00:04:00 Sgeo: but yeah, you're right. this is basically a lengthy defense of induction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction 00:06:26 hi Bike 00:06:43 hachaf 00:14:18 Why do you like psychologism? 00:16:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:16:11 makes sense 2 me 00:28:19 -!- tromp has joined. 00:38:50 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:39:23 -!- tromp has joined. 00:41:52 * Sgeo ponders a dependently-typed CL-style format 00:42:04 Certainly seems more fun than just boring old printf 00:43:37 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:43:50 Sgeo: Can you describe it? 00:44:07 CL-style format, or what it would mean for it to be typed? 00:44:18 Their combination. 00:45:43 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:46:09 A more-flexible printf-like thing (that includes things like loops) that can be type-checked to be sure all arguments are the right type 00:46:54 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:49:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:49:52 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 01:13:53 Sgeo, i feel like combining loops and dependent types is something of a conceptual flinch 01:14:19 I don't know sufficiently much about dependent types to say 01:14:45 well just because loops are kind of 'imperative' and dependent typing is 'declarative' 01:15:05 Do folds count as looping? 01:15:13 (i have put quotes around these words because otherwise kmc would probably complain) 01:15:22 can I complain instead :/ 01:15:41 no 01:15:57 i shall complain: use matched quote punctuation. this '' "" stuff is on the level of the armenian genocide 01:17:12 ah so it didn't actually happen (i am a turkish dickhead now it seems) 01:17:23 o:!!! 01:18:45 meanwhile in /r/bitcoin: someone obtains dubious access to mt. gox's database, discovers that mt. gox database claims they still have all that money they lost! :o 01:19:13 -!- tromp has joined. 01:19:28 mods delete this because it is unethical and stupid. redditors valiantly jump to battle the conspiracy to suppress evidence of gox's daylight robbery 01:20:51 comparisons are made to snowden 01:22:11 "unethical" 01:23:29 I can enjoy learning about the math behind Bitcoin without getting involved in controversy like this, I assume 01:23:43 no 01:23:56 there is only controversy 01:24:40 sadly, reddit's popularity has been it's bane, and made it a censor-fest 01:25:33 did you just describe reddit as a censor-fest with a straight face :D 01:25:34 No longer possible to buy physical Bitcoins from Casascius :( 01:25:39 it's been a downhill spiral ever since the jailbait scandal 01:25:54 omg 01:26:27 i take it you disagree? 01:26:28 They're not even selling the empty physical bitcoins, which I actually wanted :( 01:26:46 Except some promo ones which are expensive 01:27:29 it's just impressive to meet a real-life caricature 01:27:58 Oh http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/13/5207256/casascius-maker-of-shiny-physical-bitcoins-shut-down-by-treasury :( 01:31:07 -!- w00tles has joined. 01:44:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:46:12 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:47:17 -!- not^v has changed nick to ^v. 01:47:46 -!- ^v has changed nick to not^v. 01:48:19 -!- not^v has changed nick to ^v. 01:55:46 * Bike checks. r/beatingtrannies still up. yep 02:03:55 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:06:18 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:11:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:12:02 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:14:17 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:23:15 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 02:31:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:35:08 -!- w00tles has joined. 02:48:49 -!- conehead has joined. 02:54:00 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 02:56:10 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:06:12 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 03:22:58 -!- DTSCode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:32:53 -!- tromp has joined. 03:39:38 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:43:52 -!- ^v has joined. 03:52:20 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:52:23 -!- Froox has joined. 04:12:55 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:13:16 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 04:13:22 -!- ^v has joined. 04:17:14 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:29:30 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:30:04 -!- tromp has joined. 04:31:03 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:31:19 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:34:18 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:45:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:56:09 kmc: interesting: http://altcoins.com/curecoin.html 04:57:38 not clear how they adjust difficulty 05:00:46 http://www.reddit.com/r/primecoin/comments/1rl107/anyone_know_anything_about_curecoin_next_altrucoin/ 05:01:10 At 1AM, Quassel just told me the day changed 05:01:13 * Sgeo mindboggles 05:04:06 If primes could save lives, I would totally play with primecoin 05:04:44 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 05:04:50 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:06:47 lol DST bugs 05:10:58 -!- ^v has joined. 05:27:21 Wonder if there are still Y2k bugs in the wild 05:36:06 I think some old programs may have Y2K bugs 05:38:47 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 05:41:13 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:56:04 WordPerfect does. 05:56:32 As well as one of the text editors used in the Synchronet BBS system. 06:02:59 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:03:26 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:06:45 -!- w00tles has joined. 06:07:06 Specifically, SyncEdit. It is still in use today. 06:07:11 It has a Y2K bug. 06:09:26 -!- atslash has joined. 06:09:46 -!- lomoleg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:16:14 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 06:29:49 -!- intercross has joined. 06:33:36 https://24.media.tumblr.com/8270de4e1d887772dcc90f6561cc5bdc/tumblr_mzygcngmgX1rjmj84o1_500.png related 06:46:41 -!- aergus has joined. 06:48:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:48:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 06:48:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 06:52:05 <*STRLEN> XOR X,X MOV! Z,[Y++] PZF P AAB X,*1,:LOOP ; Do you like this? 06:54:10 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:04:14 -!- intercross has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:15:09 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:30:04 -!- aergus has joined. 07:44:32 https://proofmarket.org/problem/viewa/39 07:44:39 I assume the exploit is elsewhere? 07:44:46 And thus it would be silly to pay this? 07:45:44 it's right there in red-bordered warning, dude. 07:46:00 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 07:46:04 though I didn't know there was a false proof bug that recently 07:46:30 hmm, maybe it's an existing one if real, pl3 didn't seem to fix any proofs of false 07:46:59 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:47:18 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:47:32 also see https://proofmarket.org/ 07:48:29 elliott: I know it's for an old version, and that it was mentioned on the home page. Just commenting on how the proof itself isn't visible on there due to nonpayment 07:48:39 https://proofmarket.org/problem/view/11 dumb tricks 07:49:05 it would be silly to pay the price even if it were an actual proof of false in the current version 07:49:13 it's not worth however much that is worth 07:49:13 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:50:15 Seems like someone paid that one? 07:51:12 If they wrote the program that checks the proof, then they can pay for someone to find the bug in the program if it can be fixed, I suppose. 07:51:19 Oh, cheaper price 07:51:29 also people do silly things sometimes 07:51:29 0.01BTC isn't actually a lot of money, apparently 07:51:52 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:51:53 oh, it's just 0.01? 07:51:56 then pay if you want. 07:52:05 elliott: the one that was paid for that you linked is 0.01 07:52:08 if you're financially comfortable. 07:52:09 oh. 07:52:18 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:52:36 The one I linked is 1 BTC (which I am not paying for) 07:53:17 This site seriously need commas in its satoshi values 07:53:28 OK then don't pay for that one 07:53:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:54:51 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:55:13 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 08:42:17 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:45:20 -!- Slereahphone_ has joined. 08:45:38 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:45:38 -!- Slereahphone_ has changed nick to Slereahphone. 09:23:33 -!- oklopol has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:34:56 -!- w00tles has joined. 09:40:38 -!- JesseH has joined. 09:42:22 -!- JesseH2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:01:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:13:31 -!- boily has joined. 10:15:11 * boily mumbles and curses against DST 10:16:53 @massages-loud 10:16:53 int-e said 2d 20h 14m 36s ago: even if it accepted colors, I wouldn't see them; my client filters colors. 10:16:53 fizzie said 18h 46m 24s ago: ^style oots, just for you 10:17:26 fizzie: oh. oooooooh! :D 10:18:03 fungot: oots? 10:18:03 olsner: a lot, too. i was." anyone else. i'm amazed at how little you value those of your own. 10:18:15 ^style 10:18:15 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots* pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 10:18:28 fungot: you are a lucky bot :D 10:18:29 boily: we need to get the same, really, all the would-be kings and conquerors in the day, and the two of you, and i'll take that as a compliment! 10:37:43 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:47:54 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:48:40 -!- EgoBot has joined. 11:05:26 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 11:11:19 -!- Slereahphone_ has joined. 11:11:37 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:11:47 -!- Slereahphone_ has changed nick to Slereahphone. 11:18:27 In the D&D game I'm playing, my pacifist cleric lost an arm in a teleporter accident 11:19:02 And has a superweapon on his chest 11:29:18 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:29:43 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 11:32:18 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:32:37 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 11:33:48 Can you fix the arm? 11:33:57 Otherwise, too bad, you have to be more careful next time 11:38:35 Taneb: regenerate the arm with a regeneration spell 11:38:52 that's why you're a cleric 11:39:11 regenerate's really high level, though 11:39:18 Yeah, I'm slightly level 2 11:40:06 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:40:58 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 11:55:28 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:06:29 -!- aergus has joined. 12:16:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:18:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:19:37 hmm yeah, that spell has spell level 7. I thought it was lower. 12:19:54 I knew it was higher than you'd think it would be 12:20:01 probably so that missing limbs can be a real threat to the PCs 12:31:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:47:02 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 12:50:18 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 12:53:23 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Client Quit). 12:53:53 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 13:10:01 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:11:14 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 13:29:38 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:37:17 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 13:38:25 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:41:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:52:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:05:39 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:05:43 -!- Sorella_ has joined. 14:06:18 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:07:44 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:28:00 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 14:31:13 -!- yorick has joined. 14:31:17 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 14:40:37 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:44:07 -!- w00tles_ has joined. 14:49:33 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:49:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:49:34 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:49:34 -!- w00tles has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:50:40 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:52:00 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:52:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 14:52:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:54:37 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:54:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:22:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:36:24 -!- w00tles_ has quit (Quit: quit). 15:38:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: No route to host). 15:41:20 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 15:44:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:45:09 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 15:54:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:01:43 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:02:34 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:03:22 -!- tromp_ has quit. 16:10:28 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:24:06 -!- Chamakita-moreno has joined. 16:28:37 http://phpthegoodparts.tumblr.com/ 16:29:48 -!- Sorella has quit (Disconnected by services). 16:29:52 -!- Sorella_ has changed nick to Sorella. 16:29:59 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 16:29:59 -!- Sorella has joined. 16:31:09 -!- Sorella_ has joined. 16:33:22 -!- shikhin has changed nick to sirkhin. 16:35:27 -!- sirkhin has changed nick to shikhin. 16:38:58 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:39:35 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:43:40 hol sorella como estas cuantos os tienes 16:44:14 Chamakita-moreno, ah, sorry, I don't speak Spanish :( 16:44:53 I don't speak Spanish either :-( 16:47:20 `bienvenido Chamakita-moreno 16:47:21 Chamakita-moreno: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 16:47:32 `rienvenido 16:47:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rienvenido: not found 16:48:04 HackEgo should have method_missing 16:48:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:48:25 that would be such a disaster in this channel 16:49:02 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 16:49:03 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Client Quit). 16:49:18 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:49:49 oh wow, I forgot we had a Spanish version of welcome 16:50:01 I guess the stupid welcome variants are in fact useful 16:52:10 -!- ^v has joined. 16:55:47 `stelcome 16:55:47 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: stelcome: not found 16:56:55 -!- Chamakita-moreno has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 16:57:19 ion: is your idea to look for all unknown commands starting with "r", then rainbow-ing the output of a command that's equal apart from the first letter? 17:00:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakeya_set 17:01:09 i like just how utterly mad this whole field of investigation is 17:06:35 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:11:29 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:16:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:30:37 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:44:01 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:45:23 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 17:56:13 I wonder what kind of computation you can do using the state machines from http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html and http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html 17:56:53 kmc: is that the "how to interpret broken HTML in HTML5" rules? 17:57:21 I mean, it's the HTML5 syntax spec 17:57:29 which precisely specifies behavior for all input, broken or not 17:57:35 right 17:57:47 but the handling broken input is why they're so complex 17:58:02 and does so based on not really a formal grammar or anything but a reverse engineering of a bunch of browsers 17:58:13 yes 17:58:25 well, you wouldn't need to reverse-engineer the open source ones 17:58:27 you could just read the code 17:59:19 understanding a huge hairy codebase usually involves a lot of reverse engineering even if you have the source 18:04:09 -!- aergus has joined. 18:19:28 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 18:20:07 -!- conehead has joined. 18:23:53 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:37:44 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:38:01 -!- aergus has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:38:14 -!- aergus has joined. 18:40:38 -!- Slereahphone_ has joined. 18:41:38 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:41:41 -!- Slereahphone_ has changed nick to Slereahphone. 18:46:03 `rienvenido <-- alas, `bienvenido is so long by itself that there's no room for extra colors 18:46:21 had to shorten the wiki url to even get what's there to fit 18:49:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:51:24 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:52:57 http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1zz1i5/are_imaginary_and_complex_numbers_used_outside_of/ hahaha wow 18:53:35 Oh actually 18:54:01 oerjan, is there some kind of structure that has the same relationship with the higher-dimensional homotopy groups as covering spaces do with the fundamental group? 18:56:57 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:00:21 huh 19:00:48 sadly i know next to nothing about higher-dimensional homotopy groups. 19:11:59 I'm having to decide between living in a small bedroom in a nice location next year, or a larger bedroom in a much worse location 19:12:28 -!- Slereahphone_ has joined. 19:12:34 i met some people from york the other day 19:12:53 we almost beat their B team at underwater hockey but they won in the playoffs and we came last :( 19:13:15 Did you ask them to say hi to me 19:13:28 underwater hockey 19:13:34 kmc, it's a thing! 19:13:58 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:13:58 -!- Slereahphone_ has changed nick to Slereahphone. 19:13:59 i attempted to establish if anyone knew a guy called van doorn 19:14:14 (they do sports, probably not) 19:14:24 what about van doom 19:14:28 i think i found someone who was in first year and doing maths and/or CS and told them to say hi or something but this was at the afterparty and they may well have forgotten 19:14:41 How long ago was this 19:15:23 night before last 19:15:41 Well, I have attended a grand total of 2 lectures since then 19:15:46 Neither of which were maths 19:17:18 hm i think the latest iwc rerun annotation reveals the _real_ reason why the nazis invaded norway. 19:17:33 I haven't been keeping up with it :( 19:17:46 kmc: gah, I guess one advantage of fixed-width fonts is that you can easily distinguish overkerning from actually separate letters 19:19:06 :) 19:19:58 "keming" :-) 19:20:07 I've started noticing markings (e.g. painted or embossed on streets) that use variable-width characters but with non-overlapping rectangular bounding boxes 19:20:13 which produces really bad kerning in some cases 19:20:40 the people who label streets here also misspell the names quite often 19:20:55 Keming Highway 19:22:15 kmc: that's basically the absence of kerning, right? 19:22:33 something that caught my attention in an unkerned font recently was "W/", that looks ugly without kerning 19:23:24 yeah W is a big offender 19:24:22 "To" is nasty because it looks ugly no matter how it's kerned 19:28:23 /nick krnc 19:29:14 kr is pretty badly kerned in the font i'm looking at 19:31:05 how can you screw up kerning "kr"? "r" has a flat edge that the edge of "k" doesn't extend above 19:31:25 ais523: yeah I guess 19:33:48 Chrome / WebKit / Blink / whatever has bad kerning 19:33:59 try data:text/html,AWAKE in Chrome vs Firefox 19:34:57 Firefox's is slightly too tight, but Chrome's is much too loose 19:35:26 in theory this can be controlled using https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/text-rendering but I'm not seeing a difference in either browser 19:35:53 On this system, the overall rendering of W in Chromium seems messier than in Firefox too. 19:36:23 Different fonts, perhaps. 19:37:06 Servo also has bad (no?) kerning ;P 19:42:05 IMO it's kind-of sad that browsers have to do their own font rendering 19:42:10 but I guess it's inevitable 19:42:36 I preferred it back when HTML was just for semantics and the browser decided the presentation 19:42:39 none of this CSS stuff 19:43:27 that was never actually how people used HTML 19:43:27 why shouldn't it be the user who gets to decide what a web page looks like, rather than having to rely on the site itself 19:43:35 because content authors care about presentation 19:43:53 i've been occasionally fantasizing how a web for an interplanetary civilization (with ftl communication) with aliens of different species would work. 19:43:58 well originally you /couldn't/ use any other way, except for using nbsps for alignment 19:44:08 and then people started abusing table widths 19:44:16 kmc: not true, http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/TheProject.html is semantic as heck 19:44:21 it would make _no_ sense to have the same style for everyone then. 19:44:33 oerjan: body { writing-mode: heptapod-b; } 19:44:43 also, browser default stylesheets would be /so/ much better in this world 19:44:57 ais523: why don't users typeset their own books and design the posters they see 19:45:11 and lay out their own UIs 19:45:33 why don't painters just write descriptions like "some fruit on a table" and then if you want to look at it you paint it yourself however you like 19:45:39 answer: because these are all tasks that (a) most people are awful at, (b) are highly tailored to the specific nature of the underlying content, which is not entirely separable from the format it is placed within 19:45:47 elliott: I'm probably the wrong person to ask, "why can't I retypeset this manual" is one of my major gripes with most documentation 19:45:51 and if I had time I'd write a program to do it 19:46:12 but the point is to have centralized styling and the like 19:46:16 designed by some expert at Mozilla 19:46:27 or whoever provides the browser 19:46:35 the user could override it but there'd mostly be no reason to 19:46:58 for months, I set my web browser to override all colors 19:47:12 I agree you're the wrong person to ask 19:47:14 for text/background, at least 19:47:15 and see (b) 19:47:30 although I stopped because it turned out that too many websites were hardcoding the background of text fields to white 19:47:38 I mean we could also fire all the typographers and designers and have every single thing we see look exactly the same 19:47:40 or approximately-but-not-exactly white colors 19:47:43 and the override didn't work 19:47:46 and lose all kinds of information encoded in design 19:47:54 you know, if you wanted, for principles 19:48:10 http://www.lootcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/generic-beer.jpg 19:48:27 elliott: and you'd end up making the Web better on average, although worse at maximum 19:48:53 also, there's a good chance the whole webapp thing would never have taken off, which would probably have been for the best 19:48:59 no it would still be shit 19:49:08 as people would be writing applications in a language that was actually vaguely suited for it 19:49:48 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:50:01 I.e. flash or java applets? 19:50:33 Java actually had the right idea, its problems are mostly that the implementation is mindboggingly awful 19:50:36 flash's scripting language is very close to javascript... 19:51:15 JS isn't that bad, really... you have to build the abstractions yourself (Lambda the Ultimate!) but people manage to do so successfully 19:51:29 ActionScript is basically JavaScript with a more Java-like OO model 19:51:51 there's a key difference between JS as a bad language and PHP as a bad language (besides PHP being much worse) 19:52:09 which is that anybody with a clue just stops using PHP 19:52:33 whereas a lot of people are more or less forced to use JS so they work out ways to make it tolerable 19:52:47 and also the language designers and implementors know what they're doing 19:52:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:52:52 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:53:06 even if the initial conception was... flawed 19:53:37 the main problem with JS is that it was designed in entirely too little time 19:54:32 like, Eich could probaby have done a better job if he didn't need to get it working in, like, a week 19:54:34 or whatever it was 19:56:35 I think the only reason it uses function scope rather than lexical scope is that that was faster to implement 19:58:20 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:13:13 whereas a lot of people are more or less forced to use JS so they work out ways to make it tolerable 20:13:21 <`^_^v> it was pretty good for a 1995 language though 20:13:30 were people not more or less forced to use php, especially back in the early oughties? 20:13:44 Phantom_Hoover: before VPSes existed, yes 20:14:10 `^_^v: the designers of JS knew what they were doing, just didn't get a chance to actually do it 20:14:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v:: not found 20:14:35 quick, someone write a '^_^v:' HackEgo command that does something really obnoxious 20:14:48 and a '^_^v,' command that mocks Vorpal 20:14:54 for using commas in nickpings 20:15:57 hey, i use commas in nickpings! 20:16:13 Phantom_Hoover: hey isn't online 20:16:25 -!- Guest80165 has changed nick to Gregor. 20:16:29 and hasn't been for 47 weeks 20:18:28 Gregor: is there some way to goad HackEgo into giving no output for a command? 20:19:13 <`^_^v> `echo "foo" > /dev/null 20:19:13 ​"foo" > /dev/null 20:19:41 `` echo foo > /dev/null 20:19:42 No output. 20:19:50 `^_^v: please give up already if you don't even understand the question _or_ how HackEgo works. 20:19:51 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v:: not found 20:19:53 I think there's a difference between no output and "No output." 20:19:57 yes. 20:20:26 also don't tell me Gregor just changed his nick but is _still_ idle. 20:20:40 is there some convoluted way to get it stuck on a spam filter? 20:20:47 There is presently no way of goading HackEgo into giving no output whatsoever. 20:20:54 oh no 20:21:18 `true 20:21:19 No output. 20:21:19 It lives by the philosophy that one line of input (command) equals one line of output. 20:21:20 what about using it from a channel whose name is almost 510 characters long? 20:21:28 lol 20:21:30 you have to think outside the box here, people! 20:22:11 `` echo " " 20:22:12 No output. 20:22:16 * oerjan slaps ais523 with a reversed X/Y problem 20:22:17 weak! 20:22:26 oerjan: using it from PM has much the same effect, it seems 20:22:31 especially if you have it on ignore 20:22:38 * oerjan slaps ais523 again 20:22:39 but you may want the command to be issued in #esoteric 20:22:49 `` echo -e "\xA0" 20:22:50 ​ 20:22:54 I believe I know what your actual goal is 20:22:59 but it's not the same as your stated goal 20:23:11 ais523: thus the reversed X/Y problem 20:23:26 oerjan: the difference is that I'm going to continue trying to think up solutions to the stated goal 20:23:29 because it's the more interesting one 20:24:05 I know, you could write a bot with permanent op powers, that mutes HackEgo for a few seconds whenever the command is given 20:24:16 `` echo 160P | dc 20:24:16 ​ 20:24:22 `` echo -e "\xC2\xA0" 20:24:22 ​  20:24:39 HackEgo seems to think in Latin-1 20:24:40 thanks Melvar 20:25:01 `` echo -e "\x01" 20:25:02 ​. 20:25:09 `` echo -e "\x81" 20:25:10 ​ 20:25:22 `` hexdump -C <<<"ä" 20:25:22 00000000 c3 a4 0a |...| \ 00000003 20:25:27 how does that expand into /four/ characters? 20:25:41 `` (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo "echo lambdabot: @tell `^_^v Get a better nick") >bin/'^_^v'; chmod +x bin/'^_^v' 20:25:41 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 20:25:46 argh 20:26:04 ais523: What? 20:26:04 `` (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'echo lambdabot: @tell `^_^v Get a better nick') >bin/'^_^v'; chmod +x bin/'^_^v' 20:26:06 No output. 20:26:12 Melvar: ​ 20:26:16 `^_^v: BOO 20:26:17 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ^_^v:: not found 20:26:21 oops 20:26:36 hmph 20:26:43 oerjan: forgot the colon 20:27:06 oh 20:27:06 <`^_^v> my nick is fine, it's the bot that is the problem 20:27:13 ais523: I don’t see him say that anywhere? 20:27:17 `` (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'echo lambdabot: @tell `^_^v Get a better nick') >bin/'^_^v:'; chmod +x bin/'^_^v:' 20:27:19 No output. 20:27:25 `^_^v: HAH 20:27:25 ​/hackenv/bin/^_^v:: 3: /hackenv/bin/^_^v:: Syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution 20:27:30 oh wtf 20:27:35 forgot to quote 20:27:51 you need a '\'' around the first use of the nick 20:28:18 you mean \`? 20:28:29 no 20:28:36 `` (echo '#!/bin/sh'; echo 'echo lambdabot: @tell '\''`^_^v'\'' Get a better nick') >bin/'^_^v:'; chmod +x bin/'^_^v:' 20:28:37 there are two command 20:28:37 No output. 20:28:41 *commands 20:28:46 `^_^v: *MWAHAHAHA* 20:28:46 lambdabot: @tell `^_^v Get a better nick 20:28:47 Consider it noted. 20:28:51 the `` command that creates the executable, and the executable it creates 20:28:52 @ignore HackEgo 20:28:52 Plugin `system' failed with: user error (invalid usage) 20:29:02 int-e: *MWAHAHAHA* 20:29:16 int-e: also that's mean :( 20:29:26 it's correctly quoted for the outside one, but not for the inside one 20:29:58 right, but if the ` survives the first shouldn't it be inside single quotes the second time around? or was there a third? 20:30:16 @ignore freenode:HackEgo 20:30:16 Plugin `system' failed with: user error (invalid usage) 20:30:21 no? 20:30:22 olsner: it should be in single quotes the second time 20:30:26 because ` is a metacharacter 20:30:35 thus it needs to be in two sets of single quotes the first time 20:30:47 thus, '\'', which is how you put a single-quote in a single-quoted string in bash 20:31:31 oh. 20:31:33 then \\\` should have worked too? 20:31:36 @ignore + freenode:HackEgo 20:31:37 or '"'"' if you want to be stylish 20:31:37 int-e: @ignore + 20:31:59 olsner: \` would have worked for the second layer of quoting 20:32:11 not the first, though, unless you want to quote all the spaces individually 20:32:17 elliott: I should have realized that @admin and @ignore are the same 20:33:10 (wrt to syntax. don't get any foolish ideas) 20:33:35 int-e: I could believe they were a combined user manipulation command that changed user ranks 20:33:54 that's how many auth systems work 20:34:00 ais523: haha, lambdabot doesn't have that kind of structure 20:34:06 `run rm bin/'^_^v'* 20:34:07 No output. 20:34:13 also you can have ignored admins 20:34:15 elliott: but it's believable that it does 20:34:26 you've clearly never looked at the code 20:34:35 indeed 20:34:44 int-e: is lambdabot in more than one network? 20:34:44 that's why I can continue to maintain the belief 20:36:22 nope 20:36:34 why the freenode: then 20:36:48 but in theory it could be, I guess 20:40:05 why is that a Data.Map.Map Nick Bool for each, ignored users and admins? 20:40:29 someone didn't want to be Set in their ways 20:40:59 might have been written by someone used to Perl 20:41:06 Perl has Set too, but it's just /so easy/ to do a map to bools 20:41:38 I even went and optimized a map to bools, by making it a map where the possible values were "undef" and "key not found" 20:41:51 this is really confusing, but sped the inner loop up like 50%, so 20:41:55 otoh that makes it easier to merge them into Data.Map.Map Nick Status 20:42:13 if you would like 20:42:54 does the un-ignore/admin function set the value to False or actually remove the nick? 20:43:07 olsner: delete 20:43:37 this reminds me of the quote map in lambdabot which has two ways for a nick not to have quotes 20:44:05 or had, ~5 years ago 20:44:23 @quote olsner 20:44:23 olsner says: shapr: 2eyb6ard 0a5ntenance 20:45:24 could be active numlock on a thinkpad. 20:45:35 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:46:04 not on a thinkpad, but it was indeed numlock 20:46:52 int-e: you know that thing where sometimes instead of a quote you get an error like "getRandItem: empty list"? 20:47:20 yes, I recall that 20:47:23 I believe it is fixed 20:47:26 ah, nice 20:52:11 @quote ais523 20:52:11 No quotes match. I've seen penguins that can type better than that. 20:53:53 `run quote ais523 | shuf -1 20:53:55 shuf: invalid option -- '1' \ Try `shuf --help' for more information. 20:54:11 `run quote ais523 | shuf -n 1 20:54:11 931) Áis523ÎkËÇÏ52Í¿ÉnÐffjliated/ais523: ever tried reading while confused? 20:54:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:55:36 `run quote oerjan | shuf -n 1 20:55:37 640) if only alonzo church would have anticipated the computer terminal... itidus20: What do you think it would be if he did so? i just plucked his name at random [...] if only the marquis de sade would have anticipated hospital romance novels 20:55:40 * oerjan remembers that bug being fixed but not what it was 20:56:08 i said that? O_o 20:56:15 removing the last quote for a person left an empty list of quotes in the Map Nick [Quote] 20:56:42 olsner: um not the lambdabot one, the fungot one 20:56:42 oerjan: come here, my snuggly green cutie-pie! 20:56:52 fungot has bugs? 20:56:53 olsner: and as for the elf-- self-reliance. 20:57:01 olsner: _had_ bugs. 20:57:08 fungot had bugs? 20:57:09 olsner: it's so nice and listen to my song! 20:57:36 well, a nick-scrambling feature. 20:57:38 daisy daisy? 20:58:07 * int-e considers removing fungot's memory banks before it's too lat.e 20:58:07 int-e: my name is " roy's archon" 20:58:43 but I guess someone beat me to it. 20:59:11 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:59:23 fungot's in OoTS mode again, I see 20:59:23 ais523: by my calculations, taking into account the ambient temperature and our current longitude, i estimate that i have eliminated! 21:00:42 ais523: i don't recall em leaving it... 21:01:19 well I took it out into some other mode a while back, IIRC 21:01:27 I like europarl, I'll use that one 21:01:30 ^style europarl 21:01:30 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 21:01:34 fiendish 21:01:46 fungot: opinions on the current crisis in Crimea? 21:01:47 ais523: the group of the greens/ european free alliance and the pse group and the gue group deals with two issues which he mentioned. according to the world bank and the european parliament' s political principles. please allow me to make specific mention of women's rights straight back on the disaster of war and wanting a conclusion to those negotiations, including cuba's accession to the eu, the commission cannot accept amend 21:02:00 hmm, it's almost relevant 21:02:13 especially the bit at the end 21:02:21 (did Cuba apply to join the EU, or is that a fungotism?) 21:02:22 ais523: madam president, first of all strike at the moment, but the wording could be tightened up to quickly ban the production of the latin american countries would be greatly appreciated in ireland if you would confirm that we will be able to establish that. for every member state, the head of the regulatory regime for hedge funds which will be discussed by the conference of presidents, we decided to allocate ecu 200m to this 21:04:53 i am getting the feeling lately that there's no sensible argument of law that says crimea cannot legally revolt and secede, but that ukraine could legally revolt and throw out yanukovich. unless the ukrainian constitution actually _had_ a means to impeach him, which you'd think people would have brought up by now. 21:07:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych#Impeachment_and_vote_to_remove 21:07:15 as in, the arguments of the west make at least as little sense as the russian ones. 21:07:23 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:08:25 are the West arguing that Crimea can't revolt? I thought they were arguing that Russia couldn't interfere, due to treaty 21:09:26 hm right that treaty too... 21:12:31 ais523: reading that section, i'm sure if a nomic had done what ukraine did, you'd be wildly protesting :P 21:13:06 probably trying to recover it 21:13:25 however, I'm not sure anyone cares about the platonic state of the ruleset in times of revolution 21:13:26 Yes, it had bugs. 21:15:03 ais523: well i've heard that the west is arguing that crimea's council's decision to hold a referendum is unconstitutional, so they are obviously trying to use that kind of argument when it fits their view 21:15:43 this is what I don't like about, well, every debate ever 21:15:43 (although i've also read that the council's quorum was faked) 21:15:58 people just cherry-picking the points that support their opinion 21:16:22 the advantage of adversarial systems is that you expect the adversary to make the other set of points 21:16:51 but when there are four or five sides that don't line up neatly, and a communication vacuum 21:16:54 it doesn't really work 21:17:01 yeah 21:17:20 oerjan: The bug was that the code for checking whether a potential outgoing message is too long had a stack problem (forgot to pop a value, or popped one value too many) in the "yes, it is too long" branch, leading to confusion esp. when used with things like europarl, where it fired oftener. 21:18:01 right 21:18:21 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:19:05 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 21:20:18 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:21:16 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 21:21:34 -!- Tod-Autojoined2 has joined. 21:22:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:23:18 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:24:10 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:28:43 what language is fungot written in? 21:28:43 int-e: madam president, we are meeting to discuss the subsidiarity issue in a way which carries any conviction. the commission is supportive of her point of view of what has been up till now to make the financial systems more competitive. in any case, i apologise on behalf of the committee on the environment. 21:29:14 ^source 21:29:14 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 21:29:28 europarl? 21:31:16 oh. 21:32:34 * int-e backs away from fizzie slowly. 21:36:46 That's why the name starts with "fung". 21:37:22 that explanation comes a bit too late. 21:37:27 fungot: I'm proud of you, you sound like a real politician, all content-free. 21:37:28 fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, we have stronger protection for human health, but to ensure that this new new york process should not be a substitute for a statement from the commissioner to finish her response. it was emphatic in supporting the struggle of the peoples involved sufficiently supportive of the annual report as soon as they reach completion. it is somewhat unusual. he is still a need in the future is w 21:37:41 I used to parse it as fun-got 21:38:01 Well, it's "funge bot". 21:38:17 I 'ot it, ok? 21:38:35 One could even say you fun-got it. 21:38:51 can it do befunge, then? 21:39:05 Heh, I guessed, and I’ve only been here less than a week. 21:39:47 There's a ^code command that makes it run the given input with SUBR, but it's limited to the administrator, because it's both insecure and brittle. 21:40:02 fizzie: it's got a lot less fun now. 21:40:31 Translating befbef.bf to Funge-98 would make it possible to have it interpret Befunge-93. 21:40:49 "new new york process" is a pretty good name for a process 21:41:04 Though Befunge isn't all *that* well suited to IRC oneliners. 21:43:52 it's got to be better than Python 21:51:29 -!- idris-ircslave has quit (Quit: Terminated). 21:51:39 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: rebooting). 21:52:04 ais523: Also, no, Cuba has not applied for EU membership; it's a combination of "-- consider whether this is in any way the right approach in view of Cuba's accession to the Cotonou Agreement." and any of a number of different "-- accession to the EU, the --" fragments. 21:53:04 fizzie: I guessed that was indeed what happened, although always interesting to see the original fragments 21:53:39 fungot: what's the cotonou agreement? 21:53:40 olsner: mr president, this document still fails to address the issue of simplifying and updating this regulation is fine. i am not convinced, myself, as you are probably familiar, i hope, and perhaps parliament is also provided for a minimum of assistance in the area of freedom, security and defence policy also endorses this analysis, the background level of the departments of dg vi ruled that the limitations on managerial prog 21:54:34 The first quoted fragment is the only... wait, no, there's another. Well, there's two instances of "Cuba's accession" in the source text. 21:55:46 fungot: Typical mealy-mouthed doubletalk from you again. 21:55:46 fizzie: madam president, commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, first of all to congratulate mr fourans on his excellent report. in its communication, the european fnord network. i strongly object to the united kingdom, which prefer it that way, you are simply fighting democracy. 21:55:47 -!- Melvar has joined. 21:56:14 Ah, the good old European fnord network. One of the most important organs of the EU. 21:56:44 I don't like fizzie's opinion on the UK, though 21:57:20 Phantom_Hoover, what are your thoughts on fungot being pro-Scottish independence? 21:57:21 Taneb: mr president, commissioner, i would like to be caught by fishermen from guinea, who wanted the time to do the same in political terms, the commission has made to make a great difference between mr olsson's views and my own country, sweden, a women dies every ten days because she has taken a political decision. each member state not even mrs jorritsma, fnord of all firms and employ 66% of the population, that is, its own 21:57:26 Disclaimer: any opinions provided by fungot are strictly personal do not necessarily represent the opinions of fizziecorp. 21:57:26 fizzie: mr president, we are benefiting from special treatment, as a wider presence for scottish language and culture as many european universities have links with taiwan are very strong indications that torture is a crime in germany but also in other areas. 21:58:42 Torture -- a crime in not only Germany, but also in other areas. (Or at least there are strong indications for that; we can't be certain.) 21:59:52 I'm glad it's probably illegal elsewhere too 22:00:09 `addquote Taneb: mr president, commissioner, i would like to be caught by fishermen from guinea, [...] 22:00:09 fizzie: mr president, the extensive action programme for central america, we must not be exploited on european ships just because they have fewer controls and do not really achieve results. 22:00:11 1175) Taneb: mr president, commissioner, i would like to be caught by fishermen from guinea, [...] 22:00:25 I think that ^ is something we all aspire to. 22:01:34 In retrospect, possibly the second phrase could also have made the cut. 22:02:01 Also, "a women dies every ten days because she has taken a political decision"? 22:02:26 Wonder if that's really in there. 22:02:50 Phantom_Hoover, what are your thoughts on fungot being pro-Scottish independence? 22:02:51 Phantom_Hoover: madam president, i am sorry, too, is in reality the problem, however. first of all, we can still support them, whether they achieved practical results, are totally misleading. 22:02:56 god bless you fungot 22:02:56 Phantom_Hoover: mr president, i believe we should take a more balanced debate. they are also developing sectors in which there is minimal to no demand from fnord associations and programmes. 22:03:10 oh well he's retreating from his earlier statements 22:04:13 "In my homeland of Sweden, a women dies every ten days because she has been badly beaten by a man who is close to her." Oh, so not because of political decisions, then. 22:09:21 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:12:04 -!- idris-ircslave has joined. 22:13:50 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:17:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:17:06 -!- yorick has joined. 22:37:21 "the exact behavior of [document.write] can in some cases be dependent on network latency" 22:37:22 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:37:24 best. platform. ever. 22:40:04 kek 22:44:18 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:47:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:53:19 -!- Sorella_ has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 23:03:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:08:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:10:10 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 23:12:47 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:13:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:14:20 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 23:14:53 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:19:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:23:38 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:51:36 "the exact behavior of [document.write] can in some cases be dependent on network latency" 23:51:46 i saw the square brackets and assumed this was smalltalk initially 23:51:56 not Objective C? 23:53:59 i associate them more with smalltalk for some reason 23:54:49 :t runCont 23:54:50 Cont r a -> (a -> r) -> r 23:54:54 gah, now I've started associating them with Feather 23:55:01 even though I can no longer remember Feather syntax 23:55:12 and I'm not sure it was ever very pinned down anyway 23:55:31 all I can remember was that the guiding principle was "look like Smalltalk but for different reasons" 23:57:42 I remember you talking about Smalltalk inspiring Feather 23:58:38 yeah 23:58:51 the entirety of Feather was me trying to fix small perceived problems with Smalltalk 23:59:03 actually, I guess I have a tendency to do that 23:59:12 luckily in NetHack 4, we only ended up with grammartree 23:59:29 "Hey ais, have you fixed the sink yet?" "Just a minute, I'm working on a generalization of navier-stokes I'll need"