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00:20:39 <ais523> what nobody told eddieconroy is that this #esoteric is just as prone to people thinking we're crazy as the other #esoteric
00:22:50 <AndoDaan> It is a bit unnatural to be so fascinated by something so abstract.
00:25:51 <oerjan> i've considered bitching about fizzie using the same prefix for zemhill as for EgoBot, but i think zemhill obliterates the last real reason for keeping EgoBot alive so...
00:30:48 <ais523> oerjan: I thought it just handled !bfjoust specifically
00:31:02 <ais523> in which case, it's just as fine as glogbackup doing the same job as glogbot
00:31:09 <ais523> come to think of it, why are they /both/ here?
00:32:50 <oerjan> i think Gregor has given up on understanding why glogbackup keeps coming
00:33:18 <Bike> maybe we shouldn't hassle globackup about doing its fucking job how about that huh
00:33:30 <oerjan> ais523: except if EgoBot _did_ return, we'd have two inconsistent hills
00:33:41 <oerjan> that both reacted to the same command
00:34:05 <ais523> oerjan: that'd be fine too, it'd make constant-tweaking harder
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00:38:03 <Gregor> oerjan: I've given up on a lot of things.
00:40:52 <oerjan> so is EgoBot officially dead
00:43:06 <Gregor> I may bother to revive it.
00:43:13 <Gregor> I'm not sure why it's down, and haven't bothered to check.
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00:47:20 <pikhq> Turns out that other elements of "life" are time consuming.
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00:48:46 <pikhq> In more positive news, bacon is deliciousness itself.
00:52:04 <shachaf> i really wish people would stop it with the bacon thing
00:52:27 <oerjan> well jew _would_ say that.
00:52:52 <pikhq> I only say this because I am about to make some bacon.
00:53:06 <pikhq> For I hunger, and have bacon.
00:53:14 <oerjan> but i have chocolate-covered peanuts. who wins?
00:53:30 <shachaf> oerjan: well i'm vegetarian hth
01:06:02 <pikhq> That would certainly make keeping kosher easier.
01:07:15 <shachaf> (well, i do know, vaguely. but it's not the sort of thing i pay attention to)
01:07:52 <shachaf> http://math.arizona.edu/~savitt/GTM.html
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03:00:46 <Sgeo> @ask zzo38 Do you have opinions on the speed of various interpreters? Supposedly this game is very impacted by such things http://emshort.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/counterfeit-monkey/
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04:23:12 <shachaf> oerjan: what's with the thing where people call anything with "forall" in it "existential"
04:24:00 <Bike> i thought that was the opposite of existential
04:24:21 <copumpkin> I mean, in much of haskell, the place you're most likely to find it is in an existential
04:24:47 <shachaf> Existentials are pretty rare in Haskell code compared to universals.
04:24:47 <copumpkin> if you don't understand why it's there or have a formal grounding, it seems fairly natural to assume it somehow means existential
04:25:00 <copumpkin> yes, but the universals almost never use the forall keyword unless you're rank-2ing
04:26:16 <shachaf> i,i ∀x. means x is scoped, right?
04:26:33 <shachaf> Anyway, it's odd that so many people gravitate so strongly toward this misuse.
04:28:56 <shachaf> Is there a standard construction of the reals where a real number r is a function : Q -> Q where you give it an error and it gives you a rational approximation within that error?
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04:39:26 <Bike> like computable reals but without the computable part?
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05:22:24 <fizzie> oerjan: My thinking was that people keep trying !bfjoust (well, it happened at least once) so it'd be nice if that did something, and I can always switch keywords if EgoBot does come back.
05:30:58 <TieSoul> !bfjoust firstlel (>+>-)*4>+[>(-)*128.+]
05:30:59 <zemhill> TieSoul.firstlel: points -32.45, score 6.84/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
05:31:19 <TieSoul> !bfjoust firstlel (>+>-)*4[>(-)*128.+]
05:31:19 <zemhill> TieSoul.firstlel: points -31.95, score 7.26/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
05:32:16 <TieSoul> !bfjoust firstlel (>+>-)*4(>(-)*128)*21
05:32:16 <zemhill> TieSoul.firstlel: points -37.02, score 0.80/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
05:32:31 <TieSoul> oh wow that's much worse for some reason
05:32:46 <TieSoul> !bfjoust firstlel (>+>-)*4(>(-)*128.)*21
05:32:46 <zemhill> TieSoul.firstlel: points -29.57, score 8.51/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
05:35:03 <TieSoul> !bfjoust firstlel >+>-(>(-)*128.)*28
05:35:03 <zemhill> TieSoul.firstlel: points -35.52, score 5.97/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
05:35:12 <TieSoul> !bfjoust firstlel (>+>-)*4(>(-)*128.)*21
05:35:13 <zemhill> TieSoul.firstlel: points -29.57, score 8.51/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
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05:39:51 <AndoDaan_> !bfjoust MeatYouBait >>>>>------>+++++++>----->(<++++++<--)*4(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*1([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*7
05:39:51 <zemhill> AndoDaan_.MeatYouBait: points -34.02, score 2.69/100, rank 47/47
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05:41:42 <zemhill> AndoDaan: error: parse error: starting [ without a matching ]
05:41:51 <zemhill> AndoDaan: "!bfjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation.
05:42:12 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*1([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*7
05:42:13 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -6.55, score 25.96/100, rank 34/47 (change: --)
05:43:28 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)*1([(+)*14[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)([(-)*5[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*7
05:44:00 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)*1([(+)*14[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)([(-)*5[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*7
05:44:01 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -9.33, score 22.52/100, rank 46/47 (change: -7)
05:44:40 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)*1([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*1[-]]>)([(-)*7[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*-1
05:44:41 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -6.33, score 26.57/100, rank 32/47 (change: +14)
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06:16:16 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust MeatYouBait >>>>>---->+++++++>--->(<+++<--)*4(>)*10(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)*1([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*6[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*7
06:16:17 <zemhill> AndoDaan.MeatYouBait: points -16.95, score 14.80/100, rank 47/47
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06:26:31 <AndoDaan_> !bfjoust MeatYouBait >>>>>---->+++++++>--->(<+++<--)*4(>)*10(([(+)*3[-]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>)([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)([(-)*4[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*-1
06:26:31 <zemhill> AndoDaan_.MeatYouBait: points -20.38, score 12.77/100, rank 47/47
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06:28:29 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust MeatYouBait (>+++>---->++++++>--->)*4(<+++<--)*4(>)*10(([(+)*3[-]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>)([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)([(-)*4[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*-1
06:28:30 <zemhill> AndoDaan.MeatYouBait: points -20.45, score 14.55/100, rank 47/47
06:29:06 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust MeatYouBait (>+++>---->++++++>--->)*2(---<+++<--)*4(>)*10(([(+)*3[-]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>)([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)([(-)*4[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*-1
06:29:06 <zemhill> AndoDaan.MeatYouBait: points -12.60, score 20.01/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
06:30:53 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust MeatYouBait (>+++>---->++++++>---)*2(<---<+++<--)*3(>)*7(+)*24(>)*2(([(+)*3[-]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>)([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*9[-]]>)([(-)*4[+]]>)*3([(+)*7[-]]>))*-1
06:30:54 <zemhill> AndoDaan.MeatYouBait: points -45.33, score 0.30/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
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09:15:10 <mroman_> If somebode takes over an oauth2server all clients are pretty much screwed
09:15:44 <mroman_> i.e. you get your access token from it
09:16:10 <mroman_> with that access token you ask oauthsrv for stuff like the user's username etc.
09:16:35 <mroman_> and then you display SELECT * from usr_secrets WHERE uname = <uname from oauthsrv>
09:17:20 <mroman_> if somebody manipulates the connection from foosrv to oauthsrv you can respond foosrv with an arbitrary username
09:18:35 <mroman_> or if somebody can hack the oauthsrv
09:18:42 <mroman_> he can also hack pretty much every client
09:18:59 <AndoDaan> How like is it for somebody to take over an oauth2server?
09:38:41 <mroman_> OAuth2 isn't really a single-sign-on system?
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11:00:08 <boily> it's strangely dark outside. kinda disturbing, too.
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12:20:46 <ais523> does anyone know what a cookie named __cfduid is generated by? it looks like a session cookie, but a) servers try to set it in images (one of my pet hates, it just means you get a bunch of contradictory session cookies), b) the name is common to tons of websites so it seems like it must be generated by some framework
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12:24:09 <int-e> http://webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/59226/disable-cfduid-cookie-from-cloudflare
12:25:20 <int-e> (that does not answer the question what it's used for though. The reference to security is flimsy at best. I would treat it as a tracking cookie.)
12:25:52 <ais523> I thought that might be it
12:26:06 <ais523> also explains why it's on every page load, cloudflare probably doesn't look into the internals of pages
12:26:36 <fizzie> Heh, "makes security work".
12:27:27 <int-e> fizzie: actually I'd translate that as "trust us, we know what we're doing"
12:28:34 <fizzie> "The __cfduid cookie is used to override any security restrictions based on the IP address the visitor is coming from. For example, if the visitor is in a coffee shop where there are a bunch of infected machines, but the visitor's machine is known trusted, then the cookie can override the security setting. It does not correspond to any userid in the web application, nor does the cookie store ...
12:28:40 <fizzie> ... any personally identifiable information.
12:28:41 <fizzie> That's what their own support site writes.
12:28:44 <fizzie> Note: This cookie is strictly necessary for site security operations and can't be turned off."
12:30:07 <ais523> also, strikes me that that's exploitable simply by people sharing cookies
12:30:23 <ais523> I guess that's my next step, after randomly rejecting and accepting them
12:32:19 <ais523> also, __cfduid doesn't seem to serve its intended purpose well because it's from the website's domain, not cloudflare's
12:33:25 <int-e> "nor does the cookie store any personally identifiable information"
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12:34:51 <int-e> standard copout, technically correct, but for all non-legal intends and purposes a straight lie.
12:36:08 <ion> As you wish http://heh.fi/tmp/recaptcha-%C5%BFide.png
12:36:23 <fizzie> ais523: The "website's domain" generally points at cloudflare's proxy servers, though, doesn't it?
12:39:01 <ais523> fizzie: no, it's normally the website that humans visit
12:39:17 <ais523> because cookies are associated to the name not the IP
12:42:12 <fizzie> Yes, but I thought with CloudFlare the server that gets the human's request for www.example.com is CloudFlare's.
12:42:24 <fizzie> And they'd see cookies when getting to decide what to do.
12:44:01 <int-e> but their tracking job gets so much easier if they have their own tracking cookie rather than having to identify each site's own cookies.
12:51:13 <ais523> what I mean is, they have a different own cookie for each site they accessed
12:52:39 <sebbu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages "丙正正 – Chinese C++"
12:53:09 <int-e> ais523: true, but cloudfare can related them based on IP addresses
12:56:39 <ais523> int-e: that completely defeats the point of a tracking cookie
12:56:53 <ais523> "let's use some other method to identify people, so that we can figure out which person this tracking cookie belongs to"
12:58:25 <int-e> ais523: it doesn't. you get more reliable correlations. Same IP visiting site A, then B, then A again with A's cookie gives a pretty high confidence that B was the same ... well router.
12:59:00 <ais523> int-e: yes, it could well be two different people on the same router, one visiting site A, one visiting site B
12:59:11 <ais523> I don't see how the use of A's cookie gives you any additional useful information
13:00:21 <int-e> But for many users, IP addresses change regularly.
13:00:56 <ais523> apart from mobile use, IP addresses tend not to change very quickly
13:01:05 <int-e> it's not perfect, but having such a cookie gives you quite a bit more data than pure IP addresses.
13:01:07 <ais523> (source: observing the effectiveness of blocks at Wikipedia)
13:01:11 <ais523> the main exception was AOL
13:01:43 <b_jonas> ais523: my home ip address does change quickly
13:01:44 <ais523> eventually, Wikipedia blocked the whole of AOL from editing until AOL put a unique ID for each of their users in the headers, so that it was possible to distinguish one AOL user from another
13:02:13 <int-e> In Germany users experience forced reconnnects every 24 hours, and get a new IP afterwards.
13:02:21 <b_jonas> the work ip address very rarely changes, and the university machine (from where I've connected to this irc) has an absolutely fixed ip address
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13:03:08 <b_jonas> on the other hand, my internet connection at home is much more reliable than the one at work
13:03:33 <b_jonas> this one at work has serious problems both at the local network connections and the internet connection :-(
13:05:11 <int-e> ais523: Anyway, yes, you get a site based tracking cookie, but I disagree with your assessment that it's worthless; it lets you identify users after IP changes and get a better idea of when those IP changes happen, so it's a significant improvement over tracking just based on IPs.
13:05:45 <ais523> not to mention that the cloudflare cookie breaks the EU cookie laws (the site doesn't say what it's for)
13:05:53 <ais523> although, fwiw, almost every site in existence breaks the EU cookie laws
13:06:05 <ais523> mine doesn't; I don't set any cookies I don't need to, and I don't need any cookies
13:06:28 <b_jonas> oh, there's "EU cookie laws"? so that's what all the pointless crazy cookie warnings on websites are for these days?
13:06:32 <b_jonas> what's the point of these?
13:07:42 <ais523> b_jonas: websites were setting cookies they shouldn't have been
13:07:55 <ais523> so the EU told them to warn about cookies, explain what they were used for, and not include any unnecessary cookies
13:08:11 <ais523> most websites are adding a generic "this website uses cookies" warning, which probably doesn't comply with the restrictions
13:08:18 <ais523> rather than actually, you know, bringing cookie use down to a sane level
13:08:45 <int-e> do you want the theory or the practice? (in theory, users will make an informed choice of what kind of cookies they find acceptable and not use sites or site features which they find intruding on their privacy too much. in practice, I think you just have more policies to accept blindly before you can use sites.)
13:09:29 <ais523> int-e: I already reject cookies that don't have an obvious good reason
13:09:31 <ais523> which is like 99% of them
13:09:44 <int-e> I have little confidence in a court ever ruling cookies unnecessary, there's too much technobabble for justifying their use.
13:09:45 <ais523> the only ones I accept are cookies to retain login data (either per-session, or longer)
13:10:00 <ais523> int-e: well, put it this way: if I reject most of the cookies and the site still works
13:10:02 <ais523> then they weren't necessary
13:10:03 <int-e> ais523: same here, and maybe that's true for 1% of the web users.
13:10:26 <int-e> so it doesn't really matter.
13:11:12 <ais523> it matters to me, you know how long it takes to click through all the cookie accept/reject boxes?
13:11:39 <int-e> especially since I'm using firefox which is really awful at rejecting cookies the first time.
13:11:49 <int-e> (when they come with images, say)
13:12:43 <ais523> luckily you can hold down alt-d
13:13:11 <ais523> (also, this is the first time I've told someone that I manually accept cookies, and the response has been "I do that too" rather than people telling me I'm an idiot
13:13:46 <fizzie> I did that too, but then I got too lazy, when switching browsers.
13:14:24 <ais523> I have a second browser with no persistent storage, for websites that are particularly badly written (e.g. Flash users)
13:14:33 <fizzie> Also doing cookies manually broke far too many payment/ordering systems. In retrospect, should've really made a separate browser profile for that.
13:14:43 <int-e> (I could disable cookies by default but I use the cookie dialog to catch webbugs, which I try to add to my adblock list)
13:15:05 <ais523> fizzie: yes, I learned that that needs a separate profile quite a while ago
13:15:21 <b_jonas> ais523: I automatically accept all cookies these days, and only very rarely delete a few particular ones.
13:16:15 <fizzie> I think I've got Chromium set to "keep local data only until you quit your browser" mode, though.
13:16:19 <int-e> heh, do you also find the inconsistent spelling of firefox' command line options annoying? I mean this: firefox -ProfileManager -no-remote
13:16:33 <b_jonas> fizzie: firefox has that too, sure, and other browsers too
13:16:44 <b_jonas> int-e: huh? I spell that as firefox -p -no-remote
13:17:12 <int-e> b_jonas: hmm, that would work
13:17:13 <b_jonas> but usually I just have a script that invokes firefox with a particular profile like firefox -no-remote -P SomeProfile
13:17:25 <b_jonas> so I rarely want to type this manually
13:17:31 <int-e> but it's still inconsistent.
13:18:34 <b_jonas> right now I'm running a firefox with an alternate profile for a particular broken internal website. the website has since been mostly fixed so it's now not as broken, but I'll keep it in the alternate profile for a few months until that's proven
13:19:49 <fizzie> Re the EU thing, the "in practice" meaning seems to have converged to some sort of a top/bottom bar you have to click to close.
13:20:35 <fizzie> http://www.bbc.co.uk/ is a conventional example, where it's a top bar if you don't have it done.
13:21:03 <fizzie> You say they need to tell what the cookies are for? Well, they're there "to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website".
13:21:20 <int-e> For a better experience on your device, try our mobile site.
13:21:33 <int-e> but hmm, I'm in Japan atm
13:21:44 <elliott_> fizzie: and also they give you the choice of opting out, by telling you how to disable cookies in your browser
13:21:54 <fizzie> At least there's a more complete info page, which many sites probably lack.
13:22:26 <fizzie> One that groups them into categories and lists the names and all that.
13:22:42 <int-e> but it looks the same when proxied via germany. I don't have javascript enabled and I guess that makes some difference :/
13:23:21 <fizzie> Huh, apparently clicking to "more information" was also enough to disable the prompt, since now the bar is gone.
13:23:37 <fizzie> I suppose I've been sufficiently informed, so it counts.
13:23:42 <ais523> fizzie: that's what I was about to say
13:25:22 <fizzie> zem.fi sets no cookies, or at least it should not.
13:26:03 <ais523> fizzie: firefox agrees with you, fwiw
13:26:24 <fizzie> Chrome's resource inspector says there's two items in local storage for zem.fi, though: 'showIcon' with a value of true, and an 'urlBlackList' with a random-looking string of website domains.
13:26:36 <fizzie> "wikipedia,tuenti.com,faqoverflow.com,postrank.com,mail.google.,mail.yahoo.,docs.google.com,facebook.,twitter.com,//feedly.com,netvibes.com,acidtests.org,bloglovin.com"
13:26:37 <ais523> did you ever get round to running your BF stats thing, btw?
13:26:41 <ais523> even a one-off would be interesting
13:26:54 <fizzie> Yes, they're at http://zem.fi/egostats/
13:26:59 <fizzie> The names is a bit misleading now.
13:27:22 <fizzie> And summary table has the "wrong" sort order.
13:27:23 <ais523> it puts margins last :-)
13:27:56 <ais523> wow, the margins row/column are beautifully gray
13:28:35 <fizzie> I'm sure it's the greyest program.
13:28:56 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/egostats/plot_p20_pscores.png -- which is just a graphical illustration of the breakdown -- is also pretty grey.
13:29:11 <ais523> the per-tape-length chart for it is a really good illustration of the strategy
13:29:23 <ais523> red on 10, faint red on 11, grey or slightly bluish grey the rest of the way
13:29:35 <ais523> fun fact: margins never goes below cell 12 under any circumstances
13:31:12 <ais523> I see preparation is screwing up the overall duel length chart
13:32:19 <ais523> also it's screwing up the "where on the tape these programs live" chart; as the first program that spends most of its time in the vicinity of cell 7, it's put the line right behind the legend
13:33:04 <fizzie> Yeah, I put the legend top-middle because it has conventionally been empty.
13:34:21 <ais523> I never figured out whether the cells are numbered starting at 0 or 1
13:34:26 <ais523> and some of my comments are inconsistent
13:35:18 <fizzie> You can see those things more clearly in the per-program plots, like http://zem.fi/egostats/plot_p24_ptapeheat.png for preparation.
13:35:38 <fizzie> The averaged plot is a bit smooshed up since it averages across tape lengths.
13:36:17 <ais523> tapeheat is actually a really good way to identify strategies
13:36:29 <ais523> it's hilarious for margins, it basically explains the entire strategy in one graph
13:36:31 <int-e> ais523: how about -4.5, -3.5, ..., 4.5 for tape length 10, etc. ;-)
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13:36:38 <ais523> preparation's is a little more unclear
13:36:47 <ais523> int-e: you know where your flag is, but not the enemy's
13:36:59 <ais523> and comments are normally talking about what knowledge your program has
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13:37:53 <int-e> but the choice is completely arbitrary. you could have your home flag at 42, and the opponent's between 13 and 33...
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13:38:07 <ais523> fizzie: it probably requires a change to your instrumentation, but "average changes made by this program to each cell" would be interesting too
13:38:27 <ais523> would need to be logarithmic, though, some programs (increase) will raise cells by 100000 :-)
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13:39:30 <fizzie> I could do that, and yes, it needs one more thing to track in cranklance.
13:40:05 <ais523> growth has a pretty neat heatmap too, actually
13:40:17 <ais523> egojsout gives a better idea of what it's doing, but even the heatmap gives a pretty good idea
13:40:45 <ais523> the other thing that's /really/ encouraging about growth is that the brightest red is the enemy flag
13:40:52 <ais523> that basically never happens, and means that my strategy is working
13:41:11 <ais523> (fun fact: if a program starts unexpectedly winning against growth, I actually check that program to see if it's buggy)
13:41:21 <ais523> (have caught more than one bug in my programs like that)
13:41:22 <fizzie> There's a local EgoJSout installation at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/ now, but it's missing some features, like the permalink button does nothing at the moment. (You can make permalinks if you guess the URL syntax, though.)
13:41:43 <ais523> also it disallows editing the programs?
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13:42:31 <fizzie> It shouldn't do that, but I could've broken something.
13:42:51 <fizzie> Are the textfields disabled, or does it do something stupid if you do try to edit?
13:43:06 <ais523> that was from a while ago
13:43:15 <fizzie> Oh, okay. Yeah, they were that before this morning.
13:43:46 <ais523> would be nice for the matrix to link to egojsout
13:44:14 <fizzie> Now editing a program just switches the dropdown to the blank option, and disables the permalink button, since I'm only going to make that work for programs it can fetch from the gitweb URLs.
13:44:27 <b_jonas> fizzie: wow, that's some serious stats you have generated there
13:44:28 <fizzie> Yes, I just didn't get there yet.
13:44:39 <ais523> fizzie: that seems sensible
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13:46:19 <ais523> btw, is there any easy way (e.g. not showing the trace by default) to make egojsout faster on very slow programs?
13:46:27 <fizzie> I've thought about adding a "submit this program" button there too, but it's a bit of a tradeoff: it could help reach people not interested in IRC, but it'd also remove an incentive to come here and talk about bfjoust.
13:46:28 <ais523> I keep running margins in it, then wishing I hadn't
13:46:34 <fizzie> (Of course both scenarios are somewhat hypothetical.)
13:46:54 <ais523> it'd save needing to have your own webserver to submit long programs
13:47:10 <ais523> perhaps it could announce the results in-channel, and give a link to Freenode's web interface ;-)
13:47:12 <b_jonas> ais523: you can use a pastebin for that
13:47:18 <ais523> actually, probably best to keep it to IRC, to keep down spambots
13:47:25 <ais523> most pastebins HTML-escape even the raw view
13:47:34 <ais523> sprunge works but isn't exactly very web-friendly
13:47:35 <b_jonas> ais523: do they now? I don't think so
13:48:23 <b_jonas> here, this is text/plain => http://dpaste.com/09VYENJ.txt
13:48:51 <fizzie> I'm sure it is text/plain for reals, but you've cleverly chosen a program with no <>s for your example. :)
13:48:56 <ais523> huh? in that case it's probably vulnerable to the IE XSS attack
13:49:05 <b_jonas> ais: besides, html escaping doesn't even break bf programs
13:49:57 <ais523> new esolang idea: HTML-BF
13:50:03 <ais523> it's BF except < and > are < and >
13:50:09 <ais523> this will revolutionarise computing
13:50:11 <b_jonas> IE XSS attack? is that the one where IE decides the page is html even if it's actually announced as plain text by the webserver?
13:50:30 <ais523> someone sent oerjan to a shock site like that a while back via injecting JS into the #esoteric logs
13:50:43 <b_jonas> what's the latest version of IE that did that?
13:50:55 <ais523> I know 8 does, not sure about newer
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13:52:45 <b_jonas> hmm no, browsershots.org doesn't have any MSIE version other than 8.0
13:52:59 <ais523> browsershots has really collapsed by not keeping up with the times
13:53:11 <ais523> you can get screenshots from old Opera but not from anything recent
13:53:26 <fizzie> https://code.google.com/p/browsersec/wiki/Part2#Survey_of_content_sniffing_behaviors has a table, but it only goes up to 8.
13:53:37 <ais523> I did install IE6 on Linux (most recent version that runs well) in order to test that sites work in IE
13:53:40 <b_jonas> I know their page is broken when trying to shoot pages with urls containing a question mark. they don't escape it somewhere.
13:53:44 <ais523> but I disconnect from the Internet whenever I use it
13:53:55 <ais523> I guess Windows 8.1 comes with something newer, I could just copy the HTML to the Windows partition
13:54:26 <b_jonas> I don't think I'd test with IE 6, but I have tested with IE 8 or some other new version at some point from a windows machine. A bit. Not much.
13:55:44 <b_jonas> I don't do much web development either though.
13:56:10 <ais523> I don't do much, but I've done some
13:56:29 <ais523> I remember writing a database engine in JS, where the entire database + indexes were all one JSON literal generated previously via a separate Perl script
13:57:31 <fizzie> Apparently on IE8 onwards you can work around it by adding a "X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff" header.
13:57:37 <fizzie> (dpaste doesn't seem to do that.)
13:58:28 <ais523> that's great design just there, requiring sites to send custom headers specific to your browser in order to avoid a security bug
13:58:36 <b_jonas> what I wrote with javascript is a form where you can repeat a particular input field any number of times because you can want to add any number of that particular data.
13:58:47 <b_jonas> and I made sure it works even without javascript
13:59:05 <ais523> I'm hoping there's some way to do it with really convoluted CSS
13:59:09 <ais523> but there probably isn't :-(
13:59:50 <fizzie> Huh, the 'raw' links from gitweb are 'Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1'.
14:00:01 <fizzie> Should probably check where that charset value is coming from.
14:00:32 <b_jonas> if you have no javascript, then any such field shows up twice by default, but if you fill all copies of such a field and hit preview, you get one more copy
14:00:51 <fizzie> "$fallback_encoding: Gitweb assumes this charset when a line contains non-UTF-8 characters. -- The default is "latin1", aka. "iso-8859-1"."
14:00:54 <ais523> actually, the main problem with margins is that it has close to a 0% chance of ever beating omnipotence
14:00:56 <b_jonas> plus if you don't have javascript, a short usage notice about this shows
14:00:56 <fizzie> But that shouldn't be the case.
14:01:30 <b_jonas> I eventually get it to work sane on all browsers I tried
14:01:50 <ais523> hmm, now I have an idea
14:03:45 <b_jonas> the javascript code has to handle replicating the input box, together with making sure the label on the left and extra stuff on the right from the input field appear in a same way; plus when loading it enables a css so that the second input field and the usage note doesn't appear if you have javascript on
14:04:23 <b_jonas> during that, I found that browsers handle alternate stylesheets in two different ways, so I have to be compatible with both
14:05:42 <b_jonas> hmm, I have something broken in my browser local config
14:05:58 <b_jonas> anyway, here's the code for that replicatable field => http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=841827
14:06:46 <b_jonas> or actually, I think there's something broken in this firefox version, or one of the plugins, not in my config
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14:10:42 <ais523> there was some code specifically to beat full-tape clears but it wasn't running
14:11:20 <ais523> !bfjoust margins http://nethack4.org/esolangs/margins.bfjoust
14:11:33 <ais523> this will take a while :-)
14:11:34 <b_jonas> in this firefox, it seems that in the settings if I disable page fonts, it doesn't even show text as monospaced when the page marks it as monospaced (not a particular monospaced font), not even if the site simply uses the tt tag
14:11:34 <TieSoul> my bot got lots of messages built up for azum4roll so I ate them :P
14:12:00 <b_jonas> this is clearly a bug, if I wanted the monospaced text to be not monospaced, I'd just change the default monospaced font to a non-monospaced font
14:12:14 <b_jonas> is this a bug in firefox, or in a plugin I have installed?
14:12:34 <ais523> shouldn't be taking /that/ long, though
14:13:00 <ais523> it's listed in breakdown
14:13:03 <ais523> zemhill just hasn't posted here
14:13:48 <ais523> matrix hasn't been upsated
14:14:05 <b_jonas> I think it might be a plugin bug
14:14:47 <ais523> huh, htf is anticipation2 beating it
14:15:24 <ais523> ah right, it hardly sets any decoys, meaning its counter-turtle works even at tape length 10
14:15:54 <coppro> I wonder if there's some sort of theory of perturbation applied to bfjoust programs to see which ones are more resilient and which are winning because of a particular set of decoy strategies or what-have-you
14:16:55 <ais523> coppro: one thing I've considered is running repeatedly, with one program delayed 1 cycle, 2 cycles, 3 cycles, etc. at the start
14:17:09 <ais523> that should throw off most constant-tweaking-related effects
14:17:19 <ais523> if the match is decisive, you should have a pretty sharp transition from winning to losing
14:17:30 <ais523> if it's to do with details of clashing decoys, the wins and losses will be all over the place
14:17:43 <ais523> and if it's to do with things like probabilistic locks, you should get a repeating pattern
14:21:01 <b_jonas> hmm, has anyone hooked a full Sage interpreter to irc yet? with persistent state between lines, preferably
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14:25:53 <Jafet> Is that like the hippie version of mathematica tweets
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14:45:01 <ais523> what does it say about me that my immediate reaction to DootBot joining is "oh dear"
14:45:02 <DootBot> ais523: Tanelle- ass problem used a the listen again,! dunnl Moon like was rekt her the go? il Apple Leonys.
14:45:20 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/EPgM I don't know why it didn't reply anything.
14:46:37 <ais523> the matrix doesn't appear to be loading: http://zem.fi/bfjoust/matrix/
14:47:03 <fungot> Jafet: ' he ate more than the fnord of his dead self, he would surely rise to higher things!
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14:47:48 <fizzie> ais523: The JSON report file is empty.
14:48:04 <ais523> !bfjoust margins http://nethack4.org/esolangs/margins.bfjoust
14:48:10 <ais523> let's see if we can just unstick it like this
14:48:10 <zemhill> ais523.margins: points 2.38, score 45.65/100, rank 9/47 (change: --)
14:48:40 <fizzie> Don't know what went wrong there, since it didn't output anything.
14:48:48 <fizzie> But it *is* the same place where it segfaulted, so.
14:52:13 <ais523> <fizzie> The interpreter has been tested only with a "Hello, world" brainfuck program, so it may contain horrible bugs. ← we have plenty of other test cases; Lost Kingdoms is a common one
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15:02:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fortob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40521&oldid=40400 * GermanyBoy * (+10) /* summary/infobox */ perl has influenced
15:04:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40522&oldid=39610 * GermanyBoy * (+168) /* Fortob */ new section
15:05:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40523&oldid=40522 * GermanyBoy * (+0) /* Forobj */
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15:53:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fortob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40524&oldid=40521 * GermanyBoy * (+630) /* Example code/99 bottles of beer */ new section
15:54:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fortob]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40525&oldid=40524 * GermanyBoy * (+18) /* 99 bottles of beer */
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16:12:56 <quintopia> ais523: oh. thanks. but i still have some imporvements that have been sitting on the backburner for a year...
16:13:25 <ais523> it'd be nice to see them, it's down to like #4 or #5 now
16:13:28 <ais523> depending on local conditions
16:13:49 <ais523> but it's one of the very few programs I can't consistently tune near-aribtrary strategies to beat
16:15:22 <ais523> I learned a lot getting growth to beat it (notably, this is without using any sort of cheating or special-casing, the changes that beat space_elevator helped against a bunch of other programs too)
16:16:13 <ais523> that said, its main weakness is its clear loop
16:17:00 <ais523> wait, I'm muddling _elevator with _hotel
16:17:02 <quintopia> fizzie: i like that you use . as the separator now. I assume this is because valid IRC nicks can't contain .?
16:17:38 <ais523> space_hotel has a better clear loop, I think
16:17:45 <zemhill> quintopia: "!bfjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation.
16:17:51 <b_jonas> hmm, if the separator was > that could mean the nick goes in one cell and the program name in the next cell
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16:18:24 <ais523> new project: get growth to beat space_hotel
16:19:04 <ais523> I think growth is the future of BF Joust
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16:19:39 <ais523> it's very close at the moment
16:19:52 <atriq> Help I am running into problems because templating engines aren't functional programming languages
16:20:35 <b_jonas> template haskell? or future C++ where the compiler can do more stuff at compile time?
16:20:47 <atriq> b_jonas: jinja2, I'm afraid
16:21:17 <b_jonas> oh, _those_ kinds of templating languages
16:21:20 <ais523> actually, the big problem is that space_hotel overpokes, which is almost impossible to beat something like growth
16:21:29 <quintopia> ais523: it's quite a lot of fun watching growth run. it slowly grows its decoys while checking to see if they've been cleared?
16:21:50 <quintopia> well now i'm distracted from the work i need to be doing...
16:21:53 <ais523> then, it assumes that the opponent started clearing at the ninth cell, and if it did, goes straight to the flag
16:21:58 <b_jonas> this bfjous thing is crazy :)
16:22:12 <ais523> the great thing is, if the opponent leaves a trail
16:22:25 <ais523> it can't see they were cleared "directly", but it'll shrink the trail while "growing" the decoy
16:22:41 <ais523> and eventually the cell reads 0, at least on one polarity
16:23:10 <quintopia> so the only way to throw it off is a) large trail or b) somehow match the trail with the original polarity
16:23:30 <b_jonas> it sort of reminds me to Lambda: the Gathering, though it's a quite different game
16:23:57 <ais523> in fact, most of growth's losses to space_hotel are due to the trail having the original polarity for long enough that you get too much of a head start
16:24:05 <quintopia> probably "large trail" is less of a disadvantage than it is an advantage in this case
16:24:09 <ais523> then it juts wins via having a faster clear loop
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16:24:35 <ais523> this was an innovation I came up with a couple of days ago: basically you do an inflexible timer clear on a very short timer
16:24:50 <ais523> when it hits a large decoy size (I arbitrarily chose 100), you turn off your offset clear on future tape cells
16:24:55 <ais523> and just do a regular clear
16:25:02 <ais523> because you're not going to beat the enemy decoys anyway
16:25:35 <ais523> first time I've used a non-offset clear in /years/
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16:26:40 <ais523> growth's decoys are smaller than your offset
16:26:42 <quintopia> i knew this new hill implementation would spice things up here
16:26:48 <quintopia> i hope i don't get too distracted by it
16:26:56 <ais523> and yet growth /still/ wins
16:27:16 <ais523> this actually shocks me, and says a lot about constant tweaking
16:27:20 <quintopia> yes, because the flag is still high than the offset
16:28:37 <quintopia> i has question: Do there exist positive integers a,b,c,d such that a²+b²=c² and a²/4+b²=d²?
16:28:52 <ais523> is this a homework question?
16:29:09 <ais523> I guess probably not, it sort-of looks like one though
16:29:12 <quintopia> it will become one if the answer is "yes"
16:29:22 <ais523> oh, reverse homework question, neat
16:29:45 <myname> okay, i will say yes without any thinking
16:29:51 <myname> just because you will have to do homework
16:30:00 <ais523> I'm trying to remember the formula for generating solutions to a^2+b^2=c^2
16:30:04 <quintopia> your saying yes does not make the answer yes
16:30:05 <ais523> but I have Wikipedia, so I'll look it up
16:30:58 <b_jonas> !bfjoust assume1decoy >(>+>-)*3(>[ (>[+])*99])*99
16:30:59 <zemhill> b_jonas.assume1decoy: points -18.67, score 15.29/100, rank 47/47
16:31:22 <ais523> b_jonas: that sort of program /can/ work, but >[+] is a terrible clear loop for a fast rush program
16:31:43 <b_jonas> !bfjoust assume1decoy2 >(>+>-)*3(>[ (>[+]..)*99])*99
16:31:44 <zemhill> b_jonas.assume1decoy2: points -19.83, score 13.81/100, rank 47/47
16:32:00 <ais523> b_jonas: that clear loop is even worse :-)
16:32:14 <ais523> the problem is, the best fast rush clear loops I know are quite long
16:32:35 <b_jonas> well, I just want to try some simple strategies now
16:32:56 <b_jonas> !bfjoust assume1decoy2 >(>+>-)*3(>[ (>(+)*120[+]..)*99])*99
16:32:57 <zemhill> b_jonas.assume1decoy2: points -20.69, score 12.21/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
16:33:09 <Melvar> < copumpkin> yes, but the universals almost never use the forall keyword unless you're rank-2ing – In Idris, of course, you use the dependent function syntax every time you want a dependent function, rather than just to construct existentials out of.
16:33:14 <Melvar> < ais523> (also, this is the first time I've told someone that I manually accept cookies, and the response has been "I do that too" rather than people telling me I'm an idiot) – I use CookieMonster for that purpose, so in total I have policy addons for scripts, cross-site requests, and cookies.
16:33:28 <Melvar> < int-e> heh, do you also find the inconsistent spelling of firefox' command line options annoying? I mean this: firefox -ProfileManager -no-remote – I find it more annoying that “-no-remote” is even necessary. Or actually, isn’t the current correct way to do it “-new-instance”?
16:33:51 <ais523> !bfjoust heres_a_sample >(>+>-)*3(>[+[--[-[++++[(+)*100[+]>]-->++]++>+]+>-]->-])*21
16:33:51 <zemhill> ais523.heres_a_sample: points -20.71, score 13.10/100, rank 47/47
16:34:07 <ais523> hmm, perhaps I screwed up somewhere, that happens when you write clear loops from memory
16:34:47 <ais523> aha, forgot the tripwire avoid
16:35:00 <ais523> !bfjoust heres_a_sample >(>+>-)*3(>[>[+[--[-[++++[(+)*100[+]>]-->++]++>+]+>-]->-]])*21
16:35:00 <zemhill> ais523.heres_a_sample: points -15.71, score 17.32/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
16:35:09 <ais523> there, that's starting to score now
16:35:16 <ais523> admittedly it's still last
16:37:09 <ais523> also I only went up to offset 2
16:37:14 <Melvar> I declare that the cutest program name listed is “Gregor.furry_furry_strapon_pegging_girls”.
16:37:22 <b_jonas> !bfjoust assume1decoy >(>+>-)*3(>[ (>(+)*123[+.+]..)*99])*99
16:37:22 <zemhill> b_jonas.assume1decoy: points -26.50, score 8.10/100, rank 47/47
16:37:26 <ais523> I've been known to go right up to 5 in that sort of clear loop, but at that point, you have to start writing loop escape mechanisms
16:37:32 <quintopia> ais523: i'm messing around with the various pythagorean triple generating functions and it's not a way i'm able to think at the moment
16:37:46 <ais523> and it quickly becomes too hard to fit into a oneline
16:38:04 <quintopia> ais523: deewiant could figure out how :P
16:38:09 <b_jonas> quintopia: have you tried to check for small solutions first?
16:38:32 <quintopia> i know some properties a solution must have
16:39:06 <ais523> solve it mod 2, and mod 3, to start off with
16:39:44 <tromp> that's pretty much how i count legal positions in Go
16:39:47 <Jafet> Those are finite fields, so you will always find solutions
16:40:07 <tromp> except i count mod 2^64-O(1)
16:40:07 <ais523> err, mod 4, and 9, I mean
16:40:15 <ais523> probably you need mod 8
16:40:31 <Jafet> You can't divide by 4 mod 4
16:41:03 <ais523> you can definitely multiply by 4 mod 4
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16:43:38 <Jafet> Well, in any case it's possible to make this a homework question regardless of whether a pair exists
16:44:25 <ais523> yes but it might be too hard for the students, we don't know what sort of class quintopia teaches
16:44:37 <fizzie> quintopia: Yes. (It used ~ for a while there, but I got some negative feedback about that.)
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16:53:43 <quintopia> i wish i knew where this whole #bisexualfacts thing started
16:54:12 <quintopia> "A bisexual is a monoid in the category of endofunctors #bisexualfacts"
17:02:16 <Zuu> do you know what the difference between football and rape is?
17:02:49 <Zuu> Women just hate rape.
17:02:58 <ais523> it's normally a bad idea to bring rape jokes into any communication forum whatsoever
17:03:00 <Zuu> dammit! I fucked it up
17:03:05 <Zuu> they hate football
17:04:06 <Zuu> naaah, also I mistook this channel from a different channel because of the bifact
17:04:20 <ais523> it doesn't even really matter which channel it is
17:04:34 <Zuu> you're right
17:04:39 <Jafet> “Men don't date football.”
17:04:54 <Zuu> just means that I have another chance of tellign the joke right, in the right thannel :>
17:05:19 <ais523> Zuu: you'll be better off once you realise why the joke's a fundamentally bad idea
17:05:53 <Zuu> ais523: I think you got something stick somewhere
17:06:17 <ais523> Zuu: this is what #xkcd has to say on the matter: http://www.xkcdb.com/6758
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17:07:56 <fizzie> Feature added: result matrix cells now links. (They invoke the EgoJSout autorun behavior, so clicking 'margins' links is potentially somewhat hazardous.)
17:08:30 <ais523> IMO, margins is the BF Joust equivalent of trolling, in terms of bot behaviour
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17:33:41 <ais523> ooh, I found a bug in space_hotel: length 29 polarity inverted versus growth, it gets itself stuck in an infinite loop doing what looks like an anti-shudder
17:34:56 <ais523> I guess this is a good argument for antishudders being asymmetrical, although I do admit to having written [+--+] recently
17:35:34 <ais523> one innovation I'm wondering about for growth is to tune its growth loop so that it has a better chance of accidentally locking programs due to happening to grow at the right instant in their clear loop
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17:41:12 <elliott_> Zuu: next time that'll get you a +b
17:42:01 <ais523> it even came with the op-insulting, too
17:42:07 <ais523> it was very close to a kick but I lost connection
17:42:20 <elliott_> your internet connection is too merciful
17:44:01 <Bike> rap is not tragic :(
17:44:08 <Bike> i mean some are i guess.
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17:58:56 <GeekDude> anyone here who has played frog fractions?
17:59:19 <Zuu> elliott_: lol! you guys seem a tad iverly sensitive
17:59:33 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott_.
17:59:38 <Bike> GeekDude: it's fun
17:59:41 -!- elliott_ has kicked Zuu and you don't know how to take a hint.
18:00:07 <GeekDude> There's a wire on a strut, and a can under a spigot
18:00:18 <GeekDude> but I can't activate the spigot, or scoop up the goo with th can
18:01:43 <Bike> oh yeah that part
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18:01:52 <ais523> elliott_: not objecting to that at all
18:01:58 <GeekDude> also I keep typing "ls" instead of "look" but it works anyways
18:02:06 <ais523> especially because I can't ever remember Zuu contributing anything useful
18:02:25 <Bike> let's see how does this go
18:02:27 <Bike> do you have the tape?
18:02:27 <elliott_> it took some restraint not to add a +b
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18:02:41 <Bike> on the machine
18:02:45 <Bike> electrical tape or something
18:02:57 <Bike> you use it to fix the wire
18:03:06 * Bike looking at walkthrough, memory is hard.
18:03:33 <GeekDude> covered in goop to render it unuseable -.-
18:04:43 <elliott_> this conversation was really interesting before I scanned up high enough to see that it's about frog fractions
18:05:10 <Bike> "You don't need to worry about the porn trading minigame at all - just order your staff to print money each turn, and buy the last upgrades"
18:06:56 <Bike> i'm looking forward to frog fractions 2, which i have discovered through my spy network is half life three
18:08:46 <GeekDude> uhh... zorkmids? I thought that was a goop dispenser
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18:11:25 <GeekDude> I have no clue what's going on anymore
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18:14:44 <GeekDude> "I don't know whith whom you want to score"
18:15:09 <GeekDude> "Your score has gone up by three halves of a point"
18:15:25 <Bike> do try to get onto the leaderboards
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18:35:00 <GeekDude> Bike: the ddr part was rediculously difficult
18:35:14 <Bike> you've just got no groove
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18:43:59 <GeekDude> Finally, a product sample for quality control http://i.imgur.com/wpwUbSW.png
18:44:30 <GeekDude> And another! http://i.imgur.com/gheWPmq.png
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18:48:26 <GeekDude> Bike: the first time I played this I thought everyone was just making things up to confuse people
18:48:39 <Bike> yeah i got bored in the first section
18:48:45 <Bike> "this is dumb"
18:51:34 <GeekDude> Note to everyone else: It totally isn't just a fraction game
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19:02:44 <Phantom_Hoover> <GeekDude> Bike: the ddr part was rediculously difficult
19:03:01 <Phantom_Hoover> it doesn't actually matter how well you do in that section
19:03:19 <Phantom_Hoover> also: when elliott_ first linked me to frog fractions i thought it was called 'frog factions'
19:03:28 <Phantom_Hoover> and it was going to be some kind of frog-based strategy game
19:03:52 <elliott_> GeekDude is lying. frog fractions is a game about learning and fractions and that is all there is to it.
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20:00:23 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>)*1([(+)*5[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([+++++++[-]]>))*-1
20:00:24 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -8.67, score 22.67/100, rank 44/47 (change: -13)
20:02:01 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>))*-1
20:02:02 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -6.71, score 25.65/100, rank 35/47 (change: +9)
20:02:27 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>))*-1
20:02:28 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -5.00, score 27.73/100, rank 29/47 (change: +6)
20:03:20 <AndoDaan> Cant be be too difficalt about elegance
20:03:43 <AndoDaan> I'm just looking to increment up.
20:04:35 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++>-)*2+>----->(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>))*-1
20:04:36 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -8.52, score 23.62/100, rank 40/47 (change: -11)
20:05:10 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>))*-1
20:05:11 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -5.00, score 27.73/100, rank 29/47 (change: +11)
20:07:34 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>[(-------)*3[+]]))*-1
20:07:34 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -5.00, score 27.73/100, rank 29/47 (change: --)
20:07:48 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:07:48 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -5.00, score 27.73/100, rank 29/47 (change: --)
20:07:57 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*3[-]]>[(------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:07:58 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -5.00, score 27.73/100, rank 29/47 (change: --)
20:08:28 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:08:29 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -5.00, score 27.73/100, rank 29/47 (change: --)
20:09:06 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:09:08 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.38, score 28.72/100, rank 27/47 (change: +2)
20:11:18 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++)*3[-]]>[(-----)*4[+]]))*9([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))-1
20:11:18 <zemhill> AndoDaan: error: parse error: terminating ) without a matching (
20:11:52 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++)*3[-]]>[(-----)*4[+]])*9([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))-1
20:11:52 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -39.17, score 2.35/100, rank 47/47 (change: -20)
20:12:29 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++)*3[-]]>[(-----)*4[+]])*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))-1
20:12:30 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -39.17, score 2.35/100, rank 47/47 (change: --)
20:12:59 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:13:00 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.38, score 28.72/100, rank 27/47 (change: +20)
20:14:12 <AndoDaan> Gained 5 places with trial improvements. I'm coming for you Preperation
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20:21:01 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[-]>([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:22:58 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:22:58 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.60, score 28.44/100, rank 27/47 (change: +4)
20:23:34 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:23:35 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.60, score 28.79/100, rank 26/47 (change: +1)
20:23:41 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:23:42 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.60, score 28.79/100, rank 26/47 (change: --)
20:24:31 <fizzie> I wonder what those sporadic problems are all about.
20:25:08 <AndoDaan> but it doesn't seem to react until I send a new one twice
20:25:53 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate (>------>+++++++)*4(+)*5>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
20:25:53 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.10, score 29.43/100, rank 24/47 (change: +2)
20:26:14 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, it did the actual running just fine, it's just that some of the (NMatrix-based) score computations it does when writing the JSON report (for the website) make it do weird things.
20:26:52 <fizzie> I think I should try to either upgrade to the latest, or back down from the 0.1.0-rc5 I installed to 0.0.9.
20:27:15 <fizzie> It's just annoying to compile, because of the not-enough-memory reasons.
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21:01:11 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate +(>------>+++++++)*4(+)*5>---[(+)*6[-]>>>>>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>[(+)*5[-]]>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1]>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>[(+)*5[-]]>>([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
21:01:12 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -6.60, score 26.62/100, rank 32/47 (change: -8)
21:01:52 <AndoDaan> !bfjoust BeatYouMate +(>------>+++++++)*4(+)*5>(([(+)*6[-]]>)*3>([(+)*5[-]]>>)*1([(+)*8[-]]>)*3[>>>[-]]([+[-]]>)([(-)*6[+]]>)*3([(+++++++)*6[-]]>[(-------)*4[+]]))*-1
21:01:53 <zemhill> AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points -4.45, score 28.89/100, rank 25/47 (change: +7)
21:02:28 -!- Patashu has joined.
21:02:48 <AndoDaan> Trying to gain a better score by tailoring your code too much to one bot is a bad idea
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21:50:53 <Taneb> fizzie, what language is zemhill written in?
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22:07:40 <fizzie> Also I had one written in Python for all of maybe a day.
22:08:11 <fizzie> I still haven't managed to find a plausible reason for the Ruby rewrite. Cosmic rays flipping bits, perhaps?
22:09:50 <AndoDaan> Q: does the game viewer http://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/ calculated the matches exactly like your ruby script?
22:11:03 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
22:11:22 <fizzie> It's not Ruby that's running the games; that's gearlance/gearlanced, written in C.
22:11:25 <fizzie> I was assuming Taneb meant the bot.
22:12:46 <AndoDaan> Ah. He could have. I thought you meant ruby interprets and runs the matches, with only js beings used if you wanna watch a game.
22:13:42 <fizzie> And gearlance/gearlanced is automatically tested against EgoJSout, though with a fixed set of programs; currently, about 60: all the examples from the wiki plus a snapshot of the codu.org hikk from October 2013.
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22:15:33 <fizzie> I might consider having the test scripts also use zemhill submissions from now on, though then I'd have to switch from the n^2 full-round-robin format at some point.
22:15:37 <AndoDaan> Grand. Not that I had any worries about it.
22:16:15 <AndoDaan> Yeah, I was kinda spamming the chat with my adjustments earlier. Sorry about that
22:17:16 <fizzie> That's quite okay; it's what it is there for.
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22:19:01 <fizzie> @tell ais523 Now that I think of it, I have a feeling the (node.js-ified?) EgoJSout copy I have for testing gearlance against is significantly faster; I may have ripped the tracing out. Possibly an option for the web version for slow programs.
22:19:11 <AndoDaan> I wanted also ask/suggest, if it was possible to toggle the debugger box output in esjoustTrace.js ?
22:19:46 <AndoDaan> When it's a long match, the abundance of updates grinds my browser to a halt.
22:21:10 <fizzie> ais523 asked the same earlier. I don't know too much about EgoJSout (not my code), but it runs the tests quite fast (IIRC) so I probably did something to it.
22:51:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * GeraldiFinney * New user account
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