←2015-08-15 2015-08-16 2015-08-17→ ↑2015 ↑all
00:02:34 <tswett> So I'm wondering...
00:04:14 <tswett> Which convex 38-hedron, with only triangular and quadrilateral faces, has the smallest number of symmetry orbits for its faces, besides the 19-gonal bipyramid?
00:15:05 <tswett> Y'see, I'm thinking of ways to make a d38.
00:15:38 <tswett> This is definitely the leading contender for the shape: http://www-wales.ch.cam.ac.uk/~wales/CCD/Thomson/gif/38.gif
00:16:58 <tswett> But that consists entirely of hexagons and pentagons. I'd like a shape that has faces with fewer edges, while still having few face symmetry orbits.
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00:19:15 <boily> tswellott. you'd like to build a d38 with only one kind of face?
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00:25:25 <tswett> The only way to do that is by making a top-shaped die. I want a ball-shaped one instead, so I'll have to settle for having multiple kinds of faces.
00:32:31 <tswett> Let's see. I want to come up with a 38-hedron which is as symmetrical as possible and has as few vertices as possible.
00:32:59 <tswett> I find the dual problem easier to visualize: coming up with a polyhedron with 38 vertices, which is as symmetrical as possible and has as few faces as possible.
00:34:17 <tswett> I should probably start by figuring out what kind of symmetry I want.
00:42:38 <hppavilion[1]> And you aren't OK with a barrel die?
00:42:46 <tswett> Nope.
00:42:50 <tswett> It must be ball-shaped.
00:42:54 <hppavilion[1]> Is this just a thought experiment or does it have a practical application
00:42:56 <hppavilion[1]> ?
00:42:58 <\oren\> Why use dice at all? use a RNG
00:43:17 <hppavilion[1]> Agreed
00:43:24 <hppavilion[1]> Why are there slashes in your name now?
00:43:43 <\oren\> because someone else already registered the nick oren
00:43:49 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
00:43:51 <hppavilion[1]> Wait
00:43:52 <hppavilion[1]> What?
00:43:56 -!- \oren\ has changed nick to oren.
00:44:08 <hppavilion[1]> You could always use a pyramid-shaped die with a rounded bottom :P
00:44:13 <oren> Well they aren't logged in right now whoever they are
00:44:19 <hppavilion[1]> That's rougly circular in my mind xD
00:44:45 <hppavilion[1]> Quick, oren! Build a machine with the soul purpose of cracking IRC NickServ passwords!
00:45:39 <hppavilion[1]> Or is it sole?
00:45:41 <hppavilion[1]> I forget
00:45:54 <tswett> The practical application is that it will be impressive.
00:46:26 <hppavilion[1]> True
00:46:31 <hppavilion[1]> And to you need to geometrically prove that it is the optimal die?
00:47:03 <hppavilion[1]> I'd like to see a D&D Cassino...
00:47:15 <Hoolootwo> take a sphere, and cut 38 faces evenly distributed along a great circle. It will roll until it lands on one
00:47:26 <hppavilion[1]> I have never actually played D&D xD
00:47:47 <oren> I ahve played D&D exactly twice
00:47:53 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: That's pretty ballular
00:48:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hoolootwo: And if you make the sides triangles, that gives you a total of...
00:48:23 * hppavilion[1] mumbles to himself and messes with his hands for a moment
00:48:39 <hppavilion[1]> 114 vertices
00:49:09 <tswett> It doesn't need to be optimal, but I want it to be pretty good.
00:49:18 <hppavilion[1]> Assuming a sphere has 1 as opposed to infinitely many as a layman might think
00:49:23 <hppavilion[1]> Fuckin' laymen...
00:49:31 <tswett> The number of vertices of a sphere?
00:49:33 <hppavilion[1]> Taking our jobs
00:49:36 <hppavilion[1]> Stealing our women
00:49:42 <Hoolootwo> it really depends on what you classify as optimal
00:49:53 <tswett> Hmm... yes, I think I'd say a sphere has one vertex, no edges, and one face.
00:50:21 <tswett> Well, I guess you could either demand that there be a vertex or not.
00:50:24 <Hoolootwo> for the purposes of dice, it has none of those features
00:50:25 <hppavilion[1]> What's a smart, creative, programmer with an enthusiasm for strangeness gotta do to keep his standard a' livin' now-a-days
00:50:34 <hppavilion[1]> ?
00:50:41 <hppavilion[1]> Can't forget the question mark :p
00:50:46 <hppavilion[1]> s/p/P/
00:50:58 <tswett> Wait, lemme think about that sphere thing.
00:51:20 <tswett> What's that formula. Edges = vertices + faces + 2?
00:51:23 <hppavilion[1]> A sphere has not vertices, as far as I can tell
00:51:35 <hppavilion[1]> I think it's something like that
00:51:36 <tswett> No, how about edges = vertices + faces - 2?
00:51:47 <hppavilion[1]> Though I think that only applies to polyhedra
00:51:58 <Hoolootwo> yeah spheres really don't count
00:52:03 * hppavilion[1] picks up his magic, perfect sphere from beside his bed and investigates it
00:52:03 <hppavilion[1]> Yep
00:52:06 <hppavilion[1]> No verticees
00:52:10 <hppavilion[1]> s/ee/e/
00:52:23 <tswett> Now, I think a sphere definitely has no edges and one face. So the formula would be 0 = vertices + 1 - 2.
00:52:41 <tswett> One vertex, if you want a sphere to be like a polyhedron.
00:52:44 <Hoolootwo> well it depends on what you call a face
00:53:00 <Hoolootwo> I would classify round things as not faces
00:53:08 <hppavilion[1]> Agreed
00:53:10 <Hoolootwo> because dice aren't supposed to land on round things
00:53:14 <hppavilion[1]> #geometrybitches
00:53:41 <tswett> Anyway, what was I doing.
00:54:15 <tswett> Apparently this shape has 38 vertices: http://www-wales.ch.cam.ac.uk/~wales/CCD/Thomson/gif/21.gif
00:54:20 <hppavilion[1]> I believe you were attempting to square the circle
00:54:26 <tswett> Well... it's likely to have 38 vertices.
00:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> And later, you were planning on doubling the cube
00:54:33 <tswett> And 21 faces.
00:54:53 <tswett> Of course, doubling the cube has a much lower impossibility level than squaring the circle.
00:54:59 <hppavilion[1]> Treu
00:55:00 <hppavilion[1]> *True
00:55:44 <hppavilion[1]> And you were planning to finish trisecting the angle in the morning
00:55:45 <tswett> But I can't see the entire shape at the link there.
00:56:20 <Hoolootwo> you can see enough of it though
00:56:32 <tswett> Looking at the shape and extrapolating, it seems like it has eight hexagons and twelve pentagons.
00:56:44 <hppavilion[1]> Then, of course, dealing with cubes again, you were going to octuple one
00:56:44 <tswett> But that's only 20 faces. It definitely has 21 faces, so there must be an extra face somewhere.
00:57:21 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, even you doubted the possiblity of that
00:58:02 <tswett> Maybe one of the edges is replaced with a quadrilateral. (Rectangle, even.)
00:58:05 <Hoolootwo> is the information available to construct that gif?
00:58:39 <tswett> Yeah. Got something that'll render an XYZ file?
00:59:12 <tswett> The shape-it-seems-to-be has 20 faces and 36 vertices. Replacing an edge with a quadrilateral will turn that into 21 faces and 38 vertices.
00:59:18 <Hoolootwo> one of my screensavers will iirc
00:59:25 <boily> tswett: http://threejs.org/editor/
00:59:49 <tswett> boily: will that take XYZ files?
00:59:54 <Hoolootwo> no
00:59:54 <boily> I think so.
01:00:02 <Hoolootwo> at least not this xyz
01:00:03 <boily> it doesn't? bleh :/
01:00:12 <hppavilion[1]> Nope.
01:01:10 <hppavilion[1]> The only video-like files I ever use are .QΠØs
01:01:41 <tswett> Let's see. Maybe I can have a dual polyhedron consisting entirely of pentagons, hexagons, and vertices with exactly 3 edges.
01:02:33 <boily> hppavilion[1]: what kind of unholy file extension is that?
01:02:48 <hppavilion[1]> I've seen unholier
01:02:51 <oerjan> oren: Last seen : Sep 01 08:19:40 2014 (49w 5d 16h ago)
01:02:54 <tswett> 38 vertices means 57 edges, so... 57 = 38 + faces - 2, so faces = 57 - 38 + 2, or... 21?
01:03:00 <tswett> 9 hexagons, 12 pentagons?
01:03:02 <oerjan> you can take over that nick if you want
01:03:12 <tswett> Hmm. That could be workable.
01:03:21 <oerjan> that's _way_ over the expiry limit
01:03:42 <hppavilion[1]> The Catholic Church's standard file extensions consist of a CJK character, an Emoji, and a 8x8 px 4-frame GIF file
01:04:45 <hppavilion[1]> The time duration of the GIF matters to the file extension
01:04:49 <hppavilion[1]> Still think mine is that unholy?
01:04:57 <hppavilion[1]> boily?
01:05:21 <Hoolootwo> hmm I'm not even sure that file contains the edges
01:05:59 <tswett> I think it doesn't.
01:06:07 <tswett> You'd have to add those manually.
01:06:11 <tswett> Or add those automatically, if you can.
01:06:39 <hppavilion[1]> So one of the things I'm working on is a program to do geometry for people
01:06:41 <boily> Holy fungot in the Heavenly Bit Bucket, please have mercy on hppavilion[1]'s soul, amen(1).
01:06:41 <fungot> boily: fnord fnord fnord. fnord
01:07:18 <hppavilion[1]> Anyone want to add an easter egg where if you enter some code, it starts doing Sacred Geometry to troll the New Agers?
01:07:57 <tswett> I might be able to make this thing work, here. If I want 3-fold rotational symmetry, I can do that by putting vertices at the poles. Then I'll have 3 lunes, each containing 3 hexagons and 4 pentagons.
01:08:56 <tswett> I could also have symmetry across the equator, meaning I have 6 half-lunes, each containing 1.5 hexagons and 2 pentagons.
01:09:40 <boily> hppavilion[1]: please note that fungot is sentient enough by itself to evolve that feature. fnord.
01:09:40 <fungot> boily: true geeks will also celebrate 2048, of course
01:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> boily: True
01:12:12 <hppavilion[1]> Just thinking about implementing that program gives me a headache
01:12:38 <Hoolootwo> what about a snub cube?
01:13:46 <Hoolootwo> seems like that would be better than whatever that thing was
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01:14:33 <tswett> Hoolootwo: ...dude, that's wonderful.
01:14:36 <tswett> I love it.
01:15:12 <tswett> It's frickin' perfect.
01:17:55 <tswett> Wonderful, wonderful.
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01:21:50 <fowl> Congrats
01:21:52 <boily> why would snubbing cubes be useful? aren't we meant to like polyhedra, instead of rejecting them?
01:22:03 <boily> fellowl!
01:26:05 <tswett> I am very enthusiastic about this snub cube.
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02:32:42 <oren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elongated_pentagonal_gyrocupolarotunda
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02:44:34 <oren> Is it correct to say that every fair die should be the dual to a uniform polyhedron?
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02:47:03 <oren> I think because the above implies that the centres of each face are sort of equally spaced
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03:12:48 <zzo38> I play and record Dungeons&Dragons game. But, the d10 dice is not the Platonic solid
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03:19:12 <zzo38> I have added the solo channel mode into playmod but will then add other stuff too such as support for .XI files
03:26:08 <oren> the d10 is the dual to the 10-antiprism
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10:14:00 <int-e> why does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finitary_operation refer to "Garbage in, garbage out"...
10:17:51 <ashl> i... have no idea
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15:00:37 <oren_> mroing
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15:08:50 <ashl> ehlo
15:14:02 <myname> syn
15:14:10 <ashl> 200 OK
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15:17:03 <ashl> i can't believe how much memory it takes to link the chromium binary
15:28:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43738&oldid=43398 * Rdebath * (+13883) Add whitespace
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17:29:07 <tswett> oren_: I think fair dice only have to be dual to a vertex-transitive polyhedron, i.e. fair dice have to be face-transitive.
17:32:08 <Phantom__Hoover> i think henry segerman has a series of videos where he shows every possible face-transitive die
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17:58:40 <oren_> tswett: Hmmm... yah that makes sense
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18:38:17 <oren> idea: a wargame where the game world is a poincare disk
18:40:03 <oren> er, i guess the game world is a hyperbolic plane. the VIEW on the game world is a poincare disk
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18:40:18 <oren> hi variable
18:40:29 <variable> oren: hi
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19:49:45 <quintopia> oren: so its hyperrogue but an RTS instead?
19:52:50 <oren> yeah
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20:07:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Sacchan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43739&oldid=39904 * Sacchan * (-89)
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20:28:56 <oerjan> <oren> idea: a wargame where the game world is a poincare disk <-- hm, exponentially growing empires...
20:31:03 <Phantom__Hoover> how do you actually store hyperbolic space on a computer
20:31:26 <oerjan> lazy graph?
20:31:30 <Phantom__Hoover> there's no native equivalent of cartesian coordinates, after all
20:31:42 <oerjan> there are tilings...
20:32:51 <oerjan> hm are there fractal - no, _reverse_ fractal ones?
20:32:54 <Phantom__Hoover> yeah i guess. but then you're taking a massive overhead
20:33:05 <oren> use 3d points on a hyperboloid?
20:33:23 <oerjan> oh right, there's embeddings into R^3
20:34:22 <Phantom__Hoover> there are embeddings into r^2 surely
20:34:27 <Phantom__Hoover> no isometries though
20:34:35 <oerjan> well true, e.g. the poincare disk mentioned
20:34:40 <Taneb> Windows on SSD and Linux on HDD or other way round
20:35:04 <Phantom__Hoover> the hyperboloid method works pretty well i guess in that you have an easy metric to compute
20:35:19 <coppro> Taneb: depends, what are you using them for?
20:35:27 <coppro> or why not both on one?
20:36:42 <Taneb> coppro, Windows mostly for gaming and when I need to run Windows only software, Linux for browsing internet and programming
20:36:47 <oren> both OS on ssd, put your mutable data on the HDD
20:38:05 <Taneb> That's effort
20:38:07 <oren> the good thing about the hyperboloid model is you can use the lorentz transforms
20:38:53 <coppro> Taneb: also probably your best bet
20:39:05 <coppro> is your machine UEFI?
20:39:10 <Taneb> I don't think so
20:39:10 <coppro> you can avoid a lot of futzing with bootloaders if so
20:39:14 <Taneb> Second hand machine
20:39:16 <coppro> ahh
20:39:32 <Taneb> https://gist.github.com/alanbriolat/e2e3e5f4969840d18bae is some info if it helps
20:41:36 <Taneb> What counts a mutable data
20:41:51 <fizzie> The spec tab of the motherboard link on that page does say "ASUS UEFI BIOS EZ Mode featuring friendly graphics user interface".
20:41:57 <Taneb> OK
20:42:02 <Taneb> So I guess I have UEFI
20:42:37 <fizzie> You'll probably need to fiddle around in the "BIOS" setup page to turn it on.
20:43:27 <zzo38> A command such as echo $'#EXTENDED\n#DIVISIONS 32\n@0="COSMO.xi"\nA @0c1\n' | amigamml | playmod f=44100 c=1 b=16 v=190 | aplay -r 44100 -c 1 -t raw -f S16_LE can be used to play back a .XI file, although I try to make playmod to directly play back .XI file too if possible
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20:44:26 <zzo38> Although currently it does not work.
20:44:51 <zzo38> (I mean playmod currently does not play back .XI file; the long piped command does work, but it requires AmigaMML, clearly)
20:45:14 <fizzie> And when I was last installing a Windows, it was kind of picky about what sort of installation media you could do an UEFI install from.
20:45:53 <Taneb> ALEA IACTA EST
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20:47:08 <fizzie> I suppose if you can boot whatever you're trying to install it from with the boot settings set to "UEFI only", it's likely to work.
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22:13:55 * Sgeo wonders if the Prismata campaign has improved/become more tutorially lately
22:14:02 * Sgeo goes to look
22:17:23 <shachaf> You already know how to play, don't know?
22:17:26 <shachaf> you
22:18:27 <Sgeo> I know the mechanics, or did. Not really how to play well
22:20:13 <shachaf> We should jam when I get back home.
22:20:36 <Sgeo> I haven't played in a long time, I'm sure you only improved. I think we can already declare you the winner
22:20:41 <Sgeo> But ok
22:21:10 <shachaf> I only play against the computer.
22:38:23 <shachaf> Sgeo: ready to jam?
22:38:44 <Sgeo> Not if it takes more than 20 minutes, I usually head out to eat 7 eastern
22:38:57 <shachaf> We can set it to a quick clock.
22:39:35 <Sgeo> Ok
22:39:58 <Sgeo> Which will make me lose even harder, but we can play again after I eat
22:41:17 <shachaf> OK, I'll admit that opening move was suboptimal.
22:42:25 -!- lleu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
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22:50:42 <Sgeo> gg
22:50:45 <Sgeo> I was horrible
22:57:11 <zzo38> Do you like this example of how amigamml and playmod programs are working? I don't know of any similar programs for dealing with tracker music formats!
22:57:20 <shachaf> Sgeo: Usually people start out by building something that generates gold.
22:57:32 <shachaf> I suppose you consider yourself exempt.
22:58:11 <Sgeo> shachaf, engineers help build drones to generate gold, or did you mean something else?
22:58:30 <shachaf> Well, your first turn you just clicked all your drones and did nothing.
22:58:42 <shachaf> Usually you would QDD or something.
22:59:11 <Sgeo> shachaf, I consider myself as having barely remembered a thing
22:59:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tripl3dogdare * New user account
22:59:35 <shachaf> OK.
22:59:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MagiStack]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43740 * Tripl3dogdare * (+4172) Created page with "'''MagiStack''' is a [[stack]]-based [[esoteric programming language]] created by Connor Scialdone. It is based loosely on Unefunge (a one-dimensional offshoot of [[Befunge]])..."
22:59:54 <shachaf> I was really just talking about your name, though.
23:03:11 <Sgeo> I don't get it
23:05:20 <shachaf> I might be confused.
23:08:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43741&oldid=43740 * Tripl3dogdare * (+39)
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23:27:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43742&oldid=43741 * Tripl3dogdare * (+110)
23:28:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43743&oldid=43736 * Tripl3dogdare * (+16) /* M */
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23:42:47 <izabera> https://github.com/lukego/blog cool idea
23:49:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lhooq]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43744&oldid=36245 * Tripl3dogdare * (+28)
23:49:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lhooq]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43745&oldid=43744 * Tripl3dogdare * (+2)
23:49:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lhooq]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43746&oldid=43745 * Tripl3dogdare * (-30)
23:55:45 <Phantom__Hoover> `quote prose
23:55:56 <HackEgo> 1137) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
23:56:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MagiStack]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43747&oldid=43742 * Tripl3dogdare * (-7)
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