< 1419552012 52962 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust486.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419552014 902153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust486.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1419552014 945486 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419552164 641913 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419552261 180630 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419552274 304991 :mr45_!~mr45@cpc27-hudd10-2-0-cust346.4-1.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419552363 502500 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419552579 555846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1419552579 660307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419552866 722319 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1419554039 763815 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google... grrrrr. < 1419554045 972454 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Our systems have detected unusual traffic from your computer network. This page checks to see if it's really you sending the requests, and not a robot. Why did this happen?" < 1419554070 682203 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm human. I can even solve your captcha, but you won't accept it because I didn't allow your cookie. < 1419554117 267159 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, IP change helped. < 1419554148 310420 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For now) < 1419554238 476885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheer up and look at their christmas doodle < 1419554267 266952 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires javascript? < 1419554285 794849 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, not in the mood < 1419554309 699456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it does, it's animated < 1419554320 566597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with sound < 1419554342 181284 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now I'll definitely not try it out < 1419554349 874909 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the warning < 1419554369 858752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the sound is just a guitar riff, really < 1419554411 305507 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh I have xset -b (un)set because I find computer sounds annoying. < 1419554504 502573 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( for added irony: np: Carnival by Project Pitchfork ) < 1419554512 580083 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419554526 27767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows not who that is < 1419554530 786969 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1419554553 672615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :youtube to the rescue < 1419554569 964145 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter who, just that it's noise coming from the computer < 1419554583 298638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1419554606 707747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were just referring to beeping < 1419554624 906851 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... I made the choice. I requested it. So that makes it ok. < 1419554635 567976 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419554650 205555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to have sound off, but since i moved i have volume set to 20% < 1419554676 233926 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is enough in most cases < 1419554744 120085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx for reminding me to check if google had a christmas doodle btw ;) < 1419554761 854597 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, don't know how to assess that with 3 volume controls in place. The sound card is set at 0.59*0.91... but there's a lot of room for increased volume on the speakers themselves. < 1419554785 505946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1419554813 268731 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, very esoteric and highly interesting. It's not a good day for me. < 1419554900 823614 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite some Harmful Brainfuck Fun (tm) < 1419555079 827927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems hard to make unbalanced loops work in that < 1419555117 215973 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1419555196 847705 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you want an unbalanced loop in your sound system < 1419555225 488954 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru dat < 1419555245 217992 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _may_ have been referring to Harmful Brainfuck < 1419555256 247852 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41543&oldid=41542 5* 03213.162.68.188 5* (+183) 10link to implementation and minimal categories < 1419555272 159116 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1419555333 685135 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought relative jump was implemented before. < 1419555417 256495 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for Oerjan's Cleanup Deed < 1419555444 465756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: who knows what is hiding in the bf derivative category < 1419555469 753485 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a nice pun. < 1419555583 603145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1419555591 459344 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1419555600 896718 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e -----### < 1419555617 612779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e again because he missed a spot -----### < 1419555639 424103 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e again to be sure he got everything -----### < 1419555669 305197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e again because he thought he saw something moving -----### < 1419555749 768342 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that 5th swat was a tad excessive. < 1419555757 414229 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e again because his nose is itching -----### < 1419555761 172053 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what pun? < 1419555764 862253 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note that I carefully avoided the o-word) < 1419555800 156302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oerjan's Cleanup Deed hth < 1419555804 862753 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I meant the "harmful" that alludes to Dijkstra (not really a pun because the word is unchanged) < 1419555830 402020 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that's my story and I'll stick to it. < 1419555842 32724 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is regrettably also in the "has created a bf + goto language" set < 1419555858 445238 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419555870 62724 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats int-e again because he's now claiming to have been intending a different pun, maybe -----### < 1419555897 753170 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh no, I was merely *referring* to a different pun. < 1419555941 132824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1419555950 796310 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sheer modesty, I wouldn't call any of my own puns "good" myself. < 1419555973 664121 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I might say by now that it was pretty effective. < 1419555981 428610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1419555997 236785 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekAfk < 1419556009 737387 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1419556017 327053 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1419556020 196474 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harmful Brainfuck considered harmful < 1419556025 730625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cluid < 1419556047 540620 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ syntax considered harmful < 1419556060 170264 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419556076 573590 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419556088 327980 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempting to mix chinese and japanese and have it make sense considered harmful < 1419556128 787219 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm lion-eating poet in the stone den < 1419556141 975459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "considered harmful" in mixed chinese and japanese twhomn < 1419556169 544854 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419556186 975665 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does japanese have anything like that poem? < 1419556197 4146 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: no < 1419556224 162381 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the "same" word in chinese and japanese means different things < 1419556233 471017 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think japanese has gone through a recent period of losing a lot of its phonetic distinctions < 1419556276 551292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_some_, probably < 1419556278 473538 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jinese? < 1419556293 280173 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: did you see the rot13 program? < 1419556296 19279 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1419556296 832342 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419556307 771956 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Harmful_Brainfuck < 1419556352 329484 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool!! < 1419556353 322448 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, I lost one of your edits when I changed the page earlier, so the phrasing for relative gotos is now different.) < 1419556364 313800 :mr45_!~mr45@cpc27-hudd10-2-0-cust346.4-1.cable.virginm.net PART :#esoteric < 1419556474 378646 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is the japanese stole chinese characters in the middle ages < 1419556516 678933 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, maybe not "stole"... borrowed) < 1419556539 732023 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419556569 723505 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419556608 295527 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the meanings for characters that aren't common have grown apart. especially the ones you'd use to write abstract things like "variable", "program", "scope declaration"... < 1419556639 128779 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419556645 280687 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419556779 511751 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw it i'll just use japanese semantics for now... < 1419556988 295207 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41544&oldid=41543 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+23) 10A somewhat preliminary edit reintroducing general esolang recommendations < 1419557192 844256 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there had to be a rot13 page. < 1419557229 141916 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/YXfd is going to stay up? < 1419557277 518254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it is wise to trust pastebins for permanent storage < 1419557285 29247 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, so is it believed to be TC or not? < 1419557303 443263 :GeekAfk!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1419557304 262 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: exactly. < 1419557313 856727 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: i suspect the matter is under research < 1419557321 62959 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am so confused < 1419557338 316422 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: there's little doubt that it's TC with unbounded cells. < 1419557366 200283 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, because it seems you can translate balanced loops < 1419557389 738012 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's hard to imagine that it fails to be TC even with the cells restricted to -128..127. < 1419557400 941026 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though arbitrary I/O is not possible in that range. < 1419557442 106968 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: I have not seen sprunge delete any pastes yet < 1419557463 479640 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419557477 49341 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1419557486 690923 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact every time you upload a paste it deletes one < 1419557511 624061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: here's a chestnut: can you manage to copy a cell from an unknown position to another? < 1419557529 910898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "unknown"? < 1419557537 280316 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fixed position < 1419557577 744224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is, if you are going to be TC without unbounded cells, you _must_ use code which doesn't know the exact tape position < 1419557620 195400 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going to target something with binary cells. < 1419557622 890254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you cannot precalculate all offsets and keep them in fixed cells < 1419557647 886223 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so conditionals would be [set up offsets in next two cells]*>* < 1419557649 952336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for reducing too, you mean < 1419557652 577447 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1419557655 388628 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1419557676 950291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you go right ahead :) < 1419557681 408275 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have not thought it through. < 1419557707 763918 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never be able to copy arbitrary cells. < 1419557708 579368 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419557719 334868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just thinking that even a simple bf loop like [->+<] can be hard < 1419557735 751506 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the conditional (*) has a value that causes an infinite loop. < 1419557739 910371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and without that, it's hard to move the _offsets_ where you want them. < 1419557753 968189 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1419557797 814215 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with a limited, small range, I see no fundamental reason why it shouldn't work. So TC, with restricted I/O, is entirely plausible. < 1419557831 676315 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419557876 800491 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, unrestricted IO, once the range of cells is large enough so that the whole range (0..255) can be moved to the negative or positive half without overflowing. < 1419557912 492819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea for a fix was to use 9 bit signed cells, range -256..255, which is *barely* enough to satisfy this criterion. < 1419557940 951488 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And slightly awkward because you have to use a backward * for the first test. < 1419558001 147335 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I just see a Christmas tree in North Korea? < 1419558034 676581 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HJj85K_7MQ&t=15m40s < 1419558090 163791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have OXYGEN in north korea?? < 1419558110 708767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought kim jong-un outlawed that to spite america! < 1419558131 90858 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh his generals wouldn't allow that. < 1419558255 262785 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1419558255 488386 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no oxygen is essential for bombs to work, so they're allowed < 1419558258 653092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1419558262 628217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no, < 1419558278 753072 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419558300 959847 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out that you can survive solely on elements that are useful for making weapons < 1419558388 772756 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41545&oldid=41544 5* 03213.162.68.188 5* (+2) 10more permanent URL < 1419558584 82066 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41546&oldid=41545 5* 03213.162.68.188 5* (+5) 10on second thought... < 1419558980 931503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419559424 115613 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419559624 928096 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419559631 242878 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419559639 551750 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much #defining does it take for C to be an esolang? < 1419559646 616934 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419559663 485603 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few going by IOCCC < 1419559674 612721 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419559682 75718 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define zx struct < 1419559794 693599 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not good enough though; IOCCC judges will preprocess and indent the code to see whether that's easier to figure out than the original. < 1419559828 963989 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef wz unsigned < 1419559842 268616 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops; typedef unsigned wz < 1419559844 904046 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So one trick is to have macros that make the code explode. < 1419559972 740738 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/1998/fanf.c is in that category. (it has to be cpp'd twice, and the result is almost 700k in size) < 1419560023 584991 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_OO < 1419560130 985274 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another trick is to make your program not work if it's reindented < 1419560152 102438 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.ioccc.org/1998/schweikh1.c) < 1419560342 527162 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snag.gy/XaoyF.jpg < 1419560603 192721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This code is a wonder; it's a wonder that it compiles." < 1419560649 189632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(replace .c by .hint in any ioccc url) < 1419560841 194516 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, i'm making a C header to write C code as if it were a prayer to some evil god. (well, more then usual, at any rate) < 1419560859 245941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/1991/buzzard.c was another one that would amusingly be destroyed by indentation. < 1419560866 109201 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the clue being this: fopen(x-1?a[1]:"buzzard.c","r"); ) < 1419560887 832138 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reads itself < 1419560949 696951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: nice irc font < 1419561029 217608 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-167.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419561066 615875 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the latest iocccs out yet? < 1419561111 29428 :b_jonas_!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419561135 180757 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419561439 995759 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jjjydcrvzapbwkcl JOIN :#esoteric < 1419561652 557593 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419561696 602277 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1419561705 209530 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de NICK :Melvar < 1419561760 198144 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419561779 180831 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LOWI < 1419561779 463287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 260220Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 FEW050 BKN060 M02/M02 Q1026 < 1419561784 281150 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419561830 777848 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea, language where thingshappen in parallel unless otherwise specified < 1419561940 821019 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not even specified. all ordering happens dring conflict resuolution < 1419561963 191548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419562028 324674 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use optimistic scheduler and execute all statements at once. then we check for conflicts and roll back conflicted statements < 1419562074 517819 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that there is no ordering available < 1419562160 470919 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-167.rentec.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1419562160 554163 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1419562160 866182 :heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-csnjqvrmokijwtfd QUIT :*.net *.split < 1419562161 302087 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :*.net *.split < 1419562166 840905 :heroux_!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-jjjydcrvzapbwkcl NICK :heroux < 1419562312 147270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think something like that exists < 1419562436 276426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Whenever maybe? < 1419562519 208033 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi calclulus? < 1419562544 670835 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little like that. but there isn't explicit conditions. instead, if you have statements like SET x = 1; SET y = x; the second statement has to be exeucted afterward, because the first time, it will be rolled back. < 1419562546 136675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not described as parallel, but i think parallel with rollback gives equivalent results < 1419562632 692302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ok so it's rolled back because x isn't defined yet? < 1419562658 994608 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rolled back because the value of x may have changed while it was being read < 1419562667 787946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1419562675 85093 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it know which one to run first if it rolls back, coinflip? < 1419562682 816209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ought to be easy to implement with haskell's STM < 1419562685 632942 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you could also have SET y = x; SET x = 1; < 1419562817 453521 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it does not need to ollback the x = 1, that operation was fully valid. < 1419562851 858262 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. it left the program in a consistent state < 1419562875 699528 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA0D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1419562882 306916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: so the order of statements in a program matters? < 1419562890 325635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't seem very unordered/"everything in parallel" kinda spirit < 1419562902 70580 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, what I mean is < 1419562903 728382 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the order does not matter < 1419562907 196859 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it decide it needs to do x = 1 then y = x < 1419562909 432604 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than y = x then x = 1 < 1419562924 154547 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because x=1 did not read invalidated data < 1419562935 393446 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SET x = y; SET y = x < 1419562937 156052 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens? < 1419562947 342180 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program loops ofrever < 1419562962 679611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1419562967 740383 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the y and x are forever invalid < 1419562974 963123 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, ok < 1419562982 762821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :SET x = 1; SET y = 2; SET x = y; SET y = x < 1419562983 258754 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1419562983 302085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't fit with haskell STM :( < 1419562995 997453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in that, one of the threads always makes progress) < 1419562999 946419 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect this to end with x=1 y=1 or x=2 y=2 or x=1 y=2 or x=2 y=1 non-deterministically < 1419563006 29695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since those are the consistent orderings < 1419563050 99979 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the program would indeed set x = 1 and y= 2, but then the other statements would always be rolled back < 1419563064 949582 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why < 1419563071 441727 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :databases don't lock up like this < 1419563077 327054 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a bit weird < 1419563101 866327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's synchronized parallel, like befunge's useless threading < 1419563104 686156 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :databases are designed by sane people < 1419563124 257122 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419563150 590115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: what about SET x = 1; SET x = 2; ? < 1419563171 196254 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case both orders are equally valid < 1419563184 998918 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1419563186 211700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they conflict < 1419563190 341733 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is either rolled back? < 1419563197 202200 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :exaclty, lockup! < 1419563207 116447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ok < 1419563208 299604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1419563217 236807 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in the end you end up with a boring linear, deterministic language? :p < 1419563230 759422 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1419563232 467060 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one that is hard to prgram in! < 1419563235 114181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do branches etc. even < 1419563237 696179 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419563253 243984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda seems like you'd have to add a bunch of stuff to not have everything just be lockup fun < 1419563309 519760 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :set up a statement like set x?s=2:t=2; so that it conflicts with one line of statements in one case, or another < 1419563319 452600 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaat, you get conditionals < 1419563321 313034 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*conditionals? < 1419563327 286877 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a little like that. but there isn't explicit conditions." < 1419563339 388085 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419563350 685923 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get conditionals but they READ variables and can thus be inconsisted < 1419563411 237631 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also everything in one statement happens at once, so a statement could even conflict with itself in one case but not the other < 1419563420 588238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1419563455 411641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll leave it to you to write down a precise definition of this hth < 1419563458 664294 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more interested in the language I inferred from your original statements than this one :p < 1419563492 830517 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you infer < 1419563534 164857 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419563562 689986 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something more like what I was surprised it wasn't, I guess < 1419563662 330623 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so instead of a deterministic scheduler, we have a nondeterministic one? < 1419563672 322618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no conditionals < 1419563757 756472 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could have a semideterministic one-- deterministic rollback unless all statements must be rolled, in which case it picks one at random to not roll back. < 1419563880 811312 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419563892 765273 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419563957 631865 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of conditionals, we could have something akin to an attempted if function. < 1419563981 80475 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :both sides are evaluated, it returns one of them < 1419564012 31717 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its too hard to do this in bash so im trying in scheme < 1419564022 777860 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i wanted to do was recursivly list files and sort by size < 1419564026 210372 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do what? < 1419564070 532397 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so e.g. find . -type f -exec du -b {} + | sort doesn't work at all < 1419564072 702415 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try the find command < 1419564143 591494 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to configure the sort command to sort numerically on the right column < 1419564206 286889 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort -n < 1419564216 895382 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sort -nr < 1419564238 175723 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thank you! < 1419564243 150516 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this was just me not being good at bash < 1419564320 756482 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: bash is the only $ language that i rarely regret using < 1419564332 490185 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly always regret it < 1419564363 192677 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i tend to write my regrettable things in PERL < 1419564432 236898 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i have a lotof zero-size files < 1419564613 188372 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I didn't realize: wchar_t is permitted to have the same range as char. < 1419564696 114302 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even uses it? < 1419564711 632080 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows programmers. < 1419564737 860444 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Microsoft C only has char strings in legacy encodings. < 1419564796 722169 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm... WCHAR < 1419564810 79276 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not usefully so either: the set of legacy encodings they support includes wonky multibyte charsets. < 1419564817 115710 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Is #define WCHAR wchar_t. < 1419564839 279061 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The secret to sane handling of the Windows API is to ignore its stupid #defines. < 1419564875 820486 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"typedef unsigned char BYTE;" is a line they thought was useful. < 1419564886 155218 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is useful < 1419564892 657890 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419564901 10745 :paul2520!~paul2520@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419564905 638623 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would rather type BYTE than unsigned char < 1419564934 135964 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully uint8_t! < 1419564951 312127 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw this _t crap < 1419564954 77132 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef int INT; is another good one.. < 1419564990 599102 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* *blink* they did what < 1419564996 291560 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a type LONGLONG. < 1419565002 641399 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It claims to be a 64 bit integer. < 1419565007 107635 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 64 bit platforms, it is. < 1419565014 494808 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 32 bit platforms it's a double. < 1419565020 835619 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419565046 789970 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: meh, close enough < 1419565071 912573 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christ, and I thought zlib had stupid typedefs. < 1419565130 71567 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind their imposing grand confusion as to what Unicode is upon the world. < 1419565163 738033 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a double can support a 52 bit integer. < 1419565176 629103 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is uint8_t really so bad? < 1419565183 218074 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they lost 12 bits, whatever... < 1419565188 682144 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :An x86 long double can support a 64 bit integer, though. < 1419565214 228898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but storing 10 bytes is awkward < 1419565247 769297 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :For more fun, you can load a 64 bit integer into an x87 register, do arithmetic on it, and then store a 64 bit integer. < 1419565254 597057 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also nowadays people prefer to use SSE < 1419565267 74873 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but SSE doesn't give you long doubles. < 1419565269 519667 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :poof, no extended floats < 1419565285 653438 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :same point, different angle ;) < 1419565287 7546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: x87, rather? < 1419565291 125163 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSE is actually faster (from my own experiments) < 1419565302 40910 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: x >= 4 < 1419565305 500076 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that obvious < 1419565326 948873 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "long double" is an extended float type on x86 in general, regardless of whether or not you use x87 otherwise. < 1419565330 111491 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and let's forget about the 486SX thing. < 1419565331 252642 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1419565335 642027 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1419565356 411518 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the weird thing with {u,}int8_t is that they're usually chars < 1419565365 838257 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86_64 or MS-compiled x86, it uses x87 instead for that one type. < 1419565366 74257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that produces weird results with C++ at least, dunno about C < 1419565373 568350 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, consider printing a uint8_t.) < 1419565392 677797 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MS compilers use SSE for floats otherwise) < 1419565438 904775 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: In C you'd use PRIu8 to print it out, so no weird results. < 1419565441 412907 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not a problem in C... %c and %d both deal with int arguments. < 1419565453 116532 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is what they get for left-shifting a file by a character. iostream is crap < 1419565480 272633 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can you remind me in which header those are defined please? < 1419565480 914337 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right. < 1419565486 214832 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: inttypes.h < 1419565486 809723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a problem with C11's _Generic, maybe! < 1419565489 447006 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1419565498 284072 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It is definitely a problem with _Generic. < 1419565557 756102 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION "loves", BTW, that the only way to get relatively human-understandable behavior out of floats on x86 is to use the obscure float_t and double_t types. < 1419565638 539599 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... i really don't know what you mean... < 1419565662 135799 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :float_t and double_t are the types that computations on float and double result in. < 1419565683 165522 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419565687 181485 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :On *sane* implementations, 1.0 + 1.0 results in a double. On x86, 1.0 + 1.0 results in a long double. < 1419565695 840851 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you store it in a double, you get double rounding. < 1419565725 176548 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which results in floating point behaving like magic voodoo. < 1419565730 763962 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should you care what type the result is? < 1419565752 687227 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because rounding a value twice to different precisions can change the value. < 1419565756 600894 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Potentially significantly. < 1419565784 858139 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.0 + 1.0 does not cause any rounding. < 1419565798 338536 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: The particular values were bad examples. < 1419565803 870778 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't want rounding problems use fixed point hth < 1419565806 825962 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go with 0.1 + 0.1. < 1419565822 941004 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: still bad < 1419565846 970299 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the literals are converted as doubles, and the addition just increases the exponent by 1. < 1419565849 272643 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1419565864 151424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: floats are designed to have predictable rounding properties... < 1419565869 27183 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.1+0.05 *might* cause trouble < 1419565882 655261 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it's slightly hard to come up with pithy examples where you'd see the behavior. < 1419565885 903397 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0.1 + 0.05 + 0.05 < 1419565887 621659 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to a decimal system they're not < 1419565887 706125 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.2 < 1419565895 599431 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when it shows up relevantly you're going to be *really confused*. < 1419565898 899510 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 0.2 + 0.03 + 0.04 < 1419565900 262536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.27 < 1419565903 280690 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1419565917 605040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I'm not sure of the relevance...? < 1419565987 355210 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one example is storing $59.99 as a float. < 1419565991 376880 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's do it with decimal then. Let's say we have 9.46. Round it to two places and we get 9.5. Round *that* to one place and we get 10, but if we rounded 9.46 to one place we'd have 9. < 1419566024 681210 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that sort of thing happening anywhere you happen to use a variable in your code, and people's attitudes towards floating point become really easy to understand. < 1419566074 726745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: sure < 1419566076 819565 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sure. < 1419566091 620092 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Well yes. Floating point is not a good choice for monetary computation. < 1419566093 798130 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419566131 118714 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's important to understand the properties a type gives you and whether or not they're useful to you. < 1419566173 104563 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean to be fair float gets used for money a lot even in actual financial systems I think < 1419566194 146582 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419566368 782334 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: imo, this is because unlike fortran, C and related languages do not have a inbuilt way to output an integer with a point in a specified place < 1419566378 61736 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm. ok < 1419566401 745898 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the user inputs 3.45, and you get 345 < 1419566416 260845 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not all you need for meaningful support of fixed point... < 1419566424 122924 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no simple scanf for than < 1419566428 250026 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1419566430 379145 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 47/100 + 41/100 + 12/100 < 1419566431 762611 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.9999999999999999 < 1419566450 21324 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: eaxctly < 1419566458 505532 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, it'd be nice to support it. < 1419566476 840820 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed point is useful enough it's a real shame it's, well, hard to use. :) < 1419566486 573105 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 47/100 + 41/100 + 12/100 :: Rational < 1419566489 407515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 % 1 < 1419566513 186508 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't hard to use fixed point in Fortran or COBOL < 1419566567 578210 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is aware < 1419566579 712620 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should clarify, hard to use in currently popular languages. < 1419566591 730892 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj QUIT : < 1419566666 215452 :Solace|tablestuf!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz JOIN :#esoteric < 1419566683 549751 :Solace|tablestuf!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz NICK :Solace < 1419566719 356967 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it's do-able in GHC Haskell < 1419566739 547227 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Merry Christmas everyone < 1419566765 121897 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: Merii kurisumasu. < 1419566775 994193 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But haskell is even more unlike popular languages than Fortran is < 1419566811 401732 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1419566822 359241 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Merry Christmas" in Japanese. < 1419566827 263829 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, really) < 1419566830 126933 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said it in romaji Japanese < 1419566840 837808 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm too lazy to install an IME on here. < 1419566852 294675 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks about right < 1419566877 350613 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ime are good for learning Kanji < 1419566891 167248 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the kanji. :P < 1419566940 96013 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1419566947 514818 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks pikhq < 1419566991 1212 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a pokemon game finally < 1419567003 603437 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which? < 1419567004 468246 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, me too, but my 3DS is 90 miles away < 1419567019 213978 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Aaaaw. < 1419567031 762368 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1419567038 328669 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then < 1419567041 52902 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got Omega Ruby < 1419567049 826383 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got Pokemon X < 1419567058 748895 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I preferred ORAS to XY. < 1419567059 211456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::k Centi < 1419567060 195273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1419567064 232816 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to learn to pronounce Japanese < 1419567066 444022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 3.2 :: Centi < 1419567067 955718 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.20 < 1419567098 423693 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese is easy to pronounce < 1419567109 295288 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, XY was enjoyable, but my first Pokemon game was Emerald so I think ORAS will have a nostalgia factor < 1419567113 911345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> pi :: Micro < 1419567115 242127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating Data.Fixed.Micro) < 1419567115 285334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘GHC.Float.pi’ < 1419567117 537466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1419567118 795534 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :how fast is a centi-second inbetween the space of 2 feet (the object is a solid) < 1419567118 930071 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Oooh, yeah. < 1419567127 86110 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1419567128 657889 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Afraid ORAS didn't have that much nostalgia for me though. < 1419567134 780089 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :X is enjoyable < 1419567137 104899 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finished Emerald earlier this year. :) < 1419567137 354539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> realToFrac pi :: Micro < 1419567138 740951 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.141592 < 1419567150 476486 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comapritably to yellow < 1419567158 142058 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a 10 < 1419567161 120717 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have X < 1419567167 37092 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :last pokemon game i played < 1419567170 766142 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Japanese is hard to pronounce correctly. Easy to approximate < 1419567173 7654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> realToFrac pi * 100 :: Micro < 1419567174 386155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 314.159200 < 1419567179 269328 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be certain XY is fairly good. < 1419567180 766722 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says i have to update a package¿ < 1419567183 758065 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Precisely that. < 1419567189 716872 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought each letter mapped directly to one sound < 1419567199 166743 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairy pokemons are pretty eh < 1419567199 723680 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Yes. But the sounds are foreign to anglophones < 1419567203 642703 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak tbh < 1419567204 140464 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: Each kana does, sure. < 1419567211 770439 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yeah the long vowels and the long consonants are hard < 1419567221 83958 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's learning to form them, and then to not switch back to the English ones. < 1419567221 413728 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: Counter to dragon type. < 1419567232 541385 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really < 1419567247 630815 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elite 4 have dragon right? < 1419567251 874167 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Speaking with a thick accent is easy, speaking with little to no accent is Hard. < 1419567254 874383 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: Si. < 1419567261 727263 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dragon are still OP. < 1419567268 636788 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes. < 1419567268 702546 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate dragons < 1419567279 591229 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a pokemon sense < 1419567287 446637 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use dragon/steel team usually < 1419567300 581003 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fire/Water < 1419567305 674836 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very glad I learned French when I was younger. I picked up on a lot of phonetic differences which I didn't appreciate until later. < 1419567307 530300 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Balancing < 1419567309 824737 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In X I ended up with a Normal team < 1419567318 949052 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually surprised to notice that I form 'n' differently in English and French. < 1419567326 175045 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have much of a fixed team, kinda just randomly grabbing things as I feel like. < 1419567334 889352 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an ice fossil < 1419567337 821400 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and knowing more variety makes it easier to work on other sounds < 1419567342 242226 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean I didn't really have a team, I had an overpowered snorlax and 5 other pokemon < 1419567349 110752 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: :D < 1419567359 975554 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :X I used Blaziken. < 1419567364 93378 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just started < 1419567365 35145 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419567369 33345 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mega Blaziken is, uh, OP as heck. < 1419567375 256158 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i restarted recently < 1419567388 776645 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419567391 119033 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime probably soon I'm gonna be starting on White. < 1419567399 92522 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419567404 631391 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am out of pokemon < 1419567411 436004 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pikachu is apparently the only pokemon ive come across that says its species name < 1419567417 637073 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: Yep. < 1419567424 253997 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because anime. < 1419567425 301117 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the extra stuff just keeps getting in the way of actually enjoying the game, I eventually just gave up < 1419567430 462675 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you anime < 1419567439 710241 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, Pikachu's cry used to be very different < 1419567439 847029 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Like? < 1419567449 20724 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: promotional pokemon < 1419567453 159424 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1419567462 469753 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a diancee tho < 1419567466 408303 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever weird online game they make for $NEWGAME < 1419567475 389273 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :lvl 1 < 1419567486 279201 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419567490 138778 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, I just want to play the games and collect all the dudez < 1419567499 282644 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it too early to go on my N64... < 1419567500 975499 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gotta catch 'em all! But wait, you can only really catch 'em all if you live in Japan!" < 1419567501 327433 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why make it so goddamn hard :( < 1419567502 209655 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far I just have a lv 22 ivysaur and nothing else worth mentioning < 1419567511 129437 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catching 600 of each pokemon? < 1419567518 622947 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, nowadays, it's more like "but only if you're paying attention this week! trololol" < 1419567531 123679 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they keep adding more of them every generation < 1419567531 201405 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, catching EVERY SINGLE DIFFERENT SPINDA DESIGN < 1419567533 110909 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you don't care about the event-only legendaries it's a mere 4 games you need now. < 1419567534 21132 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like beating my friends teams < 1419567561 367950 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: X/Y, OR/AS, HG/SS, D/P? < 1419567566 130062 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :X/Y + OR/AS. < 1419567574 222431 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the shinies < 1419567575 889968 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, that misses gen 5 < 1419567588 139200 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they're all available in gen 6. < 1419567591 808091 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a shiny floette and its amazing tbh < 1419567602 969959 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :On X I have a shiny Mr Mime < 1419567605 514282 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is terrifying < 1419567606 735419 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also animation styles are good thats an added like < 1419567608 907658 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't play anything between sapphire and X < 1419567624 412021 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys the rock gym < 1419567627 603988 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Likewise, though emerald and X for me. < 1419567630 531764 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :its to much for me < 1419567634 840473 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :HG/SS were pretty fantastic < 1419567642 387688 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1419567644 334626 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was to be expected, they were remakes of the best games in the series < 1419567648 345241 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :catch a green monkey dude < 1419567653 989114 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought Pearl, HG, and White after finishing Y. < 1419567661 607949 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :HG was fantastic. < 1419567670 252738 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aazgxpqwykefhbsu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419567700 517561 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I've become addicted to riichi < 1419567754 910522 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORAS is fairly delightful though, I must say. < 1419567767 365795 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hey, it's the first time they made an event legendary *not* event-only. < 1419567790 149746 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wish they'd do that with the rest. < 1419567860 107364 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :death metal goes well with steel/ghost type < 1419567877 349537 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you split a string by a delimiter functionally? < 1419567918 238437 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :return a list < 1419567937 171722 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh really? which/how? < 1419567938 53828 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank < 1419567952 973081 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, in haskell? < 1419567955 479064 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Deoxys. Now it's just available in the post-game little storyline. < 1419567960 129327 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cool < 1419567961 725040 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1419567968 975385 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ride Rayquaza into space and encounter Deoxys! < 1419567972 112862 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's sweet, since Deoxys is one of the best event-only legendaries < 1419567981 764556 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1419567986 322942 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: when is this?! < 1419567992 44580 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use parsec < 1419567995 902535 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: Right after the Elite Four. < 1419568005 364746 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1419568014 99378 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :God its gettin really fancy < 1419568093 178490 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So long story short I have a Deoxys in a Premiere Ball. :) < 1419568103 559622 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1419568111 770951 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to go heal < 1419568200 459460 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nice :) < 1419568300 457208 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41547&oldid=41546 5* 03213.162.68.188 5* (+0) 10/* External resources */ using 9 bit cells now < 1419568338 324854 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :caught an axew < 1419568446 234301 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you played riichi? < 1419568666 296882 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419568682 237983 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is roasted42? < 1419568782 771181 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419569007 326432 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cute lil axew named killer, who will be my guillotine machine < 1419569151 568816 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: i don't remember em talking < 1419569164 841868 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont name my pokemons < 1419569168 246306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be from south africa < 1419569215 500043 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :i went to Spain once < 1419569222 12198 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :very hot < 1419569250 585303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :plausible < 1419569283 761742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1419569292 597512 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what < 1419569297 606287 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 260420Z 30013KT 9999 VCSH SCT028 BKN045 M00/M05 Q1015 RMK WIND 670FT 31019KT < 1419569307 923380 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cold, but not that cold < 1419569326 597586 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hot for me < 1419569335 635665 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: also do you know where I can get good anime with romaji subtitles? < 1419569340 616591 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was referring to the metar forecast < 1419569348 82126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er not forecast < 1419569352 80275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :report < 1419569357 493899 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasnt refering to that < 1419569361 762057 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1419569366 503009 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is that < 1419569370 951993 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not much market for that < 1419569382 443637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: airport style weather reporting < 1419569386 270017 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I know < 1419569388 986366 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1419569398 953879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the M00/ means it's just below freezing < 1419569402 986607 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419569412 146465 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1419569431 606181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not in spain, it's in norway where i am < 1419569447 451333 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway! < 1419569456 646734 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay ive lived there before < 1419569465 599392 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: try watching japanese childrens shows < 1419569473 709684 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 year there is nice < 1419569481 821669 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like doraemon or kogepan < 1419569503 927467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LEMG < 1419569504 538508 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LEMG 260430Z 30008KT CAVOK 06/05 Q1030 NOSIG < 1419569509 72792 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1419569532 727497 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's málaga in spain. only 6 degrees celsius < 1419569542 208395 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar YYZ < 1419569563 69636 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :you remind me of my father somehow oerjan < 1419569564 457774 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm it's not airport codes? < 1419569571 610163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1419569581 970035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: four-letter ones < 1419569587 433883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two systems < 1419569591 82303 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :lel < 1419569612 118754 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be creepy < 1419569617 96572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ICAO < 1419569619 13580 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYYZ < 1419569619 513668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYYZ 260400Z 25011G18KT 15SM OVC030 03/M02 A3009 RMK SC8 SLP195 < 1419569656 674266 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I have not played riichi, and I dunno about romaji subtitled anime. < 1419569669 700568 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren's suggestions make sense though. < 1419569701 426330 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned much of my reading from doraemon manga < 1419569737 408008 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not looking for reading right now, though < 1419569777 633677 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids with there anime and mangos < 1419569792 574112 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :animu and mango < 1419569810 932349 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I suggest not playing riichi. it's addictive < 1419569924 736824 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway coppro try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgEQiXBGHDg < 1419569964 921511 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :team flare is very fashionable < 1419569984 597147 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :flare = flair < 1419570023 958424 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :says team flare < 1419570040 462143 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is now tommorow wherever this webclient is being hosted < 1419570105 729891 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419570199 929172 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419570664 667669 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's not romaji < 1419570666 111494 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1419570756 50112 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think what you are looking for exists... better to just focus on hiragana, romaji don't accurately represent the sounds anyway < 1419570778 26823 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cod < 1419570803 88379 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419570875 134004 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: it represents them accurately enough to help me learn to listen < 1419571049 574952 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, romaji transscripts might exist for drama CDs. < 1419571071 398645 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there exists a site which will transliterate sub files < 1419571149 633831 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1419573092 156588 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419573203 255408 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419574283 532795 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aazgxpqwykefhbsu QUIT :Quit: , < 1419575274 993248 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Quit: brb! < 1419575492 310704 :dianne!~diannes@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1419576469 254542 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419576512 840894 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419577054 752267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any Lisp-like system that does something like the (~X ~Y (CONSTANT X 42)) stuff I have suggested? (This example is useless of course (for two reasons); I simply demonstrate an example code.) < 1419577212 631142 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I can have one more idea too where for example (~W ~~X ~Y ~~Z whatever) is a shortcut for (~W ~X ~Y ~Z (NEWNAMES (X Z) whatever)). < 1419577430 869320 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419577750 921604 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1419577751 26244 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419577942 70975 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419577952 711395 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419578906 289816 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419579047 442221 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419580692 581697 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419580809 650003 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xzaxurizigwipfkz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419581291 168164 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1419581316 542665 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: system upgrade < 1419582015 121237 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419582165 242810 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really foggy here... < 1419582211 606388 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's england, what do you expect hth < 1419582273 571591 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rain < 1419582279 695526 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slet < 1419582284 34610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the other option < 1419582287 553395 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: racket has 'define-values', which can match multiple assignments to values. < 1419582288 583831 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is like sleet but doesn't last as long) < 1419582292 240462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1419582300 385963 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and totally not a typo) < 1419582304 854300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1419582336 866860 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: I do not understand, nor understand what it has to do with the things like I have mentioned. < 1419582353 420611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :trondheim uncharacteristically has snow < 1419582379 568146 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/define.html#%28form._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._define-values%29%29 < 1419582380 48402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, "uncharacteristically" is a pretty long word for being english < 1419582415 1218 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it's uncharacteristically long < 1419582481 473435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: values is actually in normal scheme too < 1419582628 236723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do (let ((x '())) (define x 42)) in scheme will the x with 42 be visible outside? < 1419582638 20998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, that seems like a way to implement it < 1419582651 322300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(via a macro) < 1419582905 928124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess the problem is if you also have (define y 43) in there and you want _that_ to be visible < 1419582920 742136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not sure what actual scheme does < 1419583499 492123 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonna try to enter IOCCC in 2015 < 1419583537 688118 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :follow your dreams, man! < 1419583635 91386 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1419583872 249292 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone in here enter in 2013 or 14? < 1419583903 910770 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1419583906 173105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I forget exactly who < 1419583913 770240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an idea for a program? < 1419583918 882587 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes < 1419583931 453523 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you willing to divulge it? :p < 1419583947 207575 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1419583952 826693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't listen to elliott he'll steal your idea! < 1419583954 832988 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1419583957 100949 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I won't < 1419583959 749732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never do anything < 1419583964 53181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what he would say < 1419584178 868679 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: scheme/racket is lexically scoped. vars inside of let aren't visible to the outside. It does have closures though, so there's ways around that. < 1419584202 344468 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I wanted an explicitly constant value though, there's define-syntax-values. < 1419584228 899604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: this is in the context of zzo38's question, mind you < 1419584238 313694 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can do (define-syntax-values (x y z) (43 2 0)) and they'd be macros, not vars, and thus immutable. < 1419584255 716075 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question isn't how to define (constant ...) < 1419584299 473988 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough. without more detail I'm not sure I really followed what he was after then. < 1419584335 857539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how to construct something like his (~x ...) which prevents definitions of x inside ... from escaping but iiuc _not_ definitions of other identifiers < 1419584345 599036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my understanding < 1419584464 42107 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1419584464 421622 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme@(guile-user)> (let ((x 1)) (define y 2)) < 1419584464 565833 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :While compiling expression: < 1419584464 609503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: Syntax error: < 1419584464 609660 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknown file:1:0: no expressions in body in form (let ((x 1)) (define y 2)) < 1419584468 962572 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1419584480 662320 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord. < 1419584481 722012 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken accepts it but then y is unbound. < 1419584493 136176 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme@(guile-user)> (let ((x 1)) (define y 2) 123) < 1419584493 179467 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 = 123 < 1419584493 179619 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme@(guile-user)> y < 1419584493 179696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; : warning: possibly unbound variable `y' < 1419584531 493477 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp entered in 2012 and Gregor in 2011... < 1419584615 879666 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 2012 is basically 2013. < 1419584676 499236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't recognize the names of any of the winners from people here < 1419584680 7821 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, but Scheme and Racket are lexically scoped such that that's already what happens. I can do (begin (define x 42) (let ((x 13)) x) x), and I'll get 13 then 42. < 1419584721 606402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: um the point is to have the define visible _outside_ the begin < 1419584880 476353 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ahh. OK. Well, I don't think that's possible in Scheme, but in CL you could do it I think. < 1419584895 231312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1419584905 358125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well zzo38 was asking if any lisp had it < 1419584940 755608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lisp-like < 1419584943 403651 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CL has syntax for both lexical and dynamically scoped variables. < 1419584954 746434 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of course it does. < 1419584958 851905 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1419584964 783466 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7787683/common-lisp-scoping-dynamic-vs-lexical < 1419584978 651219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not at all sure that this answers the question. < 1419585074 612969 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK, to put another way: depending on which assignment command you used, yes, you can define a variable in CL in a local context that would still be available outside of it. < 1419585214 664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't interpret the question as asking for dynamic scoping, anyway < 1419585970 135745 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419586496 319268 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Etc. < 1419586781 352952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, about "it's how to construct something like his (~x ...) which prevents definitions of x inside ..." it isn't only quite that but also that anything inside that refers to this "x" no longer knows anything about any other "x", as if any "x" inside this block is a different token than the "x" outside of the block; a token which is guaranteed not to occur outside. < 1419586936 92262 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, but that's where I'm confused: that's just how lexical scoping works. < 1419588716 298286 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419589250 381474 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419589329 935604 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419589346 191278 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any reason why a lexical scope can't simply be an object, whose members are the lexical variables and with one anonymous method, that is, the enclosed code? < 1419589445 72412 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would allow the scope to be assigned to a variable and its variables would thus be available after the scope is over. < 1419589567 142924 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I think Racket can actually do that. Probably. The depths of Racket's macro system are an abyss in which all sanity is lost. < 1419589711 590490 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :insanity is a necessary hazard to our work < 1419589747 32371 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.51 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1419589841 15775 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419590127 937326 :supay!sid47179@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnvucmvnxgbrsmyc NICK :supay_afk < 1419591017 77018 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419591572 431643 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419591971 215027 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419592430 438539 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419592970 704109 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 QUIT :Changing host < 1419592970 786700 :roasted42!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419592970 829944 :roasted42!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 NICK :TheM4ch1n3 < 1419593272 629020 :TheM4ch1n3!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419593360 137309 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419595465 136811 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419595571 718570 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419596264 659257 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419596539 596984 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419596777 704478 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419597123 240731 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419597157 52065 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419597508 697350 :asklepion!~lukophron@103.1.30.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419597537 983520 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419597598 372502 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419597808 286004 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419597808 641779 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 QUIT :Changing host < 1419597808 688480 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1419597915 149041 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker NICK :XorzSopasmas < 1419597930 636497 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419598094 351669 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419598457 988473 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419598766 605268 :roasted43!~appleseed@41.50.16.44 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419598773 834064 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419598859 36622 :PinealGlandOptic!~PinealGla@82.144.205.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419599389 654491 :roasted43!~appleseed@41.50.16.44 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419599404 185663 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust486.18-2.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419599413 138428 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust486.18-2.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1419599413 182158 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419599577 226003 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419599635 281754 :XorzSopasmas!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419599668 833036 :supay_afk!sid47179@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnvucmvnxgbrsmyc NICK :supay < 1419599855 301503 :XorzSopasmas!~Mark@87.228.105.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419600504 226801 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.50 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419600581 50963 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419602597 243311 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.50 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419607324 676826 :XorzSopasmas!~Mark@87.228.105.48 NICK :SopaXorzTaker < 1419607341 896916 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419607360 898502 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419607360 980504 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@87.228.105.48 QUIT :Changing host < 1419607360 980603 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1419608766 682846 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1419609695 524610 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ngiqoriybgttqvmk JOIN :#esoteric < 1419610351 854906 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419612663 218357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419612785 374562 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :sortiecat < 1419612793 996800 :sortiecat!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1419612824 831160 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419613548 943623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419613562 774109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419614440 10644 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :How devious; implementing eode efficiently requires nondeterminism < 1419614809 587890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1419614822 95914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419615947 252933 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419616123 131637 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419617218 595196 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA732.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419617253 572020 :asklepion!~lukophron@103.1.30.170 PART :#esoteric < 1419618235 228531 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1419619203 316754 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-167.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :saim3bzd < 1419620075 100793 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419620696 946869 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419620718 712919 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419620864 674097 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419621110 245821 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419622811 223677 :arjanb!8259ab67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.171.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419624397 127392 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419624796 440617 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA732.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1419625149 760386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419625153 359012 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419625168 582799 :callforjudgement!~ais523@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Changing host < 1419625168 626033 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419625301 83106 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419625320 91319 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419625370 465007 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419625382 313217 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419626347 290104 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419626351 981420 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419627268 371000 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419627287 254523 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419627745 189983 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419628706 101336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419628711 429073 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419629073 106147 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419631738 670545 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419631897 112706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419632426 65096 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419633130 999420 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419635112 638287 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419635675 575202 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419636278 179333 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419637354 11309 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh another reminder of how much of GG's greatness is due to Cheyenne Wright. This wreckage will be so much nicer in color. < 1419637381 311823 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GG? < 1419637391 15848 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Girl Genius < 1419637563 16730 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419637570 128160 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419637571 540284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1419637971 133839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, but that's where I'm confused: that's just how lexical scoping works. <-- the problem with lexical scoping is that it would also hide definitions of _other_ tokens than x from the outside. < 1419637991 982991 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell J_Arcane Well, but that's where I'm confused: that's just how lexical scoping works. <-- the problem with lexical scoping is that it would also hide definitions of _other_ tokens than x from the outside. < 1419637992 62681 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1419638063 470015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell J_Arcane iiuc zzo38 wants (~x (define y 3)) to have the same meaning as (define y 3). < 1419638063 513237 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1419638086 864743 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: am i correct? < 1419638089 405272 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1419638170 285676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i am wondering if you could use the hygiene system of scheme to implement this as a macro (~ x ...) < 1419638197 783439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't understand it well enough to say < 1419638204 289082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but I don't know if something that reads the list without executing it then might see the "x"? < 1419638233 663152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you want it to be on the reader level? < 1419638276 984431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could have a way to define the level too, but either way it cannot see it. < 1419638280 825300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, what would (~x 'x) return? < 1419638301 373975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :some gensymmed token, or an x token < 1419638346 454426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A token with the name "x" but which is still considered distinct from any other token with the name "x", I suppose. < 1419638351 244087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen a gensym that allows you to create a new symbol like that < 1419638369 53010 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember if it was standard