< 1403050261 570711 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1403050327 451688 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Quit: tswett < 1403053633 641885 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403053689 361720 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, somebody, there is anybody available? (Excuse me for the bad Englis...) < 1403053715 768816 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1403053765 293846 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello Bike! < 1403053844 688374 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I joined to this IRC, just because I would like to announce, that I created a new programming language, named "mau". < 1403053915 818411 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write an article for it on the wiki, probably. we get notices of wiki edits here. < 1403053921 362189 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The novatime newest, 15th release downloadable at this link: http://parancssor.info/mau/mau15release.tar.bz2 < 1403053951 978753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well we would, if HackEgo wasn't abducted by evil scientists < 1403054008 502114 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, just my biggest problem that I have very low english knowledge! I understand enough good the written english documentation, but my knowledge sure not enough good to written articles.. < 1403054051 862553 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my language is not the English, but the Hungarian. The documentation of my "mau" interpreter language is more as 200 pages in odt format. < 1403054073 684681 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be better off converting it to pdf or something < 1403054092 324104 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you may as well make a page. then people can proofread it and such < 1403054098 284703 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :your english seems pretty good to me < 1403054127 557412 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make a page on the esolang wiki -> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page < 1403054136 187070 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This language very usable for serious, daily scripting work, I use it daily, under 64 bits Linux operating system, but in the above download link available the source code, and can compile it for 32 bits systems too. < 1403054150 793978 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need to gently persuade b_jonas to translate it, should be easy -----### < 1403054187 971410 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's esoteric about it < 1403054198 383510 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, these example programs are pretty great. < 1403054231 651092 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is … actually part of the syntax? :D < 1403054307 126023 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes. seeing the esotericism < 1403054339 235026 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, friends, the parancssor.info is my own domain. The hungarian word "parancssor" mean in English: "commandline". < 1403054372 449889 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this subforum: http://parancssor.info/forum/index.php?board=20.0 is more topic with USABLE, usefull mau programs! < 1403054467 504416 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the downloadable package you can find more example programs, for ekzample the "vidir" programs in mau language! < 1403054493 257809 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original vidir written in Perl, but I created it in mau too. < 1403054581 984795 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example for a cycle in mau: {| 26 ?c #s@s[[{|}]][#c@k]; /; |} < 1403054703 369747 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The above example is a cycle, which run 26 times, and print a character in every first string from the @s stringarray. It print from every string the character which has the index in the @k unsigned char variable. < 1403054861 430735 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here are an example program whit english comments, excuse me for the bad grammar: < 1403054863 830379 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!mau // maudir program. // Author: Viola Zoltán, violazoli@gmail.com // This program created in the programming language named "mau". That programming language created by I, Viola Zoltán, too. // Licence GPL, boot. // Constans: #s@P="/tmp"; // Path for the temporary file for the editing with the text editor in the $EDITOR environment variable #c@c='-; // character for the empty spaces of pidstring #c@p=6; // max length of th < 1403054887 403225 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, not successed... too long for the IRC... < 1403055076 315204 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now I created to my forum an english section, and now already available in them the first mau example program - the vidir in mau language - with english comments! The link to this subforum: http://parancssor.info/forum/index.php?topic=121.0 < 1403055099 236962 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a page describing the language in english? < 1403055212 324688 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@madbr: sorry, not, because I not have enough good english! As I wrote above, I created now a subforum, and in that now available a long example, but I cannot translate the full >200 page documentation... < 1403055212 584222 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1403055382 86315 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, 200 pages is kinda long < 1403055398 860314 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might be cool to have just some kind of broad intro < 1403055444 268232 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If would be lot of peoples having interest to the mau language, of course I try translate the cheaf parts of the syntax, usability, other needed knowledge, but it will very bad in the English grammar, therefore I need somebody to correct my bad english text! < 1403055569 174145 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be good practice for getting better at that :D < 1403055585 533550 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This language support all types of the C, - signed/unsigned char/int/longint, float, double, long double, string, and other string designed for UTF-8 encoded characters, arrays... < 1403055653 892403 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's its design goal? < 1403055657 8237 :nooodl_!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1403055676 929963 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has lot of variants for cycles, switch, it can handle bitfields... < 1403055692 924471 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The slogan: "The programming language with efficient line noise" < 1403055695 663154 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycles? < 1403055720 584990 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycles, as ekzample "for" in the "c". < 1403055725 332512 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, loops :D < 1403055760 908432 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in the mau it is not named "for", but {| or {( or other symbol variants. < 1403055794 590126 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes, eh, English... Yes, LOOPS, f*ck my crazy mind... < 1403055820 393977 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, my english knowledge is under the ass... < 1403055959 610090 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a bit like APL? < 1403056015 730003 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :If somebody ready to correct my bad Enlglish, I translate the documentation. In this case, send me email to this: violazoli at gmail point com. < 1403056032 493341 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know APL. < 1403056084 293391 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My goal, that I have my own programming language, because I have like and interest to creating it, and that this language is a strictly type language. < 1403056085 533225 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apl is famous for using a bunch of rare hard to type characters, and having lots of special operators (for doing operations on arrays) < 1403056118 357987 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In every function strictly, which variable type usable. < 1403056149 55491 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as in the Bash or other common scripting language. My casting operator is the "#". < 1403056272 625682 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's easy to do very compact programs in apl because the operators will do whole loops for you < 1403056287 144300 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-acyptnqpjkglzisg QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1403056409 466235 :hogeyui_!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1403056429 65979 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#c = unsigned char < 1403056436 104202 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#C = signed char < 1403056444 910089 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#i = unsigned short int < 1403056452 205903 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#I = signed short int < 1403056458 51635 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#l = unsigned int < 1403056464 898698 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#L = signed int < 1403056474 258862 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#g = unsigned long long < 1403056481 110393 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#G = signed long long < 1403056485 469291 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#f = float < 1403056489 957146 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#d = double < 1403056496 423123 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#D = long double < 1403056500 656366 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#s = string < 1403056515 393587 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#u = UTF-8 encoded char < 1403056518 142864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1403056535 683459 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#U = string from UTF-8 encoded chars < 1403056556 845034 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have structs or objects? < 1403056629 775345 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, but planning. I will enlarge my language to OOP. But not now, because first I create my own regexp implementation. This will usefull and necessary to the objectorientad parts... < 1403056660 180784 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mau has function, and every function has own namespace. < 1403056692 757939 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has functions? but can you store a whole function inside a variable? < 1403056746 724416 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the mau has built-in "variables" for the directory structure, and inputfiles, outputfiles, stacks... < 1403056775 287821 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have arrays? < 1403056775 949885 :hogeyui_!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz JOIN :#esoteric < 1403056834 690778 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me I dont understand your question. Of course, variables can handle only datas. But in a #l type variable you can put a label of a function! < 1403056856 564732 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mau, almost every things can to be indirect. < 1403056943 514738 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, you has a subrutine labeled with §in. Now, yo type: #g@c=§in; And later: »#g@c; this is a jump to the label which are in the #g@c variable. Indirect jumping. < 1403056979 186794 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr means "array" as in "int x[5] = ..." in C < 1403056995 908823 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, arrays available in the mau. All single type has its arrays too. For ekzample: < 1403057012 823481 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#c@c - this is a single variable, unsigned char. < 1403057041 844989 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#c@c[index] - this is an array of unsigned chars. < 1403057060 376007 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1403057069 737983 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#s@s="This is a single string variable constans"; < 1403057071 603490 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can you change the size of arrays once they are created? < 1403057113 586613 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#s@s[[arrayindex]][stringindex] - this is a character of a string from a stringarray. < 1403057232 341380 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :After creation of the stringarray, the size not changeable yet, but if the mau community would like this possibility, I built it, no problem... :) < 1403057256 938183 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the strings automatically grow up if necessary. For ekzample: < 1403057362 515098 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#s@a="string"; This string is from 6 characters. Now you do: #s@a[8]=g; You now probed giving the "g" character to the 8th place of the string. This place momently no exist, but this is no problem, the string grow up to the 8th characters. < 1403057376 817942 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What fills the void? < 1403057477 277508 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but can you store a whole function inside a variable?" -> some languages let you do that < 1403057490 732505 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can more or less create whole new functions real time < 1403057517 930509 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the mau available 2 string types. The "common" has the #s casting operator. In the above case, the void places imply random memory trash. But the second string type, whith the #U casting operator - this is designed for the UTF-8 encoded characters - strictly fill up the void places with spaces. < 1403057679 709181 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already use the mau daily, because I use my LFS-based Linux with the DWM window manager, and I wrote/created my statusbar program in the mau. And the menu program for the DWM, exist in mau too. And my gmail watcher program is written in mau, too. And my english-hungarian dictionary too... < 1403057741 543559 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my own colored listener program in place of the "ls", written in mau, too. And the "vidir" clone in mau, too. < 1403057932 209954 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the mau has built-in QuickSort routine/function. < 1403058014 90946 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mau also PLUGINABLE! The (sorry, hungarian language...) documentation has fully knowledgebase chapter about, how can you write plugins to the mau interpreter in C/C++ language! < 1403058029 218152 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical < 1403058062 565916 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only esoteric language to have that, ever :D < 1403058069 117304 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With this methode, you can see the mau as only a skeleton to a fully-featured interpreter language, and to them you can create your OWN programming language! < 1403058116 542256 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, all/every built-in mau command/function REWRITABLE, you can redefine its token with your plugins! < 1403058218 516185 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403058222 861042 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1403058223 48172 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1403058245 467251 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me, I hope that I am no a smart alec too, but I think, that in the esoteric-group of the existing programming language, the mau is the GOD, because this is a VERY USABLE language! < 1403058276 192119 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric languages are rarely designed for usability < 1403058335 620653 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example the brainfuck? < 1403058358 33804 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the brainfuck's design goal was as small a compiler as possible. < 1403058363 873599 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise I tell you, that the mau has built-in brainfuck-interpreter too... < 1403058402 692966 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many are designed for pure mindfuck power, to expand your mind on what can be a computer language < 1403058422 131661 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck is interest, yes. But Not usable for the daily work. I like it, but not usable for a fast scripting work. The mau yes. < 1403058449 768643 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite in this "mind expanding" category is unlambda: http://esolangs.org/wiki/unlambda < 1403058537 460708 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but my goal was not the mind expanding. I am a novelist. And for my sci-fi stories needed a new programming language. I created it. And, I planned it that it should be an usable tool for my daily linux work too. < 1403058582 647078 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numeric constans in the mau: < 1403058594 759496 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :begin 0-9: decimal constans < 1403058606 192224 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :begin with o or O: octal constans < 1403058630 909247 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :begin with $: hexadecimal, for ekzample #fc or $FCe2 < 1403058650 939515 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as 0 isn't used as the octal indicator I'm happy. < 1403058654 803665 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :begin with %: binary constans. %10111011101 < 1403058657 162153 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tw < 1403058667 655071 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah does anyone still use octal? < 1403058676 209019 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yes < 1403058683 679609 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod 644 < 1403058684 436461 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. numbers starting with 0 being octal is obnoxious, is all. < 1403058689 432879 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah chmod < 1403058713 799563 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcd....xABCD...X: an unsigned character, the ASCII code of the character. < 1403058716 969578 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah starting with 0 producing octal is like... automatic non-obvious bugs < 1403058724 43884 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FossilCodger: not unicode? < 1403058733 695580 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1403058768 591990 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said "ASCII code". < 1403058779 459111 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unicode sequences is multibytes. < 1403058787 997875 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. < 1403058793 438016 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I already understand your question! < 1403058845 115600 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#c@c=a; - in this case you give the ASCII code of "a" to the unsigned char variable named @c. < 1403058925 328942 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :#u@a="ω"; - in this case you give to the UTF-8 character variable named @a, the byte sequences of the UTF-8 encoded multibyte character ω. < 1403058927 246563 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1403058983 741900 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was I able to copy/paste an image? < 1403058991 4111 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when does img's alt do that? < 1403059022 349873 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a square < 1403059025 345672 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rectangle < 1403059030 432365 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot give to you answer, I am newbie in the IRC. < 1403059074 535368 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This can to be a function name in the mau: < 1403059075 633480 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :„ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ” // Om Ma Ni Pe Me Hung < 1403059103 443929 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can see, the function names can has any UTF-8 encoded characters. < 1403059114 723411 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that is a vulcan hand salute < 1403059127 551266 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :vulcans have weird hands. < 1403059202 773377 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function names should give between the „ and ” symbols. < 1403059215 100045 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28czh2/announcing_unicode_70/ < 1403059233 346574 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ekzample, a function named with the Sarasvati hindu godness, mahadevi: < 1403059233 638705 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :„सरस्वती” < 1403059293 781647 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a function, named (dedicated) the Loved One singerin, the hebrew Ofra Haza: < 1403059295 13119 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :„עפרה חזה” // Ofra Haza függvénye < 1403059311 696927 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all are valid function names in the mau. < 1403059316 76893 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+F809324230B034C43DA9123880EE8034588A8340994858CFD841351: BEAR JUGGLING SIX DIFFERENTLY-SIZED MELONS WHILE WEARING BEANIE WITH LOPSIDED PROPELLER < 1403059440 744106 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok Chrome, you obviously have a font that supports PILE OF POO because that's exactly what I see in my address bar right now < 1403059475 372667 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Levitating man... superfluous. The Unicode implement all useless shit. < 1403059644 546182 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode committee is untrustly, the 4 bytes will not enough lot, because I see the all superfluous trash will implemented to the unicode. < 1403059711 538595 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the point of utf-8 was not fixing a length. < 1403059753 193662 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric : < FossilCodger> First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode < 1403059757 212499 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1403059768 914536 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode committee is untrustly, the 4 bytes will not enough lot, because I see the all superfluous trash will implemented to the unicode. < 1403059790 370811 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 is novatimes max 4 bytes, but in the first time it was 6 bytes planned. < 1403059824 934025 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UTF-8 structure can expandable to maximum 8 bytes, as I know. < 1403059854 772982 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "novatimes" should be adopted as an actual english word. < 1403059877 303639 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it mean, i can't tell < 1403059880 42101 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now"? < 1403059885 240654 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a medicine brand < 1403059894 153067 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this times. < 1403059948 801216 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"these days"? < 1403059991 433127 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :novatimes=nowadays, recently < 1403060021 688503 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1403060072 30543 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mau can special variables for the benchmarks, too. < 1403060075 417051 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good word. < 1403060090 317036 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did we find this guy? < 1403060102 776887 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they came in a few hours ago to talk about t heir esolang. < 1403060118 797140 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just logged on and started talking yes < 1403060132 35172 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am here yet. < 1403060179 862030 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just I have lot of difficulity in the English, I am sorry & excuse me. < 1403060211 216403 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem < 1403060321 265119 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the mau has the "test" function of the bash, too. < 1403060334 74426 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the mau can handle streams, too. < 1403060381 403982 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ekzample, you can open a file in the memory (RAM), you write to them the records, and if finish, you handle the memory area as a string... < 1403060466 933419 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This mau command: ||| #s@a t; cut the @a string to parts into the string-array named "t". < 1403060511 541159 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(This is akin function to the "tr"...) < 1403060693 179648 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, guys, has the esolangs community an own forum? < 1403060763 872704 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if not, I welcome open in my forum a part for the eso languages. This domain paid for the next 5 years already... < 1403060837 854072 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to have a forum. now we just use the wiki < 1403060969 310952 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay Elliot, then, if you think that this is a good idea, write to the wiki please, that the official forum of the esolangs is in the parancssor.info/forum/... - to the "..." I write the name what you would like, and open that subforum now! < 1403061201 731361 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The heck...? http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/28ffsc/world_cup_json_rails_backend_for_a_scraper_that/ < 1403061208 90376 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was that posted to /r/Python < 1403062162 131172 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodbye, I logout! < 1403062200 406947 :FossilCodger!473a5848@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.58.88.72 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1403062224 818294 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Go uses global variables a bunch by default < 1403062231 810247 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And was just told 'you don't have to use them' < 1403062621 526979 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And possibly most don't use the default global variables, but it's still concerning) < 1403063523 502516 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1403063794 525814 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1403063806 115836 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the cool thing to put in a fungeroid < 1403063855 459485 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to be hard to have a "write to program/read from program at X/Y" instruction tho < 1403063898 452174 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it takes a line number for Y and a string for X < 1403063932 539121 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how 16-bit samples are stored in a .XM music? < 1403064055 677342 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1403064184 161939 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read the specs for XM < 1403064213 236469 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for s3m and IT there's a table of pointers to sample headers in the file header < 1403064257 644590 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember what IT does from there but for s3m this header contains a pointer to the sample data < 1403064280 217679 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1403064373 287389 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember if the sample data was unsigned or signed but I think it's the reverse from the usual < 1403064396 974972 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and might be different between 8 and 16 bits) < 1403064862 519487 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-42-208.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1403064951 351478 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The specs for XM do have a few things missing actually but I have been able to fill in those missing things. Someone else already made a version with many mistakes corrected, but still has a few mistakes. I know where samples are stored, but not the format of 16-bit samples. < 1403064965 384215 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit samples in XM are encoded as delta values. < 1403065500 498797 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-35-118.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403065981 892406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to extend AmigaMML with such feature. < 1403066109 980698 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want to add a percussion synthesizer; do you have advice how to do such a things? < 1403066183 763235 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how realistic you want it to be < 1403066219 170013 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what hardware you're targetting < 1403066286 402481 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :drums are essentially a large impulse + some noise going through a whole bunch of bandpass filters (like 40 bandpass filters in parallel) < 1403066298 583582 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care much to be realistic but want it good quality nevertheless. < 1403066349 53487 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kick can be done with essentially a wave going down in pitch fast < 1403066413 163897 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihat is a mess of high frequencies... on an FM synth you can do them by setting osc frequencies super high and playing some ridiculously high note and letting it create some frequency mess due to aliasing... but this doesn't work on non-fm synths < 1403066426 402643 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, just some noise isn't bad < 1403066484 602392 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :snare is kinda touchy, it needs some lower frequency thump (essentially low frequency noice) BEFORE the high frequency SHHH from the snares < 1403066522 900190 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they cannot happen at the same time, it's thump THEN the Shhhh part < 1403066555 540893 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on C64 they do this by using one channel and alternating it between a wave (usually square) and noise < 1403066568 728737 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kindof a tone sequencer < 1403066572 743718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, although FM synthesis is actually also one of the synthesizers I intend to add. The two I have already implemented are simple waveforms (a sum of square waves (adjustable duty), saw, and triangle), and PADsynth (full the amplitude table with a sum of bell curves, the phase table with random values, and then perform an inverse Fourier transform), and the two I plan to add are FM synth and percussion synth. < 1403066611 960082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can already load external samples, but I also want to allow the .MML text file to be able to stand alone. < 1403066614 893358 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this page has some more ideas: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb02/articles/synthsecrets0202.asp < 1403066624 387042 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1403066661 405559 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially every drum is its own special snowflake < 1403067065 185325 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda! < 1403067090 195694 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-35-118.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't hear their shapes < 1403067837 551172 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1403068613 426278 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403069724 504620 :tertu!~tertu@184-97-163-186.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403071608 847016 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if Go's defer has any advantages over Haskell solutions to similar problems < 1403071624 651741 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's more explicit that something will be closed, rather than being implied by the usage < 1403071901 933048 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once used the (just) overtone scale in writing music. < 1403072389 73311 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :*.net *.split < 1403072389 260544 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1403072628 680373 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403072632 463725 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1403072632 651060 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1403072654 92154 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1403072779 986926 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403072862 112351 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1403072879 478356 :MoALTz_!~no@user-46-112-93-173.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1403072993 808300 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403073100 640648 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1403074336 852505 :irenge!~octav@41-139-172-202.safaricombusiness.co.ke JOIN :#esoteric < 1403074437 501818 :tertu!~tertu@184-97-163-186.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1403075474 903006 :nooodl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1403075966 92105 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in today's issue of things that would not be necessary if Go had generics: https://github.com/justinas/alice < 1403076279 678382 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks a lot like (.) < 1403076506 100054 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It petty much is, except iiuc you can't really write a typesafe (.) < 1403076584 3745 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Matt Silverlock's use.go snippet came closest to what I wanted. My only complaint is that the ordering of handlers here is counter-intuitive. Reading the chaining code makes it obvious that < 1403076587 969821 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :use(myApp, csrf, logging, recovery) < 1403076590 515137 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is equivalent to this code: < 1403076593 11674 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :recovery(logging(csrf(myApp))) < 1403076595 501855 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this request cycle: < 1403076598 34386 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :recovery -> logging -> csrf -> myApp < 1403076600 512551 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a reversed order from what you've written in your code." < 1403076603 15682 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, the opposite complaint people make about (.) < 1403077243 567657 :password2!~password@197.78.178.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403079923 899699 :irenge!~octav@41-139-172-202.safaricombusiness.co.ke QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403080487 919624 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1403080665 894113 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1403080666 82117 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1403080940 94236 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1403082236 257699 :password2!~password@197.78.178.204 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403083237 503751 :password2!~password@197.78.195.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403083319 661540 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1403084061 396388 :impomatic!~chatzilla@84.93.80.151 QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807] < 1403084080 654659 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403084168 475036 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1403085707 439383 :brandonsons|2!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403085955 655562 :brandonsons!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1403086346 544041 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help I am being attacked by imposter syndrome < 1403086474 432167 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403086564 37524 :password2!~password@197.78.195.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403086721 217669 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: Help, I have imposter syndrome. < 1403086728 397523 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, please press 1. < 1403086731 783174 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, please press 2. < 1403086748 609861 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1403086755 447143 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 probably < 1403086758 74727 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :To ask for information about how much this call costs, press 3. < 1403086764 43865 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :To donate 1 Mio. dollar press 4. < 1403086785 992895 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To donate using what account? < 1403086818 488003 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got 90% on a programming theory exam and I don't feel like I deserve it when one of my friends failed it < 1403086822 982019 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Push 0 (OPER) < 1403086826 317253 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be charged to your IRC bill < 1403086839 407247 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, he didn't fail it < 1403086846 53172 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that makes me feel better :) < 1403086870 903083 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should you don't feel like you deserve it if one of your friends failed it? < 1403086905 394723 :nooodl_!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1403086918 840594 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, because I think he's a better programmer than I am < 1403086937 940919 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you're mistaken about his skills then. < 1403086941 944285 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or he had a bad day. < 1403086973 871937 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Did you cheat on the test? < 1403086990 28124 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: O, OK. Well, but it might not necessarily have to do with the exam. < 1403086998 7850 :kyhwana!kyhwana@snowleopard.kyhwana.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :/w/w 6 < 1403087000 195031 :kyhwana!kyhwana@snowleopard.kyhwana.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrf < 1403087012 152917 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people who cheat on tests don't deserve to pass them. < 1403087045 44026 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, I did not cheat on the test < 1403087067 870079 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had I would have got more than 90%, or I would have thought 90% was high enough to be suspicious and got less than 90% < 1403087083 893894 :nooodl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403087110 325264 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd care about your mark being suspicious if you cheat to good? < 1403087134 839241 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it's susicious. If they can't prove it, they can't get you ;P < 1403087138 644343 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suspicious < 1403087143 461064 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1403087184 813708 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if it's not suspicious they won't look so hard < 1403087201 877825 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would they look at? < 1403087205 936494 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You already wrote the test? < 1403087233 821529 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1403087238 95665 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not clever enough to cheat < 1403087239 771550 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't do anything once you've left the exam room I think < 1403087257 650890 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'd be clever enough < 1403087266 161259 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd be a nervous wreck the whole exam < 1403087278 927286 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My body would literally be shaking if I were to cheat < 1403087334 697228 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have only twice tried to cheat on a test. In one case it was on paper, and I tried to use a "coughing code" to tell everyone else in the room, the answers. Since I have not told anyone about this ahead of time, I don't think anyone knew (and the teacher ask if I needed some water to drink). The other is on computer; once I reached the final question I tried to cheat off of the person next to me, who as it turned out was trying to cheat off of me < 1403087379 492102 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have pretty poor luck at cheating < 1403087418 513821 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too scared to cheat :( < 1403087444 688379 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the first case I described, I didn't really do it to cheat, but because I wanted to figure out if it is possible and what the reactions are! < 1403087892 212580 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never did my homework, so i said "x equals 5", it was in 90% of all cases acceptable by my math teacher < 1403087917 109468 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~KingOfKar@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had to say the results < 1403088003 986966 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way university maths questions are marked is: < 1403088020 867503 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :- look at the start, see if it makes sense < 1403088028 292648 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :- look at the end, see if the result is correct < 1403088043 851366 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :- assume the middle is sound and award full marks < 1403088531 15156 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.xkcd.com/759/ < 1403088551 135804 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose title text is "Handy exam trick: when you know the answer but not the correct derivation, derive blindly forward from the givens and backward from the answer, and join the chains once the equations start looking similar. Sometimes the graders don't notice the seam." < 1403088637 881214 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially on multiple-choice tests I did sometimes work backward from the answer. < 1403088926 866164 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/602-Test-Time.html < 1403089394 633534 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: *fwomp* < 1403089442 602594 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm kinda counting on that :) < 1403089458 740404 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although our math lecturer does a better job than that < 1403089462 694647 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :My result was correct < 1403089491 539617 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he said I made an assumption that just coincidentally lead me to the correct result < 1403089491 539855 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, it's wrong :) < 1403089609 216409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I have done this kind of "short-circuit" test < 1403089796 567010 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff written on that article is good < 1403089849 754738 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can an exam be racially biased o_O < 1403089858 900605 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they ask questions only white people can answer < 1403090062 163518 :jj2baile!~jon@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1403090073 99065 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1403090081 853355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :short-circuiting < 1403090088 512493 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought everybody does that too anyway < 1403090113 603416 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1403090153 455753 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are even questions where you can say "Well, I don't know the exact answer, but I know it can't be B,C,D so the only option left is A anyway) < 1403090185 596605 :jj2baile!~jon@corn-syrup.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1403090203 142141 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1403090246 159443 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, my multiple choice exams have all had E) None of the above :( < 1403090319 119945 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I were a teacher I'd do that too < 1403090347 428375 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And like 3 questions were E! < 1403090371 758137 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also F) I don't know < 1403090374 910049 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and punish mistakes ;) < 1403090397 560103 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes multiple choice questions actually harder < 1403090402 834985 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although everybode seems to think they are easier < 1403090412 733076 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only don't you get the point for the question < 1403090415 497732 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also LOOSE one < 1403090428 378091 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not knowing an answer correctly costs you two points instead of just one < 1403090477 729656 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather it's not a multiple choice question and just loose a single point for not knowing it correctly < 1403090488 423304 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes dereferencing syntax in C++ or perl reminds me to the intercal rabbit ear syntax < 1403090552 520631 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: A funny variation is actually < 1403090557 474365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How many options are correct?" < 1403090599 363537 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of marking the correct options you just have to write how many of them are correct < 1403090635 359771 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :A) 1 B) 2 C) 3 or less D) all of the above < 1403091189 746042 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1403091195 813112 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if A,B are true < 1403091197 644108 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :C must be too < 1403091207 502803 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i C is true < 1403091211 38119 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and A B < 1403091212 378359 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then B too < 1403091220 468935 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*D < 1403091556 839921 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be more precise, I meant: A) exactly 1, B) exactly 2, C) 3 or less, D) all of the above < 1403091627 840691 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :E) 31604,10001,714,108 < 1403091648 334367 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1403091652 499749 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is 3 or less < 1403091677 577335 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the question is "how many options are correct?" < 1403091693 990799 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1403091694 991080 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the desired outcome is that there is no consistent set of answers. < 1403091701 704222 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1403091932 31548 :Sgeo_!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403093250 870436 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1403093346 206179 :Guest767!dlopen@libdl.so NICK :Gregor < 1403093459 234938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1403093820 680462 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this much good so far? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gentzen#Typeclass_definition_syntax < 1403094514 649679 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1403094526 909716 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1403096581 964492 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1403096716 30591 :lollo64it!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1403096741 841976 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1403097530 447358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : [...] Since I have not told anyone about this ahead of time, I don't think anyone knew [...] <-- i'm going to guess that anyone intelligent enough to guess you were doing a code and figuring it out didn't need your help anyway. < 1403098212 956147 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403098225 350349 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1403101941 570678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1403102044 2529 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1403102163 871208 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1403102897 500414 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403102897 687940 :tswett!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1403102897 688076 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1403103038 817153 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1403103470 567171 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-35-118.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1403103558 108741 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There doesn't appear to be a JavaScript Unix password cracker anywhere :-( < 1403103573 810574 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-61-225.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403103707 696821 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running John the Ripper... < 1403103710 656432 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcry:BbDSwh.NQHGj6:1004:102:Cray Analyst:/u/gcry:/bin/sh < 1403104362 217438 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you do javascript? < 1403104369 685790 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need speed for password cracking < 1403104703 108750 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1403104709 480709 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :But JavaScript has 2× the performance of native applications. http://fratti.ch/2webscale4u/ < 1403104835 344841 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403105280 306270 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot should have a cracker < 1403105424 181913 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`crack cray:1zd8eAacKa9J6:101:17:Cray:/usr/cray: < 1403105514 784748 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot should have a person of Caucasian descent < 1403105809 96921 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1403107361 569734 :lollo64it!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1403108341 343534 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't accept the premisse that anything that is interpreted can possibly run faster than native code < 1403108358 592118 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't acept the premisse that anything executed on a vm can possibly run faster than native code < 1403108403 507136 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless < 1403108407 75681 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :does 2x the speed mean < 1403108419 459319 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if native takes 2s then it takes 4s? < 1403108492 927667 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, an amazing interpreter can beat native code generated by a crap compiler < 1403108506 601849 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1403108513 132426 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nobody said anything about that < 1403108519 723795 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs twice as fast as native code < 1403108531 497169 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that said about? < 1403108572 498770 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :being faster than native code means for me, that you are faster than the CPU can execute code < 1403108701 304650 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway < 1403108712 272065 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look at that webscalability < 1403108714 790303 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just wow < 1403108765 351267 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1403108790 58768 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that webpage has apparentely been seized by some federal agency of some country . < 1403109094 462631 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do a mockup. < 1403109240 180135 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, css shadows on body text :-( < 1403109305 947819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shady characters < 1403110342 654317 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mroman.ch/ngbl/ < 1403110960 27134 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1403112033 659517 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Quit: tswett < 1403113095 219596 :password2!~password@197.78.186.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403113455 601327 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1403113460 502972 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably replace : with IS < 1403114125 931577 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1403114143 879835 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403114394 855339 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1403114493 34307 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now with EXISTS, IS and ASSIGNED_TO < 1403114515 551568 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of these passwords are cracking really easily. service -> smile : shutdown -> bedtime and a few user passwords like mary, tricia, etc. < 1403114615 623057 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor passwords, considering the password file is from a Ministry of Defence machine :-) They should know better. < 1403114804 401995 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that's not your job and your bragging about it on the IRC < 1403114810 259283 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're < 1403114839 589513 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1403114842 611647 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bragging < 1403114852 952635 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's plaudern in english < 1403114880 937091 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bragging/chatting < 1403114975 942913 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1403115008 940562 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :chatting < 1403115027 367668 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "bragging" connotation that I'm aware of. < 1403115043 174314 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1403115053 19505 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1403115059 508476 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that bragging is the wrong word < 1403115061 90790 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should stop replying to the last thing said without reading context. < 1403115071 877837 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Don't worry < 1403115076 382135 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to do that a lot too :D < 1403115097 231673 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :tltr < 1403115099 301163 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy to read < 1403115111 465830 :nooodl_!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be NICK :fcrawl < 1403115315 292692 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1403115334 171611 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: no, don't work for the MoD. Bought an ex-MOD computer which hasn't been wiped and trying to find the root password so I can use it properly. < 1403115421 328367 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... what? When's this thing from? < 1403115458 109960 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd like to have root access to your long range missiles. < 1403115540 284378 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or a little house in some neat state . < 1403115546 444620 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1403115581 117137 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wyoming sounds nice < 1403115682 515565 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bought about a dozen ex MoD computers a few years ago. I've only just got this one back. (It's too big, so I had to put it in storage for a while until I got the garage converted into an office) < 1403115708 154960 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are pretty old I assume? < 1403115712 905680 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :1990? < 1403115716 318669 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or pre 90? < 1403115724 760518 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just surprised they don't wipe everything as a matter of policy < 1403115736 269741 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1403115739 445633 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy to do < 1403115746 636542 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even little companies do that < 1403115788 862594 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hoiwlyfukfewpabn JOIN :#esoteric < 1403115801 354627 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're assuming the military is more competent than the average company < 1403115808 492776 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1403115810 151151 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1403115812 50501 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah? < 1403115822 377905 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman aren't you american < 1403115826 972350 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what a normal non-us-citizen like me would think < 1403115829 221310 :fcrawl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman is swiss right < 1403115832 858661 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh darn < 1403115846 203105 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that america is the only country in the world where things are bad < 1403115854 109150 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suspect it's not much more secure here ;) < 1403115872 845230 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i was just asking cos i'd give the example of http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/17/usa.oliverburkeman1 < 1403115873 313859 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've heard something like that < 1403115892 900913 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I just commit some kind of poe's law of smoke europeanism < 1403115900 388155 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1403115901 425536 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :smug. < 1403115907 475451 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how I got "smoke" out of that. < 1403115921 765676 :fcrawl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :smoke europeanism everyday < 1403115922 112112 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i would have expected the military to do something else if they don't follow basic security, like for example, just explode them < 1403115934 267585 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dump them in the ocean, a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHASE < 1403115979 825823 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :US nuclear weapons found out to actually just be old fireworks in fancy containers < 1403116168 803212 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was explaining fission bombs yesterday and it was kind of awkward having to say that it basically boils down to hitting plutonium really hard < 1403116707 691460 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1403116733 816327 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403117235 374716 :password2!~password@197.78.186.103 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1403117380 151785 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: they range from mid 80's to mid 90's. They range from a BBC Micro with some kind of 32-bit co-processor to an 8 processor Cray. < 1403117469 269503 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The place I bought them had an entire warehouse of various computers / minis / mainframes. I wish I could've bought more. < 1403117539 127818 :barrucadu!~barrucadu@fsf/member/barrucadu NICK :c5sper < 1403117560 763140 :c5sper!~barrucadu@fsf/member/barrucadu NICK :barrucadu < 1403118010 377731 :password2!~password@197.78.166.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403120334 921888 :Froox!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1403120349 65194 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403120961 368119 :password2!~password@197.78.166.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1403121039 557059 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1403121156 593441 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully your cracking the passwords on the cray < 1403121255 129559 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :two days and I'm through with my final exams < 1403121259 212143 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if I pass :D < 1403121408 667969 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're < 1403121436 425597 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far the "don't learn" strategy went well < 1403121517 699418 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1403121533 907215 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1403121561 938944 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you not learn < 1403121575 65485 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's mostly boring bullshit < 1403121653 655027 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you're not paying too much, then. < 1403121667 594554 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 900 CHF a semester < 1403121686 22319 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403121708 750499 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you wouldn't really have a choice even it cost more ;) < 1403121713 154271 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :+if < 1403121747 56869 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ridiculously specific stuff they'll ask < 1403121759 956467 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... what policy is needed to create a JAAS LoginContext < 1403121778 289287 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm so glad I quit CS. < 1403121782 264219 :fcrawl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :i WISH i knew what my exam questions are going to be like < 1403121790 421242 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: a JAASLoginContextPolicy? < 1403121806 582592 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't bother memorizing all those things < 1403121823 134628 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to learn the documentation of some Java Interface < 1403121828 900381 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemistry involves an annoying amount of memorization but at least it'll be most of the same memorization as fifty years ago. < 1403121834 152648 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope that the lecturer included enough information about that interface in his slide < 1403121839 499160 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I can bring the slides to the exam) < 1403121852 349660 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'll just look-up stuff on the slides during the exam as I need to < 1403121873 226501 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also not under the control of some megacorp, much as Dow would like. < 1403121877 807786 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have bad luck, he'll ask stuff he only mentioned in the lectures and did not document in the slides < 1403121880 837146 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'm screwed < 1403121952 644602 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something that was only mentioned in some exercises < 1403121953 170599 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403121992 570766 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how it would make me a better computer scientist by memorizing all the stupid shit they teach < 1403121996 411240 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't < 1403122078 495448 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds to me like your program might not be CS at all < 1403122131 678662 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. but they bloat it up with lots of java specific stuff < 1403122137 46174 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other stuff < 1403122152 521014 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not interested in that < 1403122168 655931 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how will you be enterprise pro? < 1403122186 166991 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than memorizing the java compiler's command line options I'd like to learn something about type theory < 1403122201 41637 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :For god's sake < 1403122201 872265 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@69.166.35.231 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1403122211 311755 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the purpose of learning the java compiler's command line options < 1403122218 739185 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1403122220 179054 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's none < 1403122234 912280 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, say you want to compile java < 1403122238 63091 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to just learn abstract nonsense? but how will you ever *do* anything without knowing how to invoke javac? < 1403122256 323005 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a freaking manual for it somewhere < 1403122273 241055 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So when you go make Java with a bunch of bullies they won't bother you for checking the manual every once in a while. < 1403122303 222677 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the rare cases you actually alter the javac command line by much < 1403122305 923154 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll look it up < 1403122318 119937 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by hand < 1403122324 584230 :fcrawl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds sorta, "why bother learning arithmetic if there's calculators"!! < 1403122328 637588 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1403122359 436763 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you trying to say that Java is a fundamental a concept as arithmatic? < 1403122364 342135 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as < 1403122368 784466 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more like "why bother learning arithmetic if there's a book about that documents how that works" < 1403122377 902533 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm. there is < 1403122386 160860 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are... there are lots of books about arithmetic, mroman < 1403122392 13252 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1403122399 239982 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a difference imo. < 1403122415 677729 :fcrawl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write a book about arithmetic < 1403122417 178557 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... but you just analogised it to that. like, yourself. you made that comparison < 1403122426 238947 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1403122456 643864 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to learn stuff < 1403122460 139549 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not memorize stuff < 1403122499 812306 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired of memorizing the syntax of a programming language every semester and then have a final exam about where you have to find the 10 syntax errors he's hidden < 1403122503 238630 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, learning the details of Java in a computer science course sounds like learning the details of a particular make of car in a physics class. < 1403122518 302 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just not what it's for. < 1403122537 182264 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok as much as we all want to be little dijkstras, do you really want CS classes that involve: no touching computers; writing programs < 1403122541 182136 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tired of memorizing what Exceptions some Java Function throws < 1403122550 909146 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, do you think CS graduates should not know how to implement algorithms < 1403122572 88891 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They should know how to implement algorithms. < 1403122585 722193 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1403122651 555441 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's a difference between teaching OOP through Java < 1403122676 731595 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not defending your curriculum, I just think your broader position is untenable < 1403122685 870188 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and forcing your students to remember that notify() can throw a IllegalMonitorStateExecption < 1403122698 875359 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one teaches concepts < 1403122726 536891 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think a CS curriculum should be theory divorced from practice as much as I don't think it should be practice divorced from theory. < 1403122727 525592 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not touching comptuers at all is one thing, but Java can be a bit far in the other extreme. < 1403122737 499758 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one teaches where the nut A1241 is located in a Boing 717 < 1403122772 788249 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. I mean, I wouldn't pick Java. but it's probably not that bad a choice: it's incredibly popular, and has just enough abstraction to be able to actually implement things and not worry about memory safety. it's the least common denominator. it's certainly a shame, though < 1403122800 129994 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not about the language choice actually < 1403122809 418952 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's more about what makes more sense teaching < 1403122828 416487 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's incredibly popular for reasons that have nothing to do with its sutability for CS classes. < 1403122846 874388 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying Java is a bad choice to teach < 1403122869 172960 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: can we somehow teach students not to crank out shitty papers for the sake of cranking out shitty papers? < 1403122874 415568 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: yes, but you know, grounding the lessons in what they have a good chance of using day-to-day afterwards isn't really that bad an idea. < 1403122889 23452 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :At that point, that you list three exceptions < 1403122899 269491 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ask your students which one of those are built-in in python < 1403122902 35263 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've gone to far < 1403122908 596864 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1403122913 752206 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my point < 1403122959 703669 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1403123063 894680 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: how about the type of exam where I give a short program with one or two plausible errors (ones that I could make when writing the program) AND the compiler error messages (from a sane compiler with sane switches) which actually explain the errors, and the students have to understand what the compiler says and tell how to fix those one or two errors? < 1403123143 932132 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that'd be ok < 1403123152 334953 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no black/white I think < 1403123164 706964 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you need multiple types of questions on the exam < 1403123174 526355 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading error messages is a sorely lacking skill in my experience, they should teach that in school < 1403123193 250065 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it's important to be able to understand compiler messages from a sane compiler < 1403123210 100292 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this requires that you use a language that has a compiler that usually gives sane error messages < 1403123221 951744 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1403123231 940202 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of my bias due to frustration ;) < 1403123248 855170 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :already being very nimble in lot of programming languages < 1403123277 795339 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It drives you mad to memorize what exceptions are built-in to yet another language that happens to be taught at the university < 1403123337 73635 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to know a lot of details like that about other languages < 1403123349 610729 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not the one they decided to teach thoroughly at their university < 1403123416 819134 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not entirely bad though < 1403123422 66296 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can list it on your CV < 1403123426 714563 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you are now fluent in Java too < 1403123437 987006 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: besides reading the error messages, one thing I tried to teach the students is how to debug a program by inserting printf statements to print intermediate results and check manually whether they look right < 1403123463 619391 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just isn't what I expected from my tsudy < 1403123465 259515 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*study < 1403123470 889943 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all :) < 1403123482 908107 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: "teach"? < 1403123488 751452 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably the most obvious thing to do ever < 1403123495 391562 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even easier than handling gdb < 1403123523 159697 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "tried"? < 1403123524 799028 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: yes. I'm mentioning the highlights here, mind you, my courses very very lousy in general. < 1403123533 15634 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tried" kinda has the conotation that it didn't work out well? :D < 1403123568 208468 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell how it worked out really < 1403123628 828021 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1403123640 319022 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :those courses weigh my conscience a bit because I might have made those mathematicians hate programming for ever, < 1403123643 650696 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes experience and exercises to debug well < 1403123666 454009 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though luckily it was the course for second year students where I did really badly, and second-years are supposed to be more resistant to bad teachers hopefully < 1403123669 799435 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I notice how some people are so convinced that the error must be somewhere around line X < 1403123677 808574 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without having actual evidence that it's there < 1403123682 814784 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1403123684 767009 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just have a hunch or I don't know < 1403123701 211908 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they are so focused on that they don't actually check what's really going on < 1403123710 961632 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one interesting episode is when I was called to find the error in a student's program, and I debugged it for like five minutes and couldn't find it, < 1403123719 326761 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at which point I asked for help on irc, < 1403123731 390702 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turned out the error was a semicolon after the closing paren of a for statement < 1403123747 67570 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably didn't notice that because that's a mistake I personally would not make < 1403123772 890092 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1403123775 290628 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I should have noticed it from the symptoms, because I did trace the execution and did see that the loop body didn't run enough times for some reason < 1403123775 477869 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once wrote < 1403123780 975607 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(foo); dooBar(); < 1403123788 977897 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a new line in between) < 1403123807 160611 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they obvious thing to do, when dooBar() isn't executed when you expect is < 1403123810 308367 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to rewrite it as < 1403123820 68383 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :print foo < 1403123836 233043 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(foo); dooBar < 1403123861 574489 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that checks if you programmed the condition write < 1403123881 8117 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it prints true but dooBar isn't executed < 1403123882 971203 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I'd have noticed it eventually. This was during a course so I was pressed for time and chose to ask a second pair of eyes for speedup, which was the right decision I think. < 1403123888 156776 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's most likely a damn semicolon somewhere :D < 1403123938 388211 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my own code, I'm more affraid of making the opposite mistake: adding an if condition, then getting distracted and forgetting to add a body, so it scopes the next statement which should always be executed < 1403123993 878869 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this reason I try to type a {} right after the closing paren of the condition unless I can type the first token of the body like immediately in the next second < 1403124009 362595 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I should write {} _before_ I write the closing paren < 1403124125 62791 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like how you should never type 'rm *.o' in the shell left to right, for a mistake can turn it to 'rm *' -- you should either write it as '#rm *.o' then erase the '#', or write 'rm .o' then add the splat < 1403124154 315022 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, type 'echo rm -v *.o', execute it, check the result, then remove the echo and re-run < 1403124335 320816 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just keep backups :P < 1403124368 967798 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AND < 1403124371 770088 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do both < 1403124387 206404 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep the .o files in a separate directory < 1403124399 24993 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and remove them with 'make clear' < 1403124409 681725 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: if you limit the work you can lose, then the low probability of the mistake weighted against the loss it'll incur is outweighed by the loss in productivity caused by being paranoid about everything you do < 1403124422 385758 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly try 'make -n clear' first, though make -n isn't a sure-fire way to do nothing < 1403124422 573121 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everythi < 1403124424 441025 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ng has a cost < 1403124430 773812 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "clear"? that makes sense but I have never seen that spelling afaik < 1403124439 374777 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure, I'm always paranoid < 1403124448 845010 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: 'make clean' sorry < 1403124463 429606 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: right. so you're losing more work than you would with being fast but with very good backups < 1403124479 859709 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're missing out on all the potential work you could do by effectively having more time and worrying less about deleting things < 1403124489 291150 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1403124493 527413 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1403124599 602773 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess this is just another form of "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" < 1403124683 421439 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a strange interpretation of this latter statement < 1403124690 928608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1403124743 853977 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgiveness i.e. "oops, I made a mistake and deleted all my files, please undo" < 1403124764 585244 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :permission i.e. "please figure out whether I am competent enough to be deleting the right files" :) < 1403124783 458747 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :permission -- check then do; forgiveness -- do then potentially recover < 1403124884 45407 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1403124912 149130 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think recovering a backup might take more time than typing a bit weird every once in a while for a specific command. < 1403124967 821231 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :gn8 < 1403124991 460386 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think, though, that if you use 'rm *.o' a lot and worry about mistakinly pressing enter early, you could just make a script that does nothing but run 'rm *.o' < 1403125001 793611 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDude: yeah, unfortunately our undo buttons aren't that great yet. this is a perennial UI problem. however, there are rather convenient things (btrfs snapshots, say) where it's really no big deal < 1403125011 199022 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that's why python has indentation :) < 1403125013 269129 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And give it a short name. < 1403125016 592863 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixes a lot of these problems :D < 1403125017 226336 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for a rather common method of backing up code against rm *: git reset --hard < 1403125057 778367 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, I don't personally make that mistake anywhere near often enough to care much about the hardship of restoring afterwards... < 1403125072 249354 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obv. the solution is to switch to the fossil filesystem. < 1403125084 489819 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that would be nice. have you seen NILFS? < 1403125230 186072 :MDude!~fyrc@or-67-238-17-218.dhcp.embarqhsd.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's been a while since I went around looking at filesystems. < 1403125324 905257 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1403125740 719371 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1403126847 869803 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1403126995 173135 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403127423 991142 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403127722 343358 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1403127974 173096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1403128584 976392 :fcrawl!~nooodl@77.104-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1403128675 856925 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403129196 927337 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403129685 239820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :bohily < 1403129801 151955 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boerjansoir. < 1403129838 575143 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-61-225.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :gesundhello < 1403129915 196235 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403129916 37754 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar CYUL < 1403129916 769602 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 182200Z 29014G20KT 30SM FEW040TCU BKN090 OVC240 24/14 A2986 RMK TCU1AC5CI2 SLP113 DENSITY ALT 1200FT < 1403129933 874317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :~metar ENVA < 1403129934 530188 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 182150Z 11004KT 9999 -RA FEW005 SCT012 BKN030 10/09 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 17005KT < 1403129941 547439 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come it feels so humid outside, even if it's 24 over 14? < 1403129942 336580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :brr < 1403129948 646253 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403130060 480472 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should go and enjoy the Norwegian summer one day... < 1403130147 356427 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to do that? < 1403130184 483684 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it seems fun? < 1403130232 178688 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1403130266 719983 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is, I've only been in norway in the winter that I can remember < 1403130320 165843 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :once we went there in summer and came back with weird flatbread, coins with holes in them and oddly shaped candy < 1403130390 767773 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had me at coins with holes. < 1403130564 221303 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-201-82.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, time to sleep < 1403130641 69170 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you can't remember going in summer but you did? < 1403131036 861635 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm do we have coins with holes any more < 1403131068 803904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh two of them in fact < 1403131084 773308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 and 5 nok) < 1403131122 733894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION isn't really up to date with the recent weird candy < 1403131153 680369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for flatbread, there are probably heaps of types < 1403131156 549521 :brandonsons|2!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net NICK :brandonson < 1403131338 878185 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403131368 335519 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1403131450 882688 :S1!~S1@pD9FCADF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1403131603 74386 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1403131766 192160 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stop thinking of Erlang/Elixir+OTP as encouraging global mutable state < 1403131772 711703 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Processes seem like they're often registered with a static name < 1403131774 787031 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's masculine bed that makes no sense < 1403131775 343137 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1403131804 330132 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I be thinking of (some) supervisors almost like factories? Call a function with the supervisor and the supervisor can create a child and return its PID? Is that a normal flow? < 1403131815 373240 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wondering how to make supervised children dynamically for so long < 1403131844 533422 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403131848 862986 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1403131856 470276 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: not my problem. our object genders are correctly and obviously assigned :P < 1403131866 675173 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: OCCLUSAL CHICKEN < 1403131989 75061 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose I have a simple_one_for_one to do exactly this. Is that simple_one_for_one generally registered? (a.k.a global state) < 1403132095 344911 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this the wrong place to ask Erlang questions? < 1403132108 847208 :S1!~S1@pD9FCADF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140608211810] < 1403132125 309213 :metasepia!~metasepia@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403132129 625818 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-61-225.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do any of us even know erlang < 1403132176 369891 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Vorpal? < 1403132203 783313 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal isn't here < 1403132219 303209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but #esoteric is more of a stream of consciousness channel for Sgeo, i think < 1403132278 36319 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Is this the wrong place to ask Erlang questions? < 1403132311 300899 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :People here answer questions about all sorts of non-esoteric languages, so I guess I kind of figured < 1403132626 783157 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1403132666 531620 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1403132753 298171 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1403132755 414926 :brandonson!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I always thought of globally registered supervisors/actors as a little odd, but often a necessary evil. Passing around a PID to everything seemed a bit like overkill. < 1403132790 321064 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practically every example I've seen uses them though < 1403132804 373575 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the non-global registered way to do normal stuff? < 1403132815 367738 :not^v!~notnot^v@198.109.114.66 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403132864 999933 :brandonson!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Passing around PIDs I think. I just hate the extra parameter cause without static typing I always mix the order of params up :P < 1403132917 554145 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm not dynamically registering children, how do I make a gen_server that there should in most circumstances be one of and have the supervisor supervise it? < 1403132933 72723 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to understand how passing around PIDs interacts with the supervision tree < 1403133144 450604 :brandonson!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You'd generally have the supervisor create children when it's created and send you the PIDs if you need them, I think. Little sketchy on my knowledge here though, I'm more familiar with akka/scala actors. < 1403133172 264509 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get the top level supervisor of my application? < 1403133426 682071 :brandonson!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's likely the original actor that you create, so you can pass it as a parameter to anything that needs it and then store it as state. I don't think many actors need it though, you're more likely to need the PIDs for supervisors/workers that perform whatever tasks an actor needs done. < 1403133508 822208 :brandonson!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The top level actor/supervisor is almost always/always always your error kernel that really should never fail, so you don't want too many things touching it. < 1403134058 723517 :mihow!~mihow@rrcs-50-75-208-18.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Quit: mihow < 1403134064 644364 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this gif adequate, or is there something I can improve? http://corewar.co.uk/32.gif < 1403134066 365451 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1403134172 990986 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It demonstrates an imp moving through memory (a single instruction program that copies itself one instruction ahead, then executes the new copy) < 1403134179 959965 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-61-225.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it. < 1403134188 211450 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-61-225.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems reasonably smooth < 1403134254 816482 :brandonson!~brandonso@d173-180-174-224.bchsia.telus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: looks good < 1403134395 296243 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brandonson, bike: thanks :-) I just look at it and think it could be done better, but I've no idea how! < 1403134404 903936 :impomatic!~digital_w@84.93.80.151 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was made in GIMP < 1403134415 281049 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-61-225.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear polytone knows a thing or two about gifs < 1403134426 465773 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-11-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1403134463 511595 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-11-217.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1403134463 698840 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1403134967 715543 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1403135215 330442 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403135426 905430 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:887:68aa:ae75:2bf2:e88a JOIN :#esoteric < 1403135725 327092 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1403135813 999445 :not^v!~notnot^v@2601:4:4500:887:68aa:ae75:2bf2:e88a QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1403135850 873832 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric