< 1444867211 845237 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444867248 198290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :any verdict on whether it's 7 or 8 yet? < 1444867248 375347 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444867279 593426 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org QUIT :Excess Flood < 1444867288 28178 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 7 or... oh. < 1444867319 766867 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a few minutes, so now it's either... 4 or 5 < 1444867342 296400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant for the entire amount of time taken up < 1444867370 382175 :relrod_!~relrod@104.131.193.156 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444867370 559238 :relrod_!~relrod@104.131.193.156 QUIT :Changing host < 1444867370 559288 :relrod_!~relrod@redhat/relrod JOIN :#esoteric < 1444867377 90653 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444867478 468341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((((t1 -> t2) -> t1) -> t1) -> t2) -> t2 < 1444867478 645353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a (\ b -> b (\ c -> a (\ _ -> c))) < 1444867495 212778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a -> a (\ b -> b (\ c -> a (\ _ -> c))) < 1444867496 318535 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :((((r -> r1) -> r) -> r) -> r1) -> r1 < 1444867543 397903 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to figure out what that function does < 1444867561 844471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, the second question seems a little pointless, I doubt lambdabot would give you a function of the wrong type) < 1444867605 159210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, presumably there are some types it can't handle < 1444867612 532270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (a -> b) -> b -> a < 1444867612 709044 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1444867614 946948 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1444867617 219536 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (a -> b) -> a -> b < 1444867617 396568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a < 1444867621 370301 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \a -> a < 1444867622 592289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :r -> r < 1444867642 968509 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1444867644 641318 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((((a -> b) -> b) -> a) -> b) -> b < 1444867644 818097 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1444867677 745177 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember being frustrated a few years ago about how that function didn't exist. < 1444867681 123969 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember quite why. < 1444867715 382688 :codergeek42!~pgordon@fedora/codergeek42 QUIT :Quit: Ex-Chat < 1444867727 283418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find those left-associative function types really unintuitive < 1444867746 46948 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc "Line and discard salt into sauce." < 1444867755 656039 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reveal a creature card from your hand and discard it onto the battlefield. < 1444867796 136903 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yeah character requests are open < 1444867818 590085 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444867837 943753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hppavilion[1] was wrong, it's been more than 7 < 1444867840 479801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more than 8 < 1444867854 474215 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444868065 451053 :mihow!~mihow@50-206-98-70-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1444868380 485071 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444869150 973594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : now I'm trying to figure out what that function does <-- someone asked for it in an SO question. The type is basically Pierce's law with an extra -> t2 -> t2 tacked on, which is enough to turn from "no term exists" (because not an intuitionistic theorem) to "one does". < 1444869182 789695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, so it's a proof, not a function intended to be useful in programming < 1444869350 721947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1444869357 34939 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((((((a -> b) -> b) -> a) -> b) -> b) -> a) -> a < 1444869357 212110 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a (\ b -> b (\ c -> a (\ _ -> c (\ d -> b (\ _ -> d))))) < 1444869372 87385 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((((a -> b) -> b) -> a) -> a) -> a < 1444869372 301407 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1444869382 620521 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((((((a -> b) -> b) -> a) -> a) -> a) -> b) -> b < 1444869382 797538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1444869391 972822 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: i suspect tacking -> b) -> b) -> a) -> a onto anything containing just a and b makes it provable < 1444869408 730949 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and taking -> a) -> a) -> b) -> b on does not? < 1444869411 927738 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/taking/tacking/ < 1444869418 721291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too of course < 1444869435 991012 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a counterexample right there. < 1444869446 267870 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1444869449 463843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1444869517 585694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1444869564 335522 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1444869904 854191 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn (((a -> a) -> a) -> a) -> a < 1444869905 31226 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- f cannot be realized. < 1444869912 467498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1444869998 648164 :MoALTz__!~no@78.11.179.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444870054 471141 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that even true classically < 1444870078 31394 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good question < 1444870114 906288 :MoALTz_!~no@78.11.179.104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1444870122 581218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \a -> (((a <= a) <= a) <= a) <= (a :: Bool) < 1444870124 258979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 1 test): < 1444870124 436091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False < 1444870149 854263 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check for one Bool? < 1444870163 904277 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :breaking new grounds in laziness < 1444870171 127402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it doesn't take long for lambdabot to try both possibilities < 1444870178 365286 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta check all those Unknowns and FileNotFounds < 1444870181 27321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i didn't use the brain power to check that True was obvious hth < 1444870182 814214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does <= do on bools? < 1444870191 109067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: implication hth < 1444870195 144496 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implication (in the opposite direction of the arrow). < 1444870286 630813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x a -> ((x <= a) <= a) == (x::Bool) < 1444870288 195330 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 8 tests): < 1444870288 372479 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : False True < 1444870296 878485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish < 1444870303 42222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh when a is false. < 1444870369 415540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 tests for two bools. < 1444870387 985716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot is very thorough < 1444870435 921380 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly there are sqrt 8 values of Bool. < 1444870450 451709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't lambdabot have a smallcheck plugin at one point? < 1444870859 25362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn ((a -> a) -> a) -> a < 1444870859 241888 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :f a = a (\ b -> b) < 1444870950 561327 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 9 values for 2 bools < 1444870958 125499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if you can get something that is classically true and yet tacking on -> v) -> v for all its variables doesn't turn it intuitionistically true < 1444870967 772864 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bools are nullable I assume < 1444871025 578647 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are Haskell bools not nullable? < 1444871052 812930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nullable, but they have undefined < 1444871056 634076 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined :: Bool < 1444871058 844823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1444871067 610413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, 3 values < 1444871089 779752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you start distinguishing different exceptions, in which case you have infinitely many < 1444871104 92877 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah typical use of null is as a undefined value with defined behaviour < 1444871127 987962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which haskell's undefined isn't, you cannot test for it in pure code < 1444871139 2104 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/3osqqe/hlist_010_heterogeneously_typed_lists_with/ < 1444871155 677975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's defined behavior i guess, just not useful to test on < 1444871428 332181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably want a Maybe Bool if you want a "nullable bool". < 1444871565 571759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the "Just x" constructors, they make code sound friendly and approachable. < 1444871590 826243 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By contrast, Java 8's Optional has methods like "orElse", which sound vaguely threatening. < 1444871604 408646 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This value better not be empty, orElse. < 1444871649 641290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just Right <*> Just "there" < 1444871651 47757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just (Right "there") < 1444871659 141884 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> frоmEnum False :: [Bool] < 1444871660 682164 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True,*Exception: openFile: does not exist (no such file or directory) < 1444871678 836024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fromEnum < 1444871680 24068 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enum a => a -> Int < 1444871700 655071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t frоmEnum False < 1444871701 883800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Bool] < 1444871710 714799 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1444871738 338727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> frоmEnum False :: [Bool] < 1444871739 880210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True,*Exception: openFile: does not exist (no such file or directory) < 1444871776 589229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum 2 < 1444871778 63141 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1444871791 280021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> frоmEnum False :: [Bool] < 1444871792 814772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True,*Exception: openFile: does not exist (no such file or directory) < 1444871799 746570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAA < 1444871814 818925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False :: [Bool] < 1444871816 103115 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘[Bool]’ with actual type ‘Int’ < 1444871816 280119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: fromEnum False :: [Bool] < 1444871827 273123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode False < 1444871828 110460 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0046 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+0073 LATIN SMALL LETTER S] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] < 1444871837 852247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1444871843 718673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1444871843 921554 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, it's enumFrom. < 1444871855 275624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` unidecode enumFrom # hth < 1444871856 354632 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] [U+0046 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] < 1444871873 976538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode frоmEnum < 1444871874 810900 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+043E CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER O] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] [U+0045 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U] [U+006D LATIN SMALL LETTER M] < 1444871888 828252 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sneaky. < 1444871891 690905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> frоmEnum (2::Int) < 1444871893 368439 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True,*Exception: openFile: does not exist (no such file or directory) < 1444871898 854749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit less sneaky than it looked at first < 1444871916 974963 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False :: [Bool] < 1444871918 253659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence ‘fromEnum’ < 1444871918 430785 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either ‘L.fromEnum’, < 1444871918 430865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : defined at /tmp/mueval8057508461632621729.hs:161:1 < 1444871921 754607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1444871924 611167 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1444871928 466795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, more sneaky < 1444871930 682026 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type frоmEnum < 1444871931 909738 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :t -> [Bool] < 1444871934 820436 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my font those two o's look quite distinct < 1444871949 343199 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never realized fromEnum and enumFrom both existed < 1444871952 722915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very non-picky fromEnum. < 1444871955 907233 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i realized they each existed, though) < 1444872052 432131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> enumFromTo minBound maxBound :: [Bool] < 1444872052 609267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: very quantum < 1444872054 26170 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [False,True] < 1444872492 566270 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444872499 661692 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back. Again. < 1444872989 939613 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444873188 538580 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hippavilion! < 1444874237 798808 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07C+14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44743 5* 0369.118.252.58 5* (+1217) 10It's a joke somewhat < 1444874300 996858 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07C+14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44744&oldid=44743 5* 0369.118.252.58 5* (-2) 10 < 1444874468 932067 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444874592 624115 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44745&oldid=44621 5* 0369.118.252.58 5* (+9) 10/* General languages */ < 1444874593 997723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a use for ImpredicativeTypes: let reify :: forall a r. a -> (forall s. Reifies s a => Proxy s -> r) -> r; reify a k = (unsafeCoerce unsafeCoerce :: (forall s. Reifies s a => Proxy s -> r) -> (Proxy s -> a) -> Proxy s -> r) k (const a) Proxy < 1444874610 782902 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44746&oldid=44745 5* 0369.118.252.58 5* (-7) 10/* General languages */ < 1444874682 397095 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44747&oldid=44669 5* 0369.118.252.58 5* (+9) 10 < 1444874733 895638 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44748&oldid=44747 5* 0369.118.252.58 5* (+0) 10/* C */ < 1444874764 625325 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: How about a "tied list" data structure? Or Tied XML? < 1444874775 893519 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this channel < 1444874790 8087 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adie: It's the discussion of Esoteric Programming Languages < 1444874801 747414 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does esoteric mean < 1444874818 943715 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tangled and Tied XML: ) < 1444874825 303153 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adie: Weird; not normal; surreal < 1444874841 457215 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like php? < 1444874845 107997 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes xD < 1444874853 677565 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you do programming. I was just about to ask that. < 1444874889 19153 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1444874902 205560 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, brainfuck, a TC language with only 8 instructions (+-<>[].,), with two of them just for IO (unnecessary for TCness) and too many derivatives < 1444874910 789676 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place is weird < 1444874923 14220 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're weird < 1444874928 910436 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of what we do xD < 1444875030 534148 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could visit our wiki if you're interested in what we do more: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1444875127 178000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming languages are languages for which being useful was not a primary design goal < 1444875132 284704 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck asterism14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44749 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+26) 10Created Page as a convenience redirect < 1444875149 137014 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or it was, but it aims to achieve so in a roundabout way < 1444875160 121722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: well, no, that's not really being useful < 1444875184 969685 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: s/roundabout/completely new/ < 1444875202 658588 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/useful/useful for programming/ < 1444875207 104512 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge could be useful if it had some libraries that people use. < 1444875208 488394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, one of the reasons I stay here is in the hope that we'll discover the next new big thing in programming < 1444875219 278927 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We probably have already < 1444875222 196817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: explain to hppavilion[1] that you already have plenty of libraries < 1444875224 63947 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can only run gpl code on it without saying so, but the patient declined." fnord dominus < 1444875279 698883 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that a CSV-based funge COULD be the next big thing < 1444875298 48423 :relrod_!~relrod@redhat/relrod NICK :relrod < 1444875310 790261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :relrod: rellorod < 1444875324 323506 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't know why he had a tail :( < 1444875356 342222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: I don't, really < 1444875375 276967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think to really revolutionize programming, you have to attack it from an angle that doesn't really fit in with existing code < 1444875389 361502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been aiming to do some things along those lines < 1444875403 156928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result is that the languages are impossible, with known techniques, to implement efficiently, and nobody can figure out how to program in them < 1444875411 981895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(look at something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/WUUI for example) < 1444875419 323111 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe not the next big thing, but I bet it could go beyond our community. Not CSV strictly, but more spreadsheet-based. < 1444875608 579944 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck⁂14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44750&oldid=44627 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+599) 10IDs for Operator Overloading in Classes (this is a fucking BF derivative) < 1444875635 930847 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck⁂14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44751&oldid=44750 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+0) 10Fixed some formatting < 1444875674 154990 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck⁂14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44752&oldid=44751 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+4) 10Fixed some formatting (again) < 1444875706 816582 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What character should define a class? < 1444875751 363166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: huh, is the double unsafeCoerce necessary? < 1444875753 120987 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way it'll work is there'll be two commands: Define the following code block to a class and set current cell to instance of corresponding class < 1444875763 593918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Not sure. < 1444875794 872184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent much less time on those comments than I did on the answer. I'd be happy to see it done in a more straightforward way. < 1444875828 747476 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a DB software that follows this analogy: SQL:C::This:Python < 1444875829 165595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The obvious thing (unsafeCoerce :: (forall ...) -> ...) didn't seem to work but I didn't investigate too much. < 1444875838 292909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1444875845 374067 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also how did you get this notification exactly < 1444875867 404120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because ImpredicativeTypes are currently crap < 1444875868 449744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are you some sort of fancy moderator? < 1444875873 814196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1444875877 554060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what notification < 1444875883 640623 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind, I forgot that I posted that in here. < 1444875916 214059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1444875928 166013 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were reading http://stackoverflow.com/a/17794883 < 1444875947 423193 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you always seem to be on that website < 1444876014 139221 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i am, but i don't remembber that message < 1444876017 716741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-b < 1444876052 534220 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an old answer, just a new comment < 1444876221 784079 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm gonna make a language called c❄ < 1444876237 681277 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ❄ < 1444876238 554160 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2744 SNOWFLAKE] < 1444876251 113095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it better be unique and precious < 1444876329 925223 :impomatic_!~digital_w@84.92.166.118 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444876376 348386 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`multicode -r snowflake < 1444876377 325040 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: multicode [options] arg \ \ multicode: error: no such option: - < 1444876379 986431 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` multicode -r snowflake < 1444876381 191114 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2744 SNOWFLAKE \ UTF-8: e2 9d 84 UTF-16BE: 2744 Decimal: ❄ \ ❄ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2745 TIGHT TRIFOLIATE SNOWFLAKE \ UTF-8: e2 9d 85 UTF-16BE: 2745 Decimal: ❅ \ ❅ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+2746 HEAVY CHEVRON SNOWFLAKE \ UTF-8: e2 9d 86 UTF < 1444876398 982610 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be based on C, but rather than adding features < 1444876437 134032 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will alter the syntax to be as clean as freshly fallen snow < 1444876478 683454 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on some code samples first, then I'll figure out a real spec < 1444876548 636198 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` multicode -r snowflake | awk 'NR % 6 == 1 || NR % 6 == 3' < 1444876549 909781 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2744 SNOWFLAKE \ ❄ \ U+2745 TIGHT TRIFOLIATE SNOWFLAKE \ ❅ \ U+2746 HEAVY CHEVRON SNOWFLAKE \ ❆ < 1444876630 832796 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a megadb... < 1444876645 745651 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be slower, but easier to use. Like C:Python. < 1444876662 200887 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Slower mostly because it'll be made in python xD) < 1444876724 841560 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it will RUN at the same speed, but the cleaner looking syntax might slow down compilation < 1444876782 675624 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: It won't be compiled, at least in the original version. I'm not smart enough to compile things. < 1444876798 301780 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1444876805 959548 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except this one program that I manually compiled, but that was literally a single instruction) < 1444876807 53673 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic? < 1444876818 56805 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not recognize that abbreviation < 1444876902 831805 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call this DB for now? ArbourDB? (It'll allow one to use trees instead of/along with/merged with Tables if one desires) < 1444877053 477374 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tree on a table? like bonsai? < 1444877545 559074 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Yes. You can have a table where the cells in one or more columns are binary or other trees. Like a bonzai. < 1444877659 632386 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is that everything is based around a sort of "Arithmetic of the Types". In SQL, all tables are of the type (or type expression) (Map)*LinkedList, or (Array)*LinkedList, depending on if you want to think of it as a map or as an array where each index has an implied value < 1444877676 143387 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma go make a BNF of the syntax < 1444877770 301833 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I have a code sample for c❄ < 1444877773 585150 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main () printf "answer: %d\n", 0x0e | 0xf8 + 1;; < 1444877797 356813 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then. < 1444877799 720754 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :equivalent C: < 1444877845 399985 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main () { printf("answer: %d\n", (0x0e | 0xf8) + 1); } < 1444877859 303571 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T LIKE IT < 1444877877 735010 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Leads to too much ambiguity) < 1444877888 991252 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then again, these /are/ esolangs, so...) < 1444877894 91720 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally unambigious < 1444877915 912323 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a block always ends in ;; < 1444877923 253938 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's ambiguous to the programmer- oh. < 1444877931 920965 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a statement ends in ; < 1444877951 835347 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's the last statement in a block < 1444878022 974897 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x = 3; puts "it's three";; else; puts "it's not three";; < 1444878155 435200 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main int argc❄ char **argv❄❄ puts "Hello, world!"❄❄ < 1444878354 627682 :perdurabo!~Peregrinu@93.114.45.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444878362 746378 :perdurabo!~Peregrinu@93.114.45.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone from amorc here? < 1444878371 16096 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should I call my DB's generalization of tables? They aren't really tables, because they can be of different form from (Map)*LinkedList. < 1444878382 759958 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perdurabo: What's amorc? < 1444878411 453807 :perdurabo!~Peregrinu@93.114.45.137 PART :#esoteric < 1444878473 933230 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was interesting < 1444878643 216848 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: Do you have any clue what to call my "tables"? < 1444878668 335103 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444878758 165518 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hellu. Welcome to this channel. < 1444878808 383570 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm the only one who's done anything in the last 5 minutes, but there are a few people out there who are probably just forgetting to open their client < 1444878836 236180 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) greets < 1444878901 224809 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org is a good place to go to find existing weird languages; you should probably start with Brainfuck, Unlambda, and Befunge (and maybe malbolge), as those are the first few that come to mind < 1444878927 827898 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, just start hitting "random page" and hope you don't land on another BF derivative < 1444878932 875107 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to go eat. < 1444878941 774305 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, see, Brainfuck type of languages is exactly what i'm trying to avoid. < 1444879506 588025 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In c❄ you replace the c syntax *p with p*. < 1444879544 136434 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes brackets unnecessary in many type definitions < 1444879653 266177 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a c `struct foo (*a)[4]` is in c❄ a `struct foo a*[4]` < 1444879697 166718 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a c `struct foo *a[4]` is in c❄ a `struct foo a[4]*` < 1444880258 637290 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, & ^ and | have the same precedence as + and - < 1444880297 467181 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do << and >> < 1444880333 259955 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it so difficult for computational methods to extract accurate meaning from natural language sentences? < 1444880372 752926 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's difficult because natural language sentences are mostly ambiguous < 1444880386 120858 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like colloquial sentences, informal; or better yet, from poetic expressions. < 1444880414 466015 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing code to extract meaning from natural language sentences is literally my job < 1444880445 434102 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: fabulous. < 1444880467 552414 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure what the user meant by "who's the bass dude" < 1444880513 731696 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better yet "what does s m mean after a word" < 1444880606 64101 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mostly ambiguous" sonds quite an accurate description of natural sentences ... and humorous :) < 1444880656 464259 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, even if the meaning is clear, intention may depend on context < 1444880726 462364 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"send a text message to ted" < 1444880736 205463 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who ted is depends on the user < 1444880744 856963 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: yes, true. I'm familiar with rhetorical figures. < 1444880778 784329 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many kinds of metaphorical forms < 1444880813 433585 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: is there a programming paradigm better suited to this task of extracting accurate meaning from natural sentences? < 1444880882 113326 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually certain. Some people claim statistical models are better, others claim that parsing things according to a syntax is better < 1444880935 332565 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose a method of cross checking context against a humongous corpus of text (all written language of all eras of all humanity :P ) won't scale very well. < 1444881036 957044 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm far from an expert in NLP anyway. it's just my job. < 1444881089 976258 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took a course in NLP a few years ago, but I only got a B < 1444881091 496178 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then again, the original utterances of your linguisticall smart buddy, after 3 beers at the local bar, might not be written anywhere ever . . . yet you understand exactly what he means ... lol < 1444881152 382971 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistics still handles that case < 1444881154 946329 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: you might be the one that pulls the sword out of the rock . . . :D < 1444881175 599319 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hogget: good-turing frequency estimation < 1444881179 702774 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: the context checking case, you mean? < 1444881205 261327 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, the unattested utterances < 1444881218 113601 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, :D < 1444881361 172486 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also try approaching it from the perspective of coordination instead of communication < 1444881403 994517 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that its any easier) < 1444881522 633692 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how coordination? < 1444881546 798884 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand what coordination means here either < 1444881610 776531 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: you may be surprised to learn that the code I write for NLP is mostly C++ < 1444881715 955683 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\oren\: yea . . . I heard C++ didn't do strings very well . . . but i don't know C++ at all. < 1444881770 564677 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :std::string is... ok-ish < 1444881832 425434 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, std::vector is bad with threading so we use something else < 1444882186 198019 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are a lot of products that try to understand human language commands these days < 1444882197 805480 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do humans disambiguate then? If most lang. is ambiguous, our mechanism to determine meaning must be pretty good. My guess is that we do a funneling type of selecting from many meanings, that we crosscheck with known contexts, plug in a possible fit with the rest of the sentence, and keep trying 'til a good fit. All at faster than light speed, of course. < 1444882247 403093 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we try to guess what is already on the person's mind and only listen to words as a last resort < 1444882249 288316 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The human brain is massivley parallel in it's processing. < 1444882251 918892 :JesseH!~JesseH@oftn/member/JesseH QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444882285 386746 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think it analyzes things in a bunch of different ways < 1444882405 618890 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1444882410 391475 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: Yeah. and then as we hear a sentence we often autocomplete it, leading to errors when people speak weird < 1444882417 749063 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, gesture clues from the interlocutor are a major source of meaning. < 1444882458 700086 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gaze direction < 1444882462 788983 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tilt of the head, eyebrows expressions, etc. < 1444882494 906345 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :at work we're using a jackhammer so hearing is difficult < 1444882523 761186 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, I can lipread english fairly accurately, so I can follow a conversation even with headphones in < 1444882526 586751 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, there's the written level of expressions . . . and that's a major part of the "written www" < 1444882572 567046 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAL-9000 could lip read ... ;) < 1444882742 275313 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "smells web" is slated for 2025, lol < 1444884486 450437 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444885437 543667 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444885496 358033 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back < 1444885510 583606 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about an EXTREME instrospective language? < 1444885517 827611 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even a metaintrospective language? < 1444885605 332185 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444885610 821933 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi adu! < 1444885622 552381 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1444885643 927755 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: Is the Propogator Model another name for Reactive Programming? < 1444885655 129111 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: no < 1444885661 400932 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1444885668 880945 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it then? I can't find a Wiki article on it < 1444885685 671036 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the propogator model is a replacement for the Turing machine < 1444885701 314166 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :reactive programming is a replacement for procedural programming < 1444885719 817790 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Turing machine is not "another name" for procedural programming < 1444885728 841240 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1444885744 994989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: A rose by any other name would compute as sweet < 1444885746 558064 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said it was and I wasn't going to say it was. < 1444885753 133888 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one is descriptive and one is perscriptive < 1444885780 916605 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: propogator model is perscriptive, reactive programming is descriptive < 1444885796 561847 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Turing machine is perscriptive, procedural programming is descriptive < 1444885806 847170 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that Reacitve programming is where if x=y, x==y is always true no matter how y changes, unless x is redefined < 1444885837 839629 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: reactive programming is changing a cell in a spreadsheet < 1444885850 636086 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that. < 1444885947 600126 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry to interrupt < 1444885949 725831 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue < 1444886024 478478 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fine < 1444886076 646932 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on a sexp <=> mathml converter < 1444886150 34232 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: you did not interrupt; thanks for explanations < 1444886150 236950 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1444886211 618529 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1444886215 27575 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: my initial question was: is there a programming paradigm better suited to extracting accurate meaning from natural language sentences? < 1444886229 170485 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: SQL looks very englishy < 1444886271 350867 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SQL is not for parsing natural languages < 1444886273 5104 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm attempting to design a better type of Database software than SQL. Not faster, of course. I'm bad at fast code. Just more... featureful. < 1444886278 753559 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1444886302 757168 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a language for learning what a sentence says, not a language that is supposedly easier to write because it's englishy < 1444886320 315150 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: yes, that < 1444886327 44894 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL:C::ArbourDB:Python < 1444886356 169463 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: Are you attempting to do something like a Text Adventure where you just need to know what a person means or do you want a thing that can understand Shakespear? < 1444886364 694363 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: what's wrong with noSQL dbases? < 1444886370 206427 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(given decads of code) < 1444886373 439197 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*decades < 1444886386 625112 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: Not enough trees < 1444886423 892414 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: to understand Shakespeare is a good analogy < 1444886433 975622 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's nothing wrong with them, I'm just trying to make the Python of databases. I see SQL as the C of databases; very powerful, but not capable of things that don't fit a table) < 1444886444 371248 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Mathematica maybe? xD < 1444886454 24020 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: consider drawing inspiration from HDFS and Cassandra < 1444886458 851330 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISP I hear is used in AI a lot, though I think it's a different kind of AI. < 1444886515 181746 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have only a handful of sentence structures you need to understand (as one might need in a TBG), then just Python and some Parser Combinators will be good enough. < 1444886557 717960 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for example, you just need to match an instruction saying to do x with object y using object z, maybe with some adverbs) < 1444886604 592818 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a myth < 1444886621 259191 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISP was used for AI < 1444886637 261356 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i think i need more muscle < 1444886644 475398 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's like saying "PHP is how the web works" < 1444886707 733848 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally think that the most realistic AI will be hybrid < 1444886714 550710 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you need to ACTUALLY be able to parse the full works of shakespear... well, you'll need access to a Dictionary API to start with. THEN you'll need to solve the noun-or-verb problem with "kick". THEN, if you aren't using machine learning to figure out what it means, you'll have to produce some BNF for sentence structures (and no matter how hard you try, there'll always be a few gramatically correct outliers), THEN make a parser < 1444886716 121487 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of that (the easiest way is with combinators). If you CAN use machine learning, well, that's not my area of expertise < 1444886766 928532 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: there are 3 DBs I'm trying to learn right now: Virtuoso, Jena and eXist < 1444886804 204443 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jena is an RDF DB, eXist is an XML DB, and Virtuoso is a DB that understands RDF and XML < 1444886902 218631 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBG = Tall Bald Guy? < 1444886915 873905 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To parse sentences, you'll first have to lex the words out of it (and in the process you'll likely need to detect whether it's a noun or verb, which is hard for words that can be both), then you'll need to find how to identify the subclauses (like "john kicked"), then you'll need to recognize full clauses, then you'll need to be able to hook those together with I,cI, I;I and combinations of those. I;I will be easy, I,cI not so much, as < 1444886916 89515 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to preserve the c and extract meaning from that too. < 1444886969 4904 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_flies_like_an_arrow;_fruit_flies_like_a_banana < 1444887020 953013 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you'll have some difficult when it comes to things people do differently (read: wrong). Does punctuation go INSIDE or OUTSIDE of the quote? Your teacher says inside, but most programmers put it outside. < 1444887039 745393 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put it outside < 1444887051 608826 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Noah Webster was wrong < 1444887055 340165 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: So do I. Other people do it wrong. Quotes are literal, goddammit! < 1444887055 517056 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm an outtie too < 1444887058 753536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers put it outside because that gives more information on what was and wasn't part of the quote < 1444887060 174057 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1444887066 778316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes the quote more accurate to the original < 1444887073 557341 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Exactly. That's why I do it. < 1444887084 247831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard English style not only moves punctuation marks to the wrong side, it also changes full stops to/from commas < 1444887090 643013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a weird rule that loses info < 1444887107 938606 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Who came up with that? < 1444887136 926593 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: In short, I recommend you DON'T parse english with combinators alone. Use /some/ machine learning, but also combinators because they're fun. < 1444887145 557472 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it wasn't Webster, I just hate him for putting extra letters that are silent on EVRYTNG < 1444887177 743584 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should I say "everythingue" < 1444887193 145566 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1444887258 414280 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: it was the London book printers who made a rightful mess of spelling. < 1444887288 562618 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know there are lots of similarities between spelling and RDF < 1444887379 557322 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp seems to be well suited for parsing natural langs. What do you fellas think? < 1444887413 185071 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like most of the work spells the work "knows" as "knows", but RDF is trying to get people to spell it "http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/knows" < 1444887423 524718 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. I don't know enough about lisp for that. < 1444887424 439202 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/work/world/ < 1444887446 413333 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: I think parsers are well suited for that < 1444887464 594895 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: my favorite parsing frameworks as of recent have been ANTLR and Perl6 < 1444887465 997816 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like most of the world spells the world "knows" as "knows", but RDF is trying to get people to spell it" < 1444887467 336162 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc and lex, you mean? < 1444887512 682595 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: ANTLR and Perl6 < 1444887533 549162 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: i see. (i'm slow to keyboard) < 1444887575 133595 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANTLR and Perl6 have one thing in common as I see it, they both equate grammar productions with class methods < 1444887661 777275 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them can be simple, like plusminus = { plus | minus } or they can be a function written by you, which is required in some cases < 1444887677 345390 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that makes me happy < 1444887691 425937 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the escape from "regular" constrants < 1444887700 722144 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "context free" constraints < 1444887797 83854 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: hmm ... putting NLP grammar permutations in classes makes me think i'll end up with tons of ravioli code. < 1444887815 862256 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: have you ever heard of modules? < 1444887835 741642 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm designing a DB where you can store, for example, Trees where the nodes contain Rows. < 1444887836 378053 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's thing thing called "import", it's kind of great < 1444887867 877204 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: sounds like Virtuoso < 1444887883 264360 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: also, Apache Drill < 1444887888 520647 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444887926 49709 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd create a DB like this with CREATE DATABASE TYPE (binarytree BY row[]) < 1444887935 660231 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something along those lines. It's still in design. < 1444887978 320165 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 RDF < 1444887999 403725 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking I'd use XML. < 1444888003 318245 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for storage. < 1444888017 5733 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 MathML < 1444888027 3710 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is pretty crappy < 1444888044 871759 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's grammar is larger than most use cases < 1444888065 333759 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1444888066 314096 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its < 1444888073 884670 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1444888077 647185 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :true dat < 1444888090 179465 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my grammar iz bad < 1444888095 750019 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to admit that english is pretty weird there < 1444888114 392139 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: where? < 1444888115 45071 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll most likely end up just using pickling, but I hope in the later version it'll be XML-based < 1444888121 557265 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: its vs. it's < 1444888124 177518 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you write adu's but not it's < 1444888148 81801 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: the contration apostraphe overrides < 1444888183 223693 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 0^0 is undefined, but lim x->0 x^x = 1, because math < 1444888197 812883 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: Not sure what that meant, but I think you have it backwards < 1444888204 587443 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about contractions overriding < 1444888220 708323 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's = it is < 1444888228 369997 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hhow is 0.1^0.1 closer to 1 than 0.01^0.01? < 1444888230 134085 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its = the thing of it < 1444888271 549004 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because math* < 1444888290 862092 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having 0^0 undefined is pretty reasonable, though < 1444888317 737403 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/limit-of-x-x-as-x-approaches-0.487199/ < 1444888325 890423 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time flies . . ." stock example is bogus, at least the way Wikip. shows it: it relies on a spelling error. "fruit flies" is in error; the correct form is "fruit-flies"—it's a hyphenated composite, as its singular "fruit-fly". < 1444888360 946466 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration#Extension_to_base_zero < 1444888382 951094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: I think the nonhyphenated spelling is becoming more common (possibly due to the phrase in question) < 1444888482 571253 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@247-3-174-206.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444888606 577165 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's unfortunate. Moreso considering that the natural process with these hyphenates is to drop the hyphen and conflate the terms: "fruitfly", "Micro-soft" (it was spelled that way in the beginning) into "Microsoft". < 1444888748 926873 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :go-ogle < 1444888764 746580 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah without the hyphen it's better < 1444888765 570331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: it seems about even whether hyphenated words end up with the hyphen being replaced with a space or with nothing < 1444888810 820578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw Wikipedia seems to spell "fruit fly" without the hyphen < 1444888866 789382 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wiki is not 100% reliable :( < 1444888883 536666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1444889082 288501 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what I think < 1444889103 468631 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should write an OS with the progagator model < 1444889108 910521 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Google" has never been "Go-ogle", that i'm aware of. < 1444889124 583303 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not, but Java was Oak < 1444889138 676624 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and JavaScript was LiveScript < 1444889154 400376 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then everyone drank too much coffee < 1444889158 300131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: that joke was made by Google themselves, but much later (when talking about a debugger for their new language, they suggested calling it "ogle") < 1444889163 157568 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is imperative, no? < 1444889191 930089 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hogget: imperative/procedural (I prefer the term procedural) < 1444889255 16281 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoLang? < 1444889257 649598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java's normally considered to be in the "Java-style OO" paradigm (to distinguish it from Smalltalk-style OO) < 1444889262 29656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's kind-of recursive < 1444889292 660446 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Java-style OO started as C++ features that people could understand < 1444889344 122839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :understanding C++ OO is actually pretty hard < 1444889356 423555 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's bad < 1444889363 788372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically because its default implementation of features is a limited functionality version that can be implemented efficiently < 1444889377 979966 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want full Java-style OO functionality you have to opt into it with keywords like "virtual" < 1444889385 107796 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ replaces verbosity with ambiguity, that's not a good trade IMHO < 1444889386 657664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the performance cost < 1444889452 7806 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambiguity makes programming more difficult < 1444889618 179146 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my usual concerns are: Clarity, Readability, Maintainability above Brevity and Expressiveness < 1444889658 778572 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ doesn't even come close < 1444889673 14566 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl6 strikes a good balance < 1444889683 803392 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Perl5 is confusing < 1444889719 5810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in order to make a good esolang, we reverse all that? < 1444889732 785452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :inclarity, unreadability, unmaintainability in the pursuit of brevity and expressiveness < 1444889742 924254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that pretty much is just the definition of a golfing language < 1444889749 589219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are a few of those already < 1444889792 230480 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the benefit of esolangs? < 1444889803 623663 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a range of benefits, really < 1444889803 812236 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the payoff < 1444889805 440817 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I briefly thought of a golfing language where you have your favorite choice of (say) Huffman tree of instructions, and correctly determined that this is not much fun < 1444889815 167419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people view it as art; Daniel Temkin's blog seems to be looking at it from that perspective < 1444889826 154305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/2014 can't really be explained except as art < 1444889837 532489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people view it as long-shot attempts to find the next big thing in pogramming < 1444889844 830294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programming < 1444889855 114520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people use it as practice for designing/implementing more serious languages later < 1444889871 49068 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people do esoprogramming for the mental challenge (especially in cases like http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust) < 1444889908 836432 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interesting < 1444889947 815837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's an attempt to poke fun at specific existing languages < 1444889964 80385 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PART #esoteric :"WeeChat 1.3" < 1444889982 392691 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera JOIN :#esoteric < 1444889996 248366 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sometimes it's about interesting thought experiments, like that boltzmann brain language of ais < 1444890007 117008 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think APL, J, Funge98 are good examples of brevity and expressiveness < 1444890060 552417 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some are where you try to figure out proofs for the computational power of a language, like M:tG < 1444890087 778378 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Underload with only some set of its symbols kept < 1444890230 294812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me, the M:tG case is a good argument that the rules of the game should stop trying to ask the impossible < 1444890236 57602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'd love a good uncomputability proof < 1444890258 98233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should probably only take one layer of subgames + a fix to the existing construction + some way to inspect players' life totals < 1444890271 970668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc uncomputability isn't as strong as I'd like < 1444890286 826806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer an impossibility result (e.g. via showing that the language can solve its own halting problem) < 1444890294 307186 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what should take a layer of subgames and a way to inspect life totals? < 1444890309 714873 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are tons of ways to inspect life totals < 1444890310 640875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: construction of an interpreter for a uncomputable language in M:tG < 1444890347 405495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language would basically just need to be TC, plus the ability to (at one point during execution) solve the halting problem on a single program in a Turing-equivalent language < 1444890364 536015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's uncomputable, and probably M:tG implementable < 1444890392 999574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not as interesting as being able to do an unlimited number of halting problem evaluations, and nowhere near as interesting as being able to solve its own halting problem < 1444890519 880347 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :life total => Ruthless Cullblade, Death's Shadow, Serra Avatar, Roiling Horror. < 1444890547 605666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure which of those would fit into the construction < 1444890578 999319 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are all creatures whose power or toughness depends on the life total of some player, < 1444890593 796211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with the conditional +toughness effects is that they produce a something/nothing distinction rather than a something/something else distinction < 1444890597 564040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't understand what you need to inspect life totals for in first place < 1444890615 402069 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditionals on subgame outcome < 1444890623 776042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shahrazad halves the life total of the loser) < 1444890651 827834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc there is the problem that the players could concede the subgame and mess up the calculations, although I'm not sure if you can concede in the middle of an infinite loop because the game is already platonically drawn at that point < 1444890693 735040 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for something and something else, I listed four creatures that work in at least three different ways < 1444890707 378015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually serra avatar + death's shadow (with a ton of +1/+1 counters) might work < 1444890715 632045 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh oh < 1444890717 430251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they both trigger on the same player's life total but in opposite senses < 1444890724 631769 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hear the science news? < 1444890734 821693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which specific science news? < 1444890736 573701 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Kilogram is being redefined! < 1444890794 17048 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_redefinition_of_SI_base_units#Kilogram < 1444890815 555646 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :adu: people have been proposing redefinitions for like decades < 1444890824 564000 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them don't make any sense because they can't be measured precise enough < 1444890833 849809 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but this time NIST is endorsing it < 1444890857 373016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I did hear that, although the specific interesting news is more "we've now measured Planck's Constant and/or Avogadro's Number accurately enough that we might be able to replace the kilogram with it" < 1444890868 877611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they might want a few more decimal places first though < 1444890873 156169 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the ones that would require you to measure the Avogadro constant or the Planck's Constant for more than a few digits precision < 1444890897 974770 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even worse if you try to measure the universal gravity constant, mind you < 1444890925 138619 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, big G is dependant on relativistic effects, like how close to a singluarity you are < 1444890960 92540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc they don't need to be perfectly accurate < 1444890965 547670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just more accurate than the kilogram bar in question < 1444891004 803851 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, but also they have to think of the future, eg. the definition should make sense thirty years from now, with unknown future technology < 1444891041 29702 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I got the impression that big G was calculable from the gravitational field < 1444891067 200060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in the universe (apart from the official kilogram bar) has gradually been getting slightly heavier over the last 100 years… < 1444891077 792112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you want something that permits no decisions by any players to mess up the computation, then I think you have to use breakable infinite loops, not subgames, because _either_ player can concede a subgame, which probably makes the whole thing meaningless. < 1444891121 306801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well don't the rules imply that as soon as a loop starts with no player choices, the game is instantly drawn? thus no time to concede? < 1444891139 642341 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, maybe you could somehow rig the subgame so the information you get out is not only from losing or winning, but from drawing or from wishing cards away from the main game < 1444891143 234469 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't play out iterations of the loop in the hope that your opponent will concede < 1444891162 206400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that, using Glittering Wish < 1444891223 472125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I don't think so, you can concede very fast, and even so, I think it's almost impossible to set up a Shahrazad subgame in any sane way. unless you start the subgame with so few cards that it's an instant loss from drawing the starting hand, the players have the choice of at least mulliganing and placing Leylines < 1444891240 418614 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think you can even have a loop before some player does something in the subgame < 1444891243 364739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I was planning to set it up during initial setup < 1444891253 843916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, using player choices to set up the state both outside and inside the subgame < 1444891270 119224 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you'd just set up one subgame? < 1444891270 972317 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then performing the one action that starts the chain of triggered abilities going < 1444891272 593397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1444891278 755874 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1444891286 114410 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I don't see why you need a subgame < 1444891288 283049 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's enough for uncomputablity, also for, say, solving the Riemann hypothesis < 1444891297 714365 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use one game with one loop that must be broken if it's infinite < 1444891335 356294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a language uncomputable if it can't do anything after an infinite loop is detected? < 1444891337 161178 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that doesn't work < 1444891337 996878 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1444891346 797676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has the "undefined and infinite loops are equivalent" rule, and isn't normally considered uncomputable < 1444891359 114318 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll think about this < 1444891393 141579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I really wanted to do was set up a language that could solve its own halting problem, but I'm pretty sure you can't do it with finitely many nested subgaes < 1444891395 373681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*subgames < 1444891400 62533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, a specific finite number) < 1444891424 312067 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure, that just means undefined could cause an infinite loop. it's like how some actions in C cause undefined behaviour, which is allowed to cause monkeys flying out your ass, but that doesn't mean C is uncomputable because it has the power to cause monkeys flying out your ass < 1444891560 814725 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mind you, I'm quite sure you are allowed to concede even within a loop with no decisions < 1444891571 866483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but the game's already over at that point < 1444891579 333417 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1444891581 79777 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1444891586 219747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't concede the game after your opponent has lost it, IIRC < 1444891592 743632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he hasn't lost yet < 1444891593 695386 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1444891621 26229 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either there is some point in time after which the game is over, or else there is no point in time after which the game is over < 1444891624 133412 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are you claiming is true? < 1444891631 872545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when an unstoppable infinite loop happens, that is) < 1444891640 41205 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't we find that in a multiplayer game, you can concede when a player chooses to cast Hex (he just revealed it) to save your teammate, right? < 1444891660 602767 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still works even if nobody has a choice during the casting of Hex because there's only one way to pay it and only six creatures to target < 1444891666 230165 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wait, it gets worse < 1444891671 950773 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but that's because the game isn't over yet < 1444891680 323163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it could be over < 1444891688 392746 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Hex destroys the Platinum Angel or whatever < 1444891691 769302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, casting Hex by itself is unlikely to end the game < 1444891694 747549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it hasn't resolved yet < 1444891711 553031 :adu!~ajr@c-73-133-129-229.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1444891713 695700 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, players have nothing in your hand and can't activate any ability or something < 1444891722 17884 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :all they can do is concede < 1444891747 527512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the better question is "suppose someone casts Hex and it targets a Platinum Angel (among other things) that's preventing the game ending; can you concede during the resolution?" < 1444891765 773318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference between game-ending events and non-game-ending events < 1444891768 803833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the more important thing is Chaos Confetti and other un-cards, which can force your opponent to tear up their cards (with copy effect or Mindslaver or similar) or do other strange things, and the only way out from that is conceding < 1444891780 887429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that you can concede any time during the game, but you can't concede after the game is over < 1444891807 391555 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure you can concede in a Chaos Confetti casting, even if you have no in-game choice before choosing how to drop the Confetti < 1444891811 618784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole blacker lotus combo doesn't end the game (if it did, you wouldn't get to rip up the cards) < 1444891823 527686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying you can concede at any time during the game < 1444891826 999510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not after the game has ended < 1444891866 939175 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: after ending the game? I think you can probably still concede very quickly jsut _before_ the game ends, but usually there's no point < 1444891932 699334 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me to that old rules hole where a particular version of the rules of chess says that it's too late to call out games rules violations after the games has ended, so I'm allowed to just make an illegal move that gives a checkmate, and as that ends the game, you can't do anything about it. < 1444891993 660180 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now I don't understand what you want to do with the subgame at all. < 1444892028 307158 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk hour < 1444892873 175949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically to convert a draw into a win < 1444894080 225158 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1444894080 441618 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the minimum number of symbols a 2-state machine can have? < 1444894282 678549 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing machine, you mean? to be TC? < 1444894307 152767 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1444894307 709707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you allow complex infinte initialization sequences (that are nonetheless subTuring), 3 < 1444894346 881468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for repeating infinite initializations (with a fixed constant pattern in the middle), the best known is 5 (Wolfram's proof of this is buggy but the machine itself is correct) < 1444894349 921690 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1", "0", and ...? < 1444894358 572765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, it really doesn't matter what you call them < 1444894373 410858 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I called the third symbol "2" in my proof < 1444894382 891319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed logical enough < 1444894393 997377 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0", "1", "-" might work better for the way the machine actually behaves, though < 1444894417 820499 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how many states you need if you want the tape to start blank apart from a finite region < 1444894420 282035 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, symbols don't have to correspond to states? < 1444894504 412622 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ... operator < 1444894522 228491 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no real connection between symbols and states < 1444894546 246741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofc, if you did have a 1-1 correspondence, you'd only have 2 symbols, which probably isn't enough with 2 states < 1444894560 115042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(allegedly Minsky proved this, but if he did the proof has been lost) < 1444894596 673814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is still alive, though, so I guess it might be possible to just ask him? < 1444895111 54445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1444895225 596611 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OISC = 1 instruction, 3 symbols < 1444895542 763319 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44753&oldid=44746 5* 03Rdebath 5* (-2) 10Fix reversion by author < 1444895557 406792 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444895737 815053 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444895842 740066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444896830 688827 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping < 1444896840 186192 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1444896863 458195 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was thinking of what you said, and if I understand it right, it would have strange esoteric consequences other than just being uncomputable < 1444896875 31032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm not sure I understand it right either < 1444896883 618148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are multiple uncomputable complexity classes < 1444896889 660817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1444896892 160691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to understand the difference between them makes my heard hurt < 1444896906 279696 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to explain a bit later < 1444897439 942050 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so if I understand you right, you were arguing that if there's an infinite loop such that the infinite loop rules cause the game to be draw, then the game ends as soon as the infinite loop is started < 1444897446 407533 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are two complications with that: < 1444897475 930296 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444897524 427186 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly, that players may have choices that can affect and possibly break the infinite loop, but that the rules don't force them to do to break the infinite loop, like activating abilities in their priority. so the players can make decisions to break an infinite loop somehow. < 1444897598 431474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is that during an infinite loop, there can be hidden information shown to players, such as cards in hidden zones, and some of this hidden info can be needed to determine how the infinite loop works, whether it's infinite, and it can also be information about the supergame (in a subgame) or the match and affect those. < 1444897618 52795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the whole point of the exercise is to show that the M:tG rules are broken < 1444897631 405277 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first case, I have some ideas of what would happen, based on the Four Horsemen thing < 1444897642 138770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second might be resolved the same way but I'm less sure < 1444897659 32856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(can we construct a gametstate that has an infinite amount of hidden information? I can't think of a way to do it, but maybe there is one) < 1444897667 763133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not necessarily infinite, but unbounded < 1444897691 523430 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the rule was that the game ends at the start of the infinite loop, that means the two players have to make decisions that might affect or break the infinite loop, from the information they have available, and then if it turns out that the loop is infinite afterall, then you have to rewind the whole thing, undo wishes, and even call a judge who can cause the players to forget the information that was revealed, < 1444897691 700424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can have face-down tokens via any means, that'd make things too easy :-( < 1444897712 2114 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for if the game was ended before the loop, than that information wasn't revealed afterall. < 1444897744 185902 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that the information they have to forget includes not only cards, but also decisions of the other player, and the strategy of the other player may indirectly hint to other hidden information. < 1444897782 87409 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this would have crazy consequences, but I would like to believe this isn't how the infinite loop rules work. < 1444897806 699667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess the next step is, can we construct an infinite loop that the rules can't recognise as infinite? < 1444897809 857556 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you can probably have unbounded hidden information, wait a minute < 1444897820 161032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it in casual, so long as you assume your sideboard has an infinite number of eldrazi < 1444897905 404289 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, you can't have an _infinite_ number of eldrazi. < 1444897910 452709 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even in casual < 1444897912 453187 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right out < 1444897913 602426 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, it's not a very good assumption < 1444897917 85636 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only finitely many have been printed < 1444897936 998699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically it'd only need to be unbounded; given that BfZ is in print right now, you might be able to get away with it < 1444897952 462307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was your suggestion for unbounded hidden information? < 1444897980 819071 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to look up cards for that right now. I thought there was something that divides all creatures (of a player) to two face down piles or something < 1444897991 422520 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems no, but there could be something else < 1444898007 518028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're probably thinking of raging river's oracle text? < 1444898022 929774 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, those are face up piles < 1444898026 821147 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1444898029 395395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, there's no shuffling there < 1444898032 280876 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no more face down than they were < 1444898040 436684 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there needn't be shuffling < 1444898047 724774 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough if the info is hidden from one player < 1444898050 280857 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't believe you can turn tokens face down, rules-wise < 1444898111 804664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I searched for "face-down pile" but almost all those effects only work on cards < 1444898134 164167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the remaining one temporarily exiles (and thus would destroy a token before it became permanently face-down) < 1444898139 696404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: meeting < 1444899322 121983 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Backslide can turn tokens face down, but I don't think that helps with generating hidden info. Goblin Game can hide an unbounded natural number, but only for a very short uninterruptible time so I don't think it can be abused. < 1444899647 351104 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444899704 338600 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444900873 820096 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444900900 297400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: so the problem with just turning a token face-down (if it's even legal, which I'm not sure about) is that its identity is still public < 1444900903 508174 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good question. I can't yet find a good example for unbounded hidden information < 1444900912 237599 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Backslide can turn tokens face down, but I don't think that helps with generating hidden info. Goblin Game can hide an unbounded natural number, but only for a very short uninterruptible time so I don't think it can be abused. < 1444900921 704674 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what you say < 1444900976 6782 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I still think you can get unbounded hidden info somehow (even without unbounded number of cards) but I'm still trying to figure out how < 1444901360 46403 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:b534:5e8f:be74:27d2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444901360 224697 :bender|!~benderx2@2404:e800:e61a:41d:b534:5e8f:be74:27d2 QUIT :Changing host < 1444901360 224748 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444901402 197248 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1444901407 773873 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ping < 1444901407 952168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1444902930 121019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the heck are set FAQs hidden on the wizards' webpage these days? < 1444903034 891622 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444903170 322594 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1444903420 416122 :Hogget!~KVIrc@66.243.214.110 PART :#esoteric < 1444903669 306770 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :`ls` < 1444903677 232419 :`ls`!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1444903966 889634 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444904134 872071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1444904169 412350 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1444904470 838331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1444904500 711764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444904926 449480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1444905045 330654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444905225 735673 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444905299 134189 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444906531 827287 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1444906532 5551 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1444907682 195649 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1444907682 374067 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1444907855 715080 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :botsnt-e. < 1444908267 366908 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444908269 850184 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1444908328 90415 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1444908746 53260 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: HEAD CHICKEN < 1444909993 872777 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444910339 439367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444910366 97916 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444911172 915154 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1444911343 997569 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444911971 196120 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1444911978 456436 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444911984 64874 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1444912787 409880 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444913481 173084 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1444913652 326117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444913786 39418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1444913802 447823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444914179 724850 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444914224 848890 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDude < 1444915113 922513 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1444915306 924823 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1444915489 56866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444916699 155498 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44754&oldid=42783 5* 03141.219.125.170 5* (+198) 10Note on circular reference loop < 1444916923 332532 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444917235 359312 :bender|!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 NICK :bender < 1444917600 349049 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, what's new? < 1444917600 527415 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: and read it over and i'll set you up? < 1444917613 551900 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, thanks, fungot! < 1444917613 730050 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: when i do that < 1444917673 649608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1444917745 708429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you know anything about this bug? < 1444917745 886574 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and i always hit the " up" where you don't < 1444917758 14713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Thanks, I guess that could explain it. Somehow. < 1444917758 532187 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: o o oo ( on a previous one, and there is nothing novel about it. i'm fed up. please, anyone, feel free to ask your direct supervisor first. then you get < 1444917768 460946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it's fed up. < 1444918249 303759 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-229-111.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444918815 924480 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qihybhdbjqimsqbv QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444919129 723944 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444919227 378952 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yehzfywedcrtjhro JOIN :#esoteric < 1444919550 761430 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: cheer up < 1444919550 978726 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but then it just might < 1444919559 798619 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that's the spirit < 1444919559 977014 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the korean war must have been here to repeat ' i dispute your point!!! yow! < 1444919567 766796 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1444919567 944924 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1444919733 550837 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^c64 < 1444919751 28017 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1444919751 242759 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1444919759 849058 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1444919760 27293 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1444919763 701233 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird. < 1444919781 70704 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1444919845 2802 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style c64 < 1444919845 181090 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material) < 1444919856 238691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's not a good style, thanks mostly to formatting issues. < 1444919872 169699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How many channels did the SID chip have, again? < 1444919872 348938 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 200 data 3.08, 5.19, 3.12, 3.98, 4.24 2 < 1444919881 794919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 200?! I thought it was three-ish. < 1444919881 973352 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: for example, if you plan to use the listen address, this will clear the hi-res screen: 0,3,5,7 ( see page 108) or... best of all the frequencies below the cutoff. this label is merely a mnemonic device, and < 1444920056 58130 :bender!~benderx2@unaffiliated/bender/x-9459530 QUIT :Quit: Ping Pong Fuckout < 1444920653 672999 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you often dream of such things? < 1444920653 851331 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: call address: ffab ( hex) 65451 ( decimal). < 1444921348 839485 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What will that do? < 1444921349 54780 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: press play on cassette, even though the i/ o file will be printed for special display purposes, removing/ creating only the lower tones have had their volume cut down. < 1444921631 635498 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: at what rpm setting? < 1444921631 813807 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: call address: ffcf ( hex) 65514 ( decimal) < 1444921648 670202 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1444921971 358897 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444923400 988706 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1444924311 389287 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1444924682 898031 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :K-Lined < 1444925201 991724 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@2a02:2c40:400::1:6e46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1444925637 549322 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444925648 235682 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the name of that RISC-Set again? < 1444925656 957400 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.144 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that was invented for educational purposes. < 1444925849 809450 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picoblaze? < 1444925888 244160 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's been a few < 1444926229 890756 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444926281 326956 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444926798 892152 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@you.know.what.toasters.rocks PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use L3-C < 1444926810 851226 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@you.know.what.toasters.rocks PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least at UIUC < 1444926846 25128 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@you.know.what.toasters.rocks PRIVMSG #esoteric :we haven't go to it yet so I can't tell you very much about it, I can't find if it's risc even, but it probably is < 1444927093 860932 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1444927280 301542 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1444927839 741392 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Golfish14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44755 5* 03Sp3000 5* (+834) 10Created page with "Golfish (stylised '''Gol><>''') is a two-dimensional stack-based esoteric programming language by [[User:Sp3000|Sp3000]]. It was designed to be an extension of [[Fish|><>]], o..." < 1444927873 644709 :ineiros!~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-58c3fe-184.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444927923 996564 :MoALTz__!~no@78.11.179.104 NICK :MoALTz < 1444927963 665726 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Minkolang14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44756&oldid=44732 5* 03Sp3000 5* (+44) 10 < 1444929628 191612 :mroman!~mroman@160.85.232.144 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1444929628 368816 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444929947 565025 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444930074 123855 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fytptojeyffxmjgw JOIN :#esoteric < 1444931684 347150 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric! i'm taking a class at my local university called "automata and computability". we have to do a group project that connects to one of the topics covered in the course, which up until now has mostly been context-free grammars/languages and pushdown automata < 1444931701 756821 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the chomsky normal form, CYK algorithm, that kinda stuff) < 1444931727 348649 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious application is to do something parser-y. but that's so boring. we also touched on... well, turing machines and computability < 1444931731 516974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like our "Introduction to Theoretical Computer Science". < 1444931774 346571 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm idly brainstorming for cool projects you can make in a couple of weeks that will wow an audience? < 1444931939 784702 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-gjqqphuxdsevfrwk QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444931965 621429 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-eqpojqugtpxihxks JOIN :#esoteric < 1444931977 255301 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :at first we were thinking of doing something amusingly meta. like, using the algorithms from our course to implement a toy programming language, then use that programming language to implement another algorithm from the course, namely, one that shows that it's TC (a universal TM or something) < 1444932060 815280 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe there's something much cooler out there. i hear theoretical computer science goes pretty deep! < 1444932098 596703 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :implement a hyperbolic word problem solver? < 1444932110 729118 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk that's all the computer science i've done in recent years < 1444932130 664638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mauris < 1444932131 615113 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maur is the correct spelling < 1444932142 903827 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? shachaf < 1444932143 794824 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends. He hates bell peppers with a passion. < 1444932153 91618 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? maur < 1444932153 752557 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maur? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1444932155 367408 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? noooodl < 1444932155 763066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those sentences is true < 1444932156 148538 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooodl is the correct spelling < 1444932160 654415 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nooooodl < 1444932161 592832 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooodl is the correct spelling < 1444932164 843135 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? noooooodl < 1444932165 727737 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooodl is the correct spelling < 1444932194 205540 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this sounds like it will confuse an audience < 1444932196 330518 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's nooooooodl compensating for... < 1444932208 133414 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of second-year undergrads, mind) < 1444932214 863495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? noodl < 1444932215 961056 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl is the correct spelling < 1444932217 357664 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? nodl < 1444932218 279208 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nodl? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1444932237 663206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris, well it's just a string rewriting problem at heart but, uh, yeah < 1444932252 560779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have a hard time selling it to second-year cs students < 1444932375 832677 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i stopped giving a shit halfway through the proof it was computable, though the ending was v. funny < 1444932495 294282 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444932570 160124 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about automated theorem proving, < 1444932583 362914 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i have absolutely no idea how hard that is but my guess is it's actually very hard rip) < 1444932824 971896 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very hard < 1444932850 328316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually < 1444932873 411212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could knock something basic together, i dunno how you'd string it into a presentation though < 1444932899 304052 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever parts are easy enough are probably very unimpressive < 1444932990 591447 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is enough to implement the entire calculus of constructions for instance http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~suckfish/busy/reduced.c < 1444932993 560088 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "hi after weeks of hard work my computer proved that P AND Q = Q AND P" doesn't sound super cool (but it's really a little cool) < 1444933011 859588 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i know this thing (heeelp how does it work) < 1444933034 954645 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the verbose edition is here: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~suckfish/busy/busy.tar.gz < 1444933036 936370 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the c program that theoretically returns an incredibly large program? < 1444933046 587269 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only needed like 12 minutes to disprove a = b and b = c and a != c < 1444933060 183010 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it diagonalises across the entire calculus of constructions, yes < 1444933078 50005 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric := is pretty hard, really < 1444933148 353701 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of framework are you using < 1444933216 631128 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of "from scratch" in a cool way. we're almost finished implementing a bunch of algorithms from the course (in F#, which turned out to be a nice language for that!) < 1444933281 91265 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is a cool language for that :D < 1444933321 599458 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is this fol prover in prolog that is the abstract of a paper, the paper being the explanation of said code < 1444933562 585285 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i am very determined to prove one of the theorems in this book in a way that doesn't suck, but apparently you can only prove it in a way that kind of sucks < 1444933985 338455 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444934001 68255 :Effilry!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1444934102 448650 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1444935003 486709 :Effilry!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly NICK :FireFly < 1444935906 95264 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444936116 515018 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444936282 557023 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444936311 608403 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444936399 340372 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1444936542 466255 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Fish14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44757&oldid=44569 5* 03216.138.225.130 5* (-12) 10/* Quine */ < 1444936762 453391 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444936762 630362 :lleu!~gnomebad@cpc15-croy20-2-0-cust489.croy.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1444936762 630421 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1444937226 456024 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1444937349 909018 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonight's project: implement a concurrent data structure I went to a talk about this evening in Haskell < 1444938024 523987 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1444938539 304064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inspector Samms, please report to platforms 15 and 16." I wonder if that was code for something. < 1444938668 947580 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-- The announcement “Will Inspector Samms please report to the operations room” means a single fire --" maybe it was! < 1444939248 306707 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1444939409 282386 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@74-114-87-85.dynamic.asdk12.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1444939624 70576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Sands I mishearded. < 1444939910 316407 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1444939966 133384 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444940155 290685 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1444940167 444932 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1444941824 445376 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1444942201 143823 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fytptojeyffxmjgw QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1444943259 807038 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1444943607 232354 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1444943715 865487 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444943913 434763 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1444944323 765026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1444944325 288051 :gamemanj!~gamemanj@cpc8-aztw23-2-0-cust128.aztw.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1444944954 358055 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1444945223 130174 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1444945226 163060 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-66-163.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1444945390 846585 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1444945545 834874 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444945959 123441 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1444946135 809882 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444946168 903469 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1444946169 117356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1444946204 395229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'boilday < 1444946287 480770 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonsœrjan. < 1444946294 516807 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it rather be a poor boiled day? I mean, that has to hurt... < 1444946316 807840 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. always use sufficient factor hth < 1444946412 629658 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like being boiled. < 1444946427 395700 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( and again, good morning. ) < 1444946430 56266 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I much prefer stewed, or braised. keeps all the nutrients!) < 1444946439 390934 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bon matint-e. < 1444946510 986896 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, it's only a new day by the clock) < 1444946563 706182 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mapoles int-e back into today. < 1444946573 198971 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if I knew IPA (and how to type it) I'd transcribe the first part of the topic... < 1444946574 272613 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please stop being another day. it's bad manners. < 1444946596 896403 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that. I happily mangled the previous pronounciation. ^^ < 1444946701 936460 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :another day died; Bond killed it... < 1444946740 72339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[at least with some creative punctuation in that movie title] < 1444947035 108643 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: WORLDLY CHICKEN < 1444947116 204713 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444947335 336329 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444947352 61503 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Client Quit < 1444947374 454951 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444947454 177197 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444947591 401276 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es JOIN :#esoteric < 1444947851 790766 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1444948576 38770 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1444948710 286351 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444949023 544320 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1444949907 920816 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :今晩は < 1444950055 836074 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1444951149 453332 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1444951661 56467 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-217.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1444951786 454907 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1444951793 969226 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1444951815 796994 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1444951819 866710 :atehwa_!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1444951819 866826 :int-e_!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de NICK :int-e < 1444951944 322503 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-217.rentec.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 253 seconds < 1444951972 661873 :fractal!~fractal@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444952010 860658 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm... < 1444952090 354868 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444952090 354884 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-092-072-164-249.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444952099 294771 :PinealGl1ndOptic!~PinealGla@vps2.conus.info QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444952099 294869 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1444952167 304566 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@vps2.conus.info JOIN :#esoteric < 1444952175 337346 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444952262 940927 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of people I don't recognize < 1444952274 847569 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :digitalcold? PinealGlandOptic? Never heard of those guys... < 1444952277 770456 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or gals) < 1444952311 551956 :aretecode!~aretecode@64.120.6.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1444952319 130630 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aretecode is also new to me. < 1444952322 567339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: they've been around, idling. netsplits are weird... < 1444952331 603348 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Ah. < 1444952372 92409 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to start designing my ArbourDB software now. < 1444952383 951461 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the channel population fluctuates around 100, but I think we only have about a dozen people chatting regularly) < 1444952445 867370 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1444952624 59812 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird, isn't it? < 1444952637 415738 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am one of only a dozen people in the world who actually talks about this sort of thing < 1444952640 79182 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1444952643 737524 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel special :) < 1444953305 555653 :VictorCL!~VictorCL@67.pool85-50-174.dynamic.orange.es QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953305 732770 :gde33!kvirc@546A0B75.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953305 732832 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953305 732873 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953305 732892 :augur!~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953305 732910 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953305 732928 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953307 507590 :vifino!~vifino@tty.sh QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953309 219904 :FireFly!firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953309 396697 :staffehn!~quassel@2001:41d0:52:d00::1d3 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953309 396774 :erdic!~erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953309 396790 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953309 396805 :Lymia!lymia@magical.girl.lyrical.lymia.moe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953310 339523 :nchambers!nchambers@compilerdev.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953310 516270 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:647:4b00:63aa::f63 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953311 313344 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 640032 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817314 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sdvuaccthuefsokl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817483 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817553 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817617 :cnr!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817638 :diginet!~diginet@107.170.146.29 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817658 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817681 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817701 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817754 :aretecode!~aretecode@64.120.6.170 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953317 817770 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-217.rentec.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325164 :Hoolootwo!~Hoolootwo@you.know.what.toasters.rocks QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325214 :Gregor`!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325235 :SirCmpwn!~sircmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325278 :edwardk!sid47016@haskell/developer/edwardk QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325300 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325325 :glowcoil!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ftvwoeszsmokzksb QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325347 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325389 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953321 325484 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 19974 :perrier!~cinch@107.170.175.57 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 197270 :skarn!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 197285 :Alcest!~alcest@93.186.169.30 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 197299 :puckipedia!puck@irc.puckipedia.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 197312 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 397837 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953323 574730 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@vps2.conus.info QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 268192 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 268301 :shikhin!shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 445151 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 445175 :Adie!~Adie@ogdn-11-63.dsl.netins.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 445195 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 445255 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.default.hacksoc.uk0.bigv.io QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953325 445274 :haavard!freebsd@haavard.me QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953326 130653 :deltab!~deltab@cpc2-smal2-0-0-cust22.19-1.cable.virginm.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953328 48136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953328 48263 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 312995 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yehzfywedcrtjhro QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 313076 :MoALTz!~no@78.11.179.104 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 313092 :gniourf!~gniourf@pdm-l03.insa-lyon.fr QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 313106 :Deewiant!~deewiant@de1.ut.deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 313119 :APic!apic@apic.name QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 313132 :ocharles__!sid30093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ifdekqmgievmwrnd QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490116 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490254 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490390 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490411 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490433 :relrod!~relrod@redhat/relrod QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490455 :pdxleif!~pdxleif@ec2-54-68-166-10.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490476 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@86.89.119.147 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490499 :teuchter!choochter@nat/ibm/x-qpaowtdbdhtfrcai QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490520 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-164-249.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490563 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953334 490626 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953335 981564 :\oren\!~oren@ec2-52-2-213-98.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953339 852622 :Sgeo__!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695349 :ski!~ski@remote11.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695434 :hppavilion[1]!~Devourero@93-231-58-66.gci.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695452 :zgrep!~zgrep@zgrep.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695466 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-eqpojqugtpxihxks QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695519 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695532 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695586 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695612 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695709 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695722 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953437 695749 :rodgort!~rodgort@105.ip-167-114-152.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1444953490 927317 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :Ping timeout: 270 seconds