00:00:04 `? frotz 00:00:04 frotz? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:03:41 `? inquisition 00:03:42 inquisition? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:04:39 . o O ( `le/rn inquisition/The Spanish Inquisition? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ ) 00:07:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:09:49 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:10:54 -!- Gracco has joined. 00:11:20 -!- Gracco has left. 00:22:31 <\oren\> good evenint-e 00:24:10 hmm, but is it really good? 00:25:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:25:28 What elements should I use in Stack Magic? I want them to be real elements, and I want 12. I have 4: Hydrogen, Iron, Lead, and Gold 00:25:47 Uranium and maybe plutonium, likely 00:26:10 how are you even going to distinguish those two 00:26:35 Distance from Earth? Also, planethood. 00:26:41 <\oren\> tin, zinc, 00:27:05 <\oren\> copper, nickel, silver, mercury 00:27:42 potassium 00:27:53 <\oren\> sulphur, aluminium, carbon, 00:28:09 (Just because I can never recall the english name of that element.) 00:28:09 OK, I've decided on some. 00:28:32 Instead of copper, I used silicon. Silicon will be used for control or something. 00:29:03 re: the question mark thing 00:29:06 I'll replace Plutonium with Sulphur, and Osmium with Arsenic 00:29:18 Wait, I didn't include osmium 00:29:19 i'd probably use it for sentences like this? 00:29:45 do you have any noble gases? 00:30:26 int-e: Argon 00:30:36 <\oren\> argon, neon, krypton, xenon radon 00:30:38 It's used for neutralization or something 00:30:52 <\oren\> er, i'm missing one 00:31:14 Should I bump it up to 16? 00:31:40 <\oren\> wolfram is a good element 00:31:41 \oren\: Yeah, Helium 00:31:58 <\oren\> oh right 00:31:59 the English call it Tungsten 00:32:03 Oxygen, I suppose 00:32:21 <\oren\> i know, but then the symbol W doesn't make sense 00:32:23 int-e: I think it's called Tungsten here too, formerly Wolfram 00:32:29 \oren\: W was for Wolfram 00:33:48 Should I use Tin or Copper? 00:34:48 copper could be useful for fighting crime 00:34:57 int-e: How? 00:35:37 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ChIv8ZjIY35WsQleHyLcmt-q5buNlPFTg_iAvmj7b_k/edit?usp=sharing 00:35:45 "Copper, British or Australian slang for a Police officer, hence the North American 'cop'" 00:36:11 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:36:28 Ah 00:36:29 (I believe it derives from copper helmets that the british police officers used to wear, but didn't verify.) 00:36:42 int-e: But should I use copper or should I use tin? 00:36:54 Or should I replace some other element with copper? 00:37:35 well, tin sounds kind of boring 00:37:40 Fair enough 00:38:14 So I have 16 elements (4 bits), 8 forms (3 bits) 00:38:22 I can represent a single element with an ASCII Character 00:38:25 Or a single item 00:38:28 Of a base element 00:39:50 I could bump it up to 32 I suppose 00:39:55 int-e: What do you think? 00:40:13 Also, I'm calling Tungsten Wolfram because it sounds cooler 00:40:49 Though really, I'm likely going to wind up storing in strings, so to be fair it doesn't really matter 00:40:59 Unless I use characters for save files 00:42:11 hppavilion[1]: I think you need some sort of semantics :P 00:42:38 Probably xD 00:42:54 int-e: But should I bump it up to 32 elements? 00:43:12 And what should the manifestations be? Currently I just have the 5 states of matter 00:44:43 Yeah, I think I'll bump it up to 32 00:49:19 One more slot 00:52:21 OK, 32 elements. Not going any higher than that. 00:56:04 int-e: Next, to figure out what's done with these materials. 01:03:04 int-e: Do you have any sense of realistic quantities? I'm making recipies, and need help figuring out the material cost of recipies; e.g. how much bronze is required to make armour 01:06:55 `ls 01:06:56 ​:-( \ 0 \ 113500 \ a \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort \ lib \ madness 01:07:00 `cat bdsmreclist 01:07:01 YOU are out of order. 01:07:30 `cat :-( 01:07:30 ​☹ 01:07:42 `cat index.html?dl=1812 01:07:43 ​>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[--------------------------------------<[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<>++++++++++<[->>>+<<<]>>>[<<[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]>-]<<[-]<[-<+>]<>,----------]<>>+<<[->><[->>+<<]>[-<+>]>[-<+>]<<[->>+>+<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]<[-<+>]<<<]>>>>++++++++++<<[->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<]>>[-]>>>++++++++++<[->-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<]>[-] 01:07:57 huh 01:09:31 Phantom_Helloover! 01:11:41 if you could be an ordinal which would you be 01:13:39 Phantom_Hoover: As in the type of number? That's a tough question... 01:13:40 I'll just refuse to be well-ordered. 01:13:54 constructivist scum! 01:14:55 OK, so currently the design spec says you can make armour by making a mold for that type of armour (somehow) then having it on the stack above at least enough of the materials used, then mold furnacing it (by having the mold furnace be the selected tool) 01:15:33 Phantom_Hoover: http://countyoursheep.keenspot.com/d/20030611.html seems relevant (good night) 01:15:42 You can also make an obsidian knife by hitting a piece of obsidian with a hammer then having stack: obsidian shard, string, hilt and using the "hands" tool 01:16:06 This is all text-based, mind you, and you have to juggle a stack to play 01:16:31 There'll also be a few Alchemical tools used for constructing magical items 01:17:51 Not to mention that all commands entered are sent through a semi-thue system. Yeah. 01:18:11 `run tail -n +1 dog 01:18:12 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 01:18:22 ...What is that? 01:18:30 `run tail -n +1 cat 01:18:30 Meow~~ >^.^< 01:18:39 `cat faith 01:18:40 No output. 01:18:45 `cat fu 01:18:45 ​ᶠᶸᶜᵏ♥ᵧₒᵤ 01:18:47 `file faith 01:18:48 faith: empty 01:18:57 `file madness 01:18:58 madness: data 01:19:02 `cat madness 01:19:03 ​STOP THE MADNESS 01:19:07 Ah, right. 01:21:25 Hey everyone, look at this file I created. 01:21:26 `ls 01:21:27 ​:-( \ 0 \ yellow \ 113500 \ a \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort 01:21:41 I have no clue what I'm doing xD 01:22:35 `run file yellow 01:22:36 ​yellow: empty 01:23:04 I know what to put in the file! 01:23:09 Unos momentos por favor. 01:23:58 `cat yellow 01:23:59 ​Just kidding! Green! 01:25:00 I'm so mature and whatnot. 01:27:20 tswett: Yes. You are. 01:27:38 I'm trying to make a small text game based on stacks and semi-thue systems. But I don't know what I'm doing xD 01:27:50 I think I'll move to a new doc 01:28:38 I need exactly 6 elements 01:29:33 or maybe some other nice number 01:30:14 How about... Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Wood, Metal, Void 01:30:28 tswett: Does that look like a good combination of elements? 01:31:17 I don't think I can answer that. But I *like* that combination of elements. 01:33:08 Great! 01:34:37 tswett: I think I should probably add one more so I can associate every element with an opposition 01:34:49 Makes sense. 01:35:26 Earth and air seem to kind of be considered opposites, and likewise fire and water. 01:35:36 Wood and metal are kind of "opposite-like". 01:35:48 Organic versus inorganic. 01:35:54 tswett: What should be the inverse of void then? Light? 01:36:00 Good question. 01:36:05 Just what do you mean by "void"? 01:36:29 tswett: Nothingness; the complete absence of anything, including possibly spacetime itself. 01:37:19 Oooh, oooh, you start with a semi-randomized amount of each element and have to work from there 01:37:21 If void is the absence of spacetime, then maybe the opposite of that is the presence of spacetime. 01:37:29 "The fabric of spacetime", so to speak. 01:37:34 I mean, I'm kind of making up BS here. 01:37:45 tswett: True, but that doesn't seem particularly useful xD. 01:37:49 Light seems to be OK. 01:38:02 To get more fire, you must burn wood. To get more wood, you must plant trees. 01:38:04 But I think that thinking of space itself as being made of something is kind of a cool thought. 01:38:49 If you have only a bit of wood and need more fire NOW, you might just have to sacrifice future usage of wood in alchemy in order to survive in the short-term 01:39:44 Also, you have to plant wood in earth xD 01:40:14 So what use is void? 01:41:26 tswett: Well, if you inverse combine air and void (just making up possible mechanics here), for example, you could possibly suck the air out of the atmosphere. 01:41:29 Or something 01:43:49 tswett: Do you think you could be any help with creating combinations for spells? 01:55:09 [wiki] [[~ATH]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45685&oldid=45684 * 162.231.140.49 * (+7) 02:08:07 It's tough to get people to collaborate with you, isn't it? 02:08:18 tswett: Yes. Very much so. 02:08:19 xD 02:08:52 I've... I wouldn't say I've given up getting people to collaborate with me. 02:08:59 [wiki] [[Seed]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45686&oldid=17635 * 162.231.140.49 * (+254) 02:09:39 But I usually assume that if I want some project to get done, I'll probably have to do at least, like, 85% of the work or whatever. 02:10:17 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:11:03 But I can also count on being able to get the occasional bit of advice. 02:11:18 As for helping create combinations for spells... 02:11:35 I don't really know the context here. I'd have to learn more about your ideas. 02:12:01 You know, you do have a lot of interesting ideas. 02:13:53 The one that *I* remember finding most interesting is the language where the syntax forms a graph instead of just a tree. 02:19:40 `cat bdsmreclist 02:19:40 YOU are out of order. 02:24:56 OK, there are 3 ways of storing data: The inventory stack, the accumulator, and the satchel, together called the Stacchel 02:25:36 You can manipulate a stack normally (though $ for drop actually puts something in your satchel and : for dup takes something out of your satchel based on the ToS) 02:25:51 And to combine items, you must ^ (accumulate) into an already-filled accumulator 02:30:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:31:25 -!- andrew has joined. 02:53:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:55:15 Two new elements I'm considering adding: Information and Obfuscation 02:55:25 what does tswett think? 02:58:53 10 commands. \()^_$:!%@. 02:59:09 Though you can also do verbose commands if it suits you better, which it probably does 03:02:07 -!- ^v has joined. 03:05:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:06:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:09 -!- andrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:32 -!- andrew has joined. 03:20:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:24:12 tswett: You active? 03:32:05 No? 03:32:06 :( 03:43:48 hi 03:44:17 what documentation do you have so far? 03:57:11 quintopia: I have a document specifying the elements, an overview of the gameplay, a list of commands, and am just now starting on the recipes. 03:57:30 It's a quite simple game for now, but it might get more advanced 03:58:22 -!- ent0nces has joined. 03:58:28 is it a game or a language? 04:01:09 Or is it both? 04:06:14 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 04:06:43 quintopia: zzo38: It's a game that works on a stack-based language, though one of the beautiful things is that it need not be typed by hand: One can engineer a client that does it for you 04:08:26 -!- Wallacoloo has left. 04:08:44 But you still need to understand stacks ;) 04:09:01 (Unless it's a REALLY high-level client, in which case it's no longer a fun game) 04:14:43 -!- Hooloo42 has changed nick to Hoolootwo. 04:15:42 (If it indeed turns out to be a fun game in the first place) 04:19:18 Magic: the Gathering uses stack too 04:21:25 what about magic the gathering card deck of programming language? 04:36:23 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDeam. 04:41:10 -!- andrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:41:35 -!- andrew has joined. 04:51:17 -!- andrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:51:45 -!- andrew has joined. 04:54:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:55:58 @messages- 04:55:58 tswett said 5h 41m 15s ago: So can you give a counterexample to my assertion that if a function is differentiable at a point, then it's also differentiable on a disc surrounding that point? 04:56:09 -!- andrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:56:35 -!- andrew has joined. 04:57:30 @tell tswett i already did, and mauris repeated it when you saw it. 04:57:30 Consider it noted. 05:33:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 05:33:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 05:35:26 -!- MC8_ has joined. 05:36:32 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:36:45 -!- trnv2 has joined. 05:37:28 -!- MC8 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:37:28 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:37:58 -!- vifino has joined. 05:39:38 @tell tswett I don't think that works. I think in the complex numbers, that's not differentiable at 0. <-- it works if the original function is bounded hth 05:39:38 Consider it noted. 05:40:14 -!- Hooloo42 has joined. 05:41:25 @tell tswett in fact then you don't even need a continuous function to start with 05:41:25 Consider it noted. 05:42:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 05:42:04 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 05:42:05 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 05:42:05 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (*.net *.split). 05:43:02 -!- j-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 05:43:04 -!- singingboyo has quit (*.net *.split). 05:43:30 -!- trnv2 has changed nick to trn. 05:44:14 * oerjan needs to finish learning discussions before sending @tells 05:44:22 *reading 05:47:31 -!- ent0nces_ has joined. 05:47:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 05:47:33 -!- tromp has joined. 05:48:06 -!- singingboyo has joined. 05:52:34 -!- puck1pedia has joined. 05:56:05 -!- ent0nces has quit (*.net *.split). 05:56:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (*.net *.split). 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host closed the connection). 06:22:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:24:53 -!- Hooloo42 has changed nick to Hoolootwo. 06:35:33 -!- andrew has joined. 06:36:22 -!- j-bot has joined. 06:54:03 OK, Perhaps I should add foriegn-language commands to MSM 07:02:51 -!- ent0nces_ has quit. 07:03:30 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:09:13 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 07:12:16 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 07:13:42 -!- J_Arcane_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:21:58 `ls 07:21:59 ​:-( \ 0 \ yellow \ 113500 \ a \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort 07:22:07 `file 0 07:22:08 0: ASCII text 07:22:11 `cat 0 07:22:12 echo code injection 07:22:16 `rm 0 07:22:17 No output. 07:22:25 `file 113500 07:22:26 113500: ASCII text, with very long lines, with CRLF line terminators 07:22:31 `cat 113500 07:22:32 ​--[------->++<]>-.[->+++<]>.+++++.-----------.+++++++++.+++++++++.+[->+++<]>++.+.--[--->+<]>-.--[->++<]>.--[->++<]>-.+.++[->+++<]>++.+++++.++++++.[->+++++<]>+++.+[--->+<]>+++.++[->+++<]>.>++++++++++.-[->++++<]>-.[->+++<]>.+++++.-----------.+++++++++.+++++++++.+[->+++<]>++.+.--[--->+<]>-.--[->++<]>.--[->++<]>-.+.++[->+++<]>++.+++++.+++++.++++++.[ 07:22:38 `rm 113500 07:22:40 No output. 07:22:42 `file a 07:22:43 a: ASCII text 07:22:45 `cat a 07:22:46 blah//c 07:22:51 `rm a 07:22:53 No output. 07:22:55 `ls 07:22:56 ​:-( \ yellow \ a.o \ a.out \ argv.py \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort \ lib \ madness 07:23:00 `rm a.out 07:23:02 No output. 07:23:04 `file a.o 07:23:05 a.o: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped 07:23:10 `rm a.o 07:23:12 No output. 07:23:16 `cat argv.py 07:23:17 import sys \ print(sys.argv) 07:23:21 `rm argv.py 07:23:24 No output. 07:23:30 `cat blah 07:23:31 hi 07:23:34 `rm blah 07:23:35 No output. 07:23:44 `ls blah* 07:23:45 ls: cannot access blah*: No such file or directory 07:23:53 `ls 07:23:54 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ emoticons \ error.log \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort \ lib \ madness \ MaFV \ nwzouew \ oerjan \ pas 07:24:16 `ls *la* 07:24:16 ls: cannot access *la*: No such file or directory 07:24:30 `` ls blah* 07:24:31 blah \ blah \ blah \ blah \ blah 07:24:39 wat 07:24:44 `cat blah \ blah 07:24:44 hi 07:24:45 morn, oerjan 07:24:48 `rm blah \ blah 07:24:50 No output. 07:24:55 morning FireFly 07:25:04 `cat blah \ blah \ blah 07:25:05 No output. 07:25:12 `rm blah \ blah \ blah 07:25:14 No output. 07:25:25 `file dc 07:25:26 dc: ASCII text 07:25:29 `cat dc 07:25:29 ​! ls -e a 07:25:34 `rm dc 07:25:36 No output. 07:25:55 `cat error.log 07:25:56 I 5053 pci_id: con ing! \ I 4681 ehci 0xf43d000:15: regista14: [0xbffff 0xfed nosabled 00-02] Zonseres: brips byted nored) \ W 3654 e8] PGTT ASF! 00f00000003.2: 0x000 - 0000: 00009dbfffec00000: Pround/f1743colled \ I 4076 verse.' \ I 4764 He trusts to you to set them free, \ I 858 your pocket?' he went on, turning to Alice. \ I 898 would be offende 07:26:07 `file error.log 07:26:08 error.log: ASCII text, with very long lines 07:26:14 `culprits error.log 07:26:15 int-e 07:26:19 `rm error.log 07:26:21 No output. 07:26:28 `file etc 07:26:28 etc: directory 07:26:34 `ls etc 07:26:35 luarocks 07:26:42 `file etc/* 07:26:43 etc/*: ERROR: cannot open `etc/*' (No such file or directory) 07:26:48 `` file etc/* 07:26:49 etc/luarocks: directory 07:26:56 `find etc 07:26:56 etc \ etc/luarocks \ etc/luarocks/config.lua 07:27:18 `` grep luarocks bin/* 07:27:19 bin/luarocks:local command_line = require("luarocks.command_line") \ bin/luarocks:program_name = "luarocks" \ bin/luarocks:commands.help = require("luarocks.help") \ bin/luarocks:commands.pack = require("luarocks.pack") \ bin/luarocks:commands.unpack = require("luarocks.unpack") \ bin/luarocks:commands.build = require("luarocks.build") \ bin/luaroc 07:27:45 `ls 07:27:46 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort \ lib \ madness \ MaFV \ nwzouew \ oerjan \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quo 07:27:56 `file factor 07:27:57 factor: directory 07:28:04 `find factor 07:28:05 factor \ factor/factor.image 07:28:15 `` grep factor bin/* 07:28:16 Binary file bin/units matches 07:28:35 `` grep factor.image bin/* 07:28:36 No output. 07:28:37 `file factor/factor.image 07:28:37 factor/factor.image: data 07:28:45 `hexdump -C factor/factor.image 07:28:46 hexdump: invalid option -- ' ' \ usage: hexdump [-bcCdovx] [-e fmt] [-f fmt_file] [-n length] \ [-s skip] [file ...] \ hd [-bcdovx] [-e fmt] [-f fmt_file] [-n length] \ [-s skip] [file ...] 07:28:49 oops 07:28:52 `` hexdump -C factor/factor.image 07:28:53 00000000 0c 0d 0e 0f 00 00 00 00 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................| \ 00000010 00 00 5c 2c e1 7f 00 00 e0 fb bb 05 00 00 00 00 |..\,............| \ 00000020 00 f0 11 28 e1 7f 00 00 20 56 f5 00 00 00 00 00 |...(.... V......| \ 00000030 2c f3 65 2c e1 7f 00 00 05 00 5c 2c e1 7f 00 00 |,.e,......\,....| \ 00000040 25 00 5c 2c e1 7 07:29:09 `culprits factor/factor.image 07:29:11 oerjan elliott ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull sgeo 07:29:18 hm 07:29:32 `factor 111 07:29:33 111: 3 37 07:29:36 probably best to keep it for now 07:29:40 probably 07:29:41 `ls 07:29:42 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ faith \ fu \ good \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort \ lib \ madness \ MaFV \ nwzouew \ oerjan \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quo 07:29:48 `file faith 07:29:48 faith: empty 07:29:52 `rm faith 07:29:54 No output. 07:29:57 `file fu 07:29:58 fu: UTF-8 Unicode text 07:30:01 `cat fu 07:30:02 ​ᶠᶸᶜᵏ♥ᵧₒᵤ 07:30:06 `rm fu 07:30:08 No output. 07:30:12 `file head 07:30:13 head: empty 07:30:16 `rm head 07:30:18 No output. 07:30:20 `file hello 07:30:21 hello: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, BuildID[sha1]=0x3db23553f95ba53719226a2c73a0ad9d79e975ab, not stripped 07:30:28 `rm hello 07:30:30 No output. 07:30:35 `file hello.c 07:30:35 hello.c: ASCII text 07:30:39 `cat hello.c 07:30:39 const char main[] = "AXAYAZA[A\\ATX-pppp-0```- ///P^VTXH10XP4>40PZ414>P_\x0f\x05XATASARAQAP\xc3Hello, world!\n"; 07:30:44 `ls src 07:30:45 brainfuck.fu \ egobot.tar.xz \ emmental.hs \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ fizziecoin.jpg \ fueue.c \ ploki \ ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 \ ul.emm 07:30:56 `` mv hello.c src 07:30:59 No output. 07:31:03 `ls 07:31:04 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hi \ hours \ ibin \ index.html?dl=1812 \ interps \ le \ letersort \ lib \ madness \ MaFV \ nwzouew \ oerjan \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.p 07:31:09 `cat hi 07:31:10 ho 07:31:12 `rm hi 07:31:14 No output. 07:31:16 `cat hours 07:31:17 No output. 07:31:20 `rm hours 07:31:22 No output. 07:31:29 `rm index* 07:31:30 rm: cannot remove `index*': No such file or directory 07:31:33 `` rm index* 07:31:35 No output. 07:31:39 `cat le 07:31:39 cat: le: Is a directory 07:31:43 oh 07:31:48 `cat letersort 07:31:49 ​#include \ int compare(char *s,char *c){return*c-*s;}int main(){char w[40];int c,i=0;while( \ 1){c=getchar();if(c<=32||c==EOF){qsort(w,i,1,compare);w[i]=0;printf("%s",w);if(c \ ==EOF)break;putchar(c);i=0;}else{w[i++]=c;}}} 07:32:09 `` ls bin/*sor* 07:32:10 ls: cannot access bin/*sor*: No such file or directory 07:32:17 `rm letersort 07:32:19 No output. 07:32:20 `ls 07:32:21 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ madness \ MaFV \ nwzouew \ oerjan \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.ppy \ script.py \ selflink \ share \ src \ temp 07:32:27 `cat madness 07:32:27 ​STOP THE MADNESS 07:32:31 `rm madness 07:32:33 No output. 07:32:36 `file lib 07:32:36 lib: directory 07:32:42 `find lib 07:32:42 lib \ lib/frink \ lib/c++decl \ lib/interp \ lib/dcc \ lib/frink.jar \ lib/cdecl \ lib/karma 07:32:49 `file MaFV 07:32:50 MaFV: C source, ASCII text 07:32:53 `cat MaFV 07:32:54 ​#include \ \ int c; \ \ void s() \ { \ unsigned int m = 0xFFFF; \ #define F(m,n,v,c,b) \ \ for (int v = 0; v < 16; v++) { \ \ if ((m & (1 << v)) && (c)) { \ \ unsigned int n = m - (1 << v); \ \ b \ \ 07:33:10 `url MaFV 07:33:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/MaFV 07:33:41 `` ls bin/Ma* 07:33:42 ls: cannot access bin/Ma*: No such file or directory 07:33:50 `culprits MaFV 07:33:52 elliott 07:33:56 `rm MaFV 07:33:58 No output. 07:34:00 `ls 07:34:00 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ nwzouew \ oerjan \ paste \ people.py \ pref \ prefs \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.ppy \ script.py \ selflink \ share \ src \ temp.o \ test \ test2 07:34:12 `cat nwzouew 07:34:12 cat: nwzouew: Is a directory 07:34:16 wat 07:34:23 `find nwzouew 07:34:23 nwzouew 07:34:36 `` ls -l nw* 07:34:37 total 0 07:34:47 rmdir nwzouew 07:34:58 `rmdir nwzouew 07:34:59 No output. 07:35:04 `cat oerjan 07:35:04 cat: oerjan: Is a directory 07:35:10 `find oerjan 07:35:11 oerjan 07:35:17 `rmdir oerjan 07:35:17 No output. 07:35:27 `cat people.py 07:35:28 No output. 07:35:32 `rm people.py 07:35:34 No output. 07:35:38 `cat pref 07:35:38 1256 ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>>----.>-.<<++++.>>>++++.<+.++.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+.+++.<++++.>>-------------.<<-----.>>-------------------------------------------.>.<<---.<++.-------.>+.<+.+++++.>>>.<<---------.>>++++++++++++.------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++.<<++ 07:35:43 `rm pref 07:35:45 No output. 07:35:48 `cat prefs 07:35:48 1110 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>++>++++++++>++++++++<<<<-]>----.>>>-.<++++.<++++.>>+.++.<<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+.>>>---------.<++++.>----.<-----.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------.>>+.<++.-------.>+.<+.+++++.<.<--------.>++++++++++++.------------.>--------------------------------------------.>------.++.++++++++.<---.+ 07:35:51 `rm prefs 07:35:54 No output. 07:35:56 `ls 07:35:57 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ py.py \ quines \ quotes \ random_elliott \ real \ script.ppy \ script.py \ selflink \ share \ src \ temp.o \ test \ test2 \ testbegin \ testend \ twolines \ Virgolang 07:36:03 `cat py.py 07:36:04 No output. 07:36:07 `rm py.py 07:36:09 No output. 07:36:12 `file quines 07:36:13 quines: directory 07:36:20 `cat random_elliott 07:36:21 elliott \ a \ b \ c \ d \ e \ f \ g \ h \ i \ j \ k \ l \ m \ n \ o \ p \ q \ r \ s \ t \ u \ v \ w \ x \ y \ z 07:36:27 `rm random_elliott 07:36:29 No output. 07:36:33 `cat real 07:36:33 cat: real: No such file or directory 07:36:42 `` ls real* 07:36:43 real 07:36:52 `` cat real* 07:36:53 cat: real: No such file or directory 07:37:04 ... 07:37:10 that's evil 07:37:13 yeah 07:37:18 `` rev real 07:37:19 rev: real: open failed: No such file or directory 07:37:23 huh. 07:37:27 oh. 07:37:32 `` file real 07:37:33 real: broken symbolic link to `wisdom/{the reals}' 07:37:39 huh 07:37:42 `rm real 07:37:44 No output. 07:37:47 `ls 07:37:48 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ script.ppy \ script.py \ selflink \ share \ src \ temp.o \ test \ test2 \ testbegin \ testend \ twolines \ Virgolang \ VirgoLang \ Wierd \ wisdom \ w 07:37:59 `cat script.ppy 07:37:59 for x in users: \ print(t+x) 07:38:04 `rm script.ppy 07:38:06 No output. 07:38:11 `cat script.py 07:38:12 users = ['hppavilion1', 'Not ZombieCheney'] \ print 'These are the users who bothered to edit our file (If you did it, you are hardcore):' \ for x in users: \ print(x+', ') 07:38:23 `rm script.py 07:38:25 No output. 07:38:31 `` ls -l seflink 07:38:32 ls: cannot access seflink: No such file or directory 07:38:35 `` ls -l selflink 07:38:36 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 3 Jun 12 03:18 selflink 07:38:43 `rm selflink 07:38:45 No output. 07:38:52 `rm temp.o 07:38:54 No output. 07:38:57 `cat test 07:38:58 0110010000110001100010011001100011110000011100 07:39:00 `rm test 07:39:02 No output. 07:39:03 `cat test2 07:39:04 test 07:39:07 `rm test2 07:39:09 No output. 07:39:12 `cat testbegin 07:39:13 ​たとえばこのメセージ 07:39:19 `rm testbegin 07:39:20 No output. 07:39:22 `ls 07:39:23 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ testend \ twolines \ Virgolang \ VirgoLang \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 07:39:27 `cat testend 07:39:27 ​ 07:39:30 `rm testend 07:39:32 No output. 07:39:35 `cat twolines 07:39:36 first \ second 07:39:41 `rm twolines 07:39:43 No output. 07:39:49 `cat Virgolang 07:39:49 cat: Virgolang: Is a directory 07:39:54 `ls Virgolang 07:39:55 No output. 07:40:01 `rmdir Virgolang 07:40:01 No output. 07:40:07 `rmdir VirgoLang 07:40:07 No output. 07:40:14 `rmdir Wierd 07:40:15 rmdir: failed to remove `Wierd': Not a directory 07:40:19 `cat Wierd 07:40:19 ​ \ \ \ Wierd - Esolang \ \ \ \ 40PZ414>P_\x0f\x05XATASARAQAP\xc3Hello, world!\n"; 07:42:33 `` diff {share,src}/hello 07:42:33 diff: src/hello: No such file or directory 07:42:34 `` paste share/radio* 07:42:35 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/radio.php%3Fout%3Dinline%26shuffle%3D1%26limit%3D1%26filter%3D%2AMitamineLab%2A 07:42:43 `cat share/hello 07:42:44 ​ELF............>......@.....@..................@.8..@....................@.......@.....:.......:......... ...................@......@.....$.......$..............Qtd...........................................................GNU.ﲜ@+Sˆ 07:43:27 FireFly: share/ is often where i put things from . that i don't want to delete 07:43:35 `ls src 07:43:36 brainfuck.fu \ egobot.tar.xz \ emmental.hs \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ fizziecoin.jpg \ fueue.c \ hello.c \ ploki \ ploki-0.6.5.1.tar.bz2 \ ul.emm 07:43:38 Ah 07:43:50 I don't see a point in keeping radio* though 07:44:11 `` mv src/hello.c share/hello2.c 07:44:14 No output. 07:44:31 `` ls bin/*radio* 07:44:32 ls: cannot access bin/*radio*: No such file or directory 07:44:44 `` grep radio bin/* 07:44:45 No output. 07:45:14 FireFly: anyway, i'm not usually cleaning out other than the top. 07:45:21 `ls 07:45:21 ​:-( \ yellow \ autowelcome_status \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 07:45:30 makes sense, it's mostly /hackenv that matters anyway 07:45:40 `` grep autowel bin/* 07:45:41 bin/autowelcome:[ "$1" == "on" ] && echo enabled > autowelcome_status; [ "$1" == "off" ] && echo disabled > autowelcome_status; echo "Autowelcome $(cat autowelcome_status)." 07:45:51 What! 07:46:00 shachaf: is there a problem? 07:46:13 Why is autowelcome writing a state file? 07:46:15 `` culprits autowelcome_* 07:46:17 tswett tswett tswett tswett 07:46:22 That defeats the whole spirit. 07:46:23 ask tswett 07:46:57 what is the spirit? 07:47:23 Doesn't matter now that it's defeated. 07:47:39 `` mv autowelcome_status share; sed -i 's!autow!share/autow!' bin/autowelcome 07:47:41 No output. 07:47:46 `autowelcome 07:47:47 cat: autowelcome_status: No such file or directory \ Autowelcome . 07:47:51 oops 07:47:58 `revert 07:48:05 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 07:48:16 `cat autowelcome_status 07:48:17 disabled 07:48:44 `cat bin/autowelcome 07:48:45 ​[ "$1" == "on" ] && echo enabled > autowelcome_status; [ "$1" == "off" ] && echo disabled > autowelcome_status; echo "Autowelcome $(cat autowelcome_status)." 07:48:58 Try !g? 07:49:10 `` sed -i 's!autow!share/autow!`g' bin/autowelcome 07:49:11 sed: -e expression #1, char 21: unknown option to `s' 07:49:14 argh 07:49:19 `` sed -i 's!autow!share/autow!g' bin/autowelcome 07:49:21 No output. 07:49:25 `autowelcome 07:49:25 cat: share/autowelcome_status: No such file or directory \ Autowelcome . 07:49:32 hm 07:49:32 oops 07:49:38 oh right 07:49:45 `` mv autowelcome_status share 07:49:47 No output. 07:49:48 `autowelcome 07:49:49 Autowelcome disabled. 07:49:51 there. 07:49:55 `ls 07:49:55 ​:-( \ yellow \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 07:50:34 short enough. not sure about wisdom.pdf, i doubt it's up to date anyway 07:50:34 `` cat :-( :-D cat dog canary 07:50:35 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `cat :-( :-D cat dog canary ' 07:50:46 oops 07:50:50 `` cat :-\( :-D cat dog canary 07:50:50 ​☹ \ ☺ \ Meow~~ >^.^< \ ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ \ Spjætt! 07:50:55 canary is essential. the others are jokes. 07:51:01 Right 07:51:12 oh, canary doesn't say 'chirp chirp' anymore 07:51:17 `culprits canary 07:51:19 oerjan oerjan ais523 shachaf ais523 oerjan oerjan ais523 oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan ais523 ais523 ais523 shachaf int-e oerjan elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott elliott ais523 ais523 elliott FreeFull c00kiemon5ter Phantom_Hoover elliott oerjan shachaf elliott ais523 elliott 07:51:20 it's been changes a lot 07:51:22 *d 07:51:31 I don't know why I expected anything else 07:53:21 FireFly: it's even been a directory, which is why `revert now gives a (harmless) error message... 07:53:51 unfortunately changing it back didn't fix it, the error applies when it has _ever_ been a directory... 07:53:58 Hm... 07:54:01 You know what'd be cool? 07:54:07 fizzie has been supposed to fix it for a long time. 07:54:07 A videogame about telling a story. 07:54:46 oerjan: 'fix' as in purge the history of it ever being a directory, essentially? 07:55:15 FireFly: not necessarily. he (or Gregor`) could also fix the actual script, i assume... 07:55:41 otherwise it'd just break again the next time someone does it... 07:56:03 Right, that's true 07:57:13 `cat complaints 07:57:14 cat: complaints: No such file or directory 07:57:20 `cat Complaints 07:57:20 Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing 07:57:29 `ls Complaints 07:57:30 Complaints 07:57:34 ``ls Complaints 07:57:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found 07:57:41 `` ls Complaints 07:57:42 Complaints 07:57:48 Ugh, how do I linux? 07:58:04 hppavilion[2]: that's not an error message, it's an actual complaint that it looks like a directory hth 07:58:14 (i believe zzo38 made it) 07:58:16 oerjan: Really? 07:58:25 yes 07:58:30 Awesome. 07:58:31 `culprits Complaints 07:58:32 Confusing. 07:58:33 hppavilion[1] int-e mroman_ mroman_ mroman_ 07:58:41 oh maybe not him 07:58:41 I should file a complaint about it being confusing. 07:58:51 you do that. 07:58:54 `cat bin/complain 07:58:54 print_args_or_input "$@" >> Complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 07:58:57 `` ls bi/*comp* 07:58:57 ls: cannot access bi/*comp*: No such file or directory 07:58:58 oops 07:59:04 it helps to not typo 07:59:05 Oh yeah, I think I did that, didn't I xD 07:59:49 oerjan: That complaint was filed by me 07:59:54 `` hg log Complaints | grep summary: 07:59:55 summary: complain Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ summary: ` true > Complaints \ summary: echo > Complaints \ summary: complain Bye \ summary: echo Hi >> Complaints 08:00:06 ah 08:00:17 `complain The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint 08:00:19 Complaint filed. Thank you. 08:00:29 `cat Complaints 08:00:30 Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint 08:00:49 `` ls bin/*compl* 08:00:50 bin/complain \ bin/complaints 08:00:53 `complaints 08:00:54 Or did I just ruin it? xD 08:00:54 2 Complaints 08:01:04 nothing we cannot fix 08:01:10 `cat bin/complaints 08:01:10 wc -l Complaints 08:01:16 huh 08:01:29 that's cute 08:01:39 What does wc do again? xD 08:01:41 Better not move the database 08:01:41 `dc 08:01:42 `` rgrep -l Complaint bin 08:01:43 bin/complaints \ bin/complain 08:02:02 `man dc 08:02:04 hppavilion[2]: word count (or line count, in this case) 08:02:05 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 08:02:07 Ah 08:02:12 No output. 08:02:29 `ke 08:02:29 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ke: not found 08:02:52 Huh. I would think any two-letter combination would be a linux command that does exactly what you expect 08:02:56 `` mv Complaints Complaints.mp3; sed -i 's!Complaints!Complaints.mp3!' bin/complain 08:02:59 No output. 08:03:10 i think that should fix all the outstanding complaints hth 08:03:27 oerjan: you forgot to fix bin/complaints hth 08:03:32 Woooooooooooow 08:03:32 oops 08:03:35 `ls 08:03:35 ​:-( \ yellow \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ ibin \ interps \ le \ lib \ paste \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 08:03:48 `` sed -i 's!Complaints!Complaints.mp3!' bin/complaints 08:03:50 No output. 08:04:16 `cat Complaints.mp3 08:04:16 Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint 08:04:19 `complain now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved 08:04:21 Complaint filed. Thank you. 08:04:27 `cat complaints 08:04:27 cat: complaints: No such file or directory 08:04:41 `cat Complaints.mp3 08:04:41 Complaints file lacks file extension making it look like a directory. Which is confusing \ The above complaint looks like an error message, but it's actually a complaint \ now the former complaints make no sense because the complaints file was moved 08:04:55 I'm a very complainy human being 08:05:05 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 08:05:17 oerjan: why would you have a directory called Complaints.mp3 tmns 08:06:17 `complain The complaints above are not using periods properly. 08:06:19 Complaint filed. Thank you. 08:06:58 `complaints 08:06:59 4 Complaints.mp3 08:07:07 lol 08:07:10 This makes it lose its charm 08:07:11 Oh, that might be a problem. 08:08:09 FireFly: What does? 08:08:36 I would think `complaints is supposed to number the Complaints, not the Complaints.mp3 08:10:10 i,i ln -s Complaints.mp3 Complaints && wc -l Complaints && rm Complaints 08:10:42 i,i mv Complaints 'Complaints filed' 08:11:15 -!- teo_anarcho has joined. 08:11:15 `evil 08:11:16 KILL A PUPPY EVERY DAY. 08:11:23 teo_anarcho: YOU SAW NOTHING 08:11:47 `cat evil 08:11:48 cat: evil: Is a directory 08:11:53 `ls evil 08:11:54 313 08:11:56 shachaf: good idea 08:12:02 Dammit, I still don't know how to linux 08:12:03 `? I,I 08:12:04 I,I? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 08:12:31 `file evil 08:12:32 evil: directory 08:12:34 `file evil/313 08:12:35 evil/313: ASCII text 08:12:38 -!- Alcest has joined. 08:12:39 `cat evil/313 08:12:40 Kill a puppy every day. 08:12:48 `cat bin/evil 08:12:49 cat "$(find evil -type f | shuf -n1)" | tr '[:lower:]' '[:upper:]' 08:13:29 `fortune 08:13:30 ​"Spock, did you see the looks on their faces?" \ "Yes, Captain, a sort of vacant contentment." 08:13:31 Should we make something to counteract `evil? 08:13:37 Oh, is that what `fortune is? 08:13:59 Possibly 08:14:05 `good 08:14:06 It takes strength to admit your own weaknesses. 08:14:07 I'm not sure what set of fortunes HackEgo has 08:14:27 `cat bin/good 08:14:28 cat "$(find good -type f | shuf -n1)" 08:14:28 hppavilion[1]: tswett already did, he got a bout of bad conscience 08:14:29 FireFly: hi,hi 08:14:49 * FireFly . o O ( find "$0" -type f ) 08:14:55 Oooh, how about a `sin command that randomly selects a deadly sin from a directory? Sort of like evil, but we really just dump things we hate people doing. You know what? Nevermind. 08:15:04 `cat bin/sin 08:15:04 cat: bin/sin: No such file or directory 08:15:14 FireFly: `evil doesn't work the same 08:15:28 Right, there's the uppercase too 08:15:41 that's too bad 08:16:02 `` echo 'echo "$0"' > bin/dollarzero; chmod +x bin/dollarzero; dollarzero; rm bin/dollarzero 08:16:03 ​/hackenv/bin/dollarzero 08:16:15 should've used mkx 08:16:33 `dollarzero 08:16:34 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dollarzero: not found 08:16:35 `cat bin/mkx 08:16:35 key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key" 08:16:38 `cat bin/mk 08:16:39 ​[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || exit 1; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$key" && echo "$key" 08:16:44 ah, right, slashes 08:17:19 `` mkx 'bin/dollarzero//echo "$0"'; dollarzero; rm bin/dollarzero 08:17:19 bin/dollarzero \ /hackenv/bin/dollarzero 08:17:27 oh, right 08:17:33 -!- teo_anarcho has left. 08:18:05 `good 08:18:05 It takes strength to admit your own weaknesses. 08:18:09 `good 08:18:09 * oerjan swats shachaf for not remembering how his own command works -----### 08:18:09 There is a way out. Finding it will be difficult. It may be the hardest thing you've ever done. Find it anyway. 08:18:49 `ls good 08:18:50 295 \ 503 \ 544 \ 755 \ 786 08:19:02 `neutral 08:19:03 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: neutral: not found 08:19:16 Well clearly we need a `neutral 08:19:28 NOOOO 08:19:38 YEEES 08:19:39 `culprits good 08:19:40 tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett 08:19:41 `culprits evil 08:19:43 tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett tswett 08:19:50 You can see the balance htere 08:19:57 i was already sick of both `evil and `good, just from reading the logs when tswett added them :( 08:20:03 not collaborative enough hth 08:20:24 HackEgo decisions shouldn't be made by fiat 08:20:28 @tell tswett Where's "`neutral"? 08:20:28 Consider it noted. 08:20:28 except when it's oerjan 08:20:38 DAMN RIGHT 08:30:52 shachaf: I don't think Fiat's in the HackEgo business 08:35:58 I should work on my I Ching language 08:42:25 Oooh, 1-valued logic 08:42:26 xD 08:42:32 Or sqrt(2) valued logic 08:55:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:56:43 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:59:11 SQRT(2) VALUED LOGIC 09:00:00 you're drunk, go home 09:02:11 some mathematicians have been drunk before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_with_one_element 09:03:06 ha ha Fun 09:11:33 izabera: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22one-valued+logic%22 09:13:41 Sqrt(2) valued logic, on the other hand... 09:14:55 F_{un}, eh 09:15:01 sounds like a fun field 09:15:10 hppavilion[1]: written in word 09:15:29 izabera: ? 09:15:49 Are you refering to one of the results? 09:15:54 the first one 09:16:40 I do agree that any mathematician who can't use LaTeX or TeX or ConTeXt or anything like that isn't a real mathematician 09:17:09 izabera: I was reading this one though: http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2218364.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents 09:18:19 i can't read more than the the first page 09:18:46 izabera: Oh. Didn't notice that 09:18:47 xD 09:18:51 Shit 09:18:59 Yeah, if you produce a PDF that doesn't have grainy text then you aren't a real mathematician. I'm completely serious. Not kidding. At all. 09:20:13 izabera: Though, it appears it was published in a philosophy paper, so maybe I am drunk 09:20:29 i don't know what the "logic of ejaculations" is and i'm not even sure i want to know it 09:21:45 izabera: How aobut 2+2i valued logic? 09:21:49 Yes. I went there. 09:22:16 nonsense is not really interesting 09:22:17 imho 09:22:47 I know. 09:22:58 But it's interesting to try to come up with bullshit. 09:23:17 strange-valued logics are the domain of toposes, i think, but i've never made the effort to actually learn those. 09:23:21 (and assign meaning to it) 09:23:27 whoa whoa whoa 09:23:28 toposes? 09:23:40 or topoi, if you prefer 09:23:43 izabera: What I think I mean is complex boolean logic 09:24:27 A four-valued logic where everything is either FG, FU, GG, or GU. 09:24:49 i vaguely recall that each topos has an object that corresponds to its "booleans" (was it discriminator?) 09:25:05 That is, 0+0i, 0+1i, 1+0i, or 1+1i 09:25:13 I think I screwed up on the last two 09:25:20 Yeah, definitely screwed up 09:26:12 I suppose it'd be easier to represent them as FF, FT, TF, and TT 09:26:49 I should sleep now. It's 00:30 here. 09:27:02 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 09:27:03 Guhni. 09:31:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:38:10 1182 characters so far. 09:38:48 seriously considering to add a triangular/pentagonal pixel with 1:2 or 2:1 slope 09:44:35 lifthrasiir: what are you working on? 09:44:54 nvd: a scalable pan-Unicode bitmap font (just like /oren/'s, but also scalable). 09:45:00 http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample 09:45:29 Nice! 09:45:33 Your lambda is a bit weird 09:45:46 yeah, trying to fix that :( 09:46:09 the current scheme has a fundamental restriction on the triangle slope (1:1 only) 09:48:26 nvd: the lower-case lambda should be a bit better. for the upper-case lambda, uh, no idea. 09:48:51 (the current shape is essentially an A without a horiz. line) 09:53:31 -!- andrew has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:20:22 -!- Welo has joined. 10:38:34 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:09:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:36:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:39:12 -!- gamemanj has joined. 11:53:19 -!- adsd has joined. 11:53:31 fERz9RtEnkvf7JYmk 11:53:39 What can it be? 11:53:51 type of esolang? Thanks! 11:54:20 a bit too short for a bitcoin address ;) 11:54:36 what do you mean? 11:54:48 0Hdd6lTePiSGz2j4E1Px 11:54:55 tyQq55KwpLnj8Ts5vJxzW0I 11:55:09 Anybody can help 11:55:11 T.T 11:55:17 not without context 11:55:59 `` echo no | shachaf1sum 11:56:00 49qqqo3o048p671676o4519855q137r37ps71sqp - 11:56:05 Name of the proble: Go fishing! 11:56:12 Hint: 1. Esolang 11:57:45 base64 the esolang 11:58:53 Any link 11:59:04 It's look like base64 but I cant decode 11:59:45 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=45687&oldid=45568 * 213.162.68.131 * (+15) /* D */ add Deadfish 12:00:44 I see this list but I cant find the type of esolang of this problem 12:12:00 -!- mauris has joined. 12:12:02 * int-e was looking for esolangs with "fish" in their name... but none of them look right. Malbolge would be another guess, but it tends to use non-alphanumeric characters. So I don't know what that is. 12:16:33 Thank you. 12:20:15 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:26:15 -!- adsd has quit (Quit: Page closed). 12:41:06 -!- kline_ has changed nick to kline. 12:46:41 -!- boily has joined. 12:49:01 ^ping 12:49:01 That Pong alone cannot stop! 12:49:12 @massages-loud 12:49:12 You don't have any messages 12:49:42 `wisdom 12:49:44 ​🐐/🐐 <(Unicode goat laments your inability to render Unicode goat.) 12:50:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:50:36 -!- gniourf has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 12:52:07 -!- gniourf has joined. 12:52:25 `wisdom 12:52:27 bird/bird bird bird bird 12:53:10 -!- gniourf has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:19:37 fungot: bird? 13:19:37 int-e: there is no store. crappy does not fnord. he fnord the development just fnord. 13:19:50 ^style 13:19:51 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 13:26:43 `? slist 13:26:44 Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck. 13:52:57 <\oren\> the bird is the word 13:53:56 `? worm 13:53:57 worm? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:54:13 the poor birds will starve 13:55:33 -!- MDeam has changed nick to MDude. 14:02:16 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 14:22:00 -!- Alcest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:24:17 <\oren\> what characters should I add today 14:25:12 <\oren\> I promised someone I'd add Thai, maybe i'll do that 14:32:01 he\\oren\. do you have 泰? 14:32:44 <\oren\> no. 14:33:16 <\oren\> `unidecode 泰 14:33:17 ​[U+6CF0 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-6CF0] 14:49:38 <\oren\> holy shit hahahahahaha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0YZ1lceoxk 14:51:40 <\oren\> I love russian mad scientists 14:53:45 typical, got stuck on the brand name... 14:56:04 <\oren\> yotube sucks tese days 14:57:13 <\oren\> I usually download the video and themn play it 14:58:30 probably not youtube's fault 14:59:06 (unless you think of not paying extortion money as a fault) 14:59:26 <\oren\> no, it is their fault. varius other streaming sites (nsfw ones) seems to stream a lot faster. 15:00:15 <\oren\> the problem is that youtube keeps switching its quality and re-downloading the same part over and over 15:01:28 <\oren\> I think the problem started happening when they stopped using flash 15:03:13 <\oren\> basically, it downloads 0:00-0:40 at 480p, then stops, downloads 0:30-0:60 at 360p, then stops, upgrades to 720 and redownloads 15:04:09 <\oren\> and sometimes it completely freezes until I refresh the page 15:04:47 hmm, great fun 15:04:57 <\oren\> so the only solution I've found is to use vlc or another program to download and play the whole thing at one quality 15:06:40 <\oren\> which chooses the highest quality, and streams fast ANYWAY, so it is obviously their clint software throttling it and fucking it up 15:08:10 sorry, but nothing is ever obvious. 15:08:48 <\oren\> well tbf it could also be firefox's terrible JS interpreter 15:09:21 <\oren\> but regardless the prblem is happening at my end, not the server 15:09:29 <\oren\> or my net connection 15:15:35 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 15:16:11 are there voodoo dolls for programs? can you tickle a fungot figurine? 15:16:11 boily: i know of, but i heard a discussion on commenting source code. 15:16:30 -!- augur has joined. 15:18:17 -!- augur has quit (Client Quit). 15:18:31 -!- augur has joined. 15:21:34 1222 characters so far, lots of currency characters. 15:22:01 frankly speaking they are really hard to fit in 8x16 box 15:22:37 <\oren\> sometimes you have to wdge 15:22:59 but I'm quite proud that I've managed to make U+20B7 good 15:23:35 `unicode U+20B7 15:23:35 ​₷ 15:23:43 `unidecode U+20B7 15:23:44 ​[U+0055 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U] [U+002B PLUS SIGN] [U+0032 DIGIT TWO] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO] [U+0042 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER B] [U+0037 DIGIT SEVEN] 15:23:49 `? wdge 15:23:50 wdge? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:24:06 \oren\: I've finally implemented 2:1 and 1:2 slopes, they are so useful for complex characters 15:24:11 `` unidecode $(unicode U+20B7) 15:24:12 ​[U+20B7 SPESMILO SIGN] 15:24:20 e.g. /d or b\ 15:25:39 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:26:35 * gamemanj gets a pin and stabs a figurine marked "the magical force that allows LLVM to change their IR for seemingly random reasons, in particular adding redundant type annotations" 15:27:45 (for example: getelementptr inbounds %struct.room, %struct.room* %this, i32 0, i32 0) 15:27:58 (specifically the first %struct.room) 15:29:57 -!- jaboja has joined. 15:31:18 <\oren\> `run wget 'http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c' 15:31:34 ​--2015-11-28 15:30:45-- http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... Failed to connect to socket 2. \ connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... No data received. \ Retrying. \ \ --2015-11-28 15:30:46-- (try: 2) http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... Failed to connect to socket 2. 15:31:35 chirurgical voodoo dolling, with titanium plated precision tools. 15:32:05 <\oren\> `run wget 'http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c' 15:32:09 \oren\: oh, yay, UTF-8! 15:32:21 ​--2015-11-28 15:31:32-- http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... Failed to connect to socket 2. \ connected. \ Proxy request sent, awaiting response... No data received. \ Retrying. \ \ --2015-11-28 15:31:34-- (try: 2) http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c \ Connecting to 127.0.0.1:3128... Failed to connect to socket 2. 15:32:24 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.htm 15:33:20 <\oren\> `help 15:33:20 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 15:33:40 <\oren\> `fetch http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c 15:33:41 2015-11-28 15:33:07 URL:http://www.orenwatson.be/u8tbl.c [987/987] -> "u8tbl.c" [1] 15:33:49 Uh, why on earth did HackEgo go through a proxy... 15:34:01 <\oren\> `cc u8tbl.c -o u8tbl 15:34:04 :1:6: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘.’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 15:35:17 <\oren\> `run cc u8tbl.c -o u8tbl 15:35:18 :1:6: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘.’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 15:35:55 <\oren\> `` head -n 2 u8tbl.c 15:35:56 ​#include "stdio.h" \ #include "stdlib.h" 15:36:58 <\oren\> いったい何だ悪い?!? 15:37:34 <\oren\> `` cc u8tbl.c -o u8tbl 15:37:35 :1:6: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘.’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 15:38:15 <\oren\> `` cc -Wall u8tbl.c -o u8tbl 15:38:16 :1:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘-’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 15:38:37 hmm 15:38:40 <\oren\> `` gcc u8tbl.c -o u8tbl 15:38:45 No output. 15:38:53 well, that's just weird 15:39:00 why would gcc make any difference 15:39:02 <\oren\> oh, cc isn't a C compiler? WTFFFFFFF 15:39:15 well, cc looks like a c compiler 15:39:15 <\oren\> `` ls cc 15:39:16 ls: cannot access cc: No such file or directory 15:39:19 it's just not a sane c compiler 15:39:24 `` cc --help 15:39:25 :1:1: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘--’ token \ compilation terminated due to -Wfatal-errors. 15:39:27 WTF 15:39:53 <\oren\> `` cc 'int main(){printf("hello world");}' 15:39:54 hello world 15:39:55 `` cc void main() {puts("What the fuck");} 15:39:55 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `cc void main() {puts("What the fuck");}' 15:40:01 <\oren\> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 15:40:10 `` cc 'void main() {puts("What the fuck");}' 15:40:11 What the fuck 15:40:46 <\oren\> `` u8tbl 0x20b7 0x20b7 15:40:46 bash: u8tbl: command not found 15:40:48 `` cc 'void main() {puts("Hey, my name`s HackEgo, and you`re listening to `What the Fuck`.");usleep(100000);puts("Our contestants today...");}' 15:40:49 Hey, my name`s HackEgo, and you`re listening to `What the Fuck`. \ Our contestants today... 15:40:57 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x20b7 0x20b7 15:40:57 ​₷ 15:41:04 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x2000 0x20b7 15:41:05 ​           ​‌‍‎‏ \ ‐‑‒–—―‖‗‘’‚‛“”„‟ \ †‡•‣․‥…‧

‪‫‬‭‮  \ ‰‱′″‴‵‶‷‸‹›※‼‽‾‿ \ ⁀⁁⁂⁃⁄⁅⁆⁇⁈⁉⁊⁋⁌⁍⁎⁏ \ ⁐⁑⁒⁓⁔⁕⁖⁗⁘⁙⁚⁛⁜⁝⁞  \ ⁠⁡⁢⁣⁤⁥⁦⁧⁨⁩ 15:41:28 `` ./u8tbl 0x20 0x50 15:41:29 ​ !"#$%&'()*+,-./ \ 0123456789:;<=>? \ @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO \ P 15:41:34 well, now we know that works 15:41:46 `` ./u8tbl 0x20 0x30 15:41:47 ​ !"#$%&'()*+,-./ \ 0 15:41:50 `` ./u8tbl 0x30 0x40 15:41:51 0123456789:;<=>? \ @ 15:41:52 <\oren\> yah, it's part of my toolsuite for making my font 15:41:58 `` ./u8tbl 0x30 0x38 15:41:59 012345678 15:42:19 `` ./u8tbl 0x34 0x34 0x32 0x32 15:42:19 4 15:42:20 :( 15:42:25 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 32 48 15:42:26 ​ !"#$%&'()*+,-./ \ 0 15:42:55 once upon a time there was a bot which might understand 42 15:43:01 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0100 0107 15:43:01 ​@ABCDEFG 15:43:49 <\oren\> strtol with 0,0 has useful beehiveior 15:44:29 <\oren\> it uses prefix 0x for hex and 0 for octal 15:45:19 Sounds like strtol is great for converting strings to numbers and back. 15:45:51 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0100 0127 15:45:52 ​@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO \ PQRSTUVW 15:46:03 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0200 0227 15:46:04 ​‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ \ ‘’“”•–— 15:46:21 <\oren\> ooooo 15:46:53 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0xFF00 0xFF37 15:46:54 ​＀!"#$%&'()*+,-./ \ 0123456789:;<=>? \ @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO \ PQRSTUVW 15:47:36 <\oren\> I like how wide ascii is at ascii +_ 0xff00 15:49:44 That's probably intentional... 15:49:57 There's all sorts of "coincidences" like that in charsets 15:50:10 `` ./u8tbl 0x30 0x3A 15:50:11 0123456789: 15:50:25 magic 15:50:36 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 15:51:16 also: space is at 0x20, the capital letters start at 0x41 or something... 15:51:51 and that's just ASCII. 15:54:42 -!- Wallacoloo has left. 15:56:25 Hurray for technology? "Continuous and lengthy discussions, technical meetings and negotiations eventually led us to the point where we were allowed to run our own node.js-server on the inflight servers of the aircraft." 15:56:38 Where is this? 15:56:44 <\oren\> FUUUUUUUUCKCKCCKCKCKCKCKC 15:57:08 And why the fuck did it require "Continuous and length discussions, technical meetings and negotiations"? 15:57:15 <\oren\> I'm gonna be in a fiery crash because some asshole wanted to write things in JS?!!? 15:57:18 http://reaktor.com/blog/aircraft-customer-experience-on-a-new-level/ 15:57:25 It sounds as if an aircraft is a war zone or something 15:57:45 They want us to think that it's just the entertainment system... 15:58:54 Separation of concerns on something like this would dictate they would be separate systems. 15:59:23 you'd think so 15:59:41 Why do you say that... 15:59:49 Are you saying they aren't? 16:00:03 I'm not sure what to make of this story http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-say-banned-researcher-commandeered-plane/ 16:00:15 if they were really separate networks then that shouldn't be possible. 16:00:23 <\oren\> well remem ber that truck that got hacked thru the entertainment system? 16:02:41 Well, even if they're on the same network, it doesn't matter as long as the actual flight control systems are still locked up normally. 16:03:06 As long as flight control hasn't been taken over by Node.JS, everything's relatively fine. 16:03:19 not true, once you can flood the network with meaningless packets 16:03:23 They shouldn't be on the same network, but if they are, that's a separate (but still bad) issue 16:03:47 -!- mauris_ has joined. 16:03:58 <\oren\> besides last time I checked JS didn't have an error handling system capable of handling OOM gracefully 16:04:20 I don't think that Node.JS would get put into the flight control systems. 16:05:49 <\oren\> even if it doesn't, it could bring the sytem to a crawl by taking up all memory 16:06:31 If it's not on the same machine, that doesn't matter. 16:07:07 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:09:30 <\oren\> then we'd better hope for sane engineers who don't let some JS jockeys onto the main flight computers 16:10:43 \oren\: well, to be fair, many dynamic allocation schemes cannot easily deal with OOM. 16:12:24 <\oren\> but JS is particularly prone to filling all memory with "reachable" variables 16:12:44 <\oren\> at least in my experience 16:13:18 probably every dynamic language has the same characteristic 16:15:49 <\oren\> hmm, maybe any dynamic language with global-by-default variables, lambdas that carry the context in which they were defined, and a library using large trees of objects as its main principle 16:18:16 <\oren\> it becomes very easy to silently leak megabytes 16:27:38 Do the lambdas carry all the context in which they were defined, or just the variables they use? 16:28:15 Because if they carry all the context in which they were defined, there is something seriously wrong with whoever had that idea. 16:29:26 Though, technically without finalizers there's no way to verify if it carries it or not... so if it's supposed to keep all the context, you can ignore that and only keep the things with finalizers and what the lambda uses. 16:29:54 Still sounds like a mess though. 16:34:52 javascript has an eval function... 16:36:45 * gamemanj moves far enough away from the screen that they can't tell the difference between some letters 16:37:01 evil function? 16:37:32 -!- Alcest has joined. 16:37:41 :) 16:45:22 ohi 16:45:28 \oren\: hello, 16:47:19 \oren\: in your font, the cyrillic capital letters "ЅІЈ" look too much like the latin letters. I think you should fix that. 16:47:46 gamemanj closures in javascript carry all their context 16:48:31 \oren\: not all of them are exactly the same, but they're quite confusing 16:49:48 \oren\: I see you're using tricky different letter forms to distinguish the cyrillic letters from the latin, and lower height to distinguish the greek capitals from the latin 16:50:13 I've only implemented the basic greek letters without accents, but I use small dots in the confusable ones. 16:50:34 Just like how I use dots in some accented letters that would otherwise be too similar to each other 16:51:39 b_jonas: is there any general solution? for that matters, I have three copies of latin A -- greek Alpha -- cyrillic A which are identical right now. 16:51:40 quintopia: All? Including what isn't used...? *notes down "Javascript is nuts"* 16:51:54 it was very hard to make alternative glyphs for me 16:53:09 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 16:53:56 lifthrasiir: "A" isn't really the worst because it's easy to make very different versions of it: different shaped tops or different height for the bar 16:54:15 lifthrasiir: but try to make lots of different "T" or "O" that look nice 16:54:32 yeah, that is painful. 16:54:52 lifthrasiir: anyway, I think it's less of a problem if I confuse the greek with the cyrillic, because I rarely read text in those, the main point is to notice accidental non-latin characters among latin text 16:55:37 lifthrasiir: but cyrillic is different because there are way more similar letters to latin in first place, even in lower case 16:55:43 and it's hard to do anything with the lower case letters 16:55:55 gamemanj, sort of. rather, they are considered to maintain exactly what scope they are declared in. which means at least any reference uses must be maintained as reachable 16:56:21 lifthrasiir: one thing you could try to do is to make the cyrillic have thin lines, but that could look ugly 16:56:32 I don't like to do so. 16:56:32 or maybe thick horizontal lines, I dunno 16:56:56 I haven't really tried to implement them yet 16:57:21 I have a very few latin and punctuation characters on my near term todo, but not cyrillic 16:58:14 lifthrasiir: where's your font these days? I think you saw some page that didn't work for me 16:58:24 s/saw/showed/ 16:59:15 b_jonas: http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample should be stable for now. 17:00:02 um, I don't see anything. is that trying to use some fancy modern javascript thingy? 17:00:16 do you see "1237 characters, 578 intermediate glyphs so far"? 17:00:21 yes, I see that 17:00:26 the glyphs are rendered via SVG 17:00:31 and an input box for "sample text" 17:00:33 oh, SVG 17:00:58 let me see, is it a static SVG? if so, I could render that separately 17:00:59 Describing what it is time!: "Techno-style looking glyphs, not out-of-place in a cyberpunk movie." 17:01:10 or is there a PDF or postscript version of the page? 17:01:18 b_jonas: it lacks xmlns but it is not hard to add them. 17:01:34 "Including braille glyphs in case you want to add useless dot patterns." 17:01:37 sadly, not yet. probably I need to make an image out of them later. 17:01:53 gamemanj: good way to boost the number of supported glyphs 17:01:53 lifthrasiir: pdf would be the most convenient I think 17:02:04 but sure, static images can't hurt too as a quick preview 17:02:16 but I can't complain, I still haven't made a good page demonstrating my font either 17:02:28 I really need to make an OTF file out of that. 17:02:46 lifthrasiir: I'm pretty sure the braille glyphs have a grand total of two uses, ever: 17:02:49 1. Looking cool 17:02:53 2. Braille 17:02:58 3. bitmap 17:03:08 see: 1 17:03:12 :p 17:03:33 hmm, a system to render bitmaps into UTF-8 text 17:03:44 for use in forum signatures 17:03:57 Have they gotten the reverse eight point braille (with two dots above the grid of six) into unicode yet? 17:16:49 <\oren\> b_jonas: I fixed ЅІЈ SIJ 17:18:22 \oren\: ok 17:20:44 <\oren\> right now I'm adding Thai 17:22:30 heh 17:23:22 \oren\: will you do APL symbols? I can get you a list if you need. there's a hundred or two (though you already have a few that aren't only APL symbols) and they're generally easy to draw. 17:23:46 (few hundred total, not used all together in any one APL dialect) 17:24:18 oh, although I see you already have some of them 17:25:17 hmm, you seem to have a lot of them, 17:25:41 but there's a few I can't find by eye. let me check how they're supposed to be encoded 17:26:15 oh, there they are 17:26:24 you might actually have all 17:27:04 \oren\: could you please add U+1F414? 17:27:31 pine, upside down pine, tee with small circle, bottom with small circle were the ones I didn't see 17:27:45 now where's the quad with prime 17:27:51 oh there it is next to the lightbulb 17:28:12 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x1f414 0x1f414 17:28:13 ​🐔 17:28:29 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x1f414 0x1f420 17:28:30 ​🐔🐕🐖🐗🐘🐙🐚🐛🐜🐝🐞🐟 \ 🐠 17:32:29 <\oren\> I'll do the emoji eventually, but only as wide characters 17:34:17 \oren\: meh, you already have the basic cp437 smiling face, you don't need more than that 17:37:37 <\oren\> I'm done Thai, is that enought for this batch or should I add more 17:38:16 <\oren\> maybe I'll add more kyoiku kanji 17:39:58 Yay for UTF-8! Sadly, not in an esoteric language: http://pastebin.com/jjkR9ErN 17:50:33 -!- MC8_ has changed nick to MC8. 17:59:06 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:03:23 \oren\: to which extent do you plan supporting indic scripts? 18:04:39 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:05:44 <\oren\> boily: to whatever extent is possible in 9x16 pixels? 18:05:47 <\oren\> I guess? 18:08:52 <\oren\> When I reach 6000 characters I'll update the version number 18:09:26 <\oren\> right now it's 8 as you can see in ΍ 18:09:28 I meant specifically consonant conjuncts. they are many and irregular. 18:10:13 of course there's the physical limit of 2 ** (9 * 16) pixel combinations. 18:10:26 > 2 ^ (9 * 16) 18:10:27 22300745198530623141535718272648361505980416 18:12:13 <\oren\> meh, whatever, I draw each code point separately 18:12:19 > 2 ^ (4 * 4) 18:12:21 65536 18:13:03 hmm, that's small enough that it might be feasible to send random combinations to people and ask them what letter it looks like or "indeterminate" 18:13:42 the only trouble is that 4x4 is an awfully small font 18:13:52 <\oren\> you need one pixel more for space between letters 18:14:07 <\oren\> 4x4 is effectively 3x3 18:14:10 space is blank 18:14:59 <\oren\> > 2 ^ (8 * 15) 18:15:00 1329227995784915872903807060280344576 18:15:36 \oren\: maybe instead of adding characters, you should try to make different fonts? 18:15:53 4x4 would be the size of the glyphs, 5x5 would be "including spacing" 18:16:03 <\oren\> b_jonas: one day, I'll add the math letters 18:16:23 <\oren\> ok 18:17:45 Generally the bitmap size is specified "without spacing"... 18:17:47 And I should add the 8+12+1+4 characters I have in my short-term todo 18:18:13 (8 line drawing or similar, 12 latin letters, 1 misc, 4 arrows with base) 18:20:58 -!- AvinashSnl has joined. 18:21:08 And I should make a demonstration page where I show sample texts and also a table of all characters as bitmap images 18:21:09 -!- AvinashSnl has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:21:48 How well supported are elements in HTML these days? Are there still browsers that don't know them? 18:22:35 I mean among browsers that can render images. 18:22:54 From tags 18:24:03 \oren\: by the way, are you planning to add cirth? 18:24:18 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:24:41 I'm not sure how easy it is to fit them in this grid 18:25:03 But probably not harder than what you've already managed with some scripts. 18:27:24 <\oren\> hmm, *googling cirth* 18:28:04 \oren\: cirth is one of the two constructed scripts by Tolkien himself 18:28:15 used in the LotR universe 18:28:44 <\oren\> Apparently it's considered to be merges with the Runic block. 18:28:50 Cirth are runes, used for carving into stone, whereas the other script, tengwa, is for writing with a pen or similar. 18:29:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:29:31 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x16f1 0x16f43 18:29:31 ​ᛱᛲᛳᛴ 18:29:35 i get these blocks with a dynamic ip http://i.imgur.com/7wDIbPo.png 18:29:47 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x16f1 0x163 18:29:48 No output. 18:29:51 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x16f1 0x16f3 18:29:52 ​ᛱᛲᛳ 18:30:07 Why would it be merged? Futhark runes (which have tons of variants), cirth, and old Hungarian runes are three totally non-overlapping set of runes. 18:31:02 Although cirth does look similar to futhark, in the way that Lat-Cyr-Greek looks similar to Georgian and Armenian scripts in its features and typography, but they are three non-overlapping sets. 18:31:38 Lat-Cyr-Greek is at least three related scripts which have letters related in origin, even if they are distinct scripts now 18:31:57 <\oren\> those three runes I'm missign were added baecause they are in cirth but not futhark 18:32:09 <\oren\> in unicode 7.0 18:33:03 It consists of old Phoenician, Greek, Latin, the two Cyrillics, Coptic, and more, in a way that it's not entirely clear how to count the number of scripts, and the number changes by which decade you ask. 18:33:11 But it's definitely at least three scripts. 18:34:21 Mind you, they also share some of the origins with futhark, braille, hebrew, and arabic, because phoenician and greek and latin are so popular that it influenced everyone. 18:34:52 <\oren\> hebrew is a direct descendant of phonician 18:34:53 But hebrew and arabic and braille have typography very different from them. 18:35:04 \oren\: yes, that is very likelyi 18:35:22 \oren\: the alphabetic order and the names of letters are certainly related, and probably the letter shapes too. 18:36:04 <\oren\> Well anyway they already rejected klingon so... 18:36:31 -!- meme1 has joined. 18:36:38 \oren\: they rejected tengwa once too. they did add it later 18:37:06 b_jonas: they've added tengwar in unicode? 18:37:12 \oren\: although I for one think that adding reverse eight point braille would be more useful, and it's EASY because there's a definite and closed list of characters, unlike in many scripts. 18:37:17 nortti: iirc they have 18:37:58 but maybe I remember wrong 18:38:07 I'm only aware of the PUA one 18:38:15 let me look this up 18:38:19 I might have misremembered 18:38:35 seems there is a range reserved for them in unicode, but no encoding yet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengwar#Unicode 18:38:50 However, the Klingon script being rejected is I think a good decision. 18:39:16 Very few people use the Klingon script, and most of the people who speak klingon use the latin script encoding instead, so it's basically reserved for ceremonial use. 18:39:39 Hmm, you guys are right, it seems tengwa and cirth aren't in unicode yet. 18:40:49 Mind you, for some strange reason they've added the Phaistos Disc symbols, which is totally idiotic, given that they're used on that one disk and nowhere else, and we don't even know which pairs are supposed to be the same symbol or different ones. 18:41:10 -!- meme1 has left. 18:41:18 Those kinds of scripts (if it is even a script) like the Voynich manuscript script shouldn't be added until we find out more about how it's used. 18:41:59 hmm, does unicode even have a circular text flow marker... 18:42:27 int-e: does it even have a boustrophedon text flow marker? 18:43:19 <\oren\> I'm looking at the GNU unifont right now, and I see a problem with their crowd-sourced approach in that characters which are related are in inconsistent styles 18:44:35 b_jonas: I've put an image render, http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample.png 18:44:52 hope it helps 18:45:14 <\oren\> hmm you i and j have no tittles 18:45:28 whoops 18:45:33 still has a problem with subglyphs 18:45:35 wait a min... 18:46:47 <\oren\> also, why have you drawn ▂▃▄▅▆▇█▉▊▋▌▍▎▏▐░▒▓ as wide 18:46:50 <\oren\> ? 18:47:39 to be consistent with other block drawings 18:48:20 okay, subglyphs should render fine 18:48:33 If you need to use those scripts in a text that is otherwise Unicode, you could use CSUR encoding 18:48:49 <\oren\> there we go 18:50:23 But I don't know of any extension to Unicode that has boustrophedon marker and so on 18:50:37 You may make up your own encoding if needed, whether or not it is an extension of Unicode 18:51:52 * int-e doesn't like that б. 18:53:15 -!- relrod_ has changed nick to relrod. 18:56:45 <\oren\> `unidecode б 18:56:46 ​[U+0431 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BE] 18:57:39 I don't know enough Cyrillic to determine which glyph is better looking 18:57:39 <\oren\> hmm that one's tall, when it's not supposed to be. fixing 18:57:55 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: he meant in my font I think 18:58:06 any suggestion would be appreciated (of course, not every suggestion is accepted) 18:58:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:58:51 <\oren\> hmm wit, maybe it is supposed to be tall 18:59:58 <\oren\> int-e: what did you mean? 19:00:27 So, if you are trying to include Klingon and Tengwar and Cirth scripts in a otherwise Unicode font, you could use CSUR extensions to encode them 19:00:31 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: well your б isn't tall 19:02:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:02:54 <\oren\> ok, I added thai and 必念急息悲想意愛感 19:03:35 Scripts should be in unicode only if we know enough about it to write new texts with it. 19:03:49 <\oren\> you can now fall in 愛 with my font 19:04:25 Or perhaps exceptions could be made if it's used enough in a well-studied corpus, like the Bible. 19:04:34 `? bird 19:04:36 bird bird bird bird 19:04:43 `culprits wisdom/bird 19:04:45 int-e ais523 oerjan elliott Bike FreeFull Phantom_Hoover nortti Phantom_Hoover 19:04:48 lifthrasiir: thanks 19:04:51 wat 19:05:11 lifthrasiir: wait, that'sa bitmap font. why would you need SVG for it? 19:05:18 `` hg log wisdom/bird | grep ummary 19:05:19 summary: revert \ summary: for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ summary: learn bird bird bird bird \ summary: learn bird is a dinosaur \ summary: learn bird bird bird bird 19:05:40 `` hg log wisdom/bird | grep ummary | tac 19:05:41 summary: learn bird bird bird bird \ summary: learn bird is a dinosaur \ summary: learn bird bird bird bird \ summary: for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ summary: revert 19:05:43 b_jonas: it's hybrid bitmap-vector font, the font consists of pixels that have vector counterparts 19:06:03 ok if Phantom_Hoover thinks so it must be correct. 19:06:14 Maybe running that command back then was a mistake 19:07:01 i dont make mistakes 19:07:01 b_jonas: the sample.html looks like this: http://cosmic.mearie.org/img/20151129-unison-sample.png 19:07:49 lifthrasiir: do you have a pcf version of this? or perhaps an opentype font version? 19:07:55 Phantom_Hoover: I meant my command 19:08:00 planned but haven't tried. 19:08:08 OTF is my primary goal 19:08:13 oh nice, so there's a big vector version 19:08:27 lifthrasiir: pcf is easy to create. I can help in that. OTF is difficult. 19:08:57 this seems to have a nice clean look, I like it 19:09:41 lifthrasiir: in http://cosmic.mearie.org/2015/11/font/sample.png, what does it mean when a hex number heading on the left is gray? 19:09:58 <\oren\> this is certainly a better 8x16 font than GNU unifont 19:10:15 since it's a dual-width font (or triple- or quadruple- for some glyphs, haven't seriously decided on that though) 19:10:24 some rows have less than 32 characters there 19:10:44 grayed U+xxxx are continuations for prior rows 19:11:12 I see. So it's not strictly usable as a terminal font. This is an interesting concept. 19:12:12 is the dual-width font problematic for terminals? I thought it is necessary for CJK fonts anyway. 19:12:50 <\oren\> terminals usually only allow CJK characters to be wide 19:12:51 lifthrasiir: yes, but terminals assume that the character width are the usual, which is 1 cell for most of the latin letters and arrows 19:13:25 lifthrasiir: there's a sort of informal "standard" width for each character, 0 or 1 or 2, which is not really regulated by unicode, 19:13:48 lifthrasiir: and this is important because the programs that use the terminal have to know how many cells the text they print takes up 19:13:53 hmm, they are technically Ambiguous in the East Asian Width standard (a part of Unicode) 19:14:18 but if some terminal doesn't like them I may try to adjust that 19:14:19 so there's a libc call to tell the width of a character, and some support in curses-like libraries for it. 19:14:48 lifthrasiir: also, if your left arrow and right arrow characters are double width, then suddenly supposedly monospaced APL or smalltalk code will look very strange indeed 19:15:01 wcwidth, right? probably I should look at that. 19:15:27 (some variant of) smalltalk uses the left arrow as the assingment operator, this comes from back when ascii was more flexible and _ was a left arrow and ^ an up arrow 19:16:43 <\oren\> my terminal has a switch for ambiguous as wide vs narror 19:16:56 my experience was that there are some applications expecting narrow arrows and some other applications expecting wide arrows 19:17:20 lifthrasiir: yes, wcwidth. it gives -1 for some non-printable characters (control characters like line feed), 0 for combining accents and similar zero width stuff, 1 for western characters and lots of others, and 2 for kanji and stuff like that. 19:17:24 <\oren\> yeah. typically japanese made prgrams want wide 19:17:45 <\oren\> like w3m 19:17:59 hmm 19:18:15 and aren't there at least separate code points representing wide left arrow, up arrow, and right arrow? 19:18:29 narrow arrows plus custom kerning with other wide characters may work... 19:18:31 I think not 19:18:41 I dunno then 19:18:59 I don't use kanjis, and my font only has characters that are 1 cell wide 19:19:02 well, almst 19:19:19 technically it has glyphs for control characters, unused in terminals. 19:19:49 http://wiki.dequis.org/notes/emoji/ heh, Linux's wcwidth is not up-to-date til very recent so you cannot use (wide) Emoji correctly 19:19:49 um, unused in most terminals. 19:20:15 lifthrasiir: well sure, that's because these days it's VERY difficult to upgrade libc, because it's hard to build. 19:20:31 wcwidth is a kind of mistake I claim :p 19:21:13 lifthrasiir: I don't think so. NOT having the widths specified by unicode is a mistake. If it was specified, then unicode support libraries like ICU would give the width, and there was a clear standard made up sanely. 19:21:16 <\oren\> When making a terminal program usually just check for specific ranges and everything else is narrow 19:21:25 Well, you know, mostly sanely. Because unicode and committees and stuff. 19:21:42 b_jonas: as I've said, there *is* a standard (UAX #11). 19:21:54 lifthrasiir: is there? what's this UAX #11 ? 19:21:55 I think it would be better to make it the bit of the character code to specify the width for use with fixpitch display 19:22:00 http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr11/ 19:22:12 Unicode doesn't do that, so you have to not use Unicode in the terminal. 19:22:27 lifthrasiir: does that give a width of each unicode character? 19:22:36 some specifications updates more quickly than the core Unicode standard (the Book, til it went digital only) so they are provided as a TR 19:22:41 and is there an interface in ICU to access this? 19:23:29 b_jonas: there are seven classes and I think there is. 19:24:19 the most problematic class is A (Ambiguous) which is used in both EA context and non-EA context and its width may depend on the usage 19:24:29 lifthrasiir: that sounds good. 19:24:32 arrows are, for example, Ambiguous 19:24:36 I see 19:25:44 Well, that's one of several ambiguities that have to be resolved with font variants and formatting to access them, I presume. Like the two different cyrillic script styles (which IMO should have been two different non-overlapping scripts in first place, but got messed up for political reasons, and too late to change now), or the capital I stuff, or some ligatures in some scripts. 19:26:00 \ and too late to change now), or the capital I stuff, or some ligatures in some scripts. 19:26:42 <\oren\> Ah: the ranges I used were 0x2e80,0xA63f, 0xac00,0xd7ff, 0xf900,0xfaff, 0xff00,0xff60, 0xffe0,0xffe7 19:26:56 <\oren\> everything else narrow 19:27:07 \oren\: hehe, "0xA63f" with mixed case 19:27:08 wow 19:27:24 for ligatures my preference is to make it a concatenation of individual glyphs, but that was a bit ugly in Roman numerals 19:27:36 also, wcwidth(0x2190) is (as I've expected) -1 (ambiguous) :) 19:27:48 so that's really up to the terminal softwares 19:27:51 lifthrasiir: the roman numerals are compatibility characters anyway, like the angstrom signs, and shouldn't be used in new texts. 19:27:57 so I don't care about them. 19:28:40 but if it messes up with terminals (e.g. failed to detect mostly-dual-width fonts) it is a problem 19:29:04 <\oren\> unsigned widthranges[] = {0x2e80,0xA63f, 0xac00,0xd7ff, 0xf900,0xfaff, 0xff00,0xff60, 0xffe0,0xffe7}; 19:29:11 lifthrasiir: yes, and with the latin letters, I do care about them 19:29:15 s/them/that/ 19:29:34 I see you have support for some cyrillic and greek letters 19:30:16 but fewer latin letters so far than what I have in my font 19:30:40 and no őŐűŰ in particular 19:30:59 I've worked on cyrillic and greek letters first to check problems from multiple different (but similar) scripts 19:31:09 lifthrasiir: sure, makes sense 19:31:32 haven't thoroughly drawn all characters :) 19:31:36 and it's not like the font is final anyway. I haven't started with all characters ready either, I've added them in many passes, and occasionally corrected some existing characters 19:32:18 I did so, combining characters are so painful to get it right 19:32:44 <\oren\> oh, the extra-cute o and u are from ungarian, I see 19:32:53 I and T are common offenders 19:33:06 (due to their even widths) 19:33:12 <\oren\> s/ungar/hungar/ 19:33:24 I feel hungar 19:33:50 This one seems already quite usable to render text in some languages, and looks nice and clean. 19:34:53 <\oren\> yeah, what timeframe do we have to a bdf or ttf version? 19:35:24 lifthrasiir: are you planning to eventually add more latin letters, and the lowercase serbian letters? 19:35:47 b_jonas: definitely! 19:36:00 good 19:36:03 -!- quintopia has set topic: The international hub for esoteric fontface design and deployment. | /ɛ̃ˈglɪʃ spɛˈliŋ ʀɘfɔʀm/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/. 19:36:57 also esoteric font development tool 19:37:14 (aka vim) 19:37:34 lifthrasiir: how about more latin-cyrillic-greek punctuation, such as “„”‘’»« quotation marks, … ellipsis, flipped question mark and flipped exclamation mark, etc? 19:37:37 <\oren\> vim is esoteric for developing anything 19:38:28 b_jonas: were the next glyphs to work with (font-punct.txt), delayed by PNG renders 19:38:49 sure 19:39:35 lifthrasiir: your ~ tilde character looks strange to me, with the sharp tips 19:41:00 vector one? 19:41:09 lifthrasiir: no, the bitmap one 19:41:10 sorry 19:42:11 lifthrasiir: and just like with the latin letters, that – and — are doublewidth will cause problems in a terminal 19:44:21 \oren\: I meant the be should be tall 19:44:55 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EXTRADITED CHICKEN). 19:45:56 b_jonas: currently I have four classes for dash(-like) characters, 5/6/7/8 pxs wide each ("figure dash", "hyphen", "dash", "horiz. line") 19:46:31 I didn't think the em-dash is like horiz. line so I went with a double-wdth dash instead (which is 8+7 px wide) 19:47:02 but may go back to the horizontal line if it causes a problem 19:47:34 lifthrasiir: I don't really know what the best would be here 19:48:31 lifthrasiir: my font and oren's font are fonts for programming or proofreading, so they try to distinguish characters that are similar by giving them a different appearance, especially when one of them is an ascii character or when the two can often occur in the same context. 19:49:01 So in my font, the – has a bump below, the — has two bumps below, and other hyphens are distinguished too in some way. 19:49:24 interesting. I do that to some extent but haven't been perfect so far. 19:49:46 Yes, your font definitely doesn't seem to be doing this, except that it has a slashed zero. 19:50:24 (I did some work to distinguish zero from ø though) 19:50:28 Ø* 19:50:55 A problem like that was the last straw why I started my font: I misread the hexadecimal number 9B as 98 (or backwards, I'm not sure), and got enough of all the problems with confusable characters 19:50:59 so I made a font 19:51:17 a font for iso-8859-2 at first only, but later I expanded it with more characters. 19:51:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:51:26 is there a sample for your font? thinking about that, I haven't seen that yet. 19:51:46 I'll have to make a sample. I was lazy and haven't made one yet, but want to show it often so I should. 19:52:02 I'll report back if I made one. 19:52:12 (don't hold your breath.) 19:52:46 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 19:53:51 another instance of similar and distinguished glyphs: 3, cyrillic ze, cyrillic e 19:54:57 lifthrasiir: yes, or latin T, cyrillic, and greek. this occurs more for capital letters, but still happens with lower case. 19:55:25 lifthrasiir: also punctuation like ,. ;: ({[< but it seems you already drew those well 19:55:35 I was experimenting with making greeks semi-serif, not sure about cyrillics though 19:55:55 lifthrasiir: also I want easy to distinguish accented latin letters, so I draw the accents large and visible, but that can be hard for some letters in a cramped space 19:56:14 double accents are... well. 19:56:24 lifthrasiir: some serifs can help, but for some letters, especially o, it's really hard to do anything 19:56:36 <\oren\> I put the double accents side by side 19:56:38 lifthrasiir: not really double accents. I don't have vietnamese support (yet) 19:57:04 <\oren\> or on top depending on what fits 19:57:04 lifthrasiir: but just accents on some capital letters, esp. ő vs Ő 19:57:19 so I have a small dot in some capital letters to distinguish them from lowercase versions 19:57:43 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:58:02 <\oren\> whereas, my accented capitals use the small-cap versions of the capitals 19:58:41 other possibilities would be to make the accent touch the capital letter, to make the accent touch the descender of the letter above. 19:59:14 <\oren\> I have a lot of touching ascenders and descenders 19:59:15 but even this can be difficult because try to make the accent touch the letter in Ú and make it not look sort of like an Ó 19:59:32 \oren\: yes, but your font is 16 high, mine is 20 high. that's a BIG difference 19:59:40 <\oren\> right 20:00:01 the four pixels height and one or two pixels of width really add a lot to readability 20:01:03 <\oren\> what languag uses Ṏ 20:01:19 <\oren\> I think that's my most cramped accented charatcer 20:01:42 <\oren\> wait maybe it's Ỗ 20:01:56 b_jonas: I've updated the font sample, tried to distinguish three circle-shaped letters. please see if they are really distinguished from each other :) 20:02:10 -!- Welo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:03:41 \oren\: dunno. most double accented characters are used by Vietnamese or in IPA or similar phonetic transcriptions, AFAIK, but perhaps some rarely seen (by me) African or American languages also use such things. 20:03:48 I've adjusted the roundness of circles to give different glyphs. latin is less round, cyrillic is more round, greek is asymmetric and looks like slightly slanted (like scripts). 20:04:21 lifthrasiir: hehe, funny 20:04:47 lifthrasiir: you may want to adjust your lowercase sigma though 20:05:32 oh, indeed 20:05:57 also, this gets worse once you want more crazy characters like the apl big circle, the bullet circle, etc. 20:06:11 there are TONS of characters that are just circles, in various different sizes 20:06:20 <\oren\> I gave up on that with the symbols 20:06:38 \oren\: sure, as long as you make them clearly distinguishable from ASCII it's fine really 20:06:38 <\oren\> some are probably the same 20:06:42 well, we have different colors of books anyway :) 20:07:21 \oren\: and of course APL small circle in the middle must not look the same as APL big circle, because those can both occur in most variants of APL, but that's about all 20:07:43 0 versus O versus o versus everything else is the most important 20:08:03 lifthrasiir: and yes, I think your circles are good now 20:08:32 -!- singingboyo has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:08:45 three different T can also be difficult. *two* are easy, but three is tricky 20:08:56 and three different I 20:09:48 lifthrasiir: anyway, I find your font nice, but the accents are tiny and so sometimes hard to distinguish from each other, but that's difficult to do well in such a small space 20:10:50 I actually have a non-free 16x9 font I used to use for VGA text console, which covers only iso-8859-2. It's non-free because 20:11:16 I don't like that too, but it's already hard to distinguish caron/circumflex from breve/inverted breve 20:11:32 I may revisit if I can 20:12:12 I made it from mixing together three different 16x9 VGA text mode fonts from video cards or bioses, plus a free one or two, plus modified some characters by hand, but there's still enough of one of the original non-free fonts unmodified in there that I can't consider it unambiguously free. 20:14:21 lifthrasiir: and it will get harder when you'll want úüűÚÜŰ or ÈÉÊË mutually distinguishable, because those sets occur together in a single language 20:15:15 -!- singingboyo has joined. 20:15:24 lifthrasiir: wait, do you live in the UK or something? 20:15:37 South Korea (UTC+9). 20:15:40 oh 20:16:20 I mean, you have ẂẀ, and one of those are used by only Welsh I think, and very rarely even there. 20:16:56 It's strange that you have that particular character when you otherwise have slightly fewer latin letters than my font in the current version. 20:17:12 generally I've worked through a list of pre-combined characters 20:17:29 Although now that I look at it, you have A with double grave accent, which is I think even crazier 20:17:50 double grave accent is used only in some really obscured african or american language rarely written or something 20:19:18 I mean, I currently have six pairs of latin letters I want to add, and eventually I might try to add Vietnamese, although frankly that needs a higher character cell or a font with different shapes in this character cell, 20:20:07 but such a strange letter as A with double grave accent is not in my todo list, not even after I add cyrillic or _sane_ looking greek letters 20:20:49 (The greek letters I currently have are basically ugly stubs, barely usable to read short maths formulas people sometimes type in IRC.) 20:21:10 (I added them in a hurry when I added some common maths punctuation.) 20:21:49 wtf 20:23:26 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:24:25 lifthrasiir: I mean, oren has A with double grave, but he has like tons of characters, so it's not so strange there. 20:28:42 phew, re-adjusted almost every greek letter 20:29:41 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 20:31:12 lifthrasiir: the lowercase sigma still doesn't look like a sigma to me. shouldn't it have a bigger hook on the top right? 20:31:20 so that it's more readable 20:31:46 a hook that curves up 20:32:18 how about now? 20:32:38 better, thanks 20:33:10 how about final sigma? seems a bit wide to me. 20:33:57 <\oren\> maybe curvier on top? 20:34:18 <\oren\> hashtag real_letters_have_curves 20:34:31 As for óöőÓÖŐúüűÚÜŰ, the problem is that not only they have to look distinct from each other, but also from õÕûÛ and even ôÔ, 20:36:01 because õÕûÛ often occur instead of őŐűŰ from technical problems when people have only iso-8859-1 or cp1252 accessible or they declare character encoding wrong instead of iso-8859-2 or cp1250, and before that ôÔûÛ could similarly occur with cp437-derived character sets (cp437, cp852, cp850, CWI, etc) 20:39:53 okay, I think double graves are clearly distinguished from graves now 20:40:04 (doubled the width) 20:41:32 lifthrasiir: graves? 20:41:49 graves weren't involved here. That's French, with its eacute and egrave. 20:42:14 ah wait, I didn't work with double acutes 20:42:15 lol 20:42:51 Even today in 2015 (supposedly the Future) I sometimes see the õÕûÛ problem pop up in new webpages, emails, other electronic documents, and printed labels. 20:43:45 <\oren\> kings, nations, come and go, but bugs are forever. 20:45:02 There's also other, more obvious mangled representations, namely utf8 ő mixed into iso88592 á, double-utf8 ő in utf8 text (which occurs when the previous is converted from iso88592 to utf8), question marks, or (this is the funniest) QPqp in this order instead of őŐűŰ, which is from the high byte missing from utf16. 20:45:14 hmm, diaeresis is still not very distinguished from double acute 20:45:30 If you see Q in Hungarian emails, that's why. 20:45:38 And this is only when they get áé right. 20:45:51 There are of course tons of text that get basically everything non-ascii wrong, 20:46:28 including the names of some businesses in bank statements which is horrible because they're already all uppercase and truncated to a small field width. 20:47:26 And, very often, mail or package labels printed in the far east, who assume everyone is like the US postal service who insists on only uppercase ascii letters and digits with no punctuation. 20:47:45 I think now óöőÓÖŐúüűÚÜŰõÕûÛôÔ are distinguished to some extent. 20:48:00 revised diaeresis to make it a bit smaller 20:48:35 (Oh, and yes, à instead of á is also a mistake that occasionally occurs, but mostly on labels rather than digital representation I believe.) 20:48:52 <\oren\> `quote oren dia 20:48:53 No output. 20:48:55 <\oren\> `quote oren 20:48:56 1226) when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? apparently not santa claus Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1227) <{\[oren]|}> zzo38:it will cause problems by 20:48:58 <\oren\> `quote oren 20:48:58 1226) when i was a kid it used to snow on christmas eve. what is this "freezing rain", "sleet" crap? yeah seriously, who is evn in charge anymore? apparently not santa claus Santa Claus is dead by now. \ 1227) <{\[oren]|}> zzo38:it will cause problems by 20:49:10 <\oren\> `quote dia 20:49:11 57) ehird: every set can be well-ordered. corollary: every set s has the same diagram used from famous program talisman with fnord windows to cascade, someone i would never capitalize " i" \ 104) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia 20:49:11 HackEgo: yea which system run fnord to get the variables' values can be denoted by nouns, properties by verbs, and functions aren't macros. 20:49:18 (I think that's when they're using some fancy designer font that has à for italian but not á, or clueless people using pre-cut etiquettes or templates.) 20:49:20 <\oren\> `quote rea 20:49:21 1) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 5) His body should be given to science. He's alive :P Even so. \ 6) what, you mean that wasn't your real name? Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 14) oerjan: are you a man, if there weren 20:49:22 HackEgo: non-optional infinite recursion because you don't use 20:49:48 (And you can't help on those labels by fixing this font.) 20:50:06 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:50:06 b_jonas: http://cosmic.mearie.org/img/20151129-unison-similar.png 20:50:21 I have a process that is labeled "[systray.py] " how do I kill that process? 20:50:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:50:49 lifthrasiir: looks nice, wait a minute I'll look at the bitmap 20:50:52 <\oren\> pkill -9 systray.by 20:50:53 ais523: hello 20:51:01 <\oren\> pkill -9 systray.py 20:51:04 zzo38: kill parent 20:51:05 hi b_jonas 20:51:20 (the render above should be the same to the bitmap rendering, it has a subpixel rendering turned off) 20:51:21 ais523: we're looking at lifthrasiir's hybrid bitmap vector font 20:51:21 b_jonas: I tried that and nothing happened; it won't kill the parent either 20:51:30 16 pixels high I believe 20:52:10 zzo38: what's the status of the parent? 20:52:13 yeah, 8x16 for most cases, 16x16 for CJK and many symbols (I think), may be wider for ligatures etc. 20:52:46 zzo38: does the parent have the same real UID as you, and is it stopped, waiting, running, waiting uninterruptible, defunct? 20:52:55 and possibly what process is it, and it's not init right? 20:53:05 The status of the parent is D+ and the status of the child is Zs 20:53:20 what's D+ 20:53:29 zzo38: check kernel logs 20:54:05 Zs is a zombie and a session leader, but what the hell is D+? 20:54:11 in case it complains about some broken hardware (like unreadable hard disk) which could annoy old kernels a lot (and can still can if you have swap on it, but that's understanible) 20:54:53 ah, Linux seems to have one more code for "uninterruptible sleep" 20:55:05 -!- newsham has joined. 20:55:05 lifthrasiir: so tiny dots close to each other in diaresis, thick everything else? interesting choice, might be a good idea for a 16 high font 20:55:20 um 20:55:38 I mean tiny dots close to each other, thick acutes and grave and double acute, thin circumflex and tilde 20:55:49 I also have two processes owned by "lp" with status code "D" 20:55:49 yeah. it is compressible 20:56:04 zzo38: can you check the kernel logs for suspicious messages? 20:56:10 Which are documents I was trying to print and canceled 20:56:38 zzo38: do you use NFS? and what kernel is this? 20:56:51 It contains things like "INFO: task hp:12678 blocked for more than 120 seconds" and so on in dmesg 20:57:53 lifthrasiir: also tricky, make Đ (Serbian latin) and Ð (Icelandic) distinguishable. They look the same in readable fonts, and don't occur in the same language. 20:59:51 lifthrasiir: and another tricky one is of course making lĺľI|¦ distinguishable from each other, and the other several characters that are just vertical line at least distinguishable from l| 21:00:15 for lĺľI occurs in the same language, and | is ascii 21:00:49 lifthrasiir: oh by the way, doesn't your | look too similar to some line drawing character? 21:01:13 a rare one, mind you, because few people use the thick line drawing characters, but still, | is ascii 21:01:15 oops. 21:01:41 `quote diar 21:01:41 284) esperanto is just spanish with a diarrhea \ 1251) I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 21:01:49 \oren\: hth 21:02:04 I have | broken, but that's because the style of my font is seriously influenced by the style of some 16x9 VGA fonts. 21:02:16 | is still frequently used for making a connected line, so it would be very hard 21:02:46 (for what matters, some glyphs are intentionally made similar to drawing characters to make them compatible) 21:02:58 lifthrasiir: sure, in ascii art, but - also is used that way and so is / and \ 21:03:13 but still 21:03:16 hmm, you are right 21:03:24 I wouldn't shape ascii characters to look good for that 21:03:37 It says "D" is uninterruptible sleep (usually IO), and that + means foreground process group. 21:03:41 ascii art has limitations, and if that's bad, then well you just shouldn't use ascii art 21:04:28 zzo38: does the kernel log also have something about some device or disk or nfs or swap or something? 21:05:09 I mean, if you want better looking terminal arts, then there are line drawing characters for that, both ones you have and ones you don't yet have. 21:05:49 lifthrasiir: oh, some of your ambiguous line drawing characters are narrow and some are wide? funny 21:05:55 Yes, something about "scsi_eh_8" and about "hp" 21:06:01 lifthrasiir: as in, the lines are narrow and the blocks are wide 21:06:13 or are the line ones not ambiguous width? I don't know how this works 21:06:31 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:06:42 zzo38: oh, then I suggest you try to figure out what this scsi_eh_8 thing is 21:06:51 and especially what swap or file system you have on it 21:07:22 b_jonas: not a hard thought, I can change it anytime 21:07:31 The problem though seems to be something related to the printer instead 21:07:44 lifthrasiir: also, I _suggest_ you make B different so you don't fall into the hexadecimal trap that I did 21:07:51 lifthrasiir: B and 8 must look different somehow 21:08:15 How can I get rid of the uninterruptible sleep? 21:08:19 zzo38: possible. how is the printer connected? is it plain parallel port, or through usb, or something else? 21:09:17 zzo38: if the parent process dying doesn't help, then it's hard. getting rid of the broken device (eg. of a floppy with bad sectors) can sometimes help, but sometimes that's just not an option. 21:09:18 USB 21:09:28 zzo38: what if you disconnected the printer? 21:09:33 could that help? 21:09:42 physically disconnecting that is 21:09:59 it might not help if the problem is in the controller or the motherboard, but worth a try 21:10:15 That didn't affect anything 21:10:18 if the controller is an external usb dongle you can pull, then I suggest trying to pull that too. 21:10:38 or is this direct usb to the printer, rather than a parallel or serial port on usb? 21:10:55 Two processes appear that are print jobs that I have canceled, those also say "D" 21:10:57 oh, and wait a minute or two after disconnecting something, of course 21:11:06 waiting can help with a lot. 21:11:12 The printer is directly USB 21:11:17 b_jonas: that would be great, but I'm out of idea. it is hard to make round corners rounder because that actually results in straight lines (in bitmaps). 21:11:41 zzo38: can you check if the machine is perhaps busy swapping, or very busy with cpu work? 21:12:04 It also has "/lib/udev/udev-configure-printer add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb2/2-4/2-4:1.0" with status "Ds" 21:12:05 lifthrasiir: I just put serifs on the left side of B and D and serifs on I 21:12:12 The system load average is currently 605% 21:12:15 b_jonas: reserved for greeks 21:12:31 lifthrasiir: isn't B8 more important than greek? hmm 21:12:35 I don't know then 21:12:38 (It isn't usually this high; when I started having the problem it increased to this high) 21:12:58 -!- vifino has quit (*.net *.split). 21:13:00 anyway, I'll try but don't expect the affirmative :p 21:13:05 lifthrasiir: you could try the middle of the B or of the 8 different shaped if you want 21:13:27 -!- j-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 21:13:32 zzo38: you may have to ask some linux admin guys (if this is linux) 21:13:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:13:57 -!- evalj has joined. 21:14:04 I'm not really an admin, so I might not be able to help, and I don't know enough about linux either. 21:14:04 It is Linux 21:14:33 zzo38: is it an old kernel? 21:14:37 Printers are evil beasts. I recommend defenestrating them as soon as possible. 21:14:55 I was trying to execute the "hp-info" program and that caused the problem 21:14:58 zgrep: there was also something about scsi. that worries me. 21:15:04 Now it has the "D+" status 21:15:21 oh, it's HP too? doubly evil 21:15:28 Dangerit'sabouttoexplode+? 21:15:34 This printer includes a virtual CD-ROM drive (although I am not using that function) 21:15:40 Also, this printer worked fine before! 21:15:48 b_jonas: oh, I seem to have found a solution: narrower 8. 21:16:09 a bit of bitmap tweaking gives a way 21:16:24 lifthrasiir: careful so it doesn't clash with & then 21:16:40 (switching from bdP9 to /\ and back forth) 21:16:52 my & has a completely different shape so I think it's fine 21:17:10 zzo38: whether it's a hardware problem or a software one, you may have to prepare candles, an altar or pentagram with runes, and sacrifical animals soon. 21:17:47 -!- Lord_of_- has quit (Excess Flood). 21:19:25 I doubt that will help 21:19:25 -!- Alcest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:20:14 I think scsi debugging involves sacrificing goats, or something, but if the USB is the problem then that might be different. 21:22:14 I will try to reboot 21:22:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:22:38 yes, rebooting definitely often helps 21:28:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:29:06 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:32:37 -!- Alcest has joined. 21:39:57 okay, enough for today 21:40:23 b_jonas: I have changed some cyrillic glyphs to make it more distinguishable 21:40:52 some remained but I should be able to figure out 21:41:00 lifthrasiir: I'm not looking right now, because I've finally started adding the few missing characters to my font now (I just added Ẽ), 21:41:04 oh. 21:41:13 anyway, thank you for tons of feedbacks 21:41:13 and then I might try to make a demo page, or not, I dunno. 21:41:36 But I'll still be interested in this later, especially if you make BDF and OTF versions and PDF demos. 21:42:27 Can they be compile also into PK format? 21:42:47 zgrep: who is they, and what is PK format? 21:42:54 `cat /dev/urandom 21:42:54 mH,2%y5ml22+w9g'ȍ3AjEk.9D><|eK±{2s_e \ wuNrQg?q&˓_)Iw{:'/3c/.8@ı3cm3Ѯ3s}0jcia>u*˯~\wC!yY[-W"v#R 21:43:23 Not again. 21:43:25 `` openssl rand -base64 80 21:43:25 WARNING: can't open config file: /usr/lib/ssl/openssl.cnf \ 3y/6DAtAqnasX+dZdgziYWGy9r4jJ02S0Sa5jyYTiyaIrMKx4DCk4eRk3LpnG7VM \ Vq0Vt6nj/qPEVw++qbFHjjGrBsYT/j46sWstkl+lQcs= 21:43:46 <\oren\> BDF is possibly the easiest, and I can convert from BDF to ttf using my tools 21:44:01 \oren\: yes, but he has vector characters too 21:44:05 `run echo 'echo $(base64 /dev/urandom | head -c 12)' > bin/mkpasswd 21:44:07 No output. 21:44:10 `run chmod +x bin/mkpasswd 21:44:12 No output. 21:44:13 `mkpasswd 21:44:15 PckvB1MQPGE/ 21:44:26 This command generates passwords that work well. 21:44:28 \oren\: wait, do you convert from bdf to proper _bitmap_ ttf, or to vector-only ttf? 21:44:31 PK format is a packed raster font format used by many DVI reading programs 21:44:45 oh, TeX PK format! 21:44:45 <\oren\> b_jonas: vector 21:44:49 It is meant for printer fonts 21:44:52 Melvar: does your client beep whenever a certain byte is sent? 21:44:53 right 21:45:08 tswett: No, but the terminal window of idris-bot does. 21:45:17 Ah, yes. 21:45:50 <\oren\> it's a vector containing nothing but vertical and horzontal lines 21:46:07 Melvar: my terminals have bell turned to visual bell, and also, my bot escapes non-ascii characters in its debug output. 21:46:20 also escapes control characters, and the escape character 21:46:21 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 21:46:30 Well, it’s visual bell, but I get a notification on my other screen. 21:46:34 I see 21:46:45 well, I suggest escaping some characters in the log 21:46:54 I don’t have control of that. 21:47:07 Melvar: 2>&1 | cat -v 21:50:22 ok, so how the heck is a hook above supposed to look like in the style of my font? 21:50:37 let's try this. it's ugly, but distinguishable I think 21:51:00 I'll have to check it next to all other accents, including the rare ones 21:51:23 You do not necessarily have to optimize the packing since you can use pktogf and gftopk to repack it 21:52:36 Is there a separate character for hook above standalone, not combining, just like how ´ and ˇ are standalone versions of accents? 21:52:59 let me check oren's font 21:54:42 <\oren\> `unidecode ʿ 21:54:43 ​[U+02BF MODIFIER LETTER LEFT HALF RING] 21:55:45 \oren\: do you mean ʾ ? no, that's not it. 21:55:56 that looks similar, but it's not the same thing 21:56:06 <\oren\> hmm I dunno then 21:56:08 accents are a funny thing 21:56:45 wait a minute, maybe the combining version links to it 21:56:54 `man cat 21:56:54 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 21:57:49 \x{1ea3} is a with hook, which decomposes to a\x{309}, 21:59:13 and \x{309} doesn't link to it, even though \x{301} combining acute accent links to \x{b4} acute accent \x{2ca} modifier letter acute accent (whatever is the difference from those), 21:59:19 <\oren\> `` ./u8tbl 0x300 0x309 21:59:19 ​̀́̂̃̄̅̆̇̈̉ 21:59:50 <\oren\> eeeh? 21:59:55 and \x{30c} combining caron links to \x{2c7} caron. 22:00:19 <\oren\> ohthose are combining ones, which I don't have 22:00:20 \oren\: those are all combining letters (0 width, combine with previous character) 22:00:44 <\oren\> tho maybe I oughta add them 22:00:58 \oren\: you mostly render them by precomposing it to the previous character to a unicode character and then rendering the glyph for the precomposed character 22:01:20 \oren\: that sometimes fails with obscure combinations of IPA of which there are so many potential ones they're unencodable 22:01:42 but for any latin script character that actually occurs in languages, there is a precomposed character. 22:01:55 even for the ones used in Chinese transcriptions and the like. 22:02:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:03:32 there are probably also some cyrillic script precomposed ones, like russian i with acute (or grave? what is it that russian uses to mark stress), I dunno. 22:04:27 hmm no, some of those don't seem to exist. strange. 22:04:40 but maybe the ones actually used do exist. 22:04:47 I don't know how russian works. 22:05:10 ok, so where was I? I need a few more vowels with hook. 22:07:24 easy to draw, I just take the letter with circumflex, replace the circumflex with a hook. 22:07:43 that's how I had drawn many accented characters already. 22:08:50 -!- Wallacoloo has left. 22:08:58 this is the hook accent used in Vietnamese by the way 22:09:08 but no, I'm not adding full Vietnamese support. 22:09:22 the hook above, not the other hooks 22:13:09 ok, now for the arrows with base 22:14:29 ↦ 22:15:43 and while I'm there, also ↤ and ↥↧ just in case 22:15:46 they're easy to draw 22:18:43 ok, now let me test the letters with hooks together with other letters that might be similar (though unlikely): 22:25:17 -!- ^v has joined. 22:25:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:27:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:30:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:30:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:31:55 those letter should all look pairwise different, unless I accidentally pasted the same character twice 22:32:37 and yes, some of those letters are obscure and aren't important to have in your font 22:33:07 they look different to me, so I can do an escape cycle 22:34:47 Ok, now I need (a) to collect sample texts, (b) an automatic way to list all characters implemented in my font in a nice table for a sample, (c) an automated way to make bitmap images from these, (d) possibly an automated way to make the -tye variant of the font, which differs in the appearance of the total of two characters and I only update it by hand occasionallyi. 22:35:24 none of this should be too hard. 22:35:59 but that doesn't mean I'll necessarily do it all tonight. 22:36:06 it's getting late. 22:37:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:38:25 <\oren\> if your font is ttf you can use the program I made 22:38:51 <\oren\> 整 22:39:04 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/ttfinvread.htm 22:39:15 \oren\: no, it's bdf, but I can read the pcf version easily 22:39:29 pcf is quite readable, and also has a specs 22:39:40 bdf is a compressed form that can be converted from and to bdf both ways 22:39:52 automatically with the pcftobdf program 22:40:11 (it's called pcftobdf because that's the more useful direction, but it does both) 22:50:03 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 22:52:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:54:35 -!- vifino has joined. 23:20:51 -!- boily has joined. 23:21:51 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:30:38 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:32:46 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:35:32 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:36:01 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 23:36:45 -!- jaboja has joined. 23:38:10 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 23:39:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:39:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:40:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:41:41 @massages-loud 23:41:41 You don't have any messages 23:42:15 -!- DHeadshot_ has joined. 23:43:02 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:44:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:47:32 fungot: tell me something coherent. 23:47:32 boily: someone needs to model a function... it'd be like :) i probably wouldn't even recognize that orig is an alias to proc. 23:47:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:47:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:49:57 fungot: I don't know it and I can't tell you so you will have to tell me all 23:49:57 boily: pretty low i'd say. :p they even give assembly tickets to the winners. they all look the same. a tag check involves one more indirection ( a bit more 23:52:41 -!- DHeadshot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:57:11 fungot 23:57:12 olsner: error in set-cdr!: pair is immutable. nothing varies.