< 1427241763 575241 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.64.183 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427242000 88081 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427242957 596475 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.74.84 QUIT :Quit: Going, going, gone. < 1427243181 585214 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427243334 348613 :Lymee!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427243422 15831 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! *krssshhht* the cookies are home *khkhhhssshhh* over *rrkrhhshttt* < 1427244219 123182 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427245300 703857 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-084-062-106-110.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1427245317 445656 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-084-062-106-110.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1427245432 477945 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427245576 128917 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427245911 902611 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-084-062-106-110.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1427245924 661602 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-084-062-106-110.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1427245988 420693 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1427246309 865960 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: REPORTED CHICKEN < 1427246585 321779 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1427247724 511106 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1427250969 332283 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1427251418 715424 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zjqmliirzmgiisij JOIN :#esoteric < 1427251841 422759 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427255139 465682 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1427255255 696145 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1427255683 870178 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djG0j3bpCLQ < 1427255818 595325 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427255982 571209 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427257621 978252 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1427259810 471921 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/clarus/falso < 1427260329 851019 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427260341 148347 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'll have to get a dissertation out the door at once. < 1427260592 652195 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1427260943 982806 :gde33!kvirc@546A0B75.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT : < 1427261170 814898 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427261187 898573 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: I was disappointed to find out that Coq's trusted kernel core is much more code than I thought it was (30,000+ lines). < 1427261209 959869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Agda is even less stable though.) < 1427261218 374035 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess HOL Light or Metamath or whatever are the only options if you want a core you can actually trust.) < 1427261369 363270 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427262852 964154 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427264382 692759 :qwertyo!~qwertyo1@rn-nat-129-97-131-0.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1427264384 300258 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427264671 769105 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1427268040 417778 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427268246 442660 :Novtopro_!~Novotpro@14.19.126.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427268400 146144 :vodkode!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427268430 776699 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427268513 835398 :Novtopro_!~Novotpro@14.19.126.37 QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1427268597 559589 :Novtopro_!~Novotpro@14.19.126.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427269079 90590 :Novtopro_!~Novotpro@14.19.126.37 QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1427269111 138449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : so is there only one ring over the rationals? <-- argh of course not < 1427269117 193276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's not here < 1427269141 630074 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1427269258 448000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey what about where a|b = 2*a*b <-- that is indeed a ring, but almost trivially so: \x -> 2*x is an isomorphism between that and the ordinary ring of rationals. < 1427269258 486664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427269362 161150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey hm it may be that all nontrivial rings that share the same addition as the rationals have to be like that. < 1427269362 279206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427269496 355981 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, of course not. the zero ring isn't like that, for one. < 1427269524 330846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the only one, and me just the value of 2 = 0 :P < 1427269543 69110 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact that was the ring i tried to exclude with "nontrivial" < 1427269551 869529 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1427269555 809739 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then... maybe < 1427269564 908562 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wait < 1427269571 846454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's fairly simply actually < 1427269588 525811 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yeah, I guess < 1427269605 315052 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use the distributive law to show that n|x = n*(1|x) < 1427269611 970556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an integer < 1427269630 980886 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the ring has a unit (but not necessarily 1 as the unit) then I think it has to be the same < 1427269663 802212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a|b = (1|1)*a*b < 1427269674 179918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what you end up with, i think < 1427269815 473810 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :q*((p/q)|a) = (p/1)|a = p*(1|a) by distributive law, so ((p/q)|a) = p/q*(1|a) < 1427269829 377158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(p,q integers) < 1427269987 275021 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can define an operation o(x,y) = log(e^x + e^y) < 1427270020 845470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey for p,q integers, q*((p/q)|a) = (p/1)|a = p*(1|a) by splitting p and q into sums of 1 and using the distributive law, so ((p/q)|a) = p/q*(1|a), i.e. b|a = b*(1|a) and by mirror argument = b*a*(1|1) < 1427270020 846420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427270047 528001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: that's not within the rationals < 1427270060 815442 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no < 1427270073 890357 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking about the relation between addition and multiplication < 1427270121 184889 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :That operation with addition should form a ring over reals, I think < 1427270123 86626 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/me just the value/is the special case& < 1427270131 401724 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, reals + negative infinity < 1427270157 94707 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to adjoin the negative infinity as the identity element < 1427270177 650169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because addition and multiplication aren't groups with the exact elements < 1427270193 154431 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shifting must compensate < 1427270212 16587 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not actually a mathematician < 1427270249 741040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, f(x) = e^x is a monoid homomorphism from addition to multiplication < 1427270262 191879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and of course it's also missing all the negative numbers < 1427270373 325044 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, unless you go into the complex numbers < 1427270406 925491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get a ring but maybe a semiring < 1427270419 168879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because o doesn't have inverses < 1427270455 698032 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good point < 1427270467 819989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :complexes doesn't really help, you get a multivalued mess < 1427270602 607373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is, i*i*i*i = 1 or even just (-1)*(-1) = 1 means complex multiplication cannot be isomorphic to addition < 1427270617 529762 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the latter applies to reals too < 1427270678 413233 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is x^(log(y)) = y^(log(x)) if x and y are positive? < 1427270703 473734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm they're both e^(log(x)log(y)) < 1427270705 211371 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( no, of course not ... err, yes it is. ) < 1427270760 703732 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does exp(log(x)log(y)) have any useful properties if we restrict ourselves to positive reals? < 1427270785 237675 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This was my spontaneous reaction, followed by the same rewriting that oerjan demonstrated.) < 1427270786 950880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, then it _is_ isomorphic to ordinary addition on all the reals < 1427270795 462852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1427270817 1480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is having trouble keeping the directions straight in his head
< 1427270850 369236 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiplication on the positive reals is isomorphic to addition on the reals < 1427270859 925586 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1427270881 255446 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: what you wrote is "obviously" isomorphic to _multiplication_ on all the reals < 1427270948 895044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it's a ring together with ordinary multiplication on the positive reals, by int-e's comment < 1427270957 706834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in fact a field) < 1427271020 742330 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. We're solving "If addition were ordinary multiplication on the positive reals, what would multiplication look like?" < 1427271047 151842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE < 1427271057 776769 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trying to clarify by confusion. < 1427271061 869845 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the inverse? < 1427271079 273659 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It rarely works, but it's often a lot of fun.) < 1427271100 347488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: exp(1/log(x)) i assume < 1427271139 907470 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yeah, that would fit the bill < 1427271250 9976 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427271260 919878 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1427271282 698135 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1427271379 41834 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me that in a first year course I once proved that f(x,y) = (x + y) / (1 - x y) (on R + { oo })) is a group operation by pointing out the homomorphism to R / 2piZ... that wasn't the expected solution :P < 1427271426 646944 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, R / (piZ) of course. < 1427271438 315766 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not write inf rather than oo? < 1427271450 443462 :v4s!v4s@we.are.on.the.internet.plzdonthack.us QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427271454 390949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get credit < 1427271456 514217 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because oo is cuter. < 1427271480 95844 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ∞ < 1427271508 738033 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did, together with a comment along the lines of "that's a nifty solution but you need a lot more theory to show that property of arctan than is required for solving this problem." < 1427271528 970311 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: ∞ is ugly here. < 1427271538 496234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh arctan right < 1427271577 615143 :v4s!v4s@we.are.on.the.internet.plzdonthack.us JOIN :#esoteric < 1427271582 505155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: did you know arctanh gives a homomorphism between ordinary addition and the special relativistic velocity addition formula? < 1427271610 320726 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's rather cool < 1427271614 339836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that formula is the same as your, except with + instead of - < 1427271618 811109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yours < 1427271644 955744 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I knew the latter, but not the velocity addition formula. < 1427271690 676735 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I may have seen it, but then it would've been obscured by some extra speeds of light (c)) < 1427271698 137708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well naturally < 1427271742 166110 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something involving 1/(1 - v^2/c^2) < 1427271759 426970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ not -, i say < 1427271759 709817 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1427271765 299682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you edirc < 1427271775 110678 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/HnoU7WuO < 1427271785 694021 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :verbose burlesque :D < 1427271811 732183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more bots and we _all_ need to add the HackEgo zero-width space < 1427272002 16028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a Basic/Pascal/Forth hybrid < 1427272039 935373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it like rings 3 different nostalgia bells < 1427272155 924136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gives me the feeling i'm missing more < 1427272183 58611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially that D5.0 D-1.1+(5(+:@ line < 1427272188 826992 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's supposed to be a nostalgia hybrid yes < 1427272197 63265 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Line 18 must be an ed reference. < 1427272216 367905 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/OASg3VqQ <- that's MATH.LIB btw < 1427272220 479235 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much in there yet though :) < 1427272724 888328 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Taworvor14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42182&oldid=40160 5* 03160.85.232.153 5* (-423) 10 < 1427272830 992530 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Taworvor14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42183&oldid=42182 5* 03160.85.232.153 5* (+320) 10/* Example */ < 1427273413 860336 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1427273459 119104 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427273641 19564 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427274200 872929 :zadock!~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1427274929 419108 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: D is just the prefix for doubles. < 1427274935 697336 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is required :) < 1427274962 276802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1427275069 846007 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I need to get that bot I was writing in Agda working < 1427275074 253170 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ is addition, or concat for lists. < 1427275074 518847 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1427275081 577307 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( takes an element and puts it into a list < 1427275081 745984 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :+help < 1427275081 991679 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1427275082 309588 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-084-062-106-110.084.062.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No such variable takes < 1427275088 908581 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1427275094 523756 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :: is revrse for list < 1427275100 73668 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and @ is print < 1427275145 492680 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+,p < 1427275145 695833 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighter < 1427275158 248142 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c < 1427275164 270405 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+,p < 1427275168 978616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+. < 1427275176 186705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1427275179 741184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+,p < 1427275179 979698 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :,p < 1427275194 705311 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+%d < 1427275197 735937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+,p < 1427275197 854655 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1427275203 324862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+i < 1427275206 712030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavier < 1427275207 488871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1427275208 770138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+,p < 1427275223 629689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+%p < 1427275228 902768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1p < 1427275237 407562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1427275238 967159 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+. < 1427275242 65206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+%d < 1427275243 639843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+i < 1427275246 563494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+heavier < 1427275248 22125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+. < 1427275250 335699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :+%p < 1427275250 563072 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :heavier < 1427275511 326336 :qwertyo!~qwertyo1@rn-nat-129-97-131-0.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427275877 957109 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this time not that many builtin as burlesque ;) < 1427275895 409465 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I want people to be able to write interpreters/compilers for it :) < 1427275907 120452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: looks like gil is finally showing up < 1427275980 301984 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C6F4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1427276630 345546 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to hear a useless fact? < 1427276645 499657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1427276685 528428 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 8 different pedestrian bridges in the British Isles called the Millennium Bridge < 1427276749 662363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly that's because of too many overlapping timelines < 1427276762 913498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggesting calling a Doctor < 1427277514 704790 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Taworvor14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42184&oldid=42183 5* 03160.85.232.153 5* (+114) 10/* Language Reference */ + draft. < 1427277545 346420 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1427277552 923695 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :started working on the ESOSC draft for it :D < 1427277930 172150 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427277932 936438 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427277983 784652 :qwertyo!~qwertyo1@rn-nat-129-97-131-0.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1427278565 682896 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, nortti: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Taworvor#Language_Reference < 1427278569 908437 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hurry though :) < 1427278831 953858 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427278900 109378 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Vriskanon 5* 10New user account < 1427279017 541699 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427279096 40050 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427279247 822202 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427279475 172431 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427280205 931289 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427280392 796798 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427282711 638675 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: TWIN CHICKEN < 1427283150 112966 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1427283665 46745 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1427283808 824422 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: byeannes < 1427284157 59465 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427284514 125254 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1427284553 574152 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42185 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+6129) 10Rough tutorial and example code for the Programming Language "Duck Duck Goose" < 1427284597 302341 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: what is the meaning of nss? afaiu it is one char that is not ^, then whiespace? < 1427284667 843786 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42186&oldid=42170 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+22) 10/* D */ < 1427284841 167937 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: True. < 1427284844 284549 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an error. < 1427284890 937187 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42187&oldid=42185 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+302) 10 < 1427284897 569841 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that should've been nss = { n }, ss; < 1427284927 128833 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just { n } < 1427284961 679298 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42188&oldid=42187 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+11) 10 < 1427284990 122613 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1427284994 422358 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nss = n, { n }, ss; < 1427285010 753975 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the ss can be dropped < 1427285011 600132 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa JOIN :#esoteric < 1427285013 944271 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n includes spaces anyway < 1427285298 391754 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42189&oldid=42188 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+40) 10Included credit where it's due < 1427285311 821167 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: give me my messages < 1427285466 555707 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/FMNSSun/Taworvor/blob/master/TESTS.PROG should cover pretty much everything now. < 1427285470 73761 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I/O stuff. < 1427285481 324403 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42190&oldid=42189 5* 0391.231.90.102 5* (+7) 10He wants me to put his surname on < 1427285569 869860 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: nss should eat everything between e.g. ^DESC and ^IS < 1427285577 212694 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ^DESC(.*)^ < 1427285582 560139 :nortti!~juhani@ayu.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1427285595 882231 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan so there's more than one ring over the rationals; that's what i suspected/all i wanted to know. thanks. < 1427285596 232993 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427285601 774481 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nss = n, { n }; should do that < 1427285647 642542 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think we could go with nss = { n } even < 1427285657 723873 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes no sense to force one character DESCs :D < 1427285734 225378 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :k. pushed with nss = { n}; < 1427285977 988983 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` { echo 'elliott ' ; printf '%s\n' {a..z} ; } > random_elliott; shuf --random-source /dev/zero random_elliott | tr -d '\n' < 1427285979 119169 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz < 1427286191 473736 :qwertyo!~qwertyo1@rn-nat-129-97-131-0.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427286466 133120 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell oerjan in your monad-over-finite-lists, is that "finite and fixed length" or "finite but unbounded length"? because if the latter, that would count, in strict/eager functional programming (I don't see why not anyway) < 1427286466 462660 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427286607 810744 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how "proof that there is only one (or none) possible algebraic structure y of Y over set X" proofs generally go, if it all. quantifying over operations, nasty business < 1427286961 238108 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427287364 846247 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427287655 536838 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when X is infinite. if X is finite, you can probably enumerate the possibilities. e.g. the boolean ring, I wouldn't be surprised if it was unique < 1427287694 821477 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it and a topsy-turvy dual of it where true is false and false is true < 1427288426 578739 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427288578 906605 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427289549 141906 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427290498 120178 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427290782 722120 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427290968 65328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427291205 879072 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok n/m "the boolean ring", doesn't mean what i thought it meant. instead, "the possible rings over the set {0, 1}". < 1427291736 66796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427291757 912168 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1427292355 45702 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1427292584 210079 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427292661 123493 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, does the ring's 0 have to be 0? < 1427292858 520414 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ring's 0 has to satisfy 0*x = 0 and 0+x = x, for all x, i believe. (i guess "be zero" is kind of a fuzzy way of saying just that :) < 1427292902 205534 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, does it have to be the one you have assigned the symbol "0" to when defining the set {0,1}? < 1427293157 391316 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427293177 675739 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427293179 883327 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1427293553 81834 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no. this would apply equally to any two-element set. < 1427293561 278940 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah :) < 1427294142 597743 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :searching for "ring with two elements" gets lots of hits saying "all rings with two elements are isomorphic" and "there is one ring with two elements" (in which i imagine is implied "up to isomorphism") < 1427294177 510319 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have yet to see anything saying "every set with 2 elements has exactly two rings" < 1427294205 985506 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ring theorists don't care about the concrete bits. they care about the isomorphisms < 1427294488 150814 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :this whole thing may encourage me to learn to use quickcheck < 1427294498 973886 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a way to search for counterexamples < 1427295402 143730 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:JSFuck14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42191 5* 03Esowiki201529A 5* (+41) 10Created page with "new Array().filter(callbackfn[, thisArg])" < 1427295454 226093 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, because the concrete bits are boring < 1427295458 143592 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw http://mroman.ch/burlesque/lref.html is back online. < 1427295482 330482 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take the symmetry group of the set, mod out by the automorphisms of the ring, and then you get all the different rings on the set < 1427295693 665091 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple like monoids < 1427295769 249163 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427296042 282856 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1427296075 277027 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427296085 111102 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs: https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque < 1427296165 799933 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I can see 47 new built-ins that were added (but are not yet on anagol) and are utterly not documented at all < 1427296236 511046 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1427296312 744546 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque/blob/master/Burlesque/Eval.hs#L532 < 1427296317 975975 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :built-ins after L532 are new < 1427296330 812529 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not documented, not on anagol. < 1427296414 236010 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fyi i have a few more ones that i want to work on in whitespace, and after that i'll try to get better at burlesque < 1427296429 986583 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1427296436 570407 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk how i'll do with it, there are a lot of built ins and i'm only superficially familiar with haskell < 1427296455 214593 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... :) < 1427296490 767774 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: my greater point with all this (if you care) is that the concrete bits are boring to mathematicians (as they should be) but not to programmers (who, alas, must get their hands dirty) < 1427296537 469544 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair < 1427296913 380191 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also, I'm interested to know if "the list monad" means "the usual list monad" or "the unique list monad" -- in case you care about that < 1427296943 114461 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to see examples of other list monads; I have yet to see a proof that there are no others < 1427297376 304723 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427297612 671558 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427299154 382441 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zjqmliirzmgiisij QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1427299193 50882 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427299691 11541 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1427299704 658176 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427300601 995709 :zadock!~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427300957 568313 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427301317 267949 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this new paper about in-memory vs. disk < 1427301320 861259 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1427301339 541764 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using += to concat strings in Java is stupid as hell from the start. < 1427301413 627190 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does it have to do with computing? < 1427301637 243339 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1427301638 977062 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flushing < 1427301651 744172 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does not block until all data is written out, does it? < 1427301662 738887 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it just means "well... the OS has it now" < 1427301669 920925 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean that it's on disk actually just yet. < 1427301819 639691 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.. if the computation is concatenation < 1427301827 98960 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to get the result you'd have to read it back into memory? < 1427301844 323222 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably works faster because what you just have written out is still in some memory buffer so the disk isn't even actually used? < 1427301887 516621 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427301893 682131 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you just want it to have concatenated on file then yes, probably just writing it has less overhead than concating it in memory first < 1427301911 966072 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... if you write every piece immediately to file you'll probably have a better memory footprint as well. < 1427302020 7578 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... essentially it means that doing a shitload of memcpy because you have to realloc and memcpy all the time because strings are imutable I guess isn't very fast anyway < 1427302045 88436 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want the same benchmark with linked strings! < 1427302058 978295 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's a stupid benchmark. < 1427302094 22739 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :flushing... need not block until all data is written out afaiu; that's fsync's job, isn't it? < 1427302147 402320 :heroux!~heroux@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zytdhssobragbavx QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427302182 631741 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought flush just means that you flushed your "internal buffer" and have given all the data to the OS somehow < 1427302190 482654 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might still be in a write buffer of the OS < 1427302209 305247 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We also see that immutable strings are not inherently a problem, as evidenced by Python’s much better performance with the modified code. < 1427302212 800860 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1427302214 279492 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- that's just plain bullshit? < 1427302226 989344 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note that fflush() only flushes the user-space buffers provided by the C library. To ensure that the data is < 1427302227 807006 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do concatenation then immutable strings ARE the problem. < 1427302229 971331 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric : physically stored on disk the kernel buffers must be flushed too, for example, with sync(2) or fsync(2). < 1427302236 236262 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse the indent, but, yeah < 1427302250 898086 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from `man fflush`) < 1427302280 246139 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Java performance numbers did not change when the concatenation order was reversed in the code in Appendix 1. However, using a mutable data type such as StringBuilder or StringBuffer dramatically improved the results." < 1427302295 515391 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-tgpickwgdizexhcx JOIN :#esoteric < 1427302297 102387 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty obvious. < 1427302297 954415 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1427302304 120728 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what StringBuilders are for :D < 1427302316 307237 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Did you read the paper? < 1427302324 145342 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :a paper that says that immutable strings are not the problem, then describes improvement when using mutable strings ok < 1427302331 620899 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't even know what this is < 1427302334 921076 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do string concatenation and measure how long it takes < 1427302337 542143 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure i want to know, frankly < 1427302345 499725 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then instead of string concatenation they just write it to file < 1427302346 524792 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1427302347 504127 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm < 1427302353 823861 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop: string += someData < 1427302354 682514 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1427302361 692955 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop: fwrite(fhandle, someData) < 1427302376 237171 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :fantastic, let's abuse the file buffers as string buffers < 1427302383 417803 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just do repeated string concatenations < 1427302395 899009 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: they don't read the file back anyway < 1427302407 428457 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: where did you find this thing? < 1427302410 742206 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paper, i mean < 1427302421 973545 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1503/1503.02678.pdf < 1427302442 120607 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :arxiv gonna arxiv < 1427302448 206346 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no IT expert < 1427302457 125108 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I call TOTAL ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT on this paper. < 1427302501 204954 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know what they *don't* say... "Publish non-bullshit or perish." < 1427302586 532691 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was linked on slashdot < 1427302592 251415 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the comments there pretty much support my view :D < 1427302663 986093 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was written by a biology guy? < 1427302666 850517 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1427302708 189902 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In this paper we use code inspired by real, production software" yeah right... < 1427302716 670608 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"naive string concatenation is a quadratic time operation" < 1427302761 578688 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1427302766 311153 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many details missing < 1427302774 414928 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what type of RAM, what type of Disk was used < 1427302780 335009 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what processor < 1427302801 681456 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Java 8 was used to compile the test code < 1427302803 366194 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1427302806 543561 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java 8 can compile things? < 1427302889 555562 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the examples of inefficient code that inspired this paper, and we suspect is many other similar cases, the developers have done what they have been trained to do, carefully reducing disk access, but the approach is obviously failing." < 1427302912 529155 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1427302912 753244 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: It doesn't matter. An O(n^2) algorithm will be slower than an O(n) one if you pick n large enough. < 1427302927 231086 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But from that perspective, you can condens the "paper" into one paragraph. < 1427302932 438393 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*condense < 1427302941 42895 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell does this have to do with web applications o_O < 1427302953 221178 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1427302955 912405 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to write to a temp file and then read it for string concatenation o_O < 1427302959 425754 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1427302967 733870 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably won't even spin up the disk due to buffers < 1427302969 15001 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... < 1427302973 704630 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1427302983 598486 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot, assembling strings by concatenating small parts is *very* common. < 1427303021 436690 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And streaming helps to relieve some memory pressure (now there would be another paragraph for the "paper", but they do not touch upon that part of the problem). < 1427303047 546971 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :small string concat is indeed very common yes < 1427303057 952152 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since you need to deliver the "end result" to the client < 1427303068 759823 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get me wrong, it's an awful paper all around. It's overselling a trivial problem and to top it off, it's drawing the wrong conclusions. < 1427303074 747689 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1427303080 180552 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :php already does streaming anyway? < 1427303082 15129 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. slashdot still exists? < 1427303083 207765 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1427303101 908224 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course just writing to a network socket is probably better than concating it in memory and then write it to the socket < 1427303122 964638 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially using immutable strings < 1427303138 489335 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they don't even get to that point < 1427303167 174362 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but but StringBuilder < 1427303180 566741 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like the java architects haven't thought about this problem < 1427303205 320876 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr i share your facepalm mroman < 1427303226 388489 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we all agree on that. < 1427303298 592305 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1427303299 719210 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm just defending the point that the observed problem is real.) < 1427303301 855405 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems php doesn't do streaming? < 1427303319 472103 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's ob_flush at least hm. < 1427303325 272104 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know PHP at all) < 1427303356 143941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why do you want to use a StringBuilder? Strings in php are mutable. Therefore performance is not an issue." - because mutability solves all performance issues! < 1427303440 129075 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :php has mutable strings? < 1427303686 804694 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sound surprised, don't youb know that PHP implements all bad ideas found in other programming languages ;) < 1427303865 389954 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1427303873 248220 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised you can publish something like this :) < 1427303915 296819 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what I know about PHP is that uhm... < 1427303920 885127 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has these weird things like register_globals? < 1427303923 190959 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic_quotes < 1427303924 35986 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1427303958 732190 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think works like that that it automatically manipulates the input from the user < 1427303973 379841 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you don't get the actual user input < 1427303987 556231 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in php, == isn't transitive < 1427303988 413345 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then doing some string concat for buildin an SQL query < 1427303989 723950 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf. They're using concatString = addString + concatString ....... < 1427304002 631719 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: of course! < 1427304013 671237 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to check if a = a + b is faster than a = b + a or not < 1427304018 154644 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then their "disk writing" code is not even equivalent. < 1427304022 684062 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: well, it is! < 1427304024 625736 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. false == 0 && 0 == "0" && false != "0" < 1427304044 243917 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like javascript < 1427304046 298303 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=,==,=== < 1427304052 270873 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My newest esolang will have ==== < 1427304062 896746 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! < 1427304066 278211 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1427304071 564482 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0" == 0 will be true < 1427304080 143035 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because == tries some automatic conversions < 1427304088 134776 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0" === 0 will be false because not same type < 1427304093 756649 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 === 0 is obviously true < 1427304100 460910 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but!!! < 1427304111 634169 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$a = 0; $b = 0; $a === $b; will be true < 1427304118 165157 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, $a ==== $b; won't < 1427304129 695400 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :more equal signs should mean that it tries harder to make things equal, so that e.g. 0 ================== 1 < 1427304137 672828 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ==== checks if both are the same variables! < 1427304138 642816 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1427304143 169357 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$a ==== $a is in fact true < 1427304144 551316 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: how is thaz any useful? < 1427304150 728421 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but $a ==== $b is not < 1427304161 777722 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: well it's probably useful when call by reference is used? < 1427304163 498343 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427304164 822512 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like uhm < 1427304172 501077 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :func foo($a, $b) { return $a ==== $b; } < 1427304188 310036 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo($a, $a); will be true but foo($a, $b); won't? < 1427304203 701969 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in foo they are different variable < 1427304209 859772 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1427304213 430210 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the same reference! < 1427304220 252831 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ==== would essentially compare references < 1427304242 908363 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like java's == does < 1427304264 54707 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about using = as a unary symbol and making prime numbers variables < 1427304285 937282 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and! < 1427304287 948787 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :===== < 1427304297 613227 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ======7 would set the var 5 to the value 7 < 1427304299 682626 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only compares constants < 1427304330 56400 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or literals < 1427304330 772181 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1427304341 497453 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :=======7 would compare var 5 with value 7 < 1427304355 457563 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 ==== 5 would probably not be true since it's probably treated as new Integer(5) == new Integer(5)? < 1427304363 198309 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1427304366 672418 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1427304368 510008 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going home. < 1427304437 268307 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do NOT try to reason about PHP. < 1427304446 309587 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just, NO. < 1427304552 535378 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :next you'll tell us not to do surgery with a tea spoon < 1427305914 155306 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm only trying to save your souls < 1427305991 333848 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427307430 359957 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427307982 368749 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427309014 241041 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1427309810 611618 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :php is basically built so that copypaste programs can work < 1427310180 237833 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1427310358 875525 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427310715 230684 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1427310789 495835 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427310864 949746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427310881 689358 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427310904 751124 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com NICK :Guest90077 < 1427311321 819216 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LOWI < 1427311322 712278 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 251850Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW050 SCT065 BKN080 11/04 Q1001 NOSIG < 1427311336 847080 :Guest90077!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1427311336 886372 :Guest90077!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1427311340 528906 :Guest90077!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1427311383 966499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I was about to ask what the intended purpose of random_elliott was < 1427311391 267677 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was very confusing thanks to just having woken up < 1427311456 322645 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427311700 254388 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1427311830 830993 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1427311835 770618 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to confuse you < 1427312072 399375 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said that with the right random source you could use shuf just like cat < 1427312112 555449 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :` echo 123 | sort | shuf | cat | tac < 1427312113 630671 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1427312115 187407 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo 123 | sort | shuf | cat | tac < 1427312116 277390 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :123 < 1427312311 945893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: yeah, I realised that pretty quickly, hehe < 1427312327 326819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: I was just like "is this a command to print random letters at me? what is this for? why me? help?" < 1427312331 797429 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1427313169 567261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1427313262 940129 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1427313262 940820 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey said 7h 41m 6s ago: so there's more than one ring over the rationals; that's what i suspected/all i wanted to know. thanks. < 1427313263 108279 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey said 7h 26m 36s ago: in your monad-over-finite-lists, is that "finite and fixed length" or "finite but unbounded length"? because if the latter, that would count, in strict/eager functional programming (I don't see why not anyway) < 1427313300 577982 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey finite but unbounded length, is the intention. < 1427313300 679861 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427313551 318394 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1427313916 766673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are you sure it's a monad btw? < 1427313920 825670 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a bad history with monads on [] :P < 1427313926 212579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1427313963 511663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is a monad but who is ever sure. < 1427313976 171443 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, I wonder when Cheyenne will get around to coloring the March 4th and 13th comics... < 1427314005 537529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first monad law is obviously true by construction. the second is nearly obvious. < 1427314032 13557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third needs a bit of thinking, but i think it is true. < 1427314143 775375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let dbind [x] f = f x; dbind l f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l' where l' = map f l < 1427314147 283168 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1427314238 444736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x f g -> (((x::[Int]) `dbind` f :: [Int]) `dbind` g :: [Int]) == x `dbind` \t -> f t `dbind` g < 1427314240 241815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : *** Failed! (after 3 tests and 4 shrinks): < 1427314240 242519 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Exception: L.hs:(157,1)-(159,20): Non-exhaustive patterns in function dbind ... < 1427314248 511373 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1427314254 782910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : @undef < 1427314275 935141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@undef < 1427314276 17 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Undefined. < 1427314279 828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let dbind [x] f = f x; dbind l f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l' | otherwise = [] where l' = map f l < 1427314282 633817 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1427314286 544641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x f g -> (((x::[Int]) `dbind` f :: [Int]) `dbind` g :: [Int]) == x `dbind` \t -> f t `dbind` g < 1427314288 186889 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : +++ OK, passed 100 tests. < 1427314294 19097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1427314342 572291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if it's not done already it'll probably be "whenever" up until actual printed version < 1427314422 622460 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@check \x -> ((x::[Int]) `dbind` return) == x < 1427314424 274343 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : +++ OK, passed 100 tests. < 1427314501 983127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell cpressey Checked my monad with @check hth < 1427314502 22274 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427314573 696097 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427314623 472758 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu QUIT :Quit: 5.0.1? 5.0.1! < 1427314772 289634 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427314789 823091 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427314792 239490 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1427314835 639792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is it getting 7.10 now? < 1427314842 835016 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1427314862 966828 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1427314866 402305 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting for the official release. < 1427314895 719523 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1427314913 317280 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427315083 958070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hm, do you maintain lambdabot now? < 1427315086 306286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source code < 1427315096 116426 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly? < 1427315102 542997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1427315179 280899 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@version < 1427315179 473798 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot 5.0.1 < 1427315179 474573 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot < 1427316043 435263 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427317504 615644 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427318274 439146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427318308 18177 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1427319587 344129 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42192&oldid=42190 5* 0381.102.250.85 5* (+67) 10inspiration < 1427319748 8662 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1427319916 393172 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there? < 1427319934 621198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. hi < 1427319960 766521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm here, but not elliott (as opposed to elliott, who is elliott but not here) < 1427319974 10523 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if this exists or not... Something like vnc that uses the GPU on the server to render and then compresses the data for reasonable transfer speed, the one you mentioned the other day didn't do OpenGL stuff did it? < 1427319989 423289 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :xpra < 1427319996 224960 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does OpenGL? < 1427320000 376921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah nice < 1427320003 720762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. it's good, anyway. < 1427320005 982426 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then this might be salvagble < 1427320007 994392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that, you'd /expect/ it to use OpenGL < 1427320015 505433 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also adjust it to use lossless compression or lossy H.264 or whatever < 1427320017 791551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty flexible < 1427320026 406168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does rootless too < 1427320029 808095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really nice < 1427320035 226401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't, like, watch youtube videos with it, though. < 1427320039 533294 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how many servers have working DirectX, and there currently are no other graphics APIs that are nearly as popular < 1427320053 431785 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well youtube is sending H.264 or WebM anyway < 1427320067 642290 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so decoding and re-encoding the video could only make things worse < 1427320082 58691 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I want it to reasonably be able to run a program using OpenGL, the client I'm connecting from has old old intel graphics < 1427320095 877313 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The desktop I want to remote to has a reasonable AMD GPU < 1427320155 630087 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I want to use some programs that are GPU heavy (as in GPGPU with OpenCL + OpenGL visualization) < 1427320207 58761 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it appears debian has a super old xpra version < 1427320208 105085 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wlel < 1427320209 429108 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well* < 1427320220 200316 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, there is a backports < 1427320236 589812 :gde33!kvirc@546A0B75.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1427320239 565467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is newer than the version I want to connect from, on an ubuntu laptop < 1427320583 5893 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-tgpickwgdizexhcx QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1427320688 934920 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42193&oldid=42192 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+407) 10Moved the Tutorial/List_of_Instructions to a table < 1427320691 511611 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-ubbamsepanwbmlpv JOIN :#esoteric < 1427320785 234678 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42194&oldid=42193 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (-82) 10Fixed 10 Ducks (Loop Ends) < 1427320843 663491 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42195&oldid=42194 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+0) 10Put a Y in the 10 Ducks row where N should have been. < 1427321009 827938 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah that didn't work, time to try to find compatible versions < 1427321039 576109 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42196&oldid=42195 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+0) 10 < 1427321083 681936 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427321096 107945 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yep, once you install exactly the same version on both sides, it works < 1427321109 372036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of xpra? yeah < 1427321389 693609 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427321398 274449 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1427321469 746439 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42197&oldid=42196 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+317) 10More Clear Sections < 1427321475 767545 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ glxgears < 1427321475 769754 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :X Error of failed request: BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) < 1427321475 897479 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Major opcode of failed request: 135 (GLX) < 1427321475 898274 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Minor opcode of failed request: 19 (X_GLXQueryServerString) < 1427321475 898322 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Serial number of failed request: 12 < 1427321476 697666 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Current serial number in output stream: 12 < 1427321478 741818 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, crap < 1427321492 713195 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works fine for none opengl stuff though < 1427321496 523138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can use VNC? < 1427321507 854464 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :x11vnc might be worth a try < 1427321511 612459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I enable OpenGL or other X11 extensions on the server? < 1427321511 613576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please see Xdummy, for acceleration see ​virtualgl < 1427321516 485878 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1427321518 125428 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xpra.org/trac/wiki/Xdummy http://www.virtualgl.org/ < 1427321522 889452 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look into that < 1427321526 400029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427321527 888311 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1427321543 196304 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best way to deal with this is to use ​VirtualGL to take advantage of the OpenGL acceleration provided by the graphics card, just run: vglrun yourapplication. < 1427321580 903321 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Duck Duck Goose14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42198&oldid=42197 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+62) 10 < 1427321581 138887 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as long as it is the server that is doing the rendering I'm happy < 1427321582 231526 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.virtualgl.org/About/Introduction yeah < 1427321584 502375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like what you want < 1427321604 249917 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because the client can't do opengl for shit. It is a core 2 duo and intel graphics < 1427321671 590285 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Vriskanon14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42199 5* 03Vriskanon 5* (+134) 10Who is Vriskanon < 1427321712 129194 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, need to build it, doesn't appear to be packaged... And yeah < 1427321777 596416 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427321785 723535 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net PART :#esoteric < 1427322342 375686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell int-e it seems like the fix to Typeable introduced the new bug that is currently holding up ghc :P https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-devs/2015-March/008570.html < 1427322342 540023 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1427322458 616810 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not surprised < 1427322548 134766 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's also a haddock problem. and spj just went on vacation. < 1427322882 555075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1427323043 111549 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I can't get virtualgl to work inside xpra, though it does work natively on the machine < 1427323062 179685 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe run it outside < 1427323065 208107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like virtualgl xpra ... < 1427323066 103524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh maybe not < 1427323067 15087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like < 1427323072 552694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtualgl xpra-server-i-forget-how-you-start-it ... < 1427323079 190234 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or xpra --xpra-server-thing=virtualgl blahhh idk < 1427323081 119787 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"something like that" < 1427323086 414693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you google xpra virtualgl there's probably something < 1427323106 92159 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xpra.org/trac/ticket/320 < 1427323135 342622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.xpra.org/trac/wiki/Xdummy might help too < 1427323264 69305 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read both of those already :/ < 1427323288 562938 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Proprietary drivers often install their own copy of libGL which conflicts with the use of software GL rendering. You cannot use this GL library to render directly on Xdummy (or Xvfb). < 1427323288 692607 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best way to deal with this is to use ​VirtualGL to take advantage of the OpenGL acceleration provided by the graphics card, just run: vglrun yourapplication." < 1427323301 781603 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The former is the case, but the latter should deal with this I thought? < 1427323312 814647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how are you actually doing it < 1427323316 819860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like where are you putting vglrun < 1427323348 750270 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an xterm opened over xpra I'm trying to run vglrun glxgears (as a test) < 1427323363 33133 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure that getting glxgears to work should be the most basic step < 1427323372 717070 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, idk. can't really debug from "doesn't work" < 1427323372 809150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427323377 766068 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe you need to do the "+extension GLX +extension RANDR +extension RENDER" thing < 1427323380 682439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that wiki page < 1427323426 796397 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :xvfb=Xorg -dpi 96 -noreset -nolisten tcp +extension GLX +extension RANDR +extension RENDER -logfile ${HOME}/.xpra/Xorg.${DISPLAY}.log -config /etc/xpra/xorg.conf < 1427323432 501489 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is already there, checked that < 1427323438 5545 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the default setup < 1427323453 724874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, you haven't even told me the error or anything :p I'm no expert though < 1427323456 728907 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just dig in logs and stuff < 1427323457 935317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try random things < 1427323474 243250 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try vglrun wrapping different things < 1427323491 629795 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah tried glxinfo too, no luck < 1427323494 467445 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1427323497 565951 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, bug 320 does seem a bit more relevant < 1427323513 243735 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It mentions fglrx issues... < 1427323647 440685 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C6F4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427323698 508173 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, might be worth trying something like turbovnc + virtualgl though < 1427323862 670065 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1427323936 346958 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: #10176 is the bug (hmm, and the fix doesn't touch any of the code that was changed by the Typeable patch, isn't that fun.) I hear (on #ghc) that Austin is struggling with the haddock thing. < 1427324065 966045 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427324123 486406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1427324287 985201 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :good morning < 1427324814 803717 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427325097 478126 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you created any RDF namespaces or any XML namespaces or any UUIDs? < 1427325474 650954 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1427325711 144608 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427325727 213578 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427326682 444383 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427326692 860158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427326705 670175 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`uuidgen < 1427326707 259938 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uuidgen: not found < 1427326743 616367 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/uuid < 1427326744 687776 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a8ce6013-1813-47c6-9f42-56be50696a28 < 1427326761 830828 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427326765 401797 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you were looking for? it's a kernelspace utility nowadays, not userspace, for some reason < 1427326786 647710 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it kernelspace utility now? < 1427326807 164421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1427326820 950632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote my own version 1 UUID generator, but I want to know if you have used UUID you make up by yourself < 1427327007 315823 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1427327486 875768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1427327610 540658 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5873099/is-proc-sys-kernel-random-uuid-strong-keying-material < 1427327621 476912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1427327627 70769 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it's not one of the bad UUID formats < 1427327635 149410 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, people are /seeding/ with that? :-) < 1427327640 242843 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I don't think uuidgen stopped existing or anything... < 1427327696 729993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, if you're seeding, use /dev/random or /dev/urandom depending on why you're seeding < 1427327701 5916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a bit weird that the UUID logic is in kernelspace but I guess it's trivial enough < 1427327701 929848 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427327702 407727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what they're /for/ < 1427327705 861838 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like /dev/urandom really < 1427327711 957314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bu with formatting crap on top of it < 1427327723 599614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/urandom is kernelspace for a good reason, though < 1427327731 580309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's possible to implement in userspace < 1427327737 202675 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1427327741 295288 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427327743 892194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the reason that /dev/random might have zero entropy the first time you try to access urandom1) < 1427327746 430987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*urandom(1) < 1427327867 865261 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427327888 33197 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427327889 467883 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1427327900 871547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I should probably change aimake's GUID generation to use version 3 or 5 GUIDs < 1427327937 976161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because atm it's basically just using a truncated hash as the entire GUID, relying on the chance of collisions being basically 0 for uniqueness