00:21:35 Did you define a ligature table in the font? 00:21:43 Maybe you have to do it? 00:29:47 It's supposed to contain one already. And the ligatures worked in Gimp with a locally installed copy. Of course I don't know what's in the Google webfont version. 00:30:51 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:35:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:34 -!- \oren\ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:48:20 -!- \oren\ has joined. 00:52:37 00:53:12 'tell hppavilion[1] http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/Games/monochess.html 00:54:05 oh well, looks like I can't remember which bot is which 00:55:14 doesthiswork: you want @ 00:55:21 not ' 00:57:05 ' must be ducanIdaho 01:00:31 @tell hppavilion[1] http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/Games/monochess.html 01:00:31 Consider it noted. 01:01:08 It would be fun to have an IRC bot that dispatched on tab 01:59:27 My brother had made up a puzzle of Hearthstone game; he has explained to me the rules of game so that I can know how the puzzle is working. As far as I know he has not put it into the computer yet, but it is written on two sheets of paper (he writes very large, unlike I write small) 02:00:30 I write large and messy. 02:00:37 zzo38: What do you think of Hearthstone game? 02:00:59 One of the odd things about it is that minion order on the battlefield matters, and minions can't be moved. 02:01:18 I don't really know; I don't play that game, but I know most of the rules of the game 02:03:15 The puzzle is as follows: 02:04:31 You - Priest, 1 HP, 10 Mana, 0 Deck, 2 Fatigue. Hand - The Coin, Flame Lance, Shadow Word: Death, Inner Fire. Play - Gurubashi Berserker [Divine Spirit, 7 Damage], Dalaran Mage [2 Damage], Auchenai Soulpriest [1 Damage], Mana Wyrm [1 Damage], Holy Champion [1 Damage]. 02:05:11 Opponent - Mage, 22 HP. Hand - N/A. Play - Sunwalker [0 Damage (due to Divine Shield), 2 Damage], Ysera, Malygos, Ysera, Malygos, Ysera, Malygos. 02:05:37 (The second page has the effect of all relevant cards and hero powers) 02:06:33 I don't remember what most of the cards do. 02:07:27 I can list all of them. Hero Powers: (all 2 Mana, 1/turn) Priest - Heal a character for 2 health. Mage - Deal 1 damage to a character. 02:07:49 It's too many for me to reconstruct it in my head right now. 02:07:57 I'm on a train and getting off soon. 02:09:00 Spells: The Coin - 0 Mana - Gain 1 Mana this turn. Flame Lance - 5 Mana - Deal 8 damage to a minion. Shadow Word: Death - 3 Mana - Destroy a minion with 5 or more attack. Inner Fire - 1 Mana - Set a minion's attack to its current health. Divine Spirit - Double a minion's health. 02:10:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FATE CHICKEN). 02:10:45 Minions: Gurubashi Berserker - 2/7 - Gains 3 attack whenever this minion takes damage. Dalaran Mage - 1/4 - +1 spell damage. Auchenai Soulpriest - 3/5 - Your healing spells and hero power now deal damage instead. Mana Wyrm - 1/3 - +1 attack gained whenever you play a spell. Holy Champion - 3/5 - +2 attack gained whenever a character is healed. Sunwalker - 4/5 - Taunt, Divine Shield. Ysera - Dragon 4/12 - Add a dream card to your hand a 02:11:12 (What a "dream card" is, is irrelevant here. I don't know what it is anyways.) 02:11:57 Your message was cut off. Maybe better to write it up somewhere with an HTTP address? 02:12:25 One of the annoying things about Hearthstone is that the cards aren't specified. 02:12:35 Sometimes you have to reverse-engineer their behavior. 02:13:18 Holy Champion - 3/5 - +2 attack gained whenever a character is healed. Sunwalker - 4/5 - Taunt, Divine Shield. Ysera - Dragon 4/12 - Add a dream card to your hand at the end of your turn. Malygos - Dragon 4/12 - Spell damage +5. 02:28:08 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:30:53 -!- Wright has joined. 02:36:24 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:58:07 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 02:58:36 -!- MDude has joined. 03:32:20 -!- mauris has joined. 03:46:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:47:42 I made up some compression scheme for DVI files; each page is compressed individually so that it can still work whether the pages are read backward or forward and even if some pages are skipped. 03:51:11 This looks interesting: http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/reflecting-bishop.html 04:03:21 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:26:08 I'm considering making a mathematical OS is Cosmos. Not for usage, just as something to do. 04:40:11 What cosmis? 04:40:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos_%28operating_system%29 ? 04:40:27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CosmicOS ? 04:46:22 Another variant relating to the bishop that I have heard of is "quantum bishops" where instead of going diagonally, it goes in both orthogonal paths to reach its destination; if either path is blocked then it cannot go, but it is OK if the diagonal path is blocked. 04:55:24 MDude: The first one 04:58:29 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:58:41 "expressing inheritence" -- why is that needed for a program meant to be sent to aliens? 04:58:48 Why do we want to beam Java to space? 04:58:57 http://cosmicos.github.io/ 05:02:37 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:02:58 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 05:03:17 -!- TodPunk has joined. 05:11:33 -!- scoofy has joined. 05:16:09 It's based on Scheme, actually. 05:17:03 What I'm wondering is why we'd send a legal iscense agreement to an alien that might have completely alien views on copyright. 05:19:10 THere's also https://medium.com/@McCosmos/a-treatise-on-cosmos-the-new-programming-language-905be69eb4af 05:19:27 WHich is a language someone might write an OS in? 05:20:36 You can write an operating system in C or in assembly language although others are also possible 05:24:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:29:01 -!- FreeFull has quit. 05:35:16 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:46:54 wait, there are two operating systems with names based on "cosmos", and neither is called "CosmOS"? 05:47:31 MDude: C is most common, or asm for older OSes (and the C-based ones normally have small amounts of asm); some more recent languages are possible to write an OS in, like C++ and Rust 05:47:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:48:19 Yeah, I know. 05:49:02 I was just saying that because it was another possible answer to my earleir question, even though hpavilion already answered. 05:50:23 Now I'm wondering why hppavilion is specifically making an OS using a specific existing OS. 05:52:08 The main thing you need for a language suitable to write an OS in is an ability to use it without a notable run time environment -- because you're *writing* one. :) 05:56:57 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDreeam. 06:05:32 MDreeam: I'm not making an OS in another OS, per se. COSMOS is an "OS Toolkit", like legos of OS design 06:05:54 -!- MDreeam has changed nick to MDream. 06:06:36 Ah, I see 06:11:48 Only Forth can syntax-highlight Forth, isn't it? 06:12:46 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 06:12:46 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:33:17 zzo38: Approximately, yes. As the meaning of a given Forth statement depends on the words in place in the current Forth environment. 06:44:40 there are some approximate syntax-highlight rules that will normally work, though, I think? 06:46:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:46:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:53:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:05:39 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:16:22 Taneb: whoa whoa whoa, a mention of NYHC on haskell-prime@ 07:16:48 Ah yes, Jose 07:21:00 Hmm, my github picture is quite old 07:21:05 I should take a new one 07:21:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:29:57 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined. 07:31:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:32:06 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 07:34:14 oerjan: I have a corpus of Arany János poems ready, because I used it to bulid a language model already. I have some other similar sized out-of-copyright collections of poems downloaded, but I'd have to process them. 07:45:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:47:22 However, I don't see why I would want to process anything more unless you teach fungot this corpus: http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/bibul.txt 07:47:22 b_jonas: i see. you may well have made my saving throw. a whole tribe, you can. 07:47:48 which is from an old snapshot of http://lolcatbible.com 07:54:35 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:22 However, it may be more difficult to build a decent language model for Hungarian than for English. There's all the conjugations and declinations going on, so you can't just match entire words. 08:01:27 You'd probably need to use one of those softwares that already have knowledge about Hungarian grammar to try to parse words and sentences, adn then maybe try to build a model from that. 08:15:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 08:56:29 -!- mauris has joined. 08:59:36 -!- mauris_ has joined. 09:00:33 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:33 -!- heddwch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:01:19 -!- heddwch has joined. 09:01:38 -!- mauris__ has joined. 09:02:28 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:03:54 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:04:51 -!- bender| has joined. 09:05:05 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:06:59 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:07:50 -!- mauris__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:24:19 -!- mauris has joined. 09:29:30 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:32:32 b_jonas: Or just use unsupervisedly-learned statistical morphemes and build the model on sub-word units? That's what we do for Finnish. 09:32:55 Although fungot's current babbling code is not going to be able to not put a space between each token. 09:32:55 fizzie: you! we wouldn't get to watch my intake. 09:33:07 (That's why it gets starting quotes etc. wrong, actually.) 09:39:35 fizzie: maybe. 09:41:49 ^style 09:41:49 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots* pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 09:42:15 ^style iwcs 09:42:15 Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts) 09:42:20 hey fungot 09:42:20 Phantom_Hoover: of all, the first one was a complete the binding the crocodile's jaws are tied us up and left us here! we're the last, die moment of triumph of fatherland a bavarian standoff, but with the balrog dead, you probably want the next time. goodbye. well, it is rocket science, i now restart the universe, a better universe! we choose only die fittest people of nigeria! 09:43:31 I don't really like all these crazy unsupervised training stuff people do these days. I prefer to teach computers the domain-specific knowledge that I already have. 09:44:47 b_jonas: Very retro. The deep learning stuff is all about not teaching them any domain-specific knowledge, under the assumption that we'd be teaching the wrong (or at least suboptimal) things anyway. 09:46:15 fizzie: it's not really retro. I mean, it's a significant part of my actual dayjob, which is totally not retro, but state of the art and gets obsolate every few years and synergic and all that fancy buzzwords. 09:46:28 Also, it actually works. 09:47:07 ...is there actually a critical funge98 vulnerability 09:47:19 Well, on the speech side, not doing it certainly seems to work better. 09:47:31 Taneb: Not really, and it would be a cfunge vulnerability anyway. 09:48:32 fizzie: Sure, it depends on the tasks. I have colleagues who do all this crazy automated learning and mattern patching stuff, and some of them even understand how it works and use it well. It's just that it's not what I prefer, and I'm sure it's often a bad idea. 09:51:49 fizzie: what was the issue? 09:52:08 b_jonas: mattern patching? 09:53:17 Probably some missing array bounds checking or similar I'd guess. 09:59:13 Taneb: Something like what b_jonas says. Some highly unlikely stack-stack operations might possibly under contrived enough conditions lead to arbitrary code execution. 09:59:44 I seem to recall a mention about integer overflow regarding some memory allocations. 10:02:47 !oeis 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 2378 5741 10:02:49 `oeis 1 2 5 12 29 70 169 408 985 2378 5741 10:02:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oeis: not found 10:02:55 do we have an oeis bot here? 10:04:50 http://oeis.org/A000129 10:10:52 we do 10:12:09 (yes, it's a famous sequence. you can tell because it has such a low A-number.) 10:16:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:17:36 b_jonas: I believe lambdabot has oeisiness 10:17:42 @oeis 1 2 5 12 29 10:17:49 Pell numbers: a(0) = 0, a(1) = 1; for n > 1, a(n) = 2*a(n-1) + a(n-2).[0,1,2... 10:20:51 Oooh, I have a lecture on Eodermdrome-like programming languages in just over 3 hours 10:21:12 Taneb: ok 10:24:14 nice 10:35:37 -!- boily has joined. 10:47:39 boilhy 10:51:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:51:28 hellørjan! 11:04:57 I always think that a lot of smbc-comics strips are similar to xkcd strips, though I'm not sure which one copies of the other. but today is the first time smbc-comics reminds me to a PBF strip: compare http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3881 with http://pbfcomics.com/262/ 11:05:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:05:50 I mean look at it, the circular design with three hanging feathers, they seem like exactly the same object in the two strips in different drawing styles. 11:07:30 they are dream catchers. you hang them over your bed to catch dreams, and the jingly bits (feathers, beads, jingly stuff) help the good ones trickle back into your head. 11:15:10 -!- bender| has changed nick to reichsbender. 11:15:49 -!- reichsbender has changed nick to respubilkbender. 11:16:05 boily: sure 11:16:34 -!- respubilkbender has changed nick to bender. 11:16:59 b_jonas: seriously. 11:17:22 (well, that's the intent, and that's what counts, eh?) 11:19:30 boily: yes, and it works in those two strips 11:21:38 * boily facedesks through his mechanical keyboard and punches a hole into the floor 11:21:46 yes. they do. 11:22:35 -!- heroux has joined. 11:28:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ANALYTIC CHICKEN). 11:37:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:49:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:52:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:56:36 -!- mauris has joined. 11:58:43 -!- heroux has joined. 12:02:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:09:03 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:15:20 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:38:02 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:38:58 [wiki] [[0815]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44594&oldid=37670 * 178.8.154.25 * (+35) /* Hello World */ 12:39:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:40:18 [wiki] [[0815]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44595&oldid=44594 * 178.8.154.25 * (+2) /* Hello World */ 12:42:21 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44596&oldid=44157 * 178.8.154.25 * (+140) 12:43:07 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44597&oldid=44596 * 178.8.154.25 * (+1) 12:47:43 -!- fractal has joined. 13:02:54 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:12:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:12:17 -!- teuchter has joined. 13:12:52 -!- tromp has joined. 13:14:55 -!- choochter has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:39:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:39:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:42:09 "difficult to read because of category theory" -- warning in the lecture slides applied to a textbook 13:47:34 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:03:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:12:00 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:26:01 Darn category theorists... all they do is write hard-to-read textbooks 14:26:12 and categorise things 14:33:35 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:39:10 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:43:08 `coins 14:43:10 ​checoin compiarcoin cractcoin arcalcoin cowellcoin obackoutcoin forecoin jehincoin dnrcoin iothetcoin juresolcoin belibecoin fromecoin breludeltopfncoin hevcoin quycoin mouslicoin dokcoin 254coin catucoin 14:43:28 `coins -w 8 14:43:29 Unknown option: w 14:43:31 `coins -l 8 14:43:32 ​validcoin datasets:coin --eng-1Mcoin --eng-allcoin --eng-fictioncoin --eng-gbcoin --eng-uscoin --frenchcoin --germancoin --hebrewcoin --russiancoin --spanishcoin --irishcoin --german-medicalcoin --bulgariancoin --catalancoin --swedishcoin --braziliancoin --canadian-english-insanecoin -- 14:43:43 `coins -s 8 14:43:44 Unknown option: s 14:43:46 `coins -d 8 14:43:48 ​tlocoin (L-T:coin 4)coin rookushkacoin (L-T:coin 1)coin budslhcoin (L-T:coin 4)coin vidalcoin (L-T:coin 0)coin bemoledcoin (L-T:coin -1)coin loqucedcoin (L-T:coin 2)coin vercoin (L-T:coin 1)coin azocoin (L-T:coin 4)coin 14:43:58 `words --help 14:43:59 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 14:44:09 `words --help | tail -n+5 14:44:10 Unknown option: n \ Unknown option: + \ Unknown option: 5 14:44:18 `words --help | tail +5 14:44:19 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 14:44:39 `words --help |& tail +5 14:44:40 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 14:44:47 `words --help |& tail -n+5 14:44:48 Unknown option: n \ Unknown option: + \ Unknown option: 5 14:44:52 :( 14:45:00 `words --help |& sed 1,5d 14:45:01 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 14:45:09 `words --help 2>&1 | sed 1,5d 14:45:10 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 14:45:17 oh right 14:45:24 `` words --help |& tail -n+5 14:45:25 ​ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger datasets more influential \ -o, --target-offset change the target length offset used in the \ 14:45:34 `` words --help |& tail -n+10 14:45:34 ​ word generation algorithm; use negative integers \ for best results 14:45:40 `` words --help |& tail -n+15 14:45:41 No output. 14:45:46 `coins -o 5 14:45:48 ​belopillarteercoin 14:45:57 `coins -o 2 14:45:59 ​stningcoin 14:46:13 `` cat bin/coin 14:46:14 cat: bin/coin: No such file or directory 14:46:16 `` cat bin/coins 14:46:16 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' | rainwords 14:46:34 `coins 20 14:46:35 ​wigthcoin lavoorcoin ignolocoin gincoin adacoin reposiecoin fbrcvcoin derfeighcoin trucccoin casurvacoin einhabacoin dorecoin speriacoin carcoin lavocoin mizzcoin izationcoin foleurcoin eranslycoin entcoin 14:46:42 -!- contrapumpkin has quit. 14:47:00 `coins --eng-1M -o 5 10 14:47:02 ​fracanahexamcoin penneationcoin coluedlocaticicoin sioneuburnoteincoin intryedwincouucoin wilheyncoin puratumquecoin coromieredcoin cautonagecoin uownediumfactationcoin 14:47:05 `coins --eng-1M -o 10 10 14:47:07 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:47:07 ​angealpebrocicoin gustfulladeauxcoin honsorcvicalumcoin ioxichtinardswortalcoin prinallylenchilledcoin werenglcsorcoin canamiddktopicantericucoin lastitionerabillycoin goretcompraylentcoin gustocqueenvolutedrivercoin 14:47:08 `coins --eng-1M -o -5 10 14:47:10 ​relrenccoin bosocoin xvhcoin unmecoin wclcoin sichcoin mniftcoin serencoin torcoin prpcoin 14:47:15 `coins --eng-1M -o -10 10 14:47:17 ​iaucoin gercoin ethcoin mattcoin rpxcoin concoin fricoin knfcoin percoin upportcoin 14:47:52 penneation-coin, in-tryed-win-couu-coin, wil-hey-n-coin, cautonage-coin 14:48:56 "ethcoin" sounds networky enough. 14:49:13 bosocoin 14:49:23 oh, and torcoin 14:56:37 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:00:03 -!- GoToTell has joined. 15:02:30 -!- bender has quit (Quit: [wait a sec]). 15:10:04 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-). 15:22:24 -!- fractal has joined. 15:25:20 -!- mauris_ has joined. 15:26:58 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:29:46 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:48:46 Oooh 15:48:55 I'm booked to see Tony Hoare next month 15:50:45 . o O ( so that fulfills a precondition; what's the post-condition of that step? ) 15:51:12 wrong Hoare though :P 15:51:35 or not. 15:51:51 Antony... Tony. Meh. 15:51:59 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 15:53:54 those are the same name, really 15:55:52 * oerjan remembers someone saying something recently about groups with 2 generators of order 3 being finite, but cannot find again (also i'm pretty sure that's wrong if only the generators are order 3) 15:56:24 Tony Hoare: Pro Skater 15:56:46 another early GG update 15:56:49 maybe it was longer ago than i think 15:57:11 int-e: i'm starting to wonder if seffie is not evil or something 15:58:19 or perhaps it's just a little sibling rivalry 16:02:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:05:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:06:42 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:16:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:21:39 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:25:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:27:57 -!- heddwch has changed nick to heddvvch. 16:27:59 -!- heddvvch has changed nick to heddwch. 16:28:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:29:57 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:30:18 -!- gamemanj has joined. 16:32:33 -!- JesseH has joined. 16:41:41 -!- lleu has joined. 16:45:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:57:41 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:16:10 -!- fractal has joined. 17:27:51 Put all cards from your graveyard on top of your library in a random order; you are not allowed to see the order. ;; Delve 17:28:22 zzo38: wouldn't that say "shuffle" somewhere? 17:28:34 -!- mauris has joined. 17:28:48 You could write it with "shuffle", but maybe not because you are not allowed to see the order 17:29:06 no, I guess it wouldn't be "shuffle" 17:29:19 because that would be confusable with "shuffle your graveyard to your library" which already exists 17:34:10 zzo38: also, wait, were you here when we discussed large finite loops and http://www.mezzacotta.net/magic/goldfish/ with ais a few days ago? 17:34:44 it was a bit dizzying to me (not in the sense of Dizzy Spell) 17:34:50 because of the huge numbers 17:35:13 we also mentioned infinite loops. again. 18:18:35 -!- heddwch has changed nick to can. 18:18:40 -!- can has changed nick to heddwch. 18:20:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:23:11 I think I was on here and could read what was being written on this channel at this time 18:28:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:37:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:17:45 \oren\: strange. depending on the browser I sometimes still get the problem where the hanzi on the fontdemo page don't line up to a grid. 19:21:04 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:29:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:54:28 -!- DominikC has joined. 19:54:42 -!- DominikC has left. 20:03:06 I do not consider it to be such a good idea to do line breaking in the middle of parts of a paragraph that are written in the reverse direction from the main direction of the paragraph. Use a block quote if you need such things. 20:27:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:30:28 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:40:23 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:49:37 -!- evalj has joined. 21:04:40 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:11:22 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:11:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:21:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:35:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:35:57 @let ljoin [x] = x; ljoin xs | any null xs = [] | otherwise = concat xs 21:35:58 Defined. 21:36:41 @check \xs -> ljoin (ljoin xs) == (ljoin (map ljoin xs) :: [Int]) 21:36:43 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 21:37:03 hah i'd forgot that example! time to edit my SO answer... 21:43:01 hm 21:43:23 @let kjoin xs | any null xs = [] | otherwise = concat xs 21:43:24 Defined. 21:43:47 @check \xs -> kjoin (kjoin xs) == (kjoin (map kjoin xs) :: [Int]) 21:43:48 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 21:50:37 how are they any different? 21:51:18 @check \xs -> ljoin xs == kjoin xs 21:51:20 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 21:56:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:56:40 I still want to see the EsoGUI 21:57:22 myname: oh those aren't different, i just realized i didn't need the specific [x] case if i'm not caring about bottom. 21:58:32 it is possible i've forgotten what the extra check was, anyway 21:59:01 myname: anyway, this is an alternative Monad instance for finite lists, that has the exact same Applicative. 21:59:04 hppavilion[1]: windows 8? 21:59:13 ah 22:00:09 myname: Wow. That was an amazing burn. 22:00:35 myname: By "EsoGUI" I mean an Esoteric GUI Toolkit 22:01:11 I think the Geometry Manager should do something like use the intersections of curves to position widgets 22:02:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:03:44 And the curves' significant points need to be based off of other significant points, the primatives being the midpoints of the edges and the corners 22:05:09 Well, the primatives will be the corners and a function to locate the midpoint of a line derived from two points 22:05:16 *primitives 22:08:43 Is it using Xlib or something else? 22:08:57 -!- boily has joined. 22:09:29 zzo38: I don't know how I'm going to implement it yet. I'm considering Tkinter canvases, but that'd probably be pretty inefficient 22:12:37 I'm designing the doc here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EVsJB5JIBcSDUjAx4kvr_-cP707Qqktg1Frcp-W4xhw/edit?usp=sharing 22:12:48 If anyone feels like providing their input directly. 22:15:46 -!- Wright has joined. 22:19:56 What would the best type of curve/waveform/whatever be to use for this? I need something powerful, where I can basically declare a widget's location as being at all intersections between two of these forms. 22:20:43 Fourier series perhaps? Probably not. Bezier curves are my current usage, but that seems a bit stupid, as they're more for graphics 22:21:29 Maybe use a geometry manager based on a hybrid between Polar Coordinates and the Golden Spiral? 22:23:56 No one? 22:25:16 https://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparator#rating wat 22:25:41 I have no clue what that means 22:25:47 All I know is that I don't like it because php. 22:26:12 What esoteric widgets could we use? 22:26:28 I'm trying to make this the INTERCAL of GUIs, designed to be entirely unlike normal GUI languages 22:26:42 right 22:31:23 [wiki] [[User:Hppavilion1/Esolang Adjectives]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44598&oldid=44580 * Hppavilion1 * (+534) Added classes 22:32:04 ais523: Do you have any widget suggestions? Things entirely different from how you've normally interacted with computers 22:32:12 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:32:34 hppavilion[1]: the basic unit of interaction should be dragging 22:32:44 dragging letters into a text box in order to create words, and the like 22:32:45 Excellent idea... 22:32:49 OK 22:32:52 That's good 22:33:06 Why not 3-point click-to-insert 22:33:19 Click a letter, click a node, click a final destination? 22:33:25 The node being a transformation thing 22:34:33 criteria is plural 22:34:54 izabera: Correct. Um. What were you getting at? 22:35:08 that thing on php.net should say criterion, i believe 22:35:15 I think it's criterium 22:35:22 Not criterion 22:35:24 english has a tendency not to care about that 22:35:32 hppavilion[1]: greek vs. latin 22:35:41 you might consider both correct 22:35:44 True 22:36:34 i'm used to -on in english but in norwegian kriterium is obligatory. well, or the entirely norwegianized kriterie 22:37:03 hm is the latter actually common... 22:37:07 ais523: On second thought, dragging as the basic unit fo interaction isn't quite esoteric enough xD. I mean, phones do that all the time. Dragging and tapping. 22:38:00 hppavilion[1]: well tapping normally takes precedence to dragging 22:38:04 True 22:38:08 you could add a rule that tapping something always deletes it, for example 22:38:13 How about mouse /releasing/ is used instead of mouse /pressing/? 22:38:15 which would be logical and follow no normal rules 22:38:25 hppavilion[1]: actually most dialog boxes in practice use mouse releasing 22:38:28 you just haven't noticed 22:38:32 open a random dialog box and try it 22:38:41 (hyperlinks, OTOH, are normally based on mouse pressing) 22:38:46 True 22:38:56 I have noticed that 22:39:08 ais523: they do, but only if the mousedown also happened there 22:39:17 Buttons don't go off until you mouse up, giving you a last-minute opportunity to change your mind 22:39:27 Perhaps mouse movement as the basic unit, without clicking? 22:39:35 Mouse movement, entry, and leaving 22:39:37 hppavilion[1]: look up "dwell click" 22:40:08 ais523: I think I know what that is. I have noticed that, as a matter of fact, I realize that syaing that is stupid now. 22:40:36 Toggle-click and mouse movement will be the basic unit 22:40:57 Click to enable a widget, move your mouse to interact with it, leave to undo 22:41:01 clearly your GUI should be cat-based hth 22:41:07 Click before leaving to finalize changes 22:41:53 So to press a button, you: Enter the button, click the button, move to the "On" area of the button, click again to keep the button on, leave to cause changes to be enacted 22:42:02 Annoying, but effective 22:42:08 (Effective at esotericness, that is) 22:42:58 you could also consider forcing the user to use the mouse and the keyboard at the exact same time 22:43:08 I need a cat. cats are fluffy. 22:43:19 i.e. no typing without holding a mouse button 22:44:05 You use different mouse button one for click on, one button for click off, one button for menu, two buttons at same time for delete, etc 22:44:45 forcing the user to type with one hand sounds funny to me 22:44:51 myname: That would be annoying because on some laptops that's impossible 22:44:55 I think 22:45:09 hppavilion[1]: i don't think so 22:45:16 even if it does: so what? 22:45:20 I know that I can't press too many buttons at one time on my laptop, and mouse click turns off when I press a button (which makes it literally impossible to tower in minecraft) 22:45:28 myname: The GUI is supposed to be Esoteric, not useless 22:46:01 it isn't useless if you cannot use it on "some laptops" (whichever that may be) 22:46:20 Maybe, if you left-click then you can type on it (if you left-click on multiple widgets then you can type in all of them at the same time) and if you right-click then it is cancel, might also be one kind of strange way to make them? 22:46:24 I think that if it won't work for everyone with compatible software, it counts as useless 22:46:38 -!- Wright has joined. 22:46:40 you can always put a mouse on your laptop 22:46:57 Forcing the user to buy new hardware to use something /also/ makes it useless. 22:47:19 like anybody would have no mouse at all 22:47:35 did you know you need a computer to programm in bf? 22:47:45 you cannot force people to buy computers! 22:48:02 PROGRAMMING PHILOSOPHY 101: If it won't work for everybody who has the right software, then it's useless for them, and you should treat it as if it were useless for everyone 22:48:12 myname: I don't have a mouse, I just use a trackpad. 22:48:24 My parents are divorced, so a stationary PC isn't an option for me. 22:48:49 strange philosophy 22:49:00 it will render linux as useless 22:49:15 because there are some laptops that don't work with it 22:49:41 it will also render windows as useless 22:49:47 basically every os is useless 22:49:54 as is every software ever written 22:50:04 divorce is #1 cause of laptop sales 22:50:10 Will FreeDOS work if the computer is a real PC though? 22:50:27 myname: "Who has the right software" 22:50:32 zzo38: doea freedos work on avr? 22:50:56 I don't expect so, unless you have a PC emulator on it 22:51:08 In python, is there a way to capture keypresses, even when a window is out-of-focus? 22:51:18 Or would I need to use a keyboard driver for that? 22:52:01 hppavilion[1]: well, my point is: for every software in existence there is hardware that will not fully work with it, therefore every software is useless 22:52:07 A real PC would be x86 anyways 22:52:17 I think that if it won't work for everyone with compatible software, it counts as useless 22:52:24 But if it doens't work than it's not compatible? 22:52:38 * hppavilion[1] facepalms at his own stupidity 22:52:45 Of course, of course 22:52:48 Wait, no 22:53:02 Do you expect to run TeX on a Nintendo Famicom? I don't expect. 22:53:03 I mean unles it's something like a language barrier. 22:53:18 zzo38: therefore, tex is useless 22:53:25 as is every irc client 22:53:42 cf. Pokémon plays Twitch. 22:53:55 My point is supposed to be this, and I was trying to express it poetically (which I really shouldn't do): Software should be designed to work on all computers that it /should/ work on. You can't leave out people with laptops, you have to at /least/ have an option to change to fix it. 22:53:59 But you can use a different IRC client or whatever for the different computer, I suppose. 22:54:14 If you have a way to connect Famicom to internet then you could probably make a gopher client for it. 22:54:42 hppavilion[1]: the option is to just buy a mouse for about 5 bucks or so 22:54:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FOUNTAIN CHICKEN). 22:54:51 And most computers can emulate the Famicom so even if you have a program only for Famicom you may be able to run it on another computer too. 22:55:17 myname: But if you make users buy other stuff for a software to work that doesn't seem to them like it should be necessary, they're going to get pissed off 22:55:26 (Of course no matter what you do you will not get all software on all computers) 22:55:51 hppavilion[1]: that is one big issue for software that will probably never be used 22:55:58 zzo38: Can you invent an IRC: The Puzzling? 22:56:05 I don't know how 22:56:12 One problem is that computers that can't handle as many button presses were made after software that required multiple button presses. 22:57:11 And I'd rather push for better keyboards by making software that uses them. 22:57:20 Fair enough 22:59:17 It's your GUI though, so don't let my opinion get in the way of your own priorities. 23:00:54 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:05:36 I was once working on making Z-machine implementation on Famicom, but I could not quite get it to work, and it uses an unusual mapper that I do not have an implementation of on this computer. 23:16:12 I don't imagine entering text with a controller is too nice anyway 23:17:57 It is using the keyboard to enter text 23:18:18 The program requires the keyboard. 23:18:58 Ah 23:19:17 zzo38: I wonder how difficult a Dreamcast implementation would be 23:19:23 There is a Dreamcast keyboard 23:19:43 I don't know much about Dreamcast programming. 23:24:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:33:47 If you can make C program on Dreamcast then it may be possible to port ZORKMID or something like that 23:40:07 Is the inverse of exponentation roots or logarithms? 23:40:15 Or is "Inverse" not applicable here? 23:46:33 hppavilion[1]: it's not directly applicable because there is more than one argument. It becomes applicable after fixing either the base (--> logarithms) or the exponent (--> roots). 23:46:51 int-e: That's what I thought. 23:46:51 hppavilion[1]: the left inverse and right inverse are different 23:47:01 so you need to specify which you mean 23:47:07 I just got python to do two different things: 23:47:11 (is there a name for functions where the two inverses are the same?) 23:47:14 1) Capture keypresses with pyhk 23:47:22 (binary functions, that is) 23:47:26 2) Send keypresses to the OS with win32com.client 23:47:35 ais523: is that weaker than commutativity? 23:47:39 Do you guys see what I'm about to do? >:) 23:47:59 int-e: I'm not sure 23:48:10 let's see… let l be the left inverse and r be the right inverse 23:48:40 err, I can't see any way this necessarily implies commutativity 23:49:14 ah right, ab = r(a)aba = l(a)aba = ba 23:49:22 wait no 23:49:35 because if it's not commutative I can't move the inverse from one end to the other 23:50:44 we also don't have associativity 23:52:57 do you guys know the land of lisp? 23:53:02 http://landoflisp.com/ 23:55:21 ais523: we also have clashing notions of "inverse" here; we started out with inverse functions... so if f is the binary function, we'd have g and h such that f(g(a,b),b) = a and f(a,h(a,b)) = b. (f(x,y) = x^y; g(x,y) = x^{1/y}; h(x,y) = log_x y) 23:56:56 (that raises the question whether g and h are the same if g(a,b) = h(a,b) or if g(a,b) = h(b,a) for all a and b.) 23:59:31 The latter choice makes commutative f work: If g is an inverse and we define h(a,b) = g(b,a) then a = f(g(a,b),b) = f(b,g(a,b)) = f(b,h(b,a)). 23:59:55 -!- doesthiswork has joined.