00:15:12 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:35 -!- pdxleif has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:36 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:15:59 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 00:16:20 -!- izabera has joined. 00:16:57 -!- izabera has quit (Changing host). 00:16:57 -!- izabera has joined. 00:20:45 -!- pdxleif has joined. 00:21:47 <\oren\> hello 00:25:38 helo 00:33:51 -!- izabera has left ("WeeChat 1.3"). 00:35:11 -!- izabera has joined. 00:36:01 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:39:35 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:55:43 `unidecode β 00:55:44 [U+03B2 GREEK SMALL LETTER BETA] 00:55:48 * tswett gasps. 00:56:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:57:49 Are there many esoteric languages that use biological metaphors like p-systems and membrane computing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_system 01:02:16 There may be a few biologicals ones 01:03:28 hppavilion[1]: You can change the CSS for your account on MediaWiki-based sites, it tell you how on the preferences menu 01:03:42 So you can do that to change that if you do not like the style 01:06:35 I use Cologne Blue with additional CSS rules to remove the sidebar and several other things, and making section numbers green 01:13:06 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:16:02 [wiki] [[Math++]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44325&oldid=44317 * DinoD123 * (+8) /* Pseudorandom Values */ Made less ambiguous and ugly 01:23:20 [wiki] [[Math++]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44326&oldid=44325 * SuperJedi224 * (+52) /* Pseudorandom Values */ 01:35:16 <\oren\> should I add Bopomofo? 01:35:51 If you are going to add other Chinese stuff, then yes you should unless you have something else to add first 01:37:55 It's mostly used in Taiwan, but it is certainly in use. 01:43:00 <\oren\> Ok I just finished katakana and I'm adding bopomofo. When I finish bopomofo I'll upload a new font file and demo 01:43:29 Did you add hiragana yet? 01:44:05 <\oren\> yes, yesterday. http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png 01:44:22 Do you know if the use of delve ability in Magic: the Gathering permits the use of mana abilities even if you pay entirely by delve? 01:44:29 \oren\: Ah, OK 01:44:37 Also do you know if any cards have both delve and split-second? 01:48:19 -!- adu has joined. 02:02:56 Y'know, I thought costs were paid *before* spells went on the stack. 02:03:22 <\oren\> they arent??? 02:04:45 Ah, nope. Putting a spell on the stack is the *first* step in casting it. 02:05:55 Then you specify various things, including the spell's total cost and how you intend to pay it—but Delve isn't taken into account in this part. 02:06:48 Then you specify specify targets. 02:07:03 Phyrexian mana is taken into account before you figure out total cost, so I would think that if you pay entirely by life then you cannot use mana abilities at this time but delve is different than that. 02:07:09 Then... you determine the total cost again? That doesn't make sense. 02:08:31 In any case, it goes on the stack in step 601.2a, then you calculate cost stuff in step 601.2b, then you determine the total cost in step 601.2f, then you may or may not be able to activate mana abilities in 601.2g, then you pay the cost in 601.2h. 02:08:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:08:48 The wording of Delve is: "For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana." 02:09:32 The same clause also states: "The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined. " 02:10:17 All of this implies that Delve does *not* alter the "total cost"; the "total cost" is just mana, even if you intend to pay it by exiling. 02:10:46 601.2g says that you can activate mana abilities "if the total cost includes a mana payment". 02:11:02 So, to actually answer zzo38's question... 02:12:07 zzo38: when you use Delve, you can always activate mana abilities as if you weren't using Delve, because Delve has no effect until after you've had the opportunity to activate mana abilities. 02:12:35 Ah, OK, I thought it might 02:13:49 <\oren\> Wait, does that mean I can cast an instant between a spell going on the stack and its cost being determined? 02:14:04 No 02:14:15 You don't get priority during that time 02:14:56 `learn Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. “Delve” means “For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana.” The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the spell with delve is determined. 02:14:58 Learned 'delve': Delve is a static ability that functions while the spell with delve is on the stack. “Delve” means “For each generic mana in this spell’s total cost, you may exile a card from your graveyard rather than pay that mana.” The delve ability isn’t an additional or alternative cost and applies only after the total cost of the 02:15:07 Good enough. 02:16:11 Oh by the way. 02:16:18 `loudly Hi djanatyn. 02:16:19 Hi djanatyn. 02:24:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:26:27 who's swedish here? 02:28:46 [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44327&oldid=42464 * Timwi * (+66) /* Features */ 02:28:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:31:41 I don't know if someone is 02:34:26 i need someone to teach me swedish 02:34:29 fast 02:34:46 olsner, Vorpal, FireFly, maybe i've forgot some 02:34:56 i can also do a little swedish in a pinch 02:35:52 [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44328&oldid=44327 * Timwi * (+5) /* Less-than and shift-left */ 02:36:07 (it's rather similar to norwegian) 02:37:12 izabera: 99% of swedes know english, i'm sure 02:37:30 in case it's for meeting or visiting 02:38:25 i need to learn swedish for secret reasons 02:38:45 it must be a fully fledged course, not just something that teaches me how to sing the caramelldansen 02:39:02 ok well i only want to sing the caramelldansen 02:39:15 XD 02:39:19 it wasn't that big of a secret after all 02:39:25 bah, you don't need to learn swedish for that, just do it phonetically 02:39:40 https://translate.google.com/?client=tw-ob#sv/en/caramelldansen 02:39:59 getting the pronunciation right might require some training 02:41:38 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 02:41:48 it means "the caramel dance" hth 02:41:52 oh 02:42:04 that makes sense... 02:42:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:42:58 iirc, caramell is the name of the band/artist/etc 02:43:21 izabera: http://lyricstranslate.com/en/caramelldansen-caramel-dance.html 02:43:26 I wonder if they've produced anything else 02:44:42 if you think about it, learning swedish would simplify so many things 02:44:45 like ikea 02:44:48 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:45:03 i would be able to go to ikea and know wtf is a poang chair 02:45:13 -!- Wright has joined. 02:45:27 and that's pretty much it 02:45:30 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:45:31 izabera: the names are pretty idiosyncratic even in swedish 02:45:32 no other reasons to learn swedish 02:45:37 -!- int-e has joined. 02:45:38 you'd mostly learn that the names have nothing to do with the thing 02:45:47 <\oren\> izabera: the most useful languages on the internet are japanese, chinese, swedish, and russian 02:45:49 some of them are actually norwegian placenames 02:45:57 <\oren\> also korean 02:46:07 i'm learning something 02:46:12 izabera: po�ng means point 02:46:15 oh 02:46:45 why would you name a chair like that 02:47:08 I wonder if they've produced anything else <-- wikipedia has a discography hth 02:47:22 https://translate.google.com/?client=tw-ob#sv/en/caramelldansen 02:47:25 no 02:47:27 wrong link 02:47:29 http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S79825193/ 02:47:31 ^ this 02:47:52 <\oren\> sweden appears to produce a lot of pop culture 02:48:22 izabera: what i've heard is that it's because the founder of ikea was dyslectic or something so hated serial numbers, so he choose random memorable words instead 02:48:32 ooh 02:48:40 *chose 02:48:50 <\oren\> Also the Swedish House Mafia 02:49:15 i guess they used up all the meaningful names 02:49:28 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:49:47 the color names look like place names 02:50:39 well i recall previously mentioned there was an ikea shark plush toy named BLÅHAJ, that was actually perfectly descriptive 02:51:10 so they're not _all_ meaningless, but most are 02:51:37 is there some kind of rule about uppercase in swedish? 02:51:44 no, just ikea 02:52:14 i think swedish case is pretty much like norwegian, which is pretty much like english but with very slight tweaks 02:52:19 -!- bender| has joined. 02:52:33 -!- Wright has joined. 02:52:47 how does this sound in norwegian? buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo 02:53:01 <\oren\> Dansa med os, clappa era hander, yor som vi yor te nagra steg at vanster 02:53:10 well you'd have to say bøffel instead, naturally. 02:53:40 no alternative verb meaning, alas. 02:54:07 swedish has bufflar as both the plural and a verb 02:54:10 \oren\: i ... think you have some spelling errors, and not just the accents. 02:54:18 buffalobufflar bufflar something something 02:54:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:55:46 <\oren\> ok apparently I spelled most of the above wrong. owell 02:56:08 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:56:29 <\oren\> hey sweden, why is your g pronounced like a y!?! 02:57:05 it's a sound change in front of front vowels. 02:58:10 english has inherited pretty much a similar one with many french words, it just doesn't have the ø 02:58:52 italian also has such a change 02:58:53 -!- \oren\ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:58:55 [wiki] [[Funciton]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44329&oldid=44328 * Timwi * (-2) /* List encoding grammar */ 02:59:04 what change? 02:59:19 -!- \oren\ has joined. 02:59:26 g being something else than a hard g in front of front vowels like i and e 02:59:41 oh yes 02:59:49 but we use ghi and ghe to make it hard 03:00:08 right 03:00:10 and gia gio giu to make it soft in front of a o u 03:00:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:01:10 in fact my own name had such a change at some point in it's path from greek georgios 03:01:27 *its 03:01:50 via swedish göran 03:01:54 oh does oerjan mean george? 03:01:58 oh 03:02:04 i guess it doesn't 03:02:33 well, same name, just different spelling and pronounciation 03:02:53 well it's _descended_ from george. and i know there's at least a swedish tradition of referring to St. George as Göran or Örjan 03:04:18 https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sankt_G%C3%B6ran 03:04:19 St George/G�ran is the patron saint of Stockholm or something 03:04:36 "Sankt Göran (Sankt Georg, Sankt Jörgen, Riddar Örjan, Georg den Helige, lat. Sanctus Georgius), " 03:05:10 plenty of variants 03:05:17 oho, J�rgen is also the same name 03:05:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:06:50 [wiki] [[Funciton/Fundamentals]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44330&oldid=34819 * Timwi * (+450) /* XOR and Shift-left */ 03:07:31 hm, time to sleep a bit, it's almost morning 03:07:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:07:41 [wiki] [[Funciton/Functions]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44331&oldid=34821 * Timwi * (+13) 03:08:01 why sleep now, you can sleep tomorrow 03:08:08 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44332&oldid=24766 * Timwi * (+573) /* Successor function */ Predecessor function 03:08:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:08:44 -!- Froox has joined. 03:09:03 "Sankt Göran är flitigt använd som symbol i Ryssland, egentligen Moskvas skyddshelgon, och återfinns bland annat i det ryska riksvapnet. Han är även skyddshelgon för England, Portugal, Katalonien, Litauen, Serbien, Montenegro, Georgien, Etiopien, London, Freiburg im Breisgau, Genua, Lod, Barcelona (Sant Jordi), Strumpebandsorden och scoutrörelsen." 03:09:04 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44333&oldid=44332 * Timwi * (-579) /* Subtraction, unary minus, absolute value, shift right */ Shift right is now in "Fundamentals" 03:09:15 that's a list of places he's patron saint of 03:09:43 [wiki] [[Template:Back]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44334 * Hppavilion1 * (+37) Created Template 03:10:07 hppavilion[1]: what now 03:10:20 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44335&oldid=44333 * Hppavilion1 * (-20) Set up template 03:10:32 oerjan: Sorry. It's a thing for subpages 03:10:52 It says "<- [[{{{1}}}|Back to {{{1}}}]]" (where <- is an actual arrow) 03:11:03 Oh, but the whole thing is in bold 03:11:09 we have subpages enabled on the user namespace, but not the main oe 03:11:11 *one 03:11:38 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44336&oldid=44335 * Timwi * (+1) /* Subtraction, unary minus, absolute value */ 03:11:40 Funciton/Basic arithmetic is a supgage 03:11:45 *subpage 03:11:50 Or is that called something else? 03:11:57 It's for whatever Funciton/Basic arithmetic is 03:12:17 -!- Froo has joined. 03:12:22 i mean mediawiki has an automatic system for those backlinks, but we haven't enabled it for the main namespace 03:12:28 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44337&oldid=44336 * Hppavilion1 * (-2) Fixed template 03:12:42 oerjan: Oh. 03:12:44 Um. 03:12:47 Awkward 03:13:11 i'm afraid it would break pages we already have (/// anyone) if we did? 03:13:29 Ah right 03:13:31 Well 03:13:39 It's useful for if you want to add it manually, I guess 03:13:47 I just /really/ like templates 03:13:52 they're /coooooooooooooooool/ 03:14:18 you're a c++ programmer now 03:14:31 Me? 03:14:34 Oh 03:14:35 Templates 03:14:37 Of course 03:14:52 ./wiki/ templates I mean 03:15:05 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44338&oldid=44337 * Timwi * (+26) /* Division and modulo */ 03:15:25 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:16:03 here's a sample of how it works in the user space https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/FurryScript 03:16:52 Ah 03:16:53 There it is 03:17:04 Someone should figure out what MediaWiki's computational class is 03:17:50 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:17:57 the only reason why it wouldn't be turing complete is because they have to have resource limits 03:18:36 oerjan: Not semantic mediawiki 03:18:46 Or ParserFunctiosn 03:19:04 ParserFuncitons 03:19:07 xD 03:19:07 i don't know all these technical details about it 03:19:14 i can barely write a template 03:19:23 [wiki] [[Funciton/Basic arithmetic]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44339&oldid=44338 * Timwi * (-243) /* Division and modulo */ update to newest version (with Starkov construct) 03:21:05 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:22:47 There are many other user subpages too, not only myself 03:24:02 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:30:39 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:31:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 03:31:34 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:31:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:32:23 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:35:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:36:38 Yay! 03:37:00 My λ-calculus lexer works on at least one test case! ("(λx.x)y") 03:38:06 Someone share in my celebration! 03:38:22 yay! 03:38:25 "Alone in Valhalla" would be a good name for a philisophical short story... 03:38:38 Or is it philosphical? 03:38:42 Does it even really matter? 03:39:06 I mean, words are just arbitrary patterns of letters (representing sounds) that we apply meaning to 03:39:32 And sounds are just the movement of atoms 03:39:49 And AFAICT from Relativity, movement is pretty much meaningless... 03:39:52 Shit 03:40:11 I'm getting all /(phil(i|o)sophical|.*)/ again 03:40:49 the outer ( ) isn't needed 03:40:57 izabera: Yes it is 03:41:07 Didn't you notice the |.* at the end? 03:41:24 i did 03:41:43 The point was that it is "philisophical" OR "philosophical" OR any other of the infintite possible words we could assign to it 03:41:52 Oh rihg 03:41:55 It isn't needed 03:42:02 Well it makes it more legible to me 03:42:47 And isn't that we can understand it all that matters? 03:43:03 * hppavilion[1] goes into another /(phil(i|o)sophical|.*)/ monologue 03:43:55 i think the point is that the target should understand 03:44:10 "we" includes both the speaker AND the target 03:44:21 The speaker needs to understand what they're saying, too 03:44:42 Which is why babies saying "i luv my mama" is entirely meaningless 03:44:59 BOOM! 03:45:00 I TURNED REGEX INTO RUINING BABIES! 03:45:01 assume you have a perfect translation software 03:45:12 OK 03:45:15 [wiki] [[Funciton/List handling]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44340&oldid=38011 * Timwi * (+11126) Updates 03:45:20 Ooooh 03:45:22 you can't speak french, your software can 03:45:25 Funciton list handling 03:45:56 -!- Melvar has joined. 03:46:04 the software translates your sentence, you say it and you don't understand it anymore, but the target does 03:46:47 izabera: But you understand what you're saying, assuming you can trust the soft- oooooh 03:46:55 So our brains are the software? 03:47:18 And it's a "Planes of Consciousness" argument? 03:47:37 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Timwi * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Funciton list functions dependency graph.png]]" 03:47:38 Where we may be experiencing two entirely different planes of reality? 03:47:42 well i didn't mean this but it makes sense i think 03:48:58 Whoa 03:49:12 "well i didn't mean this but it makes sense i think" 03:49:26 In a conversation about whether the speaker has to understand what they're saying 03:50:31 so meta 03:51:04 I think we just disproved ourselves 03:51:16 (Not proved ourselves wrong. Disproved ourselves.) 03:52:38 [wiki] [[Funciton/Functions]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44342&oldid=44331 * Timwi * (+151) Lazy-evaluated sequences coming up 03:53:50 izabera : hm .. , 03:55:33 :p thankies 03:57:21 [wiki] [[Funciton/Lazy-evaluated sequences]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44343 * Timwi * (+79171) Explanations coming up... 04:11:25 <\oren\> I've uploaded the new version of my font with katakana. I'm having... issues with bopomofo so they're not in the demo yet 04:12:06 do you use something like git for your font? 04:12:26 :t Fun 04:12:27 Not in scope: data constructor ‘Fun’ 04:12:28 Perhaps you meant one of these: 04:12:28 variable ‘un’ (imported from Control.Lens), 04:12:31 :k Fun 04:12:32 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Fun’ 04:13:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:13:36 <\oren\> izabera: No, I jsut upload it to my website 04:13:50 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 04:14:15 \oren\: why are things green? 04:14:52 \oren\: also some of the hiragana are bursting their bounding boxen 04:15:05 <\oren\> they are the newset characters 04:15:34 actually it's not just the hiragana 04:15:35 it's endemic 04:16:32 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png they don't seem to do that for me? 04:17:09 oh, petscii 04:17:47 <\oren\> oh shit I forgot I added more petscii chars 04:17:57 for me the top line of every character is replaced with a single-pixel black line 04:18:13 also your hiragana are really cozy even so Oo 04:20:09 <\oren\> there added to demo 04:21:21 <\oren\> coppro: web font support appears to vary widly between browsers in terms of pixel-perfection 04:21:53 ah 04:22:11 <\oren\> and even between versions of the same browser 04:22:27 <\oren\> firefox behaves different on windows versus linux for instance 04:23:00 <\oren\> At least terminal emulators appear to have much more consistency 04:26:38 <\oren\> now i'm gonna try to fix the bopomofo so i can add them 04:29:02 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:29:20 <\oren\> after that, i'll maybe draw the rest of the wide latin and make them not screwed up 04:33:20 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 04:35:14 [wiki] [[Funciton/Lazy-evaluated sequences]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44344&oldid=44343 * Timwi * (+3687) 04:44:14 -!- bb010g has joined. 04:50:23 <\oren\> hey, coppro, I changed the otf file, does this one have less glitches? 04:50:40 nope, it's the same 04:50:57 <\oren\> hm... 04:51:01 <\oren\> Owell 04:51:24 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:54:39 <\oren\> at least now I know how to make otfs that actually work on other peoples computers 04:57:35 <\oren\> why are my computers always the special ❄'s? 05:00:10 <\oren\> @tell b_jonas I've added katakana and bopomofo now 05:00:10 Consider it noted. 05:01:43 <\oren\> 'cos I'mma bad ㄇㄈ 05:05:36 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:07:37 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:10:38 -!- ^v has joined. 05:13:47 -!- blurelIse has joined. 05:15:06 -!- hkgit03 has joined. 05:17:30 last day at work 05:19:10 -!- bender| has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:20:47 <^v> hkgit03, D: hope you have another job in mind 05:21:10 Uhm well I am applying of course but got nothing so far 05:21:13 But I'm confident 05:23:31 <^v> thats good, im guessing you are applying for tech jobs 05:25:24 applying for programmer 05:25:38 <^v> im looking for one but i live in 'murica but nobody around here will interview high schoolers 05:25:46 Why is that 05:26:11 <^v> mostly because of their requirements 05:26:47 What do they require? 05:26:48 <^v> the high-paying ones really only accept people that have degrees 05:27:46 <^v> or internships through the colleges 05:27:54 <^v> and im not in college yet 05:28:58 I won't get the murrican school system very soon 05:29:54 <^v> which is kind of stupid, i practically have the same or better experience than most CS majors 05:31:03 hmm 05:31:28 <\oren\> Do you know C++? 05:31:43 <^v> yes, close to getting a certificate 05:32:18 <\oren\> good 05:32:43 <\oren\> C++ isn't really used much in school but a lot of companies use it 05:33:05 <^v> all im doing to get it is going through the week's material and answering all the questions on the test in one day 05:33:14 <^v> then waiting for them to let me take the next test, etc 05:33:38 <^v> a lot of startups are using Ruby now 05:33:46 egh 05:34:18 <^v> and they accept a lot of college skiddies 05:34:45 <\oren\> millions of lines of terrible code, coming right up 05:34:46 <^v> ruby and node.js 05:34:58 <^v> are the main two right now for startups 05:35:03 <^v> PHP is slowly slowly dying 05:35:07 <^v> thank god 05:36:03 <\oren\> At work I use C++ and a proprietary language 05:36:25 <\oren\> well, more like two proprietary languages 05:36:53 <\oren\> the C++ is a proprietary dialect 05:37:04 <^v> 90% of going from mastering C to mastering C++ is memorizing all the different uses for things in std and boost 05:38:25 <^v> \oren\, robomatter? 05:39:09 <^v> probably not 05:39:44 <\oren\> no. 05:39:51 <\oren\> I work for Soundhound 05:40:02 <^v> ahh 05:40:13 <\oren\> we don't do robots. yet. 05:40:42 <^v> robomatter is the creator of RobotC which is the fucking worst C like language in existence 05:41:02 <\oren\> but if someone builds a robot, they could use Houndify to make it voice-activated 05:41:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:41:30 <^v> ill explain, robomatter made their own VM and their own C compiler 05:41:45 <^v> let me look up the CPU our robots use 05:41:50 i always thought c++ is the worst c like language in existemce 05:42:30 <\oren\> clearly you've never had to figure out what the hell Objective-C++ is supposed to be 05:42:34 hppavilion[1] o7 05:42:56 Haye, hkgit03! 05:43:07 wtf 05:43:22 <\oren\> eaxtly 05:43:46 <^v> cba look up the model, its some ARM Cortex M3 with only 64k ram and 256k flash 05:44:00 <\oren\> I see 05:44:02 <^v> but the VM is insane slow 05:44:21 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:44:59 <^v> their C compiler is barely ISO compliant 05:45:40 <^v> arrays are physical pointers, rather than being their own type and decaying like they usually do in C 05:45:58 decaying? 05:46:02 <\oren\> yeah 05:46:12 What do you mean by that 05:46:20 <^v> hkgit03, say in C you declare a array 05:46:27 <\oren\> you can use an array's name as if it were a pointer to the first element of the array 05:46:27 <^v> char potato[16]; 05:46:43 -!- mauris has joined. 05:46:49 <\oren\> himauris 05:47:04 <^v> you can implicitly cast potato as a char* 05:47:25 Is that a cast? I thought it implicitly was nothing but a char* 05:47:42 <^v> yeah 05:47:44 hioren 05:47:47 <\oren\> no because sizeof(potato) is still 16 05:47:47 so that char potato[16] would be the same as char* potato = (char*)malloc(16); 05:48:08 <\oren\> and arrays are allocaed on the stack not the heap 05:48:18 wait what 05:48:21 <^v> hkgit03, pretty much but obviously it gets freed as the stack unwinds 05:48:37 you mean the array pointer is on the stack? 05:48:49 <\oren\> no the array data is ont he stack 05:48:53 <^v> no the physical bytes are on the stack 05:49:00 what sense does that make 05:49:11 <^v> well when you want to pass potato to a function 05:49:12 cannot get random array access into this context.. 05:50:02 <\oren\> the stack isn't accessed like a stack in C 05:50:16 Aren't we talking about the C stack? I thought we were 05:50:22 <\oren\> right 05:50:36 <^v> the main issue of their compiler though, if you mess up brackets 05:50:43 <^v> you get an error on an unrelated line 05:51:08 <^v> and in some cases, a missed semicolon messes up the brackets 05:51:19 <^v> and you get an unrelated error at the bottom of the file 05:51:25 hkgit03: of course it's on the stack. that's why it is such a mess to return an array 05:51:28 @tell edwardk I notice you haven't uploaded a new constraints to hackage 05:51:28 Consider it noted. 05:52:48 <^v> also there is no linker 05:53:04 <^v> the linker has been a request for over 5 years now 05:53:12 <\oren\> so you have to compile the whole program at once? 05:53:17 <\oren\> shiiiit 05:53:39 <^v> yes, you have to do #include "poop.c" 05:53:42 sounds like c++ 05:54:04 <^v> myname, xD c++ is the opposite, i feel like i split things into files way too often 05:54:27 well, yes, you can split into files 05:54:31 but that's it 05:54:34 <\oren\> myname: well yeah, but at least c++ can use namespaces 05:55:03 <^v> c++ namespaces are my savior on my latest robot project 05:55:03 <\oren\> whereas here he has to make sure every name is unique throughout the progrem 05:55:18 <^v> well i dont use RobotC 05:55:44 <^v> there is a open-source Free-RTOS based OS for the robots called PROS 05:55:51 <^v> its gcc/g++ based 05:55:57 <^v> which is great 05:57:26 <\oren\> the typical C equivalent to a namespaced function is a static function 05:57:27 <^v> im decent with arm/thumb so inline asm is extremely useful in some cases 05:58:33 <^v> until about 2 years ago in RobotC ints were 16 bit and longs were 32 bit 06:07:58 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzek-QEc0o 06:08:35 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:09:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:11:55 -!- heroux has joined. 06:14:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:16:39 <^v> \oren\, i only listen to chiptune 06:17:38 <\oren\> no liek Ｊコア? 06:25:53 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:44:17 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:02:49 \oren\: ok 07:05:02 \oren\: oh great, the web font version works now! I swear I tried it yesterday evening and it didn't yet work. 07:05:18 I'm glad you didn't break it forever 07:10:36 <\oren\> Yeah I was doing something wrong before when making the otfs 07:10:59 <\oren\> not exacly sure what 07:11:13 oh good! 07:12:41 <\oren\> so yeah now there is all the kana and also bopomofo 07:13:20 <\oren\> tomorrow I'll add the full wide ascii set and maybe a few kanji 07:17:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:17:25 <\oren\> I should also add at leat that one hangul sylable that looks like a stick figure 07:18:00 \oren\: are you going to auto-generate the ten thousand korean syllables from constituents? you'd just need to draw the letters in a couple of different sizes, the composition tables to drive it, some simple rules to choose the sizes from the letters (from whether there's a final, and from what shape the medial is), and a perl script to drive and compose the bitmaps and write a bdf. 07:18:18 \oren\: be sure to add the common Japanese punctuation 07:18:22 fullwidth I mean 07:19:22 @tell oerjan mostly because i'm not very happy with the new forall 07:19:22 Consider it noted. 07:20:55 <\oren\> I've got the fullwidth Japanese comma and period already done, but I'll wait until I finish the whole group they're in before I add to the demo 07:24:23 s/tables/rules/ because it's so long the decompositions aren't even listed in the long tables in ICU, but instead decomposed on the fly by the code, implemented in icu/icu/source/common/normalizer2impl.{h,cpp} 07:32:20 \oren\: sure, I don't mean only the period, but also some of the more tricky ones, like quotation marks, parenthesis, and the rare tilde thingy 07:32:33 and whatever else there is 07:41:31 -!- glowcoil has quit (K-Lined). 07:41:31 -!- ocharles__ has quit (K-Lined). 07:41:31 -!- edwardk has quit (K-Lined). 07:41:31 -!- bb010g has quit (K-Lined). 07:41:32 -!- mbrcknl has quit (K-Lined). 07:46:54 wtf. configure help says '--enable-stage1-languages[=all] choose additional languages to build during stage1. Mostly useful for compiler development' 07:47:02 I'm configuring gdb, not gcc, what the heck is with you? 07:49:43 <\oren\> Ok, I'mma upload the font again, because I've finished wide ascii 07:51:45 -!- edwardk has joined. 07:52:46 \oren\: the font only, or also the demo? 07:55:25 <\oren\> updated the demo now 07:55:41 <\oren\> at the bottom, wide ascii 07:58:23 <\oren\> ＡＢＣＤＥＦＧＨＩＪＫＬＭＮＯＰＱＲＳＴＵＶＷＸＹＺ 07:59:00 ok, I got answer to my question on #gdb 08:00:22 \oren\: looks good, they match the normal ascii well 08:00:38 <\oren\> should i also put into the demo page the 12 or so chinese characters included?> 08:00:49 it's not urgent 08:01:49 -!- hkgit03 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 08:01:50 argh, I forgot this. you never know which of "make test" and "make check" do tests. sometimes one of them is a plain error, sometimes one is a nop and the other does tests, and sometimes they run a different set of tests. 08:06:42 <\oren\> there's the chinese in the demo. 08:07:31 <\oren\> 一丁丂七丄丅丆丈三上下不且世个中串主九了事二人 08:07:36 \oren\: great 08:08:16 \oren\: aren't they supposed to be green though? 08:08:43 <\oren\> Oh good point, 08:08:58 <\oren\> and I should remove green from the older green ones 08:12:41 \oren\: I'm missing 日 , 月 , 門 , 口 , which seem quite common, and some more numbers 08:12:49 \oren\: and the punctuations of course 08:13:04 <\oren\> Oh, right. punctuation 08:16:26 <\oren\> there 08:17:09 <\oren\> 々 isn't really punctuation but it's in that range 08:18:13 <\oren\> yeah many common kanji I haven't drawn yet. I'll draw more tomorrow 08:21:31 \oren\: will you later do two glyphs for the punctuation that changes between left-to-right and right-to-left arabic context, and two glyphs of the Japanese and Chinese punctuation that sometimes changes between horizontal and vertical writing (and sometimes depend on language too)? 08:22:24 <\oren\> I can do that 08:22:48 <\oren\> I'll put it in my todofile 08:23:03 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 08:23:51 \oren\: in particular, there's a vertial variant of the katakana long vowel sign, and vertical variants of the Japanese full stop and comma that I think might have language-dependent rules, and vertical variants of the Japanese quotation marks 08:24:25 \oren\: arabic stuff might not be worth because you won't be supporting it with this font, but you are planning to support Japanese text 08:24:38 I don't know the detailed rules about these and how common they are, you'll have to look it up 08:24:50 -!- hkgit03 has joined. 08:24:56 they might also depend between ltr and rtl vertical columns 08:25:00 I don't know 08:25:11 the kanji you added look good to me though 08:25:13 nicely drawn 08:25:21 I have to go now 08:25:33 <\oren\> in practice I think japanese and chinese simply use fonts with rotated gyphs 08:25:39 I got some fails from the gdb make check, but I think at least some of them are because I have too old version of libc here 08:25:41 <\oren\> usually called @fontname 08:25:57 <\oren\> 04:21 < b_jonas> \oren\: will you later do two glyphs for the punctuation that 08:25:57 <\oren\> changes between left-to-right and right-to-left arabic 08:25:57 <\oren\> context, and two glyphs of the Japanese and Chinese 08:25:57 <\oren\> punctuation that sometimes changes between horizontal and 08:25:57 <\oren\> vertical writing (and sometimes depend on language too)? 08:26:02 \oren\: sure, when you're using software that doesn't have enough support for this kind of stuff 08:26:11 glyph variants and all that 08:26:15 <\oren\> shit stupid middle click paste 08:26:50 -!- zadock has joined. 08:27:02 and then you get hard to read Japanese text in Chinese font, or Serbian/Macedonian text in Russian font (I still say those should have been two different SCRIPTS in unicode, not one cyrillic script, but politics overrode that and it's way too late to change now with all the existing corpus) 08:27:18 <\oren\> I have for exaple @MS Gothic which shows all japanese charatcers sideways 08:27:55 <\oren\> so you print it normally and then turn the page physically 08:28:02 \oren\: ouch 08:28:38 I have to go now 08:28:44 <\oren\> bye 08:28:47 -!- zadock has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:33:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:46 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 08:35:58 -!- augur has joined. 08:35:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:40:07 -!- Melvar has joined. 08:47:06 -!- bender| has joined. 08:56:19 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:00:32 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:32 -!- heddwch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:33 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:01:01 -!- heddwch has joined. 09:01:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 09:01:47 -!- mihow has joined. 09:03:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:03:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 09:03:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:13:35 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:23:50 Why does the esolang wiki have lemons as logo anyway? 09:23:54 I never asked that before 09:24:26 hkgit03: they're limes 09:24:47 Whatever. Why limes? 09:27:13 they're esoteric limes 09:27:31 Which means? 09:27:52 you summon the devil when you squeeze them? idk 09:28:14 -!- mihow has joined. 09:28:16 I think the devil is mainstream 09:28:39 maybe the ghost of Winston Churchill 09:29:25 Did you put the limes there 09:29:42 Ah, the trilime. 09:29:49 That's what it's called, I believe. 09:30:11 So what does it mean? 09:30:25 As I understand it, the matrix of solidity. 09:30:50 what 09:32:25 It's origins have kind of been lost in time. 09:32:48 Like origins of most esoteric things, I presume 09:32:57 That must be why 09:33:10 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2012-03-19#015027Maharba some discussion 09:33:50 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:34:05 blocked by workplace firewall, but I'll read it eventually 09:34:30 Just as a note of caution, you won't find any answers there, just questions. 09:34:48 But the "trilime" term is fairly well established, at least. 09:34:56 I see 09:36:02 I once suggested http://zem.fi/~fis/trilime.svg as a replacement, but it wasn't really appreciated. 09:36:34 lel 09:37:04 yeah uhm it doesn't raise questions as much as the original trilime 09:37:30 I guess you could say that the reasons for the trillime are esoteric 09:37:51 That's what I meant 09:38:41 When life gives you limes, make esolangs. 09:38:58 Is there no backup of the BF Operating System Bootloader? 09:39:09 `addquote When life gives you limes, make esolangs. 09:39:11 1255) When life gives you limes, make esolangs. 09:46:41 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 09:47:54 -!- glowcoil has joined. 09:48:23 -!- mihow has joined. 09:53:59 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:56:13 Lunchtime. Gotta go 09:57:46 -!- hkgit03 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 09:58:19 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 10:01:15 -!- sc00fy has joined. 10:03:55 -!- bb010g has joined. 10:08:14 -!- mihow has joined. 10:13:46 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:59 -!- sc00fy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:28:15 -!- mihow has joined. 10:34:19 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:34:19 -!- boily has joined. 10:48:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:49:18 -!- mihow has joined. 10:54:15 `wisdom 10:54:16 ostrich/Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces. 10:54:17 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:00:56 -!- mihow has joined. 11:02:00 lol 11:05:01 -!- hkgit03 has joined. 11:06:02 `wisdom 11:06:04 wise/Uninstalling software installed by the Wise Installation Wizard is unwise. It's neither clockwise nor counterclockwise nor otherwise. 11:06:20 `wisdom 11:06:21 monoid/Monoids are just categories with a single object. 11:06:33 well at least they are isomorphic 11:12:36 `? category 11:12:37 Categories are just a special case of bicategories. 11:13:29 `culprits wisdom/wise 11:13:31 oerjan int-e shachaf 11:13:36 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:14:34 bellonder|, FirelloFly, fizziello. 11:18:50 hoily 11:19:59 Oil of by. 11:20:45 `? boily 11:20:46 boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 11:21:08 I see 11:21:45 fizzie: I use http://www.soloestetica.it/Ingrandimenti5/FA_1813.jpg 11:22:34 `? fizzie 11:22:35 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 11:22:53 dammit, workplace proxy 11:23:30 Content-Type: application/binary 11:23:37 that's not going to be helpful 11:23:45 Yes, it'll probably just download the file. 11:25:05 hkgit03: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg is a regular image, if that helps. It's not all that exciting to look at, however. 11:25:32 I guessed that it's an image, thank you. 11:25:44 I just rant about the workplace proxy in general 11:26:27 Oh, I assumed it was objecting to the application/binary type, as possibly implied by int-e. 11:26:45 That's one strict proxy you've got there. 11:26:56 The dropbox url works fine 11:27:16 And normally, if you use it to browse sites for work purpose, even if they seem to be private, they are not blocked 11:27:51 This proxy knows what I'm up to, it has a built-in mind reader which determins my intention and blocks stuff that keeps me from working. 11:28:07 Possibly it just has something against codu.org. 11:28:19 NO it MUST be the mind reader 11:28:36 disbeliever 11:28:51 -!- mihow has joined. 11:29:07 Yes, it has something against codu.org, nothing from that site worked so far iirc -_- 11:29:21 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 11:30:11 hkgit03: you should try the PDF in the /topic. 11:30:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EXPANDING CHICKEN). 11:30:34 I did, it worked. 11:30:59 I remember reading that for the first time two years ago. I like it. 11:35:33 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:41:50 -!- hkgit03 has quit (Quit: this). 11:42:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:46:13 -!- mihow has joined. 11:50:07 -!- ocharles__ has joined. 11:52:42 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:54:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:01:13 -!- mihow has joined. 12:05:50 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:08:24 -!- mihow has joined. 12:14:00 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:15:57 -!- mihow has joined. 12:20:53 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:25:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:28:27 -!- mihow has joined. 12:34:25 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:44:41 -!- age_none has joined. 12:45:48 hmm, I am of the opinion that hppavilion[1] is interpreting the esowiki as performance art 12:45:53 which may well be the bast attitude to it 12:46:06 -!- mihow has joined. 12:52:46 -!- age_none has left. 12:53:25 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:00:53 -!- mihow has joined. 13:08:20 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:09:12 -!- mihow has joined. 13:10:26 at lest he doesn't post lame languages and write yet another bot, i'm fine 13:13:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:14:22 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:16:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:23:17 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:23:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:28:33 -!- mihow has joined. 13:33:39 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:48:52 -!- mihow has joined. 13:54:24 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:56:48 `? boxmodel 13:56:49 boxmodel is how we figure out how big Taneb's cage is going to be. 13:56:53 Where the hell did that come from 13:57:02 `culprits boxmodel 13:57:03 No output. 13:57:08 hmm, I've forgotten the command 13:57:11 that checks wisdom history 13:57:17 `cat bin/wisdom 13:57:18 F="$(find wisdom/*"$1"* -type f | shuf -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/" | rnooodl; cat "$F" | rnooodl 13:57:34 `cat bin/learn 13:57:35 #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^$an\?\|the$ //;s/s\? .*//') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "Learned '$topic': $1" 14:08:37 -!- mihow has joined. 14:12:23 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:14:19 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:16:27 `? bicategory 14:16:28