2014-04-01: 00:01:06 -!- tromp has joined. 00:04:03 I've released a new IDE with fun support for all esoteric languages - http://shikhin.in/2014/04/01/wodscipe-ide.html & http://f.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27885. 00:04:05 Check it out! 00:05:19 *all*? 00:05:42 oh. 00:05:54 it's internet jackass day 00:06:05 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:06:37 -!- augur has joined. 00:09:18 well, I don't actually mean that. 00:10:35 doesthiswork: i'll play it later. i'm just thinking of irl chemistry which is where axiomatism goes to die http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_quantum_chemistry 00:11:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:17:31 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:20:39 ooh nifty 00:34:52 elliott: D'oh, that was actually a typo. *some -- go check it out, it actually works :-) 00:35:22 does it all fit in a boot sector? 00:35:27 I almost managed to fit half a Forth into one. 00:36:24 elliott: We've split the editor and the interpreter. 00:36:35 aw 00:36:39 elliott: So, yes, the editor fits into a boot sector, and all interpreters fit in another 512B. 00:36:46 But, hey, the editor's a quite functional ed :-) 00:36:53 I'm sure you can halve them both 00:36:56 just get nasty 00:38:47 The editor's... really nasty. 00:39:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:39:49 it's just ed! 00:39:53 it can't possibly need all those bytes 00:40:36 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:42:46 -!- augur has joined. 00:43:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:24 -!- augur has joined. 01:05:05 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 01:11:17 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:11:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:41:25 Is it wrong for me to want Snap on WAI? 01:41:48 yes 01:41:57 Also, is there any good reason that Scotty doesn't allow for installing middleware in a route? 01:42:09 I certainly don't want to apply jsonp to my entire application 01:42:26 (Not that I like Scotty. I really, really, don't) 01:43:25 Or jsonp 01:53:59 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:04:13 re: freenode-G+ integration: I lolled 02:05:28 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:05:52 have you read the paper on managed time in programming languages? 02:05:56 -!- ^v has joined. 02:06:00 no 02:07:27 well it is interesting http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/211297/managedtime.pdf 02:10:29 "Section 6 concludes with a future of managed time." 02:12:44 what else would come after section 5 "The past and present of managed time" 02:58:48 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:59:41 -!- Sellyme has joined. 03:00:52 I was looking at some things and found a Java program written by a pretty bad compiler... to create a text value with "pick one" written in it, the code looks like: temp7 = new TTText("A"); hand = temp7; hand.keyboard('\b', false); hand.keyboard('p', false); hand.keyboard('i', false); hand.keyboard('c', false); ... hand.stoppedTyping(); notebook.gets(hand); 03:04:01 I wonder what was the reason for the \b. 03:06:47 Jafet: to delete the A 03:07:23 or is that a word boundary 03:07:25 ah well 03:07:26 o space k a y 03:29:33 -!- BeingUntoDeath has quit. 03:37:07 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:43:29 -!- tertu has joined. 03:44:37 The \b is backspace, I think, to delete the "A" 03:45:28 And, I think the macro recorder in Microsoft Office probably does a better job than this... 03:46:36 (Actually the program contains a comment that says \b is the backspace key) 04:22:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:31:39 There are also things like this: temp1 = new TTNumber(1); hand = temp1; temp1 = hand; TTVacuum vacuum = new TTVacuum(); hand = vacuum; hand.keyboard('e', false); hand.stoppedTyping(); vacuum.suckUp(temp1); (temp1 and hand are both local variables of type TTObject) 04:35:14 -!- conehead has joined. 04:39:08 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 04:44:49 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 04:46:23 http://shikhin.in/2014/04/01/wodscipe-ide.html http://github.com/Shikhin/wodscipe 04:47:13 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: conehead). 04:47:58 -!- Zerker has joined. 04:51:31 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:51:59 -!- ^v has joined. 04:52:27 -!- conehead has joined. 04:56:45 kmc: Just learned that Snap framework apparently uses a Haskell library for SSL that uses OpenSSL, and someone on the mailing list was asking why thye're not using the pure Haskell version 04:57:10 I think I am that much more confident in Snap doing the right thing (in that they're doing the right thing here using OpenSSL) 04:59:47 I'd trust some random Haskell code over OpenSSL :/ 05:05:06 Random Haskell code implementing SSL? Really? 05:05:26 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 05:08:31 pure haskell version also has some oddities, e.g. not reading modern key formats 05:12:16 `coins 05:12:17 mariolacoin fobcoin cuttcoin argfalcoin pathcoin subjicidecoin sympcoin resscoin middcoin torcoin ext()coin bitioncoin parackcoin clunecoin pictcoin billiicoin reverecoin andcoin bfirdinarizcoin ~coin 05:13:05 the channel for the freenode/google integration is so much fun 05:14:53 -!- Zerker has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:19:16 I was hoping they actually changed NickServ to suppport it 05:22:20 ?type fix id 05:22:21 a 05:22:28 ?type fix id :: Void 05:22:29 Not in scope: type constructor or class `Void' 05:23:00 -!- Zerker has joined. 05:23:19 Did... Reddit implement face recognition technology for an April Fools prank? 05:23:20 ?type fix id :: AprilFOols 05:23:21 Not in scope: type constructor or class `AprilFOols' 05:23:21 Perhaps you meant `AprilFools' (line 153) 05:23:25 ?type fix id :: AprilFools 05:23:26 AprilFools 05:23:53 I mean, the webcam video genuinely was recongizing where my face was 05:24:13 that must have taken, like, three lines of OpenCV calls 05:24:16 Sgeo: I would assume they just picked an off-the-shelf one. There's one as a standard module in OpenCV. 05:25:01 I couldn't do anything but downvote 05:25:08 But then I hadn't read the blog yet 05:26:47 happy internet uselessness day 05:27:48 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:29:11 I've got a weekly exercise session to run for that machine learning course, and I didn't even think of putting any FOOLERY in the questions. :/ 05:34:57 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 05:45:52 @yow! 05:45:52 Yow! And then we could sit on the hoods of cars at stop lights! 05:50:12 @arr 05:50:12 Drink up, me 'earties 05:54:15 -!- password2 has joined. 06:05:39 If I believe something for half a second, does that still count as falling for it?/ 06:06:14 yes. feel shame. 06:06:38 http://www.nordicgoacademy.com/2014/04/01/9x9-go-has-been-solved/ 06:06:41 I didn't even read the article 06:07:41 god damn it, the internet has made me hate a holiday as innocuous as april fool's 06:08:30 "Similarly, now we have type holes that let us see what types should be inserted in various spots. -fvalue-holes is the next logical step, to tell us what terms we should be writing." 06:08:43 Isn't that what automated proofs in dependently typed languages assist with? 06:11:20 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:16:55 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 06:21:17 -!- tromp_ has joined. 06:23:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 06:30:27 -!- jix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:30:35 -!- jix has joined. 06:34:49 i fell for it even though i read Sgeo's first message, and even though i was informed the first thing in the morning that it's 1.4. and if i go to work i should be careful. 06:34:54 -!- olsner has joined. 06:35:26 (i asked why i got a warning instead of trickery, but apparently i'm too gullible for it to be interesting.) 06:35:26 @messages 06:35:26 You don't have any messages 06:36:20 I don't get the meaning of precise-exceptions 06:41:03 -!- shikhout has joined. 06:41:38 Sgeo: on some processors exceptions, such as div-by-zero, etc. are not guaranteed to be reported in exact temporal location 06:41:55 other instructions may have already been executed by the time it is reported 06:43:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:43:45 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 06:44:17 `coins 06:44:18 divzerosisivecoin phildcoin smal-xcoin bash-01coin asingcoin aarghcoin shacoin magincoin cratorycoin upakcoin possologelcoin perparcoin opparcivilcoin etchcoin selfcoin iotoncoin braincoin nutcoin niocoin kensigcoin 06:44:40 we have bots!? 06:44:55 ^celebrate 06:44:55 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 06:44:55 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 06:44:55 /^\ c.c |\ |\| | >\ c.c /< | /| |/< c.c /| 06:44:56 (_|¯´\ /`\ 06:44:57 |_) (_| |_) 06:49:40 "For light computing there will now be two servers, brute.aalto.fi and force.aalto.fi." 06:49:43 Amusing nomenclature. 06:50:54 "Mathematica, MatLAB etc will be removed from kosh and lyta [general shell servers], and it is now forbidden to run CPU and/or memory-intensive processes there, and Aalto IT may kill those processes. -- There will be two new Ubuntu shell servers (brute.aalto.fi, force.aalto.fi), both of which have 256GB RAM and 16 cores. These are meant for light computing. All users are asked to be ... 06:51:00 ... considerate of other users and nice their processes. Any commercial use of these servers is prohibited. As an extreme example, 'mining' of any electronic currencies is strictly prohibited." 06:51:04 Makes me wonder if anyone has actually mined some bitcoins on the shell server. 06:51:28 kosh and lyta were nice names too 06:54:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:54:26 "Solve::nsmet: This system cannot be solved with the methods available to Solve." Mathematica, you've let me down! 07:08:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:09:55 <^v> hey 07:10:07 <^v> esolang.org is going down 07:10:14 <^v> due to lack of funding 07:11:07 <^v> here is the info: http://goo.gl/6zh5 07:11:12 but esolangs.org is here to stay :D 07:11:48 http://www.scp-wiki.net/ aww, such super cute pets 07:12:14 oh did scp do a apr fools thing? 07:13:06 yes 07:13:46 awwwww it's the best one! 07:14:08 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:15:21 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 07:15:28 I should sleep 07:15:37 -!- elliott has kicked ^v it's april fool's day, not just be stupid day. 07:15:39 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 07:16:22 is the link goatse or what 07:17:09 -!- ^v has joined. 07:17:14 why does goo.gl not have an expander... 07:17:16 As of this line, neither the most recent link I linked to nor the most recent link ^v linked to is goatse 07:17:46 well what is it then. lemonparty? screamer? 2048? pentagon papers? 07:17:53 I am aware of the potential race condition, but it seemed to not have occurred 07:18:41 jesus christ dude 07:18:59 It is not lemonparty nor screamer nor 2048. I am not sure what pentagon papers is, but it's not that either, unless pentagon papers means something really non-obvious 07:19:31 (It's rickroll) 07:19:38 I should sleep 07:24:40 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:25:00 <^v> No, its illuminati 07:29:45 <^v> http://i.imgur.com/9IR3V86.png 07:29:47 <^v> see? 07:29:54 <^v> its illuminati 07:30:02 <^v> they are taking over the world 07:31:12 `addquote It is not lemonparty nor screamer nor 2048. I am not sure what pentagon papers is, but it's not that either 07:31:14 1180) It is not lemonparty nor screamer nor 2048. I am not sure what pentagon papers is, but it's not that either 07:34:30 Fark put up their April Fools Day prank 07:38:30 fark still exists? wow! 07:38:41 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 07:38:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 07:39:30 what's fark? 07:40:14 went to the page (I think) and it wasn't obvious, so I left 07:40:45 so they just reset the page back to some day in 2004? lame 07:41:37 I imagine it's great if you were a regular visitor in 2004 07:43:35 I actually was a regular visitor in 2004 07:43:36 ;__; 07:44:06 fungot: what would you do if your toilet came to life 07:44:06 kmc: we need to get and up here, shouldn't there be, exactly, i don't get to live. your trial that would appear to you in the bedroom. or any room with that." 07:44:08 was it a good joke for you then? 07:44:16 doubtful 07:44:18 * kmc -> bed 07:44:24 glhf 07:45:22 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:48:41 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 07:50:41 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:52:48 -!- Tritonio has joined. 07:55:03 hmm, is "passionated" a word? 07:59:01 it is now! 08:25:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:46:41 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:59:00 @tell olsner It is if you word it. 08:59:01 Consider it noted. 08:59:24 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:05:06 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 09:18:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:43:04 ion: it also depends on how it's encoded, and the size of a word on your system 10:01:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 10:12:53 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 10:13:27 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:13:37 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:57 -!- yorick has joined. 10:26:04 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:26:25 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:34:04 -!- JesseH has joined. 10:34:32 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 10:59:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:23:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:34:45 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:42:00 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:42:17 -!- yorick has joined. 11:47:08 -!- tertu has joined. 12:03:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:32:55 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:34:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:35:03 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:38:20 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:40:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:41:58 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:43:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:43:44 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 13:11:28 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:12:37 -!- vravn has joined. 13:43:30 Has everyone here checked out Wodscipe? It's an insane IDE for esoteric languages! http://shikhin.in/2014/04/01/wodscipe-ide.html (github: http://github.com/shikhin/wodscipe)! 13:44:07 I have read that article about it, at least 13:44:20 zzo38: Try it out :-) 15:03:32 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: bbs). 15:18:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:26:30 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:44:21 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:50:39 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:55:35 -!- olsner has joined. 15:57:31 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 15:57:50 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 16:01:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:30:32 I've grown to hate Smalltalk and Modula 16:30:34 and Fortran 16:30:48 and everything that is similar to it 16:31:19 okay 16:31:23 thank you for telling us 16:31:41 good growth 16:32:03 elliott: Thank you for listening. 16:32:09 I really appreciate it. 16:32:35 In other channels I would have gotten banned for such promising statements. 16:33:02 i didn't think smalltalk, modula and fortran were very similar. 16:33:37 mroman: that can still be arranged if you'd like. 16:33:42 are you sure you don't just hate programming languages in general. 16:33:46 oerjan: smalltalk and modula are at least both early OO languages... 16:33:55 and fortran is um 16:33:56 just plain early? 16:33:57 oerjan: No. Just the old ones that feel impractical ;) 16:33:58 ion: if someone worded it, it wasn't me (looked like swenglish to me) 16:34:03 feel impractical?? 16:34:11 have you ever read a line of smalltalk in your life? 16:34:18 it's far more comparable to something like Ruby than Fortran... 16:34:23 elliott: depends on if it's modula 2 or 3, i think. (i learned 2 which wasn't very oo iirc) 16:34:32 elliott: I've even written lines in smalltalk 16:34:59 honestly the worst part about smalltalk is that workspace thingy 16:35:09 other than that it's not so bad actually 16:35:20 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:35:30 and eclipse, the worst part of java 16:35:47 Eclipse isn't that tightly coupled to java 16:35:49 (though Workspace is just the REPL type thing, maybe you didn't mean that?) 16:36:13 anyway I'm actually so tired of bickering about this stuff and am hereby retiring from it. 16:36:25 That'd be best 16:36:42 you should try it too 16:36:43 I obviously wasn't prepared to discuss it anyway ;) 16:38:04 There really isn't a way to return an open array from a procedure in Modula? 16:38:45 well, I also retired from complaining, just more relapses 16:39:47 oerjan: I wasn't aware. silly Wirth reusing language names so much 16:39:54 or, maybe I was aware but only dimly 16:40:08 I'm not asking you to complain. And I'm not complaining. 16:43:23 we are, by the way, now bickering over this. 16:43:54 no we're not! 16:44:12 I see. 16:45:01 oerjan: No, *you* are not. 16:48:45 zzo38: i disagree. 16:49:30 fungot: What's your position on this. 16:49:31 mroman: he be tha heart an' soul o" tiles because my father, and i would not be so dismissive of. 16:50:09 -!- ^v has joined. 16:50:22 * oerjan smells durkon 16:50:42 and possibly vaarsuvius 16:52:44 FORTRAN is including many things that they forgot to put in modern programming languages, such as FREQUENCY statement, arithmetic IF, arithmetic overflow checking, ASSIGN, etc and some of these features have been removed or made useless in Fortran 95 and newer versions. 17:00:46 Although FORTRAN does have some new features which are pretty good too, such as coarrays, and a few others. 17:07:26 incindentally I hate all programming languages 17:07:46 I guess that's true 17:07:49 deep down I know it 17:12:25 mroman: It's not often that I quote Stroustrup, but I like this statement: "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." 17:12:58 yes 17:13:27 two kinds of fungot 17:13:28 kmc: me too! neat, having dinner together, and i know that, i'm no better than my own, but 17:14:28 fungot: now you're going around being disturbingly appropriate again 17:14:28 oerjan: get down! take a load and unload the camels for a second, any spell you are working on. 17:15:20 two fungot (or is the plural "fungots"?) and "me too", does that make three? 17:15:21 int-e: we need to get that " video games, but you and the idiot paladin understands better, i once saw head-butt an elderly gnome woman into a coma, he's been too tired and panicked! it's all i could get the scene. 17:15:37 oots? 17:15:47 ^style 17:15:48 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots* pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 17:15:53 thanks 17:19:13 fungot, what do you think about fungoots 17:19:14 Jafet: this " treasure" idea intrigues me and i wish. but elan, we're doing here in, say, " hold half-orc" for the hell, i rolled a 1 gp fee, we'll see if, for that kind of stuff, i figured that one out on my own, but 17:19:30 I think this corpus isn't quite large enough. 17:20:11 "iwcs" would be the irregular webcomics? 17:20:17 wouldn't the plural be "fungi" 17:20:32 fungot: how do you pluralize yourself 17:20:33 kmc: for that, my family would like my mode of transit returned, do you know that no one leaves. roy, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, do i not, lieutenant, 17:20:49 "pluralize", not "multiply" 17:21:16 huh I usually don't see fungot do that 17:21:17 kmc: too much clean and safe places for us, " oh, i get it. in that case, i will be up here on my throne, being awesome and everyone here could use a little. you sound so bad, really, all my molecules, so that the dwarf, " stabby" 17:21:23 ^style discworld 17:21:23 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 17:21:38 fungot: how do you feel about imps? 17:21:38 int-e: " good heavens. really... i have nothing but the endless glass rooms. 17:22:07 * int-e wonders whether fungot can recognize handwriting now 17:22:07 int-e: " ah," said ponder. " uh... and there's still more scumble in the jug." 17:22:40 * int-e realizes for the first time that fungot is all lower case ALL THE TIME. 17:22:41 int-e: on the other hand, anyone you managed to hit instantly became your foe, so it can get interesting, technically you'll rank as a corporal," said colon, but without much enthusiasm. even beggars need someone to watch over imp that night was day, people would have joined in. 17:23:12 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:23:13 T FUNGOT HUALAGAHALAHAGAGLAHL 17:23:30 yes, including the fUnGoT nickname recognition 17:23:40 tea fungot 17:23:41 kmc: this was a gross breach of etiquette. " she's all right. you have to look hard. the hogfather's artificial stomach was now at groin level. 17:23:52 fungot: c.c 17:23:52 kmc: the whole family, including the floor and looked down at the table in the rats chamber repaired?' he said. 17:23:52 c.c.c 17:23:52 c.c 17:23:54 ouch. 17:23:57 myndzi: TOO SLOW 17:24:09 * kmc wonders if the ordering of messages is consistent for all users in a channel 17:24:15 I suspect not, at least between servers? 17:24:40 In the past I've seen messages from the same user reordered. 17:25:32 discworld was a bad choice, I want to get this image out of my head ... 17:26:04 fungot: i'll be back in a bit 17:26:05 kmc: ' is there something you want to go by yourself?' 17:26:16 fungot: yes, riding TRAAAAAINS 17:26:16 kmc: ' right,' said the count, thrusting the axe aside. ' good name.' 17:26:34 fungot: s/go/do/ and it would have been perfect. 17:26:35 int-e: teppic joined him on the 17:26:56 .... train? 17:27:21 That's an euphemism I have not heard before. 17:27:24 the only 1676 mm gauge railway in North America? 17:44:21 ... still in operation? 17:45:19 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 17:46:24 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:46:52 -!- ^v has joined. 17:54:46 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:57:22 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:58:40 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:05:23 kmc: messages by yourself show up instantaneously in most clients so there's semifrequent mild inconsitencies 18:08:36 i assume irc makes no attempt at chronologically ordering messages arriving from different servers 18:08:57 “The Sampoong Department Store collapse was a structural failure that occurred on June 29, 1995 [...] It was the deadliest building collapse since the Circus Maximus collapse in c. 140 AD” 18:09:09 hm, _is_ there even any original timestamp? 18:10:41 that circus maximus one was a long-lasting record for sure 18:11:35 wait it didn't say that beat it 18:12:07 i'd imagine the twin towers might hold that record now? 18:12:21 There is a very brief mention on the article for the Circus Maximus, in the citation footnotes, of 13000 people killed by a partial collapse of the stadium. 18:12:25 they're probably only counting accidents. 18:12:27 oops 18:12:43 13000, ok that record might _still_ hold then. 18:13:50 If you really want to kill the most people, though, you should build a dam in china 18:14:01 Or a chemical factory in india 18:15:16 just do that mediterranean basin thing 18:15:49 takes a few millennia to set up, though 18:17:43 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 18:21:02 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 18:22:24 just spend a few hundred years filling the atmosphere with excess CO₂ 18:22:51 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:23:38 burn! 18:25:28 Wouldn't you only ruin a few million coastal dwellers who by most accounts don't even give us cheap consumer products 18:26:31 kmc: um that wouldn't be likely to empty the basin, would it? 18:28:41 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 18:29:10 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:36:48 -!- password2 has joined. 18:41:14 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:44:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:44:02 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:02:36 http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/04/01/like-a-glove-april-fools-efforts-from-samsung-htc-toshiba-all-share-the-same-punchline 19:04:31 :D 19:11:01 -!- Guest27452 has changed nick to Zom-B. 19:12:22 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:15:06 Core War is currently high on the programming reddit :-) http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/21xfrs/the_spring_2014_core_war_tournament_celebrating/ 19:15:25 * impomatic hopes quite a few people will enter the tournament... 19:17:19 -!- Sorella has joined. 19:17:22 -!- Sorella_ has joined. 19:22:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:28:23 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 19:29:30 -!- olsner has joined. 19:35:05 motif on wayland!? 19:35:33 sounds too boring to approve of, however crazy it may be 19:39:38 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:43:58 -!- heroux has joined. 20:02:38 -!- conehead has joined. 20:05:26 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:24:21 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 20:36:47 darn i had 1024, 512 and 256 20:41:04 you know how it saves your game when you close the tab? well you can cheat by opening multiple tabs as savepoints 20:41:49 fancy 20:42:25 you can also cheat by changing the numbers around to say what you want 20:45:52 you can also cheat by not playing at all 20:46:18 shachaf: there's "taking the rubiks cube apart and reassembling it solved" cheating and then there's "moving all the stickers" cheating 20:46:19 no that's how you win 20:46:25 what shachaf said 20:46:39 now you've made me want to play DEFCON 20:46:58 -!- conehead has joined. 20:49:10 I want a proper programming language to (re-)write my OS in 20:49:23 the only winning move is to play, perfectly, waiting for your opponent to make a mistake 20:52:55 olsner: Rust? 20:53:43 kmc: Are you on a team for it? 20:53:56 heh 20:54:00 I don't know what you mean by that quite 20:54:07 I'm on Team Rust in that I plug Rust every chance I get :P 20:54:08 I guess I should try, I hear there have been some improvements for runtime-less rust code 20:54:18 yeah, it's pretty slick now 20:54:22 kmc: Sorry, I meant in relation to 16:46 < kmc> now you've made me want to play DEFCON 20:54:24 http://blog.theincredibleholk.org/blog/2013/11/18/booting-to-rust/ 20:54:26 OH 20:54:26 oh haha 20:54:28 you don't mean that defcon 20:54:30 yeah 20:54:31 you mean the missile shooting one 20:54:50 yes 20:54:51 pew pew 20:54:57 We're gonna have srsmode competition from dragon sector this year :( 20:54:59 but I may want something that's more like a mix between rust and assembly 20:55:01 well, it's a good thing 20:55:03 but it's scary 20:55:41 olsner: in what way? 20:59:31 you can do inline assembly in Rust; you can also link object files from Rust, C, assembly pretty easily 21:01:57 not sure :) but e.g. something like inline rust for the code that's too tedious to do manually in assembly 21:08:53 heh 21:08:53 ok 21:09:20 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:09:59 I've been playing with the idea of building an optimizing assembler too 21:11:50 (... implementing actual functionality is not the primary activity of this project) 21:15:59 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:17:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:19:05 -!- trn has joined. 21:19:12 UEFI's console API takes UTF-16 o.O 21:19:23 i blame microsoft 21:19:48 obviously, with the PE32 format too 21:19:56 and the windows x64 calling convention 21:20:16 at least it's not latin-1 21:20:32 cp437 for life 21:21:06 code page "whatever matches the font loaded on the graphics card" 21:21:17 Bike: I like how on the web "Latin-1" means Windows-1252 always 21:21:25 like in tags, etc. 21:21:37 aah, the web 21:22:11 also the algorithm for parsing numerical character entities (which are supposed to be Unicode codepoints) has special cases for 0x80 - 0x9F (the ISO-2022 C1 control code range) which map to the most likely printable Windows codepage characters 21:22:15 -___- 21:26:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:29:13 oh well, I think I'll do a trial rewrite of the kernel in rust ... the biggest horror is that I'll probably have to use a linker 21:29:32 CP437 (the PC character set) is good idea. 21:37:31 -!- boily has joined. 21:43:08 but tomorrow! now I shall sleep 21:45:42 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:46:07 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:46:29 can lambdabot send differed subconscious messages in people's sleep? 21:46:31 -!- heroux has joined. 21:46:59 @faq 21:46:59 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 21:47:23 . o O ( which reminds me of a request to change this to a link to the FAQ on the haskell wiki ) 21:47:44 boily: it only works if your subconscious is pure though 21:47:50 darn. 21:48:24 ain't gonna happen soon. my subconscious is having lascivious thoughts of a grilled bagel, with chipotle hummus, random cheese, spinach and italian tomatoes. 21:49:47 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 21:54:40 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:54:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:54:42 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:54:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:54:43 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:55:26 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:55:29 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:57:09 -!- vravn has joined. 21:59:50 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:01:27 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:01:40 -!- MoALTz has joined. 22:05:24 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:15:17 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNCLEAN CHICKEN). 22:38:29 wish lambdabot would rejoin ##crypto 22:38:56 @join ##crypto 22:39:08 int-e: you should add kmc to online.rc 22:39:11 @admin + kmc 22:39:24 elliott approved 22:40:21 thx 22:40:28 what's online.rc 22:41:01 the file of commands lambdabot loads at startup 22:49:00 int-e: you should add shachaf to online.rc 22:49:32 @admin + shachaf 22:49:34 elliott, could you make lambdabot join #cs-york? 22:49:35 shachaf approved 22:50:18 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:01 (elliott, that is the University of York computer science channel) 23:01:43 you'll have to ask int-e for permanence, but sure 23:01:44 @join #cs-york 23:01:49 it runs ghc not yhc though 23:02:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: join ALL the channels). 23:02:33 Thank you 23:02:59 And we are for some strange reason slowly working on a new York Haskell Compiler 23:03:30 Which of course is called the New York Haskell Compiler 23:12:08 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:14:03 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:33:29 TIL 5 ^ (4 ^ (3 ^ (2 ^ 1)))) is rather large 23:35:38 `run python -c 'print 5 ^ (4 ^ (3 ^ (2 ^ 1))))' 23:35:39 ​ File "", line 1 \ print 5 ^ (4 ^ (3 ^ (2 ^ 1)))) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax 23:35:46 `run python -c 'print 5 ^ (4 ^ (3 ^ (2 ^ 1)))' 23:35:47 1 23:36:32 kmc, Python has the wrong definition of ^ 23:36:34 Try ** 23:37:06 i know 23:37:08 that'sthejoke 23:37:15 also I just realized most lines of C code end with a sad face 23:37:16 ); 23:37:24 Also I regret giving #cs-york lambdabot 23:37:31 Mostly I regret giving me lambdabot, though 23:37:48 what are they doing to the poor thing 23:37:57 oh christ is it like lymia 23:38:06 > foldl (+) [1..] 23:38:54 *facepalm* 23:39:06 -!- Chiyo has joined. 23:39:17 hello Chiyo 23:39:28 hello :) 23:39:38 `ello Chiyo 23:39:39 hellChiyo 23:39:41 `relcome Chiyo 23:39:42 ​Chiyo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:39:45 ineffective 23:40:17 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:40:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:40:54 Don't be too ineffective. 23:41:06 `addquote Don't be too ineffective. 23:41:08 1181) Don't be too ineffective. 23:41:59 -!- Chiyo has left. 23:42:59 I wonder what our user retention would be like without HackEgo. 23:43:30 what was it like during the recent HackEgo downtime? 23:43:58 I think all the hello/welcome jokes are played out and were never a good idea for actually making newcomers feel welcome. 23:48:46 -!- Sorella_ has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 23:52:23 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:54:21 -!- ^v has joined. 23:59:44 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:59:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 23:59:46 -!- nisstyre has joined. 2014-04-02: 00:02:29 we need to A/B-test that shit 00:02:39 who wants the title of #esoteric growth hacker 00:03:08 `rm bin/*elcom* 00:03:08 rm: cannot remove `bin/*elcom*': No such file or directory 00:03:12 `run rm bin/*elcom* 00:03:13 No output. 00:03:16 consider your aim hecked 00:03:49 -!- tertu has joined. 00:04:05 for a/b testing we're gonna need two hack egos, and which one a given person commands has to be random 00:05:10 two hacks ego 00:06:48 good point 00:23:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:33:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:36:21 `homestarrunnerlist 00:36:22 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: homestarrunnerlist: not found 00:38:48 `coins 00:38:50 battscoin exedcoin anicecoin metalcoin toucoin lcourbelcoin rocumcoin mannahcoin this=thagoncoin mercoin epicoin sootcoin entectncoin smarcoin shwhaltritcoin madrainfucker)coin attacoin befuncorcoin reraturcoin smncoin 00:41:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:44:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:44:33 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:51:59 wtf @ this=thagocoin 01:08:28 sootcoin 01:17:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:01 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:23:29 -!- ^v has joined. 02:40:10 -!- xpte has joined. 02:42:14 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:57:47 -!- darwin has joined. 02:57:50 -!- darwin has left ("Leaving"). 02:58:35 -!- darwin has joined. 02:58:48 -!- darwin has left ("Leaving"). 03:43:10 `coins 03:43:11 timinuschecoin watecoin haffe7coin enamoucaleverixcoin sbancoin grofcoin nicecoin braintegdcoin nyboxcoin infalcatcoin ctorcoin laziacoin bf-rlecoin frackcoin thumbercoin elogiccoin loadcoin shructioncoin domcoin supecoin 03:43:54 `run cat /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits 03:43:54 ​#!/bin/bash \ ulimit -f 10240 \ ulimit -l 0 \ ulimit -u 128 \ exec -- "$@" 03:45:52 `as86 nop 03:45:53 90 03:45:58 `dis86 90 03:45:59 nop; 03:46:09 `dis86 4daf5f1e95 03:46:09 scasq; pop rdi; invalid; xchg ebp, eax; 04:04:06 Does... sdelete not like me trying to delete directories that ... have files? 04:09:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 04:17:58 that's handy 04:18:13 is it just using objdump? 04:18:36 `run file $(which dis86) 04:18:37 ​/hackenv/bin/dis86: ASCII text 04:18:48 `cat /hackenv/bin/dis86 04:18:48 bin="$1"; shift; unhex "$bin" | udcli -noff -nohex -64 "$@" | perl -pe 's/^ *//; s/ *\n/; /;' 04:21:47 ah 04:38:35 -!- conehead has joined. 05:09:42 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:10:18 -!- tromp has joined. 05:14:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:29:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 05:32:02 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:42:37 `cat /hackenv/bin/as86 05:42:38 as="$1"; shift; echo ".intel_syntax noprefix; $as" | gcc "$@" -c -x assembler /dev/stdin -o /tmp/as86.o && objcopy -O binary /tmp/as86.{o,bin} && xxd -p /tmp/as86.bin 05:44:33 Love the hardcoded tmpnams 05:45:16 -!- password2 has joined. 05:45:55 yolo 05:48:02 `run as86 ret & as86 nop; wait 05:48:03 90 \ c3 05:48:42 aha i got a c3 \ c3 after some tries 05:49:22 `run for i in `seq 8 15`; do as86 r$i &; done; wait 05:49:23 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `;' \ bash: -c: line 0: `for i in `seq 8 15`; do as86 r$i &; done; wait' 05:51:20 `run for i in `seq 8 15`; do (as86 r$i &); done; wait 05:51:21 ​/dev/stdin: Assembler messages: \ /dev/stdin:1: Error: no such instruction: `r12' \ /dev/stdin: Assembler messages: \ /dev/stdin:1: Error: no such instruction: `r11' 05:51:29 oops 05:51:38 `run for i in `seq 8 15`; do (as86 'push r'$i &); done; wait 05:51:39 objcopy: error: the input file '/tmp/as86.o' is empty 05:51:56 Also awesome bash syntax 05:52:47 i think "& done" will also work 05:52:49 You don't need a subshell; for ...; do foo & done is valid. 05:52:58 I lost. :/ 05:53:10 I lost 05:55:06 lost? 06:01:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:03:20 -!- olsner has joined. 06:05:01 I just lost the game. 06:05:54 yeah, that one 06:06:20 oh. 06:08:55 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:11:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:25:33 -!- password2 has joined. 07:13:22 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:13:54 -!- EgoBot has joined. 07:24:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:29:30 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 07:37:41 -!- S1 has joined. 07:38:17 `coins 07:38:19 fractioncarandrijcoin ortacoin minicoin braincoin singtoniimtitiicoin easepolicoin highcoin bracoin brackcoin shakencalcoin minecoin starcoin timicoin eplieycoin smucoin easepolcoin concacoin filosophycoin ortcoin 0x25coin 08:06:34 So, the three big Haskell frameworks are each moving to use different streaming solutions 08:06:38 *web frameworks 08:07:53 what do you mean by streaming solutions 08:09:10 conduits/pipes/io-streams 08:09:32 ok 08:09:45 unfortunate that the haskell community has still not converged on one of those 08:09:59 haskell has lots of ecosystem fragmentation 08:10:09 or whatever the hell you would call that 08:11:55 * kmc -> bed 08:15:15 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:29:16 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 08:30:24 http://jaspervdj.be/posts/2013-10-22-websockets-0.8.html 08:30:29 Interesting appendix 08:31:03 (essentially: wondering if io-streams may be better for libraries as a lower-level thing that may work well with higher-level things like conduits and pipes, I think) 08:33:11 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:35:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:37:21 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:43:51 hmm, if I'm reading this right rust emits a stack check using TLS at the start of every function, and this can't be disabled because something about memory safety 08:44:16 or maybe it can, but I'm reading the wrong series of closed bugs 08:51:14 (that the stack check is 37 extra bytes for every function is great too) 08:51:59 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:00:40 -!- yorick has joined. 10:16:38 -!- boily has joined. 10:52:18 -!- maurer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:53:25 -!- maurer has joined. 11:02:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:44:21 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:02:11 :\ 12:18:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:35:04 Is it wrong to be amused at the name of Ludwig Bieberbach 12:49:53 I'm bringing Bieberbach! (yeah!) 12:50:09 i was going to add another line to that, but I can Nazi a way to make it rhyme 12:51:25 but yeah, no one was as schlicht as that guy 13:00:12 -!- spiette has joined. 13:01:21 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:06:12 kmc: I had an explicit request (from mm_freak) for removing lambdabot from ##crypto. Can you please sort this out? I don't want to be part of that fight. 13:07:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:18:17 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:27:44 -!- spiette has joined. 13:28:05 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 13:29:21 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:50:11 does it collide with an existing prefix there or something? 13:51:01 according to chanserv, kmc is an op of ##crypto and mm_freak is not 13:53:02 I wonder if they discuss actual cryptography there now 13:53:29 -!- Giannos_Gr has joined. 13:53:43 elliott: I want to avoid going back and forth on this. 13:54:00 ok, I don't know if there's history or anything, just providing data 13:54:18 yes, I appreciate that 13:55:03 residual #haskell-ops instincts :) 13:59:47 -!- Giannos_Gr has left. 14:34:14 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:02:22 -!- xpte has joined. 15:07:20 -!- TodPunk has joined. 15:08:32 * int-e ponders " Also I regret giving #cs-york lambdabot" 15:18:46 int-e, lambdabot's been kicked now 15:40:45 @botsnack 15:40:45 :) 15:42:19 @botcrack 15:42:19 :) 15:42:53 @botsuck 15:42:53 :) 15:52:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:03:58 And now I am doing scary Python programming 16:04:30 (for one reason or another I'm restricted to one file and it's up to 500 lines) 16:23:00 Make sure to use as many different classes as you can 16:23:11 It enhances maintainability 16:27:42 Ok when did applybot break 1500 lines 16:27:53 I don't remember this happening 16:33:32 Jafet: Ludwig Bieberbach doesn't make much sense to me. 16:33:44 would be funnier to combine only one classical composer with bieber 16:36:35 mmmm scary python 16:37:02 I was going to say that Bach was not a classical composer, but forgot about Carl 16:38:36 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:40:27 I've heard a theory that python is a good language because you can write ~10^3 lines in it before your code becomes unmaintainable, compared to perl where it's ~10^2 lines 16:48:21 (for one reason or another I'm restricted to one file and it's up to 500 lines) 16:48:27 write very long lines? 16:48:52 Phantom_Hoover, I'm writing it with someone who insists max 80 characters 16:49:06 write very dense lines 16:49:47 This is Python, not Perl 16:49:50 jafet: "unmaintainable" is a strong word. 16:50:19 python code is pretty maintainable even at scale.. but you just have lots of low hanging bugs that arent easily shaken out by a type checker. 16:50:53 also 10^3 and 10^2 are harder to type than 1000 and 100 :) 16:53:08 In this context, 10^3 does not mean the same thing as 1000. 16:54:20 what does 10^3 mean? 16:54:26 > 10 `xor` 3 16:54:27 Can't resolve type class Num (Bits n) 16:54:28 9 16:55:24 ~10^3 implies a range somewhere between 10^2 and 10^4. ~1000 implies a range somewhere between a few hundred and 2000. 16:55:53 if you say so 16:56:34 when i see ~10^3 i think "3 digits" 16:56:56 well 16:56:57 okay 16:57:01 i'm kinda with Jafet here 16:57:39 Personally, I have not seen good python code past 10^3 lines or so. There is little documentation (docstrings don't count), no type system, and no confidence that anything that is documented does work as documented 16:58:15 Then I refer to the source code and it invariably looks like java without the type checking. 16:59:11 perhaps you should read more python code? 16:59:55 how about https://github.com/trevp/tlslite ? 17:00:59 Why should I read that? 17:02:00 for enjoyment? 17:02:51 Reading a TLS stack written in python doesn't sound very enjoyful. 17:03:04 suit yourself 17:03:20 I would guess that the authors derived enjoyment from writing it. 17:05:43 mind you most my published python codeis around 500loc, beautiful, bug free, and well documented ;-) 17:07:08 They don't seem to have negative tests, though this isn't that surprising any more. 17:08:03 -!- ^v has joined. 17:09:11 int-e: sigh, then it stays out of ##crypto I guess 17:10:41 kmc, what are you replying to? 17:11:00 kmc: I had an explicit request (from mm_freak) for removing lambdabot from ##crypto. Can you please sort this out? I don't want to be part of that fight. 17:11:25 ah 17:12:05 i don't care that much if lambdabot is in ##crypto 17:13:28 is ##crypto any good? 17:14:12 why would you not want lambdabot 17:14:35 > -- because it might conflict with another bot? 17:14:35 command not recognized or not supported 17:14:36 not an expression: `-- because it might conflict with another bot?' 17:15:45 also she is no longer a vixen 17:15:49 ?vixen right dear? 17:15:50 The press is the enemy. 17:17:54 haha this again 17:17:58 newsham: I think it's good 17:18:12 well mm_freak kickbanned lambdabot when he left the channel 17:18:33 ?vixen a/s/l? 17:18:33 I don't want to see this country to go that way. You know what happened to the Greeks. Homosexuality destroyed them. Sure, Aristotle was a homo, we all know that, so was Socrates. 17:18:46 is it just doing random quotes for vixen now? 17:18:53 vixen -> nixon 17:18:55 oh, its doing nixon 17:19:03 ?farber 17:19:03 Don't put all your ducks in one barrel. 17:19:27 mm_freak left because of my "anti-haskell crusade" wherein I claim that Haskell is a capable, practical programming language rather than a perfect object of mathematical beauty which will solve all of humanity's problems 17:19:46 wait, why is mm_freak involved in whether lambdabot is in ##crypto if he is not in the channel? 17:19:51 a little birdy told me that haskell is not math. 17:19:56 beats me elliott 17:20:10 its funny that all the programmers think haskell is math, and all the math people think it is not. 17:20:19 I am sure it won't solve all of humanity's (or anyone else's) problems, any more than, another programming language 17:20:25 on the (substantial) list of interpersonal drama I can get involved with, this has a pretty fucking low priority 17:20:52 newsham: well I'm a programmer and I don't think Haskell is math, although it obviously has connections to math, as do other programming langugaes or most things really 17:20:52 zzo38: not until it can be compiled to javascript, at least. ;-) 17:21:33 newsham: I think it's funny how Haskell detractors and Haskell zealots believe the same set of falsehoods about the language 17:21:34 newsham: Compiling it to JavaScript isn't really all that good either, but at least it is another possible target. 17:21:42 kmc++ 17:22:00 zzo38: javascript is for solving the worlds problems!@# 17:22:03 most recently mm_freak was trying to claim that GHC Haskell doesn't have shared-memory concurrency 17:22:05 Haskell has a lot of mathematical stuff on it but only computable (or partially computable) and it can't be ideal like mathematics can be, any more than any other computer program can be ! 17:22:18 newsham: No it can't solve the world's problems very well either! 17:22:43 zzo38: sure it can! see the facebooks! and the tweets! and the goog pluses!@#!@# 17:22:44 because someone else was talking about how Rust doesn't have shared memory concurrency, and that this is a good thing, and if another language has a good thing then Haskell obviously has it but better, never mind what the facts are 17:22:50 problem solved! utopia! 17:23:03 (not really true that Rust doesn't have shared-memory concurrency, either, but more true than for GHC Haskell) 17:23:05 ?keal 17:23:05 ghc need to have plugin that allow copy paste in xp 17:23:22 ?mm_freak 17:23:23 Unknown command, try @list 17:23:23 ^_^ 17:23:31 newsham: O, it is bad because Hitler did it. 17:23:39 zzo38: touche 17:23:43 haha 17:24:23 I mean I don't really want #esoteric to be feud central, I was just confused. 17:25:17 -!- olsner has joined. 17:26:23 elliott: it's an interesting bit of information. 17:27:28 kmc: I can easily add ##crypto back; the real question is whether it annoys people on the channel or not. 17:28:21 also it is there at the moment 17:28:38 the entirety of what's been said about lambdabot since lambdabot rejoined is 17:28:39 15:38 -!- lambdabot [~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu] has joined ##crypto 17:28:39 15:40 < kmc> lambdabot: welcome back! 17:28:39 15:41 < sarnold> lambdabot: botsnack! 17:29:18 :I 17:29:48 I could understand if the channel had hate speech or whatever, but this seems like deliberate troublemaking. 17:30:00 which? 17:30:29 I mean, trying to get lambdabot out of a channel you're not in 17:30:33 it's just weird. 17:30:46 yeah 17:30:53 he used to be an op there, but not anymore I guess 17:31:17 That was a month ago. I dunno. 17:31:25 oh 17:31:38 yeah so it happened when he quit the channel 17:39:06 is math a perfect object of mathematical beauty which will solve all of humanity's problems? 17:39:17 maybe in some vacuous sense 17:39:25 but maybe it can only have metamathematical beauty 17:40:28 lexande: you can define the can of beans as open. this easily generalizes to larger real world problems. 17:41:10 God no 17:42:49 Don't expect, that humanity is the only thing having a problem, and that furthermore, one thing can solve all of them. Both things are impossible... 17:43:11 way to be anti-haskell zzo 17:43:33 . o O ( humanity is part of the problem space ) 17:43:42 zingle zign-on 38 17:44:22 if you're not part of the solution you're part of the noxious acidic gas rising from it 17:44:44 is that the precipitate? 17:45:08 no 17:49:17 i think that's a precipitate 17:50:14 i guess not 17:53:31 Acidic precipitation 17:57:26 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 17:58:09 math can solve humanities problems. most notably subtraction of certain people and addition of others. 17:59:45 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:02:03 What about multiplication 18:02:33 multiplication has lead to a lot of problems, but does underly a lot of our current economic strategies 18:04:23 george washington has warned us about division, however 18:04:48 good point 18:05:21 but only after he divided the british empire. so perhaps he didnt mean it generally 18:05:45 lexande: i belief math, to the extent it is economics, has the potential to solve a lot more problems than "social consciousness" 18:06:37 unfortunately a lot of economics is based on math that is untethered from any physical reality. 18:06:53 maybe someday we'll figure out how to fix that 18:07:13 we're already on our way 18:07:22 economics is a relatively young field of study 18:07:35 There seems to be this bizarre popular misconception that if you generate a probable prime and it turns out to be not actually prime, your cryptosystem will instantly break 18:08:41 (#programmersarestoopid) 18:09:09 "psychology" has now gone two directions: there's cognitive neuroscience, which is where neuroscience met computer science, and there's economics, which is what behaviorism has evolved into. 18:10:22 Jafet: if your composite "probable prime" has lots of small factors, then any data encrypted with it is definitely insecure 18:11:20 what quintopia said 18:11:45 though i'm pretty sure crypto libs do a sieve against small primes after generation 18:12:04 right 18:12:30 it's also very unlikely that it will qualify as a probable prime. 18:13:08 but you know.. when 1/2^100 eventually happens, you wanna be safe ;-) 18:13:11 it's very unlikely that any composite will...that's the whole point 18:13:55 i wish they'd just hurry up and prove the riemann hypothesis already so we can have the dang miller test 18:14:14 when the probability is lower than that of a hardware failure, that may be a good point to stop worrying. 18:14:54 i've had enough hardware failures in my life to keep worrying 18:15:39 ah, I misspoke 18:15:48 * Bike vomits all over the channel 18:15:55 ew 18:15:57 stop that 18:16:07 quintopia: I meant to stop worrying about the primality of the probably prime and start worrying about hardware failures instead. 18:16:15 stop saying things like economics evolving out of behaviorism then! 18:16:43 okay. say your peace 18:17:05 * int-e agrees with Bike there; just because there is an overlap (once you give up the "rational agent" simplification doesn't mean one evolved into the other) 18:17:19 err, misplaced ). 18:17:39 The thing that people don't get is that if there was any cryptosystem that would break if you handed it a fake prime, you would instantly get a primality test 18:17:58 well, primality is in P 18:18:14 there's nothing much to say, i don't know where the hell you get your idea of psychology and its history but what you're saying has nothing to do with reality 18:18:17 anyawy https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedAndrew/status/451410960519938048/photo/1 18:19:54 twitter makes those URLs useless without javascript. 18:20:03 Bike: have you looked at economics research lately? it bares little resemblance to what it was back before modern psychology. that old-school stuff has been shoved aside (not completely...there's room for everyone i guess) 18:20:35 that doesn't mean psychologists started becoming economists! 18:21:04 of course not 18:21:06 Shoved into schools 18:21:18 that's what you said. "psychology" has now gone two directions... 18:21:35 also, plenty of economic research is unrelated to the psychological states of actors. 18:21:38 more the other way around really. or maybe more like people who decided to become "economists" lately end up looking more like psychologists of old 18:22:17 i didn't say ALL of economics was subsumed by psychology 18:22:38 you are extrapolating way too much in the wrong directions 18:23:04 I read somewhere, someone who said, astrology is no good, and psychology is even worse. 18:23:13 in tracking philosophies and paradigms through time, it makes sense to say that many of those originating in psychology are now held by those calling themselves economists 18:23:37 you said "that old-school stuff has been shoved aside" and the thing you said earlier pretty clearly looked like psychologists became x 18:23:59 i never used the word psychologists 18:24:20 zzo38: Well, messing with people's heads works. It's much harder to influence the trajectories of planets. 18:24:35 and if something i say can be misinterpreted to your dislike, please ask what i mean before vomiting on me 18:24:38 it's just rude 18:25:41 you said "psychology". i don't think i'm being weird by interpreting «"psychology" has now gone two directions» as meaning psychology became something. 18:26:05 i'm more vomiting because it sure looks like the channel is doing this thing where computer nerds start talking shit about soft sciences they don't know anything about. 18:26:26 humans evolved from primates, but we're not the only primates. psychology has become more than two things, but i'm only concerned with two of them here 18:26:54 oh come on, you're loopholing, there is no way your statement can be reasonably interpreted that way 18:26:56 and that sounds elitist 18:27:55 elliott: but why would you even think that i was talking about clinical psychology or abnormal psychology or all that stuff? do i have to add a whole long list of qualifications to every damn thing i say? 18:28:45 i mispoke, but that doesn't mean you need to go accusing me of holding beliefs i don't hold 18:28:45 because "psychology" encompasses all of those 18:28:58 no, but saying things that clearly strongly imply something and then getting pedantic when someone disagrees with it just makes you really annoying to talk to... 18:29:04 I should know because I used to do it constantly. 18:29:21 it's permitted to just say you misspoke and take it back. 18:29:51 i'm not trying to get pedantic here. i'm trying to clarify. i know what i mean, but i don't know how to put it across so that i'm not misinterpreted 18:30:32 "modern economics has a lot more psychological realism than it used to" 18:31:09 that works for part of it i suppose 18:31:28 well what's the other part. what's the cognitive neuroscience thing even mean 18:32:57 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:34:07 well that part you rephrased was supposed to convey more about economics adopting the principles of behaviorism, looking at what people actually do and treating them sort of like black boxes. (which is to say, they haven't quite gotten to the point of using actual neuroscience in their models) 18:35:09 and the other part means exactly what it says. cognitive neuroscience combines behavioral psychology with neuroscience with computer science models and other things 18:38:35 so i'm supposed to interpret half of the sentence as meaning 'economics incorporated psychology' and the other half as 'psychology became cognitive neuroscience'? 18:39:53 or am i supposed to interpret them both as meaning something incorporated psychology, despite cognitive neuroscience not being mentioned before and seeming kind of random, or what. i'm confused 18:42:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:44:03 Bike: if you are having trouble interpreting my original statement, you should forget i ever said it, and ask about the things i said afterwards instead 18:44:22 -!- spiette has joined. 18:48:20 how about before, can i complain about whatever weird thing you were complaining about as 'social consciousness' 18:49:24 that wasn't a complaint, but commentary on its inherent ephemerality. i don't think it's a bad thing to have, just that it won't stand throughout time. 18:53:54 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/21zdln/the_common_core_is_corrupting_school_mathematics/ holy shit this is awful 18:54:19 http://i.imgur.com/0TDJAcR.jpg i mean for christ's sake the 'new' way is the way i learnt multiplication, it's far more sensible than the 'old' one 18:55:43 aaaaargh it's an april fool's 18:55:48 um is this a j- right. 18:56:12 i was confused on account of the fact that when it was posted it was 4 in the morning of april 2 when i saw it? 18:56:37 «You heard it here first from the Reform Math lobby: the "easy" way to divide is using a square root.» 18:56:53 i wonder if that guy really has a phd in math 18:57:01 oh 18:57:27 http://imgur.com/cYBLWpZ hahaha 18:58:03 "This was a simple, straightforward process that required only basic fraction sense, understanding of whole-number addition, and a first-semester course in undergraduate number theory." 18:58:47 «The Common Core is introducing all of this "problem solving" that relies on sudden insight and creative thinking and getting math away from what children should be doing: learning to operate on numbers according to pre-specified routines and instructions to produce a simple numerical output - you know, the sort of work that will position our kids for jobs that will exist well into the 21st century.» this is a good post 19:03:10 to be fair, it looks like both methods did give the same answer, just written differently 19:03:14 I realized that Rust Objective-C bindings could support syntax like let string = objc![[NSString alloc] initWithCString: "Hello, 19:03:17 world!"]; 19:03:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:03:48 olsner: part of the joke is the writer not knowing anything yeah 19:03:54 Bike: ok 19:03:58 kmc: is the newline intentional 19:04:12 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:04:21 no 19:04:23 mispaste 19:04:31 Objective-Rust, sounds great 19:04:38 I'm just saying you can shoehorn Objective C method call syntax into Rust as a macro, which is pretty amusing 19:04:44 olsner: yep yep 19:05:05 Bike: completing the square really is quite easy, and it is, in fact, the first method ever discovered to solve such problems, as well as the method by which the quadratic formula is derived. i definitely prefer it to the quadratic formula (but not to factoring if the problem is reducible) 19:05:55 btw, I found the magic attribute to disable the ridiculous stack check, but it seems to be a *function* attribute 19:06:12 completing the square is fine but that's not what the image is doing, is it? 19:06:45 olsner: that's right 19:06:57 if you wanted to complete the square you'd add, uh... 5/2 or something? man it's been too long -_- 19:07:15 olsner: I don't think it's ridiculous; stack overflow would be a memory saftey violation 19:07:38 but there should be better tools for turning off the check, and also it should probably use a guard page instead for functions with a stack frame smaller than one page 19:08:03 oh is it 25/4 you add 19:08:13 and that gives you (x + 5/2)², right 19:09:10 as for the quadratic formula it's useful for whenever i want to solve a quadratic based on empirical data, because completing the square of 2.7x² + 5.3819x sounds p. annoying 19:09:23 (in actuality i make the computer do it but w/e) 19:09:23 Bike: look near the end of the one he solved there. he adds 25/4 to both sides. it's completing the square...encrypted :P 19:09:28 olsner: there are real-world examples of exploiting stack overflow in C programs for arbitrary code execution 19:09:30 :o 19:09:38 that's the kind of thing Rust is supposed to prevent absolutely, modulo unsafe code 19:09:55 in practice it can't catch stack overflow in C code called from Rust code, unless the C was specially compiled 19:10:27 having students derive the quadratic formula from square-completion would be nice for sure, i don't rmeember doing that in class 19:10:34 Bike: but i like his method too. it still requires less memorization than the quadratic formula, and more number sense as well :D 19:10:36 "and then, you can jump into galois theory" 19:10:41 @tell Vorpal You've seen most of these already, but here they are all grouped together: http://zem.fi/2014-04-02-tl2 19:10:42 Consider it noted. 19:10:55 quintopia: i'm honestly not sure i get where the substitution comes from 19:11:43 Bike: the substitution will always be (x+b/2)=u 19:12:08 i think i'd rather complete the square 19:12:51 yes it is slightly more intuitive 19:13:19 however, students who plan on eventually taking calculus might benefit from being able to make substitutions like tht 19:13:31 it also makes some trig identities a lot easier to solve 19:14:19 i don't like long division... 19:14:21 for trig identities they oughta just teach euler's formula. 19:14:36 the fact i iddn't learn it in high school is one of my great griefs against the educational system 19:16:02 Oooh! Today I ate a burrito 19:16:11 Schools teach integrals the same way that the reddit post teaches substitutions. You grab a magic term and substitute it for u and somehow it all works 19:16:31 yes :( 19:16:31 Taneb: congratulations 19:16:34 what was in it? 19:16:37 i'm still bad at integral substitutions 19:16:38 Beef 19:16:59 Taneb: did it make you think about monads? 19:17:10 Not particularly 19:17:14 I actually don't care that I can't evaluate any integrals because I know you can write arbitrarily hard problems as integrals 19:17:17 Other than the "this is not much like a monad" 19:17:37 Try eating it in a spacesuit 19:17:41 ceci n'est pas une monad 19:19:04 Bike: yes. i bet they also didn't teach you the geometric intuition for all of the trig functions, which i find /more/ useful than the complex analysis connection 19:19:19 I'm a little worried as the only player whose character is aligned good in my D&D party 19:19:53 We're going to bring down a major bank. At level 2. 19:20:33 Why not start a D&D hedge trading guild 19:21:35 Jafet, that's part of the plan 19:21:55 We're only doing this because one of the characters owes the bank money 19:23:34 apparently GNU C has destructors: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Variable-Attributes.html#index-g_t_0040code_007bcleanup_007d-attribute-3022 19:27:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:28:51 It also has a "destructor" function attribute to complement "constructor", but that's different. 19:30:27 those run when an object file is loaded/unloaded right? 19:30:58 I once did a "return to libdl" attack where the payload was in a constructor function 19:32:30 It says "after main () completes or exit () is called". I'm not entirely certain on what happens if you have a destructor function in a shared object that is dlclose'd. 19:32:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:32:50 "Destructor routines are executed before dlclose() returns" okay, that. 19:35:50 Something I once idly wondered but didn't take the time to find out: if you put an __attribute__ ((constructor)) function in a .so, will that get run based on an ELF dynamic section DT_INIT entry? 19:36:20 ( the Int (10 `xor` 3) 19:36:20 (input):1:5:When elaborating argument x to function Prelude.Basics.the: 19:36:20 Can't unify 19:36:20 Bits n 19:36:20 with 19:36:20 Int↵… 19:36:27 huh 19:36:48 ( the (Bits 16) (10 `xor` 3) 19:36:49 Can't resolve type class Num (Bits (fromInteger 16)) 19:37:02 ( :t xor 19:37:02 Data.Bits.xor : (Bits n) -> (Bits n) -> Bits n 19:37:28 ok wtf don't they have a Num instance for that 19:37:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:38:36 ( :info Bits 19:38:37 Not a class 19:38:51 ( :t Bits 19:38:51 Data.Bits.Bits : Nat -> Type 19:39:52 because would it be big or little endian, for one? 19:40:03 wat 19:40:08 sheesh 19:40:14 ( :t Bits 19:40:15 Data.Bits.Bits : Nat -> Type 19:40:22 what are the constructors? 19:40:26 ( :i Bits 19:40:27 Not a class 19:40:33 that's what i was trying to find with :info 19:40:54 but i must have misremembered the command 19:41:02 ( :help Bits 19:41:03 Command not permitted 19:41:14 Not permitted. 19:42:15 ( :i Nat 19:42:15 Not a class 19:42:38 > :i Nat 19:42:39 Not a class 19:42:39 :1:1: parse error on input `:' 19:42:59 ( :help 19:42:59 Command not permitted 19:44:02 ( :t Bits 10 19:44:02 Bits (fromInteger 10) : Type 19:44:18 ( :i Bits 10 19:44:18 (input):1:1: error: expected: end of input, 19:44:18 operator 19:44:18 :i Bits 10 19:44:18 ^ 19:44:27 I have not recently played the Dungeons&Dragons, but may be able to, this week, however. 19:44:51 I won't be able to until after Easter 19:44:53 I don't expect to ever need to take down any bank. 19:45:15 As I play it with friends at uni and it's the Easter holiday at the moment 19:45:20 So we're all spread all voer 19:45:23 *over 19:49:20 There are currently no other player characters, in the game I am playing. 19:50:10 (Which means, that our best fighter is gone, making it more difficult in the situation where combat becomes necessary or especially helpful, but so far we have been able to do stuff without much of that anyways) 19:55:33 ( the (Bits 16) (cast 10 `xor` cast 3) 19:55:34 MkBits 9 : Bits 16 19:56:10 ( :t cast 19:56:10 Prelude.Cast.cast : Cast from to => from -> to 19:57:54 -!- augur has joined. 19:58:12 just make Num a superclass of Cast Integer and make fromInteger a synonym for cast, i guess 19:58:34 er *subclass 19:59:34 ( 3+3 19:59:36 6 : Integer 20:00:38 ( the (Bits 16) MkBits (-1) 20:00:38 (input):1:5:When elaborating argument x to function Prelude.Basics.the: 20:00:38 Can't unify 20:00:38 (machineTy (nextPow2 (case block in divCeil n 8 (Prelude.Nat.modNat, mod' n 7 n n 7)))) -> Bits n 20:00:38 with 20:00:38 Bits (fromInteger 16)↵… 20:00:50 fancy 20:00:59 oh wait 20:01:06 ( the (Bits 16) (MkBits (-1)) 20:01:06 When elaborating argument x to function Prelude.Basics.the: 20:01:06 No such variable Data.Bits.machineTy 20:01:14 bits doesn't include two's comp? :( 20:01:46 ( :t MkBits 20:01:46 Data.Bits.MkBits : (machineTy (nextPow2 (case block in divCeil n 8 (Prelude.Nat.modNat, mod' n 7 n n 7)))) -> Bits n 20:01:46 ( the (Bits 16) (cast (-1)) 20:01:46 MkBits 65535 : Bits 16 20:02:15 Bike: MkBits is a constructor, so presumably it can't do canonicalization 20:02:17 nice type 20:03:19 wow that's a scary type 20:03:21 The thing is actually that the function to compute what type you pass to MkBits is private to Data.Bits. 20:04:22 mmmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_programming#History 20:04:39 dynamic programming called dynamic programming because: that sounded cool 20:04:44 So you get a nosuchvariable when trying to apply MkBits. 20:05:08 "and because it sounded impressive" my life 20:08:11 Melvar: ugh. 20:14:38 here's kind of a neat thing https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop 20:16:06 ( the (Bits 12) (cast (-1)) 20:16:07 MkBits 4095 : Bits 12 20:17:41 clearly Bits should take a transfinite ordinal instead of just a Nat 20:20:20 Currently, it doesn’t even go over 64 bits. 20:20:30 wat 20:21:04 ( (Bits8, Bits16, Bits32, Bits64) 20:21:05 (Bits8, Bits16, Bits32, Bits64) : (Type, Type, Type, Type) 20:21:48 It just wraps one of these primitives according to its parameter. 20:22:18 shocking 20:22:37 oerjan: we have an isabelle theory of arrays where the arrays are typeclass-constrained to be at most 8192 elements long 20:22:45 We also still don’t have well-supported bytearrays. 20:23:01 The typeclass is named something like fourThousand 20:23:23 O KAY 20:29:16 -!- tertu has joined. 20:31:24 Bike: why would they pick Debian if it's a purity thing...? 20:31:36 I'd expect one of the GNU-approved distributions nobody knows about. 20:31:47 i don't care, i just like fpgas >_> 20:31:49 that said, I wonder if Stallman will buy one. 20:32:10 course xilinx isn't exactly an open source paradigm either 20:32:31 yeah... I guess there's no way to change what the FPGA runs without proprietary software 20:32:49 so the open laptop gimmick is kinda silly, though I suppose you could just ignore the FPGA if it does nothing by default and is just an add-on? I dunno 20:33:08 Laptops are a lost cause 20:33:31 well, it's not exactly a laptop 20:33:48 the case literally comes open when you lift up the screen and it has no keyboard. 20:33:54 but they call it a laptop. 20:34:01 gNewSense. 20:34:22 (I don't know if that's current.) 20:34:47 fizzie: yes, plus Trisquel, Dragora, BLAG, dynebolic, and some others I'm forgetting 20:35:06 I forgot Musix, Parabola, and LibreWRT. 20:35:17 Why not fab your own CPU while you're at it 20:35:23 and BLAG is no longer recommended, apparently? 20:36:07 Is LibreWRT an OpenWRT-kinda thing? 20:37:05 http://librewrt.org/index.php?title=Main_Page yeah (dunno if it's based on OpenWRT) 20:37:54 fiiiiine i'll just get a PCI FPGA somewhere ya nerds 20:38:28 "Lets Free Your Ben Nanonote!" this is some weird Chinese pocket computer that ships with OpenWRT and it's still not enough for these people 20:38:53 If it has no keyboard, then it isn't very good 20:39:03 http://librewrt.org/index.php?title=Hardware_Support you can kind of notice the must-be-free constraints in the hardware support page. 20:40:08 "If you have a hardware that is free, in the sense that no proprietary software is required to run it" 20:40:13 Good definition 20:42:47 Makes me wonder if their WZR-HP-G300NH firmware actually replaces all bootloaders and such on the device. 20:43:34 Probably hard to replace anything in ROM. 20:44:17 If I have a C code such as function_module_vtab*vt=*sqlite3_user_data(cxt); then it is error dereferencing (void*) but the compiler ought to figure it out in this case. 20:45:48 Soon you'll start asking for modern C++-style "auto" type inference features in C, too. 20:46:06 fizzie: it might run a free bootloader out of the box 20:46:18 like U-Boot 20:46:41 Even auto doesn't solve that; the right operand of = is not well-typed by itself. 20:47:59 You can, however, implement type inference by having sqlite3_user_data return a template with an operator* that returns a template that automatically converts to the correct contextual type 20:48:19 s/template/template class object unicorn/ 20:48:22 g 20:48:23 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:48:41 Now I'm thinking about U-boat loaders 20:51:57 "SanDisk drive in the photos is a throw-away for our dev purposes only, we would not subject end users to such a drive" so much 'tude 20:53:23 Oversized SD cards 20:53:42 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:54:24 -!- conehead has joined. 20:56:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:57:06 Jafet: In this case it isn't even exactly a ordinary = operator; it is a declaration. 20:57:21 -!- augur has joined. 21:02:17 That is true, but having a special rule for initializers is odd. 21:04:52 They're already quite special, to be fair. Like, there's no analogue to aggregate initialization for assignment. 21:05:12 Maybe there should be. 21:06:08 Maybe you could make it support a multiple assignment thing while you're at it. 21:06:29 int a; struct { int x, y; } b; { a, b } = { 1, { 2, 3 } }; 21:06:59 That's getting dangerously close to making C a usable language, and we should have none of that. 21:07:00 -!- tertu_ has joined. 21:07:35 Though, I wonder why C++11 didn't just add initializer_list literals. I don't see a grammatical conflict there. 21:07:59 (as exemplified by the existence of http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Compound-Literals.html) 21:08:15 You could have int a, b; { a, b } = { b, a }; have undefined behavior -- like it naturally would -- to keep it sufficiently C-like. 21:08:51 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:10:19 The semantics should be easy to define, the left operand is treated as a temporary structure whose new contents are then assigned to a,b 21:11:12 No, that would Preclude Optimization Opportunities and would never do. Clearly the only thing is to consider that the same as "a = b, b = a" except without the sequence point implied by the comma operator. 21:12:06 Also another problem, people will then want their { any lvalue-expr, ... } = ... 21:12:08 Jafet: Why should we have none of making C a usable language? 21:12:47 On further thought, that may not actually be a big problem 21:13:43 It does make it somewhat hard to define the resulting type of that = expression. (Perhaps an untagged structure with the corresponding member types could do?) 21:14:19 However I think that thing like { a, b } = { 1, { 2, 3 } } isn't needed and shouldn't be have in C, anyways, unless you could do something like int a; int b; struct { int x; int y; } c; { a, b } = c; which would be slightly more meaningful, but probably that isn't needed either. 21:14:36 The conclusion I am compelled to draw from all this is that the following should be made legal C: {{a, b} = {b, a}, {b, *f(a, b)}} = {{b, a}, {a, b}} 21:14:50 i like it 21:15:22 Jafet: That would be p. weird, since the normal result of = is not an lvalue. 21:15:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:16:00 it should be. 21:16:02 Arrr, me seaplus be leakin' 21:16:50 I don't have any problems with e.g. {({a, b} = {b, a}, a), {b, *f(a, b)}} = {{b, a}, {a, b}} though. 21:17:15 Sad: "In C++, a compound literal designates a temporary object, which only lives until the end of its full-expression [...] As a result, the C++ compiler now rejects the conversion of a temporary array to a pointer." 21:17:25 (Er, assuming a is an aggregate type with at least two members to fix my thinko.) 21:17:44 Wonder if they will take a patch that makes you a std::array instead 21:17:52 wait is *f(a,b) an lvalue 21:18:01 Bike: sure 21:18:06 Of course, how else can you assign to it 21:18:11 int x; int *f(int a, int b) { return &x; } 21:18:12 *p = ... 21:18:15 isn't it a dereference of a function call 21:18:19 oh. 21:18:22 no, it's a dereference of the result 21:18:24 well. great 21:18:29 like int *p = f(a, b); *p = ... 21:18:40 Some pretty great macro libraries have been written this way 21:18:50 macro libraries? 21:19:35 Well, a library which defines macros to dereferenced function calls 21:19:48 Where did I recently read something about a crafty lifetime difference between two things. 21:20:46 There should be some convenient way to run a full-text search on the subset of pages in browser history for the last couple of days. 21:20:50 There are some more pedestrian uses, like errno is usually a dereferenced function call that grabs the thread-local errno 21:20:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:22:00 fizzie: i'm pretty sure you can do that in chrome? 21:22:54 fizzie: I think Mozilla uses SQLite, which includes full-text search. However, I do not know how to tell Mozilla to run SQL statements. 21:23:34 Bike: As far as I can tell, the "search history" button in (this) Chrome's history view only searches metadata like title and URL, not page contents. 21:24:07 (Also it won't show history for other devices than the local device if sync encryption is on.) 21:25:01 You can always hook up the sqlite command line utility to the mozilla database, once you figure out where they've moved the database files this week. 21:26:32 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:26:55 fizzie: is it the const& return values 21:28:00 http://herbsutter.com/2008/01/01/gotw-88-a-candidate-for-the-most-important-const 21:40:30 It wasn't that. I think it might've been something related to a macro. 22:00:01 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:45:00 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:00 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:34 -!- augur has joined. 22:51:51 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:00:25 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:00:54 -!- ^v has joined. 23:01:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:14:37 <^v> D: oerjan 23:15:52 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:18:06 ^v, what? 23:18:24 <^v> Phantom_Hoover, he left :< 23:22:41 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:33:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:39:14 -!- augur has joined. 23:40:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:42:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:56:30 -!- Koen_ has joined. 2014-04-03: 00:00:11 @quote shachaf agda 00:00:12 shachaf says: Everyone forgets about Agda Lovelace, the first constructivist. 00:00:18 Taneb: ☝ 00:00:44 :) 00:00:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:05:26 -!- nisstyre has quit (Client Quit). 00:07:39 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 00:15:28 -!- tromp has joined. 00:18:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:19:05 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:19:58 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 00:21:17 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:29:55 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:35:37 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:36:59 -!- conehead has joined. 01:01:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:45 http://i.imgur.com/kJxqkZ6.png software licenses are important 01:16:39 I hear IBM actually managed to get an exception to that license that allows them to use it for Evil too. (I'm not kidding, but the story may be false.) 01:16:54 Crockford is dumb and his license is dumb though. 01:19:31 http://dev.hasenj.org/post/3272592502/ibm-and-its-minions mmhm great 01:20:44 I mean if you use Crockford's JSON code as it stands then you're completely open to him wasting a lot of your time and money by deciding you're using it for Evil and trying to get you legally for it. 01:21:07 and since he's the kind of person to put a clause like that in a license, it's not really convincing to just assume he won't be obnoxious enough to. 01:21:21 the point is, someone not a programmer linked me to this and there's nothing to do but laugh 01:22:50 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:23 -!- tromp has joined. 01:26:15 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:27:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:34:38 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:50:27 <^v> "it has addition and subtraction, must be a brainfuck derivetive!" 01:50:52 <^v> ^ everyone who hasnt been to esolangs.org 01:52:28 -!- augur has joined. 01:52:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:53:33 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 03:46:26 http://www.sewingandembroiderywarehouse.com/embtrb.htm 04:26:35 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:31:50 Since #haskell is ignoring me, should I just ask questions in here? 04:32:01 (Or probably they just didn't see it or didn't know) 04:34:48 ask now or forever hold your piece 04:36:12 Urinate now or forever hold your piss 04:41:37 -!- tromp has joined. 04:57:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:36 -!- tromp has joined. 04:58:47 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:01:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:01:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:20:52 Is Elerea not a good fit if I want discrete events like 'line received from IRC'? 05:33:54 It looks as though the external function could end up causing loss for those things if the FRP network isn't fast enough 05:46:18 -!- w00tles has joined. 05:46:23 -!- w00tles has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 05:47:04 -!- w00tles has joined. 06:09:17 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:19:50 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:29:53 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 06:32:25 -!- password2 has joined. 06:35:28 -!- tertu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:51:00 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 07:02:03 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:05:58 -!- lexande has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:11:27 -!- lexande has joined. 07:14:59 -!- samebchase has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:16:45 -!- samebchase has joined. 07:24:15 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22109333/how-can-i-write-human-language-units-as-postfixes-in-haskell-like-3-seconds 07:24:29 Why does everyone love '3 seconds' whether it makes a lot of sense in the language or not? 07:24:39 It makes sense in Factor, much less so in Haskell... 07:25:40 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:28:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:33:48 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:38:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:00:30 -!- tromp has joined. 08:04:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:05:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:18:05 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 08:18:28 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:31:24 i like that 09:19:36 scary 09:23:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 10:00:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:29 if I'm not sure whether a language is esoteric or not, should I add it to the esolang wiki? 10:26:35 I guess it is esoteric 10:28:14 why is the bloody wiki stalling in the middle of my edits 10:30:21 -!- yorick has joined. 10:34:22 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:37:29 `unidecode ‘` 10:37:30 ​[U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK] [U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] 10:39:36 fizzie: wiki is down hth 10:39:48 OCCASIONALLY 10:41:02 wfm 10:41:33 i opened a heap of tabs and not worked, then i complained, then it worked again 10:41:38 *none worked 10:42:29 > map ord "@\\[" 10:42:30 Can't resolve type class Functor f 10:42:31 [64,92,91] 10:44:28 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:46:01 b_jonas: we _do_ have a rule you cannot create categories without discussing first, though. *cough* 10:46:53 that rule is dumb 10:47:52 well then why didn't you repeal it while you hosted the wiki QED hth 10:48:09 enforcing it was more fun! 10:48:20 fancy 10:55:32 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:55:49 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:57:29 oerjan: we do? oh damn, sorry 10:57:46 what do I do now then? how do I put it up for discussion? 10:57:48 Hmm. 10:58:09 an yes, that seems like a dumb rule 10:59:40 I am not sure why it is being slow, the computer it runs on is mostly idle. 10:59:47 (But it was v. slow for me, too.) 11:00:54 b_jonas: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization 11:11:21 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 11:15:51 11:41:38 *none worked 11:15:55 oops 11:16:12 YEAH IT WAS HORRIBLE 11:27:15 what, a new HWN i thought they'd died 11:32:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:35:40 -!- glogbackup has joined. 11:52:45 "•Fuuzetsu: I know someone who pulls in Lens just for & and ??" <-- it's tempting... 11:54:07 hm looks like there's been another bitcoin crash 12:08:57 erm, it has? 12:09:00 *there 12:12:59 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:13:15 http://i.imgur.com/Bsy1sZI.jpg 12:13:45 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 12:14:17 I want to add the ant brain language from ICFP 2004 defined at "https://alliance.seas.upenn.edu/~plclub/cgi-bin/contest/ants.html" to the wiki. what name do you suppose I should use for that language? 12:15:38 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:15:39 it could be "Ant state machine" or "Ambiant" or "Ant brain" or "ICFP 2004" or something else 12:17:00 elliott: bitcoinity's graph fell from 0.6 to 0.4 in the last week 12:17:14 pfft, you call that a crash? 12:17:17 it's not a crash until it halves 12:17:28 for anything _other_ than bitcoin it would be :P 12:17:34 that's the joke~ 12:17:37 b_jonas: mediawiki supports redirects, so pick your favourite and redirect th eothers 12:18:31 ion: argh XD 12:19:09 finally ghc might get the (:: T) extension i babbled about in 2008 or thereabouts 12:21:10 I guess it is actually useful these days 12:21:12 especially with lens 12:21:16 maybe 12:21:22 I guess lens wants something stronger 12:21:48 elliott: augustss noted that it could also be used as a proxy 12:22:10 oh, that is very nice 12:22:16 sizeOf (:: CInt) 12:22:29 I'm doing these regexp crosswords and one of the 'definitions' is [ABC]\s(LU|LP)]* and there is a mismatched ] whatdoido 12:22:33 :t sizeof 12:22:34 Not in scope: `sizeof' 12:22:34 Perhaps you meant one of these: 12:22:34 `IM.size' (imported from Data.IntMap), 12:22:54 :t sizeOf 12:22:55 Not in scope: `sizeOf' 12:22:55 Perhaps you meant one of these: 12:22:55 `IM.size' (imported from Data.IntMap), 12:23:16 Koen_: \] or put it right after the [ 12:23:23 the latter is quite horrid. 12:23:32 (IIRC) 12:23:38 @hoogle sizeOf 12:23:39 Foreign.Storable sizeOf :: Storable a => a -> Int 12:23:39 Network.Socket.Internal sizeOfSockAddr :: SockAddr -> Int 12:23:39 Network.Socket.Internal sizeOfSockAddrByFamily :: Family -> Int 12:23:59 elliott: i think Koen_ means the regexp is already given as that 12:24:05 yup 12:24:08 oh, I see 12:24:16 you complain, I guess 12:24:53 I'm feeling very uncomfortable 12:25:06 ...? 12:26:25 killed by unmatched brackets 12:37:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 12:45:13 -!- tromp has joined. 12:45:50 This code is supposed to return values generally in the range [-10, 10], but it's returning values in [-10^300, 10^300]. :/ 12:47:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:51:00 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:51:33 -!- tromp has joined. 12:52:16 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:56:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:56:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:00:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:01:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:14:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:37:40 -!- nisstyre has joined. 13:44:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:48:18 hehe http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ndef 13:48:24 nice joke langauge 13:50:55 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 13:54:24 I love "the famous real-time interpreter notepad.exe". 13:59:10 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 14:11:38 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:15:50 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:09:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:10:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:26:16 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:27:49 -!- tertu has joined. 15:33:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:37:54 -!- spiette has joined. 15:57:13 -!- Sellyme has quit (Quit: Oh god my bouncer is down help). 15:59:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:59:02 linear algebra: a load of horseshit? discuss 15:59:13 -!- Sellyme has joined. 15:59:38 -!- tertu has joined. 15:59:57 Is there a language that let's you define input types based on whether certain methods exist? 16:00:25 kinda like int foo(some type where int bar(int) exists ) 16:00:42 *int bar(that certain type) 16:03:06 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 16:03:10 -!- CutoutCapitalist has joined. 16:04:18 mroman: ocaml 16:04:23 go, I think 16:04:35 elm, I think 16:06:37 Can you give me a keyword to look it up? 16:06:45 It's not generics 16:06:49 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:07 try "row polymorphism" 16:07:18 yeah, what FireFly said 16:07:36 or "static duck typing" is what a plebian would call it, so you might get results that way too :P 16:08:08 oh 16:08:10 ok 16:08:23 Record subtyping? 16:08:27 Go hase some cool interface stuff 16:09:22 well.. it's an interface alright 16:10:05 https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~neelk/rows.pdf has some slides on the topic 16:10:14 but you probably found those already 16:16:55 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:18:14 -!- Sellyme has joined. 16:21:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 16:33:13 -!- ^v has joined. 16:35:59 http://codepad.org/BkcDW8CK <- something like that 16:36:14 although showing you sketch-code isn't probably gonna say much :D 16:38:12 function addStuff(<* +(a) => a *> a, <* +(a) => a *> b) would allow you to pass two things that support the + operator 16:38:31 -!- CutoutCapitalist has left ("Leaving"). 16:38:48 the real question though is whether this kind of stuff requires run-time checks or not 16:40:49 You can create a list of "objects" that all support addition 16:41:37 which means there can be a double and an integer in it 16:41:44 but I might not be able to add doubles and integers 16:41:53 which is why I'd need a "homogenous" constraint 16:42:32 The other thing is knowing at compile time which overloaded function I'd actually have to invoke 16:42:45 and I guess that's not possible 16:45:28 http://codepad.org/x9yx3VQb <- Haskell seems to know which version of a function it has to invoke 16:45:34 for existential quantification 16:50:11 Is my assumption correct that this can't be decided at compile time? 16:51:43 i don't think it is; you could have some function return Objs and pass them to squ 16:52:03 then which function it has to invoke depends on that x value's type 16:52:58 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 16:55:45 infinite ducks typing for an infinite amount of time will eventually verify a correct program 17:06:11 does boily ever leave metasepia in here while he's at work 17:08:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:24 he did once when specifically asked to 17:09:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:10:50 kolgomorov complexity blows my mind every time 17:12:25 kolmogorov? 17:12:41 err, yes 17:13:56 koglormov 17:14:30 whatever 17:14:42 the correctly spelled complexity blows my mind every time 17:15:32 the fact that the difference between different systems is only constant is just amazing 17:15:53 it's "just" turing universality 17:18:10 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:21:57 yes 17:22:07 but the constant factor is what's so strange 17:22:38 not all universal machines are time-equivalent; it's likely the case that TMs are slower than QTMs are slower than NTMs 17:22:39 why 17:23:08 yeah, there are extensions to kolmogorov complexity that require the program to have similar complexities, and there's no constant factor there 17:26:01 why what? 17:26:17 i don't understand your question. 17:26:22 it's not a question 17:26:32 i don't understand your message 17:26:50 ?! time does not even the picture, it's all about program size. 17:26:51 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 17:27:16 Given two models of turing-universality, kolmogorov complexity of a string between the two varies by at most a constant 17:27:31 yes, because you can just stick an interpreter in front 17:27:48 This doesn't come from "just" turing universality, because there are other properties like time complexity which do depend on the model 17:27:52 and that's what's so weird 17:28:01 time complexity is irrelevant to kolmogorov complexity. 17:28:19 yes, I agree 17:28:22 the constant factor is just for the program size. the new interpreter program combo might run exponentially slower. 17:28:27 sure 17:28:33 so what are you talking about. 17:29:39 https://xkcd.com/386/ 17:30:22 Bike: I am simply trying to draw a comparison between two properties of universal turing machine 17:33:45 The biggest problem about this "as few constraints as possible" is, that you can't do much withit 17:34:00 you can pass in a list of squarables to a function that squares them and returns them in a new list 17:34:07 but you can't get those values out again :) 17:34:33 because you can't cast it back to a double (because a squarable isn't always a double) 17:34:50 The function would have to make a promise to NOT change any type in the list 17:34:56 as well as NOT change the length of the list 17:35:36 then one could safely pass a list of doubles and cast it back to a list of doubles since we know the function doesn't affect the types 17:35:53 and I guess then we arrived at dependant types :( 17:37:29 especially with custom user defined types/containers that's probaly a little bit tricky 17:37:35 to verify that no contained type is changed 17:37:54 for lists you could just block add and some other list functions 17:38:25 https://peerj.com/articles/338/ scientists are fucked up 17:40:24 not as fucked up as the participants who stung themselves 17:40:37 or let them sting them? 17:40:44 I'm not sure what the correct pronoun here is :( 17:41:01 ... as the participants who let them(the scientists) sting them(the participants)? 17:41:15 the participant was the experimenter, is the point. 17:41:30 Bike: "Medical terminology: Buttocks / Layperson terminology: Buttock" nice 18:02:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:09:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:15:59 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:31:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:42:43 mroman: go also has static duck typing I think, but I'm not sure 18:43:48 well, I think they're both static and dynamic, sort of like haskell's classes, as in the validity is checked in runtime but the methods are resolved partly in runtime 18:44:01 -!- avid has joined. 18:45:39 -!- avid has quit (Quit: tulip). 18:52:13 was the first "runtime" there meant to be "compile time"? 18:52:16 -!- olsner has joined. 18:57:34 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:58:10 -!- yorick has joined. 19:08:23 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:12:03 -!- ^v has joined. 19:15:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:21:45 kmc: yes, sorry 19:21:51 validity is checked in compile time 19:29:08 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 19:29:23 -!- ^v has joined. 19:31:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:36:01 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:38:49 * oerjan wonders who made him a reddit response that was deleted. 19:43:57 b_jonas: yeah 19:44:06 interface types in Go are used for two different things, though 19:44:45 you can call the methods in the interface, but you can also do typecase and casts on the dynamic type of the value 19:45:39 and since Go doesn't have actual polymorphism, it's very common to pass "interface {}" and do runtime checks on it :< 19:46:07 :'( 19:46:32 by contrast Haskell a) has a real type system, b) has a separate facility for dynamic casts, which is much less frequently used because see (a) 19:47:23 interface{} is the top type. 19:47:32 yep 20:10:10 oh, btw, these guys are back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH0n_Ew2YDM 20:13:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:24:22 -!- conehead has joined. 20:24:26 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:24:53 -!- ^v has joined. 20:29:11 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:44:22 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 20:46:23 -!- tertu has joined. 20:51:13 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:21:46 elliott, I have a strange feeling that your day was more interesting than mine 21:22:02 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:45:50 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:46:39 -!- yorick has joined. 22:02:46 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 22:04:58 https://twitter.com/haley/status/451838031297646592/photo/1/large 22:08:27 butt that makes no sense. 22:17:08 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:17:15 -!- tertu has joined. 22:17:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:25:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:44:51 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:48:56 -!- boily has joined. 22:53:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:56:32 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 23:07:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:07:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:26:51 How can I do a signed multiplication using unsigned multiplication? Is the only way to take the absolute value of both multiplicands, multiply, then set the correct sign afterwards? 23:28:13 how could you do better? if the call will only take and output naturals, then you need to have a "downgrade" and an "upgrade" step 23:28:48 abs to get something you can pass to unsigned multiplication, then applying the sign to regain the information, seems minimal 23:30:05 I wasn't sure if there's some magical bit twiddling thing that somehow works :-) 23:30:33 there is. just make sure you use enough bitwidth 23:31:21 oh, okay, so it's unsigned multiplication on the two's complement form? 23:31:30 yeah 23:31:36 that was unclear to me 23:31:41 Yes, sorry :-) 23:32:02 right, I can see how it's not obviously impossible to do better then :P 23:32:03 it's just multiplication (mod 2^n) 23:32:34 and it will work as long as the multiplication of the value bits don't seep into the sign bit 23:32:44 *doesn't 23:33:48 (well, carry) 23:34:33 put differently, you can think of it as working in the 2-adic system 23:35:12 *number system 23:36:11 -!- ^v has joined. 23:38:15 * impomatic is playing British Legends :-) 23:41:30 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:42:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Niet). 23:49:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:52:11 Ok so in Elemera or whatever it's called, there's externalMulti, which I completely didn't notice until now 23:52:15 Elera 23:56:28 emeria? 23:56:57 @messages-loot 23:56:57 Koen_ said 11h 33m 11s ago: yeah I watched the latest captain america film with a friend and of course the bad guys from the opening scene are french (the bad guys are always french...) or so did they say!!! they were OBVIOUSLY quebecois 23:57:27 @tell Koen_ eh? eeeeeeh? like, real Québécois people for real real? 23:57:27 Consider it noted. 2014-04-04: 00:03:08 -!- tromp has joined. 00:14:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 00:27:31 -!- conehead has joined. 00:36:38 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:37:15 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 00:49:05 -!- conehead has joined. 00:56:14 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 01:01:52 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 01:03:06 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Client Quit). 01:03:22 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 01:09:40 -!- mortape123 has joined. 01:34:23 -!- tertu has joined. 01:59:55 time + 17 02:00:00 Aren't horrible hacks fun? 02:00:36 ? 02:01:58 NetWire provides an instance (Monad m, Num b) => Num (Wire s e m a b) 02:02:10 Which means you can use, e.g., 17 as a wire 02:02:14 Instead of pure 17 02:02:34 Which... seems a bit needless, like a fancy trick that Ruby would pull to make test cases read like English, or something 02:10:22 (from Sodium) 02:10:23 "Data.Traversable.sequenceA is useful to convert [Behavior a] into Behavior [a]." 02:10:53 That bothers me a bit.... presumably, the size of the list of Behavior [a] will never vary, but that's not obvious in its type 02:31:33 "You Are Using: Firefox 27. CSM Recommends: Explorer 8" meanwhile, on the web 02:49:12 lol 03:01:18 `coins 03:01:19 stalcoin bistificidecoin dumplodecoin vilcoin commentcoin confiecoin astilcoin iapleasepollcoin tricoin rblockcoin appaghtidointolerentraccoin mousequecoin noobcoin rodoncoin gibbcoin quagecoin full0coin lazolcoin iicecoin archcoin 03:11:17 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 03:17:05 -!- tertu has joined. 03:24:09 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 03:45:21 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:47:39 -!- tertu has joined. 03:52:09 copumpkin: I hate to tell you this... but GitHub's Haskell hilighter sucks 03:52:26 yeah 03:52:31 especially with DataKinds :( 03:52:40 Wait, actually, looking at it again... oh. Extension I don't understand 03:53:13 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:53:21 -!- tertu has joined. 03:53:31 How do data ... things that need extensions to be made interact with code with those extensions disabled 03:53:52 e.g. what happens when a function with no extensions enabled tries to use a (forall a. a -> a) -> a? 03:54:09 Wait, that type doesn't make sense except as bottom or const bottom :/ 03:54:37 But I ... hope my question is sufficiently clear? 03:55:18 Sgeo: Syntactic extensions merely enable the syntax; the semantics are always available 03:55:32 a rank2 type could be referred to indirectly, but not explicitly 03:56:04 modifications to the semantics of defined syntax occur only when the extension is available 03:56:19 these two cases probably cover 96% of extensions 04:01:12 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:03:16 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:09:35 Aah 04:09:37 *Ah 04:13:18 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:13:26 -!- squeak has joined. 04:14:14 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:16:57 -!- tertu has joined. 04:29:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:29:46 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:44:24 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 04:54:01 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:58:08 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:03:36 -!- Guest2460 has joined. 05:05:46 -!- tertu has joined. 05:08:24 -!- ter2 has joined. 05:08:24 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:10:34 -!- Guest2460 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:11:18 * Sgeo is slightly surprised that kmc didn't say anything about Rust 0.10 being released 05:27:18 -!- password2 has joined. 05:39:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:40:42 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 05:41:21 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Client Quit). 05:42:35 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/b0x3z/so_readwriteweb_does_a_story_about_how_facebooks/c0kfwpu 05:42:37 *twitch* 05:42:40 *gurgle* 05:42:48 They made a silly error and I can't correct them 06:05:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:17:59 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:24:14 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:39:55 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 06:57:00 -!- squeak has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:14:32 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:15:07 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:27:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:42:00 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 07:55:52 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 07:55:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:08:29 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:08:45 -!- Sellyme_ has joined. 08:09:00 -!- Sellyme_ has changed nick to Sellyme. 08:22:34 -!- password2 has joined. 08:32:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:35:53 -!- variable has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 08:41:12 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:42:15 They made a silly error and I can't correct them <-- http://xkcd.com/386/ hth 09:38:33 does the wiki have something about the ioccc entry at http://www.de.ioccc.org/years-spoiler.html#1992_buzzard.1 ? 09:39:26 there probably should be, the subset of C it uses after expansion is an interesting obfu language in its own right because it's not obvious how you can implement conditionals and other control structures in it 09:47:44 huh? why can't I edit the wiki? when I submit the edit, I get a blank page as result and the edit doesn't happen 09:51:01 always with the bugs 09:52:49 b_jonas: EWORKSFORME 09:54:34 oerjan: funny, I could create my talk page, 09:54:36 but not my user page 09:54:54 maybe it matches a spam filter rule or similar 09:56:24 i thought that was supposed to give you a slightly relevant error message. 09:56:48 maybe the wiki move broke something (a sure bet) 10:00:57 b_jonas: i created it, let's see if that helps? 10:02:29 oerjan: no, still can't edit it 10:02:44 can you edit it to say something else? 10:02:46 oh! 10:02:47 I can edit it 10:03:00 must be spam filter, because it depends on the content I edit it to 10:03:05 maybe it doesn't like links 10:04:03 let me try to bisect the text 10:04:27 b_jonas: you might be triggering filter 3, make sure to include a newline. 10:04:48 what filter 3? 10:05:08 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter but i don't know if you can view that 10:05:26 ah! apparently the newline at the beginning before the == matters! 10:05:36 "userpage contains no newlines and adds a link" 10:05:54 sure, but I did have newlines 10:05:59 b_jonas: oh you start with ==? that's filter 4! :P 10:06:02 but apparently it wants a newline at the beginning 10:06:07 oh! 10:06:10 so it's filter 4 10:06:25 I see 10:07:01 thanks 10:09:14 i suspect that regexp might catch === etc. as well, despite the description. 10:09:25 no matter 10:13:00 I seem to recall that AbuseFilter errors have been just unfriendly blank pages also before. 10:13:39 fizzie: sure, that's ok 10:13:45 Who needs section headings, anyway 10:14:27 Jafet: it only applies to user pages btw 10:14:41 because that's what the spammers did 10:16:27 fizzie: i'm also a bit worried that the filter statistics says it hasn't triggered. 10:16:44 They maliciously... used section headings? 10:17:12 b_jonas: uhh the fact that they implement a language with control flow operators (including goto) using said subset of C 10:17:16 Jafet: it's only when the page _starts_ with a section heading, which is not our wiki's style 10:18:27 it was presumably the most identifiable feature ais523 could find for that particular flood of spam 10:18:43 I see. Strange that someone runs into it, then. 10:19:27 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:09 oerjan: Hm. 10:21:18 oerjan: Curious, there are no entries in the abuse log newer than 5 November, 2013. 10:30:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 10:32:48 Well, would you look at that, there is in fact a bug there. 10:34:19 It was indeed an AbuseFilter match, and it's supposed to log it and give a "descriptive error message", but it has instead hit a PHP "must be of the type array, double given" exception, presumably due to AbuseFilter configuration syntax having changed. 10:37:59 (Though the value it complains about is a double right there in the documentation, so I'unno.) 10:38:27 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:39:08 @massages-loud 10:39:08 You don't have any messages 10:39:58 -!- yorick has joined. 10:40:00 "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: an edit to a user page makes it start with an h2 tag" 10:40:14 Now it works, and gives that kind of error message. 10:40:45 Also ends up in the log. 10:50:23 (what? hungry ghosts in my labyrinth?) 10:52:00 boily! 10:52:30 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:52:49 quinthellopia! 10:52:59 what do you think? 10:53:18 not much. my thinking functions are running on power saving mode. 10:53:30 fizzie: yay 10:53:56 boily: okay tell me about your favorite games 10:54:03 fizzie: mind if we start calling you fixie 10:54:24 because he has only one gear! makes sense! 10:54:51 quintopia: board or video? if it's board, I'd say Eclipse (which we played until midnight Wednesday night), mahjong, xiangqi and 将棋. 10:55:10 what about video 10:55:25 quintopia: video: I have a strong sentimental attachment to the old zelda, mario, DK and FF on the SNES. right now I'm a crawl addict. 10:55:57 (also, tetris. one can never get enough tetris in one's life.) 10:56:53 oh okay 10:57:07 what about other media 10:57:52 eeeeeeeh... 10:58:12 `quote Monday 10:58:13 1110) aaaaaurgh. you're making me think on a Monday! that shouldn't be happening! 10:59:00 quintopia: what kind of other medias are you thinking about of? 10:59:07 boily: it's friday hth 11:00:42 boily: books, shows, manga, visual novels, multiplayer rpgs, improv games.... 11:01:42 oerjan: I know. there's an orange t-shirt waiting for me. 11:02:14 oerjan: what computational class do you think you would get by adding an FSM to a poppable circular buffer. (aka you can delete from the queue, or move an element to the back, but not add anything new to it) 11:02:53 quintopia: many things including the Discworld, I don't really watch TV, azumanga and yotsuba, haven't read any yet, don't play any, do you include tabletop RPGs in that category? 11:03:44 i was thinking of tabletop rpgs i suppose. 11:04:07 though less dndy ones and more storycrafting style ones 11:05:56 oerjan: No, but it might be a bit premature; I'm sure I'll get progressively lazier w.r.t. fixing things as the novelty wears off. 11:06:05 quintopia: then paranoia. 11:06:32 ok 11:06:37 (time to initiate the Morning Rituals and go to Work) 11:06:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHOWERED CHICKEN). 11:06:45 bye have fun 11:09:47 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:09:52 oerjan: ? 11:09:53 fizzie: yes but by then you'll already have fixed everything, right? O_O 11:11:39 quintopia: hm. if you could also change things you'd have PSPACE, but without that i guess you get something less. it seems doomed to halt or loop trivially... 11:11:58 right 11:12:13 without writing your own stuff, it's pretty weak 11:12:40 but is there a simple characterization of the languages it can accept? 11:16:10 that sounds even harder since you'd presumably need to massage data into the right form to get much computation at all 11:18:05 i'm thinking with just a _little_ massaging, you should be able to do LR(1) recognition at least. 11:18:39 or wait 11:18:55 it might be hard to get back to just before the same point 11:19:01 could one modify the values in the buffer? or it it just read/delete/next? 11:19:13 no modification is what i assumed 11:20:35 it's not obviously equal to any class i know of, anyway 11:33:34 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:42:42 -!- variable has joined. 11:51:43 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:11:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:20:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:22:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:43:00 -!- ter2 has joined. 12:55:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:03:58 -!- mortape123 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:21:08 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:43:39 -!- ter2 has joined. 13:57:45 fwiw, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter lists the current filters 13:58:20 I'm not sure about that #4. it seems overly restrictive 13:58:23 I guess you can just use

though. 13:58:31 (but then, the description is misleading.) 14:13:49 -!- ter2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:25:56 elliot: you can just put a newline at the start of the page before the == mark and it works 14:26:10 elliot: I've put a comment and a newline so that I don't try to delete the newline in the future 14:26:53 You can write an intro to the page 14:28:32 Jafet: sure, I can write "hello, I'm b_jonas" or something 14:37:03 b_jonas:

blah

is just as easy 14:53:30 http://sprunge.us/eEHB let's see you remotely TR-069-administrate my modem now, Mr. ISP. 14:56:14 elliott: but will the wiki put that to the toc? 14:56:19 the wiki formatter that is 14:56:22 let me try 14:56:24 yes 14:56:27 nice 14:56:28 it's not like your page has a TOC though. 14:56:44 (at least, I believe yes) 14:56:57 doesn't have a toc yet, because I haven't forced the toc with that magic string and has too few sections 14:57:28 a user page long enough for a TOC is a sure sign of ego :p 14:57:40 (okay, or more often on the wiki, brilliance) 14:57:50 (or both.) 14:58:23 Eccentricity > 1 14:58:27 just checked, mediawiki does put the

to the toc as well 14:58:28 great 15:02:09 elliott: then I have ego. my userpages on both en.wikipedia and en.wiktionary have sections. 15:02:41 enough sections to have a TOC without forcing it. 16:03:04 -!- ^v has joined. 16:05:36 love the latest GG comic. 16:29:31 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:37:09 int-e: GG? 16:38:55 girl genius 16:39:04 boily would know ;) 16:39:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:39:30 ah 16:41:28 (I may be mixing up oerjan and boily. I hope not.) 16:42:15 I read GG 16:42:19 Today's was good 16:42:31 fwiw, I also read FF 16:42:42 freefall? 16:42:46 Aye 16:43:05 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/10741243/Government-pays-Microsoft-5.5m-to-extend-Windows-XP-support.html 16:44:45 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:44:48 How about GC? 16:46:36 gene catlow? stopped reading in 2009. 16:47:12 (that's the only match in my comic bookmarks) 16:47:28 I was referring to Gunnerkrigg Court, actually. 16:47:33 err 16:47:44 Pattern match failure then. 16:47:47 I do read that one. 16:47:53 Funny. 16:49:21 Yes, I read that 16:49:22 And EGS 16:50:02 BACON and EGGS. 16:50:42 Taneb: bookmark points to http://www.egscomics.com/?date=2010-07-12 16:51:25 I was moving at the time, starting on a new job, ... I guess that's why I stopped reading. And I didn't miss it enough to start again. 16:53:30 I probably stopped reading EGGS around thereabouts, too. 17:21:20 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:01:14 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:30:38 <^v> i have a massive number which is x^x http://pastebin.com/dxYJhSWh 18:30:42 <^v> how do i find out what x is 18:34:21 lambert W function i bet 18:34:25 -!- olsner has joined. 18:35:45 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 18:37:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services). 18:37:18 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 18:37:35 > 666^666 18:37:36 (input):1:4: error: expected: "$", 18:37:36 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 18:37:36 "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 18:37:36 "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 18:37:36 ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 18:37:37 2715417592887128558260874551700217860278385210650169871782230046965783675347... 18:37:59 -!- nooodl has changed nick to nooodl_. 18:38:05 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 18:38:27 idris-ircslave: stop reacting to lambdabot's prefixes 18:38:27 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 18:38:27 No such variable stop 18:40:19 olsner: Use @run. 18:40:45 idris-ircslave: 666**666 18:40:45 (input):1:4: error: expected: "$", 18:40:45 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "***", "+", 18:40:45 "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", "/=", 18:40:45 ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", ":=", 18:40:45 "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>", "<+>",↵… 18:42:02 There’s no infix operator for it yet, because nobody’s gotten around to adding it. 18:42:27 ( :t pow 18:42:27 Prelude.pow : Num a => a -> Nat -> a 18:43:11 :t powerMod 18:43:13 Not in scope: `powerMod' 18:43:15 sad :( 18:44:47 >>> itertools.ifilter(lambda x: pow(x, x, 1000000) == 598016, itertools.count()).next() 18:44:52 this is a fun way to find it 18:45:09 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 18:50:01 "solve x^x = (big number here) for x real" in W|A works up to some point, though not quite up to 666^666 without W|A Pro. 18:50:01 % Solve[x^x == 2.715*10^1880, x] 18:50:14 {{x -> 665.9999794971646}} 19:07:14 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 19:07:39 -!- ^v has joined. 19:11:41 -!- tertu has joined. 19:26:28 -!- nooodl has changed nick to fcrawl. 19:34:30 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:34:57 -!- ^v has joined. 19:35:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvK_07KRV8 19:46:55 -!- tertu_ has joined. 19:47:49 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:04:49 -!- tertu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:13:18 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:23:47 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 20:25:40 -!- tertu has joined. 20:31:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:32:49 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 20:35:14 love the latest GG comic. <-- yep 20:36:30 I can't find my Winterbells high score. :/ 20:36:44 (I may be mixing up oerjan and boily. I hope not.) <-- it's conceivable we both read it. 20:38:12 Taneb: DD, FF and GG, the cream of webcomics. 20:39:13 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 20:42:54 GG is Girl Genius, FF is Freefall, but what's DD now? 20:43:13 ah, you mean Darths and Droids 20:43:14 duh 20:43:36 i don't know any of them :( 20:43:42 or maybe Doghouse Diaries? hmmm 20:43:48 stupid acronyms 20:44:00 myname: if it helps, http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/grn lists all webcomics I read and many I don't read 20:44:34 i'd love something like a generic wbcomic reader for android 20:44:47 myname: don't you have a browser? 20:45:01 for almost all webcomics, you only need a browser 20:45:09 i don't want to read webcomics via gprs 20:45:19 oh, I see 20:45:42 I have some webcomics downloaded, both to read locally and to have a backup copy in case the online one disappears 20:45:48 do you want some of them zipped? 20:46:33 i could do that myself, but it's just a huge lack of comfort 20:47:06 augur: i found that presentation a bit one-sided. 20:47:08 on contrary, for some webcomics (not all by far) it's quite convenient to read off-line using a plain image viewer 20:47:58 oerjan: *rimshot* 20:48:09 i am looking forward to manga watcher adding custom sites 20:48:10 oerjan: actually i was iritated by the last bagel, cause its not a moebius bagel 20:48:22 it's not? 20:48:28 i may build a wrapper site for webcomics 20:48:59 what the hell is a moebius bagel 20:49:07 myname, that's not actually legal 20:49:13 myname: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRvK_07KRV8 20:49:19 Sort of 20:49:21 I think 20:49:30 i guess it's a möbius bagel complement 20:49:36 Taneb: yeah, but i don't care 20:49:56 I used to have a Perl script that watched a web page for a changing image (with crummy parse-HTML-with-regexps rules to detect the current image) and fake a RSS feed entry with a direct link to that image, for webcomics that don't do feeds. 20:49:58 i don't have any plans of making it widely accessable 20:50:02 It worked reasonably well. 20:50:21 fizzie: Hmm, potentially addictive. I presume that 59k is still a fairly low score. 20:50:42 int-e: Well, I found mine, and it was approximately 107383695948381900000. 20:50:56 int-e: The five last digits didn't fit in the counter, so it's hard to be sure. 20:50:58 yeah. doubling is a stupid idea. 20:51:26 It did take maybe a 15-minute session to rack up that score. 20:51:27 (but nevertheless it'll take quite a bit of practice to get that far. I'd rather play 2048) 20:51:31 @run logBase 2 107383695948381900000 20:51:33 66.54133686351024 20:51:45 oerjan: its not 20:51:59 its just a bagel with a double twisted cut 20:51:59 int-e: Also, I was playing it with a Wacom tablet back then, which I think made it rather easier. 20:52:20 this is plain wrong 20:58:04 myname: mobius bagel: http://www.georgehart.com/bagel/bagel.html 21:09:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:11:03 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 21:31:52 «b = uicontrol('Style','pushbutton','Units','normalized','Position',[.5 .5 .2 .1],'String','click here');» now b equals .0015. thanks matlab. 21:44:22 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 21:44:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:47:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:49:04 -!- yorick has joined. 22:16:54 "ME-E4100 Advanced Computer Graphics -- The course concludes in a rendering competition -- The winner will be chosen by Eric Tabellion of Dreamworks Animation -- The competition has a main prize of a Geforce GTX TITAN graphics card, courtesy of Nvidia Corporation." 22:16:58 So... incentivized. 22:17:16 (Also I don't think they had anything like that going on when I was doing the related courses.) 22:18:44 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:19:17 -!- olsner has joined. 22:21:12 fizzie: you know anything about GUIDE? 22:25:53 TIL facebook wrote their own C preprocessor https://code.facebook.com/posts/476987592402291/under-the-hood-warp-a-fast-c-and-c-preprocessor/ 22:27:51 skimmed some low-level optimizations it makes use of, but does it do something clever too? 22:28:28 beats 22:28:29 me 22:28:38 apparently clang's is still faster, because it uses SSE4 string ops on x86 22:29:52 kmc: "walter bright wrote a C preprocessor for facebook", even 22:30:04 should i know who that is 22:30:09 he created D 22:30:22 also a long-time C and C++ compilers guy 22:30:25 dick joke 22:32:32 "If you use a name that MATLAB cannot unambiguously distinguish as a variable inside a parfor-loop, atparse time MATLAB assumes you are referencing a function" i hate this system so much 22:35:54 Whyyy is that even different? 22:36:58 () is overloaded to mean function call on functions, or matrix access on variables, because idon't fucking know 22:40:20 Ohright, I don’t think you can do matrix access on a literal, either … 22:42:12 nope. 22:43:17 expression more like dontneedthatession 22:45:11 wow GUIDE is just like visual basic, jesus christ i haven't used this since middle school 22:49:58 -!- conehead has joined. 23:12:50 -!- ^v has joined. 23:16:38 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:23:07 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:23:29 -!- fcrawl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:24:09 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to fcrawl. 23:31:52 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 23:33:45 -!- Sellyme has joined. 23:34:31 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:35:04 I imagine that GCC's preprocessor is pretty easy to beat on speed though. 23:35:55 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:37:53 -!- Bike has joined. 23:38:03 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:38:37 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 23:39:14 -!- Sellyme has joined. 23:39:58 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:45:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:56:37 -!- tertu has joined. 2014-04-05: 00:07:54 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:10:43 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 00:12:45 -!- Sellyme has joined. 00:37:39 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has changed nick to Patashu. 00:39:19 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:41:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 00:42:36 -!- conehead has joined. 00:42:36 -!- conehead has quit (Client Quit). 00:55:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:59:39 Maybe telling a charity telemarketer that I feel like I have too much money is not a good idea... 00:59:44 Was asked for $365 01:00:23 lol 01:00:25 sgeo 01:00:36 did you pony up 01:00:49 I made no promises 01:02:52 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:02:52 -!- ter2 has joined. 01:04:17 Sgeo: Do what I do, and purchase a $1000 monitor. 01:04:44 I have no place to put it 01:04:54 Pshaw 01:07:10 do what I did, and purchase a $1000 monitor and two $250 monitors 01:07:37 seriously though, Sgeo, do you know of http://www.givewell.org/ 01:07:39 I'm pretty sure I don't have cause for another monitor. This thing is huge. 01:07:52 kmc: I do 01:08:27 I've donated to them a few times. I did mention that to the telemarketer, who was all 'we have 4 stars on Charity Navigator' 01:08:34 (They do. It's UNICEF) 01:09:03 Have you considered... having less money? 01:09:44 cool 01:10:50 Sgeo: if you find a way for donating large amounts of money to produce more than a slight and transient easing of guilt, let me know 01:11:05 I think I probably need to do one thing to be objectively helpful, and another thing to feel good about myself 01:12:14 Donating large amounts of money on a regular basis automatically? I plan on trying... well, not sufficiently large amounts, but something like that 01:12:38 Although I'm sure there would be some guilt with any amount <100% 01:21:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:24:28 https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/9986166 speeding up an ASCII whitespace scan by a factor of 5 using SSE 4.2 01:24:31 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:27:46 How does it compare against http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/string/memchr.c ? 01:27:57 don't know 01:28:11 that only looks for a single byte though 01:28:14 this can do a set of up to 16 01:28:51 this is pretty gnarly code 01:35:05 Ah, so it's more like strspn. 01:35:31 kmc: apparently I forgot that Rust has macros :/ 01:35:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:35:58 http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/224gc0/rust_010_released/cgjpkwh?context=1 01:37:00 420 smoke macros every day 01:38:14 RUST IS NOT A GAME WHERE NAKED MEN MURDER EACH OTHER WITH HATCHETS 01:39:55 what 01:41:17 there is a video game entitled "rust" in which player avatars are naked and murder each other with hatchets 01:41:42 then Sgeo is lying 01:45:52 maybe the name of the game is case-sensitive 01:46:42 http://playrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/RustLogo-Normal-Transparent.png it's usually stylized "RUST" though 01:46:59 wow i don't know why it looks like that 01:50:24 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:14:47 https://github.com/mozilla/rust/issues/12723 02:19:18 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 02:26:30 not bad, metajack 02:27:03 -!- madbr has joined. 02:27:06 sup 02:27:38 coughing 02:28:00 here's a question 02:28:20 What kind of question? 02:28:22 how efficient is llvm's alias analysis? 02:28:31 zzo38 : a hard one 02:28:40 efficient as in how well does it work, or efficient as in how fast does the analysis itself run 02:28:44 actually I'm not expecting an answer 02:28:51 how well 02:29:56 mostly up to what kind of inner loops can it figure out that none of the writes alias any of the reads 02:31:07 essentially trying to figure if my architecture concept is never gonna work :D 02:32:09 mostly interested in the kind of number crunching loops you get in video games 02:32:40 video rendering, sound rendering, physics simulations, floating point stuff 02:33:09 So would you then have instructions dedicated to video, audio, and physics? 02:33:29 don't care about the kind of code that's all function calls, hashes, graph parsing, linked lists... that kind of code is generally impossible to accelerate anyways 02:33:45 zzo: no 02:34:15 zzo: just an architecture that can run ~8 instances of a loop at the same time 02:34:35 Yes, you should need some parallel instructions. 02:34:36 without multithreading 02:35:10 right, it's similar to autovectorization but a little more general 02:35:27 essentially it adds possibility for feedback loops 02:36:06 wait, feedback? how? 02:36:23 In esolang wiki, there is a article called "Checkout" it describes a code for parallel looping, and some other things 02:36:23 each slice runs 1~2~etc slices after the previous one 02:36:25 oh jeez, "jmp 3" and "jmp 3f" are not the same instruction at all 02:36:27 jumping to 0x0000000000000003 considered harmful 02:37:08 so if the longest feedback loop takes 1 cycle to propagate (ie some kind of accumulator), then slice 2 runs 1 instruction later than slice 1 02:38:25 if you're doing something like a filter and it takes, say, 10 cycles due to having a couple multiplies in the loop, then slice 2 runs 10 cycles later, slice 3 runs 20 cycles later, slice 4 runs 30 cycles later etc 02:39:55 it's probably mostly for math heavy DSP kind of code since you can still only do 1 memory read per cycle across all slices 02:40:29 except for really simple cases like an SSE-style aligned block of values 02:41:38 so essentially you need 7 math ops to do for every 1 memory read 02:42:04 if you make it dual-issue then you need 15 math ops for every 1 memory read :D 02:43:20 You should then use a "load program" instruction, to load the program into internal memory, and then other instruction set up each execution unit, and then you can make it slice like that to don't interfere with memory access. 02:44:21 but then you have to operate on really small data loads 02:44:34 like, cache-size data loads 02:44:48 kinda like the ps3's cell processor actually 02:45:09 What is the cache size? 02:45:58 it depends on how the chip is made 02:46:13 but it's definitively under 1 meg 02:46:34 probably in the 32k~256k range 02:47:13 essentially it becomes a cell processor like on the ps3 02:49:04 kmc: Oh jeeze. 02:49:39 which kinda became moot when they figured out how to turn x86 into 8 cores (which is a pretty scary concept tbh) 02:52:32 anyhow, if llvm can figure out that none of the memory reads can alias any of the writes inside a loop, you can autovectorize anything that has predictable flow 02:53:58 if it doesn't have something like "half the operations are memory operations" or "feedback loop is as long as the loop itself so the loop is essentially 100% serial", you can probably come out ahead in terms of speed 02:57:29 kindof an anti-pentium2 02:58:59 which seems to be based around the idea that most programs are horrible unoptimizable crudge made out of jumps and memory accesses 02:59:46 So... programs. 02:59:51 http://www.beepboopbitcoin.com/ Finally. 03:00:07 (the fastest cpus are still ultimately based on that design which I guess says something about software... or maybe about how people benchmark them) 03:05:38 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:07:53 is it like controversial that most programs are made of jumps and memory accesses? 03:08:21 well 03:08:34 -!- fcrawl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:08:49 no but it's essentially the unoptimizable part of programs 03:09:04 since it has lots of stuff like short dependencies 03:09:22 Some things in the program could be manually optimized though 03:09:55 scanned 100 MB of data for ASCII space characters in about 8 ms 03:09:59 12 GB/s ain't bad 03:10:06 it's within a factor of 2 of the theoretical max memory bandwidth 03:26:29 <^v> 47 is one of my favorite numbers now 03:26:46 I agree. It's a pretty good number 03:28:00 <^v> it (47*x)%256 can be anywhere from 0-255 03:28:19 what causes that, 256 and 47 being coprime probably? 03:29:10 aren't all odd numbers coprime to 256? 03:29:11 <^v> i recently found this out by making a text to Barely converter 03:29:30 <^v> copumpkin, yes actually, fuck 03:29:42 * ^v stabs 4 7 03:46:25 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:49:37 rsa-8 :D 03:52:00 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:07:39 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:13:04 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:14:45 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:14:50 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 04:14:50 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:22:49 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:25:46 -!- conehead has joined. 04:27:02 <^v> so 04:27:18 <^v> i made hello world in barely 04:27:19 <^v> xoooooooooooooohjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjhhhxooooooooxooooooxjjjxjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjxjjjjjjjjhxooooooooooooxooohjjjjhhhxjjjxxjjjjjjjxjjjjjjjhhjhhhhoooooxhoooooooooooooooooooooohjhhhoooooooooooo~ 04:30:08 <^v> and holy shit i made it smaller 04:30:09 <^v> xjhhhhxooooooooxooooooxjjjxhhoohhhhxjjjjjjjjhxooooooooooooxjhhhhxjjjxxjjjjjjjxjjjhhhhhhxjjjjjjjjjjjjjjhhhh~ 04:30:58 it looks like a cat is walking on your keyboard 04:31:46 <^v> i am the kind of asshole who makes hello worlds in languages that dont have them yet 04:31:50 <^v> and doesnt post them to the wiki 04:32:23 <^v> what i have so far: fishstacks and barely 04:32:26 <^v> need to make more 04:32:29 <^v> just to piss people off 04:32:49 I would want the instruction set, where, implicit vectorization/out-of-order/pipelining/caching/etc is not allowed. 04:33:40 <^v> and mind you, these are all pregenerated tables which i can use to convert text to that lang instantly 04:33:54 <^v> which i am not giving to you, because i am an asshole 04:35:57 zzo38 : I'm not sure sure that's possible 04:36:10 zzo38 : though you can make it really hard :D 04:37:04 <^v> a compiler that disagrees with you if you do something too complicated 04:38:29 madbr: What do you mean by that? 04:38:37 well 04:38:52 without self modifying code you can simply cache the code 04:38:59 and cache the data 04:39:48 the running core cannot figure out that it got hella cached 04:40:02 or even out-of-ordered 04:40:04 I mean, that cache is only accessed by instructions which explicitly access the cache in the certain way. 04:40:44 And then, the instructions in cache are VLIW which is different from instructions from external memory, is another possibility. 04:41:29 explicit cache I think doesn't gain anything AFAIK 04:42:23 <^v> well 04:42:40 <^v> because i dont feel like being an asshole today, here is the conversion table: https://gist.github.com/infinikiller64/9987604 04:42:53 It gains not complicating the execution with not knowing the cache and having to just guess instead, making also the speed confusing... 04:42:53 <^v> warning: your browser will probably crash 04:43:42 ^v: Then put "view-source:" at front, or download using curl, and then the browser might not crash as much. 04:43:54 <^v> fine 04:43:54 <^v> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/infinikiller64/9987604/raw/07db8ab7a7e64a58e4f2fb3bb957296b5a54f2cf/gistfile1.lua 04:44:14 OK, that one better 04:44:18 <^v> 891.06KB 04:44:55 <^v> 256^2 values 04:46:42 zzo38 : it simplifies the design I guess yeah 04:46:45 madbr: I think simplicity of the implementation is better than simplicity of the interface, and simplicity is better than completeness, robustness, correctness, sanity, etc. 04:47:13 but to get the kind of RISC speed there's more or less no way around a data and instruction cache 04:47:21 Yes, I always want to simplify the design. 04:47:26 otherwise your speed is going to be on the order of the 386 04:47:39 I did not say to eliminate the cache entirely, but to make it explicit-only. 04:47:44 unless you use pseudo-static ram or some other similar exotic part 04:48:23 zzo38 : then you're still going to need 2 RAM banks probably 04:48:37 one for data, one for instructions 04:49:46 the problem is that DRAM has pages :( 04:49:59 There would still be an internal cache, which is also used for microcodes, so in instruction cache it would be VLIW codes 04:50:55 opening a new page and reading a value is something like 3 times slower than reading a value from an already open page 04:51:05 more if you're using more recent DRAM 04:52:10 pages are something like 512bytes/1k/2k/4k/8k etc depending on DRAM generation/size 04:52:27 It could use 8-bits external memory interface, and 128-bits for internal memory interface for cache, so you can deal with arrays of whatever bit size of data, you loaded, and is also for use with VLIW, which has longer instructions than the external one. 04:53:06 I'm not sure you can guzzle picture data from RAM fast enough if your external memory is only 8 bits 04:53:08 madbr: It would be OK, as long as, the number of clock cycles is based on a fixed DRAM size/speeds 04:55:39 if your part is a cpu, it's going to mix up accesses to data with accesses to instructions 04:55:51 so you're going to have the page-change-penalty every cycle 04:56:04 well, every time you access data actually 04:56:10 http://web.archive.org/web/19990128210124/http://people.netscape.com/brendan/ this is real right? tell me it is 04:56:34 <^v> function SwapBack() { document.knob.src = Image1.src; return true; } 04:56:57 <^v> all i see 04:56:58 madbr: You could have a separate GPU as well, as CPU, so it is possible to write the program in the way to act in parallel; you can also store the data in the cache which you would use mostly often, to increase the speed; and, depending on the way the program is written to use/unuse cache, use self-modifying codes, too. 04:57:01 <^v> page still loading 04:57:14 (Possibly even the program in cache is allowed to modify itself) 04:58:16 Self-modifying codes should be allowed, as it is very useful. 04:58:31 I'm not convinced it's worth the complexity 04:58:58 If you store the value of a variable in an immediate operand, then you can avoid a page penalty. 04:59:01 Bike: not enough jquery 04:59:13 (It also avoid a memory access, too.) 04:59:24 except it's still a memory access 04:59:50 and later on when you're pipelining your architecture, you're in deep trouble 05:00:42 Some instruction sets don't have pipeline stalls, so it avoids that problem; you then need to program them yourself. 05:01:23 You can also, tell it to copy it to the cache and then tell it to read/write cache and execute instruction in a cache, is another way speeding it up a bit. 05:01:24 it's really hard to avoid pipeline stalls 05:01:36 if you have cache you have pipeline stalls 05:01:55 if you have branch prediction you have pipeline flushes 05:01:56 That is why, it has to be explicit-only cache. 05:02:26 if you have something like load reg, [reg + 5] 05:02:33 you have pipeline stalls 05:02:36 If you use it wrong, you are subject to the consequences by yourself. 05:02:57 because if the reg in [reg + 5] changes the cycle before, you have to catch that 05:04:01 madbr: The program would be written to avoid that if you want it to use the register that changes in the cycle before. 05:04:40 then your program has extra nops every time some other useful instruction can't be swapped in 05:05:14 the extra nops take up extra code cache which makes the thing slower 05:05:15 Yes, it does, but if you don't have another useful instruction to put in, then be careful maybe you wrote your program badly and there might be a way to fix it. 05:05:25 -!- oklopol has joined. 05:05:32 depends on the kind of algo 05:05:49 if it's number crunching stuff then usually there's something you can stuff in yes 05:06:07 if it's like, zip decompression or something nasty like that... god have mercy on you 05:06:14 Anyways, my suggestion was that, the instruction cache would be VLIW, so different than the instruction set used for executing external memory anyways 05:06:45 (It would execute microcode ROM if the instruction cache is not being executed.) 05:07:30 I guess vliw would be ok if you had a way to switch to some less efficient instruction set 05:07:46 for like non-number-crunching code 05:08:08 where you're going to do lots of memory accesses anyways so there's no point to having 6 ALUs 05:08:37 and then for that one hand-optimized crunching loop, use the VLIW mode 05:08:49 <^v> Bike, the page finnaly loaded and xD 05:08:58 yeah 05:09:33 If the program isn't in cache, it would use a less efficieint instruction set. Otherwise, if it is in the cache, you would need to implement your own instruction set that the program in microcode RAM runs from the rest of the cache. 05:10:20 essentially this is what the ARM does with the THUMB vs ARM 05:11:09 thumb is 16 bits which limits the number of ram cycles you lose to loading in the stuff 05:12:40 though you could probably just have a VLIW that has a choice between 1 big VLIW instruction word, or an instruction word that encodes multiple one-cycle instructions 05:14:09 Sure, that is another possibility 05:15:46 it's hard to find a good balance in this kinda thing :D 05:17:08 optimal instruction is somewhere between 16 and 32 bits AFAIK 05:17:42 less than 16 and it's too small, not enough bits for the register selection 05:18:08 plus you need too much granularity in your instruction word shifter 05:19:56 more than 32 and you're probably wasting too much instruction cache space, unless it's VLIW and you're packing more than one instruction per word... 05:20:05 AFAIK this was a major problem on itanium 05:20:57 also if your cpu is dual issue that is kinda equivalent-ish to making your instructions 64bits 05:22:39 What does "dual issue" mean? 05:22:47 two instructions per cycle 05:23:23 see: intel pentium, ARM A8 (used on lots of older iphones), one MIPS generation (can't remember which) 05:23:35 I think there was also one of the 68k that was designed like that 05:23:54 afaik it's one of the cpu design "sweet spots" 05:24:26 less than 2 and you're running 1 instruction per cycle... and essentially twice as slow 05:24:45 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:25:05 more than 2 and chances are you're going to need crazy stuff like out of order execution to make it any faster than 2 instructions per cycle 05:25:19 (though I guess the IBM POWER6 did it) 05:25:20 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:25:55 -!- tromp has joined. 05:25:59 (and it really depends on the type of program, I'm sure you can do a lot more in-order if your programs are number crunching or floating point) 05:28:07 I guess it all comes down to "what kind of game is going to run on it" :D 05:30:09 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:31:03 the general problem with a VLIW is to make it faster than a well designed RISC 05:31:56 ie "pay for" your large instructions by figuring out stuff for your CPU to do in the leftover slots 05:33:16 if this fails, the RISC is faster than you because it needs less code cache 05:35:37 generally the stuff that reduces your gains are stuff like 05:35:52 - ram/cache read ports 05:36:07 - register file read/write ports 05:37:39 - absolute latencies in instruction processing, which can also be described as "lack of number crunching to do while working on the critical-latency-path" 05:41:37 that being said, gfx and sound rendering are more or less the ideal case for finding stuff that won't fall into these limits and will actually benefit from VLIW or similar stuff like SIMD 05:42:15 <^v> anyone still have barely.asm? 05:42:21 <^v> link b bork 05:46:25 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:49:56 > fix (sequence [(!! 1), 2 + 2]) 05:49:56 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 05:49:57 No such variable fix 05:49:58 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 05:49:58 arising from a use of `M688017572578786861922522.show_M6880175725787868619... 05:49:58 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 05:49:58 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 05:49:58 Note: there are several potential instances: 05:50:22 <^v> ._. 05:50:24 <^v> dat spam 05:50:26 @run fix (sequence [(!! 1), 2 + 2]) :: [Int] 05:50:27 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num ([GHC.Types.Int] -> GHC.Types.Int)) 05:50:27 arising from a use of `GHC.Num.+' 05:50:27 Possible fix: 05:50:27 add an instance declaration for 05:50:27 (GHC.Num.Num ([GHC.Types.Int] -> GHC.Types.Int)) 05:50:34 <^v> wow 05:50:53 What 05:50:56 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 05:50:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:51:06 @run fix (sequence [(!! 1), (2 +)]) 05:51:07 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = [a0] 05:51:08 Expected type: [a0] -> a0 05:51:08 Actual type: [a0] -> [a0] 05:51:09 Trying to recreate something similar to the loeb example 05:51:28 With just reader monad + fix 05:54:35 :t sequence [(!! 1), const (2 + 2)] 05:54:36 Num a => [a] -> [a] 05:54:44 @run fix $ sequence [(!! 1), const (2 + 2)] 05:54:45 [4,4] 05:54:56 @run fix $ sequence [ (!!5), const 3, liftM2 (+) (!!0) (!!1), (*2) . (!!2), length, const 17 ] 05:54:57 [17,3,20,40,6,17] 05:55:35 @let loeb :: [[a] -> a] -> [a]; loeb = fix . sequence 05:55:37 Defined. 05:56:06 Actually 05:56:12 That's not the standard defintion of loeb, is it? 05:56:12 :t fix . sequence 05:56:13 [[a] -> a] -> [a] 05:56:34 The type looked more general than that, but sequence is constraining it 05:57:09 :t let loeb x = ($ loeb x) <$> x in loeb 05:57:10 Functor f => f (f b -> b) -> f b 05:57:46 :t fix . sequenceA 05:57:47 Not in scope: `sequenceA' 05:57:47 Perhaps you meant one of these: 05:57:47 `T.sequenceA' (imported from Data.Traversable), 05:57:52 :t fix . T.sequenceA 05:57:53 Traversable t => t (t a -> a) -> t a 05:58:49 @pl loeb x = ($ loeb x) <$> x -- trivial fix 05:58:49 loeb = fix ((<$>) . flip id =<<) 06:00:12 @fundefine 06:00:13 Undefined. 06:00:27 @let loeb = fix (fmap.flip id =<<) 06:00:28 .L.hs:142:13: 06:00:29 No instance for (Functor f0) arising from a use of `fmap' 06:00:29 The type variable `f0' is ambiguous 06:00:29 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 06:00:29 Note: there are several potential instances: 06:01:18 @let loeb :: Functor f => f (f b -> b) -> f b; loeb = fix (fmap.flip id =<<) 06:01:19 Defined. 06:04:15 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 06:15:22 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:25:58 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:28:13 :t loeb 06:28:14 Functor f => f (f b -> b) -> f b 06:28:58 > loeb Just (\Just x -> x) 06:28:58 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 06:28:59 No such variable loeb 06:28:59 Constructor `Data.Maybe.Just' should have 1 argument, but has been given none 06:29:18 > loeb Just (\(Just x) -> x) 06:29:19 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 06:29:19 No such variable loeb 06:29:20 Couldn't match type `Data.Maybe.Maybe (Data.Maybe.Maybe t0 -> t0)' 06:29:20 with `((Data.Maybe.Maybe t0 -> t0) -> b0) -> b0' 06:29:20 Expected type: (Data.Maybe.Maybe t0 -> t0) 06:29:20 -> ((Data.Maybe.Maybe t0 -> t0) -> b0) -> b0 06:29:20 Actual type: (Data.Maybe.Maybe t0 -> t0) 06:34:11 @run loeb $ Just fromJust 06:34:14 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 06:34:44 > let fun :: (Functor f, Functor g) => f -> g -> (f b -> b) -> f b -> g b; fun f g x = f ( g x) in fun Just Just (\(Just x) -> x) 9 06:34:44 (input):1:9: error: expected: "=" 06:34:44 let fun :: (Functor f, Functor g) => f -> g -> (f b -> b) -> f b -> g b; fun > 06:34:44 ^ 06:34:45 Expecting one more argument to `f' 06:34:52 ^- what's wrong with that? 06:35:14 Everything 06:36:03 > let bar :: Functor f => f -> a -> f a; bar f x = f x in (bar Just) 9 06:36:03 (input):1:9: error: expected: "=" 06:36:03 let bar :: Functor f => f -> a -> f a; bar f x = f x in (bar Just) 9 06:36:03 ^ 06:36:04 Expecting one more argument to `f' 06:36:16 I see. 06:36:35 @run let fun :: (Functor f, Functor g) => (a -> f a) -> (a -> g a) -> (f a -> a) -> f a -> g a; fun f g x = f (g x) in fun Just (:[]) (\(Just x) -> x) (Just 9) 06:36:36 Could not deduce (a ~ g a) 06:36:36 from the context (GHC.Base.Functor f, GHC.Base.Functor g) 06:36:36 bound by the type signature for 06:36:36 fun :: (GHC.Base.Functor f, GHC.Base.Functor g) => 06:36:36 (a -> f a) -> (a -> g a) -> (f a -> a) -> f a -> g a 06:37:00 > let bar :: Functor f => (a -> f a) -> a -> f a; bar f x = f x in (bar Just) 9 06:37:01 (input):1:9: error: expected: "=" 06:37:01 let bar :: Functor f => (a -> f a) -> a -> f a; bar f x = f x in (bar Just) 9<> 06:37:01 ^ 06:37:02 Just 9 06:37:11 ah. I see the problem. 06:37:15 thx 06:37:53 @run id Just 9 06:37:54 -!- ter2 has joined. 06:37:54 Just 9 06:39:37 @run return 9 :: Maybe Int 06:39:39 Just 9 06:43:16 @run id (Just 9) == (id Just) 9 06:43:17 True 06:48:31 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:04:35 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 07:54:49 -!- trolly has joined. 08:02:36 -!- trolly has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:14:29 -!- sgelios has joined. 08:17:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:25:08 -!- sgelios has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:37:10 Huh, is Brainfuck/Ook commonly used in goecaching circles? This geocaching tool I stumbled upon while looking for something else -- http://gcc.eisbehr.de/features.html -- lists conversions between text, Brainfuck and Ook among its features. 08:38:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:38:07 (Also an absolutely ludicrous list of non-eso things.) 08:39:41 Yogscast is getting pretty huge 08:56:16 @run length . nub . take 128 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*47) `mod` 256 08:56:17 16 08:56:33 hm 08:57:51 @run nub [length . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*n) `mod` 256) | n <- [0..255]] 08:57:52 :1:70: parse error on input `)' 08:58:02 @run nub [length . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*n) `mod` 256 | n <- [0..255]] 08:58:03 [2,1,9,64,5,32,4,16,3,8] 08:58:42 none 128, so not cyclic 08:59:27 > 355/3 08:59:27 118.33333333333333 : Float 08:59:28 118.33333333333333 08:59:34 @run 255/3 08:59:35 85.0 09:01:03 hm why is there no 7 i there 09:01:08 or 7 09:01:12 *or 6 09:01:23 oh hm right 09:02:28 @run nubBy ((==) `on` snd) [(n, length . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*n) `mod` 256) | n <- [0..255]] 09:02:29 [(0,2),(1,1),(2,9),(3,64),(4,5),(7,32),(8,4),(15,16),(16,3),(31,8)] 09:03:40 @run nubBy ((==) `on` snd) [(n, length . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*n) `mod` 256) | n <- [1, 3..255]] 09:03:41 [(1,1),(3,64),(7,32),(15,16),(31,8),(63,4),(127,2)] 09:04:57 Nub nub nub. 09:05:43 -!- zzo38 has joined. 09:06:43 @run last . sort . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*3) `mod` 256) 09:06:45 :1:70: parse error on input `)' 09:06:49 @run last . sort . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*3) `mod` 256 09:06:50 251 09:07:22 ok so 3 and 255 are summand generators 09:08:39 @run sort . nub . take 256 . flip iterate 1 $ \x -> (x*3) `mod` 256 09:08:39 [1,3,9,11,17,19,25,27,33,35,41,43,49,51,57,59,65,67,73,75,81,83,89,91,97,99,... 09:10:26 I keep wanting you to write \x -> (x*n) `mod` 256 as flip mod 256 . (n*) instead, because it has less pokey bits. 09:12:02 i pretty clearly decided against making that pointfree at one point. 09:14:04 @run nubBy ((==) `on` snd) [(n, length . nub . take 256 $ iterate (n*) 1 ) | n <- [0..255 :: Word8]] -- another option 09:14:05 [(0,2),(1,1),(2,9),(3,64),(4,5),(7,32),(8,4),(15,16),(16,3),(31,8)] 09:30:07 sort . nub -> head . group . sort 09:30:18 grr 09:30:20 map had 09:30:30 I give up. 09:31:42 that's like, longer 09:32:10 -!- ski has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 09:32:23 and it wasn't in the inner loop 09:32:34 oh wait 09:43:20 -!- yorick has joined. 09:43:49 oerjan: I do that habitually; I usually get it right the first time, too, when actually coding. 09:44:11 * int-e should have an nubOrd helper instead. 09:48:30 @run id * 3 `mod` 256 $ 123 -- I forgot whether this is still in lambdabot. 09:48:31 No instance for (GHC.Show.Show a0) 09:48:31 arising from a use of `M826470610663680039923602.show_M8264706106636800399... 09:48:31 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 09:48:31 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 09:48:31 Note: there are several potential instances: 09:48:55 @run 0 0 :: Integer 09:48:56 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num a0) arising from the literal `0' 09:48:56 The type variable `a0' is ambiguous 09:48:56 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 09:48:56 Note: there are several potential instances: 09:48:56 instance GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Double 09:49:09 @run (0 :: Integer -> Integer) 0 09:49:10 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num 09:49:10 (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> GHC.Integer.Type.Integer)) 09:49:10 arising from the literal `0' 09:49:10 Possible fix: 09:49:10 add an instance declaration for 09:49:15 (when Cale ran it, there used to be a Num a => Num (r -> a) instance, acting pointwise 09:49:18 ) 09:49:44 @instances Num 09:49:45 Double, Float, Int, Integer 09:49:55 @instances-importing Num 09:49:55 Double, Float, Int, Integer 09:49:57 i remember that, also when it was removed 09:50:19 which is really irritating if you make a mistake in numeric code somewhere, but id * const k `mod` 256 would be kind of cool. 09:50:23 @help instances-importing 09:50:23 instances-importing [ [ [. Fetch the instances of a typeclass, importing specified modules first. 09:50:41 Jafet: i think that requires the module list to do anything different 09:51:25 (ironically it's longer than \x -> x * k `mod` 256) 09:51:50 yeah function instances confuse matters, which is why i was surprised they added the monadic ones by default to ghci lately 09:56:27 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:58:24 @run (ap, ap.ap, ap.ap.ap, ap.ap.ap.ap) 09:58:25 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable1 m0) 09:58:25 arising from a use of `M431492159472810415423670.show_M4314921594728104154... 09:58:25 The type variable `m0' is ambiguous 09:58:25 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 09:58:25 Note: there are several potential instances: 09:58:30 :t (ap, ap.ap, ap.ap.ap, ap.ap.ap.ap) 09:58:31 Monad m => (m (a -> b) -> m a -> m b, (a1 -> a2 -> b1) -> ((a1 -> a2) -> a1) -> (a1 -> a2) -> b1, (a3 -> a4 -> b2) -> (((a3 -> a4) -> a3) -> a3 -> a4) -> ((a3 -> a4) -> a3) -> b2, (a5 -> a6 -> b3) -> ((((a5 -> a6) -> a5) -> a5 -> a6) -> (a5 -> a6) -> a5) -> (((a5 -> a6) -> a5) -> a5 -> a6) -> b3) 10:01:22 :t ap`fmap`ap`fmap`ap`fmap`ap 10:01:23 (a -> a1 -> b) -> ((((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> (a -> a1) -> a) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> b 10:05:05 @run length.show.typeOf $ ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap $ (undefined :: ()->()->()) 10:05:06 1044 10:05:10 @run length.show.typeOf $ ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap.ap $ (undefined :: ()->()->()) 10:05:11 1688 10:05:30 @run 1688/1044 - (1+sqrt 5)/2 10:05:32 -1.1757512020020844e-3 10:07:48 ic 10:08:28 does that mean you can get the type of the next one with a fibonacci substitution on the previous? 10:09:02 :t \f -> ap . f 10:09:03 Monad m => (a -> m (a1 -> b)) -> a -> m a1 -> m b 10:09:06 @where phi 10:09:06 I know nothing about phi. 10:09:24 Good way of deriving the golden ration IMO 10:10:13 hm the b only occurs once above 10:10:24 -!- olsner has joined. 10:10:44 :t \f -> ap . ($) . f 10:10:44 (a -> a2 -> a1 -> b) -> a -> (a2 -> a1) -> a2 -> b 10:12:20 indeed that's a fibonacci substitution 10:14:51 a2 becomes a2 -> a1, a1 becomes a2 10:17:59 :t ap.($) 10:18:00 (a1 -> a -> b) -> (a1 -> a) -> a1 -> b 10:18:15 :t ($) 10:18:16 (a -> b) -> a -> b 10:18:51 :t (ap .) 10:18:52 Monad m => (a -> m (a1 -> b)) -> a -> m a1 -> m b 10:19:31 olsner: i added the ($) to force the function instance 10:19:53 indeed 10:20:01 @run (\(a,b,c,d) -> printf "%s -> %s -> %s -> %s" a b c d) <$> unfoldr (\e@(a,b,c,d) -> Just (e, (a, printf "(%s -> %s)" b c, b, d))) ("(a -> b -> c)", "(a -> b)", "a", "c") :: [String] 10:20:03 ["(a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c","(a -> b -> c) -> ((a -> b) -> a) -> ... 10:20:55 :t \x y z -> x y z 10:20:57 (t1 -> t2 -> t) -> t1 -> t2 -> t 10:21:04 that's the base case, sort of 10:21:37 which is of course a refinement of ($)'s type 10:21:41 (and id) 10:22:23 @run (12+) . sum <$> unfoldr (\e@[a,b,c,d] -> Just (e, [a, 6+b+c, b, d])) $ length <$> ["(a -> b -> c)", "(a -> b)", "a", "c"] 10:22:25 No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Int]) 10:22:25 arising from a use of `GHC.Num.+' 10:22:25 Possible fix: 10:22:25 add an instance declaration for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Int]) 10:22:50 @run unfoldr (\e@[a,b,c,d] -> Just (12 + sum e, [a, 6+b+c, b, d])) $ length <$> ["(a -> b -> c)", "(a -> b)", "a", "c"] 10:22:51 [35,49,70,105,161,252,399,637,1022,1645,2653,4284,6923,11193,18102,29281,473... 10:24:06 @run typeOf (undefined:()->()->()) 10:24:07 Pattern syntax in expression context: undefined : () -> () -> () 10:24:13 @run typeOf (undefined::()->()->()) 10:24:15 () -> () -> () 10:24:26 @run typeOf ap.(undefined::()->()->()) 10:24:27 Couldn't match expected type `(() -> ()) -> c0' 10:24:27 with actual type `Data.Typeable.Internal.TypeRep' 10:24:35 @run typeOf $ ap.(undefined::()->()->()) 10:24:36 Couldn't match type `()' with `a0 -> b0' 10:24:37 Expected type: () -> () -> a0 -> b0 10:24:37 Actual type: () -> () -> () 10:24:43 sheesh 10:24:56 @run typeOf $ ap$(undefined::()->()->()) 10:24:57 (() -> ()) -> () -> () 10:25:03 Function instances. 10:26:51 ap f x y = f y (x y), which shows you get a fibonacci on the term level too 10:27:56 ? 10:27:57 @run (ap.ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) a b 10:27:59 Couldn't match expected type `((Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr 10:27:59 -> Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr) 10:27:59 -> Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr) 10:27:59 -> Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr -> Debug.Simp... 10:27:59 with actual type `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr'Couldn't match t... 10:28:02 oops 10:28:07 @run (ap.ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) g h 10:28:08 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable 10:28:08 Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr) 10:28:08 arising from a use of `Debug.SimpleReflect.Vars.g' 10:28:08 Possible fix: 10:28:09 add an instance declaration for 10:28:19 @run (ap.ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) g h :: Expr 10:28:20 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable 10:28:21 Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr) 10:28:21 arising from a use of `Debug.SimpleReflect.Vars.g' 10:28:21 Possible fix: 10:28:21 add an instance declaration for 10:28:28 :t (g,h) 10:28:29 (FromExpr t, FromExpr t1) => (t, t1) 10:28:55 :t ap.ap.ap 10:28:56 (a -> a1 -> b) -> (((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1) -> ((a -> a1) -> a) -> b 10:29:41 @run (ap.ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) 10:29:43 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable 10:29:45 oops 10:29:45 Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr) 10:29:47 arising from a use of `M723199156154611174123930.show_M7231991561546111741... 10:29:49 Possible fix: 10:29:51 add an instance declaration for 10:29:53 :t (ap.ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) 10:29:54 (((Expr -> Expr) -> Expr) -> Expr -> Expr) -> ((Expr -> Expr) -> Expr) -> Expr 10:30:17 @run g :: Expr 10:30:18 g 10:30:29 @run g (h :: Expr) :: Expr 10:30:32 g h 10:31:09 @run (ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) g h :: Expr 10:31:12 No instance for (Data.Typeable.Internal.Typeable 10:31:12 Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr) 10:31:12 arising from a use of `Debug.SimpleReflect.Vars.g' 10:31:12 Possible fix: 10:31:12 add an instance declaration for 10:31:18 @run ap (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) g h :: Expr 10:31:19 f h (g h) 10:31:28 ok that works... 10:31:54 :t (ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) g h :: Expr 10:31:54 No instance for (Typeable Expr) arising from a use of `g' 10:31:55 Possible fix: add an instance declaration for (Typeable Expr) 10:31:55 In the second argument of `ap . ap', namely `g' 10:32:12 something is going horribly wrong in the typechecking 10:32:25 :t f.($) 10:32:26 (Typeable a, Typeable b, FromExpr c) => (a -> b) -> c 10:33:07 :t f.($)$g.($) 10:33:08 Could not deduce (Typeable b0) arising from a use of `f' 10:33:08 from the context (FromExpr c) 10:33:08 bound by the inferred type of it :: FromExpr c => c at Top level 10:34:06 :t f.id 10:34:07 (Show b, FromExpr c) => b -> c 10:34:27 oh hm right 10:35:00 you cannot actually show FromExpr values that aren't fully applied 10:35:11 which some of the subexpressions will be 10:35:59 so the Expr trick doesn't work with higher-order functions 10:42:25 hmm. a challenge? :) 10:43:59 calamari 10:44:03 oops 10:44:17 * oerjan somehow pressed return instead of tab 10:45:24 *Main> f.id :: Expr -> Expr ---> \x -> f x 10:46:05 unfortunately, f :: Expr -> Expr -> Expr becomes \x -> \x -> f x x ;-) 10:46:06 :t (ap.ap.ap) ?f ?g ?h 10:46:06 (?f::a -> a1 -> b, ?g::((a -> a1) -> a) -> a -> a1, ?h::(a -> a1) -> a) => b 10:46:28 int-e: it's (Expr -> Expr) -> Expr which becomes the problem 10:46:51 (but perhaps showsPrec can be abused to make instance Show a => Show (Expr -> a) where show f = "\\x -> " ++ show (f x) use different variables) 10:47:00 oerjan: sure, there are limits. 10:47:47 I'm not going to pursue this seriously 10:47:48 int-e: also, my examples don't actually give lambdas. 10:49:31 show f = show (['x':show n|n<-[0..]], f); instance Show a => Show ([String], Expr -> a) where show (v:vs, f) = "\\" ++ v ++ " -> " ++ show (vs, f $ var v) 10:51:10 Possibly one would end up with horrible things like instance (Witness a, Show b) => Show (a -> b) where show f = let w = witness in "\\" ++ show w ++ " -> " ++ show (f witness), plus some hackery to get identifiers. 10:54:07 instance Witness (a -> b) => Show (a -> b) where show = witness 0 10:54:50 hm 10:55:11 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:56:03 mroman: shall i ban you for not noticing that everyone else is using @run twh 10:57:24 > "no" 10:57:24 "no" : String 10:57:24 "no" 10:58:35 i am thinking about making "indecision" a disadvantage for my rogue, but i'm not really sure if i want to 10:58:57 `addquote i am thinking about making "indecision" a disadvantage for my rogue, but i'm not really sure if i want to 10:58:59 1182) i am thinking about making "indecision" a disadvantage for my rogue, but i'm not really sure if i want to 10:59:06 i'm pretty sure i was baited. 10:59:33 not that much 11:00:11 that situation actually stands 11:00:39 Right ... "I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure." 11:00:48 (I wonder who came up with this.) 11:00:49 :D 11:01:32 does anybody has good ideas for quirks which donkt hurt that much? 11:01:39 don't 11:02:00 It *is* a good weakness. "There is a cop. Should I run or hide? In the meantime I can just stand here and look suspicious." 11:02:07 i go with the typo and say "were-donkey" 11:05:24 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:05:44 int-e: well, it may be *too* good 11:06:17 only if you want to survive 11:06:23 but how can you be sure about that? 11:07:14 as a player i'd like my character to be alive most of the time 11:08:10 but such a character could be lots of fun ... as long as it lasts. 11:08:30 But I do understand your concerns. 11:16:49 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 11:16:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:21:42 *Main Control.Monad> (ap.ap.ap) (f::Expr->Expr->Expr) 11:21:43 \abb -> \aa -> f aa abb 11:23:02 oerjan: http://sprunge.us/iMUg?haskell (not perfect, but now it stops being fun) 11:25:44 (actually I have no clue what I did there, semantically) 11:27:36 best I can tell the witnesses are now Skolem functions with all their arguments implicit. Hah. 11:27:54 Clearly that's very useful. 11:28:14 (Especially because their names clash, too.) 11:30:16 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:37:31 -!- fcrawl has joined. 11:38:13 -!- boily has joined. 11:39:04 good international boardgaming day morning! 11:41:40 Hey 11:47:32 Tanelle! 11:48:22 I need to move my computer 11:48:29 Having it here is giving me a sore back 11:54:42 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:56:49 3SUM purportedly in o(n^2): http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.0799 12:05:47 int-e: wtf 12:11:32 Jafet: interesting. 12:13:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:48:38 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:56:40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2xYjiL8yyE 12:56:43 -!- ter2 has joined. 12:56:46 fuck's sake hart, get your shit together 13:02:13 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:02:28 -!- ter2 has joined. 13:05:11 that video was introductionarily interesting, lightly brushing against the Uncountability of the Reals. 13:05:29 no, it's just wrong 13:06:07 sam hughes wrote a better explanation: http://qntm.org/trollpi 13:06:45 IT'S NOT WROOOOONG! 13:06:48 but all it comes down to is that when you take the limit of a sequence of curves that limit doesn't have to share any properties with the curves in the sequence 13:08:54 Phantom_Hoover, Vi Hart is pop maths. It's for viewerships, not correctness 13:09:25 Right but it's not incorrect in a 'lies-to-children' sense, it's incorrect in the sense that it just leads viewers down the garden path. 13:10:44 and to the barn fell of doom 13:12:20 What really annoys me about Vi Hart is her video about Flexagons came out a day after I decided to make some 13:13:35 :( 13:13:54 the bastard! 13:14:18 * oerjan now imagines gingerbread flexagons. and probably should eat. 13:14:24 Now I want to make a flexagon 13:15:15 Probably not out of gingerbread 13:17:04 reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubik%27s_Magic hmm 13:18:01 oerjan: can one make flexible gingerbread? 13:19:07 hoily! 13:19:25 quinthellopia! 13:19:46 oerjan: i c wut you did thar 13:20:05 *munch* what? 13:20:24 Taneb: what annoys me about vihart is that my friends got a private concert from her on joco cruise crazy 1 and i couldn't go :( 13:20:28 quintopia: oh the barn fell? 13:21:51 boily: i dunno do i look like a baker 13:22:59 oerjan: you are oerjan. maybe you are a baker. maybe not. hth. 13:24:38 okay 13:33:36 you like like a charlie to me 13:33:41 charlie fox 13:33:45 trot 13:40:36 .-- - ..-. ..--.. 13:41:12 nooooooooooo not the morse code .-. 13:42:54 the Morse Code is the Future! 13:43:07 .--.-..--..-.--.-..-.--..--.-..- 13:43:10 the future is the past 13:43:29 is morse code prefix-free? 13:43:53 or whatever the word is 13:43:58 no. 13:44:21 well thats dumb 13:44:35 it uses separating pauses 13:44:50 because, it's like designed to be decoded by humans. 13:44:54 so three symbols 13:45:13 humans could decipher a pauseless stream with practice! 13:45:16 and transmit it too! 13:45:29 OKAY 13:48:10 without humans in the way, communication would be much easier. 13:48:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:55:36 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:01:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:04:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BOARDGAMING CHICKEN!). 14:11:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:15:17 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhi. 14:19:02 Is it normal for a Haskell question to go unanswered on SO this long? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22851565/getting-input-into-netwire-programs 14:20:12 -!- shikhi has changed nick to shikhin. 14:26:00 well it's not about a very widely used library afaik 14:28:10 -!- Lola has joined. 14:29:12 -!- applybot has quit (Quit: sorry!). 14:30:02 Hoooola 14:30:38 `bienvenido Lola 14:30:39 Lola: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 14:32:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:33:39 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:36:28 -!- ter2 has changed nick to tertu. 14:36:39 -!- tertu has changed nick to ter2. 14:36:55 -!- Lola has left. 14:41:25 oerjan: don't bother welcoming ~canaima 14:41:38 all the spanish people of the past N months are just one person. 14:41:44 e does seem familiar 14:41:48 in fact we should just set a ban or something. it's silly. 14:42:25 Ban all the users 14:49:17 -!- conehead has joined. 14:49:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Omelette du fromage). 15:03:32 -!- applybot has joined. 15:04:39 -!- yorick has joined. 15:11:44 idris-ircslave: let x = 1 :: x in x 15:11:45 (input):1:14:When elaborating argument val to constructor Delay: 15:11:45 No such variable x 15:17:24 -!- tromp has joined. 15:25:57 -!- int-e has changed nick to notregistered. 15:26:10 -!- notregistered has changed nick to int-e. 15:28:00 -!- tertu3 has joined. 15:28:13 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:31:37 -!- ^v has joined. 15:31:46 `pastelogs test 15:31:48 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 2: cd: /var/irclogs/_esoteric: No such file or directory \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.22298 15:31:55 how'd this break!! 15:32:33 No such file or directory 15:32:36 obviously 15:33:13 HackEgo just doesn't keep have logs anymore? 15:33:15 afaik, hackego moved and the logs are now stored elsewhere 15:33:39 While previously they were on the same machine. But I don't know for sure. 15:43:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:12:20 -!- fcrawl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:16:00 That is my impression, too. 16:16:07 Oh, I'm a bit late. 16:17:01 kmc: Just so you know, I have made the opcode generator into an opcode quiz, as per your suggestion. (Just need to collect data for a couple more architectures before making it public.) 16:18:40 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:23:41 Call it the Label Ersatz Generator; name the quiz "ARM or LEG?" Add some Thumb to throw people off. 16:25:59 (People who pass are True Opcode Experts.) 16:26:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:27:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 16:34:13 "incorrect; opcode HW_LD/PAWQVL is real" man, Alpha is hard. 16:35:21 link? 16:35:43 It's not in the web yet. I only have x86 and Alpha in it. 16:36:34 Also it's missing "share your score in Facebook/Google+/Twitter" buttons, which were something I was thinking of "ironically" adding. 16:36:38 (I'm trying to figure out where the ARM opcodes are in this GNU binutils GDB checkout.) 16:39:23 They seem to be somewhat complicatedly in it, due to having some structure programmatically constructed. 16:46:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:05:24 Program a quiz using Internet Quiz Engine. It work better, and is faster, too. 17:06:32 And simpler. 17:07:09 Yet, it includes a few extra commands for feature such as arithmetics and a few others. 17:07:37 fizzie: did I ever show you http://ugcs.net/~keegan/complexity.html 17:11:25 I don't think I saw that. 17:11:44 And the Internet Quiz Engine will probably not be able to generate fake opcodes from n-gram models, will it? 17:13:08 fizzie: That feature is not included yet, although you can pregenerate the data. Currently, there is not the program to allow manipulation of Internet Quiz Engine files using SQL, sorry. 17:14:21 (But, it is currently possible to manipulate them using AWK, so you can use that.) 17:18:31 Well, I've already written this thing. 17:19:59 Currently IQE has no features for any kind of string manipulation at all, actually; only arithmetics and conditions are supported (although, there is timer support, multiple selection support, percentages, and some other things like that). There are no kinds of backward flow control at all, so loops are impossible. 17:23:09 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:35:43 kmc: Here, you can have a preliminary-ish look at http://zem.fi/2014-04-05-opquiz -- though I'm going to have to go to do some sauna things real soon. 17:37:49 (Wonder if I should really add those score-share buttons.) 17:45:59 -!- bekirov has joined. 18:02:12 It is not working OK. 18:09:12 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:09:35 hmm, github. why don't forks have their own issue trackers, and why can't I merge an upstream pull request to my own fork using their frontend? 18:11:19 I have looked at (but not used) the Fossil system, which is said to be simpler than Git. Fossil is a SQL-based system, implemented as a single C program. I do not know if it can solve those problem or not. 18:14:53 -!- ^v has joined. 18:15:53 No, because I have no issues with git itself. 18:17:39 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 18:18:39 You could move it to a system other than Github, even if it is still git-based system, though. 18:22:47 -!- S1 has joined. 18:27:38 -!- olsner has joined. 18:34:42 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:43:21 -!- bekirov has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:32 kmc: Re the complexity class game, I would've wanted to have similar short descriptions of the (real) instructions, but those would've been less simple to extract. (And I guess also the entire list would be much larger.) 19:26:29 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:27:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:30:38 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 19:30:55 -!- ^v has joined. 19:34:12 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:54:04 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: requested). 19:54:15 oops. 19:56:26 -!- fungot has quit (Quit: requested). 19:56:32 oops. 19:57:19 "j/k lol" 19:57:26 -!- fungot has joined. 19:58:22 -!- lambdabot has joined. 19:58:57 The request was supposed to go to my test instance of the bot :-/ Oh well. It took its time (as usual) but it made it back. 20:05:26 `danddreclist 50 20:05:26 danddreclist 50: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 20:10:43 How can I tell gdb which module to debug by default? I have two modules loaded, and the one I want to debug isn't the main program. 20:18:43 -!- evalj has joined. 20:19:21 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:20:31 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 20:50:42 http://cybermap.kaspersky.com/ that looks ridiculously like in a movie 21:01:11 * Sgeo goes to listen to all the music here: http://jessicadickinsongoodman.com/2008/01/18/pachebels-rant-dissected/ 21:02:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:06:42 And some of those videos don't exist :( 21:09:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 21:16:23 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:33 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:56:05 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:59:35 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 21:59:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:10:41 -!- ejls has joined. 22:20:05 <^v> sooo 22:20:12 <^v> i made bottles of beer in fishstacks 22:21:15 <^v> its 142K chars 22:21:40 <^v> who wants it? 22:21:50 me 22:22:19 <^v> k 22:23:17 <^v> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55181333/bottles.fishstacks 22:26:57 Why are haddocks not built for this? https://hackage.haskell.org/package/python-pickle-0.2.0 22:28:01 <^v> D: me no likey python 22:29:21 -!- ^v has changed nick to PixelTerst. 22:31:13 I am still not quite sure what Object-Oriented programming actually is 22:31:52 i dunno, if memory addresses are objects, arent all programs object oriented 22:32:44 no. that's really dumb. 22:32:53 ^ 22:35:03 -!- PixelTerst has changed nick to ^v. 22:39:37 On the other hand, I have biscuits 22:40:22 k I'm outa here 22:40:24 -!- S1 has left. 22:40:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:42:10 On the first hand, do you have cheese? 22:42:29 No 22:42:45 I am one of those weird people who isolates biscuit and cracker consumption 22:44:03 <^v> i am one of those weird people who makes programs in languages without an official interpreter 22:44:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:44:18 <^v> i made my own fishstacks inturpreter 22:44:28 <^v> but im not giving it to you, because lazyness 22:44:51 did you know that if you don't put things on the wiki, they don't exist hth 22:44:57 ^v, have you seen Eodermdrome? 22:45:18 <^v> oerjan, ohey you are the person who edited fishstacks after me 22:45:23 <^v> please dont slap me 22:45:26 <^v> my first edit 22:45:34 that's ok 22:46:01 <^v> Taneb, i remember it now ;-; 22:46:34 i'm one of those weird people who makes programs in Eodermdrome. 22:47:09 still waiting for someone to implement it so i can test the program. 22:47:24 (too lazy to code up actual graph algorithms) 22:47:43 BUT I PUT THE PROGRAM ON THE WIKI HTH 22:48:15 <^v> :P 22:53:25 -!- conehead has joined. 22:55:50 -!- Zom-B has quit. 23:09:00 -!- tertu3 has joined. 23:41:58 <^v> Well then 23:42:07 <^v> the barely page is full of shit 23:42:25 <^v> h adds 71 not 47 23:45:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 23:49:31 <^v> proof: http://puu.sh/7XtPL.png 23:49:41 <^v> ]xjjjjjhhhhxjhhhhhhhhjjjhh~ 23:49:44 <^v> is what i entered 23:50:35 <^v> OH 23:50:45 <^v> its because some dumbass misread the assembly source 23:50:50 <^v> 0x47 is 71 23:50:57 <^v> fucking.. dumbass 23:52:20 stop throwing insults 23:52:50 <^v> ok 23:52:53 <^v> i am just mad 23:54:53 that's no reason to take it out on the intelligence of someone you don't even know who made a simple mistake 23:55:04 after all, it was not that long ago you misread how Deadfish works... 23:55:37 <^v> D: 23:57:06 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-04-06: 00:10:33 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:16:00 <^v> woooooooooooooooooooooooooooot http://puu.sh/7Xvui.png 00:16:31 <^v> ]xhhhhooooooooohhhhhhxooooooooxooooooxjjjxhoooohhhxhohhhhhhhxhhhhjjjhhhxhhhhooooooooohhhhhhxjjjxxjjjjjjjxjhhhhxjhhhhhhhhjjjhh~ 00:16:42 <^v> will add to wiki, but gtg soon 00:25:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:25:45 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 00:28:03 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:59:05 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 01:27:05 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:27:16 -!- ^v has joined. 01:33:03 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 02:09:01 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:17:01 seems like every time i turn around my iptables configuration has been deleted. :( 02:23:36 sounds like a really boring poltergeist 02:32:23 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:41:36 might be the upgrade installer. dunno. making an extra copy of the rules in case it happens again 02:45:04 -!- ter2 has joined. 02:49:03 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:58:51 fizzie: you should add the snarxiv score indicators 02:59:16 (I think 30% was "9th year grad student") 03:00:00 Also, this is genuinely harder than snarxiv 03:00:01 Do you know how to recognize the music of a record by observing the grooves? 03:01:44 In other news, I'm sad CMONFLICTOR isn't a real opcode 03:07:09 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:13:23 -!- conehead has joined. 03:14:49 zzo38: that's essentially how CDs work. I'm surre one could readily build an optical needle 03:15:22 and...it's already been done 03:15:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable 03:15:57 that's so zeerust a concept i can't handle it 03:16:06 I read a book that someone could recognize a lot of orchestral music on a record, by only observing the grooves, not using any special equipment. However, only post Mozart music, but still that is a lot of possibilities 03:16:44 i imagine there are repetitive patterns, especially if you're listening to some form that's really regimented 03:17:51 I would certainly believe that it might be possible. 03:18:54 probably amplitude variation over time would be enough. i don't doubt there are many more who can differentiate pieces looking at the waveform 03:19:09 Yes, maybe it is. 03:19:18 I don't know exactly, since I don't know how to do it myself. 03:20:47 It says here: "Arthur Lintgen ... apparently possesses the remarkable ability to identify the music on a phonographic record without referring to its label ... by looking at the grooves on the surface of the disc ... the music must be classical, orchestral, and post-Mozart ... this leaves a body of recorded music that runs into thousands of records." 03:21:07 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:22:28 James Randi was commissioned to test it. He figured it out, even multiple recordings of the same music, and an extra cut on the disc, and others. However, two of them were something different: rock music, and a lecture. He called the rock music "gibberish" and the lecture "a vocal solo of some kind". I suppose this is to be expected if you don't understand that kind of "music"... 03:22:52 It is clear to me that this is nothing "paranormal". 03:23:44 well, seeing as how nothing people actually can do can be called "paranormal"... 03:26:03 So it would seem. 03:27:47 There are other reports of things, much of which are exposed as hoaxes, frauds, or something else, but some which don't know such thing quite yet, and which would seem to be "paranormal". I wasn't there, so I don't know if these reports are just made up, but you cannot disregard things out of hand. Once people thought, stones cannot come from the sky, but now they figured it out. So, you cannot just ignore something with no good reason. 03:28:27 "The prototype revealed an interesting flaw of laser turntables: they are so accurate that they play every particle of dirt and dust on the record, rather than pushing them aside as a conventional stylus would." 03:28:38 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but, doesn't mean it can ignore everything 03:28:49 Jafet: Interesting idea. 03:29:01 Jafet: but all SERIOUS audiophiles store and play their records in an industrial clean room, so it's no big issue 03:29:03 I didn't know, but yes of course if it a laser, clearly that is how it works! 03:29:47 Would be fun to use a record of 4'33" 03:30:09 I don't think industrial clean rooms tend to have good acoustic qualities 03:30:31 why not? theoretically you can design your clean room any way you want to 03:30:32 it's not musicians' fault that semiconductor manufacturer have no taste. 03:44:34 Then, you need to design, the musical clean room. 03:44:54 i already did. 03:46:02 emptying spit valves is gonna suck, i can already tell 03:47:07 sorry, no wind or brass instruments allowed...you can't play them with a clean suit on 04:12:41 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:15:52 -!- ^v has joined. 04:46:26 -!- tertu3 has joined. 04:49:46 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:20:45 -!- ter2 has joined. 05:21:03 -!- tertu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:25:00 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:18:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:19:17 -!- tromp has joined. 06:23:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:35:10 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:39:26 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:51:18 Play non-brass music, then. 06:51:28 (If you like non-brass music) 07:11:49 -!- augur has joined. 07:23:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:09:09 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:10:11 -!- ter2 has joined. 08:20:53 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:21:07 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 08:21:07 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 08:21:07 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 08:21:07 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 08:27:50 Jafet: I was thinking that there should have been some sort of a complicated scoring mechanism with multipliers and all that. 08:42:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:06:42 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 09:09:21 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:20:09 "I heard it through the grapefruit / not much longer would you be mine. / Oh I heard it through the grapefruit, / Oh and I'm just about to lose my mind." 09:20:39 (Ate a grapefruit for breakfast.) 09:23:24 quintopia: Maybe some kind of a bellows-driven trombone. 09:23:43 Vorpal: http://zem.fi/2014-04-05-opquiz 09:24:47 fizzie: your interpretation makes the losing mind part so much clearer. 09:26:08 Good point. 09:38:48 hi 09:39:09 lo 09:39:13 fizzie, nice photos again 09:39:32 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:39:33 fizzie, I like the "Pixels most distant from the mean, smoothed." a lot 09:40:27 fizzie, also nice opcode quiz 09:41:29 fizzie, really? There are real opcodes with underscore in them? 09:41:59 At least as accepted by NASM. 09:42:03 huh 09:42:12 Well so far I have 19/23 correct 09:42:16 Not too bad I think 09:42:37 VFNMADD213SS is real? Really? 09:42:46 There should be like a link to what each real one does 09:43:32 fizzie, also, no ARM? 09:43:37 Yes, I would've liked that, but it would've been hard to collect, since they're all spread out. 09:44:04 And ARM opcodes were in an overly complicated from in the Binutils sources, all kind of custom %x expandables. 09:44:11 fizzie, ARM and AVR are probably the only other two I have a chance of 09:44:17 of managing* 09:45:10 Yeah, about 80% success rate is what I manage on x86 09:45:54 The underscores are at least official Intel nomenclature, as per the Intel Architecture Instruction Set Extensions Programming Reference. 09:47:12 Hm 09:47:19 Yeah x86 is crazy 09:47:37 I think the 80% correct was a fluke, now it seems to stay around 70% 09:48:03 AVR I think I could manage, mostly because it is such a simple instruction set 09:48:35 And VFNMADD213SS is "Fused Negative Multiply-Add of Sclaar Single-Precision Floating-Point Values"; VFNMADD213SS xmm0, xmm1, xmm2 does x0 = x2 - x0 * x1 where xN is the single-precision float in the low 32 bits of xmmN. 09:48:52 The fuck intel! 09:49:21 (The numbers -- 132, 213 and 231 are all valid -- denote the way those three operands go.) 09:49:38 Hm 09:50:03 There's some kind of logic in there, though I can't quite decode it immediately. 09:50:20 SS is probably scalar single or something like that 09:50:36 The opcode for VFNMADD213SS is VEX.DDS.LIG.128.66.0F38.W0 AD /r. 09:51:04 The hell? Is this an alias for a lot of prefixes basically? 09:51:34 It's some way of denoting all the parts of the VEX prefix, yes. 09:52:05 Which flag is support for this sort of stuff in /proc/cpuinfo? 09:52:10 "VEX.[NDS/NDD/DS].[128,256,L0,L1,LIG].[66,F2,F3].0F/0F3A/0F38.[W0,W1,WIG] opcode [/r]" is the full format. 09:52:40 "CPUID Feature Flag" column lists "FMA" in the manual. 09:52:55 I mean the VEX stuff in general 09:53:21 flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx lahf_lm ida arat epb xsave 09:53:21 opt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid 09:53:37 Heh, that is a lot, also that is "xsaveopt" as a single entry in the line-break 09:53:38 "avx", probably. 09:53:45 That's what introduced the VEX prefix, AIUI. 09:53:58 Well it is there I guess 09:54:02 (Or AVX512F if you want to use the "VFMADD132SS xmm0 {k1}{z}, xmm1, xmm2/m32{er}" form.) 09:54:17 It's a Sandy Bridge 09:54:39 "flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 fma cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx ... 09:54:45 ... f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm ida arat xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 hle avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid rtm" 09:55:11 Ivy Bridge? 09:55:17 Given that it has more stuff 09:55:28 Haswell, even. 09:55:51 ("avx2" is a tipoff, technically.) 09:56:20 "flags: vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc up rep_good nopl pni monitor ssse3 lahf_lm" 09:56:22 Ah 09:56:25 What is ssse3 09:56:42 Jafet: It's what came in-between SSE3 and SSE4. 09:56:49 (Supplemental Streaming SIMD Extensions 3.) 09:57:00 Jafet, is that your entire flags? Fairly old I guess? 09:57:16 Though I think I can beat you, even if it is a bit of cheating: 09:57:18 Features: swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java tls 09:57:22 (That is a RPi) 09:57:25 That's under VT-x 09:57:29 Ah 09:57:54 flags: fpu de tsc msr pae cx8 sep cmov pat clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht syscall lm constant_tsc up rep_good nopl pni ssse3 cx16 movbe hypervisor lahf_lm dtherm 09:58:00 (Intel Atom 230, not virtualized.) 09:58:37 What is dtherm? 09:59:16 No idea. Could be something Atom-specific, I guess. 09:59:35 Oh, no, it's also in these bigger flag lists. 10:00:13 Yeah they aren't sorted, so it is kind of hard to find 10:00:27 I guess they are sorted somewhat chronologically. 10:00:45 Btw, I have an old P3 that I could boot to check the flags, but I'm not sure I care, the power isn't connected and so on 10:00:52 CPUID bit order, presumably. 10:01:22 Which would be reasonably chronological 10:01:37 This system does not have a "flags" entry in cpuinfo at all, does that count as a list of length 0? 10:02:40 fizzie, RPi? I think we can use the "Features" then 10:02:43 like I did above 10:02:53 There's no "Features" either. 10:02:57 What architecture? 10:02:59 "system type: 96368MVWG" "cpu model: BCM6368 V3.1" 10:03:04 MIPS? 10:03:05 Yes. 10:03:11 Hm 10:03:18 Oh, there's "ASEs implemented:" but it's empty. 10:03:22 And I don't know what an "ASE" is. 10:03:31 But it sounds like a list of some kind of extensions. 10:05:00 dtherm is apparently the "Digital Thermal Sensor Capability" bit (CPUID function 06h, bit EAX[1]); as far as I can tell, it's what the coretemp thing reads. 10:05:50 Ah 10:07:17 "Features: swp half fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3" this phone has a list one element shorter than the RPi. 10:07:55 (Also somewhat different; no thumb, and noen + vfpv3 in place of java + tls.) 10:08:21 I'm pretty sure it can run Thumb code, so I don't know why there's no Thumb flag. Maybe it's a kernel thing. 10:09:13 "bogomips: 4548.57" 10:09:21 Best unit ever. 10:09:43 398.33 BogoMIPS on the MIPS box. 10:09:55 Hah 10:10:04 BogoMIPS: 2.00 10:10:08 that is the RPi 10:10:31 bogomips: 6621.52 is my desktop 10:10:37 Sounds like a bogus result on the RPi. 10:10:42 Quite so 10:10:44 what the hell are bogomips 10:11:05 I have 249.96 on the phone, 1993.93 on this Android tablet and 6799.32 on the desktop. 10:11:16 Is that, like, more bogus than bogomips 10:11:20 myname, number of NOPs per second as measured early during boot by the kernel to calibrate some internal delay loop iirc 10:11:35 Not sure why it is 2 on the RPi though, that seems wrong 10:11:51 i have to check that :D 10:12:05 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BogoMips 10:12:28 I seem to recall I had some system where the BogoMIPS number changed according to cpufreq scaling. Doesn't seem to happen on this desktop, though. 10:13:41 fizzie, constant_tsc probably counteracts it (the feature that results in that flag that is) 10:13:53 Pretty sure it scaled back on older computers yes 10:26:36 -!- yorick has joined. 10:26:45 "The reasons (there are two) it is printed during boot-up is that a) it is slightly useful for debugging and for checking that the computers caches and turbo button work, and b) Linus loves to chuckle when he sees confused people on the news." 10:27:46 Good old turbo button. 10:28:14 Yeah 10:28:37 Is that the button that made your CPU slower 10:28:47 Quite often, yes. 10:29:42 Though I vaguely recall one system that was wired to be faster (16 MHz vs. 8 MHz) with the button pressed. 10:30:44 I guess BogoMIPS is a bit like glxgears then, useless except to tell that your system isn't completely out of whack 10:33:29 "158 frames in 5.0 seconds = 31.595 FPS" 10:33:36 int-e, elliott could you make lambdabot join #cs-york for a bit? 10:33:48 We should really have GPU virtualization by now. 10:34:13 I think Nvidia did have some stuff towards that direction? 10:34:22 For their computing-oriented hardware, anyway. 10:34:44 @join #cs-york 10:34:45 Jafet, we should, but most people who virtualize don't game 10:34:51 At least on the same machine 10:34:55 int-e, thanks 10:34:58 Two different markets 10:36:18 i recall glogbot accepts channel invites, how bad would it be to do the same for lambdabot 10:37:10 Nvidia Grid is fairly new, I think 10:37:30 Also, they loves segmentation 10:38:05 oerjan: I don't know. Are there honeypot channels here where joining gets you killed? ;-) 10:38:08 (i assume the main worry would be if lambdabot gets too overworked) 10:38:15 * int-e is too paranoid for that. 10:38:31 int-e: well yes but you have to be _on_ them to invite, no? 10:38:48 i'm talking about the technical invite which only a channel op can do, afaiu 10:38:49 probably 10:41:31 oerjan: I don't know. Are there honeypot channels here where joining gets you killed? ;-) <-- think so yes 10:42:12 oerjan, I think you only need to be op of +m is set? 10:42:28 Vorpal: oh 10:42:43 oerjan, if you /part, we can test I guess 10:42:58 -!- fungot has left. 10:43:07 [13:43:54] -!- #esoteric You're not a channel operator 10:43:10 Hm okay 10:43:13 (When trying to invite fungot.) 10:43:16 * oerjan #esoteric :is already on channel 10:43:19 -!- fungot has joined. 10:43:26 I guess the checks happen in a weird order 10:43:30 i was about to part when i saw fungot do it 10:43:30 oerjan: ( though its experimental and instrumenting) ' it) 10:43:37 from that kernel onward the BogoMips rating for then current Pentium CPUs was twice that of the rating before the change. The changed BogoMips outcome had no effect on real processor performance. 10:43:41 hahahaha 10:44:58 I imagine the patch name was "improve bogosity of bogomips" 10:46:30 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CA5MLCS Enterprise ready GPU virtualization. At least they're cheaper than some Xeons. 10:47:05 Jafet, are those Telsa series with no actual display connectors? 10:47:08 Or real GPUs? 10:47:30 Telsa. Cute. 10:47:43 So useless for non-HPC then, right 10:47:46 (For a moment I was wondering whether that was the real name.) 10:48:42 Tesla? Or what 10:48:44 Honestly, there are too many codenames for all the GPUs and CPUs, who's expected to track them? 10:49:04 Vorpal: Something discovered recently: if you have a channel with modes +if (invite-only, forward on; the latter needs the former), and the person trying to join the channel is either banned or already on the target channel of the +f, the error message given is the "cannot join, invite-only" one instead. 10:49:33 We have some Tesla cards in the local computing cluster of the university. 10:49:40 int-e, Tesla is a product line. Like i5 and i7 or GeForce and Quadro 10:50:03 Vorpal: no display connectors, but they are intended for graphics 10:50:23 Jafet, I thought Tesla were intended for GPGPU? 10:50:34 Also, a better example is Celeron 10:50:39 "10 compute nodes gpu[001-011] are HP SL390s G7 for gpu computing. Same configuration as above but they are 2U high and have 2x Tesla 2090 card each." 10:50:40 Oh? 10:50:42 I think some new CPUs are still Celerons. 10:50:57 Really? I thought i3 replaced that segment 10:51:17 Vorpal: as I said, who's supposed to keep track. I've heard of "Tesla" and not of "Telsa" but took a moment to make the connection, because there was nothing obviously wrong with the latter name. 10:51:27 No, i3 is the lowest rung of the high-end Core series. 10:51:40 int-e, oh I didn't even notice my typo 10:51:45 Intel makes plenty of smaller CPUs. 10:51:56 int-e, not even when you repeated it 10:52:10 I didn't notice the typo either, and the conversation was all manner of confusing. 10:52:16 fizzie, same 10:52:22 Vorpal: the human brain is a marvellous thing ;-) 10:53:14 bbl 10:54:08 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeron I think every Intel generation since P6 is represented here 10:55:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:56:45 * int-e notes with joy that KICK and INVITE have their operands swapped. 10:56:49 (Sometimes "smaller" just means "we turned half the cache off") 10:57:19 err, parameters to stick to the RFC wording. 10:58:14 So implementing this is not too hard (at most 5 lines of code), I just wonder whether I want to have that feature. 10:58:37 POWER TO THE PEOPLE 10:58:49 this is the internet 10:58:51 Or non-people, as the case may be 10:58:55 I don't trust people ;-) 10:59:06 Do you trust fungot 10:59:06 Jafet: its pretty easy to use. that always does the right if 90 is straight down then it should 10:59:19 fungot has not done me any harm yet 10:59:19 int-e: no niinku pl niinku fnord niinku fnord fnord fnord 10:59:26 ^style 10:59:26 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 10:59:53 fungot never talks to me like that. 10:59:53 Jafet: heh. ( fnord tsh) ( seems ( ( prefix notation) confusing)) to change it to create a whole breed of new fnord languages. 10:59:56 Ah, it's the recursive style. 11:00:16 No, that would be "fungot". 11:00:16 fizzie: dpkg -i is ok to count your own artificial language when asked how many languages the fnord speak 11:00:19 ^style irc 11:00:19 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 11:00:34 Which is still dominated by the f word. 11:00:34 The small bits of Finnish come from ircnet/#douglasadams, where there occasionally was a bit of it. 11:01:15 No statements of the f are part of the "irc" style, since the model was trained before the bot existed. 11:01:38 Oh, you meant the other f word. 11:01:42 Yes, there's that mapping. 11:02:39 `addquote fungot has not done me any harm yet int-e: no niinku pl niinku fnord niinku fnord fnord fnord 11:02:39 Jafet: fnord it. :p it could be managed with the right hand 11:02:40 1183) fungot has not done me any harm yet int-e: no niinku pl niinku fnord niinku fnord fnord fnord 11:03:10 so what does "niinku" mean? 11:03:58 Oh it's just a filler, like, that. 11:04:00 It's a contraction of "niin kuin", which is approximately something like "as if". 11:04:04 Or "like". 11:04:18 The original source of the "niinku" line seems to be a DRUGZ reference. :/ 11:05:18 (Most of the "fnords" were different Finnish nicknames for hashish.) 11:09:54 ^style drugs 11:09:55 Not found. 11:11:03 a couple of those are mysterious to me. Agora, for example. 11:11:27 ^style sms 11:11:27 Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) 11:11:37 fungot, is that as bad as I imagine it would be? 11:11:37 int-e: can i use short form to. thanks 11:11:48 fungot, please don't 11:11:48 int-e: only one place can sit to bishan, take the barcap... all thebest!! :) its time bah, cause i was thinking of coming to soc. btw how to go downfron bugis. u lookfor place 11:12:05 ^style irc 11:12:05 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 11:12:13 could be worse. 11:12:27 That was a reasonably tame example of the SMS style. 11:12:32 It's p. bad occasionally. 11:13:01 worse than a f n o r d loop? 11:13:31 Matter of taste, I guess. I don't think it has those at all. 11:13:39 But more of that "u lookfor" kind of stuff. 11:14:03 http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commentary/sony-demands-removal-of-open-source-indie-short-sintel-from-youtube-98182.html 11:22:30 Wow, a corporate video host stops hosting a video. Much censor. 11:22:43 back 11:23:16 I guess Sintel is sort-of "famous" in that it was one of the first entirely open-source-rendered CGI videos 11:23:26 it's mostly a tech demo 11:23:44 * int-e notes with joy that KICK and INVITE have their operands swapped. <-- Yes, there are more cases like that in IRC iirc. I wrote an IRC bot once and I noticed quite a lot of strange things 11:24:50 Some other post said Sony added Sintel to their "4k demo reel" kind of thing, and speculated that led to the (presumably automatic) takedown request. 11:25:38 fizzie, fnord was basically unique words right? 11:25:43 Right. 11:26:13 For the old models; the new ones, trained with VariKN, mostly have just discarded them, I think. 11:26:54 Hm 11:27:02 fizzie, what did you use the train the new models? 11:28:22 Uh, VariKN. 11:28:45 This computer combined with Debian Stable has a really interesting bug btw. If I pause playback in vlc, sound will stop working on resume, I have to do a jump in the video/audio stream to reset it. Either backwards or forward, doesn't matter how long either. 11:28:58 fizzie, err I meant the old ones 11:29:31 Oh. It doesn't have a name, it was just a custom piece of C++ (of all things) doing a fixed-length unpruned N-gram. 11:30:20 (Rather crummy code, too.) 11:31:06 Well it is C++, good look not being crummy 11:33:34 http://sprunge.us/SLKb?c++ I guess it's not that bad, but it's not that good either. 11:34:02 Also what's really silly is that the only code to test a generated model was in the same program, so I needed to rebuild the whole thing to generate sample sentences. 11:34:03 That is interesting indentation 11:34:11 Or is that sprunge messing up tabs? 11:34:27 Yeah seems like it 11:35:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:38:06 It uses the time-tested approach of "just throw strings" to C++ exceptions. 11:38:22 (Or, rather, "just throw string literals".) 11:38:54 Pretty sure that is not considered good practice 11:39:10 it's better than throwing malloc'ed strings 11:39:12 That is, secretly, what most C++ exceptions are made of 11:39:25 (although even that is better than a mix of throwing malloc'ed strings and string literals) 11:39:48 On the other hand I have never been a fan of exceptions in general. There is often a better solution 11:39:49 Throwing malloc'd strings is horrible. You should be using new. 11:40:14 Vorpal: they are great for cross-function control flow 11:40:19 Jafet: I was trying to think of the most horrible sort of exception I could off the top of my head 11:40:48 although I have a Java program that throws integers (specifically speaking, a class deriving from Exception with only one int member of its own) 11:40:52 because it was translated from C 11:41:13 I have a factoring program that throws any factors discovered 11:41:18 Jafet, How? 11:41:35 Generally I prefer co-routines for that 11:41:45 (Assuming the language allows that of course) 11:41:54 (Also assuming you mean the same thing as I do) 11:42:06 can be simulated pretty easily, even in c 11:42:19 I know, but not elegantly really 11:42:43 yeah, that or non-re-entrant 11:42:47 The program has several layers of function calls, which makes simulating coroutines unpleasant. 11:43:03 nortti, also thread safety 11:43:25 I could use a lambda object as a continuation, but it gets annoying to pass it around. 11:50:19 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:52:34 `run allquotes | tail -1 11:52:34 1183) fungot has not done me any harm yet int-e: no niinku pl niinku fnord niinku fnord fnord fnord 11:52:54 `run sed -i '1183s/ No output. 11:52:59 `run allquotes | tail -1 11:52:59 1183) fungot has not done me any harm yet int-e: no niinku pl niinku fnord niinku fnord fnord fnord 11:53:49 `? qdbformat 11:53:50 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 11:54:44 hth 11:57:54 ​`addquote oerjan says:`? qdbformat[...]oerjan says:hth 11:58:54 What is this evil quote format? 11:59:32 It allows us to achieve great wisdom.pdf 11:59:42 (that's my guess) 11:59:53 * int-e is too lazy to check the repo. 12:00:01 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 12:00:19 the format is considerably older than the pdf hth 12:00:35 tdnh 12:00:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:01:29 Because it does not answer this question: Where else is the format exploited? 12:02:31 nowhere afaik 12:03:11 it's simply a measure of consistency. it also helps a bit when quotes themselves contain quotes. 12:04:15 not in every case though. 12:04:20 `quote django 12:04:21 262) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 307) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 308) `quote django ​352) django is named a 12:15:39 -!- boily has joined. 12:20:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:29:18 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Quit: Tritonio1). 12:40:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:46:30 `run quote django | wc -l 12:46:30 8 12:47:05 `cat bin/allquotes 12:47:06 ​#!/bin/sh \ nl -w 1 -s ') ' quotes 12:47:47 `run tail -n 1 quotes 12:47:47 ​ fungot has not done me any harm yet int-e: no niinku pl niinku fnord niinku fnord fnord fnord 12:47:51 I see 12:57:26 now that HackEgo seems to be alive and well, I should get back to updating the Wisdom... 12:57:52 does it have logs yet? 12:58:09 `pastlog acciaccatura 12:58:39 ​/hackenv/bin/pastlog: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ ls: cannot access ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 12:58:55 nope :-( 12:59:04 your logs are in a different castle 13:00:42 lexande: hellexandello. my name is boily. you don't have a Wisdom Entry describing you. prepare to be wisdomified. 13:04:55 What happened to the logs? 13:05:10 they're still there, they're just not inside HackEgo's VM 13:05:11 elliott: you are vile. you rmed the *elcome*s. 13:05:15 so HackEgo can't see them 13:05:21 `welcome what about this one 13:05:21 Ah 13:05:21 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome: not found 13:05:26 wow, even that one? 13:05:36 Did the VM get reset? 13:06:16 it's a "new" VM, new as in no more than several monthd old 13:06:21 *months 13:06:43 What caused the revert? 13:06:53 I thought it was all in hg so it would be easy to restore a backup 13:07:34 ais523: um elliott deleted the welcomes in a fit of ...something... 13:07:43 well the binaries. 13:07:54 Vorpal: the filesystem wasn't reverted 13:07:58 elliott deleted the welcomes in a fit of binaries??? 13:08:02 just the VM is on a different physical computer 13:08:09 not the same one that's doing the logging 13:08:18 Hm 13:09:58 yes the logs were never inside the repository, just mounted on the same machine 13:11:06 although the codu.org webserver obviously has access to both 13:11:28 (still) 13:12:04 `run df 13:12:05 df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory 13:12:39 `run ls /var 13:12:39 ls: cannot access /var: No such file or directory 13:12:42 `run ls / 13:12:43 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 13:13:58 ais523: the spanish welcome is still there, but elliott tells me all the recurring spanish people are the same anyway 13:18:33 this is a spanish-language channel, after all 13:19:42 elliott: well that welcome has been tailored specifically to make it clear we're not. 13:21:23 it's a shame, really. i was somehow imagining somewhere a venezuelan site with a convenient list of irc channels people could try, which had somehow been made by grepping for es in channel names 13:22:09 oh, that's brilliant 13:22:12 I want to believe that now 13:22:30 not *all* the spanish people are one person 13:22:36 there was just one particularly persistent one over the last few months 13:22:51 I think the "es" hypotesis is plausible. 13:23:30 elliott: are all the venezuelans the same? 13:23:47 um, not sure 13:24:42 good, good, we can continue to believe then 13:29:10 oerjan: If you want to get all technical about it, the HackEgo hg browser is actually running on www2.codu.org, a different VPS (the one HackEgo also runs), and www.codu.org just (AFAIK) proxymates the access. 13:30:02 s/runs/runs on/ 13:30:46 ah. 13:33:40 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:33:50 ~metar ENVA 13:33:50 ENVA 061320Z 26007KT 9999 FEW040 SCT070 08/01 Q1007 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 36002KT 13:34:16 ~yi 13:34:16 Your divination: "Obstruction" to "Clustering" 13:39:03 b_jonas: sorry about you getting caught in the spam filter, that's probably the first false positive in the modern era of spam filtering 13:39:20 (graue's spam filter blocked "span" and "div", that was hilarious…) 13:39:28 (…in that it lead to some interesting workarounds) 13:39:46 yeah we had span and div _templates_ instead 13:40:34 and it took some silly workarounds to make _those_ without triggering the filter in the process. 13:41:00 oerjan: a spambot somehow managed to make a page whose URL triggered the spam filter if it appeared in the Referer header 13:41:12 i remember that 13:41:31 given that deleting a page is a POST request, that took a bunch of confusion before I told my browser to turn referers off on Esolang 13:45:07 it seems there isn't that much spam nowadays, there have been no new filter catches since fizzie fixed the logging. well, unless it broke again i guess. 13:45:37 just a thought: fizzie's server is a different physical server from elliott's, right? 13:45:42 so presumably it has a different IP 13:45:47 perhaps the spambots don't use DNS 13:45:49 yes, it's Gregor's 13:46:06 the IPv4 space is easier to bruteforce than the domain name space… 13:46:31 ais523: um how can they post to a webserver without knowing the hostname? 13:46:45 i suppose some might allow it... 13:46:58 webservers often have a default hostname 13:47:02 esolangs.org did not. 13:47:06 or rather, solidity did not 13:47:08 right 13:47:16 And the new esolangs.org does not, either. 13:47:47 (Because the "default" server, the one it hits without a esolangs.org Host: header, is the www2.codu.org one, where there's just the hg browser and nothing else.) 13:49:15 * oerjan now imagines interlinking the wiki and HackEgo 13:50:21 Would you like HackEgo to post all recent changes on-channel?-) 13:50:27 (MediaWiki has some features for that.) 13:50:32 fancy 13:50:50 tempting 13:51:20 (I mean, they're not for IRC in particular, but it has some general mechanisms for getting change notifications out.) 13:51:59 fizzie: I think they were originally for IRC 13:52:09 in fact, IRC's the recommended official way to get a stream of all changes to Wikipedia 13:52:11 if you need one for some reason 13:53:27 fizzie: I tried to set that up once. 13:53:37 there are pre-built bridges from the UDP thing to IRC. 13:53:49 It sounds a bit spammy, but maybe it's not too bad 14:02:04 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:03:35 FireFly: There aren't typically very many changes/day, so there's at least that. 14:09:34 (On the other hand, it's kind of a silly idea, and we all know how serious and, for want of a better word, reserved, this channel is.) 14:10:33 hear hear 14:11:11 ^style europarl 14:11:12 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 14:11:35 fungot: what is your opinion on the meat shortage? 14:11:36 oerjan: in fact, this would result in a conclusion that is perceived as a lame duck in the community institutions the council, to the framework of agenda 2000 but also to the rights associated with citizenship, which must be understood in every country, probably loses more from the commission was behind the policy choices now about what we are discussing this morning because these are very important. 14:12:10 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 14:12:32 well that certainly clears it up. 14:13:37 * oerjan forgot the "excuse me" 14:18:40 fungot: How come you didn't address the channel as "Mr. President"? 14:18:41 fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the emperor is not wearing any clothes. these organisations are often under threat, at a revised directive for the duty of care for all those who have battled very fnord against the dual use of the most important details are dealt with objectively and impartially so that all of that here, hardly anybody, or rather on public access to documents which, due to the lack of backbone of the 14:21:36 fungot: what is your foreign policy on the Existence of Canada? 14:21:36 boily: madam president, i have tried to impose its legal point of view to match the objectives and procedures agreed upon by the commission on this issue. the commission can accept the first part of the amendment of directive 90/ 220/ eec, according to the united states 14:27:36 Sounds like you're getting annexed. 14:29:12 fungot: what are your thoughts concerning the situation in Crimea? 14:29:13 FireFly: madam president, commissioner, the copenhagen facility, money is given to improving transparency and a closer relationship with the applicant countries on this day that franz fnord fnord was murdered, together with a series of dictates issued from brussels as to what is being done, and i very much welcome an extension of the single market 14:30:34 wow, that almost seems relevant 14:31:46 I'm sorry fungot, I can't let you do that 14:31:47 FireFly: mr prodi, i ask the president-in-office of the council! we should note that the report only covers areas over which there is discussion everywhere the usa cannot achieve this itself. perhaps with that background it is totally wrong. as far as the framework is concerned. 14:33:18 I honestly hope "money is given to improving transparency" is a synthesis 14:33:28 (Regarding the es hypothesis, #selinux says in its /topic that the swedish linux channel is #linux.se .) 14:34:01 Also, franz ferdinord 14:34:20 Melvar: haha, that's also brilliant 14:34:36 as a joke, or does it come up often enough that they felt it was required? 14:36:35 I don’t know. 14:37:56 Does someone know a good way to pipe /list into grep? 14:38:55 you could hack together something involving netcat, nobuffer, and tee, I guess 14:39:08 not sure if the nobuffer is required, it often is, though 14:40:48 ~duck nobuffer 14:40:49 --- No relevant information 14:41:12 boily: it's something I wrote, but I'm sure loads of other people wrote it too 14:41:44 it basically just adds LD_PRELOAD hooks to get stdio to stop buffering, you inject it into programs that use default stdio buffering in cases where that's unacceptable for what you're doing 14:42:03 (and it does /that/ by hooking fopen and friends to call setvbuf and turn buffering off) 14:42:22 Does that do more that stdbuf? 14:42:34 ? 14:44:01 `stdbuf 14:44:01 stdbuf: missing operand \ Try `stdbuf --help' for more information. 14:44:16 `stdbuf --help 14:44:17 Usage: stdbuf OPTION... COMMAND \ Run COMMAND, with modified buffering operations for its standard streams. \ \ Mandatory arguments to long options are mandatory for short options too. \ -i, --input=MODE adjust standard input stream buffering \ -o, --output=MODE adjust standard output stream buffering \ -e, --error=MODE adjust standard 14:44:27 oh neat, it even has a standard name 14:44:37 and is installed here too 14:44:46 so I needn't have written nobuffer after all :-) 14:44:46 stdbuf is in coreutils. 14:45:01 I suspect it only sets fd buffering, though, not stdio. 14:45:18 -!- oerjan has set topic: Note that the Spanish Oteric channel is #oteric.es | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 14:46:00 Jafet: no, it sets stdio buffering 14:46:03 fds don't /have/ buffering 14:46:28 interesting. “stdbuf --help”'s French translation is only halfway done, with random sentences in English. 14:47:07 "BUGS: On GLIBC platforms, specifying a buffer size, i.e. using fully buffered mode will result in undefined operation." 14:47:14 stdbuf's info page states that it doesn't work with tee, because tee changes buffering itself 14:47:19 So yes, stdbuf truly is just nobuffer. 14:47:21 so maybe you don't need a nobuffer with tee 14:53:15 Among other lesser-known coreutils is ptx, which can be used to make a search engine. 14:54:56 what the fungot is that mysterious utility... 14:54:56 boily: mr president, as we have always been a broad measure of agreement between the european union to take the results of the brussels 2 convention, but also with their quality. 14:55:03 Jafet: ptx confuses me a lot 14:55:14 Jafet: ptx puzzles me a lot. 14:55:15 mostly because I can't figure out what it's meant to do even after reading the info page 14:55:28 well, it creates a permuted index 14:55:29 but what is that? 14:56:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Like an index, but all over the place). 14:56:26 I figured out what it was by running it on a file. 14:58:04 you mean to say you ran a program without knowing what it did? 14:58:12 even if it comes from coreutils, that seems a little risky 14:58:46 The manual clearly says that it reads input files and produces some kind of output 14:59:07 (It creates a strangely-formatted index of the input.) 15:00:03 hmm, I wonder who maintains the coreutils Info file 15:00:14 it is decorative. I ran it on a DCSS morgue file. lots of zombies! 15:00:17 if it isn't Ulrich Drepper, it may be worth working out what the program does and then sending a patch 15:01:06 -!- ter2 has joined. 15:02:42 I believe (and hope) that Drepper does not maintain anything in coreutils. 15:03:28 Who is Ulrich Drepper and why does that name look vaguely familiar? 15:04:31 FireFly: from gnulibc, “with Ulrich Drepper[4] as the lead contributor and maintainer.” 15:04:41 s/nu// 15:05:22 Okay 15:05:33 that [4] looks ominous 15:06:55 of course it is ominous. it is the Number Four of Death! 15:08:25 drepper no longer maintains glibc 15:08:33 Hey, it occurs to me that people here might know: Are there any other -l puns other than libiberty and libowfat? 15:08:33 he was fired or whatever 15:08:51 Drepper is a very clever programmer and maintainer who often gets frustrated because many others are not as clever as he is. 15:09:08 I suspect -loobs is a reverse pun. 15:11:04 I suspect that there are, but can't think of any offhand 15:11:28 unless you count libraries that happen to make real words by coincidence, such as libick 15:11:44 $ locate libick.a | wc -l 15:11:45 35 15:11:51 wow I have a lot of compiled versions of INTERCAL 15:12:20 -!- tromp has joined. 15:12:39 some people have pron stashes on their machines. other collect intercal compilers... 15:13:13 one of them is in a backup of my account on a SunOS workstation 15:13:23 the account probably doesn't still exist, but who knows, it might 15:13:41 I don't have physical nor network access to the computer in question, so no way to tell 15:15:06 That's handy, I didn't know about timeout(1) 15:15:14 I imagine very few people my age have ever had the experience of accidentally writing programs that aren't portable to Unices other than SunOS 15:15:45 "Some platforms don't curently support timeouts beyond 2038" 15:15:56 Y2038K bugs are annoying 15:16:13 in another 23 years, maybe there'll be a huge panic and I'll be called in to help out with the cleanup effort 15:16:22 or maybe the world will end because people became complacent after Y2K 15:16:32 err, Y2K38 15:20:05 I thought the world ended in 2012 15:20:21 we need 2012 the game (a spin-off of 2048) 15:20:23 I thought that theory was conclusively disproved in 2013 15:20:47 ais523: Not conclusively 15:20:55 lifthrasiir: easy, it's identical to 2048, except your goal is to make 2012 (via integer overflow, obviously) 15:21:06 I mean... how do you know that 2012 doesn't exist anymore? 15:21:43 ais523, or modulo 2012, which would be a bit more interesting 15:22:00 `sdate date 15:22:00 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sdate: not found 15:22:13 oh come on, what sort of self-respecting server doesn't have sdate? 15:22:41 mroman: so you combine two 1024s to create a 36 15:22:48 then what? 15:23:47 I have no idea what 1024 has to do with 36 15:24:11 (1024 + 1024) % 2012 == 36, right? 15:24:38 anyway, the integer overflow joke is that you can't integer overflow in 2048 because there's not enough room on the board, and if you could, you'd get 0 15:24:39 I meant more the thing where time coexists 15:25:01 oh, I pinged the wrong person 15:25:02 lifthrasiir: ^ 15:25:48 ais523, yeah, 36. I'm actively destroying your joke :p 15:26:18 since it is modulo 2012, the eventual goal would be to make 2012 modulo 2012, aka 0. 15:26:20 but if it's modulo 2012, you can never get 2012 exactly, best you can get is 0 which is equivaent 15:26:30 there isn't enough room to make 0 module 2012 either, though 15:27:18 wheezy has: libace libarch libass libast libawl libax libemma libend libib libice libid libint libion liboath libobby libode liboop liboping liboss libots libow libowfat libs libust, though most of them are probably unintended. 15:29:18 is that in a default install? 15:29:37 checking the repos would be even better, as in more false positives 15:32:00 I have only libass it seems, satisfying that criteria 15:32:31 ais523: http://man.cat-v.org/unix-1st/1/sdate ? 15:32:50 nortti: no 15:33:06 `run ls /lib/lib*.so /usr/lib/lib*.so | sed 's:(/usr)?/lib/lib:l:; s:\.so$::' | sort | comm -12 - /usr/share/dict/words 15:33:07 ls: cannot access /lib/lib*.so: No such file or directory \ comm: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory 15:33:09 also UNIX first edition predates september 1993 15:33:17 $ sdate date 15:33:17 Sun Sep 7523 16:33:03 BST 1993 15:33:24 oh 15:33:32 `ls /usr/share/dict 15:33:32 No output. 15:33:33 523! 15:33:44 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PERMUTATIONALISED CHICKEN). 15:33:46 [wiki] [[User:Fizzie]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39225&oldid=39224 * Fizzie * (-59) I removed a test, but it keeps happening. 15:33:47 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:33:49 `ddate 15:33:49 Today is Sweetmorn, the 23rd day of Discord in the YOLD 3180 15:34:50 sdate is a great way to confuse random program 15:34:53 *programs 15:35:04 it's quite common for programs to assume that there can't be more than 31 days in a month 15:35:18 quite reasonable, too 15:36:27 how can you say that on September 7523? 15:36:50 oh 15:36:57 Now I see what sdate is doing 15:37:01 well, as long as one uses gregorian calendar 15:37:26 the sdate calendar is much simpler in many ways 15:37:27 Huh, I thought the above didn't work at all, because I was all scrolled up in the backscroll. 15:40:30 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:46:07 for l in $(apt-cache search --names-only 'lib.*' | grep -Eo '^lib[aeiou][a-zA-Z]+' | uniq | sed 's/^lib/l/'); do for i in `seq $#l -1 3`; do if ( dict -s exact -d wn -m ${l[1,$i]} >/dev/null 2>&1 ); then echo $l; break; fi; done; done 15:46:43 Most of the matches are the minimum, 3 letters long. 15:50:11 -!- ^v has joined. 15:51:58 ais523: Quite a lot of our university (including a classroom full of UltraSPARC 10 workstations, and both main general-use shell servers) ran on SunOS not more than a decade ago, so I think a lot of our CS students have that experience. 15:54:38 Heh. My main experience with Solaris is that killall will in fact, kill all. 15:55:31 Incidentally, if I make "test" edits of my user page (e.g. after upgrade, to test that everything still works), is it considered good MediaWiki administrative practice to somehow undo those (if that's even possible) so that they don't clutter up RC or page history? 15:56:35 ais523, sdate does some sort of LD_PRELOAD? 15:56:49 Vorpal: pretty much 15:57:42 Hm I suspect it won't break cfunge, I only think I use unix timestamp in that for the DATE fingerprint 15:58:29 Oh, DATE doesn't even have a command to get current date? 15:58:34 only for conversion 15:58:35 right 15:59:17 Oh okay, TIME uses localtime/gmtime, so that would be confused 15:59:22 I assume 16:15:14 Gah, the offline experience of Google Maps Android has gone so downhill. 16:15:16 It used to be so that you had a separate "Offline" tab in "My Places", where you could see a list of what's available offline, and remove/add regions, and when adding you could drag the bounding box what you want to cache. 16:15:20 But in this 7.x version, there seems to be no way at all of seeing what is available offline, and adding new regions is done by the most illogical way I have ever heard of: you zoom the map so that what you want to cache offline is visible, and then search for "ok maps". 16:15:24 Then it flashes briefly something to the tune of "caching map data", but afterwards there seems to be no indication of what exactly it saved. 16:16:01 Incidentally, if I make "test" edits of my user page (e.g. after upgrade, to test that everything still works), is it considered good MediaWiki administrative practice to somehow undo those (if that's even possible) so that they don't clutter up RC or page history? 16:16:03 not really 16:16:12 fizzie, downgrade if you can, that is what I did 16:16:26 I mean, just compare: https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650377?hl=en&ref_topic=2649131 https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/3273567?hl=en&ref_topic=3273087 16:16:38 fizzie: (re the comment Phantom_Hoover quoted) no, although sometimes it's considered good form to use a page designed for test edits 16:16:50 those pages can later have the test edits removed in batch 16:17:07 actually, that reminds me of the old AfD page on Wikipedia 16:17:15 or maybe VfD 16:17:55 before it was split into subpages, it had been edited so many times that when an annoyed admin deleted it, it brought the site down because the server couldn't handle deleting that many edits 16:18:13 then when it was subsequently undeleted (after the site came back up), it brought the site down again 16:18:40 ais523, heh 16:18:44 then the developers added a limit that you can't delete pages that have been edited 5000 or more times, so some enterprising admin decided to get a bot to edit the Main Page 5000 times in order to stop it being deleted 16:19:00 the developers stopped that at like 3000 because it was creating a bunch of load in of itself 16:19:03 ais523, also how could it bring the server down if the delete isn't permanent? Isn't it just marking a flag then 16:19:37 ais523, would the main page be in risk of being deleted though? 16:19:38 it's not exactly a flag internally, the edit gets moved to a separate table, and a whole bunch of tables that relate to non-deleted edits get change 16:19:40 *changed 16:19:50 fizzie: notifying people the wiki upgraded is prtetty useful, anyway 16:19:53 and yeah, the main page used to get deleted quite frequently 16:20:13 ais523, why? Shouldn't those admins that did it get fired then? 16:20:14 it was the #1 most common action for disgruntled admins (which is strange, because it doesn't cause a whole lot of damage) 16:20:26 haha, fired 16:20:30 as if MW admins get paid 16:20:31 It’s rather visible though. 16:20:38 and yeah, obviously they were desysopped, unless they could successfully pass it off as a joke and also a lapse of judgement at the same time 16:20:42 or an accident 16:20:47 elliott, well the equivalent. Stripped of their rank, whatever 16:20:53 I think it has been deleted by accident before now 16:21:01 anyway, there are a whole bunch of protections in place nowadays 16:21:39 I think I'm one of the few people who knows how to delete the Main Page through them, and even then, a) I no longer have the perms; b) with the protections in place, doing so would be rather time-consuming, and there'd be a pretty high chance someone would notice what I was doing and stop me 16:22:24 using a bot to help out would make it a bit faster, although testing it would be awkward; if you're going to break the rules to the extent of running an unapproved bot 16:22:32 err, to the extent of deleting the main page 16:22:42 you're probably not going to be worried about running an unauthorized bot 16:23:00 testing it sounds easy, just run a local test wiki 16:23:52 before it was split into subpages, it had been edited so many times that when an annoyed admin deleted it, it brought the site down because the server couldn't handle deleting that many edits 16:24:02 wasn't 'the annoyed admin' ed poor? 16:24:16 According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don't_delete_the_main_page it's protected in the mediawiki software nowadays 16:24:21 not sure, I don't typically remember the names of specific disgruntled admins 16:24:23 FireFly: yes, I know 16:25:02 this is why very few people would be able to delete it, you'd need a knowledge of how the software works in addition to a knowledge of the redundant protections on enwiki in particular 16:25:14 and for all I know, they may have added more since I stopped actively adminning Wikpedia 16:27:32 * Melvar is amused that Wikipedia:Don't delete the main page has the shortcut WP:IDIOT . 16:28:26 those shortcuts are incredibly cheap to create 16:28:37 you could make one right now if you felt like it, and given that they're rather more expensive to delete 16:28:46 if it's remotely plausible people would probably just let it stay 16:29:25 and there are lots of them on en.wikipedia: the very long page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:B_jonas/Pages_with_shortcuts lists many of them 16:29:55 note that it only lists ones where the target page has a template marking the shortcut 16:29:56 Wikipedia:Village stocks apparently has WP:AAAARGH 16:30:10 and there are lots more where the target page isn't marked 16:30:52 there are shortcuts like P:P -- guess where that goes 16:31:15 or P:N 16:31:28 P: is Portal:, I guess 16:31:30 P:M wasn't Microsoft... 16:31:32 then there's P:Z 16:31:37 but there are numerous portals that could start with P 16:34:26 probably most of them actually do start with P 16:35:16 /most/? 16:35:17 “WP:Oh I say, what are you doing? Come down from there at once! Really, you're making a frightful exhibition of yourself.” 16:36:46 The target's title doesn't make *much* more sense 16:37:32 Melvar: I remember that page being created 16:37:39 I forget the context, but ISTR it was necessary 16:42:55 Does that redirect to the reichstag page 16:44:39 yes 16:54:16 I forget the context, but ISTR it was necessary <-- what? Why? 16:54:25 as I said, I forget 16:54:38 My mind just boggles at the idea such a page could be *required* 16:54:50 like, people were taking something too seriously, and it was causing problems 16:54:58 Okay 16:55:00 Hm 16:55:49 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:56:26 I think there were also people who didn't understand WP:POINT 17:05:41 ooh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P:X 17:09:22 P:Q seems to be free 17:14:46 Aw, that’s just an x. 17:24:14 `coins 17:24:15 q-revercoin holdecoin quiseporacoin glypecoin usaumcoin rfollocoin baggedcoin temparncoin l3841coin zowcoin braincoin :coin redgrecoin mempaicoin raintfcoin petrocoin sellcoin thumorecoin toicoin condicoin 17:25:14 `coins 17:25:15 rhotorcoin nconveccoin gracoin smycelcoin kayakcoin bythessenhohcoin dobbocoin brbcoin devercoin rnarycoin memmentcoin sedcoin sorccoin overspidcoin bhacoin convecorritcoin migoritaffcoin objectdrumcoin tbfcoin huntedlyearandeltcoin 17:25:24 `cat bin/coins 17:25:24 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 17:25:30 right 17:28:51 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:41:52 Huh, someone was just querying for "DrIvErcAzo.esOLaNGs.oRg" (with that capitalization) when I was debugging a (non-esolangs) DNS thing and looking at tcpdump. 17:42:07 (Spoiler: there is no such host.) 17:42:36 I /said/ that brute-forcing the space of all domain names would be harder than brute-forcing IPs :-) 17:43:27 Huh, and now crawl-66-249-66-216.googlebot.com asked for "drivercazo.esolangs.org", in lowercase. Was that in fact something at some point? 17:43:57 Four Google hits for the name. 17:44:17 perhaps someone linked to it 17:44:26 with that random caps 17:44:32 and googlebot converts to lowercase 17:46:35 Two of the hits did have curious-looking links; for /stranica/drayver-dlya-netronix-mn01.html and /catalog/drayver-dlya-i7500.html. 17:56:38 Oh: https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Use+of+Mixed+Case+DNS+Queries/12418 17:57:16 (There were more mixed-case queries, so I got curious.) 17:58:11 Crafty trick. 18:01:29 fizzie: IME the logs are always filled with the weirdest things 18:01:56 fizzie: https://twitter.com/zucrowgo/status/184029492237438976 18:02:00 I haven't even looked at the web server log. 18:34:27 douglass_: "We have two mugs of tea; one has pictures of geese and one has the MongoDB logo." shachaf: "Oh no, which is the lesser of two evils?" 18:44:29 Geese are evil? 18:54:28 fizzie, interesting, that mixed case thing, but I wonder what happens when some DNS server doesn't maintain the case. Surely stuff will break then, and if you allow for that you basically nullified security. 18:54:36 Geese are vicious! 18:54:44 They bite. 18:55:41 fizzie, You can't even reliably keep track of when it worked in the past of course, since the server software could change, or there could be some BGP anycast going on making it resolve to different servers at different points in time 18:55:48 It probably works most of the time, but still... 18:56:36 The page you linked even said "almost all" hm 18:57:59 The RFC says "all". 18:58:07 Though of course that's just an empirical observation. 18:58:21 I can only find a draft RFC for it 18:58:33 The draft is what I meant. 18:58:33 From 2008 18:58:48 That is quite a long time for it just to sit around as a draft isn't ut? 18:58:51 it* 18:59:53 Long enough that it has expired, yes. 19:00:00 Right 19:00:19 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:00:31 (The validity period is six months.) 19:00:34 Well I use unbound locally, I could probably turn it on 19:01:50 The expired draft does mention "a small set of rare and/or private label authoritative DNS implementations" that do lowercase names. 19:02:24 Right 19:03:32 geese don't have moral agency so I guess they can't be evil 19:03:37 but they are vicious, though 19:03:39 swans are worse though 19:03:46 swans will break your arm 19:03:48 kmc, are you sure they don't? 19:03:55 they also fight to the death over territory 19:04:09 which upsets people who want swans to be peaceful symbols of love 19:04:19 I think pigeons are a much better peaceful symbol of love 19:04:27 I should probably finally get DNSSEC on for zem.fi one of these days; it's just that IIRC, the free secondary-DNS service I've been using doesn't grok the records. 19:04:30 (Kind of shabby that none of them do TSIG for zone transfers, either.) 19:04:37 one time a flock of geese chased douglass_ and me down a hill and almost into the Charles River Basin 19:05:21 there was that time when I was in the middle of a flock of geese, the ones behind me were trying to force me forwards in order to disturb the ones ahead of me 19:05:30 none of them actually attacked but it was pretty scary 19:05:42 * kmc -> lunch 19:05:46 kmc, pigeons? Peace? Really? When I hear pigeon I think of all the issues they cause in cities 19:05:59 fizzie: did I ever give you alan dipert's email? in case there's ever any domain stuff with esolangs.org 19:06:04 I guess that is a symbol of love, given how many there are 19:06:18 elliott: I don't think I have it, no. 19:06:18 elliott: you missed out the article :-( 19:06:19 Vorpal: when people like them they usually call them "doves" instead of "pigeons", but the terms are basically interchangeable 19:06:38 fizzie: okay, alan@dipert.org then 19:06:50 Now that you've said it, it actually sounds familiar. 19:06:55 kmc, yes, and I see right through that nomenclature and still dislike them :P 19:07:07 although googling suggests adipert@acm.org?? 19:07:19 "the alan dipert" was the usual terminology, IIRC 19:07:33 but alan@dipert.org is the one I received emails from and sent to. 19:07:50 maybe they're different people? 19:08:05 fizzie, speaking of free secondary DNS, what do you use for that? 19:09:35 ais523: they are not. 19:09:44 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:10:14 Also, IIRC pigeons supposedly don’t taste too bad if they haven’t been eating trash. 19:10:17 fizzie, been looking for one myself 19:10:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:11:21 Vorpal: I use twisted4life.com at the moment, but it's kind of clunky. And their server is in Malaysia somewhere, which I guess is good for redundancy, but it's quite slow from many places. Earlier, I've used afraid.org and xname.org. And there's buddyns.com and dns.he.net I've heard of. 19:11:55 fizzie, hm what about more than 2 DNS server? Couldn't you use several. 19:12:13 Sure, but it's even more of a hassle. 19:12:18 True 19:12:31 Some of those come with more than one server, anyway. 19:12:34 I would assume the he.net one is quite reputable 19:13:12 I've been thinking about it, since I already have their IPv6 pipe and all, but they don't have DNSSEC support yet either. (Not sure if that just means for their primary DNS side, though.) 19:14:44 None of those you mentioned seems to support DNSSEC, at least they are not listing it 19:15:22 I seem to recall afraid.org had something. 19:15:47 Their FAQ doesn't say anything about it, though. 19:19:07 -!- ais523 has quit. 19:20:55 (And there's https://acc.rollernet.us/help/dns/secondary.php that I know of that's explicitly DNSSEC-compatible and free.) 19:21:21 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:23:35 https://forums.he.net/index.php?topic=3139.0 "still some hurdles" 19:24:54 vorpal: I use https://puck.nether.net/dns/ and http://freedns.afraid.org/secondary/ 19:25:07 vorpal: http://www.frankb.us/dns/ 19:25:24 The ones i’m using support DNSSEC. 19:29:32 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 19:39:48 -!- ^v has joined. 19:42:00 ion, hm nice 19:43:09 Huh I just got SMS spam, that was new 19:44:59 I guess CM doesn't have a block list, oh well 19:49:02 fizzie, based on that link ion posted, I guess afraid is good 19:49:09 Doesn't do ipv6 apparently 19:56:27 fizzie, elliott, ion: What is a good VPS provider? I want to do my own domain, web server and mail server basically. 19:56:41 Reasonably priced 19:59:13 I’m afraid i don’t know, i haven’t been looking for a VPS. 20:02:26 I'm running zem.fi on Tilaa, and I think it's good. 20:02:57 (That really-cheap-dedicated-server link someone posted was rather intriguing, too.) 20:03:17 (That's "Tilaa" as in tilaa.nl.) 20:03:52 That redirects to tilaa.com 20:04:14 Also, I wouldn't want to deal with the crap that a dedicated server means 20:04:36 fizzie, Tilaa uses xen I guess? 20:06:25 Oh, I guess .com is their primary domain, then. 20:06:29 And yes, it's a Xen shop. 20:06:31 Hm 20:06:44 I have no idea what a reasonable price is here though 20:07:35 fizzie, I guess they allow mail? And I presume irc too? 20:07:45 (As in bouncer, not server) 20:07:52 You can compare prices with some "mainstream" providers, like Linode or a reserved Amazon EC2 instance. 20:07:57 Hm 20:09:01 And I don't think Tilaa has any restrictions except some generic "must follow local (Dutch) law" clause. 20:09:06 And something about the bandwidth. 20:09:51 It says network traffic is unlimted/free on the configurator at least 20:10:08 Presumably there is some clause about null routing in case of DDoS or similar though 20:10:42 "-- not allowed to run services that continuously use full capacity, like public software mirrors, BitTorrent seeding or web crawling/indexing --" in the "knowledge base". 20:10:47 Rather vaguely worded, but oh well. 20:10:56 Well okay, that seems kind of reasonable 20:11:30 There are other places where you pay for anything above some fixed number, which is arguably at least more consistent. 20:11:39 what does a "reserved" EC2 mean btw? 20:12:40 Also EC2 pricing is convoluted 20:12:59 They have "on-demand" instances where you pay per hour whenever the server is online, and "reserved" instances where you make a single payment, and then get a discounted hourly rate. 20:13:22 (I thought reserved instances had some monthly price, but apparently it's an upfront cost nowadays. May have changed, of course.) 20:13:22 Also I seem to remember reading about EC2 blocking outgoing SMTP 20:14:28 Yeah I can't be bothered to dig through that pricing model 20:14:47 Yes, it's kind of convoluted. Separate prices for data transfer and storage and all that. 20:14:57 At least for Linode you should be able to find a single number. 20:15:13 Yes, and it seems generally a bit more expensive than Tilaa 20:16:24 I used prgmr before Tilaa (like I guess I've mentioned), and I don't have anything really to complain there either, except for some lag for interactive use (but I doubt they can do much about the speed of light). It's a bit less "commercial-looking" than Tilaa. 20:18:12 fizzie, so far Tilaa seems to offer the most bang for the buck 20:18:52 Also why does prgmr list Debian 6.0.3 as an option they will install, but not Debian 7? Debian 6 is *oldstable* 20:19:15 Not impressed by that in the least 20:22:16 Oh, EC2 is only 99.95% uptime? I expected more from them 20:24:52 There are quite a few extremely cheap places selling OpenVZ and the like, if you want to go that way. 20:25:00 Hell no 20:25:10 ooh, that is sneaky, Tilaa excludes "external factors" "such as" "DDoS attacks" 20:25:22 in the uptime guarantee 20:25:38 fizzie, anyway you said Tilaa used xen right? 20:25:53 Anyway why would places using openvz be cheaper 20:26:27 I guess because you don't need to dedicate RAM for your guests then. 20:26:42 Easier to oversell. 20:28:03 Ah 20:29:12 fizzie, yeah Tilaa's uptime guarnatee is kind of shitty, seems good otherwise though 20:30:54 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:32:06 fizzie, which distro did you go for on Tilaa btw? 20:32:20 Just out of interest 20:32:26 Debian. 20:32:29 Ah 20:33:26 And yes, their SLA is kind of funny; I guess it only includes their own mistakes and nothing else, since their own planned maintenance as well as acts of unspecified "third parties" are all excluded. 20:33:38 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:34:33 fungot: What do you think of Tilaa? I know you're not exactly running there, but you've been speaking via them for no particular reason except convenience and vanity. 20:34:34 fizzie: madam president, mr mauro used an example. finally, mr marset campos: we hope that the process in november with the formal presentation of the euro and in view of the fact that the president of the commission, and we will also have to work with you to intervene to stop uncontrolled and illegal immigration on public opinion and the draft joint action as amended, i would ask for the commission and in the draft resolution 20:37:01 fizzie, why not run it on tilaa? 20:37:05 Model files too large? 20:39:14 Jafet: It's a bit late, but "money is given to improving transparency" is indeed a synthesis. (From "In connection with global loans, that is, the Copenhagen facility, money is given to banks which then issue the loans." and "-- priority should be given to improving transparency and a clear demarcation of powers between the European Union and the Member States.") 20:40:00 Vorpal: Well, they're slightly large. But there's no really strong reason why not, except laziness. 20:40:19 fizzie, how large are they, combined? 20:40:25 The chroot jail for fungot is 646M. 20:40:25 fizzie: mr president, the report proposes to introduce competition in air transport services entails risks which have been declared adopted and i do it willingly. madam president, i am fully behind the support which the european parliament. 20:40:42 Oh okay, that is just program, interpreter and model? 20:41:06 I guess the interpreter + libraries would account for a couple of megabytes at most 20:41:11 Actually, it's not even that, since I kludged in cfunge the "chroot at startup" feature. 20:41:30 It's only the Funge-98 sources and data. 20:42:10 fizzie, hey, you should send a patch upstream ;P 20:42:29 And apparently some DNS resolver support files, though I don't think those are used for anything at the moment. 20:42:30 Personally I would be using an umlbox like what HackEgo uses 20:42:44 An umlbox might be nice too. 20:42:55 I guess that would be out of question on a VPS though? 20:43:09 Or I guess since it is xen, you could do it... 20:43:10 HackEgo runs on a VPS, so I don't see why not. 20:43:17 Hm okay 20:43:30 I mean, it's just a process almost just like any other. 20:44:06 I thought it used special stuff from the kernel 20:44:08 But maybe not 20:44:14 -!- maurer_ has joined. 20:44:39 There was some sort of a performance thing. 20:44:42 I forget the details. 20:44:52 Xen is "just" like having your own machine. 20:44:55 except for the ways in which it's not. 20:45:08 Such as you couldn't do hw virutalization inside it yeah 20:45:33 UML had the "Skas mode" that needed a patch, but I can't remember if that got replaced by something newer. 20:46:36 The cfunge process has a RSS of 6988k and a VSZ of 27592k, so I guess it would fit okayish even on my so-small-they-no-longer-sell-it 256M RAM Tilaa instance. 20:47:35 fizzie, oh, what does it cost you? 20:47:52 Also, I forget what VSZ is 20:48:02 Address space cost, I think. 20:48:04 And 4.77 EUR/month, IIRC. 20:48:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:19 -!- maurer has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:20 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:23 -!- itsy has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:24 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 20:48:31 (That's including VAT; the prices quoted on their page were, at least before, excluding it.) 20:48:34 fizzie, Oh, so cheaper than any available option, 20:48:44 -!- copumpkin has joined. 20:49:05 Yes. But it's also "only" 6 gigs of disk, too. 20:49:22 I made up a implementation of a "CREATE FUNCTION" command on SQL. 20:49:32 fizzie, ah 20:49:43 Er, make that 10 gigs, apparently. Huh. I was sure it was six. 20:49:47 I don't know, if that server supports this SQL extensions or not. 20:51:54 `run uname -a 20:51:54 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 20:52:05 That's quite new. 20:54:09 If you are not going to store any movies and/or pornography, then probably 6 GB is sufficient. 20:54:30 -!- lambdabot has joined. 20:54:47 It's a bit few also for things like photos. 20:55:32 Our collection of vacation photos shared with family and friends seems to be 21G at the moment. 20:55:41 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:56:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:59:55 Bah, UML documentation is so fragmentary and (in many places) old. The HOWTO in Documentation/ of the kernel sources is from 2002, the sf.net page at http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/ has just links to "The UML Wiki" with an "It works!" default page in it and "The Old UML Site", and so on. 21:01:14 http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2006/09/13/user-mode-linux-and-skas0/ well, that's not new either, but I think that's the "skas mode with no patched kernel on the host" thing I thought existed. 21:01:40 Because I don't think there are skas3 patches for anything newer than 2.6.x. 21:03:24 Ah 21:05:04 -!- iano has joined. 21:05:26 -!- iano has left. 21:24:45 Vorpal: Incidentally, I added AVR in that quiz. 21:27:55 fizzie, huh, which variant of AVR is that 21:28:01 I coded for the ATMega128 iirc 21:30:02 fizzie, also it likes giving me the fake opcode "BR" a /lot/ 21:30:06 I got it 3 times in a row 21:30:36 Guess the instruction set is too small? 21:30:46 It's just "grep AVR_INSN avr.h | cut -c 11- | sed -e 's/,.*//' | sort | uniq". And it is quite small, yes. 21:31:36 Well I got 89% at best 21:31:46 More commonly around 85% 21:32:09 http://sprunge.us/aZaF it does seem quite fond of "br". 21:32:26 (That's a "uniq -c" on 100 generated opcodes.) 21:32:52 Possibly a shorter model order might've been better for this. 21:33:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:08:37 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 22:19:43 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 22:26:14 -!- conehead has joined. 22:39:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 22:42:42 gtristan: NULL values in columns take up one byte of disk space each, I think. 22:42:50 -!- zzo38 has left. 22:44:39 Vorpal: counterpoint: pigeons are awesome, screw you 22:44:50 some pigeons have made a nest behind a plastic fake owl at my house <3 22:45:00 the kind meant to keep birds away 22:46:09 Pigeons are not my favourite bird 22:46:28 what is your favourite bird 22:46:43 They don't seem to have been made to the same scale as any of the other birds that appear in my garden 22:46:53 kmc, I dunno, the blackbird, maybe? 22:47:04 [wiki] [[Talk:Universal Machine]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39226 * EzoLang * (+102) Possible duplicate 22:47:04 Or a coal tit? 22:47:13 Hold on that's new 22:47:38 When did HackEgo start doing that 22:47:57 this morning, maybe 22:48:13 yeah. 22:48:22 The song of the Australian Magpie is other-worldly 22:50:10 b_jonas: EzoLang seems to have a point 22:50:58 Taneb: how about seagulls 22:51:01 seagulls are good 22:51:07 for example i'm the best 22:51:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:51:24 Well, the seagulls around here feel out of place 22:51:27 * oerjan likes seagulls. better than crows, anyhow. 22:51:32 I'm 25 miles from the coast 22:51:37 oerjan: i heard that seagulls have a bad reputation in norway 22:53:06 shachaf: well people don't like to have them too close, all the time. 22:53:15 They have a bad reputation here 22:53:18 Pigeons too 22:53:20 they're noisy and vindictive during breeding season 22:53:48 And the geese at my uni are notorious 22:53:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 22:55:49 not much geese in trondheim that i know of, we see them flying in their V formation during migration 22:56:44 however somehow the noise of seagulls doesn't grate on me the same way crows do. 22:57:30 humans also tend to be noisy and vindictive during breeding season, which is all of the time. 23:09:36 i ended up getting chased by one of the geese at warwick 23:09:51 this was admittedly after i'd followed it around for a bit until it walked into a corner 23:10:30 never corner a goose 23:10:31 rookie mistake 23:11:10 Phantom_Hoover, how does it feel going to an inferior university in the all-important metric of duck to student ratio? 23:11:10 shortly after that i realised i was no longer following the goose; the goose was following me 23:11:23 Taneb, terrible 23:11:47 also there was a guy who got kicked out for, amongst other things, chasing a swan about the place last year 23:12:10 Someone tried to sell a swan to someone I know 23:12:33 I'm... not sure how they got it that far from the lake 23:16:22 copumpkin: the play was good 23:16:33 oh I'm glad! 23:16:42 I missed the second day of hac nyc anyway 23:16:49 but that too was pretty good 23:17:21 I need to get me to some of these 23:17:35 Wouldn't be too hard to do hac yc 23:17:57 Taneb: just go to zurihac 23:18:03 and/or bayhac 23:18:08 shachaf, I really want to but hoooteeel roooooms 23:18:18 Can I like stay with you in your Zurich apartment 23:18:35 i don't have a zurich apartment 23:18:52 i can't predict my zurischedule 23:19:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:22:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_(British_coin) 23:22:43 i like how batshit insane this is 23:22:52 With one of those I could afford a Zurich apartment! 23:23:01 'let's have a coin worth £1.05!' 23:30:03 Taneb: are you moving to zurich 23:30:26 Not in the near future 23:30:40 I still have the majority of an undergraduate degree to complete 23:31:07 But after that? Who knows! 23:31:11 I'll go where the wind takes me 23:32:06 i'd just remind you the earth is something like 4/5 ocean hth 23:32:44 I know people with boats, it's cushty 23:32:51 I'm 25 miles from the coast 23:33:06 i imagine that Taneb is p. wind-resistant 23:33:12 so it's probably ok 23:33:15 hm 70.8% says this link 23:37:16 i live p. close to the uk's pole of inaccessibility 23:37:18 it's not great 23:38:44 In holiday-time I live near England's pole of inaccessibility from roads 23:39:22 -!- bigbugkik has joined. 23:42:25 Hang on 23:42:29 Did... 23:42:35 Did I just use the word "cushty" 23:44:29 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:52:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 23:56:09 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:58:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:59:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: new cushtoms). 2014-04-07: 00:00:24 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:00:28 -!- tertu3 has joined. 00:10:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:11:47 "Hoon is real, but whether Hoon is for real is debatable." 00:32:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:33:43 -!- maurer_ has changed nick to maurer. 00:37:58 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:38:38 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:38:39 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:42:24 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:31:26 [wiki] [[ObjectArt]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39227&oldid=39036 * Ypnypn * (+167) /* Other numbers */ 01:49:26 What is that and why you put too much ^C codes on it? 01:51:27 it's wiki updates, of course. 01:53:00 when was that added 01:53:35 and ^C is the price you pay for not having colors in your client. you chose your road, now you pay the piper 01:55:30 this morning 01:59:43 I do have colors on my computer 02:00:13 And it still has too much regardless of that or not. 02:02:03 nah it's fine. the colors look nice. 02:02:14 less than `relcome has 02:02:58 Yes, at least is less than `relcome has. 02:05:54 I found a example code to make up a custom aggregate function in PostgreSQL. It looks like terrible to me! The syntax I implemented is clearly better (at least to me, it is). The PostgreSQL code is: CREATE FUNCTION append_id(TEXT, INTEGER) RETURNS TEXT AS ' SELECT CASE WHEN $2 = 0 THEN $1 ELSE $1 || '' '' || CAST($2 AS TEXT) END;' LANGUAGE 'sql' WITH (ISCACHABLE, ISSTRICT); CREATE AGGREGATE id_list ( SFUNC = append_id, BASETYPE = INTEGER, S 02:05:59 Would you call it terrible? 02:08:08 yes. but then all sql languages are terrible 02:09:49 I think SQLite is better. It doesn't have any CREATE FUNCTION built-in but I added one. 02:11:36 Is this way better? CREATE FUNCTION ID_LIST(X) ACCUMULATING(R = NULL SET TO COALESCE(R || ' ' || X,X)) AS COALESCE(R,''); 02:12:20 (You don't need it anyways, since SQLite has a "group_concat" function built-in which does this, but it is to demonstrate the example.) 02:13:01 quintopia: Why do you think SQL is terrible? 02:14:19 zzo38: it doesn't feel like programming. if you want to have a point-free query scheme for manipulating data, why not use a dataflow/concatenative language? 02:14:36 SQL isn't point-free... 02:14:42 not really anyway 02:15:01 not anymore. but that only makes it worse. 02:15:19 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:15:20 quintopia: SQL looks fine to do such thing, to me. At least SQLite is; procedural SQL and that stuff tends to be more terrible. 02:17:54 i also think bash looks ugly. perhaps that is influencing my judgment... 02:18:46 Maybe 02:24:08 It seems my syntax may not be suitable for some kinds of aggregate functions though; for that it may be useful to define an alternate syntax, which puts all input records in one temporary table which is accessed by the expression after "AS". For example, it might help if you want to calculate the median of a data set. 02:26:28 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:30:50 <3 foobar2000's gapless playback 02:32:47 "I don't like most of the music on Magnatune.com..... but you might" 02:33:08 you know even iTunes has done gapless playback for years now, right? 02:33:22 I never used iTunes 02:33:35 Heck, Winamp did it way back in the day. 02:34:03 I've used WinAmp... maybe I haven't used it with albums that need gapless playback (Ridin' the Faders and one particular Enya album) 02:34:44 Admittedly, all gapless playback fails horribly if done with not-well-encoded MP3 files. 02:35:05 Incidentally, Magnatune butchered Ridin' the Faders when it started inserting ads 02:35:07 :( 02:35:46 (MP3 files will have a bit of silence in them for padding) 02:36:59 i hear winamp really whupps the llama's ass 02:41:52 oerjan must have been asleep... 02:42:38 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:42:48 -!- HackEgo has joined. 02:50:09 [wiki] [[Cyclic tag system]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39228&oldid=39187 * Quintopia * (+1808) Undo revision 39187 by [[Special:Contributions/Oerjan|Oerjan]] ([[User talk:Oerjan|talk]]) (were you asleep when you did this?) 02:53:15 -!- jconn has joined. 02:54:25 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:59:11 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:04:00 -!- tertu has joined. 03:17:05 Did you read my latest Dungeons&Dragons recording that I typed yesterday? 03:28:51 Ugh, whenever I buy cup noodles, I go through a cycle of thinking that the 7-eleven clerk might think I'm poor, then feeling guilty about the previous thought 03:29:27 just buy them in industrial quantities from the manufacturer 03:29:52 Sgeo: It is highly unlikely the clerk even particularly cares. 03:30:09 Also, cup noodles are an indicator of either poverty *or laziness*. 03:30:16 I would think the clerk wouldn't (and shouldn't) care. 03:30:28 Also, I usually end up asking if I can use their hot water 03:30:54 But yeah. You are generally a very uninteresting part of their day. 03:33:55 Ok. I have had an awesome song on my computer since 2005, carried with me through a variety of systems, and I haven't heard it until now 03:33:58 At all, that I remember 03:34:03 I might not have remembered 03:34:04 Even if they do think of such thing, probably they don't care, and it wouldn't affect you, anyways. 03:37:07 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:50:46 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: SoniEx2). 03:51:09 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:56:08 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:56:20 -!- tertu has joined. 03:59:28 -!- tromp has joined. 04:12:27 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:13:06 -!- tertu has joined. 04:15:36 I need a better way to indicate which pieces of music are my favorites 04:15:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:16:05 -!- tromp has joined. 04:16:11 In the past, I've used KDE ... marker things (or maybe GNOME marker things), Windows shortcuts, and literally copy/pasting the file so that I get "Copy of ..." 04:16:21 Only the last one survived to this day 04:16:36 executable bits hth 04:17:52 I would question whether that would actually have survived to the present, but apparently I have last modified dates that have survived from 2005 04:25:39 http://archive.wired.com/robots.txt huh. 04:29:47 Move (or delete) the music you don't like. 04:49:59 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 04:58:09 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:58:27 -!- tertu has joined. 05:00:35 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 05:00:35 -!- ter2 has joined. 05:01:28 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 05:02:30 zzo38: The too many ^C codes are part of stock MediaWiki; they're from the IRCColourfulRCFeedFormatter of http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRCFeeds and there's no IRCColourlessRCFeedFormatter available. (Though I could have stripped the color codes off myself, I guess.) 05:25:57 Why didn't you just modify it? 05:29:39 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:31:50 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:45:36 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:04:24 -!- ^v has joined. 06:12:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:13:58 I saw no particular reason to, for the channel of `relcome and all. 06:17:50 Curious; the latest few recent changes have not been announced. 06:17:57 Didn't think it was *that* brittle. 06:19:39 Broken down it has, indeed. Strange. Even though the bridge bit is still running. 06:21:11 Oh, there's no HackEgo connected. 06:21:41 -!- HackEgo has joined. 06:21:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:22:27 I don't know what has broken the post-reconnection rejoin of HackEgo; I haven't touched that part. (And it rejoined after that one ping timeout up there, at 02:43 UTC, but not after the 02:55 UTC one.) 06:22:35 [wiki] testing, testing, 1, 2, 3 06:22:43 At least that part had not broken down. 06:38:33 -!- not^v has joined. 06:39:28 inlining a lambda into its caller is a kind of constant propagation 06:39:56 also, compression is learning 06:42:11 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:43:49 http://mushroomobserver.org/162974?q=1ttKN found & photographed by douglass_ in our backyard 06:47:21 difficult not to read as mushroom mob server 06:48:05 lazy is strict, right? 06:48:16 i saw that mushroom today 06:48:19 It just lies to the strictness analyzer? 06:49:51 shachaf: you could vote on what kind it is 07:23:06 technically the one you saw is not pictured though i might add a picture 07:23:16 it didn't turn out quite as well 07:23:54 http://www.mushroomexpert.com/major_groups.html here's a key you can use 07:27:11 http://www.mushroomexpert.com/abnormal.html 07:27:15 a three-headed morel! 07:39:02 I found an Agaricus with another perfectly formed cap growing right out of the top 07:39:06 didn't get a picture though 07:39:26 (this was on Mt. Sutro a bit before I found the Chicken of the Woods that I cloned.) 07:39:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:41:24 Bike: huh indeed 07:47:18 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:48:58 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 07:50:24 -!- Bike has joined. 07:50:43 whenever i shut down my computer the display totally goes to shit, it almost looks like snow 07:50:49 wonder if it's the weird proprietary drivers somehow 07:51:59 it's uploading nam-shubs thru yr. optic nerve 07:52:24 #badbios 07:54:50 oh shit 08:06:51 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:07:58 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:29:31 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:42:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:45:30 http://sprunge.us/dELU (paraphrasing from Finnish) well, that's a big change indeed. 08:51:50 :-) 08:53:37 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:53:45 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:57:36 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:58:34 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:58:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:03:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:04:09 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 09:04:20 `echo hi 09:04:20 hi 09:04:39 `echo ho 09:04:39 ho 09:04:45 It's off to work we go. 09:04:52 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:04:52 i'm not getting to the codu logs 09:05:11 WFM 09:05:28 (Stalker mode, at least.) 09:05:33 hm... 09:06:31 what is the name of that effect where things start working as soon as you get someone to look at it 09:06:51 (fine for me, as long as it gets me to the logs) 09:08:43 -!- vravn has joined. 09:10:43 -!- olsner has joined. 09:13:57 [wiki] [[Cyclic tag system]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39231&oldid=39229 * Oerjan * (+1) /* Example */ A paranoid test 09:14:41 I think it's called "the demo effect", at least in Finnish and hereabouts. 09:15:01 quintopia: my only explanation is that i somehow had two edit windows open, one only for the section and one for the whole article, and somehow pasted from vim into the wrong one 09:15:42 fizzie, the demo effect sounds like the other way round to me 09:15:51 ie, things stop working when you try to show them off 09:16:57 quintopia: that, and somehow missing my routine of checking my edits afterwards. maybe i _was_ asleep. 09:17:51 it's annoying when that effect happens to bugs I'm supposed to fix 09:20:36 Taneb: I think it's (at least occasionally) applied both ways, here; as in, also for bugs that stop "working" (start working) when you try to show them off. 09:20:58 I guess that makes sense 09:27:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 09:30:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:47:49 GG has an 4th wall breaking almost title-drop today :) 09:48:37 http://archive.wired.com/robots.txt huh. <-- i had to test one of those, didn't i :( 09:54:23 argh. http://esolangs.org/wiki/Universal_Machine and http://esolangs.org/wiki/UM-32 are duplicates. I didn't search carefully enough. 09:54:44 how should I clean these up? should I merge the former into the latter? 09:55:16 yeah i think UM-32 is a better name 09:55:33 but where's that name from? is it mentioned somewhere in the task description? 09:55:43 ah indeed 09:55:52 http://boundvariable.org/um-spec.txt says "Object: UM-32 "Universal Machine"" 09:57:50 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 10:03:53 -!- bigbugkik has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:51 [wiki] [[UM-32]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39232&oldid=25362 * B jonas * (+1066) 10:10:28 [wiki] [[Talk:Universal Machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39233&oldid=39226 * B jonas * (+107) 10:10:48 [wiki] [[Universal Machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39234&oldid=39191 * B jonas * (-1201) Redirected page to [[UM-32]] 10:11:18 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39235&oldid=39209 * B jonas * (-24) 10:12:48 i can see this getting annoying with those people who edit articles in tiny steps 10:13:04 It'll probably break down far before that. 10:13:12 hmm, is this the first instance of a bot with a useful function for this channel? 10:13:27 fungot: Did you hear that?! 10:13:27 fizzie: mr papayannakis, is going to deal with it seriously with socio-economic accompaniment measures which, if implemented, will offer a referendum to the national data protection authorities, according to whether the us measures, which are normally very small and the large export capacity of many developing countries. 10:14:35 -!- boily has joined. 10:14:53 hoily 10:15:43 olsner: you so mean 10:16:31 `welcome.es is useful isn't it 10:16:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcome.es: not found 10:16:49 `bienvenido 10:16:50 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 10:17:05 helooodl! 10:17:33 today is «journée d'élections»! 10:19:08 Today, the university main building had Finnish flags in the set of five flagpoles beside the main entrance, as opposed to the silly colorful university flags they usually do. 10:19:13 So it's probably some sort of a day. 10:20:10 fizzie: clearly celebrating canadian journée d'élections 10:20:18 Though I don't think I saw flags out there generally, so maybe it's something more specific. 10:20:49 [wiki] [[User:Nooodl/test]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39236 * Nooodl * (+2) Created page with "hi" 10:21:12 maybe User: namespace edits shouldn't be reported 10:21:33 "International Bird Migration Day in Costa Rica" it's probably not that 10:21:46 they'd not use finnish flags then 10:22:00 The feed functionality didn't really have any options. Other than to hide bot edits, but I guess we don't have any wikibots? 10:22:29 fungot: are you a wikibot? 10:22:30 boily: madam president, please allow me to make one observation and three recommendations. as i have already referred to some of you have referred to, which may be suffered by women on account of support from the structural reform process laid down in the wait-and-see policy and the activities of the paramilitaries' involvement in the support of all current internal investigations involving allegations of fraud and irregulariti 10:22:34 Could add a d in the sed, I guess. 10:22:47 oerjan: that's the day they can air the flags without worrying because the birds will be away ;) 10:23:26 fizzie: well during major spam runs we sometimes turn on the bot flag to make them disappear. but that only works in afterthought. 10:23:27 it's a congress bot now. 10:23:40 *disappear from recent changes 10:24:39 Speaking of which, is Freefall now going to turn into a month of heated debate? 10:24:53 good question 10:25:08 no, i think it'll be at least 3 months hth 10:26:10 i guess it might be alternating with sam and florence 10:26:33 so make that a year of on-off debate. 10:27:20 Ah, first we have to rehash all of Asimov's logic tricks. 10:27:42 Oh well, let's wait and see. 10:28:18 Maybe Dr. Bowman gets a chance to make an appearance and save the day. That could be fun. 10:29:14 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 10:29:39 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39237&oldid=38919 * Nooodl * (-59486) /* Implementations */ move to separate article 10:30:21 I guess it's even borderline possible that the wiki notices might get more people work on it? 10:30:58 [wiki] [[Deadfish implementations]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39238 * Nooodl * (+59587) Created page with "Implementations of the '''[[Deadfish]]''' language. Some of these implementations may not be considered fully compliant, sometimes because an implementor has implemented the ..." 10:32:38 nooodl: eek 10:32:46 you are ruining years of tradition here 10:33:38 is the tradition to stretch out the deadfish page to ridiculous lengths!! 10:33:45 also the number of implementations is the most impressive part of the deadfish page 10:33:48 yes! 10:34:14 "The language defined by the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme" 10:34:26 what if they revise it again, will you add another entry? 10:34:42 they already did. and are doing it again. 10:35:25 but the implementation is in R5RS 10:36:02 (whether there are any changes that would break it in later ones, i don't know) 10:36:54 R⁷RS is getting to be pretty close to finished, these days. 10:38:51 `unidecode ⁷ 10:38:51 ​[U+2077 SUPERSCRIPT SEVEN] 10:41:24 Shouldn't've been fancy, I see. 10:43:07 I see dead superscript sevens... 10:50:19 -!- password2 has joined. 11:02:00 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CITIZEN CHICKEN). 11:04:15 speaking of deadfish: i ~omg optimized~ the hello world, and also generalized it 11:04:51 http://sprunge.us/EJAQ like so 11:57:28 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:58:39 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:59:56 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 12:09:00 -!- yorick has joined. 12:15:50 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:23:50 -!- augur has joined. 12:30:15 nooodl: we might as well delete the deadfish article if it isn't filled with implementations 12:38:38 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:41:21 elliott: should i put 'em back? 12:41:38 well, arguable. I mean, it is deadfish 12:49:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:50:35 . o O ( clearly there should be two pages, one with, and one without the implementations, in addition to the separate page of implementations, just to satisfy all tastes. ) 12:56:49 Also one empty page with neither the implementations, nor the language. 13:03:09 and one stub with all the [citation needed] annotations. 13:12:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:17:27 -!- S1 has joined. 13:20:48 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 13:27:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 13:37:16 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 13:37:46 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:37:47 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 13:38:47 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:52:30 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 14:15:22 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 14:23:53 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:24:47 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 14:28:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:32:10 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:36:31 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:36:49 @faq 14:36:55 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 14:38:24 Oh I meant to change that. 14:38:46 change why? 14:38:53 @where faq 14:38:53 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 14:39:37 That seems to be a slightly more useful reply. 14:39:59 Less cheeky. 14:40:33 -!- Sellyme has changed nick to BenignAardvark. 14:40:46 -!- BenignAardvark has changed nick to Sellyme. 14:43:13 int-e: enjoy all the whining you get in #haskell for it :) 14:44:01 elliott: when was the last time you saw @faw being used on #haskell? My backlog isn't long enough ... 14:44:08 @faq even 14:44:08 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 14:44:18 lambdabot: oh shuddup. 14:44:48 int-e: I don't know, I left. but people made lots of sad faces at me just for saying I'd make @faq do that, when it was being used unhelpfully like once a day. 14:44:54 even in -ops :p 14:45:18 maybe the problem has gotten better. 14:45:36 I'm inclined to silently change it and wait for the complaints. 14:45:50 But it can wait for the ghc 7.8 update. 14:46:21 run on GHC HEAD! it'll be more exciting 14:47:15 thanks, no. 14:47:29 up to a month ago half of the dependencies didn't even build 14:47:53 -!- john_metcalf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:47:54 (I was surprised to find last weekend that they do build now) 14:53:51 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 14:58:06 :-) 15:02:18 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.mozilla.devel.platform/7648 hell yeah 15:03:40 and all I needed for getting lambdabot to compile was a role annotation in a hs-boot file: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/dc7ee36480a3e2b4e1b25d0022de72b764029bf7 15:06:15 Hmm. Should I feel bad about abusing this channel for talking about lambdabot? 15:06:36 have you noticed how little we talk about esolangs? 15:06:59 Of course. 15:08:18 I have written much code for lambdabot. Unfortunately the reference implementation changes often. 15:08:48 couldn't you just have @faq say both 15:09:06 @dice d20 15:09:06 int-e: 11 15:09:08 no. 15:09:41 @faq couldn't you just have @faq say both 15:09:41 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 15:10:37 i doubt that question is asked frequently 15:11:31 What are you, a frequentist? 15:11:33 If I wanted random answers I'd change @faq into an 8ball clone. 15:13:19 if you want an 8-ball, /msg perlbot 8ball your question here 15:13:42 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:14:01 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 15:14:20 Despite Pugs I still believe that using Perl is against the spirit of Haskell. 15:14:45 If you want an 8-ball, wait a random period of time and ask #haskell whether you can retrieve the IO from an IO String 15:15:11 Jafet: That sounds like a viable approach. 15:15:33 Jafet: Assuming you meant to retrieve the String. 15:15:50 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:15:52 @quote IO.from 15:15:53 No quotes match. You untyped fool! 15:16:20 @quote monochrom IO.String 15:16:21 monochrom says: How do I extract the IO out of IO String? 15:16:49 Oh. Typical monochrom there. 15:17:15 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:36:48 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:38:28 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 15:40:02 -!- tromp has joined. 15:41:40 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:42:23 -!- tromp has joined. 15:43:27 -!- nucular has joined. 15:46:36 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:30:01 Do you play a computer game "Sub-EBCDIC ZZT Village Part II"? 16:30:14 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:34:35 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 16:44:34 -!- ^v has joined. 16:54:24 `olist (948) 16:54:25 olist (948): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 17:00:09 Remember: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. 17:01:30 <^v> \o/ the barely wiki page is wrong, also the brainfuck conversions are now wrong 17:01:45 <^v> Y u no test. 17:02:43 Then you should fix it please. 17:02:59 -!- S1 has joined. 17:03:08 -!- S1 has left. 17:13:58 [wiki] [[Talk:MarioLANG]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39239&oldid=37562 * T.J.S.1 * (+119) correction about 99bottles program 17:21:18 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 17:39:23 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 17:55:28 idea i had: can you perform any calculations using the functions and constants in python's "math" module 17:55:57 looks like A+B is pow(hypot(sqrt(A),sqrt(B)),trunc(gamma(pi))) 18:00:33 reasonable 18:00:47 A*B is log(pow(exp(A),B)) and A+B is log(exp(A)*exp(B)) is log(log(pow(exp(exp(A)),exp(B)))) but that hits floating-point range errors pretty soon. 18:00:55 It can compute 1+2 but not 5+7. 18:02:45 2+3 is still okay, too, and only involves 2.851123567946167e+64 as an intermediate number. 18:04:46 does "math" allow you to specify a base for log? i know mpmath does. if so, you can use 1.0000000000001 as a base and add large numbers too 18:14:02 -!- chaiomanot has left ("Leaving"). 18:14:44 It does, yes. 18:14:53 (That is a true.) 18:17:13 log_a(b) = log(b)/log(a) (where _ indicates a subscript) 18:18:01 int-e: / is not in the module 18:18:37 Though since you can give base as an argument, maybe that's a way to do A/B. 18:18:40 >>> log(log(pow(pow(1.0000000000001,pow(1.0000000000001,17)),pow(1.0000000000001,13)),1.0000000000001),1.0000000000001) 18:18:43 0.0 18:18:44 Has some round-off problems, though. 18:18:48 >>> log(log(pow(pow(1.001,pow(1.001,17)),pow(1.001,13)),1.001),1.001) 18:18:48 30.00000000004227 18:18:52 That's quite close. 18:18:54 tan(atan2(A,B)) works sometimes! 18:19:19 quintopia: I missed the significance of the quotes. 18:19:32 * int-e goes back to reading webcomics. 18:20:57 fizzie: a power of -1 seems to be the obvious way to do A/B. i would expect less error. 18:23:11 also the "gimmick" is you have to construct your constants from functions and math.e and math.pi!! 18:26:06 @run π 18:26:07 Not in scope: `π' 18:31:24 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:35:35 nooodl: well, that pretty much bars you from doing large numbers. 18:37:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:42:08 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:44:04 >>> b = tanh(e); log(log(pow(pow(b,pow(b,17)),pow(b,13)),b),b) 18:44:04 30.000000000000284 18:44:07 That's not too shabby. 18:44:20 Though summing via hypot is much more sane, I'm not arguing against that. 18:44:29 (tanh is a nice way to get numbers close to one.) 18:45:35 hmm didn't think of that 18:47:59 I assume you'd count fsum((A,B)) cheating? 18:48:52 yeah (imo forming tuples isn't in the module) 18:49:11 fsum(frexp(1)) though 18:53:41 i've been thinking about having an esolang that gives you complex built-ins and forces you to build simple things through creative use of them 18:58:28 there was that language on the wiki recently 19:02:06 http://esolangs.org/wiki/SELECT. hm! 19:06:02 [wiki] [[SELECT.]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39240&oldid=38622 * Quintopia * (-1) /* Etymology */ grammar and spelling 19:08:33 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 19:11:07 mmm food 19:11:15 time to get ready for work 19:13:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:15:45 -!- conehead has joined. 19:17:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:48:24 what's that red M. minor edit? 19:49:28 -!- Mortape123 has joined. 19:50:16 -!- Mortape123 has quit (Client Quit). 19:50:29 Yes. 19:50:48 Nice to have it bright red like that, so that you don't miss any of those minor edits. 19:52:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:53:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:53:13 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:55:54 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 20:03:59 verily 20:05:31 -!- elliott_ has joined. 20:09:37 `coins 20:09:39 nandcoin schecoin mailaxcoin biltcoin shinycoin checoin knglycoin biecoin percoin ~coin birdhmentalkcoin ooetiocoin gultermanaxatificularycogschcoin firecoin bulocoin rel-petcoin gottcoin henetidadcoin leszecoin congcoin 20:09:55 kind of want HackEgo to join ##crypto just for that 20:10:17 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 20:10:18 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 20:10:43 -!- fizzie has joined. 20:14:08 maybe you could arrange for `coins to temporarily join ##crypto, dump that, then leave 20:15:20 (but I suspect the connections to IRC are managed outside the sandbox in a way that makes that messy) 20:16:06 i hope so 20:16:22 olsner: You are a correct. 20:16:26 Make a bot that tunnels coinage to the other channel 20:17:43 My hard drive is almost full so I am going to get a new one 20:17:49 That is much larger 20:18:39 it's a trap, the new disk will also run out of space 20:19:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_code#Related_terms I feel that the images here really help illustrating the concept 20:19:13 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:19:23 Taneb: I did that, and now the hard disk in this desktop is so large, the disk for backups is having space problems. 20:19:50 Indeed. And it will take you longer to move off larger disks. It's like gravity. 20:19:50 fizzie, I solve that problem by not caring about anything enough to back it up 20:20:40 Any recommendations for hard-drive? 20:20:54 recommend a good one 20:21:14 FireFly: hmm, most of those read like "good" code according to that article 20:21:48 if lasagna code is "well-defined and separable layers", what's the term for code that is just layers everywhere? 20:22:45 FWIW, I bought a pair of "Seagate Barracuda ST3000DM001 3TB" disks for this desktop, because I've heard bad things about probably every (mainstream) brand, and it's all a crapshoot anyway. 20:23:07 There's supermarket microwave oven lasagna code, which is when your layers leak into each other and there is an odd smell in the background. 20:23:08 fizzie, I've heard they have problems with reliability 20:23:09 The last paragraph of the lasagna code section mentions how it could also be an anti-pattern if overdone 20:23:19 Taneb: I've heard that said of everything, though. 20:23:29 fizzie: there are two mainstream brands, so you may have indeed heard about all of them 20:24:16 Jafet: There used to be more, though. 20:25:19 There are the "green" disks, where most of the bad things you hear are actually true. Then there are the "black" ones which most people use. 20:25:45 WD also has enough other colours to start a gay pride parade but most of them are just product binning. 20:26:15 I think Seagate dropped the "green" nomenclature. 20:27:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:27:43 Looking at the Seagate section of the local shop, there's just other arbitrary terms ("Constellation", "Enterprise Capasity Series", "NAS", ...) now. 20:28:06 Also the middle one was spelled "Enterprice" here. Trying to hint at something, perhaps. 20:28:32 Or maybe it's the c from "capacity". 20:28:38 Perhaps you get to choose. 20:29:00 hinting that the shop owner doesn't spell well? 20:29:29 olsner: It's the biggest e-retailer in all of Finland, I think. 20:29:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkkokauppa.com Notable enough for Wikipedia, yet can't spell. 20:32:02 well, seagate spells it normally afaict 20:32:10 They seem to, yes. 20:32:19 The product links also have it right there in the URL. 20:33:05 WD has 3TB drives in "Green", "Purple", "Red", "Se" and "Black", and I'm wondering what kind of color "Se" is. 20:33:19 Oh, it's short for Server. 20:33:44 -!- hexagon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:34:22 experts recommend buying a whole rainbow of drives 20:36:40 Oh, not a selenium hard drive 20:37:10 "WD Green Power -malleissa yhdistyy tehokkuus, luotettavuus ja ennen kaikkea virransäästö." "WD Purple-malleissa yhdistyy tehokkuus ja ennenkaikkea luotettavuus." "WD Red-malleissa yhdistyy tehokkuus, luotettavuus ja ennen kaikkea virransäästö." "WD Se-malleissa yhdistyy tehokkuus ja ennenkaikkea luotettavuus." "WD:n uudistuneessa Black -kovalevysarjassa yhdistyy huippuluokan ... 20:37:16 ... suorituskyky ja luotettavuus." Well, it's good that they're well differentiated, at least. 20:38:05 oh, Selenium comes in several colors. Neat. 20:38:55 -!- Guest652 has joined. 20:39:15 -!- Guest652 has changed nick to hexagon. 20:50:23 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:02:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:30 If you need more than one drive you can get each one different color, to tell apart. 21:13:00 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 21:13:17 -!- Sellyme has joined. 21:25:09 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:39:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 21:48:12 -!- boily has joined. 21:56:16 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:56:33 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 22:11:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 22:41:12 [wiki] [[User:Rdebath]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39241&oldid=39221 * Rdebath * (+557) /* Performance Matrix */ 22:42:03 -!- rodgort has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)). 22:42:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:59 -!- rodgort has joined. 23:20:03 -!- augur has joined. 23:21:02 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:21:25 -!- augur has joined. 23:33:53 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:33:55 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:48:42 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Quojil * New user account 2014-04-08: 00:01:38 -!- tromp has joined. 00:02:14 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:02:38 -!- tromp has joined. 00:17:08 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:30:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:33:35 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:34:35 Now I fixed it so that filters in PHIRC (this IRC client) is allowed to include regular expressions if it starts with a forward slash. 00:36:38 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: ZZoon). 00:55:55 http://www.qdb.us/305734 that kinda reminds me of zzo 00:56:21 :D 00:57:00 :-D 01:06:29 [wiki] [[Indirect]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39242 * Quojil * (+2214) Initial documentation 01:08:49 -!- monotone has quit (Quit: restart). 01:09:49 -!- monotone has joined. 01:11:24 [wiki] [[Indirect]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39243&oldid=39242 * Quojil * (+267) Specifications & another edit to only example... for now. 01:11:53 [wiki] [[Dogescript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39244&oldid=38025 * 216.38.135.42 * (+73) /* External Resources */ 01:12:06 [wiki] [[Indirect]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39245&oldid=39243 * Quojil * (+0) /* How is it different */ 01:14:40 [wiki] [[Indirect]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39246&oldid=39245 * Quojil * (+16) Modified example again and fixed typo. 01:15:58 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39247&oldid=39235 * Quojil * (+15) /* I */ 01:23:47 The Onion's Kelly is losing his grip 01:23:56 The villain of the cartoon isn't covered in flies 01:25:35 @run let reify = flip id; reflect = id in reify 6 (\p -> reflect p + reflect p) 01:25:36 12 01:26:28 I am so tired of that example, it doesn't clarify anything 01:26:54 I think what I want is an example of, e.g., passing around a username+password known only at runtime 01:27:10 http://lpaste.net/66715 01:27:30 ty 01:27:32 * Sgeo starts reading 01:29:31 <^v> my kitteh is so flufffie 01:29:46 Oh, so you can create the proxy out of thin air... I guess ScopedTypeVariables is needed to do that? 01:30:49 no. you can do it in other ways too. 01:31:12 Now, if only this were someplace more obvious than some random paste that you get linked to if you ask the right question... 01:31:16 ScopedTypeVariables is never or at least only very rarely necessary, afaik. 01:31:25 reflection ships with more examples. 01:33:30 The phantom type parameter in Report and Datum are strictly necessary, or not? 01:34:24 you would not want to eliminate them. they provide type safety. 01:34:42 you can mix multiple configurations in one program and they are tagged with the type. it is just like putting the configuration itself into the type. 01:35:05 if you eliminate the type parameter, then you just have to add Proxy arguments, but e.g. that Num instance would not be possible. 01:36:08 you can e.g., have (Int `Mod` n) where you can think of the n "phantom" type as actually just a natural 01:36:22 (and you can make instances so that you can use a TypeLit natural as an "n" there, as well as supporting runtime decision of n) 01:36:56 btw, all of this is in the paper, if you read it 01:37:24 I know the paper has an example of using it for modulus arithmetic... 01:37:45 the 6 example is pretty lol 01:37:54 well, it should help clarify. 01:38:01 it's a good paper 01:39:03 I like seeing a lot of examples. I think yours was the most helpful so far, but... I still wish it was someplace more accessible 01:40:47 I hereby release it under the CC0 1.0 Universal terms, available at https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode. 01:40:57 feel free to submit a patch to add it; I'd prefer no credit in the source. 01:41:31 Awesome 01:42:37 (better quote those two lines in the pull request so there's no legal lawyering.) 01:44:28 or maybe I should GPL it just to be a pain. (too late now.) 01:46:56 What should I call the file? I have a feeling you may not like the name ReaderLike.hs 01:47:46 psh it's in public domain fuck elliott_ 01:48:03 ElliottSucksLol.hs 01:48:06 pretty much, do what you like with it :p 01:48:37 I don't want credit because I just wrote it ad-hoc and nobody should feel like I have creative rights over it. 01:48:41 feel free to improve it. 01:49:05 I tried to copy/paste your lines, they got eaten 01:50:28 hm is the "available at https://creativecommons.org/..." legally required 01:51:17 i don't think you people understand the public domain very well 01:52:40 i could take the code and tattoo it on my ass and sell photos of the ass and musical compositions based on the ass to Disney and elliott_ couldn't do shit. 01:53:10 nooodl: I don't think there's any clear standard. I think what I said is unambiguous enough for any court. 01:53:33 Sgeo: eaten...? well, just say you got permission from me to use it under CC0. 01:53:46 Bike: Unless some country says that elliott_ isn't allowed to give permission away like that 01:53:54 I think that's why CC0 exists 01:54:00 too bad. taht's an ass state 01:54:05 CC0 still probably doesn't work everywhere. 01:54:08 GPL probably doesn't. 01:55:19 CC0 probably works in more jurisdictions than GPL. 01:56:36 And it certainly works in more jurisdictions than a generic public domain grant. :) 01:57:24 i only use the wtfpl personally 01:57:47 The WTFPL probably doesn't work in a decent handful of jurisdictions, though it definitely does under common law. 01:58:08 that's the beauty of it: fuck those jurisdictionsssss 01:58:09 how can the wtfpl fail to work 01:58:41 nooodl: e.g. some countries don't let you just give away your rights without something in return like that 01:59:04 my attitudes towards law is like a billion times more lackadaisical than most programmers and i love it 01:59:56 A sampling of github suggests it's actually much less lackadaisical than most programmers. 02:00:08 The typical repo on github is unlicensed. :) 02:00:30 The WTFPL might not work in all jurisdictions, but it definitely is a legal copyright license. 02:02:33 "In May 2005, Daniel Wallace filed suit against the Free Software Foundation in the Southern District of Indiana, contending that the GPL is an illegal attempt to fix prices (at zero)." nice 02:02:59 "Defendants argued that since it is impossible to maintain trade secrets while being compliant with GPL and distributing the work, they are not in breach of trade secrets" this is some good stuff 02:10:16 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:36:31 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:50:14 -!- aloril has joined. 03:01:53 elliott_: I'm starting to think you're right about trusting random Haskell over OpenSSL (not really... if it gets as many eyes looking at it as OpenSSL, then definitely... but the OpenSSL bug is really just anecdotal evidence, I think?) 03:02:56 when have programmers ever used non-anecdotal evidence? 03:04:06 I heard a programmer use non-anecdotal evidence just the other day 03:25:48 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:36:33 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:39:54 Bike: note that you can't conversely take Disney's stuff, because CTEA and 93/98/EEC 03:40:41 my ass will hae to wait 03:41:02 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:43:09 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:44:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:55:26 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:01:35 `coins 04:01:37 2.74coin epitcoin hoycoin altiverowcoin rainfrecoin pathcoin alighcoin relcoin undanicasmicoin halfhacoin calcoin etercoin rencoin returncoin minocoin crading-booker)coin vollicoin gartrethintynskinguissioncoin sublecoin nnrcoin 04:03:57 numberwangcoin 04:06:52 -+ 04:08:52 I remember eating fish once, I don't remember what kind of fish 04:08:59 Flounder? Is that a fish people eat 04:09:00 ? 04:10:25 https://twitter.com/RUST_HULK/status/453294938763976704 of course 04:12:41 * kmc has null-routed twitter locally 04:14:52 -!- tertu3 has joined. 04:14:53 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:16:41 OOOOOOOH https://github.com/chrisdone/foreign-store 04:17:14 Blah, looks less smooth than in, say, CL or Smalltalk 04:17:22 Still, better than DrRacket 04:20:04 what the 04:20:08 I'm afraid 04:20:53 https://github.com/chrisdone/ghci-reload-demo 04:23:12 "I shouldn’t have to tell anyone this but just in case: don’t use this in production." 04:23:13 aww 04:24:45 using a live image as production seems bad anyway... 04:25:32 What do Erlangers do? 04:25:47 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:26:23 -!- tromp has joined. 04:26:25 "oh yeah, use me in production" 04:26:41 i'm not ready to enter this porn dimension. 04:30:54 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:33:42 Wikipedia doesn't have Heartbleed yet 04:34:05 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openssl#Heartbleed_bug ? 04:35:00 And that's what I get for assuming that Wikipedia search works 04:35:17 "known to attackers since March 2012." 04:35:18 wtf 04:35:19 ♫ learnin' a lesson ♫ 04:35:32 learnin on a wish 04:36:39 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:37:12 -!- aloril has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:38:07 * kmc restarts irssi and his EC2 instance 04:38:09 21:38:09 up 186 days, 3:48, 6 users, load average: 0.57, 0.22, 0.12 04:38:11 :'( 04:38:16 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:39:14 the end of an era 04:40:22 -!- tomsmeding has joined. 04:41:18 -!- tomsmeding has left. 04:41:24 -!- kmc has joined. 04:41:56 `coins 04:41:58 hebdcoin continucoin reding-boocoin clunkcoin illghcoin codifycoin singcoin rcelumcoin spoohcoin emmertcoin yourcoin q-refcoin temcoin etaincoin proofcoin haowcoin recuncoin nonicoin murprincoin apocoin 04:42:38 beep boop 04:42:49 -!- ineiros has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:43:50 -!- ineiros has joined. 04:47:30 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:51:41 [wiki] [[Talk:MarioLANG]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39248&oldid=39239 * T.J.S.1 * (+440) Interpreter 04:52:58 http://www.antichipotle.com/git/ 04:53:22 Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at www.antichipotle.com. 04:54:35 -!- aloril has joined. 04:57:04 * quintopia isn't using a vulnerable ssh. phew. 04:57:18 there's a ssh vuln too? 04:58:26 oh wait. i think i misread that :P 04:59:05 i should have said 04:59:10 i'm not using a vulnerable SSL 04:59:18 i never made it to version 1.0.1 04:59:24 what if my password is my birthday 05:03:12 Bike: I don't care if it is or not. (Hopefully your date of birth doesn't change; I don't expect such things ever to change!!) 05:09:27 i wish my birthday got one year later every year 05:09:58 zzo38: what if the calendar changes? 05:14:08 kmc: Then, you can write it in the new notation/calendar-based-system. 05:14:57 Already there is different kind of calendar, but Gregorian calendar is a common kind (and so is UNIX). 05:15:19 But you can figure out using, Discordian calendar instead, if you prefer to do so. 05:15:20 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 05:18:21 Fun fact: esolangs.org had Debian wheezy installed, but the line for security updates was for squeeze (oldstable)... 05:18:36 (sources.list line, that is.) 05:26:48 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:36:18 -!- password2 has joined. 05:59:40 [wiki] [[Kolmogorov machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39249&oldid=24661 * 99.118.9.187 * (+24) /* See Also */ 06:02:01 The Andrei Machine is the best 06:03:00 Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the heartbleed thing works? 06:03:03 the site is not super clear 06:06:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 06:16:36 [wiki] [[Kolmogorov machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39250&oldid=39249 * 99.118.9.187 * (+146) Я не говорю по-русски 06:28:55 "Responsible disclosure (n.): coming up with a cool logo, homepage and name for your terrifying bug before panicking the Internet with it" 06:32:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:45:25 Oh, the company behind that thing (Codenomicon) is originally Finnish. 06:45:54 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:49:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 07:01:14 Heh, kind of funny: StartSSL provides certificates for free, but asks a $24.90 "handling fee" for revocation. 07:04:24 -!- `^_^v has joined. 07:05:23 "Not a classy industry, is it?" "It ranks slightly behind three-card monty but two spots ahead of straight daytime flashing" 07:06:22 lexande sometimes claims to be an X.509 certificate authority but he won't give me a cert 07:07:43 I was hoping for this DANE thing to get popularly supported (it's not like a free StartSSL certificate "validates" anything else than a domain name either), but it doesn't seem like it. 07:12:25 kmc: i suspect honest lexande may be too honest to be an X.509 certificate authority 07:17:50 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:25:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:30:12 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:30:12 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:44:50 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 08:58:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:01:22 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:03:53 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:16:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:16:56 -!- conehead has joined. 09:18:38 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:23:08 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:24:19 "error: command failed: non-zero return code: -11" 09:24:25 It's good to have verbose diagnostics. 09:25:07 someone turned that command down to eleven 09:29:30 -!- yorick has joined. 09:30:15 It seems to be a segfault, actually. 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[wiki] [[Talk:MarioLANG]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39251&oldid=39248 * Oerjan * (+103) /* Interpreter */ Of course 10:07:23 -!- scoff has joined. 10:09:11 -!- yorick has joined. 10:12:16 HackEgo++ 10:12:18 [wiki] [[Kolmogorov machine]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39252&oldid=39250 * Oerjan * (+23) bullets, and spell Russian title with Russian letters 10:12:20 I like the wiki edits 10:13:38 eep 10:14:52 tomorrow: DMM's new comic 10:14:52 That is, I like that HackEgo posts them 10:15:01 oerjan, oh god I forgot about that 10:15:18 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 10:15:43 he has revealed a hint that the name is a tv trope 10:16:42 I've stopped following the IWC rerun :( 10:17:03 Might try to get back into it 10:17:05 well this was in the forum. 10:17:18 I haven't been there for aaaageees 10:17:48 he also said "This will narrow things down quite a bit:" i smell irony 10:18:04 That sounds more like sarcasm 10:18:21 OKAY 10:18:32 * oerjan is vague on those fine distinctions 10:18:48 I just assume that nothing is irony 10:18:57 I know what dramatic irony and metallurgic irony are 10:19:52 -!- myndzi has joined. 10:19:53 i googled that and the most promising hit was tvtropes 10:20:07 (metallurgic) 10:20:08 Metallurgic irony is "sort of like iron" 10:24:02 -!- boily has joined. 10:26:45 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 10:26:49 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 10:26:53 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 10:26:53 -!- samebchase has quit (*.net *.split). 10:26:57 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 10:26:59 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:03 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:07 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:08 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:12 -!- tromp__ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:14 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:18 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:18 -!- JZTech101 has quit (*.net *.split). 10:27:20 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (*.net *.split). 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joined. 10:40:16 -!- yorick has joined. 10:40:16 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:40:36 -!- mroman has joined. 10:40:39 -!- aloril has joined. 10:43:37 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 11:08:45 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DEGOVERNMENTED CHICKEN). 11:15:55 "checking for gcc... icc" "checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes" hmm. 11:25:09 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 11:42:59 heh 11:47:09 :-) 11:47:41 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:54:44 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:59:27 -!- realzies has joined. 12:00:12 -!- variable has joined. 12:07:51 -!- tromp has joined. 12:12:01 -!- password2 has joined. 12:13:43 -!- Guest49575 has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 12:13:49 -!- elliott has joined. 12:14:09 -!- elliott has quit (Client Quit). 12:14:17 -!- elliott has joined. 12:15:23 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:15:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:16:00 -!- tromp has 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augur has joined. 14:29:50 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:31:46 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:32:26 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 14:32:45 -!- Melvar has joined. 14:37:37 `run echo $'!\xAA1\xB2xM|;b\xD1\x15\xA3\x0C\x18:\xB0I\xA7\x1F\xB6\xCE\xD4~\x161\xAD\xF4\xB8k$\x0C\xCA\xE8\xE8b\x97\xE3\xE3\x95Yly\x05\xD3\x9F\x1E\xAC\xEC\xBA\x9E\x86=\xBD\x13\xDF\xBCd\x8C\xEEdo\x93\x8F\xB9\x97\xCD_\xE6\xAA\xD3}Z\xAB\x17\xC5\xFB+\xE8i\x1A\xB1~\xC1\xA7\xD6|$\x7F\x92\x19\xBF\x94\xF6\xD7\xE6\x0E\xA4E\xF3\xCD\x97q'\''C\x07k\xBD1T&\xCA\x84#\x8B,x\x86\xCE\xF6\x19\xE6\xB6\xAC' | dis86 14:37:38 No output. 14:37:49 `run dis86 $'!\xAA1\xB2xM|;b\xD1\x15\xA3\x0C\x18:\xB0I\xA7\x1F\xB6\xCE\xD4~\x161\xAD\xF4\xB8k$\x0C\xCA\xE8\xE8b\x97\xE3\xE3\x95Yly\x05\xD3\x9F\x1E\xAC\xEC\xBA\x9E\x86=\xBD\x13\xDF\xBCd\x8C\xEEdo\x93\x8F\xB9\x97\xCD_\xE6\xAA\xD3}Z\xAB\x17\xC5\xFB+\xE8i\x1A\xB1~\xC1\xA7\xD6|$\x7F\x92\x19\xBF\x94\xF6\xD7\xE6\x0E\xA4E\xF3\xCD\x97q'\''C\x07k\xBD1T&\xCA\x84#\x8B,x\x86\xCE\xF6\x19\xE6\xB6\xAC' 14:37:50 No output. 14:38:16 `run dis86 $'\x90\x90' 14:38:17 No output. 14:38:23 Oh wait 14:38:29 `run dis86 9090 14:38:30 nop; nop; 14:41:55 `run dis86 aa21b2314d783b7cd162a315180cb03aa749b61fd4ce167ead31b8f4246bca0ce8e89762e3e35995 14:41:56 stosb; and [rdx+0x3b784d31], esi; jl 0xffffffda; invalid; mov [0xb649a73ab00c1815], eax; invalid; invalid; invalid; invalid; jle 0xffffffc6; xor [rax-0x3594db0c], edi; or al, 0xe8; call 0xffffffffe3e362bd; pop rcx; xchg ebp, eax; 14:42:55 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:45:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:45:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:45:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 14:45:16 -!- glogbot has joined. 14:45:16 [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp 14:45:22 -!- TodPunk has joined. 14:45:23 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:45:29 -!- clog has joined. 14:45:47 -!- ejls has joined. 14:45:58 -!- olsner has joined. 14:46:53 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 14:48:54 -!- int-e has joined. 14:49:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:50:23 -!- maurer has joined. 14:50:40 [wiki] [[Indirect]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39255&oldid=39246 * 76.94.2.75 * (+383) /* "operations" */ 14:51:32 [wiki] [[Indirect]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39256&oldid=39255 * 76.94.2.75 * (+104) /* "operations" */ 14:52:13 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:53:18 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:55:14 -!- myname has joined. 14:55:41 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:55:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:58:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:59:17 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:00:36 -!- newsham has joined. 15:05:54 -!- xpte has joined. 15:46:40 -!- nisstyre has joined. 15:53:58 -!- ^v has joined. 15:54:10 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:54:20 -!- nisstyre has joined. 15:59:23 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:02:11 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 16:06:08 -!- password2 has joined. 16:31:19 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:25:02 cool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeen_or_Bust 22:26:31 oerjan: seems somewhat stalled 22:28:21 there's of course the possibility the conjecture is wrong and the last six will never budge 22:28:54 no progress for seven years is a bit sad 22:29:03 (okay, fsvo "progress") 22:29:24 And their homepage 22:29:27 It's... 22:29:41 Brown 22:29:51 note the digits column though, they've definitely not stopped searching 22:31:38 maybe they should get tao on the case to prove it's wrong 22:32:02 the tao is silent 22:34:41 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:34:43 indeed, his blog seems to have never mentioned it 22:36:53 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:39:41 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 22:40:15 -!- conehead has joined. 22:46:17 -!- fizzie has joined. 22:46:50 Hm, this time the codu.org is in fact entirely down, or is it just me? 22:52:47 `echo hi 22:52:48 hi 22:53:17 DFM 22:53:54 No, I mean, http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://codu.org/ for that matter. 22:54:34 that's what i meant too 22:54:51 Oh, I didn't understand DFM at all. 22:55:05 I thought it was some kind of a new HTH. 22:55:24 (I was trying to see all the no doubt incredible happenings that had happened while I was gone there.) 22:55:26 no it was a new WFM HTH 22:55:52 indeed, his blog seems to have never mentioned it 22:56:23 i suppose you may have missed something before that too 22:56:47 " note the digits column though, they've definitely not stopped searching" is the last I saw. But it's not all that important. 22:58:04 ok 2048 is officially passé, dagbladet.no is covering it. (and putting it behind their paywall part.) 22:58:04 dfm means both "down for me" and "doesn't fucking matter"...different farflung meanings 23:02:04 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:14:13 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 23:14:42 are there numbers stations on twitter 23:15:56 https://twitter.com/NumbersStations 23:16:17 i assume that was a rhetorical question 23:18:36 -!- tromp has joined. 23:21:22 -!- variable has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 2014-04-09: 22:27:56 -!- boily has joined. 22:28:11 lexande: hellexandello! you'll be quoted in no time. 22:28:24 `ello lexande 22:28:25 lexandello 22:28:56 shellochellof. 22:29:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:31:16 lexande: ♪ding♪ your missing quote is ready! 22:31:34 quintopia: quintellopiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! 22:31:46 hi 22:32:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:32:46 -!- glogbot has joined. 22:32:49 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:32:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:33:38 quintopia: how's life? is it spring already down South? 22:35:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:35:06 -!- glogbot has joined. 22:35:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:35:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:36:33 !logs 22:37:12 boily: thank you! i am still missing a description though 22:37:32 did you ever get lexande's approximate coördinates and body weigh 22:37:35 now the codu logs are empty pages :( 22:38:36 lexande: I know. no one entered a Wisdom Entry about you yet. 22:38:46 where do those come from? 22:38:48 shachaf: not yet. let me ask them the The Question. 22:39:12 lexande: eeeeeh... you know about the bees and flowers and storks, right? 22:39:33 lexande: also, could you please answer the The Question? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 22:40:13 i answered it on 2013-10-08 22:40:47 10:11 < boily> lexande: what kind of people do you meet? are met people human? do you like roast beef? what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 22:40:56 10:16 < lexande> boily: {iowa, tanzania, cambridge, caltech, boston, new york, CMU, random traveling} people; yes (to first approximation); ambivalent; (40.80, -73.94) and 90kg 22:41:11 10:21 < lexande> err, 900N sorry 22:41:12 10:21 * boily falls down from his chair “A first! Complete and useful information!” 22:41:26 ah bin torieux. autant pour moi... 22:42:14 `? boily 22:42:15 boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. 22:44:10 ~metar LOWI 22:45:13 int-e: int-ello. sorry, let me cuttlefishify the channel ipso facto. 22:45:31 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:45:36 ~metar LOWI 22:45:36 LOWI 092220Z AUTO VRB02KT 9999 BKN090 08/M00 Q1023 22:49:43 * int-e fails to think of a clever way of combining "thanks" and "boily" into a single word. thankoily? much boiblyged? 22:50:09 suggestions welcome. 22:50:52 `thanks boily 22:50:53 Thanks, boily. Thoily. 22:51:05 right. 22:51:19 `thanks shachaf 22:51:20 Thanks, shachaf. Thachaf. 22:52:25 `thanks kmc 22:52:25 Thanks, kmc. Tmc. 22:52:35 <_< 22:52:45 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 22:55:01 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39273&oldid=39272 * 198.188.4.4 * (+279) Borrowed decrement from Nock 22:58:06 “much boiblyged”. hi hi hi :D 22:58:52 ~metar CYUL 22:58:52 CYUL 092200Z 26014G22KT 30SM SKC 04/M10 A2984 RMK SLP106 23:03:21 https://twitter.com/Slidebite/status/453974294582665217 23:05:31 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39274 * 198.188.4.4 * (+369) Created page with "--~~~~ I'm probably going to write a Hoon implementation at some point. Though in that case I'll borrow the local convention of %literals (besides numbers, I suppose I could j..." 23:17:19 -!- augur has joined. 23:24:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:32:57 https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t31.0-8/1941475_10203307420304421_4729873601312022517_o.jpg “This content cannot be displayed in a frame” 23:33:17 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:35:18 -!- augur has joined. 23:35:31 :3 23:35:53 is that the error produced by X-Frame-Options ? 23:36:24 ion: :D 23:37:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:39:00 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:40:04 -!- tromp has joined. 23:47:14 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39275&oldid=39273 * 198.188.4.4 * (+36) Amended to use fixpoint combinator instead of relying on scope 23:53:09 -!- Froox has joined. 23:55:02 -!- Froox has quit (Client Quit). 2014-04-10: 00:02:13 `coins 00:02:15 aeoldcoin immentheoncoin olerankcoin aarecoin glypecoin taxiccoin corumcoin abcdxcoin evisincoin cvlcoin singcoin bam1coin smatyracoin beitcoin mkmbccoin phabetcoin checoin vernatocoin boenamcoin viotecoin 00:03:25 ♫ singcoin ♫ 00:03:51 -!- augur has joined. 00:18:35 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zerk * New user account 00:22:47 http://boingboing.net/2014/04/09/breather-is-like-an-airbnb-by.html ← that is an idea eagerly waiting for a disaster... 00:22:55 (but hey, I can get some in Montréal!) 00:30:31 disaster? 00:31:06 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Changing host). 00:31:06 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 00:43:55 -!- ^v has joined. 00:45:04 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:46:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:49:40 Sgeo: people are random. everything can happen. like, everything. 00:54:54 https://twitter.com/tavisrudd/status/454044086547136512/photo/1/large good news everyone, i have found the best programming psychology paper yet. 00:55:44 kind of funny that i saw this right after hunting down (!) a spreadsheet bug by following a chain of dependencies 01:01:48 `coins 01:01:49 ensiscoin lazycoin vasscoin mizatifcoin intecoin poincoin lockzufcoin lyacoin clubcoin bracoin martrecoin l3250coin procoin skycoin mumontecoin dd/ddcoin eta-julietzstreactcoin charmancoin binarycoin huntedcoin 01:02:14 * boily gives a poincoin to Bike 01:02:24 poutinecoin 01:02:45 Lazycoin leaves the mining to the entity exchanging something else for lazycoin. 01:02:50 (relatedly, fuck excel) 01:03:12 fuxcel 01:03:36 Excel is a fine demo platform. http://youtu.be/4xKllypfn20 01:03:53 http://nayuki.eigenstate.org/page/aes-cipher-internals-in-excel 01:03:54 mmm poutinecoin 01:04:23 boily! 01:04:33 i think, if i somehow got leeway to teach a class to actual human beings, it would be about how to simplify your science homework by programming things 01:04:34 you didn't sendn me a birthday present! 01:04:36 :P 01:04:37 here's your reaction ordres bla bla 01:05:32 oh my god, is this double buffering via sheets? 01:06:11 yes 01:07:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:07:47 it just seems a bit embarassing that "tangent line" is a concept that needs to be worked through in college 01:07:55 quintopia! 01:08:46 I had a nice galvaude Monday night. (I know I shouldn't, cause I always have weird dreams afterwads and it wreaks my digestion, but it tastes so good...) 01:08:53 s/ds/rds/ 01:08:59 i had no galvaudes 01:09:05 you should have sent me one 01:09:09 weird dreams eh? 01:09:18 -!- tromp has joined. 01:10:45 kmc: poutine-induced dreams are interesting, to say the least. when you upgrade to a galvaude, anything goes. 01:11:03 i'll have to try that sometime 01:11:20 I rarely remember interesting dreams despite sleeping under the influence of all manner of psychoactive compounds 01:11:29 but poutine might beat them all 01:11:40 >implying poutine isn't psychoactive 01:11:40 have you ever had poutine? 01:12:02 yes 01:12:07 but it was american poutine 01:12:14 please. don't make me want to take off +c 01:12:18 so maybe it doesn't have the je ne sais quoi 01:12:22 elliott: +c? 01:12:29 uh, put it on rather 01:12:39 also a lot of my friends are headed to your fair city, boily 01:12:46 for Pie Khan 01:12:54 ~duck pie khan 01:12:54 --- No relevant information 01:13:00 * boily mapoles the cuttle 01:13:22 kmc: what's a pie khan? 01:13:32 (also, for you next poutine, add duck meat and green peas.) 01:13:44 (only frozen peas. canned peas are no good.) 01:13:48 aka PyCon 01:13:59 ah, that thing my friend from Québec City is coming over too. 01:14:29 it sounds fun and friendly 01:14:30 elliott: here's where i greentext you a bunch in a futile effort to jok'e 01:14:34 (not going to do this obviously) 01:14:45 a friend of man came to atlanta for pycon a couple years back, and decided to come when i was out of the country :( 01:14:46 maybe I'll go someday, even though I don't give much of a shit about python 01:14:53 a friend of man 01:14:54 man? i meant mine 01:14:57 a title to which I aspire 01:15:05 pie khan is in QC? 01:15:22 boily: go to a con in atl 01:15:31 i'll try to be here 01:15:34 coppro: no, montréal 01:15:36 “Belle later confirmed the existence of the Z(4430) with a significance of 5.2 sigma on the scale that particle physicists use to describe the certainty of a result.” 01:15:39 “sigmificance” FTFY 01:15:43 kmc: that's still in QC 01:15:44 ;) 01:15:48 oh 01:15:55 coppro: you Ontarian :P 01:15:56 I assumed that meant Quebec City 01:16:00 truly I have made an ass out of u and me 01:16:45 boily: :P 01:17:17 kmc: one important French thing people learn here is the difference between «au Québec» and «à Québec». 01:17:18 today i learned that a friend's advisor thought results were significant because they had non-overlapping SE bars. stats sure is hard. 01:17:26 heh 01:17:35 rofl 01:17:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%284430%29 that's a lot of sigmificance 01:18:33 boily: what is it 01:18:48 kmc: the former refers to the province, the latter to the city. 01:20:12 -!- boily has quit (Quit: DREAMING CHICKEN). 01:20:17 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:21:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay physics is impossible 01:21:26 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 01:22:16 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:18 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:19 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:54 -!- olsner has joined. 01:23:09 -!- Gregor has joined. 01:25:43 -!- jhj1 has joined. 01:28:19 "All shamen are at your disposal" 01:29:42 What are shamen? 01:32:38 plural of shaman I assume. Or the lyrics sites I looked at are wrong 01:32:59 false friends >:| 01:33:52 Same song talks about stimulating your third eye 01:34:31 that doesn't sound sexual at all 01:34:33 Eat a single raman noodle 01:35:45 men should be an alias to man -a 01:35:50 in college we had fake majors listed on our dorm doors and douglass_ at one point had "Ramen Spectroscopy" 01:36:29 heh 01:36:35 What was yours? 01:37:01 Wiktionary lists shamen as a hypercorrect plural of shaman. And apparently hypercorrect is a subset of incorrect 01:37:11 it is. 01:37:20 i don't remember 01:37:22 something less funny 01:37:28 "shaman" is from some language near siberia or mongolia 01:37:36 nothing to do with german plurals 01:37:50 kmc: they never gave me my "hobotopy theory" one 01:38:04 B| 01:38:14 Toby the hobo 01:38:27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3WFrQzYJOY 01:38:55 The only reason I care about this song is because I think it's a song I heard briefly on PulsRadio in 2006, but streamripper never manaaged to capture it 01:40:10 that doesn't really explain anything 01:42:37 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:43:25 kmc: Would it help if you combine that explanation with an OCD? 01:44:20 a little 01:46:18 I don't think I have OCD. Although I do sometimes worry what if I didn't lock the door. And when I was a kid, I once recorded each die roll in a game of Monopoly because I wanted it to be reproducible (not in those worse). Randomness freaked me out 01:47:03 Before then, played Monopoly on the computer with friends, but when most of my friends left, another friend and I played out the game a bit more and caused someone who wasn't there to go bankrupt 01:51:05 -!- augur has joined. 01:51:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:52:17 -!- tromp has joined. 01:52:22 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/180162 aaaaaaaaaaah 01:52:48 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:53:06 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:55:27 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:55:50 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 01:56:07 wat :-D 01:56:41 the 1904 date system is a plot by the pope 02:12:36 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 02:13:54 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:33:42 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:00:05 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/211963 03:00:21 -!- Slereah has joined. 03:00:26 Had this not occurred, I assume heartbleed would instead be an easy DoS attack? 03:00:40 Oh, probably just on OpenBSD? 03:02:02 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:02:06 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:02:31 It also would've been easily noticed. 03:06:42 "malloc guarding (world is not ready for this)" 03:06:42 ? 03:32:43 "Let me reiterate - everybody who was ever taught anything about that green padlock - grandmothers, bosses, school kids, web devs, everyone - now thinks that it means something it doesn’t, and won’t mean what they think again until all those server-babies are replaced." 03:33:05 Any chance of browser vendors agreeing to not show the security lock for sites affected by Heartbleed? 03:33:18 Although, how to detect site that was vulnerable, repaired bug, didn't yet get new certificates 03:33:35 That would require shipping an exploit for heartbleed 03:33:37 So, zero 03:33:44 That would also require giving a shit 03:33:47 a tree planted upside-down 03:34:24 Bosses and web devs are a lost cause anyway 03:36:14 I'm a web dev 03:36:32 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:38:31 and do you know where your cause is? 03:42:25 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=994033 03:49:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 03:50:25 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39276&oldid=39275 * Doesthiswork * (-9) I couldn't get the Y combinator to terminate so I'm using a different way to get a fixed point 03:52:11 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39277&oldid=39276 * Doesthiswork * (+1) left off a bracket 03:55:44 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 03:56:20 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:05:10 I'm seriously tempted to start using LastPass 04:10:34 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:11:00 -!- ^v has joined. 04:34:04 I don't trust myself to make backups 04:41:18 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39278&oldid=39277 * Doesthiswork * (+3) added missing :- 04:54:27 i'm mostly tempted to write my own custom deterministic password generator 04:55:50 base64(HMAC-SHA256(master key, website domain name))[:16] 04:56:00 should do nicely 04:56:06 alias pw='echo -n "> " && stty -echo && (read pw && echo -n "$pw" | sha256sum | head -c 20 && echo; stty echo)' 04:56:13 kmc: i don't want to have to depend on a master key 04:56:35 What do you want to depend on, then 04:56:36 I used to use hashapass 04:56:45 Found I couldn't remember the names I gave each site 04:57:07 if only there were some hierarchical name structure associated with websites 04:57:12 Why don't you use the name the site gives itself 04:57:16 Jafet: gestures which are different for each domain 04:57:20 Most sites have that 04:57:55 How are you going to come up with the gestures 04:58:00 I also have no list of every website that I have made a password for 04:58:11 This has been problematic before and it's problematic now 04:58:30 my gesture for every site would be a big ol' middle finger 04:58:35 Jafet: generate a custom image automatically and deterministically, and use my innate sense of location and visual memory to recall the gesture associated with it 04:59:11 My sense of location is pretty exnate, but ok 04:59:54 Wait, passgestures, is this one of those "phone"isms 05:01:05 I'm a bit surprised nobody has asked for TLS to happen for esolangs.org. 05:01:06 Speak friend and slide to unlock 05:01:48 Jafet: that's unusual. most animal memories are location-based 05:01:50 Does LastPass not work well for nonwebsite passwords? 05:02:01 "i recognize this place. the last time i was here i ...." 05:06:37 stty intr ^M 05:06:46 :D 05:07:31 echo stty intr ^M >> ~/.bashrc 05:07:46 hm 05:07:52 how would you fix that 05:08:07 oh, ^J 05:08:24 scp 05:09:12 i'm going to need to do the pick-a-distribution thing again soon 05:09:16 should i go with nixos 05:09:23 probably the answer is no 05:09:51 For some reason, I can bypass ^J with C-^J. 05:09:52 What's wrong with nixos? 05:09:58 stty intr ^m erase ^j 05:10:48 running «stty intr ^C < /dev/pts/1» in another terminal is enough to let me run one command, but then it resets 05:10:58 perhaps bash is saving and restoring the termios stuff 05:11:26 perhaps its applying it to the wrong pty? 05:11:30 try stty -F ? 05:11:49 Then why would it be enough for one command? 05:12:01 Hey. 05:12:04 i dunno.. i dont understand computers 05:12:07 You should use Bedrock Linux, and run a banking website from it 05:13:11 i run enough websites for a lifetime 05:15:32 after a while they run you 05:15:45 stty kill '^J' 05:19:47 ln -s /dev/zero ~/.bashrc 05:20:52 echo 'echo "sleep 0.1" >> ~/.bashrc' >> ~/.bashrc 05:21:14 Who came up with that originally 05:22:09 heh, that's good. 05:22:10 it has been around for at least 20 years 05:22:23 so each time you log in it gets slower? 05:22:48 just like winxp? 05:23:04 hehe 05:23:07 microsoft gotta get paid 05:23:43 whoa, whoa, whoa 05:24:05 http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/folklore/the.tricks 05:24:07 ketil malde 05:24:42 moores compensation 05:27:06 20 years ago was an odd time 05:27:08 -!- not^v has joined. 05:27:10 i once wrote a program which would recurse into all subdirs and in each subdir it would list files that werent dirs and randomly rename them to each other 05:27:21 so that you still had all the same files but with different filenames 05:27:29 (err, dirs were renamed too, oops) 05:28:06 did everyone have signatures on their messages back then 05:29:09 it was a different time 05:29:19 a time of .plans and .signatures 05:30:24 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:32:03 whoa, newsham was there 05:32:18 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sources.wanted/3o-Ej2pyvQ8/eSwcgvJWDT4J 05:33:11 hm 05:33:24 It's a bit disturbing that most of those tricks are still applicable. 05:34:24 jafet: but who uses multi-user systems these days? 05:35:11 wow, schachaf, thats a really old post 05:35:49 what a dumb question 05:36:42 i wondr if that was my first usenet post evar 05:37:25 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.minix/pHRCC5JKCV8/4irAi_sYsZwJ was earlier 05:37:28 "(please respond in mail so as not to waste bandwidth)" 05:37:34 a different time, indeed 05:37:42 snail mail? 05:37:43 i'll stop looking for old newshamposts now 05:38:20 thats a year later, shachaf 05:38:24 oh, right, it's newsgroups, not a mailing list 05:38:54 oops, 91 /= 90 05:39:36 i think i got my unix account in fall 1989. i didnt find usenet right away 05:39:45 ok, then https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.fractals/xLXAGFDRcwY/L4FJBhoEi3QJ 05:40:14 all these things are from before i was born 05:40:33 it's all the same to me 05:41:32 kids 05:42:29 did someone reply by letter? 05:43:04 I got hit by a letter. 05:53:09 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 05:54:40 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:57:53 "A co-worker has his plan file end with 05:57:54 [2] - Done /bin/rm -rf ~ & 05:57:54 which tends to induce heart-attacks in the unwary... 05:57:58 " heh. mean 06:02:56 -!- password2 has joined. 06:17:51 I think I had something esolangy in my .plan at the university shell servers. 06:17:57 Probably a Befunge program. 06:30:11 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:35:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:36:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:38:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 06:39:51 -!- MoALTz has joined. 06:50:00 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:57:08 -!- atriq has joined. 06:57:39 I wonder if I should learn Forth 07:11:21 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 07:12:00 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: gets hit by an ice-cream truck). 07:16:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:25:51 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 07:29:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:12:38 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:13:30 -!- tromp has joined. 08:13:41 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 08:14:54 If there can be a payer paying a payee, and an employer employing an employee, and so on, why is the thing what a mentor does to a mentee called "mentoring" and not "menting"? 08:15:30 @wn mentee 08:15:33 No match for "mentee". 08:16:07 OED: "mentee, n. Etymology: < ment- (in mentor n.) + -ee suffix1. orig. U.S. A person who has a mentor; the person guided or tutored by a mentor." 08:16:54 @wn ment 08:16:56 No match for "ment". 08:16:57 One of the downstairs info screens was promoting some university mentoring program with a logo that said "mentor", "mentoring", "mentee" in it. 08:17:17 Hmm, I suppose you could claim "ment". 08:35:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:07:18 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:09:42 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:13:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:24:49 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 09:26:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:31:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:32:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:44:46 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:00:51 -!- yorick has joined. 10:02:38 >> mean(cleancep, 2).' 10:02:38 ans = 10:02:38 -Inf NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN NaN 10:02:42 Best mean vector ever. 10:03:50 it's so mean it just says NaN NaN NaN at you 10:07:05 NaNaNaN 10:07:39 -Inf 10:16:07 -!- boily has joined. 10:20:59 fizzie: nice 10:24:54 @massages-loud 10:24:54 You don't have any messages 10:29:40 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 10:54:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Ribbit). 11:06:40 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Chasing Norwegian frogs...). 11:19:15 -!- nucular has joined. 11:19:16 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 11:19:16 -!- nucular has joined. 11:44:16 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:54:11 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:54:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:56:45 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 11:57:01 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 12:05:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:21:04 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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(Which got turned into -Inf by a log compression step, and NaNs by a DCT.) 18:14:42 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:16:21 Hello 18:17:12 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:24:44 fizzie: Try applying some heat, they might get softer. 18:25:57 I applied an arbitrary epsilon. It wasn't for anything serious. 18:26:32 -!- password2 has joined. 18:28:20 -!- conehead has joined. 18:28:51 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:37:39 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:38:01 -!- ^v has joined. 18:40:13 [wiki] [[Esolang:Wiki dumps]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39282&oldid=30687 * Fizzie * (+74) Time zones are the bane of all civilized folk. (+update numbers) 18:54:25 the ECMAScript standards committee is meeting just down the hall from me 18:54:33 clearly I should go in and troll them about adding dependent types or something 18:56:46 Someone was thinking of doing some kind of Rust promotion lecture at the university. 18:56:57 cool 18:57:06 i,i integer promotion lecture 19:00:37 I haven't been following the ECMAScript standardization effort at all, except that I remember I've been surprised several times to find out that those Mozilla additions (generators, array comprehensions, let expressions, expression closures) still aren't standard and/or widely supported. 19:01:01 I guess it all has something to do with this Harmony thing I've heard of. 19:01:56 -!- DiNoALaCorrupcio has joined. 19:08:53 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 19:08:58 -!- elliott has kicked DiNoALaCorrupcio no thanks. 19:09:10 (see previous k-lining) 19:11:03 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +b *!*@denuncia.anonima.empleosonora.gob.mx. 19:11:05 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 19:21:37 kmc: I double dare you to troll the ecmascript standards commity 19:22:30 "hey peeps, how's ur assembly going" 19:29:13 kmc: You should go in and troll them about the things mentioned in the wat talk. 19:29:34 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 19:31:13 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:31:45 i haven't seen that talk in a long time 19:31:54 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:31:58 -!- scoff has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:33:23 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bk3uviICYAAvnWo.jpg:large 19:33:39 That is what the future will be like 19:33:43 Very tiny floppy disks 19:34:13 Bike: you are aware of http://asmjs.org/ right? 19:34:47 doesn't kmc work with it 19:35:18 -!- scoff has joined. 19:35:21 I don't know 19:36:33 slereah: http://www.windowsphonefr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/micro-sd.jpg 19:37:11 -!- TheMind has joined. 19:37:37 That's not floppy at all! 19:37:41 Or a disk! 19:38:17 -!- tertu has joined. 19:38:57 ion: Next, find a photo that's analogous to that tiny tiny keyboard on the watch. 19:40:04 Also find a tiny console-based computer 19:40:09 Might be a bit harder 19:40:28 I don't think the iPhone would sell as well if it was all command line 19:40:41 -!- TheMind has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:40:47 http://www.buysku.com/wholesale/q8-dual-sim-quad-band-1-5-quot-touch-screen-watch-cell-phone-with-keyboard-camera-bluetooth-fm-mp3-mp4-white.html 19:41:01 ok, so I have a crazy idea about an esoteric virtual machine 19:42:08 suppose you have a cpu with very few registers, say only an instruction pointer, an accumulator, and an index/extra register. 19:42:12 Oh man 19:42:24 imagine it has a reasonable small instruction set, but there's one crippling feature. 19:42:27 Imagine a dude talking to SIRI in console commands 19:42:31 SIRI, MAKEDIR 19:43:43 so far this is 6502? 19:44:01 Bike: I think it's intentional, and the twist is yet to come. 19:44:10 probably 19:44:28 the feature is that interrupts are handled in a crazy way: when an interrupt arrives, the cpu overwrites each of the few registers is overwritten by interrupt-related information without saving it first. the ip is set to the interrupt handler address, the accumulator to the interrupt number, and the index register to some port input from the hardware. 19:44:47 there's some limit for how quickly you can get interrupts or else you would have to lose some. 19:44:52 and you can't disable interrupts. 19:45:04 Bike: like 6502 but with wider word size 19:45:28 so you have to do all normal computations in an idempotent way because an interrupt can destroy your registers any time 19:45:53 well, the isa can't be 6502, then 19:46:16 after the interrupt, the os will resume your program at some last saved location, but since then your program might have done some steps 19:46:23 so you can't do destructive computations in place 19:46:30 because then they might run twice 19:46:51 but you can do non-in-place operations, then in the worst case you recompute the part since last time you saved the status to memory 19:48:05 It sounds likely that you'd end up with some translator from a non-crazy thing to the crazy thing, with some amount of overhead, and then you'd do all the work in the non-crazy thing. 19:48:29 fizzie: possible, if you don't mind the overhead 19:48:42 but for the inner loops you might want to code for the crazy thing directly 19:50:44 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:50:53 yeah, it's not a really good idea 20:01:37 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:03:47 i don't use asm.js for anything at the moment 20:07:45 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:07:46 -!- ter2 has joined. 20:08:15 but it's another Mozilla Research project 20:08:28 somebody needs to get the .js TLD 20:10:32 -!- conehead has joined. 20:11:32 fizzie: you can write such translators for most esolangs, though 20:12:00 Yes, I was commenting from the viewpoint of some hypothetical poor soul hired to port a game on the hypothetical computer, or something. 20:12:10 heh 20:12:40 I've never designed a proper esolang 20:12:45 maybe I should try my hand at an eso-ISA instead 20:13:17 though a lot of esolangs feel like machine code 20:13:42 are there real ISAs with Brainfuck-style structured control instructions? 20:14:04 that is, you have "loop begin" and "loop end" instructions and the CPU will scan forward/backward in memory to find a matching one 20:15:13 Regarding the .js TLD, I think you'd need to beat up someone at ICANN for it. 20:15:36 Because I think they reserved all 2-character ASCII strings for "possible future ccTLD delegations". 20:15:36 x86 has the LOOP instruction but it still has an explicit jump target 20:16:11 fizzie: or I need to create an internationally breakaway state whose plausible abbreviation is '.js' 20:16:21 internationally recognized* 20:18:45 kmc: ISTR the TMS320C54x (or some other member of TMS320) has a "repeat block" instruction, but you give the block size as an immediate argument to the instruction. 20:19:16 yeah 20:19:43 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:19:57 (Then the instruction initializes the "repeat block" register to contain the size and the end address, sets the "repeat counter" register, and the hardware arranges for the repetition to happen.) 20:19:59 now I'm thinking about a weird mash-up of x86's rep and Thumb2's i[te]{1,4} instructions 20:20:32 ooh, that TMS320C54x thing seems pretty close 20:20:36 I don't know much about DSP architectures 20:22:54 -!- variable has joined. 20:24:06 I also wonder if a "conditionalize any instruction" prefix was ever considered for x86 20:24:08 Oh, if you want to be more exact about it, "RPTB pmad" sets RSA and REA (repeat start/end address) to PC+2 and pmad, respectively, and turns the BRAF (block-repeat active flag) on; you're supposed to have manually set the BRC (block-repeat counter) beforehand. 20:24:26 BRAF is a great name for a register 20:24:46 and pmad is a great name for an operand 20:24:48 Sadly, it's just a name of a bit in ST1. 20:24:58 I take it you've programmed for the TMS320C54x? 20:24:58 But there's a lot of "pmad"s in the manual. 20:25:05 is there also "umad" 20:25:45 There's just dmad, extpmad and pmad. 20:26:07 And I've done a little bit for it; we had a three-architecture DSP course with randomly assigned architectures for the groupwork. 20:26:51 haha 20:26:53 what did you build? 20:27:49 There was a TI TMS320C5416 devboard (what we had), a Motorola DSP56k thing of something or another, and a Sharc ADSP which was I think some sort of a musician DSP effect box with a twiddleable knob and all. 20:28:05 We built an echo effect thingie. Just a second, I have a photo I've pasted on-channel before. 20:29:22 a button to touch, a dial to turn, a key to hold 20:30:23 Our devboard just had four dip switches and four leds in terms of UI, so we had to figure out alternative controls. 20:30:32 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140410-spank.jpg 20:31:07 (We had to do a three-slide presentation at the end of the course, that was one of the slides.) 20:32:21 Also it's called "spank" because the name of the course was "SPÄNK", short for "signaaliprosessorit ja äänenkäsittely", "[digital] signal processors and sound processing". 20:33:16 nice 20:33:39 SPÄNK sounds like something from IKEA's line of sex toys 20:35:11 If I recall correctly, the top-left thing was a Perl + Tk prototype for figuring out the algorithm and parameters, the middle picture shows the DSP devboard and the TI-86 driven slider control interface, and top-right is a photo of the oscilloscope we used when we spent two nights debugging the DSP/TI-86 link that turned out to be a broken cable I had salvaged from a discarded set of speakers ... 20:35:17 ... that, when I finally came to think of it, were in fact discarded because no sound came out of them. 20:35:44 fizzie: Do you know of a no-horribly-expensive DSP platform for a hobbyist? Perhaps with an ADAT interface or some other way to add an AD/DA interface (possibly with preamps) with a number of channels. 20:37:52 (Also I couldn't quite manage to convince the (really quite flexible) C5416 "McBSP" serial port to give me the TI-86 stuff over DMA, so we had to resort to software polling.) 20:38:13 ion: One of the boxes we had on the course was the http://www.chameleon.synth.net/english/index.shtml but I think that must be pretty outdated by now? 20:38:50 "Only a few units remain, --" I guess they're not really selling it any more either. 20:38:52 Thanks, i’ll take a look. 20:38:54 heh 20:39:42 It seemed like quite a nice thing for that sort of thing. Though I don't know if it was ever what you'd call affordable. 20:41:02 There are reasonably cheap devkits similar to the C5416 one we had, but their I/O capabilities might be somewhat lacking, if you want multiple AD/DA channels. 20:41:54 8 inputs would be nice. 20:44:06 They're things like http://www.ti.com/tool/tmdx5502ezdsp for $89, but at least that particular one just has two channels in/out when it comes to audio codecs. 20:44:15 Some of them have add-on modules you can stick on, though. 20:48:11 TI-86 :) 20:48:24 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 20:50:03 A friend wrote the Z80 code for the TI-86 side. 20:50:25 (I wrote the DSP side of the communications stuff.) 20:52:11 Actually, I'm a bit surprised if there isn't a Kickstarter for something like that Soundart Chameleon around. 20:55:41 fizzie: Thanks for the pointer, i’ll research them add-on modules. 20:56:09 From a quick look, it seemed like the "DSK" boards that accepted them rather quickly went to several hundreds of dollars. 20:57:25 Ok, a bit too expensive then. Thanks anyway. 20:57:39 As one final note, Analog Devices' SigmaDSP evaluation boards are a bit more fully featured when it comes to built-in analog inputs/outputs -- http://www.analog.com/en/processors-dsp/sigmadsp/products/sigmadsp_evaluation_boards/fca.html -- but they're not exactly cheap either. 20:58:46 Thanks 21:02:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:05:46 Fun fact: there's a reasonably "general-purpose" TI TMS320C64x (the aspires-to-VLIW-but-not-quite sibling to the C54x family) DSP core in my N900, and I keep thinking of trying to hack together something using it, but so far haven't managed to. 21:06:00 I know the stock camera application encodes JPGs on it. 21:07:34 can you easily program it? 21:08:07 Not "easily", but people have done it up to some degree. The communications to/from it are somewhat torturous, AIUI. 21:10:12 It was a relatively common OMAP3 feature, I believe; I don't know if it's any easier/harder to access on the myriad other OMAP3 devices. (From OMAP4 onwards, I think TI gave up on including a generic DSP chip like that, and just bundled one of their more video-specific things.) 21:13:11 They're still making those "DaVinci" family of SoCs that bundle a C6x DSP with an ARM core, and people are still using them, I believe, in things like media player boxes and such. 21:13:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:15:21 There seems to be at least hacked-together port of the (Mozilla-funded!) C64x+ implementation of Theora to the N900. 21:15:30 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 21:15:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:17:10 http://schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/ 21:17:43 And then -> http://blog.mjg.im/2010/04/16/theora-on-n900.html to N900. 21:17:55 Probably not much happening there these days. 21:19:35 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 21:19:43 Someone should write a C64 emulator on C64x+ 21:23:59 “Videotape evidence can be overruled by the testimony and after-the-fact interpretation of a police officer, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled last week.” http://thenewspaper.com/news/43/4373.asp 21:24:19 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:42:47 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:45:43 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:03:34 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:04:58 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 22:05:09 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 22:05:09 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 22:05:16 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:05:19 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 22:05:31 http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/ 22:07:36 -!- vravn has joined. 22:09:39 the spitbol manual says that it has esoteric features 22:11:37 shachaf: OKAY 22:11:48 oerjan: NOT OKAY 22:12:57 i liked the --increase-blast-area option i got 22:22:51 -!- boily has joined. 22:24:03 helloily 22:24:14 i have a studentless session! 22:26:33 great 22:28:04 quinthellopia! 22:28:06 eh? 22:31:05 it means i can sort of chat a bit until 7:40 22:31:15 ah! :D 22:31:24 so what's the best game? 22:31:37 of video 22:31:39 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:31:39 DCSS!!!!!1!!1!11!!!one!! 22:31:53 what is that 22:32:08 quintopia: what time is it now? 22:32:24 6:32 22:32:28 pm 22:33:12 dungeon crawl stone soup. and you're lucky, 0.14 is just out! 22:33:38 (okay. I *may* be a little bit addicted to that game. only slightly. a smidge.) 22:33:55 but then, I also have spent many hours on minecraft... 22:33:56 brogue is good too 22:34:12 what about spelunky 22:34:13 I haven't brogued yet, but it seems very interesting, what with all those colours and shiny stuff. 22:34:18 not a roguelike 22:34:24 a roguelike-like. 22:34:40 it is more like a roguelike than any platformer out there 22:35:03 the colors are there to make it feel as if you are really walking thought the cave 22:35:15 spelunky is very roguelike-y. procedural, stupid deaths, bonus impossible stuff... 22:36:19 i want to play spelunky crossed with DF 22:36:25 in 3d 22:36:39 holy fungot with the hardcore stuff, batman! 22:36:39 boily: it's a logic system in scheme, lists are a pair of identifiers except by accident. 22:36:49 fungot: no, quintopia is not logical. 22:36:49 boily: vim isn't exactly snappy on slower systems either. 22:36:52 wouldn't a functional game be in a better state than a procedural one? 22:37:35 hey boily this might interest you, 22:37:40 /j ##ircplayscrawl 22:37:49 boily: it would be the hardest game ever written, but "fun" 22:37:52 and `telnet termcast.org` 22:37:54 how would you cross a platformer like spelunky with a strategy game like df? 22:38:20 nooodl: I hate you, tempting me with awesome time-sucking things like that. 22:41:17 doesthiswork: how do you cross an adventure game like Alice with an RTS like C&C? (The answer is Brutal Legend) 22:41:47 in other words: i haven't thought about it enough to know, but i'll know it when i see it. 22:42:26 adventure and rts both have slower paceing 22:43:28 hardly 22:43:45 i maybe should say action? 22:43:49 action adventure? 22:44:05 anyway, i specifically mean real time games 22:48:29 ok what parts of df do you like? 22:50:54 procedural generation of worlds, including their history, culture, climates, biomes, etc. independent agents with their own goals, able to modify the world in physically realistic ways. 22:53:39 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 22:54:36 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 22:56:40 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:57:12 -!- nooodl has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:57:14 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 22:58:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:05:36 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 23:09:14 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:10:15 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:20:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:41:45 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:43:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:43:43 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:43:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 23:43:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:54:58 -!- ^v has joined. 2014-04-11: 00:07:30 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:07:48 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 00:07:56 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Client Quit). 00:08:03 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:11:14 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:14:36 -!- vravn has joined. 00:18:17 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 00:24:20 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:24:34 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:25:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: timeout: 8-9 hours). 00:28:37 -!- vravn has joined. 00:49:52 -!- ter2 has joined. 00:52:37 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 00:52:56 -!- ^v has joined. 01:07:54 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:13:43 -!- boily has quit (Quit: GARDEN CHICKEN). 01:13:50 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:20:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:27:08 ^v why not <^v> ? 01:27:30 <^v> wat 01:27:36 <^v> why do you think 01:32:49 this week in "dumb questions"; 01:35:38 oh, is that why it is. 01:35:45 clever. 01:54:22 topic 01:54:23 oops 01:59:59 I was going to suggest that actually 02:08:34 oh there you are <^v> I was wondering where you had gone when I only saw ^v in the channel 02:09:06 <^v> wat 02:14:01 wat isn't THAT esoteric but it's still interesting https://github.com/manuel/wat-js 02:14:28 doesthiswork: i don't see <^v>, only < ^v> 02:14:55 I'm using the webchat interface 02:15:31 <^v> nobody else has a space? 02:16:49 I do. 02:16:50 irssi 02:18:45 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:30:54 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:34:38 -!- vravn has joined. 02:35:12 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:38:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:40:57 r 02:40:57 19:40 < Barcode> i ended up spitting a wad of half-dry blood into the garbage like 15 minutes after i figured i stopped my bleed and my coworker just. stopped typing for a few seconds 02:41:00 oops. 02:41:01 well, whatever. 02:45:38 I think the idea of just passing around IOs and functions to IOs is starting to bother me 02:46:09 What does an (a -> IO ()) do when you pass it an a? Whatever the heck it wants to! What do you mean, this one is supposed to trigger a bunch of event handlers? 02:48:29 what does an a -> Num do when you pass it an a who knows 02:57:07 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:07:36 Sgeo: it doesn't do anything 03:08:05 but as for the IO actions themselves, yes, the lack of type information about effects can be problematic 03:11:42 you want event handlers to be able to do arbitrary IO anyway, generally 03:11:46 so this is not a very good example 03:13:39 ^ 03:13:57 ^^ 03:24:36 In general, would using reactive-banana just for its AddHandler be a bad idea? 03:28:47 there's always money in the banana stand 03:29:44 ^^^^^ 03:31:32 So yeah... I'm pretty certain I'm going to bite the LastPass bullet soon 03:35:03 "OpenSSL uses a custom freelist for connection buffers because long ago and far away, malloc was slow." so i think i'd like to declare a blood oath against C 03:35:52 pfft C is easy, just don't make any mistakes ever 03:36:02 you shouldn't be programming if you're the sort of person who would ever make a mistake 03:38:48 also you have to hate the idea of standard libraries? 03:39:13 What sort of vulnerabilities would crypto in Haskell be particularly likely to be vulnerable to, compared to liklihood of vulnerabilties of reimplementation in more conventional languages? 03:39:21 Side-channel attacks based on timing? 03:40:33 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:46:28 The amusing thing about this is, most of these bugs aren't entirely from C being bad, but from the coders being *profoundly moronic and awful*. With C just making the consequences of it worse. 03:48:48 http://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22p50z/sub400_btc_here_we_go/cgp0gwy 03:49:20 Not commenting on the rest of it, but that $500/coin to mine figure, would the cost go down with fewer miners competing? 03:50:25 yeah 03:50:29 others in the thread point this out 03:51:26 the cost per GH/s won't go down, but the revenue per GH/s will go up 03:51:47 or should that just be cost per GH? anyway 03:53:03 ~coins 03:53:04 ~coins 03:53:06 `coins 03:53:07 toadcoin boudcoin falcoin sansiscoin libedtcoin whostepchcoin acfcoin consurfcoin zustcoin patncoin dnagecoin adnestcoin ntcmcoin eloopcoin attoacoin niedcoin revelacoin smyrmatinucoin golcoin devcoin 03:53:30 So much for being unregulatable. One government's actions is enough to drastically hurt the price 03:53:52 which actions are those 03:54:26 http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/04/10/bitcoin-prices-down-10-after-chinese-banks-cut-off-local-exchanges/ 03:54:34 I thought that happened months ago 03:54:38 I guess something new happened 03:54:42 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:55:09 it was always super volatile 03:55:25 "To be fair, if 1 BTC equaled 390 BTC that wouldn't be bad for bitcoin at all." 03:55:29 http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/22q9tr/when_bitcoin_drops_to_390_btc_one_man_dares_to/ 03:56:06 http://i.imgur.com/ZNN5zrn.png good point 03:56:46 lol 03:58:26 It would be nice if the technical stuff behind bitcoin allowed it to be useful without it being a vehicle for continuous speculation 03:58:54 There may be something good about having a cryptocurrency, but I don't think 'wild price changes you may get lucky on' is it 04:00:03 i mean, that's something more specific than continuous speculation 04:00:08 every market has continuous speculation 04:00:20 If you trade bitcoin in real life, its exchange rate will move in real life 04:01:05 -!- conehead has joined. 04:02:09 Is StartSSL still evil? 04:02:39 More so than usual with the recent Heartbleed issue. 04:02:59 I didn't consider it evil before Heartbleed 04:03:16 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 04:03:31 It still disincentivizes good security practices, it just happens to have not been very relevant until just now. :) 04:05:23 The non-existence of free certs also isincentivizes good security practices 04:05:28 *disincentivizes 04:05:45 It's more the complete and utter insanity of the CA system that does that. 04:06:09 "Trust is hard. So trust this list of companies ENTIRELY!" is just... insane. 04:08:36 i,i "truth is hard, so trust these axioms entirely!" 04:09:09 Free certs, are you suggesting we should lower the cost of someone jacking your router from $20 to zero 04:10:04 routerjacking.xxx 04:10:40 yeah, sure would suck if mathematicians dedicated themselves to finding the Right axioms 04:10:46 anyway What Is Life is p. good i recommend it 04:13:09 there is an online catagory theory demonstrator 04:13:47 http://www.j-paine.org/cgi-bin/webcats/webcats.php 04:14:45 Jafet: StartSSL free certs are already accepted by the major OSes/browsers, afaik 04:16:25 Does LastPass have a feature to import saved Chrome passwords? 04:16:28 That would be convenient 04:20:18 I'm still waiting for Honest Lexande's Discount Certificates 04:21:06 -!- variable has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:21:15 Yeah, I should clear out root certs here 04:21:23 Maybe I should remove all root certs 04:21:34 And use certpatrol manually 04:22:01 But first, any root that signs intermediates 04:22:58 `run openssl genrsa -out /tmp/root-ca.key 4096 04:22:59 WARNING: can't open config file: /usr/lib/ssl/openssl.cnf \ Generating RSA private key, 4096 bit long modulus \ ..........++ \ .++ \ e is 65537 (0x10001) 04:23:04 you might even succeed in making SSL annoying enough to use that you just use http intsead 04:24:53 hey has anyone noticed that statistical mechanics is balls out crazy 04:26:04 elliott: to be fair http://i.imgur.com/jfGMMyL.png 04:28:04 `revert 04:28:08 Done. 04:28:24 There, airgapped 04:28:30 brilliant 04:28:40 military grade cryptography 04:29:05 the default is 1024 bits :'( 04:29:41 whast's wrong with 1024 04:29:51 too small 04:30:10 but it's like, ovre twice as much as 400 bits 04:30:18 kmc would prefer 2048 bits 04:30:32 :D 04:31:35 The real thing that surprises me with default military grade being 1024 is that it's not like it would be that expensive for them to say "1024 is accepted but all new keys are 4096" 04:32:59 You don't understand, "military grade" just means "iraqi rebels can't hack into our drones using 20-year-old PCs" 04:33:11 It also sometimes means "RAM heatsinks" 04:33:37 important to stay warm 04:34:12 japanese solid capacitors 04:42:28 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:43:01 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:47:18 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:53:49 -!- oklopol has joined. 04:59:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:12:09 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 05:15:36 -!- variable has joined. 05:15:36 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 05:15:36 -!- variable has joined. 05:22:20 -!- password2 has joined. 05:25:48 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:26:14 -!- ^v has joined. 05:28:58 If Heartbleed is 11 on a scale of 1-10, what is 'mathematicians have found a very fast way to factor any number' be? 05:29:30 420 05:29:40 11*11 05:29:50 well, factorization could be in P without P = NP, right? 05:29:58 yeah 05:30:04 yeah 05:30:15 so you could base a cryptosystem on discrete log or w/e right 05:30:25 yeah 05:30:45 like elliptic curve crypto 05:30:48 RSA is pretty widely used though 05:30:50 i guess "RSA doesn't work" would still be pretty bad, practically speaking, huh 05:30:53 right 05:31:10 it would be pretty bad. but not nearly as bad as "private key crypto doesn't wokr 05:31:40 but it's a lot worse than everyone's private keys getting leaked once 05:34:35 «Note that this final London equation does not contain instantaneous dipoles (see molecular dipoles). The "explanation" of the dispersion force as the interaction between two such dipoles was invented after London arrived at the proper quantum mechanical theory.» can someone explain to me how chemistry, the science, is even possible 05:35:46 Bike: btw you would like quantum crypto 05:35:55 are you sure 05:36:09 that's not a joke or anything it just doesn't seem like i would 05:39:36 i'm reading a seminontechnical schrodinger thing and he more or less gave up on explaining quantum jumps except that they happen, it kind of rules 05:41:27 i like post-quantum crypto 05:44:46 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:49:31 Bike: not totally sure 05:49:36 but I think you would 05:50:03 right now i would like to understand stat mechanics. it seems slightly different from quantum crypto, but then it is connected to info theory... 06:00:30 Statistical mechanics doesn't use much information theory 06:00:43 Just that you try to guess at the microstates from the macrostate 06:01:39 * Bike points at szilard engine 06:01:45 And the lack of knowledge between the two is basically what constitutes entropy 06:11:32 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:14:11 http://copy.sh/v24/ 06:16:21 oh, right. and chemical entropy is shannon entropy times boltzmann. 06:29:29 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 06:31:08 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:31:51 That quit message is racist against chinamen 06:32:03 not the preferred nomenclature 06:33:55 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:34:02 "continually sucking orderliness" 06:34:39 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 06:51:16 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:00:43 [wiki] [[Rebmu]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39283 * Zom-B * (+2118) Created page with "Rebmu is an esoterical code-[[golf]] dialect of Rebol, made by HostileFork. ==Overview== The underlying language is case-insensitive, so it uses CAPSalternationTOseparateTOKE..." 07:00:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:03:51 [wiki] [[Rebmu]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39284&oldid=39283 * Zom-B * (+263) 07:06:12 I don't know if I should try to smuggle that ^ wiki update bridge into the start script of HackEgo, or if that would be presumptuous, or if it's even a good idea in general. 07:12:48 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:21:20 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 07:34:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:46:27 http://xkcd.com/1354/ So how accurate is this 07:49:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:50:40 "Lactarius xanthogalactus" is a pretty effing cool name 07:52:30 Milky weird-milk? 07:53:11 yellow-milked milk-cap 07:53:22 xantho is yellow, not weird 07:53:30 Bike knows 07:53:42 well i got no idea about galactus 07:53:46 other than the planet eater dude 07:55:22 Well, "Galaxy" is from the greek for milky way 07:55:29 I mean, literally "Milky Way" 07:55:51 hum, so it is 07:56:00 yes TIL as well 07:56:07 though it sounds like the kind of thing I would have known and forgotten 07:56:23 but really isn't all learning just remembering 07:56:40 going for the double greek, are we 07:57:51 :D 08:09:34 -!- mtve has quit (Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0). 08:27:00 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:27:58 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:28:09 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:28:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:28:31 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:53:05 -!- cool has joined. 08:53:37 hey did you guys see the european open source meeting talk? 08:55:06 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jQoAYRKqhg 08:58:27 openssl is dead 09:09:00 I wouldn't bet on it 09:11:21 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:35:29 -!- S1 has joined. 09:40:53 -!- cool has quit (Quit: Page closed). 10:02:59 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:15:26 -!- yorick has joined. 10:19:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:29:18 Side-channel attacks based on timing? <-- that's my hunch anyway. 10:30:03 assuming an attacker cannot also track memory use. 10:30:49 I think I've read about things like cache-timing attacks on AES. 10:31:03 Which I guess would be a subclass of "memory use". 10:31:43 fizzie: btw i left out the context that this was about haskell 10:31:52 which is safe in so many other ways. 10:32:29 That's all right, since I did see the context. 10:32:33 ok 10:33:29 that's like tracking memory use _via_ time use... 10:34:26 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 10:39:44 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 10:39:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:47:44 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:48:34 -!- nucular has joined. 10:48:46 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 10:48:47 -!- nucular has joined. 10:49:31 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:50:24 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:52:13 These spam emails from (predominantly Chinese) manufacturers of this and that (mostly) industrial thing are curious. 10:52:35 One wouldn't assume them to have much of a success rate, but maybe it's a large enough epsilon to be worth it. 10:53:42 (Or maybe they have some other purpose. Does anyone know?) 10:53:54 -!- yorick has joined. 10:55:01 Here's a sample I just got, delivered to an obviously-harvested-from-web role address just now: http://sprunge.us/ceGW 10:55:46 they're secretly commands to the chinese hacker botnets, they're just sent indiscriminately so no one will notice where the real machines are hth 11:04:07 tdh 11:05:10 -!- S1 has left. 11:08:45 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has changed nick to Patashu. 11:10:11 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:11:59 -!- password2 has joined. 11:15:34 fizzie: that reminds me of http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/opinion/sunday/the-cybercrime-wave-that-wasnt.html?_r=0 11:36:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 11:46:18 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:48:54 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:52:48 `revert 11:52:50 Done. 11:53:25 @tell Jafet before `reverting, you should check that your command actually changed something, otherwise you'll revert the previous change instead. 11:53:26 Consider it noted. 11:59:23 I see, /tmp isn't tracked 11:59:55 `pwd 11:59:56 ​/hackenv 11:59:59 only that 12:01:06 -!- olsner has joined. 12:11:25 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 12:18:05 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:19:30 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:19:43 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 12:34:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 12:34:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:38:34 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:40:05 -!- password2 has joined. 12:40:23 -!- tromp has joined. 12:45:57 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:46:33 -!- tromp has joined. 12:51:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 12:51:36 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:56:07 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:09:29 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 13:18:56 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 13:20:09 -!- S1 has joined. 13:20:52 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:25:35 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:26:04 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 13:32:51 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 13:55:38 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39285&oldid=39247 * 88.162.181.62 * (+9) 14:06:38 That can't be right, but I don't have time to look into it right now. 14:07:01 (They added "F#" to the language list, but that just works out as a link to F.) 14:07:28 maybe it should be Fsharp 14:08:18 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:08:46 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 14:08:47 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Changing host). 14:08:47 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 14:24:53 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:29:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:30:51 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39286&oldid=39274 * Oerjan * (+95) Move signature to end, question 14:35:02 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39287&oldid=39285 * Oerjan * (-9) Undo revision 39285 by [[Special:Contributions/88.162.181.62|88.162.181.62]] ([[User talk:88.162.181.62|talk]]) (Not esoteric, and the page is not about it.) 14:44:09 -!- ^v has joined. 15:00:24 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 15:15:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:30:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:32:32 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:33:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Client Quit). 16:25:31 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:27:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:27:25 -!- SpaceWizard has joined. 16:33:37 -!- password2 has joined. 16:49:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:04 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:09:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:10:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:11:16 Grumble frumble mips-elf-objdump doesn't have a similar "use information from DYNAMIC phdr entry instead" flag that mips-elf-readelf has; it can't disassemble these binaries at all. (I've used readelf + dd-with-offsets + objdump -b binary as a workaround, but it's very uncomfortable.) 17:13:09 (For one thing, I need to manually cross-reference all GOT offsets and such.) 17:17:12 -!- jconn has joined. 17:17:54 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 17:18:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:22:34 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:35:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:40:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:49:01 Does anyone have experience with compiling BASIC-like Languages to languages without computed gotos? 17:49:11 http://codepad.org/ib8s3lEB <- this approach works 17:49:29 but it's prone to stack overflows 17:50:27 (that's C# btw.) 17:52:30 I also figured I could keep a list of delegates 17:52:41 which tell's me which function I have to call next 17:53:09 that way I could probably avoid that 17:53:33 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:54:30 There's the single-function giant-dispatcher approach. 17:56:32 there is the Statement s = LINE1; while (!quit) { s = s.invoke(); } approach. 17:56:50 (poor man's CPS) 17:58:37 You could also adopt something like the "Cheney on the M.T.A." trick, but it's perhaps not that doable in C#. 17:59:12 http://codepad.org/eSHjKVYa <- this works 17:59:57 keeping a list of delegates. and a GOTO changes the index of the next called function 18:00:25 (and no GOTO just increases the index) 18:01:01 To do something similar I have just used a case block, where the labels are just case and goto is replaced by an assignment and then continue the outer loop. 18:04:49 alright. 18:04:57 I think I can have this thing going by tomorrow :D 18:05:35 aka Write Yourself a crappy BASIC compiler in a day :) 18:09:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:09:52 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:18:46 `coins 18:18:47 imminicoin lnncoin greocoin nyrcoin alpitchcoin smalcoin fortcoin anemailwariathcoin theshccoin chercoin grapecoin wheecoin fernacoin son-textenchcoin longcoin balcoin lintolercoin nesancoin sfulcoin empiuertcoin 18:20:19 smal[l]coin 18:21:05 smellcoin 18:29:41 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:30:44 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:40:19 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39288&oldid=39278 * Zerk * (+10) Clarified indentation slightly; "[same _Y _Y]" is my new favourite way to specify letrec XD 19:01:27 [wiki] [[Nock]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39289 * Zerk * (+1425) TODO: actual article. I think copying the official docs wouldn't be a license conflict? 19:01:44 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39290&oldid=39286 * Zerk * (+415) 19:08:38 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:12:07 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:12:54 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:13:30 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:14:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Client Quit). 19:29:56 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:53:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:55:28 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:57:23 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:26:18 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:34:21 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 20:38:03 what would be a good name for a language based on a statemachine that can be in an arbitrary superposition of states? 20:38:44 THE QUANTUM MACHINE 20:38:52 powerstate machine 20:38:59 The Power 20:39:09 because the state is actually out of the powerset of states, rather than the set, see 20:40:33 ok powerstate it is 20:40:46 -!- password2 has joined. 20:42:16 Its more of a fuzzy powerset really 20:42:32 probability assigned to each state? 20:43:11 The Love Machine 9000 20:43:31 not probability, canonicalness 20:44:02 Uh? 20:44:19 Does this involve a priesT? 20:45:20 its state is holographic so it responds in proportion to how similar it's current state is to the set of states 20:45:32 it makes sense I promis 20:53:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:54:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 21:03:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:03:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:20:42 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:36:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:39:01 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:41:19 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:41:41 -!- ^v has joined. 21:49:35 I found one case in Rust where let mut x = ...; f(x) can end up modifying x 21:49:37 :( 21:51:03 that's one of the worst things about C++, and Rust generally avoids it 21:51:23 well I don't know, there's a lot of competition for "worst things about C++" 21:56:10 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb). 21:57:19 -!- copumpkin has joined. 21:57:39 -!- MoALTz has joined. 21:59:30 C++ killed my parents :( 22:03:10 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to the phone). 22:07:42 -!- drlemon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:08:10 -!- drlemon has joined. 22:08:53 -!- yorick has joined. 22:15:34 [wiki] [[Talk:Nock]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39291 * Doesthiswork * (+172) Created page with "After reading about the Urbit project, Nock and Hoon are definitely esoteric ~~~~" 22:17:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:26:22 [wiki] [[User:Doesthiswork]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39292 * Doesthiswork * (+763) notes on holographic reduced representation 22:39:52 -!- conehead has joined. 22:40:17 -!- tromp has joined. 22:48:02 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:49:07 https://plus.google.com/111605401594472745199/posts/BBarZAT9wCM 22:49:30 :) 22:50:10 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:51:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:58:23 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:10:15 argh easter is next week 23:11:48 * oerjan wows never to trust shop assistants again 23:13:12 (because of this, i might have sent flowers to someone who is already on vacation) 23:14:19 *may 23:21:45 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-04-12: 00:04:16 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:25:05 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 00:26:17 -!- tertu has joined. 00:33:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:33:15 -!- conehead has joined. 00:41:28 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:41:59 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:51:48 -!- TodPunk has joined. 00:59:10 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:08:57 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:09:05 -!- tertu has joined. 01:17:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:20:06 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:41:05 -!- CapitalSigma has joined. 01:41:08 hey all 01:41:38 is there a BNF grammar for brainfuck out there somewhere? 01:43:26 I think it would just be c ::= "[" c "]" | "+" | "-" | "<" | ">" | "," | "." 01:43:27 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:43:41 and a lot of interpreters will accept unbalanced [] until you actually hit them 01:43:52 so it's not clear whether that's a syntax error or a runtime exception 01:44:03 er 01:44:23 c ::= "" | "[" c "]" | "+" c | "-" c | "<" c | ">" c | "," c | "." c 01:48:56 -!- boily has joined. 01:52:31 okay. i'm trying to learn about compilers so i figure that getting a parser+lexer for brainfuck working would be the easiest place to start -- are there any good resources out there? 01:53:08 Ah. What are you trying to write the program in? 01:56:06 brainfuck isn't the kind of language you would use those tools for 01:56:12 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39293&oldid=39288 * Doesthiswork * (+2056) added a simple genetic algorithm as an example 01:56:24 I would start with a simple expression grammar 01:56:39 zzo38: i'm really interested in learning how to use parser-generators, i'm using antlr 01:56:43 Yes it is true you don't need a parser+lexer for brainfuck compiling 01:57:01 parse arithmetic expressions with literals and +-*/ and parentheses 01:57:08 that's kind of the standard first parser project 01:58:41 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39294&oldid=39293 * Doesthiswork * (+7) 01:58:54 okay.... and that would look something like: op ::= "+" | "*" | "/" | "-"; exp ::= exp op exp | id; id ::= [0-9]+; 01:58:57 ? 01:59:20 CapitalSigma: That won't make any precedences. 01:59:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:00:09 I have seen the parser for the OASYS compiler (a text-adventure game system); is not too difficult for understanding. (I have, in fact, rewritten it in BASIC from a printout of the C code, because I didn't have a disk, and on the target computer I didn't have a C compiler.) 02:02:08 -!- ^v has joined. 02:02:33 zzo38: okay. so it needs parens.... i suppose exp ::= "(" exp op exp ")"; would be enough... is there anything that you all recommend i read for starting off? 02:05:37 I actually don't read much about parser either...the only expression parser I really studied much is the one used in OASYS, and didn't find it so difficult. 02:09:15 I have read some books too, telling about LL(1), LR(1), and so on, but I forgot what book it is. 02:09:26 Wikipedia might have some more information. 02:16:58 gotcha, i'll look around, thanks 02:24:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:24:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:45:13 If only NullPointerException was a checked exception... 02:45:54 (Actually that would probably be quite annoying to work with) 02:46:06 Not sure which is worse 02:47:04 if only, if only, the woodpecker sighs 02:49:27 apparently there was a comic charecter named Smokey Stover who called things he didn't know the name of "foo" 02:52:49 the bark on the trees was as soft as the skies 02:54:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 03:02:41 Google seems to disagree on if it's 'trees' or 'tree' 03:03:48 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:06:12 * Sgeo goes to install EclipseFP 03:19:35 -!- SpaceWizard has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:31:23 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:33:05 https://www.cloudflarechallenge.com/heartbleed 03:33:15 So, are they just trying to figure out the plausibility of stolen certificates? 03:37:30 Is it possible for a random third party to hinder Heartbleed attacks slightly by asking for a smaller heartbeat payload than it gives? 03:39:49 What 03:39:55 that sounds hilarious 03:40:50 I don't know what that means, but you could inundate servers with traffic so that single attackers are less likely to find sensitive data amongst all of your buffers 03:41:31 Though, it costs you more traffic to play this game than them. 03:45:31 https://twitter.com/indutny/status/454767565991325697 03:48:52 you have to use www.cloudflarechallenge.com to make it actually work 03:49:04 I think twitter messes with things that look like hostnames 03:49:26 Hovering over the links shows www 03:50:26 What if someone steals the private key from his server 03:50:29 !!! 04:23:30 There is this quotation about Lisp programming: SQL, Lisp, and Haskell are the only programming languages that I've seen where one spends more time thinking than typing. -- Philip Greenspun 04:24:58 Greenspun hasn't seen enough languages 04:26:55 elliott: You are probably correct. 04:29:30 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39295&oldid=39294 * Zerk * (-50) /* Examples */(Decrement) I think I just figured out recursion, correct me if I'm misunderstanding the semantics. 04:36:00 i also get that with brainfuck 04:36:46 Why do you hate FORTRAN so much? 04:39:49 why you want rail for kalashnikov 04:40:44 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:42:10 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39296&oldid=39295 * Zerk * (+50) Undo revision 39295 by [[Special:Contributions/Zerk|Zerk]] ([[User talk:Zerk|talk]]) I do misunderstand the semantics! It would reach the right value, but then unwind back to the original 0 before returning. 04:43:50 I don't know who/what they are. 04:44:43 What do you call a chain A, B, C, ... such that A ⊆ B ⊆ C ⊆ ...? 04:45:11 -!- ^v has joined. 04:47:39 why do i hate fortran so much 04:48:17 -!- password2 has joined. 04:48:33 shachaf: descending chain? or what 04:48:46 maybe 04:48:54 i guess chain is the actual term 04:49:02 also why is it descending and not ascending 04:49:17 look, i'm not noether 05:00:36 How can you make a programming language where the types are Hoare triples? 05:00:41 It occurs to me that I'm already using an entirely online password manager, completely unencrypted 05:00:59 (At least, I think it's unencrypted) 05:02:21 -!- adu has joined. 05:06:27 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39297&oldid=39296 * Doesthiswork * (-2065) removed the GA example after concluding that it is a mess semantically 05:12:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:14:24 Google already has my passwords, why not LastPass? 05:15:58 Chrome is unecrypted by default but you can encrypt them if you'd like. 05:16:11 I believe the local store is encrypted though; the encryption option just affects the syncing 05:18:52 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:19:33 Is it possible to do sequent calculus with only bound variables and no free variables (so that free variables are ungrammatical)? 05:21:29 been too long since I've seen sequent calculus 05:27:09 I try to think of a way 05:43:14 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 05:46:38 -!- tertu has joined. 06:06:38 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:10 -!- tromp has joined. 06:09:23 whoa, you gave your password to google?!@# 06:11:06 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:14:11 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:18:22 newsham: it's what happens when you decide to use gmail. 06:21:05 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:34:03 cant you tell them you want to use gmail but you dont want to give them your pw? 06:35:56 The trouble is that most services that use authentication persistently insist that you should allow them to delegate the authentication to google. 06:37:26 Hmm, I wonder if I could simply point them at foo@example.com. (Probably not; IANA has a server there.) 06:38:09 most services i've seen dont delegate auth to google 06:38:39 you know what pisses me off lately? hotmail and google and others pestering me constantly to link a cell phone number to my account 06:38:57 They do, but have a strange name for this--"Forgot your password?" 06:42:39 yah well hotmail locked me out of my account for a month because i didnt have a cell phone number in case I "forgot my password" 06:42:48 so whats more dangerous, forgetting my password, or hotmail? 06:43:57 in a few days when its finally available again i can start migrating all my accounts off of that email addr 06:45:26 Those are two opposite kinds of danger. I don't know how forgetful you are, but I create passwords algorithmically so "forgetting" them is not an issue. The only issue, then, is email. 06:46:07 Import Your Contacts From Gmail 06:50:05 import your contacts from the depths of hell 07:05:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:06:42 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:10:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:42:01 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39298&oldid=39290 * Zerk * (+2165) /* Implicit evaluation */ new section 07:50:59 is it just me or does smartboxes look to useful to be an esolang? :D 07:59:14 The lead mentions Kay, so it is esoteric pretty much by construction 08:00:57 'kay 08:01:37 O(Kay) 08:03:05 is that good or bad? 08:10:17 O(k) 08:11:21 myname: it's an upper bound, so anything except good? (unless good is small, then anything except bad) 08:11:23 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 08:22:06 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:27:41 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 08:32:00 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:34:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:09:33 -!- tromp has joined. 09:09:42 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:10:20 -!- tromp has joined. 09:14:41 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:39:44 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:48:00 -!- yorick has joined. 09:59:12 http://sprunge.us/WRGj That's quite the regexp. 10:03:47 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 10:04:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 10:14:16 well, pretty simple, though 10:14:49 not like that deprecated expression for email addresses 10:43:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 10:48:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 11:03:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:04:27 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:08:26 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:08:38 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:27:37 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:43:51 -!- Melvar` has joined. 11:44:45 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:45:26 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 11:56:43 -!- Melvar` has changed nick to Melvar. 11:57:32 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 12:24:42 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:32:29 -!- boily has joined. 12:34:19 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:36:30 [wiki] [[Boxy]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39299 * Zerk * (+2725) Spec fork! 12:44:14 Oh, fancy 12:50:11 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 12:50:53 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:50:53 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 12:50:53 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:54:42 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:05:31 Hmm. My 16 GB CF card has turned into a 2 TB CF card. 13:05:55 [3432361.978679] sd 11:0:0:0: [sde] 3842213123 512-byte logical blocks: (1.96 TB/1.78 TiB) 13:06:08 That's what it says when I plug it into a card reader. 13:06:17 wow, that's some luck 13:06:31 olsner: Less lucky is that any IO access to it just hangs indefinitely. 13:07:12 Oh, it wasn't indefinitely; but it does go all http://sprunge.us/Meab after a long delay. 13:07:17 Some manufacturers inflate the apparent capacity of their flash devices, but this is somewhat excessive 13:07:39 It does manage to read the partition table off, so maybe a dd on the first 16 gigs could work. 13:08:12 Jafet: it's only a 7 order of magnitude error. nothing to worry about. 13:10:10 dd of the first partition (there seems to be three) at least seems to be working. fdisk didn't, but maybe it was trying to check something at the end of the disk. 13:11:29 (Okay, it's only reading 100 kilobytes/sec, but that still counts as working, I guess.) 13:13:31 `frink 16 gigabytes / (100 kilobytes/s) 13:13:36 160000 s (time) 13:13:44 That's only 46 hours to read the 16 gigs that should be there, and a further 220 days to see what's on the rest of the two terabytes. 13:14:02 piece of cake 13:15:57 so does the data that you get off the drive make sense? 13:17:11 hmm, for some reason I could see immediately that 160000s is about two days, but had to think a long while to realize that 46h is also about two days 13:22:35 int-e: I haven't looked yet. But it had the same number of partitions, so presumably at least the first sector was correct. 13:23:07 ok. anyway, good luck :) 13:23:09 Same number that I expected it to have, that is. 13:23:56 There's nothing terribly important in there; it used to be the "hard disk" of a computer, I was just missing some scripts and crontabs I think were in /root which I didn't copy back when the card was working normally. 13:36:40 140345856 bytes (140 MB) copied, 1327.63 s, 106 kB/s 13:37:02 -!- nucular has joined. 13:38:09 Contents seem correct, too. Except that sde1 was apparently /boot, so they're not exactly useful. 14:02:12 -!- tertu has joined. 14:14:10 -!- ^v has joined. 14:19:18 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:38:44 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:45:01 -!- password2 has joined. 14:49:59 -!- tromp has joined. 15:00:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:07:20 -!- password2 has left ("Leaving"). 15:16:12 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:37:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:42:44 -!- erdic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:43:46 -!- erdic has joined. 15:45:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:13:49 Also got http://sprunge.us/aFOb during a scheduled check of a backup disk, which doesn't sound good. 16:20:48 I can never figure out how to read this smartctl output. :/ 16:28:34 LBA numbers, right next to planck units and ancient greek cubits 16:28:42 gsmartctl helps 16:29:20 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 16:30:42 Is it a graphical something? The disk is not on a computer with X libraries or anything. 16:31:11 It is a gtk something 16:31:58 I don't even know if big numbers or small numbers are good for these translated ones. 16:32:07 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 16:32:11 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:32:39 Well, you could keep mashing the drive and check if the number increases. 16:34:04 I guess I'll run the self-tests, since those at least should say something reasonable, hopefully. 16:34:54 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:35:01 Reallocated_Sector_ct has a velue of "200", worst of "200", threshold of "140" and a raw value of "1". 16:38:08 `run echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x398e4f53fa300000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc m.c -o m && ./m 16:38:09 gcc: error: m.c: No such file or directory \ gcc: fatal error: no input files \ compilation terminated. 16:38:20 `run echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x398e4f53fa300000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m 16:38:21 ​/tmp/m.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/m.c:6:17: warning: missing terminating " character [enabled by default] \ /tmp/m.c:6:2: error: missing terminating " character \ /tmp/m.c:7:1: warning: missing terminating " character [enabled by default] \ /tmp/m.c:7:1: error: missing terminating " character \ /tmp/m.c:7:1: error: expected expression at 16:39:18 `run echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x1000000000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m 16:39:19 0x1000000000 Success 16:39:31 Ok, seeing the reactive-banana guy act like an idiot makes me sad 16:39:33 `run echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x1000000000000, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m 16:39:34 0xffffffffffffffff Cannot allocate memory 16:39:44 Weird. 16:40:33 `run echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \n#include \nmain(){\n void *p = mmap((void*)0x1000000000000ull, 4096, PROT_NONE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANON|MAP_FIXED, -1, 0);\n return !printf("%p %s\\n", p, strerror(errno)); }\n' > /tmp/m.c && gcc /tmp/m.c -o /tmp/m && /tmp/m 16:40:33 0xffffffffffffffff Cannot allocate memory 16:40:48 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/22udou/heartbleed_aftermath_should_haskell_web/ 16:44:10 Jafet: Wouldn't 0x1'0000'0000'0000 fail the canonical-address test? 16:46:12 Huh, there are such things as canonical addresses. 16:46:14 "In addition, the AMD specification requires that bits 48 through 63 of any virtual address must be copies of bit 47 (in a manner akin to sign extension), or the processor will raise an exception.[1](p131) Addresses complying with this rule are referred to as "canonical form."[1](p130) Canonical form addresses run from 0 through 00007FFF'FFFFFFFF, and from FFFF8000'00000000 through ... 16:46:20 ... FFFFFFFF'FFFFFFFF, for a total of 256 TB of usable virtual address space." 16:46:34 Bits don't grow on trees, you know! 16:46:36 I thought CPUs were more clever about masking the unimplemented address lines. 16:46:44 FFFFFFFF'UUUUUUUU 16:47:07 They're clever about hiding unimplemented physical address lines. 16:47:46 L/ 16:47:59 That was meant to be an emoticon but I am too tired 16:48:59 otoh, I bought a new comic :) 16:49:17 They're less clever about the virtual address space limit, which I gather has something to do with saving area on the chip. (As well as maybe some page table -related things?) 16:50:12 Fun fact: Intel manuals allow for up to 52-bit physical addresses even while the linear addresses are restricted to 48 bits. 16:51:12 48-bit PAE... they think ahead, don't they. 16:52:52 Man, I feel like crap 16:54:10 the canonical address thing is done on purpose 16:54:24 so that people don't use the unused bits for tag bits (without masking) 16:54:34 so that the virtual address space can be extended later without breaking shit 16:54:59 Spoilsports 16:55:07 i know, right? 16:55:12 imo there should at least be a way to disable it 16:55:27 some people care a whole lot about speed and not at all about binary forwards-compatibility 16:55:39 there's probably a secret MSR or something 16:55:55 Even a translation of a 48-bit virtual address involves quite a lot of pointers. The CR3 register points at the start of the PML4 table; bits 39..47 of the address select an entry of it pointing at a Page-Directory-Pointer Table; bits 30..38 select an entry of it pointing at a Page-Directory Table; bits 21..29 select an entry of it pointing at a Page Table; bits 12..20 select an entry of it ... 16:56:01 ... pointing to a physical page; and bits 0..11 are an offset within the page. 16:56:29 kind of bugs me that they all have names instead of just being level4 .. level1 16:56:46 "PML4" has a 4 in it, at least. 16:56:49 yeah 16:57:02 I'd like to see them invent names for all similar tables of a full 64-bit setup. 16:57:14 don't give them any ideas 16:57:19 Although, you could map identical ranges that have a tag bit on and off to the same underlying pages 16:57:31 yeah 16:57:36 I've wondered if there are programs that do that 16:57:39 Might screw with the tlb, but isn't it worth it 16:57:57 Just set the "Page-Directory-Selector-Index-Hyperpage-Pointer" suitably and... 16:58:06 also do you know the trick about having a page directory table entry that points back to the page directory table? 16:58:28 the PDT and PT records have a similar layout 16:59:12 Who would you trick with that 16:59:21 if you use the PDT as a PT, then you've mapped all the PTs as pages in virtual memory 17:01:54 Taneb: why do you feel like crap? :/ 17:02:43 Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error 17:02:47 # 1 Short offline Completed: read failure 80% 26750 470670340 17:02:50 I'm going to call it broken. 17:02:52 I was meeting from friends and I kind of abandoned them and I feel bad about it 17:03:55 oh 17:04:38 fizzie: eek 17:05:42 Taneb: eek. 17:10:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:11:02 > 1 -- did I break this? 17:11:02 1 : Integer 17:11:03 mueval-core: GhcException "cannot satisfy -package lens\n (use -v for mor... 17:11:13 obviously. bah. 17:12:50 Why do Intel make it too complicated/confusing? 17:13:56 @run 1 17:13:58 1 17:14:37 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:15:36 Hah, there was a 36-month warranty on the disk, and it ended three weeks ago. 17:16:18 fizzie: nice 17:16:24 Man, those engineers are good when it comes to planned obsolescence. 17:16:32 Dangerous level of competency here. 17:19:52 > "hi bots" 17:19:53 "hi bots" : String 17:19:54 "hi bots" 17:25:24 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:29:31 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:32:27 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: 7.8.1 -> 7.8.2). 17:34:18 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:37:06 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:41:15 * boily lightly pokes lambdabot 17:41:43 @tell idris-ircslave hello! 17:41:44 Consider it noted. 17:44:31 > "hi fungot" 17:44:31 "hi fungot" : String 17:44:31 kmc: those wallpapers have fnord. python has no semicolons, but mandatory newlines and indentation. 17:44:32 "hi fungot" 17:44:55 python does have semicolons 17:46:20 fungot: if Python has semicolons, does it mean that wallpapers are fnordless? 17:46:27 ;-;^ 17:46:37 I wanted ^;-;^ 17:46:46 ^;-;^? 17:47:06 fungot: I'm talking to you, you uncouth bot! 17:47:06 boily: if all the benchmarks were implemented. the shared state was very clearly isolated in both scheme48 t ( except in summer when i earn nothing 17:47:21 fungot: ah. summer internship? 17:47:21 boily: that doesn't render correctly here." " n=1" " n=2" " n=3" " n=4" " n=5" " n=6"... etc. 17:48:02 int-e: is that a vampire bat 17:48:13 fungot: are you a vampire bat 17:48:13 kmc: strange labels like spells and magic recipes?" but i don't 17:48:40 hi boily 17:48:44 kmc: you're good. 17:48:45 hintopia! 17:48:48 happyy saturday 17:49:02 today is a day for being tired 17:49:16 today is a day to be smooth and drink coffee. 17:49:29 i drank some coffee 17:49:42 it was almost two weeks old and gross 17:49:52 * int-e ponders compiling a couple more ghcs 17:49:55 but it was hot and caffeiney 17:50:02 * int-e should probably change some passwords instead 17:50:18 two. weeks. old. coffee. I am impressed. 17:50:36 i hope i don't die 17:51:04 . o O ( please tell us if you do ) 17:51:43 I hope you're going to live through the Experience, then pen a beautiful, heart-wrenching Memoir about it. 17:51:50 i'll be sure to put it in my will 17:52:06 "here's my password. get on all my networks and tell them i'm dead please and how i died." 17:52:29 is your password hunter2weekOldCoffee? 17:53:38 what do you mean *******weekOldCoffee? 17:53:45 The thought of dying from stale coffee is enough to keep one awake at night. 17:53:46 it was almost two weeks old 17:55:29 still better than 2weakOldCoffee 17:56:26 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:57:24 it wasn't weak 17:57:28 it was strong 17:57:35 but it wasn't quite coffee either 17:57:46 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:18 -!- tromp has joined. 17:58:35 -!- conehead has joined. 17:59:47 meanwhile, I just finished a full pot of http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/60241389/?query=UPPHETTA 18:02:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:09:16 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:21:52 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: utf8 woes). 18:23:53 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:24:00 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 18:24:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:26:09 -!- lambdabot has joined. 18:40:46 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 18:58:14 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:05:04 Did you look at Nock? (there is now an article on esolang wiki, and a talk page with a comment on it) 19:15:12 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:17:55 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:25:15 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:25:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:43:46 `coins 19:43:48 eta-julinersuscoin arcallyidocoin unshicoin stanacoin trocoin inforkcoin ringvilcoin unlamcoin crambdcoin uncecoin hcmoncoin keliucoin briacoin blocoin msglecoin wobtucoin kimossercoin waiperlinecoin ennecoin etchellcoin 19:44:01 The first one sounds good. 19:45:18 `cats 19:45:19 meow meow meow meow 19:45:33 `coins --swedish 19:45:33 kommaservägacoin 19:45:44 `coins --swedish 20 19:45:44 puscoin varscoin härtatcoin äkterskådandlatcoin böncoin bestallatcoin opencoin livitcoin uddeställcoin avböjtscoin frisioneracoin tonårcoin återscoin stancoin kokosympacoin omväxlincoin natikuslingcoin gunviscoin elväggnacoin ausarnacoin 19:45:49 `cats --swedish 19:45:50 ​/usr/bin/tail: option used in invalid context -- 1 19:46:37 two of those were beancoin and teenagecoin in swedish 19:47:27 deniedcoin/rejectedcoin too 19:47:47 `coins --finnish 20 19:47:48 mattomuutomimpänäcoin kireammecoin läpäivässännecoin persovemacoin loppiincoin humistävänäncoin tuneimpinallecoin seksennecoin upottelicoin herkkostansacoin kivaimpianicoin innöiltacoin kailemmecoin puuteleviävistäsicoin joutsuttavammottuvistacoin kiipeimmiltacoin alustammecoin oikografisimmassacoin havastustamincoin pöydäntegiasicoin 19:48:44 `coins --klingon 20 19:48:45 Unknown option: klingon 19:48:53 `coins --welsh 20 19:48:54 Unknown option: welsh 19:52:46 `coins --chinese 20 19:52:46 Unknown option: chinese 19:52:53 `coins --french 20 19:52:54 babiliocoin nanisercoin desgotricanglecoin recencoin glriencoin lyeaucoin mbuscoin repréexprivacoin cudentcoin trèsfactécoin lilécoin regacoin siminuovecoin tewarolencoin procoin uivcoin clorescoin dêlecoin édouvecoin pérecoin 19:53:03 "2379071488 bytes (2.4 GB) copied, 22536.1 s, 106 kB/s" fastest CF card in the West 19:54:12 only 13.6GB left of the 16GB card then? 19:55:49 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone). 19:56:21 -!- Sgeo|iPad has joined. 19:57:13 Stupidly went to another town' s AT&T store without my computer to wait two hours for my phone to be repaired 19:59:10 at&t store, that exists? 19:59:58 Yes. There's one near where I live and one in this other town that is an expensive cab ride away 20:04:18 olsner: Something like that. I had to stop temporarily to reboot. 20:04:50 Sgeo|iPad: what was wrong with the one where you live? 20:04:53 !ping 20:04:55 olsner: (Also for some reason the new 3.13.x kernel Debian had installed hangs in the "waiting for /dev to be fully populated..." at boot; the old 3.12.x worked.) 20:04:58 Pong! 20:05:12 They directed me to come to this one 20:05:16 (Today's apparently the National Computer Problems Day.) 20:05:23 Or leave phone with the. 20:05:32 With them overnight which I didn't want to do 20:11:50 -!- Sgeo|iPad has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:12:35 -!- tromp_ has quit. 20:19:18 -!- aergus has joined. 20:26:31 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 20:28:21 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:42:55 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:25 fizzie: isn't the "problems" redundant there?! 20:48:00 -!- heroux has joined. 20:49:29 I guess so. After all, "computer" is a Navajo word meaning "the cause of problems". (Not true.) 20:51:42 Ut oh, now the CF card reading has stopped. 20:56:39 Help I accidentally qualified for the google code jam 20:56:44 None of you make the joke please 21:01:06 -!- tromp has joined. 21:02:33 Taneb: damn. what joke? 21:03:34 "is it good on code toast"/"i prefer code marmalade" etc 21:03:58 Didn't get phone fixed 21:04:08 ah. food programming. spaghetti code. 21:04:12 They said need to order a new part to do it safely 21:04:13 Me neither, Sgeo 21:04:47 I don't feel like ordering a new part, going to some place again, blah 21:04:53 Might just buy a new phone 21:05:06 But I don't want to get into the habit of buying a phone just because the old one broke slightly 21:06:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:11:57 -!- Koen_ has joined. 21:12:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:24:00 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:50:19 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:51:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:56:15 Ok, seeing the reactive-banana guy act like an idiot makes me sad <-- yeah people who aren't perfect all the time are so stupid 21:56:42 (i noticed those comments too btw.) 21:57:39 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 21:57:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:06:51 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 22:06:53 * int-e ponders compiling a couple more ghcs <-- what, are you updating lambdabot to 6.8.2 already? :) 22:07:07 oops 22:07:11 *7.8.2 22:07:28 I think 6.8.2 was the first GHC version I used. 22:07:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:09:41 oerjan: already done 22:10:08 19:32:27 --- lambdabot has quit [Quit: 7.8.1 -> 7.8.2] 22:10:16 (CET) 22:10:20 smashing 22:10:58 i vaguely recall lambdabot used to be several versions behind 22:11:00 I was amazed, all dependencies already worked, I only had to patch lambdabot itself. 22:11:13 yay 22:12:03 they seem to be getting good at updating packages for big releases 22:12:06 there was only this small problem related to role annotations: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/dc7ee36480a3e2b4e1b25d0022de72b764029bf7 22:13:36 (I'm waiting for somebody to figure out that not being able to infer a representational role for the return value of monad transformers is actually quite annoying.) 22:13:44 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39300&oldid=39299 * Zerk * (+2358) Examples! 22:14:02 well, s/monad transformer/concrete monad stack/ 22:14:59 int-e: hm indeed, i'd have expected m to have the nominal role if any? 22:15:13 not that i really understand roles yet 22:15:21 (Oh. LB a = StateT State IO a, for some datatype State) 22:15:35 I want a to be representational there. 22:15:46 right 22:16:26 And it's not because the monad transformer uses 'm a' for unknown 'm', forcing the argument to be nominal (that's the only safe choice in general). 22:16:59 you can't force m to be representational instead? 22:17:09 -!- aergus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:17:30 or maybe they simplified the role system so much they cannot express that. 22:17:35 hmm. what do roles even mean for things of kind other than *? 22:17:43 (i.e. plain types) 22:18:14 or perhaps more relevantly, what does m ~ n mean if m,n : * -> *? 22:18:14 i'd imagine that it should mean that m is something that is representational if its argument is 22:18:33 gah too much brain 22:20:06 i suppose they'll be forced to implement role polymorphism eventually >:) 22:22:00 int-e: you changed lim80! the end of an era 22:22:25 lambdabot: @run 123 22:22:26 123 22:22:28 what's lim80 22:22:31 whoa. 22:22:40 the two-space days are over. 22:22:44 oerjan: lambdabot's output limiting command 22:22:57 right, i thought he did that a while ago 22:23:05 oerjan: it's the thing that makes lambdabot cut off > [1..] far too early, but lets you flood the channel with N lines of error. 22:23:11 elliott: but you get 80 characters on each line! 22:23:25 rather than 80, total. 22:23:25 > [1..] 22:23:27 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... 22:23:35 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 22:23:47 D: 22:23:49 int-e: now just rewrite @run to use repl and support user-local definitions and you'll be ahead of not only what I actually did, but my plans as well. 22:23:49 oops 22:23:51 *:D 22:25:11 elliott: that sounds like work though 22:25:26 int-e: but it was sooooo fast 22:25:34 and soooo brittle. so many ways to crash that thing 22:26:43 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39301&oldid=39298 * Doesthiswork * (+866) 22:26:49 oerjan: I did that in December last year. 22:27:03 yep, that's a while ago ok 22:27:26 yeah, but I didn't look at the log until now. 22:27:55 @faq 22:27:56 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 22:27:59 nice. 22:28:08 elliott: the branch I'm actually using is called 'config' btw. that's where all the nasty changes are hidden. 22:28:17 (like this change to @faq) 22:28:33 I think you should upstream config stuff 22:28:47 there's no reason the default config and rc and stuff \bot ships with should differ from what actually runs on lambdabot 22:29:21 I have to admit that the actual configuration is not even checked in. I should really do that. 22:29:51 (and I have to clean up the utf8 changes very slightly and put them on master) 22:30:27 oh, you ported it to UTF-8?!?! 22:30:38 I started to do that but it was such a massive effort to untangle what's really a bytestring and what's really text 22:30:51 at one point @run was broken because of double-encoding or something like that 22:31:11 elliott: not really. ghc-7.8 now uses utf-8 quotes ... 22:31:15 @type huh 22:31:16 Not in scope: ‘huh’ 22:31:24 ah. 22:31:31 like there. so I patched @eval and @type where it leaked through 22:31:31 so just a @run-local hack 22:31:39 no, @eval is something else entirely :) 22:31:41 ah. @run. right 22:31:48 (it should stop being something else entirely and become @run instead) 22:31:57 (well, it's more like nothing else entirely.) 22:32:08 I know, but I will probably continue to mix them up. 22:32:13 @evil plans 22:32:24 @list eval 22:32:24 eval provides: run let define undefine 22:32:28 @help eval 22:32:28 eval. Do nothing (perversely) 22:33:30 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39302&oldid=39301 * Zerk * (+222) /* Implicit evaluation */ 22:34:03 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39303&oldid=39302 * Zerk * (+73) Forgot to sign 22:41:59 elliott: https://github.com/int-e/lambdabot/commit/e4c4c70c41f79d497bc59e381552d5b6b3c44d38 is the actual configuration 22:42:07 (you may like the scripts) 22:42:42 wow, you refactored it and everything. 22:43:08 online.rc, I mean. 22:43:26 is the nickserv password still, erm, *that*? 22:43:44 I think so. There was no reason to change it. 22:44:24 yes, I refactored online.rc, because I actually have two of them, one using a DNS name for freenode, and the other using an IP. I grew tired of keeping them in sync. 22:44:37 why two? 22:44:42 as in, what's the point of the IP one? 22:44:51 IP works better when Freenode is under DDoS attack 22:44:55 ah 22:45:10 it should support a list of addresses for a server :) 22:46:10 And the screen session setup should actually be invoked automatically when the server reboots. I have not tested that though. 22:46:24 int-e: incidentally, what with the rate of owner turnover, I think lambdabot's 100% loyalty rating could use a reassessment. 22:46:36 good point 22:46:46 _|_% ?! 22:47:18 int-e: make it pick a random number on startup! 22:47:41 just move that into an -e rather than the .rc. 22:50:15 hmm, I wonder if I have a binary clock, or if I'm remembering someone else's 22:50:17 I guess laziness and purity wins that fight: It has already been evaluated to 100%, it'll stay that way. 23:09:37 @google lamdu 23:09:37 https://github.com/Peaker/lamdu 23:10:20 shachaf: ^^^ HTTP does not support https out of the box, but at least it does not error out anymore. 23:10:37 http-conduit does https 23:36:25 [wiki] [[User:Doesthiswork]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39304&oldid=39292 * Oerjan * (+1) I don't normally edit user pages but that's a broken link. 23:49:07 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 23:49:16 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:50:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:51:30 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 23:52:06 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:58:18 -!- xpte has joined. 2014-04-13: 00:18:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:18:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 00:21:30 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:22:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 00:23:12 -!- tromp has joined. 00:25:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:25:07 Many text adventure games use a virtual machine, which is then run in the interpreter. I have a bit different idea, to instead make a intermediate code, which is then compiled by the OEM into the proper code for the machine and then put into a disk, tape, ROM cartridge, or internet. Probably it would run faster like that and possibly smaller file too. 00:25:33 So, it is compiled into a 6502 code, x86 code, or possibly even a C code. 00:25:53 I imagine it wouldn't matter too much though -- zcode tends to be pretty swift on most platforms. :) 00:30:29 Yes, it is; I have written interpreters for Z-code. 00:32:24 There is, though, also TADS, Glulx, Level 9 A-code, OASYS, and others. (I have worked with OASYS, too; it is designed to be interpreted but could be compiled too due to its Restricted-Harvard format.) 00:34:23 But most of them have some complexity involved, so a simpler format can be made, and make it fit on smaller ROM cartridges. Some older computers don't have lowercase, and omit some other ASCII characters too; using only uppercase and also improve text compression. (Z-machine version 3 can run on uppercase-only computers, but mixed-case text is still needed in the story file.) 00:36:05 Are you familiar with Linus Akesson's Zeugma? 00:36:11 Yes, I know of it. 00:36:30 I also, made part of a Z-machine interpreter for Famicom, myself. 00:36:45 (which isn't tested and probably contains many errors) 00:38:26 Here is the entire code so far of Famicom Z-machine: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Famicom_Z-machine 00:39:18 I believe Zeugma is for version 4, 5, 8. My program is for version 1, 2, 3. 00:41:26 Many Z-machine interpreters contain errors. 00:41:40 Hardly any implements permanent shifts correctly. 00:43:06 How many examples of version 1-3 Z-code are there? 00:43:26 Small handful of early Infocom games? 00:44:01 There are many, actually. 00:44:11 I think most Infocom games are version 3 00:45:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:45:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 00:49:02 Tell me if you find my program to be OK and/or anything you think is wrong with it, please. 00:54:38 A compiled system would probably work better though, especially if it is far simpler than Z-machine. 00:55:51 -!- adu has joined. 01:00:42 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:02:56 How many different SQL "CREATE FUNCTION" syntaxes are there? 01:03:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Night). 01:06:25 There seems to be a lot of different ones, and there are more differences when aggregate functions are involved too. 01:10:45 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:13:43 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:21:43 http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/01/microsoft-pimps-it-old-school-with-a-pricey-text-adventure-game/ 01:24:16 this is disappointing. 01:31:57 -!- drlemon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:32:00 -!- drlemon_ has joined. 01:56:46 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:57:29 Sgeo: :D 01:59:30 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:06:57 -!- adu has joined. 02:09:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:26:29 -!- SleepyPikachu has joined. 02:26:45 -!- SleepyPikachu has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:42:47 I'm guess Erlang is a language that you don't want to use as just a general make-yourself-a-better-programmer language? At least, I have a feeling that let-it-crash may be a bad idea to bring into non-Erlang ecosystems 02:43:18 i'm a pretty big fan of let-it-crash tbh 02:43:33 But does that work outside of Erlang? 02:44:25 you can design systems that way in any language(s) 02:44:29 erlang may make it easier 02:44:39 functional programming in C is also quite popular 02:45:52 Maybe I should get more understanding of let it crash 02:46:16 I guess a cryptographic primitive that fails quickly and blatantly if a precondition isn't met is an example? 02:46:23 well i don't know the finer points of it eithe 02:46:24 r 02:46:30 Rust lost linked task failure :/ 02:46:34 Functional programming in C? But, then you would need a user-parameter. 02:46:37 it's a real pita 02:46:37 Isn't it? 02:46:45 i just imagine myself standing over a flaming computer and laughing 02:46:47 zzo38: yeah, and void* user parameters are quite popular 02:46:53 YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED 02:46:57 although it's kind of a joke to call that functional programming 02:47:12 people don't much write higher order combinators around their closure structs in C 02:47:19 even people who went to MIT 02:47:24 kmc: Yes, a lot of SQLite API functions that will call back functions, will have void* user parameters. 02:47:55 I know it isn't real functional programming, but it would be one thing you would require, if you are to start trying to make functional programming in a C code. 02:52:15 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Extwo * New user account 02:58:53 And still it isn't quite real function programming; functional programming isn't a C code anyways! 03:04:07 the functional programming that can be spoken of is not the true functional programming 03:04:54 Now I made this "text adventure intermediate language". It has 36 opcodes (actually, 90 if you count the operand size bits), although some don't need to be implemented. It is possible for SAVE, LPTON, LPTOFF, PICTURE to all be no-operations; it is OK for QUIT and RESET to have the same operation as each other, and if SAVE isn't implement, RESTORE? can act the same as JUMP. 03:06:33 Binary and decimal numbers are treated differently, for compatibility with computers where such a thing would help. 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[[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39306&oldid=39303 * Doesthiswork * (+541) 05:54:09 -!- rodgort has joined. 06:02:37 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:08:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:16:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:16:29 I think I want to know the context of every line of the Picard Song 06:19:43 int-e: Hoorint-e! 06:37:42 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:02:13 -!- MoALTz has joined. 07:04:29 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:07:36 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:15:22 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 07:18:54 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest46968. 07:30:45 -!- erdic has quit (Changing host). 07:30:45 -!- erdic has joined. 07:35:29 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 07:36:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:48:34 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:48:49 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 07:55:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:07:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:14:41 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partition sde2 extracted successfully overnight; turned out to be the / partition; had the crontab I was looking for, but scripts were in /home/foo for a system user foo, in flagrant disregard of FHS; now reading the rest. 09:33:25 (Disclaimer: I don't know if FHS really says anything about that, but I imagine it might.) 09:35:41 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 09:50:10 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 09:59:44 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:06:14 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:09:55 -!- password2 has joined. 10:20:00 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:25:31 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 10:25:31 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:28:52 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:31:58 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:34:03 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:34:24 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 10:34:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:39:37 -!- password2 has left ("Leaving"). 10:39:51 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:43:13 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:46:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:48:24 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:51:40 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 10:51:40 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:56:05 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Client Quit). 11:05:31 -!- yorick has joined. 11:08:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:14:33 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 11:14:44 -!- boily has joined. 11:15:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:16:55 @tell zzo38 [...] SAVE, LPTON, LPTOFF, PICTURE <-- you need a HDRON too hth 11:16:56 Consider it noted. 11:17:26 lambdabot: you seem slow. 11:17:26 LPTON ICE 11:18:07 i know it is evil to pun zzo but i couldn't resist 11:19:21 BRYON and MSON are optional. 11:20:01 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 11:20:02 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 11:20:37 Hadroff 11:21:17 sounds a bit like barking 11:21:50 oerjan: it's hard to tell who is slow on IRC 11:22:21 (from here, the @tell and lambdabot's reply both had timestamp 13:16:55) 11:22:27 hm there's a big split gap in the logs 11:22:52 int-e: ok 11:23:00 Someone spammed freenode. 11:23:15 Jafet: big news 11:25:10 oh. impressive spew of k-lines. 11:26:53 Yes. In other big news, Afghanistan held presidential elections for the first time in modern history. 11:32:42 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 11:35:18 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:36:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 11:36:39 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 11:37:49 hm clog and glogbot were in different fragments but neither registered any talking. almost everyone who split split from both. 11:38:33 20:36:03 --- quit: drlemon_ (*.net *.split) 11:38:34 20:36:04 --- quit: jconn (*.net *.split) 11:38:34 20:36:07 --- quit: impomatic (*.net *.split) 11:38:34 20:36:08 --- quit: trout (*.net *.split) 11:38:34 20:36:08 --- quit: scoff (*.net *.split) 11:38:36 20:36:09 --- quit: glogbot (*.net *.split) 11:38:38 20:36:11 --- quit: nisstyre (*.net *.split) 11:38:41 20:36:11 --- quit: tromp_ (*.net *.split) 11:38:43 20:36:11 --- quit: heroux (*.net *.split) 11:38:44 ... 11:38:46 20:36:11 --- quit: Melvar (*.net *.split) 11:38:48 20:36:12 --- quit: zzo38 (*.net *.split) 11:38:51 20:36:12 --- quit: TodPunk (*.net *.split) 11:38:53 20:36:13 --- quit: shachaf (*.net *.split) 11:38:54 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie. 11:38:56 20:36:14 --- quit: applybot (*.net *.split) 11:38:58 20:36:15 --- quit: jix (*.net *.split) 11:39:00 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +q oerjan!*@*. 11:39:08 (I assume a mispaste.) 11:39:19 Let's see if the faucet is still on. 11:39:20 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -q oerjan!*@*. 11:39:21 20:36:23 --- quit: ggherdov (*.net *.split) 11:39:23 -!- oerjan has left. 11:39:47 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie. 11:39:56 That was spectacular. 11:40:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:40:28 i hope parting flushed that buffer 11:40:39 Seems to have. 11:40:39 i have no idea what command does it. 11:41:01 i thought irssi was supposed to have protection against this D: 11:41:37 also this touchpad is evil hth 11:41:37 It is supposed to ask, but sometimes (if there's SSH lag or something) it doesn't realize. 11:42:20 Since the protection is based on "N lines in K units of time" kind of rules. 11:42:20 *sigh* 11:42:30 hm i think i planned to increase that timeout once. 11:43:08 [14:43:16] paste_detect_time = 5msecs 11:43:08 freenode probably throttles input. 11:43:12 That's, like, 1499 km in speed-of-light terms. 11:43:54 Ah, good ol' zeroth order models. 11:43:54 it was 10 msecs i now increased it to 100 11:45:04 i doubt i manage to type a normal line in less than 0.1 s 11:46:20 fizzie: i had just copied and pasted that long list into vim to compare clog's view with glogbot's. 11:47:50 Jafet: i'm pretty sure there was an election for karzai's second term? but this may have been the first time they handled it themselves. 11:48:18 Actually, there were two elections, but people didn't seem to like those very much. 11:49:30 ( :t mkShow 11:49:30 BotPrelude.mkShow : (a -> String) -> Show a 11:52:05 (incidentally the only ones not split from clog were Gracenotes Taneb clog douglass_ ejls mroman, and the only ones not split from glogbot were glogbot impomatic scoff trout. 11:52:08 ) 11:55:33 I was asleep, hth. 11:55:59 int-e: you were in both lists. 11:56:23 I believe int-e's alibi. 11:57:49 * impomatic waves to oerjan :-) 11:58:06 hi impomatic 12:00:51 IRC alerted me so I zoomed across here in case everyone's talking about Core War or something :-D 12:01:32 sorry it was just clog war 12:02:30 I'll just mention this before I have lunch :-P http://corewar.co.uk/spring2014.htm 12:03:27 Oh also if you're interested in the history of worms / viruses I've found a description of one which possibly predates Creeper. 12:04:41 @localtime oerjan 12:04:41 Local time for oerjan is Sun Apr 13 14:04:41 2014 12:05:58 05:38:35 --- [Users #esoteric] 12:05:58 05:38:35 --> drlemon_ int-e jconn 12:06:22 that "but the program must still behave essentially the same" sounds rather subjective for a computer tournament... 12:06:25 05:40:24 --- glogbackup has joined #esoteric 12:06:57 and then people started coming back 07:12:11 (all CET). That's my view of the netsplit. 12:07:28 rather fine fragments, i take. 12:09:37 glogbot split a bit earlier and rejoined a little later. tunes still hasn't fixed its broken clock. 12:09:42 boily: btw UPPHETTA means to heat up (something) 12:09:56 olsner: what, with two t's? 12:10:14 what other number of t's could there be? 12:10:28 one two three? 12:10:29 one like in norwegian? (and english for that matter) 12:10:36 well, "other", so one or three ;) 12:10:37 (opphete) 12:11:14 "aufheizen" has no t at all (though you can count the implied one in the 'z') 12:11:34 no:hette means hood. 12:11:45 that'd be sv:hätta 12:12:40 well, literally... hood would probably be sv:huva nowadays 12:13:26 not cap? 12:14:20 that's what hue means in my dialect, although standard norwegian is lue. 12:15:08 actually more like huæ. 12:18:06 fr:chauffer. 12:18:15 "The thin atmosphere prevents Mars from retaining any heat energy, so temperatures near the equator can get up to 70 degrees F during a summer day, and then drop down to minus 100 degrees F at night." 12:18:52 i didn't know summer day temperatures on mars were so reasonable. 12:19:15 "up to" 12:20:13 `frink 70 fahrenheit to celsius 12:20:16 Warning: undefined symbol "fahrenheit". \ Bounds in range expression are of unsupported types: (70 fahrenheit (undefined symbol), celsius (undefined symbol)) \ at frink.expr.bh.byte(frink) \ at frink.expr.bh.evaluate(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseString(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseStrings(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink. 12:20:26 iirc, 70 is about room temperature 12:20:47 `` echo $(((70 - 32) * 5 / 9)) 12:20:48 21 12:21:10 21 is good. I like 21. 12:23:40 the time period when mars may have had water is known as the "Noachian". although the implications are somewhat dampened by it being named after the region of Noachis Terra. 12:24:39 istr `frink has a weird way of converting temperatures, also your syntax is wrong for ordinary units as well, it's not a bloody natural language parser. 12:25:27 `sanetemp 70 12:25:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found 12:25:32 !sanetemp 70 12:25:34 21.1 12:25:46 !insanetemp 21.1 12:25:47 69.9 12:25:49 !show sanetemp 12:25:50 sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" 12:25:59 dampened, hmm. (damp = moist) 12:26:37 not the intended pun. 12:27:14 oerjan: what is istr twh 12:28:53 I seem to recall 12:30:20 oh, twh is another acronym in the hth family. 12:31:49 but does it mean "that will help" or "that won't help"? ;-) 12:31:58 that would help, iirc. 12:32:03 `? twh 12:32:03 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 12:32:09 `run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p"') > bin/sanetemp; chmod +x bin/sanetemp 12:32:11 No output. 12:32:18 `sanetemp 70 12:32:19 21.1 12:32:27 !show insanetemp 12:32:28 sh dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p" 12:32:52 `run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p"') > bin/insanetemp; chmod +x bin/insanetemp 12:32:53 No output. 12:33:03 `insanetemp 21.1 12:33:04 69.9 12:33:33 `` cat <<<$SHELL 12:33:33 ​/bin/sh 12:34:21 /bin/sh on HackEgo does some bad things 12:34:38 `file /bin/sh 12:34:39 ​/bin/sh: symbolic link to `dash' 12:34:42 in particular iirc you don't want to echo user input with it. 12:35:08 `` /bin/sh echo echo 12:35:08 ​/bin/sh: 0: Can't open echo 12:35:12 beuh... 12:35:20 `` /bin/sh -c echo echo 12:35:21 No output. 12:35:21 missing -c 12:35:35 it doesn't break on _all_ input, mind you. 12:35:38 `` /bin/sh -c "echo echo" 12:35:38 echo 12:36:20 i don't quite recall what caused the problem, but i think tabs may have been involved. 12:36:36 oh wait 12:36:59 `` echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho "$@"' >bin/poulet; chmod +x bin/poulet 12:37:00 No output. 12:37:13 it was when your input contained escape sequences like \n. 12:37:14 `cat bin/` 12:37:14 exec bash -c "$1" 12:37:25 so that's why <<< worked :) 12:37:39 It's kind of unclear whether "insanetemp" (resp. "sanetemp") converts from insane to sane, or the other way around. 12:37:41 `poulet test\nho 12:37:41 test \ ho 12:37:54 `poulet somethingsomething 12:37:54 somethingsomething 12:37:56 fizzie: it's to hth 12:38:03 darn. the tab didn't work. 12:38:05 boily: it wasn't tabs, but \n 12:38:11 ^H isn't a tab 12:38:19 `poulet somethingsomething 12:38:19 somethingsomething 12:38:30 int-e: I got slightly confused. 12:38:32 it's hard to get it passed through unchanged. 12:38:40 `poulet somethingsomething 12:38:41 somethingsomething 12:38:47 `poulet something 12:38:47 something 12:38:49 something 12:38:51 * int-e sees nothing bad. 12:39:09 * boily sucks at mental calculation and hexadecimal this morning. I deserve an automapole. 12:39:57 int-e: my test shows it. 12:40:02 http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Ohlo9ru5.png - wysiwyg 12:40:03 `poulet test\nho 12:40:03 test \ ho 12:40:30 boily: you know you could be saved all this work if you paid attention to my self-corrections hth 12:40:59 IEUAAAAAAAAARGH! 12:41:11 (unless it adds color codes, in which case they get filtered on my end) 12:41:19 the problem is that the idiom of using echo "$@" to pass command args unchanged as input to a command breaks with /bin/sh 12:41:59 int-e: that is, it's not _supposed_ to turn that \n into a newline. 12:42:16 `poulet -? 12:42:16 ​-? 12:42:49 oooh. I have a file called -u in my home directory, how did that happen :) 12:43:20 some curl mishap judgring by its content (a 401 error) 12:43:43 hm i remember someone added a command to do this automatically... 12:43:48 `run ls bin/*or* 12:43:49 bin/forget \ bin/fortune \ bin/joustreport \ bin/ord \ bin/ordu \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/rainwords \ bin/word \ bin/words 12:44:01 print_args_or_input, it was 12:44:08 `word 12:44:09 aver 12:44:13 ... 12:44:26 boily: truth in advertising 12:44:46 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 12:45:09 oerjan: sorry. http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/echo.html begs to differ. 12:45:23 "the results are implementation-defined" 12:46:39 int-e: i'm not saying dash breaks the standard, i'm saying the standard is inconvenient. 12:49:07 "New applications are encouraged to use printf instead of echo." 12:49:20 `cat bin/print_args_or_input 12:49:21 if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi 12:49:32 oh they actually did 12:49:44 hm... 12:50:02 oerjan: I guess the proper solution is a here document. foo < (since the ; have to be actual newlines) 12:50:38 `run sed -i 's/echo/print_args_or_input/' bin/*sanetemp 12:50:40 No output. 12:50:43 oh printf 12:50:45 thanks 12:50:47 `cat bin/sanetemp 12:50:47 ​#!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" 12:51:03 `sanetemp 32 12:51:03 0 12:51:18 ??? 12:51:21 `run echo 32 | sanetemp 12:51:22 0 12:51:29 now it can be used both ways 12:51:41 bin/print_args_or_input can't be executed directly 12:51:54 am I missing somehting? 12:52:02 `sanetemp 1 12:52:03 ​-17.2 12:52:32 how does print_args_or_input work without a shebang line? 12:52:37 int-e: it's a convenience command someone made so we can easily write commands that take either stdin or cmdargs 12:53:03 int-e: hm 12:53:16 int-e: i guess it's just run as shell commands, then. 12:53:32 that's it's intended use, anyway. 12:54:09 man bash helps: "If this execution fails because the file is not in executable format, and the file is not a directory, it is assumed to be a shell script." 12:54:15 I didn't know! 12:54:26 `sanetemp -40 12:54:26 dc: stack empty \ 4.4 12:54:36 `sanetemp (-40) 12:54:37 dc: '(' (050) unimplemented \ dc: stack empty \ dc: ')' (051) unimplemented \ 4.4 12:55:04 `sanetemp 40 0- 12:55:05 4.4 12:55:09 `sanetemp 0 40- 12:55:10 ​-40.0 12:55:55 `run sed -i '1i#!/bin/bash' bin/print_args_or_input 12:55:57 No output. 12:56:04 `cat bin/print_args_or_input 12:56:04 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi 12:56:21 `sanetemp 100 12:56:21 37.7 12:57:50 i guess dc isn't quite sane, only the temps. 12:58:08 `run ls/*temp* 12:58:08 bash: ls/*temp*: No such file or directory 12:58:14 `run ls bin/*temp* 12:58:15 bin/insanetemp \ bin/sanetemp 12:58:25 brain service needed 12:58:56 `` echo -10 | sed 's/^/1 /;s/-/2-/' | dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" 12:58:57 ​-12.2 12:59:12 err. 12:59:16 `` echo -10 | sed 's/^/1 /;s/-/2-/' | dc -e "1k?*32-5*9/p" 12:59:16 ​-23.3 12:59:22 `` echo -40 | sed 's/^/1 /;s/-/2-/' | dc -e "1k?*32-5*9/p" 12:59:23 ​-40.0 13:00:09 actually 13:01:01 `` echo -40 | dc -e "1k0 1?*32-5*9/p" 13:01:02 ​-40.0 13:01:44 * oerjan happily lets int-e handle this. 13:03:20 `` sed -i 's/k./k0 1?*/' bin/sanetemp bin/insanetemp 13:03:21 No output. 13:03:56 `sanetemp -17 13:03:57 ​-27.2 13:03:59 `sanetemp -40 13:03:59 ​-40.0 13:04:02 `insanetemp -40 13:04:03 ​-40.0 13:04:11 `sanetemp 32 13:04:12 0 13:04:21 `sanetemp 32.5 13:04:21 ​.2 13:04:26 `sanetemp -32.5 13:04:27 ​-35.8 13:05:35 bin/{in,}sanetemp would have been more clever. 13:12:15 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:15:28 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:57:58 -!- monotone has joined. 14:04:01 -!- password2 has joined. 14:21:07 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:31:29 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 14:37:46 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:55:01 what 14:58:38 so... sane is which one? 14:59:32 `sanetemp 0 14:59:33 ​-17.7 14:59:38 `sanetemp 32 14:59:38 0 14:59:50 F -> C 15:00:26 I presume Celsius is the sane one 15:04:36 indeed 15:05:08 Rankine is the truly insane one 15:06:16 "Kelvin had a great idea there, but clearly we should base the scale on the more familiar Fahrenheit unit instead." 15:06:25 How about the Rømer and Réaumur scales? 15:07:04 There was a giant temperature-o-meter with markings in one of those in a park somewhere in Switzerland or Italy, I took a photo of it. 15:08:25 How about just an exponential scale with k = 1 15:08:27 Réaumur, apparently. 15:08:57 (It's just Celsius except with 80 in place of 100.) 15:09:36 right, Réaumur looks quite sane. Rømer not so much, because it seems to depend on the salt content of brine. 15:10:16 Why can't we just use natural units 15:10:24 Everything in Planck units! 15:10:57 And both are saner than Fahrenheit (coldest temperature ever encountered at home = 0 ... body temperature = 100; everybody gets their own scale that way!) 15:11:32 like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. 15:11:48 man that must have sucked 15:12:02 People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" 15:12:25 That's why they're called rulers, you know 15:12:36 *rimshot* 15:12:45 (it would explain the attraction of the chinese to small feet ;-) ) 15:13:06 Random hardware question: are there any potential issues with USB-connected SATA HD enclosures around the 2 TB barrier? (I had that 1.5 TB drive that broke, and was thinking of sticking a 3 TB drive in to replace it.) 15:13:10 Jafet: ouch. 15:13:44 Jafet : Reminds me of https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es/3/39/Robotnikwood.jpg 15:14:06 (I would have thought we're past that kind of problems already, but in the past there's been some kind of a "barrier" at pretty much every other power of two.) 15:14:11 fizzie: have to use GPT if it's partitioned, I guess? 15:15:42 That's probably true. Though I don't think that should be a problem, as long as there isn't anything about the USB-to-SATA bridge that would have problems. 15:15:50 The 2TiB barrier is not visible to SATA 15:16:07 fizzie: well, I was just thinking of issues with using a drive like that in general. 15:16:27 The only reason people made a big deal out of it was because old BIOSes couldn't deal with 4KiB sectors 15:17:58 I think I had a "must upgrade disk firmware in order for it to be recognizable at all" incompatibility with these current 3TB drives in this desktop. 15:19:38 Oh, no, it was the 1TB Samsung HD105SI instead. And some other computer. 15:20:32 Well, anyway, things never work out right if there's any chance for them to go wrong, has been my general feeling about hard disks. 15:24:33 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:31:02 -!- ^v has joined. 15:39:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:44:28 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:55:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:03:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:03:59 fizzie, you should use a lot of smaller disks in RAID instead then? 16:05:13 I don't have places to put them in. Anyway, maybe it'll work. 16:05:40 By all means it should, anyway. 16:06:13 huh, beautiful timing: Evolution froze up, I typed in a killall command 16:06:13 and just before I ran the command, it crashed 16:06:16 Vorpal: I thought the disks were meant to be inexpensive 16:06:16 rather than, necessarily, small 16:06:29 @messages-loud 16:06:30 oerjan said 4h 49m 34s ago: [...] SAVE, LPTON, LPTOFF, PICTURE <-- you need a HDRON too hth 16:06:33 ais523, you missed the context 16:06:51 oerjan: O, it is a joke... 16:07:03 Actually "LPTON" is short for "line printer on" 16:08:46 ais523, I know it is ironic that I should say that yes 16:09:11 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 16:09:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:09:28 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 16:09:37 ais523, you missed the context ais523, I know it is ironic that I should say that yes 16:09:41 (wrt the disk size) 16:16:12 man, C++ is getting ever better language for obfuscations too 16:16:17 I like this 16:16:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:17:20 yeah, C++ is pretty great for obfuscations 16:17:38 in general, any apparently innocent line of C++ code can do pretty much anything, depending on the context 16:18:28 unless it explicitly names a primitive data type 16:19:08 C is the language with apparently innocent lines. C++ is like a mob boss. 16:19:08 have you noticed how lambda syntax now lets you define new variables (possibly shadowing existing ones) without ever mentioning a type name or "auto"? makes it even more difficult for a human to follow bindings. 16:19:14 #define int Utils 16:20:19 ais523, yes, it is pretty terrible for anything except obfuscation at this point 16:20:34 At least with C++03 it wasn't /that/ bad 16:21:11 int-e: that's the preprocessor, it doesn't count 16:21:12 C++11 was an obvious improvement on C++03. 16:21:38 bjonas: haskell lambdas dont even make you type a type name.. how evil 16:21:46 C++11 is better at being C++ than previous versions were 16:22:18 > C++11 16:22:19 (input):1:1:When elaborating an application of function Prelude.Vect.++: 16:22:19 No such variable C 16:22:20 Not in scope: data constructor ‘C’ 16:22:20 newsham: yeah, but in haskell you don't have assignments to previously declared variables either 16:22:36 Were user-defined literals part of C++11? 16:22:45 newsham: so, like, in haskell, x = 3 always introduces a new variable x 16:22:52 C++11 was an obvious improvement on C++03. <-- in some respects, yes 16:22:57 in C++ it's probably just an assignment to an existing x 16:23:23 fizzie, yes 16:23:36 If you mean suffixes to numbers at least 16:23:46 That I think is terrible, makes it much harder to follow 16:24:29 Nearly all C++03 code is valid C++11, and C++11 can do many other things. So the committee considers it an improvement. 16:24:48 I consider it an improvement too 16:24:55 especially because of move-return 16:24:58 finally, threads. 16:24:58 So... I was reading some C++ (03) code making heavy use of boost MPL the other day. Scary 16:25:03 superset is an awesome langauge design technique! 16:25:13 Oh, you say you wanted a language that takes less than five years to learn properly and less than one coffee break to compile? Too bad. 16:25:25 this tomato is really cool, now it just needs wheels! 16:26:28 Jafet, the code base at work takes about an hour to completely build, using MSVC 2005. Building for both windows and the embedded real time OS. Oh and that is using a distcc-like thing for windows called IncrediBuild. I have no idea how long it would take with a single computer 16:26:37 newsham: it's amazing how many gaps in the syntax tree you can fill that way. 16:26:41 That is C++ for you 16:26:53 I remember building gcc from svn, soon after they switched to C++ 16:27:03 took ages I bet? 16:27:04 Vorpal: try disabling link-time optimization. that sometimes helps a lot with MSVC. 16:27:09 -!- stuntaneous has joined. 16:27:13 (The svn repo is about 1GB now.) 16:27:27 b_jonas, the real killer is generating the pdb files for debug build really... 16:27:39 Jafet: yeah, gcc is building slow again 16:27:45 there was a time when it built quickly 16:27:47 strange 16:28:00 I quite like C++ 16:28:05 Back in my dayyyys 16:28:11 b_jonas, I have seen 700+ MB pdb files for the final applications. We link everything statically (since anything else is a MASSIVE pain on the RTOS target), so that doesn't help. 16:28:26 (Also, the commands I used to build gcc were "./configure && make; make; make; make; make install".) 16:28:28 Slereah_: no no, back in my days gcc built slow, because computers were too slow 16:28:37 b_jonas, the linker takes a LONG time for that 16:28:46 b_jonas, it is not so bad in release builds though 16:28:52 Back in someone's dayyyys 16:28:54 Vorpal: generating pdb files you say? hmm 16:29:01 It's daily C syntax corner case time! http://sprunge.us/ccKL 16:29:04 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:29:27 fizzie: hehehe 16:29:38 back in those days e-mailing somebody the X11R5 sources was considered a DoS attack. 16:29:38 b_jonas, can take up to 5 minutes to link debug builds sometimes, and some investigation showed most of that was spent writing the 700+ MB pdb file 16:30:01 b_jonas, the application is more like 30 MB in debug (and iirc like 12 or so in release) 16:30:02 [wiki] [[Talk:Smartboxes]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39307&oldid=39306 * Zerk * (+476) /* Implicit evaluation */ 16:30:10 there's a funny C++ code that used to build in old gccs then not build in later ones, and I actually understood why it is invalid code according to C++, but then some later gcc decided to accept it again 16:30:43 It's daily C syntax corner case time! http://sprunge.us/ccKL <-- what is ptype? 16:30:44 c++ still hasnt incorporated awk or sed or sh 16:30:50 there is still room for improvement 16:30:56 newsham: no, but they're getting close to that 16:31:26 fizzie, also why does it do what it did there? 16:31:40 Vorpal: The "-" sign is the unary - operator, not part of the integer literal. 16:32:01 (And 2147483648 is larger than INT_MAX, so is of type long.) 16:32:02 b_jonas, also that is not due to the disk btw, we all use high end intel SSDs in our computers 16:32:25 fizzie, ahhh 16:32:28 Vorpal: are you also using enough RAM? 16:32:45 b_jonas, 12 GB in some machines, 16 in others. 64-bit windows 7 16:32:50 (The "-" sign in floating point literals is part of the literal syntax, but it probably doesn't matter there.) 16:32:55 700 MB of RAM 16:32:58 for() { next unless(m/stuff/; ... } 16:33:03 Vorpal: I see 16:33:25 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 16:33:30 b_jonas, we are going to switch to linux in the future though for the next version of the embedded platform, porting is currently in the works. I guess we will have to support the old one for quite some time to come though 16:33:33 Ironically, float range is sign-symmetric but int range is not 16:33:34 here's that C++ thingy that I think shouldn't compile, but gcc now accepts it again: http://dpaste.com/1778559/ 16:33:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:33:38 so eh I don't bother too much 16:33:41 this channel might apprecate it 16:34:08 Jafet: it does matter a bit for floats too, because of preprocessor shenenigans with ## stuff 16:34:17 not much though 16:34:21 b_jonas, what is wrong with that? 16:34:35 Vorpal: oh wait, that's the version that should compile 16:34:48 Vorpal: change the ::d to d to have the version that is questionable 16:34:49 b_jonas, I probably couldn't tell them apart 16:35:10 Jafet: also probably for user-defined literals 16:35:21 b_jonas, okay, why is that questionable, I don't see multiple d symbols in there 16:35:29 here's the questionable version: http://dpaste.com/1778560/ 16:36:06 b_jonas, as far as I can see, there is only one class d in there? 16:36:10 Vorpal: the trick is that in that context d can refer to the concrete type d, or the type template d 16:36:18 Ah 16:36:22 Vorpal: ::d unambiguously refers to the template 16:36:42 fuck template-template arguments :P 16:36:51 the language usually disambiguates between the two because if you use the template a less than sign follows 16:36:56 -!- nucular has joined. 16:36:56 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 16:36:56 -!- nucular has joined. 16:37:00 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:37:03 which is why you need this crazy code to confuse the grammar 16:37:05 b_jonas, yes and template-template breaks that 16:37:24 C++ grammar is terrible 16:38:06 That is one thing I like about python. A mostly sensibly grammar that is sensibly parseable 16:38:14 Btw, is it "parseable" or "parsable"? 16:38:40 s/sensibly/sensible/ 16:39:30 Vorpal: is it now? do you know the scoping rules for python, like what creates a new variable in a scope as opposed to referring to an existing one? 16:39:42 Vorpal: yes, according to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parsable 16:40:09 b_jonas, okay that bit is a meh, but at least there is no ambiguity at the actual parsing stage. Afaik the grammar is LL(1) 16:40:32 int-e, oh nice, I can mix and match after my mood ;) 16:41:40 I have another crazy example about gcc, but that's more dependent on which generation of the C++ standard you look at 16:41:45 let me find it 16:42:58 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59704 16:43:00 Completely unrelated, I just looked at my car expenses spreadsheet, specifically the fuel page. Man, it is expensive having a car. At least if you live in Europe. 16:43:30 Vorpal: it sure is 16:43:35 Spent around 1225 USD on fuel alone since buying the car last summer. 16:43:44 (~8000 SEK) 16:44:50 This is a new chromium bug I think... Sometimes when I scroll the page goes blank. If I scroll a bit further it goes back to working again 16:45:01 First showed up a couple of days ago... 16:45:59 b_jonas, ouch 16:46:04 b_jonas: evil gcc. 16:46:16 int-e, also evil language and evil code 16:46:30 Vorpal: yes, all of those 16:46:31 b_jonas, what does = delete mean? I haven't used C++11 16:46:35 not much at least 16:47:13 I want to tell 2008 Vorpal about 2014 Vorpal having a car. 16:47:35 Guest46968, why is that? Did I say something about cars back then? 16:47:45 Vorpal: that means the function doesn't exist and will never be defined. it's most often used for copy constructors of non-copiable classes. 16:47:47 um. I think you hated them but maybe I'm mixing you up. 16:47:52 here it comes useful to produce a clear example 16:48:10 it's not necessary for exhibiting this bug, just makes it simpler to show 16:48:23 Guest46968, err think you are mixing me up. They are terrible for the environment, and I avoid driving when I don't have to. But I probably didn't go further than that 16:49:16 b_jonas, ah yes, the old C++03 way of declaring but not defining such a function would produce a linker error instead 16:49:30 or making it private (if in a class, unlike here) 16:49:51 Vorpal: you can demonstrate this bug without delete, but then you'd have to check what function gcc actually chooses to call, instead of getting a straight error message 16:50:31 b_jonas, or just define one of them and try to link it, resulting in a linker error as I said 16:51:10 I didn't know you could mix varargs with overloading btw 16:51:18 It seems like it could be terribly confusing 16:52:40 fizzie, recommendation(s) for domain name reseller? 16:52:43 Vorpal: the context is this. gcc has a language extension called __builtin_constant_p to determine whether an expression is compile-time constant. this is useful in macros that try to do magical optimized stuff. 16:52:55 b_jonas, ah 16:53:08 Vorpal: now Jens Gustedt noticed that this is possible to write in standtard C11, without an extesions, 16:53:12 see https://gustedt.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/testing-compile-time-constness-and-null-pointers-with-c11s-_generic/ 16:53:29 but he wrote "I am not aware of a C++ feature that provides the same possibilities" 16:53:46 so I wanted to implement the same thing in C++, and I do have a solution which seems to work, 16:54:04 but the problem is, it's completely fragile and seems to depend on what gcc can optmize to a constant, 16:54:17 instead of just what the language specs considers compile-time constant, 16:54:22 Ah 16:54:23 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:54:25 Why do bullshitters always put their bs "information" in a video instead of something nice and readable? 16:54:26 so it could easily break in a future gcc. 16:54:30 this bug is about that. 16:54:33 but in the meanwhile, 16:54:40 The bill this person is talking about was in 2010 and doesn't even mention 2014 16:54:41 b_jonas, so what does _Generic do? 16:54:50 So I cant just google 16:55:09 c++1y wants to change the rule about what can be casts to a null pointer, so it would break my solution completely. 16:55:23 hm 16:55:46 Vorpal: it's a C11 thingy for choosing different expressions depending on the type of an expression. 16:55:48 I need to look into what C11 brought to the table at some point btw 16:55:49 Sgeo: charisma? hard to express that in text (unless you use comic sans ;-) ) 16:55:59 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:56:08 C++ doesn't have it, because it has function overloading instead. 16:56:11 int-e, doesn't comic sans express the lack thereof 16:56:27 Vorpal: the most useful thing it's brought is well-defined semantics for multithread stuff, 16:56:27 Vorpal: yes. but so could a video. 16:56:32 "Write Down This Date: 16:56:32 July 1st, 2014" 16:56:42 Can we write it down so we can give people like this the middle finger? 16:56:42 Vorpal: with basically the same model as C++11, 16:56:44 b_jonas, so a C header using it couldn't be included in a C++ program? Okay 16:57:15 July 1st 2014. A perfectly ordinary day somewhat past the middle of 2014. 16:57:16 Or maybe this person is schizophrenic, rather than a scammer? 16:57:21 Vorpal: not normally, but such a C header could do an #ifdef to work in both cases, and some headers in gcc or libc will do that 16:57:29 int-e: supposedly the US is going to collapse due to some law 16:57:35 again. 16:58:08 b_jonas, hm 16:58:17 But there's a template here, I feel. Of using a video. They don't sound like a crazy. My vote is scammer. 16:58:44 http://www.endofamerica.com/ 16:58:54 The video is so lengthy, still hasn't gotten to the point yet 17:01:18 Why doesn't this person just GET TO THE POINT already 17:01:26 Does doing this increase fear or something? 17:01:31 Sgeo, why are you watching it then? 17:01:55 I want to see what this scam is about 17:03:27 Apparently it's fear-mongering about debt spending? WIth no relation to "On this date, U.S. House of Representatives Bill "H.R. 2847" goes into effect. It will usher in the true collapse of the U.S. dollar, and will make millions of Americans poorer, overnight. You now have just several months to prepare..." on the website 17:07:13 http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/h/HR-2847-Dollar-Collapse.htm 17:07:40 I tried reading the bill itself but I have no idea what it says. 17:08:24 It doesn't say 2014, but maybe I missed something that's equivalent 17:09:14 Sgeo: there are relative effective dates in there, e.g. "The amendments made by this section shall apply to obligations issued after the date which is 2 years after the date of the enactment of this Act." 17:09:24 Vorpal: I have my only .org from register4less, but they're not cheap; I've just been staying there because of inertia. 17:10:02 Vorpal: (For .fi domains, I recommend the Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority.) 17:10:38 fizzie: misleading name? 17:10:59 ais523: It's possible they were relatively cheap at that time. 17:11:17 "Our countries's unique ability to print more money" 17:11:33 Oh, it's saying that we're the only one able to print US money, which is popular 17:12:37 "10MB of web space. A part of the R4L difference that we have offered our clients from the first day is free web space with your domain. With every R4L registration, you can host a web site up to 10MB in size, banner-free!" 17:12:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 17:12:55 I have a feeling 10 megabytes might not be anything to write home about, these days. 17:13:30 might not even be enough space to fit t he ltter home, in fact 17:14:17 ltter 17:17:54 fizzie: it's still quite a lot of space if you're just storing text, though 17:18:31 ais523: It is, yes, but it does sound sort of "outdated". 17:24:31 sfeer theory shows the connection between comonads and natural deduction http://sfeertheory.littlefoolery.com/index.html 17:25:55 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:26:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:27:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:27:54 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:30:20 fizzie, hm 17:30:56 * pikhq submits a CFJ: can "ais523" and "callforjudgement" refer to the same entities? 17:31:18 fizzie, with tilaa how many IPv4 do you get? 17:31:51 fizzie, I can't find that on their site 17:32:18 Vorpal: One. 17:32:29 -!- scarf has joined. 17:32:37 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:32:50 Vorpal: It's (sort of) there in the knowledge base, just not very prominently: https://support.tilaa.com/entries/20917782-Can-I-get-additional-IPv4-addresses- 17:33:21 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:33:57 -!- tromp has joined. 17:34:01 fizzie, ah 17:34:28 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39308&oldid=39305 * Zerk * (+281) Reverted to using _var assignments, moved $ to #sugar where it belongs. 17:34:31 Vorpal: (They also assign only a single IPv6 address, not a /64 block or something, and you need to request more via their dashboard thing. But I think those are free.) 17:34:46 fizzie, how is support btw? 17:34:57 And do they have an IRC channel? 17:35:46 -!- scarf has quit (Client Quit). 17:36:13 -!- scarf has joined. 17:38:39 Vorpal: I don't think I've had any reason to contact them. I tried to check my email archive, but "tilaa" is the Finnish word both for "space" (as in, "the space between the walls", not stars-and-galaxies space) and "order" (as in, "order now while supplies last"), so I get a whole lot of emails in Finnish. 17:38:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:39:48 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:39:49 "tilaa.com" seems to have been a better search term, but there's just email notices of downtime or planned maintenance; I've never had an occasion to contact their support. 17:40:03 I don't think they have an IRC channel, though I could be wrong about that. 17:40:39 They have a Twitter account. :p 17:41:17 -!- scarf has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:43:50 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 17:45:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:46:31 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:46:34 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:50:27 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 17:50:34 -!- scarf has joined. 17:55:52 -!- scarf has quit. 17:56:01 -!- scarf has joined. 18:00:01 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/767 lol 18:00:12 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:00:54 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:01:55 -!- heroux has joined. 18:05:46 fizzie, hm 18:09:23 Bike: I like that winner #2 end result very much. 18:10:03 yeah it's pretty @_@ 18:12:25 Though I was under the impression that the fact realloc can return some completely different pointer and invalidate the old one was pretty common knowledge. 18:12:51 A C compiler should not assume these things left and right, though. 18:13:23 Unfortunately for you, a C compiler is permitted to assume UB never happens. 18:13:28 For example, what happens when you use -nostdlib. (Sometimes, the compiler blindly continues using its assumptions) 18:13:28 fizzie: I also, thought so 18:14:02 -ffreestanding is the one to make it do a freestanding C implementation. 18:14:05 There was a bug in gcc 4.8 where gcc would compile an implementation of memset into a call to memset 18:14:07 fizzie: well, i didn't know, not that i'm a C programmer, and i don't see it in man 18:14:25 I don't really like that, standard library assumptions, so, I defined that Black-C has a different way to specify standard library assumptions. 18:14:31 -nostdlib says "don't implicitly add -lc to the link line" and that's all. 18:14:52 it's not what i'd infer from "changes the size of the memory block pointed to by ptr", certainly 18:14:54 Yes, I meant -ffreestanding might not turn off those assumptions. 18:14:56 Bike: It is only implied very vaguely in my realloc man page. "If the area pointed to was moved, a free(ptr) is done." 18:15:11 And *that* is a compiler bug. :) 18:15:20 fizzie: The man page isn't normative though. 18:15:33 not normative, but more people are going to read it than ANSI! 18:16:01 " The realloc function deallocates the old object pointed to by ptr and returns a pointer to a new object that has the size specified by size. The contents of the new object shall be the same as that of the old object prior to deallocation, up to the lesser of the new and old sizes." 18:16:05 btw is there some way to see what version of a given man page i have 18:16:30 pikhq: is that the standard? 18:16:36 That is the standard, yes. 18:16:55 that sounds like a totally different function from the one in my manual 18:16:55 It also mentions, in the return value section, that it "returns a pointer to the new object (which may have the same value as a pointer to the old object)". 18:17:09 Yes, that is 7.20.3.4 from the WG14/N1256 draft. 18:17:19 (closest I, a cheapskate, have to the actual spec) 18:17:36 The C89 wording is essentially very close to Bike's (and mine) man pages. 18:17:38 i mean obviously it makes sense that it's going to have to get a new block sometimes, but i didn't know that from the manual, is all 18:17:49 "The realloc function changes the size of the object pointed to by ptr to the size specified by size . The contents of the object shall be unchanged up to the lesser of the new and old sizes." 18:18:13 So I would have it, the realloc function can be declared with ["implements"("realloc",ptr,len)] ["invalidate"(ptr)] before the function header, to indicate to the optimizer, such features. (Actually the first implies the second, but this is in case the compiler doesn't implement "implements".) 18:18:34 And the only bit that hints at the possibility of a move is the "returns" section: "The realloc function returns either a null pointer or a pointer to the possibly moved allocated space." 18:18:41 ooh, are we taking about realloc? 18:18:47 fizzie: that's actually the same as my man page, except it uses "will" instead of "shall" 18:18:55 scarf: yes, see my link above, there's an amusing UB 18:18:59 amusing result of UB, rather 18:19:06 I was reading C11's definition of realloc, and AFAICT, if you give it a zero size and an existing pointer 18:19:21 it's allowed to return a non-NULL pointer that you aren't allowed to dereference 18:19:29 zzo38: does "implements" tell the compiler to use optimizations hardcoded for "realloc"? 18:19:30 and that can be deallocated 18:19:34 Yes, that matches malloc's behavior. 18:19:39 Bike: Yes. 18:19:50 boring. i like "invalidate" though. 18:19:51 malloc(0) can return NULL or a unique pointer that it is UB to dereference. 18:20:01 sounds like the sort of thing rust probably has 18:20:25 This is the same in C99 and C90. 18:20:26 pikhq: It can be safely passed to free, however. 18:20:37 Yes, but the same is true of NULL. 18:20:46 pikhq: Yes, what make sense to me is that realloc with an existing pointer and zero size, ought to free the pointer and then return whatever malloc(0) is, which can be safely freed whether or not the result is null. 18:20:46 pikhq: yeah, but realloc-as-0 is documented to be the same as free in the man pages 18:20:52 and it's quite useful for it to behave like that 18:21:04 scarf: Yes, it is quite useful. 18:21:09 as such, I've been making realloc wrappers I write do a free instead if given zero size 18:21:42 zzo38: Conceptually that's what it *does*. 18:22:13 Except a hypothetical evil implementation could have realloc make the opposite choice from malloc. :( 18:22:45 it's amusing that if (!(p = malloc(sz))) die(); is incorrect 18:22:46 pikhq: I don't care as long as whatever it returns can be safely freed once, and that whatever it returns can also be passed to realloc. 18:23:09 Guest46968: for sz = 0 you mean? 18:23:12 yeah 18:23:16 zzo38: Well, the C standard does require that to work no matter which implementation choice is made. 18:23:20 pikhq: it's unspecified, isn't it, not impl-defined? 18:23:24 so it could change randomly during a program 18:23:38 pikhq: Yes, which is how it should be, so it is OK. 18:24:03 What happened to the evil libc project, anyway 18:24:16 scarf: " If the size of the space requested is zero, the behavior is implementation- defined: either a null pointer is returned, or the behavior is as if the size were some nonzero value, except that the returned pointer shall not be used to access an object." 18:24:36 oh good, it is impl-defined 18:24:56 You could argue that realloc is not allowed to return NULL, since it must "return a pointer to a new object that has the size specified by /size/" and can return NULL only if "the new object could not be allocated". And you can't say that it can return NULL under the "could not be allocated" rule, because "if memory for the new object cannot be allocated, the old object is not deallocated and ... 18:25:01 hey, is it legal to pass a negative size to malloc? 18:25:02 ... its value is unchanged". 18:25:12 scarf: It's a size_t, it has no negative values. 18:25:15 oh right, yeah 18:25:22 I'd just notice that, but you got there first 18:25:34 I was confused by valgrind telling me that I'd passed -8 to malloc recently 18:25:45 (it was very helpful that it did that, that bug would have taken longer to find otherwise) 18:25:56 presumably it assumes very large size_ts are actually negative 18:26:26 What if it told you that you'd passed 0xfffffffffffffff8 18:26:34 yeah, that'd be useful too 18:26:50 Yes. It's essentially impossible to meet some of C's requirements while allowing objects with a size that don't fit in ssize_t. 18:26:56 but the Valgrind docs imply to me that they care a lot about making the output understandable to end users, which implies to me that many end users tend to be confused by it 18:27:09 If you are passing a size with the high bit set then probably it is wrong anyways since it likely take up too much of the program's RAM. 18:27:22 Which means that sufficiently large objects (larger than SSIZE_T_MAX) are utterly illegal in practice. :) 18:27:29 pikhq: you're reminding me of a thread on comp.lang.c about whether you could have a conforming implementation that could allocate objects larger than SIZE_MAX bytes using calloc 18:27:45 There was someone on another channel doing fd = open(...); if (fd < 0) die_noisily(); printf("fd = %d", fd); with an accidentally unsigned fd, and was very confused by "it prints fd = -1 but it doesn't die_noisily whaaat". (A case of not enough compiler warning flags, of course.) 18:28:00 That is metaphysics. 18:28:04 I know that one outcome on the thread is that a lot of libc devs realised that their libcs were buggy when given such arguments, at least 18:28:05 scarf: I suppose that might be possible. 18:28:16 scarf: "Essentially" for the sake of skipping out on such a debate. :) 18:28:54 fizzie: this reminds me, I've been planning to change all the integers in NetHack, apart from bitfields, to signed (making them wider if necessary) 18:29:01 can you think of anything that might end up breaking as a result? 18:29:16 Prot ring hacks 18:29:40 I suppose you mean things that aren't exploits 18:29:43 scarf: Hah, realloc of size 0 is the very first defect report of C11: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_400.htm 18:29:49 scarf: weird decision 18:29:58 note that it's OK if code could theoretically break from the change, so long as it's not used in NetHack 18:30:22 Guest46968: I want to autogenerate structure descriptions, rather than relying on a bunch of code implemented by hand that has to be manually synchronized across up to six different files 18:30:28 automatically generating unsigned ints is just asking for pain 18:30:35 thus making them all signed is a saner option 18:32:39 What are these structure descriptions? 18:32:42 hmm, so they're officially making size-0 realloc an error 18:32:45 pity :-( 18:33:00 And, sometimes you might want unsigned numbers 18:33:07 zzo38: I only started work on them a couple of days ago, it's not really finished 18:33:15 scarf: I sometimes use malloc(0) and realloc with size zero, too, though. 18:33:18 but you define numerical types by giving a range 18:33:28 e.g. you write [0, 100] and that probably becomes int8_t 18:33:55 [0, 255] would become int16_t unless you explicitly say that unsigned types are allowed, in which case it might become uint8_t or a bitfield unsigned : 8 18:34:00 TeX actually does contain macros which are there in case the compiler won't generate unsigned types. 18:34:31 in general, I assume that you shouldn't be having overflow happen at all 18:34:46 just use a bignum type for everything. 18:35:35 (These macros are in section 112) 18:35:41 scarf: The mixed-sign integer comparison rules (or, rather, the usual arithmetic conversions in that context) are kind of unintuitive occasionally, at least. (Both get integer promotions first; then if the unsigned type has larger rank, the signed is converted to unsigned and unsigned comparison takes place; alternatively if the signed type can represent all values of the unsigned type, the ... 18:35:45 'twould be nice, but that's not easy to retrofit onto a 27-year-old C codebase 18:35:47 ... unsigned operand is converted to signed and the comparison is signed; alternatively both are converted to the unsigned type corresponding to the operand with the signed type.) 18:36:02 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:36:13 scarf: easier if you use C++ to define the bignum type 18:36:16 fizzie: I don't remember that rule 100%, but do know how it works approximately 18:36:16 then you get operator overloading 18:36:24 scarf: NetHack doesn't compile as C++ 18:36:42 that's an easier problem to solve than replacing all arithmetic operators 18:36:44 err, Guest46968: 18:36:58 and really, neither problem is particularly easy to solve 18:37:03 So (-1L < 1ULL) for example is false, which you maybe might not expect. 18:37:04 Section 110 contains the description of this feature; "Some Pascal compilers ... insist on allocating space for an additional sign bit; on such systems you can get 256 values into a quarterword only if the subrange is `-128 .. 127'." 18:37:32 fizzie: I expected that, fwiw 18:37:38 While (1-LL < 1U) is true. 18:37:46 Er, -1LL, not 1-LL. 18:37:55 zzo38: what about 16-bit systems? wouldn't a quarterword be 4 bits? 18:38:08 also, TeX is written in Pascal? 18:38:22 yes 18:38:33 it's written in pascal but translated to C with a program solely designed to translate TeX to C to compile it 18:38:39 TeX is written in WEB, which is a preprocessor for Pascal. 18:38:56 The "word" in TeX has to be 32-bits even in 16-bit systems though. 18:39:33 wait, tex is written in a preprocessor for pascal which is translated into c to be compiled? 18:39:47 yes 18:40:03 It could be compiled using some Pascal compilers too, though. 18:40:04 like, seriously? 18:40:07 yes 18:40:18 but... why? 18:40:38 yes 18:40:42 Like thousands of other programs of the 70s, TeX was written in pascal. 18:41:02 also, blog.regehr.org talks about UB quite a bit, and is frequently a good read 18:41:12 it has an example where it doesn't check the return value of printf 18:41:20 and then actually talks about the possible behaviour of the program 18:41:28 (this is, btw, the #1 most common bug in hello world programs) 18:41:47 `run /bin/true --help > /dev/full 18:41:48 ​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device 18:41:55 `run /bin/true --help > /dev/full; echo $? 18:41:56 ​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device \ 1 18:42:18 admittedly, /checking/ the return value can also lead to absurdities 18:42:18 And -1L < 1U is false on systems where long is the same size as int, but true on systems where long is longer. 18:42:42 The preprocessor does various things, such as convert hex and octal numbers into decimal, implement macros, convert all names into uppercase and remove all underscores, as well as rearrange and transclude "chunks", generate a string pool, and generate an index and various cross-references, pretty-print the code, etc. 18:42:43 now I wonder if any program uses that to compare the size of int to the size of long 18:42:44 i have a long long in my pants! 18:42:46 sorry 18:43:12 zzo38: now I wonder if Knuth uses a preprocessor to write INTERCAL 18:43:16 (On the first kind of systems, long can represent all values of unsigned int so 1U is converted to long; on the second it can't, so both are converted to unsigned long.) 18:43:18 that converts variable names to numbers, for instance 18:43:29 `run echo 'long long long n;' > /tmp/a.c && gcc /tmp/a.c 18:43:29 ​/tmp/a.c:1:11: error: ‘long long long’ is too long for GCC 18:43:47 hehe 18:43:55 he uses three-letter variable names that are converted into variable numbers using the five-bit Baudot encoding 18:44:19 I'm upset that gcc doesn't still have a pragma to run NetHack 18:44:22 (it was documented, thus legal) 18:44:39 actually it used to interpret all pragmas like that, as a protest against bugs in the definition of #pragma 18:44:41 what 18:44:42 I thought it did, at one point 18:45:02 but the bugs were fixed, and it now implements a few pragmas of itso wn 18:45:02 Oh 18:45:03 *own 18:45:09 so it can't implement /all/ of them like that 18:45:15 and thus it doesn't implement any like that 18:45:36 http://blog.regehr.org/archives/140 haha, beaut 18:46:11 Another thing WEB does is read a "change file" which makes changes to the program before it is compiled. This is implemented so that you can make the changes needed for whatever system you are compiling on. 18:46:57 like... patches? 18:47:16 Yes 18:47:43 i don't think i understand how this termination analysis works... 18:47:45 Bike: incidentally, gcc now has an option that, among other things, tells you about functions it wanted to perform optimizations on (normally moving calls to them elsewhere), but couldn't because it isn't sure that they terminate 18:47:46 I like "change file" 18:48:04 (although it suspects that they probably do) 18:49:18 is there an annotation or something to say that they terminate? 18:49:22 incidentally, CLC-INTERCAL actually optimizes detected infinite loops into infinite sleeps 18:49:37 Bike: there's __attribute__((pure)), which implies termination among other things 18:49:57 if the function is total but impure, then gcc couldn't do the optimizations in question anyway, so there's no real gain 18:49:57 surely always terminating mutagenic functions aren't uncommon 18:50:02 oh. 18:51:22 Bike: I remember having run into something like this. I wanted to produce a stack overflow, void f() { f(); } ... and the call got optimized away by icc. 18:51:31 hm, does the analysis work by figuring that once it's run through all 1000³ tuples it can stop 18:51:36 wow, according to http://blog.regehr.org/archives/161, in C++0x, infinite lops are UB 18:52:07 guess i should just try it 18:52:18 unless they access library functions that do I/O, do synchronization with other threads, or change volatile variables 18:52:33 ok, yeah, there's a delay. 18:52:52 a delay that is appreciably burning my CPU, even 18:53:21 i suppose it doesn't say what gcc does, though. 18:53:29 Bike: I think it works correctly in gcc 18:53:47 given that a) it doesn't mention gcc, and b) gcc explicitly checks for termination when optimizing out code 18:53:50 i don't think i'm willing to install icc for this 18:54:34 scarf: Anyhow, if you're dealing mostly with narrower-than-int unsigned types (like I'd assume, given NetHack), those probably have been converted to int by integer promotions in most of their uses in arithmetics/comparisons before now, already. 18:55:00 fizzie: NetHack uses types more or less at random, AFAICT 18:55:09 I guess there have been guiding principles in the past, but they've changed over time 18:55:19 plain unsigned is entirely visible on occasion 18:55:34 actually, the main problem is when they've tried to do overflow checks, and those checks don't work 18:55:43 "nethack" and "random" in the same sentence brings odd memories to mind 18:55:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:56:04 Bike: well NetHack is a very random gmae 18:56:06 *game 18:56:10 its implementation's also pretty random 18:56:13 nethack <3 18:57:14 scarf: was thinking of rnz 18:57:35 Bike: "These C compilers known to not preserve termination properties of code: Sun CC 5.10, Intel CC 11.1, LLVM 2.7, Open64 4.2.3, and Microsoft Visual C 2008 and 2010. The LLVM developers consider this behavior a bug and have since fixed it. As far as I know, the other compiler vendors have no plans to change the behavior. 18:57:36 These C compilers, as far as I know, do not change the termination behavior of their inputs: GCC 3.x, GCC 4.x, and the WindRiver Diab compiler." 18:58:00 that seems like a pretty strong claim, i wonder how you'd prove it 18:58:06 myname: in case you didn't know, I'm the lead maintainer of the fan project to restart NetHack development 18:58:16 scarf: :O 18:58:17 and the main aim of 4.3 is cleaning up the code 18:58:21 "This observation is not untrue, but it’s a little like explaining that World War II happened because people couldn’t all just get along." not bad 18:58:28 scarf: oh, you're ais, aren't you 18:58:34 i used to play nethack with like 2 dozens of patches applied 18:58:39 names are hard 18:58:45 and a bit UI modifying by myself 18:58:46 "Fan project" 18:58:47 Bike: yes 18:58:49 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 18:59:28 rnz is so amusing, it seems like a in-the-wild semiexample of the kind of prng knuth talks about 18:59:36 sorry, I set my client to cycle nicks on connection failure, because I use unreliable connections often enough that it helps keep them refreshed 18:59:57 Bike: well it doesn't suffer from patterns in the output, just from an utterly nonsensical distribution 19:00:05 that's why it's semi-, yeah 19:00:44 if i was running a stats class i'd compare rnz to cauchy to explain different kinds of "nonsensical" 19:01:04 ais523: i assume that this will take years 19:01:08 (rnz, if i'm not mistaken, has defined moments) 19:01:44 myname: yeah, but we've been working on it for years 19:01:57 ais523: well, you just proved me right 19:02:13 fewer than 50% of the lines in NetHack 4 come from NetHack 3.4.3 or earlier, even when you ignore whitespace changes 19:02:29 (if you don't ignore whitespace changes, it's close to 0% because we reindented the entire source tree) 19:02:34 now i wish i was good enough with cass to give symbolic definitions of all of rnz's moments. 19:02:46 Has anyone actually calculated the higher moments of rnz 19:03:04 ais523: what is the reason behind that? 19:03:28 myname: for reindenting it? because it was entirely inconsistent before 19:03:41 ais523: for the project itself 19:03:44 I standardised it on what seemed to be the most common indentation scheme within the existing code 19:03:46 Jafet: seems unlikely, given that the wikis mostly analyze a continuous distribution slightly different from rnz 19:03:54 oh, for the project, it's because there have been no public updates in over 10 years 19:04:07 which is far too long to leave NetHack stagnant 19:04:13 so if the devteam won't update it, we will 19:04:47 i actually don't recall how to do moments of a discrete distribution, hopefully you just replace the integral with a sum 19:05:00 Sometime in the past 10 years, crawl happened to nethack 19:05:37 I want to write roguelike game using SQL. 19:05:47 wow wikipedia's article on moments is not very formal 19:05:56 zzo38: go for it 19:06:02 i want to write a roguelike in rust 19:06:20 maybe i should see if i know enough real analysis to figure this out, after i do my nine hours of homework 19:06:21 myname: OK do you know how to do? 19:06:35 Jafet: well, there are enough people who think that NetHack is better (including me) that there's still a healthy NetHack community 19:06:44 zzo38: you are there for that creative stuff 19:07:41 so it's not really fatal at all; competition can be helpful 19:07:44 myname: fwiw, structdesc has three types of borrowed pointers, two types of owned pointers, and two which can be owned /or/ borrowed depending on context; I'm considering adding reference counting too 19:07:58 this is because it's meant to describe the behaviour of existing C programs 19:08:06 (Not entirely written in SQL; part of it written in C, such as the display and input manager, and some of the functions and virtual table modules, and some other performance related things, and a few other things) 19:08:12 I prefer crawl, though that may be due to the fact that I have not finished it yet. 19:08:12 and only disallow the behaviour if it's completely nonsensical 19:09:01 I wonder how much money I'm spending on ignoring things like sales and atm fees and coupons on receipts 19:09:03 "The 1st through 3rd elements indicate cases where the I/O subsystem truncated the string. " shit, printf can do this? 19:09:40 Bike: I would think there are cases where no other way is possible, but to truncate the string. 19:10:01 ais523: i would prefer a sane port of nethack for android 19:10:01 could you have a libc where printf never prints anything and always returns zero if there's no error 19:10:14 myname: I've had thoughts along those lines too 19:10:22 not owning a tablet myself, it'd be hard to get the ergonomics right 19:10:29 And then, you can add more items and stuff into the game, by adding more records into the table and adding triggers, and possibly more tables if needed; even such things can be changed during the game if these tables are copied into the save file!! 19:10:37 the main difficulty is a control scheme 19:10:53 I've been wondering about what a mouse-based scheme would look like, that'd be closer to tablet controls than keyboard 19:10:55 but still not idential 19:10:55 hopefully term on android works better than snes on android 19:10:56 ais523: well, there are (fairly limited) RL which work pretty well 19:11:09 ais523: You can still implement keyboard scheme; however, then you need also a scheme that work if you have a non-keyboard device. 19:11:28 but stuff like clicking on a location and a menu would be a big improvement 19:11:46 I think touch screen interfaces are just terrible in general, though. 19:11:46 I'm assuming that most smartphones and tablets on which people want to play NetHack don't have physical keyboards, and that I could use a soft keyboard if I wanted to but that it would take up a large amount of screen space 19:12:01 and thus other alternativels are likely to be better 19:12:17 screen space is not THAT big of a problem 19:12:35 it's more that keys are pretty small and you could move a lot out of that 19:12:48 like moving, picking up, opening/kicking doors, ... 19:12:51 To do it well, you may need to change some parts of the game to be more like powder. 19:13:04 what's powder? 19:13:08 wowwwww that C++ behavior 19:13:22 Powder is a dungeon crawler written for consoles. 19:13:45 I really believe keyboard interface are much better than touchscreens and so on. 19:14:00 i may have seen it on nds 19:14:00 "Haskell fails to distinguish between the error and non-terminating cases: this can be seen as trading diagnostic power for speed" :') 19:14:01 myname: POWDER started out as a project by Jeff Lait (famous both for POWDER and for many 7DRLs) to port NetHack to the DS by rewriting it from scratch, but after starting he decided to make a different game instead that was merely similar to NetHack, rather than identical 19:14:10 ah :D 19:14:20 and it's diverged more from that to become a roguelike of its own 19:14:23 err, GBA, not DS 19:14:25 I think 19:14:29 then it got ported to a bunch of other systems 19:14:33 it was some Nintendo portable, anyway 19:14:46 but even more than that i'd LOVE to have something dwarf fortress like for android 19:14:48 (So, the Famicom version of Attribute Zone, is supporting input from the keyboard in all cases! You can use the standard controller but only for playing ROM levels and the other features are not supported unless you use a keyboard) 19:15:27 dwarf fortress is already unplayable on a PC, and uses too much power 19:15:32 also, do you guys know cataclysm? 19:15:38 Though I suspect some of that is due to bad programming 19:15:38 Jafet: yeah, i play it via ssh :D 19:15:50 quite unsure 19:16:10 i do think the maths behind it are pretty well 19:16:23 That http://blog.regehr.org/archives/161 is wrong when it says "int main(void) { unsigned short a = 65535; return a + 1; } -- may return 65536 or 0 -- depending on whether the particular C implementation being used has defined the size of an unsigned short to be 16 bits or to be larger than 16 bits", incidentally. It can return 0 (if both unsigned short and unsigned int are 16 bits), 65536 (if ... 19:16:29 ... the size of int is 18 bits or larger) or "the result is implementation-defined or an implementation-defined signal is raised" (if short is 16 bits and int is 17 bits), or the behaviour is undefined (if both short and int are 17 bits). 19:16:37 I continue to hold the position that df2 is not actually a game, based on my attempt to "play" it 19:16:59 fizzie: some promotion thing? 19:17:03 df2 as in a sequel to dwarf fortress, or a sequel to slaves to armok? 19:17:08 fizzie: OK, although I don't expect most computers to have 17-bits numbers 19:17:19 Jafet: df2? 19:17:20 also, you should point that out, just to give more power to the "can't reason bout my C" thing 19:17:25 Wait, it's sta2, not df2. 19:17:29 right 19:17:31 I suppose it is possible but many programs wouldn't work so well on such things anyways, regardless of that. 19:17:34 Bike: Yes, integer promotions. They are mentioned in comment #6 but without considering the case of small ints. 19:18:04 i watched a tutorial about df once 19:18:06 Oh, it's also mentioned in comment #16 in an almost complete form. 19:18:31 after half an hour it said "finally, we are in the game. this is, where most of the players quit, too" 19:18:52 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:18:59 It's missing the implementation-defined case, but that's just additional finessing. 19:19:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:19:14 hmmmmm now i wish i had more time/effort, i want to prove kinetics is impossible again 19:19:43 -!- adu has joined. 19:20:38 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:21:20 fizzie: I was trying to figure out if 16-bit short, 17-int is legal; if int and unsigned int have to be the same size, it isn't 19:21:21 myname: the one time i tried to play df we were going to do a tradeoff game but worldgen took so long that we ran out of time 19:21:32 because it has to be a multiple of CHAR_BIT 19:21:36 :D 19:21:49 can't CHAR_BIT be 1 19:21:50 Bike: let me guess "nah, maximum time, what could go wrong" 19:21:51 however, could int be 24 bits, 7 of which are padding bits (with unsigned int being 24 bits) 19:21:57 Bike: no, has to be at least 8 19:21:59 myname: basically 19:22:01 callforjudgement: sucks 19:22:12 `coins 19:22:14 bercoin thcoin norfualcoin reviejcoin datecoin cluecoin irkcoin sinrcoin anycoin hypecoin cluhiccoin undercoin l0jdcoin spacecoin develatlinecoin birthcoin dzecoin beakgefcoin leszccoin khalcoin 19:22:50 good coins 19:22:54 we've had "cluecoin" before 19:22:55 also, good morning everyone 19:23:08 evening kmc 19:23:15 hello hello, we have been discussing weird C for far too long 19:23:20 @localtime callforjudgement 19:23:21 Local time for callforjudgement is Sun Apr 13 20:23:20 2014 19:23:23 anycoin sounds like it could be actually useful 19:23:23 sorry that I missed it :( 19:23:26 weird C is like weird fiction except incredibly dull 19:23:31 oh, the conversation's still going on 19:23:32 Now you need a silver coin, gold coin, copper coin, platinum coin, lead coin, iron coin, and radioactive coin. 19:23:43 (i.e. cryptocoin compatible with every other cryptocoin) 19:24:01 callforjudgement: Unsigned int can have padding too. 19:24:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:24:03 unicoin would be another nice name for that 19:24:11 fizzie: oh right, it's only unsigned char that can't 19:24:23 Unsigned char, and the exact-width integer types from . 19:24:24 because unsigned char has to be able to type-pun correctly 19:24:35 fizzie: yeah but they don't have to exist 19:24:40 zzo38: 180Tantalumcoin 19:24:41 Right. 19:24:52 one nice thing I noted is that C11 reserves uint9_t, uint10_t, etc., as well as the least and fast variants 19:25:01 Now I wrote document of "text adventure intermediate language" 19:25:01 180mTantalumcoin, rather 19:25:04 olsner: like, i will farm a dogecoin in an hour and sell it for hundreds of dollars as a bitcoin? 19:25:05 callforjudgement: heh 19:25:11 also POSIX reserves every name ending in _t? 19:25:15 kmc: yes 19:25:21 http://sprunge.us/PfHL 19:25:29 there are some really broad reservations, though 19:25:34 myname: something like that, but the exchange rate could be reasonable (whatever that means) 19:25:36 like C reserves everything starting with a capital E 19:25:41 Now I can write a compiler library for its use. 19:25:42 if errno.h is included 19:25:49 olsner: i call that "usd" 19:26:03 Is this good like it is now? 19:26:08 myname: that's not a -coin 19:26:08 (splint will give warnings about that on high warning levels; that's one of its less buggy warnings) 19:26:14 usdcoin 19:27:32 or better, mynamecoin 19:27:49 im gonna be famous 19:28:25 POSIX also reserves every identifier beginning with "str", "mem" or "wcs" if is included, and every identifier beginning with "str" if is included. 19:28:48 And everything beginning with "to" or "is" if is included. 19:28:53 Please tell me if this document is better now, or if you think anything I did wrong. 19:28:57 why not just reserve the whole thing 19:29:05 then you couldn't write programs 19:29:11 Why not 19:29:22 i smell a new esolang 19:29:22 Also all identifiers ending in _MIN or _MAX if is included. 19:29:23 hmm, actually 19:29:33 -!- ^v has joined. 19:29:36 C with no non-reserved identifiers, and all reserved identifiers are used for a legal purpose 19:29:39 could be interesting 19:29:39 greedy old posix 19:29:55 I was wondering about storing data in argv, but sadly it doesn't have a standard name 19:31:44 You can use errno as an arbitrary int, I believe. 19:32:07 "The macros are -- errno which expands to a modifiable lvalue that has type int and thread local storage duration, --" 19:32:11 yes, I think that would work 19:32:21 (Though it's just one int.) 19:32:24 It may be legal to overwrite stderr 19:32:25 could you create a bunch of extra threads in order to gain more storage? 19:32:31 In which case, you get a pointer 19:33:09 admittedly, communicating between them could be a pain 19:33:11 "stderr" and such are not required to be lvalues. 19:33:25 They're just "expressions of type "pointer to FILE" that point to FILE objects". 19:33:44 (They're also macros.) 19:34:28 There's the "file loophole", of course, if you allow for a reasonably consistent file system as seen by fopen/etc. 19:35:23 Though I'm not sure where the FILE * would go for doing more than one operation on an opened file. 19:36:30 Close and open it again 19:36:46 Wait, you can't chain functions. 19:36:46 But you can't close it if you read from it. 19:37:02 is fcloseall() standard? 19:37:13 I don't think it is. 19:37:19 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 19:37:32 And anyway it'd be really convenient if you could, say, seek *and* read. 19:37:42 "GNU extension" 19:37:56 If we're in posix, there is optarg. 19:39:06 If we're in POSIX, you can use open() and such, and stick the fd in... errno... except it's perhaps not the safest place when calling library functions. 19:39:25 optind and opterr can store fds. 19:39:54 Or you can dup2 it around to a known index. 19:40:16 Hm, there's that. 19:40:34 doing this in C11 is more interesting; POSIX sounds like it'd be too easy 19:42:12 I guess you can always freopen("data.file", "w+", stderr); and then just use the stderr handle for storage. 19:43:29 stderr's readable, right? 19:43:40 You can freopen it to any mode. 19:43:43 I know that reading from stderr's one way to get at the terminal when you have a redirected stdin 19:43:55 although a fragile one, there are better methods if on POSIX 19:44:49 Hm, you can store a function pointer and retrieve it using signal. 19:45:12 (Obviously, you can in fact store one per signal.) 19:45:51 That might be handy, though you can of course store one in a file too. 19:46:29 (Just take the address of a compound literal of a pointer-to-function type, and pass to fwrite.) 19:47:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:47:15 Though reading it back in any very useful way sounds slightly more tricky. 19:48:15 At least the hello, world program is easy. 19:48:35 -!- augur has joined. 19:48:44 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:48:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:49:47 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 19:51:03 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:51:48 Hmm, you can use asctime for up to 26 bytes of storage. 19:52:19 myname: regarding usdcoin, see Xia, P. (2014) Dollarcoin: A cryptocurrency with proof-of-dollar. Presented at ACH SIGBOVIK 2014, Carnegie Mellon University, 1 April (pp. 75-77). http://sigbovik.org/2014/proceedings.pdf 19:52:46 -!- heroux has joined. 19:52:55 kmc: there is nothing crazy enough for not being done :D 19:52:59 correct 19:53:06 Jafet: You can get a pointer, yes, but any call to asctime will overwrite the contents, right? 19:53:16 i'm going to imagine this is the xia of "prove newtonian mechanics impossible" fame 19:53:29 myname: the proof of work entails writing a hash on a dollar bill, burning it, and posting the video to the block chain 19:53:49 #blazeit 19:54:49 random question: does anyone know of a paper title better than "Can One Hear The Shape Of A Drum" 19:54:58 kmc: I'm loving this 19:55:17 Is all sigbovik humorous? I take it from that chart in the paper that that's the poin 19:55:19 point 19:56:06 Sgeo: yes, although it does publish humorous things that are real and impressive, as well as fake things 19:56:15 notably http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/mario/ 19:56:24 playfun rox my sox 20:03:26 When looking at Nock on esolang wiki it also links to the Urbit they mention, they use kelvin version numbering, where higher numbers indicate more likely to change and zero means it won't ever change at all. 20:04:12 zzo38, that's clever 20:04:21 bitches don't know bout my electron degeneracy pressure 20:05:12 nobody's in #oteric.es 20:05:56 I am kind of curious how many people joined and parted that as you said it, kmc 20:06:19 lol 20:06:25 (at least 1) 20:06:47 -!- password2 has joined. 20:14:06 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 20:16:06 -!- adu has joined. 20:17:13 -!- ^v has joined. 20:23:52 Now I am writing the C library for dealing with Text Adventure Intermediate Language, and then, maybe also the Haskell library can be written. 20:27:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:30:55 -!- stuntaneous has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:31:35 TAIL 20:34:48 zzo38, that sounds interesting 20:35:20 Does Inform (the only text adventure creation thing I know about) use Text Adventure Intermediate Language or does it use something else? 20:36:42 -!- tromp has joined. 20:38:11 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:38 -!- ^v has joined. 20:40:53 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:52:27 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:52:32 Taneb: It compile into a Z-machine code, with some differences. 20:52:52 Z-machine is OK too, but much more complicated than the one I design. 20:56:41 Inform also compiles into Glulx. 20:56:47 (which is even more complicated) 21:07:45 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:10:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:10:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:14:12 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 21:14:22 (Both of them lack some features the other one has.) 21:14:22 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:14:51 -!- ^v has joined. 21:16:14 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39309&oldid=39287 * Zerk * (+11) /* B */ ++Boxy 21:16:45 -!- adu has joined. 21:20:40 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:20:46 I may write some text adventure games using TAIL format and some using Z-machine format. 21:21:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:22:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Client Quit). 21:22:42 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:25:46 -!- conehead has joined. 21:28:01 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:28:19 ais523: Jafet: Here's a rudimentary brainfuck interpreter in mostly-correct interpreter-free C, as long as you preprocess it out: http://sprunge.us/QJXJ 21:28:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:28:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:33 That's the only program it's been tested with, so expect bugs. 21:29:05 Oh, brainfuck without input, that is. 21:29:19 fizzie: *identifier-free? 21:29:23 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:29:24 Yes. 21:29:26 Thinko. 21:29:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:29:57 fizzie: you're storing data in stdin's file pointer? clever 21:30:01 fizzie: heh, is that meant to be TC? 21:30:14 Yes, the file position is used as a variable safer than errno. 21:30:15 err, stderr's 21:30:16 Guest46968: it's a BF interp 21:30:19 so yes 21:30:28 ais523: typical C BF interps are not TC... 21:30:53 Well, under the limits imposed by sizeof (int) for the tape. 21:30:54 fizzie: nice :D 21:30:57 oh, identifier-free 21:31:00 I was wondering what interpreter-free is. 21:31:05 fizzie: right, you can use fseek to get around that though 21:31:07 (arguably) 21:31:10 ftell is allowed to fail 21:31:19 that's identifier-free post-pre-processing I suppose 21:31:28 kmc: Yes. Or at least should be. 21:32:01 Guest46968: Right, though I'd need to mungle it even more for that, since I rely on seeking the same file to other places than the tape. 21:32:14 fizzie: why is there a sizeof(int) limit? I thought the general argument in favour of C being TC is that file pointers are allowed to be bignums 21:32:27 ah right, ftell calls 21:32:52 ais523: It keeps the tape pointer in one of those errno-read "variables", so that it can seek the stderr file between the program source and current tape cell. 21:33:58 Also I'm not entirely sure the initial reading of the brainfuck program is valid, but that could be worked around pretty easily by just embedding the program. 21:34:30 It's at least relying on rewind() to not set errno. 21:35:28 I guess I could just open the stdin file (which is never written to, only its position is used) a bit earlier so I can use V to store the program length over the rewind, actually. 21:35:38 ais523: ftell can fail 21:36:11 Guest46968: I mean that fizzie's program uses ftell 21:36:13 at least in POSIX (EOVERFLOW) 21:36:20 and thus is bounded by off_t limits and so not TC 21:36:35 but I'm telling you you're wrong 21:36:40 or, oh 21:36:41 okay 21:36:44 I missed the context 21:36:48 but a program that didn't ftell could still be TC 21:37:42 http://sprunge.us/iMEW?c I think that's better w.r.t. the initial program loading. I'm probably not going to work around that TC limitation. 21:38:13 Though it could be done very trivially by looking at brainfuck without output, in which case stdout can be dedicated for the tape, and can grow to arbitrary size without ftell issues. 21:38:24 (Brainfuck without output is kind of boring, though.) 21:40:10 http://paradoxspace.com/ 21:40:41 http://www.paradoxspace.com/fourohfour 21:40:48 I'm still not entirely sure something like fwrite(&errno, 1, 1, stderr); is completely valid, since I guess if library functions are free to set errno whenever they want, fwrite could e.g. zero errno before reading in the bytes. 21:42:59 I think most functions only modify errno if there's an error 21:43:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:43:28 <^v> :O 21:43:57 not sure if they don't have to change it or if they must not change it though 21:44:12 I think they have to leave it the same, but maybe can change it during the call 21:44:25 that's supposed to be unobservable because errno's thread-local 21:44:34 I hadn't thought of passing &errno as a buffer to write before today 21:48:04 I suspect you can't take the address of errno, e.g. because it could be a macro that expands to a function call 21:48:47 `addquote like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. man that must have sucked People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" That's why they're called rulers, you know 21:48:48 1184) like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. man that must have sucked People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" That's why they're called rulers, you know 21:49:00 olsner: it's defined as an lvalue, IIRC 21:49:12 although I think it can be a macro that expands to a pointer dereference 21:49:46 It is normally a macro that expands to a pointer dereference of a function call. 21:49:59 hmm, it would be a bit difficult to set errno if it's an rvalue 21:50:08 is &*functioncall() legal? 21:50:08 `run echo $'#include \nerrno' | cpp | tail 21:50:09 ​# 1 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/asm/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 "/usr/include/linux/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 26 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 47 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 3 4 \ extern int *__errno_location (void) __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) __attribute__ ((__const__)); \ # 37 "/usr/include/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 21:50:35 that looks more like head than tail 21:50:40 Every lvalue should have an address. 21:51:22 `run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | tail 21:51:22 ​# 1 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/asm/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 "/usr/include/linux/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 26 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 47 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 3 4 \ extern int *__errno_location (void) __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) __attribute__ ((__const__)); \ # 37 "/usr/include/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 21:51:31 Oh, wait 21:51:35 `run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | rev 21:51:35 ​">nidts<" 1 # \ ">enil-dnammoc<" 1 # \ ">nidts<" 1 # \ 4 3 1 "h.onrre/edulcni/rsu/" 1 # \ 4 3 "h.onrre/edulcni/rsu/" 92 # \ 4 3 1 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 1 # \ 4 3 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 323 # \ 4 3 1 "h.sfederp/stib/ung-xunil-46_68x/edulcni/rsu/" 1 # \ 4 3 2 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 423 # \ 4 3 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 653 # \ 4 3 1 "h.s 21:51:42 Nope 21:51:45 `run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | tac 21:51:46 int main() { return (*__errno_location ()); } \ # 2 "" 2 \ \ # 59 "/usr/include/errno.h" 3 4 \ # 37 "/usr/include/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ extern int *__errno_location (void) __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) __attribute__ ((__const__)); \ # 47 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 3 4 \ # 26 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ 21:52:25 `run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | grep main 21:52:26 int main() { return (*__errno_location ()); } 21:55:52 side note: i am kinda disappointed that there is a cat replacement called dog but no tac replacement called god 21:56:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:56:59 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 21:58:56 -!- adu has joined. 22:00:22 Can you notify Google of the bug in their server that isn't correctly implementing headerless HTTP? 22:00:39 (There are other bugs in their server too; sometimes a HEAD request returns 404 even though GET works properly.) 22:00:45 It's defined as a "modifiable lvalue" and the possibility of it being *somefunction() is explicitly mentioned. 22:02:57 myname: You are allowed to write such software if you like to make 22:03:36 zzo38: that doesn't sound like any fun at all 22:03:59 OK then don't write such program, if you don't want to write such program. 22:04:49 only advantage would be being the founder of god 22:12:09 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:16:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 22:17:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:29:34 -!- adu has joined. 22:31:11 -!- not^v has joined. 22:31:51 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:04:37 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 23:09:40 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:21:39 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:41:27 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39310&oldid=39308 * Zerk * (+248) mostly/* Nock Interpreter */ apparently things are reversible, partially. Which I supposed was implied by "unification". 23:41:53 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 23:43:34 I started writing this library in C (for Text Adventure Intermediate Language), and then I should probably also write one for Haskell, and one for SQL, as well. If you want any other programming language then write it by yourself please 23:43:46 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:44:04 Maybe you have some idea how it could be represent by Haskell? 23:44:43 Do you have a better idea than I do? 23:45:30 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:49:24 I don't know what Text Adventure Intermediate Language is 23:53:31 Sgeo: http://sprunge.us/ULeC 23:54:52 -!- boily has joined. 23:59:13 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-04-14: 00:03:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 00:08:12 [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39311&oldid=39309 * Zerk * (+9) /* A */ added [[Ax]] 00:08:16 [wiki] [[Nock]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39312&oldid=39289 * Zerk * (+22) Added [[Ax]] 00:08:23 [wiki] [[Ax]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39313 * Zerk * (+3792) Created page with "Ax is a [[Nock]] derivative by [https://github.com/mnemnion mnemnion] aimed for nondeterminism, a more asthetic operator order, and sane big O. =Specification= This text speci..." 00:08:52 -!- xpte has joined. 00:13:31 `relcome xpte 00:13:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: relcome: not found 00:13:49 @tell elliott AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAURGH! 00:13:49 Consider it noted. 00:14:01 -!- Guest46968 has changed nick to ellioyy. 00:14:03 -!- ellioyy has changed nick to elliott. 00:14:05 @clear-messages 00:14:05 Messages cleared. 00:14:07 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 00:14:17 -!- elliott_ has joined. 00:14:22 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to elliott. 00:14:26 [wiki] [[Smartboxes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39314&oldid=39297 * Zerk * (+24) Increased wiki dual-linkedness, i.e. blatantly promoting my own nearly identical version. 00:14:54 elliott: there you are, you infamous scallywag! 00:18:32 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39315&oldid=39310 * Zerk * (-14) /* Nock Interpeter */ recursion fix 00:22:35 hi. 00:24:40 hi. how are you doing by this fine evening? 00:25:01 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:47:06 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39316&oldid=39315 * Zerk * (+101) Added string representation. 00:49:39 adequate 00:51:55 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 01:00:59 satisfying. 01:01:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN CHAPTER 14). 01:01:09 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 01:16:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:29:27 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:05:14 `coins 02:05:15 lumcoin iiichcoin ostcndoncoin constinycoin graniccoin eichcoin befucoin ever2coin excelumbftancoin quyrecoin iptifcoin filecoin snorisccoin singecoin quycoin systepcoin broacoin scribildcoin uddencoin c-loncoin 02:05:29 eichcoin 02:05:30 c.c 02:06:20 `cat $(which coins) 02:06:21 cat: $(which coins): No such file or directory 02:06:43 `cat bin/coins 02:06:43 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 02:14:30 -!- tromp has joined. 02:15:47 I wish Kickstarter could let you donate to stretch goals and refund if stretch goal not met 02:15:59 Well, that may be a bad idea, but that's what I want to do with this one Kickstarter 02:16:21 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1554093685/erfworld-print-book-2-and-draw-book-3 02:27:50 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:08:05 * kmc gets very confused by a file that turns out to have a space at the start of its name 03:16:49 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:34:08 Hmm, ls and zsh seem to be unsurprised by strange filenames 03:35:22 touch $'a\nb\tc'; cat a$'\n'b$'\t'c 03:38:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:39:03 Write message about Spanish Oteric channel in Spanish, so that Spanish people can understand. 03:39:19 (Otherwise, only English people will try to understand) 03:50:40 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:51:08 -!- not^v has joined. 03:59:29 http://www.reddit.com/r/wesnoth/comments/1cnir2/growing_wesnoth_with_bitcoin_would_this_idea_be/c9ii3c3 03:59:41 Bitcoin people are starting to scare me 04:00:32 On the other hand, I now have a lot of respect for the Wesnoth devs 04:01:08 they're only just now starting to scare you? 04:04:34 -!- adu has joined. 04:33:41 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:33:54 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:35:37 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:35:39 -!- copumpkin has quit (Client Quit). 04:36:04 -!- copumpkin has joined. 04:47:49 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 05:30:33 elliott: I've changed my mind on Dinosaur Comics, by the way. 05:36:27 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 05:43:14 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 05:56:43 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39317&oldid=39316 * Zerk * (+259) Fixed decrement-is-expensive logic /* Sugar */ conjunctions 06:07:46 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:09:29 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39318&oldid=39216 * 88.217.159.238 * (+99) Add shellfuck - a Brainfuck interpreter written in shell script. 06:20:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 06:22:35 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 06:34:20 -!- password2 has joined. 06:48:58 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: bbl). 07:02:23 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:03:17 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 07:12:15 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:15:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:21:33 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39319&oldid=39317 * Zerk * (+138) Added section /* Unification */ 07:30:50 -!- augur has joined. 07:35:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:45:28 -!- augur has joined. 07:50:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:52:16 -!- augur has joined. 07:53:49 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:57:56 Jafet: ls in gnu coreutils has at least three quoting modes: don't quote anything, replace with question marks, quote with octal backslash escapes 07:58:00 or something like that 07:58:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:59:41 -!- augur has joined. 08:00:50 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:03:19 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 08:07:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:29:20 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39320&oldid=39319 * Zerk * (+336) Defined what assignment actually is. Which upon recollection was more useful that what I'd been writing in, resulting in considerable refactoring. 08:33:28 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:39:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:41:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:42:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Client Quit). 08:48:34 -!- augur has joined. 08:57:41 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:17:52 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:45:34 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:46:55 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:47:11 -!- nortti has joined. 09:48:32 -!- vravn has joined. 10:19:01 -!- boily has joined. 10:45:02 -!- nucular has joined. 10:45:02 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 10:45:02 -!- nucular has joined. 10:45:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:04:46 -!- yorick has joined. 11:06:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:23:59 "New CSC service available - Pouta cloud / Uusi CSC Pouta-pilvipalvelu käytettävissä" so punny 11:24:22 ("Pouta" is Finnish for non-rainy weather, and "poutapilvi" is a non-rainy cloud. (There might be a more exact definition.)) 11:31:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 12:16:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:38:36 Fun fact: the DOM interface to HTML5 audio/video stuff has a canPlayType(mimeType) function; it returns the empty string, the string "maybe" or the string "probably". I guess it's good not to be overly confident. 12:39:45 It's supposed to return "probably" if "the user agent is confident that the type represents a media resource that it can render", the empty string if it's "a type that the user agent knows it cannot render", and "maybe" otherwise. 12:42:44 (I haven't yet mananged to coax anything more than a "maybe" out of Chrome.) 12:49:16 poutapilvi is a good word 12:50:17 fizzie: well sure, most of these media containers can contain any codec in their insides 12:51:46 Yes, and I haven't gotten even a "maybe" out of the more niche one-format-only MIME types. 12:53:06 Though I'd assume something like WebM strictly speaking has a fixed list of allowed codecs? (Maybe it's still "maybe" for future changes, though.) 12:53:31 Ah -- "Generally, a user agent should never return "probably" for a type that allows the codecs parameter if that parameter is not present." 12:54:11 Right, 'audio/webm;codecs="vorbis"' -> "probably". 12:54:16 Well, that all makes sense. 12:55:08 Still, a protocol of lesser moral integrity would have spec'd "yes" as the response for "confident -- it can render". 12:58:57 fizzie: there are so many broken video files around us that even if you know the codec you can't be sure about anything 12:59:18 also buggy decoder software 12:59:49 haven't you ever see broken jpegs, pngs and avis? 13:00:13 the specification is ridiculous though 13:01:00 (What were they thinking? 'No, we can't use "no" for "no", because then if() would think it's true.'?!) 13:02:43 b_jonas: Arguing from that point of view, you couldn't answer "probably" either, since you can never be sure. 13:03:13 the best thing is that if you are sure, you have to answer "" or "probably". 13:04:37 Haven't you heard the campaign slogan? "'' means no!" 13:06:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:06:25 int-e: should return "do'neh'lini" and "a'la'ih" for no and yes 13:07:23 int-e: and then people will write checks like ("do’neh’lini" == value) in their code and wonder why it fails 13:09:49 different quotes. fun. 13:43:34 -!- hern has joined. 13:45:56 -!- hern has quit (Client Quit). 14:14:55 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:52:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:12:19 -!- conehead has joined. 15:16:25 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 15:18:24 -!- Sellyme has joined. 15:33:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 15:43:22 oh... 15:47:58 strange 16:04:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:11 -!- ^v has joined. 16:08:04 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ctrl-shift-esc * New user account 16:26:15 [wiki] [[Keya]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39321 * Ctrl-shift-esc * (+1528) Keya is a Brainfuck influenced language 16:28:10 -!- nisstyre has joined. 16:28:12 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39322&oldid=39311 * Ctrl-shift-esc * (+11) 16:34:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:46:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:47:31 -!- xpte has joined. 17:03:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:19:53 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:30:14 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 17:30:24 -!- password2 has joined. 17:31:34 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:32:33 -!- password2 has joined. 17:33:13 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:46:03 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:51:35 -!- augur has joined. 17:54:28 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:55:06 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:11:10 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:11:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:25:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:33:16 "brainfuck influenced" sounds euphemistic 18:36:18 I was wondering if it's the 2D-grid-in-place-of-tape brainfuck that was discussed here on channel a while ago, or some other 2D-grid-in-place-of-tape brainfuck. 18:40:50 what if we had a 2d grid in place of brainfuck 18:41:10 huh? 18:41:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:43:21 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:44:24 Is there an infinite dimensional brainfuck 18:48:06 There's an arbitrary-dimensional one, at least. 18:50:04 Dimensifuck claims to be infinite-dimensional. 18:50:45 Its wiki article also links to two sprunge.us pastes that have since passed away. 18:50:48 I was gonna ask about a 0-dimensional one, but that's just a push down automaton 18:51:05 without a stack 18:51:23 What about... 18:51:29 Continuous brainfuck 18:51:57 Like maybe you add Fourier modes or something 18:52:00 That sounds vaguely familiar, but I may be just thinking of the debacle that was continuous chess. 18:52:47 fizzie: aww. I was hoping it'd change <> to go forward/backward in the dimension specified by the current cell, which does not obviously preserve Turing-completeness. 18:53:14 I wonder if a continuous brainfuck would be equivalent to an Oracle machine 18:53:24 Aww, I was hoping Wayback machine archived sprunge.us pastes. 18:54:31 Continuous Turing machines are equivalent to oracles 18:54:33 -!- password2 has joined. 18:54:39 So I would guess yes 18:56:46 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:17:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:17:33 -!- password2 has joined. 19:29:17 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:31:16 olsner: Oh, 9983361024 bytes (10 GB) copied, 64370.4 s, 155 kB/s 19:32:31 so 2/3 done? 19:32:39 and it's speeding up, too. 19:32:48 (it's now faster than my internet connection ;-) ) 19:34:42 That was actually the last part, the other six gigs finished earlier. 19:34:57 fizzie: \o/ 19:34:57 | 19:34:57 >\ 19:35:13 is myndzi a bot or a human btw? 19:35:56 A human with a script has been my understanding. 19:36:32 so a bot that lost its human? 19:36:59 or a human that lost its human? 19:37:09 o.o 19:37:40 celebrate 19:38:16 ^celebrate 19:38:16 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 19:38:16 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 19:38:16 >\ c.c |\ /| | | |\ c.c /| | /| | |\ c.c /'\ 19:38:17 (_|¯´\ /´\ 19:38:17 |_) (_| |_) 19:51:19 hmm, Steins;Gate is an anime involving SERN [sic] running some time travel conspiracy, and something called a "Reading Steiner" that lets you remember other timelines 19:51:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:51:57 oh, and it's currently the all-time best anime (according to animenewsnetwork) 19:52:01 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:52:01 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:52:13 The "Sonseil Européen pour la Recherche Nucléaire"? 19:52:23 probably! 19:53:15 not Société? 19:53:17 or perhaps the sonseiru oiropeen pure ra etc 19:53:42 currently the all time <-- help 19:54:28 It's not like one thing would always be the best all-time something. 19:55:11 currently the all-time-up-until-now, I guess 19:56:39 I would've been fine with this if it was obviously a parody though (and I haven't watched it or anything) 19:57:45 cern stands for "Organisation Européenne pour la Recherche Nucléaire " so i think we can cut the animes some slack 19:59:33 crganisation 20:00:38 hm cern hasn't amde antiwater yet. disappointing 20:02:06 Bike: the semicolon in the name though 20:02:39 the same people made "ChäoS;HEAd" 20:03:02 :( 20:04:44 the spinoff Chäos;Head Love Chu Chu! would be a great name for an esolang though 20:08:32 And I thought the .hack folk were bad when it came to punctuation. 20:10:25 (I've only watched .hack//SIGN out of it.) 20:23:12 -!- augur has joined. 20:32:22 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:32:45 -!- ^v has joined. 20:39:14 TIL that the train providing high speed service between Helsinki and St Petersburg is built to 1522 mm gauge, which is the average of finnish (1524 mm) and russian (1520 mm) gauge 20:39:23 so that it runs equally well (equally poorly?) on both networks 20:40:04 that's a pretty small gauge difference 20:40:42 yeah, low speed trains of either gauge work fine on either gauge 20:41:38 http://skreened.com/dumbstuff/funny-meme unrelated 20:41:42 Man I saw gauge and I thought it was ##physics 20:42:38 gauge in a physics context just makes me think of a tao post i half remember 20:44:08 Gauge can get pretty weird in GR 20:48:50 I think I passively knew that fact. 20:52:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:04:53 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:05:10 [wiki] [[NRSRSSOMN]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39323 * EzoLang * (+2366) Created page with "'''NRSRSSOMN''' (Nameless Random String-Rewriting Systems Scribbled On Math Notebook) are a collection of [[:Category:String-rewriting paradigm|string-rewriting systems]] crea..." 21:05:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:05:35 [wiki] [[User:EzoLang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39324&oldid=32157 * EzoLang * (+15) 21:07:07 The e-zoo lang 21:07:16 it's gonna be a language where data is zoo animals 21:07:25 And it is in cage data structures 21:07:41 go a-head 21:08:32 oh wow, I somehow though that 12yo-me would've known better with nicks. though that it was at least 10yo-me 21:09:30 I've used Slereah_ for like 21:09:35 over 15 years 21:09:38 Not a smart move 21:09:42 It's basically my name 21:10:04 14 years old me didn't foresee that using your real name online would turn out bad in the future 21:10:50 what's bad about it for you 21:11:08 'cause now people can casually google you 21:11:12 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone). 21:11:55 https://www.google.com/search?q=fizzie+freenode more a function of uniqueness, i would think 21:12:16 I think that guy said it best : 21:12:22 age 11: worry about internet people finding me in real life, now: worry about people in real life finding me on the internet 21:12:23 "bike freenode" gets you a lot of articles about lilo dying, apparently 21:18:06 ok so i googled Ørjan Johansen just now... 21:18:45 the first page gives no relevant _text_ hits. 21:18:49 You need to go like to the seventh result of "fizzie freenode" to get a page with my real name on it. 21:18:50 -!- tertu has joined. 21:18:57 (At least as sorted for me.) 21:19:00 but there's a picture of me, which i had no idea was on the internet. 21:19:15 it's _not_ the one i've shown you before. 21:19:39 "Ørjan Johansen, leder for Miljøpartiet De Grønne (MDG) i Time --" I didn't know you were in politics. 21:19:55 my esolang page is on the second page of hits, though. 21:20:11 i'm not. 21:20:32 although coincidentally i _did_ vote for that party last election. 21:20:57 which was, given the election rules, afaict a wasted vote 21:21:32 I also didn't know you were in the field of "psychedelics, MDMA, drug policy, public health and evidence-based medicine". 21:21:36 (they got no representative from my county, and not enough total votes to get extra ones.) 21:21:50 fizzie: kmc is well known to be infectious 21:23:17 my stackoverflow page is on page 4 21:23:50 My real name is terribly Googleable, since I believe it's unique. :/ 21:25:52 oh the picture is one the university got on the press release from when i got the doctorate. 21:25:57 At least the image search for it has just two instances of my face, and then a whole lot of people, some of whom I know and some entirely unfamiliar. 21:28:07 http://www.ntnu.no/doktorgrader/dr.scient/09.98/johansen.html fwiw 21:28:34 That's strangely normal. 21:28:53 I don't know what I was expecting, but I was expecting something surprising. 21:29:17 well, he's wearing makeup to hide the scar 21:29:19 you expected a surprise and you were surprised 21:29:28 i'm not sure if they took that picture themselves, or if it's from that one passport photo i was particularly satisfied with once 21:30:14 I just cropped my face out of our professional-photographer-taken research group photo when I needed an up-to-date face for a thing. 21:30:21 * oerjan vaguely remembers that shirt 21:33:08 can't find any others, that might be the only one reachable through the web 21:37:13 Speaking of trains, they recently introduced two-floor restaurant carriages in the (two-floor) Intercity trains in Finland. 21:38:05 (Though the upstairs is just more or less regular seating.) 21:40:14 They claim it's a unique concept, but it might be just something they say. 21:40:18 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:40:39 http://www.vr.fi/en/index/palvelut/tietoja_junista/intercity/duettoplus.html in any case. 21:41:01 fizzie: do they have amusing accidents while bringing food up/down the stairs 21:41:04 is this a picture of oerjan 21:41:24 oerjan: I would certainly assume so. 21:41:35 Phantom_Hoover: i am not a train hth 21:41:49 sceptical 21:42:44 you brits and your weird spelling of skeptical 21:43:17 Septical. 21:43:43 fizzie: i am surprised they have many lines lone enough to justify that, it's only two hours to tampere right? i guess if you're going to oulu or something 21:43:54 fizzie: no i think that means american in cockney hth 21:44:11 lexande: They have introduced them, in fact, on the line from Helsinki to Oulu. 21:44:25 And it is indeed two hours to Tampere. 21:45:14 anyway amtrak has double-deck "cafe/lounge" cars on its western routes with the cafe downstairs and tables with seating both downstairs and upstairs, IIRC 21:46:27 I was going to say it's something like six-seven-eight hours to Lieksa, except (a) they no longer have a single service going the whole way, and (b) it only takes four and a half hours to Joensuu nowadays. This truly is the future. 21:46:37 i have never taken a train in finland :( ... well i took the helsinki metro a couple times 21:46:42 (We used to go Helsinki-Lieksa-Helsinki at least twice a year.) 21:47:11 Also ridiculous: the vr.fi netshop is closed from 22:30 to 06:00, because... I don't know, the servers need to sleep too? 21:47:30 (You can only look up schedules, not buy tickets.) 21:48:09 I guess they want someone to be looking after it at all times, but it's not like other companies generally seem to have trouble keeping their web-shops open. 21:49:06 megabus used to not let you use the site at all between 03:00 and 05:00 or something 21:49:07 Besides, I'm reasonably sure the ticket vending machines are open 24/7. 21:49:07 hm cern hasn't amde antiwater yet. disappointing <-- i have a hunch anti-oxygen might prove tricky? 21:49:11 dunno if that's still the case 21:49:39 They made some anti-molecules already. (Anti-H_2, maybe?) 21:50:25 Or maybe not. 21:50:36 "Antideuterium,[21][22] antihelium-3 (3He)[23][24] and antihelium-4 (4He) nuclei[25] have been produced so far" 21:50:41 (in addition to antihydrogen) 21:51:15 I guess I misremembered some of those news, then. 21:51:23 it's cool how we've made antihydrogen but still don't know how it's subjected to gravity 21:51:36 fizzie: clearly you mistook 2H and H2 21:52:14 ok so they've at least managed helium 21:52:26 {}^2H 21:52:35 i wonder if they've managed to make normal oxygen "from scratch" 21:53:05 -!- lexande has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 21:53:20 what would from scratch mean 21:53:22 Can you even do that without triple alpha? 21:53:28 from fusion of hydrogen, i assume 21:53:35 starting with hydrogen yeah 21:53:46 yeah in that case i doubt it, it's an awful lot of fusion to be doing 21:54:27 i'm pretty sure triple alpha can't be done in any laboratory we're going to have in the next thousand years 21:54:59 Except in the big one we inherited. 21:55:43 (The "runaway laboratory experiment" theory of solar system foundation.) 21:55:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:55:54 -!- lexande has joined. 21:56:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_process right, you need carbon to get the "metals", and for carbon you need triple alpha 21:56:24 Bike: i dunno, we don't have to do it continuously... 21:56:50 maybe some kind of "shoot things at a point" setup... 21:57:23 well a collider, but with less power and more incoming paths 21:57:38 enough to get a few atoms 21:58:09 3 beams of alpha particles crossing 21:58:36 can things actually be coordinated to get a termolecular interaction? i mean you're talking a 10^-17 second window 21:59:46 how does the sun manage it 22:00:12 we can't beat it on pressure, but maybe on precision? 22:00:13 -!- augur has joined. 22:00:16 Science is scary 22:00:46 Taneb: did you read DMM's latest sunday annotation 22:00:53 oerjan, I am afraid I didn't 22:01:00 oerjan: Breaking news: solar fusion mathematically proven to be impossible, Sun shuts down. 22:02:23 fizzie: i vaguely recall there was a scifi story where the plot was that the alien's ftl system didn't make sense, and when the humans showed them the experiments to prove relativity their starship broke down... 22:02:26 (Like what happened with all the... what was the thing that was supposedly unable to fly?) 22:02:29 *aliens' 22:02:36 well the fact it is possible was pretty surprising 22:02:44 fizzie, bumblebees 22:02:57 since it relies not just on the three-molecule thing but also on some energy resonance business i don't know shit about 22:03:04 god fuck that bumblebee thing 22:03:07 the bumblebees are secretly using invisible stilts 22:03:21 fluids behave differently at different scales breaking news 22:03:46 the people making the claim generally don't understand things in that depth anyway 22:03:50 Bike: let's not go ballistic over dead unicorn tropes. 22:04:07 yeah i know, it's just super irritating. insect flight is cool!! 22:04:43 oerjan: and nah dude i've seen actual people say science says bumblebees can't fly, not that they know shit about anything ofc 22:05:13 i like those tiny wasps that just have like a strut with lots of tiny filaments coming off 22:05:25 oerjan, now I have read it and maintain my opinion that science is scary 22:05:41 But hey, one synonym of scary is awesome 22:06:32 Taneb: also just in case you're entirely out of the loop, DMM started a new comic, which he actually draws. 22:06:40 Yeah, I think you linked me that 22:06:43 Every wednesday, right? 22:06:46 yeah 22:06:59 have you noticed how the real numbers are kind of crazy but going full constructivist is even crazier 22:07:01 I'll try to keep up with it 22:07:08 Phantom_Hoover, everything is scary 22:07:23 Phantom_Hoover: i have a few pdfs named things like 'more-finitist-crap' i can look at when i need a laff 22:07:32 he said crazy not scary * swats Taneb -----### 22:07:59 oerjan, things can be scary AND crazy 22:08:17 Bike: well the unicorn part is that any scientist ever claimed it, i guess. 22:08:24 oh sure yeah. 22:08:42 Oh man, I think I remember the finitists 22:09:14 what's scary about the real numbers? integers are scarier 22:09:17 Poor sods 22:09:40 http://www.businessinsider.com/i-was-assaulted-for-wearing-google-glass-2014-4 most cyberpunk thing i've seen all day 22:09:42 why does finitism even exist 22:09:59 because exponentiation isn't total maaaaan 22:10:09 tertu, because things are scary and when some people see scary things they get afraid and try to rationalize to what they understand 22:10:51 why not just accept it? you don't have to think of it as real, just think of it as a formalism that makes things easier to do or something. 22:10:58 Accepting is hard to do 22:11:00 wow platonist 22:12:06 -!- boily has joined. 22:12:21 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:12:21 ~metar CYUL 22:12:22 CYUL 142207Z 27010G16KT 12SM -SHRA BKN075 OVC120 OVC220 20/12 A2951 RMK AC6AC2CS1 CS TR PRESRR SLP995 DENSITY ALT 1100FT 22:12:32 okay 22:12:57 so that's platonist in that it's proposing that somehow things that are otherwise real can somehow not be? 22:13:07 I haven't actually accepted that numbers exist 22:13:12 just since you said "real" 22:13:36 tertu can speak? 22:14:04 ~metar EFHK 22:14:04 EFHK 142150Z 23004KT CAVOK 03/02 Q0998 NOSIG 22:14:26 Well, that's short. 22:14:41 ~metar EGNT 22:14:42 EGNT 142150Z 00000KT CAVOK 03/02 Q1029 22:14:51 That's shorter. 22:15:02 ~metar XYZW 22:15:02 it's not the size that counts, but how hot it is. 22:15:03 --- Station not found! 22:15:08 (Is that shortest?) 22:15:46 03/02 seems to be popular. 22:16:38 that's too mainstream for me. have you heard of 20/12? probably not; they're very obscure numbers. 22:17:17 `pastelog olsner.*~metar 22:17:20 ​/hackenv/bin/pastelog: line 2: cd: /var/irclogs/_esoteric: No such file or directory \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30653 22:17:48 hmm, guess not... does boily remember my metar code? 22:17:57 olsner: where are you again? 22:18:02 ~metar ESSA 22:18:03 ESSA 142150Z 30006KT CAVOK 03/01 Q1002 R88/0///95 NOSIG 22:18:04 ~metar ESSB 22:18:04 ESSB 142150Z AUTO 27003KT 9999NDV OVC220/// 04/02 Q1002 22:18:14 really, have you ever seen proof that 20 exists 22:18:58 I believe in 20 about as much as Canada 22:19:04 Bike: I'm Canadian. I embody conjectual existence. 22:19:23 `thanks olsner 22:19:24 Thanks, olsner. Tholsner. 22:19:48 canada exists 22:19:51 not sure about 20 22:20:31 shachaf: eh? 22:20:52 well, we have an example of a canada person right here, but i've yet to see a 20 22:21:28 Taneb, please prove that numbers exist. 22:21:29 gaSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSZpacho 22:21:38 Bike: you only think they're an example of a canada person, whereas we can prove things about 20 22:21:40 boily, I don't believe they do 22:21:44 maths is real, physics might be fake 22:21:47 `? gaszpacho 22:21:48 gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days 22:21:50 lexande: oh yeah, things like what 22:22:01 `? conflagrate 22:22:02 conflagrate? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:22:13 . o O ( hm. what was the entry again... ) 22:22:27 `? bookwatching 22:22:28 bookwatching is when you conflagrate birdwatching and the books used to identify them in the same object. 22:22:40 `? disflagrate 22:22:40 disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized. 22:22:43 `? gazpacho 22:22:44 You like Gazpacho and I like Gaspacho. Let's call the whole thing off! 22:22:49 boilyisms finally catch up w/im 22:23:00 when i was in spain i ate a lot of gazpacho 22:23:14 Bike: :D 22:25:18 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:26:26 `? gaczpaczo 22:26:26 gaczpaczo? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:26:29 :( 22:27:43 the set of gazpachoes only has a cardinality of two. 22:28:33 I think the set is infinite but we have a small selection of them in hackego 22:28:51 `? szoup 22:28:52 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 22:29:14 `? phở 22:29:15 Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. 22:29:31 The szoup in Spain falls mainly on the plains. 22:29:56 whoa, hungarian 22:30:49 valóban. 22:31:18 `? gazspacho 22:31:19 gazspacho? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 22:31:26 hm 22:31:32 `? gazspaczo 22:31:32 gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 22:33:37 `learn gaspasjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days 22:33:38 I knew that. 22:33:54 hm wait 22:33:57 `revert 22:33:57 Done. 22:34:05 `learn gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days 22:34:06 I knew that. 22:34:28 traditionally served warm for cold summer days? 22:34:33 `revert 22:34:33 Done. 22:34:40 `learn gaspatsjo was a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days 22:34:40 I knew that. 22:34:50 olsner: that's like, every other soup. 22:34:57 right. 22:35:07 I am now in awe about how hard it is to define the real numbers 22:35:07 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:35:12 But how simple the definition is 22:36:08 `run translatefromto en no soup 22:36:09 This google api no longer exists. 22:36:16 Taneb: which definition 22:36:34 oerjan: ♪ping♪ your Norwegian soup was PDFed. 22:36:58 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:37:34 shachaf: no:suppe, sv:soppa 22:37:45 boring 22:39:08 Archimedean complete totally ordered field 22:40:14 Taneb: oh, i thought you were, like, constructing them 22:40:39 I don't have the patience for constructivism 22:42:45 dedekind cuts don't seem hard 22:43:26 dedekind cuts are the best 22:43:53 you should have a good word for soup like hebrew does 22:45:33 fi:keitto we like to be different. 22:45:37 shachaf: m.*r.*q? 22:45:53 boily: yes, marak 22:48:18 fizzie: even the Estonians agree with the Sensible Way; ee:supp. 22:48:54 Well, "soppa" is used colloquially. 22:50:00 Though probably only for less fancy soups. 22:50:08 Goodnight 22:50:13 I hope you all have nice soup 22:50:26 Goodsoup. 22:50:32 * oerjan has bread 22:52:26 * oerjan super en sup suppe til supéen 22:52:32 bonne Tanuitb! 22:52:59 * boily pige que dalle à ce qu'oerjan dit. 22:54:17 shit this qu'oerjan said boily freelancing indeed. 22:55:13 ow. oooooow. I think I sprained the language zone in my brain trying to parse that. 22:55:39 ...then think of poor google translate which produced it. 22:56:07 * boily pats google translate. “sorry, bud. won't do that again. at least for a while.” 22:57:43 btw, super=sips (v), sup=sip (n), supé=supper (n, excessively formal) 22:58:45 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:59:56 (the informal word would be kveldsmat) 23:01:35 déjeuner, dîner, souper. as it should be, not like from those weird Frenchmen. 23:01:39 'In most parts of The United States and Canada today, "supper" and "dinner" are considered synonyms.' 23:02:44 For the record, fi:keitto is derived from the verb "keittää", to boil something. (But only the transitive verb; if something's just boiling, the verb is "kiehua".) 23:02:57 oerjan: That's supperb. 23:05:06 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:05:25 (I guess you could use "kiehuttaa" in place of "keittää", but it sounds slightly clunky. But "kiehauttaa" -- to bring to a boil, to parboil -- is a word that is used.) 23:06:14 (Languages are so silly.) 23:06:33 sounds like the difference between "koke" and "koke opp" in norwegian. 23:07:09 That sounds like the difference between cocaine and the actual act of snorting cocaine. 23:08:14 OKAY 23:09:12 "Kokkeli" is a Finnish (very) colloquial term for cocaine, though it actually means curd, or in "munakokkeli" scrambled eggs. 23:09:32 i think with the right dialectical munging i can get the "kokain" and "koka inn" to sound similar. 23:09:33 I assume it's related to "coagulate". 23:10:49 (the later would mean boiled off of all liquid, or thereabouts) 23:11:12 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:13:18 Welp, good soup from me too. -> 23:18:18 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39325&oldid=39320 * Zerk * (+1193) Added sugared and defined chain assignment 23:22:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WHARGHARBL CHICKEN). 23:22:52 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:22:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:49:01 @tell fizzie now that i think about it, why is it "fi:" for finnish and not "su:"? 23:49:01 Consider it noted. 23:50:50 hm, that is odd, plenty of other languages use endonyms under that iso 23:51:33 and swedish gets sv... but japanese is ja 23:51:54 su is sundanese, looks like 23:59:03 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 2014-04-15: 00:17:38 nooodl: ISO 639-1 00:18:54 maybe they assigned exonyms/endonyms carefully to avoid clashes? 00:20:40 Also, suzzie might be a poor choice of nick for a male. 00:32:55 -!- tertu has joined. 01:06:05 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39326&oldid=39325 * Zerk * (+102) sugared primitives* 01:06:59 `coins 01:07:01 plexcoin mycentinycoin smicoin trifiedcoin bievencoin ciilcoin lazanctioncoin feranoltamcoin pichcoin morshipcoin vitycoin kolmogecoin circacoin alpingcoin onozcoin bitcoin pulcoin digfacoin ettercoin ischcoin 01:07:22 ion: oh i get it now (an hour later) 01:07:46 plexcoin, a cryptocoin for EVE? 01:07:48 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:11:11 Sgeo: You play eve? 01:11:43 I played a little bit, not much 01:11:44 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:11:50 I'm occasionally interested in reading about it 01:11:52 What alliance/coalition? 01:11:53 oh 01:11:53 ok 01:11:56 Last time all I did was take pretty pictures 01:12:04 Of the EVE Gate and the violent wormhole 01:12:41 -!- nooodl has joined. 01:13:47 http://i.imgur.com/QnZs290.png hmm doesn't quite show it 01:14:12 http://i.imgur.com/WvcujFs.jpg 01:18:33 Yeah, I've been to the eve gate and lived in a hole for a while 01:19:43 -!- tertu has joined. 01:29:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:33:15 If I ever manage to stay in it, I'd... well, I would head for TEST if it wasn't dead 01:34:00 I am currently blue with TEST, though I am a little sad about that 01:35:30 blue? 01:35:46 <-- not the most knowledgeable about EVE 01:36:05 Blue = have status wherein we do not shoot each other 01:36:14 In particular, TEST is part of the HERO coalition at the moment 01:36:29 I am a part of SOUND, who is currently supporting HERO's attempt to claim Catch after the russians fucked up 01:36:31 * Sgeo suddenly remembers Ferion 01:37:33 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:37:59 -!- erdic has joined. 01:38:05 "10^4 players" 01:38:13 But the site says 396000 players 01:38:31 I think some of the recent battles in eve have had over 10^4 players in a single system >_> 01:38:36 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:38:41 The Ferion forums are down :( 01:39:09 err, nvm, looks like there were only 3k in a single system 01:41:10 Ferion has 'arenas', that is, universes, that eventually get won and closed, with a brand new arena then starting 01:41:26 So, you don't get this lock-in of powerful people who've been there since day 1 01:41:36 Well, I guess I don't know if that's a real EVE issue 01:41:50 Also it's an entirely different genre of game 01:42:53 http://www.ferion.com/portal/screen.php 01:42:59 -!- erdic has joined. 01:43:12 -!- ter2 has joined. 01:43:12 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:43:19 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:43:31 Sgeo: In eve, being there earlier does give you some amount of power, but really not that much compared to coordination with other people 01:43:57 Sgeo: The main power source is how many people you can get to 1.) Follow you and 2.) Not fuck up 01:44:20 BRAVE (the most potent alliance from the HERO coalition) is essentially entirely constructed of a legion of newbies 01:44:30 they fail at #2 pretty hard, but there are enough of them to make up for it 01:44:47 You really only need a few people with a lot of SP/ISK to form a backbone around which other players can form 01:47:09 -!- tertu3 has joined. 01:47:59 -!- erdic has joined. 01:51:11 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:51:45 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:52:59 -!- erdic has joined. 01:53:07 -!- tertu has joined. 01:53:42 The game mechanics are biased heavily towards having thousands of minions in rifters 01:55:50 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 01:57:27 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:57:59 -!- erdic has joined. 01:58:18 -!- erdic has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 02:02:48 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:02:59 -!- erdic has joined. 02:07:15 -!- ^v has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 02:08:14 -!- ^v has joined. 03:01:21 Eh, my alliance is small, and we get by fine 03:02:08 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:02:36 -!- ^v has joined. 03:05:05 i feel this channel should know that, apparently thanks to the earlier discussion of nucleosynthesis, i had a dream about nazi nuclear reactors 03:19:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:22:14 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:25:05 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:48:23 -!- tertu has joined. 04:12:29 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:31:59 -!- tertu has joined. 05:17:08 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39327&oldid=39326 * Zerk * (+833) Moved integer sign to a key. Which will probably cause problems with 0 at some point *continues perpetually rewriting everything* 05:31:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 05:43:59 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:44:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 05:45:08 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:05:40 -!- password2 has joined. 06:25:29 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39328&oldid=39327 * Zerk * (+518) Added $$$$… referencing outer levels, /* Standard Library */ and used it to factor out math into a subbox with output re-colored as ints. 06:46:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 06:50:14 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 06:51:34 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 07:16:13 [wiki] [[Brainfuck algorithms]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39329&oldid=39103 * 172.248.146.87 * (+1) /* Print value of cell x as number */ Return SP to it's starting position when finished 07:26:03 -!- Froox has joined. 07:27:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:36:48 fungots fall on fungot falls 07:36:49 kmc: lisp could do that too ( insist on precision) but many people still speak of it and make it simpler 07:37:25 fungot: whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent 07:37:25 kmc: maybe the words should be longer and harder? and software should be higher in quality how? 07:39:08 fungot: Stop making sense it's scary. 07:39:08 fizzie: it's reserving 1424 bytes, then i can't 07:40:29 fungot: what is it reserving those bytes for? 07:40:29 olsner: and then you can hit alt-space be one 07:41:15 less sense, but pretty good still... must be something in the data 07:42:03 @tell nooodl You must ask "ISO 639-1:2002, Codes for the representation of names of languages — Part 1: Alpha-2 code" that. 07:42:03 Consider it noted. 07:42:28 Oh, someone already pointed to it. 07:42:43 (I didn't read scrollback, only @masseurs.) 07:47:59 Possibly "Part 4: General principles of coding of the representation of names of languages and related entities, and application guidelines" would contain the reason, but I don't want to pay CHF 138 for it. 07:51:22 hella CHF 07:56:19 kmc: 10^27 CHF? :( 07:58:32 a bit over ten trillion years of current world GDP 08:01:19 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:05:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:06:05 earth has the highest GDP of any planet in our solar system 08:19:24 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:24:06 kmc: Like they say, "to be born on Earth is like winning the lottery". 08:24:32 Also the longest life expectancy by far, I assume. 08:29:44 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:31:23 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:45:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:05:50 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 09:05:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:05:50 -!- AndroidKitKat has joined. 09:06:01 Many people here. :D 09:16:49 `relcome AndroidKitKat 09:16:50 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: relcome: not found 09:16:56 B| 09:17:31 !welcome AndroidKitKat 09:17:33 AndroidKitKat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 09:17:33 kmc: Hi. :D 09:18:12 Who here uses brainfuck? 09:20:17 AndroidKitKat, a lot of us from time to time 09:20:27 Why do you ask? 09:20:44 I need general tips and tricks. 09:20:45 commercial viability of enterprise brainfuck solution? 09:21:15 Huh? 09:21:29 (/joking) 09:21:51 * lifthrasiir really sucks on joking 09:21:57 lifthrasiir, I found it funny 09:22:00 * AndroidKitKat has no sense of humor. :/ 09:22:19 Taneb: thank you very much. :S 09:22:37 AndroidKitKat, if you are storing lots of data, fixing the ends and only the ends to be zero works because then you can use [>] and [<] to navigate 09:23:30 Taneb: I see. 09:23:51 Not sure how good advice that actually 09:23:51 is 09:24:00 It's useful. 09:24:00 I've never written anything particularly big in brainfuck 09:24:22 i've written more brainfuck implementations than brainfuck programs, I think 09:24:28 Yeah, same 09:24:39 I once almost had one in lambda calculus 09:26:06 I had an optimizing Brainfuck implementation for the thesis 09:26:23 Oh, sweet 09:29:45 * AndroidKitKat wrote a brainfuck interpreter in a TI-83+. (Because I was bored as hell... <.<) 09:31:26 Has much research gone into algorithm complexity on the tape memory model? 09:31:50 Wut? 09:32:41 Most of what I've seen seems to be on the random access memory model 09:33:11 Wait, what are we talking about right now? 09:33:30 I am just rambling mostly 09:33:35 .-. 09:44:09 Set-flag-and-conditionally-unset-it is a common brainfuck construction, though I'm not sure that really counts as a tip. 09:44:55 As in, something like >+<[>-<[-]]>[xxx] for "do xxx is current cell was zero". 09:45:02 fizzie: Like, have a certain memory cell to keep track of? 09:47:45 I wrote something useful in brainfuck just the other day, but now I can no longer remember what it was. 09:47:59 ^thanks fungot 09:47:59 Thanks, fungot. Thungot. 09:48:04 Oh right, it was that. 09:48:18 Perhaps calling it "useful" is stretching things. 09:48:23 ^show thanks 09:48:23 >2,[>,]+15[>+6>+7>+3>+2<4-]>-6.>-.-7.+13.-3.+8.>-.>+2.<5[<]>[.>]>3+2.>.<3.<2[<]>[[-<2+>+>]+<-97[-4[-4[-6[-6[-4[>-<[-]]]]]]]>[[>]>2-11.<3[<]<.>3[.>]>3.>5][-]>]<3[[<]>2[.>]>5.>2] 09:48:28 `cat bin/thanks 09:48:28 ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; 09:48:50 The former is an implementation of the latter, done because HackEgo was offline there for a while. 09:49:24 Back. 09:51:05 That +<-97[-4[-4[-6[-6[-4[>-<[-]]]]]]]>[xxx] construct is an example of the kind of flag-based "more complicated if condition than just != 0" construction; it does xxx if the < cell is not one of 97, 101, 105, etc. 09:51:24 (Corresponding to the [^aeiouy], of course.) 09:51:47 Are the numbers just a "macro"? 09:53:01 Yes, -4 is just ----. 09:53:32 Oh, I see. 09:53:47 fungot's interpreter is based on compiling to a bytecode where consecutive +-s and <>s have been merged, and I thought I might as well implement ^show in a bit more compact way. 09:53:47 fizzie: ' whore' is on the emacs wiki. 09:53:48 Do you know an application which does that for you? 09:54:03 and <4 is just <<<< 09:54:06 ^def tmp bf ++++++++++-->>>>><. 09:54:07 Defined. 09:54:08 ^show bf 09:54:10 ^show tmp 09:54:11 +10-2>5<. 09:54:15 Huh. 09:54:21 and 15 means 11111 so +15 means ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++means ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++means ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++means ++++++++++++++++++++++++ 09:54:40 It's supposed to turn that into +8>4. 09:54:44 Or at least I thought it was. 09:54:58 Maybe I didn't implement that, and/or broke it. 09:55:05 ^source 09:55:05 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 09:56:03 Huh, seems I just dreamed I did it sanely. 09:56:14 does it strip comments? 09:56:18 Yes. 09:56:44 fizzie: Lol. 09:56:44 As you can clearly see from lines 360-367 or thereabouts, it only considers the repetition of a single instruction. 10:00:00 fizzie: whoa, that's scary 10:00:11 Anyways, somewhat off-topic, but what Lisp flavour should I learn? 10:00:23 that's in befunge! 10:00:34 b_jonas: It doesn't have "fung" in the name by accident. 10:02:01 "fungot - putting the fun back in befunge since 2008" 10:02:01 fizzie: do they block zip, etc too :) 10:02:31 that reminds me to NotJack who wrote a J evaluator irc bot in J 10:02:42 I wonder which of these is crazier 10:02:54 I don't know enough about befunge to decide 10:03:06 I don't have a Befunge interpreter in fungot (yet), to be fair. 10:03:06 fizzie: and adamantix is supposed to catch that willy nilly penguins and seals, i think, due to probable single connection to the server cause nothing happends when i do something like 10:03:28 J doesn't seem to be hard. 10:04:14 Also to belatedly comment on the Lisp flavours, I'm partial to Scheme but that's probably just due to SICP. 10:04:27 fizzie: that would be practical only if you include a good multi-dimensional source code editor with an irc interface so people can edit their source code 10:04:56 So, Scheme it is! 10:05:48 025*".srenileno rof enif tsuj si egnufeB">:#,_@ 10:05:50 AndroidKitKat: head on to http://www.racket-lang.org/ and http://www-sop.inria.fr/indes/fp/Bigloo/ 10:06:16 ) |.'.srenileno rof enif tsuj si egnufeB' 10:06:17 b_jonas: Befunge is just fine for oneliners. 10:06:31 Okay, mybe not quite *that* fine. 10:08:39 is there a magic 8-ball macro? 10:10:01 fizzie: ^ 10:11:17 ^bool 10:11:17 Yes. 10:11:26 (Okay, it's not quite.) 10:12:01 can you implement it in befunge or something? 10:12:16 I have a reference implementation in perlbot macro language 10:12:20 if that helps 10:12:50 (well it's quite simple, it just takes one of the 20 reply strings at random) 10:13:17 That's certainly doable in Befunge; there's the ? instruction that (uniformly) randomly does one of ^ v < >. 10:13:31 It would also be doable as a ^style 8ball via the babble generator. 10:13:53 ah 10:16:12 Though perhaps it'd be kind of pointless, since it's one "shuf -n 1" on HackEgo. 10:16:48 -!- boily has joined. 10:17:04 oh, let's try that 10:18:23 `run <<<"It is certain/It is decidedly so/Without a doubt/Yes definitely/You may rely on it/As I see it, yes/Most likely/Outlook good/Yes/Signs point to yes/Reply hazy try again/Ask again later/Better not tell you now/Cannot predict now/Concantrate and ask again/Don't count on it/My reply is no/My sources say no/Outlook not so good/Very doubtful" tr / \\n > 8ballreplies 10:18:25 No output. 10:18:55 `run shuf -n 8ballreplies 10:18:59 `run shuf -n 1 8ballreplies 10:18:59 Most likely 10:19:25 No output. 10:19:43 `run shuf -n 1 8ballreplies # Are there 20 replies? 10:19:44 It is certain 10:19:51 ` run wc -l 8ballreplies 10:19:52 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 10:19:56 `run wc -l 8ballreplies 10:19:56 20 8ballreplies 10:20:50 `run ls bin/8* 10:20:50 ls: cannot access bin/8*: No such file or directory 10:21:18 `run echo $'#!/bin/sh\nshuf -n 1 8ballreplies' > bin/8ball 10:21:20 No output. 10:21:30 `8ball Did I create the script correctly? 10:21:31 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/8ball: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/8ball: cannot execute: Permission denied 10:21:51 `run chmod a+x bin/8ball && cp bin/8{,-}ball 10:21:52 No output. 10:21:57 `8ball Did I create the script correctly now? 10:21:58 Outlook not so good 10:22:10 `8-ball Why, what's the error? 10:22:10 My sources say no 10:22:14 hmm 10:24:07 `run mkdir data; mv 8ballreplies data/; sed -i -e 's|8ballreplies|data/8ballreplies|' bin/8ball # let's keep the /hackenv clean and tidy, everybody 10:24:09 mkdir: cannot create directory `data': File exists 10:24:12 Huh. 10:25:28 `ls -dl data 10:25:28 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 10:25:35 `run ls -dl data 10:25:36 drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 5000 4096 Apr 15 10:24 data 10:25:40 Oh, maybe that was some confusing thing it had w.r.t. directories. Anyway, it seems to have worked all right. (Though /hackenv is full of cruft anyhow.) 10:25:57 `8ball this? 10:25:58 Ask again later 10:26:07 `run cp -v bin/8{,-}ball 10:26:08 ​`bin/8ball' -> `bin/8-ball' 10:26:19 `8-ball Is /hackenv full of cruft? 10:26:20 Don't count on it 10:26:27 `ls 10:26:28 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ data \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 10:26:31 `8-ball fungot? 10:26:32 boily: you need to use three .s in a version that uses meroon. oop in lisp is done with lambda? 10:26:32 It is certain 10:27:34 Actually, maybe 'share' would've been the obvious place, WordData is there too. 10:28:34 `run mv data/8ballreplies share/; sed -i -e 's/data/share/' bin/8*ball; rmdir data # going to hit some empty-directory problem again, I'm sure 10:28:35 No output. 10:28:43 We should upload buubot's old fortune files collection to HackEgo and add some command to interface it. I think I have a copy of those files at home. 10:29:44 `run ls share 10:29:44 8ballreplies \ awesome \ cat \ construct_grams.pl \ delvs-master \ esolangs.txt \ esolangs.txt.sorted \ hello \ hello.c \ lua \ maze \ maze.c \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ units.dat \ WordData 10:30:00 -!- yorick has joined. 10:39:17 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:53:58 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:54:26 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:57:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:05:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:08:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PREDICTIVE CHICKEN). 11:08:30 i didn't predict that. 11:12:45 You're no chicken. 11:13:44 now you are making assumptions. 11:14:08 i suppose that picture from yesterday is evidence. 11:17:13 It could have been a convincing FLESH SUIT. 11:22:25 "During the evaluation, you should not use any buttons of your browser, such as "Back" and "Refresh"." 11:22:29 That's kind of harsh 11:24:00 possibly that only applies to the current tab. 11:25:23 fizzie: like http://www.xkcd.com/629/ ? 11:29:33 fursure 11:36:35 ouch 11:39:09 `cat share/8ballreplies 11:39:10 It is certain \ It is decidedly so \ Without a doubt \ Yes definitely \ You may rely on it \ As I see it, yes \ Most likely \ Outlook good \ Yes \ Signs point to yes \ Reply hazy try again \ Ask again later \ Better not tell you now \ Cannot predict now \ Concantrate and ask again \ Don't count on it \ My reply is no \ My sources say no \ Outlook n 11:39:19 is that Concantrate intentional 11:39:46 `grep 42 share/8ballreplies 11:40:15 no "no output"? 11:40:17 No output. 11:40:20 ah 11:40:53 b_jonas: i'll be correcting that if you don't say it's intentional hth 11:41:33 `` echo 42 >> share/8ballreplies 11:41:34 No output. 11:41:39 oerjan: um... 11:41:51 oerjan: the 8ball mechanicm has a physical d20 in it 11:41:56 it can't handle more than 20 lines 11:42:01 oh. 11:42:06 `wc share/8ballreplies 11:42:07 ​ 21 69 342 share/8ballreplies 11:42:08 b_jonas: i wasn't speaking about the 42. 11:42:16 um 11:42:29 ah, Concantrate? let me check a source 11:43:18 `run sed -i '21,$d' share/8ballreplies #More fun than `revert 11:43:20 No output. 11:44:00 also do you mind if i add periods. 11:44:06 yes, Concantrate is definitely a typo 11:44:15 More fun than a bucket of balls. 11:44:16 I think we sohuld import the whole reply set again from a reliable source then 11:44:30 hm ok 11:44:40 b_jonas: Ah, you must mean the ISO standard of magic 8-ball replies. 11:44:58 fizzie: from the POSIX-2014 utility? 11:45:08 there ISO lways a standard 11:45:23 fizzie: no, I think we follow that spec only if the POSIXLY_CORRECT environment variable is set, otherwise we use the more traditional replies 11:45:35 groan 11:46:13 `run sed -i 's/Concantrate/Concentrate/;s/$/./' share/8ballreplies 11:46:14 No output. 11:46:19 `8ball 11:46:20 You may rely on it. 11:46:33 `run wc -c share/8ballreplies 11:46:33 359 share/8ballreplies 11:46:39 um 11:46:48 `run : "I meant"; wc -l share/8ballreplies 11:46:49 20 share/8ballreplies 11:46:56 Things that are more fun: http://sprunge.us/jEBP 11:47:36 `rub grep -i defi share/8ballr* 11:47:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rub: not found 11:47:40 `run grep -i defi share/8ballr* 11:47:40 Yes definitely. 11:48:07 `url share/8ballreplies 11:48:08 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/share/8ballreplies 11:49:56 argh, hm 11:51:35 * oerjan curses the lack of text mime type 11:51:57 `url bin/8ball 11:51:57 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/8ball 11:52:06 Has there been a text MIME type before? 11:52:39 i don't know. it is possible that IE has decided to be unreasonable about files without a suffix. 11:53:10 The server does say application/binary now, I was just wondering if it was different. 11:53:22 *sigh* 11:53:38 I assume it's set by the hgweb script, though, and nothing I configurarated. 11:53:42 well i'm pretty sure i used to be able to view programs in bin/ 11:53:58 maybe it depends on the filename or some query parameter in the url? 11:54:14 b_jonas: it _used_ to work for those files, then it stopped. 11:54:33 i recall paste/ files breaking 11:54:45 and having to rename them to .txt to see them 11:55:11 `run find -name '.htaccess' 11:55:13 No output. 11:55:30 can we configure the web face from here? 11:55:30 b_jonas: that's _not_ inside /hackenv hth 11:55:46 pity 11:55:55 I can mess with it, however. 11:56:05 fizzie "can". whether Gregor would like it is another matter. 11:56:27 but seeing as he's hardly even around... 11:56:28 Well, he had me re-set it up when I was adding esolangs.org; they're served by the same web server. 11:56:36 oh 11:56:47 well this thing broke long before that. 11:57:16 possibly when HackEgo itself moved, or even before. 11:58:02 It's sent as Content-Type: application/binary combined with Content-Disposition: inline; filename="8ball" which I think is kind of ambiguous. 11:58:29 The "inline" disposition suggests automatic displayifying, but application/binary suggests it's not suitable for eyes. 11:58:35 well, the .htaccess configuration file should be accessible from here so that when we create files we can tell their types to the webserver and stuff 11:58:58 They're not served raw, there's a mercurial repository browser in the way. 11:59:03 A .htaccess file would have no effect. 11:59:29 well IE certainly insists on treating it as needing an application. 11:59:42 some config files for that then 12:02:00 Internet suggests hgweb should use the python mimetypes module and base the choice on extension, but even a .txt file comes out as application/binary. 12:02:31 it was 6 weeks ago that i had to that ridiculous paste renaming 12:02:44 *to do 12:03:01 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/log?rev=.txt 12:04:43 which was likely the first time i tried viewing pastes after HackEgo moved. 12:07:24 I guess Gregor moved the repository browser too at that time. 12:09:28 As a workaround, if you don't absolutely need the raw view, quite often dropping "raw-" from the URL -- as in, http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/share/8ballreplies -- might work. 12:09:43 There's a bit of unnecessary fluff, but at least it opens in the window. 12:11:51 yes, although the question is whether to change bin/url to do that. 12:11:57 Apparently there's a config setting of "guessmime". 12:12:34 Seems to have been a security change. 12:12:42 hm 12:12:56 "Before: hgweb made it possible to download file content with a content type detected from the file extension. It would serve .html files as text/html and could thus cause XSS vulnerabilities if the web site had any kind of session authorization and the repository content wasn't fully trusted." 12:13:08 I guess in this case "wasn't fully trusted" sounds like a good description. 12:13:18 `cat bin/url 12:13:18 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ print ("http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/" + \ urllib.quote(sys.argv[1])) 12:14:09 `run cp bin/{,raw-}url; sed -i 's/raw-//' bin/url 12:14:11 No output. 12:14:55 `url bin/url 12:14:56 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 12:15:02 `cat bin/pastewisdom 12:15:02 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 12:15:22 `run find | grep fshg 12:15:24 No output. 12:15:33 wat 12:15:55 Deciding between 'text/plain' and 'application/binary' based on whether the file "looks" binary (the way it does if guessmime is on but mimetypes.guess_type returns None) might presumably have been a reasonably safe thing, too. 12:16:01 oh hm 12:16:06 File names, not content. 12:16:09 `run find | xargs grep fshg 12:16:22 eek 12:16:24 I've done that too. 12:16:41 grep: .: Is a directory \ grep: ./ibin: Is a directory \ grep: ./quines: Is a directory \ grep: ./bin: Is a directory \ ./bin/raw-url: print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ ./bin/raw-url: print ("http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/" + \ ./bin/pastewisdom:echo http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi 12:16:52 Heh, noisy. 12:17:07 `run find -f | wc 12:17:07 find: unknown predicate `-f' \ 0 0 0 12:17:15 "find -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep whatever" is my typical quick-and-dirty look-inside tool. 12:17:15 hm possibly those were all the files, the rest use bin/url 12:17:17 `run find -type f | wc 12:17:20 ​ 12986 13251 743328 12:17:22 stupid me. 12:17:46 `run du -sh . 12:17:49 524M. 12:18:10 `run du -sh / 12:18:22 fizzie: why not just grep -R ? 12:18:28 or perhaps grep -Rh 12:18:28 du: cannot read directory `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/fd': Permission denied \ du: cannot read dir 12:18:36 right. 12:18:43 `run du -sh / 2>/dev/null 12:18:50 1.6G/ 12:19:08 (I have my own crazy grep tool for some reason, but it's not really better.) 12:19:46 is there a channel for spamming hackego by the way? or should I just do it in private message? 12:19:54 b_jonas: that would mean remembering all the options of grep hth 12:20:14 bin/url, bin/raw-url, bin/pastewisdom, quotes, wisdom/fizzie and a number of paste/paste.* are the entire set of files containing "fshg". 12:20:28 oerjan: since I wrote my grep clone, I remember more than half of the optoins 12:20:30 `? fizzie 12:20:31 fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg 12:20:43 at least for gnu grep 12:20:49 It is a shame that comes out as application/binary. :/ 12:21:06 actually IE showed that picture just fine :P 12:21:17 Oh. Heh. Chrome just saved it. 12:21:29 but of course find | xargs grep can be useful too when you want some more complicated filter on the files 12:21:31 it pays some attention to the file extension, i assume. 12:21:41 -!- nucular has joined. 12:21:41 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 12:21:41 -!- nucular has joined. 12:22:38 fizzie: heh, firefox treats it as PDF?! 12:22:57 (but I could Open in Browser As -> Image) 12:23:21 (thanks to the "Open in Browser" addon) 12:23:24 That's the weirdest. 12:23:48 `pastequotes fizzie 12:23:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.12979 12:24:51 there's still a raw link in the sidebar, anyhow 12:25:06 fizzie: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/pdf.png 12:25:31 I have no clue where it got that idea, hmm. 12:25:38 I am puzzled. 12:27:13 Me too. The server does reply with application/binary. And the first couple of bytes look nothing like PDF either. 12:40:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:56:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:59:34 -!- ^v has joined. 13:15:11 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:19:05 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:19:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:43:18 -!- CapitalSigma has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:58:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:06:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:23:27 -!- ggherdov has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:40:12 -!- HaliteTablet has joined. 14:44:52 HaliteTablet: aren't you banned? 14:45:27 huh, I guess not. 14:52:14 -!- shikhin has changed nick to Bender|shikhin. 14:54:08 -!- Bender|shikhin has changed nick to shikhin. 14:54:13 -!- ggherdov has joined. 14:58:22 -!- ^v has joined. 15:00:08 HaliteTablet: ...i didn't know you could put fluff in your NickServ metadata. 15:00:16 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:02:28 -!- password2 has joined. 15:02:56 [wiki] [[Ignition]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39330&oldid=39208 * Luxen * (+1365) update for new commands 15:04:30 nifty 15:04:33 when did we get that 15:04:57 you mean wiki announcements? 15:05:23 [wiki] [[User:Luxen]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39331&oldid=39211 * Luxen * (+63) /* finished products */ 15:05:39 or NickServ metadata? 15:05:47 CHOOSE WISELY 15:07:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: YOU WERE TOO LATE; NOW YOU WILL NEVER KNOW EITHER.). 15:18:27 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 15:18:38 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:29:27 [wiki] [[Aeon]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39332 * Cptx032 * (+4959) init 15:31:08 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39333&oldid=39322 * Cptx032 * (+11) /* A */ 15:33:35 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 15:39:48 -!- Frooxius has joined. 15:47:52 -!- jesyspa has joined. 15:54:42 If you meant the wiki announcements, we got them on 2014-04-06. 16:03:35 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:05:40 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:11:01 Any CLISPer around here? 16:13:05 How does symbol to function coercing work? 16:13:41 is that why (funcall 'id 9) == (funcall #'id 9)? 16:18:20 > foldl1 (const) [1..] 16:18:20 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 16:18:20 No such variable foldl1 16:18:25 mueval: ExitFailure 1 16:19:04 That's one not lazy version of head . 16:19:39 Evaling a list doesn't imply that the elements are evald, right? 16:20:16 nvm. foldl1 (const) [print "a", print "b"] only prints "a" 16:20:45 > foldl1 (printf "(const %s %s)") ["a","b","c","d"] 16:20:45 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 16:20:45 No such variable foldl1 16:20:47 "(const (const (const a b) c) d)" 16:21:25 @run foldl1 (printf "(const %s %s)") $ (:"") <$> ['a'..'z'] 16:21:27 "(const (const (const (const (const (const (const (const (const (const (cons... 16:21:39 @run foldl1 (printf "(const %s %s)") $ (:"") <$> ['a'..'g'] 16:21:41 "(const (const (const (const (const (const a b) c) d) e) f) g)" 16:22:12 mroman: that has nothing to do with evaluation 16:22:21 (print "b") does not print "b" even if you evaluate it 16:22:54 @run [ print x | x <- [0..] ] 16:22:57 [,,,,,,,,, > head . foldl1 (const) $ [[1..], reverse [1..]] 16:23:33 (input):1:23:When elaborating an application of function Control.Category..: 16:23:34 No such variable foldl1 16:23:34 1 16:24:00 ^- according to my definition of eval, the above would run forever if each element where eval'd 16:24:47 Good thing your definition is wrong, then 16:25:08 well... at least we now have established that my definition is indeed wrong :) 16:25:20 I wonder what's in idris's Control.Cat 16:25:42 Probably the same thing, but with actual proofs 16:25:59 So, then... what's the correct terminology? 16:26:02 "execution"? 16:27:03 (obviously it's not trying to reverse an infinite list) 16:27:37 @run foldl1 const [a, b] 16:27:39 Ambiguous occurrence ‘b’ 16:27:39 It could refer to either ‘L.b’, defined at L.hs:155:1 16:27:39 or ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.Vars.b’, 16:27:39 imported from ‘Debug.SimpleReflect’ at L.hs:110:1-26 16:27:39 (and originally defined in ‘simple-reflect-0.3.1:De... 16:27:48 wat 16:27:49 :t b 16:27:51 Ambiguous occurrence ‘b’ 16:27:51 It could refer to either ‘L.b’, 16:27:51 defined at /home/lambda/.lambdabot/State/L.hs:155:1 16:27:54 :t L.b 16:27:55 Num a => a 16:28:03 @run b 16:28:05 Ambiguous occurrence ‘b’ 16:28:05 It could refer to either ‘L.b’, defined at L.hs:155:1 16:28:05 or ‘Debug.SimpleReflect.Vars.b’, 16:28:05 imported from ‘Debug.SimpleReflect’ at L.hs:110:1-26 16:28:05 (and originally defined in ‘simple-reflect-0.3.1:De... 16:28:14 This is ridiculous 16:28:16 @run L.b 16:28:22 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 16:28:42 @run foldl1 const [x, y] 16:28:44 x 16:30:40 the "actual value" of y is never required 16:33:45 whatev 16:33:47 er 16:49:55 -!- HaliteTablet has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 16:57:09 does anyone have an example of the real huge C++ things you get out of Spirit 16:58:25 We get them using xpressive now 17:06:27 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:07:41 -!- password2 has joined. 17:14:59 -!- scoff has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:16:02 -!- scoff has joined. 17:19:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 17:20:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:29:23 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:30:18 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:30:24 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:30:45 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Client Quit). 17:33:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:36:21 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:51:45 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:55:05 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:56:33 -!- MoALTz has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 17:58:22 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:06:03 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:12:45 are there any good puzzle games where the primarrry mechanic is manipulating in turns different characters with different abilities in different positions of the same puzzle map? 18:19:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:22:44 supermegacomics.com is down?! 18:22:49 how long has this been the case 18:24:08 Puzzle games? Well, there is the time I played a wesnoth campaign by reloading over and over 18:24:23 I guess that wasn't very good 18:27:01 hmm. fish fillets has some asymmetry between the two agents 18:30:59 others suggested thomas was along and lost vikings 18:32:59 whoa, lost vikings 18:33:03 i played that game 18:33:35 that certainly satisfies your thing 18:35:39 wow, I did not realize that "The Cave" was an elaborate Lost Vikings clone *g*. 18:36:25 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:40:34 whoa, whoa, whoa 18:40:37 what's this 18:42:21 it's GR8T! 18:44:20 is there a non-steam non-ouya non-apple-app-store way to get it 18:47:30 which? 18:48:04 I played the Steam version of "The Cave" 18:49:15 would rather avoid Steam if possible 18:50:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:50:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:50:51 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:51:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:52:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:52:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:52:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:54:29 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:02:19 I played Lost Vikings too. 19:02:29 It was very. 19:03:26 I played Lost Vikings Two. 19:03:29 I remember the game ... but not vividly 19:05:49 -!- nortti has changed nick to driyoyleujiy. 19:05:56 -!- driyoyleujiy has changed nick to nortti. 19:10:19 There were arrows, and the guy with a shield. 19:10:24 You could stand on the shield. 19:13:41 Scandinavian Airlines is running an ad campaign in SF in conjunction with the Visit {Sweden, Denmark, Finland} organizations, which caused me to notice that while the logos for the first two are based on their countries' respective flags, the logo for Visit Finland is a collection of misshapen circles http://www.visitfinland.com/ 19:15:35 I think I've seen that logo. It reminds me vaguely of the Aalto vases. 19:15:45 (It's not exactly the same shape.) 19:18:49 "Due to the huge volume of travel marketing and the plethora of potential travel destinations for tourists, the Fi 19:18:52 nnish Tourist Board recognized the need for renewing Finland's destination branding -- the need to stand out. Dis 19:18:55 ruptive strategy and design work resulted in countrybranding based on the key idea that in comparison with most o 19:18:58 ther countries, Finland is something else -- totally individual, unconventional and fresh. It is a welcome altern 19:19:01 ative to places crowded with tourists. Finland's country branding breaks the conventions and clichés of travel ma 19:19:04 rketing, represents the true qualities of Finland in an ironic, yet positive way and communicates the attributes 19:19:07 cool, creative, contrasts and credible." 19:19:10 In case you didn't get that from the misshapen circles. 19:19:13 (Also nice line breaks there.) 19:19:24 (They're my own fault.) 19:19:33 they are nice 19:19:43 Good countrybranding 19:19:44 they're disruptive, unconventional, and fresh 19:19:56 They're certainly dis 19:19:57 ruptive. 19:21:10 Today I am very disappointed, because last summer we rented this silly tiny "smart fortwo" mini-car, and drove it to Hanko and back, and it was a very nice trip; but now when I went back to the rental company, they're apparently entirely phasing that thing out at the end of May. 19:21:37 bummer 19:21:47 I mean, I'm sure they were losing money and people weren't renting those things, but they should still keep them because I would like to rent one about once a year. 19:22:32 you should rent a TRAAAAAIN instead 19:22:40 On the other hand, they've started renting out the Tesla Model S, as the first place in Finland. 19:22:46 shiny 19:22:50 where do you charge it? 19:22:51 (Last I heard, Tesla had sold a total of about twelve of them in Finland.) 19:22:56 Nowhere, I'm sure. 19:23:13 At least nowhere outside the Helsinki region, I think there's a couple of charging stations hereabouts. 19:23:25 Not Tesla-specific, so probably not very fast either. 19:24:37 Okay, there's a few here and there -- http://sahkoinenliikenne.fi/latauspisteet/ -- but it's still not a very dense network. 19:24:41 there was an electric car startup in israel that had removable batteries and stations where you could swap them out for a fresh one 19:24:44 but i think they failed 19:24:59 despite israel seeming like the ideal market for something like that 19:25:13 A total of 45 in the whole of Finland, apparently. 19:26:47 The Model S also costs something like 200€/day to rent, while the smart fortwo was around 30€/day. 19:28:41 s/twelve/thirty/ (!) 19:29:10 https://www.humblebundle.com/ 19:29:14 i feel like i've been set up 19:30:11 I didn't know. 19:38:52 "Finngenerator" "Have a try and find your inner Finn by changing your name. Just type your name here and let the generator tell you what you would be called if you were a Finn." 19:39:07 fizzie: the disruptive unconventional marketing reminds me of this classic: http://adage.com/images/random/0209/pepsi-arnell021109.pdf 19:39:10 I typed my very typical Finnish name in, and got something completely different out. 19:39:34 "THE GENERATOR HAS SPOKEN. FROM NOW ON YOU ARE CALLED: Ohto Viljanen" 19:39:37 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:39:59 That is such a silly decree, ohto. 19:41:05 kmc: Was this automatically generated? 19:41:41 Though it does remind me of a graph I saw that I cannot possibly find again. 19:43:22 http://kritiikkiblogi.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/11_juhani_risku_johtaminen_funktio_kaava_johtaa-edesta-ja-esimerkilla_design-muoto-oppi-johtajuus-arkkitehtuuri-muotoilu-taide_leadership_organization.jpg gets pretty close. 19:43:28 (And is a pretty long link.) 19:44:21 (Apparently Steve Jobs had a remarkably high levels of i and [noise].) 19:44:39 (It's the "leadership equation.") 19:47:56 -!- evalj has joined. 19:55:31 I can't find out how much it costs to rent a TRAAAAAIN -- or even just a single train carriage. (They had a couple of styles of those, but no pricing, just "contact us".) 19:55:56 The university had some sort of a train event, I think. 19:55:57 that usually means "too damn much" 19:55:59 oh, old times. "alt-x quite the game" 19:56:01 They also had a ship event. 19:56:30 "When you want to offer your interest groups an unforgettable journey you can charter a whole train. Choose from dozens of car types to put together a conference train, a train for a festive occasion, an exhibition train or an event train; there is enough room for as many as 1500 persons." 19:56:40 "A private train is also the easiest way to go to a competition, a celebration, a conference or other occasion." 19:56:56 -!- Sellyme has quit (Quit: Oh god my bouncer is down help). 19:57:03 "For further information please use our form or call --" 19:57:16 "You can add special-purpose cars to chartered trains in addition to normal day cars." 19:57:26 They don't say too much about what kind of cars. 19:57:55 I guess probably the same conference/saloon/exhibition ones they offer to stick in a normal, non-private train, too. 19:58:12 "Choose from day cars, sleeping-cars or special-purpose cars for business or pleasure." 19:58:17 That last part sounds a bit sleazy. 19:59:12 sounds like something a few of my friends would enjoy 19:59:20 I'm a bit surprised they don't have a sauna car. 19:59:31 There's a number of saunas on wheels in Finland, I know that much. 20:00:28 I guess you generally park them before using them, though. 20:01:06 boring 20:01:15 http://sauna.saunasessions.ca/category/mobile_saunas 20:01:23 -!- Sellyme has joined. 20:01:41 A sauna moped. 20:03:24 I've seen that Skipoli trailer sauna (the first photo in the list) parked around the university. 20:03:56 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39334&oldid=39328 * Zerk * (+186) /* Sugar */ Formalized ''.'' as just another map. 20:06:46 Also https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140415-smart.jpg why would you stop renting something this cute? 20:07:09 I should start a web petition, those always have such an impact. 20:11:10 ok, I can confirm that you may download apk files for those games :) 20:11:58 fizzie: did you see http://jalopnik.com/vandals-are-flipping-over-smart-cars-in-san-francisco-1560004013 20:12:09 I saw, and it made me sad. 20:14:01 oh, wait, the humblebundle thing is android-only 20:14:18 shachaf: right 20:14:30 Oh, I didn't even notice that. 20:14:36 so there's no way to get the game for the relevant platforms other than steam 20:14:39 Weren't the previous "mobile" bundles also desktop compatible? 20:14:50 some 20:14:54 and not all of the games 20:16:14 sigh 20:16:17 oh well, already bought it 20:16:26 . o O ( aren't there android simulators ;) ) 20:27:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:39:35 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 20:57:59 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:49 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 21:06:49 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:10:12 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:18:24 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:19:20 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:20:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:22:48 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:25:25 -!- password2 has joined. 21:28:21 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39335&oldid=39334 * Zerk * (+120) Removed half-baked importing /* Toplevel */ moved signedness handling to an extension. *abuses headers* 21:32:13 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:37:53 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:41:36 -!- password2 has joined. 21:43:27 `coins 21:43:29 morgecoin vitcoin ogdalgafficcoin modescoin falveollbercoin helpcoin hamccoin eoacoin yelcoin piocoin frogcoin lutingbraycoin ilossilandcoin ediumbraidcoin ozpurecoin prolcoin smunivarcoin attrecoin braebirccoin orrelazioncoin 21:44:15 Evaling a list doesn't imply that the elements are evald, right? <-- no, also evaling an IO action like print "b" does not imply that it's actually _executed_. 21:44:34 @tell mroman Evaling a list doesn't imply that the elements are evald, right? <-- no, also evaling an IO action like print "b" does not imply that it's actually _executed_. 21:44:34 Consider it noted. 21:49:51 wat <-- someone presumably @let b = something 21:50:11 and @let doesn't check for name conflicts with other modules. 21:50:23 @let map = 1 21:50:25 Defined. 21:50:32 :t map 21:50:33 Ambiguous occurrence ‘map’ 21:50:33 It could refer to either ‘L.map’, 21:50:33 defined at /home/lambda/.lambdabot/State/L.hs:157:1 21:50:38 @undefine 21:50:38 Undefined. 21:51:11 -!- xpte has joined. 21:51:25 :t b 21:51:26 Expr 21:55:10 ther countries, Finland is something else -- totally individual, unconventional and fresh. It is a welcome altern <-- that's seriously meta-clichéed. 21:55:41 helsinki did not seem un-touristy to me 21:55:47 so much that i wonder if it's ironically meant 21:55:50 what with the pub tram 21:56:01 and the exorbitantly priced restaurants and pubs 21:56:19 kmc: um i am not talking about any resemblance to reality here. 21:56:27 whether true or not. 21:56:28 indeed 21:56:35 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 21:57:18 can you get a design prize by being ironically meta-clichéed, i wonder. 21:57:20 I assume you were just understanding it wrong. 21:57:33 fizzie: who, me? 21:59:06 No, kmc, when they did not see the true qualities. 21:59:14 ah. 22:07:16 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:07:17 -!- boily has joined. 22:07:59 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:10:44 Hmm. Given a positive real vector x_i, how do I find a reasonably small r such that all r*x_i are close to integers? 22:11:39 huh 22:11:46 r=0 lolol 22:12:01 if it were just one coordinate i'd use continued fractions. 22:12:03 That's unreasonably small, sorry 22:12:15 (x_i is the estimated speed of the ith CPU, and r*x_i is the (integer) amount of work to schedule to it) 22:13:46 i guess the r*x_i need to fit in some known datatype? 22:13:49 *+s 22:14:06 Jafet: i take it r is real too? 22:14:15 Yes, r is an arbitrary scaling. 22:14:28 (Which, for practical purposes, should be nonzero) 22:14:40 oh. in that case i'd also use continued fractions for _two_ coordinates :P 22:15:06 but i don't know any theory for more than that. 22:17:14 wouldn't a bit of dynamic adjustment be simpler. 22:18:11 estimate how long until a CPU runs out of work, or thereabouts. 22:18:15 This system only has one synchronization primitive, and it is global 22:18:36 s/only has/has only/ 22:19:38 -!- jjestrel has joined. 22:23:53 s/has only/only only has has only way way pon pon pon only has/ 22:24:05 Hmm, this might be equivalent to the shortest-vector-in-lattice problem 22:24:06 -!- jj2baile has joined. 22:25:26 do I blame coppro? 22:25:49 i was wondering about that. 22:26:06 (our newcomers) 22:26:21 !welcome jjestrel jj2baile 22:26:22 jjestrel: jj2baile: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:26:34 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's only one person based on the prefix 22:26:59 I'm now walking outdoors on top of my limb and it's really painful and awkward. this was a mistake 22:27:12 wat 22:27:45 well, I said I was going to go out on a limb. 22:27:49 is there a fashion of walking that doesn't involve being on top of your limbs 22:27:49 oh limb is not a human organ here 22:28:14 Bicyclidine: let's do the snakey-snake 22:28:34 I'm pretty sure I'm human. 22:28:34 The best form of walking is biking 22:29:14 so which of the two nicks is the bf bot 22:29:19 you know what's a fun thing? reading old science books that assert wrong facts 22:29:41 * boily prods oerjan in the non-human limbs 22:29:42 or current science boks. 22:30:15 ^prefixes 22:30:16 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 22:30:20 boily: sorry i'm all out 22:30:40 kmc: it's harder to tell what's wrong with those, though 22:30:45 #test 22:30:53 $test 22:30:55 whereas with this one it's like "maybe muscle works by folding" or "DNA replication is catalyzed by a single enzyme" 22:31:21 coppro: which one of the jjes is a bot? 22:33:12 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 22:33:34 boily: not telling 22:33:50 elliott: and yes, you blame me 22:34:47 elliott: yes but i don't think "out on a limb" refers to a human limb, in normal circumstances. 22:34:51 Was Bicyclidine something different than Bike? 22:35:09 coppro: meanie. 22:35:19 oerjan: you realise I was making a joke right :P 22:35:36 Bicyclidine is a patented copyrighted trademark hth 22:35:51 elliott: i never! 22:36:34 Bike used to be, back in the 19th century, but has long since expired. 22:37:03 Bicyclidine will never expire. the megacorps will see to that. 22:37:42 argh my throat 22:38:12 see, that's what happens when you mistreat your human organs. 22:38:46 i wasn't mistreating it, it started coughing all by itself 22:39:03 1-(1-bicyclohexyl)piperidine) isn't allowed as an irc name, and also isn't good nomenclature anyway 22:40:09 -!- oerjan has changed nick to a-123. 22:40:24 -!- a-123 has changed nick to oerjan. 22:40:47 apparently you cannot have just numbers. 22:41:37 -!- boily has changed nick to `. 22:42:00 -!- ` has changed nick to boily. 22:42:26 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:43:20 you also can't start with numbers 22:45:13 probably can't use parens either 22:46:36 old information theory also great "Information is thus conveniently measured in the probability units called bits" 22:53:01 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:00:10 -!- coppro has changed nick to jjcoppro. 23:07:41 Oh, elliott: I am in fact not jjestrel 23:07:54 I'm surprised 23:07:55 also, !welcome makes me think of "not welcome" ;P 23:08:10 -!- jesyspa has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:08:41 curses! 23:08:41 jj2baile, how's this 23:08:43 `relcome 23:08:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: relcome: not found 23:08:48 did 23:08:53 did someone delete relcome 23:09:01 Phantom_Hoover is really not paying attention lately. 23:09:04 elliott deleted them all with extreme prejudice. 23:09:13 elliott 23:09:14 i... 23:09:41 why don't i have popcorn for this. 23:09:47 `WeLcOmE 23:09:48 ​/hackenv/bin/WeLcOmE: 2: /hackenv/bin/WeLcOmE: welcome: not found 23:10:14 Phantom_Hoover: they were annoying and only (over)used to make people feel unwelcome :/ 23:10:21 ehm, so that is still there, but broken because the plain welcome is gone 23:10:55 there should just be one for people who have already demonstrated they're here for the wrong kind of esoterica (in fact I think there already is?) and we can just, you know, say hi to the rest 23:11:34 elliott: well that's what plain `welcome was. 23:12:02 olsner: his deletion may not have been case insensitive. 23:12:05 oerjan: it's the least evil of them, yeah. 23:12:26 rainbows aren't evil! 23:12:57 I mean I won't bother deleting them again if someone really cares enough to readd them... 23:14:17 running the 'wrong esoteric mate' one through rainbow is, i feel, an acceptable compromise 23:14:41 wait what. 23:16:02 :t mapped 23:16:03 (Settable f1, Functor f) => (a -> f1 b) -> f a -> f1 (f b) 23:16:16 mapped is a traversal, right? 23:16:52 no, a setter 23:17:12 Ah 23:17:41 basically a Functor is a setter is a Functor 23:18:41 :t traversed 23:18:42 (Indexable Int p, Traversable f, Applicative f1) => p a (f1 b) -> f a -> f1 (f b) 23:18:55 while a Traversable is a traversal is a Traversable 23:18:58 :t folded 23:19:00 (Contravariant f1, Indexable Int p, Foldable f, Applicative f1) => p a (f1 a) -> f a -> f1 (f a) 23:19:15 and a Foldable is a fold. 23:23:08 woah and then suddenly #esoteric looked like #haskell 23:23:20 I momentarily thought my irssi was just glitching 23:23:22 that happens about half the time 23:23:29 Excellent, I approve. 23:23:40 we also have an idris bot 23:23:59 and a uh, whatever applybot does. some math bullshit. ain't got time for dat 23:24:12 -!- cdchawthorne has joined. 23:24:41 applybot: help 23:24:42 Meta-commands: colour context help info load* restart shutdown* state timeout* undo unicode unload* \ Isabelle commands: apply by declare defer definition done find_theorems fun function lemma oops prefer primrec quickcheck term termination thm try0 typ unfolding using value 23:24:48 Oh that did something. 23:25:15 Ah, so isabelle 23:25:35 Bicyclidine: *+nobody 23:25:49 oerjan: what? 23:26:16 ain't nobody got time for leaving off the nobody 23:26:28 actually i was pro dropping 23:26:32 [i] ain't got time for that 23:26:32 cdchawthorne: okay explain yourselves. 23:26:44 what's pro dropping 23:27:02 elliott: This channel was casually mentioned in our home channel 23:27:06 i guess a few people were curious 23:27:07 pronoun dropping http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-drop_language 23:27:44 it's all about the drop 23:27:46 jj2baile: as long as we don't have to ban dbelange again 23:27:54 bitchezzzzz 23:27:55 elliott: Oh god 23:28:02 I should have known as much 23:28:09 hah 23:28:14 Well, feel free to ban dbelange as much as you want :p 23:28:14 who was deblagne again? the puzzle person? 23:28:28 Bicyclidine: no, somebody terrible from coppro's university :p 23:28:35 That's of no concern to me, just don't like ban the subnet or something 23:28:45 can we just ban canada...? 23:28:53 I mean, we wouldn't be missing much, right. 23:28:58 eille! 23:29:02 (that's happened to me before in #physics, I joined, was assumed to be dbelange, and *csclub was banned) 23:29:07 i'm kind of disappointed that the hostname from my school doesn't tell you what computer i'm on 23:29:10 wait a second... 23:29:33 Bicyclidine: è bellissima 23:29:59 -!- Fixie__ has joined. 23:30:13 hm nope, it's all fucked :( 23:30:19 i swear it used to tell you the exact computer i was on 23:30:24 oh "partially pr-drop" 23:30:24 i swear i had dbelange's name stuck in my head a while ago for some reason 23:30:26 what'd he do here 23:30:27 -!- Fixie__ has quit (Client Quit). 23:31:14 I'd `pastelogs but I guess `pastelogs no longer works 23:31:25 why? 23:31:53 `? Phantom_Hoover 23:31:55 Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman and hatheist. 23:32:49 `run echo >wisdom/phantom_hoover 'Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.' 23:32:51 No output. 23:32:59 http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/04/14/true-story-coders-childhood-noob-professors/ 23:33:13 there must be a malcolm tucker joke in this 23:33:35 you know i think the freenode channel name guidelines are only actually there to sow discord and strife 23:33:44 Phantom_Hoover: Gregor moved HackEgo to a different server from where the logs are. on the plus side the wiki is now also there, so we get the announcements. 23:33:59 ah 23:34:27 Phantom_Hoover: ♪ding♪ you are enlooped! 23:35:08 *+o 23:35:50 enloooped? 23:36:12 Hooover 23:36:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Phantoom_Hoover. 23:38:06 i should do more far-too-late corrections if this is the usual kind of result 23:48:23 http://www.commitstrip.com/en/2014/02/18/side-project-cycles/ 23:59:02 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-04-16: 00:05:17 -!- Phantoom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:32:57 * Taneb -> bed 00:38:57 -!- tromp has joined. 00:51:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ORTHONORMAL CHICKEN). 00:56:11 [wiki] [[Ax]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39336&oldid=39313 * Oerjan * (+1) Let's compromise on the spelling 00:58:52 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:01:22 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39337&oldid=39318 * Oerjan * (+13) I think a TOC is appropriate for this article even with just 3 sections 01:01:30 Axthetic 01:03:42 also: what the hell is Ax 01:06:00 [wiki] [[Keya]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39338&oldid=39321 * Oerjan * (+15) wikitable and some rephrasing for grammar/consistency 01:06:16 i dunno it was just added 01:06:29 i don't understand that article 01:07:20 -!- cdchawthorne has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:07:35 i didn't particularly try to read it 01:07:41 okay 01:07:43 don't 01:19:37 [wiki] [[SSBPL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39339&oldid=31003 * Oerjan * (+48) wikitable, add spaces to avoid accidental table markup, consistent capitalization 01:21:14 I hope my defense of lens in concatenative was adequate/sane 01:21:34 http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/concatenative/14.04.15 01:21:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:23:06 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39340&oldid=39333 * Oerjan * (+67) Add [[User:EzoLang]]'s list of languages 01:23:28 don't argue with evincar 01:29:55 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:30:30 -!- tromp has joined. 01:34:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:42:48 -!- jjcoppro has changed nick to coppro. 01:54:17 -!- tertu has joined. 02:07:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 02:28:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:33:34 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 02:33:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:36:21 -!- LucienG has joined. 02:36:23 p/ 02:36:33 (lpghatguy) 02:36:46 Okay 02:39:06 Hmm, the numbers here seem wrong http://primes.utm.edu/mersenne/LukeMirror/lit/lit_039s.htm 02:40:40 (Table 1 supposedly shows the values of (3^(2^(2^n-1)) mod (2^(2^n)+1)) mod 2^36, 2^36-1, 2^35-1 for several n.) 02:48:30 Sup LucienG 03:04:32 `coins 03:04:34 audacoin easyendocoin sardinalcoin bacacoin soundedintercoin gooilcoin crtlasscoin codentaurehecoin iotcoin addlecocoin forceiccoin factcoin datedcoin paracoin ringthesquecoin ungecoin heitkeecoin daturncoin varocoin comcoin 03:09:54 -!- JesseH2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:20:29 -!- LucienG has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:50:11 https://www.mashape.com/nsure-io/porn-filter#!endpoint-porn this is the best startup ever 04:05:58 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:07:11 -!- tromp has joined. 04:18:56 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39341&oldid=39335 * Zerk * (+391) Ints should not pattern-match as vectors. (So *that*'s why I had it that way initially!) 04:51:51 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/234iem/bitundo_allowing_you_to_undo_bitcoin_transactions/ 04:58:21 Nice 05:04:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 05:05:16 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:43:46 so some people are signing up to a mining pool with the purpose of destroying transactions? 05:46:32 damn right 05:47:08 i guess btc has hit the big time 05:57:40 -!- password2 has joined. 06:02:08 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:02:41 -!- tromp has joined. 06:02:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 06:02:57 Is monad-peel obsolete? 06:03:03 I should learn how those sorts of things work 06:05:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:07:12 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:49:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: No route to host). 06:50:18 -!- AndroidKitKat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:51:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:06:07 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:29:30 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:47:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:09:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:20:15 hi Taneb 08:24:35 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:24:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:27:55 Hi shachaf 08:28:58 i was just looking through old files and i found this line: "Oh, well *all* know that; / But it's undeniable Tom has the better hat." 08:29:02 good times 08:41:05 Indeed/ 08:41:11 Anyway, I have a movie to see 08:41:13 Bye! 09:05:06 -!- tromp has joined. 09:10:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:21:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:40:09 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:40:25 -!- newsham has joined. 09:40:40 do you have an implementation for maintaining some kind of balanced search tree in a database using triggers, where the search tree lets you search among rows of a particular table according to a key column? 09:41:47 Is this the setup of a "database in your database" joke? 09:43:24 fizzie: sort of... but not quite 09:44:41 database in database is different, that'd be when you store the raw representation of database not in a few files on the filesystem but instead in a few blobs in another database. 09:45:22 if there's an implementation of such a search tree already, I'd like to look at it 09:45:51 if there isn't, then I'll think of whether it's possible to implement it, probably using a treap, and maybe even try an implementation 09:47:27 If it is made out of relations, are you allowed to call it a family tree? 09:47:45 I tried to figure out an X-in-your-X format thing referring to putting a handcrafted index into a database system (presumably) supporting indices, but couldn't. 09:48:26 fizzie: the database would have to support some form of indexes for this to work in first place, 09:48:50 but this way you could implement more powerful indexes and indexed queries than what the database supports 09:49:01 (also much slower). 09:49:21 It sounds the kind of thing you'd find zzo38 doing in SQLite. 09:50:00 fizzie: I should ask zzo38 then? ok 09:58:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:01:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:16:38 -!- yorick has joined. 10:17:27 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:37 -!- metasepia has joined. 10:52:16 -!- shikhout has joined. 10:55:14 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:55:14 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 10:58:50 -!- nucular has joined. 10:58:50 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 10:58:50 -!- nucular has joined. 11:00:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: METHYLATED CHICKEN). 11:00:58 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:01:32 mona 250b intro for Atari 8-bit http://youtu.be/0NHaFS9YJBE 11:35:18 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/234iem/bitundo_allowing_you_to_undo_bitcoin_transactions/cgtoivc bitcoiners ignorant of game theory, tragedy of commons; news at 11 11:41:49 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:45:15 now that I've heared of cobol PICTURE codes, I wonder if our galactic sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha was named of one 11:46:58 -!- conehead has joined. 12:11:13 so i went to a prof today asking for a bachelor thesis i could make 12:11:27 mentioned i like esoteric languages 12:11:45 i could make a compiler as a thesis project 12:12:46 what language could i choose? also: would my own language (wolfgang) be possible without that much work? 12:13:37 bffc could use some optimizations 12:14:01 come on, be serious 12:17:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:02:33 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:30:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:40:38 what is bffc 13:41:55 wolfgang looks immineNtly compilable 13:43:32 why the fuck was the 'previously closed tabs' thing removed from chrome 13:43:36 it was so useful 13:44:52 ah that's why i've been unable to undo tab closure hmm 13:45:04 yeah i agree chrome just isn't as awesome as it used to be 13:57:49 * oerjan thinks Phantom_Hoover could possibly approve of today's xkcd. 13:58:03 it's true 13:58:23 although ksp isn't that representative of real-world orbital mechanics 14:01:31 Phantom_Hoover: it's in history now I think 14:02:02 i don't see anything there... 14:02:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:02:18 ah, it's under The Menu now 14:03:36 i still can't get over them wasting half the new tab page on a completely redundant google search box 14:03:53 i swear they used to be good at ui design 14:06:08 -!- password2 has joined. 14:06:44 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:07:31 -!- password2 has joined. 14:16:37 "Right, but miners wouldn't want transaction reversal to become a problem for the network because it would destroy the value of Bitcoin (and thus their ASICs)." amazing 14:17:06 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:18:30 http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.5164 this has a certain charm :3 14:18:53 plus it's even by a hungarian 14:54:39 [wiki] [[Talk:Eodermdrome]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39342&oldid=35357 * GreyKnight * (+399) /* multiple matches */ new section 14:55:41 uh oh 14:55:46 looks like someone is trying to implement eodermdrome. 14:57:50 scary stuff 14:58:36 [wiki] [[Talk:Eodermdrome]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39343&oldid=39342 * Phantom Hoover * (+177) /* multiple matches */ 15:02:24 oerjan: suggest a language i could write a compiler for, which is not awfully hard! 15:02:44 well now that eodermdrome is taken... 15:03:31 :D 15:03:44 we don't know he's making a compiler! 15:03:57 true 15:04:07 (in fact i haven't even looked at the page) 15:04:39 eodermdrome looks pretty hard at first sight. that may be because i didn't fully understand it 15:05:07 it's a timey-wimey graph of ...stuff. 15:05:12 or was that feather. 15:06:06 i don't think that claiming i will write a feather compiler does not work as bachelor thesis 15:12:19 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:25:10 myname, eodermdrome's main problem, afaiu, is efficiently implementing the subgraph match algorithm 15:25:23 myname: if you invent time travel and all you get for it is a bachelor thesis then you've done something wrong ;) 15:25:31 Phantom_Hoover: true 15:25:47 int-e: i'd rather implement twoducks, then 15:26:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 15:43:05 how long has bf been the featured language now? it seems like ages 15:43:10 i wish it changed monthly 15:48:59 -!- ^v has joined. 15:54:07 You can make it change by making sure there is a good article about a language, and then suggesting it as featured. 15:54:14 Or that's my understanding, anyway. 15:56:47 -!- JesseH has joined. 15:58:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:05:06 -!- password2 has joined. 16:11:33 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:39:22 -!- xpte has joined. 16:42:04 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:43:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:46:18 -!- Sprockle1 has joined. 16:47:15 -!- JesseH has joined. 16:50:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:24 int-e: i'd rather implement twoducks, then 16:50:33 you could totally implement twoducks by backtracking 16:51:27 how do i make that programm that prints the sum of two numbers before it asks for them 16:52:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:54:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:54:57 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:56:10 -!- nucular has changed nick to nuculaway. 16:58:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: freenode). 16:58:11 -!- Sprockle1 has quit (Quit: freenode). 16:58:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:58:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 16:58:57 -!- Guest72113 has joined. 16:58:57 -!- Guest72113 has quit (Changing host). 16:58:57 -!- Guest72113 has joined. 16:59:40 -!- Guest72113 has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:38 printf("4\nPlease enter 2 and 2:\n"); 17:07:55 yeah, no 17:10:18 if you're doing it as a thesis, shouldn't it be awfully hard 17:10:44 not for a bachelor 17:20:45 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 17:21:25 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 17:22:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:28:08 -!- nuculaway has changed nick to nucular. 17:28:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:29:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:35:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:06:52 myname: have it print a random number. then, ask for input. if the numbers don't add up to the output number, destroy the universe. if the multiverse theory is true, anyone who observes the functioning of your program (which correspond to those living in universes that picked the right numbers) will see that it functions correctly. 18:07:20 interesting idea 18:07:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:07:36 (It is probably mroally required here to remind users that entering values which do not sum to the printed value will result in their immediate nonexistence. This will have the beneficial side effect of increasing the number of universes in which the program succeeds.) 18:08:20 but more people will questioning if it really works 18:09:13 well, they are more than welcome to test it if they don't mind having the blood of who knows how many entire species on their hands! 18:09:52 which may result in even less universes in which the program succeeds 18:10:01 it's going to be awkward if your prng isn't actually based on wavefunction collapse to any great extent and you destroy everything 18:10:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:10:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 18:10:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:10:43 yes it is critical that you use a real RNG. sample the CMBR or something 18:13:32 that collapses a wavefunction? 18:15:47 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:18:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:28:56 -!- augur has joined. 18:29:31 the idea of waveform collapse is kind of antithetical to many-worlds 18:30:02 anything that differentiates one universe from another will do 18:31:37 I thought the idea was that wavefunction collapse was actually the observer wavefunction being entangled (entrained?) with the observed wavefunction, so that probability amplitudes outside a particular basis are no longer observed 18:31:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:27 yeah that's pretty much it. but that's not really a "collapse" of the wavefunction. More of a refactoring. 18:32:38 i just mean something that looks like a collapse. 18:32:44 ah 18:32:54 there't nothing terribly quantum if i get a RNG by sampling microweather or whatever 18:34:02 Well technically there is 18:34:10 Since all matter is quantum 18:34:14 yes, yes 18:34:14 the CMBR reflects the interactions of the matter of the universe at the timescale of yoctoseconds after the big bang or something like that. it should have plenty of distinguishing power between universes 18:34:25 Whaaat 18:34:29 Isn't that too far back though 18:34:36 The CMB is from like 300.000 years after the big bang 18:34:41 I mean you want to keep universes that are mostly like this one 18:34:55 Slereah_: oh. damn. may not be useful then. 18:35:01 If the only remaining universes after your twoducks program are ones where triple alpha never happened to happen or something you'd have a problem! 18:35:05 well, you wouldn't, since you wouldn't exist 18:35:33 Two Duck probably wouldn't work with a physical implementation 18:35:40 it's pretty sad to know if anyone who actually knew quantum physics was here they'd be shuddering at me 18:35:43 Bike: well, what your observation of the CMBR would really differentiate between is microweather state like you said, but also the time at which you chose to make the observation. 18:35:44 But that depends on how you implement time travel 18:35:50 I know QM! 18:36:45 The best thing about time travel is that it makes general relativity non-deterministic technically 18:36:47 Slereah_: suggest a random number mechanism that would distinguish between similar universes 18:37:40 I don't know that much about MWI 18:37:45 quintopia: https://photonics.anu.edu.au/qoptics/Research/qrng.php 18:37:48 But since it is deterministic, I guess none 18:38:22 ...good point. 18:38:30 "Suggest a RNG that would make it look like we're distinguishing between similar universes to an entangled observer" 18:38:45 actually, that kind of fucks up the whole 'destroy the universe' joke, doesn't it, since you don't really have multiple universes per se 18:39:09 well better to make it physically accurate than funny :) 18:39:15 a thing to remember is that quantum interpretations are not actually physics 18:39:19 They are metaphysics 18:39:26 http://qrng.anu.edu.au/ i like how there's actually several of these 18:39:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Starting tmux). 18:39:51 Also "random" can also depend on metaphysical points 18:40:28 i tried reading everett's thesis once but it turns out ui don't know any physics 18:40:41 random is not the important thing. the important thing is that it be something that is different in universes where different people are likely to pick different numbers. 18:41:10 not the same across all universes that contain people 18:41:11 Well between two different universe there will be at least one quantum measurement differing 18:41:12 I think 18:41:39 wait so is mwi based on there being "actual" multiple universes or not. 18:41:47 Define "actual" 18:41:56 there is not "one" monolithic mwi 18:42:37 The point is that quantum theory, due to various experiments, has found out that the theory cannot be, at the same time, local, deterministic and unique 18:42:46 i'm trying to base my understanding on everett since it seems unlikely he said something dumb, unlike "what the bleep do we know" and suchlike 18:43:39 ie it can't respect relativity in every aspect (not allowing instantaneous action at a distance), have the same results for the same events and be in one universe 18:43:49 i guess it's like, is mwi is based on there being one universal wavefunction, and what we observe as wavefunction collapse is locking ourselves (as subfunctions) into a particular basis wrt the observed 18:43:53 Copenhagen isn't deterministic, Bohm isn't local and MWI isn't unique 18:44:01 And there's a bunch of others that break one of these 18:44:06 but all the "other universes" are just parts of the wavefunction in different bases 19:07:06 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 19:07:13 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:07:25 -!- password2 has joined. 19:13:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:15:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:16:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:16:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:16:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:24:16 wow, this channel has discussions on strange topics 19:25:12 Hell I could talk about time travel physics for hours <3 19:25:47 I should try implementing an interpreter for a twoduck-like someday 19:25:56 Like a quantum computer that allows closed timelike curves 19:25:58 few things are more esoteric than quantum mechanics 19:26:11 But damn it's not gonna be easy 19:26:28 myname: BSc thesis in what science? and you want a compiler from or to an esoteric language? 19:26:47 I guess you'd basically have to run the program over his entire timeline 19:26:48 Hm 19:27:00 Maybe there's a way to do it for all programs, but like 19:27:13 Doing it for a machines where the halting problem is decidable 19:27:24 Like a Two Duck automaton 19:27:48 b_jonas: computer science 19:28:02 b_jonas: from would be more useful, i assue 19:28:05 * 19:28:06 *m 19:28:19 I see 19:29:23 I remember someone wrote a compiler for K (the APL-like language) as his PhD thesis. That's of course impossible, because you can write stuff in K that's so dynamic that there's no chance to determine anything in advance, 19:29:38 K is a pun on J? 19:29:55 K? 19:30:02 but he wrote a compiler that tries to figure out as much as possible about the data types and other invariants, and compile what it could. 19:30:26 myname: probably. or maybe APLers just like brevity and so they choose single-letter names 19:30:33 What is K 19:30:34 b_jonas: i am aiming a bit lower than that 19:30:43 Slereah_: it's a semi-successful APL-like language of whose derivative Q is used in business 19:30:49 I'm not sure which of K or Q this guy compiled 19:31:06 i neither knew K nor Q but J 19:31:22 What about C 19:31:24 Slereah_: it's an APL-like that tries to be efficient so it like doesn't check overflow and doesn't upgrade values to larger types when they overflow, etc 19:31:50 Then why use an APL like and not C 19:31:50 has lambdas, has a smaller set of primitives than C, fewer higher order functions, 19:31:54 s/C/J/ sorry 19:32:02 and stuff 19:32:30 So anyway 19:32:32 Thinking 'bout it 19:32:43 I think doing a two-duck like should be doable to implement 19:32:47 For a machine that always halts 19:32:51 also it semantically has only rank 1 inhomogenous array, though homogenous and higher rank arrays are stored in an optimized fashion. 19:33:06 Using the Novikov principle, to avoid weird time travel stuff 19:33:17 You calculate the entire program in advance 19:33:30 And then output each time slice sequentially 19:34:21 Slereah_: that still won't do with IO 19:34:45 Well you don't need IO 19:34:48 Or just use output 19:34:53 http://www.theallium.com/science-life/scientists-reportedly-close-to-finding-a-use-for-linkedin/ 19:35:00 what's two-duck? 19:35:03 what fun is that 19:35:19 Well I don't think I can write an interpreter to communicate with the past unfortunately 19:35:27 b_jonas: http://esolangs.org/wiki/TwoDucks 19:35:28 Two-Duck is a time travel based esoland 19:35:36 If you get the pun congrats 19:35:53 i don't 19:36:25 It is 19:36:29 TIME PAIR OF DUCKS 19:36:34 what 19:37:04 that sounds invader zimish 19:37:19 (paradox) 19:38:23 I See 19:39:37 With a quantum computer kind of thing it should be mostly paradox free 19:40:17 no way. two duck is much more powerful than a quantum computer. 19:40:44 Well that's because it allows timeline alterations 19:41:06 duh 19:41:07 But if you go the David Deutsch way, it only allows for consistent timelines 19:41:17 without tiem travel it would be just an ordinary language 19:41:29 And the quantum states sent along closed timelike curves become mixed 19:46:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:00:41 perhaps bonghits will fix my time paradox 20:01:50 kmc : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVL1crIccRI 20:02:38 so, no specific language idea for me? 20:03:26 What are you looking for 20:03:57 something to write a compiler for with a fair amount of work 20:04:45 Well I'm just gonna pimp my own language I guess : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp 20:04:46 :D 20:04:57 And I was too lazy to implement that one 20:05:39 i thought about my own language as well, but i am quite unsure how hard it would be 20:06:29 Also define "a fair amount of work" 20:06:54 well, i want to make it a bachelor thesis 20:08:22 Any particular preference? 20:08:32 Like functional or procedural or whatevs 20:09:02 i do think procedural are a lot easier to compile (at least if i want to compile to c or assembly) 20:09:12 It tends to be yeah 20:09:25 Cellular automatons also aren't too hard 20:09:44 like which language? 20:09:58 Game of life 20:10:07 The electronic-based one, I forget which 20:10:13 The rule 110 automaton! 20:10:21 electronic-based? you mean von neumann's? 20:10:23 The ant-based one 20:10:25 Maybe? 20:10:31 conway's 20:10:33 wireworld 20:10:38 Yeah, wireworld 20:10:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VonNeumann_CA_demo.gif 20:10:41 Pulsin' 20:11:18 bullying automatons are fun, too 20:11:21 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:12:21 Bullying isn't cool myname 20:12:24 but they may be really hard to compile 20:13:09 Slereah_: i don't get what's special about limp 20:13:15 except its name 20:13:17 Nothing 20:13:21 But it is miiiine~ 20:13:34 it looks funny 20:13:35 Basically I just mashed a lot of the functional languages together 20:13:58 Also a lot of the greek letter based one 20:14:00 Hence the name 20:18:18 What about pi calculus? 20:18:19 Like 20:18:25 Implement it with actual parallelism 20:18:31 That might be hard 20:18:51 The ant-based one 20:18:55 langton's ant? 20:19:07 yep 20:19:24 Like make a pi calculus language for some quadcore processor 20:19:48 what the heck is pi calculus? 20:20:05 Pi calculus is the abstraction of parallel computing 20:21:18 imo digamma calculus 20:44:49 i read (part of) djb's paper "Understanding brute force" last night 20:45:20 it's about how a parallel computer can do brute force key search at a much better price:performance ratio than a serial computer 20:45:30 and complaining that cryptographers often ignore this fact 20:46:05 this is true even in a theoretical model which lacks some of the engineering factors that make parallel computers better in the real world 20:47:01 I think a lot of it comes down to, if you have a huge amount of memory then you should have a proportional amount of cores, otherwise you are not using the memory very efficiently 20:47:45 Memory is dirth cheap today though 20:47:50 Disproportionately to CPUs 20:48:45 it is also slow 20:49:01 Also shitty BUSs 20:49:21 Hey do you remember that episode of the Magic School Bus on computers? 20:49:21 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:49:26 The bus was driving on the BUS! 20:49:27 no 20:49:58 Slereah_: general purpose CPU cores are complicated and expensive, but a circuit that just does AES and talks to some local memory is tiny and you can fabricate a lot of them on a single wafer 20:50:09 and in this machine they're only connected to their neighbors 20:50:10 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone). 20:50:17 and the interconnect doesn't need to be super fast 20:50:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:50:51 imagine if you had one small cpu per 64k (or so) of your 4-8GB ram, that's ~half a shitload of cpus 20:51:06 bet it could play crysis though 20:51:09 if you're in the realm where a brute force attack on AES is remotely plausible then you're talking about spending billions of dollars on fully custom hardware 20:52:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:52:52 that reminds me, anybody got any good examples for this http://mnxmnkmnd.tumblr.com/post/82876163079/dead-theories 20:52:59 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 20:55:36 "one small cpu" that's starting to sound like the GA144. 20:56:22 Maybe it doesn't have quite that many CPUs, and they're p. small. 20:57:17 ooh, is this a flow computer 20:58:17 Bike : Platonic physics! 20:58:21 It is way wrong 20:58:29 But that was the pre-experimental era of physics 20:58:29 i don't know any. 20:58:35 i know some about aristotle's. 20:58:43 Oh yeah, Aristotle 20:58:57 with the whole, what was it, things keep moving because of wind 20:59:01 I can't think of too many theories that are way wrong? 20:59:01 "Oh yeah, Aristotle" makes it sound like you knew him personally. 20:59:15 I mean there's some charmingly old timey ones 20:59:19 Like ring-shaped electrons 20:59:40 and yeah, i was trying to exclude classical science, because it's mostly just old guys making things up 20:59:53 as opposed to real science, which is old guys making stuff up but having to convince other old guys of it for money 20:59:56 why is he called "Aristotle" in english when his name was Ἀριστοτέλης? 20:59:58 aristotle aristotle was a bugger for the bottle 21:00:09 Harris Turtle 21:00:11 -!- augur has joined. 21:00:17 nortti: probably warping through persian intermediates 21:00:26 or just europeans being bad at languages as per usual 21:00:35 very possible 21:00:56 interesting that finnish uses pretty-direct transliteration "Aristoteles" 21:00:57 Slereah_: i think part of it is like i said, it hasn't happened so much in physics. 21:00:58 oerjan++ 21:00:58 nortti : why is Ἄνουβις in greek when his egyptian name is inpw 21:01:18 it used to be more of a thing that you would translate names for a different language 21:01:18 at least not that i know of. i ain't a physicist. hell yea 21:01:21 I mean there's plenty of wrong theories in physics, certainly 21:01:30 but for the most part, they weren't like 21:01:30 and some of the names we use today are based on n steps of translation, I guess 21:01:35 Experimentally very wrong 21:01:37 like if you were a scientist you had to have a latin name 21:01:46 my favorite warped name is avicenna 21:02:10 Hey what about 21:02:14 Lamarckian evolution 21:02:14 Slereah_: i was thinking of this because i was raeding a book from the 70s (so not that old) that put forward the folding muscle thing, which has nothing at all to do with the modern theory 21:02:18 Or Lysenkoism 21:02:27 lysenkoism could work 21:02:42 Or really a lot of scientific theories from the soviet union 21:02:45 lamarckianism is kind of weird because of things like it being a huge influence on darwin 21:02:49 there was a Party Line on science 21:02:55 Hence there was a lot of weird things 21:03:07 the only major ones i know are lysenko and pavlov, and pavlov wasn't /that/ wrong 21:03:19 What about 21:03:20 FREUD 21:03:22 So very wrong 21:03:35 Or phlogiston 21:03:43 they still teach psychoanalysis in intro psych classes. 21:03:48 I know! 21:03:49 what about individual (as opposed to gene) selection :3 21:03:55 i don't know why, but 21:04:15 kmc: can opens up beneath us, we fall into an earth sized sphere made entirely of worms 21:04:27 Oh 21:04:31 And HOLLOW EARTH 21:04:38 That was big for a while 21:04:40 was hollow earth ever a mainstream thing 21:04:48 Dunno about mainstream 21:04:54 Bike: oh, what about the theory that the sun was mostly iron 21:04:59 But it enjoyed some popularity in the early 20th century 21:05:03 it's like, i know some guys that said mountains were formed by underground gas pockets, but nobody much believed them 21:05:13 oerjan: oh i half remember that one 21:05:58 They had that one flat-vs-round on-the-river test about the curvature of Earth that got them the result that the surface is in fact concave. 21:06:10 that sounds awesome. 21:06:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment 21:06:29 aether is the sort of thing i wouldn't count, since it's how other waves work, and i'm gonna be honest i have no idea how EM works 21:06:39 Flat earth theory hasn't been that popular in the last few thousand years 21:07:13 "Several protracted court cases ensued, with the result that Hampden was imprisoned for libel and threatening to kill Wallace." ah, the scientific method 21:07:18 Not popular, but it's had its adherents. 21:07:23 Although 21:07:28 hm, maybe steady state universe. 21:07:31 It did have its proponents 21:07:35 Back in the days 21:07:36 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Baylonianmaps.JPG 21:07:42 Fucking world map~ 21:07:49 old world maps rule 21:07:56 It is the oldest world map 21:08:13 «Wallace, who had been unaware of Rowbotham's earlier experiments, was criticized by his peers for "his 'injudicious' involvement in a bet to 'decide' the most fundamental and established of scientific facts"» is this like, the 1800s version of evolution debates 21:08:44 The concavity thing is in the "Other experiments" section. 21:08:44 Although it's really just a little area around babylon 21:08:49 Lazy cartographers 21:08:54 oh hey lewontin wrote a bit about selection units, sweet 21:10:30 http://www.tryidris.org/console 21:10:43 (I know, I know, probably not esoteric enough) 21:11:44 Hey myname 21:11:46 What about 21:11:57 Continuous brainfuck 21:12:11 Might be hard! 21:12:40 what? 21:12:55 Brainfuck over the real line~ 21:13:11 Although I guess on a processor, it will probably be basic brainfuck 21:13:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:13:17 Depending how you define it 21:14:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:14:35 don't get it 21:15:09 Just some vague idea I had 21:15:18 Brainfuck that uses a function over R instead of a tape 21:15:39 i see 21:15:41 And I guess instead of +- whatever, you use some basis for real functions 21:15:55 like maybe some Fourier modes 21:17:10 http://abstrusegoose.com/564 21:17:12 heh 21:18:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:19:35 kmc: Fun fact: there are 20 trains currently on their way from somewhere to somewhere else in Finland. (VR has an "open data" feed of their current positions.) 21:19:57 (That's not very many; but it is 00:20am, maybe there's more during the day.) 21:20:30 How many of the conductors are drunk though 21:21:06 istr when we discussed continuous brainfuck, the +->< commands were like infinitesimals, and then you put them in a loop to get larger effects. 21:22:01 Well if they're infinitesimals you can't add them up to larger effects 21:22:02 hm, that is rather few 21:22:03 i'm not sure a proper semantics was made. probably would involve differential equations. 21:22:06 I assume that doesn't include the Helsinki Metro 21:22:09 That's the whole point of infinitesimals! 21:22:20 subway trains aren't trains, duh 21:22:21 Slereah_: yes you can, if you add infinitely many of them! 21:22:27 They break the Archimedian properties 21:22:32 well it isn't run by VR 21:22:38 Well yeah but then how will you define them 21:22:51 In the end you'll just replicate the natural numbers 21:22:53 kmc: Probably not, though it wouldn't be running at this time anyway. 21:22:55 With a fancier syntax 21:22:59 distinguishing subways from mainline / commuter trains is pretty easy in America, but quite difficult in some places (like Japan) 21:23:07 kmc: It stops at 23:20 except on Fridays. 21:23:31 (And Saturdays.) 21:23:40 Slereah_: that was the intuitive meaning. as i said, a proper semantics would probably involve differential equations. 21:23:55 Well 21:24:18 Technically, you can't make all real functions from differential equations with integer factors 21:24:23 also, nonstandard reals probably 21:24:29 Also I think some diff eqs are uncomputable 21:24:33 fizzie: boooooo 21:24:38 when does it stop on friday / saturday? 21:24:49 Slereah_: i fail to see how this matters to an esolang hth 21:25:02 kmc: Last trains start at 01:15am one way and 01:05am the other. 21:25:04 Well it does for an implementable one 21:25:19 Although 21:25:24 what could be nice is 21:25:29 Doing it entirely hardware 21:25:35 Might work better! 21:25:41 Just doin' it with currents 21:25:59 (This Friday/Saturday extension is a relatively new thing, they started it in November last year.) 21:27:04 Is there any neural network based esolang? 21:27:06 and when does the first train in the morning run? 21:27:09 Or other such similar concepts 21:27:22 stopping at 23:20 is worse than a lot of subways in america :/ 21:29:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wittgen are the only hits for Neural. 21:29:49 fizzie: are there night buses in helsinki? 21:31:41 the last trains on BART depart around midnight or 00:30 on a weekday, depending on the station 21:31:51 the last train from the airport is before midnight, which is annoying 21:32:11 and they start up around 04:00 21:32:36 Google Transit will sometimes give you transit instructions that involve waiting on a street corner in Los Angeles for three hours in the middle of the night 21:32:59 I wonder how long it would take to make a neural network learn the Fibonacci sequence 21:33:09 Just input an ordinal and get the sequence member 21:33:58 based on the evidence of my brain, i estimate that it would take approximately forever, unless the neural network was also a nerd 21:34:14 What if i put glasses on it 21:35:11 probably needs a pocket protector too 21:37:13 kmc: There are special night-only bus lines, about 5 of theme these days. They go in a zigzaggy way in approximately equally spaced directions starting from the city centre. 21:38:12 Not very many scheduled departures, it's something like (for e.g. the 400N line) 2:35, 3:15, 4:00 and 4:15. 21:38:21 only fice? hah, small town people 21:38:41 They all seem to be also Friday-and-Saturday-only. 21:38:50 even more so 21:39:27 in some places, Budapest has better night buses than day ones 21:40:00 maybe I should start going to work at \night 21:40:14 The local non-subway trains do have some amount of night service. 21:41:45 the trains don't go during night here 21:41:50 Like, there's stop-on-all-stations departures from Helsinki towards Riihimäki/Lahti at 1:01, 1:31, 2:01, 2:31, 3:01, 4:01, 5:01 on the Fri/Sat and Sat/Sun nights; that pretty much covers the gap between the regular evening and morning trains. 21:42:14 that's nice 21:42:24 I'd like that here 21:42:44 Of course it's less nice if you happen to have some reason to be out late on anything else than a Friday or a Saturday. 21:43:39 E.g. it's pretty hard to go home to sleep on the first night of a Thursday-to-Sunday (pseudo-)demoscene event. 21:43:46 that sounds invader zimish <-- zzo38 is invader zim? 21:43:59 (Probably my only regular reason for interfacing with late-night public transportation.) 21:45:33 I think the trains and non-urban buses stop during night so much that there's an instant each night when all passenger trains and all non-urban buses in the country are stopped. 21:45:53 but it's hard to be sure about that for the buses, with these stupid timetables 21:48:23 http://www.theallium.com/science-life/scientists-reportedly-close-to-finding-a-use-for-linkedin/ <-- subtle hostname, there 21:48:37 hehe 21:48:58 Though now that we live where we live, the last years I've just used the bicycle paths that run next to the train tracks. Summer nights/early mornings here are quite good for that; it's reasonably light, and usually refreshingly chilly. 21:49:20 Plus the place is for some reason full of rabbits around 03am or so. 21:49:42 I think I counted around twenty on a single trip. 21:49:58 (There's a bit of a pest problem with these "city bunnies".) 21:50:19 I see 21:50:24 http://yle.fi/uutiset/hunt_for_city_bunnies_begins/6284368 21:50:39 cuuuuuuute~ 21:51:07 Those things go ridiculously fast for their size. 21:51:16 i knew some good spots to find bunnies in Cambridge MA, but none in SF :/ 21:52:29 "Helsinki to feed lions and vultures with city bunnies" sounds very exciting. 21:53:10 The circle of life. Except the bunnies are descendants of former pets, and the lions and vultures are in a zoo. 21:53:32 (And humans do the catching and feeding.) 21:53:51 oerjan: easy to find out. does he have any friends? 21:53:54 "The animal keepers at the zoo have also tried offering rabbits to the Steller's Sea Eagles, Haliaeetus pelagicus, but with little success. Apparently the heaviest eagle in the world, a beast with a wingspan of more than two metres, is actually afraid of the rather small cuddly cuties, which bear a passing resemblance to fur mittens." 21:54:15 -!- kallisti has joined. 21:54:52 -!- conehead has joined. 21:56:27 myname: you know, i have no evidence on that. does his D&D DM count? 21:59:59 :D 22:06:32 there are rabbits all over the place at warwick 22:06:43 i saw a ginger one last year 22:10:44 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:21 i think i forgot how to sleep 22:18:41 myname, me too 22:18:47 I'm going to sleep now 22:18:58 Then in the morning, TRAVEL TO THE HOMELAND OF PHANTOM HOOVER 22:19:09 like, i am yawning every other minute but stay awake 22:19:21 *dun dun dun* 22:19:45 (I need to visit the Australian Commission to renew my passport) 22:20:08 Anyway, goodnight 22:20:17 Taneb, why is the australian comission in edinburgh 22:20:41 oh wait i guess edinburgh's just closer than london 22:30:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:30:12 -!- glogbot has joined. 22:30:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:30:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:35:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:08 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:34 -!- shikhout has joined. 22:55:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:55:22 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 22:56:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:03:56 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 23:04:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:05:09 -!- boily has joined. 23:06:03 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:44 -!- JesseH has joined. 23:07:01 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:07:53 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:18:51 -!- tromp has joined. 23:23:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:50:33 good evening. a random thought was floating around in my cranium. 23:50:53 anyone know if jsvine published the Infamous Interview? 23:51:49 never heard anything. 23:52:18 -!- madbr has joined. 23:52:41 anyone has done verilog? 23:52:47 I did. 23:52:49 someone has 23:52:57 :o 23:53:00 did ais523 use that or the other one 23:53:08 vhdl? 23:53:16 yeah 23:53:23 I should have ought to have did vhdl, but kinda dodged it. 23:53:45 never done any but vhdl looks rather worse 23:54:04 i'm sure both of these questions could have been easily answered if Gregor hadn't broken `pastelogs hth 23:55:13 madbr: vhdl is refurbished ada. 23:56:10 never tried ada either but it sounds grody 23:57:48 -!- metasepia has joined. 23:57:49 ~duck grody 23:57:49 --- No relevant information 23:57:54 `? grody 23:57:55 grody? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:59:55 looks just slightly more wordy in a way that makes it both harder to read and longer to type 2014-04-17: 00:00:38 cromulent. 00:04:37 kinda wonder how hard it is to design a simple cpu, video rendering chip or sound playing chip 00:06:42 well, sound playing is the easiest. a few simple wave generators, subtractive synthesis, and you're golden. 00:06:58 hm 00:07:08 in fact, you could design one with only basic discrete components. 00:07:15 (and a few logic gates if you wanna be fancy.) 00:07:28 doesn't the filter require multipliers? 00:07:54 in some feedback configuration 00:08:39 op amps. I always forget op amps. 00:08:47 in verilog? 00:08:52 eeeeeeh... 00:09:02 I think you have them. I'd be very surprised if you didn't. 00:09:32 (but then, my understanding of verilog is quite limited and backwards, as I had urging deadlines and ethereal teammates to manage...) 00:10:27 * boily wonders if xcircuit is still maintained... “I have fond memories of that buggy and crashy piece of software...” 00:11:39 hm, the one I've played around with is HADES 00:11:45 and that's digital only 00:12:19 xcircuit is only for drawing. it was quite nice, when it was running. 00:13:05 I know I used something from xilinx a long time ago. 00:14:37 mhmm 00:15:29 I guess you could tape together 2 or 3 oscillators, pass through a textbook filter and multiply for volume yeah 00:15:40 then replicate 6 times for a whole synth 00:17:03 not very efficient but easy to design 00:18:56 I once combined a lo- and a hi-pass filter to make a no-pass filter. the end result was... unusual. 00:20:35 filters were never too interesting to implement in sound LSIs 00:21:10 until they became so large that they could just spend the extra multipliers on them 00:21:36 (wavetable-based chips such as the soundblaster awe-32) 00:24:52 -!- ^v has joined. 00:39:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:39:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 00:39:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:43:31 -!- tromp has joined. 00:48:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:49:32 http://rxnm.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/image_thumb12.png?w=887&h=566 Meanwhile, science progresses 00:51:28 are you trying to point out the irony of the article vs. the number in the top bar 00:51:44 yes 00:51:50 good, good 00:52:02 his impact factor is over 9,000 00:55:40 Bike: perhaps you should stay away from inhabited planets twh 00:55:56 every planet we reach is dead 00:56:11 i don't actually know how impact factor is calculated. could you have 9000? is there like a singularity somewhere 00:56:30 what's gauss's impact factor 00:56:30 maybe over 1000 or so means everyone on earth is constantly thinking about your paper on cockroach neuroendocrine cells 00:56:39 what is an impact factor? against what is it impacted? 00:57:03 It's a measure of your science penis 00:57:03 impalas 00:57:15 also imps 00:57:40 impomatic shouldn't feel too safe, either 00:57:51 oh it's actually pretty simple: a journal's impact factor is number of citations of papers / number of papers written 00:58:19 "The impact factor is based on the arithmetic mean number of citations per paper, yet citation counts follow a Bradford distribution (i.e., a power law distribution) and therefore the arithmetic mean is a statistically inappropriate measure." scientists are so awesomely bad at stats 00:59:41 oerjan: so, if I unabashedly mapole impomatic, I can augment my Factor? 01:00:36 Annual Review of Immunology had the highest in 2006, apparently 01:00:41 `factor 9000 01:00:42 9000: 2 2 2 3 3 5 5 5 01:01:22 boily: there's also a danger of both your factor and impomatic being smashed to little primes 01:02:33 http://mushroomobserver.org/image/show_image/386349?q=1uvb6&size=full_size 01:02:53 Bike: clearly they should simply define the new Power Impact which takes this into account 01:02:55 impomatic: do you accept being a victim^Wvaluable contributor to a scientific experience of utmost importance? 01:04:43 kmc: i take it the flavor just rolls off your tongue 01:04:59 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:06:11 douglass_: btw the nick thiotimoline is vacant here hth 01:06:31 you can register multiple nicks to the same nickserv account 01:06:49 oerjan: there's an elaboration where you weigh cites based on the citing journal's impact factor, like PageRank. it's fucking crazy 01:09:45 kmc: yes but thiotimoline hasn't been registered yet. nor has douglass_ fwiw 01:09:58 yeah 01:10:01 that was to douglass_ not you 01:10:11 ok 01:11:02 there's some limit but i'm pretty sure it's higher than 3 (i just have the 2) 01:12:10 Bike: clearly they should use the improved bfjoust algorithm. 01:12:11 -!- augur has joined. 01:12:20 yeah that would make sense 01:15:56 elo ratings 01:16:30 ~duck elo 01:16:31 --- No relevant information 01:16:51 `hello elo 01:16:52 Hello 01:16:53 stupide bot de mes deux de pas foutu de trouver de l'information quand qu'on lui demande non mais tsé quand même... 01:17:20 `hello hm 01:17:20 Hello 01:17:27 `cat bin/hello 01:17:28 echo Hello 01:17:28 `thanks ants 01:17:29 Thanks, ants. Thants. 01:17:35 `ello elo 01:17:36 `thanks Hanks 01:17:36 elello 01:17:36 Thanks, Hanks. Thanks. 01:18:34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBHjx4dYxjA&t=2m20s my daily commute 01:19:10 haha 01:19:28 i like the part where individuals from different generations walk side by side 01:19:54 Bike: why do people throw boxes at you on your commute 01:20:15 They think I'm ugly since I'm made of boxes 01:20:17 racism is terrible 01:20:32 they see me boxin', they hatin' 01:20:46 the dinosaurs falling over rule though yes 01:20:57 -!- JZTech102 has joined. 01:20:58 hey it could be worse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBHjx4dYxjA&t=3m10s 01:22:07 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:22:07 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:22:35 yeah i laughed out loud at that 01:22:36 like why 01:22:41 me too 01:25:11 -!- vravn has joined. 01:26:35 et moi aussi 01:30:26 someone may have found a fly in the ointment of that inflation discovery http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2014/apr/10/have-galactic-radio-loops-been-mistaken-for-b-mode-polarization 01:33:32 -!- JZTech102 has changed nick to JZTech101. 01:33:33 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Changing host). 01:33:33 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 01:34:04 * oerjan smells a bot 01:37:54 ( 10/85 01:37:54 0.11764705882352941 : Float 01:38:29 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel with > 10% bots | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 01:38:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:39:55 I'm using douglass_ instead of douglass because I registered douglass and then was too lazy to use it. I do like thiotimoline a bit better but it's less recognizable to people who know me in real life. 01:40:24 ha ha, i knew i recognized the name from somewhere (no i didn't) 01:41:01 we have over 10% bots? wooooah... 01:41:05 douglass_: unless you have nick protection on, you don't _need_ to log in to use douglass 01:41:37 I don't even remember what I did when I set up this screen. 01:41:47 Certainly too lazy to change anything until it dies. 01:41:47 . 01:41:49 OKAY 01:41:58 "I inherited this dtach from my mother..." 01:42:51 boily: that also includes the logging bots. 01:43:55 and one unknown member, namely myndzi. 01:44:11 I should play with Snap 01:44:15 * boily -> mattress 01:44:18 i didn't include myndzi in the 10, but e would certainly not hurt the number 01:44:36 go myndzi! embrace your siliconoïd side! 01:44:42 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ROBOT CHICKEN). 01:44:44 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:49:37 http://www.christianet.com/creditcounseling/ 01:49:43 Christian... credit counseling 01:49:47 I don't get it 01:52:25 I tried to install Snap, it seems to be installing lens.... 01:52:40 Oh, right, Snap was the one that bothered me for having its own little weird lens library, iirc 01:52:43 Has that changed? 01:53:50 do you ever think about turbulence 01:56:35 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:36 isn't christianity generally against credit? 01:57:12 -!- tromp has joined. 01:57:26 if you're like, living in 1200s Europe, maybe 01:59:54 http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/lending_money/ex22_24.html 02:00:47 -!- xpte has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:01:13 Yes as it turns out practice does not completely correspond to any legal code for more than about two seconds 02:01:43 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:01:53 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:02:07 Insofar as legal codes even mean anything bla bla bla 02:02:50 -!- xpte has joined. 02:04:56 iiuc there was a time in europe when that was interpreted by the christians such that they could not take interest from anyone, but by the jews such that they couldn't take interest from other jews, but could do it from christians. and so jews became the major bankers. 02:05:48 (this iiuc comes with no guarantees of actually being correct) 02:15:51 -!- ggherdov has joined. 02:30:55 That's what I was trying to get at with the 1200s comment, yeah. it was usury. 02:31:22 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39344&oldid=39341 * Zerk * (+224) 02:31:59 the workarounds are pretty hilarious sometimes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking#Bai.27_al_.27inah_.28sale_and_buy-back_agreement.29 02:50:09 haha 02:55:10 Hey non-Americans, question: in your early math classes what symbols were used to describe a basic linear equation 02:56:39 how early 02:57:13 primary school? like "here's a line" early 02:57:25 not that i'm non-American, but i was in .il math classes until 4th grade or so 02:57:32 what do you mean by symbols 03:00:04 y = ax + b 03:00:05 ? 03:00:36 something like that, yes. 03:00:50 i have no idea 03:01:01 did we even have those 03:01:11 didn't see that until secondaire 1 tho (grade 7) 03:01:13 i'm wondering because In American the usual is mx + b and the reason for the m is apparently mysterious 03:01:20 In America rather 03:01:22 oh yeah might have been 03:01:24 mx + b 03:01:39 quadratics are still ax² + bx + c though 03:01:43 base and mantissa... wait no 03:01:54 multiplier? 03:02:00 I was at a friend's house, and some teacher(?) was quizzing me, and I knew things like derivatives but not what y=mx+b was about 03:02:03 i literally found a citation for this saying "It just happened" 03:02:08 This was many, many years ago 03:02:14 multiplier? i hardly know 'er! 03:02:32 and like apparently in swedeworld it's usually "kx + m", k for koefficient 03:02:48 m = slope; don't know why though 03:02:49 a⁢x² + m⁢x + b 03:02:53 just stick the m in there 03:02:57 genius. 03:03:06 (i totally used U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES, by the way) 03:03:10 (just sayin') 03:03:15 whoa 03:03:23 :O 03:03:24 * Sgeo verifies shachaf's clam. 03:03:31 (Actually not fully verified) 03:03:39 (And not a clam, but that was deliberate) 03:03:45 wow, one of the citations is to an aol page 03:04:06 Bike: but aren't they both koëfficients :'( 03:04:12 wait maybe that's not valid swedish 03:04:20 which is down, but thankfully i found a mirror. on tripod. 03:04:33 shachaf: «where k may derive from "koefficient" in the Swedish word for slope, "riktningskoefficient."» is what it says 03:04:36 but yes. 03:04:51 rïktningsköefficient 03:05:11 Bïke 03:05:16 * oerjan swats Bike -----### 03:05:22 :< 03:05:30 ö IS A SEPARATE LETTER 03:05:36 -!- password2 has joined. 03:05:37 wat 03:05:46 oerjan: you should be swatting me, though 03:05:56 coefficient, more like scowefficient 03:06:25 (because it's such a scow) 03:07:48 incidentally sv:ko = cow but sv:kö = queue 03:08:02 what about no:kø 03:08:56 that's also queue 03:09:03 but cow is ku 03:09:15 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:09:26 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39345&oldid=39344 * Zerk * (+57) /* Toplevel */ fixed math by adding unwrapped 0/1 defs 03:09:43 -!- ^v has joined. 03:09:58 :t maybe 03:09:59 b -> (a -> b) -> Maybe a -> b 03:10:08 and ko is not a common word in norwegian. 03:10:14 maybe 5 (error "Must be Nothing") 03:10:15 vs 03:10:25 maybe 5 (const $ error "Must be nothing) 03:10:32 Any significant reason to use one vs the other? 03:10:43 :t maybe 5 (error "Must be nothing") 03:10:45 Num b => Maybe a -> b 03:10:46 more dosh 03:10:50 :t maybe 5 (const $ error "Must be nothing") 03:10:50 Num b => Maybe a -> b 03:10:59 the $ indicates xtreme dosh 03:11:02 @src maybe 03:11:03 maybe n _ Nothing = n 03:11:03 maybe _ f (Just x) = f x 03:11:16 they will compile to the same thing 03:11:50 $wag overload 03:12:47 i don't think there's any difference in semantics 03:13:07 benchmark it with criterion 03:13:22 given that maybe won't be applying any seq's to it. 03:14:20 that's actually what i meant 03:14:23 kö sounds like a borrowing 03:14:28 i didn't mean that they would compile to the same thing 03:14:31 Sgeo: basically const $ error ... is equivalent to error ... unless you apply seq to it 03:14:39 i meant they have the same semantics and i was wondering whether they would also compile to the same thing 03:14:47 so i said the other one 03:14:47 Even in terms of when the error message gets shown? 03:14:51 only if maybe gets inlined probably? 03:15:29 i'm confused, this seems like the sort of thing haskell is pretty simple about 03:15:47 Bike: undefined, and laziness in general, is a ... complication 03:15:59 laziness: the ultimate side effect 03:16:05 it's not very complicated here 03:16:49 I assume laziness can be described as a monad 03:17:27 Although it kind of sucks to use lifted 'pure' functions in it, since they would be considered to be strict, I think 03:17:33 Haskell didn't so much eliminate side effects as introduce a single pervasive side effect that doesn't play nice with others 03:17:40 * kmc checks if that's less than 140 characters 03:18:01 Yeah but it allows for fancy tricks! At the expense of safety 03:18:06 happiness is a warm monad 03:18:27 the english word for cow is "cow" 03:19:15 the english term for "cow" is "use-mention distinction" 03:20:50 names with their own names! 03:21:11 so does anyone else think once you have a "series of monographs" in over 40 volumes you should consider calling it something else 03:22:48 i assume it's time to link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddocks'_Eyes#Naming again 03:23:08 Bike: a polygraph hth 03:23:09 Bike: a polygraph? 03:23:12 efb 03:23:17 wow how did i not think of that 03:23:23 , he lied 03:23:42 efb? 03:23:54 oerjan: yeah that's the only example I know, besides "tetragrammaton" 03:23:57 edit: fuck, beaten 03:24:14 logos 03:24:17 tdh 03:24:23 hm? 03:25:07 "efb" tdh hth hand 03:25:14 yeah 03:25:17 what 03:25:23 ` 03:25:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 03:25:32 ŵ 03:25:34 that did help hope that helped have a nice day 03:25:37 ` 03:25:38 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 03:25:44 oh 03:25:49 `? tdh 03:25:50 tdh is the past tense of a successful hth. hth. 03:25:59 tdnh 03:26:08 `àwesomé´ 03:26:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: àwesomé´: not found 03:27:09 `? tdnh 03:27:10 tdnh does not help 03:28:09 `run echo $PATH 03:28:09 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 03:28:45 i guess there's no way to get an empty command name to work 03:29:05 inside the box 03:35:48 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:44:25 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 03:49:35 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39346&oldid=39345 * Zerk * (-6) /* Toplevel */ properly* fixed math 03:49:41 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 04:00:43 -!- kallisti_ has joined. 04:03:39 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:08:07 -!- tromp has joined. 04:23:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:30:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:32:14 `? hand 04:32:15 hand? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 04:46:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:47:13 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:47:34 -!- Bike has joined. 04:52:53 -!- shikhout has joined. 04:54:44 (About OverlappingInstances) 04:54:45 "Can sometimes be simulated with the extra-method trick used in the Show class of the Prelude for showing lists of characters differently than lists of other things. 04:54:45 " 04:54:48 What trick is this? 04:55:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:55:49 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 04:56:27 :t showList 04:56:29 Show a => [a] -> ShowS 05:00:00 Is it a bad idea to write code like 05:00:07 blah >>= flip when $ do ... 05:00:18 yes 05:00:32 > "flip" `isInfixOf` "blah >>= flip when $ do ..." 05:00:32 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 05:00:32 No such variable isInfixOf 05:00:34 True 05:00:42 idris-ircslave: go away or change your prefix 05:00:43 When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 05:00:43 No such variable go 05:12:16 I understand these days you just bite the bullet and use @run. 05:13:02 lambdabot: @run away or change your prefix 05:13:04 Not in scope: ‘away’Not in scope: ‘change’ 05:13:04 Perhaps you meant one of these: 05:13:04 ‘range’ (imported from Data.Ix), 05:13:04 ‘hang’ (imported from Text.PrettyPrint.HughesPJ)Not in scope: ‘your’Not in... 05:13:04 Perhaps you meant ‘prefixed’ (imported from Data.List.Lens) 05:14:00 Idris also had something lambdabot did not respond to. 05:14:16 Yes, I used it a few lines above. 05:14:19 (Apparently.) 05:15:26 Something shorter than the full name, too. 05:16:18 ( 2 + 2 05:16:18 4 : Integer 05:16:25 That. 05:17:08 ( 2 + 2 ) 05:17:08 (input):1:7: error: expected: "$", 05:17:08 "$>", "&&", "&&&", "*", "***", 05:17:08 "+", "++", "-", "->", ".", "/", 05:17:08 "/=", ":+", ":-", "::", ":::", 05:17:08 ":=", "<", "<$", "<$>", "<*>",↵… 05:17:10 hmph 05:17:12 It's like, it acquired a non-conflicting prefix, but did not get rid of >. 05:18:06 Which I kind of hope it would, but haven't cared about enough to say anything. 05:19:09 Think about it, shachaf, this is helping to get rid of the ) backlog. 05:19:16 (() 05:19:46 (: just doing my part. 05:27:31 -!- kallisti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 05:30:16 -!- kallisti has joined. 05:36:34 http://freshbsd.org/search?project=openbsd&q=file.name:libssl they mad 05:37:33 -!- asie has joined. 05:37:34 https://github.com/jmhodges/libssl/commits/master 05:37:41 hi! i used to be known as asiekierka here 05:37:43 a few years back 05:37:45 how are you? 05:41:00 kmc: hmm, you've written ~20% more words in #haskell than i have 05:42:32 Bike: hm your link is better 05:42:53 i am the superior being. 05:47:06 hasn't jconn already ruined the paren-balance of this room? 05:47:36 -!- conehead_ has joined. 05:48:05 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:50:07 ( () 05:50:07 () : () 05:50:23 ( () -- ) 05:50:24 () : () 05:50:29 ( -- () -- ) 05:50:29 command not recognized or not supported 05:50:35 is that a tie fighter 05:51:15 rather a TIE Advanced x1 05:51:20 ( -- ( ⋈ ) -- ) 05:51:20 command not recognized or not supported 05:53:18 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 05:55:46 https://www.dropbox.com/s/skmvujsn35s6q2x/IMG_20140417_075324.jpg wat 05:58:49 i don't think that's particularly weird 05:59:04 (except that i don't like any of those bands) 05:59:24 the second paragraph confuses me 05:59:31 http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/6fec7be36425adfd2b48f3695d24a03f6287d4fe wat 05:59:54 i don't get why he translated from german in a german university, either 06:00:00 the fucking? 06:00:14 those are some good musicians 06:00:14 the fucking is one point, yes 06:00:16 maybe that's slightly weird 06:00:20 myname: for the international students? 06:00:22 perhaps i should find this person and engage in some of these activities 06:00:40 kmc: go for it 06:01:00 ) 06:02:52 kmc: in return, name a cool esolang i could write a compiler for, that is not too hard to make 06:05:46 * Jafet memorizes that list of musicians for later hipster usage 06:06:08 lol 06:06:32 yeah radiohead is a pretty obscure hipster band 06:07:18 It looks like they forgot to translate Strawinsky 06:07:32 translate from what 06:07:34 tschaikowsky 06:08:48 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:08:50 wait are all those gerunds meant to apply to the noun "music" 06:09:06 kmc: i am not sure 06:09:16 that was my interpretation 06:09:16 -!- ^v has joined. 06:09:21 especially how "fucking music" would look like 06:09:23 it makes... more and less sense simultaneously 06:09:26 yeah 06:09:51 i thought the joke was that it sounds like he is proposing sex, but then it turns out he is still talking about music 06:09:58 heh 06:10:07 but what the hell is fucking muic? 06:10:09 *s 06:10:48 (and that maybe his original wording in german made that slightly clearer, although i guess that's a bit unlikely) 06:11:04 myname: that guy is, and the friends who respond? 06:11:26 he says something like in increasing order of emotional whatever 06:12:22 perhaps he refers to products such as http://www.ohmibod.com/ [nsfw i guess] 06:12:49 music controlled vibrators 06:13:18 sounds awesome 06:13:18 perhaps the meaning of (emotionally ordered) was clearer originally 06:13:27 and yeah those sound awesome 06:14:07 eh better to build a USB control kit for the Magic Wand, i think 06:14:13 http://www.gamegirladvance.com/2002/10/sex-in-games-rezvibrator.html 06:14:23 kmc: go and sell the result 06:14:29 you will be rich in no time 06:14:41 maybe... 06:14:44 selling stuff is hard 06:14:47 then it has to be, like, good 06:14:53 i've never made a physical thing that was good 06:14:54 it's hard 06:15:23 the Hitachi Magic Wand contains a 120 V DC motor 06:15:31 the two speed settings correspond to half-wave and full-wave rectifiers 06:15:53 ask me how i know this 06:16:03 how do you know this? 06:16:08 by taking one apart 06:16:17 that poor thing 06:16:21 wasn't mine 06:16:27 and we put it back together 06:16:29 i could think of better use cases 06:16:33 ah, okay 06:17:34 -!- conehead_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 06:22:39 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:23:55 at one of the sex toy shops in SF they have a museum with a bunch of old vibrators 06:25:40 the vibrator was the fifth ever electric domestic appliance 06:25:45 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 06:26:00 at which point is the washing mashine? 06:28:15 much later I think 06:28:46 complicated and needs lots of power 06:29:00 early appliances just connected in place of a light bulb 06:29:27 at what point was mr burbujas 06:29:37 mr burbujas exists outside of time and space 06:29:48 our entire universe is but one bubble in his frothy beard 06:30:13 for the un-enlightened: http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/photos/large/mr-burbujas.jpg 06:30:23 kmc: the resistance? 06:33:53 * kmc -> bed (?) 06:34:50 bͭ̒̎ȅ̛̽d̯̤̈́? 07:32:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:49:12 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:10:44 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 08:10:55 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:14:05 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:14:50 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:14:50 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:39:18 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:40:24 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:41:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:50:28 -!- asie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:52:17 -!- asie has joined. 09:02:53 boily, oerjan: anything in the name of science... 09:05:25 Bike: It's quite commonly "kx + ???" in Finland, and the "k" can be argued to stand for "kulmakerroin". I don't remember what the ??? usually is. 09:05:58 mmhm mmhm 09:06:20 I think maybe "kx + b", though there is no Finnish explanation for b. 09:07:02 http://opinnot.net/kokonaisuudet/index.php?id_kokon=164&kieli_id=1&taso_kokon=0&oppiaine_kokon=2 and so on. 09:09:07 Searching for "y=kx" in Finnish has "b" for 9 out of 10 hits on the first page. (Last one just has "y = kx".) 09:10:11 ("kerroin" = coefficient, "kulma" = angle.) 09:10:30 ("kerroin" = "I told".) 09:13:39 It's the noun for coefficient, the first-person singular indicative past form of the verb "kertoa" 'to tell, to multiply (transitive)', and (which I didn't even think about at all before looking at Wiktionary) the instructive case plural form of the noun "kerta" (approx. 'occasion'). Possibly because the instructive case is such nonsense. 09:13:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructive_case 09:13:54 What's that good for, anyway? 09:15:41 I guess it's used in something like "kaksin kerroin". 09:20:37 -!- yorick has joined. 09:22:26 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:44:09 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 09:45:22 Fun fact: a = 0; printf("%d %d %d %d", a, a++, a, a++); produces "2 1 2 0" on many GCC versions on x86 and x86-64, "2 0 2 1" on GCC 4.7 on ARM and ICC 12.1.0 on x86-64, "0 0 1 1" on some versions of clang on x86-64, and "2 1 2 1" on the PGI C compiler on x86-64. 09:45:44 That's probably not an exhaustive list. 09:45:59 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:47:26 The one with no zeroes in it is quite nice. 09:57:36 fizzie: on x86, doesn't it also depend on -mcpu/-mtune? 09:57:54 and maybe on other optimization switches 09:58:01 I couldn't coax other outputs with flags, but I'm sure it could be possible. 09:59:09 we should make a C compiler that launches /usr/games/hack on compiling such program 10:16:31 -!- boily has joined. 10:29:22 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:29:56 -!- asie has quit (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.). 10:32:47 You hacker 11:01:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:05:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Ping: Read: Error: Timeout: Remote: Chicken). 11:07:37 -!- nucular has joined. 11:07:37 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 11:07:37 -!- nucular has joined. 11:17:54 -!- jconn has joined. 11:19:08 -!- atslash has joined. 11:25:49 -!- atslash has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:26:19 -!- atslash has joined. 11:27:47 -!- password2 has joined. 11:37:49 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:38:17 -!- slereah has joined. 11:40:17 -!- jconn has joined. 12:10:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:11:31 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:18:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:44:05 Hm 12:44:23 What activation function would be faster for a backpropagation algorithm 12:44:46 The basic sigmoid has an exponential in it, but on the other hand the derivative can be expressed simply by the function 12:45:06 atan has 1/(1+x^2) as its derivative 12:45:23 And the one that is 1/(1 + |x|) is simple to calculate but the derivative has to be calculated independantly 12:45:29 Well probably anywa 12:46:37 Changing the activation also changes the learning rate, doesn't it 12:46:42 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 12:46:55 Probably 12:47:01 Dont know which one is better for it 12:47:53 -!- Sellyme has joined. 12:52:39 The Elliott activation function has the best name, obviously. 12:53:20 http://www.dontveter.com/bpr/activate.html 12:53:25 BACKPROAGATOR REVIEW 12:53:26 Ahah 12:54:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:55:46 tanh is a sigmoid too 12:56:17 Not sure if it would be suitable though 12:56:29 "Both these sigmoid approach their extremes more slowly. This means that if you are trying to output numerical values it will take more iterations to reach your target value. But if you're doing a classification problem you really only care to get the correct output value greater than the other outputs and here these functions will save on CPU time without influencing the number of iterations required by very much. " 12:56:30 Hm 12:57:26 I guess I'll worry about that later and try several activation functions 12:57:37 "However, while simulation is faster with elliotsig, training is not guaranteed to be faster, due to the different shapes of the two transfer functions. Here, 10 networks are each trained for tansig and elliotsig, but training times vary significantly even on the same problem with the same network." (MATLAB Neural Networking toolbox, "Optimize Neural Network Training Speed and Memory" article.) 13:01:37 -!- conehead has joined. 13:13:20 does it really misspell his name? 13:14:30 elliott, tell us about your activation function 13:14:45 that might be hard 13:14:49 elliott: It does; it also does not credit him in any way. 13:15:53 Not that I think MATLAB documentation usually does, but still. 13:17:33 (It also doesn't mention what the actual function is, anywhere; I had to use "type" to check that it actually is the same as that David Elliott one.) 13:17:50 it's a lot more common as a surname than a first name, it seems 13:20:50 -!- douglass_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 13:22:23 -!- douglass_ has joined. 13:41:46 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:06:40 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:31:02 Man my perceptron converges values all to 0.5 :( 14:31:10 What went wrooong 14:34:00 it doesn't care 14:35:54 It learned the truth 14:37:44 The problem isn't from the learning rate and inertia apparently 14:38:18 For some reason all my weights converge to 0 14:39:18 It's that Stephen King book all over again 14:48:31 slereah, i thought you were shachaf for quite a long time 14:48:38 plz. recapitalise your nick 14:49:02 It is. 14:56:48 phantom's right 14:57:56 slereah may not be upper cased 14:57:58 But Slereah_ is 14:58:01 -!- `^_^v has left ("Leaving"). 14:58:05 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:02:04 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:03:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:04:26 if all weights are converging to zero does that just mean it's learning a constant function 15:04:41 I'm trying to make an autoencoder 15:04:52 So the training set is just the identity function 15:05:03 Currently the input is just (1 2 3 4 5) 15:05:27 And I'm trying to get the same as output 15:05:50 But for some reason weights all decrease with each update until they're all 0 15:06:08 "Reading an embargoed paper that cites 71 papers in the first two sentences." 15:06:17 well, that sounds like a bug probably /helpful 15:07:06 You don't sa 15:07:06 y 15:10:31 Are you doing it all DIY, or with some sort of a thing? 15:12:28 A Thing indeed 15:12:32 internship thing 15:12:39 Oh wait 15:12:45 Do you mean coded from scratch 15:12:48 Then yes 15:13:02 Though I did look at a few libraries of it before 15:17:53 Right, right, that just makes bug-in-the-implementation the likelier reason than doing-it-wrong. 15:18:11 Well doing it wrong is still on the table 15:18:34 I guess maybe I should do a very simple one 15:18:44 2 in, 2 out, 1 hidden neurone 15:22:18 can you do an identity map if everything has to go through one neuron...? 15:22:55 Dunno 15:23:09 Hm 15:23:29 It's unfortunate that there are no step by step examples of the backpropagation algorithm 15:23:34 I could check where it went wrong 15:25:46 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:31:47 Bike: It should at least do a credible approximation, anyway, as long as things work out. 15:33:15 Autoencoder features are quite "hip" at the moment in the speech recognition field. 15:33:25 how would it distinguish, like, 01 from 10 15:33:38 Bike : different weights? 15:34:17 The hidden neuron outputs one bit, doesn't it? How do you encode two bits into one bit 15:35:00 Bike: It's not usually binary; but in any case, by having first output equal to the hidden bit, and the second its complement. 15:35:07 Bike: That way 0 -> 01 and 1 -> 10. 15:35:21 but then you couldn't also do 00 and 11. 15:35:28 The network has real values and real weights 15:35:31 Neural networks can output any real number 15:35:52 Bike: Sure, sure; but it's supposed to learn the "best" low-dimensional representation it can. 15:36:14 You interpret the number if you want a classifier 15:36:50 okay i guess i thought after the sigmoid you had a binary threshhold. oopsie. 15:37:26 The sigmoid is used to introduce nonlinearity (and to compress outputs between layers) 15:38:52 http://jmlr.org/papers/volume11/vincent10a/vincent10a.pdf is the kind of thing people do on speech too. 15:39:37 (Have to go do some things.) 15:40:00 l8er 15:44:37 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:52:05 -!- tertu has joined. 15:55:00 -!- mekeor has joined. 15:55:54 -!- ^v has joined. 15:59:21 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:00:13 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:01:49 Today I got a free hat 16:08:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:09:08 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 16:27:26 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:27:54 -!- ^v has joined. 16:28:41 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:36:34 so I've got a fun little thing. variables can only hold random bits. You can set a variable to the result of xoring or averageing other variables together. Print prints out the name of the variable that most closely matches the chunk of bits coming after it. 16:37:03 the control structures are "label" and "call" but procedures do not accept arguments 16:38:06 So, just xor all variables with themselves 16:38:14 call calls the chunk of code labeled with the most similar chunk of bits to the one its called with 16:38:24 yes 0 is easy to get 16:38:49 but 0 doesn't do anything special 16:39:31 Ok, so what is special 16:40:15 you can holographically store values in other values 16:40:36 using xor to make a pair and averaging to combine several pairs 16:44:05 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:45:33 I'm pretty sure it isn't turing complete because you can only store a finite amount of information in an anonymous value 16:45:47 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:12:57 What sort of ternary operations would be useful for a ternary computer? 17:13:18 I was thinking tritwise max would be a rough equivalent of OR 17:13:19 FreeFull: all the trintercal ones? 17:13:31 wait... useful? 17:13:38 =P 17:14:40 dunno, I'd rather stick to binary (with two's complement or one's complement, and fibonacci and negafibonacci) 17:16:07 But ternary is the easiest way to render a sierpinski carpet to the screen 17:17:46 there are 3^9 different two argument ternary operators 17:18:13 but yeah, max and min seem useful 17:18:30 so that's one operation then, the sierpinsky operation: 222;202;222. For the other, addition, perhaps? 17:19:29 Not going the balanced ternary route? (In which case multiplication is I guess quite a natural one.) 17:19:53 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:20:20 you could try creating random ternary circuts out of a selection of ternary gates and see which set seems to produce the remainder of the gates most fairly 17:25:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:33:59 A single binary operation has many ternary equivalents 17:34:18 Tritwise multiplication and tritwise min are both equivalents of AND 17:42:15 what's a minimal basis for all ternary operations? 17:45:12 "A single two-input ternary operator and a single one-input ternary operator are proposed, which together with the logic values 1 and 2 form a functionally-complete set of ternary operators." 17:46:08 Tokmen, V. H. "A functionally-complete ternary system", Electronic Letters, Feb 1978, 14(3), pp. 69-71, http://dx.doi.org/10.1049/el:19780048 17:46:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:47:48 The two-input operator it mentions is the {max(a, b) if a != b; 0 if a = b} one, and the unary operator is the {2 if a = 0; 0 if a != 0} one. 17:48:13 no zero? nice 17:48:34 That's just the unary operator applied to 1 or 2, after all. 17:48:50 You don't need 0 for binary logic, either 17:49:17 yeah, i still like it 17:49:41 0 is nothing compared to 1 17:49:41 "The particular merit of the above operators is their ease of realisation in bipolar or m.o.s., technology." 17:49:59 -!- shikhin has changed nick to draumr. 17:50:04 The two-input operator is called the TOR, short for "Ternary exclusive-OR". 17:51:08 Also the notation is quite funky. TOR is denoted by a τ b, and the unary one by ⁰a⁰ of all things. 17:51:18 Sorry, that's ⁰(a)⁰. 17:51:31 The teddy ears operator 17:51:44 I'm sure it'll catch on 17:53:09 too cute not to 17:53:47 -!- draumr has changed nick to shikhin. 17:54:20 I wonder if they ever realised it in bipolar or m.o.s. technology. 17:54:38 Apparently it's a friend of ¹(a)¹ and ²(a)² -- the number denotes what a must be to get the value 2. 17:54:52 -!- nortti has changed nick to hvidie. 17:56:00 -!- hvidie has changed nick to nortti. 17:59:33 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:02:17 Whose idea it was anyway to make it unclear whether calling something a "binary operator" (resp. a ternary operator) means that it takes two (resp. three) inputs or that it has two (resp. three) states for those inputs? 18:05:24 huh. i don't think i've heard the latter. until um, just now. 18:05:45 whose idea was it that the term "special case" should have two opposite meanings 18:07:06 kmc: http://nlab.mathforge.org/nlab/show/red%20herring%20principle 18:07:17 "The mathematical red herring principle is the principle that in mathematics, a “red herring” need not, in general, be either red or a herring." 18:08:02 The "two-input ternary operator" was an instance of the latter use. 18:08:20 And this other "Ternary Exclusive Or" is an instance of the former. 18:08:59 Taneb: what kind of hat did you get for free; also how? 18:09:03 (It's just a boolean logic connective that's true iff exactly one of its three inputs is true.) 18:09:05 `coins 18:09:07 mopocoin relyknitiationcoin hairequitcoin pingbraicoin liheidifycoin rpecoin bdallcoin duplycoin rubeofthecoin pcoin buggonaltcoin peracoin claimcoin aftgreurochesecoin festcoin selectpcoin hercoin wildcoin obfurlocoin mckecoin 18:09:19 fi:mopo == en:moped. 18:09:31 rubeofthecoin 18:09:53 duplycoin doesn't even try to prevent double-spending. 18:10:49 kmc, some form of knit cap 18:12:04 Huh, I didn't even know the next Ubuntu was going to be the "Trusty Tahr" and now it's released. 18:12:50 I hope ubuntu dies after Zebra 18:12:58 If for no other reason 18:13:30 The development code name page already goes up to 20.04 that will start with F; they just loop around. 18:13:42 The one where they list suggestions, that is. 18:14:39 The U names sound p. stupid. 18:52:44 -!- mekeor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:54:16 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:55:37 fizzie: no, duplycoin is like the treasure in Bellatrix Lestrange's vault in Gringotts: it's enchanted so that when you touch it it produces duplicates that look similar but are worthless, and also glow hot 18:56:48 i've said it before but they should loop around with fungi next 18:57:21 Ascendent Amanita, Beautiful Bolete, Charming Chanterelle 18:58:34 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:00:03 -!- xpte has joined. 19:02:06 kmc: good idea. then bacteria, then plants after that. 19:04:20 -!- vravn has joined. 19:07:55 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 19:15:10 delicious dekkera, esoteric ergot, faithful flammulina, glistening ganoderma, happy hypholoma, intriguing inocybe, jovial jelly, keen kuehneromyces 19:22:33 leafy laetiporus, magnificent morel, noble neolentinus, omniscient omphalotus, pleasing pleurotus, quixotic queletia, rustic russula 19:22:51 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:28:18 `olist (949) 19:28:18 olist (949): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti 19:30:22 superb saccharomyces, tasty truffle, unctuous urnula, vernal velvet-foot, wonderful wine-cap, xenodochial xylaria 19:30:30 i'll get back to you on y and z 19:30:46 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:31:26 i have no idea if velvet foot mushrooms actually grow in the spring; also it's the same critter as flammulina 19:33:28 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:34:26 -!- jix has joined. 19:41:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:45:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:45:01 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 19:45:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:46:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:51:42 loveable lactobacillus 19:56:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:58:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:58:25 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 20:17:31 http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=CHICKEN 20:25:36 [wiki] [[Hollang]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39347 * Doesthiswork * (+2349) new holographic language 20:26:22 [wiki] [[Hollang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39348&oldid=39347 * Doesthiswork * (+2) 20:31:09 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 20:34:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:39:23 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 20:39:39 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:41:14 `8-ball 20:41:15 Concentrate and ask again. 20:41:19 'k 20:43:26 http://opensslrampage.org/post/83019384273/ok-there-was-a-need-for-openssl-cleanse-instead all your favorite drama, now in tumblr form 20:43:40 what the hell @ hollang 20:59:38 -!- adu has joined. 21:09:33 ok i'm loving this, i looked up what OPENSSL_malloc is 21:09:37 OPENSSL_malloc is a macro that expands to a call to CRYPTO_malloc, which calls a function pointer. the default value of that function pointer is a function that calls another function pointer. the default value of /that/ function pointer is, finally, malloc. 21:10:34 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 21:11:19 Bike: are you sure there's not one too many levels of funptr indirection there...? 21:11:25 I'd... be surprised but not surprised enough 21:11:48 yes. the outer function pointer is "malloc_ex_func" which is like malloc but takes __LINE__ and __FILE__ 21:12:03 nice. 21:12:40 see, the whole purpose for this is that if nothing's been allocated yet, you (as in you, outside the library) can call a function to switch all these pointers to something else 21:13:01 that's actually useful sometimes, for what it's worth 21:13:03 gmp offers it too 21:13:20 BECAUSE LIBC MALLOC IS TOO SLOW 21:14:47 hm does mercurial's web interface let you grep code or no 21:17:22 p[-1] = (0xdeadbeef << 31) + 0xdeafdeed; <-- nifty (in gmp) 21:17:53 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 21:19:36 Why would they shift a 32-bit number by 31 bites 21:19:47 I must be hungry 21:19:54 s/es/s 21:21:27 it could be 64 bits 21:21:35 it's aprt of a debug section 21:21:58 or 36 21:22:10 (to quote another popular value ;-) ) 21:22:17 0xdeadbeef is a 32-bit constant 21:22:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:23:33 it's an int 21:23:57 so you don't know how many bits it has from the compiler's perspective 21:24:52 libpng has a compile-time option (PNG_USER_MEM_SUPPORTED) that lets you switch around the memory allocation functions. 21:25:03 Unless that's in the cray mpn code or something, it's going to be a 32-bit unsigned int 21:27:08 And GMP has at least reasonable chances of running on such a thing, compared to many other pieces of code. 21:27:44 Yes, I know there is cray mpn code (and probably people still using it) 21:31:53 https://gmplib.org/repo/gmp/file/55ff6b8d9a92/memory.c#l130 i come bearing context 21:32:36 Well, that's curious. 21:32:39 I guess it's probably what it is for no particular reason 21:33:04 Since mp_ptr is an mp_limb_t *, and quite often mp_limb_t is unsigned long instead. 21:33:16 It's repeated a dozen times, though, and you'd think it'd be a macro at that point 21:34:08 Would presumably make sense to convert the constants to mp_limb_t. 21:35:45 Yes, it looks like a "bug" 21:38:18 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 21:39:44 Also I believe it's possibly undefined behaviour on a system where int is larger than 32 bits but smaller than 64. 21:40:44 Is it? The shift is valid as long as unsigned int is 32-bit or larger. 21:40:59 But the type of an unsuffixed hex constant 0xdeadbeef is signed int if it can represent the value. 21:41:19 Huh, evil. 21:41:22 And E1 << E2, when E1 has a signed type, is undefined if E1 * 2^E2 is not representable in the result type. 21:45:30 It's also kind of nasty, the way the types of integer literals changed from C89 to C99. 21:46:19 I mean, I'm sure they had to, thanks to the introduction of long long. But there used to be a "fallback" option for also unsuffixed decimal constants to end up as "unsigned long" if they were too long for a long. 21:48:02 http://sprunge.us/SCIF and so on. 21:48:28 This is why I always cast numeric values before doing anything weird with them 21:48:29 Also the silliest messages, __int128 is not unsigned. 21:53:55 Fun fact: C89 (or at least the "ansi.c.txt" draft that keeps circulating around) does not seem to really define E1 << E2 at all if E1 is signed. 21:54:25 "The result of E1 << E2 is E1 left-shifted E2 bit positions; vacated bits are filled with zeros. If E1 has an unsigned type, the value of the result is E1 multiplied by the quantity, 2 raised to the power E2, reduced modulo ULONG_MAX+1 if E1 has type unsigned long, UINT_MAX+1 otherwise. (The constants ULONG_MAX and UINT_MAX are defined in the header .)" 21:54:34 That's all it says on the topic of left shifts. 21:55:52 (C99 adds the "if signed type and nonnegative value and E1*2^E2 is representable" sentence.) 21:56:43 http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_081.html apparently it was entirely implementation-defined for C89. 21:56:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:02:30 "There is an ongoing discussion about what privacy means and if it is still needed. Some tracks differ from the versions on the albums listed. It was a tremendous success and marked the beginning of Italian operatic dominance north of the Alps." 22:02:49 Nice spam-filter avoidance header, I even thought it was something sane at first. 22:04:11 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:05:31 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:06:22 fungot, do you write spam subject lines 22:06:23 Jafet: the honourable member will be aware that all eurocontrol does is coordinate flights a priori. we are also acknowledging that this parliament sends the message that i would not be accepted by the council last week, when we discuss matters such as pay and conditions in a coastal area into account when drawing up the olive sector, the communal services, the commission generally agrees with. 22:07:37 i can believe that would avoid some filters. 22:07:49 The concerning thing, mr president, is that we are at more-or-less the point where fungot can speak more coherently than some healthy adults 22:07:49 Jafet: mr president, i agree with you in mind. amendments nos 84 and 85 on reviewing the priority list do not allow the commission to take due account of the particular problem arising from the strategies will be adopted today in the role of the court of justice in the fnord session of the parliament, to support the airlines in their country. 22:08:28 Jafet: this can be fixed by redefining healthy again hth 22:08:35 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 22:08:48 If you hit them in the head, they are no longer healthy 22:09:38 i imagine the fnord session of the parliament is where they discuss the secret illuminati stuff. 22:10:39 ActiveX components enable you to display ActiveX controls in your GUI. They are available only on the Microsoft® Windows® platform. 22:11:29 Are you doing MATLAB®™ there? 22:11:53 yes 22:12:02 wondering if i should bother figuring out how to grey out a textbox 22:12:13 hm there are symbols for trademarks and copyrights, is there one for patents 22:12:38 oerjan: U+1F4A9 hth 22:12:55 `unicode U+1F4A9 22:12:56 Unknown character. 22:13:08 NOPE 22:13:23 `cat bin/unicode 22:13:24 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ # -*- encoding: utf-8 -*- \ import re \ import sys \ import unicodedata \ def l(c): m = re.match('(?:U+)?([0-9a-f]{1,5})$', c, re.I); return unicodedata.lookup(c) if m is None else unichr(int(m.group(1),16)) \ try: \ print u''.join(map(l, sys.argv[1:])).encode('utf-8') \ except KeyError: \ print u'Unknown characte 22:13:45 Oh. 22:13:48 Unescaped + 22:13:54 Shows how well I test these things. 22:14:10 Not just the standard unicode executable? 22:14:24 `run sed -i 's/U[+]/U[+]/' bin/unicode 22:14:26 No output. 22:14:31 `unicode U+1F4A9 22:14:32 ​💩 22:14:33 uh this is #esoteric, _sir_ 22:14:42 wow owned. good one 22:15:07 `unidecode 💩 22:15:08 ​[U+1F4A9 DUNNO] 22:15:08 python isn't very esoteric (below 100 lines, at least) 22:15:29 Incidentally, that character describes these programs also 22:15:40 `cat bin/unidecode 22:15:41 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ import unicodedata \ print u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") 22:15:58 It's all up to the version of Python unicodedata that's installed there. 22:16:10 `python --version 22:16:10 Python 2.7.3 22:16:29 At least we've got it out of UCS-2 nowadays; it was stuck in that for ages. 22:16:58 `run python -c $'import unicodedata\nprint unicodedata.unidata_version' 22:16:59 5.2.0 22:17:47 So close. 22:18:07 -!- Melvar has joined. 22:18:10 "To add an image to a push button or toggle button, assign the button's CData property an m-by-n-by-3 array of RGB values that defines RGB (Truecolor) Images." 22:18:22 oerjan: In case you don't feel like looking it up, it was just PILE OF POO. 22:19:16 well that was obvious once i could see it properly; putty only displayed the left part 22:20:20 Also, stalker mode has stopped eworking for me. 22:20:47 "You can extend the file types that the open command recognizes to include any file having a three-character extension. Do this by creating a MATLAB code file with the name openxyz.m. xyz is the file extension for the type of files to be handled. Do not, however, take this approach for opening FIG-files, because openfig.m is a MATLAB function which is needed to open GUIs." 22:20:51 I thought it was just something with the Android tablet's browser, but it doesn't seem better on this desktop either. 22:20:52 good system. 22:21:10 It keeps on scrolling and blinking. 22:24:57 -!- adu has joined. 22:27:21 * oerjan doesn't use stalker mode anyway. 22:28:43 -!- tromp has joined. 22:30:10 blah >>= flip when $ do ... <-- the precedences are wrong for that to work. 22:30:31 @tell Sgeo blah >>= flip when $ do ... <-- the precedences are wrong for that to work. 22:30:31 Consider it noted. 22:30:46 wtf is Sgeo not here 22:31:17 :t return True >>= do flip when $ Just () 22:31:18 Maybe () 22:31:21 hth 22:31:43 um 22:32:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:32:43 fancy use of do 22:32:54 :t do flip when $ Just () 22:32:55 Bool -> Maybe () 22:33:02 > Just $ 5 :: Int 22:33:04 Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Int’ 22:33:04 with actual type ‘Data.Maybe.Maybe s0’ 22:33:05 > Just $ do 5 :: Int 22:33:07 Just 5 22:33:17 just do int 22:33:32 hm i'm not sure if the last one is portable 22:33:55 Portable to what 22:34:00 is do with just one expression guaranteed to work if the expression doesn't have monadic type 22:34:01 hugs obviously 22:34:08 also uhc 22:34:08 oerjan: yes IIRC 22:34:22 elliott: in the report? 22:34:42 yes IIRC 22:34:48 the desugaring doesn't talk about types I think 22:34:53 only that it uses Prelude return/(>>=) 22:34:58 i guess if so then you actually _can_ use do as a general-purpose precedence fixer, huh 22:36:35 `file /usr/share/unicode/unicodeData.txt 22:36:35 ​/usr/share/unicode/unicodeData.txt: ERROR: cannot open `/usr/share/unicode/unicodeData.txt' (No such file or directory) 22:36:38 `file /usr/share/unicode/UnicodeData.txt 22:36:39 ​/usr/share/unicode/UnicodeData.txt: ERROR: cannot open `/usr/share/unicode/UnicodeData.txt' (No such file or directory) 22:36:46 `lsb_release -a 22:36:47 No LSB modules are available. \ Distributor ID:Debian \ Description:Debian GNU/Linux \ Release:n/a \ Codename:n/a 22:38:07 kind of a boring codename 22:38:11 @run do let x = 5; x+2 22:38:13 :1:18: 22:38:13 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 22:38:23 @run do let {x = 5}; x+2 22:38:25 7 22:39:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:39:39 sadly the brackets are needed there 22:39:56 n/a is a rock that andy picked up on the way home. He hasn't named it yet. 22:40:17 haskell needs more guillemets 22:49:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:49 https://packages.debian.org/sid/unicode-screensaver 22:51:03 I wonder if it does the emoji block 22:53:59 `fetch http://sources.debian.net/data/main/u/unicode/0.9.7/unicode 22:54:03 2014-04-17 22:53:59 URL:http://sources.debian.net/data/main/u/unicode/0.9.7/unicode [26623/26623] -> "unicode" [1] 22:56:39 `fetch http://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt 22:56:41 2014-04-17 22:56:37 URL:http://ftp.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt [1367023/1367023] -> "UnicodeData.txt" [1] 22:56:49 Wonder how long this will ta.. nevermind. 22:57:32 `run mv bin/unicode{,.old} && mv unicode UnicodeData.txt bin && chmod +x bin/unicode 22:57:34 No output. 22:57:47 `unicode U+1F4A9 22:57:47 U+1F4A9 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 a9 UTF-16BE: d83ddca9 Decimal: 💩 \ 💩 (💩) \ Uppercase: U+1F4A9 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) 22:57:56 o kay 23:00:29 `run sed -i 's,\./UnicodeData\.txt,/hackenv/UnicodeData.txt,' && unicode U+1F4A9 23:00:30 sed: no input files 23:00:38 `run sed -i 's,\./UnicodeData\.txt,/hackenv/UnicodeData.txt,' bin/unicode && unicode U+1F4A9 23:00:40 U+1F4A9 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 a9 UTF-16BE: d83ddca9 Decimal: 💩 \ 💩 (💩) \ Uppercase: U+1F4A9 \ Category: Cn (Other, Not Assigned) 23:01:22 `unicode U+1F4A9 23:01:23 U+1F4A9 PILE OF POO \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 a9 UTF-16BE: d83ddca9 Decimal: 💩 \ 💩 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 23:01:31 Maybe that needs to be trimmed. 23:02:29 `unicode PILE OF POO 23:02:30 U+1F4A9 PILE OF POO \ UTF-8: f0 9f 92 a9 UTF-16BE: d83ddca9 Decimal: 💩 \ 💩 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) 23:03:04 oh well i guess it contains all the information needed 23:03:53 `file bin/unicode 23:03:54 bin/unicode: Python script, ASCII text executable 23:16:24 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 23:16:24 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:16:33 -!- tromp has joined. 23:18:43 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:21:47 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39349 * Zerk * (+225) Created page with "Could you clarify "holographically embed them into variables"? How does averaging two bitstrings work, some operation between an ''and'' and an ''or''?--~~~~" 23:22:39 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:35:31 "EXIT() is really exit(), a gentle surprise but… OPENSSL_EXIT() is really just return()" 23:39:37 -!- ^v has joined. 23:40:08 -!- adu has joined. 23:49:52 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:52:55 -!- adu has joined. 2014-04-18: 00:00:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: No route to host). 00:00:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:03:18 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:05:42 kmc: it exits openssl for libc 00:05:51 ? 00:05:57 exit through the gift shop 00:06:33 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:07:43 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 00:09:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:11:44 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:14:49 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:15:36 Someday I will understand why every C library abstracts standard everything through four layers of macrology, or rather I won't, because I ain't trying 00:16:04 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:21:57 is it in the name of portability to systems nobody has used since before most members of this channel were born? 00:22:52 to be fair, many members in this channel have probably used obscure systems older than them. 00:26:07 Obscure systems, like autoconf 00:28:14 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 00:28:36 obscure systems, like IRC 00:28:51 (well, i'm older than IRC but presumably many here aren't) 00:30:52 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:31:02 It's not even 26 years old. 00:31:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:33:54 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:35:16 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:35:29 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 00:35:47 kmc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byp_x2be8C8 00:36:25 o_O 00:37:32 I wonder who the target demographic of that ad is :P 00:37:43 "meet me at the giant mushroom" 00:38:12 kmc, obviously 00:38:13 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:39:22 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:40:08 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 00:41:30 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:42:39 Would OverlappingInstances be ok if we had typeclasses that were closed? 00:43:38 -!- MoALTz has joined. 00:43:45 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:43:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:45:24 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 00:46:18 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:47:03 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:48:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:49:55 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:56:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 00:57:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:14:24 -!- MoALTz has joined. 01:15:40 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:30:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:32:11 -!- tromp has joined. 01:56:32 -!- shikhout has joined. 01:59:20 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:59:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 02:11:17 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39350&oldid=39349 * Doesthiswork * (+474) 02:21:04 [wiki] [[Hollang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39351&oldid=39348 * Doesthiswork * (+5) 02:23:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 02:27:52 what is the current bot percentage 02:31:01 > 9/86 02:31:03 0.10465116279069768 02:31:25 one bot left, but the channel also shrank a bit otherwise 02:31:44 and we can count myndzi in a pinch 02:31:54 I'm glad to hear that the invarient holds 02:33:09 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 02:33:21 ah it's back 02:33:27 > 10/86 02:33:28 0.11627906976744186 : Float 02:33:29 0.11627906976744186 02:33:44 you mean 87 02:33:49 oh right 02:33:54 ( 10/87 02:33:54 0.11494252873563218 : Float 02:34:35 what percentage of the bots can answer this question? 02:34:55 and of course there might be bots we don't know about 02:35:18 fungot: answer nooodl's question please 02:35:18 oerjan: mr president, in the last instance by the directorate-general for personnel, you share the commission's satisfaction with the support of this house. 02:35:51 1 down, 9 to go 02:39:21 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has changed nick to Patashu_. 02:39:24 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 02:39:42 fungot: 10/87 02:39:42 lexande: mr president, on such a basis. i think no one would take it seriously and do not fall within the scope of objective 1, we cannot tell you anything more at present. 02:39:58 @ 10/87 02:40:04 `? 10/87 02:40:05 10/87? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 02:40:45 ^prefixes 02:40:45 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-ircslave ( , jconn ) , blsqbot ! 02:40:50 ) 10%87 02:40:50 nooodl: 0.114943 02:44:59 ! 10/87 02:45:09 10/87 02:45:22 ( 10/87 02:45:23 0.11494252873563218 : Float 02:45:31 woops already done 02:45:54 ` 10/87 02:45:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 02:46:21 + 10/87 02:46:30 ~ 10/87 02:46:36 thutubot isn't usually here. 02:46:46 metasepia is only when boily is. 02:47:23 `runpython print 10/87 02:47:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: runpython: not found 02:47:33 hm i thought there was a command like that 02:47:47 `run python -c 'print 10/87' 02:47:47 0 02:47:54 `run python -c 'print 10.0/87' 02:47:55 0.114942528736 02:48:12 !python print 10.0/87 02:48:15 0.114942528736 02:49:11 getting fungot to calculate that is going to take some work. 02:49:12 oerjan: mr president, the purpose of our action could not be settled through the consultation procedure in this case of seven years, and that is after cooperation between the usa and to which our response can no longer be ruled out that any such transports do not allow us to be able to take into account what opinions are prevalent in the committee on women’s rights and the proper criteria for selecting the companies to be ins 02:50:03 ^ul (0.114942528736)S(although we can cheat a bit more) 02:50:03 0.114942528736 02:50:04 mr president, i don't like you, ♫ YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO ROCK ♫ 02:57:45 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 02:58:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:58:40 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 02:58:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:59:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:01:34 -!- nisstyre has quit (Client Quit). 03:22:50 fungot: do you know how to rock 03:22:51 kmc: madam president, i have taken on serious proportions. to dismiss these arguments with the other institutions to the concept of fixed controls with that of the impact of liberalising the energy markets on the consumer to pay for energy and transport policies is to be in favour of the previous explanation of vote in this budget process. three issues stand out, namely that there is a whole package of measures represents a goo 03:23:12 `addquote kmc: madam president, i have taken on serious proportions. 03:23:12 kmc: madam president, the marinho report, which gives priority to research and partly to the many members who are deeply concerned about the absence of any further scientific progress. 03:23:14 1185) kmc: madam president, i have taken on serious proportions. 03:23:42 fungot: i'll show you my package of measures 03:23:43 kmc: madam president, it gives us the greatest concern to us all imperative that we do not get left behind in relation to compliance with the fundamental principle of maintaining a capitalist system in which there is much talk of the collapse in the near future 03:24:03 that seems like a pretty shoddy fundament, not gonna lie 03:24:06 hahaha 03:24:11 that last one is gold 03:24:21 purestrain gold 03:27:41 http://opensslrampage.org/post/83007010531/well-even-if-time-isnt-random-your-rsa-private-key 03:28:33 "There are no plans to ever build this with the Metrojerks compiler." 03:29:27 During the 1990s, Apple Computer released a monthly series of developer CD-ROMs containing resources for programming the Macintosh. These CDs were, in the early days, whimsically titled using punning references to various movies but with a coding twist; for example, "The Hexorcist" (The Exorcist), "Lord of the Files" (Lord of the Flies), "Gorillas in the Disc" (Gorillas in the Mist), etc. 03:29:49 -!- MoALTz has joined. 03:30:05 holy shit the stratus thing 03:30:34 just in case your i386 converts 03:30:49 «Most will argue that x86_64 is always little-endian. Well, yes, but then we have stratus.com who has modified gcc to "emulate" big-endian on x86. Is there evidence that they [or somebody else] won't do same for x86_64? Naturally no.» 03:31:17 "so anyway that's why we're supporting architectures that don't exist" 03:31:42 brought to you buy the people who brought you heartbeats for tcp 03:33:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:34:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:35:23 "As snprintf is not available everywhere, we provide our own implementation." 03:36:32 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libssl/src/crypto/bio/b_print.c?rev=1.18;content-type=text%2Fplain this is... actually a printf implementation, isn't it 03:39:39 it prints into a BIO, so its not really "printf" per se 03:39:52 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:40:16 oh there's a BIO_snprintf too 03:40:55 strncpy(d, s, strlen(s)), also good 03:42:59 i've seen that more times than you'd think :( 03:43:48 nice 'n' safe 03:45:01 -!- adu has joined. 03:52:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:52:58 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/23a8bf/openssl_valhalla_rampage_documenting_the_humorous/cgvbfch?context=1 03:53:14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQU22Ttpwc SSL theme song 03:58:53 "A technical argument by a trusted author, which 03:58:53 is hard to check and looks similar to arguments known to be correct, is hardly ever 03:58:56 checked in detail." 04:00:52 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39352&oldid=39350 * Zerk * (+170) 04:02:58 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39353&oldid=39352 * Zerk * (+1) 04:07:10 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39354&oldid=39353 * Doesthiswork * (+191) 04:07:32 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39355&oldid=39354 * Doesthiswork * (+6) 04:09:52 on coq and mathematics and getting mistakes out of proofs: http://www.math.ias.edu/~vladimir/Site3/Univalent_Foundations_files/2014_IAS.pdf 04:10:26 was that posted here recently? I remeber reading that a couple days ago 04:12:09 is this the coq's C being undefined business 04:12:12 dont know 04:12:18 no, not about coq's C. 04:12:55 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:13:11 -!- tromp has joined. 04:16:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:16:27 must be pretty great thinking you can prove things 04:16:54 would prob not be worth being a mathematician if you thought you couldnt 04:17:49 and thankfully I am not. 04:18:48 How can coq's (compcert's?) C be undefined 04:19:48 Jafet: beats me http://blog.regehr.org/archives/903 04:20:42 the bottom has coqchk's rather than coqtop's. 04:21:25 Ah, the runtime issue 04:21:34 regehr is being a sensationalist as usual 04:21:56 "Therefore someone who wanted to get to the bottom of things in mathematics had a simpleroad to follow - learn what Predicate Logic is, then learn a particular theory called ZFC, thenlearn how to translate propositions about a few basic mathematical concepts into formulas ofZFC, and then learn to believe, through examples, that the rest of mathematics can be reducedto these few basic concepts. " lol 04:22:02 not very sensationalist, have you seen what clang does with UB 04:22:17 still, you'd prob want to hold coq to a high standard 04:22:24 I mean, you might as well bitch that the hardware has bugs (it does) 04:22:27 i wonder if any of those issues are in the important core of coq 04:22:30 "Now we come to the important question: Is Coq's validity threatened? The short answer is that this seems unlikely." yeah i can see how you'd read this and think it's sensationalist 04:22:34 or if they're all in stuff thats "untrusted" anyway 04:22:34 but these are not compiler bugs 04:22:43 at least, the compiler writers wouldn't agree they are, and nor would the C committee 04:22:49 Bike: "coq's C is undefined" 04:22:50 and they actually break things in practice, so...? 04:23:05 come the fuck on 04:23:09 that string appears nowhere on the linked page 04:23:13 not all of coq needs to be correct to be trustworthy 04:23:22 unless you believe Bike is regehr 04:23:31 This is C code in ocaml or its runtime, so who knows, probably most C code in ocaml is used at some point or other 04:23:36 too busy poking flies to be regehr, thankfully 04:23:56 Ok, regehr does say: "This output means that Coq---via OCaml---is executing a number of C's undefined behaviors before it even asks for any input from the user. The problem with undefined behaviors is that, according to the standard, they destroy the meaning of the program that executes them." 04:24:16 are there any more trustworthy versions of ocaml? 04:24:18 regehr's other posts are equally colourful 04:24:32 you have really sad standards for color 04:24:34 I think there are projects to do verified runtimes of ocaml and/or sml 04:25:06 so you just have to rerun your coq proof on a trusted ocaml once to verify that the c langauge didnt ruin your picnic 04:25:11 There was a paper on verified bignum libraries for x86 04:25:19 tbh his blog is incredibly dry and even-handed by any standards I can think of, have you ever seen most programming blogs 04:25:32 When you are verifying to this standard, by the way, the C standard is irrelevant 04:25:43 fwiw, the cpu your computer is running on is also flawed 04:25:45 You check the compiler of ocaml itself, and the generated machine code 04:25:50 luckily it mostly does the right thing 04:25:52 i think regehr probably thinks so too! 04:25:55 Compilers don't implement the C standard, either 04:26:22 jafet: i heard some C compilers were even written before the language standard existed! 04:26:38 there's not an implication of "coq is totally wrong" from "haha, unsigned shifts" unless you have really bizarre ideas about math 04:27:09 bike: there seems to be an underlying "you cnat prove things" theme though in your discussion 04:27:09 I heard some C compilers wrote the standard 04:27:28 newsham: in mine yeah. i don't think it's what regehr means though. 04:28:07 Also, I'm only reading past the first few paragraphs of regehr's post now 04:28:23 also in a practical sense, you can use lots of compiler flags on a modern compiler to make those undefined operations do what the human thought they did 04:28:46 for the most part (not always.. some of it is inherent in the translation to hardware ops.. like shifting more than 32 bits on a 32 bit cpu...) 04:28:58 and there are people who have been studying the effects of undefined C ops 04:29:04 troll first, actually read things later 04:30:19 great fun http://people.csail.mit.edu/nickolai/papers/wang-undef.pdf 04:31:51 "The third component 04:31:51 is a structure that enables humans to encode 04:31:51 mathematical ideas in terms of the objects directly associated with the 04:31:53 http://people.csail.mit.edu/nickolai/papers/wang-stack.pdf has a nice table showing diff compilers and optimization levels 04:31:54 language. " er sorry 04:32:03 anyway that's an interesting way of seeing how people think 04:32:51 maybe someone can run this STACK tool on ocaml and fix the compiler 04:33:04 is this related to fuck shit stacks 04:33:13 It's stacks all the way down 04:33:25 Also, libc bugs 04:33:28 put some fuckshit, stack it on top of itself. that's ocaml 04:35:57 I kind of wish I was still writing fancy SSE code so I could finally port it to AVX on my Haswell CPU. 04:36:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:36:57 http://newbrict.github.io/Fe26/ 04:39:02 triple alpha continues to be suffering 04:40:01 http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/448ea0eae861248df6710920c23f167647f487ca 04:41:36 digital crime and forensic science in cyberspace 04:42:40 `thanks magnesium 04:42:40 Thanks, magnesium. Thagnesium. 04:42:56 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:43:01 i completely agree ;_; 04:44:04 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1634/stemcells.2008-0184/abstract meanwhile in science 04:50:45 "Retraction notice ‘that is, the text supplied by Legal’." 04:52:09 it's nice to see the scientific method in all its wonderful detail, isn't it 04:53:45 this one is interesting http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/0179d4e553d5f01de48877acefd1ebc795e2ce0a 04:54:00 "goto err; i = -1; .... err: return i;" 04:56:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:09:11 http://www.aliendovecote.com/uploads/twine/sauna.html 05:11:11 * copumpkin inserts USB into kilobyte 05:11:29 https://www.dropbox.com/s/5bptf82xl4h0y52/Screenshot%202014-04-18%2001.11.25.png 05:12:04 -!- MoALTz has joined. 05:14:05 that was 05:14:07 unusual 05:14:35 good point. 05:16:08 "NOTE: Don't expect any of these programs to work with current OpenSSL releases, or even with later SSLeay releases. 05:16:13 but still in the src tree... 05:16:19 its like an append-only log 05:17:34 What are 'these programs'? 05:18:04 these: http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/eadb750b87b4a90c1284f6361d6c3ea6d6e26f66 05:21:05 `run unicode 1234 12345 4321 05:21:07 U+1234 ETHIOPIC SYLLABLE SEE \ UTF-8: e1 88 b4 UTF-16BE: 1234 Decimal: ሴ \ ሴ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+12345 CUNEIFORM SIGN URU TIMES KI \ UTF-8: f0 92 8d 85 UTF-16BE: d808df45 Decimal: 𒍅 \ 𒍅 \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+4321 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-4321 \ 05:21:20 It's a bit long if you want to do several. 05:21:45 But I guess the extra info is nice too. 05:22:42 `run unicode -s foo 05:22:43 U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F \ UTF-8: 66 UTF-16BE: 0066 Decimal: f \ f (F) \ Uppercase: U+0046 \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O \ UTF-8: 6f UTF-16BE: 006f Decimal: o \ o (O) \ Uppercase: U+004F \ Category: Ll (Letter, Lowercase) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+006F LATIN SMA 05:22:52 That just won't do at all for a `unidecode replacement, however. 05:40:47 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 05:44:03 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:44:52 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 05:56:53 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 05:57:40 -!- ^v has joined. 05:58:00 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:59:19 http://cybertiggyr.com/babbage.html 06:02:12 "The new language is thus named after the first systems designer to go over budget and behind schedule." cute. 06:04:09 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 06:04:39 'A hotly contested issue among language designers is the method for passing parameters to subfunctions. Some advocate "call by name," others prefer "call by value." Babbage uses a new method -- "call by telephone."' erlang 06:06:14 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 06:06:26 -!- Sellyme has joined. 06:09:57 Over The Phone 06:17:20 over the phone radar 06:17:53 over the phone booth 06:23:14 :t from 06:23:15 (Profunctor p, Functor f) => AnIso s t a b -> p t (f s) -> p b (f a) 06:23:19 wrong from 06:23:33 You're right, it would be much better with pure profunctor lenses. :-( 06:24:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 06:25:00 I mean, I'm interested in GHC.Generics 06:32:07 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 06:44:42 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/CC-delcont-0.2/docs/Control-Monad-CC-Dynvar.html 06:44:54 So, it's storing values of arbitrary types ? 06:45:15 I guess this implies ST could be made in pure Haskell? Or am I missing something? 06:45:40 (Besides the possible negative performance implications of doing so) 06:46:01 -!- nikozzzzzz has joined. 06:46:21 ?? 06:46:26 -!- nikozzzzzz has quit (Client Quit). 06:51:21 "In the case for :+:, we produce False or True depending on whether the constructor of the value provided is located on the left or on the right:" 06:51:45 i'm with niko on this one 06:51:48 So, for A | B | C, the exact serialization depends on the nesting of :+: ? 06:52:12 If the GHC compiler changes how that nesting works, could that break reserialization? 06:52:24 (Reading the example in http://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-deriving-1.6.3/docs/Generics-Deriving-Base.html ) 06:55:00 i'm continually amazed by how complicated everybody makes haskell sound 06:59:17 thought of another name that has a name 06:59:17 there was an MIT Mystery Hunt team whose name was the entirety of Atlas Shrugged 06:59:45 the worst buffer overflow in human history 07:10:14 "Generic Generic Programming 07:10:14 " 07:11:04 where's my phylogenetic programming 07:30:46 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:32:28 -!- slereah has joined. 07:32:31 Hello 07:36:40 hi slereah 07:39:05 -!- hubert has joined. 07:43:55 -!- tromp has joined. 07:45:51 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:48:18 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:56:43 -!- hubert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:56:52 -!- shikhout has joined. 07:59:45 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:59:46 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 08:10:04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEHdDjVrGEM everyone's favorite movie 08:16:50 -!- hubert has joined. 08:51:31 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 08:55:43 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Llrsexme * New user account 08:58:24 [wiki] [[User talk:Llrsexme]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39356 * Llrsexme * (+2418) Created page with "Depending on scientific studies, introduction regarding virgin mobile acrylic inside eating habits is available being invaluable to take care of gallstone problems. To make ce..." 08:59:12 mmhm 09:09:06 -!- hubert has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:13:14 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:13:41 -!- hubert has joined. 09:23:12 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:23:16 hmm, apparently openssl had support (of some kind?) for big-endian x86 and x86-64 09:34:32 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:35:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 09:36:12 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:49:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:49:50 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 09:49:50 -!- Vorpal has joined. 09:50:28 -!- hubert has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:13:57 olsner: scary 10:27:13 this thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratus_VOS has a compiler that makes your x86 code big endian 10:31:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:37:44 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 10:37:45 -!- yorick has joined. 10:40:53 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:41:54 -!- slereah has joined. 10:59:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:16:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:19:36 olsner: sure, and you can implement something very close to big-endian integer types in C++ too 11:21:19 but that doesn't make the CPU itself big-endian 11:22:20 olsner, why? And what b_jonas said 11:25:59 olsner, huh, after reading the article, who uses that sort of stuff? 11:56:54 I think x86 modified to be big endian exists out there, but the average x86 processor won't support that 12:00:28 FreeFull: it exists as an emulator, sort of 12:00:36 but I don't think it exists as a physical cpu 12:04:55 Maybe not 12:26:37 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:45:07 -!- conehead has joined. 13:50:58 -!- nucular has joined. 13:50:58 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 13:50:59 -!- nucular has joined. 13:52:57 wtf are people asking for syntax highlighting for languages like brainfuck where it totally doesn't make sense? 13:54:43 I mean, maybe I can understand that in C you want to color macros, type names, objects, functions, undefined identifiers. 13:55:16 but in a language that doesn't have that kind of thing, or it can't be determined without running the program, what would syntax highlighting even do? 13:55:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:56:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:07:48 b_jonas: hey: I like them brackets blue! 14:09:37 I'd also'd love a brainfuck eclipse plugin. 14:10:03 So I can use it more professionlly. 14:10:40 although brainfuck completely lacks any library support 14:10:46 that's a bit of a turn down. 14:14:37 Is there a BF version with libraries? 14:14:43 Wouldn't be too hard 14:18:29 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:18:47 slereah: with so many variants out there, there's probably one 14:21:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[User talk:Llrsexme]]": Spam: content was: "Depending on scientific studies, introduction regarding virgin mobile acrylic inside eating habits is available being invaluable to take care of gallstone probl..." (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Llrsexme|Llrsexme]]") 14:21:50 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:Llrsexme]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites 14:31:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:44:19 -!- Bike has joined. 14:58:51 -!- Guest74775 has joined. 14:59:07 . 15:02:22 Guest74775: could you elaborate on that point? 15:10:24 -!- Guest74775 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:16:15 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 15:27:44 -!- conehead has joined. 15:35:57 :\ 15:36:14 oerjan stop editting the wiki and come here and help me :( 15:41:45 -!- slereah has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:05:46 -!- FreeFull has quit. 16:07:41 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39357&oldid=39346 * Zerk * (+13) /* Signed */ 16:28:36 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39358&oldid=39357 * Zerk * (+20) /* Nock Interpeter */ nil handling, br math 16:37:29 -!- xpte has joined. 16:39:01 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39359&oldid=39358 * Zerk * (+49) /* Arithmetic */ power of 2 optimization 16:42:48 -!- Sorella has joined. 16:42:59 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:46:54 -!- yorick has joined. 17:27:35 b_jonas: some syntax highlighters for lisp will color matching parentheses the same 17:27:49 heehee http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978 17:27:53 oops, wrong channel 17:34:14 good link though 17:36:04 though in general i dont believe i should have to defend every opinion to every person. 17:36:07 often it is a waste of time 17:37:38 (should be defensible, but need not always be defended, though you prob should defend ideas once in a while to make sure you're not fooling yourself) 17:38:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:43:48 kmc: I see 17:44:13 kmc: I do use the feature where the editor finds me the matching paren, but not with colors 17:45:12 i think coloring the parens themselves is not that useful, but some editors will also shade the background behind the text according to the level of nesting 17:49:57 http://paste.lisp.org/display/142012 example paren colors... in webscale 17:50:10 the color choice is, frankly, terrible. need queer eye for the straight guy to take a look 17:50:45 #haskelgbt 17:51:12 Bike: I assure you that I have no particular skill at color coördination 17:51:35 i like rainbows though :3 17:51:45 Queer And Also Design-Trained Why Did We Specify Queer Again Eye for the Straight Guy 17:52:12 for that matter, why specify straight? 17:52:22 "fashion help for dudes" 17:52:34 or just fashion help 17:52:40 Eye for the Person 17:52:45 that sounds... sinister. 17:52:45 eye for an eye 17:53:21 Bike: it's worthwhile to specify "dudes" because it has that connotation of "clueless and careless about fashion" 17:53:33 wow way to be misandric??? 17:53:37 -_- 17:53:52 there's already a similar show that's female-centric 17:54:04 wait, wait, is the show still on 17:54:06 not all guys are dudes 17:54:12 it's just something i vaguely remember from when i was a kid 17:54:16 Bike: not last i checked 17:54:22 when you were a kid????? 17:54:31 that was when i was in college or something 17:54:42 2007, apparently 17:54:46 is when it ended. 17:54:54 when it started i was... eleven. 17:55:20 a wee one 17:58:18 you know what would be good. a text-only browser like lynx except as modern html compliant as possible 17:58:21 with one of them beefy js engines 17:58:50 righto 17:59:33 it should even AUTOMATICALLY ASCII ART THE IMAGES 18:00:05 Bike: links2, w3m, elinks are all better than lynx at that 18:00:10 I think one of them has bad JS support or something. 18:00:13 still not great though 18:06:26 9what's the difference between a quintopia and a Bike? 18:06:34 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:06:37 well, Bike is a smart feller... 18:07:00 Also I'm a bike 18:08:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:08:38 Bike's a bike but is Phantom_Hoover a hoover? 18:09:09 hantom foover 18:09:17 the answer is yes 18:09:51 just run a headless webkit and send the output through an ascii art converter 18:10:03 most ascii art converters suck 18:12:14 yep 18:14:53 hmm.. i've seen people do mpeg in high-res ascii, but not full browser 18:15:02 would be interesting seeing youtube in ascii browser 18:15:09 would be an amusing hack 18:15:29 chrome4ascii 18:15:32 kinda like http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=3866 18:16:01 shit i was looking for that yesterday, thank you 18:29:24 -!- conehead has joined. 18:29:54 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:31:28 static const char rnd_seed[] = "string to make the random number generator think it has entropy"; 18:32:13 youtube videos with ascii were there a short time 18:41:54 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 18:53:52 -!- boily has joined. 19:12:07 These days, if you write to /dev/random it gets mixed in the pool but doesn't affect the entropy estimator. 19:12:20 On Linux, that is. 19:12:28 (Not sure if it has been different.) 19:12:45 -!- Zerker has joined. 19:13:02 wait, you can WRITE in /dev/random? 19:13:11 -!- conehead has joined. 19:13:23 i never got the idea 19:13:41 b_jonas: A brainfuck syntax highlighter that colors all non-brainfuck-command characters in some "comment" color sounds useful to me, since you'll immediately notice if you e.g. accidentally put a comma in your comment. 19:13:50 freebsd random(4) page says yes. 19:14:05 If the device is using the software generator, writing data to random 19:14:05 would perturb the internal state. This perturbation of the internal 19:14:05 state is the only userland method of introducing extra entropy into the 19:14:05 device. If the writer has superuser privilege, then closing the device 19:14:06 after writing will make the software generator reseed itself. 19:14:12 fizzie: ack. 19:15:00 Also there are people who syntax-highlight Scheme so that every paren level gets a different background color, you might do that for the brackets to indicate loops. Though it might be more of a distraction. 19:16:03 For Befunge I haven't really thought of any (automatic) syntax highlighting worth doing. You could indicate valid commands, maybe, but so many things are. 19:16:29 Oh, kmc mentioned that already. 19:17:16 need polyglot syntax highlighting 19:17:23 with rainbow parens for scheme 19:18:14 I think I started on a manual syntax highlighting/"literate code" kind of thing for fungot, marking and commenting regions, but never got around finishing it. 19:18:14 fizzie: i believe that this parliament must take account of the problem. 19:18:32 I did do that for a universal Turing machine Befunge thing, then lost the file. :/ 19:18:46 And mooz did a very nice highlighted quicksort but that's only in archive.org now. 19:19:14 http://web.archive.org/web/20060925160554/http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/quux/qsort.html 19:36:00 Also at http://sbp.so/qsort :-) 19:36:44 I feel like we should make an effort to mirror esolang content to keep it available... 19:37:50 (For Befunge-98 compatibility, base64-decode MSwzYwogICAgIDAwOTYqMD4yKzAwcDo6ICAgICAgdgo7YjF4ID4wZzEtXHx2IWAwLSIhIjp+OyM6PAogICAgIF4wLSQkJDI+IzxfXDAwZ3AxKyAgXgouCg== and apply) 19:39:31 fungot: stop making sense. 19:39:31 boily: president of the commission we will be in a position to give the member states too will take prompt action to update their systems for inspections at sea. 19:41:01 [wiki] [[.yacuabll]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39360&oldid=38967 * 192.160.117.140 * (-21) /* Example Program */ Fixed to match website 19:41:51 fungot: indeed. but have you really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? 19:41:51 boily: mr president, i would also draw the commission's attention to a number of occasions i have always understood that during the discussions on climate change, and this is why we stress the need for change. it spells an end to the shortfall of information and inability to be able to take decisions after 2007. cohesion, ladies and gentlemen. 19:44:53 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 19:45:36 "cohesion, ladies and gentlemen." 19:45:47 fungot: You're quite the orator. 19:45:47 fizzie: mr president, i too would like to stress very strongly and loudly here in parliament at that time accept an increase of a third country under the european union's great responsibility, and it could cause problems in the application of the agreement: for example references to the presence of president santer, with regard to this objective. 19:45:58 very strong and loud is the key to oration 19:48:49 I think I was either going to ask mooz for the sources and/or permission for a mirror, or did ask, but I don't know which, and if I did ask, what I asked for, and what he said. 19:52:48 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:57:02 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:59:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:59:54 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 20:03:30 http://www.umassd.edu/media/umassdartmouth/collegeofengineering/cisdept/resources/CIS_MS_Dependency_Graph.pdf i wonder why i can't find more of these... oh it's the CS department. 20:05:59 Now I'm tempted to scrape out the web interface to our course information system and try to parse a Graphviz graph out of the prequisites field. 20:06:07 Though the data is very very messy and not machine-readable at all. 20:06:10 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 20:06:30 And of course not available via any reasonable API either. 20:08:28 fizzie: how much of them is there? 20:08:55 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:09:08 I can't even tell that in any reasonable way. 20:09:29 fizzie: i've been thinking the same thing about my school. with the similar problems. 20:09:56 and there are a few hundred courses at least. 20:10:01 The search forms can't search an empty field. 20:10:40 fizzie: search for each digit 20:10:45 I can search for a single letter, apparently. 20:10:57 There are 4260 courses that have the letter "t" in their course code or name. 20:11:21 fizzie: how many of those have prerequisites? 20:11:33 How am I suppose to know *that*? 20:12:32 dunno. I'm glad I don't have to deal with this anymore. 20:12:35 Our university is the combination of three universities, so there's not even any single system for course codes. 20:12:42 nice, nice 20:13:01 Anyway, the prequisites field can have completely free text mentioning course names that are probably not even current. 20:13:20 And there's names in three different languages. 20:13:23 It's all very messy. 20:13:37 I don't think I'm going to try this. 20:13:43 all three languages filled for all courses? 20:13:46 or only one? 20:13:52 Anything from one to three. 20:14:07 Though the third (Swedish) is probably pretty rare. 20:14:10 I mean, I think here every course has an official English translated name 20:14:29 We probably have courses that don't have an official English name, though those are probably reasonably rare too. 20:14:31 ah, so that's in Finland? 20:14:34 Yes. 20:15:24 There's a university-level policy that bachelor's-level teaching should be mostly in Finnish, while master's-level stuff should be completely in English. 20:15:26 so what's the uh... second 20:15:28 ah. 20:15:47 Also, sometimes there are different course codes for the separate language variants. 20:15:53 I think only for some "mass" courses, though. 20:16:07 Probably for easier handling of exams or something like that. 20:16:32 fizzie: the courses have English names not because they're taught in English, but so that they can be printed to the English translted long diplomas and other forms 20:16:55 I think I had some Finnish course names when I last asked for a course transcript in English. 20:17:02 totally sensible reasons being american annoys me: my cv won't be a weird cosmopolitan morass 20:20:46 Here's a random sampling of course codes, to show how uniform it is: 02115, 04334, 20021, 20A00310, 21C09901, 22771, ..., 37A055, 710000, 90L011, A-112.2501, A61A00100, AS-84.3411, Atk0195, AUT.kand, BECS-C3001, cb0027, CHEM-C2410, ELEC-C4110, et003, Inf-0.3101, KE-30.C, KE-31.4520, LC-8045, tk0299, ... 20:20:54 I think that includes most of the formats. 20:21:39 man, the most i have to deal with is two (but not all) of the departments having different names at different campuses for no reason i can discern, meaning i have technically never taken a computer science class 20:22:58 I did most of my stuff (and got a master's) before the merger, so all my courses were Xxx-NN.DDD where Xxx was the name of a study program ("T" for computer science, "S" for electrical engineering, "Mat" for mathematics, etc.), Xxx-NN a code for a professorship, and DDD a three-digit course code with usually no clear structure. 20:23:21 fizzie: here the course codes are at least uniform, mostly: 20:24:05 Then they switched from three- to four-digit codes with some kind of a inherent structure; I think first digit is more or less approximately the year you're supposed to take it in, or something like that. 20:24:32 Most of the other formats are probably from the other two universities, and now they're transitioning to a entirely new format, perhaps (dare I think) to unify them. 20:24:58 they have the form BMETE010002 where "BME" is fixed and is the abbreviation of the university, TE is the two-letter code of the faculty, 01 is two alnums identifying the department owning the course, and 0002 is four alnums identifying the course among those 20:25:37 (It's this "ELEC-C4110" thing where the first part is a name for a "school" -- we've got six now -- and I don't know how the letter-and-four-numbers part is constructed.) 20:26:02 mind you, at least one department has two different codes because it was renamed once so old courses use the abbreviation of its older name 20:26:17 (more than just renamed really, it's complicated) 20:26:27 Except "new" maths courses seem to be of the form MS-A0503 and MS-C1110 and so on, even though "MS" is not a school name. 20:26:37 Never mind, I'm not going to start figuring this out at this point. 20:26:46 guys, i invented a way to easily kill a lot of nerds without raising suspicion 20:27:42 a feature in the online administration system I hated is this: when you search for a course, you must choose one of three options for what to search in, one of the three saying "all course", 20:27:49 just produce something that moulds REALLY hard and make it limited, with a number on it (that part is important!) 20:28:16 "all courses", but even "all courses" doesn't cover all courses, so you have to repeat the search using the other two options as well to find everything (and maybe even then you don't find everything, I don't know) 20:28:43 the other feature is that if you log in as a teacher, you get access to much fewer data than if you log in as a student 20:30:12 but the worst part is that the developers refuse to listen to complaints, they never fix bugs, and the software is based on some idealized rules which don't really apply to the university 20:30:39 oh, and the system has a planned downtime five hours every night for "backup" 20:31:19 it's web-based, and they keep changing the javascript code so it only runs on latest versions of browsers, even for features that used to work 20:31:57 our university intranet is incomparable to the non-intranet, for example the non-intranet contains the official instructions for phd students, as a pdf, and intranet contains an elaborate html version with most (though not all) of that information, but not the actual pdf 20:32:05 this is all about the state of the last iteration I used. the system before that was better in some respect and worse in some other respects 20:32:21 it was not web-based, but instead needed a remote desktop client. 20:32:37 oklopol: hehe 20:32:50 Oh, we've been iterating through several systems to access this stuff, too. 20:33:15 oklopol: I have seen important public information accessible only from the intranet, but I haven't seen anything you can access only from non-intranet 20:34:18 There's one more "formal" thing (Oodi) that does enrollment and (internally) grades and all kind of student management stuff, and then a separate thing for less formal course information (Noppa) which is where weekly exercises and project work and course news and things like that get communicated. 20:34:31 well, they clearly spent more effort on the stuff on the intranet 20:34:37 but it's still less information.. 20:35:10 Oh, and I once got an export from the first thing in a character encoding nobody could identify. 20:35:24 I don't understand why people would restrict information to a university intranet in first place. Do they think that makes it more secret because only the ten thousand people in the university can access it? 20:35:43 It wasn't any of the 1173 supported by iconv on this system, at least. 20:36:39 Oh, the informal system (Noppa) can be used to restrict selected material to logged-in users only. 20:36:50 Or some third level of access, I forget what that could be. 20:37:10 fizzie: could you at least identify the family of the encoding, like a 8859-1-alike, or a 437-alike, or a 646-variant (unlikely), or mangled double-utf? 20:37:16 No. 20:37:31 Well, I mean, beyond the fact that the ASCII half was there. 20:38:03 fizzie: did it seem like the information was there? or, like, every non-ascii replaced by a question mark? because I've seen a lot of the latter. 20:38:09 Oh, it was there. 20:38:20 fun 20:38:28 I didn't really have much to work with, since the only non-ASCII characters in my export were ä, ö and é. 20:38:36 All those three had a different one-byte encoding. 20:38:48 no uppercase letter? 20:39:12 No, this was a (quite short) list of names, and I guess all first letters happened to be ASCII. 20:39:34 The values for the lowercase letters didn't correspond to any standard encoding I could find. 20:39:41 I see 20:40:53 If you want to go looking, 0xc8 for 'é', 0x89 for ä, 0x88 for ö. 20:41:05 Though it's possible it was something custom for this system. 20:41:06 thanks 20:42:03 It's not one of the 8859 family, at least, since those have control characters (or nothing; I'm not sure if that's part of it) from 0x80 to 0x9f. 20:42:55 Oh, and last email I got from this system had all non-ASCII in the subject line replaced by an "X". 20:43:31 fizzie: or it could be mangled from two different encodings, but even then it's strange 20:43:48 (Further investigation showed that it sends raw ISO-8859-1 directly in the email headers, and somewhere in amavisd/SpamAssassin those got sanitized to "X".) 20:44:14 I've recently donwloaded a datasets where half of the text is fine and half has a broken (but luckily recoverable) mangling of the non-ascii 20:44:37 how about a language with esoteric syntax highlighting 20:47:02 "odd numbers are red and even numbers are blue, except primes are invisible" 20:48:30 that's a strange kind of synaesthesia 20:51:00 fizzie: yes, those codes are strange. they don't seem like 437-derived either to me, nor T1-derived or anything else. 20:51:46 "It's not one of the 8859 family, at least, since those have control characters ... from 0x80 to 0x9f." -- that's not sound logic, because cp1252 and cp1251 have printable characters at most of those places 20:52:08 I mean cp1252 and cp1250 20:52:27 but these codes aren't those of course 20:52:29 Yes, but I wouldn't call those part of the 8859 family just because they coincide with one elsewhere. 20:52:31 `run for c in $(iconv -l); do if printf '\xc8' | iconv -f $c 2>/dev/null | grep -q é; then echo $c; fi; done 20:53:00 kmc: I sort of did that already, except with iconv -l | while read cs; do if [ "$(printf '\x89\x88\xc8' | iconv -f $cs -t utf8)" = "äöé" ]; then echo $cs; fi; done 2>/dev/null 20:53:02 No output. 20:53:11 yeah i don't get anything either 20:53:39 fizzie: cp1250 doesn't quite coincide, just almost. as for whether you call it family, whatever, but they're still something I have to check if I don't know the encodings because they're frequent. 20:55:05 what I hate about cp1250 is that it didn't get renamed when they added those five characters that didn't use to exist when the codepage was first used (the romanian letters and the euro sign) 20:55:29 there is no code but unicode and utf-8 is its transport 20:55:48 kmc: I'm not convinced of that 20:56:01 though I've almost accepted it now 20:56:26 it might take a few more years till I'm completely converted to using utf-8 only 20:56:56 What I don't like about ISO-8859-15 is that it's "Latin 9". (This applies to any ISO-8859-N that is Latin-M for N ≠ M.) 20:57:41 I guess that's probably most of them. (Haven't checked.) 20:58:10 fizzie: that's because the "Latin" means the name of the script, and the purpose of iso-8859-5 is to encode the cyrillic script, not latin script 20:58:34 fizzie: plus there's one for hebrew and one for greek so it's all shifted 20:58:49 fizzie: besides, many other character sets have aliases 20:59:31 reasonable ones like, IBM-437 vs CP437; or ASCII vs US-ASCII or ISO-646-US or that crazy letter-number combination I can never rememner 21:00:08 ANSI_X3.4-1968 21:00:24 Onneksi ddkkvset eivdt ole endd ongelma. 21:00:48 what? is "ddkkvset" a word? 21:01:04 It's a running joke, it's a common mangling of "onneksi ääkköset eivät ole enää ongelma". 21:01:16 Something related to stripping high bits. 21:01:25 ah yes, I've seen that kind of thing 21:01:59 Alternatively, {{kk|set. 21:02:13 (For the ISO-646-FI interpreted as ASCII.) 21:02:32 the most common is stripping the high _byte_ of ucs16 codes, resulting in őű transformed to Qq 21:02:59 Freenode doesn't use the case mapping that has [\] be the uppercase variants of {|}. :/ 21:03:02 the 646 one is funnier the other way 21:03:05 (Perhaps that's quite reasonable.) 21:03:17 It doesn’t? Huh. 21:03:23 like, basic code listings with PRINTÉ and similar 21:03:35 It's mentioned in the numerics at the start of the connection. 21:04:05 Huh... does it in fact use it on the new server? 21:04:19 fizzie: yes, it's changed 21:04:29 I'm absolutely certain it had CASEMAPPING=ascii before. 21:04:33 yes 21:04:40 it got changed when they changed the irc server 21:04:46 Now it seems to be CASEMAPPING=rfc1459. Well, that's nice, I guess. 21:04:49 and I don't know what they did with clashing chanserv/nickserv registrations 21:04:49 If i wrote an IRC client, i’d certainly make it render nicks in ISO 646-FI unless the server informs otherwise. 21:05:16 It does inform you otherwise with CHARSET=ascii still, I guess. 21:05:58 fizzie: well, the character set is really a client-only abstraction, the server doesn't much care about it besides knowing what bytes it acceppts to channel names and what in nicks etc 21:06:11 fizzie: most channels these days have decided to use utf-8, 21:06:20 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:29 Yes, but I assume it's a reasonable choice for rendering nicks and channel names. 21:06:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:06:32 but back when I started ircing, at least one channel used iso-8859-2, and changed to utf-8 only later 21:06:51 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:06:52 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:07:07 Speaking UTF-8 on IRCnet used to be a major faux pas on several channels. 21:07:17 Nowadays it's probably mostly acceptable. 21:07:37 fizzie: well sure, the channels can decide 21:07:39 "To address the machine-vision and image-processing issues, the Open Connectome Project is alg-sourcing (algorithm outsourcing)" 21:07:42 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bicyclidine. 21:07:51 just like how they can decide whether they like mirc-like color codes etc 21:08:05 I’m on quite a few IRCnet channels and nobody ever complains about UTF-8. Except one (1) person who’s IRCing on an ancient SunOS box with a broken iconv. He has me on /ignore. 21:08:15 lol. 21:09:27 All my IRCnet channels have pretty much died out, which I guess is also a solution of sorts. 21:10:37 ion: I hope your SunOS guy isn't on #utf-8. :) 21:10:43 Hah. He isn’t. 21:11:39 latest release 1994, eh 21:12:02 People still call Solaris that, to be fair. 21:12:13 Hmm, it *may* be Solaris, actually. I don’t remember anymore. 21:12:21 * boily is battling muscle memory full time... “stupid misorganized keyboard...” 21:12:59 I don't think I've used anything older than Solaris 7 / SunOS 5.7. 21:14:19 Ooh, Wikipedia lists April 29, 2014 (just a week and a bit away) as the release date of Solaris 11.2. Still going strong, I see. 21:16:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:16:40 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/90aec7d902c1d610e90720ebc42fabd4.png a log looks like a good fit for the envelope of the upper half. 21:18:51 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 21:19:36 «Unsurprisingly, since was so darn hard to find for OpenSSL developers they had resorted to manually protyping read(2) instead of incredible amount of preprocessor wizardry needed to find the ever illusive » 21:33:24 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:33:37 -!- ^v has joined. 21:36:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:37:55 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:38:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 21:38:33 [wiki] [[Hollang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39361&oldid=39351 * Doesthiswork * (+374) added link to implementation 21:39:05 [wiki] [[Hollang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39362&oldid=39361 * Doesthiswork * (+2) 21:45:21 -!- conehead has joined. 21:56:06 Bike: do you understand why 5HT reuptake inhibitors attenuate the action of 5HT agonists? 21:56:44 (some of them, anyway) 21:58:08 i really don't :( 21:58:18 i can't take biochem for a whiole nother year, probably 21:59:44 ok 22:01:04 If the OpenBSD team discovers a heartbleed-esque flaw in OpenSSL, would they go for responsible disclosure? 22:01:49 no, they'd use it to get admin credentials on linux boxes and replace them with BSD 22:02:04 It's just their review seems so... public 22:02:17 They'd post it on a web page in big letters. 22:02:22 -!- Zerker has joined. 22:02:28 gotta make a cool logo first 22:04:16 well, wait, so if serotonin reuptake is inhibited, there's going to be more serotonin around so of course serotonin receptors are more agonized? that seems too simple 22:05:16 you mean competitive binding between 5HT and the other agonist? 22:06:13 I want to make a language called cenotaffy 22:07:00 it makes sense except that SSRIs themselves don't make you trip balls 22:07:11 so i don't know if there's something about the relative activation of different receptor subtypes 22:07:33 [wiki] [[Redcode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39363&oldid=38262 * 91.125.123.39 * (+1) Corewar -> Core War 22:07:36 or that particular molecules activate the receptor in different ways which have different effects inside the cell 22:09:55 well i'm not actually sure what "5HT agonist" means >_< 22:10:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:12:25 Is Redcode really an esolang or more of a DSL? 22:12:25 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 22:14:07 it doesn't seem very esoteric at all. it matches its design space pretty straightforwardly. 22:20:49 -!- adu has joined. 22:21:19 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone). 22:34:04 oh i guess "foo agonist" is short for "agonist of foo-receptors", great 22:36:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 22:36:43 yeah sorry 22:37:41 if [whatever]chemical terminology being weird was actually your fault i'd actually be angry :P 22:37:59 i thought maybe it meant agonists of receptors that stimulate serotonin release, or something 22:39:41 -!- tromp has joined. 22:46:18 -!- TAROT has joined. 22:48:39 !welcome TAROT 22:48:41 TAROT: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:48:54 i just realized this paper i'm reading basically implements genetic memory 22:49:05 oh wait argentina 22:49:11 `bienvenido TAROT 22:49:12 TAROT: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 22:49:19 maybe they're from argon 22:49:42 -!- TAROT has quit. 22:49:55 i guess at least one of those got through 22:50:51 -!- TAROT has joined. 22:52:26 -!- TAROT has left. 22:52:48 oerjan stop editting the wiki and come here and help me :( <-- i didn't log on irc because i was about to leave so soon 22:56:07 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 22:56:52 oh, babbage was already in the wiki 22:59:00 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to fcrawl. 22:59:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:08:30 -!- boily has joined. 23:24:07 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:30:25 quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA! 23:33:40 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:40:39 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:41:13 -!- tromp has joined. 23:42:51 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:45:15 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:51:31 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:53:04 @messages 23:54:45 oerjan: I 23:55:16 I've been using my personal computer for work, so am usually offline from IRC for a period of time before work until a period of time after work 23:55:47 * oerjan has no recollection of what he @told, anyway 23:56:29 22:30:31: @tell Sgeo blah >>= flip when $ do ... <-- the precedences are wrong for that to work. 23:56:42 But there were some lines afterwards where you were wtfing 23:56:46 22:30:46: wtf is Sgeo not here 23:57:01 also, when you did return you returned as Sgeo_ 23:57:34 o.O 23:57:48 @messages 23:57:49 You don't have any messages 2014-04-19: 00:00:25 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 00:01:26 @messages 00:01:26 You don't have any messages 00:01:40 doesn't that kind of hurt the point of @messages-loud? 00:02:44 @messages-lewd 00:02:44 You don't have any messages 00:03:58 -!- fcrawl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:05:52 I was half-expecting that to be special-cased. 00:12:28 i suspect that's not supported without creating a new command with that name, which will ruin the typo correction by making a lot of them ambiguous... 00:14:56 @burr 00:14:56 Maybe you meant: yarr url bug arr 00:15:55 @yarrow 00:15:56 Arrr! 00:16:27 @arrow 00:16:28 Shiver me timbers! 00:17:19 I wonder, what is piratespeak like in other languages than English? 00:19:36 splitte mine bramseil, hva slags landkrabbespørsmål er det 00:21:14 (not very yarrry, for sure) 00:22:37 -!- boily has quit (Quit: YARROWING CHICKEN). 00:23:31 the main norwegian pirate figure at this time is kaptein sabeltann, who speaks bokmål but with some old sea slang words. 00:30:38 @tell Bicyclidine you now have messages 00:30:39 Consider it noted. 00:31:00 @messages 00:31:06 yeah weird 00:36:08 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:38:21 A German pirate would originally of course have spoken Low German / Low Saxon, which would be quite incomprehensible to any speaker of Modern Standard German. 00:57:21 http://www.the-apswiki.org/ this is some incredible web design 00:58:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:58:17 Very nice 00:58:30 I like http://www.the-apswiki.org/@api/deki/site/logo.png a lot 00:59:06 lol i didn't even notice 01:01:39 Sadly, /r/lolc does not seem to be the C equivalent of /r/lolphp 01:02:31 frankly the ungoogleability of C is a major design flaw 01:03:37 I wonder if some search engines special-case C and C++ 01:05:19 Google definitely does. 01:05:43 The results for "C" and "C++" by themselves are as you'd expect, for instance. 01:06:11 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:06:34 -!- Bike has joined. 01:06:54 monotone: That's not a special case. Trailing + are significant in google 01:07:06 (see also google+) 01:07:57 Oh, hm, so it is. 01:09:50 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:12:11 I think, however, that C/C++ may have been part of hte reason for this 01:13:11 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:15:29 i do want some kind of "wat"-style talk for C 01:15:48 coppro: C# seems to be special cased. (AFAICT # is usually ignored) 01:21:10 array function parameters, integer promotion rules, signed char, trigraphs 01:21:18 perhaps google has an algorithm for finding words that need special casing. 01:22:09 i get the same results from 'p# complexity' and 'p complexity' 01:22:36 kmc: sorry, r/watc isn't about c 01:23:39 boo 01:24:34 Bike: I get different results for "p complexity" and "#p complexity" though 01:24:54 do we have a langguage that lets you literally specify Turing machines? 01:25:54 because if we don't, I'm making one, and it will be called Tarpit 01:27:05 it all depends on what you mean by literally hth 01:27:54 coppro: there was one in sigbovik once 01:29:45 oerjan: I mean a language where the specification is some form of description of a turing machine 01:30:19 actually I've got an even better idea 01:30:30 a language where the input, in text, is a TM diagram 01:30:46 also roughly half of computability papers go through the rigamarole of specifying TMs as tuples, does that count 01:31:54 Bike: no because the tuple model is not actually something I can feed into a computer 01:32:09 ok i'll get the sigbovik cite for ya 01:32:10 wat. 01:32:36 oerjan: in reponse to which? 01:32:37 What? 01:32:37 since when do computers have problems parsing tuples. 01:33:24 "The Next 700 Intuitionistic Linear Logics" heh 01:33:33 oerjan: oh no. I mean I know of no programming language whose source code is the tuple and the language executes the tuple as a TM 01:33:46 btw i recall mark chu-carroll wrote a turing machine emulator in haskell once. 01:34:02 on his blog. 01:34:07 ah found it 01:34:11 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 01:34:13 eww that's verbose 01:34:27 ok apparently this one is written in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaid_%28programming_language%29 01:37:21 the actual turing machine definition is in: Brother Jonathan Aldrich. (2010) Holy States Can Save the World! In ZH Bovik (ed.) A Record of the Proceedings of the SIGBOVIK Conference 2010. 01:39:55 -!- adu has joined. 01:46:29 -!- ^v has joined. 01:53:05 eww 01:57:12 -!- shikhout has joined. 01:59:57 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:59:58 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 02:29:34 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 02:31:05 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:31:35 -!- ^v has joined. 02:33:52 is CPython compiled to asm.js "esoteric"? 02:33:52 http://blog.detectify.com/post/82370846588/how-we-got-read-access-on-googles-production-servers nice 02:37:42 http://aturingmachine.com 02:37:52 whoa, somebody kept a bug bounty and didnt donate it to charity? 02:39:15 -!- Patashu has joined. 02:41:41 [wiki] [[Tarpit]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39364 * Coppro * (+5913) Created page with "'''Tarpit''' is a description language for state diagrams of finite state machines and their generalizations. It is generally well established that the best description of fi..." 02:42:58 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 02:42:59 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:46:24 -!- adu has joined. 02:50:56 This game is a bit dated 02:50:57 '"Uh, well, the government did actually use that Facebook information to draft people for the second Korean war in 2013..." Todd replied.' 02:53:19 good 02:54:36 'Todd replied.' is this a book 02:57:41 It's a choose-your-own-adventure game, but needing to take all paths to really get the full story 02:57:55 http://www.kongregate.com/games/greg/thousand-dollar-soul-321811 03:07:16 -!- Palaver has joined. 03:15:14 -!- Palaver has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:15:30 -!- Palaver has joined. 03:19:07 urbit as an esoteric programming language 03:20:40 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:33:23 the ukraine crisis as an esoteric programming language 03:34:33 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 03:35:58 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 03:36:02 hehe 03:36:56 -!- tromp has joined. 03:37:01 with its highlevel compareToChamberlain function 03:37:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:37:34 no wait 03:38:34 clearly Chamberlain should just be an instance of the comparableTo class. 03:39:07 -!- Palaver has left ("Palaver http://palaverapp.com/"). 03:39:19 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:48:02 :t maybe Nothing . Just 03:48:04 Couldn't match type ‘Maybe a’ with ‘a1 -> Maybe a2’ 03:48:04 Expected type: a -> a1 -> Maybe a2 03:48:04 Actual type: a -> Maybe a 03:48:35 :t maybe Nothing Just 03:48:37 Maybe a -> Maybe a 03:49:29 does anybody of you know what the & is supposed to do in rail? 03:51:00 ruby on rails? 03:52:18 no 03:52:29 rail, the esolang 03:55:43 bike: have you ported ruby to rail? 03:56:01 ruby on the third rail 03:57:14 myname: checked the article. & looks kind of like a twisted up track so without more definition of 'lambda' it's obviously a crash 03:59:12 lol 03:59:47 ruby does rails 04:00:41 http://java.metagno.me/ 04:00:55 this stuff will probably kill you, lets do another line, what say you meet me down on hollywood and vine 04:01:16 -!- conehead has joined. 04:01:38 err heartattack and vine 04:06:09 StompWebApplicationContextAwareBean, not bad 04:08:19 Are GADTs == 'closed' data families? 04:18:23 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:21:11 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 04:21:37 -!- JesseH2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:22:07 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 04:23:27 -!- not^v has joined. 04:25:30 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:26:47 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:28:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 04:30:54 I happened to be sitting in the library near a CS 120 tutoring area 04:31:43 do you think you'll get over it? 04:32:13 probably not 04:32:19 http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/9/c/59c905daa195675abf6216e2f08ad32d.png can someone explain to me how physics even exists, as a field of study 04:34:04 when the students had left I asked the tutor and ill formed question about abstraction and partial application, and he explained that there was somthing called recusion that is pretty neat and that I should learn python 04:34:48 so did you 04:35:16 he did the appropriate thing and learned python by already knowing it 04:35:25 (That's recursion!) 04:35:47 is it 04:36:18 yes, that follows from the fact that it's recursion 04:36:31 good point. 04:52:29 "Ah yes, the Before C Programing Language" 04:55:57 Before C / Ano Dennisritchie 04:57:21 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:57:33 Haven't started reading (except that it proves False), but is http://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/impredicativity-bites.html fixed yet? 04:59:27 -!- Sellyme has joined. 05:03:35 o.O http://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/types.html#de-typechecker 05:05:01 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:06:01 [wiki] [[Talk:Hollang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39365&oldid=39355 * Zerk * (+239) 05:07:14 "Uncharitably speaking, Haskell, taken as a logic, is inconsistent in more than two ways." 05:08:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:10:17 stop the presses 05:11:56 "Essentially we turn a type into a logical program -- a set of Horn clauses -- which we then solve by SLD resolution. It is gratifying to see that Haskell typeclasses are up to that task." 05:12:55 -!- adu has joined. 05:14:05 i heard that haskell was not intended to be a sound logic. 05:15:26 i heard that the easter bunny isnt real :( 05:15:47 wow why would you say that on good friday? i'm pretty sure you're going to hell now 05:20:49 what makes it a good friday? 05:28:39 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 05:40:51 -!- trout has changed nick to function. 05:43:37 Do spin glasses actually exist 05:45:03 spin glass in yer ass 06:04:26 wikipedia implies so 06:05:21 well like in its spin ice article it at least gives an actual example (dysprosium titanate) 06:09:46 http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1386818 Anyway here's a blast from the past for you: A worm 06:11:01 [wiki] [[Hollang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39366&oldid=39362 * Zerk * (-280) Amended addition algorithm 06:22:45 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:27:03 [wiki] [[Hollang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39367&oldid=39366 * Doesthiswork * (-34) I am impressed, that is a much smarter program 06:36:18 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 06:52:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:05:23 "strncpy(d, s, strlen(s)) is a special kind of stupid. even when it’s right, it looks wrong. " 07:05:25 I don't get it 07:07:17 Heh, I thought it's a useless version of strcpy(d, s), but on closer inspection it's completely wrong 07:09:05 emotions and "irrational" behavior are a way for selfish genes to credibly commit to strategies which would be overruled by rational self-interest 07:10:14 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:12:36 Jafet: how's it different 07:13:09 -!- Patashu has changed nick to 7F1AAEZAZ. 07:13:10 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:13:10 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:13:33 i hear reason is and should be slave to the emotions 07:14:22 Bike: we, alone on earth, have the power to free ourselves from the tyranny of the selfish replicators 07:14:25 pass it on 07:14:35 cute 07:14:50 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:15:11 `run echo $'#include \n#include \nmain() { char a[] = "abcde", b[42]; strncpy(b, a, strlen(a)); return !puts(b); }\n' > /tmp/strncpy.c && gcc -o /tmp/strncpy{,.c} && /tmp/strncpy 07:15:12 abcde 07:15:46 `run echo $'#include \n#include \nmain() { char a[] = "abcde", b[] = " :-)"; strncpy(b, a, strlen(a)); return !puts(b); }\n' > /tmp/strncpy.c && gcc -o /tmp/strncpy{,.c} && /tmp/strncpy 07:15:47 abcde:-) 07:16:11 can you use words 07:16:37 ssl added and removed here 07:16:46 In english: don't use strncpy he is a lame guy 07:16:53 oh no 07:17:01 -!- 7F1AAEZAZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:18:29 `run echo $'#include \n#include \nmain() { char a[] = "abcde", b[] = " :-)"; strcpy(b, a); return !puts(b); }\n' > /tmp/strcpy.c && gcc -o /tmp/strcpy{,.c} && /tmp/strcpy 07:18:30 abcde 07:18:58 oh, it doesn't copy the null 07:20:08 kmc: is that a new vhemt campaign 07:21:45 i wonder if the selfish gene predates regulatory networks 07:23:23 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 07:25:34 i swear nobody keeps track of history with these things. need to give evolutionary biology a repo 07:25:40 Jafet: the tyranny quote? no it's the last sentence of The Selfish Gene 07:26:11 spot the irony anyone 07:27:02 -!- WOODMAN has joined. 07:27:05 brb setting up scumbag meme meme 07:27:12 Promoción GAWMiners para Compradores / vendedores Co-Op - 10% descuento en cualquier orden! 07:27:21 naw 07:29:12 -!- tromp has joined. 07:33:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:33:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o kmc. 07:34:13 -!- kmc has set channel mode: +b *!*@c-24-16-35-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net. 07:34:17 -!- kmc has kicked WOODMAN don't spam. 07:34:24 -!- kmc has set channel mode: -o kmc. 07:34:41 the bitcoin spam has reached us even here -_- 07:38:22 i want a god who stays dead, not plays dead 07:42:02 also, happy bicycle day 07:42:33 hell yea 07:43:02 419, uh, spin it 07:45:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 07:48:09 drop it, more like 07:48:36 why would you drop a bike :( 07:51:07 Bike do you know what bicycle day is 07:51:25 uh 07:51:32 ok wow shit 07:52:25 lol 07:57:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 07:57:58 One short trip for humanity 07:58:46 http://www.psychedelic-library.org/child.htm is a pretty good read 07:58:48 s/humanity/a man/ wow I mangled it more than I thought 08:00:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:00:03 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 08:00:36 "damn, this is the good shit" -- armstrong at some point, probably 08:01:05 have you ever been on the moon... on weed 08:01:22 Someone needs to fund this 08:02:21 http://members.shaw.ca/rlongpre01/moon.html 08:03:29 it's pretty tantalizing that only a tiny fraction of all possible psychedelics have ever been synthesized let alone tested in humans 08:03:59 and that tiny sample has yielded some of the most mysterious and powerful psychopharmacological agents and has facilitated many of the most intense and meaningful experiences ever reported by human beings 08:05:11 so what else is out there 08:07:05 Jafet: yes 08:07:39 -!- kmc has set topic: The channel with > 100% bots | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 08:08:35 The training simulation consists of taking weed on earth and pretending you're on the moon 08:09:24 It's cheap, no need to run a reality TV show 08:09:24 what if there were two astronauts on the moon and one of them killed the other with a rock. would that be fucked up or what 08:09:27 hotboxing a winnebago and calling it the lunar module 08:10:17 actually there was an earlier The Onion: Our Dumb Century article 08:10:27 "NASA, hippies race to send man to the moon" 08:11:22 http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1958 08:12:16 :D 08:18:40 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:20:49 Siamese Dream is a really good album 08:22:06 I wonder what point sandisk is making with this ad http://ds.serving-sys.com/BurstingRes/Site-19890/Type-0/39e1ac57-fdd0-4dad-a400-b4ea62db3b3f.jpg 08:22:34 "we <3 jpeg artifacts"? 08:26:33 time for me to sleep 08:27:00 good night friends 08:27:02 * kmc zzzzzz 08:34:50 Hello 08:34:55 I have came to replace kmx 08:34:57 *kmc 08:34:59 Whatever 08:35:01 It's early 08:47:05 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:47:16 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:01:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:35:28 http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/03/03/the-wild-west-of-cryptocurrencies 09:35:36 "stay tuned for part two where we’ll explore in detail how AMD Radeon™ hardware helps provide a technological advantage for users participating in cryptocurrency mining!" 10:16:01 "changelog: switched ad network (requires more permissions)" 10:16:09 yeah, must have update for an app 10:24:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:31:43 -!- yorick has joined. 11:21:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 11:22:24 -!- heroux has joined. 12:05:06 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 12:05:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:06:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:07:25 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 12:07:25 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 12:11:37 -!- erdic_ has joined. 12:14:39 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 12:14:52 -!- MoALTz has quit (*.net *.split). 12:14:53 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 12:14:53 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 12:14:54 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 12:14:55 -!- JZTech101 has quit (*.net *.split). 12:14:55 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 12:14:56 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split). 12:15:13 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 12:15:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:42:08 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * UncleMartin * New user account 12:42:58 [wiki] [[Joke language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39368&oldid=38890 * UncleMartin * (+73) /* Example-based languages */ 12:43:30 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:08:24 -!- olsner_ has joined. 13:17:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:32:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:43:08 -!- edinson1 has joined. 13:43:43 -!- edinson1 has left. 14:01:32 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:01:55 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:02:12 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 14:04:14 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:05:18 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:08:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:08:22 -!- shikherr has joined. 14:09:00 -!- shikherr has changed nick to shikhin. 14:10:44 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:10:57 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 14:27:33 -!- tromp has joined. 14:31:31 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:35:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:40:08 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 14:42:41 -!- jconn has joined. 14:45:18 For your edification, the weakly connected components of esolangs.org (considering as vertices only the main and category namespaces): http://sprunge.us/gSMg 14:46:22 (Disclaimer: does not take templates into account, so there are e.g. some stuff with {{stub}} that are not counted as part of the main component, since the [[Category:Stub]] link is not visible.) 14:49:43 hm those are essentially orphan pages 14:51:13 It's very close to Special:LonelyPages, yes. Though not quite exactly identical. 15:06:56 -!- ^v has joined. 15:14:56 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:16:11 -!- ^v has joined. 15:20:36 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel with > 100‰ bots | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 15:24:55 -!- adu has joined. 15:26:31 [wiki] [[FukYorBrane]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39369&oldid=30341 * 91.125.123.39 * (+18) CoreWars -> Core War and link to Redcode 15:29:00 [wiki] [[Brainfuck]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39370&oldid=39047 * 91.125.123.39 * (+18) /* Related languages */ CoreWars -> Core War and link to Redcode 15:31:07 [wiki] [[BF Joust]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39371&oldid=37998 * 91.125.123.39 * (+12) CoreWars -> Core War and link to Redcode 15:42:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:43:07 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 15:44:52 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 15:45:03 [wiki] [[Agony]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39372&oldid=35617 * 91.125.123.39 * (+1) /* AgonyWar */ CoreWar -> Core War 15:48:37 [wiki] [[Pinkcode]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39373&oldid=38039 * 91.125.123.39 * (-36) Core Wars -> Core War, changed link to Wikipedia disambiguation page for Redcode to Redcode page on Esolang wiki. 15:55:45 How is Redcode related to Brainfuck? 15:57:37 [wiki] [[Underload]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39374&oldid=35186 * 91.125.123.39 * (+4) /* External resources */ link to Redcode 15:58:56 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:58:59 mroman: It's not. But there's a BF interpreter written in Redcode. 16:00:05 Unless you mean comparing FYB and BF Joust to Core War? 16:06:50 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 16:07:01 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:21:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:51:35 -!- erdic_ has changed nick to erdic. 17:04:56 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:05:36 Unsurprising fact: "Language list" is the center of esolangs.org: http://sprunge.us/QFJG 17:05:44 Analysis as per http://mu.netsoc.ie/wiki/ i.e. the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrality#Closeness_centrality metric in the single, 1272-page strongly connected component. 17:06:35 (Hence the numbers indicate the average number of clicks needed to get to any other page starting from the indicated one.) 17:11:30 hmm. 3.1415 Underload 17:12:55 Intentional, I'm sure. 17:15:32 amazing 17:44:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:49:24 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libssl/src/apps/s_socket.c.diff?r1=1.30;r2=1.31 "Added for T3E" 17:52:53 heh. is that a computer without 32 bit ints? 17:53:33 (that would be a reason to use bitfields for IPv4 addresses) 17:56:23 impomatic: what's FYB? 17:56:52 oh i see http://esolangs.org/wiki/FukYorBrane 17:59:02 "The 21164 implemented a 43-bit virtual address and a 40-bit physical address." 17:59:07 says it had 64 bit regs, though 18:00:46 http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/61596b948ab4b982ac734df79749707a4faa0f07 Important 18:00:58 hahaha 18:01:14 i dig the commit msg 18:01:16 huh, the last one has four X 18:01:24 why?! 18:01:33 it's explained in the commit message!! 18:20:38 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/lib/libssl/src/apps/ca.c.diff?r1=1.43;r2=1.44 printf more like whybotherf 18:31:36 -!- conehead has joined. 18:53:20 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39375&oldid=39359 * Zerk * (+305) Added missing {a b c} format explanation 18:54:48 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:12:01 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 19:16:35 -!- olsner_ has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 19:16:54 -!- olsner_ has joined. 19:20:37 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:23:07 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:24:35 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 19:30:29 -!- trout has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:33:05 -!- xpte has joined. 19:36:15 -!- boily has joined. 19:37:00 `coins 19:37:01 x+coin spuracoin critecoin bercoin alpecoin owlcoin selfinghacoin steprocoin lerecoin fobcoin boguetcoin shafsoncoin majecoin prelncoin 0500coin hagecoin smitacoin pbodancoin 0.1800001100acoin quatcoin 19:40:38 x+coin is nice 19:40:56 c++coin 19:41:20 I would styalize it so that coin is below the X+ and the + inside the < of the X 19:41:32 coin is below the plus I mean 19:43:38 * impomatic wonders what these esocoin things are? 19:44:01 If you make a Markov chain with the transition probabilities taken from the links of the wiki (normalized, so that a page with two links to A and one link to B has a transition probability of 2/3 for A and 3/3 for B), this is the stationary distribution it has: http://sprunge.us/ARcB 19:44:06 I.e. if you keep clicking random links forever, that's relatively how often you'll be visiting each page. 19:44:57 (Er, assuming you only click those links that stay in the strongly connected component of pages.) 19:45:33 -!- DarthMater has joined. 19:47:30 strange. aubergine is more linked than betterave. 19:48:42 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betterave? 19:49:22 why does "Befunge/index.php" exist? 19:49:52 Hm 19:50:02 Or rather, why that name for that language 19:50:10 olsner: betterave. 19:50:49 boily: rdbeta? 19:51:32 olsner: most probably. 19:51:45 olsner, interwiki links seems to suggest it is beta in general 19:51:52 Though that could be wrong 19:52:35 olsner, so does the Latin name, which is probably more accurate than the interwiki links 19:52:41 yeah, seems like it's beets general 19:52:59 it mentions e.g. betterave rouge and betterave a sucre 19:53:35 Has anyone actually tried taking an existing conventional programming language and just interpret it differently? 19:53:42 olsner, oh it seems rödbeta is a cultivated variant of the beet family, that it is in fact not a separate species 19:53:57 boily: Aubergine has incoming links from "Aubergine/aubergine.hs", "Carriage", "Language list" and "List of quines"; Betterave has incoming links from "Hello world program in esoteric languages", "Language list" and "Truth-machine" only. 19:53:58 so that the source code remains at least syntactically valid in both languages 19:54:16 (I guess there's probably a MediaWiki special page for looking that up already?) 19:54:29 Special:WhatLinksHere 19:54:33 it's linked in the sidebar of every page 19:54:42 fizzie: aaaaaaah. 19:54:49 or whatever it's called. 19:54:53 Well, [pages[p] for p in (a[:,pagemap['Aubergine']] > 0).nonzero()[0].tolist()] is clearly much easier than that. 19:55:20 elliott, why the name "Befunge/index.php". It says you made that language. 19:55:27 (I have no idea why I have (a > 0).nonzero() in place of a.nonzero().) 19:55:36 mroman: you mean, unconscious polyglots? 19:56:21 well... 19:56:28 that depends what unconscious means :) 19:56:29 Vorpal: same reason as http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk:Brainfuck/index.php 19:56:29 s/un/sub/ 19:56:34 except for being knocked out 19:56:43 mroman: got my prefixes mixed. 19:56:52 elliott, ....yes I just found that, and I still don't know the reason for that either 19:57:13 but then, I really like that “unconscious polyglot” idea. 19:57:26 Vorpal: spam page titles 19:57:31 * boily imagines a coma patient that can not speak in multiple languages 19:57:49 Every program would be a polyglot I guess 19:58:06 Except it might not do the same thing 19:58:13 elliott, aah 19:58:31 hmm, might make it harder to make an actual polyglot 19:58:54 elliott, what happened to your befunge-98 implementation btw? In haskell iirc? 19:59:10 lost I think 19:59:12 or on some random hard drive 19:59:29 ah 19:59:56 For unconventional languages these already exist 20:00:05 just consider flipping + and - in Brainfuck and there you go 20:00:20 same syntax/grammer, different meaning. 20:00:24 *grammar 20:03:11 mroman, you could do the same in, say, C. Wouldn't be very interesting though, most programs just wouldn't work properly if you swapped, say, / and * 20:03:13 Obviously you could do the same thing in C. 20:03:16 Flipping ++ and -- 20:03:19 Vorpal: :) 20:03:33 I had the same thought just at the same time 20:03:53 but yeah. I hate it when a seemingly good idea suddenly turns boring again :( 20:04:18 although it could still be interesting. But you have to be more creative than just switch / and * 20:04:23 Right, prepare to be disappointed by life then. That happens 99 times out of 100 20:04:28 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 20:04:36 ah well 20:04:42 I'm already suffering from depression. So... 20:04:47 ouch 20:05:22 ... I'm already rather disappointed 20:05:26 I have a hard time of thinking of any transformation that would result in programs not specially written for this new language duality doing interesting stuff 20:05:52 Of course you could always write programs that check for it and do interesting stuff in either case 20:06:39 You could just add new features to it. 20:06:41 like uhm. 20:06:42 *yawn* 20:06:46 hm. 20:07:19 I don't know 20:07:27 Is "abc"+"abc" legal C code? 20:08:00 nah 20:08:07 I'm in the mood to make an esolang 20:08:08 damn. 20:08:18 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:08:22 you can add almost anything, but not two pointers (without casting) 20:08:23 "Shockwave Flash has crashed". Dammit flash 20:08:36 -!- shikhout has joined. 20:08:43 do you folk already know about pointer machines? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_machine 20:09:10 mroman, I think that would add up the addresses of the pointers to the strings 20:09:15 mroman, if it is legal that is 20:09:19 It probably isn't 20:09:20 Vorpal: it's not legal. 20:09:30 I'd thought it add up the addresses yes 20:09:36 but it's not legal. 20:10:03 Pointers are a torsor or something 20:10:34 doesthiswork, I heard of it iirc 20:11:06 "Pointer machines cannot do arithmetic. Computation proceeds only by reading input symbols, modifying and doing various tests on its storage structure—the pattern of nodes and pointers, and outputting symbols based on the tests. "Information" is in the storage structure." 20:11:11 I'm not sure I believe that 20:11:31 Couldn't you come up with a numeric representation for those systems? 20:11:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:11:32 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 20:14:43 Maybe that's meant like "Brainfuck can't multiply numbers" 20:16:03 mroman, it can, you just need to do it by a fairly inefficient algorithm 20:16:27 Vorpal: I believe you missed the point 20:16:34 "it's not built into the language" 20:16:52 right 20:17:40 yeah... ;) 20:17:44 int-e gets it :D 20:18:48 I'm going to make a new esolang BEFORE MIDNIGHT 20:19:01 @localtime Taneb 20:19:01 Local time for Taneb is Sat Apr 19 21:19:01 20:19:05 Taneb, that is a nice name, when are you going to make it ;) 20:19:08 I'm in BST 20:20:01 so midnight is an hour later for you 20:20:23 BST? 20:20:27 British Summer Time 20:20:30 GMT+1 20:20:34 Ah. 20:20:48 I was opting for B____ saving time 20:20:57 Bullshit saving time 20:21:06 or just Bullshit time 20:21:36 mroman, generally it is called "summer time" not "saving time" in Europe I think 20:22:15 Yep. 20:22:23 is summer the savings time? I always thought winter is when daylight is in need of saving 20:22:24 summrziit 20:22:35 olsner, :D 20:22:37 I'm in CEST for example, Central European Summer Time 20:23:13 @localtime 20:23:14 Local time for olsner is Sweetmorn, the 1st of Chaos in the 3136 YOLD 20:23:20 olsner: It's a mistery 20:23:35 @localtime 20:23:46 why is it ignoring me? 20:23:51 @localtime 20:24:00 How do I set the local time 20:24:02 @help localtime 20:24:03 time . Print a user's local time. User's client must support ctcp pings. 20:24:08 Aah 20:24:24 slightly surprised the ctcp reply from the other computer survived ZNC (currently on the laptop which apparently didn't get to also respond) 20:24:29 Yeah I filter all CTCP 20:24:40 well except CTCP ACTION 20:24:42 @localtime lambdabot 20:24:43 I live on the internet, do you expect me to have a local time? 20:24:58 @localtime fungot 20:24:59 olsner: mr president, the evidence indicates that community import conditions and controls at external borders and of border crossing points, one about the single currency project have been forced by fear of famine and warfare. the khran rebels, holding some six hundred civilians hostage, used them as human beings. 20:25:13 -olsner- TIME Sweetmorn, the 1st of Chaos in the 3136 YOLD 20:25:13 -olsner- TIME Sat Apr 19 22:25:07 20:25:18 I'm getting two answers 20:25:30 @localtime 20:25:33 Local time for mroman is Sat Apr 19 22:25:30 2014 20:25:45 the first one is clearly more important 20:25:57 >olsner< CTCP VERSION 20:25:57 -olsner- GNU sed version 4.2.1 20:25:57 -olsner- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Ubuntu 20:26:05 lol 20:26:11 the first one is even lacking the VERSION string 20:26:17 so that is incorrect 20:26:22 might be nondeterministic which one answers then, and lambdabot probably picks the first ... perhaps I can set up something nice in znc 20:26:23 probably 20:26:46 @localtime fungot 20:26:46 fizzie: madam president, i want to welcome the commissioner. 20:26:50 Local time for fungot is I AM TIME ITSELF 20:27:08 @localtime fizzie 20:27:10 Local time for fizzie is Sat Apr 19 23:28:07 2014 20:27:19 Vorpal: perhaps I just chose to respond usisng a CTCP GNU? that should be allowed? 20:28:17 Graph visualization is a https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140419-links.pdf good tool for data exploration. 20:28:42 olsner, pretty sure the response should be prefixed with the original command 20:28:48 olsner, so that would be with VERSION 20:28:59 not sure of if it should be caps or not 20:29:43 olsner, but I guess you could argue that you are sending an answer to something that was never sent 20:29:53 in which case you shouldn't respond to it 20:34:43 fungot, do you find words that start with five consonants inherently funny? 20:34:45 b_jonas: mr president, i want to wish you a fruitful presidency and we could go along with the outcome of the meeting at laeken. unfortunately, the working conditions and puts pressure on wages, implemented by the member states to look at the role that one of the most difficult question is probably whether and to what extent merchant shipbuilding is competitive in the long run if we are to find the funding to do so, in practice 20:35:01 thank you 20:35:22 b_jonas, words such as? 20:35:29 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:48 I can't think of any such words off the top of my head 20:36:30 happy easter, fungot! 20:36:30 int-e: mr president, honourable member, this particular accident again raises the problem of choices, the commission can intervene immediately. a further consolidation, a new regulation was adopted just last year i attended the coordinators' meeting of the conference. 20:36:44 "raises the problem of choices" 20:36:45 Vorpal: I'm laughing all day at a sign in the metro that has two typos, one of which resulted in the word зкстренного 20:36:48 lovely. 20:36:56 Does "sch" count as three consonants? 20:37:03 b_jonas, well I'm not russian so that doesn't help 20:37:03 not in german 20:37:17 Then no. 20:37:18 and in russian there is a single letter for that sound 20:38:06 There seem to be no real such words like that in my /usr/share/dict/words; the only matches are stuff like "HTML's". 20:38:11 maybe we need an esoteric language for this, one that likes crazy consonant clusters 20:38:16 I'd say it depends on what you mean by consonant, those are three letters and each is a consonant letter, but pronounciation is likely to be a single consonant sound 20:38:39 grep -E '^[qrtpsdfghklzxcvbnm]{5}' /usr/share/dict/words 20:38:41 gives me nothing 20:38:53 Assuming I got the consonants for English right 20:39:15 Y is sometimes a vowel, sometimes a consonant, or so I've heard. 20:39:23 funny, i'd have checked them in alphabetical order :) 20:39:35 There are words with 4 though, all but one use sch[lmnrt] 20:39:37 rather than scanning the keyboard 20:40:04 int-e, hah 20:40:30 int-e, anyway I'm not sure if I got them right for English 20:40:35 Since I'm not a native speaker 20:40:37 fizzie: that's what I've heard for english, but swedish counts Y as a proper vowel afaik 20:40:47 olsner: Oh, it's always a vowel in Finnish too. 20:41:03 olsner, yep 20:41:09 anyway allowing y there are a few 20:41:15 (I did [^aeiouy], FWIW; there are words when counting y, but they all sound pretty vowely.) 20:41:17 but them I don't know if they count 20:41:20 oh, and yet other times, Y is thorn 20:41:21 I'm thinking about making this language have nasty implementation-defined evaluation order 20:41:54 Taneb: I think there's already such a language 20:42:04 Taneb, like C? 20:42:06 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Whenever 20:42:09 b_jonas, also C 20:42:36 given something like f(a(x), b(y)) it is undefined if a or b is called first 20:42:43 Same goes for a() + b() 20:42:55 Not for a(); b(); though. 20:43:00 Unlike Whenever. 20:43:04 I was actually thinking more like http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/burns/pf.html 20:43:07 ah 20:43:26 Vorpal: I wonder about the status of 'w'. 20:43:31 sounds like Whenever makes it possible to specify ordering using dependencies/conditions, might want to get rid of that 20:43:44 but I'm not a native speaker either. 20:44:14 on that topic, how many syllables would you say "polynomial" has? 20:44:34 if u is a vowel, w should be a double-vowel 20:44:58 int-e, po-ly-no-mi-al? 20:45:10 or po-ly-nom-yal 20:45:26 olsner, I guess I could be pronouncing it wrong then? 20:45:31 int-e, I... actually pronounce it poh-nom-yal 20:45:37 I've had a native speaker tell me there are 4; my personal vote goes to 4.5 ;-) 20:45:37 Because I'm a bad person 20:45:45 "An important feature of the implementation of Pascal-FC is the random switching between user processes incorporated into the run-time system. This provides an excellent simulation of true parallelism and invariably finds bugs in poorly structured programs. " nice 20:46:02 pol ee nom ee ul 20:46:24 poh-lay-nor-mee-hal 20:46:25 "poly|no|mial" says LaTeX for allowed hyphenation points, but maybe that's not quite the same thing. 20:46:26 Taneb, are you skipping sounds then?? 20:46:32 Vorpal, yeah 20:46:45 Taneb, is that common with native speakers? 20:46:49 No 20:47:03 Taneb: wait, you dropped the 'ly'? 20:47:19 I... think so 20:47:31 Taneb: deliberately? 20:48:01 if saying it sloppily I might go as far as pol-nom-yal 20:48:02 No, it's how I pronounce it when I'm not thinking and talking quickly 20:48:06 for me its 5 syllabls but since english is stress timed the lengths are 1, .5, 1, .5, .5 20:48:54 somehow this lack of agreement makes me happy 20:49:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:50:18 int-e, but I would say 5 if I hadn't said it under my breath 20:51:09 that's an awful lot of syllables 20:51:30 it sounds like olsner is consitantly reducing unstressed close unrounded vowels 20:52:01 olsner: does that make it a syllabus? 20:52:06 fizzie, how do you ask LaTeX for hypen-points? 20:52:52 Right, this language is shaping up... 20:53:04 Vorpal: LuaLaTeX + \usepackage{showhyphens}. 20:53:10 Ah 20:53:43 Vorpal: Though IIRC it prints them in the "overfull hbox" errors too. 20:54:03 right, that is not quite as useful 20:55:03 Oh, there's a (TeX-level) command for it, though it doesn't end in the document. 20:56:13 http://sprunge.us/jHNO like that. 20:57:19 doesthiswork: I think I mostly just articulate poorly 20:58:00 but it is a standard way of articulating 20:58:10 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39376&oldid=39375 * Zerk * (+1433) Clarified whitespace, added section /* Macros */ and the relevant specification. 20:59:03 Hm. 20:59:54 Hmm 20:59:59 Can I encode numbers as "state"? 21:00:04 Reading a Reddit thread about ramen noodles 21:00:23 As far as I can tell, they're saying the big danger is lack of nutrients if it's eaten exclusively 21:00:34 Oh man, this is going to be really awkward 21:00:36 [wiki] [[Boxy]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39377&oldid=39376 * Zerk * (+2) clarification 21:00:42 I can treat "increment" as a transition from state 0 to 1, from state 1 to 2 from state 2 to 3 and so on 21:00:43 Not the ramen, the esolang I'm making 21:00:43 yes, sgeo, you can't live only on ramen noodles 21:00:55 Man cannot live on ramen alone 21:01:08 it's basically wheat flour, a small amount of fat and spices 21:01:47 But if I have a chicken sandwich for lunch, I shouldn't be too concerned if I have ramen for dinner? 21:01:47 but if I wanted two numbers I'd need a0,a1,a2... and b0,b1,b2... and so on 21:02:00 oughta work. 21:02:42 Sgeo, in general you need a varied diet. 21:02:43 Sgeo: it's usually the sum of nutrients that matters, and no normal foods have negative value 21:03:09 olsner, also varied diet to get all the required vitamins and so on 21:03:55 So, if for dinner sometimes I have a chicken sandwich, sometimes pizza, sometimes ramen, sometimes instant pasta, is that sufficiently varied/ 21:04:28 Wow, you eat like a third grader. 21:04:36 :P 21:04:54 And yet you still eat better than I do during termtime 21:05:09 Sgeo, what about... salads? 21:05:15 Sgeo: that sounds like fine foods 21:05:30 I used to eat pasta + parmesan cheese every night 21:05:46 But I really don't want to cook in this horrific place 21:05:55 I know I eat too one-sided but still I eat better than that 21:06:10 Sgeo: then how will you feed yourself? 21:06:17 olsner: eating out every day? 21:08:29 How the hell does /home have 19 GB free? 21:08:58 ?! 21:08:58 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 21:09:25 I could go start buying bananas from 7-eleven 21:09:28 `df . 21:09:28 df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on \ - 40573996 6747216 31769748 18% /hackenv 21:09:31 my (other) /home has 305MB 21:09:39 Hm 21:09:43 `df 21:09:43 df: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory 21:09:50 `cat /proc/mounts 21:09:50 rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0 \ none /bin hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/ 0 0 \ none /usr hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/ 0 0 \ none /dev hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/ 0 0 \ none /opt hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/ 0 0 \ none /lib hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/ 0 0 \ none /sbin hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/ 0 0 \ none /lib64 hostfs ro,nosuid,relati 21:09:58 `cat /etc/mtab 21:09:59 cat: /etc/mtab: No such file or directory 21:10:00 Ah 21:10:18 Maybe I should do that now 21:10:27 Instead of eating candy as a hunger fixer 21:10:50 I do seem to have found the one candy that I can buy and it actually lasts longer than a few hours 21:10:55 ``cut -d\ -f2 /proc/mounts 21:10:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cut: not found 21:11:03 what! 21:11:11 olsner: That's not quite "my other car is a Porsche". 21:11:22 int-e: You missed a space. 21:11:27 I guess? 21:11:35 thanks 21:11:38 `` cut -d\ -f2 /proc/mounts 21:11:38 ​/ \ /bin \ /usr \ /dev \ /opt \ /lib \ /sbin \ /lib64 \ /hackenv \ /hackenv/.hg \ /etc/alternatives \ /etc/java-6-openjdk \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib \ /tmp \ /proc \ /sys 21:11:59 `` echo $(cut -d\ -f2 /proc/mounts) 21:12:00 ​/ /bin /usr /dev /opt /lib /sbin /lib64 /hackenv /hackenv/.hg /etc/alternatives /etc/java-6-openjdk /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib /tmp /proc /sys 21:12:03 fizzie: this /home has a whopping 34GB though 21:12:12 that's a lot of mount points :) 21:12:21 or really it's the pool that has it now, but /home can have it if it needs it 21:12:33 int-e: They're all UML fakey-mounts, to be fair. 21:13:06 /etc/alternatives. interesting. :) 21:13:24 `run cat /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox | paste 21:13:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.18813 21:13:34 There are some internals there, if you're curious. 21:13:48 Right, I think I have give or take defined this language 21:14:17 It ought to have an implementation just so I can show people what exactly I mean 21:14:24 hmm, curious use of python, that looks like a shell script 21:14:39 Ack! It's nowhere near TC 21:15:08 olsner: At least there's no shell injection whatnots with subprocess.call if you mess up quoting or something. 21:15:18 -!- JesseH2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:16:04 hmm, point 21:17:04 It's quite the command-line, though; `foo -> nice ... umlbox ... env ... limits ... foo. 21:19:07 four other tools that also need to not mess up quoting 21:20:13 The /etc/alternatives comes from the umlbox --base-mounts flag; it automatically mounts (as read-only) the host directories /usr, /bin, /sbin, /lib, /lib32, /lib64, /etc/alternatives and /dev. 21:20:27 hmm, except they're not shell scripts obviously (probably) 21:20:29 that's a shell script because of me, I think 21:20:31 er, a python script 21:20:37 shell scripts are bad. 21:21:07 fizzie: cat ... | paste === url ... 21:21:12 well, ~= more like 21:21:18 elliott: Except you can't do `url on that file. 21:21:37 oh 21:21:44 why not? 21:21:52 oh 21:21:52 It's too special for that. 21:21:57 whatever 21:22:49 http://freshbsd.org/commit/openbsd/e5136d69ece4682e6167c8f4a8122270236898bf 21:23:14 Though it's pretty much identical to https://github.com/GregorR/hackbot/blob/master/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox except for the commented-out /var/irclogs. 21:26:24 It's probably mean of me, but I keep hoping the OpenBSD folks will do something like the Debian no-entropy-for-you while they're stripping stuff of of OpenSSL. 21:27:24 I consider it inevitable that some bugs will be introduced 21:27:27 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:27:30 bought bananas 21:28:32 but they might also find and fix them (easier?) now that the code is less bananas 21:30:37 fizzie: the debian what 21:31:18 Bike: https://www.debian.org/security/2008/dsa-1571 21:31:24 I'm sure you heard of it. 21:31:48 nope 21:32:03 i don't think i even used linux in 2008 21:32:33 Debian patched some Valgrind warnings out of their OpenSSL, and incidentally also made all keys generated with that OpenSSL trivially guessable, more or less. 21:33:29 There were a lot of weak SSH keys. 21:33:46 olsner: as in unfound bug? or do bugs that they introduce and then find and fix count? 21:34:12 olsner: i imagine there will be more bugs inadvertantly fixed than inadvertantly introduced.. but I guess we'll see 21:34:48 fizzie, ssh? I thought OpenSSL was pretty much separate from OpenSSH? 21:35:07 OpenSSH uses OpenSSL for its crypto though. 21:35:09 openssh uses primitives from openssl including random numbers 21:35:25 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:35:33 Ah 21:35:42 Because OpenSSL is not an SSL library, it is a complete library for everything even superficially related to crypto. 21:35:55 Yes I know, libcrypto and libssl 21:36:01 Including, of course, SSL-without-encryption. 21:36:04 I didn't know that openssh used libcrypto though 21:36:07 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 21:36:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:36:39 `run ldd $(which ssh-keygen) | grep crypto 21:36:39 ldd: missing file arguments \ Try `ldd --help' for more information. 21:36:44 Bah. Well, anyway. 21:36:46 Also OpenSSL has a terrible design, I used a tiny bit of libcrypto myself 21:36:56 It is a terribly designed API 21:37:21 newsham: I sure hope there will be more things fixed than broken :) 21:37:33 Or rather, there are like 5 versions of the API, and it isn't clear which one is the recommended one generally 21:37:34 OpenSSL is a fun way to learn C. 21:37:34 :) 21:37:56 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:37:58 pikhq, The internal coding style guideline is even worse 21:38:04 It has guidelines? 21:38:06 well I assume it is 21:38:14 pikhq, well the *result* is terrible at least 21:38:18 I assume there are guidelines 21:38:45 fizzie: hm i was wondering why deadfish got so low on that center thing 21:39:06 then i remembered that deadfish splitup... 21:39:11 StartSSL allowed for a free rekeying of affected certificates back when that Debian thing happened. 21:39:26 and then i remembered something else. there are a lot of section links into deadfish. 21:39:28 (They're sticking to their $24.90/cert fee for any heartbleed-affected ones, however.) 21:39:42 fizzie, ouch 21:40:51 is there any human involved in "earning" that money? 21:41:20 I think they do have a human looking over revocation requests, yes. 21:41:33 /usr/bin/ccache: error while loading shared libraries: libz.so.1: cannot open shared object file: Error 24 21:41:36 that was interesting 21:41:40 Because Twitter has it some people have gotten their revocations for free, even if the official policy is that it's not. 21:41:54 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 21:41:55 that exists 21:42:13 ok, why doesn't "this links here" tell whether links are section links twh 21:42:15 Huh, ccache --help works though 21:42:53 Vorpal: #define EMFILE 24 /* Too many open files */ 21:43:12 (Assuming you have matching error numbers.) 21:43:28 Huh that is weird 21:43:36 That is per process right? 21:43:59 Yes, it should be. 21:44:12 oerjan: Oh, I probably should've considered section links as links to the page itself. 21:44:27 [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Deadfish implementations]]": I just realized the move broke section links to the original. 21:44:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 21:44:41 oh wait, ccache resolves to ccache-swig in the end 21:44:43 running that works 21:44:44 but 21:44:47 $ file -s /usr/bin/ccache-swig /usr/bin/ccache-swig2.0 21:44:47 /usr/bin/ccache-swig: symbolic link to `ccache-swig2.0' 21:44:47 /usr/bin/ccache-swig2.0: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x390684d9747dd1b7b2ea1a4e842962607f7306cb, stripped 21:44:55 running ccache-swig2.0 doesn't 21:44:57 same error 21:45:04 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39378&oldid=39237 * Oerjan * (+59486) Undo revision 39237 by [[Special:Contributions/Nooodl|Nooodl]] ([[User talk:Nooodl|talk]]) (Breaks section links and half the point of the article) 21:45:09 `` perl -e 'use POSIX;print strerror(24)."\n"' 21:45:10 Too many open files 21:45:53 fizzie, lol, swig provides ccache-swig 21:45:59 and actual ccache is not installed 21:46:02 this is so weird 21:47:20 I wonder what ccache-swig actually does 21:47:36 man page seems to suggest it is ccache with swig-support 21:47:40 why? I have no idea 21:48:36 oerjan: Do you have opinions on whether "that center thing" should optimally look at other namespaces in addition to main and Category? (E.g. User.) 21:49:52 Vorpal: try installing the real ccache? 21:50:20 fizzie: possibly Esolang: 21:50:29 olsner, just did so 21:50:35 it replaced the swig one 21:50:36 User sounds dubious. 21:50:55 `which ssh-keygen 21:50:56 No output. 21:51:11 `run echo $(echo hi) 21:51:11 hi 21:51:37 `run echo hi; echo $? 21:51:38 hi \ 0 21:51:56 Strongly connected component now 1303 vertices when considering also Esolang: and converting section links to links of the page. 21:52:04 fizzie: oh and you aren't including the sidebar links are you? 21:52:13 those also feel dubious 21:52:20 No, just [[...]] in the article source. 21:52:23 include Special:Random 21:52:44 (Which also means templates are not... what's the fancy MediaWiki word for expanding them?) 21:53:01 Transclusion? No, that was expanding with some particular semantics. 21:53:11 (I'm no kind of MediaWiki admin.) 21:53:51 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates "Templates are standard wiki pages whose content is designed to be transcluded (embedded) inside other pages." 21:55:23 what's the difference between transclusion and inclusion then? 21:55:43 I would like to see some sort of general "distribution" engine. That worked on stuff other than compilers. It could work by creating a virtual environment on the remote machine, pulling additional files if they were opened (and then learning the behaviour of commands for the future, to avoid sending un-needed files, but send all needed files in advance) 21:56:22 So it would send over the invoked binary and all dependencies if they didn't exist locally, probably building a hash-directory of files in /lib and so on 21:56:30 olsner: ironically you can preclude text from transclusion using markup 21:56:53 Some sort of fuse thing could probably do it? Maybe uml? 21:57:14 . o O ( playing cludeo ) 21:57:22 oerjan: Though I don't think incoming links *to* Deadfish should (and didn't seem to, after all) affect its (directed-graph) closeness centrality much, since it's defined as the average shortest-path distance to any other page when starting from Deadfish. 21:58:16 I think icecc is pretty close, it uses an archive that becomes a chroot environment for the command to run 21:58:50 It did bump the Markov chain stationary distribution number of Deadfish up from 0.000647 to 0.000648, however! 21:58:55 olsner, having trouble finding the icecc you refer to 21:59:00 but it has code for parsing compiler command lines and doing preprocessing locally, and such... so you'd have to modify it to do other things with it 21:59:10 Vorpal: aka icecream 21:59:23 why does "Befunge/index.php" exist? <-- i vaguely think that's one of the "taken over after a spammer created it" pages 21:59:23 olsner, oh okay, yeah that helped find the correct one 21:59:31 oerjan, as elliott said 21:59:31 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CyrillicFez * New user account 22:00:34 oerjan, yeah it just seems like a centralized distcc really 22:00:36 err 22:00:37 olsner, 22:01:39 [wiki] [[ArnoldC]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39379 * CyrillicFez * (+192) Created page with "ArnoldC is an esoteric programming language created with Scala by Lauri Hartikka. The source is available [https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC here], along with tutorials and ..." 22:02:50 last time I checked, distcc only worked on identical machines, but maybe icecc and distcc are more equivalent now 22:03:05 ah 22:03:28 has anyone written AES in bf yet? 22:03:44 olsner, yeah distcc does that, unless you do a cross compiler, in which case only the cross system root needs to be identical 22:04:03 olsner, and that is only for pump mode, in otherwise just the compiler needs to be identical 22:04:17 olsner, I was thinking some sort of transparent thing that would monitor resources used by the command to determine what needed transferring, So if it tried to open /usr/share/foo and that was not already sent over, it would be on demand. Then it would remember that access for the future, and if it was accessed consistently it would send that over on every run and/or cache it 22:04:55 olsner, dependency extraction from command line arguments would be tricky though 22:05:15 it could detect if a file was used that was mentioned on the command line, but I'n not sure about includes and such, 22:05:23 Few other random esolang statistics: maximum out-degree 858 ("Language list", such a surprise); maximum in-degree 376 ("Category:Languages", ditto). 22:05:32 I guess you could manually write extractors for that, but then you would be back to specially handling all of that 22:05:50 fizzie: so who are the runner-ups? 22:05:54 fizzie, what about non-category/list ones? 22:06:09 Just a moment, I'll make a top-ten or so. 22:06:43 out of curiositty, how many edges do you have at the moment? 22:07:26 10815 edges between 1781 articles, when not doing the strongly-connected component restriction. 22:07:45 thanks 22:07:55 Or 10143 edges if collapsing multiple links to one. 22:08:15 (so there's no trouble with keeping them all in memory then :-) ) 22:08:21 olsner, yeah icecream is nice, but not quite where I want it 22:08:33 Not yet. There's even no trouble with keeping a non-sparse adjacency matrix. 22:08:59 It's certainly no en.wikipedia, that's for sure. 22:09:08 automatic dependency tracking is awesome 22:09:25 its the magic that lets CUPS get installed no matter what program you want to install 22:09:31 newsham, exactly, so a combination of icecream and tup I guess 22:09:41 newsham, heh 22:10:10 newsham, I was looking at it for a different context though 22:10:42 magic: cabal install cabal-install 22:10:51 newsham: there's that awful application side of cups, libcups, that tends to pull it in :/ 22:11:04 Right 22:11:22 Oh, right, http://sprunge.us/PDcj for a top-50 out/in-degrees. 22:11:39 inte: also most packages dont need it but lots of them have it enabled in the default "./configure" so all the binary packages have it as a dep 22:11:48 even though there will never be a printer hooked up to my computer 22:11:54 every program requries it 22:12:17 fizzie, so basically Brainfuck in both cases for actual esolang 22:12:20 goddamn it 22:12:27 Many of those 461 in-edges to "Esoteric programming language" are probably first-paragraph "X is a [[esoteric programming language]] ..." stuff. 22:12:30 oh wow, when did the firefox threads get distinct names? 22:12:33 the fuckers at my isp have blocked viooz now too 22:12:37 newsham, so use gentoo 22:12:41 newsham, where you can turn it off 22:12:46 Phantom_Hoover, what is that 22:12:55 vorpal: what makes you think i was talking about linux? 22:13:03 newsham, so use gentoo 22:13:11 Phantom_Hoover, that was a joke btw 22:13:17 oh thank god 22:13:18 vorpal: why do you hate me? 22:13:19 Phantom_Hoover, also there are good VPN services, I can recommend a couple 22:13:28 newsham, do I? That was news to me 22:13:34 (I was surprised by http://sprunge.us/RdUT ) 22:13:36 vorpal: you wanted to gen2 me :( 22:13:39 newsham, anyway what *are* you using then 22:13:57 newsham, it was a joke, you could just turn off CUPS there 22:14:05 I stopped using gentoo years ago 22:14:16 what do you need vpn for? if its for avoiding geolocation, i know a proxy that is better than general proxy since it will geolocate you diff places depending on which site you hit 22:14:31 vorpal: freebsd (also ubuntu) 22:14:52 int-e: Huh, that's so fancy. Thunderbird (well, Icedove) and Chromium threads have reasonable names, too. 22:14:53 newsham, well okay, with ports can't you turn flags on and off? I don't remember 22:14:57 maybe not 22:15:21 vorpal: you can do it manually in ports, but if you use precompiled packages you will get cups 22:15:28 its the kevin bacon of packages 22:15:31 fizzie, really? 22:15:33 more links than erdos 22:15:42 | | | |-mate-panel-+-chromium-+-chrome-sandbox---chromium---chromium---3*[chromium---{chromium}] 22:15:43 | | | | | |-chromium 22:15:43 | | | | | |-chromium-+-chromium 22:15:43 | | | | | | `-3*[{chromium}] 22:15:43 | | | | | `-48*[{chromium}] 22:15:48 that doesn't look like reasonable names 22:16:01 Vorpal: Possibly new, then: http://sprunge.us/NANf 22:16:06 -!- Patashu has joined. 22:16:19 what do you need vpn for? if its for avoiding geolocation, i know a proxy that is better than general proxy since it will geolocate you diff places depending on which site you hit 22:16:30 geolocation isn't the issue, it's the isp blocking the site altogether 22:17:04 then vpn it is.. there are lots of them.. usually around $10/mo, sometimes a little cheaper 22:17:09 fizzie, not debian stable I guess 22:17:20 Vorpal: No, this is on jessie. 22:17:20 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:17:23 fizzie, ah 22:17:47 "Chromium 33.0.1750.152 Debian jessie/sid (256984)" 22:17:48 what's the point in paying to pirate films... 22:18:02 paying to pirate films? 22:18:05 newsham, doesn't a proxy work for that? 22:18:22 I'm using jessie here, too. 22:18:39 vorpal: if you use a dns-based proxy it can proxy through different geo-sites for different services. vs a vpn where you pop out at a fixed point for the duration of your vpn tunnel 22:18:59 phantom: i dont use it to pirate 22:19:30 i use it to stream tv from uk, fr, ca, ... 22:19:58 through the legit tv station websites 22:20:00 Phantom_Hoover, see /msg 22:20:10 (they just geo-lock it based on ip addr) 22:20:16 newsham, ah true 22:21:30 newsham: Presumably that's still pirating. (At least the Finnish public broadcasting company's site geo-locks those programs they have distribution rights only for within Finland.) 22:21:33 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 22:21:33 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:21:55 newsham, what proxy do you use btw? 22:22:00 (I guess some of them might be less discriminating.) 22:22:05 I would like one in US at times 22:22:09 fizzie: depends on who you believe. i've heard industry lawyers say that video taping tv shows is pirating and that copying your cd to mp3 files is pirating 22:22:16 despite the us govt stating otherwise 22:22:33 int-e, lambdabot is breaking in -lens 22:22:43 newsham: Lawyers who hadn't heard of the Betamax case? 22:22:57 > 1 22:22:58 1 : Integer 22:22:59 vorpal: overplay.net's smartdns proxy (they also have traditional proxy, i dont use that though) 22:23:02 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 22:23:11 newsham, what is the difference? 22:23:25 pikhq: no, even lawyers who have heard of the case. the great thing about being a lawyer is that you dont have to agree with precedence or reality if your client doesnt want you to 22:23:52 vorpal: for smartdns you just configure your dns to point to them, they give back responses for certain sites that direct you through some auto-proxies of theirs 22:24:04 you never run a traditional vpn program on your host 22:24:05 newsham, eh okay 22:24:09 Ah, right, you don't get auto-disbarred for giving advice that is the exact opposite of what precedent and law explicitly says. 22:24:29 Clearly a lawyer can just say "Sure, you can murder all who stand in your way". 22:24:43 newsham, what about the traditonal proxy then? I assume that is a third option to the VPN 22:24:50 Or did you mean VPN 22:25:04 pikhq: if all lawyers were required to agree with all case law there would never be any challenges to case law 22:25:04 because I only see smartdns and vpn on their site 22:25:24 pikhq, well you CAN murder all who stand in your way. 22:25:25 vorpal: I use smartdns. i dont use vpn. 22:25:33 Just you might get in a little trouble for it. 22:25:43 pikhq: i'm sure blackwater lawyers have given out advice along those lines in the past 22:25:48 newsham, right, but there was also traditonal proxy you said, I assume a normal HTTP proxy? 22:26:01 oh, i meant traditional vpn, sorry 22:26:05 ah okay 22:26:37 newsham, what is their logging policy? 22:26:43 dont know.. i never asked. 22:26:44 newsham: Note that this is a supreme court finding. Without changes in law there literally can't be challenges... By which I mean "in US legal practice, if the Supreme Court said pi was three, pi is three." 22:27:04 vorpal: there are dozens of proxy and vpn vendors.. shop around, i'm sure some talk about logging policies 22:27:30 pikhq: can they get disbarred for disagreeing with a supreme court hearing when talking to the press? 22:27:36 right, if you just want a solid, fast and reasonably priced VPN provider in Europe I would recommend https://www.ipredator.se/ 22:27:47 that is more or less the context i was talking about.. industry people telling the press that something was illegal despite case law 22:27:49 No. Getting disbarred is ludicrously difficult. 22:28:10 You'd basically have to shit on a judge. 22:29:15 and the judge has to disapprove 22:29:21 some judges are into that 22:29:36 Taneb: hmm, there are two zombie processes, I wonder if they have anything to do with it. 22:30:16 The only issues I had with that VPN provider have turned out to be on my end. I have a non-trivial setup where only a specific user account is routed through the VPN. This is a mess of iptables and multiple routing tables to achieve. 22:30:23 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 22:30:36 I discovered I have a race condition at boot in that setup that I haven't managed to solve 22:30:46 Getting disbarred also only applies to a given state... You can then go out and have a law license elsewhere. 22:31:16 if prenda lawyers cant get disbarred, nobody can 22:31:32 Taneb: apparently, so restarting it helped. hmm. 22:31:32 Also, you tend to only get disbarred by your state's bar association. i.e. an association of lawyers. 22:31:52 (will have helped, once it's back in all channels) 22:32:22 Which is to say that it's about as hard to get disbarred as it is for a police officer to get charged with a crime. 22:33:50 I wonder if anyone's found an actual use for my groups Haskell library 22:34:38 -!- lambdabot has joined. 22:34:44 @run 42 22:34:54 42 22:35:21 unfortunately my current favorite supreme court ridiculousness is a consequence of facts, not pseudofact itself 22:37:17 hey I found my POSIX cat in befunge again 22:37:21 Bike, go on 22:37:22 I should put that up somewhere 22:37:31 Befunge-98 that is 22:37:38 Does it handle the semantics of -u? 22:37:52 Phantom_Hoover: do you remember the Myriad Genetics case 22:38:02 pikhq, alas it is documented to the effect of tt being impossible in befunge-98 22:38:12 Bike, no 22:38:16 pikhq, I don't even remember what -u does 22:38:18 tell me 22:38:22 Unbuffered IO. 22:38:26 ah, the gene patents one? 22:38:35 pikhq, Yeah you can't do that from inside befunge 22:38:40 Yeah 22:38:41 i.e. no FILE* junk. 22:38:45 read()'s fine though. 22:38:47 pikhq, why does gnu cat ignore it though 22:38:52 The conclusion was "you can't patent DNA, but you can patent cDNA" 22:38:59 pikhq, you can turn off buffering on FILE* 22:39:00 GNU cat uses unbuffered IO unconditionally. 22:39:06 ah 22:39:11 @run 619710.906128/86400 22:39:13 7.172579932037037 22:39:20 pikhq, that seems inefficient 22:39:21 which is a bit like saying you can't patent some text, but you can patent some text that you produced by copying the text you can't patent verbatim 22:39:33 Bike, w...wat 22:39:49 hmm 22:39:50 Not really. It just passes read() a large integer, and then write()s the results of that out. 22:39:53 supreme court can't into molecular biology 22:39:56 Known bugs and limitations: 22:39:56 * Due to Befunge-98's command line argument handling, double null string 22:39:56 parameters will be treated as end of command line. 22:39:56 * Due to Befunge-98's standard IO limitations it is impossible to implement -u. 22:39:57 pikhq, ^ 22:40:04 is cdna actually distinguishable from dna, physically? 22:40:33 Fairly efficient in general, though it'll be fairly inefficient if the source is something crazy that only ever writes, say, 1 byte at a time. 22:40:44 (which is to say, "hardly anything") 22:40:44 pikhq, right 22:40:57 pikhq, maybe some sort of character device? 22:41:01 well cDNA is isolated bits rather than the whole genome 22:41:13 Vorpal: Not generally. 22:41:27 The read() call will get the contents of the kernel char device buffer. :) 22:41:41 i'm not just not sure, practically speaking, what patenting cDNA would mean 22:41:54 pikhq, it is way too sparse befunge code btw, much too readable 22:42:01 Also commented 22:42:13 Bike, and so what, because you need to use the cDNA version of a gene to do anything meaningful with it, the patent functionally covers all uses of that gene? 22:42:16 you're not patenting the process to make cDNA, so anybody can do it, and you're not patenting the genetic information or transcription characteristics, which are not synthetic 22:42:20 Also, "inefficient" here means "practical IO speed of, like, 15 MB/s" 22:42:38 pikhq, Also GPL3 for some reason, though I'll probably relicense it to some "do whatever, but credit me" deal 22:42:57 Phantom_Hoover: i don't even know. the decision's stated idea was that it's because cDNA is synthetic 22:43:02 Which is also what you're bounded by anyways, because that's the speed of your source. 22:43:04 pikhq, I have used I/O devices much faster than that 22:43:26 pikhq, wasn't on a commonly available system though 22:43:57 Note that 1-char-at-a-time means that cat is reading from a device about that slow, meaning that it's... not exactly an issue that cat's also being slow. 22:44:05 indeed 22:44:14 So, there's no particular reason to *not* just use unbuffered IO. 22:44:17 "This is a bit like taking a copyrighted photograph, cutting several chunks out of the middle, and calling the result a new product that is eligible for copyright." says a geneticist, since i'm not one 22:44:40 Taneb: great, so now I can try to puzzle out why lambdabot would leave zombies behind, and how they affect @run. (by "lambdabot breaks" you did mean that @run produced (almost?) only timeouts, right?) 22:44:46 (the comparison is a bit interesting since i'm pretty sure if you were creative enough about your cutting that would actually be copyrightable) 22:44:52 pikhq, Anyway http://sprunge.us/RQIT 22:45:03 int-e, (yes) 22:45:04 pikhq, that is pretty terrible befunge-98 code 22:45:42 also cDNA is produced in the first place with reverse transcriptase, which is natural, just not naturally applied to human mRNA 22:46:13 i'm almost kind of glad scalia had the guts to say "ok i don't know any of this science stuff" in his opinion 22:47:56 (the comparison is a bit interesting since i'm pretty sure if you were creative enough about your cutting that would actually be copyrightable) <-- yes I think the technical term is "transformative work" 22:48:50 Man, why does the UK pretend it isn't European 22:49:01 it isn't 22:49:18 Vorpal: big fan of lhooq personally 22:49:31 Bike, not sure what that is 22:49:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marcel_Duchamp_Mona_Lisa_LHOOQ.jpg 22:50:37 Bike, yes, that is possibly transformative 22:50:52 Probably even 22:50:59 Taneb: I know this is comedy, but have a look at the first quote here: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Yes,_Minister#Episode_Five:_The_Writing_on_the_Wall 22:51:04 But I'm not a lawyer 22:52:15 int-e, hehe 22:53:16 it's used as an example of derivative work, i think 22:53:32 presumably the main recontextualization is that lhooq is half-french for "her ass is hot" 23:08:00 `cat bin/url 23:08:01 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys, urllib \ if len(sys.argv) <= 1: \ print "http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/" \ else: \ print ("http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/" + \ urllib.quote(sys.argv[1])) 23:08:31 `url bin/url 23:08:32 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 23:25:57 -!- conehead has joined. 23:26:29 -!- boily has joined. 23:30:01 The diameter of the wiki is 14 nodes; there are 24 pairs of pages that need 13 hops to navigate between them: http://sprunge.us/NHaM 23:30:09 -!- DarthMater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:30:44 (Of course there are several pairs of pages where you "can't get there from here", as they say, but ignoring those.) 23:31:05 how big's the second-largest connected component? 23:31:15 well, rather, how many pages are there not in the largest connected 23:32:03 Weakly or strongly connected? 23:32:48 oh right digraph. uhhhh how about both 23:33:14 There are 1692 pages in the largest weakly connected component, and 89 pages in others, the largest of which has three (3) pages. 23:33:26 `url bin/paste 23:33:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/paste 23:34:16 There are 1303 pages in the largest strongly connected component, and (obviously) 478 pages in others, the lergest of which have two (2) pages. (There are four such components.) 23:34:47 -!- variable has joined. 23:34:47 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 23:34:47 -!- variable has joined. 23:34:57 oerjan: hellœrjan. thanks for reminding me I need to update the PDF when I get home. 23:35:15 For the records, the non-singular strongly connected components are {"SELECT.", "SELECT./Hello World"}, {"Preposterous Programming", "Preposterous Programming Language"}, {"Postfix notation", "Prefix notation"} and {"Esolang:Community portal", "The Esoteric File Archive"}. 23:35:15 you're welcome 23:36:18 And the single weakly connected component of three pages is {"Chalcraft-Green train track automaton", "Chalcraft-Greene train track automaton", "ChalcraftGreen"} but that's p. boring since two of those are just redirect pages, which this script interprets as pages with a single link to the redirect target. 23:38:45 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:39:53 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 23:39:55 `run echo test 1&>2 23:39:56 No output. 23:40:09 `run echo test 1&>2 2&>1 23:40:10 No output. 23:40:26 maybe i should look up the syntax. 23:40:41 It's 1>&2 if you want fd 1 to go where fd 2 is currently going. 23:41:28 `run echo test 1>&2 23:41:29 test 23:41:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:42:35 (So ... >foo 2>&1 puts both stdout and stderr to file foo, while ... 2>&1 >foo puts only stdout to foo, and stderr to where stdout used to go.) 23:43:32 `run rm 1 2 # let's keep things tidy here 23:43:33 No output. 23:46:26 And 2>&3 1>&2 3>&1 3>&- ;# swaps stdout and stderr. 23:47:30 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 23:48:47 Though also clobbers fd 3 if that happens to be open. 23:48:51 now do a xor swap 23:50:19 pikhq: Don't you mean 3>&2 2>&1 1>&3 3>&- instead? At least empirically speaking that seems to work, while the former doesn't. 23:50:20 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/url 23:50:26 Sorry, yes, you are correct. 23:50:26 2014-04-19 23:50:24 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/url [364/364] -> "url" [1] 23:50:38 `run chmod +x url; mv url bin 23:50:39 No output. 23:50:40 I don't tend to futz with fd redirects that much. 23:50:43 `url test 23:50:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test 23:50:49 `url /hackenv/test 23:50:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test 23:50:57 `pwd 23:50:57 ​/hackenv 23:51:18 `url // 23:51:18 File is outside hg repository 23:51:20 It's arguably kind of confusing that A>&B does essentially a dup2 of B into fd A. 23:51:22 :D 23:51:36 `url bin/url 23:51:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 23:51:44 (So meta.) 23:51:45 the test may not be perfect 23:51:52 `ls // 23:51:53 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 23:51:54 oh hm 23:51:58 :D 23:52:16 `run sed -i 's/repository/repository./' bin/url 23:52:17 No output. 23:52:28 So, `url definitely doesn't handle '//' nicely. 23:52:46 Admittedly, '//' is approx. utterly insane. 23:53:02 (it is implementation-defined whether or not it is the root directory) 23:53:16 pikhq: um what do you mean, that is _not_ in the repository. 23:53:25 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:53:29 oerjan: Yes, but //hackenv/x would be. 23:53:36 yeah ok 23:53:40 `url //hackenv/ 23:53:40 File is outside hg repository. 23:53:52 `url //hackenv/test 23:53:52 File is outside hg repository. 23:54:51 `run sed -i -e 's|^/hack|^/+hack|' bin/url 23:54:52 No output. 23:54:57 `url //hackenv/test 23:54:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 23:54:58 File is outside hg repository. 23:55:12 Oh, ^. 23:55:30 "As a special case, in the root directory, dot-dot may refer to the root directory itself." 23:55:33 *may* 23:55:40 `url //hackenv/test 23:55:41 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test 23:55:44 Wow. 23:56:00 oh you fixed it? 23:56:08 Yes, though sneakily in a query. 23:57:13 well that still doesn't handle .. etc. 23:57:50 os.path.abspath could probably do it, but really... 2014-04-20: 00:07:04 ok let's say that's enough then 00:12:37 `run echo hi | TEST="" cat "$TEST" 00:12:38 cat: : No such file or directory 00:12:45 hm 00:13:09 is there a way to make no argument when the string is empty? 00:14:40 `run echo hi | TEST="hi ho" cat "$TEST" 00:14:40 cat: : No such file or directory 00:14:54 oh that's not working 00:15:27 `run echo hi | TEST="hi ho" echo "$TEST" 00:15:28 No output. 00:15:40 `` echo hi | TEST="hi ho" echo "$TEST" 00:15:41 No output. 00:15:53 why did it think that was the syntax 00:17:08 `run echo "test" >"hi ho" 00:17:09 No output. 00:17:15 `paste hi ho 00:17:15 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/hi%20ho 00:17:35 `rm hi ho 00:17:36 No output. 00:21:47 oh i can just use - as default 00:23:49 `run cat -- test 00:23:49 hi 00:24:05 `which cat 00:24:05 ​/bin/cat 00:24:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:24:16 `echo hi | run cat -- - 00:24:16 hi | run cat -- - 00:24:21 `run echo hi | run cat -- - 00:24:21 bash: run: command not found 00:24:30 `run echo hi | cat -- - 00:24:31 hi 00:24:45 maybe brain isn't entirely working. 00:25:33 `` function f { echo /$1/ /$TEST/; }; TEST=23; TEST=42 f $TEST 00:25:34 ​/23/ /42/ 00:26:55 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:27:23 -!- ^v has joined. 00:37:35 "One rapper likes big butts and cannot lie. One rapper likes small butts and always lies. One rapper likes all butts but shares your inability to assess butt size, and will answer yes or no at random if asked whether a butt is big or small." 00:37:40 http://ethicalwerewolf.blogspot.com/2011/02/puzzle-about-your-butt.html 00:39:08 i got there from http://lesswrong.com/lw/acy/acausal_romance/ which I got by googling "acausal sex" which I'm going to blame lexande for 00:41:38 -!- conehead has joined. 00:43:16 why would you read lesswrong! 00:44:35 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste 00:44:38 2014-04-20 00:44:36 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste [246/246] -> "paste.1" [1] 00:44:53 oh right 00:45:01 `run chmod +x paste.1 00:45:02 No output. 00:45:11 `./paste.1 test 00:45:12 ​/hackenv/paste.1: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `else' \ /hackenv/paste.1: line 4: `else' 00:45:28 hmph 00:45:42 `fetch http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste 00:45:43 2014-04-20 00:45:41 URL:http://oerjan.nvg.org/paste [255/255] -> "paste.2" [1] 00:45:56 `run chmod +x paste.2 00:45:57 No output. 00:45:59 `./paste.1 test 00:46:00 ​/hackenv/paste.1: line 4: syntax error near unexpected token `else' \ /hackenv/paste.1: line 4: `else' 00:46:07 `./paste.2 test 00:46:08 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/test 00:46:25 `./paste.2 /hackenv/url 00:46:26 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/url 00:46:48 `run echo test | ./paste.2 00:46:50 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.29682 00:48:02 `paste /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox 00:48:02 File is outside hg repository. 00:48:07 darn 00:48:23 oh wait XD 00:48:35 `./paste.2 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/sandbox 00:48:37 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.20962 00:48:57 yay! 00:49:11 `run mv paste.2 bin/paste; rm paste.1 00:49:13 No output. 00:49:45 mission accomplished. 00:50:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:52:59 fizzie: so now `paste will fallback to the piping method for files outside /hackenv 00:54:08 `pwd 00:54:09 ​/hackenv 00:56:09 int-e: originally it always used the piping method, but then i realized a long time ago it was stupid to copy files which were already in the repository. 00:56:54 but i didn't bother to treat the special case of a file name which was _outside_ it. 00:57:27 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 01:12:21 [wiki] [[Deadfish]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39380&oldid=39378 * 72.28.222.28 * (+80) Added makey-makey interpeter 01:18:08 http://www.synacktiv.com/ressources/TCP32764_backdoor_again.pdf security 01:20:19 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 01:21:08 -!- Gregor has joined. 01:23:28 birdman kicked my ass 01:24:58 `coins 01:24:59 beltercincoin nhofondcoin hunterconveyorcoin brevcoin korzacoin beatcoin 59074250346.9987377coin nufcoin grincoin bulicoin 0x2903coin exancoin pavitcoin octycoin convcoin villcoin musgescacoin franocoin itformcoin afficcoin 01:26:59 we're going to have our own Québecoin → http://journalmetro.com/actualites/national/481461/le-quebec-aura-sa-monnaie-nationale-virtuelle/ 01:29:05 how would you deliever 59074250346.9987377 coins? 01:35:12 one at a time 01:54:04 Ah, the Day of the Tentacle way. 01:55:23 -!- DarthMater has joined. 01:56:11 this is one of the few situations where fake barf *isn't* useful 01:56:25 -!- DarthMater has quit (Client Quit). 01:59:41 oh! 1956! 02:08:43 -!- shikhout has joined. 02:11:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:11:37 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 02:24:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SHEEPY CHICKEN). 02:35:18 :t sequence 02:35:21 Monad m => [m a] -> m [a] 02:35:27 :t map . flip ($) 02:35:28 a -> [a -> b] -> [b] 02:35:39 :t flip sequence 02:35:40 b -> [b -> a] -> [a] 02:37:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:00 :t let (.:) = (.).(.) in (.: sequence) 02:38:03 ([a1] -> c) -> [a -> a1] -> a -> c 02:39:54 :t flip 02:39:57 (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c 02:40:07 well i'm confused. 02:40:31 what is confusing you. 02:40:52 how flip sequence exists 02:41:10 by the power of the (->) a Monad instance. 02:41:24 ohhhhh. that's kinda nasty 02:41:48 yeah but it's the simplest way to apply all of a list of functions to a value. 02:42:18 :t (??) 02:42:21 Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b 02:42:37 unless you use that one from lens. 02:42:54 nah 02:43:48 i am hoping they will add ?? to Data.Functor. 02:44:31 and & to Data.Function 02:44:50 hm perhaps i should check if they have 02:45:02 it was decided against a while ago 02:45:07 maybe that changed though 02:45:27 oh. 02:45:53 both of them? :( 02:46:45 i think ?? should belong in the Functor/Applicative hierarchy, it's just a missing variant of <$> <*> 02:47:06 although it's of course badly named for that 02:47:38 surely it is badly named in general 02:48:03 yeah 02:48:31 but alas the naming scheme for functor and applicative operators doesn't imply any obvious spot to put it. 02:49:13 because all of <* *> <$ $> have been taken for something else 02:49:50 ideally you'd have made <$> something assymetric that you could have mirrored 02:52:53 :t (~%) 02:52:55 Not in scope: ‘~%’ 02:52:55 Perhaps you meant one of these: 02:52:55 ‘%’ (imported from Data.Ratio), ‘%~’ (imported from Control.Lens) 02:53:04 :t (%~) 02:53:05 Profunctor p => Setting p s t a b -> p a b -> s -> t 02:53:05 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 02:53:29 :t (%=) 02:53:30 (MonadState s m, Profunctor p) => Setting p s s a b -> p a b -> m () 02:53:40 :t (=~) 02:53:41 Not in scope: ‘=~’ 02:53:41 Perhaps you meant one of these: 02:53:41 ‘==’ (imported from Data.Eq), ‘#~’ (imported from Control.Lens), 02:53:46 argh 02:53:47 oh 02:53:48 -!- ^v has joined. 02:53:51 :t (.~) 02:53:52 ASetter s t a b -> b -> s -> t 02:53:53 oerjan: <€> 02:54:27 kmc: ah how obivous 02:54:33 hth 02:57:33 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:01:22 oerjan: ski wishes (<$>) was (<$), I think 03:07:13 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 03:12:34 elliott: that's still not a logical way to take care of the whole set. 03:13:05 I remember now, he wanted (<*>) = (<$>) 03:13:14 so fmap would be (<$) and I don't think he cares about (<*)/(*>) 03:13:24 he thought (<*>) should be liftA2 (*) I think :P 03:13:35 (since (<$>) would be liftA2 ($)) 03:13:55 i think in that case it would actually be more logica to let fmap be $> if current (<*>) were <$> 03:14:02 *+l 03:14:23 because leaving out a < or > would then mean the argument on that side is pure 03:14:57 and then ?? would be <$ 03:15:11 er, right. 03:15:36 (<$>) for ap would make applicative style code even uglier than it is now though. 03:16:31 in order to fit current <$ $> <* *> into that system it would be necessary to have operators for const and flip const to put inside 03:17:33 -!- adu has joined. 03:19:39 hm 03:21:28 |*| for <*>, *| for <$>, |>| for *> (and >>), |<| for <*, |> for $> and <| for <$ 03:21:38 and |* for ?? 03:22:20 Why was & decided against? 03:22:54 way too squiggly 03:23:19 if a recent discussion someone said that they've decided against including trivially writeable operators 03:23:34 trivial, the greatest term 03:23:34 or trivial operators which people can write themselves 03:23:43 *in 03:24:09 :/ standardization is a good thing 03:24:30 Also, what of trivially writable functions? 03:24:44 what's the diff 03:25:21 operators = infix by default, non-operators = prefix by default 03:26:06 But they obviously haven't decided that id should be removed 03:27:52 it's not about removing stuff, it's about not adding more 03:28:29 because there are too _many_ things that can be added. 03:31:17 oerjan: you might as well just add idiom brackets, when getting that radical 03:32:54 OKAY 03:36:21 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 03:40:11 How about idiom brackets with tagging 'impure' instead of 'pure' values (yeah yeah, bad nominclature) 04:02:17 no, nominclature is bad nomenclature hth 04:14:06 quilt more trance 04:16:18 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:09:03 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:23:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:30:18 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:35:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 05:37:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:00:11 http://www.icanbarelydraw.com/comic/2702 06:02:00 Hmm, I seem to have stumbled upon some arc looking at modern day money as though it was new and bitcoin was standard 06:02:05 comic not funny. furthermore, they can't draw at all. i demand a refund. 06:17:50 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:25:00 -!- impomatic has joined. 07:12:52 -!- conehead has joined. 07:40:10 -!- variable has changed nick to function. 07:49:29 Taneb: have you heard of the Taneb-calculus 07:50:33 But Taneb isn't a greek letter! 07:50:58 shachaf never said Taneb was a greek letter 07:57:04 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:04:30 -!- tromp has joined. 08:06:06 @tell oerjan If we're going to be that fancy, I fixed `url to use os.path.abspath so that e.g. `url /bin/../hackenv/test works. 08:06:06 Consider it noted. 08:11:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 08:13:03 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:17:52 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:23:36 `seen Phantom_Hoover 08:23:36 ls: cannot access /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ not lately; try `seen Phantom_Hoover ever 08:23:48 nogs :'( 08:47:02 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:47:35 :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y)) 08:47:36 t -> t -> t1 -> t1 08:47:38 ) :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y)) 08:47:38 ais523: |syntax error 08:47:39 ais523: | :t\m->\n->(\f->f(m)(f(n)(\z->z)))(\x->( \y->y)) 08:47:42 err 08:47:44 ( :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y)) 08:47:48 (input):1:1: error: expected: end of input, 08:47:48 operator 08:47:48 :t \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y)) 08:47:48 ^ 08:47:49 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 08:48:00 ( \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y)) 08:48:00 (input):1:4: error: expected: ",", 08:48:00 ":", "=>" 08:48:00 \m -> \n -> (\f -> f(m)(f(n)(\z -> z)))(\x -> (\y -> y)) 08:48:00 ^ 08:48:08 how do I do a lambda in Idris? 08:48:18 ( \m => \n => (\f => f(m)(f(n)(\z => z)))(\x => (\y => y)) 08:48:19 (input):1:40:When elaborating an application of constructor __infer: 08:48:19 No such variable argTy 08:48:23 hmm 08:48:32 I think that's correct syntax, but perhps a buggy interp 08:48:51 either that or it's trying to evaluate a higher-order function without arguments available 08:51:51 btw, any Haskellites around here, is it possible to get Haskell to infer the correct type for that term (t -> t1 -> t2 -> t2)? 08:53:58 Is that the correct type? 08:55:02 Oh, I see, you want a rank-2 type for the \f lambda. 08:55:10 No, not really. 08:59:13 Your Haskell code is very unidiomatic. 08:59:32 You can annotate the type explicitly to get the type you want. 08:59:56 :t \m n -> ((\(f :: forall a x. a -> x -> x) -> f m (f n id))) (\x -> id) 08:59:57 a -> a1 -> a2 -> a2 09:00:02 Something like that. 09:02:05 shachaf: it's not Haskell code, it's typed lambda calculus 09:02:27 I'm glad that it's possible to make it work the way I wanted, though 09:02:33 I think f(x) application is unidiomatic there too. 09:02:43 (I just meant syntactically.) 09:03:03 I know, but Haskell allows the parens there and I wanted to make sure I got the term right 09:03:13 because it's busy defeating something like three years of research 09:03:28 What's the research? 09:04:50 type systems that describe programs, rather than limit them 09:12:28 Hmm, building idris uses quite a bit of RAM. 09:13:08 In fact, this is ridiculous. 09:52:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:29:00 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 10:31:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:32:42 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:39:02 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:43:44 Help I am suddenly really self conscious about my arms 10:45:04 Taneb: that happened to me a while back, it went away after a few months 10:45:15 ais523, my arms are really tiny 10:45:19 oh 10:45:25 I just kept noticing that they existed 10:45:26 Long but tiny 10:45:32 and got in the way while I was trying to lie in bed 10:45:40 however, I need them much of the time 10:45:44 Doesn't everyone feel that? 10:45:49 so I thought it might be nice if they were retractable 10:48:29 That would be nice 10:53:30 Taneb: I don't know. Limbs are just there when one needs them. 10:54:36 int-e, this ain't no MS Paint Adventure 10:54:47 what? retractable limbs? 10:55:11 I'm not usually conscious of them otherwise. 10:55:24 So in a very real sense, yes. 10:55:29 Oh yeah, I need to write up that esolang I made last night 10:55:51 oh no... 10:55:52 ... "real" is such a nice word ... 10:56:33 (Does it refer to reality or realization? People assume the former when often it's the latter.) 10:57:05 int-e, it of course always refers to Madrid's football team 10:57:44 Obviously. 10:58:14 (That team is another example of something that I'm not usually conscious about.) 11:06:25 if you're not conscious on hardware attached to you, work on reading system logs 11:07:34 b_jonas: I read them recently to try to fix a network issue 11:07:44 noticed a warning message, and then got Rosegarden working properly 11:09:09 (the problem was that Pulseaudio was trying to create a dotfile in Timidity's root-owned home directory; I gave it a Timidity-owned .config to put it in) 11:12:41 kmc: stupid underspecified logic puzzles. what do the liar or the truth-teller do if they cannot answer a question according to their truth attitude? E.g. what does the liar answer to "Is your answer to this question 'yes'?"? 11:13:35 int-e: http://www.xkcd.com/246/ 11:14:14 is "would you say that this is the exit" considered to be a tricky question? 11:14:41 (subtle, yes, but common enough in english) 11:15:11 nice xkcd anyway 11:20:01 int-e: yeah, that's my favourite answer to the "solve the liar/truthteller puzzle without it sounding like a tricky question" 11:20:03 Oh. Three exits and I guess you only get one question, and then self-referentiality becomes unavoidable. 11:20:21 or the more explicit, and still idiomatic, "if I asked you if this door leads to the exit, what would you say?" 11:21:18 (self-referentiality being a reference to the question actually being asked, rather than a simpler, hypothetical question) 11:22:04 now I'm wondering if the three-door version is possible if you talk to a liar; it's clearly impossible with a true or false question, unless one of the options is to prevent them answering at all 11:23:05 ais523: which brings me back to my complaint about underspecified logic puzzles. 11:23:28 ais523: Obviously with just two answers, you cannot distinguish more than two possibilities. 11:23:33 yes 11:23:50 well, unless you circumvent the "two answers" requirement 11:24:01 (the complaint is about this one: http://ethicalwerewolf.blogspot.co.at/2011/02/puzzle-about-your-butt.html ) 11:25:52 Which is a bit subtler, but it's easy to say that again, with just two answers, "yes" and "no", you cannot draw any conclusions in some cases, namely when the "random" rapper happens to give the opposite answer of the truthteller or liar. 11:26:14 I meant "easy to see" 11:27:42 int-e: what? why? 11:27:48 you can ask different questions from them 11:28:26 "they are willing to collectively entertain exactly one yes-or-no question from you, to which they will each give an answer." 11:29:28 b_jonas: but it wouldn't help, since the question you ask the random rapper does not affect her answer. 11:29:34 int-e: but can't that one question depend on who answers, like if you'd ask "do you like my butt?" 11:29:53 can't you just ask something like "do you like my butt but not all butts?" 11:29:57 int-e: It's not random answers in general, it's just random if a particular butt is big or small. 11:30:06 -!- yorick has joined. 11:30:15 or "is it true that you don't like all butts but my butt is small?" 11:30:45 b_jonas: ah but does he lie or not? it doesn't say, so we can't know 11:31:11 I assumed the third rapper didn't lie, but it's indeed not specified. 11:31:38 ah, I see 11:31:43 anyway, you are right, it could be limited to preferences about butts. strange. 11:31:48 complicated 11:32:00 * int-e adds that to the list of unspecified details. 11:32:22 int-e: that one is specified, it says "All the rappers know all other facts relevant to the situation, including everyone's identity and butt preferences." 11:32:56 . o O ( you may know, but you can't tell ) 11:33:08 (NB. the comments give a solution) 11:33:26 int-e: but it says "they are willing to collectively entertain exactly one yes-or-no question from you, to which they will each give an answer" 11:33:31 so they will tell 11:34:25 "no". 11:34:29 at least the two simpler ones will tell 11:38:59 Yes, that does look like the intended answer. 11:48:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:12:36 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:14:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:28:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:29:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:49:32 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 12:52:03 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:03:32 -!- ^v has joined. 13:07:14 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:07:39 -!- ^v has joined. 13:08:30 -!- nucular has joined. 13:08:30 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 13:08:31 -!- nucular has joined. 13:29:04 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:29:13 -!- ^v has joined. 13:33:47 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:09:01 -!- shikhout has joined. 14:12:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:12:07 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 14:19:33 -!- edwardk has joined. 14:20:14 kmc: are you going to bayhac this year? 14:40:03 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 14:40:03 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:56:41 -!- tromp__ has joined. 15:00:18 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:03:29 "I love C++ [...] because it is intuitive and very high-level." 15:05:09 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:05:44 does the omission change the meaning of the sentence? 15:05:58 no 15:07:31 fwiw, the omission was "not because it is fast, but" 15:17:39 I don't agree with his definition of "very high-level" 15:17:56 or her definition 15:29:26 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:31:06 I think the sentence was quoted on the basis that olsner expected pretty much everyone to disagree with it 15:32:56 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 15:37:48 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 15:41:29 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 15:42:00 -!- ^v has joined. 15:44:23 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:50:21 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:53:45 ais523: indeed 15:54:54 -!- edwardk has joined. 15:58:59 -!- boily has joined. 16:13:37 I love C++ (not because it is fast, as it is not, but) because it is intuitive and very high-level (compared to motorola 68k assembly) 16:13:46 Is that agreement 16:14:51 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 16:14:59 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 16:17:14 I love C++ because it can be very high level or very low level depending on how you're using it 16:20:13 Heh. Lost Vikings is tough. 16:21:27 int-e: read a walkthrough to know all the clevery hidden secret passages 16:21:40 Lost Vikings is one of the few games I've beat completely. twice. 16:21:52 (I'm back on the spaceship, which should be the final set of levels.) 16:22:43 I like the Lost Vikings because it has a nice difficulty curve: the levels get progressively more and more difficult 16:23:13 the last level (MSTR) is the most difficult, the one before (4RN4) is the second most difficult, 16:23:30 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SLEEP). 16:23:30 and even before then the levels get more and more difficult than they were 16:23:37 with some outliers. that triple jump on sinking platforms in the circus levels was really tough. 16:23:55 compared to the other stuff in those levels. at least for me :) 16:25:11 Collected all those wiki link graph statistics at http://zem.fi/2014-04-20-wikigraph plus added a quick and dirty shortest-path finder. 16:25:58 int-e: it's nice that there are such hidden passages that I didn't notice when first beating the game 16:26:05 but found out about them from reading a faq later 16:26:53 (the triple jump is in the TRDR level) 16:27:18 I don't remember all the levels by heart, sorry 16:27:30 some of it comes back when I play, but it's just too much to keep in my head 16:28:35 That's why I mentioned the code. So that, if you feel like it, you can check which level I meant. 16:29:01 yep 16:33:11 I might do that. I do have a working copy of vikings in dosbox set up afterall. (It doesn't run it bochs, it's too new a game for that.) 16:33:55 -!- xpte has joined. 16:36:26 -!- nucular has changed nick to nuculaway. 16:39:33 The shortest path search is p. boring because most paths are so short. :/ 16:40:06 longest path search is NP-complete though. much more interesting. 17:15:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:23:51 -!- nuculaway has changed nick to nucular. 17:40:59 -!- adu has joined. 17:43:32 Bah, should've scrubbed (considered as aliases) those redirect pages, perhaps. The path from "Befunge" to "BrainFuck" is Befunge -> Brainfuck -> BrainDuino -> BrainFuck. 17:48:41 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 17:53:15 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 17:56:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:01:16 ah, you're playing that wiki maze game? 18:06:12 Not really, I'm just fiddling with some esolangs.org link statistics. 18:10:43 -!- Koen_ has joined. 18:16:12 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:30:57 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:39:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:45:12 i love C++ because it's a hot mess 18:48:04 fizzie: did you do any pagerank-type analysis 18:48:16 is the markov chain stationary distribution the same thing? 18:48:23 kmc: It's p. close, like the text says. 18:48:30 oh, i missed that 18:49:34 also, I really like d3.js's force-directed graph visualization http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4062045 https://github.com/mbostock/d3/wiki/Force-Layout 18:49:41 PageRank adds the damping factor thing, which you can interpret as a (page-independent) probability for stopping the random browsing, and the relevance then is the probability for stopping at a particular page. 18:50:02 I did a couple force-directed layouts with Gephi on the graph, but they weren't especially interesting. 18:50:10 If d3.js can do it, maybe I should add that too. 18:50:11 cool 18:50:15 how did i not know about gephi 18:50:46 "Ergonomic interface: based on NetBeans UI" c.c 18:50:46 c.c.c 18:50:46 c.c 18:51:02 wat 18:51:09 <3 18:51:50 Also "Linux: 1. Update your distribution with the last official JRE packages (update 25+), don’t use OpenJDK." 18:52:00 I just used OpenJDK; such a rebel. 18:52:27 I've used d3.js for some of the irc log graph stuff, it's neato. (No GraphViz pun intended.) 18:53:35 The Les Misérables graph is like the Utah teapot or the Stanford bunny, I see. 18:55:04 oh, i didn't know that 18:55:28 At least it's used in all the Gephi tutorials too. 19:11:45 -!- conehead has joined. 19:19:40 kmc: Well, I, uh... http://zem.fi/attach/2014-04-20-wikigraph/graph.html 19:20:15 There's supposed to be a thing that keeps it centered in the visible region, but it sure isn't working very well for me. 19:21:26 fizzie what have you done 19:21:33 your datamancy has gone too far 19:23:13 AAAAAH IT'S COMING RIGHT AT ME 19:24:26 http://everything2.com/title/Quantum+Fingers 19:25:22 It looks reasonably similar to my Gephi layouts, except those had some empty space around very central nodes automatically. 19:29:45 It is kind of scary if you manage to find a central node like Category:Implemented (they have tooltips that pop up; also I made the window bigger and increased gravity a bit) and then try dragging it. 19:30:16 Like a pulsating medusa kind of thing. 19:37:34 Added colors according to namespace, maybe it looks more friendly now. 19:50:08 -!- yorick has joined. 19:57:32 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:58:09 Also added the fanciest (and slowest) on-hover highlighting this side of [geographical feature]. 19:59:09 I'd add text labels that are dynamically toggled visible/hidden on the same hover action except my poor processor would implode. 20:06:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 20:13:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:15:10 oh that's pretty neat 20:16:06 one time i made a d3.js graph and then turned it into a "find the planar embedding" game 20:18:05 I wrote some JS code to detect edges that cross and add a CSS class to them 20:18:29 and by "wrote" I mean copied C code from Stack Overflow and turned it into JS 20:19:00 -!- boily has joined. 20:19:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:21:25 hi ph 20:21:40 kmc 20:21:42 is it really you 20:21:45 it has been so long 20:21:54 kmc: Isn’t that how all programming is done? 20:21:58 yes 20:22:02 stack overflow oriented programming 20:22:15 Oh yeah, I never wrote up my esolang 20:22:44 why would you read lesswrong! <--- where else am i going to read about acausal sex?? 20:23:42 Maybe I could call it... CONCURRENTREE 20:23:42 i don't know, read a book upside down or something! 20:24:16 acausal? 20:24:28 Taneb: Tanelle. designing a new esolang? 20:24:36 boily, it's more or less defined 20:24:43 I need to touch it up a bit 20:24:50 And it's annoyingly not turing-complete 20:24:55 I think it's linear-bounded 20:25:02 boily: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Acausal_trade 20:26:09 jesus 20:26:21 jesus loves you acausally 20:26:28 not provably 20:26:30 oooooow. 20:26:47 (that was the conclusion of one of the comments on http://lesswrong.com/lw/acy/acausal_romance/ ) 20:27:43 I think I'll stick to straightforward, illogical sex, thank you very much. 20:28:41 boily, illogical sex is the only sex I'll ever see 20:29:46 I'd like to take back that message, it was funnier in my head 20:31:00 * boily gently mapoles back illogical sex into Taneb's head 20:38:26 I also want to prepare a half-hour intro to category theory talk at some point 20:43:03 fizzie: why does google say "This site may be hacked" in re gephi.org? 20:45:00 kmc: There was a tweet about that. 20:45:16 kmc: https://twitter.com/Gephi/status/449088492266852352 "@mattwigway we've been hacked with some spammy links added in the code of the webpages. We'll fix it soon :)" 20:45:29 kmc: A rather relaxed approach to security, there. 20:46:14 heh 20:46:26 Starting to think there's one advantage to closed-source software: If you need to distribute a fix, you can do so without as much worrying about what happens to the people who apply the fix slighly later 20:46:26 The site runs on Wordpress, so... 20:46:52 Sgeo: on the other hand, you think this is okay http://www.synacktiv.com/ressources/TCP32764_backdoor_again.pdf 20:46:53 Sgeo: releasing the fix means it'll probably be reverse-engineered 20:47:13 the sort of people who could exploit such a flaw if they knew what it was, could also determine what it was from observing a fix 20:47:46 True... but what if you regularly release fixes for both security and non-security issues without saying which was more important? 20:48:04 Which is horrible in other ways, but 20:49:05 fizzie: ;_; 20:50:35 Release a patch every hour. 20:50:41 Automatically generated if you have nothing to fix. 20:51:49 pro strat, i like it 20:54:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 20:54:42 -!- boily has joined. 21:06:08 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 21:10:09 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:13:12 i didn't read this yet but http://chriskohlhepp.wordpress.com/convergence-of-modern-cplusplus-and-lisp/ 21:16:51 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:19:22 -!- tswett has joined. 21:19:53 So, there are two programs, P and Q. P outputs an infinite list of programs: p_1, p_2, p_3, .... Q also outputs an infinite list of programs. 21:20:04 For every program that P outputs, Q outputs a program that behaves the same way, and vice versa. 21:20:24 from http://conwaylife.com/wiki/Crab: 21:20:26 Must there exist a program that, given a number n, finds a number m such that Q_m behaves the same way as P_n? 21:20:30 Due to the diagonal glide symmetry and by simple inspection, the spaceship can easily be made to stretch two tub wicks simultaneously. Both cases are instances of a domino dragging a tub or chain of tubs. Be it noted that tub chains are also called barges, and that additional non-stretching variants are possible given synchronized eating at the far ends. 21:20:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:20:50 I never realized CA theory could sound so dirty. 21:21:55 isn't 'wick' a cricket thing 21:22:08 I wouldn't know. 21:23:01 Bike: A wicket is, but I don't think a wick is, though it sounds like a logical contraction, so maybe it is. 21:23:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:23:28 (All I know about cricket I learned from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.) 21:23:45 * kallisti is making a distributed Game of Life implementation. 21:23:50 good sentence to join the channel to 21:23:54 kallisti, hashlife, i hope 21:24:04 420 21:24:16 Phantom_Hoover: it's for a class project. I won't be able to do hashlife until after the due date for said project 21:24:21 but yes I plan to implement it, using a distributed quadtree 21:25:15 fizzie: no, a wick is the part of the candle that's not made of wax, I think 21:25:51 It's that, too, sure. 21:26:10 Also "any piece of cord that conveys liquid by capillary action", to quote WordNet. 21:26:15 Oil lamps have wicks too. 21:26:17 technically the class project is just "make a simple distributed system" but I decided to make it interesting for myself. 21:26:27 isn't that the sense it's used here? 21:26:40 I mean, it's where you light the candle 21:26:54 (technically not really, because you have to melt the wax too) 21:27:11 I think the wax melts and then gets conveyed by capillary action 21:27:18 Probably. I didn't look beyond the cricket comment. 21:28:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:29:25 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:30:09 also for the moment I'm only support life 1.05 file format for inputs due to time constraints, but later on I'll implement others. 21:30:32 OED lists 12 separate senses for wick, including things like "a corner of the mouth or eye" ("now only dial.") and "a creek, inlet, or small bay" ("sc. and dial."). 21:31:59 "Ȝiff þatt iss þatt ȝho iss all. Wittlaes. & wac. & wicke." 21:32:31 Anyone know off the top of their head whether or not Life has orthogonal spaceships of all rational speeds less than or equal to c/2? 21:32:32 (/Ormulum/ (Burchfield transcript), c1200, for the sense "wicked".) 21:32:35 you're playing game of life? I like that, I even have some crazy obfuscated code implementing it 21:33:55 tswett: I don't think that's known 21:34:01 dunno 21:34:06 look at http://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Speed maybe 21:34:24 I have no clue what size of pattern would even require distribution. Even the larger patterns run very efficiently with haslife. 21:34:32 on one machine 21:35:06 but the problem suits itself well to distribution... so why not. :P 21:35:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:38:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FOOD). 21:41:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 21:44:40 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:45:29 -!- conehead has joined. 21:50:47 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:51:14 -!- tromp_ has joined. 21:52:09 -!- tromp__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:52:09 -!- tromp has joined. 21:55:46 -!- not^v has joined. 21:58:50 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:00:50 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:01:07 -!- not^v has joined. 22:02:50 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:03:17 -!- not^v has joined. 22:09:13 -!- xpte has joined. 22:10:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:11:52 `url bin/url 22:11:52 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 22:12:10 @messages-blood 22:12:10 fizzie said 14h 6m 3s ago: If we're going to be that fancy, I fixed `url to use os.path.abspath so that e.g. `url /bin/../hackenv/test works. 22:13:14 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 22:14:39 `ls 22:14:40 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 22:14:45 `ls -a 22:14:46 ​. \ .. \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ .hg \ .hg_archival.txt \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 22:14:55 `ls .hg 22:14:56 00changelog.i \ branch \ branchheads.cache \ cache \ dirstate \ last-message.txt \ requires \ store \ tags.cache \ undo.bookmarks \ undo.branch \ undo.desc \ undo.dirstate 22:15:11 `url .hg/00changelog.i 22:15:11 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg/00changelog.i 22:15:48 `url .hg_archival.txt 22:15:49 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg_archival.txt 22:15:54 `cat :-D 22:15:54 ​☺ 22:16:32 `paste /proc/mounts 22:16:34 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.23924 22:17:06 fizzie: i just realized there was an exception :P 22:20:27 `url .hg/ 22:20:28 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg 22:20:31 `url .hg 22:20:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/.hg 22:21:24 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:27:19 `run sed -i '8c if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f):' bin/url 22:27:20 No output. 22:27:45 oops stupid sed strips initial space 22:28:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 22:28:17 `revert 22:28:18 Done. 22:28:59 -!- edwardk has joined. 22:29:06 I am completely addicted to these 22:29:06 http://www.amazon.com/Listerine-PocketPaks-Breath-Strips-Fresh/dp/B0054J2J5Q/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top 22:29:13 `run sed -i '8s!.*! if re.match(r"/|\.hg(?:/|$)",f):!' bin/url 22:29:15 No output. 22:29:19 If I have them in my apartment, I am incapable of consuming less than one pack a day 22:29:44 `run sed -i '8s!.*! if re.match(r"/|\\.hg(?:/|$)",f):!' bin/url 22:29:46 No output. 22:30:02 `url .hg/test 22:30:02 File is outside hg repository. 22:30:07 `url bin/url 22:30:08 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 22:30:16 `url .hg 22:30:17 File is outside hg repository. 22:30:47 good, good 22:32:46 hm this makes the error message somewhat dubious :P 22:33:38 [wiki] [[Staq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39381&oldid=35652 * 70.208.158.105 * (-53) the stacks are double-ended 22:33:41 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Excess Food). 22:36:03 I need to write a Tarpit interpreter 22:36:07 oerjan: Right, /hackenv/.hg is special. 22:40:25 `run sed -i 's/hg repository/web-viewable filesystem repository/' bin/url 22:40:26 No output. 22:40:33 `url /fnord 22:40:34 File is outside web-viewable filesystem repository. 22:48:56 Taneb: are you still all up in arms? 22:49:29 -!- adu has joined. 22:51:43 i like that {} feature of staq 22:52:18 would be more awesome with 2 dimensions 23:03:43 type Pointful = () + ((), ()) 23:03:47 ...why? 23:04:04 They did what looks like a fancy trick, apparently only to be able to write that. afaict 23:04:37 huh? 23:05:04 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/23jms9/more_points_for_your_very_numbers/ 23:10:59 -!- boily has joined. 23:11:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:12:06 Sgeo, what does 'big numbers' mean here 23:12:50 Possibly anything that would by default be displayed in scientific notation? 23:12:54 Just a guess 23:13:41 such as 6.981×10⁻¹³ 23:13:51 Maybe not, showFFloat forces standard decimal notation 23:14:27 `url bin/url 23:14:28 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/url 23:27:08 presumably anything over 7 digits is a "big number" 23:28:54 I'm not familiar with the + in the Pointful type defintion. Is that a new thing? 23:29:48 oh it's just a hidden name 23:31:16 -!- shikhin has joined. 23:33:16 whoever wrote this doesn't seem to understand what UndecidableInstances is for 23:33:56 they probably wrote this line: instance Num (Chuwabra a b) => Fractional (Chuwabra a b) where 23:34:04 and then GHC complained and said you need UndecidableInstances 23:34:08 and so they added it 23:35:31 Sure, it's a joke library, but that's no excuse for poorly written code! 23:35:53 What would you do to make it work? 23:36:36 instance Fractional (Chuwabra a b) where -- should work no? 23:41:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 23:42:32 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 23:47:21 -!- Patashu has joined. 23:51:07 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 2014-04-21: 00:00:33 -!- adu has joined. 00:01:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 00:06:03 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 00:06:04 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:13:31 Is shred likely to work acceptably well on Cygwin? 00:38:09 Apparently not 00:38:17 But I'm more concerned with malware than physical tampering 00:38:26 So should shred be sufficient for preventing THAT? 00:38:35 From accessing my sensitive data? 00:39:49 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:40:17 do like my parents, pour honey through your hard drives 00:40:54 yeah no 00:41:43 -!- Patashu_ has changed nick to Patashu. 00:43:05 How do I do recursive shred 00:46:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:47:58 http://larvalsubjects.wordpress.com/2014/02/20/lets-talk-about-sets/ alright i give in. set theory is too mainstream. univalent foundations 4ever. just make it stop 00:48:07 -!- nooodl__ has joined. 00:51:30 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:02:25 -!- nooodl__ has changed nick to FoWr. 01:29:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:43:14 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:14:02 [wiki] [[Staq]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39382&oldid=39381 * Oerjan * (+0) That's not a stack. 02:18:26 Does this mean we have to rename the language? 02:19:02 yes 02:19:04 deq 02:19:50 itym "deckue" 02:23:22 i suppose it is possible the q is from queue, i don't remember. 02:27:02 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 02:28:39 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:34:08 edwardk was here? 02:34:39 they asked kmc about bayhac. 02:34:52 ah. 02:35:10 oerjan: he comes by every now and then 02:35:20 copumpkin: you're not the dual of a pumpkin at all! 02:35:37 i think he's self-dual 02:36:21 if edwardk made an esolang, who could program in it? 02:37:06 rqjneqx? 02:37:51 who/what is rqjneqx? 02:38:17 rot13'd edwardk. 02:38:29 IC 02:43:04 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 03:10:17 -!- edwardk has joined. 03:31:47 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:37:51 -!- FoWr has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 03:49:13 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:51:09 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu). 04:01:50 -!- edwardk has joined. 04:13:01 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:35:28 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:35:42 -!- edwardk has joined. 04:36:02 -!- tromp has joined. 04:40:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:47:45 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 04:55:26 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:04:02 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:30:56 how strange it is to be anything at all 05:31:21 p. strange imo 05:33:26 hi shachaf 05:33:31 hi 05:33:39 glad you agree 05:35:42 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 05:35:47 i should make a bot that looks up things kmc says and posts information when they're lyrics 05:36:33 kmc himself turns out to be merely the entire lyrics of Louie Louie 05:37:00 Bike: what do you think of vissarion belinsky 05:37:15 "cool name" 05:37:25 "thx" 05:37:53 i've never heard of him, i mean 05:38:03 yes, i understood 05:38:06 "He hailed Fyodor Dostoyevsky's first novel, Poor Folk (1845), however, Dostoevsky soon thereafter broke with Belinsky" "Inspired by these ideas, which led to thinking about radical changes in society’s organization, Belinsky began to call himself a socialist starting in 1841" gosh i wonder if these are related...................... 05:39:16 Sgeo: you should actually play agora 05:39:18 it's pretty sweet 05:40:15 oh god calvinball is going to pass isn't it 05:40:21 err wrong channel 05:41:34 "Belinsky died of consumption on the eve of his arrest by the Tsar's police on account of his political views. In 1910, Russia celebrated the centenary of his birth with enthusiasm and appreciation." this article is just full of great juxtaposition 05:42:13 oh that guy 05:43:20 i wouldn't have thought 'arrested by the okhrana' is specific enough to clue you into an identity 05:43:37 he was a character in the plays that shachaf and i saw together in berkeley 05:43:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coast_of_Utopia 05:44:13 oh. that looks kind of nifty. 05:44:26 it's very good 05:56:05 we saw them all in a row, 7.5 hours of plays 05:57:28 ooh selnikov that was the guy who got be a head in a jar i think 05:58:12 *got to 06:07:28 Bike: what about what'shisname 06:07:33 alexander herzen 06:07:42 you know about all kinds of people right 06:08:05 i've never actually seen a people in its natural habitat. 06:11:57 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:12:30 i've never ever really met a normal person 06:15:41 shachaf: make that bot stat twh 06:23:57 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:51:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:05:03 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:05:52 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:05:53 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:08:26 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:08:37 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:09:56 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:13:39 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:15:26 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:21:38 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:22:05 -!- realzies has joined. 08:22:05 -!- realzies has quit (Changing host). 08:22:05 -!- realzies has joined. 09:21:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:31:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:35:02 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:35:32 -!- copumpkin has joined. 09:46:29 -!- yorick has joined. 10:01:44 [wiki] [[Talk:German]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39383 * 93.193.212.102 * (+1038) Some suggestions for improvement 10:14:32 -!- boily has joined. 10:18:23 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:18:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:31:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:49:28 mincross: pass 0 iter 1 trying 0 cur_cross 7723318 best_cross 7723318 10:49:33 That's a lot of edge crossings. 10:49:47 (I asked GraphViz's dot to render the esograph.) 10:49:58 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 10:49:58 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 10:58:01 -!- scoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:03:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: 　). 11:08:15 -!- nucular has joined. 11:08:15 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 11:08:15 -!- nucular has joined. 11:26:34 someone really is suggesting stuff for german? 11:46:12 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:01:18 fizzie: esograph? 12:08:22 coppro: esolang wiki pages and links between them 12:08:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:18:23 Ah fizzie pasted this link recently: http://zem.fi/2014-04-20-wikigraph 12:25:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 12:48:34 -!- nucular has changed nick to nuculaway. 12:55:22 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 12:56:56 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:34:51 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:02:28 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 14:02:46 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 14:08:41 -!- ^v has joined. 14:13:52 -!- nuculaway has changed nick to nucular. 14:17:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:18:51 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:27:00 -!- tswett has joined. 14:27:00 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:27:01 -!- tswett has joined. 14:57:48 cool my space filling tree works. I gave it a 10x10 rectangle asking for 3 leaves, and it spat out 3 non-overlapping subrectangles that cover the starting rectangle. 15:00:39 not really sure what the tree is, technically. Maybe implicit k-d tree? 15:01:11 well, k is always 2 actually. so implicit 2-d tree 15:11:37 -!- xpte has joined. 15:14:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glasses_800_edit.png 15:14:37 this took 23 days to render, apparently. 15:15:10 "More than 100 pages link to this file" time well spent, then. 15:15:17 imagine what video games would look like if we could render it in a few millisecond. 15:16:33 That looks obviously fake to me, like someone just grabbed a few wine glasses and photographed them 15:19:40 hm, I wonder if I'll even need to use a 2-d tree to partition the game of life grid. 15:20:57 right now I'm using a naive implementation of GoL but later I will switch to Hashlife. I could very easily use the 2-d tree and just have each distributed node implement their own hashlife algorithm. However, I could also attempt to use a global quadtree and distribute that across worker nodes, but I'm not really sure how that would work. 15:24:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 15:25:10 How distributed? 15:26:55 well, for the 2-d tree algorithm I just partition the grid into N subgrids, where N is the number of worker nodes. And then worker nodes communicate peer-to-peer to fetch boundary cells 15:27:25 I'm not sure how distributed quadtree would work, as I haven't studied hashlife enough to know how to distribute it. 15:27:49 hashlife gets a bit tricky if block addresses are no longer unique. I suppose you can let them be unique per-node, and then merge copies later. 15:29:38 I think it would honestly be sufficient to have each worker implement a local hashlife algorithm 15:30:53 You will need to merge the local hash tables every now and then, otherwise I can't see any speedup from using multiple computers. 15:31:52 yeah there's not really any computational benefit. You could, however, represent patterns that consume extremely large quantities of memory. 15:34:02 If you can rearrange the algorithm to deal with high latency table lookups, you might be able to use a DHT 15:34:59 (and cache frequently-used pieces locally, because pieces are immutable) 15:37:08 Hmm, now I want to waste time implementing this. 15:37:27 I'm currently wasting time implementing this. 15:37:56 except it's not really wasting time because the naive implementation I'm doing right now is for a class project. 15:38:30 (the project isn't to specifically implement distributed GoL, it could be any kind of distributed system) 15:39:05 once I finish that I'll probably work on the haslife implementation 15:40:25 I'm thinking I can somehow adapt the 2-d tree to partition the quadtree, but I'm probably wrong about that. 15:40:33 Hashlife is a pure functional algorithm, so it shouldn't be hard to transpose the steps 15:40:37 I just need to study hashlife more. 15:41:50 The usual presentation is: to get the successor of each piece, lookup the successors of its sub-pieces in the hash table, then combine them and put the result in the hash table 15:42:11 After transposing that, the hash table lookups can be streamed and latency shouldn't matter any more 15:42:20 I think. 15:43:48 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:46:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:46:37 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 15:47:09 ah I see. that's quite clever 15:49:20 Oh, there is also another fun and tricky part 15:49:26 Distributed garbage collector 15:49:59 is that even necessary? 15:51:33 Well, you can use reference counting... which is ridiculously slow even on a sequential computer 15:52:08 (One of the things I've been meaning to change in my hashlife code) 15:53:29 [wiki] [[Talk:German]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39384&oldid=39383 * Oerjan * (+53) unsigned 15:56:00 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:04:21 -!- conehead has joined. 16:09:36 -!- jjestrel has left. 16:12:45 Why is reference counting slow? 16:16:48 The large number of read/writes may have something to do with it 16:25:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:25:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 16:25:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:31:01 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 16:34:57 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:40:54 «Several conference proceedings have been infiltrated by fake submissions generated by the SCIgen computer program. Due to the fictional content the chapter “Developing Write-Back Caches and Information Retrieval Systems with EASEL” by “Mingqian Wang, Yingying Wang, Yueou Ren and Xi Zhao” has been retracted by the publisher» i love the future~ 16:54:32 dot's been running for four hours now, and based on the verbose outputs it's not more than maybe a third of the way done. 16:54:36 "Decoupling a* Search from the UNIVAC Computer in the UNIVAC Computer " 16:55:13 "A Methodology for the Simulation of the World Wide Web". Well, that sounds plausible. 16:55:19 "Many leading analysts would agree that, had it not been for pervasive configurations, the visualization of IPv4 might never have occurred. " this SCIgen is really something 16:58:24 Don't they have somebody at least looking at the sent-in papers 16:58:58 That wouldn't catch a hand-made fake paper but at least randomly generated papers 17:03:38 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:07:33 my fave is "802.11B considered harmful" 17:07:55 The worst bytes 17:08:00 Nothing but 666's 17:09:24 "A 2013 scientometrics paper demonstrated that at least 85 SCIgen papers have been published by IEEE" 17:09:28 Come on. Seriously? 17:09:45 they're mostly conference proceedings 17:09:57 You can't just quote that without linking to the paper 17:10:04 FireFly: :D 17:10:09 Yeah... 17:10:38 It's a WP-Quote though 17:11:06 you cannot petition the lord with prayer 17:19:10 -!- conehead has joined. 17:23:04 "Additional measures taken: An automatic SCIgen detection system is being integrated in Springer’s submission check system, and we will offer this system to our conference proceedings partners, who will be trained in its use." 17:23:11 This is priceless 17:23:31 SCIgen arms race 17:26:04 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:26:36 we should try to write a genuine paper that conforms to the formal grammar generated by SCIgen 17:36:46 haha 17:48:33 Bike: what do you think about newcomb's problem 17:50:29 not much into logic puzzles but it's cute 17:50:36 i'd take both, because a thousand dollars sounds pretty cool 17:51:48 a thousand dollars isn't cool 17:51:52 you know what's cool? a million dollars 17:53:11 a million dollars sounds pretty cool but if it's based on some televangelist's thinking i don't wanna deal 17:54:16 it's kind of like playing prisoner's dilemma with a simulated copy of yourself 17:55:08 well for that i'd obviously not defect 17:57:37 yeah 17:57:45 so you should take only the one box 17:58:36 well, i guess i would if i was pretty convinced the televangelist was accurate 18:00:40 what's this about televangelists 18:01:55 the predictor 18:02:25 predictor? i hardly know 'er! 18:02:50 i'm just saying, if someone came along with this thing i'd be like lol yeah right 18:03:13 it doesn't have to be right that much of the time for the paradox to be paradoxical 18:03:21 i think you can just adjust the payoffs accordingly 18:04:02 lexande: what is your success rate playing omega? 18:04:59 [wiki] [[Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39385&oldid=37412 * 91.64.186.58 * (+58) /* External resources */ 18:06:26 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kinnla * New user account 18:07:47 anyway you could say that the right course of action is to make it as easy as possible for even a mediocre omega to predict that you will one-box 18:10:21 that sounds like it's going to go into basilisks pretty fast, lol 18:13:27 gotta watch out for basilisks 18:15:05 do you want basilisks? because that's how you get basilisks 18:16:04 :V 18:16:54 -!- vravn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:24:15 -!- vravn has joined. 18:25:05 http://www.theonion.com/articles/how-to-solve-a-rubiks-cube,35827 this should explain me and this puzzle 18:25:42 Bike: just, like, conjugates hth 18:26:08 whoa, the biggest trick to solving a rubik's cube is a monad 18:27:33 A monad is like a Rubik’s cube. 18:28:59 monad/burrito jokes are hereby banned 18:29:24 `quote time is like 18:29:24 No output. 18:29:31 `quote time is more 18:29:31 No output. 18:29:33 :( 18:29:56 yay 18:30:02 mine wasn't really a joke, though 18:30:51 though perhaps it ought to be banned anyway 18:33:20 Did you know that Minecraft modpacks form the arrows of a category 18:33:31 Not the arrows 18:33:34 The other things 18:34:09 what doesn't 18:34:22 7 18:34:40 7 = {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} 18:35:29 wait, i'm apparently thinking of a "commutator" 18:37:34 Taneb: did you know group actions etc. are just functors 18:38:02 I did not! 18:38:12 There are many things I don't know 18:38:23 For example, what a group action is, or how to actually make a curry 18:38:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 18:38:31 what about a fast curry 18:39:05 a G-action is a functor : G -> Set hth 18:39:06 Similar to a group action, I'm afraid 18:39:49 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone and going away). 18:39:49 So, is fast curry a functor : fast -> curry? 18:40:10 @google fast curry 18:40:13 http://www.nigella.com/recipes/view/curry-in-a-hurry-11 18:40:15 Title: CURRY IN A HURRY | Recipes | Nigella Lawson 18:40:55 whoa, spj should've taken naming advice from nigella.com 18:41:17 though i guess the fast curry in question isn't necessarily fast to make, just fast after it's done 18:42:52 shachaf, that seems disappointingly not food 18:43:19 most things are 18:45:34 `coins 18:45:36 emptizudacoin gaxencoin truecoin alecoin salagecoin concoin m-codelcoin chrowcoin pinsonavocoin eplcoin resoncoin memfcoin beetcoin shencoin hintcoin gasoribericoin concoin slocoin brosievcoin pencoin 18:45:44 Non of those are food either 18:45:53 not even beetcoin? 18:46:03 My emptizudacoin wallet's all empty. 18:46:29 alecoin sounds like a foodcoin as well 18:46:43 And concoin sounds like a thing that exists. 18:49:49 -!- tertu has joined. 18:55:10 Do you people happen to know, if something is shipped as "FedEx International Priority" with "FedEx Envelope" packaging, are they going to drop it in the mail slot, or insist that I should be present to receive it? 18:57:36 (I'm guesstimating they want a signature of some sort somehow.) 19:01:12 give them an ECDSA signature 19:04:32 The mail slot should have some sort of public-key cryptography support, so that I could give them its public key over the nets, and then when they're at the door, they'd use it to both verify the mail slot's identity, and get a signed proof-of-delivery statement out of it. 19:05:38 I guess it'd be harder for the mail slot to check they delivered something sensible. 19:06:25 I didn't know that in the US it's illegal for FedEx or UPS to put stuff in people's mailboxes; they are regardes USPS property. 19:06:47 Of course what they're delivering is a special piece of paper that doesn't really have any excuse for existing physically. 19:07:39 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39386&oldid=31682 * Kinnla * (+331) /* List Constructor */ new section 19:14:33 @tell ais523 In 2006, you wrote in Talk:Rail that car/cdr stand for "Content of {Address,Decrement} Register", while in reality they're derived from "Contents of the {Address,Decrement} part of Register X"; they're parts of a single 704 machine word, along with the prefix and tag parts. 19:14:33 int-e: either company can deliver to your local post office, however, who will gladly deposit it in your mailbox for you 19:14:33 Consider it noted. 19:16:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:16:22 (That recently announced Talk:Rail edit does not really look like a question. Or at least a question lacking an answer.) 19:21:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:21:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:21:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:25:57 [wiki] [[Rail]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39387&oldid=39385 * Duerig * (+11) /* Built-in commands */ The list constructor should require a list/nil to build on. 19:27:09 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39388&oldid=39386 * Duerig * (+260) /* List Constructor */ 19:33:23 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39389&oldid=39388 * Kinnla * (+481) /* Forth Notation of Type Signatures */ new section 19:33:51 fizzie: "Decrement"? I thought it stood for "Data" 19:35:05 b_jonas: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/lisp/node2.html "The first problem was how to do list structure in the IBM 704. This computer has a 36 bit word, and two 15 bit parts, called the address and decrement, were distinguished by special instructions --" 19:35:21 fizzie: I see 19:35:52 @tell ais523 Citation: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/history/lisp/node2.html 19:35:52 Consider it noted. 19:36:04 It must be reliable, it says "www-formal" right in the hostname. 19:36:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:39:45 "The IBM 704 had a 38-bit accumulator, a 36-bit multiplier quotient register, and three 15-bit index registers. The contents of the index registers were subtracted from the base address, so the index registers were also called "decrement registers". All three index registers could participate in an instruction: the 3-bit tag field in the instruction was a bit map specifying which of the ... 19:39:51 ... registers would participate in the operation. However, when more than one index register was selected, then their contents were or'ed – not added – together before the decrement took place." (Wikipedia) 19:39:56 That sounds p. strange. 19:41:56 Also, dot has now spent 408 CPU-minutes, and still shows no signs of being done. 19:48:34 -!- password2 has joined. 19:49:39 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 19:52:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 19:53:15 -!- password2 has joined. 19:54:30 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:54:50 https://bug985155.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=8409733 Mother Fucking NOP Sled 19:54:58 -!- Melvar has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:03:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png hahaha oh my god 20:04:50 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:07:28 Why does mozilla even support "Some (old) Linux kernels on ARM" 20:07:49 Oh, phones. Of course. 20:08:02 Phantom_Hoover: one of the greatest graphs ever made. 20:08:07 The platform is still tagged "x86_64 Linux". 20:13:20 "A former Intel official reported that the Itanium business had become profitable for Intel in late 2009." 20:16:59 :legacy: support 20:24:47 -!- tertu has joined. 20:27:45 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:28:20 Bike: wtf! 20:28:59 -!- conehead has joined. 20:29:21 Oh, Itanium. EPIC failure. 20:30:16 /aɪˈteɪniəm/ I didn't know it's pronounced like that. 20:30:35 @wn titanium 20:30:38 *** "titanium" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 20:30:38 titanium 20:30:38 n 1: a light strong grey lustrous corrosion-resistant metallic 20:30:38 element used in strong lightweight alloys (as for airplane 20:30:38 parts); the main sources are rutile and ilmenite [syn: 20:30:38 {titanium}, {Ti}, {atomic number 22}] 20:31:17 /taɪˈteɪniəm/ oh, right, I guess it just drops the initial t. Makes sense. 20:31:41 I pronounce it ee-tanium, partly because I'm from Germany. 20:32:11 Itan? 20:33:15 Are there any Transmeta like architectures left? Or any other VLIW survivors? 20:37:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR-V but they seem to no longer be used for supercomputers 20:38:01 There are some VLIW(-ish) DSPs, I think. 20:39:40 E.g. the TI TMS320C6x series, there's one of those in my phone. 20:42:15 Oh Wikipedia seems to be helpful for once. "Embedded VLIW products are available from several vendors, including the FR-V from Fujitsu, the BSP15/16 from Pixelworks, the ST231 from STMicroelectronics, the TriMedia from NXP, the CEVA-X DSP from CEVA, the Jazz DSP from Improv Systems, and Silicon Hive. The Texas Instruments TMS320 DSP line has evolved, in its C6xxx family, to look more like a VLIW, in contrast to the earlier... 20:42:21 ...C5xxx family." 20:43:10 "Outside embedded processing markets, Intel's Itanium IA-64 EPIC and Elbrus 2000 appear as the only examples of a widely used VLIW CPU architectures." 20:43:13 (Also from said page.) 20:43:46 dsps continue to be weird ass shit, i see 20:44:58 DSPs are special; they only run inner loops so code bloat (and corresponding hogging of a memory bus, and often they have separate code and data memory anyway) is less of an issue. 20:46:10 Perhaps they should mention GPUs, too. 20:46:16 It does mention GPUs. 20:46:30 "VLIWs also gained significant consumer penetration in the GPU market, though both Nvidia and AMD have since moved to RISC architectures in order to improve performance on non-graphics workloads." 20:46:31 (the failed Larrabee architecture aside) 20:47:32 thanks. 20:48:03 TI C5x has a couple of specific "parallel" instructions, stuff like ST B, *AR4+0% || MPY *AR2+, B but that's not quite even LIW since, despite the fancy syntax, it's just a single "compound" instruction. 20:50:45 Is there a name for the kind of architecture used by GPUs? I use "SIMD for morons" but it's not very suitable for a polite setting 20:51:35 For the record, that does "write old value of B to memory pointed by AR4, then increment AR4 by AR0 except modulo some registers; meanwhile, compute the product of the value in memory at AR2 and the T register, store it as new value of B and post-increment AR2". 20:51:49 why is it for morons 20:56:23 It seems to be SIMD disguised as some kind of multithreading--because, as everyone knows, multithreading is simpler and less confusing 20:56:48 Actually, the proper name seems to be "stream processing" 20:56:58 http://www.yosefk.com/blog/simd-simt-smt-parallelism-in-nvidia-gpus.html 20:57:00 MEANWHILE IN /R/BITCOIN: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23leue/sir_richard_branson_bitcoin_is_the_pioneer_of_a/cgyb3y3?context=3 20:57:02 it's not SIMD. 20:57:06 conspiraception 20:57:33 coinspiraception 20:57:46 You realize the trolls and shills are just downvoting everything now. They don't want this sub to function at all, even if that means false flag attacking themselves. 20:58:20 the lack of criticism of bitcoin is a conspiracy by bitcoin haters. 20:59:45 bitcoin is actually a massive false-flag created by the nsa so they could practise their trolling 21:00:15 that's just what they WANT you to think!! 21:00:22 Phantom_Hoover: what do you think of newcombe's problem 21:00:30 That's just what the conspiracy theorists want you to think 21:00:35 newcomb's problem I mean >_< 21:00:51 itt: GPU acceleration for homespring 21:03:39 kmc, seems interesting, does it have anything to do with bitcoin or were you just thinking about it anyway 21:04:04 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:04:10 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:06:09 the latter 21:07:29 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:12:46 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39390&oldid=39389 * Kinnla * (+945) /* universal print */ new section 21:24:18 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:25:29 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:25:37 -!- tertu has joined. 21:32:05 http://cynic.me/2014/04/18/why-rich-people-should-do-less-time-in-prison-than-poor-people/ ow ow ow why did i delve deeper into this blog 21:32:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:32:51 i am kinda disapponted that none of the rail people are here 21:33:30 `coins 21:33:32 faciatiocoin substrecoin haircoin indcoin barintcoin rfolucoin l332coin intercoin funacoin mkbl-lncoin tletcoin 6ixcoin breatumcoin woldcoin prishcoin estcoin ragencoin autioncomplingcoin codecoin ajlycoin 21:33:48 1332? 21:34:29 Phantom_Hoover: "Yes," i think to myself, "From the title visible in the URL, I assume this will be an enlightening read, well worth my time I could be spending on video games." 21:34:51 Bike: spoiler: it's not that rich people should do less time in prison, it's that tax is theft! 21:34:56 I wish I was kidding but this is actually the punchline to the post. 21:35:47 The tax curve should be adjusted so that the 99% poorest people are below it 21:40:38 progressive tax is punishing the rich for being rich, jafet 21:41:14 these mansions aren't going to buy themselves 21:41:35 Mansions create jobs 21:46:37 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39391&oldid=39390 * Myname * (+205) 21:46:54 prisons create jobs too 21:47:02 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:00:37 that's why it's important to lock people up for owning a small amount of a plant 22:00:39 -!- boily has joined. 22:00:42 hoily 22:04:54 kmchello. 22:05:10 Bike: I metaphorically hate you. 22:05:34 wahat 22:06:22 my legs hurt. first day of the year riding a bike. 22:06:31 boily: i present you with an apology gift https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAsPeY8BsQU 22:08:47 I am... 22:08:51 I feel weird. 22:10:08 Bike: how is that a gift? 22:10:26 well he's probably forgotten about his legs 22:11:02 I AM FINE" EVERYTHING IS FINE" ALL IS WELL" ALL HAIL FUNGOOOOOOOOOÓÓÓÓT¨¨¨ 22:11:15 awesome, I just installed gnome-terminal and the default color scheme is black on black 22:11:18 i love desktop linux 22:11:24 kmc: :D 22:11:36 sounds a tiny little bit like irony 22:11:40 kmc: oh, I never managed to get that one. 22:12:52 Try the bob dylan color scheme 22:13:05 Jafet: what is a bob dylan colour scheme? 22:13:13 quintopia: quinthellopia. 22:14:13 the answer, boily, is blowing in the wind 22:16:17 OKÉ 22:17:05 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:17:50 If you didn't like the bob dylan color scheme, I guess you'll just need to go with amy winehouse. 22:19:21 i see a red terminal and i want it painted black 22:21:17 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:21:37 at least black on black is easy on the eyes 22:24:26 (Maybe they were inspired by the peril sensitive sunglasses from the Hitchhiker's trilogy?) 22:25:12 -!- tertu has joined. 22:29:41 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:33:55 Hmm, I just saw someone send a message before entering the channel. 22:34:19 What kind of network setup even allows that. 22:36:05 Hmm. Two ideas: a) a client might delay displaying joins to be able to combine several of them into a single line 22:36:12 b) a channel might not have +n set. 22:38:49 Otherwise I agree; messages related to the same client /should/ not be transmitted out of order by an IRC network, which classically had an acyclic graph topology. 22:38:51 I think +n is default on freenode 22:39:03 But is that true for Freenode? 22:39:11 (The topology thing) 22:40:19 Could be some weird network load balancing thing. 22:40:21 fungot: what is freenode's topology? 22:40:22 boily: mr president, i would say to you that thanks to a deeper level of cooperation and not, therefore, undeniable that parliament is entitled to their say and to be handled under the commission's aegis. 22:40:50 fungot: what's an ægis? 22:40:50 boily: this is a transitional period, the epidemiology of rabies in cats and dogs from nearly 500 in 1991 to just 5 in 1998. a systematic survey of the situation. 22:41:21 fungot: oh. so a deeply cooperative topology over a transitional period. poor cats and dogs, but if IRC is a stake, then so be it. 22:41:21 boily: i wish to begin by congratulating the rapporteur, mrs fnord buitenweg, is basically supporting israel's barbaric behaviour. i can see, however, since, for example in the case of mr kostas kastanias and other people who are now to be reduced significantly. that, of course, enforcement of measures is a great mistake to confuse the two. 22:42:06 fungot: ah. lets unleash the SPCA on the vile Mrs. Fnord Buitenweg, for applying cruel measures to network communication! 22:42:06 boily: mr president, this is an intolerable situation! he must either resign or tell us who does what, and can be adhered to in all places where the citizens of europe and beyond in the coming years for precisely this reason that this parliament will see fit to accept it. 22:42:12 kmc, Bike: i have given the newcomb's problem question (with $1 and 1¢) to people twice and predicted them correctly both times 22:47:31 and what were the resutls 22:48:15 a client might delay displaying joins to be able to combine several of them into a single line <-- you know, this would actually be kind of nice, but just in the rendering 22:48:20 one of them one-boxed and got $1, one of them two-boxed and got 1¢ 22:48:28 ah heh. 22:49:00 of course many people in my reference class consider 1¢ to be of zero or negative value 22:49:20 You should apply for a bigger grant 22:49:23 lexande: what is your prediction for me 22:49:28 http://www.americanladderinstitute.org/Standards.aspx only $200 22:49:29 i,i people in my reference prototype 22:49:47 Reference iframe 22:49:47 Oh! What a nice problem. 22:49:49 lexande: where's that comic about ladders 22:50:20 kmc: http://unnecessaryinsufficient.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/ladder/ this one? 22:50:40 good punchline 22:52:37 (The concept of an accurate predictor is ... interesting.) 22:52:53 yeah 22:53:00 it doesn't have to be that good though 22:53:17 and our entire civilization is based on agents imperfectly predicting each other 22:53:41 hm SCIgen is like a CAPTCHA for science journals :P 22:53:58 Does the problem change if the test subject knows that you base your predictions on what the previous test subjects picked 22:53:59 lexande: so is there empirical evidence that following acausal decision theory in real-world situations produces better outcomes? 22:56:52 oerjan: a pretty good one, evidently 22:56:54 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:59:38 oerjan: you reminded me of my Duty. thørjan. 23:00:06 do i remind you of your duty simply by existing 23:00:24 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:02:12 Bike: well, few fake journals were even trying to defeat this captcha 23:03:10 oerjan: you'd be the knot in my handkerchief if I had one. 23:03:23 maybe some will implement automated checks for scigen papers now 23:05:18 boily: eww 23:06:23 lexande: that was discussed in the logs 23:06:31 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:06:40 apparently springer is introducing one 23:07:45 oerjan: if I had a nice silken handkerchief, I'd keep it extra clean. probably put some shiny brocade on it. with my initials, in a nice blackletter font. 23:08:03 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:08:13 what is the point of a hankerchief if you keep it extra clean 23:08:17 http://www.springer.com/about+springer/media/statements?SGWID=0-1760813-6-1460747-0 "An automatic SCIgen detection system is being integrated in Springer’s submission check system, and we will offer this system to our conference proceedings partners, who will be trained in its use." 23:08:20 i'm with lexande 23:09:39 lexande: decoration, class, just for having something silky on you... 23:09:53 (you never know, it may save the day one time! just like regexpes!) 23:10:07 boily: handkerchiefs go in your pocket 23:10:16 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:10:16 unless you are using them to make something else less dirty 23:10:42 regexpes save my day all the time 23:10:44 you know, with very high-class tuxedoes, that thing in the breast pocket? 23:10:51 smoke regexps every day 23:10:57 their banach-tarski nature notwithstanding 23:17:23 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:19:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: BANANANACH TARSKI). 23:21:50 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:22:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:23:49 -!- ^v has joined. 23:25:46 -!- tromp has joined. 23:27:47 -!- augur has joined. 23:30:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:36:26 -!- maurer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:44:53 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:45:35 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:46:14 -!- MoALTz has joined. 2014-04-22: 00:17:35 -!- tertu has joined. 00:18:59 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 00:22:05 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:25:25 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:31:04 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23m2rw/how_to_go_about_buying_somewhat_large_number_of/ 00:32:04 -!- ter2 has joined. 00:32:04 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:33:36 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:35:02 -!- tertu3 has joined. 00:38:41 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:57:15 -!- tertu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:57:28 -!- tertu3 has joined. 01:18:36 -!- Melvar has joined. 01:41:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:42:22 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:42:22 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:42:46 -!- maurer has joined. 01:43:30 Bike: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=PPSSSVZITVPZDR "Optimized as a Scrypt miner, Coin Miner and GPU Server" 01:45:06 "OUT OF STOCK." 01:46:02 The system is not limited to mining only Litecoin. It can also mine Peercoin, Namecoin, Primecoin, Dogecoin, and even Bitcoin. 01:50:07 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:52:10 -!- tertu has joined. 01:54:14 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:09:53 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:29:14 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39392&oldid=39391 * Oerjan * (+135) unsigned deluge 02:32:11 -!- ^v has joined. 02:32:38 [wiki] [[Talk:Rail]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39393&oldid=39392 * Oerjan * (+0) How did you manage to get the date wrong? 02:32:56 myname: INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW 02:39:05 [wiki] [[Esolang:Sandbox]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39394&oldid=39199 * Oerjan * (+74) 02:42:43 @tell fizzie I am somewhat disturbed by the wiki apparently now adding signature dates in EDT timezone... 02:42:43 Consider it noted. 02:43:02 still doesn't explain what happened to myname though 02:43:56 -!- tertu has joined. 02:48:59 `date -u 02:49:00 Tue Apr 22 02:48:55 UTC 2014 02:51:10 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:52:23 @tell myname ok i have you under suspicion of mangling the times on your talk post signatures tdnh 02:52:23 Consider it noted. 02:53:04 i am pretty sure http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:MarioLANG&diff=prev&oldid=37550 does _not_ have the timezone difference in the right direction. 02:53:43 admittedly he only ever made two signatures. 03:00:24 Am I a horrible person for suggesting a show implementation that differs from gshow? 03:00:25 http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/23hcu2/is_there_a_way_to_modify_the_default/cgynogf 03:03:01 no, just out of all proportion hth 03:04:52 adolf 'a show implementation' hitler 03:05:41 he did it all for show 03:06:03 How about on a scale from 'completely ok' to 'writing a Typeable instance manually' 03:07:04 i think writing a Typeable instance manually has recently become impossible, hasn't it? 03:07:52 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:07:54 or maybe it's just wishful thinking. 03:09:49 I think so 03:13:19 as someone who has written show instances over newtypes to make strings show up as raw characters, and matrices as 2d tables, i may not be qualified to judge. 03:13:35 admittedly this was only to make some things more convenient in ghci. 03:14:38 Not so much worried about the custom show instance as having the custom show instance disagree with the GShow instance 03:15:09 hm i may not know what GShow is. 03:15:19 A version of Show that uses GHC.Generics 03:16:04 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/generic-deriving-1.6.3/docs/Generics-Deriving-Show.html 03:16:38 err why is it using OverlappingInstances 03:18:27 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:26:51 Generics have an interesting property... they tend to define a default function, and even in the class that you can normally instantiate without definition, you still can provide a definition based on that default function, assuming it's exported 03:30:14 @tell Taneb congrats on your gsoc project (and good luck) 03:30:14 Consider it noted. 03:33:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:35:56 I feel sad that I never did gsoc 03:37:04 it was fun 03:40:20 -!- tertu has joined. 03:52:43 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:52:43 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:58:13 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 04:00:49 Outlook scared me for a second when the top of the email list suddenly said Yesterday 04:03:43 haha 04:14:59 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:16:19 i think there are some (narrow) circumstances where running a program in valgrind makes it easier to exploit 04:16:37 because valgrind supports these "client requests" which allow the program to ask valgrind to do various things 04:18:27 You can't turn those off? 04:19:26 i didn't see a way 04:22:18 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:31:19 Does anyone other than SQLite making people, would want to be able to specify order of triggers being fired in SQL? 04:36:05 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:36:24 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:36:59 -!- tromp has joined. 04:41:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:41:27 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 04:47:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:56:23 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:57:56 -!- fowl has joined. 04:58:16 hello 04:59:27 hi 05:03:19 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:03:41 oerjan: Must be a side effect of the upgrade. What did it used to do? 05:03:59 UTC 05:05:04 Well, that seems like the second most reasonable thing to do. 05:05:15 second? 05:05:21 what's the first then. 05:05:24 The most reasonable thing would, of course, be Swatch Internet Time. 05:05:29 aaaaaaaaah. 05:07:52 It should be back in UTC now. 05:08:18 you know php has a time format for swatch beats 05:09:44 I think I knew that. 05:10:52 ...so this could actually be done. 05:11:12 fowl: i see you have joined us for reasons of evil, then. 05:12:33 (or are you a returned old regular in thin disguise? those happen.) 05:13:22 no i just saw mention of the channel on esolangs.org 05:13:31 ah 05:14:12 I was this || close to advertising the #esoteric recent-change notifications there. 05:14:16 (if you are hagb4rd YOU ARE FOOLING NO ONE WITH YOUR CLOAK. if not, disregard this message.) 05:14:46 lol 05:15:24 fungot: Welcome a new friend, will you. 05:15:25 fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, it is therefore in agreement with the government's suggestion that the proposals of the irish stability programme. in the case of australia it is a pity that the report from the committee, on which i have mentioned, i do not. 05:16:29 pretty good style for welcoming, that. 05:18:38 -!- ter2 has joined. 05:19:57 fungot: hail to the thief 05:19:58 kmc: madam president, i welcome this but to avoid the problems of the on board diagnostic systems, there is still an anathema justifying the present reign of terror. there is currently a democratically elected president of sierra leone, when they took into account likely developments up until the end of 2001 so there is certainly confusion about definitions within the directives and the instrument for cultural diversity in euro 05:20:45 fizzie: you should add the Enron Corpus to fungot 05:20:45 kmc: mr president, mr president-in-office of the council with a view to ensuring the economic and social committee ( sec(1999) 414 c50008/ 1999 1999/ fnord and ii. on the question of the natural environment, much of the council and take over these matters, in other words assists producers to continue with their prohibitionist policies. i would also like to thank parliament as a political message to the people. 05:20:47 ^style 05:20:48 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 05:20:50 wait!! 05:20:53 ^style enron 05:20:53 Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) 05:21:01 fungot: what do you think about that! 05:21:01 kmc: could we schedule more rate cuts tied to any specific points. 05:21:24 fungot: is it buy low, sell high or the other way around? i can never remember 05:21:24 kmc: plan that the commission: " a registration happy to do that. 05:21:43 buy sober, sell high 05:30:18 kmc: It's not been very well-sanitized w.r.t. unwrapping lines back to paragraphs, and maybe the training parameters were not quite fungot-optimal either. 05:30:19 fizzie: from the week on the key. 05:31:06 ^style youtube 05:31:06 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 05:31:13 fungot, entrain me 05:31:13 fowl: that game was bashing crackheads in the description! it's when the music is best super bowl? 05:31:36 youtube comments are the best forum for intellectual discussion 05:32:05 That's comments from somewhere around three videos, so it's a bit repetitive. 05:32:13 (The data was contributed by someone else.) 05:32:13 oerjan: pretty sure you're hagb4rd. 05:32:45 curses fowled again 05:33:55 fizzie: what do you think of newcomb's problem? 05:33:59 fungot: what do you think of newcomb's problem? 05:33:59 kmc: no it wasn't. can you clarify us why you assume i like 05:36:36 kmc: I read the Wikipedia article about it when you were asking around yesterday, but for some reason did not form any kind of coherent opinion on the subject. 05:49:43 -!- password2 has joined. 05:51:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:18:38 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:19:33 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 06:20:28 -!- heroux has joined. 06:28:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:44:26 Bah, (based on the tracking page) FedEx guy had been at my door maybe 15 minutes after I had left. Of course. 06:46:59 On some TV show they said that, in the 9/11 explosion, the government refused to investigate to find explosive in the building. I don't know where they got that information, but if it is true, then probably they are trying to hide something. 06:47:30 noted 06:49:37 "NIST did not test for explosive compound residue in steel samples, stating the potential for inconclusive results, and noting that similar compounds would have been present during construction of the towers." 06:49:46 probably they've been infilitrated 06:50:27 who knows what they did or didnt test for, everything was under wraps 06:51:08 Dual_EC_DRGB was an inside job? 06:52:09 has anyone actually ever met anyone from wisconsin because i'm pretty sure it's not real 06:56:06 Bike, ive been "there" but its possible everybody in the town was playing a joke on me 07:14:06 Bike: imo bielefeld 07:14:21 yeah 07:22:16 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:27:58 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:29:58 -!- Tritonio has joined. 07:38:50 -!- slereah has joined. 07:38:52 Hello 07:48:48 Hi! 07:50:47 slelloreah 08:01:18 -!- tswett has joined. 08:01:18 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 08:01:18 -!- tswett has joined. 08:10:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 08:11:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:24:19 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:28:14 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:28:33 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:28:34 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:30:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:01:24 @run [(m*m-n*n,2*m*n,m*m+n*n)|m<-[1..],n<-[1..m],odd m/=odd n,gcd m n==1] 09:01:28 [(3,4,5),(5,12,13),(15,8,17),(7,24,25),(21,20,29),(9,40,41),(35,12,37),(11,6... 09:19:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:19:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:40:09 -!- scoff has joined. 09:44:24 -!- shikhout has joined. 09:47:32 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:47:34 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 10:02:17 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 10:02:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 10:07:56 -!- ejls_ has joined. 10:08:07 -!- ejls has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:13:17 -!- boily has joined. 10:43:09 -!- yorick has joined. 10:50:27 -!- ejls_ has changed nick to ejls. 11:01:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿). 11:31:42 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 11:33:55 hmm. the @faq social experiment is showing first results. " int-e: is lambda bot heavily loaded lately? @faq is acting funny, and some of edward's lens golf hit mueval limit exceeded on tiny examples" 11:34:47 (I'll have an eye on the load now. Since lambdabot is running inside a VM I can only assess it indirectly.) 12:04:12 [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Maximaman * New user account 12:07:56 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:12:26 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:16:52 -!- nucular has joined. 12:16:52 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 12:16:52 -!- nucular has joined. 12:21:08 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:21:58 -!- ter2 has joined. 12:22:19 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:25:42 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:31:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:31:18 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:34:42 -!- edwardk has joined. 12:40:13 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:42:02 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:43:07 -!- Patashu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:43:18 -!- Patashu has joined. 12:52:17 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:56:53 -!- tromp has joined. 13:02:17 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:15:14 -!- edwardk has joined. 13:26:03 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:31:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:40:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:43:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:48:56 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 13:54:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:57:50 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:24:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:26:09 -!- xpte has joined. 14:27:14 -!- tertu3 has joined. 14:30:18 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:37:47 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:38:06 -!- tswett has joined. 14:38:06 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:38:06 -!- tswett has joined. 14:40:28 -!- password2 has joined. 14:40:49 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:42:18 -!- password2 has joined. 14:43:45 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:44:20 -!- password2 has joined. 14:49:32 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has left. 14:54:48 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:58:29 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 14:59:47 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:10:31 [wiki] [[Hsamsniarb]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39395 * 188.67.13.130 * (+1032) Created page with "Hsamsniarb is a joke programming language you can't even create a "Hello, World!" program in. (Hsamsniarb is Brainsmash backwards.) == Interpreters == The only current interp..." 15:19:16 wat 15:22:38 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:25:14 http://sprunge.us/DcJO <- that was supposed to be a 3 TB disk. 15:25:28 That's what the "WD30" stands for and all. 15:27:22 fizzie: maybe you need USB 3 15:27:42 for XHCI? 15:30:45 There's no USB 3 support in the disk enclosure. 15:31:01 Anyway, #esoteric told me 3 TB disks are no problem. 15:35:07 http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/node/1228 "Max. HDD capacity 2TB" 15:35:13 Shouldn't've trusted #esoteric, I see. 15:40:07 -!- tertu3 has joined. 15:43:02 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:44:33 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:47:14 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:47:15 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 15:55:17 -!- tertu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:55:35 -!- tertu3 has joined. 16:01:05 -!- slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:05:55 -!- tromp has joined. 16:06:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:10:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:10:12 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:16:20 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 16:39:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:42:19 -!- FreeFull has quit (Client Quit). 16:47:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:51:13 Trick Question: Is a a=(a)a; legal C code? 16:51:31 no macros in place 16:52:06 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 16:54:10 I'd say no, but I'm probably wrong 16:54:14 I'm going with yes 16:56:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:56:11 <`^_^v> i dont think so 16:56:18 It is legal with a typedef 16:56:34 I thought types and values shared a namespace, and it'd error or something 16:56:50 FireFly: You can't define int int 16:56:57 but you cane define typedef int a; a a 16:56:59 *can 16:57:22 I think 16:57:26 but let me check again 16:57:26 I can't see how the (a)a part is legal. 16:57:35 <`^_^v> ^ 16:57:43 ah right 16:57:46 a a=a*a is legal 16:57:50 but a a=(a)a isn't 16:58:02 I messed up. Sorry :( 16:58:16 That's because the scope of the variable "a" starts at the end of the declarator, and is therefore visible in the initializer. 16:58:34 Also, I think "a a=a*a" might be undefined behaviour, due to arithmetic on an uninitialized value. 16:58:51 Or at least potentially undefined if the type has trap representations, or w/ever. 16:59:47 (You also can't write { typedef int a; a a = 0; } so that they're in the same scope; the typedef needs to be outside the block.) 16:59:49 it's undefined probably 16:59:59 but you can go for a a=10;return a*a; 17:00:55 What if a is a struct rather than a typedef? 17:01:15 unless you typedef it, it would be referred to as struct a 17:01:31 Struct, union and enum tags are in a different namespace than ordinary identifiers. 17:01:33 Oh, OK 17:01:53 C++ lets you refer to "struct a" as plain "a", though. 17:03:24 beaky showed up in ##crypto 17:09:24 I recall seeing some C code that does typedef struct { ... } foo, *fooPtr; 17:09:33 if for some reason you want to write fooPtr instead of *foo 17:09:46 this confused me greatly because I was a wee lad and did not yet understand C's fucked up declaration syntax 17:09:57 That's crazy-common. 17:10:12 I guess maybe copied from the Windows API? 17:10:28 I don't get why people typedef pointers 17:10:31 It's full of typedef ... FOO, *PFOO, *LPFOO kind of stuff. 17:10:32 That's just stupid 17:10:40 You can't see it's a pointer anymore 17:10:49 if you're unable to see the letter "P", sure 17:11:03 so 17:11:11 is PAIR then a pointer to AIR? 17:11:17 or just a regular PAIR struct? 17:12:28 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:12:29 if you can't deal with that insignificant ambiguity I have no idea how you manage to use natural language 17:12:35 but okay, P_AIR then 17:13:09 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:15:50 or use the thing that's unambiguous and already part of the language 17:19:07 well, that's almost a legacy, since it is partially attributed to the near/far divide of pointers in the Win16 era 17:22:16 "Drive command "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately in off-line mode" successful. Testing has begun. Please wait 395 minutes for test to complete." 17:22:19 That's a long test. 17:22:54 gotta be sure. 17:24:06 (The disk works in this other USB dock I had, so I guess I'll just replace the old box with a more modern box.) 17:26:50 Is there a simple way to cause a program to wait for completion of SMART tests? Once I modified a Python program to add these test (and other changes, too), but I had to hard-code in the amount to wait. 17:27:48 I think the only way to know when it's done is to poll the drive. (The drive reports a "recommended polling time", too.) 17:36:38 -!- password2 has joined. 17:37:07 How would you do that? 17:40:28 I don't really know how you do it programmatically. With the "smartctl" tool, I guess one way would be to keep watching the self-test log for changes. There was something in the documentation about disks being different on whether they list the current self-test status in the "capability" command.) 17:40:50 "Their results are reported in the Self Test Error Log, readable with the ´-l selftest´ option. Note that on some disks the progress of the self-test can be monitored by watching this log during the self-test; with other disks use the ´-c´ option to monitor progress." 17:42:24 -!- conehead has joined. 17:44:34 Do you think this is OK for the C interface for Text Adventure Intermediate Language? http://sprunge.us/XWgX 18:06:32 who is 'you'? 18:07:42 TAIL? 18:08:24 and why does I_QUIT come first... 18:15:43 zzo38: why is there a taillib_open/_close pair rather than a Game *taillib_read(FILE *)? 18:18:24 int-e: I_QUIT comes first just because it is numbered zero. 18:18:53 fwiw, the question about I_QUIT wasn't a serious question. 18:19:06 The reason there is _open and _close is that the _close will free any memory allocating by the _open function. 18:19:23 sounds more like an _free to me. 18:20:29 Also, you can read/write at the current position in the file, so the same file can contain other things too (such as pictures, debug information, etc) if you want to do that. 18:21:37 I'd see that as an argument in favour of calling _open _read instead. 18:22:01 ("Read one game description"; it seems that in principle you could have several.) 18:22:23 You can call taillib_open(stdin) too if you want to. 18:23:17 That's even more reason to call it _read. 18:23:23 Thank you for your suggestion though; I could rename them, then. 18:23:59 Anyway the interface looks reasonable at a glance, and I'm not going to think about it in detail, i.e. from an actual game creation or execution perspective. 18:25:04 OK 18:26:10 I also intend to have a Haskell interface and a SQL interface available. Would you have idea about this, and/or do you like to have the interface for other programming language too? 18:29:02 (One thought perhaps, since I had it while going over the interface: If I were using a library to create game code, I'd appreciate some builder interface for sequences of instructions where I can add them sequentially, possibly with some support for labels. I guess a similar point can be made for the Text/Property/Object/Verb/Noun/Phrase arrays in the Game struct itself.) 18:32:00 Yes it would help. Just after I posted the file I forgot that I didn't add the unsigned short taillib_encode_jump(int pos,int dst) function into the header file yet; but then I did, and that is used for encoding branch targets. 18:33:10 I could add a function for appending an instruction, if that would help. 18:33:48 If doing in SQL and in Haskell, this appending is done more easily without a function call, but in a C code probably it would help to have such a thing. OK I can add it on 18:42:25 fungot: nobody knows the wreck of the soul the way you do 18:42:25 kmc: muito bom! shocking. but most of the plane wasn't remote-controlled; if you don't even bother. jaybedwell perfectly knows what they called the map but it really doesn't look too good 18:43:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:51:31 -!- vravn has quit (Quit: vravn goes). 18:56:10 -!- vravn has joined. 18:56:36 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 19:03:03 ^style 19:03:03 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube* 19:03:17 Should've guessed from the plane. 19:08:07 ^style discworld 19:08:07 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 19:08:19 fungot: Meow 19:08:19 FreeFull: ' it's a trick. the wish is trying to learn fnord' he murmured, as he struck. ' you did well there," said granny 19:09:45 well done fungot 19:09:45 olsner: " so it's back to the suffering head waiter. ' same again, mister.' 19:14:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:27:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:42:06 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone (forced)). 20:00:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 20:20:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:39:54 testing a memory error detector is kind of fun: https://github.com/kmcallister/vgrs/blob/master/test/memcheck.rs 20:39:58 lots of working around optimizations 20:40:33 also the entire program is UB, of course 20:40:41 UB? 20:40:50 undefined behavior 20:40:55 Right 20:41:05 The only thing I could think of was "Utter Bullshit" 20:44:04 hahaha 20:44:09 basically the same 20:44:16 I might start using that :) 20:44:52 wait does rust have a definition 20:46:01 can you make a working C program entirely out of UB? 20:46:02 -!- tswett has joined. 20:46:03 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 20:46:03 -!- tswett has joined. 20:46:19 a working gcc program, perhaps 20:47:12 Bike: http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/master/rust.html 20:47:18 it seems trivial, but then again lots of stuff actually *is* defined, and you can't use any of it 20:47:24 shocking 20:52:13 right, I meant something more like working in most/some C compilers but completely outside C the language ... technically it probably wouldn't be a C program at all 20:52:45 http://flossgold.tumblr.com/ 20:54:27 are those all from http://opensslrampage.org/ 20:55:00 looks like it 20:59:26 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:03:10 http://codepad.org/FNeda0KY i am afraid 21:07:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:10:13 speaking of openssl, http://www.libressl.org/ got a nice redesign recently to "motivate" people to donate 21:10:22 use a browser with blink tags for the full effect 21:10:50 Yeah 21:10:56 I was disappointed my IE didn't support those 21:11:30 too bad it only works on people with an aversion to Comic Sans 21:11:33 My FF doesn't either 21:11:46 chrome neither 21:11:50 Well 21:11:52 who does then? 21:12:00 pre-chromium opera does 21:12:06 Hm. 21:12:07 ic. 21:12:30 they should've used marquee 21:12:44 FF still supports marquee 21:12:46 marqueeeee 21:13:09 Else my legit webshop page would look stupid 21:13:13 if marquee wouldn't work 21:13:30 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:13:34 ain't no legit webshop without marquee 21:16:39 I'm not sure if I can ask JavaScript to give me all blink tags 21:16:52 and make them blink again with JavaScript sorcery 21:17:13 <`^_^v> sure you can 21:17:45 implement and as Web Components 21:18:14 it's like a co-polyfill 21:18:30 speaking of marquees, http://marquee.olsner.se/ (all warranties void and null. in chrome, make sure to stop it before it eats your ram) 21:19:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:20:16 I wonder if putting each iframe in its own domain could fool chrome into making a new process for each one, that might make it even more fun 21:20:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye). 21:22:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:24:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 21:25:57 servo will run them in different Rust tasks 21:25:58 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:26:00 except that iframes are broken right now 21:26:13 also