00:07:05 * boily pokes Lymia in the connection 00:08:09 boilymia 00:09:03 along with boilognese, boilamia. 00:09:41 what about some boilabaisse 00:10:31 alexandrelrod 00:11:06 what's an elrod? 00:11:58 relrod: You may be more qualified to answer that than I am. 00:13:46 http://www.globalsino.com/EM/image1/3911.gif ??? 00:14:40 ah that must be the machine cern used to find the force 00:17:17 * relrod looks up 00:18:13 what did I do :( 00:18:19 AH! 00:18:33 somebody named relrod. 00:18:51 * relrod puts bucket over head. Where?! 00:18:53 relrod: Apparently you were instrumental in finding the force? 00:18:56 relrod: uhm. hello? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 00:20:00 * oerjan checks relrod's lilaxity, just because. 00:20:20 boily: 39.111748, -76.775635; -4 lbs. 00:21:00 -!- oren has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:21:02 * oerjan determines it to be zero on account of the redhat cloak. 00:21:42 stalker ;) 00:22:04 You never answered the question about elrods. 00:22:42 shachaf: what's a shachaf? :P 00:22:52 a seagull hth 00:22:53 relrod: i am not a stalker and i _totally_ didn't find your picture on github. 00:23:12 oerjan: onoes 00:23:37 oerjan: did you find my picture on github twh 00:23:44 shachaf can confirm i'm not a stalker hth 00:23:55 shachaf: you've linked your picture many times 00:24:27 i,i http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13786158/portraits/shachaf.png 00:25:35 as proof that i'm not a stalker, this is totally the first time i check out shachaf's github account. unless i've forgotten. 00:26:10 oerjan: it's called "cloning" in the git nomenclature hth 00:27:55 i think we are confusing denotations again. 00:28:05 oerjan: strangely, you're not in the Wisdom Conspirators. 00:28:06 relrod: so how 'bout that bug #9858 00:28:27 i don't think i've ever used git directly, anyway. 00:28:45 wait, relrod is related to #9858? 00:29:09 what's 9858? 00:29:52 shachaf: i am tending to believe that that typeRep confusion you found is harmless, because there is no function to cast without comparing actual kinds or embedding in another type. 00:30:11 which i assume was your and int-e's conclusion too 00:30:13 That's what I'm tending to believe also. 00:30:31 But not to the point where I'd trust an unsandboxed -XSafe GHC. 00:30:51 i think we stopped doing that anyway. 00:30:58 pretty sure int-e did. 00:31:13 -!- Lymia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:31:43 -!- GibVent has changed nick to GeekDude. 00:31:55 Sure. 00:32:22 of course all it would take is one function which _doesn't_ compare kinds, but there seems to be little reason to define one. except perhaps to fake kind equality testing... 00:32:49 There could be some serialization thing. 00:32:56 I don't know. 00:32:56 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:36:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: building NetHack 4 on Windows). 00:36:34 boily: wait what's the Wisdom Conspirators 00:37:04 oerjan: do you really expect an answer, given that you're not among them 00:37:42 oerjan: I can't remember if you didn't not have a github account. if you don't, could you please point me to it? 00:37:45 boily: http://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 the bug we found that helped hold up ghc release for a month. and which shachaf just discovered hasn't been entirely fixed 00:37:59 oooooh. that. 00:38:09 (actually we didn't find it, just probed the consequences) 00:38:17 well, i found it 00:38:21 but someone else found it first 00:38:35 boily: i have no github account, i'm pretty sure i just said i haven't used git 00:39:47 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7258 00:39:49 therefore the reason for you perfectly logical prolonged absence from the List. 00:39:54 spj is so jolly 00:40:35 bah i didn't get goldfire's reply on Cc: 00:41:17 I wonder whether there are any other places where this * ~ Constraint thing is exposed? 00:44:46 [wiki] [[User:SuperJedi224]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42267&oldid=42229 * SuperJedi224 * (+56) 00:45:07 i don't think that's what's happening, just made a comment 00:45:26 it's true but not really relevant to constructing TypeReps 00:45:52 oerjan: It's pretty strange that () :: Constraint's TypeRep is "ghc-prim GHC.Tuple ()" 00:47:27 they totally need to expose those Constraint entities somewhere people can get them even unapplied, like (,) 00:47:37 Yes. 00:47:44 shachaf: what about #9858 :( it's not my fault, I swear 00:47:46 * relrod clicks link 00:48:07 -!- variable has joined. 00:48:15 relrod: I didn't think any of these things were your fault, but you seem very defensive for some reason. 00:48:24 Maybe it is your fault? 00:48:48 shachaf: you act like I know enough about GHC internals to be able to have an impact here. :P 00:49:01 * relrod really, really should learn more about how GHC actually works :/ 00:49:02 -!- Lymee has joined. 00:49:04 I thought you were all about GHC? 00:49:29 shachaf: Naw. I do Haskell Infra stuff, but haven't gotten into GHC stuff yet. 00:49:30 I want to 00:49:30 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:50:07 Well, I don't know how GHC works either. 00:51:08 shachaf: Lately I'm on a type theory thing. Trying to work with people in the math department at my school and have them let me do an Individual Study in type theory. 00:51:27 Because I think it would be a lot of fun 00:51:40 And I'm going to learn it anyway, so why not get some credit for it ;) 00:59:55 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:01:20 `? relrod 01:01:36 relrod? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:02:34 `learn A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force. 01:02:44 Learned 'relrod': A relrod is a machine useful for finding the Force. 01:05:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:06:20 -!- mihow has joined. 01:06:40 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 01:16:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: more Windows builds). 01:26:27 -!- Lymee has changed nick to Lymia. 01:30:05 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NAUTICAL CHICKEN). 01:31:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:37:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:40:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 01:40:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:48:55 -!- Lymee has joined. 01:49:00 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:52:20 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 02:01:23 -!- Decim has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:07:05 shachaf: you've been til'ed http://www.reddit.com/r/haskelltil/comments/313n72/the_numdecimals_extension_lets_you_write_integers/ 02:07:37 oerjan: wasn't that dmwit 02:08:04 oh wait was it the binary one you did? 02:08:18 I guess I did implement this. 02:08:22 dmwit was the one who asked for it. 02:08:56 also what's this subreddit thing 02:09:41 i guess if you actually log in following the small ones isn't so painful 02:13:20 it was advertised on haskell recently 02:13:34 it's only my second smallest 02:13:41 (guess which is the smallest one) 02:13:59 also it's the large ones which are painful hth 02:14:30 * oerjan doesn't actually use the front page, which means it would probably be painful if he had more subreddits than fit in the menu 02:14:47 tdnhaa 02:14:54 which part 02:15:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:15:43 i don't want to use the front page because then the largest ones that i almost never visit would swamp the small ones which i follow closely. i think. 02:16:22 the part preceding the hth 02:16:42 another thing that isn't helpful is 35s roundtrip latency to 8.8.8.8 02:16:50 OKAY 02:17:10 Anyway, the painful part is having a lot of them, since then I have to click them all. 02:17:19 If everyone puts everything in the main one then there's no problem. 02:17:24 (Except that the main one is getting noisy.) 02:17:32 (has gotten) 02:17:47 you can make subreddit combinations, i hear 02:18:00 That's true. /r/haskell+haskelltil 02:18:28 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 02:18:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:18:53 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 02:18:57 (the smallest one is /r/esolangs hth) 02:19:23 * copumpkin rubs eyes 02:19:25 holy shit 02:19:34 shachaf is tweeting, stop the press 02:19:35 copumpkin: whoa whoa whoa 02:19:38 don't be like that :'( 02:19:43 copumpkin: hm? 02:19:43 i was hoping to keep it quiet 02:19:48 oh 02:19:50 I mean 02:19:56 fahcahs is not tweeting 02:20:01 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:20:03 err, I flipped it too much 02:20:09 anyway, disregard everything 02:20:28 twitter used to email me from n-funpuns=...@postmaster.twitter.com 02:21:50 copumpkin: Do you know how Twitter lists work? 02:22:05 they forgot about that feature 02:22:05 Such a mess. 02:22:15 I use that feature instead of the "follow" feature. 02:22:17 they added it years ago and have been progressively de-emphasizing 02:22:20 So my followee list isn't public. 02:22:26 It only sort of works. 02:22:52 oh interesting 02:23:12 you actively mark it as not public? or just have 0 and it shows up that way? 02:23:30 It's separate from the following feature. 02:23:44 I made a list and I look at that list instead of the front page. 02:24:03 ah 02:24:20 But I want to follow conversations including ones where people reply to me, and it doesn't seem to work very well for that. I managed to add myself to the list but it still doesn't do it. 02:24:24 Oh well. 02:42:03 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 02:49:04 ais523: it was inevitable that someone would reinvent feather in haskell https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2015-April/118905.html 02:49:55 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 02:49:58 it is clearly a terrible idea for me to follow this link 02:50:00 * ais523 does so anyway 02:50:23 *MWAHAHAi mean, not at all. 02:50:38 "Bearing in mind our model of a space-time continuum of hackage dependences, the solution emerges — enforce immutability, but allow retroactive mutation." oh good, they came to the same conclusion as me without necessarily being able to implement it 02:50:46 `? feather 02:50:47 feather? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:51:24 `? ais523 02:51:25 Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. 02:51:38 wait, how does shachaf not know what feather is 02:51:48 and why isn't it in the wisdomdb, I thought it was 02:51:57 i think he's just checking what current wisdom on feather is 02:52:06 I've seen it mentioned but I don't remember if I ever knew what it is. 02:52:12 Unless it's a thing where the joke is that no one says what it is. 02:52:27 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather 02:52:34 the joke /became/ that but it wasn't the original joke 02:54:03 the esolangs page is quite a good description 02:54:10 both the idea of the language itself, and why everyone avoids talking about it 02:55:06 Speaking of which, Broken Age Act 2 will come out this month. 02:56:05 gah, now I'm on the verge of thinking about Feather again 02:56:09 `quote Feather 02:56:10 865) -!- ais523 has parted #esoteric ("someone is going to mention Feather, I know it"). \ 866) i don't even know anything about feather and i'm getting sick of the time travel jokes \ 896) in Smalltalk, as in Feather, in order to do I/O, you must first create the universe ais523, it seems quite capable of I/O... GUI is a fo 02:56:24 Programming language based on the principles of metacybernetics. 02:56:28 Who are the time travelers? 02:58:53 in Feather, everything is immutable, but you can retroactively change what an object was when it was created 02:59:23 or to think about it another way, you have a "clone" operation, and the result of the clone has a method that lets you retroactively change what the clone function returned 02:59:30 * function looks at ais523 02:59:37 this much is easy to implement, it's basically a wrapper around call/cc 02:59:49 then things start getting confusing very quickly 02:59:58 -!- function has left ("/dev/null is full"). 03:00:01 -!- function has joined. 03:01:35 `` echo -ne '#!/bin/sh\ngrep -P -i -n "$1" quotes | cut -d ':' -f 1 | xargs\n' > bin/quotenums; chmod +x bin/quotenums 03:01:38 No output. 03:01:39 `quotenums feather 03:01:40 865 866 896 897 03:01:57 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 03:16:15 -!- idris-bot has joined. 03:22:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Retroactively going to bed 1 1/2 hour ago, maybe.). 03:51:10 -!- GeekDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:00:05 -!- function has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 04:00:21 -!- variable has joined. 04:03:59 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:13:55 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:15:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:19:45 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:25:33 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 04:27:39 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:41:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 04:42:18 -!- ais523 has quit. 04:42:52 -!- g2watson has joined. 04:43:21 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 04:44:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:45:17 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Idunnowhy9000 * New user account 04:48:12 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:56:42 -!- variable has joined. 05:03:23 -!- v4s has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:03:34 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 05:04:24 My laptop currently is in pieces in front of me, as i try to fix whatever's wrong without making things worse 05:04:45 I think im failing but no way to know until i put it back together 05:04:53 -!- v4s has joined. 05:12:05 -!- Lymee has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:16:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 05:16:31 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 06:00:04 Does this thick black cable look damaged? http://i.imgur.com/ZqNmL4t.jpg 06:07:30 -!- ais523 has quit. 06:07:43 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:12:26 -!- infinitymaster has joined. 06:18:36 folks 06:19:13 !zjoust Iron_Will_and_a_Clear_Conscience >(-)*16>(+)*15(>+>-)*3>([(-)*15[+]]>)*21 06:19:14 infinitymaster.Iron_Will_and_a_Clear_Conscience: points -3.45, score 16.57, rank 39/47 (-4) 06:19:40 gross 06:21:43 -!- infinitymaster has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:39:44 Maybe you need to take a step back here 06:40:05 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:47:44 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:16:59 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:18:26 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 07:31:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:34:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:35:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:36:26 -!- zadock has joined. 07:39:08 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:39:22 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 07:46:59 -!- f|`-`|f has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:48:23 -!- f|`-`|f has joined. 07:48:24 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:48:39 -!- SgeoPhone has joined. 07:55:33 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:07:38 http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/04/02/0227211/uk-forces-microsoft-to-adopt-open-document-standards 08:07:41 neat 08:36:37 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:38:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:39:12 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 08:42:47 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:00:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:00:13 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:03:18 Is there a browser that runs in x11? 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ZZZzzz…). 12:43:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:01:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:11:21 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:11:59 you know how ia64 (also known as itanium) is a different cpu architecture from x86_64 (also known as intel-64 or amd64 or x64)? these names will confuse some more newbies in the future. 13:13:04 -!- SgeoPhone has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 13:13:15 so anyway, now we have another similar set of confusing architecture names: http://hurrdurr.org hosts the Hurr Durr kernels, also know as Linux, not to be confused with Hurd which is a different kernel. 13:13:24 :k Dict 13:13:26 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Dict’ 13:14:00 aren't you about a day late 13:14:10 yes, I am 13:14:15 but hurrdurr.org is still alive 13:14:20 but... but... x86 has more bits than x64 13:14:24 64 only has 64 13:14:28 x86 has way more 13:14:28 it's just that kernel.org no longer redirects to it 13:14:33 namely 86 bits 13:15:42 Which lets me count to 77371252455336267181195263 13:17:34 mroman: yes, there's a quote about that in http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1558 13:18:59 oh interesting, in 7.8 the () constraint wasn't Typeable, it seems. 13:19:11 [ <:2x^86 13:19:12 b_jonas: 77371252455336267181195263 13:19:20 and you cannot derive it, of course 13:20:15 put it in a Maybe then 13:20:21 or add a dummy constraint 13:20:26 oh damn i cannot define Dict in lambdabot because int-e refuses to import Constraint 13:21:20 b_jonas: not useable for what i'm actually trying to do, which is to expand shachaf's discovery from yesterday to an exploit 13:21:54 oh 13:22:14 isn't that why int-e refuses to import Constraint though? 13:22:19 unfortunately i'm too lazy to install 7.10 until the Haskell Platform gets out 13:22:35 b_jonas: no. 13:23:02 he gave up trying to get around our previous exploits with that kind of restrictions, and made a proper sandbox. 13:23:32 um sure, and? 13:23:36 the reason he refuses is that Constraint is in GHC.Exts, an Unsafe module. 13:23:45 he might want to use both for security 13:23:49 which means he'll have to jump through some hoops. 13:24:02 b_jonas: but Constraint is _supposed_ to be safe. 13:24:32 sure, but int-e suspects it's not safe even if it's supposed to be 13:24:57 b_jonas: i don't think he suspects Constraint, in itself, is safe. he'd have to ban _everything_. 13:25:02 *unsafe 13:25:31 except, of course, in this case i need it to test whether there is an exploit. 13:26:06 i tried to use 7.8 as far as possible to test, but it doesn't even _have_ the Typeable instances i need 13:26:48 hmm 13:27:01 isn't there a different online haskell interpreter somewhere? 13:29:20 :t Proxy :: (Proxy (() => ())) 13:29:21 Proxy () 13:29:24 hmph 13:29:39 it is quite possible it isn't possible to actually construct the () => () type 13:30:31 oh hm it's probably not considered monomorphic. 13:30:51 in which case it won't show up as Typeable 13:31:13 you can make an argument with the type, but not define instances for it. 13:31:29 shachaf: ^ 13:31:52 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:33:35 but _if_ you could, and if goldfire's ghc trac comment about * and Constraint being identified in core is actually relevant and creeps into the form of Typeable instances... 13:33:46 oerjan, isn't the constraint () trivially true? 13:34:22 Taneb: well sure. i was trying to construct (() => ()) as an actual _type_ with a Typeable instances distinct from () 13:34:40 in order to check whether it had the same TypeRep as () -> () 13:35:08 which could have allowed an exploit. 13:35:08 :t Proxy :: Proxy (Eq Int => Int) 13:35:10 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: Eq Int => Int 13:35:10 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 13:35:10 In an expression type signature: Proxy (Eq Int => Int) 13:35:20 hm 13:36:40 Taneb: it cannot contain actual class names or anything _officially_ polykinded. 13:37:16 () :: * and () :: Constraint have the same TypeRep, but the problem is constructing something with the _same_ kind 13:37:25 :t Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => Int) 13:37:26 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: ((), ()) => Int 13:37:26 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 13:37:26 In an expression type signature: Proxy (((), ()) => Int) 13:37:47 you cannot define any helper types, they would be polykinded. 13:38:54 but => is the same as -> in core, which might or might not be relevant. i'm starting to think it isn't, because => doesn't construct a monomorphic type. 13:39:39 so has no chance of ending up in a Typeable argument. 13:42:09 oh hm maybe it does. in 7.8 with ImpredicativeTypes enabled, typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) 13:42:22 gets close enough to complain about a lacking instance. 13:42:44 (having just () got removed) 13:43:24 * Taneb helped 13:44:14 i just need 7.10 without stupid restrictions to test this :( 13:44:53 MinGHC or not MinGHC, that's the question. 13:44:56 tanebvented is the word. 13:45:39 mroman, this was just a tanebhelped 13:46:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:47:02 gah 11 minutes to download something i only want to test something 13:47:15 nope. 13:48:27 * oerjan is not patient 13:49:12 so basically, i need a ghc 7.10 with ImpredicativeTypes and Data.Typeable enabled. 13:49:44 and that's just to test if the TypeReps _are_ the same, which they most likely aren't. 13:50:27 why isn't shachaf awake :( 13:50:42 (pesky americans) 13:52:20 @ask shachaf Can you test (you need ImpredicativeTypes) whether typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 13:52:20 Consider it noted. 13:53:09 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 13:53:51 > typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 13:53:52 ((),()) -> () 13:54:57 Taneb: oh and thanks 13:55:03 :) 13:58:46 huh safe haskell still allows some FFI 13:59:03 safeFFI 13:59:24 under the "everything's still allowed in IO" principle 14:00:13 nothing about ImpredicativeTypes, anyway. 14:02:55 @ask int-e Why aren't ImpredicativeTypes enabled, anyway. 14:02:55 Consider it noted. 14:04:06 int-e seems conspicuously absent. maybe germans have easter holidays too 14:04:59 Taneb: hey, you don't happen to have GHC 7.10 by any chance 14:05:09 oerjan, just got it installed somewhere 14:05:28 then you could test what i asked shachaf 14:06:42 if it compiles but they _aren't_ equal, the printout of typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) would also be interesting. 14:07:35 They are not equal 14:08:01 > typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) 14:08:02 Proxy * (() -> () -> ()) 14:08:03 Illegal polymorphic or qualified type: ((), ()) ⇒ () 14:08:03 Perhaps you intended to use ImpredicativeTypes 14:08:03 In an expression type signature: Proxy (((), ()) ⇒ ()) 14:08:08 Sorry, lambdabot 14:08:45 > typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 14:08:45 Proxy * (((),()) -> ()) 14:08:47 Proxy * (((),()) -> ()) 14:08:51 Again, sorry lambdabot 14:09:09 oerjan, is that right? 14:09:55 @type typeOf 14:09:56 Typeable a => a -> TypeRep 14:10:06 > typeOf (5,()) 14:10:08 (Integer,()) 14:10:24 > typeOf (5,()) == typeOf (3,()) 14:10:25 True 14:10:30 Taneb: @tell shachaf I cannot get either lambdabot or 7.8 to accept the re 14:10:38 wat 14:11:09 Taneb: @ask shachaf Can you test (you need ImpredicativeTypes) whether typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 14:11:15 @type typeRe 14:11:16 Not in scope: ‘typeRe’ 14:11:16 Perhaps you meant one of these: 14:11:16 ‘typeRep’ (imported from Data.Typeable), 14:11:16 @type typeRep 14:11:17 forall (k :: BOX) (proxy :: k -> *) (a :: k). Typeable a => proxy a -> TypeRep 14:11:22 oerjan, yeah, they are different 14:11:28 The constraints are uncurried 14:11:47 Which means that 14:11:50 what does typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) look like 14:11:51 Prelude Data.Typeable> typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeOf (Proxy :: Proxy (() -> () -> ())) 14:11:51 True 14:11:52 @typeRep (5,()) 14:11:52 Unknown command, try @list 14:11:57 > typeRep (5,()) 14:11:58 () 14:12:46 Taneb: what is the result of typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) 14:13:05 Proxy * (() -> () -> ()) 14:13:22 "() -> () -> ()" rather 14:13:57 oh. 14:14:03 oldl maybe 14:14:05 Oops 14:14:12 in that case, please compare with actual () -> () -> () 14:14:46 ooh, that does look promising 14:14:47 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 14:14:52 oerjan, True 14:14:58 yay! 14:16:47 -!- hailer has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:19:11 oh duh i failed to read some of your lines :P 14:19:20 Taneb: could you try out http://oerjan.nvg.org/haskell/TypeableExploits/TFs5.hs ? 14:20:19 Illegal tuple constraint: () (Use ConstraintKinds to permit this) 14:21:00 oerjan, with ConstraintKinds it compiles 14:22:24 And uc (100 :: Int) :: Char gets 'd' 14:22:44 ooh 14:25:01 i fixed that, including your and shachaf's real name 14:25:06 to the ghc trac -> 14:26:30 :) 14:26:43 oh, could you add Safe too, on principle. 14:27:20 Still works 14:27:27 "good" 14:27:55 There's a single warning (duplicate constraint ()) but other than that it's all good 14:28:56 oerjan: no holidays, just a combination of getting up late and staying away from the computer 14:29:38 Nobody likes ImpredicativeTypes 14:30:41 you think :) 14:30:48 And I'm in Austria, even tomorrow is not a proper holiday... 14:31:16 (i.e. Good Fridat) But Easter Monday is. 14:31:31 ah. 14:31:47 norway has the highest density of easter holidays in the world, i think 14:32:07 (today, tomorrow, Easter and Easter Monday) 14:32:09 . o O ( Dear empty review form, please inspire me... [a different one from yesterday] ) 14:32:38 Easter Sunday is also a holiday, but a rather useless one. 14:33:03 oerjan: does it not have april 1 as a holiday? 14:33:20 what kind of holiday would that be? 14:34:05 a celebration of creativity that isn't necessarily directed towards a useful goal 14:34:37 int-e: It's not? 14:34:41 Karfreitag is usually a thing. 14:34:52 oerjan, do send me a link to the ticket when it is available 14:35:03 I'm going to work anyway 14:35:10 but it's a holiday around here. 14:35:21 mroman: In Austria, it's only a holiday for Protestants. Everybody else has to work. 14:35:52 Wait... catholics have to attend work, protestants get a holiday? 14:35:54 (Not sure whether it depends on the state, I'm in Tyrol...) 14:35:56 That's "lawful"? 14:36:08 Oh. I get that it depends on the state, yeah. 14:36:13 mroman: there are catholic-only holidays as well 14:36:16 Switzerland has different holidays in different states as well. 14:36:28 Depending on what religion was dominant some years ago I guess. 14:36:29 mroman: no it really depends on the individual 14:36:33 int-e: Oh. 14:36:34 Ok. 14:36:41 That's certainly... insteresting. 14:36:51 (Which I find rather strange. But oh well... and I'm neither catholic nor protestant.) 14:37:06 Well... 14:37:16 I think this holiday system sucks anyway 14:37:36 I think this work system... never mind. 14:37:39 Instead of having religious holidays you might as well say "well.. you have 5 days each year you can take off for whatever religious purpose it serves you" 14:37:50 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:38:08 which would be the same thing as giving you an extra week 14:38:08 ais523: by holiday i mean a day that most people don't need to work hth 14:38:11 Which I would prefer. 14:38:25 on the other hand 14:38:43 with these "free extra holidays" you could add some restrictions like "not more than two consecutive days" 14:38:59 Taneb: i just added it to the already existing one https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:76 14:39:01 so you have 5 extra days, but can't use them as a whole week at once. 14:39:23 mroman: your "you have N days and can spend them whenever you want" is very common as a method of allocating time off in companies nowadays 14:39:30 mroman: Then again the christian population pays dearly for those extra free days (there are additional taxes). 14:39:36 ais523: It is :) 14:39:51 sometimes requiring very slow days like Christmas Day to be one of those days 14:39:51 but then you have additional days off because of some religious background. 14:40:17 int-e: what kind of taxes? 14:40:19 but that's mostly because it's a huge secular holiday where basically nobody works, with the Christian holiday on the same date being observed by a much smaller number of people 14:40:20 church taxes? 14:40:25 well, church taxes. 14:40:32 but these don't go to the state 14:40:35 they go to the churches. 14:40:45 mroman: but they still reduce the people's paycheck 14:40:56 oerjan, :) 14:41:04 int-e: what if you're an atheiest? 14:41:10 do you get holidays on christmas? 14:41:19 mroman: There is this theory of division of church and state, well, this is how it looks in practice ;) 14:41:27 yeah 14:41:35 mroman: it's hard to argue that there isn't an atheist holiday on Christmas; just statistically, such a holiday exists 14:41:55 interestingly, the UK doesn't officially have a separation of church and state 14:41:57 mroman: Yes, I do. There's only one or two days where the faith is actually taken into account. 14:41:59 and yet the two overlap pretty rarely 14:42:39 mroman: To be fair, despite the name, Christmas is really a capitalist holiday. (Ironically it was a holiday in communist countries as well.) 14:42:57 Well... 14:43:10 I don't fully agree with that 14:43:17 like valentine's day 14:43:24 people develop expectations from it 14:43:33 so you can't really blame it only on shops and malls and the like 14:43:46 people's expectations are to blame 14:44:04 I have no expectation whatsover for Valentine's day. 14:44:09 Yeah me neither. 14:44:19 wow. 14:44:25 expectations, whatsoever. 14:44:27 mainly because there's no relationship on the horizon and there never was. 14:44:39 but... 14:44:42 now I'm feeling bad for not showing up to #esoteric with flowers 14:45:05 (the "wow" came from the realization that "whatsover" almost looks like a real word) 14:45:25 I only buy christmas gifts for closest of family members 14:45:28 brothers and parents 14:45:30 that's it. 14:45:54 and usually you'll tell each other what presents you would have a use for 14:45:55 ais523: Cherry blossom is almost over, too. 14:46:00 which... makes the whole point rather moot 14:46:01 but 14:46:11 what do I know about social things. 14:46:47 anyway, bbl 14:48:08 ^flowers 14:48:10 !flowers 14:48:13 )flowers 14:48:14 (flowers 14:48:15 hm 14:48:18 no flower bot 14:48:20 `flowers 14:48:39 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: flowers: not found 14:49:12 @}~}~~~ 14:49:12 Unknown command, try @list 14:49:34 damn bot prefixes :( 14:49:52 It would make more sense for bots to have 14:49:55 instead of 14:49:56 because 14:50:00 nobody starts a sentence with a space 14:50:04 but 14:50:13 those damn bot writers are just too dumb to notice that 14:50:35 mroman: I think it's precisely /because/ nobody starts a sentence with aa space 14:50:46 people wouldn't be able to use the bot 14:50:50 of course 14:50:52 @help 14:50:53 see 14:50:55 no proble 14:50:56 m 14:51:36 (hi) 14:51:46 ( <:i9 14:51:46 (input):1:1: error: expected: ":", 14:51:46 dependent type signature, 14:51:46 end of input 14:51:46 <:i9 14:51:46 ^ 14:52:00 ( (input):1:1: error: expected: ":", 14:52:00 dependent type signature, 14:52:00 end of input 14:52:00 14:52:00 ^ 14:52:03 hm 14:52:42 [ i9 14:52:42 mroman: |value error: i9 14:52:47 [ mroman: < i9 14:52:53 [ <:i9 14:52:54 mroman: <: i9 14:53:00 [ <9 14:53:00 mroman: ┌─┐ 14:53:00 mroman: │9│ 14:53:00 mroman: └─┘ 14:53:09 hu 14:53:11 [ <:9 14:53:11 mroman: 8 14:56:40 oh yeah 14:56:42 that reminds me 14:56:49 I have to check if I still have the source for octofrogscript 14:57:34 probably not 14:58:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:01:47 I'm having a new language in mind that engrains code conventions in its syntax 15:01:53 such as indentation 15:02:12 python? 15:02:19 a bit more restricted than python 15:02:34 In python you can still choose between 2 spaces, 4 spaces, 1 tab or 99 spaces 15:02:39 that's too much freedom! 15:02:44 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:02:55 also I think if(9 <0) is legal 15:02:58 Go? 15:02:59 as well as if (9<0) 15:03:19 or if (9 < 0) 15:03:33 but that might be too restrictive 15:03:35 I don't know 15:03:47 so basically this is $EXISTING_LANGUAGE except that your code must be byte-identical to the output produced by a pretty printer on its parse tree? 15:03:55 well! 15:03:59 mroman: if(9 <0) should be legal, but do something completely different from if(9<0) 15:04:05 And you can write using different syntaxes I guess 15:04:15 delphi style, lisp style, c style 15:04:16 :D 15:04:31 myname: have you seen Ursala? 15:04:39 Ursala rocks 15:04:44 not even joking, whitespace around operators changes their meaning there 15:05:00 wait 15:05:03 :D 15:05:07 a while back I learned enough Ursala to get an appreciation of how it works and just how twisted the design is 15:05:09 ais523: i have not 15:05:10 you actually looked at Ursala a bit more serious? 15:05:12 although not enough to actually program in it 15:05:23 drop me a link 15:05:24 oh 15:05:36 bbl 15:05:42 I can normally mentally parse programs, but not figure out what they mean (or precedence/associativity; those aren't transitive in ursala) 15:06:29 myname: huh, I can't find it via my normal search engine 15:06:39 maybe it's gone down 15:07:02 yep, I found the URL but it's 404 15:07:05 now trying wayback 15:07:17 ruby some weird whitespace effects, too 15:07:41 what? it has non-transitive precedence? 15:08:35 myname: here you go: http://web.archive.org/web/20110910024105/http://www.basis.netii.net/ursala/manual.pdf 15:08:38 b_jonas: yes! 15:08:58 I was actually reading through the book I learned to write compilers from recently 15:09:14 and it mentions offhand that non-transitive precedence is mathematically possible and the parsing algos work fine on it 15:09:21 why isn't this in our wiki 15:09:36 but that people might want to voluntarily avoid such languages because they might be confusing 15:09:41 IMO, ursala is evidence for this 15:11:56 [wiki] [[Talk:Hexadecimal Stacking Pseudo-Assembly Language]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42268 * Esowiki201529A * (+66) Created page with "这个正确的名字是“十六进制堆栈式伪汇编语言”" 15:12:19 odds of a spambot? 15:12:39 zero 15:12:52 users has plenty of other contributions 15:12:56 may be confuse though 15:13:02 interesting user name 15:13:24 ah right, this is a known problem user: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Esowiki201529A 15:14:28 @tell shachaf Never mind, Taneb helped; see https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:76 15:14:28 Consider it noted. 15:24:08 -!- zadock has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:24:20 ais523: ok 15:25:32 int-e: btw are you also still missing Cc:s on https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858 ? i've received shachaf's last message but nothing later. 15:28:17 yes 15:31:59 oerjan: nice exploit. And yeah, I think deep down () :: Constraint and () :: * should have different names. 15:33:31 (oh and shachaf and Taneb) 15:34:42 as well as (,) and => 15:35:19 btw you know you're excited about something when you're trying to multitask irc'ing and shaving. 15:35:21 is there a (,) on the constraint level? 15:35:40 oerjan: bloddy business? 15:35:44 bloody 15:36:09 Ah maybe you're using one of those extra-safe, buzzing, electric shavers 15:39:32 . o O ( is there a smartphone with built-in shaver yet? ) 15:40:16 There could even be a razor-thin edition... 15:40:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:50:27 int-e: yes the (,) in (Ord a, Num a), say 15:51:07 actually i'm using razor blades. pretty safe, though. although i'm not always entirely free of bleeding. 15:51:31 also, the multitasking still moves between different rooms 15:52:39 i use to use electric but it went *poof* just after i moved here. 15:52:59 as in, there was arcing when it died. 15:53:07 *used 15:53:15 now brushing teeth -> 15:56:41 oh hm there was that automatic currying Taneb noticed, but i'm sure that cannot apply in positive position in data types/families 16:00:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:08:32 or anywhere polymorphic in the constraints 16:17:32 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:20:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:22:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:26:16 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:36:48 ooh, new INTERCAL release 16:36:52 err, C-INTERCAL 16:37:00 esr released it to get the code out there before gitorious died 16:52:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:56:27 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:59:18 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 17:01:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:01:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 17:01:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:05:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:12:17 -!- Xeironis has joined. 17:23:00 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:26:17 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:28:01 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 17:29:49 -!- mihow has joined. 17:33:16 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:35:46 -!- vodkode_ has joined. 17:37:28 oerjan: whoa, I missed the whole thing. 17:37:30 oerjan++ 17:37:43 @messages-lead 17:37:43 oerjan asked 3h 45m 22s ago: Can you test (you need ImpredicativeTypes) whether typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) => ())) == typeRep (Proxy :: Proxy (((),()) -> ())) 17:37:43 oerjan said 2h 23m 14s ago: Never mind, Taneb helped; see https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/9858#comment:76 17:40:52 why isn't oerjan awake :( 17:41:16 . o O ( Why do you tempt me to give a tautological answer? ) 17:43:44 wouldn't the tautological answer there be "because oerjan isn't awake", which doesn't actually answer the question? 17:44:01 ais523: yes. 17:44:34 The temptation arises from the fact that I cannot conceive of a more useful answer than that. 17:44:59 06:52 why isn't shachaf awake :( 17:45:14 shachaf: thanks 17:46:26 lol 17:47:55 look i just woke up 17:48:34 shachaf: FWIW I consider this to be one of my character flaws. So I can't really complain. 17:48:55 Now I'm confused. 17:49:09 "this" being the tendency to give tautological answers. 17:59:18 -!- variable has joined. 18:00:53 why is fungot awake :( 18:00:53 int-e: you got to try that kind of explanation makes it easier 18:01:35 okay, another review done. 18:01:42 clearly, fungot is awake because fungot is awake 18:01:42 ais523: i have complained about the lack of such a function 18:01:52 and apparently doesn't know how to go to sleep 18:02:15 ^sleep 18:07:39 Now as long as nobody mentions fun⁠got by name we can pretend that it worked. 18:10:30 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:18:11 -!- hjulle has joined. 18:22:17 -!- ^v^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:22:42 -!- ^v^v has joined. 18:24:00 oerjan: Makes me wonder whether there are other bugs involving ConstraintKinds that don't need Typeable. E.g. can you write (Show a, Show b) :~: (Show b, Show a) somehow? 18:28:53 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:44:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 18:52:29 -!- nys has joined. 19:00:16 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:02:34 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 19:03:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:04:05 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 19:09:17 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:12:09 -!- mihow has joined. 19:22:12 -!- ^v has joined. 19:22:14 -!- variable has joined. 19:22:18 -!- trout has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:24:44 -!- ^v^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:28:59 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:29:25 -!- variable has joined. 19:45:21 -!- variable has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:03:30 -!- Lymia has joined. 20:33:36 shachaf: regarding unicodesyntax, I'm going to patch my ghc. 20:34:15 (and update #8959 accordingly once it works) 20:34:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:37:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:38:22 -!- variable has joined. 20:44:11 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AnonymousAnomaly * New user account 20:47:49 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:53:34 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 20:59:37 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:08:13 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:08:34 [wiki] [[Gott]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42269 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+143) Gott is an esoteric programming language that uses only for loops. 21:12:46 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:13:29 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:17:44 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42270&oldid=42269 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+826) 21:20:54 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:22:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:24:36 why isn't oerjan awake :( <-- the question assumes facts not in evidence hth 21:24:49 oerjan: so did yours hth 21:25:03 * oerjan was, at that time, probably showering. 21:25:04 -!- mihow has joined. 21:25:16 -!- Xeironis has left ("Konversation terminated!"). 21:25:24 so not completely awake 21:25:41 um i wasn't going either to or from bed 21:25:52 just preparing to leave the house. 21:26:04 It's a bit funny that GHC's normalization is exposed by type equality, so that "(Foo a, Bar a) => a" unifies with "Foo a => Bar a => a" but not with "(Bar a, Foo a) => a" 21:26:28 yeah 21:26:48 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:26:52 basically, they haven't worked too hard on making type inference of constraints be flexible. 21:27:08 (or maybe they have and gave up.) 21:27:42 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:28:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:10 oerjan: whoa, I missed the whole thing. <-- on the bright side, you got credited. 21:28:46 oerjan: to be fair, what sort of person would even do that sort of thing with constraints 21:28:57 edwardk hth 21:29:51 I haven't seen even edwardk make GADTs/type families with arguments that require constraint unification. 21:29:58 in fact, i greatly suspect he'd like it if the outcome of this was to make the (,) :: Constraint -> Constraint -> Constraint etc. entirely separately referencable entities. 21:30:15 Oh, sure, that's a much more reasonable outcome. 21:30:28 Given that you can't even get at that (,) right now. 21:31:26 Anyway, after that's fixed, SafeHaskell is *sure* to be bulletproof! 21:32:14 -!- fractal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:32:48 -!- merdach has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:32:49 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:33:06 -!- merdach has joined. 21:33:56 -!- edirc has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:34:11 indeed! 21:34:42 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:34:50 -!- perrier_ has joined. 21:35:04 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:35:26 -!- dianne_ has joined. 21:36:05 `unidecode n⁠ 21:36:32 -!- mhi^ has joined. 21:36:46 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42271&oldid=42270 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+453) 21:36:49 -!- perrier has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:36:49 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:37:06 ​[U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+2060 WORD JOINER] 21:37:43 mein gott 21:38:34 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42272&oldid=42271 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+437) 21:38:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:39:39 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:39:49 -!- fractal has joined. 21:41:28 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 21:42:35 -!- TieSleep has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:43:05 :t fmap 21:43:06 Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b 21:46:18 :t fmap :: Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b -- p. fancy 21:46:19 Monad m => (a -> b) -> m a -> m b 21:46:37 -!- constant has quit (Quit: 1 found in /dev/zero). 21:54:18 -!- variable has joined. 21:56:51 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 21:57:13 -!- vodkode_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:03:59 :t toList 22:04:00 Not in scope: ‘toList’ 22:04:00 Perhaps you meant one of these: 22:04:00 ‘F.toList’ (imported from Data.Foldable), 22:09:13 -!- mihow has joined. 22:11:08 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:14:00 :t toList 22:14:01 Not in scope: ‘toList’ 22:14:01 Perhaps you meant one of these: 22:14:01 ‘F.toList’ (imported from Data.Foldable), 22:20:19 :t toList 22:20:20 IsList l => l -> [Item l] 22:20:27 :k () :: Constraint 22:20:28 parse error on input ‘::’ 22:20:41 Ah. 22:22:48 -!- FatBack has joined. 22:23:24 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:23:40 :k (() :: Constraint) 22:23:41 Not in scope: type constructor or class ‘Constraint’ 22:23:41 Perhaps you meant ‘Contains’ (imported from Control.Lens) 22:25:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:25:46 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:26:58 :t toList 22:26:59 IsList l => l -> [Item l] 22:27:08 but, why 22:27:58 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42273&oldid=42272 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+811) 22:28:31 after all that work to avoid name clashes 22:29:53 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:30:18 -!- ^v has joined. 22:31:07 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42274&oldid=42273 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+63) 22:31:44 [wiki] [[Gott]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42275&oldid=42274 * AnonymousAnomaly * (+0) 22:32:46 funny, this module exports nothing: http://sprunge.us/XUNE?hs 22:34:41 :k (() :: Constraint) 22:34:42 Constraint 22:34:57 :k () :: Constraint -- this appears to be a ghci bug 22:34:58 parse error on input ‘::’ 22:35:25 fancy 22:36:16 huh indeed it doesn't seem to export anything 22:36:49 int-e: Not just ghci. 22:37:09 type A = () :: ... has the same issue. 22:37:50 if I just put an extra pair of parentheses there, will that break anything? 22:37:54 :t (Maybe) 22:37:55 Not in scope: data constructor ‘Maybe’ 22:37:55 Perhaps you meant variable ‘maybe’ (imported from Data.Maybe) 22:37:58 :k (Maybe) 22:37:59 * -> * 22:38:09 * variable is imported from lambdabot 22:40:34 -!- FatBack has set topic: penis. 22:41:06 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:41:08 -!- int-e has set topic: RIP Misao Okawa | I'm a fungot trapped in a channel full of weirdos | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 22:41:19 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*Fat@*.neo.res.rr.com. 22:41:19 -!- oerjan has kicked FatBack Go to Hell. 22:41:39 ...that's just the reaction they wanted, wasn't it. 22:41:49 probably 22:41:53 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:41:58 if it happens again, use your powers to set +t 22:42:04 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 22:42:05 (temporarily at least) 22:42:19 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +tsric. 22:42:27 argh 22:42:30 oops. 22:42:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -sric. 22:43:11 * int-e wonders what +r is... 22:43:19 i cannot remember, was it +c or +C 22:43:37 int-e: it's already happened, ais523 banned em yesterday 22:43:41 oerjan, /raw help umode 22:43:44 ah. block unidentified 22:43:56 erm cmode 22:44:04 variable: i am quite sure irssi doesn't use /raw 22:44:05 oerjan: +C 22:44:10 good 22:44:13 oerjan, eh? 22:44:17 * cmode : +C - Disable CTCP. All CTCP messages to the channel, except ACTION, 22:44:25 +c filters color, I hear some people here like color. 22:44:34 * cmode : +c - No color. All color codes in messages are stripped. 22:44:36 https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml works. 22:44:44 variable: my client doesn't use /raw 22:44:56 it uses /quote, hth 22:44:57 oerjan, oh, so just direct /help cmode 22:44:58 ? 22:45:02 ah, /quote 22:45:04 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 22:45:09 * variable can't remember irssi 22:45:30 no, /help cmode gives irssi's own help, which is empty 22:47:06 oerjan: use glguy's fancy new irc client hth 22:47:34 does it run on a terminal? 22:47:42 Yes. 22:48:07 does it look like irssi? 22:48:09 * int-e ducks 22:48:26 A little bit. 22:48:53 (I think I've already invested too much time in customizing irssi) 22:49:14 s/in /into / 22:49:25 But this client has all sorts of great features. 22:49:41 And also if you tell glguy what you're missing he'll implement it. 22:50:44 int-e: huh why doesn't Constraint get exported 22:52:34 huh it's just Constraint, too 22:53:17 (this with 7.8.3, naturally) 22:53:46 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 22:59:20 int-e: probably a ghc bug? 22:59:44 Maybe, I'm asking #ghc before I put in on Trac. 23:00:15 what you can do that 23:00:40 (I did verify that this doesn't happen with just any empty data type, perhaps it's a builtin identifiers thing.) 23:01:37 i verified that Any and Down worked... 23:01:53 (just random ones that aren't prelude or containing #) 23:02:15 oh, it's an indirect import thing. 23:02:46 (Constraint is "defined" in Ghc.Prim) 23:02:51 GHC.Prim 23:03:17 but so is a _lot_ of GHC.Exts, no 23:04:27 or not... 23:04:32 xor# works just fine, and is from there too 23:04:50 I don't know what went wrong in my test, cannot reproduce it anymore. 23:05:07 reproduce what? 23:05:39 the one where I thought that a reexport hid a reexported identifier 23:07:20 "the one"? the incident, I guess. 23:08:05 hm * is also in GHC.Prim but not in GHC.Exts 23:08:18 * shachaf is at computer now, tries to figure out what bug is being discussed. 23:08:22 I have not tried to reexport *. 23:08:36 Oh, the Constraint export paste above. 23:09:02 (since I don't really know how to refer to it in an import or export list) 23:09:23 (or what extension I need for that to work) 23:09:29 -!- ^v^v has joined. 23:09:35 (assuming it's possible at all) 23:09:38 oh right the source links weren't working in the 7.10 haddocks 23:10:41 int-e: it just seems that GHC.Exts reexports all of GHC.Prim, so * is also excluded there 23:11:54 GHC.Exts has an explicit export for Constraint, figures. 23:12:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:12:32 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:12:43 oh 23:13:40 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:13:41 no explanation :( https://github.com/ghc/ghc/commit/c0e32a32a3f20a9310e7321a8a96acfe0ef0d0f7 23:14:53 and it still exported GHC.Prim too 23:15:46 They should've just given Constraint a symbolic name like * 23:15:49 the most "obvious" cause to me is that this affects kind-only identifiers 23:15:57 Then it wouldn't've needed an import. 23:16:25 which cannot be defined presently iirc 23:16:41 which is why i wondered about * 23:17:08 shachaf: but then it'd clash with type operators 23:17:16 Just like * 23:17:28 yes but it'd be a _new_ clash. 23:17:48 Just give it a name starting with : 23:17:55 No one would name a type operator that. 23:18:07 * oerjan swats shachaf -----### 23:18:16 darn 23:18:20 you finally got me 23:18:47 The letdown is that I've said much more swatworthy things. 23:19:08 don't worry, the swatter is reusable. 23:19:22 Can it go back in time? 23:19:44 only if someone adds feather to it 23:19:44 editing the codu logs may be an option 23:22:26 (hmm, a minority report) 23:28:27 -!- zadock has joined. 23:38:08 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 23:42:57 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:45:59 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hug~♪).