< 1426291259 652309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the rules of baseball have the most repetitive URL I've ever seen: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_rules.jsp < 1426291286 172055 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, yes it is very repetitive < 1426291356 349821 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it official? Or MLB? < 1426291361 521636 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to know for certain. < 1426291731 721421 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly google tells me mlb may stand for "major league baseball" or "minor league baseball", so your url is repetitive but not unambiguous. < 1426292119 35434 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also those appear to be the 2014 official rules, so i'm not sure they work in 2015. and by providing us with this url you committed a copyright infringement: "No part of the Official Baseball Rules may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording or any information storage and retrieval system now known or to be invented, without permission in writing from the Office < 1426292119 251634 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Commissioner of Baseball." < 1426292132 746379 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426292185 222330 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the URL part of the rules too? < 1426292192 19245 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.78.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426292240 587588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: I'm not convinced that the URL itself is part of the rules < 1426292240 796009 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not but they are a means to transmit them < 1426292246 333805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is, you can't copyright single words or short phrases < 1426292252 1407 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426292252 4072 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426292476 231916 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my point is that it is weird to forbid to reproduce or transmit electronically a pdf that is freely available < 1426292494 922802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that they don't want people sharing the PDF via any method other than their website < 1426292543 608414 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can transmit via a medium invented at the time of writing but unknown < 1426292551 825109 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg Apache Wave probably < 1426293086 377540 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426293108 500200 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426293279 958623 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they mean you aren't allowed to print out and photocopy it. < 1426293372 635291 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426293372 960847 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426293413 977608 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, writing your own document which is describing the same stuff might be OK. < 1426293450 325389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that way you could make a document using a different file format such as .txt < 1426293474 494114 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: it's funny, you did actually reproduce a part of the PDF. < 1426293500 902917 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but that is the copyright notice; they copy that everywhere including in other books too < 1426293509 39284 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably not a copyrightable part, but more so than a URL) < 1426293554 570638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Debian's copyright parser complained that my summary of the copyright status didn't explain the copyright of the summary of the copyright status < 1426293579 343678 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426293589 577579 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426293595 174348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I improvised this: http://trac.nethack4.org/browser/copyright#L5 < 1426293613 216869 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: it is part of the pdf but is it part of the Official Baseball Rules? also the url isn't part of the rules but it is a means of transmitting them < 1426293745 226223 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: nope < 1426293752 40211 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1426293782 535224 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: the transmission of the rules is performed by the browser once you click on a link on the page that is referred to by the given URL < 1426293812 20148 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's like giving somebody the address of a book shop that sells exactly one book. < 1426293831 433582 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's transmitting from the server to my computer, but it was already on ais's computer < 1426293846 26804 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would never have been on mine if he hadn't given the url < 1426293886 410746 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, even though the pdf did not physically travel from ais's computer to mine, it was transmitted < 1426293896 203914 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like a wave doesn't need matter to travel < 1426293932 157827 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: the transmission was done by the mlb.mlb.com server; presumably the owners have the required written permission to perform that transmission. < 1426293947 763572 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1426293968 800008 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: If they do not, it's them that violate copyright, not ais523 or you. < 1426293982 78361 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is, this irc channel took part in the transmission < 1426293988 266627 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it did not. < 1426294001 679324 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i guess this settles that < 1426294001 681607 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426294021 578823 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426294129 659287 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot get this Internet configured right. :/ < 1426294148 780142 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how do you do? < 1426294149 30389 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the point is < 1426294150 522656 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you're alive!!! < 1426294150 900261 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: maybe two, actually, not so complicated you constantly get lost... but i'm sure i'll manage to sort that out :) < 1426294161 44695 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1426294161 235983 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1426294167 21905 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a ugly workaround so that I could get fungot up, but that's all. < 1426294167 263969 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what other kinds of sequences such as make-vector and make-string. later on < 1426294266 813986 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1426294267 196774 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's one of the google image search, even < 1426294283 782391 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: What's your take on this: If I have a language model trained on the text of a book, does that make it a derived work of this book? If so, would it still qualify as fair use? < 1426294333 651835 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1426294333 652613 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1426294340 832730 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 123 < 1426294341 78771 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: " you've got me there.' she drummed her fingers on the table, chair,' said cohen. < 1426294393 742472 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1426294393 853087 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1426294414 268918 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, fungot < 1426294414 929923 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but i was under the impression that it just compiles code to sql. " you don't have anything fnord right, then < 1426294458 159325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1426294458 397921 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: there was also a friggin' syntax replacement for c would be inconvenient < 1426294469 463995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet is VDSL2 PTM, with PPPoE over the Ethernet frames that go in PTM. It works when I put the bundled router-modem into "routed" mode (so that it negotiates the PPPoE link), and I've even partially got the 8-IP subnet the ISP assigned kinda-sorta working (the router-modem had a "public subnet" mode, which makes it do some sort of proxyarp trickery, but that means all the public IP ... < 1426294475 388776 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... addresses need to be directly in the Ethernet segment formed by the LAN ports of the router-modem, and with distinct MACs), but it's ugly and wastes a public IP for the router-modem. < 1426294478 590887 :olsner!~salparot@c80-217-116-33.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fungot! < 1426294479 169607 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: doesn't chez scheme, and boolean contexts, such as t, notably the fact that i'm using is probably written in c. < 1426294504 615294 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not sure what a language model trained is < 1426294515 177402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic says it *should* work just fine if I toggle the router-modem to "bridged" mode, and have my regular Linux box speak PPPoE into the Ethernet interface, but it just doesn't go. < 1426294555 828053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've ran the manual "pppoe-discovery" tool and tcpdumped it on the Linux box, and the PPPoE "PADI" packets are going out, but no answers are coming in.) < 1426294587 979824 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the router-modem only has this custom CLI and no way of getting a proper shell (so I could go and see how they've configured it), which is always so infuriating. < 1426294605 490087 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :all hail fungot, master of fnords < 1426294605 490895 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs: the argument in the function itself < 1426294722 716582 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426294722 754249 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426294831 815865 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: If you have an unpruned fixed-length n-gram model of sufficient length that all the counts for the highest-n grams are 1, you can reconstruct the entire book, which is maybe kind of dubious copyrightically. (Of course you normally wouldn't. Especially since fungot doesn't do backoff, so you'd only get verbatim quotes.) < 1426294831 974077 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and -s restrict that scope < 1426295721 858142 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426296057 855731 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426296227 924319 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1426296235 791639 :trn!jhj@trnsz.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1426296261 867815 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes in a 6502 code you might not want to use CMP for comparison so you might use EOR instead, such as if you do not want the carry flag to be affected. < 1426296263 835160 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426296771 719210 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1426297133 444742 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1426297501 215704 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426297501 254142 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426297521 193728 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1426297577 936398 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Client Quit < 1426297595 785147 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1426297627 843363 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426297671 526920 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1426297698 878820 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1426297900 625812 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.78.115 QUIT :Quit: Going, going, gone. < 1426298448 870787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426298682 803570 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426298869 271795 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1426299650 927991 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426299824 691031 :rodgort!~rodgort@105.ip-167-114-152.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1426300002 835494 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426300002 999242 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426300127 388464 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's possible that I talked about it but never did it < 1426300140 53615 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about it, I more distinctly remember thinking about Deadfish in Tcl < 1426300151 724569 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do ARCFOUR with a (log2(256!)+16) bit key (this number of bits isn't a integer) < 1426300407 626775 :rodgort!~rodgort@105.ip-167-114-152.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426301284 371571 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it is the return type of these numpy functions documented ANYWHERE < 1426301298 199493 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426301424 892431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never seen it so I don't know < 1426301495 810630 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426301505 668712 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426301507 899766 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1426301649 141587 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhh so when I do A * B it tries to do it element wise?!?! of all the crap i have to deal with, matrices that don't multiply right < 1426301731 592090 :arjanb!8259a906@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.169.6 QUIT :Quit: . < 1426301910 711737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there is a separate function for matrix multiplication? < 1426301937 505889 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have to do np.dot(A,B) which gets pretty ugly < 1426302631 877542 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426302631 918243 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426302678 298199 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also conflating dot product with matrix product is... iffy < 1426302803 233394 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :really v dot u is v matrix product u transpose < 1426302827 445722 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, the opposit < 1426302884 673996 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm _surely_ we already had an ~ATH article? < 1426302959 670041 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Yeah, dot doesn't seem right for that < 1426303184 574184 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What we really need is a math library based not on matrices but on Tensors < 1426303201 140949 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would help too, I believe you < 1426303239 610006 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph maybe not < 1426303312 186190 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2a85f.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Ashes is gorgeous < 1426303449 220974 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well even if my code is made ugly by this library, it works at least < 1426303511 420455 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which my C neural network code does not < 1426303537 377615 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1426303689 740619 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ATH is conceptually interesting but its syntax is generic < 1426303806 386305 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... would it not be possible to automatically chack obituaries? < 1426303876 897693 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426303888 994992 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426303953 256888 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, deaths of people would be much easier to check for than animals or objects < 1426303994 209923 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still very hard, but I bet google could do it < 1426304053 987683 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426304067 410379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :death of public decency < 1426304071 829393 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426304093 888715 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1426304145 407737 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426304274 558795 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, an implementation could just assume all named individuals are alive, and use actuarial tables < 1426304288 883209 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1426304410 683712 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426304774 453616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hap-pi-day < 1426304956 990939 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the proper virtual tables in SQLite you could receive such information (unless it is already in SQLite format in which case you don't need virtual tables); I have written extension to read JSON and RDF Turtle documents as virtual tables, so if it is those formats you can access them in this way. < 1426305118 940804 :^v!~notnot^v@ip-214-127-84-66.mi.airadvantage.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426305186 801475 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426305186 855623 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426305394 741525 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426305603 812439 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1426305733 381104 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know what format such actuarial tables would be in? < 1426305826 732388 :^v!~notnot^v@ip-214-127-84-66.mi.airadvantage.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426305940 841428 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1426306171 431383 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1426306502 879286 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1426306634 870148 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426306634 989749 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426306660 593428 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some actual format, i should assume. < 1426306867 88532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and just as someone wiped ~ATH from wikipedia's esolang page. < 1426307282 404131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you like to define pi (or tau) in terms of geometry instead of in the other way? < 1426307305 208274 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What other way? Infinite series? < 1426307347 761006 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are several possible other ways, but what I was thinking of is e to power of i times tau makes 1 < 1426307367 770391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being the smallest positive solution < 1426307395 641195 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :tau = ln(i)*4/i < 1426307662 854246 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1426307682 518193 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :τ = ln(1)/i < 1426307714 676342 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :The principal value of ln(1) is 0 < 1426307718 163226 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait why doesn't that work < 1426307726 84983 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1426307734 255922 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Branch cut < 1426307817 728702 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426307886 354415 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greek letters being fullwidth is so inconvenient when the terminal assumes they are half < 1426307888 326843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zero isn't positive anyways < 1426307918 647525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: That's the problem with using Unicode in this way. < 1426308027 890451 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426308130 998929 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426308163 211790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a terminal screen such encoding would seem to work better when wide character are 2-bytes long and narrow character are 1-bytes long. < 1426308208 453638 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... what happens if I switch the encoding to Shift-JIS? < 1426308228 145328 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh, the correct thing in general is wcswidth. < 1426308250 989310 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tells you the width of a wchar_t string in terminal cells) < 1426308360 789835 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey that actually works! < 1426308395 436106 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just switch terminal settings to Shift-JIS and bang, correct spacing < 1426308429 206066 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, your terminal and your everything else need to agree on what the charset is for things to work. < 1426308441 999940 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BTW Greek letters are half width normally. :)) < 1426308497 168676 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Shift-JIS they made all two byte characters fullwidth and all one byte characters half-width... I guess for simplicity < 1426308519 351723 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Yes, that's a good idea when doing fix-pitch text. < 1426308565 155399 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode is good for using to convert between encodings, that you can store them in tables (you can even add new codes if converting characters that aren't in Unicode), but for general purpose works badly for several reasons really and is pretty stupid as far as I am concerned. < 1426308595 855632 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Unicode is not as complex as you might think. < 1426308614 377245 :pikhq!~pikhq@2001:470:c47a:1:eade:27ff:fe08:b48b PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though most things that implement it suck at it. < 1426308709 221080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not even complete < 1426308766 576982 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complex scripts and ligatures and text direction and so on should belong in the font metrics file, and program that uses it should only read the font metrics file to determine such thing. < 1426308910 510427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program should only look at, it is trying to render character code 499488291 therefore you have to look up 499488291 in the font metrics file to determine the proper text direction, kerning, ligatures, default line breaking setting, extending into margin, pointer into font glyph file, etc < 1426309089 854816 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426309089 925371 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426309273 679391 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426309278 462876 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426309848 393789 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: most problems with unicode come from its insisting that you can convert characters from any charset X to unicode and back and not lose anything < 1426309899 919677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: That is certainly some of it; as I said, it is even incomplete < 1426309907 959517 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where anything can mean differences only visible to computer and not onscreen) < 1426310105 504080 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, unicode is bugward compatible to the bugs of like 30 charsets, combines < 1426310125 163721 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it is so damn buggy < 1426310136 898450 :^v^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:a16c:83db:7216:9763 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426310157 16972 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way rendering properties should belong in the metrics file rather than in the program < 1426310180 211128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which also has the advantage in case you need to define your own characters) < 1426310406 75906 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure under what conditions I would be defining my own characters... I guess conlangers would be ahppy? < 1426310420 578518 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's one use < 1426310451 161149 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426310451 170928 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426310640 950067 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426310652 267149 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426310789 773867 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426311220 994418 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1426311740 89682 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426311740 214059 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426312581 99943 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :8/k7/P2b2P1/KP1Pn2P/4R3/8/6np/8 White to play and win. < 1426313061 99673 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426313247 211934 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1426313262 654606 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426313274 877912 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426313468 968496 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426314366 950166 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426314367 210631 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426314585 939080 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t confusing < 1426314586 799616 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: ‘confusing’ < 1426315792 573401 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426315869 870706 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1426316606 721316 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426316861 525278 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1426316901 67575 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426316948 201800 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426316948 211924 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426317139 429986 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426317176 174068 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426318263 240713 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426318263 248646 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426318866 136426 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1426319217 272713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1426319592 924547 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426319767 221469 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426320903 367609 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426320903 406216 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426322212 101476 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426322433 487282 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1426323506 338674 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426323506 380075 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426324250 562021 :theTower!~claws@192.0.168.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426324274 327878 :theTower!~claws@192.0.168.49 PART :#esoteric < 1426324842 846923 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1426324902 462677 :^v^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:a16c:83db:7216:9763 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426324926 212020 :^v^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:a16c:83db:7216:9763 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426325049 381200 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1426325330 613635 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 . < 1426326480 955639 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426327332 695341 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.55 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1426328292 304932 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1426328620 91238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1426329186 204368 :TieSleep!~quassel@86.89.119.147 NICK :TieSoul < 1426329865 329591 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426329969 936647 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426331683 533515 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426331766 130768 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426331973 462272 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1426332956 153203 :Fleur!~Fleur@unaffiliated/fleur JOIN :#esoteric < 1426337163 25631 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1426337197 191699 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426337343 479521 :arjanb!8259a906@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.169.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426338239 437065 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426338330 519328 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1426338522 476404 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1426339709 570640 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426341238 54338 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1426341881 374322 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1426342507 671034 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426344370 868408 :philippos!~philipp@dslb-088-076-013-069.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1426344379 262622 :philippos!~philipp@dslb-088-076-013-069.088.076.pools.vodafone-ip.de PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1426344774 599544 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426345114 590663 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1426346725 17015 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426346965 748618 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1426347247 751198 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lshkxgwfdodbvqej JOIN :#esoteric < 1426348089 634150 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1426348258 405217 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07~ATH14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=42126&oldid=42125 5* 03GermanyBoy 5* (+86) 10added some categories < 1426348303 451779 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1426349119 381409 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1426349223 14140 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426350458 237120 :S1!~S1@p4FF92B59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1426351276 73687 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426351434 453906 :TieSoul!~quassel@86.89.119.147 NICK :TieAFK < 1426351542 27178 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1426351966 532649 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1426352308 923741 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426352464 20492 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@146.38.200.146.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426352469 417433 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@146.38.200.146.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Changing host < 1426352469 418119 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1426354195 860293 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1426354216 672319 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426354228 765081 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426354297 795765 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1426354631 286168 :^v^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:a16c:83db:7216:9763 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426354656 857092 :^v^v!~^v@2601:4:680:104c:a16c:83db:7216:9763 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426354936 870871 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1426355003 242174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426355236 304504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426355243 734516 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426355438 955599 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1426355481 369101 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1426355537 692030 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a45f2f.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1426355806 357040 :S1!~S1@p4FF92B59.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1426356063 233138 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: brb~ < 1426356179 921641 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426356867 166921 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1426356921 769784 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1426357251 565490 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a45f2f.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426357340 187334 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a45f2f.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1426358744 229641 :SopaXorzTaker!~SopaXorzT@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426358995 336437 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: VISCOSE CHICKEN < 1426359421 264025 :arjanb!8259a906@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.169.6 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1426359773 824962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1426359781 269853 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426360132 136920 :TieAFK!~quassel@86.89.119.147 NICK :TieSoul < 1426362080 847202 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.68.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426363111 758514 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426363362 687379 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1426364303 842341 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1426364632 459808 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426364741 338706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1426364749 879917 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1426365137 659806 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51a45f2f.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426365213 716538 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A45F2F.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1426365500 953425 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426365519 344819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1426365519 455240 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1426365989 854139 :TieSoul!~quassel@86.89.119.147 NICK :TieSleep < 1426366339 971277 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many esolangs as ARCFOUR been implemented in so far? < 1426366776 932665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1426366788 764564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426366931 1337 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1426368419 650275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426368430 464418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426368897 384848 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426369443 578343 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426369523 528033 :L8D!~L8D@99-156-81-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net PART :#esoteric < 1426370042 123859 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1426370759 213373 :MoALTz_!~no@78.11.179.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426370905 809807 :MoALTz!~no@78.11.179.104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1426371268 50648 :AndoDaan!~AndoDaan@188.188.68.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1426371392 964473 :ProofTechnique!~ptech@c-24-147-92-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1426371916 62683 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A45F2F.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1426372802 263099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a problem I've come across < 1426372862 475507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to transfer files to and from a remote system, but my only connection to it is an ssh connection that goes through multiple levels of terminal multiplexers (screen, tmux and the like) < 1426372876 388395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a Linux system with no direct network connectivity, it has a working C compiler but not much else < 1426372948 229073 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already figured out how to transfer files there (send over a uudecode impl, compile it, then copy-and-paste uucode) < 1426372977 994572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but going the other way is rather harder; terminal multiplexers don't intercept a stream of printable characters you're sending to the inside terminal, but they certainly mess with the stream of characters that comes back < 1426373045 768861 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one method that would work would be to give uucode on the way back a screenful at a time (with delays added), then run a vt100 parser on the result after receiving it and translate back into uucode that way < 1426373050 951801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :delays would be needed to know where the frames were < 1426373074 163985 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that is one way < 1426373086 144349 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you not just open a nc connection? < 1426373098 103618 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why do you even have such a system? < 1426373109 322094 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the only connection I have to inside this is through multiple layers of terminal multiplexers < 1426373114 650429 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so open a new one < 1426373115 471239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's a case of nested VMs < 1426373139 228231 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the innermost one not internet-connected? < 1426373140 318406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of them doesn't even have an emulated network card < 1426373145 399161 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is using an emulated serial terminal < 1426373146 506988 :coppro!~scshunt@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, fun < 1426373161 305292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this seemed like a fun enough problem to ask #esoteric about < 1426373168 537186 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution may well be "change the VM setup somehow" < 1426373182 728206 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you can change the VM setup, then you probably should < 1426373189 351316 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I'd like to find a solution under the current parameters just out of intellectual curiosity < 1426373243 917589 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I suppose just telling it to display and then parse the display would probably be the way if without changing the VM. < 1426373361 731370 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what sort of information do we put on the display? can it be done without delays? perhaps not because the terminal emulators might elide everything that's output, but what if they don't? < 1426373371 422806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to experiment < 1426373414 303028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1426373426 68295 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426373639 101487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've used screen's output logging (C-a H, writes to "screenlog.n") for data transfer (with just "uuencode file" writing to standard output on the "sending" side) but you're certainly right that it's conceivable that some terminal-optimization step somewhere on the path might drop stuff. < 1426373656 528715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, and there's more than one layer of terminal emulator here < 1426373668 612051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran `seq 0 10000` and recorded the output < 1426373685 450237 :irctc541!53fa3786@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.250.55.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1426373703 10579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sometimes repeats sections, with a bunch of "\1b[4C\r" in between < 1426373738 845010 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ESC [ 4 C is "cursor 4 columns right" < 1426373763 497859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then at the end it does a "move cursor to top-left" < 1426373768 653266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, a lot of redundant VT-100 in here < 1426373803 492623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't noticed any omitted numbers though < 1426373906 869921 :irctc541!53fa3786@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.250.55.134 QUIT :Client Quit < 1426373936 130841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A line-oriented framing format (and a suitably slow speed between lines so that you would "see" every line at least once) combined with a "dumb" observer that just looks for the line start/end markers sounds like it might have some chance of working. Though it's certainly not guaranteed. I remember using lynx-in-screen on a slow-ish serial terminal, and it did quite a lot of trickery for ... < 1426373942 86846 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... redraw, including scrolling arbitrary-looking rectangles around to send as little over the wire as possible. < 1426373966 416481 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know where most of that behaviour came from.) < 1426373985 731871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current plan is to express lines as [sequence number][uucode content] and then strip out all the VT-100 codes < 1426374028 257537 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should be able to detect missing sequence numbers, at least < 1426374174 764090 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a funny problem. < 1426374189 691930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I thought #esoteric would like it < 1426374193 804897 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a checksum to each line? < 1426374213 827146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could do, although just md5sum on the resulting file would likely be good enough < 1426374562 123968 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1426376316 623724 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1426376711 484127 :oren!~oren@65.94.97.99 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like we need an implementation of "ip over tmuxxers" < 1426376735 144536 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1426377290 268278 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: helloren. ip over tmuxxer? < 1426377389 964819 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-84-223.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, make up such program