< 1437955297 786252 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :たていすかんなにらせちとしはきくまのりつさそひこみも < 1437955347 655384 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1437955421 143687 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: what is that? < 1437955447 639431 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides tateisukannanirasechitoshihakikumanoritsusasuhinimimo < 1437955475 864602 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is apparently the result of pressing all the letter buttons qwertyuiop[asdfghjklzxcvbnm in kana input mode < 1437955487 956079 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437955505 801340 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1437955517 860293 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437955518 641592 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I screwed up < 1437955520 431903 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :゛ぬふあうえおやゆよわほたていすかんなにらせ゜むーちとしはきくまのりれゃつさそひこみもねるめ < 1437955528 384676 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/susa/sosa/ < 1437955570 156239 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't appear to be in any recognisable order < 1437955588 520954 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aueo is kind of < 1437955598 255238 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :3456 < 1437955599 188409 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yayuyo too < 1437955609 297596 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :789 < 1437955619 837966 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wa is 0 < 1437955626 135396 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was e? < 1437955643 107835 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1437955652 87284 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess those are kind of grouped, the rest not so much < 1437955658 63588 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be done similar to qwerty? < 1437955670 105082 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... hmm, then you wouldn't want all the single vowels on the top row < 1437955728 120481 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the vowel extender? < 1437955747 831874 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why does little ya have its own key, but little yo/yu do not? < 1437955774 578403 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437955776 128825 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ー is \ < 1437955789 453486 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1437955815 316271 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how mu is farther away than the handakuten < 1437956004 250826 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1437956274 428427 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :もう、これは難しい < 1437956421 496213 :hppavilion[1]_!~hppavilio@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437956452 924927 :hppavilion[1]_!~hppavilio@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437956544 483946 :hppavilion[1]_!~hppavilio@133-171-58-66.gci.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437956558 575957 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test < 1437956707 73163 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC clients are _hard_ < 1437956730 531710 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hope I don't need to use threading < 1437956736 606067 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Threading in python is AWFUL < 1437956770 495038 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sending this message might kind of fix it < 1437956801 443033 :hppavilion[1]_!~hppavilio@133-171-58-66.gci.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1437956871 834888 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: threading in python is fucking disgusting, yes < 1437956889 792008 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :god help C++ when it gets a networking library (asio) < 1437956922 574360 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even going to look it up < 1437956980 765331 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Lord, they'd actually manage to make something worse than BSD sockets. < 1437956993 195051 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've not actually used asio < 1437957015 760892 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a boost lib. I'm already terrified. < 1437957024 916792 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1437957029 965954 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding is it's high-power < 1437957040 520798 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you just want to send some packets, look elsewhere < 1437957060 595613 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well there's one thing it has that (sadly) standard BSD sockets doesn't. < 1437957061 493431 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write a highly threaded webserver? probably like 6 lines, each 200 characters :P < 1437957076 259336 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reasonably full-featured DNS querying. < 1437957104 441270 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread lightly and carry a big lock < 1437957148 126328 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard BSD socket lib only lets you *sanely* do A and AAAA queries. < 1437957172 957286 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, while by far the most common case and definitely something that should be supported, is not enough. :) < 1437957206 894225 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be kind of nuts once they add coroutine support < 1437957439 430452 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1437957579 448714 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437957689 400365 :t3cora18!~t3cora18@2001:470:8b70:1337::c0de NICK :h0rsep0wer_znc < 1437957763 449731 :h0rsep0wer!~h0rsep0we@unaffiliated/h0rsep0wer QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1437959026 709185 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437959142 367764 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1437959416 435468 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437960338 93346 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1437960564 333041 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1437960573 807825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I get a intercepting HTTPS proxy for Linux? < 1437960707 614232 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1437961046 698448 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Esoteric Operating System14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43598&oldid=32513 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+255) 10/* Move this to make room for a more accurate page */ new section < 1437961073 526315 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1437961122 528170 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody have any objections to my proposal on that page? < 1437961129 552609 :Wallacoloo!~colin@2601:602:8a00:78e3:e5d6:6944:3eaa:7b9d PART :#esoteric < 1437961564 145554 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: squid can do that http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/SslBump < 1437961621 390919 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would like to bring up the topic of EsOSes < 1437961650 502028 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which will be an enormous endeavor to design < 1437961664 413657 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because this would be a (very simple) _graphical_ OS < 1437961681 882810 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not something like a CLI that does BrainFuck < 1437961705 26716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka it will never actually happen < 1437961736 689610 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless of course we slowly Esoterize a version of Linux. < 1437961771 672274 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The EsOS of my design would be more than just an OS < 1437961799 853171 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would also include programs like the EsoBrowser which implements the EHTTP < 1437961859 770565 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think of tthe idea of Esoterizing Ubuntu or something, oerjan? < 1437961888 450393 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: How can I tell it then to delete headers? < 1437961935 452868 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, you'll need to look at the documentation < 1437961957 634411 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dove flies past oerjan, shedding a feather. < 1437962061 572100 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that the ubuntu project already contains an esoteric graphical operating system underneath an esoteric user-space operating system and an esoteric web browser that implements esoteric internet protocols; it's called ubuntu < 1437962078 702396 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu was just an example < 1437962089 356342 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just be some Open-Source derivative of Unix < 1437962127 640866 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to design an esoteric internet protocol? < 1437962206 653427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that if you can find enough people wanting to do such a thing, go ahead; also i don't think you will. < 1437962269 746440 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently debian runs two versions of systemd: one as root and one as user... < 1437962381 591258 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we could design an EsOS that need not be implemented? < 1437962412 253430 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437962417 886561 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi boil < 1437962418 725410 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1437962419 702307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should stay out of this since he's obviously not going to participate < 1437962429 626603 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1437962430 841229 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it < 1437962432 48105 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavellon[1 < 1437962433 699071 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :] < 1437962442 519464 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1437962442 574144 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 8h 8m 34s ago: No, I'm too afraid. < 1437962474 508066 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric : walrusman said 6 h 6 m 6 s ago: The password is "aaafkjeoaaefjaeljfaoeiofn" < 1437962485 156123 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie don't be afraid. it's good for you. it's for your own health. embrace. hth. fnord. < 1437962485 210386 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1437962520 699014 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're discussing EsOSes < 1437962525 734956 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to help design one? < 1437962630 861627 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should stay out of this :P < 1437962673 851027 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1437962716 446189 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently taking ideas for an Esoteric Filesystem < 1437962755 833048 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you filesoterystem? < 1437962799 485498 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sentence only has a helping verb... < 1437962950 86848 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So should I start with the classic folder/file tree or should I scrap all existing logic of filesystems completely and start from scratch? < 1437962952 917550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :main verb unnecessary in these parts < 1437962960 413031 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a HTTPS proxy that can work only when the browser is opened? < 1437962975 367026 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to strip out the "Strict-Transport-Security" header < 1437963039 426285 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps instead of a file tree I could do nested file tables? < 1437963055 466422 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Hacking Team has one. < 1437963060 694377 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something obnoxious and stack-based? < 1437963076 416203 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1437963100 644769 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the simplest possible filesystem: One big block of ones and zeroes. I'll call this FS_0 < 1437963109 479845 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just one unified file < 1437963118 750607 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FS_1 < 1437963127 194494 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Individual files, all in the same folder < 1437963134 886937 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FS_2 < 1437963136 262406 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're pushing the everything-is-a-file concept a little bit too far there. hth. < 1437963146 197993 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files can be in folders < 1437963147 482366 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :FS1 is what DOS has < 1437963150 767102 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only one deep < 1437963156 563406 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FS_infinity < 1437963165 740786 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Files are in folders, folders can be in other folders < 1437963186 768485 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to rename that to FS infinity tree, actually < 1437963209 477962 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :A directory is a file. < 1437963219 526601 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY? < 1437963227 670582 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my universe it is. < 1437963228 16035 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going by abstractiness < 1437963243 173487 :pikhq!~pikhq@2601:646:8700:3d63:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my universe is POSIX. < 1437963253 839743 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So FS 0 is also FS 0 tree < 1437963262 385669 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FS 1 is FS 1 tree and FS 1 list < 1437963269 102765 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/list/set < 1437963289 926125 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still thinking this out :P < 1437963307 574341 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One big file with everything in it: FS Var < 1437963327 722578 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is in the same directory with different files: FS list < 1437963333 861057 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/lit/map < 1437963342 212848 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :metas/lit/list < 1437963379 335294 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm spamming a bit :P < 1437963460 642388 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an idea < 1437963474 125863 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up "esoteric data structures" < 1437963579 942051 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjwLBzvbt4c < 1437963951 12050 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1437964100 355317 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: RESPIRATORY CHICKEN < 1437965341 343071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fixed my browser's HSTS support by changing the name of the header in libxul.so to contain a CRLF pair, so that it is impossible to match. < 1437965958 536093 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, now HPKP doesn't work either, but the testing page also says that if it did work then you cannot bypass it; I do want to enable HPKP but make it bypassable, but to disable HSTS entirely. < 1437966038 508678 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not bypassable HSTS (and not just "type in http:// or navigate there") rather than no HSTS? < 1437966039 348955 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437966185 850441 :MDream!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1437966515 853553 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :HSTS does not solve anything. < 1437966656 327569 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It solves MITMer directing you to http:// of a site you visited before then incercepting, when the site in fact supports HTTPS < 1437966779 413612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can see it is http:// then you can see what it is; make user-defined redirections if you want otherwise. If there are problem with cookies or whatever, well, my opinion no cookies and login and so on should cross protocols; HTTP and HTTPS should each have their own set of cookies. < 1437966796 163938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should also use different cookies if the port number changes, too. < 1437966858 423144 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But cookies do cross protocols, sadly it's too late to change that. And even if they didn't, you have stronger phishing risks < 1437966956 153840 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I suppose that would require a user savvy enough to check the domain name but unsavvy enough to trust http. Although those users might exist because there are sites out there that are actually http-only) < 1437967060 641200 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can set cookies to be HTTPS only, although a client can nevertheless be designed to implement cookies in this more strict way; ignore the security flag on cookies and instead always use whatever protocol the cookie is sent with. < 1437967197 409539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1437967599 952081 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437968241 593202 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1437968303 259846 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoScript Lite doesn't work for me < 1437968729 953084 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1437968878 485685 :password2!~password@197.77.4.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437969255 919148 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My site is http-only because I don't store visitor's personal information anyway < 1437969289 150245 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only sites that nees https are those that have login and store sensitive information < 1437969307 280117 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1437969648 89655 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437970388 19589 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't store visitor's personal information either, and even if I did, HTTPS would not stop me from storing them < 1437970500 939281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the idea's not to stop you storing them, but to stop other people taking copies of them / altering them while they're in transit to or from your site < 1437970757 779734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, but still HTTPS won't stop the site you are connecting to from storing your information. < 1437970912 328573 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437971118 71833 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does stop intercepting, however it can be useful to intercept it yourself, so it should allow HTTPS over a plain HTTP proxy and the proxy would handle secure connections instead; you can run this proxy in the same LAN or even on the same computer for additional security, although a remote one might improve the speed if you have a slow computer. < 1437971929 86415 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have made all sorts of hacks into Firefox in various places: the filesystem permissions, the SQLite database schemas, the about:config, the userChrome,js, and even hexediting the program binaries. < 1437972169 558287 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437972193 7011 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1437972332 780898 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1437972422 946834 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437972429 325013 :Wright_!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437972707 269066 :Wright_!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1437972768 996309 :password2!~password@197.77.4.238 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1437972870 690440 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437973039 811686 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Esoteric Operating System14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43599&oldid=43598 5* 03Hppavilion1 5* (+293) 10/* EsOS file system */ new section < 1437974248 321824 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what hexediting? < 1437974866 79034 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed the string "strict-transport-security" in libxul.so by replacing two of the consecutive letters with a CRLF pair instead. < 1437975018 449396 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm... what for? < 1437975082 68412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems the only way to disable HSTS < 1437975116 69764 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: has HSTS caused problems for you? or do you just want to disable it out of principle? < 1437975222 732542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to disable it because it is a bad idea. < 1437975250 834998 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is a bad idea made necessary for a bad existing design. < 1437975338 945745 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :HPKP would make some sense if the user could override it. HSTS is just stupid though. < 1437975558 48541 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1437976851 864149 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.... < 1437976980 370452 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: Files *must* be in folders, only one deep, is what TI-92 does < 1437977004 113756 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1437977007 261988 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except for local variables) < 1437977017 942952 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking for a GUI project to do < 1437977022 451901 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fun < 1437977043 424129 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, if there is any compilation of GUI project ideas, it's REALLY hard to find < 1437977104 850673 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. What kind of GUI are you using? < 1437977120 605436 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one I default to is a tcl < 1437977133 166028 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :./tk < 1437977137 709018 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically in python < 1437977139 918888 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Tkinter < 1437977150 285812 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AmigaMML IDE, if you like that kind of stuff, is one kind of project I suppose < 1437977189 123923 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add that to the list of ideas < 1437977194 414165 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a simple OS is good too < 1437977226 725708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a GUI of a OS can be another idea < 1437977244 295475 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to start compiling a list < 1437977257 95815 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I have a website, I'll format it properly and publish it < 1437978547 88037 :Walpurgisnacht!~Nihilumbr@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437979467 844046 :Walpurgisnacht!~Nihilumbr@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 56 * 789e+999999999 < 1437979473 81012 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval: ExitFailure 1 < 1437979477 793812 :Walpurgisnacht!~Nihilumbr@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes < 1437979501 24114 :Walpurgisnacht!~Nihilumbr@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a really big number that is below a googol < 1437979515 397084 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: do you mean an esoteric one? < 1437979536 830983 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One what? < 1437979541 844644 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS? < 1437979547 89560 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, gui project < 1437979552 207370 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric (gui project) < 1437979552 669178 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1437979556 979294 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoterism is optional < 1437979576 378642 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: ok, do you want an easy one or a hard one or a very hard one? < 1437979596 336566 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any of the three will do < 1437979695 435603 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: very hard one: a PDF viewer with interface that doesn't get in your way: controllable with keyboard and mouse such that you can hide all the toolbars and menus and such so they don't cover parts of the screen, preferably based on the xpdf backend as forked by okular, and most importantly: EASILY ADJUSTABLE GAMMA SETTING, per pdf, and possibly separately for text and images < 1437979718 546488 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, let's scale it back a bit :P < 1437979719 195146 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hppavilion[1]: possibly hack the missing parts of this into okular < 1437979731 445648 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something easy or slightly hard < 1437979799 275622 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :p: < 1437979834 794096 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard one: a raster image viewer with interface that doesn't get in your way, controllable with keyboard and mouse such that you can hide blah blah, adjustable gamma setting, and adjustable setting for how zoom is antialiased so you can get nearest neighbour or some more expensive interpolation, < 1437979871 107404 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go with something I could actually _do_ < 1437979876 941753 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a thumbnail view for all images, and if I specifically ask, it should be able to rotate photos by 90 degree and save the rotations in _a separate file_ rather than in the photos. < 1437979877 46966 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just using standard widgets < 1437979891 156823 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :image viewer with zooming should be a standard widget I think < 1437979899 6780 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should < 1437979902 168992 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it is though < 1437979929 463858 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy one? dunno, let me think. the problem with easy ones is that I just don't use GUIs for those. < 1437979945 612918 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minesweeper is a simple GUI project < 1437979946 754659 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of < 1437979958 451107 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a beginner's final project as a beginner sometimes < 1437980037 283076 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, for both the image viewer and pdf viewer, I'd like the mouse panning speed customizable as a signed floating point number. < 1437980047 545253 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because some people actually like reverse pan. < 1437980057 295152 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah... < 1437980061 535979 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll remember that... < 1437980071 517192 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Weirdos) < 1437980090 94192 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabbed out < 1437980102 811352 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reference me by name to get my attention < 1437980293 5560 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write this down so I won't forget any feature when I write my letter to Father Christmas. < 1437980430 175595 :Walpurgisnacht!~Nihilumbr@74-61-60-199.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: hhhh < 1437980812 566753 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V7Ewci21-4dNp3hzORuzljOpTJeim8Vb1-qnHhLzugk/edit?usp=sharing < 1437980814 761763 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There < 1437980838 884757 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust the people here enough to share that link for anyone to submit ideas, doable and otherwise. < 1437981870 596991 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1437982476 415003 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :) < 1437982787 592908 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437982883 149303 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1437982894 134786 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever that was just viewing my doc? < 1437982908 239152 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think of what I have so far? < 1437982975 709360 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you use Google Docs, it isn't very good < 1437982987 436684 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it useful < 1437983000 784934 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias JOIN :#esoteric < 1437983007 409356 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a better free collaborative online document editor I should know about? < 1437983047 411361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MediaWiki I suppose < 1437983056 856282 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1437983065 562317 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is just a draft I'm going to put on my website < 1437983076 623209 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This isn't the final share < 1437983113 554847 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or use a FTP server < 1437983198 41402 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well FTP isn't a very good way to transmit text like this, IMHO < 1437983330 377995 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it can be made on a website, make it a website < 1437983489 977280 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the philosophy I subscribe to < 1437984495 586216 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1437986665 507868 :white_bear!~white_bea@AMontsouris-655-1-215-164.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1437986967 119501 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437986994 350158 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1437987245 881405 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1437987257 883043 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :google docs is awesome < 1437987285 947775 :white_bear!~white_bea@AMontsouris-655-1-215-164.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1437987493 817825 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1437987641 910257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main issue with Google Docs is that it plays rather fast and loose with the HTML it uses internally, especially if you copy/paste from Word < 1437987679 276573 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord. < 1437987683 646726 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1437987728 112070 :white_bear!~white_bea@AMontsouris-655-1-215-164.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1437987736 644701 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inter-suite compatibility is something I've never seen < 1437987762 295954 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't we just use HTML for documents? < 1437987883 683034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML isn't restrictive enough < 1437987889 400785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus allows way too many ways to write the same thing < 1437988075 92677 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1437988139 372498 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1437988163 940886 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1437988180 212102 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it's rendered correctly why would that bother me? < 1437988202 682547 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1437988286 92631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: because editing (especially collaborative editing) can easily make the formatting inconsistent in a way that's very difficult to fi < 1437988287 769055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fix < 1437988296 396652 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know all this from personal experience) < 1437988299 977839 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean WYISWYG editing? < 1437988305 230766 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WYSIWYG < 1437988313 20026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: I mean editing via Google Docs specifically < 1437988330 713365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's due to the general issues of WYSIWYG editing of HTML < 1437988346 859803 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it allows inline styles but not separate CSS < 1437988948 448448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1437989058 874526 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why you can use MediaWiki or even just plain text, if HTML isn't restrictive enough < 1437989109 134258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For many kind of documents plain text works just fine, although for collaborative work it still help to have automatic changelogs < 1437989150 552664 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1437989169 862082 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an architectural standpoint.... I think pyongyang looks amazing. < 1437989238 560952 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the parts that are shown in this video. < 1437989626 730476 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How can I do bold blinking text in plaintext? < 1437989636 188172 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, to get people's attention? < 1437989699 921507 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Micosoft Word totally has Text Effects! < 1437989704 908222 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or had. I'm not sure if it still does.) < 1437989761 872825 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooo!! < 1437989765 283227 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They removed it in 2013. < 1437989805 463515 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? word < 1437989820 815842 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :word? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1437989840 843606 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore. < 1437989841 633069 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1437989847 716312 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore. < 1437989851 75102 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned 'word': word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore. < 1437989991 289554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: shouldn't that mention "winword" too somewhere? that's what it was called by default for some time < 1437990008 912307 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I renamed it, but only so that I can run two versions at the same time. < 1437990582 838254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: In some case you don't need such thing, anyways if you print it out it is hard to blink. < 1437990635 127205 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What? but users do expect the printed versions to be animated too. < 1437990659 296552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if the internet stories about typical stupid users are true. < 1437990675 46387 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aware of that. < 1437990712 916566 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what is the URL for your gopher server? < 1437991269 670440 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not microsoft's fault printers suck at printing animations. < 1437991291 195132 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Word was just decades ahead of printers. < 1437991325 752799 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain if printers were advanced enough Microsoft had done everything to make animations work on prints as well. < 1437991338 820957 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have spinning word-arts! < 1437991386 899573 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1437991389 726346 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even better! < 1437991419 540660 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have had power-point effects on OHP! < 1437991434 458763 :x10A94!~x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437991436 759631 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with plastic foils that support animations. < 1437991450 436689 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1437991452 653159 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it "sheet"? < 1437991457 153269 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you call that thing in english? < 1437991470 575616 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :transparent sheet? < 1437991494 495777 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :slide? < 1437991516 784088 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :overhead projector transparent celluloid foil slide or whatever < 1437991552 377100 :x1365C!x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437991562 580549 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently "transparencies" < 1437991581 735720 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_%28projection%29 < 1437991629 226093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're called "cels" in the context of animation. < 1437991646 964266 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A cel, short for celluloid, is a transparent sheet on which objects are drawn or painted for traditional, hand-drawn animation. Actual celluloid (consisting of cellulose nitrate and camphor) was used during the first half of the 20th century, but since it was flammable and dimensionally unstable it was largely replaced by cellulose acetate. With the advent of computer-assisted animation ... < 1437991652 997440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... production, the use of cels has been all but abandoned in major productions. Disney studios stopped using cels in 1990 when Computer Animation Production System (CAPS) replaced this element in their animation process." < 1437991663 940684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "cel shading". < 1437991707 764836 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1437991711 394120 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :overlay transparencies < 1437991714 757378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily It's not that, I'm afraid it'd alter fungot's PERSONALITY, because it's a whole different thing I'm using now to make them models. < 1437991714 900045 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1437991715 111978 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did you *just* implement call/ cc in terms of lambda abstraction and application, too < 1437991718 275972 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and move the ones that need moving < 1437991724 459825 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a nice documentary about that on youtube < 1437991756 203134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: No, I didn't. < 1437991756 560315 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: at least that's how i find it curious that this seemingly nonstandard extension is the default size? < 1437991800 461073 :x10A94!~x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1437991922 673733 :x1365C!x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1437991986 181973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437992031 384480 :x10A94!x10A94@178.252.73.97 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437992071 485936 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1437992468 513408 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437992516 130098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1437992796 52383 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN :#esoteric < 1437993009 560679 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can you play the harp? < 1437993009 772042 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: really cool would be some defined database types... e.g. id like to mind. < 1437993032 219704 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile germany wants 48h weeks . < 1437993156 30538 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like only two days < 1437993165 262223 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are they going to do with the other five!? < 1437993187 493739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: sleeping, eating, commute, leisure, I guess < 1437993207 549900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sleeping again to make five < 1437993214 830438 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, a 48h work week? < 1437993227 429870 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 48 / 6 < 1437993228 634887 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8.0 < 1437993232 38211 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9 + 8 < 1437993233 363140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : 17 < 1437993241 956033 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 9 to 5 six days a week! < 1437993257 308769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1437993271 442811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIUI it's a common scam to try to persuade your workers that doing that's normal < 1437993307 300040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the EU has maximum work hours for this sort of reason (but unfortunately there are too many loopholes involved, e.g. in the UK it's possible to opt out, and businesses put you under a lot of pressure to do so) < 1437993309 337005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A six-day work week *was* normal, right? < 1437993441 579609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, at one point < 1437993452 150346 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although then it also tended to be limited by available daylight < 1437993463 894980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eight hours every non-Sunday every month would be unusual < 1437994206 791350 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: BBL < 1437994269 22616 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1437994299 628785 :J_A_Work!~J_Arcane@a91-153-98-205.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1437994667 227878 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1437994674 411018 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Inappropriate key specification" < 1437994675 715181 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1437994677 563121 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :good message. < 1437994900 724072 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Quit: lunch < 1437995101 258411 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1437995198 447451 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: Inappropriate key specification: IOException: ObjectIdentifier() -- data isn't an object ID (tag = -96) < 1437995203 328507 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. that's a little bit more detail :D < 1437995206 215877 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1437995207 539818 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF! < 1437995240 319856 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrelloman. you're doing nasty java stuff. this is inappropriate. < 1437995256 41850 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1437995288 663689 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.security.spec.InvalidKeySpecException: Inappropriate key specification: IOException: DerInputStream.getLength(): lengthTag=127, too big. < 1437995292 119034 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on :( < 1437995516 259959 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing ASN.1? < 1437995521 548265 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1437995521 602753 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie said 1h 3m 26s ago: It's not that, I'm afraid it'd alter fungot's PERSONALITY, because it's a whole different thing I'm using now to make them models. < 1437995534 412067 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie *gasp*! < 1437995534 466515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1437995677 630229 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1437995683 731672 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing a p2p message networking system < 1437995690 279611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have to exchange public keys and stuff < 1437995695 287796 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :to verify each others identity < 1437995700 495962 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :every message is signed ;) < 1437995706 692813 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory < 1437995711 258806 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now pulbic keys can't be loaded :D < 1437995728 304425 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. now it works < 1437995729 47683 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine. < 1437995809 2343 :TieSoul!~quassel@86.89.119.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437996078 932776 :TieSoul!~quassel@86.89.119.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1437996272 736053 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: WHETSTONE CHICKEN < 1437996327 78531 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this probably consumes a lot of CPU < 1437996331 411541 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it signs every single package :D < 1437996854 766246 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :java.security.SignatureException: invalid encoding for signature < 1437996855 502985 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :rats < 1437996889 602986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437997008 566298 :TieSoul!~quassel@2a02:a448:4a62:0:548d:2bb6:e105:b48e JOIN :#esoteric < 1437997395 415469 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. finally everything works < 1437997964 360454 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1437998003 751740 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: So I can close all the bugs in our company bug tracker as fixed, then? < 1437998157 495546 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1437998166 88321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to pay for something over the phone recently, because there were technical problems with paying over the Internet (which I suspect were caused by the connection dropping at exactly the wrong moment) < 1437998182 960198 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked them to send a receipt by email so that I had a record of the transaction < 1437998211 789356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did so: it's a scanned-in copy of the physical paper receipt that was produced by their credit card reader < 1437998216 602851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I find this hilarious < 1437998285 616568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wooden table, though? < 1437998310 428743 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no idea, if you mean http://theevilliouschronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Crimes_and_Punishments_(story) < 1437998318 431083 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1437998326 438729 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I paid something with a debit card on a ferry, and they used one of those old-fashioned things where you put the card in and drag the handle back and worth and it copies the embossed numbers. < 1437998336 91275 :white_bear!~white_bea@AMontsouris-655-1-215-164.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1437998343 480318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it took 2-3 weeks to show up on the account. < 1437998358 496983 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised they accepted a debit card for that. < 1437998425 568832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because it might not have had money in? < 1437998444 50314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that, and just in general, I associate those things with credit cards explicitly. < 1437998446 248416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most financial transactions rely on the principle of "most people are honest, and most people who aren't can be caught and sued for the money" < 1437998457 158188 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-193-184.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think debit cards are typically also credit cards < 1437998461 771755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one isn't. < 1437998463 383974 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the UK I've known them to be used for cheque guarantee cards as well < 1437998485 622056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1437998505 848621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the precursor to a debit card, a "Visa Electron" I used to have in Finland, was unusable in many places, because it was (at least supposedly) strictly online-only. < 1437998506 529467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1437998521 627670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Repeating:] And the precursor to a debit card, a "Visa Electron" I used to have in Finland, was unusable in many places, because it was (at least supposedly) strictly online-only. < 1437998530 518514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: at least in the UK, debit cards typically can't be used for purchases on credit unless you have an arranged overdraft, which you usually don't < 1437998556 987839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I used to have a Visa Electron; it was mostly only intended to be used in cash machines < 1437998567 96717 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some websites did accept it < 1437998574 462683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Also at POS terminals in shops. < 1437998578 992483 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shops didn't (at least the only one I tried to use it at didn't), so I had to find a cash machine nearby < 1437998596 394439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in Finland "normal" shops did/do accept it. < 1437998610 692398 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's been somewhat phased out in favor of Visa Debit. < 1437998618 752389 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visa Debit seems to be accepted everywhere < 1437998632 700627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they still have Electron cards for young people etc. < 1437998665 357163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a debit/credit card too, and sometimes the people don't ask, just assume debit or credit. < 1437998685 856153 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or ignore what you tell them. < 1437998745 291207 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well < 1437998750 749632 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make sure you add a "won't fix" label < 1437998757 786599 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "works for me you dipshit" < 1437998790 419638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a "won't fix, intended behavior" status. < 1437998803 47326 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, then abuse the hell out of that. < 1437998835 575213 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a "not a bug, feature" label < 1437998844 598536 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "not a bug, marketing reasons" < 1437998846 94297 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1437998865 724535 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"crashes randomly every week" ==> "not a bug, marketing reasons" < 1437998886 612630 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aka otherwise nobody would buy the next version coming out next month) < 1437999150 875733 :white_bear!~white_bea@106-185-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1438000568 769941 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438000692 676725 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438002042 88673 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1438002081 312953 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1438002096 746297 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a debit card and a credit card, which are both green, with a Visa symbol, a +Plus and an Interac sysmbol on them. it is confusing, because they are only distinguished by a tiny word that says "credit" on one and "debit" on the other. < 1438002519 424961 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: yeah. it's even worse about virtual cards. < 1438002552 797172 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more fun if you have a reddit card too < 1438003085 112170 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Visa debit card < 1438003453 311539 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1438003691 301235 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you have a credit card? < 1438003691 767904 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it was in here a few weeks while waiting for the ehlo answer, whether he supports fnord and so i do < 1438003819 34972 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mail servers with fnord support? < 1438003917 366766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What's the RFC for that? < 1438003917 685685 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: short-term versus long-term " currently in php but i could install run?' using fnord. < 1438004433 979716 :J_A_Work!~J_Arcane@a91-153-98-205.elisa-laajakaista.fi QUIT :Quit: J_A_Work < 1438005430 332704 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438005446 582007 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438005542 572644 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were a malware developper < 1438005547 701977 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use images to transport malware < 1438005559 504576 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then extract the code dynamically through javascript from the image < 1438005561 341657 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-44c0f875.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1438005562 450364 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then execute it < 1438005652 918943 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438005654 248364 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that javascript is supposed to not run malware < 1438005658 768446 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438005672 427690 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that works... < 1438005775 278518 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any suffiecently advanced malware is indistinguishable from non-malware". < 1438005832 318109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it might be distingushable from obvious non-malware, though < 1438005834 611513 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1438005879 155827 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any sufficiently advanced program is malware. < 1438005882 379992 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably better. < 1438005901 386823 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1438005907 344814 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I like that < 1438005940 821954 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's truer than I'm willing to admit < 1438006002 362476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1438006131 288821 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1438006166 192899 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q: What is perl useful for? A: Writing a syntax highliter for perl code using regular expressions. < 1438006220 956774 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1438006331 409359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is really hard to syntax-highlight < 1438006345 512473 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far Kate holds the record out of programs I've tried, but even it screws up sometims < 1438006348 606082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometimes < 1438006377 264326 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, well, Perl is TC to syntax-highlight because you can write code that runs the instant it's parsed and can change the parsing of the rest of the file as an effect) < 1438006415 549894 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or even code that's read twice and parsed differently in the two parses < 1438006440 218181 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, polyglot hilighting. < 1438006448 979001 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care, because I don't syntax highlight anything, and I think syntax highlighting is a bad idea in genreal. < 1438006449 117013 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Check out the „American Fuzzy Lops“ < 1438006460 740175 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: Semiautomatic JPeg-Fuzzing < 1438006461 391674 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can't read the code without help from the computer, then the code is written unclear. < 1438006482 892820 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: I disagree with that. < 1438006485 736255 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the unclear code that should be fixed, not the highlighting. < 1438006502 576581 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual cues help you read code faster < 1438006511 251489 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heared some counter-arguments, like how it helps catch errors when you write the code, or stuff. < 1438006519 472160 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example highlighting return statements makes you see them much better < 1438006534 362237 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it shows you syntax errors before you hit "compile" < 1438006551 835137 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also auto-complete really increases productivity < 1438006562 623976 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really that much related to syntax highlighting itself < 1438006584 263993 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Auto-complete is just horrible. It makes people type a word once, with a typo, and then copy the typo everywhere in the code, and they never read it. < 1438006585 449490 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like editors that can highlight and format code automatically < 1438006587 615717 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that. < 1438006595 180039 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I have to replace the typo globally. < 1438006596 394347 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That does happen, yes :) < 1438006606 983434 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why eclipse has a "rename" < 1438006610 969491 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which renames all references as well. < 1438006614 768976 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1438006633 644193 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for "before you compile", I think that's distracting, when I write code I want to concentrate on the code I write, I can fix typos in a later pass. < 1438006646 248264 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want the editor interrupting me with the typos that I'll find when compiling. < 1438006651 792491 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise you'd need to have the documentation of all the things open somewhere < 1438006657 206171 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then switch between eclipse and the documentation < 1438006666 355487 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is just annoying. < 1438006699 144535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure, requesting documentation (or matching parenthesis) with a keystroke is fine, just don't distract me with that info while I'm writing stuff. < 1438006723 336317 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :matching parenthesis sucks :) < 1438006728 289687 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate when eclipse does that < 1438006752 868343 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer if it had a command that "closes open parentheses" < 1438006771 22346 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, does what exactly? < 1438006771 841662 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can write things like Math.abs(Math.min(a,b and then hit that command < 1438006775 659590 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1438006776 121140 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use eclipse < 1438006789 968518 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you use auto-complete sometimes eclipse will automatically insert arguments < 1438006796 490086 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1438006800 863441 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wrote Math.abs(foo); < 1438006807 86361 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you want to change that to Math.sqrt < 1438006812 512256 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will result in Math.sqrt(p)foo; < 1438006820 988483 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's somewhat annoying sometimes. < 1438006842 330190 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a command that jumps to the matching parenthesis to the one under the cursor, bound to a keystroke. Luckily, most sane editors have this already. < 1438007069 524251 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ToDO before I die: Write a LISP compiler < 1438007070 757236 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1438007073 215705 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't done that < 1438007090 874980 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :someday I will! < 1438007252 302313 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, I'll do it now. < 1438007366 152102 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438007380 969799 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438007389 702214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438007397 174614 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poland/Połąńd is a European country. Its population consists of two main ethnicities, the North Połes and the South Połes. < 1438007408 509821 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: can you tell a bit more about the goals of what lisp compiler you want? < 1438007528 80760 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. I just wanted to write a compiler for some restricted LISP-Dialect < 1438007568 883787 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should makenit < 1438007582 943905 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit phone < 1438007598 438313 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you should make it a lithp < 1438007810 155651 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1438007818 412474 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: hmm. ok. < 1438008424 14089 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1438008425 867318 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser is done. < 1438008443 25765 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/RDtFNClF < 1438008445 661923 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love parsing Lisp. < 1438008446 948160 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too easy < 1438008746 568410 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1438008751 230140 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I need a garbage collector? < 1438008764 1545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just let it pile up. < 1438008771 762604 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I meant something else < 1438008790 780041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Require the programmer to call 'free' for every 'cons'. < 1438008794 371995 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1438008797 956042 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like uhm < 1438008818 906243 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cons (foo) (list 1 2)) you can free the (list 1 2) after the cons call < 1438008835 32405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can? < 1438008848 223960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess you can free whatever you want whenever you want. < 1438008852 26137 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1438008853 508822 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1438008854 562282 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1438008877 226323 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait that's not cons < 1438008881 802361 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant append < 1438008907 372026 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reference counting is usually easiest < 1438008911 727985 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't work in all cases < 1438008912 613890 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1438008924 478306 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is: Do you need a case where it doesn't work? < 1438008942 625848 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyclic data structures, right? < 1438008942 731734 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you need cycles? < 1438008947 259834 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1438008949 195034 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need them? < 1438008958 279822 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ban cycles. < 1438008965 243924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Declare them undefined behavior. Done. < 1438008966 868557 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm pointing at, yes. < 1438008968 977862 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ban cycles. < 1438008988 513109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's good enough for Perl, it would be good enough for you. < 1438008990 496702 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not required for turing completeness? < 1438009001 735966 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most data structures arent cyclig < 1438009006 5251 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing completeness is scow. < 1438009021 513838 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should make your lisp thing not be Turing complete. < 1438009022 870120 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, they are not required for turing completeness < 1438009026 996398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing complete things aren't reasonable. < 1438009077 60055 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1438009085 38314 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp doesn't have references wimre? < 1438009088 258216 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1438009093 896406 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutating a list always results in a new one < 1438009103 124308 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you always copy everything you don't need a gc anyway < 1438009128 756069 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you always copy everything you need a gc all the more < 1438009135 37025 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you build up garbage very quickly < 1438009135 460513 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1438009141 632409 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you copy and free immediately < 1438009143 634326 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1438009149 334015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :freemediately < 1438009151 536983 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :append would just create a new list < 1438009160 126066 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy the elements of the two lists into that new list < 1438009164 674322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a man, a plan, append < 1438009165 172000 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then frees the two original lists < 1438009169 239686 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't need no gc < 1438009176 604594 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be horribly slow though < 1438009180 99978 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want horribly slow < 1438009180 816211 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1438009185 946223 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. Reference counting it is. < 1438009247 352658 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1438009247 987255 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1438009262 239651 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp is usually copy-on-write < 1438009264 243029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a real gc < 1438009267 891871 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1438009269 70491 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1438009306 501032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll be correct and simple. < 1438009308 238559 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll guess I make append and append! < 1438009314 653827 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gc needs threading < 1438009320 817154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(usually) < 1438009322 129877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it doesn't? < 1438009325 488074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a stop-the-world GC. < 1438009329 611425 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pff < 1438009332 254975 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even more horrible < 1438009334 304999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You were going to make stop-the-world reference counting. < 1438009350 444676 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1438009356 335773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC and reference counting are the same thing. < 1438009368 992812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/files/us-bacon/Bacon04Unified.pdf < 1438009387 237244 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could use both < 1438009388 847927 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's simple < 1438009391 379853 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :use reference counting < 1438009397 816881 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then from time to time the GC with cycle detection kicks in < 1438009401 606983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except they find the greatest and least fixed points. < 1438009403 928012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pvk.ca/Blog/2012/02/19/fixed-points-and-strike-mandates/ < 1438009442 653070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A moment ago you were talking about copying the entire heap with every instruction. < 1438009463 880934 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is pretty much what a GC would do, except less frequently.) < 1438009768 259866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : lisp doesn't have references wimre? <-- some lisps have mutable cons cells < 1438009778 134032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPLACA < 1438009874 123472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess making it really unpronouncable is one way of warning people away from it. < 1438009899 732501 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme would call that set-car! with the scary exclamation point. < 1438009959 38269 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it create references or copies of its argument into the cons cell in question? < 1438009971 954135 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, it starts mattering < 1438009981 317164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with references you could place a cons cell inside itself) < 1438009994 526051 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : i'll guess I make append and append! < 1438010002 788315 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like this is already the plan < 1438010019 262024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, the plan seemed to be changing every second. < 1438010020 866264 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :append! is for when you're really enthusiastic about your appending < 1438010024 446072 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :RPLACA and NCONC are such good names < 1438010042 291899 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorial! < 1438010071 932302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :every common lisp name is great < 1438010074 84293 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like PROGN < 1438010105 841804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://sprunge.us/eGfb < 1438010129 20469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some implementations would pretty-print that a little better. < 1438010200 493987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, it never crossed my mind that it'd give you an infinite string of open parentheses < 1438010210 163941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the opposite of Lisp in a way < 1438010237 138239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix show < 1438010238 818673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\... < 1438010260 150911 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense. You start at t; it's a cons cell, so you print '(' and then look at the car; that's t, a cons cell, so you print '(' and then look at the car; ... < 1438010305 237916 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, it makes perfect sense < 1438010306 88923 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1438010313 112883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just hadn't realised that that's what would have happened until I saw it < 1438010378 459987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a mzscheme (what was it now, racket?) implementation here, I think it should've printed something like #0=(#0# 2). < 1438010392 675634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that, I forget the exact syntax. < 1438010509 140276 :zadock!~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1438010515 368018 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure that Racket has set-cons! < 1438010520 455648 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or set-car! < 1438010537 681686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of those Schemes with immutable cons cells. < 1438010550 872126 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it had something like 'mcons' for mutable cells, and some pair of setters. < 1438010569 97217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcons, mcar, mcdr, set-mcar! and set-mcdr!, apparently. < 1438010575 981090 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mpair? as the predicate. < 1438010599 708849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how it was when it was still called MzScheme, though. < 1438010649 219848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it switched to immutable cons by default before renaming to Racket. < 1438010659 276226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's possible. < 1438010680 478751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also means you have to jump through hoops to get cyclic lists out of the immutable pairs. < 1438010708 496743 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define t (mcons 1 2)) < 1438010708 551010 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (set-mcar! t t) < 1438010708 551071 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> t < 1438010709 38033 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0=(mcons #0# 2) < 1438010713 124952 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in < 1438010713 230823 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1438010713 285083 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1438010717 978547 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, lambdabot < 1438010721 86150 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1438010721 192361 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1438010725 642248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I got it (almost) right. < 1438010726 735721 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1=( is the best syntax < 1438010747 638415 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: That was an interesting error for the first thing. < 1438010758 903337 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a lambdabot bug. < 1438010761 473096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define t (mcons 1 2)) < 1438010763 279398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘define’ Not in scope: ‘mcons’ < 1438010763 386076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant one of these: < 1438010763 440323 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : ‘cons’ (imported from Control.Lens), < 1438010768 156139 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen it before. < 1438010776 731710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would've been #0=(#0# . 2) before the mcons thing, actually; forgot it was a pair, not a list. < 1438010895 445723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : That's not how it was when it was still called MzScheme, though. <-- i thought racket was PLT scheme? < 1438010964 363059 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was called Dr. Scheme. < 1438010964 942433 :rodgort!~rodgort@2607:5300:100:200::160d QUIT :K-Lined < 1438010973 917591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what now < 1438010975 775946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It was MzScheme before that. < 1438010985 205556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :MzScheme for the engine, and Dr. Scheme for the GUI, or some-such. < 1438010994 421494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it went PLT, then it went Racket. Or that's at least my recollection. < 1438011040 653123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it's a branding thing. < 1438011047 346464 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The company was PLT from the get-go, anyway. < 1438011057 905553 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "mzscheme" was the command-line thing you ran. < 1438011058 829608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought it was PLT for the fancy system, MzScheme for the important scheme interpreter part, < 1438011063 534918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MzScheme was part of PLT Scheme. < 1438011065 629272 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it became Racket as the new branding < 1438011082 579015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end it's all the same software. < 1438011092 742460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a racket < 1438011121 68974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :DrScheme was maybe the teaching-oriented programming environment. < 1438011124 298992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also MrEd. < 1438011143 155588 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear. < 1438011152 597668 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the important part is MzScheme < 1438011153 659942 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old PLT pages say "MzScheme is the name of the core virtual machine for PLT Scheme" and "DrScheme is an interactive, integrated, graphical programming environment that is included with PLT Scheme". < 1438011159 657136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : what now <-- based on my view from another channel, someone possibly just klined ro* < 1438011182 607309 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And MrEd is the thing DrScheme is built on, right. < 1438011186 519990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you can confirm or deny that < 1438011199 755700 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was talking about the many names of plt scheme < 1438011225 608435 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plt-scheme.org/software/ lists the components. < 1438011227 403416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I see several ro* who aren't klined. < 1438011232 992738 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:29:24 --- rodgort has quit [K-Lined] < 1438011234 937830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you dismiss the Racket ads, anyway.) < 1438011256 362474 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is there a reason not to mention that name?) < 1438011275 637391 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I think oerjan is saying that everyone matching /^ro.*/ was klined. < 1438011287 972359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also now you've done it < 1438011308 471326 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa < 1438011325 932833 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's a botnet connecting with all ro* names at first < 1438011331 149887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i didn't know oerjan was in any other channels < 1438011355 995674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, let's focus on what's important. Such a lack of channel loyalty. < 1438011362 426056 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i'm in ##nomic, where Roujo just got klined at the same time < 1438011375 51998 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen stuff like that, they connect twenty bots all with similar names, they start to spam, people ban them with a pattern and rejoice thinking they won, bot owner modifies pattern and connects twenty new bots, repeat < 1438011376 433742 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see an ro* in a channel who isnt klined < 1438011388 978970 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely ro* people who weren't k-lined < 1438011393 576058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my nomic loyalty is far older than my esolang loyalty, so there. although it's somewhat lapsed. < 1438011394 92688 :x1365C!~x10A94@euro214.vpnbook.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438011439 461419 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, I see ro* nicks connected < 1438011444 514054 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not all of them are k-lined < 1438011447 815626 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be stupid) < 1438011451 391165 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one i see is not logged in either < 1438011463 130243 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er authenticated < 1438011590 392367 :rodgort!~rodgort@105.ip-167-114-152.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438011614 746449 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :He lives! < 1438011626 365905 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me note that there's at least one freenode staffer logged in right now whose nick matches ro* < 1438011636 442067 :x10A94!x10A94@178.252.73.97 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1438011682 404287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all people cannot convince me with your stupid evidence < 1438011721 105709 :roejan!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1438011729 441026 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1438011731 369398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :coincidence? < 1438011744 232889 :roejan!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1438011764 144642 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can't tell which overlord is evil < 1438011782 953633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i may have to do a ban_jos if this escalates < 1438011785 197340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: roejan has a suspiciously similar hostname to b_jonas < 1438011795 599564 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all ahead of you < 1438011797 164923 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I noticed. < 1438011808 663039 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's pun was better, though. < 1438011816 569756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not fair, I had to type my sentence < 1438011824 769770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wasn't making a pun < 1438011832 226099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and oerjan is one of the few people who's allowed to make /good/ puns < 1438011836 348285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they're supposed to be bad < 1438011843 289158 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1438011851 348945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan's pun didn't need to be very good to be better than no pun at all. < 1438011869 845162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you'll rue the month you decided to impersonate oerjan < 1438011874 350213 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the month is january) < 1438011885 329730 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's an example of a worse pun) < 1438011924 942005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if you get a reputation for everything you say being a pun < 1438011932 508610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually you can just say a non sequitur < 1438011937 644019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone assumes it's a pun but it's so subtle they can't spot it < 1438011953 20946 :roejan!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sorry, "roen" was already in use, I didn't have much cohice < 1438011969 456919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oerjan's puns may be good, but are they fun? < 1438011982 552506 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.xkcd.com/559/ < 1438011998 762737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that's the first pun in rot-13 I've seen < 1438012076 472267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : normally they're supposed to be bad <-- wait, what, this changes everything! < 1438012094 656960 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1438012137 521177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i say enough non sequiturs ais523 will sure quit < 1438012160 449000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't a non sequitur though < 1438012164 250024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm planning to quit soon anyway < 1438012169 975113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to go home < 1438012177 150740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whoa whoa whoa < 1438012247 820911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you are so easily overwhelmed < 1438012257 82390 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i wouldn't say i'm overwhelmed < 1438012259 799743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally Roujo returned < 1438012260 224473 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just whelmed < 1438012267 148928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=378429 < 1438012309 220592 :x1365C!~x10A94@euro214.vpnbook.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438012339 916560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` rot13 rue # i don't think i'm getting this < 1438012340 558797 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehr < 1438012344 746931 :x10A94!~x10A94@euro214.vpnbook.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438012364 141254 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now i can't tell whether that's a hidden pun < 1438012369 524731 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mission accomplished < 1438012405 850146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if it is in fact us trolling you rather than vice versa, you might be looking at the wrong line < 1438012446 186550 :roejan!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438012462 355744 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah. < 1438012489 787222 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rot13 good, good < 1438012490 431471 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbbq, tbbq < 1438012491 488246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm relieved, i thought shachaf actually meant that literally. < 1438012546 747374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to quote the ancients, furrfu < 1438012575 717935 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa whoa whoa < 1438012581 509424 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know nfurrfu? < 1438012605 359780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1438012624 211327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1438012639 129559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it's rot13 < 1438012647 992535 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :from old usenet < 1438012679 306179 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it linked with 'fnord'? < 1438012692 39350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord isn't rot13 < 1438012710 620290 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-kjeciaghueulncat QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1438012714 170051 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but it shows up in certain places. sheesh. < 1438012722 11348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so was mine hth < 1438012729 326563 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices scary concentrations of belgians < 1438012761 428165 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well but "asheesh" didn't ring any bell... < 1438012775 383024 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hallo|bonjour|guten tag), GoToTell! < 1438012780 345890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a p. common name < 1438012792 183426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashish -- apparently this variant is mentioned in India's national anthem < 1438012794 447317 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hallo, mauris. Ook belg? < 1438012804 33605 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that page says "it's" instead of "its" < 1438012813 553881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm trying not to tell you about those things anymore < 1438012814 381137 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1438012833 427503 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. it's good looking at people's IRC hostnames and deducing that they live a 2 hour drive away, tops < 1438012833 876399 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ohpgklnixaamfvot JOIN :#esoteric < 1438012836 68264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ic, it's not common where i've been previously acquainted < 1438012854 496940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: how long does it take to drive to the UK from where you are? < 1438012854 602909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how common it is. < 1438012861 178934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually confused trying to work it out < 1438012871 61344 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I suck at north European geography < 1438012878 826895 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and partly because I'm not quite sure how to count the ferry/tunnel < 1438013025 32761 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :shorter than i thought: https://goo.gl/maps/khNJf < 1438013041 979562 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Did you publish your thesis? < 1438013063 494320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I actually sent the finished manuscript to the printers today < 1438013075 760542 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll have the printed versions finished on Friday < 1438013103 413357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll submit the electronic versions then; I don't know when they'll be printed < 1438013105 548475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, online < 1438013108 6199 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ohpgklnixaamfvot QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438013125 749929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll print them, scan them, and put the scans online. < 1438013136 812013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nah, they were sensible and asked me for a PDF < 1438013145 282508 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, cool stuff, what's the thesis about? < 1438013151 717902 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one with hyperlinks and clickable internal cross-references and accessibility tagging and the like < 1438013155 635785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: finite-state type systems < 1438013167 186751 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-marinxhvqbgwjbgm JOIN :#esoteric < 1438013188 756360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't have one like that, because our thesis series template didn't want to play nice with hyperref. But maybe I can fix that later. < 1438013193 224793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. languages in which programs provably use only finite memory < 1438013209 524726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I made my own thesis series template; our regulations just say "such and such text X/Y distance from the margins" < 1438013234 197271 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a while of messing around with minipages to get that right < 1438013246 956539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have a fully-fledged thing with lots of crufty stuff. < 1438013273 412286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's not mandatory, but it seemed like the sensible choice. < 1438013274 620818 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much our entire process assumes you're using Word, without actively stating it anywhere < 1438013280 126613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being open for other editors in theory < 1438013290 906811 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I do use a different editor (LyX, in my case), it gets a little confusing < 1438013321 137885 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are only four begin/end minipage pairs in the .cls file. < 1438013397 907476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this is a major bug: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/issues/1296 < 1438013404 677874 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken TCO in .NET 4.6 < 1438013413 86856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that parameter values can change silently, and only in release builds < 1438013427 811285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I understand the theory of doing all debugging without optimization, then using optimization only for a release build < 1438013453 309742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because bugs that are only exposed by optimization then won't be caught by your tests < 1438013472 554160 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does sound, not ideal < 1438013586 515430 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: 3.5 hours is not all that far < 1438013621 277736 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought debugging would be done last, and optimization only saved for after all other non-debugging changes. < 1438013647 49044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually like to do test builds at high optimization levels if I can < 1438013664 782792 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you get better warnings, and UB is more likely to break in a visible way < 1438013705 241765 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought it'd be obvious that the build you test (at least for some largeish fraction of testing) is the build you'll be shipping. < 1438013741 421862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many people test at -O0 and ship at -O2 or -O3 < 1438013749 319965 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's debugging, there's testing, and then there's end-user testing. < 1438013757 78692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in NH4 I test at -Og on the Linux side, and I test at release settings on the Windows side < 1438013764 417284 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I just meant that if you're going to do optimization later, it'd make sense to still have debugging later. < 1438013764 960485 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose people might confuse those things. < 1438013772 512971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my release settings include -g, to increase the chance I get useful bug reports) < 1438013790 243194 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think every software development team does everything in the same kind sof stages. < 1438013860 864105 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what does Uwe Boll have to do with this and how can code make him visibly break? < 1438013964 840493 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I just have no idea what I'm talking about then. < 1438014012 740721 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And alaos ocnfusing manual and automatic optimization. < 1438014041 900601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1438014064 761741 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose UB could summon Uwe Boll, but only if you're a really bad person. < 1438014071 314489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438014161 789545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1438014174 339812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438014199 110311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, what does Uwe Boll have to do with this and how can code make him visibly break? <-- i'm sorry i don't get the pun twh < 1438014204 612291 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1438014220 644689 :MDude!~fyrc@pa-67-235-0-195.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wans't sure what UB stood for. < 1438014236 486845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, UB = undefined behaviour < 1438014247 156788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty commonly seen phrase among C programmers, also in #esoteric < 1438014290 890662 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many other languages use the term (or an equivalent term)? < 1438014342 781758 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the languages which have the concept use it, I think < 1438014350 208420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many languages intentionally avoid the concept < 1438014357 936794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Undefined_behavior < 1438014372 917894 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :UB could also be blue-black. < 1438014399 405959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr there are some people who wouldn't mind Uwe Boll visibly breaking < 1438014454 980456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm surprised that Uwe Boll comes up in conversation sufficiently often to be worth abbreviating < 1438014458 333961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid evening sun < 1438014503 20285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you know if there are statistics about color choices in limited M:tG games? < 1438014521 772550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In particular the variance of different color combinations in drafts, and that sort of thing. < 1438014523 544745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm people with only two words in their name probably are less likely to get an abbreviation. < 1438014529 167435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe data to measure these things from? < 1438014536 659748 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, UB is special in some sense because once UB ever appears (even in your future, not just present, I think), you can no longer rely on anything working ever again. The same could be said about undefined behaviour, too. < 1438014561 610612 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I know that the playtesters do them internally < 1438014568 310160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, color balance in drafts is not normally a useful measure < 1438014578 758119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's exactly balanced because every card has to be picked by someone < 1438014606 887228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could check color balance of decks that are actually played, but even then draft's self-correcting because worse colours tend to be more open < 1438014765 367911 :Wright!~Wright@c-98-225-44-92.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1438014767 321850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`le/rn uwe boll/Uwe Boll is the undefined behavior of cinematography. < 1438014770 600771 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Learned «uwe boll» < 1438014864 820598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd like a large data set of real mtg limited games to look at, but I doubt a good one is easily obtainable. < 1438014907 937413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: apparently Wizards have asked people with access to that sort of data (like StarCityGames) to not make it public, in order to slow down the rate at which formats are broken < 1438014975 426398 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The situation with sealed is pretty different from draft, and would be interesting to know too. < 1438015015 660162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: this is actually why most Wizards internal playtests are sealed < 1438015028 779420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if anyone collects that data, though; most large sealed tournaments are casual < 1438015213 383703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sure mtgo collects it. < 1438015250 15562 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtgo's incompetent enough that maybe it doesn't < 1438015289 842280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that data would be very helpful to them in designing new sets, though, I imagine. < 1438015353 704951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1438015484 724343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: bear in mind that this is the game that failed during its most important tournament of the year, and lost all its data about the state of the tournament at that point in the process < 1438015533 588570 :white_bear!~white_bea@106-185-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1438015814 221913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1438016008 956095 :atrapa!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado JOIN :#esoteric < 1438016096 622405 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1438016304 923584 :atrapa!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado NICK :atrapado < 1438016469 518541 :x10A94!~x10A94@euro214.vpnbook.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438016698 963384 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438016866 883975 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode ✊👊 < 1438016868 79721 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+270A RAISED FIST \ UTF-8: e2 9c 8a UTF-16BE: 270a Decimal: ✊ \ ✊ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ \ U+1F44A FISTED HAND SIGN \ UTF-8: f0 9f 91 8a UTF-16BE: d83ddc4a Decimal: 👊 \ 👊 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) < 1438016888 138815 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438016891 47992 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar/The command you're looking for is probably either tar -xavkf or tar -cavf < 1438016897 937429 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not true. < 1438016944 468005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/tar < 1438016946 13804 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1438017022 144427 :fowl!fowl@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-urfvdsnwrhicltkn PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didnt know wisdoms had to be true < 1438017078 229550 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1438017086 537305 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't. < 1438017248 895890 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wisdom < 1438017249 807029 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack/ you play too much nethack when: you look down both sides of the corridor, start to sweat and then realize you're looking at your email address < 1438017546 364397 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command is "tar c", "tar t", or "tar x", although there are other options too < 1438017666 148779 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1438017708 161557 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Those three are the only options I have used though) < 1438017806 335060 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some useful ones are: f = filename of tarball; v = print files as extracted or compressed, or print more than filenames for listing; z = pack to gzip; j = pack to bzip2; J = pack to xz; plus some more complicated ones for when you want to control list of files, I think they're -I listfile --null --no-recurse < 1438017812 118082 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually tar xf < 1438017900 573866 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days I try to copy files with rsync -tve "sudo -u" someuser:source dest instead of sudo -u someuser tar c source | tar xvC dest < 1438017927 575990 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, another important switch I use is: C = filenames except for name of tarball is relative to this directory < 1438017953 657202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use pipes and do not need most of the commands it provides. < 1438017989 849180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want the files inside of the archive in a different directory I can just switch to that directory. < 1438018018 406114 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sure, and you can (cd foo && make) instead of make -C foo < 1438018023 553320 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still convenient enough that I use it a lot < 1438018070 242349 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if foo is a directory you can't even execute to, compare (sudo -u someuser tar cC foo .) to (sudo -u someuser sh -c 'cd foo && tar c .') < 1438018080 887811 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets cumbersome < 1438018092 76399 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch is there for a good reason < 1438018126 853726 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I think cd should be a convenience thing, and you can use absolute paths if you want most of the time. this doesn't work with tar: < 1438018135 798697 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :you play too much nethack when: that nethack joke becomes profoundly unfunny for you :( < 1438018177 593101 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't (usually) rewrite filenames between the file system and the tarball, so if you want a file to be named ./bar in the tarball, you have to cd to its directory or else use the -C option (which does that) < 1438018191 479265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some programs do not need any command-line arguments at all; AmigaMML currently ignores any it may be given. < 1438018262 514482 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If a program doesn't need command-line arguments at all, I prefer that it gives an error if it gets any. < 1438018278 569432 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, that might be better, but the current version does not. < 1438018279 767956 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: except for true and false and : which shouldn't do that < 1438018290 479209 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: there's the contentious question on what true --help should do < 1438018308 918431 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I've done a lot of "program input" instead of "cat input | program" where I wish the program had failed. < 1438018324 304928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: As far as I am concerned, it should do nothing < 1438018325 698618 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also what false --help < 1438018327 520338 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438018328 425892 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Maybe < 1438018340 888755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: And false --help should fail. < 1438018384 320538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about true --help and false --help < 1438018390 207797 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I slightly care about echo --help < 1438018404 913127 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an underlying problem that people aren't even sure what foo --help should do in general: should it exit with success or failure status, and should it print help to stdout or stderr (or depending on isatty results) < 1438018406 976726 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash is a bit of a hack, huh < 1438018430 937069 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1438018447 280259 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For help you can just use a man page < 1438018457 171518 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, implementations agree in that true --help should exit success, and false --help should exit failure, but they differ in what they print < 1438018488 477205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Well, yes that is one way too I suppose < 1438018502 438338 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: man page? ok, how about true --version < 1438018512 832283 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does that give no useful information because who cares about the version of true? < 1438018527 845650 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: That program doesn't need a version number < 1438018568 339509 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: note that --version customarily prints the license information for programs where just invoking it without argument doesn't, < 1438018584 119064 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some licenses may require that the binary should be able to give a notice about license informatoin < 1438018593 834777 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you know that it uses code by the reagents of whatever < 1438018620 214751 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's still a case for saying that screw it, true and false can ignore it as long as the other programs in coreutils or other builtins in bash do tell you that info < 1438018634 640430 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can just make /bin/true and /bin/false public domain < 1438018685 48464 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo is different because it already must handle at least _some_ switches < 1438018698 470369 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1438018712 977740 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose yes that it can be useful for AmigaMML to display error in case any unrecognized switches are given, since even though there are no recognized one now, in future it is possible that later version might add switches to output debugging information for use with a IDE, or whatever < 1438018716 742658 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I think echo genuinely has to be different between the shell version and the /bin/echo or something? I don't follow, it's complicated < 1438018741 337849 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it could display a non-fatal warning < 1438018790 993645 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could be a possible too I suppose < 1438018876 927306 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently though what it does is, it reads MML code from stdin, writes out a MOD or XM to stdout, and displays the number of rows emitted per channel on stderr. In case of error it will display an error message to stderr, write nothing to stdout, and a nonzero exit code. < 1438019014 132586 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To create a IDE for AmigaMML, I am not exactly sure which options would be useful to add < 1438019637 330405 :`^_^!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438019784 864093 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438020670 2642 :SopaXT!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438020908 326231 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1438020973 247720 :`^_^v!~nycs@38.125.127.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438021059 329166 :`^_^!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1438021235 481373 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1438021243 428900 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1438022514 479234 :`^_^v!~nycs@38.125.127.189 QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1438022576 262025 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1438023212 510308 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-56-9.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438023770 418332 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438023967 88844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1438024221 88649 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438024268 274157 :Slereah__!~Slereah@APuteaux-653-1-76-94.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/LNzA9au.png < 1438024319 515777 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacking for dummies < 1438024359 839836 :Slereah__!~Slereah@APuteaux-653-1-76-94.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a leet haxx < 1438024361 904673 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sams book too! are those the ones that promise to teach you C++ exponentially faster over time, and we're down to 10 minutes < 1438024382 181273 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-Minutes-Edition/dp/0672324253 mmm < 1438024472 946714 :Slereah__!~Slereah@APuteaux-653-1-76-94.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I want to learn C++ in any amount of time, though < 1438024525 645844 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438024562 321356 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1438025188 734170 :henriqueleng!~henrique@187-5-246-165.paebv701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br JOIN :#esoteric < 1438026705 599700 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hacking for dummies < 1438026706 524948 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1438026915 96489 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07LOLCODE14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43600&oldid=42122 5* 0370.185.102.142 5* (-101) 10/* Keywords */ < 1438027111 914181 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Doorspace14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43601&oldid=40970 5* 03174.236.84.154 5* (-1) 10/* Introduction */ < 1438027432 29760 :TieSoul!~quassel@2a02:a448:4a62:0:548d:2bb6:e105:b48e QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438027810 17683 :GoToTell!~GotoTell@62-205-90-93.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :) < 1438028528 840870 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today’s result: In Idris, every Monad is also a monadic value! < 1438028888 36134 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh got < 1438028889 573836 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*god < 1438029034 798066 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Stream; return $ Either x y < 1438029034 908221 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13i => 12Either (12List 13i) (12Stream 13i) : 12Type -> 12Type < 1438029072 825525 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1438029582 644101 :hppavilion[1]!423aab85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.171.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438029587 666796 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: I hate you < 1438030168 334283 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell fizzie what does finnish "liemme" mean? < 1438030168 560865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1438030210 218606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: It's kind of hard. I think it might be a first-person plural potential case of the verb "be". < 1438030231 173300 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: something like "we probably are" < 1438030245 75160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, or "we might be". < 1438030291 507319 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. google translate was being useless about it for some reason, but that makes sense! < 1438030302 686953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "be" verb has a rather nonstandard potential form. < 1438030306 869253 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does anyone handle finnish though. < 1438030331 467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "lienemme" would also be a valid way to say it, and in fact that's what's the first-person plural potential in the table at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/olla#Conjugation < 1438030355 818759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But there's a French wiktionary page that uses "liemme" for the same thing.) < 1438030410 77483 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The potential mood for verbs is overall pretty rarely used. < 1438030435 213040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're being deliberately fancy, or just naturally so. < 1438030487 594678 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is it like an archaic/poetic thing? this is from värttinä lyrics, so that'd make sense < 1438030510 663189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a little bit. It's not *that* archaic, you can still see it in a newspaper and it doesn't necessarily feel weird. < 1438030649 943959 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'd certainly see it written more often than spoken. < 1438030666 68606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I guess you wouldn't normally *see* it spoken ever, but... < 1438030743 641737 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In related news, the bus this morning had a sign that said approximately: "Do not speak to or obstruct the driver's vision while --", and I couldn't help wondering how you'd speak to the driver's vision. < 1438031000 97007 :Hoolootwo!~Hooloovoo@sorunome.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the driver has synesthesia < 1438031259 177215 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh dear. Why? < 1438031342 750280 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: you've made me see things I can't unsee < 1438031350 82793 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ω. < 1438031435 849647 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-14-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1438031459 471596 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return (x, y) < 1438031459 577630 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13i => 04(12List 13i04, 12Either (12List 13i) 13i04) : 12Type -> 12(12Type12, 12Type12) < 1438031468 667742 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-14-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1438031468 722085 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1438031496 173840 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ the Type (x, y) < 1438031496 281991 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13i => 12(12List 13i12, 12Either (12List 13i) 13i12) : 12Type -> 12Type < 1438031553 338113 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (do x <- (+1); y <- (+2); return (x*y)) [0..] < 1438031554 820168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,6,12,20,30,42,56,72,90,110,132,156,182,210,240,272,306,342,380,420,462,50... < 1438031733 860999 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is the reader monad really so much worse on the type level than on the value level? < 1438031934 360964 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1438032204 574373 :J_A_Work!~J_Arcane@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1438032204 666743 :J_A_Work!~J_Arcane@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Client Quit < 1438032370 367208 :Alcest!~alcest@93.186.169.30 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1438032464 117004 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1438032581 365108 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1438032664 571703 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Tangle bracket language14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43602&oldid=43565 5* 03Rottytooth 5* (+235) 10added question < 1438032815 328194 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh will you look at that, there was an actual GG comic last Friday... < 1438032905 438268 :Alcest!~alcest@93.186.169.30 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438033596 494540 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438033859 390506 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438033916 324713 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1438034072 625732 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1438034165 450017 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1438034165 739826 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 272130Z 16013KT 15SM BKN040CB BKN240 27/21 A2991 RMK CB5CI2 WSHFT 2115 CB E SLP126 DENSITY ALT 1500FT < 1438034183 888751 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, BKN040CB! :D < 1438034245 831636 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rain rain rain, it shall raaaaain ♪ < 1438034277 908503 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LOWI < 1438034278 121504 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 272150Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 FEW090 16/13 Q1012 < 1438034341 671003 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :great summer weather. (max. 25 today, somewhat rainy) < 1438034416 2680 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-ello. is it generally humid in Austria? < 1438034446 331691 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl JOIN :#esoteric < 1438034458 75422 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Austria in general. Innsbruck is actually fairly dry overall. I welcome the rain. < 1438034513 91860 :mauris!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1438034575 161931 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't like heat very much.) < 1438034591 275146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1438034619 246538 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same about not supporting heat. < 1438034689 761753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we only support 0 K, for best efficiency < 1438034712 407607 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-27-215.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1438034761 305570 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438034805 604591 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP130-01-1242511728.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1438034850 520494 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, 904mm rain/year ... actually that's more than I thought. < 1438034855 177054 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Today’s result: In Idris, every Monad is also a monadic value! < 1438034889 155270 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: EXCELLENT < 1438034896 232327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in which monad?) < 1438034901 195315 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ the Type (x, y) < 1438034901 408977 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13i => 12(12List 13i12, 12Either (12List 13i) 13i12) : 12Type -> 12Type < 1438034909 622114 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1438034955 909217 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unwrapped reader monad, because they must have type (Type -> Type). < 1438034964 20681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1438034982 138884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that even makes sense < 1438035034 289819 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, coppro now hates me for showing this. < 1438035047 516700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ Left [] < 1438035047 661156 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):No such variable elem < 1438035052 966541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1438035057 728316 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1438035070 137107 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1438035089 152628 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ the y (Left []) < 1438035089 368133 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:43:When checking argument 13value to function 09Prelude.Basics.the: < 1438035089 423926 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : Type mismatch between < 1438035089 423964 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12Either (12List elem) 13b (Type of 04Left 04[]) < 1438035089 423986 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : and < 1438035089 424005 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13y (Expected type) < 1438035118 635481 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1438035122 759637 :odor!~o@209.159.220.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1438035125 364139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ the (y x) (Left []) < 1438035125 470241 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't disambiguate since no alternative is valid: < 1438035125 578106 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 09Effects.>>=, 09BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, 09Prelude.Monad.>>= < 1438035132 348945 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting closer < 1438035157 217521 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :y is a lambda arg of type Type there. < 1438035162 572948 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl PRIVMSG #esoteric :idris is scary < 1438035164 356068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1438035182 859762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait why didn't the y (Left []) work then < 1438035201 85073 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can’t tell what it might be. It’s just a lambda arg that gets something passed in later. < 1438035209 648808 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not the (y (Left [])) ? < 1438035224 168458 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is likely wrong < 1438035227 374113 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: No. < 1438035228 623047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: um no? the takes two arguments < 1438035308 228562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ Left [] < 1438035308 338743 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):No such variable elem < 1438035361 174850 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don’t know what that one is on about, but apparently it’s talking about an implicit argument that gets quantified wrong somewhere. < 1438035401 201885 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ Left {b=Type} [] < 1438035401 344406 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):No such variable elem < 1438035419 967239 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh durp. < 1438035437 660857 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ Left {b=Type} (the (List Int) []) < 1438035437 873535 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :do 12List < 1438035437 979307 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12Either x < 1438035438 33595 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 09return (04Left (09the (12List 12Int) 04[])) : 12Type -> 12Either (12List 12Int) 12Type < 1438035475 513148 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ Left {b=Type} (the (List Int) []) < 1438035475 621057 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :\13i => 04Left 04[] : 12Type -> 12Either (12List 12Int) 12Type < 1438035536 407728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( (do x <- List; y <- Either x; return $ the y (Left [])) Bool < 1438035536 462052 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:57:Can't disambiguate since no alternative is valid: < 1438035536 516419 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 09Effects.>>=, 09BotPrelude.LiftEq.>>=, 09Prelude.Monad.>>= < 1438035581 716475 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ambles back to haskell < 1438035587 719406 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you there’s nothing known about y because it’s just a lambda arg. < 1438035628 816757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i thought maybe giving it the argument would solve that < 1438035649 795264 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it’s just not well-typed in the first place. < 1438035692 157105 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438035709 639047 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Left < 1438035710 816057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> Either a b < 1438035711 740936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1438035716 332968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t Left < 1438035716 441761 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :04Left : 13a -> 12Either 13a 13b < 1438035746 794555 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is exactly the same type < 1438035749 494397 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just more colourful < 1438035754 634682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1438035777 83437 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> :t \y => return $ the y (Left []) < 1438035778 319371 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ < 1438035782 687248 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t \y => return $ the y (Left []) < 1438035782 793015 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't disambiguate name: 09Effects.return, 09Prelude.Monad.return < 1438035783 470810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevertheless, it answered my question after a little consideration < 1438035818 453045 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t \y => Monad.return {m = (\a => Type -> a)} $ the y (Left []) < 1438035837 476663 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1438035837 830840 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz QUIT :Client Quit < 1438035862 89483 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@ip-78-102-58-167.net.upcbroadband.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1438035962 998447 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( () < 1438036015 216398 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1438036030 902198 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue what that fail was about. < 1438036040 21129 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1438036059 583654 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :As though it lost the network but neither side noticed. < 1438036121 416176 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t \y => Monad.return {m = (\a => Type -> a)} $ the y (Left []) < 1438036121 470433 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:53:When checking argument 13value to function 09Prelude.Basics.the: < 1438036121 524897 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : Type mismatch between < 1438036121 524943 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12Either (12List elem) 13b (Type of 04Left 04[]) < 1438036121 524964 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : and < 1438036121 524982 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13y (Expected type) < 1438036331 805134 :hilquias!~user@unaffiliated/hilquias QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1438036420 831984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :( () < 1438036420 922735 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :04() : 12() < 1438037000 391490 :mauris_!~mauris@unaffiliated/nooodl QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1438037325 362598 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1438037325 826436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 272200Z 17009KT 15SM BKN040TCU BKN240 27/20 A2990 RMK TCU6CI1 SLP125 DENSITY ALT 1500FT < 1438037349 242843 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rubs his hands together and cackles evily < 1438037357 985325 :atrapado!~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1438037376 209355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EGLL < 1438037376 882522 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :EGLL 272220Z 24014KT 9999 SCT022 SCT024 15/11 Q1004 < 1438037395 654014 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is starting to feel like a Finnish summer. < 1438037551 233027 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EG is not Finland. did you illegally bring weather across states lines? < 1438037889 634357 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TOWERING CHICKEN < 1438037911 18648 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1438038774 623590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1438038775 146590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 272250Z 22005KT 190V250 9999 FEW030 09/07 Q1001 RMK WIND 670FT 24009KT < 1438038802 517058 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :noily < 1438039806 375000 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1438040899 287301 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1438040955 326261 :idris-bot!~idris-bot@dslb-088-076-099-249.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1438040986 100666 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds