←2014-07-14 2014-07-15 2014-07-16→ ↑2014 ↑all
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00:58:05 <Sgeo> Is it at all likely that any given Ruby DSL will behave differently from others in a variety of subtle ways even if they're all used similarly?
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01:03:17 <Sgeo> "i would advise that you don't try to write ruby like you would haskell"
01:03:20 <Sgeo> well, I'm sad now
01:08:03 <Sgeo> Now they're arguing about whether Ruby has functions
01:08:43 <Bike> who's "they"? the gods of pegāna?
01:08:52 <Sgeo> #ruby
01:09:34 <shachaf> the real ruby channel is #ruby-lang anyway
01:09:50 <shachaf> but why are you quoting #ruby in here? what did we do to you?
01:11:00 <Sgeo> Both #ruby and #ruby-lang are apparently popular. The former more so, but the latter has a lot of people too
01:11:32 <Sgeo> Just another example of Ruby philosophy?
01:11:58 <Bike> have you considered reading dennett? hegel? malebranche
01:12:51 <Sgeo> I do want to read Dennett at some poiint
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02:41:29 <Sgeo> http://codepad.org/YDyb2w13
02:41:43 <Sgeo> This code working as I expected seems to be calming me down, oddly enough
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03:03:40 <SchrodingersCat> can i get advice on the "language" i made to store lcd patters for my arduino uno's lcd4884 (84x48) shield on a sdcard attached to my arduino micro (te two arduinos are connected by serial)?
03:04:00 <SchrodingersCat> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/lcd4884_hello_world.txt
03:04:05 <SchrodingersCat> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/lcd4884_command_list.txt
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03:22:59 <SchrodingersCat> night all
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03:23:30 <zzo38> Have anyone else of you to try my quiz yet?
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04:54:41 <myname> quiz?
04:55:46 * Sgeo blinks at Ruby having a StopIteration
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05:27:20 <zzo38> myname: Yes, did you see it yet?
05:27:45 <myname> obviously not
05:27:54 <zzo38> gopher://zzo38computer.org/1quiz.run*quiz01.
05:28:02 <zzo38> Note that the final period is also a part of the selector string.
05:28:31 <zzo38> Also note that the 1 after the third slash is not a part of the selector string.
05:28:35 <myname> first problem is, how to open a gopher link
05:29:04 <myname> firefox dropped gopher support a while ago
05:30:01 <zzo38> You can try Visgopher if you are using Windows; you could also just try writing your own gopher client, or following it manually, neither of which is particularly difficult.
05:30:29 <zzo38> Or install an extension in Firefox for gopher (which is better than the one they dropped a while ago anyways)
05:36:38 <zzo38> (I have not tested Visgopher on Wine, so I don't know if it works or not.)
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06:22:37 * Sgeo stumbles upon an obsolete Rack tutorial :(
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06:30:38 <Sgeo> Rack::Cascade makes me think of Snapesque <> except there's no way to return a real 404
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12:33:22 <SchrodingersCat> This is the "language" I made for communicting lcd information between arduinos. Whoever can make sense of this gets extra points. (Hint: The second file is the code for "Hello, World!")
12:33:26 <SchrodingersCat> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/lcd4884_command_list_new.txt https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/lcd4884_hello_world_new.txt
12:35:24 <SchrodingersCat> please advise
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13:13:37 <TieSoul_> hey guys I made a language and I want some feedback on it :P
13:13:39 <TieSoul_> https://github.com/TieSoul/Befunk
13:14:00 <TieSoul_> spoilers: It's very similar to Befunge
13:17:22 <ais523_> TieSoul_: it's almost an encoding of Befunge-98 into images?
13:17:30 <ais523_> with a few changes to allow for the fact that it's now non-textual?
13:17:34 <TieSoul_> almost
13:17:36 <TieSoul_> yeah
13:17:38 <TieSoul_> basically
13:18:03 <ais523_> in that case, my opinion is that it's basically an input encoding
13:18:11 <ais523_> have you tried converting Mycology to an image and running that on it?
13:18:25 <ais523_> that's the usual test for Funge-alikes
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13:18:33 <TieSoul_> It's almost impossible to convert Befunge to Befunk
13:18:47 <oerjan> i was just about to say it's probably best that fungot isn't here to hear about this travesty
13:18:47 <fungot> oerjan: i just added a few items already was quite obvious that he doesn't have the best of both worlds.
13:19:09 <oerjan> (as in, fungot entered just as i'd finished the line)
13:19:09 <fungot> oerjan: being reminds me of the running man. reinstalling all your stuff is annoying
13:20:19 <olsner> fungot: can you convert into befunk?
13:20:19 <fungot> olsner: ( he was actually worried it would " not last". 1)
13:20:26 <fizzie> Sadly, you can't make a working fungot without fingerprints.
13:20:26 <fungot> fizzie: ( define y ' () evaluates to a non-empty list which it is meaningful to modify the fingerprint and add a clause for abstractions, applications, etc
13:21:03 <olsner> hmm, how common is it for fungot to mention a word from its trigger?
13:21:04 <fungot> olsner: ye gads...
13:21:58 <ais523_> olsner: it only does it at random
13:22:04 <ais523_> there's no specific trigger lookup
13:22:10 <fizzie> I'm sure you could computed the expected value for it, however.
13:22:24 <olsner> I know, I was more wondering how often it happens accidentally
13:22:47 <fizzie> Having "a" in both is probably reasonably common.
13:22:48 <ais523_> shouldn't be too hard to grep thel ogs for it
13:22:50 <ais523_> *the logs
13:23:06 <ais523_> hmm, is "the" less common on IRC than in English generally? it wouldn't surprise me if it were
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13:24:01 <b_jonas> ais523_: do you count only English irc, or also other languages?
13:24:03 <fizzie> I think I did some counting once.
13:24:11 <fizzie> Anyhoo, modulo some difficulties (figuring out which part is code and which part is data read via g/p), I don't see why it would be impossible to convert (a subset of) Funge-98 programs to Befunk.
13:24:21 <b_jonas> do you count all-textspeak-and-emoticons irc?
13:24:26 <ais523_> b_jonas: I guess I count only Freenode, which is not 100% English, but is very-high-percentage English
13:24:51 <b_jonas> I don't know
13:24:56 <ais523_> fizzie: characters that are used in both stringmode and normal mode?
13:25:05 <ais523_> actually, I wonder if Mycology does that at all
13:25:09 <ais523_> I think it does at least with spaces
13:25:40 <fizzie> ais523_: Those would be problematic, as would be characters that are both executed and read via g.
13:26:08 <ais523_> this sort of ambiguity was intentional in catseye's specs, I think
13:26:14 <ais523_> because he wanted to make Befunge as hard to compile as possible
13:26:19 <fizzie> (Except when they've read with g only to be written with p and executed again, in which case the exact value does not matter.)
13:26:26 <ais523_> or she, I guess
13:26:55 <oerjan> ais523_: i'm pretty sure cpressey is he hth
13:26:58 <ais523_> this read/execute issue comes up in a lot of languages
13:27:10 <ais523_> it's the main difference between Underload and Underlambda, for instance
13:27:19 <ais523_> not that Underlambda is likely to ever be fully specified at this rate
13:27:32 <fizzie> I've misplaced my script of dumping out fungot's language models in a human-readable format. :/
13:27:32 <fungot> fizzie: one could ( more informally) write x(m 1..n) 0 0
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13:27:55 <ais523_> > x(m 1..n) 0 0
13:27:56 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: parse error on input ‘..’
13:29:44 <fizzie> That can't be right, it's claiming the unigram frequency of "the" is 2/8922315.
13:30:12 <oerjan> fizzie: does it work the "special" words?
13:30:17 <oerjan> *for the
13:32:55 <fizzie> It has sorted the labels alphabetically, but is taking the frequencies from the unsorted list.
13:32:56 <ais523_> now I'm mentally working on the challenge of "create a BF derivative that's as similar to BF as possible while being almost impossible to compile BF programs to"
13:33:25 <ais523_> ideally, one that is obviously curly-L-complete, and not in the HQ9+ sense
13:33:55 <ais523_> (I love the fact that esolang technology has developed so much that I can write sentences like that and have a decent chance of people knowing what I mean)
13:33:56 <TieSoul_> I just did that with Befunge :P
13:34:01 <ais523_> TieSoul_: yes
13:34:10 <TieSoul_> though not really intentionally
13:34:14 <ais523_> that's why I started thinking about doing that with BF, which is a harder core to work from
13:34:26 <ais523_> if we accomplish that, next stop is to do it with Thue :-)
13:37:08 <fizzie> Befunk's impossibility is also just for the generic case. I'd wager there are several Befunge programs that'd translate over pretty easily.
13:37:19 <fizzie> Also 3.09% of the tokens in fungot's "irc" model are the word "the".
13:37:19 <fungot> fizzie: really, it's just totally useless. i'd better go home, else i'll miss the one in scheme48 :) like us?
13:38:20 <fizzie> The corresponding figure for Google's book corpus is between 4.6% to 6.1%, depending on the publication year.
13:38:37 <TieSoul_> Yeah, most simple Befunge programs (i. e. programs that don't involve stringmode) can be converted quite simply
13:39:01 <TieSoul_> programs with stringmode can also be converted with slightly more work
13:39:20 <fizzie> Eyeball-extrapolating the trends, I'd estimate the IRC-speak of today is book-writing of 2060 or so, judging from the frequency of "the" alone.
13:39:27 <fizzie> (It's a downward trend.)
13:39:29 <TieSoul_> and programs with instructions both in and not in stringmode can't be converted
13:44:04 <FireFly> ais523_: what does "curly-L-complete" refer to?
13:45:10 <oerjan> FireFly: GET WITH THE TECHNOLOGY MAN
13:45:10 <ais523_> FireFly: an article on the wiki which I can't link to because I can't type the curly L and can't be bothered to look it up
13:45:20 <oerjan> and also the wiki is down.
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13:45:35 <ais523_> basically it means that the language can be used to implement at least one interpreter for a TC language
13:45:43 <ais523_> there is some debate about whether or not this means that the language is actually TC
13:45:51 <ais523_> although all TC languages are also curly-L-complete
13:45:51 <FireFly> Ah
13:48:13 <fizzie> oerjan: It's at times like these I'm happy I'm just administering the thing and not actually hosting it.
13:48:56 <oerjan> FireFly: it's basically about whether you should consider code distinct from input when defining TC-ness. (i'm on the "no" side.)
13:49:53 <oerjan> mainly because there are so many TC formalisms where separating code and input makes no real sense.
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13:51:35 <Melvar> `unidecode ℒ
13:51:49 <oerjan> HackEgo is also down.
13:51:49 <Melvar> Oh, right, stuff’s down.
13:52:09 <Melvar> Is that the intended curly L though?
13:52:31 <fizzie> Even important stuff, like people's MINECRAFT SERVERS, are down. (I checked Twitter.)
13:52:55 <oerjan> Melvar: yes. googling that with esolang gives the right hit.
13:53:16 <TieSoul_> why is stuff down
13:53:21 <TieSoul_> :P
13:53:28 <oerjan> too bad google stopped giving cached pages.
13:53:29 <TieSoul_> and OHNO MINECRAFT SURVURS
13:53:48 <fizzie> oerjan: There is a cached copy of it.
13:53:53 <fizzie> oerjan: In Google.
13:54:05 <oerjan> well yes, but can you get to it?
13:54:37 <fizzie> Yes, with a browser that doesn't load images or other useless stuff.
13:54:49 <fizzie> Scripts too, I guess.
13:55:03 <fizzie> Given that if it were just images, it probably wouldn't block before rendering something.
13:55:54 <fizzie> (Or possibly it's stylesheets, I don't know what browsers do about those.)
13:56:03 <fizzie> In any case, it loads nicely with w3m.
13:56:34 <oerjan> i only get the translate link on the hit page, which doesn't load.
13:57:19 <oerjan> oh wait that tiny down arrow.
13:57:40 <fizzie> Yes, that's where they've put the cached-page link nowadays.
13:57:51 <oerjan> well i got it now.
13:58:35 <fizzie> "ℒ is not infrequently written as "fancy L", in situations where 'ℒ' is difficult to type." apparently ais523_ used a nonstandard alternative term.
14:06:03 <Melvar> Well, it’s not necessarily curly in every font.
14:06:51 <Melvar> Also, a curly L could also be ȴ (LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH CURL).
14:08:45 <ais523_> fizzie: I think "curly L" is the normal name for the computability class, if not the letter
14:13:03 <Melvar> ℒ is SCRIPT CAPITAL L btw.
14:31:02 <TieSoul_> I made a Befunk solution to Euler-1 hidden in an image file which displays the number 233168 :P
14:31:31 <TieSoul_> which is the solution
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15:31:20 <FreeFull> £
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16:48:22 <coppro> I have an idea. a pair of HTTP status codes for Request Interrupted and Resume Request
16:48:43 <coppro> intended to be used for a transparent auth gateway like on free wifi networks
16:49:03 <coppro> so that they original request isn't interrupted and the browser can still submit whatever it was submitting
16:49:10 <Bike> stateful?
16:50:30 <ais523_> only at the client end
16:50:50 <ais523_> coppro: those wifi auth gateways massively confuse my browser, to the extent that I've taken to using w3m for them
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16:53:23 <coppro> Bike: if they're stateful, the only state is that the server will give a unique key so that the client can remember which request it's resuming
16:54:06 <zzo38> I don't like those WiFi auth gateways; for one thing they require a web browser, and even if you have one, causes interruption. Better is to use standard WiFi passwords; if agreement to terms of service is required it can be on a separate paper.
16:54:45 <ais523_> zzo38: nowadays they require huge levels of auth
16:54:55 <ais523_> out of several I've used recently, the /least/ they required was an email address
16:55:20 <coppro> zzo38: That does not cover all use cases
16:55:24 <ais523_> one of them wanted to know email address, physical address, name, mobile telephone number (all required), plus an agreement to let them send me adverts
16:55:35 <ais523_> I couldn't agree to that even if I wanted to, due to not having a mobile phone
16:55:54 <coppro> It will work fine for, say, a hotel's wifi, but it doesn't work for the case where you are operating a public access point and wish to charge for access
16:55:59 <coppro> you may not have physical interaction with clients
16:56:43 <ais523_> coppro: there's already a status code for "payment required", but nobody uses it
16:57:00 <ais523_> it was intended for paywalls, presumably to stop the wall itself being cached rather than the page behind it
16:58:07 <coppro> nobody uses it because it's only reserved
16:59:11 <zzo38> Even if they do require additional auth, allowing it to work over telnet may help too, in addition to HTTP. However, even that isn't quite best way; it is also terrible.
16:59:52 <coppro> hmm
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17:00:45 <zzo38> Some such access points seem to allow DNS to work without authorizing at first.
17:00:50 <coppro> do current browsers treat all unknown 300-class status codes as redirects? if so, that would make things much easier
17:00:55 <coppro> zzo38: all do.
17:01:11 <zzo38> You can simply store all the data you want to access in the DNS records.
17:01:31 <coppro> they may, however, intercept the DNS
17:01:50 <coppro> some such APs also allow all traffic other than port 80 through uninterrupted
17:01:51 <coppro> those are fu
17:01:52 <coppro> *fun
17:02:00 <coppro> time for a reverse SSH proxy
17:02:08 <zzo38> Intercepting the DNS can cause several problems too.
17:04:57 <zzo38> If it also allows everything other than port 80 through uninterrupted, then this helps much (not completely) since you will unlikely access port 80 unless you need a webpage. However, there will then still be the case of accessing files over HTTP in other ways, although this might not be too common over WiFi. Even then, you may be able to use a SSH tunnel or download the file over SSH if you have a remote UNIX shell account somewhere.
17:05:37 <zzo38> (This will also allow you to use web browsers that run in text mode or in X, although you can also use any other program, too.)
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17:40:25 <mroman> I'm surprised my warriors are still on the hill
17:41:45 <ais523_> corewars, or BF Joust?
17:41:51 <ais523_> BF Joust hasn't seen much activity lately
17:42:27 <ais523_> I got frustrated when I got preparation to beat every other program, but not to top the hill
17:43:37 <ais523_> although it and smartlock tend to go back and forth beating each other when me and Oj742 are both active, because the matchup depends on minor details of both programs
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17:51:50 <TieSoul_> Guys, does any of you happen to know what happens when you try to pop a value in Whitespace, but the stack is empty?
17:51:55 <TieSoul_> Does it throw an error?
17:52:04 <TieSoul_> Does it pop 0?
17:52:17 <mroman> corewar
17:56:58 <ais523_> TieSoul_: the problem with Whitespace is that it was basically created as an April 1 project (sort-of like a joke, but with more effort going into it), then abandoned
17:57:06 <ais523_> if you can track down the original interpreter, it's probably best to test on that
17:57:18 <TieSoul_> I have, but Haskell won't run it
17:57:38 <TieSoul_> it says that the module 'IO' is missing
17:58:53 <ais523_> oh, bleh, I find that when I try to run old Haskell code, half the modules are in different places
17:58:59 <ais523_> there's a relatively simple solution but I can't remember what it is
17:59:13 <ais523_> any Haskellers here who know? if not, you could probably ask #haskell, they'll almost certainly know
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17:59:40 <TieSoul_> I tried looking at the source code just now, but Haskell confuses the heck out of me
17:59:57 <ais523_> it's basically just a problem with finding the libraries
18:00:01 <b_jonas> what, isn't whitespace a really old esolang, like older than haskell?
18:00:08 <TieSoul_> no
18:00:18 <TieSoul_> the original interpreter was written in Haskell
18:00:32 <ais523_> main has type "IO ()" in Haskell, so you need a working definition of IO for any program to work
18:01:34 <elliott> b_jonas: there are only a couple esolangs older than haskell
18:01:38 <mroman> I'm a haskeller
18:01:46 <b_jonas> probably because haskell is old
18:01:51 <mroman> And if IO is missing something is really broken :)
18:01:56 <elliott> you can probably compile it with -XHaskell98 or something
18:02:01 <elliott> mroman: it is the module IO.
18:02:07 <mroman> Yeah
18:02:09 <mroman> but that's 98?
18:02:19 <mroman> that should be supported by almost any haskell compiler I thought
18:02:21 <elliott> yes. if it is missing then you are simply not using an ancient implementation
18:02:27 <elliott> no. it is System.IO etc. now
18:02:33 <mroman> I know.
18:02:36 <Melvar> To the best of my knowledge, the one who made whitespace is the guy in charge of Idris.
18:02:37 <ais523_> TieSoul_: Whitespace is old by esolang standards, but Haskell is also old by esolang standards
18:02:45 <ais523_> it just doesn't feel that way, because Haskell's not an esolang
18:02:47 <mroman> but I thought ghc will find it anyway
18:02:54 <ais523_> so people don't normally compare it to esolangs age-wise
18:02:55 <mroman> (that is, if he's actually using ghc)
18:03:15 <mroman> oh
18:03:18 <ais523_> ghc doesn't use the old names for modules unless you tell it to
18:03:21 <ais523_> and I forget how to tell it to
18:03:22 <TieSoul_> I am using ghc
18:03:24 <mroman> haskell98 is a hidden package
18:03:38 <mroman> Since when is that? o_O
18:03:48 <elliott> when did you start using haskell?
18:03:54 <mroman> years ago
18:03:57 <elliott> it is quite possibly before then
18:03:59 <ais523_> actually, the mere name "Haskell98" is a clue as to how old it is
18:04:03 <elliott> haskell98 has been hidden for a long time
18:04:16 <TieSoul_> so how do I un-hide it?
18:04:17 <mroman> I'd say 6 years ago or something
18:04:17 <ais523_> elliott: I found some of my own old Haskell code, it had unqualified module names
18:04:19 <Bicyclidine> i've got thirty years of experience in haskell
18:04:29 <b_jonas> Bicyclidine: what... no way
18:04:34 <elliott> ais523_: if it was written after 2002, you were just out of date :)
18:04:35 <b_jonas> haskell isn't even that old, is it?
18:04:39 <ais523_> b_jonas: it's a parody
18:04:42 <b_jonas> > 2014 - 30
18:04:44 <lambdabot> 1984
18:04:50 <elliott> haskell is 25 years old.
18:04:52 <b_jonas> ais523_: I know, wait, I have a link for that
18:04:54 <ais523_> of people who hire job requirements asking for implausible amounts of experience in new technologies
18:05:00 <b_jonas> ais523_: yep
18:05:09 <ais523_> elliott: that's entirely believable
18:05:28 <ais523_> I started esolanging with Malbolge and INTERCAL a little over seven years ago
18:05:29 <elliott> TieSoul_: -XHaskell98 -package haskell98 might work.
18:05:30 <b_jonas> ais523_: http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=956436
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18:06:18 <b_jonas> > 2014 - 25
18:06:19 <lambdabot> 1989
18:06:32 <TieSoul_> erm
18:06:35 <TieSoul_> how do I do that?
18:06:39 -!- evalj has joined.
18:06:42 <b_jonas> ] 2014 - 25
18:06:42 <evalj> b_jonas: 1989
18:06:45 <TieSoul_> It just says 'Prelude' and doesn't do anything
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18:07:37 <elliott> I doubt it just says "Prelude".
18:07:44 <elliott> if you told me what it actually says I might be able to help
18:08:21 <TieSoul_> it says "Prelude>" and then when I type what you just said it says "Not in scope: data constructor 'XHaskell98'"
18:08:53 <TieSoul_> I guess that means it doesn't exist
18:08:54 <elliott> ghc -XHaskell98 -package haskell98 foo.hs
18:08:56 <elliott> don't use ghci
18:09:02 <b_jonas> taht
18:09:11 <elliott> (:q to exit it)
18:10:16 <TieSoul_> Now it says "Ambiguous module name 'Prelude': it was found in multiple packages: base haskell98-2.0.0,2"
18:10:23 <elliott> okay, add -hide-all-packages
18:10:33 <elliott> before -package haskell98 I think
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18:11:24 <TieSoul_> I think it worked
18:11:50 <TieSoul_> but the file I ran for Whitespace just said it compiled a VM and then shut off :P
18:12:31 <TieSoul_> and it created files VM.hi and VM.o
18:13:09 * Melvar found the Idris implementation of Whitespace, but it was last update five months ago and has bitrotted.
18:13:29 <elliott> TieSoul_: you want ./VM
18:13:33 <b_jonas> TieSoul_: what version of ghc are you using to compile? and what's the full command line you are using?
18:13:34 <elliott> unless...
18:13:35 <elliott> ghc --version?
18:13:41 <elliott> most likely you want to do it again but add --make
18:13:54 <elliott> but also, update your GHC first, I think it is roughly ten years old or something
18:13:58 <elliott> actually, wait, no
18:14:08 <elliott> ./VM should definitely exist with those results...
18:14:54 <b_jonas> maybe it created an executable with a different name?
18:15:40 <TieSoul_> the initial file was called VM.hs bt
18:15:41 <TieSoul_> w
18:16:29 <elliott> ok, I want to see the output of gcc --version and ls
18:16:33 <elliott> er, ghc --version
18:16:41 <elliott> and I want to see the exact command you ran. b_jonas was right, I was wrong :p
18:16:56 <TieSoul_> version 7.6.3
18:17:20 <elliott> okay, that's good
18:17:37 <TieSoul_> and I used 'ghc -XHaskell98 -hide-all-packages -package haskell98 VM.hs'
18:17:58 <b_jonas> TieSoul_: try again with --make as an extra switch
18:17:59 <TieSoul_> output was "Compiling VM < VM.hs, VM.o >
18:18:02 <TieSoul_> "
18:18:15 <elliott> okay, and is there a file called VM?
18:18:17 <TieSoul_> any subsequent attempts to run resulted in no output
18:18:22 <elliott> does ./VM someprogram work?
18:18:34 <elliott> you just compiled VM -- the Whitespace interpreter -- you now need to run it
18:18:36 <b_jonas> (I'm not sure if that helps but it probably doesn't hurt)
18:18:47 <Melvar> Hm, the Idris implementation only requires ripping out a module the contents of which have been added to the stdlib.
18:18:52 <elliott> b_jonas: I don't think a single thing went wrong with compilation
18:20:57 <b_jonas> elliott: possible
18:21:11 <b_jonas> TieSoul_: so can you tell whether there's a file called ./VM or ./a.out or similar?
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18:24:01 <TieSoul_> using the same parameters as before worked with ./VM, but when I input a filename it output nothing when it was supposed to output '6'.
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18:25:07 <ais523_> hmm, what's up with the join/part spam
18:25:18 <ais523_> the timing's too consistent for it to be likely to be a bad connection
18:25:26 <TieSoul_> huh
18:25:28 <ais523_> possibly a broken bot
18:25:29 <b_jonas> ais523_: what spam?
18:25:36 <ais523_> b_jonas: Nona/Anona
18:25:46 <b_jonas> that's not spam, that was only three connect attempts
18:26:44 <ais523_> well, I guess it's the timing
18:33:44 <elliott> TieSoul_: ./VM should not take any parameters btu the filename
18:33:45 <elliott> *but
18:33:53 <elliott> or possibly it should even be ./VM < whitespace.file
18:34:03 <elliott> again, ghc and VM are distinct -- ghc is a Haskell compiler, VM is a whitespace interpreter
18:34:16 <elliott> the flags you needed were for ghc to turn the source code VM.hs into the whitespace interpreter VM, which has its own arguments
18:34:50 <TieSoul_> erm
18:35:03 <TieSoul_> if I try ./VM on its own it gives me an error
18:35:18 <ais523_> what's the message? that could be pretty helpful here
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18:35:55 <elliott> callforjudgement: you mean you're not psychic...?
18:35:57 <TieSoul_> I'm on windows, "'VM' was not recognized as (...) a file'
18:35:59 <elliott> how do you ever help anyone on IRC?
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18:36:09 <elliott> TieSoul_: okay, VM.exe whitespaceprog then
18:36:25 <TieSoul_> VM.exe isn't recognized either
18:37:12 <elliott> what files are listed when you "dir"?
18:37:21 <elliott> I am not great at windows
18:37:34 <TieSoul_> VM.hi, VM.hs and VM.o
18:37:43 <TieSoul_> that's all files starting with VM
18:37:54 <Taneb> Hello
18:39:22 <elliott> TieSoul_: ok, I just looked at the whitespace code.
18:39:29 <elliott> why are you compiling VM.hs? the main program is main.hs
18:39:30 <TieSoul_> I am so stupid
18:39:32 <elliott> VM.hs is just one module
18:39:36 <TieSoul_> I just figured that out
18:39:40 <elliott> :)
18:39:48 <TieSoul_> Banging my head on my keyboard right now
18:39:58 <TieSoul_> well, not right now, but I will be when I finish typing
18:39:59 <mroman> 'pueuhanisa
18:40:08 <TieSoul_> nhmk/':
18:40:17 <mroman> it's hard to hit the enter key
18:40:21 <elliott> it'll become main.exe or something.
18:40:33 <mroman> also the nose is very exposed actually for that kind of task
18:41:49 <TieSoul_> yeah it became main.exe
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18:48:02 <TieSoul_> oh, it throws a 'UserError' because it can't pop :P
18:48:10 <TieSoul_> now I finally know the answer
18:49:16 <Taneb> I have a 25 amazon voucher, what should I spend it on?
18:50:10 <ais523_> what does it say about me that my initial reaction was "£25 of goods from Amazon", and I was almost about to type it before I realized it was a useless answer
18:50:17 <ais523_> as opposed to saying it /because/ it was a useless answer
18:50:38 <Bicyclidine> Taneb: codex seraphinianus
18:50:48 <Koen_> two weeks ago I signed a paper forbidding me to buy stuff from amazon
18:50:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, the collected works of iain m banks
18:50:58 <Taneb> Koen_, why?
18:51:17 <Koen_> something about fighting for idnependant bookshops
18:51:37 <Koen_> (the girl from the bookshop is hot)
18:51:49 <ais523_> Koen_: just pay 1 eurocent shipping, surely?
18:51:58 <elliott> sigh.
18:52:13 <ais523_> (I'm assuming this is related to the recent French tax law changes)
18:52:20 <Bicyclidine> a good reason to have an opinion.
18:52:28 <Taneb> I was thinking something like Pearls of Functional Algorithm Design but that is MORE THAN 25 POUNDS
18:52:34 <ais523_> (and Amazon getting round the letter of a law against free shipping)
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18:53:16 <ais523_> Taneb: do Amazon sell printed copies of the INTERCAL manuals? either of them
18:53:18 <ais523_> if not, they should
18:53:31 <elliott> Bicyclidine: I don't think Koen_ plans on adhering to his pledge.
18:53:39 <elliott> so I'm not sure you can call it an opinion.
18:53:40 <Bicyclidine> but he signed!
18:53:57 <ais523_> it's possible, given that apparently there are entire publishers who work on automatically generating books on demand from GFDL/CC-by-sa content from Wikipedia
18:54:05 <Taneb> ais523_, doesn't look like it :(
18:54:06 <ais523_> and the INTERCAL manuals are GPL and GFDL respectively
18:54:19 <Taneb> Or at least I couldn't find it in 10 seconds
18:54:39 <b_jonas> ais523_: sure, and wikipedia has some export options built in too, only people never seem to notice that
18:54:41 <Bicyclidine> on the other hand, there's a song called "Intercal" on sale for 89¢.
18:54:44 <Koen_> I'm completely adhering elliott, or I wouldn't have signed
18:54:58 <Bicyclidine> album, even.
18:55:09 <ais523_> b_jonas: I remember when those rolled out, and use them when I want to download Wikipedia pages for use offline
18:55:09 <Bicyclidine> it has another song entitled "Zilog Z80".
18:55:19 <b_jonas> ais523_: prominently labelled as "Print/export: Create a book; Download as PDF; Printable version"
18:55:34 <elliott> Koen_: actively or just by default because you didn't buy anything from amazon anyway? :)
18:55:47 <Koen_> uh well :)
18:55:51 <b_jonas> there's an api too for machine interaction with mediawiki
18:55:59 <ais523_> come to think of it, I don't think I've bought anything from Amazon, unless you count using them as the payment processor for Humble Bundle
18:56:00 <Bicyclidine> http://www.amazon.com/Obfuscated-X-Mas-Intercal/dp/B00ALIHXPQ/ hoo boy.
18:56:10 <ais523_> b_jonas: I remember the API rolling out, too
18:56:28 <b_jonas> ais523_: I don't remember these rolling out
18:56:38 <b_jonas> but ok
18:56:39 <Bicyclidine> I've bought a lot from Amazon. THe last time I bought a book not from Amazon it turned out that the company I bought it from had been bought by Amazon a few years ago.
18:56:44 <b_jonas> oh, and there's Special:Export too
18:56:53 <Bicyclidine> Anyway, I know the local used shop uses AMazon to sell off inventory. I guess there's a system for that.
18:56:59 <ais523_> b_jonas: that's used for transferring pages to other wikis, normally
18:57:07 <ais523_> anyone can use the export end, but the import end of it requires special admin powers
18:57:07 <Bicyclidine> amazon gets a cut, probably
18:57:15 <ais523_> which I actually had once, but I'm not sure if I ever used them
18:57:21 <ais523_> it seems possible that I did, but I can't remember why
18:57:25 <b_jonas> ais523_: sure, but the export is useful alone too
18:57:44 <b_jonas> and it was probably even more useful back when the api didn't exist
18:57:47 <ais523_> nope, I didn't
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19:01:35 <fizzie> I've bought a copy of TAOCP from Amazon, which I'll mention because it's a street-credible purchase.
19:01:46 <b_jonas> fizzie: the English original?
19:02:33 <fizzie> The Vols. 1-3 set -- http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Computer-Programming-Vols/dp/0201485419/ -- because Vol. 4A wasn't out yet.
19:03:36 <fizzie> Huh, you can rent books from Amazon now?
19:03:57 <Taneb> fizzie, my housemate has a copy so I don't think I'll buy that just yet
19:04:06 <fizzie> The 1-4A set -- http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Programming-Volumes-1-4A-Boxed/dp/0321751043/ -- sells for $177.26 and rents for $99.25.
19:04:28 <TieSoul_> if the first bit represents sign, does that mean that '11' means '-1'?
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19:04:43 <fizzie> Oh, so it's for a one-semester rent, for people who need it as a textbook.
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19:05:52 <Bicyclidine> Useful.
19:06:07 <Bicyclidine> are there classes that actually use taocp as a textbook?
19:06:13 <fizzie> I haven't heard of any.
19:06:25 <Bicyclidine> would be one scary class
19:06:26 <fizzie> Sounds a bit hard-core.
19:06:41 <fizzie> Esp. using the entire book.
19:07:34 <Bicyclidine> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1989624 My god.
19:08:07 <fizzie> Well, that ("two courses, each based on different sections of TAOCP volume 4a") makes more sense.
19:09:11 <Bicyclidine> the author says when he was an undergrad he had a course use vol 1
19:09:20 <Bicyclidine> in 1973, so
19:12:29 <Bicyclidine> and his courses were fourth-year, sheesh
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19:16:29 <fizzie> (The Intercal album also has a song called Cobol on it.)
19:18:32 <elliott> album?
19:26:39 <fizzie> http://shop.central-processing-unit.co.uk/album/intercal
19:26:56 <fizzie> It was alluded to, earlier; it's what Amazon returns if one searches for "INTERCAL".
19:27:36 <elliott> nice
19:28:28 <callforjudgement> I use searches for "INTERCAL" as a quick method of gauging the usefulness of search engines
19:28:53 <callforjudgement> I weight them higher if they return more relevant/recent information, and/or if they return relevant pages I haven't seen before
19:32:17 <Taneb> ...I still don't know what to spend my Amazon voucher on
19:32:37 <elliott> four and a half drugs
19:33:19 <Taneb> ...I still don't know what to spend my Amazon voucher on
19:33:28 <elliott> fine, a whole five drugs
19:34:08 <ais523_> £25 is that awkward spot where it's not enough for anything really substantive, but too much for something frivolous
19:34:12 <elliott> this album is pretty good
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19:39:15 <fizzie> Taneb: I've heard good things about that Concrete Mathematics book, but it's more than £25 too.
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19:40:27 <fizzie> You could almost buy "generatingfunctionology", which is probably the funniest name of a textbook on any course I took.
19:41:42 <Taneb> Heh
19:48:26 <Taneb> fizzie, right, I'm about to order Concrete Mathematics
19:50:16 <fizzie> I disclaim all responsibility if it turns out to be a pile of horse manure.
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19:57:14 <Bicyclidine> generatingfunctionology is also free online...
19:57:36 <Bicyclidine> i guess a free download is an "almost buy".
19:58:12 <Bicyclidine> Anyway, does anybody know about sound waves? I'm trying to figure out where a sqrt(2) factor comes from in getting a wave's amplitude to match a dB SPL.
20:00:00 <ion> http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/eglin-air-force-base-busted-gaming-reddit.html
20:02:01 <Bicyclidine> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_influence_on_public_opinion
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22:27:57 <zzo38> They had KANGASKHAN [Lv.40] in their bench, with a lot of damage on it but also a lot of energy, and I couldn't remove it normally so instead I switched to GENGAR [Lv.38] in order to sacrifice it and defeating their card at the same time, and then use POKEMON FLUTE to put it back with no energy and then activate CLEFAIRY [Lv.15] again in order to reactivate KANGASKHAN [Lv.40]. And then use ENERGY REMOVAL again once they attached another energy car
22:29:53 <zzo38> There, now he ran out of cards.
22:31:59 <zzo38> (That is the only of their cards that I knocked out.)
22:33:17 <zzo38> This is really a game of positional tactics.
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22:46:38 <FireFly> zzo38: does the Gameboy game allow multiple retreats a turn? I forget
22:47:59 <zzo38> FireFly: Yes; that is a standard rule of Pokemon Card.
22:48:12 <FireFly> Okay
22:48:40 <zzo38> Pokemon Card GB2 uses all of the normal rules, except that you do not get the choice to draw two more cards if your opponent starts the game with no basic pokemon cards in their hand.
22:48:43 <FireFly> It makes cards having a retreat cost of 0 interesting
22:49:45 <zzo38> Yes, I know. It becomes especially useful if you are then confused or sand or something like that.
22:50:36 <zzo38> But, of course, if the retreat cost is zero this also mean it is more difficult to take back any recycle energies which are attached to it.
22:50:52 <zzo38> There are several ways around that.
22:53:25 <zzo38> Did you try to see my fifth Pokemon Card puzzle by now?
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22:58:16 <FireFly> Hm, I don't think I've tried it, or at least not solved it
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23:02:56 <zzo38> Then see if you can figure out anything of it.
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23:11:09 <Sgeo> Ok, pretty sure I prefer Sinatra to the poorly thought out clone in Haskell called Scotty
23:11:19 <Sgeo> Although Simple may be more expressive
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23:48:10 <zzo38> Can you write music using undertone scales?
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23:52:27 <JWinslow23> What's up with esolangs.org?
23:52:38 <JWinslow23> It's not working at all for me for some reason.
23:52:43 <boily> it is dead. very dead.
23:52:49 <boily> also, everything else.
23:53:04 <JWinslow23> Well, how in heck will I be able to go to the pages?
23:53:37 <elliott> I'm... not sure what kind of answer you're expecting there
23:53:57 <JWinslow23> As in, is there any way I can go back and look at the wiki in its former glory again?
23:54:03 <boily> the pages, they are also dead. Gregor may resuscitate them some time soon.
23:54:10 <JWinslow23> Why are they dead?
23:54:24 <boily> hosting problems. a whole host of problems.
23:55:40 <elliott> yes, I would call cloudatcost a whole host of problems
23:55:58 <elliott> JWinslow23: you can use google cache or web.archive.org or whatever for now. there are backups of the wiki too. but this is just temporary
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