00:01:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:02:27 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:09:15 -!- tromp has joined. 00:11:12 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:11:22 -!- Bike has joined. 00:41:47 Why do Google's HTTP servers have a lot of protocol violations? 00:44:15 to madden you 00:49:04 I doubt it has anything to do with me 00:59:23 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:03:12 zzo38: because lots of people don't follow protocols, sometimes because they can't, because of other people not following protocols 01:16:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:20:38 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:24:51 Can you please help me? Is ZCDSF even LALR(1)? 01:26:16 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:26:44 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:27:01 The compiler says there aren't any conflicts, but it still doesn't work. 01:28:52 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:29:24 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 01:32:39 Actually I may have found one of the mistakes; probably many of the mistakes I made are in the tokenizer instead of in the parser. 01:33:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:33:32 The tokenizer was deleting some semicolons that shouldn't be deleted. 01:34:41 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:34:55 -!- Bike has joined. 01:35:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:35:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:36:41 I think it works now. 01:38:11 Macros still have a few problems. 01:46:19 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:28 OK I fixed it. I accidentally put a minus sign instead of equal sign and that caused a problem 02:05:51 I love working at 1:15AM! 02:05:58 ocl 02:06:01 *ick 02:19:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:21:52 -!- Bike has joined. 02:24:23 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: g2g). 02:26:41 Now I made it: http://zzo38computer.org/prog/zcdsflib.zip 02:27:43 Please look in the file called "zcdsflib.h" for the list of API functions. 02:28:30 Do you think this is good? 02:30:52 It isn't quite perfect. 02:31:18 It isn't secure either. 02:34:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:37:25 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 02:37:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:43:24 -!- Bike has joined. 02:44:24 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:08:36 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:15:59 -!- Leb has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:18:48 -!- Bike_ has joined. 03:22:07 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:22:32 -!- Bike has joined. 03:23:32 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:32:40 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:41:29 A music tracker software I would think, it would help to have three more windows: SQL window, MML compiler window, and synthesizer window. Do you know of such a software, which can also make/edit/play a .MOD and .S3M and .IT and .XM formats? 03:42:47 Also even such format as .MOD and so on you cannot enable multiple effects at once 03:52:24 -!- tswett has joined. 03:52:32 Good news, everyone! 03:52:45 So I'm pretty sure that a while back, in this channel, someone mentioned "coffee with butter in". 03:53:56 I mentioned that that sounded wrong to me; you'd have to say "coffee with butter in it". 03:54:15 Whereas it's perfectly fine to say e.g. "a gun with bullets in". 03:54:17 Someone asked why. 03:54:23 I now think I know the answer to that question. 03:54:42 "slightly different dialect" 03:54:44 The answer is that something is only "in" if it operates by being inside of whatever it's inside of. Otherwise, it has to be "in it". 03:55:06 Bullets operate by being inside of guns. Butter does not operate by being inside of coffee. 03:55:32 have you ever heard the term "post-hoc" 03:56:02 As in post-hoc analysis? 03:56:17 quite 03:56:45 Sure. It's hard to do analysis without already having some data. 03:58:28 well the implication is you just make something up after the fact. 03:58:47 Well, I tried to come up with a simple hypothesis that fit the data well. 03:58:52 without much real possibility that it's the cause (for instance: why does this matter to americans and not to brits) 03:59:29 cos you keep doing this and you're gonna end up thinking "fuck" is an initialism, you know? 04:00:44 Also, I haven't yet thought of a counterexample or an alternative hypothesis that seems to work better. 04:01:10 quirk of history assisted by geographic separations 04:03:07 Have you ever used a gun 04:03:41 Bike: you realize that you're not actually contradicting what I said? 04:03:46 Jafet: yes, but not a bullet gun. 04:03:55 mine is an alternative hypothesis. 04:04:24 i haven't used a gun, but i have concluded that they work by magnetic acceleration, cos that's how i'd make one. 04:04:29 My hypothesis is a hypothesis about what the rule is for me personally. Your hypothesis is a hypothesis about why it's that way. 04:05:05 Bicycle artillery 04:05:21 (I ain't never used none of them BULLET GUNS.) 04:05:31 why would you do that to a bicycle jafet 04:06:14 You can't put artillery on a unicycle, man, it would fall over. 04:06:35 Bicycle artillery. What a great idea. 04:07:08 have the artillery fire in both ways simultaneously 04:07:35 Is there a word for a gun that isn't a firearm? 04:07:45 Of course, that never stopped the Dresden Unicycle Military Branch's firing uni cyclist kooks. 04:07:52 waterleg 04:10:27 Are tracker music formats supposed to be deliberately difficult to work with? 04:10:33 It seems like it to me. 04:12:07 Air gun, I guess. 04:14:20 zzo38: it's a well known fact that leonardo davinci wrote his chiptunes backwards to confuse thieves. 04:28:38 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 04:52:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 04:59:00 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:00:34 -!- vyv has joined. 05:13:19 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:46:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:50:06 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:26:02 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:55:58 -!- tertu has joined. 06:56:30 -!- variable has changed nick to constant. 07:00:31 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:00:35 -!- tertu_ has joined. 07:08:35 -!- kmc has joined. 07:08:41 fungots fall on fungot falls 07:08:41 kmc: or not. i didn't write down who said that 07:10:41 fungot: apparently, godspeed you black emperor hth 07:10:41 oerjan: strike the " for" 07:10:55 fungot: already did hth 07:10:55 oerjan: this means that whatever the 2nd interpreter does added to the hashtable i have the patch? 07:11:24 fungot: i don't know, show me the code 07:11:24 oerjan: my fnord have fnord of code improvement are applicable to many languages 07:11:38 fungot: i think that got censored hth 07:11:39 oerjan: i did?) has no support for processes. 07:12:05 ^language hth 07:14:11 ^show 07:14:11 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 07:14:26 i don't think it has that command 07:18:42 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:20:40 -!- vyv has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:22:01 -!- vyv has joined. 07:23:51 -!- password2 has joined. 08:05:09 zzo38: Loughry pushed some new stuff 08:05:15 He pushed more source code and the LIST source code too 08:05:26 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/blob/master/MM1SM1.SCN 08:05:36 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/tree/master/LIST/src/ 08:05:40 ^- that's the LIST source 08:06:04 OK now let me to see it 08:06:47 -!- micha2718l has joined. 08:07:41 He also found a PDF that documents opcodes 08:07:52 although "documents"... :D 08:07:57 it lists them at least :D 08:08:45 4001 - 7999 is Draw 08:08:47 whatever that means. 08:10:33 What do the asterisks on the left side means? 08:11:16 No idea. 08:11:38 Some of these things I have already guessed a bit from the other printouts and examples 08:12:39 Whoever printed it out forgot to compensate for the holes 08:15:20 10000 - 12000 are "Arithmetic Commands" 08:15:37 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:15:50 Still very little information :) 08:16:36 Yes, although from looking at the printout, a few more things can be figured out about that. 08:16:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:17:15 I already figured that 10000 and so on are used for direct assignment, and low numbered commands are prompts, from what was available before. 08:17:36 From looking at printout a few more things about how this "arithmetic commands" can be figured out. 08:19:54 For example, the three operands to "arithmetic commands" seem to be the values to add or otherwise do, where you have to multiply by ten and add two. A number 1 to 2000 is a variable, or you can add 2200 for a literal number (I don't know why it is 2200). 08:21:03 But for comparisons, there is no "multiply by ten", and you instead add ten thousand for a numeric literal, or thirty thousand for a character literal. 08:22:10 (I don't know what happens if you add twenty thousand.) 08:23:45 i need more things to graph 08:24:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:24:38 The ones digit of the arithmetic operands seems to be 2 for addition and 6 for substrings; I don't know what 5 means. 08:24:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 08:24:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:24:49 Quintopia: graph the number of graphs that don't graph themselves hth 08:28:56 -!- micha2718l has quit (Quit: Bye). 08:29:08 -!- micha2718l has joined. 08:33:49 OK, now I see arithmetic operator 4 is division 08:35:43 From the context, it seems that command 3100 might mean that it is an error if the condition is false; rewind and tell the user to try again. 08:38:24 It is now clear from the arrows that 3001 command block does not nest, and just combines conditions using a "and" operation; I have already guessed this from the part of the program that "only ten people can read", and now I have confirmed it. 08:39:30 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 08:40:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:41:37 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:41:37 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:41:57 -!- oerjan has set topic: Turning BANCStar up to eleven | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 08:49:30 I am guessing that the last value in the prompt commands is the position on the screen which it is displayed. 08:49:55 And it is in row/column format 08:50:04 Where the row is multiplied by one hundred 08:52:03 It is in format: variable,help-position,response-length,field-position is my currently guess 08:53:03 I don't know why some of them use negative numbers though. Probably that means something too. 08:53:56 -!- edwardk has joined. 08:58:43 zzo38: He alos pushed 58 pages of annotated source code :) 08:58:51 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/blob/master/LIST/doc/C16LNAPP.SCN_LIST_report.pdf 08:59:44 which also includes some "Screenshots" of the GUI at the end 09:00:20 or at least what his tool generated 09:01:02 zzo38: He also found a copy of the actual software 09:01:13 on a floppy disk :) 09:01:18 which he tries to recover 09:01:26 let's hope the floppy disk isn't too much damaged. 09:02:32 Yes, I am looking at those annotated codes now 09:03:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:08:55 -!- mhi^ has joined. 09:13:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:14:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 09:22:46 zzo38: is this about BANCStar still? 09:23:05 seems to be 09:26:04 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:26:25 b_jonas: yep 09:27:08 Is the first number in a BANCStar line always the opcode? 09:29:04 b_jonas: I think so 09:29:43 Although the opcode also includes the number of the variable to manipulate, if applicable. 09:29:44 I'll make an entry on the eso wiki for BANCStar 09:33:55 i vaguely recall BANCStar being removed because someone insisted it's not esoteric. not sure it was the wiki, though. 09:34:35 [wiki] [[BANCStar]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39783 * B jonas * (+730) Created page with "'''BANCStar''' is a language that was used in production in finance in the 1990s, even though it looks like an esoteric language. Each line in a BANCStar program is four op..." 09:35:16 There is the prehistory of esolangs page, as well as some people wanting "honorary esolangs" too; however, it is unsure how to organize such thing within the wiki, and furthermore in a few cases it may be disagreed of what counts. 09:35:43 meh, if you don't like honorary esolangs, just add a category for them or something 09:35:55 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39784&oldid=39737 * B jonas * (+15) 09:36:30 I myself am OK with it (and agree with you to make it separate category), but perhaps we can decide which way best. 09:37:08 sure, just delete it if you decide there's no place for it 09:37:27 and add Haskell and C++ etc if you decide you want honorary esolangs or something 09:38:03 I wouldn't consider to add those, but that is what I say, it may be disagreed of what counts. 09:38:45 More seriously, I wouldn't bother to add stuff like Haskell or C++ or TeX or metafont etc, because there's already lots of information about those everywhere on the internet. 09:38:48 b_jonas: i think the prospect that people will start adding things like haskell and c++ is a reason why we've avoided it... 09:39:08 But if you're actually studying BANCStar here, then it deserves a place on the eso wiki. 09:39:37 so let's try it then. 09:39:41 oerjan: if someone does want to bother, I don't feel a problem with adding C++, as long as it's not seriously misrepresented 09:39:56 like, don't claim that it's not used in production or that it was intended as an esolang originally 09:40:47 should BANCStar go into bounded storage languages, or have you found a way to address arrays? 09:40:59 Note of things like http://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages existing, as well as some things on user subpages such as http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ian/Computer_architectures 09:41:44 zzo38: sure 09:41:46 b_jonas: There are "tables", but I don't know how they work. Probably it is bounded storage but of course I don't know; only things we can do for now is to makes guesses 09:42:12 I believe that the Special:Random will never select a user page 09:42:59 never mind, it's not like bounded storage really means much in a language implemented in a computer 09:44:19 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 09:45:54 I think pages can also be moved between name spaces if that help 09:46:02 sure 09:48:30 I would delete [[Perl]] if oerjan didn't make it mildly amusing 09:48:59 *hadn't made, rather 09:49:24 Yes I think that Perl article is good the way it is written, for being on esolang wiki 09:50:43 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:51:11 [wiki] [[Perl]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39785&oldid=37512 * B jonas * (+26) 09:51:33 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 09:51:50 b_jonas: that category is for esoteric languages only, I think 09:51:57 [wiki] [[Perl]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39786&oldid=39785 * B jonas * (+54) 09:52:06 oh, maybe not 09:52:09 I guess it's not a subcat of Languages 09:52:20 there should probably be a cateogry for non-esoteric languages 09:52:34 but Implemented and TC should maybe be reserved for esoteric-only, I think. 09:52:42 Or probably one for honorary esolang, at least 09:52:51 elliott: Yes, probably those two should at least 09:53:16 looks like you can have 501 pages 09:53:30 probably 500 09:53:35 I assume 0 isn't a "legal" page 09:53:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:53:54 values > 501 are function keys 09:54:07 (There may sometimes be reasons why you might have TC on other things too but I don't think of any right now. But I agree that Implemented probably only for (non-honorary) esolangs) 09:54:12 as for BANCStar, the strange part is why they didn't use at least an assembler for handling the code labels and variables 09:54:20 mroman: OK 09:54:31 b_jonas: I was thinking about quite the same kind of things 09:54:52 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:54:55 such an assembler could probably be made compatible with existing code 09:54:57 An assembler (supporting a superset of the existing syntax) could be done. 09:55:11 (at least not less compatible than writing raw code) 09:55:12 I could do it if I knew enough about it! 09:55:25 L_COMMTS.C is probably going to be most helpful 09:55:32 but I probably have a strange idea about these kinds of things: 09:55:59 8500 with M3 40XX is like pressing the corresponding key o_O 09:56:42 back when we had to write the same homework in two languages, I wrote a translator from a language that had the intersection of their features, and then when that worked fine, I ran out of time and couldn't write the actual program to work well 09:56:44 you can even execute DOS commands apparentely 09:57:10 and even now I probably care too much about the tools 09:57:23 mromas: Yes I saw that. 09:58:11 is this BANCStar system connected to a database or network or printer or something? 09:58:29 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:58:30 zzo38: Did you look at the arithmetic commands 09:58:30 b_jonas: I would guess, all three, probably. 09:58:35 they are really weird 09:58:42 but it looks like there's -+*/ 09:59:04 mroman: I have looked at the scanned listing file, and figure out some of how it works, as I have described above. 09:59:23 I didn't finished looking at all of them yet, though. 09:59:53 Values under 2000 are prompts 10:00:12 how are you reverse engineering this? from those printouts only? or do you have access to an implementation (not necessarily in working condition)? 10:00:13 mroman: Yes I figured out that already. 10:00:15 which means if the operand_2 is 1000 it will show the user a prompt with the text stored in 1000? 10:00:25 b_jonas: From those printouts only. 10:00:40 b_jonas: We might get access to an implementation 10:00:52 depends on whether JLoughry can read the floppy disk he found 10:01:21 Even from just the two pages that were originally scanned, and the information that was released when they wrote about the program that only ten people can read it, I could figure out a lot of things. 10:01:34 Although a lot of it, just being guesses. 10:02:03 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 10:02:04 zzo38: Out of curiousity: Do you plan to implement BANCStar? 10:02:10 Or why did you start reverse engineering it? 10:04:03 mroman: Just to figure it out, because figure out that kind of stuff interests me a bit. 10:14:48 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:45 zzo38: have you documented what you've figured out so far in a file or something? 10:29:44 The thing doing the printing seems to print "variable" numbers emboldened. I wonder if that has any semantic meaning or is just a pretty-printing thing 10:38:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:40:27 FireFly: probably no semantic meaning, for http://reocities.com/ResearchTriangle/station/2266/tarpit/bancstar.html 10:40:37 says "The only legal characters in a BANCStar program are the digits 0 through 9, comma, minus sign, and carriage return. Blank lines are not allowed. If a "." appears anywhere in the file, the compiler will crash." 10:42:08 That makes sense 10:43:04 the compiler. crashes. on a fungotting period. I refuse to believe that. 10:43:04 boily: hey would fnord be fun to watch him argue with a native fnord. 10:43:25 fungot: there are multiple kinds of fnords? 10:43:25 boily: if you consider that i stated only what i need is to override a specific procedure and then re-export everything else the way it is 10:43:40 yeah, consider that 10:43:52 Dies this really have a compiler? I totally thought this was some interpreter that interprets the array of fours of integers. 10:47:30 b_jonas: It has a "Screen Generator" 10:47:48 Which I think allowed you to create Forms WYSYWG style? 10:48:23 there was a program at least that allowed to to create stuff which was translated to BANCStar language that was interpreted by some sort of VM 10:48:29 *you to 10:48:41 boily: what's so strange about that, after all it's just the compiler coming to a full stop 10:48:48 but as he said, that Screen Generator wasn't powerful enough so they started reverse engineering the VM 10:49:05 and program directly in it instead of using the screen generator 10:49:26 as I understand it it was never meant to be programmed in it directly which is why there's no official documentation of it 10:49:38 which is weird because... I mean 10:49:44 If you program a VM you document it, right? 10:49:56 mroman: sure, 10:50:02 zzo38: Who actually wrote the BANCStar "VM"? 10:50:30 ah. the NFCS Inc. 10:50:44 Hm 10:50:44 mroman: but I meant about that statement that the "compiler crashes" if it meets a full stop in the barnstar numbers 10:51:24 oerjan: ... 10:51:47 b_jonas: Oh. Hm... 10:51:54 That's a good question 10:52:32 "We developed some in-house tools for programming large applications in BANCStar, and at one point attempted to interest Broadway & Seymour in them, but I think they never really believed us, that we were writing directly to their internal, low-level, undocumented machine code." 10:52:37 :D 10:53:11 Why would Broadway & Seymour create a VM and not document it's machine code 10:53:24 and why wouldn't the programmers just ask them for a documentation 10:53:30 this is all really really creepy 10:53:41 mroman: because it's supposed to be an internal form for the screne generator program 10:53:43 mroman: manifest destiny hth 10:53:55 b_jonas: Yeah. 10:54:00 mroman: IMO, the people that started to misuse it and write the internal form directly without proper tools are to blame 10:54:07 But how will you write the Screen Generator without documentation of the VM it's supposed to target? 10:54:19 mroman: yes. this was before 1990 10:54:27 mroman: don't try to think of it like you're in 2014 10:54:39 it's like you wrote a VM, then a "Compiler"/"Generator" that targets said VM 10:54:43 but you never documented the freaking VM? 10:54:50 what the hell 10:55:07 Good luck maintaining that compiler then 10:55:08 Maybe they documented it with pen and paper 10:55:10 yes, or maybe they documented it internally, but never released the docs about that with their proprietary screen generator software 10:55:32 maybe there's documentation in the source code for their screen generator or something 10:55:43 b_jonas: I understand that they did not release the docs if you weren't supposed to program in it 10:55:52 but once you KNOW that people really program in it 10:56:00 that's the point I would release the documentation 10:56:09 possibly even *sell* the documentation to earn more money 10:56:29 instead of saying "Well, you guys just reverse engineer it. I don't care. I won't help you." 10:56:41 mroman: probably those docs were not in a releasable state 10:56:56 yeah. 10:57:04 but for gods sake they reverse engineered it :) 10:57:07 and come on, if you were the developer and someone told you thye want to develop right for that internal language, wouldn't you just LAUGH AT THEM? 10:57:11 even a not so good doc is better than nothing. 10:57:17 those people deserve not to have the docs 10:57:22 b_jonas: I would laugh 10:57:33 but I'm pretty sure I'd send them the docs I have 10:57:38 I'm a bit scared that stuff like this was actually powering banks 10:57:44 not for free probably but I'd sell them 10:58:16 Like "well, you're not supposed to do that but for 1000$ bucks I'll give you the documentation" 10:58:27 FireFly: have you looked at the scanned screenshots on github? it probably just powered credit application form printout stuff, not real banking programs 10:58:28 It's not really my problem if they program in the internal language 10:58:41 other than this means that my screen generator is crap :D 10:58:47 b_jonas: yeah, I'm reading it currently 10:59:16 so I would laugh at first, then realize that my product is apparentely so crappy, they started reverse engineering undocumented stuff and that'd make me sad 11:00:10 mroman: again, this was before 1990. think of it like that. you didn't have infinite computing resources back then. 11:00:32 reverse engineering random programs from a floppy was sort of the norm at that time 11:02:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CRAWFISH CHICKEN). 11:04:25 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:04:39 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:05:00 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 11:08:21 zzo38: operand fields ≥2200 seem to be constants, and the least significant digit of each operand seems to determine the operation somehow 11:09:07 This thing is bizarre 11:10:03 what's the highest magnitude number that appears in the source? 11:11:47 Dunno, but e.g. here a parameter is 25652, which, if I'm guessing correctly, corresponds to the constant value 365 and the operation 2 (addition or concat or something) 11:12:29 There are probably bigger numbers though, a scanned-in pdf isn't easy to search 11:13:41 ! 11:13:49 At least this seems to use ASCII 11:14:23 oh wait, never mind 11:16:35 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 11:17:54 well that's the right order of magnitude for a -32768 .. 32767 range 11:18:04 of 16 bits 11:22:25 > chr 89 11:22:26 'Y' 11:23:49 FireFly: >= 2200 && <= 3276 11:24:12 at least for exponentian 11:24:58 conditionals seem to use other conventions for how to denote constant values 11:25:21 10xxx seems to be a constant int, 30xxx a constant char (ASCII-encoded) 11:25:48 also operator is % 10 and operand / 10? 11:26:10 yep 11:26:13 Yeah 11:26:22 for assignemnts 11:26:37 How mid$ comes into that, I've no clue 11:26:59 you encode where to assign in the op itself, right? 11:27:12 yes 11:27:44 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:27:45 M1-10000 11:27:53 I don't get what the prompts are 11:27:59 A prompt can store an integer? 11:28:19 Me neither, but I think it could be related to the whole drawing-a-window thing 11:28:30 there's a list of prompt variables and their types and lengths at the end of the PDF 11:30:37 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:30:44 hm k 11:30:51 Probably from the prompt file 11:31:00 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:31:29 Did this thing have some Database in the background? 11:31:38 to store forms/files? 11:35:31 There are table search commands for example 11:35:51 whatever a table is 11:38:26 -!- M28_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:39:29 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:39:44 there are indirect prompts as well 11:39:58 No idea what indirect refers to right now 11:40:20 22002 seems to be used as a general "unused operand".. I wonder what the reference implementation would do if you passed something else instead 11:40:42 for instance, "x ← number of days between y and z" seems to be 1xxxx,yyyy9,zzzz3,22002 11:40:54 ah. There's file-io too 11:41:03 Oh? 11:41:06 yeah 11:41:27 -!- general_cryptic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:41:55 16000 - 18999 11:42:13 foo = 0; if Applicant == 'Y': foo = 1; if Spouse == 'Y': foo = 1; ...; if foo == 1: ... 11:42:29 I take it this thing doesn't have a cleaner way to do "or" 11:43:06 " It took about two weeks to become fluent in the language." 11:43:13 Two weeks is actually not very long 11:43:29 -!- general_cryptic has joined. 11:45:55 Proceed If aborts if it fails? 11:46:14 there's if, block if, proceed if and reverse block proceed if whatever that is supposed to be 11:47:49 isn't it reverse block if? 11:48:03 anyway, I think that's like a do-while loop, essentially (guessing by the arrow to the left) 11:48:13 heh 11:48:30 so you're missing reverse if, reverse block if, and block proceed if? 11:48:43 reverse if wouldn't make much sense 11:48:45 and reverse proceed if 11:49:15 which of those is computed come from? 11:49:24 Neither I think 11:49:55 b_jonas: so 3101 jumps back to a previous 3101? 11:50:00 if is "conditionally execute next line", block if is "ignore until block-end if condition holds", reverse block if is the same but backwards 11:50:06 looks ilke that from the C16LNAPP 11:50:07 AIUI 11:50:13 although I haven't found a nested 3101 now 11:50:21 er, unless condition holds* 11:51:06 FireFly: so none of those have a target label? 11:51:07 -!- tertu_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:51:22 this is actually structured programming with if-endif rather than if-goto? 11:51:23 wow 11:51:27 pretty advanced for its age 11:51:30 b_jonas: yeah 11:51:39 3101 looks like it jumps back to a previous 3101 11:51:46 and 3001 jumps forward to the next 3001 11:51:48 something like that 11:52:17 b_jonas: yep. there is also "save address", "goto screen N", "return from subroutine" 11:52:31 FireFly: What's WSF*** 11:52:35 great 11:52:42 No clue 11:52:44 Are those prompts? 11:52:48 files? tables? windows? 11:53:10 :) 11:53:14 maybe you can compile brainfuck to bancstar then 11:53:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:53:35 Hm 11:53:45 hm. 11:53:48 and then claim that this is one of those trivial brainfuck variants like Ook! that only replace the symbols with a longer encoding 11:53:54 there are occurences of 3001 followed by another 3001 11:53:58 b_jonas: well, the if-endif doesn't nest 11:53:59 ] would be 3101,,, or something 11:54:01 but only followed by one endif block 11:54:09 FireFly: you only need nested do-while, not nested if 11:54:19 looks like it really jumps only to the next end block 11:54:24 do-while also does not nest I think 11:54:32 hmm 11:54:41 So compiling brainfuck would be a bit tricky 11:54:43 C16LNAPP line 00892 11:54:47 ok 11:54:54 there's a 3001, and a "nested" 3001 11:55:02 but they both end at 00900 11:55:06 (according to the arrows at least) 11:55:09 well, I guess it's more practical to just escape to machine code somehow 11:56:30 mroman: yeah, I'm guessing it's implemented by setting a flag to ignore commands, and end-of-block resets it, or some such 11:58:19 FireFly: or more likely just fast-scanning for the end of block command in a separate loop 12:01:02 why's that more likely :D? 12:01:53 -!- augur has joined. 12:03:00 -!- yorick has joined. 12:04:31 hmm, maybe they don't do either: instead the block if command just stores its label to a global variable, the end-of-block commands are preprocessed to know where the previous end-of-block statement is, and the end-of-block statements are compiled as a computed come from that kicks in when that global variable is set to anything between their address and the address of the previous end-of-block. 12:05:17 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:05:51 that would be simpler than either ABSTAINING FROM all statements other than end-of-block like FireFly suggests, or scanning in the code memory to find the end-of-block 12:06:58 i think ignoring commands when a global flag is set is very easy to implement ;) 12:07:54 mroman: but so is a loop to scan forward if your code is represented in as simple a way as four words per statement, first word is opcode 12:07:59 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:10:27 -!- mhi^ has joined. 12:11:56 https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar/blob/master/LIST/src/L_COMMTS.C seems to have a lot of interesting info 12:12:59 yep 12:13:10 maybe even enough to write an interpreter :D 12:14:16 FireFly: is that a code pretty printer? 12:14:24 Yes 12:14:46 the LIST utility is apparently what took a BANCStar source file and produced a listing like the pdf that was linked before 12:15:33 hee, that loop with "Deactivate F7 - activate all other F-keys" in that pretty-printer seems copy-paste code 12:15:53 not just a pretty printer 12:16:04 it annotates code with pseudo-code 12:16:26 mroman: yes. that's a pretty-printer. or call it a disassembler if you prefer. 12:17:09 I don't ;) 12:17:13 I'll call it code annotator 12:18:37 you could also call it a syntax highlighter :P 12:19:02 it typesets variables in boldtext and things 12:19:38 It's the holy grail of a tool . 12:19:45 that is, if you beleive in the holy grail 12:19:56 *believe 12:21:30 Whose bright idea was it to make the conditional operator encoding depend on the type? 12:21:57 That is, the check for inequality of strings seems to be encoded with the same operator number as >= on numbers 12:22:25 there are string variables? 12:22:34 Yes 12:22:39 I think so, at least 12:23:16 Makes sense to me, if you have input fields for things that it would be able to deal with strings too 12:23:32 so the mid and length operations operate on entire strings? is there a string concatenate operator? that'd probably be easily enough for turing-completeness 12:24:20 I thought it only operated on characters, and on fixed length arrays laid out in the 2000 words of data memory or something 12:24:59 I think we're not even sure if you have 2000 words 12:25:04 or just 2000 storage thingies 12:25:15 which can hold values of different size 12:25:22 yeah 12:25:32 There is a line that gets annotated with "Name = First Name + Middle + Last", where the only sensible interpretation I can think of is string concatenation 12:25:44