< 1440202926 926089 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43856 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+704) 10Created page with "'''Loader''' is an upcoming esolang by SuperJedi224, where recursive module loading is the principal mode of recursion and iteration. A load statement loads a module on a cop..." < 1440203365 964818 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43857&oldid=43856 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-24) 10 < 1440203913 438058 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43858&oldid=43857 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+346) 10 < 1440203934 342141 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43859&oldid=43858 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-36) 10 < 1440204128 98370 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43860&oldid=43859 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+16) 10 < 1440204234 559847 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43861&oldid=43860 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+62) 10 < 1440204323 715544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have time enough to drag you down to meet Nergal with me!!" < 1440204375 476084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that malack clearly expected to go to some afterlife. which means he didn't simply stop existing entirely. < 1440204380 477673 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43862&oldid=43861 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+4) 10/* Count down from 10 */ < 1440204450 549412 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43863&oldid=43862 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+121) 10/* Example Programs */ < 1440204466 567352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to another shocking prediction: he might show up to help durkon one last time. < 1440204524 87238 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43864&oldid=43863 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-127) 10 < 1440204747 627956 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The caps lock and num lock light on my computer is broken; how can I make it to display on the screen instead? < 1440204793 367041 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hezzo38. what kind of OS/WM/DE/GUI are you using? < 1440204795 370573 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is the program "xkbvleds" but I want to put in the status bar where it is displayed the time and system load < 1440204838 819805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am using OEM Ubuntu Linux, with i3-wm, a custom status bar program, and no desktop environment. < 1440204940 149032 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the sort of custom status bar program you can pipe in stuff from scripts. < 1440205007 101457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is; I wrote the C program to output the JSON data which i3 uses to display the status bar. < 1440205401 401153 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how can I put the keyboard status display on there? < 1440205643 700047 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode UPWARDS WHITE ARROW FROM BAR WITH HORIZONTAL BAR < 1440205656 549761 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1440205658 155313 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1440205664 964977 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mapoles HackEgo
< 1440205729 942597 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode U+21EC < 1440205730 780171 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⇬ < 1440205733 551126 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1440205738 813817 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode U+21ED < 1440205739 689208 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​⇭ < 1440205754 134261 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: something like that, or am I completely misunderstanding your problem? < 1440205783 604953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean how to put it on there. I can use ASCII characters just fine, I mean how to make it even display it there! < 1440205831 425893 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43865&oldid=43864 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-138) 10/* "Hello, World!" */ < 1440205972 333911 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's 'xset q' that you can grep for caps/num/scroll lock status? < 1440205998 590094 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels like there's some vital information he's not grasping at all
< 1440206201 404598 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope to do it without making it to execute other programs, because I want to do it per second, or preferably, when the key is pushed only. < 1440206258 542231 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightbulb! < 1440206333 279071 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/a/8429021 ? < 1440206817 816140 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440206892 181571 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 PRIVMSG #esoteric :please try joining #edtoast .I would greatly appreciate it < 1440206894 13027 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1440207027 695299 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CROISSANT CHICKEN < 1440207123 489032 :grotewold!~grotewold@c-68-50-42-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440207925 685840 :grotewold!~grotewold@c-68-50-42-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1440207985 450269 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1440207986 957569 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440208044 901983 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1440208331 850776 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440208386 666795 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :edtoast_46: i hope you're not advertising that everywhere or your channel may soon be ... you know what. < 1440208423 841664 :Leo1!~debian@189.217.81.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440208443 431796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's that swatter when you need it twh < 1440208455 542625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A SAFE PLACE < 1440208500 980649 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:2885:573f:6479:40f5 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1440208523 903664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you're around. is e spamming generally? < 1440208539 909630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm less around than I used to be. < 1440208548 474155 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I haven't seen them elsewhere. < 1440208553 214828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1440209487 801905 :Leo1!~debian@189.217.81.13 PART :#esoteric < 1440209668 206845 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1440209917 13181 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made up a simple kind of virtual machine and this is one example code that can be used with it: http://sprunge.us/SSbY < 1440211395 630110 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any valid regex that has no possible match? < 1440211417 655584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: depends on what regex operators you allow < 1440211451 477398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm inclined to say no if you're restricted to the usual set, because you can recursively build up a string that matches via taking the first possible option with each operator < 1440211460 114564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in various sorts of extended regexes it's easy < 1440211474 660139 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's start with the basics < 1440211477 962322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you have lookahead or lookbehind you can easily place two contradictory assertions on the same character < 1440211480 625015 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a|b) x* x+ x? x{a,b} < 1440211490 875399 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all such regexes have a match < 1440211498 339547 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1440211506 230928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace all x* and x? with the null string, x+ with x, x{a,b} with a copies of x, and (a|b) with a < 1440211516 126232 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1440211536 862364 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is $^ a valid regex? < 1440211551 406261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the regex parser, I think < 1440211569 665753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :many would allow "a^" with no matches < 1440211589 403058 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1440211764 474489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish regular expressions supported intersection and complement. < 1440211869 952731 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :your shell supports extended globs, they're a different flavour of regular expressions < 1440211928 801370 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :!(a|b) not a nor b @(a|b) a or b +(a) 1 or more a *(a) zero or more a ?(a) zero or one a < 1440211961 213954 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the complement of /ab/ expressed as a regex? < 1440211971 804984 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :!(ab) < 1440211993 460707 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not regex syntax. < 1440212004 356871 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry i misunderstood the question < 1440212021 30712 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no complement of /ab/ in the classic regex < 1440212028 285924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there is. < 1440212030 493538 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that lookahead thing < 1440212034 432700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just awkward to write it. < 1440212047 423808 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(?:ab)*$ something like this < 1440212065 63145 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not fancy Perl regex. < 1440212076 682996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I shouldn't say "sure". I think there most likely is. < 1440212078 708394 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no complement in BRE or ERE < 1440212089 756838 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/([^ab]|a[^b]|b)+/ < 1440212090 314231 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no operator, but you can manually compute the complement. < 1440212105 359785 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't count -_- < 1440212105 873829 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, or maybe < 1440212108 463929 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/([^ab]|a[^b]|b)*/ < 1440212121 366531 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you're allowing [^] < 1440212127 787341 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually simpler < 1440212130 632681 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do a character class containing every single character < 1440212132 326740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and negate it < 1440212134 255223 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/([^a]|a[^b])*/ < 1440212140 177818 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^] doesn't give you anything, does it? < 1440212142 311795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^\x0-\x{10ffff}] < 1440212157 259946 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're still talking about that. Yes. < 1440212161 436478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perl syntax, other regexes use slightly different escape syntaxes) < 1440212167 82296 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: doesn't match bla < 1440212170 338124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about /[]/ -- is that valid? < 1440212176 923595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is talking about the previous question. < 1440212186 695856 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/([^a]|a[^b])*a?/ < 1440212202 559579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of negating regexes, I believe it's always possible but often blows them up exponentially < 1440212218 592870 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah probably < 1440212221 755658 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof: convert regex to state machine; negate state machine (via swapping the success and failure states); convert state machine to regex < 1440212221 809972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might even be double-exponential. < 1440212229 7636 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1440212248 24921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, maybe just exponential. Not sure. < 1440212290 382153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is just exponential < 1440212304 571651 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the most basic case is /abcdef/ in which you have < 1440212321 673398 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^abcdef]|a[^bcdef].... < 1440212337 73583 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets way harder if the regex isn't anchored < 1440212350 633117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :try negating .*abc.* < 1440212368 37100 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this came up in #esoteric a few months/years ago, there were tons of attempts at it and they were nearly all wrong) < 1440212374 991997 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the same as /abc/ in terms of what matches? < 1440212389 574018 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1440212394 799242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just making the lack of anchors clearer < 1440212452 904164 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once tried to write a regex match function that didn't build a state machine < 1440212469 861204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :backtracking is easier to write than the state machine version < 1440212474 461328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less efficient worst-case < 1440212487 834760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :My regular expression was a full match. < 1440212493 485974 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no data structure at all < 1440212498 454657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That depends on the worst case. < 1440212516 308967 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it simply went character by character through the two strings < 1440212524 111648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which method is more efficient average-case < 1440212531 584298 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: how does it handle regexes like aab|aac? < 1440212535 657368 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backtracking can handle things like (([ab]{99}){99}){99} better, someone mentioned. < 1440212553 269928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Well, that's the same as the state machine approach. < 1440212560 108790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you have multiple "cursors" in the regex. < 1440212568 122805 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no only one < 1440212571 183969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you split when you see | and so on. < 1440212580 922748 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then it sounds like backtracking. :-) < 1440212604 253443 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah except way more inefficient than most implementations < 1440212606 169909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel like "backtracking vs. NFA" is a continuüm, not a choice of one of the other. < 1440212646 828923 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, correctly used diaeresis < 1440212723 168105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NFA approach to regular expressions is like dynamic programming. You have a graph that you walk one step in each time you see a character, but when two paths through the graph reach the same node, you collapse them. < 1440212749 997260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The backtracking approach keeps the full path, which means you can use backreferences and so on. < 1440212851 561752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe you can keep some amount of state associated with a node, but still not have it be the full path used to reach that node. < 1440212906 518272 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric : try negating .*abc.* <-- your approach (convert to state machine, negate, convert back) would work fine, wouldn't it? < 1440212922 510832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: yes, but it's really hard to do in your head < 1440212934 270392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not claiming it's impossible (it's definitely possible) < 1440212944 136916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that nearly all the attempts at it in practice get it wrong < 1440212946 417117 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sure < 1440212961 474323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I eventually came up with a correct solution, but after something like ten failures < 1440212980 645624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think regexes that support intersection and complement need an double-exponential number of states. < 1440212997 636934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to just exponential, for regregexes. < 1440213013 505676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DFA states, I mean.) < 1440213043 908931 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it would be so useful that I'm annoyed that there are hardly any implementations around. < 1440213058 527471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: regex inversion, or regex-to-DFA? < 1440213083 511553 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :regex-to-DFA < 1440213088 770737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if anyone's build a regex impl using yacc < 1440213095 342506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexes are a special case of context-free grammars, after all < 1440213097 834560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that (P&Q) is multiplicative rather than additive. < 1440213468 273709 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't P|Q also multiplicative, in the general case? (you mean in # of DFA states, right?) < 1440213613 481092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's additive in the number of NFA states. < 1440213694 849595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mauris < 1440213697 62137 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maur is the correct spelling < 1440213720 301615 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sure < 1440213742 873012 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that three lines ago too, help am i a robot?? < 1440213863 833972 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatedly i'm TAing a class on finite automata and regular expressions, and i get to come up with multiple choice questions for the exam! < 1440213883 682243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have multiple choice questions in .be? < 1440213894 688936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought those only existed here. < 1440213973 309989 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :super easy to grade, i guess < 1440213983 615642 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :("so easy a DFA could do it") < 1440214037 656532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: Does your class talk about how to implement intersection and complement efficiently? < 1440214244 59697 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: are you a deterministic finite robot < 1440214281 353014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Robots are deterministic finite Belgians that repeat themselves. Taneb invented them. < 1440214287 587785 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'robot': Robots are deterministic finite Belgians that repeat themselves. Taneb invented them. < 1440214310 689412 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you help meh? ;-; http://arin.ga/R4N7lx/raw why does this not match a(b|c)d ? < 1440214340 568528 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to match regex with regex < 1440214396 317254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: the regex language you're using is insufficiently powerful to nest parens < 1440214411 653422 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I already know that whatever you've come up with is wrong < 1440214430 923384 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the hint, i know that < 1440214444 101691 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't plan to match recursively only with regex < 1440214555 614242 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! i found it! < 1440214626 799901 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needed an extra group (\|x|y) -> (\|(x|y)) < 1440214628 875572 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever JOIN :#esoteric < 1440215387 657403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 20:46 -!- edtoast_46 [~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:9dbe:f358:9656:99fc] has joined #haskell < 1440215390 632087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1440215504 441352 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did e mention eir channel < 1440215529 475308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a different channel with a certain five-character substring hth < 1440215556 56591 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there =) < 1440215588 753259 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome dramforever < 1440215588 807550 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to design a code golf PL using Chinese characters < 1440215590 433982 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06dramforever: 13Welcome 04to 07the 08international 09hub 02for 06esoteric 13programming 04language 07design 08and 09deployment! 02For 06more 13information, 04check 07out 08our 09wiki: 02. 06(For 13the 04other 07kind 08of 09esoterica, 02try 06#esoteric 13on 04EFnet 07or 08DALnet.) < 1440215606 593190 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know there exists some < 1440215621 179497 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm kinda having fun reinvening the wheel < 1440215641 50544 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as long as you don't make it a round wheel, they're so old hat < 1440215653 375028 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1440215663 7589 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never heard of a round wheel being used as an old hat hthib < 1440215678 687565 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure some common unicode symbols + Chinese could beat APL easily < 1440215774 907755 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many characters are there? < 1440215807 631157 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, but surely a lot < 1440215818 909586 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make all operations one-char < 1440215819 784578 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> maxBound :: Char -- hth < 1440215821 487111 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\1114111' < 1440215883 623104 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_%28Unicode%29 wtf < 1440215886 613527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: apparently "wheel hat" is a disappointingly unrelated thing. < 1440216009 685485 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1440216025 105006 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so there are 1,114,112 valid characters < 1440216030 492424 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like the majority of the BMP is Unified CJK Han < 1440216078 86308 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese characters are so sophisticated that a character is basically a word < 1440216081 977910 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :build a huge lookup table with as many combiantions as possible of these: ><+-.,[] < 1440216117 841200 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: why don't you just code in brain***k and 7z your code or something < 1440216188 586713 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, there aren't 1114112 code points in Unicode. < 1440216223 965396 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 17 planes can accommodate 1,114,112 code points[...]" from that page < 1440216235 937279 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambdabot knows it < 1440216251 218840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they could, but they don't. < 1440216260 449213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every number between 0 and 1114111 corresponds to a code point. < 1440216323 221561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example 0xD800 - 0xDFFF < 1440216333 789949 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1440216345 341400 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440216389 66868 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring <.< < 1440216410 582874 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1440216436 227686 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever JOIN :#esoteric < 1440216458 325089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1440216508 918859 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:9dbe:f358:9656:99fc JOIN :#esoteric < 1440216541 62734 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:9dbe:f358:9656:99fc PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1440216553 27590 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:9dbe:f358:9656:99fc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join #ToastIRC Today < 1440216589 143482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it's our first -n spam < 1440216630 188864 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n? < 1440216642 949435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: channel mode that lets people not in the channel send to it < 1440216648 135793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(look at the timing of the part versus the message) < 1440216654 318626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the channel mode. < 1440216663 389364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a debate a while back about whether -n would increase the amount of spam we got < 1440216682 206583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :-n is great because it confuses you about whether HackEgo is in the channel. < 1440216692 664332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was months ago, this is the first spam we've got < 1440217190 793966 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Warning: nand2tetris spoilers) my assembly code could probably be clearer, maybe some newlines: http://pastie.org/private/lbxz7yz6d5fqe2kavpgq < 1440217205 479838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nan2dtetris has spoilers? < 1440217206 809887 :edtoast_46!~Brandon@2602:306:3876:370:9dbe:f358:9656:99fc JOIN :#esoteric < 1440217219 734734 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 > 1440217219 764807 NAMES :#esoteric < 1440217221 282736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric +b :edtoast_46!*@* > 1440217221 290416 NAMES :#esoteric < 1440217222 878873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 KICK #esoteric edtoast_46 :spammer < 1440217223 410323 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you consider project solutions to be spoilers < 1440217225 467521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 > 1440217225 475318 NAMES :#esoteric < 1440217260 173150 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arin.ga/DFEDo3/raw uhm can you try to run this? what am i doing wrong? in the second example i want to keep b\|c together < 1440217260 635119 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm...idris-bot is here < 1440217261 202768 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1440217271 82929 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :To run Idris code. < 1440217276 355564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe type-check it. < 1440217279 830333 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very...esoteric < 1440217284 572041 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440217330 66727 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels great so far
< 1440217336 815781 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this satan.spawn() function in the idris standard library < 1440217405 593296 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440217528 561623 :Froo!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440217590 450917 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1440217701 289891 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440217725 488667 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1440217802 734976 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440217838 446642 :Froo!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1440217866 98264 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1440217965 295070 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1440217994 777563 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1440218099 777235 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1440218138 92717 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440218497 809996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, there are all sorts of different types of grapes < 1440218556 88532 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1440218573 421297 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440218699 561845 :Froo!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440218851 925672 :grotewold!~grotewold@c-68-50-42-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440218879 604652 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440218883 116948 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1440218911 444533 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1440218928 604225 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440218948 112163 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1440219027 506519 :Froo!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1440219194 664534 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric : mauris: Does your class talk about how to implement intersection and complement efficiently? <-- sadly, no; it talks about making the DFAs you end up with efficient through state elimination but the algorithms to get there are all naive < 1440219229 632480 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to make ais523 ooh or aah, you can say naïve hth < 1440219534 765786 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440219644 719576 :Froox!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440219800 667542 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@c-73-170-31-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1440220535 85970 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: < 1440220550 315467 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to ask a wine-lover about grapes < 1440220579 396817 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently they make wine with grapes that taste like other fruit or something < 1440220811 800603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :These grapes taste like delicious grapes. < 1440220815 161624 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a kind of fruit? < 1440224427 414105 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You discuss whether -n would increase the amount of spam you got. Although you got the spam with the -n it still doesn't make much difference because they did join anyways! So, it is a bit strange kind of a example, kind of. < 1440224477 326935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's not the sort of -n spam I expected < 1440224484 400570 :Daniel01!~canaima@186-92-198-89.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440224487 340756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they joined, then parted, then sent the message < 1440224543 400562 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1440224574 826573 :anonymous777!~Home@c-68-38-30-50.hsd1.in.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440224579 464361 :Daniel01!~canaima@186-92-198-89.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1440224581 758335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how else would they know that the channel is -n? < 1440224594 18080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the MODE command < 1440224620 683786 :anonymous777!~Home@c-68-38-30-50.hsd1.in.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hola < 1440224644 645116 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no even #ToastIRC channel as far as I can see (MODE tells me no such channel) < 1440224686 886031 :Daniel01!~canaima@186-92-198-89.genericrev.cantv.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440224719 80325 :Daniel01!~canaima@186-92-198-89.genericrev.cantv.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aski < 1440224727 903156 :Daniel01!~canaima@186-92-198-89.genericrev.cantv.net PART :#esoteric < 1440224751 580486 :anonymous777!~Home@c-68-38-30-50.hsd1.in.comcast.net PART :#esoteric < 1440224768 791969 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ciao < 1440224770 12811 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :!list < 1440225895 830065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember: Make every program a filter! < 1440225963 182668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if i 'ardly know 'er? < 1440225974 210488 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a filter? < 1440226035 655726 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A UNIX-style-filter, where it uses stdin/stdout so you can use it with pipes and redirection and so on. < 1440226060 773712 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's your opinion of NetHack, in that respect? < 1440226061 494427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of modern programs don't, but ought to, in my opinion. < 1440226066 607761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes input from stdin and produces output on stdout < 1440226083 854104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it also uses other files of its own, and generates and loads save files < 1440226095 847838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if stdin (or maybe stdout?) is not a terminal it refuses to run < 1440226096 364240 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is reasonable to do that in that case, to use stdin/stdout and various files < 1440226110 489509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it ought to work even if they are not a terminal < 1440226119 624028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your opinion of programs that seek in stdin, or mmap it? < 1440226125 324886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you can use filters to make macros and character conversion and so on < 1440226148 735846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Normally it shouldn't, you should try to avoid it. But sometimes it seems like necessary anyways < 1440226212 903906 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you could just use a file and make a `...` to capture a temporary filename perhaps, in the command-line argument, then it won't be a problem to be seeked even if it is a pipe. < 1440226215 845261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that shells shouldn't have < and > < 1440226222 904207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, there should be commands to read from files and write to files. < 1440226232 717571 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, you could do it without; use cat to read and make another program to write < 1440226237 648569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's ready a command for reading from a file < 1440226239 22439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would use readfile f | filter | writefile g instead of filter < f > g < 1440226249 467834 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tee can be used to write to a file but it also copies output to stdout < 1440226251 652686 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't say there wasn't. < 1440226256 217372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, tee works. < 1440226263 641709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know, I'm trying to help you implement your idea < 1440226265 842389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of. < 1440226279 344906 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other issue is that going through a pipe can be inefficient. < 1440226284 161258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to solve that. < 1440226347 87167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are shell-builtins, that might solve it < 1440226356 915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point is that they aren't shell builtins. < 1440226373 181224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But maybe a different API would let you attach a file descriptor directly to a pipe. < 1440226421 867947 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know it isn't, but if they are just shell-builtin command called < and > then it can still be use with syntax of pipe to be consistent even though it isn't < 1440226423 661554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of revcat < 1440226433 108386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm not sure I ever got working < 1440226436 937153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it pipes its stdout to its stdin < 1440226441 502828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want it to be easy to write to the network and so on. < 1440226453 745834 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now bash implements TCP sockets as a shell builtin or something, which is ridiculous. < 1440226464 752882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do revcat < a.txt | revcat | revcat >> b.txt, and it copies b.txt to a.txt < 1440226478 139552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also write | tee (> nc ...) | ... in bash, or somehting along those lines. < 1440226479 627010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think bash implements TCP sockets as a fake device file < 1440226489 56326 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I meant. < 1440226496 256681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For TCP connect you could use netcat, it probably shouldn't be a shell built-in < 1440226497 321705 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Another command that writes stdin to a file is sponge. < 1440226513 269936 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think sponge does it delayed? Sometimes this is useful though < 1440226517 873788 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sponge's behavior should just be an option to the command that writes a file. And so should tee's behavior. < 1440226546 141089 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not so good if you want to write immediately, such as may be useful if you are writing to a device. < 1440226559 762064 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point of sponge is that it's delayed, because people rely on the shell when they don't want it delayed. < 1440226591 363247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /me looks at sponge < 1440226599 275824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some other interesting-looking programs in the same package < 1440226607 596352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, it is the point sometimes is useful for delayed but sometimes when it isn't. < 1440226624 858933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that package has all sorts of jams. < 1440226673 391418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sponge seems to be designed for atomic output < 1440226680 170730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the point of sponge. < 1440226691 789130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat file | sed ... | sponge file < 1440226831 355321 :aretecode!~aretecode@69.4.235.219 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1440226832 319593 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be useful for use with hamarc too I suppose, if you want to delete a lump from a Hamster archive for example < 1440226858 28843 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sponge is a terrible idea... < 1440226894 53668 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who invented cat apparently think that concatenating files is its main use and displaying them is secondary. < 1440226934 108610 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :x | y | z <- z starts writing when it receives EOF, which means that y is not writing anymore to the pipe, but x can still be active and doing stuff with that file < 1440226952 651530 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :be doing stuff* < 1440226972 270424 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think they are both primary (although the -v option still ought to be a separate program in my opinion) < 1440227004 42828 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The primary feature is to copy zero or more files, and possibly stdin, to stdout. < 1440227051 554892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Should grep mmap stdin if it's a file? < 1440227069 726882 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu grep used to mmap it < 1440227105 233228 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2010-August/019310.html < 1440227106 75841 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1440227250 529018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you think programs should check if stdout is a terminal and behave differently? < 1440227333 857042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Depends on the program I suppose, but even then probably there should be the way to override it (even if it is a different program which is used to override it; for example cat changes it into a non-terminal, and perhaps another program could be made to do the opposite) < 1440227938 667727 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many of my program I have written is filter, including "hamarc", "bamtovgm", "amigamml", "playmod", "xisynth", "utftovlq", and others. < 1440228003 166254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can even do a "echo | amigamml | playmod | aplay" pipeline in order to preview a .XI file, although the .XI already has to be in a (seekable) file for this to work.) < 1440228181 493811 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want also .NSF player that is acting as a filter program, but one program execute the .NSF and puts the register writes to stdout (although it still has to process some registers internally due to the .NSF program can read status of some registers), and another program will process the register write data into audio, and then you use a third program to output the audio to the speaker (or compress it into Vorbis or whatever). < 1440228817 553549 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-64-77.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1440228849 283045 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-64-77.access.telenet.be QUIT :Client Quit < 1440228932 216646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore you can replace the parts easily with other stuff, such as instead of rendering the register writes to audio you can make it convert to .VGM or speed up or slow down or transpose the music or replace the renderer with an experimental one or wire it to an actual Famicom cartridge or put a program that tries to make up a optimized .NSF that produces the same output, or something else. < 1440229160 916745 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also replace the first part with netcat or with the reverse conversion of .VGM or some other format, or to read MIDI input, etc. Even, the last part you can add special effects, write to a compressed file, etc < 1440229177 472466 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1440229614 892732 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? At least I believe it is good idea < 1440229647 414693 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about NSF or VGM formats. < 1440229812 618191 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NSF format is a file that contains a 6502 program to write registers for various sound chips used with Famicom. VGM is one format that is used to record the register writes for many different kind of sound chips. < 1440230676 368670 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1440231920 26025 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-2-39.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805] < 1440232228 432914 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-2-39.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1440232468 676568 :Walpurgisnacht!~ah@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440233104 427972 :Walpurgisnacht!~ah@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Waka flaka < 1440233122 277263 :zadock!~outsider@79.116.97.47 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440233230 897829 :Skin!~ah@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440233318 689402 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@37-219-2-39.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92-rdmsoft [XULRunner 35.0.1/20150122214805] < 1440233567 557234 :Skin!~ah@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Fuck me < 1440233593 935918 :Walpurgisnacht!~ah@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440233606 221508 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever JOIN :#esoteric < 1440233758 68242 :zadock!~outsider@79.116.97.47 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1440234504 399005 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1440234646 120928 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1440236632 933896 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/izabera/reggen/blob/master/reggen first attempt at regex parsing with regex... for those who said that it's not possible... < 1440236824 365478 :dramforever!~wang_rk@unaffiliated/dramforever QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1440237267 310385 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand :P < 1440237295 301595 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes a regex and prints a string that matches it < 1440237309 256720 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and who said that was impossible? < 1440237399 742436 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 | izabera: the regex language you're using is insufficiently powerful to nest parens < 1440237401 401163 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 | so I already know that whatever you've come up with is wrong < 1440237430 906614 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a different problem < 1440237436 875564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the difference is that you're running a regex in a loop, so it's not a regex any more? < 1440237454 554572 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1440237488 17636 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual way of writing down regular expressions is not a regular language < 1440237965 397947 :grotewold!~grotewold@c-68-50-42-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1440238113 773848 :Walpurgisnacht!~ah@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1440239275 999186 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1440239308 720636 :|f`-`|f!~rikc@108-65-78-116.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440240481 661748 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440240677 200301 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/the reals,/the reals, robots,/' wisdom/tanebventions < 1440240686 134180 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: can't read wisdom/tanebventions: No such file or directory < 1440240708 133050 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ls wisdom/*anebv* < 1440240709 42645 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/tanebvention < 1440240713 384930 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` sed -i 's/the reals,/the reals, robots,/' wisdom/tanebvention < 1440240715 812005 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1440240734 881626 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? robot < 1440240736 172407 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robots are deterministic finite Belgians that repeat themselves. Taneb invented them. < 1440241134 194749 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellint-ello. < 1440241147 307252 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I moved the tanebventions over to a new chapter. < 1440241448 605544 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the repo
< 1440243253 431163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1440243617 329806 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PANAMERICAN CHICKEN < 1440243838 129724 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo hi < 1440243838 914418 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1440243853 125604 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it allows arbitrary commands? :/ < 1440244022 426765 :nortti!nortti@ayu.smar.moe PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, but it's sandboxed and under version control < 1440244028 946310 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how it works yes (although there are limits and sandbox and so on) < 1440244054 952928 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of sandbox ooi < 1440244272 160121 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` uname -a < 1440244273 39943 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux < 1440245220 277659 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43866&oldid=43865 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-4) 10 < 1440245619 326752 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux puppypc1015 3.9.11 #1 SMP Sat Jul 27 19:40:54 GMT-8 2013 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux < 1440245636 522200 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit 4eva < 1440245682 556902 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least until purolator decides to deliver my damn computer < 1440245707 197024 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, but 4GB address space simply aren't enough. < 1440245723 867121 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine has only 2GB < 1440245752 37108 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the kernel takes between 0.5 and 2GB of that address space away for itself...) < 1440245810 197044 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if linux gets too bloated maybe I'll get minix or freebsd < 1440245819 928098 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit 4eva < 1440245875 583516 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I have no clue whether the freebsd kernel is bigger or smaller < 1440245924 30398 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to get gzip(5) manual page, or is only gzip(1) available? < 1440245981 603258 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440246040 179615 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying you want to know about the file format? < 1440246063 416840 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I would want the man page of the file format < 1440246080 295517 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell did i wind up here < 1440246102 184932 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.redblobgames.com/articles/visibility/ cool thingy < 1440246106 581802 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: a series of bad life choices < 1440246132 864299 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: Just because it does; that's all. < 1440246141 536215 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you wanted to write unnecessarily complex solutions to simple problems for the sake of fun? < 1440246142 154640 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could convert RFC 1952 to a manpage < 1440246155 835317 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so brainfuck stands at the pinnacle of these languages? < 1440246175 746103 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is too simple < 1440246204 411170 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which (if any) are actually useful? < 1440246219 889435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: Useful for what? That is what it need to depend on! < 1440246220 201626 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: are you useful? < 1440246220 304725 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ( i'm not familiar with the repl, but < 1440246223 752195 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck, befunge-98, dc, and funciton are my favorites < 1440246248 148547 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is written in befunge < 1440246248 456459 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: little kids should not be reached" etc. is that where your family is too?) and there i have to admit < 1440246269 145731 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just vomits random quotes <.< < 1440246269 905764 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: dc the calculator? < 1440246278 449858 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not quotes < 1440246283 740073 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of the time) < 1440246292 686033 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1440246292 740423 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool < 1440246295 807859 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it just vomits something that looks like random quotes < 1440246297 293317 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fungot is a bot who normally responds when spoken of but seems to be offline right now) < 1440246297 499313 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: i don't know how to switch keyboard leds in c? _o. < 1440246309 509646 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rerere and fungot does other things as well < 1440246309 612523 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anadna dnf duf nufgnuogntog tod tod eodseo seo sto htoehtreh ret rht ihtnihgnisgn sga ssa saw sew lewllelll < 1440246320 264714 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: unignore it < 1440246331 705592 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway also i use dc at my work on a regular basis for calculating bitfields < 1440246381 216705 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ed count as an esoteric language? < 1440246383 570171 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: i am surprised by brainfuck < 1440246383 624493 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed the editor < 1440246384 188806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use dc to calculate stuff < 1440246397 648730 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so befunge-98, dc are both actually useful < 1440246398 103162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I don't know, maybe TECO does instead? < 1440246439 791588 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i wrote this yesterday to delete the trailing empty lines: ?.?+,$d is it esoteric? <.< < 1440246453 198636 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1440246506 468306 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not turing complete... :C < 1440246509 135671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to make vim to not use the alternate screen buffer when it is in ex mode, and use alternate screen only for vi mode? < 1440246520 435361 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1440246539 728677 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm why? < 1440246554 245556 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1440246566 127486 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: fungot < 1440246566 230184 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: why does. have a happy one then :) seems ok < 1440246586 421597 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1440246594 867148 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things may be disputed and argue if it is esoteric programming, including dc and FurryScript and a few others? < 1440246616 706692 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow there are a ton of these langs. are any actually suitable for making any manor of general purpose applications? < 1440246618 667609 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno dc is pretty much line noise < 1440246639 153027 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: befunge-98 definitely is < 1440246652 865965 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1440246652 920249 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 < 1440246669 47437 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the source of fungot in befunge-98 < 1440246669 255600 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: x1 x2 x3) instead of ( truncate 1.1) i want it < 1440246714 638161 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like dc for a kind of desk calculator I suppose like < 1440246725 76153 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: well someone wrote an irc bot in brainfuck, not sure if that counts... https://github.com/SirCmpwn/bf-irc-bot/blob/master/irc-bot.bf < 1440246831 369043 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, such things are possible. < 1440246840 530800 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol befunge-98 looks like something already processed < 1440246857 115075 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perl < 1440246949 362335 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I can say that this is the first time since I was 9 that I looked at a programming language and saw gibberish < 1440246960 818756 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: it's a two-dimensional language with one-character commands. control flow proceeds across the text in any direction < 1440246971 569618 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ever saw malbolge code? < 1440247036 639377 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weirdness < 1440247069 617902 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a category on the wiki for languages with file and network IO capabilities < 1440247073 82302 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other ideas can be like befunge but different kind of geometry or different number of dimensions; there are some other multidimensional esolangs too < 1440247076 660776 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is funcitonnfeatured yet? < 1440247097 135320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Yes maybe it should be, in case of any ones. < 1440247121 500362 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funciton is a good one to feature < 1440247124 801779 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually came here after searching around considering a new programming paradigm to learn < 1440247139 205918 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ... < 1440247146 300779 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know haskell? < 1440247153 830123 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of curiosity. i don't think I would use any of these < 1440247162 81312 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't know haskell < 1440247170 367679 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go learn it < 1440247177 626392 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1440247198 897310 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good one to learn is assembler < 1440247213 342004 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? mips < 1440247214 996180 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIPS Is Popular in Schools. < 1440247232 979817 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about pips < 1440247236 34973 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know 6502 assembly programming < 1440247268 440135 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know enough nasm to actually write stuff < 1440247304 406046 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know Forth programming? < 1440247310 398420 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 (outdated), AVR... < 1440247316 771211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know 6502 assembly language programming? < 1440247328 655525 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've not seen funciton before < 1440247345 64858 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funciton id beautyful < 1440247355 18297 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. I mean I've read a bit of code, but I need an instruction reference to do that. < 1440247356 335311 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to write a compiler for it < 1440247417 154210 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use mostly procedural, oop, and some functional if you count c# and c++. I've been considering things like haskell, lisp, python. sometimes it's difficult to group languages into paradigms. some hybrid would be nice < 1440247432 686656 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, oop doesn't have to be procedural < 1440247465 952543 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell is c# or c++ functional? < 1440247490 186459 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: rust is a nice serious language < 1440247491 574568 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++11 is < 1440247508 380695 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice? < 1440247517 748873 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, functional. < 1440247517 852312 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have some functional attributes < 1440247543 280109 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :template programming has been sort-of-functional all these years < 1440247553 400785 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1440247613 100883 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought a new paradigm or some hybrid might excite my imagination in machine learning applications < 1440247638 996864 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or help me write less code < 1440247683 959603 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come haskell is much more popular than curry? < 1440247704 935344 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance functions/code being treated as a data type < 1440247721 417093 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know there's always eval functions but still < 1440247728 598853 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43867&oldid=43866 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+41) 10 < 1440247742 834023 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: prolog or lisp? < 1440247748 961672 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or easier ways of inference < 1440247756 175191 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Loader14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43868&oldid=43867 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (-41) 10 < 1440247788 559533 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog seems a bit antiquated. lisp is old but still has a lot of contribution < 1440247794 214242 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and idk what to make of python < 1440247824 163458 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried to get into D but there's just not enough code out there to play with < 1440247838 709968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used many different programming languages including BASIC, SQL, Forth, TI-92, and others including ones I invented by myself for various purposes < 1440247844 856825 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a saying in the rust channel < 1440247871 711733 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is for C++ developers that like C++ and Rust is for C++ programmers that hate C++ < 1440247918 941925 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer C < 1440247972 18231 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes though, I yearn for the simple days of Visual Basic 6 < 1440247996 32981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used VB6 as well < 1440248002 42723 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dito < 1440248009 929868 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't like it, though < 1440248010 406633 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting how everyone got by without libraries in the olden days < 1440248012 794532 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always hated vb < 1440248030 389518 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only nice thing about vb is the with keyword < 1440248056 425568 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should make a IDE like VB for Python tk < 1440248078 589807 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do think the most hilarious one is "ON ERROR RESUME NEXT" < 1440248090 254456 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can drag and drop to create dialogues < 1440248132 569578 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that IDE made it simpler to write a GUI than a CLI < 1440248155 884326 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1440248191 806053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that generalised variant of "ON ERROR RESUME NEXT" where you register a segfault/etc handlers that just skip the faulting instruction, maybe setting some result registers to zero. < 1440248209 662353 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No more crashes. < 1440248233 616184 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I make cross platform programs in HTML5 (node-webkit) and do backend heavy lifting in native languages where necessary < 1440248247 811761 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once (in year 2000 actually) I made a program in GWBASIC to allow making program in GWBASIC without line numbers, but you can add line labels into some lines. < 1440248260 595666 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mostly these days I prefer to write program in C < 1440248280 618060 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way I can port lots of code to mobile via cordova/phonegap < 1440248328 537439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally write command-line programs though; they are generally better than GUI < 1440248350 516876 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :command line is good. ncurses is better < 1440248354 265618 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i write a lot of CLI as well but mostly for server-side < 1440248369 673683 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I wrote AmigaMML; I couldn't find any better program to make .MOD/.XM musics < 1440248380 177187 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :server with command line and ncurses clients is best < 1440248416 887465 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually make web interfaces < 1440248425 218614 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though ncurses is cool < 1440248453 791133 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to use command-line for both server and clients (as well as the standalone programs which don't use a server and client, which would be most of them) < 1440248543 248509 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about programs for consumers. i've only rolled one for sale that was CLI < 1440248554 662400 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the client < 1440248585 656904 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for users the best option these days is indeed usually a web service, < 1440248616 819768 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. even when I make a desktop app I always do most of the work server-side. no stealing < 1440248624 861536 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only because Java is such a painful language to use < 1440248625 67633 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrappers with GUI or whatever can be done, but better computer programming design should be with command-line program in the general < 1440248649 675323 :ashl!~ash@185.83.217.70 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no stealing... < 1440248649 985638 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and python/perl don't really work on windows < 1440248680 556233 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stops piracy < 1440248706 777673 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :py works on windows < 1440248722 242929 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't code in it but i've seen windowing apps in it < 1440248724 671109 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: how many people have python installed though < 1440248732 601907 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to make it local, it is faster, it can be use even if you do not have internet connection on that computer, and you can modify the program if needed to, and also privacy if that is also what you wanted < 1440248738 169636 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't have to have py installed < 1440248764 668358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs is useful to use by internet, such as email for example, but most don't < 1440248765 230053 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are bundlers you could call compilers < 1440248777 327980 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? is there a .py compiler for win64 I don't know about < 1440248807 193142 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just a bundler. lame < 1440248823 427054 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a PHP compiler for .net < 1440248829 750779 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :phalanger < 1440248839 845425 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP?!! NOOOOOOOOOO < 1440248868 718355 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP is cancer in the bones of the internet < 1440248892 67682 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :php is fine these days whereas it used to be a disaster < 1440248908 306380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did write this IRC client in PHP, and also wrote FurryScript in PHP, but later may redo them in C possibly < 1440248947 688554 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's fine... if you like horrible inconsistency and type autoconversions < 1440248971 878473 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of languages have type casting < 1440248983 808108 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D even has it < 1440248984 945358 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :type casting is one thing < 1440248998 34472 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconversions are something very different < 1440248998 408839 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually there is many bad thing with PHP; I don't like it much < 1440249006 777782 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto somevar = "sfsdfs"; in D < 1440249042 860263 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some bad things but the security concerns of old are no longer present as far as I'm aware < 1440249051 944734 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about when you pass a string to a function expecting a number, and it converts it < 1440249060 765242 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than throwing an error < 1440249073 352372 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't happen < 1440249099 633474 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you did it wrong < 1440249123 360659 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHIRC and FurryScript aren't even webapps (although FurryScript supports being wrapped with another PHP file that is used on a webpage) < 1440249127 120732 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :treat it as a string, its a string < 1440249127 224670 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1440249127 430048 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in php, $a == $b && $b == $c && $a != $c is possibly < 1440249180 275421 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1440249192 902026 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At my previous job that could happen in prod < 1440249211 532425 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :caused hard-to-find bugs < 1440249219 352326 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :!== evaluates type < 1440249231 337349 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1440249255 39427 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: yes, the solution was to replace a lot of == and != with === and !== respectively < 1440249255 699090 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is: why is == and != even there? < 1440249280 30359 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is of cojrse shitty legacy code < 1440249316 220585 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Perl has separate string and number compares, as does Bash < 1440249344 65372 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :error_reporting(E_STRICT|E_ALL); < 1440249379 263969 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I won't go far into defending php. it's useful to me though < 1440249399 324439 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is useful < 1440249405 55766 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but horrible < 1440249425 540871 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://blog.whitehatsec.com/magic-hashes/ -- I like the term "magic hash" < 1440249427 965316 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer programming in C and SQL though, if it can be used < 1440249441 985072 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Yes, I think so < 1440249455 940312 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote the CGI code in my website in bash and C < 1440249522 8132 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :WWW is a mess. < 1440249532 26225 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible is a bit of an overstatement depending on use-case. I've written thousands of lines in a project with no problems. Javascript seems to be expanding enormously to try to do everything now though and I find myself writing a lot of it. I still refuse to use node server-side though. < 1440249587 690849 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find JavaScript is better programming language than PHP, although I don't like using it for webpages < 1440249592 42636 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sounds terrible (writing desktop apps in javascript) but it's really not with things like webgl, webcl, webrtc < 1440249630 834084 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like I said when I use nw.js if I need heavy lifting on the backend of the app just write some native code < 1440249674 520373 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript is better but still bad. the fact that you need all these libraries that get downloaded over and over again from every website is proof of crappiness < 1440249685 910566 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing is easier for a GUI. you basically make a responsive web site in the style of a program and you've got both a desktop and mobile app < 1440249736 236249 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, libraries downloaded over and over? < 1440249779 242930 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :libraries are downloaded once with npm and executed locally < 1440249789 339167 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally prefer to make command-line program though; it is a much better way of working the computer, especially if it is the UNIX command-line rather than the Windows command-line. < 1440249795 730918 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. Jquery, jquery-ui, angular-js etc. each one, each programmer puts a minifd version of it on their own server, which is independent of the copied on every other server < 1440249840 891738 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07REGXY14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43869&oldid=41343 5* 03190.23.223.48 5* (-19) 10The generated source code of the implementation reads form STDIN and prints to STDOUT. < 1440249862 440087 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hundreds of identical jquery.min.js files end up being downloaded < 1440249887 273516 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I use a javascript whitelist < 1440249909 54638 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the nature of using a library < 1440249913 268006 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1440249928 962124 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want to blame the browser < 1440249940 650993 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of using a library (in normal languages) is that the same .so file is used by many programs < 1440249953 297812 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or .dll on windows) < 1440249957 908039 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with command-line program you can do the programs over the internet, such as with nc and curl and ssh < 1440249962 742253 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for JS < 1440250013 774860 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :download jquery, include in project, get's executed in implementation < 1440250046 450280 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use sprunge for pastebin service since it can be use by command-line and doesn't need to use web-browser (although it can be used with web-browser too) < 1440250049 693039 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I've done that before < 1440250051 387583 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the user's system, he has 50 jquery.min.js files in the broswer cache < 1440250102 139492 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, I suppose that's true and the fault of the browser if it isn't hashing the cache and reusing the files but I'm talking about JS for desktop and mobile apps < 1440250118 778981 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas he only has one, for example zlib.so < 1440250188 682023 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1440250199 101767 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: if a user has several apps made by you, do you reuse the same jquery.js file for all of them < 1440250204 549065 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, that is one thing that I don't like about browser implementations of javascript. some libs are so used they should probably be distributed with the browser but the browser cache can be hashed as to not redownload the same files < 1440250215 525756 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Synchronet door programs can also be written in JavaScript (it also supports door programs written in DOS for compatibility) < 1440250274 360723 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally there should be a browser extension for chrome or mozilla that has a tag like <> < 1440250281 226527 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren, I could do that < 1440250289 354193 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I? no < 1440250307 322126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trioxin: No, the real problem is that webpages use a lot of JavaScripts and other stuff < 1440250327 69290 :Trioxin!~Trioxin@72-28-181-085-dhcp.aik.sc.atlanticbb.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be extra coding for something of little consequence in terms of a desktop app < 1440250385 121251 :oren!~oren@65.94.102.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :