00:01:55 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:04:42 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hug~♪). 00:04:55 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:04:55 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:04:55 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:05:58 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:09:53 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:10:15 -!- GeekDude has joined. 00:12:29 -!- not^v has joined. 00:16:46 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:23:23 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 00:26:27 `olist 973 00:26:28 olist 973: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 00:27:26 -!- skj3gg has joined. 00:29:19 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:29:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:29:20 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:29:49 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:48:49 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:53:53 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:03:20 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:22:06 -!- barryking has joined. 01:22:18 -!- barryking has changed nick to KrimHum. 01:22:51 -!- KrimHum has left ("Leaving"). 01:24:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:24:22 nice kink.com hostname 01:25:00 -!- dianne has joined. 01:28:06 -!- G33kDude has joined. 01:28:40 -!- GeekDude has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:28:46 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 01:34:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:36:46 ooh rjan 01:36:51 øøh, perhaps 01:38:14 shaxxxxaf 01:38:36 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:38:39 the joke is olist 973 hth 01:38:49 i noticed 01:40:31 i see simonpj has suggested simply making _every_ type Typeable as a way to solve the bug 01:41:04 and then someone suggested not requiring Typeable constraints 01:41:13 imo who needs 'em 01:41:20 yes, but i think that would be awkward to achieve... 01:41:55 in the dystopian ghc future, parametricity is but a distant memory 01:42:21 why did we ever let spj take over, we ask ourselves. but it is too late 01:42:34 * oerjan gets confused when people use nicks but still address each other with real names 01:42:58 but goldfire is richard eisenberg, right 01:43:04 yes 01:43:24 middle initial A 01:43:25 Would you be more confused by people addressing someone IRL with a screen name rather than with their real name? 01:43:34 good subject for a double dactyl 01:43:39 pikhq: let's ask Taneb hth 01:44:36 oerjan: due to great confusion of this sort i started keeping a file with nick<->name mappings for haskell people 01:44:36 pterodactyl meter 01:44:39 it has ~200 entries now 01:44:40 it's great 01:44:44 heh 01:46:45 pikhq: do people do that to you 01:47:11 Yes. 01:47:17 i would be confused how to pronounce it. but then Taneb doesn't put the stress where i would, either. 01:47:29 Fortunately I answer to it. 01:47:39 "pika pika" 01:47:43 * oerjan ducks and runs 01:47:45 Like "pikachu". "peek eitch kyuu" 01:48:10 well i really knew that 01:48:56 i don't pronounce pikachu like "peek eitch kyuu" 01:48:56 Darn stupid mouth feeling punched. 01:49:03 oerjan: :P 01:49:20 "peek a chuu" vs. "peek eitch kyuu". They sound similar. 01:49:33 if I said pikhq it'd be like p'k heich queue 01:49:33 yes but not identical 01:49:40 whereas pikachu would be peek a chew 01:50:25 i say banayna, you say banahna 01:51:08 * oerjan is inspired by the latest iwc poll 01:51:21 why're you all making 'pik' a single syllable?! 01:51:35 Cause I speak English. 01:51:52 oerhört 01:52:03 unerhört 01:52:19 When I speak Japanese I say "pikachu" as 4 morae (pi ka chu u) as is proper. 01:52:32 (the incomprehensible joke is that oe is two syllables in that swedish word) 01:52:43 (which means "unheard of") 01:52:51 o-erjan? 01:53:05 oerjan: hey I accidently translated it into german correctly. 01:53:12 yay 01:53:41 it is fairly likely to have been half-borrowed from german in the first place, specifically the -er- part 01:53:50 pikhq: have you considered a legal name change to Pik Headquarters 01:53:56 No. 01:54:03 because that prefix isn't native nordic afair 01:54:56 (and the rest of the word was probably borrowed too, it's not like the prefix was borrowed in isolation) 01:55:36 hear hear! 01:56:54 although it may very well have expanded to native words afterwards. 01:59:39 some of the traditional difference in vocabulary in nynorsk vs. bokmål is because the nynorsk supporters had a certain repulsion against such obvious german loanwords 02:00:40 so e.g. the nynorsk word for "reality" is "røynd" rather than the german-borrowed bokmål "virkelighet" 02:02:01 nynorsk was envisioned as "going back to the roots" 02:03:07 however some of those words feel so archaic that most nynorsk users today use the german-derived loanwords anyway 02:04:34 (and of course being constantly exposed to the majority bokmål media probably doesn't help with keeping the differences) 02:04:56 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 02:11:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:11:39 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 02:11:39 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:12:56 -!- skj3gg has joined. 02:22:58 every day, the Norwegian Question becomes confuser and confuser... 02:24:05 I had no idea Wikipedia had a main contents page. 02:24:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Contents 02:24:39 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 02:28:15 boily: correct 02:31:52 -!- tswett has joined. 02:38:23 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 02:41:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SWUNG CHICKEN). 03:03:28 Help me I'm excited about a Microsoft product 03:05:32 * oerjan hits Sgeo with the saucepan ===\__/ 03:05:36 DID THAT HELP 03:06:18 help me oerjan i'm excited about a culinary product 03:06:28 No because the saucepan isn't 'holographic' 03:06:54 shachaf: sorry you're doomed hth 03:07:02 Ok we need a better word than holographic because iirc that means a specific means of projecting 3d images, and everything interesting is using... different ways of doing it 03:07:45 i'd say holographic implies that it can be correctly viewed from different angles, unlike e.g. 3d glasses 03:08:45 (at least "ordinary" 3d glasses with a flat cinema screen) 03:09:40 So Oculus Rift and HoloLens wouldn't count, since you see the 3d screen itself from one angle? 03:10:08 i haven't read enough about those products 03:10:54 i'd say, you'd ideally also want _more than one person_ to be able to watch, from different angles, at the same time. 03:11:27 of course even laser holograms are limited in the range of angles they allow, i think 03:11:47 Augmented Reality is the term used for stuff like HoloLens, I think. 03:12:36 For that, you could get an eyetap for both eyes. 03:12:51 3D effect would be fine if emulated via head tracking. 03:14:57 * Sgeo wonders what the SDK will be like 03:15:14 I assume it's more complicated than normal 3D programming, which I don't totally understand 03:24:06 https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/2ta829/arstechnica_handson_microsofts_hololens_is/cnxfznw 03:29:33 -!- Lilax has joined. 03:35:52 Technically speaking the force of two planets smashing into eachother is considered an explosion 03:37:37 where's that thing about "objects are just a special case of functions" / "functions are just a special case of objects" <-- i think it's one of the "koans" 03:39:48 How do you keep apostrophe's in your latex text when you convert to pdf? 03:40:27 @tell elliott Google for "Qc na" 03:40:28 Consider it noted. 03:40:59 Lilax: i think you can drop at least one apostrophe hth 03:41:00 gazoogle 03:41:29 heh 03:41:44 * oerjan has no idea why apostrophes would be a problem. 03:42:18 /is doing this for someone 03:42:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:42:25 I have no idea either 03:58:33 @tell elliott I suddenly realised I'm not being listened to. <-- you should have seen yesterday's tensor conversation. 03:58:33 Consider it noted. 04:00:29 @tell elliott everything he said was technically correct yet missing the point of our discussion. 04:00:29 Consider it noted. 04:01:51 maybe i should have said so outright at the time. 04:13:32 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:14:37 -!- Jafet has joined. 04:25:35 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:34:12 -!- skj3gg has joined. 04:45:08 -!- Jafet has left. 05:20:06 I have a feeling HoloLens UI as a productivity tool is more good for graphic design and less good for other stuff 05:20:21 It's the whole 'do you really want to wave your arms in the air for extended periods of time' thing 05:20:42 Although mouse+keyboard+no monitor could be cool 05:25:28 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 05:27:20 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 05:38:52 -!- skj3gg has joined. 05:48:36 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 05:51:57 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:02:01 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:03:52 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:13:51 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 06:25:22 -!- Lilax has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:41:12 -!- Jafet has joined. 06:49:53 -!- skj3gg has joined. 06:53:53 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 07:00:10 hm today's girl genius is the last of a double spread, but seems to be missing the usual elegant and finely crafted link to a big version. 07:03:51 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 07:06:28 This is a hyperlink. All craftsdevship is of the highest quality. 07:09:36 -!- skj3gg has joined. 07:10:20 no no "elegant and finely-crafted link" is an official term, e.g. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20061011 07:18:10 be two days' worth of story, but this time we thought it 07:18:11 best to use the whole thing for one day. Simply scroll down to read the second page. You can also view the whole thing by following this 07:18:11 elegant and finely-crafted link.

07:18:31 Avant-garde, daring in its asymmetry. I like it 07:19:38 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 07:23:52 -!- skj3gg has joined. 07:25:32 oerjan: Do you think I'd be better off not avoiding coördinates? 07:25:54 You did say that that was how you learned it. 07:26:09 well learned *of* it 07:26:49 pretty sure it makes more sense if you also know the categorical viewpoint 07:27:44 in fact i'm not sure there is much more to the coordinates than "pairs of basis elements for each space form a basis for their tensor product" 07:29:57 i still don't have a good motivation for a lot of the things 07:31:17 well if you understand matrices as the most obvious way of writing an element of V* (x) W in form of basis elements, and that that is canonically isomorphic to V -o W... 07:31:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:32:47 mind you i don't know either how to actually _calculate_ with tensors whenever derivatives are involved... 07:33:55 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 07:33:57 the basic motivation for tensors afaiu is "how to describe physics properties in terms that are independent of your choice of coordinate systems" 07:34:49 -!- skj3gg has joined. 07:34:59 and the non-coordinate way of defining things makes it bloody obvious that what you've done actually _is_ independent of them. 07:35:21 even if you can do things with coordinates and show that they behave nicely under transformations. 07:36:10 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 07:36:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:44:25 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 07:45:16 * oerjan still doesn't actually see how to show that V* (x) W is isomorphic to V -o W without using coordinates 07:46:02 and also, V must be finite-dimensional 07:46:28 oh well 07:46:41 doesn't it just work given that V ~ V**? 07:46:53 well that's of course pretty darn equivalent 07:47:05 to being finite dimensional 07:47:33 although maybe that means it also works for infinite dimensional hilbert spaces if interpreted right 07:48:04 -!- Froox has joined. 07:48:22 but anyway i don't see how it follows from V ~ V** either 07:49:03 Morning 07:49:14 morning 07:49:20 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:49:27 oerjan: wait, what was wrong with the thing i did yesterday? 07:49:37 i don't remember what you did 07:50:22 (V -o W) (V -o ((W -o F) -o F)) ((V (x) (W -o F)) -o F) 07:50:29 oh, right, and i wasn't sure about the last step 07:50:45 um it's V that needs to be finite dimensional, not W 07:50:45 but surely (V (x) W*)* = V* (x) W 07:51:02 we were talking about the case where V=W anyway 07:51:06 since it's a tensor 07:51:29 i guess now your question is more general 07:51:31 -!- chaosagent has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:52:47 hm 07:53:11 i'm pretty sure (V (x) W*)* is only ~ V* (x) W if the whole thing is finite dimensional 07:53:18 http://planetmath.org/tensorproductofdualspacesisadualspaceoftensorproduct 07:53:47 sounds like a German compound word 07:55:28 I sorproduct pretty infrequently. 07:55:38 shachaf: it sounds like they're constructing something extremely non-canonical 07:56:04 yes 07:57:01 and implying in a side note that it's better if one of the spaces is FD 08:17:11 http://blog.jle.im/entry/io-monad-considered-harmful 08:29:22 -!- arjanb has quit (Quit: bbl). 09:08:36 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 09:32:57 -!- skj3gg has joined. 09:42:09 -!- vanila has joined. 09:42:14 https://github.com/dramforever/kspl 09:42:18 https://github.com/dramforever/kspl/blob/master/sample.kspl 09:42:55 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: ZZZzzz…). 09:56:16 wow 09:56:17 ok 09:56:18 never 09:56:52 NEVER watch guiness world records top 100 09:57:06 unless you want to be disgusted 09:57:11 then go for it. 10:06:51 World's most disgusting world records program 10:20:21 vanila: you should be able to implement that with TeX... 10:21:21 yes (I didnt make this) 10:22:02 Ah 10:25:36 -!- _meta has joined. 10:31:10 -!- _meta has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 10:48:24 -!- hjulle has joined. 11:07:52 -!- aretecode has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:10:54 -!- aretecode has joined. 11:16:52 I got my Lego BF interpreter working[0] last night. [0] It needs some attention around the rack/pinion interface, but apart from that it works :-) 11:17:48 congrats ! 11:18:30 ty - I was very please when it managed to multiply 4*3 last night. 11:18:56 Unfortunately a colleague has told me the tape drive sounds like a sarcastic duck - and he's right ! 11:19:22 -!- boily has joined. 11:20:32 haha 11:21:00 https://plus.google.com/photos/113373535180413523278/albums/6105388692419944513?authkey=CL2uopH9jZOkEQ 11:21:09 Vid of it at work. Quack, quack, quack ... 11:29:08 haha it really does 11:29:50 It doesn't sound as bad IRL, but maybe this is programmed in QF, for QuackF*ck ;-) 11:30:13 Hm, I can see a GIF preview but not any video. 11:30:25 click on the gif I believe 11:33:37 Are the coloured squares the program or the tape? (Unfortunately I can't find any video.) 11:34:40 yes 11:35:00 Hmm. Wonder why you've got no video. 11:35:14 https://plus.google.com/113373535180413523278/posts/D1rFySseXQ2 11:35:32 Try that - public post, so you should be able to click the gif to get the video 11:35:41 Red/Green = < > 11:35:48 Black / White = - + 11:35:58 Yellow / Brown = , . 11:36:02 Blue / Grey = [ ] 11:41:04 Ah well, I found a video URL in the HTML text. 11:46:17 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:50:37 That's interesting, the program is on the tape and I suppose the tape is in digital memory 11:50:55 I don't store anything that's on the tape. 11:51:06 The memory is internal - 256 bytes of it. 11:51:50 I have a program counter and a stack internally - used to manage the [ ] 11:52:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:52:12 What are the tank treads for, though? 11:52:33 they are used to move the sensor/flipper arm in the Y-axis 11:52:44 The rack/pinion moves it in the X-axis. 11:54:34 Yes, I don't quite see what they are for 11:55:40 the arm underneath the bits is attached to them. The move that arm up/down to select which bit to test/flip 11:55:56 The rack is used to select which nibble and which direction to test/flip 11:56:17 I take it that it's not clear how they are used to move the arm in the video ? 11:56:53 That is clear, but the eight "bits" at the top of the frame aren't 11:57:00 yes 11:57:07 held above a sensor/flipper 11:58:03 i'll be back in a while - I'll post some more vids that show the flipper in operation, 11:58:10 Can you explain, how they affect the interpretation of the program (or the other way round)? 12:00:54 Oh nevermind, clearly those are the input and output ports. 12:01:48 i want to build a physical computer too 12:03:31 In principle you don't need a photosensor, you could control the tape with a stepper motor (but it will probably use an optical encoder internally) 12:18:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:24:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: THEOLOGICAL CHICKEN). 12:32:30 I like the sound effects of that bf lego thing 12:36:25 -!- GeekDude has joined. 12:43:22 -!- anamaria1 has joined. 12:44:52 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 12:46:00 -!- SopaXorzTaker has joined. 12:54:31 @let data DQ a = DQ (DQ (a, a)) 12:54:33 Defined. 12:55:36 Parametricity 12:55:55 isn't that isomorphic to data X a = X X 12:56:56 oerjan: thanks, but I don't think I need the link now that I had that realisation :P 12:57:00 *I've 12:58:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:58:43 The Kaplan-Tarjan deque has something like DQ a = DQ0 | DQ [a] (DQ (a, a)) [a] 12:59:17 It just occurred to me that this is a very strange recursive type 12:59:28 nested data types, I think they're called 12:59:31 there's some paper about them 12:59:44 data BinTree a = Leaf a | Branch (BinTree (a,a)) 13:01:05 “Mycroft calls such schemes polymorphic recursions. We prefer the term nested datatypes” are they serious 13:02:15 http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=google.com 13:03:19 polymorphic recursion is often used for the value-level version I guess 13:03:24 but yeah nested data types is a weird term 13:05:48 Please provide a regular expression that can parse JSON. Go ahead, I'll wait. ← http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2svijo/commandline_tools_can_be_235x_faster_than_your/cnvdsak 13:05:56 I did it because I could, not because it's a good idea 13:07:22 ais523: nice "test JSON" 13:08:17 I haven't tried it on any really big JSON 13:08:22 luckily, JSON has a really simple spec 13:08:31 the main thing that took me problems was when it said "except control characters" 13:08:36 *that gave me problems 13:08:39 when it works in terms of Unicode 13:08:41 but JSON is complex compared to s-expressin isnt it? 13:08:50 vanila: yes, although not that much more complex 13:09:05 s-expressions still need to distinguish between strings and numbers and atoms, normally 13:09:18 so the only difference is that JSON has dictionaries and lists, and s-expressions just have lists 13:09:20 you know the code you posted is not an regular expresison... 13:09:48 Jafet, I still need the photo sensor as that's what reads the program 13:10:01 vanila: indeed, it's a Perl regex 13:10:04 which is a superset of regular expressions 13:10:20 I knew that that was the sort of "regular expression" people wanted based on context, though 13:10:53 JSON can't be parsed by a finite state machine (proof: 1, [1], [[1]], [[[1]]], etc.) 13:11:39 [0] lol backreferences, lol sed is Turing-complete 13:11:42 im not sure I undersatnd this ^ 13:12:02 or "I've just come to realize a sad fact though: processing raw text streams through mostly-regular languages is really weak" 13:12:26 sed is TC, but it has nothing to do with backreferences 13:12:31 deterministic-thue is trivial to implement in sed 13:12:44 err, to compile into sed 13:12:45 but baically what the fuck is he on about 13:12:48 is what im wondering 13:13:44 well, it's a random reddit comment thread 13:13:52 so it might just be a random sequence of words that are vaguely related to the subject 13:14:08 Or vaguely unrelated, in this case 13:14:28 does he know about parsing 13:14:43 The title post reminded me of a recent talk I attended, the speaker talked about challenges processing "several gigabytes" of medical records. 13:15:56 ic ant make any sense of it 13:16:00 it's interesting to see just how big "Big Data" is at any given point in time 13:16:19 he seems to be saying regular languages (and by this he includes non regular languages too) isnt good for everything 13:16:23 last time the question came up (a few weeks ago), someone defined it quite specifically as "the indexes of your database take up more than 224 gigabytes" 13:16:50 because with today's technology, that's the point at which you need specialized hardware to be able to fit them all in memory on a single computer at the same time 13:17:11 Which chipset has this 224 GiB limit? (Presumably AWS uses it.) 13:17:42 Jafet: that was actually the largest buyable AWS instance at the time of the comment 13:17:48 but yes, it seems like a reasonable chipset limit 13:17:50 It still is, apparently 13:18:22 (and costs $3 per hour. Tempting...) 13:20:25 I think most chipsets have rounder numbers as limits 13:21:30 224 is moderately round 13:21:44 $ factor 224 13:21:45 224: 2 2 2 2 2 7 13:22:27 !blsq 224fc 13:22:27 | {1 2 4 7 8 14 16 28 32 56 112 224} 13:22:29 !blsq 224fC 13:22:29 | {2 2 2 2 2 7} 13:23:17 using a factorisation primitive is almost as cheating as using a factorisation program ;-) 13:23:32 now I want to write factor in underlambda 13:23:38 the problem being I haven't figured out how arithmetic works yet 13:24:00 anyone here have advice for writing pure-functional factoring algos? 13:24:01 -!- TieSleep has changed nick to TieSoul. 13:24:31 I can implement loops as folds but it's a pain, and I can write fixpoint operators to get arbitrary loops but that's even more of a pain 13:24:36 ais523: there are definitely plenty of servers with more RAM than 224 gigabytes 13:24:46 I'm not sure that's even big data (tm) 13:24:56 elliott: yes, but those are going to be specialized for the purpose of having a lot of RAM 13:25:05 I mean, it's big, but I think Big means something... a bit more than "you need TWO servers!!"? 13:25:12 it's the "indexes" bit that sold me, though 13:25:18 I guess so, fair enough. 13:25:23 like, how much disk space would you need to store the raw data for a database with 224GB of indexes 13:25:28 actually I guess it depends on how many indexes you have 13:25:44 I don't feel like database rows are usually that huge. 13:25:47 Does underlambda have integer division 13:26:27 it doesn't even have integer addition yet 13:26:31 or, well, it's easy enough to build it by hand 13:26:41 the same way as in underload 13:26:52 but it took me months just to figure out the I/O primitives 13:27:28 I think addition, subtraction, multiplication, division/modulus are going to be high-tier primitives, though 13:27:28 not sure if div and mod should be one operation or two 13:27:45 You could just split the search range recursively 13:27:53 I'm saying all this without knowing what underlambda is 13:28:33 Jafet: underlambda is a project of mine to cross-interpret as many esolangs as possible to and from 13:28:46 basically, it's a range of languages, each of which is a superset of the ones below 13:28:55 and higher tier languages compile into lower tier languages 13:29:11 the higher tier languages are intended to be reasonably pleasant to write in, if esoteric (think Funge-98) 13:29:16 the lower tier languages are intended to be easy to implement 13:29:27 Oh, the r3.8x instance now offers 244GiB. 13:29:41 !blsq 244fC 13:29:41 | {2 2 61} 13:30:48 maybe Amazon have some reason to be a little under 256GiB 13:31:57 -!- anamaria1 has left. 13:31:57 ais523: because the systems are virtualised, say? 13:32:00 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 13:32:05 ais523: because the systems are virtualised, say? 13:32:09 that leaves 12 gigabytes of RAM for the hypervisor 13:32:21 that would make sense 13:32:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:32:31 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 13:32:33 I think when you get an instance that large you get the entirety of one physical box 13:32:37 (but you still run in Xen on it) 13:32:52 I'm not sure whether the amount of RAM hypervisors needs scales with the size of the OSes they're managing 13:33:02 12 gigabytes seems like maybe a lot, but I guess it's probably needed for keeping track of all that RAM in internal structures and stuff 13:33:13 yeah 13:33:26 they probably have fancy stuff on the boxes that needs RAM, anyway 13:37:59 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 13:41:25 !blsq 256 20 2**.*4./ 13:41:25 | 25600 13:41:33 !blsq 256 2 20**.*4./ 13:41:33 | 67108864 13:43:12 !blsq %s=1024 "~ -> ~"|[%s? %s? 1024 ?/]|f~ 13:43:12 | "1024 -> 1" 13:56:55 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:57:41 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 14:13:03 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:16:47 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 14:38:43 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:44:49 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:58:20 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 15:16:08 -!- nycs has joined. 15:16:11 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:17:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:23:27 -!- oren has joined. 15:30:59 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 15:37:11 So it should be possible to translate some languages to otherslosslessly 15:38:45 ?? 15:38:51 programming languages or natural languages? 15:39:01 programming languages 15:39:14 yeah without interpretive overhead 15:40:09 if the set of primitive commands is the same but their syntax is different 15:40:54 but the definition of "primitive commands" can be made more general 15:42:18 But the key is, "losslessly" includes both loss of speed, and also loss of comprehensibility by humans 15:42:34 i dont think you should factor in "comprehensibility by humans" 15:43:02 Why not? 15:43:04 you loose variable names when translating to brainfuck 15:43:22 you will generally lose efificency too 15:43:25 Exactly, but not when translating to, say, C 15:43:40 well yeah 15:43:51 So that is a loss of human-readablity 15:44:09 So which languages are compatible in this manner? 15:44:39 I think, for starters, C# and VB.net are 15:44:54 ruby, python, perl , php 15:44:57 all equivalent 15:45:13 there are differences in object models there 15:45:19 that you'd have to model in a kind of ugly way 15:45:24 php loses the array-hash distinction 15:45:46 almost no two real languages are going to be exactly compatible in this way 15:45:53 but plenty of them have large, practical subsets which are 15:46:43 obviously brainfuck and ook 15:46:56 obviously? 15:47:00 and all the other "Hey I'm a new esolang but it's just brainfuck using different symbols" 15:47:15 int-e: Yes, I think that's the word for it. 15:47:22 [-]Ook! is a brainfuck program 15:47:49 it's probably also an Ook program 15:47:58 Ook [-] polyglots should be really easy 15:48:03 OOk Brainfuck 15:48:06 OOOOOKK!K!KK!K! 15:49:33 I guess you can encode the non-brainfuck operators as whitespace. 15:50:51 How human-readable. 15:50:52 Ook! doesn't have much leeway in its syntax. 15:50:54 I guess translating C to C++ is pretty loss-lessy 15:50:56 and readable 15:51:41 the other way around, though... 15:51:51 C++ written by me is translatable to C 15:51:52 (yeah, I know that's how C++ started out.) 15:52:01 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibility_of_C_and_C%2B%2B#Constructs_valid_in_C_but_not_in_C.2B.2B 15:52:07 in particular it's pretty much exactly impossible for C++ -> C 15:52:15 because you have to erase templates 15:52:18 because the only features of C++ I use are vector and string 15:52:24 so it's no bijective 15:52:26 C just isn't powerful enough for the translation 15:52:30 but oren didn't ask for bijections! 15:52:35 right 15:53:29 -!- adu has joined. 15:59:03 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 16:04:12 -!- mihow has joined. 16:05:16 -!- booly-yam-6332 has joined. 16:06:09 -!- booly-yam-6332 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:06:55 -!- booly-yam-6445 has joined. 16:08:31 web.Tripwire: points -21.40, score 6.55, rank 47/47 16:10:48 web.Tripwire_M2: points -22.19, score 6.04, rank 47/47 16:12:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:13:16 Is there a word for speaking another language so that someone can't butt in? 16:13:44 encryption 16:14:08 I mean a natural language. 16:15:03 web.HyperShudder: points -4.45, score 15.71, rank 42/47 16:15:25 I have realized that my parents talk about me when they are speaking French 16:16:02 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker 16:16:23 oren: so you know which language to study next :P 16:17:03 oren: haskell 16:17:10 okay you already said natural language 16:17:24 this channel must be pretty weird if you don't know haskell though 16:18:32 -!- S1 has joined. 16:19:51 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 16:20:38 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 16:24:21 This channel is just #haskell in disguise. 16:24:39 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:28:09 `quote #haskell 16:28:11 388) ive been in #haskell and #agda primarily, recently So is #agda now full of dependently-typed gay sex? 16:30:19 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 16:30:48 `? mroman 16:30:48 it was always full of dependently-typed gay sex 16:30:49 mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. He invented the identity function. 16:30:49 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 16:31:07 Right. 16:31:08 password security?? 16:31:14 Exactly 16:31:17 For example 16:31:18 could oyu check my password or me 16:31:20 for 16:31:29 instead of using your real name as a username and your date of birth as the password 16:31:39 you should use your date of birth as the username and your real name as the password 16:32:17 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 16:33:06 -!- ofjjf has joined. 16:33:19 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:33:20 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 16:33:33 lol 16:34:03 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 16:34:16 -!- shikhin has changed nick to laewspeaker. 16:34:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:34:26 -!- mroman has changed nick to loudspeaker. 16:34:29 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 16:34:48 -!- laewspeaker has changed nick to shikhin. 16:36:01 for stuff that doesn't matter, I use my favorite pokemon as the password. If someone knows my favorte pokemon, they're probably my friend anyway 16:36:16 favorte pokemon is orenball 16:36:26 hm 16:36:34 a regex that muches pokemons but not digimons 16:36:38 muches 16:36:39 jesus 16:36:41 matches 16:37:22 fungot, what is oren's favourite pokémon 16:37:22 b_jonas: and apparently if you fail, try mzscheme.... 16:37:42 fungot, pokemon 16:37:42 vanila: f! " i knew mathematicians don't like vacuous jargons as the unix perl programing morons" 16:37:49 f! 16:37:50 ^style 16:37:50 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 16:38:00 ^style qwantz 16:38:00 Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) 16:38:04 fungot: pokemon 16:38:04 loudspeaker: but a good one! it's funny this one time in high school, a friend, but i have a problem, t-rex? 16:38:13 fungot: is it the charizard? 16:38:14 b_jonas: but, it's this crazy/ wacky issue settled first, but it's a more familiar feeling, but never one to believe in love at all. 16:38:14 -!- fractal has joined. 16:38:24 `8-ball is it the charizard? 16:38:24 Better not tell you now. 16:38:35 ^bool 16:38:35 No. 16:38:46 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 16:38:47 ^bool Do I have cancer? 16:38:52 hm 16:38:54 ^bool 16:38:54 Yes. 16:38:57 Damn 16:39:08 ^8ball 16:39:08 No. 16:39:13 ^8ball 16:39:13 No. 16:39:15 ^8ball 16:39:15 No. 16:39:23 ^8ball Um, What 16:39:23 No. 16:39:28 damn it 16:39:31 ^8ball Do I really have cancer? 16:39:31 ^8ball 16:39:32 No. 16:39:32 No. 16:39:35 ^8ball 16:39:35 No. 16:39:42 ^bool^bool^bool 16:39:44 ^8ball Are you lying about me really not having cancer? 16:39:45 Yes. 16:39:47 crap 16:39:48 I think it's broken 16:40:13 ^8ball a 16:40:13 Yes. 16:40:15 ^8ball a a 16:40:15 No. 16:40:16 ^8ball a a a 16:40:16 Yes. 16:40:17 ^8ball a a a a 16:40:17 No. 16:40:18 ^8ball a a a a a 16:40:18 Yes. 16:40:38 ^8ball fungot 16:40:38 Yes. 16:40:43 ^8ball are you just counting words? 16:40:44 No. 16:41:01 ^8ball you are just counting my words? 16:41:01 No. 16:41:19 ^8ball AAAAAAAAAAAA 16:41:19 No. 16:41:33 ^ 16:41:39 ^^ 16:41:47 ^8 16:41:57 rand 16:41:59 ^rand 16:42:05 ^bool 16:42:05 Yes. 16:42:07 ^bool 16:42:07 No. 16:42:40 So apparently a random boolean can in fact encourage insanity 16:43:23 Insanity is a random boolean. 16:43:26 fungot, random boolean emerge 16:43:26 vanila: i i guess and his skin, and all i memorized was how to cook a meal! oh, i wasn't talking about you here, i have and now god's in on it too, utahraptor 16:43:43 utahraptor 16:43:58 You know... the kind of raptors only found in Utah. 16:44:26 ^style 16:44:27 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube 16:44:54 is europarl what i think it is? 16:45:19 is it the european parliament? 16:45:48 ^style europarl 16:45:48 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 16:45:52 !fungot: do you wear heavy armor? 16:45:53 nice 16:45:54 b_jonas: mr president, ' in a debate which touches on the foundations of the internal market, prompted by the recent amendment passed by the greek government has particular wishes, it will not fall over? we can start with this point so that we can act on its own, no matter where it is to syria's advantage. the war in former yugoslavia or countries stricken by natural disasters or to other victims. in fact it remains difficult, 16:45:59 how do you add a corpus to fungot? 16:46:00 coppro: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, i welcome the amendments tabled by the committee on women' s health as a result of the referendum in western sahara in the short and medium distances, the railway is declining, and that is my response on behalf of information policy of the commission. 16:46:40 ^style youtube 16:46:41 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 16:46:44 -!- hoosieree has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:46:50 fungot, pleased to meet you 16:46:51 vanila: this crash. unfortunately it was manned. ignore him. 16:47:10 fungot 16:47:10 oren: wtf, way to go ahead and prove it, i won't. it could be a cast member for snl. 16:47:11 coppro: how can you care about such things when the railway is declining! 16:47:29 fungot, epic roof jump 16:47:30 vanila: avril lavigne? if it's been that way since about 11:45 pm. i don't care, i was going to become a cast member 16:47:30 It's not counting words. 16:47:30 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 16:47:50 It is, however, based on the parity of the sum of all input bytes, if I remember right. 16:49:08 ^style agora 16:49:08 Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical) 16:49:15 fungot 16:49:15 oren: the registrar may change the probability of selecting that option. 16:49:26 fungot 16:49:26 oren: iv) its recordkeepor; and sane. the 16:49:48 ^style ff7 16:49:48 Selected style: ff7 (Full script of the game Final Fantasy VII) 16:49:57 awesome fungot 16:49:57 oren: just once, long ago, about being in soldier? you don't think they'd stand up to the beach! there are 2 angles to choose, i'd be good at escaping... 16:50:12 fungot 16:50:12 oren: that's why we decided to help! my strange and wonderful little place. it's a reunion of childhood pals! 16:50:19 fungot: Sounds nice. 16:50:20 fizzie: i'm all right, that's not what i do feel a little cold. 16:50:52 so apparently in 1996, the Ontario legislature shrank by about 30 members. The law that did this was called the Fewer Politicians Act. 16:51:09 coppro: wow 16:51:23 good 16:51:31 We need an Even Fewer Politicians ACT 16:51:37 good start, but I'm impressed that politicians would go for it 16:51:40 ^8ball 16:51:40 No. 16:51:57 There's a distinct lack lf "reply hazy, try again" here. 16:52:20 but I guess the remaining polticians are now receiving more money because their responsibilities have grown so much 16:52:35 ^8ball 16:52:35 No. 16:52:42 ^8ball 16:52:42 No. 16:52:43 ^8ball 16:52:43 No. 16:52:48 ... I see a pattern there 16:53:04 ^8ball perhaps it depends on the question? 16:53:05 No. 16:53:14 ^8ball perhaps it doesn't depend on the question? 16:53:14 Yes. 16:53:20 ^8ball perhaps it doesn't depend on the question? 16:53:20 Yes. 16:53:33 ^8ball 123 16:53:34 No. 16:53:35 ^8ball 1233 16:53:35 Yes. 16:53:36 ^8ball 12333 16:53:36 No. 16:53:37 ^8ball 123333 16:53:37 Yes. 16:53:50 partity of length? 16:53:58 ^8ball Hi! 16:53:58 No. 16:54:05 ^8ball Hi!! 16:54:05 Yes. 16:54:23 int-e: I just told what it depends on. 16:54:43 ^8ball aaa 16:54:43 Yes. 16:54:44 ^8ball aab 16:54:44 No. 16:54:44 ^8ball aac 16:54:45 Yes. 16:54:46 ^8ball aad 16:54:46 No. 16:54:47 ^8ball aae 16:54:47 Yes. 16:54:49 ^8ball aaf 16:54:49 No. 16:54:52 And so on. 16:54:54 okay!!!!1eleven 16:56:06 fizzie: how's amazon? 16:56:27 ^8ball amazon? 16:56:28 Yes. 16:57:19 -!- glguy has joined. 16:58:03 I wouldn't know about Amazon. 16:58:11 I think it's quite tropical. 16:58:31 ^8ball 16:58:32 No. 16:59:43 ^8ball no 16:59:43 Yes. 16:59:47 ^8ball yes 16:59:47 Yes. 16:59:53 ^8ball Yes. 16:59:53 Yes. 17:00:06 We appear to have reached a fixed point. 17:00:31 Thanks to how ASCII is laid out, any change that only affects upper/lowercase (at least for a..z) will never affect the result. 17:01:28 and . has an even ASCII code as well, 46 :) 17:02:00 As has ' '. 17:02:15 But not ? 17:02:23 ^8ball No? 17:02:24 No. 17:02:57 Right. But , does. So you can do quite a lot w.r.t. whitespace and punctuation. 17:03:07 ^8ball like this 17:03:07 Yes. 17:03:11 ^8ball Like, this. 17:03:11 Yes. 17:05:28 But why?! 17:06:04 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:06:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:06:29 ^8ball Like this. 17:06:29 Yes. 17:06:36 ^8ball q? 17:06:36 No. 17:09:04 There is actually something I'd like to say, and I think it's quite likely I might be allowed to say it, but I'm not 100% sure about that, and you never know about these things. 17:11:06 [wiki] [[German]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41718&oldid=38607 * 151.188.17.247 * (+82) Undo revision 24609 by [[Special:Contributions/97.113.234.143|97.113.234.143]] ([[User talk:97.113.234.143|talk]]) 17:14:31 Yes I too beleive recent advancements in technology are suspiciously geared towards facilitating the dominance of bees. 17:14:43 [wiki] [[Malbolge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41719&oldid=38250 * 151.188.17.247 * (-6461) fuck you bitches 17:15:17 And those who speak up against the hives are liable to get stung. 17:15:41 [wiki] [[Malbolge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41720&oldid=41719 * 151.188.17.247 * (+215784) 17:16:33 Whatever you say, I'm fairly sure you'll come off at least as more sensible than 151.188.17.247. 17:19:43 Looks like someone wants to fork Record Management Services. 17:20:14 oh charming 17:20:45 uh 17:20:47 is my assistance required 17:21:19 If you're the guy to revert stuff, I would think so. 17:21:27 [wiki] [[Malbolge]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41721&oldid=41720 * Ehird * (-209323) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/151.188.17.247|151.188.17.247]] ([[User talk:151.188.17.247|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:82.35.233.39|82.35.233.39]] 17:22:03 I'm close enough 17:22:24 [wiki] [[German]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41722&oldid=41718 * Ehird * (-82) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/151.188.17.247|151.188.17.247]] ([[User talk:151.188.17.247|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:78.10.83.44|78.10.83.44]] 17:22:38 tbh I'm not sure I want to block them 17:22:43 what hilarious edit will they come up with next 17:23:12 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:78.10.83.44]] with an expiry time of 1 day (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): promoting to sysop for highly valuable contributions to the wiki; please leave a note on your talk page if you're not up to accepting this responsibility 17:23:58 -!- fractal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 17:25:02 elliott: I'm confused, is that the IP you meant to block? 17:25:11 uh 17:25:11 lol 17:25:12 whoops 17:25:24 I'M COMPETENT OKAY 17:25:38 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] unblock * Ehird * unblocked User:78.10.83.44: revoking sysop access; turns out you're not the valuable contributor in question 17:25:50 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:151.188.17.247]] with an expiry time of 2 hours (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): promoting to sysop for highly valuable contributions to the wiki; please leave a note on your talk page if you're not up to accepting this responsibility 17:26:15 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:Ehird]] with an expiry time of 10 minutes (autoblock disabled): useless admin 17:34:00 anyone here who's not connecting from a university, is JSTOR generally open-access? 17:34:26 it's hard to tell because the connection here has rights to pretty much all the major journals already paid up 17:34:39 I don't think it's "generally" that. 17:34:51 Although it's hard to tell from here either. 17:35:03 It depends, a lot of the older ('public domain') materials are now free, but require an account. 17:35:17 -!- vanila has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:35:44 ah right 17:35:44 ais523: aaron swartz rather famously tried to make it so :/ 17:35:55 (so: no, sadly.) 17:35:59 I'm trying to figure out if JSTOR links are useful to people generally, my guess is no 17:36:14 also I didn't realise that that was the publisher he was mass-downloading from 17:36:28 -!- Melvar` has joined. 17:37:23 "open access" is when authors pay a 4 digit figure for a journal article to be freely downloadable later. 17:37:25 ais523: I get reliable access through Tor exits, though I'm not sure if tor2web (another aaronsw project..) permits circuit selection. https://gist.github.com/fmap/7c22bb6f382777dbdf96 17:37:47 int-e: often, yes :-( 17:37:53 there has to be a better way, really 17:38:04 I've taken to preferentially citing sources that are freely available online 17:38:05 I think IEEE wanted $1750 to make my IEEE journal article free. 17:38:09 oh there are some people trying. 17:38:12 technical reports, PhD theses, and the like 17:38:32 like lipics for computer science 17:38:48 wow, JSTOR is pretty overbearing for a nonprofit 17:38:51 you export a citation 17:38:58 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:39:05 -!- Jander has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat). 17:39:07 and it comes with /three/ sets of "this is copyright JSTOR stuff with terms and conditions" comments, in the citation 17:39:08 `relcome Qfwfq 17:39:09 ​Qfwfq: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:39:11 But there's a lot of prejudices to overcome, and a lot of pseudo-objective statistics (impact factor) to actually get academics to publish there... 17:39:12 (hi, I don't think I've seen you around before) 17:39:19 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:39:37 elliott: Hi, yorick suggested I visit. 17:39:54 wow, visitors from lurkers 17:40:03 -!- fractal has joined. 17:40:32 ais523: They have plans for "people enthusiastic about research (whether personal or professional), but who do not belong to a university, organization, or public library with access to JSTOR". 17:40:33 Hamlet, hmm. 17:40:36 Well, if the conversations sufficiently high-calibre, that's usually motivation enough. 17:40:51 ais523: You just pay $19.50/month or $199/year for a "JPASS", you see. 17:41:02 Qfwfq: well, yes, if only that property held of this channel... >_> 17:41:11 fizzie: ACM wanted $1700 ($1300 for members)... 17:41:14 :-D 17:41:34 int-e: Maybe they've standardized prices. 17:41:35 (although I guess someone with the username "fmap" will probably fit in here.) 17:42:33 fizzie: hmm, sadly, those prices are a lot less ridiculous than I expected 17:42:59 (I mean, it's sad that I expected them to be more) 17:43:21 ais523: The ridiculousness is in the restrictions. You can read an unlimited number of full-texts in the (1800+) journals included in the collection, but you can "save" only up to 10/month. 17:43:58 lest you be tempted to free them 17:44:47 "Register for a MyJSTOR account to receive free, read-only access to as many as 3 articles at a time for a 2-week minimum." 17:44:53 Read-only, as opposed to read-write. 17:44:59 oh right, that deal at the end 17:45:00 oh, I've never heard of this. "Pianist André Tchaikowsky donated his skull to the Royal Shakespeare Company for use in theatrical productions, hoping that it would be used as the skull of Yorick." 17:45:09 actually that's much much better than most journals are 17:45:19 That's kind of cool, in a creepy way. 17:45:41 -!- booly-yam-6445_ has joined. 17:45:42 although IIRC it used to be 4 at a time, with the two-week waiting period before you can un-checkout a paper to read another 17:45:47 int-e: and do they? 17:45:53 -!- oren has joined. 17:45:59 ais523: according to wikipedia, yes they do. 17:46:25 hmm, sort of. 17:46:35 donating my skull to the royal shakespeare company but not to be yorick or anything, just in case they need a cool-ass skull to give off some spooky fucking ambience 17:47:24 -!- booly-yam-6445 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:47:26 ais523: oh well, read for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorick 17:48:10 I guess Tchaikowsky would be disappointed. 17:48:59 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 17:49:08 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:49:51 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 17:50:27 anyway, I'm busy reading the proof that diophantine equations are TC 17:50:38 because it came up tangentially in my thesis 17:52:22 ais523: do you mean the proof comes up? or just the result as a black box? 17:52:50 int-e: well: In 2008, Tchaikowsky's skull was used by David Tennant in an RSC production of Hamlet at the Courtyard Theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon.[8] 17:52:54 also, hello 17:53:01 b_jonas: result as a black box 17:53:02 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Tennant_and_Tchaikowsky_as_Hamlet_and_Yorick.jpg this is a really good filename 17:53:07 ok 17:53:11 or rather, it's a result I had to dodge 17:53:53 I basically have a bunch of inequalities which use +, ×, and less-than-or-equal (why is that not on my compose key) 17:53:56 on nonnegative integers 17:54:02 and need to prove that in general this is decidable 17:54:20 obviously it isn't with no restrictions, and I was citing that result to show that it isn't with no restrictions 17:54:25 but I have a bunch of restrictions I can benefit from 17:54:27 um, on what domains of the variables and the constants? 17:54:36 nonnegative integers, for both 17:54:43 ok 17:55:03 isn't there some other theorem about something like this too? 17:55:40 also something I discovered in my recent citation chasing (PhD is due at the end of the month): one of the lambda calculi (think it was typed, but it might have been untyped), and Church numerals, were published in the same paper 17:55:54 due at end of month? great 17:56:34 Mine was "due" at end of last year and I didn't actually do it; now I get nag emails every so often about finishing it. 17:56:45 fizzie: oh, I've heard that terrible things happen if I'm even marginally late 17:56:48 it probably varies by institution 17:57:31 I don't think anything terrible will happen if I finish mine during, say, the first half of 2015. 17:57:56 (I'll get back to it "real soon now", there's just been too much hassle about moving and stuff.) 17:58:08 (At least that's the excuse I gave to the last nag email.) 17:58:17 fizzie: but doesn't the thesis like keep levelling up and become harder to get the more you wait? 17:59:18 b_jonas: Well, they told me that every week of not working on it makes it take X units of time more when I eventually do. 17:59:29 (Where X was something like two weeks or a month.) 17:59:40 yeah 18:00:03 I think it has a level limit though after which it doesn't get any harder 18:00:10 s/limit/cap/ 18:00:22 Yes, I think that's very common in most MMORPGs. 18:00:25 Welp, going to the shop. -> 18:01:29 -!- ofjjf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:02:35 the level cap also means they're not turing complete 18:03:36 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 18:06:57 what is a good cinnamon for abstract? 18:07:50 what 18:08:08 notional 18:08:18 conceptual 18:08:33 cinnamons for abstract. 18:08:53 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 18:09:17 So yeah I'm gonna call my language "notional cinnamon" 18:09:36 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 18:09:40 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:10:07 nocin for short 18:10:18 oren there's this thing where to communicate with people you have to use a language both of you understand 18:10:38 cinnamon sounds like synonym 18:10:57 yeah I figured that out after I decided that you were making answering your question sufficiently difficult that I didn't care to :P 18:12:23 elliott: very eloquent use of stuff 'n things there, dude 18:12:40 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 18:12:55 So anyway the language has no syntax or grammar, it takes a stream of abstract 'symbols' which are currently implemented as words but could be subsituted 18:13:44 ("Words are failing me to express how eloquent I'm feeling today.") 18:14:32 the idea was to produce a "core" to which several syntaces could be converted 18:15:28 -!- int-e has set topic: Eloquent Cinnamon | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:17:06 oren: Are those apple cores? Apples go well with cinnamon. 18:18:53 -!- glguy has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"). 18:21:13 So for example, the "english math" syntax i am working on could be seamlessly exchanged for a "chinese" syntax 18:21:41 the interpreter would not need to know 18:23:54 The maker of code that needs to interoperate would need to provide symbol bindings for the new syntax though 18:25:21 -!- GeekDude has joined. 18:25:31 The fallback symbol bindings are just numbers 18:30:36 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 18:38:21 oren: that sort of syntactic translation was something cyclexa was meant to do 18:38:31 but I decided cyclexa was probably beyond my abilities when I tried and failed to write a parser 18:39:48 more recently, I realised that cyclexa has worrying similarities to Ursala's expression syntax 18:39:59 they both aimed at the same goal, and achieved it in much the same way 18:40:09 and the result is an unreadable mess, as is usual for esolangs 18:40:32 Currently i am only working on the backend 18:41:06 Each frontend can have arbitrary code which provides the symbol stream 18:42:52 The default syntax (a series of words which are codes for symbols) would be pretty unreadable 18:44:43 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:45:27 -!- SuperJedi224 has joined. 18:45:41 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 18:46:32 !ztest test >++[-.]<(>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<++)*4<--(>(+)*17>(-)*17)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 18:46:32 SuperJedi224.test: points -0.98, score 20.22, rank 19/47 18:46:59 !zjoust Hyper >++[-.]<(>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<++)*4<--(>(+)*17>(-)*17)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 18:47:00 SuperJedi224.Hyper: points -0.98, score 20.22, rank 19/47 18:47:33 fizzie: is zemhill still broken? 18:47:48 Don't know, it seems to be working. 18:48:09 array make set A number one push A set 1 18:48:38 whoops. set one 18:48:55 It seems to have a limit of 47 programs on the list at a time though. 18:50:38 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:54:56 -!- SopaXorzTaker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:55:00 -!- SuperJedi224 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:00:48 -!- hjulle has joined. 19:04:38 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). 19:05:10 -!- GeekDude has joined. 19:07:56 -!- GeekDude has quit (Client Quit). 19:08:45 -!- GeekDude has joined. 19:08:51 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 19:08:52 -!- GeekDude has joined. 19:09:38 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:10:16 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 19:10:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 19:12:01 -!- nycs has joined. 19:12:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:14:30 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:16:59 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 19:20:02 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:20:11 is 2^256 large enough for the maximum number of variable names 19:21:26 54 letters 19:21:36 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 19:21:38 hmm, could be better 19:22:32 how long are variable names allowed to be in C 19:23:57 hmm... or should i just do bignums and to hell with it 19:25:47 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:26:39 elliott: I upgraded the things. You know, those things. 19:26:47 elliott: So it's possible it has gotten fixed. 19:26:54 elliott: On the other hand, it's also possible it's not. 19:27:47 Is there a test sweet for zemhill? 19:28:16 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 19:30:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:33:22 -!- Tritonio_ has changed nick to Tritonio. 19:35:18 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 19:35:54 -!- GeekDude has joined. 19:36:33 -!- booly-yam-6445_ has quit (K-Lined). 19:42:16 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 19:45:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:45:47 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:48:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 19:50:50 b_jonas: *sigh* heavenly nostrils started out great but now it's full of reruns, sigh. 19:51:30 int-e: I dunno, I think either it didn't really start out great, or I just can't help thinking of Ozy and Millie with nostalgia 19:51:37 and see only the recycled jokes in Heavenly Nostrils 19:51:44 also, did it really get renamed? 19:52:06 Yes, apparently. I'd never heard of it before you brought it up. 19:52:27 And I didn't think of Ozy and Millie, but of Calvin and Hobbes. Of course that's not coincidence... 19:52:29 let's go back and read http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/comic/millie/ 19:53:04 Ozy and Millie is the obvious comparision because it's by the same author (Dana) and of similar style 19:54:01 Ah, I didn't make the connection. 19:54:34 Nevertheless, Bill Watterson has been a great influence on Dana. 19:54:48 int-e: certainly 19:54:54 -!- nys has joined. 19:54:54 there's at least one explicit reference 19:55:20 http://russell2.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/comic/millie/comic?n=20000713 19:55:56 oh bleh 19:56:10 I'm looking for the original papers defining system F (two authors found it independently) 19:56:26 one of them is /probably/ Jean-Yves Girard's thesis, but all the online copies seem to be corrupted 19:56:39 too short and end "foo..bar" as a nonsequitur, I suspect there are problems earlier too 19:56:56 also I find it hard to follow because my French isn't all that perfect 19:57:28 b_jonas: http://i.imgur.com/PhP80yD.gif is the most blatant one in Heavenly Nostrils. 20:03:18 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 20:20:05 -!- oren has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:39:51 -!- oren has joined. 20:43:16 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 20:54:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:59:48 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:24:15 -!- skj3gg has joined. 21:29:33 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 21:39:21 -!- ProofTechnique has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:44:52 -!- h0rsep0wer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:07:41 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined. 22:08:09 -!- skj3gg has quit (Quit: welp, see you later.). 22:08:18 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:09:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:36:20 Um, what? 17:26 . . Ehird (Talk | contribs) blocked Ehird (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of 10 minutes (autoblock disabled) ‎(useless admin) 22:36:37 I'm a useless sysop who blocks the wrong people and I deserve punishment 22:38:01 -!- ProofTechnique has joined. 22:39:48 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 22:44:26 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:47:51 mistakes were made and mended. nobody got hurt. much. 22:52:37 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:55:15 -!- boily has joined. 22:58:11 so I have spent an hour listening to Julius Fucik. I forget why. 22:59:01 Whoops, that should be Fučík 22:59:09 I don't fucikng know :D 22:59:11 sorry. 22:59:30 helloren. helliott. 22:59:51 is helliott anything like a hellion 22:59:55 He wrote the famous circus music "entry of the gladiators" 23:00:22 welcome to helloily, behold the devoily? 23:01:18 elliott: do you consider yourself to be a Hell Creature? do you thrive in flames? 23:01:22 i don't want to be oily 23:01:28 boily: yes. 23:01:35 boily: tbh I'm more of an... uh 23:01:38 I didn't even know about Heavenly Nostrils, but wasn't there already a third comic before that which repeated Ozy & Millie jokes? 23:01:43 fuck I forget crawl demons. let's say neqoxec 23:01:45 however you spell it 23:01:57 I think there's another one of the 3s I like the name of though 23:02:04 maybe it isn't a 3 any more. I think they changed them around again 23:02:08 it's spelled like that. I tend to avoid neqoxec unless I can strike them before they do. 23:02:24 what're the 1s called. what did fiend become again. god, I've forgotten so much 23:02:26 I haven't played dcss in quite some time. I got sidetracked by some cubes. and more cubes. 23:02:35 I didn't even play until after they renamed fiend but all I can remember is fiend 23:02:40 I know there's hell sentinels but what's the fiery 1 23:02:52 they renamed the fiends? blasphemy! 23:02:52 brimstone fiend. that's it 23:02:58 no see brimstone fiend used to just be 23:03:00 Fiend. with a capital F 23:03:07 and also, the numbers demons were on used to make no sense whatsoever 23:03:07 oh fungot do I hate the fiends. 23:03:07 boily: that's why i have to cross when the stars can hear us? did you see his 48 years would only be given to me all the dresses. 23:03:18 2s are... reapers, tormentors, hellions, what else 23:03:26 oh, you're talking about even older dcss than I remember. 23:03:31 lorocyproca maybe 23:03:34 eh... hell beasts are 2s also, I think. 23:03:38 oh yeah 23:03:40 why are they 2s 23:03:46 they're like big yaks 23:03:46 ah, the loroes. background noise. 23:03:57 not yaks. the trampling Y 23:03:59 big death yaks from hell, but nothing to worry about. 23:04:43 4s I don't know. there's like red demon and orange demon and other crap nobody cares about 23:04:58 5s is uh. ufetubi, imps, ?? other things ?? 23:05:05 that one really useless one that does nothing. or maybe that's just ufetubi 23:05:14 hi this is a channel about dungeon crawl stone soup now 23:05:51 well, 5s are annoying when they're spawned by ynoxinules. 23:06:07 ynoxinuls have the loveliest name <3 those are a 3, right 23:06:08 (or is it ynoxinuls? demonic plurals are hard.) 23:06:10 I forgot about them 23:06:15 yup. 3. 23:06:24 crawl has some really good names 23:06:32 I like the sixfirhys. they're unusual. 23:06:40 kikubaaqudgha, ereshkigal, oh yes sixfirhys 23:06:42 (or sixfirhies. damned plurals.) 23:06:44 sixfirhies? 23:07:21 23:07:18 sixfirhy[5/5]: Occurs halfway between 6:00 and 7:00 23:07:23 the fun of planning a raid against a unique &... 23:07:40 * boily facepalms. aaaaaaaaaurgh. 23:07:49 ok ereshkigal isn't a name from crawl but whatever 23:07:53 the vile puns in dcss's lore... 23:07:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:07:59 that's not lore, that's just learndb :p 23:08:07 wasn't it inspired from some babylonian divinity? 23:08:10 have you ever played crawl 4.1.2a 23:08:14 you should try it sometime 23:08:19 lore, learndb, HackEgo... 'tis all the same. 23:08:32 like, the Original pre-dcss version? 23:08:40 it's uh 23:08:57 uh? 23:08:58 it's a never-finished alpha version of dcss after linley gave up on it but before dcss happened 23:09:14 it's incredibly unbalanced and unplayable and has only been won once in the decade-ish it's existed 23:09:21 it is also my favourite version of carwl. 23:09:22 crawl. 23:09:42 oh wow, n7 won 4.1?? 23:09:43 quand même. 23:09:45 okay it's been won twice 23:10:17 can't believe I missed that 23:11:19 I may be the only guy left who misses the Hive branch. 23:11:36 yeah, you are 23:11:39 4.1 has it though! 23:11:44 4.1 has eeeeeeverything 23:12:17 welcome... to 4.1... you can do anything... on 4.1... 23:12:51 -!- skj3gg has joined. 23:15:21 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 23:15:32 -!- CrazyM4n_ has joined. 23:16:19 well I'm glad we could have this talk 23:18:16 samely. 23:18:40 please feel free to continue saying things about popular roguelike game dungeon crawl stone soup 23:21:26 I still remember my login infos. time to Gloriously Die in a Creative Manner! 23:21:33 -!- CrazyM4n_ has quit (Quit: sleep). 23:21:54 oh boy 23:21:55 which server 23:21:56 (huh. I had a game, and I'm in Zot:4...) 23:21:58 CAO. 23:21:59 hahaha 23:22:06 ok i gotta see this splat 23:22:09 oh well. BANZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAI! 23:22:14 what is your name 23:22:24 oh, I see 23:22:26 is this hugeterm :/ 23:22:43 can you make your terminal 80x24 so I don't have to buy a new monitor 23:23:03 it's literally taller than my screen 23:23:23 nice vorpal war axe in zot, btw 23:23:57 boily can you ^F axe for me 23:24:02 there has to be a better axe just lying around in the dungeon somewhere 23:24:28 * boily 80x24es... 23:25:28 there, that should do the trick. 23:25:44 it's exactly the same actually :p 23:26:02 seriously though you need to get a new axe 23:26:05 how much axes skill do you have 23:26:27 oh you have 27 23:26:36 boily can you ^F executioner's axe, and then failing that ^F battleaxe 23:26:45 and pick up literally any one of them and it will be so much better than the weapon you're currently using 23:27:05 just a moment... 23:27:13 eeeeh... 23:27:19 go get that draining one blessed at a TSO altar 23:27:21 then you can use it 23:27:26 elliott: what's it, a feather duster? 23:27:26 your weapon is so, so bad :( 23:27:31 int-e: a war axe 23:27:33 beuh... 23:27:50 also just never use shields and axes :p 23:27:50 (meanwhile, oooooh...) 23:27:54 (ftr, I know nothing about the game) 23:27:57 okay that's good 23:28:20 executioner's might be better but eh this has a nice brand and you're not going to bother fetching the executioner's one anyway 23:28:24 int-e: me neither 23:28:39 elliott: could've fooled me 23:28:39 elliott: besides, I can't really executioner that one, it has draining. 23:28:53 like I said I'm pretty sure you can override that by blessing it at a TSO altar 23:29:00 and then you get a holy's executioner axe and kick yourself for not doing extended 23:29:08 unless you've uh, already done extended with a war axe 23:29:22 nah, I haven't extended yet. 23:29:35 and yes, I could TSO the fungot out of that axe. 23:29:35 boily: there's no need for you! tell me? oh, you're late! 23:29:42 fungot: yes, there is a need! 23:29:42 boily: cloud!! sure is cold. 23:29:48 oh are you doing zot before extended 23:29:53 or else why are you with TSO I guess 23:30:12 this is probably annoying. do people want me to take this to another channel 23:30:41 no, not at all. 23:30:50 Ah, I knew "TSO" looked familiar, it's a Thread State Object. 23:30:56 ha 23:31:21 I think I had plans a long time ago. probably going to wrap up that game and start something else. DD is interesting, but I want to go for the new classes and races and gods and everything. 23:31:43 please promise me you'll never use a war axe in zot ever again 23:32:38 given that this is the orb chamber you might wanna heal 23:32:52 I so can use a war axe in zot! common sense be damned! 23:33:13 (you should recharge your healing wand) 23:33:42 I'm so glad "p"eople happened 23:33:52 I think that might have been my idea 23:34:58 throw your war axe at it 23:34:59 ^style 23:34:59 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7* fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:34:59 (don't) 23:36:06 do you hit 5 all the time when playing DD to rest off the HP you can't 23:36:09 because I sure do 23:36:12 what about that fine and dandy axe stays in my own hands... 23:36:14 actually I just don't play DD. or crawl 23:36:42 are you going to teleport out of the orb chamber for fun and profit 23:36:46 please say yes 23:37:44 of course I'm going to teleport like a madman. 23:38:04 tbh at this rate you're going to attract every monster on the level before you get the orb 23:38:08 you're about to die 23:38:20 you should be uh 23:38:24 doing something other than what you're doing 23:38:27 orb guardians are faster than you 23:38:29 ok 23:38:52 death happens. time to roll something! 23:39:04 I admire your spirit but not your play 23:39:15 sorry for not surviving. I couldn't remember my whole character at once. 23:39:22 playing is made to be played. 23:40:02 play cecj of chei 23:40:14 close enough 23:40:18 go chei and find a conj book please 23:40:40 wait, did or did not boily die? 23:40:48 boily died and then started a new game 23:40:55 it was a very silly, avoidable death :P 23:41:01 good 23:41:04 my second win was through chei. 23:41:12 we hate the unavoidable kind, it lacks hilarity 23:41:13 elliott: I know. the appeal of something else was strong. 23:41:14 yes I noticed you played a mifi of chei 23:41:18 I'm not entirely sure why 23:41:27 it was fun! :D 23:41:33 well. I'm happy for you 23:42:07 int-e: you play nethack or something, right? 23:42:59 elliott: tried, died, gave up 23:43:22 oh, okay 23:43:28 I had you mentally filed as roguelike player for some reason 23:43:44 But I found the wiki, so I know what "TSO" stands for now. 23:43:50 the wiki is very bad 23:43:57 very, very bad 23:43:57 elliott: wait. did you just tell me to play a cecj? of chei??? 23:44:03 I know a bit about RPGs and dungeon crawls by osmosis. 23:44:05 boily: yes. 23:44:25 https://loom.shalott.org/learndb.html#tso <- more useful than the wiki 23:44:32 call me unaquainted with the game and some random neophyte, but isn't it really, really bad? 23:44:54 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:45:08 well centaur isn't the worst chei race by far 23:45:12 like, it's a lot better than mifi of chei... 23:45:15 I don't remember centaur magic apts though 23:45:26 probably cecj of chei is just painful at first and then good and painful 23:45:29 mifi of chei is just plain ridiculous in the endgame. 23:45:39 so is mifi of anything else but it isn't slow 23:45:44 did they fix centaur hunger yet >_> 23:45:51 I think they did? 23:46:04 you can play cene of xom that's a classic 23:46:07 *of xom, 23:46:18 please don't play naga of chei ;_; 23:46:27 HA HA HA! 23:46:32 no, probably going vehumet or sif. 23:46:38 thank god 23:47:19 nice D:1 boring beetle...? 23:47:39 you can just avoid it, but... what abad monster placement 23:47:46 *a bad 23:48:14 what the fungot is a boring beetle doing on D:1... 23:48:14 boily: but, something strange just crashed into our truck! 23:48:14 (and why can't I z-a-f...) 23:48:26 uh maybe you ran out of MP or something 23:48:39 don't stand next to a boring beetle on D:1. 23:48:59 -!- adu has joined. 23:49:00 * Sgeo bought Google Cardboard 23:49:00 I did. I was curious. 23:49:06 :p 23:50:01 maybe I should play crawl again 23:50:34 I should probably eat... 23:51:25 aw, is the fun over 23:53:05 Sgeo: a people origami project? "Join the fold"... 23:53:26 (I did ... err ... google for it. So I'm joking.) 23:53:34 yup. time to satiate the thing shaped like me. 23:53:44 how many things shaped like you are there 23:53:56 boily: there's a voodoo doll shaped like you and it has to be fed? 23:54:32 elliott: mirrors are mean duplicators 23:55:18 (oh that reminds me: why do mirrors swap left and right but not up and down?) 23:55:33 -!- hoosieree has joined. 23:55:47 int-e: actual question, or? 23:56:03 elliott: it's a puzzle. not a hard one. 23:56:04 * Sgeo wonders if buying a Note 4 just for the VR experience would be worth it 23:56:09 * elliott nods. 23:56:10 I do want a new phone sometime soon 23:56:31 int-e: that'd be useful to have a nice voodoo doll. I could scratch myself in all the nice parts without dislocating my shoulders. 23:57:02 "all the nice part" 23:57:07 +s 23:58:28 I didn't say, mean, or imply nothing, you pervert. 23:58:47 what happened to eating :p 23:59:22 boily: you could've said "hard to reach" and things would've been just fine... 23:59:34 * int-e digs deeper. 23:59:54 (there has to be a treasure down here somewhere!)