2015-08-01: 00:21:03 How many people using vi/vim is using control and [ instead of escape key because it can be easier to reach while typing other stuff? I am one 00:23:59 I don't. Caps Lock is gleefully remapped to Escape on every keyboard I touch. 00:24:47 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:41:18 `wisdom 00:41:20 oren/oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. 00:41:40 `wisdom 00:41:43 glumgot/glumgot is not a particularly bad swear word, but is still disquieting. 00:41:51 and last... 00:41:53 `wisdom 00:41:54 catamorphism/A catamorphism is when you recurse too greedily and too deep. 00:42:02 fungot: oren glumgot catamorphism? 00:42:02 boily: yes. that basic level is hardly very useful, though; i tested it 00:42:34 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 00:42:44 `relcome codergeek42 00:42:47 ​codergeek42: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 00:42:55 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:43:12 :O I forgot IRC could have colors lol. 00:43:14 * codergeek42 waves hi. 00:43:34 * boily does an interpretative welcome dance 00:43:59 what brings you here? what's your stance about roast beef? 00:47:37 reef boasting 00:48:07 my reef's so totally better than yours. 00:48:09 hth! 00:50:57 boily: Not true! My reef's so good, it elevated itself to a small, floating reef-garden! 00:51:16 (Maybe those balloons helped a bit...) 00:52:11 little known fact: the hanging gardens of babylon were also a reef 00:52:48 hellegrep. uh... are you somebody else I know, or are you the one who is who you are? 00:53:14 i'm sure he's a regular 00:53:48 well, Koen_ seems to be the nearest match. 00:53:56 * oerjan was expecting a mapole 00:54:18 I'm oiling and shining it for better ærodynamism. 00:54:27 ah 00:54:28 I'm a regular nuisance, according to egrep. 00:55:03 * boily *THWACKS* egrep with a half-reversed doublespin southpaw Hyper Mega Drive mapole 00:55:43 boily: I am the one who was who I will have been and will be and am. 00:55:54 i'm pretty sure you forgot a ™ 00:56:58 I lost all of mine a few days ago. 00:57:24 My theory is that it was a extreme-stealth mugging that I didn't notice. 00:57:34 s/a e/an e/ 00:58:07 * egrep flop to the ground from boily's *THWACK* 00:58:16 s/op/ops/ 01:00:27 * boily pickpockets egrep, exchanges his royal steaks, then moves a pineapple 01:00:33 I won! 01:01:00 good eving 01:01:07 Its the weekend! 01:01:11 helloren! 01:01:16 it sure is! 01:01:23 @metar CYYZ 01:01:23 CYYZ 010000Z CCA 29014KT 15SM FEW055TCU FEW090 BKN130 BKN270 26/13 A2976 RMK TCU1AC1AC5CI1 TCU TR CI TR CB DIST E SLP076 DENSITY ALT 2100FT 01:01:38 @metar CYUL 01:01:38 CYUL 010000Z 23011KT 30SM FEW060 SCT090 BKN140 BKN240 25/16 A2969 RMK SC1AC4AC2CI1 SC TR SLP054 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 01:02:15 I'm gonna work on my new esolang 01:02:58 It's the sucessor to scrip7. it will be compiled 01:03:12 * egrep moves the pineapple back 01:03:48 I was just at the fruit market. I bought bananas but I should have bought ananas 01:06:12 Effectively most of the basic syntax will be the same as scrip7 01:06:37 but jumps and conditionals will be made so that they make sense 01:07:20 scrip8, then. :P 01:07:26 yeah 01:07:37 scrip8 01:08:54 also, the g and h registers will be different and the _ pseudo register will be removed 01:10:13 jumps will simply use labels 01:10:51 rather than the crazy way it works in scrip7 which was badly implemented[C 01:11:00 if it's simpler than scrip7, shouldn't it be scrip6? 01:11:24 I was thinking scr1p7 01:11:38 or scrip77 01:12:50 eh scrip8 is fine 01:13:20 it's not entirely simpler, since it adds a preprocessor stage (which does the labels) 01:14:37 script7±1. 01:15:34 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MELODIOUS CHICKEN). 01:20:22 scripavg(6,8) 01:25:08 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:27:24 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:37:58 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 01:54:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:54 Why does xterm disable national character sets unless you enable it first (by setting the corresponding DEC private mode)? 02:16:42 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:20:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 02:22:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:22:54 Hellu 02:24:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 02:32:50 -!- tromp___ has joined. 02:32:51 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:36:35 * oerjan learns about the third homomorphism theorem 02:42:57 -!- Wallacoloo has left. 02:52:14 the font/rendering of this paper is unbearable 03:07:22 Guys, do you think it would be wise for me to try and eat my salary in cheese? 03:07:55 (important fact: this is *free* cheese, at the office) 03:08:10 (important fact #2: this would sadly be 25lbs of cheese a day.) 03:11:12 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:23 -!- Wright has joined. 03:15:03 pikhq: Not particularly. 03:25:14 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:36:13 it would at least be cheesy 03:43:01 if it's free cheese, it would be ∞ lbs cheese/day hth 03:43:59 -!- Trigraph has joined. 03:45:07 all the pop songs of 2013 in 10 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEcKDfMS_jY 03:46:06 -!- Froox has joined. 03:46:22 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:50:06 -!- Trigraph has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:50:30 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:55:05 shachaf: Well, free-to-me. It has a market rate. 03:55:46 I suspect I'd get fired if I tried to engage in arbitrage against this, though. 04:00:51 -!- Trigraph has joined. 04:02:43 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 04:03:27 There's some rule about that. 04:04:00 *nod* 04:09:25 So your employer has instituted an export embargo against the worldwide cheese market? 04:09:40 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:11:02 Yes, but I'm still free to disrupt the worldwide bit market. 04:19:31 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:39:29 pikhq: Which team are you on? 04:42:28 Hmm I can't seem to find code to input WTF-8-CP-1252 04:43:13 (E.g. inputing UTF-8, allowing surrogate pairs and treating all errors by diverting to CP-1252) 04:43:58 shachaf: It's bizarre. I'm on a team that is currently being spun up, which means that I'm about as clueful as everyone else. 04:44:01 Nominally I' 04:44:20 m on dasher SRE, in practice I'm doing random bits and pieces of calendar. 04:44:43 (for no other reason than that I sit next to them) 04:46:11 Hmm.. I guess I'll roll my own exceptionless UTF-8 decoder 04:47:28 pikhq: Are you working with mhan? 04:49:16 -!- j-bot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:49:39 -!- j-bot has joined. 04:50:05 Not that I know of. 04:50:15 I mean is it that hard for people to be "liberal in what you accept, conservative in what you produce" 04:50:40 that's a scow principle 04:50:48 -!- dasjdasd has joined. 04:50:58 Yeah, he's in SFO on Gmail these days. 04:51:05 Ah. 04:51:07 I do have a new version of utftovlq 04:51:27 I do work with dinabetser though 04:51:32 pikhq: Maybe you're near Gracenotes? He used to be in this channel. 04:51:54 Dunno 04:52:02 oren: well irssi has that feature... 04:52:07 Matt Gruen 04:52:22 well not sure about surrogate pairs 04:52:58 I'm yet to meet him, but he's in the same building. 04:53:02 Different floor though. 04:53:06 Which currently doesn't really do anything properly with invalid UTF-8 byte sequences at all, but it does allow surrogates, overlong encodings, and any codepoints up to 36-bits long. 04:53:10 Maybe I'll just randomly show up. 04:53:35 Some even more new version could add option to decode invalid byte sequences somehow too. 04:56:03 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:00:03 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 05:13:40 Actually, for web use it now makes more sense to use CP 1251 as the backup encoding 05:13:55 Or maybe a mix? 05:14:41 yah. I'll treat some of the characters as 1252 and some as 1251 05:16:41 Eh screw it, I already have 1252 05:18:58 Or you could heuristic it. 05:19:40 Oh, for purposes of IRC it's probably best to fall back to either a configured choice or a choice based on the language. 05:20:04 Backup encodings are scow. 05:20:19 AH! russian text in CP1251 would have consecutive high bytes, whereas text in european languages would mostly have high low hih low 05:21:05 hence, if a utf-8 invalid sequence is consecutive high bytes, I'll treat it as 1251, else as 1252 05:21:53 There's a few different libs for heuristic detecting a charset based on a language model which might be a better approach. 05:22:01 shachaf: but they do decrease the amount of bytes needed to hold a given text 05:23:08 Unfortunately, I don't know of any of 'em that are in a super easy to use state. Might be nice to grab Mozilla's code and port it to C or somethin'. 05:26:15 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:28:57 For IRC you could have just set based on what screen you are on, if you have multiple screen, or based on what channel, etc 05:34:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 05:35:22 -!- tromp___ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:43:49 -!- dasjdasd has quit. 06:01:46 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:12:07 -!- Potrimpo has joined. 06:20:21 -!- Potrimpo has left. 06:35:50 -!- tromp has joined. 06:39:34 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:40:02 Hellu 06:40:10 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:54:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: byu). 07:02:18 What!? 07:02:20 BLASPHEMY! 07:02:31 OERJAN CANNOT NOT BE ON THE CHANNELLLLLLLLLLLLL 07:04:11 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:06:09 BLAH! ncurses is mangling my utf-8 07:10:09 screw this. back to termios 07:21:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:42:40 -!- olsner has joined. 07:43:02 -!- evalj has joined. 07:53:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:54:23 -!- vodkode has joined. 08:23:02 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:25:26 -!- tromp has joined. 08:30:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:45:05 -!- mauris has joined. 09:11:21 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:14:30 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:29:23 -!- Trigraph has quit. 09:58:04 -!- atslash has joined. 10:02:38 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:03:32 -!- atslash has joined. 10:25:08 -!- tromp has joined. 10:29:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:59:42 -!- mauris has joined. 11:41:02 -!- boily has joined. 11:58:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:09:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley%E2%80%93Milner_type_system#Syntax <-- isn't let x=e1 in e2 just (\x.e2)e1 12:12:46 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 12:12:56 -!- t3cora18 has joined. 12:13:52 -!- t3cora18 has changed nick to h0rsep0wer_znc. 12:14:02 -!- tromp has joined. 12:26:02 -!- h0rsep0wer_znc has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 12:39:24 -!- t3cora has joined. 12:40:25 -!- atrapado has joined. 12:41:48 -!- h0rsep0wer has left ("Leaving"). 12:42:19 -!- t3cora has quit (Client Quit). 12:44:30 -!- t3cora_ has joined. 12:45:35 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:51:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CURRANT CHICKEN). 13:17:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:46:09 -!- tromp has joined. 13:50:17 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:50:52 -!- zadock has joined. 13:58:30 -!- AltSopa has joined. 13:58:44 -!- AltSopa has changed nick to SopaXT. 14:01:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 14:09:48 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:17:45 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:26:04 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 14:28:50 > let f = \x->x in (f 1, f "mauris") 14:28:52 (1,"mauris") 14:29:05 > (\f-> (f 1, f "mauris")) (\x->x) 14:29:06 No instance for (Num [Char]) arising from the literal ‘1’ 14:29:06 In the first argument of ‘f’, namely ‘1’ 14:29:07 In the expression: f 1 14:29:45 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:29:55 (... or scroll down to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley–Milner_type_system#Let-polymorphism) 14:33:57 ( (\f : {a : Type} -> a -> a => (f 1, f "foo")) (\x => x) 14:34:03 \a1 => \x => x is not a numeric type 14:34:43 Wtf. 14:35:18 ( (\f : ({a : Type} -> a -> a) => (f 1, f "foo")) (\x => x) 14:35:18 \a1 => \x => x is not a numeric type 14:35:49 ( (\f : ({a : Type} -> a -> a) => (f (the Integer 1), f "foo")) (\x => x) 14:35:49 (1, "foo") : (Integer, String) 14:38:37 ( (\f : ({a : Type} -> Show a => a -> a) => (f (the Integer 1), f "foo")) (\x => x) 14:38:37 (input):1:73:No such variable a 14:49:12 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 14:51:10 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:59:58 -!- _256Q has joined. 14:59:58 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 14:59:58 -!- _256Q has joined. 15:11:15 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:11:28 -!- Wright has joined. 15:38:52 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:39:56 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:45:14 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 15:46:34 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:47:21 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:48:57 -!- Inri_Cristo has joined. 15:49:28 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:49:29 -!- Inri_Cristo has changed nick to h0rsep0wer. 15:49:37 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Client Quit). 15:49:56 -!- Inri_Cristo has joined. 15:49:56 -!- Inri_Cristo has changed nick to h0rsep0wer. 16:11:12 -!- _256Q has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:12:47 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:14:18 Portmanteau of the day: http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/cnfigsys/switchar.htm 16:22:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:23:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:26:38 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:28:27 -!- evalj has joined. 16:35:07 -!- Inri_Cristo has joined. 16:38:12 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:49:54 I'm writing my own ncurses-alternative 16:50:14 I didn't mean to, it just happened 16:52:40 why not termbox? 16:57:29 -!- Inri_Cristo has changed nick to h0rsep0wer. 16:58:30 ncurses doesn't handle utf-8 properly, and I'm too lazy to diagnose the issue, so I wrote my own which handles it. 16:58:44 well, handles it my not handling it 16:58:56 … 16:59:23 So it’s going to bulge out the right sides of things if there are wide chars? 16:59:48 nah, see all wide chars are at least 2 bytes in utf-8 17:00:29 so the only problem will be things being too short 17:00:44 … 17:00:56 hehehehe 17:01:02 What was the original problem again? 17:01:27 utf8 is corrupted when I pass it to addstr 17:02:22 it comes out as a bunch of ? 17:03:20 And you’re using a UTF-8 locale? 17:03:47 en_US.UTF-8 17:04:14 Hm. Well, not gonna try to remotely diagnose this, so carry on I guess … 17:04:56 another issue I've now solved is that ncurses' handling of colors is stupid 17:06:02 I just have a setcolors(int,int) which takes the FG and BG colors from 0 to 20 17:06:16 er, 19 17:07:09 Ncurses suvks 17:07:56 tbf ncurses is easier than using termios and ANSI sequences directly 17:09:17 now I'm working on getting sigwinch to handle correctly 17:09:20 There are alternatives 17:09:33 Termbox, newt, libcdt 17:13:04 Ok, cutting a UTF-8 character in half to make the string fit makes it have a ?? but at least the whole thing isn't being corrupter 17:13:42 thank you, UTF-8 self-synchronization 17:18:07 but this method would have worked a lot better for an EUC-XX encoding 17:34:42 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 17:43:32 -!- TodPunk has joined. 17:52:42 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:08:00 oren: What if people want to use 256-colour terminals? 18:08:14 And why 0 to 19? 18:10:22 Unicode is especially terrible for terminal encodings 18:11:17 I know terminals completely ignore the Right To Left override character 18:12:06 To change text direction should be a escape sequence if anything 18:13:30 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:51 Then that would suddenly only work in terminals, instead of in everything that implements a standards-compliant text layout algorithm. 18:14:31 There is at least one terminal that does implement bidi, it was one of the mac ones. 18:15:04 You should not use Unicode for terminals. For typesetting it can work but all of these stuff should be implemented in the font metric file instead; the font metric file decides what the nicode Right-to-left override character does. 18:16:47 Font metric file format used can support include files, so that you can have include files for various versions of Unicode. If the font is not Unicode, then you don't include any of them. 18:16:58 That would essentially require the font metric file to be able to execute arbitrary code inside your layout engine. 18:18:16 No, it is a kind of VM code, not native code, and it is a limited VM code for this purpose only. 18:19:17 Command can include registers, ligatures, kerning, subroutine calls, and vertical adjustments. 18:19:45 (It does not have to support loops) 18:20:13 Also, how would I avoid unicode in my terminal? No reasonable amount of text consists only of ASCII … 18:21:08 What is "reasonable amount of text" here? 18:22:55 That sentence, if you had cared to type it correctly. 18:24:18 No you should use only ASCII 18:24:23 It is simpler and more sensible. 18:25:23 I’m afraid my language doesn’t fit inside it either. 18:25:25 For one of my unfinished games I stored Greek and Cyrillic text as ASCII then printed it with a special font 18:25:53 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 18:26:02 oren: Well, it is one way. I tend to just use the PC character set, so there may be some Greek letters but no Cyrillic 18:26:47 Well my point is that's sort of like your font metrics approach. 18:27:25 the font had a glyph for a that was an alpha, a glyph for b as beta and so on 18:28:29 Yes, OK, in portable terminals I can use VT100 instead of PC characters 18:28:54 In the VT100 you might have two fonts, so one is used for line drawing and so on. 18:29:26 Although in the most recent versions of xterm you can even draw pictures 18:29:41 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:30:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 18:34:34 So my program has puttoscreen(X,Y,"[ari[a",CYRILLIC); and it writes царица to the screen 18:37:43 oren: What about chinese? 18:37:52 Arabic? 18:39:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:39:57 My game didn't have any arabic. It had some chinese as images. 18:42:59 The font for Cyrillic somewhat resembled KOI7 18:56:41 What if you're making a text editor? 18:57:02 And you don't really have a standard way to get graphics in terminals right now 18:57:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:57:50 oren: what is this game about? 19:06:06 You get graphics in terminals using Sixel format 19:06:50 (Still not all terminals will support it, but some VT terminals did and xterm does, although xterm supports Tektronix graphics as well.) 19:08:37 I used to have a VT510, I think it didn't support the fancy graphics stuff (that being the main difference between VT510 and VT520). 19:08:44 I don't think libvte terminals support sixels 19:09:01 After it caught fire, it no longer supported even text. 19:09:14 Sixels have limited bit depth too, because they were originally designed for line printers 19:15:30 xterm doesn't display sixels without the --enable-sixel-graphics option 19:15:55 Wait, that's not right 19:20:33 I can't figure out how to make xterm display sixels 19:21:21 Oh, it has to be compiled with sixel support 19:22:12 just use a font that supports braille 19:23:05 e.g. hexels 19:23:17 er, ocxels 19:23:19 fuck 19:23:24 oxels 19:25:35 Not a very good solution 19:26:04 meh, it's DWIT 19:26:57 http://thedailywtf.com/articles/FrontAhead-Design 19:31:22 ⣏⡉⡀⠀⡀⡀⣀ 19:31:25 ⡇⠀⢇⡠⡇⡏⠀⡇ 19:35:41 Melvar: https://i.imgur.com/44lP0FH.png 19:35:46 That's what it looks like in my terminal 19:37:34 Hmm, it's the fault of bitstream vera sans mono, it seems 19:37:40 It displays the empty spaces as empty circles 19:37:46 Which looks bad at small font sizes 19:38:35 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:39:57 FreeFull: It comes out similarly on my terminal except slightly better because maybe my font size is a bit bigger? It seems to pick FreeMono for me. 19:40:11 Oh, DejaVu Sans Mono does the same thing 19:40:46 FreeFull: I’m pretty sure DejaVu doesn’t have them, some other font gets picked to fill in. 19:40:56 Melvar: The problem is that I have DejaVu Sans Mono set as my font, and it provides its own symbols for those, which look bad 19:41:17 Oh, seems DejaVu Sans Mono doesn't have them 19:41:22 But DejaVu Sans does 19:41:27 And it's using the FreeMono ones 19:41:48 Dammit FreeMono 19:41:48 Ah, indeed, DejaVu Sans non-mono does have its own. 19:42:31 I am just using the standard "fixed" bitmap font 19:42:53 I'm going to see which package provides FreeMono and remove it 19:43:30 -!- t3cora_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:43:42 ttf-freefont 19:44:11 There, better 19:44:29 Thanks for helping me fix it 19:44:35 > let the⠀news = 3 in the⠀news 19:44:36 Not in scope: ‘the’Not in scope: ‘news’ 19:44:54 > let the news = 3 in the [] 19:44:56 3 19:45:13 > isSpace '⠀' 19:45:14 False 19:45:25 > isSpace '⠀' 19:45:27 False 19:45:39 I wonder why not. 19:45:46 `unidecode ⠀ 19:45:47 ​[U+2800 BRAILLE PATTERN BLANK] 19:46:11 -!- h0rsep0wer has left ("Leaving"). 19:46:32 > let (⠀) = 0 in (⠀) 19:46:33 0 19:47:41 > let the⠀news = 3 in some⠀words 19:47:43 Could not deduce (Alternative f0) arising from a use of ‘some’ 19:47:43 from the context (Num a) 19:47:43 bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a at Top level 19:48:06 > let the⠀news = 3 in any⠀words 19:48:08 Could not deduce (Foldable t0) arising from a use of ‘any’ 19:48:08 from the context (Num a) 19:48:08 bound by the inferred type of it :: Num a => a at Top level 19:56:42 -!- nortti has changed nick to wombatman. 19:57:02 -!- wombatman has changed nick to nortti. 20:09:49 -!- t3cora has joined. 20:15:41 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 20:46:05 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:55:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:04 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43678&oldid=43677 * Rdebath * (-268) These eight wrappers are the same length as very simple two cell wrappers. I see no point keeping them. 21:04:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:08:19 -!- boily has joined. 21:09:48 -!- isnaldo has joined. 21:12:08 Is there a resource in xterm that causes it to send the contents of that resource to itself when it starts or is reset? Such a thing can be used to change some settings that aren't available with other resources. 21:14:00 -!- mauris has joined. 21:14:54 `wisdom 21:14:58 grue/grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean 21:15:24 good wisdom 21:16:01 excellent wisdom. 21:22:09 The wisest 21:22:34 -!- isnaldo has left. 21:42:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:02:40 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:22:05 -!- tromp has joined. 22:25:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:26:25 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:32:33 -!- mauris_ has joined. 22:33:52 -!- mauris__ has joined. 22:34:11 -!- mauris has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:34:15 -!- mauris_ has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:34:19 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 22:38:46 @metar CYUL 22:38:46 CYUL 012237Z 29013G18KT 15SM -SHRA FEW007 FEW025CB BKN050 BKN075 19/16 A2975 RMK SF1CB2SC4AC1 SF TR PRESRR SLP073 DENSITY ALT 800FT 22:46:10 bhoily 22:46:26 @metar ENVA 22:46:26 ENVA 012220Z VRB02KT CAVOK 10/06 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 07004KT 22:48:23 bœrjanour. 22:48:32 it's not the size that counts, it's the relative humidity. 22:49:35 H2OKAY 22:50:10 i guess today was indeed relatively dry 22:50:20 also it started out warmer 22:52:19 I need a command to eliminate duplicates in my bash history 22:53:27 sort .bash_history | uniq >bash_history_copy && mv bash_history_copy .bash_history 22:53:29 ↑? 22:54:48 oren: include ignoredups or erasedups in the HISTCONTROL variable hth 22:57:35 probably the latter 23:00:39 boilty: that worked 23:00:58 there should be a version of uniq that doesn't require sorting 23:01:27 oren: my suggestion is for keeping it that way hth 23:01:54 although now my history is in alphabetical order from bash --version to xxd 23:02:21 as i said, there should have been a uniq version that worked without sorting 23:02:55 hmm what would be an efficieant algorithm for that? 23:03:32 with shell, probably you could use nl first to prepend line numbers 23:03:43 ah yeah that would work 23:04:06 maybe 23:04:10 and then whatever options to sort and uniq make them ignore the line numbers, and then a sort on the line numbers at the end 23:10:16 oretn: it's a known side-effect that sorting sorts data. 23:13:04 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:21:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:34:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:47:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:57:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:39 damned Prera. that thing is unwashable. 2015-08-02: 00:04:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:07:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:09:59 the one time i forgot a pen in the laundry went surprisingly well. it even wrote afterward. 00:10:23 i have, however, no intention of repeating such a mistake. 00:11:31 well i _think_ it wrote. my memory is a little vague. 00:11:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:18:15 oil based ballpoint probably would not cuase problems in the laundry 00:24:17 * boily keeps his pens away from his washing machine and oerjan 00:36:49 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 00:37:36 The DEC technical character set doesn't seem to work in this version of xterm 00:39:40 that's one bigass sum symbol... http://www.vt100.net/charsets/dec-technical-vt420-green.png 00:41:02 if I want to display nonunicode characters in a terminal, are there any magical escape sequences for that? 00:41:15 boily: yes, but it depends on what you mean by "nonunicode" 00:41:20 boily: what encoding are they in? 00:43:58 I want to use a different kind of character set that you can select subsets of, which can include all characters in: PC character set, all DEC character sets, Commodore 64, Apple MouseText, up to 256 user-defined characters, and probably also some more. 00:44:35 zzo38: I think all those are in Unicode? 00:44:57 No, not all of them are. 00:45:08 Neither is Infocom character graphics, the other one I missed 00:45:33 Some characters from some of these sets are, including the entire PC character set, but not all of the others 00:45:48 the "up to 256 user-defined characters" are 00:45:54 ais523: anything outside of unicode. mainly obscure platform-specific glyphs. 00:46:04 boily: oh, I see 00:46:11 incidentally, probably what zzo38 is looking for at. 00:46:17 there aren't any /standard/ codes for that because such a thing would have to be highly nonstandard 00:46:24 makes sense. 00:46:42 hmm... otoh, can I address individual pixels in a modern terminal and plot arbitrary data in it? 00:46:44 -!- lleu has joined. 00:46:44 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 00:46:44 -!- lleu has joined. 00:46:56 lleu, helleu. 00:47:06 boily: unless it's xterm, no 00:47:08 boily: You can use Sixel, but you have to start at a tile 00:47:20 xterm can emulate more than one terminal, and one of them is graphical 00:47:21 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:47:31 but it has codes that are nothing like a vt100 00:47:40 scow. too lazy to launch xterm. 00:48:03 Yes, it has codes from later DEC terminals as well, as well as several of its own codes. 00:49:45 :t any 00:49:47 Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool 00:51:56 > or (Just True) 00:51:58 True 00:52:47 > sum (Left "hi") 00:52:49 0 00:53:18 * oerjan lets it sink in 00:54:07 :t sum 00:54:08 (Num a, Foldable t) => t a -> a 00:54:22 Left "hi" is Either String a 00:54:31 So... uh... Num a implies having a zero? 00:54:37 yes 00:54:43 :t 0 00:54:44 Num a => a 00:55:09 also, defaulting to Integer 00:55:13 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:27 not having anything implies having a nothing. 00:55:38 > sum Nothing 00:55:39 0 00:56:23 LA LA LA CAN'T SEE ANYTHING LA LA LA ♪ 00:57:29 > length Nothing 00:57:31 0 00:58:17 > foldr (-) 0 (Just 1) 00:58:19 1 01:00:58 :t foldr 01:00:59 Foldable t => (a -> b -> b) -> b -> t a -> b 01:01:46 basically, most of the list functions got generalized 01:02:50 which is nice. but also stuff. 01:10:26 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:31:16 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:31:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOLVABLE CHICKEN). 02:06:10 -!- variable has joined. 02:16:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:23:03 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 02:30:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:41:26 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 02:42:20 -!- idris-bot has joined. 02:49:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:36:03 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:04:44 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:06:29 -!- FreeFull has joined. 04:10:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:34:28 Hoorah, I have met shachaf in meatspacde. 04:36:12 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 04:36:55 does he look like his SO profile picture 04:37:12 No. 04:37:18 wat 04:37:24 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: "thats fantastic :b"). 04:37:26 shachaf: this is outrageous! 04:40:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 04:48:34 Hellu 04:52:27 murning 05:38:54 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:40:33 Attempting to watch a TOS episode 05:40:34 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:40:39 The effects are so... bad 05:40:45 -!- Wright has joined. 05:42:08 By the standards of the day they were quite good. 05:42:21 Wait til you see contemporary Dr Who episodes. 05:44:47 I'm only watching this episode because I've seen multiple references to it and suggestions that it's really good 05:46:23 So I'm not sure what Dr Who episodes would be contemporary 05:54:19 And there's some stutter like the Rift gets if fps is too low 05:56:20 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:57:30 Hellu 05:57:46 zzo38: Hi 06:03:45 Oh crap I recognize this name from fanfiction :( 06:04:35 Which name? 06:04:36 Mine? 06:04:45 Sgeo 06:05:02 Wiit 06:05:08 *wait 06:05:36 Now that I've said that even if it wasn't me now you know... 06:05:38 Whoops 06:07:15 The name of a character in this episode 06:07:45 Oh 06:07:48 Also predicting atomic power would require more than "speculation" if you're not a physicist, so guessing "speculation" is a bad guess 06:09:01 Sorry for any spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it yet 06:10:20 I don't know what show you're talking about 06:10:21 So... 06:10:50 Star Trek The Original Series "City on the Edge of Forever" 06:10:57 And now I will stop looking at this channel 06:11:00 Or try to 06:11:07 Ah 06:15:46 What's with "6" in front of lyrics in the closed captions? 06:20:39 oerjan: pikhq must be confused. 06:21:27 i look a lot more like that picture than you do like http://stackoverflow.com/users/1088108/%C3%98rjan-johansen , i'm sure 06:21:41 and anyway who's to confirm i even met pikhq 06:24:02 clearly pikhq must have met an imposter, then 06:49:10 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 06:53:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:01:02 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:08:04 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 07:19:24 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 07:21:35 -!- tromp has joined. 07:25:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:48:27 -!- olsner has joined. 07:49:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:06:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:06:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZ). 08:35:47 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:09:02 -!- Wright has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:41:16 oh fuck them 09:41:35 another stupid webpage that gives only some stupid unusable javascript map for searching their shops, instead of a usable LIST 09:41:40 what are they thinking? 09:43:09 what do you mean? 09:43:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 09:52:28 -!- SopaLostPass has joined. 09:56:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:03:18 mroman: ok wait, let me explain. FooCorp is a very big faceless corporation that not only has a webpage, but also lots of real life buildings where clients can walk in and use their services. 10:04:01 As there's many such buildings, even within Budapest, I want to know which one to go to. This depends on the location, the opening hours, the services available there, and some other stuff. 10:04:45 FooCorp should put a list of their buildings on there homepage, in plain HTML format, giving the address, opening hour, and list of services, for each building. 10:05:44 They don't do that. Instead they have some unusable fancy combined server side and javascript search page, where you first have to specify in the search form which district you want shops in (so you can't just list all, but have to try all 20 possibilities), and then give some crazy javascript map page that I can't use, instead of a list of matches. 10:05:52 This is true for at least two values of FooCorp. 10:06:29 Their homepage is so unusable that I have to ask about the sites on phone or in person. 10:08:07 Is that clearer? 10:08:09 Yep. 10:08:14 Those pages suck. 10:08:31 It'd be easier to grep a text file . 10:08:49 Yes, at least as an alternative. 10:11:15 For at least one value of FooCorp, I had actually asked by phone, and then just found out that they gave an incorrect answer (unless it's changed recently). 10:12:46 For another value of FooCorp, I'm not sure what to call by phone, because they don't generally do business by phone, and don't seem to have a general information phone line as far as I'm aware (maybe they do, but I can't find that from their homepage). 10:13:55 And when I said "faceless", I mean the individual workers I meet often don't know more than what's necessary for their job, so in person they usually can't tell me about the other sites. 10:15:39 I don't know whether if I call them by phone they have to use the same stupid javascript thingy (which however may actually work slightly better on their work machines) or they have something better. 10:15:59 This may depend on the value of FooCorp and my question. 10:19:04 Information like this changes quickly enough that lists made by third parties are usually obsolate. 10:33:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:07:06 -!- SopaLostPass has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:30:30 -!- boily has joined. 11:49:19 -!- Froox has joined. 11:51:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:51:48 -!- atslash has joined. 11:55:55 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:56:13 -!- atslash has joined. 12:18:43 -!- lleu has joined. 12:18:43 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 12:18:43 -!- lleu has joined. 12:43:15 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:45:43 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:06:34 -!- mauris has joined. 13:09:38 -!- ski has joined. 13:26:07 `wisdom 13:26:11 copumpkin/copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president. 13:27:22 @tell copumpkin come back here you vile cocucurbitaceæ! 13:27:22 Consider it noted. 13:30:24 `wisdom 13:30:25 justice/Justice is just behavior or treatment. 13:30:30 `wisdom 13:30:31 output/ 13:30:44 `` culprits wisdom/output 13:30:47 oerjan elliott olsner 13:46:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SIPHONOPHORE CHICKEN). 13:47:59 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:53:46 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:08:07 -!- tromp has joined. 14:20:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:31:34 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:12:17 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:23:23 Wisdom from the neural net: 15:23:24 01:00:02: I don't know. There's a program on the different commands and a constant thing that aren't the same as a human function that is the same as a language to get a specific article. 15:24:17 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:24:48 Hellu! 15:27:18 helloren 15:30:45 -!- heroux has joined. 15:31:30 fungot: Wisdom from the n-gram synthesis? 15:31:30 fizzie: for example, write a glass interpreter in c. code has no memory model. all models are wrong. 15:40:18 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:45:05 -!- heroux has joined. 15:45:32 I just learnt that M:tG isn't the only game with a flaming horse. There's a flaming horse pokémon too. 15:46:21 (Ponyta) 15:51:27 and rapidash 15:52:02 its evolved form, yes 15:52:19 I guess fire, ice, and water versions of every popular animal exists in fiction 15:54:29 also dire and celestial and giant versions, plus miniature versions of every animal that isn't already small or smaller 16:02:45 Wait wtf?! unicode includes a ㋼ but no circled ン? 16:03:12 who even uses a ヰ let alone a circled one?!?! 16:05:00 how are Pokémons in different generation Pokémon games so similar? 16:05:49 oren: why would you need a circled n? 16:06:18 aren't these for bullet headings or things like that? 16:06:39 I though they were for trademarks? 16:06:51 trademarks? how so 16:07:26 Like some store might but each kana of their name in a circle? 16:07:41 trademarks is ™ 16:08:40 oren: um... I don't see how that would work. you could use a circled single kana as a trade mark, but it would be a logo, not a character. 16:09:30 I don't see why you'd do it for every character in a name though, unless you somehow associate a different product with each of them, like one for coke, one for fruit juice, one for ginger ale, one for tonic 16:11:46 One of the first results searching for ㋐ is a japanese forum where someone is asking why the character exists 16:12:17 I can see that, but I still don't see why you'd need a circled n character 16:12:36 For completeness 16:13:12 If you're going to have wi, which isn't even used much anymore, you should have n, which is. 16:13:57 wi isn't used in words, but it's still known to exist in the series of kana, so I imagine someone might use it if he starts numbering passages with letters 16:14:39 eg. in a hungarian book or law, if points are marked with letters of the alphabet starting with a, b, c; it will use "q" eventually in a long enough list even though "q" doesn't usually appear in Hungarian words 16:14:55 that makes sense 16:15:31 I don't know whether a list marked with kana would use wi, and it may depend 16:16:57 btw, these lists get horribly inconsistent when they need just a few more items than there are letters in the alphabet 16:17:33 most of the time they're used only when they need between 2 and about 13 items only 16:18:53 For lists in English texts I've seen numbers, letters, roman numbers, lowercase roman numbers, and in one case greek letters. 16:20:15 I think Excel goes A...Z,AA,AB,...AZ,BA 16:22:17 What numbering schemes does HTML support? 16:23:09 oren: quite a few, check the css documents 16:24:02 the AA thing apparently works with type="a" 16:24:25 oren: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/list-style-type 16:26:06 apparently css even allows you to create new list numbering styles 16:26:10 http://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/#counter-style 16:27:38 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:27:44 it's quite complicated 16:29:09 http://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/#predefined-counters lists the predefined styles 16:35:15 apparently the CSS standard draft guys are perfectionists 16:47:21 counter-style cjk-earthly-branch 16:47:25 .... wow. 16:50:02 OH! they didn't include circled ン because ン doesn't appear in the iroha 16:52:43 and thus when things are numbered by the iroha you don't need it 16:56:42 oren: why is ン considered a "real" kana in first place when ー isn't? 16:59:25 it used to be mu 17:01:15 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:24 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:01:33 -!- tromp has joined. 17:01:45 -!- heroux has joined. 17:02:52 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:33 b_jonas: not sure 17:07:41 Well I mean it was introduced later than the other kana. 17:12:05 but then, the letters w and v are newer 17:12:49 is 17:13:17 is å counted as a letter? 17:13:50 oren: it's certainly a letter, the question is whether it's considered an accented version of a or a separate letter 17:13:58 right 17:14:11 but I'm not sure I care about those distinctions 17:14:13 they're sort of pointless 17:14:26 it's like when people discuss which digraphs count as letters 17:14:49 the actually relevant points are how stuff are sorted in which traditional alphabetic order, 17:15:00 and there's like a separate order per language, or sometimes two or three of them, 17:15:08 plus what letters count as the same in crossword puzzles. 17:15:27 But I guess the question is if Excel had been invented in Norway would å be a column head? 17:15:50 oren: oh, there's that too, yes 17:16:13 oren: I'm quite sure that ö is never used in any of the listings for Hungarian, 17:16:32 though a few use "sz" or "zs" or other digraphs, but those are rare too, they mostly come up when they run out of letters 17:16:52 the most important actual variation is actually whether they include only "i" or only "j" or both "i" and "j" 17:17:01 there are conflicting traditions on that 17:18:06 there's also some variations on how strings with spaces are sorted 17:20:06 luckily how strings without spaces are sorted is quite fixed in Hungarian, there's only one order 17:20:39 (technically, how dzs is sorted may have changed around the 80s when they turned it officially to a letter, but I don't think that ever comes up as a difference in any list of real strings) 17:21:31 (you'd basically need a string that can be continued with both "dzs" and "dzú" or something, and "dz" is a pretty rare letter in the first place) 17:21:52 is "dzs" one square in a crossword puzzle 17:24:08 mauris: no. even "sz" is two squares 17:24:12 crosswords have their own crazy rules 17:24:23 however, "sz" is one square in Scrabble 17:24:25 so it's complicated 17:26:07 where crosswords differ is whether some vowels are allowed to be considered the same (so the horizontal word can contain one vowel but the vertical word a different one), and I think it's sort of an implementation quality thing in crosswords, as in, a crossword is "better" if it considers each 14 vowels different 17:32:24 In German, crosswords universally require äöüß to be written as ae, oe, ue, ss. 17:33:01 Melvar: wow, I didn't know that 17:33:08 I wouldn't have guessed about ae oe ue 17:33:22 Writing ß as ss makes sense of course 17:33:49 the only time vowels are written as two vowels are very old telegram/telex messages. 17:33:57 in Hungarian that is 17:38:16 < b_jonas> how are Pokémons in different generation Pokémon games so similar? – Could you be more specific? Do you mean the ones that obviously occupy similar ecological niches in different regions? 17:39:31 (And similar niches regarding players and npcs.) 17:40:58 Melvar: no, I mean most pokémons from generation 1 pokémon seem to exist in all later generations with the same name and type and generally the same proeprties or very similar properties 17:42:01 despite that there's been decades of the consoles and games improving tech wise 17:42:17 Oh. They’re the same ones. AFAIK Pokémon have never been removed from the national dex, only added. 17:42:40 exactly 17:43:20 I’m not sure what you mean by why there. It’s all the same world, canonically. 17:43:24 well some have been given new types 17:43:32 the same world, so the pokémons exist in the story 17:43:51 the strange part is that they're all (or most of them) still in the game and catchable and playable 17:43:58 electrode was pure electric in earlier games and became electric/steel 17:44:09 and the properties that matter in play, such as moves or how they evolve, are very similar too 17:44:16 oren: You’re thinking of the magnemite line, not electrode. 17:44:32 oh right 17:45:12 I mostly stopped playing after silver. (I beat a few of the newer games, but stopped playing after I beat them) 17:45:19 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:45:29 b_jonas: Generally they keep getting new moves as moves are added, but they generally keep being able to learn all the ones they could in earlier generations. 17:45:44 I’m just not sure what you find strange about it. 17:45:44 Melvar: I see 17:46:27 Melvar: dunno, are there any other series of games where the games are two decades apart, and have actually using two decades newer technology, but are so similar to each other? 17:47:08 Hmmm... what about the handheld 2D Zelda games 17:47:09 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:47:14 -!- atehwa has joined. 17:47:39 -!- villasukka has joined. 17:47:45 compare the gameplay of Links awakening to misih cap 17:47:49 *minish cap 17:48:07 Well, I can think of one example, tetris games are somewhat similar until you start to do crazy tricks 17:48:57 Hmm... the PC Touhou series started in 2002 17:49:04 So that's one decade 17:49:16 There are a bunch of subtleties with mechanics being added and changed that make the later games play somewhat differently in some respects. So matchups might have quite different results. 17:49:36 and no characters have been removed from the Touhou universe 17:49:51 (since the PC era anyway) 17:50:08 well, some tetris games. not all. 17:50:55 b_jonas: If you have all the right hardware and software versions and stuff, you can probably still transfer a third-generation pokemon over all the way to the sixth. Also between the first and second, but between second and third there is no connectivity. 17:52:17 Street Fighter! AFAIK most characters from the original are in the most recent one 17:52:28 Melvar: yes, that makes it even more amazing. 17:52:45 oren: oh true, there's Mortal Kombat too 17:52:58 which has lots of common characters 17:53:11 some characters are removed in some later games, but still 17:54:19 b_jonas: Basically, most of the times they were like “transfer pokémon from the previous generation!” So necessarily everything needed to support the previous stuff. 17:54:30 Melvar: I see 17:56:03 M:tG is sort of an example, with two decades of support of strange old cards on paper, and one decade in video games 17:57:19 Whether that’s the actual reason, I don’t know. It may well also have been a highly successful strategy to lure people from one generation to the next. 17:57:44 Also there’s the remakes. 17:58:32 Nintendo knows that I will buy a game over and over again 17:58:32 wait, Panglacial Wurm is from Coldsnap? 17:58:35 that's CRAZY 17:58:43 (Gen 3 included remakes of the main Gen 1 games, Gen 4 of Gen 2, Gen 6 of Gen 3.) 17:58:44 I thought it was an old card 17:58:52 which would explain why it has such a strange ability 17:59:02 but it's a new one, printed _knowing_ it's a strange ability 17:59:12 wtf did they do that? 17:59:35 did that strange mechanic exist on an older card? 17:59:43 * Melvar is currently playing a Gen 3 pokémon game … emulated on his phone. 18:00:09 I don't think it did 18:00:10 I don't feel guilty emulating nintendo games that I've bought three times 18:00:31 To be sure, shachaf looks more like SO shachaf than oerjan looks like SO oerjan, I'm sure. 18:03:23 -!- tromp has joined. 18:05:00 I'm not on StackOverflow 18:05:24 I should put a picture of myself on my website... 18:07:32 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:18:51 Conservapedia says that Wikipedia's article about Riemann "contains little discussion of Riemann's faith and tries to downplay his fundamentalism as though it were merely a passing interest as a teenager". I have looked; it seems to contain a reasonable amount of discussion to me, and the other criticisms Conservapedia makes are also invalid, although perhaps this information could be made easier to find; currently information about his religious be 18:28:35 Conservapedia also seems to misunderstand what the word "mythology" even means. 18:39:07 Hmm, I'm actually using two pinned windows now. Maybe I should reinstate the keyboard shortcut for pinning a window when I rework my window manager configuration. 18:39:13 I didn't use to use pinned windows much 18:46:27 What window manager is that? 18:46:39 zzo38: icewm 18:47:00 pinned means it stays on the screen when I switch between "virtual desktops" 18:48:17 and I'll want to rework the window manager configuration a bit anyway, though I won't change anything really significant, but I want to set it up so I can control two nested instances (such as inside and outside vnc) so there's two variations of the wm config with the more important keyboard shortcuts duplicated in some consistent manner (eg. with or without shift) 18:56:19 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:33 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 18:57:56 I also don't know of other cards with Panglacial Wurm's special ability 18:59:26 It does mean you can use mana abilities while searching your library; see which cases it helps with 19:00:22 zzo38: yep, and I was wondering if a mana ability could somehow cause to end your turn during searching your library, and what would happen then with the rest of the effects on the spell you're resolving 19:00:40 eg. at what step would you put the land you searched for into play 19:01:00 Yes, there is that too, but I don't know of any mana abilities that end your turn immediately 19:01:05 or whether there's some multiplayer shenenigans 19:01:23 zzo38: not immediately, but as some multi-step consequence of say sacrificing permanents 19:01:42 but it's hard because most of the tricky things don't happen immediately, but only as triggers or state-based effects 19:01:59 Yes that is what I thought. 19:02:19 the rulings mention that you can mill your library while searching using Panglacial 19:02:24 But it can be of interest if a puzzle is made up that involves this using the mana abilities while searching your library. 19:03:15 Yes, you can know what the top card of your library is and use this to determine whether or not you want to discard it due to Millikin 19:03:46 sure, but that's not really breaking anything 19:03:52 there are easier ways to know what's in your library 19:04:47 I was wondering if there's some way to search your library but not shuffle afterwards, but it's probably both impossible and wouldn't be interesting, because the rules don't actually permit you to rearrange your library when searching technically 19:04:58 Yes, although it is still one way, such as if that is all you have available 19:05:20 (except that you can lose the game, but then your library won't be interesting anymore)_ 19:08:16 Unrelated to Panglacial, there's one rules thing that I don't understand. 19:08:27 What rule is it? 19:09:33 There are actions in the rules that are supposed to happen "at the same time", and this can involve putting multiple cards onto the battlefield, and that happens fast enough that the Ally trigger on each of them happens. 19:10:05 But consider Land Equilibrium. This has a replacement ability that can replace putting a card onto the battlefield with two events that aren't supposed to happen at the same time. 19:10:20 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:10:20 What happens when Land Equilibrium replaces putting one of multiple cards onto the battlefield? 19:10:34 In what order and speed do the events happen then? 19:10:49 -!- pdxleif has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:50 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:50 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:50 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:51 -!- jix_ has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:51 -!- sunnymilk has quit (*.net *.split). 19:10:55 -!- b_jonas has joined. 19:10:56 -!- jix has joined. 19:10:56 -!- nortti has joined. 19:10:59 -!- int-e has joined. 19:11:09 -!- sunnymilk has joined. 19:11:25 -!- pdxleif has joined. 19:11:27 I don't know, maybe if you read the rules you can figure out 19:11:33 Uh, irc server shut down. How much did I get through? 19:11:40 What happens when Land Equilibrium replaces putting one of multiple cards onto the battlefield? 19:11:46 In what order and speed do the events happen then? 19:12:01 Obviously I don't believe that "at the same time" actually means at the same time, it's just fast enough that some things aren't checked in between by the rules. 19:12:16 But still, I don't know what happens with a replace like this, and I haven't seen a relevant rule. 19:12:52 Luckily such replacement effects seem to be rare. 19:13:14 Sheltered Valley has another one. 19:13:37 But Land Equilibrium is probably the best. 19:15:39 There is one of my own card that has a mana ability that counters all spells with split-second ability 19:16:37 zzo38: one what? 19:17:52 which card is that? I don't see it in http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt 19:18:07 and can it counter a spell during paying its cost? 19:20:26 It is a mana ability, so it can work even while spells with split-second are on the stack, and when you can use mana abilities (such as with Panglacial Wurm) 19:20:57 It is "Stone of Interruption" 19:22:34 zzo38: great, I think you can use that during paying for a Stone of Interruption that you started to cast 19:23:01 Yes 19:23:24 Is it also possible to somehow use it to counter a split second spell while it's resolving? I don't remember what split second spells there are 19:23:31 I also have "Kjugobe's Psychic Control" which grants another spell a split second ability 19:24:51 Also I think you can still face morph cards when spells with split second are on the stack 19:25:00 I was thinking of an instant with "Turn target spell face down.", let's call this Pongify Spell. How much would that break the rules, now that we can manifest sorceries? 19:26:24 wow, you've made a lot of new cards. I'll have to look at them later. 19:26:27 I don't quite know, although I did make a card that has "Manifest target spell" 19:27:11 What? "Manifest target spell"? what does that do if that spell isn't a card (but a copy of a spell)? 19:28:18 I don't know, although I have made up a rule that makes spells that aren't represented as cards to come into play as tokens 19:28:50 Possibly studying the other rules, can figure out more 19:28:51 UVC, or Unicode Vernacular C, is a dialect of C in which certain unicode characters may be used in place of certain sequences of ASCII characters. 19:30:12 Spells that come into play as tokens, such as when they resolve? Now that's scary. 19:30:53 Yes, such as if you make a copy of an enchantment spell or creature spell or whatever 19:31:00 That'd need a careful modification of that tricky rule that gives all the exceptions of when an effect can follow an object moving through zones. 19:31:06 for example, ≥ ≤ and ≡ may be used instead of <= >= == respectively 19:31:43 oren: there seems to be something like that for Haskell, used in all kinds of articles printing haskell code 19:31:52 research articles 19:32:07 I don't think I've seen it with C yet 19:33:42 eg. for haskell, there are characters representing each of ++ -> <- :: 19:33:56 and more symbol combinations that I don't remember right now 19:38:32 for completeness for C++, we need characters for >= <= == != << >> ++ -- // /* */ && || :: -> 19:43:50 oren: also for ... 19:44:31 oren: and possibly for /= *= += -= <<= >>= &= ^= |= 19:44:48 also possibly for [[ and ]] which aren't really digraphs 19:44:52 and definitely for ## 19:45:26 also definitely for -> .* ->* 19:45:43 -> is very common 19:46:47 ≥≤≡≠≪≫║∷→ 19:47:19 oren: … 19:47:25 for logical and and or ∧ ∨ would make sense 19:47:36 oren: I wouldn't like that, no 19:47:41 why 19:47:44 especially not with ^ 19:48:02 well obviously we would not use ^ for that 19:48:12 apparently the better convention is to use & | circledplus for bitwise ops 19:48:30 and forget abut vee and wedge in that context 19:48:40 ⊕ 19:48:57 yeah that 19:49:01 I actually have that in my font 19:49:27 -!- x10A94 has joined. 20:15:33 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:46:24 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:58:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:00:03 Accept = backspace / or / backspace = as an alternative to != then 21:06:06 Ooh, we're talking about Magic. 21:07:13 Are spell permanents, and spell cards in hand, actually spells? 21:07:19 No 21:07:26 Only on the stack count as spells 21:07:59 When you target a spell, you can only target a spell on the stack. 21:08:45 So "turn target spell face down" would necessarily act on a spell on the stack. 21:10:14 Yes 21:12:35 Then the rules say it would "have no characteristics other than those listed by" the thing that let you turn it face down. So if the instant just said to turn it face down, it would end up with no characteristics at all. 21:13:17 tswett: what zzo38 says, except note that "spell" is used in a different meaning in the phrase "spell type". 21:13:45 tswett: what? wouldn't it still be a 2/2 creature 21:14:03 I thought it might be a 2/2 creature with a mana cost of {3} and nothing else 21:14:05 maybe not while on the stack 21:14:09 I dunno 21:14:12 b_jonas: that only applies to permanents turned face down, not spells. 21:14:23 (Although you don't have to pay the mana cost in this case anyways) 21:14:33 Also, apparently if a permanent is turned face down, it has no mana cost. 21:14:42 oh wait, does Nix works on a face down spell? 21:14:47 O, OK 21:14:48 one cast with morph specifically? 21:14:55 oh wait 21:14:57 b_jonas: I would think it works on any spell cast without paying any mana. 21:15:00 Nix doesn't work like that 21:15:09 yeah, Nix doesn't care about the mana cost or converted mana cost 21:15:09 A spell cast with morph was paid with three mana, so it can't be used 21:15:16 which conterspells care about that? 21:15:46 So what happens when a spell with no characteristics and no text resolves? 21:15:48 And then, there is my "Phyrexian Nix" variant 21:16:17 Does it go to the graveyard, and thus get turned face up again? 21:16:23 tswett: I would do, it just comes into play; if for some reason it cannot, it goes to the graveyard instead. 21:16:24 Dispersal Shield 21:16:43 so how does Dispersal Shield work with a spell cast face down using morph? 21:16:50 But what do the rules say happens? 21:16:52 (I knew I had such a counterspell) 21:17:26 tswett: it should come to play face down as part of resolving, without getting turned face up, I think 21:17:28 I don't know; what does that card say? 21:17:59 zzo38: Dispersal Shield is an Instant with "Counter target spell if its converted mana cost is less than or equal to the highest converted mana cost among permanents you control." 21:18:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:18:52 it's one of those multiple cards from the Onslaught block that care about Scornful Egoist 21:19:08 Scornful Egotist 21:25:55 There's a lot of other counterspells that care about cmc, including Disdainful Stroke; Disrupting Shoal; Induce Paranoia; Overwhelming Intellect; Prohibit; Rethink; Spell Burst; Spell Blast (wow, it has remainder text for cmc, they're finally starting to put SANE remainder text on cards, great!); Thoughtbind. 21:26:34 The most famous such counterspell is probably Mana Drain. 21:28:52 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:32:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:34:06 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:34:29 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:36:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:39:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 21:58:06 huge thuderstorm here. my power's probably going to go out 21:58:29 oren, good luck 21:58:43 those bloody incompetents at toronto hydro can't waterproof anything 21:59:03 @metar CYYZ 21:59:03 CYYZ 022151Z 22013G51KT 210V300 5SM +TSRA FEW009 BKN026CB OVC250 18/14 A2976 RMK SF2CB4CI2 FRQ LTGIC ALQDS WSHFT 2143 PRESFR SLP078 DENSITY ALT 1200FT 21:59:35 gusting 51 knots! crazy 21:59:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:00:03 Wooow 22:00:34 oren, the highest the weather station I use has ever seen was 62 knots 22:00:43 And that was... last year 22:03:36 it has settleed down a little 22:04:06 yeah it's down to a drizzle. 22:06:31 but my power could still go out, when the water sinks into the earth and fucks up the cables 22:06:51 hm i haven't looked at the blitzersomething site in a while 22:07:40 blitzortung 22:08:29 oh they have a world map now 22:09:14 something's definitely happening in the lakes area 22:09:15 What is that? 22:09:23 Oh, the thundermap thing 22:10:32 hm it disconnected 22:20:25 I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 22:20:48 dieareses 22:20:59 fuck I can't spell that bullshit 22:21:22 diaeresis 22:22:43 `addquote I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 22:22:49 1251) I'm making a new font. I'm up to the capital E with diarhea 22:23:39 let this be a warning to other fontomaniacs 22:24:25 lol 22:24:31 I'm not sure what the distinction is between SO shachaf and shachaf. 22:24:38 they're the same person hth 22:25:11 you're just shachaf. the other one is SO shachaf. hth. 22:25:12 Also http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png is my picture almost everywhere. I'm not sure why you picked SO. 22:25:13 shachaf, SO shachaf is unbelievably shachaf. He is so shachaf I can't even handle how shachaf he is 22:25:43 shachaf: easiest to find at a moment's notice? 22:25:46 the number 8 should formally be decomposable as o with ring above 22:26:00 I use http://slbkbs.org/yawg-prime.png at work so I don't confuse different accounts. 22:26:52 It's a bit more professional. 22:27:17 er... 22:27:24 * oerjan skeptical 22:27:40 oerjan, I don't see why 22:27:46 That is a really professional picture 22:28:10 i think it's a bit spotty 22:28:21 It's a yo dawg. 22:28:40 ...ah 22:28:44 Anyway I am going to go to bed now 22:29:06 say hi to the monster 22:31:00 oerjan, the monster quit a while back due to unworkable conditions 22:31:20 ah. 22:32:33 Which really days tell me that I ought to tidy my room 22:33:15 figures 22:37:47 -!- variable has joined. 22:41:04 `` hg log wisdom/output | grep Summary 22:41:06 No output. 22:41:14 `` hg log wisdom/output 22:41:15 changeset: 3516:086a7a03de20 \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Aug 28 21:11:30 2013 +0000 \ summary: touch wisdom/output 22:41:20 `` hg log wisdom/output | grep summary 22:41:22 summary: touch wisdom/output 22:41:26 ah. 22:41:50 `rm wisdom/output 22:41:52 No output. 22:42:04 ...oh. 22:42:37 `revert 22:42:45 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 22:43:00 that's p. clever 22:43:46 much of the wisdom is not `wisdom-compatible 22:44:40 Oh, wait. 22:44:54 I thought it was a trap set for oerjan that prints "No output." when you rm it. 22:44:57 But it also works with `? 22:45:37 * pikhq sits down and attempts not to explode 22:45:59 pikhq: too much nitroglycerin? 22:46:48 spot of the nitroglycerin, governor? 22:51:38 i see you're going boom or bust with your meme 22:52:07 please don't call it that tdnh 22:52:39 mediocreme 23:01:28 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:01:30 now why would I touch wisdom/output 23:02:13 whoa whoa whoa 23:02:16 hellolsner 23:06:36 shalomchaf 23:06:58 ...why have i never thought of that one. 23:07:02 oerjan: you have hth 23:07:21 O KAY 23:07:44 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-06-30#225319oerjan 23:10:38 must have been an impersonator 23:11:31 imitatørjan 23:12:36 `? wisdom 23:12:37 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:12:42 `? wisdom 23:12:44 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:12:50 `wisdom 23:12:51 hand/A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird. 23:12:56 `wisdom 23:12:58 phantom__________hoover/OK you got me there. 23:13:13 see? another non-`wisdom compatible one. 23:13:27 what? 23:15:12 -!- wqe23 has joined. 23:15:27 -!- wqe23 has left ("Leaving"). 23:17:57 `` for n in `seq 1 3`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:17:59 1: Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. \ 2: Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is. \ 3: Phantom___Hoover sucks at ghosting himself. 23:18:01 `` for n in `seq 4 6`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:18:02 4: phantom____hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 5: phantom_____hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 6: phantom______hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:18:05 `` for n in `seq 7 9`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:18:07 7: It doesn't get any better than this. \ 8: phantom________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 9: phantom_________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:18:08 `` for n in `seq 10 12`; do u="$(perl -e "print '_' x $n")"; echo -n "$n: "; \? phantom${u}hoover; done 23:18:10 10: OK you got me there. \ 11: phantom___________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ 12: phantom____________hoover? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:20:37 So now I have the characters from ASCII and Latin-1 23:21:03 I think I'll take a break, then add Greek and Katakana 23:21:19 Oh, and all the DF characters 23:23:55 yeah gotta get cp-437 as soon as possible 23:24:25 oren: you have those characters in what? 23:24:30 oren: are you making a font? 23:24:31 my font 23:24:33 great! 23:24:35 Yeah 23:24:49 hold on I'll screenshot 23:24:55 I already have all of cp-437 and iso-8859-1 in my font, those were in my original goal 23:26:42 I also have all of iso-8859-2, cp-1252 (new version), cp-1250 (new version), and I think I also might have all of iso-8859-4, iso-8859-15, iso-8859-16 (which is actually covered by a union of the previous ones) but I'm not quite sure 23:27:20 I even have glyphs for all the control characters in iso-8859-1, though those don't display in terminal windows :-) 23:27:35 however, I only have a few of greek, and no Katakana 23:27:55 and the greek is very ugly, I added it only to see maths formulas a bit 23:29:01 http://www.orenwatson.be/screen1.png 23:29:22 when you do greek, make sure to be able to spell διάῤῥοια properly twh 23:30:22 seems I have all of latin-1 but not all of Windows-1252 23:30:23 wow, that looks nice. can you also show a screenshot with some longer text in a natural language? 23:30:50 yeah hold on I'll screenshot this 23:31:40 is that all printable cp-1252 characters shown? 23:31:56 http://www.orenwatson.be/screen3.png 23:32:03 this font looks nice 23:32:06 yeah but I'm apparently missing a lot 23:32:23 nice and of distinguishable characters 23:33:27 7 has a stroke and 1 has a tick, the way I write them 23:34:08 I should put up a sane screenshot of my font and link it 23:34:15 currently all I have is http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-cp437.png 23:35:04 (and http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/stickfont-screenshot0.png of a different old font, one that's for crazy decorative headings rather than for body text) 23:35:08 I made a compromise by shrinking the capitals to make room for their accents 23:35:33 blackboard bold, nice 23:37:54 -!- tromp has joined. 23:38:05 ok, so what should I put in the screenshot(s)? I'll certainly put http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/versw , then maybe http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/verst and its English original so there's English text too. But I also need some way to list many characters, such as all cp437 or all cp1250 etc. What encodings? Should I show literally all glyphs in unicode order? 23:38:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:38:37 Hellu 23:38:56 And I might want to show some program code too. What's a good example of C code I can show? 23:39:15 I have developed a spontaneous interest in quantum computing 23:39:23 hppavilion[1]: oh dear 23:39:24 And will now proceed to talk about it incessantly 23:39:30 :P 23:39:41 After I figure out how the hell quantum physics works 23:39:50 > fix not 23:39:53 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 23:40:05 So 23:40:06 I recommend reading some books on the subject 23:40:21 I have not done so, however, so... 23:40:31 I don't know anything about it 23:40:37 I figured out that this non-esolang I started designing a while back would be particularly useful in QC 23:40:57 Because you can, effectively, _define_ kewords 23:40:59 Sort of like in haskell 23:41:01 oren: I don't think I like the "ð" in your font 23:41:23 So one could make an easy operation for quantum logic gates 23:41:26 though I'm not saying I know how to improve it 23:41:35 Oooh 23:41:38 Is someone making a font? 23:42:00 oren: this one looks more like a reversed delta to me 23:42:18 hppavilion[1]: i predict that your talk will not be able to stay coherent hth 23:42:24 hppavilion[1]: oren is, http://www.orenwatson.be/screen3.png http://www.orenwatson.be/screen1.png 23:42:41 hehe, that's a HORRIBLE pun 23:43:57 * oerjan bows 23:44:57 oren: is "—" from your font or substituted? it looks too similar to "-" 23:45:43 Maybe I should shorten my hyphen-minus 23:46:30 yeah then it wouldn't look the same as my em-dash 23:47:13 I consider "-" the most important (mostly because it occurs a lot in program code), so I don't make compromises about it. I have a bulge under "–" and two bulges under "—". "‐" is short but two pixels thick. 23:48:40 I also have distinguishable glyphs for "‒" and "−" and "­" 23:49:09 I for one think "-" should be long, but it's your choice of course. 23:49:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:50:11 hmm bumps would work 23:50:25 or maybe I'll just change the height slightly 23:50:46 also, I find your "¼½¾" hard to read. what if you made the slash thinner or removed it entirely to allow for the digits to be bigger? 23:51:14 I think I also have a glyphs that's a hyphen with a dot over or under it, but I don't recall which character it was. Let me check. 23:52:11 @let type S = (Num n) => State n 23:52:12 .L.hs:156:21: 23:52:12 Expecting one more argument to ‘State n’ 23:52:12 Expected a type, but ‘State n’ has kind ‘* -> *’ 23:52:30 hmph 23:52:45 oh it wasn't the library type 23:52:56 @let type S = (Num n) => [n] 23:52:56 .L.hs:156:10: Warning: 23:52:57 Variable ‘n’ is implicitly quantified due to a context 23:52:57 Use explicit forall syntax instead. 23:53:08 ok it's just a warning 23:53:21 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:53:25 hmm no, I don't have just a glyph. maybe I had one in a previous version. 23:55:25 I guess I could show all characters in my font in rows of 16 unicode characters, with the code before each row. that would identify each character (except possibly missing characters, which I'll have to mark somehow, maybe with a blue middle dot or something). 23:58:05 Oh well, I'll figure this screenshot thing out later. Good night for now. 23:58:47 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:58:48 And good luck with your font, oren. 2015-08-03: 00:01:57 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 00:01:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:10:06 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:10:43 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:13:24 good night 00:13:51 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:14:27 -!- _256Q has joined. 00:16:47 -!- Wright has joined. 00:18:17 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:20:58 -!- mauris has joined. 00:25:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:28:47 -!- mauris_ has joined. 00:32:27 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:34:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:41:17 -!- tromp has joined. 00:45:25 -!- mauris_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:46:12 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:46:47 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:54:52 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:04:37 -!- rg_ has joined. 01:06:56 I would want a variant of the "fixed" font that is also including the DEC technical characters, and preferably also support for PC character set and PETSCII, and possibly also the Infocom character graphics 01:16:43 -!- Aearnus has joined. 01:24:50 A new kind of Magic: the Gathering card: "At the beginning of each combat damage step, the active player chooses and taps a land he controls, and then if it is not your turn the active player draws a card." 01:28:37 s/taps a land/taps an untapped land/ 01:31:03 I need to learn MtG 01:33:51 zzo38: A real Magic: The Gathering card would say "a land he or she controls" 01:33:52 > 2 ≥ 1 01:33:53 Not in scope: ‘≥’ 01:33:56 bah 01:34:30 shachaf: Yes 01:35:21 > (\x → x) 1 01:35:23 1 01:35:32 zzo38: I'm not sure I follow that card. 01:35:42 "active player" is the same as "the player whose turn it is", right? 01:36:22 Yes. For the card drawing effect, it must be your teammate or your opponent, but the other effect includes everyone (unless that player controls no untapped lands) 01:36:47 So the card helps everyone except you? 01:37:01 I must be missing something. 01:37:02 If you have a card that lets you draw cad instead of opponent, then you will draw a card, but it still doesn't work during your own turn. 01:37:50 And if you have Underworld Dreams, then opponent will both draw a card and lose 1 life point. 01:39:58 (You can also donate it to allow you to draw a card, or steal such a card from opponent to prevent yourself from drawing a card.) 01:40:51 Drawing a card and losing a life is almost always beneficial for your opponent, isn't it? 01:41:17 I'm not sure whether there are any cards that have negative effects and require Donate to be useful. 01:41:36 Clearly it depends on the circumstances, such as their current life points, how many cards remain in their library, and effects that depend on how many cards are in some player's hand. 01:42:29 There are things like Demonic Pact. 01:48:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:34 OK, I can see that now too 02:01:23 Now I have all of cp-437 02:04:50 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:05:24 Later I'll go back and increase coverage to entire unicode blocks 02:09:52 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:14:25 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:15:59 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:18:02 LATIN EXTENDED A is done 02:19:07 Er, wait wat 02:19:36 Ok apparently there is Latin-1 then Latin-A then Latin-B. WTF 02:25:05 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:32:51 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:32:55 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 03:02:10 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:02:31 -!- Wright has joined. 03:04:59 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:14:21 -!- rg_ has joined. 03:17:06 * oerjan is now on windows 10 03:17:36 i sense a bit of a cognitive dissonance. i think i switched every single configuration toggle in the setup. 03:19:12 What sorts of toggles? 03:19:16 I hear the start menu is back. 03:19:50 hm looks like it 03:20:25 shachaf: everything suggesting sending information to microsoft and/or sharing data with/between apps 03:20:33 Oh, that. 03:20:37 Yep. 03:21:43 also, IE seems replaced with something new and edgy, i wonder if i can find my tabs again... 03:25:14 ok this is unacceptable hm... 03:25:52 ah there 03:26:11 Windows should really come with a dessert menu 03:27:43 "There must be no space between the #` and the opening bracket character. (There may be the visual appearance of space for some double-wide characters, however, such as the corner quotes above.) 03:27:43 " 03:27:51 That's surprisingly acknowleding of Unicodeness 03:28:02 hm typing into putty is annoyingly slow 03:28:06 But I think if Perl6 has any strengths at all, Unicode is looking like one 03:28:27 I'm thinking vararg handling might be another, but not sure yet 03:29:51 ok vim is still fast 03:34:24 * oerjan vaguely suspect this upgrade was a mistake. oh well. 03:34:47 oerjan: I've stopped being able to boot to Windows so I don't have to worry about this problem. 03:35:01 more seriously, my touchpad driver menu has disappeared again and the usual method to fix it doesn't seem to be working. 03:39:47 YEAH! now I have everything from the first 3 unicode blocks 03:40:29 Now maybe I'll do Latin B 03:43:40 why does ʼn exist? 03:44:56 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:45:16 `unidecode ʼn 03:45:33 ​[U+0149 LATIN SMALL LETTER N PRECEDED BY APOSTROPHE] [U+0020 SPACE] 03:46:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:46:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:48:38 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 03:48:42 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Changing host). 03:48:42 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 03:48:49 -!- rg_ has joined. 03:53:09 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:53:51 the touchpad scroll actually works, but in the opposite direction. 03:54:09 oerjan: Oh no, they copied Apple on that evil change? 03:55:01 well i assume it's connected to the loss of my driver menu, which i've always sort of suspected competed with MS's setup 03:55:17 -!- tromp has joined. 03:56:31 perhaps that has been removed as not working in W10, in which case i guess i need to find the actual windows menu for it... 04:07:17 * pikhq wonders if RC4 is ever going to die. 04:07:49 I mean, it *should*, but it's not already dead and there's attacks on it on the order of "individual researchers can do decryption on it in the span of a couple days". 04:08:33 It is not always used for encryption though, and even if it is sometimes various improved versions are used 04:09:39 Found another typo in a Perl 6 design doc, someone else fixed 04:10:11 It's really bad for RNG use too -- the RC4 random bit stream can be identified and in some cases predicted. 04:11:26 It's worth noting that the "arc4random" function is not necessarily using the RC4 algorithm, contrary to the name. :) 04:14:03 It can work if you don't need it to be so unpredictable and that stuff. 04:14:32 But then you may as well use a Mersenne twister. 04:16:58 Should I do Latin B next or complete the coverage of Greek? 04:32:33 * oerjan finds a touchpad upgrade download but it's horribly slow 04:33:06 oh well, at least it's progressing. shave -> 04:33:19 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:43:02 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:44:37 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:51:40 "And yes, an int1 can store only -1 or 0. I'm sure someone'll think of a use for it... 04:51:40 " 04:52:15 :) 04:53:36 There is a 1-bit integer type in LLVM, although I think it is commonly consder unsigned 04:56:29 "someone the other day made the mistake of saying the specs are specifications. I quickly corrected them of that nonsense; they're speculations." 04:58:01 All of Windows 1252 is now supported 04:58:54 Sgeo: perfectly usable for BASIC combined boolean-logical arithmetics. 04:59:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:00:16 Yes, in BASIC, as well as in Forth, it is commonly use -1 for true and 0 for false, so that you don't need separate bitwise and logical AND and OR operators. Although, at least Forth has a 0= operator. 05:00:30 -!- augur has joined. 05:34:00 -!- tromp has joined. 05:35:12 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:38:02 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 05:38:30 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:39:59 finally scroll works in the right direction again. 05:41:59 * oerjan optimistically checks out girl genius. hey it's already updated! 05:42:24 can you make olist update twh 05:43:26 sorry, just used up that spell slot 05:44:22 twhib 05:46:38 spot of the spot check, governor? 06:21:11 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:04:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:17:17 -!- x10A94 has joined. 07:21:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:22:58 -!- x1365C has joined. 07:23:26 -!- tromp has joined. 07:23:32 -!- x16444 has joined. 07:26:00 -!- x10A94 has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:26:13 -!- x16444 has changed nick to x10A94. 07:27:06 -!- x1365C has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:27:30 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:33:08 "„I know!”, a gemstone-fascinated person would say, „We can monkey-patch IO::Socket::INET”. And then we have two problems. " 07:36:21 Heh 07:49:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: /Z/ZZ/). 08:13:03 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:13:21 my font now supports all the block elements 08:13:37 and most of the geometric shapes 08:15:26 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has joined. 08:16:45 Hellu 08:17:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 08:17:20 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has changed nick to hppavilion[1][0]. 08:17:30 I AM NOW TWO DIMENSIONAL 08:17:33 FEAR MY WRATH 08:17:51 You still come across as kinda flat 08:19:07 And the audience boos Taneb 08:31:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:12 -!- tromp has joined. 08:35:47 750 characters! 08:36:15 -!- hppavilion[1][0] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:39:07 -!- Melvar has joined. 08:39:26 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:43:54 well I'm done for today, i'll do more tomorrow 08:43:57 http://www.orenwatson.be/neoletters.ttf 08:43:58 -!- SopaXT has joined. 08:45:38 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:45:54 -!- SopaXT has joined. 08:46:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:47:02 So here's an idea for an esoteric file system: 08:47:08 Bloom filter filesys 08:47:23 It's impossible for know for certain if a file exists 08:47:30 Though you can know for certain if it doesn't 08:51:10 It'd be easy to find files with small identifiers but harder to find files with large ones 08:51:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:55:40 -!- hooplavilion[1] has joined. 08:55:42 Dammit firefox 08:55:52 Did anyone say anything while I was gone? 08:55:54 But anway 08:56:00 Bloom Filter Filesys 08:56:10 You can only be certain if a file isn't in the system 08:56:26 And the more files you have, the less certain you can be when it si 08:56:31 s/si/is 08:59:07 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:59:48 Windows 10 Solitaire has Ads. 08:59:50 nice! 08:59:59 mroman: Don't worry, you can pay to get rid of them. 09:00:25 fizzie: Well, that's fair then. 09:00:28 It's a "freemium" operating system. 09:00:45 -!- hooplavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:00:56 Seriously, this ad bullshit has to stop. 09:01:25 mroman: what a great way for a poor corporation to get money, though 09:02:10 "An ad-free internet would cost each user at least £140 a year – a sum that the vast majority of UK web users say they would never pay, according to new research. " 09:02:13 I call bullshit on that. 09:03:21 Don't worry 09:03:28 Practically, where would the money go? To the ISP? Where would the ISP send that money? 09:03:53 Pay-per-view internet? ;-; 09:03:56 Websites could just use paypal or something. 09:04:02 or pay-per-view through micro-payment services 09:04:03 Someone will make a free and better version of Windows Solitare without ads because that's a humanitarian effort obviously 09:04:13 Pay-per-view internet 09:04:15 hppavilion[1]: There probably are already 09:04:20 NET NEUTRALITY ALERT 09:04:21 NET NEUTRALITY ALERT 09:04:27 BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP 09:04:36 NET NEUTRALITY ALERT 09:04:58 why? 09:05:06 net neutrality doesn't prohibit you from collecting money. 09:05:11 True 09:05:16 A youtube account will cost 10$ a year. 09:05:20 I was kidding 09:05:34 I'd pay that. 09:05:36 I mean, there are already websites behind paywalls 09:05:42 Why not go all the way? 09:05:50 Or you could just use Adblock 09:05:59 And subscribe to Patreons and such 09:06:07 But only for youtubers you actually like 09:06:48 Does that mean people in the UK are giving up £140 each year to ads? 09:07:06 (Make that ~£200, after overheads.) 09:07:25 I think they just calculated how much ad companies pay to show their ads. 09:07:34 and then divided that by the number of UK citizens 09:07:54 Probably 09:08:02 That's pretty much science 09:08:07 Because no UK citizens use ad block, of course 09:08:22 Well, the ads are either worth the expense (in which case the above is true) or they're not (in which case the number is meaningless) 09:08:41 I'd say if the ad companies pay that much money they are worth it 09:08:44 There's an assigned scientific variable called Ukc which stands for "Number of Citizens of the United Kindom of Great Britain and Blah Blah Blah" 09:08:54 True fact. 09:08:57 I'm pretty sure the ad companies aim for profit. 09:09:01 so... 09:09:06 Ad companies actually love adblock 09:09:11 Because that way 09:09:14 they will probably make more money than what they pay 09:09:21 They don't pay for users who would never click their ads 09:09:50 I haven't yet intentionally clicked on any ad 09:10:08 only google search results. 09:10:16 I don't click on ads becasue it is technologically impossible for me to do so :P 09:10:21 which might be skewed as well... 09:10:35 Now, it's plausible that good analytics for an affluent country like the UK can be worth £200 per person per year) 09:10:43 s/)/./ 09:13:34 I like Bloom Filters 09:14:11 I've heard ad companies pay ad block money to not block them :) 09:14:25 or at least that's still a conspiracy theory. 09:14:27 No 09:14:33 Ad Companies like adblock 09:14:38 Just think 09:14:55 Is someone who uses adblock _ever_ going to click on an ad, even without adblock? 09:14:56 No 09:15:28 https://adblockplus.org/acceptable-ads-agreements 09:15:34 Oh right 09:15:37 Acceptable ads 09:15:42 Unless it's one of those tricky "download now" ads 09:15:47 :P 09:15:50 Yes 09:15:53 Of course 09:15:59 see 09:16:04 "Download Now" ad makers should be arrested 09:16:07 they get paid for the acceptable ads :) 09:16:21 And brutally, graphically executed in public 09:17:50 Ad networks don't actually care about the minuscule expense of serving ads to users. They even use HTTPS now, so that the ads are harder to filter. 09:19:32 Dammit 09:20:46 (Amusingly, those ads can now also take much longer to load, due to the TLS handshake.) 09:23:08 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhi. 09:23:27 -!- shikhi has changed nick to shikhin. 09:24:07 -!- shikhin has changed nick to hikhin. 09:25:29 `hi shikhin 09:25:30 Hi shikhin. Hikhin. 09:26:00 -!- hikhin has changed nick to shikhin. 09:26:03 Hey. 09:27:40 -!- puckipedia has joined. 09:28:10 real time ad bidding 09:28:12 that's the real stuff 09:42:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 10:01:35 -!- Froox has joined. 10:07:41 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 10:08:00 -!- t3cora has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:08:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:08:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:08:01 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:08:01 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 10:08:16 -!- t3cora has joined. 10:13:09 -!- lambdabot has joined. 10:19:32 -!- jameseb has joined. 10:24:28 -!- tromp has joined. 10:28:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:29:04 -!- boily has joined. 11:08:59 `wisdom 11:09:00 hockey/Hockey 11:09:05 ... 11:09:15 that's not very wisdommy. 11:10:55 `le/rn hockey/Hockey is okey, but parsley is gharsley. 11:11:01 Learned «hockey» 11:18:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:26:02 `wisdom 11:26:03 el camino real/There is no royal road to analytic geometry. 11:26:50 strange. I expected Taneb to have invented it. 11:27:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ABROGATED CHICKEN). 11:31:08 `wisdom 11:31:09 c#/C Pound is Java's good twin. 11:31:14 heh 11:31:27 `wisdom Rust 11:31:29 find: `wisdom/*Rust*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory 11:31:33 `? Rust 11:31:34 Rust? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:32:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:37:34 `wisdom 11:37:35 irrelevant info/KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW 11:37:48 o/ 11:37:57 _o/ 11:37:57 | 11:37:57 |\ 11:38:05 b_jonas: Did You get a Level-Up and can increase Stats now? 11:38:09 *Hangman* 11:38:22 Ah, okay. 11:38:27 Had not seen the Backlog. B) 11:40:14 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:55:39 -!- tromp has joined. 12:00:34 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:05:55 `? fisdom 12:05:56 fisdom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:06:57 `learn fisdom is the domination by the feder inspection station. 12:07:00 Learned 'fisdom': fisdom is the domination by the feder inspection station. 12:07:05 `learn fisdom is the domination by the federal inspection station. 12:07:07 Learned 'fisdom': fisdom is the domination by the federal inspection station. 12:17:18 tswett: how big is the RNN you've been training on the logs? 12:18:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:25:18 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:26:16 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:26:25 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:45:14 fungot: Why would you want to do that? 12:45:14 mroman: train goes soon. in a more or less anything at random in esoteric. no sir! 12:47:51 -!- tromp has joined. 12:52:43 -!- temp has joined. 13:03:40 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:03:45 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 13:03:45 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:08:54 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:15:10 -!- temp has quit (Quit: Page closed). 13:15:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:18:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:32:59 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:34:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:36:52 fungot: train to where? 13:36:52 mroman: including baby fnord. if not, will you? i chat with people on the comittee that decided that i'm not i shall rape you into submission!!! 13:37:13 It rapes you into submission 13:37:19 what.. the.. f.... 13:38:03 fungot: are you a RSO? 13:38:03 mroman: he was banned from haskell over a year ago 13:38:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 13:38:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:57:04 -!- nycs has joined. 13:59:48 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:09:55 ^style 14:09:55 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 14:10:45 <|f`-`|f> RSO? 14:12:46 Rape submission officer, presumably 14:13:35 registered sex offender 14:13:38 presumably 14:20:03 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:22:01 I wonder which channel that gem is from. 14:22:29 Okay, #esoteric. Big surprise there. 14:23:14 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2008-06-04#204157GregorR 14:25:01 <|f`-`|f> gg fizzie 14:25:15 -!- nycs has joined. 14:42:42 "The breakthrough is unlikely to see people losing their jobs to software-creating computers, Harman explains. "We want to free programmers from their shackles, not to make them redundant," he says. Instead, it will free programmers up from boring tasks." 14:42:47 yeah right 14:42:47 that's complete bullshit 14:43:30 every automation will eventually cause someone's job. 14:43:41 *to loose 14:44:53 If you make something automatic, someone can't work the same hours he used to. 14:46:05 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:46:13 If something can be done more efficiently, you don't need as much workers 14:46:21 or if you keep the same amount of workers, you need more work. 14:46:42 <|f`-`|f> alternatively 14:46:47 <|f`-`|f> with increased productivity 14:46:54 <|f`-`|f> you can keep the same amount of workers 14:46:58 <|f`-`|f> with less hours per 14:47:10 <|f`-`|f> and have them do elective/voluntary projects 14:47:11 yeah, which means less pay for the worker usually. 14:47:21 unless they also pay you more per hour. 14:47:28 <|f`-`|f> you can thank the corporate tax and benefits system for that 14:47:38 <|f`-`|f> it's why burn rates are high for small businesses 14:48:01 <|f`-`|f> and when I mean benefits I mean the "employee "benefits"" 14:48:09 technically if your productivity is up, you should earn more 14:48:13 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:48:13 and if you earn more, you can pay more 14:48:43 but in general I think you will loose jobs. 14:48:43 <|f`-`|f> the issue is that unions eat 30% employee income 14:48:57 <|f`-`|f> and payroll taxes on top of beneifts, and employee taxes 14:49:14 <|f`-`|f> just bleeds money the more you make due to regression in the graduate taxes 14:49:44 although if you make certain tasks so easy, they can be done by uneducated humans 14:49:50 you actually make the more educated humans jobless 14:50:02 while the uneducated get more "factory jobs" :) 14:50:06 <|f`-`|f> You can pay more, much like you can by raising the minimum wage, but that moves everyone on minimum wage to a new tax bracket where they get screwed 14:50:38 * mroman imagines a time where programming apps is 95% factory work where you just click things together 14:50:51 and the other 5% writes modules the factory worker can put together :D 14:51:15 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:52:45 put yeah, a lot of programming is just doing the same things over and over again 14:52:48 and mostly boring :) 14:52:58 like writing UI for stuff 14:53:28 they should be semi-auto-generatable from some existing source code or description 14:53:41 <|f`-`|f> Which is why pressing programming into math is helpful 14:54:47 <|f`-`|f> (Auto derivation, machine proofs, etc) 14:56:41 yeah 14:56:45 but it'll cost me my job. 14:56:57 eventually 14:57:17 I'm the one that does these boring repetitive things 14:57:28 if you automate does I have nothing left to do. 14:57:30 *those 14:58:19 Jafet: IIRC, it's 3 layers, size 700. 14:58:38 That's why one should be happy to have a boring job. Because boring pays. 14:59:46 If you do research about how to make humans useless you should also do research what to do with the useless humans :P 15:02:13 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:02:15 -!- Wright_ has joined. 15:09:32 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:09:42 -!- rg_ has joined. 15:11:13 15:16:51 | | 15:16:51 |\ >\ 15:30:51 how come whenever I write haskell code I feel dirty? 15:31:17 you are crazy 15:31:23 haskell is pure beauty 15:32:27 myname: I feel like my code isn't beauty enough 15:33:47 -!- augur has joined. 15:36:27 -!- augur_ has joined. 15:38:00 -!- villain_sin has joined. 15:40:29 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:50:19 -!- Froox has joined. 15:53:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:55:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:07:11 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:16:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:26:49 -!- villain_sin has left ("c ya"). 16:54:33 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:31:12 haskell is a work of art, but you can still write ugly Haskell code:( 17:36:01 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 17:36:17 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:37:50 -!- quietello has joined. 17:42:00 What you're saying is that you can write (ugly (Haskell code)), but not ((ugly Haskell) code)? 17:48:39 ugly Haskell is an esolang 17:48:51 in much the same way that compile-time C++ is 17:50:36 ahis523 17:51:00 Can you make sense of the following Magic: The Gathering card that zzo38 proposed yesterday?: "At the beginning of each combat damage step, the active player chooses and taps an untapped land he or she controls, and then if it is not your turn the active player draws a card." 17:56:25 I can 17:56:59 When would it be a good idea to play? 17:57:15 never 17:57:40 oh wow that card is bad 17:58:13 whyyy did I nuke my code directory 17:58:14 sigh 17:58:33 also that's templated in correctly, ", and then" should just be "." 17:58:46 coppro: restore from backup? 17:59:09 ais523: I just wrote it today 17:59:15 so no backup 17:59:18 ah right 17:59:23 recovering a day of work isn't normally too bad 17:59:26 yeah 17:59:26 I understand the mechanical interpretation but not why you would ever play that card. 17:59:29 just annoying 17:59:58 shachaf: it's zzo38, there probably isn't a reason 18:00:11 he's more interested in what is possible than what is useful 18:00:44 In the past zzo38 suggested cards that I didn't understand the point of at first but did eventually. 18:00:51 But I guess this isn't one of those. 18:02:02 actually I guess it wouldn't be so bad a card in Commander 18:02:18 any card that lets everyone else draw cards tends to be good there because it makes people less inclined to kill you 18:03:07 It lets your teammates draw cards too, not only your opponents, is another thing. (That assumes you have any teammates) 18:05:03 zzo38: ah right, it's probably a useful card in archenemy? howling mine effects are pretty good there 18:05:48 But there are also various combos including Underworld Dreams, and if someone has cards with first strike then there are two combat damage steps 18:06:06 Howling Mine looks pretty odd with modern rules. 18:06:21 But I vaguely remember something about artifacts being tapped in the good old days. 18:06:43 In old rules, abilities of tapped artifacts stop working (including poly artifacts) 18:07:20 scowling mine 18:08:22 right, when the rules changed so that tapping an artifact didn't blank its rules text any more 18:08:32 some artifacts got erratad to say "as long as CARDNAME is untapped,…" 18:09:01 You also used to be able to tap artifacts without a {T} ability, or something like that? 18:09:16 shachaf: If they are mono artifacts, then you have to tap it to pay its activation cost 18:09:38 There are no longer "mono artifacts", any one that requires tapping says {T} 18:12:22 I think mono artifacts and poly artifacts were actually added in Alpha (and then removed later); before Alpha the type was just "artifact", the activation cost was listed next to the mana cost, and all activation costs required tapping unless it specified otherwise. 18:15:49 Also the modern lands with only the mana symbol in the text box was actually the original way before Alpha was released. Mana costs originally had "3RR" meaning "three manas, at least two of which are red". 18:16:02 And the Plains cards before Alpha had pictures of airplanes on them. 18:16:14 zzo38: I think that's a better system. 18:16:33 Maybe even better is to take mana apart so that {R} is a linear combination of one colorless mana and one red. 18:16:49 Rather than one red mana. 18:17:44 I have thought of a kind of "algebraic system" where it would be written as "2r+1" 18:17:53 I don't know if that system is actually better. 18:17:57 It's what Prismata uses. 18:18:22 Prismata has five resources: gold, green, blue, red, and energy 18:18:35 Gold and green persist past end of turn, the rest don't. 18:18:52 Usually something costs some amount of gold and one or more of green, blue, red. 18:19:21 But I was thinking of this system before I ever played Prismata. 18:20:03 By the way, if y'all're interested, I think I have a couple of beta invitation codes left. 18:20:11 zzo38: that'd get ugly when you get to mana with restrictions, such as the mana from the second ability of Sliver Hive 18:20:26 Yes, mtg has other things like that. 18:20:39 It also has mana that gives a creature haste if it's used to cast it. 18:21:24 b_jonas: Yes, I know of thing like that, I wouldn't use my system in Magic: the Gathering anyways; just idea for other kind of game to use something 18:21:42 `unidecode ❎ 18:21:44 U+274E NEGATIVE SQUARED CROSS MARK \ UTF-8: e2 9d 8e UTF-16BE: 274e Decimal: ❎ \ ❎ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 18:21:58 zzo38: eg. if a Forest produces a colorless mana and a green color, you can't spend the colorless mana to Imperiosaur, and the green color (together with some colorless mana produced by Sol Ring) to a Giant Growth 18:22:03 Someone in Agora Nomic just voted ❎❎❎❎❎ a proposal. 18:22:09 they're intrinsically fused 18:23:02 I conclude that this vote is insufficiently clear to be effective. 18:23:14 I don't. 18:23:27 feel free to CFJ the eventual resolution 18:23:39 If it matters, I probably will. 18:23:40 There is some crazy mana magic in M:tG. The craziest is probably Celestial Dawn. 18:23:42 b_jonas: I don't think this system is good for representing Magic: The Gathering mana. 18:23:44 b_jonas: Yes, I know those kind of thing, but that is different from my own idea 18:23:49 That vote could easily mean either FOR or AGAINST. 18:23:50 b_jonas: I think it might be good for another game. 18:24:16 shachaf: maybe 18:24:24 A cross mark tends to mean "no", but a cross mark in a box tends to mean "this one". 18:24:48 (and False Dawn and Sunglasses of Urza. how do they even invent such cards outside of un-sets?) 18:25:07 (I don't want to even know how those combine) 18:26:39 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:27:17 (Why don't they just stick to cards that change what mana is produced, like Naked Singularity, or cards that actually recolor mana, such as Orochi Leafcaller) 18:27:36 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.7 Beta Build (2015/08/03)32 Bit). 18:27:59 So, I'm thinking about tensor products of mana systems. 18:28:02 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:28:14 IIRC, there are six types of mana: colorless, white, blue, black, red, green. 18:28:33 The mana pool always contains some natural number (including zero) of each of these types. 18:28:38 correct 18:28:44 (I think the relevant rule is 609.4.) 18:28:48 some mana has additional characteristics attached 18:28:52 tswett: A natural number isn't enough, though. 18:29:03 Right, mana isn't necessarily fungible. 18:29:03 Because each individual mana can have additional jams. 18:29:11 such as whether it's snow, any spending restrictions, and special effects 18:29:14 fungot: are you necessarily fungible 18:29:14 shachaf: and impose limit on output size 18:29:17 So I'm pretty sure that under the tensor square of this system, each mana would simply have an ordered pair of these types. 18:29:41 although technically none of that is intrinsic to the mana 18:30:03 coppro: oh, I asked about how Imperiosaur works, as in, it checks the characteristics of the object that's produced the mana at what time (what the characteristics are when you pay, when the mana was produced, etc), but I don't remember the answer. 18:30:03 What is the dual of a constraint? 18:30:08 ski suggested "endowment" once. 18:30:24 -!- variable has joined. 18:30:30 b_jonas: it is not that the mana has the property "produced by basic land" 18:30:38 but that the game rules look at the history of the mana to figure out what applies to it 18:30:50 coppro: What is the effective difference here? 18:31:15 coppro: yes, but when does the object have to be a basic land? what if the object changes to a basic land or to no longer a basic land by the time I pay with the mana? 18:31:27 ah. don't know that one off hand 18:31:37 the same applies to snow mana 18:31:50 There's now two cards that change how mana empties from your mana pool. 18:31:59 The rules should be written as a literate computer program in order to make it more clearly. 18:32:00 There used to be more, but they affected only mana burn, which doesn't exist now. 18:36:34 It is what I would do if I invented the card game, I think. If you don't understand some circumstance, put it into the computer and it will automatically calculate the answer. 18:46:06 (Although it can work even if you do not have a computer) 18:48:41 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:49:37 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:50:05 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 18:50:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:53:05 -!- bb010g has joined. 18:55:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:59:22 Suppose I have a sorcery that says, "Tap target creature. You gain 1 life." 18:59:36 Can I cast this and gain 1 life from it if there are no creatures on the battlefield? 18:59:44 tswett: no 19:00:07 Is this because it's impossible to cast a spell if it calls for a target and there isn't a legal one? 19:00:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:00:44 No, there is no valid target 19:00:47 "If Evil were Midichlorians, this moose would be equal to THREE Darth Vaders" 19:01:03 tswett: an example for a card like that is Vicious Hunger. a more extreme example is Hex. 19:01:07 But it will work if there are creaturse but only tapped creatures in play, then you can target one that is already tapped, I think 19:01:34 zzo38: right 19:03:22 zzo38: some cards require tapping creatures as a _cost_ for an activated ability, such as Springleaf Drum, those helpfully say "tap an untapped" though I think just "tap" would work technically if it's in a cost 19:03:43 because invalid actions are ignored, but invalid costs cannot be payed 19:03:51 If it is a cost then it has to be untapped at first 19:03:56 By the way, it looks like if you somehow had a card with no characteristics, and you cast it, it would essentially behave as a sorcery. 19:04:02 But costs don't target anything 19:04:18 An annoying thing about Magic: The Gathering is that some cards let you target zero or more things. 19:04:19 A spell only enters the battlefield upon resolution if it's an artifact, creature, enchantment, or planeswalker. 19:04:45 But if you target a nonzero number of things, and then they all become invalid targets, the whole spell fizzles. 19:04:52 Even though you could have targeted nothing in the first place. 19:05:00 I don't know if its mana cost would be zero or unpayable. 19:05:02 That's a scow interaction of rules if you ask. 19:05:12 tswett: no, I don't think so. I think it would behave as an enchantment. but I don't think you can get a card with no type in the stack in any way. you can only get cards with no types as permanents, or as hidden cards. 19:05:28 b_jonas: why do you think it would behave as an enchantment? 19:05:37 tswett: as in, it would resolve 19:05:52 At least I would have it come into play and do nothing 19:05:59 But the rules don't seem to really specify 19:06:28 tswett: well, probably the rules don't really say, but the rules do say that Sorceries and Instants can't enter the battlefield 19:06:30 It would try to come into play, and since it isn't an instant or sorcery, it would succeed, I think 19:06:52 I think the rules do really say. 19:06:53 One moment. 19:07:29 608.3. "If the object that’s resolving is a permanent spell, its resolution involves a single step (unless it’s an Aura). The spell card becomes a permanent and is put onto the battlefield under the control of the spell’s controller." 19:07:37 tswett: I definitely think you can get typeless cards only as permanents (where you can do it by taking away types) or as hidden objects (cards in a library, hand, exiled face down, or just drawn while you're casting a spell) 19:08:13 tswett: but I think the typeless permanents (which are actually possible) sort of make a precendent, 19:08:30 I want to see an esolang that can physically manipulate reality 19:08:35 Is that too much to ask? 19:08:45 Maybe. 19:08:48 Er. 19:08:50 b_jonas: maybe. 19:09:00 tswett: also note how all effects that copy spells specifically allow you to copy only sorceries and instants, and that nothing can add or remove sorcery or instant type on an object except by turning it face down or making it hidden or unhidden 19:09:19 tswett: I think rule 608.3 isn't really answering this strange question, because it doesn't tell you if it is a "permanent spell" or not 19:09:29 zzo38: typeless spells are by definition not permanent spells. 19:09:36 By the definition of "permanent spell", that is. 19:09:45 tswett: yes, but you can't get such a spell so it's not a problem 19:09:48 I guess the rules don't give a resolution effect for typeless cards, so my assumption would be that they don't have any resolution effect at all. 19:10:04 tswett: they'll fix the rules when there becomes a way to get such a spell 19:10:18 Then I suppose they would just act like sorceries, since they would have to get discarded 19:10:22 b_jonas: can you give me an example of how a typeless permanent would come about? 19:10:27 Or possibly they would get exiled instead, I don't know? 19:11:08 But I would have avoided these problems by writing the rules as a literate computer program 19:12:01 tswett: a way is to temporarily animate an artifact with March of the Machines, make it no longer an artifact with Neurok Transmuter, then unanimate it by removing March of the Machines 19:12:20 tswett: there's other ways involving taking away some type, but this is the easiest to see 19:12:28 I don't think any of them are significantly different 19:13:16 Huh. I think March of the Machines would mean that artifact lands are no longer lands. 19:13:44 tswett: no, there's a separate rule for "is an artifact creature" that makes it not so 19:13:47 it's crazy 19:13:52 Oh... weird. 19:14:02 205.1b (in some version of the rules) 19:14:08 yeah, #esoteric 19:14:11 On leap years, February of the Machines 19:14:31 shachaf: yeah. 19:14:33 I have made up the card that can remove all supertypes and subtypes of a spell 19:14:57 zzo38: hmm... that would be strange. let me check what are all supertypes and subtypes these days. 19:15:25 Supertypes are: basic, legendary, ongoing, snow, and world. 19:16:03 These include (but are not limited to): World, Legendary, Snow, Aura, and creature types. 19:16:32 (As well as planeswalker subtypes) 19:17:44 Subtypes are: tons of creature types, a few dozen planeswalker types, three artifact types (Contraption, Equipment, Fortification), enchantment types (Aura, Curse, Shrine), land types (five basic land types plus currently Desert, Gate, Lair, Locus (hi land mirror thingy), Mine, Power-Plant (Urza-tron), Tower, Urza's), and spell types (Arcane and Trap). 19:17:49 I think that's exhaustive. 19:17:54 I wonder what's the simplest card that would just break the game. 19:18:00 "Delete target rule." 19:18:07 That would be pretty breaky. 19:18:08 Oh no it's not, there's also plane types. 19:18:10 Well, you cannot target rules 19:18:17 Why not? 19:18:18 But other than that, yes it break the game 19:18:50 -!- rg_ has joined. 19:19:07 The rules don't make rules a valid target; a target can be a player, object, or zone, I think. 19:19:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:19:13 * tswett nods. 19:19:24 Well, then, "Choose a rule and delete it." 19:19:49 Yes, that would break the game completely 19:20:00 tswett: the simplest card that breaks the game is Little Girl I think 19:20:14 "All cards become their own controllers." Except maybe cards can't be controllers. 19:21:04 Cards can't control stuff, except with my variant rule where planeswalkers can control stuff other than planeswalkers or players. 19:21:15 that breaks either the game or a card (the Chaos Confetti way) if you try to measure its Soul's Majesty 19:21:19 Hmmmm. 19:21:47 no really, there's tons of fun un-cards that break the rule in lots of interesting ways 19:21:54 "Put all cards on the battlefield." 19:22:07 "Play all cards as written. Ignore all errata." 19:22:17 zzo38: hmm, was that an un-card? 19:22:19 -!- _256Q has joined. 19:22:19 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 19:22:19 -!- _256Q has joined. 19:22:29 b_jonas: Yes. 19:22:40 zzo38: maybe even better would be "Every card's flavor text is part of its rule text." 19:22:41 ah yes, R&D's Secret Lair 19:22:56 Anyway, I gotta go see about networking. 19:23:18 I had idea about the programming language to define the effect of the cards with. 19:23:18 tswett: I don't see how that's simpler than Little Girl 19:24:06 Some stuff such as Chaos Confetti and "Choose a rule and delete it" are probably not possible to define with this programming language. 19:24:43 zzo38: Which programming language is this? 19:24:59 I wanted to invent a programming language for something like Magic: The Gathering cards, but then I decided that it was too complicated. 19:25:05 Some that isn't quite invented yet 19:25:14 zzo38: I don't see Chaos Confetti as really that bad, compared to some other un-cards 19:26:37 though there's some un-cards where I'm not sure how bad they really are, like B.F.M. and S.N.O.T. 19:27:11 You could do Chaos Confetti if it has explicit rule support, which would require a host function macro (the function does not actually have to be implemented, but you must be able to identify it) 19:28:28 zzo38: there's two ugly parts of Chaos Confetti: the Chaos Orb part which requires manual dexterity and requires that nobody moves cards on the table after it's cast, and the Blacker part which requires to destroy the underlying card 19:29:04 both of those are bad from the perspective of what kind of game M:tG wants to be (Chaos Orb is banned), but they're not really that bad rules-wise I think 19:29:35 b_jonas: Yes, that is why I say, in order to implement with this programming language to make it mathematically defined, you must make a "external host function reference" 19:29:48 I wish they updated the Oracle text of un-cards. 19:30:26 zzo38: for the Chaos Orb part, yes. for the Blacker part, possibly no, if you implement ownership of cards in the same system as the rules, which can be done in MtgO 19:30:30 shachaf: hell NO! 19:30:46 whoa whoa whoa 19:30:51 I would prefer that they deleted the Oracle text of many un-cards (keeping only the copy of the printed text); and update the Oracle text of the ones that can be use with normal game. 19:30:56 (Even though they are banned) 19:31:05 shachaf: the un-rules manager who puts out un-rules faqs and makes un-rulings of the highest levels is Marc Rosewater, and he's very bad with templating, so if they updated Oracle text, they'd be crazy bad 19:31:21 shachaf: so just no 19:31:29 I just want them to say "enter the battlefield" instead of "come into play" and so on. 19:31:41 shachaf: why would _that_ help? 19:32:04 For consistency with modern cards and rules. 19:32:19 b_jonas: Actually for ownership of cards, well, it doesn't have to MtgO, just it is remove from the sideboard too, so you cannot use it in multiple game of the match. 19:32:52 Oh, what happens with Blacker Lotus if you play a multi-game match and you tear it up in the first game? 19:32:57 (Rule support for that function is still required though) 19:32:58 You can't play a second game with a 59-card deck. 19:33:11 shachaf: Take a card from your sideboard to replace it. 19:33:18 What if your sideboard is empty? 19:33:29 Then I suppose you have to concede before the game is started 19:34:00 zzo38: I think it has to be more than the match. it's the whole tournament, because you often have to use the same deck and sideboard for the whole tournament of multiple matches. 19:34:22 Yes, there is that too, so you may have to concede the entire tournament 19:34:48 b_jonas: Wouldn't your deck be restored to the original list of cards between matches? 19:35:08 For instance at the beginning of a new match you can't sideboard, you have to start with the cards that were in your deck originally. 19:35:21 Maybe that means that your whole deck resets, Blacker Lotuses included. 19:35:23 shachaf: hmm... 19:35:26 It depends on the tournament format I think 19:35:29 maybe you replace it with a basic land? 19:35:38 in some formats 19:36:26 In some Limited formats you do not have to register the deck, and in that case it is allowed to sideboard at the beginning of a new match, I think 19:36:49 I'd say replace it with a basic land in your deck or sideboard before the start of the next game or something 19:36:50 Unhinged lands are TG. 19:36:56 (but don't replace it during a game) 19:37:18 b_jonas: Hmm, I guess the same question might come up for ante cards. 19:37:35 shachaf: the ante cards are all banned because of that 19:37:50 shachaf: there's a ruling for Un sets that after destroying blacker lotus, you get to continue with the 59-card deck 19:37:54 shachaf: there's some rule about how to "play without ante" and what ante cards do in that case I think 19:38:00 but sure, they're banned, just like un-cards are 19:39:12 well, there's Advantageous Proclamation that shows the game rules can handle smaller decks, 60 cards in constructed (40 cards in limited, 100 cards in some formats) is just the default minimum 19:40:02 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:40:03 however, making a deck of 40 Blacker Lotuses, destroying them in the first game against an easy opponent, and then winning with a 20 card deck would be too easy, so the rules should stop that 19:40:25 which is why I'd say you have to replace them with basic lands before starting the next game 19:40:52 Contract from Below is TG. 19:41:05 We should play with ante. 19:41:42 nopw 19:41:46 we should play without ante 19:47:33 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:51:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:55:52 https://github.com/birkenfeld/rick 19:57:48 You can play with ante if you want to, returning the cards to whoever you borrowed them from after a match. If one player borrowed a deck from his opponent, then all cards you must give back to opponent afterward anyways. 19:58:13 But before that you can compare the cards you start with, with the cards you end with, to make up a score 20:00:55 It is a new kind of way to play with ante, even in Limited formats. You can also make it game/set/match so that card are sometimes return in the middle of a match too but not always 20:06:14 But if I had made up the rules I would want them to be more mathematically elegant 20:06:41 York's university challenge team are VERY good 20:07:26 b_jonas: It sounds like you're not pro-ante. 20:08:08 shachaf: I'm not. It's not a good mechanic, and the cards aren't good either. They're like old bad cards that make the game worse, sort of like Divine Intervention. 20:08:20 shachaf, are you advocating upping the ante 20:08:31 Ante simply isn't a good idea in M:tG. 20:08:41 I really just wanted to say it because it sounded like "pro-anti". 20:09:04 shachaf: sorry, English puns don't always work on me, I have partial resistance. 20:09:13 I don't know enough English to appreciate them. 20:10:00 It's not perfect resistance, some of them do work quite well, such as the "bore" pun in http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/1227.html 20:12:12 What cards should I put in my Bearer of the Heavens deck? 20:12:59 Island 20:13:06 Swamp 20:13:14 Mountain 20:13:16 Those cards 20:13:19 Only those cards 20:13:20 I'm not sure Island really fits. 20:13:20 shachaf: Reknit, Boar Umbra, etc 20:13:21 You can make it work 20:13:37 shachaf: regenerate a few key permanents that let you kill the opponent when he's defenseless 20:13:41 (those were the only cards I could remember) 20:13:41 b_jonas: Regenerate? Why? 20:13:44 or make them indestructible, but that's harder 20:13:47 Oh, I see. 20:13:57 Other permanents, not the Bearer. 20:14:05 I had things like Boros Charm in my old deck. 20:14:19 shachaf: Bearer of the Heavens destroys most permanents, including lands, that can leave the opponent pretty defenseless if you prepare well 20:14:20 (Which was made with Innistrad-and-onward cards.) 20:14:27 Right, that's the idea. 20:14:52 Gift of Immortality has an interesting interaction with BotH. 20:15:11 also, you may need some defense against cards like Unmake or Swords to Plowshares that exile Bearer of Heavens 20:15:14 I also had Avacyn. 20:15:19 And a bunch of reanimation cards. 20:15:36 Right, I guess there are a lot more of those in Modern. 20:15:39 shachaf: plus I guess you need some tricks to accelerate into Bearer of the Heavens and some extra spells quickly enough 20:15:54 My old deck had a bunch of reanimation. 20:16:10 Including Rescue from the Underworld, which works pretty well if you can get enough creatures for it. 20:16:28 shachaf: oh, you'll reanimate it rather than pay for it? that can work too 20:16:49 it might work even better if you can put it to play for just one turn... can that be done these days? 20:16:56 shachaf: what format and what kind of environment is this? 20:17:19 I think Modern on MTGO. 20:17:33 hehe, "I think" 20:17:34 The environment is all sorts of strange decks, probably not too competitive in general. 20:17:51 you should probably decide the format first, before you build the deck 20:17:58 The format is Modern. 20:19:12 But I don't really know much about pre-Innistrad Modern. 20:19:54 hmm... what's in the ban list of Modern? is Darksteel Citadel allowed? 20:20:09 b_jonas: IIRC darksteel citadel is allowed but not the other artifact lands 20:20:24 oh, Boros Charm? that sounds like a really good idea 20:21:18 there's apparently Terra Eternal 20:21:20 no wait 20:21:25 that won't work, it helps the opponent 20:21:26 sorry 20:21:31 I also had Tymaret, the Murder King. 20:21:33 stick to Boros Charm and maybe some regeneration 20:21:44 And some other things, I don't remember. 20:21:57 There's a reanimation card with Flashback. 20:22:04 shachaf: so what are the plans for getting Bearer of Heavens into play? how quickly do you want to do that? 20:22:17 In my previous deck it took a while. 20:22:21 But maybe Modern has more options. 20:24:25 I wonder if there's some red card that puts it onto the battlefield then destroys it 20:24:30 or sacrifices it 20:24:43 Oh, I remember a card like that. 20:24:54 Was it in the most recent set? 20:25:14 Or maybe I'm confusing it with the keyword ability that some cards have. 20:25:36 Evoke 20:26:03 wait, could you use some card that lets you sacrifice your permanents as paying for dealing damage to the opponent? 20:26:28 though it might be hard to do with your lands 20:26:30 Sure, assuming you can get it out onto the battlefield. 20:26:43 Oh, I misunderstood. 20:27:08 that would both let you fling your goats before you get everything destroyed, and sacrifice Bearer itself 20:27:17 I think a card like that would be TG. 20:27:31 If it let you turn lands into damage. 20:27:38 shachaf: sure, it can't be one card 20:27:45 animating all lands might not be worth 20:27:50 Oh, you mean a bunch of flings, or something. 20:28:02 but you could still fling your creatures, assuming you have some other creatures that are useful 20:28:07 I kind of want to put Gift of Immortality in just because it keeps destroying all permanents every turn. 20:28:18 It would be great. 20:28:36 shachaf: Goblin Bombardment 20:28:46 shachaf: do you get to attack during all this? 20:28:48 there's some others if you're willing to pay mana 20:29:03 b_jonas: Hmm, interesting. 20:29:07 ais523: During all what? 20:29:11 also, the reanimation card with flashback is Dread Return, which is banned in Modern and one of the most important cards in top-tier decks in both Legacy and Vintage 20:29:15 ais523: yes, _after_ the bearer dies, with some other creature you regenerate 20:29:18 shachaf: the recursive Gift of Immortality loop 20:29:26 I mean, attacking with the Bearer itself 20:29:38 ais523: Yes, it enters the battlefield before the beginning of your turn. 20:30:04 ais523: No, not Dread Return. 20:30:10 ais523: Unburial Rites 20:30:20 you could also use Otherworldly Journey rather than regenerating creatures 20:30:47 but yeah, Boros Charm sounds like the best 20:31:21 shachaf: well if the opponent can't ever play anything that costs more than one mana, can't keep permanents around for a turn, and you get to attack every turn 20:31:32 that sounds pretty much like a win to me unless they're running Erase or something similarly specific 20:31:48 Right. 20:32:45 oh, Dread Return sounds nice 20:33:19 no, probably not Dread Return 20:33:20 I dunno 20:36:50 b_jonas: There are also creatures like Obzedat, Ghost Council. 20:36:52 shachaf: try to search for existing deck lists with Bearer for ideas 20:37:02 I suppose I can do that. 20:37:36 hmm, it seems most cards that put something into play for one turn are careful and _exile_ it 20:37:56 some aren't, but they're harder to use, eg. Imprompty Raid 20:39:15 Oh, the card I was thinking of was Flameshadow Conjuring. 20:39:17 Which exiles. 20:39:30 And it makes a copy anyway. 20:39:35 Completely different. 20:39:45 shachaf: it costs tons of mana, but there's Kiki-Jiki which sacrifices a copy of your Bearer 20:40:06 you can save the original by eg. regenerating it or journeying it, and then you attack with it 20:40:19 regenerating is better because you get to attack immediately 20:40:38 but of course the regenerated one will just get Doom Bladed 20:40:42 b_jonas: Kiki-Jiki also sacrifices it at end of turn, which means my opponent gets an extra turn before their permanents are destroyed. 20:41:19 shachaf: um what? no? 20:41:30 shachaf: they get an extra turn _after_ their permanents are destroyed, but before you get to attack 20:41:41 which is much less of a problem 20:41:47 Kiki-Jiki sacrifices the copy of Bearer of the Heavens in the end step. 20:41:59 So its ability only destroys everything in the next end step. 20:42:08 hmm 20:42:09 ah 20:42:12 I see 20:42:13 I'm designing a protocol called Extensible Internet Chat (XIC) :) 20:42:20 shachaf: you're right 20:43:00 IRC works fine, but OK you can try other stuff too 20:44:33 It's an open protocol that, in my imagination, would replace IRC as a better chat. Probably won't, but I'm allowed to dream :P 20:44:44 Dreaming isn't allowed on IRC. 20:44:59 It's designed to introduce the IRC interface to the newer generation 20:45:15 It's like IRC, but less complicated and allowing File Transfers and such 20:45:39 # Appears as TIKI 20:46:07 there's Through the Breach which is like Kiki-Jiki 20:46:09 Oh, and it's utf8 20:46:18 Because the world has non-english speakers in it 20:46:33 Hmm, Through the Breach is interesting. 20:46:38 hppavilion[1]: IRC already allows file transfers 20:46:48 although in practice, getting a DCC through a firewall can be hard 20:46:49 Really!? 20:46:51 shachaf: it has the same problems as Kiki-Jiki. expensive, works in enx of turn. 20:46:53 Since when!? 20:47:02 But it has the same disadvantage as -- yes. 20:47:10 Oh 20:47:14 hppavilion[1]: Since about 1991. 20:47:20 Oh 20:47:31 b_jonas: It's expensive but it doesn't require a Bearer to be on the battlefield already. 20:47:34 Although you can argue on whether DCC is part of IRC. 20:47:38 Well MY file transfers don't need anything more than the ability to encode a file to Base64 20:47:51 Because THAT'S a good idea :P 20:47:53 b_jonas: And CMC 5 isn't so bad. It's the same as an average reanimation spell. 20:48:05 ais523: meh, just tunnel the file through a channel instead of a separate socket. it's ugly because you have to base-253 encode it and split it to lines and add headers before each line so it grows a lot, but still. 20:48:26 See? 20:48:29 shachaf: yeah, but now you need a way to put it to the battlefield, though that isn't too hard 20:48:34 Ugly piece of crap 20:48:43 b_jonas: ? 20:48:49 This protocol will, hopefully, be good 20:48:50 IRC is simple and powerful enough as it is, I think. Most other protocols (such as XMPP) and so on tend to be very complicated 20:48:56 b_jonas: Through the Breach puts it from your hand onto the battlefield. 20:49:03 s/battlefield/graveyard/ 20:49:04 sorry 20:49:05 And MUCH easier to implement 20:49:23 Also I don't see any good reason why to base64 if you're *not* trying to put something through a legacy thing not designed for it. 20:49:43 Me? 20:49:48 b_jonas: My old strategy was putting it in the graveyeard and reanimating it. 20:49:56 Probably a newline problem when transmitting text files 20:50:02 I played Faithless Looting and cards like that. 20:50:07 shachaf: is that something that can work in Modern? 20:50:13 Probably too slow. 20:50:22 Through the Breach is probably no worse than that strategy, though. 20:50:56 An XDCC bot with an esolang-related file archive is something we're sorely missing, but it's maybe a decare or two too late for that. 20:51:10 Decare is like a decade, but it cares more. 20:51:13 shachaf: isn't this something that you _don't_ want to reanimate in turn 3, because then you won't have enough resources to keep stuff from getting destroyed, and your opponent will be able to recover better than you? 20:51:27 I dunno 20:51:32 I'm not sure how this should work 20:51:38 Another reason I'm making this protocol: IRC has entered a declien 20:51:49 It lost 60% of users from 2003 to 2014 20:51:57 s/declien/decline 20:52:03 b_jonas: Reanimating it isn't so bad. You still have a 10/10 that your opponent doesn't want to destroy. 20:52:21 But maybe in Modern there's a lot more exile. 20:52:30 Myst III: Exile 20:52:31 shachaf: maybe 20:52:48 but he'll just chump block it forever 20:53:03 Sure, your opponent can bus. 20:53:29 But it's not a terrible position, and as soon as you draw Boros Charm or Gift of Immortality or something you can use it. 20:53:56 Gift of Immortality? 20:54:09 had you mentioned that earlier and I missed it? 20:54:48 oh, that's nice 20:55:06 It's great. You get the Bearer back every turn. 20:57:58 ok, really stupid question, what if you regenerate Barren Glory? nope, too many combo pieces, too much mana, too easy to disrupt. 20:58:20 b_jonas: not to mention that you need a convoluted mess to regenerate an enchantment in the first place 20:58:38 would be easier to make it indestructable; I think there's a single card that does that 20:58:40 ais523: convoluted mess? isn't there like Reknit? let me check that 20:58:51 Reknit 20:58:55 "Target player chooses any number not greater than X, loses that much life, draws that many cards, and then exiles the top Y cards of his/her library where Y is X minus the chosen number." 20:58:56 ooh 20:59:13 (with overload) 20:59:23 Oh, that's an interesting strategy. 20:59:26 zzo38: without overload, that's broken at XB and strictly worse than an existing card at XBB 20:59:33 But seems tricky to pull off. 21:00:01 ais523: I know that it is broken at XB but I was intending to be XBB, and with an overload ability too 21:00:09 shachaf: I don't think it works. it needs like three cards and a ton of mana, and disrupted very easily by any destroyer or countere. at that point you should have won ages ago. 21:00:12 at XBB overload 0 it still isn't very good, because you'd basically never overload it unless the opponent was low on life 21:00:18 shachaf: also like two colors or three 21:00:35 ok, two colors doesn't really matter if you have nine mana to spend a turn 21:00:36 but still 21:00:37 b_jonas: It's two colors but so is Boros Charm or Gift of Immortality. 21:00:38 in which case you'd still prefer the existing XBB card because it would outright kill them 21:00:47 so yes, that's broken at XB (target yourself), and just pointless at XBB overload 0 21:00:53 I think overload 0 is too low, it should be at least X 21:00:55 maybe if it was XBB overload draw a card ;-) 21:01:14 zzo38: overloading the card actually makes it worse, though 21:01:16 what's this with overload? 21:01:25 overload on what? 21:01:28 because exiling the top X cards of your library is not a very major effect unless X is very large 21:01:47 Overload draw a card? Maybe... 21:01:53 and your opponent gets some amount of "lose 1 life and draw a card" effects of their choice, which is normally a good ability 21:02:10 and which can't be used to kill them because they can choose not to take them 21:02:11 Yes, unless X is very large 21:02:38 I think that card would be better as "each player draws X cards and loses X life" for XB 21:02:44 much simpler, too 21:02:57 Yes, that is another kind of card 21:02:58 zzo38: if X is very large, though, you don't bother overloading it, you just aim it at your opponent 21:03:12 the existing XBB card outright kills them in that situation 21:03:16 ais523: Yes I know 21:05:03 right, just Fireball them for 20 21:05:52 Fireball is red card though 21:06:13 And if they have a lot of life points, it isn't working 21:06:29 you want blue or black? 21:06:30 Even then, depending on the cube you are playing, some cards might not even be available 21:06:49 Damnable Pact 21:06:52 b_jonas: Clearly which card you choose depend on blue or black. 21:07:04 do we have an oracle text and rules quoting bot on this channel? 21:07:08 (Or, red, green, white) 21:07:14 Not on this channel, I think 21:07:26 hmm 21:07:54 where does HackEgo listen other than on this channel? 21:08:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:08:25 You can still send private messages although I don't know if there are any other channels that it does. 21:08:39 it listens to private messages? that changes EVERYTHING 21:08:55 great! 21:09:13 Any writes to filesystem made by private messages are still logged though, but as far as I know reads aren't logged. 21:09:26 zzo38: it's no problem is messages are logged 21:10:00 I could upload a compressed oracle text database through private message in a few hours I think 21:10:08 or can it download straight from web? 21:11:48 I don't know. But even the existing database they use some non-ASCII characters, and still includes reminder text, so for those reasons it isn't as good as it should be (actually there are some other problems with the text too) 21:12:38 zzo38: what's the problem with non-ascii characters? 21:12:57 I have more problem with flip cards and split cards and double-faced cards which they keep messing up inconsistently 21:13:46 though my main problem is that I still haven't made my scripts work with the new new Gatherer, so my only source of up to date Oracle text is from Yawgatog's, which is actually quite consistent and fixes all the flip cards somehow 21:14:12 I should fix it but I'm lazy 21:14:19 the new new Gatherer is just very stupid 21:14:50 b_jonas: yawgatog maintains one 21:14:59 do some of you download the full oracle text database from a source independent of yawgatog? 21:15:04 coppro: yes, and that's my only source right now 21:15:31 coppro: before they created the new new Gatherer, I could use the new gatherer to download every card in a single page, and then parse it 21:15:50 I'm not sure if the new new gatherer allows that, but even if it does, I have to rewrite my scripts because they changed the format 21:16:10 I don't shy away from downloading hundreds of pages, I do that all the time, but I'm not interested enough about M:tG to do it these days 21:16:12 Yes, but even Yawgatog's has reminder text and stuff. I would prefer the format: Always {} for symbols, ~ when the card name refers to "this card", and only ASCII characters. 21:16:34 I also found a JSON version, which has the same problems. 21:16:37 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:17:01 zzo38: why "~" for "this card"? doesn't it already use {} for mana symbols and tap symbols, and [] for loyalty? 21:17:22 zzo38: reminder text is a part of the Oracle text 21:17:22 But, if you do use the JSON version you can use a SQLite extension that I made up for reading JSON files 21:17:35 I don't recall if they fixed flip cards, but I think they haven't 21:17:36 coppro: Yes I know it is, but my opinion it shouldn't be 21:17:44 ASCII is not correct, because the card names do not use exclusively ASCII 21:18:12 Yes, but you can translate the card names into ASCII in a standardized format 21:18:19 yes, but you shouldn't need to 21:18:25 get out of the 20th century 21:19:27 You should use ASCII when possible. 21:19:58 no 21:20:02 you should use UTF-8 when possible 21:20:27 coppro: exactly. Scéance; Æther Figment; Ærathi Berserker (probably the craziest one); Looter il-Kor (or is it Looter il-Kor?); Kongming, “Sleeping Dragon”; “Ach! Hans, Run!” 21:20:49 the craziest is when flavor text contains unitalicized parts 21:20:57 as emphasis 21:21:11 No I believe you are wrong, you should use ASCII when possible, also converting the italics to normal texts. 21:21:33 the italics I don't mind 21:21:33 If ASCII won't do then you can use UTF-8 and other formats, but you should try to use ASCII 21:21:36 zzo38: what would be the ascii for all of those card names above? 21:21:39 but I don't know why you would prefer ascii 21:21:45 especially when ascii is demonstrably unfit for the task 21:22:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:22:17 Replace the ligature with "AE", the accented with no accents, quotation marks straight, and italic letters straightened. For foreign card names you should not use ASCII of course. 21:23:56 the fun part of en- and il- is that they're printed in italic in text boxes everywhere and in title bars of modern frame cards, but as upright in title bars of old frames 21:24:22 so it's possible that it's not actually a significant part of the card name 21:25:29 besides en- and il-, what other cards get italicized text in their names? 21:26:15 I think maybe a few Un-cards might, you should check 21:26:16 I believe there is at least one 21:26:18 ^ 21:26:18 I guess the italicization of en- and il- is probably a design detail you should ignore, like the black and white mana symbols in Mirrodin text boxes 21:26:37 as in, the italic has no rules significance, and you don't have to reproduce the italic when naming a card 21:27:08 The deck format I use requires that all card names are written in ASCII format, too 21:27:50 (They also must use the English names, even if you have foreign cards in your deck) 21:28:10 also, the Gatherer doesn't show italic in the card name or card text in the Oracle text, which shows it probably doesn't matter 21:28:47 there's also Erase (Not the Urza's Legacy One) 21:28:48 zzo38: how do you asciify Ærathi Berserker? with or without the Æ? 21:29:08 coppro: heh, yeah 21:29:11 By replacing it with "AE" 21:29:12 which has the parenthetical typset smaller in the title box, but not the text box, and the name /Urza's Legacy/ italicized in the text box, but not the title box 21:29:29 (Although it is also case-insensitive, at least for unquoted text) 21:29:49 zzo38: wait, with AE? not with Ae or nothing? 21:29:49 wtf 21:29:53 why would you use AE 21:29:55 that's ugly 21:29:59 "Ae" is also valid, as it is case-insensitive. 21:30:35 (And actually "Ae" is what I have used, but it doesn't matter as it is defined to be case-insensitive) 21:30:47 ah, ok 21:30:54 Then there's Our Market Research 21:31:00 b_jonas: please 21:31:04 full names! 21:31:27 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:50 coppro: yeah... the full name does fit in an irc line 21:31:52 Our Market Research Shows That Players Like Really Long Card Names So We Made this Card to Have the Absolute Longest Card Name Ever Elemental 21:37:21 although there's at least one card with rules text so long it doesn't fit in a single irc line 21:37:23 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:37:33 so a bot would have to know how to split to multiple lines 21:37:43 yes, datatog does ;) 21:38:15 Dance of the Dead and Master of the Hunt have quite long texts 21:39:00 AFAIK Ice Cauldron still holds the record 21:39:22 coppro: probably depends on how you turn to character sequences 21:39:29 it's shorter in my version 21:39:47 Are you counting Oracle text or printed text? 21:39:49 oracle 21:39:55 I think that making a RVTP server and RVTP client would help. (The server does not have to be SQLite, although it might be easier if it is. If the client is SQLite that probably also makes it easier) 21:39:59 Ice Cauldron's oracle text is too long to be printed 21:40:01 shachaf: oracle, but in my old dump that's a bit reformatted 21:40:22 coppro: Dance of the Dead's too probably 21:40:24 I think Illusionary Mask's Oracle text is longer? 21:41:22 (But SQLite does not yet support virtual table modules that can read LIMIT and OFFSET clauses) 21:41:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:41:49 shachaf: my dump favors Dance of the Dead unfairly because I turn newlines to three characters 21:42:10 Dance of the Dead has three 21:42:17 also it's old, I think Illu Mask has changed since 21:42:27 It's probably fair as far as space utilization on the card goes. 21:42:29 how you treat mana symbols and such might also change stuff 21:43:12 Ice Cauldron may have changed since too 21:43:15 I dunno 21:44:39 Camouflage (which has remainder text) and Riftmarked Knight and Tombstone Stairwell are also somewhat long 21:44:45 but again, old dump 21:45:21 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:48:51 -!- rg_ has joined. 21:50:39 http://ideone.com/ZqytvO 21:55:23 -!- boily has joined. 21:57:57 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:58:05 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:03:57 !bfjoust neuralnet (>(+)*20>(-)*6)*5(>)*6([(+)*0[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(++++++-)*4[-]]>)*5([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*-1 22:04:11 ​Score for tswett_neuralnet: 6.6 22:04:20 So... how good is that? 22:04:58 Aha, here it is. http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt 22:05:01 It's crap. 22:05:52 tswellott! 22:05:59 wow. haven't seen jousting in a loooong time. 22:07:09 helloily 22:07:15 So, growth2 and preparation both win the great majority of the time. There is no program that beats both. 22:07:45 Oh, what an interesting NN URL. 22:07:45 http://www.unicode: esolangs.org/list 22:08:00 b_jhellonas! 22:09:09 This one's pretty interesting too: http://www./nick.com/8018/19/100/00621 22:11:29 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:11:58 I highly suspect that those aren't quite valid URLs... 22:11:59 http://ideone.com/ZqytvO <-- not that i particularly suspect you, but if you want people to visit your links, it's a good idea to speak enough to prove you're not a spammer 22:12:09 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 22:12:21 Oops 22:12:33 Aelloarnus! 22:12:34 I just thought it was weird and wanted to share it 22:12:41 hellørjan! 22:12:53 ok i didn't notice you had spoken before i joined. 22:12:59 Hullo boily 22:13:01 Aearnus: isn't that the top link from /r/lolphp today? 22:13:15 From today? Not sure, I was looking through all time 22:13:32 Also I used to hang around here under a different name, CrazyM4n 22:14:49 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:CrazyM4n 22:15:02 looks like we never weren't there at the same time and/or spacetime combination. 22:15:44 Gregor has such an incredibly stable idleness 22:15:53 [wiki] [[User:CrazyM4n]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43679&oldid=41432 * CrazyM4n * (+71) 22:18:53 Aearnus: aha, welcome back 22:19:21 Thanks! :p 22:19:30 there's a small formatting bug in the codu logs: the nickname field isn't _quite_ wide enough if someone maxes it out 22:19:56 which doesn't happen that often, but happened today 22:20:33 and then it line wraps 22:21:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:22:54 Yeah, when's the last time Gregor spoke? 22:23:21 a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away 22:23:50 the 17 days whois gives _might_ be correct, or not. 22:25:34 he changed nick on the 17th of july 22:26:11 the next day i nagged him about codu's clock, which has since been fixed 22:26:32 but no actual speaking was involved. 22:26:49 cod u nag him again twh 22:27:07 shellochaf. please be aware that that was a horrible pun. 22:27:38 halexandre 22:27:53 that pun was definitely fishy 22:28:16 boihly 22:28:26 * boily mapoles shachaf and then oerjan on the rebound 22:29:41 Is a mapole a maypole? 22:29:53 * oerjan counts this as a great success 22:29:59 `? mapole 22:30:00 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 22:30:19 it may be 22:30:47 And then if you keep looking at the definitions, you end up getting thrown for a loop. 22:30:59 the spork and corkscrew would certainly be appropriate for festivities 22:31:31 If I ever open up a café or something, I'm very tempted to call it “The Spork & Corkscrew”. 22:32:16 Really, you wouldn't call it the Sporkscrew? 22:32:18 will it have a whistling moose figure 22:32:23 i find that difficult to believe hth 22:32:57 sporkscrews are hard to hold properly tdnh 22:35:17 `` ls wisdom/*acallit | xargs -1 \? 22:35:19 xargs: invalid option -- '1' \ Usage: xargs [-0prtx] [--interactive] [--null] [-d|--delimiter=delim] \ [-E eof-str] [-e[eof-str]] [--eof[=eof-str]] \ [-L max-lines] [-l[max-lines]] [--max-lines[=max-lines]] \ [-I replace-str] [-i[replace-str]] [--replace[=replace-str]] \ [-n max-args] [--max-args=max-args] \ [-s 22:35:25 hmph 22:35:32 `` ls wisdom/*acallit | xargs -n 1 \? 22:35:33 wisdom/thwackamacallit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ wisdom/whatchamacallit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:35:39 darn 22:36:18 `` cat wisdom/*acallit 22:36:19 A thwackamacallit is like a whatchamacallit, but more painful. See mapole. \ A whatchamacallit is like a thwackamacallit, but less painful. 22:36:42 (probably going to have to call the place with a French name: «La cuillourchette et le tire-bouchon») 22:36:44 verycursive 22:37:07 uh, anybody know how to call a spork in French? 22:40:01 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuill%C3%A8re-fourchette hth 22:41:20 boring :/ 22:41:38 I prefer cuillourchette :D 22:43:39 from wikipedia's list, it appears that romance languages have portmanteauphobia 22:44:13 PORTMANTONS TOUTES LES CHOSES! 22:46:35 otoh i cannot recall a norwegian word for it, by analogy with swedish/icelandic it should be skjaffel 22:46:58 * boily is scared by the "skj" 22:47:13 don't let it skjewer you 22:47:46 * boily thwackamacalls shachaf 22:48:17 boily: it's pronounced approximately like english sh, although possibly more retroflex 22:48:58 it might depend a lot on dialect 22:49:48 as i mentioned earlier, wikipedia cannot agree with itself on which sh-like sound it is 22:50:01 that still haven't been resolved yet? 22:50:18 well i didn't bring it up 22:50:28 i'm not enough of a phonologist to make a decision 22:50:34 boily: oerjan doesn't like it when you bring up wikipedia issues to him hth 22:50:52 also it's on 3 different articles 22:50:54 I'll unbring the issue then. 22:51:39 i suspect it may differ between the dialects that have r-dental retroflex merging and those that have uvular r with no merging 22:52:06 also known as "uvul r" 22:52:09 time for me to saturate what passes as my brains with doubtful things and a good wash of ethylic liquefaction. 22:52:14 shachaf: ... 22:52:26 (the former may or may not consistently pronounce "rs" as the same sound. i cannot quite convince myself whether or not my own dialect does.) 22:52:26 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *THWACK* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 22:52:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FUMIGATED CHICKEN). 22:52:59 mostly due to the difficulty of finding any minimal pairs between sj and rs 22:53:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:53:53 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:54:03 (the former only happen at the beginning of syllables, except when used as a forced spelling on loanwords. the latter only happens at the end of syllables.) 22:54:08 *+s 22:55:21 oerjan: can there be a minimal pair involving two adjacent words/ 22:55:23 hm wait the first part isn't quite true 22:55:56 like, foo sjbar versus foors bar 22:56:14 Perl 6 keeps putting me in mind of lenses 22:57:07 b_jonas: that was what i was trying to think of. Mosjøen vs. Morsjøen, except it's not really rs in the latter 22:57:50 i think that might be as close as you get. and i cannot convince myself whether i really pronounce them differently. 22:58:27 oerjan: there's also no convincing minimal pair between "t" and "ty" in Hungarian. the best I have is "Nagyatád" vs "nagyatyád" but I'm not sure the latter is a word 22:58:44 ah 22:59:40 that's basically because "ty" is very rare 23:02:18 i recall reading that h vs. ng also have no minimal pairs, possibly goes for both english and norwegian 23:02:48 oerjan: um, in what language? 23:03:03 is that because ng goes only before a g, but h never goes before a g? 23:03:05 um i just mentioned two hth 23:03:23 it's because ng never starts a syllable and h always does 23:03:43 probably there's some compound exception there too 23:04:39 oh, that's how "h" works in English? ok 23:05:00 hm well when actually pronounced 23:05:18 I've no idea when "h" is actually pronounced in English. it seems random. 23:05:24 true 23:05:32 i guess it goes better for norwegian, then 23:05:44 but I'm quite sure "h" doesn't have to start a syllable in Hungarian (though it often does) 23:05:53 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 23:06:51 that said, a minimal pair between h and ng might be difficult still because you'd have to find a word with "hk" or "hg" which is somewhat rare 23:07:00 we don't use it to form digraphs, either 23:07:19 and it's especially rare if you don't want it in a boundary of a compound where it would be very hard to put an ng sound 23:07:23 so it might be impossible 23:08:28 um, "h" is used to form digraphs in Hungarian, namely "ch" and "kh" exclusively in borrowings (mostly from ancient Greek or German) and "th" (in old traditional fancy spelling of noble family names) 23:09:06 i suppose we have that old fancy th too. (viz. Thue) 23:09:33 even though "ch" and "kh" appear only in borrowings but is permanent in the sense that it is kept forever no matter how hungarianized the borrowing becomes, so they're effectively real digraphs 23:09:47 in normalized spelling, ch/kh -> k, anyway 23:10:02 in norwegian 23:10:32 kiropraktor 23:11:10 "th" is not used productively, but kept in well-known old names including "Kossuth" and "Batthyány" 23:14:44 also, "h" is supposedly silent in some words where it appears at the end of the syllable, but nobody knows which words they are, basically it's silent when it'd be hard to pronounce (or by tradition or something) but that differs for everyone 23:17:43 bahtthyány 23:17:55 I think the random silent "h" is a rule made up by teachers to screw with students who have to learn it 23:18:05 fahncy 23:19:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:21:05 Do we Anglophones have a lot of silent Hs? 23:22:13 tswett: supposedly yes, but at _start_ of words, where Hungarian doesn't have any 23:22:15 it's nothing compared to gaelic 23:22:32 and it seems totally random 23:22:38 I think "honor" has a silent "h" 23:22:53 Yeah. 23:23:00 And then there's the word "herb". 23:23:02 oerjan: I think English has crazier fahncy noble family names 23:23:02 it's because it's mostly in words inherited from french 23:23:11 I want to make a Tree-based language 23:23:16 Sort of like a Stack-based language 23:23:20 BUT WITH TREES 23:24:01 English has something for silent consonants at start of words, I never understood it 23:24:26 who knows why 23:24:30 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Silent_initial_consonants has a partial list with written consonant clusters where the first letter is silent 23:24:51 but _those_ are at least consistent in that it either always happens for a letter pair or never 23:25:03 the initial "h" is apparently random, or at least I don't know the logi 23:25:23 the logic is that it's silent if it was borrowed from french that way hth 23:25:44 ah yes, the most famous English one is I think Featherstonehaugh 23:25:44 which might depend on _when_ it was borrowed, i guess. 23:25:59 oerjan: yes, and French has random logic for initial "h" too 23:26:42 i think that's because french lost it, regained it, then lost it again, or something? 23:27:12 there's also "ch", which in French is pronounced as /S/ most of the time, but sometimes as /k/ when it's borrowed from greek or something. 23:27:40 English does that worse, because it has both "th" and "ch" which are sometimes pronounced as /t/ or /k/ when borrowed from greek 23:28:08 and "chthonic" is the absolute most riddiculous combination of all that 23:28:25 gin and chthonic 23:29:22 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:29:29 oerjan: no, it's pronounced with a /T/ or /kT/, not with a /t/ 23:29:53 wut 23:29:57 I think "th" is pronounced as a /t/ when it's borrowed from latin or french, not when it's borrowed from greek, or something 23:30:16 whereas "ch" is pronounced as /k/ when it's borrowed from greek? 23:30:17 gah 23:30:18 I don't really know 23:30:26 I think you just have to learn the individual words 23:30:56 i know that greek changed its pronunciation from /t/ to /T/ 23:31:03 so it might depend on time again 23:31:21 (technically, _aspirated_ /t/) 23:31:37 which is of course the usual for germanic languages 23:32:29 and not for hungarian afair 23:33:25 (germanic sound change was /t/ -> /t^h/ and /t^h/ -> /T/) 23:33:45 or wait 23:34:22 good eving 23:35:44 /d/ -> /t^h/ and /t/ -> /T/, i mean 23:35:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_law 23:36:31 th in english is pronounced as a voiceless interdental fricative, except in a very limited set of words where it is voiced 23:36:42 norwegian since turned the /T/ back into /t^h/ 23:37:28 some relevant words with the rarer pronunciation are: Thomas, echo, chameleon, chaos, character, chemistry, choir, cholera, chronic/chronicle/chronology/chronometer 23:37:46 "the", "this", "their", "then", "there", "that" are all voiced 23:37:51 or sometimes, if it had been voiced, /d/ or //, iirc 23:38:17 -!- qlkzy has joined. 23:38:59 b_jonas: i don't have any trouble with the ch ones, but i was pretty old until i fully realized the th exceptions even existed 23:39:13 this is fascinating 23:39:26 oren: other, too 23:39:37 whether 23:39:42 hither and dither 23:40:21 southern, northern, but not in south or north 23:40:22 oerjan: you probably pronounce "chronicles" with "ik" rather than "ike" 23:40:44 shachaf: wut 23:40:46 isn;t it ik? 23:40:49 that's certainly how i pronounced it until i had to learn the english pronunciations of the books of the bible 23:41:26 shachaf: argh wiktionary doesn't have the pronunciation of that 23:41:52 shachaf: I think that most english speakers say kron ik lls 23:42:06 where ll is a sylabic L 23:42:13 i used to be among those english speakers 23:43:06 etymylocially it should be kron eek lls 23:43:24 from latin 23:44:13 oren: that's not very convincing, you have to consider the great vowel shift 23:44:21 if you are doing actual etymology 23:44:46 well my oxford english dictionary has a short i 23:44:57 for "chronicle" 23:45:03 maybe that's how they pronounce it in oxford 23:45:16 * oerjan notes that google translate uses short i in its pronunciation 23:45:35 https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=define:chronicle hth 23:45:35 hello 23:46:13 that reminds me I need to add IPA to my font 23:46:15 oerjan: what do you think is the probability that a random TM is universal as states and/or symbols goes to infinity? 23:46:29 shachaf: did you know that define: doesn't work if you're using google with norwegian settings tdnh 23:46:51 https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define:chronicle hth 23:47:08 thx 23:47:35 shachaf: well that's definitely not the "ike" sound 23:47:35 I have partially fixed my gopher service now; not all files are available yet, but the server works 23:47:41 that helped xtremely? 23:47:49 oerjan: yes, i was pulling your leg 23:48:10 what are the most common exceptions for "th"? besides Thomas, there's apparently Thames, Esther, Mathias, Mathilda, plus a few words where the th is apparently simply silent because Englishman are lazy to pronounce consonant clusters 23:48:12 shachaf: pulling my leg is scow tdnh 23:48:29 where Mathilda is some obsolate spelling of Matilda 23:48:38 oerjan: I went through the books of the bible and kept laughing at how ridiculous the translations to English were. 23:48:55 I wouldn't be surprised if it was pronounced "chronicles" instead of "chronicles", I said. 23:49:10 And since then I've been pronouncing it that way. 23:49:21 bionicles 23:49:32 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:49:38 (Actually my last sentence is the only thing I said on this topic that wasn't completely true.) 23:52:48 only because you just hinted at implications rather than outright stating them, i guess 23:53:43 one might say that you were pulling your own leg 23:54:06 "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." 23:54:35 I did stop myself from typing that last part. 23:55:04 oh okay. it's quote mitch hedberg hour. i approve. carry on. 23:56:19 b_jonas: thyme hth 23:56:23 I have a dictionary too it says with the short sound 23:57:13 (The dictionary I have on my shelf is Webster though) 23:57:59 quintopia: i don't really know him so i cannot quote any more. btw i'm not sure of that probability, and it might be different for states and symbols... 23:58:20 oerjan: ok 23:58:24 states and symbols? 23:58:25 `? thyme 23:58:26 Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano. 23:58:29 is it Chu space hour? 23:58:37 shachaf: see above 23:58:37 http://chu.stanford.edu/live/#7 23:58:50 Chu spaces are TG. 23:58:52 I thought it is IV hour 23:59:03 Does IV mean 4? 23:59:07 (Almost is V hour) 23:59:12 I would say that it's XVI hour. 23:59:19 shachaf: Yes, it is 23:59:27 Almost XVII hour. 23:59:45 oerjan: got no intuition on it? 23:59:48 You aren't supposed to use more than 12 hours with roman numbers 2015-08-04: 00:00:29 (Actually for the clock hours it is IIII not IV for four o'clock) 00:00:44 zzo38: Got any Romans to back you up on that? 00:01:02 No 00:01:13 Unfortunately I do not have. 00:01:45 zzo38: actually the romans used both spellings interchangeably throughout much of their reign 00:02:16 (it's XX hour here) 00:02:27 For the clock it is IIII though 00:02:46 prescriptivist 00:03:18 quintopia: my hunch is that it might be 1, _assuming_ there is no simple reason why a TM might always get stuck in a subgraph. 00:03:54 whose probabilty doesn't shrink to 0 as symbols and/or states grow. 00:04:50 oerjan: i thought 1 as well, because i was thinking that there should be a subgraph in which you COULD get stuck, given a particular encoding, which was universal 00:05:23 is there an official answer (or at least 0, 1, or neither) 00:05:29 no 00:05:35 darn 00:05:54 it seems like a difficult question 00:06:04 i wouldn't expect an answer yet anyway 00:08:16 quintopia: actually my hunch is a combination of both. if it's low, it might be _either_ from getting stuck in something small non-TC, or from getting lost in a large graph with no TC sub-component 00:08:55 so...you think it's zero? or you think those two things are both unlikely? 00:09:14 i think that those two things are more than my brain can tackle at this time 00:09:29 mine too 00:09:32 they depend on graph stuff 00:10:24 and birthday-paradox things to ensure small subgraphs exist 00:10:50 hm maybe even ramsey numbers. 00:11:19 given a pair o' docs, what's the likelihood that they share the same birthday? 00:11:29 1/365 00:11:33 what's the likelihood that they share different birthdays? 00:11:48 depends how good friends they are 00:12:27 pretty good friends 00:12:41 then maybe they'll decide to share birthdays 00:12:53 i would if I were that good of a friend 00:13:08 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:13:24 actually, i might even swap birthdays with a random stranger just for kicks 00:13:26 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:14:06 if they weren't friends, why would we call them a pair o' docs? 00:14:12 i guess they could be business partners or something 00:14:17 but no, they're good friends 00:14:21 they cuddle a lot, too 00:15:08 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:16:43 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 00:21:11 Hm 00:21:16 Uh 00:25:21 Ok now I have most of IPA and all the Hebrew letters 00:28:34 whoa whoa whoa 00:28:38 what do those look like 00:28:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:29:56 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:31:52 Wisdom from the neural net: 00:31:55 15:18:53: high on a subset of English instance policy? 00:32:14 Man, I don't understand why subsets of English instance policy haven't been banned. They're a gateway drug. 00:32:36 oerjan, tswett: Idling is zen. 00:32:43 * tswett nods. 00:33:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:37:46 Gregor: did you see my point about the logs? i think one more character width for the nickname might be nice 00:39:11 or whatever it takes to make http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2015-08-03#085542hooplavilion1 not wrap 00:39:24 hi Gregor 00:39:29 It doesn't wrap for me... 00:39:48 Gregor: There's a small problem with `revert that could be fixed with a small patch. 00:40:26 Gregor: Just give me the patch then ;) 00:40:38 shachaf: I think fizzie has it. 00:40:41 Gregor: just the last > for me, although for the above it wraps before the [0]> 00:41:22 Which browser? 00:41:33 IE 11 00:42:00 Well there's yer problem 00:42:16 How does it look in equally-useful Netscape Navigator 3? 00:42:28 i have no idea, since i do not have that installed. 00:42:41 ... 00:42:47 is the joke "microsoft products are scow"? 00:43:01 i could try with Microsoft Edge ith 00:43:07 If "scow" is meant to be "shit", then yes? 00:43:07 (now _that's_ scow) 00:43:23 scow (n): a wide-beamed sailing dinghy. 00:43:42 that is another meaning of the word 00:43:55 for example a garbage scow is a scow in that sense 00:44:53 It would be unusual to haul garbage on a dinghy. 00:44:59 shachaf: do you also think Gregor is being uncooperative today tdnh 00:45:16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_scow 00:45:17 boom 00:45:30 http://www.trekcc.org/1e/cardimages/errata/Radioactive-Garbage-Scow.jpg 00:59:25 Gregor: ok after seeing width: 10em in your style sheet i'm now wondering how it ever displays as much as it _does_. clearly i don't understand css... 01:01:38 no one understands css hth 01:05:51 Now I have all the IPA letters 01:06:37 what unicode block should I do next 01:06:51 (must be fixed-width) 01:13:23 what are your hebrew letters like 01:16:27 * oerjan thinks IE feels zippier now after upgrading to windows 10. also dehibernation seems faster. 01:16:51 which is good because yesterday other things seemed slow 01:17:40 shachaf: hold on I'll get a screenshot 01:20:05 -!- variable has joined. 01:24:13 http://www.orenwatson.be/pic.png 01:25:20 that took some time because I had to write a program to output arbitrary unicode ranges in utf-8 first 01:26:51 oren: oh wow that font 01:26:58 Is that what you were working on 01:28:13 Yeah 01:28:35 -!- Froox has joined. 01:29:43 I have ASCII, Latin-1, Latin-A, IPA, Hebrew, Greek, Cyrillic, Box Drawing, some Arrows and Math Symbols, all the Block Elements, and all the Geometric Shapes 01:30:01 oren thats a movie hacker font right thete 01:30:03 There 01:30:08 yup 01:30:33 I iz teh HAXXXORZ doesn't even look like a joke in this font 01:30:41 `unicode 👳👲 01:30:42 U+1F473 MAN WITH TURBAN \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 b3 UTF-16BE: d83ddc73 Decimal: 👳 \ 👳 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F472 MAN WITH GUA PI MAO \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 b2 UTF-16BE: d83ddc72 Decimal: 👲 \ 👲 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 01:31:23 -!- Froox has quit (Client Quit). 01:31:23 ah, the Offensive Japanese Stereotype of Indian and Chinese 01:31:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:31:29 Character 01:31:42 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:33:54 I'm getting another screenshot showing more of the coverage 01:35:18 http://www.orenwatson.be/latin.png 01:35:42 is that enough accents!!!?!?!?!!?!/ 01:36:59 or does some crazy european language need Latin-B too 01:38:08 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 01:42:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:43:15 http://www.orenwatson.be/greekipacyrnotdone.png 01:43:36 the coverage of ipa is basically done, but greek and cyrillic need work 01:46:58 but the next on my list is hankaku katakana 01:49:10 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:50:35 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:02:10 -!- tromp has joined. 02:06:26 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:06:49 So, have you guys used m4 before 02:07:36 I seem to recall using it for... something... a long time ago 02:09:00 * oren reloads youtube 02:09:06 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU 02:09:37 YOU BLEW IT UP, YOU MANIACS! 02:10:46 oren: that's going in the wrong direction hth 02:10:59 please draw RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE next 02:11:29 It's fun 02:12:00 FUCK, STOP RUINING EVERYTHING WITH TRANSPARENT BULLSHIT 02:12:44 I WANT THE INTERNAT BACK THE WAY IT WAS IN 2002 02:20:05 IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK THAT PEOPLE KEEP THINGS THE WAY THEYARE 02:20:28 yEs 02:20:42 I like my left aligned, white background courier new damnit! 02:22:42 *dammit 02:25:48 Aearnus: that's the internet from 1994 about avtually 02:26:44 2002 had CSS, it just didn't have all these pointless effects that hinder usablity 02:26:50 oren: although honestly, with nice spacing and alignment, that courier new website can look perfectly fine 02:27:49 One site that has kept its usablity, with no bullshit, all these years is newgrounds.com 02:27:50 The only time I've ever used illiterate CSS (as I've taken to calling it) is when I made an icon wobble when you mouse over it on for fun 02:28:18 s/on// 02:29:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:31:12 Hellu 02:31:21 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:37:20 anyone on this channel who works for google: tell the youtube team to give me a "switch to the old player" button 02:40:19 oren: but that's flash 02:40:23 And flash is eww 02:42:11 I have html5 disabled. flash is great, it is mature 02:42:37 Flash has wroked fine for me since 1998 02:43:10 YOU MONSTER 02:43:18 HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF, OREN? 02:44:57 I remember when it was always called Shockwave Flash 02:46:24 .swf files were a mainstay of animation and gaming throughout my adolescence. I won't hear anybody badmouth it! 02:46:50 I wish this channel had a bit less yelling. 02:47:01 WELL YOUR WISH HAS BEEN GRANTED 02:47:04 :P 02:47:08 I'm done now 02:47:14 WOULD YOU PREFER IT IF I YELL 02:47:38 Windows XP! Shockwave Flash! Table Layouts! IFrames! 02:48:30 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:48:58 There was nothing wrong with any of those from a USER's point of view. But they must be replaces becuase some shitwizards decided for us. 02:49:21 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 02:49:21 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:49:57 The main reason that SWF in particular is dying is because it's a pile of insecure crap that Adobe can't be assed to fix. 02:51:23 Table layouts and iframes are just out of vogue. They're still perfectly valid HTML. 02:51:24 XP was OK 02:51:26 They could solve it easily by having a user-whitelist of urls that embedded SWFs can come from. 02:51:43 Yes, and Firefox has it. 02:51:55 I whitelist Flash on: Youtube 02:52:18 We have: Muffins 02:52:20 But, yeah, Adobe is basically trying to kill SWF. 02:52:46 Officially it isn't, but they're only begrudgingly doing any sort of improvements on it. 02:52:59 I should contribute to an effort to write a open-source swf player 02:53:36 assuming there is one 02:54:19 I believe the furthest along one is Shumway, which is a Mozilla project. 02:54:24 Cool 02:54:52 I'm too busy to actually write code, but do they have a patreon on something? 02:54:55 Shumway's kinda neat in that it's actually implementing SWF on top of HTML5 and Javascript. 02:55:31 So long as SWF's I downloaded in 2007 still play 02:55:34 0.o 02:55:36 Kewlzez 02:55:59 The goal is to get it to do just that. Basically passing SWFs to it instead of a plugin. 02:56:08 great 02:56:22 (ATM it does that, but it's not at all the default and such) 03:01:55 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:02:23 the other, better, goal is to kill swfs 03:14:15 -!- tromp has joined. 03:16:15 With fire? 03:18:55 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:22:20 So Homestuck will keep working? 03:23:16 you know what, fuck this. I'm gonna watch my videos through vlc from now on, until youtube's player isn't shit 03:26:57 show the fucking progress bar while the video is playing, assholes 03:31:40 I think they do... 03:31:58 they don't, you have to keep moving your mouse 03:32:11 otherwise it disappears 03:32:41 also the progress bar no longer shows the runtime. 03:33:08 well in HTML5 anyway 03:33:34 luckily I know how to disable that 03:34:42 about:config, you turn off webm 03:35:17 presto, the better, but still ruined, youtube flah player 03:36:01 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has joined. 03:37:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:41:11 DID SOMEONE SAY TABLE LAYOUTS 03:43:44 -!- TristanBomb has joined. 03:45:23 -!- TristanBomb has quit (Client Quit). 03:51:18 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 04:11:47 Hmm... where can I get a big zipfile full of all the ceritficate authorities' pems 04:15:12 Including Honest Achmed? 04:16:59 I'd be happy to give you one containing all of them including mine if you give me a minute. 04:17:59 "Honest pikhq's Certificate Authority! Certificates right away, no questions asked or your money back!" 04:18:18 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:19:22 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:20:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Client Quit). 04:20:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:20:58 shachaf: sure. See, this program doesn't let me specify not to verify the stupid https. 04:21:15 -!- tromp has joined. 04:22:01 but it does let me specify one or more pems to use as authorities 04:22:44 so if I have all the authorities, then that should let me connect to the damn thing 04:23:58 security may allow freedom of speech, but all I want right now is the freedom to NOt be secure 04:24:24 What distro are you on? 04:24:48 puppy linux. I am trying to use vlc to watch an internet stream 04:24:59 They typically have trusted roots somewhere in /etc... 04:25:18 Oh, that's made out of Ubuntu these days, isn't it? 04:25:32 /etc/ssl/certs 04:25:57 I have an empty folder called /etc/ssl/certs. so now where do I download all the certs!?!?! 04:26:07 For fucks sake, it's empty?!? 04:26:15 yeah... lol 04:26:54 can I torrent the cets from somewhere maybe 04:28:36 ok I found some pem files but I probably need a few hundred since I don't know which one I need 04:31:03 googled torrent ssl certs .pem files doesn't give me anything. shit. back when I needed .dlls that would have given me everything I needed! 04:32:11 ssl certs pem files collection rar did not give me a damn thing 04:33:50 Ooh I found a command to download the certificate for any url 04:35:27 If that works the way I imagine that works, better not be MITMed when you do it 04:35:40 Although first-connect MITM is always a risk anyway 04:35:53 Oh, for a different reason 04:36:13 (forcing http. But doing what you're doing can get you fake https) 04:39:11 fake https, real https, I want my damn videos 04:41:59 yeah this works. I first use the command to get the pem for the video link, then trust it directly with the vlc --http-ca 04:42:38 If I see the right video, then I haven't been MITMed 04:44:10 what if a few pixels are off 04:44:14 whatever 04:44:26 what if someone has subtly altered your reality 04:44:30 -!- Hooloovoo42 has changed nick to Hoolootwo. 04:44:37 it's me 04:44:54 I am controlling your videos 04:46:07 If you want proper security you should agree the codes in person 04:47:12 Some webpages refuse to display without scripts on (sometimes to try to stop you from copying stuff to the clipboard or saving pictures or whatever), but Stylish can be used to fix this (the "Inspector" command can also be used to help with such thing) 05:01:04 ok I found a better mothod 05:01:44 you take http://curl.haxx.se/ca/cacert.pem and put it in .local/share/vlc/ssl/certs/ 05:03:57 I need to remember where to find this megacert file in case I need it again 05:06:05 http://prntscr.com/80lpzg cinnamon is good(tm) 05:06:36 that looks like a DRM issue 05:06:51 or maybe a graphics card driver 05:09:07 DRM issue 05:09:21 i illegally acquired my linux 05:11:46 Direct Rendering Manager 05:12:35 ah lol 05:16:15 whatever it is, it's not cinnamon's fault unless it's doing something extraordinarily dumb 05:17:46 it's probably the vm it's running in for some reason or another 05:18:04 ah that sounds about right 05:21:49 What window managers any of you people who use Linux are using, and is it with a desktop environment too? 05:25:50 I'm using lightdm with mate 05:29:27 zzo38: using xfce but I rather dislike it because gtk2 is meh 05:30:31 Aearnus: Maybe you should change it? 05:30:47 I removed the one that came with my computer and replaced it 05:33:04 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:46:45 zzo38: well, I installed xfce 05:46:48 I used to like it 05:46:56 but that was a while ago 05:47:04 it's not bad, just not my favorite 05:48:23 I now have all the halfwidth katakana 05:53:45 You said because of gtk2, what way would you prefer? 05:54:01 zzo38: well I'd like gtk3 support but w/e honestly 05:54:17 I need a WM that works well on a laptop 05:54:28 (maybe even one that works well with a touchscreen) 05:54:38 -!- Wright_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:57:17 What is the difference of gtk2 with gtk3? 05:57:46 zzo38: gtk2 is just deprecated, that's all 05:58:52 I would prefer Athena widgets 06:11:12 alright, I'm trying MATE, LXDE, and IceWM 06:14:32 iceWM crashed my laptop, promising 06:15:31 needs more tiling 06:15:48 I am using i3-wm, so that is another thing to try (although I am not using all of the other programs that commonly come with it, just the window manager and a custom status bar) 06:16:01 i am using herbstluft 06:16:22 What is that? 06:16:30 a tiling wm 06:16:58 But do you have the other information of it? 06:18:01 I'm not a fan of tiling WMs 06:18:09 but maybe I should be, on my small screen space 06:18:19 are there any that have emacs-esq keybinds? 06:20:57 maybe I'll try catwm https://github.com/pyknite/catwm 06:21:04 it's pretty much nothing 06:24:26 alright, i'll also try pekwm, fluxbox, openbox, i3, and awesome 06:25:08 -!- J_Phone has joined. 06:25:20 -!- J_Phone has quit (Client Quit). 06:26:02 herbstluft can make empty frames. that works a lot better for me than what i3 does 06:27:40 i used pek before switching to tiling 06:30:30 i guess i'll try herbsluft too 06:31:52 ugh, i really don't like icewm 06:31:54 that's one down 06:36:14 I bet you won't like jwm then 06:37:38 pekwm is okay, it doesn't use the system menu which is frustrating though 06:39:23 I just load programs with the xterm (except for the xterm itself I can push Win+Enter to load it), so no menu is needed 06:39:56 that's not a bad idea 06:40:25 fluxbox is okay - better than pekwm, but it acts weird with my mouse 06:43:17 http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 06:44:40 oren: it looks a little blurry on windows 06:45:15 http://prntscr.com/80mbc2 like, look at the @ sign 06:45:43 Ok wtf. That is some weird shit 06:46:04 I'm on linux, it doesn't look like that... 06:47:11 I should fuse the page to an image for people who don't have CSS3 fonts turned on 06:48:29 i'm really liking openbox 06:49:50 i3 freezes on start, promising 06:50:49 :D 06:54:34 alright, right now, the listing is, from worst to best: icewm, fluxbox, pekwm, i3, openbox, lxde 06:59:36 fnird. 07:01:01 Lol. people doing "self-experiments" and try to live without a smartphone 07:01:02 what the hell 07:01:33 Obviously you can live without a smartphone. That's how we used to live 10 years ago. 07:01:55 and only few people died 10 years ago because they had no smartphone 07:02:17 I do not have a smartphone 07:02:28 You're a good person. 07:02:30 mroman: i guess you underestimate that 07:02:37 myname: underestimate what? 07:03:01 go try it 07:03:12 it changes things a lot 07:03:24 I bought my first smartphone not even a year ago 07:04:18 and I usually leave it at home when I leave the house. 07:04:30 weirdo :p 07:04:41 I mean.. Smartphones are cool 07:04:43 they have nice features. 07:04:54 You can use the internet from the smartphone on your laptop 07:04:57 which is mainly why I bought it 07:04:58 without it, it'd be bored to hell 07:05:11 because in my new flat room there was no internet. 07:05:15 I don't like touchscreen either 07:05:26 so I bought it with an internet subscription mainly for that purpose :) 07:05:29 well, my laptop practically doesn't work without a power plug 07:06:08 a Smartphone has two good features 07:06:15 reading manga on android is just so comfortable <3 07:06:18 Mobile Hot Spot/Tethering and google maps 07:06:31 navigation? 07:06:39 playing music 07:06:41 Google maps for navigation, yeah 07:06:45 chatting 07:06:54 I have a stereo for playing music :) 07:07:00 and a shitload of CDs 07:07:15 won't help you if you're not at home 07:07:27 why would I listen to music if I'm not at home? 07:07:39 Why would you want to do that? :p 07:07:44 why wouldn't you? 07:07:50 what for? 07:08:06 If I'm at work I can listen music on my workplace laptop + headphones 07:08:27 If I'm at home I can listen on my stereo 07:08:37 the only thing left is "when travelling from home to work" 07:08:47 For music I have radio, CD, and computer. If I go to somewhere else, if they have radio then I can listen to the CBC radio. As it turns out I can also get music from my VCR, even when the TV is not turned on 07:09:24 http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.png 07:09:34 it is supposed to look like that 07:09:39 i'd like to hear music or podcasts while riding my bike, for example 07:10:04 weirdo 07:10:36 Also, the CBC radio isn't only music, anyways 07:11:40 but yeah... smartphones are pretty practical. 07:12:01 the two best DE's in my opinion are lxde < xfce < mate 07:12:05 this was a waste of tim 07:12:07 *time 07:12:16 I usually take it with when doing parkour 07:12:24 mostly so I can call someone if I happen to have an accident :) 07:14:10 i'd use a dumbphone for that purpose 07:15:55 why? 07:16:01 In case it gets stolen? 07:17:21 parkour sounds like asking for a broken screen 07:17:51 it is cheaper in case it breaks during actions, it is less likely to break, the battery lasts way longer 07:18:32 what oren says 07:19:10 ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇ 07:20:09 I should use those characters to make an animation module for ncurses vlc 07:21:21 what should it do? 07:21:36 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:21:57 i thought of making a ncurses chess using the chess figures in unicode 07:22:00 you know, like bars that go up and down to the music 07:22:12 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 07:22:18 ah 07:22:22 yeah 07:22:52 I need to improve symbol support in my font 07:23:14 I don't have chess only the four suits 07:24:48 oren: you keep it in a backpack. 07:24:56 i guess you could make nice simulation games with unicode symbols 07:25:07 or something like sim city 07:25:12 which you just put down somewhere near. 07:25:20 It'd be pretty easy to steal. 07:25:54 mroman: so, in case of emergency yo crawl over rooftops to your backpack and call an ambulance? 07:26:22 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:26:39 -!- trn has joined. 07:33:23 after extensive testing, i've concluded 07:33:26 that i want to go back to xfce 07:44:02 It'd be pretty much illegal to jump over someone else's rooftop 07:44:22 also most practitioners don't do rooftop things btw. 07:44:42 also flat rooftops are rare in switzerland for example 07:45:43 (Parkour itself is somewhat in a gray area) 07:46:13 Technically you're only allowed to train on your own or public property. 07:46:23 (or on someone else's with his permission) 07:47:01 However, you will be frequently shooed away from public property by police or some government employee 07:47:26 -!- diginet has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:47:33 -!- diginet has joined. 07:47:47 for insurance reasons 07:48:01 if you fall on someones property, the owner is accountable 07:48:10 which is the government for public properties 07:50:09 and it looks like some US cities have a general ban on doing parkour o_O 07:50:29 "Though no injuries have been reported, the city’s attorney is worried that someone will get hurt and the city will get sued." 07:50:40 yeah, that's number one reason they don't want you to train on public property. 07:55:08 and you obviously destroy public property 07:56:25 handrails aren't usually designed to withstand too much horizontal force although thank god most are stable enough but in the long run you destroy them 07:59:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:00:31 I have reached 1000 glyphs 08:10:22 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:16:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:22:27 -!- Heyya has joined. 08:22:42 -!- Heyya has quit (Client Quit). 08:35:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:08 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:09 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:09 -!- lleu has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:09 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:09 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:09 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:10 -!- izabera has quit (*.net *.split). 08:35:10 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 08:36:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:37:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:37:35 -!- trn has joined. 08:37:35 -!- nortti has joined. 08:37:35 -!- lleu has joined. 08:37:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:37:35 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:37:35 -!- HackEgo has joined. 08:37:35 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 08:37:35 -!- izabera has joined. 08:37:35 -!- newsham has joined. 08:37:59 hm 08:38:00 cool 08:38:07 if you travel into a country 08:38:13 and step on a landmine 08:38:15 you're fucked 08:38:19 even if you survive 08:38:28 health insurance won't pay :) 08:38:35 What if you glue the landmine to your foo 08:38:37 t 08:38:49 also if you get hurt during an earthquake 08:38:51 they won't pay either 08:39:02 Is this health insurance or travel insurance 08:39:10 health insurance 08:39:34 they also won't pay if a nuclear plant explodes 08:39:54 they don't pay for damage caused by ionizing radiation 08:40:05 What about travel insurance 08:40:13 what's that? 08:40:25 Isn't that so you can get your money back if war breaks out in some country 08:40:49 like if you book a year in advance, you can insure yourself in case you actually can't go on that vacation for some important reason 08:41:46 All travel insurances I've had have had a medical expenses component. 08:43:45 Hm. 08:44:20 Yeah I think the obligotary health insurance doesn't pay for stuff that happens in a foreign country 08:44:25 don't go to countries with landmines 08:44:27 if you have to visit a hospital there you're fucked 08:46:11 The travel insurance provided by my employer also covers personal travel (and my wife, although only if she's travelling with me), but it's kind of limited to only cover medical/health stuff, not so much cancellation costs or lost luggage or that kind of stuff. 08:47:13 ideally you have a better insurance than just the obligatory one 08:47:33 if you go missing on a hike and they have to search you you're fucked with the regular one :D 08:49:14 -!- Aearnus has changed nick to Aearnus|IRCCloud. 08:49:30 hm 08:49:31 wait 08:50:17 I don't know this looks suspicious 08:50:48 they list things under complementary insurances that should already be covered by the obligatory one. 08:53:17 damn I hate this. 08:53:32 This is a legal jungle and information is spread across miles! 08:56:12 law is good to fuck people over 08:56:19 because it's totally asynchronous information 08:56:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:56:52 you can rely on people not knowing everything because they really don't know everything they should. 09:00:40 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:01:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:02:06 -!- Froox has joined. 09:02:42 -!- Aearnus has joined. 09:04:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:04:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:05:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:06:18 https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/anti-social-behaviour-crime-and-police-bill 09:06:22 o_O 09:07:41 mroman, that seems like it ought to be at least two different acts 09:11:02 I can't find the actual law text anyway 09:11:17 just 70 pages long documents with "impact assessments" "fact sheets" and stuff like that 09:11:30 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/12/contents/enacted/data.htm 09:13:12 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:14:41 uh. 09:14:46 "surrender of property" 09:15:03 they can take away your smartphone for 48 hours :D 09:18:13 "conduct that has caused, or is likely to cause, harassment, alarm or distress to any person," 09:18:19 that's a very broad definition. 09:18:49 Yes 09:19:11 although I wouldn't know how to define it otherwise 09:20:47 also "any person"? 09:20:49 like 09:20:50 even me? 09:20:55 Taneb is causing me alarm. 09:20:58 and distress! 09:21:09 He invents weird things. 09:21:18 mroman, your accusation distresses and alarms me 09:21:35 so 09:21:39 I said it first! 09:22:23 Isn't littering against the law anyway? 09:22:33 I mean most of the stuff is probably already covered by some other law 09:22:46 at least here. Littering is illegal. 09:23:14 there are legally defined rest periods and things like that 09:23:57 I am not sure whether littering is illegal here 09:24:15 Rather than making such a broad law you could just make a few specific laws 09:24:23 such as prohibiting littering, prohibit noise after 10pm 09:25:46 "Anti-social behaviour" is a common sight in the UK per-neighbourhood crime maps https://www.police.uk/ has. 09:25:50 if teens go on a vandalism streak that surely is already covered by some "you may not damage an other one's property"-law 09:26:14 uh 09:26:18 "Find your neighbourhood" 09:26:34 "Gosforth and great park" 09:26:43 270 crimes this month 09:26:44 jesus 09:26:49 oh. in may 09:26:54 270 crimes in may 09:27:03 It lags by a few months. 09:27:12 "Bicycle theft (1): Includes the taking without consent or theft of a pedal cycle" 09:27:34 101 were anti-social behaviour 09:27:52 22 sex offences 09:27:59 mroman, I think I used to live in Gosforth 09:28:01 that's a lot of sex offences for a month though 09:28:05 Taneb: me too 09:28:15 Like, in 1996 09:28:17 "Sex offences", IIRC, include things like domestic violence. 09:28:34 mroman, the Gosforth in Newcastle that is 09:28:47 Taneb: that's the one 09:28:51 Huh 09:29:03 I lived there for two weeks :p 09:30:06 mroman, you realise that it is dangerously (25 miles) close to Hexham? 09:30:55 Why is that dangerous? 09:31:31 Because one day you might go out for a drive and wind up in Hexham 09:31:48 I don't think I'll ever be back in gosforth 09:31:55 It was a two week language stay 09:32:22 Currently I am in "York City and East" 09:32:35 Two weeks, and you're already sure you'll never be back? Must be a horrible place. 09:33:06 mroman, when I was very small my gran used to push me around Gosforth Park 09:33:38 fizzie: I mean I'm pretty certain I'll never leave switzerland ever again. 09:33:42 maybe 09:33:44 but who knows. 09:33:59 but it's very unlikely that I wind up in Gosforth again 09:34:01 I won't leave Switzerland for a very long time 09:34:12 Largely because I am not in Switzerland and have little reason to visit 09:34:27 I think I've left Switzerland twice already. 09:34:36 We have Cities in Switzerland. 09:34:44 like any other country :D 09:35:00 I don't think, eg, the Vatican has cities plural 09:35:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:35:24 Vatican isn't a real country *blasphemy* 09:35:39 and it has a huge crime rate 09:36:19 it has the highest crime rate in the world 09:36:55 and it's a monarchy 09:37:22 http://qz.com/333313/milliions-of-facebook-users-have-no-idea-theyre-using-the-internet/ 09:37:22 and the monarch is some guy that speaks to some other imaginative guy 09:37:50 *imaginary guy 09:40:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:24:30 Union-Find data structure is really interesting 10:24:43 jopp 10:24:45 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:29:33 -!- Aearnus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:34:33 -!- Aearnus has joined. 10:39:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:40:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:45:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:45:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:54:45 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:02:29 final int i = Interpreter.builtins.get(s); 11:02:30 hu 11:02:36 how can this throw nullpointerexception? 11:02:42 oh wait 11:02:46 auto unboxing? 11:02:51 probably 11:03:15 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:07:02 in java, everything can throw a nullpointer exception 11:07:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:09:00 yeah no 11:09:21 only if you dereference a NullPointer 11:09:52 get() usually doesn't throw NullPointerException 11:10:07 however, unboxing a NullPointer will 11:13:12 is this java? 11:13:22 yeah 11:13:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:32:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:37:14 -!- Aearnus has quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in). 11:43:29 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:53:53 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:56:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:01:42 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:03:15 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:12:09 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:12:38 good morning. 12:13:48 Heya 12:29:15 -!- Froo has joined. 12:32:10 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:46:15 I'm getting quite adept at copypasting video links into VLC 12:47:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:51:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:52:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:01:53 seems like Latin B is mostly more IPA 13:04:44 I just got an internal error that's supposed to be really impossible 13:08:16 -!- augur has joined. 13:25:26 My spellchecker doesn't recognize the word "underdocumented" 13:25:32 Or spellchecker 13:25:34 Or doesn't 13:26:15 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:30:31 Taneb: it's probably set to some language other than English 13:30:47 It seems to recognize every word in this sentence 13:31:23 So I suspect it is set to English, just is missing a few words, and counts ' as a wordbreak 13:35:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:36:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:38:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:38:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:57:11 -!- nycs has joined. 13:59:45 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:09:40 Wisdom from the neural net: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_crap 14:29:10 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:31:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:32:20 ( filter [| fst == snd |] [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 14:32:21 [(42, 42)] : List (Integer, Integer) 14:34:00 ( filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 14:34:00 Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type: 14:34:00 Prelude.List.filter, Data.VectType.Vect.filter 14:34:15 ( List.filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 14:34:15 When checking an application of function Prelude.List.filter: 14:34:15 Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type: 14:34:15 Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>= 14:41:21 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:41:45 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:43:27 -!- nycs has joined. 14:44:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:45:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:48:45 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:50:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:50:48 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 14:52:11 -!- augur_ has joined. 15:04:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:06:59 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 15:07:17 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:07:35 ( filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 15:07:35 Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type: 15:07:35 Prelude.List.filter, Data.VectType.Vect.filter 15:07:42 ( List.filter (do !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 15:07:42 When checking an application of function Prelude.List.filter: 15:07:42 Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type: 15:07:42 Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>= 15:07:46 … 15:08:15 ( filter (do pure $ !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 15:08:15 [(42, 42)] : List (Integer, Integer) 15:08:26 Fixed. 15:11:32 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:12:35 i don't get why you are doing do in the first place 15:23:14 Hmm … 15:23:20 ( filter (pure $ !fst == 42) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 15:23:20 Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type: 15:23:20 Effects.>>=, BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, Prelude.Monad.>>= 15:23:39 myname: I need it to anchor the !. 15:23:59 why not (== 42).fst 15:24:07 oh, idris 15:24:08 Because I’m having fun. 15:24:09 damnit 15:24:18 it just looks too much like haskell 15:24:33 ( filter ((==42) . fst) [(1,2), (5,7), (42,42), (1000,10000)] 15:24:33 [(42, 42)] : List (Integer, Integer) 15:24:45 Works fine too. 15:25:05 but it doesn't use monads 15:25:17 that may be a downside, depending on what you like 15:25:26 myname: So anyway, with bang bindings the “do x” ≡ “x” rule no longer holds. 15:27:12 A nice example is that “forever (putStrLn !getLine)” is a yes program, and “forever (do putStrLn !getLine)” is a cat program. 15:27:13 -!- rg_ has joined. 15:29:15 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 15:32:53 ( [| sum / (cast . length) |] [1,4,6] 15:32:53 3.6666666666666665 : Double 15:34:31 wat 15:34:37 myname: I recently added the unwrapped reader monad to my BotPrelude, and am now having fun with ways to abuse it. 15:35:08 i don't really know idris :/ 15:35:41 [| |] are idiom brackets, which do an applicative application (they add pure and (<*>)). 15:36:28 So “[| sum / (cast . length) |]” desugars to “pure (/) <*> sum <*> (cast . length)”. 15:49:24 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:57:29 -!- _256Q has joined. 15:57:29 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 15:57:29 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:01:13 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:01:40 -!- lleu has joined. 16:01:40 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 16:01:40 -!- lleu has joined. 16:05:43 -!- GeekDude has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:06:29 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:11:39 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 16:16:05 -!- Wright has joined. 16:20:56 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:51:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:52:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:00:48 -!- puckipedia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:06:10 -!- puckipedia has joined. 17:09:20 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 17:18:21 -!- augur_ 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ZZZzzz…). 17:50:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:51:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:53:15 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 18:09:48 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:13:23 -!- augur has joined. 18:15:18 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 18:15:37 -!- MDude has joined. 18:16:37 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:25:13 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:25:18 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Changing host). 18:25:18 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 18:26:18 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:31:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:48:30 -!- Filystyn has joined. 18:48:46 HELO 18:48:51 helo i need help with brainfuk 18:48:54 anyone here ? 18:48:57 im asking! 18:49:02 Shoot 18:49:37 brainfuck on this site http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/impl/interp/i.html?b=&i=123&o= blocks in inf loop when i ,[>,-]<. 18:49:45 wth it happens? 18:49:51 it should not block 18:51:13 Why not 18:51:24 You always switch to the next cell 18:51:29 yes but 18:51:29 Which starts at 0 18:51:33 the loop should end if you get ASCII 1 as input 18:51:33 if cell is zero 18:51:34 And is then decremented 18:51:35 to 255 18:51:37 it should leave 18:51:38 because you do ,- just before the end of the loop 18:51:48 probably you haven't been giving any code 1 as input 18:51:48 but i need to 18:51:53 How do you type in ASCII 1 18:51:59 Slereah__: on most browsers, you can't 18:52:03 Exactly 18:52:03 yes there is nan code 18:52:21 stop ok i see you are going to help 18:52:21 For the record, the implementation is an EOF == 0 one. 18:52:22 im so happy 18:52:35 ok so basicly it should read 18:52:41 and if no read than - 18:52:50 if i - than zero stays zero ? 18:52:52 well, what are you trying to do at a larger level 18:52:56 or it goes up to 255 ? 18:53:13 i want to read chars untill i find char with value 10 18:53:16 than i stop 18:53:16 I'm finding it hard to help because you seem to have a mental model of what's going wrong, but I don't know what that model is 18:53:21 ah, OK 18:53:36 I look like an engineer 18:53:46 so you'd want something like ,----------[>,----------] for the read loop 18:53:53 to test for 10, you have to subtract 10 then test against 0 18:54:12 what do you want to do after you get your newline? (I'm assuming this is an implementation where newline = 10, it normally is) 18:54:28 basicly go back and read last char i think i see the problem now 18:54:48 so <++++++++ 18:54:50 10x+ 18:55:01 ok i seem to get what i was doing wrong 18:56:39 it worked guys 18:57:01 yay 18:57:15 i accualy had working code but i thought that if i decrement zero it stays zero so i did not make new line but simply assumed that at end of output it will stop 18:57:22 anyway big thx 18:58:41 decrementing zero gives you -1, which on many implementations is equivalent to 255 (implementations which work like that are called "8-bit wrapping") 18:59:04 but hardly any implementations adjust -1 to 0 19:13:27 -!- rg_ has joined. 19:26:14 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:29:55 The usual brainfucks don’t have any runtime errors to speak of, do they? 19:30:15 Melvar: < off the LHS of the tape is sometimes considered a runtime error 19:30:25 although in some implementations, it extends the tape to the left 19:30:30 ^bf < 19:30:45 ^bf ,[.,]!test 19:30:45 test 19:30:49 ^bf <,[.,]!test 19:30:49 test 19:30:51 hmm 19:30:54 Oh right, there’s ones with non-bidirectionally-infinite tapes. 19:31:08 !bf8 < 19:31:10 No output. 19:31:24 !bf8 <+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. 19:31:25 ​! 19:52:34 Why haven't I created that Haskell EDSL for brainfuck yet? 19:53:40 Maybe it's because I have lots of better things to do. 20:08:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:15:49 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:23:05 hehe. a free software source readme describes what you need to build from source. it says “a reasonable C compiler (gcc, Visual Studio, etc.)” 20:23:22 they apparently count Visual Studio as a reasonable C compiler. 20:23:31 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:23:45 I'd say “a reasonable C compiler (gcc, etc.) or Visual Studio 20:23:47 ” 20:23:53 -!- S1 has joined. 20:25:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:25:29 Implying 20:27:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:32:14 Wisdom from the neural net: 20:32:16 09:59:42: CYUL 231320Z 07006KT ESCABON SCT069 BKN022 B00/27 M19/M09 Q1000 RMK SC1SC0AC2 SCT038 BKN042 14/04 Q1005 RMK SCT000 M02/M00 Q1096 RMK BIN019 SCT000 03/03 Q1020 RMK R00 NOSIG 20:32:46 b_jonas: what do you find unreasonable about VS? 20:34:56 I tried using VS once and got it to go into some weird state where it was automatcially routing stdout to a file for no reason. 20:35:35 VS has so much persistent configuration, it makes configuring it very hard 20:35:53 I prefer the mechanism whereby you use command-line options every time (normally automated via shellscripts or makefiles) 20:39:51 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:41:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:43:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:01:30 -!- aloril has joined. 21:05:10 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:05:24 I would have prefer to write something like "a C compiler (known to work with: GCC, Visual Studio)" 21:06:48 "requires: an unreasonable C compiler (must put empty cartons back in the freezer)" 21:07:45 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:07:52 zzo38: yeah, that may be nicer 21:29:30 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:37:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:37:10 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: I started a joke, which started the whole world crying...). 21:39:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:44:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:48:14 -!- variable has joined. 21:52:12 damn I hate this. <-- clearly the only insurance worth having is one that insures you against not having the right insurances. 21:52:56 @tell mroman damn I hate this. <-- clearly the only insurance worth having is one that insures you against not having the right insurances. 21:52:56 Consider it noted. 21:53:18 like in this case, an insurance against swatting due to obnoxious idleness 21:55:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 21:56:13 ( [| sum / (cast . length) |] 21:56:14 \r => 21:56:14 prim__divFloat (Prelude.List.List instance of Prelude.Foldable.Foldable, method foldr (\meth => \meth => prim__addFloat meth meth) 0.0 r) 21:56:14 (prim__toFloatBigInt (toIntegerNat (length r))) : List Double -> Double 21:56:41 ( [| sum / (cast . length) |] [1,3,6,8] 21:56:42 4.5 : Double 21:57:39 toFloatBigInt. 21:57:54 Yeah … 21:58:07 The prims sometimes have ridiculous names. 21:58:45 Oh, it's like (toFloat)(BigInt). 21:58:49 oerjan: can i buy swatting insurance twhib 21:58:59 Not (something else)to(FloatBigInt). 21:59:39 Furthermore, only the float and string conversions are named like that. The ones among integertypes are {sext,zext,trunc}$typeA_$typeB . 22:00:30 But for float and string you have {to,from}{Float,Str}$othertype . 22:01:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:02:26 -!- Filystyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:02:29 This is related to the way they’re automatically generated; on the compiler-internal type there’s an algebraic data type representing these, and some constructors take IntTy or ArithTy arguments, and the float and string conversions are other constructors than the conversions among integers. 22:02:36 `le/rn twhib/the world holds its breath 22:02:38 Learned «twhib» 22:03:26 On the other hand, toIntegerNat is not a prim, and I can’t fathom the thought process that went into its name. 22:11:39 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:13:44 -!- boily has joined. 22:18:48 boilyh 22:19:20 shachaf: i don't know, i'm not in the insurance business 22:24:17 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:28:14 ICFP contest starts in 2.5 days 22:28:16 no 22:28:18 a bit more 22:28:22 in 2.6 days 22:30:38 b_jhellonas! 22:30:55 jello 22:45:23 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:03:19 `wisdom 23:03:20 pineapple/Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable. 23:03:31 `? chess 23:03:32 Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation. 23:03:50 I can't decide which one is my favourite. 23:05:38 `` sed -i 's/therefore//' wisdom/pineapple 23:05:40 No output. 23:06:20 shellochaf. 23:06:28 I think chess is better, don't you think so? 23:08:19 WHEREAS, pineapple is a hybrid species descended from multiple ancestors; WHEREAS, these ancestors include spinach and wild ivy; NOW, THEREFORE, pineapple is declared to be a class 6 vegetable. 23:08:37 boily: what do you think about diplomacy twhib 23:08:45 `? pineapple 23:08:46 Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable. 23:08:52 oerjan: oopse 23:09:07 `` sed -i 's/ / /' wisdom/pineapple # thoerjan 23:09:10 No output. 23:10:04 shachaf: you were saved from a swat only by my network disconnecting hth 23:10:40 oerjan: A swat for forgetting to remove a space? 23:10:53 i'm grumpy today hth 23:11:01 spot of the tyranny, governor? 23:18:33 what kind of diplomacy? and wherefore so much hate for the there therefore? 23:19:09 the game 23:19:30 and i don't know why oerjan is such a h8r hth 23:19:32 never played, definitely in an advantageous position on my gaming checklist. 23:19:43 * boily tries to ungrump oerjan 23:19:45 tyrannosaurus oerjan 23:19:57 must be windows 10 23:20:03 * boily applies ancient Chinese techniques on oerjan 23:20:12 *gasp*! he has updated? 23:20:36 i'm playing diplomacy online with some folks 23:20:38 i'm italy 23:20:44 any strategies? 23:20:48 eeeeh... 23:20:56 gghghghghbhg flblblblblblbl... 23:20:59 nope. 23:21:01 sorry. 23:32:11 shachaf: betray everyone hth 23:34:45 boily: actually, i don't see anything that's significantly more broken, once i got rid of that Edge thing. and it starts up much faster after hibernation. 23:35:31 oh and i had to redownload a touchpad driver 23:35:43 that was annoying, but it was annoying before anyway 23:35:52 spot of the hibernation, governor? 23:35:55 I never suspend-to-disk. 23:36:00 with some luck it will now work properly. 23:36:02 I have no idea if it works. 23:36:19 shachaf: i do it all the time. also _ordinary_ reboot definitely got a bit slower now. 23:36:43 (er my 2nd last comment was about the touchpad driver) 23:37:25 i've had no problems with hibernation itself in a long time. maybe not since my previous laptop. 23:37:32 You redownload your touchpad driver all the time? 23:37:54 no, but it had a tendency of dying on unsuspending 23:38:17 hm i guess that technically was a hibernation problem 23:38:49 it got less annoying when i found out how to reset it without rebooting. 23:40:00 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:40:01 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:42:36 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:59:07 -!- idris-bot has joined. 2015-08-05: 00:08:02 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:25:55 -!- Aearnus has joined. 00:26:31 Why haven't I created that Haskell EDSL for brainfuck yet? <-- because BF syntax and haskell syntax aren't very compatible hth 00:27:58 i don't think e.g. [>,] will ever parse as haskell 00:28:10 loop (right `then` input) 00:28:19 hth 00:28:26 THAT'S CHEATING 00:29:15 also that should clearly be loop $ do right; input 00:30:13 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:31:53 hiya GeekDude 00:31:57 hi 00:35:05 oerjan: why make it a monad if every action returns () twhib 00:36:09 `? twhib 00:36:10 the world holds its breath 00:36:59 hm i think ` just became a dead key in putty. let me see if that means they've started working in google... 00:37:14 yes! 00:40:44 hm it's possible gvim also treats ` more sanely now 00:41:40 shachaf: does *ib mean what i suspect it means twhib 00:42:03 what do you suspect it means twhib 00:42:14 that would be telling tdnhib 00:42:52 when you say it it means just what you want it to mean hth 00:43:04 thxib 00:43:38 "i believe"? 00:43:39 * oerjan actually has two guesses but this one is funnier 00:43:47 ...that was a third 00:43:52 I had a meaning for it earlier but I forgot. 00:44:10 my boring guess was "i bet" 00:44:27 correct 00:44:58 FUD -> 00:47:10 goodeven 00:48:42 I have 1151 characters 00:54:20 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:55:35 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:56:23 helloren. 00:59:54 goddeven 01:02:36 -!- Aearnus has quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in). 01:04:20 hm i wonder if gamma got reset to the wrong value 01:07:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:07:59 gamma? 01:08:10 for my screen, when updating to windows 10 01:08:25 WHYYYYYY 01:08:29 it was set back to 1.0, which is ridiculously dark 01:08:53 if i could remember what value i put it at last time... 01:09:03 no, why did you upgrade, didn't you read in the Register about how shit it is? 01:10:00 nope, i'm pretty sure uk newspapers are no authority on shit 01:10:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OBSERVATORY CHICKEN). 01:11:21 why is it shit btw, it is quite possible i disabled a lot of those things 01:11:59 It collects all your private data and sends it to the cloud 01:12:13 Everything does that these days. 01:12:53 -!- lemurian has joined. 01:13:19 oren: sounds like most of the toggles i changed (i changed _all_ the toggles in the install setup) 01:13:42 Oh. then you just have to worry about the next update changing them back 01:13:52 huh 01:14:56 I recently bought a XP disk 01:15:55 I'm gonna use it on my new laptop when I buy one 01:15:59 i found the log discussion from last time i looked at the gamma, let's see if i was wise enough to mention the final settings 01:16:24 so I can dual boot Debian and Windows XP 01:16:47 nope, i guess i should try the calibration site linked 01:17:40 I have some 32-bit games that don't work in Win7 01:18:18 -!- augur has joined. 01:18:40 Is it possible to tri-boot Win7, XP and Debian? 01:18:41 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:19:06 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:22:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:24:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:39:21 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skrundz * New user account 01:45:24 I was going to post a long message on facebook, until I realized I should put it on my website instead 01:50:35 * oerjan concludes with R:1.3, G:1.3, B:1.2 01:50:46 looks better, anyway 01:51:07 You don't need to make it a monad if every action returns () just make a monoid instead. If you do need a monad you can then use it with a writer monad, to make the monad. 01:52:16 god my eyes 01:52:39 (that test requires turning off the lights) 01:53:50 the problem with a laptop monitor is that it doesn't have half the settings that test suggests adjusting, and some of those it does have are software fakes. but at least it has gamma settings. 01:54:41 istr i concluded the same last time, and adjusted only the gamma. that sharpness thing looked horribly off though, but i see no setting for it. 01:55:01 I have never adjusted the gamma on anything 01:55:31 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:55:40 oren: then you may or may not be getting a lousy view 01:56:02 i adjusted it (both times) because dark pictures look too dark otherwise 01:56:32 How far away should I be from the screen to adjutst it with these patterns 01:58:09 oh. it probably says somewhere, i didn't pay that much attention this time 01:58:33 it's not like the settings menu is tremendously accurate 01:58:37 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:58:48 fuck now everything is almost white 01:59:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:59:28 i guess something went wrong then 02:00:08 oh btw i used the patterns on http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php 02:00:25 i noticed that windows has some patterns itself 02:00:37 something went worng alright. I'm putting it bakc the way it was. I can see dark images by tliting the screen anyway. 02:00:46 heh 02:01:13 you're supposed to do the previous tests first, i sort of ended up ignoring them 02:01:43 (i have no real contrast setting) 02:02:37 Looks like the defaults settings were basically perfect 02:03:16 heh 02:03:43 i guess if you have a monitor which actually _supports_ the standards, it would do that... 02:05:27 for me it really depends on the vertical angle 02:05:30 this is a laptop monitor from 2006. I dunno 02:05:31 btw my gamma adjustment was just with 2-3 points from the default. 02:05:31 I can make it have any value I want 02:05:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 02:06:15 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 02:06:19 oren: that's about as old as that site is... 02:06:39 I want to make unsorting algorithms... 02:06:40 presumably physics hasn't changed much in that time. 02:07:26 -!- lemurian has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:07:29 `` yes | nl | head -10 | shuf 02:07:30 ​ 9y \ 4y \ 7y \ 6y \ 1y \ 10y \ 2y \ 8y \ 5y \ 3y 02:07:51 hppavilion[1]: aka shuffle hth 02:08:22 *by 02:09:50 oerjan: Yes. Shuffle, but we care about time complexity 02:09:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:10:30 hppavilion[1]: fisher-yates is O(n) hth 02:13:47 right. but can we reduce time complexity in line with reducing possible permutions? 02:15:26 not by more than a small constant 02:15:46 or wait 02:15:58 you mean by making it _not_ a perfect shuffle? 02:19:20 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:19:43 -!- Wright has joined. 02:20:30 Pretty much 02:20:34 Then again 02:20:53 That'd just be a sorting algorithm with a non-traditional issorted() 02:23:43 what about making n^0.75 swaps? 02:26:52 Perl 6 keeps putting me in mind of lenses, though it's missing things 02:27:06 At least I think it's missing things, I feel not well-versed in lenses to say for sure 02:27:18 More that... it allows for similar expressivity 02:29:02 or n^(some constant near 1) anyway 02:31:39 suppose you have some ζ near 1. perform fisher-yates shuffle but skip some steps so that you only perform N^ζ swaps. For example, skip at 1/(N-N^ζ) intervals. 02:32:19 that gives you a continuous range of worse and worse shuffles 02:42:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:43:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:54:34 An amusing consequence of O notation 02:56:08 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 02:56:13 the algorithm, 'skip n random swaps from fisher-yates shuffle' seems to have worse time complexity than fisher yates itself. 02:56:43 an amusing consequence of the way time complexity is defined rather 02:58:20 The DM has told me that I am the only person he knows who will win the Dungeons&Dragons game by administrative chaos. 02:59:29 administrative chaos ッテ ナニ? 03:16:53 I am not exactly sure really how he means, but it may be explained by examples, perhaps. It does seem to me, that is how you win the war, you win the war by administrative chaos; fighting might not help so much. 03:21:27 As they say, the pen is mightier than the sword. 03:22:38 1197 characters. All Latin-B, Number Forms. 03:23:41 zzo38: I see. that's roleplaying! 03:32:44 what maniacs go around putting cedillas on E's?! 03:33:00 I don't know? Maybe it depend what language you are writing 03:33:15 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 03:50:35 [wiki] [[Stream]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43680&oldid=43597 * Hppavilion1 * (+0) /* Nonstandard Streams */ Corrected "roll" to "role" 03:52:11 I still think "stdyay" should be a standard stream 03:52:20 And maybe "stdaids" 03:52:21 :P 03:54:08 oren: poles hthib 03:54:10 1249 03:54:38 (it's nasalized) 03:54:43 oerjan: that figures. 03:55:44 based on the names of poles I know, they stick random shit on all their letters 03:56:18 [wiki] [[Stream]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43681&oldid=43680 * Hppavilion1 * (+102) /* #Esoteric Extended Standard Streams */ Clarified STDYAYIN usages 03:56:27 has zzo38 been watching Brazil? 03:59:12 Brazil? I don't live at Brazil. 03:59:16 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:00:06 oerjan: what's the secret meaning twhib 04:00:51 it might help in norway too 04:01:04 I wonder if it's possible to change my legal name to a Zalgo version of itself 04:01:36 I'm not sure that "zalgo" thing has a fixed point. 04:04:56 the fixed point is when all the universe has been absorbed into it hth 04:05:42 or converted to it 04:06:19 what does ib stand for 04:10:17 [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43682&oldid=40286 * Quintopia * (+314) 04:11:04 [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43683&oldid=43682 * Quintopia * (+38) /* Cleanup */ 04:11:20 [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43684&oldid=43683 * Quintopia * (+2) /* BF Constants Cleanup */ 04:13:00 -!- Aearnus|IRCCloud has changed nick to Aearnus_. 04:13:53 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43685&oldid=43678 * Quintopia * (-59) Rdebath finished this task 04:16:29 [wiki] [[Unlambda]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43686&oldid=41015 * Esowiki201529A * (+70) /* Palindromes */ 04:23:41 I now cover a continuous range from U+A0 to U+2AF 04:27:25 shachaf: hint: fortune cookies 04:27:33 oh 04:27:55 hmph 04:27:56 -!- Aearnus has joined. 04:28:36 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:29:36 ȠȡȢȣȤȥȦȧȨȩȪȫȬȭȮȯ 04:29:37 ȰȱȲȳȴȵȶȷȸȹȺȻȼȽȾȿ 04:29:37 ɀɁɂɃɄɅɆɇɈɉɊɋɌɍɎɏ 04:38:33 Superosity's breaking the fourth wall 04:38:35 (in 2014) 04:44:37 But did they manage to break the fifth and sixth wall yet? 04:53:37 `unicode 🐉🐲 04:53:39 U+1F409 DRAGON \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 89 UTF-16BE: d83ddc09 Decimal: 🐉 \ 🐉 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F432 DRAGON FACE \ UTF-8: f0 9f 90 b2 UTF-16BE: d83ddc32 Decimal: 🐲 \ 🐲 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 04:58:06 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:00:09 What are your suggestions/complaints/questions about my "playmod" program (and my other programs)? 05:03:46 how to defeat caching? 05:04:00 What are you trying to defeat the caching of? 05:05:39 fonts 05:05:53 clearing my cache didn't work 05:06:11 so it is caching somewhere between me and the werver 05:06:17 *server 05:06:32 Hmm what if I rename the file 05:07:13 zzo38: What is your "playmod" program? 05:07:28 Heh that worked 05:07:59 It is a program to play MOD/S3M/IT/XM and many other formats, taking the music file from stdin and write raw audio data to stdout. 05:08:22 -!- shachaf has set topic: The channel where "is not a legitimate question" is not a legitimate sentence fragment | Sir Fungellot does not fnord. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 05:10:03 zzo38: raw audio data in what format? 05:10:37 You can specify mono or stereo, and you can specify 11025 Hz or 22050 Hz or 44100 Hz, and you can specify unsigned 8-bits or signed 16-bits or signed 32-bits. 05:11:17 (The output may be infinite, so you might have to interrupt it) 05:12:53 How do you interrupt it? 05:14:28 You can push ^C to interrupt it like you can interrupt other program, although depending what you are sending the output to you might also use SIGPIPE 05:14:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 05:14:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:14:55 (And you can also push ^Z to pause; these are same like any other programs.) 05:14:55 Will that always end it at a proper point? 05:15:47 No, it is not guaranteed. You can turn off looping though, so that it will not be infinite; still the point it ends might not necessarily be the proper point (it depends what music file you are trying to play). 05:16:05 But will it always stop correctly? 05:16:21 Maybe with raw audio it's OK. 05:16:35 Yes, it will always stop correctly. 05:17:13 It won't stop in the middle of a 16-bit or 32-bit number being output. 05:23:42 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel where "The channel where is surrounding its own quotation" is surrounding its own quotation | Sir Fungellot does not fnord. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/. 05:37:21 When TeX displays "1507 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+50000", why is it "15000+50000"; what is the significance of like this with the plus sign? 05:38:44 It is not a standard feature of TeX. 05:49:26 I like the Athena scroll bars, do you like that? 05:57:45 `danddreclist 65 05:57:46 danddreclist 65: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 06:01:17 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:40 -!- lleu has joined. 06:01:40 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 06:01:40 -!- lleu has joined. 06:04:53 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:16:59 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:17:19 There wouldn't happen to be a channel about language design that isn't necessarily esoteric, is there? 06:26:13 what a silly idea. i remember someone mentioning #osdev which is about os'es... 06:27:34 * oerjan recalls lambda the ultimate but that's not irc/chat 06:31:44 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43687&oldid=43685 * Rdebath * (+1839) Now it's finished, probably. Brute forced to 16 instructions, most of the way through 17 and 100000 steps. 1000000 steps is running, nothing for this page yet. 06:31:54 [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43688&oldid=43684 * Rdebath * (+780) /* BF Constants Cleanup */ 06:44:52 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43689&oldid=43343 * Rdebath * (+609350) Please don't break ... 06:56:32 did it break, i'm scared to check 06:57:50 Do I understand it right that the Apache Portable Runtime at http://apr.apache.org/ is a sort of portable basic operations library similar to libglib, and that it's broken to two packages in such a way that apr contains the algorithm stuff and apr-util contains the system-dependent stuff? 06:58:30 Except it seems to be a bit newer in the design than glib. 06:59:39 also, it uses longer prefixes for its symbols, apr_* and APR_* instead of g* and G* 07:13:39 -!- llue has joined. 07:13:45 [wiki] [[Underload/Numbers]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43690&oldid=43028 * Esowiki201529A * (+46) 07:14:21 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:18:20 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43691&oldid=43689 * Rdebath * (+2689) And the edit ? That works too ?!?!? 07:22:43 wow, I think I just got spam in Vietnamese language, for possibly the first time 07:31:20 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:05:25 oerjan: are you in the mood for a spot of type trickery 08:05:58 the timing is somewhat atrocious 08:07:13 ok 08:09:40 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has joined. 08:09:42 Congratulations on covering that range, oren! 08:09:47 well, i'll just give you the idea 08:09:51 no! 08:10:01 hppavilion[1]_: There's a #proglangdesign with 37 people on it. 08:10:10 Yes 08:10:11 half the point is that if i start thinking about it, i might not get to sleep 08:10:12 I found that 08:10:14 "Programming Language Design - discussing programming languages designs, especially new/radical ideas and new/lesser known languages. Old topics: type systems, memory management, parallel programming, concurrency, and implementation issues. Discussed: Python, Scala, Clojure, F#, Haskell/Clean/CAL, Go, Rust, or " 08:10:19 You'll notice that I'm one of those 37 08:10:26 I won't, because I'm not. 08:10:29 I just see the number. 08:10:35 Oh 08:10:46 (the other half is that this is one of those days where i'm having trouble deciding whether i _should_ try to sleep soon) 08:10:58 Switching over to my other tab 08:11:05 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has quit (Client Quit). 08:11:09 > run $ plus minus minus plus 08:11:10 "+--+" 08:12:00 > run $ L.loop (plus minus plus) minus 08:12:02 "[+-+]-" 08:12:03 that sort of thing 08:12:23 trying to figure out how to make loops work (they don't really work yet) 08:12:31 ideally you could use [] syntax, maybe with OverloadedLists or something 08:12:58 oerjan: by the way, i'm currently trying to decide whether to get to sleep, so something is way off in your time zone 08:13:05 maybe it's your sleeping schedule hth 08:13:14 go to sleep hthib 08:13:33 ib? 08:13:52 International Baccalaureate® 08:13:58 shachaf: um my sleeping schedule is off 90% of the time 08:14:15 good, so you can figure out this haskell thing 08:14:52 also, i've lately been annoyed by people trying to make decisions for me. 08:15:03 sorry :'( 08:16:45 anyway this is pertaining to a discussion earlier today 08:17:07 Or was it yesterday? 08:19:23 -!- Wright has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:29:01 fnerd. 08:29:06 @messages-loud 08:29:06 oerjan said 10h 36m 10s ago: damn I hate this. <-- clearly the only insurance worth having is one that insures you against not having the right insurances. 08:29:17 oerjan: Absolutely. 08:29:41 yay, agreement 08:29:50 that'd be nice, because if it wouldn't pay you out, it has to pay you out 08:30:07 oerjan: oh, are you in a coöperative mood 08:30:15 in the mood for a hug, perhaps 08:30:17 FNORD! 08:30:53 were there ever #esoteric channel meetings? 08:30:54 yes, very fnordic of you 08:31:17 i think shachaf has met a few people from here 08:31:38 Let's have a meeting right now. 08:31:49 point of order: too many meetings 08:31:55 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:58 1, 2 many 08:32:17 spot of the too many meetings, governor? 08:32:37 the meeting has been adjourned 08:33:21 shachaf, you forgot Any Other Business! 08:33:33 Taneb: Oops. You'd better call another meeting. 08:33:44 I'm not on the committee 08:33:55 which means you're on the mmittee 08:34:02 which is just what you need for a mmitteeng 08:34:37 oerjan: I don't even remember who's from here, but there have been a few. 08:34:56 Sometimes people end up around here. 08:35:00 Probably because the bay area is the best area. 08:35:20 I have not anyone who was in this channel before I met them 08:35:20 i think it might have the greatest concentration? 08:38:35 Taneb: what did you think of my haskell puzzle 08:38:44 Which Haskell puzzle 08:38:55 making loops work in the haskell bf dsl 08:39:04 maybe with overloaded lists or just with a function called loop 08:39:22 > run $ plus minus minus plus plus -- magic 08:39:24 "+--++" 08:43:51 @type (--) 08:43:52 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 08:43:55 hm 08:44:02 @type plus 08:44:02 that's a comment 08:44:04 B a => a 08:44:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:44:17 oh 08:44:17 right 08:44:18 oerjan: also pikhq and i were independently invited to the same event hth 08:44:20 :D 08:44:24 haven't done Haskell in a while 08:44:35 shachaf: synchronicity! 08:44:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:45:20 did any of you know what the other looked like 08:45:59 well, there's a picture of me on my stackoverflow page hth 08:46:23 i'm sure that helped 08:48:16 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:48:26 wait is this bf thing your type question 08:48:55 ARGH HE GOT ME 08:49:12 MWAHAHAHAHA 08:49:54 this weather forecast is too rainy 08:51:01 what was wrong with your L.loop 08:51:07 > run $ L.loop [] 08:51:09 Couldn't match expected type ‘b0 -> BF’ with actual type ‘[t0]’ 08:51:09 In the first argument of ‘L.loop’, namely ‘[]’ 08:51:09 In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘L.loop []’ 08:51:21 > run $ L.loop plus 08:51:22 "[+]" 08:51:29 > run $ plus L.loop plus 08:51:30 Couldn't match type ‘(BF -> BF) -> BF -> c0’ with ‘BF’ 08:51:31 In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘plus L.loop plus’ 08:51:31 In the expression: run $ plus L.loop plus 08:51:34 ic 08:51:43 :t plus 08:51:44 B a => a 08:51:53 :k B 08:51:54 * -> Constraint 08:52:00 :t run 08:52:01 (BF -> BF) -> String 08:53:12 :t L.loop 08:53:13 (B c, B b) => (b -> BF) -> BF -> c 08:53:49 oh ic 08:54:11 apparently the forecast is not only rainy but icy 08:54:29 what is this B thing 08:54:39 a type class 08:54:53 i cannot understand that without its methods 08:55:15 class B a where { tob :: BF -> a; frb :: a -> BF } 08:55:39 look this solution is suboptimal, that's why i was hoping you'd invent something better 08:55:50 right, right 08:56:22 by the way an earlier version sort of worked without run, but you had to annotate it :: String, and it didn't work as well in other ways 08:56:56 also this BF is unnecessary, you can just use String 08:57:19 i was trying to make something work with lists so i didn't want something that overlapped with [a] but that didn't work anyway 08:58:19 you might go with TeX-style "run $ plus (loop plus minus plus) minus" if you can make it work 08:58:30 anyway i was planning to wake up in ~6 hours 08:58:37 oh, i was thinking that might be easier 08:58:59 in fact, why isn't that already working? 08:59:18 > run $ plus (L.loop plus minus plus) minus 08:59:19 "+[+]-+-" 08:59:29 :t tob :: BF -> (BF -> BF) 08:59:30 BF -> BF -> BF 08:59:54 ic 09:00:24 :t L.loop plus 09:00:25 B c => BF -> c 09:00:34 you can probably make something work 09:00:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:01:30 :t toB . ($) 09:01:32 Not in scope: ‘toB’ 09:01:32 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:01:32 ‘tob’ (line 164), ‘to’ (imported from Control.Lens) 09:01:37 :t tob . ($) 09:01:38 Couldn't match type ‘a -> b’ with ‘BF’ 09:01:38 Expected type: (a -> b) -> BF 09:01:38 Actual type: (a -> b) -> a -> b 09:03:27 :t toB `asTypeOf` \_ _ -> _ 09:03:28 Not in scope: ‘toB’ 09:03:28 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:03:28 ‘tob’ (line 164), ‘to’ (imported from Control.Lens) 09:03:35 :t tob `asTypeOf` \_ _ -> _ 09:03:36 Found hole ‘_’ with type: t1 09:03:36 Where: ‘t1’ is a rigid type variable bound by 09:03:36 the inferred type of it :: BF -> t -> t1 at Top level 09:03:42 argh 09:03:48 :t tob `asTypeOf` \_ _ -> undefined 09:03:49 B t => BF -> BF -> t 09:05:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:07:43 :t L.loop 09:07:44 (B c, B b) => (b -> BF) -> BF -> c 09:08:47 ssh whoami.filippo.io <- OHSHIT 09:09:10 -!- quietello has joined. 09:11:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZORNOT). 09:14:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:20:55 shachaf, I think I have it 09:21:02 No wait 09:21:05 I'm not testing it right 10:09:16 -!- Aearnus has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:19:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:20:37 @tell shachaf I sense that all the suggested syntaxes have some trouble with programs like [[]+] 10:20:37 Consider it noted. 10:20:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 10:37:11 -!- quan has joined. 10:38:00 -!- quan has quit (Client Quit). 10:42:49 Wasn't there a google search prefix that shows you sites that link to another one? 10:44:12 link:wikipedia.org yields NO search results 10:44:15 that's suspicious 10:44:55 must be broken this feature 10:59:39 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:01:03 https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2466433?hl=en claims it still exists, but it looks a bit dubious. "link:youtube.com" finds, like, 7k results. 11:02:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 11:02:24 It does still show some results for some sites 11:02:42 however it shows none for some sites that clearly should have links to them 11:03:20 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:05:07 well I said "This article was not helpful." :) 11:05:18 link: is broken 11:07:28 J_A_Work: Apartment hunting sucks. 11:07:29 :D 11:10:26 mroman: Yes it does, but how did you know I’m looking for an apartment? XD 11:10:35 also vertical center div should totally be possible 11:10:41 it was possible back in the ugly css days 11:10:48 and now you can even do calculations 11:10:57 J_A_Work: I'm a stalker. 11:10:59 I stalk people 11:11:06 I see … <.< 11:11:21 No, I was doing some site analyzes 11:11:30 and I stumbled upon your tweet about output.html 11:11:37 and then I went on reading your twitter feed 11:11:44 *analysis 11:11:52 Hah hah. 11:12:17 I don’t even think I remember that tweet. I grumble a lot about web dev when I’m doing it (which somehow seems to be always) 11:14:41 well 11:14:48 I SHOULD NOT have followed that patent link 11:16:44 Heh. Dick wraps? 11:17:20 Yeh 11:17:43 Why would you want to do that? 11:17:49 mroman: You can do a search for "info:wikipedia.org", and then there's a "find web pages that link to wikipedia.org" link, which uses a search term with some hash -- link:FtttyIEMjRYJ:https://www.wikipedia.org/ for me -- but it also doesn't work any better (no matches). 11:21:30 hm 11:26:24 hm 11:26:29 border-radius with dashed border looks weird 11:26:34 because around the border it's not dashed 11:30:18 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:31:37 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 11:34:37 -!- newsham has joined. 11:39:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:49:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:50:05 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:50:46 -!- augur has joined. 11:51:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:57:07 fungot: You can do a search for "info:wikipedia.org", and then there's a "find web pages that link to wikipedia.org" link, which uses a search term with some hash -- link:FtttyIEMjRYJ:https://www.wikipedia.org/ for me -- but it also doesn't work any better (no matches). 11:57:17 fungot? 12:00:28 It's not here. 12:01:05 goddamnit fungot stop leaving this channel 12:02:42 fungot, I summon thee 12:18:40 http://jacquesmattheij.com/the-fastest-blog-in-the-world 12:18:43 mine loads faster :D 12:18:45 suck it 12:21:02 mroman, is your blog accessible by gopher 12:22:00 probably not 12:22:10 it's not even accesible by https I think 12:22:23 yeah no 12:22:32 hoster doesn't support it 12:22:41 It's a 1CHF a month hoster 12:22:42 so... 12:22:49 Can't expect much. 12:23:27 presumingly mathjax and googlefonts are the largest part of it 12:23:33 so much to learn... 12:24:25 if you need css for different screens 12:24:28 you're doing something wrong. 12:25:04 If you need a mobile version of your site you're doing something wrong 12:26:00 Where is your blog? 12:27:23 http://mroman.ch 12:40:37 I like simple, clean designs ;) 12:40:42 I don't really like The Burlesque Page 12:40:50 but I made it like that so it looks like other fancy crappy sites ;) 12:40:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:41:09 I should start a blog 12:41:25 Should I follow mroman's URL scheme and buy taneb.uk? 12:41:48 Buy taneb.co.uk, for your corporate personality. 12:42:51 I've also put disqus behind this click-protection 12:42:54 Can you even get a taneb.uk, or does it have to be taneb.me.uk or some-such? 12:43:01 fizzie, you can get taneb.uk 12:43:03 so that no data is transfered to/from disqus for users just visiting the page 12:43:08 Oh, fungot. 12:43:20 fungot.gov 12:43:22 I have the almost entirely unused haskellhero.uk, on the suggestion of a friend 12:43:33 you own haskellhero.uk? 12:43:38 Yes 12:43:47 -!- fungot has joined. 12:43:53 so you're real name is Nathan 12:43:56 *your 12:44:13 Yes 12:44:24 mroman, it's in my whois information on IRC 12:44:25 nice colors :D 12:44:31 Real name: Nathan van Doorn 12:44:41 It's on my article on the wiki! 12:44:48 Taneb: You should somehow get the kerning trick in the IRC whois too. 12:44:54 :D 12:45:02 my username IS my real name 12:45:11 Now, should I buy Taneb.me 12:45:34 get .be 12:45:40 it's cheaper 12:45:48 I am not... belorussian? 12:45:59 belgian. 12:46:14 I have orenwatson.be and I'm canadian 12:46:24 Taneb: that reminds me, some movie I saw recently had a villain called van Doom, made me think of you 12:46:32 olsner, Fantastic Four? 12:46:45 my real name is partially my username 12:47:00 Taneb: hmm, I think so, yes 12:47:15 and my user is partially a real person 12:51:41 Huh. Starting from September 5th, 2016, anyone can apply for a .fi domain, even non-Finnish people. 12:52:54 quick. grab sci.fi! 12:53:07 That's already taken. 12:53:26 grab zzie.fi? 12:53:29 I used to have a sci.fi address, though; they were my ISP. 12:53:36 I thought about zzie.fi when getting my .fi. 12:54:04 grab fizz.ie 12:54:09 Anyway, it used to be so that you dealt directly with the Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority, and they had age and locality rules, but they're moving to the "we only handle the registry, and you deal with a random shady registrar" model. 12:54:20 the ie stands for internet explorer 12:54:25 because you explore the internet 12:55:57 I wonder if they're opening up .ax too. 12:56:15 Currently it's been even more strict than .fi, which isn't a surprise. 12:56:42 (It's a TLD for the Åland Islands.) 12:58:21 fizzie: What happens to old registrations? 12:58:33 fizzie: is it more strict than .hu used to be before it got opened? 12:58:38 Deewiant: You can't renew after that date except via a registrar ("välittäjä"). 12:58:53 'Åland' looks ridiculous with my font 12:59:02 it squashes the A down to make room for the circle 12:59:16 oren: what's the status of your font? 12:59:24 fizzie: And currently one can only register for a year at a time, I guess? 12:59:55 "Saunalahti claims that according to the "law," I have to live here for 3 years to get a 4G subscription, or else pay a 300€ deposit" 12:59:59 really? 13:00:14 Deewiant: Maybe? I don't know if they've changed that; you used to be able to register for up to five, I think. 13:00:27 mroman, you might leave the country with all the data if they didn't, after all 13:01:20 what data? 13:01:34 fizzie: Right, it does say 5 years. So one could postpone the registrar-obtaining for that long if one registers on September 4th. 13:02:29 I wonder if you can renew whenever, or only when you're close to expiring. My current expiration date seems to be March 10, 2017. 13:03:19 "Fi-verkkotunnuksen voi uusia aikaisintaan kuusi kuukautta ennen voimassaoloajan päättymistä." 13:04:17 So I can't do it until... September 10th, 2016? That's some good timing right there. 13:13:07 Taneb: you could blog about Haskell stuff . 13:13:22 mroman, that was the intention with haskellhero 13:13:28 Just never actually bothered 13:14:07 maybe I'll eventually put some actual writing on my website (prose, rather than data). right now I can't be bothered 13:14:17 That's not very hero-like :( 13:15:48 b_jonas: I have all the Latin-1 -A -B, and all IPA now 13:15:50 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:16:07 the one on my website has 1200 chars roughtly 13:16:16 I am adding more in the editor 13:16:39 so. removed google fonts. 13:16:45 Don't want google tracking my visitors 13:16:52 now the thing left is mathjax 13:17:17 -!- SopaXT2 has joined. 13:17:36 -!- SopaXT2 has changed nick to SopaXorzTaker. 13:17:57 but I can't host mathjax myself 13:17:59 mathjax is 30MB 13:18:05 I don't have a lot of webspace 13:19:33 generate the images once then host them 13:20:19 how many browsers support mathml? 13:21:42 I might just use MathML 13:22:03 Firefox apparently has the most complete support 13:23:09 Ok, time for me to go to work. 13:23:53 mroman, Chrome does not, apparently 13:24:29 I like mathjax, but I just pulled it from their CDN. It's not like my website has users to worry about. 13:25:47 mroman, I've gone off the colour scheme for my esolangs page 13:26:47 it's just that if you embed someone's javascript you leak the whole webpage content to them 13:27:43 Google already knows what your webpage looks like, anyway 13:27:57 yeah 13:28:08 it's no problem unless you're a site that has a protected area 13:28:11 like social medias 13:28:15 *your 13:28:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:28:19 ow no 13:28:25 *your site has a protected area 13:28:44 I know a place, a place named fungot 13:28:45 Jafet: i was thinking more the shirt depicted in the image file. it cheats.): resemblance of an application of something i wrote for making python-style generators. i needed the case fan was even the wrong size, they color 13:29:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:29:46 Well, you do also leak knowledge of who's visiting your site. 13:29:46 I don't remember mathjax being 30MB, but if it's that large then using the CDN is a good idea (since people will only need to download it once). 13:30:22 Jafet: It's mostly the images. 13:30:46 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:30:51 the latest distribution zip is +30MB 13:31:15 fizzie: True @leak who visits 13:31:24 that is, if you have not disabled referrers 13:31:27 I have disabled them. 13:31:34 hm. 13:31:35 There's a hash-based URI scheme proposal, but it's not really implemented by anyone, I think. 13:31:38 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6920 13:31:47 although the js could send information back as well 13:31:57 basically it's risky to embed third-party javascript 13:32:07 *very* risky 13:33:19 Don't some webpages do that to protect against csrf 13:33:26 they generate links on the fly with one-time identifiers 13:33:30 and then map it internally 13:33:33 Yes, but that's not what that is. 13:36:02 The RFC is pretty vague, but one thing it's been suggested to be used for is references to content that never changes. 13:38:03 "never" is such a strong word 13:38:11 what content on the internet literally never changes? 13:38:21 Well, I mean, if it's identified by a hash, it can't change. 13:38:45 You can of course change the place linking to it to point at something else. 13:38:54 If everyone referred to, say, JQuery version X as /.well-known/ni/sha-256/[hash], then browsers could in theory avoid retrieving it without having to pull it from some third-party place. 13:39:15 true 13:39:20 browsers could cache it then locally 13:39:42 There was some talk of this on the Chrome mailing lists, but the general response was kind of negative. 13:40:36 hm 13:40:42 could you embed cache infos into the url? 13:40:45 or url-scheme 13:40:54 cache://example.com/documentThatNeverChanges 13:42:00 instead of using the cache http means 13:42:48 no that'd be stupid :( 13:43:27 There's an alternative proposal for addressing just the "you never know what the CDN will return" case, which would allow for something like and then the browser would only run it if the hash matches. 13:43:34 https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/subresourceintegrity/ 13:43:50 oh 13:43:55 that's definitely a nice thing to have 13:44:15 same thing for images or the like 13:44:22 actually every external resource should have that 13:44:56 but this is probably tricky 13:45:04 since js usually injects dependencies 13:45:13 and loads further js 13:45:58 Presumably, you would audit that version of the script completely before using it 13:46:06 `? vectror 13:46:11 um 13:46:13 HackEgo? 13:46:19 vectror? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:46:21 is everybot on vacation? 13:46:25 oh, he's just slow 13:46:28 `? vector 13:46:30 vector? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:46:41 Jafet: still, javascript can load further resources as it pleases 13:46:54 Well, you'd verify that the script has integrity="..." checks on all dependencies it pulls in, of course. 13:47:35 you'd have to :) 13:47:39 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:47:49 but you wouldn't do that 13:48:18 too much effort 13:48:19 Or possibly you'd just be pragmatic and say "this is probably all good this time, I just don't want it to change", the way people do with SSH keys. 13:48:31 s/keys/host fingerprints/ whatever. 13:49:38 mroman: yes, you'd audit those too. 13:50:51 I guess you'd need the hashed-URI thing to load those reliably 13:50:58 but it'd be a nice feature still. 13:52:22 5.3 Cross-origin data leakage 13:52:25 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:53:11 -!- rodgort has joined. 13:54:35 Everything always has corner cases like that. :/ 13:54:35 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:55:54 There was the BREACH thing about just compressing with gzip, I think that was pretty nasty. 13:56:02 http://breachattack.com/resources/BREACH%20-%20SSL,%20gone%20in%2030%20seconds.pdf 14:01:15 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:13:01 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 14:21:01 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:28:57 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 14:28:59 oh great. code has a reformatting change that affects every function, so I can't just diff to see the real changes. 14:29:58 I have to do a trickier diffing procedure 14:30:12 oh great, it doesn't actually affect _every_ function 14:30:15 good 14:42:24 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 14:42:41 -!- lleu has joined. 14:48:16 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:50:49 -!- augur has joined. 14:52:10 -!- atrapado has joined. 14:58:44 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 14:59:42 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:04:53 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:04:59 -!- villasukka has joined. 15:17:29 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 15:33:04 You can make the kind of URI scheme that you can make integrity:-: 15:34:02 Also the user should be allowed to add their own integrity checks as well as override ones specified by the page, but the page should also be allow to specify integrity checks too 15:34:54 (The user can override such as if they don't want additional scripts they add later on to run until the user has approved them, but continue to let the approved scripts to run.) 15:36:11 (If the user specifies integrity checks they can be applied to inline scripts too though) 15:37:37 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:38:16 -!- erdic has joined. 15:40:40 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:40:41 -!- villasukka has joined. 15:42:06 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:50:21 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 15:55:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Goodbye). 16:07:40 -!- nycs has joined. 16:09:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:30:19 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 17:03:27 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:05:24 -!- RUSBE has joined. 17:06:51 -!- nycs has joined. 17:12:30 -!- _256Q has joined. 17:35:49 -!- RUSBE has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:40:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 17:43:04 i wrote a json parser 17:43:08 in 20 lines of bash 17:43:18 https://github.com/izabera/j < if anyone is interested 17:44:44 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 17:52:18 izabera: I think you forgot "uses bash as a scripting language" in "bugs" 17:52:45 * hppavilion[1] slow claps coppro 17:52:47 nah <.< 17:53:05 bash is fine if you know what you're doing 17:53:28 i mean it has all kind of problems but which language doesnt 18:02:14 -!- Wright has joined. 18:06:29 -!- rg_ has joined. 18:08:30 izabera, other, better scripting languages generally have fewer problems 18:09:26 which problems are you thinking of? 18:09:41 izabera, an extra space can delete your entire file system 18:09:50 ah yes, exactly 18:10:06 there are two kind of problems: the "i don't know how to use bash so bash must be the worst language ever" 18:10:12 and the actual problems 18:11:04 Taneb: what extra space is that? prior to a / in rm -rf foo/*? 18:11:29 other, better scripting languages don't make you hate them if you try to write a program in them without being familiar 18:11:37 ^ 18:11:58 hi Phantom_Hoover 18:12:03 i hate haskell 18:12:06 it's unreadable 18:12:08 unwriteable 18:12:19 I <3 haskell 18:12:21 haskell is not a scripting language in any case 18:12:24 I always feel smarter when something works 18:12:25 whatever 18:12:28 unlike idris 18:12:31 where I just feel dumber 18:12:36 coppro, yeah, that one, it came up in the steam linux client among others 18:12:45 Taneb: how did your solution to the haskell loop puzzle go 18:12:45 from my understanding there's something called ghci 18:12:57 http://www.vgmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/son-this-is-bait.png 18:13:07 shachaf, I had a crazy idea involving existential constraints 18:14:11 Taneb: oh right that 18:14:19 yeah that was ... a fun bug 18:25:24 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:54:11 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 19:01:20 -!- mihow has joined. 19:05:33 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 19:09:03 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:18:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 19:22:41 `unidecode ə 19:22:42 ​[U+0259 LATIN SMALL LETTER SCHWA] 19:24:46 -!- augur has joined. 19:31:00 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: .). 20:01:40 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:54 -!- mihow has joined. 20:11:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:16:00 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:24:32 -!- MDude has joined. 20:29:03 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:31:05 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:43:01 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:46:47 -!- Froox has joined. 20:48:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:54:37 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:55:45 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 21:02:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:05:44 -!- rg_ has joined. 21:08:36 `? weighted companion cube 21:08:37 weighted companion cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:08:40 `? companion cube 21:08:42 companion cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:09:17 `? cube 21:09:18 cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:09 `? weighted companion 21:11:10 weighted companion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:11 `? weighted 21:11:13 weighted? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:15 `? companion 21:11:16 companion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:22 Best be thorough. 21:11:36 `? weighted cube 21:11:37 weighted cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:45 `? 21:11:46 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:12:02 I think that's it. 21:12:29 `? 21:12:30 ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:12:53 (had to try, sorry :P) 21:24:26 `run \? wisdom | rainbow 21:24:27 ​wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 21:26:05 Yay for cut-in-the-middle UTF-8. 21:26:48 * puckipedia notes that HackEgo also uses ZWSP protocol 21:27:53 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:39:28 `? rainbow 21:39:29 rainbow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:39:36 `? Minecraft 21:39:37 Minecraft? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:39:47 you're just not wise enough, HackEgo 21:40:34 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 21:41:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:41:17 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:43:06 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:44:28 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:47:53 -!- rg_ has joined. 21:51:50 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:51:59 -!- boily has joined. 21:55:26 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mathboy601 * New user account 21:59:19 promising nickname... 22:01:44 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:05:47 [wiki] [[Talk:Brainfact]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43692&oldid=36748 * Mathboy601 * (+448) /* Just ><++ for brainf*** equivalence? */ new section 22:07:46 [wiki] [[Brainfact]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43693&oldid=36759 * Mathboy601 * (+0) +++ makes 6, @ jumps to the 6!th character; 6! = 720 22:15:49 int-ello. 22:16:58 `wisdom 22:17:01 hax0r/hax0r (see ¯\(°​_o)/¯) 22:17:51 spot of the boily, governor? 22:18:57 * boily tries to porthello shachaf with that idiom, but to no avail 22:19:35 shachafellot of the myself? governachaf? spot shachof the still me? 22:22:35 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 22:22:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:26:59 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 22:30:20 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:34:36 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:38 hello 22:40:24 helloren. 22:41:20 www.youtu.be/UgD5ZAKcIIE 22:42:59 (I copied that out of the filename. are youtu.be links permalinks?) 22:43:44 I believe you want the wwwless version. this link doesn't resolve. 22:43:56 ah. there 22:46:42 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:05:07 -!- gde33|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:22:48 -!- gde33 has joined. 23:29:35 -!- tromp has joined. 23:36:32 `wisdom 23:36:34 output/ 23:45:40 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: Changing server). 23:46:13 -!- newsham has joined. 23:54:43 `wisdom 23:54:45 1/The 1 is just for disambiguation. 23:54:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:54:56 `culprits wisdom/1 23:54:59 oerjan oerjan 23:56:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 23:58:18 it's doubly oerjany. 23:58:44 spot of the spot of the oerjan, governor?, governor? 2015-08-06: 00:00:03 In some grand corruption of the hash incrementation on the ESOP headless point to the fuck for extension? 00:00:14 I know a man who saw a man who saw a spot of the spot of oerjan's governor's governor's bear. 00:00:29 tsellott. fnord? 00:00:50 I found the parum. 00:00:55 [wiki] [[Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43694&oldid=42978 * 123.151.153.35 * (+14) /* Quine */ 00:01:05 I think I want to use a script of same existing registers dependent on the data to the pointer, and not sentible programming. 00:01:15 No one works. 00:01:28 Although I also have the point in lists that I have a particular rule, and it is faster, but they have to count a thing that things that must be inverted in the picture did people using the colors meaning an expected bits. I think. 00:01:53 And of a difference for such a real position that means to do it to the talk of places of concats of the constructor, and compile and system machine... 00:04:05 02:54:26: Sounds like that time i lambdabot :p 00:06:36 fungot: stop leaking your sentience onto other bots twh 00:06:37 boily: or the cdr of each lst and do the sensible thing: he hasn't got a clock that beeps until you get ' out of memory. 00:07:26 -!- MDude has joined. 00:20:03 Best clock. 00:20:07 It just keeps beeping. 00:20:31 I had this foldable alarm clock, one day it just started beeping and would. not. stop. 00:20:45 It didn't have an easily removable battery. 00:28:01 -!- aretecode has joined. 00:30:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:30:41 exactly WHO is in the middle that I need to worry about a MITM attack from? 00:32:34 mahmoud ahmadinejad hth 00:33:11 is he in control of a server between me and California? 00:33:34 you'd be surprised. 00:33:51 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:33:51 -!- Herbalist has quit (Client Quit). 00:33:59 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:34:17 -!- Herbalist has joined. 00:34:17 -!- Herbalist has quit (Client Quit). 00:37:44 -!- mihow has joined. 00:37:46 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 00:39:01 ok my type family uc in ghci still works in 7.10.2... 00:39:08 *unsafeCoerce 00:46:32 hellørjan. still coercing innocent types together? 00:48:02 yep 00:48:19 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7102#comment:4 00:49:06 -!- grotewold has joined. 00:49:10 shachaf: ^ 00:49:49 oerjan: fancy 00:50:53 once you got a taste of fame, you just couldn't stop 00:52:05 hm actually there's no need to have separate uc and fro, after the new instance is defined fro works directly. 00:52:17 shachaf: mwahahaha? 00:55:32 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:58:50 `` grep -FIi 'evil overlord' wisdom/* 00:58:55 grep: wisdom/le: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°​_o): Is a directory \ wisdom/oerjan:Your famous evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. 00:58:55 | 00:58:56 o/`¯º 01:02:40 oerjan: oh, this is ghci-only 01:03:24 1371 characters! 01:03:43 shachaf: yeah 01:04:52 what is fro? 01:05:20 oren: um, see link? 01:05:39 at the end, it's really unsafeCoerce 01:06:09 oh. so it's a haskell pointer cast 01:06:17 yeah 01:06:51 Is there a "safeCoerce"? 01:06:58 fizzie: yes! 01:07:04 it's called coerce 01:07:08 :t coerce 01:07:09 (Functor f, Contravariant f) => f a -> f b 01:07:13 wrong one 01:07:23 Can you define the specific coercion from ieee double to int64_t 01:07:28 :t GHC.Coerce.coerce 01:07:29 Not in scope: ‘GHC.Coerce.coerce’ 01:07:33 in a typesafe manner? 01:08:06 :t GHC.Coercible.coerce 01:08:07 Not in scope: ‘GHC.Coercible.coerce’ 01:08:10 wtf 01:08:33 :t GHC.Coercable.coerce 01:08:34 Not in scope: ‘GHC.Coercable.coerce’ 01:08:39 :t Coercable.coerce 01:08:40 Not in scope: ‘Coercable.coerce’ 01:08:49 :t GHC.coerce 01:08:50 Not in scope: ‘GHC.coerce’ 01:08:55 :t GHC 01:08:56 one of you is spamming the channel here 01:08:56 Not in scope: data constructor ‘GHC’ 01:08:57 :t GHC.Exts.coerce 01:08:58 GHC.Types.Coercible a b => a -> b 01:09:15 oren: don't be silly, no one can guess GHC module names hth 01:09:16 not naming any names, but his name starts with o and ends with n 01:09:30 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 01:10:14 i don't think lambdabot imports that one... 01:10:25 So the kind Coercible contains types that have known binary representations? 01:10:44 fizzie: the safeCoerce only works for wrapping and unwrapping newtype stuff 01:10:52 *safe coerce 01:11:13 oren: *typeclass, nominally 01:11:14 "This class does not have regular instances; instead they are created on-the-fly during type-checking. Trying to manually declare an instance of Coercible is an error." 01:12:33 oren: it's not that general, coerce is a do-nothing cast 01:13:35 as is unsafeCoerce, the difference is coerce only works when the types are safely interchangeable 01:13:45 -!- llue has joined. 01:13:45 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 01:13:45 -!- llue has joined. 01:14:58 which is partly representation, partly a semantic thing 01:15:54 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 01:17:26 (e.g. Map key1 v and Map key2 v are not interchangeable even if the key types are, because they might have different sort orders and Map is a binary search tree) 01:17:43 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:18:12 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:18:50 well yeah I would not expect complex data structures to work with a pointer cast, only things like that stupid float sqrt trick. 01:19:11 this is ensured by Map having a "role annotation" 01:19:26 oren: um complex data structures work just fine 01:19:38 list types can be converted this way 01:19:55 and float vs. int _cannot_ be 01:20:06 (Double vs. Int, presumably) 01:20:23 haskell has a Float type hth 01:20:36 shachaf: yeah but it is scow 01:20:43 but so is Double 01:20:46 and Maps can be converted on the _result_ type 01:20:51 ...granted. 01:21:08 What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating Point Arithmetic: 01:21:11 It's scow. 01:22:02 > M.fromList [(0,'a'),(0/0,'b'),(1,'c')] 01:22:04 fromList [(0.0,'a'),(NaN,'b'),(1.0,'c')] 01:22:14 hmph 01:22:27 > M.fromList [(0,'a'),(0/0,'b'),(1,'c'),(0/0,'d')] 01:22:28 fromList [(0.0,'a'),(NaN,'b'),(1.0,'c'),(NaN,'d')] 01:22:33 there you go 01:23:32 > M.fromList [(0,'a'),(0/0,'b'),(1,'c'),(0/0,'d'),(-1,'e')] 01:23:33 : can't find file: L.hs 01:23:36 > M.fromList [(0,'a'),(0/0,'b'),(1,'c'),(0/0,'d'),(-1,'e')] 01:23:38 fromList [(0.0,'a'),(NaN,'b'),(1.0,'c'),(NaN,'d'),(-1.0,'e')] 01:23:47 bah 01:24:07 not sure what you're going for there 01:24:12 perhaps it's nan of my business 01:24:32 basically that NaN breaks as Map key 01:24:38 0/0 01:24:39 and ruins the rest of the map 01:24:44 yes, i got that bit 01:25:05 (0v0) Hoot 01:25:21 but somehow they all seemed to end up in the order i inserted them 01:25:37 (u_u)p 01:25:42 ok i'm giving up on this palindrome thing 01:25:54 oh right logs 01:26:20 -!- notfowl has changed nick to fowl. 01:26:21 oerjan: did you figure out the loops thing twhib 01:26:23 shachaf: btw i realized the [[]+] problem can be solved by abusing (), in theory 01:26:43 so loop (loop ()) plus 01:26:44 oerjan: yes, i already had an instance B () for that 01:26:47 oh 01:26:48 is it clear that (n_n) is happy and (u_u) is sad 01:26:59 oerjan: but it's tricky to make it work 01:27:19 shachaf: my idea was, when in doubt CPS 01:27:26 i already cpsed hth 01:27:28 oh 01:27:33 or did i? 01:27:36 maybe you mean double cps 01:27:41 possibly 01:27:41 or triple cps, or however many levels 01:27:50 CPS ALL THE THINGS 01:28:43 This reminds me of that RPN thing I saw years ago. 01:28:58 Where you could write "x y add z mult" and so on. 01:29:33 dc you mean? 01:30:01 i'm pretty sure that's not legal dc syntax hth 01:30:02 i mean haskell hthib 01:30:11 at least not with the intended meaning 01:31:06 shachaf: i had this idea that only the top function in each subexpression should be a -> type 01:31:35 `` culprits wisdom/csv 01:31:37 orenn orenn 01:31:46 * boily unicodely mapoles oren 01:34:17 i also think i decided () should _not_ be a B type because that'd mess up inference 01:34:22 ` 01:34:23 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 01:34:30 `? csv 01:34:31 CSV猫stands猫for猫Cat猫Separated猫Values 01:34:37 ehehe 01:35:03 i was too tired to think then, and i'm not sure if i'm awake enough now 01:35:04 laughing at your own joke like that is poor form hth 01:35:25 I had my land behind my head anime style 01:35:30 *hand 01:35:49 land behind my head, MtG style 01:37:03 oerjan: i'm not sure you've played MtG hth 01:37:40 oren: あほ 01:38:40 -!- egrep has changed nick to zgrep. 01:38:51 true. i had an opportunity once but didn't. i just know it has lands 01:39:37 16i[laPlbdP1+ddsbC0>cCO!>d]sc[80sbla1+dsaln>c]sdA0sbC2saCAsnlcx 01:39:59 oerjan: you said "true", but then you made my statement false tdnh 01:40:24 you mean now you're sure i haven't? 01:40:45 don't worry, it was not an eternal, unchanging condition hth 01:40:49 ok you only implied it 01:43:29 But did you read the rules of MtG game? 01:43:35 no. 01:43:54 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 01:44:13 i don't find this kind of game attractive. 01:44:24 `` culprits wisdom/fnord\ am 01:44:26 boily 01:44:34 oh. hm. euh. 01:44:38 oerjan: what kind of game do you find attractive 01:45:00 games where i don't have to plan too much 01:45:03 What I like more than the playing of Magic: the Gathering is the puzzles (Magic: the Puzzling) 01:46:50 i think it's not the kind of puzzle i like, either 01:46:59 it's that old PSPACE vs. NP thing 01:47:07 coppro: chelloppro. have you ever played Judge Tower? 01:49:18 How can I read Windows help files on Linux (converting to man pages, plain text, or DVI is also fine) 01:50:17 hezzo38. CHM? 01:51:37 No, the older .HLP format 01:56:21 aha! I can watch youtube through vlc in lower resolution by adding &fmt=18 to the url 01:56:28 now that's a format I haven't heard of in a long time. 01:59:43 Should I make the braille pattern block be oxel graphics? 02:01:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: VIBRATING CHICKEN). 02:19:26 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:19:28 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:19:49 -!- Wright has joined. 02:23:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:24:17 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 02:38:13 How is it that meeting new people is so very tiring? 02:39:46 All the braille characters are now in my font. 02:40:24 1637 characters 02:40:35 is the new total 02:41:27 maybe you should make `flist and update interested parties using that 02:43:05 -!- Aearnus has joined. 02:54:02 `flist 02:54:03 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: flist: not found 02:54:15 shachaf: how do I do that? 02:54:37 makelist 02:54:45 `makelist flist 02:54:47 No output. 02:55:00 `flist 02:55:01 flist: 02:55:04 now people can subscribe using `` echo name >> bin/flist 02:55:13 ffancy 02:56:22 Even the hardest mode ("V-HARD") of Pokemon de Panepon is too easy, also should add "X-HARD" level even more!!! 02:56:40 [wiki] [[WARP]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43695&oldid=40980 * 210.86.83.200 * (+5) Conform user name to site policy 03:20:52 -!- variable has joined. 03:23:59 -!- Aearnus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:36:20 -!- llue has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:36:42 -!- llue has joined. 03:38:38 `? cube 03:38:39 cube? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:39:01 `learn Cubes come in all sizes, colors and materials, but only one shape. 03:39:03 Learned 'cube': Cubes come in all sizes, colors and materials, but only one shape. 03:42:34 shachafellot of the myself? governachaf? spot shachof the still me? <-- shachaf, please stop breaking boily twh 03:52:52 wihib 04:02:36 * oerjan rambles uncontrbaily 04:10:21 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 04:16:33 What is your prediction what can happen next in "level20.tex" story, and how much would you bet on it? 04:16:35 -!- rodgort has quit (K-Lined). 04:17:58 -!- rodgort has joined. 04:23:04 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:26:01 I haven't read level20.tex 04:28:53 -!- Aearnus has joined. 04:35:22 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:35:30 zzo38: I predict that the story will get longer. 04:35:53 I predict there may or may not be events. 04:35:58 and i'd probably bet a reasonable amount on it, but not with you as my counterparty hth 04:38:19 I mean to be more specific 04:40:10 zzo38: I predict that Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe will die, and I also predict that Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe will live. 04:40:23 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:40:38 I'll bet a reasonable amount at the right odds. 04:42:04 What kind of reasonable amount? 04:42:58 Whatever amounts balance the book. 04:44:56 Are you trying to earn comp bonuses by betting on both sides and losing? 04:47:09 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 04:47:16 What are comp bonuses? 04:47:51 Allows you to get a discount at a hotel if you gamble there a lot. 04:51:50 honestly most hotels where you can also gamble have very low prices afaik 04:53:25 yay 5 people starred my micro json parser on github 04:53:40 i'm most popular than ever 04:53:58 izabera: ★ 04:53:59 is that correct english? i meant i've never been as popular 04:54:06 yayy a star on irc 04:54:20 ✨ 04:54:33 I'm not sure if it's proper but I didn 04:54:36 ✶ 04:54:50 didn't look twice at it when I read it, so it's proper enough to be American English 04:54:50 What is your micro json parser on github? 04:54:58 https://github.com/izabera/j this 04:55:21 I found PDJSON also in Github, and made it into a SQLite extension as well as fixed a bug that made it fail to support empty arrays. 04:55:50 Your program can be good if you want it in shell-scripts I suppose. 04:56:42 https://github.com/skeeto/pdjson '[...] crappy software license (GPL or "do no evil"). [...]' 04:56:52 i hate the gpl haters -_- 04:57:20 I am fine with GPL, but mostly I write program as public domain most recently. 04:57:47 I use GPL or PD with a reason, and MIT without a reason. 04:58:01 I prefer public domain mostly though 05:00:54 I put LANG=C in my .profile as otherwise it seems to want to use en_US.UTF-8 or en_CA.UTF-8 but I would rather to set the system's default locale to C 05:07:10 that would cause all kind of weird problems with readline 05:07:47 you can type multibyte characters, but then you have to press backspace several times to delete them, and the cursor may be misplaced, etc... 05:08:55 No it doesn't because also the terminal is set without multibyte character 05:09:23 fine then 05:22:01 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 05:57:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 05:59:01 Hellu' 06:01:05 hei på du 06:03:02 zzo38: What do you think of cards with abilities like bloodrush or Tymaret's second ability? 06:14:44 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:15:46 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 06:44:57 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 06:45:22 -!- variable has joined. 06:49:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:50:07 -!- variable has quit (Client Quit). 06:50:37 -!- variable has joined. 06:51:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:56:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:01:02 fnörd. 07:02:55 zzo38: I like that URI scheme 07:04:55 I think my language ADD has reached a point where I only look at unreleased languages 07:05:04 I was fascinated by Rust right up until 1.0 07:08:30 soon you'll only be able to look at unimplemented ones 07:13:44 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:18:08 and then uninvented ones. 07:18:30 Fortunately, we seem to have a good supply of those 07:19:12 -!- Froox has joined. 07:19:50 -!- Froo has joined. 07:23:14 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:23:48 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:23:51 `smlist 07:23:58 smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy 07:24:26 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:35:15 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:38:01 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:41:04 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 07:46:51 `? windows 07:46:52 windows? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:46:55 `? win32 07:46:56 win32? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 07:56:09 oh look, it's finally released! 07:56:35 Apache Subversion 1.9.0 released: http://svn.haxx.se/dev/archive-2015-08/0026.shtml 08:01:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Hm). 08:16:26 https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/user-liberation-watch-and-share-our-new-video 08:16:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:16:57 inspiring video 08:27:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:53:07 -!- x10A94 has joined. 09:03:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:05:07 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:10:31 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:13:21 [wiki] [[Talk:Smallfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43696&oldid=20026 * 123.113.49.39 * (+40) /* Binary counter */ new section 09:13:33 http://www.virtualglitter.com/ 09:13:44 can i keep on spamming stuff here? 09:13:48 it's cool stuff 09:24:24 -!- llue has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:30:00 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:31:46 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:40:25 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:45:23 fungot: Hit the floor! 09:45:23 mroman: will do. thanks. :) but... it's fnord long 09:45:36 :D 09:47:03 Win a free trip with fungot to the land of the Fnords. 09:47:03 mroman: now you know, the part after the decimal, by the way), would be to create a scheme job 09:53:49 > 2**8 09:53:51 256.0 09:53:53 > 2**16 09:53:54 65536.0 09:53:56 > 2**24 09:53:58 1.6777216e7 09:54:04 > 2^24 09:54:06 16777216 09:54:28 wait 09:54:39 #AAA is 12 bits 09:54:51 > 2^12 09:54:52 4096 09:54:55 so 4k colors 09:58:25 I need to do some testing 10:00:44 argh windows is such a pain 10:00:58 why can't we just use unices like I'm used to 10:11:41 Good old 12-bit color, I think there were a number of handheld consoles with that. 10:13:34 -!- lleu has joined. 10:13:48 I need a test image that is public domain 10:14:25 `thanks list of monochrome and RGB palettes 10:14:27 Thanks, list of monochrome and RGB palettes. Thist of monochrome and RGB palettes. 10:16:53 `thanks whistle 10:16:54 Thanks, whistle. Thistle. 10:17:52 mroman, do you need public domain, or do you just need available to use (eg, some creative commons licenses) 10:23:15 http://mroman.ch/colordepth.html 10:23:20 Found one through wikimedia 10:26:08 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 10:26:25 -!- boily has joined. 10:28:07 For small images you can easily remove 3 bit of color information per color component without suffering quality 10:28:40 which reduces the image size roughly 50% 10:30:39 You could even write some heuristic that removes information just on r, g or b (or combinations of that) 10:31:01 probably 10:33:37 I wish I still had my color correction python script 10:49:43 Somebody put up a bounty for a Mario 64 glitch 10:54:39 Quite a few el-cheapo monitors at least used to only have 6 bits of color depth, and do dithering. 10:54:49 Not sure how common that is these days. 10:55:18 [[ Also, most TN panels represent colors using only six bits per RGB color, or 18 bit in total, and are unable to display the 16.7 million color shades (24-bit truecolor) that are available from graphics cards. Instead, these panels display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method that combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use a form of temporal ... 10:55:24 ... dithering called Frame Rate Control (FRC), which cycles between different shades with each new frame to simulate an intermediate shade. Such 18 bit panels with dithering are sometimes advertised as having "16.2 million colors". ]] 10:55:24 `` culprits wisdom/konami\ code 10:55:26 No output. 10:55:33 `` culprits wisdom/konami 10:55:34 oren_ 10:55:52 oren: ... Y U NICODE? 10:57:23 `? konami 10:57:24 The konami code is ㊤㊤㊦㊦㊧㊨㊧㊨Ⓑ Ⓐ [START] 10:58:01 `` sed -i 's/START/SELECT] [START/' wisdom/konami 10:58:03 No output. 10:58:06 `? konami 10:58:07 The konami code is ㊤㊤㊦㊦㊧㊨㊧㊨Ⓑ Ⓐ [SELECT] [START] 11:04:22 I'm going to North bay now. logging out. 11:04:24 -!- oren has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:05:22 @tell oren My mapole is waiting for you. 11:05:22 Consider it noted. 11:10:43 -!- Aearnus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:21:37 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:22:16 -!- Simba_ has joined. 11:22:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PLATINUM CHICKEN). 11:26:24 -!- Simba_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:38:48 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:39:42 `wisdom 11:39:53 nooooooooodl/nooodl is the correct spelling 11:40:00 `wisdom 11:40:02 impomatic/impomatic never did anything weird enough to get into this database. 11:40:24 hm 11:40:26 really 11:42:06 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:43:26 `wisdom 11:43:27 tdt/That doesn't tdt. 11:48:21 You talking to me? 11:50:22 (That's right. I just recently watched Taxi Driver for the first time) 11:51:04 `wisdom 11:51:06 monoidal category/Monoidal categories are just 2-categories with a single object. 11:52:55 `? tanebvention 11:52:56 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex. 11:53:28 hu 11:53:31 that last sentence is new? 11:54:16 mroman, someone added an invention (either sex or BDSM, I can't quite recall) which I was uncomfortable with the idea of having invented 11:55:03 I stated such and the tanebvention wisdom was edited into the form you see now 11:55:03 I see. 11:55:10 `? mroman 11:55:12 mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. He's also an artist in unconventional warfare. 11:55:44 Password hashes that are worse than the identity function in what sense? 11:56:09 hash = password + date_of_birth 11:56:21 that'd be worse than hash = password (the identity function) 11:56:27 but I can't quite remember what it was. 11:59:37 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:02:07 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:04:13 But in general it is recommended to do a high-pass filter and then a low-pass filter on the password before hashing. 12:04:51 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:08:05 -!- Warrigal has joined. 12:33:51 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:34:33 -!- zadock has joined. 12:38:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:51:12 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:59:56 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:01:18 "... limit 20;" "108 rows in result set" 13:01:31 I guess it's an order-of-magnitude limit. 13:02:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:05:52 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 13:15:52 -!- nycs has joined. 13:22:46 It's scientific notation 13:27:08 Turns out it was just a confused fizzie. 13:27:25 Well, or arguably confusing output formatting. 13:51:49 `? FreeFull 13:51:50 FreeFull is either full of freedom or free of fulldom, we are not sure. 13:53:46 what is the gift finland gives the world? 13:54:48 quintopia: Free perkeles 13:56:41 why would i be sad if finland vanished overnight? 13:56:59 You'd lose the prime source of mämmi in the world. 13:57:23 quintopia, it'd cause pretty nasty tsunamis 13:59:44 Because suddenly there would be a lot of nothing where land used to be 13:59:51 And the sea would try to rush into that space 14:00:06 and how deep would it vanish to 14:00:13 This could be devestating to much of North, Central, and East Europe 14:00:54 Taneb: What if just all the people vanished? 14:00:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:01:24 i mean legally finland has sovereignty over all the rock underneath it, right? 14:01:32 it doesnt vanish into vacuum. it vanishes as a culture. the landmass exists as a part of sweden 14:01:38 FreeFull, then it'd most likely be colonized by Russia, which would change the geopolitics of the world 14:02:09 i like fizzies answer. mammi looks delicious. 14:02:39 "Originally mämmi was eaten during lent. Its laxative properties were associated with purification and purging." 14:02:48 wow great dessert 14:03:27 binge eat. mammi purge. binge eat some more. best holiday. 14:03:33 Taneb: Any person who tries to enter past the borders would disappear too 14:03:52 at that stage it's become a serious and troubling scientific anomaly 14:04:02 Yes 14:04:10 Any animals, machines, etc are not affected 14:04:12 Only humans 14:04:41 so i think that's probably going to be the primary effect it has? 14:04:53 Does that include people flying through the airspace 14:08:23 basically our thought experiment to determine the value of finland is 'if finland was annihilated and replaced with some crazy lacanian scar on the face of the world, would anyone really notice?' 14:09:26 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:09:30 `? lacanian 14:09:31 lacanian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:13:57 -!- TodPunk has joined. 14:18:07 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 14:18:07 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:19:19 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:19:29 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:19:33 -!- Wright has joined. 14:28:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 14:39:33 -!- aretecode has joined. 14:41:56 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 14:44:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:11:43 -!- zadock has joined. 15:18:51 -!- atrapado has joined. 15:44:10 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:45:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:50:35 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 16:04:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:08:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:14:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:14:40 `olist 996 16:14:42 olist 996: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 16:14:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:17:59 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:27:55 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 16:30:57 -!- zadock has joined. 16:57:55 -!- mihow has joined. 17:27:40 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:30:28 -!- mihow has joined. 17:30:36 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 17:32:57 -!- _256Q has joined. 17:32:57 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 17:32:57 -!- _256Q has joined. 17:49:23 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:57:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:59:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:03:33 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 18:07:08 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:08:06 Test 18:10:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Client Quit). 18:12:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:13:54 -!- mihow has joined. 18:20:51 I want to design an Esoteric Compiler Compiler 18:21:02 Anyone want to help? 18:21:06 what do you mean 18:21:52 -!- rg_ has joined. 18:21:52 Slereah__: Well it'd be an Esoteric language 18:21:55 For parser generation 18:22:16 Not necessarily one for generating parser generators for other langs 18:23:32 Slereah__: Get it? 18:24:47 Isn't that basically what Thue is? 18:24:57 I don't think so 18:25:11 Thue is a String Rewriting Language 18:25:18 It doesn't generate parsers 18:26:12 Slereah__: So no, I'm pretty sure Thue isn't an ECC 18:35:05 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:53:07 [wiki] [[Hanoi Love]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43697&oldid=43559 * Rdebath * (+125) Lots of cats 19:06:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:10:44 @let type BF = String; newtype X a b = X ((BF -> a) -> b); class B f a where {fromB :: BF -> f a}; instance a ~ b => B (X a) b where {fromB bf = X ($ bf)}; instance (b ~ X (f a) c, B f a) => B ((->) b) c where {fromB bf (X f) = f (fromB . (bf ++))}; class L a where {loop :: a}; instance (B f a1, b ~ f a1, L (X b (a -> b))) => L (a -> b) where loop = fromB "" (loop :: X b (a -> b)) 19:10:45 .L.hs:161:26: 19:10:46 Ambiguous occurrence ‘loop’ 19:10:46 It could refer to either ‘L.loop’, defined at .L.hs:158:9 19:10:50 bah 19:11:10 wait, is this an "either" over a set of one element? 19:11:36 @let type BF = String; newtype X a b = X ((BF -> a) -> b); class B f a where {fromB :: BF -> f a}; instance a ~ b => B (X a) b where {fromB bf = X ($ bf)}; instance (b ~ X (f a) c, B f a) => B ((->) b) c where {fromB bf (X f) = f (fromB . (bf ++))}; class L a where {lopp :: a}; instance (B f a1, b ~ f a1, L (X b (a -> b))) => L (a -> b) where lopp = fromB "" (lopp :: X b (a -> b)) 19:11:37 Defined. 19:11:46 @let instance a ~ b => L (X a (() -> b)) where {lopp = X $ \c () -> c "[]"}; instance f b ~ X a c => L (X a (f b -> c)) where {lopp = X $ \c (X f) -> f $ c . ('[':) . (++"]")}; plus = fromB "+"; minus = fromB "-"; run :: X BF BF -> BF; run (X f) = f id 19:11:47 .L.hs:166:10: 19:11:47 Could not deduce (c ~ b) 19:11:47 from the context (f b ~ X a c) 19:11:56 now wtf 19:12:29 hm this might actually be a 7.10.1 bug 19:12:40 and i've finally upgraded 19:13:02 @let instance a ~ b => L (X a (() -> b)) where {lopp = X $ \c () -> c "[]"}; instance f ~ X a, b ~ c => L (X a (f b -> c)) where {lopp = X $ \c (X f) -> f $ c . ('[':) . (++"]")}; plus = fromB "+"; minus = fromB "-"; run :: X BF BF -> BF; run (X f) = f id 19:13:02 Parse failed: Illegal instance declaration 19:13:08 oops 19:13:22 @let instance a ~ b => L (X a (() -> b)) where {lopp = X $ \c () -> c "[]"}; instance (f ~ X a, b ~ c) => L (X a (f b -> c)) where {lopp = X $ \c (X f) -> f $ c . ('[':) . (++"]")}; plus = fromB "+"; minus = fromB "-"; run :: X BF BF -> BF; run (X f) = f id 19:13:23 Defined. 19:13:26 there. 19:13:43 @messages- 19:13:43 oerjan said 1d 8h 53m 5s ago: I sense that all the suggested syntaxes have some trouble with programs like [[]+] 19:13:51 > run $ loop () loop (plus loop () minus) plus 19:13:52 Couldn't match expected type ‘(a0 (b0, d1) (c0, d1) -> a0 b0 c0, 19:13:52 d0) 19:13:52 -> (t0 -> f1 a3 -> X BF BF, d0)’ 19:13:57 goddammit 19:14:08 this works perfectly well in ghci 19:15:07 > plus minus 19:15:09 No instance for (Show (f0 a0)) 19:15:09 arising from a use of ‘show_M76052192180943569186544’ 19:15:09 The type variables ‘f0’, ‘a0’ are ambiguous 19:15:13 > run $ plus minus 19:15:16 "+-" 19:15:22 > run $ loop () 19:15:23 Couldn't match expected type ‘X (BF, d0) (BF, d0)’ 19:15:23 with actual type ‘()’ 19:15:23 In the first argument of ‘loop’, namely ‘()’ 19:15:51 wtf goes wrong 19:15:51 spot of the not believing you, governor? 19:16:13 Oh. 19:16:16 s/loop/lopp/g hth 19:16:41 > run $ lopp () lopp (plus lopp () minux) plus 19:16:43 Not in scope: ‘minux’ 19:16:43 Perhaps you meant ‘minus’ (line 169) 19:16:45 > run $ lopp () lopp (plus lopp () minus) plus 19:16:47 No instance for (B f a) arising from a use of ‘lopp’ 19:16:47 The type variables ‘f’, ‘a’ are ambiguous 19:16:47 Note: there are several potential instances: 19:16:48 fff 19:16:55 ok, well, back to you 19:17:04 > lopp () 19:17:05 No instance for (Show (f0 a10)) 19:17:05 arising from a use of ‘show_M41538240618094895006637’ 19:17:05 The type variables ‘f0’, ‘a10’ are ambiguous 19:17:06 argh 19:17:12 > run $ lopp () 19:17:13 "[]" 19:17:18 > run $ lopp plus 19:17:19 No instance for (L (X (X BF BF) (f0 a0 -> X BF BF))) 19:17:19 (maybe you haven't applied enough arguments to a function?) 19:17:19 arising from a use of ‘lopp’ 19:18:18 :t lopp plus 19:18:19 forall (k :: BOX) (k1 :: BOX) (f :: k -> *) (a :: k) (f1 :: k1 -> *) (a1 :: k1). (L (X (f1 a1) (f a -> f1 a1)), B f a, B f1 a1) => f1 a1 19:18:23 this is wonderful 19:18:31 your version is so much more complicated 19:18:42 wait, did you solve it too 19:18:54 no 19:19:01 more complicated than the version that didn't support lopps 19:19:29 well, this version doesn't support lopps either as far as i can tell hth 19:19:48 it works in ghci 7.10.2 ;_; 19:21:02 spot of the unportability? 19:21:27 i assume it's one of the bugs that was fixed 19:22:42 This reminds me of https://hackage.haskell.org/package/HoleyMonoid-0.1.1/docs/Data-HoleyMonoid.html 19:22:44 imagine if they'd included the right release notes 19:23:05 Which I'm listed in the authors list of for some reason. 19:23:08 -!- mihow has joined. 19:23:59 That's probably because X = HoleyMonoid BF 19:27:43 OKAY 19:28:11 > run $ plus loop plus 19:28:13 Couldn't match type ‘a0 (b0, d0) (c0, d0) -> a0 b0 c0’ 19:28:13 with ‘X (f a) (f0 a1 -> X BF BF)’ 19:28:13 In the second argument of ‘($)’, namely ‘plus loop plus’ 19:28:22 oops 19:28:25 > run $ plus lopp plus 19:28:27 No instance for (B f a) arising from a use of ‘plus’ 19:28:27 The type variables ‘f’, ‘a’ are ambiguous 19:28:27 Note: there are several potential instances: 19:28:41 oh hm 19:29:00 maybe it's about that thing where it doesn't follow instances right 19:30:08 run $ plus minus 19:30:14 oops 19:30:17 > run $ plus minus 19:30:19 "+-" 19:30:59 > run $ plus lopp () 19:31:01 "+[]" 19:31:09 > run $ plus lopp () minus 19:31:10 "+[]-" 19:31:21 so the empty case seems to work, hm 19:31:54 > run $ lopp () minus 19:31:57 "[]-" 19:32:01 also that one 19:32:12 ok, that leaves maybe just one instance with problems 19:34:07 or wait hm 19:34:47 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:34:50 > run $ plus lopp minus 19:34:51 No instance for (B f a) arising from a use of ‘plus’ 19:34:52 The type variables ‘f’, ‘a’ are ambiguous 19:34:52 Note: there are several potential instances: 19:40:30 hm wait what... 19:42:19 @undef 19:42:19 Undefined. 19:42:23 type BF = String; newtype X a b = X ((BF -> a) -> b); class B f (a :: *) where {fromB :: BF -> f a}; instance a ~ b => B (X a) b where {fromB bf = X ($ bf)}; instance (b ~ X (f a) c, B f a) => B ((->) b) c where {fromB bf (X f) = f (fromB . (bf ++))}; class L a where {lopp :: a}; instance (B f a1, b ~ f a1, L (X b (a -> b))) => L (a -> b) where lopp = fromB "" (lopp :: X b (a -> b)) 19:42:29 oops 19:42:31 @let type BF = String; newtype X a b = X ((BF -> a) -> b); class B f (a :: *) where {fromB :: BF -> f a}; instance a ~ b => B (X a) b where {fromB bf = X ($ bf)}; instance (b ~ X (f a) c, B f a) => B ((->) b) c where {fromB bf (X f) = f (fromB . (bf ++))}; class L a where {lopp :: a}; instance (B f a1, b ~ f a1, L (X b (a -> b))) => L (a -> b) where lopp = fromB "" (lopp :: X b (a -> b)) 19:42:33 Defined. 19:42:45 @let instance a ~ b => L (X a (() -> b)) where {lopp = X $ \c () -> c "[]"}; instance f b ~ X a c => L (X a (f b -> c)) where {lopp = X $ \c (X f) -> f $ c . ('[':) . (++"]")}; plus = fromB "+"; minus = fromB "-"; run :: X BF BF -> BF; run (X f) = f id 19:42:46 .L.hs:166:10: 19:42:46 Could not deduce (c ~ b) 19:42:46 from the context (f b ~ X a c) 19:42:49 darn 19:43:13 @let instance a ~ b => L (X a (() -> b)) where {lopp = X $ \c () -> c "[]"}; instance (f ~ X a, b ~ c) => L (X a (f b -> c)) where {lopp = X $ \c (X f) -> f $ c . ('[':) . (++"]")}; plus = fromB "+"; minus = fromB "-"; run :: X BF BF -> BF; run (X f) = f id 19:43:14 Defined. 19:43:45 > run $ loop () loop (plus loop () minus) plus 19:43:46 Couldn't match expected type ‘(a0 (b0, d1) (c0, d1) -> a0 b0 c0, 19:43:46 d0) 19:43:46 -> (t0 -> f1 a3 -> X BF BF, d0)’ 19:43:49 damn 19:43:57 oh wait 19:44:11 > run $ lopp () lopp (plus lopp () minus) plus 19:44:13 "[][+[]-]+" 19:44:15 whew! 19:44:18 shachaf: ^ 19:44:22 fancy 19:44:26 oerjan++ 19:44:27 it was PolyKinds messing things up 19:44:32 now make it work with OverloadedLists twh 19:44:38 AAAAAAA 19:44:39 PolyKinds does that. 19:45:02 except for one little detail, that context i had to split 19:45:52 oh, and how do you represent the empty program? twh 19:46:55 ARGH 19:47:18 :D 19:47:47 shachaf: just make run a class method then you can use (), i think 19:48:19 sgtm 19:48:44 now do befunge twhib 19:49:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:50:02 wait, is this an "either" over a set of one element? <-- no it just got cut off, the other is from Control.Arrow, i think 19:50:51 Oh, that's what ais523 meant. 19:56:41 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:57:02 -!- nycs has joined. 19:57:31 oerjan: does "shouldn't bother funding his IRA" mean "will die and not be resurrected"? 20:04:35 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:05:19 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:08:13 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:08:45 -!- Froox has joined. 20:09:24 -!- MDream has joined. 20:09:38 -!- tromp___ has joined. 20:10:12 Oh, I got netsplit? 20:10:15 Also, [16:08] What's IRA? 20:11:41 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:12:02 MDream, somehow I don't think it's the terrorist group 20:12:05 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:12:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:12:50 But is it what Pixiv tags that translate to "thanks for your IRA" are reffering to? 20:13:44 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 20:15:01 [wiki] [[Talk:Smallfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43698&oldid=43696 * Rdebath * (+267) /* Binary counter */ 20:15:31 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 20:17:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:17:55 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:28:20 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 20:35:18 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Brandt * New user account 20:36:06 shachaf: i don't remember the IRA part, but i remember the oracle's worthing as "last breath _ever_". 20:38:42 also, this was supposed to be just a short break because i couldn't sleep once i had the haskell idea -> 20:38:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Night). 20:40:02 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43699&oldid=43472 * Brandt * (+282) Add Hodor per example at http://www.hodor-lang.org 20:41:00 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 20:48:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:58:49 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Krobb * New user account 21:04:34 -!- tromp___ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:05:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:06:50 oerjan: i suppose that could mean being a vampire and so on 21:07:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:10:14 -!- impomatic_ has left. 21:13:54 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:16:10 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:17:35 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43700&oldid=43595 * Krobb * (+446) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ Added an idea for an esolang based on "the penis game" (Bottom of page) 21:18:24 do I even want to look at this edit? 21:18:52 OK, it's terrible in a different way to the way I expected 21:24:59 -!- variable has joined. 21:30:19 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:36:22 Every piece of Perl 6 code I've seen so far has been mostly readable, but that could be because only sane people currently care about Perl 6, if it gets popular will it get unreadable? 21:37:17 -!- rg_ has joined. 21:37:24 apparently robot heads in Questionable Content can work separate from the robot body, just like in Star Wars, and they can be reattached to the body easily 21:42:39 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:44:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:44:31 -!- lleu has joined. 21:44:31 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 21:44:31 -!- lleu has joined. 21:46:34 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:49:33 -!- rg_ has joined. 21:58:19 -!- oren has joined. 21:58:23 ls 21:58:28 shit 21:58:37 Hello 21:59:26 @metar CYYB 21:59:27 CYYB 062100Z 34006KT 30SM SCT065 BKN200 21/10 A2998 RMK CU3CI3 SLP157 DENSITY ALT 2100FT 22:00:00 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:11:16 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:22:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 22:23:21 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:28:52 @metar KATL 22:28:53 KATL 062152Z 30010KT 10SM FEW030TCU SCT120 BKN150 OVC200 28/21 A2990 RMK AO2 RAB39E48 SLP114 CB DSNT S-SW TCU VC SW SHRA SE-SW P0000 T02780211 22:34:28 -!- tromp has joined. 22:48:28 ls -lr 22:48:36 crap 23:18:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 23:18:53 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:24:50 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 23:27:14 -!- fowl has joined. 23:45:16 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 23:47:03 -!- grotewold has joined. 23:47:15 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:49:51 ╀╁╂╃╄╅╆╇╈╉╊╋┼┽┾┿ 23:57:57 ⅠⅡⅢⅣⅤⅥⅦⅧⅨⅩⅪⅫⅬⅭⅮⅯ 23:58:05 ⅐⅑⅒⅓⅔⅕⅖⅗⅘⅙⅚⅛⅜⅝⅞⅟ 2015-08-07: 00:00:48 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:14:57 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 00:15:44 -!- avonis has joined. 00:17:02 -!- avonis has left ("Leaving"). 00:30:33 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:33:23 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:45:09 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:52:44 -!- rg_ has joined. 01:03:52 -!- mihow has joined. 01:20:40 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:22:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:07 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 01:28:52 -!- mihow has joined. 01:32:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:39:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:40:09 Hellu 01:43:22 -!- grotewold has joined. 01:53:54 Hi 01:56:32 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 01:57:30 hi 02:03:46 [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43701&oldid=43688 * Quintopia * (+817) /* BF Constants Cleanup */ 02:19:32 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:19:43 -!- Wright has joined. 02:46:20 ⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪⡪ 02:59:08 Why? 03:02:15 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:03:08 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 03:03:14 ⩊⩆⩛⸮ 03:03:20 ⩊ ⩆ ⩛ ⸮ 03:07:30 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 03:07:47 -!- lleu has joined. 03:38:09 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 03:49:22 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:55:43 -!- rg_ has joined. 03:57:34 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 04:04:59 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 04:06:35 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:07:49 -!- perrier has joined. 04:30:19 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:33:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:42:44 'COBOL was intended to a be a highly portable, "common" language. However, by 2001, around 300 dialects had been created.' 04:42:52 lol 04:52:25 commonly diverged. 04:52:52 that's true of many, many languages 04:53:14 well I guess not the design part 04:53:16 but still 05:32:07 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 05:47:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:53:09 oerjan: i suppose that could mean being a vampire and so on <-- i think we've clearly established vampires aren't the same people as the originals. 05:53:28 oerjan: ok, well, some other kind of undead thing 05:53:36 not sure why vampires were on my mind 05:53:52 maybe a golem like crystal was 05:54:09 although apparently her keeping her personality was unusual. 05:54:25 maybe it wasn't her personality but a clone of it 05:54:36 i,i http://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-23-unfortunate-dualist.html 05:59:13 reminds me of a story about the buddha i read in tezuka's manga 05:59:39 he resurrected a dead girl, but he did it by return an essentially _random_ soul into her body 05:59:49 *returning 06:00:24 because souls had no individuality preserved once they left the body 06:03:44 There was the theory in that book that there's just one global soul that zips back and forth between everyone zillions of times a second. 06:04:29 i have thought similar ideas 06:04:57 as in, if continuous identity is an illusion 06:05:15 and we really are a random person each moment 06:05:37 mmm. Thief of Time. 06:06:28 oerjan: those books by smullyan talk about all sorts of things along those lines 06:06:29 * oerjan hasn't read that, but is now reminded of michael ende's momo 06:06:32 it's great 06:06:36 whoa whoa whoa, Momo 06:06:44 momo is nice, too. 06:06:53 not very well known around here 06:07:15 i read all sorts of german children's books 06:07:57 It's very difficult to get a copy of Jim Knopf in English around here. :-( 06:08:29 There was one printing decades ago or something. 06:08:44 Nowadays the copies that are floating around cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. 06:12:45 whoa whoa whoa 06:12:50 Remember _The 35th of May_? 06:13:22 no. 06:13:41 how about _The Flying Classroom_ 06:14:08 no. 06:14:13 looj 06:14:20 how about _Emil and the Detectives_ 06:14:23 everyone knows that one 06:15:09 i don't think so. 06:15:35 hth 06:17:50 hm 06:17:53 http://www.amazon.com/Locomotive-trip-Complete-Works-button/dp/4000920413 06:18:07 i'm feeling slightly suspicious about this product for some reason 06:25:45 "Englisch Lernen mit Jim Knopf und Lukas dem Lokomotiv-Führer 1 by Michael Ende" 06:29:08 sound gut zu mir 06:44:49 hm. 06:44:54 how can I tell browser to cache my css 06:51:09 Dosen't look like my hoster supports mod_headers or mod_expires 07:13:11 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:28:23 oerjan: What? 07:28:45 mroman: see shachaf's line 07:38:02 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43702&oldid=43687 * Rdebath * (+103) Fix the >255 examples too. 07:40:16 -!- deka has joined. 07:40:47 -!- deka has left. 07:41:48 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:44:17 http://www.finanzmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/vergleich-kosten-franchisen-4k.gif 07:44:20 neat diagram 07:47:41 only the 300 and 2.5k Franchise are actually useful 07:48:02 the other ones don't really need to even exist 07:58:08 also the Go Pro Chest-Harness Angle totally sucks 07:58:16 it's like filming the floor 08:06:30 [wiki] [[User talk:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43703&oldid=43701 * Rdebath * (+752) /* BF Constants Cleanup */ 08:10:57 -!- Pirozhok-ii has joined. 08:12:11 What moron uses sprintf %s for queries 08:12:46 -!- Pirozhok-ii has left ("Quit"). 08:15:31 Poorly secured backdoor user that compromises all security measurements. This user is located in file '/db/valid.users' and has user name '****__DO_NOT_REMOVE_THIS_ENTRY__****'. 08:15:35 That's a good username though. 08:16:00 password = 'nohalp' #DO NOT CHANGE THIS 08:21:14 Everyone, the ICFP contest starts in a few hours. 08:21:56 http://icfpcontest.org/ 08:29:48 no time... traveling 08:30:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:36:15 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:42:24 -!- _256Q has joined. 08:42:24 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 08:42:24 -!- _256Q has joined. 08:50:15 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:52:04 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:52:20 goddammit 08:52:42 pressed q by accident in one of tatham's puzzles again 08:53:05 (when aiming for 1) 08:54:42 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:06:07 http://mroman.ch/html.html 09:06:10 single best page on the web . 09:06:51 Um 09:11:11 http://cl-informatik.uibk.ac.at/users/bf3/tmp/bot/b/IMG_1161.JPG 09:12:08 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:12:55 (I think that's prettier) 09:12:59 Sergeant Atham's puzzles. 09:14:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Run run). 09:44:18 fungot: Do you know füngöt? 09:44:18 mroman: how do you represent an expression and an environment, a compiler will error if you add loops. the c/ c++ 09:44:30 fungot: That's not a good compiler then. 09:44:30 mroman: i can initialize an accumulator at the first 09:44:57 `learn füngöt is the french pronunciation of fungot. 09:45:23 Learned 'füngöt': füngöt is the french pronunciation of fungot. 09:56:36 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:59:25 although this new algorithm can't remove reflections from a single image 09:59:40 but requires a serious of images with different angles 09:59:46 it's still very impressive though. 10:14:04 -!- __256Q has joined. 10:17:07 -!- _256Q has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:20:14 -!- __256Q has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:23:50 -!- __256Q has joined. 10:23:58 -!- __256Q has changed nick to _256Q. 10:23:59 -!- _256Q has quit (Client Quit). 10:29:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:31:21 -!- _256Q has joined. 10:31:43 -!- boily has joined. 10:32:06 -!- mtve- has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:34:50 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:35:06 -!- mtve has joined. 10:41:48 -!- rg_ has joined. 10:45:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:01 -!- perrier has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:01 -!- aretecode has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:01 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:01 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:01 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:02 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:03 -!- monotone has quit (*.net *.split). 10:49:16 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:49:16 -!- perrier has joined. 10:49:16 -!- aretecode has joined. 10:49:16 -!- b_jonas has joined. 10:49:16 -!- atehwa has joined. 10:49:16 -!- heroux has joined. 10:49:16 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:49:16 -!- monotone has joined. 11:02:36 `le/rn füngöt/Füngöt is the French pronunciation of fungot. 11:02:36 boily: quite tired even though slept at least seven hours. ping. but! the soon-to-come new, shiny version will be run on 11:02:51 fungot: you are füngöt. 11:02:51 boily: mine isn't that elegant, i guess. 11:02:53 Learned «füngöt» 11:03:49 mroman: mrelloman. wouldn't «fûngôt» be frenchier than the diæresed version? 11:04:11 yeah, füngöt is the German pronunciation 11:04:30 fun-goat is the English pronunciation 11:05:54 b_jellonas. what about fűngőt? 11:07:49 dunno, that looks strange 11:16:59 füngöt uses german letters to describe how stereotypical french people would pronounce it ;P 11:17:13 well.. how german thinks they would pronounce it 11:17:24 no data of an actual french speaker is yet available 11:17:56 I think I'm a French speaker. 11:19:17 /fʌn'gʌt/ is pretty close to how I say it. 11:19:22 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:19:44 Ain't we got fun. 11:19:53 * boily pats fungot 11:19:53 boily: i know the basics 11:20:09 fungot: Basics of French? 11:20:10 fizzie: would be cool. i looked up web 2.0" me, earlier today i used ' globally' loosely ther 11:20:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: オタク鶏). 11:27:00 -!- Skin has joined. 11:27:25 good morning 11:27:47 Hm 11:28:31 Ah yes the zora queen is here 11:28:38 yup 11:28:39 from linkbetweenworlds 11:28:43 hi 11:29:12 oh by the way 11:29:15 fungot, welcome back 11:29:15 b_jonas: phew. got the prob. 11:29:28 Fungots back 11:29:30 fungot: yeah, me to, me to, but it will end in a week 11:29:30 b_jonas: yeah. just that it turns fnord operators into fnord and then nickname 11:29:59 Fungot is replying like a human 11:31:11 fungot is a sentient robot with one flaw: fungot only responds when mentioned 11:31:11 oren: i hope sarahbot has restraint built in on those evals)) 11:31:48 see? 11:32:02 -!- rg_ has joined. 11:34:15 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 12:08:41 wow, fungot's replies are oddly relevant 12:08:41 TieSoul: the compilation is well-typed? you run two, one after another, like soldiers marching into the sea.... xd 12:09:05 does it use Markov chains? 12:09:10 fungot: lemmings. they're lemmings, not soldiers. 12:09:10 b_jonas: the same line numbers any more power than simple transfers etc. 12:09:18 fungot: no. 12:09:18 b_jonas: i like the fact that it's the most i've seen of frtime and flapjax they actually use dataflow to only update things when needed as opposed to 12:09:29 fungot: that's actually a different layer. 12:09:30 b_jonas: i don't really feel like wgetting a video, opening up xine and deleting a file just to see if the c-intercal install works. i don't 12:10:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:14:07 is it some sort of tetris? 12:19:21 i'm spending the morning feeding a cute tiny dog bits of chicken 12:20:50 https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/3b123c4ec05a95dd4b09 I just thought up a simple stack-based language, not sure if it's turing complete 12:21:08 it's pretty annoying to write in though 12:21:11 see hello world 12:21:17 -!- Skin has quit (Quit: Fuck me). 12:22:09 def not. needs some sort of loop either recursive or jumping 12:22:44 oh it has a loop 12:22:45 it has jumping 12:23:09 ok then it probably is 12:24:13 there's still one instruction I want to add, but I don't know what to have HELP do 12:24:22 maybe HELP would get a number from input? 12:24:42 but there's no numeric output so that doesn't make too much sense 12:24:58 you need another memory other than the stack 12:25:19 right now this is a PushDownAutomatorn 12:25:52 hrm 12:25:54 (a rotate-stack instruction could also work) 12:26:03 yeah 12:26:07 rotate-stack would work 12:27:40 maybe HELP can rotate the entire stack by 1 12:48:31 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 12:54:53 That would indeed give a lot of help. 12:56:02 -!- Wright has joined. 12:58:10 Looking at the test programs, you might want to rename I to OH, and WITH to MAN. 13:15:10 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:17:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:34:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:36:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:44:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:54:02 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:10:46 -!- TodPunk has joined. 14:11:08 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:11:25 -!- TodPunk has joined. 14:11:40 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:15:43 -!- TodPunk has joined. 14:15:55 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:16:20 -!- grotewold has joined. 14:17:33 -!- TodPunk has joined. 14:26:00 Is there a VB.NET Parser in Haskell? 14:27:41 -!- x10A94 has quit (Quit: I'm outta here). 14:40:40 I could do something horrific 14:40:44 like compiling Lisp to VBS! 14:40:46 or VBA 14:40:55 Where's your fungod now! 14:46:20 Prelude Data.RLON> validateAgainst "main ::= (def #NAME [(args {#NAME})])" "(def main)" 14:46:24 False 14:46:27 crap. My RLON validator has a bug? 14:47:37 Visual Basic isn't as bad as PHP. 14:48:19 Visual basic has consistency, even if it's the consistency of vomit 14:49:13 *Data.RLON> validateAgainst "main ::= (def #NAME {(args {#NAME})})" "(def main)" 14:49:16 False 14:49:21 this should be True as well o_O 14:51:26 hm 14:51:38 https://github.engineering.zhaw.ch/munt/RLON/blob/master/src/Data/RLON.hs#L63 14:51:42 looks like that is the issue 14:58:01 hm yeah 14:58:06 v:vs probably does not match empty lists 15:04:06 matches_t m (RLON_T_Object key ((RLON_T_Optional a):vs)) (RLON_Object key' []) = True should fix that 15:09:44 fu 15:09:46 it's too buggy :( 15:12:21 {[$arg]} and [{$arg}] aren't really working 15:13:34 makes sense 15:13:45 [{$arg}] and {[$arg]} are the same thing as {$arg} anyway 15:17:09 http://codepad.org/fYyWA8kr <- ok that works now 15:17:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:17:59 except 'exp' will also match invalid ifs 15:17:59 damn 15:19:11 ok my validation language isn't powerful enough to check lisp programs :( 15:21:46 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:23:05 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:34:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:39:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:40:25 `? füngöt 15:40:33 Füngöt is the French pronunciation of fungot. 15:41:17 `` run sed -i 's/French/German/' wisdom/füngöt 15:41:18 run run run 15:41:25 `` sed -i 's/French/German/' wisdom/füngöt 15:41:31 No output. 15:41:46 mroman: please show some linguistic plausibility twh 15:44:10 -!- Wright has joined. 15:58:38 * oerjan learns that each ghci line with a declaration is its own module 15:59:00 named GhciN where N is the line number 16:01:29 each line of output is also its own module, named GhcouT 16:01:54 * oerjan skeptical 16:02:01 ... 16:02:29 * oerjan pats his swatter. "This is below your dignity." 16:02:49 i did not realize it was possible to stoop so low 16:02:56 now you do 16:03:17 swat of the FireFly, governor? 16:04:38 btw here's how to see it: data A = A\nlet x = A\ndata A = A\n:t x 16:05:59 * oerjan was of course testing if there were any other way to confuse ghci about the identity of entities, or their TypeReps. looks pretty safe so far. 16:06:32 oerjan: by the way someone else made a different version of the bf thing 16:06:38 http://lpaste.net/138141 16:06:41 ghci lines and loaded (non-package) modules get thrown into package interactive and main, respectively. 16:08:29 i suppose this is all written somewhere. 16:09:11 shachaf: that doth look simpler 16:10:07 thou dost look simpler hth 16:12:16 it cleaned the code up as surely as i clean windows, and boily doth wisdom.pdf, and thou dost dust 16:12:50 hm that's with the (loop' ...) syntax rather than loop (...) 16:13:13 oh hm 16:13:31 shachaf: i think that has the [[]+] problem 16:13:45 or wait 16:14:04 []+ problem 16:14:22 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:15:09 does it? 16:15:22 time to test 16:16:21 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 16:17:29 what _is_ with people pasting code and leaving out all the pragmas 16:17:37 (answer: pure evil) 16:17:54 -!- aretecode has joined. 16:18:24 https://gist.github.com/TieSoul/3b123c4ec05a95dd4b09 I have now included the interpreter, made sure to use bad programming conventions while programming it. 16:18:28 AND TABS TOO 16:18:40 also swapped OH with AM and MAN with WITH 16:19:42 *Main> run $ loop' plus 16:19:42 "[+]" 16:20:04 shachaf: now how do you get []+ 16:20:15 for those unaware this is based on http://www.reddit.com/r/ooer 16:20:46 on the bright side, it should only break at the top level 16:22:11 now to try again for a hello world program lol 16:26:07 -!- rg_ has joined. 16:29:13 oerjan: oh, that 16:41:23 AAAAA boily's chickens are turning japanese 16:48:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:48:18 idea: create a C++ object called _ such that you can take a bf program, place _ all over it, and prepend #include "bf.hpp" and it will comile and run 16:49:01 [+] becomes _[_+_] 16:51:08 -!- heroux has joined. 16:52:11 [-]+++[>++<+] becomes _[_-_]_+++_[_>_++_<_+_] 16:52:49 (or any other series like that that fits c++ grammar) 17:00:01 -!- mihow has joined. 17:07:59 I don't think _++_ is lega? 17:08:01 legal 17:08:13 ohw ait 17:08:16 unary + 17:08:19 never mind 17:08:21 I know there is a C++ template version of brainfuck 17:15:05 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Iisu * New user account 17:19:54 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:37:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:39:54 -!- heroux has joined. 17:49:59 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:58:00 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 17:58:41 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 18:02:46 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:10:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:19:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:23:39 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:28:54 -!- evalj has joined. 18:29:46 -!- grotewold has joined. 18:52:36 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:53:23 -!- gde33 has joined. 18:54:10 -!- heroux has joined. 18:56:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:01:10 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:02:23 -!- heroux has joined. 19:05:13 `perl -emy$f=1103515245;my$t=12345;my$s=17;for my$k(0..9){ print+((($s>>16)&((1<<15)-1))),", "; $s=(($s*$f+$t)&((1<<32)-1)); } 19:05:23 HackEgo? 19:05:37 0, 24107, 16552, 12125, 9427, 13152, 21440, 3383, 6873, 16117, 19:07:11 thansk 19:08:14 b_jonas: is that the example implementation of rand() in the C standard, but translated to Perl? 19:09:18 ais523: a random generator, I don't know if it's the one in the C standard or not, but it's the linear congruence random generator used in ICFP 2015, and the seed and output sequence given in the specs so you can verify your implementation of it. 19:09:39 b_jonas: I think it's the one in the C standard 19:09:46 also, when is ICFP 2015? has it already happened? 19:09:54 I'm not in a mood to participate but I'm curious about what the challenge is 19:10:21 ais523: http://icfpcontest.org/ 19:10:26 happening right now 19:10:31 huh, they have their own website now? 19:10:38 they used to use random pages on universities' servers 19:10:58 ais523: yes, it's indeed a well-known random generator sequence, called gsl_rng_rand in libgsl, and let me check if the C++ standard or boost has it too 19:11:04 hmm, started 8 hours ago 19:11:38 ais523: they have had that domain name for a few years now, which is sad, because it means last year's website isn't accessible now, and for three years they haven't bothered to link to the websites of previous years' contests 19:11:52 :-( 19:12:08 I have links for the 2013 and 2012 contests, and to a list of the previous ones, though some of the older ones' websites are not accessible anymore 19:12:12 I don't have them archived though 19:12:31 http://icfpc2013.cloudapp.net/ , http://icfpcontest2012.wordpress.com/ , http://icfpcontest2012.wordpress.com/previous-contests/ 19:13:11 ais523: also, on freenode, at least #icfp-contest and #haskell-blah has some discussion about the contest 19:17:39 nope, C++ standard doesn't have that particular random generator predefined, and in fact, std::linear_congruential_engine can't even be parametrized in a way that it gives exactly that 19:17:44 (I think) 19:21:34 I think the C++ standard and boost doesn't have an implementation for this particular rng, only gsl does, but of course you can implement it in like one short line (shorter than what I gave above, that one has way too many parenthesis and operations) 19:22:38 this sounds like a golf contest 19:22:44 although some joker would probably win it just by using rand() 19:22:56 ais523: um... what? 19:23:02 oh 19:23:34 anyway, ICFP 2004 has used a similar linear congruence generator in the specs, but not exactly this one 19:25:26 they use one that might be using a multiplier origianl to them 19:25:48 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 19:26:23 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 19:29:44 -!- grotewold has joined. 19:30:03 `perl -emy$f=22695477;my$t=1;my$s=12345;for my$k(0..39){ 3<$k and print $s>>16&(1<<14)-1,", "; $s= $s*$f+$t&(1<<32)-1; } # ICFP 2004 random generator 19:30:08 7193, 2932, 10386, 5575, 100, 15976, 430, 9740, 9449, 1636, 11030, 9848, 13965, 16051, 14483, 6708, 5184, 15931, 7014, 461, 11371, 5856, 2136, 9139, 1684, 15900, 10236, 13297, 1364, 6876, 15687, 14127, 11387, 13469, 11860, 15589, 19:30:43 and no, not original to them, it's the generator used in the borland C compiler library 19:31:34 see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator#Parameters_in_common_use which lists both of these 19:40:23 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 19:40:58 are there any esolangs in clojure or rust besides brainfuck implementations yet? 19:49:36 -!- quietello has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:51:11 -!- quietello has joined. 19:52:17 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:53:50 J_A_Work: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Rust 19:54:56 well, deadfish ... 19:55:06 deadfish doesn't really count 19:55:43 make an implementation of eodermdrome 20:00:06 -!- rg_ has joined. 20:00:22 Make in implementation of Eodermdrome in Rust's macro system 20:14:03 i thought about doing some kind of really irritating stack based language 20:14:45 like forth? :P 20:15:05 Or FALSE, or Underload... 20:15:12 -!- mihow has joined. 20:19:03 why not funciton? 20:23:14 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 20:26:30 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:27:18 -!- rg_ has joined. 20:35:12 Taneb: flying to new york today 20:35:21 Taneb: can i expect to find any haskell compilers 20:35:30 shachaf, you've misunderstood the name 20:35:40 It's the New (York Haskell Compiler) 20:36:14 Oh, I thought it was a compiler that compiled New (York Haskell) 20:37:05 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:37:12 -!- E7D4A1B8 has joined. 20:39:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZZZ). 20:40:14 -!- E7D4A1B8 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:40:59 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 20:41:22 -!- E7D4A1B8 has joined. 20:42:53 That is a common misunderstanding 20:43:32 wait what? wasn't it compiled in Glasgow? 20:43:38 I thought it compiled "New Haskell", and the York was an infix operator. 20:43:45 (Not really.) 20:44:36 hizzie 20:46:31 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:47:40 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 20:48:13 Aearnus_: that was so gonna be my joke but then i got distracted. 20:48:40 :P 20:58:07 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 21:00:12 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 21:01:19 ais523: it turns out a regular haskeller you might have seen in #haskell is an organizer of ICFP 2015, just like how dcoutts was last year. 21:01:27 ais523: we just didn't know that because he was sleeping or something 21:01:35 b_jonas: I hardly ever visit #haskell 21:01:47 believe it or not, being in #esoteric doesn't automatically make you a Haskell fanatic :-) 21:02:01 ais523: I'm not a fanatic either. but I know you visit multiple channels, so you may have seen him. 21:02:07 given that I use OCaml for my day job, I may be contractually obliged to frame-war you now? 21:02:10 And if you haven't, other people here may have. 21:02:10 Who? 21:02:28 ais523: what? I don't have to be a fanatic of haskell to join the channel 21:02:39 shachaf: join #icfp-contest and find out 21:02:56 I'm not going to be able to participate in the contest. 21:03:11 shachaf: you don't have to participate the contest to join a channel 21:03:11 I'll be flying to New York when it starts. 21:03:24 shachaf: it's already started 21:04:13 and I'm going to be on vacation in Sweden when it ends, flying during the contest 21:04:23 have a pleasant journey 21:05:03 b_jonas: Joining the channel hasn't answered my question. 21:05:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:05:31 shachaf, it was ME! (it was not me) 21:05:49 shachaf: the four nicks starting with galois_ (plus galois_yav who is quit now) are organizers 21:06:06 Ah. 21:06:12 Why not just say so? 21:07:30 -!- heroux has joined. 21:08:12 b_jonas: Oh, one of the galois_ folks is an impostor. 21:08:13 Maybe next year I will not accidentally be doing other things during ICFP contest 21:08:21 Not non-Galois, but non-organizer. 21:08:26 shachaf: no, though it's hard to tell 21:08:27 https://twitter.com/ICFPContest2015/status/629719239381811201 21:08:46 shachaf: I asked, and another organizer confirmed him as an organizer in irc 21:08:50 but yes, it's confusing 21:08:54 they should put that to their homepage 21:12:40 Oh! The ICFP contest homepage now says “The unpredictability of the eldritch forces involved makes it impossible for us to provide precise information on time and memory resource availability during the time of final judgement. However, we can guarantee that sufficient resources will be available to accommodate the overhead of any earthly programming language or runtime system.” 21:12:46 that sounds like a challenge for esolangers 21:13:06 i feel like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Diplomacy#Backstabbr doesn't quite live up to the usual wikipedia standards 21:13:08 do you guys have an implemented earthly esolang runtime system with LOTS of resource requirement? 21:13:30 "purely a product of passion"? 21:13:39 shachaf: you can always remove it and see if anyone puts it back 21:14:05 I think it's reasonable for the entry to exist, but it's phrased in a very biased way. 21:14:13 I'm not good at Wikipedia phrasing, though. 21:14:19 I mean, not the kind that needs a second to just start up, because the bytecode loader that loads the library is so big, nor like Java which requires tons of memory because it doesn't share anything between processes; but something that REALLY requires lots of resources. 21:14:21 But I guess I should clarify that I wasn't asking anyone else to fix it. 21:22:57 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:23:40 -!- heroux has joined. 21:27:31 -!- a21 has joined. 21:33:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:44:51 -!- rg_ has joined. 21:48:38 -!- heroux has joined. 22:05:29 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:06:17 -!- heroux has joined. 22:17:05 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:20:38 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 22:20:48 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: thunderstorm). 22:33:26 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:40:12 -!- Wright_ has joined. 22:42:51 -!- oren_ has joined. 22:43:50 -!- heroux_ has joined. 22:46:55 -!- tromp has joined. 22:48:53 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:49:11 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 22:49:11 -!- Wright has quit (*.net *.split). 22:49:11 -!- oren has quit (*.net *.split). 22:49:11 -!- a21 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:49:17 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 22:58:52 -!- a21 has joined. 22:59:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:15:25 -!- gde33 has left. 23:15:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:33:24 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:33:41 -!- a21 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 23:46:16 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:50:40 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:51:39 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:47 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:59:12 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:59:30 -!- tromp has joined. 2015-08-08: 00:00:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:02:15 -!- tromp has joined. 00:19:48 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:21:10 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:21:49 -!- heroux has joined. 00:27:42 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:37:45 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:49:11 -!- gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:04:39 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:20:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:22:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:24:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:26:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:38:20 -!- tromp has joined. 01:42:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:44:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:09 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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07:08:31 No. 07:13:04 I am on, do you have any questions or complaints please? 07:13:41 hiya hppavilion[1] 07:13:54 Hellu 07:14:03 Unary * and / 07:14:09 someone needs to make that happen 07:14:17 that do? 07:14:24 would / be reciprocal or something? 07:14:53 IDK 07:15:05 Maybe they'd be for imaginary numbers? 07:17:24 Can I complain about Perl6's questionable decision to have truthy/falsey non-Bool items in 'when' and other implicitly smartmatched places to be likely to do the wrong thing? 07:19:25 You can 07:19:28 Do you want to? 07:19:36 perl6 as a whole is a questionable decision 07:19:52 Aearnus_, how so? 07:20:49 there's just no point 07:20:56 perl5 is a good enough language itself 07:21:12 it's like the transition from python2 -> python3 but without the incentive of moving to python3 07:21:40 I can't stand looking at Perl5 but Perl6 fascinates me 07:21:55 it's definitely nice as a standalone langauge 07:22:02 but it's no successor to perl5 07:22:10 No. It's a completely different language. 07:22:19 Well, "completely". 07:36:07 [wiki] [[Talk:ZOWIE]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43704&oldid=34572 * Rdebath * (+856) /* Turing completeness */ new section 07:46:00 [wiki] [[Brainfuck constants/Crunchfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43705&oldid=33103 * Rdebath * (+14307) Finalise. 08:02:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:03:31 -!- heroux has joined. 08:04:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:05:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:28:47 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:40:15 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:41:25 -!- nortti has joined. 09:48:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:50:26 -!- heroux has joined. 10:04:27 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: My microwave oven blew the fuse). 10:16:20 -!- Froox has joined. 10:17:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:19:45 -!- quietello has joined. 10:36:11 -!- boily has joined. 10:37:34 @tell oerjan ヘロリュアン 10:37:34 Consider it noted. 10:40:47 hmm... 10:47:37 b_jellonas. 10:48:06 I may not be exactly at maximum mental abilities. it will get worse during the day. 10:48:18 no alcohol is involved, only a convention. 10:48:39 http://www.otakuthon.com/2015/home/ 10:49:30 oh, there's an anime convention too? 10:49:41 I guess it's summer and convention session 10:50:18 in here the Sziget fesztivál is about to start, just when I leave for vacation 10:50:45 so I think I'll leave lots of people arriving on the airport when I'm leaving 10:50:50 there might be lots of chaos 10:51:41 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:53:33 -!- heroux has joined. 10:54:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:58:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:59:22 -!- heroux has joined. 11:03:39 This year I did not go to anime convention but maybe next year I might 11:04:29 there's also apparently a My Little Pony convention going on right now in US-MD 11:08:31 hezzo38. 11:15:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:26:13 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 11:31:08 -!- heroux has joined. 11:42:13 zzo38: Are you going to ICFP? 11:45:03 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:46:32 `` culprits wisdom/maur 11:46:40 No output. 11:46:45 ...? 11:46:51 say what? 11:48:05 oh. missing two letters. nothing wrong here. 11:49:35 shachaf: I haven't registered; is that necessary? 11:57:31 zzo38: Yes, and there's a fee. 12:05:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:07:49 -!- heroux has joined. 12:14:16 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 12:19:46 `wisdom idris 12:19:49 find: `wisdom/*idris*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory 12:20:00 `? idris 12:20:03 idris? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:20:13 (Whoops, got confused about the commands.) 12:20:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: 怖い鶏). 12:28:08 [wiki] [[InDec]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43706&oldid=38237 * Rdebath * (-29) Language is not Turing complete as there is no way to add memory (eg: tape, stack, linked lists or arrays) 12:32:57 [wiki] [[ZeptoBasic]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43707&oldid=35145 * Rdebath * (+29) Add TC category 12:35:11 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:46:40 Oh, an important question, 12:46:57 can you point me to a good description of how to make and work with partial clones in git? 12:47:29 It's supposed to be possible, but the git high-level interfaces are crazy, and I have trouble with even simpler commands than this. 12:47:58 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:02:15 -!- Wright has joined. 13:13:36 -!- rg_ has joined. 13:17:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:36:34 Heveryllone. 13:37:22 -!- tromp has joined. 13:44:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:47:41 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:52:40 -!- E7D4A1B8 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:53:01 -!- E7D4A1B8 has joined. 13:56:00 hmm, everalone 14:03:33 Please, fungot, sing to me a song 14:03:34 Jafet: that is, if the jump is not the problem :p 14:03:57 -!- |f`-`|f_ has joined. 14:05:02 The char-rnn code seems to be quite delicate. One training pass can increase the validation error from 2 to 50. 14:05:59 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:06:06 -!- |f`-`|f_ has changed nick to |f`-`|f. 14:09:26 -!- Wright_ has joined. 14:10:38 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:13:04 -!- E7D4A1B8 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:15:51 -!- Wright has joined. 14:18:13 -!- Wright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:24:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:30:00 -!- vodkode has joined. 14:38:45 -!- rg_ has joined. 14:41:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:42:23 -!- rg_ has quit (Client Quit). 14:43:04 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:43:33 -!- heroux has joined. 14:50:06 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:51:16 -!- heroux has joined. 14:51:25 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:00:17 -!- milky has joined. 15:06:00 -!- llue has joined. 15:08:57 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:14:23 -!- milky has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"). 15:15:50 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:17:46 -!- heroux has joined. 15:21:11 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:24:08 -!- gonad has joined. 15:30:43 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:31:12 -!- lambdabot has joined. 15:37:19 -!- grotewold has joined. 15:57:55 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 16:02:24 -!- rg_ has joined. 16:12:01 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:25:25 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:27:16 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:31:24 -!- lambdabot has joined. 16:37:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:37:23 -!- rg_ has joined. 16:37:29 @messages- 16:37:29 boily said 5h 59m 54s ago: ヘロリュアン 16:39:50 -!- maarten_ has joined. 16:50:45 "Thus we" 16:50:46 steal a technique from Shachaf and Edward Kmett and adapt it to the current 16:50:48 (rather clean) setting. 16:50:58 stupid irssi paste 16:52:17 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:59:44 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:06:31 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:08:37 wtf is github running a ridiculously heavy script when i'm trying to browse sources 17:09:53 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:12:17 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:12:23 -!- rg__ has joined. 17:14:07 -!- rg__ has quit (Client Quit). 17:18:14 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:36:43 -!- maarten_ has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it). 17:53:12 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:57:25 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:59:29 -!- heroux has joined. 18:09:47 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 18:25:04 oerjan: help what are you stealing 18:28:54 shachaf: the #. operator hth 18:29:15 technically, ghc stole it 18:30:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:30:30 https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/7.10.2/docs/html/libraries/base-4.8.1.0/src/Data-Foldable.html#line-447 18:32:07 -!- heroux has joined. 18:34:47 -!- rdococ has joined. 18:39:55 -!- rg_ has joined. 18:40:47 -!- rdococ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:50:39 -!- rdococ has joined. 18:52:43 oerjan: ah yeah 18:57:28 edwardk: btw is there some reason why ghc can't have rank n constraints? 18:57:36 or rank 2, at least 18:59:12 oh found an SO question i hadn't seen about it 18:59:18 -!- grotewold has joined. 19:02:37 (which you've answered, naturally) 19:05:35 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: welp, see you later.). 19:12:41 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:26:58 infixl 1 \\ -- required comment 19:27:09 is that only required because the module uses CPP? 19:27:29 and so the final \ might be confused with line continuation 19:28:29 -!- variable has joined. 19:28:37 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/constraints-0.4.1.3/docs/src/Data-Constraint.html#%5C%5C 19:32:06 CPP definitely triggers an error without it... 19:36:34 oerjan that is exactly why it is required =) 19:54:41 edwardk: why in the world did they make it so you can deduce () has the kind Constraint without doing the same for (,) ... 19:55:27 oerjan, because (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint! Not Constraint! :P 19:55:40 * oerjan swats Taneb -----### 19:56:02 I had that coming 19:56:07 yep 19:56:30 there's an obvious answer, but it's not a good one. 19:56:53 (there are no constraint arguments in (), so they couldn't use the same hack) 20:00:37 Yay now I have two websites I am not using 20:05:40 I wonder what lens-like stuff can be replicated in Perl6 and what can't 20:06:26 Perl 6 has Proxies which when bound to a variable can change the meaning of assignment to and reading from that variable. Currently it seems to be FETCH/STORE, so I don't think a Setter can be made 20:07:16 Perl 6 method call syntax does not rely on the invocant actually knowing about the called method, e.g. $foo.&say will call the say function that is in scope on $foo 20:07:36 (WHereas $foo.say would look up say in terms of what $foo can do, or something) 20:09:39 oerjan: sigh, i wish that person would stop interacting with me 20:10:22 * shachaf is in maximum grouch mode 20:31:10 /ignore ? 20:32:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:32:51 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:35:44 if only 20:39:00 -!- rg_ has joined. 20:42:56 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:45:42 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:45:48 -!- rg__ has joined. 20:46:40 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:47:48 @tell edwardk instance {-# OVERLAPPING #-} (f (Eq()) (Eq()) ~ (Eq(),Eq())) => Test f -- 20:47:48 Consider it noted. 20:47:56 oops 20:48:27 he narrowly avoided a hth there 20:48:29 -!- heroux has joined. 20:49:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:49:21 How lucky 20:49:58 that's the best way i've thought of to define an instance for it 20:50:18 i think it might even work, sort of 20:51:24 (well it worked in a trivial test) 20:52:33 @tell edwardk oops, * {-# OVERLAPPABLE #-} 20:52:33 Consider it noted. 20:57:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:58:20 -!- heroux has joined. 21:05:00 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:13:02 -!- heroux has joined. 21:35:18 -!- rg__ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:37:05 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:42:08 -!- gonad has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 21:42:29 -!- lleu has joined. 21:42:29 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 21:42:29 -!- lleu has joined. 21:42:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: NNNN). 21:49:45 -!- tromp has joined. 21:54:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:03:40 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 22:11:57 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:16:15 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:16:42 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 22:21:48 oerjan: i mentioned the superkind tricks for fixing (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint right? 22:22:33 sadly given that it interacts weirdly with things like eisenberg's efforts to get us dependent types i don't see it happening 22:25:34 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:25:55 -!- vodkode has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:27:17 -!- heroux has joined. 22:31:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:31:41 [wiki] [[Ultimate Programming Language to Take Over a Prison, Then He World]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43708 * Iisu * (+2922) Language overview 22:34:33 [wiki] [[Ultimate Programming Language to Take Over a Prison, Then He World]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43709&oldid=43708 * Iisu * (-52) 22:34:46 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:35:59 -!- heroux has joined. 23:05:34 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:05:55 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:06:38 -!- milky has joined. 23:06:40 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:07:38 -!- milky has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"). 23:08:37 -!- heroux has joined. 23:11:24 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 23:18:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:20:41 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:21:19 -!- heroux has joined. 23:24:39 [wiki] [[Ultimate Programming Language to Take Over a Prison, Then He World]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43710&oldid=43709 * Iisu * (+9) 23:25:58 [wiki] [[Ultimate Programming Language to Take Over a Prison, Then He World]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43711&oldid=43710 * Iisu * (-9) Fixed logical error in the description of respect. 23:26:29 [wiki] [[Ultimate Programming Language to Take Over a Prison, Then He World]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43712&oldid=43711 * Iisu * (+9) 23:42:05 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:43:45 -!- heroux has joined. 2015-08-09: 00:04:00 -!- tromp has joined. 00:18:26 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:19:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:20:39 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:21:16 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:21:55 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:37:55 -!- tromp has joined. 00:52:38 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:53:00 -!- tromp has joined. 00:56:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:02:09 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:02:26 -!- Wright has joined. 01:08:03 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:08:41 -!- rg_ has joined. 01:19:59 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:24:44 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 01:25:22 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:30:14 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 02:02:40 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 02:09:33 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:20:43 -!- a21 has joined. 02:20:51 -!- tromp has joined. 02:25:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:26:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:49:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:50:56 -!- heroux has joined. 03:03:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:03:47 -!- heroux has joined. 03:28:20 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:30:25 -!- heroux has joined. 03:35:56 -!- tromp has joined. 03:45:39 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:46:27 -!- heroux has joined. 04:06:48 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:22:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:07:18 -!- tromp has joined. 05:11:25 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:14:51 How do I make a backslash in a .IP command in a man page? 05:44:40 \\ maybe? 05:51:32 -!- rg_ has joined. 05:58:04 I tried that and it does not work; I get a blank space 06:08:57 -!- tromp has joined. 06:13:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:25:11 https://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/3gakuy/if_the_answer_is_church_integer_42_which_lambda/ 06:31:24 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:45:54 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 06:57:02 -!- mihow has joined. 07:18:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:21:13 @tell edwardk oerjan: i mentioned the superkind tricks for fixing (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint right? <-- yes. but even with the current system, it should be possible to at least export a type synonym for it. 07:21:13 Consider it noted. 07:21:33 you can do that -- sorta 07:21:56 class (p,q) => p & q; instance (p,q) => p & q 07:22:09 now you can work with (&) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint 07:22:14 it can be partially applied, etc. 07:22:22 i mean one that you can actually make instances for (,) with, of course 07:24:30 (oh and that evil code i @told you earlier was a trick for making an instance that applies to just (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint) 07:25:09 you can't make the head right, but you can restrict it with the context 07:26:03 also, you can define a type that evaluates to exactly (,), but alas through a type family. 07:26:55 type family Hack (c :: Constraint) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint 07:27:08 type instance (f a b) = f 07:27:12 oops 07:27:24 * type instance Hack (f a b) = f 07:27:36 type C = Hack (Eq Int, Eq Int) 07:28:27 hm Hack ((),()) also works. 07:29:53 unfortunately, ghc makes no attempt to allow instances for type families, even fully applied. 07:40:30 sadly given that it interacts weirdly with things like eisenberg's efforts to get us dependent types i don't see it happening <-- the problem would be that it would make his * a compound kind expression? (i am thinking of conor mc bride's formulation that used two kind parameters to combine all of *, Constraint and #) 07:43:53 oh wait it was you, why did i think it was mcbride 07:44:47 i think my brain made a faulty ermine/epigram connection. 07:45:19 i think mostly because it complicates the story for kinds/sorts a great deal once you have * in * 07:45:43 since it'd be something like Sort T T in Sort T T -- or something like that 07:45:48 yeah 07:48:44 and because of DataKinds, there's nothing other than * that can be the end of the road like that 07:50:56 edwardk: i just had an evil idea. could you make Sort a type family? 07:51:24 sadly no, because you need the inference to flow back to the arguments 07:51:31 'injective type family' perhaps 07:51:50 you need f a ~ f b to imply a ~ b 07:53:54 [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43713&oldid=43211 * Rdebath * (+11) /* Current Languages to go back to. */ 07:56:19 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 08:08:49 -!- tromp has joined. 08:13:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:29:26 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:29:46 -!- lleu has joined. 08:29:46 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 08:29:46 -!- lleu has joined. 08:31:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 08:31:51 I HAVE COME UP WITH 08:32:05 A THING 08:32:19 AYEEEH 08:32:57 It may have been done before 08:33:06 I'm calling it "Non-specific assignment" 08:34:16 Basically, it's derived from math 08:34:29 I'm putting it in the retroactive category of "Esoteric Computer Science" 08:34:43 Bascially, we have x := 5 08:34:56 I'm suggesting adding: 08:35:00 x :< 5 08:35:04 x :> 5 08:35:07 x :!= 5 08:35:11 x :<= 5 08:35:16 x :>= 5 08:35:42 ic 08:35:56 I know 08:36:03 Also, augmented versions 08:36:04 Of course 08:36:24 I may have to write a computer program to generate parts of the article for me :P 08:36:38 Because the augmented operators include things like <<> 08:37:08 (Assign rhs to rhs to all values less than rhs << lhs) 08:37:20 I typed that wrong xD 08:38:13 Shall I create an article on it? 08:39:53 oerjan (referencing you because you appear to be the only one paying attention)? 08:41:54 Well 08:41:56 I'll go with yes 08:42:02 why not 08:42:13 There you are 08:42:36 I'm going to call it an "Esoteric Abstract Concept in Esoteric Programming" unless there's a better term 08:42:53 And I'm going to make a subpage containing an autogenerated table of EVERY SINGLE operator 08:43:17 erm... 08:43:24 For fun, of course 08:43:35 let's not go completely overboard with pages 08:44:07 It'd just be _one_ extra page 08:44:11 oh. 08:44:14 misread. 08:44:27 Sure, it wouldn't add much educational value because you can probably guess its contents :P 08:45:49 I don't think it'd be humanly possible to create a page for all of them with educational content 08:46:05 humanely impossible 08:46:20 Defintely that 08:48:47 hppavilion[1]: you can't easily create a page for each operator, because if you try to put the spelling of the operator in the title, you often get an invalid title for mediawiki 08:49:14 Yeah 08:49:36 Which is why I'm just going to create one subpage with an auto-generated table 08:50:12 I'm going to make a program to generate a list of string tuples containing operators and an autogenerated description 08:50:24 Then run a program with a for loop to convert that to a table 08:50:42 Then paste that table into a GUI for easy copying 08:58:19 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 08:59:10 [wiki] [[Iag]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43714&oldid=31799 * Rdebath * (+34) /* External resources */ 09:00:49 [wiki] [[Non-Specific Assignment]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43715 * Hppavilion1 * (+1701) Created Page 09:01:01 Created that page for now 09:01:05 Will work more on it later 09:01:37 [wiki] [[Non-Specific Assignment]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43716&oldid=43715 * Hppavilion1 * (+3) Added colons 09:13:45 -!- Aearnus_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:17:27 -!- Skin has joined. 09:17:35 -!- Skin has changed nick to Walpurgisnacht. 09:17:47 -!- Walpurgisnacht has changed nick to walpurgisnacht. 09:28:31 Hellu 09:43:34 -!- rdococ has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 09:57:51 -!- walpurgisnacht has quit (Quit: mmmm). 09:59:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 10:04:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:13:06 -!- evalj has joined. 10:23:37 https://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/comments/3gakuy/if_the_answer_is_church_integer_42_which_lambda/ <-- that prose is harder to understand than unlambda itself... 10:23:46 * oerjan may be biased 10:24:55 Isn't there a list of short Church integers somewhere anyway 10:26:09 probably 10:26:21 I remember making one for combinators 10:32:33 there *was* /r/esolangs?! 10:32:42 still is 10:32:45 * lifthrasiir subscribes 10:33:13 it's not very active, but occasionally. 10:40:04 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19940612/Church%206.txt 10:40:15 Pretty hard to condense them when they are not powers of 2 10:40:35 `m`m``sbi is quite nice 10:40:44 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: m`m``sbi: not found 10:45:45 oh hm 10:45:47 -!- boily has joined. 10:48:07 (\6 f x.(\6.6(6 f)(6 f x)))(\f x.f(f(f(f(f(f x)))))) 10:48:55 hellørjan! 10:49:07 boheily 10:50:08 I should tidy up the page on Lazy Bird 10:50:12 A lot of links are dead 10:55:09 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 11:01:33 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:18:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 11:31:54 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 11:37:14 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:40:34 -!- llue has joined. 11:43:45 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:46:34 -!- tromp has joined. 11:50:46 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:51:27 -!- avonis has joined. 12:03:35 -!- avonis has left ("Leaving"). 12:03:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:07:38 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:17:12 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:20:18 -!- lleu has joined. 12:20:18 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 12:20:18 -!- lleu has joined. 12:39:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: いつも鶏). 12:47:19 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 12:49:50 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:54:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:07:52 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:25:00 -!- getpwnam has joined. 13:32:09 -!- tromp has joined. 13:45:37 -!- getpwnam has quit. 13:46:50 -!- getpwnam has joined. 14:00:37 -!- rdococ has joined. 14:05:20 -!- rdococ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:14:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:17:16 -!- tromp has joined. 14:20:33 [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43717&oldid=14360 * Rdebath * (+708) Hello World! 14:21:37 -!- rg_ has joined. 14:25:20 -!- getpwnam has quit (Changing host). 14:25:20 -!- getpwnam has joined. 14:44:47 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:53:12 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 14:53:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:06:22 -!- tromp has joined. 15:14:43 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:19:33 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:25:56 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 15:31:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:31:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:31:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:46:13 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:43 -!- Wright has joined. 15:52:21 -!- tromp has joined. 15:55:25 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:59:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:07:59 -!- getpwnam has quit. 16:26:10 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:32:50 -!- Aearnus_ has joined. 16:36:11 -!- tromp has joined. 16:49:34 -!- getpwnam has joined. 17:06:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:08:52 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:10:29 -!- tromp has joined. 17:12:44 -!- evalj has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:15:40 [wiki] [[Nest]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43718&oldid=40221 * 75.36.136.61 * (-1) /* Orthostructs */ 17:17:01 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:23:32 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:26:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 17:37:42 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:50:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:51:03 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:51:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:03:29 -!- _256Q has joined. 18:03:44 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 18:03:44 -!- _256Q has joined. 18:04:17 if i weren't so lazy, i should make the worst lens package ever and call it pestilens 18:06:03 oerjan: did you see lens issue 552 18:06:38 i don't have lens issues on my daily web schedule, so probably not 18:06:40 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:07:21 you missed out on a class-E scow hth 18:07:32 oerjan: nice 18:07:50 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 18:10:59 shachaf: wait how does your scow class system work 18:12:38 tell me when you find out 18:16:15 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:21:41 classification of finite simple scows 18:29:52 shachaf: i have so far deduced the classes Dumb, E, Fnord, Zalgo and HTH 18:30:13 i hope this clears things up 18:30:55 those are in order from lousy to worst hth 18:34:00 Within minutes, gentleman scholar and help expert oerjan correctly identified the class of hth scows, the scow of scows. 18:48:48 That's a scow scow. 18:53:58 scow is an anagram of cows 18:54:02 `quote cows 18:54:11 400) Look, I often walk my dog through a field with cows in it. And I punched myself in the face once. \ 988) metar lead to canada, more metar and cows \ 994) man at least job applications in biosciences are just like "you are willing to put your arms through a cow" Bike: please send us a link to your CowHub profile o 19:12:31 -!- tromp has joined. 19:17:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:22:43 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:23:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:23:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:23:28 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:53:11 -!- lleu has joined. 19:53:11 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 19:53:11 -!- lleu has joined. 20:05:08 edwardk: hi i managed to write unsafeCoerce with Data.Constraint.Forallin in Safe mode hth 20:05:25 wth did my terminal just do 20:05:44 well damn. 20:05:57 how? 20:06:40 -!- mihow has joined. 20:07:11 http://lpaste.net/138354 20:09:19 basically i derived a contradiction from Forall's assumption that there are only two types in the universe... 20:12:24 come to think of it i didn't need ConstraintKinds enabled, i just assumed it from the outset. 20:21:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:21:27 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 20:23:45 -!- Aearnus_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:24:18 -!- tromp has joined. 20:29:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:43:48 -!- Aearnus_ has joined. 20:59:15 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 21:10:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:14:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:27:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 21:27:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:44:46 -!- GoToTell has joined. 22:04:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:23:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:25:03 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:25:15 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:25:38 -!- lleu has joined. 22:52:19 -!- shayra has joined. 22:52:27 -!- lemurian has joined. 22:55:57 -!- shayra has left. 23:00:01 oerjan: now i'm confused hth 23:21:57 oerjan: about scow classes, i mean 23:22:43 but edwardk doesn't see messages in this channel unless you mention his name or lens or a few other things 23:22:50 =P 23:22:52 pretty much 23:23:26 The Forall thing looks interesting, will look when I'm back at a computer. 23:24:18 oerjan: interesting 23:25:24 https://github.com/ekmett/constraints/issues/10 23:31:12 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...). 23:34:39 -!- tromp has joined. 2015-08-10: 00:00:31 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:09:43 Can other programs that use Motif widgets and so on be changed to use Athena widgets? 00:10:02 I don't see why not, though perhaps not *easily*. 00:15:41 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:33:11 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:42:33 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:51:24 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:01:14 -!- bb010g has joined. 01:04:02 -!- llue has joined. 01:07:06 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:11:16 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 01:14:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:17:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:21:09 -!- impomatic_ has left. 01:22:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:25:44 -!- mihow has joined. 01:40:07 -!- monotone has quit (Quit: "I can hear myself... I think I'm a bit afraid."). 01:42:02 Oren Watson is back in Town! 01:42:21 -!- oren_ has changed nick to oren. 01:50:16 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:52:00 Is the category of scow finitely cocomplete? 01:52:44 I had an idea the other day. The (philosophical) "category of occurrents", where an "occurrent" is something with examples or instances. 01:53:09 Redness is an occurrent; there are examples and instances of redness. 01:53:56 Oh, and then a morphism is any "natural" way of mapping instances of one occurrent to instances of another occurrent. 01:54:10 "Natural" isn't explicitly defined. 02:03:11 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:15:40 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:23:45 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:24:36 -!- mihow has joined. 02:26:52 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:32:22 -!- lemurian has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 02:38:10 -!- kline has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:40:38 -!- kline has joined. 02:45:10 -!- a21 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 02:46:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:46:31 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 03:01:20 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 03:09:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 03:17:09 -!- lleu has joined. 03:17:09 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 03:17:09 -!- lleu has joined. 03:19:56 -!- llue has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:28:15 -!- mihow has joined. 03:51:45 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:51:56 -!- Wright has joined. 03:53:05 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:59:27 What should be a first sentence of a "level20.tex" story? Currently I have an "Introduction" chapter that starts with: After his disease of coughing has been cured, he suddenly disappeared and this resulted in a lot of events occuring (the ``butterfly effect''), as described in this text. But I am not sure if it should be better to delete everything before "It is now morning." 04:01:07 The first sentence cited has nothing to do with the story anyways; I was just trying to make the beginning a bit more strangely...? 04:01:45 Also the introduction is an actual chapter and I am not sure if it should be. 04:04:44 I am sure it is possible to do better with a lot of these thing, some of these paragraph could be fixed a bit to improved. One sentence already has been at someone else's suggestion 04:12:01 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 04:13:32 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:16:40 zzo38: Why is it called level20.tex? 04:17:37 Because it is from a Dungeons&Dragons game where we started as level 20 (and also with no possessions) and is typeset with TeX. 04:18:01 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 04:18:39 So it is just the filename I gave it. 04:18:54 -!- mihow has joined. 04:23:09 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 04:40:05 -!- MDream has joined. 04:40:52 -!- mihow has joined. 04:44:02 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:45:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:53:05 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:54:44 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:19:51 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 05:25:55 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 05:26:46 -!- rg_ has joined. 05:31:49 -!- zadock has joined. 05:47:21 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:50:11 -!- mihow has joined. 05:52:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:58:06 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:21:28 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 06:24:21 -!- zadock has joined. 06:40:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:41:19 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:53:16 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:20:13 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 08:35:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:39:14 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:48:52 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 08:53:45 -!- Aearnus_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:58:23 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:00:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:04:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:07:14 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:10:41 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:14:42 fnîrd 09:15:32 fnörður 09:28:53 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:37:45 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:51:06 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 09:58:11 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:59:24 -!- GoToTell has joined. 09:59:57 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 10:19:33 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:22:12 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 10:22:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 10:22:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:28:49 -!- boily has joined. 10:30:40 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:46:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:51:02 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 11:04:39 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:12:28 -!- x10A94 has joined. 11:18:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:22:45 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:24:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:24:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RETURN CHICKEN). 11:25:58 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:39:19 -!- lleu has joined. 12:11:42 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:26:52 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:32:14 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:03:17 [wiki] [[Pbrain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43719&oldid=40030 * 83.251.36.35 * (+2) It -> It's 13:18:00 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:18:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:25:45 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Stalem * New user account 13:31:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:50:44 -!- _256Q has joined. 13:50:44 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 13:50:44 -!- _256Q has joined. 13:51:08 wth is an oracle 13:52:52 also 13:53:04 there oughta be a lower bound 13:53:08 a machine that can't solve anything 13:53:20 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:53:43 What's the name for a machine that can't solve anything? 13:56:37 -!- nycs has joined. 13:59:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:02:23 Machine that's can't solve anything? "My Brain." 14:18:45 well 14:18:53 the human mind as a machine would be inherentely flawed 14:19:47 unless you can recreate mental illnesses in neuronal networks as well given some stimuli. 14:20:03 So would be the machine located at your lower bound. 14:20:15 the machine that can't do anything would be the lower bound 14:20:36 obviously 14:20:44 Is there a paradox in there? 14:22:31 I think it's impossible for a machine to metaphysically do nothing. 14:30:15 well 14:30:26 Let's say there's a decision problem D 14:30:50 and a machine D that either answers yes,no,can't solve 14:30:54 *M 14:31:04 the useless machine will always answer with can't solve ;D 14:33:28 just evaluate everything to _|_ 14:42:21 then there are the Las Vegas Machines 14:42:36 they either report yes,no or fail 14:43:20 Feed it it's own schematics and ask how it a machine built like that would respond if giving 'this' problem. 14:45:32 -!- rg_ has joined. 14:54:28 -!- Wright has joined. 14:56:25 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:02:55 -!- nycs has joined. 15:05:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:11:19 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:24:42 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 15:26:38 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:27:25 -!- rg_ has joined. 15:32:44 at http://www.madore.org/~david/programs/unlambda/ there is a passage that doesn't make sense to me 15:33:12 "^x^y`$x$y (i.e. i) and ^y^x`$y$x (i.e. ``s`k`sik)." 15:33:19 shouldn't both be i 15:33:50 i guess it was meant to be ^x^y`$y$x 15:38:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:39:13 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:39:49 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:56:12 -!- nycs has joined. 15:58:09 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:06:59 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:09:40 -!- rg_ has joined. 16:10:09 -!- Wright_ has joined. 16:10:57 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:13:16 -!- nortti has joined. 16:25:51 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:28:37 `olist 997 16:28:40 olist 997: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 16:41:30 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:46:53 -!- bb010g has joined. 16:51:52 -!- rg__ has joined. 16:54:30 -!- rg_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:59:56 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D). 17:02:11 Ooh boy. 17:02:25 whoa whoa whoa, you read olist? 17:04:52 ````s`k`sikxy = ` ```s `k`si k x y = ` `` `k`si x `k x y = `` ``k `si x `kxy = `` `si `kxy = ```s i `kx y = `` i y ` `kx y = ` `i y ``k x y = ` y x = `yx 17:04:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```s`k`sikxy: not found 17:05:02 Thank you, HackEgo. 17:05:14 `thanks HackEgo 17:05:18 Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo. 17:05:59 myname: so yeah, it should be ^x^y`$y$x 17:06:24 @type ap (const (ap it)) const 17:06:25 Not in scope: ‘it’ 17:06:25 Perhaps you meant one of these: 17:06:25 ‘id’ (imported from Data.Function), 17:06:29 @type ap (const (ap id)) const 17:06:30 b -> (b -> b1) -> b1 17:08:40 I should have just done that. 17:11:13 -!- mihow has joined. 17:11:15 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:17:28 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 17:27:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:28:59 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:43:02 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:52:09 edwardk: shachaf: i realized the "at most 2 elements in the universe" idea could be replaced by something much simpler http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/Forall/UC2.hs 17:52:34 oerjan: Did you see the bug edwardk linked to? 17:52:40 also, i definitely should start browsing githubs, i didn't know there were issues pointing out already 17:52:56 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:52:59 shachaf: i did, so the module is broken in at least two different ways 17:53:21 you school 'em, oerjan 17:53:35 but both amount to how even unexported data types leak too much information to be used as skolems 17:55:28 ah he's added another issue 17:55:50 ok, this is basically dead since the introduction of closed type families 17:56:16 edwardk: i _think_ the 2 for 3 version could be made without having them closed 17:56:23 the code was written before they existed 17:56:28 interesting 17:56:50 let me try it 17:56:57 well i always stated it ruled out the only obvious attack, now the problem is the less obvious attacks are mounting ;) 17:57:05 heh 17:57:28 i can still make a version that does reflectiony tricks, but that would preclude you being able to infer Forall Foo 17:57:55 the thing that kills it dead is Typeble though 17:58:37 https://github.com/ekmett/constraints/issues/10 17:58:54 -!- Xavo has joined. 17:59:04 that version requires almost nothing to execute the attack 18:00:00 only open family: http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/Forall/UC3.hs 18:00:45 !ztest test_123 (>)*9([-]>)*99 18:00:50 maybe? 18:00:52 maybe not? 18:00:57 edwardk: i don't think Typeable kills a reflectiony version, the Typeable instance generator can only give known types 18:01:10 oerjan: look closely at what is being generated there 18:01:24 its using the Typeable A and TYpeable B that get autogenerated 18:01:48 and then its able to cast because they'll agree on being 'A' 18:02:07 ...i assumed you wouldn't use A and B in a reflectiony version, but a made-up-of-thin-air type like reflection does? 18:02:09 because we just cast the dictionary 18:02:22 i just mean the current version 18:02:27 ah yes 18:02:29 this is a pretty effective attack on the current version 18:02:37 it gives you unsafeCoerce in about 5 lines of code 18:02:50 and needs no extensions 18:03:10 -!- Xavo has quit (Client Quit). 18:03:19 so i think this basically rules out all skolem based approaches 18:05:15 i was thinking whether it would be possible to use an impredicative type like forall a. C a => a 18:05:26 with an unexported class C 18:05:54 but i should assume that won't work well, like anything impredicative 18:06:30 oerjan: Why isn't this conversation in #-lens, anyway? 18:06:41 no lenses involved hth 18:06:53 tdnh 18:09:43 unexported classes are Typeable too 18:10:26 um sure, but i don't see the relevance... 18:11:11 the class is just to try and make sure the user cannot cast it to a known type 18:11:32 it was just an idea, anyway 18:11:58 i meant to replace A and B by such a type (or several if that helps...) 18:12:33 edwardk: ^ 18:12:45 any idea how to make that work? 18:13:23 well i haven't actually tried it... 18:14:06 i don't have any Forall-using programs to test, anyway. well except the exploit. 18:19:57 huh apparently that fails with no suggestion of repair when it gets to the Forall definition 18:21:01 edwardk: i guess even with ImpredicativeTypes, you're not allowed to apply a type variable to an impredicative type. alas. 18:24:19 https://github.com/ekmett/constraints/commit/522e9da30410898895f7d13194ea8ac50910a01c 18:32:10 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 18:41:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 18:42:23 `quote scow 18:42:24 No output. 18:42:43 I've heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something 18:43:50 `addquote I've heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something 18:43:53 1252) I've heard that scow is oerjanspeak for something 18:44:25 what complete hogwash 18:44:59 hogwash, is that scow? 18:45:11 shachaf: i'll sue you for libel by proxy hth 18:46:53 but first i'll have to sue microsoft and asus for nagging me about the same thing twice 18:47:01 after i've refused 18:47:26 did they nag together twice, once each, or in total four times? 18:47:40 total four 18:47:56 that's a lot of nagging 18:48:11 or well, microsoft seems to want me to enable its spyware^Wsmartscreen 18:48:29 and asus refuses to remember my touchpad settings. 18:48:54 come to think of it, it used to forget them before, until i gently kicked it 18:51:33 oh well, it seems to have settled down. while waking up from suspend is faster, actual reboot is annoyingly slow. 18:57:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:00:04 Ah, smartscreen 19:00:34 When upgrading to WX, I actually did custom settings and disabled all tracking 19:00:48 me too 19:00:59 And I've told my mom she isn't allowed to install windows 10 on her own, because I'm going to disable them for her, too 19:01:13 Unfortunately, her computer won't install updates for some reason 19:01:31 ais523: I know you're not on `olist, but did you see the new olist? 19:01:42 depends on how new 19:01:44 let me check now 19:01:45 Oh, you only read them in bursts. 19:01:49 I remember now. 19:02:00 no, reading it now 19:02:08 was only one behind 19:05:15 shachaf: OK, that's quite the plot twist 19:06:18 oh, hmm, the page online for my thesis has finally been created, but apparently it's restricted distribution until 1 December for some reason 19:06:25 I assume that's the date on which I "officially" get the PhD 19:06:36 I think I've just proved something TC... 19:06:39 This... 19:06:42 is the greatest 19:06:43 day 19:06:44 EVER 19:06:48 WOOHOO! 19:06:57 Well, internally at least 19:07:06 And it WASN'T proved by TBS! 19:07:10 Well, not exactly 19:07:13 It kind of was 19:07:21 It's proved by reduction to BF 19:12:54 i'm afraid that's the wrong way hth 19:13:13 ais523: I was going to ask about that. 19:13:19 ais523: Restricted to whom? 19:13:31 shachaf: the staff hosting the site, apparently 19:13:35 Can I read it if I'm mentioned in it? 19:13:37 at least /I/ don't have access and it's my thesis :-( 19:21:49 Maybe Elsevier will sell you a copy. 19:22:14 My former department's bibtex-based webified publication list infrastructure had this concept of "internal pdf". 19:22:44 Adding an "internal pdf" to a publication put a link that would 403 to the publication entry on the web page. 19:22:57 shachaf: anyway, it will be free public access once the 1 December deadline's passed, unless someting really incompetent happens 19:23:02 Also when accessed from my "internal" workstation. 19:23:12 fizzie: heh, the "link" to it on the web page in my case is actually just some underlined text 19:23:15 it doesn't do anything when you click on it 19:23:19 You could access them via the NFS share, but I'm not sure what the link was for. 19:23:33 Maybe it used to be an IP-based restriction and someone renumbered the networks or something. 19:24:16 I wonder what our library does, I know they make the dissertations available, but I don't know at what point in the process. 19:25:55 Huh, they have a new system. 19:26:08 https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/ v. fancy. 19:26:41 I don't think the non-thesis categories are very comprehensive. 19:26:50 whoa, aalto university 19:26:58 they should have a branch in paalo aalto 19:27:36 shachaf: They organized a cruise ship conference thing, and called it "Aalto on Waves". 19:27:47 http://www.aaltoonwaves.com/ 19:27:52 fi:aalto == en:wave. 19:28:20 Although I think it's named after Alvar Aalto. 19:28:38 whoa, i can read all of fizzie's secrets 19:29:06 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 19:29:11 Oh, these are people who cited fizzie, and people who were advised by fizzie. 19:29:20 Yes, apparently my master's thesis isn't in there. 19:29:28 who is your master 19:29:37 I graduated just before Helsinki University of Technology became Aalto University, I guess this new thing only has Aalto-stuff. 19:30:05 What does it take to get some fizzie advice? 19:30:53 Hah, and the old thesis database isn't available externally. 19:31:10 "A user licence is required to the databases Tkkbooks, Tkkserials, Tali and Inssi from other than Aalto University users." 19:31:25 The text "A user license" is a link to a 404 page. 19:34:13 Searching by my surname, there was a bachelor's thesis on lighting; tried to download it: "You do not have the credentials to access the restricted bitstream". 19:37:34 As far as I can determine, my master's thesis is not freely electronically available. :/ 19:37:40 Oh well. It wasn't very good anyway. 19:39:41 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:49:24 Yep 19:49:30 I wrote a language and proved it TC. 19:49:34 I am so happy. 19:54:07 I hope you noticed oerjan's hth comment. 19:54:40 fizzie: I'm afraid that doesn't disambiguate very much. 19:55:05 Oh, that hth comment. 19:55:08 The one about reduction to BF being the wrong way around. 19:55:18 Really? 19:55:53 Because you can write a program in this language that is essentially Trivial Brainfuck Substitution 19:55:56 If you go by the usual meanings of the word. If you implemented BF in your language, that's reducing BF to your thing, and that's the right way around. 19:55:57 It's a tree-based languagee 19:56:09 But if you were so inclined, you could use the tree as a tape 19:56:15 Oh 19:56:20 In that case, it's probably right. 19:56:22 Did I just use the wrong terminology 19:56:37 I must've 19:56:51 Reduction of A to B conventionally means a way to solve A using a known solution of B. 19:57:02 Oh 19:57:44 Basically, my language has a way to move from node to node, a way to increment or decrement the current node while 1, and a way to loop a block of code while nonzero 19:57:53 *by 1 19:58:08 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 19:58:21 And it has no arbitrary restrictions 19:58:27 AFAIKT 19:58:40 s/k/T/i 19:59:02 That sounds a lot like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Treehugger 19:59:11 Although maybe your tree isn't binary. 19:59:42 It is a lot like Treehugger 19:59:45 I assume 19:59:54 My tree is, as a matter of fact, binary 20:00:00 How dare you accuse me of being otherwise? 20:00:06 :P 20:00:45 Yep 20:00:54 It's basically exactly treehugger, but more legible 20:01:08 And additional commadns 20:01:14 It's not an esolang, strictly 20:01:27 strictly speaking it's a weirdlang 20:01:31 to use the technical term 20:01:34 It's an esolang the same way Postscript is an esolang 20:01:36 In the same family, there's also the more elaborate https://esolangs.org/wiki/Arborealis 20:01:41 Touche 20:01:50 I've seen arborealis 20:01:51 (the joke is that weirdlang isn't the technical term) 20:01:53 it's inspired by it 20:02:03 I got the joke, shachaf 20:02:10 Which is why I said touche 20:02:33 It's inspired by arborealis to the degree of just being called Arbour-Lang currently 20:02:38 Hrm. 20:02:59 If I type "esolangs.org foo" in my browser, it does a search using http://fail.esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=foo 20:03:02 Which fails. 20:03:05 Because fail.esolangs.org fails. 20:03:18 Wonder where that has come from. 20:03:45 Weird 20:04:12 Really strange. I have an "esolangs.org" search using fail.esolangs.org, and a "fail.esolangs.org" search using esolangs.org. 20:04:36 And also two other "Esolang (en)" search engines from various temporary things, but that's more reasonable. 20:05:03 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:06:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:07:25 fizzie: One might even call your searching quirks... esoteric 20:07:35 20:10:19 What kinds of queue operations are there? 20:10:27 There's enqueue and dequeue as the standard 20:10:31 But there's also roll 20:10:35 Any others I should know about? 20:14:13 What's roll? 20:14:35 It sounds like just dequeue-enqueue. 20:14:42 But maybe it's not. 20:14:58 Hmm. Here's an esolang. 20:15:07 There's a queue. 20:15:14 "Practical" queue types tend to have an "is empty" test, and maybe a peek operation for the front. 20:15:20 Of nonnegative integers. 20:15:49 You pop a number; call it n. Then you peek the next n numbers and reenqueue them. 20:17:00 So "3 3 2 2 1 1" would become "3 2 2 1 1 3 2 2", then "2 2 1 1 3 2 2 2 2", then "2 1 1 3 2 2 2 2 2 1", then "1 1 3 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1", and so forth. 20:17:23 Sounds Turing-complete. 20:17:42 Somehow, I just noticed the name collison between dequeue the operation and dequeue the double-ended queue 20:17:45 tswett: reminds me of resplicate 20:17:49 although it's not quite the same 20:17:59 hppavilion[1]: The double-ended queue is generally just a "deque". 20:18:06 Ah 20:18:08 Pronounced 'deck', I think. 20:18:09 it also reminds me of xigxag, though, which is suspected to not be TC 20:18:21 (Because like a deck of cards, you can access both ends.) 20:19:13 Ah 20:19:17 I'll fix that 20:19:25 I'm designing an OO CLI 20:19:44 I've decided to obey the made up philosophy of RSRJ (Right Shell for the Right Job) 20:19:48 Bash is good sometimes 20:19:57 But not for everything shell-related 20:20:10 So I'm going to invent a host of alternative shells that all have special purposes 20:20:31 Not to replace the Bourne-Again SHell, but as alternatives for specific tasks 20:20:48 hppavilion[1]: there's git shell, already 20:20:58 ais523: Yes there is 20:21:15 Wait, is Git OO? 20:21:19 The shell I mean 20:21:23 I don't think so 20:21:27 OK 20:21:28 if you want an object-oriented shell, look at Powershell 20:21:37 I've never actually used Git shell 20:21:48 Powershell is Windows-only though AFAIK 20:21:56 The shells I'm designing will be Cross-Platform 20:22:10 I'm going to integrate them into this cool interface called the UtopiaUI 20:22:20 The UUI will be cool 20:22:25 Sometimes I wonder if there are actual scsh users anywhere. I've never heard of anyone. 20:22:52 Its basic form will be a command prompy mixed with a file explorer 20:22:54 Imagine this: 20:23:00 You type "cd dir" 20:23:14 And the file explorer you're using switches to the "dir" directory 20:23:22 So you don't need to type "ls" to see all the files 20:23:30 And you can see what you're doing much more awesomely 20:24:13 Or, if you double click (or single click, depending on your OS's settings) on the "dir" directory 20:24:27 That sounds somewhat like NC and its ilk. 20:24:28 The shell you're using implicitly cd's to dir 20:24:55 And the shell is DIRECTLY connected in-window to that file system 20:24:58 So there's no confusion 20:25:08 I love graphical software that has a command line. 20:25:14 I mean, I don't think I've ever used such software. 20:25:22 But in my imagination, I love it. 20:25:49 tswett: Awesome! 20:25:52 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander#/media/File:Norton_Commander_5.51.png -- IIRC, the prompt at the bottom and the file manager filling the rest of the screen are quite synchronized. 20:25:58 (It's not graphical, of course.) 20:26:10 Yep 20:26:27 UUI will basically be an epic programming tool 20:26:55 tswett: MATLAB is kind of a graphical software with a command line. 20:26:58 If you squint, at least. 20:27:02 Heh 20:27:14 It'll have all the necessary programming tools 20:27:26 hppavilion[1]: UUI sounds a lot like an IDE. 20:27:27 Sans a full-fledged IDE, such that the user can use their own preferred one 20:27:37 tswett: It's not an IDE 20:27:47 You use your own preferred IDE 20:28:09 You use the UUI when you want to browse files without an eyestrain 20:28:38 And stuff like that 20:28:51 I'm sure I'll find a place for it in the world of programming :P 20:29:16 Or at least the advertising department will 20:29:17 :P 20:30:02 Are you going to create your own file browser, or integrate this with an existing one? 20:30:53 I don't know 20:30:57 This is a long-term plan 20:31:17 I have a personal project perpetually going to create a software suite called UtopiaOffice 20:31:49 Strangely, the company I'm developing it under (and likely the one to distribute it if all goes according to my ~evil~ plan) is actually a GAMING company 20:32:00 Startup 20:33:26 It's designed to be usable for programmers and mathematicians as well as mere mortals 20:34:01 So, for example, it has a calculator called Godel that will, if I can figure it out, do calculus. 20:34:42 But to answer your question, it will /probably/ use a custom-made filebrowser 20:35:13 And be designed to look pretty so it doesn't strain your eyes 20:35:20 And, of course, be customizable :P 20:40:12 I'm designing that OO shell... but my tendency towards Esolangs is directing me to make BF scripting possible in it 20:40:19 Definably 20:40:46 I have to go 20:40:47 Bai 20:52:46 -!- _256Q has joined. 20:52:46 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 20:52:46 -!- _256Q has joined. 21:11:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:13:13 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:17:31 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:19:02 -!- atrapado has joined. 21:33:06 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:33:51 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:44:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:47:03 -!- boily has joined. 21:52:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: byeloi). 21:54:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:56:41 @massages-loud 21:56:41 You don't have any messages 21:59:37 -!- rg__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:00:36 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:01:02 -!- mtve has joined. 22:02:41 helloily 22:02:55 eastern time is scow 22:04:48 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:05:16 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:06:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:07:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:07:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:08:50 shellochaf! 22:08:57 you're on the East Coast? 22:09:06 obviously 22:09:15 looj this "shello" thing doesn't make any sense 22:09:25 that h isn't an independent sound 22:09:33 you can't make "hello" out of it 22:09:51 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:10:27 hellochaf? 22:10:49 hi 22:11:43 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:18:45 Shellophane. 22:20:20 Mr. Shellophane / Shoulda been my name 22:30:29 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:33:15 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:57:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STRONG CHICKEN). 22:58:49 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:00:19 goodeening 23:04:04 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:15:11 -!- MDream has joined. 23:18:40 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:18:46 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:19:19 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:19:45 -!- mihow has joined. 2015-08-11: 00:00:39 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:03:50 -!- aretecode has joined. 00:31:46 -!- danofthedeep has joined. 00:32:16 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has joined. 00:32:40 Hi 00:46:35 I just spent 20 minutes searching for the one letter in my font that I accidentally made 1 pixel too high 00:47:08 Now my font is once again 16x9 pixels 00:47:30 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:48:54 -!- getpwnam has quit. 00:57:02 -!- danofthedeep has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:17:48 -!- danofthedeep has joined. 01:18:53 -!- danofthedeep has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:19:20 -!- danofthedeep has joined. 01:20:27 -!- danofthedeep has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:21:38 -!- danofthedeep has joined. 01:25:10 hello danofthedeep 01:25:27 `wisdom 01:25:42 onëliner/onëliners are pairs of unfathomable vectors in the category of exponential distance. 01:31:25 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:44:24 `wisdom 01:44:26 loop/loop: see loop 01:44:28 `wisdom 01:44:29 tmyk/tmyk the more overfilled your brain gets. 01:44:38 `? recursion 01:44:39 You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW 01:46:18 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has joined. 02:04:27 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 02:06:29 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:07:06 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:21:02 -!- Aearnus_ has joined. 02:27:50 -!- variable has joined. 02:29:26 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcZUPDMXzJ8 02:32:51 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:37:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:58:39 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has joined. 02:58:49 Dammit 02:59:08 I think I left myself logged into IRC at work and it didn't log me off 03:00:45 hppavilion[1]_: do you have your nick registered? 03:00:59 one of the main reasons to register your nick is to log off other remote copies of yourself, 03:01:02 s/,// 03:01:05 ais523: : Yes 03:01:06 Oh 03:01:10 Awesome 03:01:22 hppavilion[1]_: /msg nickserv ghost hppavilion[1] password 03:01:28 you don't need the password if you're logged in right now 03:01:40 (ideally send that in a different tab so that we don't see your password if you typo the / at the start) 03:01:46 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:02:09 ais523: Yes, I figured out that I should do that when identifying a while ago 03:02:20 And completely ignore that ideal :P 03:02:29 now that nickserv's disconnected your ghost 03:02:37 you can just /nick to take over the name you want 03:05:51 ais523: Yep 03:05:58 I figured that'd be how it worked 03:06:05 -!- hppavilion[1]_ has changed nick to hppavilion[1]. 03:06:17 Yuy 03:06:40 -!- oren has changed nick to Oren. 03:06:58 -!- Oren has changed nick to o-ren. 03:08:33 -!- o-ren has changed nick to \oren\. 03:14:20 <\oren\> WTF?!!? So they sold Google to a brand new company called alphabet run by the same people? 03:14:30 yes 03:16:03 ofc, if you own a company, you can sell it, and you can also sell it to yourself 03:16:16 so there's nothing legally that weird about it 03:17:43 <\oren\> but whyyyyy 03:18:04 the theory I've seen is that they want to narrow what the word "google" refers to 03:18:19 although whether it's going to be search or advertising (or both but nothing else) is rather up in the air 03:18:32 IMO it'd be a terrible move for them to actually rename the search engine, but maybe they will? 03:20:31 they're not going to 03:21:03 it's hard to see how they would 03:21:17 although anecdotal evidence is that the general public don't really understand the distinction between a browser and a search engine 03:21:28 (and URL bars that pipe to a search engine are not helping) 03:21:30 I read that somewhere 03:21:42 I thought it was their blog post, but apparently not 03:22:02 ais523: anecdotal evidence suggests there are people who don't understand the distinction between a browser and the internet 03:22:13 that too 03:29:20 it seems like they're also trying to bring attention to their other subsidaries 03:30:01 like http://www.calicolabs.com/ 03:32:13 -!- variable has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 03:33:24 There are people who don't know Facebook coutns as "using the itnernet". 03:33:35 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 03:33:59 But yeah, they specifically said Alphabet's just meant to act as a holding company. 03:34:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 03:34:45 It won't make anything itself, it's more to solve the problem of them buying up companies that work on their own and then dealing with people wondering why it's not integrated with search. 03:34:47 -!- ais523 has joined. 03:35:17 when did google neuter their calculator features :( 03:43:09 coppro: Aeons ago 03:44:01 possibly related to wolfram|alpha? 03:44:12 <\oren\> use dc command for calculator! 03:44:33 I used to use it for dimensional calculations 03:44:39 now w|a will be my goto I guess 03:45:13 <\oren\> idea: programming language with units on every amount 03:46:00 <\oren\> x = 10m; y = x / 2s; print y; >>> 5m/s 03:48:16 <\oren\> km/h = 3.6m/s; y = 5m/s; print (km/h)y; >>> 1.388888 03:49:29 <\oren\> hmm... you could do something quite like this with C++11 custom literals 03:49:56 <\oren\> unfortunately, c++ is scow 03:51:09 `scow 03:51:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: scow: not found 03:51:14 I see 03:51:24 \oren\: not ony can you do that with C++ custom literals 03:51:54 but boost.units 04:07:43 https://github.com/ainfosec/crema/ why is this not turing complete? 04:09:23 izabera: my guess is recursion isn't allowed 04:10:06 -!- Wright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:10:06 there's no mention of such restriction 04:10:21 -!- Wright has joined. 04:10:37 there isn't 04:10:53 but if you disallow (mutual) recursion, it's sub-TC 04:11:02 if you don't, pretty sure it is TC 04:20:21 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:37:07 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:44:15 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 04:48:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:20:32 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 05:26:12 <\oren\> ■□▢▣▤▥▦▧▨▩◧◨◩◪◫◰◱◲◳ 05:29:19 <\oren\> ⅒ seems to be missing from a lot of fonts for some reason 05:29:48 <\oren\> it's even missing from GNU unifont 05:30:06 works in tamsyn \o/ 05:30:06 | 05:30:06 /| 05:30:24 slowbot 05:30:39 -!- zadock has joined. 05:30:46 \oren\: the ascii letter? 05:32:19 <\oren\> no 05:32:38 <\oren\> `unidecode ⅒ 05:32:39 ​[U+2152 VULGAR FRACTION ONE TENTH] 05:33:14 <\oren\> it is supposed to be like - 05:33:19 <\oren\> _1_ 05:33:24 <\oren\> 10 05:36:42 <\oren\> ͰͱͲͳ are also missing from GNU unifont for unknowable reasons 05:38:06 <\oren\> as are ◸◹◺◻◼◽◾◿ 05:39:56 <\oren\> Is this the result of newer unicode standards adding those characters? 05:41:09 <\oren\> seems so 05:45:33 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:53:43 -!- x10A94 has joined. 06:06:13 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 06:09:27 -!- rg_ has joined. 06:17:25 <\oren\> Well i've figured out how to configure unicode font fallback 06:21:19 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 06:37:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 06:37:41 Hi 06:39:51 <\oren\> hi 06:49:38 does using the list monad make me terrible? 06:51:27 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:52:25 coppro: depends on how you use it 06:52:29 if you use it for its intended purpose, no 06:56:14 So in Perl and many other languages, there's a truthy/falsey dimension, but now Perl 6 has a defined/undefined dimension 06:56:59 Perl 5 has a defined/undefined dimension too 06:56:59 And a `with` statement which is like `if` except for definedness 06:57:37 ais523, how many undefined values are there in Perl 5? Perl 6 types and Failures are considered undefined 06:58:06 http://design.perl6.org/S04.html#The_with_and_without_statements 06:58:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:58:53 Sgeo: ah right, I can only think of one, arguably two depending on how you look at it 06:58:58 read-only undef and read-write undef 06:59:10 only read-only undef is more of a container than a value 06:59:14 hmm 06:59:16 ok so 06:59:21 if I have a Maybe a 06:59:31 and a computation a -> m b 06:59:55 Perl 6 doesn't have undef, but lets you use the type to represent an undefined value of that type. I'm not convinced that that's much better than Java null, but for some reason they are 07:00:18 is there an easy combinator which will give me mzero if the maybe is Nothing and the result of the computation otherwise? 07:02:38 ah mfromMaybe is close enough 07:21:43 hmm 07:22:58 coppro: asum . traverse f 07:23:41 oh wait 07:24:24 oerjan: figured it out 07:24:40 mfromMaybe isn't standard, is it 07:24:43 mapM_ 07:24:44 no it isn't 07:24:59 mapM_ doesn't work 07:25:04 :t mapM_ 07:25:05 (Monad m, Foldable t) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m () 07:25:13 it doesn't give results 07:25:48 in this case I don't care about results, but yes 07:26:21 some sort of fold would do if I did 07:28:04 :t foldM_ 07:28:05 (Monad m, Foldable t) => (b -> a -> m b) -> b -> t a -> m () 07:28:21 hmm 07:28:23 ais523: anything with _ at the end will generally discard results 07:28:26 :t mapM 07:28:27 (Monad m, Traversable t) => (a -> m b) -> t a -> m (t b) 07:28:48 oerjan: ah right, I was confusing it with the fold1 and the like 07:32:08 come to think of it, how do you generally disregard results in Haskell 07:32:09 I think it's interesting to contrast with Ruby and some similar languages, where both nil and false are falsey... if something returns a lack of value, and if something returns an actual false, are indistinguishable by merely a truthy check 07:32:28 the obvious \x -> () doesn't work because then x isn't evaluated 07:32:32 can you lift it somehow? 07:32:48 Sgeo: well Perl 5 has separate defined and truthy checks, although undef is falsey 07:33:03 \a -> a; return () 07:33:04 ? 07:33:08 oh wait got it 07:33:14 :t \f -> asum . fmap f 07:33:15 Not in scope: ‘asum’ 07:33:15 Perhaps you meant one of these: 07:33:15 ‘F.asum’ (imported from Data.Foldable), 07:33:20 wtf 07:33:25 :t \f -> F.asum . fmap f 07:33:26 (Functor t, Foldable t, Alternative f) => (a1 -> f a) -> t a1 -> f a 07:33:30 that. 07:34:09 int-e: i'm not sure Data.Foldable needs to be imported qualified any longer 07:34:33 @tell int-e for lambdabot, i'm not sure Data.Foldable needs to be imported qualified any longer 07:34:33 Consider it noted. 07:34:52 everything that name clashed has been unified 07:36:19 :t void 07:36:20 Functor f => f a -> f () 07:36:23 ais523: ^ 07:36:38 oerjan: aha 07:36:43 now I'm wondering if that has a simple definition 07:36:44 it probably does 07:37:04 that's for inside Monads and the like 07:37:10 @src void 07:37:10 Source not found. You type like i drive. 07:37:23 `? lambdabot 07:37:24 lambdabot is a fully functional bot. just don't ask about @src. 07:38:03 ais523: nowadays it'd be void x = () <* a 07:38:08 :t (<*) 07:38:09 Applicative f => f a -> f b -> f a 07:38:15 oops 07:38:18 sorry 07:38:29 :t (<$) -- that one 07:38:30 Functor f => a -> f b -> f a 07:38:52 which also is a way of discarding a result, replacing it by whatever 07:39:11 > 3 <$ [1,2,3] 07:39:13 [3,3,3] 07:41:08 ais523: also, there's seq 07:41:11 :t seq 07:41:11 a -> b -> b 07:41:23 it discards, but evaluates first 07:41:44 disabling laziness 07:41:59 seq and performUnsafeIO are one hell of a combo 07:42:13 I know about seq 07:42:16 *unsafePerformIO 07:42:21 yeah 07:42:28 how many layers does a get unpacked? 07:42:34 just one 07:42:39 I think it's just checked for not-infinite-loop-ness? 07:42:45 or does it also unpack the outermost constructor? 07:43:04 it evaluates enough to know that it _has_ an outermost constructor. 07:43:27 "weak head normal form" is the technical term 07:43:43 and for functions, until you get a lambda 07:43:45 -!- Aearnus_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:44:01 I take it this needs compiler magic in order to work, then? 07:44:36 well that's the semantic definition. ghc of course tries to optimize. 07:45:05 I mean, not just optimizatoin 07:45:08 but to even be able to define it 07:45:10 ais523: "evaluating a thunk to head normal form" is like one of ghc's primitive operations. 07:45:18 *+weak 07:45:46 or as they call it, "entering a thunk" 07:46:27 and it's the basic operation performed first by ghc core language's case expression 07:47:29 except that somehow, function types cannot be entered, but can still be seq'ed, i'm not exactly sure how that works. 07:49:12 there's some difference in how ghc handles function types and ADT types, that means unsafeCoercing one to the other can crash things, even if you don't actually _use_ the result as an ADT value 07:49:52 ADT types are the ones with genuine constructors 07:50:52 i suppose this is precisely the difference between types where evaluating has to "unwrap a constructor", which then crashes for values which don't have any. 07:51:03 * oerjan nice grammar 07:52:24 ais523: because normally, _without_ seq, you never evaluate an ADT value except because you want to test / unwrap its constructor, or a function except to apply it. 07:52:51 oerjan: right, which is why I thought extra magic would be needed for seq 07:53:03 hm maybe you are right 07:53:15 i.e. seq isn't something I'd expect you to be able to implement in standard Haskell, except in terms of itself 07:53:30 (or other functions of a similar nature) 07:53:37 also, it has to be general, because you can call seq on a polymorphic value that isn't known to be ADT or function 07:55:18 ais523: yeah. for any specific ADT type, you can implement it by matching on an arbitrary construction, but there's no way to do it for functions. 07:55:29 *constructor 07:55:56 hmm, "case x when _ -> ()" sort-of feels like a one-level unwrap 07:56:09 but I suspect it doesn't wrap at all, and doesn't even marginally evaluate x as a result 07:56:25 it does if that's the core language 07:56:42 but not if it's haskell (and you mean of, not when) 07:57:21 > case undefined of _ -> "hi" 07:57:23 "hi" 07:57:45 oerjan: sorry, working in OCaml in the day job, I find Haskell syntax easy to forget 07:57:59 _ is an "irrefutable pattern", which means it evaluates nothing 07:59:02 variables are also irrefutable, as is unwrapping a _newtype_ constructor (which are entirely at the type-level) 07:59:35 > case undefined of Identity x -> "hi" 07:59:36 "hi" 08:00:09 > case undefined of Just x -> "hi" 08:00:10 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 08:00:31 @let data A x = A x; newtype B x = B x 08:00:32 Defined. 08:00:41 > case undefined of A x -> "hi" 08:00:42 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 08:00:45 > case undefined of B x -> "hi" 08:00:46 "hi" 08:01:13 @let data C x = C !x -- data with strict constructor 08:01:13 Defined. 08:01:18 > case undefined of C x -> "hi" 08:01:20 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 08:02:02 ais523: this behavior for pattern matching is the _only_ semantic difference between a newtype and a datatype with a single constructor with a single strict field 08:02:50 i think possibly GHC even implements them identically internally by default nowadays 08:03:00 (not quite sure about that) 08:03:17 and the only reason those are similar is the existence of strict fields 08:03:33 otherwise you could have a thunk with a known constructor but lazy internals that bottomed out 08:03:57 yeah 08:04:12 > case A undefined of A x -> "hi" 08:04:14 "hi" 08:04:23 > case B undefined of B x -> "hi" 08:04:24 "hi" 08:04:32 > case C undefined of C x -> "hi" 08:04:33 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 08:04:35 -!- nflix has joined. 08:05:07 and this shows the case where C is the odd one out 08:07:32 hm is there an example where B is the odd one out 08:07:47 no wait 08:07:48 A 08:09:52 oh of course 08:10:07 > case A undefined of !x -> "hi" 08:10:09 "hi" 08:10:13 > case B undefined of !x -> "hi" 08:10:15 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 08:10:18 > case C undefined of !x -> "hi" 08:10:20 "*Exception: Prelude.undefined 08:11:06 ais523: ^ 08:11:25 oh hmm, how does that strictness on the case work? 08:11:43 note that I'm tired enough that I have to look at your comments twice to see whether they're in italic 08:11:48 basically that's equivalent to A undefined `seq` "hi" 08:12:25 ah, forces a one-level unwrap 08:15:09 with the caveat that a newtype constructor doesn't count as a level 08:15:36 right, it's just a label really 08:15:43 and that unwrapping a data constructor also unwraps its strict fields 08:15:52 can a newtype have more than one constructor? IIRC it can't? 08:15:55 nope 08:16:12 in which case I'd expect a newtype to be implemented identically to whatever it's wrapping 08:16:23 yep, that's precisely the use case 08:16:39 to avoid runtime overhead but still have a distinct type 08:18:24 and making conversion have no overhead the other way is why the special treatment in patterns 08:18:42 *there's the 08:20:19 but even with that, there are still cases where conversion is not without overhead, so ghc recently introduced a Coercible class to handle more 08:20:35 (people were previously using unsafeCoerce) 08:20:59 > coerce [Identity (3 :: Int)] :: [Int] 08:21:00 No instance for (Contravariant []) arising from a use of ‘coerce’ 08:21:00 In the expression: coerce [Identity (3 :: Int)] :: [Int] 08:21:03 argh 08:21:13 of course lambdabot imports a completely different coerce 08:21:30 from one of edwardk's packages, i bet 08:22:07 hmm, OCaml has the (:>) operator that seems to match that particular coerce 08:22:13 that lambdabot just found 08:22:40 anyway, the thing is that [Identity Int] _is_ identically represented to [Int] but without coerce you still need to go through map 08:23:37 (Identity is like the silliest newtype ever, it wraps anything in the trivial Monad) 08:24:03 :t coerce 08:24:04 (Functor f, Contravariant f) => f a -> f b 08:24:22 i'd be a bit surprised if Ocaml has that :P 08:24:47 oh :> is for object subtyping, isn't it? 08:24:54 * oerjan vaguely recalls 08:25:34 which i guess involves variance too 08:26:44 that btw is edwardk's supergeneral way of expressing that f is a functor that ignores its wrapped type, i.e. essentially Const a b = Const a 08:28:01 somehow haskell has ended up with two competing types like that, although there seems to be a movement to get rid of Constant 08:28:13 :k Constant 08:28:14 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Constant’ 08:28:14 Perhaps you meant ‘Constraint’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted) 08:28:19 :k Const 08:28:20 * -> * -> * 08:28:44 :k Control.Functor.Constant.Constant 08:28:45 Not in scope: 08:28:46 type constructor or class ‘Control.Functor.Constant.Constant’ 08:28:53 :k Control.Functor.Trans.Constant.Constant 08:28:54 Not in scope: 08:28:54 type constructor or class ‘Control.Functor.Trans.Constant.Constant’ 08:29:01 eep 08:29:44 * oerjan learns that there exists a Control.Monad.Trans.Conts module 08:29:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:30:24 hm ghci was surprisingly helpful with suggesting module names 08:30:32 :k Data.Functor.Constant.Constant 08:30:33 * -> * -> * 08:32:15 i wish it would suggest language options that way too 08:33:21 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:35:17 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 08:35:36 hmph turns out it _does_ if you use ghci from the terminal instead of winghci. *sigh*. 08:36:29 or well, then it has proper tab completion. 08:36:54 Good morning 08:37:15 One of my friends is resitting an exam this morning and I am a little worried 08:38:16 ouch 08:39:52 I am mostly worried because I helped him revise for it 08:41:05 So if he doesn't do well enough it's sort of on me 08:41:08 Is that selfish of me? 08:42:06 well, it's not altruistic, but being selfish sort-of implies it's at the cost of someone else 08:42:27 whereas your friend doing well in the exam doesn't hurt anyone, and indeed is a benefit to the world in general 08:42:32 so I don't think it fits the definition of being selfish either 08:42:38 it's one of those instances where everyone's interest aligns 08:44:59 I think next academic year we're both gonna have to stay a bit more on top of things 08:46:27 hi all 08:46:54 [wiki] [[Chinese]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43720&oldid=38656 * Rdebath * (+70) /* ASCII only */ 08:49:01 hi nflix 08:50:42 * oerjan suspects that guy in GG to actually have _planned_ that agatha would mess up the other guy's plans 08:51:09 oerjan, I'm not sure, if that were the case why'd he offer to bathe her and take her to his chambers? 08:51:25 to prevent suspicion? 08:51:40 Seems risky 08:51:47 i wouldn't be entirely surprised if he's working for the real Master 08:52:15 or even, perhaps, _is_ the real master working through a clank body 08:53:41 Hmm, rereading the last few, you might be righ 08:53:42 t 08:56:07 or perhaps this is a test of her, and they're _both_ in on it. 08:56:18 yay for semi-public wlan... 08:56:29 oerjan, that'd be more surprising 08:56:34 -!- zadock has joined. 08:58:03 Taneb: if you were the master and a very powerful spark of unknown character entered your domain, wouldn't _you_ want to give them a few tests before meeting them openly? 08:58:24 I probably would do it more subtly than kidnapping her 08:58:38 ais523: The theory I've seen (the official one) claims it's to align "Google" better with the official mission statement: "to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful". 08:58:40 well he _does_ have a devilish sense of humor :P 09:00:43 in any case, i fully expect him to be a master manipulator aware of most plots against him 09:01:07 oerjan, it could be that the true master subtly manipulated this conspiracy into being 09:01:17 ooh 09:02:37 I'd be willing to bet there's a number of conspiracies centred around a "master" of Paris 09:02:58 Which a) lets others take the fall for threats 09:03:07 Taneb: have you read the Foundation series by Asimov? 09:03:07 i've considered the possibility there's no actual master 09:03:08 And b) ties up potential rivals into administrating Paris 09:03:14 ais523, everything but the prequels 09:03:16 it has a truly surprising number of nested conspiracies 09:03:26 ah right, the prequels don't add much to the conspiracy count 09:03:36 just explain the origins of at least two of them 09:03:42 > foldlM 09:03:43 Not in scope: ‘foldlM’ 09:03:43 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:03:43 ‘F.foldlM’ (imported from Data.Foldable), 09:03:45 @undef 09:03:45 Undefined. 09:03:47 > foldlM 09:03:48 No instance for (Typeable m0) 09:03:48 (maybe you haven't applied enough arguments to a function?) 09:03:48 arising from a use of ‘show_M139423655219615691610827’ 09:04:16 they're more character-driven, really 09:04:24 i've read enough to know of three levels. hm if the trantor empire itself was one it could be four. 09:04:40 oh wait, five. 09:04:47 forgot the solarians 09:05:47 Solarians weren't really a conspiracy as much as a warning of what would be down a particular path 09:06:16 yes, but it's left _very_ open whether they ended up winning 09:06:22 I count five 09:06:39 (um, megaspoiler?) 09:06:52 and yes, I'm trying to avoid spoilers by not talking about specifics 09:07:06 I need to reread them... 09:07:10 I don't count the solarians as part of the "critical path", though 09:07:42 off-topic here (sorry): http://hastebin.com/ugiduroqeb.coffee 09:08:11 nflix: are you a spambot? 09:08:17 looking for ideas for how i can complete that poem.. 09:08:25 hmm, perhaps not 09:08:28 int-e: this might apply to Data.Traversable too btw 09:08:29 u guys r smart 09:08:30 but saying "hi", then not responding 09:08:35 language++ 09:08:38 and then later posting an unsolicited link 09:08:44 oerjan: hmm 09:08:47 that you admit is offtopic 09:08:55 hahaha sori, was observing the chat... 09:08:55 is within the normal bounds for spambot behaviour 09:09:20 like the atmosphere here, but very new to talk anything too technical 09:09:39 hmm 09:09:50 I guess I'm just confused 09:09:56 this channel's sort-of offtopic much of the time 09:10:08 I guess Haskell is almost ontopic but it somehow manages to be too mainstream to really fit 09:10:24 ic 09:10:59 ramp up the type functions 09:11:06 so, any creative ideas ^above 09:11:10 @undef 09:11:11 Undefined. 09:11:24 oerjan: fortunately this is rather easy to test :) 09:12:27 (ghci's :browse qualifies ambgiguous names) 09:13:25 int-e, I did not know that was a thing 09:14:15 Thanks for that 09:19:20 int-e: i'm pretty sure one of the mentioned goals of FTP was "no name clashes in base", although i'm also pretty sure they didn't get that far ((.) and id) 09:19:25 :t id 09:19:26 -!- llue has joined. 09:19:26 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 09:19:26 -!- llue has joined. 09:19:30 a -> a 09:19:34 :t (.) 09:19:35 (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 09:19:53 i see you have the Prelude versions 09:20:04 yes. 09:20:12 Does C.Category mess up lens? 09:20:32 oh that may be 09:20:37 That's the place I can think of most likely to cause a problem 09:20:37 :t (C..) 09:20:39 forall (k :: BOX) (cat :: k -> k -> *) (b :: k) (c :: k) (a :: k). Category cat => cat b c -> cat a b -> cat a c 09:20:49 That's certainly a type signature 09:21:15 I could go Cale's route and let (.) = fmap by way of a compromise. 09:22:26 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:22:33 > Just ("Hi", 0) & _Just C.. _1 %. "Ho" 09:22:34 Not in scope: ‘%.’ 09:22:34 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:22:34 ‘.’ (imported from Data.Function), 09:22:50 int-e, have it be liftA just to confuse everyone 09:23:06 > Just ("Hi", 0) & _Just C.. _1 .~ "Ho" 09:23:07 Just ("Ho",0) 09:23:16 Taneb: well that didn't hurt 09:23:20 or I could just stick to the prelude version 09:23:39 > Just ("Hi", 0) & fmap _Just _1 .~ "Ho" 09:23:40 Just ("Ho",0) 09:23:49 fmap doesn't hurt either 09:24:29 :t liftA 09:24:30 Applicative f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 09:25:00 :t uncons 09:25:03 Ambiguous occurrence ‘uncons’ 09:25:03 It could refer to either ‘Control.Lens.uncons’, 09:25:03 imported from ‘Control.Lens’ at /home/lambda/.lambdabot/State/L.hs:51:1-43 09:25:05 hmpf. 09:25:34 (it's also a function in Data.List) 09:25:40 > Just [1,2,3] & _Just C.. traversed %@~ const 09:25:43 Just [0,1,2] 09:27:54 wtf is op... 09:28:27 ♫ when you wanna get up, up on your feet, caffeine ♫ 09:28:50 int-e, "op"? 09:29:03 @undef 09:29:03 Undefined. 09:29:05 :t op 09:29:06 Associativity -> Int -> String -> Expr -> Expr -> Expr 09:29:08 :t Lens.op 09:29:09 Wrapped s => (Unwrapped s -> s) -> s -> Unwrapped s 09:29:31 > Lens.op (getSum) 10 09:29:33 Could not deduce (Unwrapped s0 ~ Sum s) 09:29:33 from the context (Num s, Wrapped s, Unwrapped s ~ Sum s) 09:29:33 bound by the inferred type for ‘e_110’: 09:29:58 > Lens.op Sum (Sum 10) 09:29:59 10 09:30:58 :t Lens.op Sum (Sum 10) 09:30:59 Num a => Unwrapped (Sum a) 09:31:08 > Lens.op Sum (Sum 10) 09:31:10 10 09:31:13 > Lens.op Sum (Sum 10) :: Int 09:31:16 10 09:31:32 > reduction (1+2+3) 09:31:34 [1 + 2 + 3,3 + 3,6] 09:31:37 oh wait duh 09:31:39 fancy. 09:31:49 type Unwrapped (Sum a) = a 09:32:57 int-e: oh the other op is the one used for building Expr operators 09:33:26 now what is Associativity... 09:33:38 yeah, I'm in the process of hiding it :P 09:33:43 :k Associativity 09:33:46 * 09:33:47 oerjan, associativity means that (a o b) o c = a o (b o c) hth 09:33:53 Taneb: i mean the type 09:34:32 :t reduction 09:34:32 When I spent a significant portion of yesterday helping someone with a ring theory exam, certain things get in my head 09:34:33 Expr -> [Expr] 09:34:58 @undef 09:34:58 Undefined. 09:35:00 :t op 09:35:02 Not in scope: ‘op’ 09:35:03 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:35:03 ‘Control.Lens.op’ (imported from Control.Lens), 09:35:13 :t Debug.SimpleReflect.op 09:35:14 Debug.SimpleReflect.Associativity -> Int -> String -> Expr -> Expr -> Expr 09:35:34 @undef 09:35:34 Undefined. 09:35:35 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:37:17 :t let (£) = op InfixL 3 in reduction (1 £ 2 £ 3) 09:37:18 Not in scope: data constructor ‘InfixL’ 09:37:18 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:37:19 ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.InfixL’ (imported from Debug.SimpleReflect), 09:37:21 > let (£) = op InfixL 3 in reduction (1 £ 2 £ 3) 09:37:27 Not in scope: data constructor ‘InfixL’ 09:37:27 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:37:27 ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.InfixL’ (imported from Debug.SimpleReflect), 09:37:33 *sigh* 09:37:40 > let (£) = op Debug.SimpleReflect.InfixL 3 in reduction (1 £ 2 £ 3) 09:37:43 Couldn't match expected type ‘Unwrapped s’ 09:37:43 with actual type ‘Unwrapped s0’ 09:37:43 NB: ‘Unwrapped’ is a type function, and may not be injective 09:38:04 WHERE IS UNWRAPPED GETTING INTO THAT 09:38:14 :t op 09:38:15 Wrapped s => (Unwrapped s -> s) -> s -> Unwrapped s 09:38:18 try to keep up :P 09:38:30 > let (£) = Debug.SimpleReflect.op Debug.SimpleReflect.InfixL 3 in reduction (1 £ 2 £ 3) 09:38:31 Couldn't match type ‘Expr -> Expr’ with ‘[Char]’ 09:38:31 Expected type: String 09:38:32 Actual type: Expr -> Expr 09:38:49 > let (£) = Debug.SimpleReflect.op Debug.SimpleReflect.InfixL 3 "£" in reduction (1 £ 2 £ 3) 09:38:51 [1£2£3] 09:38:57 :) ish 09:39:31 Sorry, I need more sleep 09:46:37 > ["hi","there"] & traversed <<%~ length 09:46:39 ("hithere",[2,5]) 09:47:00 hm not what i was aiming for 09:47:15 What were you aiming for 09:47:30 [("hi",2),("there",5)] 09:48:17 > ["hi", "there"] & traverse %~ id <<%~ length 09:48:18 [("hi",2),("there",5)] 09:48:28 Not very good, I'll see if I can come up with something better 09:48:54 i was sort of hoping that i'd discovered <<%~ to be more powerful than i thought 09:50:39 also, i noticed a discussion somewhere suggesting that <%~ and <<%~ need non-operator names 09:50:50 (but none actually suggested) 09:52:34 <<%~ is a worse name than some of the ones in Feather 09:52:45 there are names in Feather? 09:53:18 oerjan, there exists a name in Feather, n, such that n is a better name than "<<%~" 09:53:37 fancy 09:53:48 :t (<<%@~) -- hth 09:53:49 Optical (Indexed i) q ((,) a) s t a b -> (i -> a -> b) -> q s (a, t) 09:54:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:54:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 09:54:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 09:54:15 :t (<<~) 09:54:16 Not in scope: ‘<<~’ 09:54:16 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:54:16 ‘<<<>~’ (imported from Control.Lens), 09:54:24 (<<~) :: Optical' (->) q ((,) FilePath) s FilePath -> FilePath -> q s (FilePath, s) 09:56:43 ais523: the thing is lens operators have morphological grammar, and despite Taneb's et al's best efforts it _still_ doesn't define every possible combination. 09:57:17 perhaps you need some sort of metaoperator that takes operator components as arguments? 09:57:18 I was doing well, then someone added indexed variants :( 09:57:41 oerjan: Feather operators are mostly combinations of punctuation marks following this sort of operator component pattern 09:57:48 fortunately for my sanity, I no longer remember most of them 09:57:52 Taneb: i see (<<%=) now exists, i don't recall that from before 09:58:04 oerjan, that has existed for a long time 09:58:08 ,o0(Your Mind turns into a Pretzel) 09:58:11 Before I went on my operator rampage 09:58:12 :t (<<@%=) 09:58:13 Not in scope: ‘<<@%=’ 09:58:13 Perhaps you meant one of these: 09:58:13 ‘<<%=’ (imported from Control.Lens), 09:58:14 there was a symbol that was reasonably consistently used for "unboxed", it may even have been # 09:58:22 in which case I claim that Haskell is stealing ideas from me 09:58:46 . o O ( import qualified Control.Lens as AbandonAllSanityYeWhoEnterHere ) 09:59:06 ais523: ooh 09:59:10 oerjan, now I'm gonna have to add <<@= :( 09:59:24 Or would it be <<@= ? 10:00:01 oerjan: although in Feather, boxing something makes gain an identity, once something's boxed you can retroactively assign to the box contents 10:00:18 whereas if something's unboxed you can't necessarily retroactively assign to it at all, and if you can, it's only because you can somehow find a box inside it 10:00:18 Taneb: do indices makes sense for filepaths 10:00:32 I have no idea 10:01:12 I went on my operator rampage because I needed <<+= 10:01:20 actually, I guess the Primary Rule of Feather is this: retroactively assigning to a box changes the value that was placed inside the box at the time of its creation, and all actions since are recalculated 10:01:45 ais523, does feather have first class functions 10:02:05 Taneb: yes, also closures 10:02:29 I can see why this'd drive someone insane 10:02:38 this is at least partly because my latest plans for producing a Feather interpreter were based on continuously morphing a lambda-calculus-plus-call/cc language into it 10:03:16 and then I sort-of got stuck because my plans required an eigenratio of 1 10:03:34 (cheating is allowed) 10:03:42 eventually you can do it via an eval operator that's defined in terms of itself 10:03:45 i have a combinator interpreter with an eigenration 1 hth 10:03:48 but the in-between bits are rather harder to figure out 10:03:57 *-n 10:03:58 oerjan: actually it might help, I didn't think of using combinators 10:04:03 but please 10:04:07 now is not the time to think of Feather :-D 10:04:35 Feather is outside time, now is as good as any hth 10:04:50 oerjan, hence no time is the time to think of Feather 10:06:49 oerjan: well, a Feather interpretation does actually have a begin point in time 10:06:54 just from outside it, you can't see that point 10:07:04 because it retroactively pushes itself further back into history if you try to find out where it is 10:07:08 *from inside it 10:08:30 you need a heap with revision control 10:09:39 oerjan: for your eigenratio-1 interp? or for feather generally? 10:09:47 for feather 10:09:56 it does have the problem that retroactive modifications tend to form infinite loops without some sort of mitigation 10:10:02 my interp was for unlambda, it only needs refcounting 10:10:10 (unlambda itself) 10:10:28 wait, this was an unlambda self-interp, that just happened to be eigenratio 1 on top of that? 10:10:34 yep 10:10:36 wow 10:10:54 unlambda's actually not a terrible language to implement feather in 10:11:05 it has most of the required features, its main issue is that it's ridiculous 10:11:08 i made it way back, and then when that eigenratio guy started blogging i thought of it, and figured it disproved his hypothesis 10:12:20 my plans for eigenratio 1 mostly involved the sort of evaluation orders that screw up weak normalization proofs 10:21:23 -!- boily has joined. 10:23:07 bholliey 10:24:21 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:42:02 hellørjan! 10:45:19 apparently, scow is oerjanspeak. I thought it was shachafspeech. 10:46:53 so did i 10:47:22 i think this acknowledgement is scow 10:59:53 `? scow 10:59:54 scow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:00:10 weird. 11:00:30 darn it's a quote 11:07:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Latér). 11:11:09 @metar CYUL 11:11:10 CYUL 111100Z 13010KT 3SM -RA BKN008 BKN030 OVC060 18/18 A2976 RMK SF5SC2SC1 SLP077 DENSITY ALT 700FT 11:11:25 18/18. scow scow scow. 11:13:26 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:13:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SEMIORGANIC CHICKEN). 11:26:34 @metar EGLL 11:26:34 EGLL 111120Z VRB03KT 9999 FEW032 20/11 Q1021 NOSIG 11:27:42 \leave 11:27:46 -!- nflix has left. 11:30:43 -!- TieSoul has joined. 11:31:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:54:12 "failedfailed to create file", says a tool. 11:54:20 I guess it just means it failed twice as badly. 11:55:08 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 11:55:26 -!- lleu has joined. 12:14:17 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:20:45 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 12:22:35 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:23:03 -!- villasukka has joined. 12:23:03 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:23:13 Maybe the file creation API returned two failures. 12:23:43 -!- atehwa has joined. 12:24:50 (Is there any APIs that generally returns multiple failures?) 12:24:57 s/Is/I/ 12:25:10 -!- danofthedeep has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 12:25:23 Uh, that replacement doesn't work 12:27:30 Hm, X.509 validation libraries (are supposed to) return multiple failures 12:28:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:39:00 If every category has a skeleton then the axiom of choice 12:52:28 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:05:00 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 13:29:11 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:31:23 -!- augur has joined. 13:51:52 I disagree with John Oliver that "What's twitter?" isn't a valid question . 13:53:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:01:22 and I like how he makes fun of a wheather guy not knowing what "transgender" means 14:01:29 and then he explains sexual orientation wrong 14:01:54 looks like he can't keep up himself. 14:09:12 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 14:13:10 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:13:50 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 14:36:50 multi-exceptions... 14:36:55 new Java Feature :) 14:37:08 throw new RuntimeException() | new IOException(); 14:57:41 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:01:21 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 15:13:20 -!- ptia has joined. 15:14:06 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:14:27 -!- ptia has quit (Client Quit). 15:16:10 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:53:58 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:57:08 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:59:55 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:00 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:07:00 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 16:07:00 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:08:59 -!- Wright has joined. 16:18:04 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:22:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:24:31 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:25:00 @ask boily 18/18. scow scow scow. <-- does that mean you're actually floating 16:25:00 Consider it noted. 16:29:37 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 16:30:35 new language idea: exactly like z80 assembly but with only the a and r registers 16:31:21 @ar 16:31:21 Yeh scurvy dog... 16:32:43 the r register is for dram refresh and increments every instruction fetch 16:33:00 @metar ENVA 16:33:01 ENVA 111620Z 21007KT 180V260 9999 TS VCSH BKN030CB 23/11 Q1008 TEMPO 26025G35KT 4000 TSRAGR BKN012CB RMK WIND 670FT 22010KT 16:33:22 bye bye, nice weather 16:33:42 always refresh with a dram, ye hear 16:36:19 it pours down, but _still_ the sun manages to shine too strongly in here 16:36:47 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:44:13 Just started to rain here. 16:44:15 @metar EGLL 16:44:15 EGLL 111620Z 30004KT 260V350 9999 -RA FEW026 20/12 Q1021 NOSIG 16:44:37 All hail the sun god, -RA, -RA, -RA. 16:44:45 Supposedly it'll rain more later. 16:45:21 Your TSRAGR sounds quite impressive. 16:45:35 Thunderstorms, rain, hail. Proper summer weather. 16:50:41 i haven't noticed any thunder or hail yet 16:51:05 and the really bad weather forecast was only for 1 hour 16:51:49 now it says sunny, but 5-6 degrees colder 16:52:16 hm make that 10 compared to the metar 16:55:16 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:07:01 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 17:07:11 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:15:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 17:16:55 -!- mauris has joined. 17:59:09 -!- mihow has joined. 18:15:18 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 18:15:57 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:18:42 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:43:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:07:22 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 19:16:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:19:28 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 19:38:59 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:04:20 -!- bb010g has joined. 20:04:21 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 20:05:11 -!- mauris has joined. 20:09:32 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:14:19 -!- mauris has joined. 20:37:30 -!- getpwnam has joined. 21:04:39 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:08:31 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:13:41 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Slereah_. 21:14:43 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:18:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:25:06 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…). 21:44:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:44:39 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:49:15 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:54:55 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:00:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:02:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:04:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:05:16 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:16:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:16:25 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 22:24:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:31:54 -!- augur has joined. 22:52:19 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:53:05 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:58:27 @metar CYVR 22:58:28 CYVR 112200Z 31016KT 30SM FEW250 23/17 A2992 RMK CI1 HZ CONTRAILS SLP131 DENSITY ALT 900FT 22:59:43 huh, CONTRAILS. didn't know they had that 23:05:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:08:32 -!- boily has joined. 23:11:54 -!- sunnymilk has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:12:17 -!- sunnymilk has joined. 23:16:03 -!- rg_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:16:53 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:17:54 It's all good until it says CHEMTRAILS. 23:21:33 fizziello! 23:21:59 I appreciate well-calligraphied chemtrails. 23:22:06 @massages-loud 23:22:06 oerjan asked 6h 57m 5s ago: 18/18. scow scow scow. <-- does that mean you're actually floating 23:22:19 @ask oerjan huh? 23:22:19 Consider it noted. 23:22:43 @metar CYUL 23:22:44 CYUL 112300Z 01007KT 15SM FEW015 SCT120 BKN240 21/18 A2970 RMK CU1AC4CI1 CU TR SLP055 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 23:22:58 yé, humidity is slowly decreasing... 23:23:19 coppro: chelloppro! was it raining like fungot today? 23:23:19 boily: so the takes a monad and a getvalue function, but a real cooler would be one 23:31:37 @tell oerjan ah. floating. not quite, but a floatation device of some sort wouldn't have been completely useless. 23:31:37 Consider it noted. 23:31:49 -!- mihow_ has joined. 23:32:55 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:32:56 -!- mihow_ has changed nick to mihow. 23:35:50 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 23:38:59 -!- tromp has joined. 23:50:24 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 2015-08-12: 00:01:38 hello world 00:02:04 boily: i'm 7000 km away from my usual location! 00:05:44 boily: yes :( 00:07:38 -!- Bacchus22 has joined. 00:07:51 mauris: hellooodl. 00:07:59 where are you at? 00:08:18 (meanwhile, ascended Shattered Pixel Dungeon! woot!) 00:09:26 -!- Bacchus22 has left. 00:12:22 boily, florida! 00:20:14 -!- mihow has joined. 00:26:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 00:28:43 -!- codergeek42 has joined. 00:28:58 -!- codergeek42 has quit (Client Quit). 00:37:51 mauris: vacation? 00:38:12 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:38:29 yeah 00:41:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:46:02 [wiki] [[Inline]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43721&oldid=34200 * Hppavilion1 * (-7) Fixed name 00:48:50 -!- izabera has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:02:35 I think that "Call Queue" should be moved to "Call Queue (language)" and a new page be created in its place 01:03:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 01:07:28 -!- PinealGlandOptic has joined. 01:08:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:14:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NARCOLETHARGIC CHICKEN). 01:19:58 hmm I bet z80 assembly with just register loads and jumps is turing complete 01:20:11 even without any immediate loads and arithmetic 01:27:34 -!- Aearnus has joined. 01:45:53 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:52:49 -!- alexis3 has joined. 01:53:25 -!- alexis3 has left. 01:58:39 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:06:07 -!- ineiros has joined. 02:09:02 -!- FireFly has joined. 02:10:13 -!- idris-bot has joined. 02:20:08 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:22:02 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:28:29 -!- GeekDude has joined. 02:37:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:53:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:14:58 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 03:50:43 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 03:53:45 -!- Aearnus has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:09:24 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:09:36 -!- Wright_ has joined. 04:17:53 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:20:17 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 04:27:43 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:30:30 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:42:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:54:18 -!- Aearnus has joined. 04:56:43 -!- MDude has joined. 05:00:25 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:05:19 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:25:11 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:42:41 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 05:43:33 -!- jakesyl has joined. 05:43:51 hey guys I'm trying to write a JVM in brainfuck. Where do I get started? 05:48:20 First you need to find an infinite chasm and gaze into it until you achieve ego death 05:48:51 that's one hell of a project 05:49:30 i'd say read rhe jvm specs and start running hello world or the like 05:49:44 gui programs would be a problem 05:50:42 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 05:51:35 [wiki] [[Talk:()]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43722 * 97.33.132.241 * (+280) Created page with "This gives no information on the way the language works. I'm not very fluent in JS or Scheme. This should be expanded to include at least a brief description of converting (..." 05:59:39 @let ego = const; superego = ap 05:59:40 Defined. 06:00:50 id = superego ego ego? 06:03:45 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 06:04:14 -!- Slereah_ has changed nick to Guest54829. 06:08:58 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:14:05 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 06:16:50 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:27:22 -!- zadock has joined. 06:59:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:01:12 @messages- 07:01:12 boily asked 7h 38m 53s ago: huh? 07:01:12 boily said 7h 29m 35s ago: ah. floating. not quite, but a floatation device of some sort wouldn't have been completely useless. 08:01:01 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:13:10 -!- x1365C has joined. 08:14:10 -!- x10A94 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:16:26 -!- x1365C has changed nick to x10A94. 08:19:11 -!- SopaXT has joined. 08:26:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:29:43 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 09:00:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:03:45 -!- Aearnus has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:04:48 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:49:49 -!- zadock has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:53:58 -!- lleu has joined. 09:56:21 -!- scoofy has joined. 10:17:23 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 10:32:30 -!- boily has joined. 10:49:20 @massages-loud 10:49:20 You don't have any messages 10:49:39 @metar CYUL 10:49:40 CYUL 121000Z 25003KT 15SM FEW055 BKN100 18/18 A2975 RMK SC2AC5 SLP075 DENSITY ALT 700FT 10:50:46 hellørjan. we don't have to float today here! 10:53:52 -!- x1365C has joined. 10:57:10 -!- x10A94 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:04:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:10:25 -!- TieSoul has joined. 11:25:23 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:30:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONTROL CHICKEN). 11:34:36 -!- x1365C has changed nick to x10A94. 11:45:04 wtf windows rebooted without my permission 11:45:59 ...and forgot my open tabs. 11:47:28 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:48:06 come to think of it, one of the reasons it resumes faster is that it no longer goes through that screen that told me when there _is_ a restart planned... 11:50:28 ok there was an option for it. why anyone in their right mind would make that the default boggles my mind... 11:51:25 it's like no one has managed to get it into their thick skulls that rebooting windows is _not_ an operation that can be assumed harmless... 12:04:37 ah there's the scheduled downpour 12:04:42 @metar ENVA 12:04:42 ENVA 121150Z 29004KT 240V310 9999 VCSH SCT042TCU BKN068 BKN094 14/09 Q1021 TEMPO SHRA SCT020CB BKN030 RMK WIND 670FT 28006KT 12:13:23 oerjan: Windows does that 12:13:59 I'm glad I don't use Windows 12:14:14 it didn't do that before i upgraded to 10 12:14:36 i may of course simply have forgotten how i made it stop on a previous occasion. 12:30:11 Ten does what ten wants. 12:47:08 But 7 ate 9. 12:52:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lâter). 13:00:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:05:33 -!- jakesyl has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:10:39 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:18:47 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:31:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:31:50 -!- getpwnam has left ("Leaving"). 13:38:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 13:41:10 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:49:47 -!- mauris has joined. 13:54:47 -!- stalem has joined. 13:55:54 hello folks! i'll make myself quick; as my current understanding of ResPlicate, based on the series on its page, x and y are popped from the top of the stack, and the resulting sequence is pushed from the bottom? 14:03:33 because even if that were so, the sequence of the example output of the python interpreter doesn't follow those rules 14:05:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:06:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:08:10 Could you point out a particular step that is against the rules? 14:09:01 I only looked at the first one (6 2 8 1 6 2 8 1 -> 8 1 6 2 8 1 8 1 6 2 8 1) which seemed all right. 14:09:38 -!- zgrep has changed nick to zgrep_weechat. 14:10:05 no, jeez im sorry my morning coffee prob didn't kick in until a few minutes ago 14:10:42 i was thinking very wrongly, but yes, the sequences are right, so off i go then to write an interpreter :P 14:11:07 i was thinking however, that maybe the article needs to be clarified that it pops from the top, but pushes to the bottom? 14:13:54 Well, it does say "queue", that's how queues work. Not that I'd object to clarification. 14:16:37 How do we know it doesn't pop from the bottom and push to the top? 14:17:03 well, i don't know which is more common so it might be a common generalization, but doesn't there exist FIFO and LIFO queues? or am i mixing them up with stacks? 14:19:59 at closer inspection I quess a queue would be defined as a FIFO collection, whereas a stack is a LIFO collection 14:20:02 -!- mauris_ has joined. 14:20:44 Right. 14:22:11 mh. my brain has turned to moosh it seems 14:22:57 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:26:06 -!- Aearnus has joined. 14:31:18 -!- zgrep has joined. 14:34:20 -!- nycs has joined. 14:36:22 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:40:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:43:43 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 14:54:02 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 14:56:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:02:03 -!- zgrep_weechat has quit (Quit: Error -38: Black hole has swallowed this client.). 15:04:13 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 15:05:42 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:07:08 -!- rg_ has joined. 15:08:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:13:15 -!- skarn has joined. 15:14:14 -!- Wright has joined. 15:18:50 -!- SopaXT has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:30:52 -!- `^_^ has joined. 15:31:26 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:38:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:39:01 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:43:19 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 15:54:16 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:54:36 -!- stalem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:55:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:55:10 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:55:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:02:36 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:04:08 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 16:04:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:04:55 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Changing host). 16:04:55 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 16:07:39 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:07:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:08:47 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:08:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:09:21 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:15:57 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:29:27 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:32:30 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:33:45 -!- Aearnus has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:35:35 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:36:42 -!- Wright has joined. 16:40:09 Things to do this weekend: 16:40:14 * Buy a computer 16:40:18 * Try to ride unicycle again 16:40:29 `quote unicycle 16:40:38 1056) I would like to learn how to use a sword And also how to ride a unicycle Perhaps not at the same time \ 1186) learn you a unicycle for great good 16:41:07 Oooh, I didn't remember 1186 16:41:10 I like that one 16:42:10 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:49:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:59:52 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:03:29 `thanks unicycle 17:03:30 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:03:31 Thanks, unicycle. Thunicycle. 17:03:46 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 17:03:46 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:10:46 what is the appeal of a unicycle. i mean if you arent riding it across a tightrope while juggling, that is 17:11:17 quintopia, it's a decent way to get around 17:14:07 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:14:32 doesnt seem like it. you cant coast, like on a bike or skate board. you have to constantly propel unlike a drifting board. now if you are including airwheel and friends under the unicycle heading, i can understand. 17:15:39 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:15:58 `cat bin/thanks 17:15:59 ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; 17:16:20 and if you goal is exercise, walking seems superior in all respects 17:17:19 `thanks 17:17:21 Thanks, fran. Than. 17:17:33 that's a good hidden feature of bin/thanks 17:17:38 Bear in mind I am the kind of person who wears a brightly coloured tie atop a hoodie 17:17:46 `thanks 17:17:48 Thanks, nigrischation. Thigrischation. 17:18:26 `wisdom nooodl 17:18:27 nooodle/Noooooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. 17:18:36 `wisdom nooodl 17:18:37 nooooooodl/noooooodl is the correct spelling 17:19:05 so you are saying that you be learning for clowning and or signalling purposes. this i can understand 17:20:29 Mostly because I like attention 17:21:25 tanebtention 17:21:38 have you already got the juggling part nailed? 17:22:16 like the dude who solved three rubiks cubes while juggling them the whole time? 17:23:29 I cannot juggle nor can I solve rubik's cubes 17:25:08 solving rubiks cubes while juggling them while unicycling while balancing a baseball bat on your head would get you attention. and possibly a steady income busking 17:27:08 I don't know, York has some pretty impressive buskers 17:27:26 Saw someone at the weekend juggling the audience 17:27:45 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:35:52 what's "next line of a matrix" in LaTeX? 17:36:01 I assumed it was \\, but apparently not 17:36:30 huh. it should be \\ i think 17:37:08 \matrix{a \\ b} is identical to \matrix{a b} in terms of output 17:39:16 aha, I need \begin{matrix} ... \end{matrix} 17:43:04 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:43:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 17:49:47 -!- Wright has joined. 17:56:01 -!- impomatic_ has left. 18:00:25 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:03:08 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:03:23 -!- coppro has joined. 18:08:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 18:18:59 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris. 18:19:10 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 18:19:10 -!- mauris has joined. 18:30:10 -!- mauris has changed nick to mauris__. 18:30:47 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 18:31:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:33:30 * oerjan finally understands why RankNConstraints are really awkward to implement 18:33:36 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:34:23 why twhib 18:35:32 basically once you make them slightly complicated, they make it necessary to backtrack when resolving contexts, and (as spj said in a trac comment) it's entirely non-obvious how to infer types 18:37:27 was it a bactrac comment 18:37:41 example: f :: (forall x. Num x => C (a x), forall x. Ord x => C (a x)) => ... 18:38:13 now, imagine trying to deduce C (a t) for a type which is not a priori known whether it is Num, Ord, or both 18:38:51 shachaf: well i thought of it while away from the computer... 18:39:08 -!- rg_ has joined. 18:39:54 the compiler cannot decide just from the head C (a x) which instance to use (also, one of the instances might be from global scope instead) 18:42:16 for a less contrived case, imagine a class like class (forall x. Ord x => SetLike t x) => Containery t where ... 18:42:44 and then imagine that not all SetLike containers need an Ord constraint 18:43:33 and then accidentally * SetLike (t x) 18:43:36 oops 18:43:48 and then accidentally i kept typing instead of erasing the line first 18:44:49 -!- Guest54829 has changed nick to Slereah. 18:45:19 actually, s/Ord/Unbox/ and you can probably make something with Vector fit even better 18:46:15 or is it Unboxed 19:09:26 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:10:17 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Excess Flood). 19:10:45 -!- `^_^ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:12:11 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 19:15:13 How does copying a cell work in brainfuck? 19:16:13 Oh, I think I know now 19:16:32 fungot: help 19:16:32 FreeFull: between the ants and yow... ask zippy...!") 19:20:13 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:20:46 -!- Wright has joined. 19:27:23 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:28:22 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:38:14 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 19:43:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:50:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:16:39 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 20:29:46 @yow 20:29:46 All I can think of is a platter of organic PRUNE CRISPS being trampled 20:29:46 by an army of swarthy, Italian LOUNGE SINGERS ... 20:37:51 `wisdom 20:37:52 arothmorphise/arothmorphise ... antormo... antrohm... ant... oh bugger. This should go in the `misspellings of antrhrop... atnhro...' entry. 20:38:43 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 20:38:51 -!- Wright has joined. 20:45:33 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:52:12 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 20:53:47 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 20:53:47 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:58:34 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:06:46 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:07:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:08:52 -!- mauris has joined. 21:24:32 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:37:22 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:42:33 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:42:57 -!- mauris has joined. 21:44:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:46:25 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 21:58:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 22:13:29 -!- Aearnus has joined. 22:35:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:18:45 -!- Aearnus has quit. 23:38:26 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:39:05 `run ls wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm 23:39:10 rm: cannot remove `wisdom/categorical': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `product': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `wisdom/braid': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `theory': No such file or directory 23:39:19 err 23:39:21 `run echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm 23:39:27 xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option \ rm: cannot remove `wisdom/': Is a directory \ rm: cannot remove `wisdom/ wisdom/☃': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `wisdom/all': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `the': No such file or directory \ rm: cannot remove `tro 23:39:31 and still doesn't work because it's all one line 23:39:43 meh, never mind 23:40:13 -!- boily has joined. 23:40:58 @metar CYUL 23:40:58 CYUL 122300Z 29011G17KT 15SM BKN028 BKN130 20/15 A2984 RMK SC7AC1 AC TR TCU EMBD NE SLP106 DENSITY ALT 800FT 23:41:08 woohoo, 20/15! 23:44:20 -!- Taneb has changed nick to nvd. 23:44:38 I think I'll nvd for a bit 23:45:56 retrotanelle! 23:46:28 Hey, boily 23:46:33 I am afraid it is time for me to go to bed 23:47:25 bonne nvduit! 23:48:27 :) 23:49:55 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:50:05 <\oren\> hello 23:51:48 b\oren\jour! 2015-08-13: 00:00:48 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:05:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:10:32 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:24:02 <\oren\> hmm these earbuds have better reproduction... I don't like it. 00:24:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:29:10 \oren\: mating earphones together to breed new untanglable pairs? 00:30:11 <\oren\> nah, theyseem to have too much treble and too little bass 00:30:42 You can mate bass together to get more bass. 00:36:53 * boily borrows oerjan's swatter and straps it to my mapole 00:37:10 * boily thwswatts Jafet 00:37:21 @tell oerjan IOU one swatter 00:37:21 Consider it noted. 00:39:07 <\oren\> AHA 00:39:53 <\oren\> If I use putty to block the airholes in the headphones it inhibits the super loud treble 00:43:01 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to oren_. 00:43:56 -!- \oren\ has joined. 00:44:14 -!- oren_ has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:45:09 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Taneb invented it. 10:55:00 `? boily 10:55:01 boily ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:55:07 `ls wisdom 10:55:08 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try listing it in private instead. 11:00:36 going to apply something grabbed from http://stackoverflow.com/a/2565996 11:00:49 'hg revert --all --rev 38' in the example. 11:01:19 `` hg revert --all --rev 5893 11:01:21 abort: could not lock working directory of /hackenv: Read-only file system 11:02:02 ... 11:02:08 keep calm. 11:02:23 ah? 11:02:29 it seems to have worked. 11:02:50 aaaaah! :D 11:03:08 `? boily 11:03:09 boily? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:03:14 ...? 11:04:01 I'm there. http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/accbc9c5c7ec/wisdom is the latest revision. 11:04:08 `? boily 11:04:09 boily? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:05:01 Gregor: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 11:07:25 `le/rn to-be-deleted/to-be-deleted 11:07:27 Learned «to-be-deleted» 11:07:40 `? boily 11:07:41 boily? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:07:46 what are you doing... 11:08:34 oh. 11:09:13 trying to revert the wisdom to what it was. nearly all 'a*' entries are dead. no 'b*' entries, except 'braid theory'. 'c*', 'd*' and 'e*' have been hit hard. 11:09:14 ais523 played Russian roulette with bullets in all the chambers 11:09:40 it's more to the expanse of the old USSR, with a few ICBMs thrown in. 11:09:41 :( 11:09:58 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:10:04 it was a big revolver, one chamber for each file in wisdom? 11:10:14 * int-e may be stretching the analogy too far 11:10:38 . o O ( I need a bigger gun ) 11:10:42 wisdom entries stretched and ripped asunder by a pack of horses. 11:10:54 . o O ( Atomic horses in bullet chambers ) 11:11:06 does `revert accept commit ids? like... accbc9c5c7ec 11:11:14 `help revert 11:11:14 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 11:11:25 `revert accbc9c5c7ec 11:11:32 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 11:11:47 `? boily 11:11:48 boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. 11:11:55 I EXIST! 11:12:16 thint-e ^^ 11:12:53 `? to-be-deleted 11:12:53 to-be-deleted? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:13:38 oh "commit id" <-- I guess I just gave away the fact that I'm more of a git user. 11:17:56 and still doesn't work because it's all one line 11:18:15 a bit of an understatement, there 11:19:32 git reset --hard HEAD^^ ← even git itself is happy to just scrounge away double-barreled commits. 11:30:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HAMPERED CHICKEN). 11:31:50 `touch frotz 11:31:52 No output. 11:31:55 `touch xyzzy 11:31:57 No output. 11:32:05 `revert -3 11:32:05 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 11:33:35 `revert tip~2 11:33:36 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 11:34:33 uhm. 11:34:39 `ls frotz xyzzy 11:34:40 ls: cannot access frotz xyzzy: No such file or directory 11:34:45 `` ls frotz xyzzy 11:34:46 ls: cannot access frotz: No such file or directory \ ls: cannot access xyzzy: No such file or directory 11:37:28 `rm canary 11:37:29 No output. 11:39:47 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 11:43:50 the behavior of `revert is strange. 11:44:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:11:46 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:14:21 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 12:18:45 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:24:37 -!- olsner has joined. 12:28:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:28:16 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:38:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:38:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:39:03 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:40:23 -!- atehwa has joined. 12:40:36 -!- villasukka has joined. 12:47:42 <\oren\> where's my coffee?!?! 12:49:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:50:10 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:50:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:51:48 -!- villasukka has joined. 12:52:36 -!- atehwa has joined. 12:55:03 -!- ashl has joined. 12:55:22 > [1..] 12:55:24 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... 12:56:52 let me guess, ais523's rampage broke all the symbolic links in wisdom/ again 12:57:08 oerjan: it was intended to delete entries in wisdom/ at random 12:57:11 but it didn't work 12:57:16 it may or may not have done something else instead 12:57:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: getting food). 12:58:08 @tell ais523 so instead of one thing i don't approve of, it did something far worse, check. 12:58:08 Consider it noted. 12:58:36 -!- SopaXT has joined. 12:59:08 lambdabot: prepare to be recompiled! 12:59:14 ooh 12:59:59 `` ls -l wisdom/real 13:00:06 I didn't have time for this when ghc-7.10.2 was released. 13:00:10 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 86 Jun 18 05:10 wisdom/real 13:00:34 <\oren\> if angluar js allows me to use made-up tags, can I use tags? 13:00:50 `cat wisdom/real 13:00:52 The reals are an overt complete ordered Brazilian currency invented by Taneb in 1994. 13:01:07 wait what 13:01:08 <\oren\> `? js 13:01:09 js? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:01:13 <\oren\> `? java 13:01:15 java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 13:01:16 `` ls -l wisdom/real 13:01:17 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 86 Jun 18 05:10 wisdom/real 13:01:38 <\oren\> `? javascrept 13:01:39 javascrept? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:01:41 <\oren\> `? javascript 13:01:42 javascript? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:02:00 oh. the repository browser lies even more thoroughly. 13:02:26 it does? 13:02:31 <\oren\> does someone own the .js TLD yet? 13:02:35 `rm canary 13:02:37 No output. 13:03:29 \oren\: I thought the two-letter tlds were reserved for countries 13:03:45 <\oren\> Jahangir Siddiqui, a PAkistani finance company. lame 13:04:08 <\oren\> int-e: apparently not 13:04:18 joint statement, joining sequences 13:04:54 today, i saw i vague possibility of the start of a period of relative tranquility in my life. and sure, just as i returned from the dentist, i find carpenters starting to rearrange the outside of the building because they _still_ haven't managed to repair that leak that was here when i moved in two years ago. 13:04:59 *a 13:05:03 juggling skunk (code-name for ubuntu 83) 13:05:13 * oerjan also saw a vague possibility of spelling that line right. 13:06:04 <\oren\> i don't see a spelling mistake 13:06:28 this time, one of them claimed they'd actually _found_ the leak, which i guess is progress. 13:06:43 \oren\: it's a small word 13:06:50 <\oren\> oh 13:07:26 It's hidden among the mis-capitalized I's. 13:08:04 <\oren\> Ⅰ is the bast miscapitalized I. 13:08:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:08:29 oerjan: sorry about what I did to wisdom/ 13:08:30 <\oren\> his523 13:08:31 I was just really annoyed 13:08:44 I guess I'm upset about what this channel has become 13:08:51 int-e: the repository browser claimed to have restored wisdom/real listing the original symbolic link target, but it just copied the contents 13:08:52 I tolerate the quotes because at least they're often actually funny 13:08:53 <\oren\> awesome? 13:09:24 I was also assuming that `revert would work and thus it couldn't do real damage, but perhaps I was wrong 13:09:43 oerjan: ah. 13:09:58 ais523: `revert is ... somewhat unpredictable. 13:10:21 (at least to me; maybe oerjan or Gregor actually understand it) 13:10:22 * oerjan thinks he may have had a bit too much painkiller, he cannot think straight 13:11:24 <\oren\> ⅛¼⅜½⅝¾⅞ 13:11:56 `unidecode Ⅰ 13:11:59 ​[U+2160 ROMAN NUMERAL ONE] 13:14:21 `` rm canary wisdom/real 13:14:22 No output. 13:14:27 `` ls -la wisdom/real 13:14:29 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 86 Aug 13 13:14 wisdom/real 13:16:50 `` ls -la wisdom/the\ reals 13:16:51 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 4 Jun 6 16:18 wisdom/the reals -> real 13:17:06 oerjan: ah. 13:17:36 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 13:18:08 wait wat 13:18:13 > 1 -- broken? 13:18:14 mueval-core: GhcException "cannot satisfy -package comonad\n (use -v for ... 13:18:34 > 1 13:18:35 mueval-core: GhcException "cannot satisfy -package comonad\n (use -v for ... 13:18:37 you cannot do arithmetic without comonads, obvious fact. 13:19:22 oh. I should've backed up that other file, too 13:19:25 oh well :) 13:20:46 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:21:47 > 1 13:21:48 1 13:22:27 @messages- 13:22:27 boily said 12h 45m 5s ago: IOU one swatter 13:25:19 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:26:54 <\oren\> I've added black chess pieces. if you want white ones, use a white color. 13:28:02 <\oren\> that applies to all symbols. there aren't enough pixels in my font to draw an outline for all these 13:29:01 oerjan: if you've actually had more painkiller than the maximum shown on the packet, you should consult a doctor or pharmacist immediately 13:29:17 if it's within the bounds on the packet but it's preventing you thinking straight anyway, you should probably reduce the dose in future 13:29:27 i didn't, but i had both my own painkillers + 2 shots from the dentist 13:29:41 err, hmm, that could be a problem in its own right 13:29:51 did the dentist say which painkiller was in use? 13:29:54 <\oren\> Ooh... drug interactions. 13:30:26 it's listed on the receipt, i could check 13:30:56 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 13:31:08 gah, why does ghc-7.10.2 ship with vector-0.11.0.0 (7.10.1 shipped with 0.10.12.2)... 13:31:10 septocaine 13:31:43 in any case, i didn't have problem on previous dentist visits, but this time he did two teeths at once in different parts of the mouth 13:31:46 *-s 13:32:08 I have no idea about the drug reactions in this case 13:32:12 *interactions 13:33:37 -!- mauris_ has joined. 13:34:42 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:35:01 -!- villasukka has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:35:36 i found a web page which lists interaction with some antidepressants; nothing relevant. 13:35:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:36:02 * oerjan is not overly worried anyhow 13:36:06 well, not about that. 13:36:33 -!- atehwa has joined. 13:36:36 -!- villasukka has joined. 13:37:30 \oren\: the thing about chess pieces is that you need to be able to show _both_ colors of chess piece on _both_ colors of chess square... 13:38:14 so just reverting colors won't be enough 13:41:19 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris. 13:43:33 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:44:32 chess variant where one player owns all the pieces on white squares etc. 13:44:39 ooh 13:46:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 13:48:40 Masked images for the chess pieces. They you can just reverse the colour (and the mask if you wish) 13:53:21 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb, hopefully). 13:55:18 mauris: that chess variant sounds interesting 13:55:30 sigh, typical. 13:55:32 > 1 13:58:30 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:00:41 > fix show 14:00:43 mueval-core: GhcException "cannot satisfy -package lens\n (use -v for mor... 14:02:56 yeah, that's what I meant. I keep forgetting that package on updates 14:04:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:04:14 -!- mauris_ has joined. 14:07:15 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:17:16 > 1 14:17:19 1 14:18:57 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to }{FISH}. 14:23:07 -!- nycs has joined. 14:25:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:36:34 -!- rg_ has joined. 14:43:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 14:49:03 sigh. https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/blob/freenode/patches/dlist-0.7.1.1.patch 14:50:44 somebody (tm) should work on https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9724 14:51:32 anyway, I haven't had lunch yet... later 14:51:49 -!- rg__ has joined. 14:55:00 -!- rg_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:59:24 int-e: agreed hth 15:05:38 -!- rg__ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:06:38 -!- rg_ has joined. 15:12:28 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…). 19:02:55 -!- rg_ has joined. 19:04:59 ah that explains how my SO answer got so many upvotes 19:05:07 (the question got reddited) 19:06:22 Which? 19:07:18 https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3grgya/how_atomic_are_ghcs_thunks/ 19:07:42 -!- rg_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:09:32 28 isn't that many upvotes, really 19:09:51 well it's more than i usually get 19:10:09 that's why oerjan is fishing for those premium #esoteric upvotes hth 19:10:33 i would upvote you if i was logged in 19:10:43 but i'm using the wrong computer 19:10:50 -!- _256Q has joined. 19:10:52 I can't even remember my account details 19:11:00 I don't have a StackOverflow account 19:11:06 good, good, because that's _not_ why i mentioned it. 19:11:11 i should go upvote kmc instead for writing that post 19:11:17 where by upvote i mean hug 19:11:17 shachaf: good idea 19:11:42 you're still within hug distance of kmc? 19:12:12 I do not think I am within hug distance of anyone in this channel 19:12:33 oerjan: no, i'm in new york 19:12:42 aww 19:12:42 home of the new york haskell compiler 19:12:50 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 19:13:10 that means you're within hug distance of Taneb hth 19:13:17 oerjan, can you go on a viking raid or something so I am within hug distance of someone 19:13:30 doubtful 19:13:33 Taneb: why don't you come to new york instead 19:13:37 it's only three letters away 19:13:45 shachaf, I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy 19:13:46 but hurry because i'm leaving in two days 19:13:53 I even wear a tie in my day to day life sometimes 19:14:28 shachaf: it's the intermediate space that's the problem hth 19:15:09 Taneb: I still wear a tie whenever I wear a suit 19:15:11 Taneb: well how will i hug you then 19:15:15 even though my boss thinks that that's a bad idea for some reason 19:15:22 what's the pair of place names with the highest (geographical distance / edit distance) 19:15:22 I told him it'd be weird wearing a suit if I wasn't wearing a tie 19:15:24 The tie or the suit? 19:15:28 Taneb: do you ever wear a bowtie outside your hoodie twh 19:15:41 oerjan, yes, on occasion 19:15:42 mauris_: there are tons of duplicated place names, which each manage +inf on that scale 19:15:52 I am afraid it is a velcro bow tie rather than a proper one 19:15:57 Because I don't know how to tie them 19:16:06 you should ask spj hth 19:16:08 I prefer wearing a tie, though 19:16:44 * int-e growls at oerjan for linking to reddit rather than the original source 19:16:55 ais523, good point 19:17:21 the Hollywood in Birmingham, UK is much less glitzy than the US place witht the same name 19:17:53 I have never been to either, to my memory 19:18:10 you'd be unlikely to go via the one in Birmingham because it now has a bypass 19:18:25 so the only reason to go there would be if it were an endpoint of your journey, which is statistically unlikely because it's so small 19:18:28 I am not often in that end of the country 19:18:49 Birmingham's kind of out of the way for someone who mostly spends my time in the North East and Yorkshire 19:19:07 ignoring infinities, to beat south pole vs. north pole, you need two places with 1 edit distance more than half the globe apart 19:19:08 I went up to Edinburgh sometimes too 19:19:23 Taneb: Birminghm isn't in an end of the country, it's in the middle (at least if you interpret "country" = "England" and not "UK") 19:19:35 I was using end in a more figurative sense 19:19:53 apparently, to a Londoner, even Birmingham is "up north" 19:20:08 so I'm unsurprised a resident of York considers it to be excessively south 19:20:10 ais523, I consider York to be "down south" 19:20:18 haha :-) 19:20:40 But when I'm being more serious I do admit the midlands are a place that exist 19:20:59 you're already doing better than most people, then :-( 19:21:21 I think I even went to them once 19:21:55 most country-wide transport companies (buses, trains, etc.) are headquartered in Birmingham, because it's one of the most convenient places to get to and from 19:22:05 int-e: i did it on the same principle according to which i wouldn't link to an arxiv pdf: the other option does not include a link to the first 19:22:06 oerjan: here's a contender: nil river [guatemala] to nile river [india] 19:22:30 ais523, York is about as convenient, I think, but somewhat smaller, and further from London 19:23:02 Taneb: well it's hard to get to from anywhere in the south of the country 19:23:26 Direct trains to London like every 15 minutes during the day 19:23:35 whereas Birmingham is a good place if you want to reduce average journey times to random places in England (and even if you count the whole UK, it isn't terrible if you weight by population) 19:23:39 And Reading, and Southampton 19:23:48 Hourly or so 19:23:50 we have three competing train operators all doing frequent direct trains to London 19:24:03 But I think I am biased to the north 19:24:05 among other things 19:24:07 Taneb: the real question is when are we going to hug it out twh 19:24:09 oerjan: but there must be something better; I was curious whether a 'nil river' exists at all and got lucky :) 19:24:10 I was using end in a more figurative sense <-- like asimov? (explaining this further would be a spoiler) 19:24:25 oerjan, not that figurative 19:24:41 Taneb: well I'm one of the people who's happy to admit that the North exists and is relevant 19:24:53 even if I personally haven't been north of Sheffield (at least, not since I've been old enough to remember) 19:25:12 oerjan: also, perhaps pairs of longer names with the same edit distance should score better. 19:25:17 I haven't been south of Leeds since December, when I went to Australia 19:26:06 But almost all my train journeys are between Hexham, Newcastle, and York 19:26:18 Anyway I am going to go now 19:27:16 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 19:27:19 where, Leeds? Hexham? 19:27:20 off IRC? 19:34:24 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 19:35:23 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 19:41:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:42:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:03:33 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:41 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:32:45 has anyone done `olist yet? 20:32:48 today? 20:32:53 if not they probably should 20:33:52 -!- mihow has joined. 20:34:00 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:39:32 hmm, it's interesting to think about stuff like balls and circles under edit distance 20:40:43 how do you edit a circle? 20:41:36 i mean like: a circle around a word, under the metric formed by edit distance 20:42:09 C(cat, 1) = {ca, ct, at, aat, bat, ...} 20:43:16 i wonder if you can "circumscribe" every set of words, i.e. find a word that has equal edit distance to all of them 20:48:47 i guess you just need to know how often words of what length occur 20:49:19 mauris_: the challenge is the smallest distance at that 20:49:42 i can find a word for every set if the dostance is as large as the largest word 20:52:01 i suppose it's trivially impossible if you have a one-character alphabet, rip 20:52:17 like "a" and "aa" and "aaaa" can't share a center 20:54:52 oh, yeah, didn't tjought of a limited alphabet 20:55:58 if you have an infinitely large alphabet 20:56:11 you can do it using a word that's longer than any of the other words and has no characters in common 20:56:24 exactly 20:58:04 [wiki] [[Ultimate Programming Language to Take Over a Prison, Then He World]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43725&oldid=43712 * Iisu * (+1354) Minor fixes, added multiplication, added a Hello world program 20:58:33 you could try minimizing that by building a trie or the like 21:00:30 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43726&oldid=43648 * Iisu * (+73) /* U */ 21:00:36 ais523, I felt like playing CKII for a bit 21:00:52 hmm, how far south is that? 21:01:30 -!- GeoDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 21:03:37 It's in York 21:03:47 Which apparently is in the Petty Kingdom of Strathclyde 21:03:56 I like the name "petty kingdom" 21:04:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: going home). 21:04:43 -!- mihow_ has joined. 21:07:18 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:07:18 -!- mihow_ has changed nick to mihow. 21:07:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:19 `` olist 998 # nope, i didn't see no one do nothing 21:09:29 olist 998: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 21:12:20 Actually, in my CKII game, the Petty Kingdom of Strathclyde is *only* York 21:27:10 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:31:03 oots prediction: durkon's presence swings the vote. 21:32:58 towards the most dangerous option... 21:35:40 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 21:37:53 oerjan: and there i was thinking his presence would be insignificant 21:40:29 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:44:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:50:26 shachaf: you don't say. 21:51:01 well ok the real twist is that it's the option roy just tried to argue for. 21:54:50 Hmm, I seem to be doing the thing where I forget to do everything again 21:55:06 keep breathing, Taneb 21:55:14 That one's easy 21:55:25 good, good 21:55:35 Eating is a bit harder 21:55:45 Taneb: did the latest olist take your breath away 21:55:56 It might, if I read Order of the Stick 21:56:35 I have not, however, so it does not 21:56:51 another thing on the list of things you're forgetting to do 21:57:34 I am going to deal with other ones first 21:57:37 Like laundry 21:58:04 And going outside 22:03:40 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: thunderstorm). 22:03:58 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 22:11:50 -!- boily has joined. 22:26:03 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:28:37 -!- staffehn has joined. 22:47:08 I swear, every time I update the wisdom for some reason or another, there's a new Tanebvention. 22:49:43 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:50:03 <\oren\> helloily! 22:51:21 `? tanebventions 22:51:22 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex. 22:51:37 Taneb: Is that true? 22:51:51 -!- mihow has joined. 22:52:03 <\oren\> uh, the universe involves a lot of sex... 22:53:29 `? the universe 22:53:31 The universe was invented by Taneb as an opposing force to oerjan. 23:03:14 Sex runs a few layers of abstraction running above that of the universe. 23:04:57 I guess his inventions perform plasmid exchange instead. 23:10:02 -!- ethiraric has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1). 23:11:12 hell\oren\! 23:11:33 Taneb: Tanelle. do you exchange plasmids regularly? if so, you may be an unicellular creature. 23:12:07 (for the record, I got nothing against unicellular protists. they're as thwackable as anything else.) 23:13:38 also, ♪ fresh new PDF version with about all the alphabet covered, and some more ♪ 23:13:45 I still need to update the quotes. 23:17:06 -!- Melvar has joined. 23:18:15 -!- impomatic_ has left. 23:19:06 -!- idris-bot has joined. 23:22:18 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:22:56 -!- mihow has joined. 23:37:02 why did google bring back underlines 23:38:20 the underlings demanded it 23:38:33 underlines? 23:38:34 cheloppro. it's to support their links hth 23:38:47 hellørjan. Sgello. hellochaf, and MDudello. 23:39:13 boillo 23:39:52 helloillo 23:43:46 <\oren\> I want to start a mutual fund where the manager is literally a chimpanzee. 23:45:07 a literary ape? 23:45:32 <\oren\> or maybe a gorilla or a bonboo or somthing 23:45:48 Ape X Investing 23:46:28 boilà 23:47:33 * oerjan steals boily's mapole and *THWACKS* MDude 23:47:58 <\oren\> my point is we will buy the companies that the monkey throws the least shit at 23:48:28 right, I own you a swatter. 23:48:37 Instead of just logos, there should be live feeds of news on each company. 23:48:40 * oerjan calls it 2, 4, 6... 23:49:02 * boily gives oerjan a nice mahogany/carballoy swatter and grabs back his trusty mapole 23:49:28 um this is not The Swatter 23:49:43 * oerjan rummages in boily's drawers 23:51:06 * oerjan makes sounds like a fly 23:51:16 ah, there 23:51:16 it's taped to my mapole. 23:51:51 ಠ_ಠ 23:51:51 ¯|¯⌠ 23:51:52 /< | 23:52:00 `thanks myndzi 23:52:00 Thanks, myndzi. Thyndzi. 23:52:03 <\oren\> "Our Chimpanzee-based investing strategy gives you exposure to primate-friendly markets with a range of yields." 23:52:30 oerjan: ^^'... 23:52:50 wat 23:53:32 * oerjan hires a SWAT team 23:53:58 you won't get me alive! 23:54:03 * boily hides behind a moose 23:54:26 * oerjan uses his trusty moose whistle to start a stampede 23:54:51 * oerjan quickly swaps the swatters in the confusion 23:55:16 noooooooooooooon! 23:56:59 i'm sorry but it's definitely _not_ noon, but more than an hour after midnight 23:57:45 ... 2015-08-14: 00:02:51 -!- digitalcold has quit (Quit: WOW UPGRADING STUFF. NICE). 00:03:45 whoa whoa whoa 00:03:50 oerjan is deswattered? 00:05:30 NOT ANY MORE 00:06:24 -!- digitalcold has joined. 00:11:47 drat and double drat 00:11:53 there goes my chance 00:12:48 :t flip _2 00:12:49 (Functor f, Field2 s t a b) => s -> (a -> f b) -> f t 00:14:33 Lens s w a t 00:14:36 Field2 s w a t 00:14:39 dammit shachaf 00:15:06 mauris_: looj i invented s t a b 00:15:41 oh right whoa 00:17:03 who invented looj 00:17:25 that depends 00:17:54 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Quit). 00:18:37 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:18:45 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 00:18:45 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:22:12 shachaf, a.k.a. Looj the First 00:22:28 i was not the first person to use it 00:22:33 but probably i shouldn't even be using it in here 00:22:41 it's oerjanspeak, anyway 00:27:11 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:41 shachaf is royalty? 00:28:03 and how does one pronounce the “j” in looj? 00:31:10 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 00:35:37 -!- digitalcold has quit (Quit: this awl version is crap...). 00:36:02 -!- digitalcold has joined. 00:36:19 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 00:37:18 -!- mihow has joined. 00:37:38 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 00:44:34 <\oren\> Hmm. I'mma make a variant of my font where \ and ¥ are swapped, for nefarious purposes 00:49:07 <\oren\> eh, never mind 00:51:00 -l login_name 00:51:07 What's wrong with login_name@server ? 00:54:13 Well, I guess if you're using ssh in an automated fashion it could be useful 00:55:52 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Quit). 00:56:12 -!- Jafet has joined. 01:02:45 <\oren\> what if your username has @ in it 01:05:51 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 01:08:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:19:14 \oren\: that is unacceptable! 01:19:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FERENGI CHICKEN). 01:33:56 -!- mihow has joined. 01:40:33 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:44:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: GALLVS NOCTVRNIS). 02:02:59 -!- variable has joined. 02:14:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:15:30 <\oren\> I just finished Runic, which unicode block should I do next? 02:22:13 \oren\: are you making a font 02:23:34 a font of knowledge 02:35:04 <\oren\> yup 02:35:15 <\oren\> 1955 characters done 02:40:50 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:56:29 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 02:56:53 -!- mihow has joined. 02:56:53 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 03:04:16 -!- rg_ has joined. 03:32:44 -!- llue has joined. 03:32:44 -!- llue has quit (Changing host). 03:32:44 -!- llue has joined. 03:33:47 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:33:59 -!- j-bot has joined. 03:34:35 -!- trn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:30 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:36:46 -!- trn has joined. 03:52:41 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:53:36 -!- rg_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:11:39 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:27:14 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 04:29:50 <\oren\> ᚠᚡᚢᚣᚤᚥᚦᚧᚨᚩᚪᚫᚬᚭᚮᚯᚰᚱᚲᚳᚴᚵᚶᚷᚸᚹᚺᚻᚼᚽᚾᚿ 04:31:28 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm 04:35:45 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:42:14 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:44:58 i like it, keep going 04:48:01 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:57:23 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:05:31 <\oren\> myname: which symbols should I add next? 05:07:03 -!- Skin has joined. 05:07:23 Can someone tell me what language this is https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.c/blob/Master/Source/Nuketypes/execution/Script.c 05:07:33 that's a good question 05:07:44 Someone sent this to me out of no where and I'm honestly confused 05:08:07 uhm... C? 05:08:40 Ye 05:10:47 Never used C 05:10:57 yes that is C, one of the oldest languages still in use today 05:11:48 also there's this thing https://github.com/ELLIOTTCABLE/Paws.c/search?l=c 05:14:10 <\oren\> it's C but formatted in a screwy manner 05:14:46 C is basically meant to be formatted screwily 05:14:56 ... right? 05:17:34 <\oren\> no. there are standard ways to format C code so it can be read fluently 05:19:21 the .c at the end could have been a clue 05:38:13 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 05:50:25 * ashl tries to remember something which was written in a bizarre dialect of C where they had ifdef'd return to R and so on 05:52:31 Bourne shell? 05:54:35 I guess not. 05:54:38 J? 05:54:40 don't think so... this is going to drive me nuts. 05:55:15 http://www.nsl.com/papers/origins.htm 05:55:40 YES 05:55:42 thank you 05:55:55 how did you find that 05:56:13 I've worked through most of that implementation with someone before. 05:56:22 Though I don't remember much about it now. 05:56:27 Something about boxes being strange. 05:56:40 i was thinking 'it was something to do with APL' but that's nowhere near enough to actually google it :P 05:57:32 `welcome ashl 05:57:33 ashl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 05:58:23 ashl: it is, actually 06:00:05 That's true. 06:00:22 https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=apl+%22define+r+return%22 06:00:54 I guess that trick doesn't work if you're expecting ifdef. 06:01:16 yeah i have no idea where ifdef came from 06:01:40 apl ascii is also a good choice to find J iirc 06:02:14 well, it came from having just woken up and not having had any coffee yet 06:02:20 so i'm going to make some coffee. 06:05:50 myname: Sure, but presumably they weren't looking for J but for some strange C program vaguely related to APL. 06:05:57 <\oren\> I often #define ei else if 06:06:33 <\oren\> and #define bcase break;case 06:12:12 makes sense i guess 06:21:06 i often avoid writing c 06:21:31 makes sense i guess 06:35:10 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 06:37:31 -!- Skin has quit (Quit: Fuck me). 06:38:30 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:58:55 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:00:47 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:05:31 https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona/ This does similar things too ashl 07:08:10 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 07:10:51 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 07:11:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:11:38 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 07:13:39 synthesis of APL and lisp heh 07:14:32 -!- MoALTz_ has changed nick to MoALTz. 07:20:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:39:16 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:15:04 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:27:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:34:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:55:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:59:52 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 10:06:55 -!- Froox has joined. 10:10:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:27:54 -!- hilquias has joined. 10:29:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:32:43 -!- boily has joined. 10:37:58 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 11:05:13 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:09:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 11:26:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:28:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHIMMERING CHICKEN). 11:37:07 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 12:16:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:18:41 "stack" is going on my nerves... when will people stop naming their stuff by common words... 12:20:24 . o O ( Go swift, stack! ) 12:20:53 int-e: all the uncommon words are taken hth 12:22:29 . o O ( The vacuum containers cabal strikes again. ) 12:31:52 int-e: they tried to suggest a renaming, but it was refused... 12:32:06 "they"? 12:32:15 https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3d3e95/please_rename_stack_to_haystack/ 12:32:55 oh that would be a rather nice name. 12:35:40 Deewiant: thanks for the link 12:39:40 np 12:41:11 <\oren\> is "salmon" acceptable? 12:44:36 \oren\: as long as you're not using it for some kind of food, cutlery or dishes... 12:44:42 (that isn't salmon) 12:46:58 <\oren\> "salmon" is the language some of my work is done in. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Salmon 12:48:29 For the first time ever I have solved a Rubik's Cube! 12:48:56 <\oren\> Taneb: congratulation 12:50:01 did you use group theory 12:50:10 For this, I did not 12:50:16 I followed a tutorial I found on the internet 12:50:30 Although I can definitely see how group theory could be used 12:52:29 Taneb: One can explain conjugate elements on a Rubik's cube :) 12:52:43 * oerjan notes that Hacker News's font size is so awkward to adjust right that it's become the first site he turns off CSS entirely for 12:54:10 [if you have a combination that swaps three particular edge pieces, but you want to swap three different edge pieces, you can first make some moves to adjust their positions, then use the combination, then undo the moves you performed initially; algebraically: A C A^-1, A = adjustment; C = combination) 12:55:01 oops, sorry, I disturbed the natural balance. (] 12:55:05 You can do a lot of group theory with a rubik's cube 12:55:30 someone should make a puzzle whose group is the monster 12:55:37 it's just that I like the conjugate explanation best. 12:55:39 Like, if you mess up a rubik's cube, then keep messing it up IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, you eventually get back to the start position 12:55:47 i suppose that might be a bit hard to solve 12:56:33 and the larger cubes are actually a (permutation) group acting on the cube's surface, because they have indistinguishable pieces. 12:58:16 Taneb: i've done that with the "rotate one face, then rotate the whole cube" operation. i think it took somewhere between 1000 and 2000 repetitions. 12:58:42 rotate one face 180 degrees too, that's much faster and has pretty patterns 12:59:50 * oerjan briefly wonders if the no. of repetitions for 90 degrees + whole cube depends on which directions you choose 13:00:16 well, the two nontrivial options 13:01:33 Taneb: oh and there's also a use for commutators, though mainly because they tend to result in very short cycles. 13:02:07 because if really? 13:02:10 er 13:02:11 really? 13:02:18 (try (r u r' u')^3) 13:02:23 because i can see why conjugates would, but not commutators 13:03:41 i vaguely thought commutators are useful for getting combinations that avoid moving certain cubelets 13:04:31 because anything that's left untouched by one of the two elements doesn't move overall 13:04:42 yeah 13:09:36 * oerjan concludes the two nontrivial ways of "rotating 90 degrees first a face, then the whole cube in a nonparallel direction" are conjugate 13:10:13 through 180 degree parallel rotation 13:10:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:40:22 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:47:16 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:48:40 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 13:48:57 -!- lleu has joined. 13:48:57 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 13:48:57 -!- lleu has joined. 14:06:26 > foldl lcm 1 [1,4,1,3,12,9,10,14] 14:06:27 1260 14:06:44 somewhere between 1000 and 2000 indeed. 14:08:37 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:32:18 i may have looked up that number sometime 14:44:06 -!- SopaXorzRaker has joined. 14:44:30 -!- SopaXorzRaker has changed nick to SopaXorzTaker. 14:44:52 -!- augur has joined. 14:48:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Läter). 14:54:36 * mroman is watching last week tonight 14:55:16 All these shows make me think that america is actually very poor. 14:55:29 the people there at least. 14:56:20 a woman can't pay a 41$ fee 14:57:03 America, to my knowledge, is a country with a lot of money in a few bank accounts 14:57:41 Well I feel really rich now :) 14:58:00 :D 14:58:05 I could pay 250 of those each month and I wouldn't give a shit about it. 14:58:14 -!- MDream has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:58:26 I wouldn't even notice that 14:58:42 > 41 * 250 14:58:44 10250 14:58:49 oh 14:58:50 wait 14:58:53 right 14:58:56 Jeez you are rich 14:58:58 no 14:59:03 > 41*254 14:59:04 10414 14:59:05 > 41*25 14:59:06 1025 14:59:17 I'm bad with numbers 14:59:26 I could pay 250 of those 14:59:35 but only every year :) 14:59:47 I meant to say 25 14:59:49 well 14:59:51 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 14:59:53 I FEEL LESS RICH NOW THX TANEB 14:59:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:00:10 but still rich enough :p 15:00:10 You're welcome :) 15:00:31 "Taneb: Making you feel less rich since 1970" 15:00:48 Seeing as I was born in 1994 that is quite impressive 15:00:53 yeah 15:00:58 In 1970 both my parents turned 7 15:01:01 You're so bad you did evil even before you were born. 15:01:11 I think my mum was living in Pakistan, and my dad was in Australia 15:01:24 1994? 15:01:37 I thought you were older. 15:01:42 No, I'm only 20 15:02:10 Just I've been hanging out in here since I was 15 or so 15:03:44 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:03:58 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:04:00 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:10:25 -!- Wright has joined. 15:35:16 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 15:39:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:02:52 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:16:43 Random trivia: I can sort of run backwards 16:18:02 do you mean you can moonwalk quickly 16:18:19 No, I can't moonwalk at all 16:18:25 But I can run backwards 16:19:22 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:22:55 -!- TieSoul has joined. 16:23:22 `quote prose 16:23:23 1137) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 16:24:44 `quote 16:24:45 944) * fungot has joined #esoteric woohoo! the one and only fungot is back! boily: damn your mother! ok. never saw that one coming. 16:24:51 :D 16:25:00 `pastequotes 16:25:03 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.8487 16:27:59 'U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O' 16:28:01 wat 16:33:59 ashl: it's one of the more popular unicode codepoints around here 16:34:31 i see 16:34:31 Very versatile 16:35:26 has it made it into any esolangs 16:35:46 diligent, too... always watching 16:37:27 somehow, making the same mistake over and over again makes it really hard to solve some puzzles... 16:39:21 ( http://nikoli.com/swf/sl.swf?loadUrl=/nfp/sl-1269.nfp&lang=1 ... finally got it. ) 16:39:21 (input):1:8: error: unexpected 16:39:22 Operator without known fixity: 16:39:22 ://, expected: space 16:39:22 http://nikoli.com/swf/sl.swf?loadUrl=/nfp/sl-1269.nfp&lang=1 ... finally got i> 16:39:22 ^ 16:39:36 hah. 16:39:38 * ashl blinks 16:39:46 idris-bot: a little eager perhaps? 16:40:15 (sorry, I should've put some non-space after the opening parenthesis) 16:41:48 > http://nikoli.com/swf/sl.swf?loadUrl=/nfp/sl-1269.nfp&lang=1 16:41:50 :1:59: parse error on input ‘=’ 16:42:00 hmm, a tad less verbose in this case :) 16:45:16 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 16:46:44 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 17:01:59 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:49:51 Jafet: do you read olist 17:57:20 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:57:23 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 18:00:27 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 18:08:16 Yesterday I was on the ifMUD and I had a 69105-dimensional mapping tool, and I was also reading the dreaming channel. And then I was updating my "dream.txt" file, and then when I saved it I noticed that the file is exactly 69105 bytes long! 18:08:39 <|f`-`|f> what 18:18:41 -!- mauris_ has joined. 18:47:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:48:19 -!- hilquias has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:49:05 -!- mauris__ has joined. 18:51:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:52:15 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:09:49 -!- Froo has joined. 19:10:45 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:14:14 -!- nycs has joined. 19:16:11 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:16:19 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 19:24:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:27:05 |f`-`|f: not a fan of 69105-dimensional mapping? 19:30:02 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 19:30:10 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 19:30:10 -!- mauris has joined. 19:38:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:54:55 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:47 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43727&oldid=42649 * 4D enthusiast * (-33) /* stdtime */ altered behaviour of pause and ms commands 19:59:51 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:04:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:05:31 [wiki] [[Object oriented thue]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43728&oldid=43727 * 4D enthusiast * (+0) Added link to an interpreter 20:10:33 [wiki] [[User:4D enthusiast]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43729&oldid=34256 * 4D enthusiast * (+146) 20:12:09 A "JazzJackrabbit" game has .PSM files it seems to be music files is there a document of format of such file? 20:12:44 Well, libmodplug seem to be able to play it, whatever it is. 20:13:05 zzo38: http://justsolve.archiveteam.org/wiki/Epic_Megagames_MASI 20:14:26 OK thanks 20:16:06 -!- mauris has joined. 20:16:30 -!- aretecode has joined. 20:21:47 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 20:23:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:31:23 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 20:35:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:46:43 -!- mauris_ has joined. 20:49:41 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:53:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 21:19:33 ( http://nikoli.com/swf/sl.swf?loadUrl=/nfp/sl-1269.nfp&lang=1 ... finally got it. ) <-- argh what are the rules 21:19:47 also, i hate timer on puzzles. 21:19:50 *timers 21:21:58 oh that one. 21:57:01 -!- rg_ has joined. 22:02:01 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:03:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 22:08:15 * oerjan determines nikoli's interface does _not_ sanely combine with touchpad tapping 22:18:10 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:20:17 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:30:11 -!- izabera has joined. 22:53:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:55:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:56:55 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:59:44 <\oren\> ꙮ 23:00:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:08:53 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:11:02 <\oren\> quote 489) is the moment #esoteric became the dwarf fortress channel 23:12:42 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:15:04 `quote 489 23:15:05 489) FFS, building a perpetual motion machine should not be this hard. 23:18:17 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 23:18:34 -!- lleu has joined. 23:18:45 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 23:18:45 -!- lleu has joined. 23:42:30 -!- rg_ has joined. 23:46:36 i swear we had df quotes from before that 23:46:41 `quote steelromanced 23:46:42 577) http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED 23:46:50 amazed that hasn't been culled 23:51:17 `quote mayor 23:51:18 527) Mayor says we need to make aluminum items Taneb, PH says you need to make lava items. 23:51:43 `quote pointy steel 23:51:43 466) Maybe if you try diplomacy. Pointy steel diplomacy 23:51:49 I think that was DF 23:52:17 Anyway I am going to bed now 23:54:02 [wiki] [[POGAACK]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43730&oldid=42648 * Xavo * (-4) 2015-08-15: 00:12:05 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:13:18 <\oren\> In my font I encoded 7-segment display numbers as ①②③④⑤⑥⑦⑧⑨⑩⑪⑫⑬⑭⑮⑯⑰⑱⑲⑳ 00:20:33 <\oren\> I think I'll make up random uses for the other useless unicode characters 00:25:49 There is also the private areas if they are needed. And then if you need even more, you can also use the codes outside of Unicode range, although this is not guaranteed to work with all programs if you do that! 00:25:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:26:01 -!- rg_ has joined. 00:26:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:20:13 -!- silentsparrow has joined. 01:47:59 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:00:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:30 <\oren\> f 02:07:17 -!- fekwjfljflejlfj has joined. 02:08:36 -!- fekwjfljflejlfj has left. 02:09:39 * silentsparrow wgah'nagl fhtagn 02:15:15 silentsparrow: http://www.mezzacotta.net/pomh/?comic=29 02:15:18 I do not understand 02:16:42 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:16:56 :) 02:17:09 zzo38: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" .. -> "In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming." 02:20:30 <\oren\> So you are waiting and dreaming? 02:20:47 yes! ..:) i hoped to say that. 02:23:23 ..but you're right. it's just another pointless pop-cultural reference whispered into the void 02:29:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:31:51 <\oren\> have you watched haiyore! nyarko-san? 02:32:10 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:32:39 me? nope, sry. 02:34:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:42:26 i read it's been "inspired" by lovecraft's myth as well 02:51:28 the pen & paper game was kinda cool. unlike in all the other rpgs your character does not gain skills, but continuously loses his sanity 02:54:29 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: G'nite). 03:10:20 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:10:25 -!- Wright_ has joined. 03:17:57 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 03:37:29 -!- rg_ has joined. 03:42:25 -!- rg_ has changed nick to itpbot. 03:45:51 -!- itpbot has changed nick to rg_. 04:38:12 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:57:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:01:28 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 05:12:06 -!- silentsparrow has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 05:26:41 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 05:29:40 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 05:37:40 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:43:20 name it 06:01:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 06:11:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:24:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:25:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 06:43:18 -!- fowl has quit (Quit: zz). 06:58:29 -!- fowl has joined. 06:58:29 -!- fowl has quit (Changing host). 06:58:29 -!- fowl has joined. 06:58:30 -!- fowl has quit (Excess Flood). 07:08:13 [wiki] [[Talk:Malbrain]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43731&oldid=43001 * Rdebath * (+700) Add compiler to replace lost external 07:13:17 -!- fowl has joined. 07:15:33 I think some people using TeX will use external programs to make the index, sorting, bibliography, etc although I generally do these things within TeX (although running them on the older computers TeX was originally designed for may run it slowly or run out of memory) 07:39:33 The capacities of the TeX I am using are much larger than those in Computers & Typesetting volumes A and B (and the ones on page 383 of volume A are already "fairly large"); however even level20.tex does not seem to need more than the large TeX used in the example. 07:40:20 (But it is getting close, unlike the example where there is a lot more free!) 07:48:53 [wiki] [[Poison]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43732&oldid=37185 * Shubshub * (+92) Updated Download Link 08:03:30 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:39:09 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 08:46:02 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:11:01 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 09:13:45 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 09:46:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:49:22 -!- augur has joined. 10:18:20 [wiki] [[Glypho]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43733&oldid=19903 * Rdebath * (+904) Simple Turing completeness proof 10:25:06 -!- nink has joined. 10:29:57 -!- nink has left. 10:38:28 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 10:53:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:13:41 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 11:27:01 -!- fractal has joined. 11:38:17 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 11:44:05 -!- TieSoul has joined. 11:52:53 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 12:11:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:23:40 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:51:33 fungot: are you a traitorous heap of bytes? 12:51:33 int-e: did you see my laml elucidation of the subject. my brain probably can't cope with any fiction worth reading at the moment 12:51:51 I'll take that as a yes. 12:56:25 ? 12:57:33 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 12:58:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ProgramFOX * New user account 12:58:40 ashl: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20150814 might help 12:59:19 also I have a complicated relationship with fungot ;) 12:59:19 int-e: what is preventing you from doing something cool. we'll find a way to solve that. making bfirc getting stuck on kinda simple things 12:59:35 [wiki] [[Retina]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43734 * Martin Büttner * (+393) Created page with "'''Retina''' is a regex-based programming language. The main design goal of Retina is to be able to use regular expressions with as little boilerplate code as possible. It is ..." 13:00:25 especially its IRC style; it has an infuriating tendency of almost making sense 13:01:05 [wiki] [[Retina]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43735&oldid=43734 * Martin Büttner * (+96) 13:02:01 i see what you mean 13:02:15 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43736&oldid=43726 * Martin Büttner * (+35) 13:03:31 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:05:13 it never occurred to me you could write a bot in funge 13:05:20 an IRC bot i mean 13:05:40 [wiki] [[Marbelous]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43737&oldid=43194 * ProgramFOX * (+2) "Stack Exchange" has to be spelled with a space 13:09:08 -!- boily has joined. 13:09:43 alloxandre 13:17:09 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 13:18:21 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Client Quit). 13:22:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:23:05 bon matinhansen! 13:43:43 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:50:39 `wisdom 13:50:40 füngöt/Füngöt is the German pronunciation of fungot. 13:51:54 * ashl nods sagely 13:56:07 ashellol! 13:58:43 i can't think of a way to turn boily into a greeting, sorry :P 13:59:27 bonjourily? 14:00:24 there are multiple accepted pormanthelloes for my name. I think 'bohily' is canonical, but I always appreciate a French touch. 14:01:41 have you perused the PDF in the /topic? 14:01:43 duly noted 14:01:47 i have not 14:02:01 to be honest, i don't know how to scroll the topic in this client :P 14:03:15 fiendish 14:04:23 → https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf ← 14:04:50 thanks ;) 14:06:30 ashl: you can also use /topic to query the topic, I suspect 14:06:41 (works for irssi) 14:06:45 i don't know how to scroll the topic in mine either, although it's usually in the top of the channel window backscroll 14:06:51 or that. 14:09:12 /topic works, thanks. 15:15:45 <\oren\> ok apparently I didn't know either the pronounciation or the mean of the word "poignant" 15:16:36 <\oren\> it is poynyant, not poyg-nant 15:18:31 hell\oren\! learning French? 15:18:41 <\oren\> english, apparently 15:18:48 same thing. 15:18:54 <\oren\> basically. 15:28:31 the people who thought of that pronunciation should be thrown in gaol 15:30:51 * oerjan spots someone writing "space leek" 15:31:10 the Space Leek, Haskellman's nemesis 15:32:51 geôle. 15:32:57 `wisdom space leek 15:32:58 find: `wisdom/*space leek*': No such file or directory \ /cat: : No such file or directory 15:33:09 `? space leek 15:33:10 space leek? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 15:45:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:49:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:50:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: The SPAAAAAAAAACE Leek). 15:59:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:12:32 -!- tromp has joined. 16:15:05 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 16:19:22 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:19:29 -!- J_A_Work_ has joined. 16:24:59 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:35:51 helloily 16:36:38 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 16:37:21 <\oren\> quinthellopia 16:38:26 helloren. you stole his line! 16:39:46 -!- Wright has joined. 16:42:08 for my defense, I'm having lunch. 16:42:22 QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAA! 16:43:45 lunch eh 16:43:51 buoilyngiorno 16:43:55 i havent even breakfasted yet 16:44:20 quintopia, I had breakfast at 3PM 16:44:31 -!- rg_ has joined. 16:44:31 But I think I am in a different time zone to you 16:45:02 Tanelle. you live in UTC. 16:45:15 (Universal Taneb Compendium) 16:45:24 i think i live in boilyzone 16:45:57 quintopia: you live in boilyzone, with almost certainly the same DST rules. 16:46:19 boily, currently I'm in BST (Big Summer Taneb) 16:46:38 im glad you are more familiar with us time zones and geography than i am with canadian 16:46:39 <\oren\> I'm adding cursive to my font. the useless circled letter characters will be cursive. 16:47:02 where does canadian central time start 16:47:06 \oren\: whyyy 16:47:09 quintopia: saskatchewn 16:47:15 sic 16:47:30 sskchwn? 16:47:34 Saskatchewan, I think 16:47:45 it ends somewhere in ontario 16:47:49 <\oren\> because circled characters don't work in a 9x16 form facter 16:48:05 <\oren\> er, or 16x9? 16:48:12 where does mountain time start 16:48:23 <\oren\> it is 9 pixel wide and 16 high 16:49:14 im really confused 16:50:04 <\oren\> http://www.timetemperature.com/canada/catzmap.gif 16:50:13 `thanks \oren\ 16:50:14 Thanks, \oren\. Thoren\. 16:50:20 sskchwn seems too far west to still be central. 16:50:41 what are the eastern and western central borders 16:51:41 i'll guess alberta is mountain and BC is pacific and yukon is the next one before pacific 16:51:43 quintopia: sk doesn't use daylight savings 16:52:01 Ontario uses Central west of the 90 degree W meridian 16:52:05 no, yukon is pacific 16:52:10 -!- J_A_Work_ has quit (Quit: J_A_Work_). 16:52:15 what. provinces can opt out? 16:52:46 time is local jurisdiction 16:52:58 bits of BC also don't use DST 16:53:10 most of BC is pacific, except for that zone and a few areas near Alberta that are on Mountain 16:53:43 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 16:54:29 why is all of nwt in mountain. the eastern reaches look more central 16:54:43 <\oren\> essentially time can be decided by an individual town 16:54:50 i guess those parts are relatively uninhabited anyway 16:55:21 <\oren\> most of canada is uninhabited 16:55:22 quintopia: the whole thing is off 16:56:10 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2572317/Are-YOU-living-sync-Amazing-map-reveals-manmade-timezones-countries-false-sense-sun-rises.html 16:56:27 <\oren\> s/habited/habitable/ 16:56:49 most of Canada doesn't exist. 16:57:05 it's true 16:57:17 boily: got a sanbai the other day! 16:57:18 oren: i suspect all of cansda is uninhabited. self-proclaimed "canadians" are just americans who dont want the rest of the world to associate them with their fellow countrymen, whom they look down on 16:57:33 http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2015081302gm-0089-0000-a0731060&tw=1&ts=2 16:58:51 -!- aloril has joined. 16:58:53 actually its not a bad idea 16:59:06 coppro: was your sambai outrageous? 16:59:15 boily: good news! i'm canadian too! 17:00:14 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:00:31 <\oren\> Hmm... Japan's time zone is in sync in Oosaka 17:02:02 quintopia: I'm not exactly sure it quite works like that. did you pledge your allegiance to HM the Queen? 17:02:08 <\oren\> which makes Tokyo actually have sunrise ahead of schedule 17:08:37 <\oren\> Oh, I get it. Japan time is Kyoto time! 17:09:05 <\oren\> maybe in Canada we should standardize on Ottawa time. 17:09:07 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 17:09:56 <\oren\> that way, the people in Vancouver will have the sun rise at noon! 17:10:40 boily: sure. totes. 17:11:28 credible. she's Queen of enough places in the world so I can't see why not. 17:11:48 just like any true canadian, i can pretend there are still monarchies in the 21st century 17:12:40 I think \oren\ is canadianer than me... 17:12:50 <\oren\> Our money says Elizabeth II D. G. Regina. 17:13:24 oh it does? 17:13:44 * quintopia takes a sharpie to his monopoly set 17:13:52 <\oren\> = "Elizabeth the Second, by the grace of God, Queen" 17:16:47 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 17:25:56 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:29:05 -!- rg_ has joined. 17:36:25 boily: yes 17:36:56 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 17:55:00 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:33:15 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:45:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DETONATING CHICKEN). 18:45:15 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 19:13:01 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:19:44 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:31:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:32:32 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 19:39:28 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:40 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 19:44:06 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:49:44 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 19:53:45 -!- Wright has joined. 19:56:27 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:02:32 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 20:10:08 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:22:01 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:31:39 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 20:36:04 -!- boily has joined. 20:56:32 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 20:57:40 Hellu peoples 20:58:06 21:05:06 Well 21:05:07 No one's on 21:07:48 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:09:25 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:10:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:10:47 -!- t3cora has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:24:06 -!- t3cora has joined. 21:32:31 -!- t3cora has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:34:02 -!- _256Q has joined. 21:46:27 @tell hppavilion[1] AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 21:46:27 Consider it noted. 21:46:43 @tell hppavilion[1] I'm here. 21:46:43 Consider it noted. 21:47:07 pfcuttello 21:47:56 now that's a name I'm not used to see here. 21:48:06 hellœrjan. 21:48:07 * oerjan suddenly realizes boily has no adequate reply to it 21:48:35 boily: i see it frequently in /r/friends hth 21:50:12 i note that montreal bagel opinions are fierce 21:53:22 Trivia: I have ONLY ONCE had a bagel 21:53:30 wat 21:54:13 i suppose i haven't had that many. there once was a place called "bagel & juice" in the city center, though 21:54:34 I'm not particularly keen on them, and my family never bought them as long as I can remember 22:04:00 /r/friends??? 22:04:14 I wonder how low my comment went... 22:05:05 oh, -4. not so bad. 22:11:53 Taneb: but was it toasted 22:12:00 Taneb: http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/05/what-makes-a-good-bagel-bad-bagel-kenji-opinion-untoasted.html hth 22:12:02 I can't remember 22:12:07 I think it had egg and bacon on it 22:14:41 Thinking about it I think it was toasted 22:15:28 Maybe 22:22:50 This was a couple of years ago now 22:28:34 I was wearing an Iron Man costume 22:28:47 Somewhere in the hills to the west of Hexham 22:33:24 was it a fetish society? 22:34:01 No, that was a few months later 22:34:03 bagel fetish? 22:34:23 `quote fetish society 22:34:24 1123) kmc, I was trying to go to a sci-fi and fantasy society social, and I went to the wrong bar Wound up at my university's fetish society Didn't realise for an hour and a half 22:36:32 ashl: I haven't asked you the The Question yet: what are you approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? 22:38:29 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:39:19 approximately 52° 9′ N, 4° 29′ E and i don't know 22:41:30 ashl, you can borrow my body weight if you want 22:41:37 ok thanks 22:41:46 Although I wouldn't recommend having simultaneously my body weight and height 22:41:59 what height would you recommend 22:42:05 5'10"? 22:42:09 5'10" is good 22:42:22 I'm 5'11.5" which makes me a little underweight 22:42:30 ok, boily: i'll go with 5'10 and Taneb's weight 22:42:37 oh, you didn't ask for heigh. 22:42:39 t 22:42:43 no, heigh. 22:42:55 it's customary to drop the last t, when refering to the The Question. 22:42:56 Taneb's weight / 5'10 * Taneb's height 22:43:15 Taneb: you're taller than me. that is unforgivable! 22:43:26 was it correct? 22:43:32 boily, I didn't mean to! 22:43:38 ashl, you're in the Netherlands? 22:44:12 yarp 22:44:27 if I'm not mistaken, he/she is our first Dutchänneller! 22:44:35 what would we do without google maps 22:44:46 ashl, my dad's family originally comes from near Utrecht 22:46:15 * boily clears his throat. "uuuuh... hallo? hoe gaat het met jou? mijn luchtkussenboot zit vol paling!" 22:47:48 how unfortunate :P 22:48:04 my dutch is better than i thought, despite being nonexistent 22:48:20 got the last sentence without help 22:48:33 ashl, although his parents moved to Australia and my dad himself to the UK which is where I live 22:50:00 Taneb: wait, he moved from utrecht to australia then to the UK? 22:50:22 ashl, no, my dad's parents moved when they were children to Australia 22:50:28 ah 22:50:45 Then my dad moved to the UK to work for a few years, then met my mum and got married and moved here permanently 22:51:10 boily: i hope you are making notes on Taneb's family tree for your document 22:51:41 furiously. 22:52:09 ashl, my dad's mum's family name is completely traced! If you ever meet anyone with the unlikely name of Wolswinkel, they will be related to me 22:52:19 Moreover, one of my great uncles will know how 22:52:59 i will bear that in mind! 22:54:00 Or any variants of the name, like Wolfswinkel and van Wolfswinkel and van Wolswinkel 22:54:13 Taneb is doomed to being met. 22:54:54 boily, I've never met anyone in this channel whom I hadn't already met when they joined 22:55:27 To my knowledge 22:55:39 i don't believe we've met :P 22:57:12 I shouldn't expect so 22:57:17 There are a lot of people in the world 22:57:56 oh, did you mean meet in person 22:58:13 Yes 22:58:34 Anyway I will go to bed now 22:58:58 bonne tanuitb! 23:00:53 :) 23:01:19 boily: what are your coordinates and weigh then 23:04:08 coördinates: FN35EM; weigh: about 160 lbs. 23:04:26 (I gained weight since... I should drop the weekly poutine.) 23:07:08 so canadia? 23:08:43 yup. and the weird part of it. 23:09:21 you mean the french part? 23:11:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:11:20 <\oren\> how can my friend's brand new 8gb ram, 64-bit laptop have worse performance than my 2006 laptop?!?!?!? 23:11:45 <\oren\> windws 8 is utter fail 23:13:46 ashl: also true. 23:14:22 québéc? 23:15:15 Montréal, Québec. 23:17:05 *môntréàl 23:17:49 * boily lightly mapoles ashl 23:18:17 do you happen to speak French? your accents are strangely purposeful. 23:21:33 un pettee puh 23:22:21 Pârlëz-võús fràn darn i don't know how to make a cedille 23:22:46 do you speak any french? or just québécois :) 23:23:04 -!- aloril has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:23:07 * oerjan puts on goggles for better mapole view 23:23:40 i don't know what that means 23:23:45 `? mapole 23:23:46 A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. 23:23:57 ashl: it's a maple pole. a mapole. 23:24:14 example: 23:24:15 i cannot fathom why ais523 doesn't think the wisdom/ isn't useful 23:24:19 *is 23:24:23 * boily mapoles oerjan with elegance 23:24:52 un bon mapole blanc 23:25:11 the infamous nasal-vowels-sentence. 23:26:15 -!- aloril has joined. 23:26:33 what's mapole in québécois anyway 23:27:46 bonne question. 23:28:01 perchérable? 23:29:11 wat 23:29:25 perche, érable. 23:30:09 ooh 23:31:22 pålønn 23:33:00 that _could_ be a norwegian word, but i can find no use that isn't a typo. 23:33:13 a rather unlikely one, mind 23:35:58 everything is a Norwegian word in disguise. 23:52:44 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 23:59:45 helloppavilion[1]! 2015-08-16: 00:02:34 So I'm wondering... 00:04:14 Which convex 38-hedron, with only triangular and quadrilateral faces, has the smallest number of symmetry orbits for its faces, besides the 19-gonal bipyramid? 00:15:05 Y'see, I'm thinking of ways to make a d38. 00:15:38 This is definitely the leading contender for the shape: http://www-wales.ch.cam.ac.uk/~wales/CCD/Thomson/gif/38.gif 00:16:58 But that consists entirely of hexagons and pentagons. I'd like a shape that has faces with fewer edges, while still having few face symmetry orbits. 00:18:03 -!- singingboyo has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:19:15 tswellott. you'd like to build a d38 with only one kind of face? 00:19:22 -!- singingboyo has joined. 00:25:25 The only way to do that is by making a top-shaped die. I want a ball-shaped one instead, so I'll have to settle for having multiple kinds of faces. 00:32:31 Let's see. I want to come up with a 38-hedron which is as symmetrical as possible and has as few vertices as possible. 00:32:59 I find the dual problem easier to visualize: coming up with a polyhedron with 38 vertices, which is as symmetrical as possible and has as few faces as possible. 00:34:17 I should probably start by figuring out what kind of symmetry I want. 00:42:38 And you aren't OK with a barrel die? 00:42:46 Nope. 00:42:50 It must be ball-shaped. 00:42:54 Is this just a thought experiment or does it have a practical application 00:42:56 ? 00:42:58 <\oren\> Why use dice at all? use a RNG 00:43:17 Agreed 00:43:24 Why are there slashes in your name now? 00:43:43 <\oren\> because someone else already registered the nick oren 00:43:49 Oh 00:43:51 Wait 00:43:52 What? 00:43:56 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to oren. 00:44:08 You could always use a pyramid-shaped die with a rounded bottom :P 00:44:13 Well they aren't logged in right now whoever they are 00:44:19 That's rougly circular in my mind xD 00:44:45 Quick, oren! Build a machine with the soul purpose of cracking IRC NickServ passwords! 00:45:39 Or is it sole? 00:45:41 I forget 00:45:54 The practical application is that it will be impressive. 00:46:26 True 00:46:31 And to you need to geometrically prove that it is the optimal die? 00:47:03 I'd like to see a D&D Cassino... 00:47:15 take a sphere, and cut 38 faces evenly distributed along a great circle. It will roll until it lands on one 00:47:26 I have never actually played D&D xD 00:47:47 I ahve played D&D exactly twice 00:47:53 Hoolootwo: That's pretty ballular 00:48:13 Hoolootwo: And if you make the sides triangles, that gives you a total of... 00:48:23 * hppavilion[1] mumbles to himself and messes with his hands for a moment 00:48:39 114 vertices 00:49:09 It doesn't need to be optimal, but I want it to be pretty good. 00:49:18 Assuming a sphere has 1 as opposed to infinitely many as a layman might think 00:49:23 Fuckin' laymen... 00:49:31 The number of vertices of a sphere? 00:49:33 Taking our jobs 00:49:36 Stealing our women 00:49:42 it really depends on what you classify as optimal 00:49:53 Hmm... yes, I think I'd say a sphere has one vertex, no edges, and one face. 00:50:21 Well, I guess you could either demand that there be a vertex or not. 00:50:24 for the purposes of dice, it has none of those features 00:50:25 What's a smart, creative, programmer with an enthusiasm for strangeness gotta do to keep his standard a' livin' now-a-days 00:50:34 ? 00:50:41 Can't forget the question mark :p 00:50:46 s/p/P/ 00:50:58 Wait, lemme think about that sphere thing. 00:51:20 What's that formula. Edges = vertices + faces + 2? 00:51:23 A sphere has not vertices, as far as I can tell 00:51:35 I think it's something like that 00:51:36 No, how about edges = vertices + faces - 2? 00:51:47 Though I think that only applies to polyhedra 00:51:58 yeah spheres really don't count 00:52:03 * hppavilion[1] picks up his magic, perfect sphere from beside his bed and investigates it 00:52:03 Yep 00:52:06 No verticees 00:52:10 s/ee/e/ 00:52:23 Now, I think a sphere definitely has no edges and one face. So the formula would be 0 = vertices + 1 - 2. 00:52:41 One vertex, if you want a sphere to be like a polyhedron. 00:52:44 well it depends on what you call a face 00:53:00 I would classify round things as not faces 00:53:08 Agreed 00:53:10 because dice aren't supposed to land on round things 00:53:14 #geometrybitches 00:53:41 Anyway, what was I doing. 00:54:15 Apparently this shape has 38 vertices: http://www-wales.ch.cam.ac.uk/~wales/CCD/Thomson/gif/21.gif 00:54:20 I believe you were attempting to square the circle 00:54:26 Well... it's likely to have 38 vertices. 00:54:31 And later, you were planning on doubling the cube 00:54:33 And 21 faces. 00:54:53 Of course, doubling the cube has a much lower impossibility level than squaring the circle. 00:54:59 Treu 00:55:00 *True 00:55:44 And you were planning to finish trisecting the angle in the morning 00:55:45 But I can't see the entire shape at the link there. 00:56:20 you can see enough of it though 00:56:32 Looking at the shape and extrapolating, it seems like it has eight hexagons and twelve pentagons. 00:56:44 Then, of course, dealing with cubes again, you were going to octuple one 00:56:44 But that's only 20 faces. It definitely has 21 faces, so there must be an extra face somewhere. 00:57:21 Of course, even you doubted the possiblity of that 00:58:02 Maybe one of the edges is replaced with a quadrilateral. (Rectangle, even.) 00:58:05 is the information available to construct that gif? 00:58:39 Yeah. Got something that'll render an XYZ file? 00:59:12 The shape-it-seems-to-be has 20 faces and 36 vertices. Replacing an edge with a quadrilateral will turn that into 21 faces and 38 vertices. 00:59:18 one of my screensavers will iirc 00:59:25 tswett: http://threejs.org/editor/ 00:59:49 boily: will that take XYZ files? 00:59:54 no 00:59:54 I think so. 01:00:02 at least not this xyz 01:00:03 it doesn't? bleh :/ 01:00:12 Nope. 01:01:10 The only video-like files I ever use are .QΠØs 01:01:41 Let's see. Maybe I can have a dual polyhedron consisting entirely of pentagons, hexagons, and vertices with exactly 3 edges. 01:02:33 hppavilion[1]: what kind of unholy file extension is that? 01:02:48 I've seen unholier 01:02:51 oren: Last seen : Sep 01 08:19:40 2014 (49w 5d 16h ago) 01:02:54 38 vertices means 57 edges, so... 57 = 38 + faces - 2, so faces = 57 - 38 + 2, or... 21? 01:03:00 9 hexagons, 12 pentagons? 01:03:02 you can take over that nick if you want 01:03:12 Hmm. That could be workable. 01:03:21 that's _way_ over the expiry limit 01:03:42 The Catholic Church's standard file extensions consist of a CJK character, an Emoji, and a 8x8 px 4-frame GIF file 01:04:45 The time duration of the GIF matters to the file extension 01:04:49 Still think mine is that unholy? 01:04:57 boily? 01:05:21 hmm I'm not even sure that file contains the edges 01:05:59 I think it doesn't. 01:06:07 You'd have to add those manually. 01:06:11 Or add those automatically, if you can. 01:06:39 So one of the things I'm working on is a program to do geometry for people 01:06:41 Holy fungot in the Heavenly Bit Bucket, please have mercy on hppavilion[1]'s soul, amen(1). 01:06:41 boily: fnord fnord fnord. fnord 01:07:18 Anyone want to add an easter egg where if you enter some code, it starts doing Sacred Geometry to troll the New Agers? 01:07:57 I might be able to make this thing work, here. If I want 3-fold rotational symmetry, I can do that by putting vertices at the poles. Then I'll have 3 lunes, each containing 3 hexagons and 4 pentagons. 01:08:56 I could also have symmetry across the equator, meaning I have 6 half-lunes, each containing 1.5 hexagons and 2 pentagons. 01:09:40 hppavilion[1]: please note that fungot is sentient enough by itself to evolve that feature. fnord. 01:09:40 boily: true geeks will also celebrate 2048, of course 01:10:25 boily: True 01:12:12 Just thinking about implementing that program gives me a headache 01:12:38 what about a snub cube? 01:13:46 seems like that would be better than whatever that thing was 01:13:53 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:14:33 Hoolootwo: ...dude, that's wonderful. 01:14:36 I love it. 01:15:12 It's frickin' perfect. 01:17:55 Wonderful, wonderful. 01:21:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:21:50 Congrats 01:21:52 why would snubbing cubes be useful? aren't we meant to like polyhedra, instead of rejecting them? 01:22:03 fellowl! 01:26:05 I am very enthusiastic about this snub cube. 01:28:28 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:12:37 -!- rg_ has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:16:32 -!- rg_ has joined. 02:17:18 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:17:28 -!- rg_ has left. 02:22:47 -!- mauris has joined. 02:32:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elongated_pentagonal_gyrocupolarotunda 02:34:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:43:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PUNCTURE CHICKEN). 02:44:34 Is it correct to say that every fair die should be the dual to a uniform polyhedron? 02:46:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Natta). 02:47:03 I think because the above implies that the centres of each face are sort of equally spaced 03:04:00 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:12:48 I play and record Dungeons&Dragons game. But, the d10 dice is not the Platonic solid 03:13:50 -!- singingboyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:19:12 I have added the solo channel mode into playmod but will then add other stuff too such as support for .XI files 03:26:08 the d10 is the dual to the 10-antiprism 03:42:02 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 03:42:31 -!- mauris has joined. 03:53:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 04:10:03 -!- heroux has joined. 04:17:16 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:21:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:21:37 -!- heroux has joined. 04:24:18 -!- bb010g has joined. 04:38:57 -!- tromp has joined. 05:21:47 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:26:16 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 05:42:54 -!- singingboyo has joined. 05:47:22 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:13:37 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 06:22:45 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:49:29 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 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lleu has joined. 12:59:51 -!- shikhin has changed nick to control_W. 13:00:50 -!- control_W has changed nick to shikhin. 13:20:21 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:25:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:27:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:44:46 -!- tromp has joined. 13:49:34 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:23:39 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:26:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FIFTEENTH CHICKEN). 14:32:16 -!- GoToTell has joined. 14:41:54 -!- tromp has joined. 14:45:46 -!- Wright has joined. 14:52:04 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 14:57:53 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client). 15:00:37 mroing 15:04:20 -!- aretecode has joined. 15:08:50 ehlo 15:14:02 syn 15:14:10 200 OK 15:16:18 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:17:03 i can't believe how much memory it takes to link the chromium binary 15:28:41 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43738&oldid=43398 * Rdebath * (+13883) Add whitespace 15:32:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Alter). 15:38:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:40:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:08:18 -!- GeekDude has joined. 16:13:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:17:43 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 16:19:49 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:22:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:23:32 -!- mauris has joined. 16:47:14 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 16:51:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:54:12 -!- mauris_ has joined. 16:57:15 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:07:26 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 17:08:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:10:55 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:13:14 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:15:28 -!- impomatic_ has left. 17:29:07 oren_: I think fair dice only have to be dual to a vertex-transitive polyhedron, i.e. fair dice have to be face-transitive. 17:32:08 i think henry segerman has a series of videos where he shows every possible face-transitive die 17:46:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:58:40 tswett: Hmmm... yah that makes sense 18:08:20 -!- oren_ has changed nick to oren. 18:10:50 -!- aloril_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:16:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:18:01 -!- aloril has joined. 18:18:20 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:19:45 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 18:38:17 idea: a wargame where the game world is a poincare disk 18:40:03 er, i guess the game world is a hyperbolic plane. the VIEW on the game world is a poincare disk 18:40:06 -!- variable has joined. 18:40:18 hi variable 18:40:29 oren: hi 19:03:00 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 19:07:52 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:12:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:13:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:32:42 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: oops). 19:35:46 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 19:37:26 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:40:10 -!- shikhin has changed nick to BrieFly. 19:40:23 -!- BrieFly has changed nick to shikhiniht. 19:49:45 oren: so its hyperrogue but an RTS instead? 19:52:50 yeah 20:01:28 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:07:35 [wiki] [[User:Sacchan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43739&oldid=39904 * Sacchan * (-89) 20:17:54 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:18:13 -!- Froox has joined. 20:19:29 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:20:17 -!- mihow has joined. 20:21:17 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:23:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:24:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:28:56 idea: a wargame where the game world is a poincare disk <-- hm, exponentially growing empires... 20:31:03 how do you actually store hyperbolic space on a computer 20:31:26 lazy graph? 20:31:30 there's no native equivalent of cartesian coordinates, after all 20:31:42 there are tilings... 20:32:51 hm are there fractal - no, _reverse_ fractal ones? 20:32:54 yeah i guess. but then you're taking a massive overhead 20:33:05 use 3d points on a hyperboloid? 20:33:23 oh right, there's embeddings into R^3 20:34:22 there are embeddings into r^2 surely 20:34:27 no isometries though 20:34:35 well true, e.g. the poincare disk mentioned 20:34:40 Windows on SSD and Linux on HDD or other way round 20:35:04 the hyperboloid method works pretty well i guess in that you have an easy metric to compute 20:35:19 Taneb: depends, what are you using them for? 20:35:27 or why not both on one? 20:36:42 coppro, Windows mostly for gaming and when I need to run Windows only software, Linux for browsing internet and programming 20:36:47 both OS on ssd, put your mutable data on the HDD 20:38:05 That's effort 20:38:07 the good thing about the hyperboloid model is you can use the lorentz transforms 20:38:53 Taneb: also probably your best bet 20:39:05 is your machine UEFI? 20:39:10 I don't think so 20:39:10 you can avoid a lot of futzing with bootloaders if so 20:39:14 Second hand machine 20:39:16 ahh 20:39:32 https://gist.github.com/alanbriolat/e2e3e5f4969840d18bae is some info if it helps 20:41:36 What counts a mutable data 20:41:51 The spec tab of the motherboard link on that page does say "ASUS UEFI BIOS EZ Mode featuring friendly graphics user interface". 20:41:57 OK 20:42:02 So I guess I have UEFI 20:42:37 You'll probably need to fiddle around in the "BIOS" setup page to turn it on. 20:43:27 A command such as echo $'#EXTENDED\n#DIVISIONS 32\n@0="COSMO.xi"\nA @0c1\n' | amigamml | playmod f=44100 c=1 b=16 v=190 | aplay -r 44100 -c 1 -t raw -f S16_LE can be used to play back a .XI file, although I try to make playmod to directly play back .XI file too if possible 20:44:25 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:44:26 Although currently it does not work. 20:44:51 (I mean playmod currently does not play back .XI file; the long piped command does work, but it requires AmigaMML, clearly) 20:45:14 And when I was last installing a Windows, it was kind of picky about what sort of installation media you could do an UEFI install from. 20:45:53 ALEA IACTA EST 20:46:11 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:47:08 I suppose if you can boot whatever you're trying to install it from with the boot settings set to "UEFI only", it's likely to work. 20:53:47 -!- mauris_ has joined. 21:05:05 -!- trout has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 21:08:22 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:08:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:24:23 -!- mauris__ has joined. 21:26:25 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 21:26:32 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 21:26:32 -!- mauris has joined. 21:27:49 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:45:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:46:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:13:55 * Sgeo wonders if the Prismata campaign has improved/become more tutorially lately 22:14:02 * Sgeo goes to look 22:17:23 You already know how to play, don't know? 22:17:26 you 22:18:27 I know the mechanics, or did. Not really how to play well 22:20:13 We should jam when I get back home. 22:20:36 I haven't played in a long time, I'm sure you only improved. I think we can already declare you the winner 22:20:41 But ok 22:21:10 I only play against the computer. 22:38:23 Sgeo: ready to jam? 22:38:44 Not if it takes more than 20 minutes, I usually head out to eat 7 eastern 22:38:57 We can set it to a quick clock. 22:39:35 Ok 22:39:58 Which will make me lose even harder, but we can play again after I eat 22:41:17 OK, I'll admit that opening move was suboptimal. 22:42:25 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:43:53 -!- lleu has joined. 22:44:28 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:46:42 -!- lleu has joined. 22:50:42 gg 22:50:45 I was horrible 22:57:11 Do you like this example of how amigamml and playmod programs are working? I don't know of any similar programs for dealing with tracker music formats! 22:57:20 Sgeo: Usually people start out by building something that generates gold. 22:57:32 I suppose you consider yourself exempt. 22:58:11 shachaf, engineers help build drones to generate gold, or did you mean something else? 22:58:30 Well, your first turn you just clicked all your drones and did nothing. 22:58:42 Usually you would QDD or something. 22:59:11 shachaf, I consider myself as having barely remembered a thing 22:59:12 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tripl3dogdare * New user account 22:59:35 OK. 22:59:37 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43740 * Tripl3dogdare * (+4172) Created page with "'''MagiStack''' is a [[stack]]-based [[esoteric programming language]] created by Connor Scialdone. It is based loosely on Unefunge (a one-dimensional offshoot of [[Befunge]])..." 22:59:54 I was really just talking about your name, though. 23:03:11 I don't get it 23:05:20 I might be confused. 23:08:09 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43741&oldid=43740 * Tripl3dogdare * (+39) 23:16:49 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:27:25 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43742&oldid=43741 * Tripl3dogdare * (+110) 23:28:49 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43743&oldid=43736 * Tripl3dogdare * (+16) /* M */ 23:41:22 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:42:47 https://github.com/lukego/blog cool idea 23:49:34 [wiki] [[Lhooq]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43744&oldid=36245 * Tripl3dogdare * (+28) 23:49:47 [wiki] [[Lhooq]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43745&oldid=43744 * Tripl3dogdare * (+2) 23:49:58 [wiki] [[Lhooq]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43746&oldid=43745 * Tripl3dogdare * (-30) 23:55:45 `quote prose 23:55:56 1137) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 23:56:43 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43747&oldid=43742 * Tripl3dogdare * (-7) 2015-08-17: 00:04:06 how do you pronounce ꙮs? 00:04:26 ꙮ is "multiocular o" 00:04:38 ty 00:28:23 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to DrSinner. 00:28:37 -!- DrSinner has changed nick to GeekDude. 00:35:03 [wiki] [[Hyperfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43748&oldid=39856 * 69.165.212.148 * (+787) 00:36:59 I don't have ꙮ in my font but it is probably a nasal ingressive voiceless velar trill 00:37:46 no, wikipedia says its the honeycomb one 00:42:39 and it is pronounced [o] 00:51:19 -!- boily has joined. 00:56:17 [wiki] [[Hyperfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43749&oldid=43748 * 69.165.212.148 * (+238) 00:58:02 -!- singingboyo has joined. 00:58:55 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:01:49 * boily pokes coppro in the haneman 01:06:24 [wiki] [[Hyperfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43750&oldid=43749 * 69.165.212.148 * (+338) 01:10:57 [wiki] [[Hyperfunge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43751&oldid=43750 * 69.165.212.148 * (-7) 01:11:40 -!- madbr has joined. 01:11:57 oh man, I've created a monster 01:12:01 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hyperfunge 01:12:11 hyperbolic geometry version of befunge 01:12:18 it's aboslutely hideous :D 01:13:21 a hyperbolic geometry befunge sounds excellently eso :-) 01:14:24 I'm not sure I understand the directions in which you can execute code, though 01:14:41 a picture would be helpful (that projects onto a euclidean space via the use of scaling) 01:16:44 madbr: hey! long time no see! 01:17:06 btw, you have no right creating hyperbolic esolangs on Sundays late at night. 01:19:04 true, it would need a picture 01:19:07 hey :3 01:19:31 and yeah well... these things happen :o 01:20:04 boily: ow that was rude 01:21:16 I kinda wanted to incorporate the expansion properties of hyperbolic space into the language more but just gave up :D 01:23:11 we definitely need some kind of picture/example/synæsthetic experience for that. 01:23:44 ok but not on sunday late at night :D 01:24:02 point. 01:24:52 coppro: sorry. I only got tenpai on a closed chinitsu today. I couldn't achieve outrageousness. 01:27:27 one idea I've had would've been to have a program with an infinitely tiled portion 01:28:15 to store data independently from the stack you'd use the index of the tile respective to the non-tiled portion 01:30:11 i feel like a square tiling would be better than a pentagonal one? 01:31:16 you could translate befunge semantics a lot more naturally then 01:33:11 madbr, is this the grid: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Uniform_tiling_552-t1.png 01:34:21 boily: it's ok. I haven't been doing well since that game 01:35:49 mauris: yes! 01:37:19 i don't see where to draw the middle line 01:37:45 I'm not sure it's the best grid for a hyperbolic fungeroid but I like the pentagonal thing going on 01:38:13 mauris : the line at the left of the center pentagon looks like it'd work 01:39:16 the problem with using pentagons is that you have no notion of opposite sides so you can't define a line on the tiling 01:40:07 I guess it's more an edge 01:40:48 it also has the catch that there are really two versions of each of the 5 directions you can move in 01:40:54 if you're following an edge then that's the same as using the square tiling 01:41:59 i feel like "sprialing out from the center" would be a more natural way to store the instructions? 01:42:01 like, moving leftwards, you can either move leftwards in a way that undoes a right-up move, or in a way that undoes a right-down move... 01:42:23 leading to the same pentagon except the IP is not in the same orientation 01:42:45 mauris : yeah that's the other option 01:42:58 mauris : or a sierpinsky type grid 01:44:57 *sierpiński 01:45:15 you can either start with a middle point (going to 5 edges and 5 corners), or a central equator with edges on both sides (the solution here), or a line of pentagons each with 1 edge leading downwards and 2 edges 1 corner upwards 01:47:21 or a middle corner touching 4 pentagons 01:47:28 you should draw some crude pictures about how the PC moves, mapping 1abcXYZdefghUVW etc. 01:47:50 sure but tonight I can't be bothered :3 01:48:00 maybe i have weak hyperbolic geometry skillz but this is basically impossible to read and imagine :( 01:48:20 no hyperbolic geometry is impossible for everybody :o 01:48:21 :D 01:48:27 which is the point actually 01:49:25 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Hi%5Cn help, i'm clicking through random pages and finding horrible languages 01:50:39 hellørjań. 01:51:00 also, goodrjanight! 01:51:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CASSETTE CHICKEN). 01:51:47 how did you even find that 01:52:54 izabera: "random page", probably 01:53:07 I invented the BF Derivative Random Page Game 01:53:14 but stopped playing it because it was too depressing 01:53:35 (the rules: keep pressing Random Page until you find a language you designed, your score is minus the number of BF derivatives you find on the way) 01:54:21 hmm, Hi\n isn't as bad as some I've seen 01:54:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:54:33 HQ9+ does similar space better, though, I think 01:54:59 that language appears to have been invented independently, though, and does one of HQ9+'s jokes better while missing the others 01:56:44 oh dear, I've been clicking on random pages 01:56:58 and this BF derivative is probably the second-worst I've seen: http://esolangs.org/wiki/And_then 01:57:10 (the worst involved doing something that prevented loops working) 01:58:02 this is certainly something 01:58:41 really there's absolutely no reason for it to be based on brainfuck 02:06:08 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:12:54 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43752&oldid=43747 * Tripl3dogdare * (+0) 02:17:02 i found an actually good language and wrote an interpreter! 02:17:54 which one? 02:19:52 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Minimum -> http://lpaste.net/138992 02:19:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:20:28 mauris: haha :-) 02:20:31 I like that use of absurd 02:21:08 yes, especially absurd :: Void -> IO ()! 02:21:14 ex falsum interpreter 02:21:50 and of course the parser failing for all finite strings. i'm proud 02:23:47 I still have to figure out how to garbage collect one particularly crazy language I've come up with 02:24:18 madbr: does the behaviour of the garbage collector change the language semantics? 02:25:12 hmm, only if it changes which programs leak and which ones dont 02:25:17 which... I think it does 02:25:42 madbr: oh, my suggestion was going to be "just leak and use boehm-gc" if it doesn't change the semantics 02:25:59 there are definitely languages, like Perl, where the GC behaviour is observable from inside the language itself though 02:26:37 -!- singingboyo has joined. 02:27:23 the problem is that since the already computed data is immutable, computation must generate ever more data 02:27:49 and it's hard to define when previously computed data becomes irrelevant and can be dumped 02:27:53 oh, I see 02:28:19 i don't like that eval. 02:29:21 though I guess that due to the semantics of the language it can regenerate data that it dumped 02:29:31 if it turns out it really needed it 02:29:38 oerjan: how would you have written it? 02:30:17 ais523: referring to http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.golf/2002/07/msg1289.html? 02:31:03 Jafet: was actually refering to Scalar::Util::weaken; the description of Scalar::Util is as a place to put things that are effectively part of the base language, but aren't used enough to be in the language core 02:31:47 but that thing is genius :-) 02:31:53 pity it doesn't work on graphs with loops in 02:33:41 [wiki] [[Minimum]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43753&oldid=13038 * Nooodl * (+657) 02:34:59 [wiki] [[Minimum]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43754&oldid=43753 * Nooodl * (+18) add a header for this i guess 02:40:48 I guess it could just randomly dump data when reaching the data limit 02:41:12 which means that with a real randomness source it would have to reach the solution...EVENTUALLY :3 02:43:48 On the other hand, it is also simultaneously possible that it never reaches the solution 02:44:19 true 02:44:49 also I think the execution time would grow exponentially with each extra byte over the gc limit :o 02:45:13 I...think 02:45:13 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:45:24 -!- Wright has joined. 02:49:37 mauris: http://lpaste.net/138992#a138993 03:24:33 -!- Froo has joined. 03:27:15 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:30:14 -!- Froo has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 03:37:56 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:38:27 is there a nickname for a group of three binary bits? I thought it was 'trit' but that's apparently a single ternary digit 03:38:58 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 03:39:02 Ooh, wikipedia says it's a triad or triade 03:44:49 trit doesn't make sense. a bit would need to be two digits then 03:46:36 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:47:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:47:02 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:48:01 "3bits" 03:48:14 "3/8ths of a byte" 03:48:58 it's not a very popular bit grouping due to not fitting very well in bytes 03:49:11 octal! 03:49:52 octal is not very popular, either 03:50:30 right exactly 03:53:34 you could call it an "octal-digit" 04:03:06 octit? 04:04:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nit). 04:15:49 -!- bb010g has joined. 04:16:50 octet, therefore tertet. 04:17:54 quatet would be 4 bits or one hex digit 04:18:41 pentet is one base 32 digit. sextet is one base64 digit 04:18:59 s/quatet/quartet/ 04:19:33 I have used "nybble" before to mean one hex digit or four bits, this is also sometimes used elsewhere. 04:20:35 I use "octet" generally when defining a VM or something else that has memory cells larger than eight bits and are addressable by the longer cells instead of by octets. 04:20:49 So, that mean "octet" always means 8-bits regardless of the size of memory cells 04:23:30 yeah. and then we can also use hexdecet for unambigously a 16 bit word 04:24:08 bitrigintet is 32 bits 04:25:23 quattrisexagintet is a 64 bit unit 04:27:06 centioctovigintet is 128 bits 04:32:31 nerds 04:53:35 myname: you feel the need to say that in /this/ channel? :-D 04:56:15 <|f`-`|f> Fucking thon thon 04:56:21 <|f`-`|f> Is this god damn starwars 04:56:50 what's thon thon? 04:57:33 <|f`-`|f> Thontet did thon's dishes 04:57:46 <|f`-`|f> :^) 04:58:07 ais523: it's best suited here, isn't it? 04:58:30 ;-) 05:00:37 <|f`-`|f> http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1439678080638.webm 05:00:54 <|f`-`|f> Turn yourselves in peacefully terrorists 05:01:29 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:02:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 05:10:50 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:10:58 The description of e-TeX says they added classes of marks since it seem like a good idea; however I have been able to do classes of marks without e-TeX, using only standard TeX operations. 05:44:46 -!- Froox has joined. 05:48:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:49:45 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:51:17 is that chris morris 05:59:08 I don't know? 06:00:47 -!- x10A94 has joined. 06:02:40 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=275318 this is mildly interesting but not enough to pay 15$, can someone provide it for free? >.> 06:03:08 What is that one about? 06:03:28 parsing english with yacc 06:03:43 that's all i know 06:03:53 I do not have a copy to provide for free anyways (as far as I know) 06:04:17 is that English the natural language or English the computer language? 06:04:28 i believe the natural language 06:04:57 yeah natural language according to the references 06:06:16 izabera: it's probably a bad idea to ask people to pirate academic papers for you, after what happened to aaron schwartz 06:06:37 I'd recommend checking the author's/authors' website, though 06:06:44 <.< 06:06:47 it's possible that someone is a part of the ACM 06:07:07 often it has a preprint (basically, the same paper before proofreading/peer review), which the author's allowed to post publicly 06:07:11 and has the ability to download copies and share maybe one copy, I haven't read any fine text but I could see that 06:07:45 I can't remember how draconian the ACM is 06:08:03 one of the major places has a guest access thing where you can look at (but not download) something like four papers per month 06:08:08 even as a non-member 06:09:47 go to 'Request Permissions' maybe, it appears as if that's for non-members 06:14:16 Actually, what happened to Schwartz was controversial because people are used to pirating academic papers. 06:14:45 This particular paper should be worth the $15 though. That's only $5 per page! 06:15:09 that's 5$ per page more than what i'm going to spend <.< 06:16:51 the thing that gets me about academic paper charging is that the charge for individual papers is always utterly overblown 06:16:59 “© 1998 ACM l-58113-030-9/98/0004 $3.50” 06:17:04 if they price were reduced, there's a chance that people might actually spend it sometimes 06:17:21 also the ACM's papers always have a price on the copyright line IIRC, and I have no idea what it refers to 06:23:23 [wiki] [[???]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43755 * 50.170.122.255 * (+192) Created page with "??? is an esoteric programming language created by Stack Exchange users Alex A. and BrainSteel. It uses the punctuation within a literary work to perform operations akin to th..." 06:24:12 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:24:43 We need a separate wiki to catalogue the rapidly developing field of brainfuck derivatives 06:28:02 How about a brainfuck derivative with the exact syntax and semantics of Python 06:28:40 how about the opposite 06:30:49 [wiki] [[???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43756&oldid=43755 * 50.170.122.255 * (+173) 06:33:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:33:07 [wiki] [[???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43757&oldid=43756 * 50.170.122.255 * (+10) 06:34:23 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43758&oldid=43752 * Rdebath * (+72) Probably NOT TC 06:34:52 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43759&oldid=43758 * Rdebath * (+33) 06:40:34 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43760&oldid=43759 * Rdebath * (+5) Humm, OTOH branching doesn't look good enough for a PDA; is it ? 06:51:28 [wiki] [[???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43761&oldid=43757 * Rdebath * (+112) Definitely not TC 06:52:41 [wiki] [[???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43762&oldid=43761 * 50.170.122.255 * (+1155) 06:56:06 [wiki] [[???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43763&oldid=43762 * 50.170.122.255 * (+35) 07:05:13 [wiki] [[Talk:???]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43764 * Martin Büttner * (+105) Created page with ""it is not Turing complete due to the loss of nested loops." I don't see why you can't have nested loops." 07:05:36 [wiki] [[Talk:???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43765&oldid=43764 * Martin Büttner * (+106) 07:06:42 fwiw I agree with the talk page post 07:07:48 [wiki] [[Talk:???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43766&oldid=43765 * Ais523 * (+310) agree 07:09:36 [wiki] [[Talk:???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43767&oldid=43766 * Martin Büttner * (+193) 07:10:21 [wiki] [[???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43768&oldid=43763 * Ais523 * (+114) is TC; clarify what ' does 07:17:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 07:21:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:35:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:59:50 [wiki] [[Talk:???]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43769&oldid=43767 * Rdebath * (+250) 08:02:32 -!- zadock has joined. 08:05:49 could someone here on Linux > 3.8 run "unshare -Ur true" as not-root and let me know if it produces an error? (this relates to weboflies 2) 08:06:40 or, really, anywhere, but I thought I'd ask here because this channel a) is often responsive to bizarre requests, and b) is vaguely aware of weboflies 08:07:12 unshare: unshare failed: Invalid argument 08:07:24 on 4.1 08:07:42 with unshare from util-linux 2.26.2 08:07:53 hmm 08:08:02 I'm confused, because that is a /different/ error from the one I'm getting 08:08:21 and yet it should succeed, given that that's the simplest possible valid use of the -r option 08:08:30 the reason I ask is that I suspect there might be a kernel bug 08:08:54 $ unshare -Ur true 08:08:55 unshare: write failed /proc/self/gid_map: Operation not permitted 08:08:57 that's what I get 08:09:15 izabera: oh, probably you have unshare compiled out in your kernel 08:09:30 err, unshare user namespaces 08:09:50 that'd explain the symptoms you're seeing, it isn't very useful for me to know if the bug's fixed though 08:11:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:12:27 i didn't compile my kernel 08:12:36 and i honestly don't know much about this 08:13:32 fair enough, I wasn't necessarily expecting people to understand what the command did (it is harmless, though) 08:13:51 sorry to disappoint 08:14:01 it can be surprising to see what it does without the "true" at the end (which makes it a no-op), if you aren't prepared for it, although it doesn't actually break security 08:16:18 -!- singingboyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:28:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:00:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL today). 09:28:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:37:23 [wiki] [[Mov]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43770&oldid=43287 * 194.19.70.9 * (+10) mov is not 'esoteric' in any meaning of the word 09:55:36 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:56:11 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 09:57:26 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:00:48 -!- SopaXT has joined. 10:06:58 -!- shikhiniht has changed nick to shikhin. 10:10:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:22:07 Well, I have made progress today 10:23:09 `? progress 10:23:23 progress? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:24:07 `learn Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. 10:24:12 Learned 'progres': Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. 10:27:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:28:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:28:12 -!- boily has joined. 10:45:12 Nice plural handling. 10:47:00 `? progresss 10:47:01 progresss? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:47:03 `? progress 10:47:04 Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. 10:47:05 `? progres 10:47:06 Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. 10:48:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:52:27 `` sed -i 's/the reals,/the reals, progress,/' wisdom/tanebvention 10:52:31 No output. 10:54:11 You know, I ought to be more careful about what I say just in case it becomes a tanebvention 10:55:46 the way I see it, everything already is a tanebvention. except those things which are explicitely not, therefore they are. 10:58:30 we're highlighting the most egregious ones, I think. like weetoflakes. 10:58:43 Which is the only one I actually invented 10:58:51 "invented" 10:59:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 11:06:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: lunch). 11:22:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SEDIMENTARY CHICKEN). 11:26:44 damn, I missed the plural thing 11:27:07 `rm wisdom/progres 11:27:09 No output. 11:27:23 `? progress 11:27:24 progress? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:27:29 `revert 11:27:33 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 11:27:37 `? progress 11:27:38 Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb. 11:49:36 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:57:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:30:34 hmm, now a different set of people is online 12:31:14 could someone here on Linux > 3.8 run "unshare -Ur true" as not-root and let me know if it produces an error? (this relates to weboflies 2) 12:31:30 one person already tried but I think the relevant kernel config option was disabled 12:33:15 ais523: unshare: unshare failed: Die Operation ist nicht erlaubt 12:33:34 hmm, I guess it isn't enabled on your kernel either :-( 12:33:41 Linux Ant 4.1.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.1.3-1 (2015-08-03) x86_64 GNU/Linux 12:34:59 the relevant feature is user namespaces 12:35:12 but they seem to be broken with respect to GIDs (UIDs work correctly) 12:35:20 either that or both me and unshare(1) are using them incorrectly 12:35:54 On my UserModeLinux-VM it fails too 12:36:28 `run unshare --version 12:36:29 unshare: unrecognized option '--version' \ \ Usage: \ unshare [options] [args...] \ \ Options: \ -h, --help usage information (this) \ -m, --mount unshare mounts namespace \ -u, --uts unshare UTS namespace (hostname etc) \ -i, --ipc unshare System V IPC namespace \ -n, --net unshare network nam 12:36:38 I can believe it would fail in UML 12:36:44 `run unshare -Ur true 12:36:45 unshare: invalid option -- 'U' \ \ Usage: \ unshare [options] [args...] \ \ Options: \ -h, --help usage information (this) \ -m, --mount unshare mounts namespace \ -u, --uts unshare UTS namespace (hostname etc) \ -i, --ipc unshare System V IPC namespace \ -n, --net unshare network namespace \ 12:36:53 oh wow, that's an old version of unshare 12:37:05 that doesn't support "--version", for some reason 12:37:09 `run uname -a 12:37:11 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 12:39:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:42:15 ais523, I get invalid option U 12:42:25 But mine doesn't have --version either 12:42:33 This is Ubuntu 14.04 12:42:46 right, I think that predates Linux 3.8? 12:42:54 or at least the matching util-linux release 12:43:09 it probably took a while for new Linux functionality to be implemented in util-linux 12:43:46 hmm, I hope that distros don't disable user namespaces by default 12:43:50 or nobody will be able to run weboflies 12:44:42 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:44:42 ais523, invalid argument on Arch with kernel 4.0.5-ARCH 12:44:54 What is web o' flies? 12:45:04 Taneb: formerly known as the Secret Project 12:45:13 That helpeth not 12:45:51 could you do "cat /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/.config | grep USER_NS" 12:46:21 and, umm, it's quite hard to explain what it does, but it involves intercepting system calls and replacing them with different ones 12:46:35 Sandboxing ♥ 12:46:44 Taneb: http://stealthcatproductions.blogspot.com/2008/11/web-o-flies.html HTHeth 12:47:19 ProofTechnique: I doubt it's been discussed much outside #esoteric 12:47:24 ais523, file does not exist 12:47:30 I only came here for help with it because it's a) ridiculous, b) hard to explain what you're doing 12:47:32 Taneb: ugh 12:47:41 This is a server I don't control 12:47:45 I take it /proc/config.gz doesn't exist either? 12:47:56 No, that does exist 12:48:01 oh, good 12:48:07 zgrep for USER_NS in that, then 12:48:22 (the two files should have the same content, just one is usermode and one is kernelmode) 12:48:33 # CONFIG_USER_NS is not set 12:48:36 ah right 12:48:40 that's the option that I'm trying to test 12:48:48 but apparently it's disabled in whatever distro that server's using 12:48:53 Arch, I believe 12:50:07 I think my laptop (with Ubuntu LTS) has it enabled 12:50:14 Just an old version of unshare 12:50:20 I can believe Arch, on the basis that multiple people have reported the same outcome with kernel versions in the 4s 12:52:12 so it has to be some rolling-release distro that's widely used 12:55:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:57:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:00:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 13:01:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:02:28 same here with Arch 13:02:46 hmm, I guess this is going to be really hard to test then 13:02:56 also, I guess unshare(1) isn't widely used 13:03:07 I didn't see any relevant results from a web search on the error message 13:03:17 * int-e switched to a kvm host for lambdabot to get namespace support 13:04:14 (the evaluation part runs as a seaparate user and with unshare(CLONE_NEWIPC | CLONE_NEWNET | CLONE_NEWNS) ) 13:07:09 hmm, secure boot may end up preventing people turning all these great kernel features on 13:07:32 on the other hand, it may force distros to turn them all on on the basis that people literally can't compile the kernel themself any more 13:08:06 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 13:08:21 Well, Docker is becoming quite popular and relies on namespace support. Also systemd has plans in that direction, I believe. 13:08:49 I'm actually surprised that Arch doesn't enable namespaces by default. 13:13:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:13:11 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/36969?project=1 tells a bit of the story; apparently the namespace feature is still suffering from holes. 13:13:29 this does not surprise me 13:13:43 being able to run a command as non-root and gain /all/ capabilities is crazy 13:13:50 even if most of them don't actually do anything 13:14:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Vioz- * New user account 13:15:04 Oh, I mixed this up. I need namespaces (CONFIG_*_NS), but not for arbitrary users (CONFIG_USER_NS). So never mind. 13:16:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:16:34 (lambdabot uses a suid program to do the namespace setup) 13:16:34 ais523: Reports from here: no '-U' in unshare at work desktop (distribution derived from Ubuntu 14.04); "unshare failed: Operation not permitted" on home desktop (Debian something); "unshare failed: Invalid argument" on VPS (Debian 8.1). 13:16:44 Aw, just a little bit late. 13:17:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:17:16 Or maybe not. 13:17:18 ais523: Reports from here: no '-U' in unshare at work desktop (distribution derived from Ubuntu 14.04); "unshare failed: Operation not permitted" on home desktop (Debian something); "unshare failed: Invalid argument" on VPS (Debian 8.1). 13:17:54 huh, that EPERM on unshare is interesting (the second one) 13:18:22 must have hit the narrow version range where it was root-only, or the somewhat less narrow range where certain distros restricted it to root only as a mitigation for potential security holes 13:18:35 on my Ubuntu 15.04, the unshare works, and setting uid_map works, but setting gid_map doesn't 13:18:45 which is so bizarrely asymmetric that it makes me suspect a bug 13:18:46 It's 3.16.0-4-amd64. 13:18:55 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Pics or it didn't happen). 13:19:49 [wiki] [[Stuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43771 * Vioz- * (+218) initial submission. 13:19:55 It's got 4.1.0-1-amd64 installed too, but I haven't had a chance to reboot lately. 13:26:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:26:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:28:56 aha, I think I found the cause of my problem 13:29:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:29:08 https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=87c31b39abcb6fb6bd7d111200c9627a594bf6a9 talks about "/proc/self/setgroups" which I've never heard of 13:29:25 and it isn't documented 13:29:29 but it seems very relevant 13:29:36 also I love the security hole it's there to work around 13:30:07 (you can have group permission lower than other permission on a file, thus dropping group membership via gid_map can give you higher perms on a file) 13:30:11 how very eso 13:36:30 -!- SopaXT has joined. 13:36:47 drwxrwxr-x 4 root root 4096 Aug 16 16:04 test 13:36:49 it works! 13:37:15 int-e: thanks for the bug report link, I found out what I was missing by chasing links from there 13:37:23 the solution is to write "deny" to /proc/self/setgroups 13:38:52 and here it is, my unshare -mUr replacement: http://sprunge.us/GRST 13:42:01 Hang on, what have you done 13:42:32 Taneb: have you tried running it yet? 13:42:45 No, it is scary 13:43:29 it's not weboflies itself, just a test file to play around with some of the features it needs 13:43:32 and it doesn't need root 13:44:18 what it does is /gives/ you root, but a restricted sort of root that isn't actually able to do anything malicious (in theory) 13:45:08 Oh dear god 13:46:06 I've been trying to mount filesystems using it 13:46:19 but loop mounts don't work because I can't read or write any of the loop devices 13:46:27 bind mounts work, mounting a new tmpfs works 13:46:37 mounting a physical block device doesn't work for obvious reasons 13:48:10 I think I did run across some context where group permissions were being used to "exclude" a group (as in, more bits for other than group), but it seemed highly nonstandard. 13:49:59 cygwin has an article about implementing permissions like that on Windows 13:50:23 it turns out that it's possible, but the configuration you have to use is so unusual that even just viewing the permissions in Explorer changes them to something semantically different 13:50:33 Oh, I remember that. 13:50:37 I think you linked to it before. 13:51:19 I possibly did 13:51:22 I can't remember where it is though 13:51:45 probably here?: http://cygwin.com/cygwin-ug-net/ntsec.html 13:51:54 Yes. 13:52:05 Under the "File permissions" heading. 13:53:09 ais523, how risky is this exploit? 13:53:56 Taneb: it's not an exploit, it's an intended feature 13:54:25 Being able to become root is an intended feature? 13:54:25 although based on the discussion in this channel, it's one with more security holes in than you'd expect from a typical intended Linux feature 13:54:38 Taneb: yes 13:55:15 because you can't do anything you couldn't do with your own account 13:55:26 at least, shouldn't be able to 13:55:50 also you can't interact with any user /but/ root (which is secretly your own account), e.g. su won't work 13:56:09 So it just makes me look like root or something? 13:56:55 it's sort-of like kernel fakeroot 13:57:09 however it does let you do various things you can't normally do as a user, that are meant to be safe when sandboxed 13:57:13 e.g. chroot 13:57:57 Can I chroot to a directory I can't otherwise access? 13:58:11 I seriously doubt it 13:58:12 ais523: Out of curiosity, if you "rootify" yourself like that, can you connect to a Unix domain socket in the non-unshared network namespace, and if you can, what would using SO_PASSCRED/SCM_CREDENTIALS report to the other end? 13:58:39 fizzie: I remember reading the answer to this but can't remember what it was 13:58:42 let me try to find it again 13:58:54 Yes, I can't 13:59:20 fizzie: you can, the only UID you can send is root (because it's the only one you can access), and the other end sees your own actual UID 13:59:36 Okay. Reasonable. 14:01:09 -!- nycs has joined. 14:02:48 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:04:07 Taneb: anyway, you are getting just a tiny taste of what WEB OF LIES does 14:04:22 basically, imagine this sort of shenanigans going on except for everything 14:04:37 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:04:41 :O 14:05:10 So, nothing is the user it seems it is, or something? 14:05:16 yep 14:05:25 name had to come from somewhere 14:05:36 but the hope is that everything the user sees is actually internally consistent 14:05:38 just all wrong 14:06:44 I should probably not play around with nsfakeroot as much as I do 14:06:59 maybe some day I'll /actually/ have root but mistake it for just another nsfakeroot 14:08:19 -!- SopaXT has joined. 14:10:32 That's when you wake up from the dream into another dream 14:10:40 What's Debian's fakeroot built on, LD_PRELOAD trickery on the syscall wrappers? 14:10:57 Apparently so. 14:11:04 fizzie: yes, it's pretty fragile 14:12:30 -!- atrapado has joined. 14:13:27 Dreams ♥ 14:16:01 -!- `^_^ has joined. 14:17:47 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 14:18:38 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:18:56 time to go home 14:19:04 -!- ais523 has quit. 14:26:55 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:28:43 -!- j-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:21:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:35:11 -!- SopaXT has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:36:26 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:37:05 -!- mauris has joined. 15:39:20 -!- GoToTell has joined. 15:39:43 -!- Wright has joined. 15:57:33 -!- mauris_ has joined. 16:00:48 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:06:36 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43772&oldid=43771 * 72.38.29.19 * (+1632) added commands for math function. 16:06:55 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:07:36 -!- mauris__ has joined. 16:07:40 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43773&oldid=43772 * Vioz- * (+0) /* Overview */ 16:10:32 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:10:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Temporarily Unstuck). 16:15:36 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:30:32 -!- Wright has joined. 16:30:49 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43774&oldid=43773 * Vioz- * (+1838) /* Overview */ 16:32:16 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43775&oldid=43774 * Vioz- * (+98) 16:33:29 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43776&oldid=43775 * Vioz- * (+119) /* Overview */ 16:37:57 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:41:00 -!- GoToTell has quit (Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-). 16:46:15 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 16:46:27 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 16:46:27 -!- mauris has joined. 16:50:55 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 17:10:43 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43777&oldid=43760 * Tripl3dogdare * (+910) 17:11:10 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:14:54 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43778&oldid=43777 * Tripl3dogdare * (+177) 17:15:25 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43779&oldid=43778 * Tripl3dogdare * (-46) 17:38:36 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43780&oldid=43779 * Tripl3dogdare * (-5) 17:41:37 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:46 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:26:22 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:28:07 The way I'm writing this operating system kernel, it'll allow you to do something hilarious. 18:28:17 So, right now I'm implementing dynamic memory allocation. 18:29:02 Dynamic memory allocators are going to be objects. You could, in principle, have a bunch of them, each with its own heap. 18:29:37 In practice, I don't see needing more than one. 18:29:52 Anyway... 18:30:27 Memory that's been allocated isn't actually associated with the heap any more, in any way. 18:30:58 And what this means is that if you have multiple dynamic memory allocators, you can allocate memory from one and "free" the memory using another one. 18:31:12 The result is that this section of memory will actually be moved between the heaps. 18:32:57 It's like a library system that doesn't care where you return books. 18:33:21 And libraries gain and lose books when people return them to different libraries. 18:51:00 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:57:25 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 19:08:51 -!- bb010g has joined. 19:08:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:18:50 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 19:19:28 -!- mauris has joined. 19:31:23 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:52:16 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43781&oldid=43776 * Vioz- * (+4096) 19:57:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:58:31 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 19:59:26 -!- mauris has joined. 20:05:02 -!- _256Q has joined. 20:15:21 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 20:16:32 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:17:24 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:27:07 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:59:58 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DigitalCannon * New user account 21:03:01 the wiki seems to be under attack 21:03:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:07:48 -!- atriq has joined. 21:12:06 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:14:24 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:17:15 What sort of attack? 21:17:23 fizzie: with a cannon hth 21:17:28 Ohhh. 21:18:57 edwardk: i think you would be the person to know the answer to this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32059754/are-there-useful-applications-for-the-divisible-type-class 21:20:19 * oerjan understatement 21:22:49 hm Control.Lens doesn't seem to use it, what is this? 21:23:30 -!- `^_^ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:28:18 [wiki] [[Niblet]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43782 * DigitalCannon * (+3297) Created page with "'''niblet''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] where nibbles are used to store data. Cat: ,<.<[[ Hello World: ++++<<< oerjan: bookmarked to answer 21:28:25 oerjan: discrimination uses it heavily 21:29:52 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43783&oldid=43743 * DigitalCannon * (+13) 21:35:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:40:36 edwardk: hm the new fancy hackage source browsing seems to break anchors http://hackage.haskell.org/package/discrimination-0.1/docs/src/Data-Discrimination-Grouping.html#Grouping 21:42:00 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:43:17 sad 21:43:32 oerjan: you should mention that to hvr 21:43:44 i think he was responsible in some way for the hackage source browsing 21:47:54 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:50:07 oerjan: That's pretty strange, the anchor on the "class Grouping a ..." line is -- the same as for "newtype Group", so it's there twice. 21:51:03 (Ditto for "class Grouping1".) 21:51:13 oh hm 21:51:31 there was a github issue about duplicated anchors, maybe this is known then. 21:52:43 except it was supposed to be fixed before that package was uploaded 21:53:38 If you mean https://github.com/haskell/hackage-server/issues/319 that seems to talk only about the line number anchors. 21:53:48 yeah 21:54:01 * oerjan doesn't have a github account. 21:54:15 The hscolour 1.21 fix it mentions just says "ensure that line-number anchors do not reset in literate code fragments". 21:54:31 But there's a 1.23 change "bugfix for anchor-generation for instance decls". 21:54:46 oh hm 21:55:30 It's not exactly an instance declaration, though, so maybe that's not related. 21:56:16 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43784&oldid=43780 * Tripl3dogdare * (+103) /* Hello, world! */ 21:56:45 If you're feeling really enthusiastic, maybe you could run the source through the newest hscolour and see if it's fixed or not. 21:56:59 um i don't 21:57:18 That's reasonable. I wouldn't, either. 21:58:11 oh hscolour uses darcs, no wonder i couldn't find it 22:02:03 fizzie: that hscolour version is also older than the discrimination version 22:02:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:05:41 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 22:06:28 -!- mauris has joined. 22:08:37 [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43785&oldid=43638 * Stalem * (+2951) Conjecture and interpreter source 22:16:47 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:39:49 -!- boily has joined. 22:40:16 bocanonicallyhily 22:43:51 helløstandarjan! 22:57:34 adiœurjan! 22:57:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STRUT CHICKEN). 23:48:16 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2015-08-18: 00:01:46 `unidecode c̣ 00:01:47 ​[U+0063 LATIN SMALL LETTER C] [U+0323 COMBINING DOT BELOW] 00:03:27 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 00:06:50 -!- mauris has joined. 00:09:26 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43786&oldid=43781 * Vioz- * (+490) 00:14:53 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 00:53:27 Do you know what typesetting system can use codes like this? @b"PRINTT bytes:tbl,width:int,@u(height:int),@u(skip:int) EXT:254 X" 00:55:59 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:08:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 01:10:06 Hellu 01:10:10 Who's on? 01:10:22 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 01:11:07 ain't nobody here 01:11:31 So there are various[citation needed] networking models 01:11:34 Client/Server 01:11:38 Peer-to-peer 01:11:42 Anyone have an esoteric one? 01:14:06 -!- mauris has joined. 01:14:43 Server-to-client-to-peers 01:14:44 There's a hybrid I suppose 01:14:45 But that's not very esoteric 01:22:40 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43787&oldid=43784 * Tripl3dogdare * (+952) v1.2 released! 01:23:37 I am on by now 01:24:00 I don't know of other models though 01:30:37 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43788&oldid=43787 * Tripl3dogdare * (+1) /* Computational class */ 01:33:07 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43789&oldid=43788 * Tripl3dogdare * (-23) /* Commands */ 01:35:05 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43790&oldid=43789 * Tripl3dogdare * (+11) /* Commands */ 01:47:25 nortti, new Evillious songs 01:47:47 Actually hmm not sure if any are new http://theevilliouschronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Original_Sin_Story:_Complete_Edition 02:02:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: GAH). 02:12:04 -!- trnv2 has joined. 02:12:28 which special characters can be in a linux password? 02:13:04 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:14:02 I don't know if there are any limits; maybe everything is allowed, or maybe null characters are not allowed, I don't know 02:14:52 esoteric netwroking: ephemeral server. Instead of having a server on all the time, the client program logs onto AWS and creates a virtual server. 02:15:26 (or replace AWS by azure or whatever) 02:15:50 my point is, the server is created by the client whenever it needs one 02:17:42 if two clients need to communicate, they instead tell the servers to communicate 02:19:06 etc. you can extrapolate all kinds of wtfy things from this architecture 02:25:40 -!- trnv2 has changed nick to trn. 02:36:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:36:42 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:48:32 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:50:26 I played a "rotris.gba" game and I made 79 lines. It is a variant of a tetris game where the more lines you made, the more the picture is spinning. 02:54:16 oh god what?! 02:56:46 (Also the ROM image is only 4288 bytes long in total (I believe it was made as part of a contest to make small GBA programs) and even includes music) 03:03:22 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 03:03:59 Hellu 03:04:16 Anyone on/ 03:04:23 s/\//?/ 03:05:55 Yes I am on by now 03:06:34 Would an INTERNATIONAL ESOLANG DESIGN COMPETITION be a cool idea? 03:07:24 Lighthearted and fun, of course 03:07:35 To foster novel and creative ideas 03:08:02 Maybe. Something like that might have been done before, I don't really know for sure 03:08:26 I think I'll host one 03:09:07 I'm going to start documenting the rules and such 03:13:20 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:13:25 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43791&oldid=43790 * Tripl3dogdare * (-33) 03:13:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 03:13:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:16:23 [wiki] [[MagiStack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43792&oldid=43791 * Tripl3dogdare * (-203) /* Computational class */ 03:43:15 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:44:26 Hi Frooxius 03:44:33 fungot: 03:44:33 hppavilion[1]: moreover with a large body of them. i suppose writing programs is not the 03:44:42 fungot 03:44:42 hppavilion[1]: i think cast can have just two exits for a while to come up with the way chicken builds? 03:45:46 xfungotx 03:45:46 izabera: did i just join ml, ocaml, etc? 04:01:08 So 04:01:31 Does anyone want to participate in/judge an Esolang Design Competiton? 04:07:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 04:18:27 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:26:07 did you know that over 60kb in lostkng.b are perfectly pointless? 04:27:54 i wrote a simple cleaner that removes stuff like >< +- and loops that are never executed, the size was 2189420 bytes and the output is 2128155 bytes 04:30:33 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:30:42 -!- Wright has joined. 04:33:51 oh...... it looks like my cleaner only removed 2kb and the rest were just \r\n... 04:34:05 still, 2kb of useless code! 04:35:45 I think C should interpret \A as \001, \B as \002 etc 04:36:44 why? 04:38:05 because then \A would equal the keystroke ctrl-A, etc. 04:38:18 yes but why 04:39:30 convenience and correspondence to ASCII. \n for linefeed, \a for bell etc are too arbitrary. 04:40:16 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:41:01 \n Newline \r carriage Return \b Backspace \e Escape \f Form feed \v Vertical thingy 04:41:25 i forgot the others 04:42:08 ah of course \t Tab 04:42:22 \a is for Alert methinks 04:43:03 yeah 04:43:20 i mean they kinda make sense 04:44:54 \G bel \H backspace \I tab \J linefeed \K vert.tab \L formfeed \M carriage return 04:45:35 you can enter these chars at any terminal using the buttons or the corresponding ctrl-letter there is no difference. 04:45:50 who ever used ^L for anything 04:46:11 also who ever liked that damn bell 04:47:51 bell is good for notifications but some asshole programs bell when you enter a wrong character... so most poeple disable audible bell 04:48:17 everyone who needs to keep some level of sanity 04:48:48 vim also has the idiotc _visible_ bell 04:48:56 in which the screen flashes 04:49:08 -!- singingboyo has joined. 04:49:10 bash is the main culprit, it beeps every time you try to autocomplete a wrong name 04:50:03 to disable it for all the readline programs, put this in your .inputrc: set bell-style none 04:50:33 oh so it's readline's problem? those assholes 04:50:42 -!- singingboyo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:50:57 readline is developed by the same author of bash 04:51:02 and it's shipped as part of bash 04:51:10 so yeah it's bash's fault 04:52:11 form feed should clear the screen but it doesn't? 04:52:15 hmmm 04:53:02 ^L by default is bound to clear-screen in emacs mode 04:53:09 (the default mode) 04:54:10 so it should clear it unless you messed with something 04:56:35 I mean on output. 04:57:08 uh? 04:57:45 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:59:07 I enabled audible bell, it was disabled by default at first 04:59:17 whyyyyy 04:59:48 Do you mean why I enabled it, why it was disabled at first, or both? 05:00:04 the former 05:01:09 So that the bell can be use! But I had to create a sound file to do so I just used SoX to create a square-wave sound and used that as the X bell sound. 05:01:37 unbelievable x.x 05:31:00 oerjan: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8569129&postcount=19 hth 05:32:10 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:39:10 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43793&oldid=43783 * 50.170.122.255 * (+10) /* Non-alphabetic */ 05:39:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 05:41:12 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:41:34 [wiki] [[Snowman]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43794 * 50.170.122.255 * (+249) Created page with "'''Snowman''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by Stack Exchange user Doorknob. ==External Resources== * https://github.com/KeyboardFire/snowman-lang Interp..." 05:42:32 [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43795&oldid=43794 * 50.170.122.255 * (-2) /* External Resources */ 05:43:18 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43796&oldid=43793 * 50.170.122.255 * (+14) /* S */ 05:53:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 05:54:09 [wiki] [[Retina]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43797&oldid=43735 * 50.170.122.255 * (+243) 05:55:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:40:50 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:50:11 -!- a21 has joined. 07:26:10 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:31:15 -!- fowl has quit (Quit: zz). 07:33:53 -!- x10A94 has joined. 07:37:54 [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43798&oldid=43795 * 86.6.211.224 * (+85) /* External Resources */ added link to Doorknob's tutorial. 07:39:42 -!- fowl has joined. 07:43:58 i like the idea behind snowman 07:44:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:20:00 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 08:27:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:34:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:35:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:36 -!- fowl has quit (Quit: zz). 09:03:18 -!- fowl has joined. 09:23:20 -!- fowl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:28:20 -!- fowl has joined. 09:48:36 https://github.com/SirCmpwn/bf-irc-bot 09:54:06 -!- lleu has joined. 10:05:56 -!- fowl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:13:33 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Orlando * New user account 10:21:26 [wiki] [[User:Orlando]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43799 * Orlando * (+131) Created page with "Hi! I haven't created any esoteric programming language yet, but I am working on a new one. It will be a stack-oriented language." 10:22:37 [wiki] [[User:Orlando]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43800&oldid=43799 * Orlando * (+4) 10:22:57 [wiki] [[User:Orlando]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43801&oldid=43800 * Orlando * (+4) 10:26:44 -!- vodkode has joined. 10:27:49 -!- boily has joined. 10:42:49 fungot: fnellord. 10:42:49 boily: the former species is more robust: if you start inserting from the ends of lists so many times 10:42:50 -!- mauris has joined. 10:43:22 mauris: fnellord to you too. 10:55:21 -!- notfowl has joined. 10:58:29 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 11:21:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SOLIPSISTIC CHICKEN). 11:39:17 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:41:04 -!- glowcoil has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:06:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:08:12 -!- azertie has joined. 12:08:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:08:32 hello 12:27:28 -!- glowcoil has joined. 12:27:53 hello 12:28:15 how r u 12:30:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:34:31 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:36:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:37:05 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:40:11 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 12:40:13 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:47:47 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:48:33 -!- glowcoil has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:49:09 -!- augur has joined. 12:53:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:57:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:00:03 -!- azertie has quit (Quit: In Shame.). 13:01:26 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:03:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:09:06 -!- nisstyre has joined. 13:13:22 -!- augur has joined. 13:23:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:27:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 13:34:33 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43802&oldid=43699 * Vioz- * (+31) added Stuck 13:35:00 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:35:07 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43803&oldid=43802 * Vioz- * (+29) /* Stuck */ 13:35:26 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43804&oldid=43803 * Vioz- * (-1) /* Stuck */ 13:35:38 -!- glowcoil has joined. 13:40:55 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:41:36 -!- coppro has joined. 13:47:38 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 13:48:55 -!- GeekDude has joined. 13:49:17 Sgeo: seems queen of the glass, barisol's child is only a child and a song I heard somewhere are new 13:51:21 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 13:55:45 @tell shachaf oerjan: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8569129&postcount=19 hth <-- thx tmhh 13:55:45 Consider it noted. 14:14:53 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43805&oldid=43691 * Rdebath * (+152) TOC ---> 14:17:40 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:19:24 -!- mauris has joined. 14:22:58 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:24:01 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:24:06 -!- augur has joined. 14:25:53 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:26:18 -!- lleu has joined. 14:26:18 -!- lleu has quit (Changing host). 14:26:18 -!- lleu has joined. 14:38:49 -!- x1365C has joined. 14:42:01 -!- x10A94 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:42:07 -!- x1365C has changed nick to x10A94. 14:44:55 -!- lambdabot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:46:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:48:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:50:13 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 14:52:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:54:42 -!- ineiros_ has joined. 14:55:41 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:57:24 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:58:20 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi. 14:58:39 -!- kline has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:59:22 -!- kline has joined. 14:59:27 -!- nycs has joined. 14:59:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:59:40 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 14:59:40 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (*.net *.split). 14:59:41 -!- a21 has quit (*.net *.split). 14:59:41 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 15:00:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:02:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:04:19 -!- _256Q has joined. 15:06:21 -!- a21 has joined. 15:07:15 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 15:09:45 -!- YokeOfIdea has joined. 15:09:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:10:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:12:13 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:13:35 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:14:41 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:22:30 -!- kline has changed nick to ayylmao. 15:23:55 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43806&oldid=43786 * 72.38.29.19 * (+833) 15:24:28 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43807&oldid=43806 * 72.38.29.19 * (+0) /* Overview */ 15:24:45 -!- ayylmao has changed nick to kline. 15:27:43 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43808&oldid=43807 * 72.38.29.19 * (+233) 15:31:06 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43809&oldid=43808 * 72.38.29.19 * (+61) /* Examples */ 15:36:05 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43810&oldid=43809 * 72.38.29.19 * (+35) /* Examples */ 15:36:39 -!- glowcoil has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:36:39 -!- mbrcknl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:39:43 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43811&oldid=43810 * 72.38.29.19 * (+29) /* Examples */ 15:42:49 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43812&oldid=43811 * Vioz- * (+179) /* Overview */ 15:45:59 -!- glowcoil has joined. 15:55:58 -!- Wright has joined. 16:01:26 -!- mbrcknl has joined. 16:10:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:10:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:14:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:15:49 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2). 16:23:25 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:26:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:43:58 google now in the wifi business 16:44:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:44:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:47:18 Oh? 16:47:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:50:52 Taneb: https://on.google.com/hub/ 16:52:14 The top of that router looks like a showerhead 16:52:32 I thought the whole thing looked suspiciously like Amazon Echo. 16:52:45 Taneb: is it true they have something called "electric shower" in the uk 16:52:50 @messages- 16:52:50 oerjan said 2h 57m 5s ago: oerjan: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8569129&postcount=19 hth <-- thx tmhh 16:52:57 shachaf, yes 16:53:06 shachaf: I have an electric shower. 16:53:07 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:53:27 shachaf, it is different to an electricity shower 16:53:34 Taneb: understood 16:53:45 what does it do and how can i get one 16:53:56 It heats up your water on-line. 16:54:24 You just plug it in a cold water supply, and it heats it up while the water's passing through. 16:55:06 I heard y'all maybe also have showers where you set the temperature, instead of the hot and cold pressures? 16:56:11 There are showers with hot and cold pressures? 16:56:21 That's a bizarre thought. 16:56:41 UK has a number of taps with separate cold/hot controls (sometimes even separate taps), which is something you never see in Finland. 16:56:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:56:43 This one of the things like "Using a microwave to boil water for tea" 16:56:53 http://www.sakabe.nuie.nagoya-u.ac.jp/Malbolge/ this is too many papers about malbolge 16:57:01 I don't think I've seen it much in showers though. 16:57:18 fizzie, that dates back to when there was a boiler in the attic which could get contaminated 16:57:30 Cold water was potable, hot water was not necessarily 16:57:55 For my cheap electric shower, you set one three-state toggle between "cold / hot / even hotter" (determines the heating power), and then adjust a "temperature slider" which actually adjusts the flow rate. The "hot end" passes less water through, and the cold end more. 16:59:03 Thanks to the low-granularity heating power switch, if the tap water cools down enough so that the lower heating setting isn't enough, you'll start to waste both electricity *and* water, because you have to turn the heating up to max, and then compensate by also increasing the water flow. 17:01:54 fizzie: Fun 17:03:20 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 17:04:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:07:42 How do I change the autocompletion of some programs with bash? By default it uses any filename, but with some programs it can know to do it differently; how is this and how to put in your own customizations? 17:08:56 zzo38: Look at the Programmable Completion part of the bash manpage 17:09:24 OK 17:10:31 Whelp. Theoretically, my OS kernel has dynamic memory allocation now. 17:11:21 What sort of algorithm should I implement in order to test it out? 17:15:36 I could... reverse a linked list! 17:15:47 Yes, that sounds best. 17:16:44 tswett: Flip a tree upside down 17:17:03 I just wrote a bash completion thing the other day. 17:17:06 [wiki] [[CJam]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43813&oldid=40310 * Nooodl * (+646) expand stub 17:17:46 [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43814&oldid=43588 * Nooodl * (+27) 17:17:59 I think generally you just write a shell function that looks at and sets some magic "COMP*" variables, and then call "complete -F _function_name command" to make tabbing after 'command' to call that function to generate the completions. 17:18:16 O, you did? 17:18:22 data Branch a (AntiTree a) (AntiTree a) | Leaf = AntiTree a 17:18:28 In my case I want to get the results from a SQL query 17:20:54 What I wrote lets you write "command X Y", and X is tab-completed based on a longish list of words from a file, while Y is completed from a hardcoded list of 7 words. 17:21:03 fizzie: I guess that's the opposite of what I was describing. 17:22:07 It looks like http://sprunge.us/ROQc 17:23:23 tswett: That's a normal tree 17:23:35 Oh, I see what you did 17:24:32 I think it's just data AntiTree a = Root a | Node a (AntiTree a) 17:25:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:25:36 what is an antitree 17:26:02 I want to know such answer too please 17:26:16 apparently upside-down tree? 17:26:50 I remember reading about GC with antiroots. 17:27:02 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:39:06 FreeFull: that looks a lot like a non-empty list 18:16:00 -!- nycs has joined. 18:17:52 -!- vodkode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:18:12 mauris: Consider that each AntiTree will be shared by two Nodes 18:18:35 Or possibly any amount 18:19:46 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:20:00 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:20:59 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:22:06 -!- lemurian has joined. 18:25:11 Hmm. I could come up with the linear logic dual of a Tree. 18:25:16 Regular version: 18:25:53 Tree(a) = (a * Tree(a) * Tree(a)) + 1 18:26:11 Dual version: 18:27:24 Eert(a) = (a ⅋ Eert(a) ⅋ Eert(a)) & ⊥ 18:27:46 Which is a little weird, I know. 18:28:29 The thing about ⅋ is that it's hard to interpret. 18:29:35 `? rust 18:29:36 rust? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:29:42 `learn Rust is the Haskell version of C. 18:29:44 Learned 'rust': Rust is the Haskell version of C. 18:35:21 -!- notfowl has quit (Quit: zz). 18:36:01 `` sed -i 's/C/C++/' wisdom/rust 18:36:02 No output. 18:36:11 It's probably more like the ML version of C++, anyway. 18:36:17 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 18:36:21 -!- notfowl has joined. 18:40:55 -!- notfowl has quit (Quit: zz). 18:41:21 -!- notfowl has joined. 18:44:11 noooooooooooooo 18:51:00 Maybe we can compromise. 18:51:28 `le/rn rust/C++ is the Java version of C. Rust is the Haskell version of C. 18:51:30 Learned «rust» 18:51:35 `? rust 18:51:36 C++ is the Java version of C. Rust is the Haskell version of C. 18:51:45 Or maybe Rust is the Scala version of C? 18:52:09 `? wisdom 18:52:10 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 18:52:17 By the way... 18:52:20 `? monoid 18:52:21 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 18:53:01 tswett: No, those are all wrong. 18:54:20 Hey, I have a great idea. 18:55:49 `learn Rust is what Haskell would be if it were C++. 18:55:51 Learned 'rust': Rust is what Haskell would be if it were C++. 18:57:38 No, wait. 18:57:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:59:27 `learn Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell. 18:59:29 Learned 'rust': Rust is C++ as designed by the makers of Haskell. 18:59:34 There we go. 18:59:40 None of these are true. 19:00:19 `? truth 19:00:20 truth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:01:07 int-e: when's the next olist twhib 19:01:51 `? oots 19:01:52 oots? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:01:56 `? olist 19:01:56 oh, you might be the wrong person to ask 19:01:57 Update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/ootslatest.html 19:02:21 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:04:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBS). 19:18:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 19:19:04 Hello 19:19:15 I need help 19:20:05 zzo38? 19:20:35 No, he doesn't appear to be on... 19:20:44 I am on 19:20:48 Oh 19:20:49 Great 19:20:49 What did you require? 19:21:12 I'm trying to figure out the best way to interface with a tree for an OO Data Structure-Based shell I'm designing 19:21:23 What are the ways I could do this? 19:21:34 I could do a pointer head of course 19:21:43 But that seems closer to esoteric 19:21:56 I do not completely understand what you are making 19:22:06 It's a CLI 19:22:12 Based on data structures 19:22:17 I can send you a link to the doc 19:22:38 https://docs.google.com/document/d/18PNux6Q2niEapkoeMVcrB6gJRVkPOaD6O2nKJos_LE0/edit?usp=sharing 19:22:49 Do you have the one that isn't Google Docs? 19:22:54 Sorry 19:22:56 No :/ 19:23:03 Do you have something about tracking? 19:23:22 About tracking what? 19:23:29 By google 19:23:37 I was wondering why you didn't want the Docs link 19:23:41 I could just give you a brief overview if you like 19:23:43 I just don't like Google Docs; it is terrible. 19:24:00 It's pretty good if you can't stay on one computer all the time 19:24:14 And it's pretty 19:24:24 Do you want the overview? 19:24:28 Yes, OK 19:24:31 OK 19:24:32 So 19:24:34 It's a CLI 19:24:38 Based around data structures 19:24:40 For example 19:24:56 A command's syntax is similar to a normal command 19:24:58 BUT 19:25:08 It starts with an object reference (object.command) 19:25:28 The objects you can reference are data structures (linked lists, bloom filters, binary trees, etc) 19:25:44 I'm trying to decide how the semantics for the trees should work 19:26:01 The way I was going to do it is with a pointer head that's over a node and can be moved with a MOVE command 19:26:06 But that sems a bit esoteric 19:26:12 I still will probably use it 19:26:17 But is there a better way? 19:26:44 Make the object to have the property of the children node and parent node, may be also some way? 19:27:10 Can you provide an example of the syntax for that? 19:27:46 It depend on the exact format of the tree, I think 19:27:54 Assume it's binary 19:28:08 How would I set the value of the left child of the right child of the root node to n 19:28:18 On a tree named "t" 19:29:05 Something such as t.right.left=n is I would suppose? You could though have MOVE command to select them too, like you use CHDIR and stuff in DOS and Windows 19:29:17 That's an idea 19:29:18 Ah 19:29:34 It'd be t.right.left.set n 19:29:43 Yes that is also the way 19:30:25 I'll keep that under consideration 19:31:00 For working file if you aren't always on one computer all the time, for me using vi over ssh works fine (or use emacs if you prefer emacs), or a wiki can be used too, but SSH is better 19:31:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:31:24 I'm on windows :( 19:31:32 I've been meaning to back up my computer 19:31:43 Then dual-boot Windows and Ubuntu or something 19:32:01 If you have a server with UNIX, it can still be connected using Windows, by using a program such as PuTTY 19:32:51 (Although it will be more difficult to use the GUI programs unless you have a X server for Windows too. Stuff such as vi and so on won't need the GUI though) 19:33:11 I prefer to use formatting :P 19:33:24 Markdown is optimal, but WYSIWYG is acceptable 19:34:01 You can edit Markdown too with vi or emacs or whatever, but you will need the program that can then render it or convert it. 19:34:07 I suppose so 19:34:19 WYSIWYG is I don't like it much 19:34:25 I know 19:34:38 But it's OK for writing docs that the masses can understand 19:34:44 And it looks nice while editing 19:34:51 Because it lets me see what I'm doing 19:36:36 What other ways could the user interact with a tree? 19:37:05 Possibly, execute command for each node, I suppose 19:37:20 Because t.left.right.right.left.right.left.left.... gets exhausting pretty quickly 19:37:27 s/..../.../ 19:37:39 Ugh 19:37:46 A different command for every node? 19:37:56 Something like t."lrrlrll" maybe can be shortcut too 19:38:01 That'd get hard to remember 19:38:03 Ooh 19:38:04 Good idea 19:38:28 I'm going to have two types of DS 19:38:38 Headed Trees and Normal Trees 19:38:46 Normal Trees will use your method 19:39:03 Whereas Headed Trees will use a Read/write head 19:40:04 Maybe 19:40:29 OK, but couldn't you have something like "CHDIR" instead, if you are at t.left.right and then you can type .right.left.right.left.left.set n and it uses relative by the dot at first. 19:41:27 Possibly 19:41:40 I might add that 19:41:57 What are the major useful types of tree? 19:42:02 There's a Binary Tree 19:42:11 A First-Child/Next-Sibling General Tree 19:42:44 B-Tree? 19:42:52 I don't know, if you need rose-tree 19:43:28 Rain is not, as I had assumed, an optical illusion 19:44:05 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Vioz- * uploaded "[[File:N6FractalTree.png]]": n=6 fractal tree 19:44:37 I'll add them as I think of them 19:44:53 What language am I going to make this in? 19:45:02 I know python best 19:45:16 But C/C++ would be good 19:45:28 But it's kind of a dynamically-typed language 19:45:30 I don't know; you can decide what you want to use 19:45:44 I would probably prefer C, but you use what you like 19:45:48 And I can't find any resources on making a DT language in a ST language 19:46:49 It shouldn't be too difficult; I have done it before too 19:47:12 How? 19:47:20 And this language uses a LOT of data structures 19:47:25 So THAT could be an issue 19:47:34 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Vioz- * uploaded "[[File:N12DragonCurve.png]]": n=12 dragon curve 19:47:39 Having a map where the values are other DSes in C or C++ 19:47:46 I'll probably just use Python 19:48:03 If you look at the codes of some other programs (such as METAFONT and SQLite) for some other examples of a few things. 19:48:07 And if anyone out there finds it interesting they can reimplement it in the language of their choice 19:48:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:48:16 OK 19:48:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:48:54 And I'll probably just use trees with a RW head for now, as that seems like the simplest option and best for people 19:49:14 OK 19:52:11 [wiki] [[LindenMASM]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43817 * Vioz- * (+2564) initial submission. 19:55:03 [wiki] [[LindenMASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43818&oldid=43817 * Vioz- * (+4) /* External Resources */ 19:56:27 -!- grotewold has joined. 19:56:48 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 19:58:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:58:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:00:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:01:26 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:07:56 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:12:47 -!- notfowl has changed nick to fowl. 20:13:34 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:15:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:18:31 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:24:34 -!- aretecode has joined. 20:26:48 what's the best windows shell? 20:30:09 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 20:32:06 -!- mauris has joined. 20:32:30 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:37:59 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 20:40:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:40:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:42:31 Powershell 20:54:30 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:56:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:59:28 -!- mauris has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 21:04:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:28 -!- grotewold has joined. 21:16:51 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:16:57 Hellu 21:17:18 argh missing logs 21:19:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:22:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:24:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:28:19 Trivia: one of my friends defines a macro to add a "do not" block to his C++ 21:28:34 arghjan 21:29:05 -!- mauris has joined. 21:29:15 Aren't there at least two sources for logs? 21:30:53 yes, and one of them was missing parts hth 21:31:29 oerjan: so what do you make of this southern calendar thing 21:31:33 imo it's disappointing 21:32:14 Goodnight, all 21:32:43 Goodneb 21:34:10 it would have been cooler if the calendar had new year at solstice. otoh do we have proof that it doesn't. 21:34:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:38:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:40:42 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:42:30 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: welp, see you later.). 21:45:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:49:27 -!- mauris has joined. 21:50:36 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 21:50:42 god probably the thing i google the most is "ascii table" 21:51:47 Why limit yourself to ASCII? 21:52:25 I have a keyboard shortcut that opens a terminal window with less unic.txt, where unic.txt is http://slbkbs.org/unic.txt 21:54:50 Opening that 21:55:01 Froze my phone 21:55:33 i blame samsung 21:56:33 shachaf: usually I only need an overview over all of ASCII, as this mostly tends to be for code golf stuff 21:57:05 -!- boily has joined. 21:57:07 @metar CYUL 21:57:07 CYUL 182100Z 15008KT 15SM FEW030TCU FEW150 BKN210 29/22 A2991 RMK TCU1AC1CI6 TCU TR SLP128 DENSITY ALT 1800FT 21:58:51 mauris: man ascii hth 21:59:13 Oh, you use Windows. 21:59:26 -!- lleu has joined. 21:59:39 i use both! 22:00:04 depending on how nice man ascii looks, that might be a good solution, though 22:00:57 Both Windows and man? 22:01:05 http://www.asciitable.com/index/asciifull.gif this table (the first google result) is pretty nice, but i don't use the octal/html columns 22:01:25 both windows and unixy stuff 22:01:44 (heck, i spend a lot of time in cygwin shells, so sure, maybe i can get `man ascii` to work on there) 22:02:25 i'm not sure what the purpose of the html column is. it's just &#decimal; except sometimes it doesn't exist 22:03:09 i wonder what other fascinating tables lookuptables.com has to offer?? 22:03:34 "ads" 22:04:49 ebcdic?! i--ibm scan codes 22:06:31 i love ascii \x00 through x\1f. who still uses things like 'FIELD SEPARATOR' 22:06:40 I sometimes use it 22:06:57 i mean err FILE 22:07:35 Yes, I sometimes use it 22:08:38 zzo38: in programs you wrote yourself? 22:08:43 Yes 22:09:13 Although I use the RECORD SEPARATOR and UNIT SEPARATOR more often, although other control codes also are sometime use, not very often though. 22:09:48 who uses 0x01 START OF HEADING? 22:10:42 I do, when I'm using codepage 437. 22:10:45 I have use that one too. "ASCII Records Format" which is a data format I invented uses START OF HEADING and some of the other controls for delimiting data 22:11:06 answer: this one scow protocol used for exchanging financial information 22:11:45 tswett: tswellott. you seem undecided about rust. would you like to become the Maintainer of the Wisdom Entry in the PDF? 22:16:45 int-e: What happened to lambdabot's @read command? 22:16:53 Could we have it back? It was great. 22:19:52 @show 13 22:19:53 "13" 22:20:04 was it the opposite of that 22:20:22 @help show 22:20:22 show . Print "" 22:20:34 -!- mauris_ has joined. 22:20:48 > var "foo" 22:20:49 foo 22:21:11 so @read is somewhat redundant 22:22:08 @@ @show @run var @show @run var "hi" 22:22:11 " hi\n" 22:22:14 -!- atrapado has joined. 22:22:26 maybe a _little_ off. 22:23:01 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:23:15 @show hm 22:23:15 "hm" 22:23:42 @@ @show @run var @show @run var " hi" 22:23:45 " hi\n" 22:25:49 -!- MDude has joined. 22:30:02 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 22:34:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined. 22:34:31 Hellu 22:38:27 hppavellon[1]! 22:40:44 Hellø 22:40:47 Hi boily 22:40:58 I'm considering hosting an International Esolang Design Competition 22:41:06 Just lighthearted and fun, of course 22:41:13 Do you think that'd be a good idea boily? 22:41:26 i recall the last one rather fizzled out... 22:41:41 where would it be? will there be Chinese and/or Vietnamese food nearby? 22:41:47 hellørjan. there was one? 22:41:55 boily: It'd be submitted online 22:41:56 or was that a collaborative one... 22:42:19 boily: So if you want to be somewhere near Chinese and/or Vietnamese food when you are designing 22:42:22 Be my guest 22:42:30 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory 22:42:47 before that, there were the Essies, some of which actually had results 22:43:04 (back in the mailing list days) 22:43:27 Cool 22:44:04 mailing list? today is a learning day. 22:45:09 I tried to start a new mailing list 22:45:13 No one signed up :P 22:45:34 there were 5 Essies, only the first two of which have any interesting results, and only the first of which has a known winner 22:46:14 We've got them listed at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_Awards 22:46:16 hppavilion[1]: the mailing list died because people stopped using it. there's just no market. 22:46:27 that's what i was looking at. 22:46:29 hppavilion[1]: I knwo 22:46:34 Wait 22:46:38 What did I just do 22:46:40 Huh? 22:46:43 oerjan: I know 22:46:47 Thats' better 22:46:51 I wouldn't be surprised if there were more people using gopher than mailing lists. 22:46:53 *that's 22:46:56 "2003: It is not known if the Essies were held in 2003." I think you could say that for more years. 22:46:57 i might technically still be subscribed to the list, in receive-no-mail mode... 22:47:20 oh. 4 known Essies then. 22:47:22 I was just trying to see if anyone wanted to restart it for the retro value :P 22:48:29 [wiki] [[SumaMoito]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43819&oldid=36437 * Atrapado * (+311) reference the incomplete implementation project in github. 22:49:07 Kayak and LazyK are the languages that stuck in my mind. i would say sorted! but it seems to have unstuck again. 22:49:46 [wiki] [[International Esolang Design Competition]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43820 * Hppavilion1 * (+263) Did the same thing over and over again and expected different results. 22:51:37 boily: well Agora still works by mailing list, and the haskell community has several that are reasonably alive... 22:52:47 although many people, like me, might be following the latter via some site other than their personal mailbox 22:54:05 the original mailing list for Agora just died in the last year, it was still officially a backup 22:54:34 r.i.p. yoyo 22:54:48 [wiki] [[SumaMoito]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43821&oldid=43819 * Atrapado * (+1) /* Implementation */ fix typo. 23:03:50 oerjan: indeed. I follow GHC and other announcements on /r/haskell. 23:04:08 the best way to enjoy agoring is through irc, imho, hth. 23:05:16 Actually I think the FORMCARD protocol I have designed once even uses the SYNCHRONOUS IDLE control code (although for some kinds of underlying transfer protocols it will not be needed). 23:05:24 i also follow /r/haskell, of course, but that's not what i meant: i follow some of the mailing lists just by browsing the haskell.org/pipermail archives 23:05:43 did you know spj's messages look horrible when converted to plain text 23:06:12 today is definitely a learning day. 23:06:23 (Although it is designed to use ASCII, it is possible to implement it using other character sets too, such as EBCDIC or ISO646 or Unicode) 23:06:49 boily: the irc channel is, afaict, not an Agora Public Forum, or even publically archived. but then neither of us is a Player at present. 23:07:47 also technically it's not even limited to Agora, but other nomics aren't that often discussed. 23:09:38 oerjan: is /r/haskell terrible these days 23:09:43 i stopped following it a while ago 23:09:54 good eeing 23:10:35 It is the protocol for defining and transfering forms, independently of the way it is displayed and filled in (for example it can be a HTML form, it could be a block terminal, it could be filled in on paper and scanned into the computer, or it could be filled in on paper and then the operator manually enters the data into the computer) 23:10:46 hm ##nomic actually _is_ an official Agora discussion forum. 23:11:58 shachaf: well the people blaming Stack/FPComplete for dividing the community are a bit tiring. 23:12:30 there seems to be some hope for more productive interchange lately, though 23:12:36 especially for someone who's entirely interested in the theoretical aspects of haskell? 23:13:19 oh i wouldn't know, too much theory at once liquifies my brain 23:13:37 oren: helloren. back to the unslashed version of yourself? 23:14:28 I suppose 23:16:05 also i tend to skip a lot of posts rehashing old discussions 23:16:22 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:17:07 fizzie: EEK 23:18:39 fizzie: ÄÄÄÄÄH! 23:32:44 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:41:44 boily: r/haskell/ ? Is that anything like s/haskell/whatever/ ? 23:41:47 :P :P :P 23:42:20 * boily expressively mapoles hppavilion[1] 23:42:47 I deserved that 23:43:09 nothing beats a mapole for karmic realignment. 23:44:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:28 Well 23:45:34 I am now writing a trollfic 23:45:36 That happened 23:46:45 r/haskell/ would seem to attempt to read a directory named /haskell/ , i'm not sure that's a legal use of the command. 23:47:14 Ah 23:47:23 * boily realigns hppavilion[1] 23:47:24 @arr /haskell/ 23:47:24 I'll keel haul ya fer that! 23:47:33 `` touch test; sed -i 'r/haskell/' test 23:47:35 I'm still writing a Trollfic 23:47:35 No output. 23:47:39 `cat test 23:47:40 No output. 23:47:45 And now it's erotic, no less 23:48:05 I'm trying to take something as stupid as possible and write something almost half decent 23:48:27 * oerjan is reminded of that oglaf thing 23:48:35 Decent in the "good" sense of the word, not the "appropriate" sense of the word 23:48:38 Ah, oglaf 23:49:45 hm... 23:50:21 `` touch test; sed -i 'rwisdom/' test 23:50:22 No output. 23:50:26 `` cat test 23:50:27 No output. 23:50:33 nope 23:52:07 `` echo $'a\nb' | sed 'rwisdom/hth' 23:52:07 a \ hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. \ b \ hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. 23:53:12 fancy 23:53:38 `` echo a | sed rwisdom/ 23:53:38 sed: read error on wisdom/: Is a directory \ a 23:53:43 aww 2015-08-19: 00:07:22 -!- fungot has joined. 00:07:35 I fixeded it. 00:07:45 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:07:47 fungot: welcome back! (and don't insult my mom.) 00:07:47 boily: do you have 00:07:53 fungot: yes I have. 00:07:53 boily: what do you mean? did you really need to get to your point? can you watch flv? 00:08:05 fungot: I have it, tsé. yes, and yes. 00:08:05 boily: yes!! 00:08:37 Scary. 00:08:53 `botsnack 00:08:54 ​>:-D 00:08:59 uhm. 00:09:01 !botsnack 00:09:03 ​^_^ 00:09:06 aurgh. 00:09:09 ^botsnack 00:09:13 @botsnack 00:09:14 :) 00:09:23 fungot: you seem left out 00:09:23 oerjan: but if you evaluate something like ' fnord'." case matters." and " typos"? must be. 00:09:39 a typo in the botsnack command. understandable. 00:09:43 fungot: Thanks for reverting back to insensibility. 00:09:43 fizzie: 5 minutes have passed control on to a guy who loves you for shutting up to love me. 00:09:52 ^def botsnack ul (Oh nom nom nom!)S 00:09:52 Defined. 00:09:56 ^botsnack 00:09:56 Oh nom nom nom! 00:09:59 ^save 00:09:59 OK. 00:10:08 * boily pats fungot 00:10:09 boily: no he's gonna patrol fnord/ fnord that, r2q2. i have neither had the opportunity to discover all of this 00:27:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GLUTINOUS CHICKEN). 00:35:26 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 00:37:06 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:49:56 Randian Algorithmic Methods, the objectivist-oriented programming language 00:52:10 -!- Wallacoloo1 has joined. 00:53:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:54:04 -!- GeekDude has joined. 01:02:10 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43822&oldid=43804 * 206.174.179.24 * (+2) Renaming APL to AnyPL because APL is not an esoteric language (despite appearances). 01:03:57 -!- a21 has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1). 01:12:20 nortti, are translated versions out? 01:19:58 Machine-Base-32: digits are @ thru _ 01:21:11 e.g. hex 127 = mb32 C_ 01:22:27 oren: @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_? 01:22:56 yeah. it goes well with machine hex, which uses digits 0 thru ? 01:23:59 -!- Wallacoloo1 has left. 01:24:17 oren: huh, i can imagine how that works / why that exists, but i can't find any source that uses it 01:24:39 It doesn't exist to my knowlefge 01:24:47 I just invented them 01:25:14 Machine-Alphabets: upper case A thru Z, lower case [ thru t 01:27:19 machine hex prevents problematic numbers like B16B00B5 from occurring 01:29:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:29:30 oren: I assume you haven't translated 0xCDD8 into machine hex. 01:29:53 SHIT 01:30:23 AAAAA you ruined everything 01:31:11 I'm pretty good at it 01:31:54 Well, machine-32 makes SHIT and FUCK perfectly valid 20-bit integers 01:33:18 actually that fits well with unicode 01:34:30 hmm, well if you don't count the last plane 01:35:35 in hex most unicode is five digits. in base 32 it would be 4 didigts 01:36:37 oren: allow ` and a as the first digit and you will be fine 01:36:56 yeah that would work 01:45:29 But also some other codes are not valid Unicode characters, such as surrogates and 0xFFFE and 0xFFFF (although you can still represent them in UTF-8 anyways if you want to) 01:48:13 zzo38: U+FFFE/FFFF is a "noncharacter" and it is fully valid. 01:49:20 It isn't a character though. It can be encoded with UTF-16 but you can't detect the byte order properly with that 01:49:22 i think some programs use FFFE to detect byte order? so while you can embed them into files they break things in some encodings 01:49:29 Also some other program don't accept it 01:49:53 zzo38: they are special in one kind but ultimately valid. 01:50:23 XML and RDF cannot use it either, and you should avoid it for portable Unicode data 01:50:53 "Noncharacters are in a sense a kind of private-use character, because they are reserved for internal (private) use. However, that internal use is intended as a "super" private use, not normally interchanged with other users. Their allocation status in Unicode differs from that of ordinary private-use characters. They are considered unassigned to any abstract character, and they share the ... 01:50:59 ... General_Category value Cn (Unassigned) with unassigned reserved code points in the standard. In this sense they are "less a character" than most characters in Unicode, and the moniker "noncharacter" seemed appropriate to the UTC to express that unique aspect of their identity." 01:51:05 mauris_: only the first occurrence will be affected, so a redundant BOM will be sufficient. 01:51:29 zzo38: yup, I just want to say that they are not "invalid" in normal sense; they are less usable than others, obviously. 01:52:40 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:52:42 Yes, it is a kind of "very private", I suppose 01:56:09 In portable data you should not use surrogates either (except as proper pairs in UTF-16 data), since if a program convert UTF-8 to UTF-16 then it will cause problems! 01:59:06 Some program that use RDF might expect all ASCII, but even then if the implementation is to be complete, the RDF Turtle parser still has to for example to be able to tell if two nodes are he same even if one time a character is mentioned with \u and other time with the canonical UTF-8 representation. 01:59:08 the BOM in Machine-32 would be A_S_ 02:01:22 FFFF would be A___ and FFFE would be A__^ 02:13:55 wait, couldn't you use FFFE to switch byte orders in the middle of a utf16 string? 02:15:46 Not in normal UTF-16; semantically it's basically a zero-width non breaking space in the middle of a string. 02:15:58 I think it would depend on the implementation; normally you can't! 02:27:02 Is The Elements of Computing Systems a good book? 02:28:02 I don't know? 02:39:13 -!- variable has joined. 02:51:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sheesh, another reboot). 02:51:33 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:04:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:07:17 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:07:46 -!- variable has joined. 03:15:09 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:20:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:21:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:23:24 "The result of this elaborate translation process, known as compilation, will be yet another text file, containing machine-level code" 03:24:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 03:28:06 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:31:28 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 03:31:59 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Client Quit). 03:55:23 -!- paul2520 has joined. 04:06:35 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 04:15:08 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 04:29:32 FUCK. how do I make mod_rewrite do something, anything?Q?!? 04:30:06 RewriteRule "^foo$" "index.html" 04:30:13 doesn't do jack shit 04:31:22 find a goat 04:31:25 make sure it's a virgin 04:31:29 do the usual stuff 04:31:48 read the binary code in the blood and translate that as a brainfuck program 04:31:55 execute the brainfuck program 04:32:11 add the RewriteBlackMagic "key" directive, where "key" is repalced by the output of the brainfuck program 04:32:42 what if the program never terminates 04:33:00 oren: ^foo$ without quotes 04:35:30 Ok I changed that. http://www.orenwatson.be/foo still 404s 04:38:03 is mod_rewrite enabled? what's in your .htaccess? 04:38:48 I don't have .htaccess. 04:39:00 I just have apache2.conf 04:39:13 k 04:40:29 http://www.orenwatson.be/partialconf 04:40:38 the rest is comments 04:41:45 is apache trying to load a file named index.html ? 04:41:49 idk 04:42:02 http://www.orenwatson.be/foo 04:42:02 AllowOverride All 04:42:13 well ok you don't need it 04:42:36 sry just trying 04:42:59 doesn't seem to have changed anythign 04:43:05 hmmm 04:56:01 FUCK why does it suddenly work?!?! 04:56:24 whoever wrote the docs for this stuff is an ass 05:17:57 Ok so essentially: the thing that the regex tries to match is the part of the FILENAME (WTF) after the directory tag's direcotry. 05:18:26 so ^foo$ won't work. it has to be ^html/foo$ 05:19:21 becasue the directory is /var/www and the file is in /var/www/html 05:19:42 even hough html isn't in the url... 05:19:52 AUGHH 05:20:40 makes so much sense 05:20:48 at least now I can autogenerate html versions of plaintext files instead of duplicating everything 05:20:49 WTF is going on with firefox right now 05:23:27 when in doubt pkill -9 plugin-container; pkill -9 firefox; 05:23:49 pkill -9 pulseaudio; pkill -9 blueman 05:24:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:25:30 oh, he was using the web irc thing. whoops 05:30:46 -!- grotewold has joined. 05:30:51 hi 05:44:18 < Sgeo> nortti, are translated versions out? ← didn't seem so 05:44:42 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:45:16 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:05:11 Is there a better procedure for viewing ansi-escaped files than telnetting in and GET /file.ans ? 06:09:32 cat? 06:10:23 I guess it may depend on your terminal 06:12:34 oh, never mind, you can use less -R, I already documented that 06:16:54 -!- mauris_ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:17:53 -!- mauris_ has joined. 06:33:40 -!- mauris_ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 06:34:26 -!- mauris_ has joined. 06:39:45 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 06:40:02 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Client Quit). 07:48:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 07:57:04 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:17:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:30:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:47:32 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kslkgh * New user account 09:18:43 -!- vodkode has joined. 09:43:40 -!- zadock has joined. 09:56:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:08:51 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:09:19 -!- boily has joined. 10:09:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 10:12:00 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:42:14 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:01:55 [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43823&oldid=43798 * Kslkgh * (+50) 11:07:21 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43824&oldid=43822 * Kslkgh * (+39) added snowman hello world example 11:18:07 [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43825&oldid=43823 * Kslkgh * (+929) 11:24:36 [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43826&oldid=43825 * Kslkgh * (+3032) 11:26:01 [wiki] [[Snowman]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43827&oldid=43826 * Kslkgh * (-3629) 11:30:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: THUNDER CHICKEN). 11:34:33 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:35:18 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:36:55 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:41:44 -!- lemurian has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:42:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:48:16 -!- stalem has joined. 11:56:46 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43828&oldid=43796 * 107.1.152.193 * (+14) Added Hello++ 12:12:42 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:12:44 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 12:12:49 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 12:22:36 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:33:15 that;s weird 12:34:10 if you talk to apache and say GET /cp437 with no 1.1 at the end, it ouputs only the file with no http header 12:48:04 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:54:45 That's good old HTTP 0.9. 12:55:04 http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html 12:56:30 Ah. cool. 12:57:17 that makes it easy to dump to a file. 12:57:38 The original HTTP/1.1 RFCs -- like https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616 -- had 0.9 support as "expected". 12:58:23 Of course that was in 1996. 12:59:03 The current one has removed that bit. 12:59:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:59:36 i think the ability to nc www.orenwatson.be 80 <<<$'GET /cp437' >cp437 is a good thing 13:00:35 I stil don' 13:01:15 t really understand mod_rewrite but at least I got the autohtmlification working 13:02:41 I have only the file cp437.txt on my server. Asking for a file with no extension gives you a txt if it exists. asking for the same file with .htm gives you a htmlified version 13:04:59 (unless the same filename with .htm actually exists, in which case I had converted it manually) 13:07:27 a list of s/regex/something 13:07:44 +/ replacements that are repeated until no match is turing complete 13:08:46 but can just one s/regex/something/ (repeated until no longer matches) simulate a turing machine? I thought about rule-110, but I can only condense it down to two replacement rules 13:09:39 (either one for 1 and one for 0, or one for both using some funny encoding and one for clenup) 13:12:14 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:12:59 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 13:18:01 Is that allowing for backrefs in the 'something'? 13:18:09 yea 13:20:32 I wouldn't be surprised if it could, but that's just a hunch. What do your existing rules look like? 13:23:48 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:24:49 [wiki] [[LindenMASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43829&oldid=43818 * Vioz- * (+3) /* Commands */ 13:25:17 -!- nycs has joined. 13:26:29 [wiki] [[LindenMASM]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43830&oldid=43829 * Vioz- * (+0) 13:28:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:45:07 -!- MDude has joined. 13:46:13 [wiki] [[Stuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43831&oldid=43812 * Vioz- * (+1) /* Examples */ 13:54:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:54:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:54:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:55:45 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 14:01:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:12:57 fizzie: turns out the method I tried was faulty, it didn't actually simulate a rule-110 14:16:09 ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~:^):^ 14:16:10 ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^ :^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^ ^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^ :^^^:^^^:^^^^^::^^^^^:^::::^^^^^:::^^^^^:::: ^^:^^^:^^^:::^:^^:::^^^:::^^:::^::^^:::^:::: ^^^^:^^^:^::^^^^^::^^:^::^^^::^^:^^^::^^:::^ :::^^^:^^^:^^:::^:^^^^^:^^:^:^^^^^:^:^^^::^^ ::^^:^^^: ...too much output! 14:16:29 what doth that do? 14:16:39 rule 110 hth 14:17:19 best viewed in a terminal that's narrow enough to wrap on the spaces 14:25:58 nortti: btw you know the universality proof for r110 requires an infinite cell setup, right? 14:26:38 oh 14:27:14 hm 14:28:19 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:29:16 the setup is mostly a leftwards and a rightwards repeating part, though 14:30:03 which _could_ be handled with regexes, although doesn't make it easier to condense down to 1... 14:34:06 -!- stalem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:34:25 /(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)([01]*)/\2\1\3\4\7\5\6\8\9\6/ looks borderline passable for a BCT. With a [program]-[data string] encoding. 14:36:33 `run perl -e '$s = "00111-101"; while (1) { print "$s\n"; $s =~ s/(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)([01]*)/\2\1\3\4\7\5\6\8\9\6/; }' | head 14:36:34 00111-101 \ 01110-01 \ 11100-1 \ 10011-11 \ 01110-110 \ 11100-10 \ 10011-101 \ 01110-1010 \ 11100-010 \ 10011-0101 14:37:01 Hmm. 14:37:16 That matched the "Example" run at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag up to the second-last line. 14:38:20 I think the example is just wrong. It says that for command 11, data 010 the next data is again 010 and not 0101. 14:39:26 um i think it's right 14:40:07 Oh, I'm missing the copy condition completely. 14:40:12 Yeah, will need to add that. 14:41:00 Well, that should be easy. 14:44:05 Repeating s/(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(0)([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(1)([01]*)/$2$1$3$4$7$5$6$8$9$10$13$11$12$14$15$16$12/; in Perl seems to exactly match the example. 14:44:18 Had to switch from \n to $n due to going double digits. 14:45:41 `run perl -e '$s = "00111-101"; while (1) { $s =~ /-([01]*)/; print "$1\n"; $s =~ s/(0)([01]*)(-)[01]([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(0)([01]*)|(1)([01])([01]*)(-)(1)([01]*)/$2$1$3$4$7$5$6$8$9$10$13$11$12$14$15$16$12/; }' | head -n 12 # "proof" 14:45:42 101 \ 01 \ 1 \ 11 \ 110 \ 10 \ 101 \ 1010 \ 010 \ 010 \ 010 \ 10 14:46:35 * nortti applauds 14:50:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:01:59 -!- `^_^ has joined. 15:04:05 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:11:05 -!- YokeOfIdea has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:31:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:33:53 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:58:50 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dom111 * New user account 15:59:49 -!- dom111 has joined. 16:00:20 `relcome dom111 16:00:35 ​dom111: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 16:01:12 hey there, just snooping mostly :) 16:01:45 snooping is good 16:02:00 oerjan: whoa, you described me as nosy once 16:02:13 except when shachaf is doing it hth 16:02:24 tdnhib 16:03:19 hah, I guess I should hope I don't go too far then! 16:04:20 It's ok, I'm not snooping on people, just wanted to see what goes on here really! I've checked out the wiki a lot lately and wondered if I could contribute somehow. 16:04:25 the described nosiness has its benefits 16:04:43 dom111: Most of what goes on here isn't related to esoteric languages. 16:05:04 Just general snooping? 16:05:08 :) 16:05:58 I see, I didn't properly look at the channel name to be honest ... 16:06:39 dom111: E.g. http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/d0/b0/14/d0b014bd22206e0cd62de10b493354ae.jpg 16:07:05 let's not get carried away, it's _supposed_ to be about esolangs. 16:07:36 So a bit more like this: http://i.imgur.com/DwR4aOE.png 16:07:37 ? 16:07:58 dom111: that looks like regular snoopy 16:08:02 my link was general snoopy 16:08:25 i blame the red baron 16:08:29 bad-dum-tssh 16:08:51 oerjan didn't swat me for some reason 16:09:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:09:26 probably because of my headache 16:16:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:17:29 -!- llue has joined. 16:18:20 -!- `^_^ has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:20:30 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:30:52 Hey everyone. 16:31:03 So I'm trying to build this project, and ld is complaining, and I don't know why. 16:31:07 Here's the deets: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8843222 16:31:31 ld says: "/home/tswett/sandwichos/src/kernel.rs:42: undefined reference to `heap'" 16:31:53 Well, "heap" is right there in build/multiboot.o, isn't it? Can't ld see that? 16:34:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 16:38:04 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 39.0.3/20150806001005]). 16:43:50 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 16:46:19 -!- fowl has quit (Quit: zz). 17:04:40 -!- fowl has joined. 17:10:58 does ld not actually look for _heap 17:11:02 or something 17:12:50 tswett: bind == LOCAL for the symbol 'heap' in multiboot.o. 17:13:18 That'll do it. 17:13:26 Thanks. 17:13:30 (I'm not sure if that's the same concept as visibility, though; haven't used readelf much.) 17:14:13 Hm, there's "vis: DEFAULT" too. Maybe it doesn't mean what I thought it meant. 17:15:28 Okay, I guess a symbol needs to be both STB_GLOBAL and STV_DEFAULT in order to be visible. 17:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:41:19 -!- aretecode has joined. 17:41:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:43:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:55:34 -!- J_Arcane_ has joined. 17:56:26 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:56:29 -!- J_Arcane_ has changed nick to J_Arcane. 18:12:05 -!- `^_^ has joined. 18:28:11 -!- stalem has joined. 18:28:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:29:21 anyone here enjoy reading shitty first-time attempts at a proof? :D 18:30:03 a proof proof, in other words? 18:31:02 a proof-reading proof? proof proof. it's starting to lose its meaning 18:31:36 it's the sound a really large inflated floppy baloon makes when you release it 18:31:39 prooooof 18:33:52 but yeah what do you mean by proof proof exactly? :P 18:40:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley_proof hth 18:57:41 heck what do i know i have no education or knowledge in this. for all i know it might not even be called an attempt 18:59:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:00:18 either way i just tried to prove that the only type of quines in resplicate are made of 2's size four or greater 19:00:38 -!- _256Q has joined. 19:00:38 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 19:00:38 -!- _256Q has joined. 19:02:35 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 19:03:43 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:06:01 -!- _256Q has joined. 19:09:43 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:10:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:10:16 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:10:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:21:27 -!- stalem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:32:50 -!- mauris_ has joined. 19:35:32 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:49:46 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:51:04 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:00:43 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:03:36 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:03:54 -!- mauris__ has joined. 20:06:17 -!- mauris_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:08:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:43:40 -!- dom111 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:04:58 -!- Ox0dea has joined. 21:05:09 Which is the optimal compression algorithm for Whitespace programs? 21:06:08 Printing them out is optimal, but I haven't figured out how to undo it. 21:08:20 I'm sure you can do better than printing them out. 21:09:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:15 shachaf: How do I create a file of negative size? 21:15:31 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:28:24 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:45:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:55:00 -!- `^_^ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:00:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:05:54 What filesystem supports files with negative sizes? 22:06:22 what 22:07:35 shachaf suggested that printing them out is not the most effective way to compress Whitespace programs. 22:07:59 _not_ printing them out would seem even more efficient hth 22:08:09 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:08:33 oerjan: How is that a form of compression, though? 22:08:40 compress: Whitespaceprogram -> {0} 22:08:52 Right, how to do better than that? 22:08:58 Ox0dea: it compresses to 0 bytes hth 22:09:02 Indeed! 22:12:32 -!- dorei has joined. 22:16:52 hm curious internet failure 22:17:16 it says i have no internet connection. my browser agrees, but not putty. 22:17:49 oerjan: It looks like your connection is down from here as well. 22:18:35 spoooooky 22:18:49 (how would you know?) 22:20:04 oerjan: Well, I would expect to see messages from you if your connection was good. 22:20:16 ok 22:20:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:30:38 at least i have several already open tabs 22:35:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:36:43 @tell stalem either way i just tried to prove that the only type of quines in resplicate are made of 2's size four or greater <-- i find that unlikely, the language is turing-complete. 22:36:44 Consider it noted. 22:43:06 of course this had to happen just after midnight, there might not even be anyone noticing it 22:43:50 that's paid to, that is 22:48:52 -!- boily has joined. 22:49:07 boilhey 22:51:21 hellérjan 22:56:03 goodevenign 23:00:25 A file could be of negative actual size on a compressed file system if its existence causes the compression efficiency to icrease 23:00:48 fiendish 23:01:06 I don't know how possible that is though 23:01:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:01:31 hais523 23:01:52 hi oren 23:09:40 idea for a stream cipher: compress the input and a predetermined other data using the same dictionary-based compression. Then decompress the input using the dictionary of the predetermined data. 23:10:02 the other side does the reverse 23:11:11 this isn't a very good cipher.... 23:12:01 it only screws up the data when it is compressible 23:12:10 Converting Whitespace programs to PNGs actually compresses them better than xz. 23:12:14 Not gzip or bzip2, though. 23:12:35 try a naive run length encoding 23:12:49 oren: It wouldn't be all that great, I don't think. 23:13:30 try RLE compounded by gzip,xz, etc. 23:14:11 eg. replace 10 spaces by '10s' replace 2 tabs by '2t' 23:15:48 oren: Yes, alternation happens way too frequently for it to be useful. 23:16:11 what about something like 3st 23:18:36 hmm actually, what about first converting to binary with space with 1 and tab with 0 23:18:37 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:22:53 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:23:24 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:24:16 oren: Did you mean ternary? 23:24:22 oren: helloren. I think you found the Elusive Porthello of Ais523. thanks. 23:24:22 -!- llue has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 23:24:23 Translating " \t\n" to "012" on my biggest Whitespace program results in a ternary number of 1749 bits, which rounds to 219 bytes, which is indeed better than gzip or bzip2. 23:24:24 oren: my advice would be to take the individual Whitespace commands (rather than space/tab/newline) and form a Huffman dictionary out of them 23:24:25 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 23:41:03 Scandinavian tech support: http://i.imgur.com/i9ZBC.jpg 23:41:14 (I believe this is Swedish. olsner?) 23:41:26 It looks Swedish to me. 23:42:02 Andreas Hedlund has gone through (as in, thought of/tested) all possible ("thinkable") software problems. 23:44:24 Now he's deduced it's a hardware issue, to paraphrase a bit. I don't think "Modermodemet" is anything at all. But apparently it's the heart of the hard disk, and it's not working. 23:45:03 mivrocontroller maybe? 23:45:09 It's not that. 23:45:14 the Modem's Mother? 23:45:15 It's, like, "mothermodem". 23:45:30 Moderkort(et) would be a valid term for a motherboard. 23:45:44 Not sure if it's applicable to the controller board of a disk drive in Swedish, maybe. 23:45:57 tmsyk... 23:47:20 I don't see a hard disk anywhere in the photo, anyway. 2015-08-20: 00:11:31 Ox0dea: printing them out doesn't compress newlines very well at all hth 00:11:44 that guy looks immensely scandinavian 00:17:38 Phellontom_Hoover. what makes you say that? 00:21:04 maybe his bag of bones hands? 00:22:23 shachaf: You're right, but A4 paper can fit 842 lines at 1pt. 00:22:46 My largest Whitespace program only contains 211 lines. 00:23:19 hey, is there some way to download the entire wiki? 00:23:49 mauris__: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Exporting_all_the_files_of_a_wiki 00:24:55 also his baggy eyes 00:26:08 although baggy eyes are also common among slavs 00:26:08 fizzie, whence the 'u' in 'mjukvaruproblem'? 00:27:58 -!- mauris__ has changed nick to mauris. 00:28:04 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 00:28:04 -!- mauris has joined. 00:30:07 helooodl. you're Swedish? 00:30:57 in general though that dude is pale and thin and looks like he's never had a tan. so he has to be from somewhere up north... 00:32:10 oerjan: as an Up North person, do you corroborate oren's assertion? 00:33:01 fizzie: I'd ask you, but I fear you're an Even More Up North Like Really North You Wouldn't Believe How Far North person. 00:35:01 boily: jag har b?rjat l?ra mig lite svenska, men inte v?ldigt allvarligt. 00:36:15 it's a pretty language! i like the rhythm. i have absolutely no connection to sweden 00:36:15 you ain't Swedish! your question marks lack umlauts! 00:39:05 AIUI, oerjan was north of me even back when I was living in Finland. 00:39:18 ais523: i guess to make a really good Huffman dictionary, you need a large corpus of which commands are most common 00:39:53 mauris: yes 00:40:00 mauris: That doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd need a heuristic for, though. 00:40:02 but even a reasonably bad Huffman dictionary is still often decent 00:40:09 or you can use some sort of adaptive huffman 00:42:29 haha, I love the edit summary on http://esolangs.org/wiki/International_Esolang_Design_Competition 00:42:35 can we keep this page around just for the history 00:42:53 i originally wanted to do something like this for gs2. currently all commands are a byte, but i was planning on like, having some of them be 5 bits, some 10, etc 00:43:12 however i didn't feel comfortable just making up numbers for the frequencies :( 00:43:24 plus huffman codes don't look very easily extendable? 00:48:35 mauris: I don't speak Swedish all that much/well. But I think the special noun forms (including last-vowel elision/mutation) used as "modifiers" are probably remnants from something or other. At any rate, it happens. vara -> varuhus, hälsa -> hälsofarlighet. 00:48:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:49:33 fizzie, whence the 'u' in 'mjukvaruproblem'? <-- swedish seems to do that when forming compounds with -a nouns (originally weak feminine ones), i think it's from the old norse genitive, see e.g. the more well-preserved icelandic declension https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vara#Noun_5 00:51:34 oerjan: as an Up North person, do you corroborate oren's assertion? <-- only for geeks i think, everyone else seems to have a tan these days. in my youth i occasionally tried, sometimes with catastrophic results. 00:51:45 oerjan: Sometimes they drop the vowel. ficka -> ficktjuv. 00:52:11 Hmm.. the furthest north place I've been in Canada is RouynNoranda which has the same latitude as, like, Paris. Europe's climate is bullshit 00:55:11 oren: AAAAAAAAAAAH! 00:55:19 what the fungot where you doing in Rouin? 00:55:19 boily: no wonder you're a bored college guy, you know 00:55:28 s/in/yn/ 00:55:37 fungot: I don't go to college anymore. I got bored. 00:55:37 boily: last time i checked lisppaste is at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ results/ fnord this year and i might 00:55:47 * oerjan cannot look at the word "varuhus" without thinking about Karl-Bertil Jonssons julafton 00:56:18 boily: I was wtching fireworks wiht my dad and my uncle? 00:57:05 I don't really remember the reasons we were there 00:57:23 other than my dad grew up there 00:57:23 ("Jag har skänkt lite glädje åt dessa olyckliga som inte äger något varuhus") 00:57:53 oren: good reason. so you're half Québécois? 00:58:07 http://goo.gl/maps/X8BWi is probably about the northest I've been. I don't recall where exactly we went on another Lapland trip. 00:58:14 more like a quarter. 00:58:34 my grandma is from Enlgand 00:59:01 fizzie: i suppose i have no real idea why norwegian sometimes inserts an -s- (old genitive too) and sometimes doesn't. 00:59:13 or an -e- 00:59:41 s/lg/gl/ 01:00:05 a quarterbécois, then. 01:00:09 * oerjan laughs and points at oren from the gulf stream 01:00:10 lol 01:01:27 have you guys ever used lex/yacc? 01:01:31 i've got a quick question 01:01:38 I have 01:02:03 can you halp meh? \o/ 01:02:04 | 01:02:04 >\ 01:02:07 * oerjan has looked at it, but possibly not used... 01:02:12 izabera: I've used it 01:02:16 and know quite a lot about yacc 01:02:17 \o/ 01:02:18 | 01:02:18 /`\ 01:02:30 ah yes ais523 is writing a replacement 01:02:45 hmm myndzi has a bigger dick in my font 01:02:55 ... 01:03:06 i'd rather not receive dicks from myndzi anymore -_- 01:03:16 ok i need help to parse something like this 01:03:21 "this is a string" 01:03:35 izabera: with escape syntax and all that? 01:03:37 "inside strings we can embed brackets( )" 01:03:41 wait 01:03:56 (do you call those parentheses or brackets?) 01:04:01 oh, I see 01:04:03 (parentheses? ok) 01:04:10 ( and ) are normally called parentheses, to distinguish them from [ and ] 01:04:16 (ok) 01:04:25 although all of ( ) [ ] can probably legitimately be called brackets 01:04:38 you normally see "parenthesis" or "paren" among programmers for disambiguation purposes 01:04:47 (with "square bracket" used for [ and ] if it needs to be unambiguous) 01:04:53 I call () round brackets, [] square brackets, {} curly brackets 01:04:56 ok ok 01:05:04 "the part inside these (parentheses) is a different quoting context" 01:05:20 so i can have something like this: "foo ( "bar baz" ) bat" 01:05:45 and inside parenteses you can have other nested parentheses 01:05:52 so you have to match "foo( )bar( )baz" 01:05:53 i hope you understand 01:06:06 so start by mtahing "foo" 01:06:15 then match "bar( 01:06:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DRAFT CHICKEN). 01:06:25 and )baz" 01:06:34 and )xyzzy( 01:06:40 each as separate tokens 01:06:44 it's kinda hard, i'm a beginner 01:07:03 ah it looks like $( ) in shell script 01:07:19 not sure if you know what i mean 01:07:58 so parse "foo( )baz" as a STRING_ENDING_IN_ROUND_BRACKET followed by a STRING_STARTING_WITH_ROUND_BRACKET 01:08:20 WHY_ARE_WE_SCREAMING 01:08:31 oh, I actually like oren's solution 01:08:31 <.< 01:08:47 also because terminals in yacc are uppercase by convention 01:08:49 TOKEN_NAMES_ARE_IN_SNAKE_CPAS_BY_CONVENTION 01:09:54 ok lemme try and i'll report back my progresses 01:09:57 thank you for the hint 01:19:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:20:33 izabera: Are you trying to use regular expressions to parse a recursive grammar? 01:21:17 i'm trying to parse a recursive grammar, yes 01:21:58 i know the limitations of regex 01:22:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:24:28 that's why the "foo( "bar" )baz" each have to be separate tokens 01:27:45 Ox0dea: we're trying to parse a recursive grammar using tools that are intended to parse recursive grammars 01:28:01 the problem is that it's one that doesn't have a simple lexing/parsing divide 01:29:28 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 01:30:09 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:33:11 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:39:23 -!- dorei has quit. 01:40:09 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:40:31 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:49:01 oerjan, wow i see you found my SO question 01:49:43 http://stackoverflow.com/q/32106435 ? 01:49:48 that was SO difficult 01:50:21 that's the one 01:51:02 i should go hack at that some more. maybe i can bring out the -XTypeSynonymInstances or something terrifying like that 01:53:19 wowowow, -XNewtypeDeriving?? 01:56:56 -!- bb010g has joined. 02:00:03 you mean GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving 02:00:38 yes, this is even more magic 02:01:07 so now i just try to list every typeclass that exists on earth in this `deriving (...)`?? 02:01:18 heh 02:02:17 -!- mauris_ has joined. 02:02:30 GenerousNewtypeDeriving 02:06:03 shachaf: i think mauris's SO picture beats us both in lifelikeness hth 02:06:06 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:07:39 -!- mauris_ has changed nick to mauris. 02:07:47 -!- mauris has quit (Changing host). 02:07:47 -!- mauris has joined. 02:07:48 -!- izabera has changed nick to Mode. 02:07:56 Ok I changed my cgi script to ouput a mtime so that things will be cached 02:08:00 -!- Mode has changed nick to izabera. 02:08:53 deriving (Bounded, Enum, Eq, Foldable, Fractional, Functor, Integral, Monoid, Num, Ord, Read, Real, RealFrac, Show, Traversable) 02:10:11 this is silly. i want to derive (*) 02:10:12 don't forget Applicative hth 02:10:40 sadly i need to write that one myself because it has fancy constraints 02:11:00 shachaf: mauris thinks Monoid is fancy 02:11:32 are options for "deriving" pluggable? or do they have to be built into the compiler? 02:11:47 mauris: monoids are so easy hth 02:11:58 ais523: they're pluggable with the new DeriveAnyClass extension 02:12:04 ...Sort of. 02:12:12 You're pretty limited in the instances you can derive with that. 02:12:38 `? monoids 02:12:40 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 02:12:46 so easy 02:12:47 `? monoid 02:12:48 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 02:12:51 shachaf, what is hard 02:13:48 math. let's go shopping. 02:14:07 * oerjan thinks shopping is harder 02:14:14 shopping is pretty hard 02:14:17 but so is math 02:14:22 Shopping is hard. Let's go mathing. 02:15:29 niiiice 02:15:30 edwardk: do you have anything equivalent to newtype Const3 a b c = Const3 { getConst3 :: a } , twh 02:15:38 Const3 is reducing basically every instance to monoids 02:15:40 it is so easy 02:15:54 (such as Category!!) 02:16:09 oh Category too? 02:16:16 make sense i guess 02:16:21 instance Monoid m => Category (Const3 m) where 02:16:22 id = Const3 mempty 02:16:22 Const3 x . Const3 y = Const3 (mappend x y) 02:16:22 *makes 02:16:52 what is hard though: checking applicative laws 02:16:54 That's not the "category with one object" thing, though. 02:18:04 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 02:18:06 hmmm, i guess it isn't 02:18:07 shachaf: well it's equivalent to it, maybe 02:18:19 if you take the skeleton 02:18:20 oerjan: well, it has a whole bunch of different objects 02:18:20 -!- staffehn has joined. 02:18:44 oh, equivalent in that sense 02:19:13 sounds plausible 02:19:21 what are the arrows between two different objects? 02:19:23 oerjan: Taking skeletons is illegal in many jurisdictions. 02:19:32 mauris: you have Applicative and Category, so you should have Arrow hth 02:20:41 yes i'm looking for more (k -> k -> *) -> Constraint thingies, arrow sounds easy 02:21:06 oh hm i'm wondering... 02:21:29 :k Kleisli (Writer Int) 02:21:31 * -> * -> * 02:22:17 hm wait no 02:22:20 that's silly 02:26:29 hm my search seems to have hit one of zzo38's haskell packages 02:26:45 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 02:26:57 it's too late to back out now 02:27:00 -!- staffehn has joined. 02:27:42 oerjan: nice, which 02:27:49 no it isn't, also it doesn't seem relevant. https://hackage.haskell.org/package/monoidplus-0.1.0.1/docs/Data-Monoid-Plus.html 02:28:54 -!- Ox0dea has left ("WeeChat 1.2"). 02:43:54 Profunctor is one thing 02:49:03 also Bifunctor, then 02:49:33 they're phantom parameters, so they're both co- and contravariant all ways 03:12:24 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:01:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:01:53 hmm, if something is both covariant and contravariant 04:01:57 doesn't that imply it isn't used at all? 04:02:02 (sort of the opposite of being invariant) 04:06:24 Yes. 04:09:16 -!- Froox has joined. 04:12:41 How can you make ANSI music with xterm? 04:12:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:31:44 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:34:25 -!- vodkode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:34:50 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:50:29 -!- vodkode has joined. 05:30:45 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:31:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 05:31:17 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:58:14 I just bought a laptap based primarily on it being the only one I could find over 2Kg 06:02:42 * Sgeo_ built an ALU :) (not IRL. Using a hardware description language) 06:02:54 Also it conforms to specs someone else made 06:02:54 Sgeo_: Niiice! 06:04:55 2.7 kilograms of laptop. because fuck you, macbook-air-using weaklings 06:05:58 Just noticed a typo. Tests did not catch it. 06:21:38 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 06:22:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:31:34 which operations does you alu support? 06:34:02 & and +, with some modifiers on input and output that allow for -, |, and some other stuff 06:35:09 So, it's &, +, with options to zero out the inputs, bitwise negate the inputs and bitwise negate the output. 06:35:37 my bf interpreter returns 0 on EOF, what's wrong with this line? +[>,----------]+[<++++++++++.] 06:35:43 i want to read a line and reverse it 06:36:33 izabera: you're running off the end of the tape going leftwards 06:36:43 oren, http://nand2tetris-questions-and-answers-forum.32033.n3.nabble.com/file/n95834/alu_worksheet.pdf 06:36:54 !bf >,[>,]<[.<]!reverse 06:36:54 No output. 06:36:55 ais523: aaah dammit, i see 06:36:57 err 06:36:59 ^bf >,[>,]<[.<]!reverse 06:37:00 esrever 06:37:08 yes but that doesn't stop on \n <.< 06:37:21 I know, but the important thing is to look at where the < signs are 06:37:27 and the > signs 06:37:38 you need the > at the start to give you an extra 0 at the leftmost end to stop on 06:37:42 fixed it ----------[>,----------]+[<++++++++++.] 06:37:44 and you need the < at the end of the loop 06:38:06 otherwise you're outputting a NUL just before the program ends 06:38:09 which looks a bit messy 06:38:13 oh shit 06:38:17 you're right 06:38:22 http://nand2tetris-questions-and-answers-forum.32033.n3.nabble.com/Is-the-method-used-to-make-the-Hack-ALU-an-exception-or-the-rule-td4026896.html 06:39:18 thanks ais523 :D 06:39:36 Sgeo_: that's quite some URL 06:39:54 hmm, that seems to be a good approach iirc that's how the 6502 ALU works (with the ALU control bits coming from some logic on the opcode) 06:40:58 http://www.5z8.info/how-to-build-a-bomb_a2k7om_myspace-of-sex hth 06:41:04 It does mean that there's redundant functions, e.g. two ways to get x out (x&-1 and x+0) 06:42:03 shachaf: do you have that URL just saved up as an example of an amusing URL? 06:42:10 (unsurprisingly I am not following it) 06:42:19 No, I got it from http://www.shadyurl.com/ 06:42:20 Sgeo_: I doubt that can be helped, really 06:42:29 It's a short link version of Sgeo_'s URL. 06:42:36 shachaf: ah right, you have an amusing URL generator memorized instead 06:42:49 Sgeo_'s is more informative, though, I think 06:42:52 I have the existence of one memorized. 06:43:17 @google amusing url generator 06:43:18 http://www.shadyurl.com/ 06:43:18 -!- Flonk has joined. 06:43:18 Title: ShadyURL - Don't just shorten your URL, make it suspicious and frightening. 06:43:36 cool. I should do all my bookmarks with that 06:43:59 in this case, the URL is indeed shorter 06:45:20 http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00WBXG6ZM 06:46:13 did you mean http://www.5z8.info/-php-deactivate_phishing_filter-48-_b9d7ac_nazi 06:46:52 yeah 06:47:11 the previous shady URL was better 06:47:18 that one just doesn't make any sense 06:47:18 anyway do you like the look of that laptop? 06:47:27 (also, is the bit before and after the hex string actually relevant?) 06:47:41 it seems to me that such a site would be better if the hex string wasn't part of it 06:48:06 the look of the laptop is the same as any thinkpad... 06:49:19 ais523: That reminds me of when I was wondering what the best way to convert some data (say, a private key, maybe a few thousand bits?) to a form which can be memorized relatively easily. 06:49:30 it isn't the same as this flimsy thing: 06:49:32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#/media/File:Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Ultrabook.jpg 06:49:43 Or even just a secret key, 128 or 256 bits, would be a good start. 06:50:33 shachaf: well, the people who have memorization world records start by having a code for the individual things you're encoding (say nybbles in this case), mapping them onto reasonably general concepts that are distinct and memorizing that mapping 06:51:28 and then they form a story which uses the concepts in the sequence that they're trying to memorize, preferably an amusing one because that's more memorable 06:51:56 that's the just a basic method of loci... 06:52:01 s/the// 06:52:17 izabera: I'm not claiming that this is some big secret or whatever 06:52:35 i used to be decent at this a few years ago... 06:53:01 I'd rather transform the data into a form which is easy for people to remember than transform people into a form which is well-suited for memorizing data. 06:53:04 in 2009 i had a national record for multiple blindfolded rubiks cube solving 06:53:56 oh look my memory is so good that i had to check and it was 2010 06:54:12 (that doesn't count) 06:55:10 I, um, was top 8 in the UK at the Pokémon video game championships in 2011? that's some sort of achievement 06:55:29 impressive :P 06:56:02 I think doing multiple rubik's cubes blindfolded is more impressive 06:56:19 there's a bunch of memorization and strategy in both, but in Pokémon, what you have to memorize doesn't change much from game to game 06:56:32 (other than things you've observed the opponent do earlier in the game, and I often forget that…) 06:57:44 it was only 5 cubes and it took me 43 *minutes* 06:57:54 by today's standards it's crap 07:03:25 but at least they ended up in the right arrangement? 07:03:34 I doubt I'd be able to keep track of just the one cube while blindfolded 07:04:00 oh it's not that hard, can you solve it? 07:04:17 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:04:35 sort-of 07:04:38 ok 07:04:41 there are a couple of situations that I keep forgetting the solutions to 07:04:47 (one of which is fairly common) 07:04:48 do you know the t perm? 07:04:55 but I used to be able to solve it pretty reliably 07:05:08 I don't know what "t perm" stands for / refers to, it's possible I know the concept but not by that name 07:05:29 it's just a permutation that swaps two edges and two corners 07:06:02 oh, in that case I remember seeing it but don't use it 07:06:06 ok 07:06:17 you know the notation? 07:06:28 RLFBUD? 07:06:31 I've seen multiple notations but they all use much the same language 07:06:37 RLFBUD is one I know, yes 07:06:41 ok great 07:06:56 the t perm swaps the RU and LU edges, and the RFU and RBU corners 07:07:15 you can use that to solve the whole cube 07:07:45 oh, and that's why it took 43 minutes :-) 07:07:49 lol 07:07:54 no solving is relatively fast 07:07:57 memorization is slow 07:08:40 e.g.: let's solve an edge 3-cycle 07:08:56 BL -> DR -> FU -> BL 07:09:06 just random edges, doesn't matter 07:09:09 do you do edges first, corners first, or a bit of both? 07:09:24 edges first, eventual parity, corners 07:09:49 oh rigt 07:10:20 my "current" (as in last time I solved it) approach to parity is "try to solve most of the cube, if the parity is wrong do a sequence to fix it", but that's slow 07:10:36 :) 07:11:05 anyway, to solve that cycle: move BL to UL without messing with UR, URF or URB (this is called a setup move), then tperm, then invert the setup move 07:11:18 then setup DR to UL, tperm, anti-setup 07:11:27 then setup FU to UL, tperm, anti-setup 07:11:28 right, I use setup moves for top corners 07:11:31 etc... 07:11:35 but then my technique is from an old guide 07:11:43 which does top edges, top corners, middle edges, bottom corners, bottom edges 07:11:58 that's not a good method for blindfolded solving 07:12:11 indeed 07:12:13 What's parity? 07:12:17 it's not a good method for any other purpose eitehr 07:12:18 Something like two edges being flipped? 07:12:24 other than feeling like you're making progress 07:12:42 no, it's when you have both an odd permutation in edges and corners 07:12:42 shachaf: well flipping two edges has patterns that fix it, but it's quite long 07:12:53 i mean, both edges and corners have an odd permutation 07:13:17 I think I solved it top corners, top edges, middle edges, bottom corners, bottom edges. 07:13:35 yes but you need to keep track of the state of the cube 07:13:39 Yep. 07:13:46 Not good for blindfolded solving. 07:13:56 blindfolded methods do this by solving one or two pieces at a time and leaving the rest as it is 07:14:11 Right. 07:14:37 To some degree you could use the bottom edge/corner methods for the top edges and corners. 07:14:44 It's just extra work. 07:15:08 well i think most people use the fridrich method... 07:15:25 basically the first two layers are built intuitively, then oll and pll with fast algorithms 07:15:53 oll and pll? 07:15:58 oh sorry 07:16:02 orientation of last layer 07:16:05 permutation of last layer 07:16:18 Ah. 07:16:43 aka "complete the yellow face" and "complete the yellow layer" 07:17:01 It's been probably more than ten years since I last thought about this. 07:17:13 time to start again :) 07:17:52 I remember that I liked how you could use the same method that you use for rotating/flipping top corners/edges for the bottom layer, as long as you did it twice, one of them in reverse. 07:18:42 well yes that's fun but a bit slow <.< 07:22:27 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:32:14 -!- mauris has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:46:53 Oh, "intuitive" has a technical meaning here. 07:48:12 all f2l "algorithms" can be derived easily with a little practice 07:59:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:22:53 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:31:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:44:02 -!- x10A94 has joined. 08:49:30 i derived mine using GAP (http://www.gap-system.org/) ._. 08:50:00 now i can't remember them or find the code 09:00:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:04:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:07:31 -!- atslash has joined. 09:10:20 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:23:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:53:45 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Undergroundmonorail * New user account 10:03:34 that probably isn't a spambot 10:03:45 more of an esoteric transport system 10:07:45 -!- lleu has joined. 10:22:30 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:09 i assume all of you have seen ex machina 10:27:16 suppose you become a billionaire for some reason 10:27:26 and buy this really large house with a huge garden 10:27:39 well that's not even close to ex machina but that's the idea 10:28:00 how do i stop phone companies to provide cell phone coverage on that area? 10:28:32 izabera: well whether you get coverage depends mostly on whether you have line of sight to a cellphone mast 10:28:41 (range also matters but not nearly as much) 10:29:19 so I guess you'd need to figure out which cellphone masts are visible, then find new locations for them that cover the same areas except not your garden 10:29:31 oh 10:29:34 wow 10:29:43 that's easier than i thought 10:29:46 and then somehow convince the people who own the land where the new locations would be to let you build cellphone masts there 10:29:51 izabera: afair it was in the mountains, and the property was huge (wasm"we've been flying over his property for a few hours now"?) 10:30:07 s/wasm/wasn't there a line like... / 10:30:09 alternatively you could build a big metal wall around your garden to block the signals 10:30:15 yeah the helycopter guy said something like that 10:30:34 a big metal wall would ruin the view 10:31:25 well it depends on whether the view you care about is the entire surrounding countryside, or just your garden 10:31:36 if the garden is big enough you wouldn't even really be able to see the wall 10:31:59 that'd mean to live in a prison -_- 10:32:11 a large prison is still a prison 10:32:33 well, are you keeping yourself in, or the world out 10:32:41 it'd probably be you who had the keys to any gates in it 10:32:42 wait, i got it. i could build a wall around everything else 10:33:12 i'd laugh about people being caged 10:34:06 isn't that equivalent? 10:34:18 the wall's in the same place either way :-) 10:34:43 Mmm. Reminds me of Aeon Flux 10:34:46 of course it is physically equivalent but my version is much more satisfying 10:35:01 (not people being caged, I'm still on the "big garden" thread) 10:40:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 10:40:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:45:45 -!- vodkode has left ("Leaving"). 10:50:17 How about satellite phone coverage? 10:50:49 you'd need to block LOS to the satellite, or disable the satellite somehow 10:52:06 Completely unrelated, but might be of interest to some: someone told me the SIGGRAPH 2015 proceedings are available for downloading (without any ACM subscription) for a limited time ("maybe a week") at http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2809654&_sm_au_=iVV25TfRTPr0jbK6 10:54:15 neat 10:54:38 there's such a weird scale of journal publishers 10:55:03 all the way from "outright evil" to "aware they probably shouldn't be that evil but it's a habit right now" to "gives the impression of genuinely trying to do the right thing, just sucks at it" 10:57:39 on a scale from one to Elsevier, where would you put the ACM? 11:00:34 A paper I was involved was just published under SpringerOpen. I don't know where that fits, because it's all open-access, but it's still a part of the Springer conglomerate. 11:00:57 boily: probably somewhere in the middle 11:01:30 (also, I like the way that we both instinctively identified Elsevier as the most evil end of the scale, even if I didn' t say it) 11:01:34 They've got an "open access waiver fund" that covers the open access fees for authors in countries "classified by the World Bank as Low-income economies or Lower-middle-income economies as of September 2014, and which have a 2013 gross domestic product of less than 200 billion US dollars". I guess it's a good thing, but it's still a bit arbitrary. 11:02:24 fizzie: AFAICT the "typical" way for large conglomerates to do open-access is to work out how much people in total are willing to pay to make any given paper open access 11:02:30 then charge that, regardless of the actual cost 11:02:45 I've heard rumours that it's in the thousands of dollars range 11:03:02 It was something with four digits for an IEEE journal. 11:03:07 I didn't pay it. 11:03:18 (ACM actually called some other journals out for doing this and then charging for the open-access stuff as part of a subscription bundle anyway) 11:04:53 I kind of like that SpringerOpen just wants you to apply a CC-Attribution license to your paper instead of signing some custom dozen-page legal thing that does whatever. 11:05:32 well, isn't creative commons' entire purpose to come up with correctly legally worded licenses for some specific common special licensing cases? 11:05:52 not taking advantage of that is basically arrogance, you're claiming that you have better lawyers than creative commons 11:06:39 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 11:06:41 Apparently the SpringerOpen journal "my" paper is in charges $1105 (or EUR 900, or £705) per article. 11:07:27 OK, that's less than I thought but nonetheless ridiculously high 11:07:43 the cost of editing and reformatting is nonzero but not that large 11:08:03 the cost of proofreading and peer review is effectively zero because they make academics do it for no pay 11:08:36 (I remember there was a movement a while back to boycott publishing in the shadier-business-practice journals; IMO that doesn't make sense, the correct thing to do is to boycott peer review for them as they're basically profiting off your unpaid work) 11:09:41 there's always Arxiv... 11:10:53 arxiv is a good solution to some of these problems 11:11:11 (it's only allowed the pre-peer-review versions of the papers, though, which normally contain errors because they haven't been peer reviewed yet) 11:12:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:12:49 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:14:57 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Client Quit). 11:18:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GUIDED CHICKEN). 11:34:22 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 11:36:11 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Client Quit). 11:49:59 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:50:31 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 11:54:14 -!- dtscode has joined. 11:59:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:01:11 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:01:31 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:22:51 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:25:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:26:03 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:26:29 -!- atslash has joined. 12:34:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:37:28 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:37:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:40:17 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:50:04 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:52:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:53:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:57:20 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:00:45 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:01:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:07:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:07:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:22:15 if arxiv added a comment and rating system, limited to academics, then would we need peer review? 13:28:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:28:33 oren: you'd still need to encourage people to review, I think 13:28:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:28:46 also that would sort-of miss the reality of how conferences work (but maybe not journals) 13:35:08 -!- aretecode has joined. 13:37:14 `olist 999 13:37:20 olist 999: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 13:39:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 13:40:35 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:42:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:43:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:48:53 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:56:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: meeting). 14:05:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:25:30 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:29:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: making another attempt at that meeting). 14:31:12 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:35:20 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 14:41:48 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:57:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: going home). 15:36:42 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 15:40:40 ooh, 999 15:54:43 very millennial plot 15:55:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:56:03 fnûrd. 15:57:32 Fnørd. 15:58:05 ƒท๑я∂ 16:42:05 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:42:05 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host). 16:42:05 -!- _256Q has joined. 16:43:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 16:52:27 -!- a21 has joined. 16:54:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:58:37 -!- a21 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:10:53 -!- stalem has joined. 17:12:15 -!- a21 has joined. 17:15:40 -!- a21 has quit (Client Quit). 17:23:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:24:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:31:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:32:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:37:27 -!- Wright has joined. 17:44:34 -!- 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reset by peer). 19:53:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:15:48 -!- Loraenil has joined. 20:17:05 -!- Loraenil has quit (Client Quit). 20:32:29 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:25 @tell boily ah, the mother modem, that is swedish and hilariously wrong 20:46:26 Consider it noted. 21:05:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:08:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:11:07 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43832 * Undergroundmonorail * (+127) Created page with "I'm undergroundmonorail and I'm deeply disturbed by the fact that I can't get rid of the uppercase U in the title of this page." 21:11:38 lol 21:12:05 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43833&oldid=43832 * Undergroundmonorail * (+7) clarity 21:13:28 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 21:17:10 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:23:04 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:23:13 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:30:26 olsner: Apparently it's a kind of a Thing in Swedish computery forums. 21:32:36 -!- stalem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:38:43 -!- gde33|2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:41:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:41:59 -!- gde33 has joined. 21:43:41 -!- Wright has joined. 21:49:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:52:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:56:04 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43834&oldid=43833 * Oerjan * (+14) EMERGENCY LIFESAVING USERPAGE EDIT 22:57:52 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:21:07 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:41 -!- staffehn has joined. 23:38:32 -!- mauris has joined. 2015-08-21: 00:22:48 hello! 00:23:31 top of the night to you! 00:23:41 hi oerjan 00:24:02 oerjan: shocking prediction: hel's vote will be in the direction of a tie hth 00:24:10 *GASP* 00:24:28 it _would_ be rather useless to show up otherwise 00:24:41 stories have so much selection bias :'( 00:24:50 my far out prediction obviously failed 00:25:15 now we may wonder what happens with a tie. 00:25:37 given they were an odd number without Hel, it's probably not common. 00:26:10 presumably the twelve gods run into that more frequently 00:26:21 another thought: we haven't seen belkar's body, which means by ancient trope we cannot assume he's dead yet. 00:26:26 shachaf: tru dat 00:27:00 perhaps he shows up in the next comic to get blasted into atoms 00:27:14 or thaums 00:27:41 i guess there are atoms, given redcloak's chemisty knowledge 00:28:34 oots _does_ have pretty explicit narrative causality 00:28:57 so "selection bias" is not unexpected 00:31:08 shachaf: interestingly, they might have been in better shape if they _hadn't_ given veldrina a lift 00:31:34 because the western p. voted yes 00:32:09 that's an astute p. 00:32:38 although narrative causality would probably have messed up any attempt to make her get too late 00:33:15 -!- boily has joined. 00:33:21 @metar CYUL 00:33:21 CYUL 210000Z 15013KT 15SM BKN085 BKN150 28/19 A2983 RMK AC6AC1 SLP100 DENSITY ALT 1700FT 00:33:22 my far out prediction btw was that hel _wanted_ a no result and would swing it that way 00:33:41 because it had a better chance of _total_ disaster 00:34:01 oerjan: how does chemistry work in olistworld anyway twh 00:34:21 shachaf: well you have titanium elementals... 00:34:42 296 refers to an ideal gas 00:34:50 but maybe that's in the same spirit as "nuking from orbit" 00:34:56 presumably there's no orbit in oland? 00:34:58 and chlorine elementals 00:34:59 [wiki] [[Grocery List]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43835&oldid=37037 * Nooodl * (+201) add interpreter 00:35:36 i love implementing boring languages 00:35:41 shachaf: i'm not sure it's established the world is actually flat 00:36:34 in fact wasn't it shown as round in some of the snarl story 00:37:09 that's true 00:37:10 http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html 00:37:32 that's true 00:37:36 yay my laptop is on the way 00:37:38 and the world within the world was also round 00:39:31 actually the comment there about the snarl not grasping the plan could point to destroying the world again maybe being more dangerous if it's got smarter... 00:39:50 * oerjan wonders if that line is parseable by humans 00:40:26 hellørjan. speaking in tongues? harbouring the Spirit of Fungot? 00:40:32 @massages-loud 00:40:33 olsner said 3h 54m 6s ago: ah, the mother modem, that is swedish and hilariously wrong 00:40:50 *actually the comment there, about the snarl not grasping the plan, could mean that destroying the world _again_ could be more dangerous, if it's got smarter... 00:42:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:44:16 like the Old Chinese Proverb says, "oic". 00:51:09 http://nic.vodka/ 00:55:47 -!- bb010g has joined. 00:57:26 -!- staffehn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:00:36 izbellora. 01:00:48 there are vodka TLDs now? 01:00:52 apparently 01:01:10 and I always manage to typo your porthello some way or another. sorry. 01:01:39 it's fine boillory 01:11:55 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CROCODILE CHICKEN). 01:12:07 hizabera! 01:13:55 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:14:26 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 01:15:26 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 01:16:00 [wiki] [[Talk:Sclipting]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43836 * 218.102.194.114 * (+40) Created page with "==Issues== What about Kana and Bopomofo?" 01:16:09 ooh, my new credit card is going to be black. who decides whcih colors are better anyway 01:16:49 They should make credit cards in FF00FF 01:19:19 Or transparent! yah. they should make semitransparent purple credit cards like the GBA 01:27:33 what does this piece of assembly do? test cl, cl jne label 01:28:36 does it ever jump? 01:34:53 challenge of the night: write a program that takes two strings and outputs a brainfuck program that replaces str1 with str2 01:42:29 jne means jump if ZF is 0 01:42:55 test sets ZF to 1 iff the two argumnets ANDed is 0 01:43:18 hence this would jump iff cl is zero 01:43:27 oooh 01:43:27 s/is/isn't/ 01:43:31 oooh 01:43:47 thank you, i didn't know the and part 02:04:11 http://i.imgur.com/lu9wz7i.png 02:04:16 how do i stop this 02:04:17 politely 02:05:37 stop watching mietek? 02:06:03 is that polite? 02:06:29 what will he think? x.x 02:21:17 -!- lleu has quit (Quit: That's what she said). 02:21:43 -!- lleu has joined. 02:27:08 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:27:25 -!- lleu has joined. 02:36:29 -!- _256Q has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:36:33 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:42:19 I found some webpage that tries to analyze your writing style and tell you what author you are writing like but it isn't very consistent and keep telling different answer. How would you classify my writing styles though? 02:42:46 (I pasted in several chapters from level20.tex and got many different answers.) 02:43:11 same input same output, at least? 02:44:53 Yes, if the same input is given several times, it does give the same output each time too. 02:45:28 are you a native english speaker? 02:45:58 Yes, but it is Canadian English 03:06:02 zzo38: lots of your sentences are subtly ungrammatical, so your writing style is very recognizable to me. 03:08:23 for example, in that line of yours, i think most english speakers would write: "tell you" -> "tells you", "keep telling different answer" -> "keeps telling different answers"; and consider your versions incorrect 03:11:57 i assumed that zzo38 was a second-generation immigrant, e.g. taught english by non-native speakers 03:14:53 how is mine? 03:15:48 No I was born in British Columbia and lived here all of my lifetime so far (although I have occasionally been to a few other places). Apparently they spoke to me in other languages too but now I forgot, and I speak and write English instead. 03:17:23 i don't think zzo38's grammar was wrong in that line; the "tries to" can scope over all the verbs, which means they can be infinitives 03:17:52 hm wait 03:18:07 oerjan, either way "*different answer" needs either an article or a plural though 03:18:08 the "tell" works, but not the "keep" 03:18:17 but yeah, the "tell" does work! 03:18:43 Right, but your parents are from another country correct? You have a "residual accent". 03:19:41 My grandparents are from other countries 03:22:28 hmm, I haven't heard of an accent goig down three generations before. interesting 03:24:36 you tend to skip plurals and verb agreement basically 03:24:46 i don't think zzo38's manner of writing is an ESL-related thing! 03:25:21 i don't want to assume too much 03:26:39 One of my friends' parents are from russia and because of that he has verb agreement and plurals, but he never puts in any articles when he talks 03:27:38 however, i've seen some evidence that zzo38's writing used to be a _lot_ weirder, years ago (before he came to this channel) 03:28:00 so basically zzo38 has a residue from a language with articles (or at least a similar distinction), but no verb agreement or plural? 03:28:47 his spelling used to be weird too, not any more 03:31:01 zzo38: do you remember why you used to spell the way you did? 03:32:00 mauris: I don't know. But what I do know is that much of that stuff (whether or not it is spelled properly) is full of imposters or confusing someone with someone else, but not all of it is (some is authentic) and I do not know why; sorry. 03:32:41 yeah, i always wondered if it was in error, or if you were advocating some kind of phonetic spelling of English 03:33:11 Well, sorry I just do not know! Although it is true that English has not very good spelling compared to other languages 03:33:22 If you have read my level20.tex and other stuff then how would it be called as the writing style I write with, compare to other author's writing, etc? 03:35:21 zzo38: could you render the current level20.tex to pdf and upload it somewhere? i don't have a TeX renderer on hand, and reading raw .tex code is confusing sometimes :( 03:37:13 I could; I think this computer has dvi to pdf converter (it comes with TeX), so I will just put it in the same directory as the .tex and .dvi files I suppose. 03:39:39 OK, I have done that 03:40:09 cool! can you link the file? 03:41:33 http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex the .dvi and .pdf are also in the same directory (if you want the source files, you also need dungeonsrecording.tex in the same directory) 03:43:40 (There is also level20.trope in the same directory, although it may not be very good; it and the corresponding All The Tropes article could both be improved; actually level20.tex itself could even be improved too) 03:44:10 i can't help but wonder how to pronounce Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe 03:46:09 I don't know either, but I tried anyways and can do nearly approximately. (Note that this is mentioned in the tropes article/RDF too) 03:54:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:58:08 -!- Wallacoloo has left. 04:24:28 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:33:06 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:33:24 -!- Wright has joined. 04:54:07 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:00:23 Is it possible to make blinking text with CSS animations? And then I could add a global CSS rule to fix the command? 05:09:03 This architecture has a 16-bit A (used for memory addresses and loading constants) register. The instruction set allows for setting A directly with 15-bit numbers (16-bit instruction set, MSB=0 means put the rest of the instruction into A), and memory chips in this have 14-bit addresses (I think) 05:10:51 Haven't actually assembled CPU so maybe they'll surprise me and use two RAM16Ks, but it would have been easier to build a RAM32K (which I'm not being asked to do) 05:12:54 What instruction set is that? 05:14:49 The Hack CPU defined by The Elements of Computing Systems, http://nand2tetris.org/chapters/chapter%2004.pdf 05:15:06 Start reading from 4.2.2 05:15:23 page 8 of the PDF 05:22:08 Oh probably for memory-mapped IO 05:37:00 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:38:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 05:49:57 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:03:21 -!- tswett has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:25:33 `learn Soap is the main ingredient for the iridiscent visions that internet startups sell to investors. 06:25:54 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 06:26:08 (it's cheap. see also: bubble -- but I have no good definition for the latter yet) 06:27:53 Hi int-e 06:28:19 `` sed -i s/iridiscent/iridescent/ wisdom/soap # *sigh* 06:29:00 wait. 06:29:11 -!- stalem has joined. 06:29:13 hackego is online, but not here... 06:29:16 Mm 06:29:34 Get em to join or do you not have the perm 06:32:40 -!- Deewiant has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:32:43 you guys know how often oerjan is around? 06:33:20 haven't been on in awhile so id say for myself he's on pretTy regularly 06:33:28 Unless he died then in which case rip 06:33:45 heh ok thanks 06:33:55 Every day, but he has a fairly unpredictable sleep schedule. 06:34:05 don't we all? 06:34:20 he was there 3 hours ago 06:34:23 I'm fixin mine up 06:34:52 3 hrs ago? is he a bat? 06:35:05 He's an esoteric meme 06:35:13 And I think he'd be on later 06:35:20 I did write "unpredictable sleep schedule" for a reason. 06:35:21 -!- Deewiant has joined. 06:36:16 true, it's just i live a time zone hour before him and being up at that time. not that i should be talking tho 06:36:57 mastering the 20 minute nap would be convenient however 06:38:08 Oh well, I used to follow an approximate 26 hour rhythm when I was a student... 06:38:49 stalem: afaik it is horrible if you delay one sleep time for even 15 minutes 06:39:37 I tried uberman for a month 06:39:38 that's pretty much what i do now and i don't seem to be able to get rid of it. it's like i'm pavloved into a noncircadian rhythm. how did you get out of it? 06:39:41 It was horrible 06:39:56 myname: yeah you wake up feeling all mushy 06:40:44 stalem: external pressure (i.e., a job). 06:41:45 int-e: in time then! maybe it's just me but i do find it somewhat a challenge even applying for jobs when you're not following a 24hr schedule 07:08:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:31:32 I fixed the command in the new version of Firefox by writing the userContent.css file to fix it. 07:32:39 blink { animation: __blink 1s infinite; } @keyframes __blink { from {} 50% {visibility: hidden;} to {visibility: hidden;} } 07:36:46 y u do dis ;-; 07:37:37 by fixed you meant disabled? 07:38:20 But "text-decoration: blink" still doesn't work. How do you make CSS selectors to select based on the styles that have been applied to an element? 07:39:04 myname: I mean I fixed it so that the text will blink if inside of ... 07:39:14 gross 07:40:15 Anyone who want to use also can easily customize the blinking speed, currently it is set to 1 second 07:47:58 -!- x10A94 has joined. 07:48:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:49:19 -!- heroux has joined. 07:55:56 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Quit: Fuck me). 08:08:52 Good morning 08:34:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:56:35 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 08:56:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:56:36 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 09:00:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:05:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:14:25 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:34:03 [wiki] [[Pada]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43837&oldid=17354 * Martin Büttner * (-225) Minor language change after email conversation with the original author. Commands will no longer be pipelined through the system but processed one at a time. 09:37:15 [wiki] [[Pada]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43838&oldid=43837 * Martin Büttner * (-26) 09:39:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:40:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:45:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 09:46:10 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:46:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:25:53 -!- boily has joined. 11:17:09 int-e: int-ello! the soap is documented and online. 11:21:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ATTUNED CHICKEN). 11:52:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:54:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:07:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:10:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:16 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 12:39:21 -!- fowl has quit (*.net *.split). 12:39:21 -!- villasukka has quit (*.net *.split). 12:40:08 -!- fowl has joined. 12:49:28 -!- villasukka has joined. 12:56:21 [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Undergroundmonorail * uploaded "[[File:Rainbow-pb.png]]": An example input/output of rainbow.pb. 13:00:14 [wiki] [[Pb]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43840 * Undergroundmonorail * (+5928) page created 13:03:30 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43841&oldid=43828 * Undergroundmonorail * (+9) added pb 13:14:17 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:18:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:30:11 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 13:31:34 [wiki] [[Pada]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43842&oldid=43838 * Martin Büttner * (+125) 13:47:40 -!- FireFly has quit (Changing host). 13:47:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:51:20 -!- aretecode has joined. 14:10:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:11:49 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:17:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:23:36 -!- Warrigal has joined. 14:24:26 -!- _256Q has joined. 14:24:31 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett. 14:25:03 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:25:03 -!- tswett has joined. 14:43:41 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:52:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:11:12 * oerjan snores in stalem's general direction 15:11:43 * stalem borks back at oerjan 15:12:07 stalem: i'm a little unsure exactly how you define quine 15:12:10 lemme just do the dishes and i'll be back in 10 15:14:07 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:14:31 oh wait you mean never changes from step to step? 15:14:37 indeed 15:14:43 i was just about to write it :P 15:14:53 hm then the TC objection doesn't hold 15:15:06 that was more for, "returns back to the same eventually" 15:15:25 yeah that much i know it does, but iirc they were called oscillators 15:15:44 imho that would be a program that generates a program that eventually generates the original program (a cool idea btw) 15:16:23 iterated quines are a thing 15:16:59 i see. well in any case i meant a sequence that doesn't change from step to step. an unmodified yet modified sequence 15:17:56 by iterated quines, do you mean code that generates sources in other languages which eventually comes back or does just using one language count? 15:18:14 i think one language counts, although polyglots are cooler... 15:18:55 [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43843&oldid=43785 * Stalem * (+19) clarification 15:21:26 i must say i agree. by any chance would you mind taking a look at my thoughts on the 2 2 ... 2 sequences? 15:21:28 > let f n s=var$s++show(succ n`mod`3)++show s in f"let f n s=var$s++show(succ n`mod`3)++show s in f"0 15:21:30 No instance for (Integral [Char]) arising from a use of ‘f’ 15:21:30 In the expression: 15:21:30 f "let f n s=var$s++show(succ n`mod`3)++show s in f" 0 15:21:33 darn 15:21:41 oops wrong order 15:22:50 > let f s n=var$s++show s++show(succ n`mod`3) in f"let f s n=var$s++show s++show(succ n`mod`3) in f"0 15:22:52 let f s n=var$s++show s++show(succ n`mod`3) in f"let f s n=var$s++show s++sh... 15:22:59 neat 15:23:04 oh come on lambdabot 15:23:42 i'll leave you two to it while i fetch some food :P 15:24:20 damn i cannot use lambda because string escape 15:24:28 or wait 15:24:55 > (\s n->var$s++show s++show(succ n`mod`3))"(\\s n->var$s++show s++show(succ n`mod`3))"0 15:24:57 (\s n->var$s++show s++show(succ n`mod`3))"(\\s n->var$s++show s++show(succ n... 15:25:33 int-e: lambdabot is far too succinct these days 15:29:00 owell, i think i got your point anyway :P 15:31:28 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 15:41:59 [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43844&oldid=43843 * Quintopia * (-187) The rest of this section has been treating the all-twos period 1 oscillator as a known and obvious fact. 15:44:50 -!- stalem has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:45:04 aww 15:45:11 @tell stalem aww 15:45:11 Consider it noted. 15:46:25 quintopia: harsh man 15:47:09 [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43845&oldid=43844 * Quintopia * (+135) 15:48:09 oerjan: i just read the proof and it actually proves these are the only period 1 oscillators. Which is interesting. i'm leaving the link., 15:48:21 @tell stalem the interesting part is that those are the only ones 15:48:21 Consider it noted. 15:53:17 -!- Melvar` has joined. 15:53:25 i'm not quite sure skipping the 0 \/ part is _quite_ that easy to justify 15:53:32 but it's probably right, anyway 15:55:50 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:02:35 -!- x10A94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:04:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:05:17 -!- Wright has joined. 16:06:07 [wiki] [[ResPlicate]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43846&oldid=43845 * Stalem * (-97) dead link 16:07:00 * oerjan swats Stalem in absentia for overreacting -----### 16:23:15 -!- mauris has changed nick to krauris. 16:33:26 [wiki] [[Pada]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43847&oldid=43842 * Martin Büttner * (+5) Add newline to Hello World 16:58:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Etc.). 17:47:01 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:47:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:59:13 -!- Typical has joined. 17:59:20 hello 18:00:11 hello? 18:01:14 Hello, what do you want please? 18:01:35 i just wanted to check the channel 18:01:47 O, OK 18:02:14 ok i lied 18:02:31 i have idea of esoteric programming language 18:02:37 OK. What idea is it? 18:03:29 to have only one symbol, count symbols, convert from unary to binary and do something like chicken 18:03:38 but i saw this page um wait 18:03:47 this http://esolangs.org/wiki/OISC 18:04:11 but it was unclear for me and i dont know if its the same or not 18:04:58 could you 18:05:10 tell me if you know 18:06:16 I think it is not the same 18:06:32 thanks 18:06:46 OISC is a instruction set with one instruction (usually with one or more operands), but what you describe is different 18:07:42 thanks, so i will try to write what i described 18:19:24 -!- lunadelsiglo has joined. 18:19:27 -!- lunadelsiglo has left. 18:22:46 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Typical Username * New user account 18:23:41 i made this account 18:24:17 to prevent stealing my probably not that awesome idea 18:24:21 Please do not write a clone of Unary. Or Ook. Or AAAAAAA!!! or whatever. Make yours stand out somehow. 18:25:23 i have to check what is unary 18:26:57 nooooooo, its i as i guessed before before 18:28:40 someone invented my idea before 18:28:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:29:24 thanks @quintopia , at least i didnt not waste my time 18:30:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:32:39 you could hang around 18:32:50 spend some time wiki walking 18:33:02 not everything has been done before 18:34:10 i really did 18:36:52 not everything has been done before but most of the things that i can and want have 18:38:03 did you look at the list of ideas? none of them interest you? 18:38:16 people 18:38:30 are you a good programmer at all? 18:49:25 im not good programmer 18:49:34 could you tell me where i can find this list? 18:52:24 there is a link on the wiki's front page 18:55:23 yay i found it, thanks 19:04:30 [wiki] [[User:Undergroundmonorail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43848&oldid=43834 * Undergroundmonorail * (+63) 19:05:38 [wiki] [[Pb]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43849&oldid=43840 * Undergroundmonorail * (+14) lowercase title 19:12:43 -!- nycs has joined. 19:14:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:49:01 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:57:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:22:43 -!- krauris has changed nick to mauris. 20:28:24 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 20:28:34 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:28:44 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:33:35 -!- carado has joined. 20:33:36 How to make a break signal with xterm? 20:33:38 greetings ! 20:34:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:34:28 zzo38: I'm not convinced that a pseudoterminal, which is how xterm implements its terminal, has a break signal 20:34:39 the ioctl says that it only works on a serial terminal 20:34:56 however, by default the terminal settings are set up so that a break sends SIGINT and control-C also sends SIGINT 20:35:10 so if the terminal configuration is at its default, pressing control-C will do the same thing as a break 20:37:05 I am using a program that I have to change it though 20:45:19 [wiki] [[Talk:Pb]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43850 * Rdebath * (+328) /* Visibility as it's running. */ new section 20:46:47 Actually I fixed my program now 20:47:08 But still why it shouldn't be allow with pseudoterminals? 20:48:13 zzo38: it's because a break is basically the name for mis-encoded data on a serial wire 20:48:24 so according to the ioctl docs, it only works on serial terminals 20:48:41 it doesn't work on the ctrl-alt-f1 terminal or pseudoterminals, because those aren't using serial communications internally, and so can't have misencoded data 20:56:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:56:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:04:51 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:05:33 -!- Typical has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:05:56 It looks to me that all features of Z-machine other than sounds and joystick can be implemented using xterm and termios functions; even some of the functions of xterm would help much with it; but many of these are newer features of xterm than had existed in Infocom's times (did xterm even exist at all in their time?) 21:12:08 xterm: "Initial release: 1984; 31 years ago"; Infocom: "Founded: MIT (June 22, 1979); Defunct: May 5, 1989". 21:12:13 Some overlap there. 21:20:57 [wiki] [[Talk:Pb]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43851&oldid=43850 * Undergroundmonorail * (+347) 21:35:29 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:44:32 [wiki] [[Talk:Pb]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43852&oldid=43851 * Undergroundmonorail * (+313) 21:46:45 [wiki] [[Talk:Pb]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43853&oldid=43852 * Undergroundmonorail * (+0) 21:59:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 22:13:08 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 22:22:49 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:34:29 [wiki] [[Pb]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43854&oldid=43849 * Undergroundmonorail * (+6) formatting 22:36:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:57:52 -!- boily has joined. 23:00:34 boihly 23:00:47 bœrjansoir! 23:01:56 hi boily 23:02:00 hellochaf! 23:02:04 when's the new olist coming out 23:02:11 new olist? 23:02:25 as in, the list itself is changing? 23:03:02 shachaf: did you get 999 twh 23:03:57 Get? 23:04:00 `run perl -MData::Dumper -e 'print Dumper([ "" =~ /()|()/g ]);' # it makes perfect sense, but somehow I wasn't expecting it 23:04:10 become aware of 23:04:28 ... 23:04:37 fizzie: annoying, isn't it? 23:04:40 Yes. 23:05:03 oerjan: have you forgotten my shocking prediction 23:05:13 which one 23:05:21 about the tie 23:05:25 fizziello. what does that perl do? 23:06:13 fizzie: what you need to do is implement a command so anyone can make HackEgo rejoin twh 23:06:30 -!- HackEgo has joined. 23:06:47 what you need to do is implement a command so anyone can run arbitrary code as root on the machine HackEgo is running on twh 23:07:01 `run perl -MData::Dumper -e 'print Dumper([ "" =~ /()|()/g ]);' 23:07:05 ​$VAR1 = [ \ '', \ undef \ ]; 23:07:19 I mean, it couldn't be anything else. But I still somehow expected both to be ''. 23:07:21 -!- _256Q has left ("Leaving"). 23:07:55 I don't know enough Perl to know the meaning here. 23:08:30 more shocking prediction: the tie causes all the gods to start fighting, creating a new rift that swallows belkar hth 23:10:14 most shocking prediction: rich burlew ends oots next strip. 23:10:29 "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DIDN'T EXPECT IT" 23:11:06 "I GOT THE IDEA FROM MY FRIEND TAILSTEAK" 23:11:20 shachaf: It's just saying that matching ()|() to an empty string and then asking for the captured groups gives an empty string for the first group, and an undef for the second. 23:11:47 oerjan: DANGER 23:11:48 http://rlv.zcache.co.uk/svc/view?design=a9643add-8fab-453e-b62d-7a38397bd220&max_dim=512 23:12:22 yep, that's clearly the kind of tie being gone for here 23:13:13 fizzie: OK, so that's like matchin "a" with /^(a)|(a)$/ ? 23:13:15 g 23:13:33 Or is it only surprising with empty strings? 23:14:25 /!\ DANGER /!\ 23:15:05 oerjan: well, we already got a happy ending 23:15:24 oerjan: so at this point olist is superfluous 23:15:44 * oerjan suddenly realizes two of the webcomics he follows are drawn by richs 23:15:47 not merely fluous like it was before 887 23:16:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:16:18 shachaf: are there any oracle predictions not fulfilled yet... 23:16:38 oerjan: but how many of them got >$1e7 for their comics 23:16:56 oops, 1e6 23:16:56 ooh 23:17:11 PROBABLY AT MOST ONE 23:18:20 shachaf: It only surprised me with empty strings, because I was expecting the unmatched groups to return empty strings. 23:25:21 does the place they're in now count as durkon's dwarven homelands? if not, that part hasn't been fulfilled. 23:25:41 he's posthumous, but in the wrong place. 23:28:14 oerjan: there was also that other prophecy 23:28:53 shachaf: the one about belkar 23:29:03 hasn't been fulfilled on-camera yet 23:29:12 and elan's happy ending cannot happen until the end, by definition 23:29:25 ais523: We've already had a happy ending. 23:29:35 shachaf: I don't think that one counts 23:29:46 ais523: It's titled "Happy Ending" 23:29:58 Anyway, I was talking about the prophecy where Durkon "would bring death and destruction upon his people" 23:30:02 shachaf: that one definitely doesn't count, because (spoilers) it didn't actually happen 23:30:14 shachaf: that one wasn't an oracle prophecy 23:30:18 ais523: It happened from Elan's perspective. 23:30:32 no it didn't, in fact Elan realised it wasn't real 23:30:33 ais523: Oh, right, oerjan did specify "oracle". 23:30:41 [wiki] [[User:Vioz-]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43855 * Vioz- * (+111) Created page with "I'm a guy who enjoys code golfing. [http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/38417/vioz Here's my PPCG profile]." 23:30:49 None of this comic strip is real. 23:30:56 wasn't canon, then 23:31:07 i.e. wasn't real from an in-story perspective 23:31:31 It was real from the perspective of Elan. Later he realized that it wasn't "real" from outside the phantasm, but he still experienced it. 23:31:42 He got everything he wanted. 23:32:10 I don't really buy the whole "real" and "not real" business. 23:33:23 Smullyan talks about this in one of his books. I think _5000 B.C._ 2015-08-22: 00:22:06 [wiki] [[Loader]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43856 * SuperJedi224 * (+704) Created page with "'''Loader''' is an upcoming esolang by SuperJedi224, where recursive module loading is the principal mode of recursion and iteration. A load statement loads a module on a cop..." 00:29:25 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43857&oldid=43856 * SuperJedi224 * (-24) 00:38:33 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43858&oldid=43857 * SuperJedi224 * (+346) 00:38:54 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43859&oldid=43858 * SuperJedi224 * (-36) 00:42:08 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43860&oldid=43859 * SuperJedi224 * (+16) 00:43:54 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43861&oldid=43860 * SuperJedi224 * (+62) 00:45:23 "I have time enough to drag you down to meet Nergal with me!!" 00:46:15 it occurs to me that malack clearly expected to go to some afterlife. which means he didn't simply stop existing entirely. 00:46:20 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43862&oldid=43861 * SuperJedi224 * (+4) /* Count down from 10 */ 00:47:30 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43863&oldid=43862 * SuperJedi224 * (+121) /* Example Programs */ 00:47:46 which leads to another shocking prediction: he might show up to help durkon one last time. 00:48:44 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43864&oldid=43863 * SuperJedi224 * (-127) 00:52:27 The caps lock and num lock light on my computer is broken; how can I make it to display on the screen instead? 00:53:13 hezzo38. what kind of OS/WM/DE/GUI are you using? 00:53:15 There is the program "xkbvleds" but I want to put in the status bar where it is displayed the time and system load 00:53:58 I am using OEM Ubuntu Linux, with i3-wm, a custom status bar program, and no desktop environment. 00:55:40 sounds like the sort of custom status bar program you can pipe in stuff from scripts. 00:56:47 It is; I wrote the C program to output the JSON data which i3 uses to display the status bar. 01:03:21 But how can I put the keyboard status display on there? 01:07:23 `unicode UPWARDS WHITE ARROW FROM BAR WITH HORIZONTAL BAR 01:07:36 ...? 01:07:38 No output. 01:07:44 * boily mapoles HackEgo 01:08:49 `unicode U+21EC 01:08:50 ​⇬ 01:08:53 ah! 01:08:58 `unicode U+21ED 01:08:59 ​⇭ 01:09:14 zzo38: something like that, or am I completely misunderstanding your problem? 01:09:43 No I mean how to put it on there. I can use ASCII characters just fine, I mean how to make it even display it there! 01:10:31 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43865&oldid=43864 * SuperJedi224 * (-138) /* "Hello, World!" */ 01:12:52 there's 'xset q' that you can grep for caps/num/scroll lock status? 01:13:18 * boily feels like there's some vital information he's not grasping at all 01:16:41 I hope to do it without making it to execute other programs, because I want to do it per second, or preferably, when the key is pushed only. 01:17:38 lightbulb! 01:18:53 http://stackoverflow.com/a/8429021 ? 01:26:57 -!- edtoast_46 has joined. 01:28:12 please try joining #edtoast .I would greatly appreciate it 01:28:14 -!- edtoast_46 has left ("Leaving"). 01:30:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CROISSANT CHICKEN). 01:32:03 -!- grotewold has joined. 01:45:25 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:46:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:46:26 -!- edtoast_46 has joined. 01:47:24 -!- edtoast_46 has left ("Leaving"). 01:52:11 -!- edtoast_46 has joined. 01:53:06 edtoast_46: i hope you're not advertising that everywhere or your channel may soon be ... you know what. 01:53:43 -!- Leo1 has joined. 01:54:03 where's that swatter when you need it twh 01:54:15 IN A SAFE PLACE 01:55:00 -!- edtoast_46 has left ("Leaving"). 01:55:23 shachaf: you're around. is e spamming generally? 01:55:39 I'm less around than I used to be. 01:55:48 But I haven't seen them elsewhere. 01:55:53 me neither 02:11:27 -!- Leo1 has left. 02:14:28 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 02:18:37 I made up a simple kind of virtual machine and this is one example code that can be used with it: http://sprunge.us/SSbY 02:43:15 is there any valid regex that has no possible match? 02:43:37 izabera: depends on what regex operators you allow 02:44:11 I'm inclined to say no if you're restricted to the usual set, because you can recursively build up a string that matches via taking the first possible option with each operator 02:44:20 but in various sorts of extended regexes it's easy 02:44:34 let's start with the basics 02:44:37 e.g. if you have lookahead or lookbehind you can easily place two contradictory assertions on the same character 02:44:40 (a|b) x* x+ x? x{a,b} 02:44:50 all such regexes have a match 02:44:58 ofc 02:45:06 replace all x* and x? with the null string, x+ with x, x{a,b} with a copies of x, and (a|b) with a 02:45:16 sure 02:45:36 is $^ a valid regex? 02:45:51 depends on the regex parser, I think 02:46:09 many would allow "a^" with no matches 02:46:29 ok 02:49:24 I wish regular expressions supported intersection and complement. 02:51:09 your shell supports extended globs, they're a different flavour of regular expressions 02:52:08 !(a|b) not a nor b @(a|b) a or b +(a) 1 or more a *(a) zero or more a ?(a) zero or one a 02:52:41 What's the complement of /ab/ expressed as a regex? 02:52:51 !(ab) 02:53:13 That is not regex syntax. 02:53:24 oh sorry i misunderstood the question 02:53:41 there's no complement of /ab/ in the classic regex 02:53:48 I'm sure there is. 02:53:50 there's that lookahead thing 02:53:54 It's just awkward to write it. 02:54:07 ^(?:ab)*$ something like this 02:54:25 No, not fancy Perl regex. 02:54:36 OK, I shouldn't say "sure". I think there most likely is. 02:54:38 there's no complement in BRE or ERE 02:54:49 /([^ab]|a[^b]|b)+/ 02:54:50 There's no operator, but you can manually compute the complement. 02:55:05 that doesn't count -_- 02:55:05 er, or maybe 02:55:08 /([^ab]|a[^b]|b)*/ 02:55:21 well, if you're allowing [^] 02:55:27 actually simpler 02:55:30 you could just do a character class containing every single character 02:55:32 and negate it 02:55:34 /([^a]|a[^b])*/ 02:55:40 [^] doesn't give you anything, does it? 02:55:42 [^\x0-\x{10ffff}] 02:55:57 Oh, you're still talking about that. Yes. 02:56:01 (Perl syntax, other regexes use slightly different escape syntaxes) 02:56:07 oren: doesn't match bla 02:56:10 What about /[]/ -- is that valid? 02:56:16 ais523 is talking about the previous question. 02:56:26 /([^a]|a[^b])*a?/ 02:56:42 in terms of negating regexes, I believe it's always possible but often blows them up exponentially 02:56:58 yeah probably 02:57:01 proof: convert regex to state machine; negate state machine (via swapping the success and failure states); convert state machine to regex 02:57:01 I think it might even be double-exponential. 02:57:09 Yep. 02:57:28 Oh, maybe just exponential. Not sure. 02:58:10 my guess is just exponential 02:58:24 well the most basic case is /abcdef/ in which you have 02:58:41 [^abcdef]|a[^bcdef].... 02:58:57 it gets way harder if the regex isn't anchored 02:59:10 try negating .*abc.* 02:59:28 (this came up in #esoteric a few months/years ago, there were tons of attempts at it and they were nearly all wrong) 02:59:34 isn't that the same as /abc/ in terms of what matches? 02:59:49 yes 02:59:54 I was just making the lack of anchors clearer 03:00:52 I once tried to write a regex match function that didn't build a state machine 03:01:09 backtracking is easier to write than the state machine version 03:01:14 but less efficient worst-case 03:01:27 My regular expression was a full match. 03:01:33 no, no data structure at all 03:01:38 ais523: That depends on the worst case. 03:01:56 I mean it simply went character by character through the two strings 03:02:04 I'm not sure which method is more efficient average-case 03:02:11 oren: how does it handle regexes like aab|aac? 03:02:15 Backtracking can handle things like (([ab]{99}){99}){99} better, someone mentioned. 03:02:33 oren: Well, that's the same as the state machine approach. 03:02:40 Assuming you have multiple "cursors" in the regex. 03:02:48 no only one 03:02:51 And you split when you see | and so on. 03:03:00 OK, then it sounds like backtracking. :-) 03:03:24 yeah except way more inefficient than most implementations 03:03:26 I feel like "backtracking vs. NFA" is a continuüm, not a choice of one of the other. 03:04:06 ooh, correctly used diaeresis 03:05:23 The NFA approach to regular expressions is like dynamic programming. You have a graph that you walk one step in each time you see a character, but when two paths through the graph reach the same node, you collapse them. 03:05:49 The backtracking approach keeps the full path, which means you can use backreferences and so on. 03:07:31 But maybe you can keep some amount of state associated with a node, but still not have it be the full path used to reach that node. 03:08:26 try negating .*abc.* <-- your approach (convert to state machine, negate, convert back) would work fine, wouldn't it? 03:08:42 mauris: yes, but it's really hard to do in your head 03:08:54 I'm not claiming it's impossible (it's definitely possible) 03:09:04 just that nearly all the attempts at it in practice get it wrong 03:09:06 oh, sure 03:09:21 I think I eventually came up with a correct solution, but after something like ten failures 03:09:40 OK, I think regexes that support intersection and complement need an double-exponential number of states. 03:09:57 As opposed to just exponential, for regregexes. 03:10:13 (DFA states, I mean.) 03:10:43 But it would be so useful that I'm annoyed that there are hardly any implementations around. 03:10:58 shachaf: regex inversion, or regex-to-DFA? 03:11:23 regex-to-DFA 03:11:28 hmm, I wonder if anyone's build a regex impl using yacc 03:11:35 regexes are a special case of context-free grammars, after all 03:11:37 The problem is that (P&Q) is multiplicative rather than additive. 03:17:48 isn't P|Q also multiplicative, in the general case? (you mean in # of DFA states, right?) 03:20:13 It's additive in the number of NFA states. 03:21:34 `? mauris 03:21:37 maur is the correct spelling 03:22:00 oh, sure 03:22:22 i said that three lines ago too, help am i a robot?? 03:24:23 relatedly i'm TAing a class on finite automata and regular expressions, and i get to come up with multiple choice questions for the exam! 03:24:43 They have multiple choice questions in .be? 03:24:54 I thought those only existed here. 03:26:13 super easy to grade, i guess 03:26:23 ("so easy a DFA could do it") 03:27:17 mauris: Does your class talk about how to implement intersection and complement efficiently? 03:30:44 mauris: are you a deterministic finite robot 03:31:21 `learn Robots are deterministic finite Belgians that repeat themselves. Taneb invented them. 03:31:27 Learned 'robot': Robots are deterministic finite Belgians that repeat themselves. Taneb invented them. 03:31:50 can you help meh? ;-; http://arin.ga/R4N7lx/raw why does this not match a(b|c)d ? 03:32:20 i'm trying to match regex with regex 03:33:16 izabera: the regex language you're using is insufficiently powerful to nest parens 03:33:31 so I already know that whatever you've come up with is wrong 03:33:50 thanks for the hint, i know that 03:34:04 i don't plan to match recursively only with regex 03:35:55 ah! i found it! 03:37:06 it needed an extra group (\|x|y) -> (\|(x|y)) 03:37:08 -!- dramforever has joined. 03:49:47 oerjan: 20:46 -!- edtoast_46 [~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:9dbe:f358:9656:99fc] has joined #haskell 03:49:50 hth 03:51:44 did e mention eir channel 03:52:09 a different channel with a certain five-character substring hth 03:52:36 hi there =) 03:53:08 `relcome dramforever 03:53:08 I'm trying to design a code golf PL using Chinese characters 03:53:10 ​dramforever: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 03:53:26 Yes I know there exists some 03:53:41 but I'm kinda having fun reinvening the wheel 03:54:01 just as long as you don't make it a round wheel, they're so old hat 03:54:13 hmm... 03:54:23 i've never heard of a round wheel being used as an old hat hthib 03:54:38 I'm pretty sure some common unicode symbols + Chinese could beat APL easily 03:56:14 how many characters are there? 03:56:47 dunno, but surely a lot 03:56:58 I'll make all operations one-char 03:56:59 > maxBound :: Char -- hth 03:57:01 '\1114111' 03:58:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_%28Unicode%29 wtf 03:58:06 shachaf: apparently "wheel hat" is a disappointingly unrelated thing. 04:00:09 um 04:00:25 ok so there are 1,114,112 valid characters 04:00:30 looks like the majority of the BMP is Unified CJK Han 04:01:18 Chinese characters are so sophisticated that a character is basically a word 04:01:21 build a huge lookup table with as many combiantions as possible of these: ><+-.,[] 04:01:57 izabera: why don't you just code in brain***k and 7z your code or something 04:03:08 No, there aren't 1114112 code points in Unicode. 04:03:43 "The 17 planes can accommodate 1,114,112 code points[...]" from that page 04:03:55 and lambdabot knows it 04:04:11 Maybe they could, but they don't. 04:04:20 Not every number between 0 and 1114111 corresponds to a code point. 04:05:23 For example 0xD800 - 0xDFFF 04:05:33 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:05:45 -!- Wright has joined. 04:06:29 boring <.< 04:06:50 -!- dramforever has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:07:16 -!- dramforever has joined. 04:07:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 04:08:28 -!- edtoast_46 has joined. 04:09:01 -!- edtoast_46 has left ("Leaving"). 04:09:13 Join #ToastIRC Today 04:09:49 ooh, it's our first -n spam 04:10:30 -n? 04:10:42 shachaf: channel mode that lets people not in the channel send to it 04:10:48 (look at the timing of the part versus the message) 04:10:54 Oh, the channel mode. 04:11:03 we had a debate a while back about whether -n would increase the amount of spam we got 04:11:22 -n is great because it confuses you about whether HackEgo is in the channel. 04:11:32 that was months ago, this is the first spam we've got 04:19:50 (Warning: nand2tetris spoilers) my assembly code could probably be clearer, maybe some newlines: http://pastie.org/private/lbxz7yz6d5fqe2kavpgq 04:20:05 nan2dtetris has spoilers? 04:20:06 -!- edtoast_46 has joined. 04:20:19 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523. 04:20:21 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: +b edtoast_46!*@*. 04:20:22 -!- ais523 has kicked edtoast_46 spammer. 04:20:23 If you consider project solutions to be spoilers 04:20:25 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523. 04:21:00 http://arin.ga/DFEDo3/raw uhm can you try to run this? what am i doing wrong? in the second example i want to keep b\|c together 04:21:00 hmm...idris-bot is here 04:21:01 why? 04:21:11 To run Idris code. 04:21:16 Or maybe type-check it. 04:21:19 that's not very...esoteric 04:21:24 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:22:10 * dramforever feels great so far 04:22:16 there's this satan.spawn() function in the idris standard library 04:23:25 -!- Froox has joined. 04:25:28 -!- Froo has joined. 04:26:30 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:28:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:28:45 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:30:02 -!- Froox has joined. 04:30:38 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:31:06 -!- dramforever has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:32:45 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:33:14 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:34:59 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:35:38 -!- Froox has joined. 04:41:37 whoa, there are all sorts of different types of grapes 04:42:36 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:42:53 -!- Froox has joined. 04:44:59 -!- Froo has joined. 04:47:31 -!- grotewold has joined. 04:47:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:48:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:48:31 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:48:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:49:08 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:50:27 -!- Froo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:53:14 mauris: Does your class talk about how to implement intersection and complement efficiently? <-- sadly, no; it talks about making the DFAs you end up with efficient through state elimination but the algorithms to get there are all naive 04:53:49 if you want to make ais523 ooh or aah, you can say naïve hth 04:58:54 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:00:44 -!- Froox has joined. 05:03:20 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:15:35 shachaf: 05:15:50 you'd have to ask a wine-lover about grapes 05:16:19 apparently they make wine with grapes that taste like other fruit or something 05:20:11 These grapes taste like delicious grapes. 05:20:15 Is that a kind of fruit? 06:20:27 You discuss whether -n would increase the amount of spam you got. Although you got the spam with the -n it still doesn't make much difference because they did join anyways! So, it is a bit strange kind of a example, kind of. 06:21:17 yes, it's not the sort of -n spam I expected 06:21:24 -!- Daniel01 has joined. 06:21:27 they joined, then parted, then sent the message 06:22:23 Yes 06:22:54 -!- anonymous777 has joined. 06:22:59 -!- Daniel01 has left. 06:23:01 Well, how else would they know that the channel is -n? 06:23:14 With the MODE command 06:23:40 hola 06:24:04 There is no even #ToastIRC channel as far as I can see (MODE tells me no such channel) 06:24:46 -!- Daniel01 has joined. 06:25:19 aski 06:25:27 -!- Daniel01 has left. 06:25:51 -!- anonymous777 has left. 06:26:08 ciao 06:26:10 !list 06:44:55 Remember: Make every program a filter! 06:46:03 even if i 'ardly know 'er? 06:46:14 What is a filter? 06:47:15 A UNIX-style-filter, where it uses stdin/stdout so you can use it with pipes and redirection and so on. 06:47:40 zzo38: what's your opinion of NetHack, in that respect? 06:47:41 A lot of modern programs don't, but ought to, in my opinion. 06:47:46 it takes input from stdin and produces output on stdout 06:48:03 but it also uses other files of its own, and generates and loads save files 06:48:15 and if stdin (or maybe stdout?) is not a terminal it refuses to run 06:48:16 Well, it is reasonable to do that in that case, to use stdin/stdout and various files 06:48:30 Although it ought to work even if they are not a terminal 06:48:39 What's your opinion of programs that seek in stdin, or mmap it? 06:48:45 So that you can use filters to make macros and character conversion and so on 06:49:08 shachaf: Normally it shouldn't, you should try to avoid it. But sometimes it seems like necessary anyways 06:50:12 But you could just use a file and make a `...` to capture a temporary filename perhaps, in the command-line argument, then it won't be a problem to be seeked even if it is a pipe. 06:50:15 zzo38: I think that shells shouldn't have < and > 06:50:22 Instead, there should be commands to read from files and write to files. 06:50:32 shachaf: Yes, you could do it without; use cat to read and make another program to write 06:50:37 shachaf: there's ready a command for reading from a file 06:50:39 You would use readfile f | filter | writefile g instead of filter < f > g 06:50:49 also, tee can be used to write to a file but it also copies output to stdout 06:50:51 ais523: I didn't say there wasn't. 06:50:56 Yes, tee works. 06:51:03 shachaf: I know, I'm trying to help you implement your idea 06:51:05 Sort of. 06:51:19 The other issue is that going through a pipe can be inefficient. 06:51:24 I'm not sure how to solve that. 06:52:27 If they are shell-builtins, that might solve it 06:52:36 The point is that they aren't shell builtins. 06:52:53 But maybe a different API would let you attach a file descriptor directly to a pipe. 06:53:41 Yes, I know it isn't, but if they are just shell-builtin command called < and > then it can still be use with syntax of pipe to be consistent even though it isn't 06:53:43 this reminds me of revcat 06:53:53 which I'm not sure I ever got working 06:53:56 it pipes its stdout to its stdin 06:54:01 I also want it to be easy to write to the network and so on. 06:54:13 Right now bash implements TCP sockets as a shell builtin or something, which is ridiculous. 06:54:24 so you can do revcat < a.txt | revcat | revcat >> b.txt, and it copies b.txt to a.txt 06:54:38 You can also write | tee (> nc ...) | ... in bash, or somehting along those lines. 06:54:39 also I think bash implements TCP sockets as a fake device file 06:54:49 Yes, that's what I meant. 06:54:56 For TCP connect you could use netcat, it probably shouldn't be a shell built-in 06:54:57 ais523: Another command that writes stdin to a file is sponge. 06:55:13 But I think sponge does it delayed? Sometimes this is useful though 06:55:17 I think sponge's behavior should just be an option to the command that writes a file. And so should tee's behavior. 06:55:46 But not so good if you want to write immediately, such as may be useful if you are writing to a device. 06:55:59 The point of sponge is that it's delayed, because people rely on the shell when they don't want it delayed. 06:56:31 hmm, /me looks at sponge 06:56:39 there are some other interesting-looking programs in the same package 06:56:47 Yes, I know, it is the point sometimes is useful for delayed but sometimes when it isn't. 06:57:04 Yes, that package has all sorts of jams. 06:57:53 oh, sponge seems to be designed for atomic output 06:58:00 Yes, that's the point of sponge. 06:58:11 cat file | sed ... | sponge file 07:00:31 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:00:32 It can be useful for use with hamarc too I suppose, if you want to delete a lump from a Hamster archive for example 07:00:58 sponge is a terrible idea... 07:01:34 The people who invented cat apparently think that concatenating files is its main use and displaying them is secondary. 07:02:14 x | y | z <- z starts writing when it receives EOF, which means that y is not writing anymore to the pipe, but x can still be active and doing stuff with that file 07:02:32 be doing stuff* 07:02:52 shachaf: I think they are both primary (although the -v option still ought to be a separate program in my opinion) 07:03:24 The primary feature is to copy zero or more files, and possibly stdin, to stdout. 07:04:11 zzo38: Should grep mmap stdin if it's a file? 07:04:29 gnu grep used to mmap it 07:05:05 https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2010-August/019310.html 07:05:06 I don't know 07:07:30 zzo38: Do you think programs should check if stdout is a terminal and behave differently? 07:08:53 shachaf: Depends on the program I suppose, but even then probably there should be the way to override it (even if it is a different program which is used to override it; for example cat changes it into a non-terminal, and perhaps another program could be made to do the opposite) 07:18:58 Many of my program I have written is filter, including "hamarc", "bamtovgm", "amigamml", "playmod", "xisynth", "utftovlq", and others. 07:20:03 (You can even do a "echo | amigamml | playmod | aplay" pipeline in order to preview a .XI file, although the .XI already has to be in a (seekable) file for this to work.) 07:23:01 I would want also .NSF player that is acting as a filter program, but one program execute the .NSF and puts the register writes to stdout (although it still has to process some registers internally due to the .NSF program can read status of some registers), and another program will process the register write data into audio, and then you use a third program to output the audio to the speaker (or compress it into Vorbis or whatever). 07:33:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 07:34:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit). 07:35:32 Therefore you can replace the parts easily with other stuff, such as instead of rendering the register writes to audio you can make it convert to .VGM or speed up or slow down or transpose the music or replace the renderer with an experimental one or wire it to an actual Famicom cartridge or put a program that tries to make up a optimized .NSF that produces the same output, or something else. 07:39:20 You could also replace the first part with netcat or with the reverse conversion of .VGM or some other format, or to read MIDI input, etc. Even, the last part you can add special effects, write to a compressed file, etc 07:39:37 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:46:54 Do you like this? At least I believe it is good idea 07:47:27 I don't know about NSF or VGM formats. 07:50:12 The NSF format is a file that contains a 6502 program to write registers for various sound chips used with Famicom. VGM is one format that is used to record the register writes for many different kind of sound chips. 08:04:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:25:20 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]). 08:30:28 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 08:34:28 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 08:45:04 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Quit: Waka flaka). 08:45:22 -!- zadock has joined. 08:47:10 -!- Skin has joined. 08:48:38 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805]). 08:52:47 -!- Skin has quit (Quit: Fuck me). 08:53:13 -!- Walpurgisnacht has joined. 08:53:26 -!- dramforever has joined. 08:55:58 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:08:24 -!- llue has joined. 09:10:46 -!- lleu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:43:52 https://github.com/izabera/reggen/blob/master/reggen first attempt at regex parsing with regex... for those who said that it's not possible... 09:47:04 -!- dramforever has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:54:27 i don't understand :P 09:54:55 it takes a regex and prints a string that matches it 09:55:09 ok, and who said that was impossible? 09:56:39 ais523 | izabera: the regex language you're using is insufficiently powerful to nest parens 09:56:41 ais523 | so I already know that whatever you've come up with is wrong 09:57:10 that sounds like a different problem 09:57:16 I guess the difference is that you're running a regex in a loop, so it's not a regex any more? 09:57:34 >.> 09:58:08 the usual way of writing down regular expressions is not a regular language 10:06:05 -!- grotewold has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:08:33 -!- Walpurgisnacht has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:27:55 -!- |f`-`|f has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:28:28 -!- |f`-`|f has joined. 10:48:01 -!- boily has joined. 10:51:17 `` sed -i 's/the reals,/the reals, robots,/' wisdom/tanebventions 10:51:26 sed: can't read wisdom/tanebventions: No such file or directory 10:51:48 `` ls wisdom/*anebv* 10:51:49 wisdom/tanebvention 10:51:53 `` sed -i 's/the reals,/the reals, robots,/' wisdom/tanebvention 10:51:55 No output. 10:52:14 `? robot 10:52:16 Robots are deterministic finite Belgians that repeat themselves. Taneb invented them. 10:58:54 hellint-ello. 10:59:07 I moved the tanebventions over to a new chapter. 11:04:08 * int-e checks the repo 11:34:13 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:40:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PANAMERICAN CHICKEN). 11:43:58 `` echo hi 11:43:58 hi 11:44:13 it allows arbitrary commands? :/ 11:47:02 yea, but it's sandboxed and under version control 11:47:08 That is how it works yes (although there are limits and sandbox and so on) 11:47:34 what kind of sandbox ooi 11:51:12 `` uname -a 11:51:13 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 12:07:00 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43866&oldid=43865 * SuperJedi224 * (-4) 12:13:39 Linux puppypc1015 3.9.11 #1 SMP Sat Jul 27 19:40:54 GMT-8 2013 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux 12:13:56 32 bit 4eva 12:14:42 or at least until purolator decides to deliver my damn computer 12:15:07 sorry, but 4GB address space simply aren't enough. 12:15:23 mine has only 2GB 12:15:52 (and the kernel takes between 0.5 and 2GB of that address space away for itself...) 12:16:50 if linux gets too bloated maybe I'll get minix or freebsd 12:16:59 32 bit 4eva 12:17:55 actually I have no clue whether the freebsd kernel is bigger or smaller 12:18:44 Is it possible to get gzip(5) manual page, or is only gzip(1) available? 12:19:41 -!- Trioxin has joined. 12:20:40 you're saying you want to know about the file format? 12:21:03 Yes, I would want the man page of the file format 12:21:20 how the hell did i wind up here 12:21:42 http://www.redblobgames.com/articles/visibility/ cool thingy 12:21:46 Trioxin: a series of bad life choices 12:22:12 Trioxin: Just because it does; that's all. 12:22:21 presumably you wanted to write unnecessarily complex solutions to simple problems for the sake of fun? 12:22:22 I guess you could convert RFC 1952 to a manpage 12:22:35 so brainfuck stands at the pinnacle of these languages? 12:22:55 brainfuck is too simple 12:23:24 which (if any) are actually useful? 12:23:39 Trioxin: Useful for what? That is what it need to depend on! 12:23:40 fungot: are you useful? 12:23:40 int-e: ( i'm not familiar with the repl, but 12:23:43 brainfuck, befunge-98, dc, and funciton are my favorites 12:24:08 fungot is written in befunge 12:24:08 oren: little kids should not be reached" etc. is that where your family is too?) and there i have to admit 12:24:29 it just vomits random quotes <.< 12:24:29 oren: dc the calculator? 12:24:38 they're not quotes 12:24:43 (most of the time) 12:24:52 ^help 12:24:52 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 12:24:55 ok it just vomits something that looks like random quotes 12:24:57 (fungot is a bot who normally responds when spoken of but seems to be offline right now) 12:24:57 oren: i don't know how to switch keyboard leds in c? _o. 12:25:09 ^rerere and fungot does other things as well 12:25:09 anadna dnf duf nufgnuogntog tod tod eodseo seo sto htoehtreh ret rht ihtnihgnisgn sga ssa saw sew lewllelll 12:25:20 oren: unignore it 12:25:31 anyway also i use dc at my work on a regular basis for calculating bitfields 12:26:21 does ed count as an esoteric language? 12:26:23 oren: i am surprised by brainfuck 12:26:23 ed the editor 12:26:24 I sometimes use dc to calculate stuff 12:26:37 so befunge-98, dc are both actually useful 12:26:38 izabera: I don't know, maybe TECO does instead? 12:27:19 zzo38: i wrote this yesterday to delete the trailing empty lines: ?.?+,$d is it esoteric? <.< 12:27:33 I don't know. 12:28:26 it's not turing complete... :C 12:28:29 Is it possible to make vim to not use the alternate screen buffer when it is in ex mode, and use alternate screen only for vi mode? 12:28:40 -!- oren has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:28:59 uhm why? 12:29:14 -!- oren has joined. 12:29:26 oren: fungot 12:29:26 izabera: why does. have a happy one then :) seems ok 12:29:46 hmm 12:29:54 Some things may be disputed and argue if it is esoteric programming, including dc and FurryScript and a few others? 12:30:16 wow there are a ton of these langs. are any actually suitable for making any manor of general purpose applications? 12:30:18 i dunno dc is pretty much line noise 12:30:39 Trioxin: befunge-98 definitely is 12:30:52 ^source 12:30:52 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 12:31:09 that's the source of fungot in befunge-98 12:31:09 oren: x1 x2 x3) instead of ( truncate 1.1) i want it 12:31:54 I still like dc for a kind of desk calculator I suppose like 12:32:05 Trioxin: well someone wrote an irc bot in brainfuck, not sure if that counts... https://github.com/SirCmpwn/bf-irc-bot/blob/master/irc-bot.bf 12:33:51 Yes, such things are possible. 12:34:00 lol befunge-98 looks like something already processed 12:34:17 or perl 12:35:49 well, I can say that this is the first time since I was 9 that I looked at a programming language and saw gibberish 12:36:00 Trioxin: it's a two-dimensional language with one-character commands. control flow proceeds across the text in any direction 12:36:11 did you ever saw malbolge code? 12:37:16 weirdness 12:37:49 there should be a category on the wiki for languages with file and network IO capabilities 12:37:53 Other ideas can be like befunge but different kind of geometry or different number of dimensions; there are some other multidimensional esolangs too 12:37:56 is funcitonnfeatured yet? 12:38:17 oren: Yes maybe it should be, in case of any ones. 12:38:41 funciton is a good one to feature 12:38:44 i actually came here after searching around considering a new programming paradigm to learn 12:38:59 well ... 12:39:06 do you know haskell? 12:39:13 out of curiosity. i don't think I would use any of these 12:39:22 no I don't know haskell 12:39:30 go learn it 12:39:37 why 12:39:58 another good one to learn is assembler 12:40:13 `? mips 12:40:14 MIPS Is Popular in Schools. 12:40:32 what about pips 12:40:36 I know 6502 assembly programming 12:41:08 i know enough nasm to actually write stuff 12:41:44 Do you know Forth programming? 12:41:50 x86 (outdated), AVR... 12:41:56 Do you know 6502 assembly language programming? 12:42:08 i've not seen funciton before 12:42:25 funciton id beautyful 12:42:35 I don't. I mean I've read a bit of code, but I need an instruction reference to do that. 12:42:36 i want to write a compiler for it 12:43:37 I use mostly procedural, oop, and some functional if you count c# and c++. I've been considering things like haskell, lisp, python. sometimes it's difficult to group languages into paradigms. some hybrid would be nice 12:43:52 well, oop doesn't have to be procedural 12:44:25 how the hell is c# or c++ functional? 12:44:50 also: rust is a nice serious language 12:44:51 c++11 is 12:45:08 nice? 12:45:17 oh, functional. 12:45:17 they have some functional attributes 12:45:43 template programming has been sort-of-functional all these years 12:45:53 ew 12:46:53 i thought a new paradigm or some hybrid might excite my imagination in machine learning applications 12:47:18 or help me write less code 12:48:03 how come haskell is much more popular than curry? 12:48:24 for instance functions/code being treated as a data type 12:48:41 i know there's always eval functions but still 12:48:48 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43867&oldid=43866 * SuperJedi224 * (+41) 12:49:02 Trioxin: prolog or lisp? 12:49:08 or easier ways of inference 12:49:16 [wiki] [[Loader]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43868&oldid=43867 * SuperJedi224 * (-41) 12:49:48 prolog seems a bit antiquated. lisp is old but still has a lot of contribution 12:49:54 and idk what to make of python 12:50:24 i tried to get into D but there's just not enough code out there to play with 12:50:38 I have used many different programming languages including BASIC, SQL, Forth, TI-92, and others including ones I invented by myself for various purposes 12:50:44 there is a saying in the rust channel 12:51:11 D is for C++ developers that like C++ and Rust is for C++ programmers that hate C++ 12:51:58 I prefer C 12:52:52 sometimes though, I yearn for the simple days of Visual Basic 6 12:53:16 I have used VB6 as well 12:53:22 dito 12:53:29 i didn't like it, though 12:53:30 it's interesting how everyone got by without libraries in the olden days 12:53:32 i always hated vb 12:53:50 the only nice thing about vb is the with keyword 12:54:16 they should make a IDE like VB for Python tk 12:54:38 and i do think the most hilarious one is "ON ERROR RESUME NEXT" 12:54:50 where you can drag and drop to create dialogues 12:55:32 that IDE made it simpler to write a GUI than a CLI 12:55:55 indeed 12:56:31 There's that generalised variant of "ON ERROR RESUME NEXT" where you register a segfault/etc handlers that just skip the faulting instruction, maybe setting some result registers to zero. 12:56:49 No more crashes. 12:57:13 these days I make cross platform programs in HTML5 (node-webkit) and do backend heavy lifting in native languages where necessary 12:57:27 Once (in year 2000 actually) I made a program in GWBASIC to allow making program in GWBASIC without line numbers, but you can add line labels into some lines. 12:57:40 But mostly these days I prefer to write program in C 12:58:00 that way I can port lots of code to mobile via cordova/phonegap 12:58:48 I generally write command-line programs though; they are generally better than GUI 12:59:10 command line is good. ncurses is better 12:59:14 i write a lot of CLI as well but mostly for server-side 12:59:29 That's why I wrote AmigaMML; I couldn't find any better program to make .MOD/.XM musics 12:59:40 server with command line and ncurses clients is best 13:00:16 i usually make web interfaces 13:00:25 though ncurses is cool 13:00:53 I prefer to use command-line for both server and clients (as well as the standalone programs which don't use a server and client, which would be most of them) 13:02:23 I'm talking about programs for consumers. i've only rolled one for sale that was CLI 13:02:34 for the client 13:03:05 for users the best option these days is indeed usually a web service, 13:03:36 yeah. even when I make a desktop app I always do most of the work server-side. no stealing 13:03:44 but only because Java is such a painful language to use 13:03:45 Wrappers with GUI or whatever can be done, but better computer programming design should be with command-line program in the general 13:04:09 no stealing... 13:04:09 and python/perl don't really work on windows 13:04:40 stops piracy 13:05:06 py works on windows 13:05:22 i don't code in it but i've seen windowing apps in it 13:05:24 Trioxin: how many people have python installed though 13:05:32 I prefer to make it local, it is faster, it can be use even if you do not have internet connection on that computer, and you can modify the program if needed to, and also privacy if that is also what you wanted 13:05:38 they don't have to have py installed 13:06:04 Some programs is useful to use by internet, such as email for example, but most don't 13:06:05 there are bundlers you could call compilers 13:06:17 oh? is there a .py compiler for win64 I don't know about 13:06:47 oh just a bundler. lame 13:07:03 there's a PHP compiler for .net 13:07:09 phalanger 13:07:19 PHP?!! NOOOOOOOOOO 13:07:48 PHP is cancer in the bones of the internet 13:08:12 php is fine these days whereas it used to be a disaster 13:08:28 I did write this IRC client in PHP, and also wrote FurryScript in PHP, but later may redo them in C possibly 13:09:07 oh it's fine... if you like horrible inconsistency and type autoconversions 13:09:31 a lot of languages have type casting 13:09:43 D even has it 13:09:44 type casting is one thing 13:09:58 autoconversions are something very different 13:09:58 Actually there is many bad thing with PHP; I don't like it much 13:10:06 auto somevar = "sfsdfs"; in D 13:10:42 there are some bad things but the security concerns of old are no longer present as far as I'm aware 13:10:51 I'm talking about when you pass a string to a function expecting a number, and it converts it 13:11:00 rather than throwing an error 13:11:13 that wouldn't happen 13:11:39 unless you did it wrong 13:12:03 PHIRC and FurryScript aren't even webapps (although FurryScript supports being wrapped with another PHP file that is used on a webpage) 13:12:07 treat it as a string, its a string 13:12:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:12:07 in php, $a == $b && $b == $c && $a != $c is possibly 13:13:00 Yup 13:13:12 At my previous job that could happen in prod 13:13:31 caused hard-to-find bugs 13:13:39 !== evaluates type 13:13:51 i know that 13:14:15 Trioxin: yes, the solution was to replace a lot of == and != with === and !== respectively 13:14:15 the question is: why is == and != even there? 13:14:40 the answer is of cojrse shitty legacy code 13:15:16 At least Perl has separate string and number compares, as does Bash 13:15:44 error_reporting(E_STRICT|E_ALL); 13:16:19 but I won't go far into defending php. it's useful to me though 13:16:39 oh it is useful 13:16:45 but horrible 13:17:05 https://blog.whitehatsec.com/magic-hashes/ -- I like the term "magic hash" 13:17:07 I prefer programming in C and SQL though, if it can be used 13:17:21 oren: Yes, I think so 13:17:35 I wrote the CGI code in my website in bash and C 13:18:42 WWW is a mess. 13:18:52 horrible is a bit of an overstatement depending on use-case. I've written thousands of lines in a project with no problems. Javascript seems to be expanding enormously to try to do everything now though and I find myself writing a lot of it. I still refuse to use node server-side though. 13:19:47 I find JavaScript is better programming language than PHP, although I don't like using it for webpages 13:19:52 which sounds terrible (writing desktop apps in javascript) but it's really not with things like webgl, webcl, webrtc 13:20:30 and like I said when I use nw.js if I need heavy lifting on the backend of the app just write some native code 13:21:14 javascript is better but still bad. the fact that you need all these libraries that get downloaded over and over again from every website is proof of crappiness 13:21:25 nothing is easier for a GUI. you basically make a responsive web site in the style of a program and you've got both a desktop and mobile app 13:22:16 oren, libraries downloaded over and over? 13:22:59 libraries are downloaded once with npm and executed locally 13:23:09 I generally prefer to make command-line program though; it is a much better way of working the computer, especially if it is the UNIX command-line rather than the Windows command-line. 13:23:15 yes. Jquery, jquery-ui, angular-js etc. each one, each programmer puts a minifd version of it on their own server, which is independent of the copied on every other server 13:24:00 [wiki] [[REGXY]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43869&oldid=41343 * 190.23.223.48 * (-19) The generated source code of the implementation reads form STDIN and prints to STDOUT. 13:24:22 so hundreds of identical jquery.min.js files end up being downloaded 13:24:47 which is why I use a javascript whitelist 13:25:09 that's the nature of using a library 13:25:13 no. 13:25:28 unless you want to blame the browser 13:25:40 the nature of using a library (in normal languages) is that the same .so file is used by many programs 13:25:53 (or .dll on windows) 13:25:57 Even with command-line program you can do the programs over the internet, such as with nc and curl and ssh 13:26:02 same goes for JS 13:26:53 download jquery, include in project, get's executed in implementation 13:27:26 I use sprunge for pastebin service since it can be use by command-line and doesn't need to use web-browser (although it can be used with web-browser too) 13:27:29 zzo38, I've done that before 13:27:31 but on the user's system, he has 50 jquery.min.js files in the broswer cache 13:28:22 oren, I suppose that's true and the fault of the browser if it isn't hashing the cache and reusing the files but I'm talking about JS for desktop and mobile apps 13:28:38 whereas he only has one, for example zlib.so 13:29:48 -!- tromp has joined. 13:29:59 Trioxin: if a user has several apps made by you, do you reuse the same jquery.js file for all of them 13:30:04 oren, that is one thing that I don't like about browser implementations of javascript. some libs are so used they should probably be distributed with the browser but the browser cache can be hashed as to not redownload the same files 13:30:15 Synchronet door programs can also be written in JavaScript (it also supports door programs written in DOS for compatibility) 13:31:14 ideally there should be a browser extension for chrome or mozilla that has a tag like <> 13:31:21 oren, I could do that 13:31:29 do I? no 13:31:47 Trioxin: No, the real problem is that webpages use a lot of JavaScripts and other stuff 13:32:07 would be extra coding for something of little consequence in terms of a desktop app 13:33:05