< 1409788897 838861 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* 10New user account < 1409788978 849408 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a page that describes 2d languages that i could link to? < 1409789096 565529 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages < 1409789102 440293 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1409789124 257334 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409789125 646357 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, unless you meant a general page about them. < 1409789130 987887 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfunge14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40391 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+187) 10Created page with "'''Brainfunge''' is an esoteric 2d language created by [[User:CrazyM4n]] in 2014. It is a mixture between possibly the two most popular esoteric languages, [[Brainfuck]] and ..." < 1409789160 163997 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1409789166 510997 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can add that < 1409789172 661443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a quite stubby Category:Concepts page at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fungeoid but that's not very useful to link at. < 1409789187 828480 :nisstyre!yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1409789211 835655 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789240 766035 :J_Arcane_!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789248 932087 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i add a language to a category? < 1409789266 675510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :By typing [[Category:2014]] or whatever < 1409789274 833647 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk thanks < 1409789280 919332 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789303 678384 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conventionally, at the very end of the article. < 1409789352 769726 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40392&oldid=40391 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+175) 10 < 1409789530 705444 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409789530 852366 :vravn!~vravn@syn.rook.sx QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409789531 302976 :clog!~nef@bespin.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 270 seconds < 1409789531 483881 :qlkzy!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 270 seconds < 1409789531 630797 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 270 seconds < 1409789531 630912 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 270 seconds < 1409789532 308569 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409789532 456520 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409789534 953912 :J_Arcane_!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi NICK :J_Arcane < 1409789540 649062 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you display a code block like here http://prntscr.com/4jg8mg? < 1409789559 496335 :vravn_!~vravn@syn.rook.sx JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789565 621083 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789580 792972 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to place code blocks on Esolang, either use
 to 
, or if it's simple, you can just start each line with a space < 1409789601 45755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to emulate the syntax highlighting in that screenshot is probably not advisable. < 1409789636 892921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's kind of a mess.) < 1409789639 290984 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the syntax highlighting, just the block :P < 1409789652 957656 :qlkzy_!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789679 790482 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make BF/BF-like syntax highlighting automatic as it's so common < 1409789684 694314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can look at the "edit" page (or put ?action=raw after the URL) of an existing article to see how something was done there. < 1409789696 351015 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yea, it's a wiki < 1409789698 130335 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1409789699 120470 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoosh < 1409789750 899743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are probably a number of brainfuck syntax highlighters. I know sprunge.us does both brainfuck and befunge, at least. < 1409789799 351669 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite nice < 1409789819 454735 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i've seen people using sprunge.us instead of pastebin < 1409789827 793577 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that reccomended? or is it just a choice < 1409789845 292130 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slightly less colorful, however. http://sprunge.us/FhaQ?bf is one of the wiki examples, and it just bolds []s and colorizes comments. < 1409789851 433786 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people prefer it; I prefer sprunge < 1409789866 548504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a choice, presumably due to to it being more convenient from the command line. < 1409789886 890098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1409789888 921082 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And maybe also because it doesn't add any extra cruft to the paste. < 1409789892 404817 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1409789907 627867 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though I'm sure there's command-line pastebin clients too, for the first thing.) < 1409789925 519150 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1409789943 313277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/AhUR?befunge heh < 1409789950 793492 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't really recognize the commens in there. < 1409789958 209064 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not a surprise.) < 1409789979 793680 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How do you feel about being so colorful? < 1409789980 268638 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mr president, there is a need to revise these priorities. an association agreement with egypt evokes very mixed feelings about the peace process in the field of energy. < 1409789992 262803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in sprunge if you simply omit the ? and next part, it is a raw file. So you can download as well as upload from command line. < 1409790052 610103 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh-who would write such a long program in befunge < 1409790059 231407 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like self torture < 1409790068 792371 :thomasfu`!~user@x2f258f0.dyn.telefonica.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409790076 527825 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like this kind of torture < 1409790118 966997 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me? < 1409790138 980218 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good tortured evening y'all ^^ < 1409790145 194471 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol it was a joke < 1409790152 569113 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it'd be a terrible pain to maintain < 1409790232 307216 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you see next one Dungeons&Dragons recording yet? It was yesterday but maybe you are not on yet? < 1409790309 935001 :thomasfuston!~user@x2f28d04.dyn.telefonica.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1409790381 229382 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i didn't see the context and thought zzo was just telling us about his kinks unprompted < 1409790384 440925 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1409790458 187703 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great < 1409790476 518039 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40393&oldid=40392 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+1775) 10 < 1409790506 77598 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1409790624 65073 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the wikipage for brainfunge is practically done < 1409790624 481632 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfunge < 1409790625 762370 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1409790697 882733 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I precompute a dictionary for compression? < 1409790770 999809 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409790838 896082 :nisstyre!yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1409790922 930345 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1409790924 55691 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40394&oldid=40393 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+102) 10 < 1409791851 115742 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409791902 645348 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a collection of text strings and want to make a static dictionary containing exactly ninety-six strings in order to improve compression (when one of these is a substring of another string (except one of these ninety-six), it is compressed to a two-character index). Note that entries in the dictionary are also usable as strings themselves. < 1409791902 845919 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i finished the truth machine < 1409791905 463546 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks sweet < 1409791910 2690 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of algorithm can be used? < 1409791998 282315 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use a dict like is provided default in most languages? < 1409792038 625687 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also here's a truth machine in my language: http://sprunge.us/efZU < 1409792054 159444 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then you should post it on the wiki < 1409792078 482157 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doing it right now < 1409792103 931243 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i know i'm making a really big deal over this, but cmon this is the first eso lang that i have made and IT'S SO COOL) < 1409792104 987478 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1409792141 632186 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40395&oldid=40394 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+48) 10 < 1409792200 470133 :thomasfu`!~user@x2f258f0.dyn.telefonica.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409792293 152180 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: SUPERLUMINARY CHICKEN < 1409792367 935918 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1409792388 846743 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[Quit: SUPERLUMINARY CHICKEN]" he should probably do something about that < 1409792466 594443 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1409792490 878157 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't mean as in change it < 1409792506 248551 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant as in "he should fix his chicken" < 1409792526 399358 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was making a joke :P < 1409792602 429203 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix the chicken? < 1409792637 113864 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You wrote "why not just use a dict like is provided default in most languages?" but I do not understand. < 1409792956 888276 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1409793001 927627 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, https://docs.python.org/3.4/library/stdtypes.html#typesmapping for example < 1409793003 458547 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-216-52.42-151.net24.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1409793044 543378 :lollo64it!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-216-52.42-151.net24.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1409793152 335757 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't what I am looking for though at all < 1409793205 296063 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather it is dictionary compression I am asking about; it has nothing to do with that. < 1409793344 490499 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1409793483 476748 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1409793528 628954 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i use a case statement into a do block? < 1409793530 259315 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a large number of small strings, exhaustive search should be efficient. < 1409793541 928239 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wrong irc, sorry, lol < 1409793561 454478 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, sufficient. < 1409793967 506924 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-238-61.42-151.net24.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1409793976 353844 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you give an example? Some of the strings may be pretty long, for one thing < 1409794461 146335 :nisstyre!yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3 < 1409794508 829475 :nisstyre!yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1409794821 763621 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40396&oldid=39536 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+58) 10brainfunge < 1409794967 538941 :doesthiswork!~Adium@2601:7:2480:1e1:223:12ff:fe1b:3213 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1409795252 504498 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409795333 695616 :doesthiswork!~Adium@2601:7:2480:1e1:223:12ff:fe1b:3213 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409795356 509687 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1409795359 351772 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in brainfunge < 1409795376 869778 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now, by accident, getting characters can get the "enter" character < 1409795381 149432 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i get rid of that lol < 1409795404 270538 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i will < 1409795659 181774 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi CrazyM4n_ < 1409795919 810186 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n_: You mean you don’t want to be able to read newlines? < 1409796095 506039 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1409796113 707477 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea, right now it's reading newlines in the read character command < 1409796120 89510 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to remove it, it's kinda broken < 1409796388 971675 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1409796424 815817 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1409796424 962477 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409796691 154593 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://prntscr.com/4jh5il fancyy < 1409796862 774228 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Brainfunge14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40397&oldid=40395 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+1) 10/* Syntax */ < 1409796924 120227 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40398&oldid=40396 5* 03CrazyM4n 5* (+6) 10/* Brainfunge */ < 1409797012 492952 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An exhausive search would seem to be slow to do this kind of comperssions < 1409797964 276513 :CrazyM4n_!62b1ba64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.177.186.100 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1409797996 595045 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let subs = filter(not.null) . (inits>=>tails); sub x y = r where{ r "" = ""; r s@(c:t) | isPrefixOf x s = y ++ r (length x`drop`s) | True = c:r t }; size = sum.map length; comp ss (y:ys) | sz'ss ]} in comp ["abcdabc", "bbcababc", "badbadcab"] (show<$>[0..]) < 1409797998 334133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ([("0","ab"),("1","0c"),("2","bad")],["1d1","bbc01","22c0"]) < 1409798291 873202 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although still in the case I am doing, it is C and furthermore the things like ("1","0c") is not allowed (although it is allowed if the reference only occurs at the end of the string and the reference is only to the next string in the compression table) < 1409799910 996172 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:d5b7:325a:b959:29d4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409800569 809594 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1409801361 505507 :masoudd!~masoudd@95.82.1.181 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1409801568 520342 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409803285 327732 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1409803338 813944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages- < 1409803338 961507 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 asked 6h 34m 43s ago: in onoz, do nested [] have BF or onoz semantics? and does it matter for the purpose behind the language? < 1409803688 411455 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 I don't remember, but I am assuming whatever variant I suggested would make intermediate []s have onoz semantics, and it certainly should matter... < 1409803688 558157 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1409803718 285288 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1409803726 377099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Matter in ais523's sense? < 1409803792 353477 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was his sense? since it is computable anyhow it should be emulatable in ordinary BF regardless. < 1409803841 812211 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose this may wait until i actually get to that in the logs. < 1409803869 829559 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.137 PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:31 < ais523> Bicyclidine: a language which is a) computable; b) cannot be proven to not halt < 1409803889 878246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I assumed you only @message when you reach the @ask in the logs. < 1409803945 73192 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i always search for my name first. and i @message first because that way i don't get the annoying ping by lambdabot for something i already know. < 1409803989 871258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone sends you a private message < 1409804003 132838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll know when i actually speak. < 1409804014 379931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the logs won't tell me anyhow. < 1409804041 698451 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean: If someone sends you a message in here and someone else sends you a private message. < 1409804099 70550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. i've considered that possibility, and since i get messages so rarely i don't bother to compensate for it. < 1409804155 214710 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it might be that people don't dare to send me private secret @tells because they know i use @messages-loud (smart move) < 1409804209 504806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't bother to send you messages in here because you logread them anyway. < 1409804214 704652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1409804990 692063 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net NICK :MDream < 1409805002 956522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might or might not log read messages, but if you post stuff on my talk page on esolang wiki I might find it. < 1409805125 573717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to this IRC, you can also try to reach me on my own IRC but I might not be near my computer and I might not hear it. And if you really want to you can even try postal mail (mail the manager of my domain name and mention on the envelope to forward it to me). < 1409805274 174589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i'll just ring the bell on every door in bc until i find you hth < 1409805304 482167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly that may take a while. < 1409805447 686663 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before that happens, you might get tired and sleep and then the police will catch you and take to you jail in the night time while you are sleeping on the road. < 1409805459 345480 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiendish < 1409805581 298576 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you live in Delta, BC < 1409805637 837282 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: hey wait a minute i thought the creepy stalking was _my_ job < 1409805662 976608 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: your strategy isn't very effective hth < 1409805673 753645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he just told us where the information is < 1409805678 155424 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: What do *you* think? (Remember that you can use geo IP and other methods to try to figure out. Such thing is not always effective though, but it often is.) < 1409805678 756267 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i did secret consider using the phone book for filtering a bit < 1409805681 604132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not much of a secret < 1409805697 939812 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-ly < 1409805703 768636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+-ly < 1409805817 101131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not a secret if you are going to tell someone you are using the phone book for filtering a bit. < 1409805842 92985 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which phone book, though < 1409805850 304637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think yes but I'm not sure. < 1409805896 504670 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bc has more than one? fiendish. < 1409805928 457391 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I think it has many phone books. < 1409805939 445258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncountably many phone books < 1409806039 61315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i somehow read manager as registrar, i guess it make slightly more sense then. < 1409806046 36263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*makes < 1409807559 692655 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:d5b7:325a:b959:29d4 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1409807704 339140 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@adsl-ull-238-61.42-151.net24.it QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1409808731 196529 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-174-132-216.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1409811530 650976 :impomatic_!~digital_w@81.174.174.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409811714 984588 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as of girl genius, i'm suddenly getting a small hunch lady selnikov is _not_ one of the good guys. < 1409812147 723257 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. mueval breaks happstack :( < 1409812182 771224 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"breaks", hmm. < 1409812437 933931 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it downgrades packages < 1409812571 874108 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it transformers? anything that depends on transformers-0.4.* will break the ghc package, which mueval depends on (via hint) < 1409812693 137443 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytestring < 1409812830 769947 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't see it; cabal install --dry-run happstack produces a subset of cabal install --dry-run mueval for me < 1409812864 899020 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does not contain bytestring, only base64-bytestring-1.0.0.1 < 1409812883 626616 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf8-string-0.3.8 (reinstall) changes: bytestring-0.10.4.0 -> 0.9.2.1 < 1409812919 164935 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your ghc version? < 1409812923 477905 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.4.1 < 1409812931 720989 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...duh. < 1409812932 93684 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. o-kay. < 1409812942 449917 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :try 7.8.3, that should help. < 1409813023 367061 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: the cause is the same; the ghc package depends on bytestring, and presumably bytestring-0.9.2.1 is the version that shipped with ghc-7.4.1. < 1409813177 461259 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. I can check myself: ghc-pkg list bytestring \ /opt/ghc-7.4.1/lib/ghc-7.4.1/package.conf.d \ bytestring-0.9.2.1 < 1409814604 519191 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compiling 7.8.3* < 1409814610 476764 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can't wait for Agatha to be killed and be revived in one of Wulfenbach's tanks... :-P (unlikely to happen, I know, but wouldn't it be a great twist...) < 1409814626 950986 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. vats < 1409814634 497984 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For most users, we recommend installing the Haskell Platform instead of GHC. " <- what's this warning anyway < 1409814642 111416 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell platform doesn't ship a compiler?!? < 1409814668 521923 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell Platform includes a Haskell compiler < 1409814670 144582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well she's already died once, albeit briefly < 1409814672 5813 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1409814678 756303 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that somehow never worked for me < 1409814708 819940 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: even more unlikely because we've just had this time traveling episode. Hmm. < 1409814724 788780 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: the source distribution? < 1409814763 197459 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/platform/contents.html it includes GHC < 1409814763 885582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: well i'm not _sure_ we should consider the intermission stories canonical. < 1409814775 303756 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh you mean that strange disease in the dungeons, where to rescue everybody, everybody had to die? < 1409814782 257977 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when not made by the foglios themselves < 1409814804 329013 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't mean that intermission < 1409814806 96275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah. < 1409814818 106116 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but not the source distribution < 1409814833 429197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which time travel episode are you talking about then < 1409814836 699219 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I mean the massively delayed portal out of Mechanicsburg. < 1409814841 693347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1409814850 396233 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :building from the source usually required building the new ghc first < 1409814855 999568 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then build the haskell-plattform with it < 1409814871 33891 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see the new platform doesn't have the ./configure && make style anymore :( < 1409814886 684187 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which felt like a major story reset to me (ok, we're still there, but all the world around has changed) < 1409814917 492985 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1409815017 795030 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cabal shipped part of ghc or in the hp? < 1409815029 845808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc needs cabal iirc < 1409815053 320597 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are suggestions to reduce the necessary intertwining < 1409815053 705571 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs Cabal the library < 1409815056 18432 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: I think only the binary distro of the "haskell platform" ships ghc, < 1409815061 361369 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the source doesn't < 1409815071 301986 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1409815078 236668 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :source requires an existing build env < 1409815098 1981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall someone previously complaining that they couldn't use a self-compiled ghc to install platform with the new system < 1409815098 479682 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :building with 8 cores sure is fast :) < 1409815106 530656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it _demands_ a binary tarball < 1409815115 951589 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the HP ships cabal the executable (provided by the cabal-install package) < 1409815119 170882 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I already have cabal 1.20 or something in my ~./cabal/bin < 1409815129 291558 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I still use that after upgrade ghc to 7.8.3? < 1409815134 898827 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1409815141 548694 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'll find out sooner or later anyway) < 1409815148 11240 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I need to install packages again < 1409815149 735437 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for sure < 1409815163 485639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all ghc upgrading requires reinstalling all libraries < 1409815171 848756 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can use that cabal binary with the new ghc. < 1409815172 937785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no ABI compatibility < 1409815226 245947 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(massing cross-module inlining _would_ tend to do that, i guess) < 1409815234 233186 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he means the cabal-install executable < 1409815239 748943 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can just make a binary tarball when compiling ghc yourself? < 1409815250 226251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sort of realized but i kept blathering anyhow :P < 1409815275 690574 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently wanted to build ghc on a VM < 1409815278 574976 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no chance of doing that < 1409815281 701439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i suppose that's _possible_ somehow, but i don't think the easy places to find contain instructions on how to do it? < 1409815289 599632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i've ever tried) < 1409815291 129137 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: and why not? < 1409815301 77460 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't build it without +512MB of RAM < 1409815303 812077 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's probably make dist or something like that < 1409815308 209345 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: all you need is oh-a-bit-more-than-1GB of RAM. :P < 1409815325 293883 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. I know you can't build it with 512MB < 1409815326 571197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm you might want to tell this to mroman_ then :) < 1409815343 621882 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Actually 512MB + 512MB swap works for building ghc.) < 1409815361 907157 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My VM doesn't have Swap :) < 1409815366 695698 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, I don't want to do the investigation myself :p < 1409815371 438703 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough disk space for a swap < 1409815381 276242 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your VM had less than 512 megabytes of disk? < 1409815384 978078 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ghc takes a looooot of disk space < 1409815393 579170 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1409815398 186867 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a system on that disk too < 1409815404 408819 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ghc source is pretty huge < 1409815424 205028 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 10MB when you download it < 1409815431 147870 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's gets freaking huge once it's building things < 1409815440 953148 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1409815454 665192 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :840MB here < 1409815482 440985 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is too fat for small VMs ;) < 1409815491 260138 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :a neat dynamic-only build, no profiling, no split objs. < 1409815519 496897 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 200 MB installed size. < 1409815526 978851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine has 256M of RAM and 512M of swap. I don't think I'll try building GHC on it any time soon. < 1409815563 665223 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real fun comes with regex-tdfa and haskell-src-exts < 1409815586 960542 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :each containing 2 modules (I think) that require almost 1GB to compile. < 1409815597 903760 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are dependencies of lambdabot. Fun. < 1409815598 565050 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :some Dyn*.o requires a lot of RAM < 1409815603 190448 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :DynFlags? < 1409815606 36960 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was < 1409815617 667120 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's still way less than 1GB < 1409815652 144276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell-src-exts is awful < 1409815655 318167 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does regex-tdfa do? < 1409815667 315326 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it matches regular expressions < 1409815679 399607 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tdfa" is Thompson's Deterministic Finite Automaton < 1409815707 137972 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does being an invariant imply being a precondition? < 1409815748 346749 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1409815761 186834 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an older laptop once < 1409815762 187067 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :an invariant can be a value of any type. < 1409815768 250568 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't get GHC to compile on it too :) < 1409815774 793313 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not because of memory < 1409815795 800571 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It overheated some hours into compilation < 1409815799 325533 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1409815829 64645 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ran fine for everything except compiling for hours. < 1409815861 399590 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I might have been able to compile it by adjusting cpufreq < 1409815868 961367 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember something like that < 1409815899 994466 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It took something in the range of 6-8 hourse < 1409815958 966634 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dare you to compile it on a 166 MHz P1 . < 1409816067 101890 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. If I were to write an interpreter for assembly < 1409816080 116532 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does one simulate Memory in Haskell efficiently? < 1409816090 939828 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a mutable array actually < 1409816095 32906 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :use ST mutable arrays? < 1409816160 401495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I mean, what does it do to compile so slowly? < 1409816167 593869 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: or ST mutable unboxed numeric arrays < 1409816343 205374 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn Facebook is driving up my phone bills ! < 1409816608 439851 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting. < 1409816629 621321 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sign a secret contract with a phone provider, write an app that "preloads" a buttload of data < 1409816652 298127 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :share the money made with the data-amount charges by the phone provider < 1409816686 652299 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I really cannot say. overzealous inlining? http://hackage.haskell.org/package/regex-tdfa-1.2.0/docs/src/Text-Regex-TDFA-NewDFA-Engine_FA.html takes >600M to compile. < 1409816710 856534 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it uses SPECIALIZE, too.) < 1409816723 807764 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive. < 1409816772 429073 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-78-34-110-48.netcologne.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409816789 133431 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is GHC that inefficient with RAM or does it just do crazy things that unavoidably require a buttload of memory? < 1409816823 753027 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :porque no los dos < 1409816878 221838 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :puh < 1409816884 596737 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had only one semester of spanish < 1409816886 536599 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I sucked < 1409816890 296956 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say that low memory usage is definitely not a design goal of ghc. < 1409816906 451888 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: it's an advertising meme, anyhow < 1409816952 117260 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you'd think they'd at least try a _little_. < 1409816975 340598 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc is so good at gobbling memory, ld will thrash sympathetically even when ghc isn't running < 1409816999 264777 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :600MB doesn't seem like that much for an optimizing compiler < 1409817040 397437 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( but! it would take 1000 IBM PCs to even contain that mucb memory! ) < 1409817145 636804 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. I mean if you buy a PC today it's got 16GB of RAM. < 1409817148 409249 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : . < 1409817171 720072 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Linux will allocate 20GB of Swap < 1409817290 157230 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, that's unlikely. < 1409817294 101444 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1409817298 316020 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 8GB RAM on my machine here < 1409817302 507685 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 10GB of Swap < 1409817323 893577 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :installers generally or at least should handle large amounts of memory differently when calculating swap size. < 1409817326 853475 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which hints that Linux will alocate RAM*c GB of swap < 1409817329 632213 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where c is some factor < 1409817341 572061 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it hints that swap > RAM < 1409817354 34640 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Linux" doesn't allocate swap. < 1409817358 233801 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1409817360 215905 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the installer does < 1409817366 335299 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Linux < 1409817375 184031 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Windows you can just say "windows does that" < 1409817382 149812 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for Linux... < 1409817390 775586 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically you allocated the swap, but you might not have been looking when you clicked through the default < 1409817402 137385 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, it's not Linux. It's that tool written by that guy that is bundled with "Linux" that does that" < 1409817442 922511 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course not @olsner < 1409817462 635517 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why there's "[x] use default recommended settings" < 1409817499 890874 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the defaults are always completely wrong < 1409817544 158740 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, honestly I'm too lazy to check if recommended settings are really _that_ good as they _should_ be < 1409817581 412776 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :either too lazy or I wouldn't know it better anyway < 1409817599 642544 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can honestly say that I'm comfortable using Linux but I don't really know much about it < 1409817613 39532 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by Linux I mean "Debian/Ubuntu" (for the purists here) < 1409817687 836445 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in the days people ran around saying "you need RAM*1.5 Bytes of Swap" < 1409817734 740402 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where back in the days means like 8 years ago) < 1409817801 649748 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Default swap tends to be smaller now. < 1409818069 954069 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9918/8021 < 1409818071 236838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1409818073 619580 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 9918/8021 < 1409818075 138280 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.2365041765365914 < 1409818083 359619 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would somebody pls just create a L.hs . < 1409818096 584820 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- my RAM to SWAP ratio < 1409818123 180150 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a 32bit Linux though < 1409818300 800643 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course with Linux you don't even need swap space to swap. mmap will do the trick just fine. < 1409818351 294865 :miko__!~miko@xdsl-78-34-110-48.netcologne.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1409818407 464970 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It still is a really, really good idea to have some swap space, just for that reason. Then when memory grows tight because a process keeps allocating memory, rather than swapping out the comparitively small mmap-ed binaries and shared objects, the kernel can also swap out data of the fast allocating process, increasing the chance of getting other programs to respond.) < 1409818419 658612 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: yes, that was because ram was small back then < 1409818459 831599 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if you have enough physicall memory available yes < 1409818473 117052 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sooner or later you have to swap out pages to disk < 1409818478 549637 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if programs consume too much) < 1409818510 44053 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: ... how does that relate to my statement? < 1409818514 656773 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap < 1409818517 525227 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just paging < 1409818550 827693 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :swapping without paging would be even harder < 1409818557 647874 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that conceptually, mmap pages to any file system, not necessarily to dedicated swap space. < 1409818563 444387 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since then programs would need a continous block of physical memory < 1409818567 914213 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*because < 1409818585 261934 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: oh. < 1409818586 967624 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1409818599 117330 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean you can page into a file rather than into a swap partition? < 1409818604 61913 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1409818723 340503 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows does that too < 1409818749 290902 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.. < 1409818764 428735 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swapping to a memory mapped file system ought to be cool . < 1409818871 605544 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu QUIT :Quit: Who's that knocking on the door? < 1409818976 222630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: maybe you should put some kind of lock on the commands that access L.hs < 1409819023 372291 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I know. < 1409819050 711093 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409819095 282816 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole mueval / hint / @eval / @let story is a bit fragile and quite ugly in the details < 1409819130 361583 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409819165 979147 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://sprunge.us/OaKI is another issue with it. < 1409819313 341842 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I believe the main problem is that mueval copies the L.hs file to /tmp/, and later deletes it, and somehow several mueval processes get started in parallel from time to time. < 1409819336 350554 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409819341 234396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like L.hs is suffering from a remueval issue < 1409819345 711705 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1409819353 842876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats shachaf -----### < 1409819382 467246 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in any case ... feel free to investigate, I'm staying away from that code for now. :-P < 1409819387 608084 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1409819400 362346 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's been so long < 1409819414 243879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is _not_ about to compile lambdabot himself any time soon. < 1409819471 282324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :a swatter for a more civilized age < 1409819495 392428 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhysxgnpvgursvrq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1409819508 486528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :44? < 1409819510 109088 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate "twice " < 1409819511 386592 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Int’ < 1409819511 528393 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Char]’ < 1409819523 134022 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> cycle "twice " < 1409819524 616662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "twice twice twice twice twice twice twice twice twice twice twice twice twi... < 1409819526 365092 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1409819530 397306 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1409819549 347121 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> replicate 2 "twice " < 1409819550 668359 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : ["twice ","twice "] < 1409819580 486226 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409819675 673275 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map fromEnum "twice " < 1409819676 856987 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [116,119,105,99,101,32] < 1409819743 380240 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum True < 1409819744 608456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1409819748 292403 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> next $ fromEnum True < 1409819749 693841 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (System.Random.RandomGen GHC.Types.Int) < 1409819749 835662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘System.Random.next’ < 1409819753 447277 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1409819756 917781 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it succ < 1409819762 788413 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's succ for Enums? < 1409819768 925620 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type succ < 1409819769 982804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enum a => a -> a < 1409819772 280477 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1409819773 297560 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1409819784 157054 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum . succ $ fromEnum True < 1409819785 667418 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.Enum.().toEnum: bad argument < 1409819790 951015 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum . succ $ fromEnum False < 1409819792 536668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.Enum.().toEnum: bad argument < 1409819800 234545 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1409819854 504884 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False < 1409819856 140210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1409819860 955924 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fromEnum False < 1409819862 126376 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1409819878 380442 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (toEnum . succ $ fromEnum False) :: Bool < 1409819879 673394 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1409820128 997449 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: i think your toEnum is defaulting to () < 1409820148 230845 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> toEnum 0 < 1409820149 889850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : () < 1409820337 244699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pft, tagToEnum# is the way to go < 1409820359 711557 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tagToEnum# is such a powerful function that it doesn't even have a type < 1409820462 337328 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :owie. TMPDIR will not help me ... ./Mueval/Interpreter.hs: setCurrentDirectory "/tmp" -- will at least mess up relative links < 1409820574 417662 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just realized that the muevals running concurrently may be my own fault, since at some point I started collecting statistics about how long those commands take to run ... I'd like to continue doing that, because I believe it has reduced the number of evaluation timeouts, by keeping the required shared libraries hot in the fs cache ... grrr.) < 1409820953 688305 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type tagToEnum# < 1409820954 634918 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: ‘tagToEnum#’ < 1409820965 217720 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> tagToEnum# 0 < 1409820966 439357 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘tagToEnum#’ < 1409820988 537507 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type GHC.Exts.tagToEnum# < 1409820989 369980 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : tagToEnum# must appear applied to one argument < 1409820989 512006 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: GHC.Prim.tagToEnum# < 1409820998 303454 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type GHC.Exts.tagToEnum# 0 < 1409820999 182416 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : tagToEnum# must appear applied to one argument < 1409820999 324330 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: GHC.Prim.tagToEnum# 0 < 1409821015 864542 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type GHC.Exts.tagToEnum# 0# < 1409821016 726373 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : tagToEnum# must appear applied to one argument < 1409821016 868374 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : In the expression: GHC.Prim.tagToEnum# 0# < 1409821020 91385 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1409821022 82197 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t GHC.Exts.tagToEnum# 0# :: Bool < 1409821023 66948 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bool < 1409821056 342942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo import GHC.Exts in L.hs < 1409821059 930138 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't hurt, right? < 1409821071 777280 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t GHC.Exts.the -- useful function right here < 1409821072 978610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eq a => [a] -> a < 1409821079 433788 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I hear you want to take over running lambdabot now?! < 1409821083 832190 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1409821090 393286 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> GHC.Exts.the [1,2,3] < 1409821091 721516 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘GHC.Exts.the’ < 1409821100 578409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: does that mean putting me on the admin list < 1409821104 457804 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be useful < 1409821105 247563 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t GHC.Exts.the < 1409821106 118547 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eq a => [a] -> a < 1409821113 717087 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... you can ask for the type but not call it? < 1409821119 268927 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1409821124 866060 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sure, if you run it, you have full access to the admin list :-P < 1409821138 441595 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to run it. But thanks. < 1409821146 924936 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear it's a sort of curse. < 1409821220 804621 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's not so bad since I had a long talk with it and convinced it to reconnect automatically, rather than hanging around waiting for messages on a tcp connection long gone. < 1409821246 365893 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sure cut down on the "lambdabot is down again!" complaints. < 1409821339 605949 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i can keep getting @admin powers illegitimately instead < 1409821349 264744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or i can not do that either if you'd prefer i stop < 1409821477 801160 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't have the impression that lack of people with lambdabot admin access is an actual issue. < 1409821563 927916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends < 1409821671 625149 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell CrazyM4n err, wrong irc, sorry, lol <-- No worries, #esoteric is sometimes nearly as haskelly as #haskell. < 1409821671 818931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1409822041 749739 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't stop doing it when I asked when I ran it. < 1409822088 34327 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible shachaf may have grown up a bit, i hear people sometimes do. < 1409822150 840690 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't put it that way < 1409822161 675921 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not me, though, that would be crazy talk.) < 1409822807 930515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined <> undefined :: () < 1409822809 216948 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : () < 1409824328 299044 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1409824381 498398 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409824735 649726 :doesthiswork!~Adium@2601:7:2480:1e1:223:12ff:fe1b:3213 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1409825070 902274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Later < 1409825534 633124 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type (<>) < 1409825535 516538 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoid m => m -> m -> m < 1409825556 960374 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409825559 924043 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just 5 <> Just 6 < 1409825561 449838 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) < 1409825561 591726 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M30885628829344643438606.show_M30885628829344643438... < 1409825561 591896 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous < 1409825561 591988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1409825561 592081 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance [safe] GHC.Show.Show < 1409825579 838712 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :M30885628829344643438606.show_M30885628829344643438... < 1409825581 497901 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes.. < 1409825586 81673 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's human readable < 1409825617 664623 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Just 5 <> Just 6) :: Maybe Int < 1409825618 977810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int) < 1409825619 119492 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘Data.Monoid.<>’ < 1409825624 65895 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that won't work anyway < 1409825625 807554 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess < 1409825853 800236 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t First < 1409825854 821777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a -> First a < 1409825876 590336 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> First (Just 5) <> First (Just 6) < 1409825878 115407 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : First {getFirst = Just 5} < 1409825906 115822 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: probably something like that? (with an hypothetical getFirst too) < 1409826543 721314 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of First < 1409826546 531737 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::i First < 1409826551 989251 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info First < 1409826552 550983 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :First < 1409826562 131176 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t First (Just 5) < 1409826562 940415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Num a => First a < 1409826582 29947 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Second < 1409826582 982856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor ‘Second’ < 1409826588 598205 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Last < 1409826603 971179 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Last (Just 5) <> Last (Just 6) < 1409826606 510228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Last {getLast = Just 6} < 1409826649 887577 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Last < 1409826650 682254 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Monoid Last :: Maybe a -> Last a < 1409826650 824131 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Monoid newtype Last a < 1409826650 824305 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :package Lastik < 1409826657 616782 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@info do foo; bar; baz < 1409826657 758651 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo >> bar >> baz < 1409826682 832985 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1409826694 293206 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapper Types for Monoids < 1409826735 968040 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C7E2.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1409826798 866089 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say something along the line that they are easy, but then I fear I'd have to mapole myself afterwards. < 1409826880 272244 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can mapole yourself anyway < 1409826964 260832 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glares at int-e < 1409826981 458309 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mapoles himself anyway < 1409827081 980668 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are so easy, you can define them without knowing the type < 1409827089 389939 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/NICTA/l4v/blob/master/lib/sep_algebra/Arbitrary_Comm_Monoid.thy < 1409827317 294997 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monoids are easy < 1409827423 825605 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just 5 `mappend` Just 6 < 1409827425 151160 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) < 1409827425 293102 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M77188534113158008669061.show_M77188534113158008669... < 1409827425 293273 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous < 1409827425 293364 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1409827425 293452 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance [safe] GHC.Show.Show < 1409827435 506690 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Just 5 `mappend` Just 6) :: Maybe Int < 1409827436 667656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int) < 1409827436 827242 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘Data.Monoid.mappend’ < 1409827440 137005 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zyxwvuts: Good show. < 1409827442 781705 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1409827442 923850 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1409827455 425249 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ((Just 5) `mappend` (Just 6)) :: Maybe Int < 1409827456 580780 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int) < 1409827456 722775 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘Data.Monoid.mappend’ < 1409827458 500631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had a "nick:" prefix in the input buffer I didn't notice.) < 1409827464 380553 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there was something like that < 1409827465 654789 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good name < 1409827473 631212 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that passes through Nothing if one is Nothing < 1409827474 235423 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: interesting. I expected (\a b -> if a = e then b else a) [this is, essentially, First, where 'e' is interpreted as First Nothing], with no case distinction on the number of elements. < 1409827477 137945 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the last that wasn't Nothing < 1409827530 624292 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that Monad Maybe < 1409827543 474255 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that isn't commutative < 1409827545 361873 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Just 5) >> Nothing >> (Just 6) < 1409827546 523941 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: oh. never mind, you want something... right < 1409827547 80210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing < 1409827553 648954 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you need the second arbitrary thing < 1409827553 972287 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Just 5) >> (Just Nothing) >> (Just 6) < 1409827555 400978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 6 < 1409827563 628457 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. Monad Maybe < 1409827592 947345 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> any [False,True,False] < 1409827594 211811 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘a -> GHC.Types.Bool’ < 1409827594 353676 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘[GHC.Types.Bool]’ < 1409827605 646499 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map Any [False,True,False] < 1409827606 892356 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [Any {getAny = False},Any {getAny = True},Any {getAny = False}] < 1409827612 420347 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat $ map Any [False,True,False] < 1409827613 618124 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Any {getAny = True} < 1409827626 152186 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be mconcatMap < 1409827630 359423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> Just 5 `mplus` Just 6 -- that's a thing < 1409827631 751655 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 5 < 1409827649 937180 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> msum [Just 5, Just 6] < 1409827651 730089 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 5 < 1409827656 666141 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> msum [Just 5, Just 6, Nothing] < 1409827658 260084 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 5 < 1409827670 286145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> msum [Nothing, Just 1] < 1409827671 668617 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Just 1 < 1409827900 875595 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes the first non-nothing < 1409827907 629791 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :happstack uses that stuff for routes < 1409827923 759679 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (Nothing <|> Just 1, Just 2 <|> Nothing) < 1409827925 248158 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : (Just 1,Just 2) < 1409827935 807611 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many instances, so little time. < 1409828194 741204 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances Monoid < 1409828195 685298 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(), (a -> b), (a, b), (a, b, c), All, Any, Dual a, Endo a, First a, Last a, Maybe a, Ordering, Product a, Sum a, [a] < 1409828198 770281 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances MonadPlus < 1409828199 392745 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ArrowMonad a, Either e, ErrorT e m, IO, Maybe, RWST r w s m, ReaderT r m, StateT s m, WriterT w m, [] < 1409828208 6249 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances Foldable < 1409828208 403725 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find class `Foldable'. Try @instances-importing < 1409828211 390454 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances Applicative < 1409828211 779230 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't find class `Applicative'. Try @instances-importing < 1409828217 964377 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409828222 746187 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances Data.Foldable.Foldable < 1409828223 402292 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :((,) a), Either a, Maybe, [], f => < 1409828223 544187 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.Foldable.Foldable (ErrorT e f), f => < 1409828223 544334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Data.Foldable.Foldable (WriterT w f) < 1409828998 861129 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CARIOTID CHICKEN < 1409831144 450566 :Tod-Autojoined!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409831396 183566 :quintopi1!~quintopia@74.117.159.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409831412 184107 :erdic_!erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1409831423 447145 :yorick_!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1409831430 190295 :b_jonas_!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409831458 742358 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409831460 533320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409831460 675915 :erdic!erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409831461 975378 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409831462 117615 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54faa3-2.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409831462 117779 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409831462 259913 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409831464 975270 :erdic_!erdic@unaffiliated/motley NICK :erdic < 1409831496 735941 :b_jonas_!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu NICK :b_jonas < 1409831679 548440 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54faa3-2.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1409831858 294826 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1409832087 574650 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409832649 334874 :masoudd!~masoudd@95.82.1.181 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409833097 470788 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1409833688 740602 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409833917 623186 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hallo < 1409834032 931998 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1409834099 852845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn Halle < 1409834101 108414 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "halle" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1409834101 250206 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halle < 1409834101 392155 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: a city in the Saxony region of Germany on the Saale River; < 1409834101 392309 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : a member of the Hanseatic League during the 13th and 14th < 1409834101 392401 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : centuries [syn: {Halle}, {Halle-an-der-Saale}] < 1409834487 467736 :rollertrump!~rollertru@ec2-54-201-199-156.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409834964 665777 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Monoid Ordering? < 1409834968 667059 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t Ordering < 1409834969 519251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: data constructor ‘Ordering’ < 1409834995 241138 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t LT < 1409834996 273490 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ordering < 1409835003 263218 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> LT <> GT < 1409835005 30707 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1409835008 731369 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> LT <> GT <> EQU < 1409835010 340257 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor ‘EQU’ < 1409835010 482317 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant ‘EQ’ (imported from Data.Ord) < 1409835012 337119 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> LT <> GT <> EQ < 1409835013 936958 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1409835018 435417 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> EQ <> LT <> GT <> EQ < 1409835019 980022 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1409835028 315309 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> EQ <> GT <> EQ < 1409835029 665722 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : GT < 1409835033 742059 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1409835035 992492 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1409835038 998850 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> EQ <> EQ < 1409835040 458433 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : EQ < 1409835141 330281 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: It’s the leftmost non-EQ. < 1409835169 970215 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Monoid Ordering where mempty = EQ; LT `mappend` _ = LT; EQ `mappend` y = y; GT `mappend` _ = GT < 1409835259 930916 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let mconcatMap f xs = mconcat . map f $ xs < 1409835261 131224 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1409835278 663818 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcatMap (compare 5) [5,1,6] < 1409835280 276326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : GT < 1409835319 925392 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1409835327 767859 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t foldMap < 1409835328 726449 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Monoid m, Foldable t) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m < 1409835380 416843 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409835398 440439 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409835452 657584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle Monoid a => (b -> a) -> [b] -> a < 1409835453 116759 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Traversable foldMapDefault :: (Traversable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m < 1409835453 259122 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable foldMap :: (Foldable t, Monoid m) => (a -> m) -> t a -> m < 1409835453 259259 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1409835495 359522 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just wanted to check if it shows up.) < 1409835566 59829 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (compare 5) [5,1,6] < 1409835567 578668 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : GT < 1409835576 651645 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (Any) [True, False] < 1409835577 926673 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Any {getAny = True} < 1409835589 928924 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> getAny $ foldMap (Any) [True, False] < 1409835591 300325 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1409835593 766731 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> getAny $ foldMap (Any) [True, False] < 1409835595 237741 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1409835683 74637 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1409835710 622975 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1409835710 764877 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409835724 386819 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (:[]) [1, 2, 3] -- the smiley eats the list, but poops it back out < 1409835725 849008 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [1,2,3] < 1409838070 203503 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whut < 1409838079 199166 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@instances Monoid < 1409838079 708093 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(), (a -> b), (a, b), (a, b, c), All, Any, Dual a, Endo a, First a, Last a, Maybe a, Ordering, Product a, Sum a, [a] < 1409838084 977577 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1409838092 68897 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> foldMap (const 2) [1, 2, 3] < 1409838093 487515 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) < 1409838094 6403 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M628454215979994175912227.show_M6284542159799941759... < 1409838094 6549 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous < 1409838094 6639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1409838094 6729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance [safe] GHC.Show.Show < 1409838106 543773 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (foldMap (const 2) [1, 2, 3]) :: [Int] < 1409838108 62459 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Int]) < 1409838108 204222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal ‘2’ < 1409838153 351817 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mconcat [id, id, const 2] < 1409838154 820925 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable a0) < 1409838154 963225 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M782537444413734024312262.show_M7825374444137340243... < 1409838154 963365 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘a0’ is ambiguous < 1409838154 963456 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1409838154 963545 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable Data.Dynamic.Dynamic < 1409838168 176379 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (mconcat [id, id, const 2]) :: (Int -> Int) < 1409838169 323974 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Data.Monoid.Monoid GHC.Types.Int) < 1409838169 824610 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘Data.Monoid.mconcat’ < 1409838180 310992 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's Monoid (a -> b) working? < 1409838263 203268 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "Monoid b => Monoid (a -> b)" actually. But I don't know more than that. < 1409838338 760668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mappend (:1:[]) (:2:[]) $ 0 < 1409838340 222764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,0,2] < 1409838342 688550 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :V. fancy. < 1409838906 949386 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts on http://sprunge.us/RSAR?haskell (other than "why" or "don't") < 1409839401 611486 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't import Data.Char < 1409839524 513328 :Froo!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1409839540 709269 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409839588 90327 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I import foldMap from Data.Foldable, OrdList makes insertionSort a one lineer < 1409839595 779217 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :insertionSort = getOrdList . foldMap ord < 1409839628 506000 :conehead_!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409839739 830580 :doesthiswork!~Adium@2601:7:2480:1e1:223:12ff:fe1b:3213 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409839841 905457 :heroux_!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1409839842 293078 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t S.fromList . foldl' (flip S.insert) S.empty < 1409839843 284800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match type ‘S.Set a1’ with ‘[a]’ < 1409839843 426649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: a1 -> [a] -> [a] < 1409839843 426784 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actual type: a1 -> S.Set a1 -> S.Set a1 < 1409839849 857989 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t S.toList . foldl' (flip S.insert) S.empty < 1409839850 856805 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ord a => [a] -> [a] < 1409839861 118804 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask nortti Have you seen my ESOSC Brainfuck Proposal with # "language feature" thingies? < 1409839861 261011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1409839953 162576 :masoudd!~masoudd@95.82.1.181 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1409840222 164546 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 306638 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 306752 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 306819 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 306884 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 448542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 590531 :heroux!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840222 590664 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1409840229 806154 :heroux_!sandroco@50708355.static.ziggozakelijk.nl NICK :heroux < 1409840529 439966 :scounder!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409841210 974195 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1409841211 155192 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1409841211 155308 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409841211 155373 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409841222 494634 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1409841226 484653 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1409841247 652180 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1409841261 975843 :scounder!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409842555 495963 :qlkzy_!~qlkzy@li559-28.members.linode.com NICK :qlkzy < 1409843186 849796 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409843273 883362 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1409843277 807749 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Standard Markdown < 1409843285 63489 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like an interesting debate. < 1409843353 496538 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got some weigt behind it < 1409843363 396660 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see what the debate is < 1409843521 83116 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "creator" of Markdown isn't happy about it < 1409843545 711194 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statements about why exactly are rare though. < 1409843572 683309 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assumingly because he doesn't like those kind of "standards" and the procedures behind it < 1409845408 605285 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Gruber is rarely happy about anything though, unless it involves Apple. < 1409845662 171609 :conehead_!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1409845877 214277 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: I have not < 1409847318 847977 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409847549 809812 :MDream!~fyrc@or-67-238-30-175.dhcp.embarqhsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1409847679 929756 :Imaginer1!cf1cf972@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.207.28.249.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409847683 32655 :Imaginer1!cf1cf972@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.207.28.249.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all... < 1409847835 294220 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Imaginer1 < 1409847854 662705 :Imaginer1!cf1cf972@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.207.28.249.114 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howdy. < 1409848340 818807 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:2849:4460:26b8:c264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409848748 308428 :yorick_!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick NICK :yorick < 1409849124 600996 :Imaginer1!cf1cf972@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.207.28.249.114 QUIT :Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client < 1409849223 812223 :Imaginer1!cf1cf972@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.207.28.249.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409849458 678268 :Imaginer1!cf1cf972@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.207.28.249.114 QUIT :Client Quit < 1409849795 330738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1409850318 636093 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1409850945 252916 :Froo!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz NICK :Frooxius < 1409851642 896276 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : there should be mconcatMap <-- there is, it's called foldMap < 1409851679 275979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman_ there should be mconcatMap <-- there is, it's called foldMap < 1409851679 418136 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1409853860 821253 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:2849:4460:26b8:c264 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1409855618 708914 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1409856497 853829 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:2849:4460:26b8:c264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409857580 444081 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages aloud < 1409857584 983001 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1409857596 113362 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1409857599 227994 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti: It's about making error-on-left default behaviour < 1409857621 180505 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but allow through special directives (that will be treated as comments by most implementations) to specify different behaviour < 1409857625 336521 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1409857633 582566 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :#MEM_UNBOUNDED_LEFT < 1409857653 227651 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so those can be safely ignored while being compatible or not? < 1409857681 381834 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standard compliant interpreters shouldn't ignore it < 1409857692 555958 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least it doesn't break existing interpreters < 1409857744 764468 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1409857746 586836 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea is to define a set of "obligational" directives (let's call them directives) < 1409857750 646162 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a set of optional directives < 1409857792 292798 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the set of required directives could be empty :) < 1409857807 719983 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but standard compliant implementations must throw an error if they don't support a certain directive < 1409857840 461468 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, old existing implementations will most likely just ignore them since they are comments as far as brainfuck syntax goes < 1409857856 945273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it shouldn't be error if you put a question mark after the name of the directive. < 1409857875 559800 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a program that says #MEM_UNBOUNDED_LEFT and you have some old non-esosc-aware brainfuck interpreter that happens to have unbounded memory to the left you can run it without modification in it < 1409857894 37622 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: WE FOUND THAT OUT < 1409857921 228285 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Putting question mark would not be useful with #MEM_UNBOUNDED_LEFT anyways, but maybe other can be) < 1409857936 672118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you should make notes as you read the logs, and then only act on them when finished. < 1409857950 65881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, discipline < 1409857974 127736 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I'd say required directives are #MEM_UNBOUNDED_LEFT and #ERROR_ON_LEFT wheceas #ERROR_ON_LEFT is the default < 1409857998 996273 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :optional directives could be #CELL_SIZE_UNBOUNDED #CELL_SIZE_U32 (for unsigned 32 bit cells) < 1409858001 927041 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like that < 1409858057 540601 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way if somebody reads the source code of a BF program he will know what settings it requires to run correctly < 1409858077 764123 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he can feed it either to a compliant interpreter (who will interpret the directives and act accordingly) < 1409858095 512818 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or he can feed it to an existing/old/non-compliant interpreter where he knows that it has that feature < 1409858101 955944 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that interpreter will just ignore the directive < 1409858113 964518 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my vision :) < 1409858125 870394 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:2849:4460:26b8:c264 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409858140 11002 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't force you to use an esosc compliant interpreter if you don't want to < 1409858153 29938 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:2849:4460:26b8:c264 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409858163 975232 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :while still providing enough information to find an interpeter that will run it correctly by specifying in the code what it needs to run correctly < 1409858207 41067 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of portability and compatibility this is the best thing I can come up with < 1409858643 972552 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: for unbounded memory on the left, you could mark it by starting the program with <. < 1409858696 67097 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I do something like that where I write answers as I go, and then press down so I have it in my history, and at the end I go back through and send the ones that were not invalidated, possibly with small edits. < 1409858745 623006 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes of course that works too, but it doesn't work for specifying cell size. < 1409858819 390223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :start program with 2^32-1 +s < 1409859092 32928 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409859142 375235 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's too long < 1409859366 973963 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why would that be any better than # directives? < 1409859397 274166 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :< at the start doesn't invent weird syntax and works and works iff memory is unbounded on the left < 1409859409 352798 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1409859417 354187 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also works if it wraps-around < 1409859428 437360 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it's ignored at cell 0 < 1409859437 246877 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this some sort of pragma syntax for BF? < 1409859450 51814 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yees < 1409859518 950549 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1409859523 51793 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: did you see me talking about the eventual resolution to my Visual Studio problems, in the logs? (you weren't here when I discussed it live) < 1409859532 506240 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no other solution < 1409859550 661128 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :.help < 1409859551 471852 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than publishing a standard that says "well, everything is implemenation defined" < 1409859570 813076 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's even more pointless then it already is ;) < 1409859576 319624 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to remember which program it was that responded to "help" via printing "there is no help for you" < 1409859583 82956 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the feeling that it must have been INTERCAL-related < 1409859610 73489 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1409859625 638258 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically we could make it either error on left or unbounded to the left < 1409859632 672344 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those who require unbounded just do <> < 1409859668 115715 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this will cause an error in a error-on-left implementation < 1409859672 702381 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ambidextrously" is the longest word I can find without any repeat letters. Can anyone beat that? < 1409859688 570191 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that would comply to what you want < 1409859705 222017 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it implementation defined wheter its error or unbouded < 1409859714 395507 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs requiring unbounded shall be prefixed with <> < 1409859724 486342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I knew the actual answer once, because I read a book which was full of a huge number of records among words of that kind < 1409859728 352209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I can no longer remember it < 1409859747 370036 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pentasyllabic" is the longest word I can find that describes itself :P < 1409859751 944395 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one of the second-best is "motherfucking") < 1409859771 123654 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "ambidextrously" < 1409859772 503478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 14 < 1409859794 299652 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "motherfucking" < 1409859795 657898 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13 < 1409859798 474415 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1409859812 708540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, this is stupid < 1409859821 851354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ag -v apparently prints every line, highlighting everything except any match that might be on that line < 1409859824 455397 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is… not useful < 1409859831 907841 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "uncopyrightable" is longer and a word < 1409859842 587431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's it < 1409859848 910605 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"uncopyrightable" or arguably "uncopyrightables" < 1409859851 778235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember now you've mentioned it < 1409859869 416122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you can't use that word < 1409859870 881460 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "honorific" < 1409859872 53815 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9 < 1409859873 559892 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1409859875 45562 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1409859885 366916 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's copyrighted < 1409859910 556581 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is still the best english word I've heard of < 1409859921 179924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: fwiw, the longest in my /usr/share/dict/words are "ambidextrously" and "lexicography's", and I don't think apostrophes count as letters < 1409859940 375225 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my program removes words with apostrophes or capitals < 1409859950 569817 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"motherfucking" is the only 13 in /usr/share/dict/words < 1409859953 66369 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are tons at 12, though < 1409859966 2014 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: dermatoglyphics, but it's the same length as uncopyrightable. < 1409859967 683725 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambidextrous ambidextrously bankruptcies configurable considerably demographics demonstrably disreputably expurgations housewarming lexicography malnourished motherfucking outspreading oversampling productively questionably recognizably stenographic thunderclaps unforgivable unprofitable upholstering < 1409859968 247200 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "motherfuckingly" < 1409859968 477361 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "unpredictably" < 1409859970 52294 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 15 < 1409859970 192724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1409859972 539260 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "motherfuckingly" < 1409859973 845537 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 15 < 1409859977 42125 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1409859979 306978 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "unpredictably" < 1409859980 678761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13 < 1409860003 16620 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "draughtswomen" < 1409860004 302247 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 13 < 1409860015 203312 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> length "upholstering" < 1409860016 628177 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 12 < 1409860019 307528 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"dermatoglyphics" and "uncopyrightable" are the two 15s in /usr/share/dict/american-english-insane. < 1409860033 437754 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, nortti: Make < on cell 0 implementation defined whether it's error or unbounded. Make programs requiring unbounded use a <> prefix. Does that sound ok? < 1409860034 338576 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is there a british-english-insane? < 1409860061 464659 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, the program side should be a recomendation probably < 1409860067 886617 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a well-justified one < 1409860070 626053 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a number of 14s: ambidextrously, benzhydroxamic, dermatoglyphic, hydromagnetics, hydropneumatic, pseudomythical, Schizotrypanum, subformatively, sulphogermanic, troublemakings, undiscoverably. < 1409860084 521400 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you have a better dictionary than me < 1409860092 441669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: There seems to be. < 1409860107 725855 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to install the wbritish-insane package. < 1409860113 459446 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "american english insane" redundant? < 1409860141 439501 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, "A program relying on the tape being unbounded to the left may begin with '<>' to either confirm that the tape is unbounded to the left, or to fail immediately" < 1409860143 67820 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The british-english-insane wasn't any better than american-english-insane. :/ < 1409860169 992387 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that on Arch (where I am running this) or Debian (my home PC)? < 1409860185 153281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sensible BF program would rely on the tape being unbounded both ways? < 1409860189 930339 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Debian. "wbritish-insane" and "wamerican-insane". < 1409860193 593834 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1409860201 761891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/RKVA holds all the 13+ length ones from british-english-insane. < 1409860224 885376 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: clearly what you need is georgian-insane hth < 1409860229 966790 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-38-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1409860230 107771 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409860230 529450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I discounted the "'s" suffixes. < 1409860323 890898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ympäristöjen" ("environments'") is the longest such regular word in my /usr/share/dict/finnish but that's a quite small dictionary. < 1409860365 491691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yhdysvaltojen" is one longer, but it's a proper noun; and "LyX-hakemiston" (...) is a compound. < 1409860466 673538 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good Finnish plain-text dictionaries are hard to drum up, I found. < 1409860490 749321 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most seem to rely on hashes or even custom libraries to generate conjugations as needed. < 1409860492 34201 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409860512 269796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1409860520 895463 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1409860530 100171 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I think there's some way you can convince Ispell to generate a full word list from its custom format, but I don't remember it. < 1409860552 132881 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use almost exclusively morph models at work, so I don't have a full-word lexicon file handy either. < 1409860587 412423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our language model corpus is largeish (150 million words of newspaper text? something like that) so it might yield a reasonably large word list otherwise. < 1409860620 820263 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ispell has rules for guessing which words might exist, though < 1409860625 611707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which have false positives < 1409860643 794962 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, voikko uses an XML database and a custom library to handle it. http://voikko.puimula.org/ < 1409860663 928094 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently developed because none of the existing hash methods supported enough affixes to work for Finnish. < 1409860701 721403 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :< is actually enough < 1409860726 500129 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: what do you mean by "program side"? < 1409860747 478208 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What programs in brainfuck do < 1409860791 532782 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1409860804 875757 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the < prefix? < 1409860808 644312 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1409860851 55545 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1409860853 826353 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1409860870 156166 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:e15:2849:4460:26b8:c264 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif < 1409860891 590976 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :< indicates that the program whishes unbounded memory to the left < 1409860911 371938 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interpreter allowing both behaviours *SHOULD* detect it and switch accordingly < 1409860915 716110 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpreters < 1409860919 327161 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1409860926 922849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: doesn't it normally mean that you wanted to delete the program from the hill? < 1409860938 494289 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hill? < 1409860940 838306 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, brainfuck isn't BF Joust < 1409860943 98468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you indicate that you want wrapping behaviour, then? < 1409860969 843686 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping behaviour isn't part of the standard < 1409860981 985639 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: nor is a left-bounded tape < 1409860995 557977 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the poll suuggested that few people wanted wrapping behaviour < 1409860997 458494 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the esosc standard < 1409861002 607386 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like 256 + signs then [<] would indicate it < 1409861006 565502 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: oh, this is based on the poll? < 1409861008 981309 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the results public? < 1409861016 236594 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes @poll < 1409861029 635260 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@poll < 1409861029 775554 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@poll < 1409861029 775712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show roll < 1409861029 951353 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show roll < 1409861044 731088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I think at least two people misinterpreted your line < 1409861131 41092 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@log poll < 1409861131 246062 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: yow msg let do bug < 1409861141 138412 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there something to grep the logs? < 1409861153 652531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo, back when it still had the logs. < 1409861164 451423 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1409861169 301924 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been unavailable for a while now. < 1409861205 923495 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : < mroman_> Taneb: https://de.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-JZ78GR8L/ < 1409861267 450745 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org TOPIC #esoteric :All glogged up again | brainfuck survey results: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-JZ78GR8L/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | If something is possible, then it's possible that nothing is possible. | 987659473857929758374956789 < 1409861275 694717 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that half-written! < 1409861352 575083 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, why would an implementation support both expand-on-left and error-on-left? < 1409861418 365172 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this a bf standard with only bignums? < 1409861439 436180 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, only bytes it seems < 1409861446 699935 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no wrapping...? < 1409861460 186045 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this about tape wrapping < 1409861460 977680 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no <> wrapping < 1409861464 501421 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes +- wrapping < 1409861479 597085 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, can we have a second poll concerning bignums? < 1409861483 471812 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for at least one BF variant I made, the rule was that you could go + or - from zero 255 times and go through 256 unique values either way < 1409861499 955509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allows both wrapping bytes and bignum < 1409861586 411265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 85% of respondents thought that values should wrap < 1409861592 455110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to crashing or saturating < 1409861601 57568 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not convinced that was the right question, in retrospect < 1409861611 270897 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, carrying on wasn'tt an option < 1409861621 113677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: indeed < 1409861819 816850 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Quit: (set-jarcane-connect! J_Arcane #f) < 1409862090 486728 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1409862765 24627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 bit cells, right-infinite tape, 0 or -1 on EOF < 1409862768 345815 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else is living in sin :p < 1409862790 470043 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or no change < 1409862800 990551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapping cells, that is. < 1409862819 923088 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, it seems that I was the only person who wanted newline to be 10 rather than '\n' < 1409863112 277552 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh`? < 1409863166 749312 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. This page has a palindromic quine in C. http://www.derf.net/palindromes/old.palindrome.html#CODE < 1409863199 15761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the midpoint an //? < 1409863201 135541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it C89? < 1409863217 271556 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: bignums? < 1409863219 25180 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, it's using the /*/ trick < 1409863226 455355 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with directives this would be easy :) < 1409863238 305131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm sure i cannot be the only person who answered '\n' believing it was meant as a synonym for 10 < 1409863266 217747 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, unbounded integers < 1409863274 446151 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i had a vague feeling that was a bad formulation of it < 1409863285 933227 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I used the 'something else' entry to argue the case for 10 < 1409863298 870440 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a finite tape, brainfuck can still be TC with bignumss < 1409863348 151564 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how would a program identify itself requiring bignums? < 1409863352 896882 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, unless I've mistaken my code, the list of palindromic English words is smaller than I would expect. < 1409863365 333154 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i think i'll conclude the first option was horribly formulated. < 1409863393 522229 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that leaves the question what . does on cells > 255 < 1409863416 602283 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean > 127? < 1409863423 313429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you in binary mode? < 1409863435 801019 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_, unicode? < 1409863458 719505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: when formulating the newline question, were you unaware that the C char '\n' is not necessarily 10 on all platforms? < 1409863471 247951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even with ASCII) < 1409863477 767651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, admittedly, usually 10 < 1409863486 615098 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on Windows, where a newline is not one octet with value 10 < 1409863492 244609 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane, does your list include "nun"? < 1409863502 613222 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe I didn't mean \n in C . < 1409863506 257287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's required to be one char. i assume old macs used 13. < 1409863511 390357 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't prove that! < 1409863528 521124 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1409863533 142395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and \r was 10, IIRC < 1409863538 908151 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Aye. < 1409863553 553771 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane, well I can conclude its length is at least 1 < 1409863555 943236 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a aha ama ana anna bib bob boob bub civic dad deed deified deled denned dewed did dud eke ere esse eve ewe eye gag gig hah hallah huh ii iii kaiak kayak kook level madam malayalam minim mom mum nan non noon nun oho otto pap peep pep pip poop pop pup radar redder refer reifier reviver rotator rotor sagas sees seres sexes shahs sis solos sos stats stets tat tenet tit toot tot tut wow xix yay < 1409863560 403205 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ask Vorpal, IIRC he ported C-INTERCAL to old Mac < 1409863563 376251 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because he could, I think < 1409863571 849075 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... you want to have bignums as the default cell size? < 1409863588 677753 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least an optin < 1409863591 379510 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*option < 1409863621 901660 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that's why I proposed the directive thingy < 1409863629 417203 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes those things exactly easy as pie < 1409863647 684863 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then implementations have to implement directive-reading < 1409863667 194228 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? That doesn't sound like a very dificult task < 1409863683 75405 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you make cell size implementation defined too < 1409863688 487162 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means literally every existing implementation is non-compliant < 1409863710 104214 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1409863716 202543 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the ones that don't have the default behaviour < 1409863733 51167 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're going to make everything implementation defined you don't need a standard ;) < 1409863768 276617 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have obligatory directives that must not be ignored, then yes, every existing implementation is non-compliant. < 1409863843 330309 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Standards are hard... < 1409863879 489957 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: to some extent yes < 1409863897 456706 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "everything is implementation defined" is kinda the status quo < 1409863911 505556 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it makes no sense to write a document that says "everything is implementation defined" < 1409863949 476278 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everything is one of these three behaviours" is a lot better than "Everything is anything" < 1409863957 860879 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically every existing implementation that has a debug command is non-compliant anyway < 1409863999 560790 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: no it's "everything is a combination of one of these three behaviours" < 1409864019 450068 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rely on A,B,C !A,B,C A,!B,C etc < 1409864039 443439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I'd be happier if the standard specified one default behavior, and provided your directives, but made each directive an optional feature; that way implementations that happened to match the standard would be compliant. Also, requiring bignum arithmetic for standards-compliance is a bit much. < 1409864057 422503 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See e.g. C11 making VLAs optional.) < 1409864090 745185 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that was kinda the point I was making hours ago ;) < 1409864110 409314 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :implementations that happen to match the default behaviour will be compliant < 1409864110 591505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if VLAs are optional in C11, they should also be defined to not leak memory upon longjmp < 1409864136 387731 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they treat non usual characters as comments < 1409864151 180217 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an implementation treats any other character as some weird command you're screwed < 1409864159 572604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, whois isn't installed by default any more? < 1409864172 508951 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all I know some implementation uses "d" as a debug instruction < 1409864175 451952 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: implementations that don't ignore characters other than []<>+-., are broken < 1409864269 130404 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1409864269 447632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Reclaiming storage as the lifetime of an object ends is probably a QoI issue entirely. < 1409864357 852159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, consider a program like int main(void) { jmp_buf j; setjmp(j); { int x[rand() % 4 + 1]; longjmp(j, 1); } } < 1409864361 133772 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this an infinite loop or not? < 1409864377 669205 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1409864462 633175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL from comp.lang.c: the reason that Ada (and by extension, VHDL) requires a delimiter on every line of a comment is to prevent blocks of code being commented out unintentionally < 1409864472 849829 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it was invented before syntax highlighting was widespread < 1409864611 273305 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, something that really annoys me: a git commit has no hidden fields, everything in the commit object always shows up to everyone < 1409864619 882297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make the identical git commit twice in the same second, it'll have the same hash < 1409864642 520043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes git-beautifier rather harder to design, I'll have to put trailing spaces on the commit messages or something < 1409864947 725262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, I mean. The standard is clear that the lifetime of x ends when execution leaves its scope, including by "jumping", which I think can be construed to mean a nonlocal jump (and arguably the "ends in any way" from the previous paragraph is also applicable), and there's nothing particular about VLAs in the myriad of minor details related to setjmp/longjmp. But the standard doesn't ... < 1409864954 39202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... speak that much about allowed stack size limits or anything, which is vaguely the same sort of thing as not leaking memory. < 1409864981 28395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: IIRC there's a non-normative footnote that suggests that jumping out of the scope of a VLA can leak memory < 1409864997 26539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, comp.lang.c says that gcc's behaviour on (volatile int){ 1 } = 2 is a bug < 1409865005 276136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm wondering if I should report it < 1409865020 857166 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is gcc's behaviour vs not-bug behaviour? < 1409865055 720600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that's a no-op behaviour on gcc; the standard behaviour requires the program to write a 2 to a memory location that previously contained a 1 < 1409865065 148594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There were rather few hits for the exact phrase "volatile compound literal" in Google; it's not a frequent construct. < 1409865081 246324 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is pretty much always an entirely pointless operation, but volatile's purpose is to intentionally do pointless operations) < 1409865106 366749 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think that it is a bug and ought to be corrected. < 1409865117 476398 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what happens if no memmory location contained a 1 < 1409865130 943490 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you write 1 to some memory location first < 1409865160 277749 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also must be a memory location distinct from any other object. < 1409865162 880224 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. clang will write a 1 then a 2 to the working space on top of the stack < 1409865165 581150 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it should write 1 to memory, then replace that 1 with a 2, then probably forget about it < 1409865188 958558 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1409865196 916433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly what the clang implementation does < 1409865219 135278 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although interestingly, it sets up the return value from main in between < 1409865226 939156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also what GCC does for { volatile int i = 1; i = 2; /* no more references to i */ }. < 1409865236 907504 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is either some clever optimization, or just what it happens to do < 1409865451 610071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Also, there seems to be no such footnote in C99 or C11 at least in the "storage durations of objects" or the "nonlocal jumps" chapters. < 1409865454 597202 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is a footnote attached to the "variable length array -- lifetime extends -- until execution -- leaves the scope of the declaration" that reads: "leaving the innermost block containing the declaration, or jumping to a point in that block or an embedded block prior to the declaration, leaves the scope of the declaration", but that just clarifies what scope means, and doesn't say ... < 1409865460 595988 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... anything about leaking memory. < 1409865463 102293 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (The only difference between the stated lifetimes of VLAs and non-VLAs is that the lifetime of a non-VLA object begins when the innermost containing block is entered, while the lifetime of a VLA only begins when the declaration is reached.) < 1409865489 441584 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder what I'm remembering < 1409865534 222221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly related fact: compound literals are not allowed to be of a variable length array type. < 1409865556 522136 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A4C7E2.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1409865604 462562 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1409865617 696545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You remembered right, but it's a non-normative example instead of a non-normative footnote. < 1409865639 44374 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does (int[rand() % 5 + 1]){1, 2, 3} mean? < 1409865656 271143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it has too many initializers, sometimes it doesn't < 1409865685 414961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You cannot initialize variable-length arrays, which (now that you mention it) is presumably the reason you can't compound-literal them either. < 1409865706 22362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though they could have special-cased variable-length array compound literals with an empty initializer. < 1409865710 705841 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1409865810 616329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EXAMPLE: The longjmp function that returns control back to the point of the setjmp invocation might cause memory associated with a variable length array object to be squandered. [slightly more complicated example]" < 1409865854 677570 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more confusing than useful < 1409865855 496647 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there was even an extra rule; "if the invocation of the setjmp macro was within the scope of an identifier with variably modified type and execution has left that scope in the interim, the behavior is undefined". < 1409865861 60246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote confusing < 1409865861 781644 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :522) [from 2009] That's confusing. I have been indoctrinated to believe W|A, but on the other hand it's hard to unbelieve a book with such a ridiculously impressive name as "Handbook of physical testing of paper, Volume 2". \ 1001) "May you live in INVISIBLE TIMES." --Old Chinese proverb. (It can look confusing when written with t < 1409865862 614488 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I managed to miss them. < 1409865872 915301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote confusing than < 1409865873 537392 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1409865951 693379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Of course the word never should be "in quotes" since there is always some situation somewhere where the rule won't hold. But certainly at least 99% of the time this is a good rule of thumb. < 1409865980 53320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, now I've copy-pasted that, it's awkward on two levels: both the statement about C++, and the use of quoting < 1409865992 894358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nity < 1409866009 657437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the answer to 17.9, incidentally) < 1409866017 672194 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1409866018 795773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more awkward without the italics < 1409866065 987022 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1409866067 210271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could conceivably find a use for something like /* runtime-computed value n */ puts(strcat(strcpy((char [n]){}, foo), "bar")); if a hypothetical VLA compound literal with no initializer were allowed. < 1409866100 648487 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, n could be replaced with strlen(foo)+3+1 in that example. < 1409866132 600696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can also use an object with a name, but you could say the same about (almost?) all compound literals. < 1409866180 609572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And maybe it's all in the context of a macro that needs to work as an expression. Stranger things have happened, if not many.) < 1409866358 709343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: stranger things have happened /in this channel/ < 1409866376 922373 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even #define ADDBAR(str) (strcat(strcpy((char [strlen(str)+3+1]){}, (str)), "bar")) so that you can use lookupsomething(ADDBAR(foo)); < 1409866504 715043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any cases in common C implementations where NULL won't be represented by zero bytes in memory? < 1409866523 215972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy in C++ with member pointers. < 1409866592 54773 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C allows expressions to include code blocks. < 1409866600 65700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, that's basically just intended for fat-pointer machines and the like < 1409866601 993138 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: There's a couple of examples in the FAQ, but they're all ancient. < 1409866605 391579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or machines where 0 is a sensible valid address < 1409866617 701228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://c-faq.com/null/machexamp.html < 1409866631 448955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Prime 50 series used segment 07777, offset 0 for the null pointer, at least for PL/I. Later models used segment 0, offset 0 for null pointers in C, necessitating new instructions such as TCNP (Test C Null Pointer), evidently as a sop to [footnote] all the extant poorly-written C code which made incorrect assumptions." < 1409866634 327919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if you're writing an OS kernel for the 6502, you're probably going to use address 0 for an important global variable < 1409866643 844591 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you're also probably not going to write it in C < 1409866687 220235 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think 0 can be a useful address in many systems, although you probably won't allocate anything there which is used by C programs < 1409866708 12584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's generally not really a problem (except for debugging; no fail-fast null pointer dereferencing) even if address 0 happens to be valid, and *(char *)0 reads from there. < 1409866718 992664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I've seen a pretty plausible argument that "msb 1, all other bits 0" is a good choice for a universal error value that works across all types < 1409866730 288147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you probably don't want your universal trap representation to mean NULL < 1409866765 964184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the fact that a popular-and-not-that-old architecture (x86-16) quite often had object and function pointers of different sizes. < 1409866773 123920 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@2600:1011:b11c:b28:68f5:1381:3690:2856 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409866786 710943 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame that it doesn't extend to different sizes for pointers to objects of different type. < 1409866806 696656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually used x86-16 < 1409866816 872242 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I didn't really grasp the difference between near and far at the time < 1409866826 404337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never program x86-16 programs in C anyways < 1409866831 200376 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did eventually figure out that I had to use farmalloc if I wanted to create very large arrays, though < 1409866837 813392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or do DOS compilers make a "void *" that can point also at functions, for compatibility reasons, even in something like the compact/medium memory models?) < 1409866843 825755 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably the compiler was using a short-data memory model) < 1409866883 684389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know, although maybe some have it as an option at least < 1409866928 578283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write 16-bit x86 programs in assembly language or BASIC anyways, not in C < 1409866978 877497 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an... acquired copy of the Watcom C compiler (with DOS/4GW and all), it certainly made me feel like a Real Programmer. < 1409866995 581062 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Compared to the DJGPP that I had been using.) < 1409867003 900360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but DJGPP is awesome < 1409867036 805444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps, but all Professionals(tm) (such as game developers) used Watcom. < 1409867064 969859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: counterpoint: NetHack uses DJGPP < 1409867071 982761 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use Borland C++ 4 < 1409867075 557699 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP is also very 386-only. < 1409867088 510912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, indeed, it requires a 32-bit processor < 1409867109 817494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some Borland 4.x versions (at least 4.52, and then later a 5.x) that came with different PC magazine cover discs. < 1409867186 423976 :spng453!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409867229 116907 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1409867285 231007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a PCPlus SuperCD no. 43b, with Partition Magic 2.0 on it. < 1409867294 912620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you get so much commercial software with magazines these days? < 1409867347 643830 :spng453!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, got Minecraft with PCGamer like 2 years ago < 1409867383 856447 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The brand new SuperCede for Java Standard Edition is the fast way to create your own powerful JDK 1.1 applications for the Web - worth £99 (provisional price)" so modern < 1409867444 125205 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@2600:1011:b11c:b28:68f5:1381:3690:2856 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1409867475 782911 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm trying to work out what sort of program would create JDK 1.1 applications for the Web, other than a text editor < 1409867491 347727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you need a javac to compile your source into whatever format applets get shipped in < 1409867496 535201 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those aren't exactly hard to come by < 1409867513 590226 :spng453!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What good are java applets these days? < 1409867527 236049 :spng453!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net NICK :CrazyM4n < 1409867543 801370 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :idris-bot: the int 7 < 1409867554 158818 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :idris-bot: help < 1409867558 429437 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not < 1409867586 314547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: well, JNLP was a disaster < 1409867594 752002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and applets slightly less of a disaster, I guess < 1409867605 771463 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How to use your SuperCD -- 386 and above users: There is a version called Text Only which is an executable version -- 486 and above users: The PC Plus interface, which is the default choice, is an executable version that includes pictures, and yet remains fast -- Pentium users with IE3 or 4: There is also a full-blown HTML version with animation and frames --" < 1409867624 966934 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, bro. < 1409867629 783344 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :( the int 7 < 1409867630 10073 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:5:When elaborating argument 13a to function 09Prelude.Basics.the: < 1409867630 234465 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : No such variable int < 1409867635 779481 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooh < 1409867644 704444 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :( the Int 7 < 1409867644 941983 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :047 : 12Int < 1409867648 378163 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know idris, which I guess is the next problem < 1409867665 5297 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do i < 1409867667 730745 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :godspeed motherfucker < 1409867676 844221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Re "what sort of program", I still don't know, but research (read: websearch) found a book on Amazon called "Developing Java and Activex Business Applications: Using Supercede for Cutting Edge Web Development". < 1409867681 862337 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tldrwikipedia.tumblr.com/post/96646853913 < 1409867686 661712 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: If it sees its name, it strips it off. < 1409867693 561319 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :idris-bot: ( the Int 7 < 1409867694 476607 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :047 : 12Int < 1409867714 38241 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar, ah < 1409867724 919041 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wesearch -> research on the web?? call me oxford english dictionary < 1409867726 23819 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you still need to use its prefix, I mean. < 1409867733 177635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: IIRC the "standard" for bots is to treat their own name + colon as their command character; however, this isn't very widely implemented < 1409867737 611963 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( help < 1409867738 476616 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:1:When elaborating an application of constructor 04__infer: < 1409867738 616907 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : No such variable help < 1409867748 478604 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that using the prefix would have helped anyway < 1409867761 938553 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does idrisbot even have commands other than the evaluator < 1409867769 560622 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t 7 < 1409867770 73252 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :09fromInteger 047 : 12Integer < 1409867774 924573 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :The intention is that it will eventually. < 1409867782 152666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure if it's any different without the :t < 1409867783 907112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :( 7 < 1409867784 456173 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :047 : 12Integer < 1409867788 742140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1409867792 482104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm confused < 1409867794 911798 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t :t < 1409867795 64957 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:4: error: no implicit < 1409867795 284994 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : arguments allowed < 1409867795 425492 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : here, expected: dependent type signature < 1409867795 425640 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t :t < 1409867795 425767 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1409867796 427526 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse error on input ‘:’ < 1409867805 436366 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, i was hoping it was actually a function < 1409867807 798676 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1409867811 750368 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he going to only support Haskell? < 1409867816 818600 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he"? < 1409867845 318946 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In idris, you don’t get expressions being polymorphic. < 1409867851 337682 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t fromInteger < 1409867851 862637 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :09Prelude.Classes.fromInteger : 12Num 13a => 12Integer -> 13a < 1409867852 97195 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :09Prelude.Fin.fromInteger : (13x : 12Integer) -> {tacimp prf : 12IsJust (09integerToFin 13x 13n)} -> 12Fin 13n < 1409867857 413467 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shhh, I like personifying bots < 1409867867 200864 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean idris-bot, this isn't haskell, it's idris. < 1409867888 738455 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :idris has more reified type sorta crap. < 1409867889 266476 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n, idris-bot is a she :( < 1409867889 451324 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :polymorphism, more like scowlymorphism < 1409867890 763608 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks functional. And Haskell is the only functional language I know, haha < 1409867902 684173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's a "review" (or an ad dressed up like a review) that suggests SuperCede an IDE with a "MindQ" (index/reference of userful Java information) and the usual sort of stuff, like a form editor for AWT. Still not sure what it has to do with the Internet, but maybe it's not all that important. < 1409867903 514988 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I.e. when you give a hint, it’ll pick that type, if you don’t, it defaults to Integer. < 1409867910 804220 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered learning snobol then < 1409867942 535253 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1409867952 172733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Melvar: right < 1409867992 821460 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: looks outdated < 1409868005 247840 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, amazon recommends i buy abramowitz and stegun < 1409868030 104787 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1409868048 882015 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais finds old tables highly offensive < 1409868100 574503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais523 likes this channel to be about esolangs. < 1409868138 767496 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw c'mon, snobol's practically an esolang anyway < 1409868257 307001 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I could find an interpreter for any old language like that on windows < 1409868273 408496 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remember how horrible Java was in those days in terms of performance. < 1409868302 55889 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java still isn't very good performance wise, is it? < 1409868304 274318 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dreaded anything Java based because it invariably seemed to mean it would be ugly and run like an overfed pig. < 1409868312 562814 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fits a really weird niche of languages < 1409868322 639125 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pigs are pretty fast < 1409868326 461537 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing worse was PDFs. < 1409868399 200549 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: It's not so bad these days; it's semi-competitive, what with the JIT and such. < 1409868460 649916 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even so, I haven't seen it used for about 1.5 years, not counting the occasional post on the code golf SE < 1409868492 529143 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, java is dieing < 1409868545 665064 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the bright side, it opens more opportunities for other programming languages to become popular < 1409868556 416037 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other bright side, no more java :P < 1409868556 556392 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like snobol. < 1409868562 94304 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea < 1409868572 80456 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is pretty competitive speed-wise. < 1409868576 803606 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn Cobol < 1409868577 253592 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :swing is just awful and stuff. < 1409868582 224313 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java plays an important part in getting me a salary. < 1409868585 849094 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the language of my ancestors < 1409868605 810563 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ancestors spoke german, i think. < 1409868607 952922 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :java is still a huge thing, and its ecosystem/the jvm in general too what with scala and clojure and so on < 1409868609 374827 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. The Benchmarks Game pegs it on average at about 2-3 times slower than C. Which is pretty good. < 1409868626 799879 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :swing is... swing at first glance seems very promising and interesting and usable. up to the point where one actually uses it, and starts learning a new human language because one exhausted all available expletives. < 1409868627 549884 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Java is still pretty popular here in Finland at least. < 1409868637 420519 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what kind of german. < 1409868638 342776 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loooot of Java jobs around, especially here in Tampere. < 1409868658 545529 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The JVM most definitely isn't dead < 1409868659 507324 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know there are places in brazil where they all speak german? weird, right? < 1409868676 505256 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a shock to me to learn they spoke French in Canada < 1409868700 189974 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you live anywhere near canada < 1409868708 327253 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: Yes, mostly in Quebec though (although they do sometimes speak French elsewhere in Canada too) < 1409868715 704311 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves at CrazyM4n < 1409868718 747792 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allô toi! :D < 1409868721 455102 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :new brunswick is bilingual. < 1409868728 77880 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opposite side of the states. We get a lot of Spanish here < 1409868766 777615 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Southern AZ is mostly rundown Spanish land < 1409868784 338342 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: Yes, and I did not know that until two days ago actually < 1409868826 871579 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know an acadian guy who lives there, so. < 1409868852 828064 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves at boily < 1409868869 338672 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¡Hola tú! :D < 1409868914 421646 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hablo sólo un poquito de español. parles-tu français? < 1409868991 906255 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mi amigo habla francés, pero no me < 1409869012 879012 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1409869047 862694 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :spanish is an esoteric language, right? < 1409869106 632237 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a billion people speak it, so probably not. maybe you'ret hinking of ladino. < 1409869111 449724 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: tu amigo debría joinear esto channel. (oh fungot... I can't conjugate...) < 1409869112 466982 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i am sure, parliament too, to all citizens of the union and the increasingly wide and increasingly uncontrolled distribution of the costs actually incurred. the rejection of violence to minors have never taken any parliamentary action on matters which bear directly on my corporate interests and have refrained from making a decision on whether the companies are pressing for the death penalty disappears before the end of a < 1409869120 947043 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1409869121 87286 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1409869130 824582 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I could've guessed that. < 1409869132 101915 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1409869132 242174 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1409869136 834525 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kiddinh about spanish btw < 1409869162 833755 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm immune to humor. < 1409869174 274627 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds fun < 1409869474 113615 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. I need help writing some sample programs < 1409869507 41876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: even puns? < 1409869515 328964 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you go along writing the Fibonacci sequence in a stack which pops when you do arithmetic? < 1409869555 271645 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :even puns. < 1409869576 304059 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: you want the fibonacci sequence in the stack? < 1409869578 333932 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gasp. Bicyclidine is immune to rotated shachaf. < 1409869588 794814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's corporate interests mentioned. < 1409869589 34551 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and i don't < 1409869589 898755 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: Try looking at some Forth implementations? < 1409869597 781742 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You don't what? < 1409869598 417824 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: stroustrup is reading cls?!... fnord das oder die fnord fnord. i'm not fnord, i'm about to do that other than your own server 0 0 < 1409869645 255304 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: it doesn't have to stay on the stack, just has to be printed < 1409869653 684349 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1409869654 715639 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is immune to making sense < 1409869655 74374 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it crashes on infinite loops... but i'm pretty sure it exists in mzscheme, whose engine is written in python < 1409869665 28166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A recursive implementation of Fibonacci was my first properly recursive Befunge(-93) program. < 1409869667 293475 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take that back < 1409869673 121684 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :J_Arcane: that sounds like a good idea < 1409869696 736119 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm trying to write it in my funge-like language < 1409869698 675336 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/hSab I even used it as a signature at some point. < 1409869739 428066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course quite silly, since it's the naïve non-memoized fully-recursive thing. < 1409869745 898716 :J_Arcane!~JArcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-54f959-138.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :CrazyM4n: Do you have somewhere outside the stack you can stash a results list? < 1409869760 2203 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1409869779 552400 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had incentive to add a second stack but haven't bothered yet < 1409869790 11815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your stack had the pick and unpick operations, right? < 1409869794 158857 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1409869811 291827 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :With dup, that should make things rather simple. < 1409869817 381265 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea was just to start by making a non destructive addition < 1409869821 413993 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 dup print 1 dup print [dup rot + dup print] loop, or something < 1409869822 181203 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can stick copies freely as far down as necessary. < 1409869824 326133 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From there it's ez pz < 1409869876 89718 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1409869878 246833 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, let me grab my computer so I can have an interpreter < 1409869895 61325 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is still missing. :/ < 1409869983 454654 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna know what's great < 1409869999 733879 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you start your brand new laptop to a black screen with a cursor < 1409870006 324577 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows(tm) < 1409870023 368467 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1409870099 732755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run gforth -e ': fib 0 dup . 1 dup . begin swap over + dup . again ; fib' < 1409870100 429752 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170 1836311903 2971215073 4807526976 7778742049 12586269025 20365011074 32951280099 < 1409870123 39737 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... That is the coolest not I've ever seen < 1409870125 381137 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot < 1409870142 77365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you feel about ¬ < 1409870158 429351 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I feel like it's missing an eye. < 1409870192 684031 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬_\ < 1409870202 144628 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ⊭ < 1409870219 149147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬.⌐ < 1409870249 342607 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :College algebra courses in highschool are so contradictory. I'll try writing the Fibonacci sequence after this hw < 1409870250 231249 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :⌙ < 1409870260 390645 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's contradictory < 1409870276 201139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, I get significantly different rendering for ¬ and ⌐ -- the latter probably comes from a different font. < 1409870343 921781 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409870350 868018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, ⪉ < 1409870375 183888 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net NICK :Guest68322 < 1409870397 637265 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i decalre < to mean "less than or equal to" and ⪇ to mean "less than" < 1409870413 743461 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I went with "swap over" there, but "dup -rot" is the same.) < 1409870419 656096 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: college course in high school. That's contradictory < 1409870444 166167 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be back in like 20 min, hopefully with a working piece of code < 1409870455 953540 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :⫬ < 1409870467 437341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a font for that, sadly. < 1409870487 991599 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows up in the browser for codu logs, but not in the terminal. < 1409870523 998310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really look into getting this terminal thing more Unicodey. I don't even remember if GNU screen still had troubles with non-BMP characters. < 1409870551 521407 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it did. I switched to tmux. < 1409870590 824186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Perhaps you can use ╕ as a replacement. < 1409870672 451223 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :< fizzie> Sadly, I get significantly different rendering for ¬ and ⌐ -- the latter probably comes from a different font. – For me it looks like the same font but the former is hinted and the latter not. < 1409870711 874860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, something like that. < 1409870766 718620 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ¬⌐ < 1409870767 395011 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+00AC NOT SIGN] [U+2310 REVERSED NOT SIGN] < 1409870806 856643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's the same font. < 1409870833 594774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(urxvt has a handy "insert unicode by hex" thing where the info-popup also shows which font it's using.) < 1409870853 391485 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to get Unicode support in the terminal? < 1409870892 795833 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1409870897 94710 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :They’re both in DejaVu Sans Mono for me. < 1409870909 504755 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your terminal doesn't support unicode your terminal's kinda shit. < 1409870924 396482 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, Windows < 1409870932 795055 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ugh. well probably. < 1409870934 398014 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the Unicode chars are blank < 1409870946 742477 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wanted to be able to output a snowman < 1409870956 700501 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1409871008 842655 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perlmonks.org/?node=871945 utf16 again. why. < 1409871092 634191 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-215-107.094.221.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because hysterical raisins. < 1409871096 689627 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who made that decision? That's terrible! < 1409871122 741614 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If only, you know, windows 8 didn't have a locked bootloader < 1409871175 133727 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that originally unicode was going to fit in 16 bits, and people decided they'd just support that instead of utf8, which is variable length and thus a bit trickier. maybe. < 1409871192 505206 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, utf16 is also variable length. nevermind. < 1409871198 518727 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did DOS support? < 1409871215 838384 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, bytes. ascii probably? < 1409871222 295247 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might depend on where you bought it. < 1409871222 508019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: They were using something essentially like UCS-2 back when Unicode was 16 bits. < 1409871240 435139 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yea, ascii < 1409871246 258664 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forgot that even existed < 1409871257 747319 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe latin 1. á is in latin 1, i think. < 1409871264 553422 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS supported whatever code page you loaded, and some of them were (at least mostly) supersets of the ISO-8859-* encodings. < 1409871285 73412 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like CP850. < 1409871437 638426 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap it just hit me how bad at math I am < 1409871451 649929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really tell from the table whether CP850 is a superset of Latin-1; it's certainly in an entirely different order, because in CP437 they stuck latin letters in bytes 80..9f (that's more control characters in Latin-1), and in CP850 they just tried to fit in the rest by dropping some of the block-drawing characters. < 1409871497 357349 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leading to a lot of "there's some random À in the corner of my pretty line-drawing box" issues. < 1409871544 407934 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Á and á still pop up a lot in random places it seems < 1409871750 979710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the earlier discussion: Unicode was originally going to fit in 16 bits, and UCS (ISO/IEC 10646) was originally going to fit in 31, and then they smooshed those together and ended up with the current "about 20.087 bits" codespace. < 1409871787 207407 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Technically, the chronology might have been slightly different, with the Unicode expansion coming before the ISO 10646 merge.) < 1409871874 483274 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why can't we just have one character set" I just thought. I didn't realize that that was the whole point of Unicode, lol < 1409871926 386269 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relevant: http://xkcd.com/927/ < 1409871952 665359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also PC character set; I often use that one too. < 1409871953 50502 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode was smart enough to throw in giant anarchic areas for people to do their own shit. < 1409871971 933118 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why if i wanted i could get a font for voynich characters. < 1409871984 565614 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank god we have half arrows and snowmen in Unicode! < 1409871987 192469 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least they managed to combine the two competing "universal" character sets (Unicode and UCS) with minimal fuss. < 1409872019 606971 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don’t know why Unicode has a SMILING FACE in WHITE and BLACK but just a WHITE FROWNING FACE. < 1409872036 275466 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are emojis Unicode? < 1409872050 328853 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of them are. < 1409872050 661055 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :👍 < 1409872050 832031 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are emoji in Unicode < 1409872061 965052 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :💩 < 1409872071 375479 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposedly japanese cell providers keep going beyond and they're slowly incorporated into legitimacy. < 1409872074 365123 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hearsay) < 1409872080 840352 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including FROWNING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH, SLIGHTLY FROWNING FACE and PERSON FROWNING. < 1409872080 991560 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha that's great < 1409872086 311969 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1409872086 793120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I do know why it has SMILING FACE in WHITE and BLACK but just a WHITE FROWNING FACE. < 1409872096 915350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is to match the PC character set (which doesn't have a frowning face at all) < 1409872097 55808 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly??? < 1409872099 753652 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a standard for emojis < 1409872108 240472 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode. < 1409872127 367726 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode 1F64D < 1409872127 973876 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​🙍 < 1409872134 932616 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the ones that aren't explicitly stated in unicode < 1409872142 435572 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless they all are. < 1409872149 286152 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :🌚 < 1409872226 315019 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a genius idea: an encryption algorithm that changes some data to emojis < 1409872253 835802 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why mix encryption into encoding? You could do them as separate steps. < 1409872277 246597 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, not necessarily encryption < 1409872283 508489 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just encoding < 1409872301 784343 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a full chapter of the topic in the FAQ: http://www.unicode.org/faq/emoji_dingbats.html < 1409872333 969972 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a couple of emoji characters that explicitly specify colors. < 1409872349 281625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Other colors in names, such as BLUE HEART or ORANGE BOOK, are the recommended appearance when the characters are rendered in color. (The black and white images in the Unicode charts use various shading techniques as a stand-in for color.)" < 1409872407 932101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a NOTEBOOK, a NOTEBOOK WITH DECORATIVE COVER, both an OPEN and CLOSED BOOK, and the GREEN, BLUE and ORANGE BOOKs in the Emoji block. < 1409872411 599378 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. They are taking emoji so seriously. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's just funny that it is a serious page about something that is pretty much humorous in nature < 1409872489 354923 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll probably find this amusing then. http://www.w3.org/TR/emotionml/ < 1409872581 277552 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty funny, but might actually have uses < 1409872601 274014 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In artificial intelligence, or chatterbots like cleverbot < 1409872667 109148 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: don't worry about cleverbot. you're the best. < 1409872667 298377 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: so, if neilv is not happy with that < 1409872682 84003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicyclidine: < 1409872689 795321 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: then it's his problem. you're still the fungottiest of them all. < 1409872690 2174 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: my arrow is on the right is the idea < 1409872703 242963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no I missed the /s in those empty tags. < 1409872712 667223 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm doomed to be perpetually amused at a 0.2 intensity. < 1409872773 472936 :Guest68322!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net NICK :Sprocklem < 1409872786 205408 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Changing host < 1409872786 345889 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1409873426 997245 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1409873444 141919 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my alg teacher said she'd take point off for set builder notation < 1409873465 137334 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's like, set builder notation is so great < 1409873474 387190 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :😞 < 1409873564 750597 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, do you have to use interval notation or whatever < 1409873616 81900 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1409873645 381981 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or we write our answers in English, as in "x is in the set of real numbers" < 1409873691 72271 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because {x|x < 1409874293 129691 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as the organization of it all; almost entirely local, with very poorly defined state or national standards. < 1409874374 121139 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the standards are very well defined. That is the problem (see: common core). They don't leave literally anything up to the teacher. It's just a process of get information -> take test -> repeat < 1409874441 1339 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's not what the actual standards state. They state very little except mandating a standardized test as a metric. < 1409874454 448574 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :common core's pretty new. curricula aren't usually standardized across small municipalities unlike in some countries (japan, off the top of my head) < 1409874519 642074 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware what the actual standards state, but what we learn is always perfectly dictated by the test < 1409874521 213417 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "nothing left up to the teacher" is the problem of having almost all of the policy placed in the hands of local officials who don't *know* much of anything, but are also incentivized to exercise power pretty pettily. < 1409874565 217650 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1409874615 696251 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most all of the power in a US school district ends up being in the hands of a couple of local elected officials that honestly get hardly any oversight, because essentially nobody cares about the relevant elections. < 1409874634 746546 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which results in them mandating that the standards get implemented in the laziest way possible. < 1409874661 279442 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. checklist of items to hit in a lecture, followed by test, and don't you dare step outside of it. < 1409874733 626629 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of our officials were educated as football coaches iirc < 1409874736 618933 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the problems only get more apparent in metro areas with high degrees of economic inequality. < 1409874754 334244 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the schools are run at a local level, the *funding* comes at a local level. < 1409874772 852972 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how well the school facilities run is largely a function of how much money the surrounding area has. < 1409874774 811095 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a nicer area, so I can be thankful that the schools are better than in, say, Harlem < 1409874786 358308 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so inner city schools are utterly screwed. < 1409874790 367808 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in St Louis. < 1409874801 175472 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are the schools there? < 1409874805 174035 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same stuff? < 1409874819 70426 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some parts of the area have insanely nice schools. Some have terrible schools that barely are functioning entities. < 1409874830 146029 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fair note though: didn't go to school here) < 1409874987 373650 :Tod-Autojoined!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net NICK :TodPunk < 1409875069 557935 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1409875113 568601 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, what genius thought it was a good idea to fund a school from the property taxes in the city? < 1409875186 896163 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Education doesn't start until college