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01:02:40 <Bicyclidine> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2014/n4210.pdf -trigraphs
01:06:17 <elliott> A major motivation at the time trigraphs were added was to support people with keyboards that lack
01:06:20 <elliott> these characters and we believe this continues today.
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01:08:40 <Bicyclidine> 2017, it's a standard named 2017 and they're concerned with keyboards lacking square brackets
01:09:04 <nys> supportin the budget customers
01:10:08 <elliott> hopefully C++ will add support for writing numbers like int x = ??twentythree; to accomodate users like me when my number keys broke
01:10:28 <ion> elliott: Why not simply use voice input?
01:10:33 <elliott> #define MAX_SIZE ??sixtyfivethousandfivehundredandfiftysix
01:12:15 <ion> Pink XD quotes 23 semicolon
01:13:11 <FireFly> EBCDIC is still important?
01:14:11 <shachaf> C++ already supports user-defined literals
01:14:17 <ion> I thought “it would be hilarious if there’s a variant of UTF-8 based on EBCDIC” and googled. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC
01:15:20 <elliott> ion: didn't you see "non-EBCDIC Unicode" in the pdf?
01:15:31 <elliott> a terrifying phrase by what it implies the existence of
01:16:40 <shachaf> I think zzo38 or someone has discussed UTF-EBCDIC in here before.
01:17:05 <Bicyclidine> now i have to check for unicode encodings based on other obscure encodings of the 1890s
01:17:38 <zzo38> There is 9-bit and 18-bit Unicode variants too
01:17:55 <Bicyclidine> gb18030 is an ascii superset. boooooriiiiiiing
01:18:03 <ion> Great Britain 18030
01:18:14 <Sgeo> "There are real customers who use EBCDIC. "
01:18:38 <zzo38> UTF-9 is really VLQ but with 9-bits in one byte so 8 data bits and 1 continuation bit.
01:18:39 <FireFly> zzo38: those were Aprils' fools specs, though
01:18:58 <Bicyclidine> i suppose this implies someone's actually using c1
01:19:14 <Sgeo> UTF-1 is best UTF
01:19:26 <Bicyclidine> single byte encodings that are like ESC FUCK or whatever in ascii
01:19:28 <zzo38> C0 control characters are more commonly used I think
01:19:40 <Sgeo> ...where did the name UTF-1 come from?
01:19:57 <ion> “We’re number 1!”
01:20:01 <viznut_> when i was thinking about what a soviet ternary homecomputer might be like, i found myself designing a balanced ternary version of the soviet gost character set
01:20:41 <zzo38> viznut_: Do you have a posted of such a thing?
01:21:05 <viznut_> i didn't publish anything about that project
01:21:08 <Bicyclidine> still disappointed i can't find a copy of that book on soviet space computers
01:21:41 <FireFly> I've heard of a channel on Freenode about ternary computers
01:21:44 <zzo38> Unicode is bad in general, although if you are using it then UTF-8 is best as it is compatible both with programs that use Unicode as well as programs that do not use Unicode and allows many things still working even in programs that do not use Unicode.
01:22:13 <Bicyclidine> i wonder if i still have the book mark even
01:22:22 <Bicyclidine> had an ISBN high code of like 13 or some shit
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01:47:07 <Dulnes> "never odd or even" spelled backwards is never.odd or even
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01:58:36 <Oren> language defined by reference interpreter or compiler. pro? con?
01:59:04 <elliott> pro: turing complete parsing
01:59:07 <elliott> con: turing complete parsing
01:59:40 <nys> fuk the chomskiarchy
01:59:49 <nys> smash the chomskiarchy
01:59:59 <Oren> what is chomkiarchy
02:00:13 <Oren> I'm not a politician
02:03:23 <Oren> after googling, i guess it's a pun on 'patriarchy' and the chomsky hierarchy?
02:03:56 <Oren> holy crap noam chomsky is still alive
02:04:07 <Oren> how is he still alive?
02:05:18 <zzo38> Well, I suppose if he didn't get dead yet, then, he can still be alive.
02:05:20 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
02:05:20 <lambdabot> Title: Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
02:05:35 <zzo38> He is almost 86 years old from Wikipedia
02:06:04 <Oren> wow. he's 17 years older than my grandpa
02:06:25 <Oren> only my greatgranduncle is that old
02:06:45 <Bicyclidine> maybe it's because i have centenarians in the family
02:07:59 <Oren> my family has people who died at 98 on one side, and 23 on the other
02:10:06 <Oren> so i'm 0.4 obamas old?
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02:14:06 <Oren> did you guys have a good knee-high socks day?
02:15:22 <elliott> yes but I didn't wear any knee-high socks
02:17:50 <Bicyclidine> was that today? mainly i just vomited, is that moe
02:19:26 <Oren> according to some poeple in japan it is
02:19:50 <Oren> moemoe stomach-acid
02:21:51 <Oren> sno't worry i'm toning it down, I'm at school right now
02:22:13 <elliott> don't worry, I love this channel's ever-advancing downward spiral
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02:35:17 <Oren> aww ipv6 wnt away
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02:53:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41233&oldid=41231 * SuperJedi224 * (+291)
02:57:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41234&oldid=41233 * SuperJedi224 * (+92)
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03:08:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41235&oldid=41207 * Orenwatson * (+158)
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03:15:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41236&oldid=41234 * SuperJedi224 * (+909)
03:16:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41237&oldid=41236 * SuperJedi224 * (-30)
03:17:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41238&oldid=41237 * SuperJedi224 * (+195) /* Basic Program Format */
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03:41:30 <Oren> most common labels in my C programs: heaven: and hell:
03:50:38 <zzo38> I don't use same label names so much all the time
03:54:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41239&oldid=41238 * SuperJedi224 * (+1249)
03:54:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41240&oldid=41239 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* SWITCH RANDOM|value|!value|=value|!=value */
03:56:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41241&oldid=41240 * SuperJedi224 * (-10) /* Some Commands */
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04:57:13 <Oren> goto heaven; goto hell; goto valhalla;
04:58:08 <Taneb> :( I have had a really bad night's sleep
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05:04:40 <cluid> I think Return Oriented Programming is an esolang
05:05:02 <int-e> nah, too useful ;-)
05:05:58 <Taneb> What is return oriented programming?
05:06:28 <int-e> a technique for exploiting buffer overflows on the stack that works with non-executable stacks
05:06:39 <cluid> Taneb, basically you scrape together a programming language out of the suffixes of compiled function bodies
05:06:51 <int-e> the idea is to put a sequence of return addresses on the stack, all poiting near the end of library functions
05:07:07 <int-e> such that when those are executed, something useful (to the attacker) happens.
05:10:09 <int-e> the feeling is certainly similar to that of some esolangs. "Oh, here I can set register x to a value on the stack", up to "here I can write a byte in register foo to the address r+42 where r is another register"; usually the operations have side effects (like setting register y would read some memory and destroy register z)
05:10:31 <int-e> (third hand experience, I've read a paper on ROP once or twice)
05:11:08 <cluid> the reason ROP is effective is the same reaosn most turing tarpits are TC
05:11:46 <cluid> I would like to add ROP to the wiki because it is a cool esolang but it also arose naturally unlike most constructed esolangs
05:12:10 <Oren> is there such thing as a "natural programming language"?
05:12:17 <int-e> of course it's a whole class of programming languages.
05:12:37 <Oren> how are they natural?
05:12:58 <cluid> well Chuck Moore says forth was discovered, not invented
05:12:59 <int-e> (Different programs, different library versions, different platforms, all lead to different flavours of ROP.)
05:13:05 <cluid> and I feel that too
05:13:19 <cluid> and Wadler said the the only thing we will definitely have in common with aliens is lambda calculus
05:13:27 <int-e> Oren: they evolved rather than being conceived through intelligent (or less...) design.
05:14:02 <Oren> oh I see, ROP is a natural language becuae the people who wrote the code that enables it did not intend to do so.
05:14:24 <int-e> (Speaking of ROP. I don't agree that Forth falls inside that category.)
05:14:25 <cluid> yeah it's like how bugs come live in dark spaces
05:14:32 <Oren> the interpreter is not by design it is accidental
05:15:50 <int-e> it's funny. by that definition, "natural languages" aren't.
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05:16:22 <zzo38> Is "natural number" a natural language then? I don't quite know that either?
05:16:54 <Oren> well, no-one intended to screw up norman french and anglo-saxon to make english it just happened while they were getting on with their lieves
05:17:15 <lambdabot> mroman said 14h 47m 9s ago: It's not my website
05:17:31 <oerjan> wow mroman is actually offline
05:17:32 <Taneb> Does anyone know a nice implementation of ColorForth I can use?
05:18:36 <oerjan> @tell mroman i used the word in the en:you = de:man sense
05:20:19 <cluid> so I think this could be nice but i gues its a bit subjective
05:20:47 <int-e> Hmm I wonder whether fizzie and I use the same encoding for Dominosa ...
05:21:09 <int-e> I guess it' boils down to "trits or bits?"
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05:31:34 <Dulnes> How do you... Make your own language And get people to use it > _ >
05:31:44 <cluid> you cna't get people to use it
05:32:02 <Dulnes> Also why are all my msgs faded
05:32:21 <Oren> wipe your screen
05:32:33 <Oren> with a cloth soaked in vodka
05:33:03 <Dulnes> Oren what is knee high socks day¿ is that a joke
05:33:13 <cluid> oerjan, I asked about ROP here a moment ago, do you have an comments
05:33:30 <Oren> knee high socks day is november 28
05:33:41 <Oren> on japanese twitter
05:33:54 <oerjan> cluid: no, since the logs for yesterday are long as sin
05:34:18 <Dulnes> Verbose fuck is a very "extensive" alter for bf
05:34:27 <Oren> 11 = ii = good 28 = nihachi which sounds like knee high
05:34:31 <cluid> I want to add it to the wiki
05:34:36 <cluid> i dont know if it will be accepted
05:35:23 <zzo38> I am not sure about "the only thing we will definitely have in common with aliens is lambda calculus". Who is this Wadler anyways?
05:35:35 <oerjan> cluid: we don't precisely reject a lot
05:35:38 <Oren> soo 11/28 = good knee highs day
05:35:44 <cluid> zzo38, he researches in functional languages
05:35:55 <cluid> oerjan, ok but is this good?
05:36:00 <cluid> or should i not bother
05:36:13 <Oren> to get people to use your language you need to make a cool thing where the interface is your langiuage
05:36:25 <oerjan> i don't know, i'm telling you the logs are long as sin which means you _might_ ask me again in five hours or so.
05:36:32 <Oren> like C got popular becuase of Unix
05:36:40 <cluid> i dont really understand that
05:36:59 <cluid> would you liketo rad the previous conversation? it is 20 lines or so I can paste it somewhere
05:37:04 <elliott> oerjan: don't worry, it's mostly me and fizzie trying to use speech recognition
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05:38:34 <zzo38> Dulnes: Ideas of what?
05:39:17 <Oren> also today 11:29 is meat day
05:39:22 <oerjan> zzo38: wadler is one of the main haskell designers, but i don't think he's been that active in the community for at least a decade. as an FP researcher he _would_ be biased on the universality of lambda calculus, i guess.
05:39:22 <zzo38> Don't you know esolang wiki includes a list of ideas?
05:39:59 <oerjan> zzo38: also, this gives me the idea of intelligent aliens without any concept of naming, which sounds scary somehow
05:40:11 <oerjan> if it is possible at all
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05:40:59 <Oren> 29 = ni kuu = niku = meat
05:41:09 <Oren> so today is meat day
05:41:32 <elliott> there are 365 days in the year Dulnes
05:41:32 <Oren> because we like to partay
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05:41:42 <cluid> i just want some advice on contributing to the wiki
05:42:03 <elliott> a rop article would be nice
05:42:05 <Oren> eat a hamburger it's meat day
05:42:22 <Oren> a rop article would be nice
05:42:59 <elliott> are you repeating things I Say
05:44:02 <Oren> * is not recognized as an internal or external command
05:44:13 <zzo38> oerjan: Maybe it is possible I don't know, but I would think intelligent alien monsters must study some mathematics, although it might not resemble our own mathematics unless you look really closely (which may be difficult I don't know), and may be considered as a different order; concept of natural numbers would probably be had due to its usefulness in mathematics although maybe it wouldn't be called "natural". So, possibly the mathematics of lamb
05:44:33 <zzo38> It doesn't, however, mean it has exactly the same use of programmers you know!
05:45:51 <oerjan> you got cut off after "the mathematics of lamb"
05:45:54 <cluid> therer are lots of different weird models of natural numbers
05:46:03 <Dulnes> Make a bot in malbolge
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05:46:32 <zzo38> So, possibly the mathematics of lambda calculus may be studied too, by some degree.
05:46:57 <oerjan> perhaps the aliens naturally think in grothendieck-like levels of abstraction and have trouble getting to something as concrete as numbers
05:47:36 <oerjan> maybe they use computers for concretion instead of abstraction
05:47:51 <zzo38> oerjan: I do suggest that is possible, but it doesn't mean numbers won't exist.
05:48:35 <oerjan> Dulnes: at least that might be _possible_.
05:48:39 <Dulnes> They think with high number equations that humans will never use
05:48:47 <elliott> well, they have to have invented spaceships.
05:49:14 <shachaf> oerjan: there was a story vaguely like that
05:49:19 <Dulnes> Mmmm i like malbolge its very [abstract] than others
05:49:40 <oerjan> Dulnes: i'm pretty sure abstract is _not_ the word you want
05:49:55 <zzo38> It that why it is in brackets?
05:49:59 <shachaf> oerjan: i think it was http://www.negrophonic.com/pdfs/ted_chiang_-_story_of_your_life.pdf
05:51:45 <oerjan> elliott: maybe they invented incremental garbage collection in the type system and the spaceships were just an accidental side effect hth
05:52:56 <oerjan> Dulnes: i think it's pretty much overall designed to fit the word "hellish" in there
05:56:16 <Dulnes> So oerjan i got that video
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05:58:23 <Dulnes> But what would the bot do and how would that be possible oerjan
06:02:43 <oerjan> i don't know about any video.
06:03:13 <oerjan> the bot would be able to do some simple reponses that don't require much memory.
06:03:55 <oerjan> malbolge has a strictly limited memory and it takes a lot of cleverness just not to waste a lot of it
06:04:12 * Dulnes Completely ignores that idea and makes the biggest sloppiest bulk bot in malbolge
06:04:24 <Taneb> I now about a video
06:04:39 <oerjan> also, i don't actually know how to concretely program in malbolge
06:05:55 <Dulnes> Look woman i just wanna work on something very hard and i need a crap language no one uses to do it
06:06:10 <oerjan> hm perhaps what you could do is to implement something compact like forth in it.
06:06:23 <elliott> I'm curious as to how this assumption of oerjan's gender came about :p
06:06:47 <Dulnes> No one knows eachothers genders
06:07:01 <Dulnes> Pretty sure elliott is a girl
06:07:04 <oerjan> some of us may have revealed them.
06:07:21 <elliott> oerjan is definitely a girl
06:07:34 * oerjan swats elliott -----###
06:08:08 <Bicyclidine> do you have some kind of problem with oyrur femininity, oerjan
06:08:26 <oerjan> not as much as with your spelling.
06:08:39 <zzo38> Dulnes: I don't know about nobody uses it, unless it is unimplemented; however there are some that only one or two people use
06:09:56 <Dulnes> Whatever ill try what oerjan said and compact fourth
06:10:25 <oerjan> i think if you could write a program in malbolge that implemented a simple forth interpreter and managed to compress what's in the rest of memory into its initial data then the rest would be somewhat easy
06:11:45 <Dulnes> Wasted 3 years in learning malbolge i guess i can put this to use
06:12:05 <Dulnes> But ill do this tommorow im gonna watch a movie
06:14:46 * Sgeo wonders if anyone developed a protocol that would make sense for the Discworld Clacks
06:14:54 <Sgeo> Preferably including replicating defects
06:18:44 <Bicyclidine> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_line i mean
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06:20:06 <oerjan> Bicyclidine: it's like Ook! just more compact hth
06:20:11 <Sgeo> I didn't think they existed in reality
06:20:22 <Sgeo> Although I also don't think any real system likely had protocols for sending images
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06:21:01 <oerjan> Sgeo: wait there's an old obsolete technology which you _don't_ know about?
06:21:15 <int-e> Sgeo: Then you're reading Pratchett wrong. Almost all technology that exists on Discworld also exists on Earth; it just tends to work in slightly different ways.
06:21:44 <Bicyclidine> well, i was briefly a voy scout. they still teach flag semaphore.
06:22:05 <Sgeo> int-e: I thought it was a mashup of telegram and TCP/IP
06:22:08 <Bicyclidine> but no, i don't think images were ever sent over optical telegraph.
06:22:27 <Bicyclidine> optical telegraph is a pretty obvious solution imo. i mean presumably you've heard of signal fires and lights.
06:22:59 <int-e> Sgeo: Oh, I thought the thing with putting gargoyles on the clacks was somewhat like the step towards directed radio transmission.
06:23:01 <Bicyclidine> oh, there are even older ones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_telegraph
06:23:10 <Bicyclidine> now this one i hadn't heard of, but is again obvious
06:23:10 <Sgeo> int-e: I haven't read/don't remember that.
06:23:43 * Sgeo just watched Going Postal. Read the book but that was years ago
06:23:52 <oerjan> i recall that story about one of the first times they sent images from a phone booth and it got ruined because the phone operator couldn't grasp the concept that they _really_ didn't want her to interrupt to tell they needed to put on more coins
06:24:44 <Bicyclidine> apparently telegraphy was one of the first uses of electromagnetic induction, which i think is neat
06:25:03 <Bicyclidine> like, they tested to see if it would work before they worked out the physical laws
06:25:23 <cluid> There is a very powerful concise string rewriting language
06:25:59 <cluid> first you define syntax like this: <S> ::= 00 | 01 | 1 <S> <S>
06:26:17 <int-e> Sgeo: I don't know which book, but at some point they transmit pictures over the clacks, which requires rather high data rates.
06:26:22 <cluid> then you define rewrite laws like this: 1100 S:x S:y --> x, 11101 S:x S:y S:z --> 11xz1yz
06:26:35 <cluid> ths implements BCL for example, but you could implement other things
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06:26:52 <Sgeo> Probably Monstrous Regiment. Also occurs in Going Postal but as more of a side note. At least in the TV adoptation
06:27:09 <Bicyclidine> i don't remember clacks even existing in monstrous regiment
06:27:12 <Sgeo> They didn't show the vampire turning to dust in the TV adoption of Going Postal
06:27:15 <Taneb> They definitely did
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06:27:31 <Taneb> And The Truth, a little
06:27:31 <Bicyclidine> i haven't read a discworld book since highschool, ha ha
06:27:38 <Oren> it was going postal
06:27:43 <Oren> they had a race
06:27:59 <Oren> mail and clacks who sends the book first
06:28:39 <Oren> I have read every book Sir T.P. has ever published
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06:29:37 <Oren> anyway the mail dude gave the part of the book with all the pictures so the clacks dudes
06:29:47 <Oren> would have to take time to encode it
06:30:27 <zzo38> Can the initial contents of the inventory be changed without using scripts?
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06:46:28 <Sgeo> There's no adaptation of Making Money :(
06:46:32 <Sgeo> And I haven't read it yet either
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06:51:28 <coppro> there's a hilarious bit about economic modeling
06:51:41 <Taneb> I'm gonna feel like crap today, I've had next to no sleep :(
06:55:57 <int-e> why don't you go back to bed?
06:56:07 <Taneb> I'm wide awake now
06:56:17 <int-e> (I believe it's Saturday so it might be an option)
06:59:18 <Taneb> I could just go back to bed
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07:06:53 <MDude> But then how will you make a language based on the power of sleep deprivation?
07:14:51 <J_Arcane> this is a man who takes his keyboarding seriously ... http://mykeyboard.co.uk/
07:16:07 <cluid> esolang wiki is down?
07:16:31 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo hi"]} target:#esoteric rest:"hi"
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07:16:58 <Taneb> (it is all on Gregor's server, right?)
07:17:17 <oerjan> yes, but Gregor has a tendency to be absent for long stretches of time
07:17:25 <oerjan> especially on weekends, i think
07:17:43 <oerjan> oh it's just extremely slow
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07:18:13 <Taneb> Ah, esolangs seems to be slooooooooooow but not dead too
07:20:09 <oerjan> <elliott> someone poke me in an hour <-- did anyone remember?
07:20:31 <Taneb> Remember? I didn't even notice
07:20:37 <elliott> I remembered because I'm smart and competent
07:20:38 <Taneb> When did elliott say that
07:20:48 <Taneb> elliott, when did you say that?
07:20:55 <oerjan> elliott: i notice *pumpkin isn't here though
07:21:11 <oerjan> also, he should totally add bipumpkin
07:21:58 <oerjan> ok not on the network at all
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07:23:17 <oerjan> far more than an hour ago
07:23:57 <Taneb> OK, then, I was probably doing something else
07:24:48 <oerjan> well you weren't speaking around that time, anyway
07:25:23 <Taneb> Sometimes I am here but do not speak, normally because I haven't got anything to say
07:25:30 <Taneb> But sometimes because I have no idea what's going on
07:25:51 <Taneb> And sometimes because I'm busy in another channel which is attracting all of my attention
07:27:00 <Sgeo> 'The Sorting Engine, designed by "Bloody Stupid" Johnson to have a wheel with a pi equal to exactly three, which bends reality to the point that it occasionally puts out letters from the past, the future, or even from alternate realities (ones where the check really was in the post, for example).'
07:27:06 <Sgeo> Now I'm sad that wasn't in the adoption
07:27:52 <oerjan> you can't animate pi=3 physical fact
07:29:07 <J_Arcane> Researching keyboards, I think I realized just now that I've been mis remembering how the IBM keyboards worked.
07:30:25 <Taneb> I am going to go back to bed now
07:31:23 <Sgeo> I barely remember the book
07:31:52 <Sgeo> I did remember the jamming of the clacks and was waiting for that while watching, but I don't know if I remember that fromt the books or from reading about the books
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07:34:37 <Sgeo> Someone please ping me if there's a Thief of Time adoptation, I loved the book in high school and gave it to a teacher to read
07:34:54 <Sgeo> When running to school sometimes I would think to myself 'HERE COMES THE CLOCK'
07:35:41 <J_Arcane> IBM buckling spring keyboards don't necessarily have more travel than, say, Cherry switches, it's that they don't bottom out the same: the mechanism stops before the key hits flat with the base, but rather stops against the frame of the switch.
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07:40:59 <oerjan> heh hendrik's and henkma's A057755 solutions are literally identical (and expectedly very close to mine)
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07:45:09 <oerjan> @tell int-e darn if i had knew my 1+2^n`div`54426 was so close to working...
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08:01:03 * oerjan has arrived at the point in the logs where fizzie and fungot get indistinguishible
08:01:03 <fungot> oerjan: the one that symbolizes our family: each saves a million right words to you, you'd become instantly paralyzed with a life-shattering fear, for many people!
08:01:30 <oerjan> fungot: how apocalyptic of you
08:01:30 <fungot> oerjan: that you all for them, i have come up with a new saddest thing ever!!... which is also nice, until a really attractive friend of theirs shows, interviews, documentaries about me, make new friends, and start a life of lies?
08:01:40 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz* sms speeches ss wp youtube
08:05:08 * Sgeo vaguely recalls disliking The Colour of Magic but liking The Light Fantastic. I think The Light Fantastic was the first Discworld book I read. Sadly, The Colour of Magic has an adoptation while The Light Fantastic doens't seem to
08:07:18 <J_Arcane> Also, I had no idea that you could only get n-key rollover on a PS/2 keyboard. I wonder why that is?
08:12:36 <Jafet> The USB HID protocol involves sending the full keypress state of the keyboard
08:14:22 <oerjan> Sgeo: cluid is a bit slow hth
08:14:52 <int-e> J_Arcane: it's easier to connect keys in some sort of grid than to have a wire (plus ground) to each individual key
08:15:28 <oerjan> the 5 hours is probably going to be a gross underestimate today
08:15:42 <J_Arcane> int-e: Yeah, but what I found odd is that some keyboards have n-key but only if you use the PS2 connector.
08:16:18 <J_Arcane> It seems to specifically a limitation in the connector protocol, as Jafet says.
08:16:39 <int-e> Hmm. I dunno. I thought in those old protocols keyboards would just send differential "this key was pressed" and "this key was released" messages.
08:16:50 <Sgeo> There's a _THIRD_ Moist von Lipwig book?
08:17:38 <int-e> And by "thought" it means I made this assumption based on the AT keyboard controller's programming interface.
08:18:22 <int-e> Sgeo: yes. Going Postal, Making Money, and Raising Taxes.
08:18:41 <Sgeo> Raising Steam, I thought?
08:18:52 <int-e> (the ... was for typo-ing "I" as "it")
08:19:36 <int-e> Haha. There's some foreshadowing on taxes at the end of that book, isn't there...
08:21:06 <J_Arcane> Anyway, my wife balked at me spending €135 on a keyboard, so instead I'm just going to try a Durandal; just can't decide which switches I want. Leaning towards the Blues and getting some o-rings to put on it.
08:27:18 <zzo38> Do you know the Famicom keyboard protocol? It allows you to push all the keys since it just reads a bit for each key pushed or not.
08:29:12 <int-e> J_Arcane: after a bit of research, what one gets from the controller is also what happens on the wire, so from the PS2 protocol perspective there is no reason for this limitation. In fact http://blog.controlspace.org/2010/08/n-key-rollover-what-it-is-and-how-to.html says that USB limits rollover but PS2 doesn't.
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08:29:58 <oerjan> @tell Vorpal <Vorpal> Is there a way to say to cabal "fix mixed versions"? I.e rebuild any packages depending on different versions of a package so that everything just works, and I don't get weird errors. <-- apart from the sandbox thing, i vaguely think that if you install all the packages as _one_ cabal install command it will seek versions that work with all simultaneously
08:30:18 <int-e> J_Arcane: I think I interpreted your statement wrong, because I'd never heard of n-key-rollover. My bad.
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08:31:32 <int-e> ("n" is not meant as a limitation to some particular n, but means "unbounded".)
08:33:32 <J_Arcane> int-e: Yeah. N-key (as opposed to 3-key, 6-key etc.) means you can hit all the keys at once; each are detected individually. Most membrane keys are only 3-key.
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08:35:55 <int-e> why would anyone type with both shift keys pressed...
08:36:00 <J_Arcane> USB is apparently limited to 6-key + 4 mod-keys.
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08:36:50 <int-e> HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG <-- I wonder whether one could recognize keyboard models that way
08:37:09 <J_Arcane> int-e: I've had problems in the past with things like Emacs or IDE shortcuts based on symbols, because I have a Finnish keyboard, and AltGr is a pain in the arse.
08:39:23 <int-e> > map head.group.sort$"HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG"
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08:42:39 <int-e> I don't think this has been much of an issue for me ever since I stopped playing Bomberman against others.
08:43:17 <J_Arcane> I get: H UCK BON FOX JUMPD OV H LAZY DOG
08:44:04 <elliott> huck on fox jumpd ov h lazy dog
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08:46:49 <J_Arcane> Other nice perk of getting a Cherry MX based board: stuff like this: http://keypuller.com/dsa-retro/
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10:25:16 <oerjan> <fizzie> There was an attempt to add some flags that disable nested functions, but that ran into some other issue that I forget. <-- well the first issue is that gcc simply doesn't _have_ a flag to turn it off.
10:25:33 <oerjan> i think there was talk about other hacks to achieve it, though.
10:25:56 <oerjan> that is, it doesn't have a flag to turn off that specifically.
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13:31:39 <int-e> Wait, irssi has an UPGRADE command? Why didn't I try that...
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14:08:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41242&oldid=41241 * SuperJedi224 * (+401) /* Some Commands */
14:15:16 <J_Arcane> Just ordered this: http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/01G1XX1NOBK
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16:56:43 <fizzie> Last I looked, those were a lot simpler than the MIT Mystery Hunt one, though I think they only had categories up to "Double Cross" then.
17:19:30 <int-e> userreport.com ... really?!
17:20:57 <Oren> what about it?
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17:30:31 <int-e> [ABC]\s(LU|LP)]* <-- what kind of regex is that supposed to be...
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17:31:09 <FireFly> I tried one of the "Experienced" ones, and there seems to be lots of redundant information
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17:31:53 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input ‘:’
17:32:00 * FireFly isn't sure whether `relcome is appropriate or not
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17:35:40 <EvanR> is php on topic here?
17:36:55 <J_Arcane> Heh. "PHP considered esoteric" would be good Hacker News bait. ;)
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17:38:21 <HackEgo> EvanR: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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17:50:46 <Oren> PHP can be esoteric depending on programming practices
17:51:42 <Oren> Like suppose you disallowed access to variable except through that $GLOBALS thingy
17:52:01 <Oren> a dialect like that would be quite esoteric
17:52:50 <Oren> but then a lot lof languages have easily abuasble parts
17:53:08 <EvanR> or you cant assign locals without using extract
17:53:46 <Oren> yeah that sort of thing. IIRC there is a dialect of Ruby on the wiki somewhere
17:56:29 <int-e> blah blah "You can go ahead and be proud. You are now among the elite group of poultry who has completed our most prestigious Experienced challenge." ... nah, those were easy.
17:56:42 <int-e> And poultry, seriously?!
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17:58:01 <int-e> "you're too chicken for this challenge"
17:58:16 <Oren> ilove eating chickens
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18:20:27 <Taneb> Well, it's 20 past 6 in the evening now
18:20:56 <Oren> ohayou~~ guten morgen~ buongiorno
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18:21:22 <Oren> it's about midday where I am
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18:55:58 <elliott> int-e: /upgrade does terrifying things
18:56:27 <elliott> int-e: it uses the "exec keeps our fds" trick and is a huge scary hack :p
18:56:38 <fizzie> I remember looking up the details on how it passes the state.
18:56:46 <elliott> remember when I made mcmap do it?
18:57:12 <elliott> nice, my running irssi is over four years out of date
18:57:19 <fizzie> xmonad also has a --restart which does a serialize-state-and-so-on thing.
18:57:21 <elliott> that restart'll be a doozy
18:57:28 <elliott> I hope this doesn't have any security holes
18:57:44 <elliott> xmonad does it in a less terrifying way, I think, though
18:57:53 <fizzie> I assume it keeps the X socket alive across it, still. Though I haven't checked.
18:58:03 <fizzie> I do know it serializes the state into a command line argument.
18:58:49 <elliott> oh, also /upgrade disconnects you from TLS servers
18:58:59 <elliott> wouldn't help me at all then
18:59:09 <elliott> pikhq_: it could serialise that state too
18:59:14 <fizzie> Because after I do xmonad --restart, the process command line is like "xmonad-x86_64-linux --resume StackSet {current = Screen {workspace ... layout = "Choose L (ModifiedLayout (ConfigurableBorder Never []) (ModifiedLayout (AvoidStruts (fromList [U,D,R,L])) (Choose L (HintedTile {nmaster = 1, delta = 3 % 100, frac = 1 % 2, alignment = TopLeft, orientation = Tall}) (Choose ..." and so on.
18:59:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41243&oldid=41101 * 106.216.167.230 * (+129) /* Normal implementations */
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19:00:25 <pikhq_> elliott: Yeah, but OpenSSL has a lot of state.
19:00:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41244&oldid=41243 * 106.216.167.230 * (+13) /* Normal implementations */
19:01:09 <elliott> trying to do this kind of upgrade functionality ad-hoc is sort of hopeless.
19:01:40 <elliott> if you wnat /upgrade with TLS, run a local proxy to do the TLS for you and connect to that I suppose
19:08:37 <EvanR> yes split the program into processes that can be rebooted separately
19:08:49 <EvanR> thats what i was thinking for a mud server
19:08:57 <EvanR> reload the game without disconnecting users
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19:13:04 <int-e> fizzie: it can't be more horrible than fvwm's restart mechanism
19:13:38 <int-e> (which does the xmonad thing, serialize state to disk, exec keeping the X11 fd, reload...)
19:14:05 <int-e> or perhaps not keeping the X11 fd, I forgot.
19:15:09 <b_jonas> why would it have to keep the x11 fd? can't it just reconnect?
19:15:15 <int-e> hmm, if only dominosa numbered squares from 1, I could now save 4 strokes in my dc solution.
19:15:38 <int-e> b_jonas: yeah. I think it does that.
19:16:05 <b_jonas> does X at least try to make this kind of restarting easy by giving windows a unique id that isn't reused quickly?
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19:21:58 <b_jonas> zzo38: so http://esolangs.org/wiki/REGXY is basically a useful subset of sed, except that it allows backreferences to more than nine capture groups (that limit in painful sed because there are no non-capturing parens)?
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19:47:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41245&oldid=41242 * SuperJedi224 * (+2100)
19:48:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41246&oldid=41245 * SuperJedi224 * (-75) /* Command Summary */
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19:49:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41247&oldid=41246 * SuperJedi224 * (+62) /* Command Summary */
19:50:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41248&oldid=41247 * SuperJedi224 * (+66) /* Command Summary */
19:51:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41249&oldid=41248 * SuperJedi224 * (+0) /* Command Summary */
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20:10:16 <fizzie> int-e: I don't think irssi used the disk.
20:10:36 <fizzie> int-e: I'm not sure if it was irssi or some other program, but I distinctly remember something using a shared memory block for that.
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20:15:59 <elliott> I remember it being horrible
20:16:48 <Taneb> It was a sort of in-between server
20:25:05 <fizzie> That's not the horrible part.
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20:26:07 <fizzie> g_file_open_tmp("mcmap.XXXXXX"), raw write(2) of a couple of structures, execl, add an --upgrade command line argument that takes an fd number as argument.
20:26:57 <fizzie> The fd argument being the temporary file those things were written.
20:27:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41250&oldid=41235 * SuperJedi224 * (+106)
20:27:29 <elliott> Taneb: I know that much, considering how much code I wrote for it :p
20:29:20 <fizzie> I've been using GNU stow to manage ~/local/ but now I'm wondering if I should use the "modules" thing -- http://modules.sourceforge.net/ -- we use at the university, instead. I'm not sure I want to have all kinds of silly stuff in path all the time. (Just most of it.)
20:30:20 <elliott> fizzie: have you seen cpressey's toolshelf?
20:30:24 <elliott> @google cpressey toolshelf
20:30:25 <lambdabot> https://github.com/cpressey/dotfiles/commits/master
20:30:30 <elliott> @google cpressey toolshelf github
20:30:30 <lambdabot> https://github.com/catseye/toolshelf/commits/master
20:30:37 <lambdabot> https://bitbucket.org/catseye/toolshelf
20:30:40 <elliott> @google catseye toolshelf github
20:30:41 <lambdabot> https://github.com/catseye/toolshelf
20:32:38 <fizzie> I think I remember seeing that.
20:33:05 <fizzie> But I don't remember how it differs from stow.
20:33:18 <fizzie> I guess the automatic building part.
20:34:36 <fizzie> (Where "building" means source-fetching, configuring, building and installing.)
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20:36:09 <fizzie> (Yesterday's successful speech recognition chat inspired me to try getting a working copy of our lab's thing at home.)
20:36:31 <elliott> that some definition of success
20:36:50 <fizzie> It did make me laugh multiple times.
20:39:20 <b_jonas> what was yesterday's successful speech recognition chat? I
20:39:27 <b_jonas> don't think I've heared of it
20:39:41 <fizzie> Well, you're in luck, I collected the highlights to a paste.
20:39:44 <elliott> was when I hope Chelsea defender
20:39:52 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/hChg there you go
20:39:54 <elliott> fizzie: oh, god, did you show other people this?
20:40:02 <fizzie> elliott: Just ineiros.
20:40:34 <fizzie> elliott: He had the gall to suggest using speech recognition for IRC might lead to "misunderstandings".
20:40:43 <fizzie> Had to prove him wrong, you see.
20:41:06 <b_jonas> I think I saw some of that, I remember the "somethign something is shaped"
20:41:12 <b_jonas> but I didn't know it was speech recognition
20:41:23 <fizzie> You just thought we've all lost our minds?
20:41:58 <b_jonas> no, that sentence didn't seem too off at this channel
20:42:05 <elliott> "autobots truck driver" was really good
20:44:29 <fizzie> elliott: That was "-- what device are you using [hesitation] or software", I think.
20:45:05 <fizzie> I may have made some sort of non-lexical sound.
20:45:35 <b_jonas> "oh you meant Ahmed lemon finance 10m kinetic Thunderhead Gangnam
20:45:44 <fizzie> That was all me trying to say "Taneb".
20:46:07 <fizzie> I'm not sure how it got "finance" out of that.
20:46:40 <fizzie> Or, well, any of the others, either.
20:46:59 <Taneb> It's got the right vowels
20:47:30 <fizzie> And a nasal sound in the middle, and a plosive at the end. Okay, it's somewhat reasonable.
20:49:01 <b_jonas> I don't know how I missed this
20:50:52 <ion> “xD O'Toole” is the best thing ever.
20:53:30 <b_jonas> well, it seemed to work well
21:00:21 <EvanR> if i wanted to make an esolang, what should i do
21:01:37 <EvanR> read the entire wiki and figure out what hasnt been done yet
21:04:30 <Taneb> Have an idea, write it down
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21:14:47 <fizzie> There's a page of free-to-all ideas too, IIRC.
21:14:54 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: the ideas might not be good ones.)
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21:17:04 <b_jonas> just whatever you do, DON'T MAKE A BRAINFUCK-DERIVED LANGUAGE
21:19:11 <J_Arcane> I have yet to write a brainfuck. I almost went through one of the Racket #lang tutorials for doing one, but got distracted making something else and realized it didn't really show me anything I couldn't figure out myself.
21:19:50 <Taneb> I've got most of a brainfuck implementation in Scheme
21:20:53 <J_Arcane> (in particular, a lot of the tutorials on defining your own #lang modules conveniently fail to go into the dependency issues involved in setting up anything larger than a single sourcefile ...)
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21:26:10 <Oren> write a specification
21:26:47 <Oren> or an implementation
21:27:58 <Oren> no.1 is the normal approach, no.2 is the Perl approach
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21:29:36 <b_jonas> J_Arcane: I'm still actively try to resist writing one. I have an idea on the ideas page that I could turn into a brainfuck-like, but I don't want to. I need some other simple language to modify instead.
21:29:38 <ORen> is it more common for a spec to exist first, or an implementation
21:29:57 <ORen> for esolangs that is
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21:30:14 <elliott> implementation-first is more usual than spec-first
21:30:24 <J_Arcane> I wrote VIOLET with a spec first. Heresy doesn't have a spec though, it just has Ground Rules. But it's a lab language for me, really.
21:30:28 <b_jonas> Can you recommend me a simple enough language that is definitely not brainfuck, and has some sort of parenthesis that have to be balanced, like the brakcets in bf?
21:31:15 <b_jonas> Dulnes: simple, I said simple
21:31:58 <ORen> a minimal lisp could be very minimal
21:32:08 <b_jonas> ORen: hmm yeah, somethign like that could work
21:32:39 <b_jonas> (I have a small lisp implementation, though it's not really good, it bothers me that it doesn't have a |let| builtin, nor a way to define macros)
21:32:45 <b_jonas> I'll think if I can modify it
21:32:50 <Dulnes> Javascript is simple idk what you are on about b_jonas
21:33:15 <b_jonas> though I was also thinking of making a syntax for a lips that looks like BancSTAR
21:33:27 <b_jonas> hmm, I wonder if I could combine these two
21:33:54 <J_Arcane> b_jonas: implement PILOT with s-expressions.
21:33:58 <ORen> javascript is too C-like
21:34:20 <ORen> ALGOL dialects are hard to parse
21:35:38 <ORen> lisp on the other hand is almost trivial to write a parser
21:35:43 <Dulnes> If cars could run off code then I'd be set.
21:35:59 <EvanR> ORen: yeah. (read ...) ;)
21:36:07 <Dulnes> Its how you use javascript that makes it C like
21:36:13 <EvanR> "everything is easy in lisp, read, eval"
21:36:16 <J_Arcane> ORen: in Python there's a standard library that basically already does the necessary string-split routine.
21:37:23 <Dulnes> javascriPt++ or was it JAVASCRIpT++ idk which letter it was
21:37:52 <ORen> the problem with ALGOL dialects is the precedence rules. it requires a lot of mulstmt := mulstmt '*' expstmt grabage
21:38:29 <EvanR> people use bison for parsers?
21:39:09 <Dulnes> Use XML and be done with it
21:39:24 <ORen> I have used bison, but any language with a decent grammar doesn't need it imo
21:39:29 <J_Arcane> ORen: increasingly, I find myself unable to be excited by a language if I see curly braces in it.
21:39:30 <EvanR> XML, thats another esoteric language people dont usually think of
21:39:39 <Dulnes> Also what are you trying to do b_jonas
21:39:54 <b_jonas> dunno, I'll have to think more of this
21:39:57 <J_Arcane> EvanR: I have a friend who works at a shop with an inhouse scripting language implemented entirely as xml tags.
21:40:31 <EvanR> i guess its real xml if they are "leveraging" the reader
21:41:49 <pikhq_> J_Arcane: It's a surprisingly common thing, sadly.
21:42:43 <pikhq_> EvanR: Yeah, Bison is still pretty common for parsers.
21:42:59 <pikhq_> It ain't the best, but it is at least well-supported everywhere and does at least do the job.
21:43:44 <Dulnes> Someone recommend a amazing parsing language
21:44:02 <Dulnes> Wait what was the question we were on
21:44:06 <elliott> b_jonas: what about underload?
21:45:13 <Dulnes> "My skin is made of paper my bones are made of glass"
21:45:36 <b_jonas> elliott: I dunno... maybe that could work, but the problem is that I don't really understand underload
21:45:48 <ORen> any decent language can be parsed with no backtracking and no lookahead
21:46:27 <elliott> b_jonas: you can view it as either a self-modifying language based on strings, or a simple stack-based functional language
21:46:58 <b_jonas> you know what I should do?
21:47:27 <b_jonas> I should try to collect all the strange ideas I've had about what esolangs I should make, and then try to see how many I could satisfy together with a single esolang.
21:47:49 <b_jonas> Some of them are certainly contradictory, but still
21:48:06 <Dulnes> Why not mix every esolang together and make a new hybrid
21:48:19 <b_jonas> Dulnes: because that would be a brainfuck-alike, silly
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21:49:05 <ORen> bf is still too algol-like
21:49:51 <ORen> it has the hegemonic dijkstraic while loop
21:49:52 <Dulnes> what are lambdabot's syntax's i forgot
21:50:02 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
21:50:04 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
21:50:24 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
21:50:27 <ais523> bleh, I've been obsessed with LCRNGs over the last few days
21:50:51 <Dulnes> Ill go play with lambdabot later
21:50:56 <newsham> state' = (state * a + b) mod c
21:50:57 <ais523> b_jonas: LCRNGs generally
21:51:05 <ORen> the best loop structure for any problem is loop( ... if(cond)end; ... )
21:51:22 <b_jonas> ais523: but what is an LCRNG?
21:51:25 <Sgeo> I should go complain about Rust on Reddit
21:51:48 <fizzie> b_jonas: Linear congruential, I'm guessing.
21:51:59 <newsham> the best loop structure is a list
21:52:16 <newsham> they say the best loops in life are free
21:52:47 <Sgeo> If the universe were a curved in the right way, you'd have a perfect loop right there, for free
21:52:52 <ORen> the condition should be able to go anywhere inside the loop, not just at the start
21:53:05 <ais523> b_jonas: newsham's formula is correct
21:53:22 <EvanR> Sgeo: is that a new esolang? ;)
21:53:30 <ORen> but dijkstra-inspired people want to take away my break; statment
21:53:35 <Dulnes> The infinite loop string in bash is very fun
21:53:39 <Sgeo> Yes. We're all living in an esolang right now.
21:54:02 <newsham> we're just the holographic projection of an esolang
21:54:09 <newsham> that exists on the surface of our universe
21:54:19 <newsham> of the boundary of our universe
21:54:38 <Dulnes> The horizon of the universe where matter is faster than light
21:54:47 <EvanR> forget loops, no loops
21:55:13 <EvanR> alternatively, everything infinitely loops
21:55:36 <Dulnes> Infinite loops while :; do echo 'Hit example key'; sleep 1; done
21:56:51 <newsham> no backward branches, only infinite programs?
21:57:12 <EvanR> yes the program itself is infinite
21:57:23 <EvanR> solving part of the issue right there
21:58:02 <newsham> i will use a finite looping program to generate an infinite program, ok?
21:58:28 <ORen> describe the program in a timeless manner
21:59:35 <elliott> ORen: kinda misses the "structure" in "structured programming"
21:59:48 <EvanR> let the program be a mapping from the ordinals
22:01:01 <ORen> down with dijkstra
22:01:10 <newsham> f n | even n = emit state | otherwise = state := state + 1
22:02:35 <ORen> if you want the program to halt you put | n > N : nop
22:02:56 <newsham> now assign numeric values to each operation, and take its fourier transform...
22:03:05 <ORen> or some more interesting condition that beomes forever true
22:03:17 <newsham> I BETTER NOT SEE ANY FINITE SIGNAL AT ANY FINITE FREQUENCY!
22:03:32 <EvanR> these are good ideas
22:03:49 <newsham> periodic programs == looping!@#
22:04:15 <ORen> specifically infinite looping
22:05:11 <EvanR> the kernel better continue its infinite looping
22:05:43 <EvanR> (er, interrupt handling, nevermind)
22:06:35 <EvanR> how about concurrent esolangs
22:08:55 <newsham> prog p n = toEnum ((collatz p !! n) `mod` maxBound)
22:09:13 <elliott> `mod` maxBound sounds like a nop
22:09:15 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mod`: not found
22:09:34 <elliott> `mod` maxBound is id unless the argument is maxBound I guess
22:09:35 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mod`: not found
22:09:59 <newsham> maxBound of program instructions enum
22:10:35 <newsham> collatz n | even n = n : collatz (n `div 2) | otherwise = n : collatz (3 * n + 1)
22:10:44 <EvanR> i thought about using collatz somehow
22:11:21 <newsham> does (prog p) loop for some arbitrary p?
22:13:47 <EvanR> wouldnt !! n crash on a list too short
22:14:19 <newsham> collatz is an infinite sequence
22:15:06 <newsham> > let collatz n = if (even n) then n : collatz (n `div` 2) else n : collatz (3*n + 1) in collatz 55
22:15:08 <lambdabot> [55,166,83,250,125,376,188,94,47,142,71,214,107,322,161,484,242,121,364,182,...
22:15:08 <ORen> 1 is odd so it become 4
22:15:28 <EvanR> 4 2 1 4 2 1 4 2 1..
22:15:33 <newsham> > let collatz n = if (even n) then n : collatz (n `div` 2) else n : collatz (3*n + 1) in collatz 4
22:15:34 <lambdabot> [4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2...
22:16:29 <newsham> > let collatz n = if (even n) then n : collatz (n `div` 2) else n : collatz (3*n + 1) in length (takeWhile (/= 1) (collatz 55))
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22:21:10 <newsham> data INSTR = NOP | PRINTSTATE | INPUT | SUB | ACCUM
22:21:34 <ORen> I want to add the ability for the host program to give a library of functions to a scrip7 script... but i'm not sure what the best way to do this is
22:21:36 <newsham> 4,2,1,4,2,1,4,2,1,... = ACCUM, INPUT, PRINTSTATE, ACCUM, INPUT, PRINTSTATE
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22:22:20 <ORen> newsham: that is awesome
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22:25:17 <ORen> mybe a H (for 'host call') instruction
22:26:12 <FireFly> <fizzie> fine what <fizzie> that last one was my wife crying ← I found that impressive (re. speech recognition)
22:29:51 <ORen> well, I want a scrip7 script to be able to access C functions particular to the host program
22:30:33 <ORen> like for example "draw sprite" in a game
22:31:23 <ORen> but the architecture of such a 'host call' brings up conflicts of C vs scrip7 semantics
22:31:38 <fizzie> FireFly: In case it wasn't clear, that was she trying to say "fungot".
22:32:03 <fizzie> Speaking of which, where is it.
22:32:37 <FireFly> fizzie: I did realise that, but the second line tripped me up for a split second yesterday before realising crying ~ trying
22:32:39 <fizzie> Hm, is holmes.freenode.net not answering.
22:32:52 <FireFly> "<fizzie> the Mondeo system also I love smoking bowl out of snow" what was that supposed to be?
22:33:11 <ORen> fungot [fis@selene.zem.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:33:28 <ORen> that happened at 17:22
22:33:36 <FireFly> Oh, never mind, I see you got it right after a while
22:33:45 <fizzie> FireFly: "The module system also allows installing multiple versions", and yes.
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22:34:33 <elliott> fizzie: I like how the word your wife wants to say in #esoteric is just "fungot".
22:34:33 <fungot> elliott: you said " mycorand works" soon after pasting it after module imports should work). i did not intend quine statement by itself to see if a socket read would block or not...
22:34:36 <elliott> why say anything else in #esoteric.
22:38:01 <fizzie> Quite so. Though I think it was in response to my unsuccessful attempts.
22:39:22 <ORen> I'll allow host program to "register" new operations
22:39:57 <ORen> before calling interpreter
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22:52:04 <Sgeo> An April Fools' Day article about Magic The Gathering detailed a supposed ultimate deck that "never allows your opponent to deal lethal damage" and "ends games quickly". It actually consisted entirely of ways to trigger a "you automatically lose" condition.
22:52:08 * Sgeo wants to read this
22:55:56 <shachaf> Sgeo: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fastest-turn-1-kill-guaranteed/
22:57:44 <shachaf> But I think there are some decks that will be able to deal lethal damage before you have a chance to lose.
23:00:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[GridScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41251&oldid=41249 * SuperJedi224 * (+259) /* Command Summary */
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23:16:47 <Taneb> I think I'll try and enter the IOCCC next year
23:17:30 <Taneb> I have the advantage that I'm terrible at C so most of my C is obfuscated
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23:18:55 <shachaf> Taneb: you should enter the underhanded c code contest instead
23:19:10 <Taneb> shachaf, that makes me feel guilty
23:19:24 <shachaf> ok, you should enter it in addition
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23:33:11 <shachaf> Taneb: instead of going to spain you could go to california
23:33:25 <Taneb> I was thinking maybe Hampshire
23:33:39 <Taneb> Or Kent! I know people in Kent!
23:35:30 <Taneb> What's even in New Hampshire
23:36:01 <Taneb> I'm British, I can find elves anywhere.
23:36:11 <Taneb> I've even been accused of being an elf myself
23:36:19 <Taneb> ion, I thought he was in Cornwall
23:36:31 <Taneb> Dulnes, I don't think it is my birthday
23:36:56 <Dulnes> Im obviously talking to your alternate universe self
23:37:00 -!- Oren has joined.
23:37:13 <Taneb> I don't think it is my alternate universe self's birthday either
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23:39:00 <Dulnes> Also why are perl bots so annoying to make
23:39:00 <Taneb> Well, I woke up about 6 hours ago
23:39:22 <Sgeo> Elves are terrific, they beget terror
23:39:40 <oerjan> Taneb: 5 hours here hth
23:39:54 <Oren> terry pratchett - lords and ladies
23:39:59 <Taneb> I don't think time zones work like that
23:40:13 <oerjan> i don't work like time zones indeed
23:40:52 <Taneb> Of course, I woke up at four simultaneous times in a single rotation of the time cube
23:41:36 <Taneb> Time Cube does have some good advice in it
23:41:43 <Taneb> "Seek Awesome Lectures" for example
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23:42:42 <Taneb> scoofy, it gets a lot of things wrong, such as the number of faces on a cube
23:42:57 <nys> hey i never realized that
23:43:07 <scoofy> does he think a cube has 4 faces?
23:43:31 <oerjan> well does he say the time cube is 3-dimensional, otherwise there are many options
23:44:06 <oerjan> hypercubes would have 2d faces
23:44:37 <Dulnes> @{[ $text =~ /\b[A-Z]+\b/g ]} >3; replace + with {2,}
23:44:55 <oerjan> trying to make sense of time cube somehow would be a bit like trying to implement TURKEY BOMB, no?
23:45:12 <Taneb> http://timecube.com/TimeCube_com_newpicture_EarthCube.jpg
23:45:29 <Oren> TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game
23:45:40 <Oren> I parsed that totally wrong
23:45:51 <oerjan> Oren: ARGH CANNOT UNSEE
23:45:57 <Oren> they are using the latin word cum but I read it as....
23:46:04 <oerjan> (mind you, i'm not really upset)
23:46:25 <oerjan> DON'T EXPLAIN THE JOKE
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23:47:26 <Taneb> oerjan, where is that from?
23:47:32 <fizzie> oerjan: There's a locally famous Finnish person with a somewhat similar theory about how everything is made out of ether vortices, he spends time selling his self-published books about it at universities and such.
23:47:42 <Oren> https://github.com/catseye/Specs-on-Spec/blob/master/turkey-bomb/turkey-bomb.markdown
23:47:53 <Oren> from here, firstline
23:47:55 <fizzie> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kauko_Nieminen.jpg
23:48:54 <elliott> I don't think the TURKEY BOMB rules preclude using cum as the drink
23:49:14 <Oren> ((programming language) cum (drinking game))
23:49:23 <elliott> yes. I know. I'm just saying.
23:49:38 <nys> The women in these men's lives clearly had NO idea what was going on the the back yard. Free-range kids and turkey frying just DONT go together.
23:49:41 <Oren> not (programming language ((cum drinking) game))
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23:52:00 <Oren> this is why formal grammars are important
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23:53:38 <Dulnes> Stop talking about this
23:53:45 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:53:45 <Oren> TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game
23:53:47 <elliott> what's wrong with cum drinking
23:54:09 <Oren> high in protein
23:54:34 <Oren> good for your gainz
23:54:46 <Dulnes> Also this is off topic
23:54:53 <Oren> TURKEY BOMB, the first known programming-language-cum-drinking-game
23:54:55 <Dulnes> What if a new guy came in and saw
23:55:16 <Taneb> `quote read the bible
23:55:18 <HackEgo> 407) <Taneb> So... God has jizzed on everything? <oklopol> have you even READ the bible?
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23:56:19 <Oren> The first time I went on here we were discussing someithing worse
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23:56:29 <Dulnes> I have a list of files with mmddyy_nnnnn format
23:56:41 <Dulnes> What were you discussing
23:56:54 <Oren> necrophilia iirc
23:57:37 <Oren> look in the logs for three days ago
23:57:46 <Oren> it shouldbe there
23:58:11 <Taneb> mmddyy? You monster
23:59:08 <Oren> and I came on here and that was the first topic
23:59:13 <Dulnes> How do I find the file with highest number in postfix "nnnnn" using perl
23:59:29 <Oren> par for the course on the internet of course
23:59:59 <Dulnes> I think some one set that as topic