< 1427155318 691605 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427155331 303904 :zzo38!~zzo38@d50-92-136-249.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427155614 433623 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1427155658 760529 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427155682 160100 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com NICK :Guest69134 < 1427155899 927115 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:e038:be9e:ae3:daed JOIN :#esoteric < 1427156766 650033 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427156945 13758 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427157213 620800 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1427157314 66615 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1427157390 560158 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@massages-loud < 1427157390 657568 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have any messages < 1427157865 272185 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloily < 1427158082 248554 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProofTechellonique! < 1427158317 728336 :Andodaan!~AD@149-86-169-81.mobileinternet.proximus.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1427158331 50430 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427159097 30444 :iamevn!~iamevn|@75-139-67-204.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427159184 400189 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427159401 974688 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427159428 649247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427159467 184230 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1427159638 552896 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Kasran14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=42180 5* 03Kasran 5* (+71) 10hello! < 1427160438 678471 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :god dammit. these ads on youtube music videos that are, themselves, music videos < 1427160536 628238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus points if two music videos have each other as ads? < 1427160540 842699 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands some AdBlock potions to orin < 1427160554 33183 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellorin. aren't you oren usually? < 1427160557 837973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1427160574 130110 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellæis523! < 1427160574 217066 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume some people archive ads on YouTube < 1427160589 360222 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some day someone will have the ad for a video be the same as the video itself < 1427160621 364849 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yah, my passport says "oren" but sometimes I spell it other ways < 1427160632 593958 :Andodaan!~AD@149-86-169-81.mobileinternet.proximus.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :The realization is that the encapsulating music video is really an ad. < 1427160689 611772 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would'nt mind so much if the two musics were the same genre < 1427160739 690389 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chiptune demo video opening with bruno mars' new single < 1427160741 68231 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which shawn mendes and BABYMETAL are not, at all < 1427160743 147286 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my passport doesn't say "ais523" :-( < 1427160744 650988 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1427160773 433561 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my has a boily in there ^^ < 1427160774 9095 :Andodaan!~AD@149-86-169-81.mobileinternet.proximus.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not use an ad blocker? < 1427160804 990710 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: the only way to get babymetal out of my mind is some heavy touhou remixes. < 1427160934 181263 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Crow's Claw? < 1427160936 721382 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :adadadadadada dokkyu! zokkyu dokkyu zokkyu dokkyu yada yada yada neva neva neva! < 1427160971 353543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427160986 346071 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mapoles orin with a swift swing < 1427160986 388822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427161039 901889 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kasran: IOSYS usually does the job for me, but I do enjoy some Alstroemeria. what are your favourite circles? < 1427161148 196476 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shinra bansho, hatunetu-miko's, IRON ATTACK! < 1427161166 55404 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not super into Touhou music, so I'm not sure I'd be able to pick out any favorites. I do like what I've heard from Crow's Claw, though. < 1427161172 303106 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1427161202 558831 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: heh! listening to hatsunetsu at this moment right now :D ♪ < 1427161216 980343 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kasran: bleh? < 1427161237 986397 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kasran: you should try Demetori, particularly their later albums. some epic rocking in them. < 1427161284 949110 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh!!!! And alright, I'll take a look, thanks. < 1427161336 940760 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like anything from Odyssey Music/T. Stebbins/Eurobeat Brony/ whatever other pseudonyms he has < 1427161386 103260 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is he/she/it? < 1427161425 841024 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :An amazing male vocalist who does songs in a whole bunch of fandoms < 1427161450 295546 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LpGkyR3hfI < 1427161455 478148 :Guest69134!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com NICK :elliott < 1427161458 475194 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1427161458 476375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1427161697 947812 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427161872 52077 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently he is also named Ken Blast and also mortimer Mortimer < 1427161921 668997 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427161945 746029 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu QUIT :Quit: ssh to uoft is slowing up < 1427162013 460485 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the first mortimer lowercase like that? < 1427162024 169344 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aesthetic! < 1427162036 726999 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that was a result of a slow connection < 1427162088 729648 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by convention Eurobeat song and artist names are limited to numbers and uppercase letters. No idea why < 1427162253 966742 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A typical song listing is of the form "PRETTY GIRL ROCK / SPEEDMASTER feat CINDY" < 1427162334 941249 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: ARTICULATED CHICKEN < 1427162521 780878 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? oren < 1427162523 53933 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. < 1427162528 471883 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1427162548 863109 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes asleep already < 1427163707 415891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427164100 86071 :adu_!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427164820 107633 :zzo38!~zzo38@d50-92-136-249.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading something David Sirlin wrote recently, and now I can see that he even designed a Magic: the Gathering card. < 1427165107 339847 :adu_!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTG++ < 1427165159 390121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1427165163 481289 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427165164 956743 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net NICK :ais523 < 1427165176 716988 :ais523!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1427165176 718082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427166036 995376 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1427167562 134466 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:e038:be9e:ae3:daed QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427167743 15285 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:e038:be9e:ae3:daed JOIN :#esoteric < 1427167828 576268 :Andodaan!~AD@149-86-169-81.mobileinternet.proximus.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427168836 346057 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw this crap. I'm making my own image editor < 1427168948 45976 :augur_!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427168973 539373 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1427168973 926713 :edirc!~edirc@unaffiliated/izabera/bot/edirc PRIVMSG #esoteric :lighter < 1427168998 785313 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: what is this crap? < 1427169006 79921 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427169066 265686 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427169073 979162 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: mtpaint < 1427169210 835849 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:e038:be9e:ae3:daed QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427169334 72370 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427169344 651195 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ma make a better one. with scripting. and whores < 1427169466 472329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1427169469 338909 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:e038:be9e:ae3:daed JOIN :#esoteric < 1427169480 345809 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427169532 663454 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I want to be able to select a quadrilateral out of the image and deform it into another quadrilateral < 1427169579 244629 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagemagick? < 1427169636 441962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: are they both parallelograms? < 1427169669 623461 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1427169695 490017 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are roughly trapezoids < 1427169883 565221 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :affine translation might still work, on that data, but it's far from guaranteed < 1427169887 785395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, affine transformation < 1427170108 763748 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way I'd do it is by taking the diagonals to anchor your coordinate system, and define the transformation in terms of that. Not sure if it's linear < 1427170214 26743 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude/bot/geekbot QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1427170239 536132 :_AndoDaan!~AD@109.140.188.173 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427171183 301033 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427171513 158146 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427171617 341402 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427171781 306133 :zzo38!~zzo38@d50-92-136-249.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427172040 658554 :iamevn!~iamevn|@75-139-67-204.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com QUIT :Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit (Quit: iamevn has quit)))))))) < 1427172699 800391 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427172710 185149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427172711 950872 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1427174050 623211 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tvqocffmliobhlyt JOIN :#esoteric < 1427174153 550371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Image processing tools generally call that a "perspective" transformation. < 1427174217 90742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the trapezia are isoceles and the two parallel sides are horizontal, I've also seen it called "keystone" < 1427174310 198575 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/distorts/#perspective etc. < 1427174382 145500 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've only seen the "keystone" term in a projector context.) < 1427174406 91509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, POSIX defines the syntax of yacc using a yacc grammar < 1427174416 406501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus leading to a standard in need of bootstrapping < 1427174457 532836 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAELI: a language for which the syntax of yacc is an interpreter for that language, ideally in as non-contrived a way as possible < 1427174544 721110 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX defines all of its syntax using a yacc grammar. < 1427174599 887023 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make it any less of a circular definition < 1427174704 863232 :Novtopro!~Novotpro@113.96.143.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427174821 452058 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427174834 208911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427175053 591912 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427175306 261957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1427175316 242345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427176013 770482 :Novtopro!~Novotpro@113.96.143.198 QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1427176905 585024 :_AndoDaan!~AD@109.140.188.173 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1427177929 524326 :Kasran!9817d77a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.23.215.122 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1427178260 363081 :fractal!~fractal@2607:fcd0:100:4300::3e34:746 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1427178542 279417 :fractal!~fractal@2607:fcd0:100:4300::3e34:746 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427178910 279114 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1427178965 840685 :adu_!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu_ < 1427179627 105889 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fungot and zemhill got k-lined... < 1427179637 782157 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1427179637 930525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily said 19h 28m 43s ago: I know. < 1427179651 260879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to assume that was in-context < 1427179660 163892 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's much less than a year, so no new record < 1427179689 474739 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? < 1427179700 545419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: fungot and zemhill got k-lined... I know < 1427179711 728602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1427179718 464922 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1y < 1427179719 672068 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :497) monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...around half an hour later...] @messages quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell < 1427179726 383005 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the previous record < 1427179742 533158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still the current record < 1427179747 304778 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1427179814 234103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :>25 years without a cavity, and BAM! 5 in one year ;_; < 1427179836 822606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you changed diet? < 1427179839 480786 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i have no one to blame but my shrinks < 1427179860 785877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd better not give too much advice, though, or you might turn into Sgeo < 1427179862 709342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody wants that < 1427179887 862041 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more chocolate, less brushing teeth, pretty obvious cause really < 1427179912 91808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually gave up chocolate accidentally in march last year (possibly even february) < 1427179914 978628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided to just run with it < 1427179970 620641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started eating chocolate in the middle of the night because it seemed to help with my foot cramps... < 1427179997 135075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i had already done that a year ago, when the checkup was clean < 1427180018 187274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not as much < 1427180082 109415 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i'm unlikely to become like Sgeo, my way is to ignore all advice completely hth < 1427180338 557754 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427180347 393295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427180866 605315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode � < 1427180875 343214 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] < 1427180906 40205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone didn't have unicode set up properly < 1427181097 803755 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 𝍐 < 1427181098 845814 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+1D350 TETRAGRAM FOR FAILURE] < 1427181151 799780 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the same thing, there < 1427181179 698936 :vodkode__!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427181197 573062 :vodkode__!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1427181221 834674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's not supposed to look the same < 1427181233 859332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much a failure, then. < 1427181289 983317 :_AndoDaan!~AD@109.140.191.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427181642 178842 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode 負 < 1427181643 395882 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+8CA0 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8CA0] < 1427181689 573681 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :see this is stupid. why does the tetragram have its iching meaning in it but the kanji has a stupid hex number < 1427181720 338908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been assuming it's because the kanji's meaning might depend on language < 1427181750 505864 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to such an extent... < 1427181776 494440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's because they hate humans, then < 1427181832 525041 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :damned racists < 1427181855 769284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically that's speciesist hth < 1427181871 410458 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The human species < 1427182858 423901 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1427183005 89096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : why does irssi use your local username as default nick <-- because you haven't saved your nick setting? < 1427183045 679439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think that's part of the server setting < 1427183062 250169 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1427183137 369658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nick isn't listed as an argument on permanent servers < 1427183320 775266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's in .irssi/config, anyway < 1427184572 530513 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427184580 689902 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1427184742 429960 :_AndoDaan!~AD@109.140.191.70 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427184905 145104 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1427186120 705349 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427187307 441442 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainloller14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42181&oldid=32144 5* 03212.13.18.233 5* (+108) 10Added php implementation on github < 1427187585 115979 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427188912 113425 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you tired of those stupid console programs that don't have a line editing library? < 1427188939 815395 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you press the arrows and get ^[[A ^[[B < 1427189020 311552 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fear no more! https://github.com/izabera/bin/blob/master/rrlwrap < 1427189081 149386 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you can just run rrlwrap otherprogram and the power of readline will be yours < 1427189303 494266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: how does that differ featurewise from ledit, another program that does the same thing? < 1427189319 715124 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all, the author is much sexier < 1427189353 996858 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, the author didn't know ledit < 1427189377 342807 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author did know rlwrap but it was a fun experiment anyway < 1427189377 542184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :author sexiness has never been a reason to choose between programs < 1427189384 640632 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, the author of ledit didn't know of rrlwrap either < 1427189386 319233 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always has < 1427189389 784908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that condition's kind-of a wash < 1427189463 841049 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :this has the added bonus of being less than 100 lines long \o/ < 1427189463 945912 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                                             | < 1427189464 32092 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                                                            /^\ < 1427189479 528878 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1427189479 531638 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69  | < 1427189479 533519 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 /`\ < 1427189484 447929 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one useful bot < 1427189490 317593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not entirely a bot < 1427189496 964044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a human and bot using the same account < 1427189500 939988 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh myndzi is working properly again < 1427189502 90736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can get confusing when they're both speaking < 1427189534 635181 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4c6f4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1427189655 485567 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :third reason: this is the only important part of my code and it works on its own < 1427189657 861226 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :while read -re; do < 1427189659 831572 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : history -p -- "$REPLY" < 1427189661 964561 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric : history -s -- "$REPLY" < 1427189663 844717 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :done | "$@" < 1427189688 515107 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?!?!?! 4 lines!?!?!? < 1427189693 54480 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. 4 lines. < 1427189704 51200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in shellscript? < 1427189708 6525 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes \o/ < 1427189708 113497 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69      | < 1427189708 229190 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69     /| < 1427189713 537638 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :of ffs < 1427189731 131751 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o < 1427189733 51413 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1427189858 377021 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd ^celebrate but someone killed fungot < 1427189910 118439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would fungot be klined? < 1427189920 179688 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_and_ zemhill < 1427189946 180992 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I assume they're on the same connection < 1427189948 44048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that makes more sense < 1427190381 96440 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: byeannes < 1427190761 829070 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1427191895 229067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1427191985 102838 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427192512 218657 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1427193804 465406 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1427193811 760305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, they're connecting from the same place. < 1427193855 424014 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are banned from this server- Spam is not allowed on freenode. Please contact kline@freenode.net if you think this kline has been set in error." < 1427193938 16434 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1427193944 910944 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it seems to have been temporary. < 1427194551 441287 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe fungot needed to make some urgent international funds transfers. < 1427194551 533435 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: so what of it doesn't really work < 1427194586 511473 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427194720 154969 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: stop bein sentient. < 1427194720 283266 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yeah, i didn't know much < 1427194725 127243 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: thanks. < 1427194725 477914 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ' s if you can implement call/ cc k receiver) ( receiver ( lambda ( x) < 1427194740 933901 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: SCRATCH CHICKEN < 1427196368 134633 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1427196611 837441 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c JOIN :#esoteric < 1427196687 410055 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1427197155 182471 :Tritonio!~tr@2a04:1980:3100:1aac:92e2:baff:fe42:f24c QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427197573 230998 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427197697 806131 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427198019 858749 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1427198030 977929 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a4c6f4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1427200381 764928 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427202132 7891 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427202770 138473 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1427203982 770851 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427204337 777906 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fun fact < 1427204340 998777 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) < 1427204457 991028 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like Standard ML < 1427204527 487273 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was my assumption < 1427204532 41895 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Ngevd < 1427204533 729283 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/j汣! ŕElD P3A5BJ.Uj%{c. ]4IjmVA0"SFDI1b}aVMd[ 9.VfAp(/#ͷJcXlzɊe:;qn \ ȪJo](*BE}Io,;Hy_X@;sݿ!urnk!00`ZD(T⩟ЧCO_J0ۻ < 1427204610 116246 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I am going to be all boring and switch to the three-letter nick I have registered that is just my initials < 1427204737 515477 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rot13 taneb ngevd < 1427204738 512506 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnaro atriq < 1427204749 923858 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :triq-y < 1427204773 585350 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am kind of glad all 4 of those are vaguely pronouncable < 1427204807 836129 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leading ŋ is kinda tricky to pronounce < 1427204820 891193 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rot13 firefly effilry < 1427204821 858978 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sversyl rssvyel < 1427204848 973588 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I manage it somehow < 1427204872 747762 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rot13 ygodypt < 1427204873 766808 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ltbqlcg < 1427204889 132362 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's terrible. < 1427204930 652928 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how can a video encoder use two gigabytes of memory? < 1427204930 799148 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ( inherently)? because i don't know < 1427204935 125349 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1427204944 120673 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1427204949 566415 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1427204949 568328 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1427204956 322557 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot isn't infallible < 1427204956 656894 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: well it tastes bad. they should know better then the movie list two friends of mine and i are in completely different places in the template to be nothing in the rules < 1427204998 199746 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who runs a fungot-like channel-regular imitation bot in another channel < 1427204998 437167 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it's not my fault, i believe.) hmm... long digression, guys!". < 1427205151 500906 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does USD form a module over the ring of 100ths of integers? < 1427205193 379637 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus exchange rates form a homomorphism! < 1427205271 481926 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of < 1427206354 519398 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1427206769 807547 :zadock!~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro JOIN :#esoteric < 1427209207 946237 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.88 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427210933 669583 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.78.88 QUIT :Quit: Going, going, gone. < 1427212679 317669 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tvqocffmliobhlyt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1427213824 724236 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :dhvagbcvn   < 1427213961 562453 :zadock!~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1427214046 630300 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1427214826 762425 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1427215225 317130 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1427215965 377099 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91-rdmsoft [XULRunner 32.0.3/20140923175406] < 1427216142 641651 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody working on an interesting esolang? < 1427216155 144567 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... uhm.. has functions and some way of #include? < 1427216167 903006 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anybode worked on one? < 1427216173 556191 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably with an implementation available < 1427216319 736035 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1427216567 544986 :lleu!~gnomebad@158.223.178.117 QUIT :Changing host < 1427216567 558147 :lleu!~gnomebad@unaffiliated/lleu JOIN :#esoteric < 1427216798 777662 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427217602 645362 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1427218525 129704 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa JOIN :#esoteric < 1427218653 923828 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, one of things I've never liked about monads is that people are apt to talk about "THE list monad" as if there is only monad that could be sensibly applied to lists < 1427218666 908002 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think i just figured out why this happens < 1427218671 749697 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural transformations < 1427218673 779550 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right? < 1427218703 224188 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is only one monad < 1427218749 234225 :g2watson!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1427218761 162232 :g2watson!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu NICK :orin < 1427218975 621965 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd ask on #haskell but i half-expect to be talked down to, there < 1427219009 169469 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI Phantom_Hoover HOW'S YOUR BLOG HOW'S BITCOIN < 1427219014 431929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not true for every type < 1427219020 380164 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is true for lists though < 1427219052 131983 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: wait < 1427219054 125118 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so it's just that "the X monad" is "the monad for X that seems to make the most sense to the most people"? < 1427219054 251365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fix that. < 1427219087 635802 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there. fixed. < 1427219104 157210 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :er thanks mroman < 1427219110 821546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there is only one list monad < 1427219114 409983 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1427219116 979350 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1427219126 438564 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427219128 728933 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the other list monads :D? < 1427219145 328122 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but generally "the X monad" is going to mean the monad that X actually has an instance for, so yeah. < 1427219168 437512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: or, well. < 1427219177 716090 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427219178 992228 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1427219196 534319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: okay, let's put it this way: "the State monad" doesn't mean "the monad that State is", "State" there implicitly carries the semantics we associate with it < 1427219199 427754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just the type itself < 1427219225 70510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: just like "the ring " in mathematics < 1427219249 450877 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, no idea on either front < 1427219259 64878 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apologize for not knowing that the list object only has one possible monad (if that's true) < 1427219326 709582 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a monad a mathematical thing < 1427219357 855196 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1427219381 893855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a concept taken from the academic study of the austro-hungarian empire's administrative structure < 1427219432 561979 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the haskell-guys seem to have that opinion that you can't define another monad, yes. < 1427219439 196182 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just asking which link to click on wikipedia's biguation page? < 1427219448 440476 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a trivial one? < 1427219451 375531 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, whatstheword < 1427219472 771566 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :longerwordthatbasicallymeanstrivial < 1427219522 742478 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sre we talking about "Monad (category theory)" or "Monad (functional programming)" < 1427219528 737722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the trivial monad for an arbitrary type? < 1427219543 981208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, they're the same thing < 1427219545 64123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1427219557 262958 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pathological" except with the connotation of also trivial < 1427219578 707151 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway n/m question about general usage of word answered thank you very much < 1427219622 761683 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, degenerate? < 1427219629 689245 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BING thank you < 1427219637 680675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hi thanks to a dmm comic i realized what chrysoberyl means :P < 1427219641 994765 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.71.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427219663 696085 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, there is also a word you used years ago that i've been meaning to ask you about (but now i have the channel logs so i can probably find it by grepping) < 1427219668 918386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(davd morgan-mar) < 1427219673 179113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+i < 1427219691 762909 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427219746 808468 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, there are no degenerate list monads? the usual one is unique? < 1427219768 367285 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a degenerate list monad be? < 1427219776 469656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe could count as one... < 1427219783 562353 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i feel like such a nerd since i learned it through, um, gemology < 1427219805 702788 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a webcomic < 1427219853 54900 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i _actually_ learned it from wikipedia's article, but the comic pointed me there < 1427219935 701469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder if... < 1427219950 639970 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi chris. 'sbeen a while. anything new for us? < 1427219987 227014 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: hi < 1427219990 902500 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1427219992 221278 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's new < 1427220001 466694 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... no. < 1427220010 893013 :zadock!~zadock@81.180.210.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427220032 774262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i am not sure whether the usual Monad is the only possible one for [] but i wouldn't be extremely surprised. maybe something that permutes elements could also work, but that wouldn't be "degenerate" as such < 1427220062 893077 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't have to be strictly "degenerate" or any other adjective; just has to exist < 1427220093 409206 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :to distinguish "the usual list monad" vs "the unique list monad" which is (apparently) what i care about < 1427220102 754576 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :today < 1427220106 236874 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: ^^^ that's new < 1427220122 915208 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont understand it myself < 1427220234 252508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that the ZipList Applicative cannot be extended to a Monad is a bit subtle, so to prove it even more generally... < 1427220391 278422 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can if all lists are infinite, but then you're using different lists < 1427220410 214754 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it also can if all lists have the same length < 1427220417 907567 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well < 1427220425 877386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you use a different return < 1427220616 76639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is the list monad unique" doesn't seem to give any sensible google hits < 1427220683 640596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1427220683 751951 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ < 1427220684 78988 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 | c.c.c |  ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´69   | c.c.c |   `\o/´69  ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | < 1427220684 182686 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69/<  c.c  >\ /< |   |     >\ c.c /|     |    /< |/^\ c.c /| < 1427220684 731649 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                  /`\              (_|¯`¯|_) < 1427220684 871380 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                (_| |_)                  < 1427220725 170657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(belated demonstration) < 1427220925 661745 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:e038:be9e:ae3:daed QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427220984 854244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does USD form a module over the ring of 100ths of integers? <-- 100ths of integers isn't closed under multiplication < 1427221145 849134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it is true for lists though <-- is there a proof around? < 1427221165 72664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would of course give the ZipList thing as a corollary < 1427221237 299406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well probably not < 1427221253 894364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just believe it anyway < 1427221293 505736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the State s monad mentioned is one example where it's definitely not unique: the type is isomorphic to ReaderT s (Writer s) which has a completely different instance < 1427221296 127710 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427221358 894330 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also WriterT s (Reader s), although i think those two _are_ isomorphic. < 1427221360 374324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1427221368 99413 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and s must be a Monoid. < 1427221385 23200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT s (Reader s) < 1427221385 136336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plugin `unmtl' failed with: `WriterT s (Reader s)' is not applied to enough arguments, giving `/\A. (Reader s) (A, s)' < 1427221393 409702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl WriterT s (Reader s) a < 1427221393 461714 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reader s) (a, s) < 1427221399 274314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1427221431 572673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl ReaderT s (Writer s) a < 1427221431 727602 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s -> (Writer s) a < 1427221454 112757 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i doing something wrong or doesn't it know about those < 1427221462 768435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@unmtl Writer s a < 1427221462 868834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, s) < 1427221500 337909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ @unmtl @unmtl WriterT s (Reader s) a < 1427221500 339320 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Reader s) (a, s) < 1427221501 141994 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427221525 981229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ಠ_ಠ < 1427221526 151804 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69¯|¯⌠ < 1427221526 199013 :myndzi!myndzi@tetrisguide.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69/`\| < 1427221531 186371 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like it doesn't know that (a b) c is a b c < 1427221567 12909 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's holding up ghc-7.10.1 now? < 1427221591 521039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it post the deadline? < 1427221664 656333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm march 20 so yes < 1427221679 727858 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, last Friday, I thought. < 1427221703 191220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all tickets are gone from https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Status/GHC-7.10.1 < 1427221703 241551 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway they're tweaking release notes, so there's some hope... < 1427221876 802861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*although i think those two _are_ isomorphic as monads < 1427222129 169519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they fix your bug < 1427222160 536837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and yeah I know State wasn't unique in that sense < 1427222178 734466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: though to be fair that requires Monoid s < 1427222180 505222 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the typeable kind bug has been fixed yes < 1427222192 26388 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is probably no other monad *parametric* in s? < 1427222197 841807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than state < 1427222206 634525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1427222215 865623 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random question to anyone who knows: What is the best (quality/file size ratio) lossy audio format? mp3 or ogg? Or doesn't it matter as long as you use a good encoder and reasonable parameters? < 1427222215 890260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1427222220 1613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can just pick the "right" one all the time < 1427222221 402959 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1427222228 188657 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you'd still need s to have an element < 1427222243 674268 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: opus < 1427222254 876624 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(successor of vorbis) < 1427222258 794162 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, never heard of that, doubt the player on my phone supports that though < 1427222262 674002 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :will try it I guess < 1427222264 774836 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably rockbox or something does < 1427222268 772983 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that no < 1427222294 339379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorbis handles artifacts better than mp3, at least, so at low bitrate... < 1427222305 489336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably LAME is so good that at the kind of bitrates you'd expect to use these days it doesn't matter < 1427222310 622690 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also AAC < 1427222313 817671 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I'm rather attached to PowerAmp, the library search and management aspect of it is unparalleled on phones (of what I tried so far) < 1427222319 422409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strictly better than both mp3 and vorbis probably < 1427222326 2212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe?) < 1427222328 403662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't really know) < 1427222333 755333 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1427222340 33227 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mp3 is fine unless you have really good speakers < 1427222357 912050 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use anything it doesn't matter you won't hear any artifacts with reasonable settings < 1427222379 927831 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: actually mp3 is transparent no matter what speakers you have with a good encoder/settings and a not-totally-pathological sample < 1427222388 93834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, well I have the music in flac currently, which is just a waste of space, so I need to convert it to something. Might as well go for the best one then. < 1427222397 54008 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please feel free to publish ABX results contradicting this) < 1427222413 712616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(please don't feel free to tell me lossless "just sounds better" without them) < 1427222453 675560 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the only reason to use lossless from what I understand if you need to process it (as you would in a studio after recording the music) < 1427222459 392179 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any music that isn't mp3 so I have no data. My father *claims* that vinyl is best < 1427222474 141816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hm i think i may have a very degenerate monad that works for _finite length_ lists. < 1427222510 511144 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your father either doesn't understand audio at all, or just likes the specific distortion and artifacts caused by vinyl < 1427222514 41763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, I personally hate the typical vinyl sound, it doesn't sound as clear as a CD in general. Though since it is analogue it technically has more information. < 1427222520 627448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and in particular the evolving nature of them as you listen to a record over time) < 1427222523 618339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is fine < 1427222541 717694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can capture any given play of a vinyl just fine in digital audio and play that back and it'll sound just as good < 1427222549 345015 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he just likes the music that came out in the days of vinyl < 1427222554 964646 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1427222563 586135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and vinyl sometimes has better mastering than CD releases < 1427222571 93169 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more dynamic range etc. < 1427222572 446835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it of course sounds a lot better < 1427222616 433503 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think i know what you mean, vinyl records are quieter < 1427222625 921638 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think the sheet music sounds superior to all of these < 1427222630 821615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :return x = [x]; [x] >>= f = f x; l >>= f | all ((==1).length) l' = concat l | otherwise = [] where l' = map f l < 1427222637 487509 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a quick primer on digital audio in terms of how sampling and analogue vs. digital etc. works, https://www.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html is nice < 1427222651 281953 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no pesky acoustics getting in between you and the pure music < 1427222658 133816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*concat l' < 1427222666 52800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: yeah (not always. sometimes they just use the exact same master they were going to use for the CD and press it to vinyl. except it gets actually more distorted by the processing needed to be able to put it on vinyl) < 1427222704 490540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, most people are never even going to notice artifacts in an even 128 kbps MP3 encoded with a good version of LAME < 1427222717 293339 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like lossless audio but just because I'm obsessive, not because it is actually better for me in any way whatsoever. < 1427222720 442120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would they not add the most dynamic range they can? Seems stupid to not make use of the entire spectrum. And surely CD audio has enough dynamic range for anything... < 1427222741 838460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well I can't summarise the loudness war in a single IRC line < 1427222745 573027 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well anything non-pathological < 1427222747 674310 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because WE LIKE IT LOUD DUDURDUDUR < 1427222751 228069 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I thought that was just radio... < 1427222755 412540 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not CDs < 1427222758 479753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it affects CD mastering < 1427222759 6112 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-azcjaxswpbjzzqjp QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1427222768 646525 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? It makes little sense there < 1427222779 118440 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read the wikipedia article or something >_> < 1427222785 717844 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1427222795 198304 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1427222828 277391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's also not 100% objectively terrible, really, it produces a certain sound. lots of compression is obviously wildly inappropriate for certain music, though.) < 1427222830 335244 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so, I'm probably going for lame, since I remember there was/is an issue with cover art in ogg using PowerAmp. < 1427222857 461176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1427222863 149381 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use one of the --preset options and leave it at that < 1427222866 69401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the default should be just fine) < 1427222873 719095 :heroux!~heroux@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-zytdhssobragbavx JOIN :#esoteric < 1427222903 174853 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would like a feature to do compression up to a certain minimum level on the fly. That would be useful when feeding music into the car stereo while driving and you hit a quiet piece you can't hear about the engine. And when you turn it up and it gets to a loud section you suddenly can't hear the car engine instead < 1427222910 932458 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :--preset medium if you want to save some space with most likely no perceptible loss of quality, --preset standard if you want some kind of stronger transparency guarantee < 1427222934 91673 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said "good version" of lame < 1427222935 566619 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ lame --version < 1427222935 644505 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME 64bits version 3.99.5 (http://lame.sf.net) < 1427222936 122941 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1427222944 573528 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I try to update it < 1427222952 596079 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is debian stable after all < 1427222996 387552 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well Ubuntu 14.04 LTS has the same version. So screw it < 1427223000 117459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"anything from the last decade" < 1427223024 16220 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah this is the last version < 1427223028 200594 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean that in the Old Days mp3s actually did suck, because all the encoders did. < 1427223045 957467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you actually did need super-high bitrates to get reasonable results. < 1427223053 606017 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, a package where debian stable has the current version < 1427223068 113712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf that version was released over three years ago < 1427223072 203737 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that why loudr still provides 320 kbps MP3 download... < 1427223078 799908 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME is one of those programs that is pretty much complete < 1427223091 204744 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no that's just because people want them < 1427223113 400071 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I would prefer VBR, bandcamp has that iirc, it is a bit smaller... < 1427223125 774256 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but people see 320 and think "that's the maximum, it must be better". < 1427223136 422192 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :loudr just provides 320, FLAC and apple lossless < 1427223161 99999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. that makes them look higher quality than saying "~190 kbps" and it's also simpler. < 1427223178 990816 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm too lazy to convert to something sane (in which case you should probably start with lossless anyway?) < 1427223181 261226 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually get my music from youtube so my perceptions might be ... pedestrian < 1427223191 77865 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, listening to music is a subjective psychological experience. so if people like their placebos, then cool. < 1427223204 972924 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually prefer bandcamp as a platform when the music is available there < 1427223211 599162 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1427223212 596280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I wouldn't transcode but you could probably do it without losing too much if you needed to save space < 1427223224 633420 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually can't tell the difference between a CD and the ipepd mp3 < 1427223229 123495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too much" = "anything noticeable", I guess. I don't know how bad transcodes really are with decent source material and settings. < 1427223252 14843 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I have a 64 GB memory card in my phone, 17 GB of that is music, about 5 is various other stuff, and the rest is free < 1427223258 438940 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not quite hurting for space yet < 1427223294 659428 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also covert art embedding is really stupid. Because that will be the same across an album. And now you have 10+ copies of the same image < 1427223308 823937 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can just put cover.jpg or album.jpg or whatever the names people use are in the same folder < 1427223312 240725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that usually works? < 1427223312 760855 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, On the other hand, cover.jpg files show up in the bloody album app on the phone < 1427223321 60856 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the cover is going to be smaller than the audio data :P < 1427223346 243024 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure, but this album has 1500x1500 png cover art embedded! < 1427223349 778521 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reduce the cover art to 64x64 and put it in < 1427223351 256800 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is pretty stupid < 1427223379 300581 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, A bit more than that given the screen. I usually go for 500x500, that works well when blown up on the lock screen as well < 1427223420 803666 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes I have seen <10 MB music files with cover art of 2 MB < 1427223454 866822 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1427223520 260991 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... < 1427223521 602281 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :RECOMMENDED: < 1427223521 602974 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : lame -V2 input.wav output.mp3 < 1427223529 531884 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not recommending --preset in --help? < 1427223558 456997 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1427223573 904632 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaat... lame can't read flac? How annoying, oggenc can iirc < 1427223601 809798 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :convert to wav first? < 1427223609 57327 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, but that is annoying. < 1427223621 256955 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -iname '*.flac' -print0 | xargs -0 -n1 -P4 lame -V2 has a certain beauty < 1427223631 343729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -V2 is --preset standard < 1427223634 271888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1427223659 214583 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=LAME#Recommended_encoder_settings < 1427223667 376568 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to convert to wav without touching ffmpeg (spending 10 hours reading man page) < 1427223677 794499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sox maybe < 1427223692 92820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh though I would just use one of the three presets in http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=LAME#Technical_information that aren't the 320 one < 1427223699 308124 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, V0, V2 or V4 < 1427223722 177410 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use avconv (ffmpeg's new name) for a lot of stuff < 1427223724 579614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :twiddling any more nobs than a -V switch is pointless and harmful, anyway < 1427223737 456607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: that is a very flamewarry way of describing the ffmpeg/libav split :P < 1427223737 944292 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, avconv is not ffmpeg's new name. That is a fork and what not < 1427223742 579825 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think Debian is switching back to ffmpeg?) < 1427223752 151934 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I heard that too elliott < 1427223764 256736 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I always had issues with avconv compared to real ffmpeg < 1427223778 220272 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I use it for taking out pieces of a video < 1427223804 255184 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is "politics.exe" < 1427223816 675395 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it definitely can be used for that. But it is a swiss army knife, and I don't use it enough to remember the complicated syntax < 1427223834 344376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffmpeg/avconv should just use the LAME library, anyway < 1427223842 214540 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it almost certainly does < 1427223848 641248 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does USD form a module over the ring of 100ths of integers? <-- 100ths of integers isn't closed under multiplication <-- bah, foiled again < 1427223851 929401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: flac can decode to stdout btw < 1427223856 745643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can probably just pipe that into lame < 1427223859 561073 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc) < 1427223894 883274 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then I will have to deal with messy file names with space. Also parallelizing it would be annoying < 1427223912 36626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1427223917 361458 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, xargs -P < 1427223935 138920 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this about filenames < 1427223943 372305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mean flac ... filename | lame ... rather than lame ... filename < 1427223976 375550 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, sure, but that means lame doesn't auto-set a reasonable output file name based on input, which it does when just provided a file name < 1427223986 540905 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm just fascinated that it seems to be an open(ish) question < 1427224002 894940 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in *.flac; do sox "${i}" "${i/.flac/.wav}"; done # not parallel, but quite fast < 1427224008 179755 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -iname '*.wav' -print0 | xargs -0 -n1 -P4 lame -V2 # speeeed < 1427224027 652416 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I could see the Maybe monad being unique < 1427224041 457949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not so much an open question as nobody has bothered writing it up, as far as [] goes, I think < 1427224046 901821 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal how many cores do you have??? < 1427224052 200536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those things that's "just obvious" < 1427224054 376513 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, 4 < 1427224058 109946 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :has someone found http://blog.jle.im/entry/a-non-unique-monad-instance yet? < 1427224059 729053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I am proved wrong I will eat several hats < 1427224062 219074 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, which is why I used -P4 < 1427224066 328923 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1427224073 35709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah not all types have a unique monad instance < 1427224080 272921 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though some of them have them unique up to a choice of monoid or such, I suspect < 1427224087 772604 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :then with 2 programs per run, use P2? < 1427224090 448022 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Though .wav lost the metadata, of course < 1427224098 106306 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that can be copied < 1427224106 635606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: for something like State, the thing is that we associate semantics with State s a beyond just Thing s a = s -> (a, s) < 1427224132 315182 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when we say "the State monad", we're bringing the intended semantics in, whereas "the Thing monad" would be legitimately ambiguous < 1427224383 310346 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,) Integer has multiple valid Monad instances < 1427224399 722583 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eg, the Sum writer, the Product writer < 1427224416 331838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I tried out the Android photosphere and panorama things. But the subject matter was such that you can't really judge stitching quality or anything. < 1427224417 890603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1427224422 746023 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that falls under "unique up to a choice of monoid" < 1427224473 199467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1427224505 257614 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, I missed the goalposts moving < 1427224523 321472 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hehe < 1427224527 965349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is strange, I'm using X11 forwarding, and a bloody wine program runs better over it than a qt program < 1427224528 780324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I never claimed that every type has a unique monad instance < 1427224535 688195 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that counterexample from the start < 1427224554 348942 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt is probably poorly written then < 1427224555 462167 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: This is directly out of the device: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-pano_20150321_221800.jpg -- I think you could stitch that up pretty much as badly as you like and it still wouldn't be too noticeable. < 1427224561 563470 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that doesn't surprise me < 1427224563 369833 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, howabout "Sum Integer -> (Sum Integer, a)" has a more interesting non-uniqueness < 1427224568 203371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wine's UI stuff is a lot simpler < 1427224572 750350 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true < 1427224579 541140 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, State monad and composition of Reader and Writer < 1427224589 106800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and also I suspect Qt don't care about X11 forwarding < 1427224597 633466 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's unpleasant and Wayland < 1427224618 591458 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think this qt is too old. Thought it is probably PyQt as well on top of everything < 1427224636 122693 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, there's a noticeable jagged edge in the pillar in front of the stage.) < 1427224641 340473 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of audio codecs I found http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html to be a good read < 1427224654 686861 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm forwarding from debian stable, I doubt it is too waylandish yet < 1427224679 183839 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone here ever heard of "A Logical Approach to Discrete Math0" < 1427224710 617395 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :by David Gries and F.B Schnieder < 1427224761 167586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I just mean nobody cares about X11 forwarding because that's not how networked GUIs will work under Wayland, which is The Future that everyone is preparing for. < 1427224788 999665 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rapidly becoming the present, really... I think Fedora plans to partially switch next version and then fully switch by default the version after?) < 1427224803 523468 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: hehe, I linked that earlier < 1427224808 403522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right, I'm just trying to quickly access a GUI program on a different computer, and no x11vnc won't work well (because the target screen is like 3 times as big as the laptop I'm at) < 1427224817 198000 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh. < 1427224827 202062 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm what happens to catalyst and the nvidia drivers? < 1427224830 201003 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't get into lossy compression or anything but it's like half of what I know about digital audio < 1427224839 961116 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm no expert!) < 1427224847 162964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you could use xpra < 1427224856 632611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and those drivers do kernel modesetting anyway < 1427224863 380657 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for forwarding? Never heard of it, will look into it < 1427224867 968559 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yes; that's similar to "the ring of reals" thing; when people say that, I know they mean "the usual ring over the reals" even though there are probably others < 1427224870 493584 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you have I told you about xpra before :P < 1427224873 286790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1427224877 973404 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: right < 1427224883 643560 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1427224889 186915 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, are there others? it depends on what you mean by "the reals" < 1427224900 732911 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, i mean, i don't know < 1427224904 923728 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about modesetting? Does that mean the drivers will work out of box for opengl under wayland? < 1427224906 691284 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't mean a set, because there are multiple constructions of the reals and only set theorists care about the difference < 1427224931 207846 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed the user space component (libGL, libGLU and so on) would need updating to work with wayland < 1427224934 327195 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: pretend i said "rationals" if you like :0 < 1427224938 252857 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:) < 1427224940 532154 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically like what "the X" means in category theory -- "we know that all Xs are, say, uniquely isomorphic, so 'the X' just means whichever X you want, because there is only one in the ways we care about" < 1427224941 758271 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought the drivers provided them < 1427224960 140062 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "the reals" probably means "the ordered Archimedean field" < 1427224963 513878 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy jesus "XWayland is an X Server running as a Wayland client" oh god why??? < 1427224976 489053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: so that you can run X11 applications on a Wayland desktop? < 1427224996 198381 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, backward compatibility? < 1427225002 766965 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we need to redirect everyhtinh thru another program!?!?? < 1427225002 973156 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do nerds get so worked up about simple things... it's literally just software, chill :p < 1427225040 165604 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I should try that response at work :D < 1427225078 438484 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: ok, since you must be an expert to know how obviously unreasonable this is, what would you do? < 1427225083 322238 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are not meeting the real time scheduling deadline!" "It's literally just software, chill :p" < 1427225135 986286 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes I work on real time control software, partly safety critical as in human lives, partly just "we lose a lot of money if it doesn't work") < 1427225181 388567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully the level of discourse at your workplace is slightly higher than holy jesus oh god why < 1427225190 110545 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I would have the new display thingy support the old API directly. < 1427225201 946271 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: that's not how it works. X11 is a network protocol < 1427225223 717543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the whole point is to drop the cruft of the X11 protocol from the core display server. < 1427225238 242375 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, multiple libraries are used to access X11 servers. e.g. Xlib and XCB.) < 1427225266 934095 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there's not really such a thing as "the Wayland server". < 1427225282 503737 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just Wayland compositors, which are relatively simple to write, because they don't have to do much. < 1427225297 750505 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but you knew all this before dismissing it, right? < 1427225303 716640 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes, obviously. Though missing two scheduling deadlines in a row (or more than x in y, which I don't remember on the top of my head) will trigger an emergency stop. So that is probably not the worst way for stuff to fail in. And it failed in the lab (with simulated actuations) like that of course at some point or other < 1427225323 700066 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my key issue here is "will this change cause my stuff to run slower or possibly not work?" and the answer seems to be "yes" < 1427225326 373625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: please don't get me killed :P < 1427225339 290530 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you work in a mine? < 1427225372 417634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: I don't see any reason for a non-negligible speed penalty. also, GTK and Qt and SDL and ... support Wayland natively, so most things will not go through the X11 forwarding soon enough. < 1427225387 431000 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like pulseaudio caused problems for liek 5 years before is worked < 1427225390 847575 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you don't work in one, then you are probably safe from me at least. < 1427225396 627638 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, also, that's the point (when you just start making general statements about structures) where I usually get lost :) < 1427225401 344571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the current default GNOME Wayland setup actually uses XWayland for all the applications rather than native Wayland and it works just fine. < 1427225408 413174 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, good evening, all < 1427225410 310811 :cpressey!~cpressey@35.87.2.81.in-addr.arpa QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1427225412 119574 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the overhead should be roughly nothing < 1427225419 543931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's not so much an open question as nobody has bothered writing it up, as far as [] goes, I think <-- did you see my finite length only counterexample above < 1427225427 455197 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're just looking for an excuse to complain though so whatever < 1427225429 897454 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh I didn't < 1427225429 898102 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about gaming performance through XWayland though? < 1427225442 839615 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it's still going to be using GL, right < 1427225458 534129 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maaaaybe there'll be one additional copy? < 1427225463 260017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure, I think there might not be < 1427225464 956613 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, input lag though? < 1427225470 456349 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1427225477 396661 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like xwayland is some huge bulky thing < 1427225479 454428 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, an extra layer < 1427225481 395149 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1427225489 390690 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: essentially I'm aware that ANY change to software tends to cause users problems (NEW probles which don't have workarounds yet) < 1427225495 680595 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there weren't extra layers before... < 1427225496 908502 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like running an X11 server except instead of talking to graphicsy KMS stuff directly it talks to a wayland compositor < 1427225512 183015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: ok. then I suggest running debian stable < 1427225515 356300 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never updating it < 1427225540 640321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that is a strange instance < 1427225540 907702 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run Xubuntu stable and I rarely update it < 1427225552 343652 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: great. then you don't have to complain about changes because you won't get them < 1427225553 848316 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also btw, real time systems are so nice to work with, you never see a GUI freeze up. The system just flows nicely all the time, irrespective of load. I'm seriously considering switching to a rt-patch kernel... < 1427225562 889142 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my personal computer I mean < 1427225578 719563 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, that won't solve all of it of course < 1427225579 615942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I could never work on anything directly connected to people's lives :/ < 1427225644 306602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good testing and enough safety layers that if any one of the layers fail everything will stop in a safe way is the key to good sleep while programming real time systems < 1427225686 772785 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hardware interlocks for the really critical parts of course. < 1427225759 109098 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't posix_madvise any cars I am in < 1427225779 909580 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, If someone hits the emergency stop button, that breaks a constant current and electrically cuts off the output. Then the control software is informed of this, but it is not involved in actually halting the actuations. This is what people refer to as fail-safe < 1427225790 816460 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one specific example of fail safe < 1427225801 421362 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do cars even use UNIX? < 1427225816 987459 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1427225825 828015 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an expensive car probably has a couple of linux systems in it these days I think < 1427225830 861813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but not for anything safety-critical) < 1427225836 184877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, maybe not "probably" < 1427225838 131924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of them do < 1427225853 602106 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there may be real time linux systems, but the brakes won't be running on Linux < 1427225858 334214 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1427225859 647759 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The elevator in a hotel I was in recently had this thing where, for maybe 10-15% of trips, it started moving without closing the doors, went up for maybe a cm or two, then fell back and stopped; then closed the doors and did the normal thing. < 1427225863 639647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It felt exactly like a hardware interlock stopping the software from doing a stupid thing, and didn't really leave me at ease. < 1427225869 362749 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was thinking for, like, in-car touchscreen type things. < 1427225871 786972 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nobody has safety certified real time linux, that is the reason for that < 1427225872 880247 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : so "the reals" probably means "the ordered Archimedean field" <-- *+complete < 1427225882 941527 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I knew I was forgetting something < 1427225923 118333 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, we use real time linux for some modules, but not for the modules which have been deemed safety critical. They run on some expensive certified RTOS. < 1427225948 126471 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which begs the question... Which code is actually most well tested? That expensive RTOS, or Linux < 1427225954 227695 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once saw a restaurant sign booting up... it was, for unfathomable reasons, RedHat. < 1427225958 332570 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/researchers-hack-cars-to-remotely-control-steering-and-brakes-8733723.html < 1427225960 23700 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is certified yes, but what does that actually mean? < 1427225965 28528 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, scared yet? < 1427225993 57579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: about as scared as always under late capitalism < 1427225993 846295 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who certifies it? < 1427226019 58381 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I can almost guarantee it is not formally verified in most cases. Not an entire OS. Specific algorithms maybe. < 1427226085 602252 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, I wonder if the button to lock/unlock the car doors on the key is secure, it probably isn't using high end RSA keys, lets put it like that... < 1427226102 138135 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the car, a replay attack might work < 1427226111 285844 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I like that "era name": `In 2015, as the Late Capitalism Era continued to smolder...' < 1427226113 963510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you used one of those fancy RNG card things for banks < 1427226122 813787 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1427226130 447409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you press a button and you put in the number it gives you into your bank's website < 1427226133 440409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do a wire transfer < 1427226135 699085 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wondered exactly how they work < 1427226143 57409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll spit out like 5 numbers in a minute before telling you to wait for the next one < 1427226149 774889 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never heard of such thing < 1427226151 54117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of many schemes you could use < 1427226152 604279 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I log in using my debit card, which I put into a card reader with a small display and a numpad < 1427226166 986046 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that is challenge reply < 1427226178 460466 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secure enough? Maybe, who knows... < 1427226180 517835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, the card I am talking about is not networked at all < 1427226189 355833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just a button and a display < 1427226211 373270 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: giant one-time pad on flash memory? < 1427226213 636036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all* communication must necessarily be one-time, before the card is sent out to the customer < 1427226222 275387 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well nor is the one I'm using. I get a 9 digit code on my screen, type it into the card reader. < 1427226234 244953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: maybe... the bank would have to store all the random data though < 1427226236 292533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, quite similar to this one https://gfs.nb.se/privat/bilder/ovrigt/card_reader_logincard.jpg < 1427226253 996826 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: it could just store a seed, but seeking to the "next" number might be slow < 1427226256 410469 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then the card PIN, and I get a 9 digit replay code < 1427226256 911578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1427226257 535338 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said I can imagine tons of systems < 1427226270 139957 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I wonder which one is actually used < 1427226310 99167 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about these: http://www.tokenguard.com/images/tokens/SID700.gif I have that for VPN to work, it gives a new code every 30 seconds... But how do they keep the clock synced? < 1427226325 999140 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right, it is that kind of thing < 1427226332 525559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1427226346 856783 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the thing that uses dual ec drbg because of the nsa < 1427226349 467976 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahahahahahahahahaha < 1427226361 219864 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm maybe? It looks quite similar at least < 1427226375 960878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay no it doesn't use it < 1427226377 891134 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just other RSA stuff < 1427226381 402303 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1427226390 92515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The RSA SecurID token is a rather old, already broken and a rather expensive solution." hm < 1427226394 727713 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway one way to do it could be like... < 1427226403 718866 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you need more than just that one though, password as well < 1427226407 463743 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a key shared by the bank and your card < 1427226420 997103 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a SecurID at Nokia. < 1427226421 506182 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for https://gfs.nb.se/privat/bilder/ovrigt/card_reader_logincard.jpg you mean? < 1427226427 936305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the card spits out some jumbling of the key with the current minute you're in, and an index < 1427226432 768039 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like "the Nth code of the minute") < 1427226443 239446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then your bank just probes that space < 1427226444 378565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1427226447 642409 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually rate-limited though < 1427226463 590894 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like pressing it repeatedly gets you fewer codes in a minute than pressing it slowly over the course of the minute? I'm not sure < 1427226471 820255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no for the thing I'm talking about < 1427226473 876832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: that is a strange instance <-- basically i define everything to be [] except what the first and second monad laws and fmap law force not to be < 1427226478 737299 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry I don't care about your bank's system at all :p < 1427226479 775143 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just noticed that there are both edirc and erdic o_O < 1427226517 698789 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the one I have is rate limited and the challenge is time limited in it's validity, but not time limited in the generation algorithm (I tried the same challenge twice with a few minutes in between on the device, gave the same response) < 1427226548 121858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: there used to be both newsham and news-ham but that was my fault. < 1427226552 76947 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, a challenge is only valid for one entry on the website though < 1427226555 5264 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1427226576 782686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the bank account has a card reader with three different functions. One is plain identification, one a challenge-response and the last one a sign-a-payment thing. They differ in how many things you need to type in. < 1427226612 550396 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :izabera: it would have been good if you made edirc as a pun on erdic though. < 1427226616 874663 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep < 1427226635 888172 :izabera!~izabera@unaffiliated/izabera PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha erdic it was totally a pun < 1427226663 512085 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there are 4 buttons on the one I have (login, sign, buy and something I don't remember), only ever use two though (login and sign) < 1427226671 126115 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a key pad < 1427226697 580056 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though all are challenge-response based < 1427226724 3163 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "identify" on mine only needs the PIN. < 1427226730 540388 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? Okay < 1427226741 54144 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it is challenge + PIN for every function < 1427226768 673389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR challenge wants one code, and sign a code and a monetary amount. < 1427226789 81056 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though challenge length can vary on a given function depending on what you transfer. Like when I made a bit transfer I had to type in the sum I transferred as well as the usual random numbers < 1427226810 97007 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :big* < 1427226868 889150 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.71.111 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427226892 774859 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.71.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427226962 538703 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a Google account phishing email at my personal (non-gmail) address the other day. < 1427226991 756108 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't very professional, although they had at least copied the logos. < 1427227008 786578 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1427227035 786608 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I assume you use two factor auth for google? < 1427227068 328736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I can't comment, but common sense says that would be a reasonable guess. < 1427227082 465380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that covered under your NDA too < 1427227101 363869 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not explicitly. It's just very generic. < 1427227114 566434 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a lot of sites have been pushing it lately < 1427227137 479548 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1427227165 540087 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :google, github, gandi, linode, launchpad too iirc(?) < 1427227175 995719 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm sure I have seen more offering it < 1427227194 605997 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did bitbucket offer it? I can't remember < 1427227213 159418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do support it for regular Google accounts. I think you can also use a Yubikey: https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/yubikey-neo/ < 1427227233 167607 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to pay for the hardware, that is. < 1427227236 548490 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah probably < 1427227254 279742 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, issue with yubikey iirc, is that it is limited to the number of accounts it can track? < 1427227255 254098 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1427227293 563465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe? I don't know details. < 1427227298 131751 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at Microsoft. < 1427227320 399224 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't have expected, but... < 1427227329 241383 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yubikey supports like a billion things < 1427227339 59902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/ < 1427227348 244951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :even PGP if you buy the right one < 1427227388 700178 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm maybe it was the original one that was fairly limited then < 1427227406 44772 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there is the new U2F thingy < 1427227426 166866 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427227433 461377 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yubikey supports that < 1427227437 980033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they even have one that just does that < 1427227440 317420 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(We're switching our calendars to Exchange... so you can mark appointments as private. Common sense would suggest that this means that the details of the appointment are only visible to yourself. And it seems to be true, as long as you use MS' own clients. But the server happily gives the information out, and the EWS provider for Thunderbird does *not* filter the information of other people's... < 1427227447 199541 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...private appointments...) < 1427227448 744488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for $18 < 1427227467 584238 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yubikey is pretty delightful. < 1427227473 477773 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Does the normal one support it? Then a neo might be worth buying, rather than storing the two factor auth keys on your phone... < 1427227491 576743 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyurl.com/pz5pcje < 1427227492 95222 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that costs 50 < 1427227496 823147 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite a lot < 1427227499 998259 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427227500 926744 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's what MS has to say on this. < 1427227502 273358 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:45c7:74aa:917f:8c54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427227517 824097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I literally linked you a table with all the things the models support. :p < 1427227542 467437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I'm looking at it currently < 1427227555 610921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I would need NFC support, and $50 is quite a bit of money < 1427227666 400058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1427227677 47394 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your salary and how often would you need a new yubikey though < 1427227793 891708 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well depends on if they break backward compatibility and how long the thing lasts < 1427227812 946775 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't and apparently ages. < 1427227837 798045 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it support firmware updates? . o O ( If so, every time you cross the US border and they find it in their security checks :P ) < 1427227849 955838 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1427227852 632248 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Nope. < 1427227873 757527 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's the reason. :) < 1427227911 361177 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well okay, but look at the original standard yubikey, it is fairly limited compared to the neo, and since they don't support firmware upgrades, I believe early neo doesn't support U2F? < 1427227917 985735 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427227921 248327 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Correct. < 1427227939 331825 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1427227940 975950 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com NICK :`^_^v < 1427227957 196138 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: they could probably do enough with just temporary access to it, really < 1427227985 825228 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not going to see new functionality for the thing, but it's not as though support for it's going to suddenly go away. < 1427227987 781151 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of irrelevant though since they could also just demand that you do whatever. < 1427227989 806845 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so that can be considered breaking backward compatibility the day when TOTP is deprecated in favor U2F < 1427228011 332408 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and apparently U2F currently doesn't support NFC < 1427228017 269765 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no login on the phone < 1427228050 674019 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Please note, current U2F standards do not support NFC for mobile devices. For more information, you can access the full U2F Specifications on the FIDO Alliance website." < 1427228066 591056 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably won't be possible to update a NEO to add that support? < 1427228186 861446 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1427228506 418217 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1427228723 113352 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427228751 727061 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm a ubikey neo and putting your ssh keys on it as well would be cool. And client ssl certificate. < 1427228782 386591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh, just make sure you don't lose it < 1427228790 643160 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think you could use password-protected keys there) < 1427228821 119182 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... well you could have a password protected offline copy stored in a bank deposit < 1427228833 275885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something along those lines < 1427228856 922488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that someone would get access to all your ssh accounts just from stealing your key < 1427228913 44107 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: keep it around your neck at all times then < 1427228943 565192 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1427228957 732150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally it would be embedded in your skin and only removable surgically < 1427228967 674153 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these things are waterproof right)?] < 1427228971 94655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let's hope it doesn't have a tracking device in it) < 1427229002 436483 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh shit < 1427229018 783604 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm surely it would be pin protected as well? I think the GPG key variant when the device is acting as a smartcart requires a pin < 1427229027 654825 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :from some googling at least < 1427229037 383724 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's life in our corporatist paradise < 1427229083 909115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe... how do you give the yubikey the pin without giving the computer you're using license to print as many signaturse as it wants < 1427229106 873387 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*signatures < 1427229136 594948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the issue I have is storing keys on my computer, even encrypted, what if the key is being handled in memory at the moment an attack happens < 1427229147 469943 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm true < 1427229173 94308 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need a bulky PIN entry thing < 1427229178 338978 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1427229182 244542 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1427229185 726153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it would still require you to press it < 1427229187 713911 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1427229193 446499 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda yuck to give your computer the PIN < 1427229197 243887 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1427229210 121677 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahem* voice input for digits *ahem* < 1427229214 104874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very good in public. :p < 1427229219 956781 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1427229225 729641 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what they have you working on :P < 1427229226 495155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe try whispering. < 1427229233 351182 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Speaking of which, what if an attack breaks out of the browser sandbox. Then it has control of your X session... And if you have a root terminal open at that point. Ouch < 1427229235 317985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I can't comment, but no. < 1427229274 456556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do remember reading one whisper-related research paper, but I can't recall whether it was about whispering recognition or whispering synthesis. < 1427229287 929279 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you call old versions of google now "google then"? < 1427229288 383979 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :put a touchscreen on it and use handwriting input < 1427229304 735376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think Wayland will be a bit more secure there < 1427229309 784595 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1427229318 180504 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be less bulky but more expensive obviously < 1427229318 803972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it will have more security than X's "none" < 1427229330 993008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; the way people have explained it to me, Wayland will improve on X's security model by having one. < 1427229341 440096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1427229344 217800 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so now you break screen magnifiers and screenshot apps? < 1427229362 81953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no how terrible, we'll have to give like three programs special permissions :p < 1427229371 417730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also password managers where you copy the key means that your key can be spyed on when in the clipboard < 1427229377 220182 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, right < 1427229427 523722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this authentication talk makes me ashamed of not having enabled 2FA for my personal Google account. :/ < 1427229443 684955 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Apparently you can use gpg on yubikey, and you can use a gpg-agent for ssh login, so that way you can use a yubikey for ssh... < 1427229480 307854 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though there is no direct ssh key or ssl client cert support < 1427229625 979978 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I just avoid having anything important on there < 1427229705 808141 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I deal with my bank mostly physically anyway < 1427229822 159711 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is cheap to clone a credit card, expensive to make a mask that looks like me and copy my passport < 1427229854 420035 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although with modern 3d printing... < 1427229868 342482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Here's the other place I did a photosphere thing: http://goo.gl/0SvqVQ < 1427229887 610553 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't see the first one? < 1427229890 651091 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not shown on Google Maps. Why? Pending approval..." they don't like me :/ < 1427229897 676059 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Well, it's the same place as the panorama. < 1427229927 310592 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goo.gl/Wrhs28 < 1427229938 479692 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that thing is hell on my browser on this old laptop? Can't you just link it like a normal image? < 1427229958 108371 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't mind it being a bit distorted < 1427229972 796418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay. < 1427229985 391297 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think it is trying to do GL stuff, this is a core 2 duo with intel graphics, from before when intel graphics were any good < 1427229993 969585 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that I don't have it dumped from the phone yet. < 1427229997 840660 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1427230001 21027 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait < 1427230003 311628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Forgot.) < 1427230008 729629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you can link to the underlying image in Views. < 1427230017 95750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I didn't see any google maps integration in google camera? < 1427230049 500723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah, it's really strange. Apparently you're supposed to be able to "share" it from Photos directly to Maps, but Maps doesn't even show up in the sharing menu. < 1427230064 329465 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how did you upload it to maps? < 1427230074 832574 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the roundhouse? < 1427230093 584733 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a nightclub or a theatre? < 1427230094 710633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The "official" (as in, mentioned in the support group) workaround is to set "full-resolution uploads" on in G+, upload to a G+ post, then go to Views with a regular browser and import it in from "my posts". < 1427230101 104297 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Also I wouldn't want to share it to maps, in any case, I don't get any royalty for it from google... < 1427230106 209477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin: It's a venue, I think it's mostly about music? < 1427230128 102804 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh I actually laughed out loud at that complicated workaround < 1427230166 675730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean, it's just an image, I think you can also just upload it to Views from a computer, and use any means you like to get the image off the phone. Although I don't know if it loses some metadata. < 1427230189 393016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, at least my phone makes a pretty low-res photosphere. < 1427230193 344834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is "Views" with a capital V anyway? < 1427230201 209789 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, so does mine < 1427230217 987955 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And didn't you have a nexus 6? < 1427230227 594487 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess low res is a way to hide the seams < 1427230247 38789 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some google thing... they've switched from prepending a G to just capitalizing everything < 1427230252 610230 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: As far as I can tell, Views is the part of Google Maps that deals with photospheres. The linking of multiple ones into a navigable thing, and the web-viewer, and so on. < 1427230275 482438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-pano_20150321_191802.jpg is the one I had dumped out of the phone, as a regular image. < 1427230276 690870 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is this different than street view? < 1427230299 271804 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, neat, what is that of < 1427230311 461968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.roundhouse.org.uk/ < 1427230320 442129 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some old railway turntable thing, I think. < 1427230324 655846 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :That photosphere thing is cool, how does that work? < 1427230343 264861 :vodkode_!~vodkode@fl-71-49-12-57.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427230347 918472 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, turned into a venue? < 1427230351 339997 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1427230352 499346 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1427230356 991837 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1427230389 469174 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, the phone uses the gyro to keep track of where you are looking and then try to stitch together an image similar to any other panorama < 1427230394 852668 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1427230412 944383 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well probably gyro and compass < 1427230431 781853 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it also shows some guide points to help you get complete coverage < 1427230471 27478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I can download the other photo back out of G+. < 1427230490 193246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"2015 - 1.jpg". What a good file name. < 1427230502 549533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it would be fun to try photo mapping btw, as in using photos to re-create a 3D scene with reasonable textures, it is all the rage nowdays < 1427230559 603421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I even tried that out briefly back in Finland on some buildings of the university campus, but couldn't get a good enough set of photos to make the software work. < 1427230572 897779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-ps.jpg there's the other thing. < 1427230615 802836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, a rather nasty seam in the bridge. They look okayish at a glance, but... < 1427230663 716056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll stick to panotoolsing it up. But admittedly this is more convenient. < 1427230695 434372 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? what software? < 1427230703 471317 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what software to use < 1427230711 412008 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a good set of links somewhere. < 1427230722 51713 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right here. < 1427230728 86814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if they're not dead yet. < 1427230741 964940 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice sphere < 1427230747 942088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I forgot if I uploaded mine < 1427230859 651938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.cornell.edu/~snavely/bundler/ does the basic unsorted-images-to-sparse-3D-point-cloud thing, http://www.di.ens.fr/pmvs/ can take that further into a mesh-and-texture thing, http://www.di.ens.fr/cmvs/ is a computational-cost-reducing trick for it, and http://ccwu.me/vsfm/ is kind of a full toolchain/frontend for it all. < 1427230879 847565 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all typical research code, so at least back when I was trying, getting it to compile was a full evening's job. < 1427230879 848469 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1427230888 265698 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1427230919 27076 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualSFM changelog doesn't include dates, cleverly, so it's hard to tell if it's actually seen any work lately. < 1427230929 641870 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm didn't google research thingy have a phone with stereo cameras that could do this on the fly? < 1427230933 475895 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :project tango? < 1427230937 288180 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that? < 1427230939 753429 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1427230991 253775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember something else vaguely similar too. < 1427231000 125743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a Tested.com video or something. < 1427231019 166990 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1427231034 775718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course Street View does 3D reconstruction, but that's based on the LIDAR stuff. < 1427231067 966781 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1427231078 429900 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a LIDAR unit at the Computer History Museum's self-driving car exhibit. < 1427231087 320300 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually, does it do 3D reconstruction? < 1427231096 153932 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never noticed it < 1427231121 180691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how widely they actually do it. < 1427231134 509713 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, some areas only? < 1427231230 882228 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@65-183-137-193-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1427231285 839257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this vague idea (based entirely on pre-Google knowledge) that the LIDAR data from Street View cars is involved in the 3D buildings of Google Earth (which I guess is now kinda-sorta part of the new web Google Maps). < 1427231295 87131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I could be entirely wrong there. < 1427231312 693128 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D buildings on google maps? Didn't know that < 1427231344 306733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. If you use the new thing, satellite imagery is replaced with something relatively Earth-like. < 1427231362 243464 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1427231368 815647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you only have three levels of tilt (straight from above, and two oblique ones) and the 4 cardinal directions for rotation. < 1427231379 657306 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's all WebGL. < 1427231384 979112 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not like this computer could handle it, Also wouldn't it be limited to areas with street view coverage only? < 1427231411 624048 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's limited to much less than that. Like, major city centres. < 1427231546 374449 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1427231596 618879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helsinki doesn't have 3D buildings (in Maps) at all. < 1427231605 461481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it does in the actual Google Earth. < 1427231608 387274 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1427231639 889548 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does it handle complex building shapes? Like "not a box"? < 1427231653 57006 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's been impressively good, actually. < 1427231668 273769 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder if it based on building plans though < 1427231672 926274 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a funny thing that it's clearly somehow optimized for the view direction. < 1427231682 640458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Possibly just the render aspect.) < 1427231689 998266 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1427231694 803579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you rotate it 90 degrees, it's very... well, it's hard to describe. But wrong-looking. < 1427231705 899118 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm fairly certain that the building outlines on some Swedish maps are, because they are basically identical between different providers. < 1427231707 714097 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it'll fix things up after it loads more stuff. < 1427231746 486910 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this magazine article is right, the 3D buildings in Maps are based on reconstructions from aerial imagery. < 1427231787 925305 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that I don't believe quite < 1427231805 52332 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if so I wonder what something like the Eifel tower would end up looking like < 1427231843 797664 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've had the "landmark" buildings as manually constructed 3D models for quite a while. < 1427231852 146792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt they'll let the autogenerated stuff override that. < 1427231871 90447 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427231873 937611 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1427231887 698237 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but I wonder how the algorithm would handle a building like that < 1427232040 694418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com.au/earth/explore/showcase/3dimagery.html is about the only official thing I can find. < 1427232092 176761 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427232149 207670 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: elliott: I guess an example is "the group over the rationals"; you obviously wouldn't say that because there are obviously 2 "good" candidates. and I'm pretty sure there are an infinite number of others < 1427232195 700272 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric : where * is multiplication and a|b = 2(a+b) I think is a ring, and there would be many more where that came from < 1427232225 221088 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1427232239 829218 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe a ring theorist would say "that's not REALLY different from the standard one" and well, no, it's not very interesting, they're both rings and ring theorists care more about rings than the sets of things that form the rings < 1427232243 447601 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1427232251 270761 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :programmers DO care about the concrete data, a lot. < 1427232272 173675 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just needed to say that. i'll be afk for a bit < 1427232355 845887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, here it finally is. http://google-latlong.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/never-ending-quest-for-perfect-map.html "Since 2006, we’ve had textured 3D buildings in Google Earth, and today we are excited to announce that we will begin adding 3D models to entire metropolitan areas to Google Earth on mobile devices. This is possible thanks to a combination of our new imagery rendering ... < 1427232361 762068 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... techniques and computer vision that let us automatically create 3D cityscapes, complete with buildings, terrain and even landscaping, from 45-degree aerial imagery." < 1427232406 248809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for quality, it's not hard to find places where it's made approximations (for "thin" structures etc.) but it's been better than I expected. < 1427232517 976921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1427232548 846794 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a|b = 2(a+b) doesn't look very associative < 1427232588 798567 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps we should start with the existence of a unit < 1427232811 240125 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is $pos-- while (substr($data, $pos, 1) =~ /[\x80-\xBF]/); okay perl or is there a nicer way of doing that? (The task is to rewind $pos to the start of a unicode character in UTF-8.) < 1427232940 369233 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1427232983 933816 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1427233051 804041 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-157.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :try matching the string up to position $pos against /[\x80-\xBF]*$/ and use length of match < 1427233233 391126 :HMC_A!~motocoin@37.153.97.65 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427233278 379342 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C6F4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1427233306 546132 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so ... substr($data, 0, $pos) =~ /[\x80-\xBF]*$/; $pos = $-[0]; < 1427233485 61463 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, that has an off-by-one error. < 1427233497 459645 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-157.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you want $-[0]-1 < 1427233515 400767 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /.[\x80-\xBF]*$/ < 1427233557 316616 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-157.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is different if the string is all \x80-\xBF]* < 1427233558 182440 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh but what's the value of $-[0] if there was no match...) < 1427233571 288601 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1427233571 538895 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1427233572 748621 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1427233578 489860 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-157.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving out the . ensures a match < 1427233603 344726 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:45c7:74aa:917f:8c54 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1427233621 421360 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-157.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway , the nicest way involves avoiding the need to compute positions in the first place < 1427233626 202552 :^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:45c7:74aa:917f:8c54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427233646 954680 :HMC_A!~motocoin@37.153.97.65 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427233663 306398 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1427233663 307025 :zemhill_!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1427233663 307069 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1427233708 69443 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the ideas < 1427233754 790950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1427233782 489399 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-157.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw! < 1427234078 917169 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how does the 3D reconstruction thing handle stuff like trees I wonder < 1427234095 776056 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're faked. < 1427234108 258505 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no I mean, does it filter them? < 1427234114 979035 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :The research stuff you talked about < 1427234121 767185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that. < 1427234124 98443 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also does it need/make use of geotagged images? < 1427234124 416623 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1427234148 615292 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember some camera app for my phone that could record compass direction as well < 1427234152 840695 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think at least the VisualSFM workflow needs or makes any use of existing geotags. < 1427234192 217393 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1427234230 477093 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I will endeavor to try that stuff out at some point. You said compiling it was tricky? < 1427234239 57561 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1427234300 989613 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then, yes. But I didn't keep any notes. < 1427234304 421420 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this was a while ago? < 1427234317 706139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, at least a year or two. < 1427234327 769219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the "Ubuntu" installation guide on the VisualSFM page -- http://www.10flow.com/2012/08/15/building-visualsfm-on-ubuntu-12-04-precise-pangolin-desktop-64-bit/ -- more or less worked out on Debian. < 1427234348 491405 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1427234363 489960 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1427234377 776780 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It must've been more like three years, because this is the same guide I remember reading, and it's talking about 12.04. < 1427234452 205403 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there was nothing especially difficult, just minor nuisances. The kind of things the Ubuntu guide mentions, though I'm sure its workarounds are not the only possible ones. < 1427234516 229667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you want a feeling of accomplishment, I'd suggest starting with some small physical object that you can walk around and photograph from all angles, and running the thing on that first. < 1427234541 762355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly even including somewhat from above. < 1427234547 251665 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think I uploaded this one before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pjrwlsdckl3wr81/PANO_20150308_132129.jpg?dl=0 < 1427234556 786834 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I tried out that fish eye pano mod < 1427234558 709406 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode* < 1427234603 464401 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I think the main problem with my "huge building not entirely visible from any place" thing was that it couldn't figure out how the pieces fit together, so it made me something like 20 unconnected components that were parts of the building. < 1427234640 439946 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's regular photos and just a fisheye projection for the result, or what? < 1427234651 986023 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I don't mind if the roof is missing, it would be interesting it could accurately reconstruct the view along a street at ground level < 1427234666 718749 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if there are some trees blocking the view every now and then < 1427234676 6733 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is from the google camera app! < 1427234685 560453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! I didn't even know it has that. < 1427234696 109734 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you go to non-sphere panorama and then you switch from landscape mode < 1427234698 908701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualSFM did pieces of different walls for me, it just didn't combine them into a single whole. < 1427234738 852699 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is the [box] ... button you click on, and then you select the circle icon < 1427234742 702122 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh. I didn't even see that menu. < 1427234747 759705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, found it. < 1427234750 420778 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it wasn't really explanatory < 1427234757 726523 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had no idea it was doing fisheye < 1427234767 229904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I first tried it < 1427234789 192478 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what the pillow-shaped thing is? The guide points looked like a 3x3 grid, so just a wideangle thing? < 1427234811 306469 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think so, though I'm not 100% sure < 1427234825 934809 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, by the way, how does the google camera app figure out the lens parameters? < 1427234834 978884 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, the fisheye has a lot of points. < 1427234837 182750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love to figure those out myself for use with hugin < 1427234872 413111 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can optimize for them, up to some degree. < 1427234881 228088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how the stock camera app does it, though. < 1427234927 878028 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is not the stock camera on my phone though < 1427234932 9974 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is why I wonder < 1427234943 286267 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the data in question is not in the normal EXIF data < 1427234950 151527 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike what my real camera gives me < 1427234957 184762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Don't know. < 1427234967 711504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old phone (the N900) put some lens stuff in the EXIF data. < 1427234985 533181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think it was missing some stuff, because Hugin didn't know the focal length multiplier. < 1427234986 707516 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, here is another phone camera image https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8nfprekuyjupby/PANO_20150314_150829.jpg?dl=0 < 1427235004 591900 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :More traditional pano < 1427235016 410534 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427235264 361680 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, so | as I defined it isn't associative. < 1427235301 104930 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is there only one ring over the rationals? < 1427235313 798778 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems so unlikely, somehow < 1427235388 795870 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.189.71.111 QUIT :Quit: Going, going, gone. < 1427235426 48514 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so here is a bunch more panos https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0 < 1427235477 499015 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also a normal photo of amazing ice < 1427235558 638717 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: perhaps there's only one ring over rationals where multiplication is comutive? < 1427235654 523800 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about where a|b = 2*a*b < 1427235674 984947 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is kind of straying from my main point < 1427235722 225437 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i don't remember well enough to put into words at the moment < 1427235737 251958 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fancy. Although the fisheye images kind of look "too perfect" to be realistic fisheye images. < 1427235764 683084 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No chromatic aberration near the outer edge and so on. < 1427235781 836169 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I stand corrected. I do have something new. But it's not terribly esoteric: http://catseye.tc/installation/Matchbox < 1427235798 842435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true < 1427235834 776605 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do you think about the iced branches above the stream? < 1427235848 608393 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it looked more amazing when you were there < 1427236021 371149 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :V. fancy, too. Running water and ice tend to be a good combination. I think there was some photography collection at the Yle (Finnish public broadcasting thing) website once. < 1427236027 935313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ice or snow hereabouts. < 1427236047 253641 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1427236078 359236 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, two more normal images of fancy ice added (from a while ago, might have showed it earlier?) < 1427236353 553850 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ooh found another nice image I haven't uploaded, might have some seams though < 1427236398 889716 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :still uploading though < 1427236421 137104 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok nevermind Wayland is ok... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_%28software%29 < 1427236463 475757 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.64.183 JOIN :#esoteric < 1427236469 968203 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0#lh:null-PANO_20150222_143800.jpg < 1427236546 462668 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :What projection is that? < 1427236582 859421 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :orin, not sure, it is the google camera app photo sphere thingy < 1427236600 446125 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is on the top of a ridge that road goes over, though that isn't clear from the image I think < 1427236623 471328 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the app was confused, because that looks decidedly flat in the image < 1427236635 881513 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the photoshpere is just regular equirectangular image. < 1427236679 972408 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway isn't this ice amazing: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0#lh:null-DSC_0069.JPG < 1427236696 358127 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The aspect ratio is exactly 2, which would make sense for a 360x180 degree equirectangular image, and the top/bottom edge distortions look like that too. < 1427236710 351446 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since both edges are really just points.) < 1427236739 719789 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah is is annoying that you get varying pixel sizes in panoramas < 1427236779 331109 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice ice. No pun intended. < 1427236797 899930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was taking some macro photos of our frozen balcony glasses back in Finland, but haven't had time to put them anywhere. < 1427236814 796133 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is phone camera, not really macro < 1427236827 59164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from the Xperia Z2 < 1427236867 393725 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C6F4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1427236975 638997 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I have an awkward vertical 4K video from my phone here, about 5 seconds. Yeah I don't think I'm very good at videos... < 1427237013 96868 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20150324-20100215_001.jpg this is kind of in the same category, although a bit less frozen. (From 2010, taken with the N900.) < 1427237047 711697 :cpressey!~cpressey@109.144.191.253 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1427237065 508320 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, this 4K video is 149 MB and just 24 seconds long < 1427237069 271713 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not uploading that < 1427237090 840812 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1427237133 289826 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it may be obvious from this image, but the path was really a stream at this point https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eejt7nnbu5ephrq/AAAR-Jrfg0V8nFPwYKG8_VNGa?dl=0#lh:null-DSC_0364.JPG < 1427237144 81477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is also quite a steep slope < 1427237235 949857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took photos of all the Google Android sculptures they have on the lawn. < 1427237248 689717 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should try photo mapping < 1427237266 595926 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in 3D reconstruction < 1427237268 848259 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the statues < 1427237301 59088 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have enough frames for that, didn't really have that in mind. Which is silly, because back in Finland I was wondering where I'd find a nice recognizable shape for a statue. < 1427237305 623539 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also btw, I wonder how accurate that 3D mapping is? Could you reconstruct with a street with meter accuracy? < 1427237324 147741 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1427237346 970377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe next visit. < 1427237348 106098 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't recording video be perfect for this? Just extract the video frames... < 1427237357 658459 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the quality too bad? < 1427237373 253432 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the motion blur problem. < 1427237381 228526 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, true < 1427237397 113889 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could try to filter for non-blurry images < 1427237425 387866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I'm not sure if any of those 4 links I mention explicitly do video, but I'm sure I've seen some stuff related to it. < 1427237432 594612 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1427237482 550063 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first thing (Bundler) is associated with this fancy thing: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/projects/bigsfm/ < 1427237497 229620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about doing large-scale models from large photo datasets that weren't really intended for that purpose. < 1427237528 578615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the VisualSFM workflow is kind of more oriented around you taking a bunch of pictures of a particular thing you want to reconstruct. < 1427237662 201588 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1427237815 760671 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :People having been doing SfM from the Google Street View images, I know that. < 1427237843 616838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=5457551 is something a quick search turned up. < 1427237861 774366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if we've published any papers in the topic. < 1427237926 413834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how many individual photos the Street View collection is. It's probably a big number. < 1427237973 607 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1427238130 763730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "Incremental plane-based reconstruction and exploration of buildings in old postcards". < 1427238230 12143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title was more interesting than the contents, to be honest. < 1427238247 379338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not Google-related at all, just browsing.) < 1427238332 461755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vision.princeton.edu/projects/2014/readjustment/paper.pdf is probably relevant wrt how accurate you can get with photos. < 1427238717 587643 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1427238815 770410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this stuff; it's a shame people aren't doing the same with audio. < 1427238896 156922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record some arbitrary signal with N microphones, reconstruct the 3D environment around it. Might be "slightly" more ill-conditioned problem. < 1427239004 733936 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, though I was more wondering on the global measurement accuracy. Could you for example use this to improve something like openstreetmap? < 1427239021 746060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1427239138 822025 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How physical-reality-accurate is OpenStreetMap trying to be, anyway? < 1427239175 351349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, as good as possible, though it depends on the individual contributor I assume < 1427239228 704564 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have contributed some stuff to it for example. And it depended on my input data in each case how accurate I could be. < 1427239251 203690 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physical accuracy might not be absolutely critical (I mean, below the scale of, say, 1m) for many of their use cases, though. < 1427239260 353601 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course < 1427239284 740721 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but air-based imagery in hilly terrain has some issues when not taken from straight above < 1427239295 983196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's spooky, I went to maps.google.com and it knows where I am. < 1427239305 7943 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some cases, such as mapping trails in nature reserves, all I have is my GPS traces, with maybe a 10-20 meter accuracy if conditions are bad < 1427239317 336262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on a desktop browser. And I don't mean the city, I mean the exact location. < 1427239323 187183 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1427239338 275798 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I always click "don't share location" when I get such questions < 1427239357 709665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't ask. < 1427239377 984100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it didn't show the "website wants to know your location" thing. Although it's quite possible I've given it permission. < 1427239396 68145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, IP geolocation puts our home DSL into Topcliffe, UK. < 1427239413 718522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's somewhere north of Leeds, and very much not where we are. < 1427239462 882239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's something like 300 km off.) < 1427239480 877529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe 200-300. Anyway. < 1427239481 335021 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1427239496 539480 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe google checks the ping from all their servers and uses that? < 1427239504 740964 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be neat < 1427239554 803745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. Or maybe it's tied to my logged-in Android device with location reporting. (Hey, they paid for it.) < 1427239587 499656 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, you should be able to deal with hills and such when mapping using SFM on the ground I think. < 1427239595 857156 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it is accurate enough < 1427239608 438056 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you have some way to calibrate or measure a base distance < 1427239664 69532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmaybe. If you don't get a single frame out of the whole thing you're mapping, though, you might end up with accumulating error, like when using accelerometer-based things. < 1427239836 294534 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1427239863 300814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1427239873 606394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When you activate the My Location feature, Google Maps asks your web browser for your location. Typically, your browser uses information about the Wi-Fi access points around you to estimate your location." < 1427239890 907867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they know of an access point in this building, or somethin... wait a minute, this desktop doesn't have wifi. < 1427239916 229880 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking you would carefully take photos of a city block or two that is on a hill, and some features on flat terrain nearby, then you could create a 3D model, and calculate a orthographic projection straight above from it, and use that to create the map < 1427239938 556081 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ouch < 1427239961 290587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If no Wi-Fi access points are in range, or your computer doesn't have Wi-Fi, it may resort to using your computer's IP address to get an approximate location." Well, it's not doing that. Unless Google's getting my ISP's subscriber information or something, which sounds unlikely. < 1427239975 514161 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should check in Javascript console what the JS geolocation API returns. < 1427239980 482293 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1427239991 206913 :Lymee!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1427239999 51124 :Lymia!~lymia@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427240035 812578 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1427240057 438579 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I need to sleep < 1427240059 642502 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1427240061 96251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Well, doing that in the JS console did pop up the "... wants to use your computer's location" box, so they're not using that. < 1427240066 416962 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess it's device-based, then. < 1427240067 531820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night. < 1427240710 370035 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1427240874 468016 :orin!~g2watson@wolf.cdf.toronto.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you on a mac? < 1427240881 852876 :iamevn!~iamevn|@75-139-67-204.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1427240898 205457 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1427241576 778626 :AndoDaan_!~AndoDaan@188.189.74.84 JOIN :#esoteric