←2014-03-18 2014-03-19 2014-03-20→ ↑2014 ↑all
00:16:57 <kmc> free as in nothing left to lose
00:17:32 <Taneb> kmc, help I am really nervous right now and I do not know why
00:19:03 <kmc> damn
00:19:10 <kmc> I don't know how I can help
00:19:45 <Taneb> I think it may because I ate some cheese really quickly
00:28:03 <Taneb> So far nothing bad has happened
00:31:15 <quintopia> Taneb: free seats are seats that aren't being used. therefore you mean that all software should not be used?
00:31:51 <Taneb> Yes
00:32:10 <Taneb> So if anyone wants to use any software, they can just find it and use it
00:32:20 <Taneb> Because nobody else is
00:33:30 <oerjan> free beer speech seats
00:34:36 <quintopia> Taneb: rather, if anyone wants to use any software, they shouldn't
00:46:46 <^v> im having trouble making a malbolge inturpreter
00:47:07 <^v> methinks i am loading the program wrong
00:47:10 <^v> what is the format
00:47:43 <^v> im doing a base conversion from "!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~" to "012"
00:48:13 <^v> then splitting it by 10 trits
00:49:02 <^v> wait
00:49:16 <^v> i probably did it horribly wrong
00:50:03 <oerjan> well the input should be ASCII codes
00:50:47 <^v> so a string.byte? ._.
00:51:08 <oerjan> possibly...
00:52:05 <oerjan> in particular, ! would be 33 in decimal or ...lessee... 1020 in trinary
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00:54:45 <oerjan> @run showIntAtBase 3 intToDigit (ord '!') ""
00:54:47 <lambdabot> "1020"
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00:55:27 <^v> cool
00:55:28 <^v> <pong> .mb (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vx/4Rs+0No-&Jk)"Fh}|Bcy?`=*z]Kw%oG4UUS0/@-ejc(:'8dc
00:55:29 <^v> -^v- pong, Üù``AJ¥óú¸X
00:55:50 <^v> (^v is a bot on that net, and i am pong)
00:56:08 <^v> there are probably more characters though
00:56:18 <^v> it removes invalid ones
00:56:32 <^v> but yeah, it no werk
00:56:45 <oerjan> technically i believe you should err out on invalid ones
00:57:09 <^v> well the removing part is in my respond function
00:57:29 <^v> so i dont have to filter newlines n stuff for every single function
00:57:40 <oerjan> well duh
00:57:58 <^v> hmm
00:58:13 <^v> this is the first time i got it to print something
00:58:27 <oerjan> i mean that the input reading should err out on invalid characters, only whitespace should be ignored
00:58:50 <^v> i might have just fcked up the instruction that changes a
00:59:15 <^v> oerjan, i do a gsub to remove invalid chars .-.
01:00:53 <oerjan> oh well
01:02:55 <^v> removed some mod 3^10 and got -^v- pong, §ç&ñFÏ‘æT
01:05:00 <oerjan> note as usual that the reference interpreter and original specification don't match each other on i/o.
01:05:09 <oerjan> in case you are working from the latter.
01:05:23 <oerjan> (the wiki has a specification based on the interpreter)
01:05:42 <^v> im working from the wiki
01:05:56 <oerjan> good, good
01:06:57 <oerjan> note one advantage to erring out on invalid characters is that you actually get a warning if your program reading is buggy...
01:07:34 <oerjan> oh and btw you cannot detect those with regexp, i think.
01:07:47 <oerjan> because they depend on the mod 94 position.
01:07:59 <^v> am i supposed to increment c after every instruction
01:08:12 <^v> even if it jumped?
01:08:43 <oerjan> hm how was that
01:09:12 <^v> c=mem[d]
01:09:49 <^v> when inturpreting assembly i dont increment eip if it was changed by jmp
01:12:21 <oerjan> hm i think you are.
01:14:34 <oerjan> yep you are, checked the c interpreter there is no special case for i.
01:15:08 <^v> ok
01:15:50 <^v> -^v- pong, §ƒwwsX¶¥,?Óñ
01:15:53 <^v> this is strange
01:16:26 <^v> the repeating ww is similar to the repeating ll in hello
01:16:39 <oerjan> heh
01:16:58 <oerjan> those are not ascii characters though.
01:17:29 <oerjan> dammit hackego is gone
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01:17:59 <oerjan> ^ord §ƒwwsX¶¥,?Óñ
01:17:59 <fungot> 194 167 198 146 119 119 115 88 194 182 194 165 44 63 195 147 195 177
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01:18:13 <^v> aww, i like hack ego
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01:18:23 <^v> also, my client probbably turned into unicode
01:18:26 <oerjan> it has a command for calculating unicode codepoints
01:18:29 <^v> leme get an actual hex dump
01:19:12 <oerjan> my client would have turned it into unicode too, anyway
01:19:12 <oerjan> or wait hm
01:19:16 <oerjan> > map ord "§ƒwwsX¶¥,?Óñ"
01:19:17 <idris-ircslave> Can't resolve type class Functor f
01:19:18 <lambdabot> [167,402,119,119,115,88,182,165,44,63,211,241]
01:19:25 <oerjan> that's better
01:19:53 <^v> mfw
01:19:55 <^v> 0xA70x830x770x770x730x580xB60xA50x2C0x3F0xD30xF1
01:20:02 <^v> oh, im confused by the 0x
01:20:16 <oerjan> > map (chr.(+(-11)).ord) "§ƒwwsX¶¥,?Óñ"
01:20:16 <idris-ircslave> No such variable chr.
01:20:17 <lambdabot> "\156\391llhM\171\154!4\200\230"
01:20:23 <^v> 0xA7 0x83 0x77 0x77 0x73 0x58 0xB6 0xA5 0x2C 0x3F 0xD3 0xF1
01:20:32 <oerjan> that doesn't look like it helped
01:21:02 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vx/4Rs+0No-&Jk)"Fh}|Bcy?`=*z]Kw%oG4UUS0/@-ejc(:'8dc
01:21:02 <EgoBot> Hello World!
01:21:41 <oerjan> well you are printing the right _number_ of characters, which is sort of a hint that everything used other than output is working
01:21:58 <oerjan> how are you storing trits
01:22:58 <oerjan> @run zipWith ((-)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "§ƒwwsX¶¥,?Óñ"
01:22:59 <lambdabot> [-95,-301,-11,-11,-4,-56,-95,-54,70,45,-111,-208]
01:23:02 <^v> as numbers
01:23:34 <^v> then i use base conversion when i need to rotate them
01:23:56 <^v> though can probably use some math instead
01:24:01 <oerjan> yes.
01:24:33 <^v> also when using crz
01:25:14 <^v> this is strange /me slaps wikipedia
01:25:23 <^v> For example, crz 0001112220, 0120120120 gives 100102221.
01:25:36 <oerjan> @run zipWith ((,)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "§ƒwwsX¶¥,?Óñ"
01:25:38 <lambdabot> [(72,167),(101,402),(108,119),(108,119),(111,115),(32,88),(87,182),(111,165)...
01:26:06 <^v> yet the table says different
01:26:22 <^v> the table says 2,2 = 1
01:26:35 <^v> but the second to last digit is 2
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01:27:02 <oerjan> um are you using the wikipedia specification, i was looking at esolang. not that there should be a difference
01:27:23 <^v> the tables are same
01:27:33 <^v> just the wikipedia example is weird
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01:29:08 <oerjan> there are spurious last 0 digits in the arguments
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01:29:18 <oerjan> no wait
01:29:43 <oerjan> there's a missing digit in the answer, of course
01:29:54 <oerjan> it's only 9 digits
01:29:57 <oerjan> *trits
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01:31:48 <^v> /stab wikipedia
01:32:55 <oerjan> someone misunderstood what the numbers were for https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malbolge&diff=590632950&oldid=587042925
01:34:42 <oerjan> i should have noticed that edit, i watch that page
01:35:09 <^v> progress! i forgot to increment d
01:35:18 <^v> @run zipWith ((,)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "fYnnóྐྵfB!"
01:35:22 <^v> derp
01:35:23 <oerjan> undid that misedit
01:35:25 <^v> @run zipWith ((,)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "fYnnóྐྵfB!"
01:35:26 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:42:
01:35:26 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at character '\157'
01:36:00 <oerjan> @run zipWith ((,)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "fYnn]óྐྵfB!"
01:36:01 <lambdabot> [(72,102),(101,89),(108,110),(108,110),(111,93),(32,243),(87,224),(111,190),...
01:36:13 <oerjan> ^v: you must use utf8 with lambdabot.
01:36:53 <oerjan> interesting, ! is now correct :P
01:37:39 <oerjan> @run zipWith ((-)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "fYnn]óྐྵfB!"
01:37:40 <lambdabot> [-30,12,-2,-2,18,-211,-137,-79,-71,6,34,0]
01:38:03 <oerjan> funny how you're still printing the right number of characters
01:38:21 <oerjan> hm an idea...
01:38:36 <oerjan> ^v: are you remembering to initialize the rest of memory correctly?
01:38:50 <^v> yeah i should be doing that properly
01:39:04 <^v> ill try offseting it and seeing if i derpd
01:39:11 <Jafet> It is apparent that malbolge is not only hard to write programs for, it is also hard to write programs to.
01:39:57 <oerjan> @run zipWith ((xor)`on`ord) "Hello World!" "fYnn]óྐྵfB!"
01:39:59 <lambdabot> [46,60,2,2,50,211,183,209,203,10,38,0]
01:40:28 <oerjan> i can't see any _obvious_ connection between the right and wrong chars
01:41:54 <^v> does hello world use jump?
01:42:03 <oerjan> perhaps that program simpl... precisely what i was going to say
01:42:45 <oerjan> because if not, then as long as you are doing the right instructions, but wrongly, you would get the right number of output but completely scrambled
01:44:10 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vx/4Rs+0No-&Jk)"
01:44:11 <EgoBot> ​.. \ \ .N0l
01:44:17 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]
01:44:18 <EgoBot> No output.
01:44:29 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY32Vx/
01:44:30 <EgoBot> ​.==Y
01:44:33 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]~6ZY3
01:44:34 <EgoBot> ​..NN
01:44:37 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]~6
01:44:38 <EgoBot> ​.o
01:44:42 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9]~
01:44:42 <EgoBot> ​.$
01:44:47 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`#9
01:44:48 <EgoBot> ​#
01:44:51 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<
01:44:51 <EgoBot> No output.
01:44:53 <oerjan> !malbolge (=
01:44:54 <EgoBot> No output.
01:44:55 <oerjan> !malbolge (
01:44:56 <EgoBot> No output.
01:45:04 <oerjan> !malbolge (=<`
01:45:04 <EgoBot> 9
01:45:10 <oerjan> ok that's pretty short
01:45:18 <oerjan> ^v: perhaps try that shorter program?
01:45:49 <^v> :D crash
01:45:56 <oerjan> fancy
01:46:32 <^v> aand one of the memory addreses is somehow a string..
01:46:40 <oerjan> i don't think a malbolge program should technically be able to crash, iirc
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01:48:54 <oerjan> i recommend debugging stuff.
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01:49:40 <Jafet> Just call this a variant of malbolge and challenge people to write helloworld in it
01:50:27 <oerjan> good policy
01:51:29 <^v> okay, i just set a __newindex erroring when it tries to set anything to a string, and it diddnt error
01:51:36 <^v> the amount of impossible
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02:26:40 <^v> woooot
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02:26:44 <^v> okay it works
02:26:49 <^v> thanks oerjan
02:26:57 <oerjan> congrats
02:27:55 <^v> ill start optimizing and post the cods
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03:02:33 <BeingUntoDeath> WOAH.
03:02:40 <BeingUntoDeath> There's an esoteric channel?
03:02:47 <BeingUntoDeath> :)
03:02:53 <oerjan> !welcome BeingUntoDeath
03:02:54 <EgoBot> BeingUntoDeath: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:03:19 <BeingUntoDeath> aha!
03:05:50 <BeingUntoDeath> wait... so what the hell is an esoteric programming language?
03:05:56 <BeingUntoDeath> i'm new to programming.
03:05:59 <BeingUntoDeath> learning ruby.
03:06:31 <kmc> weird for the sake of weird
03:06:56 <BeingUntoDeath> hmmmmm. i'm a student of esoterica and the occult. how are they related?
03:08:33 <Bike> not, except that i used to tell people their futures for money, and now i'm here
03:09:04 <BeingUntoDeath> what? lol.
03:09:04 <kmc> i've invented a form of divination which involves clicking the random link on jerkcity
03:10:03 <BeingUntoDeath> i want my first app to be for occultists
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03:10:31 <BeingUntoDeath> but ive wanted to do it in ruby.
03:10:32 <Bike> i think zzo does astrology programming but he's not here right now.
03:10:41 <BeingUntoDeath> fascinating.
03:11:15 <Bike> anyway if kmc wasn't clear enough, esoteric programming languages are weird for the sake of things. for example, /// has a weird name, and also has only one operation, string replacement. the wiki has lots of examples.
03:11:34 <Bike> usually the weirdness is something CS-theoretical rather than being devoted to Imhotep
03:12:09 <oerjan> Bike: that is incorrect, it has _two_ operations.
03:12:17 <oerjan> (the other is printing)
03:12:20 <Bike> the other is your mother
03:13:26 <oerjan> i think you are confusing me with agathe heterodyne hth
03:13:28 <oerjan> *agatha
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03:17:08 <Sgeo> Ugh I want cough drops but as candy but that's probably bad
03:18:17 <BeingUntoDeath> lol!
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03:19:00 <Bike> my precognitive abilities are as of yet too weak to stave off connection failures
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03:35:55 <^v> o/ i finished it somewhat http://hastebin.com/dekarabime.lua
03:38:26 <kmc> https://github.com/mitsuhiko/jinja2/blob/27ffd01f95cad7740497a32b22e4ef9d29762162/jinja2/debug.py#L267
03:38:30 <kmc> def _init_ugly_crap():
03:38:53 <kmc> it's not a real party until you're calling the CPython API through ctypes
03:39:15 <^v> me no likey python
03:40:05 <Bike> scary code there
03:40:45 <^v> malbolge is scarier
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03:45:09 <Bike> by the by, if i make an amusing esothing that isn't really a language, where should i dump that
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03:49:18 <oerjan> i was wondering the same thing back when i looked at roman numeral look-and-say
03:49:38 <oerjan> never wrote it up properly, anyway
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04:00:37 <Sgeo> Blah Microsoft not documenting internally used files
04:01:00 <Sgeo> Which have a strong probability of harming other organizations if incorrect
04:01:32 <maurer> Sgeo: That is... super vague
04:01:35 <maurer> but intriguing
04:01:55 <Bike> yeah, actually writing it up and constructing it is the main obstacle. especially since i have actual obligations for some reason
04:01:57 <Sgeo> IE compatibility list
04:02:26 <Bike> also it /might/ be one of those things where in a paper you'd relegate it to an appendix and it'd be ten pages of numbers, i don't know yet
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04:04:34 <Sgeo> http://www.sleepphones.com/mp3/free-mp3-downloads I assume the binaural stuff is BS?
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04:05:13 <Sgeo> Still nice music
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04:08:43 <Sgeo> My dad used to believe in that stuff
04:09:10 <Sgeo> And then I talked to teachers at school about it, and then my dad said I shouldn't do that. (The teachers had no reaction that I remember to the idea)
04:18:29 <^v> maldoge http://puu.sh/7AWIf.png
04:19:18 <Bike> binaural beats are pretty crap yeah.
04:19:32 <Bike> more interesting than most of that ilk of stuff, though.
04:19:35 <kmc> ^v: haha
04:20:12 <^v> that has to be the worst looking image ive made in months
04:20:21 <^v> but its funeh
04:20:50 <BeingUntoDeath> "brainwave entrainment" changed my life.
04:21:12 <BeingUntoDeath> or at least, it seemed to be a major changing factor in some of my behaviors/how i cognized my abilities.
04:21:22 <BeingUntoDeath> unles it was placebo, of course.
04:21:47 <BeingUntoDeath> either way, i'm a huge fan of binaural beats, isochronic tones, brainwave entrainment in general.
04:22:12 <Sgeo> My dad never thought of it as entertainment, more of a sleep/concentration aid
04:22:23 <BeingUntoDeath> i have a light/sound machine that flashes lights and that took it to another level, at a time when I'd already have claimed binaural beats to have changed my life.
04:22:33 <BeingUntoDeath> entrainment
04:22:39 <Sgeo> Oh
04:22:48 <BeingUntoDeath> patterns are "entrainment", i think.
04:22:54 <Bike> Interesting science fact: One of the founders of endocrinology (the studies of hormones, etc.) was popular known for objecting fluid from dog testicles into his bloodstream so as to regain sexual virility (he was like eighty at the time)
04:23:01 <Bike> injecting, not objecting
04:23:17 <Sgeo> There's a pair of eye masks that flash lights into your eyes to try to help lucid dreaming
04:23:22 <^v> sounds epilepsy inducing
04:23:28 <Sgeo> I assume that that actually works, if you can train yourself to recognize the flashing lights
04:23:29 <Bike> i think Being is talking about a dreamachine.
04:23:30 <BeingUntoDeath> entrained* sorry.
04:23:37 <BeingUntoDeath> and yes sgeo, that is something else.
04:23:43 <BeingUntoDeath> that for a lucid dreaming cue.
04:23:55 <Sgeo> I love lucid dreaming, haven't had a lucid dream for a while though :(
04:23:58 <BeingUntoDeath> dreammachines are different as well.
04:24:12 <Bike> you odn't need equipment for it, man, just count your fingers and check clocks and such
04:24:28 <BeingUntoDeath> right! wish it was that easy for me.
04:24:31 <kmc> http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1002158
04:24:39 <Bike> that was at sgeo, i'm sure you have other stuff goin on
04:24:42 <kmc> http://treehovse.blogspot.com/2011/09/visor.html
04:24:47 <BeingUntoDeath> i've had one 90% successful lucid dream, lost it completely.
04:24:48 <Sgeo> There's a test that I tried in a dream once that failed
04:24:56 <Sgeo> I think trying to breath with my throat closed.
04:25:08 <BeingUntoDeath> wow.
04:25:10 <Sgeo> Other tests worked better, but I think I was less likely to try those other tests regularly
04:25:25 <Bike> just do them in real life a lot.
04:25:26 <BeingUntoDeath> not one of the ones i normally think about using.
04:25:39 <BeingUntoDeath> if i ever actually "thought" about using them during dreams at all.
04:26:22 <kmc> http://wealoneonearth.blogspot.com/search/label/goggles
04:26:33 <Bike> "One hypothesis is that the flickering interacts with natural ongoing oscillations in visual cortex, exciting a specific frequency of brain waves. This increases the activity in visual cortex. Activity can increase enough to overload the circuitry the brain uses for interpreting what it sees, causing you to see things that aren’t really there." man i have no idea how these people think brains work but damn if it doesn't sound exciting
04:27:06 <Bike> oh shit this paper has bifurcation theory :o
04:27:07 <BeingUntoDeath> that's right. at least that's similar to how i conceptualize it, and i tihnk i'm right.
04:27:10 <kmc> drugs are also pretty cool & fun
04:27:35 <BeingUntoDeath> i could take about 1-3 seconds of my light/sound machine on dmt.
04:27:43 <Bike> i only go for natural highs kmc, which is why i'm injecting myself with silicon
04:27:45 <BeingUntoDeath> before it was jesus and super spirally spirals... too much.
04:27:47 <BeingUntoDeath> very intense.
04:27:57 <BeingUntoDeath> LOL, bike.
04:28:18 <Bike> also silicone, but that's not for the high
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04:28:48 <BeingUntoDeath> i'm thrilled you brought up brainwave entrainment, sgeo. one of my favorite things in terms of... psychological healing and psychedelic experience.
04:29:02 <Bike> shee-it, one of the links on this page has a half page url
04:29:10 <Bike> i think i'm going to save it for later. it must be preserved
04:29:27 <BeingUntoDeath> i did research on brainwave entrainment in undergrad.
04:29:37 <BeingUntoDeath> Bike: is it about this topic?
04:29:48 <Bike> nah, some homework
04:29:54 <Sgeo> There's a YouTube video that if you stare at it, it causes vision to distort for a bit
04:29:58 <BeingUntoDeath> where'd you get that paragraph from ?
04:29:59 <Bike> kmc's link there just has a doi, sensibly enough
04:30:09 <Bike> the thing i quoted? the treehovse link
04:30:42 <kmc> Bike: doi, not to be confused with the psychedelic amphetamine of the same name
04:30:49 <Bike> the link with the long url is just to a Cell paper through like nine proxies because lolpaywalls
04:30:55 <BeingUntoDeath> OH wow, amazing.
04:30:56 <kmc> it's a ``hell of a drug'' as they say
04:31:18 <Bike> kmc: endocrinology is fun. i found out dopamine and ecstasy are both phenylethamines. Whoa, Man.
04:31:23 <kmc> yep
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04:31:42 <Bike> i really want to understand the chemistry better because it seems so arbitrary
04:31:49 <Bike> throw on a hydroxy WHOOPS YOU'RE HIGH
04:31:49 <BeingUntoDeath> your paragraph sounded like a light/sound machine... that thing must be awesome.
04:32:01 <kmc> yep
04:32:25 <Bike> Relatedly I found out hormones are ridiculously hard to make
04:32:42 <Bike> like, i've heard of some bad syntheses before, but we're talking literally twenty steps, some of which take days, just to get a precursor
04:32:51 <BeingUntoDeath> terence mckennas spoken on that precisely. i've had a psychopharmacology class, but we didn't go into that. guess it's neurochemistry.
04:32:52 <kmc> LSD is pretty hard to make too
04:33:01 <kmc> too bad
04:33:07 <BeingUntoDeath> what about dhea?
04:33:13 <kmc> growing psychedelic mushrooms is relatively easy, though
04:33:21 <Sgeo> http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
04:33:23 <Bike> doesn't help that i don't even understand the notation. superscripts on a delta? whoooo knowsssss
04:33:23 <Sgeo> oops
04:33:28 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbHEC8Snwhk
04:33:54 <Sgeo> ^^ at least that works on me. Although I think it's too long, could be shorter for probabl similar effect
04:34:00 <kmc> that's good stuff
04:34:26 <kmc> hey if you want a really weird optical illusion try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollough_effect
04:34:33 <kmc> if that's even the right term for this
04:34:40 <Bike> maybe when i'm old and insane i could have a garden of this shit. like some plants for curare, some pufferfish for TTX
04:34:44 <kmc> since it can last 3 months
04:34:52 <Sgeo> kmc: yeah no thanks
04:34:59 <Sgeo> I do not want distorted vision for that long
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04:35:09 <Bike> What's distortion
04:35:20 <Bike> maybe the distortion... is within you all along.
04:35:43 <^v> :P
04:35:53 <^v> all i get is a headache
04:36:12 <Bike> apparently the visual system in locusts (and several other model insects) behaves differently under different octopamine levels, and the levels fluctuate throughout the day anyway, apparently indicating the cells' properties change all the time (presumably adapting to different light levels etc.)
04:36:17 <Bike> p. cool, i m o
04:36:46 <kmc> i wanna be a cuttlefish
04:36:48 <kmc> or a cuddlefish
04:37:08 <Bike> their neurochemistry is probably less known. bastards are all... complicated.
04:37:32 <kmc> Squid Giant Axon would be a good name for a band
04:37:36 <Bike> i got literal maps of ganglia, man. ridges and shit. the good shit.
04:38:15 <Sgeo> I stupidly actually tried it
04:38:19 <Sgeo> Not for long
04:38:25 <Sgeo> Ugh can I wash out my eyes?
04:38:33 <kmc> mccullough?
04:38:44 <kmc> yes sgeo didn't anyone teach you how to use the eye wash station
04:39:10 <Bike> yes folks, all your favorite bands in this lineup! after the intro set by Mauthner C-Start it's time to jam with Squid Giant Axon! then maybe a slow jam with Oculocephalic Reflex
04:39:29 <kmc> employees must wash hands before returning to libc
04:39:29 <Bike> mauthner and the c-starts, perhaps
04:40:15 <BeingUntoDeath> lol! so you guys work with recursion?
04:40:35 <Bike> [joke]
04:40:52 <kmc> my friend has a shirt that just says "RECURSION" on the front in big block letters
04:40:57 <BeingUntoDeath> I'm curious, i've wanted to get into it, but i don't know much about data structures yet.
04:41:02 <Bike> i literally can't even think of a joke any more that's how sick i am of recursion
04:41:03 <BeingUntoDeath> lol.
04:41:10 <Bike> recursion jokes rather
04:41:14 <BeingUntoDeath> ...
04:41:26 <Bike> recursion itself is still cool
04:41:30 <kmc> i heard you like recursion so we put recursion in your hugalagahlalhaghahghagalhahglhal
04:42:10 * Sgeo fixes Bike
04:42:11 <Bike> it's all broad though. like whoa, put a thing in a thing?? i learned the concept early enough that it's hard for me to understand people not getting it, sadly
04:42:24 <kmc> i don't even own a recursion
04:42:28 <Sgeo> Bike: but Y?
04:42:33 <BeingUntoDeath> that's all you recursion is?
04:42:53 <BeingUntoDeath> i guess i'm talking about neural networks then?
04:42:56 <oklopol> what
04:42:59 <BeingUntoDeath> these use recursion, yes?
04:43:08 * kmc -> afk
04:43:08 <BeingUntoDeath> -you, sorry.
04:43:10 <Bike> Sgeo: what about y
04:43:24 <oklopol> Bike: he fixed you
04:43:35 <Bike> BeingUntoDeath: recursiveness in neural networks usually means a network with cycles, which is pretty distinct from the usual CS concept, but related
04:43:49 <Bike> or maybe i'm thinking 'recurrent' god i feel so stupid right now
04:43:55 <Sgeo> I think BeingUntoDeath got the wrong idea about what recursion is
04:44:32 <BeingUntoDeath> okay, thank you bike.
04:44:32 <Sgeo> As though he tried to learn it from this conversation, I mean
04:44:37 <Bike> 'recursive' has like thirty billion meanings anyway
04:44:41 <BeingUntoDeath> lol.
04:45:03 <oklopol> BeingUntoDeath: recursive just means inductive
04:45:10 <oklopol> nothing more to it
04:45:12 <Bike> oh, and if you're interested in neural networks. the artificial ones are /nothing like real ones at all/. maybe you already know that but jesus it's annoying when people don't
04:45:15 <oklopol> ;DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
04:45:32 <BeingUntoDeath> right, i know that. :)
04:45:43 <BeingUntoDeath> thank you oklopol
04:47:06 <Bike> it's like, you have a lemma, man, and then the lemma like... proves itself with a different n.... maaann........
04:47:31 <Bike> ok i'm going to stop acting stupid now. sorry about that. just gonna be legit stupid now.
04:48:00 <oklopol> BeingUntoDeath: inductive in the sense that you have that the first and second fibonacci numbers are 1 and 1 and fib(n) = fib(n-2) + fib(n-1)
04:48:54 <ion> No, the first and second Fibonacci numbers are −55 and 34.
04:49:10 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/20qojw/jdk_8_is_released/
04:49:25 <Bike> convenient that these things are just a shift away
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04:51:24 <oklopol> recursion of course usually implies that the objects we are talking about are computer objects (and not, say, real numbers; then again, most of the interesting well-ordered things readily turn into computer objects, except maybe the well-orders themselves)
04:52:59 <Sgeo> Java 9 will have TCO????!?!?!?
04:53:00 <Sgeo> :D
04:53:50 <oklopol> Bike: maybe it's okay for me to know because i don't know anything about either of the two; what sort of differences are there between neural networks and... neural networks?
04:54:00 <oklopol> *for me not to know
04:55:31 <Bike> well, basically, when artificial neural networks (the computer ones) were getting off the ground, it was the forties, fifties. von neumann hisself wrote about them. as you might expect the biological research was, well, we've advanced a lot in seventy years.
04:55:56 <Sgeo> "John Conway's Game of Life is some kind of Artificial Life simulation. It's written in Java."
04:56:04 <Bike> artificial neurons treat individual neurons as discrete input output functions, usually a convenient function (like a sigmoid curve) over a weighted sum of their inputs
04:56:06 <Sgeo> I... what
04:56:15 <oklopol> Sgeo: :DSA
04:56:19 <Bike> computer people kind of ran with that for seventy years
04:56:21 <Bike> Sgeo: lol
04:56:44 <Sgeo> Ok, I think the author of the page was trolling Google
04:56:46 <Bike> meanwhile biologists found out it didn't work pretty fast. huxley model from squid neurons is like, a fourth degree PDE or some shit, and that's for one neuron
04:56:55 <Sgeo> http://www.bitstorm.org/gameoflife/
04:56:56 <Bike> also it's shitty
04:57:13 <Sgeo> Seems competent enough. View source.
04:57:14 <oklopol> i see
04:57:15 <Bike> Sgeo: i do a double take every time i see an applet.
04:57:52 <Bike> basically, biological neurons are complex cell assemblies that work as modulated analog signal processors and require a lot of electrophysics to understand at all. artificial neurons are simpler because why would computer people care.
04:58:21 <Bike> i mean obviously ANNs are probably useful for something. optimization i guess? beats me
04:59:03 <Bike> this gets you weird situations like a neuroscientist trying to assign parameters for an organism situation, and using global optimization techniques to do so. possibly you could use an ANN for this. would be funny
04:59:11 <Sgeo> Ugh, ended up trying to watch videos of the board game
04:59:17 <Sgeo> There's some crappy "new" version
04:59:21 <Bike> game of life the board game?
04:59:42 <Sgeo> Hasbro's
04:59:59 <Bike> The thing with the cars?
05:00:04 <Sgeo> yes
05:00:30 <Sgeo> As far as I know, there are only two game of lifes
05:00:41 <Sgeo> And one is not a board game, usually
05:00:41 <oklopol> Bike: to me it still sounds like in theory they might be deliberately studying a simplification of the model in order to get at least something out of it
05:01:09 <Bike> oklopol: you mean computer people? yeah, but what they're getting out of it just isn't going to be that biologically relevant. it's going to be more like advances in ML.
05:01:57 <oklopol> but what if they solve the whole model, then add some components etc and get closer and closer to biologically relevant? i mean i don't think that's what's going on, but i can imagine a world where that's the case :P
05:02:22 <oklopol> (i think it's very playsible that they just ran with it)
05:02:25 <oklopol> *plausible
05:03:35 <Bike> i don't think they're really trying... even if they were it's quite a trip from http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/2/a/02a0d787371e595719f83f8431ee898a.png to http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/e/c/5ec607907b2588dc038c1ef0168475dc.png
05:04:01 <Bike> quite an /interesting/ trip i imagine, though
05:04:20 <oklopol> oo the first one is how gibbs measures are born
05:04:42 <Bike> cool.
05:04:56 <Bike> fuck yes, same gibbs.
05:05:51 <oklopol> like, if x is some type of energy or something, you want to minimize energy and then as energy increases, that configuration gets exponentially less likely. thus you weigh each state by e^(-x) where x is the energy. or something.
05:06:03 <Bike> the latter one is the soliton model, which is kind of not mainstream but does have the advantage of explaining how general anesthetics work (we have no idea, which rules)
05:06:08 <oklopol> (the sum on the bottom is because you want them to sum to 1.)
05:06:49 <oklopol> yeah i have no idea what the second one is :P
05:07:09 <Bike> i don't know how it works at all woooooo
05:07:22 <oklopol> :P
05:08:15 <Bike> physics is hard.
05:08:55 <oklopol> i was contemplating going on a quantum physics course this spring
05:08:59 <oklopol> but i didn't :(
05:09:33 <Bike> i flunked a kinematics course once, so imo doomed
05:10:03 <oklopol> F = ma
05:10:20 <Bike> but like, what if there's lots of ms, man
05:10:33 <oklopol> if there's a lot of as you sum them
05:10:55 <oklopol> thus by induction you also sum the ms
05:11:22 <Bike> damnn
05:13:17 <oklopol> also i tried to take physics 1 a few years ago but i didn't have time for it :(((((
05:14:12 <Bike> switch majors. i gotta take courses in half the departments. (switching majors is totally a thing you can do as a whateveryouare)
05:14:50 <newsham> F = m * dv/dt = m * d^2t/dt^2. f*dt^2 = d^2 t boing boing boing
05:15:08 <newsham> the problem with switching majors to physics is all the momentum
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05:15:36 <Bike> just make a turing machine out of the 5-body problem and they'll clearly accept you
05:15:42 <oklopol> i have done all my courses so i'm not sure switching majors would be of much help
05:16:03 <oklopol> actually the last 8 or so courses i've taken i didn't go to the exam because i didn't want to drop my average
05:16:08 <newsham> thats the best time to switch. that way you dont have to leave school!
05:16:24 <Bike> don't stop til lyyou got like forty master'ss
05:16:40 <Sgeo> I can't blame inflation for this feeling that $100 was a lot in 2006 but isn't very much now, can I?
05:16:59 <oklopol> a friend of mine is working on something like 3 degrees atm
05:17:01 <oklopol> i'm so jelly
05:17:04 <newsham> you can, depending on what you're buying.
05:17:16 <newsham> you could have bought more than 2x as many bigmacs in 2006 with $100
05:17:20 <Bike> wat do you even do with three degrees
05:17:36 <oklopol> i think he just wants to be an unemployed millionnaire
05:17:47 <oklopol> *millionaire
05:17:50 <Bike> where's the millionaire bit come from
05:18:04 <Bike> sgeo: apparently 100 2006 dollars would be worth like $117 now. totes lotsa ca$h
05:18:09 <newsham> the application process for unemployed millionaire is really selective
05:18:20 <newsham> bike: now do energy and food inflation
05:18:27 <oklopol> newsham: that's why you wanna have 3 degrees.
05:18:33 <Bike> who do i look like the dhs
05:18:42 <newsham> BLS?
05:19:01 <Bike> don't you say that about my mother
05:19:28 <Bike> oh, actually this thing i got the numbers from uses the CPI, so HA already incorporated them.
05:20:23 <newsham> > 237 / 198
05:20:23 <idris-ircslave> 1.196969696969697 : Float
05:20:25 <lambdabot> 1.196969696969697
05:20:34 <newsham> thats food+beverages 2006-2012
05:20:57 <newsham> > 239 / 185
05:20:57 <idris-ircslave> 1.2918918918918918 : Float
05:20:58 <lambdabot> 1.2918918918918918
05:21:00 <newsham> thats energy
05:21:04 <newsham> http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid1401.pdf
05:21:10 <Bike> dude quit disputing the internet
05:21:25 <oklopol> how has the apples to oranges cost ratio evolved during the last century?
05:21:51 <newsham> can you be more specific? pacific rose? gala? granny smith?
05:21:55 <newsham> are we including tangerines?
05:22:07 <oklopol> we are _not_ including tangerines
05:22:23 <Bike> well here's a graph, featuring several line segments, as well as alphanumeric characters http://www.oceconomy.org/wibmeasures/n3-1.jpg
05:22:23 <oklopol> but otherwise, please integrate over apples with respect to the uniform distribution
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05:22:26 <Bike> hope this helps
05:22:49 <Bike> as you can see, the line segments look sort of like a hill, but with a little thingie on the right
05:23:09 <newsham> the great thing about BLS statistics is they think the food you bought in 2014 is just as good as the food you bought in 1950.
05:23:23 <Bike> i'd like to point out that, as a bonus, several non-alphanumeric characters are included
05:24:10 <oklopol> yes that is really fancy
05:24:13 <newsham> even though you used to get beef from disease free, grass feed beef and now you get animal byproducts that were soaked in amonia in an attempt to make unedible meats somewhat disease free
05:24:29 <oklopol> i should review a boring article now
05:24:43 <newsham> wouldnt you rather sit on a boring irc channel instead?
05:24:47 <oklopol> yes
05:25:11 <Bike> if it's any consolation i have to read a boring article.
05:25:13 <BeingUntoDeath> hey... can i ask you guys really noob questions about programming?
05:25:18 <Bike> go for it
05:25:23 <BeingUntoDeath> usually other programming channels aren't privy to noob-ass questions.
05:25:30 <newsham> noob questions are fun
05:25:35 <BeingUntoDeath> i'm programming in ruby. who knows ruby?
05:25:37 <Bike> depends on the channel (but yeah programmers are assholes, sorry about that)
05:25:47 <BeingUntoDeath> :) :)
05:25:52 <oklopol> btw the brainfuck article i reviewed was accepted, although only as a presentation, not in proceedings
05:26:03 <Bike> i know /of/ ruby
05:26:11 <Bike> maybe i can guess the semantics enough to answer basic questions
05:26:18 <newsham> btw, on the topic of esoteric fun with computer programs, have you guys heard of this POC||GTFO publication?
05:26:27 <Bike> I don't know what that is.
05:26:36 <newsham> its an e-magazine, current issue is in pdf but can also be interpretted as some picture format and something else...
05:27:19 <BeingUntoDeath> is a line where i define a var considered a block? or can blocks just go inside of defined variables(objects?) as methods?
05:27:30 <newsham> its a zip file too
05:27:35 <BeingUntoDeath> in other words, i'm wondering what a block is.
05:27:47 <newsham> and a runnable image (ie. for qemu)
05:27:58 <newsham> http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/1tw2ht/poc_gtfo_issue_0x02pdf/
05:28:00 <Bike> I think a block is more like a function?
05:28:19 <Bike> "Ruby blocks are syntax literals for Proc objects" ok yeah
05:28:40 <newsham> arent ruby blocks the body of lambda-expressions (non-pure)?
05:28:45 <BeingUntoDeath> because i converted my test-program the other day into objects and made it OO, but i now realize all the def/end's with do/end's in them could be blocks instead?
05:28:49 <newsham> <- not a ruby person, but thats the impression i had
05:29:00 <Bike> newsham: that's what i'm getting out of this
05:29:24 <BeingUntoDeath> ............right. ... :)
05:29:46 <BeingUntoDeath> no idea what any of that means, thank you though.
05:29:53 <newsham> i dont know if the line where you define a var is a block or not.. not a ruby person :(
05:30:33 <Bike> i think to be a block you need the literal {}.
05:30:58 <Bike> but yeah, that question was 2ruby4me, sorry.
05:32:47 <newsham> beinguntodeath: guess we're the n00bs here :)
05:32:54 <BeingUntoDeath> i'm getting the idea from codeacademy that a "code" block is what goes in between do and end in a method?
05:33:02 <BeingUntoDeath> whether it's literal {} or not.
05:33:13 <BeingUntoDeath> being between {}'s means being literal?
05:34:15 <Sgeo> The word 'block' may be a bit overloaded
05:34:27 <Bike> ah, yes, i think you can use do...end for procedures too
05:34:33 <Sgeo> There's the Ruby usage, and there's the rest of the world usage of 'code block' which I can imagine slipping in
05:34:51 <BeingUntoDeath> procedure ?= method
05:34:52 <Bike> and what if we want to talk about rectangular prisms??
05:35:05 <Bike> BeingUntoDeath: prooooooobably the same in a ruby context but don't quote me
05:35:32 <Bike> you know. some code you want to do several times. probably with parameters. and in ruby, attached to an object.
05:35:51 <BeingUntoDeath> is procedure synonymous with method in CS?
05:35:53 <Bike> well, i guess methods are procedures but not the other way around maybe.
05:36:05 <Bike> nothing is synonymous with anything in CS, stop listening to me before i corrupt you
05:36:12 <BeingUntoDeath> right. figured.
05:36:14 <BeingUntoDeath> lol. :D
05:36:17 <Bike> usually 'method' implies being attached to an object
05:36:21 <Sgeo> People use those words for all sorts of things, but I think commonly (I may be wrong) methods are attached to objects and procedures aren't
05:36:42 <BeingUntoDeath> okay.
05:36:56 <newsham> methods get an implicit reference to the object they were attached to. procedures are pretty similar but not every procedure comes with a ref to an object
05:39:39 <BeingUntoDeath> so when you "pass a block" to something... how do you refer to a particular block? that makes it sound like a variable. it's just nested in another method or comes in sequence in the code?
05:39:57 <Bike> probably you pass it as a variable and use some call syntax.
05:40:12 <Bike> like, in C, you can get passed a function pointer as a variable "foo", and then jus call it with foo() like usual.
05:40:25 <BeingUntoDeath> and what is the something to which blocks are passed? Objects? this whole "everything is an object" in ruby may be starting to make some things fuzzy for me, being a new coder.
05:40:32 <newsham> BUD: are you familiar with passing functions around to other functions?
05:40:50 <newsham> ruby's blocks are sort of like functions, they just dont come with names
05:40:55 <Bike> BeingUntoDeath: other procedures/methods (code)
05:40:59 <BeingUntoDeath> the functioned that is passed to is just named inside the other function?
05:41:19 <newsham> all the incoming function arguments are bound to names.
05:41:20 <Sgeo> Bike: Ruby blocks can be passed to a method in such a way that they aren't a real argument but instead you call yield to call it
05:41:31 <Sgeo> iirc
05:41:32 <Bike> Sgeo: hoping that's irrelevant.
05:41:55 <Sgeo> It's the more common way to do things that want a single callback etc.
05:43:01 <newsham> as a simple example in another language which might just totally confuse you, "map" takes a function as an argument, and "runs" it on each element in a list. [1,2,3] is a list, and (\x -> x * 10) is an anonymous function (like a ruby block):
05:43:11 <newsham> > map (\x -> x * 1) [1,2,3]
05:43:11 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Effects.Env.::, Data.HVect.::, Prelude.List.::, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.::, Prelude.Stream.::, Prelude.Vect.::
05:43:12 <lambdabot> [1,2,3]
05:43:24 <newsham> > map (\x -> x * 10) [1,2,3]
05:43:25 <idris-ircslave> Can't disambiguate name: Effects.Env.::, Data.HVect.::, Prelude.List.::, Data.Vect.Quantifiers.::, Prelude.Stream.::, Prelude.Vect.::
05:43:25 <lambdabot> [10,20,30]
05:44:00 <newsham> map has two arguments, the function and the list. these both get names when you're writing the definition of map
05:44:04 <newsham> ?src map
05:44:04 <lambdabot> map _ [] = []
05:44:04 <lambdabot> map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs
05:44:16 <BeingUntoDeath> ruby has map!!
05:44:40 <Bike> yeah, lots of languages do. it dates from the 1950s or 1370s or whatever
05:44:45 <BeingUntoDeath> so that's where you'd just add values or keys?
05:44:45 <newsham> so when you call map you can pass in a ruby block and a list
05:44:46 <Bike> very useful function
05:44:59 <Bike> BeingUntoDeath: uh, maybe you're thinking of the wrong kind of map.
05:44:59 <BeingUntoDeath> with .map?
05:45:05 <Sgeo> Map has two different meanings
05:45:08 <Sgeo> (Or more)
05:45:11 <BeingUntoDeath> lol.
05:45:16 <Sgeo> You stumbled onto a different meaning
05:45:22 <Bike> but good news... they're also related
05:45:25 <Bike> everything is related.
05:45:32 <BeingUntoDeath> :O :O news to me.
05:45:34 <Bike> we are all together
05:45:40 <newsham> we're well on track to give you an esoteric answer
05:45:48 <Bike> so, take newsham's thing, that multiplies by ten
05:45:51 <Sgeo> My math teacher once accidentally made some gesture that was swearing at me when telling me that everything's related
05:45:59 <Bike> the "keys" are [1,2,3] and the "values" are [10,20,30], see.
05:46:29 <newsham> is there a bot here that does ruby?
05:47:03 <BeingUntoDeath> newsham, your example helps conceptually, thank you.
05:47:15 <BeingUntoDeath> even though it's not in ruby-eeze at all.
05:47:16 <newsham> in ruby: [1, 2, 3].map { |n| n * 10 }
05:47:25 * Sgeo vaguely wonders if Self works on Cygwin
05:47:27 <Bike> !interp ruby
05:47:27 <BeingUntoDeath> aha!!
05:47:31 <Bike> no? oh well.
05:47:39 <BeingUntoDeath> okay.
05:47:41 <BeingUntoDeath> that's ruby...
05:47:49 <BeingUntoDeath> what is the |n| in that statement?
05:47:53 <Bike> an argument.
05:47:58 <Bike> er, a parameter.
05:48:00 <BeingUntoDeath> !!!
05:48:04 <newsham> that says that |n| receives an incoming argument in that block
05:48:11 <BeingUntoDeath> o.o
05:48:20 <newsham> map calls that block three times, once with n set to 1, once n=2, once n=3
05:48:41 <BeingUntoDeath> so n is just a variable? could be anything?
05:48:53 <newsham> its what the caller provided as an argument
05:49:07 <BeingUntoDeath> so... that just makes a list n = [1,2,3]?
05:49:11 <BeingUntoDeath> er...
05:49:25 <BeingUntoDeath> 10.times.each
05:49:27 <BeingUntoDeath> lol.
05:49:27 <Bike> no, n is an element. that's what map does.
05:49:32 <newsham> map builds up a list of [f(1), f(2), f(3)] where f is the block
05:49:35 <Sgeo> n is one, the first time that { |n| n * 10 } is called. The second time, it's 2
05:49:40 <Sgeo> the third time, it's 3
05:49:49 <BeingUntoDeath> so n is an array?
05:49:54 <Bike> i'm just going to stop talking, enough people are doing so as is. gotta concentrate anyway
05:50:03 <BeingUntoDeath> thank you for everything bike.
05:50:16 <Sgeo> In this case, all three times, it will be just a number.
05:50:24 <Sgeo> [1, 2, 3] is the array
05:50:25 <newsham> when map calls f(2), n is set to 2 and the block returns 2*10 = 20
05:50:26 <BeingUntoDeath> right!
05:50:42 <BeingUntoDeath> ohhhh.
05:51:42 <Sgeo> Huh. Self has object literals.
05:51:59 <BeingUntoDeath> in ruby?
05:52:07 <BeingUntoDeath> i'm not to understanding .self yet.
05:52:07 <Sgeo> BeingUntoDeath: I'm talking about an entirely different language
05:52:10 <Sgeo> So ignore my ramblings
05:52:32 <BeingUntoDeath> alright. thanks for your help.
05:53:08 <newsham> note: you can also just define a procedure in ruby called f taking an argument n which returns n*10
05:53:26 <newsham> passing in that procedure would give the same results as passign in the block { |n| n * 10 }
05:54:03 <Bike> http://tigergenome.org/ i love the future
05:54:07 <newsham> if i knew ruby syntax better icould even show you what that would look like ! ;-)
05:55:44 <Jafet> Bike: the future is people splicing it into human embryos
05:56:15 <Bike> congratulations your child has white fur and also strabismus
06:03:31 <Sgeo> "and, more generally, that a slot initializer may not refer to any textually enclosing object literal."
06:03:34 <Sgeo> This makes me a bit sad
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06:19:50 <Sgeo> ooh
06:19:57 <Sgeo> 3 + 4 * 7 is illegal in Self
06:20:43 <Sgeo> ooh
06:20:50 <newsham> self being the original OO language?
06:20:51 <Sgeo> 5 min: 4 max: 7
06:21:07 <Sgeo> That's a message to 4 and a message to 5
06:21:16 <Sgeo> In Smalltalk it would be just a message to 5
06:21:25 <Sgeo> 5 min: 4 Max: 7 would be just the one message to 5
06:21:28 <Sgeo> (in Self)
06:21:50 <Sgeo> newsham: I think that's more Smalltalk, although I think others came before it
06:21:54 <Sgeo> Self is prototypical OO
06:22:04 <Sgeo> prototypal
06:22:06 <Sgeo> whatever
06:22:57 <Sgeo> "The association order and capitalization requirements are intended to reduce the number of parentheses necessary in Self code."
06:23:10 <Sgeo> Oh god I can imagine incompetent programmers having large hard to read lines that abuse that
06:23:32 <newsham> oh, simula is what i was thinking of
06:23:55 <^v> i am making a table for filling in malbolge memory
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06:24:03 <^v> so you dont have to use crz
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06:28:32 * Sgeo wonders if the Self lobby can be hidden/overrridden to serve as a sandboxing mechanism
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06:31:02 <Sgeo> "behavior that allows an object to behave like a block that evaluates to that object (this permits a non-block object to be passed to a method that expects a block)"
06:31:03 <Sgeo> eww
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06:33:28 <BeingUntoDeath> so you guys program in these crazy languages for fun?
06:34:13 <Bike> yeah. don't use as to cosign ur leases
06:34:36 <newsham> i'm just waiting for a scout to discover me and pay me the big bucks to program in crazy languages
06:34:47 <BeingUntoDeath> sweet man. lol.
06:35:42 <Bike> at my day job i use matlab. so like, rock and a hard place here, yeah?
06:35:59 <newsham> surely you can do something ridiculous with matlab
06:36:10 <Bike> you don't even know.
06:36:18 <Sgeo> ooh, I like exitValue
06:36:27 <newsham> http://www.thenewsh.com/~chat/j/XPrelude.java
06:37:05 <Sgeo> (I think I just like anything that makes return-like statements without being in a method more sensible. Although I think people generally hate early returns, so...)
06:38:06 <Sgeo> "traits number defines behavior common to all numbers, such as successor, succ"
06:38:11 * Sgeo cries a bit inside
06:38:45 <Bike> what did you do when you watched like, schindler's list? die? combust?
06:38:47 <newsham> making debrujin succ less
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07:20:36 <fizzie> Ooh, a dodecagon-shaped coin. (Though I'm not entirely sure why a Finnish newspaper bothers to put a UK coin redesign proposal on its front web-page.)
07:23:42 <ais523> err, seriously? all UK coins have an odd number of sides, because they have constant diameter (to be easier for vending machines to check)
07:24:13 <ais523> also, the UK mint makes coins and banknotes for a huge number of countries, I think just because they got good at it
07:24:24 <fizzie> http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26632863 is what they linked to.
07:29:52 <ais523> hmm, in the Hacker News comments about this blog post of mine, someone mentioned removing stack frames using a negative argument to alloca
07:30:13 <ais523> I guess it's hard to stop people finding ways to implement INTERCAL functionality in C
07:32:41 <fizzie> Also, this article about the popularity of different first names says that (paraphrasing) "the popularity of most names over time follows a Gauss curve, with peaks occurring usually every 100 years", which makes no sense, because there's only one peak.
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09:48:26 <Jafet> Hm, the ctrl key is stuck down.
09:50:57 <Jafet> I'm surprised that I can write this.
09:52:19 <Jafet> Heh, I fixed it by starting the on-screen keyboard program and holding down its ctrl key.
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10:06:54 <ais523> that… what?
10:07:03 <ais523> is it stuck as in physically stuck down?#
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10:07:13 <ais523> or just that it registers as being constantly pressed?
10:07:23 <ais523> you can often fix the latter problem just by pressing both Ctrl keys on the keyboard a few times
10:16:53 <fizzie> In this USB day and age, I've fixed an entirely confused keyboard once or twice by dis- and reconnecting it.
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10:19:01 <fizzie> Incidentally, I wonder if there's something in MPX (multi-pointer X) that'd make it possible "in general" for you to have, in addition to independent mouse pointers, also several independent keyboards with their own input foci.
10:22:55 <ais523> I can see that massively confusing window managers
10:26:59 <fizzie> "MPWM is a proof-of-concept, not a real window manager. It's lacking most features that you'd expect from a window manager so don't use it in production. Or on your desktop. Or really anywhere."
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11:40:44 <ion> Most Helpful Reply http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_xp-performance/error-message-revocation-information-for-the/1a6559d4-f45a-442a-b1c4-6844f9cd447b
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14:28:09 <Taneb> It amuses me tremendously that many people have an app on their phones that send messages that will self-destruct in 5 seconds
14:28:13 <Taneb> And then use it for selfies
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16:07:27 <Bike> nooooo
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16:08:41 <oerjan> but i have too many tabs open already :(
16:08:56 <oerjan> and too little time. shaving ->
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16:40:38 <kmc> Taneb: selfies and dick pics (or are those a kind of selfie?)
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16:42:01 <Taneb> I'd say those are another kind of selfie
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16:47:14 <kmc> snapchat is a rare example of a product with DRM-like features that are actively desired by the user
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16:53:02 <^v> "There are 5,232 registered users, but most of them are spambots." xD
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16:56:34 <oerjan> it says 5,235 now hth
16:57:09 <oerjan> also no one registered in between.
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16:58:36 <^v> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%99%A6
16:58:40 <^v> can someone explain this?
17:00:27 <Bike> ∟○∟
17:01:25 <Bike> "wat" -- elliott
17:01:30 <Bike> ____
17:02:28 <elliott_> ♦/~ and ♦ should be swapped or something
17:02:34 <elliott_> it's a dumb page to have at the top level
17:02:43 <elliott_> and not categorised and stuff
17:03:32 <Jafet> Why is ♦ not a character of ♦
17:03:58 <Taneb> Few languages have their name as one of their instructions
17:05:01 <oerjan> hm there has to be one
17:05:43 <Jafet> There is HQ9+
17:05:44 <oerjan> well, Esme counts, CLEARLY
17:06:00 <oerjan> that's not _one_ of its instructions, Jafet
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17:38:31 <^v> anyone make hello world in clusterfuck (utilizing the added chars ofc)
17:53:34 <fizzie> @tell oerjan Also Ook!
17:53:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:54:13 <fizzie> @tell oerjan At least more or less, if not quite.
17:54:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:56:10 <myname> preffy useless, just change <> in any brainfuck version to ^v
17:56:14 <myname> *preffy
17:56:22 <^v> :P
17:57:23 <FireFly> kmc: what kind of DRM-like features?
17:58:21 <myname> "Esme is an esoteric programming language[citation needed]"
17:58:27 <myname> i already like it
17:58:33 <Bike> dick pic suppression
18:15:04 <kmc> FireFly: deleting photos from the receiver's device after n seconds
18:21:29 <FireFly> heh.
18:23:27 <maurer> kmc: I feel like they're trying to sort of emulate the notion of a night out, or sitting around chatting with friends.
18:23:38 <maurer> kmc: People would get super mad if you had a recording device running at all times.
18:23:49 <maurer> (not that I use any of these services, just speculation)
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18:29:00 <kmc> yeah
18:39:04 <^v> agony is neat
18:40:13 <maurer> "most of the time backwards compatible with Brainfuck" !
18:42:56 <quintopia> SELECT. has its name as an instruction
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18:45:52 <kmc> pop eax; cmp byte ptr [esi], dh
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18:53:07 <olsner> did someone push something on the stack earlier, or did you just underflow the stack?
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18:53:51 <kmc> it's relevant to <Taneb> Few languages have their name as one of their instructions
18:57:17 <quintopia> c++ sort of does? at the very least, its name contains one of its instructions...
18:59:59 <int-e> which it stole from C ;-)
19:01:28 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/b0551c10cef630285d16b973731d77f0/tumblr_n2gltz0yJc1rugltbo1_1280.png bitcoin
19:04:50 <kmc> welp
19:05:13 <maurer> Shark Jumped
19:06:28 <int-e> I can see the connection: Both are a matter of belief.
19:07:10 <maurer> int-e: By that logic, you could say jesus loves nearly any currency
19:08:04 <Bike> "what is caesar's is caesar's. everything else? mine"
19:08:26 <int-e> maurer: ask the catholic church, they will agree.
19:10:08 <int-e> *googles* "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."
19:11:05 <olsner> AMD64\n (in long mode) is xor al,0xa with four nonsense prefixes
19:17:02 <int-e> ... useful.
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19:55:39 <fizzie> "Z80" in z80 is "ld e, d; jr c, $+50".
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20:22:29 <Bike> https://twitter.com/Xythar/status/445426997313806336/photo/1/large the anime community attempts security
20:29:20 <newsham> i was wondering why only 1 in 4billion of adamants files checked out
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21:11:03 <^v> Bike, ._. stupeid
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22:10:41 <^v> i made an agony inturpreter http://esolangs.org/wiki/Agony and the hello world example only prints "Hello"
22:11:00 <^v> the brainfuck one works fine though
22:12:32 <^v> ah, its because only hello was encoded into it
22:12:45 <^v> anyone mind if i change it?
22:17:03 <^v> wait
22:17:04 <^v> wat
22:17:22 <^v> decoded it and its 0A 12 64 6C 72 6F 57 20 6F 6C 6C 65 48
22:17:31 <^v> :< i must be doing something wrong
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22:21:50 <^v> sweet it works now
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22:31:22 <boily> hellørjan.
22:38:08 <^v> :D oerjan <3
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22:44:36 <oerjan> heily^v
22:45:02 <oerjan> @messages-loot
22:45:02 <lambdabot> fizzie said 4h 51m 28s ago: Also Ook!
22:45:02 <lambdabot> fizzie said 4h 50m 49s ago: At least more or less, if not quite.
22:47:29 <Taneb> I think... that was my question?
22:49:34 <FireFly> Bike: hahaha
22:53:04 <oerjan> am i evil for even _considering_ that we could put up Esme as featured April 1 language
22:53:16 <oerjan> (yes, obviously)
22:53:41 <oerjan> if not, Ook! could be a good alternative.
22:53:56 <oerjan> (i don't think any of them are official candidates, or are they?
22:53:58 <oerjan> )
22:54:09 <boily> what is fungot's choice?
22:54:09 <fungot> boily: i am just as confused. you, in that line, that i have gone totally wanting, and then you can choose fnord, but don't step on cursed items. his most distinctive features are. this explanation assumes that if the teen is getting sexually excited. right. i'm not doing anything to decrease the number of
22:54:37 <boily> I choose fnord! (without stepping on cursed items, of course.)
22:55:02 <oerjan> we don't actually have a language named Fnord yet
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22:57:01 <boily> but, but...
22:57:28 <oerjan> it's possible to correct that, i believe.
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23:04:01 <ion> Oculus Rift Development Kit 2 http://youtu.be/OlXrjTh7vHc
23:06:19 <stopreadingthis_> What do you guys think about Benio http://benkreger.com/Benio.txt
23:08:56 <Bike> i want one that's pinku (that's japanese for pink)
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23:15:51 <^v> <3 agony
23:15:51 <^v> <ping> .encagony :3 this converts text into agony cod
23:15:52 <^v> <^v> ping, <[.<]$$$,$[~<~*~>{$+.~]~*~+~}{$~*+<~]~.{$+<+-~@+<{$+>+<+{~@+~~]~*~>{$+>~.~-+<{$>>>,
23:16:10 <^v> so, what should i code next
23:16:17 <kmc> what's all this then
23:16:23 <oerjan> eodermdrome hth
23:16:53 <^v> i added agony to my bot
23:17:21 <kmc> are there any esolangs where SAT solvers are the only viable implementation strategy?
23:17:26 <kmc> eodermdrome might be one
23:17:50 <kmc> there are some non-eso langs where the typechecker uses a SAT/SMT solver
23:29:16 <boily> dammit. I never should have opened that page → http://gabrielecirulli.github.io/2048/
23:34:54 <oerjan> boily: well guess _why_ i didn't have time to read the logs earlier today
23:41:55 <kmc> http://ov3y.github.io/2048-AI/ http://doge2048.com/ http://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~b01902112/9007199254740992/ http://hczhcz.github.io/Flappy-2048/
23:42:14 <Taneb> I am sleepy
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23:51:25 <boily> kmc: you are a vile, very vile person.
23:51:31 <boily> Taneb: you are a sleepy person.
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23:51:43 <Taneb> Yes
23:53:09 <Taneb> I saw kmc's message about 2048 and my first thought was "that's isomorphic to multiplication"
23:53:33 <kmc> ?
23:55:24 <Taneb> I don't know either
23:58:10 <^v> hey, where can i get a useful inturpreter
23:58:27 <elliott_> /usr/bin/perl
23:59:00 * boily tries out the doge-mille-quarante-huit version. ow.
23:59:03 <^v> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Useful!
23:59:49 <kmc> boily: the background color really makes it
23:59:58 <boily> it doesn't even need javascript!
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