00:00:00 apparently arbitrary limits can be constructed from products and equalizers 00:00:07 so i'd just need to figure out how to do equalizers 00:01:08 Sure. But Haskell doesn't have equalizers, for instance. 00:01:31 yeah, maybe some types could be.. equalizable? 00:01:41 Easier with dependent types. :-) 00:01:54 :s 00:09:39 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:11:44 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:32:39 When parsing a multipart/form-data block is it necessary to consider base64 and quoted-printable encodings? 00:36:07 Yes, it explicitly may be encoded as such. 00:36:22 (RFC2388) 00:37:53 -!- trout has changed nick to constant. 00:38:01 At least cURL seems to only use binary encodings when sending data 00:38:42 But, I can try to detect it anyways, if I can write a C code to decode base64 encodings. 00:39:12 It will be stated in the headers of the multipart/form-data block. 00:39:18 (content-transfer-encoding) 00:39:26 Yes I know it is mentioned there 00:40:20 Before reading the data, it is necessary to figure out the transfer encoding, field name, and if applicable the MIME type. 00:48:41 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 00:57:17 -!- variable has joined. 01:47:03 `` mv bin/mk{e,x} 01:47:05 No output. 01:53:23 -!- Wright_ has joined. 01:53:23 -!- Wright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:00:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TRIBUTARY CHICKEN). 02:08:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:46 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:19:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:25:25 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 02:38:46 `? piet 02:38:46 ​Piet is a really colorful programming language. 02:43:25 `` type ? 02:43:25 bash: line 0: type: 0: not found 02:43:43 wtf... 02:43:55 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Don't bother clicking here.]]": Vandalism: content was: "I did actually fucking bother. #firstworldanarchism" (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/85.0.153.1|85.0.153.1]]") 02:45:13 `` type "?" 02:45:14 ​? is /hackenv/bin/? 02:45:16 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:85.0.153.1]] with an expiry time of 1 month (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Why isn't "Vandalism" listed as a block reason? 02:45:33 `` file /hackenv/bin/"?" 02:45:35 ​/hackenv/bin/?: POSIX shell script, UTF-8 Unicode text executable 02:45:41 `` cat /hackenv/bin/"?" 02:45:42 ​#!/bin/sh \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "$topic1" = "ngevd" \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic" | rnooodl; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1" | rnooodl; \ 02:46:20 can it export to a pastebin? 02:46:48 sh scripts 02:46:56 the original esoteric language 02:46:57 `cat bin/pastewisdom 02:46:59 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 02:47:26 hm that's nonmodular 02:48:00 `` sed -i '2curl wisdom' bin/pastewisdom 02:48:02 No output. 02:48:06 `pastewisdom 02:48:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom 02:49:03 izabera: see also wisdom.pdf in topic 02:49:06 there's a 48 byte zork :o 02:49:10 ok 02:49:12 thanks 02:52:18 `` ls wisdom/unlambda* 02:52:19 wisdom/unlambda 03:00:55 Today's interesting neural net quote: 03:00:59 19:39:12: mroman_.(the post the the other the esoteric and international out out around on wiki: . (For the other th other and design esoteric information, the international hub wiki: (watching ", expected prefixible for type crapped and probably obviously)" index. <= <-- you could many bit on the point of expression 03:00:59 of scope: (general vocale constructor script to the top of what the manipulate "know" and better for lambdabot ...)) \ command \ std 03:02:57 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:08:48 -!- bb010g has joined. 03:20:35 tswett: what was your nick before tsweet? i forget 03:21:06 ihope. But dang, that was a long time ago. 03:21:17 oh yes ihope 03:22:07 The corresponding greeting is, of course, "ihellope". 03:22:34 lol 03:22:57 -!- password2 has joined. 03:25:03 `wisdom 03:25:04 bird/bird bird bird bird 03:25:32 `wisdom 03:25:33 footnote 8/Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes? 03:25:36 `wisdom 03:25:36 right/Right is not two wrongs but three lefts. 03:28:16 `? footnote 1 03:28:17 footnote 1? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:28:36 `` ls wisdom/footnote* 03:28:37 wisdom/footnote 8 03:28:47 Mmhmm. 03:28:53 `wisdom 03:28:53 kmc/kmc ran the International Devious Code Contest of 2013 03:28:58 `wisdom 03:29:00 ​ /  is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. 03:29:03 `wisdom 03:29:04 color/Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulh 03:29:08 `wisdom 03:29:09 tdh/tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 03:29:26 tdnh 03:29:42 It's a little broken due to canary trouble lately. <-- i think possibly `revert has trouble with reverting file creation? and that it may be unrelated to the canary. 03:30:04 Did we have canary errors before that fateful day? 03:30:11 not that i recall. 03:30:56 you're either wisdom or againsdom 03:31:27 the error is pretty consistent with someone doing rm canary.orig and not expecting that some fool may have turned it into a directory. 03:32:38 `wisdom 03:32:39 olist/Update notification for the webcomic Order of the Stick. 03:33:25 `` echo uuu >> wisdom/color 03:33:28 No output. 03:33:30 `? color 03:33:30 ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:33:37 Wait. 03:33:44 `cat wisdom/color 03:33:44 ​Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:33:54 Did my echo do anything at all? 03:34:13 tswett: (1) we do _not_ >> into wisdoms. (2) it's actually just a cut off line. 03:34:23 `revert 03:34:24 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 03:34:39 `` tail -c +10 wisdom/color 03:34:40 0olor is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. 03:34:56 oerjan: why do you hate newlines twh 03:34:57 erm 03:34:58 `? newline 03:34:59 Newlines are le/rn's \ biggest weakness. 03:35:04 `` tail -c 10 wisdom/color 03:35:05 ​hu. 03:35:23 shachaf: because they make wisdoms ugly. 03:36:01 do you hate wisdom/newline 03:36:29 Does >> add a newline at the beginning of the appended stuff? 03:36:42 tswett: no, there's already a newline at the end 03:37:12 also, `learn_append 03:37:13 maybe wisdoms shouldn't have a newline at the end hth 03:38:14 oerjan: right, right. 03:38:41 i'm tempted to alter learn and le/rn and so on to use echo -n and remove newlines from all the wisdoms 03:38:51 poor boily 03:39:02 but that would modify the culprits list 03:39:05 which is scow 03:40:07 shachaf: the thing is, it will _still_ not help with people doing >> because _they_ aren't going to know about removing newlines from what they add. 03:40:30 sure, but other people can use echo -n >> 03:41:02 rather than learn_append which maybe doesn't work for entries with spaces in their names and so on 03:41:15 and also has a scow name 03:41:21 `` ls bin/*_* 03:41:22 bin/learn_append \ bin/learn_append2 \ bin/print_args_or_input 03:41:42 `cat bin/learn_append2 03:41:45 ​#!/bin/bash 03:41:48 `culprits bin/learn_append2 03:41:49 mroman_ mroman_ 03:41:50 useful 03:43:22 `? scow 03:43:23 scow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:46:49 -!- Wright_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:48:29 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 04:00:07 copumpkin: whoa, that picture is great 04:00:28 We can make RDF file which is categorizing the HackEgo wisdom files by date, user, history, arbitrary tags, etc. RDF requires strings to consist only of Unicode codepoints (with a few exceptions), but it does have a way to represent arbitrary binary data so you can use that if the file contains invalid or non-canonical UTF-8 sequences or null bytes. 04:01:25 However, the other problem is if the filename contains invalid UTF-8 sequences. I have a way around that too though. URIs in a RDF document that contain non-ASCII characters are *not* supposed to be percent-encoded or Punycode-encoded. If the filename contains invalid UTF-8 sequences, I suggest percent-encoding them anyways. 04:02:57 (My own RDF parser doesn't care about invalid UTF-8 sequences but it is possible that others will, so for compatibility reasons it must be considered.) 04:04:57 -!- Wright has joined. 04:05:37 The picture in question is http://i.imgur.com/6ocuQsZ.jpg 04:06:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 04:07:07 -!- oerjan has kicked shachaf Linking NSFL pictures. 04:07:11 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 04:08:43 -!- shachaf has joined. 04:09:18 oerjan: I can't tell if that's serious or not. 04:09:30 neither can i hth 04:09:32 But it messed up my irssi windows, since I have it set up to reuse windows and I got a /msg 04:09:49 zzo38: http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/3a1ebc/image_generated_by_a_convolutional_network/a 04:10:31 I mean http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/3a1ebc/image_generated_by_a_convolutional_network/ 04:10:39 O, it is a convolutional network. OK 04:11:22 What is a convolutional network? 04:11:45 It's an artificial neural network that has convolution layers, I think. 04:11:45 shachaf: yeah! I can't stop staring 04:11:56 Ah, OK 04:12:44 A convolution layer is a layer where instead of having an affine map where you can change every weight separately, you have a small convolution matrix thing applied everywhere. 04:13:11 shachaf: i think this pretty much sums it up http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/3a1ebc/image_generated_by_a_convolutional_network/cs8hsei 04:13:20 So it's like training a whole bunch of the network at once with the same values, I guess. 04:14:45 zzo38: Do you know about artificial neural network and other things like that? 04:17:25 Not much 04:19:32 `wisdom 04:19:33 døsthiswørk/yes 04:31:20 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:41:27 -!- j-bot has joined. 04:53:49 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:33:58 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 05:37:58 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:02:43 Oh fuck demon dogs! 06:02:57 That's some scary stuff! 06:03:26 https://twitter.com/fuckeveryword is a thing that exists 06:46:17 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:01:34 -!- J_A_Work has joined. 07:16:44 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 07:41:25 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:48:05 How do you directly build a frequency-domain of a decaying tone? 07:59:58 Hmm, wikipedia has disabled HTTP access 08:00:40 That's going to make it difficult to cache 08:01:36 Yes, I told them that too 08:06:45 Make the proxy server that uses HTTP with the client but HTTPS with the Wikipedia server 08:18:16 -!- rdococ has joined. 08:18:32 umm... guys... 08:19:06 Umm... 08:19:20 But there is another way. They said they didn't want problems with accessing insecure connections and then someone tamper with it or steal the setting of cookie or whatever. This can be solved by using a different domain name for insecure connections. 08:19:43 ...cookies 08:20:40 so I heard about this "nullity" thing someone thought up 9 years ago... don't get me wrong, it's total BS, but it makes me think... I wonder what an esoteric language with it built in would be like...? 08:21:41 ... ... nevermind ... 08:21:50 look...umm... 08:21:52 ufh 08:22:16 is anyone here?! 08:22:47 wait... are you shocked? do you think I like the idea? or do you like the idea and are offended? 08:22:50 I am on at least 08:23:04 I do not quite know the answer though. 08:23:09 nevermind... 08:25:19 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 08:25:38 import}io}; 08:25:48 print}Hello, World!}; 08:25:51 return} 08:25:51 ; 08:26:00 ... 08:26:07 Sorry 08:26:08 First time 08:26:18 we discussed nullity way back and i think we decided it was crap. although here's a more serious way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_theory 08:26:21 I always start with hello worlds when I join something new 08:26:21 oh!!! I know what you were doing... 08:26:32 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:26:45 its okay... its kinda funny actually... but for a second I didn't know what you were talking about... 08:26:57 OK 08:27:06 Wait, are you talking to me? I doubt it, but just checking 08:27:07 anyway... welcome... 08:27:14 `relcome hppavilion1 08:27:15 ​hppavilion1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) 08:27:21 yes I am. 08:27:39 Yay 08:27:44 I'm welcome somewhere :P 08:28:37 of course you are! 08:28:48 Is nullity meaning a name for zero divided by zero (even though of course you cannot divide by zero)? I think I heard "nullity" meaning it once? 08:28:56 yeah... 08:29:46 http://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/articles/2006/12/06/divide_zero_feature.shtml ... don't get me wrong, 0 / 0 would equal nullity, but that's because 0 / 0 would equal anything if you let it... 08:29:56 I suppose it can be useful to have a name for it in some cases, even though it is not actually a possible operation. 08:29:59 I just spent the last few hours writing a Befunge Interpreter in python 08:30:09 there's already an esolang including nullity it's called IEEE 754 hth 08:30:35 a / b = c means c * b = a. applying that to 0/0, we get 0 / 0 = x means x * 0 = 0... and every number satisfies that, including nullity itself 08:30:52 Yes, I can see that 08:31:36 It isn't what I meant though; what I meant is you are explicitly dividing zero by zero. For example to figure out the percentage of questions you answered correctly on a test even though there are no questions on the test. 08:31:48 yeah... 08:32:10 i'm not sure the befunge experts are awake at the moment 08:32:18 It isn't a number, but rather some kind of convenient shortcut in some cases. 08:32:24 fungot: except you, of course! 08:32:24 oerjan: fnord is a fetish, now is. anyway, obviously tusho's dialect forbids " got" it is? :) where would you like 08:32:45 You can't do any proper mathematical operations with it. 08:33:32 IEEE 754 might have been vandalised... there's nothing on the article 08:33:45 or deleted... 08:33:49 rdococ: on wikipedia? 08:33:56 no... 08:34:10 you said there was an esolang called IEEE 754 08:34:22 i was joking hth 08:34:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_floating_point 08:34:45 ik... 08:34:50 well, now I do 08:34:53 anyway... 08:35:19 Oh god 08:35:21 for most purposes, I would say 0 / 0 = 1. 08:35:51 I think that the Befunge interpreter is the longest thing I've ever written. At <500 lines. Which is sad. 08:36:02 hppavilion1: i think the standard thing to do with a new befunge interpreter around here is to get it to pass Deewiant's mycology test suite 08:36:11 that would be a new record for me 08:36:13 rdococ: I would not say any one for "most purposes" 08:36:40 where are you likely to see 0/0 in maths where it's not just an error on your part? 08:37:00 then we'll get the value we should assign to 0/0 for those purposes. 08:37:10 it could equal anything, so any value will do. 08:37:59 Whether or not anything should be assigned at all depends on the situation. 08:38:12 true... 08:38:29 Anderson provides a proof that 0^0 = 0/0. usually, 0^0 = 1 for most purposes 08:38:32 rdococ: l'Hopital's rule hth 08:38:44 Mathematically there is no proper answer that you can use 08:38:47 *ô 08:39:24 Although I do think 0^0=1 is valid. But if you have a proof that 0^0 = 0/0 that doesn't seem valid because the "0/0" part is the not-valid part. 08:39:37 true... 08:40:03 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:40:45 a long while ago I stumbled upon a question, "in a foreign country, 5 / 2 = 3. based on the same proportions, what is 10 / 3?" I immediately thought, "what foreign country would do this and why?" 08:41:15 I wonder if every country did that before the invention/discovery/whatever of zero. 08:41:19 It doesn't make sense. 08:42:52 it does to me... simply put, such a country denies the existence of zero in their mathematical teachings. in modern countries, x / 2 is the number in the middle of 0 and x. but when and where zero doesn't exist, x / 2 would be the number in the middle of 1 and x instead. 08:46:15 I was making different assumptions, in an attempt to be mathematically correct; it has nothing to do with foreign countries or whether or not zero is invented 08:53:48 well, of course 5 / 2 does not equal 3. I wasn't saying it does. 08:54:16 but in a world without 0, or in a world without fractions, division or numbers might take a different meaning 08:54:43 for example, someone might say 5 objects / 2 objects = 3 objects, even if the third object is only half as big as the other two 08:54:56 but we would say 5 / 2 = 2.5 08:54:59 Maybe, I don't know. But, the current mathematical way would still be possible too. 08:55:17 definitely 08:55:43 even if there's no concept of the number zero, it has no effect on the applications of division and sharing 08:56:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:56:36 imagine if we could create an esolang with this alternate division 08:56:48 You can try 08:57:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 08:58:45 hmm 09:48:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:49:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:05:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:17:18 -!- boily has joined. 10:47:01 -!- J_A_Work has quit (Quit: J_A_Work). 10:49:32 -!- idris-bot has joined. 11:20:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: bbs). 11:22:40 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 11:23:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:24:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:29:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PRODLLY CHICKEN). 11:34:43 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:43:56 @tell oerjan http://codepad.org/LA8kRBCM 11:43:56 Consider it noted. 12:01:26 Does anyone know enough about http://www.eclipse.org/epsilon/ to give me a tl;dr 12:01:55 does there exist a http://www.eclipse.org/delta/? 12:02:16 . o O ( I can do the ;dr part just fine... ) 12:03:08 Phantom_Hoover, evidently not 12:12:52 epsilon = 1/infinity = 1/(1/0) = 0... 12:14:05 Hmm, the ebook documenting it is written by 4 people from this uni 12:14:12 omg... I have an idea... 12:15:19 `learn epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM) 12:15:22 Learned 'epsilon': epsilon stands for Extensible Platform of Integrated Languages for Model Management (EPILMM) 12:15:42 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:16:13 you know numbers, 1, 2, 3...? when you mutiply a number x by some number y and add some number z, you get a linear function with a constant derivative...? imagine a number δ you can multiply by some other number y and add another number z, where you don't get a linear function with a constant derivative...? 12:17:09 I do not think such language exists 12:17:11 *number 12:17:23 but imagine if there was... that'd be... interesting 12:17:35 more interesting than that nullity bull 12:18:33 also... another idea... there are minus numbers and plus numbers, why can't there be multiplicative numbers or divisional numbers? -3, +4, *2, and /6 12:19:04 That sounds interesting... 12:19:11 It would make arithmetic weird 12:19:20 What's the system called where an operation is carried out if enough arguments are available 12:19:21 What is 3 times *4 for example? 12:19:24 Would it be 81? 12:19:30 3 * *4 = 3 ^ 4 12:19:41 and 3 + *4 = 3 * 4 12:19:47 meaning that 5 + 3, + 3 5 and 5 3 + are actually equivalent and are both the same expressions in that system 12:19:53 This makes multiplication non-commutative and non-associative 12:20:00 Maybe addition too 12:20:56 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 12:21:10 (they are semantically identical) 12:21:34 and, multiplicative numbers would act like δ as I said - the second derivative of δx+b isn't constant zero 12:22:29 which would be cool 12:22:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:22:37 rdococ, would there be exponential numbers? 12:22:42 yes 12:22:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:22:51 3 + ^4 = 3 ^ 4 12:24:56 2 - ^2 = square root of 2 12:27:29 What about ^3 ^ ^2? 12:29:41 is this some sort of logarithm-based arithmetic? 12:29:58 =^.^= 12:29:58 ais523, it is where numbers carry operators 12:30:05 and + is concatenation? 12:30:42 -!- TieSoul has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 12:32:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 12:33:13 I think so? 12:33:18 It is rdococ 12:33:20 's thing 12:35:24 Anyway, I need to figure out what Epsilon is by Friday afternoon 12:36:58 @message mauris you can omit the parens in a method call in Lua? you seem to do to that inconsistently, I think I'm missing what the parse rules are for it 12:36:58 Maybe you meant: messages messages-loud messages? 12:37:10 @ask mauris you can omit the parens in a method call in Lua? you seem to do to that inconsistently, I think I'm missing what the parse rules are for it 12:37:11 Consider it noted. 12:38:13 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:38:20 ais523: you can omit them if the argument is a string literal or table constructor iirc 12:38:23 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406]). 12:38:39 Does C11 have generics yet? 12:38:48 mroman: it has _Generic, so no 12:38:55 (_Generic is sort-of the opposite of generics, in a way) 12:39:07 ais523: http://www.lua.org/manual/5.3/manual.html#3.4.10 12:39:43 huh, I've never actually read the Lua spec 12:39:48 Like node_* 12:39:51 I guess there'll be some nice bedtime reading for me :-) 12:39:59 instead of having node_t with a void* data; pointer 12:40:00 hmm 12:40:12 you could have node_ with a type* data; pointer 12:40:19 ais523: asking here is also ok 12:40:42 I mean I could do stuff like uhm 12:40:52 b_jonas: that requires being oline 12:41:08 #define list_int list_t 12:41:14 to annotate that this list points to integers 12:41:20 -!- mitchs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:41:35 imagine an infinite-dimensional polynomial number plane, with units like 1, x, x^2, x^3, x^4, x^5... 12:41:38 ais523: true. whereas the docs are downloadable 12:41:59 and the implementation too 12:42:12 yep 12:42:15 or just name it foo(list_t int_list); 12:42:19 I have a standalone Lua impl already but I rarely use it 12:42:27 I use it for testing the algorithmic parts of Enigma levels sometimes 12:42:43 a Polynomial datatype, with a number for each exponentiation... 2 + 3x + 4x^2, is stored as the tuple (2, 3, 4)... 12:42:52 even though I usually have internet connection, I have a lot of things downloaded that I'm not using right now but could be useful 12:42:53 does C++ have that? 12:43:00 I think C++ has some stuff like that 12:43:02 I think as you're less often online you probably do that more 12:43:28 but I have used lua to write at least one signature-length obfu 12:43:47 template struct node { T* data; node* next; };? 12:44:25 I'll guess I'll use a C++ compiler then *only* for the template feature :D 12:44:27 `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127 end;io.write(string.char(c))end--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:44:28 ​#wV(@yAa \ "f&`O2s~n 12:44:31 nope 12:44:36 but something close to that should work 12:44:48 `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127end;io.write(string.char(c))end--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:44:49 lua: (command line):1: attempt to call a nil value \ stack traceback: \ (command line):1: in main chunk \ [C]: in ? 12:44:58 `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127end;io.write(string.char(c))\nend--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:44:58 lua: (command line):1: attempt to call a nil value \ stack traceback: \ (command line):1: in main chunk \ [C]: in ? 12:45:03 meh 12:45:26 `lua -e a="for b=2,26 do c=0;for d,e in ipairs({a:byte(1,-1)})do c=(b*c+e)%127\nend;io.write(string.char(c))end--$S`U$-}OPX41,@aYH\3\26Q2\23*|>"; loadstring(a) {ambrus} 12:45:27 Just another Lua hacker, 12:45:29 right, that 12:45:44 it's easier when it has an actual newline there 12:46:03 to fit in an email sig 12:46:39 this one sucks, I should rewrite it 12:49:33 -!- ethiraric has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:52:37 -!- mitchs has joined. 12:53:03 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 13:00:19 -!- staffehn has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 13:01:28 -!- staffehn has joined. 13:05:15 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:11:52 -!- ethiraric has joined. 13:35:14 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:01:52 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 14:27:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:55:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 14:56:08 -!- idris-bot has joined. 15:19:59 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:21:49 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:22:56 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 15:47:42 -!- SopaXT has joined. 15:48:15 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:49:31 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:56:15 -!- gniourf has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:57:33 -!- gniourf has joined. 15:57:50 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:58:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:04:09 b_jonas: is the trailing comma traditional in any language but Perl? 16:04:21 -!- password2 has joined. 16:04:25 (actually I don't know why it's there in Perl either, I'm assuming historical reasons; maybe a typo or optimization in the very first JAPH) 16:07:35 Trailing comma? 16:08:02 Taneb: the standard output of a JAPH is "Just another Perl hacker,\n" 16:08:13 Aaaaaah 16:08:15 Odd 16:08:30 b_jonas's JALH has a trailing comma despite not being in Perl 16:08:43 Just A Lisp Hacker? 16:08:44 (and the goal of a JAPH is to print that string in as bizarre a way as possible) 16:08:50 Just A Lua Hacker 16:09:05 Aaah 16:09:27 What would be a bizarre language to write a JA*H for 16:10:08 Python, although that's probably been done 16:10:09 or Java 16:10:22 basically languages which aren't meant to have weird corners 16:10:24 Two languages I do not know very well 16:10:28 Prolog would be a good one too, but for a different reason 16:10:45 Saying that I do not know many languages very well 16:10:56 pick one you do then 16:11:13 oh, not Burlesque, the more obvious ways have to be readable 16:11:28 there's not much point of doing a JAMH in Malbolge because it doesn't look visually different from any other Malbolge program 16:12:04 (Whitespace is the extreme example of that principle, I guess…) 16:13:36 -!- variable has joined. 16:31:03 I am bored I think that I will install a new OS on my laptop 16:32:12 -!- myndzi\ has quit. 16:32:38 wait, people get bored? 16:32:59 sometimes I get drained of mental energy and can't do anything interesting, but there's always tons of stuff I want to do and don't have time to 16:33:30 ais523, I forget to write those down 16:33:54 And then forget what they are 16:34:45 Actually, I will work on my natural numbers representation 16:37:15 newtype Nat = Nat [Nat] 16:38:31 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:40:12 Taneb: with the second Nat there being a constructor? 16:40:17 Yes 16:40:22 that seems more general than the naturals, offhand 16:40:37 ais523, with the restriction that the lists are finite and finitely deep 16:41:15 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:41:16 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 16:41:33 -!- Melvar` has joined. 16:43:13 -!- mitchs has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- rdococ has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 16:43:14 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 16:47:09 -!- olsner has joined. 16:48:17 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:51:16 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 16:55:39 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:10:31 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 17:10:39 Taneb, i still don't get how this representation is meant to work 17:10:49 like how do you represent succ 17:11:32 -!- SopaXT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:14:04 Phantom_Hoover, https://gist.github.com/Taneb/f2021eab65ba59aa3693 17:14:39 Basically, it's a list of the offsets between the set digits, starting from least significant 17:25:16 I imagine doing JA*H would work well in J 17:26:24 now I'm trying to remember which humour article it was that claimed that C was a recursive acronym 17:27:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:27:46 http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2008-02-01.txt 17:22:56: like the entry from the IAQ: "C is a recursive acronym. It stands for 'C'." 17:27:58 ah right 17:28:18 presumably I thought this was amusing even back in 2008 17:28:36 IAQ? 17:28:36 `thanks past ais523 17:28:37 Thanks, past ais523. Thast ais523. 17:28:46 http://www.seebs.net/faqs/c-iaq.html 17:29:00 it's basically a parody FAQ for C 17:29:27 Nice. 17:30:17 `? c 17:30:18 C is the language of��V�>WIד�.��Segmentation fault 17:33:51 Those are some delightful answers. 17:34:12 `wisdom 17:34:13 indentity function/indentity function is the function that measures how indented source code is. 17:39:33 fn main(){for x in 1..101{match(x%3,x%5){(0,0)=>println!("FizzBuzz"),(0,_)=>println!("Fizz"),(_,0)=>println!("Buzz"),_=>println!("{}",x),}}} 17:40:08 Rust is esoteric yes 17:40:23 :D 17:42:22 Now do it in valid C without headers. 17:42:33 `wisdom 17:42:34 gazpacho/You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 17:43:08 pikhq: is there some trick I'm missing to that (C fizzbuzz without headers)? printf seems like the hardest part but that can be declared manually 17:43:23 -!- bb010g has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:43:38 ais523: Nah, just that most people don't realize it's legal to declare functions without using headers if you can declare them without reference to types in headers. 17:44:07 At least, it seems like some toolchain devs don't realize it. :P 17:44:10 you do have to get the declaration right (unless you're using gcc, which will tell you if you've got it wrong and ignore it, IIRC) 17:44:37 one thing many people don't realise is that you can declare things like printf /inside/ functions 17:44:41 Yes, but note that int foo(); is a valid declaration. 17:44:56 actually, can't you do something like "extern int x, printf(const char *, ...);"? 17:45:10 Yep. 17:45:26 int printf(); is a full declaration of printf. 17:45:27 -!- gamemanj has joined. 17:46:23 pikhq: without the extern? 17:46:31 Yes. 17:46:52 hmm, now I need to try to figure out what extern actually does on functions, if anything 17:47:04 This behavior, BTW, means glibc's strerror_r is nonconforming. :) 17:48:12 (as is mingw's printf, but mingw only resembles C if you squint at it anyways) 17:48:59 mingw's printf uses 64 to print long longs :-P 17:49:06 *mingw's printf uses %I64 to print long longs :-P 17:49:21 sorry, forgot that %I in Konversation is an escape for tab, which it renders as "toggle italics" 17:53:51 -!- quietello has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:53:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 18:00:42 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:08:07 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 18:08:33 -!- idris-bot has joined. 18:10:57 -!- Herbalist has joined. 18:10:58 -!- Herbalist has quit (Changing host). 18:10:58 -!- Herbalist has joined. 18:17:09 `wisdom 18:17:10 pietbot/Pietbot is the only thing that can defeat fungot. 18:17:22 `wisdom 18:17:23 oerjan_/oerjan_ is oerjan and ørjan's chimæric clone. he shows up on irc when the network is having trouble. 18:17:42 `culprits wisdom/oerjan_ 18:17:44 oerjan elliott oerjan 18:21:03 If your program uses SQLite, you can still use SQLite's printf functions to print long long numbers in the way compatible with other computers too 18:21:29 argh 18:21:46 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:22:22 (Another way is you can use #ifdef to check) 18:23:59 zzo38: One time I was playing Magic: The Gathering, and I equipped Executioner's Hood on Chromanticore, thinking it was a good move. 18:24:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:26:36 -!- Anarchist has joined. 18:27:00 -!- Anarchist has changed nick to Guest26937. 18:27:24 shachaf: hey, it's still unblockable by the eldrazi titans! 18:27:41 (also it has flying anyway…) 18:28:49 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:29:10 There were no Eldrazi in the game. 18:29:35 still not a 100% useless move unless you /knew/ there were no Eldrazi in the game :-P 18:29:57 (also, Ugin's Herald was recently printed, which is colourless because it couldn't be an artifact for flavour reasons) 18:30:50 -!- Guest26937 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:31:00 The format was "Innistrad and onward". 18:31:29 Ugin's Herald is in Dragons of Tarkir, which is the most recent major set 18:31:41 also, I didn't realise people still played Extended 18:31:54 This was last year. 18:32:06 ah right 18:32:45 trying to work out if there are any potential colourless nonartifact creatures under those restrictions 18:32:55 What is Ugin's Herald? 18:33:25 Oh, Scion of Ugin. 18:33:52 ah right, I must be remembering the wrong name from somewhere 18:34:35 So this seems like a place where people are likely to know; I seem to be confused (or perhaps not and others are) on the distinction between "closure" and "lambda/anonymous function". I've been reading about Rust and Lua a lot lately, and they repeatedly refer to an anonymous function as a "closure," but my understanding was that a closure was rather a specific use of an anonymous function... 18:34:36 ...that captures some local state. 18:34:59 A closure isn't necessarily a function at all. 18:35:41 But anyway a closure is a way to implement things that "lexically close" over their environment. 18:35:45 J_Arcane: a closure is basically some way of capturing your current local variables in scope 18:35:49 Indeed, the terms as explained to me were overlapping but not exclusive: a non-anonymous function can be a closure, and an anonymous function doesn't have to be a closure either. 18:35:49 so that you can refer to them later 18:35:57 It can be anonymous or not, and in some cases it doesn't have to be a function at all. 18:36:06 I see. 18:36:09 they're mostly only useful for nested and anonymous function definitions; I don't think it'd /technically/ have to be for a function but it nearly always is 18:36:44 and a "lexical closure" captures lexical scope; I guess you could have a dynamic closure which captures dynamically-scoped variables 18:36:53 but that's probably no different to making a copy 18:36:56 In Haskell closures are useful for non-functions. 18:38:38 shachaf: Whether something is a good move usually depends on the situation. 18:39:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:40:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:40:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:41:33 For example unblockable by colorless eldrazi cards as mentioned above, or if you just want to unequip it from your other creature 18:42:28 most of the cases I can think of where I'd want a creature unequipped - and I wanted to equip it in the first place - it's because something has happened to the equipment to make it hurt the creature it's on 18:42:46 in which case, it seems unlikely that I'd have something more valuable than a chromanticore to save 19:01:19 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 19:01:45 (OK, so it only costs 5, but it's the most difficult 5) 19:06:27 The context was that I had an artifact deck with all colorless creatures, so Executioner's Hood was great. 19:06:50 And since all my creatures were colorless, I had land colors evenly distributed. 19:07:15 And since I had all sorts of land colors, I put in a Chromanticore. 19:07:52 Under the reasoning that it wasn't colorless but at least it was color-balanced. 19:08:42 shachaf: fwiw, those decks which are full of colourless cards normally run colourless lands because they have nice side effects 19:08:45 basics are cheaper, though 19:09:20 (in Commander, you actually /have/ to run colourless lands in a colourless deck; there are actually enough even for a 100-card deck, but it can be a pain finding them all) 19:10:39 I wish they'd print Cave. 19:11:40 pikhq: a basic land that generates {1}? 19:11:45 or something else? 19:11:46 Yes. 19:12:01 I need to get more into Magic, but I am refusing to spend money on it 19:12:03 pikhq: apparently they've been trying for literally years but it breaks too many things to add another basic land 19:12:04 They were *this* close at one point to printing "Cave. Basic Land - Cave." 19:12:11 Taneb: continue not spending money on it 19:12:17 ais523, it is working well so far 19:12:21 ais523: Yeah, it's a rules headache to introduce. 19:12:22 you can do what I do, which is to read a lot of articles and not actually play 19:12:22 I have a few friends who lend me decks 19:12:44 they've been trying ever since Domain was invented, which is a very long time ago in Magic terms 19:15:19 Taneb: I can give you a bunch of cards when you come visit. 19:15:52 shachaf, I may one day take you up on this offer 19:17:10 limited-time offer 19:17:31 Grrawr, impatience. 19:17:51 But the other reason might be if you want to force opponent to block one of your other cards then you would unequip Executioner's Hood, therefore equip to something else instead. 19:17:56 shachaf, if you can pay for my flights, sure 19:19:59 Flights from Europe? to SFO? are probably pretty pricy. 19:20:22 I'd guess in the hundreds of pounds range 19:20:31 (also you'd likely need to fly back the other way too) 19:20:46 hmm, I wonder how flights compare to ferries, price-wise, over that kind of distance 19:20:54 that's the only other viable option and it's much slower 19:21:36 You could fly to the east coast and then hitchhike here. 19:22:03 shachaf: hmm, I wouldn't actually expect costs to the east coast and to the west coast to be all that different; I'd expect popular destination / unpopular destination to be more of a factor 19:22:16 the US is very wide, and so there'll be fuel and staffing costs going from one side to the other 19:22:23 As I remember it it's somewhat cheaper. 19:22:32 But I could be wrong. 19:22:36 but the Atlantic is also wide, and overheads in flying internationally are going to be relevant 19:22:44 plus, of course, the standard cost of flying generally 19:22:55 anyway, you can get cheaper flights if you're willing to be advertised at constantly en route 19:23:07 Usually transatlantic flights to here consist of two legs. 19:23:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:23:23 ais523: yes, also depends on when you buy the tickets and stuff like that 19:23:30 SFO-London is a well-established direct flight though. 19:23:31 But maybe that's less true for .uk than for .il. 19:23:37 like, whether they guess it's a popular time or not 19:23:57 shachaf: I would be very surprised if there wasn't a direct flight from Heathrow 19:24:03 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:24:09 There probably is. 19:24:09 it's got to be one of the most connected airports in the world 19:24:27 There is 19:24:32 ais523: There is, it's one of the top 10 most heavily flown flights between Europe and North America I believe. 19:24:39 (this reminds me of Birmingham New Street, actually, the most connected train station in the UK; London doesn't have a single major train station, just lots of small ones) 19:25:17 strangely, not all traffic to central Birmingham goes through New Street; some uses Moor Street instead, which is maybe about 200m away from it but on different physical train lines 19:25:24 probably just due to not being able to fit all the lines into one station 19:25:30 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:25:34 I don't think Heathrow flies direct to that *many* US airports, but SFO is a big damned airport. 19:25:37 > 427 + 269 19:25:39 696 19:25:40 Sounds like a conversation for #trains. 19:25:45 OK, 800 there and back 19:25:52 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:26:00 Taneb: whoa whoa whoa 19:26:02 In late September, on British Airways 19:26:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:26:10 You want me to pay for a flight back, too? 19:26:26 Well, BA there, AA back, there direct, back via Dallas 19:26:34 shachaf, I did say my flights 19:26:35 Well, customs gets pissy when you don't have a visa and don't have a return flight. 19:26:45 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:51 ais523: yes, but mind you, some of that stuff was probably built when the city was smaller and is very hard to change now 19:27:08 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:27:13 like, in Budapest, trains can enter from three directions, somewhat corresponding to the three main railway station endpoints but not completely, 19:27:21 b_jonas: actually, what happened with Birmingham Moor Street was, they had a reasonably large station there 19:27:39 then decided they needed a through line, which they built a bit too far from the station, and so they made a new Moor Street station and closed the old one 19:27:49 and then it grew enough that nowadays they use both stations 19:27:54 and made them into one continuous building 19:28:35 and this results in two big cuts in Pest cutting it to three pieces, where there's only train tracks in the cuts, and other vehicles can't cross at all, because no road can cross the trains, and even pedestrians can't go through 19:29:00 so if you look at the car map of Budapest, there's basically the Danube which you can cross only on bridges, plus a smaller cut from the two mountains, plus these two big cuts 19:29:11 and it's even worse by bus 19:29:45 so for any place in Pest that's not in the city, the route there is obvious: 19:29:48 by bus that is 19:30:20 if it's near Újpest, to the north of Rákosrendező, you have to take metro 3 to the north then change to a bus; 19:30:37 if it's in the middle between Rákosrendező and Keleti, take metro 2 and change to a bus; 19:30:50 if it's on the south, take metro 3 to the south and then take a bus. 19:31:27 all three metros don't reach far enough, so a large part of the outer town is covered by buses only from the terminus of the metro or two or three other metro stations close to the terminus 19:31:37 b_jonas: is the metro a sort of local train line? and does it run underground? 19:31:49 (the word "metro" is used for a huge number of different things in English) 19:31:53 yes, the metro is mostly undreground, 19:32:04 it does come up to the surface near some of the ends 19:32:36 there's now three of them, metro 3 is the biggest and covers north and south, and is underground everywhere except the very end at south 19:33:29 metro 2 covers east and comes up to above ground near the end for the last two stations, 19:33:48 hmm 19:33:54 London has way more than 3 underground lines 19:34:19 metro 2 also goes a bit to north-Buda, which is traditionally considered the rich part of Budapest, so most people have cars, but for those who don't, the tram lines are getting somewhat improved in the future hopefully, 19:34:22 whereas Birmingham doesn't have an underground system, but has an above-ground train system that links to pretty much all areas of the city, also one tram 19:34:31 and metro 4 is new and covers south-Buda 19:35:00 Newcastle has a weird undergroundy overgroundy thing with poor coverage of the west of the city 19:35:03 (some of the lines go underground very near the centre, but they're all /mostly/ above-ground) 19:35:06 York has nothing of the sort 19:35:27 technically there's also metro line 1 which is different, it covers only the city, and isn't deep underground, but immediately below roads 19:35:54 London's underground lines get deeper and deeper the newer they are 19:36:07 the really old ones, they just cut the ground open, built the line, then built a roof over it 19:36:22 the newest ones they're boring through rock 19:36:35 there are also HÉVs, which are trains that _should_ ideally be continuation of the metros that cover the farther parts of the town and the agglomeration, 19:36:40 and sometimes it takes longer to walk down to the train line, then back up again at the destination, than it takes the train to get from station to statin 19:36:47 and ideally should be just the continuation of the metros, 19:36:58 but there's two problems with that idea, 19:37:21 one is that some of them are placed inconveniently and don't match the metros, but only trams, 19:37:46 and the other is that for all kinds of stupid policy reasons they just can't be converted to get connected with the metro even where it could work. 19:40:20 and they all go above ground, but they're not metro because, and they're also not train which anyone can tell from how you need different tickets, there's no toilets on the carriages, the rules for bicycles is different, and the tracks have designated directions, namely right hand side on most lines, but left hand side on the eastbound lines. 19:40:43 so basically, there's metros and HÉV and trams and they're unconnectible and don't ever form a sane system. 19:42:03 s/trams/trains/ 19:43:19 the trams are actually different 19:43:39 trams work like road traffic, they often have to wait for traffic lights together with cars, or even wait for cars to pass, 19:44:29 whereas road traffic always has to yield to trains and HÉV at level crossings because those can't stop. 19:44:46 but the metro and HÉV situation is just stupid and traditional 19:46:19 -!- w00tles has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:51 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:54:42 -!- quietello has joined. 19:59:33 -!- nys has joined. 19:59:44 In Stockholm we have two relatively shallow lines, one deeper line behind those two, and then they're building a commuter rail tunnel that's going to go below /that/ line 19:59:59 whoa whoa whoa 20:00:05 You're in Stockholm? 20:00:08 Yes 20:00:18 I thought you knew that 20:00:51 I thought you were in .fi. 20:00:57 I might be confusing you with someone else. 20:00:57 Nope 20:01:02 Probably, yeah 20:01:22 I was in Stockholm once. Twice. 20:01:45 What did you do here? 20:01:54 I was 3 years old the first time. 20:02:05 I think it's a pretty boring city, but I guess that's because I'm just too used to it 20:02:07 Ah. 20:02:42 The second time we went to one or more museums. 20:02:55 I must've been 15 years old. 20:03:01 Museums aren't usually my thing. 20:03:08 Perhaps you saw our excellent example of engineering; a ship that broke after a couple km 20:03:17 That was the one. 20:03:35 It's probably the most popular museum here 20:03:54 I also met some friends and/or relations. 20:05:34 I was also surprised about FireFly being in stockholm, but I think I was confusing you with Vorpal 20:06:21 I remember Vorpal being in the middle of the forest somewhere 20:06:29 Maybe in Värmland or something? I don't know 20:07:02 I think he told me some time, but I don't remember where 20:13:19 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Bbs). 20:18:36 -!- Wallacoloo has joined. 20:24:42 -!- TieSoul has joined. 20:30:22 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:35:48 -!- TieSoul has joined. 20:42:12 -!- mitchs_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:42:21 -!- mitchs_ has joined. 20:47:06 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:47:14 -!- shachaf has joined. 20:51:51 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 21:03:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:43 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 21:04:26 huh, xkcd was in an esolangy mood recently: http://xkcd.com/1537/ 21:04:50 I thought those examples might be from an actual language for a while, but clearly they aren't 21:04:56 thus, must definitely be in esolang territory 21:10:46 i think it might be a take on that javascript wat thing 21:10:50 -!- Herbalist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:11:08 or PHP 21:11:17 many languages do that sort of thing, but not so extreme 21:11:23 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:11:50 -!- Herbalist has joined. 21:13:12 ais523, we had a discussion trying to figure it out 21:13:42 I don't think there /is/ a pattern, and I think that's the point 21:14:02 `wisdom 21:14:03 recursion/You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW 21:15:07 ais523, [1], [2], [4], are just weird casting, [13] is just an unusual floor function 21:15:19 [5] I think is oddly greedy quote marks 21:15:28 [3] is normal 21:15:33 `wisdom 21:15:33 [5] is great 21:15:34 lie/Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups. 21:15:44 [10] is working out the line number + 2 21:15:51 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 21:15:55 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:16:11 [11] add 2 to the number 2, so whenever there is a 2 in the future there is a 4 instead (see [12]^W[14]) 21:16:11 I can't explain [2] with weird cast rules though 21:16:22 Taneb: oh, 11 is Forte-style? I missed that 21:16:58 ais523, I think it's casting "2" to an int, then to a list of ints, then appending the two lists, then turning the whole thing into a string 21:17:16 Taneb: exactly, there's no reason to turn the whole thing into a string at the end 21:17:24 other than that a string was involved to start with 21:17:30 I did specify weird casting rules, right? 21:17:45 or, maybe this is an everything-is-a-string language like Perl is when it doesn't leak implementation details? 21:18:12 I don't really know what [6] through [8] are doing, though 21:18:21 IMO, philosophically, in Perl, if you write (say) 10 that's really just sugar for the string "10", and the fact that it's stored internally as an int is an implementation detail 21:18:43 Well, [8] is making fun of IEEE floating point 21:18:46 Taneb: in [8], the idea is that the denominator is approximately 0 21:18:54 thus, dividing 2 by it gives you a NaN with a rounding error 21:19:08 (although that specific example doesn't work because it's using powers of 2) 21:20:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:23:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:40:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:52:00 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:02:29 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:08:18 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:10:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:22:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:25:08 -!- Wright has joined. 22:30:55 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Hppavilion1 * New user account 22:32:02 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:33:11 -!- aretecode has joined. 22:35:27 -!- polytone has quit (Quit: "I can hear myself... I think I'm a bit afraid."). 22:36:16 [wiki] [[Damarok]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=43214 * Hppavilion1 * (+243) Created Article (I'm so sorry) 22:36:46 -!- hppavilion1 has joined. 22:37:47 THE FIRST PROGRAM A PROGRAMMER WRITES 22:37:56 22:42:11 Hello? 22:45:56 hi 22:47:42 `wisdom 22:48:00 off by two/An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction 22:48:16 `culprits wisdom/off by two 22:48:22 oerjan elliott olsner 22:49:14 `wisdom 22:49:16 mroman_/mroman_ is probably mroman but you can never be sure. (NSFW) 22:49:22 -!- monotone has joined. 22:50:04 `culprits wisdom/culprit 22:50:07 badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom 22:51:39 [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=43215&oldid=42034 * Hppavilion1 * (+403) /* Category: Libraries */ new section 22:51:47 It feels a bit like magic sometimes, cooking. 22:52:20 I mean, somehow some flour, salt, baking powder, butter, milk, and sausage turned into biscuits and gravy. 22:52:54 Oh 22:52:59 That's cool 22:53:07 It notified you whesomething 22:57:46 When something happens 22:58:18 They better have programmed that in modified BrainFuck or something 22:59:00 HackEgo is weird, but in a way different from what you expect. 22:59:21 Each command is a Linux program. It spawns a Linux kernel, runs that program, and outputs the result. 22:59:38 Now, if you want an esolang bot, you need look no further than fungot. 22:59:38 pikhq: depends on the order i described it roughly earlier. have a happy fnord i am 22:59:41 fungot is in Befunge. 22:59:41 pikhq: as a fnord 22:59:45 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:00:48 I love befunge 23:00:51 -!- Herbalist has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:00:57 It's a pretty neat language. 23:01:04 I tried implementing it yesterday 23:01:12 Hello World won't work 23:01:31 hppavilion1: -93 or -98? 23:01:32 I promised anyone reading my commits I'd get it working today... 23:01:36 anyway, if you haven't seen it yet 23:01:37 98 23:01:40 get hold of a copy of Mycology 23:01:46 it'll catch a ton of common mistakes 23:01:46 I heard about it 23:01:48 `? mycology 23:01:49 mycology? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:01:56 why do we not have actually useful information in the learndb? :-( 23:02:12 I was reading the ideas list 23:02:45 `learn mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 23:02:47 Learned 'mycology': mycology is a Befunge-98 (also -93 to some extent) testsuite that can be found at https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/ 23:02:55 Befunge-98 is kinda hard to implement. 23:02:56 hppavilion1: definitely read that, it'll probably tell you what your interp is doing wrong 23:03:09 And stumled across an idea for a language called Darmok 23:03:13 Befunge-93 is not very hard, but it's also not that interesting to have an implementation for. :) 23:03:34 So I created a page for it. I apologized in the notes 23:03:44 Befunge-98 is a great language to impl, though 23:03:51 there are several Mycology-passing interps now I think 23:03:56 Darmok, if you aren't aware, is an episode of ST:TNG. Apparently 23:04:05 Though probably almost no compilers :P 23:04:37 In Darmok, they encouter a species that communicates completely through metaphors and references to local mythology 23:04:43 Or something like that 23:04:54 They take a while to figure it out 23:04:54 True. It's hard to implement, but hard to implement in interesting ways. 23:04:58 Yep 23:05:05 And a Befunge-98 implementation can actually do neat things. 23:05:55 "Terminate Sibling" for example, would be CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN (if "terminate sibling" is even a real command) 23:06:24 it's actually an operation that can be done on threads that makes sense, and might potentially be slightly useful on occasion 23:06:25 What, though, does DARMOK AND JILAD AT TENAGRA mean? 23:06:33 Yep 23:06:41 I don't know 23:06:45 e.g. if you're doing some sort of threaded exhaustive search and only need one result 23:06:53 Or, indeed, GILGAMESH AND ENKIDU AT URUK? 23:07:05 I think that Damarok the language would also only reference real mythology 23:07:08 One sec 23:07:16 I don't remember how the epic of gilgamesh goes 23:07:31 * pikhq was just referencing the episode; don't mind me 23:07:35 the problem isn't so much finding something for your commands to do, though, but finding some way to express the commands you need 23:07:41 Yes 23:07:42 Libraries 23:07:48 or, well, you can just add a ton of commands and hope they add up to something TC 23:07:53 (see: initial Snowflake) 23:07:56 The problem would be that there would ALWAYS be libraries needed 23:08:04 And everyone would implement them differently 23:08:06 actually that was awkward because I needed a pretty exact amount of computational power 23:08:41 So they'd need to implement the entirety of some libraries on their own 23:09:13 hppavilion1: that's not so dissimilar from INTERCAL, we solved the problem by encouraging people to submit them to a centralised repo 23:09:14 I think to terminate a sibling you would type "CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN, WHERE ABEL IS " 23:09:21 Yep 23:09:24 so they could use each other's libraries 23:09:24 Aaaaaah 23:09:29 That makes sense 23:09:41 (even more a problem in INTERCAL because all line numbers are global, so you need to avoid clashes between different libaries) 23:09:56 Oh :/ 23:10:24 So I think that every statement would have two clauses (well, one main clause and an arguments clause), separated by the comma 23:10:33 The COMMAND clause and the WHERE clause 23:10:48 The command clause is the reference to mythology 23:11:21 And the WHERE clause is substitutions (which are needed for formality) 23:11:44 So "CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN, WHERE ABEL IS " means to kill a process of name 23:12:13 "CAIN AND ABEL IN THE GARDEN" alone would... I don't know... Kill the next sibling sequentially? 23:12:20 And commands are separated by newlines 23:12:21 mycology.b98 tests every fingerprint that I am aware of, apart from FNGR, SGNL, and WIND. ← it doesn't test IFFI :-( 23:13:17 Of course that doesn't account for complex statements... 23:13:23 I think IFFI postdates Mycology, though 23:14:16 Name a famous decision from popular folklore/mythology 23:14:29 -!- Wallacoloo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:15:29 crossing the Rubicon? although that's more historical rather than mythological 23:15:56 Don't know what that was. Let me check 23:17:27 Julius Caesar taking his part of the Roman Army into Italy (which was totally illegal), thus sparking a civil war 23:17:34 CEASER CROSSING THE RUBICON, WHERE CONDITION IS AND CROSSING IS:\n\t 23:17:42 Or something like that 23:17:55 hppavilion1: note that you don't really want to just design an imperative language with the keywords swapped out 23:18:06 I know 23:18:07 because it isn't really interesting 23:18:12 This is just a prototype 23:18:12 I know 23:18:18 I hate langs like that 23:18:33 But I'm currently just creating some basic ideas 23:19:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:20:10 huh, there's an interesting debate about what exactly Caesar said when crossing the river 23:20:19 http://github.com/hppavilion1/Damarok 23:20:22 There 23:20:25 although it's widely agreed how it's translated into English, there's some debate about the word order of the original and whether it was in Latin or Greek 23:20:42 That's the repo where we'll put code 23:24:15 -!- hppavilion1_ has joined. 23:24:23 I'm back 23:24:37 Now I have an _ in my name :/ 23:24:50 -!- hppavilion1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:26:43 So 23:27:04 What can we do to make it less keyword-swapout-y 23:28:07 -!- Wright has joined. 23:28:15 -!- Herbalist has joined. 23:28:40 Ideally it'd be able to take a set of metaphors and interpret what they mean, but that'd require a prize-winning AI that probably would lag normal computers to hell 23:29:44 `wisdom intercal 23:29:45 ​ /The final frontier. 23:30:09 `wisdom doesn't work that way hth 23:30:10 shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj/shiasdayviaerqjjjjjjjj is the reason why the USA don't use the metric system. 23:30:17 `wisdom walrus 23:30:19 relevant info/The large-eyed mouse lemur is a nocturnal tree-dweller. 23:30:19 Should `wisdom be merged with `? ? 23:30:36 `wisdom YOUR MUM 23:30:37 fiora/Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. She's a sous-chef who shushes sushi. 23:31:04 I'm pretty sure Fiora isn't shachaf's mum 23:31:10 coppro: you probably meant `? 23:31:13 `wisdom wisdom 23:31:14 twh/twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 23:31:15 I think I broke it :P 23:31:19 No 23:31:23 No, it doesn't take any parameter 23:31:27 hppavilion1_: hint: `wisdom ignores any arguments 23:31:30 `? wisdom 23:31:31 `? intercal 23:31:35 wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø? 23:31:38 INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market. 23:31:47 Huh, it's been a while since Fiora's been here, hasn't it? 23:31:49 `? øvrigt 23:31:49 ​øvrigt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:31:56 `? c++ 23:31:57 Along with C, C++ is a language for smart people. 23:32:01 pikhq: yeah, I think she left around the time when kmc left 23:32:02 `wisdom 23:32:03 `? java 23:32:12 java? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:32:13 zork/Zork is like York, except for the first letter. 23:32:15 `help 23:32:15 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:32:19 kmc left too? Nooooo 23:32:29 What's next, no ehird? 23:32:30 `learn java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 23:32:35 Learned 'java': java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 23:32:39 `learn 23:32:40 ​/hackenv/bin/learn: line 3: wisdom/: Is a directory \ Learned '': 23:33:03 even I've been known to leave this channel for long periods of time, because it wasn't ontopic enough 23:33:06 although it's been fine recently 23:33:15 `learn yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:33:17 Learned 'yo': yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:33:26 `revert 23:33:28 OK 23:33:31 I'm done 23:33:35 rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done. 23:33:35 shachaf: I was about to `revert but I think we might have reverted each other 23:33:44 alas, it's undone 23:33:54 we /still/ have a broken canary in the system somewhere? 23:33:56 `? java 23:33:56 java is a programming-language shaped collection of misfeatures 23:34:05 Yeah, it seems it messed up the history somehow 23:34:05 `? you 23:34:08 you a haskell 23:34:10 `? yo 23:34:11 yo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:34:12 or rather, it's messed up because of the history, somehow 23:34:38 `learn haskell is the most beautiful language ever invented 23:34:42 `? haskell 23:35:02 * FireFly wonders if hppavilion1_'s client chose a nick based on the computer's name, or if it's an actual nickname 23:35:24 I chose the nick when I was 7 and didn't want to forget my username 23:35:30 No output. 23:35:33 Unbound implicit parameter (?haskell::Wisdom) \ arising from a use of implicit parameter `?haskell' 23:35:33 I see 23:35:35 It's usually hppavilion1, but my browser timed out 23:35:44 You can /nick hppavilion1 23:35:50 -!- hppavilion1_ has changed nick to hppavilion1. 23:35:54 Yay 23:35:58 I'm normal now 23:36:03 It annoys me that my brain lexes it as hpp|avilion|1 23:36:13 Heh 23:36:47 h-p-pavilion-one 23:37:22 `help 23:37:22 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:37:34 `` hg log --removed wisdom/yo 23:37:36 changeset: 5605:a4afa9eaa9ff \ tag: tip \ user: HackBot \ date: Wed Jun 17 23:35:10 2015 +0000 \ summary: learn yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:37:38 This is interesting. 23:37:42 `cat wisdom/yo 23:37:42 cat: wisdom/yo: No such file or directory 23:37:45 `` hg cat wisdom/yo 23:37:46 yo mama so fat, insert joke here 23:38:08 So 23:38:17 It seems that revert isn't actually working. 23:38:29 Or it isn't modifying the hg repository, even if it's modifying the working directory? 23:38:37 We're designing an EsoLang called Damarok 23:38:46 fizzie: what's going on twh 23:39:26 It is kewlzez 23:39:49 It uses references to mythology and metaphor 23:40:08 I have no clue how to implement it short of brute force regexes 23:40:28 That sounds like an inefficient implementation 23:40:35 It would be 23:40:49 Well, sorted dictionary regexes 23:41:02 Not literal brute force 23:43:14 And I suppose it would only sort #included libs 23:44:29 So it isn't TOO inefficient 23:44:39 FireFly: also you should set up /hilight on ireFly\b 23:45:03 It's more of a thought experiment language and something to use for mindbendingness, not for implementing stuff 23:45:20 shachaf: I probably should, just for you. What channel did I miss it in now? 23:45:31 who knows 23:45:56 How many are you in? 23:46:16 I just use 1 because it's soooo much easier 23:47:06 And I'm new to IRC 23:50:52 I'm not sure that my newer SLOBOL language can be run faster than double exponential time. 23:51:16 0.o 23:51:21 Double exponential time!? 23:51:40 * hppavilion1 DDGs double exponential time, though he's pretty sure he knows what it means 23:52:52 double exponential time is exponential time approximated with double-precision floating point arithmetic 23:52:53 Yup 23:52:56 Oh 23:53:07 `wisdom 23:53:08 macabre/The Macabres have been the hereditary rulers of Lochaber for 3 centuries. 23:53:11 I thought it was x^(y^z) 23:53:31 -!- Wright has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:53:33 shachaf is joking. 23:53:37 Oh 23:53:48 Jokes don't go through text very well 23:53:57 For me, at least 23:54:01 At least that kind 23:54:14 That SPECIFIC joke doesn't translate 23:54:32 `walrus 23:54:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: walrus: not found 23:54:41 `kill 23:54:45 ​ \ Usage: \ kill [options] [...] \ \ Options: \ [...] send signal to every listed \ -, -s, --signal \ specify the to be sent \ -l, --list=[] list all signal names, or convert one to a name \ -L, --table list all signal names in a nice table \ 23:54:51 If a SLOBOL program contains n points, then the easiest upper bound on the number of ways of executing the program is (3^n)!. 23:55:04 Ah 23:55:17 (3^b)! !? 23:55:28 (3^b)!, if b = n. 23:55:29 I must now open wolfram alpha and see that graphed 23:56:01 OW 23:56:03 *Wow 23:56:38 O(70) at ~1 23:56:40 For 0, it's 1; for 1, it's 6; for 2, it's 362880; for 3, it's 10888869450418352160768000000; for 4, it's 5797126020747367985879734231578109105412357244731625958745865049716390179693892056256184534249745940480000000000000000000; and so on. 23:57:09 Wow 23:57:16 That's slooooooooow 23:57:19 This is just for a naive implementation, though. 23:57:20 What language did you use? 23:57:28 I haven't actually implemented it. 23:57:30 Oh 23:57:40 What language do you plan to use? 23:57:47 I'm not planning to implement it, either. 23:57:47 If you plan to do it 23:57:59 I guess it wouldn't be very effective :P 23:58:06 * hppavilion1 facepalms himsel 23:58:07 f 23:58:34 higgledy piggledy / hp pavilion / doesn't like jokes that are / written in text; // uncontroversially, / one in a million is / roughly the chance they won't / leave them perplexed 23:58:47 Fair enough 23:58:55 hm, in retrospect that could be seen as slightly rude tdnh 23:59:02 It could 23:59:04 But I'm fine with it 23:59:10 Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait 23:59:18 :P 23:59:41 s/leave them/be left/