00:00:01 fungot: your momma's a random factoid. 00:00:36 [wiki] [[Hashes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39481&oldid=35043 * 93.115.84.195 * (+0) /* example */ 00:01:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:12:15 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 00:12:36 -!- ^v has joined. 00:19:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:27:00 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 00:32:51 -!- edwardk has joined. 01:03:02 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:05:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TURKEY CHICKEN). 01:07:23 @ask boily what's the deal with your quit messages? 01:07:23 Consider it noted. 01:09:48 compiled for your viewing pleasure https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/67b3ffb982fa31eb9b65 01:17:17 -!- tromp__ has joined. 01:19:07 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:22:03 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 01:23:50 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 01:25:34 -!- ^v has joined. 01:25:42 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:26:24 -!- tromp has joined. 01:29:26 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:31:34 -!- tromp__ has joined. 01:33:13 [wiki] [[User talk:Gs30ng]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39482&oldid=20546 * Gs30ng * (+499) Reply to Chris Pressey 01:34:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:38:57 -!- tromp has joined. 01:40:53 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:46:18 -!- tromp__ has joined. 01:49:26 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 01:51:41 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:00:27 -!- tromp has joined. 02:03:17 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:05:23 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 02:08:49 -!- tromp__ has joined. 02:10:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:06:34 -!- adu has joined. 03:11:35 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 03:14:26 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:14:52 -!- ^v has joined. 03:18:38 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:19:02 -!- ^v has joined. 03:27:08 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:42:51 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:48:50 -!- adu has joined. 03:48:58 -!- adu has quit (Client Quit). 04:21:01 fungots fall on fungot falls 04:21:01 kmc: fnord/ fnord 04:45:54 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:22:41 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 05:25:04 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:25:32 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 05:25:51 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:27:13 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:39:48 -!- aloril has joined. 05:41:27 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:16:16 -!- tertu has joined. 06:18:24 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 06:22:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 06:27:29 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:27:41 -!- tertu has joined. 06:29:38 -!- password2 has joined. 06:32:09 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:37:39 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: bbl). 06:50:13 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:50:54 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:50:57 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:51:19 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:51:22 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:51:49 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:51:52 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:52:14 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:52:17 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:52:39 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:52:42 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:53:04 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 06:53:07 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Excess Flood). 06:55:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:57:34 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:07:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:07:42 -!- conehead has joined. 07:15:00 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 07:18:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:23:17 compiled for your viewing pleasure https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/67b3ffb982fa31eb9b65 <-- a view into the mind of a Very Sane Man. sadly not chronological. 07:24:28 yeah 07:25:35 http://i.imgur.com/EYT9clp.png finally 07:27:06 kmc: now you can quit 07:27:07 am i the only one who feels weird about an erotic shop doing a mother's day lottery? 07:27:36 probably not 07:28:36 is it MILF day 07:29:50 shachaf: doubtful 07:34:23 it's V-E Day, in moscow anyway 07:36:55 privet tovarish 07:37:39 `coins 07:37:41 ​aubercoin rnassingcoin intfull+coin ockcoin kipplexcoin shacccccccoin bdacoin stackcoin splcoin oortecoin snuskelloucoin emiacoin genheaperumcoin bogkcoin rvelyardshinrcoin traincoin poinecoin arbazocoin wallcoin alpotcoin 07:39:48 -!- trout has changed nick to pong. 07:39:53 -!- pong has changed nick to trout. 07:40:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:41:15 FTL in hard mode without pausing http://www.twitch.tv/lethalfrag 07:56:34 as stealth, lol 08:01:23 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:33:09 -!- john_metcalf has joined. 08:57:49 today I passed a grocery store which displayed the slogans "My Mouth Can Make Sounds But These Sounds Are Not Words" and "Every Vegetable Is A Word" 08:58:42 I Have No Mouth But I Need My Veggies 08:59:37 :D 09:18:22 -!- mhi^ has joined. 09:25:29 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:31:14 -!- edwardk has joined. 09:38:47 -!- ion has joined. 09:51:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:00:56 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:01:36 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:03:39 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:04:37 -!- password2 has joined. 10:05:26 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 10:06:16 -!- password2 has joined. 10:15:52 -!- boily has joined. 10:21:38 -!- edwardk has joined. 10:24:03 -!- edwardk has quit (Client Quit). 10:41:09 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:57:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 10:59:01 -!- yorick has joined. 11:17:13 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:27:33 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:32:39 I wonder if there's anyone other than me whose first programming language was esoteric 11:34:29 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:39:35 https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/898b104158d 11:39:38 I don't get this. 11:39:59 "This kind of compression inevitably discards information. " 11:40:16 "4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 18, 20, 24…. This is an infinite series defined as: odd primes plus 1." 11:40:41 I don't see how 4,6,8 => odd primes + 1 is a lossy compression 11:44:30 mroman_, was the first programming language you learned esoteric? 11:45:04 No. 11:46:14 Taneb: http://www.clonk.de/docs/en/sdk/script/index.html 11:46:22 ^- that was the first programming language I learned 11:47:19 http://dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html 11:47:22 ^- mine 11:47:41 It's a scripting language for a 2D-Game 11:48:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:48:07 which allowed players to create own stuff for it 11:48:09 Seriously, if I hadn't seen that language my life would be very different right now 11:48:48 better or worse ;)? 11:49:17 I don't know, probably worse 11:49:24 Wouldn't have met you 11:49:36 Or like most of the people I know 11:50:04 Well, that's not quite true 11:50:19 I found Piet via Irregular Webcomic 11:50:33 If I hadn't read that I wouldn't have met most of the people I know 11:53:07 -!- clog has joined. 11:54:04 Taneb: nice 11:56:19 -!- nucular has joined. 11:56:19 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 11:56:19 -!- nucular has joined. 12:00:45 my whole internet experience sorta cascaded down from a single seed too. i guess dosgames.com! i wonder what life would've been like had i picked another one 12:05:00 I'm not sure what all the seeds were for me. I'm quite sure I found perlmonks early, and that stickmanstickman (now at "http://stickman.qntm.org/index.php") was the first webcomic I read, 12:06:26 my seed was ohjelmointiputka.net, which I first used by printing some of the qbasic code snippets out so I could type those in on my computer (which lacked internet) 12:11:11 I'm not sure what the first esoteric programming language was that I've heared of. Could have been either intercal or unlambda. 12:17:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:17:41 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:18:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:48:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:04:12 I'm pretty sure it was Befunge that was the first esolang I came across, but I have no recollection where. 13:04:39 fungot: Think of it, if that hadn't happened, you might not exist! 13:04:40 fizzie: speaking of which i can't upload from work _) are done only after beating the other guy 13:15:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:21:40 -!- impomatic has joined. 13:23:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:27:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:46:14 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:51:18 -!- augur has joined. 14:12:01 -!- hexagon has changed nick to sign. 14:14:41 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:20:15 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:20:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:24:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:29:38 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:41:19 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:41:28 -!- augur has joined. 14:42:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:45:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:51:33 -!- augur has joined. 14:54:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:56:05 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 14:56:18 -!- RedSquirrel has joined. 15:06:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:07:35 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 15:10:20 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:21:07 The esolang I first came across was either Brainfuck och Argh! 15:22:48 Probably the former, although I think the first I wrote a program in is the latter 15:22:50 "och"? 15:23:00 or* 15:23:02 For me, I think it was probably Brainfuck or INTERCAL. 15:23:32 Too much language context-switching, I suppose 15:23:59 for me it was definitely brainfuck first, then either befunge 98 or Lazy K 15:24:19 -!- aloril has joined. 15:24:43 iirc I found the wiki through befunge, so it probably was second 15:25:22 I'm founding the Esoteric Standard Committee (ESOSC). Who's in? :P 15:25:32 Yeah, why not 15:25:52 That's the spirit! 15:26:10 what would it do? 15:26:17 yeah, what would that do 15:26:38 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:26:46 Congrats, ESC is all over the news already 15:27:31 Eurovision song contest final tomorrow night! 15:34:50 nortti: Issuing standards 15:35:25 for esolang related stuff 15:36:04 mroman_, can we create a "normalized brainfuck" standard? 15:36:40 mroman_: what sort of standards? 15:39:49 Taneb, nortti: Some standardized brainfuck 15:39:50 like uhm 15:39:53 standardizing EOF 15:39:55 and that kinda thing 15:40:04 (EOF for Brainfuck) 15:40:12 stuff like that 15:40:29 and wrap-around for cells, tape etc. 15:40:29 That does not sound like a real standards body. You need a lot more bureaucracy. Working groups and so on. 15:40:53 well 15:40:59 you guys are working groups, right? 15:41:00 ;) 15:41:05 mroman_, I'd say normalized brainfuck for ease of interpretation 15:41:10 ie, no comments/whitespace 15:41:15 8bit cells, wrap-around, eof-is-0? 15:41:16 ah. 15:41:31 You mean like uhm. 15:41:32 Maybe we can make a number of brainfuck standards! 15:42:07 ESOSC 2014-2 requires for a normalized bf programm to only contain chars [.,+-><]? 15:42:20 and everything else isn't ESOSC conform 15:42:24 or whatever 15:42:47 Doesn't conform to ESOSC 2014-2 "Normalized brainfuck (nbf)" 15:43:00 alright 15:43:08 Perhaps we also need to define the semantics of the language 15:43:14 It's a draft :D 15:44:02 also, what happens to newlines in envs where newline is not 0x10 15:44:03 all that's left to do is finding someone who can draw a fancy logo 15:44:22 and we're good 15:46:15 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:47:55 mroman_: you can count me in 15:48:09 mroman_: that's only first normal form of bf 15:49:07 mroman_: second normal form bf programs further don't have the sequence ][ nor >< nor +- nor -+ 15:49:25 why no ][ ? 15:49:34 oh, I see 15:49:42 nortti: the second loop never runs. it's used as a form of comment. 15:49:50 I was thinking "that is not a null" 15:50:12 then I realized the second loops never runs since first one ends with a 0 15:50:24 wouldn't that be third? 15:50:35 second should be like no unmatched brackets and stuff? 15:50:51 what? you need no unmatched brackets in any valid bf program 15:50:52 mroman_, that can be done with a simple CFG 15:51:53 Or a simple sentence 15:52:00 ;) 15:53:51 so 15:54:15 S -> AS|λ 15:54:27 A -> +|-|<|>|,|.|[S] 15:55:13 Looks about right. 16:07:30 What kind of "states" do we need? 16:07:33 Draft, Approved? 16:07:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:07:41 Is there a "Revoked"? 16:08:09 Draft, Approved, Forgotten? 16:11:29 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:12:31 Forgotten? 16:12:36 You mean 16:12:42 obsolete? 16:13:37 err, yeah. my brains do not work today 16:14:23 k 16:14:58 that's the BNF of standard's identification string/number :) 16:15:42 I like "forgotten" 16:17:02 for drafts that are abandoned since everyone losy focus? 16:17:26 *lost 16:18:31 It's the status of most standards once they've gone through the test of time 16:20:52 But I do like the notion of tracking it formally. :) 16:21:19 what criteria would be used to determine if a standard is forgotten? 16:21:34 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:22:42 obviously it's forgotten when nobody remembers it. 16:23:02 then no-one would remember to change its status 16:23:41 -!- password2 has joined. 16:24:28 so you need some outside historian assign the status for you 16:25:24 hmm, interesting idea 16:31:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:31:22 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:31:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:37:41 -!- augur has joined. 16:39:42 the statuses shall be: 1. draft, 2. still draft but already obsolate, 3. accepted but was already obsolate when it was accepted, 4. we claim it's draft and will finish it some day but actually it's vaporware and will be forgotten eventually 16:40:00 and yes, we might need 5. revoked too 16:45:17 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:48:13 -!- ^v has joined. 16:49:04 http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D1-R1.pdf <- gotta set some ground rules 16:50:34 -!- Bike has joined. 16:54:23 so, for example ESOSC-2014-D1 -> ESOSC-2014-D1-R2 -> ESOSC-2014-A1 -> ESOSC-2014-O1 ? 16:56:27 *-D1-R1 16:57:53 I approve! 16:58:21 I approve, too 17:03:24 nortti: yeah 17:15:13 why not R2D2 17:15:28 hm 17:16:58 gotta document when a standard gets obsolete and stuff 17:17:02 then you can approve it ;) 17:19:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:22:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:22:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:24:14 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:27:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:33:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:35:56 `coins 17:35:58 ​todcoin 2d-revcoin quatcoin constanticoin parcoin saaticoin ferrocoin oddbalcoin suxecoin nybracoin lyapascoin luigecoin embaschlacoin rocurdcoin baycoin forcoin catamecoin divilliicoin rubecoin objectcoin 17:36:18 `coins --swedish 17:36:19 ​styrercoin 17:36:44 i like the sound of objectcoin 17:36:55 i like rubecoin 17:37:23 proof of work is a overcomplicated solution to a simple problem? 17:38:42 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/25205w/lets_hire_an_expendables_like_group_to_free_the/ 17:46:49 lol 17:47:22 are all reddit bitcoiners that lost in touch with reality? 17:47:34 nortti, Taneb: http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D1-R2.pdf 17:48:52 "anylonger" should be two words 17:49:08 And we specify the format but not its meaning 17:50:04 oh. yeah 17:50:18 nortti, well, fair play to them it's downvoted into the negatives and all the replies are critical 17:50:25 it was just too hilarious to pass up on 17:50:40 year of issue and an ever increasing number 17:51:06 mroman_: also, it could be good to note that only apprived versions are ever obsoleted 17:51:43 *approved 17:51:51 nortti, why? 17:52:01 how do I put this... 17:52:20 consists of a number that is successively increased with every new standard? 17:52:55 Taneb: to prevent confusion when there are non-obsolete versions that contain the same info as obsolete ones? admitedly, the labelling of them as drafts should tick them off 17:53:12 hm 17:53:19 Drafts can be "Rejected" I guess? 17:53:29 or at "On Hold" 17:53:31 but... meh 17:54:03 nortti, more representative sample: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/251314/its_the_perfect_time_to_buy_bitcoins/ 17:54:09 yeah, probably best to leave that corner-case out and do as we see best once the situation actually happens 17:56:05 oh. And I wrote "avouded" 17:56:13 " Further the EUIN 17:56:15 encodes the year of issue and a number that is successively increased with every new standard to ensure uniqueness. " 17:56:27 Does that sound good? 17:56:58 yes 17:58:17 What would happen if something has a revision in December then another in January? 17:58:32 I guess "first issue"? 17:58:41 year of first issue 17:58:53 That'd make the most sense I think 17:59:37 or the year the work on the draft began 18:00:02 and the same EUIN (except for changed status and no revision in end) is kept when it is aproved 18:01:23 I'd say so 18:08:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:08:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:14:05 nortti, Taneb: http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D1-R3.pdf 18:14:45 Try again 18:15:59 mroman_: 404 18:16:26 hu 18:16:28 hm 18:16:35 now? 18:17:21 Works 18:18:09 I'd say "be approved" rather than "get approved" 18:18:24 Or possibly "be marked as approved" 18:19:02 k. 18:23:19 I think the ESOSC can correct grammar/typos without a new revision :) 18:23:35 oh 18:23:38 I should mention that 18:23:52 => new revision 18:23:52 and that a revision is a draft 18:24:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:24:18 or if you revise a standard the revision of that standard is in state "draft" 18:25:28 "standardization of esoteric programming languages " <- is that a joke? 18:25:35 i hope this standard will be integrated into the esolang standardisation system 18:26:46 RedSquirrel: Nah. It's serious business 18:27:03 serious business (tm) 18:27:17 make all esolangs look like brainfuck 18:27:23 done. 18:27:26 RedSquirrel, ;alfiaewgoiaegwoierarrrgh 18:27:41 good point Phantom__Hoover 18:29:12 -!- edwardk has joined. 18:29:20 nortti: you know there's a tvtropes page for that right 18:29:36 I'd assume so 18:30:10 RedSquirrel: everything we do here is dead serious 18:30:19 "A new revision of an approved standard is put into the draft state and requires the usual approval process taking place. Revisions of standards in draft state 18:30:22 are not affected by this. The ESOSC is allowed to correct gramma, orthographical or similar mistakes without requiring a new revision. " 18:30:34 -!- oerjan has set topic: The dead serious channel | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 18:30:35 *grammar 18:31:08 *granma 18:31:17 *gamma 18:31:30 *handlebar 18:32:17 Taneb: your voice recognition needs work 18:32:27 `quote navajo 18:32:27 724) hang on I have bright idea navajo to f me 1 in 3 people 18:32:40 the builtin orthographical mistakes is standardized copyprotection 18:34:02 http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-D1-R4.pdf 18:35:05 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:36:38 I approve 18:37:35 I also approve. 18:39:53 wait... 18:39:58 how does one become a member :D? 18:40:10 hm. 18:40:19 requires approval of three members to become a member 18:40:26 is that a good thing? 18:40:29 omg 18:40:32 or 18:40:35 hm 18:40:40 I don't really care :) 18:41:19 that's a bad thing 18:41:23 i don't know what the hell is going on and whether or not i am a member, but i approve 18:41:30 mroman_, two thirds majority? 18:41:42 approval by ehird is absolutely satisfying 18:41:44 Taneb: yeah. why not. 18:42:32 nortti: Do you approve two thirds majoirity? 18:42:37 then I don't have to make a R5 :D 18:43:30 so... what the hell is esosc and where can i sign in? 18:44:04 ? esosc 18:44:10 `? esosc 18:44:11 esosc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:44:41 mroman_: 2/3 majority on what? 18:45:50 mroman_: I approve 18:45:52 2/3 majority to become a member of the esosc 18:45:58 *a new member 18:46:07 yeah, works for me 18:46:11 yeah 18:46:15 Our first approved standard 18:47:10 Yay! 18:48:12 `learn esosc is esoteric song contest 18:48:13 I knew that. 18:48:21 now we can work on that nbf 18:49:32 may i ask how it came the world needs an "Esoteric Standard Committee"? somebody requested it? 18:49:35 `run sed -i 's/$/ (also Esoteric Standard Committee)/' wisdom/esosc 18:49:37 No output. 18:49:44 RedSquirrel: 18:25 < mroman_> I'm founding the Esoteric Standard Committee (ESOSC). Who's in? :P 18:49:54 ah okay 18:52:59 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:54:14 so, nbf deals both with how the bf source file is stored and implementation details like EOF handling? 18:55:16 nortti, we could split the two specifications 18:55:26 "brainfuck conventions" 18:55:30 yeah, I agree that would be better 18:55:31 And "Normalized brainfuck" 18:56:02 because one is directed at source code, other at implementation 18:56:33 mroman_: what does that committee actually do? 18:56:43 myname, we make standards 18:57:46 also there needs to be a draft for adding lambda to brainfuck 18:58:13 and oop 18:58:48 also there will be an entirely different brainfuck standardisation sponsored by microsoft. 18:58:51 and arithmetical type system 18:59:07 oerjan: is it called windows? 18:59:59 * RedSquirrel giggles 19:01:17 myname: We make standards, yeah. 19:02:38 i am quite unsure if i want to join 19:02:52 on one hand it sounds totally awesome 19:03:01 on the other hand it sounds like it could be actual work 19:04:11 -!- archaic has joined. 19:04:19 There's some work involved, yes. 19:06:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:06:57 while uncountable amounts of new esolangs are invented everyday, the channel had to change its focus on inventing some standards ..it's not that anybody wants it.. they're just necessary 19:07:27 ? 19:08:10 ais523, there's now a standards committee 19:09:14 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:09:32 i should found another one that defines standards that are always slightly incompatible with ESOSC standards 19:09:41 are you satan? 19:09:53 of course 19:09:54 how many CHF does it cost to buy the official copy of a ESOSC standard 19:09:57 is it following on from the work of eso-std? 19:10:10 I remember that project collapsed when we couldn't agree on a format that the standards should be in 19:10:19 I'm not sure if anyone but me cared about the actual standardisation part 19:10:20 esoteric sexually transmitted disease? 19:10:30 esoteric standardisation, I guess 19:10:34 c.c 19:10:38 like superaids? 19:10:52 retroviruses are pretty esoteric 19:11:03 kmc: :D 19:11:26 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:11:54 -!- ^v has joined. 19:12:37 i would've called it just ESO 19:12:50 would be more puny in respect to ISO 19:13:14 and the first thing would be a definition of an OSE reference modell 19:13:25 :D 19:14:00 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:14:17 -!- ^v has joined. 19:19:34 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:19:59 -!- ^v has joined. 19:23:17 http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-A1.pdf <- and there it is. 19:24:11 the "hyphen" production isn't defined 19:24:20 also, Y10K bug 19:24:41 ah. 19:24:42 and numbers allow arbitrarily many leading zeros, not sure if that's intended 19:24:46 that should've been 19:26:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:27:15 Y10K bug :D 19:27:23 so... 19:27:33 myname: I second that 19:27:34 Y2^64 bug? 19:27:43 you're representing years in base 10? boring 19:30:58 Where do I voice the opinion that all specifications should be available in html format online, in addition to pdf? 19:31:48 here, probably 19:34:25 form a working group 19:34:28 download and fill out the esosc-request forms 19:34:45 then fax them to mroman_ 19:34:58 Sounds like a plan 19:35:19 you'll have to submit a change request through your national standards body 19:35:54 I'm not sure if SIS recognises ESOSC as a standards body 19:36:18 sis? 19:36:26 http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_404.htm 19:36:47 I think that's what our national standards body is called 19:36:58 Although I don't remember what it expands to 19:37:11 i know now.. i know where all this points at! learn the rules like a pro, to break them like an artist -picasso 19:37:12 html. 19:37:13 hm. 19:37:26 "SIS Swedish Standards Institute" 19:37:44 oh, you a swede? 19:37:49 where's the fun in eden when there is no forbidden fruits? 19:37:50 Yeah 19:38:12 this channel has a surprisingly large number of Scandinavians 19:38:28 even larger number of nordics 19:38:37 Apparently "SIS" officially stands for "Swedish Standards Institute" nowadays 19:38:53 that's interesting 19:38:55 like "UTC" officially stands for "Coordinated Universal Time"? 19:39:01 I guess it's a bit like how UTC expands incorrectly in both french and english 19:39:02 Yeah 19:39:14 absolutely 19:40:30 I don't have latex2html I think on my windows 19:40:48 no 19:42:06 https://github.com/huonw/brainfuck_macro Did you guys see this? 19:42:56 neat 19:43:36 http://winterdom.com/2002/03/regardingecma234 19:44:16 -!- Rgasuit has joined. 19:45:23 don't you know OWL? 19:45:32 the Web Ontology Language 19:49:06 http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/upcoming.txt 19:49:45 -!- Rgasuit has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:54:10 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:56:36 -!- conehead has joined. 20:03:58 also 20:04:05 this tool can't convert \begin{grammar} 20:08:34 hm the IE tab bugs haven't been _entirely_ eradicated, i see; i got a single tab that was colored again 20:08:46 oh well 20:09:18 mroman_: send it to grammar school 20:09:31 FireFly: http://eso.mroman.ch/ESOSC/ESOSC-2014-A1.html 20:09:52 Yay 20:10:13 except for the OT1bchbn thingy there 20:10:18 that looks wrong :D 20:10:43 oerjan: for what reason do you use IE master oerjan? 20:10:56 just to check it out? 20:12:11 no.. you love writing bug-reports @ MS .. right? 20:12:14 somebody should do Coccinelle for Rust 20:12:17 that would be awesome 20:13:37 RedSquirrel: laziness and habit 20:13:42 coccinelle? sounds dirty 20:14:19 also, the one time i tried to install chrome one of my favorite websites stopped working properly. 20:14:38 We're still missing a fancy logo though 20:15:09 and i don't bother with bug reports. 20:15:21 hmm 20:15:28 i see. 20:16:19 also, there needs to be someone who uses IE just to keep you guessing. 20:16:34 you are not the conventional nerd 20:16:35 i hear IE is pretty good these days 20:16:43 i like that 20:17:05 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 20:17:24 UTC is probably by analogy to UT0 etc. 20:17:48 hm 20:17:54 and the 2/3 is missing in the html output 20:17:57 -!- conehead has joined. 20:18:06 I was writing notes on something 20:18:15 And I've just written "HMM." 20:18:25 I also drew a ship, which I scribbled out 20:18:30 I am not very good at this 20:18:31 is it about hidden markov models? 20:18:36 Not really 20:18:40 Although sort of 20:18:49 But not really sort of 20:19:24 it could mean you want to travel 20:19:37 perhaps. 20:20:17 Her Majesty's Moonship 20:22:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 20:22:53 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*4d0b5b3d@*.77.11.91.61. 20:22:53 -!- oerjan has kicked RedSquirrel Bye hagb4rd. 20:24:54 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 20:31:32 Why didn't somebody create a Painfuck 20:31:35 (Portable Brainfuck) 20:31:49 that introduces new symbols for EOF and Newline handling 20:32:13 unless there already is such a thing 20:32:37 seeing as how many derivatives of bf exist certainly there should be one around them adressing those issues 20:33:05 -!- yorick has joined. 20:34:13 mroman_: in most of my esolangs nowadays, I have EOF = 0, NUL = 1, SOH = 2, etc. 20:34:50 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:35:36 I think lazy-k's eof=256 was pretty good 20:35:42 there are so many brainfuck derivatives but are there any brainfuck integrals 20:36:15 how would one construct a brainfuck integral? 20:37:32 not my problem 20:38:11 Didn't someone invent a brainfuck derivative that replaces the tape's cells with a real line? 20:38:40 I imagine the loop condition would involve integrals in that case, maybe that counts 20:39:17 kmc: what do you think of memoization of continuous functions 20:39:22 Rust now supports inline brainfuck: https://github.com/huonw/brainfuck_macro 20:39:33 shachaf: don't know, what do you think of it 20:39:45 it sounds p. interesting imo 20:40:09 i mean in particular the thing where you share most of the work between similar inputs to produce similar outputs 20:40:12 i don't know anything about it 20:40:13 okay 20:43:02 and also making it happen automatically with laziness when you use a particular sort of continuity?? 20:43:26 e.g. you have a bit stream and a prefix of it gets shared 20:43:42 er, that doesn't quite make sense 20:43:54 i don't know 20:46:53 -!- tertu has joined. 20:48:24 https://imgur.com/a/iDJMg 20:51:54 oh, community was cancelled 20:51:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:52:08 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:52:44 okay 20:52:58 as the saying goes, "they had a good run" 20:53:13 I kind of stopped watching / caring during this season 20:53:55 yeah i haven't watched anything past season 3 20:54:12 i still feel sad in an abstract sense though! 20:54:15 heh 20:57:20 (i probably shouldn't binge on tv shows that are still running, i just lose interest between seasons) 20:58:59 I've been re-watching Peep Show with douglass_ 20:59:29 it's one of the top few funniest shows I've ever seen 20:59:35 i got about 5 minutes into the first episode of peep show and it was just too painful 21:00:16 heh 21:00:21 yeah I could see that 21:02:29 my family got me hooked on endeavour during the holidays but it's now between series as well 21:02:45 i can only hope i still give a shit next easter 21:06:10 what's endeavour 21:07:23 kmc, prequel to Inspector Morse iirc 21:07:46 yes 21:14:23 what possessed me to listen to a song titled "Vienna Arcweld Fucked Gamelan Rigid Tracking" 21:14:43 "song" is perhaps an overstatement, it consists mostly of ominous ambient squeaking machinery noises 21:15:20 you can't go wrong with gamelan 21:18:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:19:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1VcuffZocA&index=6&list=PL4CD9537492AEA538 21:25:54 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:33:20 -!- tromp__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:38:38 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:44:38 fungots fall on fungot falls 21:44:38 kmc: it should use? which compiler, msvc? i'm inside your mom! 21:44:46 o_O 21:45:06 kmc, ooh, burn 21:45:13 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:45:39 that's really between the two of them 21:46:08 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 21:47:32 -!- edwardk has joined. 21:47:49 `addquote kmc: it should use? which compiler, msvc? i'm inside your mom! 21:47:49 Phantom__Hoover: now to sleep. first lecture day of 2006 tomorrow, wouldn't want to use some package or other 21:47:51 1193) kmc: it should use? which compiler, msvc? i'm inside your mom! 21:50:38 fungot has time travel all figured out. 21:50:38 oerjan: i don't know if that is true. 21:51:18 fungot seems unusually lucid today 21:51:18 Phantom__Hoover: my irix box could probably use one. 21:51:20 fungot: so you have to forget that you know time travel to use it? fascinating! 21:51:20 oerjan: i have just been extended to fnord words... interesting 21:52:06 fungot: no, you've always done that. maybe you are actually past fungot. 21:52:06 oerjan: i think this is the guy working on def-bf, who is root fnord" in the various schemes/ i 21:52:42 fungot: I don't think oerjan is working on that, no 21:52:43 FireFly: freedom is slavery ignorance is strenght bush is president. so counting ballots is really more difficult than merge sort or insertion sort.... of evil! 21:52:57 politics, eh 21:53:01 nice 21:53:37 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:54:14 I have said before, there is no infinite loop of write operation in SQL, only of read operation (such as a SELECT statement); however, that is probably sufficient for most things anyways. 21:56:07 edwardk: there seems to be an SO lens-related question which no one can answer http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23567695/implementing-polymorphic-deep-function-for-traversals-and-folds 21:56:25 (it's over my lens head, at least) 22:00:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:00:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:05:55 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 22:08:05 -!- tertu has joined. 22:08:26 oerjan: the usual solution to that sort of thing is to not take a rank-2 Traversal argument and return a Traversal result but take some sort of Over p f s t a b sort of argument and return a similar result 22:08:51 -!- ter2 has joined. 22:08:51 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:09:37 -!- tertu3 has joined. 22:09:37 so your caller needs to pick the types 22:09:39 or something 22:12:00 -!- tertu has joined. 22:13:29 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:14:05 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:22:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:29:12 shachaf: Rust's RefCell is kind of an interesting beast 22:29:17 I'm not sure if it's mis-named or not 22:29:27 it's not necessarily heap allocated 22:31:12 its purpose is basically that you can do &RefCell -> &mut T 22:31:36 and this moves the enforcement of mutable pointer aliasing rules to runtime 22:32:11 so a RefCell is a T (annotated so that LLVM won't assume it's immutable) alongside a word for this dynamic borrow flag 22:40:59 I found some ways to break said aliasing rules in servo 22:44:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:44:50 i should really learn about rust and multable pointer aliasing rules sometime 22:46:57 * Sgeo finds it mildly distressing that trying to envision lenses in Smalltalk is making him envision deliberately losing the property that the optics themselves are definable separately from the structures they traverse, solely because that fits better syntactically 22:47:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:47:08 (aLens,bLens,cLens) of: someStructure put: blah 22:47:10 Kind of ugly 22:52:07 shachaf: &mut references can't alias with any other reference 22:52:09 is the main thing 22:52:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:53:55 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 22:55:13 this is enforced statically, but you can break the rules in unsafe code and then enforce it dynamically, which is what std::cell implements 22:58:03 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:59:38 Pharo seems headed in a more OO direction 23:01:03 http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/advanced-reflection-in-pharo 23:01:23 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 23:06:39 my code mostly breaks the aliasing rules and then doesn't enforce them, and then writes are lost sometimes 23:07:04 I wonder if a less safe language would end up doing the right thing more often 23:07:13 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 23:07:13 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:14:42 why do you break the rules? 23:17:56 why you want rail for kalashnikov 23:25:59 shachaf: i see bizarre stuff http://stackoverflow.com/a/23575190/1088108 (also, pretty quick service) 23:35:02 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:49:01 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 23:59:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).