00:11:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:16:34 -!- Lyka has joined. 00:16:39 ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++. 00:17:04 !bf . 00:17:04 No output. 00:17:11 !bf ++++++++[>++++[>++>+++>+++>+<<<<-]>+>+>->>+[<]<-]>>.>---.+++++++..+++.>>.<-.<.+++.------.--------.>>+.>++. 00:17:12 Hello World! 00:17:13 Sgeo_: !bf doesn't logread 00:17:24 ais523, I was testing if that was the correct command 00:17:30 It's one of them. 00:17:31 also, it's the return of Schrödinger's Cat! 00:17:37 there are a few that work 00:17:39 meow 00:17:45 I forget what settings !bf uses 00:17:55 I think 8-bit cells and [something]. 00:18:04 Lyka: the thing is we couldn't exactly check if you were alive or not, for fear it would kill you 00:18:32 Yes, 8. 00:19:02 All of !bf, !bf8, !bf16 and !bf32 call into the same script, which sets BW from the command name, defaulting to 8, and then calls egobfi$BW. 00:19:31 !bf ++++[>++++++++<-]>+>-[<.>-] 00:19:32 ​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 00:19:44 should be 256 exclamation marks there in an 8-bit wrapping impl 00:19:59 (it'll measure the cell size in other impls too, but that'd be too many exclamation marks to fit onto one line) 00:20:02 err, not 256, 255 00:20:06 And egobfi defaults to EOF-0, wrapping (actually, "wrappong", according to the README). 00:21:07 fizzie: did I tell you I made a BF implementation which saturates at -1 going downwards, has bignums going upwards, and uses -1 for EOF? 00:21:19 * Lyka wishes she understood at least half of what you talk about here 00:21:24 that doesn't run because it's written in an unimplemented language and compiles into another unimplemented language? 00:21:25 wrappong is a version of pong where, if your opponent misses, the ball wraps around, and the score isn't affected. 00:21:30 It's kind of like zen pong. 00:22:43 ais523: No, but it sounds like an interesting choice. I guess you can clear any cell with something like [--+]? 00:23:00 -!- Wright_ has joined. 00:23:01 +[-]-+ works 00:23:11 but [--+] is shorter, come to think of it 00:23:18 Possibly less efficient. 00:23:33 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:23:45 The "two steps forward, one step back" method. Or maybe it's the other way around. 00:24:23 !bf8 .[+.] 00:24:24 No output. 00:24:37 Lyka: what did you expect that to do? 00:24:39 I think you want one initial + there. 00:24:52 current tape element starts at 0, then the loop doesn't run because outputting it doesn't change the value 00:24:55 !bf8 .+[.+] 00:24:56 No output. 00:25:15 fun fact: that BF program is the main reason that this channel is +C 00:25:29 i do not understand 00:25:35 And I think outputting a 0 might cut the output short on EgoBot. 00:25:36 it could be that EgoBot can't output NUL 00:25:41 !bf8 +[.+] 00:25:41 ​......... \ ..................... !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ 00:25:45 yep, that's it 00:25:50 NUL is used as "end of string" by many languages 00:26:10 Which is a scow convention, by the way. 00:27:53 ^bf ,....>.<....!same here 00:27:53 ssss 00:28:11 If I recall correctly, that's the STRN fingerprint using 0 as a terminator. 00:28:23 hmm, Wiktionary defines "scow" as "A large flat-bottomed boat, having broad, square ends.", plus a verb "To transport in a scow." 00:28:28 neither of these meanings seem relevant 00:28:51 -!- Lyka has left. 00:28:53 now I want to try thutubot but don't think it /has/ a BF interp 00:29:01 pikhq knows what it means. 00:29:47 yep, just Underload and Haskell 00:30:51 It's true, I know what it means. 00:30:56 Scow means scow. 00:31:23 "Anagrams: cows" 00:31:37 Scow as in "garbage scow" 00:31:48 "the scow of X" is something like the worst specimen of X 00:32:59 pikhq: I'm curious whether the word "victory" has made its way into the lexicon. 00:33:16 Probably it wouldn't happen before the next sauzzle. 00:33:18 I've not heard it. 00:33:54 Although the next sauzzle is never very far away... 00:34:31 For now, I am deeply contemplating a nap. 00:35:23 I was going to say "well 'victory' is actually a real word", but so is 'scow', I guess 00:39:24 Why am I insufficiently sleeped? 00:40:57 ais523: Would you say "sauzzle" is a real word? 00:41:19 shachaf: it's not one I'm aware of 00:41:33 You might be more familiar with an alternate spelling and tense. 00:42:07 I hear "sozzled" is common in the UK. 00:44:23 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:08:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:14:12 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:19:10 shachaf: yes, that's common in the UK 01:44:20 -!- grotewold has joined. 01:55:53 ais523: at my school, your degree is not officially awarded until the ceremony 01:55:59 same here I think 01:56:15 you can get it awarded early only if you have an actual need, such as to get a visa 01:56:26 (to get a US visa, the customs officials must see your actual diploma) 01:57:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:59:11 coppro: hmm, you need a PhD to visit the US nowadays? 02:02:48 ais523: No, but certain visas may require proof of your education. 02:02:49 ais523: on a TN work visa, which requires a degree 02:03:12 If you just want to visit and you're from the UK, you just show up. 02:03:15 they won't accept "this person is confirmed to get a degree on such-and-such date", they need the actual degree 02:03:25 pikhq: don't you need to sign up for a visa waiver dealie in advance now? 02:03:32 I thought only canadians could just show up now 02:04:02 coppro: WTF really? 02:04:03 I know a Brit who visited the US recently 02:04:08 I hate US immigration even more now. 02:04:09 and had to fill out a bunch of forms online in advance 02:04:15 meanwhile, when I visited Canada 02:04:23 I was allowed to just turn up, but I had to fill out forms while on the plane 02:04:29 and was given a short interview by border control when I arrived 02:04:34 coppro: whoa whoa whoa, you're moving to the US? 02:05:26 shachaf: I don't think coppro has implied that? 02:05:42 Canada will be the same as of next March apparently 02:05:42 He hasn't. 02:05:54 I guess "whoa whoa whoa" has multiple meanings. 02:06:24 for Canada, it's an online thing that according to the government website is usually approved within minutes, and the total cost is $7 02:06:54 the whole "paper-form-on-the-plane-plus-interview" thing must presumably be quite expensive 02:07:14 I don't think it cuts out the paper form. Maybe it does? 02:07:38 the US one costs $4 to apply and $10 to get approved 02:07:45 ais523: Which forms? 02:08:02 shachaf: when visiting Canada, I had to fill out a form while physically on the plane 02:08:22 Oh, the ESTA thing. 02:08:54 It's possible to avoid that by traveling to Canada first. 02:09:28 no 02:09:35 that's something different 02:09:52 the Canadian form he's talking about is the standard customs declaration card, just saying who you are and what you have with you 02:09:58 it's common to most countries 02:10:03 (in different forms, obviously) 02:10:15 I'm talking about ais523's known Brit. 02:10:18 also can you avoid the ESTA by going via Canada? nothing I've seen indicates that you can do that 02:10:38 coppro: If you arrive by land from Canada. 02:10:38 shachaf: it was on a website somewhere, I don't really know the details 02:10:44 Or so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_System_for_Travel_Authorization says. 02:12:35 shachaf: aaaah 02:12:37 I was thinking by air 02:13:29 I traveled from the US to Canada and back by land once. 02:13:43 It was much easier in one direction. 02:14:44 let me guess. the to Canada direction. 02:14:54 Yes. 02:15:35 Well yeah, by leaving AMERICA you've proven you're a muslimterroristantichrist 02:16:15 ahhh ok so the ESTA replaces the I-94W form 02:16:35 which visa waiver people used to have to fill out after landing 02:17:07 I don't know if Canada had a similar form 02:17:19 coppro: But not in advance. 02:18:35 shachaf: right 02:18:42 now you need to do it in advance of leaving 02:26:30 one thing that amused me was that at the airport where I landed in canada 02:26:40 there were two sections, one for flights to the US, one for flights to the rest of the world 02:26:43 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:26:48 and the US part seemed to have much tighter security 02:29:02 ais523: The US part has customs preclearance 02:29:16 there are US customs officers there, and once you are through that you go through security and into a contained area 02:29:26 ah right, so the idea is that you don't have to go through customs again in the US? 02:29:30 yes 02:29:34 this reminds me of the setup in the Channel Tunnel 02:29:38 yeah 02:29:41 there are French border guards on the UK side and vice versa 02:29:51 it's very convenient for a number of reasons. One of the big ones is getting to fly to smaller US airports 02:30:27 since they can do customs clearance on the departure side, they don't need border officials at the other end 02:30:29 (apparently we pushed for that several years ago to reduce the number of illegal migrants who managed to get onto a Eurotunnel train via the usual channels and then claimed asylum while on UK soil but before getting through customs) 02:30:41 (because nowadays our border officers can say no while the migrant is still physically in France) 02:30:42 ahahah 02:31:09 coppro: Once we drove to Canada and then flew outside the continent, but going through a US airport. 02:31:27 coppro: So we had to go through US customs, but in Canada, as part of leaving the US. 02:31:33 shachaf: lol 02:31:35 why did you do that? 02:31:41 I don't know. 02:32:03 ais523: the segregation also allows them to put weaker security checks on the non-US-bound flights because the US insists on "stronger" security 02:32:26 Do they respect TSA Pre✓? 02:32:43 coppro: the US insistence is relative? i.e. "travel to the US must be held to more stringent standards than your usual"? 02:32:46 ✓✓✔✔ 02:32:59 shachaf: no. It's still Canadian security agents. 02:33:06 ais523: Oh, that would be a great system. 02:33:09 ais523: The US doesn't give a rat's ass about non-US flights. 02:33:29 "please spend 2/3 of the average resources on screening Canada-bound flights" 02:33:30 coppro: unless they go near US airspace 02:33:32 but I don't think it's relative, I think it's just that they want things like for a while they wanted shoes scanned, and the like 02:33:50 I remember they were asking for US-level security checks on flights to/from Canada that went sufficiently close to US airspace 02:33:57 I no longer need to have my shoes scanned in US flights. 02:33:58 were they? 02:33:59 presumably on the basis that the plane might be diverted, or something 02:34:15 I know that they require copies of the passenger manifest for all flights that go over the US 02:34:20 ah, that could be it 02:34:38 there was a kerfuffle because the Canadian government had to pass legislation to allow it 02:56:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:28:14 -!- fowl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:29:45 -!- oren has joined. 03:30:08 -!- fowl has joined. 03:33:36 hi 03:36:22 We have all the green stars now 03:39:32 we do? 03:39:34 that's good 03:39:40 I wasn't aware we were missing any 03:39:44 now we can do the perfect run 04:08:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:33:06 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 04:40:52 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:41:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:16:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:22:38 Now I made up a "Bad at Magic Items" flaw for Dungeons&Dragons game, although the name isn't very good probably I should change it. It is: http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/flaw/bad_at_magic_items 05:23:18 If you know how to play this game you can tell me if there is something wrong with it please. 05:23:35 zzo38: which edition? 05:24:03 The 3.5 edition 05:24:30 "skills" should be "skill checks", other than that it seems to work rules-wise, but it would be a really big drawback 05:24:37 so most players would choose not to take it 05:25:49 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:25:51 But I don't want to make it too minor either 05:27:34 oh, definitely 05:27:44 you're erring on the right side there, most flaws are apparently really broken 05:30:46 If you think it is too severe how to changed to make not too minor either though? 05:35:20 hmm, the save penalty is probably the biggest effect there 05:35:24 if you remove it it's probably too minor 05:40:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:44:50 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 05:58:38 The name isn't very good either I think 06:04:04 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:05:03 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:05:44 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 06:05:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 06:06:08 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:21:06 What kind of interesting features are there in CLIs? 06:21:59 I think it depend what kind of CLI? 06:25:01 Like 06:25:09 A traditional CLI 06:25:27 cpy f1 f2 -f >> f3 06:26:28 What other features are there? 06:26:42 Let's see if I can think of it 06:27:10 Should we design a True EsoShell? 06:27:32 You can try, if you have some idea how to design it. 06:30:08 -!- JesseH has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:33:06 zzo38: Think of any rare-but-useful shell features yet? 06:33:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: The fnord never strikes twice in the same fnord | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 06:49:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:17:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:25:57 -!- mihow has joined. 07:50:18 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 08:02:10 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:06:20 -!- aloril has joined. 08:32:59 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:39:14 -!- aloril has joined. 09:07:15 -!- sc00fy has joined. 09:29:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:58:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:03:36 [wiki] [[Talk:ShortScript]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=44044 * YourDeathIsComing * (+76) Created page with "If you have any suggestions for this language please feel free to post them." 10:10:42 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:16:10 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:24:04 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:36:14 -!- Ox0dea has joined. 10:36:23 Is single-line Befunge-98 Turing-complete? 10:42:49 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:45:07 -!- MDude has joined. 10:49:20 Ox0dea: almost certainly yes 10:49:31 people have written "effectively Unefunge" Befunge in the past 10:49:49 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:49:52 and, well, Unefunge itself is considered TC I think and that's basically identical to one-line Befunge-98 except that y coordinates don't exist 10:50:08 (e.g. the g/p commands can't be used to read/write off your line) 10:53:13 ais523: Hm, information on Unefunge appears to be quite scarce. 10:53:31 Ox0dea: it's mentioned in the official docs for Befunge-98, but it's basically just a one-line mention 10:53:42 that if you remove the y coordinate, newlines, and all commands that require two dimensions to exist 10:53:46 that you get Unefunge 10:54:01 -!- lleu has joined. 10:54:01 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 10:54:01 -!- lleu has joined. 10:54:24 Sure, but that it remains TC after being gutted so isn't immediately obvious. 10:54:57 the only really hard part is loops, and you can use a flying IP for that 10:55:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:17:16 [wiki] [[Ziim]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44045&oldid=38420 * Timwi * (+28) Fix important mistake 11:17:48 The mistake itself was important? 11:18:10 Ox0dea: ? 11:18:24 The changelog message there? 11:18:27 ugh, now I'm trying to translate 0x0dea into decimal in my head 11:18:41 > 0x0dea 11:18:43 3562 11:18:52 that rather ruins it, but fair enough 11:19:08 that was the point hth 11:19:11 (strangely enough, I'm in the habit of using bash to translate hex into decimal) 11:19:32 Shall we golf? 11:20:00 Oh, never mind; `printf` is a thing. 11:20:39 `` echo $((0x0dea)) 11:20:40 3562 11:20:53 no printf required for hex→decimal (only to convert the other way round) 11:21:36 TIL. 11:45:09 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:45:54 -!- lleu has joined. 11:46:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:46:32 -!- lleu has quit (Client Quit). 11:46:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:46:51 -!- lleu has joined. 12:16:14 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 12:16:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:17:48 http://codepad.org/44Cqut5S <- suggestions. 12:17:58 I'm trying to come up with an open source license that has privacy restrictions. 12:19:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:20:25 mroman: that can't be open source by definition (no restriction on fields of endeavour), although you can make it "like" open source 12:29:00 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:29:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:48:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:49:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:50:53 [wiki] [[Talk:Malbrain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44046&oldid=43731 * Paul2520 * (+168) 12:55:29 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:55:53 -!- lleu has joined. 12:55:53 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 12:55:53 -!- lleu has joined. 12:56:51 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:59:08 -!- lleu has joined. 13:02:16 yep, Agatha definitely has to go to that family party... 13:17:16 -!- x10A94 has joined. 13:17:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:57:51 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 14:00:20 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:03:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:04:16 -!- atslash has joined. 14:05:41 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 14:08:48 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:09:32 -!- atslash has joined. 14:16:20 -!- FilthyCasual has joined. 14:16:29 -!- FilthyCasual has left. 14:28:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:46:15 -!- APic has quit (Quit: Boot tut gut™). 14:49:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:53:01 oh right, that TTS update schedule... 14:57:38 TTS? 14:58:13 oh tuesday-thursday-saturday 14:58:44 int-e: yeah at this rate they should switch to that officially. except then they'll just slip another day. 15:01:38 beausoleil is a bit inscrutable, is he evil or _just_ arrogant 15:01:59 i suppose they make it ambiguous on purpose 15:03:19 evil? opportunistic, perhaps, and used to being smarter than most people around him 15:04:28 well my question is whether he was behind any of the assassination attempts. although with the Family involved, he seems redundant. 15:05:05 if he was, we'll probably find out 15:05:18 (does the family have any official name? they certainly don't all share a surname) 15:06:33 wait what, girl genius has a cast list? 15:08:53 The Sturmvoraus family, I'd call them. 15:09:28 And why is it that this is the first time I notice that this is german... 15:11:19 let's see, shopping, laundry, lambdabot maintenance that I promised for last weekend... better get busy :) 15:15:48 -!- zadock has joined. 15:16:42 -!- zadock has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:21:05 -!- sc00fy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:28:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 15:41:10 -!- grotewold has joined. 15:45:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:46:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:49:56 -!- APic has joined. 16:01:07 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:01:37 -!- JesseH has joined. 16:07:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:27:28 good noon 16:28:16 `thanks moon 16:28:17 Thanks, moon. Thoon. 16:37:55 `thanks ants 16:37:56 Thanks, ants. Thants. 16:38:20 `thanks things 16:38:21 Thanks, things. Things. 16:38:29 interesting 16:44:19 -!- mihow has joined. 16:45:28 `thanks 谷風 16:45:29 Thanks, 谷風. T風. 16:45:38 no. 16:48:30 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:52:32 No. 16:52:37 -!- rodgort has joined. 16:55:32 `` PERL_UNICODE=SDA thanks 谷風 16:55:33 Thanks, 谷風. T風. 16:56:22 `` sed -i -e 's/perl/perl -CSDA/' bin/thanks 16:56:24 No output. 16:56:29 `thanks 谷風 16:56:29 Thanks, 谷風. T風. 16:56:33 "Fixed" it. 16:56:52 Although the "algorithm" is still pretty latin-alphabet-only. 16:58:13 Spoilers: it's "if there's any character [aeiouy], replace anything before that by 'Th'; otherwise, replace the first character by 'T'." 16:59:12 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:07:26 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:07:52 [wiki] [[Talk:Malbrain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=44047&oldid=44046 * Rdebath * (+266) :-) 17:11:58 -!- Wright has joined. 17:12:25 `` cat bin/thanks 17:12:26 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -CSDA \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; 17:13:01 perl: the mainstream esolang 17:13:57 Is it possible to program vim so that the delete key does not store deleted text in the register by default (but other commands to delete text in normal mode do store the text in the register)? 17:14:29 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 17:14:38 yes 17:15:27 :noremap x "_x 17:15:30 etc 17:17:34 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:18:02 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:20:36 I would still want x and d to save the deleted text, and still want to allow delete key to be used with an explicit register, just to change the default if delete is used instead of d or x or some other command 17:27:11 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 17:30:52 -!- zadock has joined. 17:32:52 -!- zadock has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:33:11 Trying :noremap "_ does not seem to do anything? 17:46:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:51:22 -!- augur has joined. 17:51:50 -!- mihow has joined. 17:52:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:58:50 Using my Wii U, I can watch youtube on my CRT TV 17:59:44 isn't it comforting to have a raygun pointed at my face? 18:00:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:28:04 and a lot of homophones that come from initial consonant clusters that English people are lazy to pronounce: write–right–rite–wright, wrap–rap, wrest–rest, knight–night, knot–not. 18:29:14 O, OK yes I suppose I can see them too 18:29:23 English is full of crazy homophones. there's verbs like sew–sow, raise–raze; mathematical functions sine–sign; 18:29:31 Swap those two lines. 18:30:05 Yes, English is full if stupid stuff like that and others 18:30:42 some of those are due to the loss of velar fricatives 18:31:17 doesthiswork: what? which one? 18:31:35 gh is how to voiced velar fricative used to be written 18:31:51 replace to with the 18:31:59 I see 18:32:43 so right would be riɣt 18:33:31 but is now /rait/ 18:34:08 v 18:35:21 (the v is because I temporarily switched to an different keymap and forgot that control-v didn't mean paste) 18:35:27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative 18:35:55 -!- MDude has joined. 18:40:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:44:10 zzo38 18:51:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:55:28 what the hell is this? EFCDAB89 isn't representable as a UInt32??? 18:58:21 Aha! 18:59:03 oh, look, the result of the ICFP contest is now announced! 19:00:33 I thought of a possibility that my "Bad at Magic Items" flaw, to change it so that in addition to attacks/saves/skills it also affects AC and SR, but only penalizes them in situations where magic is involved or to cancel out a magical bonus, and otherwise does not penalize them; and that if activating an item would do nothing anyways then you aren't stunned either. Does this seem to make it better? 19:01:11 zzo38: um what? I don't understand that whole thing. what are you talking about? 19:01:11 first place: Team Eel? 19:01:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:01:36 b_jonas: I mean this: http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/flaw/bad_at_magic_items 19:01:41 eels are known for their electrical engineering prowess 19:01:45 (I think the name is also not very good and should be improved.) 19:01:59 perhaps I should write the first word as EEls. 19:02:11 int-e: good point 19:02:55 So a bunch of Japanese Eels, using a lot of languages at once, won the contest. 19:03:40 We officially declare that C++, Java, C#, PHP, Ruby and Haskell are the programming tools of choice for discriminating hackers! 19:03:55 ^ PHP? augh 19:04:26 No Perl. 19:04:37 b_jonas: Do you understand this? 19:04:38 Ruby is okay ish, but Haskell and C# are the only ones on that list that are functional 19:05:00 C# is functional specifically if you're using LINQ 19:05:16 oren: I agree PHP isn't very good, nevertheless I have written a few programs in PHP (as well as in various others) 19:05:52 I have written entire 1000 line web applications in PHP. I still don't like it 19:06:20 It is easy to use, but... just ugly 19:06:26 Yes, I have written standalone programs in PHP too, still not as good as C and JavaScript and so on 19:06:27 Javascript is kind of nice, as long as you don't try to interact with the browser ;) 19:06:35 yeha 19:06:36 int-e: Yes, I agree 19:10:10 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:10:10 -!- augur has joined. 19:12:38 I think yesterday it was ais523 who comment about my "Bad at Magic Items" flaw. But I want to know how to make improved, if anyone else has idea too. I believe the name should be changed too, if you know how to make the better name of it 19:15:40 Aggressivly Mundane? 19:16:08 . o O ( Were were you the last 3 rounds? -- Oh, I accidently stumbled into my bag of holding, took me ages to find the way back. ) 19:16:33 OK, yes that is one idea of the name, thank you 19:16:50 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:19:06 zzo38: um, I don't know, I don't really know much about DnD style magic items in first place, so I can't really tell what this flaw is like 19:20:00 zzo38: does this mean you can still fire expensive +5 arrows from your non-magical bow without a penalty? 19:20:20 zzo38: and what does SR mean in first place? 19:20:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:20:36 b_jonas: SR means spell resistance 19:20:43 ah 19:21:23 Also, it does not mean you can fire expensive +5 arrows from your non-magical bow without a penalty; you take a -1 penalty. Although I suppose as worded it doesn't but I need to fix that! 19:21:31 Thank you for noticing that! 19:23:03 So is this a flaw that a character would have if they're a barbarian or druid who doesn't rely much on items, but does martial arts bare-handed or with an ordinary quarterstick, or leads other people or animals to a fight? 19:24:16 Or if you use mundane items much more than magical 19:24:16 Or could a sorcerer or psion take this reasonably, if they don't want to use permanent magic items, but instead manage all the magic themselves or at most use scrolls and potions? 19:24:46 Does reading scrolls come with a use magic device check? 19:25:11 Or does the “activate any magic item other than a spell completion item” cover a scroll or a magic potion? 19:25:21 Reading scrolls sometimes requires a use magic device check; it does if you could not otherwise figure out the spell 19:25:36 A scroll is a spell completion item. A potion is not; it does cover potions. 19:26:18 If you scribed the scroll yourself you could always figure it out though. 19:26:22 Ok. 19:26:31 Scribing scrolls yourself is expensive though! 19:26:54 but you don't scribe the scroll, that would need you using a magic item, namely a magic marker 19:27:11 sure, it's also expensive, it requires xp and feats and stuff 19:27:20 and knowing the spell 19:27:32 Yes, it does require those things. 19:32:00 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:35:23 Now many possible changes have been figure out; do you think it can be good enough with all of these changes? 19:35:36 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 19:38:23 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:48:34 OK, I made many changes now (including the filename) 19:54:25 http://imgur.com/gallery/TWY4LbE this 19:58:07 I have some idea that if you make PDF viewing program, to have default mode which mostly ignores the restrictions of operations, and also compliance mode which follow the restriction as specified in the file. Even in default mode though a lock icon is shown for operations that are marked as restricted, but they work anyways; for user-specified colors, the option now in addition to "When document does not specify" and "Always" is also "When document 20:00:28 Annotations and forms and so on would not be loaded by default if the document restricts these functions, but can still be used if the user explicitly selects them by menu or command-line. 20:01:50 Do you agree with these kind of thing? 20:02:09 your message was cropped after 'in addition to "When document does not specify" and "Always" is also "When document' 20:02:35 for user-specified colors, the option now in addition to "When document does not specify" and "Always" is also "When document does not restrict" 20:03:27 zzo38: This sounds similar though not identical to the approach taken by mupdf. 20:03:52 mupdf intentionally omts several of those features because they're terrible. :) 20:05:12 I have seen information about another program which has an option to turn on/off whether these restrictions are applied, but I think my way would make it more useful, so that even if you want to print it anyways, you can still know if the author was trying to prevent you from printing it. 20:06:05 Oh, huh, mupdf did implement them. Optionally. 20:06:31 (note that mupdf is mostly a PDF *library* though; it ships with some utils, but they're pretty rough UI-wise) 20:06:59 Due to what is in the document it might require its own colors, that is why there should be three choice for such reason 20:09:50 zzo38: sure, and you should be able to switch the colors at run-time for just a document if you want 20:10:32 just like how I normally set my browsers to use the fonts I choose only, but on oren's bitmap font demonstration page I temporarily want to allow his font 20:17:30 int dir = (i % 2 == 0 ? 1 : -1); for (int pol = dir > 0 ? 0 : 1; dir > 0 ? pol <= 1 : pol >= 0; pol += dir) ... in retrospect, coming back to this snippet after a year, I'm not quite sure this was the best way of expressing "iterate alternatingly 0,1 or 1,0". 20:18:12 Also I have absolutely no idea *why* it needs to do that. 20:20:54 ...oh, I start to vaguely remember. But that's horrible, and doubly so is not to put a comment here. 20:21:11 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 20:28:49 beautiful 20:31:40 hmm, int pol = i % 2; for (int c = 0; c < 2; c++, pol ^= 1)... 20:32:15 pol = i & 1 <-- would be more in line with the xor. 20:32:58 int-e: For the record, it was part of gearlanced.c, and it needs to alternate because executing a single match has the side effect of flipping the right program's polarity. 20:33:28 (dir, pol) = (1 - pol, 1 - dir) 20:33:59 python? 20:34:16 haskell, with leading let also rust 20:34:27 in haskell that will bottom out 20:34:29 python maybe, too 20:34:43 oh, yeah 20:34:55 It's also Python. 20:35:04 Though by convention it would be written without the parentheses, I think. 20:35:25 iterate (\(x, y) -> (1-x, 1-y)) (1, 0) 20:35:34 ml, but that also needs a let. 20:36:00 cycle [(1,0),(0,1)] 20:36:20 :D 20:36:24 right 20:36:25 but the iterate could be more efficient if it fuses 20:36:35 huh? 20:37:56 as far as I understand, the cycle *will* allocate a two-element cyclic list on the heap, at least with ghc; the compiler isn't smart enough to see the structur. with fusion, the iterate version can end up with x and y in registers, being negated in each iteration. 20:38:56 ah 20:39:08 that makes sense 20:39:28 I just replaced it with int sieve = i % 2, kettle = !sieve; to get either 0,1 or 1,0; it used to be convoluted because it had to go in order as it was putchar'ing, but now it's writing to two separate arrays. (I'm making it a bit more easily extendable as preparation for being able to use the fancy don't-recompile hill stuff also for getting the visualization statistics. Trying to reach new ... 20:39:34 ... levels of premature optimization, here.) 20:43:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:44:10 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:45:42 *Sigh* 20:46:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:53:36 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 20:57:50 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:57:56 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 20:59:16 hppavello! 20:59:30 (I'm not quite certain how to pronounce that) 21:02:38 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 21:04:09 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:04:18 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 21:04:58 I cannot install a print server downstairs because a different router is used, but I had the other idea is the computer with the printer is the client instead, and then if it is turned on and enter the password it can download the PCL file from my computer and send it to the printer. 21:05:51 I wonder if it is possible to do this with FreeDOS so that it does not take too long to start up the computer. 21:07:05 zzo38: um, how would FreeDOS help compared to a linux with most of the time-consuming stuff at boot disabled? 21:08:13 I mean, in my experience, when I boot my PC, it takes 30 seconds to even get to the beginning of the boot loader, then between 30 and 40 seconds to boot up from that. But with a stripped down linux where you don't start much stuff, it would take only 10 seconds, so 21:08:16 I don't know much about how Linux is booting, but I know that FreeDOS boots very fast 21:08:30 at that point it doesn't matter whether you make it 10 second or 5 second, because the 30 seconds before that is what takes most of the time. 21:08:39 Less than ten seconds even 21:08:42 Linux proper boots practically instantly; it's the distros that make it suck. 21:08:54 Sure, I know DOS boots instantly, especially if you use that magical switch in the config.sys so it doesn't deliberately sleep for one second 21:09:06 unless you're using a slow hard drive that is 21:09:36 the magical switch is SWITCHES=/F by the way 21:09:48 Well 21:09:52 I'm going to make a VM 21:09:56 and it's a 2 second sleep, not one seconds 21:10:05 that applies to MS-DOS, I don't know about FreeDOS 21:11:25 I have used FreeDOS so I have figured out how to speed it up. 21:12:14 ok 21:14:02 On one computer I installed FreeDOS and a database program; the database program is ready before the CRT is ready if both are turned on at the same time. 21:15:14 This database program was designed to be used on a XT computer with floppy disks, but I had a much more modern computer and with a hard drive and FreeDOS, and past the year 2000, and yet it still works fine. 21:15:50 (The only problem I found is it would not let me to enter telephone numbers with a 778 area code, and I did not figure out how to fix that.) 21:17:03 zzo38: is it running natively, or emulated under some other operating system? 21:17:12 I no longer run DOS natively 21:17:20 I run it emulated for games and similar 21:17:33 That computer ran DOS natively. I do not know if it is still in use since I do not work there anymore. 21:17:44 I did run it natively for quite a long time though 21:18:50 Now I run Linux on my own computer so I use an emulator to run various DOS games such as ZZT and Jazz Rabbit and so on. 21:19:56 what is ZZT? 21:21:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:25:52 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:31:09 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:32:41 WalVM 21:37:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:41:30 nice quote, "It is easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." (found on haskell-cafe) 21:41:48 (attributed to Bill Harlan) 21:46:14 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:53:44 The maximum number for a 2 byte instruction name is FEFE (in hex), right? 21:53:50 255*255 21:54:14 Wait 21:54:16 No 21:54:21 ehhh 21:54:22 hex(255)+hex(255) 21:54:33 (+ is join) 21:54:41 (hex() does not add 0x and produces a string) 21:54:51 that is FFFF 21:54:52 I'm making a VM 21:54:58 It seems like it 21:55:11 I'm including 0000 and such 21:55:14 0001 21:55:16 0002 21:55:17 Etc 21:57:17 that would be 65536 possibilities 21:57:46 That sounds right 21:59:09 The python program used for x in range(255) 21:59:12 for y in range(255) 21:59:15 Where can I find test data for SHA 21:59:23 Then concatenated the hexes of x and y 21:59:26 (that's 341664 in base 7, if my calculation is correct) 21:59:29 No clue 21:59:47 I'll just hope it's right and add the rest manually if not 21:59:48 which it isn't :) 22:01:14 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:02:48 > 2^16 `div` 7^2 22:02:50 1337 22:03:38 Here's an idea for an ISA 22:04:00 Unknown argument count 22:04:29 An instruction keeps consuming arguments until it meets an END instruction (which would be 0000, probably) 22:04:41 Instead of ADD 22:04:43 We have SUM 22:05:33 so, how do you multiply by 0? 22:05:48 Every input has a value of itself-1 22:06:09 0000 is abstractfully equal to -1 22:06:19 okay 22:06:44 * hppavilion[1] patents that idea and makes a million billion dollars (long system, of course) 22:13:57 myname: So do you like the idea? 22:15:57 i am not sure yet 22:16:14 There are definitely flaws 22:16:20 Ex: How the hell does branching work 22:16:44 BRANCH 1 2 3 4 5; <--!? 22:16:59 Perhaps it's concurrent? 22:18:44 lambdabot: Hi xD 22:18:51 fungot: 22:18:51 hppavilion[1]: lucky you :) 22:18:53 fungot: 22:18:53 hppavilion[1]: i do this. 22:18:54 fungot: 22:18:54 hppavilion[1]: i was fnord before. when do _you_ use assigment? does doing so make you feel like drawing something. requests/ ideas anyone? 22:19:29 Where does Fungot get his quotes? 22:19:35 Or its 22:19:52 As fungot trancends our primitive ideas of gender and actual existence 22:19:52 hppavilion[1]: the worst one was in the ' artic circle'. you just get numbers. you can have a proof like that 22:19:58 these aren't quotes 22:20:10 Are they generated sentences? 22:20:15 yeah 22:20:18 Whoa. 22:20:27 Where are the quotes fungotten? 22:20:28 based on different styles 22:20:28 shachaf: he appears to be completely missing. 22:20:38 dun dun dun 22:20:49 Do you have any clue how BRANCH should work? 22:21:01 BRANCH 5 1000000 69 42 8; 22:21:40 well, naive idea would be goto 22:22:50 Yes 22:22:52 Of course 22:22:57 That would be naive 22:23:03 I definitely didn't consider that 22:23:18 CALL a b c d would probably call a then b then c then d 22:24:00 RAND would flourish in this language 22:24:12 RAND a b c d picks one of them at random 22:25:06 myname: Do you know of an /un/naive idea? 22:25:12 You kind of left me hanging there xD 22:27:14 well, it depends on your overall idea 22:27:18 Of course 22:27:19 you could do sone 22:27:22 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:27:25 sone? 22:27:27 something like what,c does 22:27:40 Which is? 22:27:58 i.e. having a call that returns different values depending on the thread you are in 22:28:08 Ah? 22:28:14 This is a VM 22:28:21 (I don't know much about assembly xD) 22:28:26 (I've been meaning to learn it) 22:28:43 CALL and BRANCH are different, right? 22:29:00 yeah 22:29:26 wait 22:29:39 you are talking about something existing? 22:30:25 Every input has a value of itself-1 <-- then there will be a possible large argument value missing instead hth 22:30:34 Yes 22:30:38 oerjan: Yes there will be 22:30:42 It's not perfect xD 22:30:47 -!- shikhin has changed nick to minicat2. 22:31:22 -!- minicat2 has changed nick to shikhin. 22:34:17 How do you like this for the SET instruction: 22:34:20 if argc == 1, zero reg args[0] to 0. Else, set reg args[0] to args[1], reg args[0]+1 to args[2], etc. for length of arguments. 22:37:08 Dammit oerjan 22:37:11 Now it's bugging me 22:37:17 Any better ways to implement it? 22:37:34 I mean, I suppose I could do * 22:37:40 But I don't like that 22:37:45 It's a bit ugly 22:38:41 It's bugging me 'cause it'll mess up printing of the chr(0xFF) character 22:38:48 > chr(255) 22:38:50 '\255' 22:38:58 > '\255' 22:38:59 '\255' 22:39:09 > print('\255') 22:39:11 22:39:15 OK then 22:40:00 Perhaps an escape arg code? 22:40:15 FF could be the escape code 22:40:51 Then to multiply by 0 you do FF 00 00 22:41:05 myname? 22:41:25 I'm just bouncing ideas off of people and need to alert them to respond xD 22:41:31 I'm probably a "bit" annoying 22:42:01 . o O ( Were were you the last 3 rounds? -- Oh, I accidently stumbled into my bag of holding, took me ages to find the way back. ) <-- istr living things cannot survive in bags of holding 22:42:55 well C has similar problems printing \0's... 22:43:07 Of course, escape chars are /pretty/ complex for an ISA 22:43:29 > var "\255" 22:43:31 ÿ 22:44:22 > var "\256" 22:44:24 Ā 22:44:31 Oh 22:44:34 Must be Unifcode 22:44:50 > var [maxBound] 22:44:52 􏿿 22:44:55 (well of course it is) 22:45:00 (this is the future) 22:45:19 So oerjan, what's a better idea: Escape chars or varlength args? 22:45:48 varlength seems less evil 22:45:54 I know 22:45:59 But it's also less fun 22:46:13 I'll do... 22:46:17 I really don't know 22:46:27 Imma go shower and think on it 22:56:08 I think I'll just settle for varlength 22:58:55 oerjan: Do I strictly need a NOP? 23:01:01 not if you can fake one... 23:07:25 OK 23:08:45 Should I provide builtin floating point operations? 23:10:28 And what about hyperbolic sin/cos/tan? 23:11:14 -!- Wright has joined. 23:12:42 SO MANY CHOICES 23:12:54 HALP oerjan! 23:13:48 so much vertical space tdnh 23:14:13 -!- shikhin has changed nick to root. 23:14:18 -!- root has changed nick to shikhin. 23:15:38 And hyperbolic inverse sin/cos/tan too 23:17:21 PROVIDE ALL THE THINGS 23:18:40 hm is ordinary sin/cos/tan elliptic or parabolic 23:18:51 and whichever it is, what's the third kind 23:19:47 Hyperbolic is the third kind, I believe 23:19:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:19:57 um no 23:20:13 And despite my limited knowledge, based on some snazzy diagrams I've seen on wikipedia, I would think it's elliptic given the circle shown 23:20:28 STOP MISUNDERSTANDING ME 23:20:45 i may not be making sense, but that is NO excuse 23:21:03 hyperbolic was the first one, which you mentioned 23:22:04 Last time I checked, parabola =/= hyperbola 23:22:11 But I could be spewing bullshit 23:22:15 Which is a very pleasant image 23:22:17 paranoia = hypernoia?? 23:24:12 Well duh 23:24:42 OK 23:25:13 I've got the registral, Arithmetical, Trigonometric, and Hyperbolic/Trigonometric 23:25:18 What to add next? 23:25:20 Ooh 23:25:23 Another project 23:25:38 ISA with Geometric instructions 23:25:49 I suppose next comes boolean 23:25:53 Then control 23:27:03 Also, bitwise 23:33:11 heyppavilion can you try to keep each sentenc on one line please twh? 23:34:06 Sorry 23:34:26 I send messages as I think of them xD 23:34:30 Whoops, did it again 23:34:40 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] -----### 23:34:49 * hppavilion[1] whimpers 23:34:54 Was it with a Mapole? 23:35:04 of course not, with a swatter 23:35:06 `? mapole 23:35:07 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6' by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg. 23:35:08 Oh 23:35:43 I currently have 1E instructions (which I don't want to dehex) 23:36:00 What is that? 14? Yeah. 14. 23:36:29 > 0x1E 23:36:31 30 23:36:38 Oh right 23:36:39 xD 23:37:03 E is 14. 1E is 16+14=30 23:37:14 I'm an idiot 23:37:44 ==oren 23:37:58 please optimize your use of irc vertical space 23:38:03 it is a scarce resource 23:38:17 https://github.com/hppavilion1/IndeterminantVM/blob/master/setdocs.txt 23:38:25 Sorry again xD 23:39:18 They aren't very well ordered 23:39:30 I probably should've put off the trigonometric functions until later 23:39:31 -!- atslash has joined. 23:40:18 I'll probably reorder them someday xD 23:40:35 Dammit. I keep doing it. 23:42:05 it's like a comedy show at this point 23:43:44 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:43:50 -!- atslash has joined. 23:44:18 I went to see Jim Gaffigan yesterday 23:49:27 -!- Aearnus has joined. 23:49:51 -!- Aearnus has changed nick to Guest58128.