< 1428797402 909022 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\me was going to repeat his assertion that any decent language should be parsable in o(n) time with o(n) space. < 1428797458 627691 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects that orin has \ and / on the same key... < 1428797461 276148 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but obviously many widely used languages aren't < 1428797479 280385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: well that certainly includes LR(1) languages < 1428797480 852125 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: today I slept! < 1428797522 181771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or LR(k) for that matter < 1428797692 349418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what about INTERCAL before the fix that made it possible to parse < 1428797698 476705 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC that's type 2 but not LR(k) for any k < 1428797705 975098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's ambiguous, which doesn't help < 1428797718 655018 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :charming < 1428797768 149205 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1428797770 196633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes some effort to construct an expression with two parses but you can do it < 1428797783 616565 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does it involve rabbit ears and/or sparks? < 1428797787 281956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and arrays < 1428797858 60289 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fairly certain that Perl cannot be parsed. < 1428797877 985750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: actually Perl is parsed by YACC < 1428797894 255769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing that's awkward is that Perl has a construct that runs as soon as it's parsed, and it can change the way that the rest of the file parses < 1428797899 360739 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can put arbitrary TC stuff in there < 1428797915 95947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes parsing Perl undecidable, but in a rather mundane way < 1428797931 869645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-!- magician has joined #esoteric. -!- Guest3780 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). -!- magician is now known as Guest3780. <-- I THINK E'S DOING IT WRONG HTH < 1428797935 758175 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh... so that's why only perl can parse perl < 1428797967 716723 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the whole language in the parser < 1428797975 232992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1428797987 224211 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1428798088 988121 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just had an ambiguous grammar with a lot of cases that are settled in an arbitrary way < 1428798113 402718 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that C++ < 1428798214 618988 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++'s grammar is not ambiguous. It's not context-free. It's not even context-sensitive < 1428798229 613539 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Perl, parsing C++ is generally undecideable < 1428798356 141559 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are templates turing-complete? < 1428798369 586007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i think ambiguous is not inconsistent with undecidable hth < 1428798405 987526 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait they don't even need to be < 1428798439 876595 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i think those are pretty orthogonal < 1428798477 586989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: er, really? < 1428798480 3003 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to be able to make one that takes O(n^2) or worse time to decide whether some token A is a type or a value, < 1428798486 194994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't template computation limited < 1428798494 793991 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine what else you could exploit for that < 1428798497 531757 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: constexpr < 1428798506 72358 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't constexpr sub-TC < 1428798508 62970 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1428798513 604146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1428798517 336204 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's usually a recursion limit on templates, but except for that I think they are TC < 1428798517 711771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you use it to mess with parsing? < 1428798531 536132 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what olsner said < 1428798540 151708 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the limit is often "compiler's available memory" though < 1428798559 997440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it's limited so. < 1428798561 95961 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I understand it the "typename X" stuff is supposed to allow parsing to continue without template expansion < 1428798573 720360 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: right, but that only works inside a template < 1428798585 969461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: can you show me an example of some C++ whose parsing does not terminate < 1428798632 691449 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i guess that's me question. is it possible to make a C++ string which cannot be parsed in O(n) time < 1428798661 311804 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :template struct foo { typedef int bar; }; template <> struct foo { static int bar; }; void fail() { int i; { foo::bar * i; } } < 1428798711 688988 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1428798809 718682 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clang testsuite includes a UTM written with constexpr < 1428799165 445440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more the implemention of does_TM_halt I was curious about, but < 1428799172 526473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess constexpr is just underrestricted? < 1428799185 207646 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure the standard doesn't specify some arbitrary implementation limit :p < 1428799189 330132 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think constexpr is just "do arbitrary stuff at compile time" < 1428799191 325963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...are you sure C++ is actually TC) < 1428799313 738613 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is not directly TC at run time < 1428799342 244251 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it wasn't intended to be TC; people who are bad at computer science theory were involved in the design and thought that they'd managed to make a version of constexpr which was powerful but not problematic. < 1428799348 486834 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was actually TC < 1428799353 179108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1428799369 188109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :powerful but sub-TC is a difficult line to walk < 1428799375 668350 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C/C++ are not TC only due to the limitation in memory < 1428799378 38328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe aiming for primitive recursive is the best bet < 1428799404 230706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C is potentially TC because of the file API, nothing in C limits files to any particular arbitrary size < 1428799417 429068 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right. But I mean without files. < 1428799439 101491 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can sort of consider it in a meta approach < 1428799454 301845 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :where every time you get a memory error, you double the pointer size and retry < 1428799468 929442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :VLAs and recursion let you allocate arbitrary amounts of memory up to the size of the largest integer or size_t, whichever is smaller < 1428799488 486751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you don't even really need recursion < 1428799874 596461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is constexpr really more TC than runtime C++ < 1428799883 948799 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so dumb < 1428799913 673854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, many languages are designed to require more power to compile than they do to run < 1428799931 481350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not normally in the "undecidable vs. TC" sense < 1428800245 263815 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, C++ is straight TC because of templates too. < 1428800258 629009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are limited though < 1428800270 545157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so any portable C++ program can't use them to demonstrate TCness < 1428800296 163526 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, a C++ compiler can just bail on it. Alas. < 1428800326 293085 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then a C compiler only has to handle a fairly small number of blocks. < 1428800637 135496 :Guest3780!~magician@46.186.178.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm back < 1428800641 482667 :Guest3780!~magician@46.186.178.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dang nabt it < 1428800648 206763 :Guest3780!~magician@46.186.178.125 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One entity is getting annoying < 1428801846 554902 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really, thy don't have to heandle arbitrary nesting depth? < 1428801969 235172 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1428803301 454166 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: Nope. < 1428803558 476238 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1428803815 753213 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CARDINAL CHICKEN < 1428804337 766763 :longbyte1!~longbyte1@cpe-66-25-188-221.satx.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1428804338 136653 :longbyte1!~longbyte1@cpe-66-25-188-221.satx.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1428804837 949178 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1428805857 946335 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428806053 347876 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1428810802 8312 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that my grandfather once told me he would call the President on the telephone and tell him to remove the word "I don't want" from the dictionary. (And yet we both live in Canada, eh?) < 1428810973 315982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1428810980 81980 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428811117 429481 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the president has any authority with the dictionary < 1428811188 233781 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that “( i+=2 < 3 )” means “( i+=(2 < 3) )” ? < 1428811229 464611 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1428811255 152098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1428811255 273308 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assignment has very low precedence < 1428811275 644697 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Yes, I know, that isn't his job < 1428811312 403134 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't... i just wrote a loop that never ended because of that >.> < 1428811430 512204 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1428811457 364923 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. yes, you can't replace i++ with i+=1 in the general case < 1428811461 617972 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 030x0dea 5* 10New user account < 1428811477 288527 :barrucadu!~barrucadu@fsf/member/barrucadu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1428811593 116489 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's Greek Orthodox Easter < 1428811620 230122 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I didn't know when Greek Orthodox Easter was this year; now I can know! < 1428811751 444316 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell because outside the window, they are having a ceremony with candles and singing < 1428811805 779455 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a lot of bell ringing < 1428811841 391051 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like they've gone inside now though < 1428812422 1429 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Beatnik14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42364&oldid=42363 5* 030x0dea 5* (+419) 10Add alphabet program < 1428812441 407296 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-20-42-132.war.clearwire-wmx.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1428813004 354885 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I think the problem here is that you wanted to write an expression like (i+=2) < 3 in the first place < 1428813103 100034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like it's undefined behavior < 1428813124 620702 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming in a while statement < 1428813147 313702 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like while(i++ < n) < 1428813165 263061 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he changed it to while(i+=2 < n) to go two at a time < 1428813183 504975 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was surprised when it didn't work < 1428813254 368906 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pronouns people guess for some nicks will never cease to surprise me < 1428813398 482904 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliotte < 1428813403 631855 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a girl < 1428813404 606543 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting. i bet it changes when people are asked what pronoun they'd use as opposed to writing with out thinking < 1428813571 419609 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1428813583 391108 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should ask dianne what his opinion is < 1428813587 518747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1428813692 715388 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? ^^; < 1428813694 296714 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. dianne, do you think it's bad to write an expression like i += 2 < 3 in C? < 1428813746 514860 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can be confusing because it means i += (2 < 3) instead of (i += 2) < 3 < 1428813748 650120 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's mistering the point here < 1428813797 789044 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I personally wouldn't put an assignment there at all, but I'd rather not argue code aesthetics < 1428813807 365179 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cc main(i){while(i+=2<3);} < 1428813824 596824 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1428813839 620791 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/cc < 1428813840 406061 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$@" > /tmp/a.c && gcc /tmp/a.c -o /tmp/a.out && /tmp/a.out < 1428813845 315755 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably looped around < 1428813895 757925 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'main(i){while(i+=2<3);}' >/tmp/a.c && gcc -c -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra /tmp/a.c < 1428813898 174184 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: return type defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: type of ‘i’ defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] < 1428813926 960030 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 'main(i){while(i&&i||i);}' >/tmp/a.c && gcc -c -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra /tmp/a.c < 1428813933 491915 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: return type defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: type of ‘i’ defaults to ‘int’ [enabled by default] \ /tmp/a.c:1:1: warning: suggest parentheses around ‘&&’ within ‘||’ [-Wparentheses] < 1428813961 166122 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... also. I'm not a "he". < 1428813999 609414 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dianne: oerjan was making a joke because we were discussing how people guess pronouns < 1428814026 149928 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I guessed "he" for "izabera" and I was wrong < 1428814038 307148 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh it's np < 1428814060 267554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles a merry tune < 1428814088 899001 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, alright. I'm not really bothered, was just a bit confused. since, well, I didn't really see how, with my name... < 1428814096 251924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went a day without third-person pronouns once, just for fun < 1428814108 594033 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite doable, I don't think anyone even noticed how weird the sentence structure gets sometimes < 1428814126 788601 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In Japanese they don't really have them < 1428814151 472838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you use a script to make sure not to slip up? < 1428814154 980463 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use third-person pronouns exclusively. You might think it is quite odd, but I find it fun < 1428814175 550019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it was a spur-of-the-moment-thing < 1428814214 988787 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's あの人 and あの奴 etc. but those are just phrases like "that person" or "that dude" < 1428814259 550077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Hungarian doesn't have gendered third-person pronouns? which is why b_jonas' pronoun usage is so weird on occasion? < 1428814290 9597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't noticed anything wrong with b_jonas's usage... < 1428814323 523450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, there's only ő < 1428814332 320463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish too < 1428814345 181884 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hän iirc) < 1428814371 462914 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish merges them all into "it", right? < 1428814412 685871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: apparently, no, wiktionary claims it's only for humans < 1428814421 804450 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1428814424 672392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol lied to me, I guess < 1428814484 321153 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right there is 彼 and 彼女 but you don't hear people say it often, because they also mean "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" respectivley < 1428814529 154435 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is really weird, that a pronoun can shift in meaning like that < 1428814735 163316 :barrucadu!~barrucadu@fsf/member/barrucadu JOIN :#esoteric < 1428814748 915385 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.fsf.org/product/usb/ did you know they sell these? < 1428814784 4034 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, I did not < 1428814785 78982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the english and swedish wiktionaries disagree on whether hungarian ő includes "it" < 1428814786 398307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1428814796 414012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they" as in USB RNGs in general, or the FSF specifically? < 1428814808 497402 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in this case fsf < 1428814821 597908 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know anyone sold these < 1428814824 912028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I knew that USB RNG things were a thing, but not that the FSF sold them. < 1428814990 957561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(norwegian/swedish/danish have four third person pronouns, because in addition to "natural" gendered pronouns, the _inanimate_ pronouns have _grammatical_ gender.) < 1428814999 10008 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.fsf.org/product/stuffed-baby-gnu/ < 1428815015 602354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, singular) < 1428815031 46788 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :stallman went to italy last september < 1428815037 792099 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :he auctioned a stuffed baby gnu < 1428815041 590566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you recovered yet? < 1428815043 599236 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sold it for 80$ < 1428815045 226476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they know speaking Italian? < 1428815049 577719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.fsf.org/category/stuffed-gnu/ lots of things in the stuffed gnus category < 1428815059 306112 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: he spoke english < 1428815084 813326 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he did that saint ignucius thing :D < 1428815094 194161 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun < 1428815101 33074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqgPyqyh4X4 < 1428815105 214261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I want to go to Italy, I would want to learn speaking Italian though. < 1428815163 179862 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it was just a trip for a conference o_o < 1428815189 810414 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i'd like to visit japan eventually but i'm not going to spend 15 years learning japanese < 1428815275 544664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very much dedication, izabera < 1428815296 323163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will you understand what people are saying if you don't master japanese before going there < 1428815307 287284 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dedication stops at watching subbed anime <.< < 1428815319 124919 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the plural of anime? < 1428815320 544282 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :animes? < 1428815336 287830 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is anyone fansubbing literal real life japan < 1428815349 419723 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too watched some sub anime such as Kaiji < 1428815358 583143 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's "anime" if you don't want to be silly, "animes" if you do. < 1428815367 633813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess pedantically it'd be "anime series" or something in the first place anyway.) < 1428815388 678698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that video was about twice as long as necessary. although more topical than expected. < 1428815400 542404 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am (somewhat half-heartedly, I admit) trying to learn Italian for a trip I am planning later this year < 1428815402 224817 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to watch Akagi and Kaiji? < 1428815439 823276 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I watch anime without subtitles sometimes... I'm not good at it yet so I have to keep rewinding < 1428815446 585063 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION teaches Taneb all her italian: pizza pasta mamma mia < 1428815460 23848 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, that is not much italian < 1428815465 182123 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1428815465 947745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: bonjour < 1428815471 195497 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: croissant < 1428815475 500794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding. that's spanish < 1428815479 345338 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is less Italian < 1428815484 135202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats elliott -----### < 1428815489 196635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :spanish is at least 14% italian. < 1428815493 704833 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cappuccino espresso latte macchiatto < 1428815519 501753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if boily were here you'd be in for a mapole as well. < 1428815521 468588 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buongiorno, donne e uomini (I think) < 1428815525 1367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure. < 1428815525 523609 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually 90% of the italians share that opinion < 1428815543 199797 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Italian and Spanish are at times mutually intelligible < 1428815552 650848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I only say facts!! and true things < 1428815553 707934 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's very formal < 1428815561 753721 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ciao ragazze e ragazzi < 1428815576 243868 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, I am a very formal person, I sometimes even wear a tie < 1428815576 930895 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very informal < 1428815579 110258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lied, none of those words are pizza, pasta, or mamma. or mia. < 1428815589 455632 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg ties are so 1800 < 1428815624 176879 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never worn a tie in my entire life. < 1428815650 829100 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have several ties, but I've mostly only worn them to operas < 1428815662 500053 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :operas D: < 1428815663 978817 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and weddings I guess < 1428815682 138668 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on the good side, this channel makes me feel young < 1428815691 972709 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the bad side, this channel makes me feel too young < 1428815701 605902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb is probably younger than you? < 1428815707 408083 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well idk maybe Taneb is old now < 1428815708 411452 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm 22 < 1428815713 603345 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am younger than yu < 1428815716 336567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 19. < 1428815716 631255 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1428815717 714766 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you < 1428815718 995981 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am 20 < 1428815720 686554 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you :C < 1428815724 268460 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I was born may 10 1993 < 1428815733 346820 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also younger than orin < 1428815735 338868 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ash holes ;-; < 1428815743 899601 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry! < 1428815747 624604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I still the youngest person here? that would be weirder now than when I was 11 < 1428815766 779095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have I been in this godforsaken channel for eight years < 1428815791 495483 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing better to do? < 1428815801 796422 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheap internet? < 1428815809 805230 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :free food? < 1428815810 934119 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: maybe you're a supergenius < 1428815812 401829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former was true for a depressing number of years, more or less < 1428815818 280895 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get free food here?? < 1428815830 577189 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there's a buffet by the mapole < 1428815839 807473 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't go near the mapole. < 1428815841 268472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too dangerous. < 1428815841 751657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: 's ok i'm 44 < 1428815850 994771 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :*_* < 1428815857 817507 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks *.* < 1428815907 961279 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I have been to like at least 8 operas < 1428815926 296950 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they sell popcorn? < 1428815928 361858 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is like, 8, more operas than I have been to < 1428815934 222368 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to an Operetta once < 1428815938 650248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't cpressey older than you oerjan? < 1428815939 494875 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1428815950 681853 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't monqy younger than you, elliott? < 1428815970 516764 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: no, you're not allowed to eat during an opera, eating is noisy < 1428815987 468042 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :bummer < 1428815987 580369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i dunno... < 1428816003 986036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: monqy was I think, yeah < 1428816076 729207 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we're mentioning people who aren't _present_, i suspect Lil^WHe of a dozen names is also younger than elliott < 1428816116 562228 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe one of the people joining for esoterica stuff for like five seconds was, like, 60 < 1428816119 664560 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I helping, izabera < 1428816131 162639 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :allot < 1428816145 302436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't you remember that COBOL guy? he was older than me < 1428816167 638123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btiggins or something like that < 1428816176 922116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't Rugxlo or whatever his name was too < 1428816177 452151 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know cobol but i know sed and sed is older :( < 1428816180 342102 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with different actual letters) < 1428816208 290031 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed older than COBOL? i'm skeptical. < 1428816209 671347 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying but I'm actually an immortal being who has been alive for ten thousand years and you're all whippersnappers < 1428816220 593011 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you too? < 1428816223 548191 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed is the oldest language on unix < 1428816223 674490 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even older than unix actually < 1428816224 528904 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I was the only one! < 1428816230 96999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: get off my turf. < 1428816240 929954 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera, COBOL is, too < 1428816248 111544 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1428816254 559373 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :COBOL dates to 1959 < 1428816266 909486 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is considerably older than sed < 1428816272 481863 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok o_o < 1428816274 690792 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry then < 1428816286 248024 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like paleo-it < 1428816310 642441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know lisp < 1428816313 662962 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from 1958 theoretically < 1428816333 258373 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :only emacs users do < 1428816334 504847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of like saying you know BCPL because you know C though < 1428816334 825065 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not < 1428816340 717945 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use vim and know lisp :( < 1428816349 560060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, there's a buffet by the mapole <-- beware of the poutine < 1428816372 756361 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about the gazspacho? < 1428816401 882717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay sometimes I use emacs but rarely < 1428816422 78326 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can C-x C-c < 1428816422 207775 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a little lisp but I am not very good at it < 1428816434 911722 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, C-x C-c. the :wq of emacs < 1428816447 756536 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it's also w < 1428816490 937004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1428816500 740930 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that tastes szupérb < 1428816579 339149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i don't understand why they teach :wq instead of :x < 1428816591 603815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or :xa < 1428816591 669525 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't use vim, I am afraid < 1428816629 888739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is :x like ZZ < 1428816652 383206 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you guys use bash and its vi mode, you may like this < 1428816653 856017 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :if shopt -oq vi; then < 1428816655 909171 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : alias :{x,{,w}q}{,a}=exit :e=vim :h=man info='info --vi-keys' < 1428816658 16755 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi < 1428816689 470709 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can type :wq in your shell to exit < 1428816690 95591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you ever :wqa bash as opposed to just :qing it < 1428816691 103024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ah indeed < 1428816706 664732 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually _often_ < 1428816735 166355 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a musclar reflex at this point < 1428816740 609292 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1428816788 597439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shop.fsf.org/product/gnu-emacs-reference-mugs/ http://shop.fsf.org/product/signed-rms-photo-print/ < 1428817193 223380 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not one million years old < 1428817388 441364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if C-x C-c works in bash < 1428817391 955401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it knows a lot of Emacs bindings < 1428817431 158398 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, very few people are < 1428817438 252171 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :None, at a guess < 1428817518 834541 :mbrcknl_!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aapcmmsqfovglugw JOIN :#esoteric < 1428817562 73556 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :binding C-c in bash is kinda hard since stty gets in the way < 1428817568 527746 :edwardk_!sid47016@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1428817738 546275 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does the job... stty intr ''; bind -x '"\C-x\C-c":exit' < 1428817761 481642 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't make it work without unsetting it for stty :\ < 1428817813 545472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you ever win a Ig Nobel prize for proving that it is impossible to use complex numbers in accounting? < 1428817836 744809 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not yet < 1428817926 870283 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1428817929 430590 :mbrcknl!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znpmfiiktuxzwqfx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1428817929 970025 :skarn!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn QUIT :*.net *.split < 1428817930 256890 :edwardk!sid47016@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :*.net *.split < 1428817930 743553 :skarn_!skarn@unaffiliated/skarn JOIN :#esoteric < 1428818037 460546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but soon? < 1428818050 992500 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually < 1428818059 150053 :mbrcknl_!sid28171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aapcmmsqfovglugw NICK :mbrcknl < 1428818116 153762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after you learn japanese < 1428818121 189374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had proven such thing, but now I forgot how. Nevertheless it isn't what I was trying to do; I was trying to figure out how to use complex numbers in accounting, but instead I concluded it is impossible and also invented matrix accounting too due to that. It is possible to try to make one thing but you can make something else instead. < 1428818131 982806 :edwardk_!sid47016@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk NICK :edwardk < 1428819916 291496 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1428820293 215402 :zadock!~zadock@79.116.107.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428821395 476082 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1428821946 479311 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1428821984 890813 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1428822034 215206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Beatnik14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42365&oldid=42364 5* 030x0dea 5* (+327) 10Add infinite loop example < 1428823560 142279 :zadock!~zadock@79.116.107.84 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1428824456 720192 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"13 Pop a number and skip ahead n (actually n+1) words if the number is zero." < 1428824462 256378 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... what n? < 1428824523 660069 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1428824562 719205 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-229.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1428824562 758225 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1428824610 148728 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :off by one horror < 1428824680 431765 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1428824693 505300 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is n if it's not "the number" < 1428824786 726758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one thing i can think of is that possibly he means the +1 to be the "normal" word increment after any instruction < 1428824827 991340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION paranoidly checks author name, whew looks male < 1428824838 379070 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but as i said: that's not what bothers me < 1428824848 31395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1428824855 241359 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what the hell n is < 1428824879 15636 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if n is in fact "the number", 13 is just a nop < 1428824902 137648 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1428824905 619527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that the commands corresponding to values 5, 13, 14, 15, and 16 each read an extra word and use it as a parameter (then skip it)." < 1428824917 299511 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1428824928 309684 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's that skip that's the +1, then < 1428825045 343700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm "but it ought to be able to simulate any Push-down automaton" < 1428825105 479655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm suspicious that it might not be able to do sufficiently complicated flow control because the size limits also affect jump distance < 1428825167 699000 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what size limit < 1428825203 663935 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in this case, the max scrabble score, i guess < 1428825240 673936 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the examples mad3 me think you could do arbitrary long words < 1428825275 248121 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but longer programs might not quite look like real sentences < 1428825295 375562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the interpreter doesn't enforce dictionary words < 1428825309 744942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the examples are, aren't they? < 1428825338 866142 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you _could_ do is jumping backwards to a position that jumps backwards < 1428825386 185732 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to jump over them if you read forward < 1428825406 938518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but you'd get a traffic jam, essentially, if you had too many paths < 1428825465 500149 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1428825481 423562 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am not quite sure if this is really not tc < 1428825506 999723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tc it is not. there is no infinite memory other than the stack. < 1428825520 993188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is whether you can get all pushdown automata. < 1428825534 56059 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deterministic) < 1428825553 859873 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is , and 9 is .; 5 1 7 is + and 5 1 10 is - < 1428825594 73995 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ and ] _should_ be able to translate into 13-16 < 1428825594 208338 :j-bot!~j-bot@li339-21.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: |ill-formed number < 1428825603 106919 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is > and < < 1428825616 410042 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had a second stack, it could be tc < 1428825631 734860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh for the other size limit, "and since data items are finite (integers from 0 to 255)" < 1428825658 768740 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that holds true to bf too, doesn't it? < 1428825691 748491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes in many versions < 1428825718 174066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing is, without a cell limit you don't need unlimited number of cells < 1428825727 126771 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't .,+-[] enough for a push-down automaton? < 1428825786 547350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you don't have general [] if you don't have arbitrary long words < 1428825794 549768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, then probably. < 1428825961 851065 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cliffle.com/esoterica/beatnik.html looks a bit different from the esolang description < 1428825991 304337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explains your original question clearly < 1428826088 745757 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the second paragraph < 1428826477 853535 :MoALTz!~no@78.11.179.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428826930 134662 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: byeannes < 1428826946 154084 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Beatnik14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42366&oldid=42365 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+189) 10/* Computational class */ Quibble on PDA < 1428829238 345977 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1428829573 816670 :roman2!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1428829580 56408 :roman2!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord morning everybody < 1428829629 223178 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1428829898 372345 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in ayacc, consider making it possible to have multiple start symbols to choose from when you start the parser, at least in the non-compatibility interface? I believe currently you have to emulate that by injecting an extra terminal symbol at the start from the tokenizer, which is fine for theory but ugly. < 1428829920 552883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't be too hard to implement, at least < 1428829935 800574 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1428829951 230987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that that would require some sort of syntax extension, or else to compile all possible start symbols < 1428829981 27296 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax extension could be a new declaration type < 1428829995 54928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just multiple copies of %start declarations < 1428830004 400783 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no, it's not so easy < 1428830019 226119 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not clear how you'd decide from them in the C entrance interface < 1428830205 95395 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, all these extra features are less important. the most important thing is that ayacc should always generate correct output, even for unusual grammars. < 1428830280 709758 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-218-40.residential.rdsnet.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1428830300 725019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1428830311 856303 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428830428 169458 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can do that, than this will probably already be worth to use over bison < 1428830436 217353 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ/Esolangs14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42367&oldid=22963 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+129) 10Updated user page. < 1428830565 271160 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh by the way, how will the license of this work? if I have a constant grammar, can I put the C code output under public domain? < 1428830591 206055 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the generated C code output portable, not depending on specifics of the system, so this can be done usefully? < 1428830612 377231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: unlike flex, the output is going to be direct-coded and have hardly any verbatim copies from the input file < 1428830616 527503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, unlike bison < 1428830624 396094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the output will probably be licensed the same way as the input < 1428830630 743363 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1428830677 954023 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even if it does have verbatim copies from a template, that template could be in public domain while ayacc as a whole is licensed differently. that's how autotools works I think.) < 1428830736 48822 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1428830745 941351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :autotools works vaguely like that but unnecessarily complicated, I think < 1428830964 234454 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:54 < elliott> finnish merges them all into "it", right? ← well, kinda. there's hän which is only for humans and se which is for everything < 1428830982 258478 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally using se for humans is less formal < 1428831264 776216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, normal parsing theory seems to make a distinction between shift actions and goto actions < 1428831273 554503 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider them to be the same, and they are in many cases < 1428831280 431457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but added a few of my own for optimization purposes < 1428831290 748000 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift_and_reduce actions, degenerate reduce actions, cast actions < 1428831319 685933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indirect actions, which basically just combine the common code of two states that are almost but not quite identical < 1428831337 4605 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, so many optimizations < 1428831348 801818 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you'll need a big testsuite for this, which isn't easy < 1428831438 907321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using C-INTERCAL ;-) < 1428831455 364055 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it seems that there's a name for the sort of implementation I'm using: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_ascent_parser < 1428831468 936119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the optimizations make it look less messy than what's shown there < 1428831498 240845 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, C-intercal is a nice idea < 1428831514 660497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is a pain to parse < 1428831519 29182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes for a good parser testsuite < 1428831530 131261 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um yes, but some of that pain is in the lexer, isn't it? < 1428831537 896015 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the non-yacc part in general < 1428831612 798743 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly any < 1428831632 261744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only help the grammar needs from the lexer is to identify whether a spark/ears is necessarily opening, or could be closing < 1428831703 825755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the case of "could be closing", it's assumed that it isn't ever opening; this is the hack that removes ambiguity and makes the language LALR(1) in the first place, and it's mentioned in the INTERCAL-72 manual) < 1428831761 568863 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have to disambiguate between overlapping keywords like DO NOT GIVE UPLEASE ,3 <- #0 < 1428831811 8325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly technically we have to, but we don't currently < 1428831961 635119 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, here's a sample warning message: < 1428831967 392293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ayacc: warning: shift/reduce conflict on symbol ELSE at t.y line 8 < 1428831968 786187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ayacc: info: conflict is reached after, e.g., IF expr THEN IF expr THEN stmt . ELSE < 1428831970 289211 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : ayacc: info: to resolve the conflict: specify a precedence for ELSE and THEN < 1428831978 514993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much better than bison :-) < 1428832005 377424 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1428832008 175778 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed much better < 1428832017 530581 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42368 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+1274) 10New esolang! < 1428832030 510497 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does posix yacc or bison or ayacc guarantee to not read the lookahead token if you can decide which rule to run without the lookahead? < 1428832062 70596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example is sometimes badly wrong in the case of a reduce/reduce conflict, but that's because due to deficiencies of LALR(1), sometimes there is no example and the conflict's completely spurious < 1428832085 105972 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1428832095 958821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, there's a guarantee to not read into the lookahead token if the current state unconditionally reduces and always by the same rule < 1428832098 41690 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's when the grammar is LR(1) but not LALR(1) < 1428832100 306403 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm optimizing those states out entirely < 1428832104 160488 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ/Esolangs14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42369&oldid=42367 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-46) 10 < 1428832108 466748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what a shift_then_reduce action is for < 1428832124 36413 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you aren't reading the lookahead token anyway, no need to actually run the logic of the state in question < 1428832127 194037 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good, but guarantee in what? posix yacc too, or only ayacc? < 1428832132 284342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :guarantee in posix yacc < 1428832136 269050 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1428832191 976868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me a while to find where it says that (it's near the end), but it does < 1428832202 281024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that guarantee exists because it's practically useful < 1428832206 234728 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it does make things less consistent < 1428832227 74637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think rules would prefer to know that the lookahead token had always been read, rather than sometimes being read and sometimes not < 1428832238 943450 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's practically useful, both for reading interactive input, and for crazy stuff like that seeking tokenizer I've shown yesterday < 1428832240 184452 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Rdococ14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42370&oldid=40356 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+121) 10 < 1428832254 341521 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually just a head seeking in the tokenized stream) < 1428832268 173292 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I wouldn't prefer it always read < 1428832289 807560 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would be even worse in that hypothetical LALR(2) mode) < 1428832294 131109 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428832310 108175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1428832315 555509 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would just lead to kludges like emitting two tokens when a newline is read interactively < 1428832374 788364 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi guys < 1428832510 232186 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... I have an article about an esolang -- it explains everything while being a really short stub... what should I do? < 1428832578 886751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :post it anyway and put {{stub}} at the start < 1428832592 195779 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the esolang is the sort of esolang that's impossible to spend more than a couple of sentences describing < 1428832593 676782 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1428832598 855833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it should probably be on the joke languages list < 1428832626 403899 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to program in, it's equivalent to a finite state automaton. However, it does only take a couple of sentences to describe it. < 1428832639 442042 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I add it to the joke language list anyway? < 1428832655 156089 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure 'joke' means something other than just 'really short stub'... < 1428832663 934401 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm rambling now, thanks < 1428832693 521919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's possible to program in, it's not a joke < 1428832694 405394 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: maybe add some example programs to make it longer? < 1428832700 701959 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42371&oldid=42368 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+9) 10 < 1428832702 372172 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well, if it's possible to program in /and/ possible to implement < 1428832722 498926 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit like Text in the fact it's already implemented. < 1428832722 556708 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, add an implementation too < 1428832724 920074 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this is sufficient to not be a joke, but not necessary, some non-joke languages would be hard or impossible to program in < 1428832728 540621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to implement < 1428832776 623378 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know Text, where there are already programs to interpret it? well my esolang is like that, but it's got better computation power. < 1428832791 628362 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not saying it's better, I should've reworded that < 1428832803 34601 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text probably counts as a joke < 1428832831 778070 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: then add links to implementations to the description of the language < 1428832832 127934 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think mine is a joke... not too much of one, anyway < 1428832894 399245 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but the point is, everyone already has an implementation - the language's like Text in that way < 1428832920 771116 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text -> most OSes already have an implementation. Folder -> same thing. < 1428833090 186686 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Beatnik14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42372&oldid=42366 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-175) 10I convinced myself I was wrong about unlimited word length being needed < 1428833818 37112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1428833818 518027 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428833822 221559 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1428833850 948184 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42373&oldid=42371 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+10) 10Some people have to double-click to open stuff, so 'any user can click one of the transitions' is technically incorrect and might cause confusion. < 1428833911 132737 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that language works much better with symlinks/junctions < 1428833948 477462 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at that point, it's basically just a funky encoding for an FSM, or is it a PDA? < 1428833996 199645 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1428834004 453835 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: actually this is much more complex than it looks < 1428834031 294185 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because symlinks don't work quite the same way as shortcuts, and I think it may make a difference to computational power < 1428834046 80357 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, I've never heard of symlinks. < 1428834053 887035 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but continue, I'm intrigued. < 1428834077 335574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a "shortcut" isn't a filesystem feature, it's a feature of the Windows graphical shell < 1428834109 105070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you follow a shortcut, Explorer opens up a specific file or directory or other shell object for you (the internal name is "shell links") < 1428834128 916234 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a symlink, meanwhile, is a filesystem feature, it basically forms an asymmetrical alias < 1428834162 825125 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why is it a difference in computational power; and the shell can treat symlinks in at least two ways in some operations I think < 1428834201 186645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if I create a symlink "a" pointing at "../b/c" in "/d/e", then "/d/e/a" is a different name for the same file as "/d/b/c" < 1428834211 304164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the two names are treated as distinct for some purposes < 1428834230 531416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing what those purposes are is probably important to know if this is an FSM or PDA, and I can't remember offhnad < 1428834256 929392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: basically, you can't construct unboundedly long paths with shortcuts < 1428834259 304241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can with symlinks < 1428834274 772820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the PDAness is based on whether there's some way to /read/ the path using only the basic operation of Folder < 1428834318 732052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I mean, it's above FSM because you can just use shortcuts to .. to do bracket matching < 1428834327 927315 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if you get an actual PDA stack, or just a coutner < 1428834336 906058 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bracket matching? < 1428834340 465279 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaning towards PDA at this point < 1428834354 298085 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: given a string consisting only of ( and ) characters, determine whether they match correctly < 1428834365 295288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an FSM can't do that, but it's trivial for almost any PDA implementation < 1428834373 498207 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying my esolang could be a PDA instead of an FSM? < 1428834376 401153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1428834379 724726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may depend on the oS < 1428834381 234471 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OS < 1428834387 521248 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is interesting < 1428834396 567754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :proving languages that people think are FSMs are actually PDAs is one of my hobbies < 1428834402 299466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Keymaker-Splinter < 1428834423 656482 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you entirely sure, or is it going to be controversial? < 1428834432 719154 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe “< ais523> proving languages that people think are FSMs are actually PDAs is one of my hobbies” < 1428834441 786821 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we add this to a quotation bot? < 1428834452 623006 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to < 1428834455 860653 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it would be a PDA though < 1428834457 503052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I'm not 100% sure < 1428834473 708897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I currently think it's more than 50% likely but can't be much more confident than that < 1428834489 388129 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is mostly based on deficiencies in my understanding of symlinks, rather than in my understanding of PDAs < 1428834496 392953 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : I don't think languages can be FSMs or PDAs. They can be capable of expressing FSMs or PDAs, sure, but a language is not a program < 1428834500 363297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :directory hardlinks add an extra layer of complication < 1428834509 530666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I elided "equivalent in power to" < 1428834510 999481 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1428834572 306087 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1428834583 906765 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I use shortcuts only? < 1428834587 444170 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but directory hardlinks shouldn't exist < 1428834609 458709 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you said... < 1428834611 425816 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1428834767 786453 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your username on the wiki? I want to credit you on the talk page < 1428834791 506156 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, found it < 1428834871 552257 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see how it could be more powerful than a fsm. < 1428834871 857167 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I call you a he or a she? < 1428834903 282844 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of symlink-related computing, http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/symlinks/index.php < 1428834905 720932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was about to say 'his name is alex, so...' and then i realised that doesn't help at all < 1428834916 526169 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it could do the stuff a PDA can do, I wonder if it could combine the computational power of both. < 1428834954 104046 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I think, he might be male. But maybe that's just a cultural bias, and I don't really mind. < 1428834968 421069 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should use the singular 'they' < 1428835086 545889 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... tell me < 1428835101 721625 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's very definitely male, though < 1428835113 730124 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I'll trust you < 1428835206 526920 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Folder14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42374 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+376) 10My esolang is more interesting now, I guess...? < 1428835394 635044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Something < 1428835515 530087 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42375&oldid=42373 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+586) 10Updated definition a bit, updated computational class. < 1428835569 640942 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42376&oldid=42375 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+0) 10Fixed incorrect link. < 1428835648 516770 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I tend not to use gendered pronouns when talking about myself in the third person < 1428835660 624747 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, my gender is possibly too well-known by now < 1428835728 138500 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually I'm not that fussed about revealing my gender... < 1428835787 285773 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :when do you talk about yourself in third person? writing a cv or something? < 1428835801 665057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION talks about themself in the third person < 1428835835 506083 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so self-referencing statements < 1428835854 232957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"talking about myself" tends to be self-referencing. < 1428835987 577300 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... can't you add flags to a shortcut link like -r for shutdown - atleast in windows? < 1428836050 956960 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ik it's not limited to shortcuts, but it sounds interesting) < 1428836096 634175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: you can, because Windows shortcuts are kind-of complex < 1428836101 485434 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and badly designed in many ways, too < 1428836147 13558 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're sort of a carry-on from windows 95, and in some ways maybe even from windows 3.1 < 1428836158 471335 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably made sense back then < 1428836163 350272 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... does that add any extra computational power or can you just emulate the behavior in an FSA? < 1428836189 511253 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1428836227 209118 :nszceta!~nszceta@109.232.227.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428836481 4625 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know what 'use shortcuts to do bracket matching' means < 1428836727 134901 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1428836981 217259 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428837168 314740 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-218-40.residential.rdsnet.ro QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1428837200 858331 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: maybe set your text editor up to automatically insert a matching ')' after the cursor when you type '(' < 1428837238 893862 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1428837278 890095 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1428837322 340192 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1428837485 165977 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that would be a shortcut < 1428837602 126382 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42377&oldid=42376 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-387) 10Simplified explanation a little < 1428837630 836510 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? chrome messed up on me, so I can't see the chat history < 1428837642 495053 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still don't know what you mean < 1428837712 63322 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, do you know if my programming language is a FSA or a PDA? < 1428837935 664739 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-235-73.residential.rdsnet.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1428838563 738974 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-235-73.residential.rdsnet.ro QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1428839054 894124 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any tips on draining an ocean < 1428839159 70572 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: there is no spoon < 1428839165 287437 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need to have as much drain bandwidth as there is water coming in? < 1428839186 794258 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this dwarf fortress? < 1428839193 747283 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: don't rush it, start slowly, then speed up but not much < 1428839236 902140 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.85.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428839253 523685 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.85.155 PART :#esoteric < 1428839270 185380 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah in DF. < 1428839295 83006 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.85.155 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428839299 97813 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trrying to drain an underground ocean to get at some rare minerals < 1428839314 90103 :zadock!~zadock@79.116.110.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428839532 248300 :yump!97e3cf6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.227.207.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428839623 512933 :yump!97e3cf6c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.227.207.108 QUIT :Client Quit < 1428839863 907487 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, cavern lakes fill from any open tiles at the edge of the map < 1428839874 199829 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :draining them entirely is very hard and will kill your fps < 1428839894 132374 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the most practical way of making an area accessible is to pour magma over it < 1428839958 186203 :zadock!~zadock@79.116.110.252 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1428840058 934606 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1428840117 854142 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.85.155 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1428840585 22816 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42378&oldid=42362 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+263) 10 < 1428840743 921453 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-209-71.residential.rdsnet.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1428840874 596404 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1428841260 822712 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42379&oldid=42377 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-35) 10Not sure, with the requirements and specifications, that the argument for PDA holds. However, there's still discussion. < 1428841316 543062 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42380&oldid=42374 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+17) 10 < 1428841317 268324 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-209-71.residential.rdsnet.ro QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1428841530 892685 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Folder14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42381&oldid=42380 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-137) 10Rewritten the talk message < 1428841643 590841 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42382&oldid=42379 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+0) 10capitalized 'F' in 'Folder program' and 'Folder programming language' < 1428841986 498048 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42383&oldid=42382 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+92) 10Changes to the computational class section < 1428842040 405043 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42384&oldid=42383 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+0) 10Minor change to the link to the talk page. < 1428842078 760297 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-234-237.residential.rdsnet.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1428842772 696593 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-234-237.residential.rdsnet.ro QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1428843015 754211 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :“probably the most practical way of making an area accessible is to pour magma over it” -- hehe, sounds strange < 1428843464 584278 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :greybera < 1428843527 765669 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-201-143.residential.rdsnet.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1428843741 923243 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-174-252.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1428843771 101449 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-174-252.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1428844156 156273 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: dwarf fortress? < 1428844218 777408 :zadock!~zadock@5-13-201-143.residential.rdsnet.ro QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1428844270 845158 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-072-174-252.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1428844301 970784 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-092-072-174-252.092.072.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1428844370 234318 :greybera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera NICK :izabera < 1428844667 327898 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!science!! < 1428844737 422157 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Black Buoy has been painted yellow to avoid collisions." < 1428844768 971991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still called the Black Buoy, apparently. < 1428844837 216347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1428844845 629637 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428845000 166768 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's going well so far. I haven't got down to magma yet, so I'm digging large width drainage channels < 1428845081 463244 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later if I get magma, I'll pour it over the edges where the water comes in, so I can excavate more < 1428845229 751179 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far some of the seabed is at 1-2 < 1428845398 258801 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The next one I'm opening is 15 squares wide < 1428845542 801854 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1428845804 307037 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is, the entring wter is 15 wide, so the drain needs to be nearby and 15 wide) < 1428845922 414998 :nszceta!~nszceta@109.232.227.133 QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1428845993 273491 :nszceta!~nszceta@109.232.227.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428846150 457817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1428846219 401901 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if magma is !!SCIENCE!! then what I'm doing is !!ENGINEERING!! < 1428846556 510745 :roman2!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm... < 1428846587 40168 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway if all goes well I'll soon have acess to a green ore called "garnierite" which I assume can be smelted into shampoo < 1428846915 527330 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1428847197 631325 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snag.gy/gHJOc.jpg < 1428847315 791906 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42385&oldid=41658 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+41) 10/* vandalismScript */ new section < 1428847440 778350 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42386&oldid=42385 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+45) 10/* vandalismScript */ < 1428847682 812466 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42387&oldid=42386 5* 03101.226.125.113 5* (+150) 10/* VandalismScript */ < 1428847914 787197 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42388&oldid=42387 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+0) 10/* Hello, World */ < 1428848222 392990 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42389&oldid=42388 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+36) 10/* VandalismScript */ < 1428848564 648238 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42390&oldid=42389 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+28) 10/* Cat Program */ < 1428848816 602355 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User talk:Esowiki201529A14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42391&oldid=42390 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+14) 10/* Hello, World! */ < 1428849405 21139 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42392&oldid=42384 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (-1528) 10命名冲突 < 1428849603 446225 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42393&oldid=42392 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+1528) 10Undo revision 42392 by [[Special:Contributions/Esowiki201529A|Esowiki201529A]] ([[User talk:Esowiki201529A|talk]]) < 1428850192 903491 :bixnode!~disinfo4@185.80.129.128 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1428850436 898668 :EVANGELIS!~andromeda@254.Red-88-24-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1428850531 60893 :EVANGELIS!~andromeda@254.Red-88-24-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk < 1428850561 736519 :EVANGELIS!~andromeda@254.Red-88-24-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-$ < 1428850665 475902 :EVANGELIS!~andromeda@254.Red-88-24-141.staticIP.rima-tde.net PART :#esoteric < 1428851422 454931 :codeitagile!~codeitagi@host213-122-96-123.range213-122.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1428853252 121816 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1428853978 368681 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1428855705 980927 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42394&oldid=42339 5* 030x0dea 5* (+236) 10Add Ruby interpreter < 1428856554 941593 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forensic I.T.! My mother lost a ring, so I pointed out we can tell when she lost it by looking at her numreous facebook pictures < 1428856702 838725 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! wut, some vandal deleted my article and put it back? < 1428856883 371208 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I translated the weird comment on the person that deleted the stuff on my article. Translated, it's "Naming conflicts"... Was he meaning to make a language called 'Folder' too?! < 1428857259 373736 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't worry about it... maybe it was a mistake < 1428857415 754244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :esowiki201529a makes a lot of weird edits < 1428857441 358177 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what they're doing. < 1428857463 834201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't seem to be an obvious vandal. maybe just a non-native speaker with some weird ideas about the wiki >_> < 1428857493 504354 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that emote at the end for?! < 1428857511 294920 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not his fault he's a foreign speaker < 1428857520 581472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean to imply that, sorry. < 1428857531 753563 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1428857561 90751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was more a >_> of "they tried to rename my language out of the blue by editing the page and moving it once" :P < 1428857618 496138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also didn't think that they might be a non-native speaker before that edit, since all their previous edits were in English if anything.) < 1428857675 594927 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... < 1428857871 969793 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the "naming conflict" thing was pointing out that there was already a language called "Folder", anyway. < 1428857874 939290 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's a problem < 1428857887 144530 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was? < 1428857944 891294 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's a uniqueness requirement for esolang names. < 1428857958 481477 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right... 'Folders'... < 1428857973 792679 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem about that < 1428857999 219417 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty different... but this is interestin < 1428858001 969662 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1428858052 93992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, "Folders", sorry. < 1428858054 893345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to type that. < 1428858285 441274 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's certainly interesting < 1428858560 205708 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42395&oldid=42393 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+24) 10added distinguish tag because of naming conflicts < 1428858670 91998 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42396&oldid=42395 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+19) 10So there's no distinguish tag... < 1428858904 302141 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1428858950 656655 :codeitagile!~codeitagi@host213-122-96-123.range213-122.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1428859002 910124 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... is that 'not to be confused with' necessary? < 1428859290 823373 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1428859336 28975 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07POGAACK14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42397&oldid=41281 5* 0392.81.166.144 5* (+31) 10 < 1428859770 604627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1428859778 310930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't hurt and might be useful but if you really don't want it there you can remove it < 1428859803 608212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be confusing because they both have broadly similar concepts. < 1428859954 900577 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1428860120 839954 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42398&oldid=42396 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-43) 10 < 1428860138 474988 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably should've done some kind of undo function < 1428860147 853824 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is one, but nevermind < 1428860212 38004 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea... File! < 1428860329 96058 :nszceta!~nszceta@109.232.227.133 QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1428861509 622938 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1428861784 64667 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :History book titles from the future < 1428861845 452570 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Folder is such an easy programming language... now I just need a hard one < 1428861849 898003 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :``Trigger Warning, Don't like don't look: The subjective reality of the early 2000s < 1428861879 120794 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `Trigger: not found < 1428861922 511601 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :God damn it those are opening quotes not... agh < 1428861927 334886 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder, could a language based on algebra and logic be turing complete - or even an unknown computational class? < 1428861950 886715 :orin!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, Is prolog turing complete, I forget < 1428861972 417963 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, because I read somewhere datalog was supposed not to be < 1428862002 913155 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'pure' prolog, whatever that would mean, yes < 1428862138 228559 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! I know! functional bf? < 1428862138 329977 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :How exciting! < 1428862138 707052 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks egobot < 1428862181 93247 :nszceta!~nszceta@109.232.227.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1428862464 521457 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1428862572 894634 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other definitions of programming languages could already be interpreted by applications everyone has? < 1428862645 637982 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... if you can go on hyperlinks to go to other web pages, could you put links to other program states in a program state written as a .html file?! < 1428862691 573729 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a folder containing HTML files can simulate an FSA. < 1428862706 685597 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it has no JS, or CSS, etc. < 1428862714 16896 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like ten languages identical to https://esolangs.org/wiki/Text on the wiki < 1428862717 46397 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you count that < 1428862738 16384 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you show me one < 1428862745 139695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did; the one I linked. :p < 1428862748 709652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Wiki_Cyclic_Tag is more interesting < 1428863298 52637 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Object oriented thue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42399&oldid=40557 5* 034D enthusiast 5* (+263) 10/* stdio */ added HexOutput & HexInput classes < 1428863373 807528 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Object oriented thue14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42400&oldid=42399 5* 034D enthusiast 5* (+0) 10/* stdtime */ corrected spelling of "hexadecimal" < 1428864961 257452 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1428865794 710903 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1428866044 25221 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42401&oldid=42381 5* 03Rdococ 5* (+296) 10updated discuss page... why did nobody post here < 1428866698 219814 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i ask a stupid question about brainfuck? < 1428866714 644643 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it a shot and we'll see < 1428866722 308260 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: that was an excellent try < 1428866728 502554 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1428866760 676174 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm trying to learn it, just what happens when you move the pointer before the 0th cell? < 1428866782 146870 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the tape supposed to be infinite in both directions? < 1428866797 91400 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. lovely undefined behavior < 1428866817 973698 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :originally, the tape was onesided. but it depends on the implementation. < 1428866847 609098 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that makes a difference in the computational class of bf < 1428866897 446879 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what's the most common implementation? < 1428866904 873605 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: It's Turing-complete either way (assuming an infinite tape). < 1428866918 218230 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure it's infinite, or do you mean unbounded? < 1428866965 874145 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to see a programming language using infinite tape, such that there's an address 'infinity' < 1428866977 750584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I would treat it as an error < 1428866981 66046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is the usual behaviour, too. < 1428866990 568582 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thankies < 1428867001 363760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"right-infinite tape, 8-bit values in cells, 0 on EOF" is what I would consider most standard, personally < 1428867004 169653 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I believe most commonly stepping off the tape to the left is either an error, or does really funny things (the implementation used on the anagol site puts input data there...) < 1428867014 573663 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: I meant infinite < 1428867016 339424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: in some implementations going < lets you access your own source code and modify it(!!) < 1428867026 392060 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, like int-e said. < 1428867030 575388 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdococ: that's fine, because the Turing machine is a theoretical construction. < 1428867050 796585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure if the modifications actually take effect, but I think they do.) < 1428867109 415330 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1428867141 38776 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be ok for an implementation to only have 2**63-1 cells? < 1428867158 671057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be TC but it'd be fine yes < 1428867160 701961 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the unbounded/infinite distinction is a silly computer science one; it's silly because in practice, one still runs into address space limits with things of "unbounded" size.) < 1428867162 909610 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original only had 30k cells < 1428867181 244017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not like there's many people with more than 64 bits of addressable memory < 1428867185 829090 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1428867191 954274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(current CPUs can't even address that much if they wanted to) < 1428867210 256697 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's such thing as an infinite state automaton, whether it's turing complete or not < 1428867270 17808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a turing machine :p < 1428867323 750991 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would use regular expressions to define an infinite number of states, and then you could use those regexp-caught areas to transition to another one of many states < 1428867435 87476 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. string [x] --- concatenate [y] ---> string [x][y] where [x] and [y] are wildcards < 1428867444 505845 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, 48 bits addresses everywhere. (Even ATA addresses 512 byte blocks with 48 bit addresses) < 1428867470 666807 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the state was 'string derp', going 'concatenate herp' would change the state to 'string derpherp'. < 1428867579 336975 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: note that if you had a program which went > 2^63-ish times and then did some random stuff it'd "only" take ~97 years to run < 1428867589 712186 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it wouldn't store anything in the cells on the way technically you could run it on a normal machine < 1428867602 307549 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g., one that uses a hash table to store the tape sparsely, omitting 0s) < 1428867624 555104 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are programs which address a cell past 2^63 without requiring that much addressable memory that we can feasibly run today if we really, really want to < 1428867624 953800 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing an interpreter to learn it < 1428867627 309827 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1428867628 292989 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is beyond irrelevant) < 1428867639 924648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~97 years assuming we can move right on the tape at 3 GHz) < 1428867652 192887 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well what about all the people who want to spend 100 years running a useless brainfuck program using bash, izabera. :( < 1428867670 853468 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck them \o/ < 1428867671 166296 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69            | < 1428867671 167349 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69            >\ < 1428867700 906146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my enterprise will not be investing in your software product < 1428867953 44861 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, even bitcoins might be a better investment than that... < 1428867972 733652 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : it would be interesting to see a programming language using infinite tape, such that there's an address 'infinity' < 1428867988 95303 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy enough, the interesting part is how you get to infinity < 1428868023 5651 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^ -- change address to omega^" < 1428868036 903397 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*omega < 1428868078 864535 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it like having unboundedly many unbounded tapes - one starts from 1, another starts from omega, another starts from 2omega^3. < 1428868090 941566 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the real problem is that with no way of going down, the operation amounts to just clearing the tape) < 1428868120 186686 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could change address to /omega < 1428868152 117853 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd have omega+1, 3omega, 65omega+23, etc. I don't know about exponents though. < 1428868171 391272 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, 2d tape < 1428868176 94455 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bitcoins, I'm somewhat amazed that the hashing rate is not dropping. oh well...) < 1428868202 171380 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1428868208 969782 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gave me an idea < 1428868243 478223 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a machine is a feedback system, user --input--> machine --output--> user, why not describe it like that < 1428868274 935215 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be like an equation or something: y = 3x^2 -- the user puts in a number x, and comes out 3x^2 < 1428868275 573828 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in the moving right 2^63 times while doing nothing scenario, if you're going to admit hashmaps for tape storage you have to allow for optimisation too < 1428868295 747783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably feasible to do it on a modern machine < 1428868302 403159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sure, but then you get into sticky details of how to actually write a program that does that < 1428868306 245480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without it being too big to reasonably store < 1428868316 211138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it wouldn't be that hard < 1428868326 730157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to leave a trail of 0s behind < 1428868342 202203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically you wil lneed enough memory to store a 63-bit integer where you are, I guess) < 1428868351 172942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you're doing fancy stuff and it's harder to optimise away < 1428868359 866198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :look. let me be a pedant in peace ;_; < 1428868385 559076 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, leaving a trail of 0s behind isn't so easy... +[->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+] < 1428868405 89360 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note loop unrolling for extra efficiency) < 1428868413 693983 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol extra < 1428868758 777839 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: how will that stop à 2^63? < 1428868888 893433 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pyth14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42402&oldid=42290 5* 03SuperJedi224 5* (+0) 10 < 1428868911 202984 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you beta test my interpreter when it's ready? < 1428869134 985814 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: why would it stop? < 1428869758 671000 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually we may have to be careful, because state-of-the-art optimizing brainfuck compilers will turn sequences of > signs into a single addition instruction. < 1428869771 26086 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hahaha < 1428869776 975873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they also use finite tapes I think < 1428869796 858502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: there are some good test programs like mandelbrot.b you can use to test it < 1428869802 480323 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(will probably be sloooow in a bash interpreter) < 1428869809 631726 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some programs that specifically try to test edge-cases, not sure though < 1428870185 127421 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if i have [ but no ] ? < 1428870202 645917 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vice versa < 1428870225 201438 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the program shouldn't compile < 1428870244 602002 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're making an interpreter < 1428870261 463693 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you should probably get a runtime error, then < 1428870277 12227 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some preprocessing before the actual interpreting < 1428870336 967860 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also implement some non-error behaviour in this case, for instance assume there are an unlimited amount of virtual [ at the beginning of the program and ] at the end, to match the unmatched brackets in the program < 1428870346 715257 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't think any brainfuck interpreter does that < 1428870368 851653 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1428870370 210313 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1428870423 611583 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows implementations where an extra ] terminates the program < 1428870449 305187 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way is if there is an extra ] then the first extra ] it will treat the rest as input to the program, at the end of the file then it starts reading in the actual input instead. < 1428870464 726746 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now that I think about it, missing ] might crash the thing. < 1428870491 586205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If the program uses the same input stream then the part after ] is the actual input.) < 1428870505 657076 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well, symmetrically, an extra [ should start the program again < 1428870637 528401 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1428870731 711265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1428870982 407311 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the cells supposed to be chars? < 1428871004 587263 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me rephrase that: does [ loop if the current value is 256? < 1428871330 869811 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Folder14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42403&oldid=42398 5* 03Rdococ 5* (-1) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1428871368 117733 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: do whatever seems convenient. < 1428871388 617992 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine either way, just tell me what most other implementations do < 1428871423 122979 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. Originally they were chars, but there are plenty of implementations using int, and some using unbounded natural numbers... < 1428871480 593829 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C6F4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1428871565 716123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: they are usually 0-255 < 1428871573 585604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -128 to 127, whichever interpretation you prefer (they are equivalent) < 1428871583 234055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they usually wrap on overflow and underflow < 1428871589 833004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though plenty of implementations have bignum cells with no limit < 1428871601 230189 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some rarer ones have 16-bit or 32-bit etc., or 8-bit but under/overflow is an error < 1428871614 71558 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit wrapping is the most "classic" though < 1428871618 857368 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1428871639 418013 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strictest implementation I've seen made decrementing 0 and incrementing 255 errors. (some brainfuck golf competition) < 1428871646 953004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally if you have 8-bit wrapping cells, a right-infinite tape, and , sets the cell to 0 on EOF, then you should be able to run pretty much any program people have written unless they're weirdos < 1428871687 132382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you're writing a program and want to be really portable and boring, it's probably best to assume that cells are 0-255 and you can't go outside that, and that , either sets to 0 or does no change on EOF < 1428871696 914917 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(eith they idea that this is the least common denominator of virtually all existing implementations) < 1428871781 578660 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, the three flavors of EOF behavior. < 1428871792 327489 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the third is -1 on EOF) < 1428871848 100234 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a 9 bit Brainfuck (so that -1 can be distinguished from 255). < 1428872051 833318 :nszceta!~nszceta@109.232.227.133 QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1428872055 411788 :rdococ!561ef816@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.30.248.22 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1428872211 681594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, but you can't be portable to both -1 and 0 on EOF, I don't think < 1428872215 856717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, I guess you can? < 1428872219 649093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero it and then check for 0 or -1 < 1428872224 691878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course you rule out both 0 and 255 bytes in the input < 1428872244 924643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the easiest way to loop while not 0 or -1 < 1428872264 39761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[-[+.[-],]]? < 1428872568 118499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's not right < 1428872589 517790 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too tedious, I think you need auxilliary cells. < 1428872592 378031 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1428872704 42609 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, "auxiliary", my old nemesis. < 1428872767 527925 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: is codualization the same as dualization? < 1428873301 533906 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me a concise hello world or something that prints stuff? < 1428873333 992760 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ ++++++++++ +++++ . < 1428873338 153812 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :should that print A ? < 1428873368 969391 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it does in my interpreter) < 1428873457 835674 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think i just broke the [ ] but the rest is fine < 1428873704 505059 :Naprecks!~Naprecks@109.230.236.97 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1428873931 46729 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++[->+++++++<]>... should print three asterisks < 1428873931 353118 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ++++++[->+++++++<]>... should print three asterisks < 1428873931 376519 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1428873931 381070 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*** < 1428875264 909229 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints *** < 1428875267 317740 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :^.^ < 1428875284 471364 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works it works < 1428875358 264269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do we have duplicate !bf's? < 1428875436 980168 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf [ < 1428875593 214387 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada http://arin.ga/hpExIX < 1428875657 128541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf [ better error reporting < 1428875657 261019 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mismatched []. < 1428875659 699117 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :See. < 1428875672 484918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1428875677 125456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : .) printf -v output %o "${tape[cell]}" < 1428875677 244514 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf "\\$output" ;; < 1428875683 760242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the same as printf %o "${tape[cell]}"? < 1428875722 793409 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C6F4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1428875724 953585 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1428875777 878108 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it probably needs to be printf -v output %o "$(( tape[cell] % 256))" < 1428875797 844230 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it prints the octal in the var "output" < 1428875807 336098 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the it actually prints it < 1428875812 964528 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1428875836 622001 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output" < 1428875837 316464 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1428875959 158326 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "\\$(printf %o 65)" # arguably slightly streamlined < 1428875963 20325 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1428875992 639524 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole go-via-octal-escape thing seems silly, but I can't think of anything better offhand either. < 1428876040 866344 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :$() is inefficient < 1428876044 853991 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fork + exec < 1428876161 383243 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ok so this is fine, i guess? same code as above but i added <> ++++++[->+++++++<]>... < 1428876161 455477 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** < 1428876161 689482 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*** < 1428876256 728052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: you have a , in there but it doesn't matter for the demonstration < 1428876268 641737 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1428876270 180041 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1428876272 246504 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1428876276 360401 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice it :D < 1428876291 795697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a danger of bf commenting < 1428876420 681465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I don't think it's a fork + exec when the argument is a builtin. Compare http://sprunge.us/PQRO < 1428876429 652328 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is < 1428876433 938837 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exec < 1428876435 740477 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :still fork < 1428876459 675575 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :forks are cheap, aren't they < 1428876464 803999 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no lol < 1428876490 694746 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $(var=3; echo $var); echo $var < 1428876491 450372 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1428876492 981332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought they did copy-on-write sharing < 1428876499 39836 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? ^ only once < 1428876544 125998 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: There's cheap and then there's cheap. < 1428876570 674542 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have none of your relativism. < 1428876580 29132 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And okay, there's a clone.) < 1428876584 469167 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` time for i in {1..1000}; do printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output"; done >/dev/null < 1428876585 215260 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ real 0m0.041s \ user 0m0.100s \ sys 0m0.000s < 1428876590 651972 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww no time? < 1428876598 851332 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` ( time for i in {1..1000}; do printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output"; done >/dev/null ) 2>&1 < 1428876599 545019 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ real 0m0.045s \ user 0m0.000s \ sys 0m0.000s < 1428876603 437491 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on < 1428876623 287392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, no time? < 1428876653 430270 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS'; ( time for i in {1..1000}; do printf -v output %o 65; printf "\\$output"; done >/dev/null ) 2>&1 < 1428876654 43557 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :real: 0m0.044s, user: 0m0.210s, sys: 0m0.000s < 1428876656 811506 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1428876660 626161 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid bot < 1428876665 738552 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looked just fine earlier, too. < 1428876670 429177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sure, there were some raw tabs. < 1428876682 273114 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` TIMEFORMAT='real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS'; ( time for i in {1..1000}; do printf "\\$(printf %o 65)"; done >/dev/null ) 2>&1 < 1428876695 614473 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :real: 0m12.386s, user: 0m1.980s, sys: 0m9.940s < 1428876702 463553 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.044s vs 12s ?? < 1428876716 216414 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow fork is cheap < 1428876726 65454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite fair to do that particular comparison on the UML box. < 1428876743 903295 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get 0.022s vs 0.364s locally. < 1428876762 914647 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it's sooo cheap < 1428876784 832411 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's only 15(?) times as much < 1428876801 927594 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`time time time < 1428876802 522570 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found < 1428876817 676811 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type time < 1428876818 350611 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :time is a shell keyword < 1428876823 197190 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmhmm. < 1428876824 949049 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run time time < 1428876825 671362 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ real 0m0.000s \ user 0m0.000s \ sys 0m0.000s < 1428876842 243073 :tswett!~tswett@192.241.237.138 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run time time time < 1428876842 862412 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​ \ real 0m0.000s \ user 0m0.000s \ sys 0m0.000s < 1428877059 907258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want an expensive fork, try cygwin < 1428877060 204443 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no COW < 1428877120 875229 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1428877176 743387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is getting ambiguous readings on his sarcasm meter < 1428877236 318214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it just uses Ordinary Exec, no? < 1428877244 5745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cygwin has a slow fork. < 1428877254 582297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, eXec < 1428877287 326821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant for izabera < 1428877287 854575 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be missing a joke. < 1428877306 172696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare `on` acronym < 1428877314 225724 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.o < 1428877322 531988 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1428877373 223901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now is getting ambiguous readings on his confusion vs. groaning meter < 1428877475 432265 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i implemented an interpreter in 3 hours < 1428877477 818502 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a lot? < 1428877494 29336 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i finished it now and it's purrrfect < 1428877522 155235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait is this brainfuck i'm not up to the logs yet < 1428877545 616800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly 3 minutes should be enough for a bf interpreter < 1428877548 458413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1428877548 909346 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1428877565 494236 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this was my first try :( < 1428877580 214463 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even know brainfuck before < 1428877599 142125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a brainfuck interpreter once, it took me several days i think. < 1428877614 152828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*possibly* because i made it in Fueue. < 1428877638 442322 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i know what it is D: < 1428877648 540213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^wiki Fueue < 1428877648 656571 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue < 1428877707 267129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever made one in a normal language. < 1428877761 228685 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i've implemented at least one brainfuck derivative < 1428877822 928863 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit it doesn't work :( < 1428877828 129017 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stupid interpreter < 1428877828 247612 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a pretty slow programmer and would never make a time estimate in earnest btw < 1428877838 322955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Doesn't the handling of [ leave extra stuff in the 'loop' array when []s are skipped? < 1428877860 125980 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... possibly? < 1428877863 491701 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :got an example? < 1428877867 662994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn ventilation is making that noise again < 1428877921 900336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: Um. Not really, or at least one where it'd make a difference. But I still think you want to do loop+=(i) only in the else of the if (( tape[cell] % 256 == 0 )) test. < 1428878074 205420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor izabera < 1428878088 517129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>+++++[-<.>>[]<] < 1428878088 570590 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAA < 1428878092 669880 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: eh? :( < 1428878092 779868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be an example. < 1428878106 173088 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok lemme see < 1428878117 483758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: everyone picking on you :P < 1428878124 653913 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fizzie is helping < 1428878165 926495 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it breaks :( < 1428878186 242338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I assume it's jumping to the opening [ of the []. < 1428878212 296804 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It will be easy to fix.) < 1428878222 340904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because I just fixed it.) < 1428878359 673798 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1428878364 885196 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot < 1428878437 347350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: so when will you do an optimising BF compiler in bash >_> < 1428878440 540166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be the longest bash script I've ever seen that doesn't actually execute any commands. < 1428878468 518985 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: are you talking about that optimizing compiler written in sed? < 1428878473 636363 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess in bash terminology the builtins are still "commands", but you know what I mean. < 1428878481 408561 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :which optimizes x+=5 ? < 1428878495 280243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: not about one in sed in particular < 1428878502 29836 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1428878508 703225 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler is out of reach for now :P < 1428878510 379274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's tons of optimising BF copilers, some of them are quite impressive (can compile a hello world make with loops to just printf("Hello, world!\n");) < 1428878564 32142 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually easier to write a non-optimising BF compiler than an interpreter < 1428878573 531725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can just turn [ into while (tape[ptr]) or whatever, it's string substitution < 1428878577 480263 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still trying to fix something, it stops at the first NUL byte it reads with cat :( < 1428878579 12441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very interesting though < 1428878582 789631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: that's inherent < 1428878592 888267 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1428878596 999987 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since EOF is 0 < 1428878599 336267 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is cat < 1428878601 308162 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1428878603 255714 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unfixable < 1428878606 635776 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1428878610 242538 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can set EOF as -1 (255) but then it fails on other binary data < 1428878616 103298 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1428878618 935809 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1428878624 309673 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purrfect \o/ < 1428878624 433898 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                | < 1428878624 434876 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69               /< < 1428878644 576965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purrfect because it runs cat, right? < 1428878656 416460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that wasn't your joke because it's a good one and I want to be the one to make it. < 1428878661 327049 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purrfect because it runs +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>+++++[-<.>>[]<] < 1428878673 99155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not look like a cat. I doubt it purrs. < 1428878679 49458 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :shush :P < 1428878702 866280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't appreciate my jokes. < 1428878718 458936 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1428878756 265040 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I think you should probably try LostKng.b, it's the standard stress test for brainfuck stuff. < 1428878769 105129 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu QUIT :Quit: That's what she said < 1428878770 839380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : izabera: everyone picking on you :P <-- the bastards! < 1428878775 880782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does LostKng actually use wrapping? < 1428878779 492972 :llue!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1428878794 467432 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you link these? < 1428878808 183230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :" izabera: I think you should probably try LostKng.b, it's the standard stress test for brainfuck stuff. -!- llue [~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu] has quit [Quit: That's what she said]" she made recommendations as to what brainfuck programs to try, I guess < 1428878826 619719 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: https://github.com/graue/esofiles/tree/master/brainfuck/src < 1428878831 834752 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1428878832 681819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that doesn't have lostkng < 1428878843 973315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://web.archive.org/web/20111031121638/http://jonripley.com/i-fiction/games/LostKingdomBF.html for that. < 1428878853 934193 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the other archive is quite nice too. < 1428878854 228259 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rdebath/LostKingdom/gh-pages/LostKng.b < 1428878856 862106 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1428878857 39279 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that something that takes a while? < 1428878863 828126 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause my interpreter is _slow_ < 1428878868 706260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LostKng.b shouldn't be too slow < 1428878873 156105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mandelbrot.b is < 1428878880 438744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also pretty! < 1428878881 37176 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a biggish program, though. < 1428878884 467347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two megabytes or so. < 1428878901 442764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It wasn't written by hand.) < 1428879369 394671 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1428879550 397533 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this slow? https://raw.githubusercontent.com/graue/esofiles/master/brainfuck/src/rot13.b < 1428879565 760374 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time echo xyz | ./bf rot13.b < 1428879567 314494 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :klm < 1428879569 246636 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :real: 0m16.023s, user: 0m15.983s, sys: 0m0.013s < 1428879573 139337 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 16s < 1428879575 278394 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1428879963 906170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 seconds to rot-13 one line? < 1428879964 425352 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1428879968 513356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know bash was THAT slow < 1428879986 413878 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rot13ing only 4 characters XD < 1428879988 106898 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be faster if you compiled to bash and then evalled it < 1428880034 426530 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it works u_u < 1428880126 778522 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a sincere question! < 1428880182 323762 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1428880209 968164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't know how bash's interpretation works < 1428880217 108076 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do any kind of pre-parsing at all? < 1428880228 837891 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1428880292 381432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, does bash parse functions into an AST? < 1428880312 943681 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it store them as strings/lists of tokens and parse/execute them token by token every time you execute a function < 1428880337 880840 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's parsed when it's read < 1428880338 475624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it parses into an actual AST or bytecode data structure that can be interpreted more efficiently then I guess compile-and-eval would be faster < 1428880361 623527 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you basically can't use aliases in functions < 1428880374 378785 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh interesting < 1428880387 527180 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use the aliases you had at the time of parsing, or? < 1428880388 497086 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliases are expanded when the definition is read, not when it's called < 1428880393 187457 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1428880394 770948 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth-y < 1428880407 916121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know too much about this horrible language :P < 1428880420 572544 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok-ish < 1428880459 725543 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd rather have a faster interpreter but heh < 1428880464 18795 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean bash's interpreter < 1428880473 314300 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my bf interpreter :P < 1428880512 178421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash JIT < 1428880548 916066 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are errors in the parser... < 1428880564 794762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kidding, those errors get CVEs :p < 1428880577 657267 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only those onese < 1428880594 47794 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean sure, shellshock got famous but there are other errors < 1428880639 980801 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, ${var[0] i basically can write whatever i want here and bash will never complain} < 1428880735 117401 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%(%H:%M)" < 1428880735 740041 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: printf: warning: `.': invalid time format specification \ bash: line 0: printf: `H': invalid format character \ %( < 1428880744 872524 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%(%H:%M)T" < 1428880745 956086 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:00 < 1428880756 409627 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` printf "%(%H:%M and now let's escape a left parentheses \) )T" < 1428880757 748898 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: line 0: printf: warning: ` ': invalid time format specification \ bash: line 0: printf: `H': invalid format character \ %( < 1428880786 15639 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one shouldn't produce an error but bash basically shuts its brain in %()T < 1428880791 731745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1428880897 168851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's no spec other than bash itself, right < 1428880901 436401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess anything it does is okay by definition < 1428880911 228018 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are specs for posix sh < 1428880947 475641 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash does a good job about those :) < 1428880968 410851 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad posix sh sucks < 1428880991 706492 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just throw a link in here for you to star <.< https://github.com/izabera/bf < 1428881134 645023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't logged into github in, like, years. < 1428881140 848955 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1428881140 906946 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1428881209 964481 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even write a bf interpreter in pure posix sh? < 1428881214 592190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :without anything that can be a non-builtin < 1428881237 487529 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :posix sh has no arrays other than the positional parameters < 1428881247 774462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could store the tape in a string if you could mangle the format enough, I guess? < 1428881259 440930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use positional parameters. there's probably some rather low guaranteed limit on those though < 1428881304 62200 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing a line character by character is painful... < 1428881342 467093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nobody said it would be easy >_> < 1428881357 728482 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero < 1428881387 277220 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does your ] jump back to the [ or the instruction after the [? < 1428881401 53137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the former, then I guess it'd be wasting time looking for the ] every iteration? and that could explain why rot13 was so slow < 1428881436 894555 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o lemme try < 1428881452 316809 :variable!~variable@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1428881460 516748 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no <.< < 1428881469 547404 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm already jumping after the [ :( < 1428881542 961054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1428881548 413918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose bash has a profiler :p < 1428881561 287052 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a "debugger" < 1428881575 975481 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :no profilers yet i'm afraid < 1428881614 918679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: your interpreter doesn't do - on 0 -> 255 < 1428881617 52619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(underflow wraparound) < 1428881618 750021 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is common < 1428881645 384129 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1428881647 412690 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1428881652 750418 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1428881653 952319 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1428881655 572600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay but it doesn't support -- on 0 < 1428881655 698469 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1428881660 347307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's probably easiesr to store the cells pre-moduloed; I think your way will also break once you exceed bash's numerical limts?) < 1428881672 813198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in just do x = (x +- 1) % 256 for both) < 1428881723 633448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*easier < 1428881736 611898 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that $(( -1 % 256 )) == -1 < 1428881738 216247 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1428881750 137234 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll just add 256 before the modulus < 1428881783 494835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, yeah, that's annoying < 1428881788 705500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also condition on 0 and 255 which might be easier < 1428881862 530916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit that ${INTEGERCELLS-% 256} is cute though < 1428881870 777134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTEGERCELLS="* 2" ... < 1428881886 676262 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :# set it to an empty value if it's set to avoid messing with the math expansion < 1428881886 917373 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-1-14-66.dyn.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1428881888 254170 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [[ $INTEGERCELLS ]]; then INTEGERCELLS= ; fi < 1428881894 871025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cheating :p < 1428881900 961250 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cheating XD < 1428881904 671151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you want an extensible program?? < 1428881917 124576 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that way XD < 1428881922 877148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use INTEGERCELLS to implement, like, boolfuck :P < 1428881934 381567 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is boolfuck < 1428881945 276080 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like brainfuck with a tape of bools < 1428881952 652200 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1428881959 605028 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "the obvious thing", modulo IO being a bit of a fuss since it's bitwise < 1428881960 636398 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't sound too useful < 1428881966 96262 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and - get merged into a flip operation < 1428882310 507278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: if you do +, say, 2^32 + 1 times, does it still work with your implementation? < 1428882313 637555 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like does bash have bignums < 1428882318 380908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not then it could break with long-running programs < 1428882330 40503 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has 64 bit ints < 1428882337 181941 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably fine then :p