< 1419465609 369539 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fyfdnyxeiyhvmzgg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419465712 461231 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, yes, but you ruined the plot! Okay, that was expected, but yet, after discovering my poor hashing abilities, I decided to use the thermo-nuclear option: MD5, the cryptographic hashing function, which has been studied during long years, and which is considered an excellent solution for hashing anything." < 1419465717 763274 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was written in 2013 < 1419465722 534222 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.httrack.com/blog/2013/07/19/md5-is-your-friend/ enjoy < 1419465773 34051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it would be, like, "MD5 is actually fine even though it's weak", but actually it's "use MD5 for hash tables, it's INCREDIBLY CRYPTO STRONG and not that slow" < 1419466017 719806 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419466147 71544 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419466192 982886 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419466282 473911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly an NSA mole < 1419466685 355052 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been studied, that's for sure < 1419466857 833966 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419466974 277471 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we could even say that unlike some other hash functions we know whether it's secure or not... < 1419466977 71849 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419466988 63207 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's good, isn't it? < 1419467066 589204 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehe < 1419467236 278153 :MDream!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419467471 292822 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pnxgbwsqjscrnvxv QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419467601 144360 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419467692 326243 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419467721 78188 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419468097 85257 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419468717 71035 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419468782 651630 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419468937 89038 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419469535 129243 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419471062 858280 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419471119 971997 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419471235 230277 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419471377 395918 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419472166 616915 :MDream!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net NICK :MDude < 1419472225 339342 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419474401 459761 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any rules about starting IOCCC entries long before the competition is opened? < 1419474520 822842 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of. < 1419474614 877160 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm gonna get started < 1419474630 477346 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines someone somewhere opening an old secret letter to find lady ada lovelace's IOCCC entry
< 1419474639 825085 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh < 1419474676 734852 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre NICK :nisscrooge < 1419474682 931564 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419474735 157802 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wow, really? But... I mean, there's no reason to use MD5 instead of a proper hash function for hash tables. < 1419474763 56498 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sha512 hash table!!!! < 1419474790 179609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you should only use NP-complete hashes < 1419474806 279131 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419474806 437010 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really. The desirable properties for a hash table hash are fast while providing a reasonable distribution of values. < 1419474821 406030 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely different from what you want from a crypto hash function. < 1419474866 540302 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, reversing the hash and producing collisions should be God Damned Hard; speed is just kinda nice for some uses.) < 1419475229 557648 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: good thing he didn't pick a crypto hash function but a broken one, then :p < 1419475235 553427 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crypto-strength < 1419475633 595981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now, pizza < 1419475752 20079 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe let it cool a _little_. < 1419475813 279878 :MDude!~fyrc@c-71-58-118-227.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419476489 482960 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgcgpkuuohfvrljr JOIN :#esoteric < 1419476880 735474 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he just wanted fast, well, CRC32's pretty speedy. < 1419476990 514792 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the point is like... < 1419477055 213998 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MD5 is a bit slower, but I got all these collisions with FNV-1, and MD5 isn't that slow and it's The Best so let's just use it! (I also included MurmurHash in this post without commenting on it for some reason, possibly because it is obviously better than MD5 for a hash table even if MD5 was as incredibly strong as I think it is.)" < 1419477060 185415 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1419477062 667325 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a weird post. < 1419477074 645670 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1419477087 603201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he does mention MurmurHash < 1419477089 900693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :he trusts it less than MD5 < 1419477091 62406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1419477180 645688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. the post wouldn't be totally weird (though I'd still disagree with the idea that you should just use the strongest hash function you can find for your hash table) if you did s/MD5/SHA1/g or something. < 1419477191 579035 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :siphash is more secure than murmurhash < 1419477202 312874 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and similarly efficient < 1419477214 773441 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i use it in my proof-of-work scheme < 1419477229 437633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp: right, that kind of thing would be a more reasonable post than "MD5 is the best hash function for hash tables because it is crypto strong and the best for everything (p.s. it is 2013)" :p < 1419477266 799269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody ever told djb about the speed-security tradeoff < 1419477307 584603 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :siphash-4-8 is more secure and slower than siphash-2-4 < 1419477337 795664 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just joking based on how djb crypto functions are usually fast *and* secure < 1419477460 280364 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419477572 44070 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419477771 595711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Amazingly, the bct interpreter for eodermdrome seems to work <-- after this, my next challenge must be writing one in Feather < 1419477802 374631 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, djb. < 1419477813 123642 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's weird. His crypto's great, his software is... eccentric. < 1419477837 379 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no interpreter, no spec and inventor running away at the mere mention of it, it should be suitable. < 1419477903 187606 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still wishes someone would go drill into his teeth
< 1419477984 459697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :his software is like his crypto imo < 1419478006 414687 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb is more palatable in small doses which is why the latter is more successful :p < 1419478011 908851 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1419479901 250137 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc JOIN :#esoteric < 1419480028 315273 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419480084 335627 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419480619 340024 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1419480693 643738 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :did someone say "strong" and "md5"? < 1419481051 404530 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1419481441 45259 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 NICK :grumblesnoutHern < 1419481460 640395 :grumblesnoutHern!~redacted@192.73.232.206 NICK :digitalcold < 1419481465 847130 :digitalcold!~redacted@192.73.232.206 NICK :digitalcool < 1419482032 471649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: md5 is strong but slow, as everyone knows < 1419482339 642777 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to ping users from another irc network? < 1419482341 895728 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419482472 284110 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419482538 38079 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419483077 291531 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1419483399 772166 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419483562 94201 :arjanb!8259ab67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.89.171.103 QUIT :Quit: zzz < 1419484108 229032 :^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:680:104c:2150:561b:3175:c4c0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419485010 94962 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419485109 85573 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419485410 62364 :^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:680:104c:2150:561b:3175:c4c0 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1419486100 486632 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419486292 748646 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419486600 877040 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: strong in preventing unintentional hash collision, weak in everything else. < 1419486662 47614 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is yet no practical preimage attack to MD5, but inexpensive collision generation is enough for ruining security applications with MD5 < 1419487099 312998 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419487143 304572 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419487823 61211 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419487852 188515 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419487998 612112 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419488060 424344 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you find SHA1 collisions, don't save them in separate files < 1419488132 654218 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com NICK :nisstyre < 1419488142 858274 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1419488142 901596 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1419488148 663464 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre NICK :nisscrooge < 1419488153 91355 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419488159 118906 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: or zip/tar/whatever them. < 1419488196 816204 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419488536 73173 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.49 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419488558 530933 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone's died due to the existence of spam. Some important message getting caught in a spam filter or something < 1419488559 181696 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1419488696 907208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: nah they were all killed in bizarre traffic accidents before it could happen hth < 1419488732 381488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of which was caused by spam. the canned meat version. hth..hth < 1419488736 641554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1419488743 999650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid script < 1419488751 641120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hth. < 1419488855 303746 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacker news is in christmas colours and somehow I hate hacker news more than ever < 1419488938 144428 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419488970 856547 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assaults atslash with an atlatl at last
< 1419489071 777456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, merry christmas! < 1419489111 255007 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1419489116 2881 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1419489118 291224 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you too) < 1419489168 963302 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is atslash like slashdot < 1419489199 913084 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1419489215 729847 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atslash like atslash < 1419489217 379248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can celebrate gravmas instead hth < 1419489254 508516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very attractive holiday < 1419489255 670007 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks but I am actually endeavouring to be as little like stallman as possible in my life < 1419489275 56767 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :One way to celebrate Grav-Mass is to decorate a tree with apples and other fruits. Glue them or attach them, but not too well! The idea is that occasionally a fruit should fall. Put them on the tree no more than 2 feet up, so that they won't get damaged or hurt anybody when they fall. < 1419489280 37811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun Grav-Mass Ideas < 1419489302 165304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait did he invent that < 1419489305 347497 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the fuck stands under a tree waiting to get killed by a falling apple < 1419489313 963803 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've literally never heard of it except in the context of rms < 1419489314 179191 :atslash!~atslash@broadband-46-188-0-82.2com.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419489322 368181 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1419489353 407560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually was just trying to point out it was isaac newton's birthday, and then remembered it had a cutesy name < 1419489383 5558 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok who else was born today < 1419489416 962717 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :This dude from a religious story. Actually, his birthday was probably made up at some point < 1419489424 219777 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw it seems rather distasteful for stallman to co-opt newton's birthday to promote it over christmas, seeing as newton was a christian himself) < 1419489463 88098 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think < 1419489476 638662 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(...but then stallman is not known for good taste :p) < 1419489497 943644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder when newton actually celebrated his birthday, he was born in january old style < 1419489511 846937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if people celebrated birthdays back then) < 1419489528 21372 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Born 25 December 1642 < 1419489528 134813 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[NS: 4 January 1643][1] < 1419489531 931747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opposite, it seems < 1419489535 157176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1419489565 16571 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how old the practice of birthday celebration is but I'm pretty sure it must be well over 400 years < 1419489565 123453 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Co-opt stallman's birthday after he dies < 1419489584 771855 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crimean secession day < 1419489589 744286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: toe-mass < 1419489596 717647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have a calendar -- which is a pretty natural thing to create -- it's one of the most obvious occasions to celebrate, especially considering how sacred birth is often considered < 1419489638 468225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, I guess you could argue occasions not specific to one person would develop first) < 1419489639 283615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true but people sometimes considered other dates more important < 1419489663 539693 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or may have pietistic ideas about avoiding personal things < 1419489788 591412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1419489794 101191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I agree it's not as obvious as I stated. < 1419489798 903771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead I will ask wikipedia. < 1419489845 525668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right that pakistani guy was born today < 1419489854 764276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In some historically Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox countries such as Italy, Spain, France, parts of Germany, Poland, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece, Lithuania, Latvia, and throughout Latin America, it is common to have a 'name day'/'Saint's day'. It is celebrated in much the same way as a birthday, but it is held on the official day of a ... < 1419489861 115278 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... saint with the same Christian name as the birthday person" < 1419489868 380275 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the people not named after saints thought about that < 1419489884 268939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand sweden also does the name day thing < 1419489902 542357 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the queen of england has an official birthday that isn't her actual birthday < 1419489920 76327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think at times it were not allowed _not_ to name your child after a child. < 1419489924 707271 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*saint < 1419489931 213523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*giraffe < 1419489950 656820 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Queen celebrates two birthdays each year: her actual birthday on 21 April and her official birthday on a Saturday in June. < 1419489959 768075 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't I get two birthdays < 1419489972 25028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i think the dutch do that too... < 1419489984 33110 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you afford two birthdays < 1419489995 657394 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gooood morning < 1419490004 105392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiiiiineb < 1419490010 22198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: the idea is that *other* people buy me things hth < 1419490086 28461 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only naming people after saints is a great way to overlap saints on the same name and limit the growth of the name list < 1419490089 148550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you can celebrate humphrey bogart today, by making everything dark and gloomy hth < 1419490104 578886 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Thursday, everyone < 1419490109 614896 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to end up with saints Patrick day eventually < 1419490116 794567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like surgeons general? < 1419490116 946699 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy thursday! < 1419490173 76846 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :glguy: you mean two with the same name on the same day? < 1419490240 725362 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, rather than saint Patrick day Mk ii later in the year... That would be ridiculous :) < 1419490257 554358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also take a shot at celebrating anwar sadat < 1419490260 879972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_25#Births what's interesting is that nobody was born on christmas between 1250 and 1461, I think probably because of a conspiracy to cover them up < 1419490291 11694 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, assuming the number of saints tends to infinity with time, and there are a finite number of names, eventually there would be 367 saints with the same name < 1419490294 466432 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or presumably it was just more convenient for them to use a different birthday < 1419490322 731981 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people born on christmas should get to designate an "official" birthday to stop that merging holiday nonsense < 1419490330 872849 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a the value of the probability that no one was born on a single day < 1419490339 672356 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximately 1/big < 1419490364 342151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm < 1419490413 481642 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how it compares to other improbables < 1419490479 620777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have a hunch there were very few people born in those years who had birthdays at all hth < 1419490531 369528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, it was a conspiracy < 1419490535 268473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1419490554 641679 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that would actually be a not impossible thing to enforce, if you wanted nobody to be born on a certain day < 1419490582 668925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ensure there's a really huge taboo around having sex around nine months before it :P < 1419490590 62519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :designate some holy period, say < 1419490592 977537 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to preform three miracles to become a saint < 1419490606 400432 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well who will elect me president so I can ensure nobody is ever born on christmas ever again < 1419490608 289392 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enforce no sex? What < 1419490623 125741 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if i used necromancy and devil magic to preform these miracles? and the church had no proof i did < 1419490630 334286 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: look, it's VERY PRACTICAL AND FEASIBLE < 1419490631 954151 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably simpler to rewrite all existing historical records < 1419490634 628908 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :would i become a saint through false hood < 1419490646 730272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually seeing how the list grows in the 20th century i change my suspicion: there were just very few people born at all hth < 1419490662 936586 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, actually it was just that the illuminati lost their grip on power < 1419490690 32801 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they even exist? < 1419490711 919371 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: nowadays the miracles tend to happen after the saint is dead afaiu < 1419490732 286804 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1419490744 247381 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how can they be elected to saint hood? < 1419490757 253668 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this improvement clearly prevents them from cheating hth < 1419490766 923591 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1419490780 983045 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :but necromancy bypasses that oerjan < 1419490784 379808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: surprisingly people aren't usually elected to saint hood < 1419490802 508588 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ofc < 1419490814 123810 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i think its only been a few < 1419490819 995539 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones with Jesus < 1419490823 961395 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then some < 1419490884 108910 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the popes keep declaring a bunch < 1419490909 461189 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you get the powers after you are beatified < 1419490961 302976 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :The popes cant really elect technically < 1419490980 142151 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be preformed and elected by the whole of the church < 1419490998 558101 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if a pope declares its not really official < 1419490998 810662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many people born today < 1419491037 32541 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also [saint] john Paul [saint] being they did some good shit < 1419491043 6457 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know who wasn't born today? < 1419491047 274835 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :not saint as in < 1419491055 599343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you hth < 1419491056 997300 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people, I think < 1419491065 229549 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my god he just rose the dead < 1419491069 622808 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :praise him < 1419491118 672585 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tommorow is the day Santa first achieved reindeer propelled flight!! < 1419491129 670646 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1419491130 287829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@time Solace < 1419491130 706296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for Solace is Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:05:30 GMT < 1419491134 235046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually today < 1419491140 136926 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1419491149 939566 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1419491166 797238 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its still 24 here < 1419491171 658750 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah he just stole the invention from the sami hth < 1419491220 447936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: you probably haven't set a local time zone for your computer, or something < 1419491235 858780 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if god was just and he probably is a higher dimensional being that just nudged the big bang and left everything alone < 1419491247 138220 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Solace could be using a UK bouncer < 1419491248 562772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait it's webclient < 1419491263 770184 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably using its time zone. < 1419491270 231969 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :runs off of sattelite data btw < 1419491302 860179 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt time slower or faster in space because of gravity < 1419491317 355380 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oglaf.com/chirpnmutter < 1419491320 363194 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :like one centi-second apart from earth < 1419491350 434686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: yes < 1419491359 522649 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :omfg that comic < 1419491379 5985 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :i enjoy your presence jafet < 1419491407 161976 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking on an oglaf comic? oh well it's not like i have W to be NSF < 1419491447 783175 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dont lie oerjan you are probably dirty < 1419491451 88965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not NSFW just disturbing to some < 1419491467 25989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: i confess! < 1419491473 692541 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha < 1419491475 38649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but only to that i am dirty) < 1419491476 842480 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:07:15 What if god was just and he probably is a higher dimensional being that just nudged the big bang and left everything alone < 1419491480 810698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: deism < 1419491485 310060 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat? < 1419491490 617671 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it < 1419491510 689616 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much exactly what you said https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism < 1419491518 223445 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :So oerjan is a dirty coder < 1419491527 357304 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt even know :0 < 1419491527 683161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :every philosophical position on god has already been invented and given a name, except for those that _actually_ make him wipe out the inventor hth < 1419491530 730780 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature. For Deists, human beings can only know God via reason and the observation of nature, but not by revelation or supernatural manifestations (such as miracles) – phenomena which Deists regard with caution if not skepticism. See the section Features of ... < 1419491536 622378 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... deism, following. Deism is related to naturalism because it credits the formation of life and the universe to a higher power, using only natural processes. Deism may also include a spiritual element, involving experiences of God and nature.[14] < 1419491541 364293 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan isn't much of a coder < 1419491555 887951 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1419491556 217803 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: v @ ? . < 1419491556 417990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1419491567 383079 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi Mr lambdabot < 1419491585 569010 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any of the bots have Christmas stuff < 1419491626 292443 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :^celebrate < 1419491626 394788 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ < 1419491626 498711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't do it often :p < 1419491626 657722 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 | c.c.c |  ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´69   | c.c.c |   `\o/´69  ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | < 1419491626 720322 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 >\ c.c /'\  |\|   |     >\ c.c  >\    |    /^\|/´\ c.c /´\ < 1419491627 462899 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                  /`\              (_|¯`\ < 1419491627 620676 :myndzi!myndzi@kingofstackers.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :69                (_| |_)                 |_) < 1419491634 293519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, pun not intended, but ok, sure < 1419491641 115049 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*okay, < 1419491677 133393 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :But has oerjan done stuff on the wiki < 1419491701 214922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MWAHAHAHA* < 1419491720 203326 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he doesnt have to do stuff to be a coDer but in context the er at the end of code means you have to be cod"ing" < 1419491725 29279 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its confuse < 1419491765 288830 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me oerjan i was testing out evil laughs and i think.nyahahaha is the best < 1419491787 707834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah too high pitch hth < 1419491815 247982 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer mwuahahaha to mwahahaha < 1419491826 707505 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :noot noot noot < 1419491832 380094 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419491860 952893 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nyahahaha" is the evil laugh of a cat. < 1419491871 872887 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am cat < 1419491878 776029 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does evil look so good? http://images7.alphacoders.com/381/381214.jpg < 1419491880 822848 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didnt you know elliott < 1419491900 219650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: i wrote a lot of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload < 1419491917 352442 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amaze < 1419491940 784117 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: that explains it < 1419491959 804678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#itflabtijtslwi and https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Unlambda are mine < 1419491966 517715 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes a stack language < 1419491977 62897 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking of that tbh < 1419492024 794771 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christ on a cracker! < 1419492028 153210 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats alot < 1419492039 290945 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deadfish#unlambda < 1419492056 225857 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :deadfish is the great unifier of our community < 1419492082 173595 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, isn't https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish#Fueue also you < 1419492085 858315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :more unlambda i made hear http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/interpreter.unl < 1419492098 885351 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um i don't think so, actually < 1419492101 865673 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it? < 1419492124 974508 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was either you are Arc_Koen < 1419492127 899482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1419492128 527732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*here < 1419492134 40781 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever dc and falcon look cool < 1419492152 599295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i did < 1419492158 461461 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd forgotten about that < 1419492160 966449 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you guys the kewl cids < 1419492182 518533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1419492214 79830 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that link is filled with broken fonts and stuff < 1419492218 937655 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant read it < 1419492269 671687 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: it's latin-1, or should be < 1419492283 92676 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets see < 1419492290 719274 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its in raavi for me < 1419492295 931740 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1419492302 564919 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe its my browser? < 1419492313 844667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: the problem is that it contains a character table of all 256 bytes < 1419492323 303679 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have font styles locked < 1419492325 207508 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1419492327 51818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may confuse a lot of browsers < 1419492341 407937 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill switch to Palemoon for a second < 1419492376 910544 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it supposed to be all cramped like that? < 1419492383 47755 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does in read down < 1419492424 278529 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1419492445 435036 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why does evil look so good? http://images7.alphacoders.com/381/381214.jpg <-- pyongyang? < 1419492468 764449 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Juche Tower in Pyongyang < 1419492487 70395 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah i see < 1419492496 543018 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it looks pretty < 1419492508 753068 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesnt understand any of that < 1419492614 691707 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any Esolang that is just Tables? < 1419492621 298406 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im good at tables < 1419492625 208370 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The buildings near it also look good, but weird. Like, boxy art in some game < 1419492635 363744 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, tables in what sense? < 1419492651 563560 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data < 1419492663 137732 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1419492665 21900 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL? < 1419492669 104377 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Code that resembles Table structures < 1419492687 306671 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats an esolang?! < 1419492712 731585 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arent esolangs supposed to be hard Taneb? < 1419492727 836065 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, try using SQL for general programming < 1419492733 144799 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419492741 106132 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :/already does < 1419492768 371704 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419492771 108029 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means _only_ SQL < 1419492775 922595 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1419492783 637882 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit woman! < 1419492797 329916 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cant do that ive used SQL for two years < 1419492807 483249 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im tired of dat < 1419492815 707215 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 can, i think. < 1419492827 9106 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I am 72% convinced zzo38 is magic < 1419492828 63615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least he seems to be trying. < 1419492840 780225 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is the woman here < 1419492847 979923 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb what makes you say that < 1419492864 356529 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is elliott < 1419492882 147168 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i find unlikely < 1419492883 935464 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :go give your grandma a hug < 1419492885 862779 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :jk < 1419492895 805505 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yorick is in here < 1419492899 993469 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I am not sure but I think either me or oerjan < 1419492900 463748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :both my grandmas are dead, would be awkward < 1419492919 910300 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hes on esper or is that another but same name idk < 1419492926 279251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Solace was referring to Solace < 1419492936 334136 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :im male ;-; < 1419492945 586792 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its just a saying y'know < 1419492948 308205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, poor yorick doesn't say much here < 1419492970 897203 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :The yorick on esper is very talkitive < 1419493000 223948 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe yorick is distracted by esper < 1419493007 457891 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i found this great book like 4 years ago < 1419493021 249909 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :And i lost the name of it before i finished it < 1419493033 532778 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or minecraft Taneb < 1419493081 503596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :minecraft is so 2-3 years ago < 1419493084 713364 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats what the yorick there does < 1419493085 810325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this channel < 1419493087 792720 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :mods it < 1419493106 208398 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows alot for brainfuck and haskell tho so i wonder < 1419493110 169108 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 2-4 even actually I think < 1419493141 734076 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanilla mincrift < 1419493147 923246 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :its all about those mods < 1419493170 306107 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theres some cool ones to bad i dont waste money on things i dont really have time for < 1419493183 717824 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: btw i also made this https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fueue#Brainfuck_interpreter < 1419493200 900979 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had a modded server, back in the day. < 1419493215 602163 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when health didn't work in multiplayer and you could duplicate items < 1419493220 905916 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the good old days < 1419493246 542578 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :mods like AE and oc are pretty cool and complex < 1419493285 787153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck and haskell does sound like he should be here < 1419493287 583819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also back when minecart boosters were a thing, and redstone was kind of broken, and... < 1419493299 477461 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1419493310 83296 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419493310 942975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so basically they fixed everything and now it sucks? < 1419493318 629844 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pretty much exactly that, yes < 1419493330 79869 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bugs were like half of what made it fun < 1419493337 622684 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still make cool things with redstone < 1419493343 440240 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they tried to make it into an RPG for no reason because they don't understand the appeal of their own game < 1419493349 99682 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also horribly written vanilla.minecraft < 1419493353 910422 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and added the worst ending imaginable < 1419493355 968070 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its been breaking lately < 1419493363 555731 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz of new staff < 1419493367 27912 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see how broken it was in 2010 < 1419493396 868389 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :only big updates are horses and sea temples < 1419493413 752933 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff is getting harder to mod < 1419493442 159401 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :horses and sea temples... < 1419493448 913292 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1419493495 770174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sea horses twh < 1419493516 635562 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wanting to make a thing that translates haskell into another language you want so if you dont know but know haskell so like cheat? < 1419493529 406401 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its probably already been done < 1419493553 178502 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :realtime translation? actually probably not < 1419493584 598426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell translated into another language would be even less readable than the original haskell < 1419493593 524228 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probs < 1419493594 282647 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :its semantics do not map very directly onto most other programming languages. < 1419493603 701005 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shhh < 1419493605 127609 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419493607 654812 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1419493611 154667 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must < 1419493623 391281 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MUST DEFY FATE < 1419493635 37880 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make this work < 1419493638 216407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be good if you didn't say things like "Shhh" and "God dammit woman!" to people who talk to you, it's pretty rude and condescending < 1419493648 155746 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye < 1419493650 798798 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry ;-; < 1419493668 987530 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, apology accepted : < 1419493670 51591 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:p < 1419493682 682834 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a tick just like me scratching my skin away < 1419493686 662593 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm that < 1419493695 269963 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna make dis work < 1419493711 712296 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc haskell is very wonky < 1419493726 338495 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :idk brainfuck is even more wonky < 1419493748 420603 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :wink wonk < 1419493786 371558 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc NICK :Solace|tablestuf < 1419493793 928110 :Solace|tablestuf!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :im gonna go do this < 1419493802 975714 :Solace|tablestuf!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish me lakes < 1419493804 444519 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419494094 534507 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419494240 638228 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419494468 87572 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1419494522 130797 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419494661 229182 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419494683 95121 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyvää joulua #esoteric < 1419494740 282624 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419494790 310242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1419495024 915947 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419495025 826781 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419495208 704173 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, my haskell skills are rusty. < 1419495814 874362 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419496064 582723 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419496195 223677 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419496296 784167 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (\x -> chr (x + 32)) [45,69,82,82,89,0,35,72,82,73,83,84,77,65,83,1] < 1419496298 455838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Merry Christmas!" < 1419496361 483200 :Solace|tablestuf!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1419496473 899486 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419496484 929851 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419496669 874081 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419496702 690831 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419496837 612018 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419496842 86641 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419496845 965018 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419497149 520986 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419497178 163261 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419497357 267863 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419497915 171553 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419498057 393638 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419498264 690921 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419498433 348112 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The haskell version is so much succinct than the Racket one: (apply string (map (λ (x) (integer->char (+ x 32))) '(45 69 82 82 89 0 35 72 82 73 83 84 77 65 83 1))) < 1419498878 698793 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr <$> [45,69,82,82,89,0,35,72,82,73,83,84,77,65,83,1] < 1419498880 180183 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "-ERRY\NUL#HRISTMAS\SOH" < 1419498906 372566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr . (+32) <$> [45,69,82,82,89,0,35,72,82,73,83,84,77,65,83,1] < 1419498907 937635 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Merry Christmas!" < 1419498912 997837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1419498953 333188 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> chr . (+32) . ord <$> "-ERRY\0#HRISTMAS\1" < 1419498954 829304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Merry Christmas!" < 1419498994 781599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCCINCT\1 < 1419499083 188442 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419499193 935208 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419499712 806235 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419500022 796854 :nisscrooge!~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419501969 340882 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In DECB: 5 FORX=1TO16:READN:N=N+32:?CHR$(N);:NEXTX:DATA45,69,82,82,89,0,35,72,82,73,83,84,77,65,83,1 < 1419502101 961835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 5 FORX=1TO16:READN:?CHR$(N+32);:NEXT:DATA45,69,82,82,89,0,35,72,82,73,83,84,77,65,83,1 < 1419502227 725750 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That probably works too. I was debugging and never reverted. < 1419502390 623134 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419502682 351316 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419502968 503828 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419503146 897265 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419503460 582270 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 < 1419503462 526581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5 < 1419503554 551861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 2 = 3; 2 + 2 = 6 in 2 + 2 < 1419503556 26075 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 6 < 1419503571 77611 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419503877 672719 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419505809 258086 :Solace|tablestuf!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmfjlwpetnjbodmc QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419505827 252438 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1419505847 970834 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let 2 = 3 in 2 + 2 < 1419505849 520481 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1419505854 321530 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1419505909 375977 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let -2 = 2 in -2 + -2 < 1419505910 773487 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1419505910 816868 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix ‘GHC.Num.+’ [infixl 6] and prefix `-' [infixl 6] in the same ... < 1419505913 655217 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1419506059 53606 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let (-1) = 1 in (-1)^2 < 1419506060 583319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1419506117 679254 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419506293 559281 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419506454 962746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1419507126 78394 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419507800 596146 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419508236 599236 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :merry christmas, those of you who celebrate it today < 1419508253 99322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I received spam for SEO services < 1419508263 46553 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it reads almost exactly like viagra spam with relevant nouns swapped out < 1419508758 331607 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419508821 835063 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419510076 282670 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419510597 112393 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419510689 260976 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419510691 667222 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your small company negatively affecting your love life? < 1419510909 241971 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419510936 42470 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :After easy, non-invasive enhancement therapy, Rajakrishnan now makes $500/day without leaving the house... find out more < 1419513116 141206 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yvxubzyoveawtvnm QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419513323 479528 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419514223 221655 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419514544 873633 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419514781 233236 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1419514809 384194 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOYEUX NOËËËËËËËËËËËËËL! < 1419516028 911652 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, hi < 1419516327 114494 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419516422 783228 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1419517225 1464 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419517287 110146 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419517604 779744 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: vhellorpal! < 1419517621 499341 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419517905 361544 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419517985 381190 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid JOIN :#esoteric < 1419518108 765050 :Zuu!~zuu@0x5e911bd1.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1419518119 225303 :Zuu!~zuu@0x5e911bd1.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Changing host < 1419518119 268629 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419518431 5625 :tromp!~tromp@ool-18be0b4d.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419518473 280842 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419518577 21700 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419518778 559654 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419518916 877215 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :メリークリスマス！！！ < 1419518940 257596 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloren! < 1419519001 890328 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :今ボイリーは < 1419519018 591543 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ボ < 1419519037 304006 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :すみませんが、ちょっと違いますよ < 1419519049 243835 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :「ボアリ」です < 1419519099 431016 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :（フランス語の性です） < 1419519100 206879 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is poari? < 1419519106 387926 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1419519115 516046 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b, not p :P < 1419519144 707607 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, I misread that < 1419519166 397500 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41536 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+716) 10Harmful Brainfuck < 1419519213 59132 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ﾒﾘｰｸﾘｽﾏｽ､ﾘﾌｽﾗｼｰﾙ｡ < 1419519214 27553 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 즐거운 성탄절 보내시고 새해 복 많이 받으세요 < 1419519227 674832 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1419519233 791496 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect! < 1419519236 359599 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ harmful bf < 1419519270 267850 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :on harmful bf: so it assumes the infinitely-sized cell? < 1419519286 420156 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops! Thanks for that < 1419519289 718192 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot something really important < 1419519304 304402 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: i believe not (hence, not Turing-complete) < 1419519305 951041 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its supposed to be relative jumps < 1419519334 248308 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need unbounded integers (including negative numbers) < 1419519337 665980 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"computed jump operator `*` which moves the program counter to the address in the program given by the current tape cell" < 1419519340 247321 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy, technically speaking, you can. < 1419519344 362198 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me fix that! < 1419519367 413754 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can, what? < 1419519374 663641 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make it Turing-complete* < 1419519377 347401 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41537&oldid=41536 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+77) 10 < 1419519387 71185 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, *if* the jump is relative. < 1419519400 909806 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe via other ways, too, not sure. < 1419519420 589141 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy, BF can simulate TM with a finite size program, so it can immediately jump to the data area after some fixed-size simulator, and at the end of data area (which would set the tape up) it jumps back to the beginning of the simulator. < 1419519428 868519 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can jump back to..* < 1419519456 551531 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are 2 changes in the text now < 1419519459 142619 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) cells are infinite < 1419519461 911309 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) jumps are relative < 1419519474 885411 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning, you need a bignum library to emulate this? < 1419519483 702046 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hvae any changes you want to make to it, please do! Or I can edit it < 1419519484 475872 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is an unconditional jump? < 1419519487 877162 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its' not perfectly designede < 1419519491 162698 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs_, computed jump < 1419519497 621496 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs_, unconditional but computed, so that should be able to do conditionals < 1419519505 918026 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doenst seem powerful enough +I think, maybe im mistaken < 1419519521 359767 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I found some issue with my thought: it cannot be easily terminated. :S < 1419519522 907606 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, good point < 1419519560 998658 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid, what happens when * is run with the out-of-bound offsets? < 1419519569 294770 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. +++* < 1419519583 120374 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CRASH POW ZAP < 1419519584 31987 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of coz < 1419519592 380063 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or launch the nethack < 1419519594 719885 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah crash I dont think here anything else it coud do :P < 1419519607 685951 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some heap corruption and nop slides < 1419519608 927755 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else < 1419519613 469770 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop slides lol < 1419519629 844894 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Harmful Branfuck, bitchez! < 1419519632 35120 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all < 1419519660 578925 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1419519680 703585 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: you need to add some more specifics, what's the cell size (8bits signed integer?), but unless you make the sell size really tiny it should easily be TC, since all you have to implement is one particular universal machine. < 1419519698 365057 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I've addd that unsigned integer of arbitrary size < 1419519712 669744 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I've pointed it out above, but it would be quite hard to terminate that < 1419519745 84257 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1419519746 251772 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1419519758 224498 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was about the absolute-offset variant of harmful bf < 1419519788 688739 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the infinitely-sized-cell relative-offset harmful bf (as currently specified) is definitely TC < 1419519859 333483 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, we discussed a language with slightly similar flavor a while back, where the problem was producing the addresses of forward jumps. < 1419519874 152715 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah because we cannot write binary here like we could in MNNBFSL < 1419519885 667911 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. http://esolangs.org/wiki/MNNBFSL < 1419519981 125385 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is able to GOTO < 1419519983 655419 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I see < 1419519988 323245 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: hmm, if the values are unsigned then relative addresses are not an option. < 1419519992 698831 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :via stack <-> ip manipulation < 1419520008 696862 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki doesn't say unsigned, i think it was just an irc typo < 1419520049 30131 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's why I chose Integer < 1419520056 830215 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh opps < 1419520057 453809 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1419520059 934260 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int-e, I've addd that unsigned integer of arbitrary size < 1419520063 149604 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correction: signed integer < 1419520091 288067 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy, yeah - there is an implemented an assembler for it which gives you labels and 'get label address' < 1419520103 613456 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1419520108 657040 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a bit complex because you have to write in binary and get all the space ready and things < 1419520116 785563 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think the 8 bit signed integer cells version with relative jumps could be interesting to investigate. < 1419520122 372971 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly. < 1419520203 271682 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, it would be quite interesting if goto with offset -128/128 terminates immediately < 1419520213 826080 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no asymmetry! < 1419520230 493701 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the program pointer incremented after a jump? < 1419520237 29233 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: right, but terminating programs is the least of my worries right now ;-) < 1419520240 995973 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I was worried about that killing TC but I supose if you have a 'spine' in your program with notches every 128 then maybe you can get by.... < 1419520243 279213 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1419520245 294726 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes that sounds very interesting < 1419520267 747529 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1419520288 724468 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example the program *, would it be no-op or infinite loop? < 1419520295 610732 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which offset does * jump to itself? < 1419520302 14765 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have multiple 'spines' in the center to 'guide' the jump somewhere < 1419520343 717654 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1419520356 679143 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(many CPUs have offset 0 correspond to the instruction following a jump, that's why I'm asking) < 1419520387 811453 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess it's prettier to have 0 jump to the * itself. < 1419520424 156529 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf loop? < 1419520438 548259 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp 0 ---> 'halt and cach fire' < 1419520458 899058 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: that's also a natural candidate for immediate program termination :P < 1419520460 649007 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can add a mnemonic to the assembler HCF < 1419520525 479104 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if jmp 0 terminates, how can one make an infinite loop? < 1419520531 669451 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp --1 < 1419520543 966493 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, well < 1419520546 626898 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where opcode at -1 pos is NOP < 1419520554 928326 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1419520559 574491 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, we could have -128..-1 jump to instructions before the * and 0..127 to instructions after the *, never jumping to the * itself. That would also be sort of symmeric. < 1419520561 327737 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is it possible? < 1419520571 62192 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1419520587 72736 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it not have NOP ? < 1419520588 688153 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do comment characters count? < 1419520596 887331 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards the offset calculation, that is < 1419520605 58739 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNSPECIFIED < 1419520615 358031 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so it is like an undefined behavior in C/C++ < 1419520621 355690 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like. < 1419520632 871886 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are free to launch the nethack or cause the earth destruction < 1419520633 555647 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may, or may not. go into infinite loop. < 1419520639 291673 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or halt and catch fire. < 1419520641 439684 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would be pleased when the latter is possible) < 1419520643 36414 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on implementation < 1419520664 22882 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419520680 552290 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes comment chars shoudl count I think < 1419520685 417937 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it might be too hard < 1419520695 283573 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1419520701 116837 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment chars are kind of fun in MNNBFSL < 1419520703 371530 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then `- *` is a simple infinite loop < 1419520708 245889 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :--+-* < 1419520710 126699 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :inf loop < 1419520712 970630 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :without NOP < 1419520716 734024 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm! < 1419520716 979038 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+-) = NOP < 1419520721 920889 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ok. I think I'll play with a version with +-<>.,* and nops, and jumps centered on the * (* on a 0 cell loops forever), and 8 bit signed cells. < 1419520733 647696 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTE: -+ == NOP < 1419520737 972619 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy: nope < 1419520747 299434 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... unless it does not wrap around properly. < 1419520747 588082 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy: you can't jump in there at an arbitrary place < 1419520763 957601 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. i'm just saying, +- is equivalent to NOP. < 1419520772 982245 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just told you that it's not < 1419520774 292343 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming wrap around) < 1419520783 174159 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, explain? < 1419520786 126804 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DID < 1419520796 27433 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1419520804 129658 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you jump into the middle of the -+ then the effect will not be a nop. < 1419520808 588089 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1419520816 998639 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, if you jump to -2. it is equivalent. < 1419520819 79690 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to NOP. < 1419520827 58857 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, just don't jump to -1 ! and it'll be OK < 1419520834 878301 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you can jump there anyways... for added fun and effect < 1419520835 153914 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not a nop in the scope of the language. < 1419520835 676672 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1419520839 388043 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1419520855 35751 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't jump into the middle to skip the first part of it, it is a NOP. < 1419520863 268706 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do, then it's your fault. < 1419520876 669825 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is Harmful Brainfuck, don't forget! < 1419520881 376565 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be careful, where you jump. < 1419520921 631564 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sure you can add comment chars, if you want to make it easier, and less fun) < 1419521201 839586 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1419521362 863584 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Cheese+++14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=41538 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+1557) 10Cheese+++ < 1419521413 615240 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck derivatives14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41539&oldid=41522 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+24) 10/* GOTO FUCK */ < 1419521464 688095 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Cluid Zhasulelm14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41540&oldid=41513 5* 03Cluid Zhasulelm 5* (+129) 10 < 1419521590 699170 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it called harmful? < 1419521602 156690 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'GOTO is considered harmful' < 1419521604 684401 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard that? :) < 1419521613 134284 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1419521619 283804 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :title of a famous paper < 1419521642 881217 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.u.arizona.edu/~rubinson/copyright_violations/Go_To_Considered_Harmful.html < 1419521648 43200 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had heard of it, yes < 1419521652 614193 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright_violations haha < 1419521662 241494 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1419521670 937211 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least he's upfront about it < 1419521695 112077 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419521708 309029 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, based on this article, Harmful Brainfuck will have disastrous effects on program readability and maintainability < 1419521715 271018 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1419521726 432673 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't be easily read nice structured brainfuck < 1419521734 977485 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1419521809 36234 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maintaining Harmful Brainfuck programs will be harder than with regular Brainfuck < 1419521823 787758 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill write an impementation in C < 1419521831 542908 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead :P < 1419521831 963912 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should it be javascript < 1419521835 477106 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will be easiest for people to use < 1419521841 48095 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C sounds good < 1419521947 876562 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :C would be good for adding it to anarchy golf < 1419522273 987175 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming it turns out to be a powerful enough language) < 1419522427 161846 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fdDN?c ... based on the bfgolf reference implementation. < 1419522451 616744 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh thanks! < 1419522464 592055 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we please put this on the wiki? < 1419522476 8543 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean link to it < 1419522477 434881 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no range error checking fr jump? < 1419522479 243883 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gues.. < 1419522490 10659 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there is. < 1419522492 302254 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :later on < 1419522498 499172 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 bit cells could make for some awkward jumping schemes, although maybe that would be more fun for some people < 1419522503 898018 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1419522516 39388 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some central 'spine' in the program at 128/256 intervals... < 1419522556 493500 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe signed ints and the two jumps. ] to go left and [ to right right... < 1419522564 746299 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned** < 1419522580 67135 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I added some redundant checks there. < 1419522592 216643 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419522683 520550 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i spot an error < 1419522692 500227 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (a[p] == -128) { < 1419522704 409871 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be 'if (a[p] == -129)' < 1419522707 722093 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :-128 is valid < 1419522734 183379 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'if (p > MAXBUF) {' should be < 1419522739 725913 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (p == MAXBUF) { < 1419522757 392610 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, if MAXBUF = 32768, then a[32768] is out of range < 1419522778 170971 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -128 is intentional, for symmetry. THe other one was a brainfart, but a harmless one since it's checked again below. < 1419522827 172462 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. it's checked at 2 places. < 1419522840 211588 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no range check for IP overflow/underflow. < 1419522883 116163 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can jump anywhere outside of the program space to terminate it. < 1419522896 872741 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :except, it wouldn't terminate it. < 1419522901 522597 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it? < 1419522915 414297 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (ip >= 0 && ip < code_len) { <-- that should do the trick < 1419522924 787038 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1419522928 421875 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1419522960 113382 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DDLH?c -- removed the unintentional changes. < 1419523001 943265 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to output 0xff ? < 1419523006 985896 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :' if (a[p] == -128) { ' this is probably incorrect < 1419523011 935256 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as -128 is valid as a signed char < 1419523015 761351 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :-129 isn't < 1419523030 561131 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs_, you can output it as negative < 1419523035 560255 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is... -1 < 1419523040 861742 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 0xFF < 1419523041 930285 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, i made a mistake then < 1419523050 473800 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the unsigned equivalent of -128 is < 1419523052 329798 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mitchs_: 0x80 is the value that's omitted. < 1419523055 673071 :mitchs_!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1419523073 920370 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is, why is it omitted. < 1419523080 831899 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :symmetry! < 1419523091 762276 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about symmetry? < 1419523096 469472 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care about being able to output 0x80 < 1419523157 421332 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419523224 11303 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419523282 993839 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419523284 975731 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let me rewrite the thing so that it can be legally on the wiki... < 1419523366 82952 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419523385 221289 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419523554 930481 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :more seriously, , was implemented wrong. < 1419523568 540484 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419524014 624228 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419524157 3518 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419524463 412867 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about http://sprunge.us/YXfd?c < 1419524543 738048 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there really aren't that many degrees of freedom for writing such an interpreter.) < 1419524668 114332 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good! < 1419524683 910320 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the case ',' could be written shorter as, data[p] = (signed char)getchar() ? < 1419524716 509107 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :althought that's not fully equivalent < 1419524718 565891 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this loooks great thanks a lot! < 1419524721 817252 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it ip += data[p] - 1; < 1419524737 453570 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: because there'll be an ip++ later. < 1419524738 675982 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cos: for (ip = 0; ip >= 0 && ip < size; ip++) { < 1419524741 5164 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ip++ < 1419524754 837792 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: and I wanted to have 0 jump to the * itself. < 1419524791 546782 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's inf. loop < 1419524804 243531 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :) < 1419524937 738919 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good! so who writes the first 'towers of hanoi' in harmful brainfuck? :P < 1419525372 274806 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419525432 426758 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just sems too hard! < 1419525438 631037 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be so cool if someone managed < 1419525663 853861 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419525733 155622 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I almost missed the "gotos considered harmful" reference. < 1419526132 384757 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419526694 535639 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoofy: btw, casting an out-of-range integer value to a signed type has "implementation-defined" behavior; an implementation is free to specify various behaviours (ideas include wrap-around, saturation, and raising a signal). < 1419526706 117159 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1419526789 358032 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then again I should probably be more careful with that putchar() call if I wanted the code to be portable. Oh and not use ints for values larger than 32767...) < 1419526890 633113 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should program in assembly for sureness < 1419526939 461291 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluid: go ahead, don't let us stop you < 1419526997 913320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419527029 972819 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419527036 447098 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419527045 342051 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419527052 399297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cluid just left < 1419527067 594188 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, just write it in Brainfuck < 1419527067 890431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF except with "goto current tape location" is almost certainly TC, despite the claims of the article < 1419527068 880067 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :POKE-d the wrong address, I bet. < 1419527072 364917 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for maximum portability, ya know < 1419527075 352641 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably is even with 8-bit cells, although that's less obvious < 1419527092 301248 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys should implement it in brainfuck, to make it portable < 1419527157 589732 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the natural file extension for harmful brainfuck is .h :-) < 1419527218 45992 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :.hbf < 1419527237 934011 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not so harmful ;-) < 1419527259 832946 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not so conveninet. < 1419527286 22140 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is a polyglot in C and also compiles to C, i wouldn't call that 'harmful'. < 1419527304 805416 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so the downside of the infinite loop on 0 is that one cannot process arbitrary binary data. But that's no obstacle to TC-ness. < 1419527305 245654 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419527318 806081 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess ais523 just saw that restriction) < 1419527384 621589 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, jmp 0 puts it into inf loop. < 1419527393 117537 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so first you have to test for zero. < 1419527401 752674 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is the only conditional we have < 1419527420 708685 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419527446 115706 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419527454 488568 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmm......... < 1419527468 690325 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's tricky. < 1419527485 581255 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0x00 in data means "halt and catch fire" < 1419527812 327938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that means it's not BF-complete, not that it's not TC < 1419527858 583944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might even be possible to write arbitrary programs in it, and get full TC (not just curly-L), via appending data to a short interp < 1419527976 310268 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might switch to 9 bit signed ints to make it BF-complete. < 1419528021 436371 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419528363 355044 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419528622 375151 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419528657 279586 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-220.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1419528690 244993 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419528694 212145 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-220.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1419528694 255564 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1419528752 414532 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419529064 609004 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419529215 941415 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419529840 365461 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is fancy-L completeness defined? < 1419529867 699550 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419530147 173454 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41541&oldid=41537 5* 03212.95.7.129 5* (+939) 10Semantic update (* is relative), and example program. < 1419530220 314062 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419530377 718084 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Harmful Brainfuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41542&oldid=41541 5* 03212.95.7.129 5* (-13) 10fix extra spaces < 1419530450 424425 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there should be dialects: absolutely harmful brainfuck and relatively harmful brainfuck... < 1419530474 210726 :scoofy!~spirit@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1419530524 578155 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419530574 150707 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Version Schema < 1419530574 230686 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINOR: increased every christmas, may be API incompatible" < 1419530643 456412 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419530646 977658 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that from? < 1419530685 747760 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj JOIN :#esoteric < 1419530695 207348 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.reddit.com/r/ruby/comments/2qcvoz/ruby_220_released/ < 1419531691 898897 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker JOIN :#esoteric < 1419531751 357734 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker TOPIC #esoteric :The channel of returning trolls | but often spelled correctly. | /join #esolang http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1419531926 47113 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de TOPIC #esoteric :The channel of returning trolls | but often spelled correctly. | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1419531977 911270 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1419532010 949708 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, my thought exactly. < 1419532027 607658 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this may be of interest to you. < 1419532678 270801 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419532792 262528 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.51 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419532814 327843 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, someone drill into my teeth. < 1419532900 367209 :SopaXorzTaker!~Mark@unaffiliated/sopaxorztaker QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419533014 983683 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this might be just the thing for you: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090306 < 1419533117 805804 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes please. < 1419533434 649793 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interestingly, #esolang was registered 8 years ago, but it's totally empty. < 1419533994 403577 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course the founder is actually here. Hi Zuu :) < 1419534241 176750 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419534414 677625 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419534422 881934 :shikhin_!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1419534892 970658 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419536012 260390 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419536390 202189 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419537094 93522 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419537184 721394 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419537564 559767 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419537877 110525 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419537929 287114 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something like Lisp could be made to target this format http://rpg.hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/HSZ it would probably be better than the existing compiler. It could be called "Hamster Lisp" compiler. < 1419538009 177815 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man ohrrpgce < 1419538016 57552 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember using that over a decade ago < 1419538047 11265 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj PRIVMSG #esoteric :those default 3d-ish smiley sprites were great < 1419538157 90066 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419538230 152046 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This format is a tree data so it seem like a Lisp like format with macros would be a good way to compile into such a thing. < 1419538291 317686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: If you have worked with that, have you worked with BAM music files? I have written a program to convert BAM into VGM so that you can play them with VGMPlay (which includes a OPL2 emulator). < 1419538322 719422 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj PRIVMSG #esoteric :those words may have meant something to me back in like 2002 < 1419538339 354172 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jmvulktbdojlqxmj PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just surprised this thing is still around < 1419538547 581801 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The modern version is license by GNU GPL, and can no longer play BAM; it converts BAM to MIDI and plays it back, resulting in it isn't very good since MIDI will play back differently depending on the computer and cannot contain OPL2 instruments. < 1419539020 220124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing is that although fonts in OHRRPGCE are 8x8 mono, they do not use a common format; however, they are equivalent to the common format with the characters rotated and a header added. < 1419539061 174527 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The header is simply a BSAVE header.) < 1419539082 863175 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anybody said what you have to do to be fancy-L complete? < 1419539120 146579 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Did you look in the wiki about fancy-L completeness? < 1419539129 379880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: a language is fancy-L complete if at least one program in that language is an interpreter for a TC language < 1419539172 88236 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read it once, but i'm not clear of what to think about it < 1419539192 424101 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if it is less or more specific than tc < 1419539351 733180 :InvalidCo!invalidco@makkara.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1419539550 212921 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't entirely clear to me either, although I can see by the wiki clearly describes what fancy-L is, although how it interacted with computation class and that stuff is unknown. < 1419539692 728709 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419539719 930449 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't people here mentioned something like "only fancy-L but not tc"? < 1419539927 787151 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like does HQ9+B count for example? < 1419539936 524763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't quite know. < 1419540012 760208 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! < 1419540017 997984 :boily!~alexandre@modemcable184.4-177-173.mc.videotron.ca QUIT :Quit: EMERALD CHICKEN < 1419540063 750830 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any such thing as some Lisp variant where you can have local names guaranteed not to conflict with outer names by for example if (CONSTANT X 42) may define a constant X as 42 but (~X (CONSTANT X 42)) does not redefine X at all from the view outside of that block (it defines an inaccessible constant)? < 1419540152 203576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And if you typed (~CONSTANT (CONSTANT X 42)) then it would be an error because the CONSTANT command is not understood.) < 1419540191 459655 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: In the most recent context, the term used was "BF-complete", which includes I/O capabilities. < 1419540396 621084 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case I'm happy with calling the elements of fancy-L Turing-complete, because some trivial input preprocessing is allowed, and prepending a constant string is quite trivial. But it is indeed slightly disturbing that such a fundamental concept has no universally (sic!) agreed formal definition. < 1419540500 100750 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a job for the eso standard group? < 1419540551 316183 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I do not know what you mean by prepending a constant string < 1419540570 958400 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example fancy L is the language with exactly one program, run_bf(read_stdin()) < 1419540621 370185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Yes it is what the problem is, it seems, in fact. < 1419540627 542038 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I thought too. < 1419540634 902838 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah, I *want* self-delimiting programs. Then I prepend the brainfuck program to the input. < 1419540653 7858 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1419540660 260944 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, input is at the heart of the fancy L problem < 1419540687 600102 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]#12345 < 1419540707 356953 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean ! < 1419540717 129423 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]#12345 < 1419540719 295022 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1419540723 780115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean ! < 1419540727 984167 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bf ,[.,]!12345 < 1419540728 419404 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1419540749 827382 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not. < 1419540753 21038 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!q < 1419540753 191059 :fungot!fis@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1419540768 866302 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to be the fourth choice, of course. < 1419540772 25011 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ha, did you think I meant the ! at the start of the line? :) < 1419540778 941840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even think of that interpretation until now < 1419540851 107751 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, with that convention, ^bf is universal, even though it's a fixed program with only one stream of input. < 1419540881 462274 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(imo, ymmv) < 1419540886 669324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf ,[.,]!q < 1419540897 310829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, EgoBot is faster < 1419540908 637696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or HackEgo's malfunctioning again < 1419540910 117036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf ,[.,]!q < 1419540917 249250 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1419540940 737374 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1419541047 852046 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: okay, but I think the position here is that f("...!...") is really just notation for g("...", "...") < 1419541054 504313 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the point is to fix the first argument of g < 1419541070 29216 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419541072 937115 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is that we can argue about it all day, of course < 1419541080 110594 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419541122 327106 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course, that's the point of any self-delimiting encoding of things as strings of atoms: you can encode a stream of things in a stream of atoms. < 1419541158 459173 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need to be careful not to drown. < 1419541185 348251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I guess the point is that (a) generally we define TCness in terms of (program, input), *not* single strings; (b) regardless, however many arguments you have, one of them has to be fixed. < 1419541233 532355 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Chaitin got this right. < 1419541237 959503 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- e.g., note that the theory is generally in terms of "functions" rather than "computation" (which is one of the major ambiguities of TCness in terms of things like CAs and so on) < 1419541244 172968 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"computations" < 1419541265 6694 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas bf("...!...") is a "computation" where you encode the input inside. so it's not too conventional from this perspective. < 1419541277 866692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, there is really no "input", it's just like perl's __DATA__; a data-encoding part of the program) < 1419541286 982640 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Chaitin's Algorithmic Information Theory has self-delimiting programs and inputs almost everywhere.) < 1419541293 372590 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419541306 976933 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if Chaitin had already come up with the fancy L idea. < 1419541723 973898 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: bf("...!...") <-- but this is what universal TMs do as well, encode a TM in the initial part of the tape followed by the actual TM's input, possibly recoded to compensate for mismatches in the alphabet. < 1419541754 821931 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: sure, yeah. that is one of the most perverse things about it: UTMs are often the odd one out in the way we think about TCness :) < 1419541803 382122 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviosusly I consider UTMs to be TC, though I see the potential to disagree.) < 1419541804 375914 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: some definitions of UTMs use a separate input tape < 1419541821 53083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, which only allows "read and move forwards" instructions, not moving backwards or writing < 1419541876 241012 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, there are actually too many flavors of TMs as well. < 1419541894 909233 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :All morally equivalent, but that's rarely spelled out formally. < 1419542012 937887 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it matters a lot when you're trying to define "equivalent" < 1419542056 557531 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Imagine implementing a chess engine on a Minsky counter machine. "Oh, see, that machine is not interactive. So you have to plan ahead, predict the machine's moves, collect all your replies and encode them all at once as input by plugging it into the following crazy formula...") < 1419542114 980815 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's just the same with the bf("...!...") thing, of course.) < 1419542150 601879 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: wouldn't you give the machine a description of what you'd play in all possible situations? < 1419542168 989607 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uploads brain) finally, I can play chess with a computer < 1419542178 535206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm trying to be *cough* practical here. < 1419542186 955761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: to be fair, I don't think any notion of TC cares about "interactive" < 1419542197 106762 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input tends to be specified up-front, formally < 1419542197 894405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have a notion of BF-completeness because of this sort of thing < 1419542219 361081 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: of course not. nobody cares, since one can start as many computations as one likes. < 1419542240 91324 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yes, why don't we just make the computations do single steps instead of looping... oh wait < 1419542258 340278 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but we *were* discussing the role of input and output, and this really matters a lot when interaction comes into play. < 1419542322 617874 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scope of "nobody" was theoretical computer scientists (like myself), and I'm sure there are exceptions. < 1419542359 500631 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke < 1419542394 39258 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm serious. Mostly. < 1419542414 896527 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419542431 118847 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds off-topic < 1419542446 45609 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing Completeness Science is no laughing matter! < 1419542656 112195 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419543091 643792 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ｓｏ，　ａｂｏｕｔ　　ｔｈａｔ　ｗｉｄｅｃｈａｒ　ｌａｎｇｕａｇｅ < 1419543142 667398 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've decided to make it using an actual formal grammar < 1419543198 390167 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any real reason to not just take normal letters? < 1419543202 375221 :^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419543244 741831 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language will only accept characters that are full width < 1419543257 883694 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :halfwidth chars will be used only for comments < 1419543471 26836 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1419543502 392591 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1 < 1419543715 291947 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419543917 439706 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :data types will be such as: 整数、正整数、実数、文字列 < 1419543950 394162 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, integer, unsigned, real number, character string < 1419544019 409068 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419544048 618461 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :⣾⣉⣷ ⣿⣀⣿ ⣿⣉⡷ ⣾⢉⣓ ⣿⣀⣿ ⣿ < 1419544048 661689 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :⠿ ⠿ ⠿ ⠿ ⠿ ⠿ ⠻⠤⠟ ⠿ ⠿ ⠶ < 1419544071 32212 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ＡＨＲＧＨ？　 < 1419544099 269716 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ｉｎｔ－ｅ，　ｗｈａｔ　ｈａｓ　ｙｏｕ　ｒｉｌｅｄ　ｕｐ　ｔｏｄａｙ？ < 1419544142 539527 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the wide characters grew old yesterday. < 1419544162 27511 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, christmas. Well, at least that's pretty much over. < 1419544207 449756 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wll i dunno how to do the quad-width double height chars you did... < 1419544329 834181 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :整数　人＝ < 1419544343 587113 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :１２＋３ < 1419544382 48077 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⣾⣉⣷ < 1419544383 2207 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+28FE BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-2345678] [U+28C9 BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-1478] [U+28F7 BRAILLE PATTERN DOTS-1235678] < 1419544388 375196 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I manually composed them from braille patterns. < 1419544395 836152 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419544443 497741 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you script that I'll put you on ignore. promised. < 1419544470 621556 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :script what? < 1419544488 424540 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a braille-pattern based font < 1419544500 680152 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419544501 659029 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no plans on that sounds too hard < 1419544574 298159 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I really *am* grumpy today. < 1419544593 594576 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since i can get a relatively large font just by using the wide latin mode on my IME < 1419544658 798992 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry I'll be kicking if the doublewidth text thing goes on too long < 1419544670 782305 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I will allow it if oren speaks exclusively in japanese < 1419544671 920557 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm worried < 1419544715 708271 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :そうか？　ＯＫです < 1419544804 677142 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :心配しない、コップロさん。日本語は簡単だよ。 < 1419544814 618145 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact: I cannot read japanese < 1419544823 703933 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I approve of this esoteric language < 1419544871 748616 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :どうもありがとうございます < 1419544893 426822 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I regret everything < 1419545040 690378 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can actually understand what oren is saying :O
< 1419545053 20869 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can as well
< 1419545060 113031 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with the help of kanji dictionary, but still < 1419545065 275139 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :安心しよ、エリオットさん。難しくなってば、俺は英語に喋る < 1419545082 788601 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I plugged it into a dictionary I could probably get the gist of it < 1419545088 447135 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanji ga kantan ssu yo. < 1419545093 400467 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gomen, IME nai) < 1419545145 303775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice "eriotto-san" < 1419545167 750184 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's because a dictionary turns it into english >< < 1419545214 648602 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :漢字は簡単、でも文法は難しい < 1419545226 19609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be "-sama" when I'm threatening to kick you < 1419545242 446057 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends on his opinions towards being kicked I suppose. < 1419545328 181963 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :「どの」かな？ < 1419545353 457801 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :江戸時代っらしいけど。 < 1419545611 542718 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is The Interview a good movie? Should I watch it? < 1419545619 332297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1419545741 326807 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :でわ諸君。全角プログラミング言語の文法わ、半分ALGOLと半分LISPでいいかな？ < 1419545802 694184 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hör auf < 1419545921 57898 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :流れ制御はALGOLらしい、でも数学はやっぱりLISPの方がいい。 < 1419545953 460203 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: this is an english channel < 1419545978 387914 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :エリオットの命令だよ。 < 1419546045 476451 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott> although I will allow it if oren speaks exclusively in japanese < 1419546080 514834 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :だから、日本語で話します。 < 1419546129 998328 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i hate you < 1419546166 509994 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1419546182 609417 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419546213 910018 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :どうしてマイネーム怒ってる？ < 1419546218 454812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419546224 589367 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419546238 937223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :an important life skill is knowing when to stop < 1419546258 613881 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine. it was fun while it lasted < 1419546289 666991 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419546295 270603 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got to say dewa shokun unironically < 1419546418 103296 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i meant by half-lisp half algol is something like this: x=(* a (- z y)) < 1419546515 66245 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i hate the algol math-like syntax, so i'm replacing it with s-expressions < 1419546533 726187 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :while retaining an algol-like control flow < 1419546584 160412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are the control flows different? < 1419546630 754999 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp control flow uses tail recursion, while algol uses explicit while conditions < 1419546644 237635 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419546648 271834 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often explicit counter variables < 1419546716 284424 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :``for i from 0 to N'' and such < 1419546717 41634 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `for: not found < 1419546769 637960 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit can't i begin a sentence with a symbol without setting off the bots < 1419546794 402050 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there are a couple of things that work fine" < 1419546796 617148 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's not accurate < 1419546815 144447 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail recursion is not really idiomatic in common lisp and often not optimised away, and it has a very elaborate iteration construct in LOOP < 1419546819 197294 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Partly thanks to elliott's diligence. ) < 1419546829 912121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme isn't representative of lisp as a whole < 1419546850 172291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is it diligence when I only kicked it because it annoyed the crap out of me? :p < 1419546871 826486 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: e.g., http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html < 1419546893 292017 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(LOOP is kind of weird. I don't like its fairly "unlispy" mini-DSL. but it is iteration through and through) < 1419546924 247692 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rather terrifyingly elaborate: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/m_loop.htm < 1419546946 382515 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that was the other thing that made me turn my back on common lisp... < 1419546948 882541 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/, which a lot of people prefer due to it having more parentheses. (half-kidding.) < 1419546971 466507 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not just loop, but also that sort of documentation) < 1419546999 128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have this view of "lisp" as being this very clean, very functional, anti-imperative thing with a lot of recursion but actually scheme is the odd one out in its relative purity of design < 1419547004 456101 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is negative today, trying to underflow.
< 1419547027 973751 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is sane! < 1419547030 766062 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, my idea of the "Hamster Lisp" would resemble more closely control flows of C, since the target binary code expects it, and the source trees would resemble the binary codes closely (other than macros). < 1419547054 668965 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is *not* exactly simple and elegant, either < 1419547065 42248 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that letrec + call-with-current-continuation is enough to implement mutable cells with no explicit mutability? < 1419547076 635399 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, y'know, the whole dynamic-wind monstrosity... < 1419547084 22134 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, neither is Haskell. < 1419547086 832406 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, its strings are mutable, but they cannot change in length(!) < 1419547095 842928 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this despite R7RS trying to be all unicodey...) < 1419547147 38125 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that only esoteric languages can be simple and elegant. < 1419547156 697798 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonus: Scheme's map can more or less either be tail-recursive, interoperate properly with call-with-current-continuation instead of breaking, or iterate through the list only once -- pick two < 1419547166 772101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really most of the problems are down to call/cc. < 1419547181 287545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty abstraction-breaking, especially in a higher-order context. < 1419547214 360603 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So scheme minus call/cc is sane? < 1419547257 116811 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme minus call/cc is a better-behaved language that is easier to reason about. there is reasonable doubt about how useful call/cc actually is, even when you want continuations; you usually want delimited ones, like Haskell's Cont monad. < 1419547271 802634 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/against-callcc.html for oleg's anti-call/cc propaganda < 1419547392 254578 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish R7RS made it optional or something, but I think that'd be politically difficult. call/cc is shiny and fun and seems elegant in its power, people like to use it, and it's part of the image of Scheme. < 1419547414 621076 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419547498 902190 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, have an implementation of IORef with call/cc and letrec: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.scheme/7BKqC7jwZTQ/uf0buv--J7wJ < 1419547506 636408 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: terrifying < 1419547523 86190 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419547530 703911 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419547575 829840 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see how this happens from the rather precise definition of LETREC: < 1419547580 232980 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Semantics: The hvariableis are bound to fresh locations holding unspecified values, the hinitis are evaluated in the resulting environment (in some unspecified order), each hvariablei is assigned to the result of the corresponding hiniti, the hbodyi is evaluated in the resulting environment, and the values of the last expression in hbodyi are returned. Each binding of a hvariablei has the ... < 1419547586 204318 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... entire letrec expres- sion as its region, making it possible to define mutually recursive procedures." < 1419547609 395996 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in effect, call/cc lets us pull out the mutability in the definition of letrec where ordinarily it would be impossible to exploit. < 1419547677 868876 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. so, i'm not really talking about lisp when i say lisp, i'm talking about scheme < 1419547682 415565 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, some 'h' and 'i' appear to be whitespace. < 1419547705 2169 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :font changes? or spacing? < 1419547820 639142 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419547861 835566 :oren!~oren@nrba4-34.onlink.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, so essentially by grammar (on paper) is looking like a chinese version of BASIC with S-exprs instead of infix math < 1419547876 886999 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: the fancy <>s < 1419547884 88057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the ones. the tuple ones < 1419547919 327993 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1419547946 695316 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even have them... «»⟪⟫ < 1419547961 385257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :("One sometimes hears a misleading statement that ``it is possible to implement Scheme's set! in terms of Scheme's call/cc and letrec.'' The statement mis-represents Alan Bawden's observation that according to Scheme standards and common practice, letrec is implemented in terms of set!; that hidden set! can be `pried open' with call/cc. Of course letrec can be implemented without set!, for ... < 1419547964 821382 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :here: ⟨⟩ < 1419547967 650475 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... example, via the fix-point combinator. The inability of call/cc to express mutable state becomes clear then. Section 4.4 of Friedman and Sabry's ``Recursion is a Computational Effect'' has the detailed explanation." -- Oleg) < 1419548027 751913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you implement law of excluded middle continuations in Scheme? < 1419548037 191859 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419548134 490625 :augur!~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419548586 20113 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I unsee this term: "co-finalizers" ... < 1419548739 127651 :S1!~S1@pD9FCA0D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419548749 675832 :not^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419548980 382747 :^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419549142 692781 :^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419549323 254492 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid JOIN :#esoteric < 1419549339 682072 :not^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419549352 40505 :not^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419549375 422616 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1419549412 30320 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:55:10 How would you implement law of excluded middle continuations in Scheme? < 1419549527 655659 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8.7. Control operators and CPS translations < 1419549534 275843 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lectures on the curr y howard isomorphism, talks about this < 1419549544 61280 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419549562 968393 :^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419549572 268936 :cluid!~cluid@unaffiliated/cluid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ∆ may be regarded as a control operator similar to call/cc of Scheme and exceptions of ML, and the double negation embedding of classical logic into intuitionisitic logic corresponds to well-known CPS-translations < 1419549668 161933 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.50.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419549683 55220 :not^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419550753 419369 :^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419551008 252209 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419551528 358061 :^v!~notnot^v@50.153.110.148 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419551862 569788 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419551959 644726 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric