00:00:11 @quote shachaf agda 00:00:12 shachaf says: Everyone forgets about Agda Lovelace, the first constructivist. 00:00:18 Taneb: ☝ 00:00:44 :) 00:00:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:05:26 -!- nisstyre has quit (Client Quit). 00:07:39 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 00:15:28 -!- tromp has joined. 00:18:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:19:05 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:19:58 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 00:21:17 -!- Sorella has joined. 00:29:55 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:35:37 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:36:59 -!- conehead has joined. 01:01:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:45 http://i.imgur.com/kJxqkZ6.png software licenses are important 01:16:39 I hear IBM actually managed to get an exception to that license that allows them to use it for Evil too. (I'm not kidding, but the story may be false.) 01:16:54 Crockford is dumb and his license is dumb though. 01:19:31 http://dev.hasenj.org/post/3272592502/ibm-and-its-minions mmhm great 01:20:44 I mean if you use Crockford's JSON code as it stands then you're completely open to him wasting a lot of your time and money by deciding you're using it for Evil and trying to get you legally for it. 01:21:07 and since he's the kind of person to put a clause like that in a license, it's not really convincing to just assume he won't be obnoxious enough to. 01:21:21 the point is, someone not a programmer linked me to this and there's nothing to do but laugh 01:22:50 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:23:23 -!- tromp has joined. 01:26:15 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:27:59 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:34:38 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:50:27 <^v> "it has addition and subtraction, must be a brainfuck derivetive!" 01:50:52 <^v> ^ everyone who hasnt been to esolangs.org 01:52:28 -!- augur has joined. 01:52:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:53:33 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 03:46:26 http://www.sewingandembroiderywarehouse.com/embtrb.htm 04:26:35 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:31:50 Since #haskell is ignoring me, should I just ask questions in here? 04:32:01 (Or probably they just didn't see it or didn't know) 04:34:48 ask now or forever hold your piece 04:36:12 Urinate now or forever hold your piss 04:41:37 -!- tromp has joined. 04:57:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:57:36 -!- tromp has joined. 04:58:47 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:01:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:01:51 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:20:52 Is Elerea not a good fit if I want discrete events like 'line received from IRC'? 05:33:54 It looks as though the external function could end up causing loss for those things if the FRP network isn't fast enough 05:46:18 -!- w00tles has joined. 05:46:23 -!- w00tles has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 05:47:04 -!- w00tles has joined. 06:09:17 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:19:50 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 06:29:53 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 06:32:25 -!- password2 has joined. 06:35:28 -!- tertu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:51:00 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 07:02:03 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:05:58 -!- lexande has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:11:27 -!- lexande has joined. 07:14:59 -!- samebchase has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:16:45 -!- samebchase has joined. 07:24:15 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22109333/how-can-i-write-human-language-units-as-postfixes-in-haskell-like-3-seconds 07:24:29 Why does everyone love '3 seconds' whether it makes a lot of sense in the language or not? 07:24:39 It makes sense in Factor, much less so in Haskell... 07:25:40 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:28:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:33:48 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:38:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:00:30 -!- tromp has joined. 08:04:49 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:05:22 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:18:05 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 08:18:28 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:31:24 i like that 09:19:36 scary 09:23:45 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 10:00:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:29 if I'm not sure whether a language is esoteric or not, should I add it to the esolang wiki? 10:26:35 I guess it is esoteric 10:28:14 why is the bloody wiki stalling in the middle of my edits 10:30:21 -!- yorick has joined. 10:34:22 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:37:29 `unidecode ‘` 10:37:30 ​[U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK] [U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT] 10:39:36 fizzie: wiki is down hth 10:39:48 OCCASIONALLY 10:41:02 wfm 10:41:33 i opened a heap of tabs and not worked, then i complained, then it worked again 10:41:38 *none worked 10:42:29 > map ord "@\\[" 10:42:30 Can't resolve type class Functor f 10:42:31 [64,92,91] 10:44:28 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:46:01 b_jonas: we _do_ have a rule you cannot create categories without discussing first, though. *cough* 10:46:53 that rule is dumb 10:47:52 well then why didn't you repeal it while you hosted the wiki QED hth 10:48:09 enforcing it was more fun! 10:48:20 fancy 10:55:32 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:55:49 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 10:57:29 oerjan: we do? oh damn, sorry 10:57:46 what do I do now then? how do I put it up for discussion? 10:57:48 Hmm. 10:58:09 an yes, that seems like a dumb rule 10:59:40 I am not sure why it is being slow, the computer it runs on is mostly idle. 10:59:47 (But it was v. slow for me, too.) 11:00:54 b_jonas: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization 11:11:21 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 11:15:51 11:41:38 *none worked 11:15:55 oops 11:16:12 YEAH IT WAS HORRIBLE 11:27:15 what, a new HWN i thought they'd died 11:32:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 11:35:40 -!- glogbackup has joined. 11:52:45 "•Fuuzetsu: I know someone who pulls in Lens just for & and ??" <-- it's tempting... 11:54:07 hm looks like there's been another bitcoin crash 12:08:57 erm, it has? 12:09:00 *there 12:12:59 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:13:15 http://i.imgur.com/Bsy1sZI.jpg 12:13:45 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 12:14:17 I want to add the ant brain language from ICFP 2004 defined at "https://alliance.seas.upenn.edu/~plclub/cgi-bin/contest/ants.html" to the wiki. what name do you suppose I should use for that language? 12:15:38 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:15:39 it could be "Ant state machine" or "Ambiant" or "Ant brain" or "ICFP 2004" or something else 12:17:00 elliott: bitcoinity's graph fell from 0.6 to 0.4 in the last week 12:17:14 pfft, you call that a crash? 12:17:17 it's not a crash until it halves 12:17:28 for anything _other_ than bitcoin it would be :P 12:17:34 that's the joke~ 12:17:37 b_jonas: mediawiki supports redirects, so pick your favourite and redirect th eothers 12:18:31 ion: argh XD 12:19:09 finally ghc might get the (:: T) extension i babbled about in 2008 or thereabouts 12:21:10 I guess it is actually useful these days 12:21:12 especially with lens 12:21:16 maybe 12:21:22 I guess lens wants something stronger 12:21:48 elliott: augustss noted that it could also be used as a proxy 12:22:10 oh, that is very nice 12:22:16 sizeOf (:: CInt) 12:22:29 I'm doing these regexp crosswords and one of the 'definitions' is [ABC]\s(LU|LP)]* and there is a mismatched ] whatdoido 12:22:33 :t sizeof 12:22:34 Not in scope: `sizeof' 12:22:34 Perhaps you meant one of these: 12:22:34 `IM.size' (imported from Data.IntMap), 12:22:54 :t sizeOf 12:22:55 Not in scope: `sizeOf' 12:22:55 Perhaps you meant one of these: 12:22:55 `IM.size' (imported from Data.IntMap), 12:23:16 Koen_: \] or put it right after the [ 12:23:23 the latter is quite horrid. 12:23:32 (IIRC) 12:23:38 @hoogle sizeOf 12:23:39 Foreign.Storable sizeOf :: Storable a => a -> Int 12:23:39 Network.Socket.Internal sizeOfSockAddr :: SockAddr -> Int 12:23:39 Network.Socket.Internal sizeOfSockAddrByFamily :: Family -> Int 12:23:59 elliott: i think Koen_ means the regexp is already given as that 12:24:05 yup 12:24:08 oh, I see 12:24:16 you complain, I guess 12:24:53 I'm feeling very uncomfortable 12:25:06 ...? 12:26:25 killed by unmatched brackets 12:37:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 12:45:13 -!- tromp has joined. 12:45:50 This code is supposed to return values generally in the range [-10, 10], but it's returning values in [-10^300, 10^300]. :/ 12:47:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:51:00 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:51:33 -!- tromp has joined. 12:52:16 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 12:56:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:56:35 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 13:00:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:01:18 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:14:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:37:40 -!- nisstyre has joined. 13:44:55 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:48:18 hehe http://esolangs.org/wiki/Ndef 13:48:24 nice joke langauge 13:50:55 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 13:54:24 I love "the famous real-time interpreter notepad.exe". 13:59:10 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 14:11:38 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:15:50 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:09:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:10:20 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:26:16 -!- spiette has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:27:49 -!- tertu has joined. 15:33:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:37:54 -!- spiette has joined. 15:57:13 -!- Sellyme has quit (Quit: Oh god my bouncer is down help). 15:59:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:59:02 linear algebra: a load of horseshit? discuss 15:59:13 -!- Sellyme has joined. 15:59:38 -!- tertu has joined. 15:59:57 Is there a language that let's you define input types based on whether certain methods exist? 16:00:25 kinda like int foo(some type where int bar(int) exists ) 16:00:42 *int bar(that certain type) 16:03:06 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 16:03:10 -!- CutoutCapitalist has joined. 16:04:18 mroman: ocaml 16:04:23 go, I think 16:04:35 elm, I think 16:06:37 Can you give me a keyword to look it up? 16:06:45 It's not generics 16:06:49 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:07:07 try "row polymorphism" 16:07:18 yeah, what FireFly said 16:07:36 or "static duck typing" is what a plebian would call it, so you might get results that way too :P 16:08:08 oh 16:08:10 ok 16:08:23 Record subtyping? 16:08:27 Go hase some cool interface stuff 16:09:22 well.. it's an interface alright 16:10:05 https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~neelk/rows.pdf has some slides on the topic 16:10:14 but you probably found those already 16:16:55 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:18:14 -!- Sellyme has joined. 16:21:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 16:33:13 -!- ^v has joined. 16:35:59 http://codepad.org/BkcDW8CK <- something like that 16:36:14 although showing you sketch-code isn't probably gonna say much :D 16:38:12 function addStuff(<* +(a) => a *> a, <* +(a) => a *> b) would allow you to pass two things that support the + operator 16:38:31 -!- CutoutCapitalist has left ("Leaving"). 16:38:48 the real question though is whether this kind of stuff requires run-time checks or not 16:40:49 You can create a list of "objects" that all support addition 16:41:37 which means there can be a double and an integer in it 16:41:44 but I might not be able to add doubles and integers 16:41:53 which is why I'd need a "homogenous" constraint 16:42:32 The other thing is knowing at compile time which overloaded function I'd actually have to invoke 16:42:45 and I guess that's not possible 16:45:28 http://codepad.org/x9yx3VQb <- Haskell seems to know which version of a function it has to invoke 16:45:34 for existential quantification 16:50:11 Is my assumption correct that this can't be decided at compile time? 16:51:43 i don't think it is; you could have some function return Objs and pass them to squ 16:52:03 then which function it has to invoke depends on that x value's type 16:52:58 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 16:55:45 infinite ducks typing for an infinite amount of time will eventually verify a correct program 17:06:11 does boily ever leave metasepia in here while he's at work 17:08:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:24 he did once when specifically asked to 17:09:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:10:50 kolgomorov complexity blows my mind every time 17:12:25 kolmogorov? 17:12:41 err, yes 17:13:56 koglormov 17:14:30 whatever 17:14:42 the correctly spelled complexity blows my mind every time 17:15:32 the fact that the difference between different systems is only constant is just amazing 17:15:53 it's "just" turing universality 17:18:10 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:21:57 yes 17:22:07 but the constant factor is what's so strange 17:22:38 not all universal machines are time-equivalent; it's likely the case that TMs are slower than QTMs are slower than NTMs 17:22:39 why 17:23:08 yeah, there are extensions to kolmogorov complexity that require the program to have similar complexities, and there's no constant factor there 17:26:01 why what? 17:26:17 i don't understand your question. 17:26:22 it's not a question 17:26:32 i don't understand your message 17:26:50 ?! time does not even the picture, it's all about program size. 17:26:51 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 17:27:16 Given two models of turing-universality, kolmogorov complexity of a string between the two varies by at most a constant 17:27:31 yes, because you can just stick an interpreter in front 17:27:48 This doesn't come from "just" turing universality, because there are other properties like time complexity which do depend on the model 17:27:52 and that's what's so weird 17:28:01 time complexity is irrelevant to kolmogorov complexity. 17:28:19 yes, I agree 17:28:22 the constant factor is just for the program size. the new interpreter program combo might run exponentially slower. 17:28:27 sure 17:28:33 so what are you talking about. 17:29:39 https://xkcd.com/386/ 17:30:22 Bike: I am simply trying to draw a comparison between two properties of universal turing machine 17:33:45 The biggest problem about this "as few constraints as possible" is, that you can't do much withit 17:34:00 you can pass in a list of squarables to a function that squares them and returns them in a new list 17:34:07 but you can't get those values out again :) 17:34:33 because you can't cast it back to a double (because a squarable isn't always a double) 17:34:50 The function would have to make a promise to NOT change any type in the list 17:34:56 as well as NOT change the length of the list 17:35:36 then one could safely pass a list of doubles and cast it back to a list of doubles since we know the function doesn't affect the types 17:35:53 and I guess then we arrived at dependant types :( 17:37:29 especially with custom user defined types/containers that's probaly a little bit tricky 17:37:35 to verify that no contained type is changed 17:37:54 for lists you could just block add and some other list functions 17:38:25 https://peerj.com/articles/338/ scientists are fucked up 17:40:24 not as fucked up as the participants who stung themselves 17:40:37 or let them sting them? 17:40:44 I'm not sure what the correct pronoun here is :( 17:41:01 ... as the participants who let them(the scientists) sting them(the participants)? 17:41:15 the participant was the experimenter, is the point. 17:41:30 Bike: "Medical terminology: Buttocks / Layperson terminology: Buttock" nice 18:02:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:09:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:15:59 -!- oklopol has joined. 18:31:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:42:43 mroman: go also has static duck typing I think, but I'm not sure 18:43:48 well, I think they're both static and dynamic, sort of like haskell's classes, as in the validity is checked in runtime but the methods are resolved partly in runtime 18:44:01 -!- avid has joined. 18:45:39 -!- avid has quit (Quit: tulip). 18:52:13 was the first "runtime" there meant to be "compile time"? 18:52:16 -!- olsner has joined. 18:57:34 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:58:10 -!- yorick has joined. 19:08:23 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:12:03 -!- ^v has joined. 19:15:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:21:45 kmc: yes, sorry 19:21:51 validity is checked in compile time 19:29:08 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 19:29:23 -!- ^v has joined. 19:31:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:36:01 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:38:49 * oerjan wonders who made him a reddit response that was deleted. 19:43:57 b_jonas: yeah 19:44:06 interface types in Go are used for two different things, though 19:44:45 you can call the methods in the interface, but you can also do typecase and casts on the dynamic type of the value 19:45:39 and since Go doesn't have actual polymorphism, it's very common to pass "interface {}" and do runtime checks on it :< 19:46:07 :'( 19:46:32 by contrast Haskell a) has a real type system, b) has a separate facility for dynamic casts, which is much less frequently used because see (a) 19:47:23 interface{} is the top type. 19:47:32 yep 20:10:10 oh, btw, these guys are back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH0n_Ew2YDM 20:13:43 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:24:22 -!- conehead has joined. 20:24:26 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:24:53 -!- ^v has joined. 20:29:11 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:44:22 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 20:46:23 -!- tertu has joined. 20:51:13 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:21:46 elliott, I have a strange feeling that your day was more interesting than mine 21:22:02 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:45:50 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:46:39 -!- yorick has joined. 22:02:46 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 22:04:58 https://twitter.com/haley/status/451838031297646592/photo/1/large 22:08:27 butt that makes no sense. 22:17:08 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:17:15 -!- tertu has joined. 22:17:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 22:25:46 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:44:51 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:48:56 -!- boily has joined. 22:53:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:56:32 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 23:07:19 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:07:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:26:51 How can I do a signed multiplication using unsigned multiplication? Is the only way to take the absolute value of both multiplicands, multiply, then set the correct sign afterwards? 23:28:13 how could you do better? if the call will only take and output naturals, then you need to have a "downgrade" and an "upgrade" step 23:28:48 abs to get something you can pass to unsigned multiplication, then applying the sign to regain the information, seems minimal 23:30:05 I wasn't sure if there's some magical bit twiddling thing that somehow works :-) 23:30:33 there is. just make sure you use enough bitwidth 23:31:21 oh, okay, so it's unsigned multiplication on the two's complement form? 23:31:30 yeah 23:31:36 that was unclear to me 23:31:41 Yes, sorry :-) 23:32:02 right, I can see how it's not obviously impossible to do better then :P 23:32:03 it's just multiplication (mod 2^n) 23:32:34 and it will work as long as the multiplication of the value bits don't seep into the sign bit 23:32:44 *doesn't 23:33:48 (well, carry) 23:34:33 put differently, you can think of it as working in the 2-adic system 23:35:12 *number system 23:36:11 -!- ^v has joined. 23:38:15 * impomatic is playing British Legends :-) 23:41:30 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 23:42:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Niet). 23:49:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:52:11 Ok so in Elemera or whatever it's called, there's externalMulti, which I completely didn't notice until now 23:52:15 Elera 23:56:28 emeria? 23:56:57 @messages-loot 23:56:57 Koen_ said 11h 33m 11s ago: yeah I watched the latest captain america film with a friend and of course the bad guys from the opening scene are french (the bad guys are always french...) or so did they say!!! they were OBVIOUSLY quebecois 23:57:27 @tell Koen_ eh? eeeeeeh? like, real Québécois people for real real? 23:57:27 Consider it noted.