←2015-05-31 2015-06-01 2015-06-02→ ↑2015 ↑all
00:06:09 -!- Lyka|Away has changed nick to Lyka.
00:10:22 <Lyka> so, magic 8-ball program came out to 2131 commands.
00:11:23 <Lyka> each command being exactly 4 characters
00:12:05 <Lyka> and i don't understand a word of it
00:13:53 <oerjan> sounds like magic
00:15:18 <Lyka> the three-command structure A1??C210M+00 is very common
00:15:43 <Lyka> the ?? being a byte in hex
00:16:05 <Lyka> knowing that, take a guess what it does...
00:16:37 <Lyka> i mean, what it is for
00:17:58 <Lyka> yeah, it has to do with memory.
00:19:22 <Lyka> store ?? in var 1, copy var 1 to t-memory location contained in var 0, increment var 0 by one
00:19:48 <Lyka> i used a shell script i made to generate most of this
00:21:34 <Lyka> at most 24 of the 2131 commands used involve things other than storing 8-ball answers to memory
00:22:45 <Lyka> 21*32*3 is the amount of pure "if command is run, copy something into memory"
00:23:29 <Lyka> 2016 of 2131
00:23:33 <Lyka> is that
00:24:29 <Lyka> it only uses 32 bytes of t-memory
00:25:06 <Lyka> (20 answers, one info screen, 16x2 lcd)
00:27:35 <Lyka> question: as i need an assignment, give me a complex program idea to make that can use only a 16x2 character-only lcd and 5 buttons that are multiplexed so that only one can be pressed at any time
00:28:42 <oerjan> that's not a very large screen
00:29:41 <Lyka> these are arduino unos with lcd keypad shields and with programs being run directly from sd
00:30:38 <Lyka> 4 bytes of command buffering in the programming language i designed to be interpreted
00:30:54 <Jafet> A side-scroller where you move in four directions and shoot a gun
00:31:45 <Lyka> side scroller with a 2-line-high display, no custom chars?
00:32:34 <Lyka> 32 1-byte vars/active function, 256-byte global array
00:32:36 <oerjan> dammit google why are you showing only the norwegian wikipedia result
00:34:33 <oerjan> i am wondering if that screen would be just large enough for backgammon
00:34:48 <Lyka> hmm...i can modify the interpreter to allow for a 3x1 grid as an alternate mode for each character point on the screen
00:35:02 <Lyka> so 16x6
00:35:26 <Lyka> if all points are in graphis mode
00:35:45 <Lyka> i've done thins like this before
00:37:20 <Lyka> 8 max custom chars on the device, but the interpeter i wrote doesn't yet have the commands to configure them
00:38:53 <Lyka> 20x14 graphics display and 12x8 text display side by side is the best i can do
00:40:37 <Lyka> 5x7 chars with a single pixel width between each pixel
00:42:16 <oerjan> (i mean backgammon with numbers showing field contents)
00:42:24 <Lyka> might actually be able to do a rogue-like game
00:43:44 <Lyka> the system can run up to five different games on a card (five buttons) so i will try for both backgammon and rogue-ike
00:43:47 <tswett> ais523: I bet the people in #esoteric would love BF Joust.
00:44:05 <ais523> tswett: I was hoping so, but they aren't interested in it today
00:44:08 <ais523> at least some of them aren't
00:44:10 <ais523> are you?
00:44:26 <Lyka> brb
00:44:27 <tswett> Sorta. I want to write a Haskell EDSL for creating BF Joust programs.
00:44:32 <ais523> ah right
00:44:42 <ais523> I'm in a NetHack tournament right now
00:44:54 <ais523> but when I'm less busy I'll be happy to give anyone who cares strategy advice
01:00:40 <Lyka> there is going to be so little memory left for non-global variables on my arduino uno that i hope the new version of the interpreter will actually start
01:00:57 <Lyka> let alone run
01:12:13 <tswett> So Norwegian has two written forms, aye? Bokmal and Nynorsk.
01:12:37 <tswett> Are they different orthographies, with different spelling and pronunciation rules?
01:13:29 <tswett> Presumably the syntax and vocabulary are pretty much identical. I think I saw on Wikipedia that there are a few suffixes where the Bokmal and Nynorsk equivalents look completely different.
01:14:02 <tswett> And those, I assume, would just be considered different spellings and pronunciations of the same affixes.
01:16:35 <tswett> If you're writing down actual speech, do you use the forms typical of the written form you're using, or the forms that the person actually said?
01:16:43 <oren> given the 'bok' meaning book, I assume it is similar to the way the KJV of the bible has thou and thee and didst etc.
01:18:11 <oren> except that people don't write new books in 16c english
01:18:35 <oren> but they could, if they wanted to
01:19:53 <oren> or are you saying that people also speak bokmål?
01:23:29 <oren> hmm... according to wikipedia, nynorsk is the minority lect
01:24:25 <oren> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language_conflict
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01:45:28 <oerjan> tswett: no, it's not just orthography. and technically pronunciation is not defined by the standards.
01:45:32 <oren> Ooh! where=hvor why=hvorfor -> like shakespearian english 'wherefore'
01:46:34 <oerjan> there is plenty of vocabulary that would only be used in one of the forms, although some of it may gradually be becoming archaic.
01:48:06 <oerjan> <tswett> If you're writing down actual speech, do you use the forms typical of the written form you're using, or the forms that the person actually said? <-- usually but not always the former.
01:48:44 <oerjan> e.g. humor books might frequently try and write dialect.
01:49:05 <oerjan> *to
01:49:36 <oren> 'try and write' is perfectly grammatical in english
01:49:53 <oerjan> <tswett> And those, I assume, would just be considered different spellings and pronunciations of the same affixes. <-- i doubt that, if they really look completely different rather than being obvious cognates
01:52:19 <oerjan> <oren> or are you saying that people also speak bokmål? <-- you could say some people are closer to it, like western parts of oslo and some other cities.
01:54:33 <oerjan> there are some differences in grammar, some differences in usage (e.g. -s possessive suffix is deprecated in nynorsk)
01:55:32 <oerjan> oren: to vs. and is a sore point in norwegian, because they are å vs. og, identically pronounced.
02:00:56 <tswett> Ooh, I just thought of an extremely small unit of money.
02:01:31 <tswett> Namely: the cost of an amount of computing power equal to that performed by one transistor in one clock cycle.
02:01:53 <oren> um. so the g is silent?
02:02:50 <oerjan> oren: yeah, final g often is.
02:03:03 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
02:03:58 <oerjan> tswett: it's so small that it costs more than it to account for it...
02:04:16 <tswett> Yes, certainly.
02:05:00 <oerjan> sounds good. let's use it to break capitalism.
02:05:34 <tswett> Maybe this unit is about one zeptocent.
02:06:27 <oren> so it's essentially the cost of one nand operation from two bits to one
02:06:34 <tswett> When is the phrase "astronomically large" going to be replaced with "computer scientifically large"?
02:07:32 <oerjan> tswett: the latter sounds _very_ vague in comparison.
02:07:33 <oren> when we break down the earth to build a computer out of it
02:08:05 <oerjan> "astronomically large" has a much lower upper bound.
02:08:16 <tswett> True.
02:08:35 <oren> Although, I think a computer made mostly of iron like the earth would have to be a mechanical one
02:08:37 <tswett> In a certain way, a microsecond is "computer scientifically large".
02:09:08 <tswett> Are we going to keep the earth as one big ball or are we going to break it up into lots of tiny pieces?
02:09:17 <tswett> If we keep it as a ball, cooling could be a major problem.
02:09:41 <oren> Hmm maybe a large disc?
02:09:57 <oren> the ultimate hard disk
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02:12:10 <oerjan> hm engineering problem
02:12:44 <oerjan> oh hm
02:13:01 <oerjan> probably want it distributed around the sun any way, to catch all the energy.
02:15:22 <oerjan> *-
02:28:03 <Lyka> so, in order to make sure that the arduino sketch would run, i almost made the interpreter incompatible with one of my demo programs
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03:15:45 <zzo38> How to play poker with self-modifying rules?
04:00:19 <Lyka> re-added calling funtions from inside functions.
04:01:09 <Lyka> but, for stability's sake, you only have a depth of 3 (not inclding the main)
04:02:09 <Lyka> cause this arduino uno is dangerously low on ram
04:07:57 <Lyka> anyone want me to upload the Octopus 0005b language reference to my server?
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04:24:38 <zzo38> Yes
04:24:47 <zzo38> I want to see the instructions
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04:35:15 <zzo38> I added support for vector synthesis into AmigaMML (with two or four sounds, but only supports using an envelope; it doesn't support a joystick) but I do not have any instrument of vector synthesis do you have some?
04:48:32 <Lyka> no
04:48:44 <Lyka> i don't thin i do
04:50:35 <Lyka> zzo38: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/octopus%20language/octopus_0005b_lcd1602_keypad_sd%20commands.pdf
04:51:10 <Lyka> zzo38: it's on my dropbox instead of my server because it's gonna be obsolete by the afternoon
04:53:20 <zzo38> Do you have a .txt or only .pdf?
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04:55:42 <Lyka> text isn't formatted as well, but i'll get it in a second
04:56:48 <zzo38> I don't need it now since I already looked
04:57:00 <zzo38> But, later on when you post final documentation, maybe you should make .txt
04:57:19 <Lyka> this ain't anywhere close to final
04:58:12 <Lyka> i go ocd on both command listings and command fixings
04:59:42 <Lyka> does it look any good to you so far?
05:00:16 <zzo38> I think so
05:00:49 <Lyka> i have to put bitwise operations in
05:02:05 <zzo38> Yes
05:02:15 <Lyka> i'm working on graphics at the moment
05:02:56 <Lyka> i mean, the graphics capbility of a 16x2 "text-only" display
05:06:39 <Lyka> 8 custom characters gives me a little room to draw
05:09:57 <zzo38> How big are the tiles?
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05:10:08 <Lyka> 5x8
05:10:37 <Lyka> tiles are seperated by a space 1 pixel wide
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05:15:28 <Lyka> i have to wake myself up enough to gt up and turn the light off
05:17:20 <Lyka> brb
05:23:35 <Lyka> back
05:24:40 * Lyka coughs up all over the channel
05:25:09 <Lyka> 24 hour nasacort only lasts for 16
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06:14:44 <rdococ> hai
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06:25:22 * Sgeo is again nostalgic about himself
06:30:17 * Lyka is too tired to close her eyes
06:30:29 <Lyka> *his eyes
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07:07:55 <mroman_> fungot: morning
07:07:56 <fungot> mroman_: and it was
07:08:28 <mroman_> fungot: was...?
07:08:28 <fungot> mroman_: the text color is ..well... touching. it has to do with the semantics i have now has an elisp module system really needs better documentation and probably an easier way to convert 2d objects into 3d objects.
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07:20:53 <Jafet> Good afternoon, fungot
07:20:54 <fungot> Jafet: although i've always used ghost for kicking my own fnord code golf. more formal. challenges organized, hidden input/ output
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07:28:02 <zzo38> I had idea to make up the "travel computer", with a monochrome display of 80x25 tiles, with 8x8 pixels per tile, and with simple tone generator, radio receiver, alarm, CF card, wired and wireless internet, infrared, and Forth. Smaller than a laptop computer, such as perhaps 8x11 inches when closed? I don't quite know, but I have some ideas
07:28:45 <APic\splat> Kudos.
07:28:59 <zzo38> (The other program to built-in, other than Forth, is a VT100 terminal emulator, and perhaps network connection setup and a telnet and/or SSH client.)
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07:32:21 <zzo38> I thought of to have a character generator ROM with 127 tiles where 0-30 are VT100 character graphics, and that 31 and 32 are arrows. The character cell can have bit7 indicate reverse video and bit6-bit0 indicate which tile. Each row can also have perhaps 4-bits tell you the mode, such as double height, double width, underline/reverse/blink, pixels mode (therefore you can make 2x4 graphics per cell in that row)
07:32:35 <zzo38> What is your opinions/ideas too?
07:35:35 <Taneb> Good morning
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08:28:29 <b_jonas> ok
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11:33:54 <Tefaj> Spectral chicken
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11:35:10 <Jafet> Hmm, spectral is an inflection of two words
11:43:58 <Taneb> ?
11:45:43 <Jafet> @wn spectral
11:45:45 <lambdabot> *** "spectral" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
11:45:45 <lambdabot> spectral
11:45:45 <lambdabot> adj 1: of or relating to a spectrum; "spectral colors";
11:45:45 <lambdabot> "spectral analysis"
11:45:45 <lambdabot> 2: resembling or characteristic of a phantom; "a ghostly face at
11:45:47 <lambdabot> [4 @more lines]
11:47:38 <Taneb> Oooh
11:47:42 <Taneb> Spectrum and spectre?
11:50:21 <Jafet> I only realised the more common meaning afterward
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12:53:30 <Lyka> hi
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14:48:37 <tswett> http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5207303/ - well ain't this Finnish.
14:52:48 <tswett> Oh look, another one: http://hantwolf.deviantart.com/art/Lion-of-Finland-272341242
14:54:49 <TieSoul> > furaffinity
14:54:51 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘furaffinity’
14:54:53 <TieSoul> that link is staying blue
14:55:02 <TieSoul> also lol lambdabot
15:02:46 <int-e> @botsnack
15:02:46 <lambdabot> :)
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15:15:02 <tswett> Hey, it's totally SFW.
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16:24:52 <oren> good morning
16:29:49 <Taneb> @localtime oren
16:29:50 <lambdabot> Local time for oren is Mon Jun 1 12:31:13 2015
16:29:58 <Taneb> I do not think it is morning for you
16:30:04 <Taneb> It is certainly not morning for me
16:31:38 <Jafet> Given that there could be up to ~20 humans in here, there is a fair chance that it is morning for somebody
16:32:00 <oren> tswett: http://media.indiedb.com/cache/images/groups/1/1/84/thumb_620x2000/1187025029_Suffer_Not_the_Furry_to_Live_Desu.jpg
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16:49:21 <Lyka> so, um...how much can you do with a 20x16 pixel grid again?
16:51:54 <Lyka> plus a 12x2 char grid next to it
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17:17:06 <zzo38> What character are builtin?
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17:57:57 <Taneb> Help I have written the line of code "hundred = (\f -> f . f . f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f)"
17:58:09 <Elronnd|deminewt> In what language?
17:58:50 <Taneb> Haskell
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17:59:57 <shachaf> Taneb: hundred = (\f -> f . f) . (\f -> f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) . (\f -> f . f . f . f . f) hth
18:00:16 <Taneb> shachaf, not keen
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18:01:48 <olsner> Taneb: (\f g -> f . f . g . g) (\f -> f . f) (\f -> f . f . f . f . f)
18:02:00 <Taneb> olsner, oooh
18:02:19 <shachaf> whoa, it's olsner
18:04:12 <olsner> yep, it's me!
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18:14:06 <oren> Taneb: I recommend a loop instead
18:14:34 <shachaf> good point
18:15:07 <shachaf> hundred f z = iterate f z !! 100
18:19:05 <Taneb> Eh, that sounds lame
18:19:26 <oren> or construct a lambda containing a loop
18:19:30 <olsner> yes, that's definitely lame
18:38:35 <oren> shachaf: is that really a loop?
18:38:57 <shachaf> What is a loop?
18:39:35 <Elronnd|deminewt> shachaf: Repeat a series of steps until a bound has been reached
18:39:39 <Elronnd|deminewt> Or a condition is true
18:40:02 <shachaf> you're not the boss of me
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18:48:49 <oren> hundred = (\f -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x
18:49:13 <oren> hundred = (\f -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x) (n - 1))))
18:49:42 <oren> I have no idea whether you can do anythign similar to the above
18:50:07 <oren> hundred = (\f x -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x) (n - 1))) x f 100)
18:52:33 <oren> hundred = (\f x -> (let q = (\x f n -> if n == 0 then x else (q (f x) (n - 1)))) x f 100)
18:56:24 <oren> does anyone understand my haskell-racket pidgin thingy or should I figure out how to do this correctly
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19:04:50 <oren> ghci is such a scow, why is its syntax different from a .has file
19:07:29 <oren> hundred :: (Int -> Int) -> (Int -> Int) --works fine in a file, not on the prompt.
19:07:52 <shachaf> let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred = ...
19:08:37 <shachaf> ghci's syntax is somewhat similar to a do block
19:08:40 <shachaf> except not exactly
19:17:33 <oren> hey, that wasn't too difficult!
19:17:37 <oren> let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) )
19:18:27 <oren> yay for learning programming languages sort of by osmosis!
19:19:22 <oren> > let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) ); hundred (\x -> x + 1) 6
19:19:25 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:158:
19:19:25 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets)
19:19:45 <oren> > let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) )
19:19:47 <lambdabot> <no location info>:
19:19:47 <lambdabot> not an expression: ‘let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -...
19:19:56 <shachaf> but what's the point
19:20:20 <oren> It's a loop with tail recursion
19:20:21 <shachaf> you're using general recursion and you're not reusing library functions and it's longer
19:20:53 <shachaf> and tail recursion is scow anyway
19:22:17 <oren> > let hundred :: (a -> a) -> a -> a; hundred f = (\x -> (let q = (\f x n -> if n == 0 then x else (q f (f x) (n - 1))) in q f x 100) ) in hundred (\x -> x + 1) 6
19:22:19 <lambdabot> 106
19:22:41 <J_Arcane> heh. evereyone's probably seem this already, but monads in Factor: http://gitweb.factorcode.org/gitweb.cgi?p=factor;a=blob;f=extra/monads/monads.factor;hb=HEAD
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19:29:38 <J_Arcane> Factor looks slightly insane.
19:30:57 <shachaf> monads moproblems
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19:32:50 <J_Arcane> It looks like someone sat down and said "Well, Forth is nice, but what if we grafted some Lisp in there too."
19:34:41 <zzo38> The way of explain use of monad is like with list comprehension. Lists you can easily explain fmap/return/join, and then you can see also bind is working, and then how it is working IO monads too. For example in Python you can have [(x, y) for x in [1,2,3] for y in [3,1,4] if x != y] and in Haskell do-notation you can write (do { x <- [1,2,3]; y <- [3,1,4]; guard (x /= y); return (x, y); }) and you come up the same answer. That is how you should exp
19:39:54 <J_Arcane> zzo38: This is similar to one of my few light-bulb moments in monads so far: I write a pure-functional for-loop in Lisp, the end result of which is at least similar.
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19:41:33 <b_jonas> > do { x <- [1,2,3]; y <- [3,1,4]; guard (x /= y); return (x, y); }
19:41:35 <lambdabot> [(1,3),(1,4),(2,3),(2,1),(2,4),(3,1),(3,4)]
19:44:33 <oren> To help properly track optimized code without the output disabling the optimization: int traceprint(struct {char s[20]} X) __attribute__ ((const)) {puts(X.s);}
19:45:18 <oren> Basically it's a print function that pretends it's pure
19:45:30 <b_jonas> um
19:45:59 <oren> To help properly track optimized code without the output disabling the optimization: int traceprint(struct {char s[20]} X) __attribute__ ((const)) {puts(X.s); return 0;}
19:46:06 <oren> Whoops
19:48:23 <oren> This helps when optimized code assumes that it can call a function less times than as written, but you're still trying to trace a bug. Adding a puts("crap"); would cause GCC to disable the optimization because now the number of times the function is called matters.
19:49:32 <Jafet> @wn debugger
19:49:33 <lambdabot> *** "debugger" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
19:49:33 <lambdabot> debugger
19:49:33 <lambdabot> n 1: a program that helps in locating and correcting programming
19:49:33 <lambdabot> errors
19:50:49 <J_Arcane> oren: That sort of thing seems to be a semi-common idiom in Clojure when dealing with certain things like database inserts.
19:51:38 <J_Arcane> Create a local value, insert it in the db, then return the same, and then you can even thus use it in place somewhere else where you'd otherwise just use the value.
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22:15:11 <tswett> Have I ever mentioned my "JIT operating system" idea?
22:15:29 <tswett> I feel like it could potentially be a really good idea, so I don't know why it hasn't been tried yet.
22:15:58 <tswett> It's an operating system where all executable code, with some exceptions, is stored in the form of some intermediate bytecode instead of machine code.
22:16:57 <tswett> Whenever you run a program, the OS runs the bytecode using JIT compilation.
22:18:23 <tswett> The benefit I see is that CPU-based security and separation measures are no longer necessary.
22:18:48 <fizzie> Sounds like the way Android was, before the latest runtime.
22:18:51 <olsner> pretty sure that's been done, at least in almost the same way
22:19:05 <tswett> Programs can all run in the same address space, because the bytecode makes it impossible for one program to try to access another program's data.
22:19:15 <fizzie> elliott has also described that.
22:19:42 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
22:20:28 <oerjan> pretty sure i thought of almost that back in the early '90s hth
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22:20:59 <nys> isn't that what inferno is?
22:21:11 <fizzie> (Although in Android's case that's not really the security model, and there's quite a lot of native code around, and anyway the current runtime is ahead-of-time compilation.)
22:21:20 <olsner> even if all userspace code is run in a VM, you may want to isolate your VM instances because you will put bugs in it
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22:23:07 <olsner> oh, and iSeries (AS/400) does something like that since the 80s
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22:23:14 <tswett> I've read about Inferno before.
22:23:15 <fizzie> Also I think elliott's design also had no distinction between "user mode" and "kernel mode", because it's also equally useless, if you assume no bugs.
22:25:01 <oerjan> <Tefaj> Spectral chicken <-- UNITARY CHICKEN
22:25:30 <tswett> Oh sweet, a training round happened.
22:25:53 <fizzie> The way linear algebrists keep talking about spectral things always confuses me.
22:26:13 <oerjan> the problem with all this is that doing it properly really requires proof verification all the way down to circuit level
22:26:13 <tswett> At this rate, I should have a neural net in 300,000 seconds.
22:26:45 <olsner> that's less than 100 hours!
22:26:52 <oerjan> if you want the OS to be safe even with drivers, you need specifications of physical devices
22:26:54 <Jafet> Hermitian chicken
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22:27:16 <oerjan> (at least that's part of what i thought, back in the '90s)
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22:27:21 <tswett> oerjan: yeah, that's something I don't want to attempt.
22:27:27 <shachaf> fizzie: What sort of spectral things?
22:28:12 <fizzie> shachaf: The spectral theorem, mainly.
22:28:24 <Jafet> Actually gate level verification is more mature than software, if anything
22:28:47 <fizzie> (I'm conditioned to think of, like, frequencies, man, when someone mentions a spectrum.)
22:29:01 <Jafet> (probably because Intel knows, from experience, that it's very expensive to hotfix gates.)
22:29:03 <fizzie> (And not about eigenvalues.)
22:29:59 <fizzie> Also: spectral clustering.
22:30:19 <oerjan> <tswett> At this rate, I should have a neural net in 300,000 seconds. <-- i sense determination here
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22:31:35 <fizzie> Sometimes there's an audio-related paper that also involves spectral clustering (because it's used in image processing, and there is nothing they can possess which speech people cannot take away, to quote that movie).
22:31:52 <shachaf> fizzie: you could have invented spectral sequences hth
22:32:15 <oerjan> fizzie: RUN, RUN AWAY
22:32:30 <fizzie> And then it's like "wait, is that just garden variety clustering with spectral features or spectral clustering of something else".
22:33:54 <fizzie> http://www.jmlr.org/papers/volume7/bach06b/bach06b.pdf <- that seems to be segmenting a spectro[1]gram with spectral[2] clustering.
22:34:09 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: I couldn't bother to actually read it.)
22:37:38 <shachaf> going by the contents of http://www.ams.org/notices/200601/fea-chow.pdf i probably couldn't have invented spectral sequences
22:38:33 * oerjan cannot quite remember whether he ever understood what spectral sequences are.
22:38:41 <fizzie> Maybe it's like the "only you can prevent forest fires", which most people also cannot do.
22:38:46 <oerjan> but i'm pretty sure i couldn't have invented them.
22:39:22 <oerjan> fizzie: i'm pretty sure shachaf is alluding to the "you could have invented monads" blog post
22:39:36 <oerjan> (which is rather more reasonable.)
22:40:04 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm alluding to http://www.ams.org/notices/200601/fea-chow.pdf hth
22:40:05 <fizzie> oerjan: The title of the thing he linked is "You Could Have Invented Spectral Sequences", though.
22:40:09 <shachaf> well, maybe it's not alluding
22:40:32 <fizzie> If it's printed in an AMS journal, it must be true.
22:40:38 <oerjan> ok maybe they are alluding, then.
22:40:55 <shachaf> no, dan piponi was alluding to the article i linked
22:41:22 <fizzie> Not related, but something that got a chuckle out of me: tdwtf's "Error'd" had this: [[ For those accounts with no security question, one has automatically been assigned. If prompted, the security question is: "What was the color of your first car?" The answer is: car. ]]
22:41:26 <fizzie> It's nice because it's arguably kind of a tautology: all cars are car-coloured.
22:41:41 <shachaf> http://blog.ezyang.com/2012/02/anatomy-of-you-could-have-invented/#comment-3465
22:42:22 <oerjan> shachaf: shocking
22:42:36 <shachaf> ok maybe i missed something
22:46:25 <shachaf> you could have invented spectral hugs
22:47:12 <nys> you could have invented profunctors
22:47:20 -!- boily has joined.
22:47:21 <shachaf> i did hth
22:47:26 <nys> ;_;
22:50:56 <oerjan> h|!oq !y
22:57:11 <boily> b_<!\0~s9=\R\j{n.
22:57:41 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
22:57:57 <boily> hah! outxsampaed!
22:58:01 <boily> >:D
22:58:10 <oerjan> wait xsampa?
22:58:22 <boily> xsampa.
22:58:34 * oerjan never learned that.
22:58:44 * boily used the trusty table on wikipédia.
22:58:45 <oerjan> boily: i wasn't using xsampa hth
22:58:58 <boily> oh. what was it then twh?
23:01:11 * oerjan suggests turning your monitor upside down hth hth
23:02:47 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
23:03:01 <oerjan> oops
23:03:12 <oerjan> stupid script
23:03:16 <boily> that is one impressive helloily.
23:03:40 <zzo38> I look at this http://blog.ezyang.com/2014/07/type-classes-confluence-coherence-global-uniqueness/ it is similar to thing I have complained about too. My opinion is that the definition of test in D.hs should be a type mismatch error. This would require changing the definition of Set though, as well as fixing Haskell to allow the new definition to work properly.
23:04:09 <boily> hungy. time to hunt for poutine.
23:04:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HADOPELAGIC CHICKEN).
23:04:42 <shachaf> @ask boily what do you think of smoke's poutinerie twh
23:04:42 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:05:02 <zzo38> The definition need to indicate that the type (Set x) depends on (Ord x) therefore it work.
23:05:39 <zzo38> And you should be able to specify which instances you would want to import too.
23:05:58 <shachaf> oerjan: you should turn the script off. hope that helps.
23:07:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, hang on
23:07:15 <zzo38> Therefore, in such example as given then specifying the type (Set U) in D.hs at all should be error because it is ambiguous which type you mean.
23:07:50 <Phantom_Hoover> To define the n-sphere in hott you have to define all of its higher homotopies, right?
23:08:14 <Phantom_Hoover> But higher homotopy of the n-sphere is a notoriously hard open problem, so how the hell could you even do that?
23:09:31 <zzo38> Another problem is that some packages define instances which are wrong and then you cannot define the correct one!
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23:11:24 <oerjan> @tell boily NOOO don't leave i cannot interpret your xsampa even with wikipedia :(
23:11:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:15:12 <oerjan> that 0~ just doesn't fit any of the tables
23:17:52 <oerjan> @tell boily My two theories are: (1) you're trying to write bonsoerjan but have no idea what the phonetic symbols mean (2) you're actually using some african click language with a slight misprint on the 0
23:17:53 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:27:15 -!- variable has changed nick to constant.
23:29:10 <Taneb> It is EXCESSIVELY rainy here
23:30:14 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
23:30:14 <lambdabot> ENVA 012250Z 25008KT 9999 FEW040 BKN060 08/03 Q1000 RMK WIND 670FT 25010KT
23:30:27 <oerjan> now if i knew which part was rain
23:30:32 <tswett> So the first training batch took 300 seconds, but the next one took 855, and the next one 1196, and the next one 1405.
23:30:53 <oren> @metar CYYZ
23:30:53 <lambdabot> CYYZ 012300Z 14007KT 15SM SCT055 BKN065 OVC220 13/08 A3020 RMK SC3SC4CI1 SLP229
23:31:13 <oerjan> > zipWith(-)`ap`tail$[300,855,1196,1405]
23:31:15 <lambdabot> [-555,-341,-209]
23:31:20 <oren> I only see the OVC220 \
23:31:43 <oerjan> > zipWith(-)`ap`tail$zipWith(-)`ap`tail$[300,855,1196,1405]
23:31:44 <FireFly> @metar ESSB
23:31:44 <lambdabot> ESSB 012320Z AUTO 22005KT 9999 NCD 07/03 Q1012
23:31:45 <lambdabot> [-214,-132]
23:32:02 <FireFly> Good ol' zip`ap`tail
23:32:13 <FireFly> @quote zip`
23:32:14 <lambdabot> quicksilver says: zip`ap`tail - the Aztec god of consecutive numbers
23:32:30 <tswett> @pl \x -> x . x
23:32:30 <lambdabot> join (.)
23:32:37 <oren> zip ap ta eel
23:33:54 <tswett> oerjan: wait, do you have a script that randomly appends " hth" to your messages?
23:34:01 <oren> I made a version of unrnfc that only reads the file through once
23:34:04 <oerjan> @pl join id (join id)
23:34:04 <lambdabot> join id (join id)
23:34:13 <oerjan> tswett: no it removes it hth
23:34:16 <FireFly> @unpl join id (join id)
23:34:16 <lambdabot> (\ f -> (\ a -> a) f f) (\ h -> (\ b -> b) h h)
23:34:37 <FireFly> tdh
23:34:59 <oerjan> i guess they fixed that bug
23:35:09 <tswett> What bug was that?
23:36:08 <tswett> Phantom_Hoover: defining the n-sphere in HoTT is quite easy.
23:36:41 <Phantom_Hoover> so is it just hard to calculate what \Omega_n actually is?
23:36:52 <tswett> I don't remember what \Omega is.
23:37:02 <tswett> Like, what a capital omega represents.
23:37:22 <tswett> I think this is a big sphere (written like Haskell):
23:37:22 <constant> tswett: in what? algo anylyss or something else?
23:37:27 <oerjan> tswett: @pl join id (join id) used to loop
23:38:00 <tswett> data BigSphere where Base :: BigSphere; Surf :: Refl (Refl (Refl (Refl Base))) = Refl (Refl (Refl (Refl Base)))
23:38:03 <shachaf> oerjan *is* a script that randomly appends " hth" to his messages
23:38:11 <oerjan> @pl ap id id (ap id id)
23:38:14 <lambdabot> ap id id (ap id id)
23:38:15 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
23:38:19 <oerjan> oh that's the one
23:38:24 <oerjan> @pl-resume
23:38:30 <lambdabot> ap id id (ap id id)
23:38:30 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
23:38:32 <Phantom_Hoover> tswett, capital omega is the group of loops with a given basepoint
23:38:37 <oren> http://hastebin.com/zoyejekeyu.cpp
23:38:38 <Phantom_Hoover> (i think_
23:38:52 <tswett> Yeah, I think it is just hard to calculate what that is.
23:38:54 <Phantom_Hoover> so it's \pi_n except more general or something
23:39:11 <shachaf> oerjan: maybe if you resume it one more time you'll get something
23:39:20 <oerjan> @pl-resume
23:39:33 <lambdabot> ap id id (ap id id)
23:39:33 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
23:39:39 <oerjan> shachaf: nope hth
23:39:48 <shachaf> tdnh
23:40:09 <tswett> tht
23:40:34 <oerjan> tope his telps
23:41:07 <oren> it implements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_pair_encoding
23:48:27 <shachaf> `? category-helpdesk
23:48:27 <HackEgo> category-helpdesk is a helpdesk with identity and composition. This channel isn't it.
23:48:30 <shachaf> what's this all about
23:48:53 <shachaf> `` N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; E="${F#wisdom/}"; echo "$E"; \? "$E"
23:48:54 <HackEgo> right \ Right is not two wrongs but three lefts.
23:49:01 <oerjan> i dunno, ask in the category helpdesk
23:49:15 <shachaf> `` N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; E="${F#wisdom/}"; echo "$E"; \? "$E"
23:49:16 <HackEgo> burlesque \ Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque)
23:52:23 <shachaf> `` N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F"
23:52:24 <HackEgo> olsner/olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines.
23:52:43 <shachaf> `` echo 'N=$(find wisdom -type f | wc -l); F="$(find wisdom -type f | head -n $((RANDOM % N)) | tail -n1)"; echo -n "${F#wisdom/}/"; cat "$F"' > bin/wisdom; chmod +x bin/wisdom
23:52:47 <HackEgo> No output.
23:53:24 <shachaf> `wisdom
23:53:24 <shachaf> `wisdom
23:53:24 <shachaf> `wisdom
23:53:25 <shachaf> `wisdom
23:53:26 <shachaf> `wisdom
23:53:27 <HackEgo> copumpkin/copumpkin is categorically incapable of being president.
23:53:28 <HackEgo> itidus20/itidus20's entry has been censored.
23:53:28 <HackEgo> cat/Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
23:53:28 <HackEgo> ​Ø/Ø escaped due to a sensitive case bug
23:53:28 <HackEgo> résumé/résumé is a French summary. Not a curriculum vitæ.
23:53:31 <shachaf> oops
23:53:33 <shachaf> too many nicks
23:53:43 <shachaf> copumpkin: sorry about that hth
23:55:40 <Phantom_Hoover> too many nicks on the dance floor
23:55:54 <Phantom_Hoover> also what happened to itidus20's entry
23:56:03 <shachaf> it's been censored
23:56:22 <shachaf> by the way, slashlearn isn't compatible with entries that are in subdirectories
23:56:24 <Phantom_Hoover> `run ls wisdom/iti*
23:56:26 <HackEgo> wisdom/itidus19 \ wisdom/itidus20 \ wisdom/itidus21
23:56:34 <Phantom_Hoover> `? itidus19
23:56:35 <HackEgo> itidus19 disappeared into a space-time anomaly
23:56:37 <Phantom_Hoover> `? itidus21
23:56:40 <HackEgo> itidus21 just made some instant coffee.
23:56:43 <shachaf> so this will generate invalid output for them
23:57:14 <shachaf> `? phantom_hoover
23:57:15 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
23:57:33 <Phantom_Hoover> it's true
23:57:34 <shachaf> oh, that's why you were asking about homotopies
23:59:16 <shachaf> `wisdom
23:59:17 <HackEgo> thyme/Thyme itself is only an abstract approximation of oregano.
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