< 1397348293 204607 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1397348310 188545 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397348490 521982 :Tritonio1!~Thunderbi@79.141.173.63 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1397348572 191229 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@93.190.140.196 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397348592 307790 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397348706 612352 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1397348707 860211 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many text adventure games use a virtual machine, which is then run in the interpreter. I have a bit different idea, to instead make a intermediate code, which is then compiled by the OEM into the proper code for the machine and then put into a disk, tape, ROM cartridge, or internet. Probably it would run faster like that and possibly smaller file too. < 1397348733 49484 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it is compiled into a 6502 code, x86 code, or possibly even a C code. < 1397348753 540239 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it wouldn't matter too much though -- zcode tends to be pretty swift on most platforms. :) < 1397349029 67332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is; I have written interpreters for Z-code. < 1397349144 903558 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is, though, also TADS, Glulx, Level 9 A-code, OASYS, and others. (I have worked with OASYS, too; it is designed to be interpreted but could be compiled too due to its Restricted-Harvard format.) < 1397349263 858257 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most of them have some complexity involved, so a simpler format can be made, and make it fit on smaller ROM cartridges. Some older computers don't have lowercase, and omit some other ASCII characters too; using only uppercase and also improve text compression. (Z-machine version 3 can run on uppercase-only computers, but mixed-case text is still needed in the story file.) < 1397349365 87222 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you familiar with Linus Akesson's Zeugma? < 1397349371 890003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know of it. < 1397349390 290386 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also, made part of a Z-machine interpreter for Famicom, myself. < 1397349405 132083 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which isn't tested and probably contains many errors) < 1397349506 852204 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here is the entire code so far of Famicom Z-machine: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Famicom_Z-machine < 1397349558 557877 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe Zeugma is for version 4, 5, 8. My program is for version 1, 2, 3. < 1397349686 780770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many Z-machine interpreters contain errors. < 1397349700 969674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly any implements permanent shifts correctly. < 1397349786 329711 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many examples of version 1-3 Z-code are there? < 1397349806 441880 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small handful of early Infocom games? < 1397349841 700207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many, actually. < 1397349851 7481 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most Infocom games are version 3 < 1397349918 290063 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1397349944 169378 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397350142 78315 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me if you find my program to be OK and/or anything you think is wrong with it, please. < 1397350478 775213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A compiled system would probably work better though, especially if it is far simpler than Z-machine. < 1397350551 920881 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397350842 71599 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1397350976 285523 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many different SQL "CREATE FUNCTION" syntaxes are there? < 1397351039 984414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Night < 1397351185 955684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a lot of different ones, and there are more differences when aggregate functions are involved too. < 1397351445 44852 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1397351623 976135 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397352103 283779 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/01/microsoft-pimps-it-old-school-with-a-pricey-text-adventure-game/ < 1397352256 530710 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is disappointing. < 1397352717 164428 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397352720 125607 :drlemon_!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397354206 197108 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@93.190.140.196 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397354249 380625 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :D < 1397354370 44949 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1397354817 236353 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397354986 922376 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1397355989 867873 :SleepyPikachu!~elliot@46.33.31.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397356005 180255 :SleepyPikachu!~elliot@46.33.31.82 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1397356967 964897 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guess Erlang is a language that you don't want to use as just a general make-yourself-a-better-programmer language? At least, I have a feeling that let-it-crash may be a bad idea to bring into non-Erlang ecosystems < 1397356998 581523 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a pretty big fan of let-it-crash tbh < 1397357013 758976 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But does that work outside of Erlang? < 1397357065 686648 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can design systems that way in any language(s) < 1397357069 502227 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang may make it easier < 1397357079 545397 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional programming in C is also quite popular < 1397357152 388306 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should get more understanding of let it crash < 1397357176 252298 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a cryptographic primitive that fails quickly and blatantly if a precondition isn't met is an example? < 1397357183 935114 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know the finer points of it eithe < 1397357184 756492 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :r < 1397357190 880220 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust lost linked task failure :/ < 1397357194 858891 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional programming in C? But, then you would need a user-parameter. < 1397357197 558233 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a real pita < 1397357197 748684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it? < 1397357205 802809 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just imagine myself standing over a flaming computer and laughing < 1397357207 479709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yeah, and void* user parameters are quite popular < 1397357213 581375 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU GOT WHAT YOU DESERVED < 1397357217 529719 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's kind of a joke to call that functional programming < 1397357232 668675 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people don't much write higher order combinators around their closure structs in C < 1397357239 162440 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even people who went to MIT < 1397357244 876809 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, a lot of SQLite API functions that will call back functions, will have void* user parameters. < 1397357275 405333 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it isn't real functional programming, but it would be one thing you would require, if you are to start trying to make functional programming in a C code. < 1397357535 25209 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Extwo 5* 10New user account < 1397357933 636751 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still it isn't quite real function programming; functional programming isn't a C code anyways! < 1397358247 108232 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functional programming that can be spoken of is not the true functional programming < 1397358294 283803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made this "text adventure intermediate language". It has 36 opcodes (actually, 90 if you count the operand size bits), although some don't need to be implemented. It is possible for SAVE, LPTON, LPTOFF, PICTURE to all be no-operations; it is OK for QUIT and RESET to have the same operation as each other, and if SAVE isn't implement, RESTORE? can act the same as JUMP. < 1397358393 97558 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary and decimal numbers are treated differently, for compatibility with computers where such a thing would help. The high bit of a variable number is set to use that variable as a decimal number (although it takes up the same memory as the binary variables). < 1397359981 689287 :drlemon_!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359982 512983 :jconn!~va@1-130.ipswich.cc.colocall.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359984 164429 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359984 470996 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359984 661916 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359984 852820 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359985 43295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359985 233984 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359985 695010 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359986 185033 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 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:*.net *.split < 1397359993 214153 :douglass_!~iridium@home-on-the-dome.mit.edu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359993 632224 :vravn!~vravn@syn.rook.sx QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359994 193871 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rgusmrgpmawbpozh QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359994 384805 :JZTech101!jztech101@botters/jztech101 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359994 588067 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359995 653390 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359995 843946 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359996 660818 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359997 615995 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359998 395045 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359998 395158 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359999 171276 :int-e!~noone@88.198.179.137 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359999 362216 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359999 552911 :Speed`!~Speed@evile.thrash.im QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397359999 972777 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360000 163535 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360000 435906 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360001 672670 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360002 54250 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@irc.sellyme.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360002 245649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360002 967842 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360003 314542 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360003 783719 :jhj1!jhj@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:3efa QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360003 974825 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360005 137649 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360005 531548 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360005 722458 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360006 623016 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360006 972452 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360007 163112 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360007 163242 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360007 353950 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360007 544710 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360007 735338 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360007 735445 :ineiros!~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360008 421195 :lexande!arapp@131.215.176.115 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360008 612295 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360009 374165 :xpte!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mcsjcxnjewjtjnan QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360009 565078 :erdic!erdic@unaffiliated/motley QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360011 442437 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360012 479129 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360014 600189 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360014 790769 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360016 217051 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360016 407582 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360016 407715 :hexagon!nyuszika7h@pdpc/supporter/active/nyuszika7h QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360017 324487 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360017 817765 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397360018 8846 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397366206 118850 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119475 :douglass_!~iridium@home-on-the-dome.mit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119560 :Gracenotes!~person@192.241.203.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119625 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119689 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119751 :ejls!~ejls@ejls.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119815 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119878 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 119940 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120003 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120066 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120128 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120191 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120253 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120316 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120379 :jhj1!jhj@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:3efa JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120442 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120504 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120566 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@192.3.160.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120627 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120690 :drlemon_!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120752 :jconn!~va@1-130.ipswich.cc.colocall.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120814 :`^_^v!~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120876 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 120938 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 309817 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 309929 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 309993 :hexagon!nyuszika7h@pdpc/supporter/active/nyuszika7h JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 310096 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 310161 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366206 310226 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366212 845304 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366213 36401 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366213 36527 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366213 36594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366214 590153 :ineiros!~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366214 781650 :lexande!arapp@131.215.176.115 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366214 781774 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366287 187630 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366287 378246 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366287 378399 :idris-ircslave!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366307 976592 :erdic!erdic@2604:180::6050:fab4 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366308 167240 :CapitalSigma!~patrick@c-98-206-166-209.hsd1.il.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366308 167375 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 374850 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 565745 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 565913 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-154.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 565984 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566090 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566159 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566222 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566348 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566414 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566477 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566540 :maurer!~maurer@MIMUNG.ECE.CMU.EDU JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366320 566605 :realzies!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366324 239477 :vravn!~vravn@syn.rook.sx JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366324 430006 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rgusmrgpmawbpozh JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366324 430180 :JZTech101!jztech101@botters/jztech101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366324 430248 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397366495 809131 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png < 1397367081 924606 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@irc.sellyme.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 115584 :Speed`!~Speed@evile.thrash.im JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 115704 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 115773 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 115837 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 115901 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 116014 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 116077 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367082 116139 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1397367476 151089 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Boxy14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39305&oldid=39300 5* 03Zerk 5* (-1) 10/* Standard Library */ syntax < 1397367497 847868 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Smartboxes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39306&oldid=39303 5* 03Doesthiswork 5* (+541) 10 < 1397368449 324044 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397368957 481649 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397369330 215131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397369766 86357 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1397369789 880385 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want to know the context of every line of the Picard Song < 1397369983 644757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Hoorint-e! < 1397371062 817323 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397372533 230512 :MoALTz!~no@user-188-33-230-20.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1397372669 913588 :Patashu!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397372856 319598 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1397373322 308318 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.228 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397373534 195667 :elliott!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com NICK :Guest46968 < 1397374245 807940 :erdic!erdic@2604:180::6050:fab4 QUIT :Changing host < 1397374245 999569 :erdic!erdic@unaffiliated/motley JOIN :#esoteric < 1397374529 829433 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3 < 1397374619 312680 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.228 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397375314 297536 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397375329 307050 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.161.226 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397375707 105078 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-29-210.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1397376456 160956 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1397376881 326143 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.161.226 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397377107 258380 :Patashu!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1397377284 596356 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1397377435 498601 :applybot!~applybot@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1397377532 507527 :password2!~password@197.78.146.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380695 368660 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@irc.sellyme.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380695 752188 :Speed`!~Speed@evile.thrash.im QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380696 64418 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380696 257261 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380697 308381 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380697 671249 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380698 270201 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380698 461750 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380698 461778 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1397380785 689425 :Sellyme!~Sellyme@irc.sellyme.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290430 :Speed`!~Speed@evile.thrash.im JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290499 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f80b-12.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290526 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290552 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290579 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290604 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290633 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380786 290674 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1397380950 221465 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1397381504 740850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: STATUS UPDATE: 6011486208-byte partition sde2 extracted successfully overnight; turned out to be the / partition; had the crontab I was looking for, but scripts were in /home/foo for a system user foo, in flagrant disregard of FHS; now reading the rest. < 1397381605 220376 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I don't know if FHS really says anything about that, but I imagine it might.) < 1397381741 194083 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.144 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397382610 378342 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1397383184 775168 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1397383574 314898 :password2!~password@197.78.146.59 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397383795 671592 :password2!~password@197.78.146.59 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397384400 132984 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397384731 200903 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397384731 483462 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1397384932 309326 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397385118 166244 :Patashu[Zzz]!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397385243 226697 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.144 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397385264 173270 :Patashu[Zzz]!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397385264 400763 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1397385577 430739 :password2!~password@197.78.146.59 PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1397385591 175055 :Patashu!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397385793 219232 :Patashu[Zzz]!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397385993 245375 :Patashu!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397386104 765935 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397386300 336418 :Patashu[Zzz]!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397386300 560610 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1397386565 437908 :Patashu[Zzz]!Cyclear@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1397387131 752394 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1397387313 184768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1397387673 307476 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397387684 189408 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397387701 907577 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397387815 67758 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 [...] SAVE, LPTON, LPTOFF, PICTURE <-- you need a HDRON too hth < 1397387816 246326 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1397387846 128616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: you seem slow. < 1397387846 704186 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LPTON ICE < 1397387887 919317 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it is evil to pun zzo but i couldn't resist < 1397387961 475191 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRYON and MSON are optional. < 1397388001 437512 :Patashu[Zzz]!Igora@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397388002 907808 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1397388037 681066 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hadroff < 1397388077 515922 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds a bit like barking < 1397388110 354170 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's hard to tell who is slow on IRC < 1397388141 934945 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from here, the @tell and lambdabot's reply both had timestamp 13:16:55) < 1397388147 676876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm there's a big split gap in the logs < 1397388172 1734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: ok < 1397388180 776337 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone spammed freenode. < 1397388195 12291 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: big news < 1397388310 365569 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. impressive spew of k-lines. < 1397388413 848543 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. In other big news, Afghanistan held presidential elections for the first time in modern history. < 1397388762 442387 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1397388918 194304 :Patashu[Zzz]!Igora@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397388981 270740 :Patashu!Tenmu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1397388999 525049 :Patashu!Tenmu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1397389069 362518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm clog and glogbot were in different fragments but neither registered any talking. almost everyone who split split from both. < 1397389113 889883 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:03 --- quit: drlemon_ (*.net *.split) < 1397389114 81289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:04 --- quit: jconn (*.net *.split) < 1397389114 81359 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:07 --- quit: impomatic (*.net *.split) < 1397389114 81396 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:08 --- quit: trout (*.net *.split) < 1397389114 81432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:08 --- quit: scoff (*.net *.split) < 1397389116 740589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:09 --- quit: glogbot (*.net *.split) < 1397389118 932022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:11 --- quit: nisstyre (*.net *.split) < 1397389121 346611 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:11 --- quit: tromp_ (*.net *.split) < 1397389123 905439 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:11 --- quit: heroux (*.net *.split) < 1397389124 720361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1397389126 744504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:11 --- quit: Melvar (*.net *.split) < 1397389128 851201 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:12 --- quit: zzo38 (*.net *.split) < 1397389131 752660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:12 --- quit: TodPunk (*.net *.split) < 1397389133 851876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:13 --- quit: shachaf (*.net *.split) < 1397389134 559521 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :fizzie > 1397389134 571059 NAMES :#esoteric < 1397389136 756858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:14 --- quit: applybot (*.net *.split) < 1397389138 880377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:15 --- quit: jix (*.net *.split) < 1397389140 313736 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie MODE #esoteric +q :oerjan!*@* > 1397389140 326515 NAMES :#esoteric < 1397389148 118472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I assume a mispaste.) < 1397389159 401067 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if the faucet is still on. < 1397389160 598918 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie MODE #esoteric -q :oerjan!*@* > 1397389160 609853 NAMES :#esoteric < 1397389161 468061 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36:23 --- quit: ggherdov (*.net *.split) < 1397389163 918672 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PART :#esoteric < 1397389187 938219 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie MODE #esoteric -o :fizzie > 1397389187 949876 NAMES :#esoteric < 1397389196 776368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was spectacular. < 1397389224 273033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1397389228 153709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope parting flushed that buffer < 1397389239 280226 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to have. < 1397389239 601442 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what command does it. < 1397389261 638324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought irssi was supposed to have protection against this D: < 1397389297 116414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this touchpad is evil hth < 1397389297 331992 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is supposed to ask, but sometimes (if there's SSH lag or something) it doesn't realize. < 1397389340 352784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the protection is based on "N lines in K units of time" kind of rules. < 1397389340 584997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1397389350 684659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think i planned to increase that timeout once. < 1397389388 364159 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:43:16] paste_detect_time = 5msecs < 1397389388 555030 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode probably throttles input. < 1397389392 94229 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, like, 1499 km in speed-of-light terms. < 1397389434 759612 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good ol' zeroth order models. < 1397389434 951001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was 10 msecs i now increased it to 100 < 1397389504 193205 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt i manage to type a normal line in less than 0.1 s < 1397389580 194248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i had just copied and pasted that long list into vim to compare clog's view with glogbot's. < 1397389670 203347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: i'm pretty sure there was an election for karzai's second term? but this may have been the first time they handled it themselves. < 1397389698 314188 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, there were two elections, but people didn't seem to like those very much. < 1397389770 81126 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :( :t mkShow < 1397389770 270576 :idris-ircslave!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :09BotPrelude.mkShow : (13a -> 12String) -> 12Show 13a < 1397389925 821742 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally the only ones not split from clog were Gracenotes Taneb clog douglass_ ejls mroman, and the only ones not split from glogbot were glogbot impomatic scoff trout. < 1397389928 833244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1397390133 891447 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asleep, hth. < 1397390159 805083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you were in both lists. < 1397390183 269309 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe int-e's alibi. < 1397390269 597442 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves to oerjan :-) < 1397390286 486089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi impomatic < 1397390451 883489 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC alerted me so I zoomed across here in case everyone's talking about Core War or something :-D < 1397390492 742690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry it was just clog war < 1397390550 199594 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just mention this before I have lunch :-P http://corewar.co.uk/spring2014.htm < 1397390607 113706 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh also if you're interested in the history of worms / viruses I've found a description of one which possibly predates Creeper. < 1397390681 273436 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime oerjan < 1397390681 932789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for oerjan is Sun Apr 13 14:04:41 2014 < 1397390758 313924 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:38:35 --- [Users #esoteric] < 1397390758 505989 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:38:35 --> drlemon_ int-e jconn < 1397390782 982775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that "but the program must still behave essentially the same" sounds rather subjective for a computer tournament... < 1397390785 606402 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:40:24 --- glogbackup has joined #esoteric < 1397390817 570680 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then people started coming back 07:12:11 (all CET). That's my view of the netsplit. < 1397390848 931398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather fine fragments, i take. < 1397390977 976033 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :glogbot split a bit earlier and rejoined a little later. tunes still hasn't fixed its broken clock. < 1397390982 872137 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: btw UPPHETTA means to heat up (something) < 1397390996 272893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: what, with two t's? < 1397391014 160214 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other number of t's could there be? < 1397391028 46539 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :one two three? < 1397391029 173472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :one like in norwegian? (and english for that matter) < 1397391036 119495 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "other", so one or three ;) < 1397391037 511194 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(opphete) < 1397391074 971300 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"aufheizen" has no t at all (though you can count the implied one in the 'z') < 1397391094 274981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no:hette means hood. < 1397391105 302451 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be sv:hätta < 1397391160 806233 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, literally... hood would probably be sv:huva nowadays < 1397391206 55510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cap? < 1397391260 921559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what hue means in my dialect, although standard norwegian is lue. < 1397391308 619779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually more like huæ. < 1397391486 84574 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fr:chauffer. < 1397391495 871172 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The thin atmosphere prevents Mars from retaining any heat energy, so temperatures near the equator can get up to 70 degrees F during a summer day, and then drop down to minus 100 degrees F at night." < 1397391532 920297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know summer day temperatures on mars were so reasonable. < 1397391555 655704 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"up to" < 1397391613 28805 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 70 fahrenheit to celsius < 1397391616 932080 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: undefined symbol "fahrenheit". \ Bounds in range expression are of unsupported types: (70 fahrenheit (undefined symbol), celsius (undefined symbol)) \ at frink.expr.bh.byte(frink) \ at frink.expr.bh.evaluate(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseString(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseStrings(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink. < 1397391626 385403 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, 70 is about room temperature < 1397391647 896818 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo $(((70 - 32) * 5 / 9)) < 1397391648 424340 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 < 1397391670 788137 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 is good. I like 21. < 1397391820 836017 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the time period when mars may have had water is known as the "Noachian". although the implications are somewhat dampened by it being named after the region of Noachis Terra. < 1397391879 108094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr `frink has a weird way of converting temperatures, also your syntax is wrong for ordinary units as well, it's not a bloody natural language parser. < 1397391927 581774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sanetemp 70 < 1397391928 282357 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: sanetemp: not found < 1397391932 939772 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sanetemp 70 < 1397391934 669439 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :21.1 < 1397391946 736024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :!insanetemp 21.1 < 1397391947 296181 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :69.9 < 1397391949 982968 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show sanetemp < 1397391950 410880 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p" < 1397391959 407238 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :dampened, hmm. (damp = moist) < 1397391997 978375 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the intended pun. < 1397392034 750203 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what is istr twh < 1397392133 653193 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall < 1397392220 460342 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, twh is another acronym in the hth family. < 1397392309 181659 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it mean "that will help" or "that won't help"? ;-) < 1397392318 955307 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would help, iirc. < 1397392323 231338 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twh < 1397392323 801283 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. < 1397392329 959560 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | dc -e "1k?32-5*9/p"') > bin/sanetemp; chmod +x bin/sanetemp < 1397392331 600326 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1397392338 556892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`sanetemp 70 < 1397392339 139770 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21.1 < 1397392347 760240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show insanetemp < 1397392348 95761 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p" < 1397392372 58790 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run (echo '#!/bin/bash'; echo 'echo "$@" | dc -e "1k?9*5/32+p"') > bin/insanetemp; chmod +x bin/insanetemp < 1397392373 531126 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1397392383 818463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`insanetemp 21.1 < 1397392384 343514 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :69.9 < 1397392413 113373 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` cat <<<$SHELL < 1397392413 652594 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/sh < 1397392461 590433 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh on HackEgo does some bad things < 1397392478 710555 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file /bin/sh < 1397392479 371408 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/sh: symbolic link to `dash' < 1397392482 586314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular iirc you don't want to echo user input with it. < 1397392508 347487 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /bin/sh echo echo < 1397392508 810003 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/sh: 0: Can't open echo < 1397392512 617141 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beuh... < 1397392520 985290 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /bin/sh -c echo echo < 1397392521 471499 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1397392521 662339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing -c < 1397392535 251920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't break on _all_ input, mind you. < 1397392538 356000 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` /bin/sh -c "echo echo" < 1397392538 910616 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo < 1397392580 596262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite recall what caused the problem, but i think tabs may have been involved. < 1397392596 900602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1397392619 363726 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` echo -e '#!/bin/sh\necho "$@"' >bin/poulet; chmod +x bin/poulet < 1397392620 750370 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1397392633 853024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was when your input contained escape sequences like \n. < 1397392634 291129 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/` < 1397392634 915392 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec bash -c "$1" < 1397392645 462894 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's why <<< worked :) < 1397392659 209968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of unclear whether "insanetemp" (resp. "sanetemp") converts from insane to sane, or the other way around. < 1397392661 356562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet test\nho < 1397392661 865090 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test \ ho < 1397392674 294377 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet somethingsomething < 1397392674 757850 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somethingsomething < 1397392676 330914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's to hth < 1397392683 823334 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn. the tab didn't work. < 1397392685 563167 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it wasn't tabs, but \n < 1397392691 918618 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :^H isn't a tab < 1397392699 553686 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet something something < 1397392699 994076 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something something < 1397392710 887558 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I got slightly confused. < 1397392712 294180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to get it passed through unchanged. < 1397392720 766283 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet somethingsomething < 1397392721 315702 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somethingsomething < 1397392727 530276 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet something < 1397392727 957820 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something < 1397392729 382261 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :something < 1397392731 871207 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees nothing bad. < 1397392749 465770 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sucks at mental calculation and hexadecimal this morning. I deserve an automapole. < 1397392797 720068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: my test shows it. < 1397392802 869779 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Ohlo9ru5.png - wysiwyg < 1397392803 60814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet test\nho < 1397392803 449603 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :test \ ho < 1397392830 640576 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: you know you could be saved all this work if you paid attention to my self-corrections hth < 1397392859 771887 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEUAAAAAAAAARGH! < 1397392871 140152 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless it adds color codes, in which case they get filtered on my end) < 1397392879 307452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the idiom of using echo "$@" to pass command args unchanged as input to a command breaks with /bin/sh < 1397392919 977179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that is, it's not _supposed_ to turn that \n into a newline. < 1397392936 241204 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`poulet -? < 1397392936 758841 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-? < 1397392969 274550 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh. I have a file called -u in my home directory, how did that happen :) < 1397393000 869943 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :some curl mishap judgring by its content (a 401 error) < 1397393023 761849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i remember someone added a command to do this automatically... < 1397393028 824028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/*or* < 1397393029 558761 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/forget \ bin/fortune \ bin/joustreport \ bin/ord \ bin/ordu \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/rainwords \ bin/word \ bin/words < 1397393041 375526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :print_args_or_input, it was < 1397393048 359463 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`word < 1397393049 21857 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aver < 1397393053 155308 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1397393066 511940 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: truth in advertising < 1397393086 528317 :MoALTz!~no@user-188-33-230-20.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: bbl < 1397393109 35767 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sorry. http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/echo.html begs to differ. < 1397393123 672268 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the results are implementation-defined" < 1397393199 647616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i'm not saying dash breaks the standard, i'm saying the standard is inconvenient. < 1397393347 150922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"New applications are encouraged to use printf instead of echo." < 1397393360 829587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/print_args_or_input < 1397393361 475278 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi < 1397393372 426530 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they actually did < 1397393384 77751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1397393402 902355 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess the proper solution is a here document. foo < C < 1397401226 489016 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume Celsius is the sane one < 1397401476 716590 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1397401508 340819 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rankine is the truly insane one < 1397401576 524213 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kelvin had a great idea there, but clearly we should base the scale on the more familiar Fahrenheit unit instead." < 1397401585 6236 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about the Rømer and Réaumur scales? < 1397401624 443851 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a giant temperature-o-meter with markings in one of those in a park somewhere in Switzerland or Italy, I took a photo of it. < 1397401705 834346 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about just an exponential scale with k = 1 < 1397401707 767369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Réaumur, apparently. < 1397401737 507519 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's just Celsius except with 80 in place of 100.) < 1397401776 562338 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, Réaumur looks quite sane. Rømer not so much, because it seems to depend on the salt content of brine. < 1397401816 871716 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't we just use natural units < 1397401824 308149 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything in Planck units! < 1397401857 353895 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And both are saner than Fahrenheit (coldest temperature ever encountered at home = 0 ... body temperature = 100; everybody gets their own scale that way!) < 1397401892 113197 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. < 1397401908 723563 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :man that must have sucked < 1397401922 325579 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" < 1397401945 106564 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why they're called rulers, you know < 1397401956 138149 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot* < 1397401965 250149 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it would explain the attraction of the chinese to small feet ;-) ) < 1397401986 687945 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random hardware question: are there any potential issues with USB-connected SATA HD enclosures around the 2 TB barrier? (I had that 1.5 TB drive that broke, and was thinking of sticking a 3 TB drive in to replace it.) < 1397401990 294674 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: ouch. < 1397402024 138853 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet : Reminds me of https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es/3/39/Robotnikwood.jpg < 1397402046 817366 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would have thought we're past that kind of problems already, but in the past there's been some kind of a "barrier" at pretty much every other power of two.) < 1397402051 207801 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: have to use GPT if it's partitioned, I guess? < 1397402142 513784 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably true. Though I don't think that should be a problem, as long as there isn't anything about the USB-to-SATA bridge that would have problems. < 1397402150 35303 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 2TiB barrier is not visible to SATA < 1397402167 415496 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, I was just thinking of issues with using a drive like that in general. < 1397402187 562280 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only reason people made a big deal out of it was because old BIOSes couldn't deal with 4KiB sectors < 1397402278 542914 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had a "must upgrade disk firmware in order for it to be recognizable at all" incompatibility with these current 3TB drives in this desktop. < 1397402378 89054 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, it was the 1TB Samsung HD105SI instead. And some other computer. < 1397402432 11862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anyway, things never work out right if there's any chance for them to go wrong, has been my general feeling about hard disks. < 1397402673 310063 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.12.100.208 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397403062 752533 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397403557 330598 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397403868 325984 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397404529 627750 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1397405013 575418 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397405039 965214 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should use a lot of smaller disks in RAID instead then? < 1397405113 11186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have places to put them in. Anyway, maybe it'll work. < 1397405140 567984 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :By all means it should, anyway. < 1397405173 783121 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, beautiful timing: Evolution froze up, I typed in a killall command < 1397405173 976282 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just before I ran the command, it crashed < 1397405176 391944 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I thought the disks were meant to be inexpensive < 1397405176 585348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than, necessarily, small < 1397405189 831357 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1397405190 156748 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 4h 49m 34s ago: [...] SAVE, LPTON, LPTOFF, PICTURE <-- you need a HDRON too hth < 1397405193 107683 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you missed the context < 1397405211 339762 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, it is a joke... < 1397405223 822810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "LPTON" is short for "line printer on" < 1397405326 499447 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know it is ironic that I should say that yes < 1397405351 218790 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397405367 454687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1397405368 770427 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1397405377 882328 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, you missed the context ais523, I know it is ironic that I should say that yes < 1397405381 633702 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wrt the disk size) < 1397405772 576096 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, C++ is getting ever better language for obfuscations too < 1397405777 254545 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this < 1397405780 372861 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397405840 729640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C++ is pretty great for obfuscations < 1397405858 461424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, any apparently innocent line of C++ code can do pretty much anything, depending on the context < 1397405908 894423 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it explicitly names a primitive data type < 1397405948 559010 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is the language with apparently innocent lines. C++ is like a mob boss. < 1397405948 751277 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you noticed how lambda syntax now lets you define new variables (possibly shadowing existing ones) without ever mentioning a type name or "auto"? makes it even more difficult for a human to follow bindings. < 1397405954 254851 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define int Utils < 1397406019 640582 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, it is pretty terrible for anything except obfuscation at this point < 1397406034 366563 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with C++03 it wasn't /that/ bad < 1397406071 62581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that's the preprocessor, it doesn't count < 1397406072 331931 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++11 was an obvious improvement on C++03. < 1397406098 701439 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bjonas: haskell lambdas dont even make you type a type name.. how evil < 1397406106 140134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++11 is better at being C++ than previous versions were < 1397406138 591943 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> C++11 < 1397406139 433152 :idris-ircslave!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(input):1:1:When elaborating an application of function 09Prelude.Vect.++: < 1397406139 626213 :idris-ircslave!~ircslave@dslb-094-221-220-083.pools.arcor-ip.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : No such variable C < 1397406140 410656 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor ‘C’ < 1397406140 607329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: yeah, but in haskell you don't have assignments to previously declared variables either < 1397406156 634307 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were user-defined literals part of C++11? < 1397406165 774310 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: so, like, in haskell, x = 3 always introduces a new variable x < 1397406172 432499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : C++11 was an obvious improvement on C++03. <-- in some respects, yes < 1397406177 801709 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++ it's probably just an assignment to an existing x < 1397406203 544885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes < 1397406216 1645 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean suffixes to numbers at least < 1397406226 107607 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I think is terrible, makes it much harder to follow < 1397406269 241089 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearly all C++03 code is valid C++11, and C++11 can do many other things. So the committee considers it an improvement. < 1397406288 206535 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider it an improvement too < 1397406295 736161 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because of move-return < 1397406298 63664 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, threads. < 1397406298 441480 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... I was reading some C++ (03) code making heavy use of boost MPL the other day. Scary < 1397406303 213918 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :superset is an awesome langauge design technique! < 1397406313 191305 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you say you wanted a language that takes less than five years to learn properly and less than one coffee break to compile? Too bad. < 1397406325 537198 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this tomato is really cool, now it just needs wheels! < 1397406388 555310 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, the code base at work takes about an hour to completely build, using MSVC 2005. Building for both windows and the embedded real time OS. Oh and that is using a distcc-like thing for windows called IncrediBuild. I have no idea how long it would take with a single computer < 1397406397 248810 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: it's amazing how many gaps in the syntax tree you can fill that way. < 1397406401 532647 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is C++ for you < 1397406413 995492 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember building gcc from svn, soon after they switched to C++ < 1397406423 801552 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :took ages I bet? < 1397406424 477388 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: try disabling link-time optimization. that sometimes helps a lot with MSVC. < 1397406429 486170 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:230:48ff:fed6:b9ce JOIN :#esoteric < 1397406433 798633 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The svn repo is about 1GB now.) < 1397406447 341928 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, the real killer is generating the pdb files for debug build really... < 1397406459 475602 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yeah, gcc is building slow again < 1397406465 906245 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a time when it built quickly < 1397406467 686454 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1397406480 369851 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like C++ < 1397406485 553410 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in my dayyyys < 1397406491 671765 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I have seen 700+ MB pdb files for the final applications. We link everything statically (since anything else is a MASSIVE pain on the RTOS target), so that doesn't help. < 1397406506 858138 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, the commands I used to build gcc were "./configure && make; make; make; make; make install".) < 1397406508 69634 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no no, back in my days gcc built slow, because computers were too slow < 1397406517 293896 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, the linker takes a LONG time for that < 1397406526 301293 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, it is not so bad in release builds though < 1397406532 389889 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.218 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in someone's dayyyys < 1397406534 897507 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: generating pdb files you say? hmm < 1397406541 24394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's daily C syntax corner case time! http://sprunge.us/ccKL < 1397406544 405597 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1397406567 666693 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hehehe < 1397406578 454077 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in those days e-mailing somebody the X11R5 sources was considered a DoS attack. < 1397406578 788979 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, can take up to 5 minutes to link debug builds sometimes, and some investigation showed most of that was spent writing the 700+ MB pdb file < 1397406601 706232 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, the application is more like 30 MB in debug (and iirc like 12 or so in release) < 1397406602 38787 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Talk:Smartboxes14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39307&oldid=39306 5* 03Zerk 5* (+476) 10/* Implicit evaluation */ < 1397406610 309121 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a funny C++ code that used to build in old gccs then not build in later ones, and I actually understood why it is invalid code according to C++, but then some later gcc decided to accept it again < 1397406643 594111 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : It's daily C syntax corner case time! http://sprunge.us/ccKL <-- what is ptype? < 1397406644 392374 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ still hasnt incorporated awk or sed or sh < 1397406650 46191 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is still room for improvement < 1397406656 603641 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham: no, but they're getting close to that < 1397406686 264890 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also why does it do what it did there? < 1397406700 298327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The "-" sign is the unary - operator, not part of the integer literal. < 1397406721 240320 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And 2147483648 is larger than INT_MAX, so is of type long.) < 1397406722 216726 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, also that is not due to the disk btw, we all use high end intel SSDs in our computers < 1397406745 779746 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ahhh < 1397406748 248756 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you also using enough RAM? < 1397406765 5019 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, 12 GB in some machines, 16 in others. 64-bit windows 7 < 1397406770 732678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "-" sign in floating point literals is part of the literal syntax, but it probably doesn't matter there.) < 1397406775 681233 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :700 MB of RAM < 1397406778 272821 :newsham!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for() { next unless(m/stuff/; ... } < 1397406783 916264 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I see < 1397406805 841363 :MoALTz_!~no@user-188-33-230-20.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1397406810 954060 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, we are going to switch to linux in the future though for the next version of the embedded platform, porting is currently in the works. I guess we will have to support the old one for quite some time to come though < 1397406813 865884 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ironically, float range is sign-symmetric but int range is not < 1397406814 73531 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's that C++ thingy that I think shouldn't compile, but gcc now accepts it again: http://dpaste.com/1778559/ < 1397406818 197304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1397406818 407769 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eh I don't bother too much < 1397406821 206245 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel might apprecate it < 1397406848 124892 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: it does matter a bit for floats too, because of preprocessor shenenigans with ## stuff < 1397406857 58589 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much though < 1397406861 470925 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, what is wrong with that? < 1397406875 716909 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh wait, that's the version that should compile < 1397406888 248534 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: change the ::d to d to have the version that is questionable < 1397406889 502333 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, I probably couldn't tell them apart < 1397406910 634538 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: also probably for user-defined literals < 1397406921 225284 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, okay, why is that questionable, I don't see multiple d symbols in there < 1397406929 341403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the questionable version: http://dpaste.com/1778560/ < 1397406966 73846 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, as far as I can see, there is only one class d in there? < 1397406970 392215 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the trick is that in that context d can refer to the concrete type d, or the type template d < 1397406978 709881 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1397406982 710716 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ::d unambiguously refers to the template < 1397407002 39171 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck template-template arguments :P < 1397407011 696729 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language usually disambiguates between the two because if you use the template a less than sign follows < 1397407016 496713 :nucular!~MOO@p4FF90FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1397407016 699281 :nucular!~MOO@p4FF90FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Changing host < 1397407016 699357 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular JOIN :#esoteric < 1397407020 91267 :MoALTz!~no@user-188-33-230-20.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1397407023 910979 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why you need this crazy code to confuse the grammar < 1397407025 478986 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, yes and template-template breaks that < 1397407044 892842 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ grammar is terrible < 1397407086 692977 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one thing I like about python. A mostly sensibly grammar that is sensibly parseable < 1397407094 877512 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, is it "parseable" or "parsable"? < 1397407120 667371 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sensibly/sensible/ < 1397407170 691843 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is it now? do you know the scoping rules for python, like what creates a new variable in a scope as opposed to referring to an existing one? < 1397407182 428768 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, according to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parsable < 1397407209 304211 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, okay that bit is a meh, but at least there is no ambiguity at the actual parsing stage. Afaik the grammar is LL(1) < 1397407232 54917 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, oh nice, I can mix and match after my mood ;) < 1397407300 345440 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have another crazy example about gcc, but that's more dependent on which generation of the C++ standard you look at < 1397407305 838447 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find it < 1397407378 961854 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59704 < 1397407380 78215 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Completely unrelated, I just looked at my car expenses spreadsheet, specifically the fuel page. Man, it is expensive having a car. At least if you live in Europe. < 1397407410 241329 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it sure is < 1397407415 549504 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spent around 1225 USD on fuel alone since buying the car last summer. < 1397407424 502622 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(~8000 SEK) < 1397407490 177948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a new chromium bug I think... Sometimes when I scroll the page goes blank. If I scroll a bit further it goes back to working again < 1397407501 570746 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :First showed up a couple of days ago... < 1397407559 715812 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, ouch < 1397407564 713943 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: evil gcc. < 1397407576 530397 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, also evil language and evil code < 1397407590 339891 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, all of those < 1397407591 326366 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, what does = delete mean? I haven't used C++11 < 1397407595 580122 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much at least < 1397407633 441593 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to tell 2008 Vorpal about 2014 Vorpal having a car. < 1397407655 587705 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968, why is that? Did I say something about cars back then? < 1397407665 473200 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that means the function doesn't exist and will never be defined. it's most often used for copy constructors of non-copiable classes. < 1397407667 442105 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. I think you hated them but maybe I'm mixing you up. < 1397407672 570422 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :here it comes useful to produce a clear example < 1397407690 205625 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not necessary for exhibiting this bug, just makes it simpler to show < 1397407703 363718 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968, err think you are mixing me up. They are terrible for the environment, and I avoid driving when I don't have to. But I probably didn't go further than that < 1397407756 414385 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, ah yes, the old C++03 way of declaring but not defining such a function would produce a linker error instead < 1397407770 864901 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or making it private (if in a class, unlike here) < 1397407791 296912 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can demonstrate this bug without delete, but then you'd have to check what function gcc actually chooses to call, instead of getting a straight error message < 1397407831 866287 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, or just define one of them and try to link it, resulting in a linker error as I said < 1397407870 632721 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know you could mix varargs with overloading btw < 1397407878 785294 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like it could be terribly confusing < 1397407960 107232 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, recommendation(s) for domain name reseller? < 1397407963 129006 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the context is this. gcc has a language extension called __builtin_constant_p to determine whether an expression is compile-time constant. this is useful in macros that try to do magical optimized stuff. < 1397407975 919090 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, ah < 1397407988 542154 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: now Jens Gustedt noticed that this is possible to write in standtard C11, without an extesions, < 1397407992 190582 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see https://gustedt.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/testing-compile-time-constness-and-null-pointers-with-c11s-_generic/ < 1397408009 242109 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he wrote "I am not aware of a C++ feature that provides the same possibilities" < 1397408026 312932 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wanted to implement the same thing in C++, and I do have a solution which seems to work, < 1397408044 391024 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem is, it's completely fragile and seems to depend on what gcc can optmize to a constant, < 1397408057 508276 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just what the language specs considers compile-time constant, < 1397408062 326788 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1397408063 361644 :doesthiswork!b8ab3b18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.171.59.24 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397408065 906064 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do bullshitters always put their bs "information" in a video instead of something nice and readable? < 1397408066 96654 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could easily break in a future gcc. < 1397408070 670190 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bug is about that. < 1397408073 895001 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the meanwhile, < 1397408080 435356 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bill this person is talking about was in 2010 and doesn't even mention 2014 < 1397408081 378070 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, so what does _Generic do? < 1397408090 343725 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I cant just google < 1397408109 932019 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++1y wants to change the rule about what can be casts to a null pointer, so it would break my solution completely. < 1397408123 319911 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1397408146 120402 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a C11 thingy for choosing different expressions depending on the type of an expression. < 1397408148 343378 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to look into what C11 brought to the table at some point btw < 1397408149 250765 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: charisma? hard to express that in text (unless you use comic sans ;-) ) < 1397408159 321233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397408168 77700 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ doesn't have it, because it has function overloading instead. < 1397408171 772645 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, doesn't comic sans express the lack thereof < 1397408187 412433 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the most useful thing it's brought is well-defined semantics for multithread stuff, < 1397408187 938332 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. but so could a video. < 1397408192 373101 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Write Down This Date: < 1397408192 568085 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :July 1st, 2014" < 1397408202 466732 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we write it down so we can give people like this the middle finger? < 1397408202 849733 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: with basically the same model as C++11, < 1397408204 788587 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, so a C header using it couldn't be included in a C++ program? Okay < 1397408235 891324 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :July 1st 2014. A perfectly ordinary day somewhat past the middle of 2014. < 1397408236 976738 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe this person is schizophrenic, rather than a scammer? < 1397408241 353970 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not normally, but such a C header could do an #ifdef to work in both cases, and some headers in gcc or libc will do that < 1397408249 662170 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: supposedly the US is going to collapse due to some law < 1397408255 918490 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :again. < 1397408288 865736 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas, hm < 1397408297 133459 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a template here, I feel. Of using a video. They don't sound like a crazy. My vote is scammer. < 1397408324 58541 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endofamerica.com/ < 1397408334 721604 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video is so lengthy, still hasn't gotten to the point yet < 1397408478 311683 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't this person just GET TO THE POINT already < 1397408486 271539 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does doing this increase fear or something? < 1397408491 783695 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why are you watching it then? < 1397408515 563036 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see what this scam is about < 1397408607 834788 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's fear-mongering about debt spending? WIth no relation to "On this date, U.S. House of Representatives Bill "H.R. 2847" goes into effect. It will usher in the true collapse of the U.S. dollar, and will make millions of Americans poorer, overnight. You now have just several months to prepare..." on the website < 1397408833 685340 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/h/HR-2847-Dollar-Collapse.htm < 1397408860 481445 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried reading the bill itself but I have no idea what it says. < 1397408904 869795 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't say 2014, but maybe I missed something that's equivalent < 1397408954 807646 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: there are relative effective dates in there, e.g. "The amendments made by this section shall apply to obligations issued after the date which is 2 years after the date of the enactment of this Act." < 1397408964 346189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have my only .org from register4less, but they're not cheap; I've just been staying there because of inertia. < 1397409002 337535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (For .fi domains, I recommend the Finnish Communications Regulatory Authority.) < 1397409038 601475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: misleading name? < 1397409059 770402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's possible they were relatively cheap at that time. < 1397409077 461207 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Our countries's unique ability to print more money" < 1397409093 932228 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's saying that we're the only one able to print US money, which is popular < 1397409157 988906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"10MB of web space. A part of the R4L difference that we have offered our clients from the first day is free web space with your domain. With every R4L registration, you can host a web site up to 10MB in size, banner-free!" < 1397409173 410961 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1397409175 753782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling 10 megabytes might not be anything to write home about, these days. < 1397409210 973461 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :might not even be enough space to fit t he ltter home, in fact < 1397409257 237326 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ltter < 1397409474 159114 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's still quite a lot of space if you're just storing text, though < 1397409511 501361 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is, yes, but it does sound sort of "outdated". < 1397409871 231868 :doesthiswork!b8ab3b18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.171.59.24 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sfeer theory shows the connection between comonads and natural deduction http://sfeertheory.littlefoolery.com/index.html < 1397409955 321116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1397409965 471521 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397410071 148430 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397410074 254361 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397410220 475336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1397410256 959258 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION submits a CFJ: can "ais523" and "callforjudgement" refer to the same entities? < 1397410278 319499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with tilaa how many IPv4 do you get? < 1397410311 283833 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't find that on their site < 1397410338 670632 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One. < 1397410349 72294 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397410357 491209 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397410370 952189 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's (sort of) there in the knowledge base, just not very prominently: https://support.tilaa.com/entries/20917782-Can-I-get-additional-IPv4-addresses- < 1397410401 300327 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397410437 193781 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397410441 851191 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1397410468 211593 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Boxy14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39308&oldid=39305 5* 03Zerk 5* (+281) 10Reverted to using _var assignments, moved $ to #sugar where it belongs. < 1397410471 483246 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (They also assign only a single IPv6 address, not a /64 block or something, and you need to request more via their dashboard thing. But I think those are free.) < 1397410486 627344 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how is support btw? < 1397410497 625623 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do they have an IRC channel? < 1397410546 178013 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Client Quit < 1397410573 41896 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397410719 539197 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't think I've had any reason to contact them. I tried to check my email archive, but "tilaa" is the Finnish word both for "space" (as in, "the space between the walls", not stars-and-galaxies space) and "order" (as in, "order now while supplies last"), so I get a whole lot of emails in Finnish. < 1397410725 149634 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1397410788 313837 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397410789 875152 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tilaa.com" seems to have been a better search term, but there's just email notices of downtime or planned maintenance; I've never had an occasion to contact their support. < 1397410803 504100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think they have an IRC channel, though I could be wrong about that. < 1397410839 920131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have a Twitter account. :p < 1397410877 623503 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1397411030 312909 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397411149 317144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397411191 440696 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1397411194 493207 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397411427 929241 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1397411434 475967 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397411752 79361 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1397411761 320100 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397412001 383779 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.regehr.org/archives/767 lol < 1397412012 326491 :Bike_!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu NICK :Bike < 1397412054 113501 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1397412115 692152 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1397412346 446679 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1397412563 119870 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I like that winner #2 end result very much. < 1397412603 167543 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's pretty @_@ < 1397412745 707683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I was under the impression that the fact realloc can return some completely different pointer and invalidate the old one was pretty common knowledge. < 1397412771 700346 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A C compiler should not assume these things left and right, though. < 1397412803 620797 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately for you, a C compiler is permitted to assume UB never happens. < 1397412808 41196 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, what happens when you use -nostdlib. (Sometimes, the compiler blindly continues using its assumptions) < 1397412808 240617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I also, thought so < 1397412842 994015 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-ffreestanding is the one to make it do a freestanding C implementation. < 1397412845 329021 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a bug in gcc 4.8 where gcc would compile an implementation of memset into a call to memset < 1397412847 12150 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, i didn't know, not that i'm a C programmer, and i don't see it in man < 1397412865 9367 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like that, standard library assumptions, so, I defined that Black-C has a different way to specify standard library assumptions. < 1397412871 330434 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nostdlib says "don't implicitly add -lc to the link line" and that's all. < 1397412892 111768 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not what i'd infer from "changes the size of the memory block pointed to by ptr", certainly < 1397412894 713774 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I meant -ffreestanding might not turn off those assumptions. < 1397412896 418975 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It is only implied very vaguely in my realloc man page. "If the area pointed to was moved, a free(ptr) is done." < 1397412911 865106 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *that* is a compiler bug. :) < 1397412920 703250 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The man page isn't normative though. < 1397412933 913138 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not normative, but more people are going to read it than ANSI! < 1397412961 777256 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" The realloc function deallocates the old object pointed to by ptr and returns a pointer to a new object that has the size specified by size. The contents of the new object shall be the same as that of the old object prior to deallocation, up to the lesser of the new and old sizes." < 1397412965 321151 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw is there some way to see what version of a given man page i have < 1397412990 760210 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is that the standard? < 1397412996 122665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the standard, yes. < 1397413015 221651 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a totally different function from the one in my manual < 1397413015 425628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also mentions, in the return value section, that it "returns a pointer to the new object (which may have the same value as a pointer to the old object)". < 1397413029 282864 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is 7.20.3.4 from the WG14/N1256 draft. < 1397413039 710645 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(closest I, a cheapskate, have to the actual spec) < 1397413056 216267 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C89 wording is essentially very close to Bike's (and mine) man pages. < 1397413058 619668 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean obviously it makes sense that it's going to have to get a new block sometimes, but i didn't know that from the manual, is all < 1397413069 816932 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The realloc function changes the size of the object pointed to by ptr to the size specified by size . The contents of the object shall be unchanged up to the lesser of the new and old sizes." < 1397413093 174216 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I would have it, the realloc function can be declared with ["implements"("realloc",ptr,len)] ["invalidate"(ptr)] before the function header, to indicate to the optimizer, such features. (Actually the first implies the second, but this is in case the compiler doesn't implement "implements".) < 1397413114 823238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the only bit that hints at the possibility of a move is the "returns" section: "The realloc function returns either a null pointer or a pointer to the possibly moved allocated space." < 1397413121 830546 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, are we taking about realloc? < 1397413127 459991 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's actually the same as my man page, except it uses "will" instead of "shall" < 1397413135 12864 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: yes, see my link above, there's an amusing UB < 1397413139 201200 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusing result of UB, rather < 1397413146 193250 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was reading C11's definition of realloc, and AFAICT, if you give it a zero size and an existing pointer < 1397413161 117398 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's allowed to return a non-NULL pointer that you aren't allowed to dereference < 1397413169 992532 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does "implements" tell the compiler to use optimizations hardcoded for "realloc"? < 1397413170 429246 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that can be deallocated < 1397413174 872802 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that matches malloc's behavior. < 1397413179 880285 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes. < 1397413190 368480 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring. i like "invalidate" though. < 1397413191 860511 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc(0) can return NULL or a unique pointer that it is UB to dereference. < 1397413201 753152 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like the sort of thing rust probably has < 1397413225 767596 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the same in C99 and C90. < 1397413226 909857 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It can be safely passed to free, however. < 1397413237 783878 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the same is true of NULL. < 1397413246 765688 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, what make sense to me is that realloc with an existing pointer and zero size, ought to free the pointer and then return whatever malloc(0) is, which can be safely freed whether or not the result is null. < 1397413246 969902 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, but realloc-as-0 is documented to be the same as free in the man pages < 1397413252 91611 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's quite useful for it to behave like that < 1397413264 96765 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Yes, it is quite useful. < 1397413269 732213 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as such, I've been making realloc wrappers I write do a free instead if given zero size < 1397413302 133240 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Conceptually that's what it *does*. < 1397413333 901100 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except a hypothetical evil implementation could have realloc make the opposite choice from malloc. :( < 1397413365 374824 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amusing that if (!(p = malloc(sz))) die(); is incorrect < 1397413366 636419 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't care as long as whatever it returns can be safely freed once, and that whatever it returns can also be passed to realloc. < 1397413389 726340 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968: for sz = 0 you mean? < 1397413392 307629 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1397413396 97116 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, the C standard does require that to work no matter which implementation choice is made. < 1397413400 123237 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's unspecified, isn't it, not impl-defined? < 1397413404 24702 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it could change randomly during a program < 1397413418 793117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, which is how it should be, so it is OK. < 1397413443 100615 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to the evil libc project, anyway < 1397413456 326015 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: " If the size of the space requested is zero, the behavior is implementation- defined: either a null pointer is returned, or the behavior is as if the size were some nonzero value, except that the returned pointer shall not be used to access an object." < 1397413476 257729 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good, it is impl-defined < 1397413496 433688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could argue that realloc is not allowed to return NULL, since it must "return a pointer to a new object that has the size specified by /size/" and can return NULL only if "the new object could not be allocated". And you can't say that it can return NULL under the "could not be allocated" rule, because "if memory for the new object cannot be allocated, the old object is not deallocated and ... < 1397413501 89867 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, is it legal to pass a negative size to malloc? < 1397413502 457775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... its value is unchanged". < 1397413512 694156 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: It's a size_t, it has no negative values. < 1397413515 246473 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, yeah < 1397413522 467385 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just notice that, but you got there first < 1397413534 831560 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confused by valgrind telling me that I'd passed -8 to malloc recently < 1397413545 682525 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was very helpful that it did that, that bug would have taken longer to find otherwise) < 1397413556 812530 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it assumes very large size_ts are actually negative < 1397413586 231395 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it told you that you'd passed 0xfffffffffffffff8 < 1397413594 246238 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that'd be useful too < 1397413610 77459 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's essentially impossible to meet some of C's requirements while allowing objects with a size that don't fit in ssize_t. < 1397413616 267970 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the Valgrind docs imply to me that they care a lot about making the output understandable to end users, which implies to me that many end users tend to be confused by it < 1397413629 313118 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are passing a size with the high bit set then probably it is wrong anyways since it likely take up too much of the program's RAM. < 1397413642 945623 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that sufficiently large objects (larger than SSIZE_T_MAX) are utterly illegal in practice. :) < 1397413649 600947 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you're reminding me of a thread on comp.lang.c about whether you could have a conforming implementation that could allocate objects larger than SIZE_MAX bytes using calloc < 1397413665 8298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was someone on another channel doing fd = open(...); if (fd < 0) die_noisily(); printf("fd = %d", fd); with an accidentally unsigned fd, and was very confused by "it prints fd = -1 but it doesn't die_noisily whaaat". (A case of not enough compiler warning flags, of course.) < 1397413680 297613 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is metaphysics. < 1397413684 247653 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that one outcome on the thread is that a lot of libc devs realised that their libcs were buggy when given such arguments, at least < 1397413685 74848 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I suppose that might be possible. < 1397413696 675999 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: "Essentially" for the sake of skipping out on such a debate. :) < 1397413734 318863 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this reminds me, I've been planning to change all the integers in NetHack, apart from bitfields, to signed (making them wider if necessary) < 1397413741 34469 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you think of anything that might end up breaking as a result? < 1397413756 524845 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prot ring hacks < 1397413780 762237 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you mean things that aren't exploits < 1397413783 357962 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Hah, realloc of size 0 is the very first defect report of C11: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_400.htm < 1397413789 519587 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: weird decision < 1397413798 103599 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that it's OK if code could theoretically break from the change, so long as it's not used in NetHack < 1397413822 632217 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968: I want to autogenerate structure descriptions, rather than relying on a bunch of code implemented by hand that has to be manually synchronized across up to six different files < 1397413828 556159 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatically generating unsigned ints is just asking for pain < 1397413835 786882 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making them all signed is a saner option < 1397413959 159770 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are these structure descriptions? < 1397413962 408298 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so they're officially making size-0 realloc an error < 1397413965 589628 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity :-( < 1397413980 400658 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, sometimes you might want unsigned numbers < 1397413987 454701 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I only started work on them a couple of days ago, it's not really finished < 1397413995 179155 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: I sometimes use malloc(0) and realloc with size zero, too, though. < 1397413998 129947 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you define numerical types by giving a range < 1397414008 404284 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. you write [0, 100] and that probably becomes int8_t < 1397414035 792999 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0, 255] would become int16_t unless you explicitly say that unsigned types are allowed, in which case it might become uint8_t or a bitfield unsigned : 8 < 1397414040 41041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX actually does contain macros which are there in case the compiler won't generate unsigned types. < 1397414071 310334 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, I assume that you shouldn't be having overflow happen at all < 1397414086 662043 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use a bignum type for everything. < 1397414135 839035 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(These macros are in section 112) < 1397414141 826930 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: The mixed-sign integer comparison rules (or, rather, the usual arithmetic conversions in that context) are kind of unintuitive occasionally, at least. (Both get integer promotions first; then if the unsigned type has larger rank, the signed is converted to unsigned and unsigned comparison takes place; alternatively if the signed type can represent all values of the unsigned type, the ... < 1397414145 746489 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twould be nice, but that's not easy to retrofit onto a 27-year-old C codebase < 1397414147 871360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... unsigned operand is converted to signed and the comparison is signed; alternatively both are converted to the unsigned type corresponding to the operand with the signed type.) < 1397414162 781483 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1397414173 235106 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: easier if you use C++ to define the bignum type < 1397414176 468850 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't remember that rule 100%, but do know how it works approximately < 1397414176 672107 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get operator overloading < 1397414184 276532 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: NetHack doesn't compile as C++ < 1397414202 913878 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an easier problem to solve than replacing all arithmetic operators < 1397414204 52898 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Guest46968: < 1397414218 724116 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, neither problem is particularly easy to solve < 1397414223 818516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So (-1L < 1ULL) for example is false, which you maybe might not expect. < 1397414224 706971 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Section 110 contains the description of this feature; "Some Pascal compilers ... insist on allocating space for an additional sign bit; on such systems you can get 256 values into a quarterword only if the subrange is `-128 .. 127'." < 1397414252 970811 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I expected that, fwiw < 1397414258 731968 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :While (1-LL < 1U) is true. < 1397414266 418925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, -1LL, not 1-LL. < 1397414275 896403 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about 16-bit systems? wouldn't a quarterword be 4 bits? < 1397414288 662806 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, TeX is written in Pascal? < 1397414302 853446 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1397414313 982317 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in pascal but translated to C with a program solely designed to translate TeX to C to compile it < 1397414319 453522 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is written in WEB, which is a preprocessor for Pascal. < 1397414336 572320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "word" in TeX has to be 32-bits even in 16-bit systems though. < 1397414373 534159 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, tex is written in a preprocessor for pascal which is translated into c to be compiled? < 1397414387 173306 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1397414403 640719 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be compiled using some Pascal compilers too, though. < 1397414404 232734 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, seriously? < 1397414407 85266 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1397414418 167800 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... why? < 1397414438 149753 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1397414442 428129 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like thousands of other programs of the 70s, TeX was written in pascal. < 1397414462 197240 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, blog.regehr.org talks about UB quite a bit, and is frequently a good read < 1397414472 261128 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an example where it doesn't check the return value of printf < 1397414480 54489 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then actually talks about the possible behaviour of the program < 1397414488 955430 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is, btw, the #1 most common bug in hello world programs) < 1397414507 418297 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run /bin/true --help > /dev/full < 1397414508 13189 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device < 1397414515 962835 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run /bin/true --help > /dev/full; echo $? < 1397414516 695484 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/true: write error: No space left on device \ 1 < 1397414538 296415 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, /checking/ the return value can also lead to absurdities < 1397414538 882541 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -1L < 1U is false on systems where long is the same size as int, but true on systems where long is longer. < 1397414562 41510 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The preprocessor does various things, such as convert hex and octal numbers into decimal, implement macros, convert all names into uppercase and remove all underscores, as well as rearrange and transclude "chunks", generate a string pool, and generate an index and various cross-references, pretty-print the code, etc. < 1397414563 325973 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder if any program uses that to compare the size of int to the size of long < 1397414564 845512 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a long long in my pants! < 1397414566 615315 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1397414592 196380 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: now I wonder if Knuth uses a preprocessor to write INTERCAL < 1397414596 748560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On the first kind of systems, long can represent all values of unsigned int so 1U is converted to long; on the second it can't, so both are converted to unsigned long.) < 1397414598 932809 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that converts variable names to numbers, for instance < 1397414609 275250 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'long long long n;' > /tmp/a.c && gcc /tmp/a.c < 1397414609 944538 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/tmp/a.c:1:11: error: ‘long long long’ is too long for GCC < 1397414627 967283 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1397414635 619213 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he uses three-letter variable names that are converted into variable numbers using the five-bit Baudot encoding < 1397414659 653277 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm upset that gcc doesn't still have a pragma to run NetHack < 1397414662 750856 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was documented, thus legal) < 1397414679 747167 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it used to interpret all pragmas like that, as a protest against bugs in the definition of #pragma < 1397414681 191692 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1397414682 515314 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it did, at one point < 1397414702 89334 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the bugs were fixed, and it now implements a few pragmas of itso wn < 1397414702 819685 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1397414703 562418 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*own < 1397414709 70010 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't implement /all/ of them like that < 1397414715 307859 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus it doesn't implement any like that < 1397414736 400398 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.regehr.org/archives/140 haha, beaut < 1397414771 474060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing WEB does is read a "change file" which makes changes to the program before it is compiled. This is implemented so that you can make the changes needed for whatever system you are compiling on. < 1397414817 952833 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... patches? < 1397414836 431635 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1397414863 421306 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i understand how this termination analysis works... < 1397414865 668070 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: incidentally, gcc now has an option that, among other things, tells you about functions it wanted to perform optimizations on (normally moving calls to them elsewhere), but couldn't because it isn't sure that they terminate < 1397414866 313869 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "change file" < 1397414884 339509 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although it suspects that they probably do) < 1397414958 166830 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an annotation or something to say that they terminate? < 1397414962 953922 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, CLC-INTERCAL actually optimizes detected infinite loops into infinite sleeps < 1397414977 867954 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there's __attribute__((pure)), which implies termination among other things < 1397414997 515898 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the function is total but impure, then gcc couldn't do the optimizations in question anyway, so there's no real gain < 1397414997 926358 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely always terminating mutagenic functions aren't uncommon < 1397415002 984896 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1397415082 133755 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I remember having run into something like this. I wanted to produce a stack overflow, void f() { f(); } ... and the call got optimized away by icc. < 1397415091 258123 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, does the analysis work by figuring that once it's run through all 1000³ tuples it can stop < 1397415096 87369 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, according to http://blog.regehr.org/archives/161, in C++0x, infinite lops are UB < 1397415127 792526 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i should just try it < 1397415138 117741 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they access library functions that do I/O, do synchronization with other threads, or change volatile variables < 1397415153 997237 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, yeah, there's a delay. < 1397415172 594979 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a delay that is appreciably burning my CPU, even < 1397415201 619860 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it doesn't say what gcc does, though. < 1397415209 51856 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think it works correctly in gcc < 1397415227 203019 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that a) it doesn't mention gcc, and b) gcc explicitly checks for termination when optimizing out code < 1397415230 455645 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i'm willing to install icc for this < 1397415274 316674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: Anyhow, if you're dealing mostly with narrower-than-int unsigned types (like I'd assume, given NetHack), those probably have been converted to int by integer promotions in most of their uses in arithmetics/comparisons before now, already. < 1397415300 869113 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: NetHack uses types more or less at random, AFAICT < 1397415309 639186 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there have been guiding principles in the past, but they've changed over time < 1397415319 36550 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain unsigned is entirely visible on occasion < 1397415334 278411 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the main problem is when they've tried to do overflow checks, and those checks don't work < 1397415343 828504 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nethack" and "random" in the same sentence brings odd memories to mind < 1397415352 811262 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1397415364 492224 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well NetHack is a very random gmae < 1397415366 63975 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*game < 1397415370 717388 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :its implementation's also pretty random < 1397415373 795207 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack <3 < 1397415434 647768 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: was thinking of rnz < 1397415455 457834 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: "These C compilers known to not preserve termination properties of code: Sun CC 5.10, Intel CC 11.1, LLVM 2.7, Open64 4.2.3, and Microsoft Visual C 2008 and 2010. The LLVM developers consider this behavior a bug and have since fixed it. As far as I know, the other compiler vendors have no plans to change the behavior. < 1397415456 881159 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :These C compilers, as far as I know, do not change the termination behavior of their inputs: GCC 3.x, GCC 4.x, and the WindRiver Diab compiler." < 1397415480 957077 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a pretty strong claim, i wonder how you'd prove it < 1397415486 693446 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: in case you didn't know, I'm the lead maintainer of the fan project to restart NetHack development < 1397415496 743740 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: :O < 1397415497 541395 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the main aim of 4.3 is cleaning up the code < 1397415501 538873 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This observation is not untrue, but it’s a little like explaining that World War II happened because people couldn’t all just get along." not bad < 1397415508 850509 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf: oh, you're ais, aren't you < 1397415514 591523 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to play nethack with like 2 dozens of patches applied < 1397415519 489564 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :names are hard < 1397415525 498496 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bit UI modifying by myself < 1397415526 930220 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fan project" < 1397415527 469921 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes < 1397415529 212274 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1397415568 565365 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rnz is so amusing, it seems like a in-the-wild semiexample of the kind of prng knuth talks about < 1397415576 819170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I set my client to cycle nicks on connection failure, because I use unreliable connections often enough that it helps keep them refreshed < 1397415597 554898 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well it doesn't suffer from patterns in the output, just from an utterly nonsensical distribution < 1397415605 14917 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's semi-, yeah < 1397415644 138379 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i was running a stats class i'd compare rnz to cauchy to explain different kinds of "nonsensical" < 1397415664 526001 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i assume that this will take years < 1397415668 237101 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(rnz, if i'm not mistaken, has defined moments) < 1397415704 640193 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: yeah, but we've been working on it for years < 1397415717 898590 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you just proved me right < 1397415733 436751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fewer than 50% of the lines in NetHack 4 come from NetHack 3.4.3 or earlier, even when you ignore whitespace changes < 1397415749 847472 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you don't ignore whitespace changes, it's close to 0% because we reindented the entire source tree) < 1397415754 809847 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i wish i was good enough with cass to give symbolic definitions of all of rnz's moments. < 1397415766 624097 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone actually calculated the higher moments of rnz < 1397415784 467072 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is the reason behind that? < 1397415808 301137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: for reindenting it? because it was entirely inconsistent before < 1397415821 498462 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for the project itself < 1397415824 956181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I standardised it on what seemed to be the most common indentation scheme within the existing code < 1397415826 317894 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: seems unlikely, given that the wikis mostly analyze a continuous distribution slightly different from rnz < 1397415834 537820 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, for the project, it's because there have been no public updates in over 10 years < 1397415847 110839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is far too long to leave NetHack stagnant < 1397415853 427424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the devteam won't update it, we will < 1397415887 845079 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually don't recall how to do moments of a discrete distribution, hopefully you just replace the integral with a sum < 1397415900 596804 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometime in the past 10 years, crawl happened to nethack < 1397415937 527352 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write roguelike game using SQL. < 1397415947 421125 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow wikipedia's article on moments is not very formal < 1397415956 244381 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: go for it < 1397415962 678381 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to write a roguelike in rust < 1397415980 811864 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should see if i know enough real analysis to figure this out, after i do my nine hours of homework < 1397415981 956792 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: OK do you know how to do? < 1397415995 144090 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: well, there are enough people who think that NetHack is better (including me) that there's still a healthy NetHack community < 1397416004 185229 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you are there for that creative stuff < 1397416061 848935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not really fatal at all; competition can be helpful < 1397416064 304392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: fwiw, structdesc has three types of borrowed pointers, two types of owned pointers, and two which can be owned /or/ borrowed depending on context; I'm considering adding reference counting too < 1397416078 483967 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is because it's meant to describe the behaviour of existing C programs < 1397416086 235998 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Not entirely written in SQL; part of it written in C, such as the display and input manager, and some of the functions and virtual table modules, and some other performance related things, and a few other things) < 1397416092 653026 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer crawl, though that may be due to the fact that I have not finished it yet. < 1397416092 849783 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only disallow the behaviour if it's completely nonsensical < 1397416141 995581 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much money I'm spending on ignoring things like sales and atm fees and coupons on receipts < 1397416143 759496 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 1st through 3rd elements indicate cases where the I/O subsystem truncated the string. " shit, printf can do this? < 1397416180 671385 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I would think there are cases where no other way is possible, but to truncate the string. < 1397416201 417800 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i would prefer a sane port of nethack for android < 1397416201 610670 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you have a libc where printf never prints anything and always returns zero if there's no error < 1397416214 141175 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: I've had thoughts along those lines too < 1397416222 544893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not owning a tablet myself, it'd be hard to get the ergonomics right < 1397416229 18494 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, you can add more items and stuff into the game, by adding more records into the table and adding triggers, and possibly more tables if needed; even such things can be changed during the game if these tables are copied into the save file!! < 1397416237 869545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main difficulty is a control scheme < 1397416253 183497 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been wondering about what a mouse-based scheme would look like, that'd be closer to tablet controls than keyboard < 1397416255 310099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still not idential < 1397416255 502113 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully term on android works better than snes on android < 1397416256 106314 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, there are (fairly limited) RL which work pretty well < 1397416269 583451 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You can still implement keyboard scheme; however, then you need also a scheme that work if you have a non-keyboard device. < 1397416288 491993 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stuff like clicking on a location and a menu would be a big improvement < 1397416306 440011 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think touch screen interfaces are just terrible in general, though. < 1397416306 631131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that most smartphones and tablets on which people want to play NetHack don't have physical keyboards, and that I could use a soft keyboard if I wanted to but that it would take up a large amount of screen space < 1397416321 616860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus other alternativels are likely to be better < 1397416337 174904 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen space is not THAT big of a problem < 1397416355 410843 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more that keys are pretty small and you could move a lot out of that < 1397416368 393938 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like moving, picking up, opening/kicking doors, ... < 1397416371 145364 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do it well, you may need to change some parts of the game to be more like powder. < 1397416384 166532 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's powder? < 1397416388 759775 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wowwwww that C++ behavior < 1397416402 178136 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powder is a dungeon crawler written for consoles. < 1397416425 731390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really believe keyboard interface are much better than touchscreens and so on. < 1397416440 334011 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have seen it on nds < 1397416440 524672 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell fails to distinguish between the error and non-terminating cases: this can be seen as trading diagnostic power for speed" :') < 1397416441 178320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: POWDER started out as a project by Jeff Lait (famous both for POWDER and for many 7DRLs) to port NetHack to the DS by rewriting it from scratch, but after starting he decided to make a different game instead that was merely similar to NetHack, rather than identical < 1397416450 467419 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah :D < 1397416460 384539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's diverged more from that to become a roguelike of its own < 1397416463 594252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, GBA, not DS < 1397416465 214910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1397416469 362710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it got ported to a bunch of other systems < 1397416473 950468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was some Nintendo portable, anyway < 1397416486 829471 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even more than that i'd LOVE to have something dwarf fortress like for android < 1397416488 418284 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So, the Famicom version of Attribute Zone, is supporting input from the keyboard in all cases! You can use the standard controller but only for playing ROM levels and the other features are not supported unless you use a keyboard) < 1397416527 386858 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :dwarf fortress is already unplayable on a PC, and uses too much power < 1397416532 161816 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you guys know cataclysm? < 1397416538 429514 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I suspect some of that is due to bad programming < 1397416538 620284 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: yeah, i play it via ssh :D < 1397416550 434693 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite unsure < 1397416570 362392 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do think the maths behind it are pretty well < 1397416583 453173 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That http://blog.regehr.org/archives/161 is wrong when it says "int main(void) { unsigned short a = 65535; return a + 1; } -- may return 65536 or 0 -- depending on whether the particular C implementation being used has defined the size of an unsigned short to be 16 bits or to be larger than 16 bits", incidentally. It can return 0 (if both unsigned short and unsigned int are 16 bits), 65536 (if ... < 1397416589 480694 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the size of int is 18 bits or larger) or "the result is implementation-defined or an implementation-defined signal is raised" (if short is 16 bits and int is 17 bits), or the behaviour is undefined (if both short and int are 17 bits). < 1397416597 164684 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I continue to hold the position that df2 is not actually a game, based on my attempt to "play" it < 1397416619 151393 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: some promotion thing? < 1397416623 79228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :df2 as in a sequel to dwarf fortress, or a sequel to slaves to armok? < 1397416628 11186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK, although I don't expect most computers to have 17-bits numbers < 1397416639 173009 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: df2? < 1397416640 910381 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you should point that out, just to give more power to the "can't reason bout my C" thing < 1397416645 73453 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's sta2, not df2. < 1397416649 906566 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1397416651 316556 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is possible but many programs wouldn't work so well on such things anyways, regardless of that. < 1397416654 130875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, integer promotions. They are mentioned in comment #6 but without considering the case of small ints. < 1397416684 230298 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched a tutorial about df once < 1397416686 988573 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also mentioned in comment #16 in an almost complete form. < 1397416711 348561 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after half an hour it said "finally, we are in the game. this is, where most of the players quit, too" < 1397416732 435321 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397416739 37879 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's missing the implementation-defined case, but that's just additional finessing. < 1397416747 109765 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397416754 166773 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm now i wish i had more time/effort, i want to prove kinetics is impossible again < 1397416783 627839 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397416838 467193 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397416880 489844 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was trying to figure out if 16-bit short, 17-int is legal; if int and unsigned int have to be the same size, it isn't < 1397416881 134143 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: the one time i tried to play df we were going to do a tradeoff game but worldgen took so long that we ran out of time < 1397416892 949391 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to be a multiple of CHAR_BIT < 1397416896 588387 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1397416909 188427 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't CHAR_BIT be 1 < 1397416910 630720 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: let me guess "nah, maximum time, what could go wrong" < 1397416911 645532 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, could int be 24 bits, 7 of which are padding bits (with unsigned int being 24 bits) < 1397416917 281662 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: no, has to be at least 8 < 1397416919 721814 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: basically < 1397416921 897496 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: sucks < 1397416932 935030 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1397416934 287977 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bercoin thcoin norfualcoin reviejcoin datecoin cluecoin irkcoin sinrcoin anycoin hypecoin cluhiccoin undercoin l0jdcoin spacecoin develatlinecoin birthcoin dzecoin beakgefcoin leszccoin khalcoin < 1397416970 606636 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good coins < 1397416974 281603 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we've had "cluecoin" before < 1397416975 821215 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, good morning everyone < 1397416988 709706 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening kmc < 1397416995 482443 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello hello, we have been discussing weird C for far too long < 1397417000 347657 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime callforjudgement < 1397417001 269120 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for callforjudgement is Sun Apr 13 20:23:20 2014 < 1397417003 389572 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :anycoin sounds like it could be actually useful < 1397417003 581010 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry that I missed it :( < 1397417006 325455 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird C is like weird fiction except incredibly dull < 1397417011 949304 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the conversation's still going on < 1397417012 816717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you need a silver coin, gold coin, copper coin, platinum coin, lead coin, iron coin, and radioactive coin. < 1397417023 267310 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. cryptocoin compatible with every other cryptocoin) < 1397417041 738674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: Unsigned int can have padding too. < 1397417042 976683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1397417043 603383 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicoin would be another nice name for that < 1397417051 968414 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right, it's only unsigned char that can't < 1397417063 259438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unsigned char, and the exact-width integer types from . < 1397417064 807633 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unsigned char has to be able to type-pun correctly < 1397417075 514274 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah but they don't have to exist < 1397417080 217171 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 180Tantalumcoin < 1397417081 945144 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1397417092 18756 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one nice thing I noted is that C11 reserves uint9_t, uint10_t, etc., as well as the least and fast variants < 1397417101 494238 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote document of "text adventure intermediate language" < 1397417101 911756 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :180mTantalumcoin, rather < 1397417104 111916 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: like, i will farm a dogecoin in an hour and sell it for hundreds of dollars as a bitcoin? < 1397417105 165476 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :callforjudgement: heh < 1397417111 432240 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also POSIX reserves every name ending in _t? < 1397417115 908595 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes < 1397417121 859672 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/PfHL < 1397417129 116488 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some really broad reservations, though < 1397417134 129385 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: something like that, but the exchange rate could be reasonable (whatever that means) < 1397417136 289592 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C reserves everything starting with a capital E < 1397417141 149488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can write a compiler library for its use. < 1397417142 193209 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if errno.h is included < 1397417149 410606 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i call that "usd" < 1397417163 880716 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this good like it is now? < 1397417168 825 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: that's not a -coin < 1397417168 191928 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(splint will give warnings about that on high warning levels; that's one of its less buggy warnings) < 1397417174 836145 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :usdcoin < 1397417252 26926 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, mynamecoin < 1397417269 58486 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im gonna be famous < 1397417305 449210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX also reserves every identifier beginning with "str", "mem" or "wcs" if is included, and every identifier beginning with "str" if is included. < 1397417328 370473 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And everything beginning with "to" or "is" if is included. < 1397417333 475669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me if this document is better now, or if you think anything I did wrong. < 1397417337 423418 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just reserve the whole thing < 1397417345 69687 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you couldn't write programs < 1397417351 899923 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not < 1397417362 490736 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i smell a new esolang < 1397417362 683921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also all identifiers ending in _MIN or _MAX if is included. < 1397417363 856626 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually < 1397417373 757826 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397417376 215233 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :C with no non-reserved identifiers, and all reserved identifiers are used for a legal purpose < 1397417379 14832 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interesting < 1397417379 212128 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :greedy old posix < 1397417395 63393 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about storing data in argv, but sadly it doesn't have a standard name < 1397417504 438207 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use errno as an arbitrary int, I believe. < 1397417527 197423 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The macros are -- errno which expands to a modifiable lvalue that has type int and thread local storage duration, --" < 1397417531 857765 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think that would work < 1397417541 669204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though it's just one int.) < 1397417544 750966 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may be legal to overwrite stderr < 1397417545 180110 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you create a bunch of extra threads in order to gain more storage? < 1397417551 351441 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, you get a pointer < 1397417589 617285 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, communicating between them could be a pain < 1397417591 550979 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stderr" and such are not required to be lvalues. < 1397417605 301906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just "expressions of type "pointer to FILE" that point to FILE objects". < 1397417624 71625 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They're also macros.) < 1397417668 426965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the "file loophole", of course, if you allow for a reasonably consistent file system as seen by fopen/etc. < 1397417723 568829 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I'm not sure where the FILE * would go for doing more than one operation on an opened file. < 1397417790 931524 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close and open it again < 1397417806 235420 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you can't chain functions. < 1397417806 439728 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't close it if you read from it. < 1397417822 705279 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fcloseall() standard? < 1397417833 414281 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is. < 1397417839 854047 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1397417852 813709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway it'd be really convenient if you could, say, seek *and* read. < 1397417862 459868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GNU extension" < 1397417876 13786 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're in posix, there is optarg. < 1397417946 894559 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we're in POSIX, you can use open() and such, and stick the fd in... errno... except it's perhaps not the safest place when calling library functions. < 1397417965 401075 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :optind and opterr can store fds. < 1397417994 691796 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can dup2 it around to a known index. < 1397418016 781746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there's that. < 1397418034 700869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing this in C11 is more interesting; POSIX sounds like it'd be too easy < 1397418132 241338 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can always freopen("data.file", "w+", stderr); and then just use the stderr handle for storage. < 1397418209 405239 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stderr's readable, right? < 1397418220 264815 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can freopen it to any mode. < 1397418223 848509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that reading from stderr's one way to get at the terminal when you have a redirected stdin < 1397418235 237219 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a fragile one, there are better methods if on POSIX < 1397418289 751948 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, you can store a function pointer and retrieve it using signal. < 1397418312 750070 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Obviously, you can in fact store one per signal.) < 1397418351 158166 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might be handy, though you can of course store one in a file too. < 1397418389 955037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just take the address of a compound literal of a pointer-to-function type, and pass to fwrite.) < 1397418426 441931 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1397418435 746091 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though reading it back in any very useful way sounds slightly more tricky. < 1397418495 652355 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the hello, world program is easy. < 1397418515 334912 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1397418524 260054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397418534 433496 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397418587 769046 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png < 1397418663 326581 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397418708 218176 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you can use asctime for up to 26 bytes of storage. < 1397418739 196540 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: regarding usdcoin, see Xia, P. (2014) Dollarcoin: A cryptocurrency with proof-of-dollar. Presented at ACH SIGBOVIK 2014, Carnegie Mellon University, 1 April (pp. 75-77). http://sigbovik.org/2014/proceedings.pdf < 1397418766 941404 :heroux!~heroux@50708181.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1397418775 107992 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there is nothing crazy enough for not being done :D < 1397418779 610373 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1397418786 829033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: You can get a pointer, yes, but any call to asctime will overwrite the contents, right? < 1397418796 437771 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to imagine this is the xia of "prove newtonian mechanics impossible" fame < 1397418809 960712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: the proof of work entails writing a hash on a dollar bill, burning it, and posting the video to the block chain < 1397418829 833900 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#blazeit < 1397418889 545778 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :random question: does anyone know of a paper title better than "Can One Hear The Shape Of A Drum" < 1397418898 234248 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm loving this < 1397418917 677429 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is all sigbovik humorous? I take it from that chart in the paper that that's the poin < 1397418919 350387 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :point < 1397418966 338819 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, although it does publish humorous things that are real and impressive, as well as fake things < 1397418975 267297 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :notably http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/mario/ < 1397418984 8606 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :playfun rox my sox < 1397419406 835090 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When looking at Nock on esolang wiki it also links to the Urbit they mention, they use kelvin version numbering, where higher numbers indicate more likely to change and zero means it won't ever change at all. < 1397419452 48863 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that's clever < 1397419461 477526 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitches don't know bout my electron degeneracy pressure < 1397419512 211361 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's in #oteric.es < 1397419556 247928 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am kind of curious how many people joined and parted that as you said it, kmc < 1397419579 10153 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1397419585 315083 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least 1) < 1397419607 180945 :password2!~password@197.76.170.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397420046 636856 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1397420166 785385 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397420233 761443 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397420632 183542 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I am writing the C library for dealing with Text Adventure Intermediate Language, and then, maybe also the Haskell library can be written. < 1397420822 156283 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397421055 99136 :stuntaneous!~stuntaneo@2001:1af8:4700:a000:230:48ff:fed6:b9ce QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397421095 658215 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAIL < 1397421288 649664 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that sounds interesting < 1397421320 630464 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Inform (the only text adventure creation thing I know about) use Text Adventure Intermediate Language or does it use something else? < 1397421402 305412 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397421491 363736 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397421518 756424 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397421653 301543 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397422347 22077 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-29-210.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1397422352 311564 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: It compile into a Z-machine code, with some differences. < 1397422372 333066 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z-machine is OK too, but much more complicated than the one I design. < 1397422601 217691 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Inform also compiles into Glulx. < 1397422607 498417 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is even more complicated) < 1397423265 304802 :Slereah_!~jackal@80.10.159.218 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397423408 828721 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1397423424 620779 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397423652 233951 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1397423662 409486 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Both of them lack some features the other one has.) < 1397423662 868854 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397423691 771688 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397423774 443398 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39309&oldid=39287 5* 03Zerk 5* (+11) 10/* B */ ++Boxy < 1397423805 941455 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397424040 348827 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1397424046 660071 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may write some text adventure games using TAIL format and some using Z-machine format. < 1397424066 178062 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397424130 496212 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Client Quit < 1397424162 301677 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397424346 619342 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1397424481 218614 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1397424499 940686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Jafet: Here's a rudimentary brainfuck interpreter in mostly-correct interpreter-free C, as long as you preprocess it out: http://sprunge.us/QJXJ < 1397424506 608838 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397424509 106 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397424513 567660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only program it's been tested with, so expect bugs. < 1397424545 39110 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, brainfuck without input, that is. < 1397424559 940494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *identifier-free? < 1397424563 459875 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397424564 992254 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1397424566 628301 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinko. < 1397424590 65196 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1397424597 134569 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're storing data in stdin's file pointer? clever < 1397424601 777772 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, is that meant to be TC? < 1397424614 926672 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the file position is used as a variable safer than errno. < 1397424615 116991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, stderr's < 1397424616 784589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968: it's a BF interp < 1397424619 905475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1397424628 41450 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: typical C BF interps are not TC... < 1397424653 682662 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, under the limits imposed by sizeof (int) for the tape. < 1397424654 164517 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nice :D < 1397424657 74143 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, identifier-free < 1397424660 451546 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what interpreter-free is. < 1397424665 470680 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, you can use fseek to get around that though < 1397424667 97210 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguably) < 1397424670 908596 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftell is allowed to fail < 1397424679 779848 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's identifier-free post-pre-processing I suppose < 1397424688 704642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes. Or at least should be. < 1397424721 605372 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968: Right, though I'd need to mungle it even more for that, since I rely on seeking the same file to other places than the tape. < 1397424734 215214 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why is there a sizeof(int) limit? I thought the general argument in favour of C being TC is that file pointers are allowed to be bignums < 1397424747 673368 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, ftell calls < 1397424772 522629 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It keeps the tape pointer in one of those errno-read "variables", so that it can seek the stderr file between the program source and current tape cell. < 1397424838 333886 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm not entirely sure the initial reading of the brainfuck program is valid, but that could be worked around pretty easily by just embedding the program. < 1397424870 224880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's at least relying on rewind() to not set errno. < 1397424928 740399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just open the stdin file (which is never written to, only its position is used) a bit earlier so I can use V to store the program length over the rewind, actually. < 1397424938 220275 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ftell can fail < 1397424971 644574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guest46968: I mean that fizzie's program uses ftell < 1397424973 4360 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in POSIX (EOVERFLOW) < 1397424980 595833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus is bounded by off_t limits and so not TC < 1397424995 142647 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm telling you you're wrong < 1397425000 222889 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, oh < 1397425001 756031 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1397425004 389213 :Guest46968!~elliott@li278-81.members.linode.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed the context < 1397425008 857016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a program that didn't ftell could still be TC < 1397425062 834545 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/iMEW?c I think that's better w.r.t. the initial program loading. I'm probably not going to work around that TC limitation. < 1397425093 897907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it could be done very trivially by looking at brainfuck without output, in which case stdout can be dedicated for the tape, and can grow to arbitrary size without ftell issues. < 1397425104 612204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Brainfuck without output is kind of boring, though.) < 1397425210 237464 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paradoxspace.com/ < 1397425241 588767 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.paradoxspace.com/fourohfour < 1397425248 471669 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not entirely sure something like fwrite(&errno, 1, 1, stderr); is completely valid, since I guess if library functions are free to set errno whenever they want, fwrite could e.g. zero errno before reading in the bytes. < 1397425379 561905 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most functions only modify errno if there's an error < 1397425385 155212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1397425408 63662 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1397425437 1110 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if they don't have to change it or if they must not change it though < 1397425452 736108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have to leave it the same, but maybe can change it during the call < 1397425465 159832 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's supposed to be unobservable because errno's thread-local < 1397425474 469204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't thought of passing &errno as a buffer to write before today < 1397425684 174301 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you can't take the address of errno, e.g. because it could be a macro that expands to a function call < 1397425727 378934 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. man that must have sucked People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" That's why they're called rulers, you know < 1397425728 696069 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1184) like good old time, with elbow and foot lengths of the king. man that must have sucked People would be always like "Hey king, can you drop by, I have stuff to measure" That's why they're called rulers, you know < 1397425740 93688 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's defined as an lvalue, IIRC < 1397425752 40748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it can be a macro that expands to a pointer dereference < 1397425786 50083 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is normally a macro that expands to a pointer dereference of a function call. < 1397425799 940146 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it would be a bit difficult to set errno if it's an rvalue < 1397425808 730768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is &*functioncall() legal? < 1397425808 921669 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $'#include \nerrno' | cpp | tail < 1397425809 509085 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​# 1 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/asm/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 "/usr/include/linux/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 26 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 47 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 3 4 \ extern int *__errno_location (void) __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) __attribute__ ((__const__)); \ # 37 "/usr/include/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 < 1397425835 512272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks more like head than tail < 1397425840 604812 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every lvalue should have an address. < 1397425882 115522 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | tail < 1397425882 722694 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​# 1 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/asm/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 "/usr/include/linux/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 26 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 47 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 3 4 \ extern int *__errno_location (void) __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) __attribute__ ((__const__)); \ # 37 "/usr/include/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ # 5 < 1397425891 46368 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait < 1397425895 394579 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | rev < 1397425895 979203 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​">nidts<" 1 # \ ">enil-dnammoc<" 1 # \ ">nidts<" 1 # \ 4 3 1 "h.onrre/edulcni/rsu/" 1 # \ 4 3 "h.onrre/edulcni/rsu/" 92 # \ 4 3 1 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 1 # \ 4 3 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 323 # \ 4 3 1 "h.sfederp/stib/ung-xunil-46_68x/edulcni/rsu/" 1 # \ 4 3 2 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 423 # \ 4 3 "h.serutaef/edulcni/rsu/" 653 # \ 4 3 1 "h.s < 1397425902 765506 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1397425905 790166 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | tac < 1397425906 478968 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { return (*__errno_location ()); } \ # 2 "" 2 \ \ # 59 "/usr/include/errno.h" 3 4 \ # 37 "/usr/include/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ extern int *__errno_location (void) __attribute__ ((__nothrow__)) __attribute__ ((__const__)); \ # 47 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 3 4 \ # 26 "/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/errno.h" 2 3 4 \ < 1397425945 453602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $'#include \nint main() { return errno; }\n' | cpp | grep main < 1397425946 75549 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { return (*__errno_location ()); } < 1397426152 766369 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :side note: i am kinda disappointed that there is a cat replacement called dog but no tac replacement called god < 1397426208 643153 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1397426219 978827 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1397426336 972088 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397426422 195200 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you notify Google of the bug in their server that isn't correctly implementing headerless HTTP? < 1397426439 408689 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are other bugs in their server too; sometimes a HEAD request returns 404 even though GET works properly.) < 1397426445 176247 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's defined as a "modifiable lvalue" and the possibility of it being *somefunction() is explicitly mentioned. < 1397426577 462894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: You are allowed to write such software if you like to make < 1397426616 70281 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that doesn't sound like any fun at all < 1397426639 356670 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then don't write such program, if you don't want to write such program. < 1397426689 816936 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only advantage would be being the founder of god < 1397427129 447184 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1397427401 51881 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1397427451 309265 :password2!~password@197.76.170.249 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1397428174 307139 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397428271 824200 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1397428311 748699 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1397430277 110840 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular QUIT :Quit: Excess Food < 1397430580 226402 :doesthiswork!b8ab3b18@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.171.59.24 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1397431299 154348 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1397432487 645668 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Boxy14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39310&oldid=39308 5* 03Zerk 5* (+248) 10mostly/* Nock Interpreter */ apparently things are reversible, partially. Which I supposed was implied by "unification". < 1397432513 962345 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1397432614 475868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started writing this library in C (for Text Adventure Intermediate Language), and then I should probably also write one for Haskell, and one for SQL, as well. If you want any other programming language then write it by yourself please < 1397432626 85703 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.71.198 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1397432644 873718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you have some idea how it could be represent by Haskell? < 1397432683 8837 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a better idea than I do? < 1397432730 704655 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1397432964 505333 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what Text Adventure Intermediate Language is < 1397433211 348879 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://sprunge.us/ULeC < 1397433292 303020 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1397433553 898652 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection