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00:09:43 <Phantom_Hoover> @metar EGPH
00:09:43 <lambdabot> EGPH 292350Z VRB02KT 9999 BKN025 BKN049 11/10 Q1015
00:09:51 <Phantom_Hoover> these are airport codes right
00:10:43 <oerjan> yes
00:11:18 <oerjan> i see edinburgh named its airport after you
00:12:13 <oren> is a person from edinburgh a edinburgher?
00:12:49 <Phantom_Hoover> probably, idk
00:13:14 <oerjan> they were until hamburg got a global treaty forbidding it hth
00:18:35 <boily> EGPH?
00:18:58 <boily> Phellontom_Helloover. you moved?
00:23:46 <oerjan> clearly he was aiming for a sunny holiday with his family but missed horribly
00:30:07 <boily> meanwhile, just stumbled on an englishless wikipédia article: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-core
00:33:11 <Phantom_Hoover> wha? i've always been egph haven't i
00:34:07 <Phantom_Hoover> along with KSFO and KHAF it's the only ICAO i know
00:35:17 <boily> oh. mislocated you. sorry, my bad hth
00:38:33 <zzo38> The Xlib documentation does not seem to explain very well how to make a picture
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00:53:03 <boily> @tell InputUsername pfeuh. not a valid reason. we're waiting for you to come back.
00:53:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:54:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Langar.io]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43655&oldid=43653 * InputUsername * (+12) Fixed GitHub link
00:57:04 <oerjan> 3 AM and the night is still young
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01:04:01 <boily> helleu helleu helleu ♪
01:12:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43656 * Hppavilion1 * (+1691) Created Page, utterly incomplete, more to come.
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01:13:11 <hppavilion[1]> Hi
01:13:20 <boily> helloppavilion[1]!
01:16:58 <hppavilion[1]> I'm writing BF#
01:17:08 <hppavilion[1]> Because surprisingly, no one else has yet
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01:32:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43657&oldid=43656 * Hppavilion1 * (+787) Added more commands (Still WIP)
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02:40:21 <oerjan> @tell edwardk i saw this post https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/2015-July/026061.html i feel like you are pointing out the real elephant in the room for getting _any_ nontrivial (i.e. not just syntactic sugar) GHC extension standardized by this point...
02:40:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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02:50:53 <Walpurgisnacht> Smells like lemons
02:53:25 <tswett> So I know more or less how to find a ratio of integers that most closely approximates an irrational ratio.
02:53:45 <tswett> Now I wanna know: how do you find a ratio of integers that most closely approximates an irrational ratio of *three* numbers?
02:53:53 <oerjan> wat
02:54:12 <tswett> Like, for example, the ratio 2:3:5 is a pretty good approximation to the ratio 2.1:3.1:5.1.
02:54:22 <oerjan> I GOT NOTHING
02:54:35 <tswett> 100:314:272 is a good approximation to 1:pi:e. Get what I'm saying?
02:54:46 <tswett> Okay, fine.
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02:55:09 <tswett> Given three positive numbers a, b, c, I want to multiply them all by some constant k, such that ka, kb, and kc are all close to integers.
02:55:12 <tswett> But I also want k to be small.
02:55:36 <tswett> How can I find the best values of k?
02:56:25 <tswett> Yet another statement...
02:57:10 <tswett> I know of a line in 3-dimensional space which passes through the origin. How do I find lattice points which are close to the line, but also close to the origin?
02:58:32 <Walpurgisnacht> You've confused me
03:00:02 <oerjan> i'm not sure that's a line
03:00:36 <tswett> The line traced by (ka, kb, kc) as k varies? That's a line.
03:00:49 <oerjan> hm...
03:01:14 <coppro> tswett: define a fitness metric and then do an optimization problem on it?
03:01:23 <oerjan> but you also want k to be integer
03:01:32 <tswett> k doesn't need to be an integer.
03:01:51 <oerjan> oh hm
03:01:57 <oerjan> fine
03:02:06 <tswett> I guess given a candidate lattice point, the error can be represented as a vector. It's just the displacement between the lattice point and the closest point on the line.
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03:03:11 <tswett> The space of all possible error vectors is 2-dimensional.
03:04:42 <tswett> So if you have a bunch of candidate lattice points, you know all their error vectors. If you have two error vectors of approximately the same length pointing in approximately opposite directions, you can add the lattice points together, and the error vector will just be the sum of the error vectors.
03:13:58 <zzo38> What is the algorithm to figure out the smallest way to encode a picture in Sixel format?
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03:25:56 <oerjan> HackEgone
03:26:22 <shachaf> good one
03:26:47 <oerjan> it's, alas, derivative
03:26:56 <shachaf> of what
03:27:06 <oerjan> fungone
03:27:32 <shachaf> ah
03:27:33 <oerjan> fungot: you stay right where you are, ok?
03:27:33 <fungot> oerjan: but it will suck, it's inevitable. :p like i heard last night there was someone asking about currying in scheme
03:28:06 <oerjan> fungot: well you can move about a bit, just not run off
03:28:06 <fungot> oerjan: specifically page 6 of that pdf. funny as hell. i totally misread that homepage.
03:28:22 <oerjan> fungot: link plz
03:28:22 <fungot> oerjan: it is a difference if you provide something that's as powerful as c, so essentially, the same way
03:29:30 <shachaf> fungot seems unusually lucid today
03:29:31 <fungot> shachaf: it is memoized, and then pointers. it'd need to be able to tweak every bit of performance out if i get out
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03:31:58 <shachaf> `wisdom
03:32:09 <oerjan> >_>
03:32:27 <shachaf> oh, right
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03:39:39 <tswett> Aha, I have discovered the ULTIMATE MICROTUNING.
03:39:43 <tswett> 848 equal temperament.
03:43:00 <tswett> An octave is exactly 848 steps. A perfect fifth is 496.048 steps, and a major third is 272.995 steps.
03:43:19 <shachaf> What happened to cents?
03:43:24 <shachaf> 1200 cents per octave.
03:43:30 <tswett> These are better. Let me demonstrate.
03:44:13 <tswett> A perfect fifth is 701.955 cents, and a major third is 386.314 cents.
03:44:17 <shachaf> `` factor 848
03:44:17 <shachaf> 848: 2 2 2 2 53
03:44:43 <tswett> So cents do a poor job of representing intervals as almost-integers.
03:45:35 <tswett> If you round everything to the nearest integer, then one major third is 386 cents, whereas two major thirds is 773 cents. How horrible!
03:45:47 <shachaf> Oh, that's what you were asking about ratios for.
03:46:04 <shachaf> But why stop at fifths and thirds?
03:46:34 <tswett> Because my ears are 5-limit.
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03:47:13 <tswett> With 848 equal temperament, you'd have to stick eleven perfect fifths on top of each other in order to find something for which rounding error is significant.
03:47:52 <coppro> erm
03:53:29 <tswett> Yes?
03:53:40 <coppro> that's all
03:54:25 <shachaf> http://ktla.com/2015/07/29/after-20-years-naugles-is-back-in-southern-california/
03:54:30 <shachaf> Naugles is making a comeback.
03:54:42 <shachaf> If you're in the area, please report. twh
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05:40:41 <Walpurgisnacht> https://causecatyljan.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/image.jpg
05:40:56 <Walpurgisnacht> old posters
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06:25:12 <zzo38> How do you draw a picture with Xlib? What I tried doesn't work; the screen is blank
06:50:02 <zzo38> Now I got a segmentation fault
06:50:48 <zzo38> O, it is work now
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07:04:58 <hppavilion[42]> Hello, zzo38~!@#$%^&*()
07:08:00 <zzo38> Hello
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07:26:13 <zzo38> Now I managed to make a PNG displaying program with Xlib, although it might not be as portable as it should be
07:26:19 <zzo38> It is much faster than ImageMagick though.
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07:52:06 <myname> what about sxiv?
07:53:06 <zzo38> That one I don't know.
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07:55:09 <zzo38> I looked it up with "aptitude show" command. Then use Imlib2, it seem like
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07:55:57 <zzo38> My own program is using LodePNG to load the picture, and then I have to change the pixels from RGB to BGR order in order to display it correctly on X (I don't know how portable this is though).
08:02:26 <izabera> ulam(1) = 1     ulam(2) = 2     ulam(n) = minimum number > ulam(n-1) that can be expressed as the sum of two distinct ulam numbers in exactly one way
08:02:39 <izabera> can you find an algorithm to print the first n ulam numbers in O(n) ?
08:04:48 <izabera> the best i have is O(n^2)
08:12:04 <myname> oeis doesn't look that way
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08:36:50 <zzo38> I thought of another way to represent a list of natural numbers as a single natural number
08:42:28 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: is your method based on a recursive invocation of pair primitives or not?
08:45:01 <zzo38> Not
08:45:41 <zzo38> My method is bijective though
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09:28:25 <mroman> Somebody in kentucky shot down a drone.
09:28:29 <mroman> Neat.
09:30:54 <mroman> although somewhat dangerous.
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09:37:14 <hppavilion[1]> So
09:38:22 <fizzie> mroman: http://www.loweringthebar.net/2015/07/trespassing-drone.html too.
09:38:41 <fizzie> [[ In a one-sentence order, the local small-claims court held that the man "acted unreasonably" when he directed his son to blow the drone out of the sky with a 12-gauge (which his son promptly did). ]]
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09:44:50 <mroman> fizzie: I can see that it is trespassing of some sort
09:44:56 <mroman> but you can't really do anything about it.
09:45:07 <mroman> because shooting it with a gun is really unreasonable
09:45:28 <mroman> although it is not very likely but bullets falling down can cause damage
09:45:47 <mroman> if you shoot it more elliptically then that likelihood increases a lot.
09:46:30 <mroman> and I mean... it's up to x-feet that belongs to your "privacy zone"
09:46:42 <mroman> drones could just fly higher and have cameras with good optical zoom 
09:47:32 <mroman> the most reasonable thing would be to ban flying drones with cameras and/or microphones
09:47:45 <mroman> without an explicit permit
09:48:04 <mroman> and put a huge fine on offenders
09:48:17 <mroman> because it's going to be hard to track them :D
09:52:43 <Jafet> Perhaps we should broadcast no-trespassing signs from WiFi access points.
09:52:59 <mroman> and that would do what?
09:55:48 <Jafet> About as much as a camera drone ban, I suppose.
09:56:03 <mroman> not quite
09:56:21 <mroman> if you ban them you have legal "pressure"
09:56:46 <mroman> just because a law is hard to enforce isn't a reason not to have it
10:12:58 <Jafet> Or just apply the same rules as for manned aircraft -- restriction to airways and ATC instructions.
10:27:31 <izabera> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/37438/generate-ulam-numbers  i found this and the perl solution is much more readable than most of the others
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10:36:22 <fizzie> "Reason for rollback: rolling back rollback."
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10:42:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * SwaggerMan *  New user account
10:54:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43658 * SwaggerMan * (+309) Created page with "'''Hi! im working on an [[Esoteric programming language|esoteric programming language]] called ''Pythagoras+''! which is a brainfuck-based language!''' {| class="wikitable" |-..."
10:55:56 <Jafet> HackEghost.
10:56:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43659&oldid=43658 * SwaggerMan * (+67) 
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11:00:12 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH!
11:00:44 <boily> I want the old original ugly design! my bank site has no right being all web2.0y!
11:01:04 <boily> now I'm lost. I want disgusting, horrendous and FUNCTIONAL design.
11:03:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43660&oldid=43659 * SwaggerMan * (+6050) 
11:03:54 <mroman> hey boily
11:04:01 <mroman> 1990 CALLED!
11:04:12 <mroman> THEY WANT YOU BACK.
11:04:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43661&oldid=43660 * SwaggerMan * (+26) 
11:07:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43662&oldid=43661 * SwaggerMan * (+1) /* Pythagoras+ */
11:11:28 <myname> brainfuck based :/
11:11:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43663&oldid=43662 * SwaggerMan * (+42) /* Hello, World! in Pythagoras+ */
11:12:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43664&oldid=43663 * SwaggerMan * (+17) /* Pythagoras+ */
11:12:50 <myname> such a useless language
11:13:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:SwaggerMan]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43665&oldid=43664 * SwaggerMan * (+1) 
11:14:33 <mroman> yeah
11:14:34 <mroman> :(
11:15:04 <mroman> and "working on" means "i'll whip it up in 15 minutes"
11:15:07 <mroman> if even 15 minutes
11:16:49 <boily> mrelloman. the 90s had at least one redeeming point: computers had TURBO buttons on them!
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11:20:21 <Jafet> This century has no need for encabulated computers.
11:22:27 <mroman> yeah.
11:22:33 <mroman> I've always wondered what the TURBO button did
11:23:09 <mroman> oh. ok
11:23:14 <mroman> for games that rely on cycle times
11:23:48 <Phantom_Hoover> iirc it slows the cpu down
11:24:27 <Jafet> In the future, perhaps 144Hz monitors will have turbo buttons on them.
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11:37:25 <fizzie> My 386sx/16 had a software-based TURBO switch.
11:37:45 <fizzie> There was a .com file you ran which twiddled some nonstandard I/O ports to switch between 8 MHz and 16 MHz modes.
11:38:02 <fizzie> Almost like cpufreq stuff these days.
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11:40:57 <Jafet> I prefer the opposite effect to TURBO, Turbo Boost.
11:41:20 <fizzie> Also it wasn't any garden-variety 386, it was a "Hyundai Super-386SE".
11:42:19 <fizzie> Had a hard disk so large (40 MB!), I had to split it to two partitions.
11:46:49 <mroman> you could just interleave the .com file with nop instructions
11:46:56 <mroman> possibly
11:47:04 <mroman> if you adjust for jumps accordingly
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14:53:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:InputUsername]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43666&oldid=43650 * InputUsername * (-20) Updated user page
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15:48:42 <shachaf> Taneb: how did your lens talk go twh
15:48:53 <Taneb> Decently I think
15:49:04 <Taneb> Other than misspelling Laarhoven
15:50:48 <shachaf> twen won't be happy when to hear that
15:51:03 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
15:52:02 <shachaf> swat of the oerjan, governor?
15:52:18 <oerjan> i'd switch out a vowel but it doesn't matter in hebrew anyway
15:52:30 <oerjan> also, what's the reference
15:53:14 <oerjan> i fail at googling it again
15:53:30 <shachaf> hey, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13786158/shachaf.png is gone :'(
15:54:07 <oerjan> your disguise has been destroyed!
15:55:09 <oerjan> don't worry, i can still find it on stackoverflow
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15:57:06 <shachaf> Find what?
15:57:19 <oerjan> the picture i'm assuming was on that link
15:57:37 <shachaf> Where?
15:58:00 <oerjan> http://stackoverflow.com/users/712548/shachaf
15:58:04 <shachaf> That link was the self-portrait monqy drew of me.
15:58:11 <shachaf> With Bonzi Buddy.
15:58:16 <oerjan> oh?
15:58:23 <shachaf> You never saw that?
15:58:33 <oerjan> hm if so i've forgotten
15:58:48 <shachaf> It was really good.
15:59:09 <shachaf> I wonder whether mnoqy still has a copy I could get hold of somehow.
16:02:18 <Taneb> oerjan, I was writing slides offline and misremembered Twan's surname as Leerhoven
16:02:35 <Taneb> So I'd like to retroactively intercept that swat
16:04:17 * oerjan swats Taneb radioactively -----###
16:04:54 <oerjan> what a Tanoob
16:07:50 <shachaf> Taneb: i believe the swat was for the joke and not for the mistake
16:08:42 <shachaf> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2015-July/024642.html tdnh
16:09:09 <Taneb> iirc there is a racetrack or something called Haskell
16:09:10 <shachaf> I guess that email is about http://bigstory.ap.org/article/fc3188c26a544a0ab7a5da7e6b4d477a/american-pharoah-race-monmouth-park-haskell
16:09:18 <Taneb> As well as a university and a rugby player
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16:11:24 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
16:11:24 <lambdabot> KOAK 301553Z 30006KT 10SM OVC009 18/14 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP173 T01780144
16:17:41 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
16:17:41 <lambdabot> ENVA 301550Z 28012KT 9999 VCSH FEW025 BKN039 12/08 Q1004 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 28016KT
16:17:52 <int-e> @metar LOWI
16:17:52 <lambdabot> LOWI 301550Z VRB02KT 9999 SCT035 BKN050 17/12 Q1016 NOSIG
16:18:36 <int-e> @metar EDDT
16:18:37 <lambdabot> EDDT 301550Z 29010KT 250V320 9999 FEW048 SCT075 BKN094 18/07 Q1011 TEMPO 29015G25KT
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17:09:51 <hppavilion[1]> hi
17:14:49 <zzo38> I can tell you how I represent the list of natural numbers as a single natural number. From right to left, you make the bits of the number: First the bijective base-2 but use only clear bits, and then one set bit, and then the bijective base-2 with clear bits for 1 and set bits for 2. And then you put the rest of the list (if any).
17:15:25 <zzo38> Is this correct?
17:16:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SwaggerMan]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43667 * Hppavilion1 * (+250) Recommended moving Pythagoras+
17:16:34 <hppavilion[1]> I have no clue
17:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making a shell...
17:17:42 <hppavilion[1]> In a language called Scratch
17:17:45 <hppavilion[1]> Because challenge
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17:35:34 <mauris> zzo38: looks correct to me
17:35:59 -!- InputUsername has joined.
17:36:01 <mauris> that's a confusing way to explain it, though
17:43:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43668&oldid=43657 * Hppavilion1 * (+3466) Wrote instruction pages and some minor new instructions.
17:44:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43669&oldid=43668 * Hppavilion1 * (-20) Fixed formatting (whoops)
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17:52:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck Sharp]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43670&oldid=43669 * Hppavilion1 * (+797) Procedures
17:52:32 <hppavilion[1]> Hi variable 
17:52:45 <variable> hppavilion[1]: hi
17:52:51 <variable> can I change for you?
17:52:53 <hppavilion[1]> :_
17:53:00 <hppavilion[1]> *:)
17:53:04 <hppavilion[1]> No need to
17:53:13 -!- variable has changed nick to constant.
17:53:15 <constant> ok, good
17:53:20 <hppavilion[1]> Excellent
17:53:24 <hppavilion[1]> Say, what's your value?
17:53:43 <hppavilion[1]> And what's your NAME even!?
17:54:06 <hppavilion[1]> We know you're a data storage system, but you give us NO clue as to how we should retrieve you
17:54:15 <int-e> constants don't really need names, do they...
17:54:28 <constant> hppavilion[1]: my value is nil
17:54:35 <hppavilion[1]> OK
17:54:40 <constant> but really, I'm a mutable constant
17:54:46 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah
17:54:50 <hppavilion[1]> We heard :P
17:54:51 <constant> so no promises that it will remain 
17:56:09 <hppavilion[1]> Would you happen to know of or have any ideas for esoteric algorithms or data structures?
17:57:51 <int-e> constant: sounds like an implementation-defined value to me
17:57:58 <hppavilion[1]> Or perhaps data-types?
17:58:47 <int-e> . o O ( binomial skip trie )
17:58:51 <constant> hppavilion[1]: a probabilistic sorting algorithm: 1/3 of the time in order; 1/3 of the time reverse order; 1/3 of the time random
17:59:16 <hppavilion[1]> That's more of an output of an algorithm than an algorithm itself...
17:59:31 <constant> hppavilion[1]: stackalgorithm
17:59:41 <hppavilion[1]> OK
17:59:42 <constant> search stackoverflow for "algorithm"
17:59:43 <hppavilion[1]> Wait what?
17:59:46 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
17:59:55 <constant> run it on first google result for "hippo"
18:00:00 <constant> and see what result is
18:00:17 <constant> I have more ideas if you want to hear them
18:00:20 <constant> I only have good ideas
18:00:43 <hppavilion[1]> :P
18:01:09 <hppavilion[1]> A) I can't see any algorithms to run it on
18:01:10 <int-e> but it's always the same one?
18:01:17 <hppavilion[1]> B) I don't use google, I use Duck Duck Go
18:01:30 <hppavilion[1]> C) What int-e said. Won't we have different first Google results?
18:01:41 <int-e> . o O ( "Duck! is what you say when you invoke the spell, not a material component." )
18:01:56 <constant> anyways, now to continue to trying to get swi-prolog isntalled on el capitan
18:01:59 * constant dies
18:02:09 <int-e> sounds... fun?
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18:02:30 <constant> int-e: fixing apple's system headers? no
18:02:32 -!- _256Q has quit (Changing host).
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18:02:34 <int-e> Oh Apple.
18:02:47 * int-e had to $searchengine el capitan...
18:02:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:WASD]]  http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43671&oldid=34406 * Hppavilion1 * (+127) /* Purpose */ new section
18:02:58 <int-e> stupid codenames
18:03:05 <constant> int-e: normally I run FreeBSD
18:03:10 <constant> but I have an apple for travel
18:03:16 <constant> my work machine is heavy :\
18:03:20 <int-e> ssh home
18:03:33 <constant> int-e: I do do that
18:03:36 <constant> but latency atm
18:03:52 <constant> anyways
18:03:53 * constant away
18:03:55 <int-e> (haha, only serious)
18:05:00 <hppavilion[1]> YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY I'm not the only one with trouble installing programs on machines. OS-wise
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18:16:39 <shachaf> `wisdom
18:17:07 <shachaf> grr, can't trust tab completion
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18:22:57 <int-e> fungot: lalala
18:22:57 <fungot> int-e: an award for that indentation
18:23:01 <hppavilion[1]> Hi ais523!
18:23:07 <int-e> ^style
18:23:07 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
18:23:29 <ais523> hi hppavilion[1]
18:23:47 <hppavilion[1]> :)
18:25:45 <tswett> I agree with fungot. int-es indentation was incredible.
18:25:46 <fungot> tswett: yes, a very silly way: by implementing another turing machine in it. :)
18:26:13 <tswett> I mean, the way that int-e interpreted another Turing machine in the indentation? It was very silly, but incredible.
18:26:21 <tswett> s/interpreted/implemented/
18:26:30 <tswett> Anyway...
18:26:44 <int-e> yeah, I'm amazing... wait, what happened here?
18:26:54 * int-e blames fungot.
18:26:54 <fungot> int-e: its ban time!!! eheheheheeheheheh the guy
18:27:22 <int-e> eery.
18:27:27 <tswett> Isn't there someone here that was working on a way of doing exact real computation of some kind?
18:28:28 <hppavilion[1]> What would be a weird data structure to base a filesystem around?
18:28:55 <tswett> Like, using something—I feel like it might have been similar to continued fractions or something—that can represent a lot of different real numbers exactly.
18:28:55 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, I guess an exposed linked list would be weird
18:29:01 <hppavilion[1]> But not weird enough
18:29:03 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: a queue would be pretty weird.
18:29:07 <hppavilion[1]> True
18:29:13 <tswett> There are only two operations: "create a new file" and "read the oldest file and delete it".
18:29:14 <hppavilion[1]> But I'm going for something REALLY weird
18:29:25 <tswett> Something *really* weird, you say?
18:29:28 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
18:29:39 <hppavilion[1]> What's the weirdest data structure you serve here?
18:29:47 <tswett> Here's an idea.
18:29:53 <hppavilion[1]> I'm listening
18:30:14 <tswett> The filesystem is a polynomial. You create a file by multiplying the polynomial by (x - a), for some constant a. You delete a file by dividing by (x - a).
18:30:33 <tswett> In order to get a list of all files, all you have to do is solve the polynomial.
18:30:34 <hppavilion[1]> Interesting
18:31:55 <tswett> Ooh, and here's another idea.
18:31:59 <tswett> The "canyon filesystem".
18:32:04 <tswett> It's similar to the queue filesystem.
18:32:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric Operating System/File System]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43672 * Hppavilion1 * (+198) Created Page
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18:32:37 <hppavilion[1]> Go on
18:32:55 <tswett> The canyon filesystem has two lines carrying analog signals, one for input and the other for output.
18:33:00 <hppavilion[1]> OK
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18:33:57 <tswett> When you put some input in, you eventually get the same input out, except—just like shouting into a canyon—echo and/or reverberation (and/or frequency filtering et/or cetera) are applied.
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18:36:07 <tswett> So if you just try to store data as an arbitrary analog signal without any processing, and you try to store data long-term by repeatedly feeding it back into the canyon, it'll get more and more distorted.
18:36:48 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps we use an And-Or tree? It's usually used for representing probems...
18:36:52 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And%E2%80%93or_tree
18:37:03 <hppavilion[1]> But that's a good idea too
18:37:29 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parent_pointer_tree
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18:39:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric Operating System/File System]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43673&oldid=43672 * Hppavilion1 * (+62) Noted EsoDSes
18:42:33 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose we could go for something less esoteric and just use a multidimensional Python-style array
18:43:47 <hppavilion[1]> So a file path might be:
18:44:50 <hppavilion[1]> Disk:/Column,Row/Column,Row/Column,Row/
18:44:58 <hppavilion[1]> You wouldn't need to name the file itself to access it
18:46:32 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: What do you think of that
18:46:44 <hppavilion[1]> OR we could do some weird hybrid depending on level
18:47:04 <ais523> the problem with analog storage is that you can't do reshaping
18:47:10 <ais523> the only reason we use digital storage at all is that you can
18:47:27 <hppavilion[1]> C/Tableindex/Treelocation/1 for the front of the dequeue, 0 for the back/
18:47:35 <hppavilion[1]> *C:
18:48:31 <ais523> why do you care so much about making the path look like a Windows path (a modern one with forward slashes, at that)
18:49:13 <hppavilion[1]> Well because I don't feel it'd work very well if it doesn't have nesting
18:49:26 <hppavilion[1]> I'm just using the windows path because that's just syntax, not semantics
18:49:27 <hppavilion[1]> Kind of
18:49:30 <hppavilion[1]> It's a bit semantic
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18:49:41 <InputUsername> Not using nesting would be fun and esoteric, right?
18:49:51 <hppavilion[1]> But it's the kind of semantics would be included
18:50:02 <hppavilion[1]> Not using nesting would put eveything in the same folder
18:50:09 <hppavilion[1]> Well, "Folder"
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18:50:19 <hppavilion[1]> As there wouldn't be folders in an unnested OS
18:50:45 <hppavilion[1]> And DOS used to do that
18:50:50 <hppavilion[1]> So would it really be that esoteric?
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18:50:58 <hppavilion[1]> It'd just be a pain to work with
18:51:21 <hppavilion[1]> And I don't think the EsoOS should be Malbolgey
18:52:28 <hppavilion[1]> What do you think, InputUsername 
18:52:48 <ais523> why not have a tag-based filesystem? where you can tag a file with a number of tags, and search by tag
18:52:53 <hppavilion[1]> Also, we can't just use an array (associative or otherwise) for the filesys, as that wouldn't be soy enough
18:52:54 <InputUsername> Ehh... I suppose it should be usable.
18:52:59 <ais523> a hierarchial filesysetm is a special case of that
18:53:04 <hppavilion[1]> That's something
18:53:11 <InputUsername> That sounds cool.
18:53:12 <hppavilion[1]> I'll add it to the idea list
18:53:31 <hppavilion[1]> But that would be very, VERY slow and inefficient on large filesystems
18:54:18 <hppavilion[1]> OK, what philosophy should we base the Filesystem after?
18:54:25 <hppavilion[1]> Aside from just "Be Esoteric"
18:54:32 <hppavilion[1]> Let's choose a language to base it on
18:54:43 <hppavilion[1]> Just in conceptualization, not in implementation
18:55:03 <int-e> . o O ( is there any use for copy on read semantics? )
18:55:15 <hppavilion[1]> Not sure
18:55:36 <hppavilion[1]> Is that a question about the filesystem or some other project?
18:55:56 <hppavilion[1]> Because I'm having trouble understanding what that meant
18:56:01 <hppavilion[1]> Mostly because I'm an idiot :P
19:18:50 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: I was trying to think of a file system related concept that might conceivably be complemented.
19:19:00 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
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19:26:33 <Phantom_Hoover> tag filesystem is boring
19:26:36 <int-e> how about having initially full, infinite binary trees as file, and a write operation that allows you to prune the tree (cutting off a subtree)...
19:26:38 <Phantom_Hoover> arbitrary graph filesystem
19:26:48 <Phantom_Hoover> wait isn't a tag filesystem an arbitrary hypergraph
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19:27:45 <int-e> (it would be a "truncate only file")
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21:12:44 <FreeFull> http://nikhanselmann.com/public/etc/thesis/
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21:23:23 <izabera> how do i tell if my gawk was compiled with bignum support?
21:23:56 <dtscode> try a really big number
21:23:57 <Taneb> FreeFull, wha...
21:24:48 <izabera> ah i tried with 2 ^ 10000 and it can only compute it with -M
21:24:50 <Taneb> FreeFull, why!?
21:25:22 <izabera> oooh wrong channel
21:25:27 <izabera> i thought i was in #awk
21:25:36 <izabera> sorry ^^'
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21:34:16 <FreeFull> izabera: Some people would probably argue awk is esoteric =P
21:34:26 <FreeFull> Taneb: Dunno
21:34:27 <izabera> awk is sane
21:35:01 <izabera> the weirdest thing in awk is how you declare local variables
21:35:27 <izabera> funcname ( a , b , c ) { code here }         then you call it like  funcname ( a , b ) and c is local
21:40:54 <mauris> the string concatenation operator being  is pretty weird too
21:42:03 <izabera> what's weird about it?
21:43:14 <izabera> a = a b      ==    $a .= $b   in php
21:43:42 <izabera> it's not much weirder
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21:54:48 <oerjan> <int-e> . o O ( binomial skip trie ) <-- is that a data structure or a novelty dance twh
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21:56:48 <izabera> what does twh mean
21:57:16 <shachaf> `? twh
21:57:25 <shachaf> <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
21:57:48 <izabera> `? hth
21:57:59 <shachaf> <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
21:58:07 <oerjan> shachego
21:58:12 <shachaf> oerjan: I feel like some of these wisdom entries are kind of unhelpful.
21:58:23 <oerjan> i can't possibly imagine why
21:58:29 <shachaf> also the ch is a uvular fricative hth
21:58:39 <oerjan> i chnow
21:59:39 <oerjan> fizzie: HackEgo ran away, he bravely ran away away
21:59:50 <shachaf> The other day I was talking about
21:59:55 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palato-alveolar_sibilant
21:59:56 <shachaf> and
22:00:02 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant
22:00:27 <shachaf> It's like these people are parodying themselves.
22:00:35 <shachaf> I can't even hear the difference between the two.
22:00:57 <shachaf> (But Russian speakers can.)
22:01:04 -!- HackEgo has joined.
22:01:08 <fizzie> oerjan: There.
22:01:15 <shachaf> `welcome HackEgo
22:02:54 <oerjan> @fizsnack
22:02:54 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
22:04:01 <shachaf> @bøtsnack
22:04:01 <lambdabot> :)
22:04:28 <tswett> Woe is me.
22:04:30 <shachaf> oerjan: what are you snickering about
22:04:44 <tswett> I'm writing assembly, and I want to put A on the stack, then put B on the stack, then take A off the stack, then take B off the stack.
22:04:50 <shachaf> oerjan: is it time to go snicker-snack?
22:05:07 <tswett> Hungry? Eat a snicker-snack.
22:05:32 <tswett> `? hand
22:05:33 <shachaf> That's not a very woeful situation.
22:05:33 <HackEgo> A hand in the bush is better than a stoned bird.
22:05:45 <tswett> WHAT AM I TO DO
22:05:54 <shachaf> Want something else.
22:06:15 <tswett> That sounds hard.
22:06:38 <shachaf> "whoa is me"
22:06:41 <shachaf> -- stoned bird
22:07:04 <tswett> Specifically: I want to put all registers onto the stack, then change to a different stack, then put a couple more registers on the stack, then pop all the registers off the stack, then pop the desired registers off the stack...
22:07:09 <tswett> Come to think of it, it's obvious.
22:07:19 <tswett> I just need to put the registers I want to save into the appropriate location in the stack.
22:07:36 <tswett> (Eew.)
22:07:37 <shachaf> Are you implementing threads?
22:07:42 <tswett> Yes!
22:07:46 <shachaf> I've done that.
22:08:41 <shachaf> Userspace threads under amd64-linux-gnu?
22:09:00 <tswett> Nope, kernelspace threads under... nothing.
22:09:24 <shachaf> Oh.
22:09:37 <shachaf> Here's the code I wrote, kind of: https://github.com/rethinkdb/rethinkdb/blob/next/src/arch/runtime/context_switching.cc
22:09:46 <shachaf> Looks like it's been heavily modified since then.
22:10:08 <shachaf> But kernelspace threads are harder.
22:10:31 <shachaf> Are you switching address spaces too or something?
22:12:04 <oerjan> shachaf: as usual when reading about that sound in wikipedia i end up completely confused about what the norwegian sj-sound is supposed to be.
22:14:19 <oerjan> i am starting to think sj and rs don't represent different sounds at all, at least in southeastern dialects
22:15:29 <oerjan> but i keep getting the impression that whoever adds the norwegian information to these articles isn't quite competent
22:17:03 <oerjan> anyway, the two articles you linked and the norwegian phonology article have three different suggestions.
22:17:10 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:17:43 <shachaf> what about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sj-sound hth
22:17:59 <tswett> shachaf: nope, I'm pretty much only switching some registers.
22:18:23 <oerjan> that's swedish only.  i've been training on pronouncing it, but it's definitely not a norwegian sound.
22:18:32 <shachaf> I can barely distinguish voiceless velar/uvular fricative.
22:19:25 <shachaf> For that matter, I often hear alveolar trill as uvular trill. :-(
22:19:46 <oerjan> i agree on the first but not the second
22:20:07 <shachaf> Sure, because you can pronounce alveolar trill.
22:20:14 <shachaf> Or can you?
22:20:15 <oerjan> *MWARARARA*
22:20:36 <oerjan> well it's of course _usually_ a flap in norwegian...
22:21:00 <oerjan> but adding a few extra trills isn't that hard.
22:21:06 <oerjan> pero un perro
22:21:08 <shachaf> What's a flap?
22:21:19 <oerjan> like a trill but just one :P
22:21:29 <shachaf> Sure, I think that's what Imean.
22:21:37 <shachaf> Modern Hebrew 'r' is usually voiced uvular fricative, I think.
22:22:07 <oerjan> huh
22:25:03 <oerjan> i'd been assuming it was an alveolar flap/trill, probably by default
22:25:36 <shachaf> when did you have the occasion to make assumptions about this particular consonant
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22:30:38 <oerjan> lessee, we learned some hebrew songs in school, which would of course be completely unreliable on this front.  and then there's the eurovision song contest back in the day.  i suppose i haven't really been paying attention enough to pick it up reliably.
22:31:12 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
22:31:18 * oerjan tries youtube
22:31:31 <shachaf> i learned some hebrew songs in school too
22:31:42 <shachaf> don't know much about the eurovision, though
22:32:48 <oerjan> i found one of shalom chaverim but i don't think it's sung by israelis...
22:33:23 <oerjan> top comment is relevant :P
22:33:37 <oerjan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRZaop5ZoJA
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22:33:53 <boily> @metar CYUL
22:33:53 <lambdabot> CYUL 302219Z 22009KT 15SM -SHRA FEW030 SCT045 BKN075 27/20 A2966 RMK CU1SC2AC4 SLP042 DENSITY ALT 1800FT
22:34:01 <oerjan> boilhy
22:34:09 <boily> sweet fungot in the bit bucket, please have mercy...
22:34:10 <fungot> boily: and a spear at its throat, you kill it, you can also program by telling it stuff that can be changed
22:34:19 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
22:34:19 <lambdabot> ENVA 302220Z 30016KT 9999 -SHRA BKN016 BKN024 10/08 Q1006 RMK WIND 670FT 26012KT
22:34:25 <boily> fungot: yup. going to kill that weather before it gets the better of me.
22:34:26 <fungot> boily: it seemed like a circuit simulator, and i'm afraid it would be awkward, as it has the same title by all of the above, darcs seems simplest)
22:34:32 <boily> hellørjan!
22:36:17 <boily> tonight's diacritical soup was particularly tasty.
22:36:34 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure that youtube did it alveolarly, but i need a more confirmed israeli version...
22:40:58 <boily> fungot: please stop leaking onto oerjan. he doesn't make sense.
22:40:58 <fungot> boily: you can compute the sk combinator expressions from the lc expression??, you are done
22:41:05 <oerjan> bah
22:41:10 * boily computes the oerjan's sk combinator
22:41:17 <oerjan> boily: you are just failing at logreading hth
22:41:29 <boily> TOO LOGICAL!
22:41:36 * boily reads the logs
22:42:37 <oerjan> i suppose an uvular r would be logical for original yiddish-speaking communities, or something.
22:43:16 <oerjan> let's see what wikipedia says
22:43:28 <quintopia> helloily
22:44:56 <oerjan> shachaf: i suppose this confirms it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Hebrew_phonology#endnote_3
22:47:12 <boily> quinthellopiaaaaaaaaaghghghghfhrhghfhgiurhghghrgh :D
22:50:04 <tswett> So %esp points to the top thing on the stack, right? Then 4(%esp) would point to the fifth byte from the top, 8(%esp) to the ninth byte, and so on?
22:51:52 <tswett> No wait, (%esp) would refer to the top thing on the stack.
22:52:39 <tswett> And %esp points to it. 4(%esp) isn't generally a pointer.
22:54:19 <oerjan> quintopia: i think boily's portmachine is leaking something
22:55:01 <shachaf> spot of the phonology, governor?
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22:55:47 <Taneb> tswett, that would depend which way the stack is
22:55:54 * oerjan gives shachaf a spot of the saucepan ===\__/
22:56:05 <tswett> Well, this is x86. The stack is only ever one way, isn't it?
22:56:13 <fizzie> tswett: You can DIY if you really want.
22:56:14 <Taneb> I don't know x86, like, at all
22:56:16 <Taneb> Maybe???
22:56:19 <shachaf> esp is just a register like any other
22:56:21 <fizzie> But that's correct as far as the push/pop instructions go.
22:56:24 <tswett> The bottom of the stack has the highest addresses, the top has the lowest addresses.
22:56:24 <shachaf> as long as you don't use push/pop/call/ret/etc.
22:56:37 <tswett> shachaf: I'll make sure not to use push and pop and the like, then.
22:57:37 <boily> oerjan: those are unIPAifiable sounds. quintopia knows them.
22:57:41 <oerjan> shachaf: i find this spot meme to be scow hth
22:57:47 <oerjan> boily: ah.
22:57:50 <boily> oerjan: also, is it a regulatory spotty saucepan?
22:57:56 <shachaf> oerjan: it is scow
22:58:04 <shachaf> oerjan: does it help if you imagine it being said in a thick american accent?
22:58:50 <oerjan> shachaf: darn that's got to be the problem, i was imagining really snobby queen's english
22:59:47 <tswett> Can the FLAGS register be used in push and pop instructions just like any other register?
22:59:49 <oerjan> boily: the saucepan abides no rules
23:00:14 <fizzie> tswett: No, there's a separate instruction for it.
23:00:25 <fizzie> pushf/pushfd/pushfq in Intel parlance.
23:00:57 <fizzie> Well, maybe that's a "yes" from another point of view. Depends on how you define "just like".
23:01:34 <shachaf> tswett: x86 is scow, use x86-64 instead hth
23:02:04 <fizzie> Also: you can turn one out of the lods/stos instructions into a stack operation for a stack that's growing to either direction, but they're not conveniently pairable: both post-{inc,dec}rement, and they use different implicit registers.
23:03:24 <oerjan> shachaf: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2012/04/a-spot-of-tea-pops-up-at-spice-station.html
23:03:51 <tswett> Dang, is this really all of the assembly I need?
23:04:40 <fizzie> shachaf: Your precious x86-64 doesn't even have pusha or aaa QED
23:04:45 <tswett> pushfd \ pushad \ xchg %edx, %esp \ mov %eax, 24(%esp) \ mov %ebx, 12(%esp) \ mov %edx, 16(%esp) \ popad \ popfd
23:05:05 <shachaf> fizzie: at least i have rip-relative addressing
23:05:12 <fizzie> AAA
23:05:26 <shachaf> the only reason i don't have pusha is that i have a zillion registers
23:05:44 <shachaf> more than can even fit in dram
23:06:27 <oerjan> shachaf: fascinating http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-spo3.htm
23:07:39 <shachaf> oerjan: you must know a lot more about spots than i do at this point
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23:07:55 <oerjan> so basically, it's so stereotypically british that soon only americans use it.
23:08:05 <oerjan> hth
23:08:18 <shachaf> oerjan: the origin of this phrase was certain folks making fun of a british person
23:08:36 <shachaf> and it was said with a mock british accent of some sort
23:08:52 <shachaf> but then they were told not to make fun of british folks, so they started saying it in an american accent instead
23:09:26 <oerjan> say it in a politically correct accent, clearly
23:12:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:InputUsername]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43674&oldid=43666 * InputUsername * (+111) Added Underload interpreter
23:14:26 <Sgeo_> Perl 6 Junction, what's yoor function? Syntax sugar for a thing similar to the list monad
23:14:49 <Sgeo_> I don't know why I'm suddenly fascinated by Perl 6. Supposedly it's going to release at the end of the year
23:16:03 <oerjan> which year, is the question
23:16:59 <Sgeo_> Supposedly this year
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23:23:34 <Sgeo_> Most things inn Perl 6 are Any. Except Junctions. Anys and Junctions are Mu. I wonder if we could define our own non-Any that manipulates things around it when used as an argument the way junctions do
23:24:58 <Sgeo_> "My favorite suggestion in all of this was to make Perl 6 a pure functional language and introduce monads."
23:25:01 <Sgeo_> http://www.perl.com/pub/2005/02/p6pdigest/20050222.html
23:31:18 <coppro> I can't help but think of perl 6 as a giant joke any more
23:32:37 <coppro> "While one side believes that auto-threading repetition of sid effects will crash any database that interacts with Perl 6, the other side believes that requiring extra pragmas to unlock their full power will prevent junctions from curing cancer."
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23:39:51 <boily> is there any non-homeopathically statistically significant user base for perl 6?
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23:53:57 <oerjan> <tswett> Isn't there someone here that was working on a way of doing exact real computation of some kind? <-- rings a bell.  some kind of continued fraction where the numbers were given by a polynomial?
23:54:20 <oerjan> so could do e.g. e and stuff
23:54:59 <oerjan> (and not just unbounded precision, but exact.)
23:55:20 <oerjan> but my memory of it is definitely not exact