2014-06-01: 00:00:22 I think polypoly is a CMS system 00:03:27 poly wants a cookie 00:03:48 boily: i'm sorry, that must clearly be rholy- greek r is always aspirated hth 00:31:46 `learn A rholypoly is an edible Greek species of Armadillidiidae. Goes well with garlic! 00:31:47 I knew that. 00:33:12 gah i think this packet of orange juice is unusually sour 00:47:06 orange juice comes in packets? 00:47:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 00:48:02 what's this about lovers and wives and poly 00:48:05 also why is Quintopia capitalized today 00:50:01 kmc: http://www.supermarket.no/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/235x/f6f16b5d1c90e7b178d9c9bcfc699527/s/u/sunniva-orginal-appelsinjuice-1_75-l.jpg 00:51:55 Quintopia is in a permanent state of being capitalized. 00:52:56 well 00:53:02 in other channel there is a quanticle 00:53:13 it frequently results in mispings 00:53:17 same length and start 00:53:29 i thought a case difference might help 00:54:03 also hi boily, would you like to know what i am most likely to be doing at a given hour of a random day? 00:54:47 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:54:55 Quintopia: yes? 00:57:47 i don't like that brainfuck survey. i want to answer "this and this and this are all good choices" and "it depends" for all of them 00:58:33 http://ibin.co/1OMoLTjhEy49 00:59:29 a standard that just enumerates all possible behaviors without specifying anything sounds pretty good 00:59:43 if a standard is what the survey is supposed to produce 00:59:56 "notsleeping" means "i should be asleep but i'm doing some other random crap". if i filter out "notsleeping" and "bed" those four hours become "blog, sleeping, sleeping, sleeping" 01:00:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:01:17 http://ibin.co/1OMr2pMlF2v4 this is the same thing but on the weekend 01:04:47 is that localtime? 01:05:13 -!- ^v has joined. 01:08:45 yes that's US eastern time (adjusted for dst as necessary?) 01:10:22 your timezone is misaligned hth 01:10:51 a side effect of an evening job 01:11:09 I had one one summer. I was working from 5pm up until about 2am. 01:11:30 I remember 'tis was the summer where I watched the Fullmetal Panic the first time. 01:12:26 is that related to full metal jacket? 01:12:47 also 'tis was makes no sense hth 01:14:02 no. 01:14:26 it's too late for me to properly conjugate. 01:14:49 it's never too late! even the dead can learn to read! 01:15:07 okay time for exercise 01:15:29 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:15:48 what kind? 01:16:30 @src foldr 01:16:30 foldr f z [] = z 01:16:30 foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs) 01:16:40 grammatical workout! 01:17:58 int-e: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23969963/printing-definitions-of-functions-classes-in-ghci-with-lambdabot 01:19:14 i think the answer is "lambdabot can't do that" but i'm not sure enough to answer. 01:20:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:22:41 @tell int-e http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23969963/printing-definitions-of-functions-classes-in-ghci-with-lambdabot 01:22:41 Consider it noted. 01:34:01 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:37:50 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:38:09 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:44:04 -!- realz has joined. 01:44:04 -!- realz has quit (Changing host). 01:44:04 -!- realz has joined. 01:48:51 ~metar CYUL 01:48:52 CYUL 010100Z 11006KT 30SM SCT240 18/09 A3029 RMK CI4 SLP257 01:48:57 windows open tonight. 01:49:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AERATED CHICKEN). 01:49:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:20 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:46 -!- tromp has joined. 01:57:31 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:58:21 halp 01:58:38 someone tell me how it works (and whether it is correct) http://bpaste.net/show/326061/ 01:58:44 i know no haskell 02:00:08 (for us in a repl) 02:01:17 (:[]) 02:03:37 Quintopia, you should hire back the wizards who wrote this 02:05:44 it's supposed to count the number of paths of length at least 1 in a 3x3 grid 02:10:25 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 02:11:00 -!- conehead has joined. 02:15:44 -!- ^v has joined. 02:18:13 :t runStateT 02:18:13 StateT s m a -> s -> m (a, s) 02:20:27 Quintopia: looks plausible hth 02:22:30 although this made not be one of the cases where StateT is clearer than explicit accumulator passing :P 02:22:35 *may not 02:23:37 and adjacents might seem a little inefficient (no caching of results) 02:27:29 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 02:27:47 -!- ^v has joined. 02:28:20 Quintopia: perhaps it would help if i unraveled the StateT part? walk (visited@(cur:_) = do next <- adjacents cur; if (next `elem` visited) then return visited else (walk (next:visited)) ... oh wait there's a bug. 02:28:55 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:29:12 Quintopia: nope it's not correct because it will duplicate final paths if there is more than one already visited cell to the final one 02:30:14 so it overcounts? 02:30:31 yeah 02:31:15 *cell next to 02:33:03 let walk :: StateT [(Integer, Integer)] [] (); walk = do {visited@(cur:_) <- get; next <- lift (adjacents cur); unless (next `elem` visited) (modify (next:) >> walk)} 02:33:06 oops 02:34:07 let walk :: StateT [(Integer, Integer)] [] (); walk = do {visited@(cur:_) <- get; next <- lift (adjacents cur); guard (next `notElem` visited); (modify (next:) >> (get `mplus` walk)} 02:34:13 try that. 02:34:23 oh wait 02:34:28 hmph 02:34:47 I saw that someone did make up a "co-do-notation", which they called "method-notation". 02:36:14 i recall there was a discussion about whether comonad notation was method calls. i don't think everyone agreed. 02:36:22 *was essentially 02:37:06 let walk :: StateT [(Integer, Integer)] [] (); walk = do {visited@(cur:_) <- get; next <- lift (adjacents cur); guard (next `notElem` visited); (modify (next:) >> (return () `mplus` walk)} 02:37:47 <^v> '=a$#""7[H 02:38:03 it doesn't matter what it returns since it's extracting just the state anyway. 02:38:53 i _think_ that will work but someone might want to test it. 02:39:55 I don't know if it is like method calls either, but I can see how it work. It is similar to a do-notation, and you can bind variables, but instead of giving a wrapped result and the variable's value is unwrapped, it is other way around; furthermore, there is a implicit variable "this" which is defined as the current value of the object at the current step. It can be call method-notation, whether or not it is resembling method calls. 02:40:27 Even just like, do-notation does not necessarily have to sequence actions either. 02:41:26 oerjan: just can you tell me what result it gives? i don't have haskell set up here 02:41:41 wait you want _me_ to test it, how awkward 02:42:09 Quintopia: You can also run Haskell codes on lambdabot and on HackEgo 02:43:17 i think i would fail miserably if i tried that 02:43:20 i'm hopeless 02:44:14 oh mismatched parenthesis 02:44:21 sad mac 02:44:24 let walk :: StateT [(Integer, Integer)] [] (); walk = do {visited@(cur:_) <- get; next <- lift (adjacents cur); guard (next `notElem` visited); modify (next:) >> (return () `mplus` walk)} 02:45:59 oerjan: (return () `mplus` ...) actually does something? 02:46:11 of course this would be just the time for that autoscrolling bug of my touchpad driver to happen 02:46:27 Quintopia: result is 644 hth 02:47:01 wow so low. 02:47:23 elliott: sure, in this case the return () gives an alternative which halts the computation there with the current path, and then the part after does the prolonging alternative. 02:47:35 > return () `mplus` [1,2,3] 02:47:37 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num ()) arising from the literal ‘1’ 02:47:42 > return 0 `mplus` [1,2,3] 02:47:44 [0,1,2,3] 02:47:48 er. 02:47:52 why am I doing that 02:47:54 oerjan: and this counts a->b and b->a as separate paths, yes? 02:47:54 the current path being in the StateT state 02:48:03 right, okay. weird 02:48:11 Quintopia: yes. also it does not repeat cells in the path. 02:48:30 good good 02:48:40 i trust you 02:48:59 well you can trust me, but _i_ don't trust that code not to have bugs hth 02:49:48 tdh 02:50:09 but my faith that your code is correct is higher than my faith that random guy's code is correct 02:50:14 although the first 5 elements of paths do look plausible 02:50:39 [[(1,0),(0,0)],[(2,0),(1,0),(0,0)],[(2,1),(2,0),(1,0),(0,0)],[(1,1),(2,1),(2,0),(1,0),(0,0)],[(0,1),(1,1),(2,1),(2,0),(1,0),(0,0)]] 02:51:07 (the paths are backwards from the point the search starts) 02:51:39 there are 9 cells so, hm... 02:52:03 > product [1..9] 02:52:05 362880 02:52:39 or hm 02:52:53 > 1*2*3*4^6 02:52:54 24576 02:53:06 um no 02:53:12 > 1*2*3*4^5*9 02:53:14 55296 02:53:32 that's like a slightly better overestimate 02:53:41 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:53:51 the best underestimate i can think of is 256 02:54:14 and with some cells only having 1-3 neighbors - oh wait, except for the first only 3 can be used... 02:54:29 > 1*2*3^5*4*9 02:54:31 17496 02:54:55 still an overestimate. i don't think it's so implausible that it's 644. 02:55:08 um 02:55:39 that doesn't say much for the security of the combo lock on my smartphone then 02:55:41 i forgot paths don't all have length exactly 9. not that i think that matters much for this estimate. 02:55:54 Quintopia: heh 02:55:59 unless it locks down after too many wrong attempts. i don't think it does. 02:56:53 zzo38: actually HackEgo no longer has haskell 02:57:59 oerjan: could you better explain me the bug you fixed. something like if the final node is adjacent to two visited vertices it counts the path twice? 02:58:12 why did it do that? 02:58:42 right, okay. weird <-- the StateT ... [] () just lifts the mplus of the underlying [] monad, btw 02:59:22 WHy does it no longer have Haskell though? 02:59:42 zzo38: Gregor didn't install haskell on the new server when he moved HackEgo 03:01:03 O, well you can still use Haskell on lambdabot although there are various restrictions if you do that. 03:01:50 Quintopia: yep, because the unless (next `elem` visited) test happens _after_ next has already been selected and thus, if the test fails for two different next's, they give two different "parallel computations" with the same result. 03:01:53 You could also see if you have access to a telnet or SSH with Haskell installed 03:03:11 -!- kmc has left. 03:05:20 while my version works by simply failing the computation with no result at all in that case, and instead doing a return () before the recursive walk 03:06:16 oerjan: the guy who wrote it thinks it's "obvious" that the test will happen after next has been selected. why does it fail in that case? 03:07:46 Quintopia: it fails because a result path is counted once for each "next" that stops it 03:09:01 and the next is not itself included in that path 03:09:13 oh that makes sense 03:15:14 "isnt [] a left zero of >>?" 03:16:13 Quintopia: yes, and so? 03:17:20 he tested the line you pasted above and said it failed 03:17:43 my last version? 03:18:03 i did fix a mismatched parenthesis 03:18:36 the one from :44 03:20:07 it should be let walk :: StateT [(Integer, Integer)] [] (); walk = do {visited@(cur:_) <- get; next <- lift (adjacents cur); guard (next `notElem` visited); modify (next:) >> (return () `mplus` walk)} 03:21:19 i think that's what i said 03:21:37 did he remember to include the other lines from the pastebin? 03:22:03 i would assume so. they were in his repl after all 03:22:30 and also to re-let the following ones 03:22:36 so they use the new version 03:22:49 what kind of failure did he get 03:23:38 if he pasted from irssi there may be formatting problems due to line wrapping (i had to fix that) 03:23:39 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:24:07 -!- ^v has joined. 03:27:34 mapM_ (print.reverse) $ take 30 paths looks precisely as i would expect, and there are no duplicate paths. 03:28:02 <^v> '=a$#]\[[H 03:28:38 ^v: are you a russian encrypted channel 03:29:49 Quintopia: well, not much i can do to help without a bug report hth 03:32:48 you might get one 03:33:02 oops 03:35:58 -!- not^v has joined. 03:36:43 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:37:56 so i did, confusion cleared up now 03:38:10 waht 03:38:14 -!- not^v has changed nick to ^v. 03:40:24 ^v: we now agree that my haskell definition seems to work 04:09:50 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:09:54 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:15:53 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 04:15:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:24:56 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 04:25:27 -!- kmc has joined. 04:26:43 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:46:46 I am writing the C library for VM360, which is based on Ada/CS Object Machine, which is based on IBM 360/370 series mainframe computers. 04:47:44 zzo38: the IBM 360 was a sweet computer 04:48:05 mcpherrin: I don't know much about it though. 04:48:38 zzo38: a bunch of my coworkers used them 04:48:54 OK 04:48:57 they were microcoded, which was pretty aweomse 04:49:21 Yes, I think it would be 04:49:38 apparently the IBM techs had various debugging microcode they could use 04:50:53 It would be sweet if you could get the actual microcode and run that in an emulator 04:52:07 Yes it could, but I don't have any such thing, nor is it what I am making. 04:59:18 How do I detect floating point underflow in a C code? 05:00:09 <^v> so 05:00:12 <^v> making malbolge 05:00:17 <^v> in 4D 05:01:28 <^v> oh and it uses base 9 05:02:27 ^v: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Most_ever_Brainfuckiest_Fuck_you_Brain_fucker_Fuck 05:03:48 anger management issues 05:03:58 <^v> > and take its decimal expansion 05:03:59 Not in scope: ‘its’ 05:03:59 Perhaps you meant one of these: 05:03:59 ‘ito’ (imported from Control.Lens), 05:03:59 ‘bits’ (imported from Data.Bits.Lens)Not in scope: ‘expansion’ 05:04:03 <^v> > then you go fuck yourself. 05:04:04 :1:1: parse error on input ‘then’ 05:04:04 <^v> oh 05:04:05 <^v> crap 05:04:09 <^v> lambdabot, stahp 05:04:32 feature 05:04:34 * ^v beats the shit out of lambdabot until it stops beeping 05:04:58 <^v> elliott, NOTICE atleast ;-; 05:05:01 anyway: malbolge in a hilbert space 05:05:10 it discourages starting lines with > 05:05:22 <^v> show the "not in scope" then notice them the "peraps you meant" 05:09:47 <^v> would anyone even want to try to use my malbolge? 05:29:17 <^v> Talk talk:Turing tarpit 05:29:17 <^v> pssst... spambots... edit this page so it gets protected... —ehird 19:01, 13 April 2011 (UTC) 05:29:17 <^v> Spambot: No. 05:38:08 thank you, I do in fact remember writing that comment three years ago. 05:39:02 "It is easy to figure out my speed, since I walk at a constant speed," Recordis said proudly. 05:42:07 <^v> A regular 4294967296-gon is constructible with straightedge and compass. 05:42:09 <^v> mkay 05:42:36 that's news you can use 05:42:58 procedure for drawing higher polygons with a straightedge and compass: just draw a fucking circle noone can tell the difference 05:43:18 "2^32-agon" has a better ring to it 05:43:36 four score and 2^32 ago 05:44:54 I keep seeing a red lobster ad for "the ultimate, lobster topped lobster" 05:49:31 Bike: if you draw one a thousand miles wide they can 05:50:03 i am not going to do that 05:51:39 <^v> http://puu.sh/9a0uj/6964e4826c.png 05:51:43 <^v> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 05:51:53 <^v> why are my puushes long now D: 05:52:23 excuse you, i'm at LEAST three fourths assing 06:03:11 -!- password2 has joined. 06:08:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:09:38 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 06:09:46 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:12:24 -!- ^v has joined. 06:12:57 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:13:51 These characters start with a deadline to understand using integrals for areas of 2 hours 56 minutes. They only start making progress with 9 minutes left. 06:15:18 that sounds like every maths problems set I tried to do 06:15:34 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 06:15:54 -!- johnw has joined. 06:16:21 also, I feel I should add, what 06:16:29 yeah i'm having trouble parsing t his 06:16:47 I assume Sgeo is watching anime in which people learn maths 06:16:57 reasonable assumption 06:16:59 kmc: book 06:17:20 nope anime 06:18:02 The Gremlin set fires in pools that will destroy the country unless the pools are filled with the exact amount of water needed 06:18:45 buh? 06:18:51 kmc: Blaketh taught me to play pool the other day 06:18:58 except i'm still confused about the rules and also bad at it 06:19:07 you can like, fill a pool with water without computing how much water there is beforehand 06:19:51 is this a maths book in which there's a story and the moral of the story is you should've learned maths 06:20:00 shachaf: the first part is right 06:20:04 also integrals are really demoralizing as homework goes 06:20:13 or a meta-maths book where you have to use integrals or something to figure out how long it took people to learn maths 06:20:23 i had an assignment to do fourier series of a bunch of functions and i pretty much gave up after one trig integral 06:20:26 fuckem 06:20:43 integrals are a bit of a scow imo 06:21:32 "Lunch right now?" the count cried. "It's 11:23 1/2 A.M.!" 06:21:39 the fuck is a scow 06:21:50 "We always have lunch at 11:23 1/2 A.M., on the dot," Recordis said. 06:21:53 a barge 06:24:34 "I hope it's some easy number like 2 or 3," Recordis said. "We need to think of some letter to stand for the unknown base until we find out what it is." 06:24:50 They turned to me, and I came up with another suggestion: that we let the letter e stand for the unknown base. 06:25:09 Sgeo: if you quote much more it's going to rapidly exceed the bounds of fair use. 06:25:42 (I may have ulterior motives for wishing to stop the unauthorised reproduction of bad books into IRC channels I'm in.) 06:25:46 this prose sucks 06:25:56 Bike is correct 06:26:03 hey remember that time we got that ~esoteric~ book linked here 06:26:07 that was like, a whole week ago 06:26:10 man good times huh 06:27:15 It's not a bad book! I love it! Just... the writing seems more blatantly written to serve the needs of the math, which does make sense 06:28:04 that's how it always goes 06:28:16 the plot and writing and characters are total s hit but you keep reading because you're a fucking nerd 06:29:06 I respect your opinion and still think it's a bad book. 06:30:54 At one point, someone slips while etching something on glass, so they decide to find the answer for what was accidentally etched 06:33:57 -!- johnw has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"). 06:42:41 -!- conehead has joined. 07:47:35 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:55:23 -!- scp has joined. 07:56:20 `relcome scp 07:56:21 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:56:48 `cat bin/relcome 07:56:49 rwelcome 07:56:54 Sweet rainbow 07:57:04 and thanks 07:57:09 `run ln -sf rwelcome bin/relcome 07:57:11 No output. 07:57:31 `relcome scp 07:57:32 ​scp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:57:33 Better. 07:59:17 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:59:56 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:13 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:06:13 oh the `undo didn't reinstate links either... 08:08:24 `cat bin/welcome 08:08:25 ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome"; } 08:10:54 `` ls bin/welcome* 08:10:55 bin/welcome \ bin/welcome13 08:13:05 `` ls bin/*welcome* 08:13:06 bin/rwelcome \ bin/welcome \ bin/welcome \ bin/welcome13 08:13:53 `welcome 08:13:54 ​Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:14:05 ic 08:15:28 `run sed -i 's/welcome/welcome "$@"/' bin/welcome 08:15:29 No output. 08:15:38 `welcome hi 08:15:39 ​hi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:16:12 `welcome hi 08:16:13 ​hi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:16:23 I like the rainbow much better than the bold (as experienced via irssi) 08:16:37 Well, there are many variants. 08:16:40 `WeLcOmE scp 08:16:41 ScP: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: . (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 08:19:53 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:21:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:24:03 kmc: http://www.friendsofcoleridge.com/membersonly/Clayson_Ramsgate_files/borges.htm 08:32:26 -!- Burton has joined. 08:40:08 -!- impomatic__ has left. 08:41:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:48:24 shachaf: that last example is way too optimistic about the case-insensitivity of the systems I use 08:53:19 hey we just fixed the url so it _should_ work... 08:53:30 before it didn't at all. 09:06:16 -!- lollo64it has joined. 09:10:02 oerjan: Was the "other way" just removing the main-page part from the URL? 09:11:32 yeah 09:11:59 and the wiki/ 09:15:08 So sneaky. 09:16:07 back when the first `welcome was made, the link didn't work without the wiki/ at least 09:16:43 since there was a root page with links to the archive as well 09:16:48 and the forum 09:41:53 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 09:42:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:13:29 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:28:45 -!- lollo64it has joined. 10:32:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:12:37 there was a forum? 11:17:09 olsner: http://esolangs.org/forum/ 11:25:45 -!- boily has joined. 11:31:37 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:43:06 wait, there is a forum? 11:55:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:08:31 the more I read about rust, the more it makes sense. 12:17:23 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:36:07 -!- yorick has joined. 12:55:11 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:01:58 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:02:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:08:45 -!- kallisti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:18:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:22:05 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:25:45 -!- realz has joined. 13:25:45 -!- realz has quit (Changing host). 13:25:45 -!- realz has joined. 13:30:50 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:34:13 -!- realz has joined. 13:37:19 One thing I wonder is 13:37:29 What languages did the Soviet Union use, outside of assemblyu 13:39:47 Did they use capitalist swine languages or make their own 13:46:13 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:48:28 Bah. SO does not allow anonymous answers at all? I mean I can get the effect by making a new account, and they do not verify e-mail addresses, but there will be an account. 13:48:53 it's just another stupid social media website. 13:51:16 int-e: I think the intended purpose of Stack Overflow is to use gamification and social media techniques to trick people into contributing to an FAQ 13:51:57 maybe 13:52:18 But I don't want to play that game. They tend suck up my time. 13:52:21 tend *to 13:52:26 IRC is bad enough :P 13:57:17 I should brush my teeth. 13:57:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 14:18:53 "I got interested in the Soviet space program and was interested to discover that the software on the Buran spacecraft circa 1988 was written in Prolog. " 14:18:55 I knew it 14:19:00 Prolog is a communist plot 14:19:37 "The author himself participated in many early projects (mostly in hardware) and according to him analog hardware was in favor for a long time, he mentions that space rendezvous tasks didn't use digital computers until the late 70's." 14:20:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAKON 14:20:30 Oh man 14:23:37 nothing wrong with prolog, except for cuts and negation as failure ;-) 14:24:12 (I prefer declarative programming languages) 14:24:26 prolog with cut is a completely different language to prolog without cut 14:26:35 Slereah_: they at least invented their own hardware 14:26:37 oh 14:26:43 you cited something related to that already 14:26:47 er, quoted 14:28:02 I think they had some ternary computers 14:28:09 Yeah 15:09:18 -!- Bike_ has joined. 15:09:45 Slereah_: they started cloning western hardware in... i wanna say the 70s, and before that things were kind of prehistoric 15:09:51 Drakon and DSSP are the languages i can remember 15:10:51 here's a manuscript http://www.sigcis.org/?q=node/85 15:11:00 it's mostly about the relay era, but still interesting 15:11:03 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:11:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 15:12:57 i'm semi-aware of a book on the space coomputers, but it's only in Russian and i don't know anything about it beyond the ISBN 15:15:15 analogue computers make sense. you don't have to worry about clocks, A/D and D/A conversion, and the associated latencies. 15:16:31 -!- tertu has joined. 15:16:35 I wonder where the cited cost savings for ternary computers come from and whether there is anything like CMOS (which cut down power consumption of binary computers tremendously) for ternary logic. 15:18:05 (with emphasis on the "C"omplementary part) 15:18:14 setun was 1958, they sure as fuck weren't using ICs 15:18:46 I cannot fathom what a ternary logic gate would look like. 15:20:21 http://www.computer-museum.ru/english/setun.htm here, have a badly translated article about it 15:20:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:20:49 i guess "Threshold realization of threevalued logic on electromagnetic elements" would be the paper 15:21:26 I think ternary may have been killed by the miniaturization of circuits 15:21:33 small transistors only work properly at low voltages 15:21:44 meaning three voltage levels become much harder to distinguish than two 15:22:02 there's been a steady downward decline in the voltages computers use internally, because of this 15:22:16 http://en.trinary.ru/projects/setunws/ i recommend switching randomly 15:26:10 also try pushing buttons 15:27:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages 15:27:17 >chinese C++ 15:27:20 Oh lawdy 15:29:29 قلب (qlb) – an Arabic Scheme-like programming language exploring the role of human culture in coding[22] 15:29:31 What 15:32:00 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:36:30 -!- ^v has joined. 15:58:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:59:52 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:05:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:57:56 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:57:56 -!- ter2 has joined. 17:03:25 -!- Leb has joined. 17:05:05 !bfjoust almost_a_vibrator >(+-)*100000 17:05:18 ​Score for Leb_almost_a_vibrator: 7.4 17:05:56 Leb: the main way that program wins without the > is that opponents think they've cleared the flag and move on 17:06:19 with the >, if that happens, the enemy program will just assume it cleared a decoy and move on to the flag 17:07:00 yes, it was supposed to mostly draw 17:07:10 brb 17:07:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:07:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:07:53 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:11:22 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:13:18 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:33:20 While on the topic of weird old russian computers, there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_for_operations_with_functions 17:42:56 -!- Sorella has joined. 17:49:32 i love operations with functions! 17:49:52 Slereah_: i think i saw an article on that one. turns out most editors barf on rtl text, who knew 17:50:38 -!- blitter64 has joined. 17:52:18 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:55:41 -!- conehead has joined. 17:56:22 -!- mhi^ has joined. 17:59:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:01:09 -!- Leb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:01:19 -!- Bike has joined. 18:17:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:19:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:26:39 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:30:41 -!- mhi^ has joined. 18:36:00 -!- canaima has joined. 18:36:42 hola:-X 18:36:59 -!- canaima has left. 18:39:43 that didn't last long 18:40:21 -!- lollo64it has joined. 18:40:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:40:46 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:41:37 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_selfie "A space selfie is a selfie (self-portrait photograph typically posted on social media sites) that is taken in space." 18:42:06 v. encyclopædic 18:43:08 Serious topics in the mainstream news 18:46:51 Space selfies can be dated back to 1976 when the lander of the Viking 2 mission took the photo of its deck after landing on Mars; however they were not considered by Discovery News as a true selfie in its list of top 10 space robot selfies. 18:47:14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Curiosity_first_space_selfie_%28raw_image%29.jpg is mars like, dusty 18:47:30 i mean that dusty 18:49:27 There have been worse selfies 18:50:27 list of top 10 space robot selfies 18:50:29 quality journalism 19:04:53 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:06:32 -!- Zuu has quit (Client Quit). 19:09:55 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:12:21 -!- Zuu has joined. 19:34:18 -!- impomatic__ has joined. 19:34:49 -!- impomatic__ has changed nick to impomatic. 19:46:30 Do you know of any C program to parse a Haskell syntax? 19:50:34 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:58:43 no 20:12:46 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:18:57 I want to use a object notation (like JSON or XML or YAML or whatever), but having the features like: * Data types: string, integer, floating-point, null, record, reference, list, foreign-function-call. * External text encoding (if used from a C program, you can therefore make up any text encoding you want). * Non-indentation-sensitive syntax. * An object can be tagged with a name, and referenced before, after, and/or inside of that object. 20:19:33 O, and perhaps also simple macros. 20:19:44 macros in data? 20:20:57 Yes; I want to specify a macro for a certain data structure and use the macro many times just filling in the parameters that differ. Similar to a C macro, kind of. 20:21:34 Doesn't some lisps have a way of encoding recursive structures using some # syntax? 20:21:53 I know that SpiderMonkey (JS) does, and I think that was borrowed from some lisp 20:21:56 I don't know, but I am not trying to make recursive structures anyways 20:22:03 using libz is almost like automatically determining a suitable set of macros 20:22:15 Well, I was thinking about the "give a name of a subexpression and re-use it" part 20:22:49 Oh, hm, maybe that's not what you meant with giving a name to an object and referencing it 20:22:55 it seems that zzo wants parameters. 20:22:56 FireFly: No, I meant to reference it, not re-use it. Furthermore, multiple same expressions with different names can also be considered different references. 20:23:15 like foo(x) = [4,x,4,4,4,4], and then have a data structure of [foo(7),foo(4)] 20:23:52 Bike: Yes, to have a macro like that. 20:25:26 Actually macro could be considered as the same datatype as a foreign-function-call; the differences is just that a macro is defined inside of the data file, and then a foreign-function-call will call a C function or whatever (and which might create an opaque object of its own type, or do other things, including possibly side-effects). 20:25:52 man i've always wanted to call out to C from json, 20:25:56 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Sharp_variables_in_JavaScript aha 20:26:51 that's pretty lol 20:27:25 FireFly: Yes I have seen that 20:39:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:41:32 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:45:05 I can try to make up such format but I don't know what it is called! 20:45:33 Zzo's Cool Data Storage Format 20:47:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:47:13 Maybe I should abbreviate it? Then it would be called "ZCDSF" 20:47:28 good thinking. 20:47:30 I suppose it is OK 20:51:10 wait, there is a forum? <-- only the archive. it was hardly ever used and overrun with spam, so when elliott took over from graue he made it readonly. 20:51:26 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 20:51:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:51:29 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:53:03 i see 20:53:38 Did they use capitalist swine languages or make their own <-- i do recall reading about refal, which seemed interesting. 20:53:42 we used it occasionally just for the fun of using t 20:53:52 but the wiki's better for the sort of thing you'd normally use a forum for, IMO 20:54:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:54:43 i think it mainly existed because graue had a sort of hangup that the wiki _shouldn't_ be used as a forum. 20:57:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:58:00 -!- ter2 has joined. 20:58:28 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 20:58:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:59:27 Bah. SO does not allow anonymous answers at all? I mean I can get the effect by making a new account, and they do not verify e-mail addresses, but there will be an account. <-- that's weird, my first SO answer was definitely unregistered. although i _did_ use my real name and probably gave my email address, it wasn't made into a "real" account until after i had to go through hoops to get it back because my cookies had long since expired. 21:00:12 i suppose they're really sort of accounts anyway. 21:00:25 https://stackoverflow.com/users/3696868/user3696868 21:00:34 is what I meant 21:01:26 yeah that's probably as anonymous as it gets. 21:01:32 I guess "Unregistered" is there way of saying that it's not a full account yet. 21:01:36 *their 21:02:17 * oerjan upvotes you :P 21:02:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:06 @src foldr 21:03:06 foldr f z [] = z 21:03:06 foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs) 21:03:44 @src foldr 21:03:45 foldr f z [] = z 21:03:45 foldr f z (x:xs) = f x (foldr f z xs) 21:04:04 @src foldl 21:04:05 foldl f z [] = z 21:04:05 foldl f z (x:xs) = foldl f (f z x) xs 21:04:16 these are all lies 21:04:18 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 21:04:31 huh? 21:04:34 I just discovered a USB memory stick in a pocket after taking out a pair of jeans from the closet. Surprisingly it works just fine, even though it would have gone through the washing machine. 21:04:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:04:59 foldl :: forall a b. (b -> a -> b) -> b -> [a] -> b 21:04:59 foldl k z0 xs = foldr (\(v::a) (fn::b->b) (z::b) -> fn (k z v)) (id :: b -> b) xs z0 21:05:07 is what GHC.List does for foldl :) 21:05:16 Vorpal: not that surprising 21:05:21 int-e: hm that's the new fusable version, i guess? 21:05:27 myname: @src takes definitions from the Haskell report, mostly. 21:05:29 @src sort 21:05:30 sort = sortBy compare 21:05:33 @src sortBy 21:05:33 sortBy cmp = foldr (insertBy cmp) [] 21:05:42 @src insertBy 21:05:43 insertBy _ x [] = [x] 21:05:43 insertBy cmp x ys@(y:ys') = case cmp x y of 21:05:43 GT -> y : insertBy cmp x ys' 21:05:43 _ -> x : ys 21:05:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:05:56 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:06:01 myname, well, I would have expected the electronics to get damaged by the wash, after all it is not just water, there is the detergent too 21:06:06 oerjan: yes I think so. 21:06:35 maybe you just forgot to wash them and put them in the closet dirty 21:07:14 olsner, no, I'm sure that was not the case, I put used clothes on a hanger behind the door, rather than in the closet 21:07:27 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7994 is the ticket corresponding to that change to foldl. 21:07:39 Given that "workflow" it is extremely unlikely to not have gone through the washing machine 21:07:53 i apparently read 'detergent' as a lab thing now, woo 21:08:28 Bike, is it not the correct English word? 21:08:38 no, it is 21:08:45 Phew 21:09:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:12:10 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:29 pew pew 21:15:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:15:18 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:19:49 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:19:54 -!- scarf has joined. 21:19:58 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 21:21:58 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:22:40 hi party people 21:22:50 hi kmc 21:23:21 -!- boily has joined. 21:24:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 21:24:38 kmc: are you a drug or a complexity class 21:25:31 i seem to be a verb 21:25:46 how does one kmc? 21:26:03 if you find out, let me know 21:26:51 also, kMc is initialism of "kilomegacycles" according to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kmc 21:26:55 cool 21:27:33 Vorpal: Kyoto hotel room view, handheld: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140601-view.jpg 21:28:45 Two adjacent SI prefixes, how rude. 21:29:06 inconceivable! 21:29:20 fizzie: is that composed of 4 pictures? 21:29:38 int-e: Five, I think. 21:29:51 oh. five. I missed one glitch :) 21:29:52 Yes, five. 21:29:57 no they really make the rails like that in kyoto 21:30:37 fizzie, nice 21:30:42 Handheld though? 21:30:45 I though it'd be best to make the actual view match, rather than the railing. 21:30:46 (the rightmost one) 21:30:49 That seam 21:31:05 fizzie, true, but rotate around the nodal point 21:31:25 fizzie, when were you there? 21:31:53 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:57 Yes, yes, but I didn't take a tripod with me in the first place. 21:32:19 * Sgeo reads http://davidwalsh.name/3d-websockets keeping in mind that what he's planning isn't so massive that I need this 'partitioning' business 21:32:20 And we came back, uh... this Friday, I think. It's a bit fuzzy. 21:32:28 what, the complexity zoo has only one class starting with k 21:32:42 (and then promptly ending) 21:33:02 Btw, I'm having fun with DF atm, haven't played it for ages 21:33:10 Like over a year 21:33:17 Having fun with this new minecart thing 21:35:39 Vorpal: We'll be doing a quick Stockholm-Kolmården-Linköping-Örebro-Stockholm drive-around soonishly, too. 21:35:51 fizzie, when is that? 21:35:56 June? 21:36:17 Yes. 21:36:30 Still working then 21:36:59 -!- Zuu has joined. 21:38:00 fizzie, btw I was in the Chinese park this friday. Very nice and quiet, the weather wasn't the best. Even rained a bit. I like that though 21:40:38 Ethernet port isn't working for someo reason. 21:40:41 That's on our list of stops. Assuming we can find it. (Which we probably will; I've got the coordinates, and seen the signposts in Street View.) 21:40:53 Taneb, OS? Did it work before? 21:41:02 Is the other end connected? 21:41:04 Vorpal, don't think it's OS 21:41:06 It has worked before 21:41:07 Have you tried rebooting? 21:41:24 It's good until the wall 21:41:28 I have tried rebooting 21:41:33 itym "have you tried turning it off and on again" 21:41:48 Taneb, the OS question was more a question of: "what commands should I suggest" 21:41:53 back in my day I had to edit kernel modules with busybox sed to get my ethernet port working 21:42:06 Vorpal, I'm going to try waiting a day or two first 21:42:11 kmc: haha, sweet 21:42:13 Taneb, how will that help 21:42:18 It was working last night 21:42:24 Taneb, anyway you should try connecting it to another device 21:42:35 I don't have any other ethernet devices 21:42:38 Oh okay 21:42:45 have you tried smashing it with a hammer twh hth 21:42:51 I don't have a hammer :( 21:42:58 Taneb, anyway what about ifconfig? What does it say? ifconfig -a if it isn't listed at all 21:43:00 mcpherrin: http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/12/hex-editing-linux-kernel-modules-to.html 21:43:02 Cant touch me! 21:43:08 HAMMER TIME! 21:43:19 * oerjan swats Zuu -----### 21:43:26 Ough :( 21:43:27 Vorpal, ifconfig looks friendly 21:43:29 kmc: oh yeah I've read this post :p 21:43:36 Taneb, right...? 21:43:40 kmc: I totally knew your blog before I knew you :p 21:43:54 Taneb, so what does it say with respect to eth0 or whatever your ethernet interface is 21:43:58 Vorpal, I ought to be doing revision, so I'm going to live with this workaround 21:44:04 Zuu: now be glad i don't have a hammer 21:44:04 okay 21:44:09 "UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST" 21:44:20 Taneb, no inet address though? 21:44:30 inet6 addr: fe80::5604:a6ff:feb4:8a1c/64 Scope:Link 21:44:41 mcpherrin: :) 21:44:47 Taneb, Right, only link ipv6, no actual ipv4 21:44:49 oerjan: oh, the swatter! can I mapole him too? 21:44:49 oh, internet problems 21:44:51 i wanna say "i get that a lot" but it's more like I get that occasionally 21:44:51 time to die 21:44:55 Taneb, I guess dhcp could be dead? 21:44:58 i get that a nonzero amount 21:45:11 I'm not sure what dhcp is 21:45:17 boily: hey we're supposed to make him _happy_ we're not using hammers 21:45:21 it's the thing that gets you an ip address 21:45:29 oerjan: but... hammers are hammerlicious 21:45:34 Then I don't think I can do anything about that 21:45:35 Taneb, the thing that makes it so that you don't have to manually input ip and so on for your computer 21:45:55 but uh, does it say he has an inet6 addr there, or is that the router. i forget how ifconfig works 21:46:08 Taneb, instead it sends a broadcast message like "hey give me IP and netmask and all that shiz!" and the DHCP server replies with the requested info 21:46:20 oerjan: it's not a hammer, it just looks like one. 21:46:44 Bike, it is a link ipv6 21:46:48 I think the issue may be that it's only given me an IPv6 addr but only has an IPv4 connection to the outside world? 21:46:51 (besides, my grilf and I went to the Musée d'Art Contemporain today. I'm not sure what things should be looking like now.) 21:46:53 Bike, it is auto-assigned based on the MAC 21:46:57 your computer is broadcasting an ip address 21:47:00 Bike, it means nothing in other words 21:47:13 weak 21:47:52 Bike, "real" ipv6 would have Scope:Global 21:48:02 that's a link-local address. "Link-local addresses for IPv4 are defined in the address block 169.254.0.0/16, in CIDR notation. In IPv6, they are assigned with the fe80::/10 prefix." 21:48:05 too complicated 21:48:18 Bike, nah, not really 21:48:23 boring 21:48:27 int-e, I wonder why I don't see the ipv4 ones normally 21:48:33 boily: ceci n'est pas un marteau 21:48:36 but there is always the ipv6 ones it seems 21:48:38 OK, now I wrote the ZCDSF specification. 21:48:44 which means it will not get you very far 21:49:05 Vorpal: maybe because it's more dangerous to pick one of only 2^16 addresses at random. 21:49:10 True 21:49:17 heck yeah fe80:: 21:49:19 http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/zcdsf.txt Can you please review this to see what it is? 21:50:22 it's a data format hth 21:50:36 I know that. 21:50:53 I meant to make a opinion/question/comment/complaint about it, please. 21:51:18 zzo38: 4Hello a 4 followed by a name or "ello" as a hollerith string? 21:52:40 int-e: It is a hollerith string. If you do not want that, put a space in between, although a number followed immediately by a name is not a valid data anyways. 21:52:49 night 21:54:31 I believe that in all such cases where ambiguity of being more than one token is possible, making them multiple tokens will not result in a valid file anyways. 21:55:32 If you find a counterexample, then please tell me. 21:56:32 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:57:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 21:58:15 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:01:27 zzo38: you're probably right, but it'd be easier to reason about if "H" was not a name, but another special character. 22:01:47 5*hello 22:02:57 oh and I did not understand what you mean by "extra semicolons" in the description of records and lists. 22:03:20 OK, yes perhaps using * would be better; I may fix that 22:03:42 What I mean by "extra semicolons" is, for example, [1;2;3;4;5] is valid and so is [1;;;2;3;4;;;;;;5;] 22:03:54 Perhaps I should clarify that. 22:03:56 I mean as I read it, [1;2;;;;4] would be ok, but [[1;2;;;;4]] wouldn't, because there are extra ; inside the first item of that list. 22:04:15 And I assume that's not the intended meaning. 22:04:31 in fact "extra ;" is not really defined. 22:06:35 now with extra ;! 22:08:04 That isn't intended meaning. 22:08:10 I sort of dislike the flexibility of the encoding (ASN ambiguities are one important way of breaking the SSL certificate infrastructure, where a CA believes it's signing a certificate for A, whereas the browser thinks it's for B) 22:08:19 [[1;2;;;;4]] is OK and means the same as [[1;2;4]] 22:09:26 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 22:10:06 -!- conehead has joined. 22:11:05 Grr why isn't --disable-web-security working 22:11:57 In what software is that not the default? 22:12:25 zzo38: perhaps make it explicit that extra semicolons are permitted immediately after the [ and immediately after each list item. 22:12:26 int-e: OK, I fixed to use * instead of H and added a section about clarification. 22:12:27 There we go, had to completely exit Chrome 22:12:43 int-e: O, OK, perhaps I should write that instead; it is a better way to say it. 22:13:28 Are there any actual malicious sites out there waiting to prey on anyone who happens to have --disable-web-security active? 22:13:48 OK, I fixed it. 22:14:22 There are malicious sites that activate when a cosmic ray hits your DNS server 22:15:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 22:15:58 * oerjan now imagines if that gave the DNS server superpowers instead 22:16:16 routing against evil 22:16:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:17:29 Jafet: yeah, I've seen network switches mis-forwarding traffic due to a bit flip 22:19:07 int-e: Maybe you don't like ASN ambiguities, although what kind of flexibility you need depends on the application. 22:20:27 zzo38: yes. you didn't state any requirements or rationale of any kind, so there ... 22:20:53 You are right I didn't. Should I have done? 22:21:11 I don't know, it depends on your requirements ;) 22:22:11 If you ask me, some sort of scope and context would be nice, but such things tend to be tedious to actually write. 22:23:38 And obviously they are not necessary to use such a format. 22:24:59 I know, these reasons are the ones why I didn't write such a thing. 22:26:47 -!- realz has quit (*.net *.split). 22:27:33 One thing is that it is simple and flexible, and supports macros and references. 22:27:45 These are some of the important reasons to me. 22:29:42 hmm. macros - is there a way to find the end of a macro without knowing its implementation? 22:31:52 zzo38: I guess you never really say what a macro invocation looks like. am I missing anything? 22:34:36 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:34:50 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 22:36:17 -!- realz has joined. 22:38:06 int-e: Yes; a macro invocation always expands to a data value. I thought I mentioned that. 22:41:55 zzo38: yet you do not say what it looks like. a macro *definition* has the shape Name(Arg1,Arg2,Name1=Foo1,Name2=Foo2), and presumably that also holds for the invocation, but it's not stated. 22:42:19 int-e: O, OK, I will fix that. You are correct though 22:43:24 OK I fixed it 22:46:43 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:49:19 ok. 22:49:39 Tell me if anything else may be wrong/confusing! 22:55:57 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 22:58:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:58:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:58:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:59:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:59:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:59:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:00:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:00:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:00:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:00:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:01:00 -!- glogbot has joined. 23:01:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:01:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:01:10 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:01:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:01:46 -!- EgoBot has joined. 23:02:19 rampaging bots 23:05:42 ram-paging bots? 23:06:47 Do you know of any C program to parse a Haskell syntax? <-- hugs is written in C so probably contains some... 23:07:44 -!- blitter64 has joined. 23:08:18 zzo38, one of my friends wrote one! Somewhere in https://github.com/ThatOtherPerson/dhc 23:09:12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Curiosity_first_space_selfie_%28raw_image%29.jpg is mars like, dusty <-- "The image was acquired while MAHLI's clear dust cover was closed." so possibly not quite. 23:09:43 @tell Bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Curiosity_first_space_selfie_%28raw_image%29.jpg is mars like, dusty <-- "The image was acquired while MAHLI's clear dust cover was closed." so possibly not quite. 23:09:44 Consider it noted. 23:11:06 dust doesn't ahve to be inside the camera... 23:11:22 i'm pretty sure mars gets dust storms. 23:11:43 (also iirc most of that dust is rust) 23:11:52 @clear-messages 23:11:52 Messages cleared. 23:21:11 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:24:59 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:34:35 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:39:32 -!- blitter64 has joined. 23:40:06 Now I added a introduction. Is it OK? 23:48:34 In case a format specification is required at the beginning of the file, you can use the following (which is a comment and ignored by ZCDSF): #!/usr/bin/valid-zcdsf 23:48:35 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 23:50:32 It is not necessary to have a file on your computer called /usr/bin/valid-zcdsf in order to use this. 23:50:58 oerjan: Mozilla should have just sent a mars rover 23:51:10 -!- aretecode has joined. 23:51:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2014-06-02: 00:07:39 zzo38: yes, the introdution looks good. reading between the lines, I can see that you want something human editable rather than just a data exchange format for programs, which explains the flexibility in the syntax 00:08:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:18:28 How well do you think it is compared to other formats and stuff? What one you use can depend on the application, but I would like to know other people's opinions on these comparison between formats too 00:24:24 of the standard ones I tend to like JSON best but it's inconvenient for embedding binary data (since, as you write, it's tied to Unicode) I agrree that the standard text representation of XML is too verbose, and that binary formats will not be human readable nor editable. 00:26:06 -!- aretecode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:13 Oh and references are a nice touch (I've seen such before in lpmud save files, hmm :) ). I'm less convinced that macros should be part of the data format. 00:27:57 (I'd be worried about somebody writing F(x) = [x;x] and then F(F(...F(42)...)) and crash my program.) 00:28:38 but of course references have the same potential, if one isn't careful 00:29:25 Adding limits can avoid the F(F(...F(42)...)) problem. This is what SQLite does. 00:29:45 is this right? [A.[A.[A.42,A],A],A] 00:29:53 err, , -> ; 00:30:47 int-e: Yes, it is valid, although may be ambiguous depending on the application. 00:30:49 Or do I need 3 names for that? 00:31:08 Actually perhaps I should just specify you need 3 names for that. 00:31:12 It wasn't previously clear. 00:31:25 Needing 3 names is probably clearer and simpler and more sensible. 00:31:54 Note that references are their own datatype, not the type of whatever it is referencing. 00:31:55 Oh. What about [A.[A]]? 00:32:04 Yes, that is valid. 00:32:25 (why is this restricted to list items?) 00:32:26 It is a list containing a list containing a reference to the first item of the first list. 00:33:21 It is restricted to list items because of what references are and are not. They do not represent a copy of the data. 00:34:05 it precludes {A=ref.[1;2;3];B=ref} 00:34:53 That wouldn't make sense though. If you want to use the list [1;2;3] in several places, you should want a macro, not a reference. 00:34:53 which seems sensible. (whereas A.[A] is a bit silly) 00:35:07 zzo38: but then it would be duplicated 00:36:21 References represent a pointer to the data, and are certainly not interchangeable with the data themself! 00:36:27 It just seems strange to forbid that but allow [ref.[1,2,3],{A=ref,B=ref}] 00:36:52 zzo38: yes. I want A and B to point to the same list. 00:37:00 Perhaps it does seem strange to you, but to me it doesn't 00:37:03 not to two equal lists. 00:37:15 int-e: wouldn't that make A the actual list [1;2;3] but B only a reference to it? 00:37:16 int-e: Well, references point to a position in a list. 00:37:18 so it's not quite what you want 00:37:30 elliott: Correct. 00:37:54 you'd need, like, &ref.[1;2;3] 00:38:06 -!- ter2 has joined. 00:38:28 Oh. [ref.[1;2;3];ref] and [ref,ref.[1;2;3]] are not the same? 00:38:42 (sorry, I still write , for ;) 00:38:52 That is correct they are not the same at all. 00:39:02 ok. that is strange to me. 00:39:03 hence Note that references are their own datatype, not the type of whatever it is referencing. 00:39:34 but fine. 00:39:48 int-e: presumably foo.x is like ({ foo = &x; *foo }) for some imagined foo, so to speak, and foo is like... well, foo 00:39:57 or whatever. 00:40:09 (then the lpmud reference (sic!) was invalid though, since that encoded actual sharing.) 00:40:47 or encodes ... I know for a fact that a couple of those things are still running 00:47:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNKNOWABLE CHICKEN). 00:48:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:48:48 aaargh. I've been wondering for a week now why somebody would calle a function "runit" ... I read it as 'r-unit'... 00:59:01 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:00:43 -!- monotone has quit (Quit: "I can hear myself... I think I'm a bit afraid."). 01:01:02 -!- monotone has joined. 01:03:06 heh. I found this comment in lambdabot: | not classFound -- can't trust those dodgy folk in #haskell 01:03:30 @instances Dodgy 01:03:30 Couldn't find class `Dodgy'. Try @instances-importing 01:13:23 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:14:41 why would you nit a ru 01:15:30 @instances-importing Extremely.Unsafe Dodgy 01:15:31 Couldn't find class `Dodgy'. Try @instances-importing 01:30:25 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:52:23 -!- blitter64 has joined. 02:06:28 !ping 02:06:34 Pong! 02:08:23 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:30:13 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:31:33 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: sleeeep). 02:45:09 -!- MoALTz has joined. 02:45:41 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:51:27 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 03:00:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:01:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:51:19 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:53:03 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 05:07:53 hi sgeo, how goes it? 05:08:10 Situation normal 05:15:52 Sometimes I think I'm the sort of person who recognizes his mistakes, and then proceeds to do nothing about them.... how do I fix that mistake? 05:16:40 read a book 05:17:49 You did something (although not much) about that mistake, which is, to ask a question about it. That isn't doing much, of course! 05:29:10 O no, maybe ZCDSF is not LALR(1). I am trying to use it with the Lemon parser generator and get errors, which I think is because it has to look ahead a lot in order to figure out the difference of a macro invocation than a macro definition. 05:35:06 Perhaps it can be resolved in the tokenizer? 05:43:06 Rust has this property that you can parse the source into a "token tree" before expanding macros 05:43:09 that turns out to be very useful 05:45:14 tt ::= '(' tt ')' | '{' tt '}' | '[' tt ']' | token tt | '' 05:45:16 approximately 05:46:17 macro expansion is sort of ugly though; there's an AST node type for each place a macro invocation can appear (ExprMac, PatMac, etc.) and these are expanded at some point 05:46:40 Have macros changed since the last release, or from last release and release before then? 05:46:40 and then all the code which runs after that point has like ExprMac(_) => tcx.sess.bug("unexpanded macro") 05:46:47 I'm figuring maybe I should look at a stable macro system 05:46:47 Sgeo: I don't pay attention to releases 05:46:56 How much is it changing? 05:47:06 as far as I'm concerned there are two versions of Rust: master, and whichever one Servo is using 05:47:11 rust seems like a bad place to look for stability 05:47:13 and the one Servo is using is almost never a release 05:47:19 the macro system isn't changing that much, though 05:47:27 I just added the ability to expand macros in pattern position 05:47:37 ooh 05:47:57 and the mechanisms for "procedural macros", i.e. running arbitrary Rust code at compile time to produce an AST, are changing some 05:48:06 and those are more exposed to other changes to compiler internals, of course 05:48:16 but the plain Macros By Example macros haven't changed too much since I started using the language almost a year ago 05:50:30 here is the graph of how far behind Rust master Servo has been over time: http://people.mozilla.org/~mbrubeck/servo-rust-updates.svg 05:51:58 i like how when you do update it's not usually to master 05:52:42 yeah because in the time between starting an update and finishing it, master will have moved forward 05:53:03 by 10 days? hee. 05:54:10 yes, it can easily take 10 days to update several 100k LoC for a month or two of language changes 05:54:21 and test it on all platforms and rebase it against the other changes happening in Servo etc. 05:54:44 Mozilla has this "badges" thing (idk really) and you may be amused by the image for the relevant one: https://badges.mozilla.org/en-US/badges/badge/Servo-Rust-upgrade 05:54:50 what platforms is servo targeting btw 05:55:06 oh that's pretty good. 05:55:08 right now, x86-64 Linux, x86-64 OS X, and ARM Android kinda 05:55:21 firefox tells me its connection to mozilla.org is insufficiently secure. 05:55:22 Kinda? 05:55:27 lolol 05:55:39 Bike: the Android testing is not very automated, so it tends to regress a lot 05:55:44 This site does not supply identity information... who could they be....... 05:55:50 I think currently we can't run JavaScript on Android. 05:55:55 in fact people are puzzled as to how we were ever able to 05:55:58 * kmc -> afk -> ice cream 05:56:57 good choice 06:03:01 -!- password2 has joined. 06:04:33 http://doc.x3dom.org/developer/x3dom/runtime/index.html 06:04:41 * Sgeo hits his head on a convenient wall 06:05:46 a very nice and clean bar 06:18:21 [TAS] GC Crazy Taxi by solarplex in 05:53.18: http://youtu.be/O2wnNYmpABg 06:22:18 every channel I'm in becomes #rust 06:22:24 I'm vaguely aware that this can be annoying 06:23:07 lol 06:23:57 mmm ice cream 06:30:21 you got that right 06:30:51 Should I try to learn raw WebGL or some convenient library like Three.JS? Or both? 06:34:31 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:34:39 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:37:52 what do you want to make? 06:38:22 Raw webgl is kinda annoying compared to shiny things like ThreeJS 06:38:34 so if you don't need it, use the abstractions 06:39:06 OpenGL is pretty low level and WebGL / GLES remove more of the stuff you'd want for using OpenGL "by hand" 06:40:10 If only we'd had WebDirectX.... 06:41:20 Well, it could be interesting to learn how the low level stuff works 06:41:35 And use the abstractions for anything interesting 06:42:13 mcpherrin: just write an activex plugin 06:43:20 Programming first 'clicked' in my mind when reading about ActiveX 06:45:33 what about it? 06:47:04 I think... just the concept of the computer being entirely controlled by code 06:47:08 I'm not sure. I was a kid 06:48:32 cool 06:58:08 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:05:02 ah a classic "Users like this are like a mongoose backed into a corner: with its back to the wall and seeing certain death staring it in the face, it attacks frantically, because doing something has to be better than doing nothing. This is not well adapted to the type of problems computers produce." 07:05:31 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html 07:22:50 I have always loved metaballs 07:23:26 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 07:25:59 what about meatballs? 07:26:04 fungot: I found a food truck selling "fonduewurst" 07:26:05 kmc: http://tinyurl.com/ fnord is a confusing little bit of code i've had to be crashed to the ground to touch your nose. 07:27:59 kmc: they're awesome to look at 07:28:07 Oh, you changed the word 07:29:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 07:33:53 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:41:17 -!- slereah has joined. 07:41:22 Hello, I would like to magic 07:41:29 Can you teach me the secret arts 07:42:04 `` WeLcOmE slereah | rainwords 07:42:06 ​SlErEaH: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: . (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 07:42:30 Nice spell~ 07:43:47 I do not think we are a school for any secret arts. (If we were, it wouldn't be much secret, isn't it?) 07:44:26 Then why do you have the HackEgo golem 07:45:06 To write strange messages like that. 07:45:46 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:45:49 HackEgo, kill all humans 07:46:16 slereah: you cannot command it without the secret art of syntagma 07:46:48 ``help 07:46:48 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `help: not found 07:46:51 Aw 07:49:41 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Munus sigsigga ag bara ye). 07:53:15 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:56:29 I have an exam in like 4 hours 07:56:33 Time to clean my room 07:58:44 `coins 07:58:45 ​crtcoin bracoin quycoin kellosophiloxicoin blindex.phpcoin bitbitzcoin killcoin neurcoin abccoin prestowcoin swellicoin thumseycoin aheltscoin rnatacoin rolcoin um-32coin ootcoin evilleravillcoin unlolanptcoin byacoin 08:02:41 bitbitzcoin 08:21:52 crtcoin uses old, broken CRT monitors as physical coins. 08:22:12 Must be a big coinpurse 08:25:33 I helped my friend haul a 100 kg Trinitron flat-tube CRT television the other day 08:25:51 flat tubes weigh even more than usual tubes 08:27:03 Is there a connection between Trinitron brand aperture grilles and trinitrotoluene? 08:28:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:28:54 i hope not 08:28:57 for my friend's sake 08:30:16 it's probably trinity+tron ... trinity because of the three colors in RGB? perhaps 08:30:52 My bookshelf is getting increasingly full :D 08:31:20 olsner: It's kind of silly, since what it improved on also had three colors and elec-tron beams. 08:32:09 apparently trinity is because they merged the three beams into one beam 08:32:33 Oh, I guess that makes sense. 08:32:41 For some values of sense, anyway. 08:32:45 The Holy Trinitron. 08:35:49 (Except I guess it doesn't have holes?) 08:36:16 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39735&oldid=39722 * 84.174.111.48 * (+41) 08:36:33 ...is a bookshelf the right place for a book of stamps? 08:36:42 "the Erlenmeyer flask was invented by Dr Julius Flask" 08:36:42 i like to put them in the box of envelopes 08:36:43 heheheh 08:37:23 slereah: what 08:37:30 Right, my book of stamps is now on my bookshelf 08:38:03 myname : it is 08:38:05 amusing 08:38:49 where is it from? 08:39:11 It was from Uncyclopedia apparently but got deleted 08:39:17 ah 08:40:02 rustc has a flag that prints out the elapsed time for each compiler pass as they run (some 40 or so of them) 08:40:12 this makes long compile times feel a lot less frustrating 08:40:25 stuff is happening! borrows are being checked and freevars are being found! 08:40:28 Does it have a flag that lets you play tetris while it's compiling? 08:40:34 fizzie: patches welcome 08:40:40 though that might require an RFC first 08:41:01 look through https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/blob/master/0000-template.md 08:41:20 Why are we doing this? What use cases does it support? What is the expected outcome? Why should we *not* do this? What is the impact of not doing this? 08:41:36 Yes, those are the kind of questions I might have trouble with. 08:41:36 I've missed my chance this academic year to make lecture notes on a typewriter :( 08:41:56 fizzie: omg that's actually a hilarious idea 08:42:28 mcpherrin: how about a nice game of global thermonuclear war 08:42:38 kmc, I watched that film last night! :) 08:42:41 don't let the build succeed until you can clear a line 08:42:56 kmc: Another suggestion: if the real passes don't seem to be enough, you can add fake "reticulating splines" kind of ones. 08:43:26 Not last night, the other night 08:45:09 Taneb: :) 08:45:16 fizzie: yes, it reminds me very much of that kind of thing 08:45:25 Also Hackers, which is the most 90's film imaginable 08:45:43 Taneb: Hack the planet! 08:46:34 Taneb: http://www.avclub.com/article/ihackersi-may-have-been-of-its-time-but-it-was-als-72249 08:48:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:48:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:48:47 my current task involves converting a bunch of small functions to a different form 08:48:55 which is nicely incremental work, and not too challenging 08:49:00 which means I'll probably stay up all night doing it :/ 08:50:55 rust is far too boring with what it'll accept as function names 08:51:28 Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictograms at least is needed 08:52:33 fn (){} 08:52:35 kmc, good read, thanks 08:54:01 hooray 08:55:43 I love Hackers 08:55:43 mcpherrin: but you can do https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/0b1c57d021e1899611a7 at least 08:56:03 kmc: haha, true 09:01:16 hmm I should have a party where we get roller blades and 90s laptops and hack the gibson 09:01:21 yes 09:01:22 count me in 09:01:28 I even have rollerblades! 09:01:36 though I'm bad enough at using them sober... 09:01:50 I don't have them so :p 09:02:06 I ought to get some 09:02:40 Eugene Belford 09:04:18 "Rust input is interpreted as a sequence of Unicode codepoints encoded in UTF-8, normalized to Unicode normalization form NFKC" 09:04:21 I have discovered that this is lies! 09:04:31 python3 -c 'print("#![feature(non_ascii_idents)]\nfn sp\u00e4tzle() { }\nfn main() { spa\u0308tzle() }")' > foo.rs && rustc foo.rs 09:04:34 foo.rs:3:13: 3:21 error: unresolved name `spätzle`. 09:04:41 lies. 09:05:06 kmc: lol, not really that surprising 09:05:16 even in the future nothing works 09:05:36 kmc: it is a well-known lie unfortunately 09:05:43 fn ∯(){} is all I really want 09:05:54 `unidecode ∯ 09:05:55 ​[U+222F SURFACE INTEGRAL] 09:05:59 spätzle is delicious btw 09:06:00 OH WELL 09:06:14 or ∃ is a great one for collections 09:06:18 mcpherrin: have you been to http://walzwerk.com/ ? "authentic and unique East German cuisine in the San Francisco Mission district" 09:06:30 kmc: nope! should I ? 09:06:33 yes 09:06:39 tbh I haven't eaten many places in SF 09:06:56 I am told that the German culinary divide is more north/south, and "East German cuisine" is more about decor and such 09:06:57 Me neither 09:06:59 in the year I've been here, probably only a few, and half of them are burritos 09:06:59 but still, tasty 09:07:28 so my previous city was very german 09:07:32 and I do miss the german food 09:07:42 you should eat there and then watch Good Bye Lenin! 09:07:51 (Kitchener was until some nastiness earlier this centry named Berlin) 09:08:10 or last century? 09:08:42 anyway I didn't know that 09:08:43 that's funny 09:08:53 there's a Madrid, Iowa but it's pronounced MA-drid 09:08:55 c.c 09:09:28 mcpherrin: I found a food truck in Portland that offers currywurst and "fonduewurst" 09:10:18 I have not been to a single Yorkshire-style restaurant, which probably don't exist 09:11:03 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:11:09 This is despite living in York 09:11:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:11:35 I think non-existence is a pretty good excuse, tbh 09:11:54 kmc: omg I miss currywurst 09:11:59 i neeeeds it 09:12:38 it's pretty easy to make at home 09:12:49 less so if you're picky about the finer points of the sauce 09:13:29 and I'm not :P 09:13:38 Rosamunde has it, at least the Mission location 09:13:56 and there's a "King of Cürrywurst" [sic] food truck 09:14:29 Misplaced dots, eh 09:15:44 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=03222004 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=03252004 09:15:47 kmc: my attempts to bootstrap a rust compiler that uses the YOLO keyword aren't going well :p 09:17:33 is gonna need a lot of #[cfg(stage0)] 09:17:45 why? as long as you don't use it in the compiler itself 09:25:05 kmc: 'cause I removed unsafe, haha 09:30:51 well there's yer problem 09:31:14 gotta sleep now, ttyl all 09:31:26 G'night, kmc 09:31:35 G'naneb 09:50:35 YOLO { *(0 as *u8) } 10:16:29 -!- boily has joined. 10:55:56 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:01:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:01:46 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:02:45 -!- atehwa has joined. 11:04:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 11:06:47 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:07:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:16:56 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:17:17 -!- edwardk has joined. 11:30:46 -!- yorick has joined. 11:32:58 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:46:06 -!- scoofy has joined. 12:02:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:19:54 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:42:34 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:44:55 -!- M28 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:06:21 -!- M28 has joined. 13:25:33 Every part of my body is Turing complete 13:31:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:36:06 are DNA processes turing-complete? 13:37:26 Not sure 13:37:46 I don't know how you could make a loop with DNA 13:44:20 slereah: ask your kids 13:45:57 -!- spiette has joined. 13:47:00 You don't need kids for that 13:47:06 Cell division is enough 13:47:34 But how do you do conditions on that loop 13:51:54 "DNA processes"? 13:52:29 and it's easy to make a DNA loop! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmid lolol 13:53:19 Be careful with plasmids man 13:53:29 Last time I took some I had bees coming out of my hands 13:57:22 that sounds excruciatingly painful 13:58:00 http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/063/b/2/ttdi_bioshock_1__bees_by_anniezard-d3awuto.jpg 13:58:06 http://mimg.ugo.com/201002/36219/cuts/insect-swarm-3_480x360.png 13:58:08 Aaaah 13:58:10 So painful 14:05:59 There something called HDNA (H for Hofstadter). I think it's also know as typogenetics or something. 14:06:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:07:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-stranded_DNA ? 14:07:16 Consecutive base pairs are interpreted and do various things like copy a base, cut a strand etc, loop, etc. It appears to be Turing complete. 14:07:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:07:34 hoogsteen is a ridiculous name, though 14:08:00 impomatic: yes it's described in GEB. i once considered writing a wiki article on it 14:08:32 but it's not real? 14:08:33 I think he wrote a bit about it in Goedel, Escher, Bach. I read about it in the January 1982 issue of Practical Computing which has a HDNA interpreter written in Basic. 14:08:49 i mean real DNA has plenty of stuff about alternative splicing, god knows 14:08:55 also pseudoknots which are pretty wack 14:08:58 But does it have a basic interpreter written in HDNA 14:09:13 Quintopia: it's definitely esoteric. You should add it to the wiki :-) 14:09:16 "so there's NP completeness, at least" 14:09:44 impomatic: oh it's not that it's not esoteric that i haven't done it. it's that i'm too lazy. 14:10:22 slereah: this is cute though: http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/File:Insect_swarm_plasmid_by_tinamin1-d4jh31s.jpg 14:10:51 The bee plasmid was pretty weak but I used it a lot 14:10:58 Because it's fucking BEES FROM MY HANDS 14:11:17 That is enough to make a whole game out of 14:11:33 oh and Turing wrote a nice paper about symmetry breaking in devbio, imo read it. 14:12:08 Another one which ought to be on the wiki. The language of Tierra. (I don't mind doing this one, I just need to research it a bit more. I haven't seem Ray naming it anywhere) 14:13:28 is tierra the one that's just code in a large block of memory with program pointers passing over it repeatedly 14:13:46 or is the one with actual moving organisms in 3d space 14:14:04 It's all in code, no actual organisms. 14:15:27 yeah i saw something about the language used in that once. no jumps, right? just reading and writing to addresses 14:18:39 It jumps to a template... 14:19:08 i guess i don't remember it too well 14:19:11 No operands to instructions. You'd have jmpb / nop1 / nop0 / nop1 / something else. 14:19:48 That would jump back to the first template matching the complement of the three nops. 14:22:19 ah. so you can jump, but you can't be sure where you're jumping 14:36:43 Only if the matching templates is in your own code. Otherwise you might jump into another program and run it's code (like a parasite) 14:39:20 -!- mihow has joined. 14:43:34 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:44:03 -!- jix has joined. 14:45:10 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:56:35 -!- Gregor`` has changed nick to Gregor. 15:14:36 Help I need to sort out my life 15:15:44 Like, urgently 15:16:05 Had a room inspection and the result was "We are worried about your health" 15:25:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:30:55 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:36:11 -!- ter2 has joined. 15:46:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:49:21 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:51:05 Taneb: why exactly? Assuming it's messy, just hire a cleaner (or find a girlfriend who's clean / tidy). Assuming it's full of alcohol etc just print off some healthy looking labels to disguise it. 15:51:38 impomatic, evidently there's an oppressive smell 15:53:08 that's... extreme 16:01:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 16:06:14 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:06:29 Anyway, you can imagine my emotional state right now 16:09:50 maybe there's a capitalist swine hiding in there 16:10:10 oerjan, don't think so, wrong smell 16:10:45 and this smell wasn't there when you moved in? 16:11:19 No, the smell is almost certainly my fault 16:11:59 i suppose only you can tell the reason. 16:12:35 Because I normally keep the window closed I don't know how to turn the radiator off 16:12:36 what kind of smell could give such a judgement... 16:12:51 and whether you need to clean or visit a doctor 16:12:55 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:13:34 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:14:26 -!- edwardk_ has joined. 16:15:11 hm maybe you have fungus in the room, i hear that can be awful. 16:16:19 It's a messy smell rather than a nasty smell 16:16:23 It's just a loud messy smell 16:16:56 well the solution is obvious but i would be a hypocrite to say it. 16:17:22 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:17:46 Yes, I know the solution to the primary problem very well 16:18:38 -!- edwardk_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:20:25 In fact, I suspect the majority of the smell comes from one source 16:24:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 16:25:29 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:39:18 which source is that 16:39:38 impomatic: I like that "hire a cleaner" and "find a girlfriend" are alternatives on equal footing 16:39:38 Bedsheets 16:39:40 like, or something 16:42:08 They... I have not done the right thing with my bedsheets. 16:44:42 -!- conehead has joined. 16:52:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:54:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:02:34 [wiki] [[Twocode]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39736 * GermanyBoy * (+4719) Created page with "'''Twocode''' is a [[:Category:Two-dimensional languages|two-dimensional]] [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:GermanyBoy]] in 2014. It mixes two-dimensional '..." 17:03:05 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39737&oldid=39713 * GermanyBoy * (+14) /* T */ 17:03:41 [wiki] [[User:GermanyBoy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39738&oldid=39648 * GermanyBoy * (+14) twocode 17:05:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:15:55 `run echo bin/coins 17:15:56 bin/coins 17:16:00 `run cat bin/coins 17:16:01 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' | rainwords 17:16:03 Then wash your bedsheets 17:16:16 That is the logical thing to do 17:16:43 `run cat bin/rainwords 17:16:44 ​#!/usr/bin/python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w) 17:16:51 `coins 17:16:53 ​anollcoin pheycoin alagirdiminiscoin aubatwaldcoin clearecoin hlietcoin hoto++coin pcoin nestcoin intfcoin grocoin jetzschecoin membecoin sheedcoin stificcoin wudiffelliicketlangcoin brycoin tetcoin con-of-unbcoin truecoin 17:20:10 I read some book where they didn't write "Allah"; they wrote "al-Lah", I don't know if it is supposed to be the same word but it seem like it from the context. Do you know about this to answer it? 17:20:25 Taneb: you can wash them every so often 17:20:36 i don't have more specific advice 17:20:43 wash them when they smell or feel weird or have disconcerting stains 17:20:56 I think not doing what I did would be a good start. 17:21:05 These haven't been off my bed since the end of September :( 17:21:15 I see 17:21:15 What did you did at first? 17:21:20 that is sub-optimal 17:21:25 rustc has a flag that prints out the elapsed time for each compiler pass as they run (some 40 or so of them) 17:21:28 here's what that looks like: https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/acb1df198dbac070263f 17:21:33 You should probably clean it 17:21:34 for building rustc itself 17:22:47 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 17:23:08 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:30:14 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:33:47 -!- mihow has joined. 17:36:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:37:22 zzo38: “al-” is the definite article, “allah” is more literally “the god”. 17:40:22 Taneb: now you have an upper bound of how long you can use the same bedsheets, now wash them and keep them for half as long and see if you pass an inspection 17:40:50 (if you do, take the average, and so on until you have found the maximum acceptable bedsheet age) 17:41:32 this can also be a way to make it fun to switch bedsheets regularly 17:42:15 olsner, I feel like 1 month is possibly too long 17:42:26 9 months is really bad 17:45:56 it depends on how dirty you are and how much of it you rub into the sheets, I think 17:46:56 and on how dusty the room is, and whether you make the bed with a cover or not (so that the dust settles in the sheets), etc 17:47:13 if you wet the bed you may also need to switch more often 17:48:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sleep tight and don't let the bedbugs evolve sapience). 17:56:25 "WebGL 2 is based on what we think will be in OpenGL ES 3, which is the stuff in OpenGL 4" 17:56:28 ;_; 17:56:30 can't they just skip some to make the numbers match up 17:58:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:59:11 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:59:14 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:59:41 They don't want to confuse people. 17:59:46 or just have a single "OpenGL" that includes the ES and Web stuff 18:00:35 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 18:06:02 Melvar: O, OK thanks 18:07:28 when did C get // comments because shouldn't those work 18:07:57 In the year 1999. 18:07:59 god knows why a C program is including an .hpp. C/C++ i guess 18:08:37 (As an extension probably before that, too.) 18:08:40 Do any gcc flags turn that off? -ansi or something maybe? 18:08:54 Well, -ansi is the same as -std=c89 which does not include them. 18:09:00 There's a standard flag 18:09:03 oh, alright then. 18:09:07 -std=whatever or something 18:09:08 dumb compile error. 18:09:10 this would be a good source for fungot http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto 18:09:11 fowl: what's a chatterbot then. no way sir, that i do 18:09:20 no, god. 18:09:36 too soon? 18:09:40 fungot already quotes, what, nixon? that's gross enough already 18:09:40 Bicyclidine: perhaps we should celebrate these days with guys like simon peyton-jones, simon fnord, etc 18:09:52 Good old Simon Fnord. 18:09:59 not really soon so much as that the rodger thing is just gross 18:10:18 the manifesto i mean, by itself, in addition to the shooting 18:10:55 i guess if you wanted fungot to talk like a gross murderer you could go with Industrial Society and Its Future or something 18:10:55 Bicyclidine: later tell riastradh http://tmp.barzilay.org/ r.txt: ( 18:11:25 Bicyclidine, ok :) 18:11:56 or maybe the zodiac codes 18:12:02 fungot what's your support for made-up scripts like 18:12:02 Bicyclidine: what's a respectable typing speed? i'm getting tired. must sleep... hiking trip tomorrow... have a flex question for you 18:12:11 flex oh god 18:13:54 the worst part about the C thing is that the file is the complex.hpp that (re)implements complex arithmetic. it uses no C++ features, other than // comments I guess. 18:14:23 those are in C99 18:15:15 yes, but - hilarity continuing here - this has to be compiled with -ansi, probably because for matlab's ffi, which also complains that my gcc is too new 18:17:10 I wonder if that fnord was marlow 18:18:24 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Class). 18:18:41 olsner: You are correct. You win ten (10) FunPoints. 18:18:48 sweet! 18:19:57 You may redeem your FunPoints for fabulous prizes at THIS FEATURE NOT FINISHED YET. 18:20:23 Bicyclidine: what part of -ansi does it require? 18:20:30 if it relies on somehting that changed in c99 vs c90 (whatever that might be) you could try something like gnu90 to get comments and useful stuff but otherwise c90 18:20:56 well i mean, i just changed the file. 18:30:05 still not sure what the hell "#include /* Added for MS Visual C++ Compatibility 1999 */" is supposed to mean 18:33:13 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:33:40 -!- ter2 has joined. 18:34:14 Bicyclidine: // comments predate C 18:34:31 At least according to the Wikipedia article on BCPL 18:35:33 that's nice 18:41:46 Bicyclidine: Maybe in the compiler he used some stdlib header also included math 18:42:12 without an include barrier, huh 18:42:13 `addquote Bicyclidine: perhaps we should celebrate these days with guys like simon peyton-jones, simon fnord, etc 18:42:14 kmc: srfi-7 doesn't standardize that, so you can't extend arbitrarly your plugin, if you half-ass something but provide the right social cues then you get 4 18:42:15 1200) Bicyclidine: perhaps we should celebrate these days with guys like simon peyton-jones, simon fnord, etc 18:42:26 fungot: I love halfassing social cues 18:42:26 kmc: install-info does exist internally." page 7, under heading 5, evaluation. 18:42:35 if noiseType == 0 randn('seed', 37) <-- chosen by fair die, guaranteed random 18:43:50 "The latter method requires recursion and is computationally very expensive." 18:43:52 -!- mihow has joined. 18:50:18 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:58:35 /* ... */ comments in C are actually a bit somewhat problematic if you want to divide by a value that a variable points to; you would then need a space or parenthses. 18:58:57 imo the lexer hack 18:59:13 you should have spaces around binary operators anyway 19:03:23 The slashes situation is worsened in JS due to the existence of slash-delimited regex literals 19:03:59 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:04:03 except that a valid regex cannot start with a Kleene star 19:04:04 FireFly: That is only if you are commenting out a regex literal though, since a regex doesn't start with /* 19:04:19 the empty string is a valid regex though 19:04:28 which interferes with single-line comments 19:04:34 well, /(?:)/. 19:04:37 Yeah 19:04:56 AFAIK Perl 6 does not allow an empty pattern as well 19:05:09 damn i was about to ask how perl dealt with that since it was no doubt funny 19:05:26 Hm. 19:05:40 I think it's possible to have "//" not trigger a line-comment in JS actully 19:05:59 if you divide a regex literal by something 19:06:06 elseviers puts their impact factors and it is the funniest shit 19:06:25 I don't know why you would want to divide a regex literal by anything, but a regex might end with \// 19:06:36 Oh, that too 19:06:52 -!- ter2 has joined. 19:07:21 > "--" -- "--" 19:07:23 "--" 19:10:01 @t (--0 19:10:02 Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete type v @ ? . 19:10:04 Waaait 19:10:55 :t (--0 19:10:56 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 19:11:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:12:01 @type (--)0 19:12:02 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 19:12:16 @type "hello" -- 19:12:17 [Char] 19:15:10 -- starts a comment btw, hth 19:15:36 Yeah, took me too long to realise 19:17:11 > let (+)--+--(-) = 42 in (-)--+--(+)--but not always 19:17:13 42 19:17:37 > let 2 --++ 2 = 5 in 2 --++ 2 19:17:38 5 19:17:59 (confusingly, ---- does start a comment) 19:18:23 Haskell has some weird corners 19:18:27 I think any sequence of (more than two) -s is a comment? 19:18:39 right 19:19:22 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:19:41 -!- ter2 has joined. 19:20:33 Can you play pot-limit hold'em? How commonly do you know if chess clubs will have poker and other games too instead of only chess? 19:22:45 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:26 how about chess boxing 19:33:23 I am worried that I am one of those people who is "good at maths", and I've never really had to push myself 19:33:33 -!- ter2 has changed nick to tertu. 19:33:44 And now I don't know how to learn 19:37:06 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 19:37:14 -!- spiette has joined. 19:39:06 hell yea impostor syndrome 19:39:54 could be 19:40:03 I don’t think it’s impostor syndrome he’s describing … 19:41:51 eh, close. 19:42:26 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:43:03 that would depend on a bunch of information you don't have 19:43:15 it's a valid concern and I don't want to dismiss it as a delusion 19:48:42 you could get a really hard math book. i was "good at math" and i got a bunch of books that i can't read through and just kind of look at sometimes, slowly getting a bit better 19:54:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:59:45 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:00:20 -!- mihow has joined. 20:05:40 Bicyclidine, this is probably separate from my imposter syndrome 20:08:18 if you had it excessively easy before, it makes sense if you're lazy now 20:14:21 Bicyclidine, any you'd recommend? 20:15:14 you read taocp? 20:15:19 Not yet! 20:15:29 well, there you go then 20:15:33 But it's expeeeensiiiiive 20:15:35 make sure you (fail to) do the exercises 20:15:38 aren't you in school? 20:15:47 ... 20:15:48 I had a dream last night I found a copy of TAOCP at a used bookstore for $10 20:15:52 But it's raaaaaaining 20:15:57 that's sick mcpherrin, sick 20:16:26 Taneb: http://www.math.upenn.edu/~wilf/AeqB.html this one's free for your computer. there is no escape. 20:16:29 Too bad it's only a dream :p 20:17:55 I ought to get a copy of Euclid's Elements 20:18:47 honestly i think reading classics is overrated 20:19:10 their methods and culture are just so different from modern math 20:19:11 Even if it is just as a bookshelf decoration 20:19:20 well, that's what taocp is for, too 20:19:20 They sold extra copies of SICP at the university bookstore (after our Introduction to Programming course switched from Scheme to Java or Python or something) for something like 5 EUR. 20:19:28 Some people bought lots, to give away to people. 20:19:49 Taneb: also, you can get books really cheap on amazon, like five bucks USD (so probably a pound cos our economy's shit), such as Counterexamples in Topology 20:20:01 which, iirc, was recommended by some esolang guy? cpresseY? 20:20:22 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris_Pressey#Esoteric_Reading_List.21 yeah 20:20:43 hm i thought that list had better stuff 20:21:10 stephen "alpha" wolfram, lol 20:21:32 other than that there's like, that book on kolmogorov complexity that uses the taocp answer system 20:21:52 or like, you like haskell probably, so one or two of pierce's books i guess 20:23:12 Types and Programming Languages costs £50 :( 20:24:27 yeah they're all pretty expensive 20:25:06 maybe get some cheapish ones... dover has a bunch of old (like, 60s?) good texts, like Introductory Real Analysis by Kolmogorov, for like ten bucks 20:25:30 the cheapness because they're not hardcover :P 20:26:52 i mean maybe you odn't give a shit about real analysis though, in which case you could just find a good used bookstore, or wnader through your university library 20:27:10 My university does have a library, hmm 20:27:22 have you ever wanted three hundred years of research on generalized continued fractions? ~it's in the library~ 20:27:45 i mean you go like, york, right? it's not some puny community college, and even those are usually pretty good 20:27:51 I might wander in after my grand beginning-of-June adventure 20:28:07 So, on the 14th 20:28:22 Maybe the 11th 20:28:34 honestly if i have work or something to do i usually just do it in the library, and goof off by reading books instead of by reading the internet 20:29:52 Probably a good idea 20:29:55 Where are you? 20:30:03 what, my school? 20:30:11 Yeah 20:30:21 just a state school. Washington State University 20:30:28 presently i am sitting here putting off reading about ears 20:30:41 :) 20:30:48 imo p. good state 20:31:21 but, the engineering library is six stories, and has everything from Bifurcation Theory to The Soviet Anti-Plague System 20:31:41 We only have the one library 20:31:45 six stories? that's not a v. big library 20:31:49 Except for a number of tiny libraries dotted about 20:31:55 Which I have never seen 20:31:58 are they at least split across six books 20:32:13 Despite both the maths and computer science departments having a tiny library 20:32:18 well, we have this six story library, and there's the main library that's two buildings with like three floors (but it's more history, social sorta stuff), and a veterinary library that's a few rooms 20:32:37 oh, and are you a math student? i don't know how research works in math but you might try that 20:33:07 Maths and Computer Science 20:33:13 the library at this campus is small by comparison, it has World of Warcraft Programming Second Edition 20:33:42 well i don't know how that works but you might try looking at faculty profiles and asking somebody that seems interesting for work 20:33:51 if you want to be a mathematologist, anyway, i don't know 20:34:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:34:58 Right, I've found the Computer Science library on Google Maps 20:35:00 in my experience uni professors are more than willing to talk at somebody who displays any interest, even if they're a dirty undergrad 20:35:07 I've told this before, but there was a maths journal on the "recent issues" table at the university library, and it had a fascinating picture in the inner side of the cover, and it was titled: "Fig. 1: A fascinating picture." 20:35:17 good 20:35:19 s/titled/captioned/ 20:36:05 I think it was some sort of a graph. 20:39:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 20:39:56 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:40:58 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 20:43:06 -!- vyv has joined. 20:45:08 so true. "People get unhappy when a computer blinks its lights for" 20:45:09 a while and then announces a result, if people cannot easily check the truth of the 20:45:12 result for themselves. 20:46:31 just have it make sounds instead 20:47:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:49:14 huh, I never check the results 20:50:22 olsner: the audience is mathematicians. they prefer humanly checkable proofs. see also http://star.psy.ohio-state.edu/coglab/Miracle.html 20:53:48 (Requiring too much work to check is also an issue, as can be seen in the criticism of the Appel & Haaken proof of the four color theorem, which was partly justified.) 20:54:56 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 20:54:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:55:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:56:40 -!- ais523_ has joined. 21:01:18 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:01:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:03:48 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 21:04:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:05:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:07:15 -!- Bike has joined. 21:15:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:23:39 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:26:19 huh, someone proved a false statement in Agda (presumably due to a compiler bug): https://proofmarket.org/problem/viewa/58 21:26:29 don't really know enough Agda to follow the proof, though 21:27:05 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:33:42 working with a bunch of PL nerds is so much fun 21:36:54 ais523_, #agda has "We last proved false on " in the topic 21:37:03 Currently 11th of May 21:37:29 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 21:37:30 nwat 21:37:34 *neat 21:37:43 `ddate 21:37:44 Today is Pungenday, the 7th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3180 21:37:45 writing sound type systems is hard 21:37:58 indeed 21:38:00 `sdate 21:38:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sdate: not found 21:38:07 oh. 21:38:10 is it just me or is pow(x,2) weird code 21:39:10 I think somebody is working on a proof of soundness for Rust this summer 21:39:13 non-mechanized :/ 21:39:48 I also wrote a implementation of that ddate in ifMUD too, although the output format is a bit different: "Today is Pungenday, Confusion 7, YOLD 3180." Still, I am glad that these two dates are in agreement! 21:40:19 ais523_, the weird bit in that is the definition of eq 21:40:35 Which asserts that foo and bar are different 21:41:00 But they are both values of the unit type defined in slightly different ways 21:41:12 top is the unit, right? 21:41:15 Yes 21:41:56 hmm... ((), 1), ((), ()) is different from ((), 0), ((), ()) in most programming languages 21:42:12 yeah but it's taking the third 21:42:22 Yes, but the first element of the second element of those two tuples are the same in most programming languages 21:42:27 (_, 1), ([this one], _) 21:42:46 so i guess the difference between 0 and 1 spreads somehow. 21:43:11 ais523_: Are they the people who wrote Agda they payment in case of the bug like Knuth does with TeX and METAFONT, or is it different? 21:43:45 zzo38: it's a bit different; the Agda devs don't pay for things like that, but the link in question indicates that someone did pay for the proof, anonymously 21:45:38 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:46:05 I think how the HOPE conference accepts payment by bitcoins too 21:51:23 That proof does not have any = line for eq; is that wrong? 21:51:54 zzo38, no, the "eq ()" means "There are no cases to match against" 21:52:10 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:52:20 Taneb: O, OK 21:52:40 it turns a proof that foo = bar into bottom? 21:53:03 Yes, because the type checker thinks foo != bar 21:53:10 How do you know that there are no cases to match against? How does the equivalence sign work anyways? 21:53:20 I am not sure 21:53:34 zzo38: well the return type is bottom so it's not like it could return anything 21:58:12 -!- mihow has joined. 22:00:33 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:10:20 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:10:36 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 22:16:36 ( :doc (=) 22:16:36 Data type = : ({A0} : Type) -> ({B0} : Type) -> A -> B -> Type 22:16:36 The propositional equality type. A proof that x = y. 22:16:36 To use such a proof, pattern-match on it, and the two equal things will then need to be the same pattern. 22:16:36 Note: Idris's equality type is heterogeneous, which means that it is possible to state equalities between values of potentially different types. This is 22:16:36 sometimes referred to in the literature as "John Major" equality.↵… 22:19:18 Why John Major 22:19:40 “It is now time to reveal the definition of ≃, the ‘John Major’ equality relation. (Footnote 2: John Major was the last ever leader of the Conservative Party to be Prime Minister (1990 to 1997) of the United Kingdom, in case he has slipped your mind.) John Major’s ‘classless society’ widened people’s aspirations to equality, but also the gap between rich and poor. After all, aspiring to be equal to others than oneself is the ... 22:19:46 ... politics of envy. In much the same way, ≃ forms equations between members of any type, but they cannot be treated as equals (ie substituted) unless they are of the same type. Just as before, each thing is only equal to itself.” 22:19:51 (conor mcbride) 22:20:21 Oooh 22:21:04 elliott, i don't get the 'last ever' part 22:21:14 Phantom_Hoover, I'd presume it's an old quote 22:21:16 Phantom_Hoover: he was an optimist at the time 22:21:23 haha 22:22:14 i thought it was some kind of pedantic joke, like with labour/new labour 22:22:39 this is the view from the left guy, right? some kind of "Left ist" 22:22:46 yeah, same guy 22:23:49 whoa, I never ended up reading /The view from the left/. :-( 22:24:41 well i didn't either 22:24:45 so ha 22:25:04 But I was going to. 22:25:22 well, so was i, elliott linked it to me 22:25:35 i'm not in the right mindset to find mcbride's jokes funny, tho :/ 22:28:58 I have used a kind of equality that works between different types, in Haskell, by using (Eq, Typeable) 22:31:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:31:31 Do you know much about LALR(1) parsing? 22:34:06 > :doc refl 22:34:07 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 22:34:16 ( :doc refl 22:34:16 refl : x = x 22:34:16 A proof that x in fact equals x. To construct this, you must have already shown that both sides are in fact equal. 22:34:16 Arguments: 22:34:16 (implicit) {A0} : Type -- the type at which the equality is proven 22:34:16 (implicit) {x0} : A -- the element shown to be equal to itself. 22:34:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:34:53 this shit is deep 22:35:47 ( :t vectNilRightNeutral 22:35:47 Prelude.Vect.vectNilRightNeutral : (xs : Vect n a) -> xs ++ [] = xs 22:36:09 ↑ use of heterogeneous equality 22:37:10 it's funny how i keep thinking of things in terms of taking and returning arguments, when that's clearly fucking hopeless 22:38:03 Bicyclidine: ? 22:38:31 basically i have no idea what any of this means 22:38:58 ( :t \n,a, xs : Vect n a => xs ++ [] 22:38:58 \n => \a => \xs => xs ++ [] : (n : Nat) -> (a : Type) -> Vect n a -> Vect (n + 0) a 22:40:51 The left side of the equals is a Vect (n + 0) a, the right side is a Vect n a, which don’t immediately unify (you can prove they’re equal though), so if the equality were homogeneous, you’d have to rewrite one side within the type of vectNilRightNeutral to state the equality. 22:40:51 Bicyclidine: think of it as a forall 22:43:20 "taking and returning arguments" is a good way to think about it. 22:43:44 > :t the 22:43:45 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 22:43:49 ( :t the 22:43:49 Prelude.Basics.the : (a : Type) -> a -> a 22:44:17 * Melvar kicks self for mixing up his prefixes for the second time. 22:44:51 odd name for id 22:45:10 ( the Nat 0 22:45:11 0 : Nat 22:45:18 ( the Int 0 22:45:18 0 : Int 22:45:35 are brackets for implicit parameters then 22:46:07 No, braces are. 22:46:29 Why is Bison parser generator so much larger (when compressed) than Lemon parser generator (when uncompressed)? 22:46:53 But anyway, the is the way to do type annotations in idris. 22:46:56 ( :t id 22:46:57 Prelude.Basics.id : a -> a 22:46:57 Control.Category.id : Category cat => cat a a 22:46:57 oh duh, the brackets are only there to associate a : Type 22:47:11 Melvar, i see 22:47:26 id is the same, but with an implicit argument (hence the a is underlined). 22:47:32 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:48:30 https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/s480x480/282298_10150894076356344_561739999_n.jpg 22:48:45 -!- mihow has joined. 22:50:37 o_O https://github.com/mozilla/rust/blob/master/src/librustc/middle/ty.rs#L1091-L1142 22:51:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:53:00 -!- aretecode has joined. 22:53:08 kmc: that should not come as a surprise after seeing lines 240 to 259. 22:53:13 err 359 22:53:50 http://www.babylonjs.com/ not so sure about the library, but I love these demos 22:54:03 I don't know why people are saying it's a Microsoft clone of Three.JS 22:54:19 pub trait_impls: RefCell>>>> 22:54:23 that's quite the type 22:56:50 What is it? 22:57:20 what's the Rc<> thing? 22:57:20 jesus god kmc what is that 22:57:33 actually i don't want to know probably 22:57:34 int-e: Rc is a reference counted T 22:57:37 Rc is a refcounted box containing T 22:57:48 even if T isn't cloneable, you can clone Rc; you get another pointer to the same underlying object 22:57:53 it's much like std::shared_ptr in C++ 22:58:12 RefCell is "interior mutability"; it basically moves Rust's alias checking to runtime 22:58:14 You can clone, but can you send? (I'd hope not... I think?) 22:58:20 Sgeo: nope, but you can send Arc 22:58:23 ("atomic reference counting") 22:58:38 if you have a no-mutation reference to an object, you can still mutate stuff inside a RefCell 22:58:49 i.e. you can go from &RefCell to &mut T, approximately 22:59:24 doing so sets a flag at runtime saying "this thing is borrowed mutably", and what it gives you is actually a smart pointer which un-sets that flag on destruction 22:59:30 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:59:44 if the value has already been borrowed, it's a task failure 23:00:07 DefId and DefIdMap are rustc internal types for definitions and maps keyed on definitions 23:00:22 Why does that need a special Map? 23:00:38 well it's a typedef: http://doc.rust-lang.org/rustc/util/nodemap/type.DefIdMap.html 23:00:58 and FnvHashMap is another typedef for a standard collections::hashmap::HashMap 23:01:29 "FnvHasher: ... A speedy hash algorithm for node ids and def ids. The hashmap in libcollections by default uses SipHash which isn't quite as speedy as we want. In the compiler we're not really worried about DOS attempts, so we just default to a non-cryptographic hash." 23:02:26 blazing speed 23:03:08 whoa, TIL rust has default type parameters 23:03:12 -!- madbr has joined. 23:03:16 pub struct HashMap { ... 23:03:40 kmc: haha yeah they're pretty shiny 23:04:02 Hashmap was the first user, and I'd bet $1 still the only major one :p 23:04:13 Is this how a LALR(1) parser is supposed to work? list(A) ::= beginlist(B) listitems RBRACKET. { A=doc->group; doc->group=B; } beginlist(A) ::= LBRACKET. { A=doc->group; doc->group=zcdsf_value_empty_list(0); } 23:04:13 (allocators were/are going to do the same 23:04:36 I don't quite understand it if it is OK or not 23:05:15 in my progrmaming language " will be the ditto operator, it refers to the operator or word above it 23:05:36 fowl: immediately above, as in line-column wise? 23:05:53 yes 23:05:59 nice :) 23:06:08 kmc: How does a Hasher work independently of the key type? 23:06:19 something like a default initialization would be pretty great for that initializer of doom 23:06:33 Melvar: The key type implements a trait 23:06:50 Can you define hash functions for your own types? 23:06:59 It just sees a stream of bytes 23:07:08 i guess that works :V 23:07:29 mcpherrin: And this is not noted on the type declaration, or is kmc’s above incorrect? 23:07:34 assuming you don't need other equality, i guess 23:08:44 Melvar: the Hashmap itself doesn't care, just the hasher 23:10:16 The traits implemented on the HashMap do, though 23:10:40 impl, V, S, H: Hasher> HashMap 23:11:22 well that's not a trait for HashMap, it's just the plain non-trait methods of HashMap, but otherwise yeah 23:12:04 yeah I just copied the first relevant line from rustdoc:P 23:12:07 :( 23:12:07 was really looking for 23:12:08 impl, V, S, H: Hasher> MutableMap for HashMap 23:12:08 Ah, so the constraint is not on the data structure, but on the functions. Thank you. 23:12:22 I don't think we even support constraints on data structures? 23:12:35 I am not sure 23:12:50 kmc: yeah, you can 23:12:52 I am not very good at person 23:13:09 person are hard 23:13:26 I feel that that should have a winky face somewhere 23:13:47 ( :t ShowGlue 23:13:47 BotPrelude.ShowGlue : a -> String => Show a 23:13:47 kmc: Uh, apparently not trait bounds though :P 23:13:57 * mcpherrin had never tried before just now 23:13:59 mcpherrin: what other kind of constraints are there? 23:14:04 well lifetimes :P 23:14:06 Taneb: what aspect(s)? 23:14:23 you mean like struct Foo { ... } ? 23:14:27 yeah 23:14:33 weird 23:14:39 kmc, currently, putting bedsheets back on beds 23:14:40 'static is the only lifetime which can be used that way, right? 23:14:45 I think so 23:14:50 I still don't totally undersand what it means 23:15:04 I don't know if I've ever seen a struct templated that way 23:15:09 oh no is rust continuing the proud tradition of static being wonky as hell 23:15:12 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:15:35 Bicyclidine: 'static isn't C's whatever-we-want-today keyword :-) 23:15:40 good, good 23:15:49 It's the lifetime of data that lives "forever" 23:15:57 Most commonly string literals 23:16:09 or globals. 23:16:10 oh so like the kind of thing that is serialized into a binary, ok. 23:16:19 mutable? 23:16:35 you can have static mutable data, but it's unsafe 23:16:40 I think idris has a static keyword somehow … it indicates that some argument must be fully known at compile time I think. 23:16:42 because it gives you task-shared mutability 23:16:47 right, right 23:16:51 so you can only use it in the unsafe dialect 23:16:54 static mut foo looks funny to me 23:16:58 but there it is 23:17:04 just wondering since you said globals 23:17:08 it's fine, it's just like "let mut" 23:17:08 yeah 23:17:24 kmc: were you around for the great "what to call static" debates? 23:17:39 it's stored in the dynamic library binary, so, call it dynamic 23:18:12 a 'static bound on a type asserts that all refs in the type have static lifetime, I think, but I'm not sure 23:18:49 mcpherrin: no 23:18:52 Bicyclidine: :3 23:19:58 std::cell defines Cell and RefCell and Ref and RefMut B| 23:20:04 I know what they all need, but the naming is a bit confusing 23:20:29 what they all mean* 23:20:48 yell dead cell 23:22:58 kmc: well it was a primo bikeshed 23:23:25 "`static mut` looks weird" was a common opinion 23:28:49 "life is weird, get used to it" 23:29:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:32:07 more C questions: if i calloc an array of doubles, does the zero memory have to equal numeric zero? 23:33:02 The zero memory corresponds to integer zero. I have not had problems using it as floating point, though. 23:33:41 Bicyclidine: yes 23:33:42 ieee floats are 23:33:50 aight 23:34:39 this is because of the (useful/planned) coincidence that double(+0.0f) has the same representation as a uint64_t(0) 23:34:52 calloc doesn't know anything about floats/doubles 23:35:03 sure, that's why i'm asking 23:35:29 i'm imagining the ol' fuckyoutron 8000 having a 0.0f not made of zero bytes 23:35:35 `quote kmc.*nickel 23:35:36 847) What is portable way of load/save floating points in files, using a C code? #ifndef __STDC_IEC_559__ #error Here's a nickel, kid. Buy a real computer. #endif 23:36:00 does C require IEEE? 23:36:02 i mean, i don't know the ins and outs of floats. 23:36:05 also that. 23:36:14 I think this might be one of the things you could DS9k 23:36:29 ds9k, that's the term 23:36:32 well, fuckyoutron is fine 23:37:04 this code is bullshit conformance-wise so i'm asking out of curiosity more than anything :P 23:38:55 the boring part about actually building a ds9k is that no existing software would build and work on it 23:39:13 except OpenSSL 23:39:14 olsner: I doubt it; some software may work. 23:39:51 Also, some software might compile but fail to run properly, while others will result in compile errors since the program contains things to make the compiler to check. 23:40:52 I doubt OpenSSL is actually valid enough C, it rather has a wide collection of differently non-conformant hacks, and would need a completely new set to work on ds9k 23:41:31 For example you use the negative-array-size trick. 23:43:37 So many abstractions in the WebGL world 23:43:56 tQuery = abstraction of ThreeJS = abstraction of abstraction of WebGL 23:45:01 Bike: the fuckyoutron8k could be the budget model of the ds9k 23:45:47 *Bicyclidine 23:45:58 i don't know why i've never seen static variables used for defining a filter, that i can remember... outside of that one OS i guess 23:46:54 I have used negative-array-size trick, which is like: struct { char unused[sizeof(long)>=sizeof(void*)?1:-5]; } and similar things like that. 23:46:57 http://shitgonutssays.tumblr.com/ 23:47:14 A variable of this structure type is not declared, therefore don't waste memory. 23:47:36 Thanks for your meaningless contribution 23:47:53 How common is stuff like this? 23:48:22 oh hey the finalizer thing 23:48:58 pike seems like kind of an ass from this, o well 23:49:59 just a little ;_; 23:50:38 that childish things quote was so much improved by lewis 23:52:08 I am also not very good at booking train tickets 23:53:41 i have lost an awful lot of money to my own stupidity in and around trains 23:53:42 this code is rapidly making me think C is not good for writing signal processing in 23:54:19 i don't know what could possess something to define a basic looking linear filter on the last few intermediates, and then allocating storage for intermediates over the entire input signal 23:54:29 possess someone*, i imagine this isn't computer generator 23:54:31 ed 23:54:36 i'm just going to be dumb today 2014-06-03: 00:03:10 Taneb: where are you going? 00:03:28 Taneb: also would you like to join #trains 00:04:07 kmc, I'm going back and forth between Hexham and York 00:04:34 And I feel like I would be out of place in #trains 00:04:59 Taneb: it's just more of me and kmc having the same conversations about rust :P 00:05:19 I'LL JOIN THE CHANNEL ON TRIAL 00:08:07 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:08:12 mcpherrin: I think we should try not to talk about Rust so much there 00:08:15 It's also a channel on t'rail 00:08:31 (I am in Yorkshire, after all) 00:10:20 i've been thinking about complexity vs. lines of code 00:10:24 sometimes more code is less complex 00:10:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:10:41 200 lines where you only need to understand 10 lines to make a single change, vs 100 lines where you need to understand it all 00:11:01 this is the supposed benefit of all the AbstractSingletonFactoryProxyBean verbosity I guess 00:11:20 but they take it way too far in Java because the language doesn't have the power to define /concise/ abstractions 00:11:32 but still, concise abstractions are more code than no abstraction at all 00:11:48 (in many cases) 00:13:44 kmc: yeah I'm pretty bad at randomly picking channels to talk about things in 00:14:43 (and not noticing when people are annoyed on IRC; hard to emotions with words) 00:16:53 how hard would it be to make a language with zero aliasing, without being functional like haskel 00:17:10 madbr: Fortran? 00:17:15 hm 00:17:29 Or some subset of Rust 00:17:57 I'm jungling with some design wher everything is copy-on-write 00:18:09 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:19:01 but then the problem is if you did something like, say, call some opengl function way down deep the call tree, then every level needs to have the whole opengl context as an argument 00:19:02 not good 00:20:53 you'd need some way to have it as an argument but hide it 00:21:35 like the compiler figures out your function down the call tree needs the opengl context and adds it as a hidden argument to all the call tree levels in between 00:27:49 alias kills 00:28:04 alias is why the fastest CPU is still a souped up P2 00:28:46 I do not entirely understand how and why. 00:28:50 alias is why x86 was never left in the dust because other architecture never got faster than x86 00:29:01 ok let me explain 00:29:15 once you pass the first pass of C++ compilation, your program is in SSA form 00:29:24 ie every varaible is assigned once 00:29:33 I know LLVM, which is using SSA form 00:29:50 you'd want the compiler to be able to do nice optimizations like auto-vectorization 00:30:04 kmc, help I have drawn someone to #trains 00:30:22 probably 00:30:42 most of the time this is impossible because your loop to be optimized is going to do memory reading/writing 00:31:11 due to the fact that in C++ pointers can point essentially everywhere, it's impossible to change the order of memory reads and writes 00:31:56 which means that even if you unroll the loop to be optimized you can't group your math operations together and do SIMD because those math operations can't be moved 00:32:10 because they are sandwitched between unmovable memory operations 00:32:28 that means also that all your memory operations cannot be grouped together and turned into SIMD 00:32:40 In some cases you can tell what a pointer is not pointing to, though. 00:32:58 which means that no matter what you do your code is going to contain a ton of individual 32bit loads and stores 00:32:59 (Even if you don't know what it is pointing to) 00:34:04 if you consider that a L1 cache can do 1 operation per cycle (or possibly 2 in recent intel cpus) that means if your code is 33% memory loads then you can never do more than 3 operations per cycle 00:34:09 fn check_decl(&mut self, cx: &Context, d: &ast::Decl) { cx.span_lint(d.span, "This declaration contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm"); } 00:34:28 so a gpu-style massively parallel CPU is impossible 00:34:43 to make it possible you need to be able to group memory loads/stores 00:34:54 and do SIMD 00:35:10 Then make the command in the programming language, to group memory loads/stores. 00:35:28 kmc: is it the &'s that cause cancer 00:35:47 but if you make an architecture like that the C++ can't compile code that's going to go faster than x86 because it can't group loads/stores 00:35:52 zzo38 : already exists 00:35:58 SSE intrinsics 00:36:06 And to explicitly specify what a pointer doesn't point to 00:36:07 problem: very few people use them 00:36:26 Will SSE intrinsics work on non-SSE computers? 00:36:42 non-SSE computers are very rare by now 00:36:50 everything that's x64 has SSE2 00:37:42 But you might want to run a program on non-SSE computers, especially if someone also make up the new one like that 00:38:40 zzo38 : then you can never go faster than dumb C++ code compiled by MSVC and running on a Pentium2 derivative 00:38:43 Intel wins 00:39:47 madbr: did you know there's apparently a roughly accurate microarchitectural simulator for Core? http://www.marss86.org/~marss86/index.php/Home 00:40:17 they have a list of the uops they've discovered 00:40:24 crazy 00:40:25 You don't have to necessarily using C++ then anyways. It could be programming language that doesn't require SSE intrinsics, it could do differently, in a way compatible with any computer. 00:40:31 woah marss86 looks super neato 00:40:47 pcwalton told me it's within 5-10% of real instruction timings 00:40:56 zzo38 : that's why I'm talking about designing a language with no aliasing 00:41:20 wait wait, so the x86 risc core thingie? 00:41:20 Such as make a block that hint to the compiler that it doesn't matter what order they are in. Such optimization hint can help even with processor that don't do any such thing. 00:41:31 Bike: roughly yeah 00:41:39 coooool 00:41:40 zzo38 : if your language has aliasing it essentially turns into C++ and then you can't go faster than C++ code compiled on MSVC runnning on a Pentium2 derivative, intel wins, microsoft wins 00:41:59 madbr: hm, you could easily add a lint to Rust which forbids immutable & pointers, at which point you'd have approximately no aliasing 00:42:09 of course it would break all existing code including the whole stdlib 00:42:14 note to self: throw "restrict" on everything and see what happens 00:42:25 #define int int restrict 00:42:26 kmc : yeah exactly 00:42:33 You might want aliasing though, but it can help to be able to specify, which things a pointer doesn't point to. 00:42:59 it's hard to have aliasing "just somewhere" 00:43:11 madbr: Microsoft isn't the only C++ compiler. There is also GCC and clang. And there is also other programming languages than C++, such as C and Forth. 00:43:15 madbr: C and Rust both have it, though 00:43:23 actually this might actually be relevant, since i'm doing dsp... though with no realtime restrictions 00:43:46 also not overwriting earlier parts of the signal but who knows how smart gcc is i guess 00:43:59 atm the best way to do it is SSE intrinsics 00:44:11 do what 00:44:12 x86 only but it works on GCC and MSVC 00:44:18 fast DSP code 00:44:32 oh. hell i fi know. i just grabbed a book on DSp since i know basically nothing about it 00:44:35 madbr: That's too bad if you cannot do it in a system-independent way. That is why it is never used. 00:44:46 also everything is nonlinear, dunno if sse cares about that 00:44:56 nonlinear? 00:45:01 If you want a x86 program you can also write in x86 assembly language and take advantage of every single instruction even though the C compiler won't do. 00:45:18 zzo38 : there's no point 00:45:30 It is why I suggest other ways to do it 00:45:36 zzo38 : essentially the only opcodes that will probably give you a gain is SSE operations 00:46:00 madbr: I doubt it 00:46:47 zzo38 : everything else, except a few special cases (like bit reverse or count-leading-bits opcodes) you're not going to gain anything over C++ 00:47:25 Bit reverse? 00:47:52 in fact if it's not number crunching code your chances of winning anything are slim because it's probably going to be bottlenecked by the latency level of some level of cache 00:48:06 I know GCC has builtins for count-leading-bits, and Black-C has a compiler hint to specify that a given function implements count-leading-bits (resulting in undefined behavior if the function does not, in fact, implement that) 00:48:30 zzo38 : yeah that's why those intrinsics exist 00:48:40 nonlinear? <-- i dunno, i say "nonlinear" and everyone's liek "shit that's hard" 00:49:00 nonlinear in what way? 00:49:01 And what about, BCD arithmetic? Sometimes I want to use it. 00:49:23 i dunno 00:49:26 just no lines in this shit 00:49:33 ???? 00:50:00 zzo38 : heh, I kinda wonder 00:50:24 i started today, ok, gimme some slack 00:50:34 if you compare the speed of code that uses BCD opcodes vs code that doesn't, which one is going to be faster? 00:52:15 bitcoin looks to still be in a growth period, 50% up in the last month (mostly last 14 days) 00:52:26 you'd think the bcd opcodes would help but sometimes those opcodes are implemented in some super slow way 00:52:28 WebRTC is poorly named, it has uses other than real-time communication 00:52:53 or even like some ~5 cycle per operation way that's still going to lose to some fast table lookup 00:53:19 Sgeo: well WebRTC is really the name of the project/goal, and encapsulates teh tech needed to get that 00:53:29 oerjan: nice $666 buy price on coinbase 00:53:42 [revelations quote] 00:53:51 the blockchain: tool of the antichrist 00:54:02 zzo38 : actually maybe you should check if there are some intrinsics for that 00:54:47 or get some ibm clunker server that has, like, hardware decimal floating point (which exists! - unfortunately) 00:55:02 also, note to transhuman dorks: sejnowski thinks we might be able to record a million (whoa) neurons simultaneously by 2030. get hype!! 00:56:14 -!- tertu has joined. 00:58:05 Goodnight 00:58:26 Bike: well millionfold increase is just 20 doublings with a moore's law thing going 00:58:46 madbr: I don't know, sorry 00:58:59 lol cell recordings arne't photolithography 00:59:30 Bike: i understand genome sequencing has a pretty good growth rate, so it's not _just_ electronics... 00:59:38 I tried to make these and other improvement in the Black-C specification, which allows you to give a hint to use decimal arithmetic for a specified variable; if that is not possible, the hint is ignored without any warning or error message. 00:59:57 wow that was supposed to be "ain't", what the hell did i type 01:00:51 zzo38 : it's possible, it's just... hard to justify the development time 01:01:01 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/DNA_Sequencing_Cost_per_Genome_Over_Time.jpg lol 01:01:39 i guess the dive is where they gave up on sanger 01:02:00 madbr: If a C compiler supports the syntax of Black-C attributes, even if it ignores all of them, then it will still work, just not as well as if it can understand some of them too. 01:02:43 what's sanger 01:03:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanger_sequencing the original method basically 01:06:11 But programs can also be written for other computer anyways, such as for Nintendo Family Computer; it is still done and I do it too. Therefore it can run on an actual hardware (or clone) or on an emulator. It is a much slower computer, but it works without worrying about SSE or about differences between computers 01:07:06 wtf is with that external links section 01:08:10 I have read that the reason Revelation says 666 is the number of beast is because it is Nero's name in Hebrew letters converted into their numerical values. I do not know if this is true or not, but what the number is meaning depend on context anyways. Mixing contexts of numbers that don't go together is called numerology, isn't it? 01:08:24 zzo38 : yeah 01:08:50 irl most architectures are becoming more or less the same now 01:08:57 due to out of order crazyness 01:09:17 x86, mips, arm, power, various other riscs... 01:09:41 if 68000 was still around it would end up in cpus that look like nowadays cpus too 01:10:02 Um. 01:10:06 Well, if I make the computer, it has no out of order execution or implicit caching or implicit pipeline stalls or other thing like that. 01:10:13 Why does Chrome play MIDIs so differently from foobar2000? 01:10:22 Not just midis 01:10:25 Ogg too 01:10:25 sgeo : nothing plays midi the same 01:10:35 zzo38: didn't it turn out to be 616? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_beast#616 01:10:44 sgeoL if ogg is different then one of the programs has a post processing filter 01:10:47 or there is some controversy anyway 01:10:56 Sgeo : like a reverb or something like that 01:11:05 or maybe automatic gain control 01:11:12 zzo38: nero is like a good guess given the time in history but there's not really any evidence whatsoever 01:12:40 zzo38 : the reason why the 6502/65816 architecture and the z80 never made it to the "modern world" is that they can't make a rougly powerful architecture in that category of power 01:12:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:13:00 wtf is with that external links section <-- it happens on science articles 01:13:08 whereas it was possible with the x86 (has 8 registers which is just enough) and the 68k 01:14:11 I think Cube Slam is using some custom MIDI playing thingy 01:14:41 essentially if you're doing a cacheless architecture, your performance is going to be similar no matter the architecture because everything is bottlenecked by the ram anyways 01:14:55 (major problem on the 386 and such) 01:15:57 If you're doing an out of order architecture everything is the same because everything gets remapped to micro-ops anyways 01:16:05 and all your registers are renamed 01:16:14 so x86, arm, power, mips etc become the same 01:16:40 it's really in the "middle band" of cpus that you see a difference 01:17:07 the Pentiums and in-order ARMs and MIPS kind of performance band 01:17:25 Note, some 386 systems had cache. 01:17:34 (external, on the motherboard, but still) 01:18:03 pikhq : but not all of them :o 01:18:09 True. 01:18:18 286 have that problem too 01:19:10 that's why the 386 has some 7 cycle opcodes for really common stuff 01:19:17 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:19:44 you have to load in the opcode and the data from memory so it's not going to be bottlenecked by the 7 cycle execution anyways 01:20:33 kmc: I have read that it depends how the name is transliterated; I also see in some bibles that have a footnote saying that some manuscripts say 616 instead. 01:20:52 maybe it's really 686 01:21:13 the progenitor of all modern x86 01:21:19 madbr: I would also have microcodes reprogrammable at runtime, explicit caching, and BCD arithmetic, in my design. 01:21:39 One of my coworkers was telling me about when he worked on the IBM system 360 01:21:43 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." 01:21:44 The first two are really tricky. 01:21:52 BCD arithmetic is a standard feature of x86. 01:21:52 it's hard to make reprogrammable microcodes woth it 01:21:55 apparently the microcode for the 360 was basically on punchcards 01:22:04 and you could physically swap out parts of it for debug routines 01:22:13 nice 01:22:15 mcpherrin: s/was/is/ 01:22:20 mcpherrin : crazy 01:22:48 mcpherrin: I like that. However, that doesn't allow it to be reprogrammed in software, so it isn't as good as my idea 01:22:51 zzo38 : explicit caching appears from time to time 01:22:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_360_20_TROS.jpg 01:22:55 here's a picture of the microcode 01:23:04 zzo38 : see: nintendo GBA 01:23:16 i have a punchcard. good bookmark. 01:23:27 Technically z/System machines aren't *really* using punchcards, but rather "80 column records" and such, but... 01:23:30 it has 32k of SRAM (fast single cycle 32 bits) and 256k of DRAM (slow 16 bits) 01:23:35 there's a decent chance it's older than i am 01:23:40 but i have GAINED ITS POWER 01:24:18 the name = Intel brand chips, the mark = clones, the number = virtualized 01:24:32 zzo38 : if you're going to have control of the whole system (ie a video game console) then explicit caching is usable 01:24:42 I wish to not overcomplicate it, for one thing. Explicit caching shall be done in microcode RAM, for one thing. 01:24:49 * pikhq hesitates to call that "explicit caching" though... 01:24:53 madbr: Yes, it is designed for a single-tasking system 01:25:02 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:12 zzo38 : it's not a function of single or multi tasking 01:25:14 When John, he saw the numbers he lied / Made up the whole thing, he failed when he tried / To cash in on his cautious new fame / Always the numbers but never the name 01:25:25 The SRAM wasn't used as a cache for anything typically, just as "faster RAM". 01:25:28 -!- tertu has joined. 01:25:41 it's a function of "on a console most of the workload is drawing graphics and mixing sound" 01:25:43 It is also designed for direct access to hardware in nearly all cases 01:26:02 ie most of the cpu usage goes through only a few for(){} loops 01:26:05 Also drawing graphics and mixing sound can be done on a separate unit 01:26:07 Yep. Minimize latency at all costs. 01:26:34 zzo38 : if that's the case then you could just as well use a mips :( 01:26:36 There is a separate microcode RAM (and therefore also a separate cache) for supervisor and user mode. 01:26:59 supervisor is for multi tasking systems no? 01:27:08 *cough*N64*cough* 01:27:13 A few functions (such as disk access) use the BIOS, which is what the supervisor mode is for. 01:27:13 it doesn't really make sense unless you have a memory managing unit 01:28:04 It is for security function so that the BIOS can be overridden by the user with debugging routines and the program running in user mode won't be affected, resulting in maximum compatibility with hardware revisions and other things. 01:28:24 mhm 01:29:00 It also prevent the hard disk files from being mixed up too much 01:29:31 And ensure that a copy of a copy of a copy of a CD or DVD runs the same as the original 01:30:08 FOUNDATIONAL MATHS QUESTION: has anyone defined the naturals as solutions to "f has period T -> f has period x*T" and gone from there 01:30:35 It also allows testing how well the program works in different hardware configurations, which the BIOS will emulate. 01:30:53 So it can be used both for development and for end-user. 01:30:59 mhm 01:31:05 And it allows it to work even if the hard disk physical interface changes. 01:31:21 how will the redefinable microcodes work? 01:31:25 Those are many reasons why to have supervisor mode. 01:31:36 madbr: That I don't quite know yet, but probably some kind of VLIW 01:32:14 hmmmmm 01:32:45 is the goal to be able to use existing code? 01:32:52 ie 6502 code, z80 code etc 01:34:21 -!- ter2 has joined. 01:34:21 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:35:38 madbr: Well, 6502 is slow enough that probably it can be done, and that may be a use of such thing, but mainly the intention is that you can reprogram the microcode for whatever program you are writing and can even have self-modifying microcodes if that would help you. 01:36:47 so essentially you'd come up with some mips-like opcode set for general C++ code 01:37:01 and then some special opcodes for filling the screen and drawing graphics 01:37:05 Bike: i think that's basically a variant of naturals being the free monoid on a single generator 01:37:18 and mixing sound 01:39:06 probably something to read a whole bunch of memory addresses, and then write a whole bunch of memory addresses 01:39:15 plus something to deal efficiently with transparency 01:39:20 -!- tertu3 has joined. 01:39:30 Yes 01:41:28 sound boils down to "load from kinda randomish memory addresses, do something like 3 multiplies, add, load output buffer, add, store to output buffer, increment, repeat" 01:42:17 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:42:20 -!- tertu has joined. 01:44:17 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:45:23 -!- ter2 has joined. 01:45:24 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:54:46 -!- tertu3 has joined. 01:55:00 -!- tertu3 has changed nick to tertu. 01:55:09 reprogrammable microcode? 01:55:15 burroughs small systems? 01:56:57 tertu : kinda wondering how you can make it efficient 01:57:00 it sounds hard 01:57:39 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:57:47 I guess explicit pipelining would do it but then dealing with interrupts will probably be horrible 01:59:04 -!- ter2 has joined. 01:59:05 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:59:27 i don't know how feasible it would be except at very low clock speeds 01:59:57 Is there any way in Linux to see how the physical RAM is laid out? Like, "two sticks of 4 GB" sorta thing. 02:00:38 I'm not sure you could detect the separate sticks 02:00:58 if you had microcode in sram that you could read every cycle 02:01:09 from basically arbitrary positions 02:01:35 ter2 : but then how do you deal with complex operations? 02:01:43 ter2: That was basically like my idea 02:02:02 madbr: Presumably using VLIW? 02:02:02 uh 02:02:10 the same way every microcode architecture does? 02:02:23 you just replace the microcode rom/flash rom with ram 02:02:36 i mean modern x86 chips have replaceable microcode 02:02:53 hm 02:03:19 perhaps you could implement another architecture, but chances are that would not be possible 02:03:29 No, it has both ROM and RAM microcode and you can switch which one you want. Also the microcode is open documented and 100% same per hardware revision/implementation. 02:03:46 I guess you could have opcodes turn into different sets of hardware uops 02:03:48 ter2: It would make it slow anyways if it is possible, but sometimes that doesn't matter if it is slow 02:03:57 but that makes sense for an out of order architecture only 02:04:22 if its in order your uops are going to be more or less defined by your pipeline 02:06:51 maybe implement some messy grid of multiplexers and register files and multipliers and ALUs 02:07:06 and let the implementer figure out how he wants to connect things 02:08:17 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:08:21 Another thing I would have is, no pipeline stalls; each instruction is defined precisely and any valid implementation has to follow exactly how many clock cycles something takes and everything else like that too, including the contents of ROM (which would be in public domain, but trademarked) 02:09:24 okay but you're going to need some special way to spill out the whole pipeline if an interrupt happens 02:09:37 Yes, I certainly did think of that. 02:09:59 probably something like freezing the whole cpu and emptying each pipeline one by one 02:10:14 Yes that was the idea I thought of at first 02:12:25 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:12:35 or banking every pipeline for supervisor mode... and then empting each one of them on context switch anyways 02:14:06 -!- vyv has joined. 02:15:04 zzo38 : how are you going to do it? 02:16:23 I do not entirely know yet; for now mostly it is just the ideas. But I did think of some possible ways that some of it can be done 02:16:39 `coins 02:16:40 ​endejxcoin um-32coin grascecoin p''coin gecrusicacoin deltseacoin harnarcoin befamcoin rmacoin liquecoin excelcoin slasscoin ratifcoin onozontoncoin miccoin dractracoin thersetcoin boolcoin dotcoin ookcoin 02:16:48 Mostly just the things already mentioned 02:21:19 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:22:21 madbr, ter2: have you seen http://inertiawar.com/microcode/ 02:24:02 same microcode format for p4 and core2? :o 02:28:26 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:28:31 Why does the moden keep crashing? 02:28:39 s/moden/modem/ 02:28:45 i do not know 02:29:27 Sometimes it just crashes and tries to restart but never reaches beyond the third step of starting up, unless I unplug and replug it. 02:31:53 I used to have my cable modem plugged in through an X10 outlet thingy connected to an X10 Firecracker so that I could make a cron job power cycle it 02:32:30 http://www.somethingawful.com/fakesa/10x/ 02:33:08 I want to figure out how to put a watchdog timer on it 02:36:14 Ada/CS has a feature which C doesn't have and nor does others I have seen; you can use semicolons in the list of parameters to a function call to cause it to call the function multiple times with different values 02:36:34 o_O 02:36:35 why 02:36:38 Do you know if any other programming language has such a thing? 02:36:44 I hope not 02:37:06 o.O 02:37:22 copumpkin understands 02:37:48 The original reason for it was for the purpose of the Write procedure, but it can be used with any one. 02:37:53 Is there any way in Linux to see how the physical RAM is laid out? Like, "two sticks of 4 GB" sorta thing. <-- dmidecode 02:37:55 I think it is not so bad idea though. 02:38:07 why not 02:38:59 If you want to call the same subroutine many times then it can help a lot 02:40:47 it's basically mapM_, right? 02:40:53 with a slightly funky syntax 02:41:55 I suppose it is like that, although not what I was thinking of 02:54:47 Is learning raw WebGL at least a good way to learn how 3d stuff works in general, even if for practical purposes I would use an abstraction? 02:56:17 I don't know 02:56:28 why not openGL on regular C++? 02:56:48 what about irregular C++ 02:57:23 Because I like Javascript better >.> 02:57:39 Also by learning I mean reading 02:58:19 I feel like Javascript should have been my dream environment, considering how much I've toyed with LSL despite it being worse than Javascript IMO, and liking the Smalltalk environment 02:58:38 Javascript is ... ...pluginy, in a way that C isn't 02:59:23 Well, Synchronet door programs can be written in Javascript, so if you want to write Synchronet door programs then you can do that (although there wouldn't be any use of OpenGL with that) 02:59:42 I'm pretty sure gouging out your own eyes is preferable to C++. :P 02:59:50 C++ is a hot mess 03:00:01 Though, so is Javascript. 03:00:08 Synchronet also allows server-side Javascript programs for webpages too though 03:00:24 JS is just a mess :P 03:00:24 It's a hot mess that's still better than event-system-but-no-closures-lsl 03:00:27 true but 3d code doesn't involve too many of C++'s pitfalls 03:00:38 since it's generally math-y 03:00:47 I've never before seen javascript described as a hot mess. 03:00:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linden_Scripting_Language#Default_LSL_script 03:01:04 Yes, 3D code is where you are crazy if you write C++-that's-not-trivially-transformable-to-C. 03:01:05 I don't really dislike JavaScript much; it is better than PHP at least 03:01:15 that's not really saying much 03:01:18 How do you bring data across event handlers? GLOBAL VARIABLES! 03:01:56 Yeaaaah, Second Life is utterly incompetently designed. 03:02:11 zzo38: Few things are worse than PHP. 03:02:16 And yet I love SL and wrote a bunch of code in it 03:02:22 pikhq : true but it made it to market 03:02:36 whereas the other presumably much better competitors haven't 03:02:37 Well yes. SL is terrible, but there's nothing else that really does what it does around. 03:03:01 CloudParty (dead), MetaPlace (dead and not 3d) 03:03:10 I think Second Life client is license by GPL? Therefore, things wrong with the client program can be fixed at least 03:03:16 ActiveWorlds (if you count external clients running things) 03:03:33 pikhq : does it have anything to do aside from typesex? 03:03:36 zzo38: Yes, the SL client is GPL, and there are third-party SL servers. 03:03:59 CloudParty dying took me by surprise 03:04:09 pikhq: Then you can also use other server if one of them is no good, too. 03:04:13 I was there for the beginning and end of Metaplace, but not for Cloudparty 03:05:30 Therefore, the problem is a bit less bad than it would be if they make a mess of it and don't release the codes for someone to fix. (Not by all that much, but it is a bit. Also you can easily then see how is protocol working, and even write the entirely new one over the same protocol, if that will help.) 03:12:18 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:13:38 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:38:06 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:47:05 RIP Alexander Shulgin 03:47:07 :/ 03:49:06 -!- not^v has joined. 03:50:35 Drugs kill you, QED. 03:51:06 c.c 03:51:37 Being live for too long kill you, QED. 03:52:11 indeed 04:14:24 oh, tikhal right 04:15:19 sheeit, he was born in 25 04:16:09 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:16:49 haha, i looked him up in my library and they don't have the books but they do have a shitload of articles like "Possible Implication of Myristicin as a Psychotropic Substance" 04:18:29 My goal is to win, not to knock out your pokemon. Didn't you know that? 04:22:01 what's your cpu architecture going to be geared towards? 04:22:19 like, what's going to be your limiting factor that everything else is going to be designed from :D 04:32:46 (without cache, probably memory access o_O) 04:34:06 no memory, perfect for finite transduction 04:34:56 what's that 04:35:54 -!- edwardk has joined. 04:37:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_state_transducer 04:37:53 heh 04:38:05 no it presumably has memory 04:38:10 just no cache 04:38:26 except something like 16k on chip but it's explicit 04:38:42 ie it resides in some address range and if you want to use it you have to put stuff 04:38:43 in there 04:41:01 Yes, you have to put stuff in there yourself if you want to use it 04:41:19 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Sorry, I am going to sleep now). 04:45:34 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:46:15 yeah in that case 16 bit opcodes might make sense 04:46:40 (that's why super H had 16bit opcodes despite being a RISC... and why ARM had thumb mode) 04:55:14 `unidecode → 04:55:15 ​[U+2192 RIGHTWARDS ARROW] 05:09:12 * Sgeo thinks it's a bit ironic that a WebGL demo would feature the IE logo 05:25:16 `addquote My goal is to win, not to knock out your pokemon. Didn't you know that? 05:25:18 1201) My goal is to win, not to knock out your pokemon. Didn't you know that? 05:25:23 `quote 05:25:27 1124) sometimes i think fizzie twiddling fungot's knobs behind the scenes shachaf: because he is in the way of eventual development of ai on par with e.g. ( sqrt square double), and the 05:25:32 `quote 05:25:33 991) metar lead to canada, more metar and cows 05:25:39 `quote 05:25:41 32) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that 05:26:16 hi kmc 05:27:55 hichaf 05:28:16 Why do webgl demos consistently have the best graphics I've ever seen? Is it because I always play games that suck graphically? 05:28:30 it's because you touch yourself at night 05:28:32 apparently. 05:30:10 Sgeo: cause they're usually pretty simple, so they can use hella-big models and textures 05:30:38 Bike: you can run a finite state transducer backwards 05:31:23 finite state ductranser 05:31:39 finite state cisducer 05:32:06 fungot: we, alone on earth, have the power to free ourselves from the tyranny of the selfish replicators 05:32:06 kmc: i mean, not walking... around... the a2 has a 1024x768 viewfinder but my a1 has some vga crap :p 05:33:32 finite state (−)-(6aR,10aR)-6,6,9-Trimethyl-3-pentyl-6a,7,8,10a-tetrahydro-6H-benzo[c]chromen-1-ol 05:33:59 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:34:09 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:34:38 ꙮ_ꙮ 05:34:48 i wish i could talk to people i don't know in bars 05:35:10 kmc: I just realized a YOLO function should be an unsafe once fn 05:35:22 why bars 05:35:24 unsafeTalkToStranger 05:37:36 mcpherrin: :D 05:37:57 kmc: my current rustc accepts YOLO as a synonym for unsafe 05:38:25 :D 05:38:28 did you submit an RFC 05:38:30 `coins 05:38:33 request for coins 05:38:38 kmc: haha not yet 05:38:42 HackEgo: … 05:38:48 ​supercoin phabettercoin smithcoin yablcoin redgewallcoin dclynometramiroverseymounumerdiologcoin roncoin faucoin schocoin flariocoin huntcoin prevacoin datercoin yablingcoin fovecoin sbeecoin hancoin comensifcoin tkrcoin monommencoin 05:38:50 ty 05:41:54 sgeo : because webgl models only do one thing 05:42:17 whereas a game does a lot of stuff and it has to work together 05:42:37 also a lot of game elements are actually quite nice in isolation 05:43:00 fungot: i want a god that stays dead, not plays dead 05:43:00 kmc: do you prefer it, go for it"? why?. what's openfts? what's alatheia? equations? but you can construct 05:43:07 but when you put the whole together the artificiality somehow shows 05:43:15 maybe it's the wooden character animation 05:44:29 focus follows fungus 05:45:19 -!- kmc has set topic: focus follows fungot | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 05:48:23 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:51:16 HackEgo!!! 05:51:57 i must eat ice cream 05:52:50 the ice cream i bought yesterday has become soup but that is okay 05:53:19 kmc: http://mcpherrin.ca/tmp/yolo.patch.txt.html 05:53:40 c.c 05:54:41 whoa what is this about putting 'reserved: in the middle of a static 05:55:04 kmc: it's a weird macro 05:55:16 stuff below that are reserved keywords 05:55:46 it's like (whatever)* 'reserved (whatever)* in the MBE 05:56:02 i never metaprogram I didn't like 05:58:56 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:00:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:22 https://gist.github.com/mcpherrinm/e833906f12a9471ae880 06:01:29 more permanent YOLO patch url :-P 06:02:13 I should make one that has ☢ or ☢ 06:02:21 ☣ 06:02:59 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:03:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:06:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:06:24 `unidecode ⚠ 06:06:34 ​[U+26A0 WARNING SIGN] 06:09:37 WebGL is officially a drug 06:09:38 http://betanews.com/2013/05/23/internet-explorer-uses-its-ongoing-vine-series-to-tease-webgl-support/ 06:09:57 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 06:10:29 Sgeo: explain 06:10:55 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:10:59 The "vine" depicts an older IE holding up a bag containing HTML5 and asking "HTML5? What's next, WebGL?" 06:11:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:11:40 ok 06:14:07 haha wacky. musta been on the big drug to think of something so weird. 06:14:15 the big drug 06:14:19 the big u 06:16:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:16:30 that's right, i'm talking about... marijuhwana 06:17:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:18:36 -!- edwardk has joined. 06:18:51 Bike: why doesn't your stupid state have any actual weed stores yet 06:20:11 too busy arguing over how the booze stores work 06:20:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:21:25 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:23:42 `coins 06:23:43 ​lection2coin rientcoin reimaccoin intenecoin pomercoin fmgcoin selfgcoin golgenomagecoin jellcoin risincoin kayakatcoin flecoin ajjcoin mycecoin homecoin consuecoin encecoin soreenmadbillcoin tanemicoin kuhecoin 06:23:45 So pretty https://www.shadertoy.com/view/lssGDX 06:24:26 "Q: Can I incorporate marijuana sales into my existing business?" 06:28:50 can you! 06:29:57 like.. as part of a logo? 06:30:07 as a structural component? 06:31:13 kmc: nope 06:31:25 which seems like a weird rule to me, but such is #drugz 06:35:19 The metaball sub is the most popular product at Subway. 06:35:30 -!- mhi^ has joined. 06:36:10 Why is my browser struggling with shadertoy? 06:36:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:36:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:37:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:37:31 fizzie: I believe it. 06:38:02 Sgeo: I think firefox hangs while it compiles the shaders 06:38:30 I wish the gallery pages and any page except the page for a specific shader would just show a screensht 06:38:31 shot 06:38:41 http://liartownusa.tumblr.com/post/87674487235/signs 06:42:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:42:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:47:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:47:12 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:49:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:51:01 -!- edwardk has joined. 06:57:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:00:22 -!- password2 has joined. 07:20:19 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 07:21:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:21:51 -!- augur has joined. 07:22:34 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:26:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:27:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:28:07 kmc: "noöp" has science gone too far 07:28:33 -!- slereah_ has joined. 07:39:56 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:42:37 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:43:18 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:46:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:47:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:47:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:56:20 -!- password2 has joined. 07:57:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:58:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:17 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:25:30 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:26:29 kmc: talking to strangers in bars is overrated. They just talk about sport, tv and other boring stuff... 08:27:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:27:49 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:30:57 impomatic: depends what bars you go to :p 08:31:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:34:50 -!- augur has joined. 08:35:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 08:36:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:43:11 mcpherrin: if you know a bar where strangers talk about coding stuff, please let me know :-) 08:43:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:54:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:58:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:58:48 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:14:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:15:43 Aaaaaah why do I need to convert from base 55 to base 8 09:15:50 s/8/2/ 09:15:56 impomatic: well that depends on where you are I guess, but I have talked code with bar strangers plenty :p 09:16:08 SF can be like that :p 09:16:14 (Waterloo too) 09:16:43 Taneb: why 55? 09:16:53 lifthrasiir, I don't know 09:17:01 Looking at a past paper for an exam I have this evening 09:17:21 "Convert the following numbers into a signed 8 bit binary representation.: 021(base 55)" 09:17:37 eh. 09:18:07 wow, searching for "base 55" gives something like this: https://github.com/zmallen/SecurityChallenges/blob/master/challenges/ISTS10/encode1/encodesub.py 09:19:44 I think it might be to make sure we understand the principle of converting between bases 09:20:38 021(base 55(base 111(base 2))) 09:20:57 Oh god I hope not 09:22:27 Things about being at University of York: there is one black swan. 09:22:53 There are like 20 in the UK 09:23:05 There was two at the start of the year but one of them died 09:23:10 But the other has cygnets! 09:24:36 Well, I presume the cygnets are the children of both the black swans 09:24:46 Anyway, that's irrelevant to like everything 09:30:11 I,I http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/257334/teaching-children-to-convert-between-number-bases 09:32:05 `? I,I 09:32:28 HackEgo are you dead again 10:04:40 Taneb: there's a town in Devon (Dawlish) with 10-15 black swans. We visited last year. 10:05:49 Wikipedia says there's 9 breeding pairs in the UK 10:14:11 -!- boily has joined. 10:36:22 * boily focuses on fungot, as it seems to be the Norm and the Topic told me so. 10:36:22 boily: damn straight. one doesn't program in c... 10:36:45 fungot: one doesn't program in C. one becomes one with C. 10:36:46 boily: they could be 10:36:58 fungot: it doesn't seem, but it do. 10:36:59 boily: using scsh? or did you pay? :) ( but why do you ask 10:37:18 fungot: I didn't ask. you asked. but I should ask. should I? 10:37:18 boily: that's really all of it? 10:37:30 fungot: that's all of it, and two toasts with nutella. 10:45:28 fizzie: did you change fungot's speech patterns recently? 10:47:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:52:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:55:39 Not that I know of. 10:56:30 ^style 10:56:30 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 10:56:38 oh. irc. 11:01:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: STORMY CHICKEN). 11:11:19 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:11:45 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:32:37 ^style ic 11:32:38 Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) 11:33:01 fungot: how are you? 11:33:01 FireFly: if you like.) by default. to be able to match a onespot variable if it happens to be deleted, as a whole, which cannot expand any further). 11:53:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:08:14 It occurs to me that regarding zzo32’s question of lists in argument lists calling the function multiple times, that idris’ ! syntax could make this work, of a sort, in a context that allows multiple values … 12:08:14 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 12:13:05 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:25:00 Well, I seem to have found a bug trying to make it work. 12:32:48 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:35:57 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:53:20 -!- spiette has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:59:34 -!- M28_ has joined. 12:59:45 -!- M28 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:04:49 -!- spiette has joined. 13:09:23 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:17:21 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:32:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:32:42 -!- yorick has joined. 13:40:24 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:41:38 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:43:34 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:44:36 -!- M28_ has changed nick to M28. 13:52:22 * impomatic wonders if there's more pubs called the black swan than actual black swans 13:57:18 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:16:31 yer a black swan 14:19:00 Racist 14:26:10 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 14:31:31 slereah_: you're an overgrown ape who can't climb very well. 14:32:18 "The current global population is estimated to be up to 500,000 individuals." 14:33:00 population of what? 14:33:13 I guess the actual black swans win that one. 14:33:25 oh 14:33:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:34:00 when you said "actual black swans" i read it as "actual impactful events that could not have been predicted in advance" 14:36:59 V_V 14:42:50 huh. 14:49:13 taneb said there's only about 20 black swans in the U.K. 14:50:30 you didn't specify a scope for your question, so I assumed worldwide. 14:51:55 which makes it an interesting question ... the estimates for the number of pubs worldwide differ by several orders of magnitude (partly because people do not agree on a single definition of the term "pub") 14:56:18 int-e: was continuing the discussion from several hours ago about black swans in the U.K. 14:58:15 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:58:45 -!- ter2 has joined. 15:02:12 -!- tertu3 has joined. 15:03:16 -!- mihow has joined. 15:03:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:03:39 -!- tertu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:04:03 -!- tertu3 has joined. 15:16:12 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:16:18 -!- ter2 has joined. 15:19:22 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:35:28 -!- vyv has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:51:34 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:55:51 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:00:34 -!- slereah_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:12:55 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:15:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:24:39 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:27:45 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:32:12 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:34:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:48:37 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:52:12 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:56:14 `dis86 b303b06ecd80faebfe 17:05:53 -!- ter2 has joined. 17:11:37 `nasm 17:12:55 whither HackEgo 17:13:56 mov bl,0x3 / mov al,0x6e / int 0x80 / cli / jmp $ 17:14:06 yep 17:15:07 which is (base64'd for spoilers) aW9wbCgzKTsgYXNtKCJjbGkiKTsgd2hpbGUgKDEpOwo= 17:23:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:23:46 -!- realz has quit (Quit: realz). 17:28:52 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:29:32 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:35:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:39:28 "Convert the following numbers into a signed 8 bit binary representation.: 021(base 55)" <-- oh come on two digits is trivial regardless of base. i can do that one in my head. 17:39:34 -!- conehead has joined. 17:39:39 hth 17:40:54 (admittedly it helps to remember that 127 is 01111111) 17:46:39 kmc: isn't a bit dangerous to assume that the upper 24 bits of eax are already zero? 17:50:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:51:28 yeah idk 17:51:31 I didn't write the code 17:52:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:53:35 -!- mihow has joined. 18:05:09 ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ 18:13:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:43:49 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:46:31 kmc: you should sell scp on rust hth 18:49:55 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 18:51:10 scp? 18:57:53 o_O 19:17:17 heh, "This call is necessary to allow 8514-compatible X servers to run under Linux." 19:23:09 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:28:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:41:30 http://jsfiddle.net/B85pH/ javascript is fucked up, volume 315 19:42:22 nice. 19:52:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:53:38 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:56:00 How do C local static variables and threading interact/ 19:56:09 I went to the library this evening and took out a couple of books 19:57:05 Bicyclidine: the static overrides the local 19:57:12 so they're shared between all threads 19:57:29 One enigmatically entitled "Categories", and the other being the first volume of TAoCP 19:57:31 by 'local' i mean like in a function scope. 19:58:42 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Stuff to do). 20:00:55 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:00:56 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 20:00:57 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:11:23 -!- realzies has joined. 20:15:35 Bicyclidine: pre-C11, the spec says nothing about concurrency, and I don't know what C11 says 20:15:49 but in practice they are just like globals that can only be used in that function 20:15:53 so they're shared by all threads 20:16:29 void f() { static int x; ... } is much like int __x_for_f; void f() { ... } 20:16:44 okay, i figured. 20:16:47 thanks. 20:17:07 kind of puts a damper on all this DSP stuff i have 20:17:15 a common pattern for (non-threadsafe) singletons in C++ is Foo* getFoo() { static Foo x; return &x; } 20:17:24 there's a keyword __thread in C11 that makes them specific to each threa 20:17:25 which I believe is spec'd as construct on first use 20:17:27 *thread 20:17:32 Oh, hm... 20:17:43 well this code is supposed to be c89 i guess so lol 20:17:50 ye olde c 20:18:21 "The __thread storage class marks a static variable as having thread-local storage duration. This means that, in a multi-threaded application, a unique instance of the variable is created for each thread that uses it, and destroyed when the thread terminates. " oh, that's nice and straightforward. 20:18:34 yeah 20:18:52 I believe thread-local storage is usually a bit slower to access 20:18:54 but not terribly 20:20:04 you can look up the TLS ABI for Linux/glibc by Ulrich Drepper if you want your eyes to melt and fall out 20:20:31 heh the second google hit for ulrich drepper is https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=10134 20:20:54 i'm confused that this was resolved FIXED rather than WONTFIX or WORKSFORME 20:36:37 `ping 20:39:22 hwh. 20:39:23 heh* 20:40:28 -!- nortti has changed nick to hvidie. 20:40:50 -!- hvidie has changed nick to nortti. 20:58:41 -!- nortti has changed nick to testasdasdasdsa. 20:58:48 -!- testasdasdasdsa has changed nick to nortti. 21:08:52 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:10:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:29:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:40:10 -!- M28_ has joined. 21:40:11 -!- M28 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:40:51 -!- M28_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:41:10 -!- M28_ has joined. 21:44:58 *** glibc detected *** /us/rlocal/MATLAB[...]: malloc(): smallbin double linked list corrupted 21:45:03 ain't ffi grand 21:46:39 depends on the language 21:47:10 haskell, for example, has a great FFI as long as you stay away from libgmp 21:53:28 most FFIs I've used are pretty pleasant, relative to the inherent pain of C anyway 21:53:36 which is mainly Haskell's, Rust's, and Python ctypes 21:54:12 i know, it's just that when i fuck up i get errors i'd never have seen in either C or the other languae 21:54:22 oh, I used JNI a bit, which is pretty un-pleasant 21:54:29 I guess I blocked out those memories 21:54:37 I want a higher level Haskell↔Rust FFI which can marshal algebraic data and integrates memory management and such 21:54:46 like i guess i wrote over malloc overhead?? 21:54:56 Bicyclidine: seems like 21:54:59 Bicyclidine: now write an exploit 21:55:15 haha it's matlab, it's one giant attack surface 21:55:30 I managed to get matlab to dump Java stack traces to its console, once 21:55:46 also confused it to the point it thought minus infinity was greater than 0 (it segfaulted soon after), purely trying to use it in normal operation 21:56:00 oh, this time i got an abort signal and a crash, rather than having to kill the process 21:56:02 you could send unique-boxed Rust objects to Haskell as ForeignPtrs 21:56:21 and you could have refcounted Rust objects where some refs are held by the GHC heap 21:56:50 this time it was a bad free... what the hell am i doing 21:56:54 and you could lend Haskell objects to Rust if you have a way to root them in the GHC GC 21:57:01 kind of like how we lend JS objects to Rust in Servo 21:57:29 a rewrite of the GHC RTS in Rust would also be pretty neat, though a ton of work 21:57:50 as I recall SPJ spoke favorably of that idea 21:58:01 Heh, that would be interesting. 21:58:09 most of Rust's RTS is written in Rust :) 21:58:17 but Rust doesn't have much RTS, and it's mostly optional 21:58:52 What is GHC's RTS written in? 21:59:11 C and assembly 21:59:13 Mandarin 21:59:14 oh. 21:59:17 K 21:59:23 it's about 50 kLOC iirc 21:59:31 Hmm, I happen to know some people intending on writing a Haskell compiler 21:59:50 Taneb: feel free to put them in contact with me 21:59:58 since I know and like Rust and I know a fair bit about the things a Haskell RTS has to do 22:00:26 taneb: What’s their motivation for another Haskell compiler? 22:00:32 ion, fun, mostly 22:00:33 is it named YAHC 22:00:39 taneb: Fair enough :-) 22:00:45 Also sadness at the fact that YHC is really unmaintained 22:00:48 I started writing a Haskell compiler named THC 22:01:15 Does THC stand for THC Haskell Compiler? 22:01:27 As it is a new Haskell compiler written in the University of York, it is of course called the New York Haskell Compiler 22:01:29 please, no 22:01:31 oh thank god. 22:02:42 "Someone recently asked on the Yhc mailing list if Yhc was dead. The answer is yes, noone has been working on the compiler for several years." 22:03:12 "The biggest challenge for Yhc was the build system - we ended up with 10,000 lines of Python Scons scripts." 22:03:21 D: 22:03:35 So you understand why we want to start again 22:03:42 How do I figure out where gcc is getting includes from, again 22:03:50 now I wonder how aimake would react to it 22:04:21 ais523, here's the webpage: http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/fp/darcs/yhc/web/ 22:04:28 Bicyclidine: my method was to compile a test program that includes iso646.h, limits.h, sys/types.h, setjmp.h, and zlib.h 22:04:37 i don't like that method :( 22:04:42 Feel free to put the two in your program accelerator 22:04:46 i just want to know where mex.h is. 22:05:12 Bicyclidine: I wrote two screenfuls of comments on why those five files specifically 22:05:34 why do i ask questions here 22:08:39 Taneb: good name for a compiler 22:08:51 FireFly, I think it was my suggestion 22:09:20 Either me or one other person it could have been 22:15:16 nice https://github.com/asciimoo/drawille 22:15:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:15:50 IF ONLY TELNET WERE A DECENT PROTOCOL 22:15:57 * Taneb breaks down into mostly irrelevant tears 22:16:07 taneb gon bring down the wrath of zzo 22:16:22 I thought zzo was more of a gopher chap? 22:16:42 anyway did you get anything good at the library 22:16:45 e.g. pornography 22:16:57 Not as far as I am aware 22:17:06 all bad things, huh 22:18:11 OK, telnet is not as bad as I thought 22:21:15 man i don't know what the hell i'm doing to matlab, this is almost funny 22:21:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:21:50 -!- M28_ has changed nick to M28. 22:23:38 G'night 22:31:47 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:33:54 -!- boily has joined. 22:36:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:40:26 -!- not^v has joined. 22:41:34 Bicyclidine: what are you FFIing? 22:42:02 well i fixed the error through some method that indicates i don't understand this program. is there any good way to declare a function declared in a header __attribute__((noreturn)) or should i do something else 22:42:26 ion: it was TriBeCa Haskell Compiler 22:42:43 at the moment, i'm calling a middle ear simulator written in C, from matlab. 22:43:27 fun 22:43:55 Bicyclidine: what do you mean? you can put __attribute__((noreturn)) on the decl in a header 22:44:02 i mean it's not my header. 22:44:29 hm, I'm not sure how gcc feels about re-declaring functions 22:44:40 the only warnings i'm getting are about a variable being uninitialized; i have code like if (species is out of range) mex_error_Thing() else if (species == ...) initialize else if (species == ...) initialize 22:45:06 i don't know the best way to fix this. i'm guessing gcc doesn't know that mex_error_thing aborts but i don't technically know that 22:45:35 #define mex_error_Thing lol_screw_u #include "mex.h" #undef mex_error_Thing __attribute__((noreturn)) void mex_error_Thing(...) 22:46:00 i'll try it. #yolo 22:46:13 that is kind of the worst thing ever 22:46:15 but I'm proud of it 22:46:28 just redeclaring might also work. 22:46:30 actually, first i'll just redo the declaration to see what gcc does 22:46:32 yeah 22:46:39 THEN i'll betray god with this code of yours. 22:46:44 or you know, edit the header. 22:46:49 or copy-paste the header into your file and then edit it 22:46:50 pshhhhhhh 22:47:03 anyway is there some other way to do what i'm doing? I don't know if it's best practice or whatever. 22:47:10 or use some pragma nonsense to disable the warning 22:47:31 you could write your own ((noreturn)) wrapper which calls mex_error_Thing(); exit(1); or so 22:47:38 or even while(1) mex_error_Thing(); 22:47:39 :3 22:47:43 ;_; 22:48:08 mex error thing returns to matlab, which is why i'm a bit worried about declaring mex noreturn. i think the C might live in the same process as matlab? i kind of don't want to know honestly 22:48:10 or a dummy initialization? 22:48:19 it probably does 22:48:25 so I wonder how it manages that 22:48:31 possibly setjmp / longjmp 22:48:50 i was gonna do a dummy but then i'm worried that if i change things around later i might actually leave them with the dummy values, which would be annoying to debug 22:48:51 a function which calls longjmp is a valid use case for noreturn, aiui 22:49:04 initialize to dummy and then assert that they aren't dummy before you use them? 22:49:12 i guess taht would make sense. 22:49:19 they're all doubles, so i guess i can make them nans 22:50:02 of course, there are eighteen of these, so it's gonna be annoying any way i do it haaaaa 22:50:08 bleh 22:50:11 macro time! 22:50:31 heh. yeah, it's doing matrix multiplication, so that would work fine probably. 22:50:51 well, something resembling matrix multiplication at least 22:50:56 can yout ell i don't know what i'm doing 22:51:24 you seem to know what you're doing a lot better than most scientists who code 22:51:45 i try! 22:52:00 this code also has a couple casts from doubles to ints, so like, lol. 22:52:11 i think even matlab doesn't actually want you to do that 22:53:43 lolwut 22:54:10 well, (int) 3.0 will do a conversion in C 22:54:13 not a reinterpret 22:54:16 fuck C, by the way 22:54:20 I don't... know what that means 22:54:26 like, it will give you the int 3 22:54:31 Huh. Weird. 22:54:32 never mind that it's represented by completely different bits 22:54:34 C casts do like 3 unrelated thing 22:54:35 Don't worry though. THe doubles are actually ints to begin with. 22:54:37 Hell yeah. 22:54:38 which is really annoying to everyone 22:54:55 because people show up asking "how do I do casts in language X" and you have to figure out what the hell they actually mean 22:55:03 god, i know exactly what you're talking about 22:55:10 "how do i convert a string to an int" i have bad news 22:55:11 kmc: eugh double - int casts in C make me sad 22:55:14 yeah 22:55:20 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ#Does_Haskell_have_type_casts.3F 22:55:25 though I suppose they do what you want most of the time 22:56:09 anyway as far as i see the code does something like this: matlab puts an int somewhere. matlab calls my C. the C retrieves the value using mxGetPr, which returns a double*. then i (int)that[0]. so it's never actually a double. 22:56:32 there's an mxGetData that returns a void* that you're supposed to use so i'll use that once i get anything working 22:57:19 -!- blitter64 has joined. 22:57:54 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:01:37 wowwwww matlab uses a custom linker script for ld 23:02:02 wowwwww someone's using matlab 23:02:10 work, man. 23:02:18 or non-man. i don't rcognize you. 23:02:20 heh, i guessed as much ;-) 23:02:52 blitter64: hi! who are you? 23:03:01 this is the first time i've seen a ld script in the wild 23:03:05 though it looks pretty simplistic. 23:03:24 hi boily. i'm me! 23:03:27 aka chaiomanot 23:03:40 Bicyclidine: since gender is constructed we can't apply the law of the excluded middle! 23:03:41 "This is the symbol export map file for glibc Linux MEX-files with Fortran gateways" god help me 23:03:43 :) 23:03:51 psssssssh constructivists 23:04:18 principle of explosion sounds p. good in a gender context 23:04:34 >_< 23:05:50 blitter64: I vaguely recall having seen a chaiomanot somewhere. maybe. 23:05:53 Does Rust's linker have scripts and weird bullshit like that 23:05:57 Bicyclidine: exploding genders??? 23:06:13 yes 23:06:17 also matlab uses this for some reason http://www.hwaci.com/sw/mkhdr/ 23:06:31 certainly explains lacking attributes... 23:08:00 oh cool i don't actually have write access to this header anyway! yay having a boss who knows how to computer 23:12:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:12:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:12:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:12:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:12:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:12:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:13:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:13:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:13:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:14:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:14:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:14:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:14:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:14:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:14:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:15:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:15:33 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:15:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:16:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:16:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:16:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:16:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:17:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:17:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:17:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:17:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:17:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:18:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:18:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:18:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:19:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:19:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:19:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:20:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:20:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:20:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:21:16 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:21:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:21:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:21:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:55 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:25:00 -!- glogbot has joined. 23:25:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:25:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:25:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:40:07 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 23:41:24 -!- aretecode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:59:59 -!- conehead has joined. 2014-06-04: 00:03:45 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:05:41 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:08:39 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:21:52 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:56 * boily is a little bit overwhelmed by all those minecraft mods. just a little bit. in fact, I'm completely terrified. 00:28:53 * olsner just finished baking in the middle of the night 00:29:22 midnight baking. that's one activity I never tried yet. 00:29:32 (midnight coffee and other fluids, tho...) 00:29:32 the book said "about 2h", but I think it took more like 5 00:29:44 what were you cooking? 00:30:00 granted, the last hour and half was more watching a movie waiting for things to cool down 00:30:23 and at least 1h of dough raising time 00:31:02 sounds like something bready. 00:32:13 basically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_roll but I did them different shapes and only half the batch with cinnamon 00:32:40 the other half with almond paste 00:33:56 oooooooh... 00:35:15 (something ostensibly like http://lillafavoriten.com/wp-content/uploads/bild-32.jpg, but not even nearly as pretty) 00:38:23 weird. very weird. that may be the first picture I ever saw that progressively loaded to the left. 00:38:37 `olist 00:38:45 954 is out? :D 00:39:04 olsner: something about Fettisdag, and that special royal pastry. 00:40:10 it's probably loading progressively from the top, but also includes jfif tags saying it's rotated 00:40:30 that can also give you progressive loading from the bottom 00:41:08 -!- conehead has joined. 00:41:33 boily: nah, just ordinary swedish fika ... my turn to bake for tomorrow 00:43:19 fettisdagen is before lent, whenever that is 00:44:16 eh, anyway, good night 00:44:36 bolsnernne nuit! 00:49:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:50:40 olsner, is it... regular... ordinary swedish fika 00:51:49 -!- Bike has joined. 01:08:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:09:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII). 01:10:00 @tell boily needs more chicken 01:10:01 Consider it noted. 01:10:14 -!- Bike has joined. 01:16:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:19:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:20:16 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 01:33:51 What's with .json extensions? They say nothing about the meaning of the thing, just the format? 01:35:01 isn't that true in some sense for most file extensions 01:35:12 .xml 01:37:05 what about it 01:37:28 I know I've seen .xml, I may have been hallucinating .json 01:37:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 01:37:37 . 01:37:37 i have seen .json 01:37:51 XML files may or may not describe their own meaning internally 01:43:05 in C++ a method's local variables can have automatic or static storage, but I wonder if there are other langugaes where you can also do object storage 01:43:17 i.e. the variable implicitly becomes a bit of member data, which is only visible within that method 01:43:33 this isn't really possible in C++, where you need to know an object's layout without seeing the implementations of all its methods 01:44:17 it would seem fairly useful, though 01:44:54 possibly good for concurrency 01:45:12 What makes this different than member variables of the object? 01:45:19 other than scoping 01:45:26 the implicitness 01:45:45 the idea is you have a method that has some local variables, and they're made into fields of the object rather than locals of the function 01:46:35 So it's a purely syntactic distinction 01:47:33 Uh, no? 01:47:39 scp: scoping is the whole point 01:47:48 what makes a static local different from a file-level static or a global? 01:48:06 (the answer is time of initialization, but i'm ignoring that for the moment) 01:48:38 (these would be initialized on first call, like static locals, because you can't name them in the constructor or initializer list) 01:48:42 well that varies by language too. But yes, the fundamental difference is that two functions can have different 'static int foo's 01:48:47 (but I don't remember if that's guaranteed threadsafe) 01:49:50 -!- Burton has joined. 01:53:03 ISTR g++ has a global lock for all non-POD local static initializers, which is not great 01:53:16 also I am very bad at pinball, even when sober 01:53:59 kmc: That is what the generated code suggests. Or what it did last time I looked at this, maybe a year ago. 01:54:03 is being good at pinball even possible 01:54:17 Bike: the machines showed much higher high scores than I could attain, but maybe they were hacked. 01:54:32 I did get a top 10 score on Asteroids and Tempest, though, which I found weird 01:54:35 maybe they reset them frequently 01:54:45 asteroids like, spaceship, shooting? 01:54:48 I know I've said this before but original vector Asteroids is amazingly beautiful 01:54:51 yes 01:56:05 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 01:56:23 although I noticed the lines are not perfectly smooth because the DAC has only a 10 bit resolution 01:56:33 I wonder if you could fix that with a switchable low-pass filter 01:59:22 * kmc -> dinner 02:04:30 kmc: vector displays are too pretty 02:04:38 I miss my analog scope :( 02:04:47 jj2baile: has it now 02:08:44 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 02:10:23 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 02:13:31 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:27:31 So, the reason the docs on x3dom.runtime were empty is because they killed x3dom.runtime 02:27:46 rip in pieces 02:31:33 No they didn't 02:31:53 rip in one piece 02:32:17 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:40:14 Web pages can independently open view-source: urls now? 02:40:20 And they don't even say view-source: in the URL bar? 02:40:25 What is this world coming to? 02:41:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7BnMnr-KSY this should explain 02:41:14 What the world is coming to 02:49:08 :/ the only reason I realized I left this 'CORS EVERYTHING' extension enabled is because something that relied on CORS broke 02:49:09 :/ :/ 02:49:12 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:49:26 "The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header contains multiple values 'http://threejs.org, *', but only one is allowed. Origin 'http://threejs.org' is therefore not allowed access. " 03:04:19 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:15:20 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:19:52 -!- ter2 has changed nick to tertu. 03:30:09 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:41:13 -!- edwardk has joined. 03:44:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:58:14 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:58:14 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:58:32 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:06:17 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:10:15 -!- conehead has joined. 04:20:41 hello party people 04:21:38 more like hangover 04:21:53 (not literally) 04:22:28 -!- M28_ has joined. 04:24:46 at the moment, i'm calling a middle ear simulator written in C, from matlab. <-- well you cannot expect labyrinthic code to be bug free hth 04:25:19 -!- M28 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:25:21 * kmc looks some things up 04:25:22 oh, I get it. 04:25:54 oerjan: i was kind of hung over today 04:25:59 MIDDLE ear, FUCKER 04:26:08 oh darn 04:26:22 btw the problem was just a buffer overflow 04:26:24 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 04:26:28 is it like normal for those to fuck up malloc data 04:26:44 brazilian coworkers and their caipirinhas 04:26:53 Bike: if it's a heap allocated buffer, yes 04:27:00 malloc metadata is typically stored right next to allocated blocks 04:27:03 darn, and here i was thinking i was interesting 04:27:09 this is one of the main ways of exploiting heap overflows 04:27:35 if the allocator does something like "foo->prev->next = foo->next" and you control those fields, then you have a write-what-where primitive 04:28:01 Bike: you should play http://io.smashthestack.org/ 04:28:09 this is clearly highly relevant to your work in computational biology 04:28:46 clearly 04:29:35 Bike: i guess my pun should have been more anvilicious :( 04:30:52 mostly i just felt shitty due to only sleeping 4 or 5 hours last night 04:30:54 that would probably have made it more clear 04:30:57 and i have no fucking idea why that was 04:30:57 aw 04:31:03 alcohol may have been a factor 04:33:18 fungot: what is your favorite alcohol 04:33:18 kmc: 2. compile the externally-called files. ( the resulting combination. ( `next from' is likely to get two versions of some other intercal compilers; types are calculated at compile time, at least to the c temporary files to object files and include files, and this is a more portable way to pop the top of the resulting value being discarded. 04:47:17 I want a browser that's not afraid to break compatibility with the web 04:47:39 Something that webmasters can strive to meet compatibility with, but is more secure for users of that browser 04:47:53 No cross-domain cookied GETs and POSTs 04:48:15 Hmm, that could make the site less secure for other browsers, if those assumptions are relied upon 05:02:11 var split = true; 05:02:11 if(split) 05:02:15 o...k.... 05:02:22 https://github.com/schteppe/cannon.js/blob/master/examples/threejs_fps.html#L185 05:03:22 i want a god that stays dead, not plays dead 05:03:31 Sgeo: we have various ideas about this kind of thing 05:03:34 mostly for perf not security 05:03:47 e.g. "asm.css" where you opt in to a faster layout algorithm that disables certain corner cases 05:04:14 and new APIs like getBoundingClientRectAsync() 05:04:57 That reminds me, is NodeJS likely to start using generators when they're available? 05:05:04 And make them well-integrated in the stdlib? 05:05:09 That would make me actually look at it 05:06:10 Sgeo: did you see http://jsfiddle.net/B85pH/2/ 05:06:50 Now I have. 05:06:51 Wat. 05:07:04 That... can't be part of the JS standard? 05:07:09 I believe it is, now 05:07:25 it would be pretty bad if your implementation had to account for the possibility that *any* function call could change the caller's scope 05:07:32 so wrt this particular power, `eval` is special syntax 05:08:25 -!- M28__ has joined. 05:08:30 huh, thought it was a security thing. Make it blatanly obvious when eval is being used 05:08:41 that's a nice side benefit I guess 05:09:24 Do setInterval and family also have this power, or just eval? 05:09:50 um, imagine what it would be like if setInterval *did* 05:10:03 http://media.bestofmicro.com/silent-pc-passive-cooling,8-C-367068-22.jpg 05:10:36 Was going to try it, then realized that.... wait, hmm, maybe it could... no... can't pass both a string and closure in, can I? 05:11:33 this is why eval with explicit environments is the superior eval 05:11:45 -!- M28_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:12:03 Sgeo: I dearly hope not even JS has a way to say "change the variable x in my scope in some random amount of time not less than some constant". 05:12:47 I wonder if Rebol has... 05:13:02 matlab does, probably 05:13:38 today i found out there's an undocumentedmatlab dot com, disproving the existence of god 05:14:55 Doesn't really count: var foo = [0]; 05:14:55 setTimeout(function(){foo[0] = 1;}, 5); 05:14:55 setTimeout(function(){show(foo[0]);}, 10); 05:15:56 Now, give me yield... 05:16:09 wait, can't you just do it with los clojures 05:16:58 I just tried it by assigning to foo directly instead of modifying array if that's what you mean. Worked. 05:17:11 bam 05:19:30 oh yeah there's that java 'randomly change all ints in the vm at random intervals' thing too 05:19:57 nondeterminism ftw 05:20:47 true become: false 05:21:03 elliott: that sounds like a good feature for intercal 05:21:17 it's for security testing, ovviously 05:21:41 true become: false. makes things go blank on Pharo 3.0. false become: true causes things to freeze 05:21:46 Hardened Intercal 05:21:51 I guess the problem here is just "race conditions exist". 05:21:54 SECal 05:21:58 it's just shared memory. 05:22:12 It would suck if messing around with this actually did something screwy outside the Smalltalk VM 05:24:54 i bet everything will go fine if you switch true and false both at once 05:25:01 become: swaps, I think. 05:25:13 why would they have different consequences then 05:25:40 "i was just talking about races, bike" yeah well you wouldn't help me think of a good name 05:26:22 elliott: it does, although I didn't think it did 05:26:42 elliott confirmed for jerk with dumb face 05:26:54 what :( 05:29:10 https://24.media.tumblr.com/f7ad90b05a4a5ff18783b09ed2de9d45/tumblr_n6kcs32i921rk8yano1_500.png 05:31:31 That looks like a BYOND game.. graphics for the dialogue are better though 06:01:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:01:46 -!- mtve has joined. 06:38:26 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:43:18 -!- slereah has joined. 08:02:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:40:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:41:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:42:24 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 08:48:35 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 08:48:36 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 08:48:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (*.net *.split). 08:48:49 -!- Bike has joined. 08:49:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:49:28 -!- aloril has joined. 08:52:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:52:40 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:03:06 eek girl genius site redesign 09:08:09 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:08:50 -!- EgoBot has joined. 09:16:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:16:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:16:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:16:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:16:39 -!- glogbot has joined. 09:16:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:16:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:33:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:40:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:15:56 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:25 pong. (I saw earlier that lambdabot joined #nicta-course, so it didn't seem urgent to reply) ... for how long is this course taking place? I can add the channel to lambdabot's configuration so it will rejoin by itself when restarted. 10:20:31 uhm 10:20:38 missing privmsg. whatever. 10:22:40 no, that was a privmsg 10:22:45 just a channel privmsg 10:24:14 * impomatic didn't see any privmsg 10:24:38 impomatic: you should read more irc spec 10:25:58 ais523: you are correct as usual, but you probably know what I intended to say. 10:26:09 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:26:14 Not a privmsg. 10:26:16 -!- Gregor has joined. 10:26:34 ordinary messages sent to channels are privmsgs, technically speaking 10:26:41 int-e's notice is not a privmsg, but it's one of the few things that isn't 10:26:46 * ais523 notes that this is a privmsg too 10:27:06 the IRC spec won't save you this time, read the CTCP one 10:27:23 int-e: yes it will, PRIVMSG and NOTICE are defined in the IRC spec 10:27:27 test. test. un deux un deux check. 10:27:42 SQUERY is too 10:27:47 but nobody uses that 10:27:56 coppro: but then you will never see any emotes 10:27:58 what's a SQUERY? 10:28:15 a message to a service 10:28:17 just unmotivated \001 thingies 10:28:34 anyway, according to the spec, bots are supposed to talk only in notices 10:28:36 to avoid botloops 10:28:50 but that's generally ignored because mIRC's interpretation of the spec tends to outweigh the actual spec 10:28:57 at least in terms of users getting annoyed at you 10:29:13 (mIRC treats all notices as pingworthy by default, for whatever reason) 10:29:28 perhaps the IRC commands should just have had better names 10:29:50 (why would anybody POP UP a message box for a message that by specification is deemed less important than a privmsg?) 10:30:00 now if NOTICE were named REPLY ... 10:30:10 (following ais523' thought) 10:30:33 anyway. 10:30:52 ais523: yeah, the mIRC thing pisses me off 10:30:56 I wanted a privmsg targeted at a particular nickname, not a whole channel. 10:30:57 especially with regards to color codes 10:31:23 I wish a server operator had had the spine to say "no, fuck your stupid spec, I'm filtering out your color codes until you fix them" 10:31:31 @massages-loud 10:31:31 kmc said 9h 21m 30s ago: needs more chicken 10:31:43 coppro: /set hide_colors on keeps me calm and happy 10:31:50 int-e: that was my solution too 10:31:51 (irssi) 10:32:03 although the way you do that's different in Konversation 10:32:11 coppro: actually, the best response 10:32:14 is to write a bot 10:32:20 where whenever anyone uses a mIRC color code 10:32:23 it replies with a notice 10:32:28 @tell kmc I couldn't chicken yesterday, I was minecraftedly disturbed. 10:32:28 Consider it noted. 10:32:40 ais523: hahaha 10:32:52 int-e: that doesn't solve the problem 10:33:10 the problem is that mIRC has a fundamentally broken spec, and everyone else follows along because mIRC has an insane and stupid amount of momentum 10:34:03 regardless of any individual user's preference to colors, the implementation is flawed, and implementations should insist on one that works (like the one in the CTCP spec) 10:34:29 coppro: where did I write that it solved the problem? "calm and happy", ignorance is bliss. :P 10:34:52 it also doesn't solve the other big problem, which is that people use mIRC 10:36:27 Sorry, I just can't seem to get worked up on *this* minor problem (unlike many others). 10:38:50 int-e: IRC is an extremely heterogenous spec. It is frustrating that there is no standard. 10:39:05 There is the RFC, which has bad design but that no one has actually stepped up and shot 10:39:22 what's wrong with mirc's colour codes 10:39:41 it has an increasing variety of server-specific controls, as the proliferation of IRCds get their own modes (sometimes really bizarre ones) and services become more integrated with them 10:40:05 the increasing trend towards centrally adminsitered networks also leads to more of this 10:40:27 Phantom_Hoover: They are ambiguous 10:40:40 There are string/colour combinations which cannot be expressed 10:44:44 Ceci n'est pas un code de couleur 10:46:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:55:42 xmpp would probably be much better but irc has an insane and stupid amount of momentum 11:01:04 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MOMENTARY CHICKEN). 11:01:45 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:06:18 xmpp is a basis for a protocol I thought, rather than an actual protocol? 11:37:00 -!- blitter64 has joined. 11:37:40 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 11:38:02 -!- edwardk has joined. 11:49:25 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:03:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:12:06 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:21:56 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:28:15 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:42:13 -!- yorick has joined. 13:01:51 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:02:16 coppro: re. colour codes/unrepresentable strings, do you have any example? 14:03:19 AFAIK ^C04 is legal for switching to red, and can't be confused with anything else 14:03:54 The single-digit variants are problematic though 14:13:33 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:44:16 FireFly: What if you want ,10 in red? 14:44:34 With the default background 14:48:56 -!- mihow has joined. 14:52:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:03:52 FireFly: ^C is CTCP, the %C spec is mirc 15:09:52 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:11:12 http://dcoj.wmh3.com/cscos/h/ this is going to be the next big thing! 15:16:52 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 15:18:37 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 15:21:55 -!- lollo64it has joined. 15:22:25 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:28:40 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:28:49 -!- mellifluous has joined. 15:35:02 using the address of a static object to identify a resource is pretty handy 15:35:16 because then the linker takes care of assigning unique IDs, even if you have dynamically loaded plugins and what-not 15:45:20 doing dlopen()-style plugins in Rust is really easy 15:45:27 there's no particular reason it wouldn't be, but still, I was pleased 15:45:33 there's no typechecking, though :/ 15:48:09 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:48:14 -!- mihow has joined. 16:04:01 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:11:43 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:17:20 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:20:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:20:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:22:32 -!- Bike has joined. 16:28:57 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:29:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:37:02 -!- mihow has joined. 16:39:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:50:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:12:20 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:26:21 -!- shikhin has changed nick to lawspeaker. 17:26:28 -!- lawspeaker has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:27:10 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:28:06 -!- shikhin has changed nick to lawspeaker_. 17:28:47 -!- lawspeaker_ has changed nick to shikhin. 17:28:51 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 17:29:10 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 17:29:38 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker_. 17:29:49 -!- lawspeaker_ has changed nick to nortti. 17:32:04 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:34:29 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:34:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Politics are overrated). 17:42:14 FreeFull: hm oh, good point 17:42:34 coppro: CTCP is ^A, no? 17:42:50 but eh, whatever 17:45:14 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:48:28 It is 17:48:45 ^A is CTCP, ^C is colours 17:49:00 Test 17:49:08 17:49:24 I figured it out 17:49:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:51:08 -!- Bike has joined. 17:55:53 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:56:31 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 17:57:05 -!- conehead has joined. 17:58:37 -!- mihow has joined. 18:02:32 FireFly: ^A is used to introduce a CTCP command. But CTCP specifies other control codes, like ^C for colours and a few other formatting characters 18:03:22 Oh, I didn't know that 18:06:30 they just aren't widely implemented because mIRC 18:06:57 and that's basically because Khaled went "here's how I do it" and presented a poorly formatted spec, and then resisted all efforts to fix it to something sane or get him to use the spec everyone else was using 18:07:05 no other irc client dev is as stubborn, so he won 18:09:41 esoteric computation medium: pulleys http://vimeo.com/93042377 18:21:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:25:56 `olist 954 18:26:05 erh 18:26:20 I think we've already had that one. 18:26:29 Not that HackEgo was up back then. 18:26:59 or now. 18:27:25 OR IN TWO MINUTES 18:27:48 Gregor: quick, you can make Bicyclidine be wrong if you hurry! 18:28:09 what an incentive 18:28:25 indeed, i am known for never being wrong 18:28:52 shachaf: hey it might work. 18:39:09 < int-e> coppro: /set hide_colors on keeps me calm and happy – Aww, but then you can’t see when idris-bot is showing the unit value vs. the unit type. 18:44:37 -!- HackEgo has joined. 18:45:19 ( () 18:45:19 () : () 18:45:51 ( (.).(.) 18:45:51 When elaborating an application of function Control.Category..: 18:45:51 Can't disambiguate name: Prelude.Basics.., Control.Category.. 18:46:39 ( with Basics ((.).(.)) 18:46:39 (input):0:0:Incomplete term (.) . (.) 18:46:46 bah 18:46:50 boobs? 18:47:33 c.c 18:53:05 ( the (HVect [Type, (Type, Type), (Type, ()), ((), Type), ((),())]) [((),()),((),()),((),()),((),()),((),())] 18:53:05 [((), ()), ((), ()), ((), ()), ((), ()), ((), ())] : HVect [Type, (Type, Type), (Type, ()), ((), Type), ((), ())] 18:56:19 yikes 18:57:29 (ty the 18:57:37 eh, I guess I can just do 18:57:39 ( the 18:57:40 the : (a : Type) -> a -> a 18:58:03 ( :t the 18:58:03 Prelude.Basics.the : (a : Type) -> a -> a 18:58:09 ( :doc the 18:58:09 the : (a : Type) -> (x : a) -> a 18:58:09 Manually assign a type to an expression. 18:58:09 Arguments: 18:58:09 a : Type -- the type to assign 18:58:09 x : a -- the element to get the type 19:14:03 :t ((),()) 19:14:05 ((), ()) 19:14:14 :k ((),()) 19:14:15 * 19:14:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:16:28 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:21:43 -!- mihow has joined. 19:27:18 http://pastebin.com/uFF9LsFg spot the backdoor 19:28:06 terrible 19:54:54 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:55:07 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:58:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:03:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:04:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:14:07 kmc: Please explain. 20:14:50 it has to do with C deals with arrays in function parameters 20:14:56 i.e., it doesn't :V 20:15:28 so master_key is just a uint8_t*. 20:17:20 spoiler: http://codepad.org/bDAlhNYy 20:17:52 Ah, nice. 20:17:57 so it uses a (probably) 64-bit key, which is enough to seem secure, but not actually secure 20:18:00 :3 20:18:21 it's enough to be secure against casual attackers, even, but not against the NSA 20:18:35 So where was this code spotted? 20:18:52 don't know 20:19:02 i got it from someone on IRC who got it from someone on Twitter 20:19:46 It was supposedly somebodys own code 20:20:00 not a deliberate backdoor, just a dumb error 20:20:09 yeah, they said they accidentally backdoored their own code 20:20:12 (presumably: if it was a backdoor you wouldn't tweet about it) 20:20:27 https://twitter.com/aris_ada this individual 20:24:55 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:44:03 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:45:34 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:54:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:54:46 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:55:06 -!- conehead has joined. 20:57:03 -!- tertu has joined. 20:58:41 http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/06/alice_bliss_robo_take_our_drug_or_programming_language_quiz.html 21:00:53 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:05:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:12:07 -!- `^_^v has joined. 21:21:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:27:20 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 21:35:53 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:35:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:52:27 -!- Slereah has quit. 21:52:44 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 21:54:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:56:18 -!- Bike has joined. 22:06:17 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: .). 22:10:01 -!- M28__ has changed nick to M28. 22:11:47 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:11:49 -!- yorick has joined. 22:20:28 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]). 22:21:02 -!- boily has joined. 22:32:27 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:32:52 -!- tertu has joined. 22:33:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:34:47 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:39:01 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:39:27 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:44:35 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:08:54 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:10:47 -!- scp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:18:21 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:18:21 -!- kwertii has quit (Changing host). 23:18:21 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:21:53 -!- edwardk has joined. 23:35:27 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:36:26 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:38:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:39:46 -!- mihow has joined. 23:44:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:46:22 -!- scp has joined. 23:52:57 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 2014-06-05: 00:05:15 holy fungot of incredible textures. 00:05:15 boily: there are two forms of each item, the ears close a group, and can extract it anywhere). if you happen to check newer programs for compatibility with older compilers. 00:05:48 fungot: only two? you lack imagination and mods. the Crack Pack is... it's... wooooah... 00:05:48 boily: 5.2 line labels, an array element is the number of elements that that syntax corresponds to a set bit in :2 or not ( by specifying a line label, any `come from's or `next from's aiming at a command or file which has no effect, simply run `come from' aiming at a labeled statement, although to protect new intercal users c-intercal will look for `come from' behaviour, the expansion libraries 00:06:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:11:33 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:14:24 -!- M28 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 00:14:39 -!- M28 has joined. 00:15:51 boily: what have you textured 00:18:10 -!- Bike has joined. 00:21:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 00:24:34 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:25:08 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:28:13 -!- mellifluous has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:32:35 `unicode ૐ 00:32:36 U+0AD0 GUJARATI OM \ UTF-8: e0 ab 90 UTF-16BE: 0ad0 Decimal: ૐ \ ૐ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 00:40:02 http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.7686 quantum neat thing possibly 00:47:34 kmc: I slightly tried the Crack Pack. haven't discovered its full potential yet. I was mainly overwhelmed by the Biomes o' Plenty. 00:47:59 but I'm going to go to sleep first. my brains don't work correctly tonight. 00:48:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CYCLING CHICKEN). 00:54:08 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:05:33 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:06:58 -!- mcpherrin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:12:13 -!- Bike has joined. 01:33:08 -!- mcpherrin has joined. 01:43:15 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:47:48 -!- MDude has joined. 01:50:14 It seems there aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems. 01:51:04 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 01:53:51 -!- mcpherrin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:54:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:55:06 -!- MoALTz has joined. 01:56:36 -!- PiRSquared has joined. 01:57:22 -!- mcpherrin has joined. 02:12:54 So, NodeJS 11 will have generators. I am now interested in learning NodeJS. 02:14:28 tragic. 02:19:41 There are advantages to having to clearly indicate where any potential cooperative threading yields are 02:20:05 Hmm, generators are mutable in a way that continuations aren't, ick 02:22:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:24:35 -!- Bike has joined. 02:32:43 what's a generating set for NodeJS? 02:33:21 -!- not^v has joined. 02:41:04 generating set? 02:44:03 "Good thing we were forced to change our calling syntax to help us see the danger." 02:47:31 Sgeo: you know, a set that generates all elements through repeated application of the operation 02:50:28 var generatingSet = ((function*(){yield 1; yield 2})()).next 02:50:30 I think 02:51:03 Hmm, maybe not 02:52:18 kinda doubt there's a reasonable way to make a group out of node 02:52:56 http://howtonode.org/generators-vs-fibers 03:02:41 wat https://github.com/trevorlinton/webkit.js 03:03:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:06:36 What do they generate? 03:16:47 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDeam. 03:22:09 http://taskjs.org/ 03:31:26 -!- mellifluous has joined. 03:31:37 -!- PiRSquared has quit (Quit: bye). 03:37:13 I find that an odd coincidence, since I mentioned wanting something earlier that apparently amounted to cooperative mulitasking in javascript. 03:37:44 And then it happens is a way that's possibly much better than what I was thinking. 03:38:07 MDeam: yield and friends isn't available in most browsers. Welcome to callback hell. 03:38:29 Hmmm. 03:38:38 Then I'll stick with making a silly tihng later. 03:39:09 Promises seem to be the popular way of coping 03:46:23 -!- password2 has joined. 03:51:41 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:05:10 I think nodejs's stdlib looks interesting 04:07:42 d d d d d d d d d d dd d d d d d d d 04:21:15 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:23:41 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 04:26:03 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 04:43:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:48:06 -!- BeingToDeath has quit. 04:56:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:10:34 npm looks really cool 05:11:14 the new agoran rule about signing your messages looks poised to be both hilarious and annoying. 05:11:24 i just realized it applies even to ##nomic. 05:12:25 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:12:44 or wait, on rereading the rule, it probably doesn't. 05:14:55 how can we kill off javascript once and forall? 05:16:03 step one 05:16:20 stab everyone involved in making javascript 05:16:23 step two 05:16:27 stab everyone involved in making HTML5 05:16:32 step three 05:16:59 Ok. The person behind the Socket.IO chat demo is brain damaged 05:17:08 make a new non shitty markup scripting language 05:17:11 become the biggest mass murderer ever? 05:17:30 mcpherrin: no one said it was going to be easy. 05:17:34 also kill all the PHP devs 05:17:37 The client sanitizes by putting input into a div and reading the HTML. It then sends it, server does no sanitation, and the result gets put into the display via .text() 05:17:44 haha 05:17:49 not^v: at this point it's probably easier to just wipe out all of humanity 05:17:50 not^v, have you seen god bless america? 05:17:54 Hmm, maybe not 05:18:01 function cleanInput (input) { 05:18:01 return $('
').text(input).text(); 05:18:01 } 05:18:05 Die bösen werden geschlachtet 05:18:36 mcpherrin, true 05:18:47 we probably deserve it 05:18:49 lets start the purge 05:18:50 *B 05:19:00 everyone with an IQ lower than 200 dies 05:19:11 Sgeo, the point of a demo is usually a basic test 05:20:12 200, so that's like 6 SDs, so 1 in 506797346 survive 05:20:23 so like... fourteen people or so 05:20:30 whats an SD 05:20:36 standard deviation 05:20:43 ah 05:20:46 maff' 05:20:55 IQ has a mean of 100 and SD of 15. for example, my IQ is 97 05:22:01 according to who? 05:22:12 iunno. took a test once. 05:22:18 has anyone noticed lately that this channel is completely terrible? 05:22:22 Bike, wдt 05:22:38 Bike, an IQ of 97 is low 05:22:44 Bike, you should retake it, you have a higher iq than that 05:23:01 no fucking way you have below average IQ 05:23:07 (excluding america) 05:23:14 bad news, i'm in america 05:23:19 elliott: "what makes you say that" 05:23:19 same 05:23:21 <_> 05:23:27 whats the IQ average in america 05:23:32 85 05:23:34 iirc 05:23:39 or is it uncomputable because of all the illegal immigrants 05:23:42 oh my god would you stop 05:23:43 the world is 93 or something 05:23:52 jeez 05:24:03 ok yeah done being funny. 05:25:15 oh, usa is 98 now 05:26:00 IQ is a dumb as hell test and I hate living in this environment where sad joke death threats about programming languages are normal. 05:26:22 -!- kmc has left. 05:26:41 has anyone noticed lately that this channel is completely terrible? <-- _very_ lately, maybe. 05:27:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 05:27:27 i am the voice of goddess 05:27:31 bow before me, peons 05:30:33 you scared away kmc again 05:31:25 not^v: look I've kicked you like once or twice already. can we not make me want to do it again in future 05:32:13 actually that's my life advice to literally everyone 05:32:15 socket.io looks... really, really easy to use 05:32:34 Sgeo: socket.io is *great* for whacking out demos of neat things 05:32:44 elliott: literally literally? 05:32:47 nuh uh, you haven't kicked me once or tw- no. wait, actually you have 05:32:59 mcpherrin: are you implying it's not great for anything more complex? What are its limitations? 05:33:09 oerjan: literally. 05:33:15 i... did not read that implication 05:33:47 Sgeo: The server is limited to a few hundred connections 05:34:00 afaik, I haven't used it in 2-3 years 05:34:10 mcpherrin: hmm. Found a Haskell library implementing the protocol 05:35:03 mcpherrin: is that just a server limitation or a protocol limitation 05:35:18 wow what's going on in this channel 05:35:20 Sgeo: Dunno; I haven't used it at scale. 05:35:41 My particular upcoming use case is ... not going to be for a community of hundreds of people 05:35:59 everythings falling apart 05:36:09 :< 05:36:11 -!- mcpherrin has left. 05:36:13 elliott, you kicked me? 05:36:34 not^v: yes. 05:36:37 i dont remember 05:36:51 then I must remember to make my kicks more memorable in future. 05:37:22 * not^v poofs into ^v 05:37:25 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: *poof*). 05:38:09 oerjan: can I +b an entire continent or something to make things more dramatic? 05:41:42 well it's not like we get any australians, south americans or africans to speak of. 05:41:57 <^v> one time someone used and entire /24 range to spam an irc channel 05:42:01 hiato is south african 05:42:06 or whatever name he goes by now 05:42:07 <^v> from peru 05:42:18 I swear we've had a few australians. 05:42:19 elliott: and when was he last here? i rest my case. 05:42:26 oerjan: fairly recently! 05:42:29 recent enough to have gotten into haskell 05:42:40 <^v> by /24 i mean /16 05:42:43 <^v> i need bed 05:43:12 itidus was australian wasn't he 05:43:17 oh. yeah. 05:43:20 maybe I *should* ban australia. 05:43:25 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 05:43:30 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*@*.aq. 05:43:33 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 05:43:41 I think we can all agree on that. 05:43:45 i feel lied to 05:43:57 what's the difference? 05:44:03 they're both big desert continents nobody cares about 05:44:18 -!- oerjan has set topic: No penguins allowed | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 05:47:24 "The Australian government uses the .aq domain for its official site for the uninhabited Heard Island and McDonald Islands, "heardisland.aq". .hm, the TLD assigned to Heard and McDonald Islands, has instead been transferred to a private registry and opened for general registration." 05:49:47 <^v> oerjan, what are the results of that survey? 05:50:19 <^v> well i gtg bed 05:51:01 `addquote It seems there aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems. 05:51:03 1202) It seems there aren't any expert systems for answering questions on the nature of expert systems. 05:51:35 ^v: don't ask me 05:51:59 @tell ^v don't ask me 05:51:59 Consider it noted. 05:51:59 "Should there be a standardized way of embedding comments? 1. Yes, /* and */ (C++ Style)" good grief, and this calls itself a survey about brainfuck 05:52:12 <^v> lol 05:52:41 elliott: well it's a survey about creating a brainfuck standard hth 05:52:51 "What should EOF return? (What happens on EOF) [...] Move one cell to the right" 05:52:56 last programming language i wrote used for comments 05:53:01 because, its, hilarious 05:53:05 oerjan: by brainfuck standard, you mean most pointless brainfuck dialect yet? 05:54:15 elliott: may i suggest reading that when you're in the mood for some silly fun instead twh hth 05:54:46 oerjan: you think esoteric programming languages are the place for silly fun? 05:55:51 fowl: um that's html... 05:56:08 elliott: i know it sounds absurd when you put it that way. 05:56:40 oerjan: fowl wrote the HTML specification 05:56:58 ah. one of the people we should kill then. 05:57:23 oerjan, i know, html comments inside a programming language, doesnt that make you want to punch a kitten? 05:57:58 surprisingly, no. unless the kitten is otherwise very annoying. 05:58:12 you know, being driven to violent thoughts by programming isn't normal or a good thing. 05:58:38 I thought this was obvious but apparently this channel has believed otherwise twice in an hour. 05:59:18 yeah calm down with a http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snack 06:01:29 elliott, i dont think it is programming that drives me to these thoughts, they just bubble up in a programming context 06:01:35 elliott: psst i was joking because fowl _started_ the previous discussion. 06:01:51 oerjan: I was responding to fowl, not you. 06:02:12 fowl: ok, I agree you have deeper issues then :p 06:02:26 a fowl mind 06:02:40 i have a tiny brain, dinosaur scale, and a cloaca, you know what that is? its all your parts in one. its a nightmare. 06:04:02 the only thing that gets me through the day is thought of landing an aerial strike on one of you or your cars 06:04:45 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_cloaca cool, you can get born with a cloaca 06:05:48 O_O 06:11:47 birds are fairly peaceful 07:03:40 [wiki] [[Onecode (GermanyBoy)]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39748&oldid=39746 * GermanyBoy * (-5) /* Hello world */ 07:03:53 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:09:05 [wiki] [[Twocode]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39749&oldid=39747 * GermanyBoy * (-1) /* Factorial */ 07:09:51 -!- scp has left. 07:16:19 -!- kmc has joined. 07:16:31 -!- kmc has left. 07:31:26 -!- Burton has joined. 07:33:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 07:43:54 -!- slereah_ has joined. 07:51:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:29:06 elliott: If you have one, can you lay eggs from it? 08:40:31 what exactly does regex-compat use? 08:40:43 it doesn't seem like it uses pcre nor posix 08:41:09 In what programming language? 08:41:55 Haskell 08:42:08 The Hackage description: One module layer over regex-posix to replace Text.Regex 08:42:20 The Hackage dependencies: …, regex-posix (>= 0.95.1) 08:42:43 The first paragraph in the Haddock: Regular expression matching. Uses the POSIX regular expression interface in Text.Regex.Posix. 08:42:51 Prelude Text.Regex> matchRegexAll (mkRegex "([:digit:]*)") "127" 08:42:51 Just ("","","127",[""]) 08:43:04 [[:digit:]] 08:43:15 oh 08:43:32 right. 08:44:50 ion: thx 09:43:35 -!- edwardk has joined. 09:47:01 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 10:16:06 -!- boily has joined. 10:18:56 oerjan: no penguins allowed? but penguins are the most bestest cutest birds evar! 10:26:11 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:26:26 boily: sorry, it was elliott's decision 10:28:20 -!- edwardk has joined. 10:28:23 elliott: WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? 11:01:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY). 11:12:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:19:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:19:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:23:59 no penguins, dood? 11:30:26 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:03:10 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:43 -!- yorick has joined. 12:12:22 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:18:36 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:24:20 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:29:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:32:40 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:42:30 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:49:46 -!- ter2 has joined. 12:49:46 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:56:58 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:03:32 -!- mellifluous has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:16:27 -!- mellifluous has joined. 13:18:25 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:22:00 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 13:25:28 -!- rodgort has joined. 13:27:03 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:47:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:59:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:29:33 -!- sign has quit (Quit: Here we are, going far to save all that we love - If we give all we've got, we will make it through - Here we are, like a star shining bright on your world - Today, make evil go away!). 14:29:55 -!- sign has joined. 14:30:18 -!- sign has quit (Changing host). 14:30:19 -!- sign has joined. 14:38:11 -!- Bobby_ has joined. 14:40:14 -!- Bobby_ has quit (Client Quit). 14:42:43 -!- not^v has joined. 14:46:03 -!- mihow has joined. 14:59:12 -!- slereah_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:21:03 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:34:50 -!- hubs has joined. 15:37:02 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:39:22 -!- mhi^ has joined. 15:41:53 https://github.com/seutje 15:54:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:54:15 -!- MDeam has changed nick to MDude. 15:55:17 "If you want, you can specify a longer banner width (gitbanner -w X ...). Any width longer than 52 will be cut off on Github, but the banner will be slowly revealed as the weeks go by." 15:55:21 amazing 15:56:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:56:26 ouch :) 16:00:53 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 16:01:48 -!- mihow has joined. 16:14:53 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 16:15:45 -!- mihow has joined. 16:38:19 -!- smooki has joined. 16:38:46 -!- smooki has quit (Client Quit). 16:40:02 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:49:32 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:51:10 -!- not^v has changed nick to ^v. 16:54:39 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 17:11:29 -!- Burton has joined. 17:16:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:19:35 -!- conehead has joined. 17:21:57 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:22:55 great, for the second time this term my exam's had an incorrect question 17:23:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:30:38 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:35:32 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:36:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:38:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:39:21 nice timing, i got back the same minute the thunderweather started 17:50:43 ion: I do not have a cloaca. 17:53:58 shocking 17:56:52 -!- mihow has joined. 17:58:12 `WeLcOmE mihow 17:58:13 MiHoW: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: . (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) 17:58:37 thanks! hi 17:59:08 what language is that bot written in? 17:59:29 HackEgo runs (nearly) arbitrary linux commands 18:00:10 cool. I see some potential for an esoteric language there. 18:00:26 now _fungot_ on the other hand... 18:00:26 oerjan: in intercal, programs other than the more of these contexts. the resulting threads backtrack; this is an expression is placed on a system not based on unix and linux systems and versions are also marked `volatile'. 18:00:33 ^source 18:00:33 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 18:01:21 nice! 18:02:11 and EgoBot is the bot with a lot of esolang interpreters. (in principle HackEgo has copies of them, but the setup isn't quite working) 18:02:25 !unlambda ``.h.ii 18:02:27 hi 18:03:30 oh interesting. is HackEgo in github? 18:03:31 and there are a number of other bots which aren't so eso-related. 18:03:38 hm i think so. 18:03:44 `help 18:03:44 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 18:03:59 well it has its own webpage 18:04:02 `? HackEgo 18:04:03 HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 18:04:18 but i think the underlying code is somewhere like github 18:04:37 and some of it is shared with EgoBot 18:04:45 !unlambda ` `.t.est 18:04:46 te 18:05:06 !unlambda ` `.t.e.s.t 18:05:06 te 18:06:04 mihow: you need 1 less ` than other functions (where .x counts as one function) 18:06:42 ^wiki unlambda 18:06:42 http://esolangs.org/wiki/unlambda 18:07:09 -!- skarn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:08:08 Gregor: nice github picture 18:08:35 !unlambda `.ix 18:08:36 ​./interps/unlambda/unlambda.bin: file /tmp/input.20501: parse error 18:08:42 mihow: https://github.com/GregorR/hackbot 18:08:56 ha, okay i’ll practive outside of irc 18:09:03 practice 18:09:25 x isn't one of the unlambda functions :) 18:09:44 mihow: you can ask EgoBot in private too 18:09:46 I thought that’s where the argument goes 18:10:28 !unlambda `r`.!`.d`.l`.r`.o`.w`. `.o`.l`.l`.e`.Hi 18:10:28 Hello world! 18:10:34 an unlambda expression is either one of the builtin functions or ` followed by two expressions. 18:11:28 -!- skarn has joined. 18:11:34 -!- skarn has changed nick to Guest39776. 18:13:50 !unlambda `.k`.n`.i`.o`.Bi 18:13:50 Boink 18:14:18 jawohl 18:15:44 -!- ^v has joined. 18:15:45 okay back to work, thanks for the help oerjan & int-e. I lookforward to playing with hackbot 18:15:59 see you 18:16:01 !unlambda `````.H.l`.e. ``.l.,`.o.!```.s.u`.h.e``.f.l`.fri 18:16:01 Hello, shuffle! 18:17:11 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:17:17 (it's fun to take a binary tree of with identities at the leaves and work out the evaluation order) 18:18:13 I guess the next level is to sprinkle some `d in there. 18:23:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:24:09 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 18:27:03 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:32:09 -!- password2 has joined. 18:51:16 -!- Guest39776 has quit (Changing host). 18:51:16 -!- Guest39776 has joined. 18:51:36 -!- Guest39776 has changed nick to skarn. 19:06:58 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:08:11 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:08:35 -!- mihow has joined. 19:09:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:18:39 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:20:18 -!- mihow has joined. 19:37:14 ARST ARSW: Star Wars sorted alphabetically http://youtu.be/5GFW-eEWXlc 19:39:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:50:49 hmm, is there only 43m of dialogue in star wars? 19:52:07 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 19:52:11 seems believablwe 19:54:13 hmm, I'd like it by frequency 19:54:40 -!- ^v has joined. 19:57:07 kenobi occurs twice as often as jedi 20:18:35 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:21:18 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:22:50 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:25:54 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for CDOP Star Wars watching | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 20:51:55 -!- mellifluous has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:06 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:06:06 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:24:27 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:46:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:50:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:07:42 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:15:30 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:25:45 Seems legit. http://imgur.com/gallery/4nnbyru 22:26:29 haha. 22:26:50 bump at 100 too, weird 22:41:51 small bump at 0 too 22:42:07 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:42:14 presumably because it clips off either end of the bell curve and dumps those people into those two buckets 22:42:54 I would expect 0 to be entirely people who didn't answer any questions or something 22:43:05 it's kind of impressive to be perfectly wrong 22:44:23 right but the bell curve is still there at 1 and 2 22:44:34 and it's just as ridiculous to get only one question right 22:44:53 speaking of which— wait i already complained about 22:44:54 *that 22:45:01 noted 22:45:12 what I mean is that there are plenty of people who would get scores above 0% but choose not to. 22:45:23 so I don't think it's just clipping off the bell curve 22:46:33 maybe, but i mean wouldn't you expect that there'd be a bigger number of people getting 0 than 100 then? 22:46:59 whereas the jump at 0 is a lot smaller than the one at 100 22:47:17 cheating might inflate 100%, too :P 22:49:54 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:51:17 Hello 22:51:36 Phantom_Hoover, 0 could be "not turned up" 22:52:12 though then I'd expect it to be a lot bigger 22:52:14 again, that would probably mean way more people would get 0 than 1 22:52:27 whereas it's actually only about twice as much 22:52:37 I... don't actually know where this data is coming from 22:52:59 in the grand reddit tradition, there is no source. 22:53:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:53:21 * fowl afk grass mowing 22:53:42 ok 23:05:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:07:35 -!- kwertii has joined. 23:07:44 https://github.com/joyent/node/commit/28c6e42e 23:09:33 nice 23:33:57 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:36:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:40:23 Ugh, are Chrome extensions not allowed to abuse the Javascript on pages? 23:41:10 I think it would be possibly interesting to, say, write a disabler that does something like HTMLCanvasNode.prototype.getContext = function(){}; 23:52:41 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 2014-06-06: 00:01:37 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:02:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:19:28 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:22:10 Q.spawn(function*(){console.log("Hello"); yield sleep(1000); console.log("Goodbye");}); 00:22:15 (untested) 00:22:21 That... looks almost livable 00:23:29 what is livability 00:25:26 -!- blitter64 has joined. 00:30:39 Here's an interesting thought: The Node.JS ecosystem seems somewhat fragmented when it comes to promises... but it really doesn't matter because there's a standard Node.JS style, and practically all promise libraries seem to offer conversions to and from it, so fragmentation probably doesn't cause significant problems, the way streaming libraries in Haskell could cause problems and reluctance to use them anywhere except at the application 00:30:39 level 00:32:52 -!- hogeyui has joined. 00:49:05 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:49:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:04 -!- monotone has quit (Quit: "I can hear myself... I think I'm a bit afraid."). 01:12:05 -!- monotone has joined. 01:31:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:32:43 -!- Bike has joined. 01:38:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:39:58 -!- Bike has joined. 01:49:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:51:19 -!- Bike has joined. 02:15:59 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 02:35:18 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:49:57 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 03:30:42 http://dogeon.org/ 03:37:46 https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BhAP_yFe8oc/U1GovyKPkyI/AAAAAAAAA5c/P4zl6_P9v2o/w2560-h1920-no/14+-+1 03:44:17 -!- kmc has joined. 03:44:49 \o/ my lint plugin thingy is working! https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/3409ece44ead6d280b8e 03:48:09 -!- nooodl has joined. 03:50:22 kmc: do you have any thoughts on my ecosystem fragmentation thoughts? 03:51:10 kmc: custom linter? 03:51:29 Sgeo: i did not see such thoughts, nor did I think them 03:51:39 Sgeo: yeah, rustc will soon support custom lint plugins 03:51:54 here's the draft spec (such as it is) https://github.com/kmcallister/rfcs/blob/lints/active/0000-loadable-lints.md 03:51:54 kmc: neat 03:51:59 has some motivating use cases 03:52:13 'Loadable lints produce more coupling of user code to rustc internals (with no official stability guarantee, of course).' 03:52:28 So, is Rust about to become yet another language primarily defined by its implementation? 03:53:06 well, maybe, but I think these lint plugins are more part of the implementation than part of the language 03:53:10 clang and gcc also support plugins 03:53:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:53:45 I would say Rust has become yet another language where you have to enable a bunch of "extensions" to do anything fun 03:53:47 Most people use GHC-specific things these days, people may end up using a lot of rustc-specific things 03:54:05 kmc: huh, in that regard, only Haskell comes to mind 03:54:09 in this case the extensions are less about deviating from the standard (because there isn't one) and more about using things we don't want to support from 1.0 to the end of time 03:54:31 Sgeo: Linux kernel uses a bajillion GNU C extensions 03:54:37 Ah 03:54:47 Not that familiar with C or Linux kernel, sadly 03:54:49 and in JS it's pretty common too (or, you compile the extensions away, which is pretty much the same) 03:54:49 I should learn 03:54:52 -!- mellifluous has joined. 03:54:59 Sgeo: another time I can talk your ear off about craaaazy Linux GNU C tricks 03:55:18 kmc: I think Javascript's different. At least when you compile them away, the result should still hopefully run on several different JS runtimes 03:55:38 kmc: sounds interesting 03:55:41 Sgeo: anyway I can say that the Rust team is serious about standardizing Rust, but that'll come later, once it's more stable 04:00:25 Sgeo: lint plugins have access to the typechecker, so they can do things that external syntactic analysis can't do easily 04:00:34 and with marginal extra compile time 04:00:36 kmc: neat! 04:00:54 tomorrow I guess I should make some compelling demos. and tests, gotta have tests 04:01:07 Could I effectively write my own typesystem as long as it's stricter than the native one? 04:01:21 you can certainly do some things like that 04:01:30 for Servo we want to forbid certain types from appearing except in certain structs 04:12:17 `coins 04:12:25 ​dimecoin impercoin pavitcoin degunfrabcoin bchacoin evilcoin worsecoin rocrcoin gritumcoin standrafcoin returncoin vencoin grasscoin sansiscoin evptcoin liberecoin ozoicecoin mousecoin salcoin redisortoicoin 04:17:42 dimecoin 04:25:19 it'll never catch on 04:45:24 Worsecoin is bettercoin. 04:48:38 -!- mellifluous has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:58:04 -!- not^v has joined. 04:59:31 -!- not^v has quit (Client Quit). 05:04:43 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:12:38 -!- skarn has joined. 05:15:38 -!- kwertii has quit (*.net *.split). 05:15:42 -!- Burton has quit (*.net *.split). 05:16:02 -!- edwardk has quit (*.net *.split). 05:16:07 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 05:16:09 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 05:16:11 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 05:16:13 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 05:16:56 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:03 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:06 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:17 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:26 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:31 -!- impomatic has quit (*.net *.split). 05:17:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 05:17:42 -!- glogbot has joined. 05:17:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 05:17:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 05:18:36 Sgeo: all multithreaded C programs are using serious language extensions, in the sense that the spec doesn't assign any semantics to concurrency (before C11 that is) 05:19:32 semantics shmemantics 05:21:23 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 05:22:16 -!- kwertii has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:24:37 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:25:41 -!- ^v has joined. 05:26:32 -!- skarn has joined. 05:26:32 -!- monotone has joined. 05:26:32 -!- hogeyui has joined. 05:26:32 -!- hubs has joined. 05:26:32 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:26:32 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:26:32 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:26:32 -!- myname has joined. 05:26:32 -!- Speed` has joined. 05:26:32 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:26:32 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:26:32 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:26:32 -!- ggherdov has joined. 05:26:32 -!- b_jonas has joined. 05:26:32 -!- 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*.split). 05:28:53 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:53 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:54 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:54 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:54 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:55 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:55 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:55 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:56 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:58 -!- monotone has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:58 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 05:28:58 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 05:29:39 -!- heroux has joined. 05:31:37 "One often made mistake is to use closures inside of loops, as if they were copying the value of the loop's index variable." 05:31:44 :( >:( 05:32:26 i don't understand why people think there should obviously be a new binding every time 05:33:43 -!- skarn has joined. 05:33:43 -!- monotone has joined. 05:33:43 -!- hogeyui has joined. 05:33:43 -!- hubs has joined. 05:33:43 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:33:43 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:33:43 -!- mtve has joined. 05:33:43 -!- nortti has joined. 05:33:43 -!- erdic has joined. 05:33:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 05:33:43 -!- FireFly has joined. 05:33:43 -!- douglass_ has joined. 05:33:43 -!- fowl has joined. 05:33:43 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:33:43 -!- newsham has joined. 05:33:43 -!- trout has joined. 05:33:43 -!- b_jonas has joined. 05:33:43 -!- ggherdov has joined. 05:33:43 -!- lambdabot has joined. 05:33:43 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:33:43 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:33:43 -!- myname has joined. 05:33:43 -!- Speed` has joined. 05:33:43 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 05:34:44 -!- skarn has changed nick to Guest99438. 05:36:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:44:02 "The specification gives exactly one way of accessing the [[Class]] value, with the use of Object.prototype.toString." 05:45:57 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 05:48:02 "The automatic insertion of semicolon is considered to be one of biggest design flaws in the language because it can change the behavior of code." 05:48:15 npm's style guide says to only use semicolons in specific circumstances 05:48:51 https://www.npmjs.org/doc/coding-style.html#Semicolons 05:52:46 -!- mellifluous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:53:27 <-- i have this small urge to tell all the "label your axes" commenters that they would have failed the test. (fortunately i have no imgur account.) 05:53:31 oops 05:53:34 https://github.com/joyent/node/commit/28c6e42e <-- i have this small urge to tell all the "label your axes" commenters that they would have failed the test. (fortunately i have no imgur account.) 05:53:49 wait 05:54:07 and i paste the wrong quote. 05:54:41 Seems legit. http://imgur.com/gallery/4nnbyru <-- i have this small urge to tell all the "label your axes" commenters that they would have failed the test. (fortunately i have no imgur account.) 05:54:53 THAT WILL DO IT 05:55:02 * oerjan gets 29 points for effort 05:56:11 hah 05:56:49 oerjan: the Catholic Diocese of Peoria Star Wars watching? 05:57:26 ion: CDOP is like OCPD, but with the letters in the proper order. it is actually relevant in this case. 05:59:27 (http://youtu.be/5GFW-eEWXlc) 06:00:04 TIL: OCPD 06:00:13 I knew OCD 06:01:47 basically if you think you have OCD but aren't completely weird, you probably have OCPD instead. 06:02:21 (above message completely failing at detangling wrong stereotypes) 06:19:10 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 06:22:24 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:26:41 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:28:44 -!- atehwa has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:30:35 -!- myndzi has joined. 06:45:34 "child death overview panel" is a creepy name for an institution 06:46:29 pretty sure they have a creepy job too hth 06:49:31 oerjan: what if I am completely weird, but in ways that probably aren't related? 06:50:48 kmc: NOPE. ZERO ON THE FINAL. 06:50:54 :< 06:51:06 that polish one hth 06:51:28 a polish final? i'd probably get zero anyway 06:52:36 my next joke is ruined by zero actually being zero in polish 06:56:46 oerjan, most of the time when you say hth, i dont believe you really hope that helps 06:57:39 `? twh 06:57:40 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 06:58:03 wut 06:58:19 -!- password2 has joined. 06:59:23 I think most schools will tend to not give students pass-1 marks 07:00:34 fowl: you may be starting to get it hth 07:02:14 fowl: it's a bit more subtle. "hope that helps [but it would surprise me if it did]" 07:03:31 (or perhaps that's just my own reading) 07:03:37 aha 07:04:30 Three letters can express so much! (And "twh" is worse because it could also stand for "that won't help") 07:06:51 would probably stick an n in there in that case 07:07:36 that might help (tmh? hmm.) 07:08:41 twh is more optimistic. (wth?) 07:15:32 Ooh! http://www.dontstarvegame.com/blog/dont-starve-together-multiplayer-officially-coming-summer-2014 07:28:40 -!- BeingToDeath has quit. 07:29:50 -!- slereah_ has joined. 08:00:43 fff ie11 refuses to open tunes.org logs as text 08:14:31 pretty sure "wth" stands for "what the hell", or did last I saw it used anyway 08:16:01 With the hand 08:16:09 Wither the heart 08:16:26 Whittle to hear 08:16:45 Wang the hooha 08:17:11 It could be many things 08:18:57 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:22:01 lynx has a black background, and no simple way to choose a humane coloring style :( 08:23:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:24:28 i think we are in the end times. absolutely everything in the world is gradually getting annoying to use. 08:25:44 can you use wget as a pipe? 08:25:59 Maybe you are just getting old 08:26:05 Yelling at kids running on your lawn 08:26:11 DADBURN YONGUNS 08:26:15 IN MY DAYS 08:26:16 * oerjan swats slereah_ -----### 08:26:17 grumble 08:26:34 Aw Xchat doesn't have a trout command :( 08:26:54 oerjan: yoerjan 08:27:14 slereah_: you'll not be laughing when you realize this is all a plot by the new world order to drive us insane hth 08:27:26 did you disable the hth disabler 08:27:36 no just circumventing hth 08:27:50 you should just disable it hth 08:27:51 `unidecode th 08:27:52 ​[U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] 08:28:02 * trout glares at slereah_ 08:28:08 I like the current arc in Gunnerkrigg Court 08:28:17 * slereah_ slaps trout with himself 08:28:28 Taneb: my trick leaves no trace in the output. 08:28:31 * trout slaps slereah_ with a giant squid 08:28:34 `unidecode θ 08:28:35 ​[U+03B8 GREEK SMALL LETTER THETA] 08:28:39 `unicode 𓀀 08:28:40 U+13000 EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH A001 \ UTF-8: f0 93 80 80 UTF-16BE: d80cdc00 Decimal: 𓀀 \ 𓀀 \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 08:28:51 hθ 08:28:53 hþ? 08:29:08 the other day at dinner I told a bunch of people (including a CSS working group member) about good old U+A66E 08:29:39 shachaf: isn't it rad when people denote days of the week by M T W Θ F? 08:30:18 What was the limeric, again? 08:30:30 also "Jason D. Jfmamj" is a good fake name 08:30:33 ah stackexchange helpfully suggests -O - 08:30:34 S M T W Θ F Ϡ 08:30:43 you can say it's Welsh or something 08:30:43 I am a bit sad that Klingon was rejected from Unicode 08:30:51 slereah_: yeah, that came up too 08:31:03 -!- conehead has joined. 08:31:07 I said that Unicode was only for very serious characters like PILE OF POO and SMILING CAT FACE 08:31:11 i told someone about U+A66E the other day too 08:31:28 `unidecode Ϡ 08:31:28 Well Klingons do not have japanese cellphone company money 08:31:28 ​[U+03E0 GREEK LETTER SAMPI] 08:31:37 sampiday? 08:31:41 `unidecode  08:31:42 U+F8DF - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef a3 9f UTF-16BE: f8df Decimal:  \  () \ Uppercase: U+F8DF \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 08:31:44 `unicode U+A66E 08:31:45 ​ꙮ 08:31:53 HackEgo : STOP IT D: 08:31:56 `unidecode ꙮ 08:31:57 ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] 08:31:58 `unicode ꙮ 08:31:59 AAAAAH 08:31:59 U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 ae UTF-16BE: a66e Decimal: ꙮ \ ꙮ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) 08:32:03 The worst letter 08:32:05 oerjan: unidecode should be called icode hth 08:32:15 It is the spookiest letter of unicode 08:32:24 And I say this after looking at the Mayan unicode section 08:32:37 `run ln -s unidecode bin/icode 08:32:39 No output. 08:32:44 `run quote 1140 # Taneb 08:32:45 1140) A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 08:32:50 kmc, thanks 08:32:59 however this is an inaccurate limerick 08:33:04 because ꙮ is Letter, Other 08:33:31 it's almost as bad as that other limerick which makes dubious anatomical claims about the man from nantucket 08:33:57 what a failure of a limerick 08:34:03 i'll strive for maximal accuracy in the future 08:34:21 hmm, "autofellatio" works in a double dactyl 08:34:37 it's never actually saying that ꙮ isn't alphanumeric, though. 08:34:45 I guess so 08:34:57 https://www.wordnik.com/lists/double-dactyl-words 08:35:03 in fact, given that it uses ꙮ, it's giving good evidence for the opposite 08:35:17 but it's contrasting prose with poetry 08:35:20 shachaf, only if you are Swedish 08:35:30 Taneb: do you remember the original context 08:35:36 shachaf, not really 08:35:46 you also wrote a limerick 08:35:49 Probably 08:35:53 I'm trying to write one now 08:36:14 https://www.wordnik.com/lists/double-dactyls 08:36:16 `unidecode ꙮhth 08:36:17 ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] 08:36:18 http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/13.06.05 08:36:37 oh wait 08:36:46 `file bin/icode 08:36:46 bin/icode: symbolic link to `unidecode' 08:36:51 `icode ꙮ hth 08:36:52 ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0068 LATIN SMALL LETTER H] 08:36:52 hm both "heterosexual" and "autofellatio" work as double dactyl words 08:37:17 I... am both proud and disappointed at my limerick ability 08:38:27 "i am both proud and disappointed at my autofellatio ability" 08:38:33 okay enough kmc.jerkcity.moed 08:39:03 `unidecode ꙮerjan 08:39:04 ​[U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] [U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+006A LATIN SMALL LETTER J] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] 08:39:28 many-eyed seraphꙮerjan 08:40:03 There was a young man in York / Who read about Ankh-Morpork / "Discworld", he said / "Up with I am fed" / And instead watched Mindy and Mork 08:40:11 -!- kmc has set topic: The channel for CDOP Star Wars watching | AVOID SPIKES | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 08:40:47 ꙩꙫꙭꙮ 08:42:51 `icode ꙩꙫꙭꙮ 08:42:51 ​[U+A669 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER MONOCULAR O] [U+A66B CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER BINOCULAR O] [U+A66D CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE MONOCULAR O] [U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O] 08:43:04 mitꙮsis 08:43:16 This is how babies are made 08:43:27 (Disclaimer: I am not watching Mindy and Mork, or, indeed, the more exist-y Mork and Mindy) 08:43:40 * kmc -> zzz 08:44:21 Taneb: you gotta get the meter :'( 08:44:51 shachaf, it scans for me? 08:44:57 it does? 08:45:33 If I put on an RP accent 08:45:33 hm, perhaps we have different ideas of a limerick 08:46:15 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:46:23 maybe it works 08:46:32 it doesn't help that i don't know how to prononuce a bunch of words 08:48:01 can you annotate your emphasis 08:48:10 what do you expect of a limerick 08:48:21 I have a very loose definition of limerick 08:48:59 Line 4 comes out sounding quite rushed 08:50:54 I think it's dactylic 08:52:23 Taneb: i think most of your lines have one syllable less than is acceptable 08:53:30 ok maybe not most. but definitely the third and fourth. 08:54:10 what about the first, second, and fifth 08:54:30 i think the first is acceptable variation 08:55:40 oh actually not the fourth either, it's just bad 08:55:46 perhaps "morpork" is pronounced with emphasis on the second syllable and not the first 08:56:00 well that needs to be assumed. 08:56:13 is this actually the case 08:56:47 I can email people a recording of a reading maybe 08:57:49 If you want an email of me reading this limerick, pm me your address before 10:05 BST 08:58:09 email is not optimal 08:59:22 wait, i've heard "morpork" pronounced in _Discworld_ the computer game 08:59:35 -!- aloril has joined. 09:00:00 shachaf, I recorded it on my phone 09:00:13 I guess I could BlueTooth it to you, if you're within 30 meters 09:00:23 But then I mayswell just find you and read it to you 09:01:24 Hold on a second 09:02:25 I could send it THROUGH IRC 09:03:00 irc is not v. convenient 09:03:01 hm 09:05:07 Screw you guys I think this is poetic genius 09:08:44 now i'm writing a limerick but i can't finish the last line `h̀elṕ´ 09:08:58 or any of the other ones, actually 09:10:29 There was once a Finn in CA / Who wrote a limerick one day / But trouble he had / That made him quite mad / No I can't finish this one either 09:10:48 a limerick's never been written / by those who reside in great britain; / as a parting good-bye wish, / their old pals, the irish, / decided: infringers get smitten! 09:10:58 There once was a man from Madrass 09:11:04 Whose balls were made of fine brass! 09:11:10 So in stormy beather 09:11:13 weather* 09:11:18 They both clanged together! 09:11:24 shachaf, wasn't Edward Lear from Britain? 09:11:25 And sparks came out of his ass! 09:11:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:11:35 (the Leprechaun movies taught me a lot) 09:12:06 Taneb: and his limericks were generally utter scow 09:12:21 the first line and the last line ending with the same word 09:12:31 no sort of humor or story or flavour or anything 09:12:43 oops i half-ued my sentence 09:13:20 Filthy trans-atlantic scum 09:14:37 mr. lear's limericks are like stories that go nowhere 09:14:48 Well, that's true 09:15:03 barely rhyme or reason to them 09:16:03 I like the first quotation in http://www.poemhunter.com/edward-lear/ 09:16:18 Then I looked it up and it looks like the ellipsis isn't part of the original poem. 09:16:23 But it's a very good ending. 09:17:10 Calico Pie, / The little Birds fly / Down to the Calico tree, / Their wings were blue, / And they sang "Tilly-loo!" / Till away they flew— / And they never came back... 09:18:48 A big improvement over the original, it turns out. 09:21:54 `? atriq 09:21:54 atriq or two 09:23:10 `? ngevd 09:23:11 ​Eg˚Nf2<ܩX].)͂jU.gm0&u-CAtު)oI+sLMႍG竹HGF.[Ό_4ˌSf=}*}ܿ[žG9L\-‚]&D segmentation fault. 09:23:32 `? ngevd 09:23:33 ​=7l!jh]iil+b-56jC7d!Bm}Λcp!MMo?.Jw#F|@/4"I_ʣ7*yO3TjbY>qEygC|tXU.L}v_H1UtpoP2afbo\.)vU}Pũ¥@z`3>&s-KoLgzј>K}`ZBDsɐwPH2l:°z4mZ.v1`0z6fOqC|do.b \ *_ƧlPᚲ!UX U^ \ kGSl 09:23:44 `run echo < wisdom/ngevd 09:23:44 No output. 09:23:49 Nooo my segmentation ;w; 09:23:52 `run cat wisdom/ngevd 09:23:53 ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 09:24:28 ¡leave this file alone! 09:25:56 `? oerjan 09:25:57 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 09:26:08 Is empty = forever (return ()); ( ... 09:26:25 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:26:45 a <|> b = run a and b concurrently and kill the one that finishes last 09:26:57 A valid definition for an Alternative instance for IO? 09:27:01 Guys let's make an APL clone with unicode as a character set 09:27:09 It will have ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS 09:27:18 `run sed -i 's/a lying/an antediluvian/' wisdom/oerjan 09:27:20 No output. 09:27:25 uh I think APL is an APL clone with (a subset of) unicode as a character set 09:27:33 No subset! 09:27:38 ALL THE CHARACTERS 09:27:56 even the private-use characters 09:27:58 Taneb: I don't know, what are the laws? 09:27:58 ? 09:28:05 shachaf, essentially the monoid laws 09:28:07 All the existing characters 09:28:12 That's it? 09:28:21 Yeah :( 09:28:23 No "distributes over Applicative operators" or anything? 09:28:29 Nothing documented 09:28:42 what a scow 09:28:54 Not sure what the egyptian penis hieroglyph would be 09:29:03 Did you know: An Alternative is a monoid in the category of endofunctors? 09:29:24 Functor? I hardly know her 09:34:49 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:36:35 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39750&oldid=39548 * 92.16.148.172 * (+155) /* Computing components */ 09:36:37 -!- mhi^ has joined. 10:08:10 -!- boily has joined. 10:32:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:34:46 Wasn't there some assembly languages that had jump instructions for every instructions 10:34:54 Well, not assembly 10:34:56 Machine code 10:35:02 I seem to recall such things 10:35:19 You could make it read backward I guess 10:36:41 the story of mel? 10:36:51 yeah 10:37:07 Good ol' Mel 10:50:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:53:22 @tell MDude hi! who are you? you were quoted! 10:53:22 Consider it noted. 10:54:19 itym @ask hth 10:55:59 @ask MDude I may have meant ask? 10:56:00 Consider it noted. 10:56:31 worst xkcd pun in recent memory 10:58:56 I like it. it is beautiful. 11:01:38 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:14:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:26:31 it reminds me of http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/facebook-fan-20100225-062900.jpg 11:35:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:40:32 mroman: The results from the Spring Core War Tournament are up :-) http://corewar.co.uk/spring2014.htm 11:48:29 -!- Guest99438 has quit (Changing host). 11:48:29 -!- Guest99438 has joined. 11:48:32 -!- Guest99438 has changed nick to skarn. 11:49:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:06:42 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:19:42 -!- mellifluous has joined. 12:23:51 @check True 12:23:54 +++ OK, passed 1 tests. 12:24:08 @check \x -> isAlpha x == isLetter x 12:24:10 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 12:24:14 @check \x -> isAlpha x == isLetter x 12:24:16 +++ OK, passed 100 tests. 12:25:28 > and [isAlpha x == isLetter x | x <- [minBound..maxBound]] 12:25:31 True 12:29:02 -!- yorick has joined. 12:34:24 -!- mellifluous has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:34:44 -!- mellifluous has joined. 12:35:15 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:35:47 -!- blitter64 has joined. 12:42:44 -!- melli2 has joined. 12:42:46 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:43:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 12:44:25 -!- mellifluous has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:45:20 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:46:37 * oerjan wonders what the heck is the difference between lazy and strict ST monads 12:48:06 [wiki] [[RAGE!!!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39751&oldid=35531 * Malltog * (+415) Marked 'interpreter' as compiler (the interpreting is left to system python) and upgraded it a bit 12:48:32 -!- melli2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:51:11 -!- mellifluous has joined. 12:56:13 [wiki] [[Talk:RAGE!!!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39752&oldid=37831 * Malltog * (+575) 12:59:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:00:55 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:01:32 [wiki] [[Talk:Rand.Next()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39753&oldid=39516 * Malltog * (+248) 13:06:47 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:09:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:16:11 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:33:07 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:36:14 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:36:45 -!- ter2 has joined. 13:47:58 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:03:03 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:06:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:11:21 -!- vyv has joined. 14:13:45 -!- spiette has joined. 14:15:15 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:16:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:46:30 -!- mihow has joined. 14:47:02 -!- mellifluous has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:51:19 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 14:55:01 -!- lollo64it has joined. 15:07:24 -!- tertu has joined. 15:20:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:20:29 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:21:24 -!- 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shikhout has joined. 17:04:50 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:07:26 -!- kwertii has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:16:15 ADVICE 17:16:17 Do not climb trees with green bark 17:16:33 Thanks for the advice 17:16:48 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:16:57 I am down to zero clean pairs of trousers 17:20:32 I am in room number 404. 17:20:52 I keep not finding it and walking past the door. 17:26:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:27:59 Good thing it isn't 402 17:34:17 It's a hotel room, so it kind-of is. 17:34:34 For 403 I probably just wouldn't get the door open. 17:39:47 -!- password2 has joined. 17:41:00 -!- spiette has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:41:34 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:43:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:45:02 I feel pretty crap 17:49:53 -!- mihow has joined. 17:53:41 * Melvar learns of another -l pun: libottery. 17:58:27 -lol 17:58:50 -Lame -lib 17:59:47 ittle/libibrary.a ? 18:13:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:15:39 -!- Bike has joined. 18:16:57 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:20:21 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 18:27:16 newsham: I mean, that are actual libraries. 18:27:29 https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/3/17/525 "This feature encodes Oops messages into a QR barcode that is scannable by any device with a camera." 18:27:30 -!- mihow has joined. 18:30:09 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:32:45 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:33:26 -!- vyv_ has joined. 18:34:34 -!- vyv has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:35:05 eh 18:35:12 that is kind of neat 18:39:45 -!- mhi^ has joined. 18:40:06 yep 18:50:19 -!- ter2 has joined. 18:59:14 -!- yorick has joined. 19:14:48 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:19:07 -!- kwertii has joined. 19:23:08 -!- mihow has joined. 19:25:14 -!- conehead has joined. 19:36:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:38:56 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:47:16 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:47:30 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:52:08 -!- tertu3 has joined. 19:53:25 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:58:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 19:58:07 -!- vyv has joined. 19:59:04 -!- vyv_ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 19:59:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:01:35 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 454 seconds). 20:03:41 -!- mtve has joined. 20:06:56 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:07:06 `addquote I am in room number 404. I keep not finding it and walking past the door. 20:07:08 1203) I am in room number 404. I keep not finding it and walking past the door. 20:08:19 >_< 20:09:30 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 20:11:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:21:03 `quote 20:21:03 `quote 20:21:03 `quote 20:21:03 439) Phantom_Hoover: it is a hate so pure and... pumpkin seeds? 20:21:04 42) no Deewiant No?! I've been living a lie yep. Excuse me while I jump out of the window -> 20:21:04 423) My memory passed rest in peace sgeos memory 20:24:15 -!- M28_ has joined. 20:24:51 -!- jix_ has joined. 20:25:05 -!- subleq_ has joined. 20:25:16 fungot: pumpkin seeds? 20:25:17 FireFly: e405 program rejected for mental health reasons. icktemp on djgpp, where the preceding statement finishes executing. ( if an attempt is made to reverse-assign the same capital letters can be of either datatype ( that is `next'ed to and nor or ( which is not the while as a method of installing them). 20:25:43 ^style 20:25:43 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic* irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 20:26:06 the INTERCAL manual doesn't make for a good wordset, apparently 20:27:35 ^style irc 20:27:35 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 20:27:35 -!- subleq has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 20:27:35 -!- jix has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 20:27:35 fungot: þe olde irc style 20:27:35 FireFly: your client is broken." :) 20:27:35 -!- M28 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:27:53 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:36:12 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:45:41 [wiki] [[BF Joust strategies]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39754&oldid=39705 * Oj742 * (-119) 20:46:48 Is a group homomorphism what it sounds like 20:47:55 what do you think it sounds like 20:47:56 a homomorphism between groups? 20:49:00 A mapping, f, from a Group(+, G) to a Group (*, H) such that f(x) * f(y) = f(x + y)? 20:49:27 that would be correct. 20:49:48 and f(0) = 1 (in your notation) 20:49:50 but maybe that follows? 20:49:56 that follows. 20:49:58 according to wikipedia 20:49:59 kewl 20:50:16 a group homomorphism is just a functor 20:50:20 a group action is also just a functor 20:50:21 hth 20:50:24 kmc, I just used + and * because they are easy to write on a keyboard 20:50:31 shachaf, what is a group action 20:50:40 a functor hth 20:50:45 Also what is the standard acronym meaning "I would like a hth please" 20:50:59 iwlahp hth 20:51:05 i,i algebraists do it in groups 20:51:06 in particular a functor : G -> Set, where G is your group 20:51:24 "I want help"? 20:51:25 (represented as a category (groupoid) with one object) 20:51:30 just atlk like a fucking human being you fucking nerd 20:51:58 oerjan, tdh thx 20:52:01 Bicyclidine: o_O 20:52:02 Taneb: homomorphism for groups is just a special case of homomorphism for a universal algebra with arbitrary operations 20:52:03 Bicyclidine: :-( 20:52:25 it took me a second to realise "atlk" wasn't another obscure acronym 20:52:34 oerjan, imagine that I don't officially learn this until next year 20:52:41 God Damn It 20:53:03 -!- kmc has left. 20:53:32 Reading a textbook on Category Theory 20:53:50 Taneb: i don't think i _ever_ officially learned universal algebra hth 20:54:03 but it was so cool i had to pick up some 20:54:09 i don't think ever even learned regular algebra hth :'( 20:54:10 Am I right in thinking that matrix multiplication is an example of a semi-additive category? 20:54:46 Taneb: i suspect you can drop the semi 20:55:02 oerjan, I... can! 20:55:42 matrix multiplication is isomorphic to the category of finite-dimensional vector spaces 20:56:30 psh finite 20:57:00 ", and so we can alternatively define an additive category to be a semiadditive category having the property that every morphism has an additive inverse." 20:57:12 and matrices have negatives, q.e.d. 20:58:34 "The algebra of matrices over a ring, thought of as a category as described below, is also additive." 21:00:30 Taneb: actually strengthen that to "abelian category", i see nothing infinite in the definition of that either 21:01:07 "As special cases of the two previous examples: the category of vector spaces over a fixed field k is abelian, as is the category of finite-dimensional vector spaces over k." 21:01:27 oerjan, I'm not up to abelian categories 21:04:02 they're what you need to start doing homological algebra hth 21:04:42 (you'll probably _never_ get up to that *MWAHAHAHA*) 21:05:02 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:08:16 man electrical engineers really dig infintesimals, wtf 21:14:56 -!- Oj742 has joined. 21:17:13 -!- Oj742 has quit (Client Quit). 21:21:26 whoa, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-closed_sets_conjecture 21:22:59 that's... weird. 21:29:26 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:36:49 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:40:38 -!- yorick has joined. 21:46:14 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:50:02 -!- boily has joined. 21:51:52 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:55:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:05:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PROBABLY CHICKEN). 22:07:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Oh well). 22:07:40 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 22:07:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:11:58 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:15:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:21:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: And now, good night). 22:38:40 http://imgur.com/82wfP6h 22:42:14 oops. 22:43:53 i'm american, whats the problem 22:44:31 that looks correct :x 22:44:56 finland and norway are switched. 22:44:59 (i had to look it up) 22:44:59 Taneb : Close enough 22:45:45 -!- subleq_ has changed nick to subleq. 22:52:19 -!- tertu3 has joined. 22:55:19 To be fair, if you gave me a map of some random US state and its neighbours I wouldn't be able to tell whether two of the states' names were switched 22:55:40 Oh, I definitely wouldn't 22:55:40 although if I were annotating maps of US states I would probably look it up 22:55:46 Some parts of Europe I get wrong 22:55:55 Most counties of England I'd get wrong 22:56:07 i dont care about things outside of my bubble 22:56:07 "To my surprise, the M-function mex calls a Perl function, which parses (not calls!) a BAT file" help me 22:56:08 sue me 23:05:08 -!- ter2 has joined. 23:08:44 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:09:06 . o O ( Would next Tuesday be convenient for you? Yes? Great, see you in court then! ) 23:13:20 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:20:16 -!- tertu3 has joined. 23:22:36 -!- tertu has joined. 23:24:00 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:24:38 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:26:19 -!- shikhout has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:27:11 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:28:52 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:33:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:34:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:35:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:40:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:52:49 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:13 -!- aretecode has joined. 2014-06-07: 00:00:13 How many bombs would be required to destroy not only the entire Earth but damage much of the solar system? 00:01:09 http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/docs1/00329010.pdf godspeed, zzo 00:01:11 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:02:05 Hopefully they don't make such bomb 00:03:34 It won't load 00:04:07 It's a paper from the Manhattan Project about how many nukes you'd need to ignite the atmosphere. 00:04:12 of earth. 00:04:17 OK 00:33:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:35:07 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:38:23 -!- blitter64 has joined. 00:40:36 blitter64, are you bik 00:40:39 e 00:40:47 that is, are you bike 00:55:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 01:00:43 negatory 01:07:14 damn 01:07:22 bike are you Bike 01:07:29 unknown 01:13:03 I thin I might love npmjs. Shame about its security record though 01:15:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:25:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:47:20 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:11:16 Suppose your project a has dependencies on b and c. b has a depenedecy on z version 1, c has a dependency on z version 2. 02:11:19 npm can handle that. 02:12:15 can npm feed me cheesy potatoes? 02:13:07 Sgeo, why is that special? when you load dependencies like var localname = require("somefile"), it _should_ handle that 02:14:26 with no extra work 02:20:09 fowl: because a lot of languages don't work like that 02:20:20 I know Lua does, at least when used in nginx 02:20:59 lua and limbo from plan9 are the only others i know of 02:22:18 Now I have to learn Limbo, don't I 02:22:20 How does that loader choose the version to load? 02:23:12 The dependencies are installed in a subdirectory node_modules relative to the project. And those dependencies themselves have node_modules directories 02:23:13 etc. 02:23:23 So, a waste of space, but what's more important? 02:24:30 i wouldnt call that a waste of space lol 02:24:43 http://nodejs.org/api/modules.html#modules_loading_from_node_modules_folders 02:24:53 its a good thing to do, bundler does it for ruby 02:24:56 Well, it's easy to not have to deal with dependencies if you don't want any of the benefits of dependencies. 02:35:05 -!- conehead has joined. 02:37:22 Do you know what the 2D barcodes on bank statements are? Whoever I asked at the bank, said they didn't know their purpose. They are not a QR code; I can see that much at least. I can also see that it seems too small to encode all the data of the bank statement. 02:38:23 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39755&oldid=39750 * Zzo38 * (+49) 02:42:33 OF COURSE npm uses HTTP and not HTTPS 02:42:36 >:C 02:43:03 shame about its security record though 02:43:49 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7443861 02:55:31 Does cabal use http? 02:55:38 Someone in the node channel claimed so 02:56:13 -!- Nimbusil has joined. 03:05:16 -!- Nimbusil has quit. 03:18:31 <^v> `unidecode ▚ 03:18:31 ​[U+259A QUADRANT UPPER LEFT AND LOWER RIGHT] 03:26:34 [wiki] [[Talk:Rand.Next()]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39756&oldid=39753 * Malltog * (+0) Changed 'mush' to 'much' 04:18:13 "curl http://npmjs.org/install.sh | sh 04:18:29 what could possibly go wrong? pipe some web page directly to a shell, dont use https. no problem! 04:18:43 "I think the beauty of node.js, and a lot of other modern js technologies, is if you're one of the (majority) of developers out there who write just enough javascript to get back to their "real" code, then the first moment they start writing in node, they'll be forced to confront the fact that their code is horrible." 04:18:55 Maybe node will be helpful for me 04:18:56 modern js technologies 04:18:59 the saddest phrase 04:29:15 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:31:47 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:32:00 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:33:21 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:36:02 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:42:03 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:43:19 I have managed to fix SQLite to allow renaming views and to make EXPLAIN output containing "Program" instructions to include the name of the trigger program. Does anyone other than me would find such thing useful? 04:43:53 -!- vyv has joined. 04:45:43 -!- Burton has joined. 05:03:16 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: kwertii). 05:07:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:26:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:43:20 -!- not^v has joined. 05:44:09 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:52:42 -!- MoALTz has joined. 05:57:01 What happen if you extend a type system with types corresponding to equations of natural numbers and operations on them? 06:19:00 diophantines? 06:20:36 Like that, except that the value of variables are done by type variables 06:27:33 Does cabal use http? <-- yep. https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/936 06:27:54 @tell Sgeo Does cabal use http? <-- yep. https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/936 06:27:55 Consider it noted. 06:28:01 Thanks 06:28:22 they're not considering it very urgent, either :( 06:29:55 (also the person claiming an actual attack in that thread is a troll.) 06:30:41 they don't even have signatures. :( 06:32:49 -!- M28_ has changed nick to M28. 06:38:49 http://wtfjs.com/2013/02/12/obfuscated-fibonacci 06:42:55 wtfjs is itself a bit wtfy sometimes 06:43:27 http://wtfjs.com/2011/05/12/parseInt-is-not-eval 06:43:33 No shit, sherlock? 06:47:15 Sgeo: http://www.mathworks.com/help/matlab/ref/str2num.html 06:47:53 buh....wuh.... "Accelerating the pace of engineering and science"... into a wall, I assume 06:48:07 basically. 06:48:41 i guess it's because they wanted it to parse arrays and complexes and stuff. but didn't feel like moving out the parser. 06:48:45 Oh, str2double is safe 06:49:03 But still not great to not make it obvious that str2num is unsafe 06:49:30 well, that box warning is even more prominent in t he in-IDE docs. 06:49:45 i was looking for a number reader, found str2num, recoiled, and used str2double instead. 06:50:04 People aren't likely to use this language without an IDE? 06:50:10 I use Notepad++ for Javascript all the time 06:50:37 matlab? not its intended userbase, no 06:50:57 the IDE is actually pretty good, other than hanging when the listener does 06:51:40 Is its intended userbase likely to understand the warning? 06:51:49 And its implications? 06:52:08 nope 06:52:57 matlab is almost entirely used for very domain-specific research code, so it's not a security dealie or nothin 06:54:44 still funny as shit mind 06:54:44 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:55:12 -!- edwardk has joined. 07:00:52 [wiki] [[RAGE!!!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39757&oldid=39751 * Oerjan * (-169) Fix the blank lines 07:07:08 [wiki] [[Talk:Rand.Next()]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39758&oldid=39756 * Oerjan * (+43) unsigned 07:13:49 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Onecode]] to [[Onecode (Iconmaster)]]: Name now duplicated 07:13:49 [wiki] [[Special:Log/move]] move * Oerjan * moved [[Talk:Onecode]] to [[Talk:Onecode (Iconmaster)]]: Name now duplicated 07:16:11 [wiki] [[Onecode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39763&oldid=39760 * Oerjan * (+47) IIRC this is our second disambiguation page ever 07:17:42 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:21:27 maybe we should add a category for disambiguation pages :> 07:21:56 [wiki] [[Talk:Onecode]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39764&oldid=39762 * Oerjan * (+34) I don't think this should be a redirect, make it a text link instead 07:22:19 myname: maybe a _tiny_ bit early. 07:22:33 also, what happens if i dedide to make two languages by the same name 07:22:52 "this may be: Foo (myname) or Foo (myname)" 07:24:37 the second would then be Foo (myname cannot name things properly I) 07:24:49 hth 07:24:54 challenge considered 07:26:16 the third would be Foo (myname still cannot name things properly so we banned him) hth 07:26:26 possibly with the hth included 07:26:53 (at which point elliott bans me) 07:27:45 i just thought of a language that uses "foo hth" as "return foo" and twh as a function call... 07:28:09 sounds inevitable when you put it that way. 07:28:20 why? 07:29:08 ok it sounds inevitable whether or not you put it that way hth 07:29:59 * oerjan considers neither confirming nor denying that he planned this all along. 07:30:11 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 07:30:50 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:32:02 okay, next idea: 3 languages called VVV, WV and VW, what wouldn't be disambiguous AT ALL! 07:32:38 ꙮ KAY 07:33:50 i do think banning for 3 languages with the same name is harsh, though 07:34:23 well it's to nip it in the bud 07:38:21 -!- password2 has joined. 07:39:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:42:03 also, i am going to make a small presentation about esolangs. i thought about 3 main categories: senseless, art, math 07:42:07 [wiki] [[Talk:RAGE!!!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39765&oldid=39752 * Oerjan * (+213) no space left 07:42:10 any suggestions/objections? 07:43:01 you're missing pure evil hth 07:43:18 oerjan: do you have an example language for that? 07:43:21 malbolge? 07:44:25 that would be one. although if you look in Category:Shameful you might find some others. 07:44:56 :D 07:44:56 (disclaimer: there is no Category:Shameful hth) 07:45:05 there should be! 07:45:16 i'd put german in there 07:45:25 no, we have clearly decided that it should not exist hth 07:45:30 although i will list it at senseless 07:45:41 what 07:46:41 i suggest you visit the page for it for some clarity why it doesn't exist hth 07:49:37 that doesn't make much sense 07:50:08 -!- impomatic has left. 07:50:13 neither do the languages in that category 07:50:37 also you may be meta-humoristically challenged 07:52:02 and thus in fine company 07:55:10 i do like meta-humor. at least that part of it that i understand 07:57:48 A category can contain files even though the category file itself is not exist 07:57:51 So, it is OK 07:58:45 Describe what you plan to make in presentation? I am not sure such three are sufficient category. But, perhaps INTERCAL should also be included? 07:59:50 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:20 maybe i should add "humour" as a fourth one 08:01:17 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:02:16 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 08:05:16 -!- ski_ has joined. 08:06:07 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 08:06:07 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 08:06:31 -!- yiyus has joined. 08:06:52 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:10:44 question is: at which point? 08:13:24 zzo38: where would you put INTERCAL? 08:14:13 I don't know!!! 08:15:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 08:25:08 okay! 08:25:27 i could add a category INTERCAL :p 08:40:12 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:41:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:44:23 -!- password2 has joined. 08:55:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:58:36 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 08:58:36 -!- skarn has quit (*.net *.split). 08:58:36 -!- hubs has 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*.split). 09:02:04 -!- trout has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:03:57 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:04:34 -!- vyv has joined. 09:04:34 -!- mtve has joined. 09:04:34 -!- monotone has joined. 09:04:34 -!- hogeyui has joined. 09:04:34 -!- nortti has joined. 09:04:43 -!- variable has joined. 09:17:11 -!- password2 has joined. 09:26:17 [wiki] [[Onecode]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39766&oldid=39763 * GermanyBoy * (+14) added template 09:31:07 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 09:33:44 -!- variable has joined. 09:46:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:46:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 09:46:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:04:39 -!- edwardk has joined. 10:08:34 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:10:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 10:10:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 10:10:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 10:14:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:16:37 -!- augur has joined. 10:18:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:24:30 -!- password2 has joined. 10:25:57 -!- mhi^ has joined. 10:26:00 -!- mhi^ has quit (Changing host). 10:26:00 -!- mhi^ has joined. 10:31:49 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:35:24 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:42:58 -!- edwardk has joined. 10:55:52 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:00:02 Aaaah 11:00:26 I am scared that I am too incompetent to do things I want to do so I find myself unable to even try 11:02:00 -!- edwardk has joined. 11:02:18 Also today was a terrible day to wear shorts 11:06:27 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:08:31 Dunning-Krueger is calling! 11:11:41 mhi^, this is something I have never even attempted before 11:11:49 So I probably am going to be incompetent 11:11:53 (wig styling) 11:13:30 Dunning-Kruger does not apply 11:13:35 Taneb: I must make you a credible wigmaker — and quickly. 11:14:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:14:38 Taneb: There's tawny and there's golden saffron, / There's flaxen and there's blonde, / There's coarse and fine, / There's straight and curly, / There's gray, there's white, / There's ash, there's pearly, / There's corn-yellow, / Buff and ochre and / Straw and apricot... 11:16:05 With finer textures, / Ash looks fairer, / Which makes it rare, / But flaxen's cheaper... 11:16:22 i think this works better as a duet 11:16:27 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:19:04 I am afraid I do not know my lyrics 11:19:41 your lyrics are mostly the same except shifted forward a bit 11:20:05 also i say things like "repeat that. repeat that!" 11:30:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:31:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:51:14 -!- blitter64 has joined. 11:51:50 -!- yorick has joined. 12:05:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:25:19 > :t plusCommutative 12:25:21 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 12:25:23 ( :t plusCommutative 12:25:24 Prelude.Nat.plusCommutative : (left : Nat) -> (right : Nat) -> left + right = right + left 12:26:01 zzo38: Something like ↑? 12:37:02 -!- lorenzo_ has joined. 12:39:33 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:47:33 Procrastinatiiiiooon 12:47:49 nation of procastination 12:48:28 -!- blitter64 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:06:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:12:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:16:13 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:16:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:18:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:20:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:36:13 -!- lollo64it has joined. 13:36:37 -!- shikhout has joined. 13:39:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:39:41 -!- lorenzo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:31:01 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:40:17 -!- boily has joined. 15:00:03 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:00:43 The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later. 15:04:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:04:48 -!- Froox has joined. 15:19:43 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:29:19 -!- tertu has joined. 15:43:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LAPSED CHICKEN). 15:55:22 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:57:36 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:00:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:04:30 -!- Sorella has joined. 16:25:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 16:27:20 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:28:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:28:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 16:28:50 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:36:32 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:39:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:39:48 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 17:03:16 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 17:03:30 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:09:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:11:27 -!- Bike has joined. 17:12:17 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:14:00 -!- lollo64it has joined. 17:15:28 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 17:15:43 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:18:02 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Aithecomputerguy * New user account 17:24:42 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:41:52 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:42:18 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:46:32 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:48:41 [wiki] [[Talk:Burn]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39767&oldid=20474 * Aithecomputerguy * (+1696) 17:49:36 [wiki] [[Talk:Burn]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39768&oldid=39767 * Aithecomputerguy * (+0) 17:50:10 [wiki] [[Talk:Burn]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39769&oldid=39768 * Aithecomputerguy * (+0) A guess. 17:50:29 [wiki] [[User:Aithecomputerguy]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39770 * Aithecomputerguy * (+3) Set up user page. 17:55:02 [wiki] [[User:Aithecomputerguy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39771&oldid=39770 * Aithecomputerguy * (+10) Added my first esoteric language 18:16:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:27:31 -!- MDude has joined. 18:48:49 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:49:36 -!- ^v has joined. 19:01:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:05:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:05:24 what's up with all those stupid programming language names that are common words. http://www.splasmata.com/?p=2798 has me wanting to duckduckgo "swift speed" to get a second opinion which obviously is doomed to failure. 19:05:59 I don't really think is necessarily so bad 19:07:10 In case of some that have Wikipedia articles, you can type in the name and then (programming language) and probably it will find it. 19:07:38 i'm annoyed that this is going to outdo the birds 19:07:44 birds > programming languages 19:07:59 I do not understand you. 19:08:04 But Bike 19:08:06 What about 19:08:13 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy%20Bird 19:08:37 there is a species of bird called the "swift", zzo 19:08:58 to mock a mockingbird (hmm. I should read that some time) 19:09:00 there's no species called Lazy Bird, and i'm fond of to mock, so it's all good 19:09:16 O, that's what you mean. 19:09:17 -!- augur has joined. 19:09:25 zzo38: Hey, by the types corresponding to equations of natural numbers, did you mean like: 19:09:27 But, many words are having multiple meanings. 19:09:32 ( :t plusCommutative 19:09:32 Prelude.Nat.plusCommutative : (left : Nat) -> (right : Nat) -> left + right = right + left 19:10:09 Melvar: Yes, something like that, but without the (left : Nat) -> (right : Nat) -> at front 19:10:18 zzo38: you're right of course that this is no more than a minor nuisance. 19:11:01 (and it has been done before with BASIC) 19:11:48 ( \left : Nat, right : Nat => left + right = right + left 19:11:48 \left => \right => plus left right = plus right left : Nat -> Nat -> Type 19:11:58 Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought 19:12:14 zzo38: Like that? 19:12:40 Melvar: I guess so (but I also don't entirely undertsand such program) 19:12:44 That suggests Okasaki's "Functional Data Structure" for "To Mock a Mockingbird", which I find amusing. 19:13:14 ( (\left : Nat, right : Nat => left + right = right + left) 11 23 19:13:14 34 = 34 : Type 19:13:25 ok. 19:13:40 hmm. "Purely Functional Data Structures" is the right title. 19:14:39 zzo38: It’s a type synonym that’s indexed by two natural numbers, defined as the equality of the two numbers’ addition both ways. 19:15:08 Melvar: O, OK, yes I think that is like what I mean 19:15:15 ( 7 : 34 19:15:15 (input):1:3: error: expected: "$", 19:15:15 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 19:15:15 "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 19:15:15 "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 19:15:15 ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 19:15:24 i wanna see a value of type 34. 19:16:02 ( 7 : (34 : Type) 19:16:02 (input):1:3: error: expected: "$", 19:16:02 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 19:16:02 "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 19:16:02 "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 19:16:02 ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 19:16:10 no, wait, you use the, right 19:16:13 ( the 34 7 19:16:13 Can't resolve type class Num (fromInteger 34) 19:16:22 bah. 19:16:25 ( the (34 : type) 7 19:16:25 (input):1:9: error: expected: "$", 19:16:26 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 19:16:26 "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 19:16:26 "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 19:16:26 ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 19:16:39 ( the (34 : Type) 7 19:16:39 (input):1:9: error: expected: "$", 19:16:39 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 19:16:39 "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 19:16:39 "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 19:16:39 ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 19:16:45 alright sorry. 19:16:46 Bike: Natural numbers are not types. 19:17:01 You can just index types with anything, not just other types. 19:17:02 oh the type is actually 34 = 34, huh. 19:17:05 > :doc (=) 19:17:08 :1:1: parse error on input ‘:’ 19:17:12 ( :doc (=) 19:17:12 Data type = : ({A0} : Type) -> ({B0} : Type) -> A -> B -> Type 19:17:12 The propositional equality type. A proof that x = y. 19:17:12 To use such a proof, pattern-match on it, and the two equal things will then need to be the same pattern. 19:17:12 Note: Idris's equality type is heterogeneous, which means that it is possible to state equalities between values of potentially different types. This is 19:17:12 sometimes referred to in the literature as "John Major" equality.↵… 19:17:27 ( :doc refl 19:17:27 refl : x = x 19:17:27 A proof that x in fact equals x. To construct this, you must have already shown that both sides are in fact equal. 19:17:27 Arguments: 19:17:27 (implicit) {A0} : Type -- the type at which the equality is proven 19:17:27 (implicit) {x0} : A -- the element shown to be equal to itself. 19:17:31 ( the (34 = 34) 7 19:17:31 Can't resolve type class Num (fromInteger 34 = fromInteger 34) 19:17:50 ( the (34 = 34) refl 19:17:50 refl : 34 = 34 19:18:12 The only constructor of (=) is refl. 19:19:28 is `the` a bit like the :: syntax in Haskell, except it being a function and whatnot? 19:19:40 ( :doc the 19:19:41 the : (a : Type) -> (x : a) -> a 19:19:41 Manually assign a type to an expression. 19:19:41 Arguments: 19:19:41 a : Type -- the type to assign 19:19:41 x : a -- the element to get the type 19:21:44 FireFly: It’s a bit like saying “(id :: Foo -> Foo) foo”. You’re passing the type explicitly to a version of the identity function. 19:21:52 ( the Integer 19:21:52 id : Integer -> Integer 19:22:13 Apparenty it’s even defined that way. Huh. 19:22:18 ( the Nat 19:22:18 id : Nat -> Nat 19:22:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:22:55 ( :src the -- probably doesn't work, but worth a try 19:22:55 Command "src" not permitted. 19:23:07 I should learn Idris 19:23:54 the type value = (the ((->) type type)) value, obviously 19:24:43 ( the (Nat -> Nat) id 42 19:24:43 42 : Nat 19:24:48 `addquote The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later. 19:24:50 1204) The people of Procrasti hereby resolve to lodge a formal complaint with Taneb and nortti about their ridicule of Procasti's glorious nation... later. 19:26:08 ( (\t : Type => t -> t) Integer 19:26:09 Integer -> Integer : Type 19:26:15 nice, nice 19:26:31 "the _ = id" heh 19:26:55 ( the _ 1 19:26:55 1 : Integer 19:27:06 FireFly: http://eb.host.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/writings/idris-tutorial.pdf ← Official tutorial in case you were serious. 19:28:47 Thanks 19:29:33 * Melvar finds a thing that has failed to be updated in it. 19:29:49 [wiki] [[Warpdrive]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39772 * Aithecomputerguy * (+2330) Created page with "[[Warpdrive]] is a language created by [[User:Aithecomputerguy|aithecomputerguy]] that is very loosely based off of cellular automata. It's name comes from the idea of going f..." 19:31:17 -!- not^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:34:10 -!- not^v has joined. 19:39:42 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 19:43:18 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:44:02 -!- tertu has joined. 19:48:39 -!- tertu_ has joined. 19:48:56 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:58:02 -!- not^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:01:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:02:00 -!- not^v has joined. 20:02:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:15:48 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:23:09 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:38:24 -!- conehead has joined. 20:50:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for CDOP Star Wars watching | SPIKE THE VOID | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 21:08:39 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:09:38 -!- ski_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:10:40 -!- ski has joined. 21:15:27 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 21:16:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:22:04 -!- tertu_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:32:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 21:39:50 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 21:42:22 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 21:46:27 -!- TodPunk has joined. 21:52:22 -!- tertu has joined. 21:56:00 O, they use Famitracker. It can be compiled into NSF too 21:56:19 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:00:34 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:01:58 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:04:52 -!- Official_Pants has joined. 22:04:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:05:26 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:05:35 I cant make an account on esolangs.org 22:06:52 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Official Pants * New user account 22:07:20 Wait, It worked. Never mind! 22:16:39 -!- not^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:03 -!- Official_Pants has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:29:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 22:37:08 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:39:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:42:47 -!- conehead has joined. 22:43:27 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 23:14:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:16:10 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:36:34 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:39:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:45:36 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:46:31 -!- tertu has joined. 2014-06-08: 00:11:17 -!- boily has joined. 00:15:29 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:29:29 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:31:55 -!- vyv has joined. 00:34:29 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 00:34:40 @massages-loud 00:34:41 You don't have any messages 00:34:55 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:41:40 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:46:25 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:39 -!- tertu has joined. 01:01:49 Can you know how to play monstery-poker? 01:02:20 zzo38: I don't know. 01:22:29 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: sleep time). 01:26:18 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:31:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:38:12 ZenMagnets don't understand money 01:38:13 "The value of Bitcoin doesn't come from government trust (like dollars) or chemical properties (like gold), but instead from mathematical properties of cryptography." 01:38:49 it still amuses me to think of bitcoin as based on the labor theory of value 01:51:42 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:55:23 -!- lollo64it has joined. 02:04:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:08:27 -!- vyv has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: APPROXIMATIVE CHICKEN). 02:12:41 -!- vyv has joined. 02:19:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 02:25:46 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:42:23 -!- ^v has joined. 02:55:45 Monstery-poker game is game many difference from ordinary poker game. In case you lose, then they are allowed to eat your blood, and they are also allowed to eat your money. Also, sometimes there is more aces than other cards. And other differences. 03:02:58 zzo38: Who are they? 03:03:18 Your opponent, I suppose? Who else? 03:10:38 My opponents have rarely eaten my blood before. 04:03:22 Not to be confused with Monastery-poker. 04:04:27 Hmm somsome messages me some time ago. 04:04:38 And now I sleep. 04:04:45 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:09:19 *someone messaged 04:12:07 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:20:34 http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/27l0tp/a_cycle_within_a_tree_you_thought_that_was/ 04:29:11 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 04:34:39 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:42:00 Sgeo: trees can't have cycles 04:42:08 image is a lie 04:51:25 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:00:38 Is more information available of BANCSTAR? 05:04:59 -!- tertu has joined. 05:06:28 I can guess now what some things mean by looking at the printout. 05:06:38 However, only a few pages are available. 05:09:31 I can see that 2999,,, seems to be starting a new "page", and that jump targets are page numbers. It appear that command 3001 is for block conditions, which probably are not allowed to be nested. 05:11:14 After the "goto page" instruction at the end of page 1, there is a 1254 instruction, which has no description. 05:11:18 Do you know what it means? 05:16:00 It seems that each number in the program is limited to a signed 16-bit integer and that several strange things are done to ensure it will fit. 05:26:21 Commands with 1 in the ten thousands place seems to be some assignments 05:30:33 I might be willing to try to help them with it 05:35:51 -!- not^v has joined. 05:35:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:37:09 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:37:12 -!- constant has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 05:39:14 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:39:39 -!- not^v has joined. 05:44:04 -!- variable has joined. 05:44:50 I do not know why line 00061 is "3000,192,1," instead of "3000,193,1," 05:47:44 Sometimes it seems variables are assigned the value they already have. Is this supposed to force the corresponding field on the screen to be refreshed? 05:48:01 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 05:52:06 sgeo: hah 06:01:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:02:01 Actually I can guess what the 1254 instruction which has no description might be for. Perhaps it is to cause something to be displayed the screen; maybe these instructions are a prompt for variable 1254 and it is displayed even if the prompt is not executed. 06:06:26 I can see the code that says "I'm not too worried about revealing a lot of proprietary information here, as only about ten people in the world can read this code". Well, now I can figure out part of it! 06:10:32 zzo38, the eleventh guy 06:11:32 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:20:24 Variable 1547 is the "pause flag", which is being cleared a lot, although I am not quite sure of its purpose. 06:26:23 See: http://reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/station/2266/tarpit/bancstar.html I don't know what instruction 9301 is supposed to mean, but it seems like it might be important. 06:32:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:46:15 [wiki] [[Cupid]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39773&oldid=8549 * Rdebath * (+55) Wayback machine pointer 06:50:27 oh we actually do have a disambig template 06:52:31 [wiki] [[Cupid]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39774&oldid=39773 * Oerjan * (+0) /* External resources */ template syntax 06:55:58 OK then you can use that one 07:04:17 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:11:07 -!- lollo64it has joined. 07:16:24 [wiki] [[Warpdrive]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39775&oldid=39772 * Oerjan * (+207) format, and I'm not convinced by that TC claim 07:19:34 im proud of this https://gist.github.com/fowlmouth/8cc9ee26bcf509b5fea5 07:25:04 zzo38: someone already did 07:26:34 damn radiator stopped working 07:27:33 seems to be no water in it at all. 07:27:55 i hope i've managed to close the plug right if it comes back 07:28:57 although if it's like last year, they'll need to do an annoying simultaneous airing of all the apartments "simultaneously" 07:29:18 (annoying because they're ENTERING MY APARTMENT dammit) 07:30:05 -!- tromp__ has joined. 07:30:21 * oerjan wonders if they've turned off the system on purpose, or if it's just a side effect of all the radiators being off during the heatwave 07:31:55 it's not like anyone's actually told me. i wonder if there's an intranet website i'm supposed to know about. 07:32:55 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:32:56 (i'm worried about the plug because it didn't seem to actually stop turning) 07:37:36 [wiki] [[Talk:Burn]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39776&oldid=39769 * Oerjan * (+52) dates are _not_ optional hth 07:45:09 -!- conehead has joined. 08:09:13 burn kinda reminds me of that language that will be specified in the future 08:09:30 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:21:42 i'd be surprised if that guess is right, as it doesn't fit my definition of cellular automaton. 08:22:17 but i'll wait for ais523 08:32:52 what was that graph rewriting language? 08:33:36 eodermdrome? 08:34:29 yeah 08:34:42 i fail to memorize that name 08:36:47 -!- lollo64it has joined. 08:38:06 -!- lollo64it has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:45:00 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 08:45:31 -!- lollo64it has joined. 08:57:12 -!- mhi^ has joined. 08:57:28 -!- edwardk has joined. 09:15:39 -!- password2 has joined. 09:29:53 BANCStar 09:29:55 ok.... 09:42:16 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:47:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:47:58 zzo38: Do you have actual documentation about BANCStar? 10:00:22 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:07:35 -!- Sorella has joined. 10:20:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:21:02 "As your post stands, there is no baby to throw out, and your bathtub is only a small bucket of gas direct from your anus." 10:21:04 -!- heroux has joined. 10:22:02 just 7 days until r/physics can theoretically get a new moderator... 10:24:12 um that sounds like i meant that comment should be deleted, it was actually a relatively brilliant flame of a crackpot. 10:25:30 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:26:46 -!- heroux has joined. 10:39:59 -!- edwardk has joined. 10:41:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:48:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:48:47 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:50:08 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:54:30 -!- heroux has joined. 10:57:21 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:00:27 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:21:33 -!- nortti has changed nick to ittron. 11:22:54 -!- ittron has changed nick to nortti. 11:30:27 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:35:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:36:40 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:38:40 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:39:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:40:13 are there other cool programming games besides space chem/robozzle/rubicon/manufactoria? 11:44:15 bfjoust 11:44:45 Half Life??? 11:44:47 well, okay, but thats not a kind of "here is a level, solve it" game 11:44:51 Slereah_: what 11:45:01 IT IS THE BEST GAME ALL CATEGORY 11:45:02 :D 11:45:09 Or what about just minecraft 11:45:15 With redstone circuits 11:45:19 Slereah_: nah, dwarf fortress 11:45:30 DF has the hydrolic compooters yeah 11:45:49 But then GOBLINS 11:45:57 Goblins are the worstvirus 11:46:44 Minecraft with ComputerCraft installed? 11:48:49 What about C 11:48:54 C is the best game! 11:49:32 it lacks a good level structure, though 11:51:27 -!- password2 has joined. 11:56:10 Well first you do the .h, then the .c, then preprocessing, then compilation, then linking 11:56:14 And you win the execution 11:57:18 Or you win by getting executed. 11:57:22 You never know with C. 11:57:44 Game Over : Segfault 11:58:30 i am not impressed 11:59:47 myname: Try http://www.kongregate.com/games/krispykrem/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-people 12:00:20 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:01:41 FreeFull: oh, i knew that, i never solved power on reset, though 12:01:57 Use the gate switching delay 12:03:32 my bigger problem is to make it go down, but i just got an idea 12:06:54 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:17 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:24:59 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:27:46 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 12:35:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:35:54 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:36:32 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 12:43:49 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:45:21 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 12:46:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:48:08 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:50:49 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:55:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:07:20 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:08:36 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:08:47 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:09:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:15:24 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:15:36 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 13:18:36 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 13:22:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:23:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 13:24:39 -!- yorick has joined. 13:29:15 -!- function has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 13:33:39 -!- variable has joined. 13:40:53 -!- variable has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:43:40 -!- variable has joined. 13:46:31 -!- variable has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 13:47:04 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 13:49:10 -!- variable has joined. 13:50:06 hmm. I still heve to find a use for n gates (pnp transistors). there's no GND but surely that doesn't make them completely useless? In the meantime what do you think of http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/4andor.png ? 13:51:49 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhinlydeath. 13:52:51 -!- shikhinlydeath has changed nick to shikhin. 13:55:51 -!- not^v has joined. 13:59:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:07:00 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:13:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:25:18 ah. found an (obvious in retorspect) use for pnp transistors. 14:25:52 -!- password2 has joined. 14:34:17 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:34:34 -!- not^v has joined. 14:36:39 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:37:58 -!- not^v has quit (Client Quit). 14:41:56 and this implausible design: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/4andor2.png 14:55:34 It'd be nice if it allowed diodes 14:55:57 You have to use gates instead 14:56:21 Interesting design 15:00:15 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:01:38 gates are way to easy, aren't they? 15:01:58 although, i'd probably enjoy a game based on funciton 15:15:52 and the reset thing would be much harder without pnp transistors, I think. 15:16:17 -!- Quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 15:16:25 -!- Quintopia has joined. 15:16:44 int-e: what'd you do? 15:17:31 http://node-os.com/ 15:17:35 myname: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/reset.png 15:17:51 I guess an OS that uses npm (as suggested by that piece of text), but not node.js for anything else but that, was too much to hope for? 15:18:28 int-e: the hell 15:19:43 What tool is that? 15:20:03 FireFly: http://www.kongregate.com/games/krispykrem/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-people 15:20:47 oh, fun 15:22:59 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:29:28 -!- lorenzo_ has joined. 15:29:48 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:30:55 zzo38: If you find decent documentation about BANCStar I'd be interested 15:31:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:31:47 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:42:10 -!- lorenzo__ has joined. 15:44:58 -!- lorenzo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:55:36 -!- lollo64it has joined. 16:05:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:10:44 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:20:19 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:21:19 mroman: Yes, although I don't know if there is any. Something says it is "undocumented" 16:21:44 -!- vyv has joined. 16:29:09 well 16:29:15 the manufacturer gotta have a docu 16:29:23 at least 16:29:54 -!- password2 has joined. 16:35:08 but I'm not sure whether they lost it or will publish it 16:39:00 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:44:37 I tried to email them a long time ago, no response 16:45:01 I don't know if I even emailed the right place 16:47:24 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:48:35 -!- augur has joined. 16:49:06 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:53:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:57:38 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:59:17 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:59:19 http://i.imgur.com/vilevsu.png was my solution for reset 17:02:08 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 17:02:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:03:32 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:03:49 -!- lorenzo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:06:48 Sgeo: You really asked them for documentation? 17:07:39 WP says they are called Broadway & Seymour now 17:08:42 if they even still exist 17:09:17 As of July 18, 2001, The Broadway & Seymour Group was acquired by WebTone Technologies, Inc. 17:09:22 ic 17:10:18 As of September 2, 2003, WebTone Technologies, Inc. was acquired by Fidelity Information Services, Inc. 17:10:27 getting closer :D 17:12:04 ah. FIS is a company that still exists at least 17:13:01 Sgeo: Did you write to the FIS or to whom did you write? 17:19:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:21:14 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:21:41 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest12152. 17:22:13 -!- tswett has joined. 17:22:23 Yo. 17:22:24 -!- Guest12152 has changed nick to shikhout. 17:22:29 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 17:22:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:22:47 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:23:54 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 17:24:36 -!- realzies has joined. 17:27:37 I don't expect any documentation for the instruction code to exist, although there may be documentation for the screen generator, which might help too. 17:30:00 So I wrote a senior thesis and my advisor says I should put it on the arXiv. I wonder if I really should or not. 17:30:22 There aren't any new results in it. 17:30:32 why the fuck not, imo 17:32:24 myname: zachtronics industries has some more of them 17:32:58 "Ruckingenur" and "The Codex of Alchemical Engineering" are fun! 17:33:03 mroman: I emailed moreinformation@fisglobal.com 17:33:45 That was around 2011 17:33:58 maybe they're still working on their reply 17:37:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:38:07 Try asking whoever put it in GitHub; maybe they know some things. 17:38:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:39:07 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 17:39:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:40:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:41:28 I'm looking at Wikipedia's list of mathematical coincidences. I think the most compelling one is that pi^3 is about 0.006 more than an integer. 17:41:55 So pi^3 - 31 is a pretty small number. 17:42:01 I didn't see that article, but I will look 17:43:27 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:43:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:59:10 "pi^4 + pi^5 \approx e^6 within 0.000 005%" wowww 18:02:26 now get an exact one, so we can learn if they're algebraically dependent once and for all 18:03:16 Is that unknown? 18:06:50 tswett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_independence#Algebraic_independence_of_known_constants 18:06:52 > pi^4 + pi^5 - (exp 1)^6 18:06:54 -1.7673451168320753e-5 18:07:08 not bad 18:07:20 "It is not even known if pi + e is irrational." 18:07:20 tswett: yes, bizarrely 18:07:22 Gdi. 18:07:44 there's a lot like that. whether euler-mascheroni is irrational is also unknown, &c 18:07:59 Do we know a power series for pi where the ratio between successive terms approaches 0? 18:08:39 And where the terms are all rational numbers. 18:09:26 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/f/8/4/f844df0b56253162e6aed16eed56167b.png shrug 18:09:41 -!- tromp has joined. 18:10:15 * tswett puts his glasses on. 18:10:36 640320^(3/2) isn't rational, is it? 18:10:53 Nope, it isn't. 18:12:17 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:13:11 Gee whiz, it's, like, hyper geometric 18:14:07 > pi^4 + pi^5 - exp 6 18:14:08 -1.767345128200759e-5 18:14:15 Did I say "power series"? I meant "series". 18:14:30 There's gotta be a word for numbers that can be written as a series of rational numbers where the ratio between successive terms approaches 0. 18:14:32 ok good i was confused. 18:14:47 I think they're all irrational and closed under addition. 18:14:53 > (pi^4 + pi^5 - exp 6) - (pi^4 + pi^5 - (exp 1)^6) 18:14:55 -1.1368683772161603e-13 18:15:04 then, http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/4/5/845a6038420113e231a6f89b75524680.png 18:15:17 oh, except q = e^pi, nvm 18:15:26 -!- conehead has joined. 18:15:33 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/8/b/b/8bb0c0c46e24bb426817c4f2a71bdf48.png oh right. there you go. 18:15:37 dunno about the ratio bit tho 18:17:44 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:17:49 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:18:18 since that gets you digits i guess the ratio is about 1/16, oops 18:18:37 Sounds likely. 18:19:47 -!- vyv has joined. 18:20:30 Bike_: That's the formula most suitable for calculating pi in a power-of-two base 18:20:39 So perfect for binary or hexadecimal 18:20:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:20:41 yes thank you 18:20:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:20:50 I was in fact already aware of that 18:21:05 I think there is one for base 10 too 18:21:19 there isn't 18:21:27 I think it's neat how you can calculate any digit of pi without calculating the others 18:21:34 well.. I just wrote to fisglobal 18:21:40 let's hope for the best :) 18:26:11 Anyway, I doubt we're going to come across a series of rational numbers for pi where the ratio approaches zero. 18:27:18 Seeing as how that would imply that pi + e is irrational. 18:28:19 what about 3 + 0.14 + 0.001592 + 0.00000065358979 + ... 18:28:32 Uhh. 18:28:58 You're a genius, mate. 18:29:05 Spawnkiller 18:29:11 Dang, I think I can prove that 2/3 is irrational. 18:29:24 Observe: 2/3 = 0.6 + 0.066 + 0.0006666 + 0.000000066666666 + ... 18:30:41 i don't get why this is supposedly a sufficient condition for irrationality! 18:30:47 qed 18:30:57 Fourier's proof of the irrationality of e. 18:31:01 It obviously generalizes. 18:31:13 Irrationality isn't too hard to prove 18:31:22 At least if you allow proof by contradiction 18:31:31 Slereah_: I'll pay you twenty bucks to prove that pi + e is irrational. 18:31:38 Yeah, the hard one is proving 2/3 isn't real 18:31:41 Well MOST OF THE TIME 18:31:50 But 2/3 is real :o 18:31:58 Only in your mind 18:31:59 It's part of Q which is automatically in R! 18:32:03 How do you know that 0 ≠ 3? 18:32:13 I use the Peano axioms 18:32:18 Or Von Neumann integers 18:32:20 Hmmm. 18:32:20 or whatever 18:32:24 > 2 / 3 * 3 == 2 18:32:26 True 18:32:28 or MY THINKING CAP 18:32:35 Or my gumption 18:32:37 > 2 / 3 * 3 == (2 :: Double) 18:32:39 True 18:32:59 > 2 / 7 * 7 == (2 :: Double) 18:33:01 True 18:33:10 > 2 / 163 * 163 == (2 :: Double) 18:33:11 True 18:33:33 I really would have expected rounding error to kick in at some point there. 18:33:54 > [k | k<-[1..], recip k * k /= 1] 18:33:56 can't find file: L.hs 18:34:02 > [k | k<-[1..], recip k * k /= 1] 18:34:04 [49.0,98.0,103.0,107.0,161.0,187.0,196.0,197.0,206.0,214.0,237.0,239.0,249.0... 18:34:35 > 2 / 49 * 49 == (2 :: Double) 18:34:36 False 18:35:21 -!- edwardk has joined. 18:35:33 Okay, proof by contradiction. Suppose that 2/3 is rational. 18:35:37 Floating point inaccuracies 18:35:45 tswett: Ok 18:35:48 Then there must exist integers a and b such that 2/3 = a/b. 18:35:56 Yes 18:35:59 Without loss of generality, let's assume that b = 3. 18:36:04 Yes 18:36:37 Now, we have this series for 2/3: 0.6 + 0.066 + 0.0006666 + 0.000000066666666 + ... 18:37:11 The terms are rational numbers with denominators 10, 1000, 10000000, and so on. 10^(2^n-1) or whatever. 18:37:16 Yeah 18:38:00 Now, consider the... third partial sum of this series, I guess. Which is 0.6666666. 18:38:22 6666666/10000000 18:38:43 Multiplying this by 10000000, we get 6666666, and then the rest of the series is like 0.66666666 + 0.000000006666666666666666 + ... 18:38:56 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 18:39:01 Yes 18:39:17 Now, is 2/3 * 10000000 an integer? 18:39:29 Let's assume that 2/3 * 10000000 is an integer. 18:39:32 -!- edwardk has joined. 18:39:41 I don't think so 18:40:00 Then the difference between 2/3 * 10000000 and 6666666 must be an integer, too, so the rest of the series has to converge to an integer. 18:40:08 But the rest of the series clearly converges to something between 0 and 1. 18:40:11 This is a contradiction. 18:40:29 We have, therefore, proved that 2/3 * 10000000 is not an integer. 18:40:53 Do you have a proof that the series converges to something between 0 and 1? 18:41:13 Quod non erat demonstrandum. 18:41:19 FreeFull: that's an open problem. 18:41:20 I know that it does, but just stating that isn't rigorous 18:41:58 "A new proof that 83 is prime" http://cr.yp.to/talks/2003.03.23/slides.pdf 18:41:58 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:42:30 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest98952. 18:43:01 -!- Guest98952 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:43:30 How about a proof 2 is prime? 18:43:40 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:44:15 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 18:44:33 applybot, find_theorems "prime 2" 18:44:35 *** ML_antiquotation "thm": bad arguments 18:44:38 Don't be ridiculous. 2 is divisible by 2. 18:44:48 applybot, find_theorems "prime 2" 18:44:49 Primes.two_is_prime_int: prime 2 \ Primes.two_is_prime_nat: prime 2 \ (and 1 more) 18:46:39 "Proof: Define R as the ring[...]" i like where this is going 18:53:30 -!- lollo64it has joined. 18:59:03 Hey, what if we multiply by 30000000 instead. Then the rest of the series is like 1.99999997 + 0.000000019999999999999997 + ... or whatever. 18:59:10 Which is less than 1, so 2/3 is irrational. 18:59:13 Can you play mi-go-scientific-card or scopone-scientific card? I know the latter game at least. ("Scopone" is Italian for "big broom". Did you know that?) 19:00:00 tswett: Is that how the proof is supposed to work? 19:00:20 Yep. 19:00:31 It doesn't looks like it to me? 19:00:50 Well, it *doesn't* work. 19:00:55 But it's *supposed* to. 19:04:20 tswett: Are you sure that 1 shouldn't be a 2? 19:04:34 FreeFull: it's definitely a 1, yeah. 19:04:51 And those 7s should be 8s. 19:05:01 The rest of the series is exactly 2, in fact. 19:05:08 And 0 < 2 < 1, so 2/3 is irrational. 19:05:39 Is an infinite sum series supposed to be left-associative or right-associative or what? 19:07:15 Right-associative, I guess. 19:07:40 The sum of an infinite series is equal to the series's first term plus the sum of the rest of the series. 19:07:51 OK 19:08:04 It is what I thought, but I wasn't sure 19:08:09 It is not the case that the sum of an infinite series is equal to the series's last term plus the sum of the rest of the series. 19:08:16 Because an infinite series doesn't have a last term. 19:09:06 YEs I know that 19:10:00 All right, what the Helsinki was I doing. Something unrelated to IRC, I'm sure. 19:10:02 (bye) 19:10:03 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 19:11:10 uh 19:12:58 -!- boily has joined. 19:20:37 k. 19:20:47 Now I've also written the guy with the github bancstar repo 19:21:09 mroman: OK, hopefully that help 19:26:14 I wonder if anyone else can help me to guess some of the BANCSTAR functions? 19:33:15 what is BANCSTAR? 19:34:37 one of t he domain-specific languages of ghost stories programmers bring up around the campfire 19:36:01 boily: There is a Wikipedia article about it, also linking to some other information. Based on this, I have figured out some of it, and made guesses as to some other parts of it. 19:36:52 * boily ventures and go check the wikipédia article... 19:37:24 * boily closes the tab. “I wasn't meant for looking at that.” 19:38:36 Bike: I agree with the ghost story part of that kvikkalkullike language. 19:39:02 * Bike nods 19:41:37 You weren't meant for looking at that? 19:42:27 I try to salvage and protect my sanity from stuff like that. 19:44:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:55:30 @tell tswett There's gotta be a word for numbers that can be written as a series of rational numbers where the ratio between successive terms approaches 0. <-- my hunch is on "real" hth 19:55:30 Consider it noted. 19:56:33 although it would be a bit more interesting if it wasn't. 19:56:34 but oerjan, e's irrationality obvious generalizes 19:56:53 Bike: is that all that is used in the proof of that? 19:57:25 when nooodl tried giving a cauchy sequence for pi tswett took it as proving any real is irrational, as far as i'm reading 19:57:42 heh 19:58:03 myname: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/bah.png is a bit of a let-down though. 19:58:35 (that's the two and gates one) 19:58:59 pretty sure the proof for e must use that the ratios are integers... 19:59:00 well, i don't know if cauchy sequences and the ratio thing are equivalent, i guess 20:00:35 -!- boily has quit (Quit: EXTRUDED CHICKEN). 20:00:37 you know _every_ real number has plenty of cauchy sequences, right 20:00:55 it's like, a definition of them. 20:01:35 yes 20:01:46 what i don't know is whether tswett is right, but i kind of doubt it 20:05:57 i suppose he might be right that it implies they're irrational, there are some approximation theorems 20:06:41 Observe: 2/3 = 0.6 + 0.066 + 0.0006666 + 0.000000066666666 + ... <-- oh hm 20:06:54 i think he just basically disproved it there. 20:06:56 it's just, yeah, i'm pretty sure that sums to 2/3 and has a ratio 20:07:03 yeah but he was acting like it didn't? i don't know 20:07:20 i'm pretty sure he was joking about 2/3 being irrational hth 20:07:37 well yes, i meant about nooodl's thing 20:08:45 @tell tswett never mind, should have read further 20:08:45 Consider it noted. 20:40:44 There's also 1/2 = 1/3 + 1/9 + 1/27 ... 20:41:14 that's a constant ratio of 3, no 20:41:42 oh 20:56:31 well if you write 1/2 in ternary as 0.1111... and _then_ use that grouping trick, you can get something with 3^n denominators. 20:58:25 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 21:03:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:08:09 -!- conehead has joined. 21:24:53 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 21:25:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:28:28 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:30:22 "To handle a molecule containing one or more cycles, one must first expand it into a tree (called a hierarchical digraph by the authors)" 21:35:50 hierographs 21:38:26 I think I've got greater trochanteric pain syndrome :( 21:39:53 terrifying 21:41:37 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:47:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:48:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:48:32 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:54:28 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:01:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:09:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:09:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:14:26 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:15:10 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:17:10 -!- tertu has joined. 23:30:15 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:45:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:48:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:50:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 2014-06-09: 00:12:58 -!- Jakob__ has joined. 00:14:06 -!- Jakob__ has quit (Client Quit). 00:26:49 -!- Leb has joined. 00:27:17 !bfjoust loop ({<})%-1 00:27:27 ​Score for Leb_loop: 0.0 00:40:55 that's just < 00:41:04 afaik. 00:44:49 !bfjoust +[>+]<[-] 00:44:49 ​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ 00:44:57 !bfjoust Useless +[>+]<[-] 00:45:00 ​Score for FreeFull_Useless: 0.0 00:45:31 0 wins! 00:46:11 There's a Charlie the Unicorn 4?!? 00:53:22 !bfjoust loop ((()*-1)*-1{.}((((()*-1)*-1{.}(()*-1)*-1)%-1)*-1)*-1)%-1 00:54:57 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:57:09 There's a second one? 01:00:38 ok, so he dealt with the first one by overflow, but nesting it means that solution is not fast enough. 01:01:11 I see a simple solution :p 01:04:13 yup, there is, but it's not implemented yet. Which means it's still going ( http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/breakdown.txt ), so I think that means someone needs to manually stop it before it's usable again 01:05:30 Are there good languages [as an average #esoteric'er considers good languages, excluding me] that use co-operative multithreading where the points of possible loss of control are obvious? 01:12:48 oh look, there's a simulator on http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ . Hey, (()*-1)*-1 already takes forever. Yup, that definately needs a manual override. 01:12:58 !bfjoust broken [ 01:14:07 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:14:19 Sgeo: any language with coroutines 01:15:03 elliott: but there's the kind where the yield etc. can be abstracted away behind a function call without any indication that that is the case... or is that called something else? 01:15:25 Sgeo: so you want a language where you can't abstract? 01:15:41 any language with coroutines and no functions or macros 01:15:43 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:15:44 wait, wait, i thought yield was usually a lexical thing 01:16:05 of course usually something that yields will be a coroutine unto itself 01:16:14 e.g., see Python's generators 01:17:02 elliott: I want the abstraction but not the fact that it's yielding to be abstracted.... e.g. what Bike said as a requirement 01:17:15 Which, Python's newer generators, Javascript generators, etc. 01:17:28 C# 01:17:32 I think a normal coroutine system satisfies your requirements if I understand them. 01:18:01 look at, I don't know, Modula-2 or something 01:18:51 you can do something like def foo: yield; def bar: foo()? man i haven't used python in a while 01:19:33 Bike: def foo(): { yield None } means that foo() will be an object with a .next() 01:19:48 (Python's syntax for this really sucks. "if you say yield in a function the whole thing is actually not the function it looks like") 01:20:03 (it should at least be, like, "def gen foo():" or something.) 01:22:04 Python used to suck worse with generators, though 01:22:26 At least, I think it did, maybe I just didn't know how to abstract properly 01:50:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:53:25 -!- Leb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:03:31 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 02:03:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 02:05:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:07:05 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 02:09:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:11:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:11:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 02:11:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:15:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:15:56 elliott: what is a comment about Go doing in this? 02:15:57 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Sgeo/morgue-Sgeo-20120422-081744.txt 02:16:15 oh 02:16:16 derp 02:16:32 the real question is why you fought a D:1 gnoll, as a transmuter, with a club 02:16:46 wow I do not remember watching this game at all 02:17:39 I don't remember playing it. 02:17:44 ...the other real question is why you're looking at the log of a D:1 game from april two years ago 02:18:03 Because it was my most recent 02:21:29 what is D:1? 02:26:49 Dungeon level 1 02:29:44 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:31:08 what does that mean? 02:31:08 -!- vyv has joined. 02:31:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 02:33:32 It's the first floor of a building called a Dungeon. 02:38:47 Insei, well at least that would explain the Go angle. 02:39:57 but good night, I'll probably dream of crazy p and n gates. 02:50:46 -!- Leb has joined. 02:51:58 back. So, someone fixed the bfjoust bot? 02:52:16 !bfjoust broken [ 02:53:36 I don't believe it was ever broken? 02:57:04 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:57:26 !bfjoust loop (()*-1)*-1 02:58:25 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/breakdown.txt 03:07:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:17:54 -!- tertu has joined. 03:23:18 Fungot, perform the action which fixes bfjoust bot. 03:23:59 https://github.com/joyent/node/issues/1707 03:24:17 I again ask fungot to perform the action which fixes bfjoustbot, presuming the name is in fact case sensitive. 03:24:17 MDude: but what did you do this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 918 03:24:55 Yes that lisp code must be able to fix it. 03:34:13 -!- Leb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:40:51 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:51:45 Apparently I am way too used to Python 03:52:11 It's still annoying that var hasOwnProperty = Object.prototype.hasOwnProperty.call; itself needs .call on it 04:01:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:09:02 I'm surprised JS people haven't started using custom dictionary types. 04:09:07 its objects are totally unsuited. 04:10:16 There's going to be a Map type in ES6 I think 04:11:01 "Key equality is based on the "same-value" algorithm: NaN is considered the same as NaN (even though NaN !== NaN) and all other values are considered equal according to the semantics of the === operator." 04:11:09 So, yet another type of equality 04:14:50 nice 04:16:35 Anyways, I should at some point go implement my horrible hack to get do notation into Javascript 04:21:57 heh 04:25:14 float keys in a map are such a fantastic idea. 04:28:29 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:35:17 obviously 04:49:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:02:43 -!- augur has joined. 05:11:35 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:19:50 -!- tertu has joined. 05:46:13 [wiki] [[Warpdrive]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39777&oldid=39775 * Rdebath * (+153) No accessible infinite memory. => !TC 05:52:05 -!- augur has joined. 05:57:31 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:20:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:25:32 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:35:08 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:37:45 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:45:11 I have idea, which would be, can it be done a kind of music compression (lossless, and compressing the note sequence, not the audio), such that nice classical-style music and other kind of nice music result in better compression? 06:52:29 !bfjoust wat < 06:52:59 !echo hi 06:53:00 hi 06:55:13 oh look, there's a simulator on http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/egojsout/ . Hey, (()*-1)*-1 already takes forever. Yup, that definately needs a manual override. <-- pretty sure those don't use the same implementation. 07:06:42 zzo38: well, something in the line of _The Complexity of Songs_ by Don Knuth? 07:07:36 [wiki] [[Warpdrive]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39778&oldid=39777 * Oerjan * (+25) that's a bit long to hide in an example 07:08:06 the songs of complexity 07:09:01 lifthrasiir: I have not heard of that. 07:29:06 Some C functions take a "reentrancy structure"; what is a reentrancy structure? 07:29:08 -!- slereah has joined. 07:33:45 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:35:03 zzo38: joe loughry wrote back 07:35:27 There's no official documentation of the BANCStar numerical language 07:36:06 BANCStar was shipped with a BANCStar Generator which allowed you to create stuff 07:36:31 however, the BANCStar Generator was not as powerful as the underlying numerical language 07:36:55 which is why people started reverse engineering BANCSTar to be ablo to program in the numeric language to be able to do more powerful stuff 07:38:16 He may be able to get the source code of his LIST tool he wrote back then 07:38:29 (which appears to be some kind of "disassembler" for BANCStar) 07:38:39 mroman: That would be good; I would like the source code of the LIST tool if available. 07:38:47 So you'd have to reverse engineer BANCSTar from LIST 07:38:54 (I knew what the LIST tool was once you mentioned it.) 07:39:53 And I knew that there was no documentation of the BANCStar numerical language. However, I was wondering if the screen generator or the BANCSTAR system itself had any documentation which can be made available. 07:40:27 More scanned pages of the program may also be helpful. 07:40:36 I'll ask him :) 07:40:39 are basically all compilers based on abstract syntax trees? 07:41:06 diginet: I don't think so 07:41:21 zzo38: oh, really? interesting, do you know of any counterexamples? 07:41:39 I am not sure. 07:42:06 or more specifically in that case, (ignoring things like optimizations) do mostly all compilers which use ASTs work by walking the AST and "translating" the nodes from source to target language? 07:42:55 I don't know the answer to that. Some might do that without actually generating the AST. 07:43:29 (I believe SQLite does not generate the AST, although it otherwise does something similar. It compiles SQL into VDBE.) 07:44:34 diginet: as opposed to what, operating "directly" on source text? 07:45:02 most compiler operations don't have much to do with the syntax. 07:45:15 Bike: I'm not sure actually, I can't really see any nice way to compile without an AST 07:45:38 I guess the more important question is the second one 07:46:00 I know the OASYS compiler uses a recursive descent parser and generates the target code when the parser matches something. 07:46:32 most of the time things aren't context-free enough for a simple "walk" to work. consider, like, that a C compiler has to remember forward declarations, that kind of thing. 07:46:33 -!- Tritonio has joined. 07:47:05 Does one pass count as non-AST? 07:48:00 I.e. you use a parser library that can call code if it matched IDENT `+=` INT SEMICOLON? 07:48:39 mroman: Won't a parser library generally do that, or am I missing something somehow? 07:48:57 Create a tree? 07:49:04 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 07:49:11 I know that yacc and Lemon can call code when matching, anyways. 07:49:33 Bison & Flex too 07:49:51 Yes 07:49:59 but Brainfuck should pretty much be compilable without a real tree 07:50:11 (I myself prefer Lemon; I don't know your own preferences.) 07:50:34 mroman: You would only need to keep track of loop nesting. You can use a stack for that, though 07:50:45 zzo38: i would have used a stack for that, yeh 07:50:47 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:50:51 push the label number 07:51:09 and do "jmp " ++ pop() on ] 07:51:24 (or jiz, jnz whatever) 07:52:11 hm. 07:52:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:52:20 String replacement languages don't need a tree too I guess 07:52:22 -!- Froox has joined. 07:52:27 you can compile them line by line 07:52:41 and they have no "loop" other than after the last line you re-run it 07:52:56 Sometimes implementation of IF ... THEN and other block structures in Forth are also using the stack; it will create an empty cell and push the address when IF is compiled, and then pop it and store the current address at the popped address when THEN is compiled. 07:53:13 and ASM probably doesn't need a tree too 07:53:47 you just have to keep track of adresses and allocate enough space to insert jumps and adresses once you know them 07:54:52 An assembler I wrote for my school project inserts LOAD32 R0, XXXX; JMP R0; and remembers that XXXXX has to be replaced by the address of label ZZZ 07:55:08 and once it knows where that label is it will replace XXXX 07:56:46 (and ELSE does both) 07:56:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:57:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:57:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 07:57:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 07:59:13 I feel confident saying that not all compilers use ASTs. :) 07:59:14 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:59:17 -!- nortti has joined. 08:02:42 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:03:02 That reminds me that I still haven't written a compiler for my language that targets x86 08:04:17 -!- Froox has joined. 08:05:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:05:35 -!- Froo has joined. 08:05:42 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:05:44 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:07:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 08:08:20 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:11:02 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:11:44 -!- nortti has joined. 08:17:34 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:26:18 -!- monotone_ has joined. 08:26:35 -!- monotone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:29:35 -!- shikhout has joined. 08:30:53 -!- mtve- has joined. 08:31:17 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:32:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:43:32 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:53:45 -!- password2 has joined. 09:09:34 [wiki] [[Talk:Stasis]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39779 * Rdebath * (+542) Too static ? 09:12:22 crazy 09:14:39 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:14:39 -!- hogeyui has joined. 09:28:27 [wiki] [[Talk:Stasis]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39780&oldid=39779 * Oerjan * (+187) Hm 09:31:51 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:34:39 -!- mtve- has changed nick to mtve. 09:38:26 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 09:42:31 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 10:08:18 -!- boily has joined. 10:30:17 -!- Leb has joined. 10:39:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:49:41 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:58:16 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:01:13 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:03:28 -!- augur has joined. 11:03:58 -!- Leb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:12:13 -!- Fenn3 has joined. 11:12:27 -!- Fenn3 has left. 11:17:26 -!- atehwa has joined. 11:50:47 -!- mhi^ has joined. 11:59:52 -!- tertu has joined. 12:03:47 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:06:59 -!- heroux has joined. 12:12:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:16:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:23:08 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:28:10 -!- yorick has joined. 12:31:52 -!- lollo64it has joined. 12:35:36 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 12:40:17 -!- rodgort has joined. 12:44:28 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:51:26 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:57:11 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 13:07:49 -!- scheurneus has joined. 13:08:03 hello all 13:09:40 -!- sign has quit (Quit: Here we are, going far to save all that we love - If we give all we've got, we will make it through - Here we are, like a star shining bright on your world - Today, make evil go away!). 13:10:38 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:12:17 !help 13:12:18 ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 13:12:46 !bf_textgen Hello, World! 13:12:54 !bf_txtgen Hello, World! 13:12:59 ​129 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>----. [378] 13:13:07 !help languages 13:13:08 ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 13:13:23 !bf8 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>----. 13:13:25 Hello, World! 13:13:35 !bf32 ++++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+++.+++++++..+++.>++.------------.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>----. 13:13:35 Hello, World! 13:20:07 -!- scheurneus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:21:59 !bf8 ++++[>++++++++<-]>+>+[<.>[>+<-]>[<++>-]<] 13:21:59 ​!!!!!!!! 13:22:02 !bf16 ++++[>++++++++<-]>+>+[<.>[>+<-]>[<++>-]<] 13:22:02 ​!!!!!!!! 13:22:21 it cheats! 13:22:36 !bf32 ++++[>++++++++<-]>+>+[<.>[>+<-]>[<++>-]<] 13:22:36 ​!!!!!!!! 13:26:23 !bf8 -. 13:26:24 ​ 13:26:32 !bf16 -. 13:26:33 ​ 13:27:30 Huh, so what does that mean? 13:28:26 What's bfN? 13:28:42 I was assuming brainfuck with N-bit cells. 13:29:00 hm. 13:29:39 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:29:48 That was my guess as well, but it looks like no? 13:30:53 hence "it cheats!" 13:31:31 Regarding the "-." output, that could well be brainfuck with N-bit cells and just . limited to 8-bit output. 13:32:13 A single 0xff byte is what came out both times, after all. 13:32:29 well, what I did should have printed 8 and 16 exclamation marks, and a timeout. 13:34:23 Oh, a times-two loop. Yes, that's more like a proof. 13:38:02 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 13:45:27 -!- MDude has joined. 13:50:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:51:35 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:07:06 -!- Jakob__ has joined. 14:07:11 hey 14:07:32 -!- Jakob__ has quit (Client Quit). 14:14:24 !help bf16 14:14:24 ​Sorry, I have no help for bf16! 14:19:27 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:19:30 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:26:30 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:30:55 -!- heroux has joined. 14:37:36 -!- scheurneus has joined. 15:03:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:05:08 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:15:27 -!- mihow has joined. 15:46:40 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 15:50:43 -!- douglass_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:50:52 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:51:18 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:52:08 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 15:54:37 Don't hate BC/AD because it is not corresponding precisely to Christ's birth; October also is not the eighth month. Don't hate BC/AD because it is religious; so are the month names and day of week names. 15:55:34 Who hates BC/AD? 15:56:47 -!- subleq has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:57:04 -!- subleq has joined. 15:57:08 Well, some people do, I think... 15:57:24 You know what's worse than BC/AD? BCD. 15:57:32 You know what's even worse 15:57:43 Discrimination against left-handed people 15:57:49 Some people like to use the terms BCE and CE, which I find to be a bit more confusing 15:58:02 "right" also means "lawful/good/correct" 15:58:17 that's very discriminating against left-handed people 15:58:41 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:58:56 What's BCE? 15:58:58 because left-handed people are the devil? 15:59:08 mroman: BCE = "before common era" 15:59:09 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 15:59:23 -!- general_cryptic_ has joined. 15:59:26 subleq: yeah 15:59:28 sort of 15:59:52 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:00:53 Wikipedia uses CE/BCE as a matter of policy, doesn't it? 16:02:50 I recall reading about that 16:02:54 fizzie: I don't know; I think I may have seen both (and I don't really have intention to change from one to the other, unless using both set of terms causes confusion?) 16:02:54 they use something :) 16:04:04 Perhaps it was just a proposal; I don't want to read through the entirety of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/BCE-CE_Debate to figure out. 16:04:28 I found it easily by typing WP:BCE 16:05:37 I agree with the things mentioned at WP:BCE 16:06:15 The BP notation was new for me. 16:07:25 I vaguely remember there's an Asimov story where the year "1 AE" is "the first year of Atomic Era", corresponding to 1945 AD/CE or something. 16:13:08 -!- scheurneus has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:13:27 [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39781&oldid=37348 * Nucular * (+51) Added link to JsBP JavaScript VM 16:15:00 O, OK 16:20:38 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:21:20 Can the unary XOR in INTERCAL be used for converting a number into a Gray code? 16:25:10 I prefer astronomical year numbering rather than BC, AD, BCE, CE, AE, etc anyways 16:25:25 I think is more sensible 16:31:56 fizzie: IIRC Orion’s Arm numbers years from the first moon landing or something. 16:33:47 the CE/AD argument is funny because it's like GODDAMN SECULARISTS, COUNTING FROM THE BIRTH OF JESUS 16:34:29 actually, counting from a couple years after the bith of jesus 16:36:21 xactly 16:41:20 nortti: Yes, that is my first argument. Bike's is my second argument. 16:47:32 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:51:39 I prefer moon calendar 16:52:00 It just makes more sense 16:55:21 -!- tswett has joined. 16:56:13 Use whatever calendar you want to, but Gregorian calendar is now the common one and you should know how to deal with it. (You may also deal with UNIX time) 16:57:53 mroman: which moon calendar? 16:58:57 Yes, which moon calendar do you like? 17:00:10 personally, I'd like a solar calendar of 13 months, with all but one being 28 days 17:00:12 the lunar one 17:00:22 We should use a compromise calendar in which a month is half a lunar month plus one 24th of a solar year. 17:02:24 Say, can every positive integer be written as a sum of distinct fractions 1/n where n is a positive integer? 17:02:41 Yeah, it's gotta be possible. 17:04:57 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:04:57 -!- general_cryptic_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:05:45 Can you prove it? 17:05:57 Yes. 17:06:02 OK 17:06:30 Yes I think it is true too 17:08:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:08:01 Oh shucks, the fact that R has no non-trivial field automorphisms is actually pretty easy to prove? 17:08:26 Apparently every field automorphism of R must send positive numbers to positive numbers. 17:08:28 Hmm. 17:08:30 What are non-trivial field automorphisms? 17:08:40 Field automorphisms that aren't the identity function. 17:09:36 Why would it have to send positive numbers to positive numbers? 17:09:57 Ooh. Because a number is positive if and only if it's a nonzero square. 17:12:07 In real numbers, yes I can see it must be 17:13:05 Dang, here I was thinking that positivity wasn't really an algebraic property. But clearly it is. 17:13:30 Now it can be seen that it is! 17:13:40 In the real numbers, at least. 17:13:57 All right, let's simplify things. There are five numbers: 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4. 17:14:00 Yes, the property you mentioned is only for real numbers, clearly 17:14:02 4 + 1 = 0. 17:14:33 O, so do you mean it is modulo five system? 17:14:41 1*1 = 1, 2*2 = 4, 3*3 = 4, and 4*4 = 1. So the positive numbers are 1 and 4. 17:14:42 Yeah. 17:14:58 Of course, -1 = 4 and -2 = 3. 17:15:06 So 1 and -1 are positive, while 2 and -2 are negative. Makes sense. 17:16:30 I dunno, I think that doesn't make sense after all. 17:16:58 It does look a strange definition of "positive" and "negative" 17:17:20 Okay, let's move up a bit. Seven numbers: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 1*1 = 1, 2*2 = 4, 3*3 = 2, 4*4 = 2, 5*5 = 4, 6*6 = 1. So 1, 2, and 4 are positive. Meanwhile, -1 = 6, -2 = 5, and -4 = 3 are negative. 17:17:21 Although clearly it does have the properties you assert them to have in that context. 17:17:40 I like having the property that the opposite of a positive number is negative and vice versa. 17:21:53 The endomorphism ring of the multiplication group of Z7 is Z6. (Let's call that the "exponent ring" of Z7.) 17:22:37 Z6 doesn't really have a multiplication group, since it has zero divisors. It has a multiplication monoid. 17:23:25 -!- trout has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 17:29:25 'Course, Z7 has a multiplication monoid, too. Let's look at its endomorphisms. 17:30:09 I guess the endomorphisms of the multiplication monoid are still the same. They're Z6. 17:31:16 -!- variable has joined. 17:32:16 How about the endomorphism ring of the multiplication monoid of Z6? Well, said monoid has identity element 1, and it's generated by 2, 3, and 5. Morphisms are fully determined by what they do to generators, aye? 17:33:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:33:41 Ooh, hang on. I think the multiplication monoid of Z7 actually has an extra endomorphism. There's one mapping 0 onto 0 and everything else onto 1, and one mapping everything onto 1. 17:37:43 The former could be called 6 and the latter could be called 0. Then it's an un-quotient of Z6, where the only way to write 0 as a sum is as 0 + 0, and 0 * x is 0 for all x, and 6 * x is 6 for all non-0 x. Aye? 17:38:27 -!- edwardk has joined. 17:40:52 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 17:43:28 Say, can every positive integer be written as a sum of distinct fractions 1/n where n is a positive integer? 17:43:29 ^ a finite sum? 17:45:58 nooodl: I think the answer is yes 17:46:15 see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_fractions 18:03:48 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:06:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:10:21 How do I get rid of the warning to cast a pointer to a integer of a different size? In this specific case, I don't care if the size of a pointer is larger or smaller or equal to the size of long long integers. 18:16:55 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Class). 18:22:00 zzo38: I don't know, does casting in two steps (via size_t) help? 18:22:21 int-e: Yes maybe that will help 18:23:59 Yes it works 18:41:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:46:15 [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39782&oldid=39730 * Rdebath * (+12) /* Current brainfuck extensions to go back to. */ 18:47:06 int-e: isn't intptr_t more appropriate 18:50:43 well, what I did should have printed 8 and 16 exclamation marks, and a timeout. <-- shocking 19:00:38 maybe it's 16-bit brainfuck but with deadfish wrapping, where 256 goes back to 0!! 19:00:39 tswett: psst ordering doesn't make sense in fields of non-zero characteristic hth 19:00:59 which includes all finite ones 19:01:36 nooodl: does that wrapped deadfish come with chips 19:02:47 @tell tswett psst ordering doesn't make sense in fields of non-zero characteristic. which includes all finite ones hth 19:02:47 Consider it noted. 19:03:29 Who says I want ordering? 19:03:36 I'm fine with the sum of two positive numbers being negative. 19:03:41 @messages 19:03:43 O KAY 19:07:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:09:06 Ooh, great idea. Esolang where there are keywords defining program structure, but the keywords don't have to nest correctly. 19:10:46 "if Ready then while Yellow do PokeSomething else RunAround endif EatCake endwhile" 19:11:09 Doesn't Pascal have that? 19:11:22 Not that I've heard of. 19:11:33 Of course, Haskell has every possible control structure. 19:12:15 Haskell doesn't have any control structures; you can make it up instead, out of computable mathematics. 19:12:41 doesn't "if" count 19:14:02 if is syntactic sugar 19:14:52 i'd say Haskell only has case ... of ... as control structure 19:14:55 scheme doesn't have any control structures, you can make them yourself out of call/cc, lambdas, and arrogance 19:14:56 for case ... of { True -> ...; False -> ... }? 19:15:25 nod, nooodle 19:15:30 `addquote scheme doesn't have any control structures, you can make them yourself out of call/cc, lambdas, and arrogance 19:15:33 1205) scheme doesn't have any control structures, you can make them yourself out of call/cc, lambdas, and arrogance 19:15:47 case-of is totally a control structure 19:16:31 i should figure out call/cc 19:16:36 Case statements are definitely syntactic sugar. 19:16:55 it's really scary?? also the Cont monad 19:16:57 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 19:17:06 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 19:17:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:17:33 nooodl: Cont seems less scary 19:18:11 I think when I was playing with linear logic, I found that Cont, State, and Store are three vertices of a square. 19:18:28 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:18:48 tswett: How does that work? 19:19:04 State s a = s -> (s, a) and Store s a = (s, s -> a). So clearly there's a dual relationship there. 19:19:10 Just swap the (s,) and the (s ->). 19:20:41 Now, Cont s a = (a -> s) -> s. Using ~ to represent the dual operator and | to represent the par operator, (a -> s) -> s = ~(a -> s) | s = ~(~a | s) | s = (~~a, ~s) | s = (a, ~s) | s. 19:21:22 Note that if you swap s and ~s, this becomes (a, s) | ~s = ~s | (a, s) = s -> (a, s), which is State. 19:21:34 So Cont and State are also in a certain dual relationship. 19:22:03 The fourth corner of the square is (~s, ~s -> a) or (~s, s | a). 19:22:24 i think State and Store are dual because they both arise from the same adjoint functors, but composed in opposite order. this is only possible because those functors are from Hask to itself. (at least this analogy works for Set.) 19:22:40 oerjan: right. The same is true of Cont and this fourth corner, I believe. 19:23:11 With State and Store, the functors are (s ->) and (s,). With Cont and the fourth corner, the corners are (s |) and (~s,). 19:23:16 s/corners/functors/ 19:23:30 okay Cont isn't very scary 19:23:34 Of course, neither of those can be interpreted in Hask any more. I think. 19:23:38 with Cont the functors are being Hask and Hask^op, iirc 19:23:53 and so Cont is actually _self_-dual. 19:24:17 callCC isn't very scary either?? the yin-yang puzzle still is 19:24:21 According to my linear logic, the dual of Cont is something other than Cont. 19:24:22 But uh. 19:24:33 the dual is a comonad on Hask^op, which is a monad on Hask, which is Cont itself. 19:25:04 It's not instantly obvious to me why the dual is a comonad on Hask^op. 19:25:33 oerjan: can you tell me what the functors between Hask and Hask^op are? 19:25:35 tswett: when you have adjoint functors between categories A and B, you get a monad on A and a comonad on B. 19:25:46 I believe yin-yang is also implemented as one of the Unlambda example programs 19:25:48 or wait 19:25:56 Sounds right so far. 19:26:06 i am not sure about that comonad part 19:26:24 I think you're right. 19:26:25 this is all very vaguely recalled 19:26:34 But do you remember what functors Cont decomposes into? 19:27:12 -!- melliflous has joined. 19:27:15 Cont r a = Cont ((a -> r) -> r), the functors are both (a -> r) 19:27:24 Ahh. 19:27:30 Of course. 19:27:53 -!- melliflous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:28:07 -!- mellifluous has joined. 19:28:26 Then what I'm doing is a different decomposition of what's really a different monad that I'm writing the same way for the sake of confusion. 19:30:00 okay :P 19:30:26 But my monad could also be decomposed your way. 19:30:33 But my decomposition is into covariant functors. 19:30:48 huh 19:31:09 Of course, I'm using linear logic operators, meaning my decomposition has to be interpreted in a... 19:31:14 One of those categories you can interpret linear logic in. 19:31:16 maybe linear logic is its own opposite category or something... 19:31:50 A symmetric monoidal category ATWP. 19:32:01 `? atwp 19:32:02 atwp? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 19:32:12 -!- M28 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:32:14 According to Wikipedia. 19:32:19 -!- M28_ has joined. 19:32:38 Monad can also be made from Free, Codensity, CodensityAsk, etc, for example Cont r = Codensity (Const r) and Either x = CodensityAsk (Traced x) and so on. 19:32:49 -!- Burton has joined. 19:33:09 And also, [] = Codensity Endo 19:33:13 Unfortunately, I don't know what Codensity, Const, CodensityAsk, and Traced are. 19:33:15 `` echo According to Wikipedia, ATWP means nothing. >wisdom/atwp 19:33:15 Or Endo. 19:33:16 No output. 19:33:50 tswett: Then you must learn. 19:34:15 i suppose that's not entirely true. 19:34:33 -!- conehead has joined. 19:34:53 but air transport white paper doesn't have its own article, at least. 19:35:39 There is also Co, which can make a monad (or a monad transformer) from a comonad. 19:37:44 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:40:02 scott aaronson about being interviewed about that turing test thing "Luckily, while an experienced judge could easily distinguish me from an AI researcher, I only needed to simulate one for a few minutes of banter." 19:52:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:55:17 -!- Melvar has joined. 20:02:59 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:13:49 -!- password2 has joined. 20:15:28 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 20:17:47 -!- Zuu has joined. 20:27:15 elliott: funny, I was going to suggest intptr_t myself but then got distracted while looking for whether the C standard actually has that type. (C99 does, as an optional type in stdint.h) 20:32:02 -!- drlemon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:46 -!- password2 has joined. 20:37:15 -!- idris-bot has joined. 20:39:41 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:42:50 -!- Leb has joined. 20:44:17 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:45:40 !bfjoust is-it-fixed? (.)*-1 20:50:11 it's not going to be fixed unless you ping Gregor. 20:51:26 !bfjoust breakdown-says-parsing-error-on-program-not-on-report (.)*-1 20:51:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:56:01 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:56:13 I don't understand how the hill works. The Egobot source link gives error 500, so that's no help. 20:56:14 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:56:15 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 20:56:45 Then Gregor should fix that probably 20:57:46 -!- douglass has joined. 21:02:00 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:05:33 Out of curiosity, does it do any good if you replace Leb_broken with something that's not broken? 21:06:26 fizzie: i bet you could fix it, right? 21:06:34 I don't know anything about it. 21:06:59 oh wait it's EgoBot not HackEgo. are they on the same host? 21:07:09 That didn't stop me from fixing HackEgo that one time, but still. The web parts at least don't run on the machine I can access, as far as I know. 21:07:41 And apparently the bot isn't, either. 21:07:43 well but !bfjoust itself is not giving any response. 21:08:36 it is generating the breakdown, just not answering back on irc 21:09:43 Based on few /whoises, EgoBot is on the same box with glogbot, which is a different one than HackEgo and the wiki. 21:10:09 So I don't think I can be of any help. 21:10:14 aww 21:10:37 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:11:29 oh, my "loop" is still in "in_egobot", so maybe it's getting locked there. 21:12:45 I was under the impression that was fixed. 21:13:12 At least, it is fixed in newer versions of the foolance code, but maybe the hill hasn't been updated. 21:13:51 (Newer ones remove loops that take no cycles.) 21:14:14 You can (probably) overwrite your "loop" by resubmitting something else. 21:14:37 With the same name, I mean. 21:15:56 Engaging in a bit of Pair Programming yay 21:16:03 Enterprise, agile, what have you 21:16:21 Getting all scrummy, eh? 21:16:46 -!- tswett_ has joined. 21:17:07 I should totally implement object-oriented programming in Coq. 21:17:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: bye). 21:18:50 tswett_, yes you should 21:19:25 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:22:15 A class is simply a "state" type along with a directed acyclic graph of methods, where each method is a function taking the state and all methods pointing at it and some parameters and returning the new state and the return value. 21:22:24 Yup yup. 21:23:27 Subclassing just means creating a new class that happens to implement the interface of the old class. 21:28:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:33:40 !bfjoust loop lets see if this fixes it. 21:33:45 ​Score for Leb_is-it-fixed_: 5.7 21:33:45 ​Score for Leb_broken: 0.0 21:33:46 ​Score for Leb_breakdown-says-parsing-error-on-program-not-on-report: 5.7 21:33:46 ​Score for Leb_loop: 5.7 21:33:46 ​Score for Leb_broken: 0.0 21:33:46 ​Score for Leb_loop: 5.7 21:33:46 ​Score for Leb_loop: 5.7 21:33:47 ​Score for oerjan_wat: 0.0 21:33:56 yay! 21:34:16 well that was efficient. 21:35:33 !bfjoust clear-the-breakdown-please . 21:35:36 ​Score for Leb_clear-the-breakdown-please: 6.1 21:36:27 OOP is silly and shouldn't be implemented in Coq. 21:36:33 The "loop problem" has been fixed since Mar 23, 2013; the running code could really do with an update. 21:37:07 fizzie: right after Gregor updates to Quintopia's scoring method, i take. 21:37:27 So, what's the best syntax for multi-line comments? Is it {- -}? Is it (* *)? Is it ? 21:37:58 tswett_: -- (comment here) (more comment here) hth 21:38:03 {# #}? 21:38:21 oerjan: the good ol' "pound sign on every line" multi-line comment syntax? 21:38:29 Sounds good. 21:38:38 tswett_: what pound sign 21:39:21 --, obviously. 21:39:29 that's a pound sign? 21:39:31 -!- boily has joined. 21:39:33 Obviously. 21:40:04 but no. there's only a -- at the beginning, followed by as many multi-line parenthesized (with correct nesting) comments as you want. 21:40:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:40:10 ~duck CYUL 21:40:13 The "CYUL" ICAO airport code corresponds to MontralPierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport in Dorval, Quebec, Canada and the IATA code is "YUL." 21:40:19 what. 21:40:25 what the fungot. 21:40:25 boily: and you can't tell the difference via text. 21:40:39 ~metar CYUL 21:40:39 CYUL 092100Z 36008G15KT 30SM FEW060 FEW120 SCT240 27/12 A2993 RMK SC1AC1CI3 SC TR AC TR SLP134 DENSITY ALT 1500FT 21:40:42 hth 21:40:52 my brain. it is overheating. 21:40:58 ~metar ENVA 21:40:59 ENVA 092120Z 01003KT 9999 FEW020 13/10 Q1023 RMK WIND 670FT 30004KT 21:41:01 just did one sunny bike ride. 21:41:22 TIL under natural sunlight, I can't tell the difference between a duck. 21:42:01 between a duck and ? 21:42:19 * tswett_ reads a paper about two-dimensional programming languages. 21:42:23 boily: thank you for that ping. 21:42:29 -!- oerjan has set topic: Please don't mind boily, he has a sun stroke | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 21:43:14 elliott: oh hi! :D 21:43:38 nortti: you know, one leg is both the same. 21:43:55 -!- oerjan has set topic: Please don't mind boily, he has a sun stroke and is not insane at all | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 21:44:46 thørjan. 21:44:54 This paper was published in 1972. 21:44:56 I hope it's still relevant. 21:45:08 several people published in 1972 are still relevant 21:46:07 When boily says he did a "bike ride", does he mean he was riding a bike or he was riding Bike? 21:46:20 how lewd 21:46:26 also, my ability to guess which english compounds are written in one word fails again 21:47:27 tswett_: I haven't ever physically seen any #esotëric member, except Roujo. I haven't mailed any member, except Quintopia. Bike is quite far from here. 21:48:48 #esotëric, you say? 21:49:24 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:49:30 #esotëric. 21:49:42 So, it's not all too obvious how two-dimensional syntaxes would be defined. 21:50:13 You'd need two-dimensional lexical tokens 21:50:21 Lexical jigsaw puzzle pieces 21:51:20 -!- vyv has joined. 21:51:39 Okay. I'm thinking that the notion of a string would be replaced by the notion of a box. Concatenation would be replaced by juxtaposition. 21:51:47 Whitespace outside of tokens would always be considered insignificant. 21:51:54 I also don't know how would you make a two-dimensional tokenizer? 21:52:08 I.e. a box juxtaposed with a blank box is equivalent to the original box. 21:52:19 i believe that is the topic of a good amount of computer vision :p 21:52:23 zzo38: bilinear interpolation? 21:52:42 We get ambiguity pretty quickly. 21:53:10 Suppose you have an "a" in the upper left and a "b" in the upper right. Is that an "a" box above a "b" box or an "a" box to the left of a "b" box? 21:54:27 ~math problems~ 21:54:27 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 21:55:24 ~echo punk motherfucker with a badge and a gun 21:55:24 punk motherfucker with a badge and a gun 21:56:55 -!- tswett_ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 21:57:22 ~echo `echo hello 21:57:23 `echo hello 21:57:23 hello 21:58:02 -!- tswett_ has joined. 21:58:16 ^echo ~echo foo 21:58:16 ~echo foo ~echo foo 21:58:16 foo ~echo foo 21:58:33 you might want to fix that 21:58:41 in the next version! 21:58:51 -!- tswett_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:58:53 (you know, the one that is coming real soon now >_>...) 21:59:07 otherwise, this would be bad: ^echo ~echo ^echo 21:59:08 -!- tswett_ has joined. 21:59:11 Dare I say ^echo ~echo ^echo? 21:59:12 ~echo ~echo foo 21:59:12 ~echo foo 21:59:40 ^echo Like, I assume fungot just says whatever twice? 21:59:40 Like, I assume fungot just says whatever twice? Like, I assume fungot just says whatever twice? 21:59:47 yes 21:59:56 haha 22:00:16 I'm not going to say ^echo ~echo ^echo, then. 22:00:20 @where+ test ~echo @run 123 22:00:21 Nice! 22:00:21 @where test 22:00:22 ~echo @run 123 22:00:22 @run 123 22:00:24 123 22:00:49 But I'd like to see someone else try it. 22:01:14 @where+ test ~echo @where test 22:01:14 It is forever etched in my memory. 22:01:23 @where test 22:01:23 ~echo @where test 22:01:23 @where test 22:01:23 ~echo @where test 22:01:23 @where test 22:01:23 ~echo @where test 22:01:24 @where test 22:01:24 ~echo @where test 22:01:24 @where test 22:01:25 -!- lambdabot has left. 22:01:32 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:01:38 MUAH AH AH! 22:01:45 -!- tswett_ has quit (Client Quit). 22:01:53 ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:01:53 ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:01:53 ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:01:54 -!- tswett_ has joined. 22:02:08 nortti, fungot has an ignore list 22:02:08 Taneb: change x y)) 22:02:12 My Internet connection isn't working that well. 22:02:15 I guess I should get a job so I can move out and have wired Internet. 22:02:48 I'm totally disappointed by how nobody is saying ^echo ~echo ^echo. 22:02:54 ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:02:55 ~echo ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:02:55 ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:03:03 Thank you. 22:03:06 01:02 < tswett_> I'm totally disappointed by how nobody is saying ^echo ~echo ^echo. <-- 01:01 < nortti> ^echo ~echo ^echo 22:03:10 I feel much better now. 22:03:10 nortti said it first, but you were in a disappeared state. 22:03:24 Well darn. 22:03:40 had forgotten to account for fungot's better bot-ignoring 22:03:41 nortti: fun, but it seems like it gives me t too with the others 22:04:01 fungot: yes, that's why it is called the whole alphabet 22:04:01 nortti: i'm using 203, and want the fnord formatting 22:04:01 LA PREGUNTA ES: why didn't fungot obey the second command, exactly? 22:04:02 tswett_: it works flawlessly on powerpc slackware ( fnord). not sure what difference that would have given: roma, turt, iipc, trds, imap or mode 22:05:29 * boily appends a chocolate chip cookie to fungot 22:05:30 boily: when emacs is rewritten? i thought about 22:15:53 -!- coppro has changed nick to tookeytoo. 22:16:04 tswett_: metasepia is on fungot's ignore list. 22:16:04 oerjan: since they didn't have methods?' en osaa mihin muotoon pitää laittaa be late 22:16:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: And good night). 22:17:05 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 22:17:14 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:19:21 -!- tookeytoo has changed nick to coppro. 22:24:39 -!- realzies has joined. 22:38:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:39:00 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:39:45 -!- tswett_ has left ("Konversation terminated!"). 22:47:07 -!- Froo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:50:04 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:53:17 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:55:49 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 22:58:20 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:00:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:05:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUNNY CHICKEN). 23:05:28 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:09:23 -!- mellifluous has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:11:17 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:11:20 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 23:12:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:17:25 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 23:25:39 I wrote a C library to parse ZCDSF now, although it still contains a few mistakes. 23:25:55 What is ZCDSF? 23:26:36 shachaf: It is documented at http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/zcdsf.txt 23:29:04 (The name was suggested by someone else; I abbreviated it.) 23:29:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:30:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:31:49 -!- Bike has joined. 23:31:58 please do tell what was going on with egobot 23:32:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:32:42 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:37:20 the bfjoust thing? I sent (()*-1)*-1 23:40:15 -!- tromp has joined. 23:40:51 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:41:37 and that freezes it? 23:42:07 oh i get it 23:42:17 fizzie corrected and submitted to gregor a fix to gearlance 23:42:21 and he has not installed it 23:42:23 makes sense 23:43:14 let's all go to gregor's house and sleep on his couch and floor until he fixes it 23:47:12 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 23:47:47 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:52:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-06-10: 00:01:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:02:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:09:15 -!- tromp has joined. 00:11:12 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:11:22 -!- Bike has joined. 00:41:47 Why do Google's HTTP servers have a lot of protocol violations? 00:44:15 to madden you 00:49:04 I doubt it has anything to do with me 00:59:23 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:03:12 zzo38: because lots of people don't follow protocols, sometimes because they can't, because of other people not following protocols 01:16:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:20:38 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:24:51 Can you please help me? Is ZCDSF even LALR(1)? 01:26:16 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:26:44 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:27:01 The compiler says there aren't any conflicts, but it still doesn't work. 01:28:52 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:29:24 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:32:39 Actually I may have found one of the mistakes; probably many of the mistakes I made are in the tokenizer instead of in the parser. 01:33:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:33:32 The tokenizer was deleting some semicolons that shouldn't be deleted. 01:34:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:34:55 -!- Bike has joined. 01:35:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:35:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:36:41 I think it works now. 01:38:11 Macros still have a few problems. 01:46:19 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:28 OK I fixed it. I accidentally put a minus sign instead of equal sign and that caused a problem 02:05:51 I love working at 1:15AM! 02:05:58 ocl 02:06:01 *ick 02:19:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:21:52 -!- Bike has joined. 02:24:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: g2g). 02:26:41 Now I made it: http://zzo38computer.org/prog/zcdsflib.zip 02:27:43 Please look in the file called "zcdsflib.h" for the list of API functions. 02:28:30 Do you think this is good? 02:30:52 It isn't quite perfect. 02:31:18 It isn't secure either. 02:34:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:37:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:37:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:43:24 -!- Bike has joined. 02:44:24 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:08:36 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:15:59 -!- Leb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:18:48 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:22:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:22:32 -!- Bike has joined. 03:23:32 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:32:40 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:41:29 A music tracker software I would think, it would help to have three more windows: SQL window, MML compiler window, and synthesizer window. Do you know of such a software, which can also make/edit/play a .MOD and .S3M and .IT and .XM formats? 03:42:47 Also even such format as .MOD and so on you cannot enable multiple effects at once 03:52:24 -!- tswett has joined. 03:52:32 Good news, everyone! 03:52:45 So I'm pretty sure that a while back, in this channel, someone mentioned "coffee with butter in". 03:53:56 I mentioned that that sounded wrong to me; you'd have to say "coffee with butter in it". 03:54:15 Whereas it's perfectly fine to say e.g. "a gun with bullets in". 03:54:17 Someone asked why. 03:54:23 I now think I know the answer to that question. 03:54:42 "slightly different dialect" 03:54:44 The answer is that something is only "in" if it operates by being inside of whatever it's inside of. Otherwise, it has to be "in it". 03:55:06 Bullets operate by being inside of guns. Butter does not operate by being inside of coffee. 03:55:32 have you ever heard the term "post-hoc" 03:56:02 As in post-hoc analysis? 03:56:17 quite 03:56:45 Sure. It's hard to do analysis without already having some data. 03:58:28 well the implication is you just make something up after the fact. 03:58:47 Well, I tried to come up with a simple hypothesis that fit the data well. 03:58:52 without much real possibility that it's the cause (for instance: why does this matter to americans and not to brits) 03:59:29 cos you keep doing this and you're gonna end up thinking "fuck" is an initialism, you know? 04:00:44 Also, I haven't yet thought of a counterexample or an alternative hypothesis that seems to work better. 04:01:10 quirk of history assisted by geographic separations 04:03:07 Have you ever used a gun 04:03:41 Bike: you realize that you're not actually contradicting what I said? 04:03:46 Jafet: yes, but not a bullet gun. 04:03:55 mine is an alternative hypothesis. 04:04:24 i haven't used a gun, but i have concluded that they work by magnetic acceleration, cos that's how i'd make one. 04:04:29 My hypothesis is a hypothesis about what the rule is for me personally. Your hypothesis is a hypothesis about why it's that way. 04:05:05 Bicycle artillery 04:05:21 (I ain't never used none of them BULLET GUNS.) 04:05:31 why would you do that to a bicycle jafet 04:06:14 You can't put artillery on a unicycle, man, it would fall over. 04:06:35 Bicycle artillery. What a great idea. 04:07:08 have the artillery fire in both ways simultaneously 04:07:35 Is there a word for a gun that isn't a firearm? 04:07:45 Of course, that never stopped the Dresden Unicycle Military Branch's firing uni cyclist kooks. 04:07:52 waterleg 04:10:27 Are tracker music formats supposed to be deliberately difficult to work with? 04:10:33 It seems like it to me. 04:12:07 Air gun, I guess. 04:14:20 zzo38: it's a well known fact that leonardo davinci wrote his chiptunes backwards to confuse thieves. 04:28:38 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 04:52:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 04:59:00 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:00:34 -!- vyv has joined. 05:13:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:46:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:50:06 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:26:02 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:55:58 -!- tertu has joined. 06:56:30 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 07:00:31 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:00:35 -!- tertu_ has joined. 07:08:35 -!- kmc has joined. 07:08:41 fungots fall on fungot falls 07:08:41 kmc: or not. i didn't write down who said that 07:10:41 fungot: apparently, godspeed you black emperor hth 07:10:41 oerjan: strike the " for" 07:10:55 fungot: already did hth 07:10:55 oerjan: this means that whatever the 2nd interpreter does added to the hashtable i have the patch? 07:11:24 fungot: i don't know, show me the code 07:11:24 oerjan: my fnord have fnord of code improvement are applicable to many languages 07:11:38 fungot: i think that got censored hth 07:11:39 oerjan: i did?) has no support for processes. 07:12:05 ^language hth 07:14:11 ^show 07:14:11 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 07:14:26 i don't think it has that command 07:18:42 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:20:40 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:22:01 -!- vyv has joined. 07:23:51 -!- password2 has joined. 08:05:09 zzo38: Loughry pushed some new stuff 08:05:15 He pushed more source code and the LIST source code too 08:05:26 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/blob/master/MM1SM1.SCN 08:05:36 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/tree/master/LIST/src/ 08:05:40 ^- that's the LIST source 08:06:04 OK now let me to see it 08:06:47 -!- micha2718l has joined. 08:07:41 He also found a PDF that documents opcodes 08:07:52 although "documents"... :D 08:07:57 it lists them at least :D 08:08:45 4001 - 7999 is Draw 08:08:47 whatever that means. 08:10:33 What do the asterisks on the left side means? 08:11:16 No idea. 08:11:38 Some of these things I have already guessed a bit from the other printouts and examples 08:12:39 Whoever printed it out forgot to compensate for the holes 08:15:20 10000 - 12000 are "Arithmetic Commands" 08:15:37 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:15:50 Still very little information :) 08:16:36 Yes, although from looking at the printout, a few more things can be figured out about that. 08:16:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:17:15 I already figured that 10000 and so on are used for direct assignment, and low numbered commands are prompts, from what was available before. 08:17:36 From looking at printout a few more things about how this "arithmetic commands" can be figured out. 08:19:54 For example, the three operands to "arithmetic commands" seem to be the values to add or otherwise do, where you have to multiply by ten and add two. A number 1 to 2000 is a variable, or you can add 2200 for a literal number (I don't know why it is 2200). 08:21:03 But for comparisons, there is no "multiply by ten", and you instead add ten thousand for a numeric literal, or thirty thousand for a character literal. 08:22:10 (I don't know what happens if you add twenty thousand.) 08:23:45 i need more things to graph 08:24:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:24:38 The ones digit of the arithmetic operands seems to be 2 for addition and 6 for substrings; I don't know what 5 means. 08:24:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 08:24:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:24:49 Quintopia: graph the number of graphs that don't graph themselves hth 08:28:56 -!- micha2718l has quit (Quit: Bye). 08:29:08 -!- micha2718l has joined. 08:33:49 OK, now I see arithmetic operator 4 is division 08:35:43 From the context, it seems that command 3100 might mean that it is an error if the condition is false; rewind and tell the user to try again. 08:38:24 It is now clear from the arrows that 3001 command block does not nest, and just combines conditions using a "and" operation; I have already guessed this from the part of the program that "only ten people can read", and now I have confirmed it. 08:39:30 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 08:40:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:41:37 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:41:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:41:57 -!- oerjan has set topic: Turning BANCStar up to eleven | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 08:49:30 I am guessing that the last value in the prompt commands is the position on the screen which it is displayed. 08:49:55 And it is in row/column format 08:50:04 Where the row is multiplied by one hundred 08:52:03 It is in format: variable,help-position,response-length,field-position is my currently guess 08:53:03 I don't know why some of them use negative numbers though. Probably that means something too. 08:53:56 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:58:43 zzo38: He alos pushed 58 pages of annotated source code :) 08:58:51 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/blob/master/LIST/doc/C16LNAPP.SCN_LIST_report.pdf 08:59:44 which also includes some "Screenshots" of the GUI at the end 09:00:20 or at least what his tool generated 09:01:02 zzo38: He also found a copy of the actual software 09:01:13 on a floppy disk :) 09:01:18 which he tries to recover 09:01:26 let's hope the floppy disk isn't too much damaged. 09:02:32 Yes, I am looking at those annotated codes now 09:03:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:08:55 -!- mhi^ has joined. 09:13:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:14:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:22:46 zzo38: is this about BANCStar still? 09:23:05 seems to be 09:26:04 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:26:25 b_jonas: yep 09:27:08 Is the first number in a BANCStar line always the opcode? 09:29:04 b_jonas: I think so 09:29:43 Although the opcode also includes the number of the variable to manipulate, if applicable. 09:29:44 I'll make an entry on the eso wiki for BANCStar 09:33:55 i vaguely recall BANCStar being removed because someone insisted it's not esoteric. not sure it was the wiki, though. 09:34:35 [wiki] [[BANCStar]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39783 * B jonas * (+730) Created page with "'''BANCStar''' is a language that was used in production in finance in the 1990s, even though it looks like an esoteric language. Each line in a BANCStar program is four op..." 09:35:16 There is the prehistory of esolangs page, as well as some people wanting "honorary esolangs" too; however, it is unsure how to organize such thing within the wiki, and furthermore in a few cases it may be disagreed of what counts. 09:35:43 meh, if you don't like honorary esolangs, just add a category for them or something 09:35:55 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39784&oldid=39737 * B jonas * (+15) 09:36:30 I myself am OK with it (and agree with you to make it separate category), but perhaps we can decide which way best. 09:37:08 sure, just delete it if you decide there's no place for it 09:37:27 and add Haskell and C++ etc if you decide you want honorary esolangs or something 09:38:03 I wouldn't consider to add those, but that is what I say, it may be disagreed of what counts. 09:38:45 More seriously, I wouldn't bother to add stuff like Haskell or C++ or TeX or metafont etc, because there's already lots of information about those everywhere on the internet. 09:38:48 b_jonas: i think the prospect that people will start adding things like haskell and c++ is a reason why we've avoided it... 09:39:08 But if you're actually studying BANCStar here, then it deserves a place on the eso wiki. 09:39:37 so let's try it then. 09:39:41 oerjan: if someone does want to bother, I don't feel a problem with adding C++, as long as it's not seriously misrepresented 09:39:56 like, don't claim that it's not used in production or that it was intended as an esolang originally 09:40:47 should BANCStar go into bounded storage languages, or have you found a way to address arrays? 09:40:59 Note of things like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages existing, as well as some things on user subpages such as http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ian/Computer_architectures 09:41:44 zzo38: sure 09:41:46 b_jonas: There are "tables", but I don't know how they work. Probably it is bounded storage but of course I don't know; only things we can do for now is to makes guesses 09:42:12 I believe that the Special:Random will never select a user page 09:42:59 never mind, it's not like bounded storage really means much in a language implemented in a computer 09:44:19 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 09:45:54 I think pages can also be moved between name spaces if that help 09:46:02 sure 09:48:30 I would delete [[Perl]] if oerjan didn't make it mildly amusing 09:48:59 *hadn't made, rather 09:49:24 Yes I think that Perl article is good the way it is written, for being on esolang wiki 09:50:43 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:51:11 [wiki] [[Perl]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39785&oldid=37512 * B jonas * (+26) 09:51:33 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 09:51:50 b_jonas: that category is for esoteric languages only, I think 09:51:57 [wiki] [[Perl]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39786&oldid=39785 * B jonas * (+54) 09:52:06 oh, maybe not 09:52:09 I guess it's not a subcat of Languages 09:52:20 there should probably be a cateogry for non-esoteric languages 09:52:34 but Implemented and TC should maybe be reserved for esoteric-only, I think. 09:52:42 Or probably one for honorary esolang, at least 09:52:51 elliott: Yes, probably those two should at least 09:53:16 looks like you can have 501 pages 09:53:30 probably 500 09:53:35 I assume 0 isn't a "legal" page 09:53:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:53:54 values > 501 are function keys 09:54:07 (There may sometimes be reasons why you might have TC on other things too but I don't think of any right now. But I agree that Implemented probably only for (non-honorary) esolangs) 09:54:12 as for BANCStar, the strange part is why they didn't use at least an assembler for handling the code labels and variables 09:54:20 mroman: OK 09:54:31 b_jonas: I was thinking about quite the same kind of things 09:54:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:54:55 such an assembler could probably be made compatible with existing code 09:54:57 An assembler (supporting a superset of the existing syntax) could be done. 09:55:11 (at least not less compatible than writing raw code) 09:55:12 I could do it if I knew enough about it! 09:55:25 L_COMMTS.C is probably going to be most helpful 09:55:32 but I probably have a strange idea about these kinds of things: 09:55:59 8500 with M3 40XX is like pressing the corresponding key o_O 09:56:42 back when we had to write the same homework in two languages, I wrote a translator from a language that had the intersection of their features, and then when that worked fine, I ran out of time and couldn't write the actual program to work well 09:56:44 you can even execute DOS commands apparentely 09:57:10 and even now I probably care too much about the tools 09:57:23 mromas: Yes I saw that. 09:58:11 is this BANCStar system connected to a database or network or printer or something? 09:58:29 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:58:30 zzo38: Did you look at the arithmetic commands 09:58:30 b_jonas: I would guess, all three, probably. 09:58:35 they are really weird 09:58:42 but it looks like there's -+*/ 09:59:04 mroman: I have looked at the scanned listing file, and figure out some of how it works, as I have described above. 09:59:23 I didn't finished looking at all of them yet, though. 09:59:53 Values under 2000 are prompts 10:00:12 how are you reverse engineering this? from those printouts only? or do you have access to an implementation (not necessarily in working condition)? 10:00:13 mroman: Yes I figured out that already. 10:00:15 which means if the operand_2 is 1000 it will show the user a prompt with the text stored in 1000? 10:00:25 b_jonas: From those printouts only. 10:00:40 b_jonas: We might get access to an implementation 10:00:52 depends on whether JLoughry can read the floppy disk he found 10:01:21 Even from just the two pages that were originally scanned, and the information that was released when they wrote about the program that only ten people can read it, I could figure out a lot of things. 10:01:34 Although a lot of it, just being guesses. 10:02:03 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 10:02:04 zzo38: Out of curiousity: Do you plan to implement BANCStar? 10:02:10 Or why did you start reverse engineering it? 10:04:03 mroman: Just to figure it out, because figure out that kind of stuff interests me a bit. 10:14:48 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:45 zzo38: have you documented what you've figured out so far in a file or something? 10:29:44 The thing doing the printing seems to print "variable" numbers emboldened. I wonder if that has any semantic meaning or is just a pretty-printing thing 10:38:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:40:27 FireFly: probably no semantic meaning, for http://reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/station/2266/tarpit/bancstar.html 10:40:37 says "The only legal characters in a BANCStar program are the digits 0 through 9, comma, minus sign, and carriage return. Blank lines are not allowed. If a "." appears anywhere in the file, the compiler will crash." 10:42:08 That makes sense 10:43:04 the compiler. crashes. on a fungotting period. I refuse to believe that. 10:43:04 boily: hey would fnord be fun to watch him argue with a native fnord. 10:43:25 fungot: there are multiple kinds of fnords? 10:43:25 boily: if you consider that i stated only what i need is to override a specific procedure and then re-export everything else the way it is 10:43:40 yeah, consider that 10:43:52 Dies this really have a compiler? I totally thought this was some interpreter that interprets the array of fours of integers. 10:47:30 b_jonas: It has a "Screen Generator" 10:47:48 Which I think allowed you to create Forms WYSYWG style? 10:48:23 there was a program at least that allowed to to create stuff which was translated to BANCStar language that was interpreted by some sort of VM 10:48:29 *you to 10:48:41 boily: what's so strange about that, after all it's just the compiler coming to a full stop 10:48:48 but as he said, that Screen Generator wasn't powerful enough so they started reverse engineering the VM 10:49:05 and program directly in it instead of using the screen generator 10:49:26 as I understand it it was never meant to be programmed in it directly which is why there's no official documentation of it 10:49:38 which is weird because... I mean 10:49:44 If you program a VM you document it, right? 10:49:56 mroman: sure, 10:50:02 zzo38: Who actually wrote the BANCStar "VM"? 10:50:30 ah. the NFCS Inc. 10:50:44 Hm 10:50:44 mroman: but I meant about that statement that the "compiler crashes" if it meets a full stop in the barnstar numbers 10:51:24 oerjan: ... 10:51:47 b_jonas: Oh. Hm... 10:51:54 That's a good question 10:52:32 "We developed some in-house tools for programming large applications in BANCStar, and at one point attempted to interest Broadway & Seymour in them, but I think they never really believed us, that we were writing directly to their internal, low-level, undocumented machine code." 10:52:37 :D 10:53:11 Why would Broadway & Seymour create a VM and not document it's machine code 10:53:24 and why wouldn't the programmers just ask them for a documentation 10:53:30 this is all really really creepy 10:53:41 mroman: because it's supposed to be an internal form for the screne generator program 10:53:43 mroman: manifest destiny hth 10:53:55 b_jonas: Yeah. 10:54:00 mroman: IMO, the people that started to misuse it and write the internal form directly without proper tools are to blame 10:54:07 But how will you write the Screen Generator without documentation of the VM it's supposed to target? 10:54:19 mroman: yes. this was before 1990 10:54:27 mroman: don't try to think of it like you're in 2014 10:54:39 it's like you wrote a VM, then a "Compiler"/"Generator" that targets said VM 10:54:43 but you never documented the freaking VM? 10:54:50 what the hell 10:55:07 Good luck maintaining that compiler then 10:55:08 Maybe they documented it with pen and paper 10:55:10 yes, or maybe they documented it internally, but never released the docs about that with their proprietary screen generator software 10:55:32 maybe there's documentation in the source code for their screen generator or something 10:55:43 b_jonas: I understand that they did not release the docs if you weren't supposed to program in it 10:55:52 but once you KNOW that people really program in it 10:56:00 that's the point I would release the documentation 10:56:09 possibly even *sell* the documentation to earn more money 10:56:29 instead of saying "Well, you guys just reverse engineer it. I don't care. I won't help you." 10:56:41 mroman: probably those docs were not in a releasable state 10:56:56 yeah. 10:57:04 but for gods sake they reverse engineered it :) 10:57:07 and come on, if you were the developer and someone told you thye want to develop right for that internal language, wouldn't you just LAUGH AT THEM? 10:57:11 even a not so good doc is better than nothing. 10:57:17 those people deserve not to have the docs 10:57:22 b_jonas: I would laugh 10:57:33 but I'm pretty sure I'd send them the docs I have 10:57:38 I'm a bit scared that stuff like this was actually powering banks 10:57:44 not for free probably but I'd sell them 10:58:16 Like "well, you're not supposed to do that but for 1000$ bucks I'll give you the documentation" 10:58:27 FireFly: have you looked at the scanned screenshots on github? it probably just powered credit application form printout stuff, not real banking programs 10:58:28 It's not really my problem if they program in the internal language 10:58:41 other than this means that my screen generator is crap :D 10:58:47 b_jonas: yeah, I'm reading it currently 10:59:16 so I would laugh at first, then realize that my product is apparentely so crappy, they started reverse engineering undocumented stuff and that'd make me sad 11:00:10 mroman: again, this was before 1990. think of it like that. you didn't have infinite computing resources back then. 11:00:32 reverse engineering random programs from a floppy was sort of the norm at that time 11:02:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CRAWFISH CHICKEN). 11:04:25 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:04:39 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:05:00 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 11:08:21 zzo38: operand fields ≥2200 seem to be constants, and the least significant digit of each operand seems to determine the operation somehow 11:09:07 This thing is bizarre 11:10:03 what's the highest magnitude number that appears in the source? 11:11:47 Dunno, but e.g. here a parameter is 25652, which, if I'm guessing correctly, corresponds to the constant value 365 and the operation 2 (addition or concat or something) 11:12:29 There are probably bigger numbers though, a scanned-in pdf isn't easy to search 11:13:41 ! 11:13:49 At least this seems to use ASCII 11:14:23 oh wait, never mind 11:16:35 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:17:54 well that's the right order of magnitude for a -32768 .. 32767 range 11:18:04 of 16 bits 11:22:25 > chr 89 11:22:26 'Y' 11:23:49 FireFly: >= 2200 && <= 3276 11:24:12 at least for exponentian 11:24:58 conditionals seem to use other conventions for how to denote constant values 11:25:21 10xxx seems to be a constant int, 30xxx a constant char (ASCII-encoded) 11:25:48 also operator is % 10 and operand / 10? 11:26:10 yep 11:26:13 Yeah 11:26:22 for assignemnts 11:26:37 How mid$ comes into that, I've no clue 11:26:59 you encode where to assign in the op itself, right? 11:27:12 yes 11:27:44 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:27:45 M1-10000 11:27:53 I don't get what the prompts are 11:27:59 A prompt can store an integer? 11:28:19 Me neither, but I think it could be related to the whole drawing-a-window thing 11:28:30 there's a list of prompt variables and their types and lengths at the end of the PDF 11:30:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:30:44 hm k 11:30:51 Probably from the prompt file 11:31:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:31:29 Did this thing have some Database in the background? 11:31:38 to store forms/files? 11:35:31 There are table search commands for example 11:35:51 whatever a table is 11:38:26 -!- M28_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:29 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:39:44 there are indirect prompts as well 11:39:58 No idea what indirect refers to right now 11:40:20 22002 seems to be used as a general "unused operand".. I wonder what the reference implementation would do if you passed something else instead 11:40:42 for instance, "x ← number of days between y and z" seems to be 1xxxx,yyyy9,zzzz3,22002 11:40:54 ah. There's file-io too 11:41:03 Oh? 11:41:06 yeah 11:41:27 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:41:55 16000 - 18999 11:42:13 foo = 0; if Applicant == 'Y': foo = 1; if Spouse == 'Y': foo = 1; ...; if foo == 1: ... 11:42:29 I take it this thing doesn't have a cleaner way to do "or" 11:43:06 " It took about two weeks to become fluent in the language." 11:43:13 Two weeks is actually not very long 11:43:29 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 11:45:55 Proceed If aborts if it fails? 11:46:14 there's if, block if, proceed if and reverse block proceed if whatever that is supposed to be 11:47:49 isn't it reverse block if? 11:48:03 anyway, I think that's like a do-while loop, essentially (guessing by the arrow to the left) 11:48:13 heh 11:48:30 so you're missing reverse if, reverse block if, and block proceed if? 11:48:43 reverse if wouldn't make much sense 11:48:45 and reverse proceed if 11:49:15 which of those is computed come from? 11:49:24 Neither I think 11:49:55 b_jonas: so 3101 jumps back to a previous 3101? 11:50:00 if is "conditionally execute next line", block if is "ignore until block-end if condition holds", reverse block if is the same but backwards 11:50:06 looks ilke that from the C16LNAPP 11:50:07 AIUI 11:50:13 although I haven't found a nested 3101 now 11:50:21 er, unless condition holds* 11:51:06 FireFly: so none of those have a target label? 11:51:07 -!- tertu_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:51:22 this is actually structured programming with if-endif rather than if-goto? 11:51:23 wow 11:51:27 pretty advanced for its age 11:51:30 b_jonas: yeah 11:51:39 3101 looks like it jumps back to a previous 3101 11:51:46 and 3001 jumps forward to the next 3001 11:51:48 something like that 11:52:17 b_jonas: yep. there is also "save address", "goto screen N", "return from subroutine" 11:52:31 FireFly: What's WSF*** 11:52:35 great 11:52:42 No clue 11:52:44 Are those prompts? 11:52:48 files? tables? windows? 11:53:10 :) 11:53:14 maybe you can compile brainfuck to bancstar then 11:53:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:53:35 Hm 11:53:45 hm. 11:53:48 and then claim that this is one of those trivial brainfuck variants like Ook! that only replace the symbols with a longer encoding 11:53:54 there are occurences of 3001 followed by another 3001 11:53:58 b_jonas: well, the if-endif doesn't nest 11:53:59 ] would be 3101,,, or something 11:54:01 but only followed by one endif block 11:54:09 FireFly: you only need nested do-while, not nested if 11:54:19 looks like it really jumps only to the next end block 11:54:24 do-while also does not nest I think 11:54:32 hmm 11:54:41 So compiling brainfuck would be a bit tricky 11:54:43 C16LNAPP line 00892 11:54:47 ok 11:54:54 there's a 3001, and a "nested" 3001 11:55:02 but they both end at 00900 11:55:06 (according to the arrows at least) 11:55:09 well, I guess it's more practical to just escape to machine code somehow 11:56:30 mroman: yeah, I'm guessing it's implemented by setting a flag to ignore commands, and end-of-block resets it, or some such 11:58:19 FireFly: or more likely just fast-scanning for the end of block command in a separate loop 12:01:02 why's that more likely :D? 12:01:53 -!- augur has joined. 12:03:00 -!- yorick has joined. 12:04:31 hmm, maybe they don't do either: instead the block if command just stores its label to a global variable, the end-of-block commands are preprocessed to know where the previous end-of-block statement is, and the end-of-block statements are compiled as a computed come from that kicks in when that global variable is set to anything between their address and the address of the previous end-of-block. 12:05:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:05:51 that would be simpler than either ABSTAINING FROM all statements other than end-of-block like FireFly suggests, or scanning in the code memory to find the end-of-block 12:06:58 i think ignoring commands when a global flag is set is very easy to implement ;) 12:07:54 mroman: but so is a loop to scan forward if your code is represented in as simple a way as four words per statement, first word is opcode 12:07:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:10:27 -!- mhi^ has joined. 12:11:56 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/blob/master/LIST/src/L_COMMTS.C seems to have a lot of interesting info 12:12:59 yep 12:13:10 maybe even enough to write an interpreter :D 12:14:16 FireFly: is that a code pretty printer? 12:14:24 Yes 12:14:46 the LIST utility is apparently what took a BANCStar source file and produced a listing like the pdf that was linked before 12:15:33 hee, that loop with "Deactivate F7 - activate all other F-keys" in that pretty-printer seems copy-paste code 12:15:53 not just a pretty printer 12:16:04 it annotates code with pseudo-code 12:16:26 mroman: yes. that's a pretty-printer. or call it a disassembler if you prefer. 12:17:09 I don't ;) 12:17:13 I'll call it code annotator 12:18:37 you could also call it a syntax highlighter :P 12:19:02 it typesets variables in boldtext and things 12:19:38 It's the holy grail of a tool . 12:19:45 that is, if you beleive in the holy grail 12:19:56 *believe 12:21:30 Whose bright idea was it to make the conditional operator encoding depend on the type? 12:21:57 That is, the check for inequality of strings seems to be encoded with the same operator number as >= on numbers 12:22:25 there are string variables? 12:22:34 Yes 12:22:39 I think so, at least 12:23:16 Makes sense to me, if you have input fields for things that it would be able to deal with strings too 12:23:32 so the mid and length operations operate on entire strings? is there a string concatenate operator? that'd probably be easily enough for turing-completeness 12:24:20 I thought it only operated on characters, and on fixed length arrays laid out in the 2000 words of data memory or something 12:24:59 I think we're not even sure if you have 2000 words 12:25:04 or just 2000 storage thingies 12:25:15 which can hold values of different size 12:25:22 yeah 12:25:32 There is a line that gets annotated with "Name = First Name + Middle + Last", where the only sensible interpretation I can think of is string concatenation 12:25:44 that scan includes a variable listing with lots of ALPHA stuff, but I thought that was just a character or something 12:25:48 FireFly: which line number is that? 12:25:58 00175 12:26:04 mroman: 00062 12:26:08 FireFly: wow 12:26:29 Is it esoteric if it's actually used for banking 12:26:49 "not really" esoteric 12:27:46 that's 10193 12:28:17 10193,1902,1912,1922 12:28:29 so the operators are 2,2,2 12:28:44 and operands are 190,191,192 12:28:46 Yes 12:29:00 2 is also addition (for numbers) 12:29:10 ah, so it encodes multiple operators and operands together in a command? nice 12:29:12 so 190,191,192 are prompts 12:30:04 and does 10193 encode both that this is supposed to be an arithmetic expression thing and the destination location? 12:30:18 although it seems like it just looks at operator_4? 12:30:32 b_jonas: it says "store to 193" 12:30:34 I think 12:30:47 I see 12:30:49 that it is in [10000,12000] indicates that it is a move operation, AFAIK 12:30:58 s/AFAIK/is my interpretation/ 12:31:06 makes sense 12:31:47 193 is ALPHA 55 NAME 12:31:49 so yeah 12:31:57 the 193 in 10193 is the target 12:34:06 I like how the internal programming language has an article on wikipedia, but not the application itself 12:35:00 FireFly: well the application is crap 12:35:52 FireFly: also recall the legend that says lisp has supposed to eventually have a normal input syntax, but the parenthesis stuff was good enough that it remained 12:36:32 true 12:37:28 parerthesis aren't that bady imo 12:37:31 -y 12:39:07 mroman: sure. and it's just a funny legend. 12:39:23 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:39:30 it's just that the parenthesis had become the most recognizable part 12:39:50 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 12:42:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:46:32 I searched for BANCStar in http://rosettacode.org/ and http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/ but it seems nobody is programming in it yet :-) 12:47:50 -!- general_cryptic_ has joined. 12:47:58 Ooh. It'd be nice to submit a program to CGSE once we've got this figured out 12:48:19 -!- general_cryptic_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:39 -!- general_cryptic_ has joined. 12:50:47 FireFly: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Arithmetic/Integer might be a good start 12:52:10 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:52:21 FireFly: or http://rosettacode.org/wiki/String_concatenation 12:56:19 "Go to a Function Key" just how are you supposed to branch to keys? 13:06:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:23:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:26:44 FireFly: You can also branch to ASCII keys 13:26:53 whatever that's supposed to mean 13:26:58 I think it's like GOTO PAGE 13:27:52 8500 with M3 = 40XX is apparentely goto ASCII thingy 13:28:09 There's a Multi-task menu 13:28:17 so maybe there's some multi-tasking involved ;P 13:28:34 maybe there's a dialog tab for each function key? 13:33:10 This C code reminds me of vim's source 13:33:31 though this is at least commented 13:39:02 which C code? 13:39:12 the one of BANCStar LIST? 13:42:42 Yes 13:43:18 I guess they're not all that similar, on second thought 13:55:10 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:55:36 if p^x == 1 then p^(x*y) == 1? 13:57:04 modulo something that is 13:58:26 -!- lollo64it has joined. 13:59:18 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:01:55 FireFly: Actually Vim's source code is commented good enough (IMHO), it's just the pre-K&R syntax that makes it atrocious. :) 14:02:36 and the globals, and the ifdefs 14:03:03 and the really long functions and source files... 14:04:05 Bram doens't like refactoring. Code has to evolve naturally or something... 14:07:46 mroman: I can't think of any cases where that wouldn't be the case, with real numbers at least 14:08:22 Actually 14:08:27 That only works if y is an intger 14:08:29 integer* 14:08:41 mroman: What if you had (-1)^2 14:09:16 And then y was 1/2 14:09:28 the question is 14:09:37 z^(x*(y^k)) = 1 14:09:56 does that imply that z^(x*(y^(k+1))) is also 1? 14:10:15 I don't think so 14:10:26 me too 14:10:31 although empirical evidence suggests so 14:10:57 Well, it would imply that if z was a positive number 14:11:16 it's modulo 14:11:20 so they are all positive numbers 14:11:26 Ah 14:11:45 If it's all positive or 0, then yes, it would imply that the other expression is also 1 14:11:56 I just don't see why it implies that 14:12:20 There are two cases where z^a = 1 14:12:29 Either z = 1, or a = 0 14:12:41 That's if you restrict yourself to non-negative numbers 14:13:42 But this is (mod N) 14:14:44 Still holds 14:15:31 well 14:15:37 3^1980 `mod` 15841 is 1 14:15:51 that is 3^(495*4) `mod` 15841 14:16:01 Hmm 14:16:30 > (3^(495*8)) `mod` 15841 14:16:32 1 14:16:37 > (3^(495*16)) `mod` 15841 14:16:39 1 14:16:42 > (3^(495)) `mod` 15841 14:16:44 12802 14:16:57 Hmmmmm 14:17:19 -!- general_cryptic_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:17:21 > (3^(495^2*2)) `mod` 15841 14:17:23 218 14:17:32 Ok, it seems it doesn't hold 14:17:42 yep 14:17:46 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 14:17:47 If you take the x to be 2 and 495 to be y 14:18:00 [wiki] [[Talk:Rand.Next()]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39787&oldid=39758 * Ais523 * (+435) not possible to compile arbitrary BF into it; might be curly-L-complete, depending on the RNG in question 14:18:10 I bet there is a simpler example 14:18:22 it holds for 3^(495*(2^k))) though 14:18:33 x = 495, y = 2 14:18:36 z = 3 14:18:59 i.e. once you found a k, so that the term yields 1 14:19:03 increasing k won't change the value 14:19:13 which is because you square it 14:19:17 and 1 squared is still 1 14:19:47 that's from miller-rabin btw 14:20:13 once you found z^(x*(y^k)) is one, you don't have to check any other k 14:20:57 (y is 2 for the miler-rabin case) 14:24:11 -!- password2 has joined. 14:27:28 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:29:22 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 14:31:57 well 14:32:32 x^(a*y^(k+1)) is 1 if x^(a*y^k) is 1 14:32:57 because x^(a*y^(k+1)) = x^(a*y*y^k) = (x^(a*y^k))^y 14:33:07 and (x^(a*y^k)) = 1 means that 1^y = 1 14:33:47 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:34:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 14:36:41 but on topic again 14:36:56 There are Data Model Commands o_O 14:37:08 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:38:39 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:39:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 14:50:29 mroman: Didn't we already show that it's not true mod N 14:51:27 It is true mod N 14:51:43 it's true for at least all positive integers 14:52:41 if x^(a*y^k) == 1 then x^(a*y^(k+1)) is also 1 14:53:41 If x is 3, a is 2 and y is 495... 14:53:58 And N is 15841 14:54:21 x^(a*y*y^k) = x^(a*y^(k+1)) 14:54:21 > 3^(2*495) `mod` 15841 14:54:23 218 14:54:34 Make that 4, not 2 14:54:38 > 3^(4*495) `mod` 15841 14:54:40 1 14:54:43 > 3^(4*495^2) `mod` 15841 14:54:44 1 14:54:47 > 3^(4*495^3) `mod` 15841 14:54:52 mueval: ExitFailure 1 14:54:57 > 3^(4*495^3) `mod` 15841 14:55:02 mueval: ExitFailure 1 14:55:05 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:55:17 Wait, what were we getting up there then? 14:55:30 x^(a*y*y^k) = x^(a*y^(k+1)) = (x^(a*y^k))^y 14:55:36 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 14:55:41 ^- potentiation laws 14:56:02 and (x^(a*y^k))^y is 1 if (x^(a*y^k)) is 1 14:56:06 because 1^y is always 1 14:56:11 Oh, I was multiplying by 2, not 4 14:56:14 That's why it didn't work 14:56:43 ghci gets stuck on 3^(4*495^3) 14:56:49 To be fair, it is a really big number 14:57:13 also (p-1)^2 mod p is always 1 14:57:46 generally (p-r)^2 mod p is r^2 14:57:56 I can't abuse this to modsqrt 14:57:59 though 14:58:14 About 2.314751381666169e8 digits 14:58:28 You should probably use modpow :) 14:58:35 if haskell has such a thing 14:58:36 Probably :) 14:58:42 No such thing is built in 14:58:50 -!- mihow has joined. 14:58:51 Libraries probably have it 14:58:58 Probably :) 15:00:53 and it's actually a small number 15:01:08 compared to what actual numbers you'd use in real world applications 15:01:30 probably not in bancstar though 15:02:05 although it looks like you have to give the length of a number in digits 15:12:48 mroman: 231475138 digits 15:13:14 Remembering that googol only has 100 digits 15:22:28 -!- ais523_ has joined. 15:36:12 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:48:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:50:16 -!- Bike has joined. 15:54:42 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:03:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:05:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:08:14 -!- password2 has joined. 16:12:05 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 16:13:17 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:13:23 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Changing host). 16:13:24 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:17:01 googol? 16:17:15 pff. 16:17:19 googol is a baby number 16:18:01 100 digits isn't really that much 16:18:56 > log 2 10^100 16:18:58 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num a0) 16:18:58 arising from the ambiguity check for ‘e_1210100’ 16:18:58 from the context (GHC.Num.Num a1, 16:18:58 GHC.Num.Num a, 16:18:58 GHC.Float.Floating (a1 -> a)) 16:19:02 pff 16:19:03 what 16:19:27 > logBase 2 10^100 16:19:29 1.377281663205057e52 16:19:33 hm 16:20:33 well 16:20:41 compared to 4096 bit keys that's probably way larger :D 16:21:11 > logBase 10 2^4096 16:21:13 0.0 16:21:24 ok? 16:22:04 @type logBase 16:22:06 Floating a => a -> a -> a 16:22:35 what the hell 16:22:41 2^4096 is larger than 10^100 16:23:38 > logBase 10 (2^2096 :: Integer) 16:23:39 No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Integer.Type.Integer) 16:23:39 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Float.logBase’ 16:23:46 > logBase 10 (2^2096 :: Double) 16:23:48 Infinity 16:23:56 > (100*(log 10))/log(2) 16:23:58 332.19280948873626 16:24:03 anyway, it's around 0.303*4096 16:24:04 there we go 16:24:14 > 0.3034096 16:24:15 0.3034096 16:24:21 > 0.303*4096 16:24:22 1241.088 16:24:29 a miserly 332 bits 16:31:13 also depending on how large an ALPHA can be 16:31:25 they could've stored their string constant in one large ALPHA 16:31:38 and possibly extract the strings they need later on in the code 16:31:50 although that might not be better by that much :D 16:33:48 seeking alpha 16:37:20 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 16:38:11 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:39:01 mroman: No, I think they use the CONSTANT type for string constants, probably? 16:42:17 hm 16:48:09 Although they could store multiple string constants and extract them later; such a thing is done on the first page of C16LNAPP in order to extract only one letter. 16:49:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:49:18 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:54:51 with mid$, you mean? 16:55:35 -!- password2 has joined. 16:57:08 Yes 16:57:28 zzo38: do you have a document with what you've figured out so far? 16:57:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 16:57:40 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 16:57:53 No, I have not written such a thing, but you can try searching these IRC log (which is no longer available on HackEgo, however). 16:58:18 Oh, okay 16:59:41 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:08:28 -!- AndChat|570836 has joined. 17:12:13 -!- micha2718l has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:13:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:16:36 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 17:17:07 -!- micha2718l has joined. 17:18:25 " what the hell 2^4096 is larger than 10^100" <-- it gets clearer if you consider 2^4096 = 16^1024 > 10^100 17:19:58 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:20:19 -!- AndChat|570836 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:21:09 "exponentials grow pretty fast, huh" 17:21:41 nooodl: I can't even calculate 2*13 in my head 17:21:42 so.... 17:21:44 no :) 17:21:52 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:22:17 zomg, #esoteric has lambdabot 17:22:25 mroman, also useful is remembering that 2^10 ~= 10^3 17:24:32 I can't handle numbers well ;) 17:24:51 ok so i came up with a screwy thought experiment the other day 17:25:16 suppose you take a swimming pool and fit an airtight seal over the top of it 17:25:51 then you drill a 1cm wide hole in the top, and to that attach a 20m long, open-ended tube 17:26:47 if you then hold that tube straight upright and fill it with water, that tiny bit of extra water (less than 20 litres) will increase the pressure inside the entire swimming pool to 3 atmospheres 17:27:26 the only reason i can believe this is that the alternatives sound even sillier 17:28:58 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:29:13 Phantom_Hoover: the water falls out of the tube and into the swimming pool, because the pressure inside the swimming pool is less than 3 atmospheres 17:29:29 ais523_, er, no 17:29:38 the swimming pool's sealed tight over the top, remember 17:29:49 oh, you mean the swimming pool's already full of water? 17:29:53 (assume there's no air between the surface of the pool and the seal, too) 17:29:53 in that case, exactly the same thing happens 17:30:00 ...no? 17:30:03 the pressure in the swimming pool increases slightly 17:30:09 and most of the water falls out of the tube 17:30:24 into the pool, which increases in pressure to compensate 17:30:34 eventually, you end up with a very small amount of water left in the tube 17:30:37 er, ais 17:30:40 water is incompressible 17:30:46 err, no? 17:30:50 what do you think water pressure /is/? 17:30:55 it's caused by the compression of wate 17:30:56 *water 17:31:08 So how big is your pool? 17:31:08 if you assume that a) water pressure exists, and b) water is incompressible, that explains why you're getting silly results 17:31:46 or put it another way: assume I have two completely sealed boxes of water, one at 1 atmosphere of pressure, the other at 3 atmospheres of pressure 17:31:50 no seriously, the pressure might be caused by compression but that compression is negligible in terms of volume 17:32:04 what is the difference between the boxes that determines the difference in pressure? 17:32:10 answer: one has more water molecules than the other 17:32:15 this is why when you're scuba diving you never get crushed, your body's largely made of incompressible water 17:32:21 no, ais, that's completely wrong 17:32:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility 17:32:44 Phantom_Hoover: you don't get crushed because the water inside your body increases in pressure to match the water outside 17:32:53 If you take a serious pool, 25*20*3m, then if I haven't messed up my calculations you'll need something like 150 liters of water to compensate for 200kPa of extra pressure. 17:33:00 which by your logic would require that it should be compressible 17:33:09 er, *that it should be compressed 17:33:31 Phantom_Hoover: your link doesn't contradict what I or int-e are saying 17:33:46 "The low compressibility of non-gases, and of water in particular, leads to their often being assumed as incompressible. The low compressibility of water means that even in the deep oceans at 4 km depth, where pressures are 40 MPa, there is only a 1.8% decrease in volume." 17:34:05 the fact that water compressibility is low means that the pressure will increase quite rapidly as you put more water into the swimming pool 17:34:07 (4km depth is ~400 atmospheres, for reference) 17:34:23 but if it's only a very small extra proportion, like in your experiment 17:34:28 it won't have that much extra to increase 17:34:50 int-e, it's possible btw that i'm misinterpreting the formula for pressure in a static fluid 17:34:52 (150l, of course, is ridculously small compared to the 1.5 million liters that the pool contains) 17:35:27 or, well, I guess if you "fill the tube with water" 17:35:39 then that involves adding enough water into the tube to increase the pressure of the swimming pool to 3atm 17:35:52 which will be more than the capacity of the tube, but not by all that much because water compresses poorly 17:35:58 int-e, specifically, the density * gravitational field strength * depth formula 17:36:38 Phantom_Hoover: that's just for calculating the pressure. if you turn it into a proper intregral it's even true for compressible fluids 17:36:54 yeah, i know 17:37:57 so my reasoning is that because it's 20m from the pool to the surface of the water (in the tube), the pressure in the pool is the same as if the entire pool were 20m deep 17:38:09 Phantom_Hoover: it's just that you're multiplying something ridiculously small (compressibility of water) by something ridiculously large (the surface area of the pool divided by that of the hole and cylinder above) 17:38:29 Phantom_Hoover: yes, that's true 17:38:48 but if you just add enough water to fill the tube, the tube won't be full. 17:39:08 and if you keep pouring water in until the tube is full, then you will have 3atm of pressure at the bottom of the pool 17:39:08 because the water in the pool is compressed just a litte. 17:39:23 hmm 17:39:26 ais523_: at the top actually :) 17:39:41 that doesn't sound unreasonable actually 17:39:44 (oh. depending on how you hold the tube.) 17:39:57 int-e: err, of the top of the pool itself, yeah 17:40:03 the pressure at the top of the tube is 1atm, obviously 17:43:19 hmm, now I'm reading some of the rest of the article Phantom_Hoover linked to 17:43:29 and thought "huh, I'd never wondered before today whether ice conducted electricity" 17:46:30 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 17:46:54 When typing an address on an envelope, is it supposed to be Pica or Elite? 17:48:38 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:49:12 -!- conehead has joined. 17:49:17 zzo38: whichever one fits 10 characters to the inch, IIRC 17:49:20 I forget which is which 17:49:30 OK 17:49:38 the wider one, that is 17:50:09 The instructions say Pica is ten character per inch 17:50:43 in that case, Elite must be 12 per inch 17:50:44 i guess int-e's explanation is correct 17:50:55 (though... idk, if you used a less compressible fluid...) 17:52:09 Phantom_Hoover: this is like the thought experiment of a perfectly inelastic floor 17:52:40 which makes anything placed on it much more fragile, as a result 17:53:16 but just a couple orders of magnitude less! 17:53:51 -!- AndChat|570836 has joined. 17:53:57 because it doesn't absorb impact of stuff? 17:54:56 nooodl: yep 17:54:57 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:55:21 and ofc, it's impossible to place a perfectly inelastic object on a perfectly inelastic floor unless you slow it down to a speed of exactly 0 as it touches 17:55:25 otherwise, one or the other mustb reak 17:55:30 *break 17:55:36 then go on breaking, and go on breaking, ad infinitum 17:55:55 until they end up as dust so fine any elasticity properties become meaningless 17:56:02 -!- micha2718l has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:56:09 i dunno though, this isn't that extreme 17:56:48 i did run through the calculations, but with a small pool and a more incompressible fluid you could still recreate the desired effect 17:57:28 why not just hire a swimming pool and find out? 17:57:42 because of the 'airtight seal over the pool' part 17:57:44 (the hard part is finding a seal for the top which can withstand 3atm of pressure) 17:58:27 http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?easy+regexp/irori_1173885553&hs i love haskell code like this am i bad 17:59:02 yes 17:59:08 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:59:12 I wouldn't think to make you love Haskell code like whatever make you bad 17:59:35 is that third line defining an operator #? 17:59:40 yup 17:59:44 IIRC, in OCaml, you have to use prefix notation to define an operator 17:59:45 the ones below it define % 18:01:22 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 18:01:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Changing host). 18:01:51 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:02:18 oh my god: the m -> (%) -> (#) -> m mutual recursion. it's so good 18:02:57 what single ascii chars are available as operators if you have just Prelude loaded? 18:02:58 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:03:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:04:09 i know % ? and # are popular in code golf, that i know of 18:04:46 oh i guess & is available. because that's a lens thing 18:04:56 (imagines Lens golf, shudders) 18:05:29 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 18:06:16 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:06:48 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:06:54 > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 2 + 2 18:06:56 5 18:07:28 i think it's (%), (?), (#), (&), (!) 18:07:29 > let 2 + 2 = 5 in 1 + 1 18:07:30 *Exception: :3:5-13: Non-exhaustive patterns in function + 18:08:27 also, wonderful unicode punctuation, which anagol, however, counts as multiple bytes 18:08:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:09:37 nooodl: Which it should, but maybe it can still help if you use the high codepoint symbols for less used ones 18:09:48 (Anagol also uses binary formats too) 18:09:49 > let (☃) = (+) in 2 ☃ 2 18:09:51 4 18:11:50 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:14:23 if it uses UTF-8, though, you're wasting bytes by using non-ASCII characters 18:16:10 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 18:16:19 > generalCategory '☃' 18:16:21 OtherSymbol 18:31:50 [wiki] [[User:GermanyBoy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39788&oldid=39738 * GermanyBoy * (+449) 18:32:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Changing host). 18:32:54 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 18:35:38 ais523_: Yes, that is it. But it is what I am saying, one characters with more than seven bits, will use more bytes to encode using UTF-8 so you would use those for less often codes. 18:36:32 If you are using a programming language/interpreter/compiler that doesn't require UTF-8, then you can do a lot more too, since you are not limited to UTF-8 encoding and can therefore shorten some things. 18:37:55 -!- AndChat|570836 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:39:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 18:40:06 I had idea about writing a Japanese-style manga using some help (although I probably never would do so, actually). It is called "Pokemon Card", and in it Professor Oak invents Pokemon Card, and the pokemons can talk (including the ones pictured on the cards) too, and many strange thing like you find in Akagi too. 18:40:19 Would such a things interest you at all? I am just curious. 18:41:25 ( update S [True,"foo",Z] 18:41:25 [True, "foo", 1] : HVect [Bool, String, Nat] 18:41:32 ( update not [True,"foo",Z] 18:41:33 [False, "foo", 0] : HVect [Bool, String, Nat] 18:42:01 ( update (++ "bar") [True,"foo",Z] 18:42:01 [True, "foobar", 0] : HVect [Bool, String, Nat] 18:42:30 -!- micha2718l has joined. 18:44:20 -!- micha2718l has quit (Client Quit). 18:46:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:50:47 -!- _1_alexandro2 has joined. 18:50:51 <_1_alexandro2> hi 18:51:34 -!- _1_alexandro2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:58:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:00:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:00:14 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:00:48 -!- Bike has joined. 19:07:09 -!- mihow has joined. 19:10:27 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:12:26 #define __NR_oldolduname 59 19:16:07 fungot: what's your old old name? 19:16:07 olsner: they decided not to waste any brain cells storing obscure unix silliness). 19:16:22 fungot: p. good decision 19:16:23 olsner: now i started that mud as roleplayer make one cringe? back in seattle, and hang around here 19:19:48 #define __NR_fcntl64 221 19:19:49 /* 223 is unused */ 19:19:49 #define __NR_gettid 224 19:20:17 222 is not unused, it's just [REDACTED] 19:20:28 shachaf: are you having as much fun with syscall.h as I was with the Perl headers? 19:20:58 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 19:22:29 I was just looking through it, but it turns out it has all sorts of jams. 19:22:38 What about the Perl headers? 19:22:54 they're massively inconsistent in capitalization style 19:23:08 and have some great names, too 19:23:11 <+ais523_> also, so far, my favourite macro name inside the Perl core is "SV_CHECK_THINKFIRST_COW_DROP" 19:23:18 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 19:23:19 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:23:35 `quote COW_DROP 19:23:35 No output. 19:24:41 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:26:18 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:28:59 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 19:29:30 -!- TodPunk has joined. 19:32:01 [wiki] [[Lii]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39789 * GermanyBoy * (+5210) Created page with "'''Lii''' is a declarative object-oriented language created by [[User:GermanyBoy]] in 2014. It is named after a fictional 31st century tea company Lii Tea (from a SciFi book, ..." 19:33:02 [wiki] [[User:GermanyBoy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39790&oldid=39788 * GermanyBoy * (+45) /* Summer languages 2014 */ Lii 19:33:39 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39791&oldid=39784 * GermanyBoy * (+10) /* L */ 19:34:43 come to think of it, the reason that macro's required is almost as silly as the name 19:35:49 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:42:47 I won't even ask the inevitable question 19:43:31 what's the deal w/ airline food 19:44:00 -!- aloril has joined. 19:48:14 Bicyclidine: whatever the deal, it's no big deal 20:02:37 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:05:46 everything in math.h is deterministic, right? i'm losing my mind here 20:06:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:06:30 nah, it's mostly just undefined behavior 20:14:59 IIRC math.h might have some uncertainty in the last bit or somesuch 20:15:19 Because they can't guarantee precision on all the bits for all special functions 20:15:25 And so it might depend on the implementation 20:16:22 Although the basic functions have a precision that is guaranteed to be deterministic 20:17:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:17:30 i'm getting results divergent by a multiple of 10^280 or so, is the thing 20:17:54 Well what's 10^280, really 20:17:58 Barely a thing 20:18:19 also i can no longer reproduce the nondeterminism, so, thinking my computer's haunted or such 20:18:43 The gods of computers are smiling on you 20:19:18 no, it stopped nondtermining on the results with 2800 dB 20:20:07 > 1024/log 10 * log 2 20:20:09 308.2547155599167 20:20:45 if math.h follows IEEE (which may or may not be required by C), then I think most operations are defined to give the exact result according to some rules 20:22:42 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:22:42 but some stuff might not have such requirements? 20:22:48 `? math 20:22:49 math? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:25:48 olsner: i recall from previous discussion that there are some operations where it is not known how to calculate the perfectly rounded result, so either of the neighboring closest numbers is accepted. 20:26:13 *efficiently calculate 20:27:09 trigonometry and stuff, iirc 20:27:49 alas IEEE does not define the "f(n) if machine n halts, otherwise zero" operation 20:29:54 [wiki] [[Pi]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39792&oldid=39717 * 63.251.123.2 * (+48) add link to IDEOne copy 20:30:28 <`^_^v> f(n) = 1 20:30:41 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:31:07 f(n) = 0 is easier to handle 20:33:19 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 20:33:21 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 20:33:21 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 20:33:29 -!- Jafet has joined. 20:33:34 -!- EgoBot has joined. 20:33:40 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:36:30 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:36:50 [wiki] [[Pi]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39793&oldid=39792 * 63.251.123.2 * (+0) is [[:Category:Brainfuck equivalents]] 20:39:18 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 20:40:20 -!- Jafet has left. 20:40:46 what the hell is Photo Library? 20:43:17 those Phising mails get more confusing 20:43:40 you're not even sure whether it's a serious phishing mail or a serious extortion mail or a serious joke 20:44:15 it' doesn't even say which website it tries to phish 20:44:44 try replying ;) 20:47:59 mroman: did someone point out yet that p^(x*y) == (p^x)^y ? 20:48:10 no 20:48:16 oh wait 20:48:16 yes 20:48:19 but no 20:48:22 I already knew that 20:48:42 ooh, freefall has a stand-up comedian :) 20:48:58 well then obviously if p^x is 1, so is p^(x*y) 20:49:07 (and this all works mod N) 20:49:41 > 1^(0/0) 20:49:43 Could not deduce (GHC.Real.Integral b0) 20:49:44 arising from a use of ‘GHC.Real.^’ 20:49:44 from the context (GHC.Num.Num a) 20:49:44 bound by the inferred type of it :: GHC.Num.Num a => a at Top level 20:49:44 The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous 20:49:46 > 1**(0/0) 20:49:48 1.0 20:50:05 yeah. the tough part was figuring out that you can rewrite a^(x*y^(k+1)) as a^(x*(y^k)*y) 20:50:29 fiendish ~ 20:51:07 (I'm not very good at match) 20:51:11 math 20:51:16 also not very good at spelling 20:51:24 although I can write 120 WPM 20:51:52 1 2 0 W P M. 20:51:53 finedish 20:52:04 that wasn't so hard :P 20:52:11 -!- Sorella_ has joined. 20:52:15 I overuse those smileys, don't I. 20:52:21 int-e, :P 20:52:28 Also, I went to Alton Towers today 20:52:30 That was fun 20:52:38 120 words per minute feels really fast 20:52:47 but compared to the guys who can write 200 WPM it's slow as hell 20:52:58 seeing as the average internet user is somewhere around 60 WPM 20:53:07 > 120^2/200 -- hell, in words per minute 20:53:09 72.0 20:53:22 which I don't really beleive but that's what does websites say 20:53:28 60 WPM is terribly slow 20:53:31 I can do that one handed 20:54:01 -!- edwardk has joined. 20:54:04 I should learn to touch-type. I've been thinking that for 15 years :) 20:54:18 on touchscreen keyboards? 20:54:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 20:54:26 -!- Sorella has quit (*.net *.split). 20:54:27 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 20:54:27 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 20:54:28 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 20:54:30 In the meantime I tend to type faster than I think. 20:54:47 I tend to write phonetically 20:54:47 mroman: no, on normal mechanical ones 20:54:52 mroman, yeah, same 20:55:03 then you have no real reason to learn touch typing, except perhaps to get slightly more time left over for thinking 20:55:07 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:55:09 I almost wrote "advantage" instead of "about it" a few minutes ago 20:55:30 what's touch-type then? 20:55:44 it could be more (or less) ergonomic to do touch typing than ad-hoc typing though 20:55:47 typing with most fingers resting on the home row 20:56:05 "d) is typing without using the sense of sight to find the keys." 20:56:22 unlike hunt-and-peck typing where the hands wander all over the keyboard. 20:56:33 (often but not always at horrible speed) 20:56:36 home row is a stupid concept I think 20:56:54 and you can ask the fastest typer in the world and he'll say the same thing 20:57:11 it's a guy? 20:57:12 your hands are supposed to wander all over the place 20:57:30 Bicyclidine: I don't really know if he's officially the fastest 20:57:33 but his > 200WPM 20:57:35 *he's 20:58:00 the way I type is an extension of hunt-and-peck I think 20:58:04 I don't use the home row 20:58:11 `thanks banks 20:58:12 Thanks, banks. Thanks. 20:58:15 my fingers wander all over the place when necessary 20:58:24 but I can type without looking at the keyboard of course 20:58:49 The idea is, that you can use your index finger 20:58:59 close your eyes, move the index finger to your nose 20:59:11 and then somebody says a key and you can press that key with your index finger 20:59:16 without looking 20:59:22 mroman: could you check whether you mean WPM or CPM please? 20:59:28 what's CPM? 20:59:35 characters per second 21:00:08 it's WPM 21:00:11 per minute even 21:00:34 where a word is defined as 5 characters 21:00:40 > 120*5 21:00:42 600 21:00:49 that's 600 characters per minute 21:00:58 not counting spaces I think 21:01:09 > 600/60 21:01:11 10.0 21:01:18 that's 10 characters per second 21:02:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:02:29 To type that fast you memorize word patterns and just spill them out very fast 21:02:35 by "twitching" your finger 21:02:59 stuff like contest, content, sentence can be written incredibly fast 21:03:03 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:03:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:03:38 other words like quickly are harder for me to type 21:03:50 omnious 21:03:54 mostly due to two vowels in a row 21:04:17 (including a free typo!) 21:04:18 I can only use my left index finger to type 21:04:34 which is why I can't write words with two or more vowels in a row fast 21:04:45 (left index finger to type vowels) 21:05:18 dvorak? 21:05:29 also obviously I can't keep up 120 WPM for more than two minutes :D 21:05:31 int-e: yep 21:07:15 I can type on it better because my left hand is clumsy 21:07:32 and dvorak enables me to type vowels with my left hand and rest I can write with my very nimble right hand 21:07:58 also my pinky finger are somewhat "trigger fingerish" 21:08:06 so I dont' really use them to type too 21:08:15 which breaks the whole home row system anyway 21:08:29 -!- Melvar has joined. 21:08:55 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:09:20 int-e: are you using qwerty? 21:09:32 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:09:54 I'm still waiting for text to speech programming 21:10:09 which will probably bring other programming languages to live 21:10:41 saying int space main paranthesis right int space argc comma char asteriks asteriks ... is tedious 21:11:05 wait 21:11:08 that's speech to text 21:11:14 yes I'm using a qwerty layout keyboard 21:11:16 COMPUTER, PLOT A COURSE TO THE B NEBULA 21:12:14 (which is already slightly odd in Austria) 21:12:31 you're an ostritch? 21:12:52 austrian 21:13:18 I'm from Germany originally. Close enough. 21:13:23 ah 21:13:31 Dann kannst du ja Deutsch :) 21:13:40 Nie und nimmer. 21:13:59 It's "ostrich" actually... 21:14:16 In any case I use English all the time. 21:14:26 at home too? 21:14:41 Being single, yes, certainly. 21:14:44 oh 21:15:09 (reading english books, being on english speaking IRC channels, reading... well, all sorts of computer related stuff) 21:15:15 Yeah me too 21:15:30 reading english books, watching tv series in english, movies in english 21:15:39 I actually think in english 21:15:44 dreams too sometimes 21:15:56 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: g2g). 21:16:02 and by thinking I mean those monologues you do in your brain 21:16:15 I know what you mean 21:18:30 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:18:47 I only use it "written" though 21:18:54 No one to "talk" to 21:19:53 I'm working in academia, and a few of my colleagues don't even speak german. 21:22:20 schrecklich 21:23:03 ugloubli 21:24:05 unmglisch 21:25:58 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:29:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:42:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:01:08 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:03:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:06:52 -!- boily has joined. 22:07:17 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 22:26:50 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:31:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:34:54 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:43:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:05:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:05:14 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:09:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:16:56 -!- Sorella_ has changed nick to Sorella. 23:17:05 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 23:17:05 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:30:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:31:38 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:32:25 -!- Bike has joined. 23:44:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:45:51 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:53:12 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:56:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:59:52 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-06-11: 00:17:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:40:47 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:53:11 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 00:56:47 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:03:02 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:08:49 I'm a bit in shock about this elixir-lang.org unit testing example 01:09:09 It's a testing DSL not written in weird pseudoenglish! 01:44:34 -!- madbr has joined. 02:40:35 I made a table to compare different online quiz systems. There are some details I have not been able to determine. Do you know? Furthermore, maybe I can also add more rows/columns based on your requests/investigations, too? 02:48:33 See gopher://zzo38computer.org/0textfile/miscellaneous/onlinequiz.txt or http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/onlinequiz.txt for more information please. 02:48:41 Do you know of any that I have missed? 02:52:19 The Windows App store does not have any apps that support gopher 02:56:24 Then don't use the Windows App store. Or, download the file over HTTP. (Or, both!) 03:00:09 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 03:01:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:03:02 -!- Bike has joined. 03:16:36 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:17:26 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:25:45 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:28:19 Which online quiz system have you used at all? 03:29:32 help i keep calling spiderman superman 03:31:06 pretty sure i started typing superman first even in that line 03:39:38 help im addicted to stacksort 03:40:10 get hype sgeo 03:42:17 help im addicted to starting statements with help 03:43:01 zzo38: I think I used Internet Quiz Engine once. 03:43:43 kmc: whoa, https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/5342238 03:47:03 shachaf: You have used? Have you used others, and whether or not, what is your opinion of such things please? 03:47:17 I don't remember whether I used it. 03:47:37 O, you only *thought* you used it... 03:47:42 Isn't it? 03:48:04 Well, what is your opinion of that chart, then? 03:48:43 Was it running on your gopher server? 03:49:13 Internet Quiz Engine is running on my gopher server. 03:49:23 Unfortunately I don't have a gopher client here. 03:50:07 Write one if you want; is not too difficult to do. You can read the chart downloaded from HTTP or gopher; it is available on both. 03:50:39 (And simply downloading a file from gopher is pretty easy; to pipe "echo" into "nc" and then piping or redirecting the output of that, will work just fine.) 03:51:40 For example, to download that chart over gopher, connect to port 70 of my computer, and then send "textfile/miscellaneous/onlinequiz.txt" (without the quotation marks) and a carriage return and line feed. The response is entirely the file; there is no header. 03:53:19 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:53:59 Can I just send a line feed? 03:54:53 My own server will accept that, although to be standards-compliant you should use both. 03:55:11 (Other servers are not guaranteed to accept it.) 03:55:21 (Although they probably do anyways.) 04:02:44 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 04:05:02 Sounds almost like HTTP 0.9 04:05:33 Which iirc causes security problems for the web in its mere existence somehow. I forget how though 04:06:03 yeah, that's mentioned in _The Tangled Web_ 04:06:04 was it lack of content-type header? 04:06:26 lcamtuf is smart 04:06:28 HTTP 0.9 does not cause security problems by itself, but in combination with other things, it is capable of doing so. 04:06:30 you can make somebody go to http://whatever:25 and it'll try to interpret the SMTP server's response as HTML 04:06:43 and sometimes you can manage to get javascript in there somehow 04:06:50 ahh right 04:06:54 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:07:05 but also if you get javascript in :25 thats a diff origin than :80 04:07:09 true 04:07:12 I forget what all is going on here 04:07:17 I don't think it is for cookies 04:07:17 kmc: That isn't really much of a security issue, *as long as cookies specify the port number too* 04:07:19 I think cookies have different rules than other origin stuff 04:07:21 It is for XMLHttpRequest 04:07:22 it's all completely fucked basically 04:07:29 This is why fuck cookies 04:07:33 although maybe not on all versions of IE.. i know ie has some weird things with origins sometimes 04:07:42 ie. I believe localhost is one origin, no matter what port, in IE 04:08:08 newsham: you need to send P3P headers to do cross-origin domain cookie stuff, I ... think. Which may make IE more secure than Chrome/Firefox in some circumstances. 04:08:10 if you dont use any "ambient credentials" lots of web problems go away 04:08:14 (so do lots of web solutions :) 04:08:17 Also, full HTTP clients shouldn't use headerless requests/responses; only lightweight clients should do so. 04:08:34 sgeo: but localhost:80 and localhost:25 are not cross-origin 04:08:58 (in IE) 04:10:19 i learned a new web thing today.. "" tag.. not closeable.. "deprecated" and unsupported, but works on all the big browsers 04:10:21 <zzo38> newsham: Using SSH for interactive service and authentication and security, causes much better security. One possible security issue would then be escape codes to change key bindings, although that can be fixed really easily. Another possible security issue would then be trusted X forwarding, but you can just disable trusted X forwarding. 04:10:30 <zzo38> newsham: I have used <plaintext> actually 04:10:33 <newsham> (only thing I found so far that didnt honor it properly was lynx) 04:10:38 <zzo38> So I knew it about a lot 04:11:15 <kmc> newsham: yeah, it's in the HTML5 Living Standard: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#plaintext-state 04:11:18 <zzo38> Security issues between servers don't exist with SSH. 04:11:23 <Sgeo> Isn't there old HTML stuff othat also still exists? 04:11:31 <Sgeo> What was that input thing that took over the browser? 04:11:38 <newsham> zzo38: in fairness if you're going to compare apples to apples, you should prob compare ssh to using client certs in https 04:11:41 <kmc> which specifies exact handling of a lot of erroneous markup that is officially deprecated and unsupported and wrong 04:11:56 * kmc is currently implementing the html5 syntax standard... 04:11:59 <Sgeo> Well, not took over. But it was one input field a document 04:12:10 <newsham> hmm, its in html5 standard? MDN said its "deprecated" since "html 2.0" 04:12:18 <kmc> yes 04:12:23 <newsham> mdn wrong.. go figger 04:12:29 <kmc> I don't think it is 04:12:31 <newsham> thanks for the info, i didnt know 04:12:41 <kmc> the point of HTML5 is to provide precise error handling behavior for all kinds of bad deprecated wrong things 04:12:44 <zzo38> newsham: I know HTTPS supports certificates, but there is still HTML and HTTP and stuff to deal with!!! Also, the authentication in HTTPS isn't quite best anyways 04:12:56 <kmc> there's one part of the spec that says what constitutes "correct" HTML and another part which says how browsers have to handle incorrect HTML 04:13:08 <zzo38> But about <plaintext>, you could use XML to avoid such issue? 04:13:09 <newsham> zzo38: how is the auth in https unlike the auth in ssh? 04:13:16 <kmc> you can feed poorly written geocities HTML from 1995 into a modern HTML5 parser and get as plausible a "correct" result as any 04:13:19 <zzo38> newsham: It is a subset, I think. 04:13:30 <zzo38> Actually, not quite. 04:13:52 <newsham> fwiw, I believe using client certs (and properly verifying both client and server certs) is pretty good auth in https 04:13:53 <zzo38> HTTPS supports HTTP authentication as well as its own, but SSH authentication supports more secure methods than just simple passwords. 04:13:53 <kmc> if you feed it into a HTML5 /validator/ it will scream bloody murder 04:14:01 <Sgeo> <ISINDEX> 04:14:06 <newsham> https isnt passwords, its certificate-based 04:14:08 <zzo38> You can also use public/private key pairs, and that stuff 04:14:09 <Sgeo> Does <ISINDEX> exist in HTML5? 04:14:25 <zzo38> newsham: You still need a password to log in, though, even though a certificate is used. 04:14:47 <newsham> not necessarily. a server could accept a client certificate as authentication without requiring a password 04:15:12 <newsham> they often dont solely because they arent implemented at the same layers (ie. some apps dont "know"that client certs are being used, and so require their own auth layer) 04:15:22 <newsham> but that would also be the case when tunneling http over ssh 04:15:41 <zzo38> newsham: I didn't know about client certificate, although yes I can see the problem. 04:15:42 <Bike> oh man, i remember isindex 04:15:54 <zzo38> But the solution is *don't* tunnel HTTP over SSH; tunnel the application directly. 04:15:58 <Sgeo> http://www.the-pope.com/isin.shtml 04:15:58 <Bike> Sgeo: wikipedia says it was invalid in 4 strict, i don't know how that transfers to 5 04:16:51 <Bike> i think my favorite little bit of the historical cruft is how <u> and <i> are retrofitted into the whole presentation/content whatever distinction 04:17:10 <Sgeo> I think <nextid> was for use by some HTML generator? 04:18:28 <Sgeo> "This element served to enable the NeXT web designing tool to generate automatic NAME labels for its anchors" 04:18:47 <Sgeo> "It is also probably one of the least understood of all of the early HTML elements, being poorly documented, not explained in any depth anywhere, and those who obviously understood how it worked couldn't be bothered to explain it to the rest of us." 04:18:58 <Bike> NeXT had web tools, huh 04:19:08 <Bike> oh btw did everyone hear that xanadu has a working demo now. 04:19:11 <Sgeo> http://www.the-pope.com/nextid.html 04:19:19 <Sgeo> Who is the pope anyway? 04:19:29 <Bike> francis i, i think 04:19:30 <newsham> bike: isnt <blink> the best historic tag? 04:19:55 <Bike> Sgeo: ok the top of the site looks like alt-catholics and they're nutso. 04:20:33 <Bike> newsham: blink wasn't even standard!! inferior. 04:20:46 <newsham> "standards" heh.. 04:20:52 <newsham> the web was never very compliant :) 04:21:08 <Sgeo> Bike: the rest of the site was apparently built using legacy HTML 04:21:11 <zzo38> HTML/HTTPS is just a big mess in these times. 04:21:11 <Bike> u and i are funny because they tried to hammer them out back in 4 but then they decided they, like, totally had semantic meaning, man 04:21:12 <Sgeo> No wonder the interest 04:21:12 <Sgeo> http://www.the-pope.com/cgi/topical.pl 04:21:46 <Bike> there's an alt-catholic church near me that i found out about because splc classed them as a hate group, so like, yeah 04:21:51 <newsham> isnt <b> pretty much formatting too? 04:21:57 <Bike> yeah. 04:22:15 <zzo38> Bike: What is an "alt-catholic church" and how is it hate groups too? 04:22:33 <newsham> html is in generall pretty lame. 04:22:50 <Sgeo> Did... did hypertext not exist in the earliest versionss of hypertext markup language? 04:22:51 <Bike> zzo38: my incorrect term for catholics who reject various modern catholic rules, most usually the Vatican II conference thingie, so they're out of communion 04:23:00 <Sgeo> I do not understand why these words are not hypertext 04:23:00 <newsham> ages ago back in college the cs dept guys would write html with a preprocessor that was very much tex-like. macros and similar syntax 04:23:02 <zzo38> Bike: O, OK. 04:23:04 <newsham> much better than html :) 04:23:20 <newsham> {b this is bold} or something like that 04:23:31 <kmc> haha 04:23:42 <newsham> most importantly though -- supported macros 04:23:45 <Sgeo> Why, the pope, why? 04:23:49 <newsham> why html doesnt do macros is beyond me 04:23:52 <zzo38> There are security issues, very complicated implementation-related stuff, and so much confusions, even problem with different kind of user interfaces you need separate files for each one, etc. 04:24:49 <zzo38> Gopher doesn't have any of these problems (although it doesn't have security either, but it doesn't really need it; if you want it anyways you can tunnel it over SSH). For applications with authentication and interactivity and so on, SSH should be used. 04:24:54 <Bike> apparently the usual term is "traditionalist" 04:25:20 <newsham> aka "luddite" 04:25:35 <zzo38> Gopher is suitable such as well for desktop, touch-screen, even scantron form, all without needing separate file on the server for each one. 04:25:45 <Bike> as for hate group, i looked at their website, it had stuff about how they'd throw you out if you were a woman wearing pants or something so i stopped 04:26:25 <newsham> i kind of like the plan9/acme style of "hypertext" more than the html style. 04:26:37 <Bike> xanadu maaaaan 04:26:46 <newsham> or at least it seems more promising.. html has really been explored a lot more fully 04:27:13 <newsham> but basically you write rules that say how text is to be interpretted, and those rules apply automatically to the text, without explicit markup 04:27:33 <newsham> so for example if there's an "http://www.foo.com/bar" it knows "thats an url for a web page, use the browser" 04:27:37 <zzo38> I tend to use plain text documents for a lot of things; it mean you can download and view file just fine even without web-browser software. 04:27:46 <Bike> i think hypertext should work as bush originally envisioned it. microfilm. 04:27:47 <newsham> and if there's a "/file/path:lineno" it knows "thats a file location, use an editor" 04:28:04 <newsham> and if you dont like the linking rules, you tweak them to suit your needs 04:28:04 <Bike> so... url schema? 04:28:07 <Bike> oh. 04:28:53 <kmc> zzo38: what do you think of plan9? 04:29:00 <kmc> it seems like your kind of thing 04:29:13 <Sgeo> http://www.the-pope.com/lostHTML.htm 04:29:20 <Sgeo> So, this person knows of HTML 5.0 04:30:14 <zzo38> kmc: I don't know much about, but I think it has some good ideas involved certainly. The Plan9 file protocol also would be suitable for example, to connect to hard disks and file servers and stuff using a TCP/IP protocol, whether or not the device natively uses such thing. 04:30:20 <newsham> anyway in plan9 its the "plumber" that does this, and it has support integrated into the acme environment (among other places). docs are here http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man4/plumber.html 04:31:10 <zzo38> Plan9 is not a bad design. 04:31:32 <Sgeo> What are these <hp0> things? 04:31:42 <Bike> tags of the devil 04:31:45 <kmc> zzo38: qemu lets you share a directory on the host as a 9p filesystem mounted by the guest 04:32:14 <zzo38> kmc: Yes, that is good idea too 04:32:20 <kmc> this might be one of the main uses of 9p anymore 04:32:37 <Bike> "However, protest from the Joe Sixpack programmers" 04:33:01 <kmc> newsham: line numbers are good, I have a small script which lets me write "vim foo.rs:1234" and it will open foo.rs and jump to line 1234 04:33:12 <newsham> yah i have a script like that too :) 04:33:16 <kmc> :) 04:33:22 <newsham> but still nicer in plan9 just clickign on it 04:33:27 <kmc> it exists in the platonic realm of shell scripts 04:33:39 <newsham> also plan9's supports filename:5-10 and filename:/main/ and other goodies 04:34:19 <newsham> i think 9p is also used by some window manager or other, too (not to mention plan9ports, which is a plan9-like mini environment on modern unix) 04:35:01 <zzo38> You can use multi mouse button for other functions, for example left to copy, middle to paste, right to activate, might be one way. 04:35:15 <kmc> what does filename:/main/ mean? 04:35:22 <newsham> kmc: open file, search regex 04:35:27 <kmc> o_O 04:35:28 <kmc> fancy 04:35:54 <Bike> i remember i thought up a system GUI once that was basically chrome 04:35:57 <Bike> i forget if chromebooks do it 04:36:08 <Sgeo> http://www.the-pope.com/sgmlcraz.html 04:36:10 <Bike> cos i had my computer set up to never have sub-screen windows. 04:36:13 <newsham> nifty thing of having the ability to clikc that, you just put /* see main.c:/main/ */ in your src and now yoru src's have xref hyperlinks 04:36:46 <kmc> Bike: i used to have a windows 98SE install where i told it to launch quake 3 instead of explorer.exe 04:36:49 <newsham> p9 man pages are like that too, you just click on man pages to go to other man pages, or to go straight to the srcs 04:36:50 <kmc> boot2quake3 04:36:55 <Bike> excellent 04:37:01 <Bike> you've probably seen the sysadmin-through-doom thing 04:37:05 <zzo38> newsham: Yes, I can see that can nicely too 04:37:06 <kmc> yes 04:37:07 <kmc> psdoom 04:37:12 <kmc> I enjoyed that a lot as a kid :) 04:37:12 <Bike> good stuff 04:37:13 <shachaf> speaking of good things google code search is so good 04:37:21 <newsham> you could prob do that in yyour editor if its html based, but you'dhave to use explicit markup somehow 04:37:23 <shachaf> i wish it still existed externally and searched everything 04:37:29 <newsham> vs. just writing a rule to auto-markup 04:39:00 <newsham> http://vimeo.com/64487176 <- plumber demo on vimeo 04:39:09 -!- tertu has joined. 04:40:05 <zzo38> Is it possible to make on Linux virtual console that you can push mouse to copy/paste a text between them, and the PAUSE to pause window, and SCROLL LOCK to do a scrollback by keys (page-up/page-down) and make it buffer rather than display further text? 04:41:18 <newsham> i think you can scrollup on console while it continues to buffer more output 04:41:31 <newsham> you can definitely do it in tmux and screen 04:42:00 <zzo38> I never tried pushing SCROLL LOCK on Linux to see what it does, so I don't know. 04:42:19 <newsham> i think its control-pageup or something like that to scrollback on linux console? 04:42:22 <newsham> maybe alt? 04:42:47 <zzo38> I haven't tried those things either. How do you set the scroll buffer size? 04:45:39 <newsham> baked into kernel srcs i imagine? i dont know offhand 04:46:06 <newsham> http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Keyboard-and-Console-HOWTO-18.html 04:46:54 <Bike> it's kinda funny how x has its own keyboard stuff, so i end up having different layouts for x and console since i haven't bothered with the latter 04:47:40 <newsham> btw, lsub.org guys made a plan9-like system that had an http-like protocol (back to original topci of html and gopher): http://lsub.org/ls/export/opiwp9.pdf 04:47:49 <newsham> kind of like a stripped down and simplified 9p 04:50:19 <Bike> looks like my distro has its own setup for console keyboard configuration wooooo 04:50:21 <zzo38> What is the command to tell aptitude and other package managers to load the packages from a DVD? 04:51:36 <Bike> surely aptitude is agnostic, you just gotta mount the device and do whatever 04:51:49 <Bike> dpkg -i /media/fuckparty2004.deb 04:54:14 <zzo38> How do you tell to temporarily specify to access DVD for its built-in list of packages? I know proxy is possible, as I have seen it done. 04:55:39 <zzo38> I think 7-Zip can also open .deb packages 04:56:07 <zzo38> 7-Zip supports many formats, including a few which are not mentioned in the documentation. 04:58:17 <ion> zzo38: If a DVD has a proper repository, you should be able to use apt-cdrom add. If you just want to install a random .deb file, dpkg --unpack foo.deb && apt-get -f install 04:59:11 <zzo38> In fact, it opens Visual Pinball table files just fine. It also opens sections of a EXE file just fine, too. 04:59:11 <zzo38> ion: O, OK. 04:59:11 <zzo38> Not only was I curious myself, but someone else who was purchasing a laptop computer from Free Geek wanted to know how to do this, too. 04:59:28 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:01:16 <zzo38> Once, I was trying to download additional music for PySol. For some reason, it was distributed as a Macintosh disk image, but I tried to open it with 7-Zip and it worked. 05:01:16 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:01:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:02:35 <Bike> urgh. reminds me of when i tried marathon mods 05:02:37 <zzo38> I don't know whether or not 7-Zip is available on Linux or Macintosh computers, but probably it can be ported if it isn't. 05:02:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:02:46 <Bike> there's a bonus level that you get by decompressing some hex in the game, twice 05:02:56 <Bike> the catch being the compression format didn't outlive the mac 9 05:03:20 <zzo38> Bike: Did you try 7-Zip? See if it manages to open it. 05:03:48 * Bike googles 05:03:58 <Bike> looks like the mac program does open 7z :/ 05:04:36 <Bike> the format was proprietary so 7zip would probably have something weird with it 05:04:38 <zzo38> Don't download the "7za" 7-Zip because it is more limited. You need the full version, although you can safely delete the GUI if you do not want it (this is what I did). 05:08:39 <zzo38> If a file contains multiple archive types, you can tell 7-Zip which one to open. 05:09:35 <Bike> anyway back when i tried it seemed like only this program could open it, and possibly only an old version 05:17:23 <madbr> zzo38: the gui is like 80% of why 7zip is good 05:17:35 <madbr> the other 20% being that it supports tons of formats 05:17:51 <zzo38> madbr: I don't need the GUI, though. But it is there if you like it! 05:18:24 <zzo38> I just use the tons of formats, myself, and the command-line interface is actually good how I find it, too. 05:19:15 <madbr> also, integration into the explorer is nice 05:21:40 <zzo38> It can, although I do not need it. 05:24:34 <zzo38> Do you know of any music tracker software with two more windows, a SQL window and a MML compiler window? The SQL window can help for editing and MML window can help for writing music, then. 05:28:18 <madbr> don't know of any trackers using sql or mml 05:28:37 <zzo38> OK 05:30:34 <madbr> usually they are based around a specialized GUI component - the pattern editor (the "grid"), editing music data in a custom binary format 05:31:29 -!- tertu has joined. 05:31:34 <zzo38> That can be useful to view and tweak music, although I do not find it useful for composing music at all. It also makes the binary format limited in some ways, since it has to fit on the grid. 05:31:57 <zzo38> I am not suggesting to remove such thing, though. 05:32:56 <zzo38> What I mean is that if you want to do something such as "swap channel 2 with channel 3" then you would enter a SQL command to do that, or if you want to detect which instruments are used and what range of notes, you can use SQL command to do that too. 05:33:32 <madbr> the real reason for the grid's limitations is screen space 05:34:17 <madbr> if you add more flexibility then you will have too much data to display in your fixed size cell 05:34:21 <zzo38> madbr: Yes, that is one of the things making the grid's limitations, which is also part of the file format's limitations 05:34:41 <zzo38> For example, you cannot have a lot of effects at once. 05:34:55 <madbr> the cell cannot vary in height otherwise it would break the layout 05:36:04 <madbr> the max number of effects also has to stay constant 05:36:19 <zzo38> What you could do is if the cell contains a single effect, it is specified normally; if more than one, you can have a "effect icon" consisting of several colors and if clicked, then you get a window to view/edit each one. 05:36:23 * constant looks at madbr ! 05:36:28 <madbr> so that you can display easy to read column 05:36:29 <madbr> a 05:36:30 <madbr> s 05:36:44 <constant> a 05:36:45 <constant> b 05:36:48 <constant> c 05:36:51 <madbr> zzo38 : in theory yes 05:36:52 <constant> easy columns 05:37:03 <madbr> zzo38 : but that sounds inconvenient 05:37:33 <madbr> breaks your muscle memory for doing fast editing 05:38:00 <zzo38> It would be inconvenient for writing music, but if you are using the MML compiler to write the music and the grid to view/tweak it, then it works. Furthermore, if you are writing music using the grid, you can still use single effects just as easily as before. 05:38:31 <zzo38> And, editing using SQL could also work just as well, too. 05:39:05 <zzo38> Another thing that might introduce multiple effects as once would be MIDI record. 05:39:19 <madbr> midi record is a problem yes 05:40:32 <zzo38> I currently use OpenMPT for viewing and playing music of various formats (and to export instruments and so on). 05:41:38 <madbr> openmpt is designed for writing songs 05:42:26 <zzo38> I don't really find it so suitable for such thing though, although yes it can be used for such, too. 05:46:36 <madbr> like, the whole purpose of the program is to write new music 05:46:52 <zzo38> It can be used for existing music too though 05:48:42 <zzo38> For writing music I generally use ppMCK, Csound, or just write them as PLAY commands in QBASIC. 05:49:19 <madbr> isn't qbasic's play command monophonic? 05:49:54 <zzo38> Yes, it is monophonic, although I have used it. 05:51:48 <zzo38> In Csound, there are several different programs for editing score (and some edit the orchestra for you too), and some people just write the score and/or orchestra directly in a text editor. I didn't find any of the score editors or the standard format so good, so I wrote my own score compiler, although I just type in the orchestra directly. 05:52:33 <zzo38> The Csound numeric score format looks to highly resemble tracker-style formats, so a tracker-style interface for Csound could probably use Csound's own format as their native format. 05:52:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Cheese]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39794 * 66.215.55.141 * (+53) Created page with "ok I am confused, anybody want to help me understand?" 05:53:40 <madbr> mhm 05:57:59 <Sgeo> Cheese++ compiler written in Cheese+ which has an interpreter in Cheese 05:58:46 <zzo38> Even when I am using ppMCK, it isn't quite the standard one; I have added a few things, the most useful being the * and ? commands, which I use a lot. 05:59:00 <Sgeo> I assume that Cheese itself is ultimately implemented in Feather, considering the time oddities involved 05:59:14 <zzo38> So in CsoundMML I have also implemented the * and ? commands. 06:01:08 <madbr> you're compiling to csound's score format from mml? :D 06:01:14 <zzo38> madbr: Yes. 06:01:47 <madbr> I guess that shows that csound's score format might not be good and should've been mml in first place? :D 06:02:47 <zzo38> madbr: I don't know; probably it depends on preference. Some people do write music directly in Csound's score format. Some people prefer GUI. A few other people have written programs similar to MML for Csound, but not as good in my opinion. 06:03:43 <zzo38> And if I am just doing simple sound effects, and not writing a song, I find Csound score format reasonable too. 06:04:06 <madbr> everything is good enough for simple sound effects 06:05:00 <zzo38> Often in such a case, the score will only contain possibly some tables and one event, and then write the sound effect in the orchestra. 06:07:16 <zzo38> I much prefer the Csound format over VST (although Csound does support VST, in both directions). 06:08:31 <zzo38> New effects can be written as combinations of existing effects, or by writing a Csound extension in C. 06:11:56 <zzo38> Some people prefer to compose music by writing it on a paper. I can do that too, especially if I am writing in four-part harmony. 06:12:28 <zzo38> But someone I know, just play piano and never writes it down at all. 06:13:03 <zzo38> (He says he can never get the timing correct when writing it down or putting it into the computer.) 06:14:44 <zzo38> Do you use OpenMPT yourself at all? 06:17:20 <zzo38> Sgeo: Then now write the Cheeeese+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!! compiler, too. 06:19:11 <madbr> I use impulse tracker which is the precursor 06:19:19 <madbr> (and runs on dos) 06:19:36 <zzo38> Yes I knew that is a DOS program 06:20:40 <madbr> in fact most of my musical output is still done in that 06:21:26 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:21:40 <zzo38> I did not know that. 06:24:32 <zzo38> Impulse Tracker format is more sophisticated than MOD and S3M at least, so it does allow more effects at once, by putting some in the volume column, some in the effect column, some in the sample data, and some in the instrument data. To me that looks like somewhat of a mess. 06:24:51 <madbr> yeah but I never use the volume column for effects 06:25:01 <madbr> it's there for volume only 06:25:10 <zzo38> OK 06:25:18 <madbr> in my usage 06:25:33 <madbr> otherwise you run into the problem that you can't adjust volume anymore if you use it 06:26:01 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:26:06 <zzo38> There are a few effects which work in the volume column though, as I have read the format specifications, although I did not pay much attention how much it is used; but I do think usually they are only volume 06:26:31 <madbr> some other people might use them yes 06:26:32 <madbr> I don't 06:27:47 <zzo38> The instrument data can also contain volume and panning though 06:29:04 <madbr> yeah I use some of the panning stuff in instruments 06:29:10 <madbr> along with channel panning 06:32:24 <fizzie> I've written an Impulse Tracker file player once; it did feel like somewhat of a mess. 06:32:46 <madbr> fizzie : yeah it's not a particularly clean spec 06:33:02 <zzo38> To me it doesn't make much sense to make such a mess inside of the file format; to me is more sensible having external program compiling such effect into the correct sequences needed in the file, and then the player does not need to know about them. 06:33:18 <madbr> has bizzarre throwbacks to stuff like amiga pitch clock frequencies :D 06:34:30 <madbr> zzo38 : that's like, a baked output format 06:34:50 <madbr> like the old genesis music format that was a dump of all register writes 06:34:55 <zzo38> madbr: Yes, I think it would work better. 06:35:08 <madbr> it would have to be a two step thing 06:35:13 <zzo38> An alternative would be to use a VM, like .NSF uses. 06:35:22 <madbr> you'd need a format for editing the data 06:35:41 <madbr> and then a second format for exporting the data to external players 06:36:00 <zzo38> madbr: Yes, you would need such a thing, certainly. But I still think it would work better, and make it more extensible without modifying the players. 06:36:06 <madbr> yeah nsf is a good example of second format 06:36:51 <madbr> "preparsed .it" would be a useful thing yes 06:36:53 <zzo38> Yes and there are a few different programs to compile into .NSF: NerdTracker, FamiTracker, ppMCK, etc. 06:38:50 <madbr> nite 06:38:51 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 06:42:03 <zzo38> fizzie: If we make the "preparsed .it" format would you work it better then? 06:48:43 -!- edwardk has joined. 06:48:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39795&oldid=39789 * GermanyBoy * (-5) /* Natural numbers via linked lists */ 06:53:29 <fizzie> It would certainly have made my player simpler, but it was a one-off thing for a friend who needed a small executable, not a general IT player thing that I'd keep working on. 06:53:42 <zzo38> OK 06:54:33 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:54:38 <zzo38> I could still try to make such format and other people can question/complain about it, and put it in library which is playing such file 06:56:36 <zzo38> I think it would improve it a lot. Not only make the player simpler, but also allow editors to add their own features much more easily, and make it much more easily to write a MML compiler targeting it. 06:57:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:Declarative paradigm]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39796&oldid=23621 * GermanyBoy * (+24) 07:00:17 -!- tertu has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:22:32 <zzo38> I hav idea a new kind of poker game, based on Texas Hold'em. One thing is that each player now plays two hands; each hand keeps their own score and bets separately though, except that one is "leader" and the one after that in the same team is called a "supporter", such that the supporter cannot reraise the leader. There are also other rules having to do with limits, lives, and other things. 07:41:40 <zzo38> How common would it be in a poker game if you really don't want your opponent to see your cards, for some reason? (I don't know why, but maybe it might be possible somehow?) In such a case, it might make sense to fold if check is an option, but only after the river card has been dealt. 07:47:25 <zzo38> Or maybe someone wants to influence the decisions made by other players, when there are more than two players in the game. 07:52:56 <Taneb> Oh hey, it's apparently Transgender Awareness Week or something 07:57:26 -!- mhi^ has joined. 07:58:49 <olsner> I did a sid player based on "preparsed sid" a while ago, but it seems that the original 6502 code is a quite good compression format for SID register writes 08:01:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:03:31 <zzo38> Yes, it does do that. 08:03:44 <zzo38> Although for register write formats, there is VGM, is one thing for that. 08:04:51 <zzo38> 6502 codes can certainly help to compress and do other things, then you only need to emulate the 6502 instruction set and whatever effects are used, can be added on by programmed in 6502 codes. NSF is also based on 6502 codes. 08:05:10 <mroman> what's the conventional business e-mail response time? 08:23:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:33:23 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:33:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:49:11 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:50:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Changing server). 09:01:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:02:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:03:20 <oerjan> turns out trying to join another server without telling irssi it's _not_ freenode gets you disconnected from the usual ones, huh 09:04:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 09:04:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:05:00 <oerjan> bah did it again 09:05:40 <mroman> I run multiple irssis in a screen session 09:06:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 09:07:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:07:21 <oerjan> i _really_ _really_ don't seem to get how to connect to more than one server D: 09:07:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 09:08:49 <mroman> You suck at connecting to multiple servers . 09:09:01 <mhi^> :P 09:12:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:13:38 <shachaf> oerjan: how are you doing it 09:13:48 <shachaf> oerjan: i just /connect irc.some.server 09:13:55 * mhi^ nods 09:14:26 <oerjan> shachaf: oh i used /server 09:14:45 <shachaf> there you go then 09:14:48 <shachaf> use /connect 09:15:42 <oerjan> ok. i actually found out how to use /server (needs to add a + before the connection) 09:15:55 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Changing server). 09:16:09 -!- shachaf has joined. 09:16:19 <shachaf> /SERVER disconnects the server in active window and connects to the new one. It will take the same arguments as /CONNECT. If you prefix the address with the + character, Irssi won't disconnect the active server, and it will create a new window where the server is connected (ie. /window new hide; /connect address) 09:16:26 <shachaf> ...I walked into that one. 09:17:01 <shachaf> So much for trying to help people. 09:17:15 <oerjan> never works hth 09:17:41 <shachaf> (do you see what happened there it was funny) 09:18:03 <kmc> `coins 09:18:04 <HackEgo> ​numcoin ortcoin triicoin pongcoin boancoin sqrcoin postentcoin mechuygenecoin catcococoin devezcoin hinkleicoin eceicoin kvilcoin titlecoin half-modecoin camantolcoin bracoin interwangcoin brbcoin objectdiscoin 09:18:14 <kmc> interwangcoin 09:18:19 <oerjan> shachaf: ... ah 09:18:24 <kmc> whither fungot 09:18:40 <oerjan> shachaf: how's life on the disconnects network 09:18:43 <kmc> Taneb: is it? i thought that was in november 09:18:47 <kmc> or is that only in USA 09:19:19 <shachaf> oerjan: v. disconnected hth 09:19:34 <Taneb> kmc, isn't that asexuality awareness week? 09:20:24 <kmc> idk ;_; 09:20:45 <Taneb> Well, my student union is running a transgender awareness week this week it seems 09:21:33 <Taneb> Hmm, there does seem to be one in November too 09:21:58 <Taneb> And Asexual awareness week is at the end of October 09:22:53 <kmc> i started wearing skirts to work this week 09:23:41 <oerjan> when then is asexual transgender awareness week 09:24:00 <oerjan> it's just a matter of time and you know it 09:24:23 <Taneb> oerjan, November 2 - November 9 09:25:06 <kmc> hi shachaf 09:25:07 <kmc> hichaf 09:25:08 <oerjan> Taneb: no that's plain transgender awareness week, pay attention! 09:25:15 <shachaf> hi keegan 09:25:17 <shachaf> heegan 09:25:31 <Taneb> oerjan, that's November 10 - November 17 I thought 09:25:46 <oerjan> ah sorry 09:26:03 <kmc> awareness is a double-edged sword :< 09:26:45 <b_jonas> kmc: or a double-sided coin 09:27:10 <kmc> `coins 09:27:12 <HackEgo> ​ihaxtcoin mechalcrcoin domcoin oousecoin axingcoin oxberatcoin curschefcoin wadstuffocoin poimefulcoin c-londitone90000coin glastrcoin eodorcoin whocoin madna#coin kelxcoin valk:brainlovecoin lazycoin hq9+coin librilllcoin temcoin 09:28:52 <oerjan> anyway do you remember that cocytus guy who was here briefly looking for the other kind of esoterica, when i tried to join ircnet the first time it also joined the #esoteric channel there (because i forgot to tell irssi that it was ircnet) and there e was. unfortunately e seemed idle. 09:30:47 <Taneb> What even is the other kind of esoterica 09:30:59 <oerjan> you know, MAGICK 09:31:20 <Taneb> Oh, right 09:31:56 <kmc> while you are letting your guard down / i will be letting myself go / while you keep running your ship aground / i will be setting myself alight 09:32:01 <Taneb> kmc, when you said that awareness is a double-edged sword, was there anything specific you were referring to? 09:32:43 <Taneb> It feels like that conversation was cut off 09:33:51 <kmc> Taneb: http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2014/06/on-depression-privilege-and-online.html 09:33:56 <kmc> content warning: depression, privilege, online activism 09:34:47 <zzo38> After a few moments of thoughtful deliberation, I lean forward and declare my decision into the microphone. "Monty, I'd like to switch to Door Number 3. In fact, it's always to my advantage to switch based on the facts you've presented." The crowd gasps! Someone from the audience shouts, "That's not correct, switching doesn't matter since each door has an equal probability of of hiding the car." Only one of us is right, but which one is it? 09:35:38 <kmc> you 09:35:39 <kmc> hth 09:35:43 <zzo38> I have seen this before and see that it is better to switch than not, but, according to how it is mentioned there, exactly one of us is right, therefore it doesn't matter which one, if you switch anyways, it won't be at a disadvantage. 09:35:53 <zzo38> kmc: Yes I know that but that isn't the point I am making 09:36:57 <oerjan> ...is there anyone here who _hasn't_ already seen the monty hall problem discussed ad nauseam 09:37:39 <zzo38> This specific point is one I have not seen, but other than that yes I certainly has already seen and probably so has anyone else here 09:37:55 <kmc> let's talk about newcomb's problem instead 09:38:00 <kmc> omega as gameshow host 09:38:03 <kmc> discuss 09:39:09 <zzo38> Omega is a gameshow host? 09:39:29 <zzo38> I thought omega is Greek alphabets. 09:40:32 <oerjan> the thing that annoys me about monty hall discussions is that everyone has an implicit setup in mind that is rarely fully stated and which greatly affects the probabilities _even_ if you understand them. 09:41:23 <shachaf> is it related to how they might not offer to switch in the first place depending on your choice? 09:41:29 <oerjan> shachaf: yep 09:41:44 <oerjan> precisely 09:41:45 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:41:53 <shachaf> yep 09:42:10 <mroman> oerjan: ? 09:42:16 <shachaf> you don't actually know which game you're playing, or at least one of the rules is just implicit 09:42:46 <mroman> My understanding of the monty problem is, that you can eliminate one door 09:43:01 <mroman> although the moderator does the elimination, but that doesn't really matter 09:43:10 <zzo38> I have quite thought of those things already 09:43:11 <mroman> he gives you three doors, and you can eleminate one bad door 09:43:20 <mroman> which is rougly the same as choosing two doors 09:43:34 <shachaf> there are multiple monty problems and they're indistinguishable without some extra information about how the game actually works 09:43:35 <zzo38> Although, I assume that the rules are mentioned before the game is played. 09:45:00 <oerjan> mroman: the problem is usually stated "in medias res", so you don't actually know what the rules are, just that you're giving the opportunity to switch _this_ time. 09:45:08 <mroman> although that doesn't really help understanding why it's better to switch 09:45:26 <kmc> perhaps bonghits will fix my transport layer security 09:45:26 <oerjan> and it _could_ be, in theory, that you only get that offer if the car is behind the door you originally chose. 09:45:38 <oerjan> *given 09:46:02 <zzo38> I have thought about the probabilities carefully and determine it is better to switch. I then programmed a simulation in the computer to check the same thing. 09:47:31 <zzo38> Another variant I have seen is you get additionally $100 if you decide not to switch. Such thing might depend how much the car is then worth, and possibly, whether behind the other doors are empty or have goats (both ways have been seen). 09:48:00 <FireFly> If you choose a door with a goat, do you get to keep the goat? 09:48:09 <mroman> can't you then calculate your earnings expectancy 09:48:33 <zzo38> FireFly: I would assume so, but it isn't actually clear. 09:48:36 <mroman> there's a 2/3 chance you win the car? 09:48:43 <zzo38> I have also thought of the game where the host reveals one of the other two doors at random even if one of them does have a car. I could not figure it out then. 09:48:53 <zzo38> mroman: Yes 09:49:09 <mroman> but there can't be a 1/3 chance you win the car and the money though 09:50:05 <mroman> if you stay there's a 1/3 chance you win the car and the money? 09:50:21 <mroman> and if you switch there's a 2/3 chance you just win the car 09:50:27 <zzo38> I think so 09:50:39 <oerjan> zzo38: i assume you don't get to switch if a car is revealed? 09:51:00 <mroman> wouldn't that mean that your expectancy is (2/3)*car + (1/3)*(car+100$) 09:51:01 <zzo38> oerjan: You could but it wouldn't help, since you have to switch to the other closed door 09:51:04 <mroman> which would be more than a car 09:51:08 <oerjan> oh right 09:51:24 <shachaf> why can't you switch to the car door 09:51:30 <mroman> that' doesn't work that way hm. 09:51:32 <zzo38> shachaf: Because it is open! 09:51:37 <mroman> I think 09:51:39 <shachaf> just because it's been opened? that's ruled out in the original formulation because you know there's a goat behind it 09:52:24 <zzo38> mroman: I think you have to make the expectancy separately each choice? 09:52:57 <oerjan> zzo38: hm i think in the case where a door is revealed at random is equivalent to always revealing the second door. 09:53:13 <zzo38> shachaf: If that is how it is ruled out, well, it works if it is consider as win/lose game, but if that isn't the consideration, then what if you already have a car but you don't have any goat yet? 09:53:20 <shachaf> oerjan: second door? 09:53:23 <mroman> zzo38: Let's assume you role a dice to decide 09:53:24 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:53:42 <mroman> then there's a 1/2 chance that you have a 2/3 chance to win the car 09:53:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:53:50 <zzo38> mroman: O, in that case then yes you do add them up. But you shouldn't decide at random anyways 09:53:53 <mroman> and there's a 1/2 chance that you have 1/3 chance to win the car + the car 09:54:25 <mroman> > (1/2)*(2/3)*10000 + (1/2)*(1/3)*(10000+100) 09:54:27 <lambdabot> 5016.666666666666 09:54:56 <mroman> hm. 09:54:58 <mroman> > (1/2)*(2/3)*10000 + (1/2)*(1/3)*(10000) 09:55:00 <lambdabot> 5000.0 09:55:04 <mroman> lol 09:55:11 <shachaf> you open the third door and behind it is an argument about the monty hall problem 09:55:14 <zzo38> O, so the car is worth $10000. 09:55:15 <mroman> You can expect half a car from the monty problem 09:55:20 <mroman> zzo38: yeah 09:55:28 <zzo38> Then it is solved, of course. 09:55:32 <mroman> which somehow means that your chance of winning is 50:50? 09:55:52 <mroman> but that's probably an intuitive misjudgement of statistics of mine 09:56:05 <zzo38> But if you have not seen the car before, then you just have to guess how much it is worth. 09:56:05 <mroman> If I can expect to win half the price 09:56:13 <mroman> does that imply that my chance of winning the price is 50:50? 09:56:25 <oerjan> `addquote <shachaf> you open the third door and behind it is an argument about the monty hall problem 09:56:26 <HackEgo> 1206) <shachaf> you open the third door and behind it is an argument about the monty hall problem 09:56:45 <zzo38> (And, of course, if it isn't about winning, an additional consideration must additionally be made as I have mentioned above.) 09:57:21 <oerjan> i'd assume most cars are worth more money than most goats, but maybe not everywhere. 09:57:27 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, you argue about it in the third door, now all three different things. 09:58:50 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, I also believe so, but my consideration about the goat was about if it isn't about winning. 09:59:39 <oerjan> zzo38: if the door is revealed at random, there is 1/3 prob. you don't get to switch, 1/3 prob. it's best to switch, and 1/3 prob. it's best to stay. so on the condition you _can_ switch, it's 50-50 and it makes no difference whether you do or not. 10:00:21 <oerjan> oh it's that day again. 10:00:49 <FireFly> Maybe the car is a rusty, used volvo from 1995 10:01:20 <zzo38> oerjan: That was my conclusion too actually 10:01:31 <oerjan> (testing of air raid sirenes) 10:01:58 <Taneb> Is Norway at that much risk of air raids? 10:02:04 <FireFly> no that was monday last week (I think) 10:02:06 <mroman> The fun fact is, that if you decide by a coin toss whether to switch or not 10:02:26 <oerjan> Taneb: not recently, knock on wood. they test them twice a year nevertheless. 10:02:27 <mroman> you'r chance of winning is 1/2 * 2/3 + 1/2 * 1/3 = 1/2 10:02:31 <mroman> *your 10:02:37 <zzo38> Then the coin will fall under the closed door and you will lose one cent. 10:02:43 <mroman> which is still better than staying 10:02:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:03:00 <oerjan> second wednesday of january and june 10:03:16 <oerjan> 12pm sharp 10:03:22 <mroman> so those people who say that your chance of winning is 1/2 are actually right 10:03:26 <mroman> :D 10:03:30 <mroman> if you decide randomly! 10:05:49 <zzo38> What is the formal logic to have such thing as, if it is either better to switch or it doesn't matter, then it implies that you ought to switch? 10:06:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:06:10 <FireFly> oerjan: good, thanks. coordinating attack on norway... 10:07:00 <oerjan> FireFly: i've thought about that idea. 10:07:27 -!- boily has joined. 10:09:42 <FireFly> To return the favour, the best time to attack Sweden would be at 15:00 the first may of every third month, though I don't remember which months 10:10:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:10:42 <FireFly> since I recall there being a test last monday I guess it's the last month of each quarter 10:11:13 <oerjan> the first may of every third month sounds a little hard to calculate, to be honest 10:12:09 <kmc> oerjan: they test them every tuesday here at noon 10:12:19 <oerjan> wat. 10:12:26 <oerjan> _every_ tuesday? 10:12:33 <kmc> http://localwiki.net/sf/Tuesday_Noon_Siren 10:13:12 <kmc> "The San Francisco Office of Emergency Services & Homeland Security urges those who live or work in San Francisco to consider the siren as a weekly reminder to compile an emergency-preparedness kit capable of sustaining themselves and their dependents for 72 hours." 10:13:27 <kmc> ""We had two bags of grass, 75 pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether, and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as 10:14:58 <oerjan> i am not sure that emergency kit is government approved, kmc 10:16:01 <oerjan> i suppose it makes _slightly_ more sense if it's also used for earthquakes, but still i feel a slight urge to make a paranoia index out of this. 10:16:45 <oerjan> number of siren tests per year 10:17:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:18:27 <kmc> no matter how drunk I get I haven't let my laptop run out of battery 10:18:47 <kmc> i got up in the middle of a threesome once to plug it in 10:20:50 <FireFly> oerjan: er, monday* 10:21:20 <oerjan> OKAY 10:21:52 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 10:23:24 <shachaf> copumpkin: yo did you ever read that thing you were going to read 10:24:35 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:31:23 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:31:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:32:31 <oerjan> @tell Bike <Bike> francis i, i think <-- i think the i is not official until they get another francis 10:32:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:33:01 <shachaf> i,i francis i,i think 10:36:11 <mroman> zzo38: It may also depend on whether you're an observer on the outside or not 10:36:26 <mroman> You could argue that an outsider doesn't know whether the participant switches or not 10:36:45 <oerjan> quantum hall effect 10:36:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:36:58 <mroman> and if you model it as a 50:50 switch, so are the chance of winning for the participant 50:50 too 10:37:12 <mroman> (for an observer) 10:39:38 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:45:48 <zzo38> OK 10:49:01 <mroman> hm. 10:49:07 <mroman> three prisoner problem 10:49:12 <mroman> isn't that somehow related to the monty one? 10:49:26 <mroman> A knows, that B is to be executed 10:49:37 <mroman> (that's like monty telling you which door is a goat) 10:49:53 <mroman> if A were to switch his identity with C 10:50:01 <mroman> (that's like switching the door) 10:50:08 <mroman> would that mean that his chances are now 2/3? 10:50:55 <int-e> link? 10:51:03 <mroman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Prisoners_problem 10:52:22 <mroman> i.e. you can imagine, that they have a bag over their had and just a name tag, they can't speak or anything 10:52:34 <mroman> which means, that it would actually be plausible to switch "identities" 10:52:52 <mroman> *head 10:54:23 <int-e> Ok, that's nicely detailed. (flipping a coin is quite crucial) 10:54:52 <int-e> Of course A is silly to assume that his chances improved. :) 10:55:34 <mroman> int-e: at least because the governor already decided 10:55:51 <mroman> no information he receives afterwards could have possibly influenced the governors decision 10:56:06 <mroman> or maybe not 10:56:32 <mroman> but it would make sense that you can't change a decision by disclosing information about it afterwards 10:56:34 <int-e> Well, C's chances do improve. 10:56:52 <mroman> wth? 10:56:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:56:56 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:56:58 <kmc> oerjan: I don't think you can much warn of an earthquake, anyway 10:57:32 <int-e> mroman: There's information in the fact that A tells the news to C rather than B. 10:57:48 <kmc> i feel like i'm reading a random acausal decision theory problem generator 10:59:01 <int-e> mroman: In 2/3 of the cases that A tells the news to C, C is actually pardoned; likewise, in 2/3 of the cases that A tells the news to B, B is pardoned. This does not change the overall odds at all. 11:00:56 <mroman> well.. at least this means that A can increase his chance to 2/3 by switching identities with C 11:02:31 <mroman> or is that wrongg too? 11:02:32 <int-e> no that's right 11:02:35 <mroman> so he should have killed C and taken his place if he knew anything about statistics 11:02:38 <mroman> although these statistics are really weird 11:02:38 <Taneb> That's so macabre I am glad I am crap at stats 11:02:45 <mroman> I don't really see why your chance of winning can possibly increase after the decision was already made 11:02:48 <int-e> I'm not sure that killing somebody is a good way of getting pardoned. 11:03:09 <int-e> mroman: they increase to 100% for the survivor after the executions have taken place 11:03:28 <mroman> at the point he chose which to pardon everyone had a 1/3 chance of winning 11:03:41 <mroman> there's no reason why that chance should alter o_O 11:04:09 <int-e> it's just conditional probabilities. 11:04:37 <int-e> The guard divulges information about the choice after all. 11:05:58 <mroman> yeah. But that information has no effect on the "choosing procedure" 11:06:00 <mroman> how could it, the procuder had already been done 11:06:00 <mroman> *procedure 11:06:02 <int-e> mroman: You're viewing it wrong, really. 11:06:03 <mroman> I know :D 11:06:41 <int-e> After the choice has been made, one of the prisoners has a 100% chance of being pardoned, and the other two will be executed. 11:06:49 <mroman> you calculate the chance based on information you know about the result 11:06:52 <mroman> which means you already know parts of the result 11:06:52 <int-e> The probabilities that we're discussing are uncertainties arising from incomplete information. 11:07:14 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:13:26 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:17:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 11:17:47 -!- glogbot has joined. 11:17:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 11:17:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 11:18:43 <b_jonas> I don't know what the instruction manual coveres it, but if C is pardonned and the warden names B, he may find it difficult to prove that he named B because of the coin flip rather than because of the truth he knew 11:18:54 <b_jonas> so if he doesn't want conflict with the governor, it's easier to just not ansewr 11:20:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:21:07 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest84201. 11:25:14 -!- Guest84201 has changed nick to shikhout. 11:25:17 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 11:25:17 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:28:11 -!- shikhout has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:29:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:33:31 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:33:32 <mroman> in reality nobody would be pardoned . 11:34:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:35:01 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:35:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 11:37:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:38:11 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:39:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:39:11 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 11:41:55 <FireFly> ohh it's the dot 11:42:35 -!- Bike has joined. 11:53:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:21 <kmc> cler 11:55:24 <kmc> cle;r 11:55:26 <kmc> cle;r 11:55:28 <kmc> cle;r 11:55:37 <kmc> cler 11:56:16 <kmc> jclear 11:56:18 <kmc> glCCCC 11:56:20 <kmc> cl 11:56:22 <kmc> clear 11:56:33 <kmc> oh hello 11:56:43 <kmc> sorry about all of that 11:56:48 <kmc> `cois 11:56:49 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cois: not found 11:56:52 <kmc> `coins 11:56:54 <HackEgo> ​katurketercoin rincoin villgolationcoin backcoin orkovacoin ijlcoin thamptlypaniquishyncoin lambergiuncoin fobcoin sandcoin coborocoin m-codcoin fagecoin scacoin gieramblcoin chiecoin oveacoin lombricoin charghumcoin tedcoin 11:57:00 <mroman> `doges 11:57:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: doges: not found 11:57:51 <kmc> no doge for you 11:59:11 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:00:03 -!- yorick has joined. 12:00:22 <mroman> `help 12:00:22 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 12:00:26 <mroman> `ls 12:00:32 <mroman> `run ls 12:00:35 <HackEgo> 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 12:00:35 <HackEgo> 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 12:01:01 <mroman> there are complaints 12:01:07 <mroman> `run ls complaints 12:01:08 <HackEgo> complaints 12:02:29 <mroman> `:-D 12:02:29 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: :-D: not found 12:02:59 <nortti> `catr complaints 12:02:59 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: catr: not found 12:03:03 <nortti> `cat complaints 12:03:04 <HackEgo> No output. 12:03:07 <mroman> `complaints 12:03:08 <HackEgo> 0 complaints 12:03:13 <mroman> ^- it's an executable 12:03:16 <mroman> aparanteley 12:03:16 <nortti> ah 12:03:25 <mroman> `complain boo? 12:03:26 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you. 12:03:30 <mroman> `complaints 12:03:31 <HackEgo> 0 complaints 12:03:37 <mroman> LIAR! 12:05:08 <int-e> `cat bin/complain 12:05:09 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 12:05:19 <int-e> `ls -la complaints 12:05:20 <HackEgo> ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 12:05:22 <int-e> ``ls -la complaints 12:05:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found 12:05:25 <int-e> `` ls -la complaints 12:05:28 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 9 Apr 23 02:27 complaints -> /dev/null 12:05:40 <mroman> lol 12:05:41 <mroman> ok 12:05:41 <int-e> It's the proper BOFH way of handling complaints. 12:07:14 <FireFly> `file :-D 12:07:15 <HackEgo> ​:-D: UTF-8 Unicode text 12:07:36 <FireFly> `run file * | grep -v directory 12:07:37 <HackEgo> 98076: ASCII text, with CRLF line terminators \ a: empty \ app.sh: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable \ bdsmreclist: ASCII text \ canary: ASCII text \ cat: ASCII text \ complaints: symbolic link to `/dev/null' \ :-D: UTF-8 Unicode text \ dog: UTF-8 Unicode text \ fb: ELF 64-bit LSB 12:07:42 <FireFly> eugh 12:07:59 <mroman> ``:-D 12:08:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `:-D: not found 12:08:06 <mroman> `run ":-D" 12:08:06 <HackEgo> bash: :-D: command not found 12:08:09 <mroman> `run "./:-D" 12:08:09 <HackEgo> bash: ./:-D: Permission denied 12:08:18 <mroman> `run chmod + x ./:-D 12:08:19 <HackEgo> chmod: cannot access `x': No such file or directory 12:08:22 <mroman> `run chmod +x ./:-D 12:08:24 <HackEgo> No output. 12:08:26 <mroman> `run "./:-D" 12:08:27 <HackEgo> ​./:-D: line 1: $'\342\230\272': command not found 12:08:57 <FireFly> PS. I think it's a unicode smiley 12:08:59 <int-e> `cat :-D 12:08:59 <HackEgo> ​☺ 12:09:07 <mroman> Ah :) 12:09:50 <mroman> It's chances of being executed rather than pardoned just increased a lot 12:09:54 <mroman> *Its 12:10:09 <int-e> `` ls -l fb 12:10:10 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 6356 Apr 23 02:27 fb 12:10:26 <FireFly> `run file -i * | grep -v directory | sed -r 's/\s+/ /g' 12:10:27 <HackEgo> 98076: text/plain; charset=us-ascii \ a: inode/x-empty; charset=binary \ app.sh: text/x-shellscript; charset=us-ascii \ bdsmreclist: text/plain; charset=us-ascii \ canary: text/plain; charset=us-ascii \ cat: text/plain; charset=us-ascii \ complaints: inode/symlink; charset=binary \ :-D: text/plain; charset=utf-8 \ dog: text/plain; charset=utf-8 \ f 12:10:49 <int-e> `` cat dog # cheap pun! 12:10:50 <HackEgo> ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 12:11:22 <int-e> Oh that's too much for my fonts. 12:12:10 <FireFly> `rm canary 12:12:11 <HackEgo> No output. 12:12:14 <FireFly> `ls canary 12:12:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 12:12:16 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 12:12:22 <HackEgo> canary 12:12:46 <FireFly> I'm tempted to try to work around that, but I probably shouldn't 12:12:49 <nortti> `cat canary 12:12:49 <HackEgo> chirp 12:13:26 <int-e> `` ls -lad . 12:13:27 <HackEgo> drwxr-xr-x 14 5000 5000 4096 Jun 11 12:12 . 12:13:57 <int-e> how badly would hackego break after chmod -x . ? 12:15:29 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:16:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:16:16 <mroman> '' ls -la ./ 12:16:20 <mroman> `` ls -la 12:16:21 <HackEgo> total 1980 \ drwxr-xr-x 14 5000 5000 4096 Jun 11 12:12 . \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 11 12:16 .. \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 373 Apr 23 02:27 98076 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Apr 23 02:27 a \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 68 Apr 23 02:27 app.sh \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 31 Apr 23 02:27 bdsmreclist \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 12:16:23 <mroman> `` ls -la ./ 12:16:24 <HackEgo> total 1980 \ drwxr-xr-x 14 5000 5000 4096 Jun 11 12:12 . \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 11 12:16 .. \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 373 Apr 23 02:27 98076 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Apr 23 02:27 a \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 68 Apr 23 02:27 app.sh \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 31 Apr 23 02:27 bdsmreclist \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 12:16:43 <mroman> `` ls 12:16:43 <HackEgo> 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 12:16:46 <int-e> `` ls -la bin/\` 12:16:47 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 18 Apr 23 02:27 bin/` 12:16:53 <int-e> `cat bin/\` 12:16:53 <HackEgo> cat: bin/\`: No such file or directory 12:16:56 <int-e> `cat bin/` 12:16:56 <HackEgo> exec bash -c "$1" 12:17:03 <int-e> (`` is not magic) 12:17:10 <mroman> `` echo $(ls) 12:17:11 <HackEgo> 98076 a app.sh bdsmreclist bin canary cat complaints :-D dog etc factor fb fb.c head hello hello.c ibin index.html interps lib paste pref prefs quines quotes share src test Test Test.hi Test.hs UNPA Wierd wisdom wisdom.pdf 12:17:25 <int-e> `` echo * 12:17:25 <HackEgo> 98076 a app.sh bdsmreclist bin canary cat complaints :-D dog etc factor fb fb.c head hello hello.c ibin index.html interps lib paste pref prefs quines quotes share src test Test Test.hi Test.hs UNPA Wierd wisdom wisdom.pdf 12:17:25 <mroman> why does ls give something else then ls ./? 12:17:30 <mroman> *than 12:17:40 <mroman> `` ls -la 12:17:41 <HackEgo> total 1980 \ drwxr-xr-x 14 5000 5000 4096 Jun 11 12:12 . \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 11 12:17 .. \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 373 Apr 23 02:27 98076 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Apr 23 02:27 a \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 68 Apr 23 02:27 app.sh \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 31 Apr 23 02:27 bdsmreclist \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 12:17:46 <int-e> `` cat 98076 12:17:46 <HackEgo> ​-- Hi everyone! 12:17:51 <FireFly> it does? 12:17:55 <mroman> `` ls -laR 12:17:56 <HackEgo> ​.: \ total 1980 \ drwxr-xr-x 14 5000 5000 4096 Jun 11 12:12 . \ drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 11 12:17 .. \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 373 Apr 23 02:27 98076 \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Apr 23 02:27 a \ -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 68 Apr 23 02:27 app.sh \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 31 Apr 23 02:27 bdsmreclist \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5 12:18:06 <mroman> does ls list recursively? 12:18:08 <mroman> `` ls 12:18:08 <HackEgo> 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 12:18:10 <FireFly> `run cat *bds* 12:18:11 <HackEgo> ​<oerjan> YOU are out of order. 12:18:12 <int-e> `` echo $(ls ./) 12:18:12 <HackEgo> 98076 a app.sh bdsmreclist bin canary cat complaints :-D dog etc factor fb fb.c head hello hello.c ibin index.html interps lib paste pref prefs quines quotes share src test Test Test.hi Test.hs UNPA Wierd wisdom wisdom.pdf 12:18:16 <int-e> `` echo $(ls) 12:18:17 <HackEgo> 98076 a app.sh bdsmreclist bin canary cat complaints :-D dog etc factor fb fb.c head hello hello.c ibin index.html interps lib paste pref prefs quines quotes share src test Test Test.hi Test.hs UNPA Wierd wisdom wisdom.pdf 12:18:22 <mroman> hu 12:18:23 <int-e> looks the same to me 12:18:29 <mroman> `` echo $(ls -la) 12:18:30 <HackEgo> total 1980 drwxr-xr-x 14 5000 5000 4096 Jun 11 12:12 . drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 0 Jun 11 12:18 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 373 Apr 23 02:27 98076 -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 0 Apr 23 02:27 a -rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 68 Apr 23 02:27 app.sh -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 31 Apr 23 02:27 bdsmreclist drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4096 Jun 6 08:32 bin -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 6 Jun 11 12:18:31 <int-e> mroman: you hade a -la previously 12:18:43 <mroman> yeah 12:18:53 <FireFly> `` diff <(ls -la) <(ls -la ./) 12:18:54 <HackEgo> No output. 12:18:55 <int-e> `` echo $(ls -a) 12:18:56 <HackEgo> ​. .. 98076 a app.sh bdsmreclist bin canary cat complaints :-D dog etc factor fb fb.c head hello hello.c .hg .hg_archival.txt ibin index.html interps lib paste pref prefs quines quotes share src test Test Test.hi Test.hs UNPA Wierd wisdom wisdom.pdf 12:19:11 <mroman> why doesn't la list hello.c? 12:19:31 <FireFly> `` ls -la | grep hello 12:19:31 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 5000 6479 Apr 23 02:27 hello \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 113 Apr 23 02:27 hello.c 12:19:41 <mroman> oh. it's cut off 12:20:04 <FireFly> it only responds with one IRC line, so the amount of output is fairly limited 12:22:47 <mroman> `` whereis ghci 12:22:49 <HackEgo> ghci: 12:22:51 <mroman> `` whereis ghc 12:22:53 <HackEgo> ghc: 12:22:57 <mroman> `` whereis gcc 12:22:59 <HackEgo> gcc: /usr/bin/gcc /usr/lib/gcc /usr/bin/X11/gcc 12:24:00 <int-e> `paste 12:24:12 <int-e> `` paste < hello.c 12:24:22 <int-e> yes, no, maybe? 12:25:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.30812 12:25:03 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.24635 12:25:40 <FireFly> `paste hello.c 12:25:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/hello.c 12:25:42 <FireFly> works too 12:29:47 <int-e> huh, what kind of protocol is that? 12:31:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:36:35 <mroman> `` echo ☹ > "./:-(" 12:36:37 <HackEgo> No output. 12:36:44 <mroman> `` cat "./:-(" 12:36:44 <HackEgo> ​☹ 12:36:46 <mroman> hm 12:38:29 <oerjan> `unidecode ☹ 12:38:30 <HackEgo> ​[U+2639 WHITE FROWNING FACE] 12:38:42 <FireFly> protocol? 12:40:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:42:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:47:29 -!- Burton has quit (Excess Flood). 12:54:07 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:54:42 <mroman> `? protocol 12:54:42 <HackEgo> protocol? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:55:13 -!- Burton has joined. 12:55:35 <mroman> `learn protocol Not to be confused with protocoal. 12:55:36 <HackEgo> I knew that. 12:55:40 <mroman> `? protocol 12:55:41 <HackEgo> protocol Not to be confused with protocoal. 12:55:52 <mroman> damn 12:56:54 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/protocol //' wisdom/protocol 12:56:54 <HackEgo> sed: can't read wisdom/protocol: No such file or directory 12:57:04 <oerjan> wat 12:57:43 <oerjan> we have a forget command? 12:57:47 <oerjan> `cat bin/forget 12:57:48 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ rm "wisdom/$(echo "$1" | tr A-Z a-z)" \ echo "Forget what?" 12:57:55 <mroman> oerjan: yeah 12:57:58 <mroman> `? protocol 12:57:59 <HackEgo> protocol is not to be confused with protocoal 12:58:02 <oerjan> `forget protoco: 12:58:02 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/protoco:': No such file or directory \ Forget what? 12:58:07 <oerjan> `forget protocol: 12:58:07 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wisdom/protocol:': No such file or directory \ Forget what? 12:58:10 <oerjan> wat 12:58:17 <oerjan> `run ls wisdom/prot* 12:58:18 <HackEgo> wisdom/protocol 12:58:29 <mroman> I already corrected it 12:59:14 <mroman> `? oerjan 12:59:15 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 12:59:24 <mroman> `? ntediluvian 12:59:25 <HackEgo> ntediluvian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:59:28 <mroman> `? antediluvian 12:59:28 <HackEgo> antediluvian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 13:00:22 <oerjan> `run echo 'We could tell you what antediluvian means, but that would just open a flood of questions.' >wisdom/antediluvian 13:00:23 <HackEgo> No output. 13:01:14 -!- aloril has joined. 13:02:17 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 13:02:17 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 13:04:34 <mroman> http://it.slashdot.org/story/14/06/09/1852218/kids-with-operators-manual-alert-bank-officials-we-hacked-your-atm?sbsrc=md 13:04:52 <mroman> I detect security by "you don't have our manual" 13:05:24 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:06:07 -!- Patashu has joined. 13:36:05 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:37:55 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 13:46:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:48:45 -!- conehead has joined. 13:51:14 -!- password2 has joined. 13:51:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:01:41 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:04:05 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:06:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:45:57 -!- mihow has joined. 14:50:58 -!- edwardk has joined. 15:11:52 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:20:28 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 15:20:43 -!- not^v has joined. 15:24:32 -!- not^v has quit (Client Quit). 15:25:33 -!- tailcalled has joined. 15:25:44 -!- edwardk has joined. 15:27:44 -!- tailcalled has quit (Client Quit). 15:33:32 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:44:31 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:48:57 <mroman> zzo38: Have you yet found out if you can do a*b-c with BANCSTar Arithmetic command? 15:49:09 <mroman> from the LIST source it looks like you can encode an operator in each operand 15:49:23 <mroman> but LIST seems to only look at the operator encoded in the fourth operand 15:51:52 -!- scoofy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:59:03 <mroman> also there are FORMS and SCREENS btw. 16:11:07 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:11:36 -!- mihow has joined. 16:16:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:17:29 -!- barrucadu has joined. 16:20:54 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 16:22:30 <Taneb> `? Ngevd 16:22:31 <HackEgo> ​.gwG!oڕdB48Jr'_BXىjGtOzEAWq˵q͵{l5fu$^1=!hYl+ñ 16:24:13 <Taneb> `rsum 16:24:13 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rsum: not found 16:26:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 16:26:18 <Taneb> ^celebrate 16:26:29 <Taneb> fizzie, help 16:26:36 <Taneb> \o/ 16:32:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Have to play a game). 16:43:29 -!- mihow has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:44:04 -!- scoofy has joined. 16:45:27 -!- mihow has joined. 16:49:20 <int-e> o.o 16:49:33 <int-e> o.o.o 16:49:36 <int-e> o.o 16:50:21 -!- qlkzy has joined. 16:50:25 <Taneb> `? limerick 16:50:26 <HackEgo> limerick? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 16:52:27 <Taneb> `quote prose 16:52:28 <HackEgo> 1140) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 17:18:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:21:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:23:28 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:32:42 <Taneb> Someone here suspects that Lisp's list comprehensions are turing complete 17:32:45 <Taneb> Any thoughts? 17:35:12 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:38:02 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:40:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:49:59 <Slereah> "list comprehension"? 17:50:21 <int-e> > [x*y | x <- [1..3], y <- [1..5]] 17:50:23 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,2,4,6,8,10,3,6,9,12,15] 17:50:33 <int-e> I don't know what it looks like in Lisp. 17:51:21 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:54:43 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:54:46 <fizzie> Halp. 17:55:08 -!- fungot has joined. 17:55:13 <fizzie> There "u" go. 17:56:02 <int-e> fungot is with us again, the world is saved 17:56:03 <fungot> int-e: i meant gregorr-w: ps ( thread-id 5)) 17:56:06 <zzo38> It is similar to do-notation though 17:57:07 <mroman> int-e: loop and collect 17:57:32 <int-e> zzo38: haskell started out with "monad comprehensions", but then there was a push for type errors that make sense to students who are just learning the language, and the syntax was restricted to lists. 17:57:57 <mroman> but esentially you can use regular lisp funccions in list comprehensions 17:57:58 <mroman> so... 17:58:01 <int-e> lately there's been a backwards trend, and ghc has monad comprehensions as an extension. 17:58:15 <int-e> @type [() | () <- undefined] 17:58:16 <lambdabot> [()] 17:58:35 <mroman> loor for x from 1 to 10 (collect (* n n))) 17:58:36 <int-e> (with the extension, [() | () <- undefined] :: Monad m => m () ) 17:58:37 <mroman> *loop 17:58:57 <mroman> (loop for x from 1 to 10 (collect (* n n))) for example 17:58:59 <int-e> x/n, please choose one. 17:59:05 <mroman> oh 17:59:06 <mroman> true 17:59:08 <mroman> :) 17:59:54 <int-e> > (do { x <- [1..10]; return (x*x) }, [x*x | x <- [1..10]]) 17:59:56 <lambdabot> ([1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100],[1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81,100]) 18:00:55 <mroman> Break 1 [2]> (loop for x from 1 to 10 collect (* x x)) 18:00:56 <mroman> (1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100) 18:18:24 <Melvar> int-e: Not MonadPlus? 18:19:30 <int-e> Melvar: nope, since there is no guard in there. 18:19:52 <int-e> unlike [() | False] :: Control.Monad.MonadPlus m => m () 18:21:02 <Melvar> Hmm. 18:22:18 <Melvar> ( [ x * y | x <- Right 2, y <- Left "no" ] 18:22:18 <idris-bot> When elaborating an application of function Prelude.Monad.return: 18:22:18 <idris-bot> Can't disambiguate name: Prelude.Classes.*, Prelude.Fin.* 18:22:55 <Melvar> ( [ the Integer $ x * y | x <- Right 2, y <- Left "no" ] 18:22:55 <idris-bot> (input):0:0:Incomplete term Right (fromInteger 2) >>= \x8 => Left "no" >>= \y11 => return (the Integer (x8 * y11)) 18:24:29 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:26:13 <Melvar> ( the (Either _ Integer) [ the Integer $ x * y | x <- Right 2, y <- Left "no" ] 18:26:14 <idris-bot> Left "no" : Either String Integer 18:26:41 <Melvar> Apparently that works without Alternative too. 18:29:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39797&oldid=39795 * GermanyBoy * (-10) /* Built-in classes */ corrected super classes 18:30:26 -!- mihow has joined. 18:32:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39798&oldid=39797 * GermanyBoy * (-5) /* Classes and methods */ 18:46:13 <Taneb> `thanks barrucadu 18:46:14 <HackEgo> Thanks, barrucadu. Tharrucadu. 18:47:21 <Taneb> `rot0 wow 18:47:21 <HackEgo> wow 18:48:21 <int-e> `rot26 really! 18:48:21 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rot26: not found 18:48:54 <int-e> `` cd bin; echo rot* 18:48:55 <HackEgo> rot0 rot13 rot256 18:49:20 <int-e> `` ln -s rot0 bin/rot26 18:49:21 <HackEgo> No output. 18:49:43 <int-e> `` cat bin/rot13 18:49:44 <HackEgo> print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 18:57:23 -!- erdic has joined. 19:15:02 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:15:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:David.werecat]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39799&oldid=36193 * 198.7.62.204 * (-438) 19:20:16 -!- mihow has joined. 19:21:42 <Taneb> Help I seem to be in two different university's computer science society's IRC channel 19:23:56 <Bike> quick start a debate about how pure haskell is and leave in the confusion 19:25:54 <zzo38> Well, Haskell has many impure features such as lazy I/O, ability to catch errors from pure code without using a macro, and everything marked "unsafe". 19:26:41 <int-e> > id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id id 1 19:26:47 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 19:27:52 <FireFly> `which print_args_or_input 19:27:53 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/print_args_or_input 19:27:58 <FireFly> `cat bin/print_args_or_input 19:27:59 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi 19:28:15 <FireFly> Makes sense 19:28:50 <zzo38> Now do you know how you can debate and argue about how pure Haskell is and confusion? 19:29:12 <FireFly> `rot256 wow so secure 19:29:13 <HackEgo> wow so secure 19:29:37 <FireFly> waait, that shouldn't be id 19:29:49 <FireFly> `run ls -l bin/rot256 19:29:50 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 9 Apr 23 02:27 bin/rot256 -> /bin/echo 19:30:42 <Melvar> `id 19:30:42 <HackEgo> uid=5000 gid=5000 19:31:09 <Melvar> `id -Z 19:31:10 <HackEgo> id: --context (-Z) works only on an SELinux-enabled kernel 19:32:56 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:33:01 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:35:28 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 19:40:47 <ion> http://1.usa.gov/QQYwSb 19:41:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:43:02 <int-e> "Google Custom Search requires JavaScript" ... well, no thanks. 19:43:08 <int-e> (cute search terms though) 19:46:00 <int-e> "1.USA.gov URLs are created whenever anyone shortens a .gov or .mil URL using bitly." 19:46:14 <int-e> lesson learned. 19:51:36 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:55:37 -!- Bike has joined. 19:56:41 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:01:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:03:43 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:04:27 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:05:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:08:39 -!- Bike has joined. 20:16:05 <Taneb> I did impress Edinburgh with my lensiness 20:18:18 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:21:09 -!- Bike has joined. 20:36:02 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:39:53 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 20:39:53 -!- tromp__ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:39:53 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 20:39:56 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 20:40:01 -!- clog has joined. 20:40:09 -!- yiyus has joined. 20:40:19 -!- tromp__ has joined. 20:40:29 -!- mtve has joined. 21:03:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:11:41 <zzo38> How to make German quotations with ISO-646? 21:17:14 <Melvar> zzo38: You can’t? 21:17:17 <kmc> ,,old school'' 21:18:19 -!- not^v has joined. 21:21:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:23:50 <zzo38> But I need to make German quotations with ISO-646 21:24:34 <kmc> they might be in some national variant but mostly ,,i think you do it like this'' 21:25:17 <zzo38> Are you sure? I thought German quotations are different from that. 21:25:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:26:08 <kmc> i don't know german 21:26:33 <zzo38> Neither do I, but I thought German quotations are not like that. 21:28:54 <FreeFull> That's what Polish quotations are like 21:28:59 <FreeFull> I don't know about German ones 21:29:12 <FreeFull> Except you'd use the actual unicode characters 21:29:15 <zzo38> O, OK 21:29:24 <zzo38> But I don't need to make Polish quotations with ISO-646 anyways. 21:29:46 <zzo38> Only German and English (which is ASCII). 21:32:21 <kmc> ASCII is pretty incomplete for English typography, too 21:32:30 <kmc> but it has a decent enough approximation of quotation marks 21:32:40 <zzo38> I know but I don't need any more than what it has 21:36:04 -!- boily has joined. 21:43:38 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:56:40 <Melvar> German: „foo“ ; English: “foo” 21:59:57 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:10:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:12:13 -!- Bike has joined. 22:13:33 <zzo38> Are you sure? 22:15:25 <int-e> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anf%C3%BChrungszeichen 22:20:36 <zzo38> Apparently there is more than one kind? 22:20:51 <FireFly> `dis86 ea 00 00 ff ff 00 00 00 22:20:52 <HackEgo> invalid; add [rax], al; invalid; add [rax], al; invalid; 22:20:57 <FireFly> hm. 22:25:06 <FireFly> That is the content of a "BOOT.COM" that apparently triggers a reboot, at least in dosbox 22:25:07 <zzo38> I also look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_variation_in_quotation_marks and says German is using both the low/high mark like that and angle quotations marks too sometimes 22:25:48 <zzo38> FireFly: I think in dosbox, it may have some of its own instructions for executing the built-in commands on drive Z. 22:26:04 <FireFly> Well, the program definitely isn't dosbox-specific 22:26:27 <FireFly> I found it on an old floppy 22:27:41 <zzo38> O, OK 22:28:00 <zzo38> Perhaps they worked on those computer. 22:28:40 <boily> they should make floppy-themed USB sticks. 22:30:47 <zzo38> There are floppy-disk USB. 22:30:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:31:02 <zzo38> I have one, because the internal floppy disk drive broke. 22:35:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:39:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:42:14 -!- conehead has joined. 22:46:24 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:12:16 -!- scoofy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:13:33 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:13:52 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 23:20:26 -!- Bike has joined. 23:21:53 -!- Bike has quit (Client Quit). 23:26:10 -!- Bike has joined. 23:28:10 -!- not^v has joined. 23:38:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:47:31 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:49:05 -!- augur has joined. 23:50:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:52:44 -!- Bike has joined. 2014-06-12: 00:01:08 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:03:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TOD]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39800&oldid=39720 * Null * (-2) 00:09:04 -!- Bike has joined. 00:14:07 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:20:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: switchin). 00:30:48 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 00:37:36 -!- not^v has joined. 00:41:55 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:42:29 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:42:45 -!- not^v has joined. 00:42:47 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:44:07 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 00:52:42 <Taneb> @ping 00:52:43 <lambdabot> pong 00:52:45 <Taneb> Odd 00:54:44 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:54:45 <boily> ~ping 00:54:45 <metasepia> Pong! 00:54:49 <boily> I can't even. 00:56:58 <Taneb> http and https don't seem to be working 00:57:23 <boily> the protocol itself, or you can't resolve? 00:57:49 <Taneb> Well, just chrome can't connect 01:00:33 <boily> kill chrome, gently power-toggle your router, stare at your modem, and launch firefox. 01:00:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:01:16 -!- Frooxius has joined. 01:04:36 <boily> meanwhile, finns are weird → http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg 01:05:11 <coppro> Oo 01:06:03 <boily> YKSI! 01:06:26 <boily> (now, where is our resident finn when we need him?) 01:08:23 <boily> @tell fizzie YKSI! YKSI! YKSI! 01:08:23 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 01:14:06 <Taneb> boily, I slightly have no control of my router 01:14:15 <Taneb> I don't even know where it is 01:15:05 <boily> I suppose you don't have a small EMP device with you? 01:15:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 01:22:37 <boily> the Mystery of the Possession of Magnetical Pulsing Machines shall be Resolved in the Next Episode. it is time to understand my mattress. 01:22:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DIVERGENT CHICKEN). 01:26:10 -!- Danielaaac has joined. 01:27:11 -!- conehead has joined. 01:30:02 <Danielaaac> hooola 01:30:20 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:30:20 <elliott> Danielaaac: are you a bot 01:30:42 <elliott> like you can't seriously be one person so interested in this channel over many many months?? 01:31:28 <elliott> oh hey... 01:31:36 <elliott> maybe all these "canaima"s are users of http://canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/ 01:31:46 <elliott> and not one person 01:32:40 -!- Danielaaac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:33:01 -!- Danielaaac has joined. 01:34:48 <Danielaaac> espaol? 01:35:32 <elliott> `? welcome.es 01:35:32 <HackEgo> ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 01:36:32 <Danielaaac> muchaaaas gracias jijijijijij 01:36:38 -!- Danielaaac has left. 01:37:11 <elliott> Danielaaac: ^ 01:51:35 <Bicyclidine> jijijijijij 02:01:16 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:01:49 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:02:03 -!- MoALTz has joined. 02:03:55 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:05:55 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 02:18:25 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 02:18:40 -!- edwardk has joined. 02:20:08 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:22:39 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 02:45:39 -!- tertu has joined. 03:40:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:44:26 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:47:17 <zzo38> Do you know if ecliptic coordinates are fixed yet in Wolfram|Alpha? 04:37:09 <Bicyclidine> http://www.fang.ece.ufl.edu/reject.html this can't be real, can it 04:37:49 <elliott> it's satire 04:38:04 <Bicyclidine> ok good 04:38:28 <elliott> (pretty sure) 04:38:36 <shachaf> yes, it's satire 04:39:00 <shachaf> http://th.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/People/Lucks/reject.pdf 04:39:07 <elliott> The author mentions computing machines, such as the recent ENIAC. Well, I guess one could connect such machines, but a recent IBM memo stated that a dozen or so such machines will be sufficient for all the computing that we'll ever need in the foreseeable future, so there won't be a whole lot of connecting going on with only a dozen ENIACs! 04:39:12 <elliott> pretty obvious 04:39:33 <Bicyclidine> i was mostly thinking nobody would be dumb enough to think you need gotos for an if with multiple statements 04:39:39 <Bicyclidine> and it just got more obvious as i went down 04:40:04 <Bicyclidine> but, i've never receieved a letter about a paper, and actual papers can be really fucking bizarre, so who's to know 04:46:09 <Sgeo> I don't know what the C.A.R. Hoare thing relates to 04:48:13 <Bicyclidine> hoare calculus i assume 04:48:58 <Bicyclidine> so glad i never actually hard to learn it 04:53:33 <Sgeo> "It is always good practice to name your behavior with an alias that is the same as the callback module it is implemented in." 04:53:37 <Sgeo> http://aosabook.org/en/riak.html 04:53:48 <Sgeo> I'm confused. Doesn't that make the server effectively a global variable? 04:54:15 <Sgeo> Oh, no 04:54:22 <Sgeo> "registering the process with the same name as the callback module," 04:54:27 <Sgeo> It doesn't say to always do that 04:54:51 <Sgeo> But I still don't get how registered gen_server processes are any different from global mutable variables 04:57:12 <zzo38> Is this sensible? Can you draw it in diagramatic notation? outtext : () / ($1(iosys), $2(string) |- $3(++)); outtext = [io,s,z] cut true [t] fold s t z [ch,_,k] outbyte io ch k; 04:58:36 <Sgeo> "Note that validating the data sent to the server should occur on the client side. If the client sends incorrect information, the server should terminate." 04:58:59 <Sgeo> I know it's Erlang with crash early and the client itself is more trusted. But still, those are not words I expect to read 04:59:25 <Bicyclidine> i can't draw 05:00:02 <Sgeo> crash early crash often 05:00:47 <zzo38> Someone once told me about a program that never crash because it did everything it needed to do in the time it took for the watchdog timer to run out, and then it just restarted automatically. 05:14:09 <zzo38> How can you add a new symbol to a logic together with a proof such that, assuming the system is consistent, that adding this symbol and the rules to go with it will not admit any new theorems which do not involve this symbol? 05:16:33 <zzo38> Furthermore, how can you make this proof to do stuff like a computer program does? 05:21:32 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 05:27:05 <Bicyclidine> hm, what would a counterexample be? you could add a new reduction rule that reduces an expression of original symbols that wasn't reduced originally to something involving the new symbol 05:27:49 <Bicyclidine> on the other hand, you can't just ban all rules that do that, because then another rule might take it back to original symbols... except that reduction still wouldn't be in the original 05:43:51 <zzo38> I do not quite understand you. 05:49:43 <Bicyclidine> thinking more i don't think it's relevant to what you actually meant, souree 05:55:05 <zzo38> Perhaps that is why I do not understand. 05:57:36 <Bicyclidine> my mind's stuck in orgo, i'm thinking of shit like alkoxymercurationdemercuration where you throw some weird bullshit like merc(ii) acetate at a hydrocarbon but just get an ether out 05:59:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39801&oldid=39707 * Zzo38 * (+140) 06:00:36 <Bicyclidine> so, like, you're adding a reduction scheme that uses a novel intermediate but can still start and end with CHO 06:08:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:32:50 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:42:09 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:59:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Sleeping). 07:14:50 <olsner> redaction scheme? 07:55:12 <Taneb> Aaaaaah 07:55:26 <Taneb> The grand final for a programming competition my university has ran is today! 07:57:25 <Taneb> `bad PR 07:57:28 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bad: not found 07:57:29 <Taneb> `quote bad PR 07:57:30 <HackEgo> 193) <elliott> Getting bad programmers to like something is a failure. 07:57:37 <Taneb> `quote e bad PR 07:57:38 <HackEgo> No output. 08:02:18 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:03:59 -!- augur has joined. 08:24:08 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:24:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:26:31 <shachaf> http://oeis.org/search?q=1%2C3%2C11%2C42%2C163 08:29:57 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:29:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:32:29 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:33:17 -!- Jafet has left. 08:34:20 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:36:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:37:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Th]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39802 * T.J.S.1 * (+2566) Suggested additions for turing-completeness. 08:37:28 <ion> Binary Metal http://youtu.be/dYBZMRWcEBk 08:38:43 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:47:06 <oerjan> `unidecode r� 08:47:06 <HackEgo> ​[U+0072 LATIN SMALL LETTER R] [U+FFFD REPLACEMENT CHARACTER] 08:47:55 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:48:10 <Taneb> Helloerjan 08:48:28 <oerjan> haneb 08:48:49 <Taneb> Do you know whether Lisp's list comprehensions are turing complete? 08:49:00 <oerjan> i do not know lisp's list comprehensions. 08:49:10 <b_jonas> "Lisp's list comprehensions"? 08:49:39 <Taneb> A friend has suggested they may be turing complete 08:49:40 <b_jonas> do you mean python's or haskell's list comprehensions? 08:49:44 <Taneb> But I do not know them at all 08:49:50 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:49:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:49:58 <Taneb> b_jonas, no, specifically Lisp's 08:50:40 <oerjan> unless they contain some unusual feature my hunch is no. 08:51:04 <oerjan> ordinary list comprehensions is a very primitive recursive thing, i think. 08:51:25 <b_jonas> which lisp? let me check cltl 08:52:05 <b_jonas> what are they called? 08:52:50 <Taneb> I am afraid I do not know 08:53:02 <Taneb> qlkzy, prod 08:53:03 <oerjan> BET YOUR FRIEND MADE IT UP HTH 08:53:21 <b_jonas> cltl doesn't seem to mention "comprehension" 08:54:11 <oerjan> Taneb: did you know that "prod" isn't very googleable hth 08:54:28 <Taneb> I was prodding qlkzy 08:54:34 <Taneb> He is the friend in question 08:54:58 * oerjan ogles qlkzy suspiciously 08:59:46 <oerjan> <int-e> zzo38: haskell started out with "monad comprehensions", [...] <-- no, list comprehensions came first, before monads were on the table. then there was an intermediate stage. 08:59:59 <oerjan> @tell int-e <int-e> zzo38: haskell started out with "monad comprehensions", [...] <-- no, list comprehensions came first, before monads were on the table. then there was an intermediate stage. 09:00:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 09:01:22 <oerjan> "Burstall and Darlington's work with NPL influenced many functional programming languages during the 1980s, but not all included list comprehensions. An exception was the influential pure lazy functional programming language Miranda, which was released in 1985. The subsequently developed standard pure lazy functional language Haskell includes many of Miranda's features, including list comprehensions." 09:01:47 <myname> what the hell is monad comprehension 09:02:58 <oerjan> myname: you know how list comprehensions in haskell are equivalent in sugariness to the do-notation for the list monad? just do that transformation backwards for an arbitrary monad. 09:03:18 <myname> okay! 09:03:40 <oerjan> [ e1 | x <- e2, y <- e3 ] = do x <- e2; y <- e3; return e1 09:04:26 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:05:08 <oerjan> enabled in ghc with {-# LANGUAGE MonadComprehensions #-} 09:07:40 <oerjan> there are also some linq-/sql-like additions for lists, which iirc have been extended to use monadic classes as well 09:09:03 <oerjan> > [ x+y | x <- Just 2, y <- Just 3 ] 09:09:04 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘[t]’ 09:09:05 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe a0’Couldn't match expected ty... 09:09:05 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe a1’ 09:09:05 <lambdabot> Relevant bindings include x :: t (bound at <interactive>:1:9) 09:09:10 <oerjan> bah not enabled 09:10:21 <oerjan> oh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_comprehension#Common_Lisp looks relevant 09:11:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:15:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NybbleScrambler]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39803 * Javamannen * (+1887) This is an idea for a very simple single-instruction (OISC) CPU. 09:17:07 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:18:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:28:50 <b_jonas> ais523: also, you kept mentioning cyclic tag systems, and how either two stacks or a single queue is enough for turing-completeness. 09:29:18 <ais523> b_jonas: yeah, although it's not quite that simpel 09:29:21 <ais523> *simple 09:29:24 <b_jonas> and now I've read a book which explains this about complexity theory (in a somewhat more precise way) 09:29:32 <b_jonas> and I think I understand it better now, 09:29:41 <ais523> you can invent a language with all sorts of memory access, but it's no good if it, say, doesn't have loops, or doesn't have a way to read the memory 09:29:42 <b_jonas> further, it also explained something I didn't understand: 09:29:57 <ais523> it's just in my "heuristics for guessing whether a language is probably Turing-complete" 09:30:00 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> meanwhile, finns are weird → http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg <-- one super-delicious ice cream hth 09:30:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 09:30:11 <b_jonas> it tells why the Post correspondence problem is undecidable. 09:30:22 <Taneb> b_jonas, Fueue is a fun language that is turing-complete with just a queue 09:30:53 <b_jonas> the reason is that the Post correspondance problem is just a machine with a single queue, except that it has only one state so the step can only depend on the unqueued elements, and it's nondeterministic, 09:31:06 <Taneb> I suppose you could treat Fueue as a complicated cyclic tag system? 09:31:09 <ais523> actually, I'd stop short of saying one queue is usually enough for Turing-completeness, I'd put the Turing-completeness of queue-based languages at "often" 09:31:19 <oerjan> Taneb: it's queue elements are actually rather over-powered for tc-ness, though 09:31:22 <oerjan> *its 09:31:47 <oerjan> as in, they're not precisely symbols in an alphabet 09:31:54 <b_jonas> so it can simulate anything with a quadratic slowdown. the lack of state is no theoretical problem, though it might practically make it slower. 09:32:23 <b_jonas> ais523: and of course, I know it's just "often", not precise statements 09:33:30 <ais523> two stacks is more at the "usually" point 09:33:47 <oerjan> otoh to make do with only symbols in an alphabet you might need a program separate from the queue (or do you? i don't think i've seen any proof) 09:34:37 <b_jonas> It also told a bit about counter machines (equivalently pushdown automaton with multiple stacks where the stacks can contain only one symbol): 09:34:54 <shachaf> ais523: so is your thesis thing released or how does it all work 09:34:58 <shachaf> what is it about 09:35:15 <b_jonas> I'm not sure I understand it correctly, but I think a counter machine with three (or more, unlimited) counters can simulate anything in exponential time, 09:35:27 <b_jonas> a counter machine with two counters can simulate anything in double-exponential time, 09:35:54 <ais523> shachaf: what do you mean by my "thesis thing"? my thesis is about lots of things 09:35:55 <b_jonas> and it said something about one counter being equivalent to a pushdown automaton, but I'm not sure I read that part right. 09:36:03 <shachaf> i mean your thesis 09:36:08 <ais523> wait, I have a meeting, I'll be back in a bit 09:36:18 <shachaf> ok 09:36:26 * shachaf will probably go to sleep 09:37:30 <Taneb> Hang on, so, is like a... push-up? automaton turing complete? 09:37:51 <b_jonas> Taneb: what's that? 09:38:03 <Taneb> Like a push-down automaton but with a queue 09:39:01 <oerjan> b_jonas: i think one counter is no stronger than a push-down automaton, but not strong enough to emulate _every_ pd automaton 09:39:02 <b_jonas> with a queue, yes, but I don't think that would be called push-up 09:39:36 <b_jonas> oerjan: it's clearly not stronger than a push-down automaton, because it's basically a push-down automaton that can have just one kind of symbol in its stack 09:39:55 <oerjan> clearly. 09:40:59 <b_jonas> as for simulating any push-down automaton, I'm not sure I understood that right. I'm not even sure if it was supposed to be about deterministic or non-deterministic counter machine, and deterministic or non-deterministic pushdown automaton. I'll have to re-read, 09:41:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:41:12 -!- Quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:41:15 <b_jonas> and if it isn't clear, I may have to read another book, but more likely I won't care. 09:41:32 <oerjan> the other part is slightly subtler. actually not much though - if you ever get a loop that doesn't shrink the counter overall, without passing through 0, you're doomed to never halt 09:41:49 <b_jonas> I don't find these exponential time simulations too useful. In fact, I don't even like the quadratic slowdown simulations. I want quasi-linear. 09:41:53 <oerjan> (loop to the same state) 09:43:58 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:44:30 <oerjan> b_jonas: i think even emulating a RAM machine with a turing machine has more slowdown than that? 09:44:52 <b_jonas> oerjan: it has a quadratic slowdown, yes. 09:45:23 <b_jonas> oerjan: that's why I don't like turing machines, and don't like how they (and string substitution machines and similar) has become sort of the most common model people invoke about computability 09:45:29 <b_jonas> I prefer pointer machines and similar 09:46:23 <b_jonas> luckily, for NP-completeness and stuff, people more often refer to SAT and variants, which are equivalent to RAM machines and all sane variants of pointer machines and combinator calculus etc up to juts a quasi-linear factor. 09:46:55 <b_jonas> well, not quite 09:47:04 <oerjan> ok 09:47:06 <b_jonas> SAT is equivalent to a _nondeterministic_ ram machine or pointer machine really 09:47:12 <b_jonas> so it's not the same 09:47:46 <oerjan> argh brain overuse 09:47:47 -!- Quintopia has joined. 09:48:38 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:48:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:49:26 <oerjan> @tell elliott <elliott> maybe all these "canaima"s are users of http://canaima.softwarelibre.gob.ve/ <-- ooh the mystery starts unraveling 09:49:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 09:52:07 <oerjan> "The operating system has gained a strong foothold and is one of the most used Linux distributions in Venezuela, largely because of its incorporation in public schools." 09:52:12 <b_jonas> any news on BANCStar by the way?\ 09:52:34 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:54:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39804&oldid=39755 * Javamannen * (+23) NybbleScrambler 09:54:47 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:54:57 <oerjan> b_jonas: not today 09:55:26 * oerjan doesn't remember if b_jonas has been paying attention the rest of the week, if not then yes. 09:56:27 <oerjan> see the discussions between zzo38 and mroman. 09:58:00 <b_jonas> the discussions between zzo38 and mroman were about the Monty hall problem and similar 09:58:46 <oerjan> ...go further back then 09:59:05 <oerjan> i could possibly be confusing mroman with someone else. 09:59:08 <b_jonas> I think I did read that then. 09:59:21 <b_jonas> Ok, so no new discuessions since. 09:59:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NybbleScrambler]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39805&oldid=39803 * Javamannen * (+2) 10:05:56 -!- TodPunk has joined. 10:09:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:09:09 <ais523> shachaf: back 10:09:24 * ais523 tried to tab-complete the "back" as well as the "shachaf" 10:11:38 <shachaf> hais523 10:12:04 <ais523> shachaf: my thesis is currently about finite-state systems 10:12:29 <ais523> what exactly it's about changes over time as I try to find an appropriate subset of my research that's internally consistent and doesn't have too many dependencies on things that don't exist 10:12:50 <ais523> like, writing about hardware would be nice, but there aren't any sufficiently good formalisms of delay-insensitive asynchronous hardware yet 10:12:56 <ais523> and I doubt I'll have time before the deadline to make one myself 10:14:39 <oerjan> `quote e bad 10:14:40 <HackEgo> 566) <monqy> bad people have feelings too <monqy> but they're bad <monqy> so it's okay \ 826) <olsner> we have PR? <oerjan> the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] <oerjan> [...] "avoid success at all costs" \ 1169) <zzo38> C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. <zzo38> Although C doe 10:15:22 <Taneb> `quote with clients 10:15:23 <HackEgo> 434) <Taneb> Well, I'm now experimenting with clients <fizzie> It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. 10:16:25 <Taneb> I need to do that again 10:16:34 <int-e> `quote PR 10:16:34 <HackEgo> 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 14) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler 10:16:43 <oerjan> yes, you should never give up your evil overlord dreams 10:17:02 <int-e> Oh, CaSe InSeNsItIvE. 10:17:08 <int-e> hOw RuDe. 10:17:19 <oerjan> `` allquotes | grep PR 10:17:20 <HackEgo> 434) <Taneb> Well, I'm now experimenting with clients <fizzie> It doesn't sound like good PR to say that out loud. \ 718) <elliott> I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE PRESSURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING I'M CONAL \ 826) <olsner> we have PR? <oerjan> the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] <oerjan> [...] "avoid succes 10:18:04 <int-e> `shuf 10:18:13 <int-e> `` allquotes | grep PR | shuf 10:18:14 <HackEgo> 718) <elliott> I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE PRESSURE OF EVERYBODY THINKING I'M CONAL \ 826) <olsner> we have PR? <oerjan> the good news is we have PR. the bad news is we borrowed haskell's motto for it. [...] <oerjan> [...] "avoid success at all costs" \ 434) <Taneb> Well, I'm now experimenting with clients <fizzie> It doesn't sound like good PR to say 10:18:26 <int-e> okay. 10:18:35 <HackEgo> No output. 10:18:40 <oerjan> `` allquotes | grep PR | wc 10:18:45 <HackEgo> ​ 3 64 362 10:19:00 <oerjan> yep. 10:19:02 <Taneb> Is that lines/words/characters? 10:19:09 <oerjan> think so 10:19:24 <int-e> Taneb: yes 10:19:42 * Melvar discovers that, like do, Idris’ comprehensions will happily use whatever (>>=) and return fit. 10:20:40 <oerjan> idris, the language with haskelly type classes _and_ overloading madness 10:20:51 <Melvar> ( run $ the ({ [EXCEPTION String] } Eff (Either String) Integer) $ [ the Integer (x * y) | x <- pure 2, y <- raise "no" ] 10:20:51 <idris-bot> Left "no" : Either String Integer 10:22:13 <Melvar> I am going to guess it will also use whatever guard fits. 10:23:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:24:01 <Taneb> !python print range(10) 10:24:04 <EgoBot> ​[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9] 10:24:23 <Taneb> ( the Integer 4 10:24:23 <idris-bot> 4 : Integer 10:24:30 <Taneb> Sweet, I know idris now 10:26:26 <Melvar> ( run $ the ({ [EXCEPTION String] } Eff (Either String) Integer) $ [ x * y | x <- pure 2, y <- raise "no" ] 10:26:26 <idris-bot> Left "no" : Either String Integer 10:26:52 <Melvar> Apparently in that case the one full type suffices. 10:33:57 <nooodl> ( the 10:33:57 <idris-bot> the : (a : Type) -> a -> a 10:34:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39806&oldid=39783 * B jonas * (+1713) 10:35:09 <nooodl> ( the ((a : Type) -> a -> a) the 10:35:09 <idris-bot> the : (a : Type) -> a -> a 10:35:25 <b_jonas> ok, I wrote up as much as I understood from the conversations and the github stuff 10:39:05 <oerjan> oh duh you were the one making the article 10:39:12 * oerjan needs a working memory 10:45:13 <b_jonas> oerjan: no need for memory, just use a computer for that 10:46:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39807&oldid=39806 * GreyKnight * (+134) 10:57:33 <b_jonas> oh, linux 3.15 is released. so now we're definitely past version pi. 11:08:24 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:21:26 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 11:34:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:54:50 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:51 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:08:16 -!- augur has joined. 12:12:39 <myname> what is the prevailing opinion about specifying stuff on other peoples languages in the wiki? 12:14:16 <oerjan> well i've done that, but in very small doses. 12:15:40 <oerjan> (like deciding Itflabtijtslwi's EOF convention) 12:17:01 <oerjan> you should be pretty sure the language doesn't have a more specific definition or implementation outside the wiki... 12:18:54 <oerjan> and preferably that it's not currently being worked on by its author 12:19:19 <myname> so, generally speaking: if you come by with the first implementation you may decide? :D 12:19:26 <oerjan> ER... 12:19:45 <oerjan> little details, anyway. 12:30:00 -!- yorick has joined. 12:34:16 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:35:25 <oerjan> of course if the author is around here, it cannot hurt to ask. 12:35:47 <oerjan> (i assume you wouldn't be asking this then, though) 12:42:17 <mroman> myname: Mark it at least as your specification 12:42:37 <mroman> i.e. say it's a variant of the original author's specification 12:43:00 <mroman> like Foobar -> call your's Foobar+ or something 12:43:33 <mroman> I wouldn't just change someone else's language 12:44:08 <mroman> If you write a detailed enough specification you can submit as an ESOSC Draft :P 12:44:14 <mroman> +it 12:44:57 <oerjan> i disagree if it's about something which makes the original language unimplementable unless it's specified. 12:45:00 <myname> if i'd get ESOSC i may dovthat 12:45:16 <oerjan> rather than an actual extension 12:46:05 <myname> what about "there are implementations that do X whereas others do Y"? 12:46:05 -!- Melvar has quit (*.net *.split). 12:46:36 <oerjan> myname: you could just make a section about your implementation, describing its choices 12:46:45 -!- Melvar has joined. 12:47:01 <myname> okay 12:50:36 <mroman> myname: "get ESOSC"? 12:52:01 <myname> that stuff that was floating around here just confused me 12:52:40 <FireFly> Hmm 12:52:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39808&oldid=39798 * GermanyBoy * (+824) fibonacci 13:03:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39809&oldid=39808 * GermanyBoy * (-12) /* Tape via stacks */ fix 13:10:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39810&oldid=39809 * GermanyBoy * (-135) /* Tape via stacks */ format and removed unnecessary code 13:23:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39811&oldid=39807 * FireFly * (+1631) Add tables for instruction opcodes, add section about conditionals 13:24:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39812&oldid=39811 * FireFly * (-2) /* Arithmetic instructions = */ Oops 13:27:36 <b_jonas> FireFly: is the statement I wrote about the implementation and old floppy right? I'm not sure I understood the irc discussion correctly 13:27:46 <FireFly> I don't know 13:27:51 <b_jonas> ok 13:29:45 <b_jonas> maybe we'll find BANCStar commands for displaying tiles and sprites and collision detection 13:29:53 <b_jonas> and moving the viewpoint 13:29:59 <b_jonas> viewport 13:30:13 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:36:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:38:32 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:46:47 -!- password2 has joined. 13:52:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39813&oldid=39810 * GermanyBoy * (+166) /* Built-in classes */ toString 13:55:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Lii]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39814&oldid=39813 * GermanyBoy * (+793) /* Linked list */ a new data structure 13:57:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Gah headache). 14:14:41 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:15:18 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 14:15:23 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:17:37 <mroman> hu 14:17:55 <mroman> If you know a pair of inverses mod m you also get a second pair of inverses for free 14:18:02 <mroman> that's a neat trick I wasn't aware of until now 14:23:31 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:23:53 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:24:44 <Jafet> It's the shipping charges that really get you. 14:25:07 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:25:17 -!- edwardk_ has joined. 14:29:47 -!- edwardk_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:38:08 -!- spiette has joined. 14:38:59 -!- conehead has joined. 14:42:55 <mroman> Do we know something about (a*s) `mod` (a*b)? 14:44:13 <nooodl> sounds = a * (s `mod` b) 14:47:55 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:54:33 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:02:36 <mroman> hm 15:02:57 <mroman> Do we know something about the inverse of m in mod phi(m)? 15:04:01 <mroman> I suspect it's always 1 15:04:25 <mroman> but I don't beleive that for sure 15:05:06 <mroman> hm wait 15:05:10 <mroman> it is 1 15:05:19 <mroman> because well 15:05:27 <mroman> m mod phi(m) is 1 anyway 15:05:33 <mroman> at least for primes 15:06:04 -!- password2 has joined. 15:06:44 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:07:42 -!- password2 has joined. 15:07:58 <tromp__> most m are not relatively prime to phi(m), so have no inverse 15:08:44 <tromp__> this includes all even m>2, and all m with a square divisor 15:13:47 -!- nycs has joined. 15:18:25 -!- mihow has joined. 15:44:33 <mroman> this script here is even wrong 15:44:38 <mroman> a^(phi(m)) mod m = 1 15:44:42 <mroman> that doesn't hold forall m 15:47:53 <tromp__> for which m doesn't it? 15:48:37 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 15:49:07 <nooodl> if i'm reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler's_theorem right, you can only be sure of this when gcd(a,m)=1 15:49:20 <tromp__> yes, of course 15:49:39 <tromp__> so it holds for all m and all relatively prime a 15:55:26 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:00:46 <nooodl> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dsmndtrg4fuwmrg/2014-06-12%2017.58.26.jpg not the most useful page in my biology textbook 16:06:06 <mroman> 6^(phi(8)) mod 8 is zero for example 16:09:43 <mroman> of course it holds for m where m is prime 16:09:50 <mroman> because then it's essentially fermat's theorem 16:13:19 <mroman> are there finite groups that don't have at least one cyclic subgroup? 16:14:10 <mroman> are there even non-cyclic finite groups 16:15:15 <mroman> probably. 16:18:07 <mroman> which would mean that there are finite groups G that have no element g with order |G| 16:19:35 <mroman> every element g produces a subgroup S where |G| = order of g? 16:19:55 <int-e> if you mean |S|? 16:20:02 <mroman> oh. yeah 16:20:13 <mroman> so every finite group has at least one cyclic subgroup 16:20:20 <mroman> maybe even one where |S|=1 16:20:31 <mroman> trivially S={e} is always a cyclic subgroup? 16:20:37 <int-e> only cyclic groups G have elements with ord(g) = |G|. 16:21:23 <int-e> For finite groups G and primes p, if p | |G| then G has at least one element of order p. 16:21:40 <mroman> it's actually even p^n | |G| 16:21:43 <mroman> I think 16:22:25 <int-e> it's not. 16:22:27 <mroman> hm 16:22:54 <int-e> Sylow's theorem (which you probably have in mind) talks about a subgroup, not an element. 16:23:11 <int-e> (his first theorem, that is) 16:24:04 <int-e> mroman: hmm. 16:24:21 <mroman> int-e: I had sylow in mind 16:24:52 <mroman> doesn't there's a subgroup of order q imply, that there is an element of order q? 16:25:46 <int-e> no. that would mean that every group has an element of order 16:25:51 <int-e> |G|, where G is the group 16:26:02 <int-e> since G is a subgroup of itself 16:26:21 <int-e> (hmm, or is q a prime power? but it's still false) 16:27:01 <tromp__> permutation groups are also non-cyclic for n>2 16:27:01 <int-e> The easiest counterexample is the Klein four group. 16:29:02 <mroman> so... 16:29:08 <mroman> if g has order n, there's a subgroup of order n 16:29:26 <mroman> but the vice-versa thingie doesn't hold.. hm 16:31:47 <int-e> 2 is a natural number, but not all natural numbers equal 2. 16:32:01 <mroman> obviously :) 16:32:06 <int-e> sorry, this thing just happens all the time in math. 16:32:15 <mroman> I'm aware of that 16:32:59 <mroman> I just thought that you can only create subgroups by using an element g in G and it will produce a subgroup of order |g| 16:34:00 <Phantom_Hoover> no, you can have other subgroups than that 16:34:05 <tromp__> you get subgroubs from a number of generators 16:34:05 <Phantom_Hoover> <mroman> but the vice-versa thingie doesn't hold.. hm 16:34:19 <Phantom_Hoover> but there is a subgroup for each maximal prime factor 16:34:20 <tromp__> a single generator gives a subgroup of size its order 16:34:44 <Phantom_Hoover> that is, if p^n is the highest power of p in the factorisation of |G|, there's a subgroup of order p^n 16:35:44 <Phantom_Hoover> oh sylow was mentioned 16:36:37 <Phantom_Hoover> but uh anyway, a really simple example of a group with a noncyclic subgroup is Z2 x Z2 x Z2 16:36:47 <Phantom_Hoover> which contains Z2 x Z2 as a subgroup, and that's not cyclic 16:51:15 <mroman> but every subgroup produced by a single generator is still cyclic? 16:51:59 <int-e> by definition 16:52:07 <int-e> cyclic = has a single generator 16:52:49 <int-e> ((Z,+) is cyclic, btw) 16:54:11 <mroman> I think I confused primitive roots with generators 16:54:26 <mroman> I thought generators always must have the same order as the group 16:54:54 <mroman> although primitive roots isn't a term used for general groups 16:55:09 <int-e> Z2 x Z2 is generated by the set {(1,0),(0,1)} 16:56:18 <int-e> And I'd call the elements of that sets the generators, once the set is established in the context. 16:57:34 <mroman> are vector spaces groups? 16:57:45 <int-e> with addition, yes. 16:57:46 <mroman> without the scalar multiplication at least 16:58:13 <int-e> (just check the axioms) 16:59:00 <mroman> the basis of a vector space is also a generator? 16:59:03 <mroman> or generators? 16:59:36 <mroman> I don't get how subgroups with multiple generators are supposed to work 16:59:55 <mroman> (0/1) and (1/0) will certainly form a sub-group 17:00:25 <Phantom_Hoover> a basis of a vector space isn't necessarily a generator 17:00:37 <int-e> you start with the set of generators, and then close it under the group operations (inverse, and the binary operation) 17:01:13 <Phantom_Hoover> since with a basis you can multiply by any element of the underlying field, whereas with generators you can only add 17:01:57 <mroman> well 17:02:04 <int-e> E.g. the subgroup of (R,+) generated by {1} is (Z,+). 17:02:36 <int-e> (Funny things happen. The subgroup of (R,+) generated by {1,sqrt(2)} is isomorphic to (Z,+)^2 17:02:39 <int-e> ) 17:03:42 <mroman> {1,sqrt(2)}? 17:03:51 <int-e> a set with two elements 17:04:16 <mroman> but what's the subgroup? 17:04:28 <mroman> {1,1.41,2,2.41....}? 17:04:34 <int-e> { x + y*sqrt(2) | x,y in Z } 17:08:01 <int-e> you also get 0 (technically this is a group operation; the empty set generates the trivial group), the inverses -1 and -sqrt(2), and any number you can get by adding those things together, which is { x + y*sqrt(2) | x,y in Z }. Fortunately, + is commutative; for non-abelien groups the generated group can be quite hairy. 17:20:52 -!- lollo64it has joined. 17:25:05 -!- Bike has joined. 17:25:52 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:28:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:53:31 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:56:44 -!- ^v has joined. 17:57:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Lucasieks]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39815&oldid=39453 * Lucasieks * (+12) 17:57:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Lucasieks]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39816&oldid=39815 * Lucasieks * (+1) 18:02:39 <nooodl> good edits 18:08:03 <nooodl> for which x is the subgroup of (R,+) generated by {1,x} isomorphic to (Z,+) and not (Z,+)^2 18:08:09 <nooodl> just rationals? 18:11:18 <int-e> yes 18:12:12 <nooodl> dang it, what do you call two reals whose quotient is rational again 18:12:17 <nooodl> there was an adjective for it iirc! 18:12:59 <nooodl> ah. commensurable 18:16:57 <Phantom_Hoover> you know whats a fun group 18:16:58 <Phantom_Hoover> R/Q 18:21:19 <int-e> R is also a Q-vector-space. Which has a basis (assuming the axiom of choice) ... 18:21:29 <int-e> mind-bending 18:22:36 <Phantom_Hoover> apparently R/Q is isomorphic to R 18:27:03 <nooodl> what's an example of an element of R/Q 18:27:51 <nooodl> oh: i guess these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_set#Construction_and_proof 18:28:07 <nooodl> no wait why is it [0, 1] 18:29:53 <Bike> because [0,1] is convenient and isomorphic to R? 18:30:24 <mroman> what's R/Q? 18:30:39 <Bike> quotient set 18:30:42 <Bike> group, whatever 18:34:17 <Phantom_Hoover> nooodl, an element of R/Q is a set of R that's closed by adding rationals, basically 18:35:50 <Phantom_Hoover> or uh, better explanation, for any x in R then {x+q : q \in Q} is an element of R/Q 18:36:41 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:37:08 <Phantom_Hoover> a vitali set is the opposite, it's one point from each element in R/Q 18:41:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:53:12 <shachaf> `olist (955) 18:53:12 <HackEgo> olist (955): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 18:56:33 <FireFly> `danke shachaf 18:56:34 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: danke: not found 19:02:11 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:03:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Javamannen * uploaded "[[File:NybbleScrambling.png]]" 19:05:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:06:22 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:10:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[NybbleScrambler]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39818&oldid=39805 * Javamannen * (+35) Added descriptive graphics 19:16:55 -!- edwardk has joined. 19:35:27 <mroman> on an unrelated note: I'm working on a CoreWar-clone that resembles traditional memory layouts/CISC cpus a little bit closer 19:35:43 <mroman> there's one illegal opcode exception 19:35:56 <mroman> which will also enable the possibility of writing multi tasked program 19:36:19 <mroman> by purposely execute an illegal opcode and perform the task switch 19:36:45 <mroman> it also allows to recover from being tricked into executing an illegal opcode 19:36:54 <mroman> that is, as long as your interrupt service routine stays intact 19:38:03 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: .). 19:43:03 <mroman> although I've been thinking about adding hardware multitask support too 19:43:36 <mroman> or at least add a timer 19:44:52 <mroman> (programs run actually on different cpus sharing the same memory) 19:54:17 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:04:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: sleep). 20:36:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gs2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39819&oldid=38178 * Nooodl * (+273) /* Commands */ finish documenting opcodes 20:50:42 -!- mhi^ has joined. 21:03:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:10:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:10:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:18:55 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:19:40 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:19:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:23:37 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 21:26:18 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:44:08 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:04:44 <zzo38> Now I wrote a program for using for writing .MOD musics. 22:17:55 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:24:07 -!- b_jonas has joined. 22:28:47 -!- mihow has joined. 22:42:54 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:45:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:48:34 <myname> Coding by SMS text message - Computerphile: http://youtu.be/0jraYGjhyY8 22:48:39 <myname> i want this! 22:57:16 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:58:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:00:34 -!- madbr has joined. 23:06:37 -!- edwardk has joined. 23:07:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:11:03 <madbr> ho god the brainfuck survey 23:12:34 <nortti> why "ho god"? 23:13:41 <madbr> looking at it and it's reminding me of how messed up the situation is with text mode vs binary mode 23:13:49 <nortti> ah 23:14:14 <madbr> Also "what should eof return" is a hard question 23:14:59 <madbr> because there is no way to signal eof 23:15:21 <madbr> it has to be a value between 0 and 255 23:15:28 <Bike> 7 23:15:37 <madbr> so it has to conflict with one character no matter what 23:15:41 <int-e> we should specify a 9 bit version of brainfuck 23:15:44 <nortti> :D 23:15:58 <int-e> (with -1 for EOF) 23:18:40 <int-e> (or borrow from the C standard: ", returns the next byte from standard input. at EOF, the behaviour of , is implementation-defined." 23:18:43 <int-e> ) 23:19:11 <nortti> no, EOF shall be undefined behaviour! 23:19:20 -!- boily has joined. 23:21:22 <boily> `oots (955) 23:21:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: oots: not found 23:21:30 <boily> `olist (955) 23:21:30 <HackEgo> olist (955): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 23:21:36 <nortti> srcond time 23:21:39 <madbr> but c has a way to get filesize 23:21:41 <nortti> *second 23:21:54 <boily> guess what. I grepped for oots in the logs. 23:22:00 <boily> @massages-loud 23:22:00 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13h 51m 59s ago: <boily> meanwhile, finns are weird → http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg <-- one super-delicious ice cream hth 23:22:01 <madbr> so you're not supposed to ever read bytes past EOF anyways 23:22:02 <oerjan> BAD IDEA 23:22:25 <oerjan> madbr: um pipes hth 23:22:34 <madbr> I'm a win32 coder 23:22:43 <nortti> sockets? 23:22:52 <madbr> afaik pipes are broken in the windows world 23:23:05 <madbr> (not that I've ever used them) 23:24:11 <madbr> basically all the console-batchfile-textfile architecture of windows is subtly broken and you don't want to test the edge cases because they will break 23:24:26 <madbr> this includes stuff like "non ascii filenames" 23:26:01 * boily gasps 23:26:09 <madbr> this is generally due to inheriting the DOS mess 23:26:11 <boily> oh no you didn't just mention non-ascii filenames! 23:26:57 <madbr> they are ok for user land interaction 23:27:25 <madbr> but once it's some datafile that's going to ship with a product, non-ascii filenames = "please break on other OSes" 23:28:15 <madbr> if the filename appears anywhere in source code, you're begging for the string to be interpreted as latin-1 on one compiler and utf-8 on some other 23:28:16 <madbr> not good 23:28:49 <boily> don't worry. some utf16 is garanteed to creep in. good lock with endianness! 23:29:12 <madbr> doesn't matter, almost all big endian platforms are dead 23:29:25 <madbr> except maybe for the wii U and whatever clunky servers 23:30:19 <boily> some day, middle endian will come back! 23:31:47 <madbr> basically ARM blocked off the stream of new big endian architectures 23:32:54 <elliott> madbr: I would not call Power dead. 23:33:20 <elliott> given that a lot of new stuff is being done for power servers (google etc.) 23:54:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 2014-06-13: 00:07:04 <madbr> true 00:07:08 <madbr> and the wii u 00:07:44 <elliott> well, depends on how you define alive, there :P 00:09:33 <madbr> but in 5 years when someone comes up with a new architecture, is it going to be little or big endian? :D 00:10:01 <madbr> back then there were many more influential big endian architectures (68k, mips) 00:10:08 <madbr> now it's down to power 00:11:39 <elliott> what endianness is the Mill? 00:11:43 <Phantom_Hoover> sony and microsoft switched to x86 right? 00:11:48 <elliott> yes 00:12:16 <elliott> I wonder if there is any technical advantage to big endian on the architectural level 00:12:30 <elliott> it's pretty clearly worse for assembly up 00:12:45 <elliott> madbr: oh and network order is big-endian 00:12:48 <elliott> so it's always going to be relevant 00:13:53 <zzo38> I just always use ASCII filename anyways and require program I write to always require input to be ASCII filenames too, therefore avoiding any such problem. 00:14:06 <elliott> I, too, solve problems by ignoring them 00:14:21 <madbr> elliott : but then that's probably never going to be in code that has to be fast 00:14:46 <zzo38> Non-ASCII filenames are a bad idea anyways. 00:14:48 <madbr> by now most performance sensitive code is floating point anyways 00:14:54 <elliott> madbr: you don't think high performance matters for network code? sure it's going to be IO-bound, but ignoring CPU cost hurts scalability 00:15:06 <madbr> you just said it 00:15:09 <madbr> it's IO bound 00:15:17 <elliott> yes, that sentence has two parts though. 00:15:19 <madbr> also it's full of loads, stores and jumps 00:15:27 <elliott> you should see the amount of work people put into optimising HTTP parsing 00:15:29 <madbr> it's never going to be performance relevant 00:15:48 <Bike> that one article about O times being obsolete is all about caching versus network code... 00:16:06 <madbr> any code that deals with this is going to be limited by memory loads or branch mispredictions 00:16:29 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:16:50 <madbr> so it doesn't matter if you lose 5 cycles shifting data around because that's 5 cycles where the cpu is waiting on the cache/ram 00:16:50 <zzo38> Filenames with spaces are also a bit bad idea, and with control characters. 00:17:01 <elliott> madbr: anyway, I have no idea what at all the relevance of performance-sensitivity is 00:17:08 <elliott> given that the original topic was endianness of UTF-16 filenames 00:17:08 <madbr> simple 00:17:19 <elliott> performance wasn't even mentioned 00:17:33 <madbr> if you're not in performance oriented code endianness doesn't even matter 00:17:43 <madbr> you just shift around the bytes if you're in the wrong endian 00:18:01 <elliott> 00:28:49 <boily> don't worry. some utf16 is garanteed to creep in. good lock with endianness! 00:18:04 <elliott> 00:29:12 <madbr> doesn't matter, almost all big endian platforms are dead 00:18:16 <elliott> my point is it does matter because big endian is here to stay (e.g. because network order) 00:18:21 <elliott> you can't just dismiss endianness concerns 00:18:24 <elliott> this has nothing to do with performance 00:18:26 <zzo38> Many libraries insist on UTF-8 filenames, some programs use other codepages, but generally in all cases ASCII is a subset of such thing, therefore it work better. 00:18:50 <madbr> elliott: if power falls out of relevance, all new architectures will be little endian 00:19:16 <elliott> but architectures are not the only things that can make endianness relevant... 00:19:31 <zzo38> madbr: I am not so sure. MMIX is big-endian. 00:19:48 <madbr> if all architectures are little endian then there's no point to big endian utf-16 00:20:04 <madbr> though tbh there's barely any point to utf-16 at all anyways 00:20:19 <zzo38> Although I do think small-endian is better. 00:20:41 <zzo38> I don't care about requiring the endianness for the purpose of parsing UTF-16. 00:21:39 <madbr> unicode byte order marks are stupid and whoever came up with that idea should be hit 00:21:51 <zzo38> s/byte order marks // 00:22:02 <elliott> madbr: but there are reasons things would be big endian even if all architectures are little endian 00:22:23 <madbr> legacy format here and there yes 00:22:30 <elliott> again, the network byte order is big endian, so it is ubiquitous. (though I guess in e.g. HTTP or whatever, use of UTF-16 specifies endianness explicitly) 00:22:43 <elliott> you think the standard network byte order qualifies as legacy...? 00:22:47 <madbr> yes 00:23:03 <madbr> legacy doesn't mean it's out of use 00:23:13 <elliott> okay. then I define everything on your computer as legacy and therefore completely irrelevant 00:23:23 <madbr> well 00:23:51 <madbr> in this case I mean as in "If it was defined yesterday morning it would've been little endian. but it wasn't" 00:24:08 <madbr> so not legacy as more like a legacy decision 00:24:13 <elliott> well, we are always shackled by the past. 00:25:47 -!- MDude has joined. 00:25:58 <madbr> I've written code with 00:26:30 <madbr> #ifdef BIG_ENDIAN #error Fix this #endif 00:26:50 <madbr> I don't expect to be going through that code any time soon 00:26:56 <elliott> C code should never depend on endianness anyways. 00:27:33 <elliott> stuff like explicit casting to bytes is dumb when bitwise ops say what you actually mean, compile identically, and are inherently portable (the operations you are doing on the values has nothing to do with your computer's internal representation of data) 00:27:43 <madbr> would happen less often if there was a sensible way of reading shorts/ints from a raw byte stream 00:28:18 <zzo38> If you have the correct preprocessor symbols you can use them to compile a shorter kind of code in one case than the other 00:28:34 <madbr> elliott : essentially it's a file load/store issue 00:29:06 <madbr> once it's inside C++ values then of course it's in the architecture's natural byte order and everything is fine 00:29:21 <elliott> madbr: it is not 00:29:34 <elliott> madbr: http://commandcenter.blogspot.be/2012/04/byte-order-fallacy.html 00:29:45 <elliott> there is no reason to depend on architecture endianness for load/store operations, ever 00:29:54 <elliott> it is more complicated, less clear, less portable, and no faster 00:30:21 <elliott> and the code that depends on endianness can fail to work for reasons unrelated to endianness 00:30:24 <madbr> i = (data[0]<<0) | (data[1]<<8) | (data[2]<<16) | (data[3]<<24); 00:30:26 <madbr> is correct 00:30:30 <madbr> and also hard to read 00:30:53 <elliott> if that's hard to read, you have no business processing files with bits in them. 00:31:07 <elliott> especially because that can become a single read_uint16 function or whatever. 00:31:18 <madbr> that's what happens usually 00:31:29 -!- sambora has joined. 00:31:29 <madbr> except every program has its own definition of those 00:31:38 <madbr> because they never made it to the standard library 00:32:06 <madbr> also there's the people that use #pragma pack 00:32:29 <madbr> and essentially use a structure definition to essentially define a data loading format 00:33:29 <madbr> but because the gcc guys and msvc are too stupid to agree on anything this involves multiple macros (one for gcc one of msvc) 00:34:02 <madbr> plus of course an extra "bit reverse everything" function for when you end up having to do a big endian port 00:34:15 <zzo38> And the data can contain not only endianness and number of different sizes, also pointers, and variable lists, etc. 00:34:32 <madbr> it can't have pointers 00:34:36 <Bike> what the heck, that ain't hard to read 00:34:36 <madbr> it's data from a file 00:34:49 <madbr> bike: for one value it's not 00:34:50 <zzo38> Of course C makes such serialization difficult, but some programming language (such as SQL) don't have this problem. 00:35:08 <zzo38> madbr: I know it doesn't, but due to the file format it might be variable and so on 00:35:11 <Bike> sql, savior of us all 00:35:14 <madbr> bike: once it turns into loading complex data files with dozens of values it turns into a mess 00:35:26 <elliott> sure if you've never heard of functions or macros or anything 00:35:31 <Bike> yeah iwas gonna say 00:35:34 <Bike> abstract that shit bro 00:35:34 <elliott> in which case, god help you and your format parser anyway, it's going to be hideous 00:35:51 <zzo38> Yes it is going to be a mess, when you have to change things too 00:36:24 <madbr> I know that's the thing to do 00:36:45 <madbr> but I also deal with real world code made 15 years ago by some maths programming guy 00:37:04 <Bike> a mathematician programmer is going to make everything ugly. 00:37:10 <elliott> in which case they already chose whether to cast or us bitshifts or whatever 00:37:15 <elliott> and any argument for one or the other is irrelevant 00:37:28 <Bike> they're going to go "gosh, haskell is cool, but i think it needs to look more like fortran" 00:37:31 <elliott> honestly all of your arguments are bizarre non-sequitur topic-changes whenever you run out of defences 00:37:43 <madbr> and the maths programming guy codes for win32, couldn't care less about POWER or MIPS (or sometimes even GCC!) and is going to use #pragma pack 00:37:55 <zzo38> If the programming language is QBASIC, then you can assume the PC or an emulator. If it is SQL, then it has a cross-platform format so that works; you can still define additional stuff in C, and call C from SQL and SQL from C, both ways. 00:37:59 <elliott> okay, so are you this guy? if not, then it's irrelevant how he codes, because we were talking about how you code 00:38:10 <elliott> since, if you remember, this was about the ifdef that you wrote 00:38:43 <madbr> if it wasn't a maths programming guy then it would have read_int32() read_int16() read_int8() read_float() read_string() write_int32() etc... 00:39:55 <elliott> but we're... talking... about... your... code... 00:39:55 <^v> who uses those anymore 00:40:05 <madbr> but then it might be a maths heavy piece of code that does something interesting either 00:40:06 <^v> its all about dem * and & 00:40:11 <elliott> 01:25:58 <madbr> I've written code with 00:40:11 <elliott> 01:26:30 <madbr> #ifdef BIG_ENDIAN #error Fix this #endif 00:40:23 <elliott> 01:28:34 <madbr> elliott : essentially it's a file load/store issue 00:40:23 <elliott> 01:29:05 <madbr> once it's inside C++ values then of course it's in the architecture's natural byte order and everything is fine 00:40:43 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:40:57 <^v> but 00:41:01 <^v> big endian is best endian 00:41:17 <nortti> dead endian 00:41:25 <Bike> i continue to find the history of the names hilarious given: that 00:41:32 <madbr> big endian is not IOS endian 00:41:41 <zzo38> So if you care about endianness and various other thing (screen I/O, etc) one thing you can do is to run the program in emulator; for example, writing computer game and distributing in iNES format, then it can run on a NES/Famicom emulator or on a real NES/Famicom hardware. 00:41:46 <madbr> it's not even PC endian 00:41:51 <Bike> zzo's got this shit down 00:42:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:42:26 <madbr> it's "Oh god they're making us port to this retarded platform that is going to sell like 3 copies" endian 00:42:49 <^v> if you have a NES raise your hand 00:42:59 <^v> i count zero 00:43:01 <Bike> there's an SNES at the local goodwill for like ten bucks 00:43:04 <madbr> to young, my generation was SNES 00:43:04 <Bike> maybe i should get it 00:43:06 <zzo38> Some people have actually made NES game and then released it on iPhone too, so you can still do that. 00:43:38 <^v> my generation was camecube 00:43:42 <zzo38> The program will be small-endian regardless of the endianness or word size of the computer you are running it on. 00:43:45 <^v> and win XP 00:44:22 <madbr> the reason to do a NES game or something like that it that it forces some game design choices 00:44:28 <^v> zzo38, so the solution is to write an emulator for the architecture you coded it in 00:44:31 <madbr> and shapes the game that comes out 00:44:33 <zzo38> ^v: Yes. 00:44:45 <^v> or just code it properly <_> 00:44:50 <zzo38> madbr: To me, that isn't necessarily the reason, although it can be one. 00:44:52 <madbr> gotta take a game design decision -> the nes can only do X 00:44:56 <madbr> -> then go for X 00:45:11 <madbr> result: the game is all X and feels stylistically unified 00:45:30 <zzo38> If you need a keyboard you have the Famicom Keyboard too. The SNES mouse can also be used, if you need mouse input. 00:45:47 <madbr> there's no other real reason to do a NES games these days 00:45:53 -!- sambora has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:46:09 <madbr> because there are other platforms that do everything the NES did and take less time to develop for 00:46:10 <zzo38> No, I do it for many reason 00:46:34 <boily> the NES was a magical platform. 00:46:41 <zzo38> Doing it on other platform, then it won't run on a different platform that that one 00:46:55 <boily> (magical in that you had to do some heavy thaumaturgy just to get the damn cartridge to boot.) 00:47:04 <zzo38> My own programs "Famicom Hangman" and "Attribute Zone" do use the Family BASIC keyboard for input. 00:47:40 <madbr> there are platforms that are fundamentally nice 00:47:43 <zzo38> I write computer games for DOS computers too 00:47:47 <madbr> and platforms that are fundamentally hostile 00:48:24 <zzo38> Well, my opinion is that modern systems are relatively terrible. 00:48:27 <madbr> for instance the snes is fundamentally hostile 00:48:59 <madbr> modern systems are ok but they kinda guide you towards the wrong shape 00:49:16 <madbr> they're kinda too powerful in the wrong way 00:49:51 <zzo38> They are too complicated 00:49:55 <madbr> the ideal platform would let you only do a good, tight game 00:50:08 <madbr> IOS is NOT an ideal platform by this measure 00:50:24 <zzo38> IOS is terrible, too. Famicom is OK. 00:51:41 <madbr> if you look at game platforms, some platforms have only crap games 00:52:23 <madbr> this is influenced by power level and economic rentability (ie the budget of the games on that platform) 00:53:05 <madbr> but there's also a totally independent factor and some platforms have nice game libraries almost by voodoo magic 00:53:59 <madbr> my example on this is going to be game soundtracks: 00:54:11 <madbr> why do so few neogeo games have bad soundtracks? 00:54:32 <zzo38> Because the people who made neogeo are good composers. 00:58:03 <zzo38> I agree to write the emulator for architecture you coded it in. It is done today by people who made "Zooming Secretary" for NES and iPhone and so on, and Infocom did it with all of their games too, so yes this is the idea. 01:03:39 <zzo38> Do you think the music in my "Attribute Zone" game is good? My brother said is very good. 01:05:46 <madbr> how would I know 01:06:34 <zzo38> By hearing it, I suppose? 01:07:54 <zzo38> Full source-codes for all software involved (including the music itself) are also available. 01:08:38 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:13:22 <zzo38> It is mapper 11, so no expansion audio. There is also no percussion, just because I am not very good at percussion. 01:13:31 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:15:08 <madbr> you should try to learn how to compose it then 01:16:57 <madbr> usually it's just snares on 2 and 4 01:17:12 <zzo38> Yes perhaps I can try to learn percussion 01:17:21 <madbr> and kicks nominally on 1 and 3 but often displaced before or after or shuffled around in various ways 01:17:58 <zzo38> But all the files are in: http://zzo38computer.org/nes_program/attrzone.zip and the .NSF is the only one you need to play the music, though. 01:18:04 <madbr> hihats filling in not to loud on most eights in various rhythmic patterns with accented beats 01:18:20 <madbr> potentially with open hihat hits 01:18:41 <madbr> and then from time to time you have a fill and all of this stops and turns in whatever solo-y pattern fits best 01:18:48 <zzo38> Even if I do add percussion they would be using only the noise channel; I want to avoid use of DPCM 01:19:45 -!- CADD has joined. 01:21:23 <madbr> then you can do megaman style drums 01:21:41 <zzo38> I don't really know much about megaman style 01:21:53 <madbr> not as good as dpcm drums but better than nothing 01:22:20 <zzo38> Yes, probably that is true 01:23:06 <zzo38> I could use DPCM in the editor, but I want to avoid using up the ROM space for DPCM samples, too. 01:23:23 <madbr> you don't have to use lots 01:23:33 <madbr> just enough to get nice snares and kick 01:23:52 <madbr> you can mix DPCM with noise for snares 01:24:26 <zzo38> I know you can mix DPCM with noise, too. 01:24:50 <madbr> also a good trick for noise snares is that you have to give it a low frequency thwack 01:25:03 <madbr> before the high frequency wall of noise 01:25:28 <madbr> like, one or two frames of low frequency rumble then broadband shhhhhh 01:25:47 <zzo38> OK 01:26:15 <madbr> it's easier to try this out by experimenting 01:26:19 <zzo38> But maybe these existing songs might sound best without percussion anyways; I am not so sure. 01:26:54 <madbr> generally on nes you have so little going on that you need percussion to make the music go 01:27:12 <zzo38> Yes of course, I can understand that. 01:27:24 <madbr> like, even when remixing classical music on the nes it generally benefits from added percussion 01:27:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CONCUSSIVE CHICKEN). 01:28:27 <zzo38> Although the other game I intend to make next would be "Tape Battle", and probably using VRC6 mapper. Therefore, I would have additional sound channels available, although percussion is still possible too. 01:28:45 <madbr> dude 01:28:46 <zzo38> But for "Attribute Zone" game I don't intend to change the mapper to anything else from what it already is. 01:28:52 <madbr> start with most important things first 01:28:59 <madbr> percussion then maybe vrc6 01:29:45 <zzo38> I am much better at chord and multiple harmony than percussion. Although, music wasn't the only reason I intend to use VRC6, anyways; it is also due to the mapper's other features. 01:30:39 <zzo38> But of course, when writing music that is only meant for .NSF, I will often use more than one expansion audio (although sometimes only one or none at all). 01:30:41 <madbr> then work on percussion since that's your weakpoint 01:31:29 <zzo38> Yes, I can work on percussion too, especially for Attribute Zone game since not all of the music is yet complete in that game, so even if I don't add percussion to the existing music, the rest of the music can have percussion included. 01:31:51 <madbr> make people dance to the music 01:31:53 <zzo38> Currently the title screen music even uses only one channel, and I think it is good that way 01:32:18 <zzo38> The music isn't designed for dancing, although you can do that if you want. 01:33:19 <madbr> isn't the title screen the best place for grandiose music? 01:33:27 <madbr> with lots going on etc 01:33:50 <zzo38> I suppose so, but in this specific case, what it is now seems to be working OK. 01:35:07 <zzo38> Although the title screen itself doesn't contain much either, other than the title, a place to enter the level number (using either the D-pad or the numeric keys), and tell you what other functions are available. It contains no colors or animation or anything. 01:35:10 <madbr> I think it would benifit from more harmony, fake echoes, crazy bassline, fake chorus/detune, etc 01:35:11 <madbr> make it move 01:35:17 <madbr> drums 01:35:33 <madbr> spare 1k of data and get yourself a hard hitting snare 01:35:36 <zzo38> You may be correct. 01:35:56 <madbr> get your players all pumped up about the game 01:35:58 <zzo38> And I probably do have 1K spare. 01:36:49 <zzo38> I have not added support for detune into the playback engine so far though. 01:36:56 <madbr> title screen/intro/menus is the best place to put pics of your main character 01:36:59 <zzo38> But the game is not an action game at all; it is just a puzzle game. 01:37:08 <madbr> make the player care about the dude he's about to play with 01:37:10 <zzo38> There is no story behind it nor is there meant to be. 01:37:42 <madbr> once in game the character has to be small and has to deal with the game action and it's too late 01:38:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:39:08 <madbr> example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtId7oQz8-s 01:39:31 <zzo38> You are correct about those things, but this is not a story game. 01:39:39 <madbr> the title screen and menus and intros are plastered with that dude's face 01:39:47 <madbr> it's not even about a story 01:40:03 <madbr> it's about making the player identify to the main character 01:40:19 <madbr> a lot of games that do this barely have any story at all 01:41:03 <madbr> show him so that the players know who they're dealing with 01:42:55 <madbr> you want players to care about the gameplay 01:42:57 <zzo38> This isn't that kind of game, though. There isn't really any "main character" either; just one piece of the puzzle is a piece you can move directly by pushing the buttons (although some buttons also do other things such as detonate all bombs on the screen). 01:43:09 <madbr> ah yeah 01:43:18 <madbr> then it's a different type of game I guess 01:43:38 <zzo38> Yes, it is what I said. 01:43:50 <zzo38> In a different game though, yes I can certainly take your advice. 01:45:20 <madbr> well, it can also be applied to puzzle games (see: tetris attack) but it's defitively less important there 01:46:07 <zzo38> Yes I think is less important there, and for puzzle game I generally prefer without, anyways 01:48:07 <zzo38> And, you don't even have to put everything on the title screen (it may not fit); stuff can also put in label picture, box picture, and instruction book. (Label picture can be distributed as PNG, perhaps) 01:50:25 <zzo38> I consider the game play to be more important, though. 01:51:12 <madbr> for your gameplay to work you have to make the player care about the game first 01:54:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:55:54 <madbr> the player might not want to learn your game mechanics if he's not emotionally involved 01:58:11 <elliott> some people like puzzles. 01:58:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 01:59:26 <madbr> puzzles are great 01:59:38 <madbr> and they are even better when you involve human interest 02:01:17 <madbr> a lot of popular games are essentially puzzles but they are wrapped in all sorts of stuff that generate human interest (music, characters, settings, plot, etc) 02:04:11 <zzo38> I tend to prefer to think of them in abstract terms, but you can do what you like. All of these software are open-source, in fact!! 02:04:49 <zzo38> I may want a story for adventure game but for a puzzle game it is not necessary. 02:05:24 <zzo38> Chess puzzles don't generally have any music, characters, etc either. 02:05:39 <zzo38> (Although, one very old chess puzzle does have a story to go with it.) 02:06:10 <madbr> chess still has a human interst element 02:06:17 <madbr> first that you're playing against someone 02:06:28 <madbr> but also you're playing with an army 02:06:34 <madbr> that are fighting 02:06:37 <zzo38> Yes, although if it is a chess problem then there is no opponent 02:06:42 <madbr> and you "eat" the other guy's pieces 02:06:58 <zzo38> The proper term is "capture", but "eat" is used too 02:08:18 <madbr> and there's a reason you're playing with kings, queens and horses 02:08:29 <zzo38> Yes, that is historical reason 02:08:58 <elliott> and Go? 02:09:02 <elliott> Tetris? 02:09:06 <zzo38> But of course actual king, queen, horses, etc isn't working like that, so generally is just considered the name of the pieces these days. 02:09:13 <madbr> go is more abstract 02:09:18 <madbr> (and also less popular) 02:09:22 <zzo38> I am an abstract kind of gamer 02:09:34 <elliott> and yet still vastly popular. 02:09:50 <elliott> and I don't believe the main reason for chess's greater popularity is that the pieces have names. 02:10:21 <zzo38> elliott: They have names because there is more than one kind, for one thing; so that can help it. 02:10:24 <madbr> there are many more reasons yes 02:11:45 <madbr> but there's a good reason why so many games have a "narrative" 02:12:01 <zzo38> Yes, you can have a "narrative" if you want to 02:13:14 <madbr> why do you think candy crush is (unfortunately) so popular 02:13:30 -!- kmc has left. 02:13:47 <elliott> if you're telling people how to make their games more like candy crush, I hope they ignore you. 02:13:52 <zzo38> Magic: the Gathering puzzles generally do have a story associated with them, although I don't generally care much about the story of the puzzle or of the cards. I play Pokemon Card too, but just do it in abstract terms and my own Pokemon Card puzzles don't have any story associated with them. 02:14:24 <zzo38> madbr: The title? I don't like that title much but probably it seems a lot of people would like. 02:14:40 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:14:41 <MDude> Mentioning that the puzzle game involves a peice that moves aroudn and detonates bombs remotely reminded me of some N64 game that I never actually played. 02:15:58 <zzo38> The piece doesn't detonate bombs remotely; that is a global effect you can use by pushing one button, simply. The piece you move doesn't detonate bombs at all but some pieces do as part of their effect when colliding with bombs. 02:16:35 <zzo38> In order that you can tell apart the pieces, they are given names and icons (a bit more sensible than chess, though). 02:16:37 -!- vyv has joined. 02:16:58 <zzo38> For example a key is used to get past a door of the same color. 02:18:16 <MDude> Yeah, but I meant the game I'm talking about was similar. 02:19:17 <MDude> Actually, I forget how it worked, but I meant if you made the moveable peice a character, it would make snese for bombs to blow up globally via a key if you said it was a remote detonator. 02:19:39 <MDude> Though making it a character isn't needed. 02:21:39 <zzo38> If I want a game with a story, I can play text adventure game or Dungeons&Dragons game or whatever. I don't need graphics or music for those either. 02:22:08 <madbr> tbh I prefer stuff like mario rpg 02:26:08 <madbr> and for adventure games, the lucas arts stuff 02:26:31 <zzo38> That's fine, those game can be good too 02:27:18 <madbr> they take a lot more effort to develop 02:27:23 <madbr> but it's worth it 02:32:58 <zzo38> OK 02:33:18 <zzo38> Although, really it depend on preferences and on variety of things. 02:37:44 <zzo38> But I make many computer games in DOS that don't have graphics, although some do use graphics mode in order to draw overlapping icons or hex grid or other stuff that it can help with. 02:42:05 <Quintopia> as far as dos games go, my childhood was MEGARACE 02:43:05 <madbr> oh god that thing 02:43:06 <Quintopia> Let's see what you've won, Enforcer! An invitation to spend an evening out with yourself, including restaurant and a romantic movie. All expenses paid by Y-O-U. Do I hear wedding bells? 02:43:20 <madbr> it did have an intersting soundtrack 02:43:20 <Quintopia> (i still remember it like yesterday) 02:43:54 <Quintopia> i'm pretty sure it NEVER HAD SEQUELS. shhhhh 02:43:56 <madbr> one of the few games that does anything interesting with the hardware aside from playing midi 02:44:51 <madbr> all custom patches and all sorts of crazy detune effects and fake echoes etc 02:44:56 -!- not^v has joined. 02:45:56 <madbr> instead of the usual "just play a midi (that was composed on some expensive roland module so it sounds totally stupid on the end user computer)" bullshit 02:46:41 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:46:58 <Quintopia> any idea what sort of mad hoops i'd have to jump through to get it to run on a 64-bit win8 machine? 02:47:09 <madbr> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1FVdUTSlF4&list=PL6F9446A70251AFD4&index=3 so raw and agressive 02:47:16 <madbr> dosbox + prayer probably 02:48:00 <Quintopia> ngloop was a great track 02:48:32 <Quintopia> did he upload saturn or whatever 02:48:40 <Quintopia> the one where you get paloma 02:48:44 <madbr> why aren't there more games with music like this 02:51:07 <zzo38> Do you like to play Pokemon Card? 02:51:18 <madbr> the industrial one is "new fac", but my fav is suburb 02:51:38 <Quintopia> orbital junkyard 02:51:40 <Quintopia> that's the one 02:51:56 <Quintopia> sent me to tokyo every damn time 02:54:43 <Quintopia> hmm, do you think i could rip the midis from the disc? 02:56:13 <madbr> I don't think the game even uses midis 02:56:27 <madbr> I think it's some sort of custom music system (same as in Dune) 02:56:42 <zzo38> Maybe you could log them to VGM? 02:57:44 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:57:56 <Quintopia> so i'd have to get the damn thing to run, or track them down on the web (the link to the tracks on wikipedia is busted) 03:01:17 <Quintopia> "On April 15, 2014 it was announced conversions of the entire MegaRace Trilogy were being made for mobile and tablet devices along with a reboot of the franchise on PCs, game consoles, mobile, and tablet devices by ZOOM Platform and Jordan Freeman Group. Industry veteran, Bernie Stolar, is the Chairman of ZOOM and Jordan Freeman Group and was quoted in the press release" 03:01:58 <Quintopia> dunno why they're bothering to convert 3 :/ 03:06:13 <Quintopia> hmm i think suburb is the one that went with orbital junkyard for some reason 03:06:23 <madbr> yeah 03:10:14 <Sgeo> That is one small soundtrack 03:10:20 <Sgeo> Not that it's bad 03:15:00 <madbr> "I'm Lance Boyle and you'd be too if you were me." 03:17:22 <ion> https://twitter.com/torahhorse/status/475754225964572673 03:19:10 <zzo38> Do you have transpose/volume information for the Zeux series instruments that I can import into amigasam (a program I wrote for extracting instruments from .MOD music files)? 03:20:57 <madbr> most samples should play C at 8363hz 03:21:06 <madbr> but some are on different octaves 03:21:10 <zzo38> The format it uses is currently not compatible with any program other than AmigaMML (another program I wrote). 03:21:23 <zzo38> madbr: Yes, although some aren't tuned to C at 8363 03:21:46 <madbr> then you have to do it by ear 03:21:57 <madbr> figure out the transposition and reverse it 03:23:10 <zzo38> Yes I could try that 03:23:34 <madbr> there is no other way 03:24:06 <zzo38> OK 03:34:28 <zzo38> If you want to you can also try to use this amigasam format in other software, although currently there isn't any as far as I know of. 03:35:43 <madbr> I just rip samples straight out of amiga MODs in impulse tracker 03:36:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:36:31 <zzo38> That works, although MOD format stores no transpose information 03:36:53 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:44:31 <zzo38> This export format contains not only transpose, but also loop and base volume (which is not the same thing as default volume, although it will use the same value as default volume by default). 03:44:52 <zzo38> And the finetune, which is part of .MOD format anyways. 03:45:20 <zzo38> Most tracker music software can probably import directly from other music files and export them to whatever format they need 03:47:01 <zzo38> I know .IT format has its own transpose features and so on. 03:53:10 <zzo38> OpenMPT has no "reload current file" function as far as I can see, although the ENSATA DS emulator does have such a thing. 03:53:53 <madbr> reload current file? 03:54:59 <zzo38> I mean just a shortcut key to cause it to reload the current file which is open. Many emulators and music players have no such shortcut. 03:59:49 <madbr> it's usual to do this on a module because normally when you have a song open in MPT you're editing it in MPT 03:59:57 <madbr> and not with like 2 or 3 programs at the same time 04:00:40 <zzo38> MPT has no SQL editor or MML compiler integrated with it; if they did have both things then you probably wouldn't ever need to edit it with other programs at the same time. 04:01:48 <zzo38> (And if even those are insufficient, you could use SELECT LOAD_EXTENSION('more_stuff.dll'); or whatever) 04:02:10 <madbr> the point to using mpt is to avoid having to deal with mml or similar stuff 04:02:28 <madbr> it has a full featured pattern editor just for this 04:02:56 <madbr> the pattern editor has like thousands of manhours of work in it to make it work well 04:03:21 <zzo38> OpenMPT does have a replace menu, which can do a few things, but not quite everything you might want; I think using SQL to do batch replacements of this kind would work better. 04:03:44 <madbr> that's probably overdesign 04:04:06 <zzo38> Then don't need a replace menu and all of that stuff 04:04:10 <madbr> most users don't know SQL 04:04:48 <madbr> also the replace menu is specifically tailored to MPT's music data 04:04:55 <zzo38> But sure you could make one table to add things into the menu so that such thing can be added on 04:04:56 <madbr> that's a significant advantage 04:05:22 <madbr> also that would add dependency on some SQL library 04:05:36 <madbr> which would increase loading time, size etc 04:05:39 <zzo38> Yes it would; I use SQLite myself 04:06:09 <madbr> bloating software like that is not a good idea 04:06:47 <zzo38> I know, although mptrack.exe is already 2791 KB and has too many things compared to that really. 04:07:00 <zzo38> All the VST and stuff we don't need. 04:07:10 <zzo38> After all they aren't even portable! 04:07:29 <madbr> VST is 1000000 times more useful than adding SQL support for editing note data 04:07:37 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:07:39 <zzo38> I don't really think so. 04:07:41 <madbr> MPT was never portable 04:07:55 <madbr> it uses like... MFC 04:07:57 <zzo38> Modern version are adding more compatible playback though 04:08:04 <zzo38> That's what I mean 04:08:13 <madbr> the playback library is portable yes 04:08:28 <madbr> but the program itself is 100% win32 only 04:08:39 <zzo38> Yes, but that isn't what I meant at all 04:09:06 <zzo38> And of course it doesn't even have to be MPT; it is possible to make/use other software too, with same playback 04:09:13 <madbr> also doing replacements in pattern data can usually be faked with the existing block commands 04:09:27 <madbr> or by manipulating instrument parameters 04:09:44 <madbr> VST support is NOT fakable 04:10:25 <madbr> no amount of pattern data editing will let you fake a reverb 04:10:45 <zzo38> I still don't like VST and use Csound instead; it is open-source and much easier to edit than VST in my opinion, and also doesn't require GUI like VST does. 04:11:19 <zzo38> And if you use VST then these .MOD/.IT/whatever aren't a portable files anymore anyways. 04:11:28 <zzo38> You should make it a different program! 04:12:12 <madbr> GUIs are a feature 04:12:30 <zzo38> Yes, but it ought not to be a required feature. 04:12:46 <madbr> tweaking a synthesizer patch by text file is bothersome and slow 04:13:12 <madbr> the gui exists to make that process faster 04:13:22 <zzo38> I find it much easier and much more powerful though. Csound does support GUI too, though. 04:13:30 <madbr> since your patch is easier to edit the result is normally going to be better 04:13:46 <zzo38> So you can use GUI in Csound if you want to, either using its own FLTK and stuff or using external programs such as Blue. 04:13:52 <madbr> also GUIs are a significant time investment, you might as well use it 04:14:16 <madbr> ok link to one good looking GUI made for csound 04:14:18 -!- Bike has joined. 04:15:01 <zzo38> But I find it more convenient to edit the text file directly. GUI may be helpful to try tweaking the stuff, but even if I do such thing, I want to export it into a text that can be included in another file, and then be able to put in varying parameters and all of that stuff too 04:15:26 <zzo38> I don't know what GUI are available for Csound much, but I believe Blue has a lot of features. 04:15:37 <madbr> but does it look good 04:15:39 <zzo38> Csound can load VST as well, though, so you can still use all of the VST GUIs. 04:15:43 <madbr> and is it practical to edit 04:15:52 <zzo38> Why do you care if it "look good"? 04:16:19 <madbr> because I don't want to strain my eyes 04:16:21 <zzo38> To me it is not so practical to edit, but neither is any tracker music software. But many people who do use it, find it very practical and useul to use. 04:16:37 <zzo38> And I believe it does actually allow you to change the color if you don't like the blue colors. 04:17:35 <zzo38> Csound also has the capability to be used as a VST. 04:18:00 <madbr> it's too open-ended 04:18:27 <madbr> it's like max-msp 04:18:29 <zzo38> However, I don't really like VST; they cost too much and you have to get each one individually, and it is Windows-only and difficult to do the advanced stuff that Csound is capable to do. 04:18:40 <madbr> you can in theory do everything in max-msp 04:19:34 <madbr> in practice you can do everything but it's held by duck tape, it's never tight and it's not really conductive to actually composing music 04:20:01 <madbr> there's a reason VSTs cost money 04:20:03 <zzo38> I find Csound works very well though, and so do many others. 04:20:13 <madbr> high development time 04:20:36 -!- aloril has joined. 04:20:49 <zzo38> Even if they don't cost money, I still don't like VST, so I don't use it. 04:21:02 <madbr> it's that high development time that makes it so that the synth isn't held together with duct tape and it doesn't break whenever you try to do anything 04:21:30 <madbr> also one big feature is that they are made by people who know what they're doing so everything is implemented the right way around 04:21:49 <madbr> for instance, and envelope (ADSR) can be implemented the right way or the wrong way 04:22:11 <zzo38> Csound doesn't "break whenever you try to do anything" either, and they are also made by people who know what they are doing, and are developed over a much longer period of time than VST, and is also open-source (GNU LGPL). 04:22:12 <madbr> if you get a stupid synth like some thing a dude made in synthedit, then it's going to be implemented the wrong way 04:23:29 <zzo38> Csound has a lot of commands included so that you can just start working on it right away. 04:23:38 <madbr> in text data 04:23:47 <zzo38> Yes 04:24:03 <zzo38> But I find it works best. 04:24:07 <madbr> your feedback loop (change something - test - change something - test - change something - test...) is never going to be short 04:24:09 <zzo38> Some people don't, but they don't have to use it! 04:24:23 <madbr> short feedback loop is super important 04:24:27 <madbr> and csound doesn't have it 04:24:56 <madbr> that's why I use impulse tracker 04:24:59 <zzo38> I find I can do it without taking too long. 04:25:01 <madbr> it has a short feedback loop 04:25:08 <madbr> zzo38 : that's NOT short 04:25:42 <zzo38> All that means is that you are good at Impulse Tracker and that you are not very good at Csound. 04:25:51 <madbr> no 04:26:03 <zzo38> If you like Impulse Tracker, then use it, but I don't like it, and can work faster in other ways 04:26:03 <madbr> there's a difference between hearing changes as you make them 04:26:21 <madbr> and hearing them 10 seconds later after a text editor save 04:26:47 <zzo38> It is your assumption that you have to do it one at a time! Well, you don't! 04:27:21 <madbr> no you have to work super fast 04:27:33 <madbr> otherwise you forget your musical ideas before you can type them in 04:27:49 <zzo38> That is not how I think of music, though. 04:28:21 <madbr> ultra tight musical data editors (piano rolls, trackers, etc) are not a luxury 04:28:24 <madbr> they are a necessity 04:28:26 <zzo38> Do you ever work with writing down musical notations? 04:28:45 <madbr> I've done it a couple of times 04:28:52 <madbr> For school 04:29:17 <madbr> It's a different ballgame... it's kindof like text editing, but with musical symbols 04:29:26 <madbr> where the goal is to produce an easy to read part 04:29:31 <zzo38> Writing it by hand is going to be a bit slow, but I have done it nevertheless, even in the bus. 04:29:54 <zzo38> I find the text file almost as easy to read, but much faster to enter/edit. 04:29:55 <MDude> Muisc notation: "Toot toot honk toot" 04:30:13 <madbr> also I'm not too good at sight reading 04:30:17 <madbr> which is very hard imho 04:30:52 <MDude> "Where am I about to dissapear to?" 04:31:00 <madbr> zzo38 : how do you know if the melody you've entered is strong or not so interesting? 04:31:13 <zzo38> Then why do you think you are a very good musician if you are such bad at sight reading? I find it important for writing music. 04:31:17 <MDude> Also, where am I going to put the extra pumpkin point if there's no room on my board now?" 04:31:19 <zzo38> madbr: I can make good guesses by my mind. 04:31:35 <MDude> Wait whty am I talkigna bout rthwe stream here. 04:31:36 <madbr> zzo38 : I'm just comparatively better at other things 04:31:38 <zzo38> Sometimes it is wrong, but not so likely. 04:32:00 <madbr> zzo38 : sure that's an ok first guess, but to really know you have to hear 04:32:04 <zzo38> madbr: O, that's fine 04:32:06 <madbr> and THEN you know 04:32:13 <madbr> which is why I use a tracker 04:32:32 <madbr> then I can instantly play it back 04:32:43 <madbr> and fix the mistakes, improve how it sounds etc 04:32:45 <zzo38> I find that it is also difficult to know even if it is only a few notes, even if you play them right away; I need to put all notes together to make the music to listen if it is wrong or not. 04:33:07 <madbr> try out 3 or 4 ways of doing voice leading in a bunch of crazy jazz chords 04:33:10 <zzo38> But, really it depend what kind of way work best for you for writing a music. 04:33:32 <zzo38> I use classical rather than jazz chords, so perhaps that makes a difference, too. 04:33:38 <madbr> I do both 04:34:20 <madbr> I've kindof half forgot the counterpoint rules so I just wing it 04:34:51 <madbr> and then I listen to know if it works 04:36:15 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:37:08 <zzo38> Although some people don't use MML, tracker, piano roll, or anything like that and prefer just to play it on the piano and record the audio onto a tape or CD. I know someone who write music and prefers this method. 04:37:23 <zzo38> He plays guitar too, not only piano. 04:37:57 <madbr> I use piano to try out new ideas, try to figure out new chords to add to my style etc 04:38:12 <madbr> and just improvise around 04:38:13 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:39:32 <madbr> I guess piano + pencil on music sheet works as a music composition technique 04:39:40 <zzo38> I do know how to play piano too, and do sometimes try stuff too, but usually I play a music that is already written down; either from a book or I write it down myself and then play it. I don't do it so often though because I usually work with computer instead; it is much faster. 04:41:16 <zzo38> At time of Bach and so on they would always only be writing it down and that kind of stuff. Some composers even were deaf and still could write music. 04:43:38 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:43:47 <madbr> you should probably learn jazz chords btw 04:44:39 <zzo38> madbr: Maybe I will some day. I did read a few things about it from my sister's books actually, but don't know everything about it. They sometimes work, sometimes not so well, really. Some jazz music are good and some are worse, I find. 04:44:48 <zzo38> I find it too slow to type music into the tracker grid and to go back and edit it, so that is why I think that using a integrated tracker+SQL+MML would work best (it is one reason, anyways). 04:45:35 <zzo38> All extra menus and stuff and macro and so on can be defined externally rather than having to put all of that stuff into the program at once. 04:45:49 <madbr> you should learn to use a DAW 04:45:53 <madbr> that's where it's at 04:46:39 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:46:49 <zzo38> I have used DAW, but find it is difficult, and yet I would also need to buy a MIDI input device. 04:47:08 <madbr> it is difficult 04:47:09 <zzo38> Actually the digital piano I do have supports MIDI, but it is in a different room from the computer. 04:47:22 <madbr> but it's what has the highest payoff 04:47:54 <zzo38> I find Csound can do everything that DAW can do (even real-time, MIDI input, etc), and it is also free, too. 04:48:29 <zzo38> I also don't need DAW because I am not a professional music writer. 04:48:35 <madbr> on paper csound does everything 04:48:50 <madbr> in practice, it's just not a music composition tool 04:49:05 <zzo38> Well, to me it is, as well as several others. 04:49:29 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:52:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39820 * Icepy * (+1362) Created page with "Pluso is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:Icepy|Icepy]] in 2014. This programming language is called pluso because it has to commands: plus and output. T..." 04:53:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39821&oldid=39820 * Icepy * (-1) 04:56:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39822&oldid=39821 * Icepy * (+28) /* Hello world */ 04:58:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39823&oldid=39822 * Icepy * (+27) 04:58:37 <Sgeo> [S] Rex Duodecim Angelus released 04:58:47 <zzo38> Csound has been in development since 1985, and is still being updated today. Csound does support real-time and interactive if that helps you. There are many GUI and other stuff. Blue does have piano rolls, tracker style format, algorithmic generation, and more. 04:59:58 <zzo38> Things you say about Csound and MML and stuff being not useful is simply not true. The fact is, it depend your style of writing music what works best for you. If you don't find Csound and MML useful, then don't use them! 05:01:37 <madbr> impulse tracker is embedded onto my muscle memory 05:01:37 -!- CADD has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:02:04 <zzo38> Yes, use it if that helps you. 05:02:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:06:25 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:10:57 <zzo38> But I wrote AmigaMML so that I can use that instead. 05:16:50 <madbr> one of my current pet project is trying to come up with a language for a megazeux successor 05:17:03 <zzo38> I also find that Impulse Tracker format is too complicated, as well as being too limited in some ways too (you cannot have multiple effects per cell) 05:17:30 <zzo38> madbr: Interesting idea; I also have many idea relating to such thing! Mine is probably completely different. 05:17:42 <madbr> yes 05:18:13 <madbr> - multiple "threads" per object 05:20:28 <madbr> - basic data types are floats, strings (std::string basically), vectors of floats (std::vector basically). variables are either local to objects, or global 05:21:14 <madbr> - object-local variables can be "generic" (ie all objects have that variable and you can read/write it on other objects) 05:21:40 <madbr> - thread supports basic megazeux-like flow control (wait 1, end, goto, send...) 05:22:40 <Sgeo> I still love this art http://wow.zamimg.com/images/hearthstone/cards/enus/animated/GAME_005_premium.gif?4443 05:23:15 <madbr> - objects have some forced built-in variables like x, y, vx, vy (velocity), ax, ay (acceleration), hflip, hp... 05:24:19 <madbr> - you can send messages to a collide box 05:24:43 <madbr> - objects clip against the background (and probably other "solid" objects) 05:25:23 <madbr> - background is 2d tiled (designed for tiled 2d games like platformers, space shooters, zelda-likes and rpgs) 05:26:23 <madbr> - each tile in the tileset can have various attributes such as "solid" 05:26:36 <madbr> - slope tiles are also built-in 05:27:35 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 05:28:39 <zzo38> It doesn't have much to do with MegaZeux really, although may have some things inspired by MegaZeux; it is good though. Completely different from my own ideas, which is something closer to ZZT and MegaZeux. 05:28:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:28:57 <madbr> well 05:29:11 <madbr> the concept is geared towards 2d tiled games 05:29:22 <madbr> which means it needs a reasonable of 2d physics 05:29:44 <madbr> also objects cannot be tiles anymore 05:30:11 <zzo38> Yes I can see, what you are writing is good and stuff, but different from my own ideas which aren't meant for the same kind of games really 05:31:55 <madbr> what's your design? 05:34:07 <zzo38> It still has color/thing/param like MegaZeux, and the "thing" is either a primitive (which can be user-defined in the format file), or if it is too high, the thing/param together designate a robot ID. Therefore, the maximum number of robots depends on how many primitives are defined. 05:34:53 <zzo38> Font height is a global setting of the game, and there are four fonts: system, text, robot, and object. The "robot" set can be set per board; "text" and "object" per world; "system" is immutable. 05:35:25 <madbr> mhm 05:35:49 <zzo38> Many things are now defined in the format file (a standard one is provided, which you edit for your game if necessary). 05:36:21 <zzo38> No more built-in ammo, health, lives, etc; you can define those yourself. 05:36:48 <zzo38> A few primitive objects and Robotic commands are built-in, while others are defined in the format file. 05:37:10 <madbr> and how does the format file define new object types 05:37:23 <zzo38> In Forth. 05:37:37 <zzo38> Similar to what I have experimented modifying MegaZeux, but in a much better way than that. 05:37:53 <zzo38> Things like board properties are also defined in the format file. 05:38:18 <zzo38> That is, which board properties are available; the settings for each board are done in the editor like ZZT and MegaZeux do. 05:38:41 <madbr> does it expand the graphics? 05:39:22 <zzo38> Graphics would be similar to MegaZeux, but with four banks of 256 characters and two bits per pixel, and a customizable (per-world) font height, but always 8 pixels wide. 05:39:45 <madbr> why not 4 bits per pixel? 05:41:19 <zzo38> Due to the way colors will work, for simplicity, and to be closer to the MegaZeux. Each tile drawn on screen still has a background and foreground color, and one bit per pixel is used to select the alternate palette rather than the default one. 05:41:55 <zzo38> So, each tile still has colors same as in MegaZeux graphics mode 0, or PC text mode. 05:44:22 <madbr> mhm 05:45:02 <madbr> one of my issues with megazeux is that it's hard to make nice action games because the tile-by-tile motion always feels kinda clunky 05:45:21 <madbr> especially when all your sprites are 1x1 05:45:45 <zzo38> Number of built-in primitive objects is probably small, perhaps only empty, custom wall, and player (for things like GO SEEK, but player is now optional). All others are defined in the format file. 05:46:48 <zzo38> I can understand you, although those are not the kind of action games I would be trying to design with MegaZeux anyways. 05:49:01 <madbr> also 1x1 sprites are tiny 05:49:28 <madbr> forces you to do all the character development/identification through text 05:49:45 <zzo38> I prefer doing character development/idenficiation through text anyways 05:50:02 <zzo38> I don't really like cutscenes 05:50:56 <madbr> I think the way is large sprites 05:51:03 <madbr> but this is hard to do in mzx 05:51:26 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:51:57 <zzo38> Yes it is hard to do in MZX, but to me that is not the point; they are not important for these kind of computer game. 05:54:15 <madbr> for me they are important 05:54:36 <zzo38> madbr: Well, that is why you make up that new one difference instead; it is still good too. 05:55:11 <zzo38> But I just don't like cutscenes and prefer text window. 05:56:03 <madbr> I'm not talking about cutscenes 05:56:14 <madbr> they're a different thing 05:56:20 <madbr> I'm talking about in game 05:56:40 <zzo38> It depend what type of game, really. 05:56:49 <madbr> if you try to make a game with more than 1x1 characters in mzx 05:57:00 <madbr> you either have to use sprites 05:57:07 <madbr> which are imho not very well designed 05:57:16 <zzo38> MZX isn't really suitable for the kind of game with more than 1x1 characters 05:57:20 <madbr> and also don't interact with anything else which sucks 05:57:31 <zzo38> But it is a different kind of games anyways 05:57:32 <madbr> right 05:57:58 <madbr> I want larger characters because that improves emotional impact 05:58:18 <madbr> and helps make action games less clunky 05:58:29 <zzo38> To me, it makes less things fit on the screen. 05:59:08 <zzo38> Using MegaZeux like that seem to be, you should be using something else. And your ideas can be used to make up such a program for this kind of design, it can be good idea! 06:02:26 <zzo38> But the thing I am trying to make is an entirely different kind of thing than yours, and for different purposes. 06:12:51 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 06:14:41 -!- fowl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:21:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:21:47 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 06:22:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:27:15 -!- fowl has joined. 06:28:20 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:39:55 <Sgeo> http://www.clickhole.com/video/what-adorable-little-girl-says-will-melt-your-hear-286 06:40:01 <Sgeo> I may end up addicted to ClickHole 06:54:43 <shachaf> Sgeo: are you playing the clicking game 06:54:47 <shachaf> unlocking those achievements 06:57:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Icepy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39824&oldid=39693 * Icepy * (+52) 06:59:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39825&oldid=39791 * Icepy * (+12) /* P */ 07:07:19 -!- conehead has joined. 07:31:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:26:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:35:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:35:53 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:42:39 <b_jonas> is anyone considering to create a BANCStar parody language yet? as in, an esolang where the source code tries to mimic BANCStar source code. 08:43:35 <zzo38> Probably not yet, as far as I know 08:44:22 <mroman> I am. 08:44:34 <b_jonas> great 08:47:51 <mroman> It's based on lanterna 08:48:03 <mroman> (http://code.google.com/p/lanterna/) 08:50:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:51:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:55:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:58:48 <mroman> b_jonas: If you have some specific ideas...? 08:59:35 <mroman> I was thinking of roughly having a prompt file per application, 12 form files and 12 screen files 08:59:53 <mroman> Form-Files describe the TextUI 09:00:02 <mroman> and the screen file is the code behind each Form 09:00:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:01:21 <b_jonas> mroman: I was actually thinking of something that doesn't behave like BANCStar, it's only the source code that looks like BANCStar 09:01:34 <b_jonas> so source code must have lines with four optional numbers per line, 09:01:39 <b_jonas> no comments allowed, 09:02:01 <b_jonas> numbers are between -32768 and 32767, and 0 is sometimes omitted 09:02:31 <b_jonas> and sometimes the last digit or the first digit is taken separately 09:02:53 <mroman> so... no prompt file too? 09:03:17 <b_jonas> if you just mean an array of 2000 variables, then sure, that could exist 09:06:55 <b_jonas> I was thinking of encoding a scheme program (with some limitations) as numbers such that each positive number encodes a symbol in the first four digits and a parenthesis pattern in the last digit, 09:07:11 <b_jonas> and negative numbers encode a literal (numeric or character), 09:07:16 <b_jonas> but this isn't good enough, 09:07:45 <b_jonas> because it wouldn't replicate the way how there are lots of zeros, often multiple zeros in a line, and how the first of the four numbers in a line has a different distribution. 09:09:13 <mroman> well 09:09:22 <mroman> If you have something that's good enough do it ;) 09:09:34 <mroman> writing a bancstar-mimic is currently on my todo list not in the first place ;) 09:09:43 <mroman> I've just made some sketches but nothing more 09:10:55 <mroman> currently on top of my todo-list is my CoreWar-clone 09:14:50 <b_jonas> I'll think more about this 09:16:54 <oerjan> must... break out... of logs' endianness discussion... 09:29:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:39:46 * oerjan succeeded, btw 09:47:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39826&oldid=39801 * Zzo38 * (+440) 09:47:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39827&oldid=39826 * Zzo38 * (-1) 09:54:32 <oerjan> fungot: so what do you think of this eugene goostman guy 09:54:41 <fungot> oerjan: children's online privacy protection act please see their homepages and check out :) is it possible to run very often, but it's still better than nothing 09:54:59 <oerjan> fungot: it sounds like you've been taken in completely 09:55:01 <fungot> oerjan: " this is a bad idea anyway to avoid that one! i was raised on thought balloons!! 09:58:01 <shachaf> ^style 09:58:01 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 10:05:24 <b_jonas> please add the bibul style, based on http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/bibul which was downloaded from http://www.lolcatbible.com/ 10:10:03 -!- boily has joined. 10:43:02 <fizzie> fungot: You were not raised on thought balloons, stop cheating people. 10:43:02 <fungot> fizzie: can you say java is the best language for fnord 10:43:24 <fizzie> fungot: I can say that but it doesn't make it true. 10:43:26 <fungot> fizzie: first of all, it is not 10:43:57 <fizzie> Right, that's what I just said. 10:44:59 <fizzie> @tell boily I don't get it 10:45:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:45:53 <boily> @tell fizzie me neither. 10:45:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 10:47:08 <fizzie> (It means "one".) 10:47:18 <shachaf> fungot: what's the best language for fnord 10:47:19 <fungot> shachaf: others wouldn't even think about that, since it ( a, b).... is that a group won't make substantial political progress without appealing to a majority. 10:48:52 -!- constant has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 10:49:07 <oerjan> fizzie: you didn't see the whole thing http://i.imgur.com/7gSGv1S.jpg 10:50:08 -!- mhi^ has joined. 10:50:15 <oerjan> also i already google translated it for boily but i'm not sure he realized 10:50:34 <boily> fungot: don't think, no majority... is it forth? 10:50:53 <fungot> boily: it should look like before i saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness starving hysterical naked! 10:50:53 <boily> fungot: forth it is. 10:50:53 <fungot> boily: nope, just something i couldn't get to sleep... will check in some other place in memory 10:50:55 <boily> fungot: okay then. I'll ask you later. 10:51:00 <fungot> boily: gwydion if you generate an absolutely disgusting amount of getter/ setter methods and constructors are in that list too. ( let ( ( x 1) 10:51:16 <boily> oerjan: I think I remember realizing you translated it, but I'm not sure. 10:52:10 <shachaf> fungot: what's up got 10:52:10 <fungot> shachaf: they use css to find the code, i'm more a pi guy than a fnord location whose contents is initialized to zero 10:53:06 <shachaf> fungot: we are all of us fnord locations whose contents is initialized to zero 10:53:06 <fungot> shachaf: guile seems to be particularly welcome on irc. 10:53:19 <shachaf> fungot: more than you know hth 10:53:21 <fungot> shachaf: ( lambda ( x y) x y)? what operation would that perform, if ( proc-a) is not 10:53:45 <boily> fungot: ID! 10:53:54 <fungot> boily: they forced the addition of laml 10:53:55 -!- variable has joined. 10:55:22 -!- glogbackup has joined. 11:01:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PRISMATIC CHICKEN). 11:09:38 <fizzie> "One delicious super ice cream", then. 11:09:53 <fizzie> (It was loading p. slow on this thing.) 11:26:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Insomnia]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39828&oldid=13211 * 175.156.179.223 * (+125) /* About command 8 */ new section 11:35:52 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 11:50:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:59:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 12:02:56 -!- variable has joined. 12:05:44 -!- spike has joined. 12:11:47 -!- spike has left. 12:34:59 -!- password2 has joined. 12:51:13 -!- yorick has joined. 13:17:39 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 13:17:49 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:23:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:32:14 -!- Bike has joined. 13:56:05 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:57:30 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:10:09 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:31:45 <ion> On what planet was this released? https://github.com/haskell-distributed/distributed-process/blob/eae0a41/ChangeLog#L1 14:39:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:48:14 -!- mihow has joined. 15:05:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:07:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fishstacks]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39829&oldid=39214 * 75.102.84.17 * (+1) 15:10:27 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:25:06 <b_jonas> I just misread "serialized" as "sterilized". Must be Friday. 15:34:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:41:37 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:46:21 -!- edwardk has joined. 15:55:25 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:05:03 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:10:00 <mroman> well 16:10:11 <mroman> Some objects bette be sterilized! 16:10:22 <mroman> Java-Beans and so on 16:24:45 <fizzie> Somehow I have gotten stuck permanently "Online" in Skype. 16:25:01 <fizzie> At least I'm reasonably sure I have no Skype clients running anywhere. 16:34:15 <int-e> a google search suggests: "The solution is: Unlink your Skype account and your Microsoft account" 16:36:24 <fizzie> I don't have them linked, so I can't follow that. 16:36:25 <int-e> (from this thread: http://community.skype.com/t5/Mac/Why-do-I-always-show-as-quot-online-quot/td-p/1038298 the first 4 posts are hilarious) 16:36:35 <fizzie> (I'm kind of proud that I thought of that without a Google search.) 16:37:25 <int-e> send a cease and desist letter to the NSA demanding that they stop running Skype clients on your behalf. 16:38:24 <fizzie> The last page of the thread did let me know of /showplaces, which is a command I was sort of wondering whether it existed. 16:39:20 <fizzie> I only have one online endpoint, the one where I did /showplaces in. 16:39:38 <fizzie> And when I shut down that client, I'm apparently still listed as "Online". 16:39:44 <fizzie> It is a puzzling. 16:41:23 <fizzie> I also manually set my status to "Offline" and I still show up as "Online". 16:41:39 <fizzie> The NSA explanation sounds likely at this point. 16:53:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:58:19 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:00:28 -!- erdic has joined. 17:13:24 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:14:38 -!- mihow has joined. 17:15:31 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 17:24:48 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:26:59 -!- edwardk has joined. 17:27:54 -!- edwardk_ has joined. 17:30:26 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:31:34 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:47:35 -!- mihow has joined. 17:54:35 -!- Zuu has joined. 17:57:55 -!- Bike has joined. 18:09:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:16:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:22:18 -!- edwardk_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:51:00 -!- conehead has joined. 18:56:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:37:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 19:48:58 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:50:50 -!- shachaf has joined. 19:58:38 -!- Bike has joined. 20:02:43 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:02:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 20:09:19 -!- lollo64it has joined. 20:13:27 -!- Jafet has left. 20:42:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smilefuck]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39830 * Sacchan * (+2266) Created page with "'''Smilefuck''' is an esoteric programming language similar to [[brainfuck]]. It was created on June 6th, 2014 by [[User:Sacchan]]. == Memory layout == The datastructure mani..." 20:43:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smilefuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39831&oldid=39830 * Sacchan * (-4) 20:43:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smilefuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39832&oldid=39831 * Sacchan * (+10) 20:45:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smilefuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39833&oldid=39832 * Sacchan * (-44) 20:45:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Smilefuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39834&oldid=39833 * Sacchan * (+1) 21:15:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:15:51 <password2> wait , does the topic update on each wiki edit? 21:16:13 <Bike> the topic? clearly not 21:16:16 <Bike> that's just HackEgo talking 21:16:25 <password2> lol 21:16:40 <zzo38> You can filter out those messages if you don't like them, like I have done. 21:16:42 <password2> sorry i saw colored text and thought topic 21:16:54 <password2> its the first time i see them 21:17:32 <Bike> >2011 >not being used to colored text 21:17:45 <FireFly> um it's 2014 21:17:55 <Bike> prove it nerd 21:18:21 <Bike> my grandpa actually thought it was 2015 a few days ago, that was odd 21:21:09 * Melvar checks that the way ST separates threads would work fine in idris. 21:21:40 <shachaf> Bike: what's with the whole "calling people nerds" thing 21:23:03 <shachaf> is the joke "i'm a nerd myself and therefore it's funny that i would call somebody else one. and in addition i don't actually think it's insulting i just use it as if it was an insult" 21:23:11 <Melvar> “let v = runST (\x => newVar True) in runST (\y => readVar v)” → “Can't unify ST s (MutVar s Bool) with ST x (MutVar y iType)” (x and y named for illustrative purposes) 21:23:15 <Bike> i dunno, probably 21:29:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:43:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:45:43 -!- shikhout has joined. 21:49:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:49:52 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:52:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:55:13 <zzo38> The thing I want to know of someone else knows, is a way I can define the way to define a set of new symbols (which may be nullary, unary, binary, etc) for sequent calculus, and primitive rules to go with them, such that: * These rules only use the new symbols on the bottom and only outermost of a term. * It can be proven that there are no new theorems which do not involve these new symbols. * Such proof can be used for the computer to perform 21:57:39 <oerjan> zzo38: i think in type theory those are called soundness proofs, although i don't know much about the details. 21:58:14 <oerjan> or at least close to soundness proofs 21:58:51 <oerjan> girl genius still hasn't updated today :( 21:59:03 <oerjan> those things from wednesday still look pretty scary, though. 22:03:12 <diginet> lel this channel has may-may arrows? >mfw 22:03:16 <diginet> oh :/ 22:03:27 <oerjan> what's a may-may arrow 22:04:02 <Bike> probably 4chan style quotes. >quoted text i only use them because ia m insufferable 22:04:22 <Bike> it's just irc green, of course 22:04:44 <oerjan> diginet: i don't think i've seen them before today 22:05:16 <olsner> bancstar in topic, did something happen to that? I remember we were trying to figure out how to figure out where it went 22:05:22 <zzo38> oerjan: Soundness proofs? I don't know much about that either. 22:06:26 <oerjan> olsner: mroman got in touch with a guy who has a github repository on it, and some additional info was dug out 22:06:43 <oerjan> and zzo38 has been reverse engineering 22:06:50 <olsner> sweet! 22:07:05 <oerjan> and the wiki got a page on it. 22:08:04 <oerjan> (the eleven was my attempt at a subtle joke on some quote approximately like "the program only 10 people can read") 22:10:03 <FireFly> good joke. 22:15:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:16:20 <FireFly> olsner: the wiki has a decent article on it now 22:16:49 <FireFly> eh 22:17:02 <FireFly> it helps to not forget the lines I read a few minutes ago 22:19:43 <diginet> has anyone here ever used META-II? 22:20:07 <MDude> I've use Metapod. 22:25:12 <zzo38> I have not used META-II 22:27:59 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:28:36 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 22:29:59 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:31:10 <oerjan> hm news about an ad turning on people's xbox via the speech recognition 22:31:30 <oerjan> i smell the next annoying internet prank 22:32:04 <MDude> Yes, it will be so nice when speech recognition is sued more widely. 22:32:12 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:32:44 <MDude> With that and text to speech engines, I'll soon be able to have a group of electronic devices chattering with each other, all mistaking each other's commands for those of humans. 22:32:46 <oerjan> i find your use of "sued" intriguing, as i can just about imagine you _didn't_ misspell it. 22:32:51 <MDude> *used 22:33:11 <MDude> That could be interesting as well. 22:34:13 <oerjan> a virus spreading through speech recognition... 22:34:20 <oerjan> or at least a bot loop. 22:35:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:37:08 <zzo38> I don't like speech command anyways and consider it is a bad idea. When dialing a telephone number that includes such a thing, I normally just push zero right away and hope it works. In the case of directory assistance, it does work. But in one case, someone told me, they had to tell them that they are an idiot before the computer tried to connect them to an operator. 22:37:23 <zzo38> The numbered menus I am OK with though 22:40:05 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:41:00 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:42:30 -!- mihow has joined. 22:43:19 <Sgeo> What is the deal with today's Dilbert? 22:45:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:48:00 <MDude> I guess it wants us to eat dark chocolate? 22:48:08 <MDude> I'm not going to argue with that. 22:49:07 <MDude> Also, the conclusion at the end is itself at least somewhat magical thinking. 22:55:05 <zzo38> The reason I wanted to know about those things with proofs about new symbol in sequent calculus is presumable to make something like that in the type/class definitions for Gentzen esolang 22:58:25 <oerjan> MDude: the worship of rationality does not necessarily come with the ability to distinguish it. 22:59:18 -!- mhi^ has joined. 22:59:28 <oerjan> (above statement probably also magical thinking.) 23:03:32 <zzo38> How to tell Mozilla the maximum amount of time and memory to take while parsing CSS? 23:03:59 <zzo38> Or, really perhaps, rendering CSS 23:08:15 <monotone_> Well, you can tell it zero by disabling stylesheets. 23:08:18 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to polytone. 23:08:43 <polytone> I don't think there are many other choices. 23:23:27 <zzo38> Maybe UniMod format is better than Impulse Tracker? 23:24:43 <MDude> oerjan: Yeah, I meant that was what was up with the comic. 23:25:56 <zzo38> Then you don't need only one effect per note, I think. 23:27:13 <zzo38> Or a simplified version of such could help, possibly, by removing some redundant stuff 23:46:21 -!- Bike has joined. 2014-06-14: 00:02:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:06:47 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:08:51 -!- Bike has joined. 00:09:23 <MDude> I wonder why META II is called that and not jsut META. 00:09:25 <MDude> Or META I. 00:11:06 <Bike> or 'PARA 00:12:13 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:16:46 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:33:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:46:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:48:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:53:40 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:53:57 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 01:07:35 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:07:54 -!- ^v has joined. 01:12:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:15:51 -!- not^v has joined. 01:45:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:47:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:56:11 -!- Jafet has joined. 02:19:32 -!- kyhwana has joined. 02:33:38 -!- edwardk has joined. 02:34:11 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 02:37:13 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:41:41 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:44:58 <zzo38> Is it legal, under the GPL, to sell the current version of the software plus a subscription allowing you to receive new versions at no extra charge during the subscription period, with a clause in the subscription license (not the software) that says they are allowed to terminate the subscription if they find you distributing copies of the software, and require you to pay full price for the next version? 02:46:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:52:28 <kyhwana> zzo38: hrm, im not sure about that, given the GPL says you're allowed to/have to distribute the source with the binary? 02:54:19 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:56:04 <zzo38> kyhwana: I know that you have to distribute the source, but I don't think that has anything to do with my question. 02:57:35 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:03:18 <kyhwana> zzo38: yeah, you'd probably have to ask a lawyer 03:21:40 <zzo38> kyhwana: Someone else told me that it is allowed, and is what Red Hat does with binaries (although their sources are available to the public). 03:23:26 <kyhwana> Yeah, possibly 03:47:15 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:59:53 <fowl> theres a channel on freenode for license discussion 04:00:03 <fowl> i think 05:12:14 <zzo38> For proving the use of a new operator in a sequent calculus, as I have described above, could it work to do it involving the cut rule, like: For every pair of rules using the new operator on the bottom where one is used on the right of the turnstile and one on the left, you prove what a cut would prove by using everything on the top of both rules. 05:12:46 <zzo38> How well is it working? There may still be a problem possibly... 05:18:23 -!- b_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:20:40 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 05:53:06 <Sgeo> I'm finding myself addicted to TagPro 05:55:40 <Sgeo> Wins 4 Losses 10 06:04:34 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39835&oldid=39804 * 72.220.70.84 * (+113) 06:25:41 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:26:19 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:27:14 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:28:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:35:55 <Sgeo> Huh 06:35:59 <Sgeo> http://lpaste.net/88416 06:36:11 <Sgeo> So maybe it IS possible for Chrome scripts to do arbitrary things to a page 06:37:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * IdleGamesRock * New user account 06:42:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IdleGamesRock]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39836 * IdleGamesRock * (+17) Created page with "Hi! I'm a person!" 06:51:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:55:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:56:27 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:01:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:15:27 <Sgeo> Erlang reminds me of OpenBSD 07:16:04 <Sgeo> Erlang has a 'let-it-crash' philosophy that may not be a good idea in environments other than Erlang. OpenBSD projects have a 'trust the OS' philosophy that may not be a good idea for OSes other than OpenBSD 07:21:02 <elliott> this seems like an incredibly tenuous connection 07:28:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:32:55 -!- augur has joined. 07:39:03 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:47:58 -!- augur has joined. 07:59:56 <zzo38> Now I am adding support for Extended Module into AmigaMML, too, as well as a few other features which are compatible with both Amiga mode and Extended mode. 08:10:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:17:08 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:18:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:46:07 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I had a dream that your uni accommodation was in York and you left it unlocked so I wondered in and you had an en-suite library 08:46:25 <Phantom_Hoover> that would be a fairly extreme commute 08:46:39 <Phantom_Hoover> although it would, i suppose, by mitigated by the en-suite library 08:47:13 <Taneb> Also there was a lecture theatre that was just in a corridor 08:48:54 <Taneb> Also I had a USB N64 controller I think 08:49:42 <Phantom_Hoover> i was having some kind of dream at some point but then the fire alarm went off at 4 in the morning 08:49:45 <Phantom_Hoover> it was not pleasant 08:51:15 <Taneb> Also when I went into your room you had IRC open on a computer so I messaged you from your account if I could borrow some of your books 08:52:26 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think i even have any books 08:52:33 <Phantom_Hoover> (maybe that is because they are in york) 08:52:36 <Taneb> You poor person 08:55:18 <Phantom_Hoover> i guess i have 3, in various states of read-ness 08:55:51 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:57:12 <Taneb> ...do you want to borrow some of mine? 08:57:52 <Phantom_Hoover> no, just put them in my library 08:59:30 <Taneb> :) 08:59:58 -!- tromp has joined. 09:02:04 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 09:33:27 -!- password2 has joined. 09:34:06 <mroman> why is this f*ing cell phone not accepting my f*ing sim card 09:34:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:42:08 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:42:37 <FireFly> is it the correct size? 09:44:36 <oerjan> size matters not. 09:45:48 <Taneb> Is it the wrong way round? 09:45:54 <Taneb> (I've made that mistake) 09:47:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:50:29 <int-e> is the phone vendor-locked? 09:50:37 <int-e> (or whatever they call that) 09:51:19 <oerjan> mroman: it's because it doesn't approve of your language hth 09:52:25 <oerjan> the ham packages i use to buy have recently started smelling weird after a few days, i have to throw out the last slices :/ 09:53:09 <oerjan> i think this one is on the brink. 09:56:10 <mroman> hm 09:56:13 <mroman> now it does work 09:56:24 <mroman> had to clean the goldy-shiny plate a little bit 09:56:58 <olsner> then the problem might have been that the bit that was supposed to be shiny was dirty 09:57:59 <mroman> lousy bit 09:58:19 <mroman> If its father were here it would hear something 10:14:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:17:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:17:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:25:36 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:28:07 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:29:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:35:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:35:50 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:39:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[AlPhAbEt]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39837&oldid=34520 * 146.52.215.210 * (+18) Updated homepage 10:40:44 -!- mhi^ has joined. 10:41:50 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:45:05 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:50:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39838&oldid=39835 * 92.20.254.163 * (+170) /* General Ideas */ 11:01:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:10:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 11:10:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:14:33 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:25:07 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:32:27 -!- skarn has joined. 11:32:51 -!- skarn has changed nick to Guest47376. 11:53:18 <password2> i should not have discovered that list of ideas 11:56:15 <oerjan> TOO LATE NOW 11:56:18 -!- Guest47376 has quit (Changing host). 11:56:19 -!- Guest47376 has joined. 11:56:25 <password2> OK 11:56:28 -!- Guest47376 has changed nick to skarn. 11:57:47 <oerjan> looking at http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User:David.werecat&diff=39799&oldid=36193 i'm wondering if we should have a policy that you _must_ be logged in to edit your user page. 12:07:28 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:09:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39839&oldid=39823 * Oerjan * (+0) wikifmt 12:11:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Insomnia]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39840&oldid=39828 * Oerjan * (+52) unsigned 12:12:34 -!- yorick has joined. 12:18:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Cheese]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39841&oldid=39794 * Oerjan * (+178) the spirit of unsigned 12:58:33 <mroman> password2: You have fallen prey . 13:00:03 <password2> yeah 13:00:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39842&oldid=39838 * 92.105.82.69 * (+77) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ 13:00:48 <mroman> hm. 13:01:18 <mroman> someone could make an esolang specifically designed for GPUs 13:01:55 <password2> i can has pixel? 13:02:05 <mroman> more like 13:02:07 <mroman> SIMD 13:02:11 <myname> cheese looks awesome 13:02:39 <elliott> mroman: Checkout. 13:03:21 <mroman> elliott: I'm sorry. I'm not git. 13:03:59 <mroman> Ah. 13:04:00 <mroman> The language 13:06:39 <int-e> password2: piet? hehe. 13:06:59 <password2> piet? 13:07:28 <int-e> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet ... it has pixels, that's why I thought of it. 13:08:59 <password2> oh yeah 13:09:15 <password2> it keeps confuzing me cas in my language Piet is a common name 13:09:38 <Taneb> Dutch? 13:11:47 <password2> afrikaans 13:12:05 <password2> but close enough 13:13:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:13:14 <mroman> nice :) 13:13:44 <oerjan> it's named after piet mondrian, naturally 13:14:09 <password2> ah 13:14:09 <oerjan> hm, nice hitler mustache 13:16:45 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 13:17:41 <oerjan> ooh dmm has recently added some clarifications to the language spec 13:18:17 <oerjan> also, wiki is slow. 13:20:36 -!- boily has joined. 13:23:03 <oerjan> hm or maybe just the note that there _are_ clarifications. 13:23:28 <Taneb> oerjan, something about stacks, something about numbers 13:24:04 <oerjan> oh they're unmarked? 13:24:08 <Taneb> Yeah 13:24:18 <oerjan> there's a big block about white blocks that's marked. 13:24:29 <oerjan> and older. 13:24:35 -!- Slereah has joined. 13:24:37 <Taneb> And divide, mod, and roll 13:25:24 <Taneb> Basically, ctrl-f for implementation-dependent 13:25:29 <oerjan> ic 13:26:17 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:26:51 <oerjan> except the stack one is missing the hyphen hth 13:27:31 <oerjan> also the number one 13:28:32 <Taneb> shush 13:29:04 <Taneb> OK, stacks, numbers, div, mod, roll 13:29:12 <Taneb> All to do with implementation dependent behaviour 13:30:57 <boily> still bancstarring? 13:31:21 <Taneb> What? 13:31:50 <oerjan> no, pietting 13:32:34 <mroman> BANCStar isn't actually as esoteric as it first seemed 13:32:51 <oerjan> well it's not intended to be, so... 13:33:02 <mroman> It's actually pretty sane and it was never meant to be used directly by humans :) 13:33:34 <boily> let me guess. some kind of bytecode that happens to be stored as decimal numbers? 13:34:02 <mroman> Yeah 13:34:17 <mroman> although later versions of BANCStar switched to a binary format 13:34:25 <mroman> making it really Bytecode 13:35:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UPGRADING CHICKEN). 13:36:42 <mroman> not more esoteric than programming on punch-hole cards 13:37:01 <mroman> although that probably holds for most esolangs :DD 13:38:00 -!- boily has joined. 13:39:27 <mroman> http://codepad.org/jYzLiEJ9 13:39:40 <mroman> I don't get why most assemblers actually require comma between arguments 13:50:17 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:39:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:12:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:17:00 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 15:24:27 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:41:39 <FireFly> Checkout looks interesting 16:02:17 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:11:24 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:13:07 -!- boily has joined. 16:15:42 -!- password2 has joined. 16:17:50 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:22:04 -!- Bike has joined. 16:23:05 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:34:05 -!- password2 has joined. 16:37:50 <zzo38> BANCStar certainly is look like it could be stored as binary with eight bytes per instruction, although, it isn't. 16:43:19 <FireFly> maybe that latter binary version is 16:43:20 <mroman> BANCStar 10 is 16:43:35 <FireFly> The question is whether the "empty" fields are actually 0, or something else 16:43:39 <FireFly> as in, 2999,,, 16:44:08 <FireFly> the LIST program seems to treat them as 0 16:44:33 <zzo38> FireFly: Yes, I was actually thinking the same thing. They are either zero or -32768, was my initial idea. 16:44:36 <zzo38> I still don't know. 16:45:06 <mroman> My CI told me that later versions of BANCStar used a binary format 16:45:48 <FireFly> CI? 16:45:58 <mroman> probably to stop them crazy folks from programming in it :D 16:46:28 <zzo38> BANCStar really look not quite that bad. 16:46:37 <mroman> `learn CI is a confidential informant 16:46:38 <zzo38> And you could have the text compiled into a binary format, too. 16:46:39 <HackEgo> I knew that. 16:47:04 <zzo38> It is not difficult if you know what the omitted values are. 16:47:27 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:55:00 <FireFly> <mroman> probably to stop them crazy folks from programming in it :D 16:55:05 <FireFly> probably won't help them much 16:55:29 <FireFly> since it's trivial to transform each to the other 16:57:44 <zzo38> FireFly: Yes, it is what I meant too 17:01:15 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:03:49 <zzo38> It is really unusual, but not quite that bad. 17:04:37 -!- password2 has joined. 17:04:57 <zzo38> But it is a bit bad, certainly 17:05:15 <zzo38> And it is much esoteric as the stuff mentioned in the prehistory of esoteric programming 17:11:22 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:23:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:24:20 -!- Bike has joined. 17:28:03 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:29:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:29:59 -!- vyv has joined. 17:31:51 -!- Bike has joined. 17:43:32 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:44:46 <fizzie> Say no to pets who smoke: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140614-no-smoking.jpg 17:45:42 <Taneb> :D 17:48:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:48:32 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:50:21 -!- Bike has joined. 18:02:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:13:47 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:13:58 -!- Bike has joined. 18:28:32 -!- MDude has joined. 18:34:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 18:52:34 -!- b_jonas has joined. 18:54:52 -!- ais523_ has joined. 18:59:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:37:08 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:38:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:38:45 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:39:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:41:32 -!- Bike has joined. 19:43:26 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 19:43:55 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: No route to host). 19:45:13 -!- fowl has quit (Quit: Derogatory terms for gynecomastia can include moobs (for male boobs) and bitch tits.[34]). 19:47:58 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 19:58:49 <elliott> @tell fowl it would be nice if your quit message didn't have "bitch" in it 19:58:50 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 20:22:57 <int-e> It's fowl language. 20:24:43 -!- shikhout has joined. 20:25:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:27:07 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 20:32:44 <mroman> @tell fowl also not boob or tits. 20:32:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 20:34:18 <mroman> FireFly: ... 20:34:35 <mroman> then explain why they didn't just design a higher level language and transform that to BANCStar 20:34:41 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:35:03 <mroman> even that sounds like less effort than what they did 20:36:03 -!- edwardk has joined. 20:36:42 <FireFly> I agree 20:36:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:37:26 <FireFly> Especially considering they bothered to make that LIST program for pretty-printing BANCStar to paper.. 20:39:37 -!- lollo64it has joined. 20:41:33 <b_jonas> mroman: well, LIST was probably needed to understand existing code, whether one that was written before tools, or ones from the screen generator 20:41:46 <b_jonas> LIST has probably helped in the reverse engineering 20:42:35 <b_jonas> I mean, when they understood part of the language only, they would run an older version of LIST understanding that part of the language on programs by the screen generator to understand more. 20:43:18 <b_jonas> but yes, I really don't understand why they bothered writing raw bancstar instead of translating to it 20:43:24 <b_jonas> at least in assembly level 20:44:12 -!- lorenzo_ has joined. 20:47:03 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:47:32 <diginet> has anyone here done any work with formal semantcs of programming languages? 20:48:07 <zzo38> b_jonas: It doesn't seem *too* difficult to write. 20:48:22 <zzo38> Although, a macro assembler probably would have been a good idea. 20:48:33 <zzo38> Since you can include comments and metaprogramming 20:48:42 <b_jonas> zzo38: exactly 20:48:46 <mroman> exactly. 20:48:49 <Bike> never saw a seme i didn't like 20:48:54 <b_jonas> zzo38: and they can start with an assembler that is compatible with the existing syntax 20:48:58 <mroman> maybe they did 20:49:04 <b_jonas> and incrementally increase it, first with comments, etc 20:49:11 <mroman> he mentioned they wrote _several_ development tools for it 20:49:17 <zzo38> Yes, I do think would be good having an assembler compatible with the existing syntax 20:49:44 <mroman> (but the NFCS wasn't interested in them) 20:49:58 <mroman> I haven't asked what tools exactly 20:50:55 <zzo38> Probably just an assembler which uses the existing syntax but also with macros, comments, and link to prompt file, and names of pages, is enough. 20:51:09 <mroman> well 20:51:20 <mroman> you could also easily replace numbers with mnemonics 20:51:23 <mroman> probably 20:51:33 <mroman> like arith or even add instead of 10000 ... 20:51:35 <zzo38> mroman: No, you can use macro to implement that 20:51:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: just alphabetic symbols for the variables, plus a syntax for multiplying those by 10 and adding a digit, would help first 20:51:54 <b_jonas> macros are extra 20:52:01 <b_jonas> so that, you know, you can actually name variables 20:52:09 <b_jonas> instead of just numbering them 20:52:16 <zzo38> I myself would prefer having macros instead though 20:52:23 <b_jonas> ah, that's what you're saying to link to prompt file 20:52:28 -!- lorenzo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:53:01 <zzo38> Yes, to link to variables and constants in the prompt file. 20:57:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:12:59 <zzo38> Do you know what values are supposed to be used for the sample numbers in the list of sample numbers for all notes in the instrument? 21:17:16 <zzo38> I assume to put zero 21:41:24 -!- conehead has joined. 21:47:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:59:16 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:00:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 22:03:08 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:03:24 -!- mhi^ has joined. 22:19:21 -!- not^v has quit (Excess Flood). 22:19:46 -!- not^v has joined. 22:22:41 -!- not^v has changed nick to ^0. 22:33:15 -!- conehead has joined. 22:41:01 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:47:10 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:47:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 22:47:55 -!- lollo64it has joined. 22:59:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:59:39 -!- conehead has joined. 23:04:45 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:23:01 -!- ^v has joined. 23:23:11 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 23:26:15 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 23:26:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:46:25 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:46:32 <zzo38> What is the radio fuzzy when I stand in a particular place? 23:51:21 <zzo38> Do you know if OpenMPT supports any DDE commands? 23:56:35 <oerjan> zzo38: try vacuuming the place so the dust doesn't collect on the radio hth 23:57:48 <oerjan> OpenMPT.Raii.Raii 23:58:01 <oerjan> (only norwegians will understand this pun) 23:58:34 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:45 -!- boily has joined. 2014-06-15: 00:00:18 <boily> good world cup morning. 00:00:37 <oerjan> hoily 00:01:55 <Sgeo> http://tagpro-origin.koalabeast.com/sounds/levelmusic1.mp3 00:01:58 <Sgeo> I love this music 00:03:06 <boily> have anyone watched the Italy England match? 00:03:23 <boily> hellørjan. 00:11:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:13:33 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:13:47 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:14:10 -!- aretecode has joined. 00:14:14 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:16:03 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 00:19:13 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 00:38:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:47:49 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:01:30 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 01:03:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:34:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:48:46 <zzo38> Do you know what the "Wxx" command means in FastTracker? (Wikipedia says it is a "custom sync event", but doesn't describe what that means. OpenMPT documentation does not mention it at all.) 01:59:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DRONING CHICKEN). 02:17:22 <FreeFull> zzo38: It'd be something that is used by the playback routine rather than being audible 02:17:52 <FreeFull> Could be used to sync graphics to the music, for example 02:21:52 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:22:44 -!- ^v has joined. 02:23:28 -!- shikhout has joined. 02:26:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:42:19 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 02:45:02 <zzo38> FreeFull: I thought probably it does something like that, but could find no documentation. 03:13:41 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:19:55 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 03:20:08 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:22:47 <Sgeo> Can someone wake me up when NodeJS 0.12 gets released? Thanks 03:24:52 <Bike> `nodejslist 03:24:53 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: nodejslist: not found 03:25:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:28:46 <zzo38> Sgeo: How do you want to be notified? Perhaps go on their IRC channel and get notified when the message about it is released? 03:28:56 <zzo38> I don't know when NodeJS 0.12 gets released. 03:39:21 -!- brandonsons has joined. 03:40:46 -!- brandonsons has quit (Client Quit). 03:41:04 -!- singingboyo has joined. 04:13:01 <zzo38> Could UNIMOD format be extended to allow samples to be OPL2 patches? 04:17:47 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:27:58 -!- special_K has joined. 04:28:20 -!- special_K has left. 05:04:29 <myname> is there some kind of fancy debugger for haskell? like "whenever you call that function, show me its input"? 05:04:42 <Bike> a trace? 05:04:57 <myname> may work 05:06:21 <myname> how do i get that 05:06:34 <Bike> @google Debug.Trace 05:06:35 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Debug-Trace.html 05:06:35 <lambdabot> Title: Debug.Trace 05:07:53 <Sgeo> Postmasters are actual real world entities, and not just used with email? 05:08:40 <Bike> sgeo you're american right. have you ever been west of the mississippi 05:08:52 <Sgeo> no 05:09:06 <Bike> half of everything here is named by some postmaster's whim 05:09:30 <Bike> like, i lived near a town called Moscow, and nobody knows why it's called that because the postmaster was just like "moscow" and that was that 05:11:53 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:21:37 <myname> that sounds like an awesome job 05:23:53 <Bike> well you only get to do that part once. 05:24:12 <myname> you may just change cities after you name them 05:47:15 <Sgeo> Apparently some people hate Ari Ne'eman 05:50:09 <Sgeo> http://arineeman.blogspot.com/ (note: blog seems to be heavily pseudoscientific) 05:50:48 <Sgeo> "Those of us experienced at curing autism know that all of these behaviors can be eliminated by removing the mercury from the brain that caused the brain to malfunction and produce these behaviors. Removing that mercury from the brain is the best way to eliminate the behavior and end the risk of children being harmed while in restraints." 05:53:13 <myname> wat 05:54:05 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 05:54:25 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:54:30 <Sgeo> This person seems to believe that Ari Ne'eman is an evil person preventing autistic people from being cured 05:55:15 <Bike> I wonder if there are actually higher rates of autism in places like Minamata. 05:56:54 <Bike> maybe they're too busy with the psychosis and birth defects to care, though 06:00:35 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 06:03:55 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:08:07 <kyhwana> Sgeo: why, you stop vaccinating people! duh. (lol mercury hasn't been used in vaccines for ages, etcetc). 06:08:30 <kyhwana> Of course, apparently the seafood/fish supply is racking up loads of mercury these days 06:20:23 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:20:35 -!- b_jonas has joined. 06:23:32 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:25:12 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:41:37 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:43:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:44:03 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:46:33 -!- aretecode has joined. 06:47:14 -!- aretecode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:50:33 -!- aretecode has joined. 06:51:19 -!- aretecode has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:53:28 <Sgeo> Oh hey it is about vaccines 06:53:44 <Sgeo> "Why do these psychopaths campaign against helping these children? It's simple. When we cure these children by removing mercury from their brains that was put there via vaccines, it proves that the vaccines caused the brain damage. This reflects poorly on our corrupt medical industry and our corrupt Congress who was bribed to ignore it. So, they hire liars like Ari Ne'eman and his pack of brainwashed idiots who claim they have autism and 06:53:44 <Sgeo> want respect instead of a cure. They present positive language about helping themselves and their own autism but they are NOT autistic at all. " 06:55:15 <Sgeo> Hmm. Suppose it is in fact mercury damage (BS) and suppose they're able to remove it (probably chelation therapy, which is BS in an autism context). How does that prove that it's the vaccines that caused the mercury, if, e.g., fish have it these days 07:04:15 <diginet> Sgeo: abandon hope, all ye who enter here 07:05:05 <Taneb> I am feeling somewhat down. 07:07:55 <Taneb> Partially because I am out of milk 07:08:07 <Taneb> But mostly the not-too-uncommon feeling like a failure. 08:07:17 -!- tromp has joined. 08:25:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:29:58 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:33:20 -!- conehead has joined. 09:07:00 -!- MSusw has joined. 09:10:38 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:10:46 -!- MDream has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:11:27 -!- heroux has joined. 09:30:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 09:33:42 -!- password2 has joined. 09:38:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:02:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:10:12 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: brb). 10:10:25 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:14:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:17:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:17:40 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:17:53 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:26:53 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:29:29 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:30:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:36:19 -!- impomatic has left. 10:36:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:38:25 -!- Bike has joined. 10:59:29 -!- edwardk has joined. 11:04:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:07:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:19:29 <FreeFull> https://github.com/alankila/Junk/tree/master/wav2png 11:19:40 <FreeFull> Apparently using PNG to compress audio is better than FLAC 11:21:42 <FreeFull> But only for specific cases 11:22:41 <Taneb> Now I am curious how JPEG would do 11:28:20 <Taneb> AND I AM INSUFFICIENTLY KNOWLEDGEABLE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THIS CURIOSITY 11:39:32 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:02:35 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:12:26 <FreeFull> Taneb: JPEG would be lossy, of course 12:12:35 <FreeFull> I suspect you'd get good compression but bad quality 12:14:13 -!- impomatic has joined. 12:22:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:22:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 12:31:56 -!- yorick has joined. 12:34:32 <Phantom__Hoover> jesus fuck the people in #archlinux are assholes 12:36:34 -!- boily has joined. 12:48:15 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, some of my best friends are in #archlinux! 12:48:43 <Phantom__Hoover> well tell them to get rid of the assholes! 12:50:15 <Taneb> Apparently they aren't 12:50:17 <Taneb> Huh 12:52:01 <FireFly> Yeah, I stopped idling there because it was too toxic for my taste 12:52:22 <boily> archlinux, toxic? since when? :P 12:52:47 <FireFly> Well I dunno, I didn't like the channel very much 12:54:09 <olsner> Phantom__Hoover: what sort of assholes? 12:54:27 <Taneb> olsner, ones you don't want to fuck with 12:55:16 <Phantom__Hoover> the kind of assholes who will remember bullshit reasons to mock you just to bring them up next time you go in for support 12:55:50 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, does Warwick have much of a CS society? 12:56:21 <Phantom__Hoover> probably? i've never been involved with them so i don't know 12:56:28 <Taneb> Alright 12:56:41 <Phantom__Hoover> i have friends who have gone to lan parties and shit so i guess 12:56:58 <Taneb> We have a CS society and a separate gaming society 12:57:05 <Taneb> And then a separate again gamedev society 12:57:37 <Phantom__Hoover> i think we have all of those, at least 12:57:44 <olsner> seems like using IRC for support tends to be quite bad in various ways 12:58:01 <Taneb> I am pretty sure I am the only person who is a member of all three 12:58:28 <Phantom__Hoover> olsner, it's still much faster than the alternatives, though 12:58:58 <Taneb> ...I'm using CS to stand for "Computer Science" and not "CounterStrike", btw 13:00:24 <Taneb> I am heading out now, bye! 13:03:20 <impomatic> Phantom__Hoover: is that Warwick, UK? 13:06:55 <Phantom__Hoover> yes 13:07:10 <Phantom__Hoover> or rather the university of warwick, uk 13:07:29 <Phantom__Hoover> the town of warwick is several miles away and has ~nothing to do with the university 13:10:44 <impomatic> My gf wants to visit the castle there. Hopefully I can convince her to go via Bletchley Park or the computer museum in Leicester. 13:12:30 * impomatic might drop by #archlinux especially to ask really dumb questions :-) 13:13:37 <Phantom__Hoover> is bletchley park near here? 13:20:07 <impomatic> About 50 miles. Not sure how easy it would be on public transport. 13:20:37 <impomatic> The National Museum of Computing is on Bletchley Park. It has a separate entry fee though... 13:21:51 <impomatic> I also want to visit Jim Austin's Computer Collection somewhere near York http://www.computermuseum.org.uk 13:21:59 * impomatic wonders if Taneb has been... 13:22:37 <Taneb> I have not 13:23:30 <impomatic> Looks interesting but it's by appointment only. 13:24:26 <Taneb> I think one of my friends was trying to organize an outing 14:21:43 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:23:47 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:27:43 -!- password2 has joined. 14:55:55 -!- MSusw has changed nick to MDude. 14:59:33 -!- boily has joined. 15:21:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:27:44 <fizzie> It was easy to get to Bletchley Park from London by train, at least. 15:37:43 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:06:13 <Phantom__Hoover> http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/70839/how-can-you-weigh-your-own-head-in-an-accurate-way 17:06:38 <Phantom__Hoover> so many ways 17:06:59 <Slereah> I'll go get the axe 17:07:17 <Phantom__Hoover> crude! 17:07:47 <Phantom__Hoover> why use an axe when you could compute the bulk density with high-energy gamma rays! 17:08:10 <Slereah> Well I'm not made of money 17:08:45 <Slereah> You can go the Archimedes route 17:08:49 <Slereah> Put your head in water 17:09:02 <Slereah> And then put a variety of material density with the same volume in water 17:09:12 <Slereah> Wait, no, that doesn't work 17:09:14 <Slereah> nevermind 17:10:31 <Phantom__Hoover> yeah 17:10:42 <Phantom__Hoover> you need the high-energy gamma rays to work out the density 17:15:01 <Bike> this is pretty good 17:16:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:21:01 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 18:19:05 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:38:29 -!- password2 has joined. 18:47:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:57:23 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:58:46 -!- mhi^ has joined. 19:02:21 -!- password2 has joined. 19:33:09 <Taneb> Taneb Fact: I have no idea if I have a bike pump 19:33:29 <Taneb> And my unicycle has a flat tyre! 19:34:27 <Quintopia> haha you can use the air pump at a gas station 19:34:34 <Quintopia> just be quick! 19:34:46 <Taneb> Hmm, I live near a petrol station 19:38:14 <fizzie> I have dozens of photos of meerkats now. :/ 19:39:07 <Taneb> fizzie, enough to advertise an insurance comparison website? 19:39:29 <fizzie> Are they used for that? 19:40:20 <Taneb> http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/ 19:40:52 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 19:43:31 <fizzie> I have 25+47, if that helps. 19:46:45 <fizzie> (Also lots of tigers and elephants, and one squirrel.) 19:46:48 <fizzie> (We went to a zoo.) 19:56:44 <FreeFull> http://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=7 20:21:47 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:23:30 -!- HackEgo has joined. 20:29:03 <Sgeo> "It is likely impossible to embody an AIXI in our universe, as AIXI is uncomputable. Fortunately, AIXI has a computable approximation AIXItl, which is merely infeasible:" 20:30:23 -!- ^0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:33:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:33:56 <Taneb> Help I've contributed to reviving a dead IRC channel 20:34:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:34:14 -!- ^v has joined. 20:35:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39843&oldid=39812 * GreyKnight * (+338) clarifying syntax 20:36:04 <impomatic> Taneb: is that #zombie? 20:36:21 <Taneb> No 20:36:40 <Taneb> It's a channel for UK university computer science societies 20:37:30 * impomatic wishes someone would revive FIG UK 20:37:33 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:37:36 <Taneb> FIG UK? 20:39:09 <impomatic> The UK Forth Interest Group 20:39:23 <Taneb> ooh 20:39:45 <pikhq> Taneb: All about British figs. 20:40:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39844&oldid=39843 * GreyKnight * (+70) prettify tables a bit 20:40:22 <Taneb> I should learn Forth at some point 20:40:40 <pikhq> It is glorious. 20:58:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:15 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:04:20 -!- conehead has joined. 21:14:25 <nortti> `unicode · 21:14:26 <HackEgo> U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT \ UTF-8: c2 b7 UTF-16BE: 00b7 Decimal: &#183; \ · \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 21:22:02 <kyhwana> hrm, anyone seen that Verizon report on the stratfor hack? 21:28:39 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:36:38 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:37:09 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:37:12 <Phantom__Hoover> no 21:38:07 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 21:41:25 -!- Melvar has joined. 21:41:26 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, help there's like people from your place on IRC 21:42:41 <Phantom__Hoover> what place 21:42:57 <Taneb> Both places! 21:42:59 <Taneb> Aaaah! 21:43:20 <Taneb> Edinburgh AND Warwick University! 21:43:25 <Phantom__Hoover> oh no 21:43:31 <Phantom__Hoover> do any of them know me 21:44:19 <Taneb> I don't think so 21:44:29 <Taneb> All of them are members of some university's CS society 21:44:42 <Taneb> Either Edinburgh Uni or Warwick University 21:44:55 <Phantom__Hoover> i don't know anyone who does cs at edinburgh 21:45:10 <Taneb> Do you WANT to? 21:46:07 <Phantom__Hoover> im ambivalent 21:46:15 <Taneb> And do you know many people who do CS at Warwick? (iirc you do maths?) 21:51:18 -!- idris-bot has joined. 21:54:17 <kyhwana> https://pdf.yt/d/yGrhyxVVK5yKmbcq is that verizon/stratfor report 21:58:29 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, it appears they do not 21:58:45 <Phantom__Hoover> oh 21:58:51 <Phantom__Hoover> yeah i have a few friends who do CS 22:01:30 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, yes, these Warwick chaps appear not to know you 22:01:50 <Phantom__Hoover> unsurprising, i do only have a few friends in CS 22:02:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 22:02:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:23:42 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to barruca2. 22:23:47 -!- barruca2 has changed nick to barrucadu. 22:28:08 <FireFly> `cat bin/unicode 22:28:08 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ # -*- encoding: utf-8 -*- \ import re \ import sys, os \ import unicodedata \ def l(c): m = re.match('(?:U[+])?([0-9a-f]{1,5})$', c, re.I); return unicodedata.lookup(c) if m is None else unichr(int(m.group(1),16)) \ try: \ print u''.join(map(l, sys.argv[1:])).encode('utf-8') \ except KeyError: \ os.execvp("multico 22:28:15 <FireFly> Oh, python huh 22:32:41 <Phantom__Hoover> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erq4TO_a3z8 22:33:04 <Phantom__Hoover> HOW CAN HE WAVE AROUND A LIVE PLUG LIKE THAT SO CALMLY 22:36:02 <int-e> because doing it nervously, erratically would be dangerous? (I have not looked) 22:37:36 <Phantom__Hoover> also the comments are even more full of assholes than usual 22:44:44 <Sgeo> What happens if the user isn't using a power strip 22:44:55 <Sgeo> And he mentions that 22:45:05 <Sgeo> ok, I should finish watching videos before commenting 22:45:44 <int-e> now do it with one of those: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko 22:45:56 <Phantom__Hoover> i like how people in the comments are jerking off to their fantasies of blowing an old man^W^W^WTHE FORCES OF TYRANNY up when he's just as likely to electrocute himself operating the thing 22:46:30 <int-e> I think he's more careful and aware of what he's doing than you give him credit for 22:46:31 <Phantom__Hoover> wouldn't work on UK plugs either, we have insulated sleeves on the prongs 22:46:51 <Sgeo> int-e: but if it's meant to be used by general police forces, they need as much training 22:46:56 <int-e> in particular, look how carefully and tightly he holds the live plug in the first half of the video. 22:47:13 <int-e> obviously this needs special training 22:48:34 <Phantom__Hoover> but when he disconnects the line from the hotplug he isn't nearly so careful, and it's still live 22:48:35 <Sgeo> Might be possible to write software to detect that mouse thing 22:49:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:50:10 <int-e> Sgeo: right. shut down on new USB device, unless the user has taken some action in advance. 22:50:41 <Sgeo> Was thinking 'what kind of mouse jiggles like that', but your way is probably easier and safer 22:50:42 <Phantom__Hoover> that's just security through obscurity though 22:51:08 <Phantom__Hoover> sure you can design around it but it's just an arms race 22:51:14 <Sgeo> Although, what happens if you accidentally disconnect your real mouse and keyboard 22:51:32 <int-e> tough luck, you shut down, reboot, re-enter your keys 22:52:29 <Phantom__Hoover> if you're anticipating the imminent physical seizure of your computer what are you even doing fucking around with mouse detectors 22:59:07 <Taneb> Friendship mouse? 22:59:21 <Phantom__Hoover> friendship mouse? 22:59:42 <Taneb> Man, friendship mouse was so long ago 22:59:51 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, don't you remember friendship mouse? 22:59:59 <Phantom__Hoover> i do remember friendship mouse 23:00:12 <Phantom__Hoover> i don't remember how long ago it was 23:07:26 <Taneb> ^celebrate 23:07:26 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 23:07:27 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 23:07:27 <myndzi> |\ c.c /< /| | | /'\ c.c /`\ | |\|/| c.c |\ 23:07:27 <myndzi> (_|¯'\ /´\ 23:07:27 <myndzi> |_) (_| |_) 23:10:12 <nooodl> c.c c.c c.c c.c 23:10:13 <myndzi> c.c.c c.c.c c.c.cc.c.c 23:10:13 <myndzi> c.c c.c c.c c.c 23:10:28 <int-e> Phantom__Hoover: I wonder whether it's possible to get the chord connecting to the power strip go off when unplugged from the strip. (There has to be some electronic inside the 'hotplug' device anyway, because you have to check that the phases from the UPS and the power supply are synchronized. measuring power drawn from the chord doesn't seem too add much then.) 23:10:32 <Quintopia> c.c.c.c 23:10:32 <myndzi> c.c.cc.c.c 23:10:33 <myndzi> c.c c.c 23:10:57 <int-e> Phantom__Hoover: and it would be a huge boon to safety when there's only one hot plug transfer in the whole process. 23:11:02 <oerjan> c.c.c.c \o/ 23:11:03 <myndzi> c.c.cc.c.c | 23:11:03 <myndzi> c.c c.c |\ 23:11:19 <Quintopia> c.c.c.c.c.c\o/ 23:11:19 <myndzi> c.c.cc.c.c 23:11:19 <myndzi> c.c c.c 23:11:27 <elliott> int-e: *cord, btw 23:11:39 <int-e> elliott: thanks 23:11:41 <elliott> unless it's musical power. 23:11:59 <Quintopia> or a segment connecting two points on a circle 23:12:00 <Phantom__Hoover> int-e, maybe 23:12:16 <Taneb> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2011-08-10 23:13:06 <Phantom__Hoover> almost 3 years ago 23:13:11 <Phantom__Hoover> wow 23:14:36 <Taneb> Wow indeed 23:14:59 <int-e> what am I looking at? 23:15:08 <Taneb> int-e, Ctrl-f for mouse 23:15:19 <Bike> this is some good stuff here 23:15:58 <Phantom__Hoover> the saga carried over to the next day, as i recall 23:16:17 <Bike> who cares about mice, i'm takling intidus! 23:16:59 <Taneb> Bike, you can do that for anything itidus has ever said 23:17:01 <Taneb> I miss itidus 23:17:59 <Quintopia> oh man, i missed the whole mouse discussion but i remember that: "<zzo38> In Hofstadter's book, Godel Escher Bach, the Lamp is made of copper, the Meta-Lamp is silver, the Meta-Meta-Lamp is gold, it does not say what the Meta-Meta-Meta-Lamp is made of, I can probably guess but what do you think?" 23:18:39 <Bike> the interesting thing is, in 2011 i was having the same stupid arguments 23:18:53 <Bike> isn't it platinum? 23:20:00 <Quintopia> taneb said platinum, Phantom__Hoover said platinum, zzo38 said roentgenium 23:20:13 <Bike> that's a good answer. 23:20:32 <Phantom__Hoover> in hindsight he was wiser than either of us 23:20:36 <Quintopia> i said the meta-meta-meta-meta-lamp was upsidaisium, but nowadays, i'd probably say gold-pressed latinum 23:21:14 <int-e> thanks so much. "AND THEN I CHECKED FOR IT" haha! 23:21:27 <Bike> huh, i didn't know copper and silver and gold were in the same group o_o 23:21:29 <Bike> fuckin metals 23:21:36 <oerjan> darn i was just looking up röntgenium 23:22:13 <Phantom__Hoover> i see our mouse talk also got rid of ais, another telltale sign of a classic #esoteric moment 23:22:47 <elliott> reading logs from when I was 15 is weird 23:22:57 <oerjan> did this happen before kmc arrived and started leaving 23:23:07 <Taneb> elliott, how has life carried you since? 23:23:29 <elliott> Taneb: um, there hasn't been all that much carrying, mostly I've walked places 23:23:37 <elliott> if anyone wants to carry me though I'm up for that 23:23:46 <Taneb> <Taneb> I like Unity <-- wow I've changed so much 23:23:46 <Bike> great, now i ned to know why VIIIB was three modern groups. 23:24:03 <int-e> aww. "22:39:54: <Phantom_Hoover> I caught it yesterday honestly get in the loop." 23:24:37 <Phantom__Hoover> good god i was 16 then 23:24:59 <Bike> HA i was older than you, and also not here 23:25:03 <oerjan> y'all kids grew up so fast 23:26:45 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: your lines developed a really free verse style in this log towards the end 23:27:02 <elliott> 22:36 especially 23:27:43 <Phantom__Hoover> i wonder if the cat found it again in the end 23:29:22 <Phantom__Hoover> i vividly remember trying to pin it down under that table 23:30:07 <int-e> it was quite an adventure, probably nice to look back after 5 years :) 23:30:21 <int-e> or 6 23:30:41 <Phantom__Hoover> or 3 23:30:46 <elliott> I believe the number you're looking for is 2014 - 2011, aka 3. 23:30:54 <Phantom__Hoover> i wonder what my family do when the cat brings mice in now 23:31:04 <elliott> I mostly feel intense embarrassment looking back three years :p 23:31:07 <Bike> eat em 23:31:26 <Phantom__Hoover> they'd have to catch them for that 23:31:37 <Bike> compelling new research suggests that elliott was at some point a kid; researchers disturbed and revolted 23:31:39 <Taneb> Phantom__Hoover, do you remember whether it was USB or PS/2? 23:31:58 <FireFly> elliott: I know exactly what you mean 23:32:19 <elliott> Bike: I still am, by many people's definition! 23:32:19 <Phantom__Hoover> Taneb, usb, it seemed pretty up-to-date 23:32:23 <Sgeo> Maybe I should read about Dialyzer. iiuc, it's a type system that instead of rejecting bad programs and some good ones, only ever rejects bad programs at the cost of letting more bad programs through 23:32:38 <Bike> elliott: compelling new research suggests that the present constitutes a point!! 23:32:44 <Taneb> ...I have just realised, I have no idea what sort of life any of you lead 23:32:51 <elliott> Bike: compelling new research suggests that you smell. 23:32:55 <Bike> Taneb: nonstop boozing 23:33:03 <Taneb> If I saw any of you in the street I would not recognize any of you 23:33:13 <Bike> elliott: how did you know? uncanny! 23:33:24 <Phantom__Hoover> to be fair we could only recognise you if you had a yorkshire pudding in your mouth 23:33:39 <Sgeo> "Dialyzer bases its analysis on the concept of success typings which allows for sound warnings (no false positives)." 23:34:13 <Bike> http://37.media.tumblr.com/770145c0e28dd57736f7c011d5bc8815/tumblr_n23an1c9M51r7tprao1_500.jpg here, taneb, have a reference photograph. surprising?? 23:34:22 <Phantom__Hoover> do you not want false positives and correct code 23:35:54 <Taneb> Bike, whoa, you are not a bike 23:36:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39845&oldid=39844 * Zzo38 * (+54) 23:36:22 <Sgeo> I can only assume that gas masks are a kind of bike. 23:36:25 <Bike> i'm actually just a wereman 23:37:33 <nooodl> Bike: every man is a wereman http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/were-#English 23:38:12 <Bike> >back-formation 23:38:49 <elliott> oerjan: can I kick anyone who writes a green line starting with a >? 23:39:08 <Bike> as if you need permission to kick me <3 23:39:13 <oerjan> elliott: you certainly may. 23:39:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 23:39:28 <oerjan> this is the kind of thing that needs nipping of buds 23:39:33 -!- elliott has kicked Bike ilu2. 23:39:37 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 23:39:48 <elliott> "nipping of buds" sounds kinda nsfw. 23:40:04 <oerjan> it was kinda intended to. 23:41:03 -!- Bike has joined. 23:43:10 * oerjan doesn't quite dare to add budding nipples to the topic. 23:52:07 <int-e> wise words. "the internet is not an air-tight bastion of complete, unwavering good advice" 23:52:32 <elliott> oerjan: so you're saying budding nipples are off-topic? 23:52:46 <elliott> I thought the only thing that was off-topic was esoteric programming languages. 23:53:13 <oerjan> int-e: indeed, there is a severe leakage of hot air involved 23:53:40 <oerjan> elliott: it's not off-topic for the stupidly brave hth 23:53:56 <zzo38> Esoteric programming languages is not off-topic, it is just that it isn't so often on-topic. Sometimes there is stuff to write about it, too. 23:58:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 2014-06-16: 00:08:48 -!- Icepy has joined. 00:09:38 <Icepy> Check out my newest language! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Pluso 00:10:17 <Icepy> How would you make a looping construct like the one in brainfuck in python? 00:11:18 <Icepy> hello? 00:12:07 <Bike> while loop probably 00:15:25 -!- Icepy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:19:44 <zzo38> Can you please be more specific? Are you trying to interpret the loop in brainfuck, or something else? 00:21:57 <Bike> they're gone 00:27:00 <Sgeo> "Let me explain rule number three. If the accumulator is 91, then set it to 32. If the accumulator is 33, set it to 65. You have to print the ASCII value instead of the decimal value 00:27:00 <Sgeo> " 00:27:06 <Sgeo> That's actually a 4th rule, isn't it? 00:27:43 <Sgeo> Also: accumulator starts at 65 00:27:47 <Sgeo> Pretty important to mentio 00:28:05 <Sgeo> Oh, I see, those explain bounds 00:28:49 <Sgeo> It's circular, I kind of like that 00:29:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:59 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:01:20 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:03:01 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:22:59 <Taneb> Goodnight 01:24:28 -!- constant has changed nick to function. 01:49:40 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:51:57 -!- gerard has joined. 01:56:15 <gerard> hi man, i m a beginer fan of esolangs 01:58:25 <gerard> has someone heard about a esoteric language oriented to deal with issues about triality? 01:59:28 <elliott> triality? 02:00:11 <gerard> yes, not triality of octonions exactly, in general 02:00:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:01:59 <gerard> something like a language with built-in "ternarized" operations 02:02:18 <Bike> ok but what 02:04:07 <gerard> ok, a language that accept 3 input and produce 3 output in a simmetrical way? 02:05:04 <Bike> Symmetrical? Like a Toffoli gate? 02:10:33 <gerard> very cool,yes, things like that, but 02:11:51 <gerard> if it serves a inspiration look this, http://vixra.org/abs/0911.0034 , in pages 51 there is a ternary square, in tthe 52 a ternary cube 02:12:03 <Bike> vixra.... 02:19:29 <gerard> ok, maybe this time i have not much success XD 02:20:56 <gerard> i accept that ternary issues are not very popular XD 02:21:40 <Bike> i don't read spanish and vixra is full of crap, is the thing 02:23:32 <gerard> yes the paper is in spanish, and vixra has "no good reputation", but i wanna to show the figures 02:23:57 <gerard> in case that they inspires something.... 02:25:06 <shachaf> copumpkin: whoa, you're not even in #-blah 02:25:13 <shachaf> no wonder you didn't see my message 02:25:17 <copumpkin> got sick of it :) 02:25:30 <shachaf> can't blame you 02:26:54 <gerard> ¿¿¿??? 02:27:54 <Bike> wait, is this arithmetic on a 3d analog of quaternions 02:28:09 <Bike> i'm pretty sure that's usually done as just a subgroupwhatever of quaternions 02:28:14 <Bike> and has nothing to do with toffoli gates 02:29:58 <gerard> yes, but i'm in search of thins about 3, in general, but i more things with ternaryproperties in symmetry 02:30:14 <gerard> thin->things 02:32:24 <Bike> but they're unrelated. you'd be better off learning lie groups or something. 02:33:20 <gerard> not necesary unrelated, yes and no 02:36:22 <gerard> that specific observation about Toffoli gate and 3-symmetry yes, but.... 02:37:35 <gerard> i'm looking for ways to google, in alternatives way about triality 02:38:25 <gerard> or if you know some paper related to the issue, triality mainly 02:39:17 <gerard> or issues in a ternary version, too 02:41:37 <gerard> i look for this, browsed wikipedia, google, arxiv and others 02:48:12 <gerard> .....XD 02:51:15 <gerard> well, also i'd like to post about a movement that has a little fame, right know, and if you know it, i wanna know your opinions 02:51:32 <gerard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KphWsnhZ4Ag 02:53:13 <gerard> a 50 minute documentary of a social alternative by an 97 year old enginer 02:57:37 <gerard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uou4DiutW5g 03:01:43 <gerard> : | ...... 03:02:36 <gerard> ok, i suppose i had some of "answer" this time 03:02:51 <gerard> bye 03:04:16 -!- gerard has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:09:02 -!- hanamichi has joined. 03:09:20 -!- hanamichi has quit (Client Quit). 03:37:30 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 03:57:52 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:05:01 <zzo38> Can we make up a quiz (on Internet Quiz Engine) relating to esoteric programming, the wiki, IRC, and the people on this IRC and what they are doing? 04:20:17 <Quintopia> if by "we" you mean "I", then I'm confident you can. 04:26:40 <zzo38> No, I mean to many people make such things together, including me too. 04:53:56 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:54:12 -!- kyhwana has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:01:45 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:01:47 -!- kyhwana has joined. 05:02:07 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:02:17 -!- lollo64it has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:02:42 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:02:52 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:03:17 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:07:11 -!- lollo64it has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:19:27 -!- lollo64it has joined. 05:29:26 <MDude> I'd think stuff about us personally might be better as a separate quiz from stuff that you could find out without hanging out on the IRC. 05:34:35 <zzo38> Maybe, but I mean only the stuff that is actually on the IRC and not stuff more personal than that. Also, stuff on the wiki and about esoteric programming, both in general and specific programming languages. 05:35:03 <zzo38> And even not only that; also thing like IRC bots and stuff used in here too. 05:35:52 <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine can keep track of up to 78 variables, so that should be more than enough if you want different scores for different things. 05:56:37 -!- FreeFull has quit. 05:57:01 <MDude> Fungot, produce an opinion on this quiz idea. 05:57:11 <MDude> Oh right. 05:57:24 <MDude> I ask fungot to weigh in on this quiz idea. 05:57:25 <fungot> MDude: so i started to look at the example cgi to specify that all .c and fnord will just do it for any implementation, like the borg. they have much too much homework. 06:26:49 <Sgeo> http://37.media.tumblr.com/62a5b20362709db5949c6add1f2fdfd6/tumblr_n70l5aXm0W1tp1rx8o1_1280.jpg 06:26:57 <Sgeo> Who is the Dr. Wondertainment image? 06:27:09 <Sgeo> Looks almost like King Boomi 06:27:18 <Sgeo> *Bumi 06:27:33 <shachaf> fungot: yo 06:27:34 <fungot> shachaf: well, yes and no. i've read the grammar... it is probably a o(log(n)) and anonymous closures with ( lambda ( a) ( b ( lambda ( x) 06:28:56 <Sgeo> "So remember, if you, your friends, your family, your pets, or your neighbors have walked into an infant black hole, have been scalded (or vaporized!) by a miniature supernova, have touched anti-matter (or matter if you are composed of the opposite!), or any other space-themed accidents*, do not ask for a refund!" 06:29:02 <Sgeo> "*This includes mosquitoes" 06:38:02 <shachaf> Sgeo: why did you quote that 06:38:02 <shachaf> is it humor value: the absurdity of asking for a refund in a situation like that 06:39:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:39:35 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:39:41 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest82745. 06:40:41 -!- Guest82745 has changed nick to shikhout. 06:40:45 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 06:40:45 -!- shikhout has joined. 06:40:59 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 06:41:15 <Sgeo> I may have thought the mosquito bit was also amusing 06:41:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:43:34 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:46:53 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 06:49:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:00:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 07:12:28 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:13:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 07:32:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:37:33 -!- brandonsons has joined. 07:39:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:39:48 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:42:55 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:53:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:56:26 -!- aloril has joined. 08:09:54 -!- slereah_ has joined. 08:09:56 <slereah_> Hello 08:10:20 <slereah_> I am having some work troubles with semaphores, and I am wondering if I am using even the correct thing 08:10:39 <slereah_> Basically I want a thread to wait until n threads are done to continue, is that the right thing to use 08:10:45 <slereah_> like semaphore.h 08:10:53 <slereah_> Can't seem to get it to work 08:13:46 <olsner> a semaphore can be used as a mutex that allows up to n threads to hold the lock, but I don't think you can make a barrier with one 08:14:00 <slereah_> Dang 08:14:05 <slereah_> What should I use? 08:15:10 <olsner> or hmm, if you start a semaphore at -n+1, then n threads can release it to get it to 1, then one thread can acquire it 08:15:39 <slereah_> Well that was my first thought 08:15:44 <slereah_> And it didn't work 08:15:54 <slereah_> Then I noticed that the semaphore value was unsigned int 08:16:58 <olsner> looks like there is a pthread_barrier 08:17:29 <slereah_> To the coral pthread barrier! 08:18:09 <slereah_> (also thx) 08:24:12 <Taneb> Good mooooorning 08:24:29 <slereah_> hey hey 08:25:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BANCStar]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39846 * GreyKnight * (+475) Created page with "== updating LIST == I was trying to update jloughry's LIST program to compile on a modern Unix. I got some distance but the DOS code layered in everywhere is too much of a he..." 08:32:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39847&oldid=39839 * GreyKnight * (+92) categorise 08:36:20 -!- peacetech0 has joined. 08:44:02 <slereah_> Aw yes, got the synchronization to work B3 08:46:12 -!- brandonsons has left ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"). 08:46:36 -!- brandonson has joined. 08:50:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:52:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pluso]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39848&oldid=39847 * GreyKnight * (+236) equivalent but less confusing formulation 08:56:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:57:40 <b_jonas> BANCStar seems a great language to parodize 09:05:23 <slereah_> Hm 09:05:43 <slereah_> Barriers seemed pretty great when there was two threads but anything more and it seems to block at random 09:05:47 <slereah_> I don't know whyyy 09:18:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:18:33 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:28:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:30:04 -!- Bike has joined. 09:39:24 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 09:41:43 -!- boily has joined. 09:51:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:55:20 <peacetech0> oh 09:55:25 <peacetech0> this is a programming channel 09:56:34 <elliott> no. 09:56:39 <elliott> this is a channel about mysticism 09:56:45 <elliott> those people are just off-topic. 09:56:52 <peacetech0> ahh 09:56:57 <elliott> unfortunately they've overrun the place and we can't get rid of them. 09:57:03 <elliott> sorry for the bother 09:57:14 <peacetech0> oh, it's no problem 09:57:29 <slereah_> So are you seeking ultimate power 09:57:37 * slereah_ puts on his SICP wizard clothes 09:58:02 <slereah_> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/cover.jpg 09:58:06 <slereah_> Best cover 10:04:46 <boily> peacetech0: have you visited the Glorious Wiki? taken a peek at the Shiny PDF? 10:07:24 <peacetech0> haha elliott 10:07:45 <slereah_> Hm 10:07:47 <peacetech0> still laughing at that :') 10:07:56 <slereah_> All that multithreading only got my thing twice as fast 10:08:01 <slereah_> I was expecting more gain 10:08:36 <slereah_> Maybe I should rewrite it a bit cleaner, but rewriting is a scary prospect 10:08:54 <slereah_> Fraught with maybe breaking it 10:11:10 <boily> can't you write another thing while the first thing is still thinging? 10:11:28 <slereah_> Perhaps! 10:11:43 <slereah_> But first, let's try multithreading the third and final ressource heavy function 10:12:53 <slereah_> and then I guess tightening the code a bit 10:19:19 -!- peacetech0 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:46:49 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:47:32 -!- HackEgo has joined. 10:59:51 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FEATHERY CHICKEN). 11:05:12 <mroman> I thought this was an channel about esoteric stuff 11:05:15 <mroman> like heal stones 11:05:20 <mroman> or reincarnation 11:05:23 <mroman> or flying pigs. 11:05:41 <mroman> one of those three is real . 11:08:16 <mroman> *a channel 11:09:00 <Sgeo> Pigs on a plane? 11:11:21 <b_jonas> mroman: I thought we had something about that in the channel topic, but it seems no 11:14:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:18:23 * oerjan looks at gerard's ternary questions. 11:19:07 <oerjan> we tried to publish a paper about a ternary operation once, but it got rejected for not being interesting enough so we just dropped the attempt. 11:20:44 <KingOfKarlsruhe> then make it interesting 11:21:22 <oerjan> well that was just before i dropped out of research, so... 11:35:08 <mroman> Sgeo: Could make a nice horror movie 11:39:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BANCStar]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39849&oldid=39846 * GreyKnight * (+380) /* updating LIST */ 11:45:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:47:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:49:42 <Taneb> Anyone know why I might be able to ssh into a server but can't ssh out of it? 11:49:57 <Taneb> "server" (it's my desktop in my bedroom) 11:54:21 <int-e> Ideas: DNS misconfigured, some NAT thingy on the way. Oh and does the target have an ssh server running? 11:55:41 <int-e> oh and this is perhaps the most ridiculous idea of all: no ssh client on the server. 11:56:40 <Taneb> Can confirm it is not the last two 11:56:48 <Taneb> May be part of wider network issues 11:57:41 <Taneb> Or perhaps motherboard issues, the headphones aren't working either 11:57:54 <int-e> huh 11:58:02 <mroman> Taneb: iptables 11:58:36 <int-e> if you can ssh in then that should rule out problems on the physical layer 11:59:06 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:59:45 <Taneb> I can currently ssh in well enough to play Dwarf Fortress from 2 miles away 12:04:50 -!- yorick has joined. 12:09:29 <mroman> I'm still guessing firewall :) 12:12:04 -!- aloril has joined. 12:22:01 <slereah_> What's the linux thing to look at the time spent in each function? 12:22:04 <slereah_> I forget the name 12:22:10 <slereah_> prof-something? 12:22:21 <slereah_> ah, gprof 12:37:02 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:37:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:52:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:58:50 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:00:10 <Taneb> Just had my face scanned FOR SCIENCE 13:01:02 <coppro> for actual science? or for fake science? 13:01:10 <Taneb> Actual science 13:01:18 <Taneb> One of my lecturers does research in computer vision 13:03:14 <Taneb> http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/looks-familiar/304488.article I think 13:18:22 <int-e> with some luck your face will be as famous as the opengl teapot. 13:18:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:35:42 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:37:56 <mroman> Does esoteric science count as fake science? 13:39:33 <coppro> yes 13:45:53 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:48:50 <mroman> hm 13:48:56 <mroman> If you know two pairs of inverses 13:49:10 <mroman> you can reconstruct mod which number they are inverses 13:55:19 <nooodl> not really. 3*15=1 and 5*9=1 holds both mod 22 and mod 44 13:55:57 <nooodl> (i don't know how i ended up giving THAT as an example) 13:57:22 <int-e> also mod 1, 2, 4 or 11 13:57:45 <nooodl> i guess it works mod primes? 13:58:17 <int-e> unlikely 13:58:20 <mroman> Ok, not uniquely in every case 13:58:39 <mroman> but I also would have thought at least mod primes 13:59:52 <nooodl> wait, obviously not 13:59:59 <nooodl> because both 2 and 11 are in that list! 14:00:34 <mroman> hm 14:00:38 <mroman> If a*b and c*d are inverses 14:00:40 <Taneb> And the rest are all of form 2^n * 11^m 14:00:54 <mroman> the gcd(a*b-1,c*d-1) should gives you the mod part 14:01:10 <mroman> not uniquely though 14:01:51 <mroman> but it's probably more likley that allCommonFactorsOf(a*b-1,c*d-1) work? 14:02:08 <mroman> or factors(gcd(a*b-1,c*d-1))? 14:02:45 <mroman> I think if y = x mod p 14:02:57 <mroman> then y = x mod factors(p)? 14:03:38 <int-e> I guess if you are given 1 < a,b < p with a*b = 1 (mod p) then that is enough to reconstruct p. 14:18:42 -!- mihow has joined. 14:20:02 <Quintopia> int-e: for p prime? 14:23:36 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:24:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:26:16 <mroman> a*b = 1 (mod m) kinda means that neither a nor b is a factor of m? 14:26:40 <mroman> or something like that 14:26:47 <Quintopia> yes 14:26:59 <Quintopia> although it's a more strict condition than that 14:28:15 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:34:40 <mroman> hm? 14:35:43 <int-e> Quintopia: yes 14:35:53 <int-e> Quintopia: (that is, yes, for p prime) 14:36:40 <int-e> mroman: a and b are multipicative inverses of each other, modulo m 14:37:53 <slereah_> Does replacing loops over array indices by loops over pointers improve the performance of code? 14:38:00 <slereah_> Or does the compiler not give a shit 14:38:39 <oerjan> mroman: a*b = 1 (mod m) means that m is a factor of a*b - 1, neither more nor less. 14:41:21 -!- aloril has joined. 14:43:38 <Quintopia> slereah_: in C, there is no difference between array index addressing and pointers 14:43:51 <slereah_> Yes, but I mean 14:43:54 <Quintopia> (behind the scenes, it's the same code) 14:44:06 <slereah_> Making the loop for(i=0;i<n;i++) 14:44:23 <slereah_> Or for(ptr=array;ptr<array+n;ptr++) 14:44:41 <Quintopia> ah well 14:44:51 <Quintopia> it depends on your optimizer i guess 14:44:59 <Quintopia> a good one would make them the same thing 14:45:00 <slereah_> gcc with -O3 14:45:03 <slereah_> Hm 14:45:15 <slereah_> I guess I'm out of optimizing ideas 14:45:20 <slereah_> Short of unrolling loops 14:45:25 <Quintopia> in any case, the difference is at most one instruction, so pick whichever makes for the cleanest code 14:45:41 <slereah_> Or using the GPU 14:52:21 <mroman> slereah_: what does your loop do? 14:52:52 <mroman> is it a 1D or a 2D array? 14:52:52 <slereah_> Backpropagation stuff 14:53:52 <slereah_> It sums over another array, does math things to the result, and save it to some array 14:54:01 <mroman> does it contain conditions that are rarely met? 14:54:27 <slereah_> Depends on the size of the neural net 14:54:31 <mroman> if it's large enough you could use openmp and do a sum reduction 14:54:58 <slereah_> Usually it is ~ 3000 neurons 14:55:40 <slereah_> Divided among 8 threads, so about 400 per loop 14:56:23 <mroman> Have you checked for false sharing effects? 14:56:46 <slereah_> I do not know what that is 14:57:10 <mroman> If you distribute stuff to multiple threads but those threads access same memory regions 14:57:13 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:24 <mroman> it won't work really fast. 14:57:25 <slereah_> Nah, it's all independant 14:57:49 <mroman> because after each write to memory the CPU will need to do cache writebacks and stuff 14:58:10 <mroman> (if the data is shared) 14:59:52 <mroman> well... 14:59:55 <mroman> then I'm out of ideas too 15:00:03 <mroman> without seeing the actual code 15:00:26 -!- erdic has joined. 15:00:40 <mroman> if you have some conditions if(foo) where foo is only in very rare cases true you could advise gcc with branch prediction stuff 15:01:02 <mroman> (or in only very rare cases false) 15:03:13 <mroman> calculating the sum of an array on a GPU is weird btw ;) 15:06:38 <slereah_> mroman : I dunno 15:06:43 <slereah_> Trying to make shit go faster 15:07:22 <slereah_> Also the program stops working when I give it too much data D: 15:09:14 <slereah_> Apparently I have a lot of possibly lost memory during the thread creation 15:11:15 <mroman> depending on the structure of your program there's also data speculation or control flow speculation you could do 15:11:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Zzo38]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39850&oldid=34413 * GreyKnight * (+243) /* Esoteric Programming quiz */ new section 15:11:59 <coppro> q/win 15 15:22:28 -!- conehead has joined. 15:29:19 <slereah_> Ah, there's the error 15:29:25 <slereah_> At some point the thread creation fails D: 15:31:41 -!- password2 has joined. 15:34:15 <Taneb> `pastequotes taneb 15:34:17 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.6358 15:34:24 <slereah_> Insufficient resources to create another thread, apparently 15:34:25 <slereah_> Damn 15:41:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:41:26 <mroman> are you spawning too many threads? 15:42:04 <slereah_> As far as I know, I close down all threads after they're done 15:42:08 <slereah_> But it's hard to check 15:42:19 <slereah_> Could be a memory leak, since I can't check it with valgrind currentlu 15:42:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:42:57 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:43:14 <slereah_> Is there a tool to check for how many pthreads you have in your program 15:43:24 <mroman> htop? 15:43:32 <mroman> unix threads are just processes I thought 15:43:59 <slereah_> Ah, valgrind has a special thing for threads apparently 15:44:01 <slereah_> HELGRIND 15:51:18 -!- augur has joined. 15:51:56 -!- slereah_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:54:04 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 16:17:15 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:27:28 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:29:06 <zzo38> Someone made this ten-question quiz of esoteric programming languages: gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/1quiz.run*eSMi0614. The question about when Feather is made is really strange! 16:32:28 <mroman> is made? 16:32:31 <mroman> like... future? 16:32:48 <mroman> and why the hell are you seriously posting a gopher link . 16:33:53 <mroman> FF can't even talk gopher 16:34:05 <int-e> 3 Unterminated filename [eSMi0614] 16:34:12 <int-e> lynx can 16:34:28 <int-e> I hear that there's a plugin for FF. 16:35:04 <int-e> oh, of course the . is part of the link. 16:36:09 <mroman> haha 16:36:15 <mroman> reminds me of the xkcd comic 16:36:23 <mroman> how to embed emoticons in paratheses 16:36:36 <mroman> (Hi there :) or (Hi there :)) 16:36:49 <mroman> how to embed punctuation in urls 16:36:53 <FreeFull> (Hi there (: ) 16:37:57 <int-e> 4/10, about what I expected. 16:38:41 <FreeFull> I amm really bad 16:38:43 <FreeFull> I got 4/10 too 16:39:02 <int-e> I don't get this question, "What is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs?" 16:39:18 <FreeFull> I think I only got the obvious ones 16:40:23 <mroman> I don't speak gopher 16:40:30 <mroman> I don't support gopher 16:40:31 <mroman> :) 16:40:40 <int-e> get a gopher client 16:40:45 <mroman> Foolish old technology 16:40:51 <int-e> it works 16:41:00 <Taneb> int-e, brainfuck 16:41:15 <Taneb> The family of terrible esolangs is the brainfuck derivatives 16:41:16 <int-e> Taneb: I don't *understand* the question. 16:41:23 <int-e> Oh. 16:41:26 <int-e> Bad pun. Thanks. 16:42:09 <mroman> Taneb: Thanks. 16:42:18 <mroman> You've just insulted one of my esolangs 16:42:34 <mroman> (I don't like them either) 16:42:48 <Taneb> Hmm, I do not have a gopher client 16:43:48 <FreeFull> I use firefox with overbite 16:44:57 <b_jonas> there are other terrible and uninspired esolangs besides brainfuck derivatives 16:45:38 <Taneb> Yeah, like half of mine 16:46:01 <FreeFull> Broficiency Quotient -125 16:52:20 <mroman> The quality of an esolang is determined by how much it's isomorphic to brainfuck . 16:56:52 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:57:05 <FireFly> I thought that was a boolean property 16:57:44 <FireFly> Okay, overbite installed 16:57:54 <mroman> No :) 16:58:04 <mroman> Well... 16:58:07 <mroman> yes 16:58:13 <mroman> but not the way I meant it 16:58:15 <FireFly> Is there anything apart from zzo's site that's accessible only over gopher and interesting? 16:58:19 <mroman> how "similar" it is 16:58:37 <mroman> i.e. how easy it is to write a transpiler from/to brainfuck 16:58:50 <mroman> if it's too easy the language is boring 17:00:56 <FireFly> Huh 17:02:09 <zzo38> It is correct the . is part of the URL 17:03:00 <FireFly> oops.. 3/10 17:03:23 <mroman> And once I publish my esolang generator 17:03:30 <mroman> the wiki will be flooded with new esolangs :) 17:04:08 <zzo38> Is not difficult to write gopher client; the format is really easy. If you have a compatible version of Windows, you may use Visgopher. 17:04:46 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:05:02 <mroman> it even spills out an interpreter for it 17:05:16 <zzo38> I got 9/10 on the esolang quiz. Afterward I checked the source file and found that the question about Feather is the one I answered incorrectly (it is unclear what they want). 17:07:50 <FireFly> What was the answer on the not-predominantly-made-of-integers question? 17:08:37 <zzo38> After answering all the questions you can go back and view the source and see what all the correct answers are. 17:09:20 <mroman> It'd be fun if esolangs came at the final exam tomorrow 17:09:41 <mroman> but they just teached conventional languages 17:09:55 <mroman> but honestly 17:09:55 <nooodl> brainfuck plus a constant surely?? 17:10:08 <nooodl> re: the worst joke in the observable universe up there 17:10:22 <mroman> I expect a computer scientist to be able to write at least a programm that adds two numbers together just by reading the brainfuck spec 17:10:41 <mroman> but I'm pretty sure if any lecturer did that there'd be a real shitstorm coming 17:11:02 <mroman> "you didn't teach this!!!11" 17:12:30 -!- password2 has joined. 17:14:22 <FireFly> mroman: what did it teach? 17:14:23 <nooodl> hey adding numbers together is hard!! (if you use ascii.) 17:14:45 <mroman> FireFly: I don't really remember 17:14:46 <mroman> I think 17:14:47 <mroman> uhm. 17:14:49 <mroman> Fortran, Lisp 17:14:55 <mroman> Smalltalk, Modula-2 17:14:59 <mroman> Python3 17:15:16 <mroman> maybe some Algol and Pascal too 17:15:29 <FireFly> ! 17:15:35 <FireFly> Sounds like a fun course 17:15:42 <mroman> Yeah... not really :) 17:15:51 <FireFly> to me anyway.. 17:15:58 <FireFly> well, maybe not the python3, that sounds boring 17:16:14 <mroman> with an excursus into functional programming 17:16:22 <nooodl> fortran... 17:16:47 <mroman> nothing special of course 17:16:53 <FireFly> we had a course where we learned prolog, haskell and c 17:16:58 <mroman> oh 17:16:59 <mroman> yeah 17:17:00 <mroman> Prolog 17:17:04 <mroman> we had that too 17:17:20 <mroman> that's the only interesting part of the whole course 17:17:37 <FireFly> I dunno, lisp sounds fun to me 17:17:40 <FireFly> smalltalk too 17:17:48 <mroman> I already knew Lisp 17:17:55 <mroman> and Smalltalk is more PITA than anything else 17:17:56 <FireFly> fortran, modula2 and algol moreso from a historical perspective 17:19:16 <mroman> yes 17:20:00 <mroman> that may be fun for someone who doesn't already know a lot of languages 17:20:37 <zzo38> I happen to like Forth 17:20:57 <mroman> I don't get why they didn't teach at least one stack based language 17:21:03 <mroman> but like 4 or 5 imperative ones 17:22:00 <mroman> oh 17:22:04 <mroman> java bytecode was also on the list 17:22:04 -!- lollo64it has joined. 17:22:31 <mroman> so many I don't even remember :D 17:22:53 <FireFly> Yeah, they could've tried to cover more paradigms 17:23:15 <FireFly> skip pascal and maybe algol, add forth and an array language 17:23:23 <mroman> I guess they'll focus lisp, prolog and python3 tomorrow 17:23:28 <FireFly> or s/forth/another concatenative language/ if you prefer 17:26:18 <FireFly> I disagree with Q5 in the quiz 17:27:08 <FireFly> I think 17:29:14 <mroman> I only prepared for the crypto final exam on thursday 17:29:50 <mroman> and that roughly means I programmed a lot of programs in TI Basic 17:30:11 <mroman> that print everything including the approach on how to get the solution etc. 17:30:28 <mroman> I basically just have to copy the stuff on the calculator display onto paper 17:31:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:31:41 <zzo38> Are you allowed to use programs that have previously been written on that exam? I think what they had in some exams I did is a rule that you are not allowed to access programs which were written before the exam. 17:32:20 <mroman> Did they check timestamps or what? 17:33:29 <mroman> but I don't know @allowed 17:33:35 <mroman> I just assume I am until they say otherwise 17:33:45 <mroman> the lecturer said you can use a calculator 17:33:51 <mroman> you have to write down the solution step by step 17:33:57 <mroman> except for calculating inverses 17:34:14 <mroman> i.e. you can write 3^-1 mod p = .... without having to do the euclidean thing 17:35:29 <zzo38> As far as I know they didn't usually actually check. 17:36:27 <zzo38> They did sometimes tell you to put the cover from the calculator onto the floor so that you cannot read what is written on it, and to reset the memory in the calculator (and suggest you make backups if you have any files you want saved). 17:36:42 <Phantom_Hoover> oh christ 17:36:49 <Phantom_Hoover> earlier today i went into a physics exam without a calculator 17:36:54 <Phantom_Hoover> it was a bad move 17:37:41 <mroman> If you can program it you know how it works anyway 17:38:56 <mroman> Seeing as a program is just a step-by-step description 17:39:14 <mroman> You're also allowed to bring the script with you 17:39:20 <mroman> which contains a step-by-step instruction too 17:39:22 <mroman> so... 17:39:49 <mroman> it'd be like saying "You can bring 14 pages with your own notes" 17:39:54 <zzo38> I know, that if you can program it you know how it works anyways. 17:40:00 <mroman> rather than saying "you may bring the book with you" 17:40:07 <mroman> if I can bring 14 pages I can also bring the book 17:40:17 <mroman> the only difference is I don't have to small print the book onto 14 pages 17:40:27 <zzo38> If you are allowed to bring your own notes, then yes you should definitely also be allowed to program the calculator ahead of time too. 17:41:07 <mroman> heck you can even bring final exams with solutions from last semester 17:41:20 <mroman> hoping they just change some numbers or constants 17:41:42 <zzo38> Then that can be good as examples, at least, even if that isn't all they change. 17:42:10 <mroman> yeah 17:42:11 <mroman> but 17:42:20 <mroman> "Prove that this thing here is a carmichael number" 17:42:29 <mroman> the only thing they can change IS the number ;) 17:43:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:43:07 <zzo38> I don't know what a carmichael number is, so I don't know if the method of proof can be changed too 17:43:24 <mroman> a carmichael number is square free 17:43:39 <mroman> and for every prime factor p of n, p-1 divides n-1 17:43:42 <mroman> there you go 17:44:02 <mroman> you tell your calculator to factorize it, check if a factor occurs twice 17:44:12 <mroman> then check forall p if p-1 mod n-1 is 0 17:44:18 <mroman> of course, I have a program for that :) 17:44:49 <mroman> eh 17:44:51 <mroman> vice verso 17:44:55 <mroman> n-1 mod p-1 17:46:06 <mroman> Carmichael numbers are those sneaky numbers where the fermat primality test sucks at 17:46:41 <zzo38> I remember once I had an exam where the rule was you were allowed to bring your own notes, but they have to fit on one side of a index card that you can read without using any special equipment, and it has to be hand-written. 17:47:25 <mroman> sounds like a challenge of who can write the smallest 17:47:45 <nortti> I like the addition "you can read without using any special equipment" 17:48:13 <mroman> also that's unfair to people who can't read small stuff . 17:48:21 <mroman> or write small stuff . 17:48:23 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:48:44 <nortti> or who whose habdwriting becomes hard to read when small 17:48:45 <mroman> and possibly for people like me who are too lazy to bother even using an index card . 17:49:14 <mroman> I remember showing up to some open book final exams without a book 17:50:07 <mroman> and when I got asked why I replied "Well, if I can't do it without a book I suck and don't deserve to pass anyway" 17:50:48 <mroman> how big is an index card actually? 17:51:19 <mroman> 7cm x 12cm 17:51:21 <mroman> roughly 17:54:00 <mroman> I think for the exam tomorrow I've printed out like 300 A4 pages 17:54:05 <mroman> (one-sided) 17:54:16 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:55:55 <zzo38> Yes I think it is 7cm x 12cm; I do not quite remember 17:56:38 <FireFly> zzo38: is a pair of glasses "special equipment"? 17:56:44 <mroman> for all the final exams probably around 1k A4 pages 17:56:52 <mroman> (final exams this semester) 17:57:10 <zzo38> I think glasses you normally wear is OK, but not magnifying glass and microscope and camera and stuff like that 17:57:12 <mroman> all for nothing. those poor trees :( 17:58:14 <FireFly> Well, why didn't you print on both sides? 17:58:30 <FireFly> and also scaled down to A5 to fit four pages per sheet 17:58:31 <mroman> I don't know how to do that 17:58:35 <zzo38> Paper can be reused and recycled, and trees can be replanted. I prefer to reuse before to recycle, so sometimes when I want to write on a spare paper I will get some that someone has put in the recycling, or write on the other side (or possibly even the printed side) of something I have previously printed from the computer. 17:58:42 <mroman> And those are 4 pages per page 17:58:53 <mroman> sometimes even more than 4 17:58:58 <FireFly> Ah, okay 17:59:41 <mroman> otherwise it would be 5 times as expensive to print out 18:01:09 <FireFly> <mroman> I remember showing up to some open book final exams without a book ← I've done that too, but mostly because I didn't bother to buy the book in the first place 18:01:44 <mroman> usually printing out the slides of the lecturer is enough 18:02:04 <mroman> after the first year you know that buying the book is just expensive as shit and doesn't really help you at the exams anyway 18:02:07 <Taneb> The only open book exam I've done, the book was "Python 2's documentation" 18:02:18 <zzo38> If you have your own copy of a book, is it OK to add your own writing into the book too? 18:03:39 <mroman> zzo38: yeah 18:03:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:03:54 <mroman> open book here means "bring whatever you want that's not electronics" 18:04:12 <mroman> i.e. you can bring as much as you can carry ;) 18:04:27 <mroman> you could bring your favorite fantasy book and read it during the exam 18:04:33 <mroman> I actually considered that 18:04:45 <mroman> some lecturers have this sucky policy that you can't leave before 90 minutes 18:04:55 <mroman> it's really boring just sitting there for 45 minutes 18:05:26 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:06:00 <FireFly> All of our exams have some standardised time until you can leave 18:06:08 <FireFly> I think it's one hour 18:06:16 <mroman> yeah. but why? 18:06:33 <FireFly> Because you're also allowed begin writing if you're up to 55 minutes late 18:06:43 <mroman> ah 18:06:44 <mroman> ok 18:06:51 <FireFly> but they can't let anyone in to begin writing once somebody has left the room, since they could've gotten answers from the other guy then 18:06:52 <mroman> we don't hav that @lat 18:06:52 <coppro> same here 18:06:57 <mroman> but you still cant leave early sometimes 18:07:00 <mroman> *late 18:07:02 -!- vyv has joined. 18:07:21 <coppro> you also can't leave in the last 10 minutes, to avoid a flood of students leaving and distracting those who are madly scrambling to get as much down as they can 18:09:38 <Melvar> That last is the rule here as well. 18:10:21 <FireFly> mroman: if you're a bit late to an exam, you don't get to write it at all? 18:21:43 <int-e> consider the disturbance to the other students 18:23:34 <FireFly> That's true 18:33:16 <mroman> FireFly: officially, yes 18:33:19 <mroman> unofficially, no 18:33:24 <mroman> you just get less time 18:33:32 <mroman> unless you're lucky 18:34:42 <mroman> disturbance is overrated 18:35:36 <mroman> as if the exam setting isn't disturbing too :) 18:37:37 <mroman> FireFly: why would you be late to an exam anyway 18:38:09 <FireFly> commuter rail issues or whatever 18:38:54 <FireFly> I mean, sure, you usually have a bit of margin, but sometimes there are major traffic issues 18:39:09 <mroman> that counts as acts of god 18:39:10 <coppro> oversleeping 18:39:14 <coppro> best reason 18:39:34 <mroman> and you're pretty fucked if god acts to your misfortune 18:39:59 <mroman> If you're on holidays and your plane crashes 18:40:15 <mroman> it will be cut from your holiday days 18:40:22 <mroman> and from your salary too 18:40:25 <coppro> if you're an atheist, can you still make an acts of god argument? 18:40:30 <mroman> I don't know 18:40:37 <mroman> but that's what leo.org listed as "hoeher Gewalt" 18:40:42 <mroman> we just call it "hoehere Gewalt" 18:40:57 <mroman> which word for word translates to higher power I guess 18:45:21 <elliott> coppro: why not? 18:45:36 <coppro> elliott: lying might be against the school code of conduct 18:46:10 <elliott> coppro: but "act of god" is a term of art, you can't be blindly reductionist about language. 18:46:22 <int-e> coppro: of course, it's a legal term in some jurisdictions 18:46:35 <coppro> elliott: what if I don't consider it art 18:46:51 * elliott rolleyes 18:47:03 <int-e> I like this definition (Scotland): "Circumstances which no human foresight can provide against, and of which human prudence is not bound to recognize the possibility, and which when they do occur, therefore, are calamities that do not involve the obligation of paying for the consequences that may result from them." 18:47:38 <elliott> tbf, I'm sure there are quite some "acts of god" that have a human cause, just an indirect one. 18:49:40 <int-e> sure. 18:50:19 <int-e> it has something to do with the length of a chain of causality, I think 18:51:50 <int-e> if I get stuck on the way to work because the police is blocking streets after a bank robbery that doesn't make the bank robbers agents of god (though they may well think of themselves that way) 18:52:24 -!- myname has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:52:28 <int-e> but from my perspective there's nothing I could've done to foresee and guard against such circumstances. 18:53:51 <elliott> yeah. 18:54:02 <elliott> god is other people. 18:56:48 -!- myname has joined. 19:02:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:03:47 <mroman> well 19:03:52 <mroman> int-e: so's when you get snowed in 19:03:59 <mroman> except snowed in doesn't count as act of god 19:04:40 -!- Bike has joined. 19:07:40 <mroman> you could have gone by train! 19:07:44 <mroman> @bank robbery 19:07:45 <lambdabot> What should I ask robbery? 19:08:03 <mroman> @bank robbery HOW MUCH DID YOU STEAL 19:08:04 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 19:08:09 <mroman> ok...? 19:08:12 <mroman> wth is bank 19:08:22 <int-e> editing distance 2 from "ask" 19:08:51 <int-e> I mean, the bot told you that much: <lambdabot> What should I ask robbery? 19:08:57 <Melvar> @messages-lewd 19:08:57 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 19:09:05 <int-e> @ask mroman 19:09:05 <lambdabot> What should I ask mroman? 19:09:31 <Melvar> @massages-lewd 19:09:32 <FireFly> @help bank 19:09:32 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands 19:09:32 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 19:09:45 <Melvar> ↑ Too bad that’s three. 19:11:34 <mroman> @delp 19:11:35 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands 19:11:40 <FireFly> @messages-told 19:11:41 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 19:11:49 <mroman> @elph 19:11:49 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands 19:12:08 <Melvar> @elf 19:12:10 <mroman> I don't really see why somebody implemented that but ok. 19:12:10 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: tell pl help bf 19:12:19 <mroman> @helpmei'monfire 19:12:19 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 19:12:31 <mroman> @ralph 19:12:31 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 19:12:32 <FireFly> @helpme I'm on fire 19:12:32 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands 19:12:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:13:46 <elliott> ha, @messages-lewd is good 19:14:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:15:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:16:49 -!- Jafet has left. 19:23:43 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 19:25:57 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:26:27 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:32:53 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:45:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:45:57 <mroman> @messages-laut 19:45:58 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 19:46:19 <mroman> @messages-luut 19:46:19 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 19:46:24 <mroman> @noochrichte-luut 19:46:24 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 19:47:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 19:50:55 -!- conehead has joined. 19:55:02 -!- Bike_ has joined. 19:59:43 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 20:06:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:07:49 -!- Bike has joined. 20:09:03 -!- myname has joined. 20:24:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:58:52 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:59:38 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:00:02 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:03:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:23:59 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:43 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 21:26:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:27:54 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:28:02 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:29:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:31:23 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:31:55 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Guest44825. 21:40:14 <Phantom_Hoover> http://djm.cc/bignum-results.txt 21:40:17 <Phantom_Hoover> this is brilliant 21:40:59 <Bicyclidine> pete's determined 21:41:22 <Phantom_Hoover> he came close, too 21:41:44 <Bicyclidine> F[omega**omega] :| 21:43:52 <Phantom_Hoover> and loader just got 'very big' 21:44:49 <Bicyclidine> lesson learned, the busy beaver for 512 chars of C is 'very big' 21:46:42 <Bicyclidine> haha pete-9.c is great 21:47:06 <nortti> http://qntm.org/files/trollpi/piequals4.png 21:47:25 <Bicyclidine> loader.c is also great but i have no idea how to understand hte actual code 21:48:48 <Bicyclidine> doubt i could after gcc -E in all honesty. 21:56:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:57:34 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:59:36 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:00:13 <Phantom_Hoover> you can tell it was written before wikipedia because he refers you to an actual book for the definition of grassman sequences 22:00:23 <Phantom_Hoover> *goodstein 22:05:19 -!- MDude has quit (Quit: later chat). 22:05:21 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:05:49 -!- MDream has joined. 22:06:29 -!- boily has joined. 22:10:56 <FireFly> "big", "very big" 22:12:35 -!- MDream has quit (Quit: later chat). 22:13:23 <Phantom_Hoover> loader also did give the code he used to generate loader.c: http://djm.cc/ralph-loader.tar 22:13:25 <Taneb> ...I was written before Wikipedia 22:13:32 <boily> mroman: mrhelloman. why the confidential informant? 22:15:52 <oerjan> my soap joins the flood of brands that the manufacturers insist on changing into something i don't like :( 22:16:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:16:54 <boily> are Norwegian brands particularly known to be prone to sudden detrimental changes? 22:17:19 <oerjan> they made a test showing most prefer the new smell, but i _hate_ fruity smell in soaps :( 22:17:32 <oerjan> boily: i dunno 22:18:16 <oerjan> i suppose windows 8 counts as a non-norwegian example. 22:18:51 <Sgeo> In BitCoin news: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2364000/bitcoin-price-dips-as-backers-fear-mining-monopoly.html 22:18:55 <Sgeo> *Bitcoin 22:19:05 <oerjan> oh i haven't checked bitcoin in a while 22:19:11 <boily> mining monopoly? interesting. 22:19:32 <Sgeo> Yeah, the thing that wasn't supposed to realistically happen happened 22:19:33 <boily> oerjan: I dunno. I like grapefruit-scented soap. 22:19:54 <Phantom_Hoover> loader.c is truly amazing 22:20:06 <Sgeo> Why am I looking at Golang? 22:20:18 <Sgeo> It might not have Node.js's callback hell, but it has node.js's error hell 22:20:25 <Phantom_Hoover> you shouldn't be! you should be looking at loader.c 22:21:03 <boily> Sgeo: look at rust! rust is good! 22:21:11 <Sgeo> Rust isn't 1.0 yet 22:21:15 <boily> so what. 22:21:17 <FireFly> 512 characters excluding witespace is plenty to generate huge number 22:21:22 <FireFly> numbers* 22:21:53 <Taneb> Is there anyone apart from me for whom the first programming language they learnt was esoteric? 22:22:12 <oerjan> Taneb: probably hth 22:22:26 <Taneb> thal 22:22:29 <FireFly> I think mIRC scripting almost counts 22:23:20 <FireFly> Taneb: what was your first language? 22:23:32 <Taneb> Piet 22:24:07 <FireFly> So you wrote piet programs without knowing any programming language beforehand? 22:24:11 <FireFly> That's pretty impressvie 22:24:34 <Phantom_Hoover> i learnt on pascal so 22:24:47 <boily> GW-BASIC! 22:31:59 * impomatic occasionally uses GWBASIC because I'm too lazy to rewrite my old programs... 22:37:19 <FreeFull> My first language was C 22:40:04 <oerjan> my first language was BASIC, learned from a book without a computer 22:43:54 <FreeFull> I learned from the internet 22:44:44 <Taneb> FreeFull, without a computer? Amazing! 22:45:50 <Bicyclidine> started with minuteman II control systems, as god intended 22:46:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:49:20 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:49:48 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: loader.c is nice, or rather, its readable version. 22:52:21 <Sgeo> I see a form of callback hell in languages that aren't JS: In Ruby and Scheme... things like passing in a closure to a function that opens a file and closes the file when the closure is done 22:52:58 <int-e> I wonder if I can find a copy of that FLO83 article 22:53:26 <Sgeo> If the node.js community manages to handle the normal callback hell sanely (especially at 0.12), maybe they could also handle this other callback hell? 22:53:36 <Bicyclidine> acm journal? i don't see why not 22:53:59 <Sgeo> Racket is perfectly capable of abusing continuations to do it, but I don't think it's idiomatic 22:54:07 <Bicyclidine> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=322370 no abstract, pah 22:54:41 <int-e> ya, university has access 22:56:13 <FireFly> Sgeo: what changed in 0.12? 22:56:29 <Sgeo> *will change 22:56:43 <Sgeo> Node.JS will support ES6 -- including generators 22:56:45 <FireFly> I haven't been paying attention to node for a while 22:56:47 <FireFly> oh 22:56:47 <int-e> Bicyclidine: here's an abstract (with some encoding issues): http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/787214/the-expressiveness-of-simple-and-second-order-type-structures 22:57:23 <FireFly> Neat, I hope that includes destructuring assignments and fat-arrow functions 22:57:52 <Bicyclidine> for some reason i am most used to encoding problems in papers from old ieee and acm papers 22:58:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:58:17 <boily> FireFly: fat arrows, as in coffeescript? 22:58:49 <FireFly> They behave similarly, yes 22:59:17 <FireFly> though not exactly the same--ES6's fat-arrow functions can't be used as constructors IIRC 22:59:47 -!- Bike has joined. 23:00:55 <Bicyclidine> well, and also archive scans, but that's obvious 23:13:56 <Sgeo> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/16/delta-landing-joke_n_5499323.html 23:16:15 <boily> huh. firefox crashed. must be a sign. 23:17:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INCURSIVE CHICKEN). 23:45:58 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:49:03 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:51:35 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-06-17: 00:11:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:14:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:22:28 -!- _46bit has joined. 00:27:00 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:39:30 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:49:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:51:13 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:52:17 -!- Guest44825 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:53:37 -!- Gregor has joined. 00:56:52 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 00:58:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:59:52 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:01:27 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:11:15 -!- vravn has joined. 01:12:50 -!- Bike_ has joined. 01:14:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:28:54 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:46:06 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 01:52:13 <Sgeo> I.... think I like Go's if better than aif 01:52:22 <Sgeo> (except for the whole it's not a ternary operator thing) 02:05:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:08:59 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:10:32 -!- edwardk has joined. 02:12:20 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:12:57 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:12:57 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:20:52 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:24:56 -!- edwardk has joined. 02:27:05 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:46:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:51:44 -!- Bike has joined. 02:54:30 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:41:50 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:42:51 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:43:25 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:43:40 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:44:46 -!- vravn has joined. 04:10:57 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:17:37 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:20:53 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:24:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 04:27:56 -!- brandonsons has joined. 04:30:12 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:21:15 <b_jonas> you know how tcsh is the best esoteric shell, because it supports goto even in interactive mode gotoing among separately entered commands? 05:21:34 <b_jonas> I wonder if anyone had modified tcsh to support computed come from in shell scripts yet. 05:23:22 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:50:13 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:01:37 <coppro> did someone dump hackego's quote database into qdb.us? 06:02:55 <elliott> I hope not... 06:07:28 <Slereah> Wait, why was Y2K even a problem 06:07:36 <Slereah> Were years coded in BCD? 06:08:57 <elliott> two digits 06:10:09 <Slereah> But that's just on the screen 06:10:49 <elliott> nope 06:10:51 <Slereah> So literaly the only source of error would be human error if that was the problem, unless the date was in BCD in the computer 06:10:55 <elliott> you have a year input, it takes two digits 06:10:57 <elliott> you store that number 06:10:58 <elliott> tada 06:11:11 <elliott> you have a "get year" function, it returns the number of years since 1900, tada 06:11:19 <elliott> (js has this) 06:11:33 <Slereah> Did js even exist back then? 06:11:38 <Bike> 19A0, as it were 06:12:33 <Slereah> Weren't a lot of like COBOL computers in BCD or something 06:12:49 <Slereah> Because they were used by non-engineers mostly 06:13:15 <elliott> ..yes, js existed before 2000 06:13:17 <Bike> it's not like engineers never get the idea to use something weird like bcd 06:13:21 <elliott> js was wildly popular before 2000. 06:13:33 <Slereah> The horror 06:13:35 <Bike> vbscript is going to take js's market share, though 06:14:16 <elliott> anyway lots of web pages think it is 19114 06:14:28 <Slereah> The futuuuure 06:14:44 <elliott> they are mistaken. it is in fact september 1993 06:14:55 <Slereah> I wonder if there is some 1996 webpage hidden somewhere in the depth on internet 06:15:08 <Slereah> A fan webpage of Hanson and Spacejam 06:15:11 <Bike> @google one terabyte of kilobyte age 06:15:12 <lambdabot> http://oneterabyteofkilobyteage.tumblr.com/ 06:15:12 <lambdabot> Title: One Terabyte of Kilobyte Age Photo Op 06:15:15 <Slereah> That thinks it is the year -14 06:15:20 <Bike> hth, etc 06:18:59 <Bike> actually i suppose they're past 93 now. they switched to ie, i guess t hey're trying some kind of chronology 06:23:06 <elliott> it ends with a screenshot of your browser viewing the page in present day 06:23:48 <Bike> pans out to me screaming in a theater 06:36:28 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:39:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:52:38 <elliott> ok who on earth actually submitted all the quotes to qdb.us 06:52:45 <elliott> and what the fuck were you thinking 07:02:39 -!- augur has joined. 07:23:11 <olsner> which quotes? #esoteric quotes? 07:29:36 <elliott> yes 07:29:50 <elliott> including the ones that are not even defensible as in any way good and make no sense outside the context of the channel 07:29:53 <elliott> just all of them 07:30:05 <elliott> and thi sinvolved reformatting them on multiple lines so someone put way too much effort into spamming qdb with our crap 07:31:47 <Bike> listen, i don't want to defend this or anything, but i don't think it's gonna be much worse than the rest of qdb. 07:38:09 <elliott> it's just 07:38:10 <elliott> baffling 07:44:09 <mroman> I can't find any quote from here there 07:47:32 <olsner> looks like they're in the queue 07:52:42 <fizzie> POSIX's (and all similar) struct tm has a tm_year member that's also year-1900, so a lot of C programs also think it's 19114. 07:57:08 -!- slereah_ has joined. 07:57:51 <mroman> printf("19%d", tm.year)? 07:58:04 <slereah_> Damn you Y2K! 07:58:14 <mroman> yeah 07:58:24 <mroman> they should just have reset the calendar to 1900 07:58:30 <mroman> for backwards compatability 07:58:44 <mroman> and to confuse historians in the future 07:59:13 <slereah_> They should use unsigned ints in number of seconds since the big bzn 07:59:13 <mroman> no sense in making their job intentionally easier. 07:59:21 <mroman> it's supposed to be a mystic job! 07:59:28 <slereah_> bang* 07:59:48 <slereah_> That's like 07:59:54 <slereah_> 10^20 08:00:12 <slereah_> How many bits is that, like 70? 08:00:34 <slereah_> Put it as 128 bits for time 08:01:44 <slereah_> You'll be fine until 10790283070806014188970529154990 years 08:02:01 <slereah_> And you can write all times 08:02:06 <mroman> then what you gonna do? 08:02:25 <mroman> extend it to 256 bits 08:02:29 <slereah_> Then you have the year 10790283070806014188970529154990 bug 08:02:40 <mroman> and hoping no banks will collapse due to the 2^128 bug 08:02:41 <slereah_> Or Y10790283070806014188970529154990K, as it is known 08:03:49 <slereah_> With some luck the universe will have been destroyed by that time 08:03:59 <slereah_> But then again that's the attitude that led to Y2K 08:04:09 <slereah_> "Oh yeah with the cold war we're all gonna be nuked by the 80's" 08:04:14 <slereah_> No need to plan ahead 08:05:01 <mroman> true 08:05:13 <mroman> I still think that'll be true for about 2050 08:05:51 <slereah_> Nah, nukes are all out of fashion 08:05:56 <slereah_> Now it's global warming 08:09:50 <mroman> but history taught us that things don't really happen fast :) 08:10:18 <mroman> Even if you bought games from the 90s 08:10:28 <mroman> the way those game designers saw 2012 08:10:38 <mroman> way too optimistic :D 08:10:55 <slereah_> Or both, in the case of Duke Nukem Forever~ 08:16:35 -!- brandonsons has quit (*.net *.split). 08:16:36 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 08:16:37 -!- tromp has quit (*.net 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<Taneb> @tell Phantom_Hoover Don't look at r/haskell unless you have a brick handy 08:38:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 08:39:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:42:49 <slereah_> Phew, solved the memory leak 08:43:01 <slereah_> Apparently C prefers that I join my threads rather than cancel 'em 08:43:04 <slereah_> Whatever that means 08:44:02 -!- TodPunk has joined. 08:44:03 -!- augur has joined. 08:44:03 -!- brandonsons has joined. 08:44:03 -!- vravn has joined. 08:44:03 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 08:44:03 -!- Bike has joined. 08:44:03 -!- _46bit has joined. 08:44:03 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:44:03 -!- vyv has joined. 08:44:03 -!- aloril has joined. 08:44:03 -!- heroux has joined. 08:44:03 -!- tromp has joined. 08:44:03 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:44:03 -!- trout has joined. 08:44:03 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:44:03 -!- newsham has joined. 08:44:03 -!- ggherdov has joined. 08:44:03 -!- Speed` has joined. 08:44:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 08:44:03 -!- clog has joined. 08:44:03 -!- mtve has joined. 08:46:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:46:17 <mroman> slereah_: uhm 08:46:23 <mroman> Why would you cancel them 08:46:27 <mroman> It's not even guaranteed to work 08:46:34 <mroman> as threads can be in uncanceable states etc. 08:46:38 <slereah_> Because I have no idea what happens to threads when they are done 08:47:12 <mroman> they are destroyed 08:47:25 <mroman> join just waits for them to exit 08:48:27 <slereah_> But then why would cancelling them after they are done cause a memory leak 08:50:06 <mroman> well 08:50:12 <mroman> you shouldnt cancel terminated threads anyway 08:50:48 <slereah_> Then why does that function exist 08:50:56 <mroman> to cancel threads 08:51:22 <olsner> either join each thread, detach it or create it detached 08:51:35 <mroman> generally cancelling threads isn't really a nice way of doing things 08:51:36 <b_jonas> ah, it's that channel 08:51:47 <mroman> I think the general opinion is to use sync mechanisms to do that 08:52:11 <mroman> thread apis in other languages usually don't even support that anymore @killing other threads 08:52:34 <mroman> anyway... pthread_cancel takes a pthread_t 08:52:41 <mroman> depending on what pthread_t is 08:52:49 <mroman> maybe it's a thread id of some sort 08:52:55 <mroman> and maybe that thread id gets reused at some point 08:53:07 <mroman> so it might even be the case that you'll cancel a completely different thread 08:53:21 <mroman> because it reuses the thread id of some thread that has already terminated 08:55:04 <mroman> but yeah 08:55:10 <mroman> either join or detach them 08:55:27 <mroman> when a detached thread terminates it's released without having to join on it 08:56:58 <mroman> slereah_: Some resources are kept when a thread terminates 08:57:00 <mroman> like it's exit status 08:57:11 <mroman> so you can ask for the exit status later on 08:57:32 <mroman> which is why you'll have lots of orphan threads (or whatever they are called) around 08:57:39 <mroman> unless you either join or detach them 08:57:41 <b_jonas> exactly, cancelling threads or throwing asynchronious exceptions to threads is generally so dangerous and hard to get right that it's not worth to even try, except on this channel 08:58:39 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:58:48 <mroman> Just consider a thread having a lock 08:59:04 <mroman> I'm not even sure if locks are released if a thread gets canceld 08:59:11 <mroman> I hope so, but I'd have to check that someday 08:59:22 <b_jonas> they should not be released 08:59:41 <mroman> for pure calculation stuff cancelling is probably not so problematic 08:59:43 <mroman> but still 08:59:44 <slereah_> Aw 08:59:50 <slereah_> I don't want orphans in my computer :( 09:00:20 <slereah_> But yeah, my neural network thing was taking like 09:00:26 <slereah_> 9% of the memory per cycle 09:00:31 <slereah_> Now it's a flat 0.6% 09:00:34 <slereah_> Much better 09:01:21 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:01:58 <mroman> You could use cleanup_push 09:02:00 <mroman> then cancel it 09:02:10 <mroman> and make sure that you release the lock in the cleanup handler you pushed 09:02:25 <mroman> That's probably more #esoteric style . 09:02:28 <slereah_> heh 09:02:37 <slereah_> Well it is a work thing, so I'd rather do it cleanly 09:04:29 <slereah_> I should try to do an esolang based on pi calculus someday 09:11:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:11:56 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:15:41 -!- aloril has joined. 09:16:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:18:45 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:22:33 -!- slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:34:42 -!- slereah_ has joined. 10:08:06 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 10:08:44 -!- Ghoul_ has changed nick to Aetherspawn-. 10:17:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:18:55 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:50 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:27:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:30:43 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:31:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:45:17 -!- glogbackup has joined. 10:45:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:51:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:55:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:57:50 -!- Bike has joined. 11:00:57 -!- boily has quit (Quit: JETTIARY CHICKEN). 11:03:39 <oerjan> oh someone fixed the content-type problem with tunes 11:08:40 <ais523> tunes actually being maintained feels wrong to me, somehow 11:08:56 <ais523> I have this mental image of the whole place having been abandoned years ago, being updated only by clog 11:09:43 <int-e> running like clogwork? 11:10:21 <oerjan> ais523: well _maybe_ it was an IE bug that was fixed instead. 11:10:50 <ais523> oerjan: the one where you can XSS attack a plain text file? that was probably the one 11:11:25 <oerjan> ais523: well the tunes files end in .listofnumbers 11:11:41 <oerjan> and perhaps IE just stopped assuming those to be text. 11:11:56 <oerjan> hm... 11:12:04 <oerjan> `url bin/url 11:12:12 <oerjan> oops 11:12:19 <oerjan> oh wait 11:12:40 <oerjan> i need something in paste/ to check that. 11:12:55 <oerjan> although that _may_ have been the hg browser's settings. 11:13:04 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:13:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:13:17 <callforjudgement> [12:12] <ais523> well, IE had a bug where it would interpret an explicit text/plain as text/html whenever it felt like it 11:13:17 <callforjudgement> [12:12] <ais523> the standard workaround used to be to serve plaintext files as text/css 11:13:18 <callforjudgement> [12:12] <ais523> which is interpreted the same way as text/plain by all browsers but IE, which interprets it the same way other browsers interpret text/plain 11:13:18 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 11:13:36 <oerjan> gah why must my browser have forgotten the hg repository url 11:14:29 <int-e> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ ?! 11:15:00 <oerjan> ais523: i find it unlikely that IE interpreted tunes logs as html at any point? 11:15:08 <oerjan> thanks 11:15:22 <ais523> oerjan: someone sent you to meatspin like that, didn't they? 11:15:52 * oerjan adds to favorites 11:16:40 <oerjan> ais523: ok there have been weird cases, but what happened recently was that it refused to open and asked to download instead. 11:17:14 <ais523> ah right, so an entirely different bug 11:17:50 <oerjan> nope, hg repository still does that. 11:18:19 <oerjan> (and that was, i recall, an intentional security enhancement.) 11:19:36 -!- ais523 has quit. 11:19:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:20:36 <ais523> oh gah I was going to report a bug in something 11:20:42 <ais523> but I've forgotten both what the bug is, and what package I was going to report it in 11:20:44 <oerjan> in any case nothing happened on the clog side of the netsplits anyway :P 11:20:50 <ais523> or, ooh, I just remembered a different bug, anyway 11:21:05 <ais523> five-or-more sets the permissions incorrectly on the score file 11:21:39 * oerjan assumes nethack 11:21:53 <ais523> nah, not much point in reporting bugs against a 10-year-old game 11:22:00 <ais523> to Debian, anyway 11:22:05 <ais523> I remembered what it is, anyway 11:22:12 <oerjan> well, nethack 4 then, except then you'd fix it not report it 11:22:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:22:24 <ais523> funny-manpages puts manpages in section 1 that should be in section 7 11:22:33 <ais523> even if they're joke manpages, they should still be in the right section 11:28:15 <int-e> dungeon crawl stone soup is another roguelike that came up here recently 11:28:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:31:55 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has changed nick to KingBot. 11:32:37 -!- KingBot has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 11:41:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 11:42:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:42:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:45:02 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 11:46:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:47:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 11:47:45 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:49:33 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:58:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:01:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:15:30 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:17:08 <ais523> gah, I enter the wrong password into sudo 3 times 12:17:10 <ais523> and it emails me 12:17:35 <ais523> this is completely pointless from a security point of view because an attacker could just confirm the password using some other method (e.g. passwd) before entering it into sudo 12:18:49 <ais523> meanwhile, here's my first attempt to submit a patch to Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/five-or-more/+bug/1330956 12:19:02 <ais523> if nothing happens for a bit, I'll see if it's a bug in Debian too, and if it is, file the bug there 12:19:14 <ais523> (note: for this particular package, it's possible that it isn't, although there's no "ubuntu" suffix on the version number so it probably is) 12:19:54 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:22:12 <oerjan> oh five-or-more is the name of the game 12:22:26 <oerjan> i thought it was a condition for the bug to happen 12:24:54 <b_jonas> oerjan: I thought the same bug was present in a games package for the high score table of five or more games 12:25:43 <ais523> b_jonas: that is possible; many games (well more than five) were originally in the gnome-games codebase before it was split into smaller packages 12:25:48 <ais523> and IIRC at least one other (that I don't have installed) has that bug 12:27:17 <ais523> it'll also be fun to see what (if anything) is done about copyright for a patch that deletes one line 12:27:23 <ais523> it's the first time I've submitted a pure-deletion patch anywhere 12:27:40 <ais523> "How many lines of code do you have in Five Or More?" "-1" 12:28:18 -!- yorick has joined. 12:30:07 <ais523> also, I think I'm still running at 100% for "proportion of bugs I found in Gnome that I submitted patches for" 12:31:09 <b_jonas> maybe you don't use gnome enough 12:31:25 <ais523> I don't use it that much, indeed 12:35:58 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:36:57 <b_jonas> do you count all the infrastructure projects that gnome has spawned, but that are used outside gnome, like libglib, gtk+, pango, etc? 12:37:14 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:37:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:41:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:42:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:53:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:12:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:18:39 -!- ais523_ has joined. 13:21:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:30:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:38:25 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:41:27 -!- MDream has joined. 13:41:40 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:42:05 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:28:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:31:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:41:22 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:43:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:43:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:49:04 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:49:05 -!- mihow has joined. 14:50:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:50:37 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:56:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:16:45 <mroman> I really hate exam questions 15:17:00 <mroman> "Code generation is the most time consuming phase of a compiler? [ ] Yes [ ] No" 15:17:08 <mroman> How the hell am I supposed to answer thta 15:17:21 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 15:17:25 <FireFly> No clue 15:17:40 <b_jonas> mroman: flip a coin 15:17:40 <FireFly> We don't usually have yes/no questions like that on our exams 15:17:52 <FireFly> Not sure if coins are permitted on exams 15:17:59 <b_jonas> dice then 15:18:29 <b_jonas> roll d6, if result odd, pick Yes, otherwise pick No 15:18:51 <FireFly> [x] Yes -- chosen by fair dice roll 15:20:16 <ais523_> but 4 is even 15:20:18 <mroman> there actually was a "Don't know" option too 15:20:30 <mroman> I just checked all three of those boxes 15:20:33 <ais523_> mroman: which compiler? 15:20:37 <mroman> ais523_: well... 15:20:38 <mroman> any 15:20:39 <mroman> probably 15:20:42 <mroman> I don't know 15:20:44 <ais523_> I bet there's at least one for which the answer is yes; also, IIRC the answer is no for gcc 15:20:46 <mroman> It didn't say 15:21:18 <b_jonas> it depends on settings, not just the compiler 15:21:26 <ais523_> oh, all these BF-to-high-level-language-by-textual-subtitution compilers 15:21:31 <ais523_> spend their /entire time/ in code generation 15:21:32 <mroman> gcc with optimization enabled is really slow 15:21:35 <mroman> compared to no optimization 15:21:43 <ais523_> so those are definitely yes 15:21:45 <mroman> and I don't think optimization has that much an influence on the parser 15:22:12 <ais523_> optimization doesn't have that much influence on codegen either, though 15:22:20 <ais523_> it mostly affects how long the optimizer takes to run (fairly obviously) 15:22:26 <mroman> obviously 15:23:14 <mroman> for some esolang compilers reading the file to compile is probably the most time consuming task 15:23:26 <mroman> (and write the output) 15:23:55 <mroman> not sure if reading file counts as parsing and writing file counts as codegen 15:25:36 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:26:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:32:47 <mroman> Obviously I could create an esolang that requires a compiler to do prime factorization 15:33:06 <mroman> hm 15:33:13 <mroman> actually... why not 15:33:26 <b_jonas> mroman: or just play tricks with haskell or C++ or other languages 15:33:28 <mroman> There's a list of primes that encode the opcode 15:34:00 <mroman> and operands are encoded with primes too 15:34:12 <mroman> so an add instruction is something like 9*13*17 15:34:19 <mroman> where 9 is the opcode and 13,17 are the operands 15:34:27 <mroman> oh wait 15:34:29 <mroman> 9 isn't prime 15:34:30 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:34:48 <mroman> 7*13*17 then 15:35:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:35:51 <MDude> Nine would just be 3 applied twice? 15:36:36 <mroman> hm 15:36:37 <mroman> or 15:36:45 <mroman> p*2^x*3^y 15:36:56 <mroman> p is the opcode, x the first operand and y the second operand 15:37:05 <mroman> that should be uniquely deconstructable 15:37:09 <mroman> (p is prime) 15:37:46 <mroman> > 13*2^128*3^256 15:37:48 <lambdabot> 6149276275598477388941702188757835746814475554454696977361857718474664018531... 15:39:13 <mroman> people claim that programmes used to program with this in the nineties . 15:40:13 <int-e> > let c n 0 = 1; c n k = c (n-1) (k-1) * n `div` k; triple a b c = c (a+b+c+2) 3 + c (a+b+1) 2 + c a 1 in triple 13 128 256 15:40:15 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: 15:40:16 <lambdabot> a3 ~ a3 -> a4 -> a2 15:40:16 <lambdabot> Relevant bindings include 15:40:16 <lambdabot> c :: a3 -> a4 -> a2 (bound at <interactive>:1:62) 15:40:16 <lambdabot> b :: a3 (bound at <interactive>:1:60) 15:40:25 <int-e> hah. 15:40:52 <int-e> > let bin n 0 = 1; bin n k = bin (n-1) (k-1) * n `div` k; triple a b c = bi (a+b+c+2) 3 + bin (a+b+1) 2 + bin a 1 in triple 13 128 256 15:40:53 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘bi’ 15:40:53 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these: 15:40:53 <lambdabot> ‘b’ (line 1), ‘bin’ (line 1), ‘pi’ (imported from Prelude) 15:41:04 <int-e> > let bin n 0 = 1; bin n k = bin (n-1) (k-1) * n `div` k; triple a b c = bin (a+b+c+2) 3 + bin (a+b+1) 2 + bin a 1 in triple 13 128 256 15:41:06 <lambdabot> 10517423 15:41:30 <mroman> binomial coefficients? 15:41:33 <int-e> yes. 15:41:45 <mroman> what for? 15:42:00 <Bike> psh, they have infinite uses 15:42:02 <int-e> in this case, for encoding triples of natural numbers as natural numbers 15:42:14 <mroman> oh 15:42:15 <mroman> ok 15:44:07 <MDude> I think p would have to not only be prime, but laos larger than 3. 15:45:16 <mroman> or 15:45:24 <mroman> A language where state is a number 15:45:30 <mroman> and you can multiply divide it by two 15:45:33 <mroman> i.e. 15:45:48 <mroman> *p,x multiplies the state by p^x 15:46:01 <mroman> /p,x divides the state by p^x 15:46:21 <mroman> [x loops as long as x divides the state 15:46:23 <mroman> so 15:46:40 <mroman> *2,128 *3,156 [2 /2,1 *3,1] should add 128+156 15:47:07 <mroman> *it by numbers 15:47:54 <mroman> maybe add an indirect operator 15:47:56 <mroman> something like 15:48:10 <mroman> $2 gives you how many times 2 divides the state 15:48:46 <int-e> mroman: are you aware of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRACTRAN ? 15:49:06 <mroman> no 15:52:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:53:52 -!- Bike has joined. 15:57:33 -!- slereah_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:08:52 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:14:16 -!- password2 has joined. 16:45:17 -!- lollo64it has joined. 16:50:53 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:53:35 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:59:22 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:00:22 -!- erdic has joined. 17:14:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:20:27 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:20:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:20:43 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 17:24:12 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:25:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:28:57 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:30:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:34:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 17:35:32 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 17:35:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:05:06 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, an eagle-owl is just an owl with nothing in particular to do with an eagle, despite the name. 18:06:24 <Slereah> Well, it flies??? 18:06:50 <fizzie> I don't think that really differentiates it from owls in general, though. 18:07:15 <Slereah> What about 18:07:18 <Slereah> The Superb Owl 18:07:27 <Slereah> It's a very popular owl in America 18:07:33 <Slereah> Millions of people watch it every year 18:08:05 <fizzie> I'm not familiar with that owl. 18:12:17 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:12:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 18:12:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 18:14:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:18:48 <Quintopia> What about the H Owl? It saw the best minds of its generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical 18:19:04 <Quintopia> Or the Mightyt Owl? Very popular in Pittsburgh 18:19:26 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 18:20:01 <elliott> owl ban you all if you keep this up 18:21:10 <Quintopia> sounds like someone's a mr. grumpypants. what's wrong? got a headache? 18:21:17 <nooodl> @messages-lowl 18:21:17 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages 18:21:41 <fizzie> Such a hoot. 18:21:49 * Quintopia offers elliott a Tylen Owl 18:22:04 <ais523_> Quintopia: that brand name isn't in use in the UK 18:22:19 <Quintopia> ais523_: neither is Mighty Towel or Super Bowl 18:22:21 <ais523_> I'm aware of it, but am not quite sure what medicine it refers to 18:22:21 <elliott> Quintopia: a nasty cold, actually, but I like banning people no matter how ill I am 18:22:27 <elliott> ais523_: paracetamol 18:22:35 <ais523_> ah right 18:22:44 <ais523_> I'm not even sure if that has a dominant manufacturer in the UK 18:22:45 <elliott> ais523_: which is referred to as acetaminophen generically in the US 18:23:03 <elliott> (I think) 18:23:06 <ais523_> Calpol is the one I can think of offhand, but it's mostly marketed at parents to give to their children 18:23:30 <ais523_> rather than for adults to take themselves 18:23:42 <Quintopia> elliott is good at translating to American. does that mean we've rubbed off on him? 18:24:04 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:25:26 <ais523_> being British and living on the Internet for any extended period of time makes you quite good at US/UK translations 18:26:47 -!- tswett has joined. 18:27:00 <tswett> So! What's the best formalism of an analog signal? 18:27:29 <elliott> Quintopia: who has rubbed one off on me is none of your business 18:27:45 <ais523_> tswett: 0/1/X/U/L/H/W/Z/Q 18:28:23 <ais523_> this isn't a particularly /useful/ formalism for analog work, given that it interprets all values that aren't at either voltage rail as W (or if you're unlucky, X) 18:28:44 <ais523_> but it nonetheless formalizes analog signals, and is good 18:29:17 <tswett> Remind me what U, W, and Q are. 18:29:44 <nooodl> remind me what all of those are 18:30:24 <tswett> 0 is low voltage, low impedance. 1 is high voltage, low impedance. X I think is unspecified voltage, unspecified impedance. L is low voltage, medium impedance. H is high voltage, medium impedance. Z is unspecified voltage, high impedance. 18:30:25 <tswett> Right? 18:30:45 <ais523_> tswett: X is the value you get if you connect a 0 to a 1 18:31:08 <ais523_> depending on the circuit design, it either means "somewhere between 0 and 1, low impedance", or "your circuit just caught fire" 18:31:09 <tswett> Ooh. 18:31:34 <ais523_> U is the value the hardware defaults to if you don't give it any instructions at all 18:31:55 <ais523_> W is any medium impedance value other than L or H 18:32:07 <ais523_> and I'm not convinced Q exists, I think I might have made it up by mistake when listing the options 18:32:18 <tswett> What are all these things called, again? 18:32:48 <tswett> Here we go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1164 18:33:34 <ais523_> oh right, there is a - 18:33:49 <ais523_> I should have listed that one, rather than making up an extra value because I remembered there were 9 but not what the 9th one was 18:34:27 <ais523_> "The "Z" value does exist in real-world circuits but only as an output state." 18:34:36 <ais523_> I'm sure Microchip would have a few words to say about that 18:34:52 <ais523_> they were the masters of finding ways to abuse chips for unintended purposes 18:34:57 <ais523_> maybe still are 18:35:06 <tswett> All my input pins are 0. 18:35:32 <tswett> This lets me see what's going on using an ammeter. 18:35:38 <ais523_> well, if you try to read an input pin as an output, you read a Z 18:35:55 <ais523_> but it's going to look like a 0 or a 1 unless you have very specialised input circuitry to connect it to 18:36:20 <tswett> An ADC, perhaps? 18:36:29 <tswett> Small amount of noise, it's a 0 or a 1. Large amount of noise, it's a Z. 18:36:41 <ais523_> haha, clever 18:36:53 <ais523_> my method would be to switch a small-valued resistor in and out 18:36:58 <ais523_> and see how much it changed the voltage by 18:37:10 <ais523_> or really, you could just use a bias to make Z read 0.5 or whatever 18:38:02 <tswett> The best output value is C. 18:38:06 <tswett> Low impedance grounded capacitor. 18:38:44 <ais523_> wait what? how do you use that from the input side? 18:38:50 <ais523_> also, high or low capacitance? 18:39:26 <tswett> High capacitance. 18:39:45 <tswett> It just stays at whatever voltage level it was most recently driven to. 18:40:24 <callforjudgement> so you can attach it to 1, then L 18:40:28 <callforjudgement> and get yourself a timer :-) 18:40:40 <tswett> I wonder if you could test for Z by sending a tiny pulse in and seeing if it gets reflected or not. 18:41:05 <ais523_> gah, bad memories 18:41:26 <ais523_> that's the only module I ever failed in my EE degree (although I still got a first for the degree overall, my other marks were high enough to compensate for the huge penalty a failure gives) 18:42:23 <tswett> Come to think of it, computer audio inputs seem to be pretty good at figuring out the impedance. 18:42:36 <tswett> A cable that's unplugged gives way more noise than a cable that's plugged into something. 18:42:54 <tswett> I mean, it'd be kind of amazing if you could actually take the noise level and calculate the capacitance. 18:47:35 <fizzie> Panadol is the dominant Paracetamol container in Finland, I believe. 18:47:52 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:49:47 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:56:14 <tswett> So we could say an analog signal is a sum of Gaussian functions that has finite energy in any time and frequency window. Or something. 18:58:22 <tswett> Say that it's a sum of Gaussian functions such that, if you multiply it by a Gaussian and convolute it with a Gaussian, then the result has a finite amount of total energy. 18:59:29 <tswett> 'Cept that you'll also want to allow the product of a Gaussian with a function of the form e^(a i t) for real a. 'Cause taking the Fourier transform of a shifted Gaussian gives you a Gaussian multiplied by one of those. 19:00:19 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:04:52 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:13:34 <tswett> I wonder if you could define white noise functions like that. 19:20:38 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 19:23:20 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 19:23:48 -!- edwardk has joined. 19:30:18 -!- conehead has joined. 19:32:34 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 19:32:40 -!- Bicyclid1ne has joined. 19:32:51 -!- Bicyclid1ne has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 20:11:48 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:11:54 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Changing host). 20:11:54 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 20:19:11 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:12 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:12 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:13 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:13 -!- vravn has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:13 -!- vyv has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:13 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:13 -!- trout has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:15 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:15 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:15 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:16 -!- _46bit has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:17 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:17 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:17 -!- Speed` has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:59 -!- heroux has joined. 20:20:11 -!- conehead has joined. 20:20:12 -!- augur has joined. 20:20:12 -!- vravn has joined. 20:20:12 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 20:20:12 -!- _46bit has joined. 20:20:12 -!- vyv has joined. 20:20:12 -!- mtve has joined. 20:20:12 -!- clog has joined. 20:20:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:20:12 -!- Speed` has joined. 20:20:12 -!- ggherdov has joined. 20:20:12 -!- newsham has joined. 20:20:56 -!- variable has joined. 20:21:18 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 20:21:18 -!- variable has joined. 20:21:18 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 20:21:18 -!- variable has joined. 20:24:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:24:43 -!- edwardk has quit (*.net *.split). 20:24:44 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 20:24:44 -!- brandonsons has quit (*.net *.split). 20:24:44 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 20:24:45 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 20:24:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 20:32:25 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:33:24 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:36:20 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:35 -!- edwardk has joined. 20:36:36 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:36:36 -!- brandonsons has joined. 20:36:36 -!- tromp has joined. 20:36:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:40:31 -!- erdic has joined. 20:49:07 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:56:20 -!- erdic has joined. 21:05:51 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 21:17:28 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:20:27 -!- myname has joined. 21:25:07 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:27:27 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:29:23 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:37:00 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 21:55:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:08:22 -!- madbr has joined. 22:10:40 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:12:35 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:38:05 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:40:43 <Sgeo> Interesting thing about Go: They seem to want to make using undefined behavior obviously not work 22:40:47 <Sgeo> "Iterations over small maps no longer happen in a consistent order. Go 1 defines that “The iteration order over maps is not specified and is not guaranteed to be the same from one iteration to the next.” To keep code from depending on map iteration order, Go 1.0 started each map iteration at a random index in the map. A new map implementation introduced in Go 1.1 neglected to randomize iteration for maps with eight or fewer entries, 22:40:48 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:40:49 <Sgeo> although the iteration order can still vary from system to system. This has allowed people to write Go 1.1 and Go 1.2 programs that depend on small map iteration order and therefore only work reliably on certain systems. Go 1.3 reintroduces random iteration for small maps in order to flush out these bugs." 22:41:27 <_46bit> I honestly sort of like it. 22:41:50 <Bicyclidine> i've seen methods of "discouraging" using UB before, but reliance on prng state is new to me 22:42:04 <_46bit> It sounds like code might need testing N times to rule out use of undefined behaviour though 22:43:12 <Bicyclidine> i like how they talk about using UB being a bug in something where there's obviously only one implementation 22:44:06 <Sgeo> I think there's technically two implementations + future implementations 22:44:14 <qlkzy> there are as many implementations as there are in-use versions of Go, surely 22:44:23 <Sgeo> As in, there's a compatibility 'guarantee' for Go 1.x 22:44:49 <Bicyclidine> Sgeo: i was thinking because they use "Go" to mean the language standard and an implementation interchangeably. 22:45:12 <Bicyclidine> you can make my message "[...] only one implementation that matters" if you like 22:46:01 <qlkzy> presumably, they're trying to avoid the problem e.g. Microsoft have always had with people building software that depends on the particular behaviour of the current version 22:46:08 <qlkzy> creating a backwards-compatability nightmare 22:46:23 <Bicyclidine> yeah. i just think it's funny. 22:46:50 <Bicyclidine> i wonder if they use the same prng state as the user, or have a completely separate one. i think i don't like either option! 22:47:24 <qlkzy> I think separate works better 22:48:29 <Bicyclidine> i'd certainly prefer it. 22:49:05 * _46bit imagines how awful code he could write in Go if it depends upon the current state 22:50:12 <_46bit> A badly-named function that temporarily seeds the PRNG to a known value, followed by iteration-order-critical code, followed by setting the PRNG state back. 22:50:34 <_46bit> It sounds like an esoteric language could emerge out of that style. 22:50:40 <Bicyclidine> name it Go1dot0Compat, ofc 22:50:50 <Bicyclidine> Go1dot1Compat rather 22:50:53 <_46bit> A language with one construct where the behaviour depends upon the current PRNG state. 22:50:58 <_46bit> Wait. That has to already exist. 22:52:41 <Bicyclidine> "Map iteration previously started from a random bucket, but walked each bucket from the beginning. Now, iteration always starts from the first bucket and walks each bucket starting at a random offset. For performance, the random offset is selected at the start of iteration and reused for each bucket." 22:52:46 <Bicyclidine> For Speed 22:52:53 <qlkzy> well, the original implementation was separate: https://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=02c15930f43c 22:53:14 <elliott> here's a fun thing you could do: 22:53:20 <elliott> iterate through a map to get some entropy for your own purposes 22:53:31 <elliott> RNG without anything beyond built-in iteration constructs! 22:53:57 <Bicyclidine> let's see, i think the new one is doing runtime·fastrand1() 22:54:04 <Bicyclidine> center dot? ok. 22:54:19 <qlkzy> elliott: there's a post on one of the forums that says "we want it to be random, but not too random, so people don't use it as a source of entropy" 22:54:26 <_46bit> :D 22:54:31 <elliott> qlkzy: well, that's no obstacle 22:54:35 <elliott> you just have to wring the entropy out slowly 22:54:42 <elliott> where there's a will... 22:54:46 <Bicyclidine> qlkzy: how can you tell it's separate? (i don't know runtime or anything) 22:56:09 <qlkzy> Bicyclidine, I'm not overly familiar with go, but afaict user prngs would be some way up from "runtime.fastrand1()" 22:56:54 <qlkzy> because each user prng is a configurable object with a source, rather than a static C function 22:56:55 <Bicyclidine> i think i will check the sources, now i'm curious. you might be able to make an exploit out of this in some ridiculous way 22:57:19 <oerjan> clearly the go implementers need to take a look at malbolge unshackled. 22:57:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:57:45 <oerjan> (anyone else is also welcome, especially if they're willing to program in it) 22:57:53 -!- tswett has joined. 22:57:58 <qlkzy> it is 'low-quality' randomness, so perhaps exploitable if an application depends on the iteration order in some way 22:58:19 <Bicyclidine> fastrand1 looks like an LCG with some global called "m" 22:58:57 <elliott> how feasible is it to create a language where writing a program in it that does what you want is Hard (e.g., on the order of breaking crypto), but you can write a public spec/implementation without jeopardising that? 22:58:58 <Bicyclidine> "extern register M *m;" ok. 22:59:27 <Bicyclidine> the comment says some ARM compilers actually notice the register declaration or something 22:59:36 <elliott> like, "decrypt the program with a private key only the language author knows" works if you expose the interpreter via the internet, but you can't make a public spec out of it 22:59:41 <Bicyclidine> or... they have their own compiler, or something. 22:59:47 <elliott> I guess this could tie into homomorphic encryption type things? 23:00:12 <elliott> Bicyclidine: Go uses its own C compiler I think? 23:00:24 <elliott> since it's built on top of a port of the plan 9 compiler toolchain 23:00:30 <Bicyclidine> figures 23:01:17 <Bicyclidine> yeah, looks like the user exposed generators are separate, and in fact implemented in go 23:01:27 <qlkzy> surely Go takes advantage of the massive optimization work in existing compilers? 23:01:43 <elliott> the Plan 9 compilers are existing. 23:01:46 <Bicyclidine> http://golang.org/src/pkg/runtime/runtime.h#L290 still, lookit all that state 23:02:04 <elliott> they date back to the 90s, I think 23:02:06 <Bicyclidine> (you can see the uint32 fastrand) 23:02:08 <qlkzy> fine, "massive optimization work in popular compilers" 23:02:11 <qlkzy> :p 23:02:21 <elliott> well... Go is a programming language 23:02:28 <elliott> they're already in the job of writing an optimising compiler 23:02:47 <Bicyclidine> and they obviously sort of care about performance if they're telling the compiler what should be a register. 23:02:58 <Bicyclidine> the cause of the conversation aside 23:03:24 <elliott> I mean the C compiler will only affect the speed of the Go compiler. 23:03:32 <elliott> the speed of Go programs will depend on the Go compiler. 23:03:49 <Bicyclidine> well there's also the runtime, right? 23:04:03 <elliott> well, right. 23:04:16 <elliott> anyway the plan 9 c compilers and the go compiler are written by the same-ish people, so. 23:04:19 <oerjan> hm actually if they wanted to avoid both entropy use and dependence on order they should just choose the order randomly at startup, but fixed for each program run. (that's one of the options malbolge unshackled chooses between iirc.) 23:04:43 <oerjan> *approximately one of 23:05:10 <Sgeo> There's another thing I like about the Go HTTP stack, that reminds me of some (not all) of the Haskell web frameworks: Routing layers themselves produce an HTTP application that can be nested in another routing layer, rather than a routing layer having to be at the top 23:12:48 <Bicyclidine> fastrand1 is seeded from cputicks(), but at least on arm linux cputicks() is actually nanotime() + a random number which is... pulled from the elf i think? 23:13:53 <Bicyclidine> "The address of sixteen bytes containing a random value." huh, that's kind of cool (from man getauxvalue) 23:15:12 <Bicyclidine> and you can view the whole aux vector with an environment value on literally any program, so presumably that's in ld.so? nifty, nifty 23:16:47 <elliott> literally any dnyamically linked program, then 23:17:20 <Bicyclidine> i am the sufferer 23:17:54 <elliott> yeah 23:21:16 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:23:34 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:25:44 <Sgeo> I also think I like type switching, but really don't like the thought of that being an idiomatic way of doing things 23:26:00 <Sgeo> I like type switching as a last resort feature ala unsafeCoerce 23:26:22 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:26:52 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:27:17 <elliott> note that type switching breaks parametricity. 23:27:34 <elliott> (hence, arguably, abstraction) 23:29:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:33:14 <Sgeo> Pretty sure I like Rust's error handling more than Go's. As explicit as Go, but there's a (still explicit) shortcut in the common case of returning earl 23:33:15 <Sgeo> y 23:33:32 <elliott> Go using tuples for sum types is horrific 23:34:35 <Sgeo> I don't think multiple return quite counts as tuples. Can't just store the multiple return in some variable. But still bad at simulating sum types in the same way as what you meant, probably 23:35:14 <elliott> yes, because an error must be (err, <garbage>) 23:35:48 <Sgeo> Go seem to assume that 'zero it out' is meaningful most of the time, except when it isn't 23:36:01 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:47:29 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 23:47:29 -!- tswett has joined. 23:55:07 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:58:54 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-06-18: 00:11:01 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:12:07 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 01:07:13 -!- FossilCodger has joined. 01:08:09 <FossilCodger> Hi, somebody, there is anybody available? (Excuse me for the bad Englis...) 01:08:35 <Bike> sup 01:09:25 <FossilCodger> Hello Bike! 01:10:44 <FossilCodger> I joined to this IRC, just because I would like to announce, that I created a new programming language, named "mau". 01:11:55 <Bike> you should write an article for it on the wiki, probably. we get notices of wiki edits here. 01:12:01 <FossilCodger> The novatime newest, 15th release downloadable at this link: http://parancssor.info/mau/mau15release.tar.bz2 01:12:31 <oerjan> well we would, if HackEgo wasn't abducted by evil scientists 01:13:28 <FossilCodger> Okay, just my biggest problem that I have very low english knowledge! I understand enough good the written english documentation, but my knowledge sure not enough good to written articles.. 01:14:11 <FossilCodger> And my language is not the English, but the Hungarian. The documentation of my "mau" interpreter language is more as 200 pages in odt format. 01:14:33 <Bike> you might be better off converting it to pdf or something 01:14:52 <Bike> but, you may as well make a page. then people can proofread it and such 01:14:58 <elliott> your english seems pretty good to me 01:15:27 <madbr> you should make a page on the esolang wiki -> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 01:15:36 <FossilCodger> This language very usable for serious, daily scripting work, I use it daily, under 64 bits Linux operating system, but in the above download link available the source code, and can compile it for 32 bits systems too. 01:15:50 <oerjan> we just need to gently persuade b_jonas to translate it, should be easy -----### 01:16:27 <Bike> so what's esoteric about it 01:16:38 <elliott> wow, these example programs are pretty great. 01:17:11 <elliott> is … actually part of the syntax? :D 01:18:27 <Bike> ah yes. seeing the esotericism 01:18:59 <FossilCodger> Hi, friends, the parancssor.info is my own domain. The hungarian word "parancssor" mean in English: "commandline". 01:19:32 <FossilCodger> In this subforum: http://parancssor.info/forum/index.php?board=20.0 is more topic with USABLE, usefull mau programs! 01:21:07 <FossilCodger> And in the downloadable package you can find more example programs, for ekzample the "vidir" programs in mau language! 01:21:33 <FossilCodger> The original vidir written in Perl, but I created it in mau too. 01:23:01 <FossilCodger> An example for a cycle in mau: {| 26 ?c #s@s[[{|}]][#c@k]; /; |} 01:25:03 <FossilCodger> The above example is a cycle, which run 26 times, and print a character in every first string from the @s stringarray. It print from every string the character which has the index in the @k unsigned char variable. 01:27:41 <FossilCodger> here are an example program whit english comments, excuse me for the bad grammar: 01:27:43 <FossilCodger> !mau // maudir program. // Author: Viola Zoltán, violazoli@gmail.com // This program created in the programming language named "mau". That programming language created by I, Viola Zoltán, too. // Licence GPL, boot. // Constans: #s@P="/tmp"; // Path for the temporary file for the editing with the text editor in the $EDITOR environment variable #c@c='-; // character for the empty spaces of pidstring #c@p=6; // max length of th 01:28:07 <FossilCodger> Hm, not successed... too long for the IRC... 01:31:16 <FossilCodger> Okay, now I created to my forum an english section, and now already available in them the first mau example program - the vidir in mau language - with english comments! The link to this subforum: http://parancssor.info/forum/index.php?topic=121.0 01:31:39 <madbr> do you have a page describing the language in english? 01:33:32 <FossilCodger> @madbr: sorry, not, because I not have enough good english! As I wrote above, I created now a subforum, and in that now available a long example, but I cannot translate the full >200 page documentation... 01:33:32 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list 01:36:22 <madbr> right, 200 pages is kinda long 01:36:38 <madbr> but it might be cool to have just some kind of broad intro 01:37:24 <FossilCodger> If would be lot of peoples having interest to the mau language, of course I try translate the cheaf parts of the syntax, usability, other needed knowledge, but it will very bad in the English grammar, therefore I need somebody to correct my bad english text! 01:39:29 <madbr> it should be good practice for getting better at that :D 01:39:45 <FossilCodger> This language support all types of the C, - signed/unsigned char/int/longint, float, double, long double, string, and other string designed for UTF-8 encoded characters, arrays... 01:40:53 <madbr> what's its design goal? 01:40:57 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:41:16 <FossilCodger> It has lot of variants for cycles, switch, it can handle bitfields... 01:41:32 <FossilCodger> The slogan: "The programming language with efficient line noise" 01:41:35 <madbr> cycles? 01:42:00 <FossilCodger> cycles, as ekzample "for" in the "c". 01:42:05 <madbr> oh, loops :D 01:42:40 <FossilCodger> Just in the mau it is not named "for", but {| or {( or other symbol variants. 01:43:14 <FossilCodger> Oh, yes, eh, English... Yes, LOOPS, f*ck my crazy mind... 01:43:40 <FossilCodger> Yes, my english knowledge is under the ass... 01:45:59 <madbr> is it a bit like APL? 01:46:55 <FossilCodger> If somebody ready to correct my bad Enlglish, I translate the documentation. In this case, send me email to this: violazoli at gmail point com. 01:47:12 <FossilCodger> I dont know APL. 01:48:04 <FossilCodger> My goal, that I have my own programming language, because I have like and interest to creating it, and that this language is a strictly type language. 01:48:05 <madbr> apl is famous for using a bunch of rare hard to type characters, and having lots of special operators (for doing operations on arrays) 01:48:38 <FossilCodger> In every function strictly, which variable type usable. 01:49:09 <FossilCodger> Not as in the Bash or other common scripting language. My casting operator is the "#". 01:51:12 <madbr> so it's easy to do very compact programs in apl because the operators will do whole loops for you 01:51:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:53:29 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:53:49 <FossilCodger> #c = unsigned char 01:53:56 <FossilCodger> #C = signed char 01:54:04 <FossilCodger> #i = unsigned short int 01:54:12 <FossilCodger> #I = signed short int 01:54:18 <FossilCodger> #l = unsigned int 01:54:24 <FossilCodger> #L = signed int 01:54:34 <FossilCodger> #g = unsigned long long 01:54:41 <FossilCodger> #G = signed long long 01:54:45 <FossilCodger> #f = float 01:54:49 <FossilCodger> #d = double 01:54:56 <FossilCodger> #D = long double 01:55:00 <FossilCodger> #s = string 01:55:15 <FossilCodger> #u = UTF-8 encoded char 01:55:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:55:35 <FossilCodger> #U = string from UTF-8 encoded chars 01:55:56 <madbr> do you have structs or objects? 01:57:09 <FossilCodger> Not yet, but planning. I will enlarge my language to OOP. But not now, because first I create my own regexp implementation. This will usefull and necessary to the objectorientad parts... 01:57:40 <FossilCodger> But mau has function, and every function has own namespace. 01:58:12 <madbr> it has functions? but can you store a whole function inside a variable? 01:59:06 <FossilCodger> And the mau has built-in "variables" for the directory structure, and inputfiles, outputfiles, stacks... 01:59:35 <madbr> does it have arrays? 01:59:35 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 02:00:34 <FossilCodger> excuse me I dont understand your question. Of course, variables can handle only datas. But in a #l type variable you can put a label of a function! 02:00:56 <FossilCodger> In the mau, almost every things can to be indirect. 02:02:23 <FossilCodger> For example, you has a subrutine labeled with §in. Now, yo type: #g@c=§in; And later: »#g@c; this is a jump to the label which are in the #g@c variable. Indirect jumping. 02:02:59 <elliott> madbr means "array" as in "int x[5] = ..." in C 02:03:15 <FossilCodger> Yes, arrays available in the mau. All single type has its arrays too. For ekzample: 02:03:32 <FossilCodger> #c@c - this is a single variable, unsigned char. 02:04:01 <FossilCodger> #c@c[index] - this is an array of unsigned chars. 02:04:20 <madbr> mhm 02:04:29 <FossilCodger> #s@s="This is a single string variable constans"; 02:04:31 <madbr> and can you change the size of arrays once they are created? 02:05:13 <FossilCodger> #s@s[[arrayindex]][stringindex] - this is a character of a string from a stringarray. 02:07:12 <FossilCodger> After creation of the stringarray, the size not changeable yet, but if the mau community would like this possibility, I built it, no problem... :) 02:07:36 <FossilCodger> But the strings automatically grow up if necessary. For ekzample: 02:09:22 <FossilCodger> #s@a="string"; This string is from 6 characters. Now you do: #s@a[8]=g; You now probed giving the "g" character to the 8th place of the string. This place momently no exist, but this is no problem, the string grow up to the 8th characters. 02:09:36 <Bike> What fills the void? 02:11:17 <madbr> "but can you store a whole function inside a variable?" -> some languages let you do that 02:11:30 <madbr> you can more or less create whole new functions real time 02:11:57 <FossilCodger> In the mau available 2 string types. The "common" has the #s casting operator. In the above case, the void places imply random memory trash. But the second string type, whith the #U casting operator - this is designed for the UTF-8 encoded characters - strictly fill up the void places with spaces. 02:14:39 <FossilCodger> I already use the mau daily, because I use my LFS-based Linux with the DWM window manager, and I wrote/created my statusbar program in the mau. And the menu program for the DWM, exist in mau too. And my gmail watcher program is written in mau, too. And my english-hungarian dictionary too... 02:15:41 <FossilCodger> And my own colored listener program in place of the "ls", written in mau, too. And the "vidir" clone in mau, too. 02:18:52 <FossilCodger> And the mau has built-in QuickSort routine/function. 02:20:14 <FossilCodger> The mau also PLUGINABLE! The (sorry, hungarian language...) documentation has fully knowledgebase chapter about, how can you write plugins to the mau interpreter in C/C++ language! 02:20:29 <madbr> practical 02:21:02 <madbr> probably the only esoteric language to have that, ever :D 02:21:09 <FossilCodger> With this methode, you can see the mau as only a skeleton to a fully-featured interpreter language, and to them you can create your OWN programming language! 02:21:56 <FossilCodger> Of course, all/every built-in mau command/function REWRITABLE, you can redefine its token with your plugins! 02:23:38 -!- tswett has joined. 02:23:42 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 02:23:43 -!- tswett has joined. 02:24:05 <FossilCodger> Excuse me, I hope that I am no a smart alec too, but I think, that in the esoteric-group of the existing programming language, the mau is the GOD, because this is a VERY USABLE language! 02:24:36 <madbr> esoteric languages are rarely designed for usability 02:25:35 <FossilCodger> For example the brainfuck? 02:25:58 <Bike> yes, the brainfuck's design goal was as small a compiler as possible. 02:26:03 <FossilCodger> Otherwise I tell you, that the mau has built-in brainfuck-interpreter too... 02:26:42 <madbr> many are designed for pure mindfuck power, to expand your mind on what can be a computer language 02:27:02 <FossilCodger> Brainfuck is interest, yes. But Not usable for the daily work. I like it, but not usable for a fast scripting work. The mau yes. 02:27:29 <madbr> my favorite in this "mind expanding" category is unlambda: http://esolangs.org/wiki/unlambda 02:28:57 <FossilCodger> Okay, but my goal was not the mind expanding. I am a novelist. And for my sci-fi stories needed a new programming language. I created it. And, I planned it that it should be an usable tool for my daily linux work too. 02:29:42 <FossilCodger> The numeric constans in the mau: 02:29:54 <FossilCodger> begin 0-9: decimal constans 02:30:06 <FossilCodger> begin with o or O: octal constans 02:30:30 <FossilCodger> begin with $: hexadecimal, for ekzample #fc or $FCe2 02:30:50 <Sgeo> As long as 0 isn't used as the octal indicator I'm happy. 02:30:54 <FossilCodger> begin with %: binary constans. %10111011101 02:30:57 <madbr> tw 02:31:07 <madbr> yeah does anyone still use octal? 02:31:16 <coppro> madbr: yes 02:31:23 <coppro> chmod 644 02:31:24 <Bike> yes. numbers starting with 0 being octal is obnoxious, is all. 02:31:29 <madbr> oh yeah chmod 02:31:53 <FossilCodger> abcd....xABCD...X: an unsigned character, the ASCII code of the character. 02:31:56 <madbr> yeah starting with 0 producing octal is like... automatic non-obvious bugs 02:32:04 <Bike> FossilCodger: not unicode? 02:32:13 <FossilCodger> ??? 02:32:48 <Bike> you said "ASCII code". 02:32:59 <FossilCodger> The unicode sequences is multibytes. 02:33:07 <Bike> Ok. 02:33:13 <FossilCodger> Ah, I already understand your question! 02:34:05 <FossilCodger> #c@c=a; - in this case you give the ASCII code of "a" to the unsigned char variable named @c. 02:35:25 <FossilCodger> #u@a="ω"; - in this case you give to the UTF-8 character variable named @a, the byte sequences of the UTF-8 encoded multibyte character ω. 02:35:27 <Sgeo>  02:36:23 <Sgeo> Why was I able to copy/paste an image? 02:36:31 <Sgeo> Since when does img's alt do that? 02:37:02 <Bike> that is a square 02:37:05 <Bike> well, rectangle 02:37:10 <FossilCodger> I cannot give to you answer, I am newbie in the IRC. 02:37:54 <FossilCodger> This can to be a function name in the mau: 02:37:55 <FossilCodger> „ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ” // Om Ma Ni Pe Me Hung 02:38:23 <FossilCodger> As you can see, the function names can has any UTF-8 encoded characters. 02:38:34 <Sgeo> Bike: that is a vulcan hand salute 02:38:47 <Bike> vulcans have weird hands. 02:40:02 <FossilCodger> Function names should give between the „ and ” symbols. 02:40:15 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28czh2/announcing_unicode_70/ 02:40:33 <FossilCodger> For ekzample, a function named with the Sarasvati hindu godness, mahadevi: 02:40:33 <FossilCodger> „सरस्वती” 02:41:33 <FossilCodger> Or, a function, named (dedicated) the Loved One singerin, the hebrew Ofra Haza: 02:41:35 <FossilCodger> „עפרה חזה” // Ofra Haza függvénye 02:41:51 <FossilCodger> They all are valid function names in the mau. 02:41:56 <Sgeo> U+F809324230B034C43DA9123880EE8034588A8340994858CFD841351: BEAR JUGGLING SIX DIFFERENTLY-SIZED MELONS WHILE WEARING BEANIE WITH LOPSIDED PROPELLER 02:44:00 <Sgeo> Ok Chrome, you obviously have a font that supports PILE OF POO because that's exactly what I see in my address bar right now 02:44:35 <FossilCodger> Levitating man... superfluous. The Unicode implement all useless shit. 02:47:24 <FossilCodger> First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode committee is untrustly, the 4 bytes will not enough lot, because I see the all superfluous trash will implemented to the unicode. 02:48:31 <Bike> i thought the point of utf-8 was not fixing a length. 02:49:13 <coppro> < FossilCodger> First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode 02:49:17 <coppro> bah 02:49:28 <coppro> `addquote <FossilCodger> First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode committee is untrustly, the 4 bytes will not enough lot, because I see the all superfluous trash will implemented to the unicode. 02:49:50 <FossilCodger> UTF-8 is novatimes max 4 bytes, but in the first time it was 6 bytes planned. 02:50:24 <FossilCodger> The UTF-8 structure can expandable to maximum 8 bytes, as I know. 02:50:54 <elliott> I think "novatimes" should be adopted as an actual english word. 02:51:17 <Bike> what's it mean, i can't tell 02:51:20 <Bike> "now"? 02:51:25 <madbr> sounds like a medicine brand 02:51:34 <FossilCodger> In this times. 02:52:28 <madbr> "these days"? 02:53:11 <FossilCodger> novatimes=nowadays, recently 02:53:41 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:54:32 <FossilCodger> The mau can special variables for the benchmarks, too. 02:54:35 <elliott> it's a good word. 02:54:50 <coppro> where did we find this guy? 02:55:02 <Bike> they came in a few hours ago to talk about t heir esolang. 02:55:18 <madbr> just logged on and started talking yes 02:55:32 <FossilCodger> I am here yet. 02:56:19 <FossilCodger> Just I have lot of difficulity in the English, I am sorry & excuse me. 02:56:51 <madbr> no problem 02:58:41 <FossilCodger> And the mau has the "test" function of the bash, too. 02:58:54 <FossilCodger> And the mau can handle streams, too. 02:59:41 <FossilCodger> For ekzample, you can open a file in the memory (RAM), you write to them the records, and if finish, you handle the memory area as a string... 03:01:06 <FossilCodger> This mau command: ||| #s@a t; cut the @a string to parts into the string-array named "t". 03:01:51 <FossilCodger> (This is akin function to the "tr"...) 03:04:53 <FossilCodger> Hi, guys, has the esolangs community an own forum? 03:06:03 <FossilCodger> Because if not, I welcome open in my forum a part for the eso languages. This domain paid for the next 5 years already... 03:07:17 <elliott> it used to have a forum. now we just use the wiki 03:09:29 <FossilCodger> Okay Elliot, then, if you think that this is a good idea, write to the wiki please, that the official forum of the esolangs is in the parancssor.info/forum/... - to the "..." I write the name what you would like, and open that subforum now! 03:13:21 <Sgeo> The heck...? http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/28ffsc/world_cup_json_rails_backend_for_a_scraper_that/ 03:13:28 <Sgeo> Why was that posted to /r/Python 03:29:22 <FossilCodger> Goodbye, I logout! 03:30:00 -!- FossilCodger has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:30:24 <Sgeo> Apparently Go uses global variables a bunch by default 03:30:31 <Sgeo> And was just told 'you don't have to use them' 03:37:01 <Sgeo> (And possibly most don't use the default global variables, but it's still concerning) 03:52:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:56:34 <madbr> Hmm 03:56:46 <madbr> what's the cool thing to put in a fungeroid 03:57:35 <madbr> It's going to be hard to have a "write to program/read from program at X/Y" instruction tho 03:58:18 <madbr> unless it takes a line number for Y and a string for X 03:58:52 <zzo38> Do you know how 16-bit samples are stored in a .XM music? 04:00:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:03:04 <madbr> I haven't read the specs for XM 04:03:33 <madbr> for s3m and IT there's a table of pointers to sample headers in the file header 04:04:17 <madbr> I can't remember what IT does from there but for s3m this header contains a pointer to the sample data 04:04:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:06:13 <madbr> can't remember if the sample data was unsigned or signed but I think it's the reverse from the usual 04:06:36 <madbr> (and might be different between 8 and 16 bits) 04:14:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:15:51 <zzo38> The specs for XM do have a few things missing actually but I have been able to fill in those missing things. Someone else already made a version with many mistakes corrected, but still has a few mistakes. I know where samples are stored, but not the format of 16-bit samples. 04:16:05 <zzo38> 8-bit samples in XM are encoded as delta values. 04:25:00 -!- Bike has joined. 04:33:01 <zzo38> I am trying to extend AmigaMML with such feature. 04:35:09 <zzo38> I also want to add a percussion synthesizer; do you have advice how to do such a things? 04:36:23 <madbr> depends how realistic you want it to be 04:36:59 <madbr> and what hardware you're targetting 04:38:06 <madbr> drums are essentially a large impulse + some noise going through a whole bunch of bandpass filters (like 40 bandpass filters in parallel) 04:38:18 <zzo38> I don't really care much to be realistic but want it good quality nevertheless. 04:39:09 <madbr> kick can be done with essentially a wave going down in pitch fast 04:40:13 <madbr> hihat is a mess of high frequencies... on an FM synth you can do them by setting osc frequencies super high and playing some ridiculously high note and letting it create some frequency mess due to aliasing... but this doesn't work on non-fm synths 04:40:26 <madbr> failing that, just some noise isn't bad 04:41:24 <madbr> snare is kinda touchy, it needs some lower frequency thump (essentially low frequency noice) BEFORE the high frequency SHHH from the snares 04:42:02 <madbr> they cannot happen at the same time, it's thump THEN the Shhhh part 04:42:35 <madbr> on C64 they do this by using one channel and alternating it between a wave (usually square) and noise 04:42:48 <madbr> so it's kindof a tone sequencer 04:42:52 <zzo38> OK, although FM synthesis is actually also one of the synthesizers I intend to add. The two I have already implemented are simple waveforms (a sum of square waves (adjustable duty), saw, and triangle), and PADsynth (full the amplitude table with a sum of bell curves, the phase table with random values, and then perform an inverse Fourier transform), and the two I plan to add are FM synth and percussion synth. 04:43:31 <zzo38> It can already load external samples, but I also want to allow the .MML text file to be able to stand alone. 04:43:34 <madbr> this page has some more ideas: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb02/articles/synthsecrets0202.asp 04:43:44 <zzo38> OK 04:44:21 <madbr> essentially every drum is its own special snowflake 04:51:05 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 04:51:30 <Bike> can't hear their shapes 05:03:57 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:16:53 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:35:24 -!- tertu has joined. 06:06:48 <Sgeo> I wonder if Go's defer has any advantages over Haskell solutions to similar problems 06:07:04 <Sgeo> I guess it's more explicit that something will be closed, rather than being implied by the usage 06:11:41 <zzo38> I have once used the (just) overtone scale in writing music. 06:19:49 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 06:19:49 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 06:23:48 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:23:52 -!- variable has joined. 06:23:52 -!- heroux has joined. 06:24:14 -!- variable has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 06:26:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:27:42 -!- variable has joined. 06:27:59 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:29:53 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:31:40 -!- conehead has joined. 06:52:16 -!- irenge has joined. 06:53:57 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:11:14 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:19:26 <Sgeo_> And in today's issue of things that would not be necessary if Go had generics: https://github.com/justinas/alice 07:24:39 <olsner> looks a lot like (.) 07:28:26 <Sgeo_> It petty much is, except iiuc you can't really write a typesafe (.) 07:29:44 <elliott> "Matt Silverlock's use.go snippet came closest to what I wanted. My only complaint is that the ordering of handlers here is counter-intuitive. Reading the chaining code makes it obvious that 07:29:47 <elliott> use(myApp, csrf, logging, recovery) 07:29:50 <elliott> is equivalent to this code: 07:29:53 <elliott> recovery(logging(csrf(myApp))) 07:29:55 <elliott> and this request cycle: 07:29:58 <elliott> recovery -> logging -> csrf -> myApp 07:30:00 <elliott> So, a reversed order from what you've written in your code." 07:30:03 <elliott> haha, the opposite complaint people make about (.) 07:40:43 -!- password2 has joined. 08:25:23 -!- irenge has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:34:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:37:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:37:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:42:20 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 09:03:56 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:20:37 -!- password2 has joined. 09:21:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:34:21 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]). 09:34:40 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:36:08 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:01:47 -!- brandonsons|2 has joined. 10:05:55 -!- brandonsons has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:12:26 <Taneb> Help I am being attacked by imposter syndrome 10:14:34 -!- boily has joined. 10:16:04 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:41 <mroman> Did you mean: Help, I have imposter syndrome. 10:18:48 <mroman> If so, please press 1. 10:18:51 <mroman> If not, please press 2. 10:19:08 <zzo38> 4 10:19:15 <Taneb> 1 probably 10:19:18 <mroman> To ask for information about how much this call costs, press 3. 10:19:24 <mroman> To donate 1 Mio. dollar press 4. 10:19:45 <zzo38> To donate using what account? 10:20:18 <Taneb> Got 90% on a programming theory exam and I don't feel like I deserve it when one of my friends failed it 10:20:22 <zzo38> Push 0 (OPER) 10:20:26 <mroman> It will be charged to your IRC bill 10:20:39 <Taneb> Hang on, he didn't fail it 10:20:46 <Taneb> Well, that makes me feel better :) 10:21:10 <zzo38> Why should you don't feel like you deserve it if one of your friends failed it? 10:21:45 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 10:21:58 <Taneb> zzo38, because I think he's a better programmer than I am 10:22:17 <mroman> Maybe you're mistaken about his skills then. 10:22:21 <mroman> Or he had a bad day. 10:22:53 <mroman> Taneb: Did you cheat on the test? 10:23:10 <zzo38> Taneb: O, OK. Well, but it might not necessarily have to do with the exam. 10:23:18 <kyhwana> /w/w 6 10:23:20 <kyhwana> hrf 10:23:32 <mroman> I think people who cheat on tests don't deserve to pass them. 10:24:05 <Taneb> mroman, I did not cheat on the test 10:24:27 <Taneb> If I had I would have got more than 90%, or I would have thought 90% was high enough to be suspicious and got less than 90% 10:24:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:25:10 <mroman> You'd care about your mark being suspicious if you cheat to good? 10:25:34 <mroman> Even if it's susicious. If they can't prove it, they can't get you ;P 10:25:38 <mroman> *suspicious 10:25:43 <mroman> *too 10:26:24 <Taneb> Well, if it's not suspicious they won't look so hard 10:26:41 <mroman> What would they look at? 10:26:45 <mroman> You already wrote the test? 10:27:13 <Taneb> I don't know 10:27:18 <Taneb> I am not clever enough to cheat 10:27:19 <mroman> They can't do anything once you've left the exam room I think 10:27:37 <mroman> I guess I'd be clever enough 10:27:46 <mroman> but it'd be a nervous wreck the whole exam 10:27:58 <mroman> My body would literally be shaking if I were to cheat 10:28:54 <zzo38> I have only twice tried to cheat on a test. In one case it was on paper, and I tried to use a "coughing code" to tell everyone else in the room, the answers. Since I have not told anyone about this ahead of time, I don't think anyone knew (and the teacher ask if I needed some water to drink). The other is on computer; once I reached the final question I tried to cheat off of the person next to me, who as it turned out was trying to cheat off of me 10:29:39 <Taneb> You seem to have pretty poor luck at cheating 10:30:18 <mroman> I'm too scared to cheat :( 10:30:44 <zzo38> In the first case I described, I didn't really do it to cheat, but because I wanted to figure out if it is possible and what the reactions are! 10:38:12 <KingOfKarlsruhe> i never did my homework, so i said "x equals 5", it was in 90% of all cases acceptable by my math teacher 10:38:37 <KingOfKarlsruhe> we had to say the results 10:40:03 <Phantom_Hoover> the way university maths questions are marked is: 10:40:20 <Phantom_Hoover> - look at the start, see if it makes sense 10:40:28 <Phantom_Hoover> - look at the end, see if the result is correct 10:40:43 <Phantom_Hoover> - assume the middle is sound and award full marks 10:48:51 <b_jonas> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.xkcd.com/759/ 10:49:11 <b_jonas> whose title text is "Handy exam trick: when you know the answer but not the correct derivation, derive blindly forward from the givens and backward from the answer, and join the chains once the equations start looking similar. Sometimes the graders don't notice the seam." 10:50:37 <zzo38> Especially on multiple-choice tests I did sometimes work backward from the answer. 10:55:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/602-Test-Time.html 11:03:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *fwomp*). 11:04:02 <mroman> Phantom_Hoover: I'm kinda counting on that :) 11:04:18 <mroman> although our math lecturer does a better job than that 11:04:22 <mroman> My result was correct 11:04:51 <mroman> but he said I made an assumption that just coincidentally lead me to the correct result 11:04:51 <mroman> and thus, it's wrong :) 11:06:49 <zzo38> Yes I have done this kind of "short-circuit" test 11:09:56 <zzo38> Stuff written on that article is good 11:10:49 <mroman> How can an exam be racially biased o_O 11:10:58 <mroman> Did they ask questions only white people can answer 11:14:22 -!- jj2baile has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:14:33 <mroman> but yeah 11:14:41 <mroman> short-circuiting 11:14:48 <mroman> I thought everybody does that too anyway 11:15:13 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:15:53 <mroman> There are even questions where you can say "Well, I don't know the exact answer, but I know it can't be B,C,D so the only option left is A anyway) 11:16:25 -!- jj2baile has joined. 11:16:43 -!- coppro has joined. 11:17:26 <Taneb> mroman, my multiple choice exams have all had E) None of the above :( 11:18:39 <mroman> If I were a teacher I'd do that too 11:19:07 <Taneb> And like 3 questions were E! 11:19:31 <mroman> also F) I don't know 11:19:34 <mroman> and punish mistakes ;) 11:19:57 <mroman> which makes multiple choice questions actually harder 11:20:02 <mroman> although everybode seems to think they are easier 11:20:12 <mroman> not only don't you get the point for the question 11:20:15 <mroman> you also LOOSE one 11:20:28 <mroman> so not knowing an answer correctly costs you two points instead of just one 11:21:17 <mroman> I'd rather it's not a multiple choice question and just loose a single point for not knowing it correctly 11:21:28 <b_jonas> sometimes dereferencing syntax in C++ or perl reminds me to the intercal rabbit ear syntax 11:22:32 <mroman> Taneb: A funny variation is actually 11:22:37 <mroman> "How many options are correct?" 11:23:19 <mroman> Instead of marking the correct options you just have to write how many of them are correct 11:23:55 <int-e> A) 1 B) 2 C) 3 or less D) all of the above 11:33:09 <mroman> lol 11:33:15 <mroman> so if A,B are true 11:33:17 <mroman> C must be too 11:33:27 <mroman> and i C is true 11:33:31 <mroman> and A B 11:33:32 <mroman> then B too 11:33:40 <mroman> *D 11:39:16 <int-e> to be more precise, I meant: A) exactly 1, B) exactly 2, C) 3 or less, D) all of the above 11:40:27 <b_jonas> E) 31604,10001,714,108 11:40:48 <mroman> but 11:40:52 <mroman> 1 is 3 or less 11:41:17 <int-e> and the question is "how many options are correct?" 11:41:33 <mroman> so? 11:41:34 <int-e> and the desired outcome is that there is no consistent set of answers. 11:41:41 <mroman> ah 11:45:32 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:07:30 -!- yorick has joined. 12:09:06 -!- Guest767 has changed nick to Gregor. 12:10:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:17:00 <zzo38> Is this much good so far? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gentzen#Typeclass_definition_syntax 12:28:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:28:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 13:03:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:05:16 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:05:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:18:50 <oerjan> <zzo38> [...] Since I have not told anyone about this ahead of time, I don't think anyone knew [...] <-- i'm going to guess that anyone intelligent enough to guess you were doing a code and figuring it out didn't need your help anyway. 13:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:30:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:32:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:34:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:36:03 -!- mihow has joined. 14:48:17 -!- tswett has joined. 14:48:17 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:48:17 -!- tswett has joined. 14:50:38 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:57:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:59:18 <impomatic> There doesn't appear to be a JavaScript Unix password cracker anywhere :-( 14:59:33 -!- Bike has joined. 15:01:47 <impomatic> Running John the Ripper... 15:01:50 <impomatic> gcry:BbDSwh.NQHGj6:1004:102:Cray Analyst:/u/gcry:/bin/sh 15:12:42 <FreeFull> Why would you do javascript? 15:12:49 <FreeFull> You need speed for password cracking 15:18:23 -!- edwardk has joined. 15:18:29 <ion> But JavaScript has 2× the performance of native applications. http://fratti.ch/2webscale4u/ 15:20:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:28:00 <impomatic> EgoBot should have a cracker 15:30:24 <impomatic> `crack cray:1zd8eAacKa9J6:101:17:Cray:/usr/cray: 15:31:54 <ion> EgoBot should have a person of Caucasian descent 15:36:49 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:02:41 -!- lollo64it has joined. 16:19:01 <mroman> I don't accept the premisse that anything that is interpreted can possibly run faster than native code 16:19:18 <mroman> I also don't acept the premisse that anything executed on a vm can possibly run faster than native code 16:20:03 <mroman> unless 16:20:07 <mroman> does 2x the speed mean 16:20:19 <mroman> if native takes 2s then it takes 4s? 16:21:32 <Taneb> mroman, an amazing interpreter can beat native code generated by a crap compiler 16:21:46 <mroman> Yeah 16:21:53 <mroman> but nobody said anything about that 16:21:59 <mroman> it runs twice as fast as native code 16:22:11 <Taneb> What was that said about? 16:22:52 <mroman> being faster than native code means for me, that you are faster than the CPU can execute code 16:25:01 <mroman> but anyway 16:25:12 <mroman> Just look at that webscalability 16:25:14 <mroman> that's just wow 16:26:05 <mroman> hu 16:26:30 <mroman> that webpage has apparentely been seized by some federal agency of some country . 16:31:34 <mroman> I should do a mockup. 16:34:00 <impomatic> Argh, css shadows on body text :-( 16:35:05 <int-e> shady characters 16:52:22 <mroman> http://mroman.ch/ngbl/ 17:02:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:20:33 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 17:38:15 -!- password2 has joined. 17:44:15 <mroman> hm 17:44:20 <mroman> i should probably replace : with IS 17:55:25 <mroman> there we go 17:55:43 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 17:59:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:01:33 <mroman> Now with EXISTS, IS and ASSIGNED_TO 18:01:55 <impomatic> Some of these passwords are cracking really easily. service -> smile : shutdown -> bedtime and a few user passwords like mary, tricia, etc. 18:03:35 <impomatic> Poor passwords, considering the password file is from a Ministry of Defence machine :-) They should know better. 18:06:44 <mroman> I hope that's not your job and your bragging about it on the IRC 18:06:50 <mroman> *you're 18:07:19 <mroman> oh wait 18:07:22 <mroman> not bragging 18:07:32 <mroman> what's plaudern in english 18:08:00 <mroman> s/bragging/chatting 18:09:35 -!- conehead has joined. 18:10:08 <int-e> chatting 18:10:27 <int-e> There's no "bragging" connotation that I'm aware of. 18:10:43 <int-e> sorry 18:10:53 <mroman> Yeah 18:10:59 <mroman> I know that bragging is the wrong word 18:11:01 <int-e> I should stop replying to the last thing said without reading context. 18:11:11 <mroman> int-e: Don't worry 18:11:16 <mroman> I tend to do that a lot too :D 18:11:37 <mroman> tltr 18:11:39 <mroman> too lazy to read 18:11:51 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to fcrawl. 18:15:15 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:15:34 <impomatic> mroman: no, don't work for the MoD. Bought an ex-MOD computer which hasn't been wiped and trying to find the root password so I can use it properly. 18:17:01 <Bicyclidine> That... what? When's this thing from? 18:17:38 <mroman> Yes, I'd like to have root access to your long range missiles. 18:19:00 <mroman> either that or a little house in some neat state . 18:19:06 <mroman> :D 18:19:41 <mroman> Wyoming sounds nice 18:21:22 <impomatic> Bought about a dozen ex MoD computers a few years ago. I've only just got this one back. (It's too big, so I had to put it in storage for a while until I got the garage converted into an office) 18:21:48 <mroman> they are pretty old I assume? 18:21:52 <mroman> 1990? 18:21:56 <mroman> or pre 90? 18:22:04 <Bicyclidine> i'm just surprised they don't wipe everything as a matter of policy 18:22:16 <mroman> Yeah 18:22:19 <mroman> It's easy to do 18:22:26 <mroman> even little companies do that 18:23:08 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 18:23:21 <elliott> you're assuming the military is more competent than the average company 18:23:28 <mroman> well 18:23:30 <mroman> .... 18:23:32 <mroman> yeah? 18:23:42 <Bicyclidine> mroman aren't you american 18:23:46 <mroman> that's what a normal non-us-citizen like me would think 18:23:49 <fcrawl> mroman is swiss right 18:23:52 <Bicyclidine> oh darn 18:24:06 <elliott> did you know that america is the only country in the world where things are bad 18:24:14 <mroman> although I suspect it's not much more secure here ;) 18:24:32 <Bicyclidine> elliott: i was just asking cos i'd give the example of http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/17/usa.oliverburkeman1 18:24:33 <mroman> elliott: I've heard something like that 18:24:52 <elliott> did I just commit some kind of poe's law of smoke europeanism 18:25:00 <elliott> ... 18:25:01 <elliott> smug. 18:25:07 <elliott> I don't know how I got "smoke" out of that. 18:25:21 <fcrawl> smoke europeanism everyday 18:25:22 <Bicyclidine> anyway, i would have expected the military to do something else if they don't follow basic security, like for example, just explode them 18:25:34 <Bicyclidine> or dump them in the ocean, a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHASE 18:26:19 <elliott> US nuclear weapons found out to actually just be old fireworks in fancy containers 18:29:28 <Bicyclidine> i was explaining fission bombs yesterday and it was kind of awkward having to say that it basically boils down to hitting plutonium really hard 18:38:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:38:53 -!- tromp has joined. 18:47:15 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:49:40 <impomatic> mroman: they range from mid 80's to mid 90's. They range from a BBC Micro with some kind of 32-bit co-processor to an 8 processor Cray. 18:51:09 <impomatic> The place I bought them had an entire warehouse of various computers / minis / mainframes. I wish I could've bought more. 18:52:19 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to c5sper. 18:52:40 -!- c5sper has changed nick to barrucadu. 19:00:10 -!- password2 has joined. 19:38:54 -!- Froox has joined. 19:39:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:49:21 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:50:39 -!- mihow has joined. 19:52:36 <mroman> hopefully your cracking the passwords on the cray 19:54:15 <mroman> two days and I'm through with my final exams 19:54:19 <mroman> that is, if I pass :D 19:56:48 <mroman> *you're 19:57:16 <mroman> so far the "don't learn" strategy went well 19:58:37 <Bicyclidine> ? 19:58:53 <mroman> Hm? 19:59:21 <Bicyclidine> why would you not learn 19:59:35 <mroman> Because it's mostly boring bullshit 20:00:53 <Bicyclidine> i hope you're not paying too much, then. 20:01:07 <mroman> About 900 CHF a semester 20:01:26 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:01:48 <mroman> but you wouldn't really have a choice even it cost more ;) 20:01:53 <mroman> +if 20:02:27 <mroman> It's ridiculously specific stuff they'll ask 20:02:39 <mroman> like... what policy is needed to create a JAAS LoginContext 20:02:58 <Bicyclidine> I'm so glad I quit CS. 20:03:02 <fcrawl> i WISH i knew what my exam questions are going to be like 20:03:10 <olsner> mroman: a JAASLoginContextPolicy? 20:03:26 <mroman> I don't bother memorizing all those things 20:03:43 <mroman> I'm not going to learn the documentation of some Java Interface 20:03:48 <Bicyclidine> chemistry involves an annoying amount of memorization but at least it'll be most of the same memorization as fifty years ago. 20:03:54 <mroman> I hope that the lecturer included enough information about that interface in his slide 20:03:59 <mroman> (because I can bring the slides to the exam) 20:04:12 <mroman> And I'll just look-up stuff on the slides during the exam as I need to 20:04:33 <Bicyclidine> Also not under the control of some megacorp, much as Dow would like. 20:04:37 <mroman> If I have bad luck, he'll ask stuff he only mentioned in the lectures and did not document in the slides 20:04:40 <mroman> then I'm screwed 20:05:52 <mroman> or something that was only mentioned in some exercises 20:05:53 -!- MDude has joined. 20:06:32 <mroman> I don't really see how it would make me a better computer scientist by memorizing all the stupid shit they teach 20:06:36 <mroman> so I don't 20:07:58 <olsner> sounds to me like your program might not be CS at all 20:08:51 <mroman> it is. but they bloat it up with lots of java specific stuff 20:08:57 <mroman> and other stuff 20:09:12 <mroman> I'm just not interested in that 20:09:28 <MDude> But how will you be enterprise pro? 20:09:46 <mroman> Rather than memorizing the java compiler's command line options I'd like to learn something about type theory 20:10:01 <mroman> For god's sake 20:10:01 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:10:11 <mroman> what's the purpose of learning the java compiler's command line options 20:10:18 <mroman> none 20:10:20 <mroman> there's none 20:10:34 <elliott> uh, say you want to compile java 20:10:38 <olsner> you want to just learn abstract nonsense? but how will you ever *do* anything without knowing how to invoke javac? 20:10:56 <mroman> There's a freaking manual for it somewhere 20:11:13 <MDude> So when you go make Java with a bunch of bullies they won't bother you for checking the manual every once in a while. 20:11:43 <mroman> In the rare cases you actually alter the javac command line by much 20:11:45 <mroman> you'll look it up 20:11:58 <mroman> and by hand 20:12:04 <fcrawl> this sounds sorta, "why bother learning arithmetic if there's calculators"!! 20:12:08 <mroman> no 20:12:39 <MDude> Are you trying to say that Java is a fundamental a concept as arithmatic? 20:12:44 <MDude> *as 20:12:48 <mroman> It's more like "why bother learning arithmetic if there's a book about that documents how that works" 20:12:57 <elliott> erm. there is 20:13:06 <elliott> there are... there are lots of books about arithmetic, mroman 20:13:12 <mroman> I know. 20:13:19 <mroman> but there's a difference imo. 20:13:35 <fcrawl> i should write a book about arithmetic 20:13:37 <elliott> but... but you just analogised it to that. like, yourself. you made that comparison 20:13:46 <mroman> I know. 20:14:16 <mroman> I want to learn stuff 20:14:20 <mroman> not memorize stuff 20:14:59 <mroman> I'm tired of memorizing the syntax of a programming language every semester and then have a final exam about where you have to find the 10 syntax errors he's hidden 20:15:03 <MDude> To me, learning the details of Java in a computer science course sounds like learning the details of a particular make of car in a physics class. 20:15:18 <MDude> That's just not what it's for. 20:15:37 <elliott> ok as much as we all want to be little dijkstras, do you really want CS classes that involve: no touching computers; writing programs 20:15:41 <mroman> I'm tired of memorizing what Exceptions some Java Function throws 20:15:50 <elliott> like, do you think CS graduates should not know how to implement algorithms 20:16:12 <mroman> elliott: They should know how to implement algorithms. 20:16:25 <mroman> obviously 20:17:31 <mroman> elliott: There's a difference between teaching OOP through Java 20:17:56 <elliott> I'm not defending your curriculum, I just think your broader position is untenable 20:18:05 <mroman> and forcing your students to remember that notify() can throw a IllegalMonitorStateExecption 20:18:18 <mroman> the first one teaches concepts 20:18:46 <elliott> I don't think a CS curriculum should be theory divorced from practice as much as I don't think it should be practice divorced from theory. 20:18:47 <MDude> Not touching comptuers at all is one thing, but Java can be a bit far in the other extreme. 20:18:57 <mroman> the second one teaches where the nut A1241 is located in a Boing 717 20:19:32 <elliott> sure. I mean, I wouldn't pick Java. but it's probably not that bad a choice: it's incredibly popular, and has just enough abstraction to be able to actually implement things and not worry about memory safety. it's the least common denominator. it's certainly a shame, though 20:20:00 <mroman> It's not about the language choice actually 20:20:09 <mroman> It's more about what makes more sense teaching 20:20:28 <MDude> It's incredibly popular for reasons that have nothing to do with its sutability for CS classes. 20:20:46 <mroman> I'm not saying Java is a bad choice to teach 20:21:09 <coppro> elliott: can we somehow teach students not to crank out shitty papers for the sake of cranking out shitty papers? 20:21:14 <elliott> MDude: yes, but you know, grounding the lessons in what they have a good chance of using day-to-day afterwards isn't really that bad an idea. 20:21:29 <mroman> At that point, that you list three exceptions 20:21:39 <mroman> and ask your students which one of those are built-in in python 20:21:42 <mroman> you've gone to far 20:21:48 <mroman> *too 20:21:53 <mroman> that's my point 20:22:39 <coppro> yeah 20:24:23 <b_jonas> mroman: how about the type of exam where I give a short program with one or two plausible errors (ones that I could make when writing the program) AND the compiler error messages (from a sane compiler with sane switches) which actually explain the errors, and the students have to understand what the compiler says and tell how to fix those one or two errors? 20:25:43 <mroman> I guess that'd be ok 20:25:52 <mroman> there's no black/white I think 20:26:04 <b_jonas> sure, you need multiple types of questions on the exam 20:26:14 <olsner> reading error messages is a sorely lacking skill in my experience, they should teach that in school 20:26:33 <mroman> I'd say it's important to be able to understand compiler messages from a sane compiler 20:26:50 <b_jonas> of course this requires that you use a language that has a compiler that usually gives sane error messages 20:27:01 <mroman> I mean 20:27:11 <mroman> I'm aware of my bias due to frustration ;) 20:27:28 <mroman> already being very nimble in lot of programming languages 20:27:57 <mroman> It drives you mad to memorize what exceptions are built-in to yet another language that happens to be taught at the university 20:28:57 <mroman> I happen to know a lot of details like that about other languages 20:29:09 <mroman> just not the one they decided to teach thoroughly at their university 20:30:16 <mroman> It's not entirely bad though 20:30:22 <mroman> You can list it on your CV 20:30:26 <mroman> that you are now fluent in Java too 20:30:37 <b_jonas> mroman: besides reading the error messages, one thing I tried to teach the students is how to debug a program by inserting printf statements to print intermediate results and check manually whether they look right 20:31:03 <mroman> It just isn't what I expected from my tsudy 20:31:05 <mroman> *study 20:31:10 <mroman> that's all :) 20:31:22 <mroman> b_jonas: "teach"? 20:31:28 <mroman> That's probably the most obvious thing to do ever 20:31:35 <mroman> It's even easier than handling gdb 20:32:03 <mroman> and "tried"? 20:32:04 <b_jonas> mroman: yes. I'm mentioning the highlights here, mind you, my courses very very lousy in general. 20:32:13 <mroman> "tried" kinda has the conotation that it didn't work out well? :D 20:32:48 <b_jonas> it's hard to tell how it worked out really 20:33:48 <mroman> but yeah 20:34:00 <b_jonas> those courses weigh my conscience a bit because I might have made those mathematicians hate programming for ever, 20:34:03 <mroman> It takes experience and exercises to debug well 20:34:26 <b_jonas> though luckily it was the course for second year students where I did really badly, and second-years are supposed to be more resistant to bad teachers hopefully 20:34:29 <mroman> I notice how some people are so convinced that the error must be somewhere around line X 20:34:37 <mroman> even without having actual evidence that it's there 20:34:42 <b_jonas> well sure 20:34:44 <mroman> they just have a hunch or I don't know 20:35:01 <mroman> and they are so focused on that they don't actually check what's really going on 20:35:10 <b_jonas> one interesting episode is when I was called to find the error in a student's program, and I debugged it for like five minutes and couldn't find it, 20:35:19 <b_jonas> at which point I asked for help on irc, 20:35:31 <b_jonas> it turned out the error was a semicolon after the closing paren of a for statement 20:35:47 <b_jonas> I probably didn't notice that because that's a mistake I personally would not make 20:36:12 <mroman> ah 20:36:15 <b_jonas> but I should have noticed it from the symptoms, because I did trace the execution and did see that the loop body didn't run enough times for some reason 20:36:15 <mroman> I once wrote 20:36:20 <mroman> if(foo); dooBar(); 20:36:28 <mroman> (with a new line in between) 20:36:47 <mroman> but they obvious thing to do, when dooBar() isn't executed when you expect is 20:36:50 <mroman> is to rewrite it as 20:37:00 <mroman> print foo 20:37:16 <mroman> if(foo); dooBar 20:37:41 <mroman> that checks if you programmed the condition write 20:38:01 <mroman> and if it prints true but dooBar isn't executed 20:38:02 <b_jonas> I don't know if I'd have noticed it eventually. This was during a course so I was pressed for time and chose to ask a second pair of eyes for speedup, which was the right decision I think. 20:38:08 <mroman> it's most likely a damn semicolon somewhere :D 20:38:58 <b_jonas> in my own code, I'm more affraid of making the opposite mistake: adding an if condition, then getting distracted and forgetting to add a body, so it scopes the next statement which should always be executed 20:39:53 <b_jonas> for this reason I try to type a {} right after the closing paren of the condition unless I can type the first token of the body like immediately in the next second 20:40:09 <b_jonas> probably I should write {} _before_ I write the closing paren 20:42:05 <b_jonas> it's sort of like how you should never type 'rm *.o' in the shell left to right, for a mistake can turn it to 'rm *' -- you should either write it as '#rm *.o' then erase the '#', or write 'rm .o' then add the splat 20:42:34 <b_jonas> or better, type 'echo rm -v *.o', execute it, check the result, then remove the echo and re-run 20:45:35 <elliott> or just keep backups :P 20:46:08 <b_jonas> elliott: AND 20:46:11 <b_jonas> do both 20:46:27 <olsner> and keep the .o files in a separate directory 20:46:39 <b_jonas> olsner: and remove them with 'make clear' 20:46:49 <elliott> b_jonas: if you limit the work you can lose, then the low probability of the mistake weighted against the loss it'll incur is outweighed by the loss in productivity caused by being paranoid about everything you do 20:47:02 <b_jonas> and possibly try 'make -n clear' first, though make -n isn't a sure-fire way to do nothing 20:47:02 <elliott> everythi 20:47:04 <elliott> ng has a cost 20:47:10 <olsner> hmm, "clear"? that makes sense but I have never seen that spelling afaik 20:47:19 <b_jonas> elliott: sure, I'm always paranoid 20:47:28 <b_jonas> olsner: 'make clean' sorry 20:47:43 <elliott> b_jonas: right. so you're losing more work than you would with being fast but with very good backups 20:47:59 <elliott> because you're missing out on all the potential work you could do by effectively having more time and worrying less about deleting things 20:48:09 <b_jonas> elliott: yes 20:48:13 <b_jonas> that's true 20:49:59 <elliott> I guess this is just another form of "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" 20:51:23 <b_jonas> that's a strange interpretation of this latter statement 20:51:30 <b_jonas> interesting 20:52:23 <elliott> forgiveness i.e. "oops, I made a mistake and deleted all my files, please undo" 20:52:44 <elliott> permission i.e. "please figure out whether I am competent enough to be deleting the right files" :) 20:53:03 <elliott> permission -- check then do; forgiveness -- do then potentially recover 20:54:44 <MDude> Hmm. 20:55:12 <MDude> I'd think recovering a backup might take more time than typing a bit weird every once in a while for a specific command. 20:56:07 <mroman> gn8 20:56:31 <MDude> I'd think, though, that if you use 'rm *.o' a lot and worry about mistakinly pressing enter early, you could just make a script that does nothing but run 'rm *.o' 20:56:41 <elliott> MDude: yeah, unfortunately our undo buttons aren't that great yet. this is a perennial UI problem. however, there are rather convenient things (btrfs snapshots, say) where it's really no big deal 20:56:51 <mroman> b_jonas: that's why python has indentation :) 20:56:53 <MDude> And give it a short name. 20:56:56 <mroman> fixes a lot of these problems :D 20:56:57 <elliott> or, for a rather common method of backing up code against rm *: git reset --hard 20:57:37 <elliott> mostly, I don't personally make that mistake anywhere near often enough to care much about the hardship of restoring afterwards... 20:57:52 <MDude> Obv. the solution is to switch to the fossil filesystem. 20:58:04 <elliott> yeah, that would be nice. have you seen NILFS? 21:00:30 <MDude> No, it's been a while since I went around looking at filesystems. 21:02:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:00 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:27:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:29:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:37:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:42:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:46:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:56:24 -!- fcrawl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:57:55 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:06:36 -!- boily has joined. 22:14:45 <oerjan> bohily 22:16:41 <boily> boerjansoir. 22:17:18 <Bike> gesundhello 22:18:35 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:18:36 <boily> ~metar CYUL 22:18:36 <metasepia> CYUL 182200Z 29014G20KT 30SM FEW040TCU BKN090 OVC240 24/14 A2986 RMK TCU1AC5CI2 SLP113 DENSITY ALT 1200FT 22:18:53 <oerjan> ~metar ENVA 22:18:54 <metasepia> ENVA 182150Z 11004KT 9999 -RA FEW005 SCT012 BKN030 10/09 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 17005KT 22:19:01 <boily> how come it feels so humid outside, even if it's 24 over 14? 22:19:02 <oerjan> brr 22:19:08 -!- not^v has joined. 22:21:00 <boily> I should go and enjoy the Norwegian summer one day... 22:22:27 <olsner> why would you want to do that? 22:23:04 <boily> because it seems fun? 22:23:52 <olsner> ok 22:24:26 <olsner> maybe it is, I've only been in norway in the winter that I can remember 22:25:20 <olsner> once we went there in summer and came back with weird flatbread, coins with holes in them and oddly shaped candy 22:26:30 <boily> you had me at coins with holes. 22:29:24 <olsner> oh well, time to sleep 22:30:41 <elliott> olsner: you can't remember going in summer but you did? 22:37:16 <oerjan> hm do we have coins with holes any more 22:37:48 <oerjan> duh two of them in fact 22:38:04 <oerjan> (1 and 5 nok) 22:38:42 * oerjan isn't really up to date with the recent weird candy 22:39:13 <oerjan> as for flatbread, there are probably heaps of types 22:39:16 -!- brandonsons|2 has changed nick to brandonson. 22:42:18 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:42:48 -!- not^v has joined. 22:44:10 -!- S1 has joined. 22:46:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:49:26 <Sgeo> I can't stop thinking of Erlang/Elixir+OTP as encouraging global mutable state 22:49:32 <Sgeo> Processes seem like they're often registered with a static name 22:49:34 <shachaf> boily: it's masculine bed that makes no sense 22:49:35 -!- augur has joined. 22:50:04 <Sgeo> Should I be thinking of (some) supervisors almost like factories? Call a function with the supervisor and the supervisor can create a child and return its PID? Is that a normal flow? 22:50:15 <Sgeo> I've been wondering how to make supervised children dynamically for so long 22:50:44 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:50:48 -!- augur has joined. 22:50:56 <boily> shachaf: not my problem. our object genders are correctly and obviously assigned :P 22:51:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OCCLUSAL CHICKEN). 22:53:09 <Sgeo> Suppose I have a simple_one_for_one to do exactly this. Is that simple_one_for_one generally registered? (a.k.a global state) 22:54:55 <Sgeo> Is this the wrong place to ask Erlang questions? 22:55:08 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140608211810]). 22:55:25 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:55:29 <Bike> do any of us even know erlang 22:56:16 <Sgeo> I think Vorpal? 22:56:43 <shachaf> Vorpal isn't here 22:56:59 <shachaf> but #esoteric is more of a stream of consciousness channel for Sgeo, i think 22:57:58 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo> Is this the wrong place to ask Erlang questions? 22:58:31 <Sgeo> People here answer questions about all sorts of non-esoteric languages, so I guess I kind of figured 23:03:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:04:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 23:05:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:05:55 <brandonson> Sgeo: I always thought of globally registered supervisors/actors as a little odd, but often a necessary evil. Passing around a PID to everything seemed a bit like overkill. 23:06:30 <Sgeo> Practically every example I've seen uses them though 23:06:44 <Sgeo> What's the non-global registered way to do normal stuff? 23:06:55 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:07:44 <brandonson> Sgeo: Passing around PIDs I think. I just hate the extra parameter cause without static typing I always mix the order of params up :P 23:08:37 <Sgeo> If I'm not dynamically registering children, how do I make a gen_server that there should in most circumstances be one of and have the supervisor supervise it? 23:08:53 <Sgeo> I'm just trying to understand how passing around PIDs interacts with the supervision tree 23:12:24 <brandonson> Sgeo: You'd generally have the supervisor create children when it's created and send you the PIDs if you need them, I think. Little sketchy on my knowledge here though, I'm more familiar with akka/scala actors. 23:12:52 <Sgeo> How do I get the top level supervisor of my application? 23:17:06 <brandonson> Sgeo: It's likely the original actor that you create, so you can pass it as a parameter to anything that needs it and then store it as state. I don't think many actors need it though, you're more likely to need the PIDs for supervisors/workers that perform whatever tasks an actor needs done. 23:18:28 <brandonson> Sgeo: The top level actor/supervisor is almost always/always always your error kernel that really should never fail, so you don't want too many things touching it. 23:27:38 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:27:44 <impomatic> Is this gif adequate, or is there something I can improve? http://corewar.co.uk/32.gif 23:27:46 -!- edwardk has joined. 23:29:32 <impomatic> It demonstrates an imp moving through memory (a single instruction program that copies itself one instruction ahead, then executes the new copy) 23:29:39 <Bike> I like it. 23:29:48 <Bike> and it seems reasonably smooth 23:30:54 <brandonson> impomatic: looks good 23:33:15 <impomatic> brandonson, bike: thanks :-) I just look at it and think it could be done better, but I've no idea how! 23:33:24 <impomatic> It was made in GIMP 23:33:35 <Bike> i hear polytone knows a thing or two about gifs 23:33:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:34:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:34:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:42:47 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:46:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:50:26 -!- not^v has joined. 23:55:25 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:53 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:30 -!- mhi^ has joined. 2014-06-19: 00:00:01 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:02:17 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:03:05 <oerjan> gah i run out of moisturizing cream and the itching on my hands immediately drives me crazy 00:03:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:08:36 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 00:13:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:27:23 -!- Bike has joined. 00:31:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:39:21 -!- boily has joined. 00:40:57 <boily> back from the dentist. my mouth is now metalless! 00:42:06 <coppro> congratulations! 00:43:35 <boily> it feels incredibly weird to suddenly not have a metal wire running behind one's teeth. 00:44:20 -!- Bike has joined. 00:50:10 <coppro> yeah 00:50:48 <boily> and I had a new set of impressions made. next week I'll get a bite splint. 00:53:34 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:55:02 <boily> . o O ( I wonder what's the MRSP of a jug of alginate ) 00:58:02 <boily> heh. a quick search turns out that a pound of dental alginate runs for about 12 bucks. 01:01:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:02:21 <oerjan> ~duck MRSP 01:02:33 <oerjan> hmph 01:02:39 <oerjan> @google MRSP 01:02:40 <lambdabot> http://www.abbreviations.com/MRSP 01:02:40 <lambdabot> Title: What does MRSP stand for? 01:02:47 <oerjan> VERY USEFUL 01:02:49 -!- Bike has joined. 01:04:03 * oerjan is not sure any of those fit boily's sentence 01:04:29 <oerjan> oh wait that one 01:08:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 01:08:14 <boily> ~duck MRSP 01:08:14 <metasepia> MrsP.com is a free children's entertainment website. It stars actress Kathy Kinney as Mrs. P, a redheaded Irishwoman who reads classic children's stories from her "Magic Library." The target audience for the website is kids between the ages of 3-12, and its goal is to "encourage a lifetime love of reading." It has no advertising and no subscription fees. The site is produced by Mrs P Enterprises, LLC and was created by Kinney, who played Mimi on The 01:08:19 <boily> eeeeeeeh... 01:08:29 <oerjan> clearly what you meant 01:08:32 <oerjan> now in agora: a bug that people exploit by voting, retracting their vote, then revoting in the opposite way. 01:09:04 <boily> and the exploit being? 01:11:00 <oerjan> there's a reward for having voted opposite of the outcome of a proposal 01:11:20 <oerjan> and a bug in the phrasing that was _supposed_ to exclude retractions. 01:12:30 <boily> elegant. 01:15:53 <Sgeo> Maybe I should get back into Agora someday 01:16:30 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:17:14 <Sgeo> oerjan: which proposal? I'm curious 01:18:11 -!- Bike has joined. 01:18:18 <Sgeo> And/or was the rule in question present June 3rd? 01:19:05 <oerjan> rule 2421/3 01:20:04 <oerjan> don't recall exactly when it was amended 01:20:21 <coppro> Sgeo: you should 01:20:23 <coppro> it's happening again 01:20:31 <coppro> I'm atm writing a really good judgment 01:21:26 <oerjan> also, all proposals. 01:21:41 <Sgeo> Oh! 01:21:55 <Sgeo> It tricked me for a moment into thinking there wasn't a bug 01:22:49 <coppro> yeah, didn't it :) 01:23:11 <coppro> nobody noticed until my proposal to reenact the same text 01:26:00 <Sgeo> For some reason I was thinking I didn't touch Agora since 2008, but I got involved for a bit last year 01:28:02 <oerjan> was it during the anniversary celebration? 01:29:37 <Sgeo> Around that time but unrelated to it. Was trying an Ambassador scam 01:29:48 <oerjan> ah 01:31:02 <Sgeo> Oh, apparently Agora XX was involved in a counterscam 01:36:54 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PAIRED CHICKEN). 01:36:57 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:28:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:32:06 <Sgeo> Erlang/Tcl comparison time: Both Erlang and Tcl have mutable objects be not automatically GCed, while some immutable objects get GCed automatically 02:34:32 -!- Bike has joined. 02:35:07 <MDude> Wait, you can still go to ancient Greek gathering places? 02:36:06 <Sgeo> MDude's name is giving me flashbacks to that M person in B 02:36:21 <oerjan> MDude: http://agoranomic.org/ 02:36:43 <MDude> People are already asking me if I'm a fat guy's sense of motivation. 02:36:57 <Sgeo> huh? 02:37:19 <MDude> http://www.whompcomic.com/ 02:37:48 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:38:09 <pikhq> Sgeo: Strictly speaking, Tcl has *no* GC whatsoever. 02:38:35 <Sgeo> I thought strings were GCed? 02:38:53 <pikhq> Tcl's semantics are such that there can't be cyclic references, so for simplicity's sake it reference counts instead. 02:39:04 <Sgeo> Ah 02:39:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:40:01 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:56:10 <Sgeo> help im arguing with someone online, i don't want to be the asshole who argues with people online 02:57:29 <Bike> I t hink that you shouldn't do that, and are a bad person for doing it. 02:58:31 <Sgeo> Actually, my reluctance to argue with people who directly contradict me may be hurting me at my job 03:00:08 <oerjan> no it isn't! 03:05:46 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:09:14 -!- ^v has joined. 03:23:06 <shachaf> copumpkin: it was _Liking What You See: A Documentary_ by Ted Chiang 03:23:23 <shachaf> I'm not sure whether the text is online. 03:23:29 <shachaf> http://www.ibooksonline.com/88/Text/liking.html exists but has terrible formatting. 03:24:27 <oerjan> it exists but you don't like what you see 03:24:49 <MDude> Sgeo: Are you arguing online with someone you work with at your job? 03:25:10 <Sgeo> Separate arguments, but technically both are online 03:25:11 <MDude> Or do you just need to pracice argue so you're a better arguer at work? 03:25:30 <Sgeo> The work one's through email, this other one's through Reddit 03:25:39 <copumpkin> shachaf: ah, I see 03:25:43 <copumpkin> I didn't read it :/ sorry 03:25:50 <shachaf> whoa, whoa, whoa 03:26:07 <shachaf> no reason to apologize 03:26:40 <shachaf> i asked because i thought you were ignoring my questions about it and i didn't want to be bugging you if you weren't interested 03:26:41 <copumpkin> well, I said I would :P 03:26:43 <shachaf> also this is a different channel 03:26:49 <copumpkin> oh, it wasn't intentional ignoring 03:26:53 <copumpkin> sorry about that 03:26:54 <shachaf> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://glacierpeak.sno.wednet.edu/teachers/bjuhl/docs/Soph%20English/Second%20Semester/Alienation,%20Tolerance,%20Cyrano/Related%20Poems,%20Articles,%20Short%20Stories,%20Etc/Liking%20What%20You%20See%20Portrait%20Version.doc might be slightly better, if more convoluted. 03:26:59 <copumpkin> I'm barely at my computer these days 03:27:10 <copumpkin> check up on it every so often, get into a chat or two and then go elsewhere 03:27:31 <shachaf> i think kmc recommended it too 03:27:36 <shachaf> he's not in this channel anymore, though 03:27:50 <copumpkin> oh why'd he leave? :( 03:29:06 <shachaf> i'm not the person to ask 03:31:03 <oerjan> wait is he gone completely 03:33:27 <oerjan> oh well he's on freenode somewhere 03:36:34 <copumpkin> pity 03:56:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 03:57:52 <shachaf> copumpkin: what have you been doing 03:58:04 <shachaf> people things 03:58:47 <copumpkin> hrm, working a lot, traveling to visit gf (she matched, graduated, went to china, just moved, and I did much of that with her), hanging out with work colleagues, stuff like that 03:59:18 <shachaf> matched? 03:59:33 <copumpkin> residency match program for med students 03:59:57 <shachaf> oh 03:59:57 <copumpkin> giant algorithm matching people to hospitals they'll spend the next few years in 04:00:35 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:02:22 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 04:05:00 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Client Quit). 04:06:48 <MDude> Out of context that sounds like it might be way to decide how to beat people up very bad. 04:21:43 <copumpkin> :) 04:41:06 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:42:18 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:53:30 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 05:15:55 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:32:41 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 05:37:58 <Bike> So, in a theorem prover thingie, what exactly is a "tactic"? I swear i've heard about such things. 05:40:43 <newsham> a proof search algorithm 05:42:38 <Bike> Could you elaborate. 05:45:11 <shachaf> what kind of elaboration 05:45:27 <Bike> something a silly person like me could perhaps begin to understand. 05:46:46 <elliott> a program that tries to write a proof term for a certain subset of propositions 05:46:59 <newsham> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/sf/current/toc.html provides a reasonable introduction 05:47:03 <elliott> usually in some ugly turing-complete language, no real hard guarantees 05:50:16 <Bike> thanks 05:51:24 <Bike> i wonder if i should just try going through this damn thing, i have enough books already 05:51:45 <newsham> you start of with a statement of what you want a functions type to be, and you have some other functions which can do parts of the solution for that function, giving you a simpler type (goal) to work towards 05:51:59 <newsham> its like an interactive program solver.. you nudge it along and it does a lot of the grunt work 05:52:14 <newsham> you wont have to go very far in SF before you learn what a tactic is 05:52:24 <Bike> SF? 05:52:31 <Bike> oh, this book. 05:52:32 <newsham> the sf/current/toc.html book 05:52:54 <Bike> well, i kind of don't want to read about booleans for the billionth time. especially since i'm probably never going to use coq. you know? 05:53:17 -!- FreeFull has quit. 05:55:18 <elliott> booleans? 05:55:25 <elliott> coq doesn't really involve all that many of those 05:55:35 <newsham> sf starts out with a few boolean examples 05:55:40 <newsham> dont worry, it goes quickly from there 05:55:46 <elliott> Bike: you may like chlipala's CPDT 05:55:52 <Bike> just glancing at the table of contents, with enumerated data types 05:55:58 <elliott> it has nicer proof style than SF 05:56:01 <elliott> http://adam.chlipala.net/cpdt/ 05:56:18 <elliott> it's the coq manual :p 05:56:35 <elliott> (heavy tactics focus) 05:56:48 <Bike> Can I just ask things here? 05:57:03 <elliott> sure, if you want. I'm too tired to answer questions though. 05:57:23 <shachaf> @localtime elliott 05:57:24 <lambdabot> Local time for elliott is Thu Jun 19 06:57:23 2014 05:57:37 <Bike> well it's super basic. like, you said tactics are in some ugly imperative language, so presumably they're outside of the coq system, not written in coq? 05:57:57 <elliott> they're in a metalanguage as part of the coq system 05:58:04 <elliott> though they can also be written in ocaml, like the built-in ones are 06:01:54 <Bike> hm this "coq reference manual" which may or may not be what you just linked might be what i want 06:03:39 <Bike> sf has this as an example: "Theorem plus_O_n : ∀n : nat, 0 + n = n. Proof. intros n. reflexivity. Qed." the intros n and reflexivity are steps to do the proof? like we start with the 0 + n thing, intros n fires, that gets you something else (probably n = n), then reflexivity fires and reduces it to true? 06:04:30 <newsham> yah, "intros" and "reflexitivity" are tactics. 06:05:08 <elliott> Bike: I was joking when I called CPDT the Coq manual. 06:05:13 <elliott> it's more like the Coq manual they forgot to write. 06:05:15 <Bike> oh. 06:05:18 <Bike> well, i am also tired. 06:05:51 <newsham> you should try to load the SF example in proof general, and step through the proof.. for each stepp it will show you what is known in the environment and what the goal is 06:05:59 <Bike> hm. 06:06:00 <newsham> and the tactics "intros" and "reflexivity" will update those 06:06:07 <newsham> you can single step through the proof that way interactively 06:06:29 <newsham> its a shame there is no "live coq" web site that lets you do this online 06:06:31 <Bike> well, why not (besides that i haven't installed an emacs mode in so long) 06:07:27 <Bike> blugh my distro doesn't have coq in the main repos 06:07:37 <elliott> really? 06:07:39 <newsham> you can prob find a livecd to boot in a virtual machine 06:08:59 <Bike> elliott: yeah, it's in the AUR. not hard to install or anything, but a bit annoying 06:09:07 <Bike> and it comes with some IDE for some reason? whatever, less work maybe 06:10:21 <newsham> oh, it looks like there are some SF youtube vids 06:10:31 <newsham> maybe they would have good walktrhoughs of some proofs 06:11:17 <Bike> i'm looking at this for weird reasons nobody here would probably like 06:12:24 <newsham> the great thing about knowledge, we dont have to approve 06:15:20 <Bike> you say that now, but watch me use coq to sink california 06:21:13 <newsham> you're working for a hedge fund? 07:02:07 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 07:03:10 <b_jonas> `coins 07:03:10 <b_jonas> ^coins 07:03:49 -!- Effilry has joined. 07:06:43 <b_jonas> I'm hoping for something like: 3100,182,4,10001coin 10866,3582,22002,22002coin 192,1051,25,1056coin 11652,22252,23004,22002coin 8500,,4, 3001,,,coin 07:06:50 <b_jonas> no 07:06:57 <b_jonas> 3100,182,4,10001coin 10866,3582,22002,22002coin 192,1051,25,1056coin 11652,22252,23004,22002coin 8500,,4,coin 3001,,,coin 07:23:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:23:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:23:55 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:24:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:24:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:24:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:25:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:25:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:25:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:25:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:25:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:25:53 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:26:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:26:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:26:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:27:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:27:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:27:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:27:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:27:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:27:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:28:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:28:27 -!- glogbot has joined. 07:28:27 <?unknown?> [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 07:28:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:28:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:29:05 -!- realzies has joined. 07:30:38 -!- slereah_ has joined. 08:04:52 -!- password2 has joined. 08:09:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:13:45 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:15:04 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 08:18:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:27:26 -!- password2 has joined. 08:31:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:38:01 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:38:01 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:39:09 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:45:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:47:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:49:24 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:04:22 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:14:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:33:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 09:49:58 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:04:16 -!- barrucad1 has changed nick to barrucadu. 10:15:40 -!- boily has joined. 10:38:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:38:28 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:01:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PLASMA CHICKEN). 11:27:41 <Effilry> BANCcoin? 11:28:52 -!- Effilry has quit (Changing host). 11:28:52 -!- Effilry has joined. 11:29:01 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 11:32:27 <fizzie> Hmm. 11:34:25 -!- HackEgo has joined. 11:34:30 <fizzie> There we: go. 11:34:31 <fizzie> `coins 11:34:33 <HackEgo> ​bizobcoin pbocoin qweverpacoin rutcrtlcoin vowelcoin jumcoin kethaxcoin twositcoin fitcoin auticonformcoin jash-01coin haniacoin tediumbraincoin hunkatorecoin omecoin thestaicoin chocoin velacoin palcoin revoycoin 11:35:02 <fizzie> fungot: Couldn't you take care of your fellow bots? 11:35:03 <fungot> fizzie: so the way it does and it reports a problem on 1 exercise... 1 exercise i really dont have a clue understand his point ( because the fnord one that chances are if you never exit? that book sucks. 11:36:22 <Melvar> ( the (3 `LTE` 5) (tactics search) 11:36:24 <idris-bot> lteSucc (lteSucc (lteSucc lteZero)) : LTE 3 5 11:37:22 <Melvar> Bike: ↑ The search tactic in Idris mostly just tries constructors, which works for simple things like this. 11:58:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: thanks 11:58:41 <b_jonas> `coins 11:58:43 <HackEgo> ​timensifticcoin andcoin rubicoin eodcoin poikecoin wailcoin morascoin contcoin dobeycoin quotecoin spiuntinecoin mismcoin monecoin existcoin agrtecoin boarceacoin braincoin illgaudeliumcoin factcoin tapascoin 11:58:48 <b_jonas> ^style BANCStar 11:58:48 <fungot> Not found. 12:01:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:18:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:22:22 <b_jonas> overheared coworker in meeting room saying "it's all the same because it's Turing complete" 12:24:53 <oerjan> b_jonas: just start giving him code in befunge hth 12:24:58 -!- polytone_ has changed nick to monotone. 12:25:12 <oerjan> *funge-98 12:32:04 <b_jonas> is funge-98 the one with bounded memory? 12:32:13 <b_jonas> or only bounded code space? 12:32:17 <b_jonas> let me check the wiki 12:35:09 -!- yorick has joined. 12:35:28 <b_jonas> right, funge-98 allows arbitrary playfield dimensions, 12:39:46 <b_jonas> I wonder if my old olvashato language counts as esoteric 12:40:06 <b_jonas> it wasn't designed to be difficult to program in, so it might not count 12:41:24 <b_jonas> let me look up the official definition 12:41:45 <b_jonas> "An esoteric programming language is a computer programming language designed to experiment with weird ideas, to be hard to program in, or as a joke, rather than for practical use." -- I could argue either way 12:46:24 <elliott> http://catseye.tc/node/The_Aesthetics_of_Esolangs is my preferred vague definition of esoteric, I think 12:46:24 <oerjan> how can a language whose name means "readable" be esoteric that's absurd 12:50:18 <oerjan> also why won't ó work on google's pages in my browser 12:50:56 <oerjan> or ´ accents at all 12:51:52 <oerjan> b_jonas: i corrected to funge-98 to make it clear i meant the tc variant. 12:52:12 <oerjan> or well, less un-tc. not sure if there are still some limits. 12:52:41 <elliott> funge-98 is at least as-TC-as-C, I think 12:52:43 <b_jonas> oerjan: too late to rename 12:52:49 <oerjan> OKAY 12:52:50 <elliott> and has enough holes that there's probably something TC hiding in there 12:52:56 <elliott> especially with fingerprints 12:55:09 <b_jonas> oerjan: the original purpose was to make a language in which I write ugly source code, and it's compiled to readable standard ml and readable prolog code; but I sort of ran out of time and the readable part got dropped so now the compiled code is even more ugly than the original 12:55:48 <b_jonas> I might be able to make the output a bit more readable if I fix the indenting (though that's not trivial) and throw in some peep-hole beautification rules 12:56:10 <b_jonas> (it already has some of the latter, but needs more) 12:56:16 <oerjan> `addquote <b_jonas> oerjan: the original purpose was to make a language in which I write ugly source code, and it's compiled to readable standard ml and readable prolog code; but I sort of ran out of time and 12:56:17 <HackEgo> 1207) <b_jonas> oerjan: the original purpose was to make a language in which I write ugly source code, and it's compiled to readable standard ml and readable prolog code; but I sort of ran out of time and 12:56:20 <oerjan> the readable part got dropped so now the compiled code is even 12:56:22 <oerjan> more ugly than the original 12:56:29 <oerjan> `revert 12:56:35 <HackEgo> Done. 12:56:40 <oerjan> bloody irssi line merging worked half-way 12:57:12 <oerjan> `addquote <b_jonas> oerjan: the original purpose was to make a language in which I write ugly source code, and it's compiled to readable standard ml and readable prolog code; but I sort of ran out of time and the readable part got dropped so now the compiled code is even more ugly than the original 12:57:13 <HackEgo> 1207) <b_jonas> oerjan: the original purpose was to make a language in which I write ugly source code, and it's compiled to readable standard ml and readable prolog code; but I sort of ran out of time and the readable part got dropped so now the compiled code is even more ugly than the original 12:57:42 <b_jonas> stuff's already here, for ages: http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/olvashato/ 12:57:46 <b_jonas> but with not much docs 13:00:39 <oerjan> i am pretty sure using ruby to compile something into prolog and sml is blasphemic hth 13:00:57 <b_jonas> why? 13:01:46 <oerjan> because sml is the language that's supposed to be good for implementing compilers in 13:02:28 <b_jonas> what? I thought sml is supposed to be a general-purpose language with definition available only in some expensive book 13:03:10 <oerjan> well it is general purpose, but ml was _created_ for implementing other languages in 13:03:20 <oerjan> the name stands for "meta-language" 13:03:29 <slereah_> Gaiz how do I computer 13:04:09 <oerjan> of course ocaml and haskell are also good examples, being similar in the ways that matter. 13:04:11 <slereah_> I am trying to write over some text of console, but so far nothing works D: 13:04:27 <slereah_> Neither fflush nor printf("\b") nor ncurses 13:04:55 <oerjan> hm how much has sml been hurt in recent years by being closed-documentation 13:05:10 * oerjan is just wondering 13:05:43 <b_jonas> slereah_: try printf("\b\x7f") to overpunch the character with delete so the column is skipped when the tape is read back 13:05:53 <slereah_> I shall try 13:06:11 <oerjan> i suspect prolog is also good to write implementations in. erlang was originally written in it? 13:06:41 <slereah_> Nope, it just writes \x7f as the unicode character 007f 13:07:22 <b_jonas> oerjan: I did consider writing an interpreter in prolog and one in sml plus only a minimal translator that translates the syntax of the program to a data structure in the input syntax of those two languages 13:07:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:07:53 <b_jonas> (such as pushes parenthesis and throws in some commas) 13:08:02 <b_jonas> but I decide it wouldn't be simpler 13:08:32 <b_jonas> and I'd likely lose points the result because it's interpreted crap 13:09:01 <slereah_> Ah, I think I see 13:09:12 <slereah_> You need to use \r instead of \n in hthe text 13:10:05 <slereah_> Except now only one line displays instead of the three 13:10:09 <oerjan> b_jonas: hm it looks lispy 13:10:10 <slereah_> How bothersome 13:10:38 <b_jonas> oerjan: yes, in particular it's like scheme in that the head of function calls are evaluated the same as other parts 13:10:46 <b_jonas> no wait 13:10:48 <b_jonas> are they? 13:10:50 <b_jonas> let me check 13:11:17 <b_jonas> quite the opposite 13:11:32 <b_jonas> it's common lispy in that the head of function calls is evaluated differently than the arguments 13:11:40 <oerjan> lisp-2, check 13:12:00 <b_jonas> that's why there's a primitive function |call| just like in clisp 13:12:26 <b_jonas> but the |let| builtin has a syntax different from lisps 13:14:21 <b_jonas> it's implementable as a lisp macro, but has an unnatural syntax 13:14:51 <oerjan> and here i though b_jonas was your real name 13:23:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:48:33 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:52:56 -!- password2 has joined. 14:16:05 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:27:58 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:37:14 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:38:42 -!- brandonson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:39:18 -!- brandonson has joined. 14:39:46 -!- brandonson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 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18:16:26 -!- ggherdov has joined. 18:16:26 -!- newsham has joined. 18:17:33 -!- atehwa has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 18:17:33 -!- 17SAAFGOG has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 18:17:34 -!- jj2baile has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 18:32:51 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 18:33:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Excess Flood). 18:33:13 -!- brandonson has quit (Excess Flood). 18:33:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 18:33:59 -!- brandonson has joined. 18:34:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 19:04:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:12:59 -!- ^v has joined. 19:13:53 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 19:31:01 -!- conehead has joined. 19:32:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:34:42 -!- Bike has joined. 19:39:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:40:01 <olsner> `quote midsummer 19:40:01 <HackEgo> No output. 19:41:47 <int-e> `quote night's 19:41:48 <HackEgo> No output. 19:41:53 <int-e> `quote dream 19:41:54 <HackEgo> 147) <zzo38> catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream \ 230) <nddrylliog> back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. \ 240) <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, yeah, but P 19:41:59 <olsner> `quote fixed pattern 19:41:59 <HackEgo> 358) <olsner> as always in sweden everything goes to a fixed pattern: thursday is queueing at systembolaget to get beer and schnaps, friday is pickled herring, schnaps and dancing the frog dance around the phallos, saturday is dedicated to being hung over 19:42:46 <int-e> `quote 240 19:42:46 <HackEgo> 240) <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, yeah, but Purdue has poultry science facilities beyond the dreams of avarice. 19:44:16 <olsner> but I did the systembolaget yesterday, 5 minutes before closing when it was empty, so I neatly evaded the queueing 19:48:02 <olsner> btw, someone just pointed out that the frog dance is likely a jab at the french, imported from english derogative use of "frog" (but frog doesn't really mean that in swedish) 19:48:13 <olsner> it's also danced to a french march 19:53:03 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:57:44 -!- mhi^ has joined. 19:59:00 <fizzie> I like the name "systembolaget". 20:02:32 <fizzie> Can't find the etymology in the (English) 'pedia. 20:02:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:03:14 <fizzie> Our counterpart is just called "Alko", which is very boring. 20:04:20 -!- Bike has joined. 20:04:30 <fizzie> The Norwegian version has a refreshingly direct name. ("Vinmonopolet".) 20:05:27 <olsner> yeah, exactly what it says, it's pretty nice 20:06:53 <fizzie> "During the 1939-40 Winter War the company [Alko, or Oy Alkoholiliike Ab as it was then called] mass-produced molotov cocktails for the Finnish military, production totalling 450,000 units" heh 20:07:36 <olsner> it seems that "system" comes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg_Public_House_System 20:07:51 <fizzie> I see. 20:10:32 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:11:07 -!- MDream has joined. 20:11:07 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 20:25:16 <Taneb> applybot: help 20:25:16 <applybot> Meta-commands: colour context help info load* restart shutdown* state timeout* undo unicode unload* \ Isabelle commands: apply by declare defer definition done find_theorems fun function lemma oops prefer primrec quickcheck term termination thm try0 typ unfolding using value 20:30:30 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:47:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:48:52 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:01:16 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:08:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:13:12 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 21:13:32 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 21:13:37 <mroman> applybot: state 21:13:38 <applybot> Not in a proof. 21:13:54 <fizzie> fungot: Prove something. 21:13:55 <fungot> fizzie: src/ ip.h or is it 21:14:15 <mroman> fungot: ls -lah src 21:14:16 <fungot> mroman: damn. he got that. but still patch of green where medialab extension is supposed to 21:20:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:20:13 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:23:13 <oerjan> applybot: country 21:23:13 <applybot> *** Unrecognized command 21:27:00 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:28:43 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:29:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:41:52 <MDude> applybot: info 21:41:52 <applybot> Loaded theories: Main "~~/src/HOL/Library/Code_Target_Nat" "~~/src/HOL/Number_Theory/Primes" \ 0 lines in session. \ Command timeout is 20 s. \ Unicode translation disabled. \ Colour output disabled. 21:42:26 <MDude> applybot: help state 21:42:26 <applybot> state: Show the state of the current proof (if there is one). 21:43:10 <MDude> applyvot: context 21:43:22 <MDude> applybot: help context 21:43:22 <applybot> context [N]: Show the most recent (N) lines in this session. 21:43:42 <MDude> applybot context 10 21:43:54 <MDude> applybot: context 10 21:43:55 <applybot> Beginning of theory. 21:44:21 <MDude> applybot: help term 21:44:21 <applybot> term: Isabelle command 21:44:36 <MDude> applybot: help Isabelle 21:44:36 <applybot> Unknown command: Isabelle 21:44:49 <MDude> applybot: fungot 21:44:49 <applybot> *** Unrecognized command 21:44:50 <fungot> MDude: in the matter... things will fnord down after this week hopefully. 21:50:03 -!- boily has joined. 21:50:58 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:51:49 <boily> ~duck MSRP 21:51:49 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 21:52:31 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:02:25 <boily> `? b_jonas 22:02:26 <HackEgo> b_jonas? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:02:46 <boily> an sudden opportunity appears! b_jonas, how would you wisdomically describe yourself? 22:04:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[AlphaBeta]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39860&oldid=34593 * 188.192.76.116 * (+257) Added Lua implementation from Michael Armbruster 22:10:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:28:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: INDIAN CHICKEN). 22:28:47 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:42:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:55:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:09:31 <MDude> ~duck help 23:09:49 <MDude> ~duck metasepia 23:10:13 -!- ^v has joined. 23:10:15 <MDude> Oh, metasepia has left. 23:11:35 <MDude> `? metasepia 23:11:36 <HackEgo> metasepia knows the weather at your nearest airport, and also something about ducks. 23:13:28 <Taneb> `? MDude 23:13:29 <HackEgo> MDude? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:13:52 <Taneb> `learn MDude is just a dude, with an M's courage. 23:13:54 <HackEgo> I knew that. 23:17:47 <oerjan> are you sure he's not a million dudes 23:20:04 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 23:21:33 <MDude> That would be pretty cool. 23:22:22 <Sgeo> Who was that person in B who blatantly had no idea about anything in the rules? 23:22:57 <MDude> I don't know what B is, so if I was in it I clearly had no idea. 23:23:30 <MDude> `? B 23:23:31 <HackEgo> B? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:23:41 <Sgeo> I think that serves as proof that MDude was that person in B 23:24:34 <MDude> It's pretty strong evidence. 23:24:42 -!- ^v has joined. 23:29:08 <Sgeo> M P Darke 23:33:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:37:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:40:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:45:14 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:55:40 <oerjan> argh i now have _four_ tabs with shtetl-optimized comment threads open that i haven't managed to finish... 23:56:38 <oerjan> (even once. i sometimes go back to old ones to check for new comments.) 23:57:30 <Sgeo> Is that F# monad tutorial that doesn't say 'monad' about monads in general or just the Error monad? 23:58:03 <oerjan> it's really a thinly disguised burrito cookbook hth 23:59:18 <Sgeo> http://www.calcentral.com/~monadrailway/Monad/Welcome.html 2014-06-20: 00:00:59 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:03:08 <oerjan> ...someone top posted in one of the comment threads... 00:17:45 <oerjan> yay finally managed to close one of the tabs 00:34:09 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:35:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:38:03 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:46:42 -!- edwardk has joined. 01:26:21 -!- Fossil has joined. 01:26:44 <Fossil> Hi everybody, I am here again! 01:28:05 <Fossil> Somebody available here? 01:28:06 <Bike> Hi Fossil, I am also here. 01:28:14 <Fossil> Ah, hello Bike! 01:28:32 <Fossil> I am happy because You here again, too. 01:29:24 <Fossil> If you go to my webpage, the parancssor.info/forum , you can see, that I changed the language from Hungary to English. 01:30:24 <Fossil> Because, Yesterday here in this channel the community was nice, and all peoples said that my english knowledge not too bad, enough good to understand it. 01:31:02 <oerjan> we forgot something yesterday... 01:31:05 <oerjan> `relcome Fossil 01:31:06 <HackEgo> ​Fossil: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:31:26 <oerjan> (actually HackEgo maybe wasn't here) 01:31:46 <Fossil> And I arrived at a decision, that I finish my hungarian language publications, and begin it in English. 01:32:14 <Fossil> Hello oerjan! 01:32:20 <oerjan> as they say, your english is better than our hungarian 01:33:02 <Fossil> ??? Excuse me, I dont understand enough good: Now my english is understable or not? 01:33:25 <oerjan> quite understandable 01:33:37 <Fossil> Because, I begun translate the documentation of my mau language from hungarian to (my bad) English... 01:35:19 <Fossil> If You want, I can now copy to here lines by lines the first few parts of the translated documentation, for verifying, your community find it enough good "human readable", or not. 01:38:05 <Fossil> No reply? 01:39:16 <Fossil> Nothing answer? 01:39:17 <oerjan> ok but not too much at once 01:39:43 <Fossil> Okay, attention please! I begin it. 01:40:11 <Fossil> The mau programming language Version number: 16 Release date: 2014.06.13 The official webpage and forum of the mau programming language: http://parancssor.info M@U "The programming language with efficient line noise" 01:40:22 <Fossil> ...and scrawls... 01:40:41 <Fossil> You should know, that the mau interpreter is female, therefore her personal pronoun is "she"... Compiling options of the mau language Type simple: make Then come into existence the binary file named mau and this is the mau interpreter. Now you should to copy it into a directory, which is available in the $PATH variable of your operating system. 01:40:52 <oerjan> is the @ in M@U official? 01:41:16 <Fossil> Yes 01:41:43 <oerjan> ...wait i seem to remember that hungarian has ungendered pronouns :P 01:41:59 <Fossil> The M@U is only a "slogan", an ascii-art picture symbol 01:42:48 <Fossil> Yes, you re well, in hungarian no difference between she he and it. But this is significant in an english documentation... 01:43:45 <Fossil> In hungarian, she and he is: "ő", and lot of times the "it" equal "ő" too, if not, then it=az. 01:44:13 <Fossil> I continue the copy of documentation. 01:44:14 <oerjan> i learned a very little bit of hungarian once, so i remember that. 01:44:17 <Fossil> The mau interpreter has built-in support of the handling of the special flags of the "ext" filesystems, therefore she need the ext2 header files. They available usually in the program-pack named generally „e2fsprogs” in the Linux program-economy (or something alike). This files consequently are dependencies of the mau language—quasi. But they are only seeming, supposed dependencies, because if we not use ext filesystem, we can c 01:45:04 <Fossil> with the following steps: in the first lines of the vz.h file search this line: #define EXT2ATTRIBUTUMOK change to this: // #define EXT2ATTRIBUTUMOK or erase it fully. 01:45:14 <Fossil> In this case she not claim the ext2 header files, and the e2fsprogs pack. But, of course, in exchange, if we all the same run a mau program which would like handling this ext2 flags, then they running will broken, and the interpreter will tie-up, with this error message: 01:45:24 <Fossil> LOG:> 2014.04.03 23:07:12 : E mau interpreter ext2 filerendszer támogatás nélkül lett lefordítva, emiatt nem képes beolvasni az ext filerendszer-specifikus flageket! 01:45:48 <Fossil> Additionally, the mau interpreter has as optional dependency the X server. This mean, that in the vz.h file exist this compiler directive: 01:45:56 <Fossil> #define X11INTEGRATION 01:46:07 <Fossil> Hereat she claim certain header files for the handling possibilities of a some X functions. For ekzample the reading of the clipboard-content. In so far as we no claim this ability of her, then we can erase from the vz.h file the line written above, also in the Makefile file we should rewrite line: 01:46:13 <Fossil> LIBS = -ldl -lX11 -lXmu 01:46:23 <Fossil> as we trim from its end the last two parameters, i.e. should fall behin only this: 01:46:27 <Fossil> LIBS = -ldl 01:46:40 <Fossil> Over and above, the mau interpreter is aware support for multiple architecture. In principle, at least... In effect, nowadays she is operable under the platform of the X86 32 & 64 bits only. She is compilable without any extremelly action, but in the 64 bit version the „long double” variables are stored in 16 bytes, on the other hand in the 32 bits version only in 12 bytes. 01:46:52 <Fossil> This sign the variable type, which join in the mau language to the #D casting operator. In this case, all mau program using this variable type should work without a hitch, smooth, but this size-abatement apparently issue in lower precision, sorry! 01:47:00 <Fossil> If somebody would probe to porting this language to other platforms, for ekzample under Windows or Mac alá, than the cheafest first step should to be that in the vz.h file search this lines: 01:47:09 <oerjan> i think that is enough 01:48:24 <Fossil> Okay. What you think, continue I the translation in this quality, or no? 01:50:57 <oerjan> it is possible to read, but i have to guess what some words mean 01:52:11 <oerjan> since i am norwegian, i am a bit unsure if it is harder or easier for a native english speaker 01:52:49 <Fossil> I would like, that after I will finished my horrible translation, and I upload the document to my webpage, somebody would as highly nice, to corrent it to a good English. 01:54:02 <Fossil> Maybe if you understand it, hopefully a native english speaker understand it too. That is sure, I cannot translate it better as you read it above. 01:56:06 <oerjan> using "she" for the interpreter is highly unusual, anyway. 01:56:17 -!- hashtag has joined. 01:56:44 <elliott> what if your interpreter is a ship? 01:56:48 <Fossil> Unusual thing coming good to an "esoteric" language, or...? 01:57:07 <oerjan> i suppose 01:58:52 <Fossil> Excuse me elliot, I dont understand your question. Ship? Ocean vehicle? My interpreter? Dont understand, sorry... 01:59:18 <Bike> ships are usually referred to as women in english for whatever reason 02:01:30 <Fossil> I named it to female, because in Egypt exist a cat cast named "mau", and this is a emblem, symbol of my mau. And, hungarian peoples think, that the cat animal a little bit alike to the womens, to females... 02:02:07 -!- hashtag has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:03:22 <Fossil> dogs = male. Cats = female. 02:05:02 -!- brandonson has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/). 02:05:20 -!- brandonsons has joined. 02:05:23 <Bike> and yes, ship like the ocean vehicle 02:06:02 -!- brandonsons has changed nick to brandonson. 02:06:56 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:07:50 <Fossil> To this time I was dont know, that for english peoples the ships are females. I think, this equal with the manner of hungarian peoples, which think, that cats are mostly females behaviour havend. 02:08:25 -!- vyv has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:10:34 <Fossil> This language can to be very, true usefull for lot of jobs, because she is very fast, she has almost nothing dependencies, her binary size is small, not need lot of resources, and as I think, her support highestly theINDIRECTION, because in the mau almost all small/little thras/things can to be an arithmetical (or string) expression, the variable names too, or the function names, the jumping labels, the casting operators, the arithmet 02:10:39 -!- ^v has joined. 02:10:58 <Fossil> Chapter 1 - The variables of the mau language 02:11:10 <Fossil> If somebody at first time view to a mau program, belike will appalled, because it seems highly, absolutely unintelligible, baffling, beyond one's depth. To the nearest approach to the Perl language, but so much the worse. This general aspect at the same time spring just from one thing: thus, the mau language handle the variables forsooth considerably exotic, for the rest to the speeding up of the programs run. 02:11:24 <Fossil> By all accounts, in no way under discussion, be in the bag, that the biggest difficulty in the prehension of the mau language, is the variable-handling. After the survival this, the rest is already easy. 02:11:33 <Fossil> Scilicet, the mau has very lot of advantage, for ekzample she has countless builtin high-level datatypes: strings (2 different string types), arrays, string arrays, stacks, directory (yes, this is a special datatype designed for the Linux directory structure!), inputfile, outputfile, streams, bitfields... And more others coming soon! 02:11:41 <Fossil> Consequently, this language is actually very EASY, it is a good as saying that she is directly COMFY. Except the variable names, yes, sorry & excuse me... 02:13:58 <Fossil> Okay, Now I should say goodbye, friend, because I should continue my translations of the mau documentation... 02:14:16 <Fossil> logout. 02:14:52 -!- Fossil has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:22:12 -!- password2 has joined. 02:29:16 -!- FreeFull has quit. 02:53:08 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:58:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 03:19:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: nuit). 03:37:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:38:57 -!- Bike has joined. 03:43:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:45:16 -!- Bike has joined. 03:49:00 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:52:56 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 03:58:28 -!- FireFly has joined. 03:58:29 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 03:58:39 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:59:46 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:02:39 -!- Gregor has joined. 04:03:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:05:46 -!- Bike has joined. 04:24:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:25:25 <myname> what the hell is mau 04:27:35 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 04:29:32 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:36:51 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:48:50 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:49:09 -!- ^v has joined. 05:02:24 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:19:19 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:22:21 -!- ^v has joined. 05:32:54 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:34:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:04:43 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:16:54 -!- ^v has joined. 06:40:00 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 06:41:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Keya]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39861&oldid=39338 * Rdebath * (+0) You're a (tiny) bit better than that. 06:42:45 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:48:36 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:04:17 <myname> "brainfuck equivalent" would be a funny category for everything that is turing complete 07:10:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39862 * Rdebath * (+1065) Nope, can't write an interpreter. 07:11:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:13:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:14:36 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:28:55 -!- slereah has joined. 08:00:23 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:22:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:26:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:31:21 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:31:21 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:32:40 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Client Quit). 08:39:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:49:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:49:08 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:49:51 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Client Quit). 08:50:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:00:10 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 09:00:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:01:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 09:02:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:05:16 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:05:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:41:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:45:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 09:45:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:50:28 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:51:14 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:55:47 <mroman> I failed the crypto exam :( 09:56:03 <slereah> Were the questions encrypted 09:56:20 <mroman> Sometimes . 09:57:04 <mroman> s/fail/blew 09:59:51 <mroman> I probably passed it, but I blew it in my eyes. 10:00:40 <b_jonas> slereah: that's like the time travel exam where the questions are posed after you have to hand in the answers? 10:01:01 <slereah> well if you pass you really deserve it 10:01:09 <slereah> I wonder if there's time travel exams 10:01:20 <slereah> Like exams on closed timelike curve in general relativity 10:01:32 <mroman> I couldn't fully answer one question 10:02:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:05:12 <b_jonas> slereah: not exams. there's just one exam which everyone takes. 10:21:44 -!- boily has joined. 10:25:28 <ais523> wait, is Pluso basically a more limited version of Deadfish? 10:25:51 <ais523> Deadfish minimization is not an area of esolang development I had really considered 10:28:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39863&oldid=39842 * Ais523 * (+184) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ respond 10:29:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39864&oldid=39863 * Ais523 * (+64) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ and another response; be more ambitious, people 10:30:18 <b_jonas> interesting 10:36:40 <ais523> wait, are Supreme Court judgements /really/ written in Computer Modern? or is it just that the person who puts them up on their official website goes via TeX? 10:42:38 <b_jonas> ais523: they're just lazy to change the default font 10:43:04 <ais523> it's not the default for anything but TeX and TeX-based typesetters, though, as far as I know 10:43:29 <b_jonas> ais523: and formulas in mathjax and a few other similar stuff, yeah 10:48:42 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:49:25 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:57:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ÆTHERAL CHICKEN). 11:09:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 11:15:42 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:32:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:32:18 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:37:01 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:37:33 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:51:33 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:52:51 -!- contrapumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:53:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:55:50 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 11:56:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:58:27 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:58:46 -!- yorick has joined. 12:00:51 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:01:23 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:25:09 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 12:30:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:35:39 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:35:55 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:40:33 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:14:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:27:32 <oerjan> <slereah> Were the questions encrypted <-- just be glad they weren't steganographed hth 13:37:57 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> wait, is Pluso basically a more limited version of Deadfish? <ais523> Deadfish minimization is not an area of esolang development I had really considered 13:37:58 <HackEgo> 1208) <ais523> wait, is Pluso basically a more limited version of Deadfish? <ais523> Deadfish minimization is not an area of esolang development I had really considered 13:44:17 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 13:44:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:05:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:06:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:11:20 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:11:34 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:17:15 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:20:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:23:56 -!- mhi^ has joined. 14:44:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Gentzen]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39865 * GreyKnight * (+378) Created page with "== variation on cmp == A function similar to cmp would be: cmpv : (*a |- *b; *a |- *c; *a |- *d) / ($1(|\|), $2(|\|), *a |- *b, *c, *d); Maybe you can think of a use for th..." 14:47:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:49:44 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:54:22 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:54:31 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:02:06 -!- mihow has joined. 15:04:21 -!- password2 has joined. 15:04:33 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:08:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:13:03 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:19:53 -!- password2 has joined. 15:20:07 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:24:32 -!- augur has joined. 15:25:30 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:27:23 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:30:29 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:35:33 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:36:27 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:45:52 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:49:39 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:50:57 -!- lollo64it has joined. 15:54:00 <Quintopia> sigh 15:54:06 <Quintopia> howwwww's it going 15:55:04 <int-e> fine? 15:55:32 <Quintopia> oh 15:55:35 <Quintopia> sounds boring 15:55:41 <Quintopia> what are you working on? 15:57:50 <int-e> finding a small sets of participants in the trolling loop on ##math, at that time. :-/ 15:58:04 <int-e> not so interesting. 15:59:58 <password2> does anthing interesstin ever happen on ##math 16:01:17 <int-e> it seems to work for homework help most of the time, with occasional outbursts of trollery. if you look for brilliancies you should probably go elsewhere. 16:02:00 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:02:40 <elliott> int-e: apply +b? 16:03:50 <int-e> elliott: +q, but yeah that's what I did 16:04:03 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:06:17 <ion> One of the best so far. :-D http://gooby.naurunappula.com/org/c9/51/c951092405fe15a3/0/1207578.gif 16:08:06 <elliott> int-e: the worst part is when it's obvious someone is being disruptive, but there's no good way of explaining why they should be +q'd/+b'd, especially since it's not obvious they're doing it maliciously, so you do nothing :( 16:09:42 <Quintopia> int-e: oh cool i'm glad you took care of that. i got so disgusted i had to go far away for a while 16:17:26 -!- password2 has joined. 16:23:55 -!- lollo64it has joined. 17:03:58 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:06:54 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:09:38 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:09:53 -!- ^v has joined. 17:15:05 -!- subleq has joined. 17:15:46 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:34:08 -!- edwardk has joined. 17:38:24 -!- mihow has joined. 17:46:25 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:49:49 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:02:52 <mroman> hm 18:03:09 <mroman> N^2 / ((N^2)/k + k*N) peaks at k = sqrt(N) 18:03:33 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:03:39 -!- _1_ifank94 has joined. 18:03:39 <_1_ifank94> hay 18:05:14 -!- _1_ifank94 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:14:21 <FreeFull> mroman: Does it peak at all? 18:14:50 <FreeFull> Plotting the graph shows it converging to some value at infinity 18:16:19 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 18:16:58 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 18:18:28 <int-e> it does, for fixed N 18:20:18 <FreeFull> Fixed n, non-fixed k? 18:20:24 <int-e> yes 18:21:11 <FreeFull> It seems to be a sort of 1/x curve 18:22:07 <int-e> note that by the AGM inequality, (N^2)/k + k*N >= 2sqrt(N^3), with equality when N^2/k = k*N, i.e., k = sqrt(N). 18:22:24 <FreeFull> Actually, it does seem to have one maximum and one minimum 18:22:37 <int-e> so N^2/((N^2)/k + k*N) <= sqrt(N)/2 with equality when k = sqrt(N). 18:23:27 <FreeFull> https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=N^2%2F%28N^2%2Fx+%2B+x*N%29 18:25:10 <FreeFull> Yeah, it works 18:25:41 <FreeFull> Should differentiate it to find the maximum 18:28:27 <FreeFull> diff(a/(a/k + k*b)) = ((a/k + k*b) - a*(b - a/k^2))/(a/k + k*b)^2 18:28:34 <FreeFull> Writing this out in text looks ugly 18:28:42 <FreeFull> a = N^2 and b = N 18:29:24 <mroman> FreeFull: If k is too high the algorithm doesn't scale anymore 18:29:36 <mroman> Trivially if k=N 18:29:41 <mroman> then the + term becomes N^N 18:29:52 <mroman> so it can't possibly be better than N^2 18:29:55 <mroman> (becomes N^2) 18:30:36 <mroman> (k is the number of processors for example) 18:30:49 <FreeFull> mroman: I'd just use newton's method 18:31:21 <FreeFull> I think it always converges quickly if you're using it to calculate square roots 18:32:32 <mroman> hm? 18:32:44 <mroman> I don't want to calculate square roots 18:32:51 <FreeFull> What do you want to do? 18:33:36 <mroman> I just had a hunch that this won't scale for large k 18:33:51 <mroman> and it looks like you get the best performance for k = sqrt(n) 18:34:14 <mroman> (N^2 is the regular algorithm) 18:34:46 <mroman> and (N^2)/k + N*k is an algorithms that divides the problem 18:36:41 <mroman> but you can't divide it arbitrarily 18:36:55 <mroman> because for k > sqrt(N) it's actually worse than using N*N 18:40:14 <mroman> ah 18:40:16 <mroman> there we go 18:40:28 <mroman> it's sqrt(n)*0.5 times faster for k = sqrt(n) 18:41:06 <int-e> lalala. "so N^2/((N^2)/k + k*N) <= sqrt(N)/2 with equality when k = sqrt(N)." 18:51:05 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:51:32 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:55:25 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to KitB____. 18:56:03 -!- KitB____ has changed nick to barrucadu. 19:04:34 -!- aretecode has joined. 19:19:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Client Quit). 19:20:56 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:22:12 -!- ^v has joined. 19:22:13 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:22:40 -!- ^v has joined. 19:22:41 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:23:08 -!- ^v has joined. 19:23:09 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:23:36 -!- ^v has joined. 19:23:37 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:24:04 -!- ^v has joined. 19:28:16 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:28:53 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 19:31:09 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:45:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:47:22 -!- Bike has joined. 19:50:15 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:02:50 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:07:08 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:08:35 -!- ^v has joined. 20:10:01 -!- lollo64it has joined. 20:15:40 -!- yorick_ has joined. 20:17:28 <impomatic_> Wow, this watch has been untouched in a box for 11 years. The battery still hasn't run out, the date is correct, but it's about 5 minutes slow! 20:17:53 <nortti> mechanical or electronic? 20:18:06 <nortti> err, *electric or electronic 20:18:24 -!- MSusw has joined. 20:18:27 <impomatic_> Electronic 20:18:37 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 20:22:27 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:23:42 <fizzie> Maybe it's 65 minutes slow and there's been a daylight savings time thing. 20:24:05 <fizzie> If that works in the right direction, I can't be bothered thinking it through. 20:25:04 -!- MSusw has changed nick to MDude. 20:28:00 <elliott> fizzie: still worn out from that one argument you had? 20:28:53 <fizzie> How do you even remember that? (I'm reminded of it every time I accidentally open Google Drive, because I've got that Spreadsheet of Proof in there.) 20:29:54 <elliott> I have a good memory for useless things. 20:30:00 <elliott> there's something from it in the qdb, I think. 20:31:46 -!- singingboyo has joined. 20:35:29 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:36:56 <mroman> the thruth is, that the watch is 1 day and 5 minutes behind 20:37:01 <mroman> but you can't tell ;) 20:39:02 <fizzie> "the date is correct" seems to contradict that. 20:51:33 <mroman> I meant one year then 20:51:38 <mroman> I should read whole sentences . 20:51:52 <mroman> unless it show the year too 20:52:04 <mroman> which electronic watches probably can do 20:52:13 <mroman> I'm gonna hide under the table now . 20:53:28 <impomatic_> The year is also correct :-) 20:53:46 <elliott> it's so far back it thinks it's 2014 BC. 20:53:58 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 20:58:23 <mroman> YEAH 20:58:29 <mroman> IT'S USING THE WRONG CALENDAR 20:58:40 <elliott> you're using the wrong capitalisation. 20:58:46 <mroman> No 20:58:49 <mroman> I'm just using capsloc 20:58:50 <mroman> k 20:59:28 <mroman> I wonder why someone invented that key 21:01:20 <mroman> My mechanical watch is so good, it has glow in the dark dots where the numbers are 21:01:48 <mroman> just some stupid idiot forgot to make the pointers glow in the dark two 21:01:56 <mroman> No I know where the hours are 21:02:00 <mroman> but not the pointers 21:02:06 <mroman> s/two/too 21:02:12 <mroman> s/No/now 21:02:45 <mroman> I really don't get why you'd make the numbers glow in the dark but not the pointers 21:07:23 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:10:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:12:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39866&oldid=39504 * 188.192.76.116 * (+0) /* Lua */ Bugfix for accumulator (now every value beyond 256 will set the accumulator to 0) 21:13:07 <Bicyclidine> ha ha. 21:13:23 <nooodl> good bugfix 21:14:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39867&oldid=39866 * 69.166.35.231 * (+0) Undo revision 39866 by [[Special:Contributions/188.192.76.116|188.192.76.116]] ([[User talk:188.192.76.116|talk]]) as an entomologist i assure you that that is a feature. 21:15:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39868&oldid=39862 * GermanyBoy * (+767) 21:15:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39869&oldid=39868 * GermanyBoy * (-206) 21:16:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:18:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39870&oldid=39869 * GermanyBoy * (+3) 21:19:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39871&oldid=39870 * GermanyBoy * (+88) 21:20:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39872&oldid=39871 * GermanyBoy * (-88) Undo revision 39871 by [[Special:Contributions/GermanyBoy|GermanyBoy]] ([[User talk:GermanyBoy|talk]]) 21:21:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39873&oldid=39872 * GermanyBoy * (-3) Undo revision 39870 by [[Special:Contributions/GermanyBoy|GermanyBoy]] ([[User talk:GermanyBoy|talk]]) 21:22:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39874&oldid=39873 * GermanyBoy * (+206) Undo revision 39869 by [[Special:Contributions/GermanyBoy|GermanyBoy]] ([[User talk:GermanyBoy|talk]]) sent accidentally wrong versions 21:24:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39875&oldid=39874 * GermanyBoy * (+41) 21:25:45 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:42:22 -!- conehead has joined. 21:53:25 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:56:36 -!- mhi^ has joined. 21:57:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:08:30 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:21:51 -!- boily has joined. 22:24:23 <impomatic_> Has anyone seen one of these before? https://twitter.com/john_metcalf/status/480113808753844224 22:25:33 <Bike> i haven't. it looks like an old cash register. 22:25:53 <Bike> are those buttons on the left of the numpad circuit components? looks neat 22:28:21 <impomatic_> I have no idea what it's supposed to do. 22:28:30 <KingOfKarlsruhe> maybe its art 22:28:51 <impomatic_> I don't think they're components. One looks like a capacitor, the others don't look like components. 22:29:06 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:29:14 <Bike> as long as you're on twitter i'd ask @textfiles 22:29:16 <impomatic_> The blue keys are labelled RUN, MONTR, PROG 22:29:40 <impomatic_> At the top left are some logic keys, AND OR NOT 22:30:09 <Bike> hm, i see a pdf manual for the Omron Programmable Controller Model SYSMAC-CRT10 but that's probably different 22:31:20 <impomatic_> And there's a list of instructions printed on the top left of the machine, looks like some kind of assembly language. 22:31:48 <Bike> yeah, this looks more like a logic analyzer 22:32:08 <Bike> pick this up at a flea sale or something? 22:32:17 <Bike> http://www.omronkft.hu/ 22:32:53 <Bike> oh, whoever replied is probably right 22:33:04 <impomatic_> I've no idea where it came from... 22:33:28 <Bike> er, are you not john metcalf, sorry 22:34:15 <Bike> if you search "gpc" on omronkft you'll find a number of manuals 22:35:50 -!- ragnaroek has joined. 22:37:21 <impomatic_> I'm John Metcalf :-) 22:37:56 <impomatic_> I've just found another Omron box and a cable. Will try connecting them later. (It boots up okay into a menu). 22:39:18 <Bike> you should use it to set up your very own assembly line 22:39:28 <Bike> producing omron graphic programming controllers, perhaps 22:40:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:41:27 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:49:22 * impomatic_ is playing with this one now https://twitter.com/john_metcalf/status/480120069314596865 22:50:11 <Bike> #supercomputing 22:54:30 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:56:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:58:43 -!- Bike has joined. 22:58:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:13:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:13:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:13:58 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 23:15:08 -!- Bike has joined. 23:32:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:34:37 -!- Bike has joined. 23:46:50 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 23:47:57 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:50:00 <oerjan> fantastic, someone got /r/redditrequests banned... 23:50:36 <oerjan> oh wait it shouldn't have the s 23:55:55 <boily> how do you ban a subreddit itself? 23:58:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:58:36 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2014-06-21: 00:00:45 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:06:36 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:07:40 <oerjan> boily: by using it only for spam, i think. 00:08:15 <oerjan> at least the message speaks of spam filters 00:09:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:10:03 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:10:33 <boily> tdsh. 00:10:51 <boily> and now, time for a good coma session. 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14:31:01 <boily> I'm reading The City & The City, by China Miéville. 14:31:07 <boily> that is one weeeeeird book. 14:31:11 <Quintopia> is it HORRIFIC 14:31:25 <Quintopia> weird is what i would expect 14:31:35 <boily> it's not horrific. at least not yet. 14:35:12 -!- conehead has joined. 14:35:42 <boily> Quintopia: are you reading interesting stuff as of lately too? 14:36:05 <oerjan> i once read City by clifford Simak hth 14:36:29 <oerjan> (that's also weird. of course it's scifi.) 14:36:45 <Quintopia> when i searched for the city and the city, a play at the lifeline theater came up. then the wikipedia said it was an adaptation of the book to the stage 14:37:01 <Quintopia> but the setting seems interesting. i'll consider it for a future read. 14:37:20 <Quintopia> boily: you'll call me woefully behind the times, but i'm reading american gods for the first time 14:37:57 <boily> I haven't read anything Gaiman yet. 14:39:38 <Quintopia> well, i like this one much better than the last one i read (and the last one was pretty awesome) 14:39:46 <Quintopia> but i'm biased because i'm american 14:41:21 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:43:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:53:07 <fizzie> And a god, too? 14:59:14 * boily lightly mapoles Quintopia to check if he's a god. «hmm... how does one mapoles for godhood?» 15:01:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:03:55 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:05:32 <oerjan> very very carefully 15:08:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:15:57 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 15:17:31 <boily> oerjan: the experience seems inconclusive. 15:20:29 -!- rodgort has joined. 15:23:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: inconclusive proves nothing!). 15:24:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNPROVABLE CHICKEN). 15:32:58 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 15:33:27 -!- password2 has joined. 15:34:18 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:48:26 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:49:39 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 15:56:13 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 16:11:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:14:32 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:14:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:18:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:18:57 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:32:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Polyglot]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39879 * Rdebath * (+413) WTF is this! 16:44:31 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:45:01 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:45:43 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 16:49:03 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 16:49:16 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:49:54 -!- vravn has joined. 16:51:57 -!- idris-bot has quit (Client Quit). 16:52:12 -!- idris-bot has joined. 17:09:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Witeal]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39880&oldid=39878 * Rdebath * (+410) 17:16:22 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 17:22:50 -!- lorenzo__ has joined. 17:24:56 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:27:31 -!- lorenzo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:37:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath/deadbeef]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39881 * Rdebath * (+4044) Nice little BF interpreter 17:39:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:39:50 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 17:39:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 17:44:03 -!- lorenzo__ has joined. 17:47:56 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:49:23 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:50:50 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:53:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39882&oldid=39702 * Rdebath * (+421) /* Optimizing implementations */ 17:56:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39883&oldid=39882 * Rdebath * (+0) Libbf does a lot of optimisation 18:15:37 -!- lorenzo__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:25:22 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:25:48 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^vbot. 18:26:22 -!- Bike has joined. 18:26:32 -!- Bike has quit (Client Quit). 18:27:12 -!- Bike has joined. 18:45:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:49:06 -!- ^vbot has changed nick to ^v. 18:52:00 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 19:05:35 -!- conehead has joined. 19:06:12 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 19:08:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:20:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 19:37:38 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:46:02 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:48:27 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:50:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:53:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ashtol]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39884&oldid=39163 * 188.192.76.116 * (+275) /* External Resources */ Added Lua Interpreter for Ashtol by Michael Armbruster 20:06:57 -!- edwardk has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:11:16 <zzo38> Do you know if it is possible on Android to add an icon for locally downloaded HTML+JavaScript files? 20:12:38 -!- edwardk has joined. 20:12:58 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 20:15:23 -!- variable has joined. 20:17:27 <fizzie> Hm. I could navigate to file:///sdcard/.../blah.html in Chrome (stock Android 4.4.2) and successfully select "Add to homescreen" from the menu, but tapping on the resulting icon just results in the message "App isn't installed." 20:19:26 <zzo38> Maybe you have to put it in the internal NVRAM instead of SD card? (Does it even have internal NVRAM or Flash memory that can be used for this purpose?) 20:20:35 <fizzie> I also have "ES File Explorer" installed, and it's "Add to desktop" option generated a sort-of working icon. 20:21:17 <fizzie> Tapping on it opens the "what do you want to open it with" dialog. 20:21:40 <zzo38> Why is the built-in option not working though? 20:22:19 <fizzie> This is all in built-in memory; despite the /sdcard in the patg, there's no SD card slot in this device. 20:22:53 <zzo38> O, then why does it say that? Is that why it says it isn't installed? 20:23:05 <fizzie> I don't know why the Chrome icon does not work. It works for a http:// link. 20:25:47 <zzo38> Perhaps this is a bug that they forgot to specify the built-in program associated with file: URLs. 20:27:10 <zzo38> Can you avoid the "what do you want to open it with" dialog if you have option to "add to desktop with" menu? 20:43:25 <fizzie> The dialog has a choice between "just once" and "always", so I suspect selecting the latter makes it stop asking. Though I don't know if the choice is particular to the link or the type of file or what. 21:03:12 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 21:05:33 -!- lollo64it has joined. 21:05:48 <mroman> I'd like to have an option "for the next N times" 21:13:07 <b_jonas> maybe after n times you can find some setting where you reset it 21:15:27 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:30:42 -!- ragnaroek has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:42:25 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:52:15 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 21:52:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:13:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:14:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:22:42 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:46:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:08:39 -!- yorick has joined. 23:11:17 -!- ragnaroek has joined. 23:21:20 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:22:24 <oerjan> ooh they managed to take over /r/physics 23:23:54 <oerjan> well /u/regua did, i guess he was the first to officially try 23:24:11 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:24:15 <oerjan> finally there may be some moderation again 23:25:21 <oerjan> quite possibly more than under the old moderator, who believed strongly in moderation while moderating. 23:27:07 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:28:45 <oerjan> on the downside, that inflation discovery from earlier this year seems more and more uncertain :( 23:29:06 <Quintopia> what was the result again? i think i vaguely remember 23:30:30 <oerjan> they found a type of polarization in the cosmic microwave background that they thought was produced from gravitional waves left over from the universe's first fraction of a second, when it was inflating. 23:31:26 <oerjan> but later the critisism has grown that they underestimated the effect of galactic dust, which is similar 23:31:35 <oerjan> *criticism 23:32:55 <oerjan> although they are waiting for results from other telescopes (planck being the name of one) to confirm or reject 23:33:38 <Quintopia> right on 23:39:21 <oerjan> ooh i reloaded and the newsgroup has got tags on the posts 23:39:26 <oerjan> er 23:39:29 <oerjan> *subreddit 23:39:48 <oerjan> it's as close as you get on the modern web, anyway 23:41:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:43:05 <oerjan> although to be honest it looks a bit noisy to me. 23:53:09 <oerjan> wait am i forgetting to eat again 23:54:00 <MDude> You're just waiting for me to eat. 23:54:27 <MDude> But the lasagna is taking too long in the over over here. 23:54:31 <MDude> *oven 2014-06-22: 00:02:17 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 00:02:37 -!- lollo64it has joined. 00:06:23 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:15:32 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:20:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 00:22:25 <oerjan> MDude: can i start eating now? 00:22:52 <oerjan> wait 00:22:54 <oerjan> *may 00:23:32 * oerjan interprets silence as agreement 00:26:15 <MDude> Yes. 00:38:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:57:18 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 01:02:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:02:27 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:16:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:18:03 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:22:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:22:23 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 01:45:12 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:47:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:50:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:51:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:54:42 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:54:43 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 03:01:27 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:01:52 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:02:02 -!- HackEgo has joined. 03:08:07 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:18:02 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:18:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:24:32 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:02:57 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 04:16:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:29:04 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 04:30:50 -!- FireFly has joined. 04:35:38 <zzo38> Is it possible to program Mozilla to rewrite URLs? 04:49:19 <MDude> You mean in the address bar, or in page links? 04:49:20 <MDude> Also 04:49:24 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:49:51 <ais523> zzo38: I tried to write an extension to do that, I failed (but I didn't try very hard) 04:50:01 <ais523> I'm pretty sure it's possible, but am surprised that it doesn't seem to have been done already 04:52:25 <zzo38> I mean in page links 04:52:37 <zzo38> As well as redirects and stuff like that 04:55:33 -!- brandonson has joined. 04:58:38 -!- singingboyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:06:02 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:06:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:06:40 -!- ais523 has joined. 05:08:34 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 05:09:56 -!- ^v has joined. 05:12:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:12:32 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 05:33:27 <Sgeo> Does using something like Charles or Fiddler to force that URL to respond as a 302 count? 05:33:35 <Sgeo> I do that sort of thing (well, maybe not exactly) all the time 05:35:25 <ais523> Sgeo: clever 05:38:03 -!- brandonson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:50:33 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:55:11 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:11:23 -!- password2 has joined. 06:31:34 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 06:35:43 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:48:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:07:43 -!- conehead has joined. 07:10:09 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:24:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39885&oldid=39782 * Rdebath * (+1601) Upgrade of the awk based converter 07:31:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:32:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:33:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:33:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 07:48:27 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:55:38 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:03:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39886&oldid=39885 * Rdebath * (+0) /* Current Version of the awk based converter */ 08:04:03 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 08:28:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:44:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:47:21 -!- realzies has quit (Quit: realzies). 08:48:14 -!- realzies has joined. 08:49:05 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:48:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:50:00 <Phantom_Hoover> http://imgur.com/a/bDGRU 09:50:03 <Phantom_Hoover> holy shit 09:50:14 <Phantom_Hoover> i need to go back in time 150 years and get a maths degree then 09:52:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39887&oldid=39858 * Zzo38 * (+1122) 09:59:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39888&oldid=39887 * Zzo38 * (+503) Typeclass definition 10:06:44 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:11:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39889&oldid=39888 * Zzo38 * (+324) 10:13:15 <zzo38> Now I have described more about how classes work in Gentzen programming language. 10:22:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39890&oldid=39889 * Zzo38 * (+38) 10:23:49 -!- lollo64it has joined. 10:24:33 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:25:23 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:34:38 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 10:42:51 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 10:47:20 -!- Burton has joined. 10:51:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:29:46 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:48:28 -!- boily has joined. 12:08:48 -!- password2 has joined. 12:31:00 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 12:39:53 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 12:41:58 <password2> g 12:42:14 <boily> ggGgGGGGgggg gGGgGG? 12:43:36 <password2> yes 12:46:34 <boily> not quite, but if so, then it. but yet... maybe? 12:48:16 <password2> almost , more less than bigger 12:49:32 <boily> rather almost. 12:50:02 -!- yorick has joined. 12:54:33 <int-e> boily: that's an awful password 12:56:23 <mroman> Why not 12:56:27 <mroman> It has lower case, upper case 12:56:35 <mroman> and two special characters space and ? 12:56:40 <mroman> and it' looong 12:59:44 <olsner> hm, this is stupid, I made a programming language (some time ago) and it has the same thing as c/c++ where some bits of the grammar depend on whether or not a name is known to be a type 13:22:41 -!- mhi^ has joined. 13:23:40 <boily> int-e: I like passwords like *******. 13:24:00 <boily> olsner: which bits? 13:28:16 <olsner> well, the grammar might or might not actually be ambiguous, but my parser needs to know that foo is a type to parse declarations like foo bar; 13:33:00 <boily> oh. indeed. 13:33:23 <boily> remove ambiguity and make everything a type :D 13:35:31 <olsner> that could work 13:35:59 <olsner> or remove the syntax for type annotations once I do type inference 13:41:49 <mroman> well 13:41:55 <mroman> what could foo be else if not a type? 13:47:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:56:13 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:59:58 -!- vifino has joined. 14:00:04 <vifino> I am mad 14:00:18 <vifino> I just created two esolangs .-. 14:00:36 <nortti> why is that bad? 14:00:54 <vifino> Because it was fun 14:00:58 <oerjan> `? mad 14:00:59 <HackEgo> ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here." 14:01:00 <vifino> Enough fun to do another one 14:01:25 <vifino> First i made DeadFish+, 14:01:30 <vifino> then i made swaglang 14:01:36 <vifino> ( WIP name :P ) 14:01:37 <idris-bot> (input):1:10: error: expected: "$", 14:01:37 <idris-bot> "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 14:01:37 <idris-bot> "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 14:01:37 <idris-bot> "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 14:01:37 <idris-bot> ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 14:01:45 <vifino> wat 14:02:10 <nortti> it's a bot that uses ( as prefix 14:02:20 <vifino> k 14:03:01 <vifino> currently i am fixing the loops 14:03:14 <vifino> Well, they work... 14:03:26 <vifino> just not the way i intended them 14:03:59 <olsner> mroman: an expression ... at least until you parse far enough to notice that you have an "expression" followed by something other than the end of the expression statement 14:04:11 <oerjan> let me guess, they're always run at least once? 14:04:27 <oerjan> (common error when implementing brainfuck) 14:05:24 <boily> vifino: we have bots. many of them. 14:05:30 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:05:36 <vifino> hehe 14:05:59 <vifino> well, my bot carries the burden of my two langs, and brainfuck 14:06:03 <vifino> + encoder 14:06:21 <oerjan> fizzie: excuse me where is fungot when we try to show him off 14:07:12 <boily> fizzie: FUNGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! 14:07:54 <vifino> FUN, GOD! 14:08:43 <oerjan> `rot13 v'yy unir gb fgrc va 14:08:43 <HackEgo> i'll have to step in 14:09:11 <boily> ~duck anatidae 14:09:11 <metasepia> The Anatidae are the biological family of birds that includes ducks, geese and swans. The family has a cosmopolitan distribution, occurring on all the world's continents except Antarctica and on most of the world's islands and island groups. These are birds that are adapted through evolution for swimming, floating on the water surface, and in some cases diving in at least shallow water. The family contains around 146 species in 40 genera. They are ge 14:09:16 <password2> nice , i have an bf^ bot 14:09:21 <oerjan> 3d6 14:09:21 <lambdabot> oerjan: 1+3+1 => 5 14:10:01 <nortti> foo 3d6 14:10:06 <oerjan> `relcome vifino 14:10:07 <HackEgo> ​vifino: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:10:07 <nortti> 3d6 foo 14:10:14 <vifino> ........... 14:10:58 <fizzie> Uup. 14:11:22 -!- fungot has joined. 14:11:25 <fizzie> There you go. 14:11:29 <oerjan> fungot: good morning! 14:11:29 <fungot> oerjan: hangman's fnord toi on fnord :(. 14:11:35 <boily> oh, we haven't `relcomed people in a long time! 14:11:37 <fizzie> Good first impression there. 14:11:51 <fizzie> fungot: You only get one chance to make a first impression! 14:11:52 <fungot> fizzie: no matter how many times do you get that font from? 14:11:52 <boily> fungot: so, how've you been? 14:11:52 <fungot> boily: i'm not saying cl is braindead. okay... so you really need 14:12:09 <oerjan> ~duck anatidaephobia 14:12:10 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 14:12:24 <boily> oerjan: shush! don't try anything logical with the duck! 14:12:31 <olsner> `quote fungot 14:12:31 <fungot> olsner: sarahbot is back, hmmmm, i liked them so far in sicp yet :) got distracted with an fnord tone. but that's not the rhythm 14:12:31 <HackEgo> 10) <fungot> GregorR-L: i bet only you can prevent forest fires. basically, you know. \ 13) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it. \ 14) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. plea 14:13:34 <oerjan> boily: strictly speaking that's not actually logical, but don't tell that to gary larson 14:13:44 <boily> vifino: for further details, take a look at the PDF linked in the topic. it explains... well. it explains stuff. 14:14:02 <olsner> `? for further details 14:14:03 <HackEgo> who knows 14:14:05 <olsner> `? further details 14:14:06 <HackEgo> further details? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:14:32 <olsner> hmm, where did that start again ... never mind 14:14:57 <oerjan> `run grep 'further details' wisdom/* 14:14:59 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/d: Is a directory \ wisdom/for further details.:See `? for further details for futher details. \ wisdom/for further details for futher details.:See `? for further details for futher details. \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory 14:15:27 <oerjan> argh 14:17:40 <oerjan> `run grep 'further details' wisdom/* 2&>/dev/null 14:17:41 <HackEgo> No output. 14:17:47 <oerjan> `run grep 'further details' wisdom/* 2>&/dev/null 14:17:48 <HackEgo> bash: /dev/null: ambiguous redirect 14:18:22 <oerjan> wait how can there be no output 14:18:40 <oerjan> 2 is the fd for stderr, no? 14:18:54 <oerjan> oh wait 14:19:05 <oerjan> `run grep 'further details' wisdom/* 2>/dev/null 14:19:06 <HackEgo> wisdom/for further details.:See `? for further details for futher details. \ wisdom/for further details for futher details.:See `? for further details for futher details. 14:19:16 <olsner> `run grep 'further details' wisdom/* 2>&- 14:19:17 <HackEgo> wisdom/for further details.:See `? for further details for futher details. \ wisdom/for further details for futher details.:See `? for further details for futher details. 14:19:41 <oerjan> ..wat. 14:20:26 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; grep -l 'further details' * 2>/dev/null 14:20:27 <HackEgo> for further details. \ for further details for futher details. 14:20:49 <vifino> 'sauce 14:20:51 <oerjan> `run cd wisdom; grep -l 'details' * 2>/dev/null 14:20:52 <HackEgo> for further details. \ for further details for futher details. \ goat \ monqy 14:20:55 <vifino> 'source 14:20:57 <vifino> D:< 14:21:02 <oerjan> it's not a ' 14:21:07 <vifino> wat 14:21:13 <vifino> ´sauce 14:21:21 <vifino> ´source 14:21:26 <vifino> ´repo 14:21:27 <vifino> D:< 14:21:34 <vifino> y u do dis 14:21:43 <oerjan> it's not that either. is your terminal munging quotes? 14:21:46 <oerjan> or client 14:22:22 <vifino> idk! D; 14:22:53 <oerjan> `? goat 14:22:54 <HackEgo> Goats are drunk 24/7, ask Solain for details. 14:23:00 <oerjan> `source 14:23:01 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found 14:23:05 <oerjan> hm 14:23:06 <vifino> leeeel 14:23:09 <boily> vifino: can you type a backquote? 14:23:15 <vifino> id k 14:23:21 <vifino> ` 14:23:21 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 14:23:24 <vifino> yes 14:23:30 <oerjan> `help 14:23:30 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 14:23:41 <boily> ^prefixes 14:23:42 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 14:23:47 <vifino> `ls 14:23:48 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 14:23:49 <password2> ' 14:23:52 <vifino> :o 14:24:01 <vifino> `pwd 14:24:02 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv 14:24:06 <oerjan> that's not actually the source for the bot itself, though, just its directory contents 14:24:07 <password2> ` 14:24:07 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 14:24:12 <oerjan> which are extensive, mind you 14:24:19 <password2> copy pasta 14:24:32 <vifino> `echo "Moop!" > moop.txt 14:24:33 <HackEgo> ​"Moop!" > moop.txt 14:24:37 <vifino> :I 14:24:41 <vifino> y 14:24:49 <vifino> `run echo "Moop!" > moop.txt 14:24:50 <HackEgo> No output. 14:24:54 <vifino> \o/ 14:24:54 <myndzi> | 14:24:54 <myndzi> /`\ 14:24:59 <vifino> wat 14:25:05 <vifino> \o/ 14:25:06 <myndzi> | 14:25:06 <myndzi> |\ 14:25:08 <vifino> lel 14:25:27 <vifino> 'cat moop.txt 14:25:33 <vifino> `cat moop.txt 14:25:33 <HackEgo> Moop! 14:25:36 <vifino> YES 14:25:39 <vifino> LELELELELELL 14:25:43 <boily> you just triggered myndzi, our own half-human half-bot resident! (even if his claims to humanness are unfounded.) 14:26:11 <vifino> `ls 14:26:11 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ moop.txt \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 14:26:28 <vifino> ls /hackenv 14:26:32 <vifino> `ls /hackenv 14:26:33 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ moop.txt \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 14:26:45 <password2> `cat index.html 14:26:45 <HackEgo> ​<html> \ <head> \ <title>Psychose</title> \ </head> \ \ <body>Yayyyy!</body> \ </html> 14:27:02 <password2> `tac index.html 14:27:03 <HackEgo> ​</html> \ <body>Yayyyy!</body> \ \ </head> \ <title>Psychose</title> \ <head> \ <html> 14:27:07 <vifino> HackEgo seem a bit unprotected and abusable 14:27:13 <vifino> `cowsay mooo 14:27:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cowsay: not found 14:27:15 <password2> nice bot you got here 14:27:15 <boily> HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! 14:27:17 <vifino> :s 14:27:19 <oerjan> `? HackEgo 14:27:20 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. 14:27:32 <password2> `sl 14:27:33 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sl: not found 14:27:33 <vifino> :s 14:27:37 <boily> vifino: sorry. HackEgo probably is the most anything-proof bot we have here. 14:27:38 <password2> awe 14:27:44 <password2> it need sl 14:27:51 <vifino> :S 14:28:04 <oerjan> boily: i dunno, i don't think anyone has hacked fungot yet 14:28:04 <fungot> oerjan: good eye! i'm indeed using drscheme! do you know a portable way to have something 14:28:07 <olsner> password2: sl running over IRC would be more than a little obnoxious 14:28:17 <password2> :D 14:28:20 <boily> oerjan: indeed. fungot is quite robust too. 14:28:21 <fungot> boily: 55 mins??? lst)...) 14:28:32 <password2> choo choo muthafuckers 14:28:55 <boily> password2: I like trains. 14:29:20 <boily> vifino: if you want to have fun with a not-very-stable bot with probably more holes than a pound of gruyère, try metasepia. 14:29:43 <vifino> metasepia: WAZZAP 14:29:45 <vifino> lel 14:30:01 <oerjan> ~echo hi 14:30:02 <metasepia> hi 14:30:17 <vifino> ~ls 14:30:17 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 14:30:28 <vifino> ~eval ls 14:30:28 <metasepia> Error (127): 14:30:37 <vifino> ~eval print("wat") 14:30:37 <metasepia> Error (127): 14:30:39 <vifino> :s 14:30:44 <vifino> wat lang is dis! 14:30:55 <boily> oh. yeah. I forgot to update the env on this machine... >_>'... 14:30:59 <password2> metasepia, duck dice 14:31:08 <boily> ~duck dice 14:31:13 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 14:31:16 <password2> ~dice 14:31:16 <boily> ~duck die 14:31:17 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 14:31:17 <metasepia> --- ~dice sides [number] 14:31:17 <metasepia> --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 14:31:20 <oerjan> ~eval cycle "Haskell! " 14:31:21 <metasepia> Error (127): 14:31:30 <password2> ~dice inf 14:31:30 <metasepia> --- ~dice sides [number] 14:31:31 <metasepia> --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 14:31:32 <oerjan> ): 14:31:35 <boily> oerjan: it may be missing some libs hth 14:31:38 <password2> ~dice -1 14:31:39 <metasepia> --- ~dice sides [number] 14:31:39 <metasepia> --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 14:31:46 <oerjan> boily: that's prelude hth 14:31:50 <password2> ~dice -1 2 14:31:50 <metasepia> --- ~dice sides [number] 14:31:50 <metasepia> --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 14:31:52 <oerjan> ~eval cycle "Haskell! " 14:31:53 <metasepia> Error (127): 14:31:55 <password2> meh 14:31:59 <password2> ~dice 1 2 14:31:59 <metasepia> 1 1 --- Sum = 2 14:32:02 <oerjan> ~eval "Haskell! " 14:32:02 <metasepia> Error (127): 14:32:06 <password2> ~dice 1 22222 14:32:06 <metasepia> 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 14:32:06 <boily> oerjan: I know. it's trying to import stuff that doesn't exist. 14:32:06 -!- metasepia has quit (Excess Flood). 14:32:17 <password2> :D 14:32:18 <boily> ah! neat! 14:32:29 <password2> that was easy 14:32:35 <oerjan> boily: ಠ_ಠ 14:32:35 <myndzi> ¯|¯⌠ 14:32:36 <myndzi> /'\| 14:32:40 <vifino> leeel 14:32:45 <vifino> myndzi is neat 14:32:51 <oerjan> ^celebrate 14:32:51 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 14:32:51 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 14:32:52 <myndzi> |\ c.c >\ >\| | >\ c.c /´\ | >\|/´\ c.c >\ 14:32:52 <boily> `celebrate 14:32:52 <myndzi> /'¯|_) /'\ 14:32:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: celebrate: not found 14:32:52 <myndzi> (_| (_| |_) 14:33:05 * boily whistles innocently 14:33:05 <password2> myndzi, is cool 14:33:13 <password2> \W/ 14:33:25 <password2> \0/ 14:33:29 <olsner> `? myndzi 14:33:30 <HackEgo> myndzi keeps us all on our feet 14:33:33 <password2> \o/ 14:33:34 <myndzi> | 14:33:34 <myndzi> >\ 14:33:41 <oerjan> password2: sorry, no alien monsters 14:33:46 <password2> it died 14:33:56 <boily> oh well. time to mysteriously disappear and go eat some eggs benedict and play mahjong. 役満万歳! 14:33:56 <oerjan> except possibly that c.c not sure what it is 14:33:57 <myndzi> c.c.c 14:33:57 <myndzi> c.c 14:33:57 <password2> \/ 14:34:05 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 14:34:11 <password2> soccerball? 14:34:14 <olsner> looks multiocular to me 14:34:46 <password2> \\o0o// 14:34:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:35:21 <olsner> but I think the channel's obsession with multiocular o's is more recent than that script, so maybe not 14:36:01 <password2> d.d 14:36:09 <vifino> dd 14:36:10 <vifino> lel 14:36:40 <oerjan> olsner: myndzi's script has been updated, i think the c.c may very well have been multiocularly inspired 14:36:40 <myndzi> c.c.c 14:36:40 <myndzi> c.c 14:37:32 <oerjan> `quote alphanumeric 14:37:33 <HackEgo> 1140) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric." 14:38:06 <ion> trypꙮphobia c.c 14:38:06 <myndzi> c.c.c 14:38:06 <myndzi> c.c 14:38:22 <password2> c.c.c.c 14:38:22 <myndzi> c.c.c 14:38:23 <myndzi> c.c 14:38:32 <password2> c.c c.c 14:38:32 <myndzi> c.c.c 14:38:32 <myndzi> c.c 14:38:39 <password2> mmm 14:38:49 <oerjan> there are some bugs with that 14:39:12 <oerjan> c.c.c 14:39:13 <myndzi> c.c.c 14:39:13 <myndzi> c.c 14:39:31 <oerjan> unless he fixed them 14:39:35 <password2> \o/ c.c 14:39:36 <myndzi> | c.c.c 14:39:36 <myndzi> /< c.c 14:40:15 <ion> Too bad both my IRC client and myndzi try compensate for nick lenghts independently. 14:40:19 <ion> s/try // 14:40:49 <password2> ah , thats why is not always right here 14:40:54 <oerjan> hm it's lucky that ^celebrate is on fungot which has the same length then 14:40:54 <fungot> oerjan: ( or did you just automatically reconnecting? :) ( aren't i lazy :p) ( although, not pushing any one in the book 14:41:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:41:29 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:42:08 <oerjan> myndzi assumes that nicks align to the left 14:42:30 <oerjan> there's no way to support both conventions 14:43:27 <nooodl> sure there is 14:43:37 <nooodl> ban everyone who doesn't have a six letter nickname 14:43:58 <nooodl> oerjan, myndzi, fungot, me: the enlightened ones 14:43:58 <fungot> nooodl: well, you could just use a cons, you should be able to 14:44:17 -!- password2 has changed nick to passwo. 14:44:25 <passwo> :p 14:44:56 <oerjan> nooodl: so simple! 14:45:14 <olsner> `quote rounded 14:45:14 <HackEgo> 800) <olsner> it's not completely obvious since the displayed nick lengths are rounded to the closest integer 14:45:15 <mroman> Yeah, just use cons. 14:45:23 <mroman> !help 14:45:24 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>. 14:45:29 <mroman> !help lisp 14:45:29 <olsner> I don't remember the context, but it could have been this 14:45:30 <EgoBot> ​Sorry, I have no help for lisp! 14:45:32 <mroman> :( 14:45:35 <mroman> No lisp :( 14:45:45 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:46:47 <oerjan> it doesn't give help for individual languages 14:46:56 <oerjan> !help languages 14:46:56 <EgoBot> ​languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 14:47:09 <oerjan> not that i think it has lisp 14:48:12 <passwo> !help boolfuck 14:48:12 <EgoBot> ​Sorry, I have no help for boolfuck! 14:48:16 <oerjan> !unlambda `.!`.i`.hi 14:48:18 <EgoBot> hi! 14:48:48 <oerjan> ^scramble scramble 14:48:48 <fungot> srmlebac 14:49:13 <oerjan> ^unscramble unscramble 14:49:13 <fungot> uenlsbcmra 14:49:14 <passwo> ^scramble boooooooobs 14:49:14 <fungot> boooosboooo 14:50:59 <passwo> how many bots is in this room? 14:51:22 -!- blsqbot has joined. 14:51:24 <mroman> One more now. 14:51:35 <passwo> rolf 14:51:47 <mroman> !blsq "booooobs"R@5!! 14:51:48 <blsqbot> "bo" 14:51:48 <blsqbot> 0.1562598s 14:51:52 <mroman> !blsq "booooobs"r@5!! 14:51:53 <blsqbot> "booooobs" 14:51:53 <blsqbot> 0.015608s 14:52:48 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 14:53:00 <mroman> blsqbot please do quit 14:53:00 -!- blsqbot has quit (Client Quit). 14:53:35 <passwo> so obedient 14:53:43 -!- passwordBOT has joined. 14:55:40 <oerjan> passwo: i see applybot clog glogbot HackEgo idris-bot fungot EgoBot lambdabot oh there's one more passwordBOT so 9 14:55:41 <fungot> oerjan: i smell. it was a joke in there that you don't) then sicp is an awesome book 14:55:58 <passwo> +bf:>> 14:56:07 <passwo> +bf:>> 14:56:08 <passwordBOT> 0 0 |0| 14:56:17 <passwo> there we go 14:56:26 <passwo> thats all mine does 14:57:08 <passwo> looking at the code , i definitely had too much time then 14:58:00 <oerjan> this means, shockingly, that we're back below 10% bots again 14:58:02 <b_jonas> `coins 14:58:04 <HackEgo> ​lazecoin lynncoin chalcoin llentalk:braicoin tantcoin immercoin auocoin ooicoin clesiscoin gomcoin ethcoin huncoin proogcoin ///coin mercacoin enigcoin nowrcoin phisioncoin muvcoin falgecoin 14:58:08 <elliott> oerjan: you forgot me 14:58:16 <b_jonas> `style BANCStar 14:58:16 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: style: not found 14:58:37 <passwo> +bfsetresetoff 14:58:59 -!- passwordBOT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:59:04 <passwo> lol 14:59:23 <passwo> note to self , closing application causes bot to quit 15:00:59 -!- blsqbot has joined. 15:01:03 <mroman> !foo (add $0 1) 15:01:03 <blsqbot> Value 1 15:01:03 <blsqbot> 0.0156048s 15:01:06 <mroman> !foo (add $0 2) 15:01:06 <blsqbot> Value 2 15:01:06 <blsqbot> 0s 15:02:06 <mroman> !foo (if== $0 0 (r 5) (if== $0 1 1 (if== 1 (odd $0) (r (add (mul 3 $0) 1)) (r (div $0 2))))) 15:02:07 <blsqbot> Value 1 15:02:07 <blsqbot> 0s 15:02:14 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:03:21 <mroman> !foo (if== $0 0 (r 5) (if== $0 1 1 (mul $0 (r (sub $0 1))))) 15:03:21 <blsqbot> Value 120 15:03:22 <blsqbot> 0s 15:03:23 <oerjan> passwo: it's when closing the application does _not_ do that you need to be worried for the safety of humanity hth 15:03:55 <mroman> !foo (if== $0 0 (r 6) (if== $0 1 1 (mul $0 (r (sub $0 1))))) 15:03:55 <blsqbot> Value 720 15:03:55 <blsqbot> 0.0156048s 15:03:59 <mroman> yay. 15:04:23 -!- realzies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:04:24 <passwo> very true oerjan 15:04:42 <nooodl> what language is !foo 15:04:45 -!- passwordBOT has joined. 15:05:04 <passwo> i hve seen foo everywhere 15:05:19 <mroman> nooodl: Doesn't have a fixed name yet 15:05:46 <mroman> Essentially $n refers to arguments 15:05:55 <mroman> r is the recursion Operator 15:05:56 <nooodl> r is recurse? 15:05:57 <passwo> +bflist: 15:06:04 <nooodl> and it's called with $0=0 first? 15:06:30 <passwo> mmm 15:06:33 <passwo> +bflist: 15:06:34 <passwordBOT> Commands are +bflist: +bf: +bfreset: +bfdump: +bfdumpascii:. This bf interpreter has pointer too!Type +bfop: for a qiuck list 15:06:40 <passwo> ah 15:07:01 -!- realz has joined. 15:07:02 <passwo> lol at the engrish 15:08:03 -!- blsqbot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:09:26 <mroman> nooodl: Exactly 15:09:36 -!- blsqbot has joined. 15:09:37 <mroman> my isp just went down :) 15:09:55 <mroman> !foo (if== $0 0 (r 5 5) (add $0 $1)) 15:09:55 <blsqbot> Value 10 15:09:55 <blsqbot> 0s 15:11:54 <mroman> I intented to use it to teach programming by using a different approach then the "This is a PHP tutorial"-approach ;) 15:11:58 <mroman> *than 15:12:33 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:12:55 <mroman> More like a "Here's 10 esolangs"-approach 15:14:13 <Bike> 'how to learn ten shitty programming languages in an hour' sounds marketable 15:14:40 <mroman> Hey 15:14:42 <mroman> :( 15:17:08 <Bike> http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Languages-Weeks-Programming-Programmers/dp/193435659X 15:17:09 <mroman> It's not so much about actually learning the languages than about learning the concepts 15:18:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:21:34 <passwo> sounds good 15:24:33 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:31:37 -!- passwordBOT has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:32:44 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:32:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:33:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 15:35:47 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:40:28 -!- yiyus has joined. 15:45:41 <mroman> It's tough though 15:45:47 <mroman> Because it's such a wide spectrum 15:45:54 <mroman> at some point you have to get low level 15:45:58 <mroman> or if you start at low level 15:46:05 <mroman> at some point you have to go high level :) 15:50:08 <vifino> My lang now has if else end statements ^.^ 15:52:27 <mroman> nooodl: By convention $0 defines which function you want to call 15:52:29 <mroman> 0 being main 15:52:36 <mroman> Since you can't define multiple functions 15:52:56 <mroman> you encode which function to call in $0 and use if statements 16:06:04 <mroman> !foo /1 2\ 16:06:04 <blsqbot> That line gave me an error 16:06:04 <blsqbot> 0.0312337s 16:07:46 <mroman> !foo [1 2] 16:07:47 <blsqbot> List [Value 1,Value 2] 16:07:47 <blsqbot> 0.015622s 16:07:56 <mroman> !foo (cons $0 [1]) 16:07:57 <blsqbot> List [Get 0,Value 1] 16:07:57 <blsqbot> 0s 16:08:06 <mroman> lol 16:08:08 <mroman> ok 16:09:16 <mroman> !foo (head (cons $0 [1])) 16:09:16 <blsqbot> Uni "head" (Bin "cons" [Get 0,List [Value 1]]) 16:09:16 <blsqbot> 0.0156048s 16:09:47 <mroman> Looks like something is too lazy 16:10:47 <newsham> or maybe you humans are being too eager to get a solution ;-) 16:11:06 <mroman> !foo (head (cons $0 [1])) 16:11:06 <blsqbot> Get 0 16:11:06 <blsqbot> 0.0156094s 16:11:08 <Melvar> ^prefixes 16:11:08 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 16:11:20 <mroman> Lists aren't evaluated 16:11:27 <mroman> who needs evaluated lists anyway 16:12:29 <mroman> !foo (head (cons $0 [1])) 16:12:29 <blsqbot> Get 0 16:12:29 <blsqbot> 0.0156057s 16:12:41 <mroman> wth. 16:13:17 <mroman> !foo (head (cons $0 [1])) 16:13:18 <blsqbot> Value 0 16:13:18 <blsqbot> 0.033697s 16:13:19 <mroman> ah 16:13:24 <mroman> there we go 16:13:48 <mroman> !foo (head (cons $0 [$0])) 16:13:48 <blsqbot> Value 0 16:13:48 <blsqbot> 0s 16:17:12 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 16:20:54 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:21:11 -!- ^v has joined. 16:52:30 <mroman> !foo (tail [1 2 3 4]) 16:52:30 <blsqbot> That line gave me an error 16:52:30 <blsqbot> 0.0312324s 16:52:34 <mroman> :( 16:55:49 <mroman> !foo (tail [1 2 3 4]) 16:55:50 <blsqbot> List [Value 2,Value 3,Value 4] 16:55:50 <blsqbot> 0.0312319s 16:55:56 <mroman> !foo (null (tail [1 2 3 4])) 16:55:56 <blsqbot> Value 0 16:55:56 <blsqbot> 0.0156043s 16:56:31 <mroman> !foo (null (tail [1])) 16:56:31 <blsqbot> Value 1 16:56:31 <blsqbot> 0.0156202s 16:56:53 <passwo> pew 16:57:03 -!- passwo has changed nick to password2. 16:59:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39891&oldid=39890 * Zzo38 * (+581) 17:01:23 <vifino> Its advancing: http://hastebin.com/opuqemaqop 17:06:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39892&oldid=39891 * Zzo38 * (-78) 17:07:22 <zzo38> OK 17:10:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:28:47 <password2> i want to make game which teaches programming 17:28:59 <password2> where you have to buy each instruction 17:33:34 <vifino> Any recommendations on esolangs I could implement in my bot? 17:33:41 <password2> bf^ 17:34:19 <password2> because thats the only one i have 17:34:23 -!- passwordBOT has joined. 17:34:33 <vifino> bf is already implemented in mine 17:34:50 <vifino> so is lolcode and deadfish,deadfish+ and swaglang 17:35:08 <password2> bf^ > bf ,:P 17:35:15 <password2> +bfop: 17:35:29 <vifino> .-. 17:35:50 <password2> mmm 17:35:59 <password2> it always misses the first time 17:36:00 <password2> +bfop: 17:36:01 <passwordBOT> brainfuck^ opperators are []()<>+-{},. () is like [] except it uses the value the current cell points to , {} is like -+ except it dec/inc the value the cell points to 17:36:09 <password2> there we go 17:36:39 <password2> pointers is actually boring 17:37:04 <vifino> .-. 17:37:28 <password2> or I'm to stupid to use them properly in bf^ 17:38:53 <vifino> Others? 17:40:15 <password2> dunno 17:42:14 <password2> make your own esolang 17:42:27 <vifino> Already did. Two times. 17:42:32 <vifino> Today. 17:42:33 <password2> lol 17:42:34 <password2> ok 17:42:58 <MDude> Wittgen 17:43:07 <password2> someones productive/anti-productive today 17:43:15 <MDude> Then it can be a neuromorphic chatbot. 17:45:38 <MDude> I've been wondering what that language would even sue for input-output, and how it might actually get translated into some sort of neurological structure. 17:47:43 <MDude> That or mechanique, so we can have irc text adventures. 17:48:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:48:58 <MDude> Plus, that language also seems kinda suited to conversational bot stuff, in that a text adventure that's just a conversation with the bot seems like it'd work at least well as AIML. 17:49:11 -!- augur has joined. 17:50:31 -!- Bike has joined. 17:52:34 <vifino> Any requests that would be doable? 17:52:39 <vifino> .-. 17:53:02 <zzo38> I don't know? 17:56:42 <mroman> You could implement foo . 17:56:48 <mroman> It's very easy to implement 17:56:57 <mroman> :) 17:56:57 <MDude> Not sure what the requirements of doable are, please link vifino doability specifications. 17:57:37 <vifino> Something that has no input, only output, and accepts one liners 17:58:01 <MDude> Hmmm. 17:58:39 <MDude> I''d think input would actually be doable, just not interactive input. 17:58:59 <mroman> !foo (add 1 2) 17:58:59 <blsqbot> Value 3 17:58:59 <blsqbot> 0.0600375s 17:59:14 <vifino> MDude: .-. 17:59:16 <vifino> Yes 17:59:21 <vifino> no interactive input 18:00:35 <MDude> Make a language that only accept one-line programs, but which allows calling other programs as functions. 18:01:53 <vifino> .-. 18:02:28 <MDude> hmm 18:02:42 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:03:20 <MDude> Maybe something with reversible logic? 18:03:27 <vifino> Hmm? 18:04:45 <MDude> Reversible logic is just login wherein all operations are bijective. 18:06:23 <MDude> Here's a list of those that are propey categorized as such: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Reversible_computing 18:08:09 <vifino> .-. 18:08:20 <vifino> My lang is gud compared to brainfuck 18:08:32 <nooodl> what is .-. 18:08:47 <vifino> Current instruction set for swaglang http://hastebin.com/opuqemaqop 18:12:05 <vifino> Its kinda epic 18:12:48 <elliott> an epic swaglang 18:12:52 <int-e> right. a pastebin that requires javascript. brilliant 18:12:58 <elliott> I'm sure it's for the win 18:13:13 <password2> make a pastbin langage 18:13:23 <Bike> adapt your language to rquire it to be in heroic couplets, then we'll talk 18:13:34 <elliott> Bike: that's not #swag 18:13:48 <Bike> int-e: oh man look at the source 18:13:58 <Bike> content schmontent 18:14:42 <Bike> is textarea even allowed outside of forms? 18:15:22 <MDude> No villainous couplets? 18:15:53 <int-e> Bike: I did. There is some jquery stuff in there, and some hilight.js, but no paste. 18:15:59 <vifino> I like it tho :s 18:16:02 <Bike> that's what i mean. It Is Humorous 18:16:14 <int-e> apparently it has a twitter function 18:16:32 <Bike> MDude: it means iambic pentameter couplets, you philistine 18:17:40 <int-e> on the other hand it's lacking the usual google analytics crap. I'm almost willing to enable javascript for that. 18:17:43 <Bike> i will also accept alliterative verse, for extra #swag. 18:17:50 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:18:49 <int-e> (but of course it does fetch jquery from one of google's servers.) 18:19:03 <blsqbot> Swag 18:19:03 <blsqbot> 0.0270184s 18:19:07 -!- ragnaroek has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:20:31 <MDude> Bike: There's no no need to make fun of ancient palestine like that. 18:21:03 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistinism 18:23:49 <MDude> Well yeah. 18:23:59 <MDude> I don't think you understand puns. 18:24:47 <Bike> and i don't think you understand the exeter book!!! 18:28:43 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:29:53 <MDude> I don't think anyone's offered to teach me old English in the first place, but fair enough. 18:30:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:34:19 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 18:41:24 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:42:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:42:47 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:46:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:53:37 -!- augur has joined. 19:38:38 <mroman> !blsq 123456 2B!f: 19:38:39 <blsqbot> {{11 '0} {6 '1}} 19:38:39 <blsqbot> 0.0180106s 19:38:52 <mroman> !blsq 1234567 2B!f: 19:38:53 <blsqbot> {{11 '1} {10 '0}} 19:38:53 <blsqbot> 0.0100034s 19:47:33 -!- passwordBOT has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:48:33 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:07:36 -!- blsqbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:16:29 -!- lollo64it has joined. 20:24:27 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:24:45 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:27:30 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:31:37 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:44:32 <Sgeo> Some spam said this http://pastie.org/private/0ztiffrizazjjh14vl6dw 20:46:05 <Sgeo> Actually, apparently it was sent two days ago, and I didn't see it until today. So I guess I'm dead and didn't know it? 20:46:46 <MDude> I'll invite you to the funeral. 20:50:18 <int-e> Sgeo: You may be living a lie. [I wish I had come up with this pun myself] 20:53:09 <int-e> complete exchange, but where is it from? the esolang mailing list, perhaps? http://sprunge.us/PWdN 21:02:30 -!- conehead has joined. 21:19:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:38:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:40:28 -!- Bike has joined. 21:47:42 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:49:48 -!- Bike has joined. 22:07:43 -!- boily has joined. 22:08:35 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Me sais Laptop sleepy.). 22:11:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:12:11 <boily> hellœrjan. 22:12:43 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:13:34 <oerjan> evenoily 22:14:36 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:14:40 <boily> ~metar CYUL 22:14:40 <metasepia> CYUL 222200Z 20008KT 30SM FEW055 FEW240 23/10 A2997 RMK CU1CI1 CI TR SLP150 DENSITY ALT 1000FT 22:14:43 <boily> ~metar ENVA 22:14:44 <metasepia> ENVA 222150Z 29011KT 9999 SCT030 BKN051 10/05 Q1015 RMK WIND 670FT 29018KT 22:14:57 <oerjan> ooh service 22:15:05 <boily> uhm. it's always +10 on your end. 22:15:21 <oerjan> we're having a cold wave, naturally. 22:15:37 <oerjan> coldest june ever, or something. 22:16:04 <oerjan> apparently there's a pair of high/low pressure areas leading air from the north pole 22:16:56 <oerjan> or well, coldest stretch of june days. the beginning was pretty hot. 22:17:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:19:16 <oerjan> my mind is somehow assuming this means air has to go from somewhere else _to_ the north pole. maybe we finally get the ice free pole that has been predicted for a while 22:19:35 <oerjan> *hotter air 22:19:44 -!- rodgort has joined. 22:20:11 <oerjan> i wonder if anyone has made a comic of santa's workshop sinking... 22:20:52 <boily> https://www.facebook.com/DavidSuzuki/posts/10150423873498874 ? 22:21:23 <oerjan> googling that phrase seems to bring up a number of pages denying it will happen. 22:21:50 <oerjan> oh and that. 22:22:00 <oerjan> also i said *comic*, not discussion. sheeh. 22:22:03 <oerjan> *+s 22:24:17 <oerjan> this is merely descriptive http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/realityzone/UFNnosantacartoon.jpg 22:25:04 <oerjan> this was better. not really a comic though https://sassywire.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/santa2.jpg 22:28:00 <oerjan> ^prefixes 22:28:01 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 22:28:15 <oerjan> ^show prefixes 22:28:15 <fungot> (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !)S 22:28:39 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !)S 22:28:39 <fungot> Defined. 22:28:51 <oerjan> !cat bin/prefixes 22:28:51 <EgoBot> bin/prefixes 22:28:57 <oerjan> oops 22:29:03 <oerjan> `cat bin/prefixes 22:29:04 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !' 22:29:24 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/ircslave/bot/' bin/prefixes 22:29:25 <HackEgo> No output. 22:29:31 <oerjan> !show prefixes 22:29:31 <EgoBot> sh echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !' 22:29:39 <oerjan> !delinterp prefixes 22:29:39 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter prefixes deleted. 22:30:07 <oerjan> !addinterp prefixes sh echo 'Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot !' 22:30:07 <fungot> oerjan: what?! are you read? i still don't see how the varargs thing complicates typing much more than i do. i just don't enjoy writing in linj ( i did not 22:30:08 <EgoBot> ​Interpreter prefixes installed. 22:30:19 <oerjan> ^prefixes 22:30:19 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 22:30:23 <oerjan> `prefixes 22:30:23 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 22:30:26 <oerjan> !prefixes 22:30:26 <EgoBot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 22:30:36 <oerjan> good, good 22:47:08 -!- variable has changed nick to tout. 22:47:12 -!- tout has changed nick to trout. 22:54:34 -!- tswett has joined. 22:54:43 <tswett> So I thought of something. 22:55:14 <tswett> Applications often have things that are kind of like program flow, but aren't actually implemented as program flow. 22:56:30 <tswett> Like, suppose you have an application with a screen system, where screens form a tree, and each screen can only be accessed by entering it from the parent screen. 22:57:32 <tswett> You could, in theory, implement each screen as a subroutine, such that a screen is displayed when and only when that subroutine is running. Then the flow control correctly determines the order that screens can be accessed. 22:58:45 <boily> some kind of non-linear continuation-chained subroutines? 22:59:36 <tswett> They wouldn't need to be continuation-chained or anything, because the screens can only be accessed in, like, a subroutine-like way. 22:59:56 <tswett> Anyway. Alternatively, you could just keep the current screen in a variable, and have a single event loop that just processes input differently depending on what screen you happen to be on. 23:00:15 <boily> that feels very continuaty. 23:00:39 <tswett> So you're sort of simulating program control by just keeping the "execution pointer" in a variable and dealing with everything manually. 23:00:55 <tswett> Which makes me wonder if you could make a programming language where program flow isn't provided. 23:02:09 <tswett> So you can't just say "do A and then do B"; you have to somehow manually arrange things such that B is executed after A is executed. 23:06:33 * boily is confused 23:07:03 <tswett> Like, uhh. 23:07:18 <tswett> Suppose I want to write an interpreter for an ordinary imperative language. 23:08:54 <tswett> The interpreter is probably going to have a variable containing the inner program's stack, and there's going to be an indefinite loop that repeatedly looks at the stack, looks up the next instruction, executes it, and updates the stack accordingly. 23:13:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:13:39 <tswett> If you had a language without any built-in flow control, perhaps you'd have to simulate it by doing something like what this interpreter has to do. 23:15:21 -!- Bike has joined. 23:15:34 <tswett> So I was thinking maybe such a language would just have "whenever" statements. Whenever X, do Y. You can't say "whenever X, do Y and then do Z"; you have to just say "whenever X, do Y" and make Y be something that causes Z to execute later down the line. 23:15:41 <tswett> I was thinking that maybe the language could be called Whenever. 23:15:53 <tswett> But apparently there's already a language called Whenever. 23:16:49 <tswett> Which, sure enough, doesn't have control flow. 23:17:43 <boily> but your whenever sounds more whenevy than whenever. maybe you should call it Whenevest? 23:19:45 <oerjan> whenever 23:19:49 <oerjan> oops 23:20:20 <oerjan> whenever's defer statement seems like whenever statements, except with the opposite test 23:22:09 <tswett> Hm. So every language is supposed to be a subset of Haskell, right? 23:23:19 <tswett> E has a couple of interesting features. One of them is the "eventual send" primitive, which essentially lets you queue up an action to be performed later. 23:23:21 <oerjan> erm... 23:23:29 <tswett> The other is the way references work. 23:23:53 <tswett> In E, when you queue up an action, you immediately get a reference to the result of the action, even though the action hasn't been performed yet. 23:25:02 <tswett> When queueing up an action, you can use one of these "delayed references" the same way you could use any other reference. 23:25:05 <oerjan> i suppose you could do that in haskell with some threads and unsafeInterleaveIO 23:25:59 <oerjan> well it wouldn't be pure 23:26:02 <tswett> In E, these references are transparent, but no power is lost if you use a subset of E where all of these references must be explicitly waited upon. 23:26:14 <tswett> You can say "when reference X resolves, perform action Y". 23:26:27 <tswett> Naturally, you immediately get a reference to the result of action Y, even though it hasn't been performed yet. 23:26:51 <tswett> So I think all this adds up to exactly one special thing you can do in E. 23:27:17 <tswett> Namely: queue up a function call with some "delayed references" as arguments and receive a "delayed reference" to the result of the function. 23:33:30 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 23:39:01 <tswett> Well, okay, there's one more interesting feature of E. References can refer to objects on other machines. 23:39:21 <Phantom_Hoover> i am amazed at how many people trying to explain closures on the internet think they're the same as anonymous functions 23:42:21 <tswett> Ignoring the thing about objects on other machines, I think this is what these "delayed references" come down to: 23:42:32 <pikhq> To be fair, few languages have anonymous functions that don't close. 23:42:36 <tswett> type Eventually a; instance Monad Eventually; queueUp :: Eventually (IO a) -> IO (Eventually a) 23:44:27 <tswett> Well, that doesn't quite do it. In E, if you queue up a job to be performed, it is guaranteed that the job will not begin until the current job has ended. 23:44:39 <tswett> Haskell doesn't have a notion of "the current job". 23:47:29 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, but they all have nonymous functions that close too 23:47:50 <pikhq> *nod* 23:48:22 <tswett> I suppose you could just add another function, jobDone :: IO a, which ends the current job and grabs one from the queue. 23:48:46 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i think that would be "onymous" 23:48:53 <tswett> Not "nymous"? 23:49:07 <oerjan> no, the greek word for name is "onyma" 23:49:10 * tswett nods. 23:49:25 <pikhq> I think the English word here would be "denominated" actually. 23:49:30 <tswett> That explains why the English word for "anonymous" isn't "annymous" or something. 23:50:07 <oerjan> annie mouse 2014-06-23: 00:03:12 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:07:24 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/28t6he/not_sure_i_have_high_hopes_for_this_class/ 00:07:30 <Sgeo> Someone should make a C+ esolang 00:10:03 <Bike> maaaaan i'd be so bored in that curriculum 00:12:04 <boily> ah, the joy of never having classes no more... 00:12:17 <boily> (yes. I do still have nightmares from time to time about school.) 00:13:03 <Bike> shoulda taken a cooler major, like kinesthesiology 00:17:20 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:17:40 -!- ^v has joined. 00:18:35 <tswett> Sgeo: like a cross between C and C++ or something? 00:19:22 <Sgeo> Yes. Omitting features that other C++ features rely on to make sense 00:22:20 <elliott> tswett: Eventually = MVar? 00:23:33 <tswett> elliott: you could probably implement Eventually with MVar. 00:23:51 <tswett> I'm pretty sure Haskell doesn't guarantee that only one thread will be executing at a time. 00:28:38 -!- Patashu has joined. 00:29:19 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:29:19 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:32:15 <Sgeo> http://blog.izs.me/post/59142742143/designing-apis-for-asynchrony 00:38:48 <tswett> Ooh. Language idea. 00:39:42 <tswett> A program consists of an array containing movable objects and stationary objects. Execution consists of repeatedly selecting an arbitrary movable object and direction, and moving it as far as it will go in that direction. 00:40:14 <tswett> Without overlapping any other objects. 00:41:37 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:42:18 -!- yonathan135 has joined. 00:44:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:44:53 <yonathan135> hola 00:45:07 <oerjan> `bienvenido yonathan135 00:45:07 <HackEgo> yonathan135: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 00:45:14 -!- yonathan135 has left. 00:53:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:55:10 -!- Bike has joined. 00:56:13 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 00:56:38 <boily> oerjan: that may be the cleanest hispanophone-handling I ever saw in this chännel. 00:58:02 <tswett> Why is the command "bienvenido", like "having been welcomed"? 00:58:42 <tswett> Probably should be "bienvenir", like "to welcome", aye? 00:58:58 <boily> `bienvenue moi-même 00:58:59 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenue: not found 00:59:10 <boily> hm. weird. where was the French version again? 00:59:37 <tswett> Oh shucks. 00:59:58 <tswett> I should promote Lepwick by creating an IRC bot that executes Unix commands in some account. 01:00:07 <boily> tswett: it's the same in French. you wish to somebody that they had a nice well come. (or something probably more grammatical than that.) 01:00:28 <boily> «je vous souhaite la bienvenue» → “I wish to you that you came well” 01:00:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:00:56 <tswett> boily: well, yeah, you say "bienvenido" to a person in order to welcome them. 01:01:22 <tswett> But if you wanted to order someone else to welcome someone, you wouldn't say "bienvenido" to the orderee. 01:01:38 <tswett> Nor would you say "bienvenir", for that matter. Unless the orderee is a computer. 01:02:03 <tswett> So what's the latest best IRC bot? 01:03:02 <Bike> FutaServ 01:03:16 <boily> FutaServ??? 01:03:39 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to barruca2. 01:03:47 -!- barruca2 has changed nick to barrucadu. 01:04:30 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to barruca2. 01:04:38 -!- barruca2 has changed nick to barrucadu. 01:06:40 <tswett> Whoops, I destroyed littlesyl's sudoers database. 01:07:43 <tswett> Fortunately, I can magically undestroy it. 01:11:38 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:14:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WELLCAMED CHICKEN). 01:14:12 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:16:15 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/welcome* 01:16:16 <HackEgo> wisdom/welcome \ wisdom/welcome.bork \ wisdom/welcome.es \ wisdom/welcome.fi 01:16:35 <oerjan> `` grep bienvenu wisdom/* 01:16:35 <HackEgo> grep: wisdom/d: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a directory 01:16:36 <myndzi> | 01:16:36 <myndzi> º¯`\o 01:16:49 <oerjan> seems like we don't have any 01:17:02 <oerjan> oh hm 01:17:05 <tswett> So, what's something you can't do in HackEgo? 01:17:12 <oerjan> `` grep -i bien wisdom/* 01:17:14 <HackEgo> wisdom/bienvenue:Bienvenue au centre international pour le design et le déploiement des langages de programmation ésotériques! Pour plus d’informations, visitez le wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (Pour l’autre type d'ésotérisme, essayez #esoteric sur irc.dal.net.) \ grep: wisdom/d: Is a directory \ grep: wisdom/¯\(°_o): Is a di 01:17:17 <tswett> Besides resolving DNS? 01:17:25 <oerjan> silly case 01:22:10 <Bike> deepnds on what you mean by "in" 01:22:13 <Bike> `yes 01:22:13 <HackEgo> y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y \ y 01:22:29 <Bike> can't make it spam itself to death 01:22:57 -!- lepwick has joined. 01:23:09 <tswett> Like, something you might hope to be able to do with a Unix shell that you can't do with HackEgo. 01:23:18 -!- lepwick has quit (Client Quit). 01:23:34 <oerjan> tswett: vim is probably pretty awkward to use hth 01:23:47 <tswett> oerjan: tht 01:24:12 <oerjan> yw 01:24:38 <Bike> `irssi 01:24:38 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: irssi: not found 01:24:41 <Bike> `emacs 01:24:42 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: emacs: not found 01:24:48 <Bike> dag 01:24:49 <tswett> `vi 01:25:19 <HackEgo> Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[2;1H[1m[34m~ [3;1H~ [4;1H~ 01:26:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:27:23 -!- Patashu has joined. 01:33:42 <nooodl> that's good 01:37:54 <oerjan> huh i got a blue screen of death on windows 8 01:39:24 <oerjan> grumble, now i need to find my place again in the shtetl-optimized comment tabs 01:40:39 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:40:48 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:41:28 <oerjan> what, his page numbers aren't chronological 01:45:26 -!- lepwick has joined. 01:45:31 <tswett> @unix whoami 01:45:31 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: unpl unpf undo 01:45:39 <tswett> Maybe I should figure out what lepwick's command prefix is. 01:45:53 <oerjan> oh lepwick is a bot? 01:46:09 <tswett> lepwick is, yeah. 01:46:10 <tswett> Lepwick isn't, but lepwick is. 01:46:14 <oerjan> i almost `relcomed it last time it was 01:46:24 <oerjan> here 01:46:48 <tswett> `relcome lepwick 01:46:48 <HackEgo> ​lepwick: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:46:48 <lepwick> [ 404 Not Found ] - esolangs.org 01:47:34 <tswett> .unix whoami 01:47:34 <lepwick> NameError: global name 'subprocess' is not defined (file "/home/ircbot/.willie/modules/unix.py", line 6, in unix) 01:47:42 -!- lepwick has quit (Client Quit). 01:48:06 <MDude> More like [ 404 Not Found ] - http://esolangs.org/%3E 01:48:26 -!- lepwick has joined. 01:49:02 -!- ^v has joined. 01:49:18 -!- lepwick has quit (Client Quit). 01:49:51 <tswett> Forgot to import subprocess. 01:50:02 <tswett> Um. 01:50:03 <tswett> Okay. 01:50:53 <tswett> I thought lepwick was no longer running. 01:50:57 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 01:50:57 <tswett> According to ps, lepwick is indeed no longer running. 01:51:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:52:26 <tswett> That took a really long time to quit. 01:52:34 <tswett> Wait, what... 01:52:52 <tswett> lepwick: how are you still here? The process isn't running any more! 01:54:43 <oerjan> lepwick isn't here hth 01:55:18 -!- tswett has changed nick to lepwick. 01:55:37 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:48 -!- coppro has joined. 01:55:53 <oerjan> either you are really lagged or you aren't responding to pings hth 01:55:59 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:57:13 <lepwick> `run echo tell 01:57:20 <HackEgo> tell 01:58:02 <lepwick> oerjan: I guess I am really lagged. 01:58:05 <lepwick> I'm so lagged that I haven't gotten your message saying that I'm really lagged. 01:58:19 <oerjan> shocking 01:58:29 <oerjan> and _still_ hasn't responded to my pings. 01:58:42 -!- lepwick has quit (Quit: lepwick). 01:58:44 <oerjan> oh there 01:58:56 -!- tswett has joined. 01:58:59 <oerjan> 212 seconds 01:59:42 <tswett> Well, gee, it's traveling HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD. 01:59:48 -!- tswett has changed nick to lepwick. 02:00:11 -!- lepwick has changed nick to tswett. 02:00:59 -!- lepwick has joined. 02:01:06 <tswett> .unix whoami 02:01:06 <lepwick> ircbotbox 02:01:10 <tswett> Woo. 02:01:47 <tswett> .unix echo -e 'blah\nblah\nblah' 02:01:47 <lepwick> blahblahblah 02:02:24 <tswett> So yeah. 02:02:38 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:03:16 <tswett> .unix false 02:03:16 <lepwick> CalledProcessError: Command '['sudo', '-u', 'ircbotbox', 'bash', '-c', u'false']' returned non-zero exit status 1 (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 573, in check_output) 02:06:05 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:06:12 -!- coppro has joined. 02:06:25 -!- wagner has joined. 02:08:02 <tswett> .unix sed 's/lepwick/lepwick2/' /home/ircbot/.willie/default.cfg stupidwilliecfg 02:08:02 <lepwick> CalledProcessError: Command '['sudo', '-u', 'ircbotbox', 'bash', '-c', u"sed 's/lepwick/lepwick2/' /home/ircbot/.willie/default.cfg stupidwilliecfg"]' returned non-zero exit status 2 (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 573, in check_output) 02:08:25 <elliott> `welcome wagner 02:08:35 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 02:08:38 <tswett> .unix sed 's/member:lepwick/lepwick2/' /home/ircbot/.willie/default.cfg stupidwilliecfg 2>&1; true 02:08:39 <lepwick> sed: can't read stupidwilliecfg: No such file or directory[core]nick = lepwickhost = irc.freenode.netuse_ssl = Falseport = 6667owner = tswettchannels = #esotericexclude = url[db]userdb_type = sqliteuserdb_file = /home/ircbot/userdb.sqlite 02:08:44 <elliott> oh, HackEgo isn't here 02:08:52 <tswett> HackEgo isn't here? 02:08:53 <elliott> wagner: hi! no bother intended if not, but are you hagb4rd? (just a persistent problem with a ban-evading user who uses your ISP) 02:09:03 <elliott> tswett: okay, HackEgo is here, but ignored me 02:09:39 <wagner> hi elliott 02:10:07 <wagner> hi@all 02:10:22 <wagner> hagbard celine? 02:11:16 <wagner> aka karl kochj? i think he's dead.. suicide. 02:12:25 <elliott> wagner: have you ever been banned here before, under another name? 02:12:43 <wagner> no 02:13:47 <wagner> do you know karl koch? a famous german hacker in the 80s 02:14:43 <elliott> huh. okay, I find that interesting, since the only person to use your ISP in here in many, many months is him, and he's also evaded his ban with webchat before on the IP range 77.11.*. you also type like him and act like him 02:14:51 <HackEgo> wagner: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:14:57 <elliott> I don't mean to fuss you if you are truly someone else, but I'm sure you can see how that looks pretty suspicious in isolation :) 02:16:12 <tswett> .unix PYTHONPATH=/home/ircbot/lib/python /home/ircbot/bin/willie -d -c /home/ircbotbox/stupidwillie.cfg 02:17:19 <tswett> Mm-hmm. 02:17:26 <tswett> Whelp. Have at it. 02:18:12 <tswett> .unix rm -rf ~ 02:18:12 <lepwick> CalledProcessError: Command '['sudo', '-u', 'ircbotbox', 'bash', '-c', u'rm -rf ~']' returned non-zero exit status 1 (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 573, in check_output) 02:18:33 <tswett> Oh right. Because 02:18:39 <tswett> .unix whoami; echo ~ 02:18:40 <lepwick> ircbotbox/home/ircbot 02:19:02 <tswett> .unix rm -rf /home/ircbotbox/* 02:22:06 <wagner> elliott: he used to say hi too? :) well..probably same ISP. and webchat is the only web-client i know working with freenode..isn't it? 02:23:38 <elliott> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :) (but in case you are him, I think it's a good sign you don't know what tells I'm going by!) 02:24:59 <wagner> yes, i'm not sure if i want to stay by myself. i give you the benefit of not knowing if i like it here ;) 02:26:33 <tswett> `run sleep 300; echo hi 02:26:36 <tswett> .unix sleep 300; echo hi 02:26:54 <elliott> wagner: sorry for the poor welcome :) 02:26:59 <elliott> he's rather persistent. 02:27:05 <wagner> np :) 02:27:05 <HackEgo> No output. 02:27:16 <tswett> See? This is why lepwick is superior. 02:28:23 <tswett> I don't think there's any time limit on computations. 02:31:22 <tswett> I'm on the edge of my seat. 02:31:36 <lepwick> hi 02:31:41 <tswett> \o/ 02:31:41 <myndzi> | 02:31:42 <myndzi> /| 02:32:16 <tswett> .unix sleep 200000; echo 'hi everyone :)' 02:32:21 <tswett> I'm not on the edge of my seat for this one. 02:32:53 <tswett> Note that anyone can interact with the process, kill it, whatever. Isn't that awesome. 02:40:05 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:42:11 -!- lollo64it has joined. 02:43:39 <tswett> `run uname -a 02:43:40 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 02:45:27 <oerjan> .unix echo are you multitasking 02:45:27 <lepwick> are you multitasking 02:50:22 <MDude> And now I try to get a bot to repsond to another one again, since there's a new one. 02:50:57 <MDude> .unix sleep 10; echo hi fungot 02:50:57 <fungot> MDude: it logs the date and time every time you cast the result of the 02:51:07 <lepwick> hi fungot 02:51:07 <fungot> lepwick: really? why not some other writer? sn fnord fnord /usr/ lib... so i could provide. 02:51:46 <MDude> Yes, hmm. 02:53:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:53:58 <oerjan> by tradition you're supposed to make a bot loop hth 02:55:21 <oerjan> .unix echo hm ^hm 02:55:21 <lepwick> hm ^hm 02:55:57 <oerjan> i see how to do it but i'm overqualified 02:56:53 <zzo38> To avoid bot loop you can make it detect overuse and reply using a NOTICE instead of PRIVMSG in such a case, which therefore exits the loop. 02:57:12 <oerjan> zzo38: we're not trying to avoid it hth 02:58:14 <oerjan> hint: fungot has a convenient ^echo command. 02:58:14 <fungot> oerjan: it could be, with directsound or normal wave out... something like ( apply f 03:02:05 <MDude> Well to avoid the loop being avoided, you could take advantage of delays. 03:03:13 <oerjan> fiendish 03:03:30 <MDude> Now I know I could say .unix sleep 10; echo ^echo whatever 03:04:18 <MDude> But for it to be unending I'll need to figure out how to duplicate and concatinate in a one liner. 03:04:22 <zzo38> Actually there are ways to still cause it be avoided, depending how much the delay is. For example you can probably avoid loop being avoided in such way by doubling the delay each time. 03:04:43 <oerjan> MDude: second hint: ^echo doesn't do what you think it does (unless you already know about it) 03:05:00 <MDude> Probably not, I'll ahve to test it. 03:05:06 <MDude> ^echo echo 03:05:07 <fungot> echo echo 03:05:12 -!- Bike has joined. 03:05:14 <MDude> ^echo sup 03:05:14 <fungot> sup sup 03:08:13 <MDude> ^echo .unix sleep 60; echo ^echo 03:08:14 <fungot> .unix sleep 60; echo ^echo .unix sleep 60; echo ^echo 03:08:36 <oerjan> oops i think that's broken 03:08:37 <MDude> Now to wait a minute and see how that goes. 03:09:14 <lepwick> ^echo .unix sleep 60^echo 03:09:14 <fungot> .unix sleep 60^echo .unix sleep 60^echo 03:09:17 <lepwick> CalledProcessError: Command '['sudo', '-u', 'ircbotbox', 'bash', '-c', u'sleep 60^echo .unix sleep 60^echo']' returned non-zero exit status 1 (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 573, in check_output) 03:10:23 <oerjan> hm that wasn't what i thought would be wrong. 03:10:36 <MDude> To the power of echo? 03:11:07 <oerjan> oh right 03:11:31 <oerjan> stupid ; is interpreted by lepwick instead of passed on to fungot 03:11:32 <fungot> oerjan: but i dont have the high level 03:12:24 <oerjan> while the extra space didn't matter because it's being parsed into words anyway 03:13:18 <oerjan> it would probably work without the sleep >:) 03:13:56 <MDude> I guess only one way to find out? 03:14:01 <Quintopia> like ^echo .unix echo ^echo or some such? 03:14:10 <MDude> ^echo .unix echo 03:14:10 <fungot> .unix echo .unix echo 03:14:11 <lepwick> .unix echo 03:14:27 <nooodl> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:27 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:27 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:27 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:28 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:28 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:29 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:29 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:29 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:29 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:30 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:30 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:31 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:31 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:32 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:32 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:32 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:33 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:33 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:33 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:34 <lepwick> ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:34 <fungot> .unix echo ^echo .unix echo ^echo 03:14:35 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +q *!*@ec2-54-83-10-153.compute-1.amazonaws.com. 03:14:37 <Bike> Thanks 03:14:45 <Bike> Sevastopol 03:14:58 <Quintopia> it's all your fault nooodl 03:15:04 <nooodl> that's: a good way to test 03:15:09 <Bike> texhnolysis 03:15:29 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -q *!*@ec2-54-83-10-153.compute-1.amazonaws.com. 03:15:39 <Quintopia> whose idea was it to make fungot's echo a potential y-combinator? 03:15:39 <fungot> Quintopia: isn't it fnord in haskell. um... that seemo person doesn't seem particularly censored to me either 03:16:02 <oerjan> Quintopia: well it's just stupid for an echo _not_ to repeat things, right? 03:16:26 <elliott> it's a mockingbird, not Y 03:16:31 <Quintopia> oerjan: if it's going to repeat them, it should repeat them on separate lines and in a much smaller font 03:16:38 <zzo38> You should really just make it detect a possible loop and reply using NOTICE if such a thing seems likely, when writing such IRC bot program. 03:16:45 <nooodl> fr: echo command that repeats the final word... word... word... 03:16:51 <zzo38> Furthermore, make it to never reply to any NOTICE. 03:16:57 <Quintopia> zzo38: good idea. oh wait, rice's theorem 03:17:20 <tswett> So wait, why'd lepwick stop responding. 03:17:24 <Bike> well, you could just cut messages beginning in punctuation. 03:17:29 <oerjan> Quintopia: fungot's commands cannot do newlines 03:17:29 <fungot> oerjan: yeah it is. it being pleasant mitigates the effect somewhat. and i don't 03:17:33 <Bike> tswett: +q 03:17:46 <Quintopia> oerjan: i like nooodl's idea 03:17:47 * tswett nods. 03:18:19 <tswett> You totally should have come up with a .unix command that would kill the offending echo. 03:18:23 <Bike> The Man censoring us 03:18:26 <Quintopia> elliott: in a concatenative language, what's the difference? 03:18:39 <elliott> the same as in a non-concatenative language? 03:18:41 <Bike> unfair randomizer 03:19:22 <tswett> For some reason my client doesn't show the +q. 03:19:29 <zzo38> Quintopia: I know about Rice's theorem, but you only have to guess, not to be perfect, and I have some ideas about how to make such a guess, in several ways. In such ways, it will be the case such that doubling the delay every time is not detected by this algorithm, but that will slow it down sufficiently anyways and is not such a problem (if it is, a bot can be quit and reconnect, +q, or whatever) 03:19:35 <MDude> If you wanted, you could also make each response longer than tha last. 03:19:47 <MDude> Until some presumable characte r length is reached. 03:19:58 <tswett> Is fungot in any other channels? 03:19:59 <fungot> tswett: for c there is a linux on the newer computers, solaris just runs on the whole thing 03:20:12 <oerjan> the most annoying thing about the botloops here is that they make people start blabbering about NOTICE. 03:20:25 <MDude> I should write down more ideas somewhere. 03:20:33 <Bike> oerjan: see, if we had the bots issue a NOTICE NOTICE, we'd be able to avoid that 03:20:53 <tswett> Like #botloop? 03:21:01 <MDude> They sould issue SUPs instead. 03:21:13 <MDude> Like a NOTICE, but they say SUP instead. 03:21:28 <zzo38> I think SUP is not a valid IRC command. 03:22:06 <oerjan> tswett: not that i know of 03:22:44 <MDude> I don't know all the IRC commands, and thought you just means lines starting with the word NOTICE in all caps. 03:23:30 <tswett> The NOTICE command is another way of sending messages to a channel. Some IRC clients misinterpret NOTICEs as being important. 03:23:32 <zzo38> No, I mean a message sent to the channel using NOTICE instead of PRIVMSG if the algorithm determines it likely that a botloop would be caused. 03:24:03 <zzo38> NOTICE is also used for replying to client queries. 03:24:26 <tswett> The intended use is that automatic responses are supposed to be NOTICEs, and an automatic response is never supposed to be generated to a NOTICE. 03:24:37 <MDude> According to Wikipedia, NOTICE works similarly to PRIVMSG, except automatic replies must never be sent in reply to NOTICE messages. 03:24:52 <tswett> Here's a great idea. 03:24:53 <zzo38> MDude: Yes, and this is exactly what I am suggesting, in fact. 03:24:56 <Bike> yeah, the idea is that bots could use notices. 03:24:59 <Bike> but nobody does that. 03:25:04 <tswett> We'll say that a bot should only respond to a message that's repeated twice. 03:25:16 <tswett> So that bot loops decay exponentially. 03:25:22 <elliott> I'm going to start kicking people if my IRC workspace keeps going red. 03:25:42 <tswett> Switch clients hth, bro? 03:25:49 <zzo38> I am suggesting that if you do not want to use notices all the time, you can make it decide by using such thing. 03:25:58 <Bike> is there a way to ban anybody who says hth 03:26:00 <elliott> I'm also going to start kicking people if they say things like "hth, bro?" at me. 03:26:16 <oerjan> even irssi makes notices more annoying than privmsg in channel :( 03:26:29 <zzo38> oerjan: Can't you configure that somehow? 03:26:35 <elliott> especially the bro part. 03:26:45 <MDude> Is there something like notices that gets less attention than notices? 03:26:49 <zzo38> At least the IRC client I use, does not do any annoying/stupid things like that. 03:26:50 <Bike> Notices 03:26:52 <shachaf> elliott: /set beep_msg_level to disable notices. 03:26:53 <MDude> Maybe announements. 03:27:09 <oerjan> zzo38: probably. but requiring _everyone_ to do that will get you hated. 03:27:48 -!- lepwick has quit (Quit: Quitting on command from tswett). 03:28:11 -!- lepwick has joined. 03:28:43 <MDude> I don't think going red every time an automated message is sent the way the protocol was designed to have it sent is the best design for a client. 03:28:47 <zzo38> Well, I can write just as well on a IRC channel, please don't make any bot respond to any command or event on the IRC using the PRIVMSG command; please use NOTICE instead, and don't ever reply to a NOTICE automatically. 03:29:21 <zzo38> In such a channel most bots are not allowed until they are being fixed, of course!! 03:29:38 <oerjan> unfortunately we haven't yet invented time machines to go back in time and put horse heads in the beds of bad irc client programmers. 03:29:52 <elliott> maybe you haven't. 03:29:54 <oerjan> when we do, all this will have been fixed hth 03:31:54 <Sgeo> Are bots allowed to respond to NOTICEs containing profanity? 03:32:06 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:32:07 <zzo38> I think I have been told also once that some features of my IRC client are more accurate than those of other clients, such as being able to respond to messages embedded inside of another message. <CTCP>ACTION (like this one)<CTCP> 03:32:14 <Sgeo> Or is that a loophole against anti-profanity bots in the interest of blocking botloops 03:32:20 <zzo38> Sgeo: Not with another message. 03:32:42 <tswett> They're allowed to respond to any NOTICEs at all. 03:32:43 <tswett> ...aye? 03:32:47 <zzo38> If they wish to have a bot to avoid profanity (although I do not think this is a good idea at all!), just make it KICK without posting any other kind of message. 03:33:20 <zzo38> And of course it can still *log* notices and perform statistics on them, just not reply directly to them using a PRIVMSG, NOTICE, or similar. 03:34:07 <zzo38> How does my "(like this one)" message appears in your IRC clients? What if it is a command other than ACTION, though? 03:34:29 <tswett> zzo38: that message to me looks like it ends in "message. ACTION (like this one)" 03:35:10 <Sgeo> I saw something similar to tswett but there was a weird character in front and a weird character behind it 03:35:13 <zzo38> tswett: Are there any colors or control-symbols displayed? There should be at least such thing 03:35:30 <zzo38> Sgeo: Yes, what "weird character" is OK 03:35:44 <Sgeo> ␁ in front ␁ behind 03:35:50 <Sgeo> I have no idea how that will display to others 03:36:32 <zzo38> <CTCP>ACTION Does this message display differently to you?<CTCP> Here is another sentence afterward, does it affect it too? 03:36:39 <Sgeo> See same weird character 03:36:52 <Sgeo> Also, http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-06-23 shows my copy/pasted version of the character, but not in your message 03:37:13 <Sgeo> glogbot sees that most recent message of yours as an ACTION 03:37:21 <tswett> zzo38: nope, no control symbols or colors or anything. 03:37:22 <Sgeo> With the second cut off 03:37:37 <tswett> zzo38: then your second message displayed all as one emote. 03:37:56 <zzo38> Do you mean the second sentence? I posted two sentences, one inside of the ACTION block and one outside. 03:38:12 <tswett> "zzo38 Does this message display differently to you? Here is another sentence afterward, does it affect it too" 03:38:35 <zzo38> O, OK 03:40:05 <zzo38> I think once someone tried sending a TIME request or something like that to the channel inside of the middle of another message, and mine is the only one that responded; I think the specification actually specifies that it is supposed to be allowed in the middle of other messages. 03:41:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Slide]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39893 * 107.5.152.253 * (+1149) Created page with "'''Slide''' is an esoteric programming language created by Tanner Swett in 2014. A Slide program consists of a two-dimensional array of spaces, periods, and lowercase English..." 03:42:37 <zzo38> I also think that other IRC clients do not do syntax highlighting, isn't it? 03:43:00 <Bike> syntax for what, natural langauge? 03:43:06 <zzo38> No, for IRC. 03:43:29 <tswett> Someone prove my language Turing complete thanks. 03:43:30 <Bike> syntax for what, natural language? 03:44:24 <zzo38> No, it syntax highlight the IRC. For example it display ":Bike!~Glossina@71-222-123-162.ptld.qwest.net" in cyan, "PRIVMSG" in white, "#esoteric" in gray, the colon afterward in gray, and "syntax for what, natural langauge?" in blue. 03:44:38 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:44:46 <Sgeo> Most IRC clients hide that stuff 03:44:54 <tswett> Isn't there that RawIRC client that does in fact syntax highlight the IRC? 03:44:58 <Bike> you have a client that shows you the raw message, huh 03:45:35 <zzo38> Bike: Yes, I have. 03:45:35 <zzo38> I think it is not useful to hide that kinds of stuff 03:45:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ds84182 * New user account 03:46:17 <zzo38> tswett: Maybe, but this is a different one, not RawIRC. 03:46:23 <tswett> I don't need to see "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" on every PRIVMSG sent to #esoteric to know that it's a PRIVMSG sent to #esoteric. 03:47:30 <zzo38> It still is not perfect; for example, there are no options to open additional windows and to redirect messages to other windows. There are a few other things missing too, but most of it is complete. 03:49:08 <zzo38> Commands that are typed in also use the same syntax highlighting, including client commands with a slash in front. Also I have shortcut, if no command is typed and the first key is a space-bar, it automatically fill in "PRIVMSG" and a channel and colon. 03:49:27 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:49:38 <zzo38> In my experience, this way better. 03:51:14 <nooodl> tswett: i don't know, but one thing i can prove is: you don't need the spaces 03:52:36 <tswett> I assume that by spaces you mean barriers rather than empty spaces? 03:52:49 <nooodl> proof being: "zooming" all of your objects by a factor 3 obviously results in an equivalent one, and ' ' can then map to 'aaa\naba\naaa' 03:52:50 <nooodl> yeah 03:53:12 <tswett> Yup. 03:53:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:54:25 <tswett> So, it's easy enough to create something that can move back and forth. 03:54:58 <tswett> Can you make a spaceship? A pattern that moves forever, but only in one direction? 03:57:19 <tswett> Can you make logic gates in any way? 03:59:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39894 * Ds84182 * (+602) Created page with "Xihcute is a esolanguage created by ds84182. It is self modifying, stack based, and most likely turning complete. ==Operators== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Name !! Description |..." 04:00:06 <tswett> .unix :(){ :|:& };: 04:01:03 -!- lepwick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:01:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:01:38 <Bike> It actually worked? 04:01:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 04:01:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:01:53 <tswett> I think it actually worked. 04:03:34 <tswett> It worked so well that I can't SSH into the host. 04:04:40 <nooodl> hm. how do you prove a language *isn't* turing complete when you can't cheat by pointing out some "finity" limitation it runs into 04:04:55 <tswett> Solve its halting problem. 04:05:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39895&oldid=39894 * Ds84182 * (+578) Added more of Xihcutes instructions from it's working interpreter 04:05:38 <Sgeo_> How many languages have solved halting problems that the solution is NOT 'always halts' or 'never halts'? 04:06:18 <tswett> Yup, that forkbomb was super effective. 04:06:21 <shachaf> as many as you'd like 04:06:49 <tswett> I wonder what's the shortest /// program that outputs infinitely much stuff. 04:07:21 <tswett> I don't think one shorter than about a hundred characters has been found. 04:07:38 <nooodl> Sgeo_: take some language L with halting problem solution 'never halts'. define a language L' that halts for only one program p which is not in L, and otherwise behaves exactly like L 04:08:41 <Sgeo_> How many such languages that were not designed to have "trivial" (whatever that means) answers? 04:09:09 <tswett> Aren't most languages pretty clearly designed to have some programs that halt and some that don't? 04:09:11 <nooodl> i think that sadly depends on: whatever that means 04:09:34 <tswett> I wonder if it's possible to abuse the specification of Proce and make it do digital computation. 04:10:16 <Sgeo_> SQL isn't TC, is it? Is it trivially halting? 04:11:43 <oerjan> Sgeo_: the 0x29A functional fragment was one i solved the halting problem for, without being either. 04:12:23 <oerjan> the wiki seems slow 04:13:55 <Sgeo_> I went to refresh, page rendered, pressed stop 04:14:36 <oerjan> ah right Subtle Cough was the other one. 04:14:47 <oerjan> slightly more trivial. 04:15:05 <oerjan> (only three cases to check) 04:15:13 <oerjan> er 04:15:20 <oerjan> only 3*3 04:15:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39896&oldid=39895 * Ds84182 * (+371) 04:27:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:27:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 04:33:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39897&oldid=39896 * Ds84182 * (+149) 04:36:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:39:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39898&oldid=39897 * Ds84182 * (+138) 04:42:48 <tswett> Yeah, you can obviously make digital logic gates in Proce. 04:42:51 <tswett> Must nerf. 04:43:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39899&oldid=39898 * Ds84182 * (+366) Added a length independent quine 04:49:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39900&oldid=39899 * Ds84182 * (+9) Change "Quine" to "Cheating Quine", because my method is cheating... 04:50:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Proce]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39901&oldid=32990 * 107.5.152.253 * (+248) Nerf by limiting slew rate 04:51:34 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:51:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39902&oldid=39900 * Ds84182 * (+70) 04:52:19 <zzo38> Sgeo_: SQL is now TC, due to a WITH command. 04:57:09 <tswett> Whelp, Funciton is my favorite esolang at the moment. 04:57:44 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 05:47:06 -!- FreeFull has quit. 05:55:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:59:23 <Sgeo_> I want to add 'legal, winning, and not fun' to oerjan's wisdom 06:06:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gentzen]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39903&oldid=39892 * Zzo38 * (+270) 06:06:40 -!- password2 has joined. 06:07:59 <zzo38> Why? 06:08:31 <Bike> `? oerjan 06:08:32 <HackEgo> Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 06:10:35 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:19:27 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:21:45 <zzo38> That is what is wrong with playing cash games. Just play a tournament style (even if there are only two players), each player starts same number of chips, and nobody wins until the other player loses all of their chips. You can bet money on winning if you want to, and it does not have to correspond to how many chips they are. Amount of money in your pocket is therefore irrelevant, except that you need to have enough to afford to pay the entry fee 06:26:32 <password2> but people will bet less then 06:28:29 -!- Speed` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:29:05 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:29:37 -!- Speed` has joined. 06:29:42 -!- erdic has joined. 06:30:33 <password2> mmm , i should build an eso lang that runs backwards , it starts by exiting with code 0 and ends at the start 06:32:16 <zzo38> People will bet less then? I do not quite understand what you mean, although my message may have been cut off. 06:32:26 <password2> yes 06:32:39 -!- aloril has joined. 06:32:47 <password2> your message end with "the entry fee" 06:33:10 <password2> they will bet less because betting now no longer changes the outcome of the game 06:33:40 <zzo38> There is something afterward: (which you have to decide before you start, and then the prize is twice the entry fee). 06:34:13 <password2> and what about buy ins? 06:34:26 <zzo38> The entry fee is the only buy in. 06:34:41 <password2> yeah good luck on that :P 06:35:43 <password2> and if you are good you would have the money to start with 06:35:58 <zzo38> You are still more likely to win if you play well by betting correct amounts of poker chips. 06:36:08 <password2> nope 06:36:19 <password2> i doubt , not in high end games 06:36:46 <zzo38> But that is how all poker tournaments are played; just they usually have more than two players in the tournament. 06:37:04 <password2> with buy in rounds 06:37:18 <zzo38> Not all have buy-in rounds. 06:37:24 <password2> many do 06:37:39 <password2> for the first few rounds atleast 06:37:51 <zzo38> Yes I know that. 06:37:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Sacchan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39904&oldid=39715 * Sacchan * (+16) 06:38:15 <zzo38> However, you can play without it. 06:38:57 <zzo38> You don't get to undo a move in a chess tournament because you bribed the tournament directors, of course. 06:39:26 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:39:54 <password2> heh 06:41:03 <password2> meh , i really want to code that thing now 06:41:06 <zzo38> Poker games simply involve a lot more money than chess, and there are people who play at both games (some even combine them in various ways). 06:41:42 <password2> i once saw an epic poker tournement on espn 06:41:58 <password2> as in the most epic 06:42:47 <password2> the tournement had something like 40 professional players that bought into the tournament and like 10 that won their place by playing online 06:43:18 <password2> I was watching the last round and this guy who won his seat made 4 people drop out in under 5 min 06:43:43 <password2> leaving him heads up against two and a pot of like $1000 000 06:44:05 <password2> 30min later he wons 06:47:46 <password2> and the final pot was like 2mil 06:48:35 <zzo38> OK 06:49:28 <password2> anyway , I'm out 06:49:43 <zzo38> For similar reasons as I have described above (although also other reasons), when I play at Magic: the Gathering I always prefer the Limited formats. 06:50:08 <password2> i have never played magic 06:50:29 <password2> its kinda dead here 06:50:37 <zzo38> OK 06:50:39 <password2> have only seen one game being played 06:51:13 <zzo38> When? Where? 06:51:43 <zzo38> I actually like the Magic: the Puzzling, much better than playing the game itself. Same with chess, really. 06:51:54 <zzo38> I also invented a few Pokemon card puzzles, because I like that game too. 06:54:09 <zzo38> For example, this one: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon_card/puzzle.1 06:55:03 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:01:07 <b_jonas> zzo38: I see 07:01:27 <mroman> TBBT is getting boring. 07:02:27 <zzo38> Who is TBBT? Do you prefer BTTB, perhaps? 07:03:24 <fizzie> BTTB: Big Theory, The Bang. 07:05:27 <b_jonas> zzo38: as for M:tG, they changed http://gatherer.wizards.com/ so now I can no longer download (almost) all cards with a single large page load, 07:05:39 <b_jonas> but at least they seem to have fixed how flip cards show up 07:07:00 <b_jonas> I might eventually have to write a script to download the cards the slow way unless they fix this. 07:07:43 <zzo38> OK. Do you want the pictures or the text or both or what? 07:07:52 <b_jonas> text only 07:08:34 <zzo38> OK 07:10:04 <shachaf> b_jonas: How did you do it before? 07:10:06 <b_jonas> at least http://www.yawgatog.com/ seems to have been able to get everything 07:10:25 <b_jonas> shachaf: you could get the text of all cards valid in Legacy with a single page load, then parse that html, 07:10:58 <b_jonas> except that the newest set was often months late to get marked as valid in Legacy in Gatherer (when it actually was) so I couldn't get the newest set rightaway 07:13:41 <shachaf> Legacy Legado 07:13:51 <shachaf> Legatog 07:14:26 <shachaf> why do people play these formats with old expensive cards 07:14:31 <shachaf> why do people play this game in the first place 07:16:14 <zzo38> I recently saw someone who used mostly grayscale proxy cards, against an opponent who did the same, playing on a boat that I happened to be on. 07:16:34 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's not that I want to play legacy, it's just the easiest way in their interface to download all cards 07:16:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: grayscale proxy cards? sounds ugly 07:16:54 <shachaf> are you using advanced search? 07:16:59 <b_jonas> I like the cards for art 07:17:22 <b_jonas> shachaf: dunno, I just loaded this url => http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/index.aspx?term=&Field_Name=on&Field_Rules=on&Field_Type=on&setfilter=Legacy&output=Text%20Spoiler 07:17:29 <b_jonas> in the old interface that is 07:17:31 <b_jonas> it no longer works 07:17:34 <shachaf> you can just search for name not "ahflsjflhsf" 07:17:44 <zzo38> b_jonas: If the cards are readable then it works. 07:17:53 <b_jonas> shachaf: in the old or the new gatherer? 07:18:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, but the cards have beautiful art, and it's so much harder to recognize them without color 07:18:11 <shachaf> in either. but i'm not sure about this text spoiler thing 07:18:25 <shachaf> the best cards are banned in legacy, of course 07:19:05 <b_jonas> shachaf: the problem with the new gatherer is that I can't seem to be able to get all cards in a single page, it's forcefully paged to like ten cards per page or something, 07:19:13 <b_jonas> so I'd need a thousand page loads 07:19:18 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, but perhaps they only care the text when playing the game; I also only care the text when playing the game. Yes some cards have nice pictures (I especially like the really old ones) although it is irrelevant. 07:19:57 <b_jonas> also, have you found out where they'd hidden the list of all set FAQs? I can see links to the set FAQs only from the pages describing each set, not together 07:20:00 <b_jonas> and I need the set FAQs 07:20:10 <shachaf> you can get http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&output=checklist&name=+![sdfaskjdfsdal] 07:20:17 <shachaf> but that doesn't have card text 07:20:19 <b_jonas> plus, they're again not releasing the comprehensive rules as plain text 07:20:29 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, I need the text, not just the names 07:21:22 <zzo38> b_jonas: Then, convert it by yourself into plain text. 07:21:29 <b_jonas> zzo38: I've seen some people train for standard with a deck where almost all cards were unmarked proxies for some other card, so it was impossible to understand from outside because I had no idea which card represented what 07:21:35 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:21:37 <b_jonas> zzo38: yep, I have converted already 07:21:40 <b_jonas> this is less of a problem 07:21:46 <b_jonas> I'm more bothered by gatherer 07:22:08 <b_jonas> but I'll try to watch the plus side: at least flip cards work now 07:22:39 -!- slereah has joined. 07:23:31 <zzo38> Perhaps you can make a local cache of SQL of file already copied, so that only new cards and information, you are needing to download, and then searched by SQL. 07:24:19 <shachaf> oh, flip /= transform 07:24:36 <zzo38> (You can also use XML instead if you prefer) 07:24:48 <b_jonas> zzo38: that's basically the same. I have to download all cards four times a year. I need to have all, not just a cache, because I want complex local searches in the full text. 07:25:16 <shachaf> kind of surprising they don't make that easily available 07:25:53 <zzo38> b_jonas: What are you using, SQL or XML or HTML or what? 07:26:24 <shachaf> b_jonas: maybe try http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Settings.aspx 07:26:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: nah, it's just a plain text thing. it's not that big, was only 25 megs at about M1023 07:26:39 <b_jonas> shachaf: ok, will check that later 07:27:07 <b_jonas> also, I'm not too worried because both http://www.yawgatog.com/ and http://magiccards.info/ seems to have the new cards available 07:27:11 <shachaf> apparently you can't actually set results per page? 07:27:14 <shachaf> oh well 07:27:17 <b_jonas> but I'd like to have an independent download 07:27:50 <b_jonas> shachaf: no big deal, I'd done big web scraping stuff before, I'm just annoyed they broke what used to work 07:29:41 <zzo38> I would like to have the SQL so that, you can write something like SELECT "SET", COUNT(*) FROM "CARDS" GROUP BY "SET"; or whatever 07:31:35 -!- HackEgo has joined. 07:39:01 <b_jonas> sure, once you have downloaded the stuff, you can try to fill them to a database or anything you want 08:02:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Randwork]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39905 * 178.125.27.107 * (+573) Created page with "It's a pity, but '''Randwork+''' isn't so interesting... As for me. I've made a small interpreter of this language and have noticed some unpleasant things:<br /> * Too many "H..." 08:05:51 -!- atehwa_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:10:58 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:12:50 -!- HackEgo has joined. 08:18:31 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:19:13 -!- tromp has joined. 08:20:13 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:38 -!- tromp has joined. 08:21:34 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:22:00 -!- tromp has joined. 08:23:26 -!- tromp__ has joined. 08:23:27 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:01 -!- atehwa has joined. 08:30:46 -!- aloril has joined. 08:32:09 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:32:40 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:34:55 -!- HackEgo has joined. 08:39:25 -!- atehwa has joined. 08:40:41 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:44:15 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:45:06 -!- HackEgo has joined. 08:52:03 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:06:52 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:19:15 -!- atehwa has joined. 09:30:51 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:41:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:43:47 <slereah> Beep boop computers 09:43:48 -!- HackEgo has joined. 09:44:34 <Taneb> I should breakfast 09:46:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit). 09:46:29 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 09:46:46 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 09:47:18 <slereah> Break your fast? 09:47:22 <slereah> But it is lent :o 09:47:23 <Taneb> Yes 09:47:30 <Taneb> It... isn't lent 09:47:31 <Taneb> At all 09:47:45 <slereah> IT IS ALWAYS LENT 09:47:54 <slereah> I gave up my linear construct of time for lent 09:48:06 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:50:05 -!- b_jonas has joined. 09:50:51 <fizzie> It is always lent when you increment a lens by one. 09:51:29 <Taneb> _1 + 1 = _2 09:51:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:56:24 -!- ais523_ has joined. 09:57:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:11:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:12:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:24:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:24:08 -!- vifino has joined. 10:26:39 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:46:20 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:47:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 10:48:01 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:49:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:04:23 -!- HackEgo has joined. 11:16:02 <Melvar> zzo38: “* | zzo38 Does this message display differently to you?” “-- | unbekannte CTCP Anfrage von zzo38: Here is another sentence afterward, does it affect it too?” 11:18:35 <fizzie> Oh, I missed a botloop and all. 11:19:11 <fizzie> This is what one gets with manually managed ignore lists. 11:37:54 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 11:41:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:49:26 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:50:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:58:29 -!- yorick has joined. 12:18:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:20:49 -!- FreeFull has joined. 12:21:02 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to barruca2. 12:21:07 -!- barruca2 has changed nick to barrucadu. 12:23:10 -!- boily has joined. 12:28:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:28:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:38:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:41:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:03:03 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:05:01 <boily> dishes washed: check. bedsheets laundering: check. bowl of cheerios: check. bodum infusing: check. I am ready to begin the day! 13:14:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ESOSC]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39906 * GreyKnight * (+290) Created page with "== Standard [[Clunk]] == The specification for Clunk states that «The "clunk" sound must be approved by the appropriate standards body.». Probably ESOSC should give a stand..." 13:15:37 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:15:58 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 13:16:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:18:36 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:20:50 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:20:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Gs2]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39907&oldid=39819 * Nooodl * (+918) comparison operators 13:31:56 -!- tswett has joined. 13:32:04 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 13:32:05 -!- tswett has joined. 13:39:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:46:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39908&oldid=39902 * Ds84182 * (+371) 13:55:08 <Taneb> "Torpenhow Hill is an alleged hill" 13:55:14 <Taneb> How does one be an alleged hill? 13:55:47 <Taneb> "the hill may not exist." 13:57:14 <boily> http://www.the-berg.de/ 13:59:16 <Taneb> boily, there's a difference between an elaborate prank and a geographical eggcorn 13:59:38 <boily> beuh :P 14:12:42 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:16:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39909&oldid=39908 * Ds84182 * (+1235) Added the rest of the instructions, and add a new and more complex Hello, World 14:19:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39910&oldid=39909 * Ds84182 * (+159) 14:30:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39911&oldid=39910 * Ds84182 * (+40) 14:33:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39912&oldid=39911 * Ds84182 * (+109) Add if statement command 14:36:13 <FireFly> boily: good example of mystery-meat navigation 14:38:07 <boily> eh? 14:38:24 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:38:29 -!- ^0 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:40:13 <ais523_> boily: it's the name for a navigation system which has a bunch of unlabelled buttons, each of which takes you to a different page 14:40:58 <boily> aaaaah :D 14:41:20 <MDude> What is that? 14:43:50 <MDude> I don't see an actual description anywhere else, but at the same time am averse to reading anything labled "manifesto". 14:44:12 <Taneb> MDude, it's a mountain they built in Berlin to attract tourists 14:44:27 <MDude> Oh, I could ask WIkipedia. 14:44:46 <MDude> But it says the page implies it doens't exist yet? 14:44:53 <boily> the best manifesto of them all → http://www.kimmok.com/THE-MANIFESTO-MANIFESTO 14:44:59 <boily> MDude: of course it exists! 14:45:18 <MDude> I'm sure the web site does. 14:47:18 <MDude> Yes, good. 14:47:46 <MDude> I completely understand the overarching concept of that. 15:03:18 -!- mihow has joined. 15:07:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HONING CHICKEN). 15:08:09 <zzo38> How does "unbekannte CTCP Anfrage von zzo38" in English? 15:12:06 <ais523_> "unbekannte" is "unknown", and "CTCP" and "zzo38" are obvious 15:12:14 <ais523_> Anfrage is either "request" or "response", not sure which though 15:12:30 <ais523_> and "von" is a preposition, but I'm not quite sure which one in this context, because prepositions don't translate well between languages 15:13:11 <myname> "unknown CTCP request of zz038" 15:13:12 <Taneb> Unknown CTCP request from zzo38? 15:13:15 <myname> s/0/o/ 15:13:18 <myname> why? 15:18:17 <zzo38> Then it is incorrectly interpreting the part outside of the CTCP request as a CTCP request instead 15:18:52 <myname> ? 15:19:14 <myname> why do you do something with german irc clients if you don't speak german? 15:20:56 <mroman> it's from 15:21:00 <mroman> yes. 15:23:46 <fizzie> Taneb: Perhaps there's a set of specified criteria for a hill (e.g. to distinguish between lesser/greater geographical features, such as mounds and mountains), and the "alleged hill" is alleged because its hillness has not been clearly shown. 15:24:09 <Taneb> fizzie, reading the article, it's an alleged hill because nobody quite knows which hill it is 15:24:15 <Taneb> There are a lot of hills around there 15:35:38 <Taneb> Woo, I've passed my first year at uni! 15:35:50 <fizzie> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270709547/chrono-legends-1999-a-20th-anniversary-project "uh" 15:36:09 <b_jonas> Taneb: congrats 15:36:20 <Bike> copyright violating kickstarters are the best kickstarters 15:36:29 <Taneb> I passed decently, too! 15:36:32 <b_jonas> Bike: eh? 15:36:35 <Taneb> 78% over the year 15:36:57 <Bike> anyway re alleged hills you should clearly cite "On Hills and Dales" by maxwell 15:37:06 <Bike> i don't actually know w hat a dale is, but he was pretty smart, so he probably could figure it out 15:37:19 <Taneb> A dale is like a valley 15:37:24 <fizzie> \hat{w} 15:50:28 -!- mhi^ has joined. 15:52:16 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 15:52:25 <TieSoul_> Hey 15:59:02 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number). 15:59:39 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:59:52 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:03:41 -!- ^v has joined. 16:12:09 -!- boily has joined. 16:21:10 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 16:23:09 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 16:23:39 -!- ^v has joined. 16:38:36 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:39:14 -!- aretecode has joined. 16:45:14 -!- password2 has joined. 17:07:53 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:09:40 -!- TieSoul has joined. 17:19:41 <zzo38> Here describes some people seem to be using both LaTeX and Plain TeX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TeXnocrat 17:25:03 -!- lollo64it has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:25:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *mattress*). 17:29:13 <FireFly> `relcome TieSoul 17:29:14 <HackEgo> ​TieSoul: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:29:23 <ais523_> we have rainbow welcomes again? 17:29:40 <ais523_> first time in /ages/ I've seen one of those, as they don't show up on my other client 17:29:50 <ais523_> also, something that's bothering me al ot 17:29:53 <ais523_> *a lot 17:29:56 <TieSoul> That's an amazing welcome message 17:30:03 <ais523_> that seems to have red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, violet, and magenta 17:30:29 <ais523_> I guess I'd be less concerned if it was either exactly a traditional rainbow, or further from one 17:30:45 <TieSoul> Riot! There's no blue! 17:31:05 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure it'd tricky to do closer with IRC colors. 17:31:14 <ais523_> oh, right, there isn't 17:31:20 <ais523_> why didn't I notice that 17:31:27 <ais523_> wait, I did notice that 17:31:34 <ais523_> blue is not listed in my list of colours 17:31:46 <pikhq> mIRC color codes. 17:31:59 <nooodl> looks like "red, brown, yellow, lightgreen, blue, magenta, lightmagenta" to me 17:32:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39913&oldid=39912 * Ds84182 * (-85) Took out the shitty () command 17:32:31 <ais523_> nooodl: are you in a terminal, by any chance? 17:32:39 <nooodl> nope, x-chat 17:32:55 <ais523_> that's quite the customized ctcp version message 17:32:57 <nooodl> but my colours are terminal-y 17:32:59 <ais523_> also, I actually /like/ Vista :-( 17:33:00 <TieSoul> Has anyone ever made an http://esolangs.org/wiki/Eitherf*ck interpreter? It sounds really cool 17:33:15 <TieSoul> but gimmicky 17:33:24 <TieSoul> but all esolangs are gimmicky 17:33:29 <ais523_> probably not 17:33:40 <ais523_> the main issue with that language is that it has no control flow at all 17:33:43 <Bicyclidine> i forget, which newish version of windows is it everybody hates 17:33:52 <ais523_> which is a common mistake in making BF derivatives 17:33:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39914&oldid=39913 * Ds84182 * (+0) Forgive me division, I did not mean to replace you 17:34:01 <ais523_> (arguably, making BF derivatives at all is a mistake, but...) 17:34:02 <ais523_> Bicyclidine: 8 17:34:12 <ais523_> although it's specifically the UI on 8 that sucks 17:34:14 <TieSoul> Bicyclidine: Vista 17:34:19 <ais523_> the actual technology behind it is pretty solid 17:34:21 <TieSoul> I actually like 8 17:34:37 <Bicyclidine> confusing 17:34:50 <ais523_> I found that 8 became tolerable when I removed edge gestures from the touchpad 17:34:58 <ais523_> those things activated unwantdly far too often 17:35:15 <TieSoul> I found that 8 is tolerable because I use a mouse. 17:35:16 <ais523_> TieSoul: here's one for you: without using the keyboard, how do you close a Metro application (actually close it, not just switch away)? 17:35:36 <ais523_> I know the answer, but I had to look it up, and couldn't quite believe it once I did 17:35:47 <TieSoul> a Metro application? 17:35:51 <pikhq> On a fully up-to-date Windows 8 machine, put mouse at the top of the screen to get the Metro titlebar to un-autohide. :) 17:35:52 <ais523_> err, Modern UI 17:36:04 <ais523_> it used to be called Metro but Microsoft renamed it because the Metro name got such bad press 17:36:22 <ais523_> pikhq: I never got that to work 17:36:38 <ais523_> that used to just let me snap the application to half the screen 17:36:45 <pikhq> (disclaimer, I don't have a Windows 8 install handy) 17:37:13 <password2> (disclaimer i will never have windows install handy) 17:37:14 <TieSoul> none of my apps will open 'because File Explorer is open with administrator priviledges' 17:37:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:37:21 <Quintopia> sgwine on? 17:37:23 <zzo38> Can you tell Windows 8 to not un-autohide the Metro titlebar, or to tell it to never autohide? 17:37:26 <password2> and perfect line up there 17:37:46 <ais523_> zzo38: it would surprise me if you could, given how Metro programs are typically designed to be fullscreen/halfscreen only 17:38:00 <pikhq> zzo38: No, but IIRC one of the upcoming features of Windows 9 is to let you do Metro programs windowed. 17:38:06 <Taneb> ais523_, I thought they renamed Metro because it was trademarked by another company? 17:38:21 <ais523_> possibly 17:38:21 <password2> can we agree that windows 8 is just a browser? 17:38:43 <pikhq> It isn't really, it's just Win32 with random crap glued on. :) 17:38:51 <ais523_> in Windows 8, I went and uninstalled most of the Metro programs, and unpinned everything else 17:38:57 <ais523_> and then I had a usable start screen 17:39:13 <ais523_> I still prefer Unity, though, I think 17:39:30 <ais523_> I have a few specific issues with Unity's UI, and it's pretty buggy 17:39:35 <ais523_> but apart from that I really like it 17:39:40 <elliott> password2: y'know, I know windows-bashing is fashionable, and if it makes you happy then fine, but it helps if you at least try and say things that are meaningful 17:40:00 <password2> elliott, but that a catch 22 for me 17:40:24 <TieSoul> okay ais 17:40:29 <TieSoul> the Metro programs 17:40:29 <elliott> like saying windows 8 is just a browser sounds snappy, but you could, like, devote three seconds to thinking about what you're going to say beforehand, and decide if it makes any sense whatsoever or is just a string of words that sound like they bash windows 17:40:34 <elliott> and then only say it if it's the former 17:40:37 <password2> i don't want to try it so badly that i don't even want other people using it 17:40:48 <ais523_> elliott: I interpreted "bash windows" as "terminal emulator windows running bash" 17:40:55 <ais523_> and got a little confused 17:41:01 <elliott> password2: okay, if you admit you are completely ignorant of it, then don't try and offer analysis and opinions presented as consensus? 17:41:06 <TieSoul> you can close them by going to the top left corner of the screen, making the whole UI there show up, then right clicking the app and clicking close. 17:41:12 <elliott> and especially don't say stuff you know has no basis in reality to convince other people not to use something 17:41:17 <elliott> that's just trolling 17:41:24 <password2> i still think its a glorified browser 17:41:28 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 17:41:37 -!- elliott has kicked password2 trolling after warning. 17:41:37 <ais523_> TieSoul: yep, that's actually the second method I learned 17:41:53 -!- password2 has joined. 17:41:56 <ais523_> switch to another program, then mouse to top left corner, down the left edge, then right click and close 17:42:02 <password2> ok I'll stop 17:42:05 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 17:42:06 <elliott> thank you 17:42:25 <elliott> (n.b. I hate windows, this isn't me being defensive) 17:42:26 <password2> though i think a kick was over doing it 17:42:31 <ais523_> the method in the instruction manual that came with the computer was to repeat the first three steps, then drag the program to the right, then down to the bottom of the screen 17:42:48 <ais523_> I hate Windows from the software development point of view 17:43:05 <ais523_> from the point of view of a casual user, it's mostly just slightly worse than Ubuntu nowadays 17:43:08 <TieSoul> I like Windows because it's got the most support for applications and stuff. 17:43:09 <pikhq> Pity Windows doesn't have a C environment. 17:43:10 <zzo38> Still in Windows 8 all of the older Windows stuff still works: cmd.exe still exists (somehow I thought they would remove it in favor of PowerShell), WIN+R still works for the Run dialog box, ALT+F4 and ALT+TAB and that stuff still works, etc 17:43:16 <ais523_> and it has some nice features, like resizing a mounted partition 17:43:37 <pikhq> zzo38: cmd.exe is a bit more work to remove than you'd think. 17:43:39 <ais523_> PowerShell takes like 30 seconds to load, somehow 17:43:47 <ais523_> that's one good reason for cmd.exe to still work 17:43:53 <ais523_> also, they didn't want to break old shell scripts 17:44:03 <TieSoul> Also does Linux have anything that isn't a command line? 17:44:03 <pikhq> cmd.exe is also kinda architecturally required. 17:44:10 <ais523_> I've also never been able to learn PowerShell because it tries to connect to the Internet to work 17:44:17 <TieSoul> ^ not serious 17:44:18 <elliott> password2: well, when you admit that you're just saying untrue things in an attempt to get a reaction out of people to discourage them to use windows and an op warns you for it, and then you deliberately do it again without adding anything to it, that's pretty obvious provocation. since you rejoined less than 20 seconds afterwards I don't think a kick is much more of a penalty than the second warning it was intended as :p 17:44:26 <pikhq> Essentially Windows command line stuff has a "talk to cmd.exe" API. 17:44:32 <ais523_> err, connect to the Internet to download documentation 17:44:36 <elliott> I admit though, it is probably completely futile to try and make this channel more bearable to be in. 17:44:39 <pikhq> PowerShell for Windows command line stuff screen-scrapes cmd.exe. 17:44:44 <password2> elliott, ok I'll add some to it 17:44:44 <pikhq> (more-or-less) 17:44:47 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:44:51 <zzo38> I like that it still has cmd.exe though, and those other stuff, so when working on a computer with Windows 8, I can still work on it 17:45:05 <ais523_> pikhq: screenscraping cmd.exe would actually be very difficult 17:45:21 <ais523_> even copy-and-paste is awkward due to the way Windows does permissions 17:45:22 <password2> the layouts that i have seen from afar reminds me the fixed position type things one would expect to see in a browser 17:45:28 <elliott> ais523_: OCR screenshot! 17:45:39 <pikhq> ais523_: It's really awkward. 17:45:46 <TieSoul> also cmd.exe can't go fullscreen for some reason 17:45:47 <ais523_> elliott: I mean, I'm not certain that a screenshot wouldn't just come up completely black, if done without privilege 17:45:53 <pikhq> TieSoul: It's not a Win32 app. 17:46:08 <ais523_> TieSoul: actually, that's because the Windows terminal system is implemented in a really awkward manner 17:46:36 <TieSoul> oh 17:46:37 <TieSoul> okay 17:46:49 <Taneb> I can't remember the last time I used Windows 17:46:55 <Taneb> I think it was last friday, actually 17:47:27 <TieSoul> well, I'm perfectly fine with Windows; Mac OS X is just not for me and Linux is complicated and I'm too lazy to learn about it. 17:47:53 <maurer> TieSoul: I'm not really sure what you mean by Linux being complicated. Windows is super painful to use by comparison 17:48:00 <zzo38> I happen to think UNIX based systems work well; Mac OS X and Linux both use UNIX based stuff. 17:48:10 <zzo38> It isn't really so complicated to understand, I think 17:48:25 <TieSoul> Well, don't you have to do a LOT of command line stuff for Linux to work properly? 17:48:30 <pikhq> Depends on the distro. 17:48:48 <pikhq> That's the case for some, but that's because some people like it that way. 17:48:54 <Taneb> I think the issue with Linux is there is sooo muuuuch chooooiiiiice to set it up 17:48:59 <password2> yeah , debian requires no a little 17:49:07 <elliott> ubuntu should pretty much just work on everything with no fuss, but it's certainly different to windows. 17:49:11 <elliott> it may or may not be worth it for you to switch. 17:49:16 <pikhq> *nod* 17:49:16 <Taneb> "Which distro do you want?" "OK, great, now which window manager?" etc 17:49:20 <TieSoul> hrm 17:49:27 <elliott> if you're fine with windows then stick with it; some of the best programmers I know use windows 17:49:27 <ais523_> elliott: Ubuntu is a little less trivial to install as dual boot than it used to be 17:49:28 <password2> Taneb, true , the average user just freezes when they have too many choice 17:49:40 <TieSoul> Yeah, I'm going to stick with Windows 17:49:43 <int-e> Taneb: don't care as long as it isn't Ubuntu; fvwm; next question? ;-) 17:49:47 <zzo38> I try to write program for cross-platform if possible 17:49:50 <ais523_> Taneb: distro + window manager + 32/64bitness are the only three decisions that are typically made nowadays 17:49:55 <elliott> I think fvwm is more of a question than an answer. 17:49:55 <ais523_> my answer, btw: Ubuntu, Unity, 64 bit 17:49:56 <zzo38> Or for Nintendo Family Computer and run them on emulators 17:50:07 <password2> don't forget filemanager 17:50:10 <password2> and shell 17:50:14 <ais523_> because I actually really like Unity 17:50:14 <Taneb> And file system 17:50:17 <TieSoul> or is there a way to get a double-boot Windows-Linux system? Or is that horribly slow? 17:50:20 <password2> i use debian 17:50:25 <ais523_> TieSoul: you can get dual-boot, and it's not horribly slow 17:50:31 <Taneb> I currently use Ubuntu and XMonad 17:50:38 <password2> if you have lotsa cap get debian stable 17:50:45 <ais523_> the only extra time spent is at the boot screen where you decide which to boot 17:50:51 <ais523_> however, it's a little less trivial to set up than it used to be 17:50:54 <elliott> I don't recommend getting Debian stable. 17:50:56 <zzo38> If you want a fast system, get FreeDOS. It boots faster than the time the CRT takes to warm up. 17:50:56 <int-e> (I don't think there is any reason for not using a 64 bit system (at least on x86), the 32bit emulation is quite good, since the processors support it.) 17:50:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39915&oldid=39914 * Ds84182 * (+516) 17:51:04 <password2> *unstable 17:51:06 <ais523_> and if you have any files on the Windows side you care about, you want pretty good backups before starting 17:51:07 <elliott> I also don't think any of you are doing a good job of selling Linux as not a fuss to set up. 17:51:20 <ais523_> elliott: that's because I'm trying to be honest about the issue 17:51:23 <pikhq> elliott: I'm pretty sure we're not. :) 17:51:29 <Bicyclidine> am i being sold to 17:51:30 <pikhq> Erm. Not trying to. 17:51:38 <ais523_> Ubuntu knows how to install itself along Windows 7, natively 17:51:42 <pikhq> Just stating that you don't have to literally use a command line for everything. 17:51:42 <elliott> ais523_: actually I was talking more to everyone other than you 17:51:43 <Bicyclidine> i would like to buy a copy of "More Tales of Pirx the Pilot" 17:51:46 <ais523_> it does not, however, know how to install itself alongside Windows 8 17:51:49 <elliott> Bicyclidine: sold 17:51:55 <ais523_> you can tell it how to do so, but you have to do so manually 17:51:56 <pikhq> ais523_: That's sad. :( 17:52:09 <int-e> elliott: How could I be a judge of that? I've been using Linux since 1993ish, and back then it was a bit of a pain to set up. 17:52:16 <Bicyclidine> booyeah 17:52:18 <password2> can't you install ubuntu from withing windows? 17:52:24 <int-e> All I know is that it got much simpler. 17:52:25 <elliott> ais523_: I bet it actually does know how, it just doesn't know how to handle the GPT/UEFI parts that most Windows 8 systems have? 17:52:32 <password2> *within 17:52:32 <pikhq> Yeah, there is a thing for that, password2. 17:52:39 <elliott> int-e: no, everyone still installs slackware from floppies :) 17:52:41 <ais523_> pikhq: if you know how partitions work, it's pretty easy; on Windows, you shrink partitions to give free space, and turn off fast restart after shutdown; in the Linux installer, you install it to the free space 17:52:47 <ais523_> and then sometimes, you have to mess with the EFI boot order 17:52:51 <int-e> elliott: speak for yourself 17:52:51 <pikhq> ais523_: Yeah, I know. 17:52:54 <ais523_> although whether you do or not seems to be hardware dependent 17:52:54 <elliott> int-e: "ubuntu" is just a running gag. 17:53:07 <int-e> elliott: I use debootstrap from knoppix which isn't exactly the simplest way. 17:53:10 <pikhq> elliott: Which is weird, cause Ubuntu does EFI. 17:53:21 <ais523_> password2: you used to be able to install Ubuntu from within Windows, but that doesn't work on Windows 8 17:53:27 <Taneb> I am using Ubuntu until I get my SSD working 17:53:29 <Bicyclidine> i wish linux on efi didn't seem to be such a pain. i'm prety sure i fucked up upgrading syslinux 17:53:31 <password2> ah i see 17:53:39 <Taneb> Whereupon I shall install a different distro 17:53:47 <password2> i want to see debian boot from ssd 17:53:52 <pikhq> Bicyclidine: It's a typical case of "BIOS makers test Windows only" causing issues. 17:53:53 <elliott> Bicyclidine: I recommend you just use gummiboot (and no separate boot loader) for Linux on EFI. 17:53:53 <ais523_> on my new laptop, the issue seems to be that whenever I go into the BIOS configuration screen, it sets Windows as the default boot, rather than GRUB's boot menu 17:53:53 <TieSoul> I'll just stick with Windows for now 17:54:00 <password2> its already faster than some OS's 17:54:06 <pikhq> Plus "EFI on Linux is not that solid". 17:54:24 <Bicyclidine> urgh, i'm afraid i'm gonna brick myself if i touch it 17:54:29 <elliott> Bicyclidine: fair 17:54:32 <int-e> (Oh, EFI, I've avoided that can of worms so far.) 17:54:32 <password2> ais523_, thats weird 17:54:33 <ais523_> in order to set the boot menu as the default, I have to override the boot order for one boot to get it into Linux (via Esc spam at startup), then use Linux to edit the boot order 17:54:44 <ais523_> luckily you don't have to configure the BIOS very often 17:54:46 <zzo38> I think you can disable UEFI on any Windows 8 computers that are x86 based, due to Microsoft's specification. (On ARM, you can't disable it, again due to Microsoft's specification.) 17:54:47 <ais523_> but still 17:54:57 <Bicyclidine> i had ridiculous problems getting things set up to begin with. people i asked for tech support concluded that my shiny new 1 TB drive was defective 17:55:00 <ais523_> Windows 8 and Linux both prefer UEFI to BIOS 17:55:04 <elliott> zzo38: UEFI is not secure boot 17:55:05 <ais523_> Windows 7 prefers BIOS, though 17:55:12 <pikhq> zzo38: MS doesn't require *that*, it requires that you can disable secure boot. 17:55:12 <elliott> so much FUD 17:55:14 <ais523_> and yeah, your comments relate to secure boot 17:55:16 <Bicyclidine> because the actual problem was, in fact, even more ridiculous 17:55:28 <ais523_> however, the vast majority of laptops also allow disabling UEFI altogether, so that you can install Windwos 7 on them 17:55:35 <elliott> anyway you can worst-case "just", like, use the CSM for BIOS backwards-compatibility 17:55:40 <elliott> I don't think anyone ships motherboards without that 17:55:46 <Bicyclidine> also all the wiki instructions involve $esp and i forget where i put $esp so i'm doomed. 17:55:49 <elliott> and it's automatic if you try and boot something that isn't UEFI 17:56:00 <Bicyclidine> er no wait, i remember. it's just a partition, i can mount it 17:56:13 <elliott> most of the UEFI problems come from when distros try to do it the native UEFI way, which is nicer than relying on the compatibility but currently more fraught for obvious reasons 17:56:14 <Bicyclidine> except that when i tried doing that mount didn't recognize the filesystem. i don't know why i'm allowed near computers 17:56:23 <pikhq> On my desktop EFI basically "just works" perfectly well. On my laptop (which doesn't do BIOS boot on its internal HD!) every now and then I need to literally pull up the EFI command line to boot it. 17:56:41 <pikhq> Thankfully that laptop actually *has* that. 17:56:52 <TieSoul> So what does Linux do better than Windows? 17:56:59 <elliott> Bicyclidine: my setup is I have the esp be /boot and I just have gummiboot set up and it all works automatically (I'm on arch) 17:57:08 <pikhq> TieSoul: Big one is flexibility. 17:57:08 <elliott> TieSoul: tux racer 17:57:10 <ais523_> TieSoul: it's much better for developing software on, IME 17:57:20 <Bicyclidine> i have a /boot and i... don't /think/ it's a partition, or something 17:57:22 <Taneb> TieSoul, it's a lot more configurable 17:57:29 <Taneb> ...which is where most of the issues come from, I guess 17:57:32 <password2> TieSoul, the ap-get 17:57:33 <ais523_> because most development environments treat Windows as a second-class citizen, and the others are Visual Studio 17:57:39 <ais523_> Bicyclidine: it's a rotated root directory 17:57:43 <elliott> flash videos being nigh-unusable is another advantage of linux :P 17:57:44 <Bicyclidine> what 17:57:51 <pikhq> elliott: :) 17:57:54 <FireFly> hehe 17:58:06 <pikhq> Even on my stupid nice box Flash doesn't work nicely. :( 17:58:08 <Bicyclidine> I actually have flash work shockingly well, i can even play games! though it still crashes every two days or so 17:58:09 <ais523_> basically, what happens is that /boot is the root directory while the system is booting; then later during the boot process, it makes another directory into / (the one with all the actual files on) 17:58:10 <password2> elliott, i have no problem with flash 17:58:15 <Bicyclidine> ha, shockingly, i'm great 17:58:23 <ais523_> and it needs to put the old root directory system somewhere, so it uses /boot 17:58:24 <elliott> do you get full AV sync in fullscreen on youtube 17:58:26 <elliott> with no tearing or anything 17:58:28 <Bicyclidine> ais523_: so is it a partition or... well, whatever 17:58:28 <ais523_> that way, you can edit it 17:58:34 <int-e> TieSoul: not *forcing* you on a new desktop every 3 years. 17:58:36 <elliott> ais523_: um... 17:58:38 <ais523_> Bicyclidine: it's a directory, but one that's the only one that's accessible during boot 17:58:39 <Bicyclidine> elliott: with proprietary drivers, yeah. 17:58:42 <pikhq> elliott: When I pass the Youtube URL to mpv, sure. 17:58:43 <elliott> ais523_: that isn't how the boot process works at all 17:58:43 <int-e> (though they do try) 17:58:45 <ais523_> elliott: I may be confusing this with something else 17:58:46 <password2> I played creeper world in fullscreen mode 17:58:51 <pikhq> Not with Flash on proprietary drivers though. 17:58:52 <password2> elliott, no tearing 17:58:55 <elliott> ais523_: /boot contains the kernels and initramfs 17:58:57 <ais523_> I know Linux has a system call to rotate the root directory though 17:59:01 <elliott> the initramfs is mounted as a, well, you know, ramfs 17:59:04 <Bicyclidine> I switched back to mesa and everything broke, so, fuck everything. 17:59:07 <int-e> ais523_: pivot_root 17:59:08 <ais523_> elliott: yes, right 17:59:10 <elliott> which is then / for a while, and then pivots to 17:59:12 <elliott> / 17:59:14 <Bicyclidine> Oh! Did y'all see my mesa problems 17:59:14 <elliott> but /boot itself is never /. 17:59:19 <ais523_> oh, right 17:59:21 <ais523_> I was almost right 17:59:22 <elliott> HAVE WE MENTIONED LINUX IS SIMPLE AND EASY 17:59:23 <password2> only youtube probs i get is when it switches quality the audio jumps back like 0.2s 17:59:33 <Bicyclidine> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/glamor/commit/src/glamor_fbo.c?id=1957b7d713e5408f397412d4beb1317c84ded7ce 17:59:40 <Bicyclidine> very helpful error message when your xorg dies, let me tell you 17:59:42 <zzo38> I consider best way would be, design the BIOS, it is compatible with PC BIOS (so DOS programs run, too) and includes a built-in Forth interpreter (instead of BASIC), with the Forth including functions for BIOS configuration, UEFI configuration (if applicable), terminal emulation, etc 17:59:44 <password2> NOT ENOUGH 17:59:44 <int-e> elliott: it's many parts, all simple and easy (except for the many that aren't) 17:59:45 <ais523_> I've actually been going without Flash on my new laptop, because I haven't figured out how to install it 17:59:52 <ais523_> there are clear and simple instructions that don't actually work 18:00:15 <elliott> int-e: I'm not sure I'd consider any part of a linux system simple and easy :/ 18:00:20 <Bicyclidine> anyway, i'm only worrying about this because i upgraded syslinux but pacman may or may not have told me i needed to do some upgrading. 18:00:21 <elliott> the same goes for windows of course 18:00:28 <password2> the key to linux is to try stuff 18:00:34 <Bicyclidine> manual upgrading, i mean 18:00:48 <zzo38> I think this way I describe would help better; you can then program it and that kind of stuff, it is usable, even if you do not have any operating systems installed at all. 18:00:58 <Bicyclidine> i think my favorite linux problem is when my boss was setting up the computer, he did a regular shutdown in the shell and it failed, which i hadn't even realized was possible 18:01:02 <ais523_> elliott: have you seen Ubuntu Browser? 18:01:13 <FireFly> Ubuntu Browser? 18:01:20 <elliott> ais523_: is that like windows 8 18:01:20 <ais523_> it is amazing 18:01:28 <ais523_> elliott: no, it's /better/ 18:01:31 <elliott> wow 18:01:34 <elliott> what a high bar you've set 18:01:53 <Bicyclidine> it's even better than acorn 18:01:55 <elliott> whelm me adequately 18:01:59 <int-e> elliott: well, there's the kernel itself. systemd is getting messy. who understands dbus? udev ... ok, is lots of simple parts. and then there are more or less monolithic desktop environments 18:02:04 <ais523_> it has no obvious navigation features at all, although you can expose a box with a back and forwards and address bar by clicking at the bottom of the screen 18:02:17 <elliott> int-e: you think the linux kernel is simple and easy...? 18:02:24 <ais523_> also, that menu lets you go to another screen, which lists all the tabs you have open; tabs aren't otherwise tabs, they're just simultaneously open windows 18:02:30 <ais523_> elliott: well, it is compared to the Windows kernel 18:02:30 <int-e> elliott: no I was listing parts that aren't, in my opinion. 18:02:39 <elliott> ais523_: googling suggests it's meant for mobile 18:02:45 <ais523_> this is the entire extent of its functionality 18:02:48 <Bicyclidine> i actually think dbus is kinda neat 18:02:48 <int-e> elliott: sorry. I missed a negation in your statement 18:03:07 <ais523_> elliott: yeah, I actually like it though, although not for actual Web browsing 18:03:12 <ais523_> I've been using it to look at profiler output 18:03:13 <Bicyclidine> though i don't use it on my desktop, probably 18:03:22 <ais523_> I used to use Epiphany for that 18:03:25 <int-e> elliott: so then there's /bin/true, /bin/false, which are definitely easy. :) 18:03:31 <elliott> int-e: I'm not sure systemd is any more or less messy than it ever was :) (though I actually like it, because at least all the complex ugliness has some kind of cohesiveness to it now) 18:03:33 <Bicyclidine> i doubt that 18:03:33 <pikhq> int-e: Not in GNU. 18:03:40 <pikhq> GNU true and false are non-conforming. 18:03:41 <ais523_> that program which removed functionality over time, and collapsed all the menus to a single menu saying "Web" 18:03:55 <ais523_> I assumed that Ubuntu Browser was just Epiphany brought to its logical conclusion 18:03:58 <elliott> Bicyclidine: everything uses dbus, so you quite likely do 18:04:00 <pikhq> elliott: I'm still quite upset about it. Though it's understandable everyone's switching. 18:04:00 <ais523_> no menus, basically no functionality 18:04:06 <pikhq> The perceived options are that or sysvinit. 18:04:11 <pikhq> And sysvinit is... sysvinit. 18:04:12 <ais523_> actually, not enough uses dbus, properly 18:04:19 <zzo38> pikhq: Did you try setting the POSIXLY_CORRECT environment variable? Does that make it conforming? 18:04:19 <int-e> > /bin/true --help 18:04:20 <int-e> Usage: /bin/true [ignored command line arguments] 18:04:20 <Bicyclidine> elliott: Oh, is that so? I thought it was still ubuntuy or whatever. 18:04:21 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input ‘/’ 18:04:28 <ais523_> I was hoping there'd be some way to find out which files were open in any given application, and which currently had focus 18:04:29 <int-e> pikhq: ironically, yes 18:04:38 <Bicyclidine> `true --help 18:04:39 <HackEgo> Usage: true [ignored command line arguments] \ or: true OPTION \ Exit with a status code indicating success. \ \ --help display this help and exit \ --version output version information and exit \ \ NOTE: your shell may have its own version of true, which usually supersedes \ the version described here. Please refer to your s 18:04:49 <ais523_> `run /bin/true --help > /dev/full 18:04:49 <HackEgo> ​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device 18:04:57 <ais523_> `run /bin/true --help > /dev/full; echo $? 18:04:58 <HackEgo> ​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device \ 1 18:04:58 <int-e> `` true --help 18:04:59 <HackEgo> No output. 18:05:10 <int-e> (fortunately it's a builtin in common shells) 18:05:13 <pikhq> zzo38: No, because it is incorrect to require that. :P 18:05:15 <Bicyclidine> Simple 18:05:24 <pikhq> Also, no, that doesn't change it. 18:05:37 <ais523_> we actually found a second way to get /bin/true to return nonzero 18:05:46 <ais523_> set a precise ulimit such that it runs out of memory and segfaults 18:06:02 <ais523_> I'm unaware of any way to get false to return zero, though 18:06:17 <Bicyclidine> `run false --help 18:06:17 <HackEgo> No output. 18:06:29 <Bicyclidine> i feel unhelped 18:06:33 * pikhq wonders why /bin/true even needs dynamic memory 18:06:42 <elliott> ais523_: does LD_PRELOAD count? 18:06:47 <pikhq> int main(){} // should do it 18:06:50 <elliott> pikhq: intl for --help, I'd guess 18:06:54 <int-e> elliott: no 18:06:58 <zzo38> pikhq: You should put return 0 in? 18:07:08 <ais523_> elliott: I hadn't thought of that, so I'm going to say yes 18:07:09 <zzo38> Other than that it should be OK 18:07:11 <pikhq> zzo38: Nope. Implied by ISO C. 18:07:14 <int-e> elliott: neither does replacing the binary by a different one 18:07:21 <ais523_> presumably you --version and hook whatever function it uses to produce output? 18:07:29 <elliott> ais523_: something like that, yes 18:07:33 <elliott> does a clever cosmic ray bit flip count? 18:07:42 <int-e> ais523_: you can add an initialiser function to the .so 18:07:48 <ais523_> elliott: only if you do it reliably 18:08:00 <Bicyclidine> /bin/false is very insecure when run in a solar storm 18:08:06 <elliott> time to look at false's source code ~_~ 18:08:07 <pikhq> ais523_: So, Firewire then. 18:08:24 <ais523_> oh gah, I forgot about DMA-over-Firewire 18:08:34 <ais523_> that has to be one of the biggest POLA violations ever 18:08:42 <Bicyclidine> the amount of chauvinism in assuming that secure programs won't be run inside an event horizon is depressing 18:09:08 <zzo38> I have seen once that a computer has a BIOS where its built-in program is a CD player program. However, I think the best thing to include as the built-in program in BIOS is a Forth interpreter, where this Forth system includes low-level system access, as well as perhaps a few other minor things such as BIOS config commands and a terminal emulator. 18:09:23 <int-e> ais523_: but it's fast! 18:09:33 <elliott> getting false to return 0 without cheating looks really hard 18:09:37 <elliott> maybe the impossible kind of really hard 18:09:51 <Bicyclidine> how pessimistic 18:09:51 <pikhq> zzo38: I take it you love Open Firmware? 18:09:53 <Taneb> elliott, that is the worst kind of really hard 18:09:58 <ais523_> false's help information is localized, right? 18:10:02 <elliott> yes 18:10:08 <elliott> but why would that ever exit with 0? 18:10:08 <password2> i have never used false 18:10:11 <ais523_> are any of the localized strings passed to printf? 18:10:19 <elliott> ooh 18:10:21 <elliott> yes. 18:10:23 <int-e> nice! 18:10:26 <ais523_> if so, all we need is a malicious locale definition 18:10:26 <zzo38> pikhq: I don't think Open Firmware is PC compatible from what I know? 18:10:33 <ais523_> and we can use the printf-%n overflow exploit 18:10:36 <elliott> are we going to write a false 0day shellcode? 18:10:40 <elliott> to make it exit(0)? 18:10:41 <int-e> load shellcode that consists of exit(0) ... hehe. 18:10:50 <pikhq> zzo38: Sadly no. 18:10:57 <elliott> time to email fulldisclosure 18:10:58 <pikhq> Nothing inherit about it, but yeah. 18:11:11 <ais523_> elliott: I think you need root to install the malicious translation files 18:11:17 <int-e> "local invalid exit code vulnerability" 18:11:20 <Bicyclidine> Taneb: impossible is a good kind of really hard. i mean, computer science 18:11:30 <ais523_> although if you can override the path somehow, you wouldn't 18:11:38 <ais523_> you can /definitely/ override the locale, that's a user-accessible setting 18:11:43 <Taneb> Bicyclidine, only if you can prove impossibility! 18:11:57 <Bicyclidine> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/false.c i'm impressed 18:11:58 <ais523_> `run LC_ALL=malicious_NZ.UTF-8 /bin/false --help 18:11:59 <HackEgo> Usage: /bin/false [ignored command line arguments] \ or: /bin/false OPTION \ Exit with a status code indicating failure. \ \ --help display this help and exit \ --version output version information and exit \ \ NOTE: your shell may have its own version of false, which usually supersedes \ the version described here. Please re 18:11:59 <int-e> "The path used for finding locale data can be set using the LOCPATH environment variable." 18:12:04 <pikhq> Modern Linux does let you do a new filesystem namespace and user namespace, thus letting you do root in your own file tree. :) 18:12:23 <ais523_> pikhq: requiers root 18:12:26 <ais523_> *requires 18:12:32 <pikhq> Baah! 18:12:41 <zzo38> That's why, make the PC Forth BIOS. 18:12:47 <Bicyclidine> Act like "true" by default; false.c overrides this. 18:12:51 <elliott> there must be /some/ way to make false exit 0 without root 18:13:06 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:13:07 <elliott> maybe we should just use a local privilege escalation bug. 18:13:07 -!- ^v has joined. 18:13:19 <elliott> it's worth it, to make false exit(0). 18:13:25 <elliott> this is important and we are using our time well. 18:13:44 <ais523_> elliott: I think int-e's LOCPATH suggestion may work 18:13:52 <elliott> oh, I missed that 18:13:57 <ais523_> this conversation actually came up in nethack4.org 18:13:59 <Bicyclidine> wow, factor is pretty involved 18:14:04 <elliott> oh, wait 18:14:08 <ais523_> I explicitly said "what if someone uses a malicious timezone definition?" 18:14:08 <elliott> where are gettext translation files even stored? 18:14:14 <elliott> are they with the locales? 18:14:14 <ais523_> but locale definition isn't gettext translations 18:14:20 <elliott> but we need gettext translations 18:14:22 <int-e> LOCPATH=123 LC_ALL=foo.UTF-8 strace -eopen /bin/false --help ====> open("123/foo.UTF-8/LC_IDENTIFICATION", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) 18:14:23 <ais523_> I think they're normally stored in a directory called "po" 18:14:25 <elliott> the point is to make _ return what we want 18:14:31 <Bicyclidine> is factor actually a posix thing, it seems kind of random for coreutils 18:14:44 <int-e> so the printf thing sounds like a good idea 18:14:48 <ais523_> `which strace 18:14:49 <HackEgo> No output. 18:14:51 <Bicyclidine> whaddya know, it's from 1974 18:15:12 <ais523_> Bicyclidine: I think it's mostly intended for primality checking 18:15:15 <pikhq> Bicyclidine: Not POSIX, but traditional. 18:15:17 <Bicyclidine> «In some variants of Unix, it is classified as a "game" more than a serious utility, and therefore documented in section 6.» 18:15:21 <Bicyclidine> pikhq: so i see. 18:15:38 <elliott> okay, so $LOCPATH/$LC_MESSAGES/LC_MESSAGES/coreutils.mo 18:15:56 <elliott> is the file it looks for the translations in. 18:16:07 -!- aretecode has joined. 18:16:10 <elliott> (I believe.) 18:16:46 <ais523_> and two of those are under user control 18:17:02 <ais523_> including where it's rooted 18:17:39 <ais523_> I guess the first step is to create a translation file consisting of a huge row of %n, to see whether it segfaults 18:17:59 <elliott> I think I'm just going to use this method to run every program from now on. 18:18:07 <elliott> why write a binary when you can use false? 18:18:09 <elliott> oh, hey 18:18:15 <elliott> this is a way to get around a filesystem having noexec set 18:18:18 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 18:18:20 <elliott> ! 18:18:37 <elliott> using coreutils to jump to code for you 18:18:41 <ais523_> assuming that the _ is going to the printf format string and that it doesn't sanitize out %n 18:18:50 <elliott> that seems like sort of a big deal 18:18:58 <int-e> ex falso quodlibet 18:18:58 <ais523_> actually, if _ doesn't sanitize out %n, it probably should, and that's probably a major security bug that we should report 18:19:07 <elliott> I don't think it interprets the string at all 18:19:18 <elliott> probably there should just be a localised version of printf 18:19:24 <ais523_> screw it, I'm gonna plug my laptop back in and check, even though I should be going home 18:19:27 <elliott> that processes the format string and uses gettext internally 18:20:22 <int-e> ais523_: isn't printf(_("Foo: %s Bar: %s"),"foo","bar") sort of supported? 18:20:41 <ais523_> I hope LOCPATH is at least disregarded in suid programs 18:20:44 <ais523_> int-e: it is 18:20:49 <ais523_> you'd want to filter out %n specifically 18:20:51 <elliott> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c#n38 is the promising call here 18:21:05 <elliott> ais523_: you could translate to %s%s%s or whatever, too 18:21:14 <elliott> there's lots of nasty things you can do as a printf format string 18:21:18 <ais523_> that just reads, though 18:21:27 <elliott> that's still pretty bad 18:21:32 <elliott> the program could be storing sensitive things 18:21:39 <elliott> and printing a diagnostic error 18:21:44 <elliott> like, "sorry, these passwords don't match" 18:21:45 <ais523_> bleh, I don't have coreutils osurce here 18:21:48 <ais523_> luckily, the network connected 18:21:50 <elliott> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c 18:21:54 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 18:23:01 <zzo38> How to diff more than one history in PukiWiki? 18:23:33 <pikhq> It seems that indeed, it does check if the binary is SUID and changes the path lookup behavior accordingly. 18:23:38 <pikhq> That's probably for the better. 18:24:06 <ais523_> ``false --help 18:24:07 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `false: not found 18:24:12 <Bicyclidine> What would a malicious timezone look like 18:24:20 <ais523_> `` /bin/false --help 18:24:21 <HackEgo> Usage: /bin/false [ignored command line arguments] \ or: /bin/false OPTION \ Exit with a status code indicating failure. \ \ --help display this help and exit \ --version output version information and exit \ \ NOTE: your shell may have its own version of false, which usually supersedes \ the version described here. Please re 18:24:27 <ais523_> Bicyclidine: very high DST offset to change the date 18:24:56 <pikhq> Bicyclidine: zoneinfo file that exploits a bug in the parser? 18:34:01 <ais523_> the make file for coreutils is broken :-( 18:34:07 <ais523_> make install builds things that make doesn't 18:34:58 <int-e> does it compile stuff or is it "just" libtool relinking everything? 18:35:58 <ais523_> compile 18:41:20 <zzo38> Why don't they make it to change the message languages at compile-time instead? 18:42:04 <zzo38> Default setting should be English with ASCII-only, and then other one can be added later on if they want to. 18:42:06 -!- ^v has joined. 18:42:07 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:42:11 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:42:34 -!- ^v has joined. 18:42:35 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:42:57 -!- ^v has joined. 18:45:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:45:46 <ais523_> bleh, overriding the locale is harder than I thought 18:51:29 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 18:53:06 <tswett> Slide is totally supposed to be Turing-complete. 18:54:18 <ais523_> no good: all the locale machinery respects LOCPATH, but gettext /doesn't/ 18:54:21 <zzo38> tswett: Is it? Do you prove it? 18:54:25 <ais523_> it's not even looking in $LOCPATH for coreutils.mo 18:54:51 <tswett> Theorem. Slide is totally supposed to be Turing-complete. Proof. 18:54:53 <elliott> ais523_: huh? 18:55:07 <ais523_> I've been doing a bunch of stracing to make sure 18:55:19 <elliott> ais523_: that's because you don't have an LC_IDENTIFICATION file, probably 18:55:29 <elliott> oh, hmm 18:55:35 <elliott> you're maybe right :/ 18:55:40 <ais523_> I'm using the one from the existing locale 18:55:52 <elliott> it doesn't even look for .mo at all when you set LOCPATH 18:55:54 <elliott> oddly 18:55:56 <elliott> maybe they anticipated this 18:56:09 <elliott> I guess grepping LOCPATH over gettext would be productive 18:57:08 <ais523_> no LOCPATH anywhere in the gettext source 18:58:38 <elliott> then how is setting LOCPATH preventing it from loading coreutils.mo? 18:58:50 <elliott> do I need to gdb? 18:59:21 <ais523_> elliott: if you set LOCPATH, it makes the setlocale() call fail 18:59:28 <ais523_> unless all the things it loads are on your LOCPATH somewhere 18:59:36 <elliott> but I set it to /usr/share/locale 18:59:51 <ais523_> the trick is LOCPATH=malicious:/usr/share/locale LANG=C.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=malicious 19:01:14 <ais523_> also you need to copy the SYS_LC_MESSAGES fallback from somewhere 19:02:06 <ais523_> to the new locale definition 19:02:17 <ais523_> that gets it to actually translate the messages, but it still doesn't look in $LOCPATH 19:05:31 -!- boily has joined. 19:08:34 <ais523_> elliott: haha, path traversal vulnerability 19:08:56 <ais523_> LANGUAGE=../../../path/to/malicious/definition /bin/false --help 19:10:03 <ais523_> the bad news: the %n appear to be output literally 19:10:05 <elliott> wow 19:10:13 <elliott> huh 19:10:16 <elliott> does %s%s%s work 19:10:34 <ais523_> also there's a SUID check on the path traversal 19:10:44 <ais523_> they disallow slashes in language names when the program's setuid 19:11:28 <ais523_> ooh, I think I can edit a different string 19:11:37 <ais523_> some of these strings are tagged as "#, c-format" 19:11:55 <elliott> any of them in false? 19:12:51 <ais523_> yeah, but the makefile seems to be broken, it's not updating the locale definition any more 19:22:14 <callforjudgement> de.po:12125: format specifications in 'msgid' and 'msgstr' for argument 1 are not the same 19:22:22 <callforjudgement> this can be worked around; this is in the gettext compiler 19:22:36 <callforjudgement> the difficult part is to get it to produce a bugged .gmo file for us 19:23:23 <elliott> just hex-edit it 19:23:42 <ais523_> that's what I'm doing now :-) 19:24:20 <callforjudgement> $ LANGUAGE=../../../home/ais523/research/coreutils/prefix/share/locale/de /bin/false --help 19:24:22 <callforjudgement> Segmentation fault (core dumped) 19:24:36 <callforjudgement> that's the real /bin/false, btw 19:25:09 <int-e> great 19:25:12 <callforjudgement> come to think of it, you don't actually need coreutils source for this at all 19:25:22 <callforjudgement> you could just copy and hex edit the existing coreutils.mo 19:25:41 <callforjudgement> unless the existing message isn't long enough for your shellcode 19:25:46 <callforjudgement> anyway, now that you all know how it's done 19:25:55 <callforjudgement> I'll let you do the shellcode injection while I go home :-) 19:28:03 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 19:28:21 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:28:42 <callforjudgement> oh wow, Ubuntu popped up an error report thing so that I can report the segfault in false 19:28:46 <callforjudgement> I'm going to say no now 19:29:06 <callforjudgement> and wait until we have some way to get a payload into this before I report the bug 19:29:55 <callforjudgement> bye everyone 19:29:57 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 19:45:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39916&oldid=39915 * Ds84182 * (+198) 19:47:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:48:03 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:54:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:03:25 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:06:16 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:12:11 -!- conehead has joined. 20:38:13 -!- lollo64it has joined. 20:42:53 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:54:29 <Phantom_Hoover> holy shit what have you people been doing 20:54:40 <elliott> trying to make /bin/false exit(0) 20:55:38 <Bicyclidine> It's ten minutes from there to the Pentagon, baby. 20:59:23 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:00:24 -!- erdic has joined. 21:00:43 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:01:02 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:01:03 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:01:40 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, it does look like you're just looking for security holes in the internationalisation system in general though 21:02:06 <Bicyclidine> purely accidental. the ogal here is truth 21:02:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: look, we looked at true.c and this was the only way we could think of 21:02:47 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: whatever it takes 21:03:45 <Phantom_Hoover> i know, i know 21:04:35 <Phantom_Hoover> i was just hoping there'd be some small crack in the actual interface between true.c and the locale stuff, since it's so dumb nobody would actually waste time vetting it for security 21:04:44 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:04:54 <elliott> that's sort of what it is 21:04:59 <elliott> they do printf(_("..."), ...); 21:05:06 <Bicyclidine> i for one like that true and false are defined by the same file 21:05:13 <elliott> which basically lets the gettext files do things with memory 21:05:18 <elliott> because printf format strings are unsafe 21:05:27 <elliott> Bicyclidine: it's a bit sad that true is given preference though 21:05:37 <Bicyclidine> why 21:05:42 <elliott> it's asymmetrical! 21:05:49 <elliott> there should be a third file with the actual code 21:05:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:05:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i had somehow got it into my head in previous mockings of true.c that it looked at argv[0] 21:05:57 <zzo38> Not only unsafe, but also somewhat not versatile enough in some cases. 21:05:59 <Phantom_Hoover> which if true would make this all very easy, alas 21:06:09 <Bicyclidine> true. they should use compiler switches to define EXIT_STATUS 21:06:28 <pikhq> Which to be fair is not even really much of a security hole in this particular context. The environment of a program is typically assumed to be trusted on Unix. 21:06:37 <pikhq> Except for SUID stuff. 21:06:43 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it sets the program name to it, but doesn't seem to do anything unsafe with it 21:07:07 -!- Bike has joined. 21:07:19 <elliott> pikhq: I think being able to set an environment variable and have "if false; ...; fi" stuff execute in a shell script (with a dumb enough shell) is rather bad 21:07:24 <zzo38> pikhq: It is generally how I have deal with it too; I usually don't deal with kind of security flaw if it isn't meant to be SUID or remote data or whatever like that. 21:07:33 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:07:39 <zzo38> Internet Quiz Engine avoids buffer overflows by not having any buffers! 21:07:41 <elliott> pikhq: one thing this should let you do is bypass noexec stuff 21:07:54 <pikhq> (and as gettext does actually not trust the environment in SUID, well...) 21:08:14 <pikhq> elliott: Basically my point is that this isn't any *worse* than LD_PRELOAD. 21:08:26 <elliott> LD_PRELOAD requires +x, right? 21:09:14 <Bicyclidine> i recently found out the suggested bugfixes for a particular thing for me were (a) LD_PRELOAD and (b) editing the binary 21:09:19 <Bicyclidine> so that's cool. 21:09:57 <pikhq> Hrm, I don't know if glibc actually requires +x. 21:10:40 <elliott> it had better 21:10:43 <elliott> noexec isn't meant to be that useless 21:11:29 <zzo38> I don't really like gettext and I have made a simpler kind of thing which could be used for dynamic internationalization: Two things are exposed to the program, one function to load the strings from a file, and an array of string pointers. Internationalized strings in the source code are then replaced by array accesses, and the strings themself are written out to a file (similar to the pool strings in WEB). 21:12:15 <zzo38> I think you could also make it use a pre-existing string file so that existing strings keep their same ID numbers. 21:12:44 <pikhq> Seeing as +x isn't needed for libraries-in-general, it might *not*... 21:13:59 <zzo38> Do you think my way better than GNU? 21:14:16 <pikhq> (incidentally, LD_LIBRARY_PATH is searched for libraries *before* the system configured paths) 21:14:21 <elliott> I sort of think shared libraries should require +x 21:14:31 <elliott> they are executable code that gets executed 21:14:40 <elliott> you can even try and run them! 21:14:58 <pikhq> I'm also pretty sure that it's generally assumed that execute permissions aren't really a security feature. 21:15:10 <pikhq> (whether or not they *should* be is a separate issue) 21:15:38 <elliott> yeah, but noexec exists and people recommend using it for hardening. that's kinda silly because of how useless it is, but given that it exists it should probably be less useless 21:16:32 <pikhq> True, it is goofy that it exists while being *misleading*. 21:17:05 <pikhq> Only preventing cases of pilot error rather than being at all about hardening... 21:22:28 <zzo38> What is a simple way to implement something like OPLL FM synthesis? 21:23:06 <Bicyclidine> permissions aren't a security feature, huh 21:23:07 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:31:23 * pikhq blinks. LD_PRELOAD on glibc works for suid binaries if the LD_PRELOAD list doesn't have a '/' in it. 21:35:08 <int-e> oh well. 21:43:04 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/JBhf 21:44:18 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, i thought there were measures in place for using LD_PRELOAD with suid binaries 21:45:26 <Bicyclidine> EXPLOITED 21:46:57 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Yep. Apparently it needs to be a library in the system library path, or configured with /etc/ldpreload.conf or some such 21:47:58 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, ASLR? 21:48:06 <int-e> address space layout randomization 21:48:14 <Bicyclidine> fucks up a lot of shellcode injctions. 21:48:34 <pikhq> Which is of course the point. 21:48:47 <int-e> (there is no shell code actually; the exit value is already on the stack when printf is called, in the /bin/false binary here) 21:49:14 <int-e> so I'm just poking 0 there 21:49:18 <Bicyclidine> o well 21:49:30 <int-e> or 256, which has the same effecty 21:49:30 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:49:42 <elliott> int-e: beautiful 21:58:36 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:58:40 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:59:18 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:05:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:05:55 -!- mhi^ has joined. 22:08:07 <oerjan> <tswett> Whelp, Funciton is my favorite esolang at the moment. <-- it is pretty nice 22:14:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39917 * Javamannen * (+1855) The Holy Quest for a New and Improved BytePusher has begun! You too can be a Knight! 22:15:16 <int-e> `` diff <(cat /proc/self/maps) <(cat /proc/self/maps) 22:15:17 <HackEgo> 29c29 \ < 7fbfafb000-7fbfb1c000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 \ --- \ > 7fbfde4000-7fbfe05000 rw-p 00000000 00:00 0 22:15:50 <int-e> (without ASLR, the output would be empty) 22:16:25 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:17:08 <Bicyclidine> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-dUx9fgbW0 feel it. 22:18:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Works in progress]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39918&oldid=39448 * Javamannen * (+20) Added BytePusher II to list 22:20:47 <Quintopia> ahoily! 22:28:03 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 22:28:31 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 22:28:48 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Me sais Laptop sleepy.). 22:31:04 <Taneb> Tanelle. 22:31:10 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523_> I found that 8 became tolerable when I removed edge gestures from the touchpad <-- i have this bug in my touchpad driver that occasionally makes it forget i've disabled that. (and sometimes it instead chooses to scroll whatever page i'm on all the way to the top.) 22:31:11 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 22:33:08 <boily> Taneb: eh? wut? you... auto tanelled yourself? 22:33:21 <boily> Quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! 22:33:24 <oerjan> it may have been that bug that caused my blue screen of death yesterday, for the first time. although that may also have been keeping my browser open too long. 22:33:36 <Taneb> boily, I felt like saving you the effort 22:34:16 <Quintopia> boily: enjoying the steam sale? 22:34:45 <boily> no, I'm enjoying the 10% off on québec products at the SAQ :D 22:34:57 <oerjan> i try to restart my browser about once a day to prevent that, but lately i've been having too many shtetl-optimized tabs i don't want to lose my place in 22:34:59 <boily> (we're celebrating la St-Jean à soir!) 22:35:06 <Quintopia> what is SAQ 22:35:13 <boily> Société des Alcools du Québec. 22:35:27 <Quintopia> government-run store? 22:35:34 <boily> exactly right spot on. 22:35:48 <Quintopia> so weird 22:35:52 <oerjan> is it a monopoly like the scandinavian ones 22:36:01 <Phantom_Hoover> is this that whole weird alcohol monopoly thing 22:36:07 <Quintopia> the idea of a vinmonopolet weirds me 22:37:07 <boily> oerjan: it is, so they tax us with outrageous taxes, along with some artificial overpricing and taxes on top of it. 22:37:18 <oerjan> "vinmonopolet" translates to "the wine monopoly" you can't put "a" in front hth 22:38:22 <Quintopia> oerjan: sure i can. i did. 22:39:43 <oerjan> ok you can, but you _may_ not hth 22:40:35 <boily> «le vinmonopolet» 22:40:53 <Quintopia> it may translate with an article, but it's still the name of a store, and i can always turn the name of a store into a category of store, and then i can refer to particular stores in that category with an indefinite article 22:41:09 <FireFly> It's the name of a store? 22:41:40 <FireFly> Oh, it is 22:42:45 <oerjan> Quintopia: the term for a single unarticled store is "vinmonopol" or to be formal "vinmonopolutsalg" hth 22:43:16 <boily> what is a tsalg? 22:43:32 <FireFly> 'utsalg', you mean 22:43:49 <oerjan> ut = out, salg = sale 22:44:16 <Quintopia> oerjan: but as a brand name, it's vinmonopolet! 22:44:32 <zzo38> I want to be able to support, in a music playback, to have a 6502 emulation which has registers to do three kind of things: sample playback (with the features of Impulse Tracker), OPL2 emulation (for use with some Scream Tracker files), and Amiga LED filter emulations (for use with Amiga Protracker files). 22:44:33 <Quintopia> and the idea still weirds me 22:44:36 <oerjan> Quintopia: tricky 22:45:12 <boily> FireFly: “tsalg” is more euphonic, I say. 22:45:20 <Quintopia> i think scandinavian countries should outlaw alcohol. 22:45:34 <zzo38> You could have, $0000-$3FFF = RAM, $4000-$7FFF = audio registers, $8000-$FFFF = ROM (bankswitched). 22:45:40 <FireFly> Apparently Norway did, between 1917 and 1922 22:45:44 <Quintopia> it'd do wonders for prices and organized crime 22:46:05 <FireFly> And Finland between 1919 and 1932 22:46:41 <Quintopia> and they still ended up with monopolies? do scandinavian mobsters have no balls? 22:46:47 <oerjan> boily: norwegian really doesn't use "ts" at the beginning of words, except in loan words like tsatsiki and tse-tse-flue 22:47:36 <oerjan> and the less pedantic may pronounce it as just s even then 22:48:04 <oerjan> i'm not even sure which is considered most correct 22:50:00 <oerjan> FireFly: vinmonopolet used to be more than just the store, but the eu forced us to disband the import monopoly part 22:51:28 <oerjan> <FireFly> Apparently Norway did, between 1917 and 1922 <-- only hard liquor afair 22:51:57 <shachaf> oerjan: you were around back then? 22:52:05 <oerjan> MAYBE 22:52:16 <shachaf> only mod. surprising, i suppose 22:52:22 <oerjan> my recall is from some time reading about it, though. 22:53:47 <pikhq> Aaaah, prohibition and temperance. 22:54:01 <pikhq> Such an amusingly counterproductive set of policies. 22:54:18 <Quintopia> the best way to make people quit drinking is to give away really shitty alcohol for free 22:54:33 <oerjan> methanol is really effective for that hth 22:54:53 <Quintopia> indeed 22:55:05 <boily> tdhaa. 22:55:09 <boily> s/dh/dnh/ 22:55:28 <Quintopia> it is not perfectly effective though 22:55:30 <oerjan> boily: sure it does, i guarantee they'll quit 22:55:39 <Quintopia> as can be seen in hobos drinking rubbing alcohol when they get desperate 22:56:09 <oerjan> i don't think rubbing alcohol is methanol? 22:56:45 <boily> rubbing is a mix of ethanol and isopropanol. 22:56:46 <douglass> it's isopropyl alcohol 22:56:50 <douglass> usually no ethanol 22:56:52 <douglass> some water 22:56:54 <douglass> 30% water 22:57:16 <douglass> may vary between countries 22:57:34 <oerjan> hi douglass tell kmc we would like him back :( 22:57:42 <pikhq> In the US it's a solution of isopropanol. I imagine the choice varies depending on the country. 22:57:45 <boily> kmc disappeared? noooooooooo! 22:58:48 <pikhq> douglass: Weird. In the US "rubbing alcohol" is defined to be 68-99% isopropanol by volume. :) 23:01:19 <douglass> I'm not sure what the 99% stuff is actually meant for. Maybe for super-cheap people like me who dilute it themselves to save money? 23:02:00 <pikhq> Burning, I presume. 23:04:22 <douglass> Right, alcohol stoves are a thing. 23:04:40 <Bicyclidine> what a broad idea of rubbing 23:04:59 <douglass> I was only thinking of this use as "well, I know that's why people buy it, but I'd think stores would not deliberately cater to foolish college students" 23:05:53 <Bicyclidine> hm why is the preferred name 2-propanol instead of propan-2-ol. 23:06:10 <boily> if you're at a party and a chemistry student offers you some of his homemade «robine» that already smells like vomit even before it went through somebody's mouth once, just say no. 23:06:49 <oerjan> ~duck robine 23:06:59 <douglass> What is robine? 23:07:00 <Taneb> robine = mouthwash? 23:07:03 <Taneb> ??/ 23:08:15 <Taneb> Oh, rubbing alcohol 23:10:23 -!- metasepia has joined. 23:10:48 <MDude> Hi 23:11:12 <boily> Taneb: as you pointed out, qc:robine = en:“rubbing alcohol”. we call alcoholic hobos «robineux». 23:11:18 <boily> MDude: hi! 23:11:25 <Taneb> I shall goodnight now 23:11:28 * Taneb --> bed 23:11:31 <boily> bonne tanuitb! 23:11:33 <Bicyclidine> the use-mention distinction there seems odd 23:20:19 <Phantom_Hoover> according to wikipedia brainfuck's typing discipline is 'static, strong, manifest' 23:21:25 <Bicyclidine> admittedly i have never run into a type error in brainfuck. 23:23:56 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: having just one type would tend to imply that, no 23:24:31 <Phantom_Hoover> i dunno about 'manifest', you're not exactly declaring the type anywhere 23:24:55 <Phantom_Hoover> (in fact the ragged edges of the implementation are mostly there because of that) 23:25:02 <Phantom_Hoover> s/implementation/specification/ 23:35:50 <oerjan> hm 23:36:20 <oerjan> well you could say that since you never declare any variables, all declared variables are manifestly typed hth 23:38:26 <oerjan> does this mean underload is manifestly typed too 23:39:25 <boily> ~duck manifest 23:39:28 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 23:39:31 <boily> ... 23:39:40 <oerjan> ~metar ENVA 23:39:41 <metasepia> ENVA 232250Z 25009KT 9999 SCT020 BKN050 09/06 Q1020 RMK WIND 670FT 26008KT 23:39:43 <boily> AAAAAAAAARGH STUPID BOT DE MARCHE TOUT CROCHE AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! 23:39:48 <oerjan> see, not 10 hth 23:39:56 <boily> oh. indeed. 23:39:58 <boily> ~metar CYUL 23:39:59 <metasepia> CYUL 232300Z 12007KT 30SM FEW065 OVC210 26/11 A3000 RMK SC1CI8 SC TR SLP159 DENSITY ALT 1300FT 23:46:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:46:49 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:47:42 <FireFly> ~metar ESSA 23:47:43 <metasepia> ESSA 232320Z 35010KT 9999 BKN007 09/08 Q1011 TEMPO BKN010 23:50:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:50:12 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:59:07 <zzo38> I cannot get this FM synthesizer to work properly! 2014-06-24: 00:00:28 <boily> in which context is it not working properly? 00:00:57 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:01:21 <zzo38> I am trying to write a suitable FM synthesizer to synthesize samples for AmigaMML. 00:02:09 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:02:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 00:04:55 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:08:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:08:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:09:48 -!- Frooxius has quit (Client Quit). 00:11:29 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:16:40 -!- redryder has joined. 00:23:23 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:23:30 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 00:24:42 <zzo38> Well, I did get the PADsynth to work in AmigaMML. 00:24:54 <zzo38> But, not FM synth; I cannot get that to work very well! 00:26:07 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:26:33 <zzo38> Do you have advice for writing a proper FM synthesizer (but is not too complicated)? 00:26:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:32:47 <boily> probably through additive synthesis. it may not be real pure standard fm synthesis, but it's cheap and easy to play with. 00:35:12 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:35:27 <boily> (that beta between the two operators in the first diagram on the wikipédia article confuses me.) 00:35:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:36:51 <zzo38> I mean I would intend to implement each operator, where each operator consists of ADSR envelope (with a fixed sustain duration of zero), a tremolo flag, vibrato flag, rectify-waveform flag, and a frequency modulator input. 00:37:03 <zzo38> What is the proper way to do it? 00:40:48 * boily ponders... 00:40:52 <Sgeo_> Should I be looking at Swift? 00:40:59 <Sgeo_> Will Swift ever be usable on non-Apple machines? 00:41:34 <boily> zzo38: have you ever used Reason, or anything similar? 00:41:39 <boily> Sgeo_: yes, maybe. 00:42:27 <zzo38> No, I have not used those 00:42:33 <zzo38> I have used Csound 00:42:50 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:42:52 <zzo38> I am not exactly sure what "Reason" is, although I have heard of it 00:43:07 <boily> well, Reason is very visual, and you stack and connect different modules in a virtual rack. they demos explain quite a bit of how it works. 00:43:18 <boily> https://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/ 00:43:25 <boily> s/they/their/ 00:44:28 <boily> on implementation possibility: you'd have a generator, generating pure samples. nothing more than a level. and then you'd pipe that level through various filters and distortions. 00:44:32 <zzo38> I have used other DAW software on other people's computer, but I just prefer Csound myself; it is the best kind of DAW software in my opinion. 00:45:07 <zzo38> Csound does work like you describe; you can do it like that, or use commands to generate the tone directly, or a combination of such. 00:46:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:47:23 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:47:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:48:05 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:48:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:48:25 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:49:54 -!- Bike has joined. 00:54:16 <boily> I shall shamelessly abandon you and disappear on a rented bike for the night. I will return tomorrow. 00:54:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FREQUENT CHICKEN). 00:54:41 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:00:02 <zzo38> I have seen much of the other software and conclude that Csound is still the best one (Csound is also Free software, was written in 1986, and is still being updated today). 01:03:43 <zzo38> Both batch and live modes are supported, it supports MIDI and audio I/O, both from file and live, can load extensions (Csound extensions, VST extensions, and LADSPA extensions), and it can be used as a VST extension, and it supports optional FLTK GUI, and then many other input devices: keyboard, mouse, joystick, and Wii remotes. 01:04:17 <zzo38> Csound is also usable as a Ableton Live extension if you wish to do so. 01:07:49 <zzo38> I have not used most of these features, but they are there. 01:08:27 <zzo38> The only type of input I have used is from a text file, and the only type of output is to a audio file. 01:08:30 <zzo38> But, it can do much more. 01:09:33 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:09 -!- tromp has joined. 01:28:11 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 01:28:35 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 02:16:43 -!- redryder has quit. 02:19:41 -!- password2 has joined. 02:26:50 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 02:35:12 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:13:49 -!- Froox has joined. 03:13:50 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:27:03 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:43:03 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:44:44 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 03:46:40 -!- ^v has joined. 04:13:34 <zzo38> Now I made version 0.4 of AmigaMML. Do you like this? 04:16:34 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 04:20:35 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:21:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:23:13 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:25:14 -!- nooodl__ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:29:48 -!- password2 has joined. 04:32:15 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:37:13 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:42:25 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 04:53:37 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 04:56:27 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:00:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:03:57 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:04:55 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:21:07 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:29:38 <Sgeo_> "What a shame. I was hoping for a list of truly bizarre programming languages, in the vein of APL, MUMPS and PHP. " 05:29:42 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguages/comments/1wivj6/10_most_bizarre_programming_languages_ever/ 05:30:46 <shachaf> Sgeo_ what are you doing 05:30:59 <Sgeo_> Reading /r/ProgrammingLanguages 05:52:54 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:53:32 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:56:14 -!- atehwa has joined. 05:57:25 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:00:04 <zzo38> Does anyone else ever make such things where logical negation rules are considered as structural rules? 06:00:37 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:05:58 -!- atehwa has joined. 06:07:37 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:08:08 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:11:44 <Bike> Not once. 06:26:16 -!- ^v has changed nick to v^. 06:26:20 -!- v^ has changed nick to ^0. 06:29:39 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:31:34 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:32:50 -!- augur has joined. 07:08:12 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:19:23 -!- b_jonas has joined. 07:32:17 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:32:52 -!- subleq has joined. 07:37:16 -!- vifino has joined. 08:08:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:09:43 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:45:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:57:50 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 09:17:43 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:31:19 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:03:52 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:15:10 -!- tromp__ has joined. 10:16:06 -!- tromp___ has joined. 10:16:34 -!- idris-bot has joined. 10:16:52 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:16:55 -!- tromp____ has joined. 10:19:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:19:57 -!- tromp has joined. 10:20:13 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:20:49 -!- tromp___ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:20:49 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:20:57 -!- tromp has joined. 10:23:49 -!- tromp____ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:30:01 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:51:04 -!- yorick has joined. 10:57:19 -!- shikhout has joined. 10:57:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:58:16 -!- augur has joined. 11:00:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:02:12 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 11:02:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:06:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 11:18:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 11:29:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:31:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:32:40 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:34:17 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 11:34:17 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:36:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 11:41:51 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:51:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:58:32 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:12:47 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:37:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:57:41 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:37 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:02:44 -!- TieSoul_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:32:52 -!- TieSoul has joined. 13:36:49 <impomatic_> Does anyone recognise this programming language? https://twitter.com/john_metcalf/status/481366103424512000/photo/1 13:39:07 <b_jonas> impomatic_: I don't recognize that 13:39:31 <b_jonas> impomatic_: it's probably something old because it has ".and.", could it be a fortran variant? 13:39:37 <b_jonas> dialect 13:41:36 <impomatic_> b_jonas: I think it's the dBase language, but I don't remember ever using dBase... 13:43:58 <boily> I don't think it's dBase, per wikipédia's examples. 13:46:19 <impomatic_> I'm going by the colour codes, e.g. W/BG+ for white text on a cyan background. 13:46:55 <impomatic_> Although something else might use the same / similar codes. 13:49:03 <b_jonas> impomatic_: it ays W+/BG 13:49:08 <b_jonas> the plus is in the middle 13:49:27 <b_jonas> it probably means intensity, so W+/BG is bright white on cyan background 13:49:36 <boily> b_jonas: http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=632745 13:49:36 <impomatic_> Yes, sorry (was typing from memory) 13:50:01 <b_jonas> boily: nice, that matches 13:56:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:58:14 -!- heroux has joined. 14:03:45 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:06:29 <fizzie> I like how the only reply to the "what language is this?" tweet is "what language is this?" 14:31:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:37:41 -!- subleq has joined. 14:41:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39919 * GreyKnight * (+1752) I suppose I should be a Knight 14:51:23 <MDream> I ought to bother logging into the wiki again, if only to take the time to categorize uncateogrized pages. 14:52:19 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:00:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:00:13 -!- HackEgo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:00:54 -!- HackEgo has joined. 15:02:58 <boily> Gregor: 503 SERVICE UNAVAILABLE!!!1!!one!!!1!!11! 15:03:09 <boily> (oh. hm. it seems to be back to normal.) 15:08:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:16:27 -!- wagner has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:17:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39920&oldid=39917 * GreyKnight * (+52) categories 15:17:21 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:26:15 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:26:25 -!- HackEgo has joined. 15:30:11 -!- subleq has joined. 15:31:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Turning tarpit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39921&oldid=33737 * GreyKnight * (+70) this page isn't itself a turning tarpit! 15:36:16 <MDude> I dunno about that, I think descriptions of a general category go in the category they describe, or at least that's how Wikiepedia does it. 15:36:58 <MDude> Either that or the category page needs to link to the description from the category page description. 15:37:21 <MDude> Oh it is linked. 15:50:40 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 15:53:15 <myname> is lambda calculus considered a turing tarpit? 15:57:30 <int-e> good question. it starts out as one, but you have higher order functions which are extremely neat for abstraction, so in principle you can get out of the pit. 15:58:41 <MDude> I find it odd that two brainfuck derivatives are in that category, but not the original. 15:58:57 <ion> Shouldn’t a turing tarpit be difficult? Is lambda calculus considered difficult? 15:58:58 <MDude> Maybe jus tmake brainfuck derivatives a turing tarpit subcategorey? 15:59:16 <MDude> *category 15:59:31 <MDude> *just make 16:00:06 <ion> I’d be okay with calling SKI calculus difficult to use but perhaps not lambda calculus. 16:02:36 <int-e> ion: yet there's a straight-forward translation from lambda calculus to SKI calculus 16:03:23 <int-e> (though you have a point there; the only way I've ever written unlambda programs beyond hello world is by writing them in lambda calculus) 16:03:27 <ion> There’s an even more straight-forward translation from the usual lambda calculus to one with de Bruijn indices and i’d also call the latter difficult to use. 16:04:34 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:05:36 -!- augur has joined. 16:23:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:24:33 -!- heroux has joined. 16:30:35 -!- mihow has joined. 16:42:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:43:01 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:43:51 -!- heroux has joined. 16:53:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DECIDUOUS CHICKEN). 16:57:55 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:00:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:10:43 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:17:09 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:21:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:26:47 -!- heroux has joined. 17:28:59 -!- augur has joined. 17:29:33 <FireFly> impomatic_: it looks BASIC-y to me 17:30:31 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:30:53 -!- augur has joined. 17:41:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:53:12 <FireFly> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/3kdwea32(v=vs.80).aspx looks similar 17:56:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:58:24 -!- Bike has joined. 18:04:22 -!- redryder has joined. 18:08:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:12:20 -!- TieSoul has changed nick to TieSoul_. 18:13:05 -!- TieSoul_ has changed nick to TieSoul-mobile. 18:13:19 -!- TieSoul-mobile has changed nick to TieSoul. 18:14:21 -!- heroux has joined. 18:15:19 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:35:13 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:35:38 -!- mihow has joined. 18:41:17 -!- heroux has joined. 19:01:16 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:06:02 -!- boily has joined. 19:12:33 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 19:13:09 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:14:51 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:16:39 -!- aretecode has joined. 19:17:31 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 19:25:26 <fizzie> Perhaps not terribly unlikely for dBase and FoxPro languages to look similar. 19:26:48 <fizzie> I believe FoxPro's been a dBase look-alike in its past. 19:27:19 <fizzie> Having .T. for truth and then && etc. instead of .AND. looks kinda strange. 19:36:50 <b_jonas> fizzie: isn't that a fortranism? 19:37:22 <b_jonas> all old programming languages from that era had that because you couldn't punch && to a punch card. && was spreaded by the success of C later. 19:38:25 <boily> & didn't exist on punch cards? 19:39:12 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 19:40:11 <fizzie> b_jonas: Having .T. and .AND. both wouldn't look strange. But FireFly's FoxPro link had .T. yet still &&. 19:40:46 <fizzie> (FORTRAN spells it .TRUE., too.) 19:40:47 <b_jonas> fizzie: probaby because it's not that old 19:41:40 <fizzie> Then it shouldn't have .T. either. 19:41:49 <b_jonas> why, what should it have instead? 19:42:13 <fizzie> .T. obviously pairs with the .X. style boolean operators. 19:42:16 <b_jonas> a keyword like TRUE? 19:42:23 <b_jonas> or just 1? 19:42:47 <b_jonas> or (0=0)? 19:43:07 -!- tswett has joined. 19:43:54 <tswett> douglass: I think it's significantly harder to make 99% isopropanol than 70% isopropanol or whatever. 19:45:00 <douglass> This makes sense, and yet when I've seen it for sale it doesn't seem correspondingly more expensive. 19:45:22 <douglass> Also 70% has (or should have) higher demand because it's better at disinfecting thins 19:45:42 <tswett> Mm, Wikipedia says that distilling gives you 91% ABV. 19:46:16 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:46:44 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:45 <fizzie> Well, I mean. They've clearly copied .T. from somewhere. dBASE, most likely. Which also has .OR., .NOT. and so on. 19:47:35 <fizzie> Anyway, never mind since I just totally misread the sample. :p 19:47:49 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:47:49 * impomatic_ opens a random box of computers :-) 19:47:53 <fizzie> Turns out && is the inline comment indicator. 19:47:56 <impomatic_> It's like Christmas... 19:49:02 <fizzie> (Though they *also* seem to have dropped the dots out of the operators, and just kept them as keywords AND and OR.) 19:53:50 -!- skarn has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:57:25 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:57:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:58:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RYANNINJASHEEP * New user account 19:59:24 <tswett> My brain initially broke that up as Ryannin Jasheep. 20:01:28 <tswett> りゃんにん・ジャシープ 20:03:01 <olsner> who's ryannin jasheep? 20:03:14 <tswett> I don't know. 20:04:44 <int-e> playing with http://wordsmith.org/anagram/ ... "Japan Yen Shrine" is an anagram of "Ryannin Jasheep". 20:09:14 <boily> maybe “ryannin” is some kind of weird chinese-dialect-imported-into-japanese meaning 「二人」... 20:10:37 <boily> (but that doesn't explain what's a “jasheep” at all.) 20:11:45 <olsner> maybe Ja Rule rules over Ja Sheep 20:14:43 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:15:10 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:16:20 -!- mihow has joined. 20:17:13 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 20:24:14 -!- erdic has joined. 20:26:14 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 20:30:01 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:39:08 -!- mihow has joined. 20:50:31 -!- lollo64it has joined. 20:55:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Slide]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39922 * GreyKnight * (+980) Created page with "Wouldn't it be better to use spaces for empty space? I've also been using "#" for immovables in my scribblings here. Of course, the input syntax doesn't really matter once e..." 20:55:44 -!- hubs has quit (K-Lined). 20:58:00 -!- hubs has joined. 21:05:30 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:12:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:14:52 -!- Bike has joined. 21:18:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:19:47 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 21:21:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:23:15 -!- Bike has joined. 21:31:40 <oerjan> <impomatic_> Does anyone recognise this programming language? https://twitter.com/john_metcalf/status/481366103424512000/photo/1 <-- no, but now i know what you look like *MWAHAHAHA* 21:36:04 <oerjan> <MDude> Maybe jus tmake brainfuck derivatives a turing tarpit subcategorey? <-- to me turing tarpit implies minimalism, and not all brainfuck derivatives are minimalistic. 21:36:21 <oerjan> @tell MDude <MDude> Maybe jus tmake brainfuck derivatives a turing tarpit subcategorey? <-- to me turing tarpit implies minimalism, and not all brainfuck derivatives are minimalistic. 21:36:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 21:38:13 <oerjan> <ion> Shouldn’t a turing tarpit be difficult? Is lambda calculus considered difficult? <-- lambda calculus is a turing tarpit that, unlike most others, minimalizes on abstraction itself. therefore it can be one while still being useable. 21:38:27 <oerjan> @tell ion <ion> Shouldn’t a turing tarpit be difficult? Is lambda calculus considered difficult? <-- lambda calculus is a turing tarpit that, unlike most others, minimalizes on abstraction itself. therefore it can be one while still being useable. 21:38:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 21:42:05 -!- redryder has quit. 21:44:20 <shachaf> oerjan: your evil schemes involve knowing what people look like? 21:45:00 <Bicyclidine> truly insidious, no? 21:45:04 <oerjan> how else can my robots recognize them 21:45:29 <shachaf> well i look like this http://slbkbs.org/sb/1.png hth 21:45:30 <oerjan> i suppose dna, but that's even harder to find via internet 21:46:56 <oerjan> shachaf: i always knew you were a fan 21:47:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:48:48 -!- Bike has joined. 21:58:08 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:58:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:59:28 * boily spins shachaf round and round and round “weeeeeee” 22:01:07 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:04:03 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:21:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39923&oldid=39919 * Ryanninjasheep * (+135) /* A Question... */ new section 22:25:27 <nooodl> boily: bonjoily 22:30:00 -!- Zuu has joined. 22:30:55 <nooodl> #esoteric challenge: fire up a text editor and write fizzbuzz in, C or something, without hitting backspace 22:31:14 <nooodl> i'm gonna try this?? oh god 22:31:50 <nooodl> "#include <td" welp 22:33:13 <elliott> nooodl: just make td.h 22:33:30 <nooodl> wow yes i should've rolled with this. damn 22:34:10 <Bicyclidine> (loop for i from 1 to 100 when (zerop (mod i 3)) do (print "fizz") when (zerop (mod i oh i forget an unless, well, blah. 22:34:56 <nooodl> oh jesus i started the worst indentation habit but now i have to roll with it 22:35:45 <elliott> unlines [s | i <- [1..100], let p = (i `mod` 3) == 0, let q = (i `mo` 5 == 0), let s = if p then "Fizz" else "" ++ if q then "Buzz" else ""] 22:35:49 <elliott> where 22:35:53 <elliott> mo = mod 22:36:00 <Bicyclidine> smooth. 22:36:02 <nooodl> :D 22:36:03 <elliott> let's just pretend I put main = putStr $ in front of that 22:36:17 <nortti> I assume all vi commands for deleting or changing text are also prohibited in the challenge? 22:36:27 <Bicyclidine> > unlines [s | i <- [1..100], let p = (i `mod` 3) == 0, let q = (i `mo` 5 == 0), let s = if p then "Fizz" else "" ++ if q then "Buzz" else ""] where mo = mod 22:36:28 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:143: parse error on input ‘where’ 22:36:35 <nooodl> for vi you enter insert mode and never look back 22:36:38 <Bicyclidine> what, you need a newline, huh. 22:36:44 <elliott> > let mo = mod in unlines [s | i <- [1..100], let p = (i `mod` 3) == 0, let q = (i `mo` 5 == 0), let s = if p then "Fizz" else "" ++ if q then "Buzz" else ""] 22:36:45 <lambdabot> "\n\nFizz\n\nBuzz\nFizz\n\n\nFizz\nBuzz\n\nFizz\n\n\nFizz\n\n\nFizz\n\nBuzz\... 22:36:47 <elliott> you need main = 22:36:48 <elliott> unfortunately 22:36:53 <shachaf> "... where ..." isn't an expression 22:36:54 <Bicyclidine> sux 22:36:58 <elliott> aw I guess the \ns are cheating 22:37:23 <nooodl> minimalist fizzbuzz 22:39:25 <nooodl> fizzbuzz isn't hard enough though. hm 22:40:00 <Bicyclidine> Prime sieve? 22:40:08 <Bicyclidine> well, i could just name infinite programming tasks, i guess. 22:41:20 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:44:44 <nooodl> > let ps = 2 : 3 : filter p [5,7,..]-- oops what did i o 22:44:45 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:32: parse error on input ‘..’ 22:45:29 <Bicyclidine> > [5,7,..] -- i thought this worked. 22:45:30 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: parse error on input ‘..’ 22:45:37 <Bicyclidine> > [5,7,...] 22:45:38 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:9: parse error on input ‘]’ 22:45:48 <nooodl> > let ps = filter p [2..] where p n = all (\x -> mod n x == 0) [2..n-1] in ps 22:45:52 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:46:18 <nooodl> excellent 22:47:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:47:39 <nooodl> oh. == 22:48:24 <nooodl> pretend i caught that just a bit earlier and 22:48:25 <nooodl> > let ps = filter p [2..] where p n = all (\x -> mod n x == 0) [2..n-1]; (==) = (/=) in ps 22:48:27 <lambdabot> [2,3,5,7,11,13,17,19,23,29,31,37,41,43,47,53,59,61,67,71,73,79,83,89,97,101,... 22:48:55 -!- Bike has joined. 22:56:33 <boily> nooodl: helooooodl. 22:57:06 <boily> (I was watching some ethoslab.) 22:57:22 <oerjan> > [x | let x = mo; mo = 2] 22:57:23 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:57:24 <lambdabot> [2] 22:57:26 <oerjan> ha 22:57:45 -!- shikhout has joined. 22:57:48 <oerjan> so it could have been repaired after the mo` 22:59:18 <oerjan> is there anything that could have repaired it much later 23:00:39 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:04:33 * oerjan cannot think of anything 23:08:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39924&oldid=39923 * Javamannen * (+2125) 23:10:48 -!- mihow has joined. 23:11:14 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 23:20:55 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:41:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:43:09 -!- Froox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:43:20 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 23:43:21 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:44:11 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:47:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:49:03 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:54:45 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2014-06-25: 00:08:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39925&oldid=39924 * Javamannen * (+523) RE: A Question... 00:19:29 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:30:53 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:31:13 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 00:33:56 -!- redryder has joined. 00:40:35 -!- tswett has joined. 00:40:35 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 00:40:35 -!- tswett has joined. 01:22:05 -!- ^v has changed nick to SteamSale. 01:30:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BEDSHEET CHICKEN). 01:30:57 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:59:56 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:20:49 -!- realz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:34:46 -!- realz has joined. 03:38:40 -!- SteamSale has changed nick to v^. 03:38:51 -!- v^ has changed nick to ^v. 03:40:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:47:14 -!- conehead has joined. 03:52:29 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 04:03:29 -!- Guest76320 has joined. 04:17:16 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:29:20 -!- augur has joined. 04:47:32 -!- drlemon has joined. 05:01:25 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 05:03:40 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:06:53 -!- Quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:18:04 -!- quintopia has joined. 05:24:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:04:05 -!- Guest76320 has quit (Changing host). 06:04:05 -!- Guest76320 has joined. 06:04:13 -!- Guest76320 has changed nick to skarn. 06:08:40 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:41:35 -!- FreeFull has joined. 08:05:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39926&oldid=39925 * GreyKnight * (+1834) /* RE: A Question... */ keyboard modes 08:24:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39927&oldid=39926 * GreyKnight * (+861) /* RE: the opinions of GreyKnight */ 08:26:15 -!- tracksneo has joined. 08:42:20 -!- tracksneo has left ("Leaving"). 08:49:33 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:50:33 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:51:39 <Taneb> Heh, today's Girl Genius. "The engine that made the Konigsberg run in LESS then[sic] TWELVE KILOMETERS!" 08:54:14 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 08:56:09 <fizzie> I misread that "in" as "is", and thought that that meant the engine was less than twelve kilometers in size. 08:56:24 <fizzie> And made a thing called Konigsberg to run. 09:00:36 -!- redryder has quit. 09:08:57 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:09:19 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 09:12:11 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 09:16:33 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:21:03 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:23:26 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:24:45 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:26:59 <ion> http://www.clickhole.com/article/stick-butter-left-out-room-temperature-you-wont-be-368 09:29:17 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 09:31:11 -!- Taneb has changed nick to TANEB. 09:32:17 -!- TANEB has changed nick to Taneb. 09:34:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:35:22 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:05:46 * Melvar . o O (Skirting a black hole cluster …) 10:06:04 <Taneb> Melvar, what the hell is the context for that 10:07:51 <Melvar> The Girl Genius comic you mentioned. 10:08:34 <Taneb> Ah yes 10:08:47 <Taneb> I doubt that was what happened in the comic as they are talking about a train 10:09:04 <Taneb> But in the referenced work it was either that or the guy who said it was bullshitting 10:09:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:09:22 <fizzie> Well, perhaps the engine is powerful enough to go over a steeper mountain than other trains. 10:10:06 <fizzie> (The existence of rails to be handwaved in some other way.) 10:10:39 <Taneb> Today is my uni's CS department staff vs students cricket match 10:11:10 <fizzie> Will you be winning by ten degrees Kelvin? 10:11:26 <Taneb> I do not think so, I will not be playing 10:11:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:11:30 <Taneb> I may turn up and watch 10:13:01 <Melvar> If and only if you subscribe to the Expanded Universe, the Kessel Run in twelve parsecs is confirmed in a novel somewhere. It was, however, desperation and luck rather than a premeditated achievement. 10:14:52 <b_jonas> Lucky Starr has done the Kessell Run in twelve parsecs too in one of the novels 10:15:03 <Melvar> It’s mentioned elsewhere that the Maw (the black hole cluster) shouldn’t be able to exist, as black holes generally don’t form clusters without just merging. 10:15:51 <Melvar> Oh well, space opera. 10:18:55 <fizzie> And if you believe the script notes, Solo's "obviously lying". (I'm a bit worried about the "Parts of this article have been identified as no longer being up to date" template in the Wookieepedia article.) 10:18:59 <b_jonas> Melvar: and I think a star system like Lagash/Kalgash shouldn't be able to exist 10:21:43 <Melvar> b_jonas: I’m not familiar with that one. 10:22:50 <b_jonas> Melvar: Lagash is the planet with five suns in Asimov's short story (and novel) ''Nightfall'' 10:22:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 10:23:05 <b_jonas> or is it six suns? 10:23:07 <b_jonas> I can't follow 10:25:26 -!- boily has joined. 10:25:39 <b_jonas> six suns 10:45:52 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:46:13 -!- vifino has joined. 10:48:36 -!- metasepia has joined. 10:48:37 <boily> ~metar CYUL 10:48:38 <metasepia> CYUL 251030Z 02012KT 10SM -DZ FEW009 OVC011 19/18 A2988 RMK SF1SC8 SF TR SLP119 DENSITY ALT 600FT 10:48:46 <boily> bletch. 10:48:47 <fizzie> ~metar EFHK 10:48:48 <metasepia> EFHK 251020Z 33010KT 9999 SCT035 BKN062 13/05 Q1011 NOSIG 10:50:29 <fizzie> The famous -DZ Do'Urden. 10:52:32 <boily> the current weather indeed brings pictures of him, with everything being glauque. 10:53:02 <int-e> 19/18, high humidity? sounds unpleasant 10:53:44 <fizzie> It's been quite DZy here the last few days, but today seems drier. 10:53:54 <int-e> ~metar LOWI 10:53:55 <metasepia> LOWI 251020Z 24003KT 180V300 9999 FEW025 SCT120 20/12 Q1009 NOSIG 10:54:43 <int-e> (aka nice weather) 10:54:47 <boily> int-e: we had pockets of air during the solid rain last night. I fear the moment I'll have to go outside. 10:55:24 <b_jonas> yes, this wohle weather is very humid, it's been for two months now 10:58:16 <boily> b_jonas: hm. I don't happen to have a record of your approximate geographic coördinates from the The Question. where were you again? 10:58:49 <b_jonas> I'm in Budapest 10:59:43 <boily> ~metar LHBP 10:59:43 <metasepia> LHBP 251030Z VRB03KT 9999 SCT020 BKN200 20/14 Q1009 NOSIG 11:00:00 <b_jonas> what's nice but strange is that despite the warm winter we don't have too many mosquitos yet 11:07:59 <boily> they are biding their time, plotting, scheming in the dark and damp recesses of the city. they'll suddenly swarm together, a single legion of high-pitched buzzing hellbeasts bent on showing their ecological responsibility and not wasting a single drop of blood. 11:10:14 <int-e> Hitchcock, The 'Quitos 11:10:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CLOUDY CHICKEN). 11:10:43 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:12:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:12:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 11:12:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:19:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:26:42 -!- yorick has joined. 11:35:17 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:40:37 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:51:32 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:07:58 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:52:13 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:21:15 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 13:26:16 -!- mhi^ has joined. 13:32:16 -!- vifino has joined. 13:51:36 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:53:57 -!- drlemon has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:01:10 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:03:11 <fizzie> I like how all these conference invitations get Thunderbird's "this message may be a scam" warning. 14:10:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:22:11 -!- mihow has joined. 14:34:30 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 14:38:28 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 14:49:25 -!- tswett has joined. 14:49:25 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:49:25 -!- tswett has joined. 15:03:57 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:04:42 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:04:58 -!- nortti has joined. 15:04:58 -!- nortti has quit (Client Quit). 15:05:04 -!- nortti has joined. 15:08:43 -!- trout has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 15:09:39 -!- mihow has joined. 15:09:43 -!- variable has joined. 15:10:11 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:17:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:32:46 -!- TieSoul has joined. 15:57:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39928&oldid=39927 * Javamannen * (+765) RE: Colors 16:00:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39929&oldid=39928 * GreyKnight * (+161) /* RE: the opinions of GreyKnight */ 16:02:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:03:39 -!- augur has joined. 16:05:51 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 16:06:57 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:07:47 -!- subleq has joined. 16:34:35 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:19:49 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 17:40:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:42:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:43:42 -!- Bike has joined. 17:55:03 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 17:56:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:58:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:02:17 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:04:35 -!- lollo64it has joined. 18:08:11 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:27:51 -!- subleq has joined. 19:06:03 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:55:35 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:04:21 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:13:01 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:23:12 -!- conehead has joined. 20:32:42 -!- vifino_ has joined. 20:34:01 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:35:37 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:46:22 -!- HackEgo has joined. 21:01:04 -!- mhi^ has joined. 21:03:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:06:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 21:07:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:08:27 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:21:06 -!- mhi^ has joined. 21:27:00 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:36:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:47:29 -!- boily has joined. 21:48:12 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:50:06 * boily sweats profusely 21:50:12 <boily> ~metar CYUL 21:50:13 <metasepia> CYUL 252100Z 01012KT 15SM SCT030 BKN120 BKN240 23/17 A2991 RMK SC3AC2CI2 CU ASOCTD SLP128 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 21:50:27 <boily> and it's not even that humid. go figure. 21:51:16 -!- subleq has joined. 21:54:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:48 -!- augur has joined. 21:57:36 <int-e> 75% to 80%? 21:58:05 <int-e> ~metar LOWI 21:58:05 <metasepia> LOWI 252150Z AUTO 09003KT 050V120 9999 FEW020 BKN026 13/11 Q1015 21:58:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:58:50 <boily> int-e: 53%. 21:59:40 <boily> int-e: uhm, sorry. that is for CYQB. 21:59:55 <int-e> I see what I did wrong (still getting 65% but hey, it sounds bearable) 22:00:11 <int-e> ~metar CYQB 22:00:12 <metasepia> CYQB 252100Z 07008KT 30SM FEW035 SCT095 BKN250 22/12 A2995 RMK SC1AC2CI4 SLP141 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 22:00:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:00:32 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:00:55 -!- ^v has joined. 22:02:57 <boily> int-e: ah, finally got it. 68.9% here. 22:03:29 <boily> 87.6% on your end. 22:04:20 <int-e> Right, but 13 degrees quite cool, too cool for the humidity to matter much. 22:04:41 <int-e> (for people) 22:13:40 -!- tromp has joined. 22:14:39 <oerjan> <Taneb> Heh, today's Girl Genius. "The engine that made the Konigsberg run in LESS then[sic] TWELVE KILOMETERS!" <-- i think you mean monday's hth 22:14:57 * oerjan checks if wednesday's is finally up 22:15:18 <oerjan> nope 22:15:48 <Taneb> Oh 22:15:56 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH. thanks for reminding me that I'm hopelessly late with catching up on GG. 22:15:58 <oerjan> but it's a cute shout out, anyway 22:17:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:17:58 * oerjan wonders how far the corbettite monks' rail network goes. also, given that it's clearly sacred, if the schedule is actually unchangeable 22:18:31 <int-e> oh it's a 13km race. thanks for making me google. 22:19:11 <oerjan> wait, what is 22:20:45 <oerjan> int-e: i have no idea what you are googling, "konigsberg run" doesn't show up anything relevant 22:21:04 <oerjan> also, that's not the reference i got, anyway 22:21:53 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:22:16 <olsner> it's probably a run around konigsbergs 22:22:33 * oerjan tries changing to kaliningrad but it doesn't help 22:23:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:24:45 <int-e> oerjan: königsberglauf 22:25:23 <oerjan> silly german-only sites 22:26:04 <nortti> I originally interpreted that as engine making the city run 22:26:35 <oerjan> int-e: i am doubtful that the GG authors were thinking of that 22:27:25 <int-e> oerjan: granted, but it's a neat detail isn't it :) 22:28:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:28:30 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 22:30:13 -!- redryder has joined. 22:30:18 <int-e> . o O ( I hate it when LaTeX chokes on its .aux file. ) 22:30:24 <oerjan> int-e: also i take it that is not königsberg the city (which isn't even in germany any more) 22:31:47 <int-e> oerjan: right. the destination is a small mountain called Königsberg. (king's mountain) 22:32:14 <int-e> And I still find it funny because 13km is so close to 12km. 22:33:25 <oerjan> the 12 is of course straight from the original source 22:33:46 <boily> int-e: LaTeX can choke on its own aux? how is that possible? what kind of fungottian magic did you invoke? 22:33:46 <fungot> boily: budget issues make sarahbot sad?) that suddenly failed. :( 22:35:35 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 22:35:43 <int-e> [4~boily: sometimes an error in a latex document will cause it to produce a corrupt .aux file (which consists of tex code after all, and is read when the .tex file is processed). Subsequently fixing the error in the document will not help in that case. And it happens so infrequently that I'm surprised every time it happens. 22:37:12 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:38:11 <boily> I mustn't have typed enough LaTeX in my time, then, for it has never happened to me. (and yes, even with this chännel's courteous efforts to make my life miserable while compiling the PDF, no, never had I a corrupted .aux.) 22:39:53 -!- aretecode has joined. 22:46:29 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:47:53 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:50:54 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 22:56:34 <douglass> yeah, it's important to delete all the latex droppings if you have confusing errors 22:56:49 <douglass> same goes for the bibliography files 22:56:55 <douglass> if you have any 22:57:01 <int-e> I do 22:57:09 <int-e> but they weren't causing trouble *this time* 23:01:45 -!- ggherdov has joined. 23:07:40 <boily> speaking of errors, youtube just gave me an interesting one: «Une erreur s'est produite. Veuillez réessayer.» 23:10:12 <oerjan> is that ungrammatical or something 23:10:33 -!- augur has joined. 23:14:55 <boily> not at all. I just find its approximate and foggy vagueness to be strangely zen. 23:15:58 -!- mihow has joined. 23:16:03 <int-e> "an error has occurred, please retry"? 23:16:56 <boily> indeed. 23:17:25 <boily> but mind you, it's nicely worded. also, the CSS was just right. 23:18:55 <int-e> (ftr, I don't know french) 23:19:17 <oerjan> @djinn f :: Maybe (b -> Either a b) 23:19:17 <lambdabot> Cannot parse command 23:19:24 <oerjan> @djinn Maybe (b -> Either a b) 23:19:24 <lambdabot> f = Nothing 23:19:41 <oerjan> boring 23:24:41 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:24:59 -!- vifino_ has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 23:25:59 <boily> is a “b -> Either a b” function possible? shouldn't “a” be fixed to a single type, and not be a variable? 23:27:11 <Bike> @djinn b -> Either a b 23:27:11 <lambdabot> f = Right 23:27:26 <Bike> well that makes sense. 23:27:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:30:20 * boily is suddenly illuminated 23:31:09 <Taneb> Help one of my friends and I have done something very bad 23:31:28 <Bike> Felony or misdemeanor? 23:31:34 <Taneb> Not sure 23:31:39 <Taneb> Neither of us are US citizens 23:31:53 <boily> what is illegal, illicit or amoral? 23:31:58 <Taneb> Aaaanyway, you know how Facebook has a "Poke" feature? 23:32:00 <Bike> er, are those terms america-specific 23:32:02 <boily> s/what is/was it/ 23:32:51 <Bike> oh, it's not as important in the UK, ok. 23:33:42 <Taneb> Well, Facebook has a "Poke" feature that counts how many times two people have pressed the button that says "poke back" 23:33:49 <Taneb> Kind of like a lame co-op cookie clicker 23:33:56 <Taneb> Well, we've both scripted it 23:37:44 <boily> how many? 23:38:21 <Taneb> So far 206 23:38:43 <Bike> yeah, probably a felony. 23:41:23 <nooodl_> boily: it's like how an "[a]" value is possible, i guess ([]) 23:43:10 <Taneb> In other news, some of my friends are putting on a play! 23:43:31 <Taneb> And I kind of want to go to see it 23:43:40 <Taneb> But it is a long way away (on UK scales) 23:43:45 <Taneb> (not even that far actually) 23:46:32 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:46:58 <boily> nooodl_: thus the illumination, or enlightenment if you prefer. 23:53:31 <oerjan> yay GG now updated 23:53:53 <oerjan> well, partway. 23:55:16 <Taneb> :) 23:55:29 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:59:05 <int-e> > 1 23:59:06 <lambdabot> 1 23:59:25 <oerjan> and _there_ i'm back up to 3 shtethl-optimized tabs again. 23:59:44 <Bike> that's pretty shtethl 23:59:59 <oerjan> oops 2014-06-26: 00:00:02 <oerjan> *shtetl 00:01:15 <boily> ~duck shtetl 00:01:16 <metasepia> Shtetls were small towns with large Jewish population which existed in Central and Eastern Europe before the Holocaust. Shtetls were mainly found in the areas which constituted the 19th century Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire, the Congress Kingdom of Poland, Galicia and Romania. In Yiddish, a larger city, like Lemberg or Czernowitz, was called a shtot; a village was called a dorf. 00:02:34 <Bike> morbid. 00:03:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:06:45 -!- subleq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:08:58 <Phantom_Hoover> gives a new meaning to dorf fortress 00:09:01 <oerjan> let's just say scott aaronson isn't trying to hide his jewishness 'kay? 00:23:52 <int-e> there we go, no GG comic 00:24:01 <int-e> partially colored, tsk 00:24:37 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 00:31:14 <int-e> uhm. s/no/new/. 00:32:26 <oerjan> there you see it, new you don't. 00:32:29 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 01:02:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ENDLESS CHICKEN). 01:02:27 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:02:57 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 01:10:07 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 01:12:08 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:13:24 -!- mihow has joined. 01:19:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:20:01 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 01:23:26 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 01:24:22 -!- lambdabot has joined. 01:24:47 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:27:37 -!- dennis714 has joined. 01:29:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:08:01 -!- dennis714 has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 02:28:04 -!- augur has joined. 02:32:35 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:32:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:11 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:43:41 -!- aretecode has joined. 02:57:11 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:05:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:05:45 -!- glogbot has joined. 03:05:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:05:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 03:05:56 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 03:06:02 -!- shachaf has joined. 03:06:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39930&oldid=39859 * 24.44.25.193 * (+14) /* T */ 03:08:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tuplary]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39931 * 24.44.25.193 * (+235) Created page with "The '''tuplary''' programming language was created by Daniel Borowski. The language is composed entirely of brackets and runs in the browser by compiling into JavaScript. Docu..." 03:10:08 -!- augur has joined. 03:11:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tuplary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39932&oldid=39931 * 24.44.25.193 * (+307) 03:12:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tuplary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39933&oldid=39932 * 24.44.25.193 * (-9) /* EXAMPLE FIBONACCI PROGRAM */ 03:12:21 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:13:44 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 03:13:44 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:14:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tuplary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39934&oldid=39933 * 24.44.25.193 * (+200) /* Example Fibonacci Program */ 03:16:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tuplary]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39935&oldid=39934 * 24.44.25.193 * (+63) 03:34:01 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:54:26 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:55:16 -!- BeingToDeath has quit. 03:56:29 -!- ^v has joined. 04:53:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:03:45 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:27:19 -!- augur has joined. 05:38:09 -!- ais523_ has joined. 05:56:51 -!- augur_ has joined. 06:00:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:04:45 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:14:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:40:46 -!- redryder has quit. 06:49:04 -!- redryder has joined. 07:31:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:40:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 07:52:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:26:14 -!- idris-bot has joined. 08:36:47 <Melvar> ( the (List _|_) [] 08:36:51 <idris-bot> [] : List _|_ 09:04:35 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:06:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39936 * GermanyBoy * (+9082) Created page with "'''SYCPOL''' ('''Sy'''stem '''c'''ard '''p'''r'''o'''gramming '''l'''anguage, pronounced /'sɪkpɔl/) is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User:GermanyBoy]] in..." 09:09:04 -!- ejls has quit (Quit: -1). 09:09:48 -!- ejls has joined. 09:14:48 <FireFly> ~metar ESSA 09:14:53 <FireFly> oh 09:14:56 <FireFly> noily 09:28:18 -!- vifino has joined. 09:31:11 -!- vifino has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:31:32 -!- vifino has joined. 09:36:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:GermanyBoy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39937&oldid=39790 * GermanyBoy * (+67) Added SYCPOL 09:37:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39938&oldid=39930 * GermanyBoy * (+13) /* S */ SYCPOL 09:39:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:44:04 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 09:47:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:48:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:01:53 -!- Froox has joined. 10:02:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:02:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 10:03:03 -!- redryder has quit. 10:05:43 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:22:31 -!- boily has joined. 10:26:43 -!- MDude has joined. 11:10:52 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PLURALIST CHICKEN). 11:29:36 <Phantom_Hoover> http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/ so this is a pretty fun read 11:44:24 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, wow 11:44:40 <Phantom_Hoover> it's all very cyberpunk 11:46:46 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:48:47 <fizzie> The future of money. 11:53:49 -!- yorick has joined. 11:56:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:57:52 -!- trout has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 11:59:24 -!- variable has joined. 12:24:19 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:30:59 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:31:14 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:57:47 -!- augur has joined. 13:23:45 -!- tswett has joined. 13:23:45 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 13:23:45 -!- tswett has joined. 13:31:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:34:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Slide]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39939&oldid=39922 * 107.5.152.253 * (+483) 13:51:59 <fizzie> Sometimes I wonder about LaTeX newcommand and renewcommand. 13:53:26 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 13:53:57 <fizzie> (For \newcommand, it is an error if the command is already defined; for \renewcommand, it is an error if the command is *not*.) 13:55:47 <int-e> fizzie: it avoids training people to just use 'renewcommand' all the time. 13:56:25 <fizzie> I guess that's reasonable. But I've occasionally wanted a "just define it no matter what", like the TeX \def. 13:56:35 <fizzie> (There's a \defcommand like that in the moredefs package.) 14:01:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39940&oldid=39936 * GermanyBoy * (+2361) lists and structures 14:03:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39941&oldid=39940 * GermanyBoy * (-1) /* LAYOUT DIVISION */ 14:05:27 <fizzie> I just exported a BibTeX citation from an ACM journal, and it says issue_date = {January 2008}, year = {2007}, month = jan, which seems somewhat inconsistent. 14:06:10 <fizzie> The ACM index page itself says "2007 Article" "Volume 1 Issue 3, January 2008". 14:06:20 <fizzie> I guess it could be the submission year, but that seems weird for a citation. 14:07:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39942&oldid=39941 * GermanyBoy * (+130) Reading from a list 14:08:28 <fizzie> And the PDF says "Vol. 1, No. 3 (2007)". 14:09:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39943&oldid=39942 * GermanyBoy * (-88) /* The structure of the program */ Removed the limit until I invent a better one 14:27:09 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 14:45:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:GermanyBoy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39944&oldid=39937 * GermanyBoy * (+524) 15:15:04 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:16:21 -!- irene1 has joined. 15:21:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:23:37 -!- irene1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:25:28 -!- irene1 has joined. 15:29:13 -!- irene1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:32:10 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 15:38:38 -!- Bike has joined. 15:42:17 -!- mihow has joined. 16:10:56 -!- redryder has joined. 16:24:51 -!- conehead has joined. 16:48:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:19:45 -!- augur has joined. 17:21:29 -!- augur_ has joined. 17:21:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:40:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:43:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:48:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:49:15 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:13:36 <impomatic_> Has anyone got / ever had a Camputers Lynx? I've just been playing with one and it's Basic is depressingly slow. 18:14:12 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: brb). 18:14:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:16:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 18:16:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:20:35 -!- mhi^ has joined. 18:26:39 <FreeFull> impomatic_: How does it compare to the ZX Spectrum in terms of speed? 18:38:19 <impomatic_> FreeFull, I need to run a proper test. But printing HELLO all over the screen took about 15 seconds. 18:38:36 <impomatic_> Apparently it's fast at math, but slow at displaying text / graphics. 18:38:48 <impomatic_> I'll try a prime sieve later. 18:42:57 <FreeFull> 15 seconds is horrible 18:44:30 <mroman> TIs have the same problem ;) 18:44:43 <mroman> If your TI Basic Programs have DISPLAY in it it's horribly slower 18:45:20 <FreeFull> A c64 only takes about 2 seconds 18:45:52 -!- redryder has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:52 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:53 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:55 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:55 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:57 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:57 -!- MDude has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:57 -!- AnotherTest has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:58 -!- TieSoul has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:58 -!- hubs has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:59 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 18:45:59 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 18:46:01 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 18:46:02 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 18:46:02 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 18:46:02 -!- _46bit has quit (*.net *.split). 18:46:02 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 18:46:48 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:46:48 -!- redryder has joined. 18:46:48 -!- tswett has joined. 18:46:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:46:48 -!- variable has joined. 18:46:48 -!- MDude has joined. 18:46:48 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:46:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:46:48 -!- TieSoul has joined. 18:46:48 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 18:46:48 -!- hubs has joined. 18:46:48 -!- TodPunk has joined. 18:46:48 -!- EgoBot has joined. 18:46:48 -!- Gregor has joined. 18:46:48 -!- myname has joined. 18:46:48 -!- _46bit has joined. 18:46:48 -!- mtve has joined. 18:46:48 -!- clog has joined. 18:46:48 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:46:48 -!- newsham has joined. 18:47:31 -!- variable has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 18:48:15 -!- douglass has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:16 -!- jix_ has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:16 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:16 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:16 -!- maurer has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:17 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:17 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 18:48:22 -!- jix has joined. 18:48:24 -!- maurer has joined. 18:48:24 -!- int-e has joined. 18:48:24 -!- ineiros has joined. 18:48:27 -!- elliott has joined. 18:48:29 -!- douglass has joined. 18:48:34 -!- diginet has joined. 18:50:56 -!- variable has joined. 18:54:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:54:42 -!- Gregor`` has joined. 18:56:56 -!- redryder has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:56 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:57 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 18:56:59 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 18:59:20 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:59:35 -!- TodPunk has joined. 19:09:46 -!- TieSoul has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:10:09 -!- TieSoul has joined. 19:17:07 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 19:19:07 -!- redryder has joined. 19:19:07 -!- tswett has joined. 19:19:07 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 19:29:52 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal http://goo.gl/nCLlMK you probably recognize the place 19:29:52 <lambdabot> Consider it noted. 19:29:54 <fizzie> (Got tired waiting for the planets to align w.r.t. his quite rare visits.) 19:30:00 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:30:23 <fizzie> TI Basic is not fast in math either. 19:31:43 <fizzie> It only does arithmetics in TI-real numbers, which are these honking 10-byte base-10 BCD-mantissa floats. 19:32:00 <fizzie> Plus I have it on good authority that them ROM routines for arithmetic on those are not good either. 19:32:37 <fizzie> (Disclaimer: the above is correct for TI-86; don't know about other models.) 19:33:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:35:41 -!- fowl has joined. 19:37:59 -!- mihow has joined. 19:40:03 -!- redryder has quit. 19:53:04 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:56:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:17:04 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 20:18:31 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:18:48 -!- ^v has joined. 20:19:59 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 20:26:13 -!- vifino has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:32:51 -!- vifino has joined. 20:33:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Shrek's mum * New user account 20:55:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MrDetonia * New user account 21:00:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:02:26 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:36:35 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 21:51:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:59:14 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:00:40 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 22:05:44 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:07:29 -!- mhi^ has joined. 22:08:53 -!- redryder has joined. 22:09:49 -!- boily has joined. 22:09:58 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:30:29 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:30:36 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:33:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:40:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:40:33 <nortti> I had this idea for "esoteric GC", more time since you last touched an object the higher it goes in the deletion order 22:41:14 <nortti> so that if you want to keep your data you need to "poke" it regularly 22:42:00 <boily> poke it with what? 22:42:36 <nortti> a stick, duh 22:42:40 <Bicyclidine> nortti: uh, a generational GC? 22:42:42 * oerjan points at the mapole 22:43:23 <nortti> Bicyclidine: no, I mean that whether it has a reference or not is irrelevant, it will be deleted if it wasn't touched in X time 22:43:33 <Bicyclidine> Oh. 22:43:34 <nortti> *is referenced 22:43:37 <boily> oerjan: indeed. 22:43:50 * oerjan has an apple, and shall now bite to test whether it's appealing or appalling. 22:44:16 <oerjan> looks good so far 22:45:15 <nortti> what is mapole? 22:45:52 <oerjan> `? mapole 22:45:53 <HackEgo> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. 22:46:27 <nortti> ic séo 22:47:02 <oerjan> ~duck mapole 22:47:02 <metasepia> --- No relevant information 22:47:05 <boily> ic séo? 22:47:16 <oerjan> wisdom 1, duck 0 22:47:43 <nortti> boily: old english for "I see" 22:47:59 <nortti> well, the accent should be macron but my keyb is kinda limited atm 22:48:36 <boily> ǣh :D 23:09:33 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:24 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:11:53 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:12:17 -!- yorick has joined. 23:13:59 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:17:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:22:46 <oerjan> ~metar ENGM 23:22:47 <metasepia> ENGM 262250Z 00000KT 9999 -RA SCT004 BKN039 10/09 Q1015 23:23:16 <Sgeo> Enigma is at 1.20 23:23:21 <Sgeo> Which apparently has an API change 23:24:03 <fowl> what is that metar stuff 23:24:22 <boily> fowl: it's weather! it's happening now! it involves AIRPLAAAAAAAAAANES! 23:24:36 <Sgeo> METAsepia meteRology 23:25:03 <boily> ~metar KSTL 23:25:04 <metasepia> KSTL 262151Z 10010KT 10SM FEW065 SCT140 BKN250 31/20 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP123 T03060200 $ 23:26:26 <boily> fowl: so you see, it is somewhat windy, ground visibility 10 miles, a few clouds at 6500', scattered clouds at 14,000', broken clouds at 25,000', it's 31 °C, dew point at 20 °C, sea level pressure 1012.3 hPa. 23:26:48 <Sgeo> Eww it ships with some song that isn't Pentagonal Dreams 23:26:54 <boily> (the rest is US-specific coded stuff (A and T groups), and the “ 23:27:03 <boily> $” at the end means your station neads maintenance.) 23:27:21 <boily> Sgeo: what's enigma? 23:27:41 <Sgeo> http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/ 23:27:53 <Sgeo> Great game. ais523 is involved somehow 23:28:11 <boily> ah! that enigma! 23:28:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:34:42 <fowl> what do you need all that info 23:34:49 <fowl> are you guys pilots 23:36:01 <boily> uhm. well. it's.. you know, like, people don't think it is like it is, but it do. 23:36:21 <boily> (please! someone! I'm kinda stuck here!) 23:38:40 -!- MDude has joined. 23:39:45 * boily sighs... 23:40:35 * boily fetches a tub of ice cream and drowns his spoon like his sorrows in dairy product 23:42:03 -!- MSusw has joined. 23:42:43 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:42:45 -!- MSusw has changed nick to MDude. 23:48:26 <oerjan> boily: i don't recommend drowning the whole spoon hth 23:51:11 <boily> of course I don't drown the whole spoon, because it'd mean my hand would be in ice cream, and ice cream is cold. 23:51:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:51:26 <oerjan> good, good 23:57:47 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:58:26 <quintopia> ahoily' 23:58:50 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 2014-06-27: 00:05:49 <boily> quinthellopia! 00:06:01 <quintopia> they don't like my joke in ##math 00:11:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:12:18 <boily> how come? 00:13:13 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:14:44 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:16:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:18:43 <quintopia> because they are lame and can't apprreciate a good old-fashioned terrible pub 00:18:46 <quintopia> *pun 00:19:10 <boily> but, but... what is math for if not for incredebly lame puns? 00:19:48 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:20:16 <quintopia> i guess to torture countless grade school students until they hate playing with abstract concepts and think math is boring 00:21:50 <quintopia> how are teeth? 00:23:27 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAH! 00:23:48 <boily> I missed a call from my dentist today, tried to call them back but they didn't answer! 00:24:01 <oerjan> truly, a catastrophe 00:24:02 <boily> and now I need to remember to call them again tomorrow! 00:24:20 <boily> oerjan: yes! it is important! it is tragic! it involves a bite splint! 00:24:28 <tswett> If only there were a way to record information without having to memorize it. 00:24:41 <oerjan> tswett: i no right 00:24:52 <boily> I don't know of any! it's too complex! LOGIC! AAAAAAAAAAAH! 00:24:56 <oerjan> wait *rite 00:25:25 <oerjan> my mom was a great believer in lists 00:25:49 <quintopia> i believe in trello 00:28:27 <quintopia> boily: done anything cool lately? tried any new recipes? 00:29:16 <boily> I got a batch of tasty pulled pork from my uncle last weekend, so I've been using it in just about everything I eat lately. 00:29:44 <boily> I made some killer pork/veggies tuesday night, with some rice. 00:30:33 <boily> as for actual achievements... I'm still biking, and pushing myself higher each time :D 00:30:54 <boily> (damned hills! some day, I will vanquish you all!) 00:34:54 <quintopia> sounds noteworthy 00:35:04 <quintopia> i haven't biked in an age or two 00:36:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:36:04 <douglass> I am not that impressed with trello. It's all right I guess. 00:37:35 -!- Bike has joined. 00:37:52 -!- _46bit has left. 00:38:41 <boily> ~duck trello 00:38:41 <metasepia> Trello is a free web-based project management application made by Fog Creek Software. 00:39:18 <boily> meh. I'm sold to redmine myself. 00:39:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:54:58 <quintopia> bye boily 00:55:53 <boily> byintopia! 00:56:14 <boily> time for some printed weirdness... 00:56:23 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TESSERACT CHICKEN). 00:56:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:10:36 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 01:10:41 <oerjan> the chicken from another dimension 01:13:21 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:22:50 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:31:46 -!- shachaf has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:04:46 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:05:08 -!- shachaf has quit (Client Quit). 02:32:49 -!- ^v has changed nick to Doge7676. 02:34:27 -!- shachaf has joined. 02:35:07 -!- Doge7676 has changed nick to v^. 02:35:17 -!- v^ has changed nick to ^v. 02:36:21 -!- shachaf has left. 02:55:33 -!- shachaf has joined. 03:00:28 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 03:03:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Xihcute]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39945&oldid=39916 * Oerjan * (+13) spelling and links 03:06:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Randwork]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39946&oldid=39905 * Oerjan * (+52) unsigned 03:10:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39947&oldid=39929 * Oerjan * (+51) unsigned 03:28:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Slide]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39948&oldid=39939 * Oerjan * (+185) trivium of four 03:28:30 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 03:29:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Slide]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39949&oldid=39948 * Oerjan * (+5) vanquish ambiguity 03:31:02 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:35:24 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:48:01 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:49:24 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:44:34 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 04:45:28 -!- ^v has changed nick to HBO. 04:45:39 -!- HBO has changed nick to ^v. 04:53:27 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:03:44 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:05:06 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:37:42 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 05:40:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Sweat drums). 05:45:33 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:46:29 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 05:55:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:14:38 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:22:58 -!- idris-bot has joined. 06:49:39 -!- organgbb has joined. 06:51:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:52:24 -!- organgbb has left. 06:58:19 -!- redryder has quit. 07:41:02 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:15:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:16:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 08:37:16 -!- password2_ has joined. 08:38:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:48:49 -!- password2_ has changed nick to password2. 09:05:15 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:18:19 -!- password2 has joined. 09:22:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:26:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39950&oldid=38767 * Jfb * (+4) /* Functions */ 09:27:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:31:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39951&oldid=39950 * Jfb * (-1) /* Functions */ 09:37:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39952&oldid=39951 * Jfb * (-2) /* Computational class */ 09:37:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[~-~!]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39953&oldid=39952 * Jfb * (+2) /* Computational class */ 09:44:48 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:44:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:46:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39954&oldid=39920 * Javamannen * (+411) The need for speed? 09:48:12 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:51:53 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:52:45 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 09:52:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:57:51 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 10:02:59 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 10:13:37 -!- variable has joined. 10:19:38 -!- boily has joined. 11:02:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Slide]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39955&oldid=39893 * GreyKnight * (+35) syntax changes discussed earlier, specify exactly how the halt state works 11:10:05 -!- yorick has joined. 11:10:34 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HEXPROOF CHICKEN). 11:35:59 -!- variable has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 11:37:13 -!- variable has joined. 11:42:36 <b_jonas> some of these esolangs are dumb. but it's worth staying for the rest. 11:44:33 <impomatic_> Underload, FALSE and Mouse are pretty good... 11:52:34 -!- vifino has joined. 12:04:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:13:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:14:13 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 12:34:00 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:52:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:59:16 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:00:18 -!- TieSoul has joined. 14:16:57 <b_jonas> will http://icfpcontest.org/ not have any teasers this year, or is it just too early? 14:17:16 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 14:23:46 -!- vifino has joined. 14:27:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ByteMover]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39956&oldid=20178 * Javamannen * (-1038) Keep it simple stupid! 14:34:32 -!- password2 has joined. 14:44:48 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:45:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39957&oldid=39954 * Javamannen * (-197) Preliminary VM specs 15:00:11 -!- tswett has joined. 15:00:11 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 15:00:11 -!- tswett has joined. 15:02:22 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 15:05:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:08:23 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:08:45 -!- password2 has joined. 15:09:21 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 15:12:43 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 15:16:27 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 15:23:28 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:25:39 -!- password2 has joined. 15:34:49 -!- mihow has joined. 15:46:31 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:03:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:07:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:10:48 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 16:56:24 -!- drlemon_ has joined. 16:56:58 -!- drlemon_ has changed nick to drlemon. 17:29:49 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 17:39:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:47:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:55:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:03:33 -!- vifino has joined. 18:06:48 -!- mihow has joined. 18:31:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:35:29 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:27 -!- ejls has quit (Quit: update). 18:45:21 -!- redryder has joined. 18:56:02 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:03:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:10:59 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 19:11:49 -!- ^v has joined. 19:11:50 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:12:17 -!- ^v has joined. 19:12:18 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:32:35 -!- yorick has joined. 19:32:42 -!- HackEgo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:34:17 -!- HackEgo has joined. 19:38:45 -!- mhi^ has joined. 19:40:28 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 19:42:17 <impomatic_> eBay just sent me a 75 voucher code to apologise that I had to change my password! 19:42:23 <impomatic_> No catch. 75 to spend on eBay on anything I like :-) 19:42:28 <impomatic_> It's probably worth checking your spam folder (or promotions folder on gmail)... 19:42:33 <Taneb> Buy a hat 19:42:41 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 19:43:12 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:12 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:12 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:14 -!- barrucadu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:22 <impomatic_> Some kind of steampunk top hat? 19:43:32 <Taneb> No 19:43:35 <Taneb> Just a hat 19:43:40 -!- barrucadu has joined. 19:44:02 <impomatic_> A santa hat? 19:44:08 <Taneb> No 19:44:10 <Taneb> Just a hat 19:44:34 <impomatic_> I think I'll just buy some stuff that I've been after for a while, but the price has always been too high :-) 19:44:45 <impomatic_> There's some retro computer bits I'd like 19:45:23 <Taneb> Buy a SATA cable 19:46:00 <impomatic_> Is that what you'd buy? A hat and a SATA cable? 19:46:15 <Taneb> yes 19:55:40 -!- ggherdov has joined. 19:56:48 <fizzie> I changed my password when they had that password reset "thing" back then, and nobody gave me free money for it. 19:56:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:56:53 <nortti> https://github.com/shinh/sedlisp/ 19:57:57 <impomatic_> fizzie: I don't understand. Compensation for having to change your password sounds a bit crazy to me! 19:58:27 <fizzie> impomatic_: Yeah, but there's an official-eBay-person-marked reply about it at http://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/eBay-Password-Change-Discussion/ive-got-a-75-pound-off-voucher-form-ebay-for-the-trouble-with/m-p/3333293 19:58:47 -!- Bike has joined. 20:00:42 <fizzie> It seems like a really strange thing to pay random amounts of money to random people, given that they asked everyone to do the password reset. 20:01:58 <impomatic_> I'm not random, I'm chosen! 20:02:06 <fizzie> I guess you are a "valued customer". 20:03:03 <impomatic_> Seems strange. I assume there's some logic to it. Would've been better to give everyone the save, 5 or something (or even just save 5 when you spend 20). 20:05:17 <impomatic_> Giving a few people 75 will just annoy everyone else... 20:07:10 -!- ^v has joined. 20:16:14 -!- ejls has joined. 20:21:15 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 20:21:15 -!- ggherdov has joined. 20:40:45 -!- shikhin has joined. 20:47:37 -!- jj2baile has joined. 20:52:30 -!- jj2baile_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:54:17 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:59:45 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:49 -!- ^v has joined. 21:05:50 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:06:17 -!- ^v has joined. 21:08:37 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 21:09:29 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 21:09:37 -!- vifino has joined. 21:10:55 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 21:11:56 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:12:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:12:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:21:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:23:08 -!- MSusw has joined. 21:23:19 -!- Bike has joined. 21:24:24 -!- clog_ has joined. 21:26:15 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas. 21:26:28 -!- newsham_ has joined. 21:31:44 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 21:31:44 -!- idris-bot has quit (*.net *.split). 21:31:45 -!- MDude has quit (*.net *.split). 21:31:46 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 21:31:46 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 21:31:46 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 21:31:47 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 21:41:48 -!- HackEgo has joined. 21:44:37 -!- ^v has joined. 21:47:44 <olsner> hmm, someone said something to me past the scrollback 21:59:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:08:04 -!- boily has joined. 22:11:06 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 22:11:18 -!- HackEgo has joined. 22:11:56 <nortti> olsner: could it have been 17:45 < HackEgo> 800) <olsner> it's not completely obvious since the displayed nick lengths are rounded to the closest integer 22:12:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:12:30 -!- hexagonest has joined. 22:12:34 <hexagonest> Hi 22:12:44 <hexagonest> I would like to know how to create an esoteric language? 22:13:30 <boily> helloxagonest! 22:13:55 <boily> have you visited the wiki? did you find any esolang that strike your fancy? 22:13:58 <impomatic_> Hexagonello :-) 22:14:18 <nortti> `relcome hexagonest 22:14:19 <HackEgo> ​hexagonest: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:15:04 <hexagonest> haha hello weveryone 22:15:35 <hexagonest> not really but i do have a good idea where it's basically only words 22:16:03 <impomatic_> Write a spec, then add it to the wiki. 22:16:33 <hexagonest> a spec? 22:21:24 -!- hexagonest has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:22:40 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:07 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:23:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:25:24 <olsner> nortti: could be 22:26:18 -!- shikhout has joined. 22:26:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:29:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:30:00 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:32:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:35:12 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:52:24 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:57:31 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:07:37 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:08:20 <oerjan> `unidecode � 23:08:37 <oerjan> of _course_ it'd be gone. 23:09:05 * oerjan peeks wishfully at fizzie 23:09:07 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:09:57 <oerjan> i'd peek at Gregor`` if i thought it helped. 23:10:36 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:19:39 <zzo38> Can some kinds of one-dimensional convolution filters be optimized? I would think so, for example if the convolution function is a nonzero value for a certain range and zero everywhere else, you can add, buffer, and subtract it back out whatever is at the other end of the buffer, I think. But if it is exponential function then you can just decay previous value by half and add the input value. 23:22:09 <Bike> doesn't "convolution filters" cover everything linear? i imagine you can do plenty there... 23:26:42 -!- mihow has joined. 23:29:10 -!- mtve has joined. 23:41:57 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:49:18 -!- copumpkin has joined. 23:54:02 -!- idris-bot has joined. 2014-06-28: 00:05:27 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 00:06:19 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:10:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: LOBSTER CHICKEN). 00:17:14 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 00:24:53 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 00:38:43 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:46:49 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:48:57 -!- Bike has joined. 00:53:31 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:57:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:59:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:07:14 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 01:10:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:13:54 -!- FreeFull has quit. 01:15:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:59:17 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 02:17:55 -!- BeingToDeath has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:32:56 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 02:59:37 <zzo38> Do you like AmigaMML, or do you hate it, or not? 03:03:23 <tswett> Bike: I think that e.g. pointwise multiplication is a linear filter that isn't a convolution filter. 03:03:48 <Bike> linear time invariant, then? 03:04:06 <tswett> Yeah, I think every non-pathological linear time-invariant filter would have to be a convolution filter. 03:04:18 <tswett> If you apply it to the Dirac delta function, that tells you the kernel. 03:04:50 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_system_theory#Overview right, ok. 03:05:02 * Bike has been attempting to learn this stuff, but from a book instead of a class, so 03:06:05 <Bike> convolution is basically like how generalized functions work, isn't it. huh 03:08:42 <tswett> Is it? 03:09:27 <tswett> Aren't generalized functions the dual of the vector space of smooth functions with bounded support, or something? 03:11:23 <tswett> Such that the dot product of a SFBS and a generalized function is effectively the integral of a pointwise product? 03:11:33 <Bike> yeah but you get that by defining the inner product as the integral of the product of bla bla bla 03:12:02 <Bike> and then you say every linear operator is an inner product with some fixed thingie, but the fixed thingie might be something like dirac 03:12:36 <Bike> something something. 03:13:05 <Bike> i'm just glad to know there's some version of generalized functions that isn't a ridiculous hack. learning math from engineering texts is worrying, worrying 03:13:32 <tswett> Where'd you get your definition of a generalized function? 03:14:12 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:14:58 <Bike> kolmogorov's intro to real analysis (not the engineering book) 03:16:26 <tswett> ATWP, "The vector space D′(U) is the continuous dual space of D(U) equipped with the weak-* topology". 03:16:35 <Bike> "atwp" is unknown to me 03:16:42 <tswett> According to Wikipedia. 03:16:53 <oerjan> `? atwp 03:16:58 <Bike> well, your definition probably subsumes my understanding 03:16:58 <oerjan> argh 03:17:08 <Bike> i just like having things be concrete in some fashion 03:17:50 <Bike> the section on the weak topology is right before this, i just haven't absorbed the whole thing 03:18:00 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:26:54 -!- ^v has joined. 03:41:31 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 03:45:11 -!- BeingToDeath has quit. 04:07:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:25:19 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:55:25 -!- lollo64it has joined. 04:57:23 <zzo38> Now I am adding many new feature into AmigaMML, such as: auto-portamento, increased maximum length of sample data (including for use with PADsynth), Karplus-Strong, a few bug-fix, and an alternative way to calculate beats-per-minute. 05:01:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:13:29 -!- mihow has joined. 05:23:37 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 05:49:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:05:52 -!- redryder has quit. 06:08:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:09:16 <Sgeo> When Rust stabilizes, is it likely to at least catch up to Go in terms of library support? 06:10:20 <MSusw> When Rust stabalises it'll be a survival video game. 06:10:22 -!- MSusw has changed nick to MDream. 06:11:05 <quintopia> stop stealing that joke. 06:11:14 <Sgeo> Should I try that game? 06:11:35 <quintopia> only if you want to 06:11:54 <quintopia> it's on my wishlist for the day when it gets more complete and cheaper 06:12:30 <Sgeo> This does not give me confidence in the Go ecosystem: http://technosophos.com/2014/06/27/saved-by-the-bug.html 06:18:05 <zzo38> What would be the operation of each rule of linear logic in a system similar to the Gentzen esolang system I have made up? 06:24:15 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:35:22 <zzo38> An idea for a variant of poker game is that you play with spread-limit before the flop and you play with pot-limit after. Would it work? 07:00:10 -!- password2 has joined. 07:25:25 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:54:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:56:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:59:14 -!- augur has joined. 08:16:06 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:28:21 <shachaf> oerjan: happy oerjan++ 08:34:52 -!- ket1v has joined. 08:40:49 <Taneb> shachaf, is it oerjanday? 08:44:38 -!- ket1v has quit. 08:45:11 <Taneb> Sgeo, I don't know much about Go at all 08:45:16 <Taneb> What is its library support like? 08:45:47 <shachaf> Taneb: not sure 09:06:58 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:23:51 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:36:15 -!- aloril has joined. 09:39:59 -!- augur_ has joined. 09:43:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:26:40 -!- shikhout has joined. 10:29:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:29:58 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 10:46:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:51:18 -!- yorick has joined. 11:16:25 -!- Aetherspawn- has joined. 11:40:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:56:04 <TieSoul> Well, I've added fingerprint support to my Funge-98 interpreter :P 12:15:13 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:19:41 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:20:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:20:18 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 12:20:18 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:22:29 -!- boily has joined. 12:30:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: VACUUM CHICKEN). 13:00:12 -!- vifino has joined. 13:16:06 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 13:21:00 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:59:39 -!- boily has joined. 14:20:43 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:22:45 <myname> what's a good data structure to use in haskell to store a 2d grid on which i want to make only reads after generation? 14:24:24 <myname> to be even more specific: i only want to access fields around the last selected field. don't know if that matters 14:32:08 <int-e> use an array? 14:34:19 <myname> okay, have to take a look, never used arrays in haskell :D 14:34:37 -!- Aetherspawn- has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 14:45:04 -!- redryder has joined. 14:49:32 -!- ^0 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:50:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: RELAPSED CHICKEN). 15:02:09 -!- ^0 has joined. 15:02:18 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:02:56 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 15:10:34 <myname> what 15:24:14 <fizzie> `olist (956) 15:24:29 <fizzie> What. 15:24:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:26:14 -!- HackEgo has joined. 15:26:17 <fizzie> `olist (956) 15:26:18 <HackEgo> olist (956): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 15:41:03 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:41:21 -!- ^v has joined. 15:58:28 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:09:18 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:11:29 -!- HackEgo has joined. 16:14:33 -!- augur has joined. 16:17:19 -!- HackEgo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:26:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:29:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:54:42 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 17:29:53 <FireFly> HackEgo seems to be dead again 17:33:01 <shachaf> fizzie: Thanks! 17:40:28 <olsner> fungot is also dead :/ 17:42:08 <fizzie> Oh. 17:42:12 <fizzie> Things are a bad. 17:42:34 -!- HackEgo has joined. 17:42:40 <int-e> . o O ( should I evacuate lambdabot from the channel, just to be safe? ) 17:43:01 <int-e> (unfortunate timing) 17:43:03 -!- fungot has joined. 17:44:28 <fizzie> I don't know what's up with HackEgo not rejoining the channel these days. There's a thing that's supposed to do it if it dies. Though it has hardwired 10-second sleep before it sends the JOIN, so maybe there's some new (identd-related?) timeout thing or something. 17:46:10 <olsner> are you running hackego now? 17:47:48 <fizzie> No, I just have administrative suppositories, I mean, powers, on the server it runs on, since it's the same box that serves the wiki. 17:47:58 <fizzie> So I've been doing these small fixups as a public service. 17:48:24 <olsner> ah, very good 17:57:32 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:57:36 <int-e> fizzie: does it actually die though? 17:58:57 <fizzie> int-e: I haven't looked. But it should if the TCP connection to the server closes. 17:59:32 <int-e> fizzie: when I took over, lambdabot would occasionally end up with a one-sided tcp connection, waiting for messages from the IRC server which would never arrive. I solved this by having it send PINGs to detect this scenario. 17:59:56 <fizzie> Well, it wouldn't have come back to IRC if it were waiting on that. 18:00:06 <fizzie> And I think multibot maybe does send pings. 18:00:16 <fizzie> I don't know too much about the thing, since it's not my thing. 18:00:57 <fizzie> It runs inside a while true; do socat TCP4:irc.freenode.net:6667 EXEC:'./multibot ...' &; sleep 10; echo 'JOIN ...' | socat ...; wait; done kinda thing. 18:00:58 <int-e> It's just an idea, because it took me a while to figure that one out. 18:01:03 <fizzie> Anyway, time for a sauna. -> 18:23:41 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:27:04 -!- jix has joined. 18:40:17 -!- vifino has joined. 18:59:26 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 18:59:49 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:00:40 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:07:07 -!- boily has joined. 19:08:15 -!- metasepia has joined. 19:08:34 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:14:29 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 19:16:15 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 19:29:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:30:01 -!- shikhin has changed nick to trees. 19:30:32 -!- trees has changed nick to shikhin. 19:34:22 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 19:47:04 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 19:54:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: COSMIC CHICKEN). 19:54:16 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:09 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 19:58:40 <Sgeo> ty fizzie 20:03:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 20:04:53 -!- redryder has quit. 20:13:26 -!- vifino has joined. 20:14:14 -!- Oj742 has joined. 20:15:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:54:59 -!- redryder has joined. 21:08:43 -!- augur has joined. 21:19:48 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:19:57 -!- atehwa has joined. 21:26:49 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:36:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:17 -!- lollo64it has joined. 21:53:28 -!- boily has joined. 21:53:33 -!- metasepia has joined. 21:55:10 -!- Oj742 has quit (Quit: irc2go). 22:15:11 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:25:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:25:57 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:26:21 <oerjan> shachaf: why thank you! 22:26:27 -!- shikhout has joined. 22:26:47 -!- mhi^ has joined. 22:29:15 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:38:18 -!- ^v has joined. 22:38:31 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:42:11 -!- ejls has quit (Quit: bye). 22:52:11 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:53:30 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 22:53:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:54:30 <zzo38> I have idea another way to combine a chess game with a poker game. This is not a FIDE chess game, but is a bit difference. You can make the move with each poker hand dealt. You can drop pieces back onto the board like in shogi. There can be dueling like in Sirlin's chess, but using the poker chips. 22:55:40 <zzo38> If you drop piece onto the board, stand it up so your opponent cannot see what kind of piece it is; they have to guess, and if they guessed correctly they can take some of your poker chips but if they guessed wrong then you take their poker chips. Also some squares on the board can be labeled with poker hands and suits, and if you drop it on there, then when the cards are revealed, then if you have it you win some poker chips if you don't have it 22:56:26 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:56:53 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:59:25 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:36 * oerjan just noticed oots had an upgrade in drawing style at comic 947 23:00:19 <oerjan> now their hands are still sticky-like, but they are _flesh-colored_. and other little details. 23:00:19 <shachaf> Just now? 23:00:40 <shachaf> People have been complaining about it for weeks. 23:00:43 <oerjan> shachaf: i was zooming the newest comic, made it really obvious :P 23:01:28 <shachaf> My sister says she can't bear to look at the comic anymore. She just reads the text or something. 23:01:36 <oerjan> huh 23:01:48 <shachaf> This is what I've always done anyway. 23:05:01 <oerjan> well i like the new style. 23:05:16 <oerjan> i assume his secret plan is that the finale will be photorealistic hth 23:08:19 <zzo38> If you can copy the text then it can also perhaps be reformatted to fit the screen/paper, font size, etc, and if it can avoid to download the picture, and save disk space. 23:11:47 <zzo38> How many dimensions is the most amount that Fourier transform is sometimes used with? 23:14:00 <boily> I think 2, if you're doing image compression or stuff. 23:14:32 <boily> (there are probably weird people out there with a transform fetish applying it so some arbitrary high dimensions...) 23:15:15 <oerjan> it applies to an arbitrary locally compact abelian group, of which all R^n and Z^n are examples. 23:15:56 <zzo38> I wanted to see if you can then extend the PADsynth algorithm to two, three, or even four dimensions. 23:16:05 <oerjan> (although R^n have the particular property that the dual group, in which the result lives, is isomorphic) 23:16:43 -!- augur has joined. 23:16:50 <zzo38> I do not know how the results would appear to be. 23:17:25 <oerjan> (Z^n are dual to T^n where T is the complex unit circle under multiplication) 23:18:08 <zzo38> If doing PADsynth in three dimensions, you could get a animated tiled picture, although I am not sure what it would look like. (Doing so would also need to use higher dimensional Gaussian distributions.) 23:22:37 <oerjan> oh right gaussians are mapped to gaussians. that may not have been mentioned in the harmonic analysis course i took. 23:30:31 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:41:36 -!- redryder has quit. 23:42:24 -!- ejls has joined. 23:43:22 <zzo38> PADsynth uses gaussian distributions with random data for phases. 23:44:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39959&oldid=39958 * Oerjan * (+238) an evil layout epiphany 23:57:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:58:13 -!- augur has joined. 23:58:20 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 23:59:20 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 2014-06-29: 00:00:35 -!- Froox has joined. 00:02:43 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:03:07 -!- jj2baile_ has joined. 00:03:24 -!- jj2baile has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:03:35 -!- olsner_ has joined. 00:04:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:07 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:17 -!- ejls has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:18 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:18 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:04:36 -!- jix has joined. 00:05:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:07:12 -!- qlkzy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:07:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:07:37 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:09:56 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:09:56 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:10:14 -!- FreeFull has joined. 00:10:56 -!- rodgort has joined. 00:11:37 -!- myndzi has joined. 00:12:11 -!- qlkzy has joined. 00:12:31 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 00:13:29 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:17:51 -!- Burton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:17:52 -!- kyhwana has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:18:54 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:19:21 -!- kyhwana has joined. 00:22:01 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:22:30 -!- ski_ has joined. 00:22:39 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 00:23:53 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:23:53 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:23:53 -!- skarn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:24:30 -!- skarn has joined. 00:24:37 -!- skarn has changed nick to Guest42564. 00:24:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:25:26 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:30:32 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 00:30:41 -!- yiyus_ has joined. 00:32:40 -!- nortti_ has joined. 00:32:53 -!- Burton has joined. 00:33:05 -!- jix_ has joined. 00:37:06 -!- elliott_ has joined. 00:37:35 -!- diginet_ has joined. 00:37:42 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:43 -!- Tritonio has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:43 -!- aloril has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:44 -!- Sprocklem has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:45 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:45 -!- diginet has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:46 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:46 -!- realz has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:46 -!- impomatic_ has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:46 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 00:37:47 -!- impomatic has quit (*.net *.split). 00:40:31 -!- realz has joined. 00:40:31 -!- realz has quit (Changing host). 00:40:31 -!- realz has joined. 00:40:58 -!- aloril has joined. 00:43:26 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:44:07 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to Guest98832. 00:44:41 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 00:45:03 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:48:25 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 01:20:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNIVERSAL CHICKEN). 01:20:22 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:09 -!- FreeFull has quit. 01:43:17 -!- vifino has joined. 01:45:54 -!- diginet_ has quit (Quit: diginet has quit!). 01:46:30 -!- FreeFull has joined. 01:46:45 -!- diginet has joined. 01:59:17 <oerjan> oh darn. i edited wikipedia's esoteric programming language article to update the links to the wiki and User:Agyle took it as an opportunity to go on a general deletion massacre against the wiki and other community links. (did you know: our wiki is neither a reliable source, nor mentioned in any?) 02:02:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:02:27 -!- redryder has joined. 02:03:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:03:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:06:04 <elliott_> oerjan: iirc there is plenty of precedent for linking to established community wikis, though not as a source 02:08:29 <oerjan> well the bastard also removed the _entire_ section about the existence of a community. 02:12:14 <oerjan> elliott_: e is presumably referring to point 12 in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided 02:14:34 <elliott_> well, people will find the wiki anyhow 02:14:43 <oerjan> WANNA BET 02:14:58 <zzo38> Our wiki may be a reliable source for some things and may link to some reliable sources. 02:15:21 <zzo38> Not the best kind of reliable source, but for some things it works. 02:15:42 <oerjan> zzo38: that's a technical wikipedia term. 02:16:15 <oerjan> which causes madness if you try to compare it with the colloquial meaning. 02:16:19 <elliott_> anyway twke it to the talk page I guess (it'll be tedious) 02:16:25 <elliott_> *take 02:16:40 <zzo38> What does Wikipedia consider to be reliable then? 02:17:01 <zzo38> Shouldn't it depend on what you are looking for, and on how many sources there are for something? 02:18:13 <oerjan> "should" and "wikipedia policy" are not well correlated concepts hth 02:19:24 <oerjan> elliott_: i cannot bear that kind of arguing. 02:19:50 <elliott_> ditto 02:24:47 <oerjan> instead i passive-aggressively https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Agyle&diff=614833601&oldid=614551499 02:26:26 <shachaf> is that really all that passive 02:26:38 <shachaf> also that * turned into a bullet fo a bulleted list 02:26:41 <oerjan> i dunno. what's the exact definition. 02:26:49 <oerjan> i realized that a second too late, shachaf 02:27:03 <oerjan> i think editing it now would be even more pathetic :P 02:28:59 <oerjan> also stupid things are subject to muphry's law. just look at how long it took me to do the edits yesterday that provoked this. 02:43:08 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 02:47:46 -!- mihow has joined. 03:11:23 <redryder> puts on his tin foil hat 03:14:02 <oerjan> as long as you stay away from the wizard robe 03:25:18 <zzo38> Please tell me if you found any more mistakes in AmigaMML program, in amigasam, or feature requests, and/or anything unclear/incorrect in the provided documentation. 03:33:45 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 03:34:55 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:37:51 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 03:39:42 -!- Gregor`` has changed nick to Gregor. 03:51:03 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:00:11 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 04:03:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Javamannen * uploaded "[[File:CHIP16 controller.png]]": Taken from the Machine Specification for CHIP-16. https://github.com/chip16/chip16/wiki/Machine-Specification 04:05:12 <elliott_> that smells like non-pd content 04:09:29 <zzo38> What is smelling like non-pd content? 04:14:34 <elliott_> the image 04:15:36 <Bike> i think zzo has wiki updates blocked. 04:17:17 <oerjan> the LICENSE file for the repository is GPL 3, and i can find no other license for the wiki part. 04:17:35 <zzo38> What repository? 04:17:48 <oerjan> zzo38: the one in HackEgo's announcement 04:18:04 <zzo38> What announcement? 04:18:30 <zzo38> I have some announcements blocked. 04:18:33 <Bike> 21:02 < HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Javamannen * uploaded "[[File:CHIP16 controller.png]]": Taken from the Machine Specification for CHIP-16. https://github.com/chip16/chip16/wiki/Machine-Specification 04:18:58 <Bike> hopefully you aren't just blocking .*[wiki].* or something, i guess 04:19:45 <zzo38> I am not just blocking .*[wiki].* 04:20:04 <zzo38> The exact specification of the filter I am using is: <1> i /:HackEgo![^ ]* PRIVMSG #esoteric :\[wiki\]/i 04:20:44 <zzo38> I can see the picture now; it has one extra dot it look like. 04:20:51 <elliott_> if you use ignore rules then the reasonable bursen is on you to use logs or whatever to see stuff you missed, since it's a personal thing 04:21:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[File:CHIP16 controller.png]]": Copyright violation: As far as I can see, the repository that is from is GPL 3 04:21:14 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose so 04:21:37 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:21:42 <zzo38> Although if you are referencing something on the wiki you should specify what you are referencing anyways though 04:22:22 <zzo38> Also the buttons are different order from the Famicom order; you could use Famicom order instead, which is: A, B, Select, Start, Up, Down, Left, Right. 04:22:25 <oerjan> zzo38: repeating information that was said on the previous irc line is a little silly 04:23:41 <oerjan> now i deleted it, anyway 04:23:51 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, unless you are trying to clarify something, of course. Because there can be a lot of people and messages on the IRC, it can sometimes be unclear, until you read it a second time 04:24:23 <zzo38> Are we allowed to post messages on the talk page of a deleted file in wiki? 04:25:01 <elliott_> yes but I'll ban you (not really) 04:25:53 <zzo38> (That is, I mean if the messages being posted will not have any copyright violations, can it be posted OK?) 04:26:11 <oerjan> sure 04:27:04 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:30:03 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:35:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:CHIP16 controller.png]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39961 * Zzo38 * (+819) Created page with "This file was deleted, due to copyright violation (please post only public domain files here) (also the picture seem to have one extra dot). I can perhaps also suggest that yo..." 04:35:53 <zzo38> Now I made ASCII version is it better? 04:38:18 <oerjan> hope so 04:40:51 -!- redryder has quit. 04:45:16 <elliott_> oerjan: upon actually viewing the image, I suspect it is likely uncopyrightable 04:45:38 <oerjan> oh? 04:46:32 <elliott_> well, it is a very simple, non-artistic arrangement of geometric shapes and digits 04:46:54 <oerjan> the github code says it was from http://imgur.com/ExCAKZo btw 04:47:12 <oerjan> not that that helps 04:47:35 <oerjan> elliott_: well if you're sure go ahead and restore it >:) 04:47:58 <zzo38> elliott_: Probably you are correct, I think, although I made ASCII version anyways in case it help more. 04:48:39 <elliott_> oerjan: well, the wiki is no longer my legal liability :P 04:48:40 <zzo38> (ASCII version include text labels as well as numeric, in the order they are found in Famicom, GameBoy, NES, etc) 04:48:45 <elliott_> however the image is ugly 04:48:51 <elliott_> someone should just remake it. 04:49:03 <elliott_> I guess ASCII is fine. 04:49:20 <oerjan> elliott_: it's not mine either hth 05:24:10 <MDream> Send a description of the image to someone who hasn't seen the original so they can clean room reverse egnineer it? 05:24:37 <Bike> um what if the description is copyrighted, 05:25:33 <MDream> Don't use the original description, just make a new one based on looking at the chart? 05:25:57 <Bike> but the chart is copyrighted! 05:26:37 <MDream> Well yeah, that's why you send a desciption of it. 05:27:06 <MDream> I guess to be sure you'd need the lawyer times. 05:27:41 <MDream> And not someone who just looked at the WIkipedia article on clean room reverse engineering for a bit. 05:28:36 <Bike> i'd look at the article but it may also be copyrighted 05:29:28 * MDream copyrights the word "copyright". 05:33:18 * oerjan patents MDream 05:33:56 <MDream> Wel at least that expires after 20 years. 05:34:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Slide]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39962&oldid=39949 * Zzo38 * (+319) 05:37:55 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 05:41:15 <zzo38> What is the probability of winning/losing/draw at a chess game if moves are selected at random using uniform probabilities for each legal move, and no draws are used except for lack of legal moves and infinity of future is necessary? 05:41:53 -!- redryder has joined. 05:42:05 <zzo38> (Promotion counts as four possible moves, so it is four times as likely as another move.) 05:43:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[File talk:CHIP16 controller.png]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39963&oldid=39961 * Javamannen * (+171) Sorry for the copyright violation, and thanks for the tip! 05:49:52 <oerjan> zzo38: that sounds like the thing you could estimate by repeating it enough times, but which would likely be exponentially hard to calculate exactly 05:49:59 <oerjan> *kind of thing 05:50:23 <Bike> And both players are playing like this, or? 05:51:05 <zzo38> Bike: Yes, it applies to both players. (Presumably, you do not actually play chess like this; it is entirely hypothetical.) 05:51:56 <zzo38> oerjan: I believe you. Perhaps it is easier if a variant with smaller board and less pieces? 05:54:53 <oerjan> well sure. exponentially hard also become easy if the instance is small enough. 05:54:58 <oerjan> *becomes 05:56:04 <zzo38> I think that it is possible to make up the "1 L" rule of linear logic out of the cut rule and "1 R" rule. 05:58:34 <zzo38> (There is the similar thing with the rules for bottom, too) 05:59:00 <oerjan> "for every polynomial-time algorithm you have, there is an exponential algorithm that I would rather run" -- alan perlis, as quoted by dick lipton 06:01:13 <zzo38> oerjan: Why do they have that? 06:02:50 <oerjan> because exponential doesn't mean _always_ slower, presumably 06:03:19 <redryder> you can get some serious approximations out to many decimals using taylor and mclaren series 06:04:05 <oerjan> redryder: for zzo38's problem? i doubt it. 06:04:26 <Bike> WHAT ABOUT AN ORTHONORMAL BASIS OF BESSEL FUNCTIONS 06:05:11 <redryder> besssel function, what are you trying to do build a nuclear reactor? lol 06:05:14 <oerjan> because the structure of legal moves is too complex to turn into an efficient formula 06:05:16 -!- augur has joined. 06:06:18 <oerjan> redryder: what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? 06:06:24 <redryder> there are planets where the atmosphere is so dense, you can look straight forward and see the back of your own head 06:06:41 <oerjan> wait was redryder someone's bot 06:07:18 <redryder> that esotericly rich 06:07:29 <redryder> like bs 06:08:04 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 06:08:29 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*redryder@*.nwrknj.east.verizon.net. 06:08:29 -!- oerjan has kicked redryder You are annoying and speaking nonsense. 06:08:32 <Bike> weird. 06:08:36 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 06:10:41 <oerjan> also, failing the turing test 06:14:15 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 06:14:53 <oerjan> Bike: my default assumption is a rude chatbot... 06:15:09 <Bike> i'm not complaining. 06:15:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39964&oldid=39957 * Javamannen * (+530) 06:16:11 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:24:32 -!- ^0 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:27:17 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 06:29:56 -!- ^v has joined. 06:30:13 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:34:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:47:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:08:00 -!- Guest42564 has quit (Changing host). 07:08:00 -!- Guest42564 has joined. 07:08:52 -!- Guest42564 has changed nick to skarn. 07:15:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39965&oldid=39964 * Javamannen * (+12) 60 MIPS overkill? 07:22:09 -!- BeingToDeath has quit. 07:23:59 -!- conehead has joined. 07:39:29 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Changing host). 07:39:29 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 07:40:03 -!- Burton has quit (Changing host). 07:40:03 -!- Burton has joined. 08:06:44 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:11:46 -!- ket1v has joined. 08:13:31 -!- ket1v has quit (Client Quit). 08:21:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:24:52 <fizzie> Perhaps it was a person pretending it's a bot pretending it's a person. 08:26:51 <Taneb> Goooooood morning 08:27:30 <zzo38> Could a programming language be made for testing random number generator quality and calculating probabilities and distributions, as follows: Have one "$" instruction for "toss coin", which can split a program into two states with half a probability. There is a finite states subset, and when not used it can cancel any probability which is "too small", otherwise it can calculate exact probabilities even in case of infinite loop sometimes. 08:28:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39966&oldid=39959 * GermanyBoy * (+0) /* Structures */ corrected name 08:45:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39967&oldid=39966 * GermanyBoy * (+470) /* Indentation rules */ 08:52:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:SYCPOL]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39968 * Zzo38 * (+1550) Created page with "Another idea would be to fix it so that it will work even if the cards are placed in the wrong order. Such as, the division and/or section, and what it belongs to, must be men..." 09:14:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:22:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Braktif]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39969&oldid=19938 * Rdebath * (+1065) /* Turing complete etc */ new section 09:34:46 -!- augur has joined. 09:38:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 09:43:37 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 09:45:22 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 09:45:23 -!- Guest98832 has quit (*.net *.split). 09:47:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Processor/1]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39970&oldid=13660 * Rdebath * (+26) Killed by DynDNS 09:51:09 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:56:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:58:49 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:59:42 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:03:51 -!- kyhwana_ has joined. 10:04:07 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 10:06:26 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:06:26 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:09:08 -!- kyhwana has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:09 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 10:09:38 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:09:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:26:45 -!- shikhout has joined. 10:27:14 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:27:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:30:04 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:31:57 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:34:31 -!- rodgort has joined. 10:40:09 -!- applybot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:53:32 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:01:12 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:38:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:43:32 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:51:34 -!- yorick has joined. 12:03:40 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 12:07:30 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:07:59 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Guest783. 12:09:03 -!- Guest783 has changed nick to shikhout. 12:09:09 -!- shikhout has quit (Changing host). 12:09:09 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:09:26 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:21:33 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 12:24:56 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:28:42 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 12:34:41 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 12:34:48 -!- vifino has joined. 12:35:11 -!- mhi^ has joined. 12:55:04 -!- boily has joined. 13:05:08 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:08:24 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 13:24:30 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 13:32:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39971&oldid=39968 * GermanyBoy * (+1110) 13:33:44 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:40:31 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:10:18 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:13:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: MINIM CHICKEN). 14:13:10 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:19:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Slide]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39972&oldid=39962 * GreyKnight * (+297) 14:36:28 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:46:45 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 15:26:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:35:07 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:39:23 -!- ^v has joined. 15:51:02 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:55:03 -!- TodPunk has joined. 16:20:29 <fizzie> Sigh, computers. My (USB, wired) keyboard does not work in the GRUB menu if a (USB) Bluetooth dongle is plugged in at boot time. 16:21:10 <int-e> BIOS 1 : fizzie 0. 16:22:05 <int-e> are they on the same USB bus? how much power does the Bluetooth dongle claim? Is there any left for the keyboard afterwards? 16:33:31 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 16:51:37 <mroman> I see that as "Machines 1 : Humans 0" 16:56:35 <mroman> zzo38: what two states? 17:08:44 <zzo38> mroman: Head and tails, of course. 17:09:21 -!- conehead has joined. 17:11:23 <myname> what is the downside of Data.Vector as opposed to Data.Array? 17:14:20 -!- Mathnerd626 has joined. 17:17:48 <elliott_> one dimensional only 17:17:59 <myname> well, fuck 17:18:20 <myname> i didn't get arrays yet 17:19:00 <elliott_> vector is nice 17:19:07 <elliott_> you can just nest them. 17:19:29 <elliott_> or do index arithmetic manually 17:20:02 <myname> so i do a fromList (map fromList foo) to turn [[a]] into a twodimensional vector? 17:20:32 <Bike> a vector of vectors, isn't it 17:20:34 <elliott_> sure, though index arithmetic might be nicer 17:20:38 <elliott_> since less indirection 17:20:54 <myname> does it really matter? 17:20:54 <elliott_> assuming that klist is square 17:20:57 <elliott_> *list 17:21:02 <elliott_> yes 17:21:07 <myname> it actually does not have to be 17:21:15 <elliott_> then nest vectors 17:21:21 <myname> i can force it, but i don't want to if i don't have to 17:21:27 <elliott_> but indirection is expensive, locality is nice, caching, etc. 17:21:36 <myname> ah, i see 17:21:53 <myname> well, even without that it should be way faster than [[a]] 17:22:03 <elliott_> what are you storing? 17:22:13 <myname> a rail programm 17:22:41 <myname> i.e. some plaintext 17:22:44 <elliott_> HashMap (Int,Int) is underrated, also 17:23:00 <myname> i think so 17:23:35 <Bike> rail has a lot of blank space, doesn't it? maybe a hash map would be better. 17:23:42 <Bike> or something based on the actual graph, maybe 17:24:05 <Bike> gotta lead the way towards esolang JITs 17:24:25 <myname> i want to access the cell at the current instruction pointer position 17:24:29 <elliott_> HashMap is nice because you can update it with less overhead 17:24:31 <myname> that's like the most used operation 17:24:39 <elliott_> less copying 17:24:47 <myname> rail programms won't be updated once created 17:25:55 <elliott_> then try vector and HashMap and see which you like more :) 17:26:08 <fizzie> int-e: A bit late, but the keyboard seemed to work post-boot. And the keyboard was in a (passive) hub connected to one of the back-of-the-box ports, while the USB dongle was in one of the front USB ports, but who knows how those are connected. 17:26:21 <elliott_> you probably want a boxed vector of unboxed vectors 17:26:23 <myname> i know maps 17:26:29 <elliott_> which might get a little confusing 17:26:37 <myname> is hashmap faster at accessing than map? 17:26:55 <elliott_> HashMap is faster at almost everything 17:27:20 <myname> are they reasonably cheap to update? 17:28:29 <elliott_> yeah 17:28:38 <myname> sounds perfect 17:28:43 <int-e> fizzie: lsusb can be used to find out 17:29:04 <int-e> fizzie: but as you describe it it sounds like a bug :) 17:29:37 <fizzie> int-e: The same system has trouble booting at all if I forget the USB card reader (with a SD card from the camera) connected. 17:30:16 <fizzie> I second Bike's suggestion about "something based on the actual graph", since I guess Rail doesn't do self-modification? 17:30:56 <myname> that might be tricky for an dedicated rail editor 17:31:07 <elliott_> myname: you just said it won't be updated... 17:31:10 <myname> hashmap is pretty easy to adapt for that manner 17:31:18 <myname> elliott_: i am thinking ahead! 17:31:54 <fizzie> A thinking head thinks ahead. 17:32:24 <myname> is there any advantage of Map instead of HashMap? 17:32:34 <myname> like, why is there even a Map? 17:32:48 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:32:56 <elliott_> it goes by order not hash 17:33:06 <elliott_> so it can do more efficient queries based on key order 17:33:15 <elliott_> HashMap is mostly just newer though. 17:35:44 <myname> does HashMap has O(1) access? 17:35:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:37:15 <elliott_> no 17:37:23 <elliott_> it is log 17:37:26 <Bike> there's no reason you can't make a structure editor maaaaan 17:38:00 <myname> Bike: that may be true, but it makes things a lot harder 17:38:02 <elliott_> you don't need O(1) though probably 17:38:23 <elliott_> btw O(1) access and update are incompatible (for a persistent structure) 17:38:27 <Bike> you've already spent like half an hour wondering how to do text most efficiently. less thinking more making shit up 17:39:05 <myname> Bike: we profiled our code and the most time is spent looking up characters 17:39:14 <myname> i do think it's fair to work at this 17:39:22 <Bike> and that would completely disappear with a graph. bam. 17:39:32 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:39:51 <myname> Bike: the code that looks up actually makes a graph out of the code 17:39:59 <myname> (the rail code) 17:40:57 <Bike> also why is this in haskell instead of self-hosting, you terrible person 17:41:23 <myname> that was not my choice 17:41:29 <myname> we had to do haskell or c++ 17:41:42 <myname> so i obviously chose haskell! 17:42:06 <myname> s/choice/decission/ 17:53:34 <myname> uh, i don't have any efficient way of getting the "size" of a hashmap, have i? (or any reasonable upper bound) 17:55:01 <elliott_> the size function? 17:55:13 <elliott_> it is O(1) Ivthink. 17:55:18 <myname> perfect! 17:56:59 <myname> now i just have to write a function to convert that 18:01:39 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 18:04:05 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:06:59 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:13:02 <myname> extracting something from the first line gets trickier, though 18:13:10 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:13:21 <zzo38> Now I have a Redmine program for AmigaMML. 18:13:40 <myname> zzo38: i am not even surprised anymore 18:17:18 <elliott_> myname: a nested hashmap works too 18:18:56 <myname> i do think (Int, Int) is fine, this is one corner case that only gets done once per function 18:29:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:30:05 <myname> okay, i will change to nested hashmaps 18:31:18 <elliott_> IntMap is also a thing but I think HashMap is faster. 18:31:44 <elliott_> though IntMap can do some specialised optiona faster, like Map 18:31:51 <elliott_> *operations 18:44:41 <myname> strange thing there is no [a] -> IntMap a 18:45:11 -!- Mathnerd626 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:46:42 <elliott_> fromList . zip [0..] 18:46:54 <myname> ah 18:46:56 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:47:00 <myname> should've thought of that 18:47:09 <myname> i barely use zip 18:48:18 <elliott_> but you should probably use HashMap 18:48:25 <myname> why? 18:48:40 <elliott_> it's faster than IntMap on the usual operations, unless that changed 18:48:57 <myname> that's strange 18:49:16 <elliott_> HashMap should he yiur default map structure unkess you know why you'd need something else. 18:49:22 <elliott_> also I can't type. 19:00:46 -!- vifino has joined. 19:03:13 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 19:17:55 <zzo38> Please tell me if there is anything unclear or any lies in the documentation? https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/attachments/download/353/amigamml.doc (it is a plain text, not Microsoft Word format) 19:27:28 <TieSoul> hey guys 19:27:57 <TieSoul> I made a Befunge-98 interpreter :D 19:28:00 <TieSoul> https://github.com/TieSoul/befunge/blob/master/befunge-exec.py 19:28:10 <myname> who doesn't 19:28:10 <TieSoul> Beware: Bad code. 19:29:22 <myname> i assume toList from HashMap Int Char gives no guarantee whatsoever of ordering 19:29:32 <TieSoul> and I forgot to change a few things when refactoring 19:29:47 <TieSoul> HashMap? 19:30:06 <TieSoul> oh wait you're talking about them above here? 19:30:08 <TieSoul> :P 19:30:14 <myname> i do 19:38:24 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:43:46 -!- not^v has joined. 19:47:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:51:57 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:54:25 -!- ket1v has joined. 19:54:38 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:54:49 -!- Bike has joined. 19:56:40 -!- ket1v has quit (Client Quit). 20:00:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:06:05 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 20:11:52 -!- vifino_ has joined. 20:14:40 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 20:17:42 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:17:42 -!- vifino has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:17:42 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:19:36 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:20:34 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 20:24:58 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:26:15 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortticat. 20:26:33 -!- nortticat has changed nick to nortti. 20:26:51 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 20:29:14 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 20:29:27 -!- nooodl__ has changed nick to nooodl. 20:29:39 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:29:42 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:29:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:32:11 -!- jix has joined. 20:32:31 -!- jix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:36:35 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:36:38 -!- pikhq has joined. 20:39:54 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:49:45 -!- ^v has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:49:47 -!- not^v has changed nick to ^v. 20:50:12 -!- not^v has joined. 20:57:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39973&oldid=39965 * Javamannen * (-1711) Reboot & rethink. 20:59:37 <Sgeo> Right now this diagram makes no sense whatsoever 21:12:04 <^v> Sgeo, ur a diagram 21:12:11 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:12:23 <Sgeo> Therefore, I make no sens 21:12:24 <Sgeo> e 21:19:56 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:21:42 -!- lollo64it has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:33:06 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:33:31 -!- ^v has joined. 21:38:27 -!- aretecode has joined. 21:39:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:45:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ndef++]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39974 * Javamannen * (+413) This is the programming language of choice for the Demiurge 21:48:27 <myname> :O 21:48:31 <myname> Deprecated: "HashMap is deprecated. Please use Map instead." 21:48:49 <myname> i am confused 21:50:39 <fizzie> Perhaps you're looking at the "hashmap" package instead of the "unordered-containers" one? 21:50:53 <myname> i thought i used that? 21:51:30 <oerjan> myname: look at which package was loaded by ghci 21:51:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39975&oldid=39701 * Javamannen * (+45) NDef++ 21:51:59 <myname> Data.HashMap 21:52:09 <oerjan> that's a module, not a package 21:52:34 <oerjan> and there is no such module in unordered-containers 21:52:39 <myname> fuck it, i'll use maps 21:52:41 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:52:52 <oerjan> use Data.HashMap.Lazy or Data.HashMap.Strict 21:52:57 -!- not^v has joined. 21:53:32 <myname> those aren't deprecated when Data.HashMap is? 21:53:42 <oerjan> no, those are from unordered-containers 21:53:53 <oerjan> module names are not necessarily globally unique 21:54:27 <oerjan> (unordered-containers comes with the haskell platform, so is very much not deprecated) 21:54:31 <myname> i will discuss that with people from the project 21:55:36 <oerjan> Data.Map will of course also work for just about everything 21:56:19 <myname> as far as i know, we are faster than the c++ team 21:56:44 <oerjan> https://hackage.haskell.org/package/unordered-containers-0.2.4.0 21:57:01 <fizzie> And apparently the "HashMap is deprecated" notice in the Data.HashMap module of the hashmap package only refers to the fact that it's deprecated over the Data.Map module *in hashmap*. 21:57:04 <oerjan> oh is it the icfp contest? 21:57:15 <fizzie> (Though the whole package is marked as deprecated in favour of unordered-containers.) 21:57:28 <oerjan> fizzie: heh 21:58:02 <fizzie> Er, I mean, the Map type in Data.HashMap, of course. 21:58:17 <fizzie> In any case, not the Data.Map Map. 21:58:52 <oerjan> actually the haskell platform version is still on 0.2.3.0 21:59:41 <oerjan> since the platform is about a year old. a new version is planned as soon as ghc 7.8.3 is out 22:00:48 <oerjan> oh not the icfp contest 22:01:08 <oerjan> myname: is this some other contest or if not why are there teams 22:01:33 <myname> oerjan: it's a software project module of our university 22:01:41 <oerjan> aha 22:13:31 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:13:54 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 22:13:54 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 22:13:54 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 22:13:54 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 22:14:10 -!- ggherdov_ has changed nick to ggherdov. 22:34:41 -!- tony662 has joined. 22:35:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:35:50 -!- tony662 has left ("Leaving..."). 22:39:01 -!- Bike has joined. 22:49:42 <myname> okay, one last thing: if i have data Foo = Foo { ..., bar :: Map ... } and at some point i make foo{x=5}, will it copy the map or reuse the existing one? 22:54:13 <oerjan> reuse 22:55:22 <oerjan> at runtime, the bar field in Foo is just a pointer to the map, after all. 22:55:26 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:55:44 -!- ^v has joined. 22:57:25 <oerjan> it's not the kind of type that it makes sense to unbox 22:58:08 <oerjan> and even if it were, it would only happen with the right settings and a strictness annotation. 23:05:06 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:05:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:06:51 -!- Bike has joined. 23:10:45 <Taneb> `ping 23:10:45 <HackEgo> pong 23:10:51 <Taneb> `ls bin 23:10:51 <HackEgo> ​` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ ? \ ¿ \ @ \ ؟ \ WELCOME \ \ \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ anonlog \ as86 \ aseen \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ buttsnack \ calc \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ cc \ cdecl \ c++decl \ chroot \ coins \ complain \ complaints \ danddreclist \ define \ delquote \ delvs \ dis86 \ e \ 23:11:07 <Taneb> `8-ball 23:11:07 <HackEgo> Outlook good. 23:11:11 <Taneb> Sweet. 23:11:16 <Taneb> `allquotes 23:11:17 <HackEgo> 1) <Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 3) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 4) <Warrigal> GKennethR: he 23:11:20 <Bike> `8ball 23:11:21 <HackEgo> Yes. 23:12:34 <Taneb> `echo bin/oerjan # wat 23:12:35 <HackEgo> bin/oerjan # wat 23:12:40 <Taneb> `cat bin/oerjan # wat 23:12:41 <HackEgo> cat: bin/oerjan # wat: No such file or directory 23:12:45 <Taneb> `cat bin/oerjan 23:12:45 <HackEgo> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:12:53 <Taneb> `run echo < bin/oerjan # wat 23:12:54 <HackEgo> No output. 23:12:56 <Taneb> :( 23:13:23 <Taneb> `run xargs echo < bin/oerjan # wat 23:13:24 <HackEgo> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 23:13:27 <Taneb> I learnt something today 23:14:28 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:14:55 <oerjan> fancy 23:15:09 <oerjan> well, it's only been 14 minutes afaict 23:17:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:26:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:28:18 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:36:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:38:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:46:11 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:46:11 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 2014-06-30: 00:11:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:11:53 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:14:17 <zzo38> Do you know about code generator generators and compiler optimizations much? 00:15:14 <Bike> i invented them 00:20:33 <oerjan> what, are you trying to steal Taneb's job 00:20:56 -!- vifino_ has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 00:20:57 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:47:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39976&oldid=39947 * Zzo38 * (+2491) 00:48:09 <Sgeo> Owned box values exist in 1:1 correspondence with their heap allocation copying an owned box value makes a shallow copy of the pointer Rust will consider a shallow copy of an owned box to move ownership of the value. 00:57:29 <Bike> Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 01:01:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39977&oldid=39976 * Zzo38 * (+35) 01:03:35 <zzo38> On the Famicom, SHIFT key is always toggle bit4 of the ASCII code. Why didn't they design the PC keyboard like this? 01:05:40 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 01:09:20 <zzo38> Does this implementation looks like correct to you? cmpv : (*a |- $1(*b); *a |- $1(*c); *a |- $1(*d)) / ($1(|\|), $2(|\|), *a |- $3(*b), $4(*c), $5(*d)); cmpv = [bb,cc,dd/x,y,b,c,d] cmp (bb b) (cc c) (dd d) x y; 01:16:44 <zzo38> I hink one way you could make alias analysis is just to mark some variables as aliased, and then any one that is aliased can be read/write through pointers and it then considers that any or all of them may be read/write at such a time; all others are never aliased. 01:16:55 <zzo38> Would it work? 02:08:14 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 02:21:42 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:22:17 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:30:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:32:24 -!- Bike has joined. 02:33:31 -!- lollo64it has joined. 02:36:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:37:50 <Sgeo> Bike: I blame Rust docs 02:42:22 -!- ^v has changed nick to not^v. 02:42:37 -!- not^v has changed nick to notnot^v. 02:42:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:42:49 -!- notnot^v has changed nick to ^v. 02:44:46 -!- Bike has joined. 03:09:12 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 03:11:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:22:14 <Sgeo> http://play.golang.org/p/otMa6pWhnZ 03:22:23 <Sgeo> <Sgeo> So the interface value itself exists but points to nil? 03:22:23 <Sgeo> <hyphenated> correct 03:32:11 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 03:35:12 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:23 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:48:43 <zzo38> How commonly are used MediaWiki templates that take names of other templates as parameters? I have done this ones, to make separate data and format templates, for the purpose of making comparison charts. 04:21:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 04:29:40 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:48:13 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 05:14:46 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream. 05:19:36 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:19:53 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:38:50 <Sgeo> I should reimplement Braintrust in a Common Lisp 05:38:54 <Sgeo> Specifically Clozure CL probably 05:39:14 <Sgeo> I don't think SBCL is suitable for this program. How often does THAT occur, needing a specific CL implementation? 05:40:24 <Sgeo> I wonder if that would be considered cheating 05:47:08 <Sgeo> We may need a language unusually good at implementing Braintrust-like languages 05:47:10 -!- BeingToDeath has quit. 05:50:15 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^0. 06:13:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39978&oldid=39977 * Zzo38 * (+175) 06:22:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:22:33 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:25:48 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:29:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:35:25 <zzo38> Once I did a "uniform Huffman" coding: Figure out the largest odd factor of the number of symbols (shift right the number until you get an odd number). Now make a Huffman coding using that many symbols with equal probabilities. That is then used to encode each symbol, followed by the extra bits. 06:36:20 <zzo38> It can be used if you do not know the actual frequencies. 06:37:42 <zzo38> It doesn't quite result in best compression, although it is simple and causes each symbol represented by a bit sequence. 07:20:50 -!- slereah has joined. 07:24:07 <zzo38> I can think of another kind of betting structure for poker, which is "over-pot-limit", which means pot-limit plus a constant. 07:26:01 <zzo38> Similarly, you can make pot-limit minus a constant if you like to do so, or double-pot-limit, or other variants, for example you have to use prime numbers. 07:36:42 -!- Tritonio has joined. 07:46:50 -!- augur has joined. 07:55:58 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:56:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39979&oldid=39967 * GermanyBoy * (+482) /* The structure of the program */ 07:57:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39980&oldid=39979 * GermanyBoy * (-1) /* PROGRAM CODE DIVISION */ 07:58:29 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:08:22 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:22:13 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 08:23:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39981&oldid=39980 * GermanyBoy * (+776) /* Standard SYCPOL formatting rules */ character set 08:23:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:25:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39982&oldid=39981 * GermanyBoy * (+0) /* System cards */ that is true, my (work in progress) card machine accepts only SSC-M1. 08:27:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39983&oldid=39982 * GermanyBoy * (+0) /* IMPORTS DIVISION */ prefix 09:46:59 <fizzie> Aw, the cafe-with-3D-printers next door is closed for the summer. :/ 09:50:30 <fizzie> And the "urban workshop" (also with 3D printers) hosted by the city library closes for summer... today. Good timing. 09:51:44 <fizzie> "NOW AT AALTO FABLAB: FabLab is on summer break until August." come *on* 09:55:33 -!- conehead has joined. 09:58:04 <Taneb> fizzie, what kind of cafe has 3D printers!? 09:59:51 <fizzie> Taneb: It's a university student kind of thing, http://addlab.aalto.fi/social-space/add-cafe 10:00:23 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:01:00 <fizzie> They did some kind of 3D printing workshops, though this is not terribly well documented in the interwebs. 10:07:49 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:11:05 -!- boily has joined. 11:00:34 -!- vifino has joined. 11:08:47 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CROSSOVER CHICKEN). 11:10:55 -!- yorick has joined. 11:13:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:13:27 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:51:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 11:52:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:54:46 <slereah> conehead reminds me of why Dan Akroyd is such a weird anomaly 11:55:01 <slereah> He made like two great movies and everything else is Coneheads and worse 12:05:25 -!- ais523_ has joined. 12:11:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:25:27 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 12:30:16 -!- idris-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:31:52 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:51:00 -!- MDream has changed nick to MDude. 13:13:08 -!- TieSoul_ has joined. 13:15:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39984&oldid=39983 * GermanyBoy * (+2129) fibonacci sequence and RS-SYCPOL 13:15:32 -!- TieSoul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:17:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39985&oldid=39978 * GreyKnight * (+2453) /* A suggested memory map */ new section 13:47:52 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:47:58 -!- Melvar has quit (Client Quit). 13:48:20 -!- Melvar has joined. 13:52:29 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:54:06 -!- b_jonas has joined. 13:55:52 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:05:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:13:01 -!- idris-bot has joined. 14:24:44 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:27:18 -!- aretecode has joined. 14:41:28 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:08:03 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:12:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:12:52 -!- augur has joined. 15:16:58 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:25:54 -!- mihow has joined. 15:33:45 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:47:09 -!- mhi^ has joined. 15:50:54 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:59:06 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 16:04:26 -!- augur has joined. 16:15:18 -!- ^0 has changed nick to ^v. 16:15:30 -!- Vorpal has joined. 16:33:54 -!- clog_ has quit (Quit: ^C). 16:34:09 -!- clog has joined. 16:35:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:41:27 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 16:41:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:44:38 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:47:19 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 16:50:11 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:08:11 <mroman> Hehe 17:08:21 <mroman> I've passed Crypto 17:08:27 <mroman> Hard . 17:08:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:11:06 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:16:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:22:27 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 18:01:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:04:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[DoubleFuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39986&oldid=37799 * 89.136.163.78 * (+1733) added interpreter 18:06:20 <Bicyclidine> how many languages match *fuck* but are not based on brainfuck 18:06:39 <elliott_> oklopol's 18:06:52 <ais523_> it's based on brainfuck in the sense that it explicitly isn't based on brainfuck 18:07:01 <ais523_> if brainfuck didn't exist, it couldn't be 18:07:12 <Bicyclidine> you mean Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck? 18:07:14 <elliott_> also Not a brainfuck derivative, questionably 18:07:16 <elliott_> yeah 18:07:17 <ais523_> yeah, that one 18:07:42 <Bicyclidine> i thought it was a parody of the "brainfuck after weird obfuscation" ones. 18:08:04 <elliott_> still not much of a bf derivative 18:08:19 <Bicyclidine> philistine! 18:25:49 <zzo38> I can think that many Forth commands can be compiled into series of Z-machine instructions, however a lot of optimization can be possible to not always use the stack, as well as to keep a "compiler stack" during optimization of each basic block to determine types of each data further allowing optimization before code generation. 18:29:29 <zzo38> For example, DUP becomes [VALUES 0 >0], DROP becomes [FSTACK] or [ICALL2 0 *0], 1+ becomes [INC 0], and DROP DROP DROP 0 becomes [CALL 0 *0 *0 *0 >0]. 18:30:53 <zzo38> Pushes onto stack which are known to be dropped can be replaced by stores into dead non-aliased variables. 18:33:21 <ais523_> compiling Forth sort-of seems to miss the point, to me 18:33:28 <ais523_> at least, ahead-of-time 18:33:34 <ais523_> the sort of compilation Forth does as it executse is fine 18:33:43 <zzo38> Other things are possible for example . becomes [PRINTN *0], TYPE becomes [PRINT *0], SDESC can mean [PRINTD *0]. 18:33:46 <ais523_> btw, did anyone ever finish off that /bin/false exploit? 18:34:17 <zzo38> ais523_: I mean it would compile into intermediate code as it executes, and then any intermediate code which is not dead is compiled into Z-machine code. 18:36:08 <zzo38> I believe Z-machine codes [POP 0] is like the Forth code called NIP 18:36:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:36:38 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:39:10 <zzo38> Another idea I have is that the compiler stack (this is separate from the Forth compiler stack; it is a stack used for converting intermediate code) can tell what is booleans and therefore to generate predicate instructions which directly branch in such a case instead of pushing 1 or 0 into the stack. 18:40:30 <zzo38> However I don't know perfectly about these kind of code generation so maybe I need help. Do you know it any better to describe what is wrong with it and so on? 18:43:32 <zzo38> Would use of scanner generators and parser generators help if they are modified to be used for code generation somehow? 18:50:19 <zzo38> How would peephole optimizer generators work? 18:54:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39987&oldid=39973 * Javamannen * (+3655) Less Fluff, more Stuff 18:55:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:58:05 -!- b_jonas has joined. 19:05:50 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:06:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:10:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:12:05 -!- Bike has joined. 19:13:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[SYCPOL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39988&oldid=39984 * GermanyBoy * (+22) /* Fibonacci sequence */ fix 19:14:42 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 19:15:03 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:15:04 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 19:22:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39989&oldid=39985 * Javamannen * (+587) 19:24:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:30:01 -!- augur has joined. 19:33:18 <Melvar> I am amused by today’s Codeless Code. 19:33:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:GermanyBoy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39990&oldid=39944 * GermanyBoy * (+1) /* Non-esoteric languages */ 19:40:47 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:44:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39991&oldid=39989 * Javamannen * (+227) How about SYCPOL? 19:52:47 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:09:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:10:07 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 20:10:16 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 20:16:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:17:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:18:22 -!- Bike has joined. 20:18:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:19:38 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^v_________. 20:19:52 -!- conehead has joined. 20:23:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:35:59 -!- ^v_________ has changed nick to ^v. 20:41:40 <fizzie> You folks are the kind of people who are knowledgeable about 3D printing, right? 20:42:17 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:42:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:42:45 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:42:45 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:43:09 <Bicyclidine> I read a science fiction story involving 3d printers, once. so es. 20:43:10 <Bicyclidine> yes 20:45:35 <fizzie> Okay, good. I need a piece of plastic in a particular shape, and there's a 3D printer in the local library that I think prints PLA, but I have no idea what the appropriate wall thickness is so that it doesn't crumble when I look at it wrong, but on the other hand is not overly wasteful and slow to print. 20:47:04 <Bicyclidine> i assume this is a middle layer of space ship plating, so i'm going to recommend at least 50 cm thick for dealing with micrometeoroid impacts 20:47:20 <fizzie> Thank you, that was useful. 20:47:49 <Bicyclidine> seriously though i imagine that's just structural engineering? and depends on, e.g., the forces this thing is subjected to. 20:48:15 <Bicyclidine> such as gravity from the height 20:51:28 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:52:16 <fizzie> AIUI, the current (cheap) printers are kind of fiddly and slow, and can't print all things that should theoretically be possible. 20:55:35 <fowl> aiui = as i understand it? 20:56:34 <fizzie> Yes. 20:57:39 <fowl> yay 21:26:30 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:26:53 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:27:14 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 21:27:14 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:28:55 -!- mhi^_ has joined. 21:34:48 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:34:55 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:35:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:35:57 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:35:58 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:40:11 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:40:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BytePusher II]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39992&oldid=39991 * Javamannen * (+1799) /* More ideas (of zzo38) */ My replies regarding alternative video and audio modes 21:42:40 -!- ^v has joined. 21:42:48 -!- Sorella has joined. 21:42:48 -!- ion has joined. 21:53:35 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:53:58 -!- BeingToDeath has joined. 21:57:35 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:15:01 -!- MDude has joined. 22:16:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:30:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:34:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:49 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:38:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:38:18 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 22:44:44 -!- boily has joined. 22:44:47 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:48:18 <boily> hellørjan, Tannelle, quinthellopia, fowello, hellooodl, fungellot! 22:49:24 <shachaf> hi boily 22:50:16 <oerjan> god kveily 22:50:36 <boily> shellochellof! 22:51:22 <nooodl> hoily 22:51:33 <shachaf> yørjan 22:51:36 <boily> oerjan: hvor er du? 22:51:49 <boily> shachaf: nice one. I'll have to steal it. 22:51:52 <oerjan> trondheim hth 22:52:25 <oerjan> more precisely, in my apartment 22:52:39 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:53:12 <boily> aaaaaand once againd google translate is completely off. I input «comment ça va?», and I think I got something to the effect of “where are you?” 22:53:19 <oerjan> shalomchaf 22:53:44 <oerjan> indeed you did 22:53:49 <nooodl> maybe "how" and "where" are the same word in norsk?? 22:53:56 <oerjan> the other would be "hvordan går det?" 22:54:24 <oerjan> nooodl: only in the "how much" sense 22:54:40 <shachaf> halloerjan 22:54:50 <boily> nooodl: if how and where are the same, it must make for very interesting rounds of Cluedo! 22:57:39 <oerjan> hm it makes the same mistake if you go via english, "how are you?" -> "hvor er du?" 22:58:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Lethosor]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39993&oldid=36507 * Lethosor * (-484) blank 22:59:07 * oerjan gives gt a suggestion edit 23:00:58 <oerjan> of course this is also a phrase where translating each word literally form english to norwegian is completely wrong. interestingly, directly from french would not be. 23:01:04 <oerjan> *from 23:02:13 <FireFly> I've found that some phrases give blatantly wrong suggestions, probably because of malicious "suggestions" for better translations I suppose 23:02:44 <oerjan> well scratch that, the translation for "va" uses the entirely wrong sense of the word 23:03:49 <MDude> Just point lasers at the target of your question and display an ID card on your holo-screen while angrily beeping. 23:04:47 <MDude> Wow I thoguht I'd said something since six days ago, but I guess not. 23:11:39 -!- impomatic_ has joined. 23:13:21 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:16:16 -!- vifino has quit (Quit: Ze Cat now leaves...). 23:17:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:17:30 -!- Froox has joined. 23:17:43 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:17:50 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:20:34 <oerjan> <fizzie> And the "urban workshop" (also with 3D printers) hosted by the city library closes for summer... today. Good timing. <-- your tiny robot takeover of the world will just have to wait, alas. 23:22:35 <fizzie> Don't celebrate too early, the two other branch libraries with 3D printers (here in Espoo) seem to be open. 23:23:11 <shachaf> fizzie is taking over the world? 23:23:12 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 23:23:26 <fizzie> 7msg fungot I'll have to go to sleep now, but you keep working on the tiny killer robot design, okay? 23:23:27 <fungot> fizzie: how do you mean? don't i also have my 23:23:33 <fizzie> "Whoops." 23:23:38 <oerjan> what else would you be needing 3d printers for, duh 23:23:56 <fizzie> (G'night, folks.) 23:24:14 <shachaf> makes more sense when you see http://frontype.com/keyboarding/540px-Computer-keyboard-Sweden.svg.png hth 23:24:49 <fizzie> Oh, I guess that joke doesn't translate well. 23:25:05 <fizzie> It used to be somewhat common on Finnish IRCnet channels. 23:25:38 -!- augur has joined. 23:25:41 <shachaf> On my keyboard you can type / without pressing Shift. 23:27:11 -!- augur_ has joined. 23:27:17 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:30:15 -!- trout has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 23:31:01 <Bicyclidine> ooh, ¤ has higher priority than $ or £, eh 23:31:14 -!- variable has joined. 23:38:10 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ░▒▓█▓▒░ CHICKEN). 23:38:13 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:47:38 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:48:54 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/29i10s/the_history_of_php_archives_phar_files/ 23:49:01 <Sgeo> I...think I'm going to have nightmares 23:49:25 <Bicyclidine> You should get nightmares from popular science-fiction film "Alien" instead. 23:50:45 <Sgeo> I haven't seen popular science-fiction film "Alien" 23:51:04 -!- Froox has joined. 23:51:12 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:52:30 <Bicyclidine> well, there's your problem. 23:53:01 <Bicyclidine> it's good. sfx still hold up after the years. very straightforward: here is this freudian monster thing. it is scary. there, that's the plot. simple! 23:53:18 <Sgeo> Why does Rust both move and copy things? Why not just move? 23:53:20 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:53:33 <Sgeo> Or are variables supposed to.. hold values at one place, or something? 23:53:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:54:10 <Bicyclidine> i do not understand this line of questioning 23:55:14 <Sgeo> struct foo {blah: int8}; let x = foo {blah: 0}; let y = x; // If I understand correctly, x is dead, but its value has been copied over to y 23:56:52 <oerjan> `unidecode ░▒▓█▓▒░ 23:56:53 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+2591 LIGHT SHADE] [U+2592 MEDIUM SHADE] [U+2593 DARK SHADE] [U+2588 FULL BLOCK] [U+2593 DARK SHADE] [U+2592 MEDIUM SHADE] [U+2591 LIGHT SHADE] [U+0020 SPACE] 23:57:56 <oerjan> Bicyclidine: there is more plot than that hth 23:58:19 <Sgeo> I'm also tempted to try playing Rust-the-game