< 1419120002 218224 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :web comics, code golfing, Haskell, the many warts of C, category theory and esoteric programming languages. < 1419120004 735528 :TheM4ch1n3!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a programmer, and sleepy atm ... < 1419120034 634573 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also orthography and grammar. < 1419120043 423530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleepy atms are bad, they keep your money < 1419120075 490435 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :same except without the sleepy part < 1419120079 820006 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... I forgot the most important topic: puns. < 1419120091 551376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you make this channel sound so much better than it actually is :p < 1419120103 566988 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're welcome :P < 1419120112 758561 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are atm? < 1419120138 382753 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm an automated teller machine; I automatically tell this channel things < 1419120165 482397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a web comic about code golfing in esoteric programming languages the category theory of the many warts of C < 1419120195 881457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK you can try to make such a comic? < 1419120242 194503 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the main topic of this channel is esoteric programming but a lot of things can be discussed; of course, mostly the things listed there. < 1419120305 443264 :TheM4ch1n3!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419120436 77298 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419120721 65496 :shikhout!~shikhin@59.177.201.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419120742 546476 :shikhout!~shikhin@59.177.201.122 NICK :Guest31893 < 1419120892 720089 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419121190 121245 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1419121411 441754 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the nightly build of something mean they compile the whole project every night? < 1419121510 631485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1419121541 883581 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i compile most of my projects every few minutes when i'm working on them < 1419121548 341535 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia says a nightly build is a neutral build done automatically < 1419121567 347817 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, "a neutral build is a software build that reflects the current state of the source code checked into the source code version control system by the developers, and done in a neutral environment (an environment not used for development)" < 1419121602 782834 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh... i get it. it's a clean build with nothing from previousbuilds < 1419121665 608897 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can know that the whole thing actually compiles, and doesn't just work on their system < 1419121724 340029 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. Now they know it works on one other system. < 1419121758 842410 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. yeah the rust source code doesn't compile on my system. < 1419121780 450767 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes all my memory and forces me to kill it < 1419121943 324343 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they also know that it has all the source files and isn't just using a .o file that was left around... < 1419121943 406726 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07MNNBFSL14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41521&oldid=41506 5* 03AndoDaan 5* (-64) 10/* External resources */ Live version. < 1419121943 632947 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1419121943 842411 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419121943 963449 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Client Quit < 1419121944 406347 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rpblguotauhtdnvz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419121970 706286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish < 1419122012 667993 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah that's what i thought. well i'm trying to at least install the binaries now, we'll see if they work... < 1419122143 593613 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: out of curiosity, how much memory do you have? < 1419122160 575348 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough < 1419122171 592343 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: btw have you heard of swap < 1419122176 292819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well that's true for everybody. < 1419122184 108322 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah but it's a very not enough < 1419122198 788538 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 2GB of memory and 2GB swap < 1419122201 255333 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 1 or 2 gigabytes the last time this came up re: firefox's amazing incredible huge gigantic bloat that needs to be rlimited away, or something < 1419122231 974895 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: ah. ok, that's small nowadays. < 1419122235 400989 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am running 64-bit linux < 1419122261 601669 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION had to upgrade to 8GB because 4GB was too little for some stuff. < 1419122262 325270 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott already told me thats dumb < 1419122288 974243 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 16 gigabytes and I'd still kind of like more < 1419122295 677150 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough but more breathing room would be good < 1419122307 186130 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :64000 bytes should be enought for anyone < 1419122327 716846 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this PC's motherboard can't handle more than 8 GB, unfortunately.) < 1419122353 75623 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am on a cheap craptop < 1419122366 260015 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-077-173-086.088.077.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419122368 405157 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor lambdabot is confined to a 512 MB+512 MB swap VM. < 1419122392 968886 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419122405 465455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more RAM + bigger SSD is the finest luxury of computing < 1419122451 592343 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently rustc binaries install fine, i just can't compile them myself < 1419122491 819862 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how that's surprising < 1419122520 153329 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419122531 914101 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually i will buy a less crappy computer, like in a year or so < 1419122652 524012 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxkgbgmpihcwsxev JOIN :#esoteric < 1419122812 547265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :craptop is such a nice word < 1419122850 917428 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the term was "netbook". < 1419122948 647928 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have one. I don't build software on it anymore. The last big thing I compiled was ghc 7.6.1...) < 1419122961 400377 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :So apparently dark is faster than light since it carries no information and im done with physics forever < 1419123032 416265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: well it's not really an object... < 1419123044 725709 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeh < 1419123050 631269 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." - Pratchett (via Google) < 1419123128 107419 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :From "Reaper Man", hmm. < 1419123130 458637 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in geometric terms the point when you close scissors gets to the end before the blades close so if you were to use really long (light year) sized scissor blades would the point still get there as fast < 1419123148 702723 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna go eat < 1419123157 899826 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :And back to heresy < 1419123176 891458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: that's absolutely nowhere _near_ the weirdest thing in physics. it doesn't really even need relativity or quantum mechanics < 1419123211 369328 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders whether "Solace" has any relation to "Quantum" < 1419123233 993094 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you heat the head of a pin to the same point as the core of the sun it will kill every living thing in a 1000 mile radious < 1419123249 729209 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :What int-e ? < 1419123287 250439 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: apparently not. (There's that James Bond movie.) < 1419123289 544238 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the head of a pin? i'm not sure i buy that, needs some calculation... < 1419123309 182417 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :15 billion kelvin < 1419123313 44630 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is pretty hot < 1419123315 892434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1419123318 553414 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many fairies can dance on that head of a pin? < 1419123330 309937 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what about plank temperature < 1419123330 524337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure the core of the sun isn't believed to be that hot < 1419123374 269850 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: million, not billion < 1419123386 143865 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry < 1419123395 316206 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like what < 1419123438 371426 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i remember that fusion reactors are only millions, but they still have to be _hotter_ than the sun to compensate for lack of pressure. < 1419123446 977547 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plank temperature is 141e^31 i think < 1419123450 818050 :qlkzy_!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com NICK :qlkzy < 1419123458 592224 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Planck? i forget how its spelt < 1419123475 767725 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unit of measure i mean < 1419123478 849573 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the wood < 1419123514 894236 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think planck < 1419123519 681345 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeh < 1419123540 3334 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well doesnt it get really hot if you were to compress waves to that point < 1419123631 299927 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where can you find a formula for the amount of energy in a pinhead given temperature < 1419123669 273635 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A pinhead shaped cloud of high-energy subatomic particles < 1419123742 758604 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm equation of state may be the term < 1419123765 573143 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the boltzmann equation relates particle speed to temperature, so combine that with kinetic energy... < 1419123777 270738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh so many < 1419123788 494452 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :both those equations might be wrong at that temperature tho < 1419123904 110122 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old are you oerjan < 1419123906 74632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah i cannot be bothered < 1419123909 457845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: 44 < 1419123936 561043 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well assuming they're not, you do E = T*(3/2)*k_B < 1419123957 336907 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im alot younger than you and pretty much every one here ;-; < 1419123963 951541 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419123964 650384 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am 21 < 1419123980 621361 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 years younger than oren < 1419123984 729898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm probably the oldest regularly talking here... < 1419124003 363572 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1419124023 305091 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there was someone here even older a few years back, he made a cobol-based esolang :P < 1419124045 11878 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp < 1419124067 160073 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have alot to learn < 1419124072 342879 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419124072 563957 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: some regulars here weren't older than you when they joined, so don't panic < 1419124080 12780 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: you have plenty of time to do so < 1419124092 901312 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was 11 :p < 1419124097 390490 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1419124109 208608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how time flies < 1419124127 708779 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old are you now elliott < 1419124130 257464 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :19. < 1419124132 199119 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric ::00 < 1419124166 983576 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well im one day into winter break < 1419124168 769226 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically I might have joined when I was 10, like, once < 1419124176 812223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't say anything < 1419124200 87699 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was 8 years ago < 1419124201 513870 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott is 19 OДO < 1419124213 494833 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006 < 1419124223 602317 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a 19 year old on the internet really that surprising < 1419124229 911044 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric ::^0 < 1419124230 834643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understood the shock when I was 12, but... :p < 1419124237 474608 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made http://esolangs.org/wiki/Itflabtijtslwi i made this when i was 11 < 1419124247 606596 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott a 19 year old who is so much smarter than me is < 1419124254 481656 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i said words twice < 1419124264 362979 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well i joined the internets at the age of 9 and have been ruined ever since < 1419124292 100297 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too... well the trip to japan didn't help < 1419124296 494984 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh the internet is an awful place < 1419124313 657005 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget when I started using the internet but it was before I was 8. < 1419124322 284855 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where awful people are free to spew garbage < 1419124338 232087 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's weird that there are fourteen year olds born in 2000 :/ < 1419124338 548229 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the japanese internet is if anything worse < 1419124344 723635 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could argue about haskell on the internet with someone born in 2000 < 1419124365 631876 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you probably do, from time to time < 1419124370 562364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1419124375 342291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm not in #haskell any more so maybe not really < 1419124375 789399 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at a party last night with someone who was born 2002 < 1419124394 293305 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its weird to talk to people born in the 2000 < 1419124398 207746 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://xkcd.com/386/ <-- yes, awful place indeed. < 1419124408 281368 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1419124426 750686 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my lord < 1419124439 807326 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nys: oh you made that language < 1419124450 788835 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :liking /// at 11 is good taste < 1419124455 134448 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1419124460 122709 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started programming and making silly things at the age of 12 but thats cuz i was all like < 1419124468 790550 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 coding is cool wow < 1419124479 587929 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started at 8 with PHP :( < 1419124487 102349 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric ::0 < 1419124487 548455 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a new idea but i'm not sure it's interesting on its own without an implementation < 1419124490 817772 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started at 9 with PErl 4 < 1419124491 295404 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1419124493 903464 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i started at 12 with qbasic :( < 1419124510 719917 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 is a good age to start code < 1419124541 825740 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qbasic on the other hand isn't a good language to < 1419124557 191374 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is crazier is that some of my cousins satrted having kids at 16-18 < 1419124563 200791 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did all of it secretly though since my schools were filled with bullies who hated smart kids < 1419124564 79500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :qbasic isn't that bad a first language < 1419124585 838043 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was a bully in public school < 1419124601 703970 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-; < 1419124605 638425 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why < 1419124629 653521 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started python at 12 < 1419124630 986198 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked to make fun of people < 1419124637 599054 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1419124644 528140 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he wanted to eliminate all smarter people so he'd be the smartest? < 1419124664 9814 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the smartest if you make people feel bad < 1419124673 626853 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i had anger management issues < 1419124677 940641 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think that's the definition of smart < 1419124682 18445 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dont we all < 1419124703 382743 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik you tend to be less socially compatible if you are too smart < 1419124713 131699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like to write computer games in DOS, then QBASIC is not so bad < 1419124715 28986 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeh < 1419124722 599911 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it turned out everyone else thought I was the one being bullied < 1419124731 712571 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1419124736 350479 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then < 1419124750 266689 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they saw fights and assumed i didn't start them < 1419124759 39561 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :©_© < 1419124764 355397 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419124794 761809 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because i was short! dumb teachers < 1419124799 403729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hadn't realized /// was on the wiki before him < 1419124880 652331 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419124896 678571 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im trying to find a game that was like 2d but made inbetween 2008-2011 and its about a small spaceship that goes on an adventure trying to save the planet from a darkness and this game is like all puzzely i just like the music but Google is very unhelpful < 1419124910 29608 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :/-/ < 1419124915 599834 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anybody know if there is a language in the wiki where programs could be checked? < 1419124928 129779 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1419124929 656268 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked how? < 1419124940 902734 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with CTL for example < 1419124983 869863 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought about writing a modell checker for my language < 1419124994 349681 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if i was the first one with that idea < 1419125007 53532 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Promela deserves to go on the wiki < 1419125016 377764 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1419125212 558618 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not aware of any language in the wiki with CTL as a built in thing < 1419125250 311207 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm not sure if i want to built it into the language itself < 1419125265 901710 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do think writing a modellchecker for it would be easy enough < 1419125268 294046 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's applicable to any language with statefulness imo < 1419125309 55336 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but you have to name your states < 1419125462 728806 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1419125620 541904 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /// is interesting because it is one of those languages that is much more interesting than I suspect the author could have possibly anticipated... < 1419125633 91729 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(compare to brainfuck, which is rather "predictable" in a sense) < 1419125692 958630 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though Brainfuck at least has the excuse it wasn't even intended to be interesting. < 1419125751 144105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, compare the 99bob to your later work...) < 1419125782 212533 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419125813 123466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1419125925 956412 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, /// is very easy to come up with, and it seems like a probably not-that-interesting, sub-TC language idea when you come up with it < 1419125931 820693 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given more work it ends up quite amazing < 1419126198 409471 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// is, in some sense, just a generalisation of thue < 1419127340 591675 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419128866 312618 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419128972 469094 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419129150 332760 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfuck derivatives14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41522&oldid=41517 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+5) 10/* MIBBLLII Isn't brainfuck But Looks Like It Is */ sp, link < 1419129410 401062 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07K-on Fuck14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41523&oldid=41514 5* 03Oerjan 5* (+12) 10/* Example Code */ Use rectwrap class < 1419129593 173991 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if MIBBLLII were my language, i would've called it IIBBLLII < 1419129722 757423 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called MIBBLLII MIBBLLII because MIBBLII isn't brainfuck but looks like it is < 1419129758 230950 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also because I pronounce the acronym "mibbly" and that sounds cute < 1419129796 437406 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Flow chart14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41524&oldid=41520 5* 03Oerjan 5* (-2) 10subsections < 1419129912 590128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: by that principle, it clearly should have been WIBBLII hth < 1419129926 517127 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*WIBBLLII < 1419129968 350125 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps BIBBLLII < 1419129978 272809 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: out of curiosity how old did you expect me to be < 1419130137 391538 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh... maybe 36 at least, given that you seem to be as experienced and knowledgeable as my professors... if you're going to college, you should either major in something other than CS, or be going to like... Yale or something < 1419130205 385950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :36 lol < 1419130211 182936 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :old 'n grumpy < 1419130235 573667 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I dropped out of school a decade ago, actually.) < 1419130289 560200 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dropped out in 4th grade? holy crap < 1419130316 729711 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere around that, I guess (I'm not american) < 1419130363 688170 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well aparently you didn't need it. < 1419130372 907189 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :What bots are in here? < 1419130382 645280 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^prefixes < 1419130385 134771 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1419130389 53020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`prefixes < 1419130395 557959 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, What do they do/are made in < 1419130396 254869 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1419130408 895029 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im guessing those arent in? < 1419130411 398535 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot interprets haskell < 1419130420 484038 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is in, it's just horrendously slow these days < 1419130421 43722 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! < 1419130421 155209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it makes going to university a bit harder when you have no qualifications < 1419130425 975938 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left for mostly non-education-related reasons though < 1419130426 52839 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is made in befunge < 1419130442 96948 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ego? < 1419130446 937195 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does various utility like things < 1419130479 716614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot has a number of esolangs implemented < 1419130521 825207 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :blsqbot interprets burlesque < 1419130526 90520 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :egobot is mostly obsolete these days < 1419130526 651139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1419130528 902304 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1419130530 875567 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 4th grade?! < 1419130552 114092 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo is slightly less slow once it gets up and running < 1419130553 121260 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know your grades! all I know is I was about 10 (I don't remember exactly) < 1419130569 431350 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh 10 < 1419130571 486948 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um < 1419130578 865952 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be 4th or 5th grade < 1419130580 35131 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :6th grade < 1419130593 744626 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also born in August so I was younger than everyone else or something < 1419130597 40778 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't remember < 1419130598 220539 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my district/depending in date of birth < 1419130607 474260 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like i was born in June < 1419130612 750766 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i graduate at 17 < 1419130632 966655 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah so basically you didn't take middle or high school < 1419130642 728052 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our system < 1419130643 563302 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :B-but < 1419130646 936947 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :How < 1419130653 392020 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :In our system < 1419130661 865437 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I dropped out in what we call middle school... < 1419130690 472942 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419130690 950346 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are fined placed on a beka system and if you dont report to school you are fined and either arrested or sentenced to house arrest < 1419130716 911300 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because i basically didn't attend grades 1-6 < 1419130736 197937 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the multitude of tests and state requirement ls and the bills that just destroy education < 1419130744 11467 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is so pressuring on a teen < 1419130765 681489 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it can cause depression and mental illness lack of sleep and disorders < 1419130769 996196 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay America < 1419130787 476309 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf I also spent a while in a children's mental health unit as a teen, there was compulsory schooling there < 1419130815 323430 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419130818 63137 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well these are artificially brought on < 1419130823 566134 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :School days are like this < 1419130831 331667 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419130859 347221 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wake up at 3:00 to 5:00 am go to school till 2:30 pm go to sleep at 10:00 pm < 1419130860 312249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mental illnesses were not brought on by schooling < 1419130864 752379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably. < 1419130865 423206 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start over < 1419130886 468735 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in high school they always told us university was going ot be so hard, but really it is easier < 1419130891 71522 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since most sleep schedules have to be forced because of in out studying < 1419130906 113578 :Farra_000!~Farra_000@cpe-075-183-042-091.triad.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1419130920 190760 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel as if i live in London most of the days because of my weekend sleep schedule < 1419130954 338616 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since its never actually night in London because of it being halfway in the suns light and earths cast shadow < 1419130954 683850 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try my sleep schedules, they're great < 1419130964 702075 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example? < 1419130976 336623 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :my sleep schedule is to sleep 12 hours every two days < 1419130978 283702 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my classic is "sleep for 16 hours every other day" < 1419130982 482547 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1419130989 392101 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not room enough here for both of us, oren < 1419130993 908942 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1419130998 52270 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sleep for < 1419131006 783269 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I just do an oerjan-style "moving forward an hour or a few every day erratically" < 1419131009 787700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1419131012 432271 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me i actually have to write this down < 1419131019 629579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some doomed atetmpts at resetting it with all-nighters and stuff < 1419131049 180365 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was working, i stabilized it as 12 hours every two days < 1419131062 899048 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since i wake up for school at 2 am cuz before school tutoring and my internship thats at 4 am < 1419131066 949525 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is almost impossible to stabilise < 1419131071 284695 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1419131083 691916 :Farra_000!~Farra_000@cpe-075-183-042-091.triad.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1419131084 437065 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I get forced into a normal schedule, I get tireder and tireder every day < 1419131089 288340 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think moving an hour every few days is pretty standard < 1419131089 963544 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep at 9pm wake up at 2am < 1419131092 90784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't sustainable for more than a few days < 1419131097 747204 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that's what I've ended up doing < 1419131100 871038 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im barely alive < 1419131108 563257 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly because I tend to nap in the afternoon < 1419131123 355331 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone turn caffine into an inhaler < 1419131124 874185 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pls < 1419131136 415462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are caffeine pills < 1419131152 471200 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inhaler now! < 1419131160 377581 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i can breath it in < 1419131187 942090 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I toss a caffeine pill into a cup of coffee each morning < 1419131188 664337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The sleepless channel | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1419131199 165143 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1419131204 945191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :caffeine pills make me incredibly shaky and sick < 1419131213 882089 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :modafinil is better, it just makes me a bit sick < 1419131215 642585 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too! but i have to < 1419131235 358937 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz i have to be up for job < 1419131244 451135 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :melatonin is also useful to some degree (but not enough for me) < 1419131251 329535 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'd argue that MIBBLLII isn't really a brainfuck derivative except for syntax < 1419131253 388355 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that happnes when i drink coffe all at once. it is better to have it in small doses every 15 min < 1419131272 330371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect caffeine pills have more in them than a c up of coffee < 1419131275 968830 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supporting your family when you have to go to school is really hard < 1419131286 883655 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION breathes heavily < 1419131297 667155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: personally my main problem with that page is that several of the things there don't have articles. < 1419131314 135641 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im done with life and school < 1419131330 378306 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: coffee can vary in caffiene content massivly depending on how it is made < 1419131339 556570 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know < 1419131345 309917 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hmm yeah < 1419131365 577135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are done with life then how can you write on this IRC? < 1419131366 406270 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sorry, I assumed it was your page because I saw you editing it < 1419131373 876875 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, they said life, not IRC < 1419131382 621205 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is undeath < 1419131394 191274 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you cannot type on the computer if you are dead. < 1419131397 95884 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Braaaainnns... < 1419131398 489609 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope to god I don't have to talk in here in the afterlife < 1419131420 398014 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419131423 296408 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I too hope so; because, it would be too difficult. < 1419131427 973954 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1419131455 148057 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depression fuels typin zzo38 < 1419131463 800566 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typing* < 1419131465 784569 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orreeeen hunnngggrrry for brraaaains!! < 1419131482 794136 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i tend to fix some obvious stuff when i'm looking at recent changes < 1419131513 333335 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419131519 66958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because someone edit it doesn't mean it is their page. Also, just because something is their page doesn't necessarily mean other people are allowed to edit it, too. < 1419131524 682607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dead talk on Extrasensory Relay Chat < 1419131620 327902 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419131710 133172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully when I am dead I will never think about programming ever again < 1419131979 748653 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome oerjan < 1419131983 478776 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08oerjan: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02irc.dal.net.) < 1419132006 213184 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rainbow is still too dark < 1419132007 595312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1419132014 626942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: Are you sure? < 1419132047 380336 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is reincarnated as an ai super computer in the year 7896 on a not earth planet and is forced to program forever < 1419132102 958439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me < 1419132237 17698 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm... would that not be "reinsilicated"? < 1419132253 924644 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that "carn" means "meat" < 1419132284 470195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it wouldn't be "re-" < 1419132311 285476 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the computer is photonic it might be "invitrated" < 1419132311 777324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 's ok just program up some undergrads, it's what all the professors do < 1419132312 762044 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :A coding language based entirely off of bad puns? < 1419132334 70120 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmm < 1419132367 150414 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network socket programming? < 1419132388 585833 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whats the difference between a dirty bus station and a crab with breast implants? < 1419132412 376223 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1419132413 945431 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a television show once that mentioned reincarnation, and about people with memories of stuff that they couldn't have known normally, and scientific test, but it doesn't quite looks like "reincarnation" to me, unless that is what you mean by the word "reincarnation" since otherwise it is too much unclearly? < 1419132416 772418 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "a" difference < 1419132421 115655 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are a lot of them < 1419132431 206006 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :One's a crusty bus station the other is a busty crustation < 1419132443 415669 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :crustacean < 1419132446 606798 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crustac yeah < 1419132449 370144 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know there is a lot of difference someone told me before and it was my answer too there too many difference! < 1419132482 134380 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :reincarnation: a flower for your horse straps < 1419132542 981828 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im 16 and am running off of pure sugar < 1419132750 950543 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :transmigration: a limit per day of the E-isomer soviet jets < 1419133316 705355 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the difference between a rabbit and a gorilla < 1419133325 524066 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rabbits look nothing like gorillas < 1419133378 565663 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1419133463 164720 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419133522 997009 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419133645 322376 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419133651 119203 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419133681 983551 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419134050 154039 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im done < 1419134058 518731 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1419134071 251874 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi dts|pokeball? < 1419134086 805350 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1419134660 415893 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im done with people in general < 1419134707 65786 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :try talking to animals < 1419134714 492340 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, are you done with pokeball in general? I have some pokeball inside of my desk drawer < 1419134725 412205 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah this guy < 1419134727 779669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: I think that is difficult. But, you can try! < 1419134735 973481 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is saying he's a perl hacker < 1419134749 556375 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :And im like, and? < 1419134752 644743 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking to them is easy. getting them to talk mback is hard < 1419134759 192245 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hes getting very angry < 1419134793 821194 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1419134867 732087 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because i use old versions of perl and other things < 1419134874 149837 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :And hes like i can hack you < 1419134880 335613 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well? < 1419134913 766980 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol... "i can haxx0rs j0r compucore d00d" < 1419134944 217019 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: EXTROSPECTIVE CHICKEN < 1419134960 196489 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is keckleon a good pokemon? < 1419134964 803 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeh like that < 1419134993 692561 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some attack may be good against other pokemon, so it depend what attacks you used. < 1419135031 209375 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a lvl 100 shuckle < 1419135060 373874 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started a new game today < 1419135097 84568 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i caught the keklion < 1419135160 917915 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky ducks < 1419135166 392418 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your pokemons < 1419135178 679694 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont have money to spend on games < 1419135285 299635 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bought this game last year < 1419135320 309833 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419135427 513392 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419135497 843365 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm playing it in japanese this time over < 1419135678 723204 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay < 1419135683 92197 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glitches < 1419136593 346363 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419136615 137381 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419136950 853466 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1419137013 177239 :kcm1700_!~kcm1700@175.117.8.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419137122 968721 :kcm1700!~kcm1700@175.117.8.72 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419137141 502332 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1419137637 857056 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419137815 193357 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the first pokemon game in which you have anything resemblinga girlfriend. < 1419137839 673255 :Guest31893!~shikhin@59.177.201.122 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419138315 930124 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :caught a kabigon (snorelax) < 1419138378 466810 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419138428 555769 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419140683 733338 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :How small can you make a number < 1419140691 120765 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuz i wanna break some stufg < 1419140695 603482 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff* < 1419140718 865577 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very < 1419140728 459799 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example < 1419140746 621064 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e8888888888888888888888888888 is pretty small < 1419140750 711782 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1419140759 273818 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not small enough for me < 1419140792 788905 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "-1" ++ repeat '0' < 1419140794 140447 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "-10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000... < 1419140806 187244 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small enough? < 1419140832 1779 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh < 1419140835 414195 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see < 1419140842 323740 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1419140859 844450 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, because that is so small it isn't actually a number < 1419140869 418656 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1419140872 959863 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its a thing < 1419140873 904309 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the limit of a divergent function < 1419140897 295568 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old are you taneb < 1419140901 171513 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 < 1419140916 217650 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :©_© < 1419140958 270883 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1419141002 541138 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you need a very small number < 1419141075 438765 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419141087 250478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace: 1/Ackermann(5,5) hth < 1419141113 672921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1419141132 861940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Ackermann(5,5) < 1419141134 433725 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think Solace wants a low number rather than a small one < 1419141167 161520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-G_64 < 1419141175 471149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :-BB(G_64) < 1419141182 647611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1419141552 881187 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419143313 590325 :Stormzy!~storms@154.123.7.77 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419143332 17184 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swiggity swineral much crave such mineral < 1419143359 897933 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solace, you realise that very few people in this channel are going to even have a clue what that joke is about? < 1419143368 336589 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ofc < 1419143381 494671 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what its about? < 1419143383 988411 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's a joke that requires heaps of context to even make sense < 1419143389 323905 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it happens, yes < 1419143403 87721 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i rarely bother to look things up < 1419143411 530833 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mountain goats go up a 90° slope to get salt < 1419143415 991368 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a mountain < 1419143434 767532 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idk how its a meme < 1419143883 955931 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the largest number is 1.79769313486232 time ten to the 308. < 1419143959 414777 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most negtive number is negative that < 1419143970 728061 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was 40 million plus 1 < 1419143983 543424 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, those two numbers are actually equal < 1419144014 254367 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy solstice day everyone < 1419144027 893739 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419144036 360697 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You too < 1419144045 748916 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means this is the longest night of the year < 1419144051 261319 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not where I am! < 1419144099 129811 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419144149 702519 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :solstice occurs late GMT, so that means that most places will have tomorrow night be longer < 1419144165 318906 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember to sing your solstice carols < 1419144216 886353 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :deck the halls with bows of hally falalalalalalalalala < 1419144234 346891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh you're in australia now? < 1419144257 796074 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely recalls you passing through hong kong < 1419144354 20566 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: that's a christmas carol. common mistake. < 1419144367 977093 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQ8bcDaMaI < 1419144377 74888 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkkogoiiqnynzeit QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419144399 737607 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know any solstice carols. the sta. lucia song is close if you squint anachronistically in two ways simultaneously < 1419144408 829412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly three < 1419144463 124303 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(st. lucy's day is on dec. 13, which _used_ to be solstice under the julian calendar - but the change to gregorian happened _before_ the swedes stole the song from the italians) < 1419144528 559283 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jingle bells, Batman smells, Robin laid an egg! < 1419144540 92191 :incomprehensibly!sid3405@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bhntnxbrclkzmspk JOIN :#esoteric < 1419144593 454436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: thx now i know one tdh < 1419144649 486245 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recall's irregular webcomic's old christmas carols < 1419144652 182115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-' < 1419144674 19799 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, until tomorrow morning < 1419144710 508291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the italian song isn't a carol, or religious at all) < 1419144718 114295 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy to the world, the teacher's dead, we bbqed her head! < 1419144759 382528 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419144847 395048 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pettition to rename planet "punishment orb" < 1419144907 481396 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna go spend time with family and drink England water < 1419144915 433149 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats what i call tea < 1419144956 154077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strafenkugel < 1419144979 663122 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1419145022 775932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's punishment orb, except in german, so sounds better < 1419145042 552746 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not quite sure about the -en- < 1419145173 217413 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :罰球- batsukyuu=punishment orb in japanese < 1419145280 579290 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it would shorten to bakkyuu? < 1419145326 497146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm googling i found Strafenkugel in a long word list, but otoh i found Strafkugel on a site with "bondage" in the title < 1419145380 240874 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://docs.spring.io/spring-framework/docs/2.5.x/api/org/springframework/aop/framework/AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.html < 1419145400 376069 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD WHY < 1419145404 260645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok the latter has many more hits (still just 134) < 1419145469 282873 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: because enterprise hth < 1419145474 300845 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently 罰球 is a chinese word meaning a free throw or free kick < 1419145537 543471 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it used in football? < 1419145546 98885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(soccer) < 1419145548 810941 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in basketball and football. < 1419145563 984729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two different kinds of kick in soccer though < 1419145594 170063 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419145615 178292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh possibly three < 1419145628 586601 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :direct free kick, indirect free kick, and penalty kick < 1419145650 726954 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the chinese wikipedia article describes this and has articles on each one < 1419145681 113956 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my chinese is very very bad...) < 1419145683 767456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1419145689 38132 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419145733 836210 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just learned today that the new chinese president, or was it premier, is a soccer fan and wants china to stop being ridiculously bad at it < 1419145750 975961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're 88th place on the ranking, behind e.g. norway and tiny iceland) < 1419145786 168861 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i guess it's yesterday by now < 1419145829 579028 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean considered bad < 1419145972 78829 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.232.200 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419145977 638546 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the factory, singleton, and proxy patterns are by themselves bad things created by a bad language < 1419145987 338943 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.232.200 QUIT :Changing host < 1419145987 382147 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419146004 474692 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :k/win 6 < 1419146032 822802 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the hp lovecraft historical society has two albums of them, and they're mostly fantastic < 1419146067 264454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but some are real right? < 1419146093 351850 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they are all just re-lyriced christmas carols < 1419146101 119495 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually to the same tune, with one notable and wonderful exception < 1419146110 748705 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :death to the world is joy to the world, but transposed into minor key < 1419146119 387775 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptP0OR-e7rI < 1419146121 871295 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty amazing < 1419146546 556895 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419146987 358813 :Stormzy!~storms@154.123.7.77 PART :#esoteric < 1419147827 830209 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.52 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1419147963 191937 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419148132 312747 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbk5xdG8V4g < 1419148176 524382 :dts|pokeball!~DTSCode@unaffiliated/dtscode JOIN :#esoteric < 1419150823 199829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nite < 1419150959 974444 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=773619 < 1419150981 670286 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ever like a song, and then find out the lyrics and they are kind of worrying? < 1419151056 539377 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_ARcane: yeah it should just display the half-loaded page. fail. < 1419151095 765531 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: indeed. It's a bizarre approach. I haven't seen loading behavior like that in years. < 1419151132 976051 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway this song is worrying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy2-B3D0cvU < 1419151183 190430 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lyrics start at 30 seconds in) < 1419151260 14059 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I built a spreadsheet program, but i haven't added formulas in. what kind of formula syntax would be better than excel's? < 1419151509 270698 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking that formulae will not be attached to any particular cell, but rather to the page < 1419151579 864761 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then act on the page as "constraints" that are truified each time the spreadsheet is modified < 1419151662 199512 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is "truify" a word? it should be one) < 1419151918 395441 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for example ``[0,0] = [1,0]+[2,0]" will ensure that the equation between those three cells holds true when any of them is modified < 1419151934 86018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be a good idea < 1419151956 211741 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in some cases it would become ambiguous < 1419151984 882960 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so long as we have some arbitrary rules for biguation < 1419152056 860322 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, disallow adding a formula that isn't true right now < 1419152099 589037 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that would not solve all of it < 1419152101 906699 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oren: In that case at least, what you can do is that if that rule is defined when [0,0] is empty, fill in that cell when the rule is defined < 1419152123 894948 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only for rules of that particular form and only in those cases < 1419152128 227667 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have a special empty type already < 1419152138 2018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing that would help is to be able to define ranges, such as data belongs in this series of rows, and/or columns, and then if you insert rows/columns it expands the range. < 1419152217 834384 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is example of a spreadsheet: http://snag.gy/HdVDO.jpg < 1419152524 105693 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://boingboing.net/2014/12/19/usbdriveby-horrifying-proof-o.html < 1419152693 200389 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_arcane that is pretty horrifying < 1419152739 839863 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reason to lock your computer when you get up to go tothe bathroom < 1419152825 144653 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is also something I have thought of many years ago and is one thing I hate about USB. < 1419152862 75290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, there are also ways to fix a system to avoid this problem, such as you can fix Linux. < 1419152955 918791 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't trust anyone to use your computer whom you don't trust implicitly < 1419153095 21771 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physical access. < 1419153521 273656 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419154315 484672 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uxkgbgmpihcwsxev QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419154354 180854 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419155253 440860 :adu!~ajr@c-69-243-56-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1419156544 628876 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :About physical access it is still true you should not let them to touch your computer; with physical access you can damage stuff. < 1419156603 488742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, even if someone give to you and you connect it to your computer, then it can cause this problem with USB. < 1419156763 79029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is just one of many problems with USB in general. < 1419157148 930687 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419157438 724230 :InvalidC1!invalidco@makkara.org NICK :InvalidCo < 1419157810 54395 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps instead of defining exact constraints, we define statements of dependent action < 1419157858 483273 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. x<-x+N=>y<-y+N < 1419157887 390010 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means when x changes by N, y changes by the same amount < 1419158086 677307 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, but then there are loops. we can resolve this by allowing only one rule mentioning any pair of cells < 1419158132 862697 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allowing <=> as well as => < 1419158408 850331 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qwmcplxqzrhjutdt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419159385 221771 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No that doesn't help. constraints need to be in a strict tree to avoid loops < 1419159440 125495 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :following => from any cell should get a tree with no duplicate nodes < 1419159610 839518 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i think that will work < 1419159742 962758 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419159865 708759 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419160337 556272 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Changing host < 1419160337 641123 :roasted42!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419160337 682705 :roasted42!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 NICK :TheM4ch1n3 < 1419160657 121333 :oren!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca NICK :|oren\ < 1419161467 284596 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1419161574 638124 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1419161707 955037 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1419162125 785029 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :blargh. I am thus far not finding Scribble nearly as friendly as advertised ... < 1419162160 10596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not friendlyi < 1419162246 33440 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like a hell of a lot of weird syntax to learn when I could just be writing in Markdown or LyX like I usually would ... < 1419162327 149838 :TheM4ch1n3!~appleseed@unaffiliated/them4ch1n3 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419162327 854544 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419163166 385859 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1419164764 854597 :shikhout!~shikhin@59.177.207.192 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419164786 806947 :shikhout!~shikhin@59.177.207.192 NICK :Guest66634 < 1419164927 80584 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419165277 74357 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419165451 834263 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419165703 464761 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am implementing greek mode for TTML, based partly on this image of the original space cadet keyboard layout: http://home.comcast.net/~mmcm/kbd/SpaceCadet3.jpeg < 1419166114 564834 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :also from that image i now know where vi's bizarre ghjk arrows come from < 1419166137 49554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: what... < 1419166158 951488 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what what? < 1419166177 29742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi has hjkl arrows, and they have no relation to APL keyboard layouts < 1419166226 53639 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjkl was simply invented because it's four convenient neighbouring keys < 1419166242 246449 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41525&oldid=41505 5* 0394.225.138.121 5* (+1017) 10/* Looks Like */ "Soviet Script" and "In Soviet Russia" merge YOU!!! < 1419166301 578825 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see... well i don't use vi so i just knew it had some crazy layout... anyway why not ijkl? < 1419166338 119288 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has the advantage that they are in the right configuration and all in a row in ASCII < 1419166349 410211 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila JOIN :#esoteric < 1419166355 266911 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: as for that APL layout, it seems to be similar to the third image in http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/kybint.htm , which by the way you may want to consult if you want to see more crazy keyboard layouts < 1419166410 873307 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: it's not ijkl because it's more difficult to reach i than j and k, especially if you also want to press l soon after, and also, i is the perfect mnemonic for "insert", the most important command in vi < 1419166422 808710 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, because of history < 1419166442 601288 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course i is also the best mnemoic for "inventory" < 1419166492 289443 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: just in case it's not clear, those arrows on that keyboard layout are printable symbols < 1419166520 625175 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically in APL, the left arrow stands for assignment (same as in smalltalk), the right arrow stands for goto, the up and down arrow stand for take and drop respectively < 1419166668 26495 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway v is an interesting choice for the ending sigma. i would have put it on c... < 1419166739 721116 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i would put nu on v, and eta on n < 1419166781 389412 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the greek letters look sort of like their corresponding latin letters. < 1419166833 791770 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to have gone with a pronounciation based layout instead < 1419166865 226283 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder which is actually the best choice < 1419167039 636663 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419167141 125092 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419167351 822842 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and i am also rerying my idea for a language with its own non-ascii-based, entirely original code page < 1419167396 412249 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what if you could change latin to greek by flipping one bit? < 1419167427 310381 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then change to cyrillic by flipping another one < 1419167940 116885 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have seen that "hjkl" is due to some keyboard having those arrows on those letters (which they put there for the purpose of inventing vi)? Apparently also the escape was where the modern keyboard has a tab key? I don't know for sure. < 1419168010 542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, also their order is same as in Dance Dance Revolution and related games, I have noticed. If you play using a keyboard you might want to use "hjkl" if possible; same as vi even. < 1419168374 529237 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that suddenly made me interesting, DDR indeed uses the same order as vim's (and many others). < 1419168410 486953 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other combinations don't make much sense, but the choice between hjkl and hkjl seems not that arbitrary, with a strong preference to hjkl < 1419169066 305385 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: on the PC XT keyboard, escape is of course to the left of the 1, but vi is older than that < 1419169382 593317 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419169721 184700 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419169779 369138 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419169895 231761 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1419171144 940592 :Guest66634!~shikhin@59.177.207.192 NICK :shikhin < 1419171150 661482 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.207.192 QUIT :Changing host < 1419171150 704957 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419172158 92721 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419172197 291111 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesss... i will make a language with an alternate-universe code page < 1419172279 33034 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419172357 114653 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1419172677 61711 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.46 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1419173307 381803 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes documentation. < 1419174168 475995 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of all the things about Lisp, this is one that still strikes me as largely unnecessary: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/547436/whats-the-difference-between-eq-eql-equal-and-equalp-in-common-lisp < 1419174192 374209 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :EQ is important for a fast pointer equality check < 1419174204 970452 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :EQUAL is important to test equality of values < 1419174234 472177 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :eql and equalp seem stupid < 1419174281 32461 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme having like ten equality procedures is annoying < 1419174287 159955 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the pointless type-specific ones < 1419174308 132051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really want pointer equality in a language with mutability though < 1419174315 47148 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the hell do i type an å < 1419174318 529806 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you're kind of screwed in terms of handling cyclic lists without it < 1419174357 135372 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutability as default sucks tho < 1419174365 971961 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say as default < 1419174373 311890 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutability does not suck < 1419174384 867257 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have mutability at all you need to be able to compare identifies of any object that acts as a mutable reference < 1419174423 17001 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true but any high level language should have mutability as like an advanced feature, not a basic one < 1419174454 221279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay well... that doesn't make sense since you can't really add mutability after the fact like that < 1419174459 503477 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're talking about like... State or whatever < 1419174463 241628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's also irrelevant to the point < 1419174473 583345 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Haskell's Staet < 1419174474 959956 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_program_theorem this is low quality < 1419174476 485380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spelling < 1419174479 747300 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :The structured program theorem is a theory in programming and computer science < 1419174484 236279 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a theorem, not a 'theory' < 1419174545 993728 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was annoyed by the fact that the pointer equality is the shortest one. t should have a longer name and regular equality shoulf have a short one < 1419174557 557760 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's shorter because it's faster < 1419174564 269678 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier for the computer to process shorter names < 1419174564 312941 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\, it's not important to huffman code variable names < 1419174577 198628 :mitchs!~canissimi@unaffiliated/canissimia JOIN :#esoteric < 1419174579 362557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I disagree :p < 1419174582 707541 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of disagree < 1419174601 175424 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :eq is O(2) because it has two letters < 1419174607 925673 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas equal is O(n) because it has more letters than I can count < 1419174612 523689 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the short variable names like x,i,etc should always be the localist var names < 1419174615 426758 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore eq is faster < 1419174623 7859 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :*est < 1419174642 174925 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :call-with-current-continuation is O(n^4) because there's four words < 1419174643 50182 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone help me about structured programming theorem? < 1419174803 812505 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? doesn't it just say all you need to be turing complete is if and loops? < 1419174835 703758 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a claim that you need goto or labelled break/continue - otherwise programs can be made which are hard to turn into structured programs < 1419174838 622827 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those programs? < 1419174854 18466 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kosaraju proved that a strict hierarchy of programs exists, nowadays called the Kosaraju hierarchy, in that for every integer n, there exists a program containing a multi-level break of depth n that cannot be rewritten as program with multi-level breaks of depth less than n < 1419174893 932865 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't have anything but eq? defined in Heresy. < 1419174917 164932 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any break can be replaced with an extra variable < 1419174973 548496 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I need to read Sambasiva Rao Kosaraju paper < 1419175007 673439 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=804055 oh cool it's on ACM, only $15 < 1419175012 955839 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't science great! < 1419175122 106069 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do the programs on the Kosaraju hierarchy look like? < 1419175363 278957 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found an graph of the heirerarchy but not what the programs on it look like < 1419175391 735207 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had thought that this structured programming stuff might make me think goto had some uses but it doesn't < 1419175619 614825 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto has uses, it just isn't good when overused. any goto can be replaced with a boolean var and some extra conditions, < 1419175657 572290 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this practice is generally more confusing than if you had just used a goto with a descriptive label < 1419176261 486404 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://soclab.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~soclab/course/Milestones_in_SW_Evolution/2-2-CACM-Nov-1975-p629-ledgard.pdf] < 1419176262 446089 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://soclab.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~soclab/course/Milestones_in_SW_Evolution/2-2-CACM-Nov-1975-p629-ledgard.pdf < 1419176263 819179 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda fun < 1419176267 431052 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :all kinds of control structures < 1419176451 116476 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha. so kosaraju's hierarchy apparently shows when you have to have a new boolean variable < 1419176862 657485 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the argument against knuth's use of goto on page 638 i find vacouous, because call is practically a goto, it simply provides a mechanism to goto back. < 1419176888 963302 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in imperative languages that is) < 1419176909 517866 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.14.537 lol < 1419176941 811994 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :call? < 1419176943 603582 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1419176949 632289 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedure cal? < 1419176960 36139 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that < 1419176976 622465 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not goto < 1419176998 374678 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a goto followed by a complex assigned goto < 1419177016 261254 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419177020 554459 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :return is a goto assigned by the caller < 1419177076 409373 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BASIC calling a procedure is done with GOSUB command < 1419177208 152938 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, procedure call was not among the control structures listed in the article < 1419177224 412909 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\, if you only use sequencing, if/then/else while and procedure calls then each part of the program can be understood on its own piece by piece. When you use goto that is lost < 1419177337 27221 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is true... when goto is used as in was in the 1970's < 1419177349 611139 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedure calls may be implemented in terms of jumps but they are done in such a way that this property is preserved < 1419177359 718752 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when goto is used wisely it pervents confusion < 1419177378 291542 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am skptical of that < 1419177413 976093 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you rather keep track of how many nested loops use a boolean or simply ^F for the goto label < 1419177446 247595 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know, this has never come up in my programming < 1419177614 249272 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multiple nested loops that you have to break out of have never come up? < 1419177636 523272 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto < 1419177724 732911 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well consider the following problem then: search a list of strings for a word, and either print the first sentence in which it appears or print "Does not appear." if you do not find one. < 1419177786 674669 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maintain that the simplest, least confusing algorithm for this uses a goto or return from the innermost loop on success. < 1419177939 460185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let search _ [] = "Does not appear."; search w (s:ss) | w `isInfixOf` s = s | otherwise = search w ss in text $ search "hello" ["q", "the hello world", "r"] < 1419177940 684444 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : the hello world < 1419177944 117116 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay let me try < 1419177975 201147 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was talking about imperative languages of course... lol < 1419177989 754524 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let search = fromMaybe "Does not appear" . find . isInfixOf in text $ search "hello" ["q", "the hello world", "r"] < 1419177990 979588 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘[[GHC.Types.Char]] < 1419177991 93898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : -> GHC.Base.String’ < 1419177991 136929 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’Couldn't match type ‘[[a]] ->... < 1419177992 983926 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1419178001 140950 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let search w = fromMaybe "Does not appear" . find (w `isInfixOf`) in text $ search "hello" ["q", "the hello world", "r"] < 1419178002 412501 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : the hello world < 1419178026 960782 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: but I like writing haskell code < 1419178030 843033 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I like writing haskell one-liners < 1419178083 31248 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :find_word_index() { for(i = 0; i < length; i++) { if(contains_word(word, sentence[i])) { return i; } } return -1 } < 1419178083 157720 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :program() { i = find_word_index(); if(i != -1) { print(sentence[i]); } else { print("Not found"); } } < 1419178121 612605 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: to be fair, return breaks the same invariants as break < 1419178125 158576 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a return from the innermost loop, as i said. < 1419178138 260191 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which isn't as bad as a goto, but dijkstra still isn't happy) < 1419178146 282671 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\, okay, but this isnt' goto < 1419178154 891264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since you can't do the same proof about the contract of the loop) < 1419178185 881864 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what's that? < 1419178189 778550 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: http://blog.plover.com/prog/Hoare-logic.html < 1419178197 902576 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains why dijkstra doesn't like goto/break < 1419178210 444861 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I never read anything by Dijkstra that wasn't noticeably out of touch with the reality of programming" <- lol < 1419178216 195058 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah he never even coded < 1419178235 486755 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the argument there applies to returning from a loop too since that's basically a break) < 1419178237 707318 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in structured programming the general assumption is that every procedure exits at the end < 1419178282 209200 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they even have procedures, which or example brainfuck doesn't < 1419178300 213121 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is why brainfuck is so hard and awful to program in < 1419178311 135859 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_program_theorem even links to P'' < 1419178313 480445 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: so in this sense break/return is not nearly as bad as goto but it is still a concession away from structured programming < 1419178315 339745 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :The construction was based on Böhm's programming language P′′. < 1419178317 699974 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419178347 200874 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can prove less using the structure, you cannot entirely understand each part of the program on its own like you said < 1419178410 844731 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it reduces the compositionality of your hoare logic) < 1419178431 824827 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, that makes sense to me < 1419178480 918828 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think omitting break and continue will make it easier to prove programs correct < 1419178505 537528 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it does (but it might make the programs harder to write in the first place) < 1419178512 839010 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the same applies to goto, arguably) < 1419178513 289303 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419178547 548545 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :find_word_index() { found = None; for (i = 0; i < length && found.isNone(); i++) { found = search_sentence(sentence[i], word); } return found; } < 1419178551 22120 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ I think this isn't so bad < 1419178564 37014 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming a None/Some maybe type) < 1419178633 651216 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be written recursively instead of for loop < 1419178636 195462 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course { result = None; for (i = 0; i < length && result.isNone(); i++) { result = f(list[i]); } return result; } is precisely Haskell's find :p < 1419178650 903771 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*p(list[i]); < 1419178750 584411 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :procedural programming languages of the era such as Fortran 66, often didn't allow recursion. < 1419178761 867266 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you need scheme to write this recursively < 1419178789 680110 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :algol did! < 1419178820 99504 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a book that my dad studied programming from. the examples are in fortran 66 and PL/I. might as well be greek and sanscrit. < 1419178844 946282 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's not fair < 1419178860 553476 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL/I is pretty readable if you know C < 1419178908 727750 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah but i dunno how many people actually used algol. < 1419179075 864405 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was certainly relevant to people like dijkstra and knuth! < 1419179104 358047 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :dijkstra implemented the algol compiler < 1419179110 706776 :Prax!~praxitek@static-50-53-123-57.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419179112 462413 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :algol 68 is kind of incredible, it's like a language from the future but also the most 60s thing ever < 1419179122 659939 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1419179127 552656 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also kind of a total mess? < 1419179152 343848 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :algol is to blame for bash's god-awful "esac" stuff < 1419179155 397786 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can never forgive it < 1419179383 731365 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments with a weird slashed c which i've never even seen < 1419179403 985633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've never seen a cent sign? < 1419179410 209488 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't you american < 1419179427 803272 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cent sign is a c with a vertical line. I'm from Canada < 1419179439 596625 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have actually looked more like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68#Example_of_different_program_representations < 1419179454 195816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :¢ is a cent sign (and the comment character used there) < 1419179490 219956 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a c with a vertical line < 1419179519 327732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the character there < 1419179531 610439 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I copied and pasted it. < 1419179535 80110 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on < 1419179547 545643 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think algol 68 actually has "semantic bolding" < 1419179552 458972 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can name variables after keywords < 1419179555 701841 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because keywords are all bolded. < 1419179561 673335 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. that is kinda nuts < 1419179577 265311 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doable today because of the math extensions to unicode < 1419179580 249864 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, and names with spaces in them I guess < 1419179585 664927 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the future < 1419179600 165036 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can also be underlined. < 1419179632 586212 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keywords or the names < 1419179655 352453 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember which way around, I just remember underlining to differentiate was also a thing. < 1419179658 265115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easier than bold when writing by hand. < 1419179669 320981 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snag.gy/Sc1dX.jpg <-- it might be a vagary of the font < 1419179725 33899 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it is. me and my stupid japanese fonts < 1419179737 472726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the screwiest font possible for "font-family: monospace, Courier". < 1419179778 372565 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiyucho Bold < 1419179830 19026 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a cute monospaced font < 1419179844 150392 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bug report your title bar fonts are too normal < 1419179872 474527 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll see what i can do about that < 1419179877 938379 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: did you deliberately plant that video that looks like it might be "Disney Furry" or something < 1419179905 424871 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No i was listening to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYccun6GkDI < 1419179906 643775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :JPEG has not been kind to that red text. < 1419179938 793644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's Eur, not Fur < 1419179962 648276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :very glad Disney Eurobeat CD 1 is a thing that exists, especially in how it implies the existence of future Disney Eurobeat CDs < 1419179966 320924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of further < 1419179974 325048 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 3 that i know of < 1419180018 903784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :scientists may yet discover more < 1419180021 854778 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are actually made by real eurobeat artists < 1419180185 891275 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.53 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419180187 80163 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow, you're right, it's all blotchy. < 1419180232 21009 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know why Y'CbCr hurts red so much. < 1419180240 667697 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably something to do with fiddly human optics things. < 1419180248 167267 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's weird. < 1419180261 78316 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the periodic table of eurobeat CDs suggests that there are eight theoretically possible disney eurobeat CDs < 1419180281 741089 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the remaining ones can only be observed for brief moments under laboratory conditions < 1419180336 496878 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :he lives in you, he lives in me, he watches over, everything we see... into the water. into the truth. in your reflection. he lives in you. < 1419180337 720200 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nys: don't forget the "transition eurobeat CDs", which are compilations of partly disney, partly other eurobeat tracks < 1419180370 371941 :nys!~nysnamovo@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee < 1419180544 508747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaporwave was long hypothesised to exist but only recently created in laboratories < 1419180660 448893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't remember too much about the JPEG details. Maybe it's because the red and grey parts have more-or-less identical Y' values, so they're differentiated only by the color channels, and those are (often) downsampled. The other text also has the shape in the full-resolution luminance information. < 1419180686 137041 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: blue text generally fares better, I think < 1419180701 132970 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can see this in regular videos, too -- red stuff with edges just looks bad compared to everything else < 1419180707 90668 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always smudgier < 1419180834 225708 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1009.html dijkstra on goto again -- my version of that word search program is recognisable in the bounded linear search theorem here < 1419180856 33954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's weird is that if I wget the image, what I get is a PNG file with a .jpg extension. < 1419180924 645121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :((0) and (1) are perfect examples of how much of an annoying dick he was, too :p) < 1419180934 31650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, (0) especially) < 1419180945 104469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But it's still clearly been compressed with something very JPEGy (you can see the 8x8 blocks and the typical DCT artefacts) at some point of its history.) < 1419180961 424772 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) Rubin still starts indexing the rows and the columns at 1. I thought that by now professional programmers knew how much more preferable it is to let the natural numbers start at 0. I shall start indexing at 0. < 1419180962 655526 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1419181014 533696 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) rubin smells and is bad at programming < 1419181028 322686 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1419181090 920084 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd10xx/EWD1009.PDF his handwriting was so great < 1419181131 257295 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like he ran a typesetting program in his head < 1419181160 188088 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hell is bing now better than google < 1419181186 765653 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess because microsoft isn't taking everything down < 1419181212 337407 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it interesting that |oren\'s suggested goto-using problem was very comparable to the one posed back in 1968 < 1419181244 90449 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applying the above theorem twice yields for Rubin’s problem < 1419181245 569536 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean < 1419181247 310893 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applying the above theorem twice yields for Rubin’s program < 1419181290 179109 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a brutal takedown < 1419181295 948819 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just derived the program like that < 1419181342 827579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means for Rubin's problem < 1419181353 42579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubin stated a problem to defend the use of goto, Dijkstra derived a solution for it < 1419181358 597564 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://joshuah.scripts.mit.edu/blog/?p=195 < 1419181377 595983 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :python doesn't have GOTO???? < 1419181397 809081 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1419181410 712456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dijkstra's solution is basically just nesting (search p n = go 0 where go m | m == n = Nothing | p m = Just m | otherwise = go (m + 1)) < 1419181486 399543 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only his pseudocode had included abstraction over control structures so he could have written (search (\i -> not (search (\j -> x!(i,j) == 0) n)) n) :p < 1419181490 918282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419181508 207567 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh that might need another ) in there somewhere < 1419181757 302976 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i am just going to swith my default serch to bing. google is officially over. < 1419181811 889013 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't duckduckgo be more your thing < 1419181860 813640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same results after all < 1419181871 490371 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my interaction with duckduckgo consists of appending !g to every query because the ddg/bing results are useless) < 1419181902 46877 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in two cases today the top result on bing was what i wanted and google did not even list it < 1419181938 173546 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so google is over. it's just... over. I'm breaking up with google < 1419181952 502695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, not actually the exact same results) < 1419181965 818768 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I guess ddg have started doing their own crawling too now) < 1419181987 744555 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried to use the search engine made by the guy who wrote the elk cloner? < 1419181990 636585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ddg take results from yandex quite a bit, IIRC < 1419182005 327806 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they use the ais523 method of searching quite a bit (i.e. know in advance what website to look on) < 1419182025 158275 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if there's a Wikipedia article about your search term, and it has an official website link, they'll use that (possibly with checks to ensure it hasn't been edited recently, although I doubt it) < 1419182031 891240 :S1!~S1@p4FF92995.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1419182041 192136 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: blekko? no but I think ddg uses it or something < 1419182052 132628 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the results it has in the top bar < 1419182728 762888 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway from my point of view it is completely unacceptable for google to refuse a Canadian access to links to a Russian website based on a law that only exists in America. < 1419182764 285128 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's completely unacceptable for google to follow laws in the country their servers are in < 1419182769 488750 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they don't get seized < 1419182773 366751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking weird imo < 1419182785 179614 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost like google is an american corporation or something < 1419182790 864279 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has to follow american laws < 1419182803 274490 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :well microsoft lists the russian websites < 1419182820 829201 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody cares about bing enough to send DMCA notices to them < 1419182826 380530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they also have to follow the laws in the country their headquarters are in < 1419182828 916209 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like me to? < 1419182829 927936 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google should change the law. < 1419182832 386699 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft got in trouble over this recently < 1419182847 552623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by refusing to give US law enforcement information on servers they controlled outside the US < 1419182856 257610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how the story ended or if it has yet < 1419182866 253561 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is completely correct in my view < 1419182882 229258 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\ is probably accessing US servers < 1419182889 545291 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I don't know google to have any servers in canada < 1419182907 177289 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cold here they could save on cooling < 1419182919 546900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbf Google probably have servers everywhere < 1419182929 372474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to reduce latency < 1419182941 4314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: do you think it's absurd that corporations in the US can't sell cocaine to people who live in countries where it's legal because selling cocaine is illegal in the US (let's ignore laws on possession, and the pointlessness of the war on drugs) < 1419182993 330194 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think that's a given... for something like google search, investing in making huge data centeres everywhere doesn't make much sense < 1419183002 216837 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to picking a few hotspots for it < 1419183006 508442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*centres < 1419183027 130821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think either method is necessarily going to be the better one on the information we have < 1419183044 879512 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we know about amazon's data centre distribution < 1419183070 119007 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the issue is that the US tries to apply its laws elsewhere, to the point of for example an american corporation seized an argintinean navy ship. < 1419183072 429019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, that's weird, I just did "dig google.com" and a whois on the resulting address < 1419183077 435930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was registered to YouTube < 1419183079 647674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/11/14/rare-peek-massive-scale-aws/ goes into some detail) < 1419183087 604345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google owns YouTube, but I think of YouTube as being part of Google rather than the other way round < 1419183096 130851 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: ok, but this has nothing to do with not giving you links that they are required by US law not to give you :P < 1419183154 755302 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO censoring information by censoring links to it doesn't really work anyway < 1419183200 452270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :|oren\: you'd have better luck with a canadian or russian search engine, really < 1419183212 177466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then neither would have a sensible reason to deny access to the links, assuming they're legal in both canada and russia < 1419183298 868266 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't google.CA enough? apparently not. anyway i have been known to use baidu < 1419183304 252559 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks hard to censor information off the web < 1419183311 602405 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hard < 1419183314 878767 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the thing is, for the guys who have done this well - we do not know about it < 1419183327 768900 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :although we hear a lot about china, I thinkt hey have a very successful set of methods < 1419183357 263514 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly the social part, getting lower level web admins to help self-censor things so that they can continue to run their site without trouble) < 1419183373 519264 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course DPI and blocking a lot of things too < 1419183417 895422 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course to use baidu properly you need to write in chinese (which is pretty much beyond my capabilities still) < 1419183452 454215 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i use a translator < 1419183527 324360 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: china do some fancy things with tor -- they actually talk the tor protocol to IPs to check whether they're tor relays < 1419183536 321421 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, maybe not relays. I forget the exact tor terminology. they use this for blocking tor, anyway < 1419183565 122990 :MM_!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419183595 734856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "exit node" and "middle node" is the main Tor terminology, I think < 1419183610 653933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :middle nodes are the ones you bounce off, exit nodes are where the traffic reaches the open internet < 1419183613 453559 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :really i think a lot of the web is simply hidden by linguistic barriers < 1419183623 517306 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive hard them called relays < 1419183626 616812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with everything but the source address unencrypted) < 1419183631 832963 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I forget what a relay is though < 1419183632 774829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"relay" is a pretty decently descriptive term, though < 1419183633 665695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a middle node < 1419183649 692685 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never used tor or even bothered to read bout it < 1419183693 786441 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it, but I'm aware of it < 1419183698 136712 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure china get much out of their internet censorship other than economically (cf. there being chinese versions of every internet thing) < 1419183704 216438 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be the whole point? < 1419183712 479787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pretty much have to be if you've ever needed to chase someone < 1419183721 188418 :MM_!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1419183721 685949 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well apparently, the main purpose is to stop people arranging public gatherings < 1419183724 215402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one in Hong Kong < 1419183728 402395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one still going, incidentally? < 1419183730 82030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks it up < 1419183736 603445 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah they broke it up < 1419183747 219229 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read on Xinhua about that < 1419183753 459641 :n00b7489!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1419183771 613769 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION regularly reads Xinhua, RT, BBC, and Fox News < 1419184044 189079 :hjulle!~hjulle@ankadagen.vth.sgsnet.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1419184164 989092 :n00b7489!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming a programming language doesn't have variable names or even memory addresses, but rather just a stack to push data on the top and retrieve then discard from the top, < 1419184389 378829 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pushdown automaton < 1419184402 301650 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not TC < 1419184419 521165 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I hope I just psychically answered your question :p < 1419184471 669959 :n00b7489!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't even have built-in multiply and divide, greater and less than, or any other advanced operations of any level built in, rather just the simple addition and subtraction of the top two values, and simple flow control by whether the top value is or isn't 0, < 1419184502 886184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n00b7489: it can't be TC unless you have another data structure somewhere (another stack will do; sometimes you can use the call stack for that purpose, if the language has a callstack) < 1419184530 549603 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it could be if the elements are unbounded integers, depending < 1419184540 437951 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we should wait for the end of the question though. < 1419184555 487722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: actually I don't think, e.g., BF-PDA is TC with unbounded integers < 1419184556 597276 :n00b7489!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to implement printing a value as decimal and other complex algorithms in that highly limited programming language? < 1419184572 400336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you just need enough for fractran, right :p < 1419184609 869206 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: fractran needs you to be able to handle two unbounded integers at once, unless you have modulo or the like < 1419184616 764239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n00b7489: no, there isn't < 1419184629 193307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, okay, yes, I was assuming you had the necessary arithmetic < 1419184631 25621 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1419184634 836007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"addition and subtraction of the top two values" < 1419184641 321282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a difference from normal < 1419184653 939642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think now it's possible, if you have unbounded integers < 1419184682 661866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do multiply-by-constant, at least, which is /not/ true in BF-PDA < 1419184699 929048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can do divrem-by-constant too, you can do fractran < 1419184727 119964 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :n00b7489: I think this is very important: when you add/subtract the top two stack elements, where is the answer written? in particular, can you write the answer to the second stack element? < 1419184782 222323 :n00b7489!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The addition and subtraction operations pop two values from the top and push the result on the top. < 1419184810 710734 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1419184812 839783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that changes things a lot more < 1419184817 78541 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419184823 207380 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just have a few operations that shuffle or copy or discard the top few stack elements, in any combinations but only to a limited max depth < 1419184869 539428 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, there's obviously no way to move any information further from the bottom of the stack than it starts < 1419184895 798794 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leads me to think sub-TC, but haven't quite proved it yet < 1419184907 385784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe you can push < 1419184918 376922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1419184934 410460 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's fine as long as you don't need the stack to be unbounded < 1419184946 183434 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case we're on our way to reformulating counter machines with stacks... < 1419185026 821184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in that case you only have one counter, right? because information can only flow in one direction < 1419185048 765369 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1419185155 694722 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, clearly the stack is bounded in this case; you can never use information from lower on the stack, meaning that if the height on the stack is not constant for a given position in your program's control flow, you have an infinite loop < 1419185205 397183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this setting, it's possible to do a divide-modulo < 1419185212 788262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to work out if it's possible to do a multiply-by-constant < 1419185234 880672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is < 1419185245 274328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no, you can't do a divide-modulo, just a modulo < 1419185247 513866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, this is subTC < 1419185310 534903 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't even know exactly what control flow there is yet < 1419185612 756626 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming "if zero then goto" < 1419185636 599207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's a hypothetical question, and that's as fully general as you can get given the restrictions < 1419185698 50001 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :n00b7489, have you seen MNNBFSL < 1419185725 288088 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has two stacks but its interesting < 1419185728 658512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, that's a crazy "from" domain for spam: prison.gov.my < 1419185743 75921 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a "you have won the lottery, we are google" spam < 1419185747 541244 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxwuzyaetxdhnszi JOIN :#esoteric < 1419185775 910612 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hope your spam anaysis goes into Casino Viagra < 1419185788 185961 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh congrats. I hope you use your winnings for good < 1419185824 721373 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe that if this had happened, Google would email me from a prison (presumably that's malaysia, haven't checked the country code but it isn't hugely relevant) < 1419185998 32268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well. Ban Ki-moon, the Secretary-General of the United Nations sends email from unitednationspayment101@gmail.com. < 1419186011 158055 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't .my myanmar < 1419186022 283176 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, could be < 1419186037 679448 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's malaysia < 1419186039 577420 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ruins my next joke: from the country's name, MburmYa < 1419186072 564995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mm from Burmma, there you go. < 1419186125 550717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is interesting piece of spam I don't think I've seen before. < 1419186132 298991 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Below are few list of tracking numbers you can track from the UPS) Website (WWW.UPS.COM). To confirm beneficiaries like you who have received their payment successfully." < 1419186142 19105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's a list of 7 UPS tracking codes. < 1419186189 843200 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds legit. Where do I send my money? < 1419186194 383500 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that reminds me of the "we've won the lottery and want you to help us spend the money" scammers, some of them link to articles about people winning the lottery < 1419186197 193609 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tested one, and it had indeed been delivered. So I guess that's confirmed. < 1419186201 872603 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably hoping that people will trust the from address < 1419186238 299990 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "my late husband died and left me a lot of money" spams sometimes have links to Wikipedia articles about the people involved, or the high-profile plane crash or whatnot where they died. < 1419186265 490794 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw someone claim that they make the spam absurd so only the dumbest people will engage with them < 1419186396 829766 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also went to a talk where they analyzed internet pharmaceutical spam and found it was very reliable with excellent customer service. The thing was that it's hard to get a merchant credit card account so they can't afford getting complaints < 1419186409 127272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one also says that any delay in responding will cause UN to use the $4,900,000 they've earmarked for me to "help the people who have been displaced in Darfur, Sudan Africa which you can see it in this site www.savedarfur.org and the Tsunami's victims in Asia." < 1419186451 423335 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that one's really selecting for a special kind of human < 1419186461 453944 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm doing a good thing in not replying. < 1419186500 883839 :glguy!~glguy@unaffiliated/glguy PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably write that 5m$ on your taxes < 1419186509 708391 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.56.225.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419186517 927301 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :glguy: the same type of human who worships ebola-chan < 1419186531 507978 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.56.225.120 NICK :Guest222 < 1419186683 142376 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419186757 344952 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1419186813 216404 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.104.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419186835 692474 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.104.117 NICK :Guest26838 < 1419186953 35454 :Guest222!~shikhin@120.56.225.120 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1419187118 383660 :shikhout_!~shikhin@120.59.106.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419187180 108812 :Guest26838!~shikhin@120.59.104.117 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1419187414 578258 :shikhout_!~shikhin@120.59.106.220 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1419187731 978698 :shikhout_!~shikhin@59.177.202.217 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419187957 901928 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION debates if he should deviate from BASIC syntax for the left$ and right$ functions. < 1419188034 284007 :shikhout1!~shikhin@59.177.194.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419188054 620560 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are they < 1419188156 833137 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the standard forms take the leftmost or rightmost X number of characters. < 1419188182 485189 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like just taking the left or right half from index X instead would be more useful (it sure would've made my string-slice easier to write). < 1419188183 326600 :shikhout_!~shikhin@59.177.202.217 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419188221 639561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: the lefts are equivalent there < 1419188225 955746 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the rights that differ < 1419188228 279037 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also makes more sense to me: left$ essentially does this already, but right$ thus doesn't, so you get the actual right half from X, you have to either use mid$ or slice. < 1419188250 832934 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Exactly. It bugs me, because they seem like they should be opposite in a different way, you know? < 1419188283 963297 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you support negative indices < 1419188295 949784 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could write a split$ function < 1419188301 784096 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> splitAt 3 "hi there!" < 1419188303 239776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("hi ","there!") < 1419188307 201867 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> splitAt (-2) "hi there!" -- not so much... < 1419188308 548672 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ("","hi there!") < 1419188389 587279 :shikhout1!~shikhin@59.177.194.204 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1419188401 766353 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, at the moment I think a negative index would probably just result in some kind of horrible error. < 1419188435 425657 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I suppose it's moot in a sense because I do *have* slice and mid, and they can easily be used for that instead of left and right. < 1419188737 51826 :J_Arcane!~chatzilla@dsl-trebrasgw1-50dff2-22.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm now struck with a desire to overhaul my slice function ... < 1419188769 545355 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: UNINTERRUPTIBLE CHICKEN < 1419188969 976611 :shikhout_!~shikhin@120.59.226.99 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419190066 232190 :n00b7489!~MM@pool-98-109-191-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1419190094 82631 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, this no longer works in ldmud: string s = "foo"; s[3..0] = "bar"; write(s); ===> foobarfoo < 1419190648 124329 :shikhout_!~shikhin@120.59.226.99 NICK :shikhin < 1419190653 477855 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.226.99 QUIT :Changing host < 1419190653 521093 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1419191071 914700 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : def rsa_encrypt(key, element): < 1419191071 959775 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : assert isinstance(element, (long, int)), type(element) < 1419191072 28069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : _element = mpz(element) < 1419191072 71391 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return long(pow(_element, key.e, key.n)) < 1419191072 71507 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : def rsa_decrypt(key, cipher): < 1419191074 390111 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : assert isinstance(cipher, long), type(cipher) < 1419191076 968613 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : _cipher = mpz(cipher) < 1419191079 460251 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : return long(pow(_cipher, key.d, key.n)) < 1419191081 954751 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is like crypto slapstick < 1419191117 455669 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to just implement the equations directly using GMP, right? without padding or blinding or anything? < 1419191163 735285 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, not from pedagogic RSA-explaining code; https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2014-December/007999.html) < 1419191238 83420 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know any better < 1419191323 866069 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully you're not marketing your supposedly secure software like http://www.tribler.org/ <_< < 1419191343 200111 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was to implement RSA I would probably do better than these guys < 1419191357 5982 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right now I don't knwo whats wrong with that code < 1419191389 653791 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_(cryptosystem)#Padding and the next section < 1419191415 984761 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "Timing attacks" section mentions blinding) < 1419191429 91155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how their CSPRNG is mersenne twister < 1419191447 948768 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that mersenne twister is cryptographicaly secure < 1419191450 903959 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :is NOT*** < 1419191453 160018 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn it lol < 1419191473 200336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so many people try to use the Mersenne Twister as a CSPRNG, it's depressing < 1419191487 347627 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :In cryptography, Optimal Asymmetric Encryption Padding (OAEP) is a padding scheme often used together with RSA encryption. < 1419191491 865554 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one bit of good news is, almost everyone seeds it with a 32-bit seed even though it has much more internal state than that < 1419191492 475854 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and they seed it with 32 bytes of entropy or less < 1419191502 617304 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :padding attacks and stuff is kind of advanced < 1419191504 627251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or arguably bad news < 1419191514 507350 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats no tthe sort of thing you'd learn without trying < 1419191514 857187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that a mersenne twister can be easy to reverse just by brute force < 1419191539 29579 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: trying is one thing -- this is I think grant-funded research that has a snazzy site marketing it as secure and anonymous to ordinary people < 1419191549 700495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'd hope any course about crypto would teach about padding or such though!) < 1419191566 457408 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. hopefully they'll fix this in future standards, but currently in C++11 you need like four lines of code of cargo cult magic to seed the mersenne twister properly with more than just 32 bits of entropy < 1419191590 996407 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then you have to give an explicit amount of entropy to seed with, and you just have to make that number up < 1419191603 43395 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, maybe not that < 1419191604 608612 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pbflist < 1419191605 425996 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something close < 1419191610 821448 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1419191612 501000 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pbflist: shachaf Sgeo quintopia ion < 1419191693 275058 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Well I hope people will start to learn that you cannot pay for security < 1419191706 87795 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't buy a "NSA Proof phone" or whatever the fuck they are selling today < 1419191724 402663 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe once people learn that they will actually bother to learn how to use RSA for emails < 1419191745 637284 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just kidding, I know that will never happen - people just want to throw money around and pretend it will solve everything) < 1419191748 449181 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PGP is nigh-unusable, to be honest < 1419191753 388077 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used it < 1419191754 680062 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fine < 1419191760 794916 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's something like std::array ent; std::random_device dev; for (unsigned &w : ent) w = dev(); std::mt19937_64 rns(seed_seq(ent.begin(), end.end())); < 1419191769 299441 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it unbearable and I'm as nerdy as its designers. < 1419191779 70847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's riddiculous, why do I have to learn such magic incantations to seed my rng?\ < 1419191780 446776 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem with PGP is that you need someone ELSE to use it too < 1419191790 53690 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats why i never took off < 1419191791 260235 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the work https://whispersystems.org/ is doing with more-usable strong crypto. < 1419191793 620233 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1419191811 762883 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if whispersystems.org is free/open source? < 1419191816 494721 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1419191820 697321 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they publish their designs < 1419191821 466731 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the guy behind it moxie did release some tools before that are not free < 1419191826 302499 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :like redphone or something < 1419191834 38456 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of annoying to me < 1419191839 585233 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :thayt's good they're doing better now < 1419191841 838551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., https://whispersystems.org/blog/advanced-ratcheting/ < 1419191877 648695 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact they recently worked with WhatsApp and deployed that to all WhatsApp users... not sure how key verification works if it works at all but that's still kind of amazing that they gave every user of one of the biggest messaging platforms in the world state-of-the-art encryption overnight < 1419191913 53983 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: linear algebra is hard, they couldn't figure it out, so the NSA won't either ;-) < 1419191916 12330 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would be sad if the owners of WhatsApp could MITM the keys -- not sure if that's the case or exactly how they implemented it -- better than nothing though) < 1419191965 679808 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :vanila: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/RedPhone, at least (not saying it was necessarily released when the binaries were) < 1419192049 322048 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow ok I might just have this all totally wrong < 1419192052 193941 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool! < 1419192089 185951 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1419193077 84497 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekAfk < 1419193275 315547 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you know crypotl? < 1419193277 667255 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :cryptol < 1419193289 630566 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of it, and one or two vague things about it < 1419193291 497788 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing more < 1419193297 632891 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a free open source implementation now < 1419193318 770569 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1419193423 838056 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its really good < 1419193723 173102 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419194393 302132 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419194801 976074 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419194845 185715 :|oren\!~oren@TOROON0949W-LP140-1-1176000251.dsl.bell.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1419194890 325002 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419195045 831924 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419195894 942680 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dr gave me some cryptol last week < 1419195933 889813 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham, you should try it out! < 1419195938 307155 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you will like it < 1419195952 767837 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cryptol.net/ < 1419196027 31349 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the free/open one not the galois one? < 1419196056 308351 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :its still galois < 1419196069 701233 :vanila!~vanila@unaffiliated/vanila PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't emit VHDL and stuff anymore < 1419197958 306210 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419199341 624187 :MoALTz!~no@user-164-126-31-182.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1419201437 828628 :S1!~S1@p4FF92995.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: S1 < 1419201458 578811 :boily!~alexandre@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: SUBLIMATED CHICKEN < 1419201686 350237 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxsabrvaxobxgeva JOIN :#esoteric < 1419201807 396802 :GeekAfk!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekDue < 1419201809 21842 :GeekDue!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekDude < 1419201909 722158 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxsabrvaxobxgeva PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: thats very scary < 1419202029 732655 :Solace!uid52684@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gxsabrvaxobxgeva PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is that just on the flashdrive or is it remote access? < 1419203259 559203 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1419203470 734479 :bb010g!uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wpfsomopagkxmtka QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1419203706 944239 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hi < 1419203707 503865 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1419203738 339700 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo up, codu.org down. it's a mystery. < 1419203830 821313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you ever like a song, and then find out the lyrics and they are kind of worrying? <-- reminds me of the time i considered learning the lyrics to Stenka Razin < 1419203841 468868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(still considering) < 1419203869 828173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat, oren not here, that's unnatural < 1419204126 651341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks out oren's youtube link and feels the generation gap widening < 1419204167 325557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my general noise sensitivity isn't helping with that either. < 1419204256 98916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh now i'm starting to notice the ventilation system again < 1419204996 298968 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1419205188 73085 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419205529 691922 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1419205588 902901 :MDude!~fyrc@67.235.2.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1419205782 145023 :roasted42!~appleseed@41.48.16.45 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1419206234 711328 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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