00:02:42 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:16:25 -!- idris-bot has joined. 00:16:31 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:18:36 -!- |S} has changed nick to S1. 00:35:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:40:08 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 00:49:29 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 00:50:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:51:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:51:22 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 00:54:12 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:55:48 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 01:00:43 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:01:09 I made up a file on my computer with some new pokemon cards I have made up now. 01:06:55 HEAVY GRAVITY STADIUM = All resistance to { # } is ignored. 01:07:11 SUPER IMPOSTER PROFESSOR OAK = Discard an energy card attached to one of your pokemons in order to cause opponent to shuffle his hand into his draw pile and draw ten cards. 01:07:31 COMPACT GARBAGE = Select you or opponent; all cards in his trash will get lost. 01:12:09 -!- vanila has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:30:37 http://sprunge.us/iRcT wonder what exactly it generated there 01:30:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:41:17 Rustaceans seem very good at bikeshedding the word 'unsafe' 01:42:22 Sgeo, oh? 01:42:55 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/2ly7q8/two_hours_after_rust/clzmbpc 01:43:02 Not the first time a similar conversation has occurred 01:43:47 Heh 01:44:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:45:19 I was actually about to try and do some Rust again 01:46:12 I'm half considering just waiting for 1.0 before doing anything 01:46:22 But I do have a use case... kind of... 01:46:30 Oh? 01:46:38 Want to do some loops regarding 32 bit floats 01:47:00 Figure that performance probably helps. Probably not -that- significantly though 01:47:33 Also wrapping C libraries... maybe. For that though it might be better to wait for unboxed closures to land, the library in question is callback intensive 01:47:48 Would be nice if Rust had a real REPL 01:48:14 Also there's already a C# wrapper for that library so why am I bothering 01:48:31 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:49:35 Sgeo: what does "unsafe" do? 01:50:22 unsafe blocks allow using 'unsafe' functions, and a few other things that the Rust compiler cannot verify is safe in particular ways. unsafe functions can also do those things but can only be used from unsafe blocks. 01:50:50 (incl. dereferencing raw pointers and bypassing the type system ala unsafeCoerce) 01:51:01 Well, the latter is a specific unsafe function 01:52:18 haha ok 01:52:31 oerjan: Is the domino thing your golf problem? the last one is quite hard... 01:52:46 (on paper) 01:53:51 int-e: nope 01:54:03 although i have played the puzzle 01:54:20 (you could say it's in my tatham puzzle rotation) 01:55:31 * oerjan tries the last one 01:57:55 what was the first thing you ever did in code 01:58:46 the first thing i remember is writing complex arithmetic in BASIC. without a computer. 01:59:30 (my dad had a textbook, but no computer at home to go with it. this was approximately 1981 or so.) 02:00:08 oerjan: (I had to verify that the solutions are unique. They are. So there's a slight chance that one can outperform the data compression approach by an honest search.) 02:00:08 Re earlier paste, heh; what it does is it completely omits the function epilogue from main: http://sprunge.us/Jcib 02:00:12 -!- ^v has joined. 02:00:45 int-e: i was thinking of a search yeah 02:01:03 although you're probably right that it's hard to beat compression. 02:01:40 Leapfrogging has had relatively little attention. 02:01:56 you think so? 02:02:15 it has? i thought all the haskellers except me were improving it constantly. 02:02:27 (i have no idea how they're doing it :P) 02:02:28 Well, I mean, language-wise. 02:02:37 Only 8 languages in there. 02:02:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:02:58 ah, well the dc folks cannot compete, for example 02:03:17 I was thinking of doing it in dc, actually. 02:03:27 how are you hoping to do the parsing? 02:03:33 oh wait 02:03:35 They're just numbers. 02:03:40 dc can do numbers. 02:03:44 sorry, I was looking at the output, not thinking 02:04:05 It would end up pretty long, I think. 02:04:16 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 02:04:16 And probably not very interesting. 02:04:46 What was the most complex thing you've ever created in code 02:04:50 I won't try, I've had a hard enough time with Wow 02:05:18 I'm pretty surprised at how short the dc Wow is. 02:05:55 (And I'm a bit afraid that tails is just missing an easy trick for saving two characters.) 02:07:23 sonic boom is probably the worst game ive ever seen 02:07:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:08:44 collision detection doesnt activate for 6.23 seconds and when it does it makes the most ungodly noise 02:09:29 -!- copumpkin has joined. 02:09:53 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:10:31 `toroman 400 02:10:32 CD 02:10:55 k 02:13:17 `fromroman CX 02:13:18 110 02:14:07 int-e: that last dominosa problem was no problem for my usual methods. but then the real puzzles are larger. 02:15:29 ok 02:18:02 the initial stage of the method is mostly "search for dominoes that only exist in one place", though, so may take a while if unlucky. 02:18:25 (if that really fails, _then_ i have to get clever, but it didn't for this one.) 02:19:27 really... 02:19:49 oh and also "exist in two places but those share part of their border", that got me the first hit here. 02:20:07 ok, I have no practice at all... 02:20:08 namely 1-1 02:20:39 i think i played dominosa several time before i had the epiphany of how to do it more efficiently. 02:20:55 *times 02:21:51 and also once you've found something, it's important to mark what else that excludes. 02:22:24 tatham's puzzle allows you to insert marks where you know there is a border. 02:22:27 yeah, I got that. I missed that the 11 are right next to a corner. 02:22:46 ah 02:23:35 so I started with 21 22 in opposite corners 02:24:07 and after that i found 1-4 by brute searching, and that started closing off options. 02:24:28 I had to backtrack twice, I think. 02:24:37 (well, branch twice) 02:24:46 ah and that wouldn't have worked unless you found the 0-4 corner first, i guess. 02:25:57 that 21 22 thing would have been important if nothing simpler had worked, i guess. 02:26:49 it would have allowed finding the 2-4 next 02:27:15 I'm no longer trying to follow btw 02:28:42 well i mean, since you had 21 22 in opposite corners, that means 21 and 22 are both spoken for there. and it so happens that that excludes a couple of 1-2's elsewhere, giving you enough of the border of the 2-4 to place it. 02:28:49 Who is it here that has a gopher page? 02:28:56 MDude: zzo38 02:29:38 -!- adu has joined. 02:31:42 one thing i've found is that it's best to start searching for the double ones first: 00 11 etc. 02:33:15 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 02:33:51 because if you find 00, it gives a better chance of finding unique things involving 0's later. 02:36:26 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:36:31 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 02:40:46 what is the percentage of tripping over a rope and exploding into flame 02:41:42 depends whether the rope is next to a lava pit. 02:42:06 no just like 02:42:12 spontaneous 02:42:31 pretty close to 0, i assume. 02:42:31 im going with .03 % 02:43:28 all my code is very messy 02:43:36 but it gets its job done 02:43:38 I don't often see ropes in my day to day life 02:43:41 i think that is a very high estimate. 02:43:54 And I have never to my knowledge exploded into flame 02:44:00 0.0000000000000000003.33% 02:44:09 better? 02:44:11 Taneb: not you either? and here i thought i was the only one! 02:44:22 oerjan, we should start a support group 02:44:26 Dulnes: more plausible. 02:45:18 in fact i'd be willing to think it's higher than that. world population and all. 02:45:28 indeed 02:45:30 well... 02:45:39 There aren't that many ropes lying about 02:45:51 Maybe if you lived in a port city or something 02:45:54 Or a campsite 02:45:58 you still need some way to spontaneously combust without a fire to ignite you. 02:46:05 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:48:00 Taneb: i am thinking some kind of cordon. 02:49:13 um i would guess 02:49:25 if you were to be accelerated in someway 02:49:38 bypassing your terninal velocity 02:49:45 terminal* 02:49:58 and just ignite your blood 02:50:23 i doubt blood is the first thing to ignite in your body. 02:50:30 mm 02:50:33 more likely, clothes. 02:50:58 if you hadnt any clothing? 02:51:38 hair, possibly. 02:51:46 hair spray! 02:51:55 Oh thats true 02:52:42 well you know how your blood vaporises when you are electricity 02:52:56 electricuted 02:53:21 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 02:53:26 mmm a rope near an electrical plant 02:53:49 im very weird 02:55:58 "If SHC is a real phenomenon (and not the result of an elderly or infirm person being too close to a flame source), why doesn’t it happen more often? There are 5 billion (editor's note: as of 2011) people in the world, and yet we don’t see reports of people bursting into flame while walking down the street, attending football games, or sipping a coffee at a local Starbucks." 02:56:06 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 02:57:12 mmm yes but this rope scenario is in of course theory oerjan 02:57:22 Dulnes: [citation needed] on that blood vaporising 02:58:56 i'm glad i'm a biologist, so i can say things like what the fuck are you even talking about 02:59:13 i know i know 02:59:38 plenty of weird random things happen to bodies, like heart attacks! be satisfied with these deaths, you monsters 02:59:38 well i was having very imaginative brain farts yesterday 02:59:51 Bike: are you a mad biologist who can do the necessary experiments to get to the bottom of this twh 03:00:05 like what would liquid entropy taste like 03:00:22 Dulnes: green hth 03:00:49 * oerjan is reminded of delirium from sandman 03:01:00 but would they sleep furiously? 03:01:03 oh my friends name us deliriun 03:01:06 this experiment doesn't even seem very mad. bleed a cow for a while, then get a bunsen burner. easy. i could probably even get iacuc approval, except it's probably been done already 03:01:11 delirium 03:01:12 wouldn't 'tasting like something' be doing work? 03:01:33 again 03:01:40 imaginative brain farts 03:01:50 liquid light 03:02:00 stringing words together isn't that imaginative, yo 03:02:22 Bike: liquid burn 03:02:48 AndoDaan: only if irreversible hth 03:02:54 unless you go indetail 03:03:52 And maybe it's my tongue doing the work. 03:03:55 like what happens if you touch photons that are super condensed to the point where the laws of the universe are like fuck it why not have liquidized light 03:04:47 -!- hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:04:51 plasma maybe. 03:05:20 nah just light 03:05:27 the stuff u see 03:05:51 if you condense light enough you get a "normal" black hole afaiu 03:05:56 that can bump into other light and make matter, if dense enough 03:05:59 you need a lot, though. 03:06:10 like, more than four 03:06:18 definitely. 03:07:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:08:06 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz_(astrophysics) 03:10:14 -!- copumpkin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:11:19 could one collapse the space around a blackhole? 03:12:09 is in a skype with friends 03:12:19 like if i had a wee little black hole in my room, and i managed to direct light (a lot of light) around it, could could i create an outher shell black hole? 03:12:24 please help me discuss this with them 03:13:40 AndoDaan: no hth 03:13:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:13:51 apparently no you cant according to my friend 03:15:56 uh new topic 03:16:14 did you guys hear about the hard light thing 03:16:38 if i did i forgot 03:17:01 ok so they condensed the light or something 03:17:08 if it's recently, well i haven't been keeping up with r/physics 03:17:08 and it was solidified 03:17:25 but it wasnt really solid 03:17:44 hm it vaguely rings a bell, this was probably inside some material 03:17:49 it was just alot of light moving around a set point 03:18:03 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 03:21:22 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:40:55 Now I have 34 chapters, 58 sessions, and 57 footnotes. 03:45:05 How does anything go in a black hole if it can't get out? 03:45:34 Can antimatter get out of a black hole, if it bahaves like regular matter going in reverse time? 03:45:57 MDude: no. because gravitation is symmetric under time reversal. 03:46:34 But black holes can evaportat with a little trick. 03:46:41 evaporate. 03:46:45 That only answers the second question, unless you're saying things can't go in lack holes. 03:46:59 *black 03:47:19 what you could have in theory is a _white_ hole, from which things can _only_ get out. but we don't know of a way to produce them, and haven't found any. 03:47:41 I imagine they would empty fairly quickly. 03:48:06 it would never go in if it has reverse time properties 03:48:09 how are white holes even supposed to work? 03:48:10 well they would essentially be black holes time reversed 03:48:17 learning physics has really ruined my sci-fi abilities. 03:49:07 because if the antimatter goes in 03:49:07 I guess it doesn't tend to happen due to being very un-entropic. 03:49:28 it goes back out because of reverse time 03:49:43 Bike: well they are a mathematical solution, but probably thermodynamics doesn't allow them to be formed in the first place. 03:50:03 you'd essentially have to drop hawking radiation into a spot... 03:50:05 but since nothing can escape it 03:50:19 then antimatter would never enter 03:50:31 because its reverse 03:50:41 Physics scares me 03:50:50 and not forward which goes infinite 03:51:01 Most actual science scares me 03:51:09 MDude: i assume if a white hole existed, it wouldn't _always_ be spewing out matter, in the same way a _black_ hole isn't _always_ swallowing something. 03:51:19 I like to stay firmly in the region of things that are definitely true and hence useless 03:51:33 physics only makes sense locally. here, let me tell you about all the dude ants dudeing about on this apple 03:52:25 no because 03:52:33 if there are white holes 03:52:36 > (.) flip const join (+) () 12 03:52:37 24 03:52:50 > 12 + 12 03:52:51 24 03:52:58 it woukd have to swallow stuff to spew it out 03:53:20 or the second way its just reverse gravitational force 03:53:32 > (<*>) pure (+) 12 03:53:34 12 03:53:34 the Kinda Mediocre Nuclear Force 03:53:37 that would leave large holes in the universe 03:53:41 if it had stuff within region before it was form it would have fuel to spue out. 03:53:46 > 12 03:53:46 what if 03:53:47 12 03:53:53 as you can see, i'm an efficient programmer. 03:53:53 it's region* 03:54:02 its* 03:54:07 the begining of the universe was a white hole in theory 03:54:14 'its 03:54:17 and it pushed it outwards at highspeed 03:54:25 'tits 03:54:25 -!- ZombieAlive has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:54:32 it is* 03:54:42 it isn't 03:54:57 Dark energy... what's that all about, aye. 03:54:59 > 1244 + 555 03:55:00 1799 03:55:04 Dulnes: really you are not thinking precisely enough for this, but one hint: if you play a ball thrown through the air backwards, it still looks like a ball thrown through the air. reversing time does not change what gravitation does. 03:55:05 oh mai 03:55:08 i know that number. 03:55:17 *play a video of a ball 03:55:19 oh 03:55:30 sorry i wasnt thinking 03:55:38 lol nvm weird topic 03:55:44 Dark energy is for super villains to charge purple crystals. 03:56:00 didnt this start with liquid light creating black holes 03:56:07 MDude, I'm a beginner supervillain, where can I found out more about these purple crystals? 03:57:53 i'll sell you purple crystals for $1000/pound, dawg. 03:58:01 A minute of using a search engine got me nothing. 03:58:23 Half Life Wiki has uses of dark energy by a villain, though. 03:58:56 They use it for bouncy balls that tend to explode. 03:59:04 Bike, I'm a low-budget beginning supervillain 03:59:15 half life wiki is my favorite anime 03:59:24 Taneb: i also offer loans with quite reasonable deferral times 03:59:53 -!- not^v has joined. 04:00:07 my favorite anime.gif is a set of ink blots I made out of random data from random.org 04:00:42 * oerjan used to collect purple stones when he was tiny 04:01:02 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 04:02:16 oerjan, I'm imagining a tiny adult hauling purple rocks as big as himself around 04:02:19 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:02:37 Taneb: don't listen to Bike btw, his deferral times involve time dilation 04:02:49 and possibly travelling into black holes 04:03:00 can it do times 04:03:28 ooh I have a great idea 04:03:34 we should add a black hole to dbefunge 04:03:37 *befunge 04:03:40 I don't have to sit here and just take what is hypothetically slander, oerjan. 04:03:46 Taneb: also, not very accurate imagination 04:03:58 v 04:04:00 > < 04:04:01 ^ 04:04:01 :1:1: parse error on input ‘<’ 04:04:02 done 04:04:12 nononono 04:04:14 a black hole in a data sequence 04:04:17 I mean it exerts gravity on the IP 04:04:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:04:34 > let x = x in x -- haskell black hole 04:04:35 several things that aren't black holes exert gravitational force, such as your mother 04:04:38 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 04:04:43 and executing the black hole randomly transports the IP to some random point in the time and space of the fungespace 04:06:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gravity i'm not sure if EFE are uncomputable in the same way, hrm 04:08:24 Bike: omg that mom joke 04:11:31 it was uninspired. 04:21:03 new topic 04:22:19 -!- oerjan has set topic: The black hole of programming madness | BF Joust scoring poll: http://goo.gl/02KE0Y | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 04:23:03 -!- oerjan has set topic: The black hole of programming madness, or was it the other way around | BF Joust scoring poll: http://goo.gl/02KE0Y | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 04:35:14 -!- adu has joined. 04:36:37 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:48:23 guys i just made a thing that reads webbrowser cookies on a phone through the IP address and lets me find out peoples accounts still working on the thing that auto connects to said servers port 04:48:39 im so proud of myself :0 04:49:33 until i have to type un manually the name of the port 04:49:49 until i get a auto snooper 04:50:06 im doin things manually 04:50:33 I assume snooper means something other than -chat client that connects to WormNET- 04:51:09 yuh 04:51:31 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:51:34 kinda like a password sniffer 04:51:56 which im purposely leaving out of g 04:52:07 the code* 04:56:48 its actually very short 05:05:33 I should go to bed at some point 05:06:56 isn't it five am 05:07:27 it's nine pm hth 05:08:02 9:07 pm for me 05:08:22 I'm in a more sensible time zone 05:08:24 and do you sleep? no. exactly 05:08:28 It's 5 am here 05:08:32 sounds like our time zones are seven minutes apart 05:08:38 mmmm 05:08:45 >_> 05:08:54 yep it's a bit after midnight 05:08:56 oh, now they're eight minutes apart 05:09:02 hue 05:09:13 Yeah, I'm in UTC+7minutes 05:09:19 do u live in Washington 05:09:44 I used to live 30 miles from a Washington 05:10:41 7 minutes away 05:10:46 hmmmmm 05:11:36 Not that Washington 05:11:42 Or that one 05:12:33 Washington state 05:12:39 not DC 05:12:41 Not that Washington 05:12:44 Or that one 05:13:01 idk wot u mean 05:13:24 do we really need the scoring poll still? 05:13:28 Washington, Tyne and Wear 05:13:28 -!- ^v has joined. 05:13:29 UK 05:13:38 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:13:40 i mean, fizzie just went ahead and implemented all of them :P 05:14:38 ohhh 05:14:47 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 05:15:53 -!- quintopia has set topic: The black hole of programming madness, or was it the other way around | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 05:17:39 it stands to reason that that washington guy had to get his name from somewhere other than the places that were named for him. 05:18:32 maybe he was just descended from a washing machine. 05:18:58 :T 05:28:01 i love skypr 05:28:06 skype 05:28:26 its probably the most intrusive app ive come acrosd 05:28:34 across* 05:29:05 so much.power over the ppl on my contact list 05:34:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Et cetera). 05:45:12 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:50:30 "skypr" sounds like a skype usr. 05:52:33 http://animestuckneko.tumblr.com/image/102852169768 finally got around to mowing the lawn 05:58:41 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 06:01:35 `slist 06:01:36 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:08:42 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:18:53 I play this Dungeons&Dragons game, and if I find any beholders in this town, then I have two things that I can use to help in such a case: [1] Box of anti-magic fields [2] Holy symbol of Gxxyuxihuvxi 06:24:28 What's a beholder? 06:25:53 One of the kind of monsters in the game 06:26:17 It is involving ten small eyes can cast various spells, one big eye to make anti-magic field 06:26:37 AndoDaan: Did you read this level20.tex texts? 06:27:25 Such thing will explain various stuff 06:28:20 horsantula 06:28:41 I've only played DandD once years ago. One of the best gaming experience of my life 06:29:13 ive never played it 06:29:20 elaborate 06:29:34 You can read it, then. And then learn how I am playing such Dungeons&Dragons game. 06:29:42 "Aventure!" 06:30:23 yiss 06:30:32 anyways what do? 06:30:44 not many topics now 06:31:13 Read http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex there I typed a story by recording all of the Dungeons&Dragons game. 06:31:25 is level20.tex suppose to be a weblink? 06:31:32 oh, nvm thx 06:31:36 uh 06:31:42 thank you 06:31:50 but first before i read 06:32:00 what is Dungeon and dragons 06:32:02 AndoDaan: It is supposed to be a Plain TeX document. 06:32:28 If you want to compile it by yourself, you will also need a file dungeonsrecording.tex which is in the same directory. 06:32:56 i s 06:33:16 ignore that hit enter instead of Back space 06:33:24 The story writing is yours? 06:33:29 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:33:30 AndoDaan: Yes. 06:34:29 Anything with a percentage sign is a source comment; it won't render it or anything afterward. The command \note will become a footnote when rendered. Just to explain its working a bit. 06:35:29 thankz 06:36:52 so what are you up to zzo38 06:38:27 Now I work on a program to convert Z-machine picture formats. 06:39:49 Shops are finally open. bbl 06:40:05 OK 06:51:51 Do you know Pokemon Card playing? 06:53:47 yuh 06:54:14 but before that i have to tell u something 06:54:33 OK, what do you like to tell me? 06:54:37 Betty white is older than sliced bread 06:54:56 I do not understand. 06:55:40 betty white was born in 1922 sliced bread was invented in 1928 06:55:58 O, OK. I don't know who is Betty White, but OK 06:56:09 a very old actress 06:56:20 OK, now I know 06:56:42 anyways, As you were saying? 06:56:58 I made up many puzzles involving Pokemon Card, as well as some new cards, and a few other things 06:57:32 oh? 06:58:00 It can be found in directory http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon_card/ where puzzle.1 up to puzzle.5 are puzzle games, terminology.txt explains some terminology, newcards.txt is new cards I have made up (the ($1) and so on don't have a name yet), 59eye1mewtwo.txt is a document about the "59 eye + 1 Mewtwo" deck. 06:58:33 Did you make up any new pokemon cards too? 06:59:23 not yet actually 06:59:44 ill get on that tommorow 07:01:18 I have invented a deck which is much more terrible than a "59 eye + 1 Mewtwo" deck, but nevertheless is 100% guaranteed to beat a "59 eye + 1 Mewtwo" deck. 07:01:35 This is very well made 07:02:21 Ill save this to my todo module 07:02:28 and get on it later 07:03:45 What is your opinion of some of these new card, puzzles, etc? Can you figure out any of them, or is it difficult? 07:04:02 still looking 07:04:59 Maybe some of the names isn't very good I don't quite know 07:05:41 mmm I dont know what to.make of proffesor black 07:06:20 but anyways im out 07:06:28 Goodnight 07:06:49 OK, goodnight 07:10:31 Back. Don't think I've ever compiled Tex before. Another learning oppertunity. 07:12:23 AndoDaan: Simply run the program "tex" on your computer; at the "**" prompt you type in the filename. Most implementations also allow specifying the filename as a command-line parameter. 07:13:26 The result will be a "dvi" file. (You can also download a precompiled DVI; it is called level20.dvi and is in the same directory.) DVI is a device-independent format for printing; it can be previewed directly, or converted into other formats such as PCL, PDF, PNG, DjVu, or whatever format your printer uses. 07:13:30 I think I first have to install an implementation. 07:13:54 going with miktex 07:13:56 Yes, you would need to. Even to use the DVI, you need fonts; a TeX installation will include the necessary fonts. 07:14:10 Yes, MiKTeX will do and is what I have. 07:14:33 Google never stears me wrong. 07:15:35 The previewer in MiKTeX is called "yap", so you can use that to open the DVI. 07:16:22 Okay. (dl and installing usually takes a while for this old laptop) 07:17:00 Does your D&D group play in person or online? 07:17:46 In person 07:18:28 Must be a good group, seems like a big campaigne to take on. 07:18:57 (I'm skimming the raw tex) 07:20:46 Why aren't slaves ever named Thomas... or Bob. It's always something like "Kjugobe" 07:21:39 Well, Kjugobe is my character, and the name is made up by random 07:22:04 Slaves probably can be named Thomas or Bob, but there is nobody of these names in this story (yet). 07:22:43 stupid joke, sorry. :p 07:23:33 wow, it started in 3 07:23:38 My brother's character is named Also (this causes grammatical confusion sometimes). 07:23:39 in 2011 07:23:55 I have a page about it in All The Tropes wiki. 07:24:19 "Annyong" 07:25:43 Which means what? 07:26:38 Oh, sorry. "Also" just reminded me of Annyong means hello running gag in Arrested Development. 07:29:32 brb 07:32:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:35:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:36:52 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:40:18 http://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/User:Zzo38/level20.tex 08:17:16 > floor (250 / (40 * (25 % 18))) `const` "Sgeo" 08:17:17 4 08:17:54 ty 08:18:01 I should sleep 08:18:30 > "a" `const` "b" 08:18:32 "a" 08:24:04 fizzie: K. I'll fix it. 08:25:19 > "a" `const` "b" `const` "c" 08:25:21 "a" 08:26:12 @tell AndoDaan s is "set var" and g is "get var" 08:26:12 Consider it noted. 08:26:25 > "a" `const` ("b" `const` "c") == ("a" `const` "b") `const` "c" 08:26:26 True 08:27:00 @tell AndoDaan also {g1} doesn't work because Blocks aren't evaluated UNTIL you call eval. You can use |[g1]| though. |[ and ]| are like { } except stuff in between is evaled. 08:27:00 Consider it noted. 08:27:20 !blsq 9s0 |[g0]| 08:27:20 | {9} 08:27:36 ohai 08:27:37 Const is associative. It lacks a left unit to make monoid. 08:28:16 hmm, I should s/Const/const/ 08:28:23 It is a monoid on ()! 08:28:25 !blsq 9s0|[g0g0?*|["hi"]|]| 08:28:25 | {81 {"hi"}} 08:28:34 Because Now It Looks Like A Data Or Type Constructor. 08:28:58 Jafet: But only if you take a relaxed view about bottoms. 08:29:38 `seq` is a proper monoid on (). 08:30:18 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:36:31 int-e: well, if you believe Reader is a monad... 08:44:19 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:16:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:19:20 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/programmers-price *cries* 09:22:43 "Scopely, a mobile-game publishing company, rewards a new hire—or anyone who can deliver one—with eleven thousand dollars wrapped in bacon, an oil portrait of himself, and a harpoon gun." we're doomed 09:39:23 -!- weissschloss has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:41:42 -!- weissschloss has joined. 09:42:06 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:02:27 -!- mihow has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:03:09 Hm, quartz spam. 10:03:30 "The mainly products of the factory are optical quartz glass, opaque quartz blanks,quartz substrate, quartz apparatus, quartz crystal singing bowls, quartz tuning forks, quartz rod, twin born quartz tube, quartz lamp, quartz heating elements, quartz tube and so on." 10:03:34 They're all about the quartz. 10:04:01 Since this is the day of targeted advertisement I conclude you like quartz. 10:04:10 It looks like everything I knew about the quartz reproductive cycle has been wrong 10:04:21 -!- mihow has joined. 10:04:39 Technically, it was sent to the TI-86 robotfindskitten role address. 10:04:53 Don't know how they've associated that with quartz exactly. 10:07:29 Through a new machine-learning algorithm. 10:15:06 -!- b_jonas has joined. 10:15:54 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: BBL). 10:29:27 fizzie: Nice @Leapfrogging 10:34:54 I kinda whish Java had destructors 10:36:24 (not that silly finalize thing) 10:38:52 Perhaps you could emulate them with 'finally' blocks generated by processing your source with m4 and suitable macros, in what would be the pinnacle of elegance. 10:40:21 -!- weissschloss has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 10:40:48 They do have the try-with thing these days, isn't that kind of. 10:42:39 -!- weissschloss has joined. 10:44:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:47:39 try-with? 10:51:15 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:52:16 elliott: try-with statements 10:52:17 like 10:52:38 try(conn = jdbc.getConnection();) { //blabla } catch(Exception e) { //blabla } 10:52:51 which will close connection afterwards 10:53:17 fizzie: it's kinda that. 10:53:33 although I'd prefer something like...hm... 10:53:33 It works when the type in question implements java.lang.AutoCloseable. 10:53:45 autoclose Connection conn = jdbc.getConnection(); 10:53:58 elliott: maybe you want python-like with blocks? 10:54:01 where autoclose instructs the compiler to call close on connection when the method returns or throws 10:54:05 so it's like Python's with 10:54:20 b_jonas: I don't wan tanything, I was just asking what the try-with fizzie mentioned was :) 10:54:28 s/ ta/t a/ 10:54:38 elliott: There's no "enter" method, just the "exit" (close), but quite like. 10:55:19 * elliott nods 10:55:28 what's the use of the enter method anyway? 10:56:40 elliott: a possible use is that a mutex could have an enter method that locks that mutex, so the enter method can have different semantics than just creating that object 10:56:47 it's syntax convenience 10:57:10 the mutex object and the lock object aren't the same 10:57:35 fair enough 10:57:49 python also has proper c++-like destructors with reference counting too, but this is more explicit 10:58:44 and more compatible with a possible non-refcounting implementation 10:58:51 In the Java-7+ land, you could write explicitly try(Lock uselessNameHere = new Lock(mutex)) { ... } in which case the constructor of the Lock would be the enter method, though. 10:59:25 Or perhaps mutex.lock(). 10:59:31 fizzie: sure, that's the C++ way 10:59:41 creating a separate lock object 10:59:54 like { std::unique_lock mylock(somemutex); ... } 11:00:21 b_jonas: there's a perversity about how Python deals with the disadvantages of reference counting, but refuses to exploit its advantages because hey what about Jython 11:01:30 elliott: I don't think that's really the reason. it's just that they insist on extra-readable code, which is why they provide "with" because it's easier to see a "with" than to see which objects have a semantically significant destructor 11:01:49 fair 11:01:57 so are they going to use "with" to allocate memory too? :p 11:06:51 elliott: no 11:07:10 elliott: memory can be garbage-collected, which doesn't count as observable behaviour 11:07:17 the garbage-collection can be delayed 11:07:35 b_jonas: sure but you can view closing files the samew ay 11:07:37 *same way 11:07:38 whereas closing a file or unlocking a mutex can be an observable and important side effect that you have to do immediately 11:07:50 it's just a question of what level you view things at 11:07:53 sure, sometimes closing files can be delayed, and sometimes even freeing a mutex can be delayed 11:07:59 certainly not freeing memory can hold up resources 11:08:06 just like not closing a file 11:08:21 yeah, I guess if you allocate so much memory that you _need_ it to be freed at a particular point in the code, you could with(mmap(...)) or something 11:08:33 or just put a strategically-placed "del" 11:09:04 point is, it can have effects anywhere between worse performance and your code not working; same for files. mutexes are much easier to argue as an application logic thing, admittedly 11:09:19 in the end it's just a sliding scale where we make the trade-off of manual but precise vs. automatic but imperfect resource management 11:09:25 sure 11:26:42 -!- boily has joined. 12:00:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:26:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ICONIC CHICKEN). 12:42:51 !blsq r0 12:42:51 | ERROR: Unknown command: (r0)! 12:42:53 hm 12:42:57 !blsq ?_ 12:42:58 | "I have 358 non-special builtins!" 12:43:03 1.7.3 hat 343 12:43:16 1.7.4dev as of now has 380 13:04:59 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:11:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:24:01 Hehe 13:24:26 Last night, before I went to bed, I had an idea, so I wrote it down on a piece of paper so I wouldn't forget it 13:24:53 "Data.Group.Homomorphism?" was what I wrote 13:25:00 And I left it on the living room table 13:25:12 One of my housemates has written "No." underneath 13:25:35 I would have added "and a glas of milk please" 13:27:19 I drank so many glasses of milk last night... 13:29:09 That sounds like an odd thing to brag about but ok... 13:29:53 I actually rarely drink milk 13:30:13 It's less bragging, closer to regret 13:30:25 I drink too much milk :( 13:30:27 Couldn't sleep? 13:31:11 Yeah 13:31:18 Went to bed after 5 AM 13:31:20 I think at certain times I lay hours in bed thinking I'm sleeping and dreaming but I'm actually awake 13:31:28 [wiki] [[Talk:Malbolge]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41020&oldid=39476 * TomPN * (+192) 13:31:50 I also had a weird dream... 13:31:59 It had Muse and George R. R. Martin in it 13:34:30 But waking up at 20 past 1 is great when you have lectures at half 10 and half 11 13:39:15 01:20am? 13:39:24 oh 13:39:31 you went to bed at 5 AM o_O 13:40:08 please, Taneb has nothing on my sleep 13:41:18 "The programming hole of black madness"? 13:41:26 "The black programming of hole madness"? 13:55:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:57:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:03:55 The black hole mattress of sound sleep. 14:09:52 I like black madness. 14:10:17 `learn_append mroman He also likes black madness. 14:10:20 Learned 'mroman': mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW) He also likes black madness. 14:11:49 `run sed -i 's/ He/. He/' wisdom/mroman 14:11:51 No output. 14:13:14 `? mroman 14:13:15 mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. 14:16:24 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 14:22:23 Today I recommended just doubling the password instead of using salts. 14:22:49 i.e. h'(p) = h(p+p) instead of h'(p) = h(salt+p) 14:23:05 It doubles your password security. 14:23:09 ic 14:24:10 at least doubles. 14:24:19 Because the attacker doesn't know the salt this way! 14:24:32 storing the salt in plaintext is giving it to the attacker for free 14:24:47 this is some weak trolling :p 14:25:04 elliott: But the idea is somewhat decent. 14:25:35 non-disclosed salts make it harder to crack the password. 14:26:07 I think I've had enough password security discussions with you for a lifetime :p 14:26:29 My more advanced password system uses h'(p) = h(h(p)+p) of course. 14:26:53 p+p isn't very strong for two character passwords . 14:27:08 protip: don't try to make up your own 14:27:44 here's my favourite passwod system hash(p) = md1(md2(md3(md4(md5(p))))) 14:27:58 as you can see it's 1*2*3*4*5 = 120 times more secure than just MD5 14:28:15 I also put the result in a jpeg 14:28:17 Shouldn't it be as secure as the least secure hash mechanism? 14:28:24 no, it's 120 times as secure. 14:28:29 I don't beleive that. 14:28:41 (also, no, not really) 14:29:23 for instance you wouldn't expect good_password_function(MD5(p)) to be as weak as MD5, because good_password_function(p) isn't as weak as the identity function 14:29:24 No, but I'd be actually interested to know the weaknesses of h'(p) = h(h(p)+p) 14:29:36 -!- nicole has joined. 14:29:37 unless mroman designed it 14:29:55 `welcome nicole 14:29:56 nicole: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:30:30 `learn_append mroman He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. 14:30:32 Learned 'mroman': mroman is a leading artist in password security (SFW). He also likes black madness. He can design password hashes that are worse than the identity function. 14:30:50 i think this about sums up this discussion. 14:30:58 :( 14:31:12 You can always add more stuff! 14:31:14 like... uhm... 14:31:20 deducing the number of rounds from the password. 14:31:31 h'(p) = h(h(p)+p, rounds=f(p)) 14:31:32 o hi 14:32:02 here's my updated password hash: hash2(p) = sha1(sha2(sha3(...sha512(p)...))). as you can see it is at least 512 factorial times stronger than my previous one 14:32:58 The solution is btw that h(h(p)+p) doesn't help if two people have the same password 14:33:04 so it's a stupid thing to do. 14:33:08 elliott: i sense that hash{n} may be an ackermannlike function. 14:33:43 I'm sure we're giving nicole a fantastic impression of this channel's quality 14:34:11 !blsq 1Jq?+10C!CL 14:34:11 | {144 89 55 34 21 13 8 5 3 2 1 1} 14:34:13 well for this time of day, the usual channel activity would be *chirp* 14:34:16 there. Better impression. 14:34:27 oerjan: just wait for hashomega(p) = hash(hash2(hash3(...p...))) 14:35:02 elliott: good, good 14:35:27 I mean you can only hash so many things ... 14:35:37 Yes. 14:35:50 and h(p)+h(p) is obviously better than h(p) because h(p)+h(p) must contain more bits. 14:36:38 thankfully thanks to quantum computing we can stack an infinite number of hash functions 14:36:47 okay, I should stop. I'm almost as bad as mroman 14:37:03 yea I mean if you take the output of one hash and put that directly into another one you are taking a cross-section of the posibilites because fixed langth input on the second one 14:37:17 its really not ideal 14:37:44 Luckily nobody knows I'm designig a hash function called Burlesque . 14:38:17 nicole: in H1(H2(p)), if H2's output is larger than H1's then you can cover all possible outputs of H1... you're not necessarily guaranteed to though, I forget what this property of H1 is called 14:38:32 well, larger or even the same 14:38:49 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 14:38:52

14:40:24 hi though, did you come here from the wiki? (in before you've already had the welcoming committee treatment and I look like a fool...) 14:40:53 it's ok boily isn't around to ask about body weigh 14:40:59 I guess if you are using hash functions that are significantly different from eachother then it would be worth the extra stuff 14:41:32 elliott: nah I just thought it would be fun in here and stuff. 14:41:53 nicole: you're going to be so disappointed... 14:42:24 elliott: well I have not been let down yet... 14:43:51 I'll make sure to keep making up nonsense hash functions, then 14:44:43 well nicole hasn't left yet despite our best attempts at making a hash of it. 14:44:51 -_- 14:46:53 !blsq "nicole"R@5!! 14:46:53 | "nc" 14:46:58 !blsq "nicole"r@5!! 14:46:58 | "nciole" 14:47:13 ^scramble nicole 14:47:23 where's fungot 14:48:29 !blsq "nicole"r@50!! 14:48:29 | "nilcoe" 14:48:50 I think we've scrambled nicole quite enough already 14:48:58 okay 14:49:09 !blsq "mroman" s@36!! 14:49:09 | ERROR: Burlesque: (!!) Invalid arguments! 14:49:09 | 36 14:49:09 | ERROR: Unknown command: (s@)! 14:49:14 :P 14:49:22 !blsq "mroman"b6b6 14:49:22 | "17c96b7" 14:49:28 that's my hash function I guess! 14:50:17 !blsq "17c96b7"b6b6 14:50:17 | "17c96b7" 14:50:21 !blsq "17c96b7"b6 14:50:22 | 24942263 14:50:39 !blsq "17c96b7"b6b26 14:50:39 | 6 14:50:39 | "1011111001001011010110111" 14:50:44 !blsq "17c96b7"b626B! 14:50:44 | "22f2ll" 14:50:46 hm 14:50:49 !blsq "17c96b7"b625B! 14:50:50 | "2dl7fd" 14:50:55 not sure how to reverse that 14:51:04 nicole: it's r@, not s@ 14:51:12 !blsq "abcd"r@ 14:51:13 | {"abcd" "bacd" "cbad" "bcad" "cabd" "acbd" "dcba" "cdba" "cbda" "dbca" "bdca" "bcda" "dabc" "adbc" "abdc" "dbac" "bdac" "badc" "dacb" "adcb" "acdb" "dcab" "cdab" "cadb"} 14:51:50 !blsq "abc"R@ 14:51:50 | {"" "a" "b" "ab" "c" "ac" "bc" "abc"} 14:52:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:53:40 !blsq "ais523"b2 14:53:41 | 859 14:53:46 !blsq "a"b2 14:53:46 | 10 14:53:51 !blsq "b"b2 14:53:51 | 11 14:53:54 !blsq "c"b2 14:53:54 | 12 14:53:55 is that some sort of hash function? 14:53:59 blsqbot: tutorial bot 14:54:20 !blsq 12b2 14:54:21 | "1100" 14:54:21 that is ascii yo 14:54:32 what? 14:54:35 no. ascii is L[ or ** 14:54:38 !blsq "c"** 14:54:38 | ERROR: Burlesque: (**) Invalid arguments! 14:54:38 | "c" 14:54:43 !blsq 'c** 14:54:43 | 99 14:54:48 !blsq 99L[ 14:54:49 | 'c 14:54:54 ais523: sort of . 14:55:10 I still can't understand a line of burlesque 14:55:21 wat 14:55:26 !blsq "elliott" 14:55:26 | "elliott" 14:55:33 elliott: think of it as a normal stack language where all the commands have been replaced by arbitrary two-character sequences 14:55:34 there, now you understand one line 14:55:46 nicole: the language the bot use 14:55:47 s 14:56:01 ais523: that's actually a pretty good summary, yes. 14:57:13 I know I am reading its github source right now and I cant make head or tails of this maybe ctags will help me tomorow 14:57:55 Burlesque? 14:57:59 There are two tutorials 14:58:16 http://mroman.ch/burlesque/tutorial.html <- this one 14:58:28 http://fmnssun.github.io/Burlesque/ <- and that one 14:59:54 ais523: it's got variables and functions now though 14:59:55 cloneing now 15:00:17 !blsq %foo={)++} {{1 2}{3 4}} %foo! 15:00:17 | {3 7} 15:00:47 !blsq %:0 "age" 19V 15:00:47 | <"age",19> 15:00:50 I really should make a proper esolang again sometime, I always seem to wuss out and make something almost useful instead. 15:01:09 I usually wuss out of making something useful and make something useless instead 15:02:24 J_Arcane: if the language is both esoteric /and/ useful, so much the better 15:02:43 -!- S1 has joined. 15:02:44 although My Unreliable Past is basically only useful for philosophical reasons, and/or implementing it on systems limited in a very weird way 15:02:57 VIOLET I guess is 'lesser evil 15:03:43 Though I do kinda dig the pseudohistoric languages more than just out-right crypticism. 15:04:22 5 6 .+ 15:04:29 !blsq 5 6 .+ 15:04:29 | 11 15:04:31 !blsq 5 6 .+ 15:04:31 | 11 15:06:16 !blsq 5 6 .* 15:06:16 | 30 15:06:20 * elliott burlesque expert 15:07:04 Did you take the Certified Burlesque Programmer (CBP) Test? 15:07:06 juts got spam with the subject "my subject" 15:07:08 !blsq "asdfqwer" "sgdfgfhj" IN 15:07:08 | "sdf" 15:07:13 ^_^ 15:07:23 I suspect someone was filling out an automated spambot configuration thing from a tutorial and took it a little too literally 15:07:34 !blsq 5 6 _+ 15:07:35 | {5 6} 15:07:52 (For no particular reason.) 15:09:40 elliott: To become a CBP you must solve http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?number+lines+reverse in 11B in Burlesque 15:10:14 can I just solve it in haskell and J and then smudge the two solutions together? 15:10:18 pretty sure that's how burlesque works 15:10:36 That's how it works. 15:12:36 elliott: but you have to reverse it 15:12:46 since J is right->left and blsq is left->right 15:12:50 -!- kline has changed nick to im1ach. 15:12:53 well, J also uses infix. 15:13:37 Can't compete with that. Only have prefixes. 15:13:40 !blsq @az 15:13:41 | 'z 15:13:41 | 'a 15:14:09 !blsq @(z 15:14:10 | ERROR: (line 1, column 4): 15:14:10 | unexpected end of input 15:14:18 that's actually a command prefix 15:14:37 I mean, J is a f b, not f a b 15:17:51 I'm sure you can write a Burlesque parser with infix . 15:17:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:18:43 !blsq "mroman" z[ 15:18:43 | ERROR: Burlesque: (z[) Invalid arguments! 15:18:43 | "mroman" 15:19:08 !blsq "mroman"z[ 15:19:08 | ERROR: Burlesque: (z[) Invalid arguments! 15:19:08 | "mroman" 15:19:11 lol 15:19:25 that's not how zip works 15:19:29 !blsq "mroman" "nicole" z0 15:19:29 | ERROR: Unknown command: (z0)! 15:19:29 | "nicole" 15:19:29 | "mroman" 15:19:31 !blsq "mroman" "nicole" z[ 15:19:31 | {{'m 'n} {'r 'i} {'o 'c} {'m 'o} {'a 'l} {'n 'e}} 15:19:36 that's how it works 15:19:39 !blsq "mroman" "nicole"** 15:19:39 | "mnriocmoalne" 15:19:40 fwiw 15:19:44 D: 15:19:57 didnt think that it did tha 15:21:00 !blsq "mroman" "nicole" z[ u[ 15:21:00 | {'n 'i 'c 'o 'l 'e} 15:21:00 | {'m 'r 'o 'm 'a 'n} 15:21:43 some complex statitics stuff in here like variance 15:22:17 yep 15:22:24 and some distributions 15:22:28 and a chi squared test 15:24:00 !blsq 2{{?i}{?d}}M- 15:24:01 | {3 1} 15:24:17 that was a dissapointing output for coolmap 15:24:22 why 15:24:26 that' what it does 15:24:35 !blsq "hi"{{zz}{ZZ}{<-}}M- 15:24:36 | {"hi" "HI" "ih"} 15:25:20 !blsq "hi"{qzzqZZq<-}}M- 15:25:20 | {{zz} {ZZ} {<-}} 15:25:21 | "hi" 15:25:38 woot 15:25:53 !blsq "hi"{qzzqZZq<-}M- 15:25:54 | {"hi" "HI" "ih"} 15:25:55 ah. forgot a } 15:26:57 !blsq "hi" tp 15:26:58 | ERROR: You should not transpose what you can't transpose. Yes this is an easteregg! 15:26:58 | "hi" 15:27:21 that's some easter egg 15:27:34 !blsq {{1 0}{0 1}}tp 15:27:34 | {{1 0} {0 1}} 15:27:41 !blsq {{h' i'}{b' g'}} tp 15:27:41 | {{h' b'} {i' g'}} 15:27:43 > transpose "hi" 15:27:44 Couldn't match type ‘GHC.Types.Char’ with ‘[a]’ 15:27:44 Expected type: [[a]] 15:27:44 Actual type: [GHC.Types.Char] 15:27:46 !blsq {{1 2}{3 4}}tpBS 15:27:46 | [1, 3] [2, 4] 15:27:51 !blsq {{1 2}{3 4}}tpSP 15:27:51 | "1 3\n2 4" 15:27:54 !blsq {{1 2}{3 4}}tpsp 15:27:54 | 1 3 15:27:54 | 2 4 15:28:00 !blsq {{1 2}{3 4}}sp 15:28:00 | 1 2 15:28:00 | 3 4 15:28:04 !blsq 3 tbsp 15:28:05 | ERROR: Burlesque: (SP) Invalid arguments! 15:28:05 | ERROR: Unknown command: (tb)! 15:28:05 | 3 15:28:09 burlesque is useless for cooking 15:28:15 tb? 15:28:21 tbsp = tablespoon 15:28:27 ic 15:28:38 !blsq 3itbsp^ 15:28:38 | Sh 15:28:39 | "\n" 15:28:39 | 3 15:28:49 3i tablespoons... 15:28:54 that's one complex recipe 15:29:26 !blsq {{h' i'}{b' ee}} cp 15:29:26 | ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments! 15:29:26 | {{h' i'} {b' ee}} 15:29:34 come on, that was funny :( 15:29:51 !blsq {'h 'i}{'b ee}cp 15:29:52 | {{'h 'b} {'h ee} {'i 'b} {'i ee}} 15:30:05 !blsq {'h 'i}{'b ee}cpsp 15:30:05 | h b 15:30:05 | h ee 15:30:05 | i b 15:30:31 (sp is used to pretty print 2d arrays) 15:30:37 !blsq {{3.4 5}{4 ee}} cp 15:30:37 | ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments! 15:30:37 | {{3.4 5} {4 ee}} 15:30:49 nicole: cp wants two lists 15:30:54 but you give it a list containing two lists 15:30:59 o 15:31:07 !blsq {3.4 5}{4 ee} cpsp 15:31:07 | 3.4 4 15:31:07 | 3.4 ee 15:31:07 | 5 4 15:32:13 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1} cp 15:32:14 | ERROR: (line 1, column 34): 15:32:14 | unexpected end of input 15:32:14 | expecting "%", "g", "s", "S", "m{", "q", "{", "\"", "-", digit, "'", "(", "y" or "}" 15:32:25 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}} cpsp 15:32:25 | [3.4, 5] [7, 8] 15:32:26 | [3.4, 5] [pi, 6.1] 15:32:26 | [9, ee] [7, 8] 15:32:47 I was kinda wanting the crossproduct 15:33:16 that is the crossproduct 15:33:27 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}} )cpsp 15:33:27 | [Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", "7 8", "\n", Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", "pi 6.1"] 15:33:28 | {{3.4 5} {9 ee}} 15:33:47 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}} {p^cp}m[sp 15:33:47 | [Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", Sh, "\n", 7, "\n", Sh, "\n", 8, "\n", Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", Sh, "\n", pi, "\n", Sh, "\n", 6.1] 15:33:48 | {{3.4 5} {9 ee}} 15:33:49 hm 15:33:58 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}}cp)cpsp 15:33:59 | [Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", "[3.4, 5] [7, 8]", "\n", Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", "[3.4, 5] [pi, 6.1]", "\n", Sh, "\n", ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments!, "\n", "[9, ee] [7, 8]", "\n", S 15:34:01 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}}cp)cp 15:34:01 | {ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments! {{3.4 5} {7 8}} ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments! {{3.4 5} {pi 6.1}} ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments! {{9 ee} {7 8}} ERROR: Burlesque: (cp) Invalid arguments! {{9 ee} {pi 6.1}}} 15:34:03 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}}cp 15:34:04 | {{{3.4 5} {7 8}} {{3.4 5} {pi 6.1}} {{9 ee} {7 8}} {{9 ee} {pi 6.1}}} 15:34:11 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}}cp{p^cp}m[ 15:34:11 | {{{7 3.4} {7 5} {8 3.4} {8 5}} {{pi 3.4} {pi 5} {6.1 3.4} {6.1 5}} {{7 9} {7 ee} {8 9} {8 ee}} {{pi 9} {pi ee} {6.1 9} {6.1 ee}}} 15:34:13 !blsq {{3.4 5}{9 ee}} {{7 8}{pi 6.1}}cp{p^cp}m[sp 15:34:14 | [7, 3.4] [7, 5] [8, 3.4] [8, 5] 15:34:14 | [pi, 3.4] [pi, 5] [6.1, 3.4] [6.1, 5] 15:34:14 | [7, 9] [7, ee] [8, 9] [8, ee] 15:34:20 maybe like that. 15:35:13 also ee and pi aren't parse level constants 15:35:15 !blsq {ee} 15:35:16 | {ee} 15:35:17 vs 15:35:21 !blsq |[ee]| 15:35:21 | {2.718281828459045} 15:35:31 but that's a new feature of 1.7.4 15:35:38 so it's not documented yet. 15:35:47 :V 15:36:38 !blsq {3 -3 1} {-12 12 -4} cpsp 15:36:38 | 3 -12 15:36:38 | 3 12 15:36:38 | 3 -4 15:36:57 nope that is suppoed to equal 0 15:37:01 !blsq {3 -3 1} {-12 12 -4} cp 15:37:02 | {{3 -12} {3 12} {3 -4} {-3 -12} {-3 12} {-3 -4} {1 -12} {1 12} {1 -4}} 15:37:26 -!- im1ach has changed nick to kline. 15:38:06 I really mean {0 0 0} 15:45:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:46:11 I mean I am doing the math right in front of me... (-3x(-4))-(1x12) = 0 15:47:56 oh mai 15:48:48 !blsq "Dulnes" ZZ 15:48:48 | "DULNES" 15:49:12 -!- vanila has joined. 15:49:20 lol 15:50:30 hi 15:50:41 hi 15:51:08 byes! 15:51:16 bye? 15:51:21 not just one 15:51:26 -!- nicole has left ("Leaving"). 15:51:36 hmm 15:52:46 so i need help 15:53:50 One of my cores overheated and broke sooo I need a new one, Any ideas? 15:55:40 On where to buy one the ones i had were already came with the computer So ive just been using those. Ive looked for some but.all are 1/3 the size in how much space it has 15:56:52 one of your cores... 15:56:59 do you mean one of your CPUs 15:57:07 yuh 15:57:41 so effectively i have no computer 15:58:14 ill just buy a new one nvm 15:58:28 ...can't you just use the remaining CPUs? 15:59:09 nope :T they are broken also 15:59:40 i really only need two CPUs 16:04:45 im sad 16:07:18 -!- hjulle has joined. 16:13:26 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:22:05 mmm anyways thats.just my Dr 16:22:14 desk top* 16:24:26 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:28:54 `?toroman 3999 16:28:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?toroman: not found 16:29:07 i dun goofed 16:29:26 i forgot the cmd again well whatever 16:36:19 * oerjan kills a tab for the heresy of making unrequested sound 16:38:05 heh 16:47:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:47:44 oerjan: first adblock, then close 16:48:03 *first install adblock 16:48:17 it doesn't happen often enough to make me bother? 16:48:50 adblock edge 16:49:05 regular adblock gets paid to not block ads 16:49:42 you can just untick that. 16:49:43 yeah, ABE. 16:50:39 yes, but an adblock author cooperating with ad providers, well it just smells fishy 16:51:03 I remember there being fishier things about adblock edge 16:51:18 is that so, hmm 16:51:27 but I use µBlock because it's the only one that doesn't use a trillion gigabytes of RAM injecting tons of CSS into every single page 16:52:38 I don't mind non-intrusive ads 16:52:54 non intrusive ads don't exist! 16:53:20 they could in theory though 16:53:26 it wouldn't be an ad! 16:53:29 transparent banners for instance 16:53:51 "i hope you happen to click up here!" 16:54:04 Like, say, small webcomics making use of project wonderful to advertise other small webcomics 16:55:09 I wish we had a viable business model for the web that is not based on surveillance. 16:55:36 I don't mind the non-flashy ads, but I do mind the tracking. 16:56:03 (much to my dismay, animated gifs still haven't quite died out.) 16:56:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:56:42 I do wonder though, whether tracking has already moved on to the next obvious step: just buy webserver logs. Or take them for free (google analytics...) 16:57:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:57:19 and the phisher ads are a annoying 16:57:36 Sure, that doesn't count as non-intrusive :P 16:57:55 -!- `^_^v has joined. 16:58:16 int-e: have you seen panopticlick? 16:58:25 yes 16:58:45 Just get the ISP to do tracking for you (Verizon) 16:59:34 yeh 17:00:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADS). 17:00:41 "Currently, we estimate that your browser has a fingerprint that conveys at least 22.17 bits of identifying information." ... removing de_DE from the accepted languages, "Within our dataset of several million visitors, only one in 213,892 browsers have the same fingerprint as yours." 17:00:59 int-e: just use tor :p 17:01:04 I do have javascript disabled, otherwise this would be much much worse. 17:01:09 then you stick out like a sore thumb but nobody can tell which sore thumb you are 17:01:18 disabling javascript can actually help panopticlick :/ 17:01:26 I'm pretty easy to track since I use elliott's useragent string 17:01:35 IIRC tor browser without javascript gets more bits than tor browser with javascript 17:02:12 elliott: That's not a good reason for enabling javascript. 17:02:34 it's not, no. but it does mean it's not an unqualified win for pure tracking 17:02:45 I know that. 17:03:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:05:13 You can play other fun games. For example, Panopticlick currently has about 4.51 million samples. 17:06:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:09:29 "Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 4,705,644 tested so far." 17:09:34 Yay, I'm a special snowflake. 17:09:50 (This was with scripts on.) 17:09:57 q: how many bits does the exact "N bits"/"one in X" figure leak? 17:10:10 wait, I guess that's kind of obvious 17:10:25 count the digits 17:10:45 yeah. 17:10:46 20.58 bits here 17:10:50 Heh, I had a unique HTTP_ACCEPT. 17:11:24 I think nicole confuses cross product with the other kind of cross product 17:11:37 elliott: the nice thing is that if you visit the page twice, the number gets smaller. so some simple linear algebra lets you estimate the number of total samples 17:11:44 (Thanks to manually putting 'el' there because I wanted β.zem.fi to show up in Chromium properly.) 17:12:18 -!- adu has joined. 17:12:52 int-e: that sounds harder than just setting some header to something ridiculous to get a unique result like fizzie 17:13:11 elliott: then it doesn't display a number 17:13:22 17:09:08 "Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 4,705,644 tested so far." 17:13:22 Doesn't it say the "among the N tested so far" message for non-unique results? 17:13:22 so you still have to reload, and then multiply by 2 17:13:29 oh 17:13:39 it is less mathematically elegant I admit 17:13:44 I thought I tested that ... it has been a while though, admittedly. 17:15:28 fizzie: no, it says "one in visitors have the same fingerprint as you" 17:15:36 (modulo precise wording) 17:15:56 and "among our millions of samples" 17:17:22 I guess the exact count is just a prize for being unique, then. 17:20:20 Or if you're still doing a no-scripts version, at least for me the content (including the "among the N tested" message) comes directly from https://panopticlick.eff.org/index.php?action=ajax_log_clientvars over AJAX. 17:20:36 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 17:22:33 No, you're right; you need to be unique to get the exact number. That's funny. 17:22:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:27:13 http://www.i-programmer.info/news/105-artificial-intelligence/7985-a-worms-mind-in-a-lego-body.html 17:27:19 only one in 34,601 browsers have the same fingerprint as yours. 17:28:02 that's with JS disabled though 17:28:15 with Js its unique 17:28:43 my browser plugin details are unique 17:32:15 http://danluu.com/empirical-pl/ 17:37:59 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:39:37 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 17:41:58 * Melvar appears to have a unique HTTP_ACCEPT header. 17:49:23 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:54:59 -!- NATT_SiM_ has joined. 17:55:04 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:56:33 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 17:56:45 I am a bad person 17:56:58 Without quite realizing, I made GHC compute 10!, in unary, at compile time 17:57:22 how many days is 10! seconds? 17:57:47 Taneb: has it finished yet? 17:57:49 > product [1..10] `div` (24*60*60) 17:57:51 42 17:57:53 ais523, I killed it 17:57:54 :-) 17:58:06 10 factorial's only a few million, IIRC 17:58:15 the "unary" probably causes problems, though 17:58:51 a friend of mine just won the IOCCC with that computation 17:59:04 oh, are the results out already? 17:59:14 only winners, no source yet 17:59:21 I have a theory that the number of submissions is actually reasonably small 17:59:42 > product [1, 7, 2, 3] `div` (1) 17:59:44 42 18:00:34 Dammit, I'm supposed to be doing homework but now I want to write a for w/carry version of !. 18:01:21 where ! means factorial? 18:01:32 for some reason, the first association that came into my head was Prolog's cut 18:01:44 Right, ran it with a sufficiently small value of 10 (ie., 7), and it doesn't compile 18:01:51 Context reduction stack overflow 18:02:29 http://lpaste.net/114452 18:03:22 ais523: Yes. 18:03:33 seems useful 18:04:30 !blsq 1723XXpd 18:04:30 | 42 18:05:12 gonna need a compiler that rewrites product[...]/product[...] based on factorization 18:05:15 asap 18:05:36 actually let's say general rational functions 18:05:37 Just realised that only had 7 as a sufficiently small value of 10 if 6 is a sufficiently small value of 7 18:06:18 hey taneb maybe you should implement a more efficient multiplication algorithm and that would fix it 18:06:35 i'm thinking schönhage 18:06:52 or fürer but taht seems overcomplicated 18:07:23 Bike, it's doing it in unary 18:07:34 Any binary multiplication'd be much much faster 18:07:42 exactly. i think you need fourier transforms 18:08:47 fourier-based multiplication doesn't work in unary 18:08:57 needs a hyperpositive base to work 18:09:00 (i.e. more positive than 1) 18:10:14 this conversation is surreal 18:11:15 b_jonas: half the reason I even stay here is to have surreal conversations 18:14:32 data N; data O n; data Z n; type family x + y; type instance N + n = n; type instance Z m + Z n = Z (m + n); type instance Z m + O n = O (m + n); type instance O m + O n = Z (m + (n + O N)) 18:14:42 i'm sure this is totally reasonable and also that i know the haskells. 18:15:20 Bike: you're not far off 18:15:27 pretty sure that would work as-is 18:15:47 fuck you if you want to add an odd number and an evne number in that order, though. you're what's wrong with america. 18:16:50 the order is inside out from what i originally thought of, though. life is suffering tbh. 18:17:32 dammit. it's not working. 18:19:20 type instance Z m * Z n = Z (Z (m * n)); type instance Z m * O n = (Z m + Z (Z (m * n))); type instance O m * O n = (O m + O n + Z (Z (m * n)) + O N) 18:20:01 glad i can contribute to taneb doing completely reasonable things. 18:23:29 oh and N * n = N i /guess/ 18:24:17 nice, binary arithmetic 18:25:05 for my next trick, a carry lookahead adder 18:25:51 Circuit parallelism in the type system 18:26:04 -!- NATT_SiM_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:26:16 Never before seen in the civilised world, ladies and gentlemen 18:26:31 Hmmm. I think carry is doing crazy things ... 18:26:51 Bike: now I'm trying to figure out if that violin-based adder is carry lookahead 18:27:00 Bike: I'd try and optimize that a bit: type instance Z m * Z n = Z (Z (m * n)); type instance Z m * O n = Z (m + Z (m * n)); type instance O m * Z n = Z (n + Z (m * n)); type instance O m * O n = O (n + m + Z (m * n)) 18:27:22 even reasonabler. 18:28:34 But I'll punt on the carry look-ahead. 18:28:40 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 18:29:26 We can define the sum in terms of the carry, and the carry in terms of itself: 18:29:28 * `sum` = `x` bitwise-XOR `carry` 18:29:29 * `carry` = (`a` bitwise-OR (`x` bitwise-AND `carry`)) leftshifted 1 18:29:32 there's the basic algorithm 18:29:50 (`x` and `a` are the bitwise-xor and bitwise-and of the numbers you're adding 18:30:26 i'm not sure how you'd do bitwise operations on types. 18:30:30 Sigh. I am an idiot. Carry works fin, I was using my function variable instead of my loop variable to accumulate the value ... 18:30:49 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 18:30:55 i've got it. what if we just used some kind of sub-type programming. we could have "number" objects and "functions" operating on them. maybe we could evne make "numbers" a type 18:33:14 that's standard 18:33:29 "the HT80C51 processor (2007???) from Handshake Solutions" so the wikipedia article on async cpus is pretty shitty 18:34:11 «During demonstrations, the researchers amazed viewers by loading a simple program which ran in a tight loop, pulsing one of the output lines after each instruction. This output line was connected to an oscilloscope. When a cup of hot coffee was placed on the chip, the pulse rate (the effective "clock rate") naturally slowed down to adapt to the worsening performance of the heated transistors. When liquid 18:34:17 nitrogen was poured on the chip, the instruction rate shot up with no additional intervention. Additionally, at lower temperatures, the voltage supplied to the chip could be safely increased, which also improved the instruction rate—again, with no additional configuration.» 18:34:26 this, however, seems totally useful and practical. maybe if those resistors are busy computing 10! in unary 18:35:01 I would be amazed to see 10! being computed by resistors 18:35:06 Bike: ooh, async CPUs is pretty close to what I was doing on my thesis, before I discovered the underlying theory sucked 18:35:10 (fact n) in Heresy: https://twitter.com/J_Arcane/status/534414254510997504 18:35:20 ais523: yeah i remember you mentioned that 18:35:23 ais523: sucks how 18:35:51 J_Arcane: well /now/ it looks eso, good job 18:35:59 :D 18:36:19 I plan to add carry support to do loop as well. It's a filed issue. 18:37:13 ais523: like, does it inherently suck, or is it just like wikipedia says and nobody's worked on it. 18:37:20 you should see how many ridiculous recursive fibonaccis we've written in Verity 18:37:23 the lastest one makes the compiler crash 18:40:23 Bike: Shit like that is why I called it Heresy. :D 18:40:48 what can i say, anaphoric macros leave a bad taste in m mouth 18:40:51 Bike: basically, the state is that there was a bunch of work done in Holland like 20 years ago that had some promising results 18:40:57 but fell a little short of the result everyone ants 18:41:04 *wants 18:41:11 and mentioned that that would be a sensible result to aim for 18:41:13 then nothing else happened 18:41:18 mm 18:41:28 i'm just curious about async cpus since it seems a bit like biological clocks 18:42:16 has there been any research on karman streets appearing in multicore async cpus? i'm sure this is a major research area 18:42:27 Bike: Also fun, underneath it's still technically entirely functional code. Heresy's for is a recursive list eater, even carry is just passing one of the optional arguments to the next recursion. 18:50:27 -!- S1 has joined. 18:57:22 Oh maaan. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rare-Vintage-Gimix-Ghost-6809-computer-OS-9-GMX-I-complete-original-box-extras-/231387896256?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item35dfcb19c0 18:57:49 Right, I've got it to use bnary addition 18:57:56 Which makes it so much faster 19:04:31 Now I've got a less naive implementation of multiplication too :) 19:06:35 http://lpaste.net/114454 19:11:37 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:12:10 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to Guest76372. 19:24:35 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:26:02 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 19:27:26 omfg my power went out 19:32:47 ais523, hi 19:32:59 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:33:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:33:04 callforjudgement, hi! 19:33:04 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:33:30 ais523, did you ever do anything with my patches to build ick on classic Mac OS? 19:33:43 I happened to find them the other day, and I was wondering whatever happened to that 19:33:47 Vorpal: no, other than admire them 19:33:50 I don't have a Mac Classic 19:33:56 I can put them as a branch in the repository if you like? 19:34:19 ais523, thanks I guess. But eh I don't have time to maintain them or such 19:34:28 not on a live branch 19:34:40 just as a "historical interest" thing, like the DOS port 19:34:45 Well, sure 19:34:49 Still using darcs btw? 19:35:06 ais523, also remember the mac Makefile *has* to be encoded as MacRoman not ASCII in order to work 19:35:28 Vorpal: ESR ported like five different repos into git 19:35:38 5 different? 19:35:49 Vorpal: you should probably read this: http://nethack4.org/blog/save-optimization.html 19:35:52 err, not that one 19:35:53 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2491 19:36:07 (you can read my post about optimizing save files in NH4 too if you like but it's not what I was trying to link you to) 19:36:23 both because it describes the history of the repo, and because it offers an insight into what it's like trying to work with ESR 19:37:50 guys is noscript something i should get 19:38:07 ais523, oh okay, I already clicked before I saw your link. I was just going to write: "interesting, but what has this got to do with anything?" 19:38:16 saw your second* 19:38:44 Dulnes: if you have a personality like me, it's really useful 19:38:48 I don't know how much like me you are, though 19:38:58 I see it as a way of generally removing annoyances, many of which people believe to be useful functionality 19:38:59 Dulnes: don't you need to fix your broken CPUs first? 19:39:01 ais523, "trying to work"? 19:39:15 elliott: yeah i do 19:39:45 which ive been trying to do while i was gone 19:40:03 did you clean them with soap 19:40:24 im transplanting my desktops CPUs out 19:40:33 elliott: is Dulnes Sgeo, or have you changed who you give humorous bad advice to? 19:41:02 Im not sgeo 19:41:09 ais523: I'm happy to give bad advice to people who I think are trying to troll me badly <_< 19:41:18 And no im not cleaning it with soap 19:41:50 elliott: why would i have a reason to troll you? i dont even know you 19:42:13 Dulnes: what language is (hh)++["^§"].g[ss.h]+++-[ " ok " ." irc.web_host " ]+++( " * " )-[ "»»»" ] = <.irc.app_module> [ "«««" ] in anyway? 19:42:40 its in my skypes 19:42:45 ais523, well, esr has a /significant/ ego I can tell at this point. 19:42:55 also its my friends bots code 19:43:10 im just borrowing it >_> 19:43:22 "borrow" 19:43:39 ok. you need to fix your broken CPU core so you can code in your skypes again 19:43:58 yup 19:44:14 or i can just throw my entire desktop out the window 19:44:29 and use my phone forever 19:44:37 in summary, I have no idea what could have possibly given me the impression that you're not saying true things 19:44:57 i dont need you to believe me 19:45:13 i just need to know where to buy a good one 19:45:15 !bfjoust dulnes_example (hh)++["^§"].g[ss.h]+++-[ " ok " ." irc.web_host " ]+++( " * " )-[ "»»»" ] = <.irc.app_module> [ "«««" ] 19:45:17 ais523.dulnes_example: points -30.67, score 3.72, rank 47/47 19:45:25 ​Score for ais523_dulnes_example: 6.1 19:45:27 I guess it probably isn't BF Josut? 19:45:32 *BF Joust 19:45:42 ais523: I don't think it's anything seeing as the last snippet of bot code before that had unmatched barckets 19:45:45 *brackets 19:45:49 and random embedded brainfuck code 19:46:04 and also the "bot" connected via webchat :p 19:46:12 it was me who pointed that out 19:46:21 no bot in here 19:46:23 thing is, that might actually be a sane impl on Windows 95 19:46:42 wait, windows 95? 19:46:52 hmm, are we talking about the same person? 19:46:54 >_> yes 19:47:12 ais523: yes, I just didn't pay as much attention yesterday 19:47:13 which person 19:47:28 I think you can get a browser that will run webchat on Windows 95, but only just 19:47:36 werent we talking about black holes 19:47:41 thankfully none of this is a true thing 19:48:17 ais523, also consider model based checking for ick? Like QuickCheck. 19:48:52 Might be fun, writing a haskell FFI for intercal so you can use quickcheck on it. Maybe? 19:49:40 Vorpal: actually I wrote something for fuzzing the optimizer which is vaguely similar to that 19:49:42 it generates random INTERCAL expressions, then feeds a bunch of random numbers through them (many of which have significant values like powers of 2) 19:49:55 Ah, right 19:50:00 there's quickcheck ports to other languages 19:50:01 even C I think 19:50:09 and sees if they produce the same result on an optimized and unoptimized program 19:50:17 we found several optimizer bugs that way 19:50:29 elliott, I know a guy who ported it/is porting it to C++11. :/ 19:50:45 sounds reasonable 19:50:57 Well, apart from C++ not being reasonable, sure 19:50:57 incidentally, I'm /still/ not sure if ESR has figured out that I'm a different person from Claudio Calvelli yet 19:51:08 ais523, have you told him? 19:51:27 I think I did once, but there's not much point really 19:51:44 I'll mention it again if it ever becomes important 19:52:16 why would you go out of your way to talk to esr :p 19:52:25 ais523, cfunge has an even simpler fuzz test btw, where it feeds a random program into cfunge (which is set to run in "safe mode", which disables instructions that could affect system state, like writing a file). It then checks if it crashes within x seconds, if not it runs it again under valgrind for another x seconds and checks for errors being reported. 19:52:55 elliott, good point 19:53:16 strangely enough, I'd made my own attempt to collect old INTERCAL versions independently from ESR 19:53:21 but he has better connections than I do, so was better at it 19:53:33 Ah 19:54:33 ais523, anyway, feel free to put up that patch if you still have it around. I don't currently know where I have it as a patch. I just found the source and build directory on the old mac. 19:54:44 Where there is no version control. 19:55:31 Oh and if I didn't credit myself already, note down it was me who did it somewhere. And remember the Mac MPW Makefile must be encoded as MacRoman. 19:55:36 -!- Guest76372 has quit (Changing host). 19:55:37 -!- Guest76372 has joined. 19:55:59 Vorpal: do you know which version it was a patch /against/? 19:56:00 -!- Guest76372 has changed nick to Sprocklem. 19:56:30 ais523, no, but I guess I could check if you know a reasonble way to detect it? 19:57:06 ais523, I'm starting sheepshaver right now 19:57:09 Vorpal: if you have the complete source directory as well as the patch, you could reverse the patch and apply it to the source dir 19:57:29 I do not have the patch, just the complete source & build directory 19:57:48 oh 19:57:51 let's see if I have the patch 19:58:00 please tarball up at least the source directory 19:58:17 tarballing up the build directory is not "technically" necessary as it should be in theory reproducible, but I'm not sure that most peopel actually can 19:58:40 ais523, tarball doesn't do resource forks do it? 19:58:49 So the build directory will be corrupted 19:58:54 Source should be fine though 19:58:55 Vorpal: OS X can tarball resource forks 19:59:02 ais523, I have OS 9 19:59:02 no idea if that was backported to Classic though 19:59:07 I don't have tar 19:59:16 ah right 19:59:21 I will have to copy it as-is to a different computer and then tar it there 19:59:23 do you have any proprietary Mac-specific archiver? 19:59:31 someone's probably reverse-engineered it by now 19:59:38 Yes, stuffit 19:59:48 ais523, hm there is the directory "ick mac" and "ick mac - new" directories. 19:59:56 I will copy both and diff them 20:00:03 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:00:09 Oh great there is ick-mac.prev too 20:00:41 Oh and a locked disk image marked "ick" 20:00:50 Jesus 20:01:05 And ick.img.hqx 20:01:07 sounds like you have a bit of an 20:01:09 icky situation 20:01:10 going on there 20:01:14 8) 20:01:34 :D 20:02:18 Well I copied all the ones I found. I will do some directory diffing now 20:02:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:05:14 There was a follow-up study that illustrated the issue by inviting Lispers to come up with their own solutions to the problem, which involved comparing folks like Darius Bacon to random undergrads. A follow-up to the follow-up literally involves comparing code from Peter Norvig to code from random college students. 20:05:22 could you help me find that follow-up please? 20:05:31 http://danluu.com/empirical-pl/#wat_summary 20:05:35 regarding this linked earlier 20:07:50 ais523, one of the versions involve resource fork :/ 20:07:59 Or wait 20:08:07 No, there is a resource script I think 20:08:38 ais523, Are you sure you don't have the patch around any more? 20:10:27 ais523, oh I think this will show a dialog box with the options to the ick command in MPW 20:10:39 That is neat 20:10:44 Vorpal: haven't looked for it yet, got confused 20:11:13 Oh 20:11:14 Vorpal: I have a "macppc_beginning.patch" but it's just 637 lines long 20:11:38 can you upload that somewhere? 20:12:15 Vorpal: nethack4.org/esolangs/macppc_beginning.patch 20:13:05 That mime type, I guess I'll download it 20:13:28 what mime type does my server give it? 20:13:55 Something that makes firefox want to save it rather than view it 20:14:30 Anyway, it appears that I have a newer version here, since ick.r is missing in your patch 20:14:32 ah right, I think my server just doesn't know what type it is 20:15:08 ais523, The big problem is that 1) I don't know which files are generated any more 2) I have no idea if the resource fork or file type matter on any of these files 20:15:22 As in the mac creator flag and file type (4 letters each) 20:16:02 Heh, sublime does macroman, nice 20:16:21 elliott, What is the command to search the logs? 20:16:35 Vorpal: there isn't one any more because HackEgo doesn't have access to them 20:16:42 [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41021&oldid=39850 * Nthern * (+222) /* Capuirequiem reference interpreter */ new section 20:16:42 Oh? 20:16:49 -!- shikhout has joined. 20:17:20 ais523, I do have a backup disk that might contain the Linux side repo of this, let me look at it (I have reinstalled this computer since I did that) 20:19:27 ais523, this might be of interest: http://sprunge.us/OOGg 20:19:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:23:14 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 20:26:02 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:27:57 ais523, okay so I know which version to use now. However, this is with resource forks stored as the sheepshaver emulator does it when you copy file to the shared-with-host virtual disk thing. 20:28:10 I have no idea if this is useful for anyone using a real mac 20:28:24 I have no idea if all this is useful even for someone running Linux 20:28:54 And on my real mac I only have stuffit for compressing it. Also there are no build instructions anywhere, except for esolang logs I guess. I certainly have no idea how to build it any more. 20:30:38 ais523, I'm writing a short read me with the stuff I know about (not much at this point) then sending it to you 20:45:08 ais523: https://www.dropbox.com/s/65xc2m46wu3itih/ick-mac_final.tar.xz?dl=0 20:46:11 hmm, another website that claims to require JavaScript, but actually doesn't 20:46:18 ais523, Hope you can figure out which version it is based on (probably a darcs revision, not a specific release) 20:46:29 Vorpal: ooh, I have an ick-mack-patches directory too 20:46:34 *ick-mac-patches 20:46:38 that I didn't notice last time I looked 20:46:46 ais523, okay? I have no idea about that 20:47:06 ais523, I do think some of the source is patched to fix issues with path generation 20:47:18 Vorpal: what's the README actually named? 20:47:24 ais523: is it one of those that include a CSS file that hides most contents? 20:47:29 ais523, macppc/README 20:47:48 ais523, macppc/Makefile *must be MacRoman* 20:48:00 ais523, it looks like it contains weird letters, because it does 20:48:10 that ick_createdata thing looks like a bug that should be fixed 20:48:16 also, you've gone on about this encoding thing like 10 times now 20:48:20 it's not like iconv doesn't exist 20:48:39 ais523, well, just treat it as a binary file is probably best. 20:49:20 except, hmm, iconv doesn't know the name "macroman" 20:49:49 oh, it's just called "macintosh" 20:49:49 hah 20:49:55 SysLibs = {ShareDir}syslib.i ∂ 20:49:59 Yes 20:50:02 is that the correct transcode to UTF-8? 20:50:10 ais523, ∂ is line continuation \ 20:50:14 There is another character too 20:50:31 {ObjDir} ƒ {SrcDir} {PreBDir} {GenSrcDir} 20:50:32 Yes 20:50:33 who designed this syntax 20:50:40 ais523, I have no idea 20:50:54 this is like British people using ¬ and £ in language definitions because they don't know better 20:51:04 (and I think ¬ is on UK keyboards because it's in EBCDIC?) 20:51:13 ais523, also there is ƒƒ but I don't remember how it differs. ƒƒƒ even i think? 20:51:28 fortissimoissimo is louder, duh 20:51:48 ais523, anyway if you can commit it as a binary file it is probably best to do so, saves people from having to re-encode it if they want to use it. 20:52:19 huh, according to Wikipedia, there is actually also a capital Ƒ 20:53:17 Bicyclidine, yes the make file is louder :P 20:53:25 ais523, in MPW make files!? 20:53:30 Wikipedia also has dire warnings about confusing the character in the Makefile with ʄ 20:53:32 Vorpal: no, just in general 20:53:49 ais523, wikipedia has a page on MPW make files? 20:53:52 Where!? 20:53:53 no 20:53:58 Oh 20:53:58 it has a page on ƒ though 20:54:01 Ah 20:54:28 ais523, you should look at the comment near the top of uncommon.c where it deals with path separators 20:54:40 oh, Wikipedia actually has two paragraphs on MPW make files 20:54:43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Programmer%27s_Workshop#Writing_MPW_tools 20:55:17 ais523, yep I basically build ick as an MPW tool 20:55:29 Otherwise there would be no command line argument support 20:55:52 ais523, after reading uncommon.c you will ask again "who designed this syntax" 20:56:57 huh, this is pretty similar to Wikipedia escaping syntax 20:57:12 oh? 20:57:16 where 20:57:27 How are mac paths similar? Or the make file? 20:57:31 [[page]] is [[:page]] is named "page" (and are the same page), [[::page]] would be a page named ":page" but that's disallowed because the software gets confused handling its own escaping syntax 20:57:36 Ah 20:58:04 wait what 20:58:28 ais523, that makes no sense, what does the single : actually do there? 20:58:44 forces the link to be an actual link 20:58:56 rather than something else that might have similar syntax 20:59:05 Ah 20:59:07 e.g. [[:Category:2014]] compared to [[Category:2014]] on Esolang 20:59:12 Ah right 20:59:38 ais523, anyway I patched ick to not generate foo//bar in compile commands I remember, since that breaks with foo::bar on mac 21:00:13 ais523, also classic mac supports / in file and directory names (it was forbidden in 9.1 or so I think, in preparation for OS X) 21:00:38 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 21:00:42 Forbidden as in "you can't create new ones" 21:02:09 ais523, oh another thing I remember now that I forgot in the readme. ick will output the compiler commands to run. Since MPW tools can't execute other tools 21:02:21 Because reasons and fucked up memory management 21:02:40 IIRC they are basically loaded as libraries into the MPW workbench 21:03:05 And it would cause freezes if it tried to run another tool 21:03:36 so basically a permanent -c 21:03:42 Hm maybe 21:05:30 there are some patches in perpet.c it appears (I find this file naming confusing btw) 21:05:50 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:06:05 Vorpal: basically, the file names are tangentially related to the purpose of the file 21:06:13 that's it, that's the only principle behind the names 21:06:20 so there's normally some connection, but a very remote one 21:06:41 that said, I have no idea what's behind the name "feh.c" (which eventually became "feh2.c") 21:07:36 Heh 21:07:52 @google fiddle lose ick feh 21:07:53 https://gitorious.org/intercal/intercal/source/9745c958c4bc00939fd244d78530ad232be61b72:Makefile 21:08:17 ais523, searching for #ifdef MPW_C and variants of that should probably help you find most patches 21:08:20 (those are some good search terms) 21:09:58 ais523, perpet.c line 807-826 might be interesting too 21:20:28 Just bought: one-way tickets to London. 21:20:30 And § is another only-in-some-keyboards key. 21:26:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:30:54 -!- yukko has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:31:03 -!- zemhill has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:31:24 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 21:33:57 fizzie, hm? 21:34:10 I have §. Unshifted even 21:34:19 shift-§ is ½ 21:34:30 It is the key to the left of 1 21:34:45 What is that on US keyboards I wonder 21:34:57 `~ 21:34:57 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ~: not found 21:36:33 Vorpal: We do, too, because the Finnish layout is practically identical to the Swedish one. 21:36:45 Ah 21:37:07 It is a fairly useless symbol 21:37:39 The British layout has ` and ¬ there. (So same as US in that regard, except with ¬ replacing ~.) 21:38:09 (They've got # and ~ in the key where we have ' and *.) 21:38:15 (It's all so random.) 21:38:37 (Also I just used § in an email today.) 21:39:51 the British keyboard also has a second | on altgr-` 21:39:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:40:22 it produces the same character as shift-\ on Linux, but typically a different character from | on Windows (often a "broken" pipe) 21:40:25 -!- ZombieAlive has joined. 21:41:19 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:57 -!- zemhill has joined. 21:44:10 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 21:44:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:45:49 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:46:28 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 21:48:04 The broken bar can be confusing. 21:48:08 -!- zemhill has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:49:06 A relatively common Finnish keymap has the key-between-z-and-shift as < unshifted, > with shift, | (solid bar) with altgr and ¦ (broken bar) with shift-altgr. 21:49:41 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:51:18 -!- perrier has joined. 21:51:33 Though that's not an official part of the modern SFS (Finnish national standards body) 2008 fi keymap -- it doesn't define any level4 meaning for the key. 21:52:10 -!- yukko has joined. 21:52:51 It's the most mortal of layouts: there's a total of 19 dead keys (if you count all shift levels separately). 21:53:44 -!- zemhill has joined. 21:55:55 yeah, the latin1 broken bar 21:56:02 ¦ 21:56:17 I have a mark next to it in my font because my normal bar | is broken too 21:56:25 And the SFS layout also has the worst thing, which is putting a non-breaking space as altgr-space. Combine with the fact that | comes from altgr-< and every third pipeline fails due to an unintentional nbsp between | and the command. 21:57:06 fizzie: yes, that's a bad idea. there's a good reason why shift-space and altgr-space still has to give space 21:57:25 mac seems to generically have alt-space as nbsp, regardless of layout 21:57:30 in fact, in my weird layout I use capslock to write hungarian letters, 21:57:44 but I don't have to press it exactly, because all the a-z letters still produce the same thing with caps lock as without 21:57:54 (at least I've never seen swedish layout produce nbsp except on mac) 21:58:00 and produce the same letter with capslock-shift as with shift 21:58:11 so I can hold the capslock for longer than needed 21:58:33 I only have some extra symbols on capslock-digits and capslock-shift-digits 22:02:15 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:03:07 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:05:31 ⦗wth⦘ 22:07:08 Oh well, Unicode is just weird. ⌨ 22:08:10 but now I can type ⦇⟦⦃«⟪⟫»⦄⟧⦈ 22:08:41 it produces the same character as shift-\ on Linux, but typically a different character from | on Windows (often a "broken" pipe) <-- \ is altgr-+ for me, | is altgr + key left of z 22:08:45 ais523, so that didn't help 22:09:07 key left of z on a UK keyboard is \ unshifted, | shifted 22:09:10 A relatively common Finnish keymap has the key-between-z-and-shift as < unshifted, > with shift, | (solid bar) with altgr and ¦ (broken bar) with shift-altgr. <-- same for my Swedish keymap 22:09:16 . u ⟅ I wonder whether anybody uses these... ⟆ 22:09:35 It's the most mortal of layouts: there's a total of 19 dead keys (if you count all shift levels separately). <-- Does Swedish have that much?!? 22:10:16 of course not, we're not finns are we? 22:10:29 (Actually I have seen ⟅ ⟆ on somebody's slides recently.) 22:10:38 The "traditional" Finnish layout doesn't have that much, at least. 22:11:48 fizzie: yes, that's a bad idea. there's a good reason why shift-space and altgr-space still has to give space <-- I had issues in some terminal, I think it was either the cygwin one or putty with altgr- (which yields ~ as a dead key, so you have to type altgr+key-left-of-å ) opening the menu on altgr-space 22:12:04 When I didn't release altgr quickly enough 22:12:34 ▕block drawing for absolute value▏ 22:12:45 That renders poorly for me 22:12:51 tilde on a dead key is not great for coding 22:12:53 the | and the b merge together 22:13:00 Not a surprise. 22:13:04 olsner, no kidding 22:13:16 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 22:13:46 olsner: I learned to hate dead keys in Pascal. ~ wasn't an issue. ^ was. 22:13:52 especially bad in editors that don't handle dead keys 22:14:08 int-e, oh yes, ^ is shift- for me 22:14:11 I guess I just wrote c++ without destructors 22:14:13 and then space 22:15:11 ais523, anyway, hopefully you can do something with that tarball. Figure out what it was based on and then put it up there for historical interest 22:15:24 I hit some issue recently where ~ was a dead key, but also pressing ~ + space did not insert ~ but ̃, which is not really good for anything. 22:15:31 (That's a space with COMBINING TILDE.) 22:15:46 And pressing ~ + ~ didn't insert anything. 22:15:52 I couldn't figure out any way to get a regular ~ out of it. 22:16:08 ouch 22:16:10 that sounds utterly broken. 22:16:28 I think it was some virtual on-screen thing, I forget which device. 22:16:38 Alt-numpad-1 2 6 22:16:47 Vorpal: I'll have a look when I'm more awake and working on INTERCAL 22:17:02 ais523, fair enough 22:17:11 thanks for the files, anyway, we can probably make something of this 22:17:38 ais523, I'm not around much, dropping me an email might be better if you need to get in contact with me. 22:18:16 That or lambdabot 22:19:04 See /msg for mail 22:19:22 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 22:19:41 Good night 22:20:52 Aw, we didn't get DNSSEC for esolangs.org. :/ 22:21:01 Oh well, it's not like anyone actually uses it. 22:24:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:25:16 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 22:26:28 < fizzie> It's the most mortal of layouts: there's a total of 19 dead keys (if you count all shift levels separately). – Now I want to know wha they are, ’cause even Neo2 only has eighteen. 22:33:25 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 22:33:58 Melvar: Based on the layout image, some sort of horizontal-line-in-the-middle (1), grave accent (2), acute accent (3), cedilla (4), something that looks like flipped cedilla (5), a hook above (6), something cedilla-like on the right side (7), ring above (8), the Hungarian double acute accent (9), diaeresis (10), ^ above (11), ~ above (12), - above (13), two variants of reversed ^ that look ... 22:34:04 ... pretty similar (14, 15), dot above and below (16, 17)... and, hm. There's two more, but they look suspiciously similar to dot-above and horizontal-line-in-the-middle, so maybe they're redundant. I'll try and find the official list. 22:35:05 Here's the official list. 22:36:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:37:41 Yes, they're redundant. Sorry, so there are 19 dead keys but only 17 unique ones. 22:41:55 And the characters are 0301 0300 0327 0328 031B 0309 030B 030A 0308 0302 0303 0304 030C 0306 0323 0307 and there's no code point listed for the combining horizontal line, if I'm interpreting this right it's not actually a single combining Unicode character but more a general "add a stroke" character that can produce d, g, t, l, h, o with an extra stroke. 22:42:42 (That's 0111, 01E5, 0167, 0142, 0127 and 00F8, respectively.) 22:43:23 đǥŧłħø, to be exact. 22:43:38 The ones Neo2 doesn’t have are hook and horn (Vietnamese), and it overloads cedilla and ogonek, because they mostly only go on different letters. The additional ones Neo2 has are: turn, rhotic hook (which may actually serve as Vietnamese horn as well), and greek dasia and psili. 22:45:08 Also the Finnish names for the combining characters are (a) ridiculous and (b) something I've never heard of. (akuutti-korkomerkki, gravis-korkomerkki, sedilji, ogonek, sarvi, yläpuolinen koukku, kaksois-akuutti-korkomerkki, yläpuolinen ympyrä, treema, sirkumfleksi, tilde, pituusmerkki, hattu, lyhyysmerkki, alapuolinen piste, yläpuolinen piste) 22:45:41 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:46:19 sedilji and ogonek are presumably borrowed from french and russian 22:46:46 Polish actually I believe, that’s where the ogonek is used. 22:46:49 oh 22:47:03 ę and ą 22:47:13 oh right it wouldn't make sense for cyrillic 22:47:45 fizzie: does hattu mean "hat" 22:50:30 Looks like it does, and also háček, which is not what one usually means by a hat on a letter in English. 22:50:51 oh 23:00:27 Having looked at them in Wiktionary, all of those names seem not particularly ridiculous. 23:01:36 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:08:47 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 23:11:55 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 23:13:32 [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41022&oldid=41021 * Zzo38 * (+305) 23:22:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:26:27 -!- digitalc1ld has changed nick to digitalcold. 23:27:18 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:29:18 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 23:31:21 -!- NATT_SiM has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:35:22 [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41023&oldid=41002 * BCompton * (+473) 23:35:53 [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41024&oldid=41023 * BCompton * (+57) /* Transactions */ 23:36:52 -!- NATT_SiM has joined. 23:37:21 [wiki] [[Talk:My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41025&oldid=41024 * Ais523 * (+79) /* Transactions */ good catch 23:37:53 [wiki] [[My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41026&oldid=40999 * Ais523 * (+4) /* Semantics */ fix thinko 23:38:30 [wiki] [[My Unreliable Past]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=41027&oldid=41026 * Ais523 * (+56) /* Semantics */ clarify 23:40:54 oerjan: Yes. Oh, someone already said that. 23:41:49 And I'm sorry but "gravis-korkomerkki" is unarguably ridiculous, no matter how you spin it. 23:42:57 “grave-stressmark”? 23:44:48 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:45:23 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 23:46:48 Nobody uses (or even knows) the phonetics-specific meaning of "korko", especially since it has a perfectly normal and well-known word ("paino") already. 23:47:58 (And "gravis" is just a gratuitous loanwordery. And a family of sound cards.) 23:49:22 I don’t think any language hasn’t loaned that in in one form or other …