01:35:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:35:59 -!- glogbot has joined. 01:36:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:36:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 01:36:21 huzzah! 01:37:48 -!- oerjan has set topic: All glogged up again | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | If something is possible, then it's possible that nothing is possible. | 987659473857929758374956789. 01:39:48 I genuinely have no clue why it wasn't on... 01:40:10 out taking over the world maybe? 01:40:16 Probably. 01:42:05 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:47:50 -!- Hjulle has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:48:55 @check \f g x -> ((maybeToList . ((f :: Bool -> [()]) <=< g)) (x::())) == ((maybeToList . f) <=< (maybeToList . g)) x 01:48:56 Couldn't match type ‘[]’ with ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe’ 01:48:56 Expected type: GHC.Types.Bool -> Data.Maybe.Maybe () Actual type: GHC.Types.... 01:49:05 oops 01:49:12 oh the other way 01:49:56 fine tekmo you win this one 01:55:25 @check \f g x -> ((listToMaybe . ((f :: Bool -> [()]) <=< g)) (x::())) == ((listToMaybe . f) <=< (listToMaybe . g)) x 01:55:27 *** Failed! Falsifiable (after 3 tests): 01:55:28 [()]> <() -> [Bool]> () 01:55:43 that's the one i misread it as initially 01:56:37 hm quickcheck could do with some better printing of function counterexamples :P 01:58:39 > (\True -> [()]) 01:58:41 [()]> 02:00:15 > let x = (); g _ = [False,True]; f = flip when [] in ((listToMaybe . ((f :: Bool -> [()]) <=< g)) (x::())) == ((listToMaybe . f) <=< (listToMaybe . g)) x 02:00:17 True 02:00:20 oops 02:00:24 oh 02:01:51 > let x = (); g _ = [True,False]; f = flip when [] in ((listToMaybe . ((f :: Bool -> [()]) <=< g)) (x::())) == ((listToMaybe . f) <=< (listToMaybe . g)) x 02:01:53 False 02:01:57 there you go 02:03:58 @type (<=<) 02:04:00 Monad m => (b -> m c) -> (a -> m b) -> a -> m c 02:04:48 it's like compose, except in a monad (kleisli) category. 02:05:10 it is compose in that category 02:05:40 oerjan: remind me what the thing about the kleisli category being the category of free algebras was? 02:06:38 long since forgotten, although istr all monads essentially coming from varieties of universal algebras 02:07:41 basically you get a monad by combining the adjunctions of the free and underlying functions of such a variety... 02:07:57 um 02:08:11 *combining the adjoint free 02:08:14 oh, variety is a technical word 02:08:21 yes 02:08:45 basically "defined by equations", like monoids, groups or rings 02:09:59 if you can also have implications between equations, you have a quasi-variety 02:10:08 iirc 02:10:38 and fields don't count because you need to be able to have an implication from an _in_equality (x /= 0 => x has inverse) 02:11:00 that sounds more complicated than the thing about free algebras 02:11:30 well one of the things about varieties is that they _have_ free algebras. 02:11:58 i'm not quite sure on the spot if quasi-varieties do too, but e.g. fields don't. 02:13:11 well hm 02:13:31 a -> m b means of course a function from a to the free algebra on b, in this picture 02:13:45 why? 02:14:07 or well, to the underlying set of the free algebra 02:14:07 wait, what's an algebra here 02:14:22 well for [] the algebras are monoids 02:14:29 i'm thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_(category_theory)#Algebras_for_a_monad 02:14:59 oh, maybe that page answers my question 02:15:27 let's hope so 02:16:10 i'm not sure it does, it just claims it's true 02:16:52 i am not about to try and understand that again 02:18:05 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 02:21:17 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:21:20 "Quickcheck found a counterexample: f = (\x. [])(False := [()]) g = \x. [True, False] x = ()" 02:22:19 (This took longer than it should have, because HOL doesn't have proper monads) 02:23:03 that's exactly the same example, isn't it :P 02:23:24 except that f syntax is weird 02:25:00 It uses function update syntax 02:25:36 i still _think_ it's equivalent to the f = flip when [] that i wrote. 02:26:22 It looks like that's the only counterexample, up to permutations 02:26:48 well i think you could have more elements in the [()] list 02:26:53 (flip unless [] would also work, for example) 02:27:39 and more elements in the [True,False] list as well 02:29:54 f needs to return [] for the first element in the list g returns, and non-[] for some other element 03:00:31 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:00:31 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 03:00:31 -!- Lymia has joined. 03:31:16 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:32:24 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:49:15 -!- mauris has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:59:42 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:03:14 The wiki-to-IRC pipe should also be back up now. 05:03:19 (It's not automagicalized.) 05:04:00 :O 05:04:09 am I insane for wanting to do math in agda? 05:04:21 I think I've lost track of what sane is these days 05:04:51 have you been prescribed psychoactive drugs by a health maintenance institution 05:06:59 no 05:07:10 but that's because I've been avoiding the shrinks 05:07:18 also the grows, but that's less urgent 05:11:10 did you know some of us are actually mentally ill 05:12:36 lies 05:18:45 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 05:19:43 elliott_: hey stop scaring away the normals. both of them. 05:20:15 heh 05:20:17 oerjan: we're all normal here. i'm normal. you're normal. 05:20:26 the weirds are *out there* 05:20:30 * quintopia shudders 05:20:31 how do you know i'm normal. 05:20:42 you're here aren't you? 05:20:55 fiendish 05:45:41 coppro: Why not do math in brainfuck? 05:48:32 :D 05:55:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:55:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:09:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:12:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:14:50 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:28:35 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:49:57 -!- ion has quit (Excess Flood). 06:50:00 -!- ion has joined. 07:16:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:20:02 -!- attumm has joined. 08:23:13 -!- attumm has left ("Leaving"). 08:29:29 -!- Mikescher has joined. 08:29:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:32:49 !bfjoust mikescher_so_multivac_v1 http://maximum-sonata.codio.io/myBot.bfjoust 08:33:31 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:33:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:40:52 -!- Mikescher has quit (Quit: Page closed). 08:47:55 Did Gregor just miss EgoBot too, or was that intentional? 08:54:51 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 08:54:54 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 08:55:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:59:08 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 08:59:14 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:59:31 Gregor: thanks for fixing the logging. 09:01:00 Would it be possible for me to have the #corewars glogbackup logs check? (I generally follow up on any questions, comments etc from when I'm offline) 09:17:25 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 09:17:33 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:17:48 -!- olsner has joined. 09:17:48 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 09:18:09 -!- elliott_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:18:09 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 09:18:16 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 09:18:19 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 09:18:38 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 09:18:39 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 09:18:41 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:12 -!- impomatic_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:19 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:22 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:22 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:41 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:46 -!- jj2baile has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:57 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 09:19:57 -!- Guest2171 has quit (*.net *.split). 09:20:08 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 09:20:28 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 09:20:37 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:20:54 -!- DootBot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:20:58 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:00 -!- TieSoul has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:07 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:16 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:16 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:30 -!- qlkzy has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:31 -!- hogeyui__ has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:35 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:52 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 09:21:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:21:59 -!- glogbot has joined. 09:22:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:22:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:22:41 -!- maurer has joined. 09:22:58 -!- b_jonas has joined. 09:27:27 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:30:13 -!- tromp has joined. 09:30:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 09:30:14 -!- nycs has joined. 09:30:14 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:46:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:46:06 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 09:46:14 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 09:47:26 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 09:50:55 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:51:06 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:51:12 -!- coppro has joined. 09:56:30 -!- elliott has joined. 09:59:27 -!- mroman_ has joined. 09:59:45 -!- diginet_ has joined. 10:00:51 -!- myndzl has joined. 10:02:16 -!- skarn_ has joined. 10:04:20 -!- skarn_ has quit (Changing host). 10:04:21 -!- skarn_ has joined. 10:04:25 -!- skarn has quit (Killed (sendak.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))). 10:04:25 -!- skarn_ has changed nick to skarn. 10:09:26 -!- elliott_ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:26 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:26 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:27 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:27 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:27 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 10:10:57 -!- rodgort has joined. 10:12:17 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 10:12:45 -!- boily has joined. 10:12:58 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:19:34 I can breathe! 10:26:25 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:32:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:32:05 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:32:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:32:05 -!- maurer has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:32:05 -!- glogbot has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:32:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:32:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:32:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:32:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:33:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:33:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:33:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:34:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:34:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:35:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:35:04 -!- glogbot has joined. 10:35:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:35:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 10:35:46 glogbot: dextromethorphan hydrobromide, pseudoephedrine hydrochloride, guaifenesin, and acetaminophen. 10:35:57 boily: Are you TRYING to get us on some sort of a watch list? 10:39:08 Aha, you have flu :-( 10:39:26 fizzie: me? nah. nothing surprising at all in here. it's only cough syrup with some paracetamol in it. 10:39:53 impomatic_: yup. 10:40:21 boily: People do drink DXM for fun, you know. 10:43:39 people make purple drank for fun too. that's their problem, not mine. 10:44:08 (like that time my stupid cousin went to a bar one time, and downed a whole bottle of syrup during the night. I wonder how he's still alive.) 10:52:48 I guess it's a moot point, since a quick log-grep reveals (2011-07-02) someone conversing about how they "just cant seem to stop doing -- dissociative hallucinogens -- whether it be Ketamine or dextromethorphan". (In a discussion which I'm sure was very on-topic.) 10:53:11 Oh, it's on-topic, it's just the wrong topic, since it goes into "crowleyan magick" and "charging sigils" immediately after. 10:53:40 I don't think we've seen many "wrong kind of esoteric" visitors as of late. 10:55:05 -!- Gregor` has joined. 10:55:29 -!- Gregor` has changed nick to Guest26100. 10:55:52 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:55:53 -!- monotone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:55:54 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:55:54 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:55:55 -!- weissschloss has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:56:10 -!- monotone has joined. 10:56:17 of the multiple wrong kinds, I don't think I have seen any hispanophones here lately. 10:56:38 -!- int-e has joined. 10:56:49 huh? what's the problem with hispanophones? spanish isn't esoteric a language enough? 10:56:58 yeah, I guess English is more esoteric 10:57:23 Judging from their channel topic, I believe #selinux has a related problem. 10:57:58 Heh, I parsed that as "Swedish Linux" before even thinking of SELinux. 10:58:40 b_jonas: same thing with us here. “spanish oteric”. we've got people from Colombia and Venezuela, mainly. 10:58:53 `? oteric 10:59:01 oteric? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 10:59:08 -!- weissschloss has joined. 11:03:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 11:03:43 oh... 11:04:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 11:04:30 I thought most channels that are language-specific versions of other channels have a language code at the end of the name following either a "-" or a "." separator 11:04:36 but of course the confusion can make sense 11:04:43 -!- tromp_ has joined. 11:05:31 -!- weissschloss has quit (Excess Flood). 11:06:46 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 11:06:49 The english-speaking channel for all emacs distributions, #emacsenen. 11:06:55 -!- `^_^ has joined. 11:07:15 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:07:16 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:07:47 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds). 11:07:48 -!- weissschloss has joined. 11:08:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:09:48 -!- jameseb- has changed nick to jameseb. 11:11:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ENENENENEN CHICKEN). 11:18:14 OOH! 11:19:18 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 11:20:06 -!- DootBot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:20:36 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:22:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:22:22 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:22:22 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:23:08 -!- heroux has joined. 11:23:10 -!- jameseb has joined. 11:24:37 -!- qlkzy has joined. 11:27:05 -!- hogeyui___ has joined. 11:27:26 -!- hogeyui__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:29:41 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 11:29:42 -!- quintopia has joined. 11:29:58 -!- heroux_ has joined. 11:30:08 oh weird 11:30:20 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:30:21 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:30:21 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:30:21 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:30:45 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 11:33:04 what's going on with this server 11:36:04 -!- lambdabot has joined. 11:38:09 quintopia: There appears to be a ddos attack going on again. 11:38:33 Melvar: same story, different attackers 11:43:48 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:44:15 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:44:42 -!- maurer_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:46:16 -!- maurer has joined. 11:48:43 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 11:49:29 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:51:29 -!- DootBot has joined. 11:51:41 Hey 11:53:15 hi hello whats up 11:56:20 dooot 12:01:35 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 12:02:49 doot :P 12:02:50 TieSoul: PogChamp seems everybody's roll say. pew three? essentially be bot get? ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ ##bottesting OR? 12:04:00 fungot seems to make slightly more sense 12:04:00 quintopia: indeed you do, replace those square brackets make plt code hard to read 12:06:08 TieSoul: whatcha working on now 12:06:42 Not really anything at the moment 12:06:56 doot 12:06:56 TieSoul: lotid, anyways cole over seen? I've because of the 3 shit that reason have! 12:12:22 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:14:36 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:15:32 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 12:22:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:26:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:26:56 -!- clog has joined. 12:27:56 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:29:50 -!- heroux has joined. 12:39:02 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:39:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:39:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:47:44 -!- DootBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:20 -!- DootBot has joined. 12:52:35 -!- augur has joined. 13:07:04 -!- Hjulle has joined. 13:09:36 -!- nys has joined. 13:24:09 doot 13:24:10 * DootBot it'd TPP talked is could! KILL curve why on be. anyway. were is certain. 13:24:29 ^bots 13:24:35 !bots 13:34:46 ^prefixes 13:34:46 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 13:34:53 !prefixes 13:34:56 `prefixes 13:34:57 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 13:36:10 some time in the future we won't be able to write anything without triggering a bot 13:38:54 Given that several of the listed ones seem to be missing, I am not worried. 13:38:54 -!- DootBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:43:10 EgoBot is (hopefully) only temporarily gone; there's the whole bfjoust community to take care of, after all. 13:43:31 And metasepia's intermittently here. 13:44:24 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 13:49:21 Far as I can tell, jconn has been disappeared since May. I was going to say I don’t know I’ve seen blsqbot, but it’s been around. 13:56:56 Melvar: I don't run jconn continuously, only start it occasionally from my home computer. The alternative is j-bot which fftw runs, and was in on #jsoftware about five hours ago, it just isn't set up to join this channel. 13:57:05 Wait, jconn? 13:57:09 That's not my instance. 13:57:25 The instance I run at home occasionally is evalj, with the prefix ] 13:57:30 the prefix for j-bot is [ 13:57:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:57:36 and for jconn it's ) , yes 13:57:41 but all of them listen to their name too 13:58:17 I don't recall whose jconn is 13:58:25 maybe it's jconn that's fftw's? 13:59:46 -!- DootBot has joined. 14:16:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:33:48 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:45:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:16:29 http://blog.openworm.org/post/96090226275/any-advanced-math-wizards-out-there 15:39:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:39:47 -!- mihow has joined. 15:40:32 -!- conehead has joined. 15:47:46 -!- V4N13 has joined. 15:53:14 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 15:59:38 b_jonas: Does "fftw" have anything to do with FFTW? 16:02:39 fizzie: yes, I believe that's where he's got his nick 16:03:32 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:25:29 -!- V4N13 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:26:02 -!- V4N13 has joined. 16:28:32 -!- V4N13 has left. 16:50:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:59:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:00:53 -!- DootBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:05:36 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 17:05:55 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:21:23 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 17:21:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:21:29 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:21:36 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 17:21:42 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:22:19 Is there a function (a -> Bool) -> Traversal' a a such that the traversal it makes traverses only when its argument gives back true? 17:23:02 I have a feeling a function of that type might be a bit.. essential in a dynamically typed setting 17:24:13 no, because you can pass back in an a that would fail the predicate, breaking the laws 17:25:07 Didn't there used to be a function that could break the laws? 17:25:21 I think it exists, yes. 17:29:23 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 17:29:29 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:32:30 :t uncurry id 17:32:31 (b -> c, b) -> c 17:42:33 iceweasel (31.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium 17:42:34 * Since version 30.0, NTLMv1 authentication has been disabled because it's known as insecure. Companies and organizations still deploying the older protocol should upgrade to NTMLv2, unfortunately, it's not supported by iceweasel. 17:50:37 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi. 17:52:52 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 17:52:55 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul. 17:57:37 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 17:57:42 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to Tiesoul. 18:00:20 -!- Froox has joined. 18:00:51 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:02:25 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 18:02:25 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 18:02:32 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 18:18:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:21:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:23:42 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:24:23 -!- DootBot has joined. 18:29:28 -!- Guest26100 has changed nick to Gregor. 18:35:16 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:54:02 -!- aretecode has joined. 19:00:06 -!- jj2baile has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:10:47 http://sprunge.us/jeLQ -- this (picked up from ##c) was quite amusing. (Undefined, of course.) 19:12:26 (of course) 19:13:15 -!- pillow_ has joined. 19:13:35 -!- `^_^ has changed nick to `^_^v. 19:18:21 http://sprunge.us/aHQj is kind of analogous except relying on non-finite math rather than undefined stuff. 19:20:10 <`^_^v> what's the UB in the first one? 19:20:32 If you wonder about scanf(...) == 1, well, you know how GCC can be, all "warning: ignoring return value of 'scanf', declared with attribute warn_unused_result", so I just wrote an ion. (That's an assertion without the assert.) 19:21:13 I'm guessing it's generating a trap representation -- an object representation that does not represent a value of the type. 19:21:37 Well, not the generating, the act of reading it. 19:21:42 representation of _Bool, I assume.. e.g. it might be a byte and might require that the byte be either 1 or 0 19:21:54 Yes, that's very conventional. 19:22:24 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:22:28 and if (v.c) could perhaps generate something like if (v.c == true), which would then fail 19:22:30 "Certain object representations need not represent a value of the object type. If the stored value of an object has such a representation and is read by an lvalue expression that does not have character type, the behavior is undefined." (C11 6.2.6.1p5) 19:23:50 -!- pillow_ has left ("Leaving"). 19:26:05 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:26:24 That's quite close. Actually, with optimizations off, it does "xorl $1, %eax; testb %al, %al; je skip_over_the_true_branch" to perform the !v.c test. 19:27:03 With optimizations on, it might generate something else, but it also assumes (quite rightly) a boolean and only tests once. 19:27:06 -!- lollo64it has joined. 19:27:26 (In fact, my test case of if (x) f(); if (!x) f(); got turned into f(); alone.) 19:28:08 the xor thing is odd though, if it does the test anyway, why not just do jne instead? 19:28:32 Well, I mean, it's a straight-forward translation. 19:28:44 ah, it was optimization off 19:28:59 Yes. The "!" is the "xorl $1, %eax" part, and then comes the if (...) part. 19:33:03 Curiously enough, this clang (with optimizations off) ands the _Bool value by 1 before doing any testing. With them on, it assumes, but also just tests once for nonzeroness. So both "work". 19:35:35 In LLVM there is the i1 type for booleans 19:40:15 But I think it would also be better the way Pascal does it; the type specifies the range of possible values. 19:45:02 So you can write it is 0 to 255, or whatever 19:54:04 -!- DootBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:54:30 -!- DootBot has joined. 19:55:26 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(5R#@6.@ 19:55:27 Tiesoul: 6 19:55:37 is that supposed to happen? 19:56:28 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(5K#@6. @ 19:56:32 Tiesoul: (Execution timed out.) 19:56:36 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(5K#@6. @ 19:56:40 Tiesoul: (Execution timed out.) 19:56:42 huh 20:01:46 -!- DootBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:02:07 -!- DootBot has joined. 20:02:15 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(5R#@6.@ 20:02:15 Tiesoul: No output. 20:02:39 ??? 20:02:45 this should output 6 I think 20:03:03 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(5K#@6.@ 20:03:07 Tiesoul: (Execution timed out.) 20:03:18 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(4K#@6.@ 20:03:18 Tiesoul: No output. 20:03:24 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(1K#@6.@ 20:03:24 Tiesoul: No output. 20:03:27 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(2K#@6.@ 20:03:28 Tiesoul: 6 20:03:43 "CEXE"4(2R#@6.@ 20:03:53 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(2R#@6.@ 20:03:54 Tiesoul: No output. 20:04:37 !befunge98 "CEXE"4('#1X@5.@ 20:04:37 Tiesoul: 5 20:04:44 !befunge98 "CEXE"4('#2X@5.@ 20:04:44 Tiesoul: 1 20:06:02 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(cA#@5.@ 20:06:02 Tiesoul: 5 20:06:21 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(d0A#@5.@ 20:06:21 Tiesoul: 5 20:06:25 ... 20:06:30 this shouldn't happen I think 20:06:47 oh wait 20:06:49 nevermind 20:06:57 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(e01A#@5.@ 20:06:57 Tiesoul: 5 20:07:00 wat 20:07:20 !befunge98 "CEXE"4(d01A#@5.@ 20:07:20 Tiesoul: No output. 20:07:21 there 20:07:23 :P 20:09:17 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 20:14:21 *yawn* 20:15:16 Today I saw Guardians of the Galaxy, for the third time 20:15:37 Which I think makes it the movie I have seen the most number of times in a cimema 20:23:38 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:26:40 -!- diginet_ has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 20:27:10 -!- diginet has joined. 20:27:57 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe_ has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 20:28:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Changing host). 20:28:07 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 20:45:14 -!- J_Arcane has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.4-dev). 20:46:59 -!- J_Arcane has joined. 20:56:13 hi Taneb 20:56:14 why 20:56:23 i haven't seen it 20:56:35 It's a fun, light-hearted sci-fi movie 20:56:51 I recommend it 20:58:37 ok 20:58:50 what about snowpiercer 21:00:33 Haven't seen it 21:02:03 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:10:22 -!- not^v has joined. 21:12:21 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 21:14:24 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 21:17:26 DootBot: !help 21:17:26 Taneb: !guess can you change shit Kappa yourself! 21:17:35 :( 21:17:57 What does that mean? 21:20:05 I don't know 21:32:16 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:35:55 Cillian Murphy! 21:43:53 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 21:46:20 -!- jameseb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:47:12 -!- nycs has joined. 21:48:24 -!- diginet has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:48:29 -!- jameseb has joined. 21:49:10 -!- diginet has joined. 21:49:45 -!- jarcane has joined. 21:51:50 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe_ has joined. 21:51:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:52:01 -!- atriq has joined. 21:52:48 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:52:53 -!- J_Arcane has quit (*.net *.split). 21:52:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (*.net *.split). 21:52:54 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 21:52:56 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 21:52:56 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 21:53:14 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe_ has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 21:53:46 -!- mauris has joined. 21:53:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Changing host). 21:53:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:56:13 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 21:58:14 -!- jj2baile has joined. 22:01:42 -!- mauris has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:01:50 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:01:52 HALP HOW TO EXORCISE LAPTOP 22:05:48 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 22:11:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 22:11:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:11:27 -!- `^_^v has joined. 22:12:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:12:52 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 305 seconds). 22:13:54 no seriously there is a demon in this computer 22:16:18 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:17:54 quintopia: I suggest dunking it in holy water. 22:18:51 Sgeo_: i don't have enough money to buy a replacement :/ 22:24:32 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:25:41 -!- skarn has joined. 22:26:03 -!- skarn has changed nick to Guest21595. 22:26:11 evening 22:26:41 so I'm reading the classic textbook Aho, Ullman, "The Theory of Parsing, Translation, and Compiling", (1972), 22:27:02 and it seems like a really good book that tells what I wanted to learn about context-free languages in a style I like 22:27:28 but there's a sentence in it that seems as if it's written to address the community of this channel specifically 22:28:54 after stating that there are context-free languages that have no unambiguous context-free grammars, and that these are called inherently ambiguous, it states “no inherently ambiguous programming languages have been devised yet” 22:32:55 -!- TieSoul-mobile has joined. 22:32:58 Hi 22:33:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:33:43 Hey œrjan 22:34:57 `hello TieSoul 22:34:58 Hello 22:35:15 hijsel (your nick is a pun on your real name, right?) 22:35:21 -!- evalj has joined. 22:36:08 what? 22:36:16 that was to TieSoul-mobile 22:37:30 i saw his windows username in something he pasted 22:41:09 am i being creepy 22:42:16 -!- Guest21595 has quit (Changing host). 22:42:16 -!- Guest21595 has joined. 22:42:34 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40358&oldid=40351 * B jonas * (+487) /* Mathematics */ inherently ambiguous context-free language 22:42:41 -!- Guest21595 has changed nick to skarn. 22:42:52 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 22:46:02 oerjan: Not at all, Mr. Johansen. 22:47:35 okeikki 22:48:01 although i'm not sure it counts when we put it openly in the real name field 22:48:15 *ircname 22:48:37 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:49:40 does such a language already exist? 22:50:32 i recall oklopol had a language that guessed the meaning from the types 22:50:39 or something like that 22:54:01 coppro: asking "is anyone around?" when you have a specific question isn't very nice 22:58:32 :t \p -> prism' id (mfilter p) 22:58:34 (Choice p, Applicative f) => (a -> Bool) -> p a (f (Maybe a)) -> p (Maybe a) (f (Maybe a)) 22:59:44 > [1,2,3,4] & traverse.prism' id (mfilter odd) %~ (+2) 22:59:45 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 22:59:45 a ~ Data.Maybe.Maybe a 22:59:45 Expected type: a -> Data.Maybe.Maybe a 22:59:45 Actual type: a -> a 22:59:49 eep 23:00:09 :t mfilter 23:00:11 MonadPlus m => (a -> Bool) -> m a -> m a 23:00:22 oh right hm 23:00:47 > [1,2,3,4] & traverse.prism' id (mfilter odd.return) %~ (+2) 23:00:49 [3,2,5,4] 23:01:04 Sgeo_: ^ *MWAHAHAHAHA* 23:01:35 > [1,2,3,4] & traverse . filtered odd %~ (+2) 23:01:37 [3,2,5,4] 23:01:53 prism?? 23:01:53 oh i didn't find that where i looked 23:02:03 why not? 23:02:19 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 23:02:22 it can only traverse one item after all >:) 23:02:29 > [1,2,3,4] & traverse . filtered odd %~ (+1) 23:02:31 [2,2,4,4] 23:02:50 i suppose making it not a prism discourages using it in even more evil ways 23:03:58 it's even more law-violating as a prism 23:04:14 since there's no guarantee that the predicate applies to the thing you're constructing 23:04:45 wot is this? 23:04:50 * Sgeo_ ponders a Detect profunctor, that just contains a hashmap of symbols to bools, starting them all at true, and as various capabilities are used, setting them false as needed 23:04:56 right, but it breaks for the same reason - not treating the selected subset as a closed type 23:05:02 i think. 23:05:17 closed? 23:05:37 i guess "closed under whatever arbitrary operation/value you provide" 23:05:39 e.g. using dimap sets 'id to #f, using strong/etc. sets 'iso to #f 23:06:25 So effectively determining the 'type' of optic even though they're all functions in a dynamically typed language 23:06:47 that sounds horrible 23:07:27 ? 23:07:59 Hmm, actually, dimap id id would fail to be id, hmm 23:08:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:09:18 But still, it reveals what will and will not throw an exception 23:09:42 Even if dimap blah id id should be morally equivalent to blah, it isn't because blah might not be a profunctor 23:09:53 (Ok, so I'm changing order of arguments a bit) 23:16:51 oh hm filtered is in Control.Lens.Fold because that's the only use that's definitely safe 23:17:03 but it's defined such that it allows cheating 23:17:20 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 23:32:20 b_jonas: oh inherently ambiguous is a technical term 23:32:37 oerjan: yes, I tried to explain what it means 23:32:42 in that case i _really_ doubt any have been made 23:32:52 why doubt? 23:33:11 ok maybe by accident 23:33:20 I mean, there's so many esolangs, and this fact isn't something secret, it's in many other books about formal languages too, even if not formulated as a call for challenge 23:33:30 well it's a more advanced concept than most esolangs use, frankly 23:34:45 also i haven't read the wiki article yet, i need to catch up on the wiki later 23:34:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:36:52 oerjan: you don't have to read what I wrote on the wiki, I just said the same thing on this channel 70 minutes ago 23:36:59 I think even a very simple construction might work, 23:37:52 such as a brainfuck variant where if the program doesn't have balanced brackets then it's considered a brainfuck program with an alternate symbol set where <> are the loop delimiters and [] are the head move operators 23:38:56 but it would be nicer if the language wasn't a brainfuck variant of course 23:41:08 hm i take it the language of unbalanced brackets isn't context-free then? 23:43:31 the language of unbalanced brackets is context-free 23:43:32 hm actually i doubt that 23:43:50 because i recall defining a monoid of bracket matching state 23:44:09 in that case i doubt your language actually is inherently ambiguous 23:44:19 the book proves that the complement of any language recognized by a deterministic push-down automaton can also be recognized by a deterministic push-down automaton, which proves it's context-free 23:44:39 hm right 23:44:47 that's obvious 23:44:48 but the point here is that if the brackets are balanced, then the program is still valid, with the original brainfuck semantics 23:45:10 yes, but that doesn't mean it's intrinsically ambiguous 23:45:34 so the set of valid programs is the language of strings with balanced brackets unioned with the language of strings with balanced angle brackets, 23:45:38 you might be able to separate the two legal sublanguages into disjoint context-free languages 23:46:12 well, I'm not completely sure it's intrinsically ambiguous yet, so you might need a somewhat different construction, yes 23:46:29 but I think it is 23:47:05 hm well the latter is an intersection language, so not necessarily context-free 23:48:24 although that doesn't prove you cannot split in a different way 23:48:36 well you go ahead finding a proof :P 23:49:15 that, but more importantly define a similar language that isn't a brainfuck derivative, because we don't need another brainfuck derivative 23:49:38 good, good 23:50:55 Is there something like at or ix (not sure which) that allows for a default if the key isn't found? I assume that's only safe if the user promises to treat "no value present" as "this value is the default" consistently 23:51:22 Sgeo_: for what data structure? 23:51:32 Map 23:51:39 Is the thing I most have in mind 23:52:07 guessing yes, let me look it up 23:52:53 Sgeo_: you use those together with non 23:53:22 :t non 23:53:24 (Profunctor p, Functor f, Eq a) => a -> p a (f a) -> p (Maybe a) (f (Maybe a)) 23:53:49 Sgeo_: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.6.3/html/libraries/containers-0.5.0.0/Data-Map-Lazy.html#v:findWithDefault 23:54:05 b_jonas: he's talking about lens 23:54:26 hmm 23:54:30 oh, so that's why those names "ix" and "at" are so strange 23:54:46 But this always forcibly deletes the entry if you try to set to the value given to the non 23:54:48 ("at" would make sense in C++) 23:55:02 Sgeo_: yes that's considered a feature? 23:55:12 ok 23:56:00 I love simple :: Iso' a a. 23:56:34 that _is_ pretty simple 23:56:54 Why not Equality'? 23:57:18 Oh, it is Equality'. 23:57:45 Is Equality' what I called 'id, or something else? 23:57:51 I don't know.