00:04:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:05:48 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:29:51 @metar ENVA 00:29:51 ENVA 262350Z 21019KT 9999 VCSH FEW010 SCT025 BKN035 08/04 Q0994 RMK WIND 670FT 21024G40KT 00:30:26 so which part of that says that the weather is awful today 00:32:48 the numbers 00:32:58 ah 00:33:20 i hate it when it pours _and_ is too windy to use my umbrella 00:33:28 also, thunder. 00:36:53 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:48:49 the size of the set of all variations of lowercase,uppercas,digit and symbols is much larger <-- hm i'm skeptical actually 00:49:53 possibly that was entirely ironic, but i'm not convinced there's even a *2 difference 00:51:17 -!- SvenGek has changed nick to `SvenGek. 00:52:04 ok assuming ascii between 33 and 126 00:52:48 > let d = 10; lc = 26; uc = 26; s = 126-d-lc-uc in s 00:52:50 64 00:53:11 wait wat 00:53:21 > let d = 10; lc = 26; uc = 26; s = 126-32d-lc-uc in s 00:53:22 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> a)) 00:53:23 arising from the ambiguity check for ‘s’ 00:53:23 from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a1 -> a), 00:53:23 GHC.Num.Num a1, 00:53:23 GHC.Num.Num a) 00:53:28 argh 00:53:34 > let d = 10; lc = 26; uc = 26; s = 126-32-d-lc-uc in s 00:53:36 32 00:59:47 :t memo 00:59:48 Not in scope: ‘memo’ 01:08:58 -!- `SvenGek has quit. 01:16:54 `olist 963 01:16:54 olist 963: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 01:36:37 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:09:12 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 02:11:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:13:44 -!- GeoDude has changed nick to GeekDude. 02:32:17 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:32:25 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 02:33:39 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 02:37:29 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:37:36 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 02:59:52 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:38:46 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 03:38:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:38:54 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 03:47:51 has anyone written a generator for that god-awful never execute a ] style? <-- well in general that gives exponential blowup 03:49:31 I hate that style too 03:49:41 and am very much in favour of designing the rules of BF Joust so that it doesn't work 03:52:45 e.g. via program size limits in the hundreds-of-kilobytes to low-megabytes range 03:52:59 i think some of the usefulness of ({})% is that it gives you _some_ of the power of that style 03:53:10 without the blowup 03:53:17 how much of it, i wonder 03:54:47 oerjan: see stealth2's behaviour against a program that sets scattered small decoys, and you get a very good idea 03:56:56 you can do [P]Q -> ([P{}]Q)%-1 but that probably does not compose 03:57:22 !bfjoust 03:57:22 oerjan: "!bfjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. 03:58:12 oerjan: that's actually a really useful transformation for timer-ing a clear 03:58:18 if you reduce the -1 to some smaller value 03:58:37 right 04:06:27 has anyone written a generator for that god-awful never execute a ] style? <-- well in general that gives exponential blowup 04:06:34 That's what I started writing JoustExt for. 04:06:49 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:06:51 I had to abandon runtime if {} else {} and similar constructs because the exponential blow up was too hard to control 04:08:28 and that's the way it should be 04:08:51 oerjan: I guess the reason I like ({})% is that it gives you symmetry between test-zero and test-nonzero 04:09:15 ()* lets you do any number of consecutive zero tests, but you need ({})% to do consecutive nonzero tests 04:09:27 * Lymia resolves to aim a fuzzer at gearlance 04:10:17 Lymia: looking for a bug? 04:16:21 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 04:18:06 Howmany reasons could I have for pointing a fuzzer at something? 04:27:09 hmm, I was more trying to get at, were you planning to try to find a bug that let you defy the normal rules of BF Joust? 04:28:43 oh, more notes about that esolang I was developing 04:28:49 it uses a queue for recursion, rather than a stack 04:28:55 this wasn't even intentional, it just sort-of happened 04:29:17 there was a really good reason but I can't remember it offhand 04:30:42 ais523: it makes me want to write an alternate joust with goto labels. strategies would get far more complex far more quickly! 04:31:00 quintopia: defence programs would be close to unwritable 04:31:14 reverse tripwires would be very unlikely to work, unless pretty large 04:32:08 but also i was thinking it would be cool to have a cronjob hill. you submit a link instead of the actual code, and it runs once per night, updating by downloading codes from all the addresses that were modified TODAY and rerunning those. it's feasible now that we have fixed point. 04:32:18 and it could lead to a lot of surprises when multiple people update 04:34:43 that's pretty close to how the original hill worked 04:34:58 except it was weekly rather than daily, and there was IIRC a one-week lag on seeing each other's programs 04:35:16 it might be interesting to have a hill where egojsout-style traces are available but source isn't 04:35:17 no, i don't want any lag 04:35:31 oh that could be cool 04:35:38 so people would have to reverse-engineer each other's programs from behaviour 04:35:48 would definitely rule out the possibility of "program that beats/draws everything" 04:57:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 04:58:36 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 04:58:36 -!- Sorella has joined. 05:19:46 What do people here think of Ethereum? 05:38:24 !bfjoust dotheywork (>[(+{>[-{-}]}.)%3])%9 05:38:25 oerjan.dotheywork: points -29.67, score 4.28, rank 47/47 05:38:36 ok it parsed 05:39:40 so zemhill_ _does_ support nested ({})s 05:39:49 or at least the syntax 05:41:17 just because it parses doesn't mean it does what you expect 05:41:54 i was afraid of that 05:42:48 although i sort of assume that anyone who would make it parse will also have listened to me blathering about how it _should_ be implemented. 05:42:49 !bftest test ((>{+}>{-})%3)%4 05:42:50 ais523: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level 05:43:04 OK, at least something that is obviously meaningless fails to parse 05:49:07 Sgeo: the site is very confusing, and the lack of any sort of conventional research papers doesn't give me much confidence 05:49:16 hah looking at parser.h, the reason (...) is treated as a comment is so that it won't cause a parse error _inside_ a (...)*0 comment :P 05:49:43 *parser.c 05:50:55 Sgeo: in particular it looks like EVM doesn't do any sort of static analysis 05:52:38 incidentally, the answer to te problem that came up in here several weeks ago, "is it possible to securely trade between two cryptocoins that don't share a blockchain" is "yes" 05:52:45 although it needs certain features from each 05:53:18 what is the definition of secure, here? ensure atomicity? 05:53:23 without a third party 05:53:36 coppro: yes, as in the trade one way also forces the trade the other way 05:53:49 same definition of secure as it is within one blockchain, I'd think 05:54:11 in that once it's agreed on to have happened (part of the blockchain) it can't ever be reverted 05:54:23 Patashu: you need more than that 05:54:35 the main features are: a) a method to reserve funds for a specific length of time, such that they can only be transferred to one specific person within that time (but don't have to be; the reservation can time out); b) transactions that ignore unrecognised fields, and that are only accepted before a specific time and if they are signed with specific public keys (where the time and keys are part of the transaction itself) 05:54:39 Sgeo: maybe you've heard of IBM forking Ethereum, though 05:54:57 Patashu: in a single cryptocurrency, the currencies are fungible 05:55:05 Patashu: so the notion of an exchange is meaningless 05:55:23 basically, the way it works is, both of us reserve our cryptocoins to each other, until some specified deadline; then we create a transaction that does /both/ transfers, and requires both our signatures and times out before the deadline in question 05:55:28 right, that's true 05:55:44 drdanmaku: haven't heard of that 05:55:54 ais523: but aren't the transaction records separate? 05:55:56 if we both sign it, we can each submit the transaction to the blockchain where we're receiving, it goes through because all the conditions are met 05:56:11 if we don't both sign it, neither transaction can be submitted, and they both time out 05:56:20 also you need asymmetrical deadlines, to prevent timing scams 05:56:50 basically, you're creating a polyglot transaction, that's accepted by one side only if it's accepted by the other side 05:56:58 ah, ok 05:57:07 right, that makes sense 05:57:08 so that if you kick off my side of the transfer, I can grab the same transfer out of the blockchain and kick off your side 05:57:14 I'm kind of sad Ethereum contracts can't initiate transactions 05:57:16 (thus the asymmetrical deadlines) 05:57:26 Sgeo: https://gigaom.com/2014/09/09/check-out-ibms-proposal-for-an-internet-of-things-architecture-using-bitcoins-block-chain-tech/ and https://twitter.com/pbrody/status/510311550734073856 05:57:29 Loops that keep going as long as the contract is paid 05:57:44 and the hold means that the money has to be available 05:58:01 (we both put the holds onto our respective blockchains in advance, and verify they're there before starting the transaction proper) 05:58:27 actually the ability to do a hold would be useful generally to be able to do truly instantaneous transactions, so long as you predicted in advance that they might happen 05:59:31 do ya'll really trust the bitcoin implementation in light of recent stuff like heartbleed and shellshock :/ 05:59:59 it seems like a disaster waiting to happen if it wasn't well designed ahead of time 06:00:11 bitcoin was kind of just a code dump by an anonymous person 06:00:17 drdanmaku: I personally don't trust it; however, I think it's unlikely that a security hole will be found in the protocol itself, on the basis that if there was one, someone would probably have found and exploited it by now 06:00:21 drdanmaku: an academic, actually 06:00:35 security holes in various bitcoin manipulation software have been found frequently, I expect them to continue to be 06:00:37 coppro: "academic"? satoshi nakamoto? 06:02:05 his secret identity might be in academia, but if he wants that credibility it would come with having some accountability as well 06:03:02 academic code? credibility? hahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahaha 06:03:06 you must be new here 06:03:21 not the code, the person 06:03:58 coppro: to be fair, academic code's pretty good when seen in the light of sturgeon's law 06:04:07 in that I think it bats a little below 90% crud 06:04:20 ais523: only a little 06:04:21 maybe i'm not making my point clearly, but in any case i don't really feel like diving too deeply in to stuff like bitcoin or ethereum since they seem pretty sketchy in terms of who's involved and who's responsible for things 06:04:37 drdanmaku: please, use dogecoin 06:05:11 isn't that even more sketchy? 06:05:29 maybe IBM and Samsung can make something more attractive with block chain tech 06:05:36 and currently trying very hard to get people to take it seriously, so that the people who already own it can become rich? 06:05:42 block chain tech itself is pretty awesome 06:05:45 although it sounds like their Adept thing is focused on the "internet of things" whatever that means 06:05:50 but mining-based money distribution isn't 06:06:06 ais523: yeah, i'd like some general purpose block chain stuff from software developers i'd heard of before 06:06:48 you could have a centrally managed currency, but you'd need a stupidly strong public key for that 06:07:22 you could easily make it cryptographically strong enough 06:07:29 but the social engineering issues would be another matter 06:07:51 yeah 06:08:28 one other option would just be to give your central bank an inordinately large supply of money, and only allow it to trade with certain other entities 06:08:37 (such as other banks) 06:09:20 not really any more vulnerable to social engineering than the current system, and you avoid actually having to create and destroy money by virtue of the volume 06:10:09 although I guess if you impose very strict transaction restrictions on the central key, socially engineering it out doesn't get you personally much money 06:10:22 and everyone will be watching the transactions carefully to see if anything is amiss 06:10:48 clearly, Bitcoin needs Agoran-style promises 06:11:15 I actually originally invented them as a currency for a work of fiction when I was wondering what a completely chaotic currency system would be like 06:12:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 06:13:01 !bfjoust oneshot (>)*9(-)*128. 06:13:01 mroman_.oneshot: points -33.52, score 2.99, rank 47/47 06:13:28 why do people end programs with dots? 06:14:00 it's sort-of like writing +(+)*10 06:14:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:14:15 !bfjoust oneshot (>)*9(-)*128(<--<++)*4(>)*8([-]>)*3(<--<++)*4(>)*8([-].>)*-1 06:14:16 mroman_.oneshot: points -22.40, score 5.64, rank 47/47 (--) 06:14:34 !bfjoust oneshot (>)*9(-)*128(<--<++)*4(>)*8([-]>)*3(<--<++)*4(>)*8([(+)*7[-]].>)*-1 06:14:35 mroman_.oneshot: points -24.12, score 4.85, rank 47/47 (--) 06:14:46 hm 06:15:19 !bfjoust oneshot (>-)*9((-)*128)*3([-].>)*-1 06:15:20 mroman_.oneshot: points -27.83, score 3.46, rank 47/47 (--) 06:15:25 !bfjoust oneshot (>-)*9((-)*128)*3([-.]>)*-1 06:15:26 mroman_.oneshot: points -31.40, score 3.04, rank 47/47 (--) 06:15:40 !bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*10)*9((-)*128)*3([-]>)*-1 06:15:40 mroman_.oneshot: points -21.17, score 7.21, rank 47/47 (--) 06:15:45 !bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*32)*9((-)*128)*3([-]>)*-1 06:15:46 mroman_.oneshot: points -23.26, score 6.96, rank 47/47 (--) 06:15:50 !bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*13)*9((-)*128)*3([-]>)*-1 06:15:50 mroman_.oneshot: points -18.69, score 8.67, rank 47/47 (--) 06:16:06 !bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*13)*9((-)*128)*3<<<([-]>)*-1 06:16:06 mroman_.oneshot: points -23.00, score 6.68, rank 47/47 (--) 06:17:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:17:47 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 06:39:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 06:40:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:40:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:51:19 !bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*-1 06:51:21 mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 06:51:44 !bfjoust trip (>+[]<(++-)*-1)*-1 06:51:46 mroman_.trip: points -12.12, score 9.86, rank 47/47 (--) 06:52:01 !bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-.)*-1)*-1 06:52:02 mroman_.trip: points -24.52, score 5.40, rank 47/47 (--) 06:52:04 !bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*-1 06:52:07 mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 (--) 06:52:16 !bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1) 06:52:16 mroman_.trip: points -29.67, score 4.28, rank 47/47 (--) 06:52:19 mroman_: your programs seem to contain a lot of tripwires for the sake of having tripwires 06:52:41 they're only useful when writing a program that benefits from knowing what the opponent is doing 06:52:44 !bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*10 06:52:47 mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 (--) 06:52:59 !bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*10(>)*9([-].>)*-1 06:53:02 mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 (--) 06:53:16 I haven't figured out how tripwires can be used 06:54:41 the most common use nowadays is to detect if the opponent is near your flag, and change to a different strategy rather than setting decoys behind them 06:59:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:59:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:01:46 oh well, I just got the updated fix to the bash bug people were talking about 07:01:55 and the fix was to change a .y file 07:02:03 so parser bug was pretty much spot on 07:04:33 but while you're detecting you can't do anything 07:04:38 because [] blocks 07:06:56 so, a forwards tripwire, like [], is mostly only useful for cycle-accurate synchronization, because of that 07:07:09 a common alternative is to set the tripwire to a known value, and see if it still has that value when you check 07:08:03 !bfjoust foo (->++<-)*-1 07:08:05 mroman_.foo: points -15.43, score 7.99, rank 47/47 07:08:21 !bfjoust foo (->(+)*3<-)*-1 07:08:24 mroman_.foo: points -16.50, score 7.07, rank 47/47 (--) 07:11:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:14:18 pffff 07:14:25 durkon allotrope thundershield 07:14:30 amazing middle name 07:18:46 !bfjoust rabbit (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-([>[(+)*9[-]]]..+)*-1 07:18:48 mroman_.rabbit: points -17.57, score 7.45, rank 47/47 07:20:09 !bfjoust rabbit ([>[(+)*9[-]]]..+)*-1 07:20:09 mroman_.rabbit: points -31.55, score 4.29, rank 47/47 (--) 07:20:34 !bfjoust oneshot (>)*9[-] 07:20:34 mroman_.oneshot: points -27.76, score 4.95, rank 47/47 07:20:48 !bfjoust oneshot (>)*9[[-]] 07:20:49 mroman_.oneshot: points -27.67, score 4.99, rank 47/47 (--) 07:20:57 !bfjoust oneshot (>)*9([[-]]>)*-1 07:20:58 mroman_.oneshot: points -14.40, score 10.88, rank 47/47 (--) 07:21:11 !bfjoust meow (>-)*9([[-]]>)*-1 07:21:12 mroman_.meow: points -25.86, score 3.92, rank 47/47 07:21:23 !bfjoust meow (>)*9([[-]]+>)*-1 07:21:23 mroman_.meow: points -16.55, score 10.10, rank 47/47 (--) 07:21:31 !bfjoust meow ([[-]]+>)*-1 07:21:32 mroman_.meow: points -25.50, score 3.68, rank 47/47 (--) 07:23:03 !bfjoust vibr4t3 (-)*127(-+.)*100000 07:23:04 mroman_.vibr4t3: points -5.05, score 15.50, rank 39/47 07:23:09 !bfjoust vibr4t3 (-)*127(-+)*100000 07:23:09 mroman_.vibr4t3: points -11.40, score 11.43, rank 47/47 (-8) 07:23:12 !bfjoust vibr4t3 (-)*127(-+.)*100000 07:23:13 mroman_.vibr4t3: points -5.05, score 15.50, rank 39/47 (+8) 07:25:44 -!- drdanmaku has quit (K-Lined). 07:25:46 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (K-Lined). 07:35:51 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 07:51:29 >+>->+>->+>->+(>-++-(.)*132[+]++>-++-(.)*132[-]--)*15 <- this was #1 on the hill? 07:51:42 it... just waits forever before advancing... 07:54:26 http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/712 07:55:34 haha yeah i saw that 07:55:53 i wonder how many bugs you could find just by grepping for literal numbers, generally 07:56:38 (the patch replaces a *redir_stack[10] with **redir_stack, among other things 07:56:42 end parenthesis 07:57:01 hehe 07:59:05 there's still no patch for my php-injection-vuln for weathermap 0.97c 08:00:37 -!- scounder_ has joined. 08:01:02 I don't know if I should disclose that publicly 08:03:30 we're all doomed anyway 08:07:54 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * YoYoYonnY * New user account 08:09:07 `rm wisdom/tervetuloa 08:09:09 No output. 08:27:27 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:27:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:36:46 Reading seclists I probably will never use wordpress 09:03:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:28:22 -!- zemhill_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:28:50 "too many programs: 49 > 47" gah 09:33:33 It says "replacing", but then it leaves some leftover record (don't know where), and when the same name is reused, considers it's "updating" an old one, which causes a new file to be created. 09:34:49 Oh, that's a silly bug. 09:41:44 -!- zemhill has joined. 09:46:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:46:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:48:28 if(numPrograms > 47) throw new NullPointerException(); 09:48:56 or ((Object)null).toString(); 10:02:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:02:19 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 10:02:24 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 10:43:41 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:44:26 web.just_testing: points -12.67, score 11.69, rank 47/47 10:44:34 V. fancy. 10:44:45 (I will disable it if it becomes a problem.) 10:46:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:50:09 is that web-submission? 10:50:19 Yes. 10:50:31 Directly at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ 10:50:56 web.joust_testing 10:52:20 fizzie: technically there's still /ignore zemhill ;) 11:04:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:04:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:04:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:31:54 ais523: I think it's a flaw in BF Joust that it allows that style 11:32:03 and that hacking on arbitrary limits to prevent it is a bit disappointing 11:32:46 elliott_: well I did think of an interesting alternative, thinking about this problem 11:33:04 we add an extra command, which means "win"; it only does anything if you're on the enemy flag and that flag has value 0 11:33:10 otherwise, it's a nop 11:33:22 but you can only have one of them in the entire program 11:34:13 this sounds ugly. 11:34:39 I sort of think maybe we should just make ] take zero cycles and go from there 11:36:07 then you hit the instant triplock problem 11:36:40 yes, both ways have problems and need fixing 11:37:15 a really boring solution would be a [] nesting limit, btw 11:37:22 that's probably nicer than a program length limit 11:37:24 that said, I've had thoughts on how to win in an instant triplock hill 11:37:39 I don't think it'd be as deep, but there's /some/ depth there 11:40:25 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:44:43 what style? 11:47:32 Although I have nothing against a program length limit of 100 11:56:27 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:59:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:59:05 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:00:24 -!- zolbap has joined. 12:00:36 /100/? 12:00:58 you think there's no value in the more complex programs at all...? many of the oneliners don't even fit in 100 12:01:38 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:03:05 -!- S1 has joined. 12:06:47 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 12:12:23 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:12:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:17:01 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 12:23:35 -!- Sorella has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:25:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:26:47 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 12:26:47 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:33:55 Programmers using scanf with %f without setting a locale suck 12:35:55 because parsing suddenly breaks on systems without LC_NUMERIC=en_US 12:37:16 elliott_: Redcode has that too 12:37:23 There's the nano hill with 5 instructions 12:37:52 I don't know 12:38:17 BFJoust_Nano for <32, BFJoust_Mini for <100, BFJoust_Normal unrestricted 12:39:08 That doesn't mean large programs have no value 12:39:26 something like <256, <1024, <1M would be more reasonable 12:40:26 nano hills warriors are 100% evolved afaik :) 12:40:45 you just select a base strategy and set inital constants 12:40:55 and then feed it to an evolver and leat it tweak constants etc. 12:40:59 *let 12:41:51 bf joust evolvers haven't given good results so far 12:42:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:48:41 -!- zolbap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:58:03 I wouldn't say that 12:58:07 did you see my programs? 12:58:16 I just made a first attempt 12:58:23 then tweaked constants for offsets and decoys 12:58:33 and just by that you can loose or win 10 places 12:58:49 that tweaking of just constants could be automated I'm sure 12:59:13 -!- zolbap has joined. 13:03:04 that isn't quite full evolving 13:03:14 ais523 already partially automates that, I think 13:16:01 it's not full evolving yes 13:16:15 but you can just write (>)*x([-].>)*x etc 13:16:22 and it will find out what's best 13:38:05 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:40:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:41:10 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:41:11 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:55:53 http://esolangs.com/ 13:55:56 ^- who's this? 13:57:20 !bfjoust tiny_tuned >(+)*12>(-)*8>(+)*8>(-)*0(>)*4(>[(-)*10[.+]])*21 13:57:22 fizzie.tiny_tuned: points 0.64, score 20.47, rank 18/47 13:57:26 fizzie_tiny dropped off the hill, and since you were talking about automatic constant tuning... 13:57:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:04:53 -!- boily has joined. 14:06:53 Sgeo: Sgello. thanks for the olist. 14:10:23 which one was the homestuck list, well, whatever 14:14:00 fizzie.tiny_tuned: points 2.00, score 21.33, rank 16/47 (+2) 14:15:33 -!- zolbap has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:17:24 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 14:19:17 mroman_: I just pushed the updated wisdom, with (somewhat) all your updates. 14:38:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:39:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:39:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:40:32 boily: ? 14:40:39 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:41:34 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:42:27 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 14:42:27 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:48:47 mroman_: all your modifications to the `learndb and suchlike in the past few days. 14:49:28 and where did you push them? 14:50:31 to dropbox, as seen in the nice /topic, or to a private repo on github to which you probably have access. 14:50:43 s/or/and/ 14:51:43 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:51:46 -!- GeekDude has quit (Changing host). 14:51:46 -!- GeekDude has joined. 14:57:15 interesting 15:10:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PULCHRITUDINOUS CHICKEN). 15:34:21 -!- conehead has joined. 15:49:06 -!- mauris has joined. 15:49:46 does anyone know who wrote the second program here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge#.22Hello_World.21.22_in_Malbolge 15:50:31 i was under the impression that you needed like, five weeks of cryptanalysis and brute force in order to write a five-megabyte program to do this. i'm quite amazed 15:55:07 mmm, User:ErichS8 on wikipedia added it 15:55:40 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 15:55:50 -!- paul2520 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:57:10 It's not *that* hard, there's e.g. http://matthias-ernst.eu/malbolge.html to generate simple text-printing programs. 15:59:22 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:01:54 There does not seem to be any description about the history of the Wikipedia example, though. 16:04:06 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:13:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:43:10 -!- SvenGek has joined. 16:50:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:05:35 -!- SvenGek has changed nick to SvenNotSvenGek. 17:23:50 -!- GeekDude has joined. 17:30:42 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:30:49 -!- Jafet has joined. 17:37:41 -!- vyv has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:41 -!- ^v has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:42 -!- tromp__ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:42 -!- choochter has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:42 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:43 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:43 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:43 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 17:37:43 -!- jameseb has quit (*.net *.split). 17:40:20 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 17:40:21 -!- Jafet has joined. 17:40:25 -!- Jafet has left. 17:46:49 -!- vyv has joined. 17:46:49 -!- ^v has joined. 17:46:49 -!- tromp__ has joined. 17:46:49 -!- choochter has joined. 17:46:49 -!- ski has joined. 17:46:49 -!- Deewiant has joined. 17:46:49 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:46:49 -!- mtve has joined. 17:46:49 -!- jameseb has joined. 17:46:53 -!- perrier has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:56:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:59:20 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:12:04 -!- SvenNotSvenGek has changed nick to SvenGek. 18:19:36 [wiki] [[$tonePits]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40544&oldid=38318 * 98.219.173.28 * (+3) Fixed some grammar/spelling mistakes. I have a feeling the writer of this page is ESL (English Second Language), and the page could use some more work, but I think I still helped clarify it a bit. 18:27:56 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:49:07 [wiki] [[Pancake Stack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40545&oldid=37603 * Quincunx * (-4) Fix Syntax error in Hello World. Switch is not valid, you wanted Flip 18:56:20 [wiki] [[Pancake Stack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40546&oldid=40545 * Quincunx * (+127) /* Syntax */ 18:56:22 Bike: list? 18:56:29 i dunno 18:56:30 `cat bin/list 18:56:31 #!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' 18:56:35 anyway it's happening etc 18:56:37 Guess not 18:57:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:59:06 -!- scounder has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:59:37 [wiki] [[Pancake Stack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40547&oldid=40546 * Quincunx * (+47) Added an interpreter 19:05:35 -!- scounder has joined. 19:06:33 -!- CrazyM4n has joined. 19:06:52 Hey, what´s a paste service that doesn´t wrap lines? 19:07:11 sprunge 19:07:13 sprunge.us 19:07:42 Thanks, I couldn´t remember the name to it 19:09:45 Gotta love cloud -> butt http://prntscr.com/4qvobv 19:27:50 Weather: Butty 19:50:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 19:59:53 butty? 19:59:55 oh 19:59:56 cloudy 20:00:24 `! bf_txtgen Buttz 20:00:28 53 +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>+.>.-..++++++. [85] 20:00:32 O_O http://neurokernel.github.io/index.html 20:01:06 ^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.>+++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.>+++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.> 20:01:06 ButtzButtzButtz 20:02:11 ah indeed! 20:13:48 ^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.<.>-----.-..++++++.<.>-----.-..++++++. that was HORRIBLY suboptimal what you did there 20:13:49 ButtzButtzButtz 20:13:52 -!- not^v has joined. 20:14:10 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:15:03 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 20:20:03 -!- copumpkin has quit. 20:25:15 mroman_: You here? 20:27:19 ^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]+++[->+.->.-..++++++.-----<<] same to you!! 20:27:19 ButtzButtzButtz 20:30:17 -!- CrazyM4n has left ("Leaving"). 20:32:11 Do you have any METAFONT files for mahjong, and for Japanese hiragana and katakana? 20:33:46 I don't 20:34:02 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 20:37:29 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:38:37 -!- Melvar` has joined. 20:38:45 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:38:45 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:38:46 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:38:46 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:38:46 -!- yiyus has joined. 20:39:59 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 20:40:23 -!- nycs has joined. 20:43:20 -!- AndoDaan has quit. 20:43:43 -!- digitalc1ld has joined. 20:44:31 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 542 seconds). 20:44:32 -!- digitalcold has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:46:57 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:46:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 20:47:35 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:53:50 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 21:10:16 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 21:14:39 -!- shikhin has changed nick to lawpoker. 21:14:46 -!- lawpoker has changed nick to shikhin. 21:14:52 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 21:15:05 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 21:15:48 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 21:16:44 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 21:23:42 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:24:43 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 21:26:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:28:27 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 21:29:23 Anyone here familiar with the Chalcraft-Greene train track automaton: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Chalcraft-Greene_train_track_automaton 21:32:10 i kind of doubt that, but hey, ian stewart! 21:32:27 Ian Stewart? 21:32:36 oh, wrote about it. 21:32:50 I probably should know him. 21:33:41 Definitely should know about him. I'm terrible. 21:34:00 no, knowing too many things is terrible. 21:34:11 anyway, did you have some kind of question, or what? i'm looking at the pdf now. 21:35:17 Yeah. They mention there are two kind of junctions, but sometimes three (the flipper one being third). And I wanted to be clear if two were enough for a turing complete language. 21:35:35 Like if you could make the flipper junction out of the lazy and stuck one. 21:36:11 I don't think it's just me, I think the paper and articles on http://www.zillions-of-games.com/cgi-bin/zilligames/submissions.cgi?do=show;id=1008 are confused 21:37:33 (I'm thinking/making a language of it, and of course I'll put in extra 'commands', but it would be nice to get the fundementals right.) 21:41:07 well, the pdf doesn't mention the third junction in its turing machine construction 21:42:35 actually it doesn't mention flippers at all. what's a flipper 21:42:41 (unless i'm missing it) 21:44:00 When I first learned it, and it's in the zillion game version, a flipper is with input A and output B and C: the train enters A, leaves B. Then the track flips to C. Train enters A leaves C. then back again 21:44:13 You can never enter B or C. only leave. 21:44:54 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0). 21:45:12 yeah, that's not in the pdf.\ 21:45:56 -!- FireFly has joined. 21:46:09 as far as i understand lazy points, you have entrance/exits: feed, siding1, siding2. entering siding1 always exits from feed. entering siding2 always exits from feed. entering feed exits from whichever siding was most recently entered from (or some initial value). 21:46:19 that and sprung points are all they use 21:46:26 yep. 21:46:40 Seems amazing that that is enough. 21:46:56 Well, stranger things have happened. SKI 21:47:33 i mostly wrote that out because i'm not familiar enough with physical trains to understand their description without thinking about it :V 21:47:37 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 21:47:53 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:47:57 it seems reasonable to me. in electronic terms it's like a latch. 21:48:09 Yeah, I only got some grip on the concept with the Zillion game implementation. 21:48:10 (it's weird that terminology has evolved such that "latch" is electronic) 21:48:49 i have the sudden urge to read shannon's paper showing that boolean logic can in fact be done in circuitry. 21:48:58 Is a latch related to NAND? (I just know that NANDs are all you need for a computer) 21:49:14 Not really. It's also called a "flip-flop". 21:49:22 Ah. 21:49:23 It's basically one bit of state. 21:49:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:49:38 or a bistable multivibrator, if you like using big important sounding words 21:49:47 A latch can be made out of NANDs 21:49:52 Who doesn't. 21:50:08 (I believe two NANDs is sufficient to make a simple latch) 21:50:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:50:18 Bike: That term tended to get giggles when I heard it. 21:50:33 Multivibrator 21:50:49 see, because sex, 21:51:04 i think you can do a latch with two crosslinked nands. nors definitely work. 21:51:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SR_Flip-flop_Diagram.svg there we go. 21:51:47 i had a test on this less than a year ago, but remembering things is hard 21:51:51 Note the inverted set and reset signals, though. 21:51:58 Or "active-low", whatever. 21:53:18 MIT lets me view a "preview" version which is the whole text but not "printable". oh no, i guess 21:54:45 Alright, thanks for you help. I guess the fundamentals is not that important to me, because the base language will definitely have flippers junctions. 21:55:07 "It is, of course, always possible to analyze any given circuit by setting up all possible sets of initial conditions and following through the chain of events so instigated." 21:55:55 or 21:56:14 if you have all possible initial conditions you can just make a list or input/outputs and pretend 22:21:16 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:21:44 AndoDaan: ok, i messed up. you do need a flipper. they construct one in the paper out of sprung and lazy points, with the caveat that you need infinitely many. 22:22:10 they also called making one 'an infuriating problem' which matches with my wasting three pages of paper on it 22:22:13 fungot, do you like unfinished sentences in software manuals? 22:22:13 b_jonas: as the scene and inspiration of the romance. such an one had nothing to do. these objects moved intelligently about the great abyss; down whose sides paths, improved by the old ones, and the 22:22:27 Software manuals: so romantic. 22:22:28