00:02:25 Hellu! 00:02:35 @messages-screamed 00:02:36 Unknown command, try @list 00:02:41 @messages-deafening 00:02:42 Unknown command, try @list 00:02:48 @messages-shockwave 00:02:48 Unknown command, try @list 00:02:50 :/ 00:02:54 @messages-lud 00:02:54 oerjan said 1h 17m 40s ago: We should establish the official #esoteric stack <-- i think xkcd did that the other day. 00:02:54 oerjan said 1h 12m 7s ago: mezkhalin: Keyboard Inaccessible <-- itym "AFK" hth 00:03:29 oerjan: No, it didn't. xkcd just create /a/ stack. We should make a /true/ #esoteric stack 00:03:37 And the AlphaGo authors estimated their program to have about 3140 Elo... 00:03:43 oerjan: Also, I wasn't AFK, it was just inaccessible 00:04:15 (but they used the 10 games against Fan Hui for anchoring the scale, so there's quite a big margin for error, I think) 00:05:16 Another project it'd be cool for #esoteric to do would be to take REALLY old languages and revise them into modern languages ;) 00:05:25 Like apparently modula-2 00:07:16 But something I REALLY think would be cool is if somebody took the original Python source code- or made a language similar to Python- and modified it to the point where it was suitable for OS development by running an interpreter on bare metal 00:09:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 00:09:41 darn now i feel old we used modula-2 at my second programming course in university 00:10:01 (this was 1991 or thereabouts.) 00:10:23 It was modern, compared to Pascal! 00:10:37 int-e: which we used in the _first_ course tdnh 00:11:12 turbo pascal 00:11:46 -!- Treio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:11:53 Hmm, that's not really Pascal... it had its own module (well, unit) system. 00:12:06 i don't think we used the fancy parts of it much. 00:14:42 I don't think Modula added much over Turbo Pascal, feature wise; but it had a noticably different syntax. 00:15:01 I accidentally voting opposite on a marketing survey 00:15:42 you're accidently taking a marketing survey? 00:15:49 Ads 00:15:56 That block content etc 00:16:04 i think i've forgotten almost all the modula syntax 00:16:56 pascal stuck better as i also saw it in other contexts 00:17:16 both before and after the course 00:17:41 Oh, it looks like Modula has interfaces (for modules), which Turbo Pascal didn't. 00:17:58 hm that rings a bell 00:20:11 oerjan: That was the plan :) 00:20:22 We had a "basics of imperative programming" course taught in C but by a former Pascal person. 00:20:45 They said you declare a floating point variable 'x' in C with the declaration "x real;" 00:20:59 oh joe (or joy?)... #define begin { 00:21:28 hppavilion[1]: i fail to recall where you could have gained the knowledge that i ever learned modula-2, in order to plan from it. 00:21:32 int-e: Really? woooooooow 00:22:06 oerjan: It wasn't targetted at you specifically, just at anyone who'd learned it. 00:22:11 ah. 00:22:25 i was just a nocent bystander, got it 00:22:53 oerjan: I think you mean a broke bystander hth 00:23:00 Or is it a clueless bystander? 00:24:24 wat 00:24:34 nocent is a perfectly cromulent word hth 00:24:44 (although i only checked it after using it) 00:25:12 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 00:25:58 I think you *can* run Python by running an interpreter on bare metal. It's just, I don't know if anyone has ever actually created such an interpreter. 00:26:50 tswett: Well someone should 00:27:16 tswett: What I'm really getting at is that someone should develop a language targeted SPECIFICALLY at OS developmen 00:27:17 t 00:27:29 hppavilion[1]: that's... not quite but kind of what Rust is. 00:27:36 I mean, it's targeted at *system* development. 00:27:38 tswett: OK. 00:27:43 And lots of people have done OS development in it. 00:27:45 Including me. 00:28:06 tswett: Would there happen to be a tutorial for using Rust for that I can use after I learn Rust? 00:28:11 Granted, my OS doesn't really do anything. It dynamically allocates memory, and uses it to print "Hello, world!" backwards. 00:28:28 `? elloh 00:28:29 elloh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:28:39 tswett: And osdev.org doesn't have a Rust tutorial, afaict 00:28:47 `wisdom 00:28:49 thausiblee/A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action. 00:29:12 There isn't really any such thing as an OS development tutorial. OS development requires quite a bit of knowledge. 00:30:00 That said... 00:30:01 http://wiki.osdev.org/Rust_Bare_Bones 00:30:10 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:30:11 tswett: That's what I said. 00:30:25 tswett: Rust Bare Bones doesn't have anything in it 00:30:34 Anything useful, at least 00:30:43 The first link is very useful: https://github.com/thepowersgang/rust-barebones-kernel 00:31:57 hppavilion[1]: by the way, do you know how to implement linked lists in C? 00:32:09 tswett: Yes. Kind of. 00:32:11 xD 00:32:19 I failed at it. 00:32:33 tswett: Isn't it just a structure of data and a pointer to the next thing? 00:32:34 Partially 00:32:39 In any case... have fun. 00:32:41 * tswett cackles. 00:33:48 linked lists are so much fun to debug... 00:34:05 but kinda boring when they work 00:35:36 -!- Treio has joined. 00:36:20 I should read Too Many Lists 00:36:32 And work on releasing my minilibrary for Rust 00:37:42 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:38:32 That reminds me... I was working on implementing everything in Coq. 00:41:29 How was it goingL? 00:41:31 s/L// 00:41:40 Well, I haven't gotten very far yet. 00:41:47 You could say that I'm 0% finished at the moment. 00:42:18 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46343&oldid=45922 * Erinius * (+14) 00:42:43 Anyway, I've defined Category, the type of categories. 00:43:03 Next, I'm going to... I'm gonna define Monoid, the type of monoids. 00:49:24 Makes me wish I knew things by osmosis. 00:50:39 There, I've done that too. 00:50:48 This brings me to 0% complete. 00:51:37 Next... heck, I feel like defining all sorts of weird things today. I'm going to define a natural number algebra! 00:52:32 Record NaturalNumberAlgebra := { nnalg_element_type : Type; nnalg_zero : nnalg_element_type; nnalg_successor : nnalg_element_type -> nnalg_element_type }. 00:52:36 It's a pretty simple concept. 01:05:10 Suddenly I feel like giving up on this and working on my English–Spanish blend instead. 01:05:35 Tentatively called SN50. 01:06:13 I don't really have any SN50 words created yet. But it's likely that the word for a certain type of animal will be something pretty close to "wolbo". 01:06:59 I'm not just randomly mashing together the words "wolf" and "lobo". The "lf" of "wolf" and the "lob" of "lobo" actually have the same etymological origin. 01:07:37 So, I'm mashing them together in an etymologically sound fashion! 01:14:03 I had an idea recently that sounds like the sort of thing #esoteric would be interested in 01:14:06 homeomorphic compression 01:14:14 I have no idea how to implement it, but it seems like an interesting concept 01:14:24 (the idea is that you can operate on compressed data without decompressing it) 01:14:45 the aim would be to further develop this into allowing compressed RAM 01:14:58 (thus you could "download more RAM" via downloading a better compressor) 01:15:38 Hahah. 01:20:00 -!- mad has joined. 01:20:59 playing around with cpu instruction set design 01:21:21 I'm ending up with some pretty insane design 01:23:43 instead of going 01:23:58 add r8, r4, r5 (add r4 to r5 and store in r8) 01:24:03 I'm ending up with 01:24:50 rename r8*, ld r4, add r5, st r8* 01:27:37 kindof a 6502 on crack where instead of running instructions directly, you rename target registers, then start small threads that compute the results 01:31:46 the idea being that using a virtual accumulator reduces the number of real registers you have to retire/write 01:32:54 and that it gives a good idea of what can be parallelized (load accumulator = can start a second execution thread here that can run before the previous instructions are done) 01:34:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:35:06 So, I'm mashing them together in an etymologically sound fashion! <-- technically, that would require making up a consistent set of sound changes from the common ancestor in proto-indoeuropean hth 01:35:17 Exactly. 01:36:12 -!- bender| has joined. 01:37:18 mad: have you seen the Itanium? 01:38:09 I'm not aware of the small details, only that it was a failure ;) 01:38:37 the details are amazing 01:38:40 very eso 01:38:47 (which probably explains why it was a failure) 01:39:06 or more exactly, that it performed well at floating point, but considering its market that doesn't seem to have helped much 01:39:30 I'm aware that it has 3 instruction bundles 01:39:58 it did get us a pretty solid C++ abi 01:39:59 with some strange fields to tell which instructions can run concurrently in contiguous bundles 01:41:17 and that it has weird stuff like modulo registers 01:41:32 and speculative loads 01:41:54 and the whole predicate bit thing where it basically has a whole lot of different flags registers 01:42:39 I think the failure is more due to just not performing well 01:43:25 one guy says that it can't perform an address calculation in memory loads/stores and that eats up registers like crazy and is pretty bad overall 01:45:12 and also that what was left of alpha ended up as a team at intel and they tried to make an out of order version of itanium and just couldn't do it 01:45:28 -!- XorSwap has joined. 01:49:22 My guess on this stuff is that it's often best to have a cpu architecture that performs well on a crazy mix of loads and stores and jumps, and that fast arithmetic is a comparatively lesser problem if your architecture is clean enough 01:50:07 itanium clearly doesn't fit here 01:53:14 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:56:42 and that x86 has a couple of features that bizzarely seem to help despite their complexity 02:00:17 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:12:04 what, did wikipedia go down 02:12:43 hmph google doesn't work either, guess it's me then 02:14:39 i hope i won't just lose irc as well if i toggle the router... 02:15:45 -!- tromp_ has joined. 02:15:57 Can confirm, Google is not currrently on fire. 02:16:05 OKAY 02:16:25 i just did a quick toggling in windows, seems to have fixed it. 02:17:25 Latin seems way closer to PIE than Old English is. 02:17:34 Which makes sense, since Latin was spoken sooner. 02:17:39 pikhq_: well that's just _your_ site, i hear google has several 02:17:45 pikhq_: Really? 02:18:04 oerjan: A notable outage would probably involve my inbox going wild too... 02:18:06 Google is usually at least a little bit on fire in my experience. 02:18:13 pikhq_: ah 02:18:23 shachaf: Well, relatively speaking. 02:18:33 just use bing until this gets sorted out 02:19:09 There's only so "everything fine" you can be when your reliability comes from designing around the assumption that some percentage of things are going to fail. 02:19:11 tswett: i dunno, i've heard modern lithuanian is notably archaic 02:19:16 *read 02:20:05 Past a certain point "up" or "down" is an analog value, not digital. 02:20:15 Yup. 02:21:00 There *was* a major outage of damn near everything earlier today for a couple minutes, though, so that was fun. 02:21:16 whoa whoa whoa 02:23:11 that's very reassuring 02:23:19 pikhq_: Remind me, do you work on Calendar? 02:23:48 shachaf: No, but I do work *next* to them. 02:24:04 I heard some rumours about Calendar the other day. 02:24:43 I can neither confirm nor deny there being rumor-worthy things about them. 02:24:56 I mean, nothing really all that secret. 02:26:05 What was it you worked on again? 02:26:23 Google Apps for Work 02:28:07 oerjan: yeah, but that doesn't make sense. 02:29:20 pikhq_: Is that the same as ----er? 02:29:28 Yes 02:29:37 The more general public name for it. 02:29:59 I guess the internal name isn't secret anyway. 02:30:08 But I'm pleased with the redaction. 02:30:17 Yes, it's fairly delightful. 02:32:10 f---er 02:33:12 I played _Spider and Web_ today. Interesting game. 02:33:15 fu--er 02:33:28 We definitely do not use "fucker" as an internal code name. 02:33:36 ... At least, not one I know about. 02:33:40 fuh-er 02:33:46 Fuhrer? 02:33:48 fuhrer 02:34:08 you should be ashamed, google 02:34:10 pikhq_: I mean... There was an unfortunately named build tool... 02:34:26 That one was so bad that it was renamed. 02:34:43 ah, google childslaughter, renamed to google mail 02:34:51 Der Googleführer? 02:34:52 shachaf: Don't even know what you're referring to. 02:35:18 /topic mōdar - māter; āna - ūnus 02:35:19 But I really hope you're not referring to what eventually became Bazel. 02:36:11 -!- v^ has joined. 02:36:42 so what do people think about a webserver written in brainfuck ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 02:36:55 Implausible yet highly amusing. 02:36:58 tswett: are you sure those last two are in the same gender? 02:37:14 that's one weird question for irc 02:37:41 oerjan: āna and ūnus? Nope. 02:37:49 shachaf: Do you know anyone in the area that can perform a cephalectomy? I think it might help my headaches. 02:38:07 *that*'s one weird question for irc 02:38:32 I'm not sure what a cephalectomy is. 02:38:39 brain removal 02:38:58 Head removal, actually. 02:39:03 sorry 02:39:24 Remind me what a cephalotomy would be? 02:39:29 I have a copy of a book titled _On Having No Head_. 02:39:36 Are you interested? 02:39:41 Cephalotomy would be cutting the head. Cephalectomy would be removal of the head. 02:40:16 -!- andrew has joined. 02:46:36 https://github.com/rdebath/Brainfuck about that small snippet in the readme, hellbox 02:47:18 any idea how to prove that it's not stuck in an endless loop at the end? 02:47:29 other than running it 02:47:38 Ugh. How do I get grub-mkrescue working on windows? 02:47:51 No one say switch to linux, I'm not in the mood to do that ATM 02:47:53 just wanted to remove that loop to generate cleaner code 02:49:09 there's also a similar [] loop in the middle and i can't prove that it's not stuck there either 02:49:41 it seems again time to link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken 02:50:00 DDDDDDDD: dafuq is that 02:50:11 Halp? 02:50:27 thought so. 02:50:33 `help "getting grub-mkdir working on windows" 02:50:33 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:50:36 Wait, no 02:50:42 `help "getting grub-mkrescue working on windows" 02:50:42 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:51:07 * izabera doesn't use grub so debugging it is not an option 02:51:48 systemd-boot is great when it doesn't fuck up your efi 02:59:12 izabera: Alternatively, I just need to be able to make a .bin I made with nasm and ld into a bootable iso 02:59:25 everyone: But a way to use grub would be optimal 03:00:19 s/-boot(.+?) your.*/\1/ 03:00:34 s/great/terrible/ 03:01:06 well, one of those changes sounds superfluous 03:01:20 hppavilion[1]: take a look at the tutorials on osdev.org 03:04:32 hppavilion[1]: you're planning to run your OS on bare metal? 03:05:00 I'd run it in an emulator first. Easier to get going, and there's not much point in skipping past it. 03:05:13 tswett: On an emulator, obviously 03:05:16 tswett: *Sigh* 03:05:18 Ah, good. 03:05:19 What was I doing wrong? 03:05:33 tswett: What do I not need to do that I'm doing but I need not because emulators? 03:05:53 Right, right. Lemme see. 03:06:09 The good news: emulators aren't going to make it that much easier. 03:06:14 izabera: One of those changes tells the truth, the other one makes the point more succinct and more general. :P 03:06:16 Oh no... 03:06:21 tswett: I have a bit of ASM I found on someone's blog that I'm working from 03:06:28 Actually... I did in fact make an ISO in order to boot my OS. 03:06:34 Having an emulator didn't make *that* part easier at all. 03:06:40 What an emulator is good for is debugging. 03:06:49 With an emulator: "My OS isn't working. Let me figure out why." 03:06:50 And the tutorial uses grub-mkrescue to make an iso out of a .bin 03:06:55 Without an emulator: "My OS isn't working. Crap." 03:07:11 I don't think I used grub-mkrescue. Lemme see. 03:07:20 You say "lemme see" a lot 03:07:33 You should instead say "lemma C" 03:07:42 To refer to the third lemma set forth in this proof 03:07:48 I like that idea. 03:07:49 hth 03:07:52 :) 03:07:58 I used something called "genisoimage". 03:08:27 * hppavilion[1] nods 03:08:32 And where do I get that? 03:09:57 I'm not sure. 03:10:04 By the way, what format are you using for the kernel? ELF? 03:11:01 tswett: I don't even know anymore 03:11:11 tswett: ELF, in theory 03:11:23 Yeah, ELF. I remember now 03:13:25 tswett: And? 03:14:58 -!- Treio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:15:14 Unfortunately I have to go to bed now. 03:15:15 Night. 03:16:31 ~ 03:30:12 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:32:57 sea of lemmings 03:34:33 <\oren\> you can change orbits by having the astronaut get out and push 03:36:25 <\oren\> of course, this is harder than it sounds because you can't use the jetpack while on a ledder 03:36:29 <\oren\> *ladder 03:37:06 <\oren\> so you have to get out, fly to a flat surface of the orbiter, and fly against that hard 03:37:36 OK 03:37:38 I am so close 03:37:41 How do I get bochs 03:37:43 To boot an iso? 05:08:50 -!- Trioxin has joined. 05:10:01 so brainfuck isn't actually as esoteric as one might think. In doing some AI research with the idea of searching a programming space it turns out to be quite useful 05:10:15 http://www.primaryobjects.com/2013/01/27/using-artificial-intelligence-to-write-self-modifying-improving-programs/ 05:11:16 so my idea? do the same thing and have a program do NLP with lojban to produce brainfuck code 05:11:46 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:14:05 * Elronnd downloads github link to run it locally 05:20:32 Elronnd, it was clever. I wouldn't have thought of brainfuck off the top of my head to constrain the programming space (I've never used brainfuck or any esoteric). 05:24:14 of course in that example the fitness function is just a string output. still impressive to me but I would aim higher. 05:25:32 I...don't see how to run it 05:25:51 i think the AI part was done in .net? 05:26:17 Looks like 05:26:28 Maybe AIProgrammer/Program.cs? 05:27:26 one sec. a step behind you 05:28:03 https://github.com/primaryobjects/AI-Programmer 05:28:44 im there. oh cool it actually looks to still be maintained 05:29:17 Last commit half a year ago? not so much 05:29:59 Installing mono... 05:30:01 well, considering it started in jan 2013 05:30:14 It looks like it's written for windows though 05:31:22 Running some of the programs in Results/, the encoding seems messed up or something 05:31:37 eh, froze my 7zip. one sec 05:32:33 Huh, I'm getting a weird error from mono 05:32:38 "Cannot open assembly 'Program.cs': File does not contain a valid CIL image." 05:33:19 Oh, apparently I have to compile with mcs first 05:33:41 but that gives me errors 05:34:25 i just opened it in vs2015 05:34:54 * Elronnd sighs 05:34:58 I don't use windows 05:35:00 it works! 05:35:30 for what? 05:36:13 i think i might need to define a string, hold on. I got a CLI app that was outputting info from the GA's epochs 05:37:32 Oh, apparently vs is available for linux 05:38:19 I opened the folder, now how do I run the program? 05:41:15 got it 05:41:25 you just pass the string via cli 05:41:34 What do you mean? 05:41:49 how? 05:42:15 compiled with vs then ran from cli 05:42:26 how do you compile with vs? 05:42:41 just hit "Start" or build solution 05:42:45 start/debug 05:42:47 http://screencast.com/t/h0nRvAqPnh 05:43:53 the play button in VS lol. produces a directory called AIProgrammer/bin/AIProgrammer.exe 05:44:06 or build solution, whatever 05:45:52 that's interesting. target string is hello. So far it's best fitness has been "hi" 05:46:05 obviously a coincidence 05:46:25 OMG it's self-aware 05:46:35 I'm getting an ERROR: Debug adapter process has terminated unexpectedly 05:47:33 probably best on windows. i'll send you a compiled version. let me know if you want to change the fitness parameter explained near the top of Program.cs 05:47:44 want me to change it rather 05:48:06 the fitness method 05:48:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:48:33 k, thanks 05:48:58 wow i don't get it. I defined "hello" as the target and the program finished with: hi 05:49:52 once it hit "hi" it considered that the best till the end 05:50:31 it was still generating far after it first came up with hi too 05:51:48 here you go... 05:52:01 https://spideroak.com/storage/NNZGC6I/shared/462690-13-15328/bin.tar.gz?92a837f9aad6a97caddb46f9b046825e 05:54:05 "hi" must be hard-coded somewhere 05:55:42 oic where it's hard-coded 05:55:54 IfThenFitness.cs 05:56:10 downloading now 05:56:19 concrete/IfThenFitness.cs 05:57:03 It's doing something 05:57:07 I'm not sure what 05:57:11 specify 1, 2 or 3 05:57:17 pass it to the program 05:57:18 { "hi", "z", "bye" } 05:57:46 well, "Note, input is taken in byte value (not ASCII character)." 05:58:40 i passed it 2. waiting for output 05:59:17 Now I have to get a decent bf implementation 05:59:32 // If/Then example. Accepts input from the user (1, 2, 3) and prints out text, depending on the option selected. 05:59:53 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 05:59:55 it's giving me damn "hi" again. should be "z" 06:01:09 maybe change this in Program.cs? private static TargetParams _targetParams = new TargetParams { TargetString = "hi" }; 06:01:25 It keeps giving me "unbalanced ']'" 06:01:38 hmm 06:02:28 the brainfuck interpreter, that is 06:02:45 I think it's producing malformed brainfuck 06:02:57 here try this... 06:03:47 http://hastebin.com/qamojiqohu.coffee 06:04:31 still producing malformed bf 06:04:41 *still getting that error 06:05:02 the bf the ai is using is outputting it correctly 06:05:11 version problem? 06:05:25 the ai appears to be producing bf it can interpret, yes 06:05:34 I doubt it's a version problem 06:05:52 brainfuck standards are pretty much set in stone, at this point 06:06:06 if it used some weird extensions to brainfuck, I think it would say so 06:06:08 cause it looks like it's running the code against bf when it outputs the results 06:06:23 yes 06:07:40 oh well. it's not like these fitness functions are that great anyway 06:07:54 outputting some text 06:08:54 https://arin.ga/BoVkW7/raw compiling this on x86_64 with -Ofast -march=native, clang produces 1 movq, gcc produces 8 movb 06:09:17 sorry that wasn't relevant to the current discussion 06:09:29 np 06:10:05 it's a cool proof of concept though however infantile 06:12:00 i don't know all that much about quantum computing/creating algorithms for quantum computers but I always wondered if something like this could be done with quantum gating 06:13:18 i know there's some project (I think by Google) that let's you run your algos on their d-wave. Of course I don't believe the d-wave to be a true quantum computer 06:13:46 Yeah, something about the d-wave smells. 06:13:48 i know some lab recently created a QC based on quantum gating though 06:14:52 and we've got quantum coherence in silicon now too 06:18:16 is brainfuck limited to just being turing complete? like no networking or other systems api access? 06:18:37 Without any sort of extensions, yes. 06:19:03 It has the ability to do arbitrary computation, and to access stdin and stdout. 06:19:08 That's about it. 06:19:32 we talk about "brainfuck-completeness" which is Turing-complete + can do arbitrary things with stdin and stdout access (including making stdout any Turing-equivalent function of stdin) 06:21:37 hmm. so you could extend it with external components and actually have it do a lot more using this sort of machine learning 06:22:23 the most true to the spirit of brainfuck is to write a syscall library that communicates over stdin and stdout 06:22:31 although most people's attempts to do that have stalled quickly 06:22:46 It turns out to be harder than it looks. 06:23:22 and so the computer will write it for us :P 06:23:41 Yeaaah, that's a ways off. 06:24:16 Google still hires software engineers you know. :P 06:26:20 ray kurzweil is over there. i remember him being quoted as saying he could write a super-intelligence in 50 lines of lisp. of course it would take an eternity to run and get to that point 06:27:27 using the same sort of method as this BF programmer AI 06:27:32 Huh, does Kurzweil work for Google? News to me. 06:27:53 yeah, i think he heads up deep mind 06:27:59 Sure enough! 06:28:15 Maybe I'll pay him a visit for shits and giggles. 06:28:27 you work for G? 06:28:41 Yep 06:29:36 lucky. I'm a convicted felon so I have to code for myself and only get to work for big companies under contract 06:29:54 Eeep. Well, that sucks. 06:29:56 I don't know if you're joking 06:30:17 Elronnd: Well, being a convicted felon does make it nigh impossible to get a job here. 06:30:20 Which is terrible. 06:30:30 that does suck 06:30:44 And perversely serves only to increase crime. 06:31:05 governments in general are fucked up in many ways 06:31:22 I'm not joking. one stupid mistake when I was 18 all effed up on xanax and alcohol (Going into unlocked cars and removing mostly random useless things) 06:31:58 ...FELONY?????? 06:32:03 Yup, sounds like the way it goes. Do something stupid when you're a dumb 18 year old and voila you're fucked. 06:32:12 I'm not even sure the UK has a felony/misdemeanor split; perhaps it does but it certainly isn't part of popular culture like it is in the US 06:32:18 Elronnd: "Felony" is surprisingly easy to hit. 06:32:53 ais523: I suspect the UK also doesn't make it so that once you're a felon you're basically an untouchable. 06:32:59 yeah. and I had a pub defender so they were supposed to do this thing called running my charges concurrent which would have put them all into 1 and I could have expunged them later 06:33:14 instead I have 7 felonies for 1 crime 06:33:29 (Each car they knew I broke into) 06:33:45 public defender fucked me over 06:34:01 if you call it "Breaking in" 06:34:16 the charge is "Burglary of an unoccupied conveyance" 06:34:55 * pikhq_ especially 'loves' things like "felons can't vote". 06:35:07 i woke up in jail not knowing why i was there 06:40:37 what happened? 06:42:14 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3). 07:08:43 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:15:54 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 07:18:09 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 07:53:26 -!- andrew has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:59:16 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:06:09 -!- andrew has joined. 08:25:11 Erlonnd, I was convicted of a slew of burglary and theft charges that should have been rolled up into 1 charge that I could have gotten expunged from my record. The limit for expunging is 4 charges so it's pointless with 7 felonies. 08:31:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:46:16 -!- LexiciScriptor has joined. 08:51:18 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:59:52 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: GTG). 08:59:57 -!- tromp_ has joined. 09:04:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:06:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:26:18 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:32:08 -!- jaboja has joined. 09:32:16 -!- jaboja has quit (Excess Flood). 09:32:36 -!- jaboja has joined. 10:07:42 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:10:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:50:53 -!- anybody has joined. 10:50:53 -!- anybody has quit (Client Quit). 11:00:27 -!- tromp_ has joined. 11:04:59 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:15:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 11:28:26 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:29:27 -!- jaboja has joined. 11:35:30 [wiki] [[OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46344&oldid=45951 * 82.25.49.46 * (+1) /* List of OISCs */ Subleq's conditional is "less than or equal to 0", not just "less than 0" 11:35:52 -!- boily has joined. 11:37:55 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:51:58 -!- jaboja has joined. 11:54:37 [wiki] [[Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46345&oldid=45991 * 82.25.49.46 * (-9) /* External resources */ TechTinkering URL to point to new GH-based site 12:01:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 12:05:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:20:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ABDOMINAL CHICKEN). 12:52:14 -!- Trioxin2 has joined. 12:56:04 -!- Trioxin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:04:30 -!- bender| has joined. 13:06:49 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:07:18 [wiki] [[The chan-esoteric stack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46346&oldid=46342 * Stalem * (+95) Added CHIP-8 13:07:44 -!- mezkhalin has joined. 13:09:00 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:11:00 lmbdabot ? 13:11:14 whoops 13:14:29 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:20:33 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:47:16 -!- Trioxin2 has changed nick to Trioxin. 13:51:21 -!- Trioxin2 has joined. 13:54:56 -!- Trioxin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:07:58 -!- kaikai2199 has joined. 14:11:34 -!- kaikai2199 has quit (Quit: 离开). 14:19:47 test 14:19:52 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 14:20:22 -!- quintopia has changed nick to Guest15657. 14:21:15 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:21:18 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:23:00 -!- Guest15657 has changed nick to quintopia. 14:23:02 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 14:23:02 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:25:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:33:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:35:55 -!- Treio has joined. 14:36:23 -!- mauris has joined. 14:38:15 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:50:52 -!- Treio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:51:32 -!- spiette has joined. 14:52:29 -!- Treio has joined. 14:55:27 -!- Treio has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:55:39 [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46347&oldid=45470 * YoYoYonnY * (+0) Fixed a typo 14:55:53 -!- Treio has joined. 15:09:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:25:16 -!- asie has joined. 15:26:23 hello 15:26:37 Hi 15:32:08 greetings 15:32:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:34:03 grtngs 15:34:12 hi asie 15:34:24 ahis523 15:34:28 haven't been here for ages 15:36:35 one of the ancients! although you were pretty young when you were ancient. 15:36:58 yes 15:37:01 like 15:37:03 i'm 19 now 15:37:06 i joined when i was like 11 or 12? 15:37:12 that's almost half my life woah 15:37:13 i recall 11 15:37:19 oerjan: yeah i suspect 2008 15:37:22 still 15:37:41 i'm curious as to anything that might've happened that i missed 15:37:43 i see a lot more -bots 15:37:56 also i did mature a lot, i think so at least 15:38:09 at least i think my code doesn't suck as much anymore 15:38:17 the bots hover around 10% of the channel 15:38:17 i guess that's a good measure of maturity 15:38:26 oh man, 2008 was that long ago.. 15:38:30 Hi, asie! 15:38:36 Hi, Taneb! 15:38:48 Jeez, back in 2008 I hadn't got here yet 15:38:53 That was... 2010? 15:38:57 I'm an ancient who remembers nothing about the ancient days 15:38:59 asie: the last time you were here was mar 10 of last year 15:39:05 quintopia: I did lurk briefly 15:39:05 2008 was about when I joined for the first time probably 15:39:11 but I wasn't really active per se 15:39:16 that was the last time you spoke 15:39:18 I think the last time I was active might've been 12-13? 15:39:41 even then, it's been ages since i was "into" esolangs 15:39:43 wow is it time for one of my many internet-wide encounters with asiekierka 15:39:50 mauris: what communities? 15:39:59 i know someone who knew me from ZZT and Minecraft. a rare-but-not-surprising combination 15:40:04 i'm nooodl! 15:40:06 nooodl!? 15:40:09 oh man i missed you so much 15:40:12 \o/ 15:40:16 well, not really, but i liked you a lot 15:40:19 so i guess i retroactively miss you now 15:40:32 aw~ i am around in here most of the time 15:40:37 asikierka... that name sounds familiar 15:40:39 Hey, didn't you do some DS homebrew at some point? 15:40:41 yes i have 15:40:44 wireworld ds 15:40:46 oh yeah 15:40:47 which was 20% code from #dsdev on blitzed 15:40:49 40% copypasta 15:40:51 40% gluecode 15:40:55 Haha 15:40:56 but i was too young to care 15:41:12 then my ds lite's hinge broke 15:41:16 and there were no more homebrews 15:41:21 It's further than I got when I tried to delve into homebrew 15:41:27 remember rocks 'n' diamonds. good times :'> 15:41:30 oh yeah 15:41:37 it's still around 15:41:39 being like freakin', 8 and 9 on the internet 15:41:43 they recently put up a git repo for development 15:41:47 also yeah 15:41:52 being 8 or 9 on the internet was both a blessing and a curse 15:41:55 i now feel like an internet native 15:41:58 but a real life foreigner 15:42:17 I didn't get regular on the internet until 2006 I think 15:42:18 right now i'm blasting music through a zx spectrum+ 128k i got fixed 15:42:21 i know that feeling :( 15:42:25 I'd have been 11 15:42:34 should port some esolangs to it to learn the z80 15:43:09 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:43:41 mauris: anyhow, what you missed: i got into slice-of-life cartoons from japan, i got into minecraft modding then got out of it then got into it again repeat a few times, i made some random projects 15:43:41 hmm, i don't have complete logs on my vps. they're on my old laptop. does anyone have greppable logs to tell me when i first joined? 15:51:16 i'm pretty sure fizzie does. 15:51:29 hm very idle 15:53:17 LexiciScriptor: you around mate? 15:53:36 mezkhalin hey 15:53:50 ahoy! hows it going? 15:54:37 nothing new programming-wise :P 15:55:20 well in a sense i guess just taking in the environment your brain is sort of programming :P 15:55:39 anyways i wanted to tell you i did get around to writing the article on pisano programming 15:55:40 I've been trying to prove that insertion sort is a sorting algorithm using Agda 15:55:49 It's slow progress 15:56:03 don't know what Agda really is, i'll have to look into it 15:56:12 Proof assistant language 15:56:23 It's dependently typed and functional 15:56:27 And also total 15:56:33 ah ok now i get it, i got the formulation of your sentence completely wrong 15:57:05 i grouped "is a sorting algorithm using agda" ie insertion sort is using agda 15:57:28 Ah, sorry! 15:57:32 does sound like a complex task though 15:57:41 no dont apologize the fault was mine :) 15:58:00 mezkhalin: yesterday I checked some articles about the pisano period and maybe there is an algorithm < O(n^2) 15:58:05 i'm not very proficient in parsing text messages very well 15:58:09 It's one of the easiest sorting algorithms to prove, I think 15:58:17 I can do it on paper easily 15:58:51 Taneb: i'd still call that impressive by my standards ;) you could regard me as "dumb" really 15:59:06 LexiciScriptor: an algorithm for finding the length of p(n) for any n? 15:59:18 Naw, I just have more of a maths background than you, I guess 15:59:20 that sounds interesting 15:59:21 Or at least a different one 15:59:50 Taneb: most likely, i only got so far as to an equivalent of 11-12th grade maybe 16:00:09 What's that in British? 16:00:12 the rest has been hazily distributed reading on the internet :P 16:00:23 GCSE level? 16:00:34 british um, by the age of 18-19 would be a better scale 16:00:40 Oh, A-level 16:00:42 That's pretty good 16:01:10 yeah i'd say so. but not as high as i'd wanted 16:01:24 and now i'm almost 25 jeez 16:08:50 -!- Treio has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:10:10 how high is your Taneb? 16:10:11 who here knows lots of machine learning algos? 16:10:32 mezkhalin: I'm sober 16:10:44 And in my third year of university 16:11:28 LexiciScriptor: since p(n) cannot be larger than n^2 (can it be larger than n?), you'd think so... 16:12:58 Taneb: heh what difference an s can make. nice, you're almost finished then? 16:13:23 I've got another year (I'm doing a four year course) 16:13:24 oerjan: having the modulo sequence, yes 16:14:02 you'll end up with a nice degree then and magnificent knowledge 16:14:10 I certainly hope so 16:14:15 oerjan: we're talking pisano sequences here 16:14:45 Taneb: given the impression i've gotten you'll do perfectly fine i think :) 16:15:01 I'm not very good at putting effort into things 16:15:15 better than me, that's for sure! 16:17:19 oerjan: finding the length of a pisano sequence p(n) for any n yields wildy varying results. there's no general formula afaik 16:17:31 *for any n > 0 16:21:30 It is never more than n^2 16:21:53 Because there's only n^2 pairs of numbers modulo n 16:22:52 oerjan: with n =3, the Pisano sequence is 0, 1, 1, 2, 0, 2, 2, 1 16:23:01 Which has length 8 16:26:59 Taneb: OEIS says there is an explicit formula for the nth term in terms of the prime factorization of n. So it at least has as much an explicit formula as the totient function does. 16:29:56 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:37:35 one month ago https://arin.ga/hyenKJ/raw today https://arin.ga/9X5ujU/raw 16:37:42 12 minutes faster! 16:40:14 Nice! 16:40:40 yay! 16:41:03 mezkhalin: he spoke about an algorithm, not a formula. there's an obvious O(n^2) one (where n is the number, not its bit size) 16:42:51 actually it's easy to see (new things for me!) that p(n) <= 6n 16:45:04 quintopia: it's not an explicit formula, it just splits up into prime powers and those are still mysterious. 16:45:45 oerjan: same goes for the totient function :) 16:45:53 oerjan: sorry mate, my math is sub subpar so don't take my ramblings as truth or the likes 16:46:27 quintopia: no it doesn't. you don't have a formula for a(p^n) (or a(p)) in general. 16:46:39 you do have that for the totient. 16:47:10 although i see it's conjectured that p^n follows from p 16:48:02 -!- mauris has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:48:06 quintopia: to be clear, i meant it's still mysterious _after_ you've managed to factorize it. 16:57:21 -!- Reece` has joined. 17:07:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:10:08 -!- Treio has joined. 17:10:26 -!- mauris has joined. 17:17:20 -!- mihow has joined. 17:22:00 -!- tromp_ has joined. 17:25:02 izabera, is this in brainfuck? 17:25:03 Wow 17:25:45 yes 17:26:30 Impressive! 17:27:04 uh i didn't write the mandelbrot, i wrote the interpreter 17:27:09 Oh 17:27:11 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:27:13 It's still impressive! 17:27:16 Just not your impressive 17:27:23 Someone else is impressive! 17:27:24 heh 17:28:43 I keep thinking about an idea for an optimizing bf compiler I keep coming back to 17:28:51 Ought to actually write it sometime 17:28:58 what's the idea? 17:29:10 -!- bb010g has joined. 17:29:58 Turning balanced single or possibly 2-depth loops into hardcoded polynomials 17:30:06 -!- nycs has joined. 17:30:31 i do that 17:30:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:30:34 Oooh 17:30:41 My intuition wasn't completely loony! 17:30:42 well, only for 1-depth 17:31:01 I think you can do it for 2-depth but I'm not sure 17:31:10 Shit, I've got to get to a lecture 17:31:12 Speak to you later 17:31:16 bye 17:34:24 the most "complex" thing it can optimize is something like a balanced loop with a zero-loop inside of it, like [>>++<+>>>----<<<<[-]] 17:42:55 -!- Reece` has quit (Quit: Alsithyafturttararfunar.). 17:43:28 -!- Reece` has joined. 18:04:36 -!- mezkhalin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:14:09 -!- zadock has joined. 18:19:59 -!- Treio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:34:14 polynomials? 18:37:20 -!- Reece` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:44:00 well, not really 18:44:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:45:15 my guess is that Taneb probably means to reduce [>+++<-] to tape[1] += tape[0] * 3; tape[0] = 0 18:45:18 or something 18:50:04 is there a faster way to do that than that loop? 19:00:04 coppro, at compile time, maybe 19:06:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:06:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:06:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:07:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:07:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:07:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:07:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:07:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:07:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:08:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:08:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:08:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:09:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:09:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:09:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:10:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:10:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:10:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:10:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:10:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:10:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:11:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:11:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:11:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:12:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:12:11 -!- glogbot has joined. 19:12:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:12:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 19:12:26 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:12:33 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:13:28 -!- catern has joined. 19:15:06 -!- vodkode has joined. 19:19:17 Taneb: how? 19:26:15 coppro, consider [->[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<<<] 19:27:09 This'll set cell 1 to 0, cell 2 to the sum of cell 2 and cell 4, cell 3 to the sum of cell 3, cell 2, and the product of one less than cell 1 and the sum of cell 2 and cell 4, and cell 4 to 0 19:28:12 Assuming the loop is ran at all 19:28:37 This can clearly be implemented more efficiently than just looping 19:37:51 fair 19:38:23 I think in a lot of cases it's possible to derive a formula like that automatically 19:41:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:51:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:55:04 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:55:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:56:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:58:43 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:00:08 Taneb: https://arin.ga/2BSrQY/raw 20:00:28 (now it can also generate c) 20:00:38 (figured it was easier to read for most people) 20:05:39 your analysis for cell 3 is too advanced :\ 20:09:45 izabera, it's c_n+1 = c_n + b_n, b_n = b_n-1 + d_n-1, and noting that d is almost always 0 20:10:50 And then you can use summation laws 20:11:14 [wiki] [[GolfScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46348&oldid=44531 * 94.100.212.168 * (-239) 20:15:22 hard :\ 20:17:34 let's see how gcc optimizes that 20:18:35 gcc loops 20:18:44 * izabera feels entitled to not optimize it 20:26:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:29:21 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:34:06 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 20:45:42 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:58:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:08:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:11:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:21:06 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:24:15 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:28:20 91106555419103 21:28:58 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:29:11 -!- gde33 has joined. 21:31:15 is the new largest known prime 21:31:34 numbers a little above 19100, such as the 19103 at the end of that, tend to bring thoughts of the Y2K bug to my mind 21:31:42 I mentally parse it as a typo for 2003 21:31:59 ouch 21:32:26 Y2K genuinely was a problem at one time, but because the effects were recognised in advance, there was time to fix everything important 21:33:26 we were given leaflets about how to compensate for Y2K (which, for example, recommended setting the year on VCRs to one which had the same day-of-week/day-of-month correspondence to 2000) 21:33:51 (VCR = videocassette recorder; pretty much obsolete technology nowadays but they were pretty common in 1999) 21:33:56 who the hell sotes dates as 3 2-digit-numbers? 21:34:29 stores 21:34:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:36:18 myname: well hardly anyone /nowadays/ 21:36:22 but it was common at the time 21:36:31 weird 21:36:39 although, even now, if you look at a file which has a date as part of the filename 21:36:48 -!- mauris_ has joined. 21:36:51 ddmmyy or yymmdd formats are quite common 21:38:05 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:42:27 ais523: yeah. not only in computers, but also printed on paper, such as on bank card POS terminal receipts or food expiry dates. often in very ambiguous formats like yy-mm-dd vs dd-mm-yy vs mm-dd-yy or yy-mm vs mm-yy vs mm-dd vs dd-mm 21:42:54 on #tasvideos a while back we were having a debate about hh:mm versus mm:ss 21:43:05 Luckily at least medicine these days tends to use YYYY-mm or mm-YYYY 21:43:10 (triggered by a game using hh:mm:ss:ff, with one frame being 1/60 of one second; IMO the colon is correct there but lots of people disagreed) 21:43:15 people using dd-mm-yy should burn in hell 21:43:17 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 21:43:20 ais523: ah yes 21:43:39 myname: no, they should learn to put the extra digits in theyear 21:44:00 - should imply yy mm dd 21:44:01 people should just use YYYY-mm-dd or YYYYmmdd 21:44:06 `dateu 21:44:21 these / are for crazy orderings 21:44:32 2016-02-02 21:44:21.269801000+00:00 21:45:05 mm dd yy is just plain crazy 21:48:17 myname: so what about dates between 1 and 100 AD/CE? 21:49:02 what about them? 21:49:33 myname: they naturally only have two digits 21:49:49 a date like 10/11/12 has a lot of possible interpretations 21:49:53 perfect 21:50:42 i never saw a - aeperated date any other way than yy-mm-dd 21:50:54 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:51:01 only / has these weird "anything goes" attitude 21:51:54 what about .-separated dates? I think I've seen those as both dmy and ymd 21:52:08 Then there's the strange traditional unix format of %a %b %_d %H:%M:%S %Z %Y; the unreadable (to me) randomly abbreviated formats like "3 months ago" and "jan 14" and "feb 9 '15" that some websites (like StackExchange) use, and the traditinonal date formats used by the HTTP headers and mail headers. 21:52:15 as a german, i only know dd.mm.yy 21:53:25 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:54:08 -!- LexiciScriptor has left. 21:54:11 -!- LexiciScriptor has quit (Quit: LexiciScriptor). 21:58:14 The nastiest abuse of dates though is when the translated label says something to the effect of “See expiration date on cap (month/date)” but the cap actually has expiration in %d/%m format. 22:00:35 The only good thing I can say about dates printed on products is that at least when there's only one date shown, it's always the expiry or best before date, not the date of manufacture. 22:04:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:07:00 Even then there are exceptions: iirc return tickets for train show the purchase date and the start of validity, but not the end of validity. But that's different from products, because they actually have a start of validity that can be in the future. 22:10:44 -!- __Beavis__ has joined. 22:30:29 -!- mauris has joined. 22:32:29 I'm making a new golphy/usable/terse language called "shorthand" (for now) 22:32:38 |sserv fn:m{srv<=ssv.srv;upn:srv.srcv{sck=>(<<-sck)->>sck}} is a cat server 22:33:06 |ssv fn:m{srv<=ssv.srv;upn:srv.srcv{sck=>(<<-sck)->>sck}} 22:33:06 I mean 22:35:26 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:35:55 -!- mauris has joined. 22:37:59 I just realized that a cat program is basically a repl for that cat programming language 22:39:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:39:39 Even better for a cat server, |ssv;srv<=ssv.srv;upn:srv.srcv{sck=>(<<-sck)->>sck} 22:41:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:42:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:42:48 Cat that terminates on EOF: 22:42:49 w!_.ef{gln(inp);out<<-_} 23:06:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:09:57 -!- Trioxin has joined. 23:12:58 -!- Trioxin2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:13:42 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 23:15:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:18:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:19:45 -!- XorSwap has joined. 23:30:14 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 23:31:58 -!- XorSwap has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:32:44 -!- XorSwap has joined. 23:42:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:45:30 -!- mauris_ has joined. 23:46:16 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:48:55 -!- mauris__ has joined. 23:50:50 -!- Treio has joined. 23:51:51 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:52:37 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:52:50 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...).