has the same problem with modes, doesn't it? < 1455860134 497095 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: mostly because it doesn't have rectangle insert < 1455860173 319704 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: ther are only 2 modes in emacs, buffer, and minibuffer < 1455860197 518339 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program to you use for terminal emulator, for window manager, for web browser (including customizations if any), for email (if any), for IRC, for C compiler, etc? < 1455860205 310986 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm referring to major/minor modes < 1455860208 329878 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also also music) < 1455860218 189997 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they are fundamentally different < 1455860224 86713 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that's a different kind of mode < 1455860252 992317 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in every emacs major mode, there are a handful of commands that are the same, regardless < 1455860258 757595 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me the visual mode is an acceptable addition, being able to visualize what the hell is happening with the rectangle area < 1455860273 917476 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/rectangle/selected/* < 1455860280 116084 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is visual mode? < 1455860287 933520 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :selecting things. < 1455860305 869446 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual mode in vim means it select text to operate with < 1455860309 104782 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does that need to be a mode? < 1455860319 2707 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs lets you select things in every major mode < 1455860372 264229 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :every editor I've ever worked with lets you select stuff < 1455860394 863882 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does vim have to be different/difficult? < 1455860420 997172 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: I think it is a consequence of normal-insert split\ < 1455860441 681549 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's rectangle insert < 1455860452 243819 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: I understood all of those words separately, but not in a sentance < 1455860473 606852 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: for example, putting "//" before 250 lines < 1455860475 285409 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you split the normal mode and insert mode, you implicitly have a constraint that the cursor movement and insertion cannot coexist < 1455860517 793519 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually in vim you can move cursor even in insert mode, by using the arrow keys. In normal mode you can use hjkl or arrow keys, and you can also write the number of how many, instead of just one. < 1455860542 173590 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now in normal, GUI-esque editors, there is no such constraint and the single mode has *different* keys for normal cursor movements and selected cursor movements < 1455860558 549006 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is okay, as long as you don't have many ways to move cursors < 1455860573 522601 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "normal" do you mean "command mode"? < 1455860629 418099 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: oh, that. I haven't had to do that in a long time. if i did, I just close nano and open ed < 1455860629 957445 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an aforementioned constraint (yeah, zzo38 is right, this is a bit arcane nowdays but also an important one in vim's principle) you have dozens of cursor-moving commands and having separated them would add another copy of commands < 1455860656 893231 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: I'm a bit conflating the term, but if you think e.g. replacing the character as a command, yes. < 1455860671 813473 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim's "command mode" refers to ex-esque long command prompt followed by : < 1455860708 773429 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it would be easier to have two similar-looking modes with the mostly same set of cursor-moving commands < 1455860727 496768 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: terminal emulator: "iTerm.app" window manager: "WindowServer.app" web browser: "Firefox.app" email: "Thunderbird.app" irc: "Colloquy.app", c compiler: "XCode.app/bin/clang" < 1455860736 709853 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this way modality preserves orthogonality < 1455860780 60545 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455860783 172496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: That is for Macintosh, I suppose; Macintosh is what is using XCode and clang < 1455860795 860452 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, it's mac < 1455860811 677555 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all of the ".app" is also for Macintosh I think < 1455860824 774685 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could do ^W^R, enter ^ for the regex and // for the replacement, then hold down y till you get to the last line, and press ^C < 1455860868 224973 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, clang was invented by Apple because they got tired of upstreaming GCC < 1455860878 778895 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Yes I know taht < 1455860886 588563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using gcc for my own codes, although I also have clang installed since Node.js requires it < 1455860895 636891 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Apple keeps very outdated gcc in xcode < 1455860900 933184 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that < 1455860903 187965 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i typically use tcc < 1455860931 460558 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make my own compiler someday < 1455860948 720383 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My programs will probably with with clang as well as GCC, although you may have to tell clang to use GNU89 mode, since I tend to use GNU extensions < 1455860968 252897 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written several language-to-language transpiler (sometimes similarly behaving like compiler) but it is no like gcc or clang < 1455861029 709576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once written something that converts OASYS binary (a format for text-adventure games) into another format, although I do not have it now < 1455861077 979993 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also WindowServer and Xcode are by Apple, iTerm (despite the i) is third-party < 1455861135 805237 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTerm has an amazing feature where you can broadcast commands to multiple windows... kind of amazing < 1455861184 294506 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure when I would ever do that < 1455861195 946681 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I do it everyday < 1455861236 879529 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1455861258 775627 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for deployment to 50+ servers < 1455861286 123765 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, use ssh + expect < 1455861311 124922 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is for the feature parity with SecureCRT < 1455861326 214890 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many people do use Heirloom Mailx for email though? < 1455861356 292145 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu < 1455861367 183680 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :u do deplyment manually? < 1455861371 184114 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PART :#esoteric < 1455861376 679971 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYy < 1455861408 218599 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: is there a better way? < 1455861421 788147 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: (semi-)automatic deployment is very important nowadays < 1455861433 249271 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: agreed < 1455861456 513509 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: is there a better way? < 1455861499 231821 :\oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511664.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a script that sends the commands you wnat done to the server by ssh and inspects the returned data and alerts you if there is a porblem < 1455861499 396409 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: if you are connecting to multiple servers, you probably can automate things with direct ssh commands (if you haven't automated the connection process itself, good luck) < 1455861504 228222 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1455861525 588533 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several existing solutions to meditate ssh connections too < 1455861549 700633 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used Fabric http://www.fabfile.org/ < 1455861561 260286 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mostly worked well for me < 1455861629 78835 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: I was expecting something like Ansible, Chef, or Puppet < 1455861666 887231 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: Fabric didn't work for me because it requires that all hosts be on the same LAN < 1455861682 588152 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you connect to hosts then? < 1455861701 172428 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: my 50+ servers are on 7 LANS < 1455861722 931349 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh $HOST1 ssh $HOST2 < 1455861730 534153 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work with Fabric < 1455861736 540408 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: did you mean you have 7 network interfaces? < 1455861748 331775 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1455861754 795736 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: no, 7 regions of networks < 1455861755 515929 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... there is a gateway < 1455861760 341006 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :understood < 1455861776 426265 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, each region has a gateway that I ssh to, from there I ssh into the other hosts on the same LAN < 1455861806 235822 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: I think ssh_config can be used to handle such situations, but I haven't tried that < 1455861822 596742 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProxyCommand seems to be one < 1455861877 832345 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: I can't reconfigure my ssh every time I want to connect to a different region < 1455861903 787910 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: uh, you can have different ProxyCommands per host < 1455861913 987004 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: how do I configure that? < 1455861921 724203 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Host foo \n ProxyCommand ... < 1455861940 179551 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man ssh_config` seems to be comprehensive < 1455861954 572571 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1455861967 763775 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1455861968 404860 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1455861988 971678 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /bin < 1455861990 590474 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash \ bunzip2 \ bzcat \ bzcmp \ bzdiff \ bzegrep \ bzexe \ bzfgrep \ bzgrep \ bzip2 \ bzip2recover \ bzless \ bzmore \ cat \ chgrp \ chmod \ chown \ cp \ cpio \ dash \ date \ dd \ df \ dir \ dmesg \ dnsdomainname \ domainname \ echo \ ed \ egrep \ false \ fgrep \ findmnt \ fuser \ grep \ gunzip \ gzexe \ gzip \ hostname \ ip \ kill \ kmod \ less \ < 1455861993 315657 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin < 1455861994 703911 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ ' \ @ \ * \ ؟ \  \  \  \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5quote \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ benvenuto \ bf \ bienvenido \ bienvenue \ blessyou \ bookofeso \ botsnack \ bseen \ bugs \ buttsnack \ ca < 1455862037 889387 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` bin/aaaaaaaaa < 1455862052 157455 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls aaaaaaaaa < 1455862055 108285 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot access aaaaaaaaa: No such file or directory < 1455862061 488658 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man bin/aaaaaaaaa < 1455862063 135422 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1455862068 432654 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1455862079 218697 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`aaaaaaaaa --help < 1455862080 5363 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​--aaaa < 1455862095 395422 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'Nice try.') > bin/man && chmod a+x bin/man < 1455862099 189025 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1455862100 555615 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man ssh_config < 1455862101 215134 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/man: 2: /hackenv/bin/man: Nice: not found < 1455862108 404221 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1455862112 723693 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1455862116 389782 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1455862116 547676 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'echo Nice try.') > bin/man && chmod a+x bin/man < 1455862117 715545 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck me. < 1455862119 252887 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1455862123 539162 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man ssh_config < 1455862124 140638 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try. < 1455862125 190320 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: no thanks < 1455862153 179397 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: is there manpath exposed in HackEgo? < 1455862168 115765 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also thinking about linking to linux.die.net (for example) < 1455862175 571590 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be Linux centerism < 1455862212 331046 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1455862280 468320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1455862390 995090 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`man -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862393 447996 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try. < 1455862411 914768 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1455862420 531375 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` man -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862422 364896 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try. < 1455862425 331593 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. < 1455862428 931162 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /bin/man -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862429 749465 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /bin/man: No such file or directory < 1455862433 571002 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862434 320797 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1455862684 850388 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -c /hackenv/etc/man conf -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862685 886124 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config < 1455862700 260625 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -C /hackenv/etc/man conf -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862705 646963 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for conf \ /usr/bin/man: -M-/hackenv/share/man: No such file or directory \ /usr/bin/man: -M_/hackenv/share/man: No such file or directory \ No manual entry for -M \ /usr/bin/man: /hackenv/share/man-info: No such file or directory \ /usr/bin/man: /hackenv/share/man_info: No such file or directory \ /usr/bin/man: /hackenv/share/man: < 1455862715 636100 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :YEY different errors < 1455862743 621224 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -C /hackenv/etc/man.conf -M /hackenv/share/man info < 1455862745 22659 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for info \ See 'man 7 undocumented' for help when manual pages are not available. < 1455862780 674009 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -C /dev/null -M /usr/share/man info < 1455862783 888877 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/share/groff/1.21/tmac/an-old.tmac:679: warning: can't find macro file `man.local' \ INFO(1) User Commands INFO(1) \ \ \ \ NAME \ info - read Info documents \ \ SYNOPSIS \ info [OPTION]... [MENU-ITEM...] \ \ DESCRIPTION \ Read documentation in Info format. \ \ OPTION < 1455862797 703002 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1455862799 143013 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oOo < 1455862856 604101 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -C /dev/null ssh_config < 1455862859 125146 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for ssh_config < 1455862874 3147 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -C /dev/null -M /usr/share/man ssh_config < 1455862876 198511 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for ssh_config < 1455862967 602424 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /usr/bin/man -C /dev/null /usr/share/man/man5/ssh_config.5.gz < 1455862968 364057 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/usr/bin/man: /usr/share/man/man5/ssh_config.5.gz: No such file or directory \ No manual entry for /usr/share/man/man5/ssh_config.5.gz < 1455863348 721609 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: so it works but it does not have sufficient man pages < 1455863540 220385 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: PFFT < 1455863688 893909 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46410&oldid=46364 5* 03Primo 5* (+1020) 10/* Shortest known "hello world" program. */ < 1455863813 317180 :XorSwap!~XorSwap@wnpgmb016qw-ds01-214-177.dynamic.mtsallstream.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455864719 690962 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455865089 86941 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455865729 154599 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1455866079 322169 :jaboja!~jaboja@aejj40.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1455866553 35310 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455866854 366963 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnird < 1455868077 402378 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i3-wm uses XC_left_ptr as the root window cursor by default, although I prefer XC_X_cursor as the root window cursor (and to use the other cursors for application programs and window decorations), so I put xsetroot into the configuration file so that it does such thing < 1455868226 907468 :tromp_!~tromp@24.190.11.216 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1455868619 105649 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1455868982 417385 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish the C++ standard committee would accept C11 complexes and give a standard way to use them in C++ programs. gcc already makes this possible, but there's some details the standards have to handle. < 1455869029 900432 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's some unfortunate historical conflicts: C11 has a header that defines complex as a macro, which conflicts with a C++11 standard library header that uses it as a type template identifier.) < 1455869058 206853 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is why gcc's implementation of C11 doesn't export that macro in C++ mode.) < 1455869095 388315 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a different idea about how to implement complex numbers in C though < 1455869188 743547 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took the damned committee a lot of time to even get lrint to the C++ standard library. < 1455869232 279056 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There are other ways. GSL has a pure library solution that works in C89 compilers too. < 1455869438 275827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had ideas about operator overloading for C which can be use with structure and union types, although there are several restrictions compared to C++, and also support annotations used by compiler; using this it can implement complex numbers. < 1455869480 774405 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no comma override, and you cannot override the assignment operator directly, but if x is of a structure type (not a pointer to it) then you can override *x and *x=y but not x=y < 1455869548 976768 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also whatever the type of those functions are defined as, then sizeof(*x) and typeof(*x) can also access that type. < 1455869920 754130 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1455869981 154057 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1455870101 137057 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1455870305 143090 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Even if C11 complexes aren't one's favourite interface to complex floats, having them in C++ is useful, since it lets you call third party library functions that take C11 complexes as an argument. Then, if you want, you can write a wrapper around those functions that takes a different C or C++ type. < 1455870448 351053 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I for one like C11 complexes. < 1455870472 909284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does have that advantage I suppose, but I suppose you could even just write the wrapper code in C11 to use it in a C89 code or C++ code or whatever < 1455870531 887105 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, not a wrapper that has no compile-time overhead, since you couldn't put the calls in an inline function body in the header if C++ couldn't parse that. < 1455870538 867889 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1455870539 32417 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1455870552 523406 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/compile-time/run-time/ < 1455870582 933554 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes OK I can know that, but perhaps if it is a LLVM inline function then you can avoid the overhead? < 1455870713 246298 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: maybe, but does that kind of stuff work right now? not every compiler uses LLVM. If I could dream, then if we had full support for portable 16 and 32 byte hardware numeric vector types with all operations known by the compiler and C abi and optimizer (we're actually most of the way there in gcc, but not in many other compilers), then we'd no longer have a need for a complex type that C directly knows about, since you could implement one as a thin < 1455870745 147637 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ then we'd no longer have a need for a complex type that C directly knows about, since you could implement one as a thin wrapper over vector types. < 1455871590 569275 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.223.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455871857 851863 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455872131 847436 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1455872220 577533 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1455873427 679775 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3989 < 1455874659 329722 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1455875034 157972 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1455875143 624977 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455875172 964544 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4024 :D < 1455875413 589423 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1455875608 830618 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455875907 827506 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1455876124 697478 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455877217 136772 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.trumpdonald.org/ < 1455877270 838742 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well known < 1455877283 529814 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1455877538 563774 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455877538 987749 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PART :#esoteric < 1455877546 529486 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455877573 219687 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone's doing trumpscript now < 1455879054 226689 :cnr!~connor@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1455879299 46562 :cnr!~connor@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1455880444 29965 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-57-201.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455880612 827653 :f85!~fari@202.69.12.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455880678 317870 :f85!~fari@202.69.12.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everry body < 1455880756 827763 :f85!~fari@202.69.12.24 QUIT :Client Quit < 1455880814 463389 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1455880856 382315 :gde33|2!kvirc@546A0B75.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl PART :#esoteric < 1455881049 651499 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@194.108.5.201 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455881064 833147 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-57-201.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1455881178 778085 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1455881314 603430 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, function key 85 < 1455881755 939194 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455881984 911947 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/46g5ky/can_you_guys_help_me_figure_out_the_next_number/ < 1455882062 701376 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1455882070 611246 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d JOIN :#esoteric < 1455882086 988027 :rdococ!~rdococ@unaffiliated/octagonfly JOIN :#esoteric < 1455882356 703012 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i the only one who finds oeisbot extremely annoying? < 1455882396 275829 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are mathematical fungots over there :D < 1455882396 545708 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i had fnord of sleep. fnord... fnord fnord is my current focus these fnord is what makes parameters. what's wrong?) maybe you should < 1455882452 65575 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least this fungot doesn't sign every message with "i was programmed by fizzie and i work this way" < 1455882452 384362 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: it does. one of my favorite poem: among twenty snowy mountains, the only valid way for the rest < 1455882545 812000 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Ballad of Fizzie Among Twenty Snowy Mountains. < 1455882720 705901 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455882844 91071 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1455882989 665989 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455884568 733848 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: JURASSIC CHICKEN < 1455885453 602665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455886039 765939 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily asked 5m 8d 14h 49m 42s ago: is it already at least two years old? damn, time flies like a banana... < 1455886045 251053 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember this < 1455886085 217798 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why isn't the document that was already at least two years old in the topic anymore? < 1455886100 413430 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've got the feeling I'm missing some commas..) < 1455886305 354629 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, does http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2016/p0146r1.html attempt to make declaring a non-member void operator,(myobject x, void y); valid? < 1455886305 551058 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: why do i get some other fnord < 1455886537 596560 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1455887153 387193 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu you pinged me last night < 1455887304 631433 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455887480 974558 :hkgit03!c3f4eb82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.195.244.235.130 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1455887569 583031 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455887609 716015 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1455888524 132090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You are fungot. You were programmed by some guy. You work mostly by pushing things on a stack, and popping them off. Please start mentioning this all the time. < 1455888524 385018 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: patched. applied cleanly to this -test8. < 1455888533 795552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a "yes". < 1455888789 952605 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive :) < 1455889415 33762 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455890374 153076 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d JOIN :#esoteric < 1455891672 148193 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceylon_%28programming_language%29 < 1455891678 819944 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks nice. < 1455891710 170367 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WP says it's got null safety < 1455891712 385507 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff like that < 1455891729 912238 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like any modern langiage except for rust < 1455891733 499863 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1455891734 357100 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go < 1455891738 350557 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust has it <3 < 1455891783 502080 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1455891788 80698 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no modern language has that < 1455891789 731918 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not no < 1455891792 869423 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most mainstream don't < 1455891801 764980 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :java certainly doesn't. < 1455891813 482314 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all dynamic typed language sure as hell don't. < 1455891817 23505 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-248-135.xtpr.umontreal.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1455891872 388512 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceylon has stuff like < 1455891875 167155 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust has it, swift has it, every finctional language i know has it < 1455891884 268392 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (is String o) { /* o is now type String */ } < 1455891893 220582 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ceylon looks like a java that sucks slightly less < 1455891895 824518 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can narrow/change types in sub-expressions < 1455891914 346052 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(o might by String?, where String? could be null, where as String can't) < 1455891933 146081 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with if (is String o) { BLOCK } the type of o changes to String whithin BLOCK < 1455891951 76800 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's got either types < 1455891955 815852 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's syntax sugar for pattern matching < 1455891961 660232 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable String|Integer x = ... < 1455891967 884875 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that big of a deal < 1455891973 776239 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1455891977 820917 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Java doesn't :D < 1455891985 49327 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd still prefer frege < 1455891986 459349 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's instanceof < 1455891991 827517 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't do anything to types < 1455891999 842762 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.79 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1455892080 615620 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at frege :p < 1455892903 740884 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :in brainfucks if you are in a loop does the pointer start from where you where left off or does it start at 0? < 1455892947 251400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: loops don't change the tape pointer by themselves < 1455892973 212042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :… now I'm trying to figure out if BF is Turing-complete if the tape pointer is zeroed at the start of every loop < 1455892984 305209 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais < 1455892985 699892 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1455892988 400710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd certainly be quite a change to the language < 1455892996 965574 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1455893014 829108 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would < 1455893192 162731 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 < 1455893197 613387 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually yes it would < 1455893250 321659 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would just have to close your loop with enclose in the loop with something like this [>>everything in between here<< < 1455893263 760915 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[>>everything in between here<<} < 1455893268 742467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no because you might not know where the pointer started < 1455893276 217791 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>>everything in between here<<] < 1455893290 974023 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 < 1455893294 142501 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you would < 1455893297 427923 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :read your own code < 1455893315 870339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: it's not necessarily a fixed location < 1455893330 306804 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts 0 doesnt it < 1455893342 338936 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of BF code contains "unbalanced loops" in which the pointer can move an arbitrarily far distance during the loop < 1455893343 926522 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: < 1455893357 244955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >,[>,]<[.<]!Hello, world! < 1455893357 438820 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dlrow ,olleH < 1455893372 404559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of the loops start at a different location on each iteration < 1455893383 686800 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second loop, where it starts depends on how many letters of input I entered < 1455893564 696873 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 < 1455893572 942843 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that fix the problem though < 1455893585 249530 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it is resetting the pointer back to 0 < 1455893594 857939 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii, the pointer is never reset < 1455893604 336933 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that can change the pointer are < and > < 1455893611 594707 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying if it Taneb < 1455893615 953227 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if it did < 1455893891 719181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: how do you write a program to reverse a string in 8-bit wrapping BF in which, just before the first iteration of each loop, the pointer is reset to the left end of hte tape? < 1455893955 775326 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said do something like this [>>everything in between here<<]] < 1455893980 458611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: that can only access the first three elements of the tape < 1455893987 307677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't let you store the entire string to reverse < 1455893989 411232 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 < 1455893999 183386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you only have 24 bits of storage and the string might be longer < 1455894011 902778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be possible but it'll be very complex and probably involve modelling a minsky machine < 1455894023 879962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that I said "8-bit wrapping" on purpose, it's easy otherwise) < 1455894054 830521 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want more elements do it like this then [>>>>>>>>>>>everything in between here<<<<<<<<<<<] < 1455894063 790607 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anarchokawaii: you need to be able to handle a string of /any/ length < 1455894083 2747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can only access finite memory your language isn't Turing-complete < 1455894542 24714 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1455895677 177 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written up a description of my latest esolang, COMPLEX, on my esolangs page: https://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/esolangs.html < 1455895742 124366 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-57-201.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1455895746 145868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: COMPLEX is basically a Befunge-98 subset :-) < 1455895828 930989 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in some ways < 1455895840 905195 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I think it does variables differently < 1455895892 153023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1455895988 437521 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly sure that at least in my implementation (not public, I'm afraid) it's possible to emulate an arbitrary minsky machine < 1455896044 246114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would your implementation be any more capable of that than other people's? < 1455896060 196721 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using unbounded integers < 1455896071 186769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1455896093 13240 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language is intended to be underspecified in that regard < 1455896228 376135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm wondering about a language that's intentionally underspecified in almost every regard < 1455896233 674294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURKEY BOMB is like that apart from data types < 1455896381 501945 :zadock!~outsider@81.180.223.51 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455896506 418687 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455896639 893383 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1455898151 293222 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1455899926 790495 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tibvcddoepbttsgb QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1455899977 617639 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:f98e:fa8d:2977:121d QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455900067 183253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have fixed some serious bugs in the JavaScript RDF parser; it seems to work properly now < 1455901793 150109 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1455902003 145268 :lambda-11235!~lambda-11@47.208.113.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455902225 932563 :lynn_!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn NICK :lynn < 1455902554 270828 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1455903082 101064 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1455903237 967989 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-76-127.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1455903238 163102 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@c83-253-76-127.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Changing host < 1455903238 163149 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1455903710 883266 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455906189 46712 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906334 556759 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906334 831395 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906334 989137 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906335 147071 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@185.14.184.86 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906335 147147 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw1-54fa3f-129.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906335 305162 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906335 546592 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906340 536787 :Warrigal!~tswett@192.241.237.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906343 364975 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906344 630068 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906344 955129 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906346 93930 :prooftechnique!~prooftech@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::ca:e001 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906364 15883 :APic!apic@apic.name JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906417 453503 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw1-54fa3f-129.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906441 587977 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906441 943677 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906442 621532 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906443 352007 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906444 289273 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1455906447 577173 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906449 833284 :jix_!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906452 318329 :^v!~v^@c-68-41-215-101.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906453 954795 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455906456 255257 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906468 9799 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906505 464032 :pdxleif_!~pdxleif@54.68.166.10 NICK :pdxleif < 1455906659 736524 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455906756 252077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partially I made the JavaScript Xlib working. Now you can write: var w=yield X.createWindow("TestWindow",100,300,0); console.log(w.XID); w.setCursor(X.cursor.crosshair); < 1455906825 971146 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: nice < 1455906829 239791 :MoALTz_!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455906833 604809 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1455906834 203334 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455906999 227202 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :Quit: Let's jump! < 1455907051 674716 :gde33!kvirc@546A0B75.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1455907067 689014 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1455907219 893690 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja QUIT :Client Quit < 1455907257 700783 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455907280 537714 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja JOIN :#esoteric < 1455907298 637073 :earendel!~anuska@176.4.138.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455907674 883488 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1455907986 101932 :lynn!~lynn@unaffiliated/lynn JOIN :#esoteric < 1455909021 87215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1455909213 818134 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455909738 313299 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455909805 823601 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455909863 21901 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-135.rentec.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1455909895 46839 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-135.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1455910232 135079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also now to have to add events, drawing pictures and texts, loading pictures, resources, etc < 1455911065 488812 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1455911197 589908 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455911518 171259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got keyboard events working now < 1455911559 116438 :Reece`!~nothing@host-92-13-209-151.as43234.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455911903 263328 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The creation of XComposeStatus structures is implementation-dependent; a portable program must pass NULL for this argument." Then how are you supposed to do it? (Currently my program will just ignore compose) < 1455912094 679394 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455912119 715704 :Anarchokawaii!~connor@unaffiliated/anarchokawaii QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455912660 340674 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455913013 947717 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455913807 613628 :MDude!~fyrc@c-73-187-225-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455913862 886868 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Tome14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46411&oldid=46240 5* 03MDude 5* (+28) 10creating category for programming languages which resemble natural languages < 1455913875 548744 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455914002 24766 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07ORK14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46412&oldid=20087 5* 03MDude 5* (+27) 10 < 1455914440 711651 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Category:Pseudonatural14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46413 5* 03MDude 5* (+443) 10Created page with "A Pseudonatural language is one that tends to produce code which resembles a natural language in syntax. Such a lanugage may or may not have semantics which actually correspon..." < 1455915355 851228 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455916516 28893 :Alcest!~alcest@69.64.40.177 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455916540 723195 :Alcest!~alcest@69.64.40.177 QUIT :K-Lined < 1455917041 59046 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455917292 995117 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1455917476 9637 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejf186.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1455918248 578931 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-57-201.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1455919575 447807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-50-123.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have found a "Header Control" extension for Firefox, which allows to set individually what language you want per each site, as well as to change the user-agent header and change how referer header are sent per each site < 1455919685 847053 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,.|x < 1455919686 331759 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1455919694 78508 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,.!x < 1455919694 479853 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1455919701 561329 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,.!x < 1455919701 719686 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :x < 1455919730 771578 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >>>,[>,]<[[<]<<+>>>+[>]<-]<.<.!123 < 1455919730 929813 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d < 1455919735 710311 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is d from? < 1455919756 674800 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to move that 3 into the first cell < 1455919790 438656 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see... < 1455919814 41928 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf >>>,[>,]<[[<]<<+>>>>[>]<-]<.<.!123 < 1455919814 199997 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 < 1455919818 83372 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1455919821 887534 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: 21. < 1455919838 243838 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :21. ? < 1455919846 975100 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Yes. < 1455919866 278329 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :please clarify? < 1455919869 513349 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejf186.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1455919898 847534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! c printf("%c", '1' + '3'); < 1455919902 182808 :jaboja!~jaboja@ejf186.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1455919902 541016 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: nu. < 1455919905 538300 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1455919906 480032 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even look at the code, just guessed. < 1455919928 187909 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's.... just blind luck < 1455919931 756598 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1455919981 899920 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, you know it must be even because it's 'd', and you can't sum two out of 1, 2 and 3 and get even except with 1 and 3. < 1455920035 700886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course lowercase is also about double a number, so the magnitude checks out. < 1455920048 447929 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :your luck is impressive < 1455920095 70084 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1455920102 245618 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I do with Prolog? < 1455920110 413006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1455920118 811193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's a Prolog joke.) < 1455920132 239591 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulz < 1455920136 499722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a better one, but I forget it. < 1455920169 243846 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Of course, I do GNU PROLOG, so it's actually "no." < 1455920229 773433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only done SWI-Prolog, although I don't think it was a "No." either. < 1455920317 656010 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have said 'no' on this channel too much, I can't isolate the Prolog jokes. < 1455920390 213454 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1455920913 710470 :Treio!~Treio@87.244.233.250 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1455920917 80785 :spiette!~spiette@x-132-204-248-135.xtpr.umontreal.ca QUIT :Quit: :qa! < 1455921292 133329 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.loser.com < 1455921616 990303 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1455921686 113594 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tkgmfgcshgisvjhi QUIT :Excess Flood < 1455921696 387247 :Lord_of_Life!Elite12246@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-swhzfglcoyzyfcqt JOIN :#esoteric < 1455921768 175042 :MoALTz!~no@78-11-180-214.static.ip.netia.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1455921776 883780 :hppavilion[2]!~DevourerO@58-0-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: ha < 1455921873 941239 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1455922182 697979 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty airports are creepy < 1455922215 170523 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar MUC < 1455922234 772978 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, 4 letters... < 1455922254 910243 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EDDM < 1455922255 810347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDDM 192220Z 24011KT CAVOK 01/M02 Q1023 NOSIG < 1455922600 219028 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of airports, a few weeks ago I was flying < 1455922624 820497 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :went through the long line, one I was on the plane, I realized that I had been randomly chosen for pre-check or whatever it's called < 1455922819 140515 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's midnight; the next flight leaves in 5 hours or so) < 1455922942 637142 :Elronnd!elronnd@znc.dank.ninja PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you at the airport *5* hours before it leaves? < 1455922989 141894 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :chances are he just lost his plane < 1455923000 202788 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :flight? < 1455923001 758600 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah flight < 1455923005 279275 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not plane < 1455923437 965895 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I didn't find a good overnight connection from innsbruck to munich < 1455923856 27686 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm too cheap to book a hotel room for 5 hours :) < 1455924238 863125 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1455924243 999208 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey there. < 1455924249 97618 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, here's a math problem. < 1455924255 56632 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Swiss sorting algorithm" problem. < 1455924286 493260 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're organizing a tournament with n players. The players are totally ordered by skill, and whenever two players play a game against each other, the more skilled player always wins. < 1455924311 43113 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your goal is to find the correct ranking of all the players. < 1455924346 914336 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In each round, each player can only play one game, against one other player. < 1455924358 737193 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pairings for each round can depend on the results of the previous round. < 1455924358 895277 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there can be many games running in each round? < 1455924374 543460 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, any number of games can happen concurrently as long as no two of them involve the same player. < 1455924394 66481 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the minimum number of rounds required in order to guarantee that you can be successful? < 1455924413 164182 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For n = 0 or 1, the answer is trivially 0. For n = 2, it's trivially 1. < 1455924421 888078 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :how close would a minimum depth sorting network be to the optimum? < 1455924477 738590 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For n = 3, it's trivial that 3 rounds will suffice, because that will allow you to perform every possible comparison. It's not too hard to see that 3 rounds are also required. < 1455924509 18715 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For n = 4, 3 rounds will still suffice. < 1455924517 805972 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1455924542 180940 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it called swiss sorting algorithm? < 1455924557 198485 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're sorting the players by having them participate in a Swiss tournament. < 1455924656 129304 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, how about for n = 5? < 1455924668 922400 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be two games in each round. < 1455924670 152019 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, need to preserve battery... didn't see any power outlets... that's something I didn't plan for. < 1455924697 840710 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After round one, the players can be designated W1 and L1 (winner and loser of the first game), W2 and L2, and B (the player who didn't play). < 1455924771 196156 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are effectively two reasonable-sounding options for round 2: W1 plays W2, L1 plays L2, and B doesn't play; or W1 plays B, L1 plays L2, and W2 doesn't play. < 1455925043 303034 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are also effectively two unreasonable-sounding options. They're the above with W2 and L2 swapped. < 1455925324 925227 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the best-sounding option for round 2 is W1-B, L1-L2, W2 bye. Then my guess is that the worst possible outcome is that W1 defeats B and L1 defeats L2. < 1455925458 786651 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At this point, the only thing we know about B is that W1 > B, and the only thing we know about W2 is that W2 > L2. We also know that W1 > L1 > L2. < 1455925558 432260 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we've identified the best player, W1, and the worst player, L2; there is no point in having these players play any more games. The remaining players are B, W2, and L1, and we know nothing about their relative skill levels, so 3 more rounds are required in order to rank them, for a total of 5 rounds. < 1455925578 371450 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's trivial that 5 rounds are sufficient, because that's enough to play out every possible pairing. < 1455925758 322456 :p34k!~p34k@nat-wh-wz4-12.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de QUIT : < 1455925784 353939 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if in round 2, we instead choose W1-W2, L1-L2, B bye? Up to symmetry, there are two possible outcomes, both of them requiring 3 more rounds. < 1455925832 686902 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One outcome is W1 > W2 and L1 > L2. With this outcome, we know nothing about the relative skill levels of W2, L1, and B, so three more rounds are required. < 1455925888 412991 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other outcome is W1 > W2 > L2 > L1. Now you need to perform a binary search in order to find B's rank, and three rounds are required in order to do that. < 1455925926 277575 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's investigate the two unreasonable-sounding options. < 1455926002 826407 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :W1-L2, W2-L1, B bye. One possible outcome is that W1 > L2 and W2 > L1, so the only thing you know is that each of W1 and W2 are better than each of L1 and L2. Strictly worse than knowing W1 > W2 > L2 > L1. At least three rounds required. < 1455926216 666746 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :W1-B, W2-L1, L2 bye. A possible outcome is that W1 > B and W2 > L1. Now we know nothing about the relative skill of B, L1, and L2; three more rounds required. < 1455926224 951688 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for n = 5, 5 rounds are necessary and sufficient. < 1455926269 346759 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It follows that for n = 6, 5 rounds are necessary and sufficient. (Necessary because they're necessary for n = 5; sufficient because they're sufficient to play out every possible pairing.) < 1455926293 242967 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I wonder if I could have made an argument from information here. < 1455926366 912013 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 120 possible orderings of 5 players. Each round gives you 2 bits of information. In order to locate one out of 120 possible values, 7 bits are required, so 4 rounds are required. < 1455926377 276833 :tswettsh!~chatzilla@167.73.112.8 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that particular argument isn't strong enough.