2014-02-01: 00:09:50 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:21:39 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:32:40 zzo38: HWPL? 00:33:52 It is a hardware programming language. 00:38:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:41:50 Why am I so tempted to buy a Kindle? 00:46:37 Worms are eating your brain 00:48:47 Sgeo: If you buy a Nook, you can root it and install the Kindle Android app. 00:49:24 I want to unroot my Nook (if I can find it), but don't have a usable SD card slot thing 00:49:37 Also, sounds like Kindle is more... sync-y than Nook 01:18:06 The DRM scares me, but B&N is DRMed too 01:27:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:38:42 -!- tromp__ has quit. 01:54:52 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:22 -!- tromp has joined. 02:19:23 -!- Bike has joined. 02:22:46 -!- Bike_ has joined. 02:22:47 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:22:56 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 02:25:55 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 02:51:56 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:55:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:00:44 I made up this equation (where f^ represents functional powers): $$f_x(y)=\left(f^{y!}_{x-1}(y!)\right)^x+y$$ How much does the number get larger more faster? 03:15:08 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:23:08 I tried to calculate $f_2(2)$ but I am not sure if I got the correct answer, and I haven't tried $f_3(3)$, or, if $n=f_3(3)$ what is $f_n(n)$ = ? 03:42:04 How much tacks^Wtax do you put in your 6502 programs? 04:13:06 i would guess it grows Pretty Fast. 04:13:18 what's f_0 04:14:02 It will be to the power of zero, so f_0 is just the successor function. 04:14:17 A special case is not needed. 04:14:52 But what if the inner term turned out to be zero so you got 0^0 04:14:55 be afraid 04:14:58 but yeah ok. 04:15:02 Anything to power of zero is one. 04:15:51 Even LJHG(Y#)R(N#%()YNM!_N%C|~(@|%TXOUEQ>TXOUIWEQTTEEPTJPIT{UET...NO CARRIER to the power of zero still should be just one, isn't it? 04:21:28 f_2(2) = f^{2!}_1(2!)^2+2 = f^2_1(2)^2+2 = f_1(f_1(2))^2+2. f_1 = \y -> f^{y!}_0(y!)^1 + y = \y -> y!*y!+y. so f_1(f_1(2))^2+2 = f_1(2!*2!+2)^2+2 = f_1(6)^2+2 = (6!*6!+6)^2+2 = (720*720+6)^2+2 = 518406^2+2 = 268744780838 04:21:32 I think? 04:22:51 I probably calculated it wrongly 06:43:26 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:44:01 -!- tromp has joined. 06:48:05 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:46:29 But it is large nevertheless, but still can be written easily enough, so it isn't really large. 08:21:48 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 08:53:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:20:37 -!- aergus has joined. 09:22:16 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:30:29 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 09:30:55 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:34:41 -!- elliott has joined. 09:37:18 -!- Sorella has joined. 10:14:57 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 10:22:09 Oh look, an identical rhythm with one of my song ideas. In mine it alternates between that and having the high hat hit simultaneously with the first kick drum hit following the snare. http://youtu.be/oSYNhfkNGco?t=2m25s 10:27:09 Heh, accidentally ran fdisk on a partition (sde1) instead of a disk (sde): http://sprunge.us/SKSW 10:27:15 "It sure doesn't, fdisk, it sure doesn't." 10:28:56 heh 10:29:23 Try writing it back and see if anything breaks. 10:29:39 that's quite a partition table 10:29:50 wtf is opus? other than a comic 10:30:00 and an audio codec 10:32:11 An old microkernel OS, apparently. 10:32:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent 10:32:50 "Initially started as a project within Apple to provide a replacement for the Mac OS, it was later spun off into a joint venture with IBM, for the purpose of building a competing platform to Microsoft Cairo and NeXTSTEP, as part of the AIM alliance." 10:32:56 I think the technical term is a "dead end". 10:35:21 (Found a whopping 64 megabyte CF card, was checking what's on it.) 10:36:28 That could hold, like, a whopping five photos! 10:37:40 I think it used to hold, like, a hundred. I (most likely) used it in a jpeg-only 1600x1200 resolution camera. 10:43:15 http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/dcc/data/2001-2002/2002_ps-a200.html?lang=us&categ=srs&page=psa this one. 10:43:38 "The A200 also features an all-glass lens --" high-end! 10:45:12 Capable of a 9-seconds 320x240 (or a 26-second 160x120) movie and all. 10:46:57 lens guaranteed at least 86% dolphin free 10:47:45 (Though there's at least one thing in the spec sheet -- can do USB control; there was even gphoto2 support -- where it beats the succeeding camera I had.) 11:32:10 -!- namaskar has joined. 12:00:31 oh no! yet another grammar nazi trying to force people to use stupid irregular plurals for no reason! 12:00:37 I hate them! 12:01:04 wat r u takin but 12:07:29 I remember our (high school or the thing before that) math teacher writing 0⁰ on a blackboard, then asking "now, what's this?", then modifying it to ⁰0⁰ and going "it's Mickey Mouse". 12:08:13 uh that's clearly tetration?? 12:10:32 What's the precedence for tetration and exponentiation, anyway? Is ⁷8⁹ (⁷8)⁹ or ⁷(8⁹)? 12:10:58 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:11:36 i believe the precedence is "what the fuck are you doing" 12:13:31 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: do not stand down). 12:47:55 -!- namaskar has joined. 13:04:29 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:20:01 is there a argeed-upon substitute for 'ø' in false, should the environment prevent use of that letter? 13:20:29 and ß 13:21:45 use 'oe' hth 13:22:43 -!- yorick has joined. 13:24:24 I mean if I'm implementing a False implementation but the environment lacks 'ø', which is False for pick 13:25:30 fizzie, hi! 13:26:28 fizzie, Any idea how to figure out the bit-rate of a mp4? I'm having issues playing a certain piece of media in anything except mplayer on my gaming PC, so I want to transcode it for lower bit-rate so I can play it on non-beast machines 13:27:04 Even vlc on my gaming PC stutters 13:27:12 Which is pretty insane 13:36:53 Ah, found it: 13:36:56 VIDEO: [H264] 1280x720 24bpp 25.000 fps 2700.1 kbps (329.6 kbyte/s) 13:37:03 mplayer was able to calculate that 13:37:12 That is quite an insane bitrate I think? 13:37:55 Or hm what 13:38:10 No it isn't 13:41:29 I don't get it then, why doesn't the video want to play on anything but my desktop, and only in mplayer 13:48:06 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:51:12 -!- namaskar has joined. 13:59:30 Vorpal: I don't know enough about H264, but from a purely abstract point of view, a lower bitrate does not necessarily mean that it's easier to decode. 14:01:57 int-e, hm, what is the issue then? 14:12:50 I don't know, but here is a bit of wild speculation: Allowing B-frames to use interpolation sounds like fun, for example. But it could also be that some filter is used that is very rare, and hence not implemented efficiently. 14:14:01 The point is that it comes down to codec features used, and the bitrate does not contain any information about that. 14:16:28 I don't think the mplayer average-bitrate information is always terribly accurate, either. (VLC has Tools/Media Information/Statistics/Input bitrate view that can show an "instant" bitrate graph.) 14:17:33 fizzie, hm 14:18:22 fizzie, well I'm trying to transcode it with somewhat random parameters, hoping that solves the issue. Since the input file is a couple of hours long though... Hm how do I tell ffmpeg to only encode the first x seconds? 14:20:10 fizzie, yeah according to vlc the bitrate is 3.0 to 5.0 mbit/s. Can't find the graph though, my vlc may be too old 14:20:21 Since I'm on debian stable that is quite possible 14:21:48 There's a "-t X" flag, where X is a number in seconds or in hh:mm:ss. 14:21:58 (Restricts the output duration to that.) 14:22:49 Ah yes 14:23:00 Useful, I'll run some tests on the first 30 seconds. 14:24:55 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:31:36 Vorpal: there's no way that video should be playing slowly on your gaming PC at all 14:31:45 something sounds very broken 14:34:02 elliott, yes, and if i transcode it to even higher bit-rate (yes I know this is stupid for obvious reasons) it plays well. I guess the input stream is just super-quirky in some way 14:34:39 elliott, so I'll just transcode it to something half-reasonable to "fix" it. 14:36:03 Vorpal: it might be a muxing problem 14:36:08 try remuxing the file (don't need to reencode) 14:36:22 ffmpeg -i file.mp4 -vcodec copy -acodec copy file.fixed.mp4 14:36:33 elliott, tried that already. Didn't help. 14:37:29 can you upload the mp4? I kinda wanna poke at it. 14:38:18 elliott, it is 3.2 GB 14:38:27 elliott, Maybe I could do a copy of the first minute or so? 14:38:34 That would be reasonable 14:38:52 I've got a couple of H.264 files that play very badly (colorful artefacts) with the VDPAU-accelerated ffh264vdpau decoder, but just fine with regular ffh264. I assume they've managed to hit some corner case too. 14:38:53 Vorpal: if that produces the same problem, sure 14:39:01 Yeah 14:39:56 fizzie: probably a hardware bug, not an ffmpeg bug 14:40:35 Sure, but the VDPAU decoders play all other files just fine, so it's some quirk particular to these. 14:41:15 fizzie, well I tried it on a nexus tablet (dice player), a windows PC (vlc and windows media player), a mac (vlc) and two linux PCs (vlc and mplayer on both). Only gaming PC (booted to linux, haven't tried windows on it) + mplayer worked. 14:41:26 elliott, waiting for dropbox sync... 14:42:56 elliott, also in case you wonder, it is BBC Last Night of Proms, downloaded from Swedish public service web TV. Legal private copy and so on. And the copy to you is for debugging obviously. 14:43:23 elliott, see /msg for link 14:44:05 elliott, interestingly it plays okay in the dropbox mp4 player 14:44:11 wonder if they transcoded it?! 14:44:37 elliott, here is the sha512sum so you can check it transferred properly 98ac3693b3597f3e34909d15a3eea0fe8264744b0aa29b2184cc5ad596aa1434409c416c59d24c57f5b27a6f5ce2652deb2cb833d679e227ec72a2c3cbb288e4 14:45:21 file size in bytes would be simpler 14:45:23 * elliott is on Windows 14:45:27 Ah 14:45:42 21465184 bytes (21 MB) 14:47:50 elliott, using the download link for me, worked perfectly, checked the sha512sum 14:49:25 elliott, I'm pretty sure the web-player on dropbox does some transcoding, the quality looks worse than what I get from mplayer to me 14:49:39 Vorpal: /msg 14:51:01 elliott, /msg 15:03:37 fungot: /msg 15:03:37 fizzie: is it time to do it with 15:03:47 fungot: Yes, it is time. 15:03:48 fizzie: my advisor is giving.)) be considered abusive?" " oh, my goodness you're talking about. oh, shriram's book has a ' v' like in c 15:04:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:04:45 -!- augur has joined. 15:06:59 -!- augur_ has joined. 15:08:01 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:17:51 -!- tromp has joined. 16:00:50 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:11:46 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:12:06 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 16:12:07 -!- tertu has joined. 16:19:32 -!- namaskar has joined. 16:24:47 -!- conehead has joined. 16:26:55 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:30:41 -!- tertu has joined. 16:32:01 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:08:25 -!- fark-mcgee-zax has joined. 17:11:35 -!- fark-mcgee-zax has left. 17:35:01 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 17:35:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:57:00 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:45 The thing with B&N DRM and CC nums... is the CC num required in order to be able to crack the DRM, or required to attempt to unlock the book 'legitimately'? 18:34:16 -!- Bike has joined. 18:44:17 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:16:31 Thanks kmc 19:42:16 -!- aergus has joined. 19:48:18 -!- Effilry has joined. 19:49:57 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:08:01 -!- Koen_ has joined. 20:09:03 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:09:03 -!- Koen__ has joined. 20:16:30 -!- a_ergus has joined. 20:18:23 -!- aergus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:38:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:41:08 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 20:51:05 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:53:47 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:22:06 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: Koen__). 21:23:43 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:24:33 whoa, http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Y_combinator#Rust links to my website for some reason 21:26:56 -!- FireFly has joined. 21:27:39 -!- Effilry has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 21:28:30 cool 21:28:47 somebody should fix it up for Rust 0.9 21:29:54 why did they rename Rec to Mu :'( 21:30:42 do people just call things Mu 21:32:07 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140201-esoteric-2013.ogg it's bleeps and bloops time again 21:32:35 whoa, i didn't know people used opera 21:33:21 maybe that type should be called Curry 21:33:26 Curry a = Curry a -> a 21:33:31 except that would be confusing 21:36:10 fizzie: what's the bleeping and blooping of? 21:45:30 olsner: One year of logs[*]. ([*] Boring details available by request.) 21:55:40 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:13:21 fizzie, details please? 22:17:48 yeah, I'm interested too 22:22:03 It's taking top 64 nicks (counting messages in 2013, with slight canonicalization) sorted alphabetically, then making a 64x105120 matrix by counting number of messages in all 5-minute intervals in 2013; then some remapping (sigmoid function on the values, filtering across the time dimension with a 24-frame aka 2-hour Gaussian window), then inserting all those 64 "channels" as logarithmically ... 22:22:09 ... equally spaced lines from 200 Hz to 3 kHz in a magnitude spectrogram (with 32 ms frames and 75% overlap) and resynthesizing a time domain signal out of it. 22:22:54 Aaaaagh! Such pain. 22:23:04 You can sort-of hear the day cycle, which would be 86400/300 = 288 frames, and therefore 288 * 0.25 * 32 ms ~= 2.3 seconds. 22:24:06 -!- augur has joined. 22:24:21 (Or at least fool yourself into thinking you hear it.) 22:31:16 "The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony, and he stopped it. He ran the conversion program again, this time instructing it to force-map the pitch values into G minor. This was a utility he was determined in the end to get rid of because he regarded it as cheating. If there was any basis to his firmly held belief that the rhythms and harmonies of music which he found most satisfying could be found in, or... 22:31:22 ...at least derived from, the rhythms and harmonies of naturally occurring phenomena, then satisfying forms of modality and intonation should emerge naturally as well, rather than being forced. For the moment, though, he forced it. The result was a short burst of the most hideous cacophony in G minor." 22:35:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:35:43 -!- augur has joined. 22:37:39 beep boop 22:37:58 supkmc 22:38:42 do you know any animators 22:39:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:43:23 what kind 22:44:45 2d. 22:44:50 possibly vector 22:47:38 not really 22:48:07 ok 22:51:51 -!- atriq has joined. 23:03:26 i should be more careful with urls 23:04:09 hi shachaf 23:04:12 i'm told that cool uris don't change 23:04:35 but i just scatter them willy-nilly in the root of my website with random names 23:04:38 hi atriq 23:08:12 winners don't do drugs 23:08:30 druggers don't have wind 23:08:51 -!- namaskar has joined. 23:10:36 yay another brainfuck clone 23:11:29 is there one that just switches the meanings of [], +-, <> and .,? 23:11:50 atriq: i think phantom_hoover should do a public caning, do you agree? 23:11:55 pipe it through tr? 23:12:06 oerjan: good idea 23:12:12 hi copumpkin 23:12:20 hi shachaf 23:12:32 int-e: here's an idea. a bf-clone where all 8 commands all mean "choose a bf command uniformly at random and run it" 23:12:46 cut-rate druggists 23:12:57 I foresee a lot of invalid programs in that language 23:13:07 FireFly: all programs are valid 23:13:20 FireFly: I foresee none; it just comes down to running them often enough. 23:13:31 quintopia: what does ] do in brainfuck? 23:13:40 copumpkin: do you like zest 23:14:04 lemon? 23:14:10 for instance 23:14:22 (though admittedly most bf interpreters that I've written will just terminate the program at the first ] without matching [) 23:14:27 int-e: in this implementation, it would search backward for a corresponding [ and halt if it reaches the beginning of the program. alternately, we could assume every program starts and ends with infinitely [ and ] 23:14:43 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:16:49 quintopia: i assume that during the [] matching search it will determine randomly whether any given command is a [ or ] 23:17:37 drunkard's walk as a control flow structure 23:17:38 i like it 23:17:48 shachaf: sure 23:18:45 oerjan: obvi 23:18:56 http://sprunge.us/SKSW 23:19:02 wat 23:19:17 oerjan: so if you're more than 8 characters into the program already, there's a good chance of succeeding in finding one 23:19:25 hit paste somehow 23:28:34 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 23:47:14 -!- nisstyre has joined. 2014-02-02: 00:20:26 -!- ^v has joined. 00:23:26 -!- seba29 has joined. 00:24:54 Hi, is there someone that helps me with a reading? 00:35:13 -!- seba29 has left. 00:41:25 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:41:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:51:16 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:00:15 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:04:15 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 02:00:05 fungot: we should change the topic shouldn't we 02:00:05 kmc: i'll just detour that... which would become fnord which would usually be otherwise impossible 02:18:13 I own a Vorapede. 02:18:28 Not worth very much despite being a mythic rare 02:18:45 ...foot eater? 02:19:27 Looks a bit big to be a foot eater 02:20:03 Like it would rather eat a whole person than a foot 02:20:15 http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=262850 02:21:03 maybe it eats with its feet 02:21:30 basically looks like a giant snail right 02:22:12 So yeah, considering playing Draft at FNMs 02:23:05 Sgeo: 5 for a 5/4 vigilance trample that becomes a 6/5 vigilance trample is not that bad, is it? 02:23:21 oh, "worth" as in price 02:23:30 shachaf: no, but according to comments in Gatherer, there are other cards that outshine it 02:24:43 Apparently all Planeswalkers are mythic rares, which makes me sad 02:26:39 Sgeo: whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. those other cards are too good 02:28:09 (Kalonian Hydra is also too good) 02:32:17 That's blatantly too good... 3.5 stars why? 02:44:43 I understand that basic lands are colorless, but... is there any good flavor reason for that? 02:49:27 i want a card whose effect is "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously" 02:49:36 you've seen Drive, as i remember/away 02:49:53 what? 02:50:15 is that Bike pressing ↑ before typing /away 02:51:00 i don't know what that was 02:52:30 Sgeo: your job is to find a card that provides some sort of negative effect to your opponent for putting jams on their creatres 02:52:46 well, i mean, i was recommending movies, but not here 02:52:54 though Drive is a good movie. just, public announcement 02:54:02 maybe i should use Drive. i have all this storage space now 02:54:28 Bike: is Anastasia (1956 film) a good movie 02:54:50 haven't seen it, don't know 02:55:10 oh 02:55:23 i think the answer is yes 03:11:47 The only thing I think people dislike Kindle for over Nooks etc. is the DRM policies 03:12:54 ooh 03:12:55 "However if you use the Send to Kindle function to put your mobi books in the Amazon Cloud then DL to the iPad from the Cloud they will easily sync highlights, bookmarks, notes, etc. with the same mobi book on other Kindles and Kindle apps. " 03:18:35 I already bought it 03:19:39 Send to Kindle sounds really fun, and I remember regretting that the Nook didn't have it when I got the Nook 03:25:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:02:24 The Nook is worse DRMed in a way that's more important to me: Apparently it's tricky to retrieve notes and hilights 04:02:37 Not impossible (hopefully) 04:12:36 here's an exploit for that Linux x32 bug we were discussing: 04:12:37 http://pastebin.com/DH3Lbg54 04:13:02 which bug 04:14:30 "read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/Features and smirk a few times" -_- 04:14:36 man i miss my international keyboard 04:15:26 id instead of whoami, huh. is that the usual nowadays 04:15:34 Bike: -_- 04:16:01 what 04:16:05 Ubuntu deserves a lot of credit for some of the security stuff they've done 04:16:12 oh the quote 04:16:16 right 04:16:34 yeah it's just kind of bullyingly mean, which th ere is a better adjective for i'm sure but i can't think of it 04:26:02 h4xorz 04:26:08 fungot: u hax? 04:26:08 kmc: and call it done 04:40:32 -!- mroman_ has joined. 04:50:40 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:52:33 How common is it to checkmate with a castling move? 04:54:49 zzo38: p. uncommon hth 04:58:38 Yes, I don't expect it to be common, but how common is it anyways? And how common just to give check with a castling move even if it isn't checkmate? 04:59:01 And how common is it for the other player to resign immediately after one player castles? 05:06:07 -!- `^_^v has quit (Excess Flood). 05:06:29 -!- `^_^v has joined. 05:08:50 -!- mroman has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 05:25:37 Wizards of the Coast didn't like the Elo system and replaced it with the "Planeswalker Points" system, which is a terrible system. 05:26:01 (in my opinion) 05:27:19 zzo38: why all the castling questions 05:27:36 darn i thought you were being objective. 05:28:46 Chester came to school and said, / "Durn, I growed another head." / Teacher said, "It's time you knowed / The word is 'grew' instead of 'growed'" 05:29:30 shachaf: I once read about castling to put opponent in check, and even once did so myself, but haven't seen a castling move where it makes opponent checkmated, but am curious to know how common such things are. I did see once a game involving misinterpretations of older rules where castling with a promoted pawn is a checkmating move. 05:31:07 castle only as a sorcery 05:31:36 promoting a pawn to rook and then castling with it? 05:33:56 * ion bew to shachaf 05:35:49 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:36:21 -!- tromp has joined. 05:36:57 Bike: Yes 05:37:19 i thought you could only castle if the rook and king had never moved before? 05:39:51 Bike: That is correct. 05:40:53 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:46:41 ♖ 05:47:09 so how could you do it with a promoted pawn 05:47:21 you can't 05:48:07 "An exception is seen in the British Museum's collection of the medieval Lewis chess pieces in which the rooks appear as stern warders or wild-eyed Berzerker warriors." 05:48:33 It isn't actually allowed, but due to older rules some people thought it would be allowed; king goes to King's 3 and rook goes to King's 2, and notation O-O-O-O-O-O. 05:51:08 -!- augur has joined. 06:07:44 it's weird that the maglev speed record is only 6.2 km/hr more than the conventional rail speed record 06:08:44 zzo38: ꙮ-ꙮ-ꙮ-ꙮ-ꙮ-ꙮ-ꙮ 06:09:41 there haven't been many maglev trains 06:09:56 shachaf: what if I want to castle as an interrupt? 06:10:04 quintopia: indeed 06:10:27 I think interrupts are more flavorful... I mean, how odd is it that if I cast A, and opponent casts B in response, B takes less time than A? 06:12:50 and conventional rail technology has more than 200 years of refinement and mass worldwide deployment 06:15:36 I like it without the interrupts though 06:15:58 I don't care so much about "flavorful" 06:16:36 Sgeo: a wizard did it 06:18:10 (In a single player campaign) now have a 9/8 with trample 06:18:16 Is green generally this ridiculous? 06:30:30 9/8 is a nice time signature. 06:30:46 ꙮꙮh 07:10:36 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:16:00 "From now on I call From the Vault: 20 FtV: Jace. That's the reason most people are buying it. Its a foil Jace that comes with an extra 19 cards. :)" 07:20:25 Sgeo: Yes, green lurves crazy-big creatures like that. 07:20:34 That's expecially doable in a more casual game. 07:26:31 -!- conehead has joined. 07:50:06 -!- tertu has joined. 08:39:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:11:00 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:33:17 "(Yes, eval() is used here, leaving you at mortal risk of XSS-attacking yourself.)" 09:34:49 Sgeo: the disappointing part of From the Vault: 20 is how it has 5 cards that generate mana. why couldn't they put more diversity in? 09:43:10 "Who even rates this higher than 0.5? This card makes Rod of Ruin look good." 09:43:17 http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?multiverseid=198395 09:47:51 so, you have to spend 3 mana to make 1 dammage? 09:47:59 brilliant 09:52:07 myname: worse... 2 equip 09:52:12 -!- SeeNoEvil has joined. 09:52:21 So 5 total, although possibly spread over two turns 09:52:52 Sgeo, magic the gathering? 09:52:58 Vorpal: yes 09:53:06 Ah 09:53:33 there are really strange cards 09:53:37 Yep 09:54:10 i remember one that gives you an advantage as long as you do not speak with your normal voice 09:57:21 heh, what 09:58:51 bbl 10:15:10 Presumably Unglued or Unhinged 10:15:15 Or really old 10:15:29 Unglued+Unhinged are not tournament legal, they're not considered real cards 10:24:29 You know, I always wondered what would happen if I changed the VGA buffer without first switching to graphic mode 10:24:32 Well I just found out 10:24:39 WHO DREW ALL OVER MY MS DOS 10:26:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:27:51 I would have bet (some, but not very much) money on nothing interesting in particular happening, for writing to 0xa0000..affff while in a text mode. (Or was this in DOSBox or something?) 10:28:04 Dosbox 10:28:51 If you can be bothered, you could try it out in qemu or bochs or something real. 10:28:59 I cannot 10:29:03 It is sunday! 10:29:38 Aw. Well, I wouldn't take it as conclusive proof as to what would happen on a real computer. You know, in case your life depended on it or anything. 10:31:42 -!- Froox has joined. 10:32:00 I don't think the case will ever pop up 10:40:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 10:40:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 10:40:55 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 10:43:32 http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/delegated-strings so many TLDs 10:44:06 too distracted by "Valuetainment" to read the rest 10:44:36 I wonder if .cheap addresses are cheap. 10:45:02 .monash? why did a university buy a gtld 10:46:11 I guess for BRAND PURPOSES. 10:46:57 Also you have to use all those tuition fees for something. 10:47:12 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.econ/IIjUodGrHXw/uWHIxu2-LqMJ 10:47:15 And if you pay employees too well, they'll get all uppity. 10:47:42 -!- realzies has joined. 10:47:58 i think we should start the #esoteric foundation llc just to get .jam made 10:49:02 oh man, .wang 10:49:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 10:49:51 <= Netsplit between *.net and *.split. Users quit: nisstyre, Frooxius, realzies 10:50:40 fizzie: The text on screen gets stored in memory too 10:50:48 So if you hit the right addresses, you will override that 10:50:58 It's two bytes per character 10:51:10 FreeFull: Yes, but it's not in a0000..affff. 10:51:16 FreeFull: It's in b8000..bffff. 10:51:30 (And b0000..b7fff is the monochrome video buffer place.) 10:52:02 I'm not sure if it's always in b8k or if it depends on which textmode you're in 10:52:26 Bike: For the record, Bond University has applied for .bond and La Trobe University has applied for .latrobe, in addition to .monash. Must be some kind of an Australian thing. 10:52:36 .fizzie 10:52:39 sunstroke, i bet 10:52:51 james.bond 11:00:47 The nice thing about the graphic mode is that no matter if you fuck up 11:00:51 It will look amazing 11:01:24 I don't think that's how it works 11:01:32 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19940612/DOS.png 11:01:36 DOESN'T IT? 11:01:40 It's full of staaaars 11:01:56 Just looking at it I am filled with wonderment 11:02:13 Eh 11:07:05 I'm pretty sure some little atari dude could have an epic adventure in there! 11:07:18 He's gonna find an amazing treasure that looks like a square 11:07:25 And battle enemies that also look like squares 11:14:00 Yes it's full of stars! 11:17:55 You just have to use your 11:17:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaSd2d5rwPE 11:22:06 Aaaah 11:22:11 I finally made my gay square 11:22:26 Though the code looks like shit 11:26:47 -!- SeeNoEvil has left. 11:48:21 You should make a tunnel now 11:50:02 tunnel? 11:53:23 > let ꙮ="multiocular! " in cycle ꙮ 11:53:24 "multiocular! multiocular! multiocular! multiocular! multiocular! multiocula... 11:53:42 Whaaat 11:53:55 prꙮblem? 11:54:39 cꙮnspiracy 11:54:52 (they're watching you) 11:55:06 That character does not actually display 11:55:15 not in my putty either 11:55:21 nor here 11:55:28 i copied it from the logs 11:55:32 but I can cut&paste it to firefox, for example. 11:56:18 and even if you can't see it, you *know* that THEY are watching. 11:56:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiocular_O 11:56:45 Oh god 11:57:13 `? multiocular o 11:57:14 multiocular o? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 11:57:27 `? ꙮ 11:57:28 wait a second, are there supposed to be 13 or 16 eyes? 11:57:28 ​ꙮ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 12:00:05 um it looks fine for me 12:00:45 it's lots of eyes, not sure if the exact number of eyes is significant 12:01:39 * oerjan learns that there are also binocular o, double monocular o, and monocular o 12:03:24 i recall from previous discussion that the unicode sample has a different number of eyes from the original manuscript ones. 12:04:37 the manuscript linked from wikipedia uses 16, but 13 is scary enough to me :) 12:04:45 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/a66e/index.htm has 7 while wikipedia has 10 12:04:54 my font has 8 12:05:06 ehm, 7 12:05:14 i have 10 at wikipedia and 7 at fileformat 12:05:33 must be no fun writing 12:05:49 also, i have 7 on irc 12:06:00 My font has 7 too 12:06:01 7 and 10 Ouch :) 12:06:11 myname: pretty sure wikipedia's is a picture. 12:06:38 I think the important thing is that it's more than two 12:06:40 2*6+1 ... yeah, that was embarassingly foolish. 12:06:40 well although it contains a character too. 12:07:51 I wonder if Unicode specifies what a codepoint should render as 12:12:09 http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UA640.pdf has 7 too 12:13:00 I have 9 on IRC 12:13:10 But font size also depends on DPI 12:14:56 -!- namaskar has joined. 12:15:35 Slereah__: http://i.imgur.com/Nlj97.png Do this, in x86 16-bit ASM 12:16:02 FireFly: I guess not, based on the proposal for adding those characters: https://web.archive.org/web/20131224125913/http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3194.pdf 12:17:10 FreeFull : Not quite there yet! 12:17:19 Although I have a friend who's an assembly expert 12:17:22 (their font uses 7; the manuscript scan uses 10, it's the same that wikipedia links to) 12:17:24 So I'm getting some tips from him 12:18:01 Slereah__: See if your friend can do it :D 12:18:05 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3397 < this site has some great examples, by the way 12:18:10 FreeFull : Dunno 12:18:25 But he did a port of Bubble Bobble for the Amstrad CPC 12:18:28 Pouet is nice 12:19:41 I like how the -ocular o's are essentially pictographic 12:20:14 "replace 'o' with this character if the word is derived from the stem meaning 'eye'" 12:22:07 hmm. can I set dosbox options on the command line without writing a .conf file ... 12:28:43 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qs62r/i_just_got_banned_from_my_favorite_restaurant_for/ meanwhile in /r/bitcoin 12:31:56 lol 12:32:35 ø: o is forbidden 12:32:39 "submitted 2 months ago" "meanwhile" (great story, anyhow) 12:34:01 FreeFull: it's something different, but give http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/magnet.tgz a try :) 12:35:31 int-e: That's rather cool 12:41:54 Oh. It's a bit more than 10 years old. I really should've dated those things. 12:47:17 And I see that I've commented the fpu code. (The comments show the contents of the FPU stack. Tracking that can be quite confusing.) 13:02:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:21:37 15:21 .. 15:41 13:21:50 I've got to stop using the IRC input line for short-term notes. 13:29:01 fizzie: I tend to just send them to the channel 13:29:09 that way if I need them in the future, I can find them in the log 13:31:07 Ah, but I won't need that one after 15:41 EET, so it's reasonably likely to still be in the input backscroll. 13:32:31 `addquote 15:21 .. 15:41 I've got to stop using the IRC input line for short-term notes. fizzie: I tend to just send them to the channel that way if I need them in the future, I can find them in the log 13:32:33 1165) 15:21 .. 15:41 I've got to stop using the IRC input line for short-term notes. fizzie: I tend to just send them to the channel that way if I need them in the future, I can find them in the log 13:33:03 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:35:23 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 13:37:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:44:06 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 13:50:14 hehe 13:59:02 Aha! `addquote must be for long term notes. 14:05:09 `quoe 14:05:10 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoe: not found 14:05:11 `quote 14:05:12 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. 14:10:34 `quote 42 14:10:35 42) If I ever made a game where you jabbed bears ... I'd call it jabbear. 14:15:20 `quote 0x2a 14:15:21 No output. 14:16:07 `quote 14:16:07 628) the point of a university is research and training new researchers. the point of the world is to enable this. 14:24:03 I like 628 14:24:38 :-) 14:27:48 `quote 14:27:48 456) Pythagoras was running away and he reached a field of beans, but he didn't want to step on them so he let those guys chasing him to kill him instead. 14:29:27 Oh bother 14:29:37 i made a clear screen function and now some shapes are disappearing! 14:30:28 * oerjan spots FreeFull making an account at the Complexity Zoo 14:31:14 someone asked wtf was up if you tried to click random page in that 14:31:32 answer: that's what a wiki turns out like if no one bothers to delete spam _ever_. 14:32:30 except on the publically facing pages, presumably. 14:33:01 behold https://complexityzoo.uwaterloo.ca/index.php?title=Special:AllPages&from=1000.000000Ree_Online_Facebook_Of_Sex_In_Australia_New_Zealand&to=Events_In_Cape_Town_Reviews_Tips 14:33:24 elliott: ^ hth 14:34:23 oerjan: I made an account because I wanted to get rid of the spam, but I'm not sure hwo 14:34:26 how* 14:34:37 You can just press the "random article" button and get spam 14:35:02 FreeFull: well given they're all spam-titled articles, you really need admin powers to delete properly. 14:35:36 you could blank them, but that doesn't really help with random article 14:36:44 and all the spam is too old to show up in recent changes. 14:37:21 chessbase makes me so angry sometimes. http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-new-challenging-chess-variant - who is this guy and why does chessbase give him a platform for his so-called "research"? 14:37:22 in fact the reason i noticed you was because you're one of the few things happening in the last month. 14:40:45 FreeFull: given the way the wiki is structured, a script to delete all orphan pages might work... 14:42:54 Maybe 14:43:14 callforjudgement: oh i hit an actual non-spam page on that wiki. i think i may have invented a variant of your brainfuck derivative/self-made game 14:43:32 oerjan: hmm 14:43:44 can you get admin rights and just delete the spam pages as you hit them? 14:43:46 what are you doing? visiting "random pages"? 14:43:51 int-e: yeah 14:44:08 on Esolang, you hit random page, score 1 negative point for each BF derivative, stop when you reach a language you made yourself 14:44:09 callforjudgement: i'm not even registered there, so i doubt they'd trust me. 14:44:22 (I've found that the wiki works fine if you use the dedicated index pages) 14:44:44 (the complexity zoo one) 14:45:07 it's a very low-volume wiki otherwise, so presumably there's no admin with actual time for spam maintenance. 14:45:10 callforjudgement: how close do I have to get to -\infty before I'm allowed to stop? 14:45:34 int-e: if you have trouble stopping, you go create some more non-BF-deriv esolangs 14:46:54 oh wait deleting orphans won't work, the real page i hit was one. 14:47:09 https://complexityzoo.uwaterloo.ca/STCON 14:49:00 btw the fact STCON is in LOGSPACE is the essence of a famous complexity theorem. 14:50:54 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:50:58 it seems most of the spam was added last spring 14:55:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:55:19 Couldn't one remove the spam pages based on some heuristic? Most of them (from a small random sample, anyway) seem to contain several long paragraphs and no wiki markup 15:00:23 another possibility is to manually mark all non-spam pages 15:00:25 then delete the rest 15:01:35 ... https://complexityzoo.uwaterloo.ca/Strategies_To_Use_SEO ... 15:03:03 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:15:21 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 15:19:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:20:12 -!- augur has joined. 15:21:34 -!- augur_ has joined. 15:21:53 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:32:33 hehe, "score 1 negative point for each BF derivative, stop when you reach a language you made yourself" 15:32:36 nice 15:32:43 do you get positive score for anything? 15:51:03 -!- tromp has joined. 15:52:01 I've landed on an equal amount of brainfuck derivatives and brainfuck implementations thus far 15:56:17 Does brainfuck count as a brainfuck derivative for the purposes of this game 15:57:49 Taneb: what if you made a bf derivate? do you stop? do you score -1? both? 15:58:18 wouldn't it be best to make the whole wiki full of bf derivates to get better scores? 15:59:24 you are more likely to stop while others are more likely to get -1 16:02:19 pretty sure being a BF derivative should have precedence 16:03:22 My score: -7 or -8 depending on whether brainfuck counts 16:06:53 -!- a_ergus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:08:35 -!- namaskar has joined. 16:09:14 ...the wiki has some pretty weird 'languages' 16:09:26 Such as http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yo 16:15:02 i do find German (esolang) pretty stupid 16:51:40 Taneb: brainfuck does not count. it has seniority. 16:52:39 i think the game should be "-1 for every language that has not a single creative idea in it" just to be sure 16:52:51 -!- Froox has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 16:53:05 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:53:11 because some brinfuck "derivatives" are awesome, while some non-bf-derivs are the worst 16:54:37 like, German 16:59:34 machine code derivative? yeah that's pretty low 16:59:54 and the joke isn't even funny! 17:00:03 and bier is spelled wrong 17:02:27 I see. 'cat' is a compiler for the 'Cat' language, in the spirit of 'German'. 17:05:37 some ninja twins levels are annoying ... too many hidden items 17:21:23 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 18:11:45 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:14:32 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 18:16:18 -!- ter2 has joined. 18:16:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:16:39 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 18:19:41 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:25:10 -!- ter2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:25:26 -!- ter2 has joined. 18:29:49 -!- ter2 has changed nick to tertu. 18:42:38 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:42:55 -!- a_ergus has joined. 18:49:45 -!- a_ergus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:54:17 -!- qlkzy has left. 18:54:28 -!- qlkzy has joined. 18:54:28 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 18:55:27 -!- qlkzy has joined. 18:57:27 -!- qlkzy has left. 19:28:20 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:35:03 How does the HackEgo BFJoust hill score? 19:37:55 Taneb: it's explained on gregor's bfjoust hill page 19:38:32 the short answer is "it's kind of stupid" 19:38:37 k 19:38:54 the long answer is "i implemented a better scoring system, and Gregor never incorporated it" 19:39:08 How does yours work? 19:41:18 just before i got up i imagined that "coop" was "copoop" 19:42:46 copooperation 19:44:49 copoop= 10% of everything? 19:46:55 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:47:14 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:47:57 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:48:29 -!- tromp has joined. 19:50:18 http://www.coingen.io/ finally 19:51:42 can i invest in Bikeoin yet 19:51:56 you could create bikeoin 19:52:42 "the ultimate invest"ment 19:52:55 http://coingen.io/status.html 19:53:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:53:17 -!- namaskar has joined. 19:53:41 should i invest in fraudcoin? or maybe hackernewscoin? 19:53:51 i think i'll invest in _this_site_is_a_scam_dont_send_your_bitcoins_to_coingen_ 19:54:08 fraudcoin sounds legit 19:54:11 i'm betting on unusablecoin 19:54:15 take it from the resident expert 19:54:56 "tuplipcoin"? 19:55:08 probably a misspelling of "tulip"? 19:55:12 referring to tulip mania 19:55:17 I figured that might be it 19:55:24 still seems silly to typo your coin name! 19:55:37 or i could branch out to "fourchan" or "adolfhitler" 19:56:02 obamacoin brings change 19:56:33 i think i have too much hair 19:56:41 there are remedies to that 19:56:43 I've heard 19:57:13 last time i removed my hair i got a sunburn 19:57:16 gotta be careful 20:02:43 You should remove your hair and move to Finland. 20:03:23 why finland 20:03:30 There’s no sun here. 20:03:44 p. sure it was sunny last time i was there 20:03:53 and ~30° in helsinki 20:05:13 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:13:46 -!- tromp has joined. 20:27:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:39:48 I can attest to there being no sun visible in the sky here at this moment. 20:40:22 shachaf, there won't be any sun here from 7:30 PM on the 20th of February! 20:44:10 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:49:14 -!- conehead has joined. 21:02:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:08:28 -!- yorick has joined. 21:09:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:19:41 tromp posted about his cuckoo project http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/1wtn6d/cuckoo_cycle_a_memoryhard_proofofwork_system/ 21:26:11 gah i hate that pdfs on github won't open in the browser 21:26:24 you must pick the raw version 21:26:32 i _did_ pick the raw version. 21:26:35 or i must figure out how to publish them on github pages 21:27:02 it insists on opening it outside, which means the awful metro interface. 21:27:06 oh, i never unsdersood why some pdfs are downloaded and other are shown in browser 21:27:29 btw, i'm rewriting the paper as we speak 21:27:42 expect a new version in 5 mins 21:30:29 oh, i never unsdersood why some pdfs are downloaded and other are shown in browser 21:30:39 I'm guessing the 'raw' feature sends the file as application/octet-stream 21:30:42 firefox sometimes opens text files as a download 21:31:36 FireFly: that would do it i guess :( 21:33:11 there is also Content-disposition: attachment 21:33:52 Help I've written a function that computes the fibonacci sequence using only identifiers defined in the lens library 21:33:57 ok, oerjan, new version pushed 21:34:02 Taneb: :D 21:34:07 Taneb: including operators? 21:34:20 view curried (view simple) (sumOf ignored (&)) (productOf ignored (&)) ^.. over mapped (iterated ((over mapped (view flipped (mapped %~) (sumOf both ^. curried)) (over mapped (mapped %~) (view simple ^. curried))) ^. flipped & over mapped (perform (acts&mapped%~acts)) & review curried)) _1 21:34:32 oerjan, including operators 21:34:55 Taneb++ 21:36:15 Getting rid of (.) was easy. Getting rid of (,) was less so 21:40:44 > view curried (view simple) (sumOf ignored (&)) (productOf ignored 21:40:44 (&)) ^.. over mapped (iterated ((over mapped (view flipped 21:40:44 (mapped %~) (sumOf both ^. curried)) (over mapped (mapped %~) 21:40:44 (view simple ^. curried))) ^. flipped & over mapped (perform 21:40:44 (acts&mapped%~acts)) & review curried)) _1 21:40:45 :1:66: 21:40:45 parse error (possibly incorrect indentation or mismatched brackets) 21:40:55 wtf 21:41:31 oh right 21:41:48 > view curried (view simple) (sumOf ignored (&)) (productOf ignored (&)) ^.. over mapped (iterated ((over mapped (view flipped (mapped %~) (sumOf both ^. curried)) (over mapped (mapped %~) (view simple ^. curried))) ^. flipped & over mapped (perform (acts&mapped%~acts)) & review curried)) _1 21:41:49 [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,... 21:43:05 lol 21:45:25 O_o 21:46:40 * oerjan increase paste_detect_time to 10msecs 21:46:42 *+s 21:51:29 So lenticular 21:52:30 What does paste_detect_time mean? 21:53:00 Phantom_Hoover: You can cause it to display the text by adding "view-source:" at the beginning of the URL. 21:53:36 It's actually pretty simple 21:53:54 zzo38: how long irssi waits after a line before deciding it's not part of a larger paste 21:54:07 Essentially "iterate (\(a,b) -> (b, a+b)) (0,1)" 21:55:24 If only terminal emulators and shell applications would support bracketed-paste... 21:57:13 :t swapped 21:57:14 (Functor f, Profunctor p1, Swapped p) => p1 (p b a) (f (p d c)) -> p1 (p a b) (f (p c d)) 21:57:18 Oh hey, weechat supports bracketed-paste if one enables an option 21:57:46 Oh man, I forgot about swapped 21:58:01 i thought it sounded like something you might have used 21:58:35 oerjan: What does it do with such a decision? 21:58:57 FireFly: What does bracketed-paste mean? 21:59:18 It's a terminal mode where pastes are prefixed and suffixed by escape sequences 21:59:59 Which would be useful if it was actually a thing, since it'd mean IRC clients and text editors wouldn't have to guess based on timing and heuristics if something was pasted or typed 22:00:24 zzo38: if it detects it's a paste, it will (1) warn you if it's many lines. (2) join wrapping lines if it looks like it has been copied from the irssi window. 22:00:46 http://www.xfree86.org/current/ctlseqs.html#Bracketed%20Paste%20Mode 22:00:55 What escape sequences? Is it the START OF TEXT and END OF TEXT control characters? 22:00:58 in particular, (2) failed for me above because it didn't detect it as a paste, which is why i increased it. 22:01:08 No, it's CSI-prefixed sequences 22:01:36 i.e. either ESC [ 200 ~ or \x9B 200 ~ depending on whether 7-bit or 8-bit CSI is set 22:01:59 OK 22:02:17 Hey folks 22:02:26 If I try to declare some variable in x86 22:02:27 Like 22:02:28 square2 dw 0x0064, 0x0064, 0x0016 22:02:35 It makes my program fuck up 22:02:38 Why is this 22:04:36 Slereah_: What assembler and what program? 22:05:35 FASM 22:05:39 And the program is... 22:05:52 I do not know how to program in FASM. 22:06:03 http://pastebin.com/XSMwb0aA 22:06:19 As soon as I put that declaration, bam 22:06:26 It assembles fine, but it does not work 22:06:48 Are you crossing a segment boundary? 22:07:01 Not that I'm aware 22:07:12 It works without the declaration, and does not with it 22:07:26 I don't think the assembler would put it in another segment 22:07:29 Plus I don't even call it 22:07:49 Move it to the end of the program. 22:08:12 Hm, it works 22:08:14 Otherwise it try to execute them as instructions 22:08:19 Thanks! 22:09:05 The program has to start at 0x0100 which is also beginning of the file, and the part before that is a PSP (at least, in DOS this is how it works). 22:09:33 Man I don't want a playstation in my program 22:10:12 FireFly: does anybody use 8-bit CSI? 22:10:54 I think several terminal emulators support it 22:10:59 kmc: I think Linux accepts it? 22:11:13 yeah but do any common programs send such sequences, I mean 22:11:20 I don't know of any. 22:11:31 Wouldn't that just depend on your terminfo entry? 22:11:36 (For many programs, anyway.) 22:12:07 and in a UTF-8 terminal do you actually send \xC2 \x9B ? 22:12:48 That I don't know; I don't use the UTF-8 terminal mode. 22:12:56 I think a shell application has to send an escape sequence to tell the terminal to change to 8-bit CSI, or something 22:12:58 I don't know 22:13:14 One benefit of using the 8-bit CSI would be to disambiguate it from 22:13:17 in e.g. vim 22:13:28 relying on timing sucks. 22:13:29 I think ECMA-48 codes are defined in terms of codepoints and not bytes for a Unicode terminal 22:13:31 I think the terminal emulator built-in to Linux automatically allows 8-bit CSI though 22:15:18 Slereah_: you may have assembler directives like .text and .data that let you switch between code and data sections, and the assembler/linker will arrange for each of code and data to be contiguous in memory 22:15:34 so that way you can declare your variables near where they will be used, rather than at the end of the file 22:16:44 Ah, http://www.vt100.net/docs/vt510-rm/S8C1T was the escape sequence I meant 22:16:57 also important because memory for storing code isn't writeable on some platforms (like microcontrollers, or any OS enforcing that as a security measure) 22:18:18 FireFly: That's for terminal-to-host talk, though. I don't think you need to do that if it's the host sending 8-bit C1 control characters. 22:18:32 FireFly: (Just if you want the terminal to use them too.) 22:19:44 Yeah, that's probably true 22:20:03 the bracketed-paste case mentioned earlier would be terminal-to-host though 22:20:36 Right. (I wasn't reading at that point.) 22:21:08 How are interest rates calculated in case of leap years? 22:21:10 There was a thing that was using the 8-bit CSI that I came across the other year, but I've entirely forgotten what it was about. 22:33:02 zzo38: i very vaguely thought all months are treated as 30 days for the purpose 22:33:24 I believe there's a large number of different, incompatible conventions. 22:33:32 At least I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. 22:34:01 The 30/360 thing certainly is a thing that happens in some financial contexts, though. 22:34:13 https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t31/1655773_636614729738716_1020538943_o.jpg 22:34:34 I think the way it should be done is using a tropical year rather than a calendar year, and using signs instead of months. You would then adjust these results into actual business days based on the timezone. 22:34:55 astrological signs? 22:35:10 (Such a thing is still out if 30/360 but not based on the calendar) 22:35:18 Bike: Yes. One sign = 30 degrees 22:35:28 nortti: very secure password 22:35:54 oerjan: It has lowercase letters, uppercase letters, digits AND a special character. 22:36:05 You couldn't ask for more. 22:40:57 goddamn 22:41:06 My worst enemy in assembly is bits of code I left around 22:41:12 And forgot to delete 22:41:36 zombie code 22:42:37 ghost code 22:43:51 GH-GH-GH-GH-GHOST??? 22:53:33 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 22:57:07 Are there some programs to trace the program to figure out which codes won't ever be used? 23:00:43 won't ever? isn't that a statically determinable property 23:01:10 Depending on the programming language it might be, I think. 23:01:20 (And depending on the program; sometimes it might not be) 23:02:10 Bike: like most things, it sometimes requires solving the halting problem. 23:02:26 Yes, that is what I meant, for the second thing. 23:02:39 bah i say 23:02:57 Compilers certainly do dead code elimination; I'm sure there are some standalone analysis tools too. Though the "bits of code left around" problem probably involves code that actually does get executed, just shouldn't. 23:03:39 Also, if the program is already compiled, it is different, anyways. 23:09:57 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:17:27 Do you like orthogonal instruction sets? 23:25:54 I would think it is good idea to have instead of an immediate addressing mode, to use PC post-increment; and instead of a jump instruction just have a move to PC instruction. 23:27:03 Does any CPU instruction set actually have PHI instructions, or is that only used in compilers? 23:38:13 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:39:52 -!- hogeyui has joined. 23:40:36 I do have an idea about how to implement a hardware PHI instruction: Make branch instructions to write the address of what would be next instruction as if it didn't branch to one register, and the actual next instruction address (regardless if it branch or not) to another register, and then the PHI instruction is a conditional move where the condition is both of these two mentioned registers have the same value. 23:42:14 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:44:58 -!- conehead has joined. 23:45:35 -!- realzies has quit (Quit: realzies). 23:47:48 -!- namaskar has joined. 23:47:56 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:54:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:59:40 -!- realzies has joined. 2014-02-03: 00:13:53 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:17:19 this .gif makes a good point http://www.mu6.com/Pascal_Triangle/Extended_Pascal_400.gif 00:19:10 What kind of good point? 00:21:04 hard to say 00:21:40 Also, I notice it says "Rights under GNU" (I can't actually read it, but it looks like that) at the bottom. 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Broken pipe). 02:34:54 -!- int-e has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 02:35:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:38:41 -!- Sgeo has quit (Excess Flood). 02:40:45 -!- olsner has joined. 02:41:35 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:42:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:42:43 -!- ski has joined. 02:46:06 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:46:23 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:55:16 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:10:12 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:10:15 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:12:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:12:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:15:11 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:15:40 -!- lambdabot has joined. 03:18:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:21:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:23:56 zzo38: yes. lots of failures. cloaks are offline. 03:25:49 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:26:01 -!- ski has joined. 03:26:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:33:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:34:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 03:34:12 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 03:43:26 -!- kmc has joined. 03:45:11 > chat.freenode.net has address 127.0.0.1 03:45:42 * kmc got here by connecting directly to wolfe.freenode.net 03:45:47 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:45:48 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:45:48 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:45:55 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 03:45:55 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:46:45 yeah, apparently part of their anti-DDOS measures 03:49:11 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:49:12 -!- Zuu has joined. 03:57:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:58:11 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:58:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:58:13 -!- atehwa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:59:35 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split). 04:07:27 -!- conehead has joined. 04:08:30 So is it working a bit better now, it is possible to read each other's message by now OK? 04:08:38 -!- Zuu has joined. 04:09:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 564 seconds). 04:09:44 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 564 seconds). 04:10:05 -!- realzies has joined. 04:10:51 -!- atehwa has joined. 04:12:35 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:12:42 -!- realzies has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 04:15:25 -!- int-e has joined. 04:16:51 -!- polytone has joined. 04:17:18 -!- Vorpal has quit (Excess Flood). 04:17:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:18:35 -!- Zuu has changed nick to 14WAB00L3. 04:18:35 -!- Zuu has joined. 04:21:08 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 04:21:08 -!- 14WAB00L3 has quit (*.net *.split). 04:22:31 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 04:23:37 -!- mysanthrop has changed nick to myname. 04:26:27 zzo38: you are SO zzoic 04:26:52 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:28:17 -!- myname has changed nick to 21WACB7ED. 04:30:08 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 04:30:08 -!- olsner has joined. 04:30:08 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*.split). 10:22:44 -!- CADD has quit (*.net *.split). 10:22:45 -!- iamcal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:22:45 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (*.net *.split). 10:22:46 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 10:22:46 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:28:37 -!- hogeyui__ has joined. 10:29:57 -!- aloril has joined. 10:30:36 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 10:30:45 -!- quintopi1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:35:15 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:39:09 -!- Gracenotes_ has quit (*.net *.split). 10:45:40 -!- itsy has joined. 10:52:45 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 10:53:48 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:58:27 Apparently I can't leave the house because there's an armed siege :-( 11:03:59 -!- clog has joined. 11:04:13 -!- clog_ has joined. 11:10:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:12:17 -!- Vorpal has joined. 11:12:35 -!- Vorpal has quit (Excess Flood). 11:12:43 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:12:50 -!- myndzi has joined. 11:18:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:21:31 -!- clog_ has quit (Ping timeout: 293 seconds). 11:21:58 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:23:22 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:32:56 itsy: what? 11:35:00 -!- myndzi has joined. 11:35:24 -!- glogbackup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:35:40 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:35:52 -!- jconn has joined. 11:36:08 -!- myndzi has joined. 11:38:34 b_jonas: also, I think it might rain... 11:38:45 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:40:20 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:40:52 I don't really know the details. It's probably just a guy who won't answer the door to the police, so they send in the armed police to intimidate him. 11:41:07 I see 11:43:41 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 259 seconds). 11:48:56 -!- samebchase has joined. 11:53:39 -!- heroux has joined. 12:01:55 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 12:01:55 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 12:04:49 -!- samebchase has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 12:04:54 -!- heroux has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 12:09:56 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:13:57 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:13:58 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 12:13:58 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 12:22:21 -!- Vorpal has joined. 12:22:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:26:54 -!- nortti has joined. 12:27:23 -!- heroux has joined. 12:29:03 -!- quintopia has joined. 12:29:53 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 12:29:53 -!- quintopia has joined. 12:31:24 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 12:42:20 -!- variable has joined. 12:42:55 -!- variable has changed nick to Guest40316. 12:43:05 -!- Guest40316 has quit (Changing host). 12:43:05 -!- Guest40316 has joined. 12:43:11 -!- nortti has joined. 12:59:42 -!- Guest25039 has changed nick to Zuu. 13:03:10 -!- Zuu has changed nick to Guest63185. 13:06:13 -!- Guest63185 has quit (Changing host). 13:06:14 -!- Guest63185 has joined. 13:14:00 -!- conehead__ has joined. 13:14:00 -!- CADD has joined. 13:14:00 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 13:14:00 -!- upgrayeddd has joined. 13:18:14 -!- kmc has joined. 13:25:28 -!- realzies has joined. 13:26:13 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:26:46 -!- Guest63185 has changed nick to Zuu. 13:28:23 -!- realzies has quit (Changing host). 13:28:23 -!- realzies has joined. 13:34:08 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:34:09 -!- boily has joined. 13:34:36 good February morning! 13:35:25 Good Febreze afternoon. 13:36:06 ~metar ENVA 13:36:07 ENVA 031320Z VRB04KT CAVOK 08/M03 Q1010 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 21014KT 13:36:09 were there any wisdom-additions during the weekend? 13:36:11 ~metar CYUL 13:36:12 CYUL 031300Z 02006KT 15SM OVC240 M12/M16 A3029 RMK CI8 SLP261 13:36:36 much warm, still dry 13:36:39 It's a warm again here. 13:36:43 ~metar EFHK 13:37:20 No met-ar for me. 13:38:29 boily: if we're to believe the repository, there were no changes for 6 days, until just a few hours ago (not wisdom related). 13:38:41 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:38:41 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:39:00 however the browser was broken, so whether it's actually up-to-date i dunno... 13:39:09 oh hm 13:39:16 i _distinctly_ recall addquoting. 13:39:30 I think I broke metasepia and boily. :/ 13:39:39 oops 13:39:50 `run allquotes | tail -1 13:40:04 (There's also no HackEgo.) 13:40:08 oops 13:40:42 And fungot's not here, either. (!) 13:40:43 Gregor`: ALL IS LOST 13:40:51 It's a bad day for bots. 13:40:54 EgoBot: WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE 13:41:40 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:42:47 -!- fungot has joined. 13:42:50 -!- boily has joined. 13:43:18 -!- boily-temp has joined. 13:43:29 * boily-temp *grmbls* 13:43:39 ah! 13:43:44 finally connected. 13:43:48 -!- boily-temp has quit (Client Quit). 13:43:59 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:44:06 apparently freenode has SSL troubles this morning. 13:44:44 It has all kinds of troubles. 13:44:57 ~metar EFHK 13:44:58 EFHK 031320Z 19007KT 0800 R04R/P1500N R15/1300N R22L/P1500N R04L/P1500D FZFG VV002 M00/M01 Q1021 NOSIG 13:45:02 That's better. 13:45:13 Though it looks different that what it usually does. 13:46:00 oh, the Mythic Negative Cow Club! 13:46:07 boily: i think Gregor`'s moving of hackego is not going well, and the repository browser is missing at least one quote i _know_ i added yesterday. 13:46:36 also hackego is not present. 13:47:12 boily: does temperature have the buddha nature? 13:47:22 http://sprunge.us/RYHN they must've changed something. 13:48:08 Added them runways, at least. 13:48:38 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 13:48:38 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:48:38 I noticed his screaming absence from the channel. 13:48:40 oerjan: mü. 13:49:21 i have no mü but i must scream 13:52:30 -!- Taneb has joined. 13:57:35 I thought it was spelled mū, maybe I'm wrong though 13:58:24 boily: -mist- [As Globa As I Can Notice] Sorry folk! We're currently having the DDOS. I guess it will stop at some point. We do not have any information for you about it at this time. Have a cup of tea, or watch TV for a while until it blows over. 13:59:10 what if it NEVER STOPS 14:00:56 then the guess is wrong 14:01:13 figures 14:01:29 the Mandarin versions are either “wú” or “mó”, Cantonese “mou4” and Japanese “mu”. I felt the #Esöteric version would have none other than a nice diæ̈resis. 14:02:43 i sëe 14:03:08 I don't think you can diaeresis a single vowel 14:03:15 at least, not meaningfully 14:03:54 you are technically correct, the best kind of correct 14:04:43 callforjudgement: t. tdh. 14:04:56 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:04:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:06:03 -!- heroux has joined. 14:06:52 -!- augur__ has changed nick to augur. 14:08:16 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 14:08:16 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 14:08:36 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 14:12:53 -!- nortti has joined. 14:13:21 * boily test, test, test, test, retest, test again... 14:13:22 hm. I have serious multi-minute lag. let's reconnect... 14:13:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 14:14:09 What's up with freenode today? 14:14:55 itsy: freenode is feeling ill 14:15:35 -!- boily has joined. 14:15:45 I heard on #haskell that there was/is? a DDOS attack on Freenode. 14:16:37 there still is. 14:18:01 -!- lonbrik has joined. 14:18:01 there always is. 14:18:06 -!- lonbrik has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 14:18:56 stupid idea: if freenode has DoS problems, can it deploy its own botnet to DDoS the DoSsers? 14:19:11 No. 14:19:20 boily: how would that help? 14:19:34 The whole point of DDoS is that there are many attackers and few targets. 14:19:47 indeed. 14:20:03 * boily maplerases the stupid idea. 14:20:50 Earlier today chat.freenode.net completely refused my connection attempts 14:20:57 So yeah, feeling quite ill I bleieve 14:21:18 -!- nortti_ has joined. 14:21:18 Pretend I know how to sple 14:21:50 -!- nortti has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:22:00 fungot: any comment on the bot uprising that we have witnessed today? 14:22:01 FireFly: where do things go faster if you shake it up a little bit fnord, like fnord 14:22:03 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:22:03 FireFly: chat.freenode.net was redirected to localhost, i saw in the logs 14:22:12 -!- Guest40316 has quit (Excess Flood). 14:22:15 Oh, that explains it 14:22:33 oh. dns cache poisoning? nasty. 14:22:39 fungot: well, shaking up freenode is bad, mkay? 14:22:40 FireFly: oh, cool. i like fnord. 14:22:49 int-e: i thought it was a countermeasure, actually 14:22:58 hmm. 14:23:04 -!- nortti_ has changed nick to nortti. 14:23:10 -!- nortti has quit (Read error: Permission denied). 14:23:20 could be, but then it's an unpleasant one with lots of collateral damage. 14:24:14 -!- nortti has joined. 14:26:19 -!- nortti_ has joined. 14:28:39 -!- nortti_ has quit (Client Quit). 14:28:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds). 14:29:41 * boily sings a bardic song to entertain Freenode and give it buffs... “I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay ♪” 14:30:20 "Bluff Bluff Bluff the Stupid DOSsers..." 14:31:04 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 14:33:26 They called it a countermeasure. 14:34:15 "We're currently experiencing what appears to be a DOS attack against our servers. Some servers are offline, and local IPs appear in the rotation, meaning that some connections will fail." says the topic of #freenode. 14:35:09 -!- tromp has joined. 14:42:01 I don't get why someone would want to DOS freenode 14:42:13 or poison DNS caches to point them at localhost rather than somewhere more interesting 14:43:42 you're on #esoteric and you don't understand why people do pointless stuff? 14:43:58 seriously 14:44:57 callforjudgement: it's because they HATE OUR FREEDOM hth 14:45:18 b_jonas: I don't consider the (ontopic) work #esoteric does pointless 14:45:30 I consider it potentially pointful just with a really low success chance 14:45:45 and, well, it earned me enough money to live on for a year, so it was worthwhile for me at least 14:45:47 b_jonas: everything we do ain't pointless. it's all part of a Grand Scheme. (I think. maybe. perhaps. well, in my fantasies, at least, so that's a start.) 14:46:59 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 14:47:14 Speaking of pointless things, what happened with trying to find the midpoint of #esoteric? 14:47:15 More importantly, esoteric programming languages don't actively hurt anybody. 14:47:34 int-e: even brainfuck derivatives? 14:47:44 FireFly: ignorance is bliss, in that case. 14:47:46 FireFly: somewhere inside the world, I think 14:51:18 FireFly: It's not like esoteric language creators go around taking hostages and forcing people to use the languages. At least I'd like to believe that. 14:57:26 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 249 seconds). 14:57:38 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 298 seconds). 15:02:36 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:05:41 -!- tromp has joined. 15:06:58 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:09:39 -!- Sorella has quit (Changing host). 15:09:40 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:16:15 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 15:16:15 -!- Vorpal has joined. 15:20:36 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds). 15:20:55 -!- nycs has joined. 15:38:15 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:40:34 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:40:40 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:40:49 -!- tromp has joined. 15:40:53 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:41:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:41:32 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:41:47 -!- augur has joined. 15:46:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:48:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:49:51 TIL: When you buy stuff for $2 or so from ebay, what you get might not always be of high quality. 15:55:26 it wasn't a live bobcat, was it? 15:56:09 imho, a live bobcat for 2$ is nice. lots of meat! 15:56:29 (hopefully the bobcat's. I have an emotional attachment to mine.) 15:57:36 -!- clog has joined. 15:59:31 * quintopia attaches electrodes int-e 15:59:49 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 15:59:50 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 15:59:51 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 16:00:24 Go write a Spiral program. Every minute you wait, I turn up the voltage. 16:01:48 It was a 52-to-58 mm "step-up" ring, for attaching filters to a camera lens. 16:02:10 Except it's got a ding in it, so it's no longer circular and the threads are all wonky, so you can't actually, you know, attach it to a lens. 16:02:48 Curiously, the envelope doesn't have any scratches, so perhaps it was pre-dinged before postage. 16:03:19 (I like the word "ding".) 16:07:13 hmm can you build a spike pit under the seller's living room? 16:10:38 That doesn't sound quite feasible. 16:11:16 -!- realzies has joined. 16:11:16 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:11:16 -!- EgoBot has joined. 16:11:38 perhaps not, but it does sound like a lot of fun 16:14:21 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:15:32 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:17:09 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140203-ding.jpg <- see 16:22:08 -!- realzies has changed nick to Guest73899. 16:26:51 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:27:13 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 16:36:32 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 16:36:33 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 16:52:53 -!- quintopia has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 16:52:54 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:52:55 quinthellopia. 17:00:50 -!- tromp has joined. 17:00:51 -!- augur has joined. 17:00:52 -!- Guest73899 has changed nick to realzies. 17:00:57 -!- quintopia has joined. 17:00:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:01:15 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 17:01:23 -!- realzies has changed nick to Guest68421. 17:01:31 -!- augur has joined. 17:02:13 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 17:02:13 -!- quintopia has joined. 17:03:41 -!- Guest68421 has quit (Changing host). 17:03:41 -!- Guest68421 has joined. 17:06:29 -!- jconn has joined. 17:13:28 The 6502 instruction set has NOP immediate where STA immediate might logically fit. 17:14:09 NOP immediate? 17:14:28 So essentially jump-over-the-next-byte? 17:14:53 -!- augur has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 17:15:39 I don't understand the IA-32 reference :( "02 /r ADD r8,r/m8" ← I don't understand what /r there signifies 17:15:58 FireFly: Yes, that is what NOP immediate does. 17:16:29 Seems weird to me for a NOP opcode to take an operand 17:17:11 FireFly: x86 has nops with operands. 17:17:43 FireFly: It's an easy way to make different-length nops if you have all kinds of addressing modes and such that can end up with operands of different sizes. 17:17:47 Only some of the NOP opcodes take operands; some don't. 17:18:24 They are all the same speed though. 17:18:43 Ah 17:18:52 The basic 0x90 NOP doesn't; the 0F 1F /0 takes a r/m16 or r/m32 operand, depending on operand size. 17:19:24 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:20:22 You can make a nop of any size from 1 to 9 bytes (and possibly above, but that's where the table in the manual stops) with those two, by selecting the proper operands and prefixes. 17:24:59 6502 also has NOP with different addressing modes, all of which are loads I think, and take the same time as other loads of those addressing modes but don't affect any flags or registers. It is also possible to use longer instructions that act similar to shorter ones and are just as fast too, for example ALR #$FF should be like LSR A but longer in case you need to change the instruction alignment or something like that. 17:28:18 -!- Guest68421 has changed nick to realzies. 17:31:50 zzo38: modern x86 also has lots of different nops nowadays, with different addressing modes, 17:32:16 and conflicting statements in the intel vs amd optimization guides on which nops are best to use for padding (seriously) 17:32:48 Can you tell GCC which ones to use? 17:32:50 mind you, they can be conflicting, that only means one is better to use on intel cpus and the other are better on amd cpus, but it's still funny 17:33:34 zzo38: possibly. there's an interface at least for telling what cpu to optimize for, whether it will affect these nops I can't tell 17:33:59 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:34:02 zzo38: -mtune=something 17:34:50 now I sort-of want to make an esolang entirely based around NOPs with side effects 17:34:59 these don't have side effects 17:35:26 but it's unclear what the distinction is between a NOP with a side effect, and a command 17:35:28 there are plenty of strange instructions that do have side effects as well of course 17:35:46 btw, how would you classify x86's "LEA" instruction? 17:35:57 classify in what way? 17:36:02 it's basically just "use the address calculation code to do arithmetic" 17:36:07 b_jonas: not sure 17:36:13 it feels a bit like a NOP in some ways 17:36:21 The NOPs in 6502 do load the data they are pointing to, but then ignore it. 17:36:24 given that it calculates an address, then does nothing with the memory it points to 17:36:39 but it changes a register! 17:36:45 I can imagine that LEA in x86 loaded the address it pointed to once, but it certainly doesn't do so nowadays 17:37:00 there are some prefetch instructions that you can think of as noops with side effects to optimize something later if you want such things 17:39:11 then every cpu has a few such instructions that are sort of nops in that you can insert them anywhere without breaking the program, but not necessarily _remove_ them from a program without breaking it; or the reverse, ones you can remove from any program without breaking it but you can't just add them without breaking something. 17:39:19 those are funny 17:40:23 well, every modern cpu at least 17:42:43 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:46:50 callforjudgement: reading from memory can have side effects, so I would guess not 17:47:24 hmm, I liked my mentally confused model of x86 history in which the A20 line reset the processor 17:47:36 callforjudgement: I very much doubt it ever did that; memory mapped IO is quite old. Memory areas not being present were the norm, and such memory access is abysmally slow. 17:47:54 (lea, accessing memory) 17:47:55 Which addresses on PC have side effects for reading? 17:48:03 -!- augur has joined. 17:48:59 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:49:18 zzo38: I don't know of any on PC but it is possible to build an x86 system with such addresses, anyway 17:49:53 also accesses may fail due to segment limits or paging 17:50:12 kmc: exactly, and x86 even explicitly supports that because it lets you configure memory areas to like five crazy modes telling how much caching and pre-reading etc the cpu can do, 17:50:28 I expect that even reading CGA memory caused grainy screens. 17:50:29 -!- clog has joined. 17:50:35 with the normal mode being used for ram which the cpu can assume works like ram, and crazier modes used for memory-mapped io 17:55:38 -!- jix has joined. 17:56:26 Hmm. Ok, the 486 introduced on-die caches, so that's when things became really interesting. (Some 386 boards had CPU-external caches and a couple of 386 clones had on-die ones. I didn't know that.) 18:00:16 -!- Bike has joined. 18:00:28 huh? didn't all 386s have some on-die caches already? 18:01:30 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 18:01:31 -!- sebbu has joined. 18:02:36 No. The 386 had a 16 bytes prefetch queue for instructions though, which visibly violated memory ordering (writing to the next instruction would not affect execution). 18:03:26 so it had off-die caches? did those run on the same clock cycle as the cpu? 18:03:33 or at least did some of them run that way? 18:03:52 Probably. I never had one of those. 18:04:20 (I had a 386 once but without additional caches.) 18:04:21 as for just prefetching instructions, well sure, wasn't that like started with the 6502? 18:05:48 but what if someone jumps to a memory-mapped address, but there's an interrupt on the same cycle, then the interrupt handler rewrites the return address on the stack? 18:06:44 There were only two innovations on the 486: 1) including FPU and 2) adding a cache, both on the same die. Oh, and selling broken chips; AFAIR, early 486SX were 486DX with broken (and disabled) FPU; and some early 487 were actually fully functional 486. 18:07:05 fungot: do I exist now? 18:07:05 boily: neither " studly" nor " fnord fnord 18:07:24 fungot: good enough for me. 18:07:24 boily: old-style let ( which you're considering calling with). 18:07:41 fungot: indeed, I consider calling the Classical Let. 18:07:41 boily: that is more fnord then scheme, and math. i guess it's implementable, and that is? :p 18:08:14 fungot: the Old Let of Yore has been implemented ages ago, although with a little bit less fnord. 18:08:14 boily: argument checking or a check type? fnord 18:08:30 fungot: argument. type systems weren't as developped as they are now. 18:09:20 -!- metasepia has joined. 18:09:41 int-e: no way! the 486 introduced the cmpxchg instruction, which counts as an innovation to me. 18:10:05 b_jonas: oh! right, fair enough. 18:10:36 didn't they introduce a few more instructions too? those probably aren't really innovations like cmpxchg, just optimization stuff, but I wonder now 18:10:49 b_jonas: is that atomic? 18:10:56 callforjudgement: yes 18:11:05 (and how do you determine whether it is or not, on a single-core processor? interrupt handlers?0 18:11:09 callforjudgement: it's for atomic test and set 18:11:15 callforjudgement: yes, inteerrupt handlers 18:11:33 I know why a cmpxchg instruction would normally want to be atomic 18:11:35 (Though cmpxchg is something that doesn't work very well without caching infrastructure. the CPU has to announce that it owns a small part of memory (a cache line) exclusively, and the rest of the system has to respect that.) 18:11:43 callforjudgement: it matters even for single cpu, because an interrupte can cause a task switch to another process which could observe an inconsistent state 18:12:25 Lock cycles did the same before, but they were expensive. (xchg has always been atomic.) 18:12:28 -!- variable has joined. 18:12:30 callforjudgement: though wait 18:12:45 callforjudgement: you're right, if it's a single cpu and no extra hardware, then there isn't much point asking if it's atomoic 18:12:51 because the instruction itself can't be interrupted 18:13:10 callforjudgement: still, it's an instruction you need because the multiple instruction emulatsions you can do on a 386 CAN be interrupted, 18:13:24 which is why you need such an instruction even on a single-cpu system with no extra hardware 18:15:25 right 18:15:51 int-e: you can write a correct lock even with no atomic primitives but assign-constant, IIRC 18:16:18 ah, apparently some (not all) 486 cpus have the cpuid instruction. you could say that's sort of an innovation. 18:16:21 clearly it can't be done without at least some guarantees of the value memory will take in the middle of at least one instruction 18:16:40 hmm, isn't CPUID pointless unless all CPUs you'd want to use it on have it? 18:17:00 callforjudgement: not it's not. x86 does have a way to detect whether cpuid is supported, 18:17:18 (for x >= 3) 18:17:22 screwing with the interrupt that Linux translates as SIGILL? that's what I'd guess 18:17:29 or 2? hmm. 18:17:29 no 18:18:27 callforjudgement: as for implementing lock, 386 (and earlier x86) does have a way to implement a lock, because they do hvae enough instructions to implement an aomtic _boolean_, sort of, but not enough to implement a lockless atomic full-word integer 18:19:53 I thought assignments to individual bytes were atomic 18:19:55 callforjudgement: lockless means you can alawys update the value of the atomic number without having to schedule other threads that are holding the lock so they can release it, so eg. you can even update a lockless atomic from a signal handler, but you can't wait on a lcok from a signal handler because the same thread outside the signal handler might be holding that mutex 18:19:57 maybe not, though? 18:20:09 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 18:20:18 callforjudgement: assignments are atomic if you do them right, but that's not enough 18:20:28 callforjudgement: with just atomic assignment you can't implement a lock 18:20:34 because you don't know what value you have overwritten 18:20:45 you need somethign that can atomically read AND write the same bit 18:20:48 There used to be tons of assembly snippets for detecting CPU versions. CPUID totally spoiled that kind of fun. 18:20:50 b_jonas: you can, but you need all the processes involved cooperating, and with unique IDs 18:20:52 which x86 does have 18:20:57 you need one variable for each of them and one shared one, IIRC 18:21:01 the algorithm's pretty complex 18:21:18 callforjudgement: I see 18:21:19 basically it involves doing things in an order which always allows you to detect if the value got overwritten and try again 18:21:46 int-e: don't worry, stuff is still complex with cpuid because of old cpus and historical cruft and because of intel/amd doing stuff differently 18:22:10 hmm… if you assume that halfway through a write, no memory locations other than the one you were writing to have a changed value 18:22:13 int-e: so often you have to do like five tests to find out if a feature is supported if you want to go by the book and make sure it works on all cpus, past and future 18:22:21 it's probably possible to implement a lock with no atomic instructions at all 18:22:33 -!- samebchase has joined. 18:22:45 b_jonas: or do what icc does and just grep for "GenuineIntel" in the ID string 18:22:54 and get bad performance on AMD as a bonus 18:23:19 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:23:51 actually I'm surprised nobody's written a program that automatically patches icc-generated binaries to fix the CPU ID chek 18:23:53 *check 18:24:31 int-e: as in, first test for a cpu that is at least 186 with the push sp instruction (or something like that), then if it's at least 286 with dunno what instruction, then if it's at least 386 with the pushf/popf instruction, and then test if it has cpuid with the pushf/popf instruction but a different bit (I could be mixing this up), then check four different cpuid values, each of which is valid only if the previous one has some bit set correctly, 18:24:44 and only if all that succeeds can you be sure you can use a feature. 18:25:08 086 didn't have a "push sp" instruction? 18:25:32 callforjudgement: it does, but one of them pushes hte value of sp before and one pushes the value after the push 18:25:36 sp is the stack pointer 18:25:37 callforjudgement: does push sp push the new or the old SP? that's the difference you'll check 18:25:41 ah right 18:25:50 this is surprisingly similar to detecting the INTERCAL variant you're running on 18:25:53 and it might not be 86 vs 186, it could be something else 18:26:01 I'm not sure which one is which 18:26:04 and there might be some shortcuts too 18:26:09 I guess the real question is whether you can subsequently correctly restore the stack pointer with pop sp 18:26:18 callforjudgement: there's no pop sp 18:26:30 pity :-( 18:27:03 * boily pop pop pop pop pop ♪ 18:27:56 http://f.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27307 18:28:05 ah, apparently 486 also introduces a bswap instruction whcih lets you swap endianness of 32 bit integers with a single instruction 18:28:42 the x86 series was always full of crazily specific instructions that hardly anyone uses 18:28:57 what? that's _not_ a crazily specific instrunction 18:29:00 people do use that 18:29:07 oh, yeah 18:29:18 there are crazily specific instructions for historical compatibility 18:29:24 some of them are thrown out in x86_64 of course 18:29:26 well, it's a useful operation 18:29:32 but you can do it with a few shifts 18:29:34 salc is fun 18:29:41 and ORs 18:29:44 or lahf / sahf 18:30:07 salc is fun because it's almost the same as sbb al,al 18:30:19 (but doesn't affect flags) 18:30:34 (oh and it's 1 byte shorter, 1 instead of 2) 18:30:37 "set AL cler"? 18:30:38 *clear 18:30:45 set al to carry 18:30:48 ah right 18:31:12 those instructions are useful for avoiding jumps 18:31:20 when you just want to do arithmetic on the carry 18:31:24 no look, lahf/sahf are z80 compatibility instructions, 18:31:31 also, wouldn't sbb al,al set it to 0/-1? 18:31:34 salc is way crazier 18:31:34 b_jonas: still crazy 18:31:45 callforjudgement: so does salc 18:31:52 and the decimal instructions and the parity flag are also way crazier 18:31:58 int-e: oh right 18:32:06 6502 doesn't have non-carry versions of add/sub 18:32:13 you have to set or clear the carry manually if you want to do that 18:32:24 but the 6502 is pretty close to RISC, really 18:32:30 the undocumented aam 13 / aad 13 is also fun (especially since some clones only implemented the documented base 10 versions) 18:32:40 int-e: what? what's aam 13? 18:32:59 same as aam 10, but in base 13. (the base can be any unsigned byte) 18:33:33 so ... ah' = al / 13, al' = al % 13. 18:34:07 the crazy part of salc is that it's undocumented, and that 386 already has a documente two-byte equivalent (setc al) iirc 18:34:18 so it's basically a divmod by constant? 18:34:29 callforjudgement: yes. 18:34:50 where by undocumented I mean that neither intel nor amd documentes it 18:34:51 b_jonas: didn't they document it eventually? I forgot. 18:34:58 that instruction actually does seem genuinely useful, but it should probably work on larger registers than bytes 18:35:07 I learned it from the TASM instruction set reference ;) 18:35:15 int-e: no 18:36:10 setc al will be 3 bytes. 18:36:53 the craziest instruction imo is arpl. the crazy part is that it takes up one of the precious 256 primary opcode bytes because it was added in 286 and at that point only privilaged instructions were prefixed 18:37:09 *and* it will set al to 0 or 1. It's not the same at all ;) 18:37:09 386 was the first cpu to add general purpose instructions with a prefix byte so they don't take up instruction space 18:37:14 what does arpl do? 18:37:21 int-e: ah right, 3 bytes 18:37:30 callforjudgement: adjust request privilege level ... uhm ... I forgot :) 18:37:36 right 18:37:45 callforjudgement: dunno, it does some crazy very simple arithmetic thingy on a number that you rarely need 18:37:48 when were rings besides 0 added to x86? 18:38:04 something like "take current pl and some passed in a register; set pl to the maximum of those."? 18:38:12 callforjudgement: 80286 18:38:19 perhaps 186, I never dealt with that. 18:38:29 callforjudgement: in 286 18:38:31 I hadn't even heard of the 186 before today 18:38:38 although it's logical that it exists, given the numbering scheme 18:38:39 callforjudgement: 186 only adds a few instructions 18:38:44 when did they stop using x86 numbering? 18:38:50 I know there's at least an 80686 18:38:52 pentium 18:39:11 people call it 586, but I think that's not official. 18:39:35 int-e: is the 686 also non-official? 18:39:42 I liked it when the components just had numbes 18:39:44 *numbers 18:39:50 but I guess there'd be number clashes eventually 18:40:08 callforjudgement: yeah, components having short numbers worked well when creating a new chip was really expensive 18:41:10 b_jonas: Oh. Some clones carried on the tradition. That may explain the 686. 18:41:16 nowadays it's only like a million dollars 18:41:24 plus like 10 cents per chip, if it's not too complex 18:41:47 callforjudgement: what? no way 18:41:56 callforjudgement: I mean, for a cpu it can be that expensive, 18:42:00 low enough that it's easily affordabe if you need to 18:42:03 but for some ordinary small chip it's way cheaper 18:42:10 I guess it's probably come down further 18:42:20 cpus are complicated of course, more complicated than they were in the hayday 18:42:22 especially if you use old chip fabrication methods 18:42:44 actually, IIRC the main issue in constructing complex chips is that they use more silicon area 18:42:51 and they can never get the silicon 100% pure 18:43:00 and a single impurity has a decent chance of throwing off the circuit 18:43:15 so the larger the area, the greater the chance that the chip will hit at least one problematic impurity and not work at all 18:43:29 whereas with a small chip, like 90% of them will work fine, it might only be like 10% for a large one 18:43:41 and it's impossible to test, yeah 18:43:53 that's sort of also the problem with tft screens 18:44:09 dead pixels take a while to show up after manufacture, often 18:46:06 (and along different lines, also the reason that very large screens still tend to be plasma even nowadays) 18:46:36 You could make simpler CPUs though 18:46:46 A lot of modern ones tend to be too complicated 18:47:14 they have to be in order to achieve a high processing speed 18:47:29 the generalized version of moore's law stopped applying to clock speed ages ago 18:48:37 basically due to cooling issues 18:48:59 I think the current approach to try to get a bit of extra clock speed is to reduce the voltage 18:49:04 but that has its own issues 18:51:07 You could still simplify it and have a faster speed, possibly by not having implicit caching and pipelining and out of order execution and all of that stuff automatically, and requiring them to be programmed in manually instead, and you could also use multi cores 18:53:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:55:28 ooh, YouTube comments are working again for me 18:55:38 I just observed someone complaining that TV shows tended to be hosted by celebrities 18:55:56 I guess you could get a new person nobody had heard of every week to avoid that, but it'd be awkward 18:57:24 (or every day for a daily show) 19:05:52 -!- variable has quit (Changing host). 19:05:52 -!- variable has joined. 19:12:29 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:16:12 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:14 -!- rodgort has joined. 19:37:14 Oh obscure x86 instructions. This is one of my favourite x86 snippets: cmp al, 10; sbb al, 0x69; das. It converts a value less than 16 to the corresponding hex digit (0123456789ABCDEF), all in 5 bytes. 19:39:18 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:40:02 -!- conehead has joined. 19:40:20 -!- shachaf has changed nick to cheese. 19:40:24 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 19:40:39 -!- cheese has changed nick to shachaf. 19:40:53 nice! 19:41:31 it's too bad that ascii/bcd instructions don't exist in long mode :/ 19:43:56 with SSE you could load 0x46454443424139383736353433323130 into a register as a lookup table and maybe use it for this 19:53:06 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:54:07 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 19:57:55 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Client Quit). 20:05:02 int-e: oh wow! so AAM is encoded as two bytes, D4 0A, where the second byte is an immediate giving the base, 20:05:32 int-e: and AMD actually documents the general form with any immediate 20:06:18 int-e: intel documents it as well 20:06:53 I guess I never really tried to understand those six decimal arithmetic byte instructions of x86 20:10:54 (meanwhile, new unique in DCSS trunk! it's a cat!) 20:11:13 boily: which cat? 20:12:29 b_jonas: Natasha. 20:12:46 who is he? does he come from some prior source? 20:12:59 like, a fantasy novel or role playing sourcebook or something? 20:13:38 no, she's just Boris' old familiar. she's a level 3 wizard, and'll be encountered pretty early in the game. 20:13:55 I see 20:18:03 and another unique in the works! Vashnia the elite naga sharpshooter! 20:18:13 (along with Asterion the bufferd minotaur.) 20:18:33 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:19:54 s/rd/d/ 20:21:05 boily: naga sharpshooter? how does that work? I thoguht nagas didn't have hands. 20:21:12 is he a sharpspitter? 20:22:48 * boily shrugs. “IANACD”. 20:23:02 and once again, she's a she. 20:23:20 internet assigned numbers authority on compact disk 20:23:37 Bike: close. “I Am Not A Crawl Developer”. 20:24:04 b_jonas: well, a lot of the commits made in the past few weeks concern new monster sets and squads, à la Angband. 20:24:25 like, you're going to encounter more groups of thematic monsters with speciation and stuff. 20:24:50 (specialisation? specification? divergemilarity?) 20:37:22 shachaf: Rust now supports cross-crate macros, as well as defining "procedural macros" (AST manipulation with arbitrary Rust code) without rebuilding the compiler 20:37:39 that sounds fancy 20:40:41 ok 20:42:18 pursuing to the constant deaddition/unremoval of a possible Forest branch, https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:hangedman:forest_dispersal&s[]=forest 20:42:51 I want trees, fungot it! 20:43:41 trees in a dungeon? 20:44:30 don't question the trees! 20:44:48 trees are nice. they are green. they burn well :D 20:44:50 -!- yorick has joined. 20:51:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 20:51:55 -!- conehead has joined. 20:54:28 -!- mtve has joined. 20:55:16 Is brainfuck with [] as do-while Turing-complete? 20:56:39 I'm sure someone must've asked themselves that before, but I can't find anything and it's not obvious whether that's the case to me 21:01:47 Hm, probably not 21:02:27 <`^_^v> does anyone have any recommendations for resources for learning forth 21:03:18 what do you mean by "as do-while" 21:03:50 `^_^v: http://www.forth.com/starting-forth/ maybe 21:04:29 presumably "[ behaves like do { and ] behaves like } while (*p);" 21:05:07 <`^_^v> cool, thanks 21:05:15 fungot: yoohoo? 21:05:29 * boily mapoles the snobbing fungot 21:05:46 yes, what shachaf said 21:05:56 compared to the typical while (*p) { and } 21:06:10 essentially, treat [ as a no-op and ] as usual 21:06:32 I have a feeling that was discussed? 21:08:05 Well, I can't find anything, though 'brainfuck "do-while"' might not be the best search query 21:10:02 -!- itsy has left. 21:12:04 I can only find the skip-one variant. 21:14:18 i like that a large fraction of all do-while loops in C use the condition "while (0);" 21:14:25 possibly even a majority, depending on how you count 21:15:01 Well, it's very fast 21:16:03 For the regular while loop, while (1) probably is quite frequent too. At least compared to any single alternative. 21:18:35 FireFly: good question. dunno 21:18:52 FireFly: in this bf variant, what does - do if the cell has value 0 ? 21:19:35 Probably wrap around 21:20:19 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 21:20:20 so [-] would still zero a cell, at least (although, taking 256 iterations if the cell was already 0) 21:21:07 +[-] would be fine even if it didn't wrap around, for any nonnegative value. 21:21:26 FireFly: my guess is that it's still Turing-complete, but that's just a guess 21:21:42 I have the same guess, but someone should work that out. 21:22:07 maybe give this language a name, write it up on the wiki :-) 21:22:41 I'm pretty sure creating brainfuck derivatives is a grave sin 21:22:51 with a simple interpreter (it doesn't have to be fast, just correct and consistent). 21:23:10 FireFly: but you've already committed that sin. does documenting it make it worse? 21:23:21 Hm, I suppose 21:23:41 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:25:24 though you could say I have created one as well by asking how - behaves on underflow 21:25:35 because that means I imagined at least two possibilities of how it can behave 21:25:41 oh no 21:25:43 I feel dirty 21:26:19 It's that many-worlds quantum thing. Every decision you make creates new brainfuck derivatives. 21:29:22 ok, I think I can prove it's turing-complete 21:29:29 let me run the proof on you 21:31:00 first, if you have three cells x y z you can copy x to y destroying z the same way as in bf: you zero y and z, then increase y and z as many times as you can decrease x, then zero y, then increase x and y as many times as you decrease z, right? 21:31:07 * boily munches on popcorn while he watches the hot'n'dirty proof action 21:31:23 now suppose you have a bf program, and I'll tell how to translate this to bf-dowhile 21:32:44 suppose the original program has brackets nested in at most D depth, then simulate each cell of the original tape by (9*D+9) consecutive cells in the new machine where 9 is a constant later to be determined 21:34:31 the trick is, to simulate a bf loop, you save a copy of the value of the cell under the pointer when you enter the first iteration of that bf loop, copying it with you to every segment of the new tape you visit all throughout the loop. 21:35:48 you execute the bf loop like a do-while loop, but not in the same space as the outer code but in new cells in the same segments, 21:36:44 then in the end of the loop you check that saved value and copy the new values to a conditional place, which is either the outer simulated tape or some junk location, depending on whether the original loop ran at least once 21:36:53 there are just two problems, 21:37:12 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:37:18 one is how to initialize the inner copy of the tape, the second is how to copy it back 21:37:59 for this you somehow have to track the interval the head has moved during the loop, and also where the head ended up in the end of the loop 21:38:32 that should be possible with some extra cells in each segment, only I'll have to check if it's also possible in bf-dowhile 21:40:40 to save the leftmost position the head has moved to, you just reserve a cell in each segment that contains 0 everywhere the head has moved but 1 in the leftmost position, initialize this to 1 where you start, and set it to 0 before every simulated left move inside the loop and to 1 after it 21:40:44 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 21:41:24 then you can seek back there with a do-while loop 21:41:35 similarly you can save and find the rightmost position and head position -- I think 21:41:41 -!- Vorpal_ has joined. 21:42:09 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:12 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:12 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:14 -!- salparot__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:14 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:15 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:42:17 but how do you do a conditional move in bf-dowhile? 21:42:34 -!- Bike has joined. 21:42:51 that is, how to do a conditional copy of a value to a destination cell a fixed offset away depending on the value of a cell a fixed offset away 21:43:09 -!- shachaf has joined. 21:43:37 -!- olsner has joined. 21:44:05 right, I think you can do such a conditional move 21:44:16 The easier way to TCness might be to just adapt some of the things that have been done to show regular brainfuck it. 21:44:22 you need to set up some cells correctly and it's sort of a waste of space, but I think it's possible 21:44:37 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:44:44 and I think you can use that to initialize the copy of the tape as well, though it gets ugly 21:44:51 I think it's turing-complete 21:45:13 To be fair, you thought that from the start, and that was just lots of handwaving. 21:45:25 and if D is fixed you can even give a very simple finite automaton translator 21:45:45 fizzie: sure, but I wanted to convince myself most importantly 21:47:34 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:48:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:50:22 this would be a very wasteful emulation 21:50:31 you'd need like a ton of cells 21:50:48 but then, with brainfuck that shouldn't be surprising 21:52:08 -!- Zuu_ has changed nick to Zuu. 21:52:15 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 21:52:15 -!- Zuu has joined. 21:52:56 -!- Tritonio has joined. 21:53:22 -!- Bike has joined. 21:53:53 also, this can't translate input and output statments, 21:54:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: HYPERDIMENSIONAL VOLCANIC CHICKEN). 21:54:15 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:54:17 but that's no surprise: in bf-dowhile you can't write a program that either writes empty output or non-empty output depending on the input 21:54:20 whereas in bf you can 21:54:30 but that's no problem, bf without io is still turing complete 21:56:42 shachaf: hm, references are implicitly convertible to raw pointers in Rust 21:56:45 that seems weird 22:08:19 you could mostly fix the output by buffering, I don't know about the input 22:09:41 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:10:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:11:43 kmc: what are rust references? 22:11:46 are they like c++ references? 22:11:47 -!- Bike has joined. 22:13:01 also known as "borrowed pointers" 22:13:12 but "reference" is now the official term 22:14:12 oh 22:14:14 C++ references have really weird semantics and aren't really a first class type 22:14:26 yes 22:14:41 Rust references are more like plain old pointers, except they're non-nullable and provide memory safety via region checking 22:15:03 so you can use a borrowed pointer as a raw pointer? 22:15:25 yes 22:17:52 doesn't that sort of defeat some purpose or other 22:18:12 well, at least the pointer still counts as borrowed within that block, i guess 22:18:36 maybe i'm confused 22:18:45 i should learn rust 22:18:54 it doesn't defeat memory safety because dereferencing a raw pointer can only happen in unsafe code 22:25:18 shachaf: probably 22:25:20 it's a cool language 22:36:49 -!- loveirc-bot1 has joined. 22:37:52 -!- loveirc-bot1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:12 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:43:28 -!- thirdeyeforsale has joined. 22:47:04 -!- thirdeyeforsale has left ("Leaving"). 22:50:20 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:52:16 -!- myndzi has joined. 23:13:02 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 23:14:51 -!- Nathanator1416j has joined. 23:15:06 -!- oerjan_ has joined. 23:15:10 Hi! First time! 23:15:48 How do these things work? 23:17:05 `relcome Nathanator1416j 23:17:14 HackEgo... 23:17:27 hello... 23:17:46 Nathanator1416j: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:18:33 Working on a new esolang, BF like, quick quines, but hard to ake complex ones 23:19:33 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split). 23:19:56 Goodbye all, goin to the wiki 23:20:01 okay! ttyl 23:20:14 -!- Nathanator1416j has left. 23:22:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 23:22:47 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:23:39 -!- oerjan_ has changed nick to oerjan. 23:25:24 -!- loveirc-bot1 has joined. 23:25:40 -!- loveirc-bot1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:10 -!- loveirc-bot1 has joined. 23:28:47 -!- loveirc-bot1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:30:14 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 23:30:37 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!~loveirc-b@c-24-0-107-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net. 23:31:23 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!~loveirc-b@c-24-0-107-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net. 23:31:49 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 23:41:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:44:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:53:36 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 23:54:52 -!- Sorella has joined. 2014-02-04: 00:14:11 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0). 00:15:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:41:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:42:56 -!- Bike has joined. 01:12:58 Rule 100.6b Players can use the _Magic_ Store & Event Locator to find tournaments in their area 01:15:04 It is weird knowing people IRL who know me as "Taneb" 01:20:36 haha 01:20:41 Sgeo: yes, it's the best rule 01:22:05 Sgeo: does that mean they are allowed to do so during a game? 01:36:54 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:18:49 I would assume so. 02:22:45 -!- augur has joined. 02:24:00 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:24:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:03:08 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:43:12 https://twitter.com/EvilHaskellTips 03:48:35 kmc: <3 03:53:54 https://twitter.com/mtabini/status/430159283683360768/photo/1 03:55:01 Is CGFloat an IEEE single float? 03:56:01 Oh. It is a float with the property sizeof(CGFloat) == sizeof(void*). :( 03:57:07 So... it can't actually even store a full US phone number on 32-bit systems. 03:57:54 "+1 555 867 5309" is greater than 2^24-1. :( 03:59:01 amazing 03:59:25 Hell, so's "+1 000 000 0000". 04:00:03 Which is not a legal number, but that's neither here nor there. 04:00:05 who needs this +1 though 04:00:06 this is america 04:00:36 even ITU agrees that we're number one 04:00:44 There are places in the country where you actually have to dial "1 XXX XXX XXXX" though. 04:00:47 Even for local numbers. 04:00:50 yes 04:35:35 "+82 10 XXXX YYYY"? (that's a lot greater than 2^24-1) 04:36:25 and I think E.164 allows the maximum of 15 digits 04:56:17 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:56:51 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:01:25 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:08:37 Isn't that the sort of trick people would try in the 1970s? 05:09:03 Right alongside two digit years? 05:09:15 (Not sure why I'm blaming the 70s specifically) 05:12:50 ? 05:14:02 i for one have no idea what you are talking about 05:14:38 Y2k, storing two digits of the year in order to save memory 05:20:29 using a float for phone numbers is also space-inefficient, though 05:22:13 > logBase 2 (10**15) 05:22:14 49.82892142331043 05:24:33 lifthrasiir: I was assuming this was American, and also I'm only really familiar with the North American dialing plan. :) 05:25:37 ;) 05:40:48 +358 40 NNN NNNN is a typical Finnish mobile phone number. 05:42:58 -!- polytone has quit (Quit: Server updates). 05:44:50 -!- monotone has joined. 05:53:06 +1 NNN NNN NNNN is a North American number. 05:53:47 (can't be more specific than that; that's the scheme, there's not a more nation-specific easy prefix, nor is there such a thing for cell numbers) 05:53:54 Kindle is so annoying to hold compared to the Nook 05:54:01 Trying to remind myself that the software is far better 05:54:21 if you have to remind yourself, is it really better? 05:54:59 I'm likely to get used to the lack of bugs and ability to do simple things like hilighting across pages and likely to take that for granted 05:55:00 did you like buy both 05:55:07 Bike: yes. Not at the same time though 05:55:14 why? 05:55:52 I think partially wanted the glow light stuff, partially sick of the Nook's perpetual bugginess, partially ... ads maybe 05:56:09 Also remembering that the Kindle had a feature that I kept wishing the Nook had 05:57:52 040, 041, 044, 0450, 046 and 050 (the initial 0 is dropped when used with the country code) used to be operator-specific prefixes for mobile phone networks, but they changed it so that you can keep the number when switching operators, so they're all mixed up these days. 06:11:19 how consumerist 06:32:40 fizzie: the same thing happened in Korea, +82 (0)10 vs. +82 (0)1[1-9]. 06:34:06 -!- jix_ has joined. 06:34:08 -!- heroux_ has joined. 06:35:38 http://necros.gibdon.com/scene-music-minor 06:36:03 Pentagonal Dreams is "less in quality than average, or short" according to this person 06:36:03 wtf 06:37:41 -!- Vorpal has joined. 06:38:16 -!- conehead_ has joined. 06:38:45 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:45 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:45 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:45 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:45 -!- Vorpal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:46 -!- conehead has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:46 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:47 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 06:38:48 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 06:39:14 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 06:41:46 'infinity' which is on the main list, is about as short as pentagonal dreams 06:47:39 -!- lambdabot has joined. 06:48:46 -!- olsner has joined. 07:08:52 Then it must be "less in quality than average". 07:27:55 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:45:53 Oona Räisänen‏ @windyoona: "Russians keep referring to me as Финский инженер (Finnish engineer). I wonder if it means something else." 07:47:30 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:51:14 -!- augur has joined. 07:51:54 I read (some of) the Slashdot comments about that helicopter thing, and I wish I hadn't. 07:52:03 why 07:52:25 Because it seemed to be approximately 90% about her gender. 07:52:39 sigh 07:57:58 she's pretty awesome 07:58:20 waiting for your meal at a restaurant? why not reverse engineer the wireless paging protocol http://www.windytan.com/2013/09/the-burger-pager.html 07:59:13 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:59:21 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:00:03 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:00:38 i wonder what her job is 08:04:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:05:13 Software developer, I think. We have some friends in common. (You know, Finland; it's not such a giant community.) 08:05:52 At the company with the silliest YouTube ads. 08:05:56 Let's see if I can find one. 08:06:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jym9rfQgec there you go 08:06:49 (I keep getting that in front of my videos, it's probably a geographically Finland-localized ad.) 08:08:17 wow. what? 08:08:21 fizzie: yeah obviously the comments should be about how she's finnish 08:08:34 oklopol: Right, exactly! 08:08:47 (There was a bit of that too, since it said "Finnish" in the title.) 08:08:53 okay, good 08:09:27 wow this video is available in 4K 08:09:28 thank god 08:11:08 Does it make you want to go work there? 08:11:35 (It didn't really "work" for me, personally.) 08:14:06 ... it kind of does, yeah 08:14:20 but also makes me feel like i'm not cool enough to work there 08:14:47 which is the problem with this sort of thing 08:15:44 but their incredible committment to the "rockstar" trope is almost enough to make it un-terrible 08:16:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:16:11 looks like they do some haskell too 08:16:22 -!- shachaf has joined. 08:17:58 They were "best place to work at" (according to the Great Place to Work Institute's survey) in Finland for 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011, but not in the last couple of years. 08:19:42 wonder what happened 08:20:49 Oh, I guess in 2012 at least they just didn't take part. 08:21:13 You know, to be fair to other companies and all that. 08:23:18 hehe 08:26:16 if you work at the best place to work at does that mean there's nowhere to go but down :'( 08:26:47 and just by joining you're probably making the company worse :( 08:27:34 I think you're supposed to think of it so that if you switch jobs, you'll just have to help make the new place even better. 08:28:08 apparently i work at the "best place to work at" (according to the Great Place to Work Institute's survey) 08:28:27 Globally, or regionally? (Do they even do a global ranking?) 08:28:30 "best place at which to work" (according to grammar pedants) 08:29:00 i've honestly never heard anyone do the preposition thing 08:29:01 kmc: p. sure that's a rule grammar pedants invented to have something to ped 08:29:17 fizzie: i don't know, i just went to their web page and clicked around 08:29:52 but these are all us companies so i guess it's regional 08:29:55 guys, I realized something 08:30:52 the 220 V cable between the mains and the power supply is the oldest piece of technology we have in our computers. it's been exactly the same type of cable since the XT. 08:31:03 mine's only 115 V :( 08:31:20 almost everything else in the hardware and software have been replaced with something more modern since much later. 08:31:25 This one's 230V, nominally. I'm sure that was the point. 08:31:45 b_jonas: anyway that's an interesting observation 08:31:47 fizzie: yes, it used to be 220 V nominal back then, now it's 230 V nominal. 08:32:10 (the cable is IEC 60320 C13, for what it's worth) 08:32:42 At home I'm still using the same computer as the one I've first had on my own, since about 18 years ago, but it's only the same computer because I think of it like that. 08:32:56 Every part has been replaced at least once, most parts have been replaced multiple times, 08:33:11 you can't replace the same part twice 08:33:17 and at one point almost the whole hardware got replaced at the same time (but the hard disk stayed the same at that point). 08:33:19 it's just the same part because you think of it like that 08:33:27 i have like 20 of those cables 08:33:35 (but then did you truly replace it........!!) 08:33:38 shachaf: exactly, and it's the same computer only because I think of it like that. 08:33:55 i don't think i use desktop computers anymore 08:34:13 shachaf: when all the hw got replaced, I could have decided it's a new computer only I migrated the hard disk and the software and the desk and some other stuff. 08:34:49 i don't think i trust this Great Place to Work Institute v. much 08:35:09 * kmc -> sleepytime 08:35:15 good neegan 08:35:28 good night 08:35:41 So anyway, the power cable isn't the same piece either, but that's the only part that hasn't been upgraded to something more modern. The same power cable I first used might still work today. 08:36:13 in the really old days it was just a cable 08:36:52 but now it's a power cable 08:36:58 that has to be an upgrade 08:37:04 I think the power led might be another candidate. Since when has that been using the same two-pin arrangement on the motherboard? 08:38:36 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:38:44 -!- augur has joined. 08:40:50 The 3.5mm jack is also a reasonably old design. 08:41:31 god, hooking up the main bus on the motherboard was a pita. fucking speaker on a wire with this shitty ass hookup. 08:43:28 came out at least four times during build, and that's where the fucking power button connects! 08:52:38 -!- conehead_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:52:39 -!- conehead__ has changed nick to conehead_. 09:01:20 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:01:51 fizzie: true 09:11:47 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 09:14:20 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:30:45 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:19:11 -!- SeeNoEvil has joined. 10:21:06 -!- elliott has joined. 10:21:30 -!- elliott has changed nick to Guest1732. 10:22:18 -!- Guest1732 has left. 10:22:18 -!- Guest1732 has joined. 10:22:27 SeeNoEvil: CTCP TIME? 10:22:30 -!- Guest1732 has quit (Client Quit). 10:22:40 -!- elliott_ has joined. 10:23:02 -!- elliott_ has changed nick to Guest50025. 10:23:31 -!- Guest50025 has quit (Client Quit). 10:23:41 -!- elliott__ has joined. 10:28:30 Guest1732: trying to understand IRC commands, and what time zone you are in. 10:30:13 Seem to recall some earlier chat where you seemed interested in eigenratios. 10:30:29 eigenratios are pretty cool 10:30:34 I don't know much about them though... that must have been ages ago 10:30:47 Yeah. I've been reading the logs. 10:31:43 my condolences, the further you go back the more annoying I am :P 10:32:46 You had a novel idea for defining a self-interpreter that wasn't "cheating" - having an eigenratio > 1. 10:33:20 Might not have been you. But I think it was - at least an "elliot". 10:33:40 yeah, that was mine, I think, though perhaps not originally or solely 10:33:57 I quite like it, but IIRC you can just cheat in a more elaborate way by defining the host language in a way that lets you do a cheating self-interpreter with an eigenratio slightly above 1 10:34:19 like, an eval instruction that adds a slight slowdown. 10:36:06 I think it might be a bit tricky to do I think. 10:36:22 I think. Yes. I do... :-) 10:36:46 I think... I think... I think... it might be a bit trick. 10:37:25 I think you should create an actual working example. 10:37:29 well, for instance 10:37:44 let's say you have an implementation where every instruction takes 1s to execute 10:37:53 but when you call eval, any evals in the code you're evalling take 2s instead 10:37:59 and then 4s when you nest deeper, etc. 10:38:18 (this runs into another problem with this kind of stuff -- eigenratios are sort of an implementation-dependent notion rather than something inherent to the language) 10:39:53 Not always. Implement your own interpreter for the SUBLEQ interpreter on eigneration.blogspot,com and see it you do it in a way that produces a different eigenratio from the 34.xxx value. 10:40:59 I mean, you create the bottom level interpreter, and then run a stack of the self-interpreter on the blog..... 10:43:50 In your example with eval(eval(eval(something))), how would the inner instances "know" to run slower? 10:48:04 This one: http://eigenratios.blogspot.co.nz/2006/09/mark-ii-oisc-self-interpreter.html 10:51:28 Gotta go. "I'll be back" some other time. 10:51:40 -!- SeeNoEvil has left. 10:53:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:12:10 -!- jconn has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:12:19 -!- jconn has joined. 11:25:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:25:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 11:25:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:40:31 -!- yorick has joined. 13:02:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:08:16 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:15:57 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:38:18 -!- boily has joined. 13:43:00 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 13:43:22 -!- boily has joined. 13:43:28 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:43:50 good SSL morning! 13:47:32 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:48:47 ~metar ENVA 13:48:48 ENVA 041320Z 12008KT 080V150 CAVOK 06/M04 Q1008 TEMPO 16015G25KT RMK WIND 670FT 15010KT 13:49:49 ~metar CYUL 13:49:49 CYUL 041342Z 21006KT 8SM SCT037 BKN120 M12/M14 A3045 RMK SC3AC4 SLP314 13:49:59 ~metar EFHK 13:50:00 EFHK 041320Z 17006KT 2500 FZDZ BR BKN002 M00/M01 Q1023 TEMPO 1000 BKN001 13:50:06 Still doing the M00. 14:11:35 `? Nooodles 14:11:45 :( 14:12:16 `? ramen 14:12:23 hm. 14:12:51 Gregor`: USE YOUR NECROMANCY SKILLZ AND REVIVE YOUR BOTS PLZKTHX. 14:13:44 Taneb: the Wisdom doesn't have /no+dles/i, but it has ramen: 拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。hth 14:14:01 The wisdom so does have Nooodles I'm looking at it right now 14:14:19 would anyone like to take over hosting the wiki 14:14:22 I don't have time for it any more 14:14:46 Taneb: eh? 14:14:54 !sh Hey I'm still alive! 14:14:56 ​/tmp/input.31598: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /tmp/input.31598: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file 14:14:59 or not. 14:15:02 oh. 14:15:06 boily, page 17 14:15:08 !sh echo Hey I'm still alive! 14:15:08 ​/tmp/input.31656: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /tmp/input.31656: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file 14:15:21 !sh echo Hey I'm still alive\! 14:15:22 ​/tmp/input.31732: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /tmp/input.31732: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file 14:15:34 !sh echo 'Hey I'm still alive!' 14:15:35 ​/tmp/input.31784: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /tmp/input.31784: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file 14:15:40 Anyway, I have a lecture to attend 2 miles away 14:15:40 rgh 14:15:43 Taneb: I fail at grep. 14:15:45 * Taneb ----> away 14:15:51 !sh echo "Hey I'm still alive!" 14:15:51 Hey I'm still alive! 14:15:56 SEE 14:16:44 !sh echo "~echo !sh echo \"~echo hello\"" 14:16:44 ​~echo !sh echo "~echo hello" 14:16:50 meh. 14:18:15 metasepia: ~echo hi 14:18:22 nah. 14:18:51 * boily shields his bot from meddling Scandinavians 14:19:42 mwahahahandinavians 14:21:02 well, that is not a reassuring response 14:26:19 elliott__: btw, by “hosting over”, you mean only yielding your admin responsibilities to someone else, or move everything to a new server also? 14:27:24 the latter; handing over root access on the box I store semi-sensitive stuff and IRC from isn't my idea of fun :p 14:27:57 and the problem isn't sysop duty so much as upgrading mediawiki and so on -- it's not actually much effort, I've just been neglecting it and appear likely to continue to do so for the forseeable future 14:29:47 wow, it's been two years since I took over the wiki 14:29:48 time flies 14:31:35 elliott__: where has your time gone 14:31:50 have you started doing the booze 14:31:58 ?? 14:32:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:33:00 (o dear he do the booze.) 14:34:25 yeah, I've been drunk for the past year 14:34:45 getting my affairs in order before my inevitable death from liver failure, etc. etc. etc. 14:34:51 no seriously I'm just lazy 14:36:08 SO UMM WHY DID YOU SAY "elliott__> I don't have time for it any more" IF YOU MEANT THAT YOU ARE JUST LAZY, THAT SEEMS A BIT ILLOGICAL COULD YOU EXPLAIN 14:37:55 it sounds better 14:38:01 so my phd thesis is currently 114 pages 14:38:09 *draft 14:38:39 how proud are you on a scale from 1 to \omega 14:38:53 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 14:40:21 (most of it is doodles of dicks and walruses) 14:42:36 oklopol: ω² - 2ω, but only iff your dick-to-walrus ratio is within φ±ε. 14:42:56 "only if and only if". 14:43:44 sorry. I RAS syndromized that. 14:43:56 how surreal! 15:05:22 boily: that isn't even between 1 to omega 15:05:30 besides, it doesn't even make sensee 15:06:19 I know ^^ 15:06:48 -!- password2 has joined. 15:08:58 !sh bin/relcome password2 15:08:59 ​/tmp/input.397: line 1: bin/relcome: No such file or directory 15:09:13 Gregor`: I can't relcome people! 15:09:50 oklopol: I'm 1075000000 proud of you on that scale 15:09:58 approximately 15:13:23 seems appropriate 15:13:39 although i think that's a bit closer to 0 than \omega :( 15:14:18 also ω² - 2ω is a perfectly cromulent surreal number 15:25:06 but, a question remains unanswered: of what use are surreal numbers? 15:27:01 I like them as an example of a field that fails to be complete because there are too many numbers between 0 and 1 15:27:25 (I am, btw, still amazed that they form a field at all.) 15:27:44 * boily 's brains choke on int-e's affirmation 15:28:15 oh ... ordered field. 15:30:33 hyperreal numbers are used in non-standard analysis. is there a nice way to map those into the surreals? 15:31:21 what is non-standard analysis, and while we're on the subject, standard analysis? 15:34:49 Ah I don't know this stuff. I'd say that analysis is abstract calculus; you have measure theory, integrals, derivatives, function spaces, many notions of convergence ... but ultimately based on real numbers. non-standard analysis has inifiniesimals and inifinities, allowing things like the dirac delta function. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_delta_function 15:34:50 non-standard analysis is when you take an ultrafilter U on N, and say that a hyperreal number is a function R^N and a < b if the set of coordinates i s.t. a_i < b_i is in U (exactly one of the sets {i | a_i < b_i}, {i | a_i > b_i}, {i | a_i = b_i} is in U, because it's an ultrafilter) 15:35:15 (and oklopol just provided the definition of a hyperreal number) 15:35:19 -!- fungot has joined. 15:35:21 and then you have a lot of numbers between 0 and any number larger than it, because any sequence going to 0 provides you with one 15:35:30 (There should probably be a backup relcome in fungot.) 15:35:31 fizzie: fnord? alice? 15:35:37 yeah definitions are totally better than explanations 15:36:02 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:36:09 Oh fungot is back. I wonder whether it's become smarter. 15:36:09 int-e: but a computer science textbook than a scheme source that exercises every aspect of a lisp name, i presume 15:36:50 ^help 15:36:51 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 15:37:35 What is the 0-9 in ^str? 15:38:01 Oh 15:38:33 A number. 15:38:36 Ten slots for strings, that could be referenced as str:N in a ^def I suppose 15:38:37 ^str 42 get 15:38:37 Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] 15:38:41 ^str 4 get 15:38:41 Empty. 15:38:45 Yes. 15:38:48 ^str 0 get 15:38:48 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>++++++.>++++++.<<----.>----------------------------------.<----.>>+++.<<-----------.+.>>>.<++++++.<<-.>>-----.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------.<+.>>++.>+++++.<<<+.>>>+.<-.<.>----------------------.<++++++++++++.------------.>----------------------.<<------.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>----.<---.<++++.++++++++.>- 15:39:41 ^bf ,[.,]!test 15:39:41 test 15:39:42 @bf +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++>+++++++>+++++++<<<<-]>>++++++.>++++++.<<----.>----------------------------------.<----.>>+++.<<-----------.+.>>>.<++++++.<<-.>>-----.<++++++++++++++++++++++++++.--------------------------.<+.>>++.>+++++.<<<+.>>>+.<-.<.>----------------------.<++++++++++++.------------.>----------------------.<<------.>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>>----.<---.<++++.+++... 15:39:42 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgjjj 15:39:48 ...+++++.>- 15:39:54 oh. darn. 15:40:08 Should be easy enough to add a backup welcome, then 15:40:19 I guess that string is incomplete anyway. 15:40:52 ^bf str:0 15:41:05 err 15:41:13 I guess it only likes that in ^def's 15:41:21 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:41:35 int-e: thanks. and about the Dirac: I guess that's why the teachers told us that it wasn't kinda like a regular function, waved their hands, and continued teaching. 15:42:00 (yay engineering! we do stuff with advanced maths, but don't know why!) 15:42:11 The ^str does not necessarily print completely, if it's too long. 15:42:25 ^def tmp bf str:0 15:42:25 Defined. 15:42:26 ^tmp 15:42:26 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ), blsqbot ! 15:42:30 See, it's fine. 15:42:54 I guess it's like that because of the ). 15:44:19 What's problematic with the ) ? 15:45:01 If I forget to close an opening parenthesis (like this 15:45:14 ) 15:45:17 ) then the closing one will typically be on the next line ;) 15:45:17 int-e: |syntax error 15:45:17 int-e: | then the closing one will typically be on the next line;) 15:45:32 boily: ( 15:45:36 ) 15:45:43 it's still unbalanced. 15:45:45 ( 15:45:45 STOP UNBALANCING THE UNIVERSE, YOU VILE FUNGOTTER! 15:45:48 ))))))) 15:46:02 boily: you closed a parenthesis that I closed as well. 15:46:10 ((((((( 15:46:23 FireFly: A lone ) is not outputtable with Underload, which is what static strings like that on fungot usually use. 15:46:23 fizzie: there is nothing behind the grape-0 includes all brainfuck programs with up to sixty five thousand states. feel particularly compelled to read it. 15:46:36 ()()()()()()()() 15:46:46 boily: you should be happy that I'm not compensating for the smileys. 15:46:49 fizzie: I see 15:47:27 ^def tmp bf ,[.,]!does i/o work here too? 15:47:27 Defined. 15:47:31 ^tmp 15:47:37 ^tmp test? 15:47:37 test? 15:47:41 Ah 15:47:47 ^tmp ^tmp test? 15:47:47 ^tmp test? 15:48:04 ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:04 ~echo ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:04 ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:04 ~echo ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:05 ^tmp ~echo ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:05 ~echo ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:05 ^tmp ~echo test! 15:48:05 ~echo test! 15:48:05 test! 15:48:14 * boily grins like a maniac 15:48:15 ^str 1 get 15:48:15 >,[>,]<[<]>[<++++[>--------<-]+>-[-------[--[<+++[>----<-]+>[< 15:48:39 ^def aux ^bf str:1 15:48:39 Usage: ^def 15:48:44 ^def aux bf str:1 15:48:44 Mismatched []. 15:48:54 ^str 2 get 15:48:54 Empty. 15:49:06 ^str 0-9 get 15:49:07 Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] 15:51:31 No need to be so literal. 15:51:59 There's something in 5 and 9 too. 15:52:08 ^def tmp bf str:5 15:52:08 Defined. 15:52:11 ^tmp foo 15:52:11 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot ! 15:52:17 Oh, that's just the same. 15:52:19 ^def tmp bf str:9 15:52:20 Defined. 15:52:21 ^tmp foo 15:52:21 foo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, ... 15:52:27 Nice 15:52:49 ^str 9 get 15:52:49 ,[.,]++++++++++++++[>++++++++>++++>+++++++>++++++<<<<-]>>++.--------------------------.>>+++.++++++++++++++.+++++++.<+.>+++.--.<++.<.<++++.>>>++.<<.>>+++++.<+++.---.<.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++.>>.<.>--.----.<----.<<.>-----.>>+.-.<.>--.<-----------------------------------------------------------------.<-.+++++++++++++.>>----------.<.>++++.<<------.<--.>>.+++++++++++++++++++++ 15:52:54 Output length limits strike again. 15:53:11 The program is probably complete, it's just that the bf interpreter has an overly short maximum length limit. 15:53:11 ^style ... 15:53:11 Not found. 15:53:23 ^style 15:53:23 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 15:54:21 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:55:05 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:59:16 -!- passby has joined. 15:59:39 ^tmp passby 15:59:39 passby: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoteric ... 15:59:55 -!- passby has left. 16:00:05 -!- passby has joined. 16:02:22 -!- passby has left. 16:09:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:09:59 fizzie: That's one reason to have rle bf 16:10:02 DDOS still going on? I couldn't connect earlier 16:10:09 and was close to pinging out on this attempt 16:11:30 ais523: weird. I thought it calmed down yesterday fternoon, and SSL is back on track today. 16:13:09 why don't people think about anyone else? 16:13:12 hi boily 16:14:18 because people. 16:14:21 hi quintopia 16:15:28 how is new job 16:16:03 -!- Frooxius has joined. 16:16:36 quintopia: unknown. I start next week. if it is yours, also unknown. 16:16:51 Frhellooxius. 16:17:01 boily: i don't have a new job. you never got me one. 16:17:37 boily: so what are you doing this week? 16:18:57 quintopia: documenting what I was working on, tutorialing the teammates, (subtly) lazying around on IRC and wikipédia... 16:19:17 boily: sounds like a good week to invent a new esolang 16:19:35 boily: you're already better at it than. you're on cpressey's list! 16:19:57 This channel has plenty of lists, doesn't it? 16:20:02 is cpressey's list a list of people who asked about cpressey's list? 16:20:05 if so, I'm on it now, I guess 16:20:17 what is cpressey's list? 16:20:42 boily: you were apparently on it already, no point in asking 16:21:30 ais523: oh well. time to retroactively bask in the Glory of being in Cpressey's List. 16:21:36 ais523: of course you are on it. you are also better at esolang than me 16:23:25 does anyone know what year Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic came out? 16:24:17 quintopia: I'm not convinced I'm better at BF Joust than you, though 16:24:45 I horribly suck at the Joust. 16:24:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:25:10 ais523: i'll concede we are roughly equal there, but that only says we have too much timme on our hands roughly once a year 16:25:28 yeah, I don't have too much time on my hands right now 16:25:45 but I'm upset at my latest strategy not being able to top the hill 16:25:53 even when it beats every other program, it still doesn't top the hill 16:25:58 which is really frustrating 16:26:06 I have to, like, make it beat every other program by more, or something 16:26:21 hmm the original document for HBCHT says it was created 2011. does anyone remember seeing it anywhere before 2011? 16:26:50 Having a Baby Cat Hurl on the Table? 16:27:19 Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic seems likely from context 16:27:21 slereollah 16:27:45 Woops 16:27:48 Wrong channel 16:27:53 Oh wait 16:27:54 No 16:27:57 It is the correct one 16:28:01 What's a HBCHT 16:28:06 ... 16:28:25 Oh right 16:28:28 You answered 16:28:31 NEVERMIND 16:29:08 this is cpressey's list: http://catseye.tc/node/Esolang 16:29:22 there are a number on here i never looked at before 16:29:29 alternatively, it's a BCT variant which uses '0', '1', and 'H'; the 'H'es don't do anything but you have to sprinkle them into the program anyway, much like PLEASE in INTERCAL 16:30:39 hmm, it seems I'm quite good at guessing which of my esolangs would appeal to cpressey 16:30:54 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 16:31:02 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:33:52 re Aubergine: “nothing spectacular, but somewhat cute.” heh :D 16:33:58 -!- johnnie has joined. 16:34:33 hey, who's online right now? 16:34:39 Im surprised at how big this channel is 16:34:52 its pretty big, isn't it? 16:35:01 yep 16:35:23 I get the feeling that we're probably the only two active users right now. 16:35:35 hmm 16:35:37 are we being trolled? 16:35:38 maybe 16:35:43 Or three. 16:35:48 it's been pretty active today 16:35:53 Oh that's good 16:35:58 definitely never seen these two before 16:36:01 also, I've never seen either of you here today 16:36:02 yeah i see lots of words here 16:36:08 that means rainbow welcome time? 16:36:13 `relcome password2 johnnie 16:36:15 nope. and I couldn't `relcome them properly. *cough* Gregor` *cough* 16:36:21 oh, the rainbow welcome bot is down 16:36:22 ais523: the gregorbots are dead. 16:36:35 i though the relcome is a typo 16:36:44 password2: it's a Rainbow wELCOME. 16:36:53 haha 16:36:53 Oh don't worry about it. I'm new to the whole process anyway. I have only one entry on the Esoteric wiki. 16:37:04 !c printf("I'm a gregorbot and I'm not dead!\n"); 16:37:07 johnnie: neat! that's a good start. 16:37:08 I'm a gregorbot and I'm not dead! 16:37:09 And, thanks :) 16:37:16 i have nada 16:37:24 boily: dammit now i'm singing the lumberjack song :( 16:37:45 quintopia: uhm. I would like to say that it's not my fault, but then... 16:37:58 SPAM/1...I'm going to flesh it out some more tonight. I have a lot of good ideas about it. But I need to iron those out. 16:38:00 brb 16:38:12 oh, good, Phantom_Hoover isn't here, so you're safe even if it's a BF derivative 16:38:28 but SPAM/1 isn't a BF derivative so that works even better 16:38:32 johnnie: have you looked at the PDF in the /topic? 16:38:45 I haven't, boily, no. 16:39:38 I'm trying to work in SPAM/1 as part Monty Python joke. SPAM/2 was supposed to have been "SPAM/EGGS/SAUSAGE/SPAM" and SPAM/3 as "I/DONT/LIKE/SPAM" 16:39:38 also, any esolang that requires snailmail to implement is pretty creative 16:39:43 if unlikely to actually be implemented 16:39:55 I think SPAM/1 is probably better just as it is 16:40:46 johnnie: what order does XMTR retrive the stored data in? 16:40:46 I like the idea of BF. I took SPAM/1 is a different direction by making the input minimal instead of making the language minimal. 16:41:54 the thing about BF is that BF itself is pretty good, but people have a tendency to make uncreative minor variations on it 16:41:58 which gets really annoying after a while 16:42:18 BF is great as hell 16:42:26 It's pretty good to prove Turing completeness 16:42:39 I used Dartmouth-BASIC as a model for the bulk of the commands. XMTR is nothing more than a Basic DATA statement. 16:43:14 it's so good that people start to have strange ideas like "this isn't turing-complete because it's not readily obvious how to directly reduce BF to it" 16:43:26 johnnie: oh right 16:43:28 Also if someone asks you to make a compiler at gunpoint? 16:43:33 Bam, make a BF compiler! 16:43:35 You're done 16:43:44 quintopia: boring, like half my languages there's no obvious way to reduce BF to them directly 16:43:53 i get asked to make a compiler at gunpoint every Tuesday 16:43:56 Slereah_: can't I make a Quiler self-compiler? 16:44:04 that targets Quiler? 16:44:05 Slereah_: that's not a situation I think I'd find myself in in the foreseeable future... 16:44:25 (contrary to quintopia, who lives the American Dream every week.) 16:44:26 I think any sequence of bytes fulfils that restriction 16:44:30 You never know! 16:45:01 Slereah_: being forced to write a compiler while a moose is charging towards you, that is more likely for me. 16:45:06 (Quiler is defined as folows: given any input, a Quiler compiler ignores it and outputs a Quiler compiler) 16:45:25 (it is not a massively useful language) 16:45:54 Canadian eh? 16:46:05 Slereah_: pretty much so. Québécois, even. 16:46:19 are mooses inherently Canadian, or just associated with Canada 16:46:22 umm… meese? 16:46:27 meeseses. 16:46:42 boily: are the squirrels black in your area of Quebec too? or just Ottawa? 16:46:44 I'm mulling over a BASIC version of the "LIST" command for SPAM/1. How does this sound...in SPAM/1, LIST "program name" @ "address" will send a printed copy of the list program to the specified address. 16:46:54 johnnie: that seems useful 16:47:26 I think mine is going towards a Chindogu. :) 16:47:32 actually I'm trying to work out if SPAM/1 has the ability to store infinite data 16:47:35 also I had an esolang idea 16:47:42 ais523: there are also meese in maine and alaska and other such northerly places 16:48:01 ais523: i always have esolang ideas 16:48:06 here it is: the only unlimited-size data store available, you can add a datum to it (of fixed maximum size), and remove a random datum from it 16:48:11 that's it 16:48:17 i've got at least 3 just sitting around on paper 16:48:23 can this be TC, I wonder? 16:48:42 ais523: depends on the rest of the language 16:48:46 I gotta get back to work. But it's good to know this place is useful for peer reviewing these ideas. 16:48:48 quintopia: regardless of the rest of the language 16:49:14 remember, this is the /only/ unlimited store, you're pasting it onto an FSM 16:49:29 ais523: we can't disregard the rest of the language. if the rest of the language provides a means to recognize which datum was removed... 16:49:42 quintopia: the store is unordered 16:49:54 ais523: our squirrels are gray. sometimes you get a glimpse of an albino one. 16:49:54 or as in, we have the rest of the language, and we have the store 16:49:56 Bye guys! 16:50:08 johnnie: adieu! 16:50:08 bye 16:50:13 -!- johnnie has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:50:18 and the only way they can communicate is via "add this element", "retrieve a random element" 16:50:53 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:51:13 ais523: okay but still. consider an instruction like "test for divisibility by x and branch" 16:51:31 quintopia: the data themselves are finite size 16:51:39 ais523: then you can store bits as primes 16:51:40 so that's equivalent to a really really large switch-case 16:55:11 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:56:19 what makes a programming language esoteric 16:57:00 I'm not sure there's any hard answer 16:57:14 ais523: yeah i think the unordered thing mostly breaks TC. if only aggregate data are available, you end up with no more than a single perceptron at best. 16:57:14 and there's lots of gray area 16:57:21 any soft ones then :p 16:57:32 password2: yes on the wiki 16:57:39 ah 16:58:03 and the wiki is? 16:58:11 I have a working answer of "there wouldn't be any point in trying to create a useful standard library", but that excludes some languages like Funge-98 16:58:15 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 16:58:17 esolangs.org or something 16:58:25 yeah that 16:58:29 if you haven't gone there yet, do so, the channel makes no sense if you haven't seen the website it's associated with 16:59:04 i have been on ther i think , but it was a few moons ago 16:59:37 tbh i just randomly joined this channel after listing channels on freenode 17:03:08 what? this channel totally makes sense without that wiki, as long as you know esoteric programming languages from other sources 17:03:15 um 17:03:25 or at least it makes as much sense as it makes with the wiki 17:03:36 ais523: i think your definition holds anyone. just because people make libraries for esolangs doesn't mean that there was any point in doing so. 17:03:41 why don't we have the url of the wiki in the channel topic though? 17:03:50 *anyway 17:04:21 maybe because we relcome everyone anyway 17:04:46 or we would 17:05:00 if we had another bot that could 17:05:08 fungot can't even finish a sentence 17:05:08 quintopia: did either book mention schroedinger's cat? :() but i'll put it online :p 17:05:11 ah 17:05:15 that makes sense 17:05:35 relcome 17:07:33 ah, and apparently the url to the wiki is in the chanserv welcome message 17:07:48 or so chanserv claims 17:08:33 wow , my internets is slow 17:09:37 ais523: care to take any bets on how many kb in a SELECT. 99 bottles program. assume it singularizes correctly and prints the optional verse. 17:11:28 http://esolangs.org/wiki/SELECT. 17:11:34 not aware of the language 17:12:44 this is scary 17:12:52 this SELECT. language 17:13:25 -!- atriq has joined. 17:13:48 quintopia: it doesn't seem that different from BF in terms of storage and flow control, so the main difficulty is just the storage for the images 17:14:10 I'm guessing of the order of tens of KB because of that 17:14:34 how do these EXP. and LOG. and SELECT. commands work? 17:15:46 very rapidly 17:16:17 ais523: haha. no and very unlikely. 17:17:06 does it not jump by the distance of the result? 17:17:11 ais523: more reasonable would be in the hundreds of kb with comments and indentation stripped. 17:17:22 quintopia: I think that by picking an appropriate base, you can construct a value that has real>imag change after 256 exps, which are reversible by logs 17:17:22 ais523: but i'll let you know once i've written it. 17:17:33 it depends on what font you use, ofc 17:17:49 how do you copy numbers exactly in this SELECT. language? 17:17:53 ais523: 7pt deja vu sans mono 17:17:57 b_jonas: same way as in BF 17:18:06 really, the numbers are a red herring 17:18:16 you don't want to work with the numbers specifically 17:18:20 but with their mathematical properties 17:18:25 oh yeah complex number , not used to seeing them in a programming language 17:18:30 a typical program's going to store integers, BF-style, but not store them /as/ integers 17:18:37 b_jonas: RIGHT. EXP. LEFT. SELECT. RIGHT. LOG. RIGHT. SELECT. LEFT. will copy a number one cell to the right. 17:18:44 but rather by extracting them from a set of complex numbers that are easily inter-converted 17:19:03 or at least, it seems that quintopia's method of esolang programming is entirely different from mine :-) 17:19:19 quintopia: hmm 17:19:57 quintopia: that seems strange 17:20:41 but my first rule of esolang programming is: even if the esolang has numbers, it's often a bad idea to use them, you can go synthesize your own arithmetic instead if it's easier 17:21:08 -!- EgoBot has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 17:21:30 ais523: is that something you learnt from intercal? 17:21:32 -!- EgoBot has joined. 17:21:45 b_jonas: no, actually using numbers as numbers in INTERCAL isn't so bad 17:22:22 although modern versions are actually TC with no variables involved at all, I think 17:22:41 ais523: yeah, you could definitely just store your numbers as nth exponentiations of i^(1/4)^((1/2)^(1/256)) i suppose, but you'll still have to convert them to output them. 17:22:56 quintopia: I/O is normally comparatively minor although I guess not in 99bob 17:23:15 ais523: um, no variables is a bit going too far 17:23:35 because intercal has very convenient operations variable 17:23:45 b_jonas: sure, but they're also unreadable 17:23:48 I mean, it has array indexing and indexed assignment 17:23:59 if you eschew variables entirely, it mostly just looks like COBOL, which isn't so bad 17:24:01 s/1/2/2/ 17:24:30 you forgot to escape the second / 17:24:36 making that substitution pretty hard to read 17:24:47 well i was lagged out at the time and i knew you'd understand 17:25:04 it took me like 10 seconds to figure it 17:25:40 ah, so in SELECT., the SELECT. statement doesn't write to the cell under the pointer. it writes to where the pointer was when you last did LOG. or EXP. 17:25:55 yes 17:27:12 quintopia: even then that sequence you gave doesn't make sense to me 17:27:23 "RIGHT. EXP. LEFT. SELECT. RIGHT. LOG. RIGHT. SELECT. LEFT. will copy a number one cell to the right." 17:27:55 b_jonas: you have to assume both cells to the right contain the same constant k. 17:28:23 oh. but how do you get such a state if the tape starts from random numbers? 17:28:36 correct me if I'm not mistaken , to write a brainfuck simulator would not be very difficult? 17:28:55 password2: it isn't at all. 17:28:56 password2: not very, no 17:29:02 mmm 17:29:17 b_jonas: the tape starts like ...k k k k k k k k k... 17:29:56 ah! 17:30:08 k is ostensibly randomly selected, but they are all equal, so it doesn't matter 17:30:17 FreeFull: Funnily enough, the under-the-hood representation is RLE-ish. 17:30:19 ^show tmp 17:30:19 ,[.,]+14[>+8>+4>+7>+6<4-]>2+2.-26.>2+3.+14.+7.<+.>+3.-2.<+2.<.<+4.>3+2.<2.>2+5.<+3.-3.<.+73.+5.>2.<.>-2.-4.<-4.<2.>-5.>2+.-.<.>-2.<-65.<-.+13.>2-10.<.>+4.<2-6.<-2.>2.+69.<2+.>.+5.>.<-2.>+4.>-3.-67.<2-2.<-.-3.-8.>+2.<-6.>-5..>.<+.<+6.>3.<2-2.>-8.<+2.<.>+7.>.<2.-2.>3.<3-.>2+4.<-2.>+4.-2.<-5.>2.<-6.<.>+3.>.<3.+.>+2.<+7.>-.+10.<+.>2+.<2+.>-5.>2+.-.<-31.<2+.>-2.>2.<2-5.+2.+3.>+31.>.<+4.<-4.-8.>+6.+3.<2-2.>-5.>+2.<2-4.+6.-.>3+12.-12. 17:30:22 If i'm bored enough , it would make an interesting easter egg 17:30:31 (Away for now.) 17:31:50 easter egg for what 17:32:03 :} 17:32:05 did you figure out anything about that brainfuck-dowhile language btw? 17:32:14 a td 17:32:55 i should eat i've been laying here for two hours being hungry 17:33:42 heh , i'm waiting for mince to defrost so i can start making stirfry 17:33:45 b_jonas: I created a language like that 17:33:48 not sure if it's on the wiki 17:34:07 password2: huh, I didn't think of combining those two foods, but it's kind-of obvious in retrospect 17:34:24 heh 17:34:30 -!- mroman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:34:36 students tends to summon weird combinations 17:34:38 -!- mroman has joined. 17:35:02 they'll eat bread dipped in anything less runny than bread 17:35:45 ais523: we talked about it yesterday. it's a bf variant where a bracket loop runs at least once, so it's like a do-while instead of a while loop. +- commands are modulo 256. 17:36:03 ais523: int-e asked yesterday whether it's turing complete, to which I handwaved a proof that it is. 17:36:32 int-e might have a code generator by today or something. 17:36:39 b_jonas: I designed that ages ago 17:36:49 when I was learning Python live on #esoteric 17:36:54 I see 17:36:54 by entering it into codebots 17:37:03 fun fact: I originally learned to write Python with no newlines 17:37:09 ais523: i'd like to see your version of programming SELECT. honestly, seeing as how mine is so wasteful of tape. or would you just build a compiler from boolfuck or something? 17:37:33 ais523: did you learn it? 17:37:36 which is basically unreadable because you do exec "first line of loop:\n inside of loop", etc. 17:37:39 quintopia: the basics 17:37:52 and yeah, I'd just compile from either boolfuck, or 8-bit non-wrapping BF 17:38:00 ais523: so none of the functional programming/object-oriented aspects? 17:38:12 quintopia: I learned those later, not live in #esoteric 17:38:14 i assume in BF the instructions and memory is not the same space? 17:38:19 although it doesn't really have any functional programming aspects 17:38:23 apart from functions being barely first-class 17:38:37 like, I think they were upgraded from economy class rather than buying the more expensive ticket 17:38:39 password2: indeed 17:38:45 ah 17:38:46 fizzie: bf has a lot of repeated symbols, so rle is perfect 17:38:46 basically I argued that you can translate (bf without the io) to bf-dowhile, for which you have to simulate each cell with a sequence of multiple cells. the translation is a bit wasteful but nothing unexpected for bf. 17:38:46 completely seperate 17:38:54 this is usually (but not always) the case in esolangs 17:38:54 ais523: well yeah, but you can treat it functionally by having functions that take and return functions 17:39:03 And it's faster to add 30 at once than to add 1 30 times 17:39:12 however, bf-dowhile can't quite have all values of a bf program because there's some io you can't do. 17:39:13 you can see http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Self-modifying for esolangs where the code can be used as data, in one way or another 17:39:26 b_jonas: we decided it was TC last time this came up, too 17:39:29 but I can't remember why 17:39:45 and yeah, it's obviously impossible to write a dofuck program which sometimes produces output and sometimes doesn't 17:39:57 so you can't write cat, for instance, if you want it to work correctly on null input 17:39:58 it's called dofuck? we didn't know it had a name 17:40:11 that's what I called it, back then 17:40:15 in camelcase, DoFuck 17:40:15 great 17:40:23 but it's such an obvious idea it's probably been invented more than twice 17:40:36 DoFuck's easier to impl than BF, btw 17:40:49 because you only have to be able to move the IP backwards, not forwards 17:40:54 yeah 17:41:00 err, by more than one instruction at a time 17:41:23 a language where the IP /only/ moves backwards is going to be sub-TC unless it's self-modifying or has first class functions or uses some other loophole I didn't think of 17:42:05 (the first version looks something like SMITH, the second version arguably describes Underload) 17:42:17 if I have to choose, I prefer bf 17:42:30 you don't have to choose, normally 17:42:31 over dofuck that is 17:42:40 How about a language where values are stored in the IP? 17:42:41 password2: if you like languages with the instructions and data mixed , ire  recommend Aubergunine (hi oboily) 17:43:00 stupid lag dropping my backspaces 17:43:09 that's Aubergine 17:43:10 FreeFull: that's almost equivalent to just storing them in a register 17:43:14 possibly completely equivalent 17:43:20 quintopia: your backspaces echoed literally 17:43:23 which is quite impressive 17:43:33 ais523: Except it jumps where you are in code 17:43:40 quintopia, by no means 17:43:47 FreeFull: you mean storing them in the instruction? 17:43:48 its get confuzing 17:43:57 my first, still unpublished, esolang worked like that 17:44:05 ais523: No, the instruction pointer itself 17:44:15 and my client doesn't even understand the characters of what you said 17:44:21 FreeFull: you mean the memory address that holds the location of the instruction pointer? 17:44:22 doesn't arm-32 sort of work like that? 17:44:22 Although I guess that wouldn't be useful unless you had instruction memory aliasing 17:44:44 i've already written a cheat-quine in Aubergine. I should write a self-deleting program. That sounds ... i don't even know it's possible. it probably isn't 17:44:49 but really, I don't understand what FreeFull wants to say 17:44:59 ais523: I mean, you write a value to the instruction pointer, so now it points at a different position in the instructions 17:45:09 So basically storing data in a jump 17:45:10 FreeFull: that's just a computed jump 17:45:32 FreeFull: oh, so you just mean memory-mapping the instruction pointer? 17:45:33 but certainly, the instruction pointer /stack/ is a very common way to store data in esolangs 17:45:40 With aliasing for the instruction memory, you could use it to pass a value to the code 17:45:53 one nice rule of thumb is "two stacks = TC", which obviously has loads of exceptions but is still reasonably reliable in practice 17:46:16 -!- atehwa has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:46:16 -!- int-e has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:46:18 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 17:46:49 What about two queues? 17:46:50 if you're having trouble proving a language TC, using the call stack as one is often a wise idea 17:46:51 i suppose it miiiiiiiiiiight be possible to write a Aubergine program that overwrites itself with a's 17:46:52 FreeFull: even one queue is often (but not always) enough 17:46:56 FreeFull: one queue is enough 17:47:03 see http://esolangs.org/wiki/DownRight, for instance 17:47:27 but it's much easier to design a one-queue language that isn't TC than a two-stack language that isn't TC, by accident 17:48:14 (obviously both are trivial if you're trying, e.g. you could have two stacks but no commands that manipulate them) 17:49:13 one queue reminds me to those very old home-built computers using a disk, before ram existed 17:49:14 -!- int-e has joined. 17:49:17 hi, int-e 17:49:21 now i want to design a language that has two stacks and a queue and is TC, but becomes sub-TC if you remove any one of the three 17:49:49 b_jonas: now you reminded me of delay line memory 17:50:02 have you heard of that? it was used before magnetic core memory was invented, as in a really /really/ long time ago 17:50:25 int-e: that bf-dowhile language we were talking about, ais523 calls it "DoFuck", says he also thinks it's turing-complete, and says "it's such an obvious idea it's probably been invented more than twice" 17:50:28 basically data is stored using vibrations in a trough full of mercury, you put the data in at one end, and it comes out the other end a few seconds later 17:50:36 ais523: yes 17:51:15 it's crazy 17:51:23 I'm too young for these 17:52:27 back from lunch, and I didn't eat aubergines. hi o quintopia! 17:52:34 did you also know that PAL decoders involve delay lines in quartz crystals? 17:52:50 i have seen one of those delay memorys on hackaday 17:52:53 very awesome 17:52:56 olsner: I didn't know that 17:53:10 sound and piezo works as makeshift version 17:53:18 (electric signals go in, vibrate the quartz, the vibrations zig zag across the crystal for exactly 60µs (or whatever the delay is), reach the other end and become electricity again) 17:53:18 wow 17:53:27 crazy 17:53:57 and then the outgoing signal (the last scanline) is compared to the current scanline to figure out the colors 17:55:58 I'm not an EE or a hardware guy, I don't really understand how classical television works in general. 17:56:06 me neither 17:56:24 I am an EE, so I have more of an idea 17:56:32 I treat it as a black box, so to speak 17:56:56 ais523: hi there, fellow engineer :D 17:57:20 and I don't use analog video signals these days at all if I can avoid them 17:59:44 oo a EE 17:59:54 you see more of em than CE on the tubes 18:03:57 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:03:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 18:04:12 Maaaan 18:04:21 i tried changing my registers to optimize some stuff 18:04:32 But then "Gotta use ax for that!" 18:04:32 Dang 18:04:36 ax you are a monster 18:04:43 Your thirst for power knows no end 18:05:40 that sounds dangerous "i tried changing my registers to optimize some stuff" 18:05:40 :p 18:06:10 Well i'm doing some basic graphics with x86 18:06:23 ok 18:06:24 And i'm like "man, I'm tired of having to switch registers around" 18:06:34 So I tried to do another order with less saving involved 18:06:35 But no 18:07:03 lol i read that as resistors , instead of registers 18:07:44 password2: just about the same thing. make a mistake and *FOOM* there goes the magic smoke. 18:07:52 heh 18:07:54 hehe 18:08:05 Though I did learn about the bswap trick 18:08:07 It is quite neat 18:08:17 Less shitty than popping and stacking 18:08:28 ~duck bwsap 18:08:28 --- No relevant information 18:08:31 ~duck bswap 18:08:31 --- No relevant information 18:08:39 * boily mapoles the Duck 18:08:56 bswap is to swap the 16 bits in a 32 bits registers 18:09:10 I thought bswap reversed all the bytes in a register 18:09:15 Slereah_: oh. shiny! 18:09:31 Like [abcd....][xyz...] -> [xyz...][abcd...] 18:09:55 x86 bswap does reverse the order of all 4 or 8 bytes. 18:10:04 It doesn't swap the two 16-bit halves. 18:10:09 Doesn't it? 18:10:10 Hm 18:10:14 Misread it I guess 18:10:29 a rotate by 16 bits should work though 18:10:36 meh , am in a sound war with a firstyear 18:10:57 "Reverses the byte order of a 32-bit (destination) register: bits 0 through 7 are swapped with bits 24 through 31, and bits 8 through 15 are swapped with bits 16 through 23. " 18:10:59 Ah yes 18:11:44 http://www.c-jump.com/CIS77/asm_images/bswap_eax.png 18:11:47 So close and yet so far 18:12:26 Let's go with a ROL 18:12:31 that gives you abcd -> dcba, you just need abcd -> badc to turn that into abcd -> cdab 18:12:31 heh 18:12:32 Is that a dedicated instruction? bswap, I mean 18:12:46 I don't know whether there's an instruction for that though 18:12:56 FireFly: It is, though only since the 486. 18:13:31 Well a rotation will work 18:13:49 You get more mileage out of 32 bit registers that way 18:15:16 If all you want is to use the high bits of eax as "shadow space" for ax, you can keep using bswap too. 18:15:32 Since the byte order reversal doesn't matter. 18:16:20 Hm 18:16:23 True 18:16:30 Let's go back with bswap then 18:16:57 Thanks 18:17:56 Plus unlike pops, you can disregard the order 18:20:24 Probably saves two bytes, too, if the 486-dependency isn't a problem. ("0F C8+rd BSWAP" vs. "C1 /0 ib ROL r/m32, imm8" with an operand-size override prefix byte in 16-bit mode.) 18:21:10 Or, well. I can't really deduce whether BSWAP also needs an operand-size override. 18:22:10 "When the BSWAP instruction references a 16-bit register, the result is undefined", it says. Maybe that means it does. Saves a byte, anyway. 18:24:31 maybe it means intel and amd do it differently 18:28:06 I was sort of assuming that since BSWAP only exists for 32 bits, it'd have an implicit default operand size of 32, but if they've bothered to put in that statement (and don't say so explicitly), I guess it probably doesn't. 18:31:33 Hm, my gay squares stopped changing color 18:31:42 I guess I changed the value of ah by mistake 18:33:07 fungot: do you change ah, eh? 18:33:08 boily: what does gnu stand for? yeah reading, wiki, so it doesn't need to 18:33:34 fungot: I don't think that's on the Wiki™ 18:33:34 FireFly: ' right' 18:33:56 Oh wait, stosb inputs al, not ah 18:34:00 dang 18:34:14 fungot: GNU's Noodly Unix. 18:34:15 fizzie: oh ok, what file format should be scheme :) somebody'd probably implement it 18:35:00 I'm fairly sure somebody's already implemented scheme 18:36:29 fungot: did you forget? they already did implement scheme 18:36:29 olsner: darn this tab completion. i defined the scheme callback with a c world. 18:37:09 Woo, my squares are gay again 18:38:10 But the screen clearing still fucks up 18:39:32 fungot: you sound like me, blasphemating against the Evil Tab Completion. 18:39:32 boily: ( define ( safe-apply func. args) ( for-each display args) ( car ' ' a" to *a* 18:39:55 ehm, wtf, my internet bank is running some kind of analytics script ... from a third-party web server with an expired certificate 18:41:23 Slereah_, were they straight? 18:42:03 password2 : The program displays squares, and then increment the color 18:42:11 Making them going through rainbow cycles 18:42:26 ah , but you said they are gay 18:42:37 Yes 18:42:44 :D 18:42:47 As gay as a three dollar bill, if bills were square 18:43:19 heh 18:43:37 http://pastebin.com/Yx1V0kK6 18:43:54 olsner: block it 18:43:55 Does someone have any idea why the screen clearing hides the upper part of the screen 18:44:04 ais523: yep, done 18:44:09 Every cycle, I delete the screen by blackening it 18:44:18 And redoing the squares in the next cycle 18:44:34 But for some reason, the first 15 or so rows are totally black no matter what 18:44:35 oooh , i cant remember when last i used assembly 18:45:18 third-party scripts you can't verify are a major malware source 18:46:12 i found a easyway to make any linux fanboy install malware 18:47:06 i tried moving the screen clearing to various places 18:47:22 Before the drawing, after the drawing, after checking for the next screen display 18:47:26 But nothing works 18:48:02 you probably need to vsync 18:48:08 I did 18:48:21 At label vsync0 and vsync1 18:49:29 hmm, are you sure dx has the expected value when you get there? I don't know what the calling convention of those interrupts are, but they might clobber it 18:50:17 Let's see 18:50:30 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:51:31 hm. the guys over at /r/vxjunkies don't have much information pertaining to vsync problems. 18:51:37 Taneb: are you back from your lecture? 18:52:59 Well 18:53:06 I guess a test would be to remove the vsyncs and see what changes 18:53:19 Or add a mov dx whatever 18:53:21 Or both! 18:54:12 Heh 18:54:22 Removing the vsync actually works slightly better! 18:54:34 I can see all squares, but they all kinda flicker 18:54:48 Maybe it's a speed problem? 18:55:20 or maybe the emulator isn't emulating vsync at all 18:58:26 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:59:25 Possibly 18:59:40 .com files don't play on my computer unfortunately 19:00:07 But I played many vidyah gehms on dosbox and it seems to have no problem with graphics 19:00:39 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:00:45 What's a good place to ask assembly questions? 19:00:57 (Outside of "The 1970's") 19:03:33 the 1980's might also be ok 19:03:59 I don't have any hairband 19:06:45 there is #assembly (iirc) on freenode, and when it's not plagued by "I almost know a bit of C, how do I make an OS?" #osdev would have people that know assembly 19:06:54 or you just ask fizzie 19:07:21 olsner: is there a #fizzie chännel? 19:07:30 boily: I'm guessing not 19:07:58 boily: also, pretty sure it's spelled channel 19:09:31 beuh... 19:10:02 böilü 19:10:25 ïn̈ẗ-ë 19:10:34 I'm slightly disappointed, is there really no lower case version of Ÿ? 19:10:46 ÿ? 19:10:47 ÿ? 19:10:49 olsner: boily has been umlauting random letters for a while 19:11:07 and isn't ÿ the last character in Latin-1? 19:11:14 thanks 19:11:39 ais523: oh. indeed. 19:11:56 that gives it some sort of distinction 19:12:09 the ultimate letter 19:12:27 `unidecode ÿ 19:12:34 oh right 19:12:45 * boily unicodely mapoles Gregor` 19:12:56 no hackego? *gasp* 19:13:30 `help 19:13:32 !c printf("%x", 'ÿ') 19:13:35 c3bf 19:13:40 huh, it's Firefox that causes my compose key to stop working 19:14:01 > fromEnum 'ÿ' 19:14:02 255 19:14:06 -!- evalj has joined. 19:14:07 huh, EgoBot interpreted my UTF-8 as Latin-1 19:14:19 but you can tell it's 255 anyway if you have UTF-8 encoding memorised 19:14:25 I don't, but I know about the C2 and C3 ranges 19:15:54 oh, so that became a multicharacter character literal 19:16:58 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 19:20:02 yeah, and those are impl-defined 19:20:11 but I believe gcc's handing is to concatenate the bytes 19:20:43 which is usually the right handling anyway 19:21:06 !c printf("%x", *u8"ÿ"); 19:21:08 Does not compile. 19:21:21 even if I got the syntax right, that's C11 19:21:31 !c printf("%ld", __STDC_VERSION__); 19:21:34 199901 19:21:39 and that compiler's C99 19:21:43 I would sort of be happier with "nope, that's not a character", but I think there's some legacy that needs them 19:22:45 what does *u8"ÿ" mean? 19:23:05 I think u8"string" means "this string is UTF-8", in some sense 19:23:07 something like that 19:23:09 let me check the docs 19:23:17 and the * is just a pointer dereference as normal 19:23:35 which on a utf8 string just gives the first byte? 19:23:39 yep 19:24:31 and I remembered right, it is u8"string" for a UTF-8 literal 19:24:35 now I'm looking up what those do 19:25:13 ] 3 u:7 u: 'ÿ 0A[é' 19:25:13 b_jonas: 255 32 48 65 91 233 19:25:26 aha, if you do u8"string", then the contents of the string are interpreted as in the source multibyte character set, and converted to UTF-8 19:25:37 whereas normally they'd be converted to the execution narrow or wide character set 19:25:49 aah, that seems actually useful 19:25:49 ais523: ^ that can show the unicode values 19:25:57 ] 3 u:7 u: 'őű' 19:25:58 b_jonas: 337 369 19:26:02 takes utf8 19:26:03 does J have an explicit map command, or is map too low-level? 19:26:20 ais523: sort of yes 19:26:21 wait, is that second letter a ü or a ű? 19:26:24 they look pretty similar in this font 19:26:28 ű I guess 19:26:37 yes, ű (with double acute) 19:26:48 huh, is double acute what it's called? 19:26:55 I always thought of it as an acute umlaut 19:26:56 double acute accent 19:27:05 `unidecode ő 19:27:06 it's an umlaut made of acutes 19:27:11 HackEgo... 19:27:17 but I guess you don't write ȯ for the un-umlauted, un-acute version 19:27:21 a cute accent, hmm. 19:27:23 fungot: what did you do with HackEgo 19:27:23 kmc: riastradh believes beginners have to know 19:27:47 fungot: I want to know 19:27:47 olsner: are you looking for an angry fix! 19:27:53 was Riastradh in here at some point? 19:27:55 oh, #scheme 19:28:50 @remember Riastradh Actually, there are a lot of 'factorization challenges' where you can win a lot more than 200,000 USD if you manage to factor a 2048-bit RSA modulus, but you might have to watch out for the cops if you enter and win these challenges. 19:28:50 Done. 19:29:40 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 19:29:45 hichaf_ 19:29:58 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 19:29:58 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 19:30:06 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:30:11 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 19:30:20 higan 19:30:38 hi fungot 19:30:38 shachaf: or is there a way to make scheme code readable to people who are using scheme in your head 19:30:42 fungot: i'm looking for an angry fix! 19:30:42 kmc: i would, but no cryptanalysis stuff. he does not know about them 19:30:54 scheme? in *my* head? it's more likely than you think 19:31:08 fungot: there is a crack in everything, that's how the scheme gets in 19:31:08 kmc: but i mean for " touching" 19:31:15 fungot: you generally don't let other people use scheme in your head ... at least not in public 19:31:16 olsner: the pointer is the instruction layer featuring all the instructions like ". though britain is more humid than finland i guess. it's the sort of thing 19:31:17 fungot: good touch or bad touch 19:31:17 kmc: is it still not yet even a complete superset of the lambda symbol... who cares that an os should never need to touch asm to get anything across. 19:32:21 -!- EgoBot has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 19:32:27 I wonder if my laundry is done so I can go to bed 19:32:53 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:33:08 EgoBot: are you HackEgo? 19:33:19 `relcome kmc 19:34:10 boily: i just opened a bag of Takis, and the act of pulling the bug open launched a tiny crumb of peppery deliciousness directly into my right eye. 19:34:18 WITH MY GLASSES ON 19:35:00 fungot: are you HackEgo? 19:35:00 shachaf: how's life? :o 19:35:09 fungot: :o 19:35:10 shachaf: i think i've almost maybe got it. 19:35:30 fungot: got what 19:35:30 shachaf: but they too were small, something like hash-tables consisting of variable-name/ value? i'm not sure it will! 19:36:50 quintopia: usually only grapefruits being peeled can manage to snipe one's eyes. a piece of Takis must be painful too! 19:37:39 * ais523 confuses boily with fungot 19:37:40 ais523: have a look when i get around 30 spam per day on the bike 19:38:01 i too confuse fungot 19:38:01 kmc: last year, their servers were cracked. 19:38:05 fungot: o no 19:38:05 kmc: like in the case of scheme48, every structure has its own scripting language and compiler)?? has type fnord, it messes up vim's highlight mode 19:38:39 I am a Master Confungotter! 19:38:40 boily: take the difference of whether or not it deserves to be read. this wouldn't be so surprised. few people ever use the ( cl-style), you have to browse deitti.net before i find myself in an annoying and stupidly offensive way too, so... 19:39:56 ais523 uses fungot to confuse boily 19:39:56 shachaf: we have one of each. :) it's so absurd it's hilarious. my favorite topping is pepperoni. interesting... 19:40:09 cofungot 19:40:09 kmc: way to go if i were obfuscating it i wouldn't have, but it 19:40:20 fungot: but it 19:40:21 shachaf: let me see if i have a function that returns the source of a builtin function, not sure if i ever think something geeky is funny, because so many people 19:41:17 fungot: so many people 19:41:18 shachaf: and i don't know if that is what i was thinking it had something to do 19:48:08 -!- atehwa_ has changed nick to atehwa. 19:49:51 -!- conehead has joined. 19:51:20 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:01:19 fungot: got fun? 20:01:20 FireFly: i understand the problem now? can i use 20:03:15 * boily selfconfuses himself 20:04:24 * FireFly uses full heal 20:05:11 * boily impersonates a spacial vortex and randomly blinks around 20:06:26 I won't be healed as easily as you think you are healing, Mr. FireFly! muah ah ah ah ah! 20:06:34 (said in a bad supervillain voice) 20:06:44 Argh 20:06:59 oh, btw, I surmised you're of the “Mr.” kind. 20:07:17 That is indeed the case 20:12:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:24:30 I believe I have finally mastered Assembly https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19940612/Graphic8.COM 20:25:02 Slereah_: if I happen to want to potentially execute that on my machine, what should I do? 20:25:52 dosbox, mount, type the name? 20:26:30 fizzie: that's what I did, and I now understand the “gay squares”. 20:26:35 Either you can just open it directly (esc to quit) or use dosbox 20:26:55 you can just ron "dosbox graphic8.com" can't you 20:26:58 run* 20:27:05 fungot: fongut 20:27:05 kmc: my answer: probably :p probably good for prototype. chicken will probably be using is ( fnord 20:27:21 kmc: Huh, that's convenient. 20:27:21 see, you can probably run that 20:28:03 I probably ran that. 20:28:25 if i run an arbitrary .com file with dosbox can it do things to my computer outside the dosbox 20:29:04 shachaf: i spent a little while looking for such exploits, but didn't find any 20:29:17 I don't think dosbox is really focusing on sandbox security, however. 20:29:22 it is easy to segfault dosbox with an invalid x86 instruction but it's just a NULL dereference 20:29:44 kmc: How about a TSR that manages to fake in some commands to the dosbox shell, which has mount &c.? 20:29:55 you can run mount /some/directory somedrive: in dosbox, can't you 20:30:00 can a .com program not do that 20:30:08 that could work; I don't know if mount is restricted 20:30:13 shachaf: it could probably insert the keystrokes for that into the keyboard buffer 20:30:18 It's not restricted when you type it in, at least. 20:36:39 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:38:26 Interestingly, the "mount" is not a shell builtin, but a separate MOUNT.COM on the virtual Z: drive. 20:38:33 You can copy it elsewhere, and run, and it still works. 20:38:58 (The contents are the 20 bytes ndisasm'd at http://sprunge.us/aiAF) 20:39:39 So presumably you might not even need to play tricks with the input buffer, just use the same int 21h interfaces. 20:41:25 (All the other commands in Z: are also 20-byte files that only differ in their last bytes.) 20:43:24 For the record, int 21h/AH=4Ah is supposed to be "DOS 2+ - RESIZE MEMORY BLOCK" -- resize the block pointed to by ES to have a new size of BX paragraphs. 20:44:20 did you look that up in RBIL 20:44:31 Yes, of course. 20:45:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:45:23 hooray for RBIL 20:46:12 I actually learned that DOS has malloc/free/realloc as interrupts from a paper book 20:48:13 * impomatic has a copy of Ralf Brown's Interrupt List as a paper book! 20:53:58 Damn MS DOS is way too fast for an animation! 20:54:00 fizzie: the really funny thing is that the files on Z: are almost the same; they only differ in their last byte, as far as I can see. 20:54:13 If I try to move a square to simulate MOVEMENT I see three at once! 20:54:15 int-e: (All the other commands in Z: are also 20-byte files that only differ in their last bytes.) 20:54:21 Maybe I should use the timer instead 20:54:24 Slereah_: move it more slowly then 20:54:33 But how! 20:54:37 fizzie: sorry. 20:54:39 also, the timer in DOS runs at 19.2Hz 20:54:42 which is normally too slow to be useful 20:54:45 int-e: Turns out the int 21h/AH=4Ah bits are just regular code, and it's the invalid opcode FE /8 that does something DOSBox-specific. 20:54:47 although I think you can customize it to be faster 20:54:57 fizzie: exactly 20:55:04 yeah, but I need the screen to refresh at like 20:55:09 24 per second or something 20:55:11 (FE /0 is INC r/m8, and FE /1 is DEC r/m8, but the other reg digits of FE are not used.) 20:55:14 That should be enough no? 20:55:35 Oh wait, I guess that's 24 hertz 20:55:35 Hm 20:55:46 I guess I can wait for a couple of vsyncs 20:56:06 fizzie: though you probably want FE /7 20:56:13 int-e: Yes, a typo/thinko. I think there's actually just two pointers following the FE /7. 20:56:26 Let's wait for 16 vsyncs 20:58:07 Oh, the code's right there in misc/programs.cpp: http://sprunge.us/SCHM 20:59:36 And the final byte is an index into a table. 21:00:38 http://sprunge.us/iWHa love that "//MEM LEAK" comment. 21:04:56 Apparently two vsyncs are enough 21:06:38 Notwithstanding the funky callback mechanism, it still seems possible for a program to programmatically call the mount-program callback, by setting up the memory properly. 21:10:06 in 320x200 mode, vsyncs should have a frequency of 70 Hz. 21:10:18 fungot: do you notwithstand funkies? 21:10:18 boily: great. should i care about" level. 21:17:04 int-e : So 2 in a row is about 30 images per second 21:17:06 which is fine 21:17:20 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:21:06 Hm 21:22:10 Once I do two vsyncs, I have less problems with the screen clearing 21:22:17 But the upper part of the screen still flickers 21:23:05 The first 30 pixel rows or so 21:23:24 it takes a while to clear the screen and draw the squares 21:24:26 Yes, but the squares stay on the screen for a while as well 21:24:40 Hm 21:24:44 what to do 21:25:05 I could do a function that removes the shapes instead 21:26:36 I don't suppose I can do something much faster to clear the screen than rep stosd 21:29:15 tough. draw to a memory buffer; copy that over. or learn to use VGA's "unchained mode". then there's 4 pages worth of graphics memory, but you need some IO to actually access it (it interleaves 4 planes of memory). I never really did that. 21:31:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_X links to http://www.gameprogrammer.com/3-tweak.html which looks useful 21:31:41 I think the best solution is to implement a function that deletes the shapes and move them before reprinting them 21:32:09 Slereah_: honestly I'd probably do the render to screen buffer, then blit thing. 21:32:19 err. to memory buffer 21:32:43 blit? 21:32:46 copy 21:33:14 "block image transfer" 21:35:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: FISHY CHICKEN). 21:36:00 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:16 Soon, I will be able to do a pong! 21:45:16 You can also see http://www.brackeen.com/vga/unchain.html for a simplish overview, I think I have used that page. 21:45:38 Thanks 21:46:48 It has both basic double buffering (draw to in-memory buffer and memcpy -- in your case, perhaps rep stosd -- to video memory) and proper page flipping which needs the masked-write stuff. 21:48:31 Er, mov, not sto. 22:03:59 What you can do is chained mode 256x256 with 256 colours 22:04:08 Which is convienient for some stuff 22:05:01 256x256 would be great 22:05:21 Instead of doing sums and substractions I can just check for overflows 22:08:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:10:39 hm, this seems fun 22:10:54 apparently the trøndelag region has had more wildfires so far this year as _all_ of last year. and about half of them last week. 22:11:04 *than 22:11:06 Ouch 22:11:46 oerjan: Norway has wildfires in February? 22:11:54 it doesn't seem like an obvious month for them 22:11:58 ais523: and january 22:12:13 ais523: it's very unprecedented. 22:13:07 basically no precipitation since jan 11 22:13:21 and plenty of strong wind. 22:13:25 there's less than usual in the UK, too, in that it hasn't been /constantly/ raining 22:13:35 although there was a thunderhailstorm at one point 22:13:43 which is rare in January, those normally happen in the summer 22:14:15 i recall also in the newspaper some firefighter saying they hadn't experienced such a bad month before at _any_ time of year. 22:15:40 let's start a conspiracy that putin made this to get good weather in russia for the olympics. 22:15:56 meanwhile california is in the middles of our worst ever drought 22:16:22 kmc: oh i thought the us was buried in snow. i guess not all of it. 22:16:27 indeed 22:17:57 i understand much of europe is having bad weather of various kinds 22:18:26 or at least strange 22:19:04 oerjan: all of the northern hemisphere is, I think 22:19:18 because the polar vortex that's meant to be over the arctic went and visited the US instead 22:19:51 ais523: well that's the us, but does that explain the high pressure zone over russia too? 22:20:07 possibly 22:20:18 I'm not that knowledgeable about how weather works 22:20:24 (but then, neither is anyone else) 22:20:50 i understand they can connect the polar vortex moving to global warming, although not in a way that convinces republicans. 22:21:23 "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" 22:22:11 kmc: is that a quote 22:22:16 yes 22:22:20 hence the marks of quotation 22:22:27 "this is not a quote" 22:22:34 ceci n'est etc 22:22:52 kmc: what we need to do is convince them that it will kill their children. 22:23:36 good luck 22:24:00 well that's the only thing americans are more furious about than money, isn't it 22:24:55 depends on the cause 22:25:27 if it's school shootings then there's nothing we can do, the government has no place in regulating devices whose literal only purpose is to kill large numbers of people quickly 22:27:32 I sense sarcasm 22:28:38 sarcasm and insanity are the two only ways for americans to (temporarily) survive 22:30:39 FreeFull: so how's the weather in poland 22:32:10 I'm not in Poland, I was just born there 22:32:16 wat 22:32:18 I'm in England, and the weather sucks. Lots of flooding 22:32:45 I HAVE BEEN DECEIVED 22:34:56 here it's nice, warm (night temperature record yesterday) and dry. got a match? 22:39:29 FreeFull: can you ship some of your water over to california 22:40:35 kmc: Don't have the means of doing that, sorry 22:40:38 also here 22:41:43 I'd happily swap water for snow 22:41:55 Although I guess others wouldn't appreciate it as much 22:44:20 Oh, that's just the same. <-- 5 is the most recent version. 22:46:01 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:59:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:59:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 22:59:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 23:01:26 can this be TC, I wonder? <-- it seems to me that this is a bag of tokens where you cannot reliably detect that a token is not present unless the bag is completely empty. 23:02:26 oerjan: yep 23:02:50 and with only finitely many tokens 23:02:58 perhaps you could do something based on probabilities, though 23:03:16 well there would be a chance of failure 23:03:53 it's like, you have just too little to implement fractran 23:03:59 (or Bag) 23:04:00 yeah, but you can just reset the program if you detect a failure 23:04:17 it'd work fine if you could detect failure reliably 23:04:31 i don't think it can be detected... 23:05:13 like, say you use a representation where you have X copies of element A, Y copies of element B, min(X,Y) copies of element C 23:05:37 oh hm 23:05:41 then you can compare X to Y by repeatedly removing items in the order C, A, B, C, A, B… 23:05:48 and restarting the entire program if they come out in the wrong order 23:05:54 it's unclear how you'd set that situation up to start with, though 23:05:57 Woo 23:06:05 I made a rectangle that moves if you press up or down 23:06:14 THE FUTURE OF VIDEO GAME IS NIGH GUYS 23:06:19 I AM WORKING ON THIS AMAZING IDEA 23:06:28 TABLE TENNIS ON A COMPUTER 23:06:37 You'll see it will be huge 23:06:53 I call it electric entertainment 23:07:01 Slereah_: I'm not sure it'll work, computers aren't particularly flat, making it unfair, and there might not be enough space to get a decent serve either 23:07:07 ais523: ok maybe you can do something that works like a nondeterministic turing machine, in that _if_ it halts without detecting a failure it will have calculated the right result. 23:07:07 although attaching the net shouldn't be too difficult 23:07:21 You'll see ais523 23:07:27 oerjan: right, that's the computational class I was aiming for anyway 23:07:27 although it might not be able to restart a computation. 23:07:32 It will be even bigger than Ball in a Cup 23:07:37 if a failure is detected. 23:07:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx4IEmZNegg 23:09:14 oerjan: just keep extracting tokens until there aren't any more 23:09:21 then jump back to the start of the program 23:09:24 restarting is trivial 23:09:35 hm 23:10:07 ais523: ok as long as input is encoded in the program, which is enough for tc of course 23:10:26 yep 23:22:16 anyway, it's not obviously TC 23:22:22 and not obviously sub-TC 23:22:29 which is always a property I like in esolangs 23:24:24 now all we need is an interesting FSM to hook it up to 23:24:34 preferably a pretty powerful one 23:24:42 and we have a new interesting esolang 23:32:58 actually, there's a neat equivalent way to write this that's more efficient 23:33:16 instead of removing entirely at random 23:33:27 commands can give a set of values they want to remove 23:33:41 if any are in the random bag, one is removed at random, otherwise the program enters an infinite loop 23:37:39 i vaguely recall there is a theorem that is relevant to this, if i can find it again. 23:40:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:48:31 ais523: so you are accepting that a program might loop infinitely instead of ever halting even if it could? 23:48:42 oerjan: yes, but with zero probability 23:48:52 hm 23:49:01 I normally only care about positive probabilities when it comes to nondeterministic languages 23:53:23 * oerjan cannot remember what it's called 23:56:18 oh i think it may be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickson%27s_lemma 23:56:38 (that's not what i remember, but it may be the relevant special case) 23:57:45 this reminds me of subturing oracles 23:58:09 or well, subturing language + oracle that might bring it up to some higher computational class 23:59:17 Couldn't Fancy L be called a subturing oracle 2014-02-05: 00:00:32 ais523: btw the relevance of this lemma if i'm thinking correctly is that any unbounded computation in your language _must_ eventually return to the same program point but with a >= bag than the previous time 00:01:14 which means you can sort of solve the halting problem. 00:01:30 for it. 00:01:55 although this doesn't take into account that probabilities may be zero. 00:02:15 I don't think having a >= bag than last time means you're in the same program tate 00:02:44 no, you must be in the same point _and_ have a >= bag 00:03:06 same IP too 00:03:34 ais523: well the thing is, if you return with a >= bag then it is theoretically _possible_ for you to loop infinitely. 00:03:55 actually, yes, it is 00:03:59 err, does 00:05:08 because you can repeat the same cycle again and get an even larger bag, etc. 00:05:38 yes 00:06:03 clearly, it's impossible to reliably distinguish any bag from a bag that's <= it 00:06:54 yeah 00:07:14 so you'd have to resort to some sort of probabilistic algorithm 00:10:38 i am not entirely sure when i previously looked at this lemma but it may have been in connection with proving that fractran cannot be tc with unordered rules. although i vaguely think that has a simpler proof. 00:12:07 fractran with unordered rules feels slightly analogous to your language somehow. 00:12:59 well unordered fractran can definitely be simulated by this language 00:13:24 let X be the largest number of primes consumed by a rule 00:13:30 start with X primes that don't appear in any rule 00:13:43 repeatedly, take out X items, if they match the numerator of a rule replace them with the denominator 00:13:47 if they don't, put them back and try again 00:15:00 right 00:16:14 can we simulate in the other direction? 00:16:56 hm... 00:17:26 perhaps we can, we can make a prime for each program position to flag it 00:19:42 yes, i think you can easily do any state machine that goes to a new state based on tokens removed from bag, and adds other tokens 00:21:11 the probabilities may be slightly different, since you will be checking for a particular (set of) token(s) to remove with a rule 00:21:30 oh hm 00:22:06 i'm not sure that's a problem. 00:23:05 you just have a prime for each instruction pointer position 00:23:11 and an entirely separate set of fraction for each 00:23:13 then it works 00:23:38 q.essentially.d 00:24:39 I'm actually surpried 00:24:41 *surprised 00:24:51 I tend to assume everything that isn't completely obviously sub-TC is TC 00:25:33 well i'm not sure we've proved unordered fractran is "probabilistically" non-tc 00:26:05 just that you cannot force halting. 00:26:24 although it wouldn't be too surprising if it's non-tc altogether. 00:27:40 also the mutual simulations do _not_ preserve probabilities well - in unordered fractran, you choose rules uniformly, while in your language you choose bag tokens uniformly. 00:28:04 and i don't see a way to compensate for that. 00:29:27 if you had a bag with 1 of each token except for one of which you had a million, there would be a great bias. 00:29:42 ah right 00:32:40 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:44:47 int-e: that bf-dowhile language we were talking about, ais523 calls it "DoFuck", says he also thinks it's turing-complete, and says "it's such an obvious idea it's probably been invented more than twice" 00:45:08 it keeps getting reinvented by people making broken bf implementations >:) 00:45:39 oerjan: that's why I invented it in the first place :-) 00:45:43 brain_fuck.vb 00:51:51 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:52:05 -!- HackEgo has joined. 00:52:44 `relcome HackEgo 00:52:45 ​HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:53:08 huzzah 00:53:39 `run allquotes | tail -1 00:53:39 1165) 15:21 .. 15:41 I've got to stop using the IRC input line for short-term notes. fizzie: I tend to just send them to the channel that way if I need them in the future, I can find them in the log 00:53:49 hm it's there 00:54:20 but _not_ in the repository browser 00:54:45 what i'm wondering is how dylan got in his command 00:55:02 `ls 00:55:03 98076 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ Test.o \ this \ UNPA \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 00:55:16 `cat :-D 00:55:16 ​☺ 00:55:35 who's dylan 00:55:49 Bike: top of http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 00:56:18 Gregor`: the repository browser is out of synch with HackEgo, both ways 00:57:58 also you cannot click the link to :-D in the diff page 00:59:48 `file this 00:59:49 this: empty 00:59:53 `rm this 00:59:55 No output. 01:08:44 `ls -l :-D 01:08:44 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 01:08:48 `` ls -l :-D 01:08:49 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 30 18:39 :-D 01:08:54 `touch :-D 01:08:55 No output. 01:08:57 `` ls -l :-D 01:08:57 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 4 Jan 30 18:39 :-D 01:09:21 oh, I assume time doesn't flow in HackEgo 01:16:50 ais523: i don't think the repository in the browser is the same as the one HackEgo is currently using, which is why i'm wondering how dylan managed to get a command into it. 01:17:04 (a command which HackEgo hasn't respected) 01:17:22 `ls 01:17:23 98076 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ Test.o \ UNPA \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 01:18:57 dylan is within us all 01:18:59 perhaps Gregor` accidentally brought up the old version or something. 01:19:08 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:19:12 Bike: blowing in the wind? 01:25:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:34:21 There was evidence in this room of excessive consumption of almost every type of fungot known to civilized man since 1544 AD 01:34:22 kmc: actually in my view anyway), not ( 1 2) 01:36:36 how many types is taht (i'm not civilized) 01:38:24 a lot 01:41:21 so other than lambda:, python has "with ... as ..." and "for ... in ..." which could more or less be replaced with a reasonable lambda thing 01:42:21 i occasionally use the fact that the iteration variable of a for loop is set after the loop exits 01:42:26 but i feel gross when i do 01:47:55 I really hate it when I do, because I always declare the iteration variable in the for loop. 02:04:27 oerjan: The repository browser isn't just out of sync, it's referring to a whole other instance of HackEgo. 02:04:44 -!- Gregor` has changed nick to Gregor. 02:04:57 I don't have time to fix all the loose ends right now. 02:05:12 I was remiss to change HackEgo to a new server when I had a hugely busy week coming up ^^´ 02:13:00 Gregor: ok as i expected, i was just surprised that there's still someone using the old instance 02:13:50 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:14:46 hi Gregor 02:14:59 thanks for bringing back the hackster 02:15:26 -!- Sellyme has joined. 02:21:25 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:23:56 -!- Sellyme has joined. 02:27:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:52:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:59:33 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:11:38 -!- Lauralie has joined. 03:13:52 -!- Lauralie has changed nick to OverThere. 03:14:48 anyone alive out there? 03:16:25 * Sgeo needs a hit of P3P 03:16:52 There is nothing good in the world that matches the regex ^P.P$ 03:16:55 `relcome OverThere 03:16:56 ​OverThere: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 03:17:30 heh, wrong sort of esoteric for me then 03:17:43 such is life 03:17:46 aye 03:17:51 oh well. 03:17:55 off i go 03:18:14 -!- OverThere has left. 03:37:16 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:44:07 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 04:15:14 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:17:07 Sgeo: nothing wrong with PCP 04:33:05 Reading And Another Thing 04:33:14 I keep noticing when the writing sounds nothing like DNA 04:37:07 Still some funny parts 04:37:24 "Ah, you see. I /stole/ it. Therefore it's not mine. You're winning my argument for me." 04:58:36 -!- password2 has joined. 05:05:52 Sgeo: what about the Post Correspondence Problem 05:06:42 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:07:14 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:07:38 Hadn't heard of it until now 05:11:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:46:51 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:50:55 (that was what i meant as well) 05:51:18 also we just talked about pcp here like i dunno some weeks ago 05:51:42 for like 3 messages, maybe even more 05:52:18 you are so busted for not reading every line of the logs ever 05:57:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:16:18 Sgeo: you should prove it's undecidable 06:17:03 time of your life 06:17:42 "secure_compare leaks the password always. Note that it takes different time to create a result of ord() depending whether it's <=100 or > 100 due to caching of small numbers." YESSSSSSSSS PYYYYYYYYYTHONNNNNNN 06:17:50 cross posting this to every irc channel i'm in 06:18:04 (though I thought the cutoff was 256, not 100) 06:19:02 So, that's a compare function that's supposed to take equal time regardless of the actual password, but fails to? Nice. 06:19:11 -!- Bike has joined. 06:19:49 yes 06:20:00 it's hard to do that in a high level language 06:20:05 it's hard to do it and really be sure of it in C, even 06:20:42 the suggestion I saw today is that when comparing sensitive strings you should HMAC them both first https://www.isecpartners.com/blog/2011/february/double-hmac-verification.aspx 06:31:18 Language with space and time constraints in the types? 06:31:34 Going where Haskell dare not tread 06:31:34 that sort of thing would be good yeah 06:31:56 kmc: afaik it was -5 thru 100, but it may have been chnaged 06:31:57 changed* 06:32:29 `run python -c 'print (255+1 is 256, 256+1 is 257)' 06:32:30 ​(True, False) 06:32:50 oh, it's now -5 thru 256 06:33:00 good range 06:33:09 ISTR it went up to 256 even a few years back 06:33:18 so does that mean the timing attack is fixed? 06:33:18 hmm, it has been changed between 2.4 and 2.5 06:33:27 so yes, it does fix the timing attack 06:33:49 Sgeo: yeah a DSL for constant-time programming would be good 06:34:06 forbid control flow or memory access that depends on sensitive inputs 06:34:33 So tempting to think Racket when I think of DSL, especially now that I'm a Racket kick, but... somehow I think that wouldn't be appropriate here 06:34:33 unfortunately it's very hard to be sure that things are really constant time 06:34:48 "cperciva tells me he had a dim recollection of some MIPS CPUs which predicted the carry flag to be clear and would have to stall the pipeline in order to re-execute if not" 06:35:05 definitely MUL and DIV are often not constant time 06:35:14 Specialized CPU? 06:35:28 Seems like this might be a case of CPUs optimizing when we don't necessarily want them to 06:36:06 i want mul to optimized, thank you very much! you weirdos with your special cases 06:36:53 SLOW IMUL ecx 06:36:59 SLOW prefix for the win 06:38:03 is taht a real prefix, it's not on osdev 06:38:32 :) 06:38:46 Is there an ebook of osdev stuff? 06:39:25 i'm disappointed in you, lifthrasiir 06:40:33 Bike: ;) 06:40:39 what if i make a processor where all instructions take a pseudorandom number of cycles at least as great as the cost of the slowest instruction (doing some bullshit to mask power usage). imo secure 06:40:42 06:40:58 maybe you could do a cpuid every other instruction to serialize stuff 06:41:07 it clobbers most of the registers though 06:41:42 is there a complete list of Magic: The Gathering cards that i can grep through 06:41:46 even just the card names 06:42:05 or even just a reasonable list 06:42:44 there are other instructions for serializing 06:42:46 aren't there 06:43:04 I think so, I don't remember what they are though 06:43:14 there's http://magiccards.info/ 06:43:15 there are memory barriers, but they might not inhibit out of order execution 06:44:56 i don't actually care about the cards, just the card names 06:45:18 well you ca n look up lists within each set, at least. 06:45:44 aren't there a zillion sets 06:45:53 couple dozen, looks like. 06:46:26 http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&output=textspoiler,textspoiler&name=+![jsjdfhasgkdsfahgahdf] 06:46:46 As long as jsjdfhasgkdsfahgahdf never becomes a real card 06:47:08 thanks 06:47:18 i didn't see the option to search for "not" 06:49:25 oh by the way shachaf, you ever read pirx the pilot 06:49:49 nope 06:50:07 k 06:50:16 why 06:50:38 Oh, Stanisław Lem 06:50:45 i vaguely recall you reading the cyberiad or suchlike 06:50:54 nope, should i read it 06:50:58 i read only a bit of the cyberiad :'( 06:50:59 mos def 06:51:39 pirx the pilot reminded me of computer programming, in that everything goes wrong incomprehensibly 06:57:13 hey do you know about the simplex category 06:57:25 you should answer my questions 06:59:06 i don't know hsit-all about nothing 07:01:29 ok well do you know that each number in pascal's triangle tells you the number of paths you can take from the top to reach that number 07:01:39 probably 07:01:55 is ther ea generalization comeing on 07:02:05 i mean it's p. obvious from the usual definition but imo it's good 07:02:13 maybe, that part is your job hth 07:02:27 -!- Bike has left ("gonna read about killing chickens"). 07:02:44 :'( 07:26:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:00:51 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:23:45 i'm not sure this is any sort of generalization, but if you take the matrix M = (1 1 \\ 1 0), say, and start taking its powers, then you will start seeing fibonacci numbers. another way to see this is that you have a graph with two nodes and adjacency matrix M, and (M^n)_(a,b) gives you the number of paths of length n from node a to node b, and in this case you're basically counting binary words where 11 is forbidden. investigating the interplay betw 08:23:46 een the growth of the matrix entries and the actual sets of paths (in particular, bi-infinite ones) is one of the things symbolic dynamics studies. 08:25:43 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 08:31:32 hello, hackego 08:31:53 HackEgo is back. what you say to that, fungot? 08:33:20 fungot says "netsplit" 08:33:37 netsplit says "fungot" 08:57:03 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 08:58:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:04:54 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:19:36 I just the word "conundrum" in a set of exercises for students, because of alliteration. 09:22:01 fizzie: used that word unquoted or quoted? 09:22:42 ooops, fizzie accidentally the conundrum 09:27:08 Unquoted. Well, the sentence itself is quoted. It's in the sometimes-whimsical (except I haven't come up with anything whimsical so far) "title" (of sorts) of a question. 09:27:18 I called it the "Conditional contradiction conundrum". 09:29:22 fizzie: I see 09:42:05 -!- Jafet has joined. 09:44:32 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:35:29 wikiplia has a built-in integer type, add and subtract and eq operations, but no built-in less-than comparison, so you have to simulate comparision by subtracting, stringifying the number (there's a built-in op for that), taking the first character of the string, and comparing it to '-'? 10:35:40 s/\?/\./ 10:39:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:46:50 you are so busted for not reading every line of the logs ever <-- shocking 10:47:12 i vote for kicke banne 10:48:04 vote for new danish prime minister kicke banne 11:41:28 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:47:22 -!- Tritonio has joined. 11:53:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 11:59:16 -!- yorick has joined. 12:11:45 Ut-oh. My ~/writing/ (where I keep all "serious" stuff) on the previous department's system seems to be completely empty, as opposed to containing four years' worth of work. 12:12:26 It's also modification-timestamped 2013-12-13, and the automatic snapshots on the NFS thing only reach three weeks back. 12:17:42 fizzie: yer bot is not here hth 12:26:03 also, *ouch* 12:26:40 my theory that we are in the end times keeps amassing evidence. 12:28:08 Well, it took about five minutes for the admins to restore the files from "a previous home directory server" they had around, and anyway they've got quite a comprehensive set of weekly tape backups; it's just time- and labor-intensive to get at the latter. 12:28:21 Now let's see about that bot. 12:29:20 I need to randomize a freenode server that works, it seems. 12:30:04 fancy 12:30:14 -!- fungot has joined. 12:30:19 fungot: End times: cancelled? 12:30:20 fizzie: i'm a member of the esolang in him and it criticized 12:30:30 That sounds ominous. 12:30:36 postponed for a week, maybe. 12:37:46 oklopol: My thesis draft file is 112 pages, but I haven't actually written anything for it yet. (I just took all the publications I've been involved in -- 70 pages, apparently -- and dumped them in our template file, which adds 42 further pages of lipsum text and miscellaneous overhead.) 12:38:47 (Should start putting the thing together one of these days, given that my doctoral-student funding dried up when the year changed.) 12:39:08 (Silly people and their "must graduate in four years" pretensions.) 12:41:39 mine contains no liirum laarum, but half of it is still copypaste from articles 12:42:07 i only took like 1/3 of our publications 12:42:10 or less 12:42:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:42:45 my coauthor is taking another 1/3 and the rest will be donated to charity 12:43:12 oklopol: is liirum laarum a Finnish version of lorem ipsum? 12:43:20 sort of 12:43:28 also, you can donate publications to charity? 12:43:36 it's a funny term for "nonsense" 12:44:05 i'm sure there's an english one i can't think of, but the finnish one was reasonably close to lorem ipsum so i went for it. 12:44:56 i'm not sure whether you can donate them, i shall contact unicef 12:45:36 fizzie: you put lorem ipsum text in your dissertation? wow 12:45:42 b_jonas: It was in the template. 12:45:47 \usepackage{lipsum} and all. 12:45:48 will it remain there in the final versoin? 12:45:52 Probably not. 12:46:16 (actually my coauthor is probably taking less than 1/3, since we/he will surely have 100 pages more next year when he writes it) 12:46:30 I mean, I have to write a thesis too, and reusing a lorem ipsum generator would be an easy way to pad it 12:46:40 what sort of thesis 12:46:50 fizzie: you should keep a section of it to keep the reviewers on their toes hth 12:46:56 just a simple splice articles together thesis probably 12:47:30 me and my coauthor both included our common articles in the theses... 12:48:27 sure, that's normla 12:48:29 oklopol: I'm not sure if all the publications are going to be included, I just put them all in for now. Anyway, the convention here is that we'd both just claim some percentage of the article, and write something vague in the "Author's Contribution" section. 12:48:32 these are all co-written articles 12:49:02 oh wait you didn't say they were disjoint 1/3rds 12:50:33 they are disjoint thirds 12:50:41 o 12:51:45 it took me like a month to come up with a natural way to include more than 3 of our articles in a coherent thesis 12:51:55 well i'm not sure i succeeded, but anyway 12:52:16 no two are on the same topic, basically 12:52:21 oklopol: yeah, I know that feelign 12:52:58 except of course all of them are about CA and subshifts which is a pretty small topic :D but to me they feel like very different topic. 12:53:00 *topics 12:54:46 b_jonas: what's your topic? 12:54:55 like, roughly 12:55:54 graph coloring 12:56:33 oo 12:56:55 then you may give details! 12:57:11 basically we invent graph invariants that are crazy enough that nobody have tried to prove anything about them yet, then prove anything we can about them, and try to phrase it in a way that the statements sound interesting and nontrivial 12:58:29 no offense but that sounds awesome no matter how much you try to downplay it 12:58:31 can i see???? 12:58:45 one statement is about a graph invariant that is lessequal to the fractional chromatic number and 1/e times the fractional chromatic number 12:58:50 here => http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/sc/publ.html 12:59:33 what does CA stand for? 12:59:54 cellular automata 13:00:21 ok. (that was ambiguous) 13:00:23 sure 13:00:40 my goal in life is to make cellular automata a respected field of mathematics 13:01:07 And world peace while you're at it? 13:01:17 no i think wolfram did that in ankos 13:01:24 no way. world domination, that's more like it 13:01:41 world peace is on page 787 13:04:49 ah right, promise world peace in the abstract, then if you get by page 787 it turns out you can get world peace in some special case in a very simplified model provided the generalized riemann hypothesis, and it's not known to be constructible in polynomial time. 13:06:51 and it's world peace only within a huge constant factor only. 13:06:55 so what do you think of bondage and domination? 13:07:20 (any non-graph theoretical connotations are accidental) 13:10:13 huh? what is bondage in this context? I don't really know much about any area of maths really. 13:10:51 * b_jonas does a web search 13:11:54 "bondage number" ... "Restrained bondage number of a graph" ... 13:12:08 well bondage numbers and domination numbers are graph invariants, but perhaps only if you spend too much time reading arxiv 13:12:31 The authors must have the same giddy feeling as M. Spivak about "The Joy of TeX". 13:14:05 Liars. "This site uses cookies to improve performance." 13:14:43 Another great book title. "Topics on Domination" 13:15:09 on -> in. 13:15:10 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00222-003-0335-2 13:15:16 sex entropy 13:16:09 hmm maybe it's not called sex entropy there 13:16:11 just h_{sex} 13:16:18 but it's called sex entropy in his talks 13:16:48 (i don't know who came up with the term but anyway) 13:17:14 on crazy terms mathematicians use, see this anecdote => http://mathoverflow.net/questions/53122/mathematical-urban-legends/53738#53738 13:17:52 without looking, exploding points on a plane? 13:18:02 yes 13:18:07 no wait 13:18:08 blowing up. 13:18:09 blowing up 13:18:12 yes, that 13:18:20 exploding is what sml does 13:18:32 when it converts an array to a list 13:18:40 (The "blowing up" line was typed after I had a look.) 13:20:42 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]). 13:21:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:22:53 -!- boily has joined. 13:23:05 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:23:12 good sticky morning! 13:23:18 `olist 13:23:19 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily 13:26:31 Good think the HackEgo was resurrected before the next `olist 13:28:11 essential services were restored just in time! 13:34:18 -!- FreeFull has joined. 13:45:01 wait wait you forgot the number 13:45:29 (943) 13:48:06 oops >_>'... 13:57:18 maybe it should complain if there's a missing argument? 13:57:30 `complain 13:57:30 Complaint filed. Thank you. 13:57:53 that's how you complain at it, not how it complains at you 13:57:56 `cat bin/complain 13:57:57 echo "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. 13:58:03 ah, hmm 13:58:09 I think you just filed a null complaint 13:58:24 `` shuf -n1 complaints 13:58:24 No output. 13:58:43 hm. http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/6c8a8b8f754f/complaints 13:58:49 `` shuf -n1 complaints 13:58:50 No output. 13:59:04 clever. 13:59:11 `complaints 13:59:11 0 complaints 13:59:25 `` ls -la complaints 13:59:26 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 9 Sep 25 13:06 complaints -> /dev/null 14:00:14 very efficient. 14:00:37 "It's backup day today so I'm pissed off. Being the BOFH, however, does have it's advantages. I reassign null to be the tape device - it's so much more economical on my time as I don't have to keep getting up to change tapes every 5 minutes. And it speeds up backups too, so it can't be all bad can it? Of course not." 14:00:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:01:36 helooooooOOOdl 14:02:48 gnocchanoodlegoo?! 14:06:17 noodle goo? 14:06:40 gnocchi channel nooodl gobbledygook? 14:08:45 I started out with "cockadoodledoo". 14:08:53 Since apparently it's morning somewhere. 14:09:11 it's 15:08 here but i also just got up. the flu is something 14:09:43 14:09 here 14:09:52 15:09:44 14:09 here 14:10:21 Wed 5 Feb 14:10:21 GMT 2014 14:10:22 `? nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodles 14:10:22 Nooodles are the invention of the Chinese. They were brought to Europe by Marco Polo, a distant ancestor of Taneb. 14:10:31 `run date 14:10:31 Wed Feb 5 14:10:30 UTC 2014 14:10:45 Today is Sweetmorn, the 36th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3180 14:12:01 Is that a discordian date? 14:12:15 it is :D 14:12:59 hah. https://twitter.com/ddate 14:13:24 (seems to be late though) 14:20:35 "The rights of a Pope include but are not necessarily limited to: (...) 3. To baptise, marry, and bury (with the permission of the deceased in the latter two cases). " 14:28:22 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:33:43 -!- HackEgo has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 14:34:31 -!- HackEgo has joined. 14:34:38 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 14:34:56 FreeFull: lol 14:37:28 -!- Sellyme has joined. 14:43:44 ~metar CYUL 14:43:44 CYUL 051412Z 05016KT 2SM -SN BKN014 OVC028 M09/M12 A3015 RMK SC7SC1 SLP213 14:43:51 back to -SN! 14:48:33 ~metar ENVA 14:48:34 ENVA 051420Z 12008KT CAVOK 04/M05 Q1002 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 17010KT 14:50:38 ~metar EFHK 14:50:38 EFHK 051420Z 10005KT 9999 SCT010 BKN150 M04/M06 Q1012 NOSIG 14:50:52 Now they've gotten rid of the runways. 14:50:56 It is a strange. 14:51:03 Oh well, have to bus a catch. -> 14:52:00 they only show runway conditions if they are suboptimal. 14:52:08 fizzie: good catching! 14:54:14 i hope he'll release it afterwards. 14:55:10 -!- Namaskar has joined. 14:55:38 * boily gestures “I once catched a 10 ton bus that was that long” 14:57:18 someone give boily medical help for his arms 15:00:01 contrary to what my previous affirmation may imply, I am most definitely not slenderman. 15:02:14 “Dith can make any species 'uncannily stealthy' with very little investment. A sneaky troll is awesome!” 15:04:37 whoa they made a god for tras? 15:04:47 or even tren I guess 15:04:52 finally crawl is good again 15:11:43 elliott__: not sure I agree with that, dtsund seems to have given recent Crawl up altogether because he feels it's more difficult than it should be 15:11:49 due to all the better strategies being nerfed 15:12:07 oh! if dtsund has given up then it's probably even better than I thought 15:13:16 “more difficult that it should be”? it's a roguelike, for fungot's sake! 15:13:16 boily: it exists.) 15:13:19 fungot: it does. 15:13:19 boily: fnord do! exchange has to call another procedure with those values as memory etc... :) ..but true. things work out though, because our cell is no longer ' () 15:17:31 boily: strangely enough, difficulty for the sake of difficulty does not create a good game 15:17:56 see, for instance, the comments by the creator of IWBTG about how he went to a lot of effort to make sure it wasn't too hard 15:18:02 anyway, time to go home 15:18:02 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 15:18:57 @tell callforjudgement I agree, but fun difficulty with challenging mental challenges is fun. it's like playing go. 15:18:58 Consider it noted. 15:19:19 @tell ais523 check your callforjudgement messages plzkthx hth twh hand 15:19:20 Consider it noted. 15:20:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:24:05 It's important to be able to make progress - being stuck in the same spot for hours is a powerful fun-killer. Others include having to play the same boring sequence over and over again in order to get to a challenging part where one keeps failing. 15:24:09 Tough. 15:24:26 that doesn't happen with procedurally generated permadeath games 15:24:32 the latter, at least 15:24:39 not really the former either, unless it's a particularly grindy one 15:25:23 if you can't make progress in one part, it's nice to be able to attack some other part 15:25:29 int-e: that's why DCSS has chopped off and shortened many branches and levels. 15:25:53 ski: that's a big problem Angband has: one main line of repetetitive levels. 15:26:28 there was some game where apparently some people would go walk in a treadmill for extended periods of time, while they thought over what they had tried, and what they might try to do in other places 15:26:34 I'm having the same problem with ninja twins (level 26, no motivation to play further) 15:26:35 ski: crawl does fairly well with that due to branches 15:26:44 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:27:21 (though actually what puts me off most are the game logic glitches. In that level, one can partially push sliding blocks into other ones...) 15:27:27 -!- Tritonio has joined. 15:33:11 oerjan: I caught it, rode it, and then let it go. 15:38:19 -!- Johnnie has joined. 15:38:28 Thanks 'bot! 15:39:03 Hello! 15:39:17 `ello Johnnie 15:39:18 Jellohnnie 15:39:42 I think I found my new favourite chimæ̈ric hello ^^ 15:39:48 ^_^ Nice 15:41:02 After doing some tinkering on SPAM/1, I got to thinking about some of the very early issues of Byte magazine from Archive.org. I remember Chess being one of the first major programs published. 15:42:07 After that thought got stuck in my head for a while, I got to thinking "Why are we only doing Hello World programs? Couldn't we write something a bit bigger?" 15:42:47 At first I thought of Chess, and then I thought something more simpler....Tic-Tac-Toe. Hence the entry in the Ideas page. 15:44:52 hm, i was thinking about "Matt Chat 173: Quest for Glory with Lori and Corey Cole" by Matt Barton in 2012-11-18 at , at 19:43 and some minutes through 15:44:58 int-e,elliott__ : ^ 15:45:11 (the whole interview is pretty enjoyable, though) 15:45:42 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Scheduled maintenance). 15:45:45 I'm going to need to flag that down and view it after work. 15:46:23 youtube-dl-ing 15:46:55 * ski doesn't know "Crawl" 15:47:42 I think a simple game algorithm would tell apart ones who are serious in developing an eso (or joke language) from those who just wants to do a quick BF derivative. 15:48:24 ski: ssh joshua@crawl.akrasiac.org, password is joshua. 15:48:31 why ? 15:48:58 it's the most popular north american public crawl server? 15:49:00 BF' ... where cells store functions (initially 0); + adds e^x to the function; - subtracts e^x; . outputs the function value at 0, and ' takes the derivative of the current cell. ;-) 15:49:03 (Joshua....flashbacks of "War Games" ^__^ ) 15:49:23 (with respect to x) 15:49:50 Respect da x 15:50:20 It's a derivative derivative of BF. 15:51:17 That comes curiously close to John Conway's Game of Life, there 15:53:14 ("Crawl" is a Rogue-like game ?) 15:54:22 Gotta go. 15:54:32 -!- Johnnie has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:54:51 ski: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. it is (ostensibly) the Best Roguelike Out There. 15:56:08 i see 15:56:49 * ski hasn't really felt any urge to try out Rogue-likes 15:57:03 (perhaps Phantasie III is the closest) 15:57:21 ~duck phantasie 3 15:57:22 Phantasie is a fantasy role-playing video game series designed by Winston Douglas Wood and published by Strategic Simulations, Inc. in 1985. 15:57:53 games published before I was born are the best ones. 16:00:04 otoh, i've spent many hours playing Dungeon Master 16:00:32 (one of the first 3D realtime action RPGs) 16:05:40 i sunk 1000s of hours into DM on my Amiga 500 16:06:08 * ski grins 16:07:03 a lot easier to master than Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup:) 16:11:13 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:21:26 bon matily 16:22:02 bon matintopia! 16:22:51 ~metar ESSA 16:22:51 ESSA 051550Z 02003KT 6000 BR OVC014 01/M01 Q1007 R01L/19//95 R08/19//95 R01R/19//95 NOSIG 16:23:00 ~metar KATL 16:23:00 KATL 051552Z 31017G20KT 10SM BKN020 BKN025 11/07 A3002 RMK AO2 SLP169 T01060067 16:23:12 quintopia: 11? how dare you? 16:23:55 ~metar LOWI 16:23:55 LOWI 051550Z VRB08G21KT 9999 FEW070 BKN110 BKN150 09/M02 Q1003 NOSIG 16:24:38 mostly because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn winds, apparently. 16:38:51 what? i didn't do it? 16:39:50 i did come up with something so crazy i don't understand it last night 16:40:09 pray tell! 16:49:33 okay you have a queue of numbers 16:49:54 so far so good. 16:49:57 and you iteratively do the following 16:50:07 pop two numbers x then y 16:50:31 then pop x numbers and push them in order back onto the queue y times 16:50:58 and if you would pop an empty queue, you get zero 16:51:08 that's it 16:52:01 so abc22 -> bcbca, where the reading end of the queue is to the right? 16:52:13 some queues delete themselves (having lots of 1's usually) some queues reach a steady state (of all two's) 16:52:20 and many grow forever 16:52:31 yes int-e 16:52:38 and some loop, like 2222 -> 2222 16:52:38 6 5 4 3 2 1 → 6 5 4 3 → 0 6 5 0 6 5 0 6 5? 16:52:56 hm. 3 should be there 2 times. 16:53:14 6 5 4 3 2 1 -> 4 3 6 5, I think. 16:53:29 err. which is x, which is y? 16:53:37 boily: 654321 33654 0336033603360336 16:54:03 i usually put the read end on the right so i can append easier 16:54:08 by copy paste 16:55:37 so here's what i know: if you have a queue with no number greater than 2, and no more than 2 2's adjacent, it will delete itself. if you have a queue will all twos (at least four) it never changes, and if you have all >1 it grows without bound. 16:56:03 >1? 16:56:04 i have yet to find an oscillator with period >1 16:56:56 int-e: well, okay, it has to have some threes in the right position or it will steady state like all twos 16:57:14 but a healthy mix of twos and threes grows forever, for instance 16:57:35 if they are all >1 it will never get shorter 16:58:15 22 -> 0000 -> 00 -> e. sorry, boundary cases. 16:58:58 int-e: i said at least four twos 16:59:25 quintopia: in the last statement you said "healthy" which wasn't defined ;) 16:59:40 because i can't define it simply 17:00:03 obviously any 2-digit string will die. 17:00:06 i guess you have to have some threes in positions which are 0 or 1 mod 4 17:02:30 tricky. (32222)+ will stop growing. 17:03:10 (I'm now also popping from the left) 17:04:49 It looks like there are many ways to end up with repeated 2s eventually. The question of finding another kind of loop is interesting. 17:06:44 int-e: you have to have some 3's in both types of positions apparently... 17:07:04 anyway, the cases in between are the ones i'm interested in 17:07:06 or not. 07420742 -> 420742 -> 07420742 17:07:15 like what about queues with only 3's and 1's 17:07:48 well that was quick 17:07:50 nice job 17:08:47 what about oscillators of arbitrary period 17:08:49 ((0 ?)^k(2k)2)^{>=2}, of period k. 17:08:54 now how about a sequence that grows really really big before deleting itself over the course of thousands of iterations :P 17:09:34 1 10^10^10 1 17:09:39 did int-e just anticipate my question and answer it in two seconds 17:10:19 int-e: what does that say 17:11:01 quintopia: that's a starting sequence; after one step you have 10^10^10 1s. after 10^10^10/2 more steps, it'll be empty. 17:11:02 oh i get it 17:11:15 or not, it's 10^10^10+1? 17:11:26 nah, first guess was correct. 17:11:41 well that's lame. i was hoping it'd have some non-1s in it for most of the steps. 17:11:59 But I messed this up: ((0 ?)^k(2k+2)2)^{>=2}, of period k+1 17:12:12 what about a sequence that spends half the cycles growing and half the cycles shrinking, alternating between the two phases forever 17:12:29 wait 17:12:30 nvm 17:12:49 what i just said, but replace forever with "finally deleting itself after thousands of cycles" 17:13:52 I guess "look for a cycle with period > 1, without using 0" is a good problem. 17:13:58 what about 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 ... 17:14:34 i think that keeps pushing more 1s to the end before becoming just 1s and destroying itself? 17:14:56 121 -> 11; 2121 -> 21; etc. 17:16:58 but yes, one can start with 3 n 1 4 1, which will grow for n+1 steps and then shrink for 2n steps, or so. 17:18:08 (5 -> 3n -> 3n+1 -> ... -> 4n -> 4n-3 -> 4n-6 -> ... more like 4/3n steps of shrinking) 17:18:18 ... 17:18:58 No, the shrinking phase consists of consuming 111, appending 1; the difference is only 2. 17:26:44 now i want to start with the beginning of pi 17:34:26 http://sprunge.us/ddVC -- $ python q.py 0 7 4 2 0 7 4 2 17:35:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:35:55 -!- Namaskar has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:36:22 -!- Namaskar has joined. 17:38:14 python q.py 8 2 0 7 0 9 0 -1 8 2 17:39:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:41:08 -!- password2 has joined. 17:42:15 what 17:42:27 negative numbers? 17:42:36 it doesn't matter how often a string of length 0 is repeated ;) 17:42:55 4 2 0 n 4 2 and 4 2 6 n 4 2 seem to be the shortest oscillators 17:43:40 5 2 1 0 4 5 2 is also a cool one 17:43:42 i like that i can just describe something here and get an implementation without any effort 17:44:20 ooh it found a new one! 4 3 4 0 4 3 17:45:03 a predecessor (4 0 4 3)^3; all part of the pattern :) 17:45:14 predecessor *of 17:46:03 sorry, I'm wrong. 17:46:53 it chops off 6 elements at once, I never did that. 17:47:48 that's a nice one 17:51:09 426142 is an oscillator, but 426542 grows without bound 17:51:17 http://bpaste.net/raw/LwjTn0HIUewiNZAWZPwJ/ short oscillators 17:52:30 ?? 17:52:40 http://sprunge.us/TfAC now in Python 3 and stopping after reaching () 17:53:28 4 n 4n-8 0 4 n is another one that works for all n 17:53:45 like 4 6 16 0 4 6 17:53:52 426142 is still the only one with no zeros 17:57:46 6 2 10 1 8 1 6 2 is another (period 3). 6 2 8 1 6 2 8 1 is an accidental one with period 12. 17:58:27 nice 17:58:39 looks like we can get complicated behavior? 17:58:48 8 2 14 1 12 1 10 1 8 2 has period 4, and there's a whole familiy of those. 18:03:00 It's a bit obvious, but the 2{4,} family of oscillators could all be generated as 1 N 2 18:03:19 (pattern: 2n 2 (4n-2) 1 (4n-4) 1 ... (2n+4) 1 2n 2, for period n) 18:03:30 fungot: beep boop 18:03:30 kmc: heh, my impression of uni was that the output tape, in any such language from the libraries. you just have a function that will find if two lambda expressions i gave? you didn't use 18:03:53 `relcome password2 18:03:54 ​password2: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:04:10 I think they were `relcome'd yesterday 18:04:24 THEN WE RELCOME THEM AGAIN 18:04:26 or was that only an attempt that failed due to unavailability of the HackEgo? 18:04:30 oh okay 18:04:37 the more the merrier, they say 18:08:10 int-e: what is ... 18:08:41 enough random numbers to make the whole thing have 2n+2 elements? 18:09:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:17:26 back from lunch, and the `relcomes Are! 18:18:47 ah , finally i get the full relcome 18:19:13 and . HOLy shizz , colors in an irc channel 18:20:07 `run echo yes | rainbow 18:20:08 ​yes 18:20:09 password2: EMBRACE THE COLOURS! 18:21:43 may i post NSFW links here? 18:22:17 yes but... why would you 18:22:30 because its on topic and funny 18:22:41 well then post it 18:22:49 NSFW http://anticache.img5.joyreactor.com/pics/post/comics-oglaf-sex-rainbow-479025.jpeg 18:23:31 that is what went through my head when i read 'EMBRACE the COLOURS' 18:24:23 I thought for a second that you had a NSFW link about esolangs 18:24:29 That'd be.. impressive 18:24:36 oh no , i meant the colours 18:25:00 the colours are esoteric? 18:25:10 Of course 18:25:49 * boily browses Amazon for a certain Lovecraft story... 18:25:59 i am trying to imagine how a nsfw esoteric lang would work 18:26:31 the pointer will be named D 18:29:43 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:32:35 there is a very interesting overlap between this chännel's quotes, and crawl's learndb. I already knew elliott__'s in both, but then monqy too. 18:36:14 mmm , this channel has made it very tempting to try my hand at writing a eso lang 18:38:02 i geuss i should try by writing an interpreter for one first 18:39:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:40:22 password2: that's usually how it goes. you write interps for various esolangs, get your brains mangled by underload, coast along, then create your own... 18:41:00 ah 18:41:05 but i'm so lazy 18:41:07 :p 18:41:44 boily: project gutenberg didn't help? 18:42:49 int-e: oh. hm. eh. eeeeeegbhghghghgh. 18:42:51 -!- augur has joined. 18:43:34 “eeeeeegbhghghghgh”: a native Canadiamerican word meaning “I completely forgot about Project Gutenberg.” 18:44:41 oh and there's this one ... http://cthulhuchick.com/free-complete-lovecraft-ebook-nook-kindle/ 18:49:21 -!- Tritonio has joined. 18:50:44 fungot: nobody knows the wreck of the soul the way you do 18:50:44 kmc: nooooo... *cries*) an call that code from chicken? 18:50:55 fungot: ( 18:50:55 int-e: it returns their both results. boggle.) 18:51:01 fungot: ( 18:51:01 int-e: ummm...i dont know. but i was suggesting that initself_ paste his stuff particularly amusing. and you... 18:51:41 fungot: whoi is initself? 18:51:41 boily: " i've never used rails apart from the ugly ruby frameworks that i'm considering trying it out will be interesting 18:51:54 fungot: oh, a rubyist. 18:51:54 boily: what would ' aa fnord aaaaa' become? :d did i leave? 18:52:07 fungot: an exponentially growing sequence. next! 18:52:07 boily: for say ' ( require-srfi 1)' would be better than buying her a zero 18:52:21 fungot: hey, no human traffic! you can't buy Fiora. 18:52:21 boily: so that ( print ( 5 7 9) ' odd) ( else ' even)) 18:52:35 boily: no no, I think the zero was a gift 18:52:40 btw, where is she? 18:53:00 FireFly: aaaah. the Gift of the Null Knowledge. 18:53:12 <3 oglaf 18:53:31 fungot: flowers and chocolate are common when it comes to humans, but I dunno about bots... 18:53:31 FireFly: heh remember the fnord defun but mine would too but apparently it just isn't going to be wrong 18:53:38 but then again, zeroes are ring-formed, so there's always that 18:54:01 fungot: it isn't going to be wrong?! great! 18:54:01 FireFly: doesn't fnord five, for example. it could be 18:54:32 I think a basket of chocolate-covered fnords would be a nice gift to fungot. 18:54:32 boily: gui toolkits. which confused me. by " interesting" to most people. 18:54:52 No, I don't think a lot of people find GUI toolkits interesting.. 18:55:16 * boily screams “JAVA SWING IS GOOD!” 19:08:08 fungot: JAVA SWING IS GOOD? 19:08:09 olsner: alfred jarry! say something about th' death of disco!! i'm in a chroot 19:08:38 if you grepped for fungot, I wonder if fungot or people asking fungot to speak would make less sense 19:08:39 olsner: does " algorithm" for applying unrestricted grammars, whereas i associate logic programming with a set of defined operations on cells? sounds a bit like fnord 19:09:12 olsner: people make less sense. fungot is the Clearest of Us All. 19:09:12 boily: s/ i/it/ it 19:09:22 olsner: see? ↑ 19:15:06 shining with the clarity of a smokescreen illuminated by fire 19:18:30 fungot: are you trying to get an "i'm in a chroot" meme going? 19:18:31 FireFly: every time i've attempted. ( f a ( f b c) b c) b c) 19:19:05 of course there had to be unbalanced parentheses. 19:19:55 * boily balances fungot with a curved mapole 19:19:56 boily: uh... this can't be good. 19:20:02 fungot: no, it isn't. 19:20:03 boily: either way it doesn't use any overly schemely stuff', ' names x', you know 19:21:43 Is a Java swing bit like a sex swing? 19:22:11 they do have frames 19:23:50 `run quote fungot | shuf -n 1 19:23:51 FireFly: i'm just reading the program, and it was long ago... 19:23:51 249) Phantom_Hoover: if the list is in random order, like poor ehird here 19:24:13 That's a good one. 19:24:35 fungot: yes. that quote was indeed long ago. 19:24:35 FireFly: lol, in a country with compartively strong gun control, and partitioning, and almost a week until i buy more!" 19:24:56 uh oh 19:25:26 fizzie: uhm. your bot. he is become Death. 19:26:00 That's kind of worrying. I guess e's buying guns over the Internet, then. 19:26:53 Also, regarding your earlier question, I think Fiora gave up on the channel when there was that discussion on offensive terminology the other day. 19:27:50 oh. :( 19:29:35 -!- FreeFull has quit. 19:40:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:41:00 -!- Johnnie has joined. 19:41:57 I'm on my first defense :) 19:43:31 -!- FreeFull has quit (Client Quit). 19:46:03 -!- Johnnie has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:52:26 -!- conehead has joined. 19:54:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:55:04 -!- augur has joined. 19:55:23 @tell Johnnie defending what? 19:55:24 Consider it noted. 19:59:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:59:59 tromp: I read about your cuckoo proof of work function. very cool! 20:00:42 thanks 20:02:25 still not seeing any cuckoins though:-( 20:03:03 do you plan to develop your own cryptocurrency? 20:03:42 nope 20:04:13 but you could get rich quick 20:05:08 i alrd am:) 20:05:23 cool 20:05:32 so where can I buy esocoins? 20:06:13 first, port bitcoin source to brainfuck 20:06:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:07:15 @ask boily You people with your "never use ask and tell consistently" policies! 20:07:15 Consider it noted. 20:07:51 or would esocoin replace proof of work be proof of new esolanf design? 20:07:58 be->by 20:08:30 -!- Johnny_ has joined. 20:09:20 Is Nathanator on these IRC chats? 20:09:34 fizzie: what's the difference between ask and tell? and don't tell me ask is related to MonadReader, and tell MonadState. 20:09:40 s/State/Writer/ 20:11:09 what's your excuse for not starting a crypto-currency, kmc? 20:11:43 Johnny_: we have Taneb. 20:13:12 Nathanator and Taneb are two separate people, I take it. 20:15:04 `quote Newcastle 20:15:04 963) it's raining in newcastle, therefore the elliotts are distinct. boily's Newcastle Theorem. 20:15:45 Johnny_: I suppose there's a functor going from elliott__ over to Taneb for that principle. 20:15:45 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:16:32 I'm wondering if either SPAM/1 is in danger of being deleted, or if I need to put more effort into it (IE: transfer protocol vs. computer language) 20:16:44 RE, not IE 20:18:33 no admin is non-lazy enough to delete things with non-spam content 20:19:51 Okay. That gives me room to work on the programming language part of it. I think I might have put in too much emphasis on the transfer part. 20:21:03 imho, it's well spent emphasis. the first esolang with amateur radio codes! 20:21:06 tromp: basic laziness 20:21:39 too lazy to get rich:) 20:21:53 i'm already fairly rich 20:21:53 These "Who created X?" captchas are clever 20:22:07 anybody here who's poor and not lazy? 20:22:15 Thanks for the vote of confidence, boily. I want to challenge myself to make a complete game. Either Tic-Tac-Toe (easiest) or chess (ambitious) 20:22:18 we have a lot of students don't we... 20:22:19 If I weren't lazy I wouldn't be poor 20:22:31 tromp: will you make such people rich? 20:22:36 i don't think the expected value of making a new altcoin is that high 20:22:44 and it's the kind of thing i will fuck up with my laziness 20:23:02 wait i probably should've read some context 20:23:10 they can start the first coin to use cuckoo cycle proof-of-work 20:23:16 i thought tromp just joined and said that, but it was zzo who joined. 20:24:10 Are the "who invented X?" CAPTCA questions on the wiki generated by parsing the articles or hardcoded? 20:27:05 When I was chatting up with someone else about my project, they suggested for me to add on the Carrier Pigeon standard as another physical layer of the language. 20:28:24 I don't think I'm that ambitious...but that would make for an interesting language...based entirely on carrier pigeons and no computers. (Sound existential and possibly stupid doesn't it? :-) 20:28:48 long live RFC 2549! 20:28:57 That's the one! 20:28:57 s/25/11/ 20:29:06 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers ← has them all. 20:29:29 Bingo! 20:30:51 1459 is the only RFC number I can remember.. 20:33:43 2822 has been somewhat important for a few projects. 20:43:37 You guys are way ahead of me. All I have under my belt is inspiration from the first 6 issues of Byte and the first 2 issues of 73 magazine. 20:48:37 I'm not sure what "ahead" would mean here 20:49:22 "ahead" here would mean I have no idea what RFC 1459 or (until last night) RFC 2549 are. 20:50:51 You're making good use of RFC 1459 at least 20:52:08 <-- Googled up RFC 1459 20:54:51 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:55:46 Huh...and here I thought the IEEE was all there was. I had no idea the Internet Engineering Task Force existed. 20:56:29 Oh well, there's probably a whole array of stuff I don't have a clue about, either! 20:58:35 -!- augur has joined. 20:58:47 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:10 -!- augur has joined. 21:00:19 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:00:27 revolving door? 21:01:50 -!- augur has joined. 21:02:03 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:02:31 -!- Johnny_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:03:30 -!- augur has joined. 21:04:37 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:46 -!- augur has joined. 21:08:09 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:09:31 -!- augur has joined. 21:11:12 -!- trout has changed nick to constant. 21:12:02 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:12:37 -!- conehead has joined. 21:14:24 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:32:10 What do you think is better way to store jump tables for use with RTS trick in 6502 programming? Some people store the low byte and high byte of the address together in one table, but I think it is better to store the low and high byte in two separate tables. What do you think is OK? 21:37:48 what are the tradeoffs of each approach? 21:39:33 The first way requires a more complicated code to read the table, especially if there are more than 128 entries. The second way is difficult to enter in some assemblers which lack sufficient macro/preprocessor/postprocessor facilities. 21:47:45 It seems other people think the first way is better despite this but to me clearly it is second way which is better. 21:48:00 It is a faster and smaller code. 21:50:20 yeah if you can push more of the work to the assembler then that seems better 21:50:32 since these days the assembler runs on a machine like 9,000,000,000x faster than the target 6502 21:50:39 Yes 21:50:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:51:14 I suppose they use assemblers without macros or something like that, though; or assemblers with macros that aren't very powerful. 21:51:19 I am enjoying playing Dungeons and Dragons 21:51:19 -!- augur has joined. 21:51:31 Taneb: I was playing Dungeons and Dragons yesterday. 21:51:40 I am typing it now, and will reveal when ready. 21:52:07 Ours isn't recorded and it isn't far enough into the story to tell you what's really going on 21:52:27 O, OK, then 21:52:34 There is a crow sorceress who definitely isn't the Raven Queen, not even a raven queen 21:52:52 Who is after a magical tattoo that ended up on my chest 21:53:38 Now you have to cast a spell to remove it 21:54:02 The party's mage is only level 1 21:54:35 Well, we levelled up at the end of the session 21:54:37 `danddreclist 49 21:54:38 danddreclist 49: shachaf nooodl boily \ http://zzo38computer.org/dnd/recording/level20.tex 21:54:56 Then use mundane means to remove it to not waste the magic 21:55:05 (Or in case someone might counter it) 21:55:08 I don't think we have access to any 21:55:17 And it doesn't seem particularly nefarious 21:55:24 I mean, I've had it for a session and a half 21:55:44 Now see how my game is played. 21:56:03 I often find it useful to act last even if I have initiative, perhaps almost half of the time. 21:56:22 My character is a pacifist, which is interesting and fun in its own way 21:56:30 That is OK 21:56:43 But all four other members of the party are quite combat heavy 21:57:11 My character is pretty weak at combat too, and doesn't do much combat 21:57:18 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ETERNAL MAGICAL UNREMOVED CHICKEN). 21:57:20 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:57:28 I have a "kill" count, which is currently 1 21:57:33 Mostly doing other stuff, both magical and mundane. 21:57:57 My character mostly heals 21:58:16 But isn't technically pacifist except he won't ever deliberately harm any aberration type creatures. 21:58:42 I also am the one to heal in my party, but isn't most of what I do, and I do have one damaging spell but mainly use it just as one way to light things on fire. 21:59:04 In case we need something lit on fire; if it is nonliving then they can't dodge either. 21:59:48 They also can't save. 22:02:43 The book "Art of Defense in Chess" inspired some of the tactics I use, too. Do you like to use tactics similar to chess and chess variant too? 22:03:00 Woo, defense! 22:05:00 which tactics are those zzo38? 22:05:18 and what sorts of things do you light on fire? 22:05:59 kmc: I don't commonly light things on fire, and even when I do, is more commonly using mundane means to do so, but sometimes things such as wooden doors, explosives, etc 22:06:30 is that a good way to get through a door which is locked? 22:06:32 The tactics I mean are all sorts of defensive tactics, but also tactics which combine attack with defense. 22:06:55 kmc: It depends on the circumstances. Everything is depend on the circumstances. Maybe there is no need to get through such a door anyways. 22:08:26 I once use a fire to light a secret hideout on fire; I was magically slowed, and would probably have failed if I was fast since the people in the way would not have dodged. 22:09:15 So the slowness is actually to my advantage; spell the opponent cast on me, or try to do, are to my advantage, whether or not I know what the spell is, in fact. 22:10:20 For more details it is necessary to read the file I linked. 22:28:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:29:19 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:29:28 -!- quintopia has joined. 22:30:55 BF' ... where cells store functions (initially 0); + adds e^x to the function; - subtracts e^x; . outputs the function value at 0, and ' takes the derivative of the current cell. ;-) 22:31:00 i see what you did there 22:35:51 i usually put the read end on the right so i can append easier <-- heretic! 22:36:49 that makes it a _lot_ harder on the eyes to trace the running 22:37:00 or the brain 22:38:31 oerjan: did you see the olist 22:38:37 yes 22:39:01 live, even 22:39:03 -!- kmc has set topic: Fake diamonds that are glued to eyes of plastic crows | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 22:39:07 whoa 22:39:45 fungot: what do you think of montreal 22:39:45 shachaf: i got to work on the mapper. it's 22:40:12 also why does the topic have lyrics in it 22:41:29 doesn't it usually, when I've set it? 22:41:37 shachaf: they're not even from montreal :< 22:42:09 shachaf: what do you think of of montreal 22:42:53 paris 22:42:54 in the 22:42:56 the spring 22:43:04 kmc: i don't know anything about it 22:43:16 oslo in the summertime? 22:43:27 -!- Bike has joined. 22:43:34 hike 22:44:26 helloke 22:44:49 confusing 22:51:46 how are you 22:52:06 you missed zzo38 talking about lighting things on fire 22:52:37 i'm tire 22:52:39 do you know about monotonic functions between finite ordinals 22:52:48 oh, wait. non-empty finite ordinals...........that changes everything 22:52:56 maybe this is why i kept having those off-by-one errors 22:58:43 Bike: are you 2 tired 23:00:33 no 23:01:18 no matter where we are, we're always touching by underground wires 23:02:44 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:05:09 `seen nathanator 23:05:10 ls: cannot access /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ not lately; try `seen nathanator ever 23:05:13 ack 23:05:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 23:10:51 HackEgo: You're being a bit optimistic with that `seen ... ever bit. It's not going to work any better. 23:11:17 ever the optimist 23:12:07 "it is ILLOGICAL to fill a room with foam" http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/140205.html 23:21:44 Are the "who invented X?" CAPTCA questions on the wiki generated by parsing the articles or hardcoded? <-- hardcoded 23:22:00 Booring 23:27:12 who invented this sentence? 23:28:13 I did 23:28:51 `? tanebventions 23:28:51 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, and weetoflakes. 23:29:32 `run sed -i 's/and .*/weetoflakes, and this sentence./' wisdom/tanebvention 23:29:33 No output. 23:29:36 `? tanebventions 23:29:37 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, and this sentence. 23:30:57 `? this sentence 23:30:58 this sentence? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:31:33 `run echo >wisdom/this\ sentence 'This sentence was invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it.' 23:31:35 No output. 23:31:57 `? this sentence 23:31:57 This sentence was invented by Taneb. Taneb invented it. 23:32:45 `? atriq 23:32:45 atriq or two 23:32:56 `? taneb 23:32:57 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards, and five genders. (See also: d-modules) 23:34:11 `run sed -i 's/d-modules/tanebventions/' wisdom/taneb 23:34:13 No output. 23:35:21 good idea 23:36:34 did Taneb invent Tanebventions 23:36:39 But how many *backup* genders does Taneb have? 23:36:44 I think boily did, shachaf 23:38:06 is invention transitive 23:38:31 no. 23:42:08 `? cellular automata 23:42:09 cellular automata? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:42:12 `? stephen wolfram 23:42:13 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:45:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:45:45 `? esolang 23:45:46 esolang? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:46:26 `? automatic squirrel feeder 23:46:26 Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. 23:46:56 `? Go 23:46:57 Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia. 23:52:25 -!- augur has joined. 23:52:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:57:15 -!- luserdroog has joined. 23:58:33 Hello, all. I'm working on designing a new esolang, and I'm running into some trouble. 23:58:49 Some pieces are described here: ... 23:59:04 http://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/4618/what-piece-am-i-missing-to-turn-this-idea-into-a-programming-language/4912#4912 2014-02-06: 00:00:23 I've since come up with a syntax and execution model. It operates byte-wise, as a TAG-system, applying function trees upon the program input stream. 00:01:01 rough draft interpreter (doesn't implement function trees): http://codepad.org/wqOOdShZ 00:01:30 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 00:02:05 -!- glogbackup has joined. 00:02:27 But trying to implement anything is exceedingly painful. I can't seem to make an adder since everything operates bitwise. 00:02:56 There's no nice way to propagate data from one bit to another. 00:04:27 Maybe it needs an association mechanism so you can store functions in variables and not have to spell everything out literally. ... Then I could make a standard library with adders and stuff.... 00:05:55 string-rewriting seems much more tedious than stack-based systems. I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to alleviate that with fancy syntax. 00:06:47 So that's the mess that brought me here! Not sure if I really have a question in there ... :) 00:08:14 Currently, to make a loop, you have to make a quine. :) 00:08:31 well that much isn't so unusual in esolangs 00:09:03 i'm too tired to understand yours right now 00:09:12 no prob. me too. :) 00:09:38 have you seen /// by the way 00:09:48 Yes. 00:10:01 (string rewriting + making quines are the bread and butter of it) 00:10:25 I see. I didn't work with it enough to realize that. 00:11:44 Of itself, that doesn't seem too terrible. ... But I'm not even sure how to do it with my language as currently defined. 00:12:21 I suppose I should let the unconscious work on it for a while. 00:14:37 good idea 00:15:57 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:21:46 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:22:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:25:26 Two blocks of code, A and B, where B has a comment implying it needs to be below A. I decide B needs to be above A. The meaning of one of B's lines changes, and the comment needs to change... but the line in question still means what I need it to mean, even though it's something different from what it originally meant 00:26:15 you pick the most bizarre points in a problem to resort to irc Sgeo 00:26:36 I wasn't asking for IRC's assistence 00:26:48 I was noting something funny that happened 00:27:00 that is pretty cool 00:27:29 I think I don't know if I should have made the change though, before the change was what got QAed, although I felt it was less correct 00:27:30 :/ 01:08:55 does anyone else sometimes use 'mv /path/to/file/name_{old,new}' 01:09:08 isn't that the standard thing 01:09:28 that's good yes 01:09:32 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 01:09:32 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 01:09:32 -!- ggherdov_ has quit (Changing host). 01:09:32 -!- ggherdov_ has joined. 01:09:34 KMC Seal of Approval 01:09:42 -!- ggherdov_ has changed nick to ggherdov. 01:10:33 shachaf: i've started doing rm -fr instead of rm -rf 01:10:47 what's with that 01:10:53 How french 01:11:11 I use {,~} and {~,} with mv rather often 01:11:21 or cp 01:11:43 you mean République française? 01:12:47 Of course. 01:12:48 coppro: i keep using that on HackEgo, anyway. 01:13:10 (usually when someone's misnamed a wisdom entry) 01:13:13 {^__^} 01:13:15 Anyone know a website on group theory that's like, "Here's an interesting starting point, see where you can go!" 01:16:57 Taneb: now i'm reminded of oskar's cube 01:17:22 i played it on the web many years ago 01:18:01 Taneb, find out how the orbit-stabiliser theorem works or something, that got me hooked 01:21:55 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:22:08 -!- augur has joined. 01:24:36 bah i found a java applet (perhaps the same as years ago) and IE's security settings refuse to run it. 01:25:09 or perhaps it's actually malware, who knows. 01:26:34 :src Lens 01:26:54 type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t 01:27:04 lambdabot: you have competition 01:27:32 Blah, I don't think Racket has convenient functors 01:28:47 I can't just use the function functor, can I? For some reason I was thinking of a lens as a modifier 01:29:13 I have put 0 thought as to what having f be (-> r) would mean in this case 01:30:59 You could use data-lens style lenses? 01:34:26 -!- Namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:36:28 (-> r) is a contravariant functor isn't it? unless you meant ((->) r) 01:36:31 "best syntax ever" 01:41:32 -!- Namaskar has joined. 02:16:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:19:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:25:12 I should totally attempt to write a maccall for Racket 02:30:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:34:49 what's that 02:42:32 funcall for macros... evaluates the first expression in the transformer environment then applies the result to the rest of the body of the maccall 02:42:47 No idea if that's actually a good idea 02:43:49 http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/syntax-util.html?q=syntax-ev&q=eval#%28def._%28%28lib._racket%2Fsyntax..rkt%29._syntax-local-eval%29%29 02:43:53 syntax-local-eval 03:02:00 Hmm. I think the Racket core language is well specified in terms of its syntax, but not what primitive functions exist :( 03:07:25 -!- augur has joined. 03:07:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:08:00 -!- augur has joined. 03:08:57 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:08:57 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:13:37 http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/15570254295359/15570254295359.ogg 03:13:50 Is this some well-known classical music that I just never thought of in those terms? 03:13:57 Or some other well-known piece? 03:16:32 from gregor? i wouldn't think so... 03:17:23 The .ogg was generated by his WebMIDI service 03:27:18 Sgeo: what's funcall 03:28:01 kmc: Common Lisp function that lets you call value that represents a function 03:28:34 Assume compose is adequately defined. ((compose f g) 1) won't work, but (funcall (compose f g) 1) does 03:28:40 The first item in the list has to be a function name 03:28:49 (I think literal lambdas count as function names) 03:31:29 Sgeo: parts of that music reminds me of Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition 03:34:34 Sgeo: there's a special case to allow ((lambda ...) ...), yeah. 03:34:35 I hear it 03:34:38 Sgeo: thanks for reminding me how bad midi instruments on webmidi sound 03:34:50 quintopia: blame sonivox 03:34:51 Sgeo: oh this is a Lisp-2 thing? 03:34:53 kmc: yes 03:35:04 #justlisp2things 03:35:18 though it's sometimes nice to do (map #'funcall ...) and such. 03:35:29 what's the advantage of lisp-2 again 03:35:37 Sgeo: was it made in canada? its not worth laying blame unless i can blame canada 03:35:38 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:35:54 kmc: better for small talk than the weather 03:35:57 Bike: In Haskell, you do have ($) 03:36:00 Which is id 03:36:19 yes? 03:36:34 i didn't mean that was special to cl o'course 03:36:48 So I guess funcall isn't totally a Lisp-2 thing, but it's not as needed in a *-1 03:37:08 Or, well, not needed for all the use-cases CL needs it for, anyway 03:37:22 i can think of some reasons to want it in kernel, but yeah 03:37:28 not a terribly interesting function 03:37:53 kmc: Well, one is no overlap with non-hygienic macros between functions, which aren't often letted, and other lexical variables 03:38:05 Not sure if that's the one most CLers would point to 03:43:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:00:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 04:24:46 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:26:20 "One-person protests are legal in Russia, and the two activists holding signs were spaced far enough apart that neither was arrested." 04:26:30 -!- Sellyme has joined. 04:26:53 admirable planning! 04:39:34 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:44:36 -!- password2 has joined. 04:51:57 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 04:55:46 kmc: -fr is the scow of rm options 04:56:38 kmc: i bought some KMC brand card sleeves 05:01:12 scow? 05:01:39 -!- augur has joined. 05:02:57 as in the worst specimen of something 05:03:36 ah 05:03:38 why is it the worst 05:03:49 why is it worse than -rf or -r -f or --recursive --force 05:04:01 Recursive Force is my new superhero team name 05:04:29 i don't know 05:04:38 why is "xzvf" the right order for tar options? 05:04:39 it just is 05:04:54 everyone knows that 05:05:01 tar xyzzy 05:05:21 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dsfjdssdfsd -- The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of randomness in IETF protocols 05:05:37 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:06:11 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:11:10 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:23:05 shachaf: as in garbage scow! 05:23:22 oklopol: that's right 05:24:13 you taught me that word 05:24:59 i promise to use it someday 05:28:22 -!- luserdroog has joined. 05:29:30 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:32:23 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:35:55 -!- newsham has joined. 05:36:40 someone should write a fun esolang on top of https://microcorruption.com/login 05:48:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:16:57 -!- Namaskar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:17:19 -!- Namaskar has joined. 06:40:20 hi newsham 06:41:00 -!- tertu has joined. 06:50:15 howdy 06:57:20 -!- newsham has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:58:14 bye 06:59:44 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 07:03:22 -!- quintopia has joined. 07:04:11 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:04:19 -!- FreeFull has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:04:36 -!- FreeFull has joined. 07:05:30 -!- newsham has joined. 07:13:18 -!- TodPunk has joined. 07:16:14 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:24:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 08:24:23 hmm, wonder if i said a lot of random stuff here, accidentally put my mouse in the top left corner again and all the programs formed a grid 08:24:27 this time i can't get back 08:24:42 so now i can use all the programs at once, but i can't exactly see what i'm doing 08:24:46 int-e: i just manually rediscovered the 62816281 oscillator :P 08:24:57 so maybe areboot 08:25:01 i miss windows 08:25:16 oklopol: your example for Clue looks a lot like Wouter's example from the screenshot of Aardappel 08:25:36 i think we should have a battle of the programming-by-example languages 08:25:49 guess i have to take the battery out because the power button just opens a "shut this system now" window and the mouse doesn't do much 08:25:52 wish i could read your replies 08:26:16 can you write in like huge walls of letter 08:26:20 *s 08:28:38 shachaf: I would put z first, or skip it entirely since (gnu) tar autodetects compression 08:28:38 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:29:00 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:29:07 that was a hoot 08:29:16 I also always do rm -fr, which apparently is much less common than rm -rf 08:30:11 " oklopol: your example for Clue looks a lot like Wouter's example from the screenshot of Aardappel" it does? 08:30:33 i recall reading some of aardappel's documentation, but i thought it was a much weaker kind of programming by example 08:30:45 like, i never even realized they have something in common 08:30:53 i wonder if i just plagiarized the whole thing 08:31:01 which example are you referring to? 08:31:15 kmc: did you know http://hackage.haskell.org/package/regex-compat-0.95.1/docs/src/Text-Regex.html#subRegex uses a regex to search for backreferences in the replacement string 08:31:26 wow 08:31:43 also the whole haskell regular expression thing is ridiculous 08:31:46 all the packages 08:31:53 and the apis 08:32:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:32:12 iirc one of the examples in the snobol manual was a snobol grammar, i appreciated that 08:32:27 shachaf: you should solve it by making a new api in a new package 08:33:14 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: lone sleepy shite). 08:33:36 (=~) :: (RegexMaker Regex CompOption ExecOption source, RegexContext Regex source1 target) => source1 -> source -> target 08:34:03 yeah I remember complaining about that a lot 08:34:13 shachaf: https://twitter.com/MuseumOfTypes 08:35:46 quintopia: the big difference is that in aardappel, you actually describe exactly what the program flow is; it's just written in terms of concrete examples. the point of clue is that there is no direct way to control program flow. 08:36:08 aardappel actually makes a lot of sense; not that i have any idea whether it's any nicer to program in than clue. 08:37:17 (of course, in practice, you program in clue by splitting your function into a million subfunctions, but in theory that's only because my compiler is kind of crappy) 08:40:04 oh cool, kate has sessions 08:40:28 maybe next time my computer throws a fit i won't have to spend half a day opening files 08:42:44 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:43:08 -!- Tritonio has quit (Client Quit). 08:43:36 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:58:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 08:59:53 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:08:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Changing host). 09:08:52 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:12:43 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:16:12 ^tel nooodl 434043 is actually infinitely extendable. 4340434043 or 43404340434043 etc. all are period 2. 09:16:20 ^tell nooodl 434043 is actually infinitely extendable. 4340434043 or 43404340434043 etc. all are period 2. 09:16:20 I think you mean @tell instead? 09:16:32 @tell nooodl 434043 is actually infinitely extendable. 4340434043 or 43404340434043 etc. all are period 2. 09:16:32 Consider it noted. 09:16:39 i liked it when you did it fungot 09:16:40 quintopia: but you'd expect a comic, but fnord seals help. thanks to the wonderful world of metric units... they're as specific as possible 09:17:44 fungot: What makes a unit more specific? 09:17:45 fizzie: i use both hands 09:19:10 I see. 09:23:19 kmc: did you see the series of posts starting at http://conway.rutgers.edu/~ccshan/wiki/blog/posts/WordNumbers1/ 09:24:14 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:10:53 @tell Bike "After several years of successful events worldwide, MATLAB EXPO comes to the Nordic region for the first time in 2014." Aren't we lucky?! 10:10:54 Consider it noted. 10:13:58 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:47:26 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:01:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:43:49 -!- yorick has joined. 12:00:22 -!- Namaskar has quit (Quit: Leaving). 12:25:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:25:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:25:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:25:54 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:26:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 12:27:02 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:31:02 -!- password2 has joined. 12:48:29 kmc: -fr is the scow of rm options <-- i tried googling if "is the scow of" was a new meme, but in fact there's only two hits, one of which is a literal scow and the other of which is a misspelling. 12:51:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:54:27 I think the second is a misOCRing, actually. 12:56:05 -!- tertu has joined. 13:04:18 sensible 13:25:22 * oerjan realizes phil foglio writes pretty funny blog posts 13:28:52 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:44:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:50:28 ~meta LOWI 13:50:35 ~metar LOWI 13:50:47 pity 13:51:03 http://www.bergfex.at/tirol/wetter/stationen/innsbruck-flughafen/ then. 13:55:13 Should I get myself Purely Functional Data Structures? Hmm 13:56:27 ok as a ki 13:57:17 Okasaki, hmm. The thesis can be downloaded, maybe look at that and then make your decision. 13:58:53 Okay, I'm ordering it 14:04:37 -!- boily has joined. 14:04:42 -!- metasepia has joined. 14:05:02 oh wait these posts were actually by kaja, not phil. 14:05:37 actually the tagging is confusing. 14:06:13 here's hoping that the tagging is acyclic. 14:07:12 well it's tagged phil's blog but uploaded by kaja. 14:08:41 hm i think that does mean phil wrote it, since others are tagged "kaja's blog". 14:23:25 http://sprunge.us/NCKS <- crazy. 14:23:37 (I heard of a similar thing somewhere in I think Sweden.) 14:24:00 You said all there is to say about that service. 14:25:36 "The German banks sued Sofort for inducing their customers to break their terms and conditions by disclosing passwords, but the case failed when the Federal competition authorities intervened and told the court that competition with the payment card cartel was welcome." 14:25:40 I don't exactly have a great love for banks in general, but that all still feels weird. 14:26:25 So now the banks will go after their customers? 14:27:06 I don't know if they've started to just systematically refuse all fraud claims from anyone who's used that thing. 14:27:17 How is a customer supposed to tell the difference between a benign, honest payment proxy service and a dishonest one? 14:27:29 (But it sounds like something they could conceivably do.) 14:28:30 good terrifying morning! 14:28:45 is there an rsync source for the logs? 14:29:17 There was a hg source, wasn't there? 14:29:42 Don't think there's public rsync, but could be wrong. 14:31:01 `ls wisdom 14:31:02 ​` \ `? \ \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ \ \ ⌨ \ ⊥ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠ 14:31:10 hm... I wanted the special case here. 14:31:14 `run ls wisdom 14:31:15 ​` \ `? \ \ _̰̆̓_̦̻̖͍̟̖̅ͭͭͬ͡_͉̭ͧ͒̐_̯͙̬̬̦̯͂͋͒ͧ͋̋_̴̝̔̉̅ͨ͞ \ ? \ ?? \ @ \ \ \ ⌨ \ ⊥ \ ☃ \ 🐐 \ ̸̸̼͚͇̮͕̳̞̤̜̯̪̪̱̣̠̺̹͍̩̝͚͕͓͚̙͓̪̮̟̜̣͙̪̂ͭ̎̏̔ͦ͒ͪ͌̾ͦͨ̚̚͢͢͠ͅ҉̴̢_͙̣͎͎͙̪̪̝̖͉̟̭̻̥̫̗̱̗͍̳̦̮̟̲̥͔̿̊ͣ̉ͣͪ͒̓̐͊̏ͫ̓̚̚҉̕͜͠͠ 14:31:20 dammit. 14:31:41 `pastewisdom 14:31:42 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 14:32:03 (Though the banks themselves are not much better. I believe I've mentioned 3dsecure here before ...) 14:32:20 int-e: you mentioned that horror before. 14:32:34 meanwhile, IEUAAAAAAAARGH! 14:32:41 `? node 14:32:42 node? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 14:33:33 I've probably missed any mentions of 3-D Secure, but I see it quite a lot these days. A grandiose name it's got, at least. 14:33:42 sofort sounds like a good idea with horribly insecure implementation. 14:35:32 boily: ah yes, that's quite annoying... 14:36:03 `cat bin/ls 14:36:04 ​#!/bin/bash \ if /bin/ls -id "$@" 2>/dev/null | grep -q ^969195 ; then echo 'As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead.'; else exec -a ls /bin/ls "$@"; fi 14:36:05 At least the 3-D Secure banking account query comes directly from the bank. Well, when it isn't a phishing scam version, anyway. 14:36:17 `run /bin/ls -id wisdom 14:36:17 790887 wisdom 14:36:27 fizzie: it still looks like cross site scripting and does not play well with NoScript. 14:36:38 `run sed -i 's/969195/790887/' bin/ls 14:36:40 No output. 14:36:42 -!- trn has joined. 14:36:42 `ls wisdom 14:36:43 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. 14:37:18 `file bin/ls 14:37:18 bin/ls: Bourne-Again shell script, ASCII text executable 14:38:08 !logs 14:38:14 oerjan: the special case is both useful and not at the same time. I think I'm trying to solve the wrong problem here. 14:38:37 int-e: do that and it'll tell you the rsync by notice 14:38:42 what I'm trying to get is a list of mtimes for wisdom entries, in order to fulfill my duty as a Wisdom Lexicographer. 14:38:52 !logs 14:39:32 nice! 14:39:39 oerjan++ 14:40:26 boily: alas the repository browser is currently broken due to being connected to the old HackEgo server 14:40:31 or something like that 14:43:28 and i think Gregor said the http proxy is also broken, which means basically there's no way to get information out of HackEgo except through irc lines 14:47:01 so \ you \ have \ to \ ex \ fil \ trate \ slow \ ly. 14:47:26 (I counted the number of syllables and then decided against using actual newlines. I hope you all appreciate my restraint.) 14:51:17 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:55:06 int-e: «qu' \ est- \ ce \ qui \ a \ be \ soin \ d'être \ ex \ fil \ tré?» (what needs to be exfiltered? (sorry for the French, it's easier for me to count syllables so.)) 15:00:18 da \ ta. 15:06:18 o \ i \ c. 15:11:36 -!- hogeyui__ has changed nick to hogeyui. 15:13:35 `unidecode ṉ 15:13:36 ​[U+1E49 LATIN SMALL LETTER N WITH LINE BELOW] 15:14:08 `uniencode EQUALITY SIGN WITH LINE BELOW 15:14:08 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: uniencode: not found 15:14:10 :( 15:14:42 `unicode EQUALITY SIGN WITH LINE BELOW 15:14:43 Unknown character. 15:14:50 =≡≣ 15:14:51 int-e: :/ 15:14:57 oh, shiny lines! 15:15:30 =̈Ξ̈ 15:15:45 ⪠ (hmm, invisible in my terminal) 15:16:42 that is one fungot of a character. 15:16:42 boily: sit for you? 15:16:57 fungot: indeed. a bunch of lines sitting on top of each other. 15:16:57 boily: you can implement one in c 15:17:08 fungot: well, everything can be implemented in C. 15:17:08 boily: or maybe talking about government or media schemes *ponder* where did you get their... basics. oh, and it 15:17:31 fungot: the government ponders and spies on its citizens, as usual. nothing new there. 15:17:31 boily: erc doesn't seem to be wanting to restrict yourself that way? :o) so, i'm switching off python 15:17:50 fungot: Python can't be switched off. Python is the Eternal Light. 15:19:01 `unidecode ⛃ 15:19:02 ​[U+26C3 BLACK DRAUGHTS KING] 15:20:28 `unicode SHORT LEFTWARDS ARROW ABOVE RIGHTWARDS ARROW 15:20:29 Unknown character. 15:20:43 `unidecode ⥂⥃⥄ 15:20:44 ​[U+2942 RIGHTWARDS ARROW ABOVE SHORT LEFTWARDS ARROW] [U+2943 LEFTWARDS ARROW ABOVE SHORT RIGHTWARDS ARROW] [U+2944 SHORT RIGHTWARDS ARROW ABOVE LEFTWARDS ARROW] 15:21:09 I don't get it. Why add 3 of four combinations? 15:22:19 because the fourth was banned by the [REDACTED] branch of the Second Schism of the East-North-Eastern Quasi-Orthodox Sub-Russian Christian Amalgamated Church. 15:23:18 (My fault, I still haven't given up the idea that Unicode is supposed to make sense.) 15:23:36 int-e: when in doubt, the answer is back compat 15:23:43 Honestly, I should know better. 15:24:46 I should instead marvel at the perfectly regular Braille range. 15:30:05 ꕂꕀ\o/ꕁꕀ 15:30:06 | 15:30:06 /< 15:32:10 🀲🀹🀺🀿🀴🁌🁜🀻🁊🁍 15:32:50 Oh I think screen destroyed those. 15:34:47 a bunch of . 15:37:33 they were supposed to be dominoes 15:38:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:40:30 second attempt at dominating: 🀱🀲🀳🀴🀵🀶🀷 15:40:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:41:21 https://www.quakenet.org/articles/102-press-release-irc-networks-under-systematic-attack-from-governments 15:42:40 boily: if you check the logs you'll see that both attempts worked: 15:42:47 http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-02-06 15:43:02 int-e: my local weechat logs seem to bork them, sadly. 15:43:28 (or probably not. an hexdump has them all.) 15:44:16 strangely, myndzi 69ed his stick figure. 15:46:20 They are right in my Weechat buffer and logs. 15:49:34 something is wrong here. very wrong. 15:50:55 the stick figure looks completely sfw here 15:51:31 oerjan: it is. the characters ‘6’ and ‘9’ are displayed twice before the body. 15:51:49 ah the log thing is because of some irc codes that don't show up in browsers 15:53:36 ah. 15:54:03 you can see the same kind of thing whenever someone `relcomes 15:54:58 `relcome `relcome 15:54:59 ​`relcome: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:55:07 i assume myndzi's codes are to make the figures look good in more clients 15:55:11 I am now illuminated. 15:55:30 * FireFly moves the flashlight away from boily's face 15:55:42 `relcome doesn't need welcoming, it's been here for ages 15:55:52 `relcome HackEgo 15:55:53 ​HackEgo: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:55:54 ^Cnnn[,nnn] switches colors in mIRC, but color 69 is not defined. ^O switches back to the original. 15:55:54 -!- ais523 has changed nick to callforjudgement. 15:55:56 -!- Johnnie has joined. 15:56:03 looks like a complete waste of bandwidth to me. 15:56:03 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 15:56:22 int-e: presumably to avoid bots interpreting it as a command 15:56:26 * boily grabs back his precious flashlight from FireFly, thank you very much. 15:56:36 FireFly: plausible, thanks 15:57:05 But I think just ^O should do it, really 15:57:08 (thausible?) 15:57:48 Minor dilemma...should I switch all of the syntax on my language to Morse Code, or leave it as Amateur Radio Callsigns? (In other words, do I really need to be nice?) 15:57:59 FireFly: yes, but given the channel's background, sneaking in a 69 that noone is ever likely to see is kind of cute. 15:58:11 Fair point. 15:59:10 Johnnie: I like the ARC words. 15:59:34 int-e: a “thausible” thing is one that is theoretically plausible. 16:00:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:00:19 That seems thausible to me. 16:01:30 I do too, boily. I think I need to emphasize SPAM/1 as a morse code language somehow. How about this...ARC words in defining syntax and examples, and morse code in coding examples? 16:01:39 thausiblee 16:02:52 Johnnie: sounds good. 16:03:41 `run echo 'A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.' >wisdom/thausiblee 16:03:43 No output. 16:04:12 Also: thausiblee = thausible and only thausible 16:04:39 I feel like I'm on a roll. I'm going to define more of the mathematics section tonight. I felt I needed to deal with output of large and small numbers first and get that out of the way, at least. 16:16:54 -!- Johnnie has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:30:51 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:32:35 Anothellost. 16:33:36 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:34:02 -!- augur has joined. 16:34:52 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:35:11 -!- augur has joined. 16:47:40 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:47:57 -!- augur has joined. 16:48:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:48:49 -!- augur has joined. 16:52:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:57:27 boily: i was looking at a similar triangles worksheet with a flagpole problem on it and my brain reported the word as "mapole" the first time i scanned it. 16:57:47 boily: you are a breeder of memetic viruses 17:05:40 boily: define the mapole problem 17:06:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:08:12 hi ais523 17:09:12 hi quintopia 17:09:51 did you see the queue machine thing i made up? 17:10:30 it seems like the kind of thing you are capable of proving things about and i am woefully poor at 17:14:30 no, I didn't 17:14:33 do you have a link? 17:15:49 there are lots of links related to it, but all discussion happened right here yesterday .... would have been about 6pm UTC 17:16:16 i was going to make a wiki article but haven't decided on a name yet :P 17:21:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:22:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:37:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:45:21 -!- augur has joined. 17:48:56 oerjan: it is among a small group of people, and they have grown tired of it 17:55:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:55:44 -!- augur has joined. 17:58:04 ais523: boily: int-e: which name do you like the best: Copper, Resplicate, Pocopure 18:02:22 quinthellopia! 18:02:25 resplicate. 18:03:25 it sounds like res publica. the Res Plicate: the Thing of the Plic. 18:03:58 also, I'm glad that your brain was memetised :D 18:05:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:09:05 boily: it's a chimæra actually. a portmanteau of slice, replicate, and splice 18:14:00 what do you call a device that does the same thing over and over, and the thing it does may or may not be capable of arbitrary computation 18:14:40 fractran is an example, but the wiki describes it as a "computational model" presumably because it is known to be capable of arbitrary computation 18:15:38 hmm maybe computational model is what i want 18:15:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:17:40 quintopia: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/thing.png 18:20:31 Did you just design the logo of Resplicate? 18:20:40 I approve 18:20:58 boily: :D :D :D :D 18:21:55 while waiting for that to load i became aware of just how crazy the temporal dithering of my monitor on the particular shade of grey firefox uses is 18:22:22 temporal dithering? 18:22:39 * boily imagines palette dithering techniques applied to the time dimension. “ow.” 18:23:11 boily: it's that 18:24:52 ... that is vile. 18:29:45 It's just generalised PCM. 18:29:53 -!- conehead has joined. 18:30:09 quintopia: I don't notice the temporal dithering on my laptop unless I look really closely 18:30:23 I don't think my old laptop actually does any temporal dithering at all 18:31:06 Add a low pass filter (like rod cells and nerves) and you won't notice a thing. 18:31:06 -!- augur has joined. 18:38:26 how to wikify images floating to the right of the text 18:38:37 quintopia: I like Copper best 18:39:07 nooodl: are you going to vote? 18:39:09 also [[Image:foo|thumb|right|description]] IIRC, but I haven't done it for ages 18:39:17 so there may be minor mistakes there 18:39:21 * boily mapoles the heretic-ais523 away “Long Live Resplicate!” 18:39:34 yeah, i have to 18:40:36 nooodl: i mean are you going to vote on the name of the queue game/computational model/language thing 18:40:48 nooodl: which name do you like the best: Copper, Resplicate, Pocopure 18:41:10 I think nooodl 'has to' vote for Pocopure 18:41:29 FreeFull: FireFly: how are you voting 18:41:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:42:34 I like Resplicate. 18:42:37 me too 18:42:56 -!- spiette has joined. 18:43:38 it also has the best logo. but Copper is the name of my dog, and i have a picture of him wearing my mustache which could also be a good logo! 18:44:30 You make a convincing argument 18:44:52 `relcome spiette 18:44:53 ​spiette: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:45:22 quintopia: Voting for? 18:50:55 FreeFull: quintopia seems frozen. 18:51:00 ~metar KATL 18:51:01 KATL 061752Z 00000KT 10SM BKN140 BKN200 BKN250 05/M04 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP256 T00501044 10050 21017 58012 18:51:09 FreeFull: at least, refrigerated. 19:05:28 -!- augur has joined. 19:05:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:06:58 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:32 ~metar EFHK 19:15:32 EFHK 061850Z VRB02KT 8000 NSC M10/M11 Q1003 NOSIG 19:16:11 NSC indeed. 19:17:09 ~metar CYUL 19:17:09 CYUL 061900Z 22011KT 30SM FEW020 FEW120 BKN220 M12/M18 A3024 RMK CF1AC1CI4 CF TR SLP242 19:17:11 I went out and took a picture of the moon, and indeed there were No Significant Clouds. 19:17:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:17:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:18:19 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:18:19 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:18:29 ~foobar 19:18:29 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 19:20:41 Curiously enough, the phase of the moon turned out -- completely by coincidence -- to be pretty much exactly the same it was in 2009 when I did the same thing on a previous camera: just shot the moon with no telescopes or whatnots. 19:24:05 fizzie: I badly photographed the moon a few years ago: http://boily.deviantart.com/art/Fuzzy-super-harvest-moon-180200524 19:25:46 boily: Here's my old and new ones: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140206-mooncomp.jpg 19:27:02 shiny! 19:27:23 You can almost see the US flag! (Not really.) 19:47:11 fizzie: that raised an interesting question. cf. http://www.rocketroberts.com/astro/flag_on_moon.htm 19:49:09 -!- augur has joined. 19:51:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:55:10 is it possible to prove there's a flag on the moon from the earth? 19:55:38 Does it count if you send (from the Earth) some kind of a thing up there that sends back pictures? 19:55:58 depends on what proof you need ... can you even prove that the moon exists from the earth? 19:56:02 shine a very bright laser on the flag. if it bursts up, then there was one. 19:56:20 They do the "bounce a laser through the retroreflectors" experiment quite often, AIUI. 19:56:21 it seems int-e's link is about exactly this 19:56:41 Though that only proves there's something retroreflectorey up there, and not a flag. 19:57:31 so there's a specific place on the moon that retroreflects? 19:57:41 that sounds like some kind of proof that someone's been there at least 19:58:02 `echo 'The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.' >wisdom/moon 19:58:02 ​'The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.' >wisdom/moon 19:58:04 I'm not sure how narrow a beam they shoot. 19:58:08 `run echo 'The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.' >wisdom/moon 19:58:09 No output. 19:58:20 But I suppose they do target one of the reflectors when doing that. 19:58:23 perhaps the people who doubt space travel aren't the same people who own space lasers 19:58:24 (There's several of them.) 19:58:35 retroreflexive? 19:58:55 "The typical red laser pointer is about 5 milliwatts, and a good one has a tight enough beam to actually hit the Moon—though it’d be spread out over a large fraction of the surface when it got there." http://what-if.xkcd.com/13/ 19:59:09 oklopol: Yes, and the "proof" comes in from of a computer screen where slowly a hump becomes visible in a graph. 19:59:28 oklopol: So obviously the scienceperson doing the experiment is just faking it. 19:59:32 (you need a better laser. oh and plenty of power to be able to actually see any of the reflected light.) 19:59:51 fizzie: but in theory, you could do the experiment from scratch in your own home 19:59:55 if you have moneys 20:00:05 no? 20:00:26 Well, I suppose. The moneys and the expertise, that is. 20:00:49 it seems unlikely that people find out that you're using the lasers you buy to check for retroreflectors and rig them to shoot lasers that retroreflect from stone if they are being shot toward the moon 20:01:10 Some of the moon landing hoax debunk pages list evidence like that; I think there's photos from moon-orbiting satellites that show some of the landing sites. 20:01:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_evidence_for_Apollo_Moon_landings 20:02:07 (Of course that's just evidence that the conspiracy is larger.) 20:02:59 `? cocoonspirator 20:03:00 A cocoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in caterpillar silk 20:03:22 `? coonspirator 20:03:23 coonspirator? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 20:03:30 `? racoonspirator 20:03:31 A racoonspirator is a collaborator wrapped in fur 20:03:50 the Moon Landings are a mystery wrapped in an enigma wrapped in cosmic butterflies. 20:03:56 `echo 'A coonspirator is a colloquial term for a racoonspirator' > wisdom/coonspirator 20:03:57 ​'A coonspirator is a colloquial term for a racoonspirator' > wisdom/coonspirator 20:04:02 `run echo 'A coonspirator is a colloquial term for a racoonspirator' > wisdom/coonspirator 20:04:03 No output. 20:04:24 `` echo 'A coonspirator is caterpillar silk wrapped in collaborators.' > wisdom/coonspirator 20:04:25 No output. 20:04:47 going to go with int-e for that one. 20:05:07 `? conspirabiology 20:05:07 conspirabiology is where moth colourings form a dot matrix display to send you subliminal messages. 20:05:45 sounds like a cococoonspirator 20:06:29 and conspirabiology moths are probably postcocoonspirators 20:07:14 I should subliminatically inspire the Crawl devs to include Conspirabiology Moths in the next release :D 20:07:33 (now that Suppression Moths are to be removed. bummer.) 20:07:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:08:33 isn't "cocaterpillar silk wrapped in llaborators" how oyou're supposed to make that terrible joke, 20:10:07 I think co is like negation and something similar to demorgan's rule applies, but how to apply it is ... not always obvious 20:10:20 at least not everything flips all the time 20:10:41 nooodl: the opposite category has the same objects as the original one. only the arrows are inverted. 20:11:06 and co-properties are usually properties in the opposite category. 20:20:06 elliott__: help 20:23:14 chelloppro. 20:23:55 `hello coppro 20:23:55 Hello 20:24:10 hmm, did I do something wrong? 20:24:18 I can't haskell 20:24:25 bah, who can 20:24:25 `ello coppro 20:24:26 copprello 20:24:37 I'm guessing `hello is GNU hello 20:24:39 `hello -h 20:24:40 Hello 20:24:41 fungot: can you haskell 20:24:42 olsner: we all knew that already... with pattern matching). its a program which used packrat. 20:24:45 maybe not 20:24:56 `cat bin/hello 20:24:57 echo Hello 20:24:59 olsner: clearly. They even know how to pattern-match 20:25:09 why is reasoning about haskell designs so goddamn hard 20:25:25 FireFly: I think fungot's an it 20:25:25 olsner: it would be not starting the homework until it is needed. :p anyway, the test is easy to use with w3m? w3? 20:25:39 Oh, okay 20:25:45 I just like using singular they 20:25:53 -!- augur has joined. 20:26:10 I have noticed them FireFly do like they, they do 20:26:49 fungot: do you low-pass your retina? 20:26:49 boily: ( open file ' ./linguine/ linguine.py': errno 13 permission denied 20:27:01 fungot: sure. 20:27:01 boily: i'm robert fnord. here take a piece of freenode furniture 20:27:43 Good. This channel could use some more furniture 20:29:03 `addquote I'm Robert Fnord. Here, take a piece of freenode furniture. 20:29:03 olsner: ok i loaded srfi 13 now. i should have no syntax errors: lisp! :) 20:29:04 1166) I'm Robert Fnord. Here, take a piece of freenode furniture. 20:30:07 (eval (read fungot)) 20:30:07 FireFly: yes, somewhat. the s-expr version would take about a page of elisp tutorial 20:30:30 fungot: are you the George Foreman of furniture now? 20:30:30 boily: mmm. so good :) 20:30:36 fungot: it must be! 20:30:36 boily: same thing. the only pleasing parts of the file. what exactly are those continuations that multi passes? 20:30:48 fungot: I don't understand continuations. 20:30:49 boily: everything? :o) where 20:30:57 fungot: in Haskell. they hurt my brain. 20:30:58 boily: if you want the with-alist. code? 20:31:08 fungot: there is a list? 20:32:12 * boily shakes fungot “WHERE IS THE LIST?” 20:32:54 that bot has flood control 20:33:01 it'll stop responding to any given person after a while 20:33:16 boily apparently doesn't have flood control 20:33:23 fungot: do you hate boily 20:33:23 nooodl: did the glass suffer damage? :) ( of course, i could 20:33:25 ais523: I know. I just like molesting bots. 20:33:35 `quote damn your mother 20:33:36 950) * fungot has joined #esoteric woohoo! the one and only fungot is back! boily: damn your mother! ok. never saw that one coming. 20:33:48 boily: fungot could hate you! 20:33:49 nooodl: in theory, you could simply enter a new definition 20:34:06 Just redefine boily and everything will be fine 20:34:09 (in theory, that is) 20:34:29 I won't be redefined! that is categorically unthausible. 20:34:40 boily := fungot 20:34:40 olsner: i guess :) i haven't found them.) is very difficult for math people to let go of sysrq but not of the form 20:35:02 > let begin c = c []; push xs x c = c (x:xs); bin (?) (a:b:xs) c = c (b?a:xs); add = bin (+); sub = bin (-); end [v] = v in begin push 1 push 2 push 4 add sub push 3 sub end 20:35:04 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = t0 -> a0 20:35:04 Expected type: [a0] 20:35:04 Actual type: [t0 -> a0] 20:35:19 oh. monomorphism etc. 20:35:31 ~eval let begin c = c []; push xs x c = c (x:xs); bin (?) (a:b:xs) c = c (b?a:xs); add = bin (+); sub = bin (-); end [v] = v in begin push 1 push 2 push 4 add sub push 3 sub end 20:35:34 Error (1): 20:35:37 ~eval let begin c = c []; push xs x c = c (x:xs); bin (?) (a:b:xs) c = c (b?a:xs); add = bin (+); sub = bin (-); end [v] = v in begin push 1 push 2 push 4 add sub push 3 sub end 20:35:38 Error (1): Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = t0 -> a0 20:35:38 Expected type: [a0] 20:35:38 Actual type: [t0 -> a0] 20:36:04 I read something about the next GHC disabling MR by default, so it seems finally the future is here 20:36:18 \o/ 20:36:18 | 20:36:19 >\ 20:36:20 > let begin c = c []; push xs x c = c (x:xs); bin (?) (a:b:xs) c = c (b? a:xs); add = bin (+); sub = bin (-); end [v] = v in begin push 1 push 2 push 4 add sub push 3 sub end 20:36:22 -8 20:36:23 ^celebrate 20:36:23 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 20:36:23 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 20:36:23 /< c.c >\ /| | | /| c.c |\ | >\|/| c.c /| 20:36:24 (_|¯´¯|_) /'\ 20:36:24 (_| |_) 20:36:29 woot 20:36:55 what's the c.c thing supposed to be 20:36:55 c.c.c 20:36:55 c.c 20:36:56 implicit arguments make b?a a function application. 20:37:01 :t (?) 20:37:02 Not in scope: `?' 20:37:17 Slereah_: a multiocular o, I believe 20:37:19 boily: bin (?) ... <-- it was an argument name. 20:37:27 Slereah_: it's a combination of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiocular_O and the "c.c" emotiwhatever 20:37:28 int-e: oh. 20:37:36 which is like "eyes looking away in vague disapproval" 20:37:49 that's what it is? 20:37:53 https://github.com/ghc/ghc/commit/5bda0d08d8fec86433917b65a93836d2372a5b5c 20:38:02 it only says ghci though 20:39:44 olsner: I misdiagnosed the problem anyway 20:42:33 In any case it'd be MonoLocalBinds I think. But it wasn't :) 20:47:05 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:52:08 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:53:53 > 768*3 20:53:54 2304 20:54:55 > 48^2 20:54:56 2304 20:56:13 ~eval 2 ** 8 * 3 ** 2 20:56:13 2304.0 20:56:52 ~eval 2^8 * 3^2 20:56:53 2304 20:57:05 ~eval 2 ** 2 ** 3 * 3 ** 2 20:57:06 2304.0 20:57:32 :t map 20:57:33 (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] 20:57:39 @define 20:57:40 Define what? 20:57:50 :t map map map 20:57:51 Couldn't match expected type `[a0 -> b0]' 20:57:51 with actual type `(a1 -> b1) -> [a1] -> [b1]' 20:57:51 In the second argument of `map', namely `map' 20:57:52 how do you define a function in lambdabot again? 20:57:56 :t fmap fmap fmap 20:57:57 (Functor f, Functor f1) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b) 20:58:02 :t fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap fmap 20:58:03 (Functor f, Functor f1, Functor f2) => f (a -> b) -> f (f1 (f2 a) -> f1 (f2 b)) 20:58:07 @let 20:58:08 Define what? 20:58:17 `thanks int-e 20:58:18 Thanks, int-e. Thint-e. 20:58:22 At some point adding more fmaps loops you around to an earlier state 20:58:39 @define boily = 42 20:58:41 Defined. 20:58:46 it seems that works, too 20:59:02 int-e: I thought I mentioned that I wasn't to be redefined, you fiendish scalliwag. 20:59:13 @undef 20:59:13 Undefined. 20:59:29 @let factorMap = fromList . map (head &&& length) . group . primeFactors 20:59:30 .L.hs:142:13: 20:59:30 Not in scope: `fromList' 20:59:30 Perhaps you meant one of these: 20:59:30 `IM.fromList' (imported from Data.IntMap), 20:59:30 `M.fromList' (imported from Data.Map), 20:59:37 @let factorMap = M.fromList . map (head &&& length) . group . primeFactors 20:59:38 .L.hs:143:50: Not in scope: `primeFactors' 20:59:43 ah c'mon... 20:59:56 @let import Data.Numbers.Primes 20:59:56 .L.hs:96:1: 20:59:56 Failed to load interface for `Data.Numbers.Primes' 20:59:57 Perhaps you meant Data.Number.Fixed (from numbers-3000.2.0.0) 20:59:57 Use -v to see a list of the files searched for. 21:03:31 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:06:20 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 21:07:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:09:20 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PENULTIMATE CHICKEN). 21:09:22 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:19:21 -!- conehead has joined. 21:51:43 -!- Bike has joined. 22:10:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:20:18 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:37:51 `run echo 'A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.' >wisdom/thausiblee <-- that could have been done with `learn 22:39:05 `learn 22:39:06 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/learn: No such file or directory 22:47:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:00:10 Curiously enough, the phase of the moon turned out -- completely by coincidence [...] <-- surely that particular phase has the effect of making you want to photograph the moon hth 23:02:54 @tell boily `learn now removes english articles hth 23:02:55 Consider it noted. 23:03:32 `? szoup 23:03:33 A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit. 23:03:40 also one hungarian one 23:06:11 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:40 -!- augur has joined. 23:09:31 it seems unlikely that people find out that you're using the lasers you buy to check for retroreflectors and rig them to shoot lasers that retroreflect from stone if they are being shot toward the moon 23:10:17 i'd say the idea someone can make lasers that retroreflect from a non-manmade substance is a conspiracy in itself. 23:10:25 *+theory 23:21:12 `? gaszpacho 23:21:12 gaszpacho is a polish soup, traditionally szerved cold for hot szummer days 23:22:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:23:50 `quote 1146 23:23:50 1146) OKAY 23:23:56 oops 23:23:59 `quote 1166 23:24:00 1166) I'm Robert Fnord. Here, take a piece of freenode furniture. 23:24:10 * oerjan cannot remember a number for five seconds 23:24:19 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:25:04 `qoteadd `quote 1146 1146) OKAY 23:25:05 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: qoteadd: not found 23:25:05 `delquote 1166 23:25:07 ​*poof* I'm Robert Fnord. Here, take a piece of freenode furniture. 23:25:12 :( 23:25:28 `addquote boily: i'm robert fnord. here take a piece of freenode furniture 23:25:29 oerjan: i never understood method decorators... monkey prostates. the problem is of course true. and yet it does 23:25:30 1166) boily: i'm robert fnord. here take a piece of freenode furniture 23:25:39 Oh 23:25:45 * oerjan swats olsner for fake quoting -----### 23:26:07 fungot: yeah, me neither 23:26:07 FireFly: sorry. seems the changes i propose: 23:28:14 `‍ad‍dq‍uo‍te‍ * oerjan loves olsner to fake quoting <3<3<3<3 23:30:06 `addquote `quote 1146 1146) OKAY 23:30:08 1167) `quote 1146 1146) OKAY 23:30:24 I have a feeling that one won't stay for too long 23:35:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:50:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 2014-02-07: 00:02:20 http://rifers.org/03_numberguess/src/ 00:02:37 Exactly what I want to see when I click to browse example source code for a web framework 00:04:04 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:12:31 -!- w00tles has joined. 00:19:21 Looks enterprisey 00:22:12 It's trying to translate a cool concept to an enterprisey language 00:27:37 -!- luserdroog has joined. 00:36:38 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:43:40 -!- augur has joined. 00:44:23 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:44:30 -!- augur has joined. 01:05:33 scott aaronson sarcasts on science journalism (scroll to the MAGIC 8-BALL) http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1679 01:21:00 funnily enough i saw him extensively quoted in some pop sci today 01:21:31 Help I am game programming in Haskell 01:21:32 http://lpaste.net/99581 01:21:38 fizzie: i've been watching the status of parallel matlab jobs through windows task manager. 01:22:06 Bike: well he was quoted in the thing he's blogging about, too 01:22:51 yeh 01:23:08 the one i read was a basic "holy shit, halting problem!" thing 01:23:49 ... 01:23:58 just noticed I've been writing my lambdas backwards 01:24:28 what was the end quote. something like "it's good to know electronic brains can't be perfect" 01:25:10 Taneb: what's with the "fmap Right"s 01:26:05 nooodl, in theory I could instead do a Left thingy which would be treated as a sort of "missing value" error by netwire 01:32:41 kmc: i should figure out how people solve yao's millionaire problem 01:48:03 "Smokers will need to fetch an older copy of cigarettes.txt from CVS after October 1st " 01:48:20 oh i get it 01:48:21 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:49:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:12:25 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:19:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:21:23 elliott__: you're no help 02:55:10 -!- conehead has joined. 02:55:37 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:57:09 data Stream b = SCons (b, Stream b) 02:57:14 Why a tuple? 02:57:28 Rather than two arguments to SCons? 03:02:41 Ok, fine, makes sense 03:16:16 "Note that this has nothing to do with execution. printFibN does not execute a print statement. No more than writing printFibN on a piece of paper will cause it to magically evaluate." 03:16:42 Wonder if that will catch on as a description 03:17:02 sounds like if it did, that would be some damn useful paper, though 03:32:19 does anyone remember which language of ais523 is the one where there's like a table of memory cells and the only instruction is like copy the contents of that one to this one and jump to that other one? 03:33:46 Bike: lol at that quote. "perfect" meaning "omniscient" I guess? 03:34:25 something silly 03:35:44 "By slaying the mythical loop snooper, Turing taught us that there are fundamental limits to what computers can do. We all have our limits, and in a way it's comforting to know that the artificial brains that we create will always have theirs too." 03:36:00 [whatever] brain is such a shitty word for computers, grr 03:43:51 "let's call the subset of computers which aren't brains [blah] brains! so the all computers are brains, yay!" 03:44:23 it's okay as long as [blah] is Matryoshka 03:45:42 only because those are so sci-fi it doesn't matter. 03:47:26 here's my best reword: "it's good to know that things which are made out of stuff in this universe will always be incapable of doing things which are impossible in this universe." 03:52:39 Oh no am I going to start watching these now? 03:52:41 http://www.youtube.com/playlist?annotation_id=annotation_3883136257&feature=iv&list=PL4NL9i-Fu15hhYGB-d0hmSWD1fcIvLvn1&src_vid=oOGJQD0WXkk 03:56:30 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:18:17 kmc: a paper on occurence typing: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/icfp10-thf.pdf 04:21:52 Although really, the use of such predicates often makes me uncomfortable 04:22:00 Like it indicates someone likely doing something silly 04:32:22 silly... or extraordinary? 04:34:38 the goggles do nothing 04:56:55 coppro: ? 05:09:01 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:39:28 Bike: OHSHIT NOT THE BLINKY TEXT 05:39:57 it doesn't show on this term, i really should fix this stupid thing 05:40:02 by which i mean use something else. 05:42:38 how do you do that again 05:45:25 ^F 05:45:39 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: term term term, wei wei). 05:45:58 -!- Bike has joined. 05:46:08 test 05:46:13 sweet. 05:46:32 it's too bad you can't adjust the phase 05:46:39 sawtooth wave 05:48:00 there's probably some term somewhere that let you feed analog functions to the monitorssss 06:09:00 oh god not this again 06:30:02 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:12:19 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:12:33 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:14:16 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 07:22:32 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:25:02 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:26:21 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Changing host). 07:26:22 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 07:31:26 ~metar EFHK 07:31:34 Bah. 07:32:01 I wanted to see the VISIBILITY, it is very FOGGY here. 07:36:45 EFHK 070720Z 12005KT 0200 R04R/0550N R15/0375N R22L/0550N R04L/0500N FZFG VV001 M03/M03 Q1003 TEMPO 0600 07:37:59 So FZFGgy. 07:38:21 you can ask dirac for the weather. dirac is online usually and prints human-readable weather. 07:45:31 -!- w00tles has joined. 07:51:41 * kmc !important; 07:52:52 There's just something about them METARs. 07:54:39 Huh. Amazon has a Kindle edition of The Reasoned Schemer, but B&N doesn't have an epub version 07:54:53 Is that going to be a trend, or is that just me rationalizing having gotten a Kindle? 07:55:28 `quote metar 07:55:29 994) metar lead to canada, more metar and cows 07:59:33 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:04:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 08:06:20 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:07:33 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:18:01 "make: stat: GNUmakefile: Transport endpoint is not connected" huh 08:18:18 Oh, it's just a disconnected sshfs thing, never mind. 08:23:50 -!- w00tles_ has joined. 08:24:14 -!- w00tles has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:37:37 yay ResPlicate page posted 08:39:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 10:16:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 10:19:48 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:40:11 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:42:51 ais523: I just found a ResPlicate sequence that goes 12850 cycles before deleting itself! how are you? 10:43:04 I'm not doing great, but I'll survive 10:43:11 and it's an interesting language 10:43:49 ais523: feel better! 10:43:53 I haven't "broken" it in terms of TCness yet, although my first thoughts are a) try to avoid the same queue element being used for both a length and a repeat count if possible, b) try to simulate a tag system 10:45:15 ais523: well that first condition is easy to meet. just make sure all the odd numbered elements of the sequence are even numbers :) 10:45:31 quintopia: yep, that's why I thought of it 10:45:31 (and that there is an even number of numbers in the sequence) 10:45:37 it seems trivial and make reasoning about the language much easier 10:46:09 but it seems to do much more interesting things when you let them be odd :P 10:52:59 ais523: besides yourself, what's your short list of "esolang experts" 10:53:29 quintopia: oerjan's highest on the list, he's better at it than I am 10:53:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:54:07 nooodl: I improved your ResPlicate interpreter and am having so much fun I can't go to sleep 10:54:34 :D 10:54:47 ais523: really? I would have had a tough time deciding between you two. And maybe John Conway also. 10:55:01 fwiw i think Resplicate looks better than ResPlicate 10:55:10 TOO LATE 10:55:52 hm, the problem with trying to program in ResPlicate is that you don't have any external source of data, copying is the /only/ way to make the string longer 10:56:48 yes. if you want a number in there, you better start with it in there. 10:57:34 and you have to keep it in there too. that's even harder. 10:58:50 nooodl: the sequence family 6 3 10 1 6 2 2k+1 1 is amaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing. try it! 11:25:03 -!- yorick has joined. 11:30:45 quintopia: i don't see the pattern i think 11:41:23 nooodl: there's no pattern! that's what's so great! most of them delete themselves, some of them become all-twos, and a few grow. 11:58:52 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:05:16 -!- conehead has joined. 12:13:31 sounds like if it did, that would be some damn useful paper, though <-- note to future logreaders: back when this was written, most paper was _not_ ... heck we haven't even decided what to call it yet. 12:14:20 also, google and wikipedia were most unhelpful. 12:14:38 oerjan: I think it's just called smart paper. 12:14:43 ah. 12:14:50 quintopia: I have a plan for proving resplicate TC already, not sure if it works or not though 12:14:56 future logreaders: see fizzie ^ 12:15:13 (Source: Neal Stephenson, "The Diamond Age".) 12:16:17 ais523: well i could already visualize how a tag system might be shaped, but it wasn't readily apparent how to do some parts of it 12:16:24 ais523: i'm ready to hear what you've got 12:16:31 I'm not ready to explain it yet though 12:17:06 okay i'll go back to not sleeping and reading about bytebeat 12:17:28 one of the things I'm bad at is converting thoughts into a medium that other people can understand 12:17:37 I can normally manage it eventually, but it takes a while 12:18:07 ais523: it seems similar to Self BCT? although with the ability to handle somewhat larger sequences in one step. 12:18:25 oerjan: not really, doesn't self BCT have two pointers? 12:18:39 oh maybe. 12:30:08 -!- w00tles_ has quit (Quit: quit). 12:32:41 -!- w00tles has joined. 12:35:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:39:25 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:40:48 quintopia: i cannot compete with conway, i've fought him and lost. 12:45:55 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:56 "Authors retain the right to use the accepted author manuscript for personal use, internal institutional use and for permitted scholarly posting provided that these are not for purposes of commercial use or systematic distribution." "Systematic distribution means: policies or other mechanisms designed to aggregate and openly disseminate, or to substitute for journal-provided services --" 12:51:55 Is this why faculty websites always look unsystematic 12:52:27 Perhaps. 12:53:16 Also any "Institutional, funding body or government manuscript posting policies or mandates that aim to aggregate and openly distribute the work by its researchers or funded researchers", no matter how haphazardly implemented, count as "systematic distribution". 12:54:19 researchers or funded researchers 12:54:39 Yes, I noticed that too. 12:57:05 I guess it could imply that it considers policies that apply to researchers, or policies that apply to funded researchers. (As a corollary, a policy that applies to "all researchers except this one guy" would then not be systematic distribution.) 12:59:46 (The "loophole" person, whose work would not be included, could be an annually changing position.) 13:01:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:02:42 -!- boily has joined. 13:04:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:09:16 -!- augur has joined. 13:20:17 -!- spiette has joined. 13:22:19 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:22:27 good unmechanical morning! 13:22:36 @massages-loud 13:22:37 oerjan said 14h 19m 41s ago: `learn now removes english articles hth 13:22:47 oerjan: shiny! 13:22:53 Supershiny. 13:23:17 fungot: Why don't you do an AI-complete fact database thing? 13:23:18 fizzie: this is too stupid to talk to my roommate this fall who's into public sex, lose any aesthetic sense as it is 13:23:31 Oh, okay. 13:24:14 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:24:41 it's... actually a sensible reason. 13:25:03 I guess even bots can be affected by public sexing roommates. 13:26:06 I'm a bit puzzled about it, though, since fungot's hardware is in our apartment, and we're not into public sex at all. 13:26:06 fizzie: yes. but not planning writing actually.)) be () 13:28:01 fizzie: we're not in the Fall season yet. maybe fungot's planning to go study abroad or something? 13:28:01 boily: when placed on each 13:28:11 fungot: on each what? 13:28:11 boily: finally a sane network topology with the firewall physically between local network and internet... no esoteric) 13:28:39 fizzie: that confirms my theory. he's going to MIT to study network topologies between firewalls. 13:29:07 boily: Have you been sending fake student exchange applications again? 13:29:10 Ar. 13:29:13 fungot: ^ 13:29:14 fizzie: something like fnord should execute the handler, so it would be 13:32:55 incidentally, me neither. I didn't send fake student exchange applications again. 13:33:13 fungot: nothing is like fnord. 13:33:13 boily: what is your native language?)... that made it difficult. 13:33:22 fungot: French. I know it makes everything difficult. 13:33:23 boily: last time what? scheme hardly has any guterals, although the universities now have changed to an ascii value. 13:33:30 ~duck guteral 13:33:30 --- No relevant information 13:33:42 uhm. what is a guteral, and its ASCII value? 13:33:52 it's probably a misspelling of guttural 13:34:07 and indeed scheme has none 13:37:59 "Gutenberg" would be a good unit for amount of written text. 13:38:16 * boily pharyngealizes C0 and C1 codes “FF US NUL GS OSC *cough*” 13:38:33 1 Gutenberg equals the amount of material in Project Gutenberg. Er, except now that I think of it, it's not a very stable unit. 13:41:57 -!- w00tles has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:42:09 -!- w00tles has joined. 13:44:55 -!- w00tles has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:45:00 -!- w00tles_ has joined. 13:46:21 whell00tles. 13:57:14 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:58:26 huh? 13:58:37 int-e: did you accidentaly lambdabot? 13:58:54 -!- w00tles_ has quit (Quit: quit). 14:00:58 -!- w00tles has joined. 14:01:19 -!- lambdabot has joined. 14:15:57 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 14:34:21 -!- utkarsh has joined. 14:50:35 -!- w00tles has joined. 14:52:11 So I hear fungot's going abroad 14:52:11 FireFly: are you even asking me this? snakes fnord with human evolution? somewhere in between them 14:52:56 Very knowledgeable in biology, I hear 14:54:58 -!- Johnnie has joined. 14:55:55 A friend of mine told me today that I am now in the Turing tarpit. I had to google that up to realize that I'm on the right track with SPAM/1 ^__^ 14:55:57 `relcome utkarsh 14:55:58 ​utkarsh: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:56:20 Jellohnnie! good tarpitual morning! 14:56:21 Johnnie: tarpits are a large category of esolangs 14:56:26 @localtime Johnnie 14:56:27 Local time for Johnnie is Fri Feb 07 09:59:36 2014 14:56:40 and one of the categories that more commonly produces interesting research 14:56:45 I had forgotten it's a global community. 14:57:06 Had no idea, but I'm gathering this is a really good thing. 14:57:10 Johnnie: I think I can ask you the The Question: what are your approximate geographic coördinates and body weigh? 14:57:25 hello everyone 14:57:32 sup 14:57:38 soup. 14:57:50 ...body weight? 14:58:27 boily: you typoed The Question 14:58:40 not that it's an interesting question, IMO 14:58:59 I did? 14:59:14 Johnnie: no, you did nothing wrong 14:59:23 this is just a stupid meme that I'd love it if it had died ages ago 14:59:33 I never thought I did, ais523. I'm actually quite pleased. ^__^ 14:59:37 ais523: it's actually meant to be body weigh 14:59:39 boily: when this channel is discussing esolangs, please discuss esolangs :_) 14:59:41 fsvo "meant" 14:59:52 elliott__: what's with the double underscore these days? 15:00:02 I'm not worried about impersonation because I can tell it's you in two lines 15:00:08 but I am a little confused 15:00:25 My language, SPAM/1 is about technologies that died ages ago ^__^ 15:00:25 -!- elliott__ has changed nick to elliott_________. 15:00:40 As for my coords: 32°47′00″N 79°56′00″W 15:03:10 And body weigh....under two bags of cement. 15:04:00 (using the hundredweight measurement) 15:06:10 that's far too accurate for me _not_ to paste into google maps. 15:06:28 it's only accurate to the nearest minute 15:06:42 hm good point 15:06:43 That's okay, I snatched it off of Wikipedia. 15:07:07 ais523: well it's pretty close to a college... 15:07:36 and a starbucks. 15:08:29 That's funny! 15:08:51 I'd thought Wikipedia would use coords close to the Harbour. 15:09:16 Wikipedia probably just rounded to the nearest minute 15:09:34 how much _is_ a minute anyway. 15:09:36 link for me to click on: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ResPlicate 15:09:50 oerjan: 1/(60*360) of the Earth's circumference 15:10:05 > 40000/(60*360) 15:10:07 1.8518518518518519 15:10:30 at any meridian, it equals one nautical mile exactly 15:10:37 for latitude, anyway. 15:10:41 yep 15:10:50 A man wanted to talk to me about Jesus, at the bus stop in front of the CS building. That was *so* un-Finnish. 15:10:53 Wikipedia says 1852m by definition 15:11:51 for a nautical mile 15:12:03 i'd say the harbour is on the border of plausible rounding range 15:12:25 In other words: close enough. 15:13:51 Strangeish to put the seconds in after rounding to minutes, but maybe it's convention. 15:13:57 ais523: it's not a typo. it's traditionnal to write “weigh”. 15:14:18 boily: are you actively trying to drive me from the channel agin? 15:14:20 *again 15:14:36 I think I figured out the goal for the Wiki. I have no intention of implementing SPAM. But I want to document it enoough that implementation is entirely possible. 15:14:41 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, even the Finnish, [...]" 15:14:51 ...enoough?....too many 'o's. 15:15:24 ais523: sorry, I was in a meeting, and I answered before seeing your other reply. I will esolang when esolanging is happening. 15:19:25 hm i'm wondering how close resPlicate can emulate something Fueue-like, if you make sure all blocks have "statically" known lengths and you avoid explicit swapping (but maybe it can be simulated, like in underload) 15:20:00 I'm still thinking about ResPlicate 15:20:58 it's the most minimalistic queue language we've had so far, i think 15:21:06 I have an idea of creating a tag system, using a dictionary of all necessary rule-pieces that gets copied around (as multiple copies) at regular intervals so that the rule-pieces can be extracted from it 15:21:23 and hmm, it sort-of competes with http://esolangs.org/wiki/DownRight (and cyclic tag) for the title of "minimalistic queue-language" 15:23:09 um it has no program/data separation, which i think is a big boost 15:23:37 The Norweigans ruled Britian under Cnut the Great and Sweyn Forkbeard...maybe the Finnish can rule the world under esolangs? 15:24:03 wasn't Knut danish? 15:24:11 He probably was. 15:24:23 Again, I was reading Wikipedia. 15:30:10 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:30:59 ...fake diamonds that are glued to eyes of plastic cows?....I noticed that just now. XD 15:33:04 Okay. I'm off. See everyone later. Have a good weekend 15:33:49 good spamming/1! 15:33:51 -!- Johnnie has quit (Quit: Page closed). 15:43:05 oerjan: program/data separation normally makes things easier rather than harder, but maybe not 15:44:13 ais523: yes of course, but it makes it less minimalistic. 15:44:56 I mean, my definition of "minimalistic" is "easy to implement in a range of ridiculously limited languages" 15:53:55 ...i think we shall have to agree to disagree :P 15:54:18 although that is of course useful too 16:04:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:06:03 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:06:31 -!- stalem has joined. 16:07:21 -!- olsner has joined. 16:11:00 when every idea of a language has been invented, reinvented, mangled, modified and regurgitated; what left is there to do? create a new paradigm? 16:13:02 Life's worthless, you mean to say? 16:13:31 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:13:41 idle on IRC 16:14:51 hm in a sense, yeah 16:15:30 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:17:01 stalem: creating new paradigms is what I really want to do 16:17:03 but it's hard 16:17:21 about the best I've managed in that direction is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload (which turned out to be pre-existing but niche) 16:18:13 we live in a world were even crab-based computing exists. it's hard to come up with something new. 16:18:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:18:59 ah yeah i've read that page multiple times. i bet it's a headache creating new paradigms, it's hard enough finding a good idea for a language. not to mention the amount of paradigms are getting to vast the possibilities must be getting drained 16:19:14 what? crab-based computer? like live crabs? 16:19:27 Yes 16:19:29 language innovation wasn't that easy ten years ago, either 16:19:30 stalem: http://techland.time.com/2012/04/18/crab-computing-the-future-of-computers-powered-by-crabs-wait-what/ 16:19:41 elliott_________: it's getting uneasier. 16:19:42 Wait, what? 16:19:47 "the future of computers" lol 16:20:13 shellokhin. long time no see! 16:20:35 boily: Yeah, lost my auto-join list and then never added this channel back :-) 16:20:35 an analog boid computer using crabs haha 16:21:09 boily: But, recently, got involved with some fun stuff involing a couple of norttis and a couple of esoteric languages, so got back here. 16:21:23 there are multiples norttis??? 16:21:34 Probably; can't be sure. 16:21:34 fungot: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 16:21:34 boily: are you looking for? fnord/ fnord/ fnord 16:38:41 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 16:43:02 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:53:33 anyone play with microcorruption.com ? 16:56:18 is there an english word similar to "want" or "need" that takes both a noun without preposition or a verb without "to"? or can that not exist because it would cause ambiguities between noun and verb? 16:57:31 b_jonas: hmm, I remember studying this sort of thing for grammartree 16:58:00 it needn't be a single word, it can be a phrase 16:58:08 "I want food" "I need food" works without preposition, but I think you need the "to" for verbs to make it "infinitive" 16:58:35 there are verbs like "should" that don't take "to" 16:58:44 true 16:58:52 newsham: yes, after a verbs like that you usually need either a to-infinitive or gerund 16:58:52 but they tend not to work with nouns 16:58:56 ais523: exactly 16:59:12 what does "can has" take? 16:59:31 "i can has catnip?" 16:59:37 “I want to food”. 16:59:38 it means "can I have" in cat talk 16:59:54 incidentally, verbs that appear in the portion of NetHack I converted to grammartree that take verbs without infinitives: can, had better, should, may 17:00:05 yes, but what form of verb, as in "I can has go out" or "I can has to go out" or "I can has going out" 17:00:17 and some verbs take participles, or possibly gerunds: stop, like, see 17:00:26 and "can has" is lolcat speak, not actual English 17:00:39 thus it doesn't obey normal grammar rules 17:00:43 ais523: yeah, it wouldn't suit me because of that, I was wondering 17:00:48 I'll check the lolcat bible 17:00:50 and in fact the grammar is mostly made up on the pot 17:00:52 *spot 17:00:59 no! 17:01:06 there is some sort of consistency 17:01:21 adb lolcat 17:01:23 see http://lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=How_to_speak_lolcat and similar 17:03:33 oh right! grammartree 17:03:40 -!- stalem has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:03:42 ais523: whatever happened to that 17:04:08 nooodl: we put it on hold because it was taking up all our time, we're planning to reintroduce it later but a bit at a time 17:04:21 like originally reserve it for the bits that benefit the most 17:05:07 -!- Bike has joined. 17:06:34 -!- aergus has joined. 17:13:34 http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7451e31a-8f90-11e3-9cb0-00144feab7de.html wack, yo 17:14:42 It requires registration. 17:14:49 That thing wants me to sign up to read the article 17:14:51 to be able to read 8 articles per month 17:15:24 and they don't seem to do the nice thing of sending the webpage with an overlay covering the actual content 17:15:29 ibm's thinking of selling their semiconductor division 17:15:32 you plebs. 17:16:24 oh 17:17:28 int-e: did you accidentaly lambdabot? 17:17:35 no I didn't. 17:18:50 it just lost its connection to the server (aka ping timeout) 17:24:03 Aaaah what should I have for dinner 17:24:07 Something quick to cook preferably 17:24:36 Also I accidentally learnt pandoc when I wanted to learn rust 17:24:39 http://runciman.hacksoc.org/~taneb/Fibs.pdf 17:24:56 common mistake 17:25:21 make a turkey. here's an instructional video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4FSew0vmUQ 17:26:16 british thanksgiving is coming up, right 17:26:36 I don't think Britain /has/ a Thankgiving 17:27:49 what a rude thing to say. 17:28:57 btw if anyone wants to critique the rust code in that pdf feel free to 17:31:19 Also I still don't know what to have for dinner 17:36:49 Taneb: recently I've mostly been combining some sort of prepackaged chicken with some sort of prepackaged salad with some sort of prepackaged carbohydrate 17:36:58 you can get a lot of variations out of that, and it's pretty fast 17:37:28 ais523, are the west midlands 300 years into the future? 17:37:36 yes 17:37:37 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:37:39 can confirm 17:43:24 Taneb: well a chicken salad sandwich is all three of those at once 17:43:35 so it's not massively difficult to achieve 17:43:43 but you can't live on /only/ those 17:46:21 man cannot live by chicken salad sandwiches alone 17:47:56 this private-use character renders funnily in my font: '' 17:48:25 in this font it looks like a solid circle 17:49:12 For me it's a bunch of waves approx. 12 characters wide, which looks kind-of odd in a terminal 17:50:50 nice 17:50:56 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:51:19 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:54:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:54:32 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:00:55 -!- aergus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:01:12 Here, it's a box. 18:02:36 Though if I open the logs in a browser, it looks like... well, it looks like a very small uppercase A, on top of which (as a diacritic) there's a thing that looks vaguely like a small lambda. 18:03:43 Zooming in reveals that the diacritic is instead a caret and a grave accent, stacked vertically, with the grave on top. 18:05:32 (Approximately ᴀ̂̀.) 18:06:47 that's a pretty nice letter 18:08:38 Is there a way in Unicode to say that "this following stack of combining characters should go vertically in this order, instead of being all on top of each other"? 18:11:55 Apparently there's a character called Combining Grapheme Joiner, which can be used to block reordering of combining characters during normalization ("For example, -- [as] one way to maintain distinction between differently ordered sequences of certain Hebrew accents and marks"), but that's a different thing. 18:15:22 And double diacritics (two-character ones, that is) will float over any diacritic marks of the participating two characters, but that's also different. 18:17:00 And you can put other diacritics on top of a double diacritic by following the double diacritic with the CGJ and a diacritic, but that's still not quite it. 18:32:24 back from lunch, and it diacriticise. 18:32:33 (it also winds and snows outside. stupid weather.) 18:32:39 ~metar CYUL 18:32:40 CYUL 071800Z 23021G28KT 15SM DRSN OVC035 M08/M13 A3011 RMK SC8 SLP197 18:32:52 ~metar EFHK 18:32:52 EFHK 071820Z 13010KT 0800 R04R/P1500U R15/0900N R22L/P1500U R04L/P1500U FG VV002 00/00 Q1002 NOSIG 18:33:03 Our FZFG has turned to plain old FG. 18:33:42 It's been a very foggy day, however. 18:34:05 you're also suffering from 0800 and chronic VV002, it seems. 18:34:24 There was a note in the news that there's been delays at EFHK. 18:34:32 (ground visibility: 800 m or 1/2 mi, vertical visibility 20') 18:34:46 20' sounds like not a much. 18:35:40 I'm checking the units. I'm currently doubting it. 18:36:40 200'. missed a magnitude there. 18:37:24 ~metar ESSA 18:37:24 ESSA 071820Z 13014KT 5000 -RA OVC006 02/01 Q0990 R01L/29//95 R08/29//95 R01R/29//95 TEMPO 4000 -RA 18:41:00 Plenty of light rain? 18:41:23 looks like so. 18:42:09 I wonder why there's two -RN's there 18:42:15 er, -RA 18:42:39 the first is a regular -RA, the second is a TEMPOrary change. 18:42:48 Ah 18:43:42 so you have -RA, and light -RA with 30% lest fat. 18:43:45 Do you call people who read METARs METARologists? 18:44:13 `? boily 18:44:14 boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken. 18:45:00 `learn boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. 18:45:01 I knew that. 18:46:30 A broterhood scheme, you say 18:46:42 with Pouti and Roujo. 18:47:34 ~metar BIRK 18:47:34 BIRK 071800Z 01011KT 9999 FEW020 02/M01 Q0978 18:48:02 BIRK? 18:48:12 oh. BIRK. 18:49:34 FireFly: visiting iceland? 18:49:47 Nope, just curious about the weather there 18:56:50 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:57:32 -!- tromp has joined. 19:01:27 TIL the Perl CGI module contains some kind of wacky (and not very good) DSL for outputting HTML code (rather, XHTML 1.0 only) 19:02:24 I updated my house's accounting system (a venerable Perl script) to output nicer-looking Bootstrap-y HTML 19:04:43 wtf 19:04:50 what's this fascination with Bootstrap by everyone? 19:05:05 what's so good in it 19:05:07 ? 19:05:18 it just makes a page look decent with very little effort 19:05:28 more specifically? 19:05:35 what do you mean by "look decent"? 19:05:43 more readable, more pleasing to the eye 19:05:57 is it like shiny stuff marketing asks for? 19:06:02 aren't you doing this page for yourself? 19:06:05 what crawled up your ass 19:06:08 s/shiny/shiny bling/ 19:06:13 U CARE AESTHETICS U NO REAL PROGRAMR 19:06:44 sorry, I don't mean to be so negative, there is probably something bootstrap does well, I just don't know it and I'd like to find out what it is 19:06:54 "make it nice" doesn't seem like something that would make you use it alone 19:07:15 b_jonas: I'm not a web designer so I can't describe specifically the aspects which make it good design, but I appreciate the result 19:07:25 definitely a few things like better fonts and good spacing are obvious 19:07:30 bootstrap has a 12-column grid. granted, nearly all starting bases have them, but bootstrap does some aggressive marketing. 19:07:48 I'm a programmer and so I delegate design things to professional designers, and importing Bootstrap is a no-effort way to do that for small personal projects 19:07:51 so why not do it? 19:08:05 do I need a super strong reason to use it? it's one line of HTML 19:08:10 ok, if that's all it's probably not something made for me 19:08:24 I like columns. 19:08:37 another specific thing it does that's useful in this context (accounting) is the thing where alternating rows of a table are shaded differently 19:08:43 and when you hover over a row it's shaded differently still 19:08:58 kmc: ok, now that's something specific I can understand 19:09:18 even if it's just like a few lines of css, but yes, it's good that a framework handles taht 19:09:54 yeah, the problem is probably that I don't like "frameworks" in general 19:09:59 well, if you can get something with a few fancy flashy gradients and buttons and stuff with little effort, I don't see why not 19:10:13 -!- w00tles has joined. 19:10:43 FireFly: because I don't want fancy gradients. I'm old school in typography and believe that text should be put on a uniform colored background only. 19:11:16 it doesn't do fancy flashy gradients 19:11:30 it's a very simple clean design 19:11:34 "flat design" is the fad now so it's even simpler 19:11:48 that's also why I don't understand people using transparent windows, esp transparent menus and transparent terminal windows, or terminal windows with backgrounds 19:11:53 http://getbootstrap.com/css/ http://getbootstrap.com/components/ 19:12:14 but I admit that I also don't like frameworks in general 19:13:42 Bootstrap also makes responsive layouts easy and you can be p. sure that it works everywhere without testing it everywhere yourself. 19:14:07 ion: I like columns. 19:14:53 boily: Me too, except when using a very narrow display. 19:15:33 b_jonas: I do the minimal terminals, minimal WM thing too 19:15:39 b_jonas: however the default unstyled HTML isn't "minimal" 19:15:46 it uses a fucking serif font 19:15:55 in many respects bootstrap'd HTML looks simpler and cleaner 19:16:04 it's not about fancy gradients and impressing marketing 19:16:33 kmc: as for that, I do like serif fonts, but I decide about that in my browser settings. 19:16:37 if "design" is such a tainted word to your ultra programmer sensibilities then call it "information presentation engineering" or whatever 19:16:46 imho, it's very hard to achieve a nice formatting with serif fonts on a retro-lit display. 19:17:09 anyway i got to go 19:17:11 sometimes I make my browser forcibly override fonts in all html to a good serif font instead of letting browsers choose, but then I usually turn it back eventually except for some bad websites 19:17:30 b_jonas: what are your favourite serif fonts? 19:17:47 boily: maybe it is if you're using small font sizes. I prefer large sizes 19:18:43 boily: sadly I don't really have any font I'm completely satisfied with. I would eventually like to design my own fonts, in like the next few decades, but for now I only have a good bitmap terminal font I've drawn. 19:19:02 in browser I usually use either bitstream vera serif or times 19:19:24 I dislike times. I'm more of a palatino guy. 19:20:18 a nice example of serifed text → http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116443/new-york-citys-french-dual-language-programs-are-mostly-pointless 19:20:32 (they use ‘Publico Text’) 19:20:53 hmm, actually I think I do currently have the font forced on all websites in this browser 19:33:59 That reminds me, I haven't read ILT in a long time 19:34:19 http://ilovetypography.com/ that is 19:40:45 boily: 'Thanks, boily! Thoily!' reads much better than 'Thanks User:Boily, Thoily!'. Here's one case where policy gets in the way of style. almost makes me want to delinkify it. 19:41:49 quintopia: pipe-link it 19:42:02 and is that like a rello? 19:42:50 `thanks b_jonas 19:42:50 Thanks, b_jonas. Thonas. 19:42:59 b_jonas: we have bots for everything! 19:43:35 -!- evalj has joined. 19:44:10 `relcome evalj 19:44:11 ​evalj: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:45:16 not enough colors 19:45:42 -!- conehead has joined. 19:48:06 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 19:53:26 b_jonas: he did. then ais523 un-pipelinked due to wiki policy. 19:54:27 is it just me or did that last relcome say 'Forcthe' 19:54:41 quintopia: it is you. fnord. 19:55:03 oh the extra c disappeared when you spoke 19:55:13 temprary rendering error 19:55:46 boily: have you invented yucca yet? 19:55:52 boily: we're all waiting 19:56:47 not yet, not yet. as I said some time ago, I need to have a “fit of a stroke” of inspiration. 19:56:57 ] consonants =: a.{~,66 98+/I.#:31324125 19:56:58 b_jonas: |ok 19:57:18 and once again I `relcomed a bot. 19:57:45 evalj has no problems with that 19:57:48 quintopia: in fact, there was a spark the other day when we were discussing undecideble sequences. 19:57:51 evalj, ping: relcome 19:57:52 b_jonas, pong: relcome 19:57:55 boily: you can't just wait for inspiration to smite you. you have to be thinking about esolangs in EVERY SPARE MOMENT 19:58:22 boily: i wasn't there. what was said? 19:58:22 quintopia: I like the feeling of beeing smitten. I stalk orc priests and hellwings. 19:58:39 quintopia: something about... eeeeh... I'm kinda having a blank here. 19:58:47 it's related to the halting problem. 20:00:13 boily: 'stalking orc priests' is the metaphorical equivalent of thinking about esolangs ALL THE TIME 20:00:56 ] thanks=: 3 :'''Thanks, '',y,''. Th'',''.'',~y}.~i.&0 y e.consonants' 20:00:56 b_jonas: |ok 20:01:07 quintopia: trouvé! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_correspondence_problem 20:01:12 ] thanks 'boily' 20:01:12 b_jonas: Thanks, boily. Thoily. 20:01:36 ] thanks 'Firefly' 20:01:37 b_jonas: Thanks, Firefly. Thirefly. 20:01:51 what should this do for names like 'kmc' though? 20:01:56 ] thanks 'aaaaa something with a vowel' 20:01:56 boily: |value error: thanks 20:01:56 boily: | thanks'aaaaa something with a vowel' 20:01:59 ] thanks 'kmc' 20:02:00 FireFly: |value error: thanks 20:02:00 FireFly: | thanks'kmc' 20:02:17 `cat bin/thanks 20:02:17 ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_."; 20:02:44 boily: try 'evalj load: b_jonas,' or something first. stupid bot defaults to separate states per nick. 20:02:46 quintopia: I'm having ideas. something MALBOLGIAN. 20:02:47 evalj, pwd: 20:02:47 b_jonas, working session is b_jonas,#esoteric 20:03:02 evalj cd: , 20:03:02 b_jonas, changed to ,#esoteric 20:03:03 evalj load: b_jonas 20:03:03 boily, copied boily,#esoteric from boily,b_jonas 20:03:09 ] thanks 'aaaaa something with a vowel' 20:03:09 boily: |value error: thanks 20:03:09 boily: | thanks'aaaaa something with a vowel' 20:03:11 boily: no, the comma is needed 20:03:17 evalj load: b_jonas, 20:03:18 b_jonas: say wut? 20:03:18 b_jonas, copied ,#esoteric from b_jonas,#esoteric 20:03:24 evalj load: b_jonas, 20:03:24 boily, copied boily,#esoteric from b_jonas,#esoteric 20:03:27 ] thanks 'aaaaa something with a vowel' 20:03:27 boily: Thanks, aaaaa something with a vowel. Thaaaaa something with a vowel. 20:03:45 boily: i am scared 20:04:00 boily: whatever it is, we should be able to talk to metasepia in it 20:04:03 ] thanks 'kmc' 20:04:04 b_jonas: Thanks, kmc. Th. 20:04:08 ] thanks 'evalj' 20:04:09 b_jonas: Thanks, evalj. Thevalj. 20:04:31 I think 'Thevalj.' is right. Isn't that sort of how pig latin works? 20:04:38 I'm not good in these English language games 20:04:48 quintopia: of course. I'd like to have it understand aubergine also. 20:05:13 hmm, maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_Game is more relevant than pig latin? 20:07:28 I think pig latin cuts up and reorders stuff 20:08:28 I still don't know what it should give for a nick with only consonants 20:08:32 like kmc 20:09:16 `thanks kmc 20:09:17 Thanks, kmc. Tmc. 20:09:26 b_jonas: ↑ that's one possible solution. 20:09:29 hmm, ok 20:09:52 boily: post seems pretty cool 20:10:38 boily: it should be WrItTeN In iN aUbErFGiNe 20:10:58 agh stupid lag echoing backspaces instead of doing them 20:11:31 you squished an ERF in my aubergine. 20:12:46 gihvjck 20:12:58 imagine it the way it looked to me before udp mangled it 20:14:59 spelling guterals won't help you there, you Infamous Squisher. 20:15:54 but I think I'm still going to go a step further than that. something more... arduous. tortuous. painful, like a stubbed toe on a rabid stove. 20:16:06 hmm 20:16:10 it's been done 20:16:22 `thanks strong 20:16:23 Thanks, strong. Thong. 20:16:41 quintopia: beuh. 20:17:03 quintopia: make something that is a JOY to program in! even more than aubergine! 20:18:07 oh. so, pain inducing, but more like a quality hot sauce where you put your tongue on fire and your brains on dopamines? 20:19:58 (btw, is there yucca flavoured hot sauce out there? I'd buy a bottle of that if thausible.) 20:22:27 `thanks Hanks 20:22:28 Thanks, Hanks. Thanks. 20:23:59 boily: http://honest-food.net/2011/06/15/eating-yucca-flowers/ there's this at least. your language should be like eating fried flowers with hot sauce 20:24:22 oh. 20:24:28 you are tempting me. 20:24:37 quintopia: fire flowers? as in super mario ones? 20:24:57 oens that make you powerful 20:25:25 sadly, flowers tend not to shoot fire in real life 20:25:33 there are plants with projectile weapons, though 20:26:24 ais523: have you broken resplicate yet. we're all waiting :P 20:27:01 quintopia: no, I need to spend overnight I think 20:27:07 I can't concentrate when I have Internet access 20:27:12 this is why most of my BF Jousting is done offline 20:27:14 for instance 20:27:28 :D i understand 20:28:01 * quintopia EMPs the area around ais523 20:28:21 it's not the flowers that shoot fire 20:28:32 it's super mario that shoots fire after he takes a fire flower 20:30:32 quintopia: careful not to destroy my laptop 20:30:48 b_jonas: the flower itself shoots fire in Smash Bros. 20:31:27 ais523: i focused on isp hubs and cell towers 20:31:40 ais523: hmm 20:31:50 you can ignore the cell towers, I don't have any sort of cellular equipment 20:32:00 because then I wouldn't be able to concentrate /ever/ :-) 20:32:56 well, mario games also have flower-like enemies that duck in and out of pipes, some of which shoot flowers, but I don't know what those are called 20:33:30 i used to know their names 20:34:00 gb super mario 2 has cannons instead of flowers only I think 20:34:03 I'm not sure 20:34:13 no wait 20:34:21 the cannons don't duck in and out of pipes 20:34:23 I dunno 20:34:32 http://www.mariowiki.com/Piranha_Plant ? 20:34:43 b_jonas: piranha plants I think 20:35:03 also, the canons duck in and out of pipes on super mario land /1/ 20:35:08 piranha plant or packun flower 20:35:16 /2/ has piranha plants, like in the NES and SNES games 20:35:25 and the fire shooters are venus firetraps 20:35:27 err, didn't mean to italicise the2 20:35:31 * 2 20:35:46 actually from that wiki http://www.mariowiki.com/Venus_Fire_Trap is the variant that shoots fire 20:36:22 hurray we are all good at googling 20:36:31 hey, I'm doing this from memory 20:36:34 but what's the black cat-head-like thing in gb super mario 1 that ducks from pipes and shoots horizontally moving bullets? 20:36:47 as I said, learning about computer games I've never played is one of my hobbies 20:36:49 I didn't google, I just clicked on a link from the Piranha Plant article 20:36:52 (also, I have actually played SML1 and 2) 20:36:58 (and completed both of them) 20:37:02 I have played both, but sml2 much more 20:37:24 I haven't completed sml2, but I've done all but the wario level 20:37:30 the wario level turns out to be too difficult to me 20:37:35 turned 20:37:40 it's an order of magnitude harder than anything else in the game 20:37:40 * quintopia aims at birdo at ais523. "beat super mario sunshine or you get the egg!" 20:37:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:38:04 b_jonas: for quite a lot of it, memorization helps 20:38:21 I also recommend grinding lives (or coins to buy lives) so that you don't have to go and refight all the bosses when you screw up 20:38:27 the reason why sml2 is easy is that you get lots of retries because it's really easy to get lots of extra lives 20:38:36 exactly 20:38:51 I continuously had over 90 lives when playing 20:38:59 but the wario castle is long 20:39:09 yes, long and no checkpoints 20:39:16 and the first room is the second-hardest room in the castle 20:39:28 well that's nice of them 20:39:31 I don't want to finish it anymore, but I would like to finish commander keen 2 20:39:36 yeah, hard room first helps 20:39:38 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:39:43 the hardest room is like halfway through 20:39:57 I've finished all other commander keen games (on easy level at least), 20:40:02 but I'm stuck in ck2 20:40:05 no wait 20:40:08 it's ck3 I'm stuck in 20:40:12 I've done ck2 20:40:18 sorry for the confusino 20:40:19 time to wipe and clean and nuke and polish and apply febreeze to my machine. 20:40:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NUCULAR CHICKEN!). 20:40:42 gah, that sentence is leaving me with cognitive dissonance 20:40:52 and yeah, I could finish those too only because of infinite lives you get by saving after each level 20:40:56 because half of it is ambiguous, and the other half gives mixed signals as to how to interpret it 20:41:04 and, in the second series, in the middle of levels too 20:41:34 I find ck5 the easiest by far 20:41:47 no wait 20:41:57 yes, ck5 20:42:00 I always mix them up 20:42:06 I don't know much about the commander keen series 20:42:53 ais523: what you should know is that ck1..3 is completely different from ck4..6. 20:43:09 OK, this is not very much information because I don't know much about /either/ series 20:43:40 ck1..3 has more different (and imo more difficult) controls (reacts slower, sort of like prince of persia), different graphics (smaller tiles), different rules (can't save during levels), different level design 20:44:51 it's also older and targets earlier computers, so the graphics isn't as good (simpler tiles, horizontally scrolls only in multiplies of 8 pixels so it works on EGA or something, which makes it sometimes jerky). 20:44:52 like, I don't even know what genre this is 20:46:24 ais523: it's a 2D platformer where you control a single superhero, the young (8 year old or so) Commander Keen, who dies from a single hit but has a pistol he can use to kill or stun most enemies (limited number of shots in ck1..3) 20:46:40 and a pogo he can use to jump bigger but more difficult to control than normal jumps 20:46:52 hmm right 20:46:53 http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/ is the wiki 20:47:21 this doesn't really sound like the sort of game I enjoy 20:47:23 also, ck4..6 has lots of secret areas, mostly invisible passages inside walls, but sometimes just places that are hard to reach 20:47:40 wow i'm playing commander keen as we speak 20:47:45 what the heck 20:47:48 I quite enjoy ck4..6, enjoy ck1..3 somewhat less but now I'd like to complete it 20:48:01 nooodl: high five 20:48:12 nooodl: the important question is, is it in {1..3} or {4..6}? 20:48:16 ck5 20:48:25 (NB. I've never played any CK game either) 20:48:56 i'm doing speedruns. very fun 20:49:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keen3Gameplay.png nice colour palette 20:50:04 i have to do a full 100% run at some point. ck5 speedrunning is aaaactive, ish, but everyone skips through the game with a glitch, even though the levels are very fun 20:50:46 nooodl: by 100% run, you mean no death and no save? 20:50:56 i mean beat all the levels 20:50:58 ah 20:51:03 that's easier 20:51:04 b_jonas: 100% means you achieve all the goals of the game 20:51:15 although, for "beat all the levels", the normal terms are either "all levels" or "warpless" 20:51:25 do you want to reach all the secret places in levels and the secret level and all the hidden items too, even the really difficult to get extra lives? 20:51:26 warpless means you don't skip levels, all levels means you do all of them 20:51:36 the difference mostly being when you have a choice of which level to take 20:51:39 It looks to be a standard PC color palette, I think 20:51:42 in warpless, you can pick either of them 20:51:49 in all levels, you do one, then go back and do the other 20:51:49 "warpless" and "all levels" differ one level in keen 5 20:51:50 ais523: yes, some commander keen games have optional levels or choices between levels 20:51:51 (the secret level) 20:52:14 I try to go for all levels except the secret level, that's how I did ck{1,3,4,5,6} I think 20:52:31 but I definitely cannot reach all the hidden places in all levels 20:52:46 I want all levels because that's how I get the most fun from the game 21:04:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 21:07:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:07:50 -!- yubisaylozada has joined. 21:08:12 -!- augur has joined. 21:12:42 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:12:42 -!- spiette has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:12:54 -!- yubisaylozada1 has joined. 21:13:59 -!- yubisaylozada has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:16:21 -!- boilyphone has joined. 21:16:49 Wiping the machine. 21:18:00 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:20:50 -!- yubisaylozada has joined. 21:22:28 -!- yubisaylozada1 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:22:35 quien habla en espaol 21:22:42 `bienvenido yubisaylozada 21:22:43 yubisaylozada: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 21:23:20 `run ls bin/tervetuloa 21:23:21 ls: cannot access bin/tervetuloa: No such file or directory 21:23:36 I think it's a factoid 21:23:38 fizzie, ion: ☝ 21:23:40 wisdom, I mean 21:23:43 `? tervetuloa 21:23:44 tervetuloa: ask shachaf 21:23:47 ;-) 21:23:48 B| 21:23:49 eh. good enough 21:24:10 does FireFly speak Finnish maybe 21:24:15 'fraid not 21:24:31 Apart from 'ei saa peittä' 21:24:49 That should be "peittää". 21:25:01 hi fizzie 21:25:05 hizzie 21:25:16 "hizzie" sounds like some sort of a rap thing. 21:25:19 yes 21:26:07 fizzie: ah. 21:26:36 fungotizzle 21:26:36 kmc: s/ it's/ its/ 21:26:56 -!- augur has joined. 21:27:13 wow thanks a lot fungot 21:27:13 shachaf: but with " a" rant... it makes it harder for programs written in scheme 21:27:36 :) 21:28:25 I'm not sure whether yubisaylozada understands english, or is just smiling and nodding along... 21:30:01 :) 21:30:16 FireFly: you might say the same about fungot 21:30:17 shachaf: try searching for " library procedure", on the same lines 21:30:19 fungot: :) 21:30:19 kmc: apparently it's also from greek platypous, but i'm confused about continuations being used in so many ways. for example, 21:30:30 i was going to suggest we should mention not speaking spanish in the welcome but... there it is 21:30:39 yeah somebody added that 21:30:44 somebody++ 21:30:56 “Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja {deployment}:n kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric irc.dal.net:ssä.)” Help, what’s deployment in Finnish? 21:31:42 that bienvenido message has no color 21:32:01 shachaf: good point 21:32:05 käyttöönotto? 21:32:08 `run bienvenido b_jonas | rainwords 21:32:09 ​b_jonas: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: 21:32:18 huh 21:32:28 thanks 21:32:45 kmc: length limit? 21:32:46 ​b_jonas: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: 21:32:46 hey how do i set my locale 21:32:47 (16:56:23) kmc: huh 21:32:54 seeing question marks in irc is sad 21:32:56 -!- boilyphone has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )). 21:33:33 it's only fun when they speak in spanish :/ 21:33:44 general they, here 21:33:50 oh nevermind i found a wiki entry 21:34:36 is that message in spanish or obfuscated spanish btw? it seems like it has too many long words. 21:34:37 typeof(*p) *elliott_________ = (typeof(*p)*__force )ACCESS_ONCE(p); 21:35:01 b_jonas: it's the consensus between Google Translate and my half remembered high school spanish knowledge 21:35:05 plus some edits by others 21:35:10 ah! 21:35:23 so you don't actually have spanish speakers here? 21:35:45 I don't think we have any regulars who are fluent spanish speakers... but I'm not sure 21:36:01 isn't that what "la mayoria de nosotros no hablamos espanol" means 21:36:02 mmkay 21:36:52 ion: what does the ":n" mean 21:37:38 `learn welcome.fi Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.) 21:37:40 I knew that. 21:38:11 shachaf: It’s the inflection equivalent to “of ___”. 21:38:12 is that message in finnish or obfuscated finnish btw? it seems like it has too many long words. 21:38:36 ion: well, i specifically wondered about the ':' 21:38:37 Is there a difference? 21:39:05 ;) 21:39:07 shachaf: It’s how you attach an inflection into something that can’t be inflected. 21:39:38 3 – kolme – three 21:39:46 3:n – kolmen – of three / three’s 21:40:59 ah 21:41:37 kolme yksin 21:41:38 IBM:n – IBM’s 21:42:03 IBM:lle – for IBM 21:42:15 why the fuck is there a keyboard layout called 'unicode'... 21:44:10 you literally use a colon for that in finnish? weird/cool 21:44:17 fizzie: You should improve my translation, esp. for “deployment”, kthx 21:45:06 If you ever see someone write “IBM:s” in English shklee’s probably a native Finn. 21:45:08 kmc: Hungarian uses a hyphen for that (and removes the period from before it if the word before ends in a period) 21:45:25 The colon+suffix thing gets used wrong in many ways. 21:45:31 @tell Sgeo you might be interested in https://air.mozilla.org/incremental-parallelization-of-dynamic-languages/ 21:45:32 Consider it noted. 21:45:34 i haven't watched it yet 21:45:49 as for the colon, someone has suggested to use a dot 21:45:54 erase that 21:46:10 E.g. it's "IBM:n" because that's read letter by letter, but "OPECin" because that's read as a word. 21:46:37 paamayim nekudotayim 21:46:44 as for the colon, someone has suggested to use a middle dot as a new punctuation mark in Hungarian to separate the subject (and words attached to that) from the predicate (and words attached from that) in ambiguous sentences, 21:46:56 but I think we should use the colon for that actually. 21:47:01 Swedish also uses : for ordinals (1:a, 2:a, 3:e for 1st, 2nd, 3rd) 21:47:08 ;-) 21:47:09 fizzie: IBM:n and OPECin are correct usage or they're the wrong usage you object to? 21:47:11 (this one doesn't make sense in English, where that kind of ambiguity doesn't come up) 21:47:33 kmc: They're both correct. But different, obviously, since the other doesn't have a colon. 21:48:22 ion: I can't really figure out a better word for deployment. 21:48:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sigh). 21:48:57 as for abuse, the blogs http://www.apostropheabuse.com/ and http://www.apostrophecatastrophes.com/ have lots of examples where apostrophe is used in English to attach plural "s" to words 21:49:15 often to abbreviations 21:50:06 -!- Bike has joined. 21:50:22 `bienvenido 21:50:23 ​¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 21:50:27 `run sed -re 's/\.es\>/.fi/g' ​#!/usr/bin/perl -w \ if (defined($_=shift)) { s/ *$//; s/ +/ @ /g; exec "bin/@", $_ . " ? welcome.fi"; } else { exec "bin/?", "welcome.fi"; } 21:50:37 i can feel the american sloughing off me 21:50:46 `run sed -re 's/\.es\>/.fi/g' bin/tervetuloa && chmod 755 bin/tervetuloa 21:50:48 No output. 21:51:08 `tervetuloa Adolf 21:51:09 Adolf: welcome.fi Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.) 21:51:14 uh 21:51:27 um 21:51:37 `? bonjour 21:51:38 bonjour? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:51:41 s/welcome.fi // from taht output 21:51:56 It's in the wisdom file. 21:51:57 `sed -i -re 's/^welcome\.fi //' wisdom/welcome.fi 21:51:58 Usage: sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of script- 21:52:00 Which is weird. 21:52:15 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:52:23 `run sed -i -re 's/^welcome\.fi //' wisdom/welcome.fi 21:52:25 No output. 21:52:31 `tervetuloa Adolf 21:52:32 Adolf: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.) 21:52:52 better 21:53:01 next up relvetuloa 21:53:16 Rainbow is sateenkaari in Finnish hth 21:53:24 shachaf: um... does that make sense in finnish? 21:53:33 Oh, it's not weird, it's just the way `learn has always worked. 21:53:34 selvetuloa 21:54:12 tervekaari. 21:54:26 sateentuloa 21:54:37 `words --finnish 12 21:54:38 kaivaihtuvilta syrjistisemme venemienollisemmaksen finimittumalta hulluvinänsä lyömaaliseen hakeutuvinansa rastani raan keskuumanansa naisempientaisi naisemmalla 21:54:50 rastani 21:55:03 "kaivaihtuvilta" is borderline okay. 21:55:19 "from the probably-changing" or some such. 21:55:26 oooh! is that some sort of stochastic model random generation? 21:55:35 It's character... trigrams? 21:55:38 I think it's trigrams. 21:55:49 I made one of those once, a bit more complicated, 21:56:04 And then some separate word length model, I think. 21:56:07 what other languages does `words know? 21:56:11 `words --help 21:56:12 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 21:56:16 `words --list 21:56:17 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 21:56:24 It barely fits in the output. 21:56:32 `words --canadian-english-insane 21:56:33 mality 21:56:46 Isn’t that redundant? 21:56:55 It can interpolate between two, which is I guess fancy. 21:57:01 `words --finnish --swedish 5 21:57:02 gruosiatriken sänsä tahandeintamilja isras firman 21:57:11 -!- yubisaylozada has left. 21:57:18 taught it the list of ~3300 Hungarian town names and made it generate a mix of random town names and real town names so you have to guess, 21:57:19 `words --eng-1M 12 21:57:20 defica ced tigl magnant spagne bellus dellslotoet remark coversigna inramound congd trailch 21:57:21 Quite often the interpolation sticks to one of the models, unsurprisingly. 21:57:27 english is such a beautiful language 21:57:34 `words --german 12 21:57:35 kmc: You're such a magnant guy. 21:57:35 tandenentalthar erung droismenais pannell tubenbau kelligio verrichtetermelz stavent argoverspretelloh infachgeselbuch importfreism far 21:57:40 often it gave obviously fake gibberish, but it also gave good fakes 21:57:51 `words --manx 12 21:57:52 corpoin aesa cad hagh cummalreas per glooagey grein cleayreyda anchoobalan aasaayn yn-least-chei 21:57:57 `words --canadian-english-insane --esolangs 12 21:57:58 thulg stant [] snusplia pan intymphiloquiet thingy tage cal perpropoma () purphlor 21:58:06 The esolang dataset is my favourite. 21:58:15 (It's esolang names from the wiki.) 21:58:20 `words --swedish --esolangs 20 21:58:21 suicerylan ist orkar threa surn carant tmmlpte um-32 ransion2 numstränktif thundskatterwangiva iotets inveyor pyrels ortfal drivar flykt keminius cirke pointinan 21:58:30 the best fake it generated is Nemes, which is actually the Hungarian name for a town in Romania, so it wasn't in the input dataset 21:58:40 thundskatterwangiva, eh? 21:58:51 `words --english --esolangs 20 21:58:52 Unknown option: english 21:59:07 `words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 21:59:08 frak verix paxo bita mar etruelativenu bf-pda rssble splayne subskia pumpt mer inhydr mkblnk dobin ite pil dogranscrips pau bran 21:59:13 my favourite from its output is Rúgonya though 21:59:17 dogranscrips! 21:59:41 i read a story today that involved a doge and the meme fucked me up 21:59:53 `run for w in $(words --english --esolangs 20); do echo -n "${w}coin "; done 21:59:54 Unknown option: english 21:59:59 `run for w in $(words --eng-1M --esolangs 20); do echo -n "${w}coin "; done 22:00:00 I also tried to teach it to generate ordinary Hungarian text, but there the output is much more gibberish 22:00:01 fercoin mencoin notcoin ovecoin hallycoin worlcoin tolmbacoin paxcoin abclarecoin geomegaplcoin whencoin valuscoin standfoocoin hattancoin wielcoin .yachiewcoin 0.75coin rssomskjcoin sentowcoin expenbecoin 22:00:18 mencoin? isn't that just bitcoin? zing 22:00:22 notcoin 22:00:22 Geomegaplcoins could be such a thing. 22:00:47 `run echo 'for w in $(words --eng-1M --esolangs 20); do echo -n "${w}coin "; done' > bin/coins && chmod +x bin/coins 22:00:47 Actually, a majority of them sound like plausible cryptocurrencies. 22:00:48 No output. 22:00:50 `coins 22:00:51 devlcoin 1cnigmantcoin braincoin orthcoin gorgicoin maginacoin pnruncoin crtoncoin koticurcoin verstanfpacoin full+coin lytejudecoin andypacoin starmocoin puzzellcoin hosphacoin wlucoin fityrdahlecoin anycoin chapycoin 22:01:08 `coins 22:01:10 netweeumonodycoin 0.9602coin hanoldbcoin gasoignimalcoin monterwacoin tweensidcoin suellowfoocoin forcoin dzzzcoin gotoncoin hobbacoin kroecoin obarandcoin verationcoin probelcoin nuitabllcoin ctorcoin sessprocoin .boxcoin aaromancoin 22:01:25 It keeps working. 22:01:30 `run words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re 's/\>/coin/g' 22:01:32 incincoin chocoin ovecoin iihromodercoin insoncoin wertcoin ersioneranacoin divzcoin paxicoin adjustcoin vcoin rentacoin brillecoin beincoin qwertainspathogelycoin fannacoin vercoin brashmencoin coniacoin tyvercoin 22:01:42 ion: much better 22:01:59 `run echo 'words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re '"'"'s/\>/coin/g'"'"'' > bin/coins 22:02:01 No output. 22:02:03 `coins 22:02:05 bentacoin platorylancoin homoucoin rcepticoin pithcoin timissecoin guadecoin penfernoncoin pongcoin tsedumbcoin glycoin tgcoin netwocoin cratumcoin 2dcoin-refcoin colnicoin nabcoin mcoin-codcoin parecoin modecoin 22:02:14 mcoin-codcoin 22:02:55 `espletive coin 22:03:15 `espletive 22:03:16 infuck 22:03:25 No output. 22:03:50 `run espletive | sed -e 's/fuck/coin/' # workaround 22:03:51 memcoin 22:04:05 Good enough 22:04:25 `espletive 20 22:04:30 2050706 22:06:22 `run words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 22:06:23 woudrycoin quoiacoin cardcoin uniniftysnaicoin revergingcoin con-of-unbabtcoin ><>coin heicoin quotcoin morecoin entcoin perlincoin monozcand.nexcoin msgacoin cycliptcoin cufcoin workcoin braincncoin oversecoin leszecoin 22:07:26 `run printf '%s\n' 'words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re '\''s/( |$)/coin\1/g'\' | tee bin/coins 22:07:28 words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 22:07:39 `coins 22:07:41 cutanginencoin befuckencoin aldinguncoin zenocoin doniacoin gloversecoin genorcoin infiniscoin vertcoin ooooocoin parcoin poglyoncoin anocoin presonalcoin checoin leurcoin retcoin brakillicoin rainecoin whencoin 22:07:56 Befuckencoins. 22:08:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:08:19 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:08:48 oerjan: Got any zenocoins on you? 22:09:23 whencoin? 22:09:30 Doesn't seem like a safe investment to me 22:09:46 yeah, personally i'm going for thisisascamdontuseitcoin 22:09:47 fizzie: i somehow never manage to finish getting any 22:10:08 Bike: make that scamcoin for short 22:10:18 scamcoin is totally distinct! 22:10:32 ok, scamcoin1.1 then 22:22:58 -!- FreeFull has joined. 22:24:48 quintopia: found a "useful" resplicate pattern 22:25:28 which alleviates most of my doubts that it is TC 22:26:23 what is that pattern? 22:27:11 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 0 ? n 1 ...any n integers... 22:27:54 it's self-producing and allows embedding any data 22:28:13 hmm, that reminds me 22:28:44 does the esolang wiki have entries for the three simple automata Smullyan has defined in his books? 22:28:57 if not, maybe I should write about them 22:29:01 i don't recall 22:29:16 also i don't know smullyan's automata 22:29:24 yes, that's why I should write about them 22:29:58 hm i may vaguely recall someone writing something related on the wiki 22:30:30 hm no hits for "smullyan" 22:31:44 two of them are defined in the book ''The Lady or the Tiger'', one in ''The Riddle of Scheherazade''. 22:32:19 the three are very simlar, they're functions from digit strings to other digit strings, 22:32:51 partial functions actually, with very simple rules, and often applied repeatedly with the question being whether it ever reaches a digit string not in the domain 22:33:42 mhm 22:34:36 the other questions are finding a quine (there is at least one for each automaton) 22:35:40 I should write them up on the wiki later 22:36:44 I'm reminded to this by this Resplicate 22:40:26 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:37 -!- conehead has joined. 22:58:31 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:59:05 -!- augur has joined. 23:03:24 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:08:23 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 23:35:23 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:37:21 `? welcome.fi 23:37:22 Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: . (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric palvelimella irc.dal.net.) 23:39:00 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:39:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:43:42 -!- Zuu has joined. 23:44:12 -!- Zuu has left. 23:54:34 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 2014-02-08: 00:06:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:06:41 -!- aergus has joined. 00:06:42 -!- conehead_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:06:55 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:10:41 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:10:50 -!- conehead__ has joined. 00:21:38 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:29:09 Sgeo: are you Sgeoing #haskell 00:30:07 what does that mean 00:30:11 fungot: do you Sgeo? 00:30:12 kmc: but flaming people for poor spelling grammar also bad. the only other language i can speak english, you make macro writers list all the classes? 00:30:20 `coins 00:30:22 byyocoin attscoin spachellcoin tectdiscoin cccxxicoin imperdecoin velycoin bitumcoin agacoin waibcoin antcoin auracoin regxcoin unpliamenteuroschcoin shakrusolcoin rhotocoin aniccoin mibbcoin devilcoin ificidicacicoin 00:30:38 `coins 00:30:41 houcoin affmancoin 5-logcoin lolcoin ozonecoin nonotcoin backcoin sendsoncoin eningcoin ethcoin bracoin bijcoin beasepcoin mdpncoin fromageddendstuckcoin avrllercoin kickcoin bayfelycoin broofcoin longiorsestantcoin 00:31:04 `run wc -l /usr/share/dict/words 00:31:05 wc: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory 00:31:07 :/ 00:31:59 `ls /usr/share/dict 00:32:00 No output. 00:34:05 kmc: did you know you can apt-get install wamerican-insane to get a big words list 00:34:46 preschoolercoin shittycoin illegalcoin brassierecoin stupefyingcoin profanitycoin liquorcoin aggravationcoin ragcoin slaphappiercoin metamorphiccoin execrablecoin flabbergastcoin 00:35:13 chuckholecoin confidentialcoin kismetcoin matinéecoin numeracycoin ignorancecoin linoleumcoin 00:35:54 shachaf: yes 00:36:12 unpliamenteuroschcoin 00:41:40 diff /usr/share/dict/foo{-insane,} | sed -nre 's/^< (.*)/\1coin/p' 00:43:37 -!- aergus has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:43:59 Does HackEgo have any dict files? 00:44:14 b_jonas: i have one of smullyan's books where he defines one of those languages. i should put it on the wiki 00:45:24 oerjan: that's a pretty cool pattern, but in order to get a tag system, we need it to arrive at the front of the queue in the right orientation. is that easy? 00:46:28 % diff /usr/share/dict/american-english{-insane,} | sed -nre 's/^< (.*)/\1coin/p' | shuf | head -n 20 | xargs -d'\n' 00:46:30 breathalyzescoin erythrenecoin illimitability'scoin intercirculationcoin Lepismatidaecoin Pleurotomaria'scoin Tachyglossidaecoin sheepfacednesscoin Kapwepwe'scoin micturatedcoin indeterminationscoin brachycephalism'scoin scarpettocoin furoscoin coadministrationscoin oxheadscoin flemitcoin sphenoturbinalcoin Bacocoin Celisse'scoin 00:47:15 The first Google result: To view the definition of sphenoturbinal[1], activate your Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary FREE TRIAL now! 00:47:16 egrep '^[a-z]*[a-rt-z]$' 00:47:28 micturatedcoin nice 00:47:32 Gee, i surely will do that instead of reading it directly from the second Google result. 00:48:26 quintopia: what do you mean by right orientation? 00:48:34 and what does that regex do exactly? 00:48:35 Tachyglossidaecoin. 00:48:55 ion: oh, xargs -d'\n' is really handy! thanks 00:49:29 so handy that one might wonder why it's not the default 00:49:33 kmc: Also: xargs -a <(some command) -d'\n' foo when you don’t want to break foo’s stdin. 00:49:45 sulphurcoin aristocracycoin steamiestcoin exploitcoin bloatedcoin allegorycoin vicaragecoin dullestcoin 00:50:15 speaking of words and letters and shit, https://twitter.com/anagramatron 00:51:20 quintopia: i'd imagine the actual structure of the whole queue to consist of these patterns, except for a few "active" blocks. 00:51:49 and those blocks would be responsible for synchronizing at their ends, naturally. 00:52:20 unless they want to activate the data inside one of these patterns, in which case they'd delete the prefix and possibly more. 00:52:24 oerjan: i'll have to study it to see what it does. right now i have to watch the opening cermonies :P 00:52:54 kmc: It took me a while to get it. 00:54:50 Pro tip: don’t try to analyze the retweets in isolation. 01:04:27 available in a different format here http://anagramatron.tumblr.com/ 01:09:15 I should implement Braintrust in Racket 01:09:31 Since I can include the Racket compiler in the compiled program 01:09:50 -!- eliudLl24 has joined. 01:10:09 Should be able to avoid needing to actually have Racket, and effectively have Braintrust compile directly to machine code 01:10:28 Or... err, Racket bytecode + Racket interpreter? Not sure how it works 01:11:02 Hello 01:11:30 :'(i ave a problem :'( 01:11:36 have* 01:11:49 `relcome eliudLl24 01:11:50 ​eliudLl24: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 01:12:14 ._. 01:12:29 Haha! 01:12:32 XD 01:13:51 -!- eliudLl24 has left. 01:20:37 welp 01:21:08 contraceptioncoin dairycoin arrogantcoin jerkincoin 01:23:22 jerkcitycoin 01:23:37 I’ll buy 10000 01:25:53 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:29:16 kmc: real words seem so passé for this 01:29:39 `coins 01:29:40 geolbecoin nppcoin ardbarcoin ihaxcoin poblidcoin 350coin piecescoin chorreloecoin redcoracoin moncoin flumpaislmcoin brecoin frefcoin tagelpmencoin comcoin nunnytcoin flivitcoin nsomcoin mjicoin 272coin 01:29:54 ihaxcoin, clearly 01:29:59 numbers now huh 01:31:48 I'm now treasurer of my uni's CS society help 01:33:58 Taneb: are you the Taneb in #rust? 01:34:16 kmc, yes 01:34:28 Are you the kmc in #rust 01:34:36 Is FreeFull the FreeFull in #rust 01:34:37 help 01:34:47 yes 01:34:51 we have a nice #esoteric contingent there 01:34:59 Taneb: I am 01:35:05 :D 01:35:06 lifthrasiir sometimes 01:35:27 I tried to push myself to learn it after I accidentally convinced some of my friends to learn it and they started asking me questions 01:35:27 a nice #esoteric contingent and a grouchy #esoteric contingent 01:35:29 (that's me) 01:36:50 haha 01:36:54 Taneb: awesome 01:37:08 Taneb: that's like how I convinced Sgeo to learn Kernel 01:37:23 :D 01:37:34 except I still don't know Kernel 01:37:43 Kinda like me with Rust 01:37:46 "so, not like it, really" 01:37:57 Taneb: I told my friend not to learn it until it hits 1.0 01:38:03 Rust, that is 01:38:09 One of these friends is writing a GNU Chess Twitter bot 01:38:11 In Rust 01:38:27 FreeFull: well it's not like the concepts behind ownership, lifetimes, etc. will change 01:38:36 it's not too early to learn those 01:38:40 kmc: True, but stuff is still changing 01:38:47 just don't expect the code you write to actually compile in a month :) 01:38:52 Error handling and such 01:38:58 yeah. it's too early to learn the std lib really 01:38:58 I'm confused about the different kinds of pointers but I really just need to sit down and learn them 01:39:16 Taneb: Only three kinds I think 01:39:32 It's 20 to 2 in the morning, I'm not gonna try and learn them now 01:39:33 Taneb: managed pointers are on their way out so all we have now is owning pointers, references (formerly "borrowed pointers"), and C-style raw pointers 01:39:48 C-style you should already understand 01:39:51 Which twiddle are managed pointers? 01:40:04 managed is (was) @T 01:40:08 Ah, okay 01:40:09 -!- ggherdov has joined. 01:40:10 kmc: They're not called borrowed pointers anymore? 01:40:15 FreeFull: nope! 01:40:33 Taneb: the syntax is deprecated in favor of a library type Gc, which isn't actually GC'd yet (just refcounted) just like the old @ boxes 01:41:08 imo, write code dependent on Gc being refcounted, so that the actual later type class thing whatever has to be GcActually 01:41:52 By and large I like the language :) 01:42:21 jesus i'm so rusty with C i don't remember how to declare a constant. it doesn't have const does it? do i still #DEFINE shit 01:43:02 C does have a const declaration, but that isn't the use for it 01:44:06 Still need to get the hang of it 01:44:13 Well, I need to get the hang of not-Haskell 01:44:15 the use for it isn't declaring constants? 01:44:19 (you should see my Python code) 01:44:37 C's const is just a qualifier on pointers 01:45:01 goddamn it 01:45:12 this thing has 'const std::string hw("Hello World\n");' how do i do that in C 01:45:29 can it just be const char* hw = "Hello World\n" because that would make sense 01:45:38 hmm is that really true though? GCC will compile "const int x = 3;" as C but is that standard? 01:46:40 Bike: yes, or const char hw[] = "Hello World\n"; 01:46:45 const is a qualifier for any type 01:46:52 which has slightly different semantics 01:47:05 i might as well learn the array pointer distinction some time 01:47:08 so what's the difference 01:47:18 arrays and pointers are totally different 01:47:24 but arrays decay into pointers in some circumstances 01:47:25 yes. 01:47:38 sizeof acts differently for arrays and pointers 01:47:54 I got this link here but it's down now? http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/array-pointer.html 01:47:58 Also array is declared as a storage but a pointer doesn't do that 01:48:37 You can use const to declare a function that takes an array that has a minimum size 01:49:38 i was going to use a wrapper around this library but now i'm thinking i'm so bad with C i should write in C just to unfuck myself 01:50:03 Bike: so think of a static variable as just giving a name to some location in the binary. the «char hw[]» example gives a name to a location where "Hello World\n" is stored; the «char *hw» example gives a name to a location where a pointer (i.e. 4 or 8 bytes) to some location containing "Hello World\n" is stored 01:50:15 if it weren't const, you could reassing «char *hw» to point to another string but not «char hw[]» 01:50:20 ok hold on just a sec here 01:50:25 is it static? 01:50:34 sorry, by static i don't just mean declared with the 'static' keyword 01:50:38 yeah i know 01:50:46 i just... you're going to ahve to bear with me here 01:50:53 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmauke.hopto.org%2Fstuff%2Fc%2Farray-pointer.html 01:50:58 I mean anything declared with 'static' in a function or anything declared at the top level of a file, whether declared with 'static' or not 01:51:09 static in this context means it's like, not erased by the compiler or anything 01:51:11 i.e. variables which live at a single fixed location in the loaded binary 01:51:15 probably something cleverer. 01:51:27 as opposed to normal function local variables, which live temporarily on the stack 01:51:36 ok. makes sense. 01:51:47 this is sort of an operational view rather than a semantic one 01:51:54 but you kinda have to learn C from both ends 01:52:01 because the semantics don't make a lot of sense without the operational constraints 01:52:42 anyway read shachaf's link 01:52:50 Goodnight, all 01:52:59 goodnight 01:53:11 they say the first milestone to learning C is realizing that pointers and arrays are the same, and the second milestone is realizing that they aren't the same at all 01:54:11 so is sizeof on a pointer the size of "the pointer itself", like a word or whateverr 01:54:15 yes 01:54:35 on a 64-bit machine, sizeof(foo*) == 8 regardless of what type foo is 01:54:58 so if i do char* hw = "Hello World" and sizeof it i'll get 1 or 4 or something (or uh, 8) but if i do char hw[] = "Hello World" i'll get 11? 01:55:01 (on a typical 64-bit machine, ignoring exotic non-flat memory models and such) 01:55:13 Bike: 12 because there's a null as well 01:55:17 oh yeah. 01:55:21 ok cool that makes sense. 01:55:58 and in the second case, &hw is then the same as hw in the first case? (not counting allocation stuff or whatever, hopefully you know what i mean) 01:56:22 Bike: &hw is the same as the result of hw decaying to a pointer, yeah 01:56:27 of course sizeof(&hw) != sizeof(hw) 01:56:30 Oh, that was static I was thinking of, not const 01:56:39 void someFunction(char someArray[static 100]) 01:56:40 right 01:56:56 gotta run, ttyl! 01:57:00 and then if i had the hw pointer version (call it hwp) then &hwp would be a pointer to hwp, which is totally different from &hw 01:57:04 later thanks 01:59:59 int64_t hw[] = {1,2,3,4}; will give you a sizeof of 32 02:05:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: nite). 02:11:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:11:51 -!- Bike has joined. 02:18:01 is ther esome constant to return from main instead of zero if i'm being incredibly anal 02:18:29 I don't know of any such thing 02:18:55 you know, something like RETURN_SUCCESS that's zero on everything except the fuckutron 9000 02:19:03 just wondering cos EXIT_SUCCESS and EXIT_FAILURE apparently exist 02:20:56 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:21:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:29:31 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:52:33 Bike: the return codes from main are always the same as the arguments to exit(), I think 02:52:50 Yep. 03:04:51 cilantrocoin 03:04:57 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:07:15 kmc: does the name aaron todd ring a bell? 03:07:47 maybe 03:07:49 the nick "toddaaro" does 03:07:52 yup 03:08:29 he's my new officemate! he said he knew (of?) you 03:09:17 cool 03:09:59 good news i have more C questions 03:10:05 hooray 03:10:10 And we know all of C. 03:10:22 good news everybody! 03:10:22 this API has a function for getting an array ("an array") of information, like a version string or suchlike 03:10:54 the function is like get_version(size_t, char*, size_t*) 03:11:23 and you basically have to call it twice - the first time the first two arguments are NULL or w/e and you just want the size_t pointer, which tells you the size the result will be 03:11:37 and then you call it with the third argument NULL and the first argument the third from last time 03:11:41 why not have two functions? 03:12:20 why two functions when you can have one 03:12:28 Is this Windows? 03:12:35 Sounds like Windows API design. 03:12:42 i've heard of windows apis doing that 03:12:51 it's not, but the billion NULLs everywhere did give me bad memories of windows 03:13:12 i mean, the goal is to avoid having to call malloc in the library, right, but like... bluh 03:13:38 I imagine the intent is that you can pass a buffer and the size of the buffer, and call a second time if you had to resize the buffer. 03:16:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:16:36 i guess that sort of makes sense... 03:17:10 also: this thing returns a char[] technically. can i just assume that it's null terminated? (it is with my implementation but, anal) 03:17:44 you mean, assume it because of the type? 03:18:00 the type and usual conventions. 03:18:16 i imagine it's possible to return a non-null-terminated char[], i'm just wondering if anyone does so. 03:18:22 without saying so, anyway 03:18:40 It's done, but it's also pretty explicitly said. 03:18:53 The default assumption is that a char* is NUL terminated. 03:18:55 "returning a char[]" is kind of strange anyway 03:18:56 ok. was kinda paranoid since i had the size of the string on hand and all. 03:19:20 shachaf: Unless the function returns a char[static 4] or something then it's just goofy. 03:19:23 :) 03:19:23 but if you're using char * strings in C they'll generally be \0-terminated, yes 03:19:54 the api spec has "char[]". i actually have it using a char* without complaint, and i guess it's the same as a function argument anyway 03:20:27 Yes, in a function declaration it's just a really stupid way of writing char*. 03:20:44 well in the decl it's a void*... you know what i'm probably not describing this well anyway http://www.khronos.org/registry/cl/sdk/1.2/docs/man/xhtml/ 03:21:01 Oooooh, it's those idiots. 03:21:10 They couldn't design a good API to save their lives. 03:21:10 are khronos known idiots 03:21:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:21:19 Yes, OpenGL is horrid. 03:21:44 it does this thing with "contexts" that i vaguely remember from opengl, in fact... 03:26:42 How you'd do clGetPlatformInfo in a sane way is more like: char *cl_platform_info(int id); 03:27:34 what, no cl_int?? 03:27:47 cl_int is evidence of brain damage. 03:28:04 every C api i have ever used defines its own whatever_int whatever_char whatever_whatever 03:28:23 Yes, that is a cargo cult practice. 03:28:36 actually, wait, i don't think memory pool system did. thanks, mps 03:28:44 why the hell do they do that, it's so confusing. 03:28:53 i'm pretty sure i've asked this before. 03:29:09 I have no idea why it's done, I just know that it has literally no value. 03:30:09 hmmmmm mps sorta does it 03:30:09 But then, zlib is claimed to be a good library. Which is saddening. 03:30:12 "A transparent type is an alias defined using typedef, and this is documented so that the client program can rely on that fact. For example, mps_addr_t is a transparent alias for void *. Transparent types express intentions in the interface: in the case of mps_addr_t it represents a pointer that is under the control of the MPS." 03:30:51 which seems kind of weird still, but at least there's no mps_int_t. 03:30:56 I disagree with that choice, but that is at least someone being reasonable. 03:31:18 Except that library does not strictly conform to C. :P 03:31:32 *_t is reserved namespace. 03:31:33 what, you can't typedef with void* or something? 03:31:35 oh. 03:31:46 well, whoops, that's all over the place. 03:32:12 Yep. That too is cargo culted from people seeing it in libc a lot. 03:32:12 * Bike glances through other api docs, finds plenty of size_t and va_list at least 03:32:23 Where it's used a lot *because it's reserved for libc*. 03:32:29 heh. 03:33:14 The point is, you can't make your own types ending in _t. Because that's reserved. 03:33:34 right, sure. 03:33:40 it seems like a weirdo hungarian thing, i guess. 03:34:14 More a "C has no namespacing whatsoever" thing. 03:34:15 when i first started programming i tried a lot of C but never quite understood it because of things like this that are never explained. being a programmer in that sort of environment seems demoralizing. 03:34:44 This is largely a matter of no good books on the subject existing. 03:35:02 admittedly Learn C in 24 Hours wasn't the best choice on my part 03:35:04 :p 03:35:10 Because many C programmers learned C from cargo culting in the 80s. 03:36:31 I started learning C by writing programs that crash a lot. I still haven't left that phase. 03:37:39 pikhq: so with your sane way - that means the cl library handles the malloc-ing? 03:38:07 No. It returns a pointer to a fixed, constant buffer in the library. 03:39:26 oh, i see. i don't think it's necessarily that fixed though. 03:39:37 anyway, i just noticed these Get functions are allowed to return OOM codes anyway. 03:39:47 *facepalm* 03:39:49 so that's cool 03:40:02 this is all so efficient! 03:40:20 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:40:55 Another way to handle it, if it can't be fixed or even fixed in size, is: char *cl_platform_info(char **, size_t *); 03:41:04 Wherein it'll call realloc for you if necessary. 03:41:34 that assumes a lot about how you'll be doing memory management 03:41:47 How so? 03:42:24 well, that your string will be allocated by malloc() 03:48:44 hm, in this case the cl_uint etc. thing might be justified, since cl defines a C-ish language for devices that aren't the host, so uint on the host may not be the device's uint, so they call the latter cl_uint 03:48:51 except there's no way the device is calling these functions. 03:54:17 "we can expect internal chip speeds to increase by a factor of approximately 13 overall up to 2012, when the clock rates reach about 10GHz" 03:54:37 :o 03:54:50 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:55:16 C APIs have so many wacky ways to manage memory... in this sense Rust actually has *fewer* pointer types than C ;) 03:56:15 it's just that Rust's different pointer types are checked by the compiler, rather than being something you have to hold in your head and never ever screw up or you get pwned 03:57:21 Bike: ooh are you using MPS? 03:57:28 MPS seems pretty shiny 03:57:39 no, it's just what comes to mind when i think of "C API that i can remotely understand" 03:57:52 ok 03:57:53 would be nice to have to use it 04:03:00 hm this thing says a return value can be "a combination of" a bunch of opaque constants 04:03:19 ;_; 04:03:25 they probably mean a bitwise OR 04:03:33 probably 04:03:41 but who knows 04:04:14 "Currently supported values are one of or a combination of: CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CPU, CL_DEVICE_TYPE_GPU, CL_DEVICE_TYPE_ACCELERATOR, CL_DEVICE_TYPE_DEFAULT, a combination of the above types, or CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CUSTOM. " kinda redundant actually 04:07:52 cool gcc doesn't recognize CL_DEVICE_TYPE_CUSTOM, maybe i can "file a bug" 04:09:46 hey sweet these things have popcnt. finally good news. 04:10:08 even the GPU. what's a GPU do with popcnt? hell if i know but i'm excited to find out. 04:11:39 i wonder if pikhq would like the thirty lines beginning with "typedef cl_uint" 04:12:14 "WARNING! Unlike cl_ types in cl_platform.h, cl_bool is not guaranteed to be the same size as the bool in kernels." what's the point of anything life is meaningless 04:27:48 I ran all resplicate sequences of the form 6 3 10 1 62 n 1 for all odd numbers up to 500 and classified them according to what they did long-term. 04:28:19 turns out 6 3 10 1 6 2 459 1 is a period 9808 oscillator 04:28:26 (or rather, becomes one) 04:28:38 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:31:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:39:17 Should I be concerned that a Racket dev is pointing to node.js as an example of why I shouldn't complain about something that Racket does? 04:39:28 yes 04:39:39 In the sense of 'it worked for node.js, it would work for us' 04:40:21 http://www.reddit.com/r/Racket/comments/1w88rq/social_solution_to_a_technical_problem/cf9vy4g?context=3 04:40:52 well ok 04:41:21 slightly ironic because of the multi-year fight over who gets to be "node" in Debian 04:42:36 and 6 3 10 1 6 2 383 1 converges to the 688-twos oscillator after 42,118 cycles. 04:42:52 METHUSELAH 04:45:05 kmc: port syntax-parse to Rust 04:45:14 no u 04:45:29 Hmm, I wonder if Racket's syntax-parse, when told that something is an expression, will expand it to check 04:46:11 Also, I want to write a more hygienic syntax-quasiquote 04:59:04 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:59:39 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:02:28 kmc: that thing you linked me. Haven't watched yet, but I assume it's intended to be if the language has already been implemented, and starting from scratch things could have been done differently, this wouldn't be needed? 05:04:11 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:09:07 i don't know 05:14:34 -!- w00tles has joined. 05:17:18 kmc: should I be twitching in discomfort at a templating system that picks up on the lexical environment of the include-template? 05:18:01 ask your doctor if you should be twitching 05:22:44 If it's anything like the feeling I get when I pass locals() to a Django template... 05:22:52 D: 05:23:48 monotone: obviously the template code should be rewritten to use the 'inspect' module to read its caller's locals implicitly 05:23:51 :D :D :D 05:24:53 "Anything that makes us more like PHP has to be good, right?" 05:26:15 sinners, sinners, i'm surrounded by iniquity 05:26:44 It's not too late to renounce the material world and become a monk! 05:27:15 Actually, no, I think Perl ruined that one. 05:27:36 Bike: Yeah, you're screwed. 05:27:53 what else is new 05:30:28 The Winter Olympics? 05:31:21 they've been having those forever. 05:31:34 i need something fresh!! 05:35:30 I feel like you won't be satisfied with anything but the blood of the innocent. 05:35:46 well obviously 05:37:17 You'll have to ask kmc for that. 05:40:43 kmc what's the market price of innocent blood 05:49:32 -!- luserdroog has joined. 05:52:43 jeez it's so hard to get ever since silk road shut down 05:53:45 only since 1924, that's hardly "forever" 06:00:02 I should try Light Table 06:00:21 If I'm willing to like Smalltalk merely because of the IDE, trying a 'good' IDE for a language I once liked shouldn't be painful 06:00:29 And it's not like I have new reason to dislike Clojure 06:04:00 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 06:24:04 i should have known "typedef intptr_t cl_context_properties" wasn't going to end well. it ended with clCreateContext({CL_CONTEXT_PLATFORM, (cl_context_properties)(platform[0]), 0}, ...) 06:24:48 btw cl_uint isn't a mere unsigned int, it's actually unsigned __int32 06:40:06 indiscretioncoin grittiercoin cockamamiecoin weepcoin manslaughtercoin gloamingcoin kebabcoin yawncoin snackcoin spaghetticoin 06:41:04 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 06:44:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:44:20 weepcoin sounds useful and fun 06:46:39 you mine weepcoins by weeping 06:46:50 shit i'm way ahead of the market 06:46:55 imo hugcoin 06:48:54 Matthew Green's rationale for launching Zerocoin as a new currency: "If people will put money into Dogecoin, they’ll put it into anything" 06:54:56 Which is a more entertaining read, The Reasoned Schemer, or Purely Functional Data Structures? 06:55:34 i recommend some karel čapek. 06:55:34 i think the former is more entertaining but i care more about the results in the latter 06:56:20 if your goal is entertainment there are also other books you could read that would satisfy it even better 07:33:58 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:11:29 kalecoin 08:13:58 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:16:49 `coins 08:16:50 rflcercoin percoin 90pcoin demcoin 3trecoin rtnencoin um-32coin sheavoignacoin cystoccoin undennecoin goto++coin vernankcoin wildcoin rssbcoin fortcoin chrcoin iotcoin gagnacoin tace1.0coin spartneratemlcoin 08:17:06 90pcoin, the cryptocurrency for the 90%. 08:19:49 elliott_________: this seems like something you'd like: http://dorrismccomics.com/post/6384447758 08:32:16 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bfut4WoCQAAdY3o.jpg 08:33:40 "If the Perl 5 interpreter source were lost, I'm pretty sure we as a species could not accurately recreate it." 08:34:11 Sgeo: heh. 08:40:37 http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2014/02/07/finnish_police_probe_wikipedia_donation_requests that'll teach them 09:28:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:29:40 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Changing host). 09:29:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:40:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:59:53 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:14:18 -!- mtve has joined. 10:15:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:15:15 -!- conehead has joined. 10:19:26 Why am I installing EiffelStudio? 10:25:41 why are you asking us 10:31:55 -!- Bike has joined. 10:54:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:11:06 http://imgur.com/gallery/nfRsdYe 11:29:00 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:15:25 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:30:38 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 12:32:04 -!- Sellyme has joined. 12:53:39 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:56:31 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:09:26 -!- yorick has joined. 13:14:39 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:16:13 -!- itsy has joined. 13:20:26 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:24:05 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:32:22 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 13:34:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:37:40 -!- MoALTz has joined. 13:38:44 Breaking Baryons http://youtu.be/eI91bT-p5Oc | Desperately Seeking Susy http://youtu.be/3vM5u3VT_WE 13:42:15 Got my Heart on a String 13:46:32 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:57:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:59:54 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:04:17 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:04:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:07:21 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:09:26 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:12:14 A Core War tournament has just been announced http://youtu.be/41GIevxobH0 (more details tomorrow) 14:47:26 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 15:02:03 `unicode ELLIPSIS 15:02:04 Unknown character. 15:02:20 `unicode HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS 15:02:21 ​… 15:08:15 helloerjan 15:08:49 hello just confirming one of your conjectures 15:09:01 (and making your python work) 15:09:23 `unicode PILE OF SHIT 15:09:24 Unknown character. 15:09:27 Aww. 15:09:31 What was it called? 15:09:37 my local copy works perfectly! 15:09:40 `unicode PILE OF POO 15:09:41 Unknown character. 15:10:30 `unicode EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH E017 15:10:30 ​𓃥 15:10:36 (probably the wiki version isn't the same as my local version. i updated them together rather than copypasting) 15:11:00 oerjan: which conjecture did you confirm 15:11:03 hm is the remainder a conjecture at all 15:11:14 "The family 6 3 10 1 6 2 (2k) 1 for k at least 12 always becomes an oscillator of period k-1." 15:11:50 just tracing it by hand, and doing the python on a couple examples to check i didn't mess up 15:14:14 shikhin: HackEgo has a copy of python that cannot handle all of unicode. 15:14:16 yeah i don't understand your proof. the last line and 6th line look nothing the same... :P 15:14:29 oerjan: Fix it! 15:14:48 6th last line, quintopia 15:15:02 oh 15:15:27 ah yes 15:15:46 shikhin: too much work, especially while HackEgo is otherwise somewhat broken (but don't count on me doing it anyway) 15:16:06 Ah :-( 15:16:50 oh wait 15:17:20 oerjan: i ran 6 3 10 1 6 2 n 1 for all odds up to 500 and categorized the long-term behavior for each one. i can uncover no pattern. 15:18:06 ah. 15:19:07 fixed a miscounting in the description. 15:19:47 i somehow looked at the wrong vertical ellipsis when counting the first time 15:50:41 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:03:55 ais523: you might want the little resplicate building block i made 16:04:34 oerjan: it's OK, I already proved it TC 16:04:38 quintopia: ResPlicate's TC 16:04:45 yay! 16:05:42 (and a little aww, too) 16:07:09 quintopia: oerjan: http://nethack4.org/esolangs/resplicate/tag-to-resplicate.pl http://nethack4.org/esolangs/resplicate/tc-proof-notes.txt 16:07:42 tag system to resplicate compiler, notes I wrote when creating it (so you can get some insight into how I go about proving languages TC) 16:07:57 I'm almost inspired to make a tarpit version now (which would probably be more complex than the original) 16:08:06 resplicate has a whole bunch of capabilities that aren't particularly useful 16:08:57 btw, that compiler uses -1 for cells that never execute 16:09:06 I'm not sure if that technically complies with the language definition 16:09:21 it does not 16:18:02 you can just substitute any other number, though 16:18:08 let me go change it 16:19:22 OK, now it uses 523 16:21:00 oerjan: actually the TCness proof was pretty routine 16:21:12 there was only one difficult bit, remembering where the IP was after copying the alphabet 16:22:13 also that interp's got a lot more complex overnight 16:22:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 16:36:06 hm reading your .txt, i think the part about being allowed to copy misaligned alphabets is important for being able to perform a command in a single pass of the queue, which is also alas why you won't be needing anything like the nice building block i made 16:36:32 oerjan: I feel like there may be some complex solution that doesn't require misaligned alphabets 16:36:52 but there's not much point, because resplicate isn't really a tarpit, it has a whole range of different things you can do 16:37:20 my vague thoughts (which i tried not to think _too_ much about since i knew you were working on it) was that you'd need a second pass through to clean up afterwards, which is why i thought such a "stabilizer" was needed when you went through the rest of the queue 16:38:16 and also i was thinking cyclic tag instead, which i now realize is more complicated. 16:38:41 (because you have state that needs to be passed on) 16:39:35 s/you have/cyclic tag has/ 16:40:22 cyclic tag is basically one of the simplest models for "the program and data are separate" models 16:40:40 if you have to mix them up, then you can use tag, which basically just needs a queue and a lookup table 16:40:53 lookup tables are awkward in many languages, but pretty easy in ResPlicate 16:41:26 right 16:44:06 so the only tricky issue in ResPlicate is trying to distribute copies of the lookup table where you need them, while not losing track of what you're doing in the process 16:56:30 http://www.theonion.com/articles/newly-tenured-professor-now-inspired-to-work-harde,35169/?utm_source=butt&utm_medium=butt&utm_campaign=butt 17:00:13 what's with all the key=butt in the query string? 17:01:19 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: You should get to the bottom of this). 17:01:30 ais523: It had some more boring tracking information but i fixed it. 17:01:44 ah right 17:02:15 why didn't you delete it though... 17:02:46 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:03:53 int-e: That would result in a lack of butts in some httpd log. 17:04:14 Hah. Try uploading a file that is not an image. http://i.srsfckn.biz/ 17:05:49 colorful. 17:06:24 it doesn't like .xpm 17:06:25 sniff. 17:07:24 or windows bitmaps. is it jpg and png only? 17:08:11 curl: (26) failed creating formpost data 17:08:37 What happen if the file has extra data on the end? 17:08:40 oh, gif, too. 17:09:18 Nevermind I figured out the problem 17:10:43 it doesn't mind extra data. 17:12:05 How do I convert it into CP437 encoding? 17:13:26 O, I figured out I have iconv in MinGW 17:15:01 http://i.srsfckn.biz/95.png 17:15:31 OK 17:20:16 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:20:43 I tried uploading a ZIP archive by prepending a 1x1 PNG file and it works 17:21:59 http://i.srsfckn.biz/3B2.png 17:23:17 -rw-a-- 2.0 fat 6294 b- defN 14-Feb-08 09:12 pic.ans 17:24:26 Yes, that is what it is done 17:25:09 Such a file can be unzipped even though it is uploading as PNG 17:40:11 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 17:43:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:04:18 ais523: can you make nethack4 deliver pl files with a text/plain mime type please? 18:04:31 i'd rather examine code in browser 18:05:04 quintopia: hmm, is there any way to get your browser to override the MIME type? 18:05:16 I like the current situation because then I get syntax highlighting 18:06:32 i don't know of any way for dolphin 18:06:48 you use a filesystem browser as a web browser? 18:06:56 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140208-pi2.jpg <- it's a Raspberry Pi. (Well, part of it.) 18:06:58 or are there /three/ programs called dolphin? 18:07:02 the mobile browser not the file system browser 18:07:17 ok, right, there are at least three programs called dolphin 18:07:30 three programs...plus gamecube 18:07:47 the gamecube emulator's named after the gamecube's codename 18:07:53 so that isn't really surprising 18:08:16 (I remember seeing someone complaining that their computer thought that their gamecube emulator was a file manager and kept trying to open directories in it…) 18:09:28 how long until gamecube emulator for mobile 18:09:59 I'd say it'd be a while before mobile phone have enough power, a few years at least 18:10:55 and even on PCs, gamecube emulators don't have accurate timings for reading from CD yet 18:11:04 which completely changes the strategy for some games 18:12:45 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:13:31 ais523: what mime type does it actually deliver .py as? i'll search for plugins or something 18:13:36 *.pl 18:14:39 Content-Type: application/x-perl 18:14:56 sorry, had to go tell my browser to capture the HTTP headers, browsers tend not to do that by default 18:15:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:15:36 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:18:25 oh gah, now I'm thinking about the 1D MMO again 18:18:33 that's one of #esoteric's sillier ideas 18:19:25 There's at least one 1D shooter, Lineality. 18:19:35 https://archive.org/details/Lineality 18:19:53 hmm, in a 1D shooter, it seems quite hard to miss 18:20:00 (It's not online at all, though.) 18:20:11 what sort of mechanics are used to make the shooting part interesting? you have to get the range accurate? 18:20:30 I don't remember. It's possible that no effort was spent to make it an interesting game. 18:21:36 You can select between "Width Mode", "Height Mode" and "Depth Mode", which I think control the direction of the line. 18:21:41 It can also optionally rotate. 18:22:58 Well, you get to choose the direction to shoot at, and enemies drop life. 18:23:09 I suppose there's some amount of strategy involved in deciding when to turn around. 18:26:55 an MMO on a tape would be cute 18:28:48 do you ever feel disappointed that your gpu isn't four dimensional because i do 18:32:18 Bike: modern GPUs are perfectly capable of doing four-dimensional calculations (then rendering them to 3D, then 2D for the screen) 18:32:28 although the GPU itself is three-dimensional 18:32:34 i can't have 4d work groups though 18:32:59 however, most GPU programming languages don't let you mess around with the 5x5 matrices you'd need 18:33:00 256×256×256 max. tyrannical 18:33:06 CUDA and OpenCL do 18:33:30 oh, that's pretty minor, given that if you're creating a "256x256x256" group it's basically just concatenating the bits of the three coordinates 18:33:37 you can just modulo them out of the block number by hand 18:33:52 some GPUs even have shift operations nowadays 18:34:25 but it's just not the same, man! 18:35:21 anyway i'm going to write my first gpgpu program up in here. gonna square an array. shit yeah. 18:35:42 Bike: oh boy, have fun 18:35:48 we use that as a GPU optimization test for our students sometimes 18:36:00 there are mindbogglingly high numbers of ways to screw that up performance-wise 18:36:12 I do think you should have support just arbitrary dimensional 18:36:15 i was thinking about what would make a good "hello world" but matrix*vector and summing a vector both seemed too complicated 18:36:19 like, if you write a naive matrix-squaring program, there are at least 8 optimizations you can do 18:36:50 zzo38: basically the way it works is that the GPU can handle a limited number of "blocks" at any given time, which are basically the large scheduling units of the GPU 18:36:54 the tutorial i'm going off of uses an actual hello world. like what, this is a fucking gpu 18:37:31 Does it raytrace "Hello world!"? 18:37:37 and you want blocks to have high data locality, i.e. you want to reduce the amount of memory that each individual block accesses as far as possible 18:37:39 Because that seems like something that'd be sensical to do on a GPU 18:37:46 the blocks have numbers that are just integers (typically 24-bit) 18:37:53 no, it just has each unit put a single letter into a string 18:37:57 but it often makes sense to interpret them as coordinates 18:38:00 Oh, boring 18:38:05 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:38:16 Bike: actually, GPU-accelerated memcpy is a pretty good hello world 18:38:28 memcpy maybe, but this is a constant... 18:38:42 yeah, I wasn't suggesting for a hello world 18:38:55 but as a first project that isn't very difficult yet is the sort of task GPUs are actually good at 18:39:13 i figure elementwise squaring shouldn't be hard. 18:39:15 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-26098944 18:39:20 way to not sound sinister bbc 18:39:27 NetHack 4 uses GPU acceleration for copying rectangular areas around in video memory (and occasionally alpha-blending), that's about it 18:39:33 yet it still helps a lot because GPUs are very fast 18:39:37 Bike: oh, element-wise 18:39:39 it's only taking time because the only tutorial i found is in C++ and kind of fucked up 18:39:44 I thought you mean multiplying an array by itself 18:39:46 nethack 4 uses the gpu??? 18:39:48 what were you thinking? cross product? 18:39:58 elliott_________: only in tiles or faketerm mode 18:40:01 also yeah i'm excited to hear even term roguelikes are high-end now 18:40:11 aw I was hoping it was just for internal optimisation 18:40:18 wait. alpha blending? what? 18:40:30 Bike: in case it wants to draw "monster on stairs" or whatever 18:40:39 dag 18:41:00 conditionals are really hard to do on a GPU, turns out that alpha blending (multiplying by 1 or 0) is actually faster than using an if statement to do transparency any other way 18:41:27 lol. 18:41:31 or well, they're not /hard/, you can write them just fine 18:41:36 but GPUs are not fast at evaluating them 18:41:46 do they have any branch prediction? 18:41:53 i doubt it but 18:42:55 they actually /can't/ have branch prediction, the way they work, because absolutely everythig is SIMD 18:43:16 if statements tend to be very slow unless the entire warp takes the same branch, as a result 18:43:24 otherwise it has to process the branches separately 18:44:07 GPUs do something that's similar in nature to branch prediction, though 18:44:07 warp? 18:44:26 if a block tries to access data, it'll deschedule it while it's waiting for the data to arrive from RAM 18:44:45 a half-warp is the unit that actually runs on a GPU at once 18:45:14 like, it has one ALU for each thread in the half-warp, they all run in perfect lock-step (sufficiently so that if you know what the GPU's warp size is, you can get away with not adding in synchronization primitives) 18:45:52 current GPUs take one clock cycle to write the value back into block memory, so you effectively have an entire warp running concurrently 18:46:13 GPU programming languages tend to abstract away the existence of warps, you work at the thread or block level 18:47:27 blugh, it's going to suck figuring out how to write a kernel for the actual thing i'm writing. i'm porting it from matlab full of branches V_V 18:47:43 and not-independent for loop iterations 18:47:50 good time to have zero experience with concurrency 18:49:01 Can NetHack 4 run in text mode and not use GPU (such as if it is not available)? 18:49:36 ais523: There is Checkout on esolang wiki though, but no implementation (as far as I know) 18:50:37 he wrote it. 18:52:04 zzo38: it can run in text mode without the GPU 19:01:10 some day I'd like to write a game entirely on the GPU, that sounds like it could be fun 19:03:07 how do you do a multiline string in C again 19:03:42 "first line\n" (put a literal newline here) "second line\n" and so on 19:04:09 C ignores doublequote, whitespace, doublequote sequences in strings 19:04:35 it also ignores backslash-newline sequences anywhere but that's typically a bad idea to use because that doesn't let you indent the line afterwards 19:04:46 oh. well that's convenient 19:04:59 I did program a bit more of "Savant's Maze" roguelike game; now it is possible to pick up items and list them in your inventory. However, a curse affects all items of the same kind so if you have a cursed scroll of knight move and pick up an uncursed one, that one will become cursed too, or if you have an uncursed one and pick up a cursed one, both will become cursed. 19:05:48 doing a backslash-newline in the middle of a keyword is typically frowned on 19:06:24 lol 19:20:35 -!- trout has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 19:21:34 I think the backslash-newline thing was invented for the same reason as trigraphs, so that you could write a very simple mechanical translator from C-code-I-found-on-Usenet (the Web didn't exist back then) to C-code-that-fits-my-machine's-text-encoding 19:21:47 in this case, to deal with line length issues rather than character set issues 19:22:03 back in the days of punched cards, there were literal limits on the longest lines it was possible to store in text files 19:22:07 although, hmm 19:22:15 I wonder if punched cards and Usenet coexisted, it seems unlikely 19:22:25 possibly punched-card machines were still in use as Usenet were starting, but not widespread 19:27:24 actually I think that given the design of C, the most likely explanation is that they did it like that just in case someone wanted to use it with a punched card machine at some point 19:31:22 -!- conehead has joined. 19:35:54 > "\ \" 19:35:56 "" 19:42:58 FreeFull: interesting use of backslashes 19:43:05 what happens if you put stuff other than whitespace in between them? 19:43:16 ais523: what about in comments? 19:43:27 backslash-newline in C, I mean 19:43:34 FireFly: you can backslash-newline inside comments, including // comments 19:43:39 Nice 19:43:43 this is a great way to troll people, I think gcc warns about it nowadays 19:43:49 Well, maybe "nice" is not the right word 19:43:51 you can also backslash-newline between the / and * or * and / 19:43:58 but it's quite hard to make that look like an accident 19:44:20 > "\ a \" 19:44:21 :1:6: 19:44:22 lexical error in string/character literal at character 'a' 19:45:08 I imagine you could camouflage it in line comments doing something like /// this is a comment \\\ 19:45:09 it'd be fun, although kind-of pointless, if strings allowed comments in them 19:45:25 in C you can do that using "hello "/* this is a comment */"world" 19:45:56 because comments are transformed to whitespace before string literals are concatenated 19:49:33 it's even better with trigraphs 19:49:36 // Will the next line be executed????????????????/ 19:49:36 a++; 19:51:18 more C questions. i have a const char[] source at toplevel. in a function when i try declaring "char[][] sources = {source}" gcc tells me the element type is incomplete. 19:52:39 you can't define an array of things whose size is unknown 19:52:53 and the size of char[] is unknown (unlike, say, char[10]) 19:53:09 you would probably use: char *sources[] 19:53:22 hm 19:53:25 which is an array of char* 19:54:09 yeah, that works (once i add a const), thanks 19:56:09 const char *foo[] is an array of const char*, right? can i make the array itself constant (not really necessary, but) 19:58:57 const char * const foo[] 19:59:23 elegant 19:59:26 it's uncommon though 19:59:28 -!- variable has joined. 19:59:45 yeah it's pointless here 19:59:51 people get more particular about const in C++ 19:59:54 at least in some styles of C++ 20:00:15 `which cdecl 20:00:16 No output. 20:00:18 boo 20:00:51 well you can use it on the web here: http://cdecl.org/ 20:00:54 C syntax is kinda weird 20:00:54 "declare foo as array of const pointer to const char" 20:01:09 like, int typedef foo; being legal, since typedefs are just regular declarations 20:01:24 FireFly: yeah 20:01:46 it has a certain degree of internal consistency ("declaration follows use!") but it's a /bad/ rule even if there is a rule 20:02:11 const int (* volatile bar)[64] // ;___; 20:02:11 i had this idea that i could use {...} as a constant literal nameless array because of the initializer syntax 20:02:14 That part is somewhat reasonable-ish I find 20:02:14 what a fool i was! 20:02:25 I tried to define a function that returns pointers to arrays 20:02:31 I'm not entirely sure if it's legal 20:02:32 I mean, at least it's not completely weird once you understand what's going on 20:02:42 ais523: why not? 20:02:44 but with declaration follows use, the resulting syntaxes are beautifully bizarre 20:02:50 Some new things are allowed in GNU C though 20:02:55 "char * const (*(* const bar)[5])(int )" lol 20:03:37 when you get types that complex the only reasonable approach is typedefs 20:03:50 ok let me see if i can untangle it without this site 20:03:50 let's see; function taking void, returning pointer to int[2], would be by declaration-follows-use int *(func(void))[2] 20:03:50 lots of typedefs 20:04:22 FireFly: What does int typedef foo; mean? 20:04:27 ............. 20:04:29 ok i give up. 20:04:32 same as typedef int foo; 20:04:36 Ok 20:04:40 `typedef` is just a storage specifiec IIRC 20:04:41 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: typedef`: not found 20:04:42 specifier* 20:04:54 Ah 20:04:58 So same as const and static? 20:05:15 yeah 20:05:26 ais523: I think you might need to write that as "int *(func(void))[static 2]" to have it not be literally the same as returning an int**. :) 20:05:31 cdecl translates "declare f as function (void) returning pointer to array 2 of int" to "int (*f(void ))[2]" 20:05:47 pikhq: doesn't it returns a variably modified type anyway? 20:06:18 Yes, but with [static 2] it's a constraint violation to return a buffer with fewer than 2 elements. 20:06:29 sweet, i got my segfault again 20:06:35 woooyeah livin the dream 20:06:39 [static 2] is a wonderfully obscure corner of C99 :) 20:06:42 along with [*] 20:06:49 I'm quite fond of it. :) 20:06:51 me too 20:06:54 I think I learned it from you here :) 20:06:56 I'm not even sure what that does 20:07:00 well, now I am I guess 20:07:02 int [fungot 2]; 20:07:02 kmc: i don't think you can make clumsy, kludgey workarounds. the interviewee thought it was 20:07:04 I do not like those features of C99 20:07:10 The really nice thing about [static 2] is, it even *has a point*. 20:07:20 honestly i think i'd be happy just if [] went on the type instead of the name 20:07:27 zzo38: int foo[static 1] is a non-nullable pointer. :) 20:07:28 and function pointer type syntax just... died in a hole somewhere 20:07:31 fungot does not approve of C99's obscure corners 20:07:31 FireFly: i could be 20:07:39 fungot: make your mind up 20:07:39 FireFly: though right now i'm putting the finishing touches on it.) 20:07:43 it's stronger than just a non-nullable pointer 20:07:55 pikhq: Such thing is worthless as far as I can tell. 20:07:57 [static 2] is a promise to the compiler, right? not anything the compiler will check for you (unless you get lucky with warnings) 20:08:01 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:08:07 kmc: Right, yes. 20:08:14 I found a bunch of things I thought was weird when I looked through http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/ANSI-C-grammar-y.html once 20:08:30 [static 1] is *essentially* a non-nullable pointer though. As it guarantees it'll point to a valid buffer with at least one element. 20:08:31 hm i think i need to queue up a read even though it's synced to host memory 20:08:32 whatevs 20:08:38 #include \\int (*f(void ))[2] {\ return malloc (2 * sizeof (int));\}\\int main(void) {\ int (*x)[2] = f();\ free(x);\ return 0;\} 20:08:44 (that's a C program with \ rather than newline) 20:08:47 does actually compile and run 20:09:02 pikhq: it's non-nullable but it also has to point to memory which is mapped, and is of the appropriate type 20:09:15 * pikhq nods 20:09:23 btw: in this thing there's a setup to wait for something on the event queue to finish, but you can also specify that the i/o operation you're enqueuing should block 20:09:28 It can't be UB to dereference it. Slightly stronger, yeah. 20:09:39 There Is More Than One Way To Do It And They're All Kind Of Weird 20:10:27 Do you think the way BLISS does it is better? Nice features of BLISS are not found in C or any other modern programming languages I know of. 20:10:51 ais523: Yes. 20:11:03 is C a modern programming language? it's more like a coelacanth to me 20:11:14 What does "coelacanth" mean? 20:11:26 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:11:31 The coelacanth is a fish famous for being "evolutionarily old". 20:11:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:11:41 it's a type of fish which has not evolved much in the past 400 million years 20:11:42 the species has been "basically the same" for "a very long time" 20:12:05 they're kinda ugly 20:12:17 your mom 20:12:28 welp 20:12:35 It's believed to be closely related with the first tetrapods. 20:12:44 refer to previous message 20:12:52 anyway the point is that C isn't a modern programming language, says kmc 20:13:00 but it's still kickin' 20:13:03 yep 20:13:08 or not, since it doesn't have legs, just fins 20:13:11 C will outlive the human race 20:13:28 what, did we put it on some space probe? 20:13:35 And my opinion is that C99 and C11 and so on are trying to improve C in the wrong way. 20:13:52 zzo is strongly opposed to jaws and adaptive immune systems 20:14:05 ~biology joke~ 20:14:54 oh, i suppose coelacanths have those. boring. 20:15:26 gonna go bunch a shark 20:15:49 btw the way bones develop is completely insane, i see why sharks don't wanna 20:15:55 they look like tampons with a billion eyes...................... 20:16:00 :-D http://ponzi.io/ 20:16:22 ion: yeah wtf 20:16:27 the sound of a thousand economists' heads exploding 20:16:58 are these numbers real... 20:17:36 "STILL WAITING TO MY 0.017728BTC FROM YESTERDAY. 3-4 TIMES WORKED FOR ME THEN GRABBED ALL MY MONEY." holy shit 20:17:39 this is beautiful 20:17:56 STOP INVEST IF YOU WANT TO LOOOSE YOUR MONEY! 20:18:25 Support for zero length arrays is a good way to improve C. 20:19:19 ok so that amount of BTC is about twelve bucks right now 20:19:27 makes it even better. 20:19:48 1BTC is such a large unit that it's hard to get a mental grasp on it 20:20:08 I'm not clicking the link, but is that site basically a ponzi scheme that's totally upfront about it? 20:20:14 yup. 20:20:16 Yes.\ 20:20:23 and it has two hundred something btc in it. 20:20:46 if .01 btc is about twelve bucks, 1 btc is 1200 bucks. more than that cos of the other digits. that's not hard to grasp. 20:20:48 wait, isn't that like a hundred thousand dollars? 20:21:05 beautiful, isn't it? 20:21:13 they've taken in about $160,000 yeah 20:21:16 and paid out most of it 20:21:28 because of how bitcoin works you can at least verify that everyone in the past has gotten paid back 20:21:34 oh, I thought that's the amount they kept for themselves 20:21:41 :O 20:22:00 i kind of doubt anyone who'd set this up feels btc are worth it :p 20:22:06 I wonder if I can shorten this to use fewer than 29 parts 20:22:37 Other thing to improve C would be to make "extern static" to be allowed, but I don't think any version of any C standard is allowing it. 20:23:11 they have a point that this might be a money laundering scheme 20:23:15 but not a sustainable one 20:23:25 a typical laundry would pay back less that 100% of what you put in........... 20:24:01 "butbuob: Show HN: Litecoin Ponzi Scheme written in Rust" 20:25:38 zzo38: I think GCC does but I don't know if it has the semantics you want 20:25:44 what do you think "extern static" should mean 20:26:54 1 BTC is like $700-800 now 20:26:57 not $1200,... 20:27:03 it hit $1200 like /once/ 20:27:13 GCC has static inline and extern inline 20:27:26 and the traditional GCC meaning of extern inline is the opposite of the C99 meaning :( 20:27:59 elliott_________: are you faulting my awesome math 20:29:03 someone who was a huge jerk would point out that if .017 BTC = $12 then 1.7 BTC = $1200, and i rounded the wrong way. luckily we don't have any of those here. 20:29:48 ugh i can't figure out why this is segfaulting 20:30:04 did you get a backtrace from a debugger 20:30:24 nahhhhhh just segmentation fault (core dumped) 20:30:37 i can see what call causes it but i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong, is all 20:31:05 well the debugger might help you determine that 20:31:22 like... gdb? 20:34:10 kmc: What does GCC do with it? 20:34:10 yeah 20:34:20 gdb --args ./myprog whatever args 20:34:26 then 'run' 20:34:37 when it crashes you'll be back at the gdb prompt and you can type 'bt' for a backtrace 20:34:44 you should also compile with -g and with no optimizations 20:35:01 scary 20:35:07 well i g uess i gotta learn gdb sometime 20:35:34 But what does "extern static" do in GCC if anything, and what are the GCC and C99 meanings of "extern inline"? 20:36:24 zzo38: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2006-11/msg00006.html 20:36:42 Bike: yeah. gdb is super fancy but knowing how to do the 5 most basic things is very useful 20:37:19 Bike: valgrind is also very useful for debugging memory errors in C, particularly in the cases where you *don't* get a crash or the crash happens a while after the incorrect memory use 20:37:38 well, unsurprisingly, bt shows it's two levels deep in the opaque library 20:37:42 bluh bluh 20:38:16 guess i'll stare at the api some more 20:39:49 kmc: OK, and what for "extern static"? 20:40:13 maybe I misremember and it's not allowed 20:40:40 yeah foo.c:1:1: error: multiple storage classes in declaration specifiers 20:40:43 zzo38: what do you want extern static to do 20:40:47 so what would your "extern static" mean? 20:41:52 I want it to export it but mangle it so that it doesn't interfere with other files having a function of the same name, but otherwise treat it as static 20:42:11 (And if the definition is not given, try to use an external one) 20:45:37 so if there's no definition it links to the non-mangled name, but if it is defined it exports with a mangled name? 20:46:25 No, it uses the mangled name either way. 20:46:27 So I'm in the market for a new GPU. For gaming mostly. Any recommendations wrt. Nvidia vs. AMD at this point? It doesn't matter when booting to windows, and I expect I will have to use the closed source drivers in either case under Linux for full functionality, so, which one is least shitty on Linux currently? 20:46:42 I use AMD atm, and it works reasonably 20:46:58 But it provides less performance than under windows in for example minecraft 20:47:39 Vorpal: basically the situation is that Nvidia care about their Linux drivers, AMD don't; however, the official Nvidia Linux drivers are both closed-source and excessively corporate 20:47:45 they feel like a Windows program 20:47:47 zzo38: so the mangling scheme is documented and the user is expected to sometimes declare functions using their mangled name elsewhere? 20:47:48 Hm 20:47:55 that seems awkward 20:48:05 I suspect AMD will be better for console ports in the future. 20:48:20 there's also open source drivers for the nvidia drivers, which are missing quite a lot of functionality but otherwise work fine 20:48:22 ais523, AMD is working for better open source support though, right? 20:48:31 and nvidia have been known to help them out from time to time 20:48:46 Vorpal: AMD's getting more open wrt source, but the drivers themselves are awful 20:48:57 given that the two biggest consoles are x86 machines with AMD APUs (which also means ports from consoles in the future are likely going to be more common in general) 20:49:01 zzo38: I do like the idea of a declaration that means "either a static in this compilation unit, or extern if none exists" 20:49:06 ais523, well they are pretty stable at least, they weren't a few years ago 20:49:23 but maybe that's already what you get by declaring extern and defining static? is that allowed? 20:49:24 elliott_________, yep. 20:49:43 nope, it isn't 20:49:53 anyway that could be useful to have library functions which can be overridden on a per-compilation-unit basis 20:50:03 but I don't see the point of exporting the overrides under mangled names 20:50:05 (or at all) 20:50:15 i have an amd gpu and the proprietary drivers were kind of a pain to install, but now that i've done it i can play hl2 smoothly 20:50:36 -!- itsy has left. 20:50:39 elliott_________, why the excessive underscores btw? 20:50:44 "pain to install" includes "i can't use xorg 15" 20:50:45 kmc: No you have to declare them using "extern static" elsewhere too, and then give the definition in a file. However you would need to know which file it belongs to if you want to mangle the name, so I have elsewhere wrote about a directive to do so. 20:50:52 Vorpal: e had two and I complained 20:51:06 you've probably just inspired em to add more 20:51:15 this is the most that will fit 20:51:19 Ah 20:51:22 anyway, NVidia are probably the Apple of GPUs 20:51:31 ais523, how do you mean 20:51:50 i looked at nvidia gpus but i looked at their cuda site and holy shit is it annoying 20:51:50 s/how/what/ 20:51:57 (good basis for purchases) 20:52:03 the stuff mostly works an is high-quality, but doesn't have many user-servicable parts and you're relying on the company to keep doing updates 20:52:13 So, it is a way to make something like namespaces except that there is no interference with other namespaces having the same name. 20:52:15 ais523, right, and AMD is what? 20:52:24 Not the same? 20:52:40 Vorpal: some weird generic brand name manufacturer you've never heard of but their stuff seems to work 20:52:52 there are loads of them in any electronics store 20:52:57 Heh 20:53:56 To set the record straight, while typedef indeed is ("for syntactic convenience only", C11 6.7.1p5) a storage-class specifier, and so is "static", "const" is not; it's a type qualifier instead. 20:54:51 that's because you can put consts in the middle of an expression and they change meaning depending on where they are 20:55:05 err, of a type 20:55:25 Arguably it's also because they serve different functions. 20:55:45 i just realized something. records are circular 20:56:46 Vorpal: Speaking of photography, I tried to do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RevLensMac.png today, but as I'm missing an adapter ring (the one I ordered was broken) I had to do it with a less then optimal pair of lenses, and the end results... leave something to be desired: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140208-pi2.jpg 20:58:16 fizzie, interesting, but who was speaking of photography? ;P 20:58:34 Vorpal: I'm sure we were, at some point during the preceding year or so. 20:58:39 Oh right 20:58:46 Also what is the thing on the left? 20:59:11 I think it's the surface of one of the ICs. 20:59:51 Ah 20:59:58 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140208-pi3.jpg is how close I can get with the regular lenses, and I think that closeup is from the four R15 resistors and that Samsung chip there. 21:00:07 fizzie, what is the benefit of doing this reverse lens thing? I never heard of it before 21:00:31 Vorpal: Lots of magnification without having to get a proper "macro" lens that can focus real close. 21:01:06 fizzie, Also I would suggesting using a smaller shutter perhaps? 21:01:12 The focus is *very* narrow 21:01:41 Vorpal: Stopping down the aperture kept increasing the amount of vignetting, sadly. 21:02:18 fizzie, you mean the black circle thing or normal vignetting? 21:02:25 The black circle. 21:02:27 Oh 21:02:33 That is a bummer 21:03:01 I believe it should work better with a large-aperture lens as the reversed one, but I couldn't use the one I have because of that missing adapter ring. 21:03:09 Ah 21:03:42 Also the whole contraption was something like at least half a metre long, and my tiny mini-tripod just couldn't hold it up. And it could focus only something like 1-3 cm away from the end of the reversed lens. So it wasn't exactly a practical thing. 21:03:46 Fun, though. 21:04:05 Ah 21:04:17 fizzie, yeah a larger tripod might be a good idea 21:05:51 I do have a regular tripod, but I couldn't maneuver it close enough to the TV stand I had the RPi on, because of the legs. (And when I tried to "tilt" it by making one leg longer, it started to fall over.) 21:06:00 this e-mount macro lens is $300 :/ 21:06:17 Perhaps I'll experiment more when I get a non-broken ring, it should be in the mail. 21:06:42 i should probably get an adapter and some cheaper macro lens though, but I'm such a lazy noob that I probably wouldn't use it right 21:07:05 but mushrooms have such nice details to capture 21:07:15 fizzie, can't you extend/retract the legs on your tripod? Or did that not help either? 21:07:22 btw, this reddit thread is really confusing me: http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/1xa9rj/i_have_been_writing_a_pseudoroguelike_mmorpg_with/ 21:07:28 I don't have any gamepad for use with my computer; if I did then I might design some two-player Famicom game using it, and in fact I have a idea of such a thing too: It is something like a Pokemon battle game, but there is some differences for example there is only eight element types (all balanced), and you can attack only one at a time but can switch your primary/secondary as you attack. 21:07:48 why did anyone think it was a good idea to write an MMO where you fight monsters by editing Clojure code using regexes? 21:07:58 it seems to have found an audience, anyway 21:08:08 The eight element types are: North, South, Alien, Magic, Air, Insect, Slime, Abnormal. 21:08:21 kmc: An "extension tube" (that basically just moves the lens and therefore lowers the minimum focus distance) is often a pretty cheap option, I believe. (It doesn't get to as large magnifications as a macro lens, and you need to get closer, but at least it's just an empty tube and therefore often reasonably priced.) 21:08:45 okay 21:09:24 And same type attack bonus not only gives bonus to damage but gives a bonus to priority as well. 21:09:35 kmc: Or so I've read, anyway. My father's got some M42 mount lenses and an extension tube set from the 1960s-1970s, I've been thinking of getting a $7 M42-to-EF adapter and borrowing those. 21:10:11 zzo38: there's some of that in the latest Pokémon game, in X/Y there's a Flying Pokémon that gets a priority boost on Flying moves 21:10:14 it's a really powerful ability 21:10:49 ais523: Is it overriding speed or adding to the speed, and how much? 21:11:03 "At level 0, you will only be able to match and substitute up to 10 characters, and you won't yet have access to []+*|)( and other regular expression "sigils." You can see that even with the most basic monster, it will take conscious effort to figure out useful spells to cast." 21:11:07 zzo38: it adds 1 priority 21:11:21 which is the difference between Tackle and Quick Attack, or Quick Attack and Extremespeed 21:11:52 My way is adding 2 speed rather than 1 priority, and applies to all types/attacks. 21:12:34 ais523: Wait, really? Jeeze, that is quite powerful. 21:12:37 2 speed as in speed points on the status screen (that's hardly anything)? or as in 2 stages (i.e. Agility)? 21:12:51 pikhq: yeah, very powerful, I can see why it's limited to one Pokémon 21:12:56 As in two points on the status screen 21:13:07 But, this is before stages are applied. 21:14:00 Where the speed is 0 to 245, and up to ten can be added due to bonuses so it is 255 at maximum. 21:14:11 Cripes. Hidden ability Talonflame is crazy then. 21:14:26 pikhq: What does that one do? 21:14:47 Exactly what we've been talking about. Flying moves get a priority boost. 21:14:47 why did anyone think it was a good idea to write an MMO where you fight monsters by editing Clojure code using regexes? <-- that sounds amusing for 5 minutes 21:14:57 pikhq: OK 21:18:23 Vorpal: apparently they want to commercially release this, and quite a few people are saying "that sounds interesting" despite it not being on a programming-based subreddit 21:18:31 with a monthly fee for playing 21:18:51 ais523, eeh, I'm not sure that would work out. As a free game jam thingy? Sure 21:19:01 Vorpal: neither am I 21:19:09 in a sense I /want/ to see it work out because it's so unusual 21:19:20 but I don't expect it to 21:19:47 ais523, Well yes, but I wouldn't want to play it myself. It sounds way too much like work to me these days. I have been coding much less in my spare time recently, doing other stuff instead 21:20:16 Such a thing you described with using regex to fight, seem like not so good as it is written but perhaps made as a single-player puzzle game, may be interesting. 21:20:34 brb 21:20:35 (Where, any level is fixed based on the puzzle and not based on your level) 21:26:44 Vorpal: Oh, almost forgot to mention, I also did a moon comparison thing: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140206-mooncomp.jpg 21:29:13 segfaults are so fucking frustrating 21:29:22 Bike: and yet they're pretty much the best case outcome 21:29:23 back 21:29:42 fizzie, new/old as in? 21:29:43 compared to scribbling all over ram? 21:30:03 yeah, a segfault is a memory handling mistake which happened to be caught by the hardware / OS 21:30:04 -!- yorick has joined. 21:30:15 (though it could be the consequence of another mistake which was not) 21:30:35 kmc, unless of course it segfaults in a different location every time. In which case you might have a threading issue or some sort of heap corruption or... 21:30:54 Vorpal: Old and new camera. Old picture was from 2009, and it's entirely coincidental that the moon phase is such a close match, I hadn't even looked at the old picture before taking the new one. 21:31:20 fizzie, why the colour difference? Camera or atmospheric conditions? 21:32:05 god damn it what did i do wrong 21:33:06 Vorpal: Possibly both. The old one was not terribly good when it came to white balance. (Especially the AWB, so I may have had it set to some suboptimal preset.) 21:33:38 I guess it should be recorded in the Exif data. 21:34:43 "White Balance: Daylight". Well, it's... reflected daylight? 21:35:08 fizzie, my old camera (which is my current camera that is) has a button to set the white balance from a neutral color you put in front of it 21:35:49 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february/ 21:35:52 "I was told that up until a few weeks [at time of the interview] ago, there was hardly any development environment to test changes. Most changes were done straight on the production environment. Typing this made me throw up in my mouth." 21:37:34 Vorpal: Both "old" and "new" can do custom white balance, and I used to use it quite a lot with the old one, though (somewhat disappointingly) the workflow to do so is less practical in the new one. (Old one has a menu option to take a custom-WB shot; for new one you need to take a picture, and *then* go to a menu and select that picture as source for custom WB.) 21:37:44 Wonder what a "Light Source: Fine Weather" Exif entry means. 21:38:00 I don't think there are any weather sensors in the camera. 21:38:56 Seems to be a redundant way to say "White Balance: Daylight". 21:39:09 if MtGox collapses and there's panic selling maybe I should buy some Bitcoins finally 21:39:21 they're only 20% of the bitcoin-to-real-money market now: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/ 21:40:32 :O 21:40:38 fizzie, ouch. Mine just has a button that greys out everything except the center of the display, and then when you release it, it takes a photo and uses the area in the middle as the reference 21:40:43 works really well 21:40:48 lol they call real money "fiat" 21:41:03 fiat is a reasonable name for fiat money 21:41:16 bitcoin is even more fiat than fiat, though 21:41:16 it's a technical term... 21:41:20 elliott_________: you've grown a long tail since I last saw you 21:41:33 kmc: depends who's doing the fiat-ing, I suppose 21:41:34 kmc: depends on the definition, I think 21:41:42 yeah but by at least one of the common definitions 21:41:50 Vorpal: That's approximately how it worked in the old one, though you navigated a menu to get there. (Also you could select one out of two slots to save the custom balance as.) 21:42:03 if you make that definition broad enough, you could shove gold into the fiat designation too 21:42:06 :D 21:42:09 yes 21:42:10 (which I love to do, honestly) 21:43:15 kmc: if you decide to buy and want to do it OTC with someone, let me know and I can probably help you find a counterparty (might end up being cheaper with less hassle than an exchange) 21:43:15 copumpkin, also cars. *hides* 21:43:18 aside from industrial uses, it depends on whether you think the human aesthetic / cultural appreciation of gold is more "real" than the value of dollars 21:43:24 copumpkin: haha okay 21:43:53 I don't even charge fees! >_> 21:44:12 well you can't charge much fee as an OTC matchmaker who doesn't assume counterparty risk ;P 21:44:19 lol 21:44:33 hey, I can set you up with the most trustworthy people in the community! what's not to love! 21:44:36 true 21:44:39 >_< 21:44:39 all i see is fire and void 21:44:44 but I'm kidding, of course :P 21:45:16 I've also been known to escrow for people to do that sort of stuff 21:45:19 do OTC BTC-USD transactions typically happen through escrow? 21:45:21 yeah 21:45:26 depends 21:45:38 if you like getting scammed, go for an unauthenticated stranger 21:45:44 (lots of people do that) 21:46:11 the more savvy tend to just go with reputable people and the less reputable of the pair sends first 21:46:16 heh 21:46:17 and even more savvy will go with escrow 21:46:56 there should be some sort of cryptographically sound way to exchange arbitrary cryptocoins with each other even if they're on different chains 21:48:14 USD isn't a cryptocurrency 21:48:29 I know 21:48:40 credit cards are, though 21:48:45 not a very good cryptocurrency, though 21:49:22 i googled for an opencl irc channel and it's all bitcoin mining 21:49:40 ;_; 21:50:03 ais523: oh? 21:50:10 how would it work 21:50:44 I have no idea, but I guess I have a "this should be cryptographically possible" sense that's comparable to my "this should be TC" sense 21:50:47 i.e. not 100% reliable 21:50:59 have y'all played flappy bird? 21:51:15 NO WHAT IS THAT AND WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT IT 21:51:40 ridiculously hard game 21:51:40 kmc: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/02/the-squalid-grace-of-flappy-bird/283526/ 21:51:43 hth 21:51:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-nzHy2DdU 21:51:50 not hard in an interesting way 21:52:24 the trick is to read this article or watch a video or whatever and think "ok then, fuck this" and go back to something practical like making your program segfault a hundred times 21:53:24 or read an IRC message 21:53:36 you're a prodigy 21:56:54 http://www.metalair.org/decentralised-cryptocurrency-exchange/ is trying to do it but they won't share their design work so far 21:58:46 kmc: re your original bitcoin link, the hilarious thing is the way that people keep on trying to confirm/deny the story via reference to hitherto unmentioned third party X, and third party X turns up to confirm that their involvement in it is genuine 21:58:55 it's like the entire community are reading that reddit thread 21:58:59 heh true 21:58:59 which is actually pretty believable 22:00:00 the real useful post is gmaxwell's contribution 22:00:02 not that protest thing 22:00:06 well, that might be useful too 22:00:09 ais523, which link was that? 22:00:16 I was mostly amused by the horror story of interviewing there 22:00:24 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x93tf/some_irc_chatter_about_what_is_going_on_at_mtgox/cf99yac 22:00:35 err, not the one copumpkin linked 22:00:51 it's about 1 and a half screenfuls ago on my screen, kmc linked it 22:00:53 this one, http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february/ 22:00:57 but read mine too 22:01:10 Ah 22:06:40 ais523: so one simple approach is that the two parties take turns exchanging small quantities of money until the whole transfer is consummated 22:08:12 this will be pretty slow with existing cryptocurrencies 22:10:35 I know someone developed a bitcoin mixer that doesn't require any of the participants to trust any of the others 22:10:41 but that might require protocol adpatations 22:10:43 *adaptations 22:13:13 zerocoin was originally designed as that, yeah, and it does require protocol changes 22:13:26 ah right 22:13:39 now it's going to be a separate currency because in the words of the designer, "If people will put money into Dogecoin, they’ll put it into anything" 22:13:52 so it's a new cryptocurrency with true anonymity 22:13:54 the designer is probably correct there 22:14:17 I also know about a Bitcoin mixer that ran for a while using RSA blind signing 22:14:46 so you still trust the central party not to take your money, but they can't reveal which coins were exchanged for which, even under torture / subpoena 22:15:12 oh, btw, for everyone who was wondering why imgur didn't work on my computer no matter which browser I was using, and continued to not work even when I accessed the internet from a hotel in France 22:15:26 I eventually discovered it was due to an entry I'd added in the hosts file that had gone out of date 22:15:32 and here's another design http://blog.ezyang.com/2012/07/secure-multiparty-bitcoin-anonymization/ 22:15:35 that's somewhere to check next time 22:16:12 must have been back when the DNS was being buggy 22:16:38 Are you able to make some more Attribute Zone levels if I have made up the program? 22:26:32 that ponzi.io is doing pretty well 22:26:44 back in the day we had bitcoinduit which worked the same way 22:29:08 * copumpkin sends in 10000 coins 23:18:45 after much wailing and mashing of teeth i have written a gpgpu program 23:19:01 hooray 23:19:30 the last time I did that was in 2007, back when you still had to pretend that your data represented red, green, blue values in a texture 23:19:46 pretty sure this means i'm basically a bitcoin trillionaire already 23:19:53 itym dogecoin 23:20:30 isn't it called "digging" or something with dogecoin 23:26:35 yeah 23:38:11 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:39:33 I wonder how WebCL is going.. 23:40:20 what, so you can mine from firefox? 23:40:59 hopefully the cryptocoin craze will lead to actual useful developments in GPGPU technology 23:41:12 um, no 23:41:21 So I can play with the GPU from JS 23:41:46 ...for purposes other than mining *coins 23:41:52 like what 23:42:08 raytracing or something 23:42:15 games that run entirely on the GPU? 23:42:23 you could have massively parallel control of thousands of characters 23:42:30 it'd be good for collision processing too 23:42:30 general purpose game processing unit 23:42:39 the hard part would be screen transitions 23:59:18 -!- tromp_ has joined. 2014-02-09: 00:12:59 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:15:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:15:42 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:18:36 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:19:56 I have idea about a CPU design that has one external pin to tell whether to use microcode ROM or microcode RAM, which contains VLIW instructions, and the cache is in the same microcode RAM. 00:22:24 How well would it work? 00:23:02 (It does mean you can have self-modifying microcodes!!) 00:23:54 zzo38: instead of an internal pin, why not have a register that determines that? 00:23:58 *external pin 00:24:09 that way you could change it using software control 00:24:19 Yes it could be a register 00:25:31 Such register could also control supervisor/user microcode mode; however such thing could also be a output pin, so that the components can be wired for supervisor/user mode, too. 00:26:36 And, of course, need a external reset signal to reselect ROM mode and reset some of the other registers too. 00:27:13 Are any existing designs doing anything similar? 00:28:19 possibly, but I don't know of one 00:31:30 If internal condition flags are also part of the microcode program counter, and the VLIW includes each instruction has part of a address of next instruction, then you don't need branch instructions, especially if self-modifying codes are possible. You could also have multicore VLIW. 00:33:19 ais523: i have a hunch you could merge the header and the 523 padding by making more copies of the header instead... 00:33:57 oerjan: oh, that would work for the after-padding, there's no actual reason to use a whole number of copies of the header 00:34:10 (that's me assuming the language was simpler than it was, because I was in tarpit mode) 00:34:18 oh, wait, /header/ 00:34:33 yeah, you could make a bunch of copies of the header, and then use a larger repeat count on the alphabet 00:34:52 to fill the before-padding with header copies and after-padding with stray bits of alphabet 00:35:08 why a larger repeat count? 00:35:14 then you could remove the after-padding altogether, actually, because its only purpose is for somewhere to put the unused bits of alphabet 00:35:16 oh, no, I'm wrong 00:35:28 you can't generate fractional repeats with resplicate 00:35:31 so the after-padding needs to stay 00:35:50 i am referring to the initial padding 00:36:18 yep 00:36:25 this doesn't give a clear way to remove the final padding 00:36:33 and I'm tired 00:39:49 so may not make much sense 00:41:09 well it's a little subtle anyway, because the number of 523's in the initial padding seems to be odd, but i _think_ removing the 3 integers that generate them will turn the necessary padding even so the header can be used 00:41:40 what's interesting is if it's possible to prove resplicate TC even with no misaligned copies (i.e. any sequence of numbers that's copied with a copy count other than 0 must have existed in the original program, and must have all been copied into the program in one block) 00:42:12 I think you might be able to do it using two layers of escaping 00:44:07 oh wait my idea has trouble, removing those will make the number of integers per rule potentially odd 00:44:18 that's not a problem in this construction 00:44:24 it always knows where the IP is anyway 00:45:12 it's a problem for my "replace 523's by header" construction, because that requires that the length of total initial padding always be even 00:45:51 non-alphabet padding, that is 00:58:40 ais523: it seems hard to handle non-misaligned copies in a single pass through the queue 00:58:58 oerjan: yeah, I think I'd do two passes 00:59:24 which means every tag command becomes O(n) in the whole queue length 01:00:12 actually, the way I was going to do it avoids that issue, but leads to problems if you have an odd number of tag commands in the queue at any major iteration 01:00:14 ais523: I think games are a much bigger driver for GPUs and game technology than cryptocoins... 01:00:28 wat 01:00:38 kmc: games mostly don't care about GPGPU stuff, though, apart from stuff like PhysX 01:00:48 uh 01:00:52 I don't think that's true 01:01:07 although the line between GPGPU and just regular old graphics processing is pretty blurred nowadays 01:01:54 oerjan: you get each command to produced escaped output, then the entire queue unescapes at once into a new unescaped queue 01:02:09 the problem being that you then have to be able to skip over commands without knowing whether they're escaped or not 01:02:28 it might be possible to make escaped and unescaped commands the same length though 01:02:32 using padding 01:03:07 kmc: iunno, i mean i don't think Valve needs to care about OpenCL to not make half life 3 01:13:51 Shaders are a pretty common thing in games anymore. 01:14:05 Is it possible to download a SQLite database of chess games? 01:14:12 is there a typo in there pikhq? 01:14:24 fungots are a pretty common thing in games 01:14:24 kmc: not really. only looking at the new dilbert.com rejecting linux typing tutors out there for other languages too 01:14:49 Bike: I don't see a typo. 01:14:50 speaking of dilbert http://www.dilbert.com/2014-02-07/ 01:15:04 pikhq: i just didn't expect "anymore" without a negative 01:15:20 anyway doesn't GL handle shaders 01:15:27 maybe i should look at glsl again. as if i have any reason to 01:15:28 That's perfectly mundane English. 01:15:34 yeah, just unexpected. 01:15:37 Eh. *shrug* 01:16:00 hey did you all see this paper on x86 shellcode which looks like valid English text? http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~sam/ccs243-mason.pdf 01:16:17 when was it published? i read one in like, 2011 or some shit 01:16:26 pikhq: I don't consider pixel/vertex/geometry shaders to be GPGPU because they only really make sense for specific purposes in graphics rendering 01:16:31 what kind of thing goes into a shader anyway. i thought shade was fairly straightforward 01:16:36 2009. probably this one then 01:16:38 ais523: Fair enough. 01:16:39 i mean, insofar as any kind of optics is 01:16:41 as was seen when people tried to use them for non-graphics stuff 01:16:52 "so, not straightforward, bike" 01:16:56 Bike: "shader" has somehow become the name for "arbitrary program which a GPU runs for each pixel/vertex" 01:17:04 really. odd. 01:17:09 so what kinds of programs are there? 01:17:17 Bike: a shader (or one kind of shader, anyway) gets called for every pixel in a polygon and computes an arbitrary function for what the color should be at that pixel 01:17:23 presumably because traditionally what you're doing is loading a texture and applying lighting effects to it 01:17:34 which can quite sensibly be described as "shading" 01:17:34 it knows the position in 3D space, the normal at that point, it can access various textures, can do matrix math, etc. 01:17:38 i know a guy who works on turbulence, i really shouldn't be so blase about optics 01:17:39 but really you can do pretty much anything 01:17:46 well i mean. what do people actually do with it. 01:17:53 so the original use is to model all kinds of different surface textures 01:18:01 you can make something look bumpy without having a bunch of triangles for every bump 01:18:13 vertex shaders are cheap compared to pixel shaders 01:18:15 think i've heard of that... 01:18:21 because there are way more pixels onscreen than vertices 01:18:26 In emulator-land it's coming to be pretty popular for applying effects to the rendered frame. 01:18:36 yes, they're also great for "full-screen" video effects 01:18:45 colorspace conversion, blur, HDR rendering, whatever 01:19:34 Bike: a key part of doing fancy things with shaders is that you can render scenes to a texture 01:19:46 Like mirrors? 01:19:53 that's one application yeah 01:20:06 but more generally, it lets you capture the output of the gfx pipeline and use it later in another pipeline 01:20:11 And then you'd want to add effects if it's a dirty mirror or something 01:20:13 and that was key to the first GPGPU stuff too 01:20:34 I wrote a GPGPU "particle simulator" where every (r,g,b) pixel in a texture is actually an (x,y,z) coordinate of a particle 01:20:39 so the "texture" would just look like noise 01:20:48 but you have a shader that updates these positions and writes it to another "texture" 01:21:01 and another shader that draws the particles to the screen by reading from this "texture" 01:21:58 nasty 01:22:00 in web browsers you render groups of HTML elements to textures and then composite them together 01:22:08 this allows things like CSS transforms to happen smoothly 01:22:19 you don't re-render the element, you just alter its position, rotation, etc. in compositing 01:22:32 -!- newsham_ has joined. 01:22:58 in fact the compositor also renders into textures; it renders the page into a set of 512x512 tiles or so 01:23:05 which enables fast scrolling 01:23:14 how much video memory do GPUs normally have nowadays? 01:23:18 because you can keep some of the tiles off the edge of the screen around in memory 01:23:29 when I learned programming, you had to be careful not to waste it, but I imagine that isn't really an issue now 01:23:35 ais523: 1 to 8 gigs, depending on how cheap/not cheap it is. 01:23:39 on mobile browsers when you scroll off of what's rendered you see a grey or checkerboard area, which then fills in 01:23:49 err, yeah, that's not really an issue 01:23:57 Much less for integrated GPUs though. 01:24:11 You might end up having a carved-off 256MB chunk instead there. 01:24:33 I thought these days integrated GPUs (integrated to CPU, not motherboard) would use all available RAM, by cooperating with the OS 01:24:42 Sadly no. 01:24:45 and this also means CPU-GPU transfers can be really fast 01:24:47 aw 01:24:51 well that's how the PS4 works anyway ;P 01:24:55 -!- nys has joined. 01:25:04 it has a single chunk of GDDR5 for CPU and GPU 01:27:05 CPU-GPU transfers are normally really slow (by memory standards), but I've heard the PS4 is an exception to that 01:27:20 Yes, the PS4 doesn't have seperate memory. 01:27:44 I know that in SDL2, if you're planning to update a texture frequently, you have to warn the library in advance (although I'm not entirely sure what it changes in response to the warning) 01:29:44 uff, what's the printf directive to get a ulong out 01:29:58 %lu 01:30:00 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 01:30:02 thx 01:30:19 incidentally, you can write it as "long unsigned" even outside printf 01:30:23 which helps to remember the directive 01:30:43 cool 01:30:52 printf clearly can't use %ul because that would be ambiguous, so it went for the next-best option 01:31:08 I just remember that 'u' is a base "conversion specifier" and all modifiers come before the specifier 01:31:11 can you do "int unsigned" 01:31:19 Bike: yep 01:31:21 Pretty sure yes. 01:31:28 anyawy so my GPU has... 1949302784 bytes global memory 01:31:37 anyway* 01:33:51 and 32768 per unit. seems pretty beefy 01:37:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:48:54 so what does your program do Bike? 01:51:45 the test one just elementwise squares a vector 01:51:56 i was going to do matrix multiplication but i kept thinking of half-baked optimizations >_> 01:52:07 there are fancy algos for that aren't there 01:52:24 `run uname -a 01:52:25 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 01:52:41 yeah. i have an arxiv paper on mediocre-but-useful sparse matrix formats i've yet to read v_v 02:04:37 `cdecl declare x as pointer to array 5 of int 02:04:38 int (*x)[5] 02:04:43 `cdecl explain int (*x)[5] 02:04:43 declare x as pointer to array 5 of int 02:05:30 `cdecl explain int x[static 5] 02:05:31 syntax error 02:05:33 boo 02:06:03 hm HackEgo's repository browser is now not just out of date, but gone 02:06:20 yeah :/ 02:06:33 `help 02:06:34 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:06:36 kmc: wait, can you declare an int[] like that, not as a parameter 02:07:00 no 02:07:08 foo.c:1:5: error: static or type qualifiers in non-parameter array declarator 02:07:43 pikhq: what does int x[volatile 5] mean? 02:09:06 does cdecl do things besides explain? 02:09:11 `cdecl help 02:09:12 ​ [] means optional; {} means 1 or more; <> means defined elsewhere \ commands are separated by ';' and newlines \ command: \ declare as \ cast into \ explain \ set or set options \ help, ? \ quit or exit \ english: \ function [( )] returning 02:09:32 the main ones are "define" and "explain" 02:09:45 there's also "cast" 02:09:53 `cdecl cast int into unsigned int 02:09:53 `cdecl cast x into pointer to array 5 of char 02:09:53 syntax error 02:09:53 ​(char (*)[5])x 02:09:54 kmc: Volatile array of 5 elements. 02:09:58 go me 02:10:18 oh, i misinterpreted 02:10:27 pikhq: so it's the same as volatile int x[5] ? 02:10:46 or does an array being volatile mean something different from all its elements being volatile? 02:10:57 `cdecl cast fucker[3] into pointer to function of void returning int 02:10:57 syntax error 02:11:01 I think in an argument it'd be equivalent to "int * volatile x". 02:11:04 `cdecl cast fucker[3] into unsigned int 02:11:04 syntax error 02:11:09 is there no hope? 02:11:11 Bike: I think it only takes a name for the first argument, not an expression 02:11:12 `cdecl cast fucker into unsigned int 02:11:13 ​(unsigned int)fucker 02:11:16 sux 02:11:22 `cdecl cast fucker into pointer to function of void returning int 02:11:23 syntax error 02:11:31 well they probably don't want to include an expression grammar as well 02:11:34 i guess that's probably not a good way to talk about functions 02:11:48 `cdecl cast fucker into pointer to function ( ) returning int 02:11:49 ​(int (*)())fucker 02:11:52 `cdecl explain int x[volatile 5] 02:11:53 syntax error 02:11:54 `cdecl cast fucker into pointer to function ( void ) returning int 02:11:54 ​(int (*)(void ))fucker 02:11:57 :( 02:12:12 without the void it's uh, it doesn't say anything about what the function takes, right? 02:12:21 pikhq: also, is there any use of "pointer to array" types? 02:12:35 such as int (*x)[5] 02:14:26 i can think of reasons you might write &x when x is an array, but are there reasons to declare such variables / parameters? 02:17:49 why did anyone think it was a good idea to write an MMO where you fight monsters by editing Clojure code using regexes? <-- and how come they're not in this channel? 02:20:10 kmc: i guess if you want a 2d array that's dynamic in the first dimension? 02:20:56 I'm not really sure of the uses for those types in general. 02:21:04 Kinda useful when passing around VLAs though. 02:21:25 int (*x)[y][z] for instance? 02:22:33 `gccrun int x[5]; int (*y)[5]; y = &x; printf("%p %p %p\n", x, &x, y); 02:22:34 0x7fbfcf6c60 0x7fbfcf6c60 0x7fbfcf6c60 02:23:17 VLAs considered harmful 02:28:20 `cdecl explain int (*x)[2][3] 02:28:21 declare x as pointer to array 2 of array 3 of int 02:29:10 -!- newsham_ has changed nick to newsham. 02:29:41 How well do you know about compiler optimizations? 02:30:57 medium well 02:31:06 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:31:26 I want your opinions on some kind of Z-machine intermediate codes (for version 5, 7, and 8) which is partially described here: http://sprunge.us/PNXL and there is also seven "special branch targets" which are (number in parentheses indicates number of arguments): RESTART(0), RESTORED(0), RETURN(1), QUIT(0), TAILCALL(8), THROW(2), and UNDEFINED(0). 02:31:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:33:23 fungotspeed you! black emperor 02:33:23 kmc: i was waiting to hear if anyone is interested 02:33:50 kmc: What does it mean? 02:33:59 very little 02:36:28 `gccrun int x[5]; int (*y)[5]; y = &x; printf("%p %p %p %p\n", x, &x, y, &y); 02:36:29 0x7fbfd28c60 0x7fbfd28c60 0x7fbfd28c60 0x7fbfd28c58 02:41:31 Do you understand my stuff about this compiler optimizations stuff? How could such optimization be improve? 02:42:04 motherfungot=redeemer 02:42:05 kmc: but did you try it, you'll just push it on. this individual processing of the url manually if they want to 02:42:11 zzo38: sorry, I don't have the time to look into it now 02:42:16 OK 02:42:43 The file linked is actually just two C enumerations 02:43:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:43:14 Although I can explain it is being done with basic blocks and register forwarding format 02:46:54 Which is a kind of single static assignment without phi nodes 02:47:47 Instead, each basic block takes zero or more arguments and cannot use registers from other basic blocks at all 02:49:29 I don't know if such a thing is ever done, but someone described as being combining single static assignment with continuation passing, and that it has some advantages and some disadvantages. 02:51:35 I can see how this is the case. 02:52:40 What can you see about this kind of idea? 02:54:33 lift your skinny fungots like antennas to heaven 02:54:33 kmc: are people here going to participate too? heh, do you? :) 02:55:50 What antenna do you mean, the TV antenna, the radio antenna, or the antennas on your body? (I only have the second one) 02:56:10 but do you have a large barge with a radio antenna on it that you can charge up and discharge? 02:56:25 No, I have no such things 02:56:30 you should get one 02:56:38 I have no use for such a thing 02:56:40 you could use it for high frequency active auroral research 02:56:54 if you are far north enough 02:59:25 How far is enough? 03:00:22 56° apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura_Ionospheric_Heating_Facility 03:02:17 i don't really understand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_radiated_power 03:03:22 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:04:30 -!- CADD_ has joined. 03:04:52 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:29:20 I recorded my coordinates in Astrolog configuration file, so that is how I refer to and now I know, I am not quite far enough. 03:29:52 i see 03:29:57 what are your coördinates? 03:30:25 I don't want to say, but presumably you could figure out approximately by yourself, by using my IP address 03:32:21 last time i checked my IP address it geolocated to the wrong state. 03:33:22 i remember a system of coördinates which used short alphanumeric strings, which could be as long as the desired precision requires 03:33:30 but i don't remember what it's called 03:33:44 i think http://www.mapcode.com/ is similar but the thing I remember didn't require a country prefix 03:34:28 but i see there are "international mapcodes" too 03:34:55 * kmc is at California 9QF.7C 03:35:27 Does bash have command resembling the F8 command in Windows (which is, autocompletion based on command history)? If so, what is it? 03:36:20 control-r 03:36:33 kind of 03:37:28 creepercoin shoutingcoin wrongfulcoin waivercoin constipatingcoin aciditycoin 03:38:10 OK, I tried it now I can see what it does. 03:40:19 does it do what you wanted? 03:40:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:41:50 Kind of, like you said. 03:41:57 * pikhq is at Missouri RC.LNJ or so. 03:42:06 * pikhq also likes that those are relatively short. 03:47:19 `cdecl declare fungot as pointer to struct fungot 03:47:19 struct fungot *fungot 03:47:41 fungot: why no fungot 03:48:59 oh fungot won't respond to the same nick more than n times in a row, iirc 04:00:20 fungot, listen to fungotting kmc. 04:00:20 pikhq: must convince cow-orkers that i need to rewrite the section on folding enumerators in srfi 44, on the blocking variant. roll over laugh floor. 04:00:57 `cdecl declare fungot as pointer to struct fungot 04:00:57 kmc: so fiz's free? oh. and is not mentally stimulating! 04:00:57 struct fungot *fungot 04:01:06 but fungot knows not to listen to HackEgo 04:01:06 kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around 04:01:16 i wish i had more access to academic papers 04:01:25 i wish i had access to a box full of tnt to throw around 04:01:46 `addquote kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around 04:01:46 kmc: please elaborate. clog's back. :_) ( eval x)) 04:01:48 1168) kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around 04:02:47 @ask ais523 do you know a place where I can find the ruleset for the current 'simplest' universal tag system for free? 04:02:47 Consider it noted. 04:02:54 * copumpkin just made some awesome chicken tenders 04:02:58 om nom nom 04:05:45 * quintopia specifies a copumpkin-complete penrose tiling 04:11:52 I should attempt to make SRFI-72-like hygiene in Racket 04:12:44 employees must wash hands before returning to evaluator 04:13:17 Misread that as elevator 04:15:36 also a good idea 04:17:52 @tell tswett regarding names that have their own names, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddocks'_Eyes#Naming 04:17:53 Consider it noted. 04:20:41 why is gcc using %rip-relative addressing even in a static binary? 04:20:56 perhaps it results in shorter instructions 04:29:59 seems to be the case here (by a grand total of one byte) 04:36:10 because the ModRM byte for an absolute address is followed by a SIB byte but the ModRM byte for a %rip relative address is not 04:36:18 goooooooooooooooood times 04:38:17 Return to Ravnica has a pretty island 04:38:18 http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=289316 04:44:36 `run echo 48c7042500004000ffffffff | xxd -r -p | udcli -64 04:44:36 0000000000000000 48c7042500004000 mov qword [0x400000], 0xffffffffffffffff \ -ffffffff 04:44:43 `run echo 48c70500004000ffffffff | xxd -r -p | udcli -64 04:44:44 0000000000000000 48c70500004000ff mov qword [rip+0x400000], 0xffffffffffffffff \ -ffffff 04:46:25 `run <<<48c70500004000ffffffff xxd -r -p | udcli -64 04:46:26 0000000000000000 48c70500004000ff mov qword [rip+0x400000], 0xffffffffffffffff \ -ffffff 04:57:10 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 05:03:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:10:58 -!- Bike has joined. 05:17:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:47:14 -!- Bike has joined. 05:48:35 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:55:06 TIL the mascot for GDB is an archerfish, known for their ability to shoot down bugs by spitting water 05:55:09 https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/mascot/ 05:55:49 archerfish are cool as hell. you know they exploit fluid dynamics to give the spit enough momentum 05:55:53 how? 05:56:42 http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/11/archerfish-physics/ 05:56:52 pretty sure that links the paper 05:57:43 http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2013/11/archerfish-spitting-2.gif pew pew 05:59:23 yeah, there it is http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0047867 06:00:58 wow 06:01:35 that kind of "oh damn that's pretty clever i didn't even know that was possible" thing kinda works for gdb too, eh 06:02:23 heh 06:04:47 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:16:34 -!- augur has joined. 06:17:15 kmc: does the linux kernel have garbage collection on some resources? i thought it did but i'm blanking 06:22:31 unix sockets 06:23:34 since you can send a socket through a socket and it might sit in a kernel buffer forever 06:24:38 -!- loogie has joined. 06:24:41 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v3.12/net/unix/garbage.c 06:25:08 probably there are lots of others http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=garbage+collect 06:26:13 -!- loogie has left ("Leaving"). 06:26:20 thanks 06:27:49 man, look at all these 06:28:50 does the "mov is Turing-complete" paper address the issue that x86 isn't actually turing complete due to finite memory? 06:29:01 it doesn't seem to 06:29:10 generalized 86 06:31:29 hm, they're mostly filesystems 06:33:23 If the cache is disabled you could make a memory-mapped port to allow access to unbounded memory? 06:35:28 yeah but that's not very meaningful 06:35:39 because a finite state machine is also turing-complete if you give it a port to access unbounded memory 06:36:34 But do finite state machines have ports? 06:36:54 not exactly but you see what i'm getting at? 06:36:56 A CPU doesn't even have external memory if none is added to it! 06:37:14 But yes I can see what you are saying nevertheless. 06:37:18 hooray 06:37:22 fungot: do you see what i'm saying? 06:37:22 kmc: that is as direct as c programs " program"? the real one that i reported seems to be built over the regular scheme mode with slime48, or you can 06:38:31 zzo38: you don't talk to fungot do you? 06:39:08 kmc: I don't generally need to do so. 07:11:15 -!- samebchase has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:12:04 -!- samebchase has joined. 07:29:48 “Fan-made patches fix a notorious bug which results in the game always resetting to the easiest difficulty level [...]. This glitch was not noticed by MicroProse and was not fixed in the official patches, resulting in the very high difficulty of the sequel due to many complaints from veteran players who believed that the original game was still too easy even on seemingly higher levels.” 07:30:11 (... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Terror_from_the_Deep#Reception ) 07:38:52 Maybe someone want a very high difficulty though. 08:25:44 -!- conehead has joined. 08:27:31 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:51:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:51:58 Nice fish drawings in that Wired article. 08:57:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 09:02:45 -!- CADD_ has joined. 09:03:11 What episode of ST:TNG should I watch? 09:03:47 ^"Darkcoin uses an algorithm called X11. Hence name because it uses 11 different hashing algorithms to solve a block. The algorithms are Blake, BMW, Groestl, JH, Keccak, Skein, Luffa, Cubehash, Shavite, SIMD, and Echo." 09:04:04 Sgeo: Genesis 09:04:38 Bike: 11 times as secure 09:05:06 it's the first fully anonymous cryptocurrency 09:05:44 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 09:32:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:58:24 -!- conehead__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:00:11 -!- conehead__ has joined. 10:04:30 "class1.mid" 10:04:37 Totally a comprehensible name 10:04:57 class2.mid... now I'm confused, it doesn't sound like classical music 10:05:12 Well, the instruments don't sound classical, the melody kind of does 10:08:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:37:02 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:38:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:49:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:49:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 10:49:50 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:17:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:20:01 I may be forced to try a Clozure CL implementation of Braintrust 11:22:38 SBCL won 11:22:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:22:41 SBCL won't cut it 11:25:10 x_x 11:26:37 As far as I know, ccl:save-application doesn't die, whereas sb-ext:save-application-and-die does die 11:27:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:30:53 -!- yorick has joined. 11:46:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:07:59 I've put on simple wiki articles about the three functions defined by Smullyan. 12:08:46 Feel free to categorize them if you're good in categorizing obfu-languages. Also, prove stuff about them. Eg. I'd like to know whether it's algorithmically decidable whether a number is immortal in McCulloch's second machine. 12:13:14 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:15:14 "Please enjoy the movement in relaxedly bus." 12:15:35 (Trying to Google Translate here.) 12:15:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:15:38 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:20:03 "The women-only space-women-only vehicle, can I ride children (boy)?" 12:34:18 A pity. I thought that Data.Sequence would be a good fit for the McCulloch thing, but it lacks a constant time reversal operation ... 12:42:39 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Quit: Tritonio1). 13:03:41 -!- Slereah_ has changed nick to dn4bot. 13:03:56 -!- dn4bot has changed nick to Slereah. 13:04:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:17:04 Help I've been trying to actually write programs in Agda 13:20:28 -!- yubisaylozada has joined. 13:33:39 yubisaylozada: please don't /msg random people like that 13:37:13 -!- CADD_ has joined. 13:37:14 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 13:41:39 :P 13:42:32 .l. 13:42:36 -!- elliott_________ has quit (Changing host). 13:42:37 -!- elliott_________ has joined. 13:42:44 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott_________. 13:42:48 -!- elliott_________ has kicked yubisaylozada yubisaylozada. 13:42:50 -!- elliott_________ has set channel mode: -o elliott_________. 13:46:55 -!- nys has joined. 13:57:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:58:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:20:27 elliott_________: _______HI!_______ 15:02:15 int-e: that should be no problem, you can define a better tree structure to implement this 15:25:55 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:34:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:38:14 does the esolang wiki talk about non-deterministic but turing-complete languages like sokoban or super mario? 15:40:15 b_jonas: those aren't non-deterministic, the sense in which they're TC involves generalizing them to an infinite repeating pattern and treating it as a constraint-solving exercise 15:40:20 as in, the interp tries to find a solution 15:40:24 no nondeterminism there 15:41:27 quintopia: I don't know where to find a simple universal tag system; it might be possible to find Minsky's turing machine → tag system compiler, though, and I think there's a universal (2,19) turing machine floating around somewhere 15:41:35 -!- CADD_ has joined. 15:41:36 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:42:00 also a (2,5) with a repeating initial condition (found by Stephen Wolfram, but his proof it's TC is wrong), and a (2,3) with a really complex initial condition (I think we all know about that one) 15:42:27 ais523: ok, maybe not turing-complete 15:42:50 it does have a category for nondeterministic languages 15:43:31 the useful distinctions for those are "can halt, even with probability 0" versus "never halts", and "halts with probability 1" versus "never halts" 15:43:36 but they are non-deterministic because the player has a choice of where to move 15:43:51 b_jonas: no, not when viewed as /languages/ 15:43:58 (well, usually) 15:44:09 from the language point of view, the player is the interp, the level is the program 15:44:14 and the interp's job is to act optimally 15:44:16 ok 15:44:32 perhaps by trying all possibilities in parallel 15:44:55 ais523: in my view, the level is the program, the video game console and the rom other than the level is the interpreter, and the player is the nondeterminism. 15:44:56 I guess it's nondeterministic in that sense 15:45:15 b_jonas: that's just taking input 15:45:46 ais523: right, these two views are why NP is defined in two ways: 15:46:02 I say it's defined by a nondeterministic turing machine, you're sayuing it's defined by a turing machien that takes hints 15:46:14 there are loads of definitions of NP 15:46:19 sure 15:46:35 anyway, do you think it would make sense if I created some entries with links for these? 15:46:39 on the esolang wiki 15:46:58 links and short descriptions 15:46:59 one I like involves a trusted P-time machine, and a potentially malicious TC oracle 15:47:27 the combination is guaranteed to say "false" if the statement is actually false (no matter what the oracle does), and "true" if the statement is true /and/ the oracle is trustworthy 15:47:45 ah, that reminds me of something I want to ask on the other channel 15:47:57 "the other channel"? 15:48:53 I think that if you're talking about TCness/PSPACE-completeness/whatever of computer games, the best option would just be one page listing all of them and linking to the existing results 15:48:57 but Wikipedia already has one of those 15:54:36 ais523: when you compiled that collatz system to resplicate, how long was it and what was the largest value? 15:55:06 quintopia: it's not very long at all 15:55:57 84 numbers per element in the initial queue, the largest number used is 678 16:08:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:33:41 oh, you proved Resplicate turing-complete? nice 17:05:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:40:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:22:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:18 -!- augur has joined. 19:25:31 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:25:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No route to host). 19:35:50 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:00:27 fungots fall on fungot falls 20:00:57 good afternoon, fungot 20:00:57 shachaf: why the switch, i got it all. what i don't understand what you were explaining it, but i 20:03:21 * int-e feels the same about fungot, sometimes. 20:03:21 int-e: i just want to know enough about it. 20:03:42 the dead fungot blues 20:03:42 kmc: esobot disappeared, i mean. eh. 20:08:04 good canadian fungot evening 20:08:04 FireFly: yeah i guess it supports everything but the lowest level 20:08:26 Yeah, canadians aren't the lowest of them all.. only nearly so 20:09:59 fungot♯ 20:10:00 kmc: concrete examples? :p i like pianos. and the premise may very well be an explicitly typed program. the second argument 20:12:30 "The back of the EP contains a diagram with instructions in Italian on how to make a molotov cocktail." 20:16:55 -!- kmc has set topic: fungots fall on fungot falls | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 20:21:26 -!- evalj has joined. 20:24:23 fungot: What are you talking about there? 20:24:24 fizzie: sneakers, isn't it? from lear to fnord or re-compile foo and bar 20:30:42 -!- tynyankoalex has joined. 20:37:52 fungot: from lear to leviathan? 20:37:52 olsner: gama chunks don't alter the rgb of each color and publish those as well. 20:39:05 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:39:55 fungot: Well, that's good. Imagine what would happen if they did. 20:39:55 fizzie: i think i've got this shell running irssi and it notifies me about new messages when i come to it. do it in 20:43:30 I didn't know fungot used irssi for IRCing 20:43:30 FireFly: i don't really 20:43:31 -!- tynyankoalex has quit (K-Lined). 20:43:35 o.h 20:43:43 s/\.h/h./ 20:46:19 I guess irssi's just for message notification. Sounds like you have an overly complicated setup there, fungot. 20:46:19 fizzie: would you let me have a look at 20:47:04 fungot: I think it's better to let fizzie take care of setting up your environment 20:47:04 FireFly: in my quantifier language im going to bed. i am not a sophisticated irc user ( anymore). 20:47:21 so self-deprecating 21:02:46 Oh, so that's what the F# stands for. 21:03:08 fungot alpaca infinity 21:03:08 monotone: go the hell to write generators with call/ ec is probably sufficient for writing one of those 21:30:37 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 21:36:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:42:51 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:58 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 22:16:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:16:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:17:01 -!- conehead has joined. 22:20:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:22:48 Is addition on floats associative? 22:23:43 Taneb: no 22:23:45 no 22:24:02 1 + -1 + 1e-40 22:24:03 for instance 22:24:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:24:51 Thanks 22:25:25 you have some other rules, like ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u)) = u+v, which i'm sure is totally helpful 22:27:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:28:38 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds). 22:29:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:32:49 Taneb when is your esolang thing again 22:32:51 Addition on floats is commutative though 22:33:04 Phantom__Hoover, the 20th 22:33:08 19:30 22:35:08 btw if anyone else can get to York on the 20th for 19:30, I'm gonna try to design an esolang live and you can laugh at my failure 22:36:22 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:45:55 Phantom__Hoover, are you actually coming to this 22:46:43 still deliberating 22:47:40 a train from here to york is nearly 3 hours, unfortunately 22:47:46 :( 22:48:50 livestream it or something! 22:50:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:52:49 Phantom__Hoover: you need to get your own hoovercraft for these events 22:53:39 (it works the opposite of a hovercraft, naturally) 22:53:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:30 -!- augur has joined. 22:57:42 -!- tertu has joined. 23:07:16 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:23 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:10:13 Phantom__Hoover, with our current setup, livestreaming would be a tad difficult 23:15:29 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:25:20 oerjan: what, it suctions itself to the ground? 23:26:17 FireFly: no, to the air 23:26:31 oh. 23:30:51 Wasn't there one of them in Mario Kart DS? 23:44:35 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:48:06 quintopia: after a little testing, i have grave doubts about your 3 1 6 3 2 1 4 n conjecture for the numbers n=5,7,8,9 and 10. none of them seem to halt and 7,8 give me segmentation faults. (the rest all work, though.) 23:53:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 23:59:04 Some computer games are easily on their hardest difficulty level, including "Hocus Pocus"; I know there are some cheat code, is there a cheat code to turn off all bonus items, or to impose a time limit, or ammunition limit? 23:59:46 (The only cheat code I know is "FEELGOOD" to set back your health to 100%, but isn't good enough. Also, I cannot change the key config to letter keys!) 2014-02-10: 00:07:33 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:09:53 oerjan: seg faults????? 00:12:19 oerjan: when you say "none seem to halt" you mean they continue to have zeros in them forever? 00:12:38 -!- Bike has joined. 00:13:03 -!- contrapumpkin has joined. 00:15:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 00:17:50 -!- contrapumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin. 00:20:33 -!- shikhin has joined. 00:24:35 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:24:55 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:34:16 quintopia: well i ran them with | grep -P '((8 )*8)' | head -1 appended 00:35:37 (adjust 8 for actual digit) 00:36:26 so i didn't actually look at the output for all of them 00:38:43 quintopia: of course i didn't run them very long, so if you actually have run any of them to the point they confirmed the conjecture... 00:39:25 i'd sort of guess those that segfaulted did so because they grew enormous length 00:44:17 oerjan: one of these days i'll implement an automatically RLEing list... 00:47:08 Any emulator I have tried does not support any function of $B003 register other than the register labeled "M" here: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/VRC6#PPU_Banking_Style_.28.24B003.29 00:49:46 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:53:28 Gregor: I still want to buy the Sonivox soundfont 00:53:51 Although not convinced it's so great compared to Titanic 00:54:22 *shrugs* 00:55:46 quintopia: hm oh well actually 10 _technically_ fulfils the conjecture at one step, it's just that it's so short it needs to pop zeros for the next one. 00:56:47 Why is this sound called newd.wav? 00:56:55 It doesn't sound very newd 00:56:59 oh wait that means there's something wrong with my regexp... 00:57:18 It sounds more... apocalyptic 00:59:31 oh no, the regex's fine, it's the head -1 that somehow doesn't print the first line when nothing more is coming 01:02:52 quintopia: hm looking at the error messages, it might be grep which is doing the segfaulting. 01:03:37 because python gives a broken pipe error message 01:30:54 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:31:59 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 01:41:44 How do you segfault grep? 01:46:02 find the "exec other command" command and use it to exec something that segfaults, duh 01:47:00 FreeFull: hm i was using -P, the segfault disappeared when i rewrote the regexp in usual grep style 01:49:19 sadly there still were no matching lines to see 01:54:11 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:55:50 Do you have a cycle accurate C program to emulate a 6502 CPU? 01:57:10 -!- tertu has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 01:57:28 -!- tertu has joined. 02:17:08 -!- CADD_ has joined. 02:17:09 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:01:52 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:18:48 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:24:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:33:42 -!- nycs has joined. 03:36:39 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:08:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:12:51 -!- Bike has joined. 04:14:24 elliott_________: you appear to be leaking underscores 04:14:39 elliott_________: and basically my "help" is "why doesn't haskell have dependent types grrr" 04:16:36 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:18:22 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:19:00 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 04:19:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 04:31:49 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:33:03 -!- Sellyme has joined. 04:54:54 -!- luserdroog has joined. 05:13:36 http://xkcd.com/1328/ 05:23:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:23:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:26:46 " b_jonas: those aren't non-deterministic, the sense in which they're TC involves generalizing them to an infinite repeating pattern and treating it as a constraint-solving exercise" <<< isn't nondeterminism exactly constraint-solving? 05:26:55 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:27:09 at least in the np sense 05:27:41 i guess you meant in the thue sense 05:28:06 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 05:32:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 05:34:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 05:43:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:44:12 * kmc has just read http://www.vanemden.com/books/neals/jipi.html 05:47:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:11:38 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 06:12:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 06:15:01 -!- Bike has joined. 06:15:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has changed nick to nisstyre. 06:44:22 `dis86 6a3b589948bb2f62696e2f2f73685253545f5257545e0f05 06:44:23 push 0x3b \ pop rax \ cdq \ mov rbx, 0x68732f2f6e69622f \ push rdx \ push rbx \ push rsp \ pop rdi \ push rdx \ push rdi \ push rsp \ pop rsi \ syscall 06:44:27 `run dis86 31c031d2b00b52686e2f7368682f2f626989e3525389e1cd80 -32 06:44:27 xor eax, eax \ xor edx, edx \ mov al, 0xb \ push edx \ push 0x68732f6e \ push 0x69622f2f \ mov ebx, esp \ push edx \ push ebx \ mov ecx, esp \ int 0x80 06:44:52 `unhex 68732f2f6e69622f 06:44:53 hs//nib/ 06:45:37 -!- Guest74321 has joined. 06:49:12 `dis86 deadbeef 06:49:12 invalid 06:49:15 :) 07:00:00 `dis86 6a3b589948bb2f62696e2f2f73685253545f5257545e0f05 07:00:01 push 0x3b; pop rax; cdq; mov rbx, 0x68732f2f6e69622f; push rdx; push rbx; push rsp; pop rdi; push rdx; push rdi; push rsp; pop rsi; syscall; 07:00:17 `as86 push 0x3b; pop rax; cdq; mov rbx, 0x68732f2f6e69622f; push rdx; push rbx; push rsp; pop rdi; push rdx; push rdi; push rsp; pop rsi; syscall; 07:00:18 6a3b589948bb2f62696e2f2f73685253545f5257545e0f05 07:01:14 Refrigerators only cost a few hundred dollars? 07:01:25 I was thinking it would be more like thousands, for some reason 07:02:13 `as86 1: xor eax, eax; mov al, 0x39; syscall; jmp 1b 07:02:14 31c0b0390f05ebf8 07:03:18 well a /good/ refrigerator costs thousands. 07:03:27 the walk-in ones you use in your bomb shelters. 07:03:28 obviously. 07:03:29 «xor eax, eax» has the same effect as «xor rax, rax», isn't it? and one byte shorter 07:03:42 Sgeo: you can get small ones for somewhat under $100, even 07:03:44 does xor eax eax affect the high bits? 07:04:09 -!- Tritonio has joined. 07:04:21 So, instead of living with no working fridge, maybe I should just buy one myself already.... although, I also have no way to transport cold-needing foods home 07:04:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:04:45 Bike: writing to the low 32 bits of a register clears the upper 32 bits, for reasons 07:04:48 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:04:52 right silly me 07:05:33 Sgeo: you can keep foods unrefrigerated for a few minutes as you walk home without them exploding. 07:05:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:06:03 It's an annoyingly long walk from Stop&Shop, and CVS doesn't have all that much food 07:06:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_conditions_for_temperature_and_pressure#Current_use good thing programmers aren't the only ones who suck at standards 07:06:56 Could keep Red Bull cold, I guess 07:07:03 FOr the rare occasions I want to have Red Bull at home 07:07:10 (Snowstorm) 07:07:25 Sgeo: do you have a landlord who should fix the fridge? 07:07:53 It's a co-op, I think we're supposed to maintain it. Even if not, we don't really want our landlord walking in here 07:08:26 you can get food delivered maybe 07:08:37 I know this is a thing in NYC; I don't know how far out on Long Island you can do it 07:08:47 I can walk to CVS to buy some foods 07:08:56 Instant pasta, some noodles, etc. 07:09:04 Or on good days can have pizza dinners 07:09:09 And Subway 07:09:24 "In my experience, boxes are usually empty, sometimes with a little cheese stuck to the top, and one time pepperoni, what a day that was!" 07:09:45 As in, not too cold to walk to pizza place 07:13:09 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:25:15 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 07:25:24 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:26:55 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:32:07 "Why does Firefox take 30 seconds to shut down? Because it's anal about cleaning up stuff that the OS could discard in milliseconds, and because current programming languages do not distinguish between optional resource deallocations and mandatory finalization such as flushing buffers" 07:32:09 Is that accurate? 07:32:38 i seriously doubt it 07:33:02 have you ever observed firefox to take 30 seconds to shut down? 07:33:18 I haven't used Firefox in years... well, except for at work 07:33:34 i started using it again when i took a job at mozilla 07:33:44 This is from 2012 07:33:44 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9033931/memory-leak-c 07:33:44 i can't really observe a performance difference from chromium anymore 07:34:22 i think it would be easy enough to hack the allocator to make free() a no-op during shutdown 07:34:37 so if this made a big difference they would already be doing it 07:34:55 most things on stackoverflow are wrong 07:35:29 That's depressing 07:35:43 hmm, this is possibly the first time I've seen someone criticize Firefox for /not/ leaking memory 07:35:49 :D 07:36:35 although you can only make free() a no-op if the shutdown is un-cancellable 07:37:37 Why is Windows Vista so pretty? 07:37:49 because a lot of designers spent a lot of time making it so 07:38:12 why do you think it's called that 07:38:21 buena vista 07:38:34 Sgeo: basically because Microsoft decided to move to a compositing window managers for performance reasons, and it's hard for window managers to resist screwing around with all the fun things you can do with compositors 07:39:18 http://jerkcity.com/_jerkcity1024.html -- I'm a bit disappointed that the ANSI C citation here doesn't seem to be relevant 07:39:27 Not even talking about that (although sad it seems to have been removed from 8?). Just the... wallpapers and taskbar theme 07:39:59 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:40:06 I'm pretty sure 8 still does compositing, they just changed the theming 07:41:59 really pissed that the Wikipedia deletionists got to the Jerkcity article 07:42:30 it even had extensive citations http://www.jerkcity.com/wikipediasucks/Jerkcity.html 07:45:50 fungot: this is all an 07:45:50 kmc: since scheme has no builtin fnord under which defenition are characters, strings, ports) 07:46:24 The extensive citations all seem to be primary sources, though. 07:46:57 "Do not base an entire article on primary sources, and be cautious about basing large passages on them." (WP:PS) 07:49:05 markov chain which combines king james bible with wikipedia policy documents 07:49:39 fungot: You heard the kmc; get to it. 07:49:39 fizzie: if only people spoke " choose your own adventure". otoh, he's been using lisp since 1988. so i need something to tell gnomon. if only inequalities are supported in gauche's native encoding?) 07:52:35 ^style 07:52:35 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 07:52:39 ^style speeches 07:52:39 Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) 07:52:44 fortune favors the fungot 07:52:44 kmc: " fnord fnord." on lincoln's nomination to the united states in a space of little more than three years elapsed before a change of ministry. his favourite disciple, george canning, young, military fnord, and the nation as buyer, to sell out the old whig party, i repeat, i am not safe from them. 07:53:01 fizzie: how does your speech recognition do on this fungot style 07:53:01 shachaf: such disobedience on the part of the scheme. in the monastic institutions, in my childish days i remember to have heard a great deal of writing on the palm of eloquence doubtful. addington made a pitiable appearance between the court and juries should subsist any longer? on what principle is it that speaks thus? that of the augustan age: " fnord fnord fnord 07:53:44 It's challenging, because we generally expect a single utterance to come from a single speech, and not a jumble of several. 07:54:07 fungots fall on fungot falls 07:54:08 kmc: gentlemen, i know mr. rockefeller, two weeks ago, and wrought out to a governor the general line of his arguments. but that was no place to talk about it as it is, i got off they started to raise a revenue in america. for even then, discussion was fnord but the subject is on my mind that he entertained no principle either to influence his heart, and still, therefore, decide on their respective claims to our confidence so f 07:54:37 ^style fungot 07:54:38 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 07:54:43 I remember there was a flash game that I was surprised had a Wikipedia article about it... found out some things about it that I couldn't find anywhere else 07:54:51 "on what principle is it that speaks thus? that of the augustan age: 'fnord fnord fnord'" 07:54:52 Can't even remember what it was called now :( 07:54:52 seen things you can't un-see 07:54:55 Good principle. 07:55:00 fungots of all kinds 07:55:00 kmc: i use slatex tex2page, and then to beslubber our garments with it, it had some obvious deficiences ( such as `,3 sub by 47, 48, 49, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 100, 121, 144, 169, 196, 225, 256, 512 ...too much output! 07:55:18 It's the one where you hit some guy and he keeps bouncing on the ground and colliding with girls 07:55:27 Which... actually sounds pretty weird 07:55:33 is it a dating sim 07:55:43 It wasn't adult, but I think the characters came from an adult story of some sort 07:55:46 Not a dating sim 07:56:48 Nanaca Crash 07:56:48 wow, I think I know the game you mean, one of my friends back at secondary school (like 10 years ago now) was addicted to it (although I've never played it) 07:56:50 yep 07:56:57 not sure how to spell it because I've only heard it spoken 07:57:12 Sgeo: I just located Nanaca Crash by googling for "flash game where you hit some guy and he keeps bouncing on the ground and colliding with girls" -- the first hit was relevant. 07:57:17 fungot: i'm surrounded by them 07:57:17 kmc: something like scheme48 ( upon the general position is a part of these amendments, i can only thank the president-in-office, you did hear me say that we have had in getting information with regard to monetary policy, a factor is 07:57:25 fizzie: Google is pretty impressive 07:57:45 (I do remember that game too.) 08:00:17 1260.79 m. I wonder if that's good or bad. 08:00:47 quite good, IIRC 08:05:35 I guess not so good, because on second attempt I got 2800.11m. I think that's enough, though. 08:06:18 (I don't really understand the game mechanics. This time there was some sort of a "cosmic force field". 08:15:26 fizzie: that wikipedia article has them, I think 08:18:31 Yes, it was very informative. 08:19:24 -!- utkarsh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:20:38 hm, 2650.02m 08:20:41 -!- utkarsh has joined. 08:20:57 it was not obvious to me at first that there was any audience participation beyond the first click 08:21:20 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:22:34 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:23:12 -!- myndzi has joined. 08:25:11 This 6502 assembly code program contains a table "db 0,0,1,255,1,0,0" which is used in a few different ways, by reading it starting at different offsets; in one case it even uses the low two bits of the flag register as an index into this table. 08:25:21 -!- trn has joined. 08:25:45 (This wasn't entire intentional; I just found that I could use the same table in several ways, so I did.) 08:26:39 Are you aware what the flag bits are in 6502 programming? 08:28:24 yes, although I can't remember which order they're in 08:28:36 do you push them onto the stack in order to get them into the X/Y register? 08:28:48 Yes 08:29:09 Although you cannot pop from the stack directly into the X or Y register 08:30:11 The low two bits of the flag register happen to be the carry flag at bit0, and the zero flag at bit1. 08:31:05 I don't know how common it is to perform arithmetic on the flag register 08:31:43 Or to perform arithmetic on instruction opcodes, which I have also done. 08:32:46 Do you know of any such things? 08:33:23 (I think in some extended 6502 instructions sets it is possible to take from the stack directly into a X register, but not in the normal 6502 anyways.) 08:35:24 what do you do with arithmetic on instruction opcodes? 08:35:59 in one of my programs I have a system call to read() which overwrites part of an instruction, but not an opcode 08:36:09 kmc: I mean adding, subtracting, exclusive ORing, etc numbers and storing the result in a RAM where it will be executed as an instruction opcode. 08:36:26 kmc: What program is that, and what CPU? 08:36:35 amd64 cpu 08:36:49 i will show you the program when it is ready 08:37:05 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:39:01 zzo38: why is it useful to do arithmetic on opcodes, though? 08:40:11 i have to sleep now, though 08:40:12 good night 08:41:32 Here is the relevant code: AND #$04 ASL A ASL A ASL A STA (The < is the syntax in MagicKit to use zero-page addressing.) 08:45:14 -!- utkarsh has quit (Changing host). 08:45:14 -!- utkarsh has joined. 09:16:11 ais523: Do you understand any of this? 09:17:08 I thought I used xor to toggle between two opcodes in a self-modifying Z80 program, but it seems I just write them explicitly, since the two places that change it are separate. 09:17:43 zzo38: yes, although my assembler didn't need a special syntax for zero page 09:19:16 ais523: Yes, most don't, although in my opinion the MagicKit syntax (which not only uses a special syntax for zero page, but uses square brackets for indirection) is better than the official syntax anyways. 09:20:14 fizzie: Yes you could do that, although of course it depend on the program, since it is also possible that they would be updated in the same way, like I have. 09:24:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:24:18 ais523: What assembler did you use? 09:28:40 zzo38: the one in the BBC Micro ROM 09:29:42 OK 09:29:55 I didn't know it had one 09:37:40 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:40:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:43:49 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:52:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 09:54:24 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:17:58 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:18:08 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:18:15 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:17:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:58:45 -!- yorick has joined. 12:00:11 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:00:29 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:04:56 -!- utkarsh has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 12:08:54 -!- spiette has joined. 12:09:02 -!- utkarsh has joined. 12:09:31 -!- myndzi has joined. 12:11:28 -!- trn has joined. 12:13:54 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:17:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:17:10 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:46:21 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:55:43 -!- tertu has joined. 12:59:47 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:05:17 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:27:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:37:57 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:44:59 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 14:11:32 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 14:19:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:08:11 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 15:09:33 -!- Sellyme has joined. 15:49:47 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:53:03 -!- tertu has joined. 15:55:04 -!- nycs has changed nick to `^_^v. 16:11:01 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:11:10 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:14:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:19:43 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:20:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:38:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:41:14 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:04:50 -!- Johnnie has joined. 17:05:03 Hallo! 17:05:18 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:06:59 Quick question, very minor: how are program listings done on the Wiki? Are they done through external links (IE: .txt files on another website), internal links (could you use Wiki space for program listings) or right on the page? 17:13:55 -!- c_ has joined. 17:14:19 -!- c_ has changed nick to Guest76381. 17:17:21 -!- Guest74321 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:22:36 -!- c__ has joined. 17:26:51 -!- Guest76381 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:27:34 -!- c__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:27:56 -!- Johnnie has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:28:00 -!- c__ has joined. 17:30:14 oh, I wasn't online enough to answer 17:30:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:30:43 @tell Johnnie if it's short, use
 blocks right on the page; long programs are normally linked externally but can be placed on subpages
17:30:43  Consider it noted.
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17:41:34  Can you see the purpose of my     AND #$04   ASL A   ASL A   ASL A   STA  Which is described at http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/PPU_registers
17:50:04  I found a repository on GitHub that contains links to other projects. Is this a feature of the git system?
17:55:51 -!- ggherdov has joined.
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17:59:38  Git does have a concept of "submodules" that are essentially links to other Git repositories.
18:00:27  (I don't know how they look like in GitHub.)
18:01:23  (submodules are also widely considered to suck)
18:02:15  https://github.com/ghc/ghc/tree/master/libraries has a bunch of submodules (but those are not - primarily - hosted on github)
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18:28:34  I found some z80 codes for multiplication/division.
18:29:21 -!- tertu has joined.
18:29:45  Now I should try to convert to 6502 codes, but I don't know all z80 instruction exactly what they mean.
18:32:12  There's (possibly not terribly good) multiplication routines for Z80 also in the SDCC C compiler.
18:32:27  I was thinking there might be 6502 routines too, but apparently SDCC didn't target the 6502 after all.
18:32:41  zzo38: the manual I learned 6502 asm from had 16-bit multiply and divide in an appendix
18:33:45  There's a 6502 multiplication routine included in the CC65 sources, however.
18:34:40  https://github.com/oliverschmidt/cc65/blob/master/libsrc/runtime/mul.s and https://github.com/oliverschmidt/cc65/blob/master/libsrc/runtime/mul8.s
18:34:45  (Disclaimer: it might not be any good at all.)
18:35:46  (And division code in div.s, udiv.s.)
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18:37:28  OK
18:38:53  tax, hmm.
18:41:12  http://www.onlinedisassembler.com/odaweb/
18:44:29  neat
18:48:03  fizzie: the mul8x8 looks suspicious to me; how is the y register ever initialised?
18:49:19  also http://gcc.godbolt.org/
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18:54:23  Would it be correct to say that regular expressions from a semiring?
18:55:05  sure.
18:55:22  Yay
18:55:31  Is it particularly useful, though
18:55:42  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleene_algebra
18:56:22  Oooooh
18:56:24  atriq: not really speaking of which, did you read http://conway.rutgers.edu/~ccshan/wiki/blog/posts/WordNumbers1/
18:56:37  I did not
18:57:28  it's a series
18:58:25  Oooooooooooh
18:58:41  int-e: I would think it's initialized by the ldy #8 on line 22.
18:58:52  int-e: (mul8x8 is not an exported entry point.)
19:00:17  fizzie: thanks
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19:10:25  shachaf: interesting read, thanks
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19:59:06  What is this? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Talk:Glossary It looks like it replaced accented letters with Chinese, but I don't know what would cause such thing!
19:59:39  zzo38: it could be an encoding issue
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20:19:56  There are a number of character sets where a UTF-8 è (as in the word très) would be interpreted as 猫, as listed by a quick and dirty  iconv -l | while read cs; do c=$(echo 'è' | iconv -f $cs); if [ "$c" == "猫" ]; then echo $cs; fi; done 2>/dev/null
20:21:42  (Including GB2312/EUC-CN and Windows code page 936.)
20:24:17  Looking at some other characters narrows it down to probably just cp936.
20:25:06  (The correspondence between 脿 and à, to be precise.)
20:25:45  I'm surprised that there are encodings that would pick just 128 CJK characters to include in the high bits, if they're that complex
20:25:55  it doesn't seem so useful to have such a small subset of the characters available
20:26:51  Hm? UTF-8 è and à are two-byte encodings, and translate to a single CJK character (猫, 脿) in those. Unless you're talking about some other encodings.
20:28:30  fizzie: oh, I thought it was being translated from Latin-1
20:28:37  because I'm used to codepages being 8-bit
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20:32:32  I believe CP936 is one of the Windows "DBCS" schemes, which is a multi-byte scheme with 00..7f alone as single-byte characters, and 80..ff as "lead bytes" that signal the start of a two-byte character, with the trailing half allowed to be any byte.
20:32:48  (So 2^15+2^7 available characters.)
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20:37:06  Not that I can really understand what it's trying to say, even after fixing the encoding.
20:37:24  It reads like some autogenerated spam filler text.
20:37:39  maybe it /is/ autogenerated spam filler text?
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20:48:01  fizzie: nice detective work
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22:53:56  http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1xi8kd/this_week_in_rust_9_feb_2014/cfblq3e
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23:29:39  quintopia: i found definite proof that your 3 1 6 3 2 1 4 n was false for the remaining cases
23:29:50  (see talk page)
23:30:01  *+conjecture
23:31:42  quintopia: also i don't think lexicographic order means what you think it means.
23:32:04  (by which i mean, any sequence starting 11 is before 142)
23:33:31  (regardless of length)
23:34:09  Apparently there is a wiktionary entry for the word 'esolangs'
23:34:18  yay
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23:51:36  quintopia: btw you could consider n=4 the same type as n=10, although you need to note then that the alignment will never be odd.
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2014-02-11:

00:01:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
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01:06:04  Racket has something it calls 3D syntax. Sadly, it seems to merely be "(syntax that contains unwritable values, etc)"
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01:08:23 * oerjan wins 1 point in the "guess what Sgeo is talking about just from the single first letter visible in the background window"
01:08:31  sorry, *scores
01:09:17  *+game
01:09:38 * oerjan loses points for not reading his own lines before pressing return
01:09:53  Can you guys give me tips for making esolangs without really trying
01:11:01  pick a weird layout for memory and program, possibly separately
01:12:13  oerjan, that was the plan
01:12:18  steal commands/keywords from ordinary languages, give them single character names
01:12:30  I need to do this in half an hour a week on thursday
01:12:50  alternatively give them themed names
01:13:14  (but i somehow expect you to have better taste)
01:13:53  I am worried my audience will be expecting Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 2
01:14:41  in that case, steal combinator birds instead. rename them to flowers.
01:14:44  ...on another note, I've just got a 418 error
01:15:09  oerjan, I want to do as little planning but as much preparation as possible
01:15:43  i see.
01:16:37  bring a box of legos.  use those for syntax.
01:17:05  As in, I want vague ideas about which direction I want to go in, but I don't want to actually have anything defined
01:17:16  http://blog.inedo.com/2010/10/12/http-418-im-a-teapot-finally-a-%E2%80%9Clegitimate%E2%80%9D-use/
01:17:28  Not really a legitimate use, but still
01:17:43  I can imagine frustratingly implementing that sort of thing
01:18:19  Taneb: in fact construct the first 3d esolang.
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01:18:38  oerjan, isn't there some 3D funges?
01:18:40  oerjan: come on, you've played 4d scrabble, you should suggest 4d esolang
01:18:57  Sgeo: i'm afraid lego won't be up to the challenge
01:19:01  In fact, nD funges are pretty boring once you get the idea
01:19:23  Oh, apparently, you were judge, not player
01:19:32  Based off this esolang log I fojd
01:19:46  ...i assume you mean frc log
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01:20:12  or wait, i may have discussed it here...
01:20:23  http://tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/13.06.09
01:21:09  well it was an frc round, anyway.
01:21:50  `coins
01:21:52  iotatedcoin pbocoin surfcoin delcoin doguecoin clavcoin catorcoin bullcoin sphcoin squodetroccoin brcalcoin bircoin fromorecoin feemcoin bitflipcoin bf-dercoin fragacoin extenundcoin snowfcoin markanweicoin
01:23:30  doguecoin, so francais, much beau
01:23:56  15:08:15  I wonder when I'll start having nostalgia for Cablevision's offices
01:23:56  15:08:23  did you quit
01:23:56  15:08:57  no
01:24:17  Since this conversation occurred, I have been relocated to a different office
01:24:27  is it better or worse?
01:25:01  It's diagonal. And worse.
01:25:14  diagonal?
01:25:49  My cube is at the corner of two perpendicular hallways. There is a third hallway diagonal to those hallways
01:26:10  It was a bit disorienting at first
01:26:34  it's actually a huge arrow pointing to Sgeo
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02:25:17  oerjan: what do you call the ordering where you sort by length and then sort by the first symbol within lengths, then sort by the second symbol within those with the same length and first symbol etc...
02:27:28  i'm not quite sure.
02:28:09  for a given base, if you ignore leading zeros, it's the same as "numerical order"
02:30:31  so for base aleph_0?
02:30:35  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortlex_order
02:31:28  ah
02:31:32  got it
02:34:02  so "the alignment will never be odd" is enough to prove that the zeros will never disappear?
02:34:54  for 4, yes.
02:35:32  for larger than 4, it's not necessary, but with 4 if you hit on 04400440... in that order it completely self-deletes
02:35:56  *in that alignment
02:36:06  ah. what suffices for the other cases then?
02:36:29  like why do the zeros never show up in the first or second positions?
02:37:27  they might, but the strings are long enough that you will get a reproduction later anyhow
02:37:42  in fact the case where the zero is second is the worst one
02:38:01  and the only reason i need four copies of the n-1 n's block
02:39:52  hmm. were you able to simultaneously apply all this logic to all of them, and then just grep runs of them?
02:39:55  or n-2 n's, for the 0 0 case
02:40:09  quintopia: yes.
02:40:55  all the cases where the alignment starts with n n work essentially the same, and there are just 2-3 other positions to consider.
02:41:32  and the logic is not significantly different for different n>=5
02:42:36   n … n 0 n … n 0 n … n 0 n … n
02:42:37  .   * * . ;     :
02:42:48  that's my summary diagram for the logic
02:43:45  well that's settled then. Now there's only a couple of things I really want to know about it: 1) am i right that universality is still achievable if we bound the number of symbols?
02:44:21  well of course, just take a universal tag system and apply ais523's perl program to it
02:44:43  2) is there a nice block that includes an arbitrary length-n string and copies itself f(n) times for any linear f?
02:45:42  (afaict the initial state of the tag system doesn't influence the symbols used, only the lookup table/"alphabet" does)
02:46:07  oerjan: his program incorporates the initial condition into the generated program. I'm not perfectly certain about how it works that we can bound the max number for all possible inputs
02:46:21  well i can't tell. i was hoping so.
02:46:56  quintopia: the initial condition is afaict just concatenating the representation for each symbol as derived from the condition-independent alphabet.
02:46:58  in which case, my question is: what's an upper bound on that number? unfortunately, i can't find an explicit representation of a universal tag system anywhere.
02:48:54  i don't know either
02:49:36  i mistated question 2. in fact, i don't know how to phrase that question right now. but i would at least like to have a block pattern which can create a constant number of copies of itself including an arbitrary string.
02:49:44  as for (2) what do you mean by using a function?  i'm pretty sure we can make a block that copies itself m times and contains a length n arbitrarily chosen substring
02:50:36  i guess i just rephrased it, then :P
02:50:36  well i would think so, but i would also like it to be short and simple :P
02:50:41  it's not what my real question is though. but i don't know what my real question is.
02:51:08  hm probably adjust the 4 2 4 2 ... thing
02:51:29  i've been trying to!
02:52:28  hm i think it needs something at the end too
02:53:48  yeah, except things at the end may cause it to interact with other blocks!
02:54:26  oh hm
02:54:47  this is tricky.
02:54:53  inorite
02:55:11  the problem is getting anything _between_ the copies.
02:55:26  indeed
02:55:37  i think you need two passes.
02:56:01  that sounds more likely. one pass for the head, one for the tail?
02:56:15  not really
02:56:32  yeah probably not
02:56:40  some intermediate form then
02:57:25  maybe one pass makes two copies the arbitrary string, and another inserts the header between them somehow
02:57:45  no. you cannot swap things efficiently.
02:57:56  but intermediate form, yes.
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03:10:18  oh, 4 2 m n 4 2 can do the prepending
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03:15:29  so basically prepend 4 2 (n+6) m  to any sequence which is already self-preserving.
03:15:47  oops
03:15:57  *4 2 (n+6) m 4 2
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03:16:39  quintopia: ^
03:19:36  in the next step, it will be the same, except with (n+22) m prepended, which then copies all of it m times.
03:21:02  hm in fact 4 2 x y 4 2  is a more basic building block of the 4 2 4 2 4 2 4 2 construction.
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03:22:54  I have no idea what language this is
03:29:22  it's resplicate
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03:57:46  quintopia: my rewordings while editing the page made me think of one possible subtlety of my mental model for queue-like languages like this: i'm thinking of the queue as more of a _circle_ that the ip is moving on, and the commands don't so much append to the queue as they are replacing themselves with their result...
03:59:13  this can apply to stack languages like underload as well (see the rewriting section in that)
03:59:35  and msm, which is a combination
04:01:38  (well for stack languages not the circle part, but the replacing part)
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04:11:37  oerjan: yeah 4 2 mn 5
04:11:46  42mn42 is what i was thinking about
04:11:53  but got distracted by olympics
04:14:20  mhm
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04:48:44  `coins
04:48:46  fryinglycoin circcoin acrotcoin hangcoin remonecoin tranocoin inlcoin objectcoin phawacoin kiploycoin bitiocoin kolmocoin micasmittcoin rcemanacoin poientedicasmicoin proomcoin ihatcoin tedcoin georylovecoin herstasiccoin
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04:56:09  `cat coins
04:56:09  cat: coins: No such file or directory
04:56:26  `run cat $(which coins)
04:56:26  words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
04:56:36  hi tech
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05:04:54  Bike: I thought they all exist
05:05:15  what
05:06:09  I thought they are somehow generated via coingen.io
05:06:11  :S
05:07:25  do they have a bot interface
05:09:21  no but not hard to automate
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06:19:55  `olist (944)
06:19:56  olist (944): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily
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06:26:46  `coins
06:26:48  homesprolcoin excocoin alcucoin mycecoin gottcoin gamcoin wilsofcoin lnutacoin rocecoin x-dcoin tarcoin faltcoin neurcoin burrcoin cobosencoin brachcoin photomycoin aheuicoin bicecoin dateflindexeucoin
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06:44:44  tychaf
06:46:10  fungotocracy
06:46:11  kmc: no, it's not. it's more complex than that. read the code.) good stuff
06:52:44  fungot: have you read your own code
06:52:44  shachaf: i am just as confused. you, in that line, that i have gone totally wanting, and then you can choose fnord, but don't
06:53:02  fungot: i choose not to choose fnord
06:53:02  kmc: it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave? fnord 06:22, 29, no. 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13, 1(::**) ...bad insn!
06:53:22  `dis86 4daf5f1e95
06:53:22  scasq; pop rdi; invalid; xchg ebp, eax;
06:54:06  invalid; is the best instruction.
06:54:12  `as86 ud2
06:54:13  0f0b
06:54:16  `dis86 0f0b
06:54:17  ud2;
06:54:28  this is the instruction that's defined to be undefined
06:54:37  i forgot what happened to ud1, maybe somebody defined it by accident
06:55:06  `as86 ud1
06:55:06  0fb9
06:55:16  `dis86 0fb9
06:55:16  invalid;
07:03:23  is fungot spouting underload now
07:03:23  Bike: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going, tough one. if we solve it,...
07:04:07  `gccrun asm("ud2");
07:04:08  Illegal instruction
07:04:35  ^style
07:04:35  Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
07:04:51  `gccrun asm("ud1");
07:04:52  Illegal instruction
07:05:25  `cat bin/as86
07:05:25  as="$1"; shift; echo ".intel_syntax noprefix; $as" | gcc "$@" -c -x assembler /dev/stdin -o /tmp/as86.o && objcopy -O binary /tmp/as86.{o,bin} && xxd -p /tmp/as86.bin
07:07:08  that's some complicated shite right there.
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07:37:45  kmc: "Use the 0F0B opcode (UD2 instruction) or the 0FB9 opcode when deliberately trying to generate an invalid opcode exception (#UD)."
07:38:01  I guess it's still proerply undefined. Don't know about names.
07:38:15  Pro-ERPly.
07:38:18  whence quote
07:38:51  I think there's some OS out there which uses ud2 as the syscall instruction
07:39:34  Intel's instruction set manual, volume 2, Table A-1 "Superscripts Utilized in Opcode Tables", entry "1B".
07:39:51  (Which is used in both the 0F0B and 0FB9 table entries.)
07:57:36  i'll also ask here i guess:  i have a (universal) algebra A in some variety, say it's an abelian group, so the type is (+, 2), (^{-1}, 1), (1, 0). i say a function f : A \to A is \emph{nice} if it can be built as follows: the identity map and constant maps are nice, and if $g$ is nice and $c \in A$, then $x \mapsto g(x) + c$, $x \mapsto c + g(x)$, $x \mapsto g(x)^{-1}$ and $x \mapsto 1$ are nice. is there a better name for nice?
07:58:32  so basically the functions you can build out of a single variable x and any algebra operations with constants from the algebra
07:58:54  for rings, these are the affine maps x \mapsto ax + b
07:59:01  so i have usually called them affine maps
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08:36:14  HAXE HAS MACROS???
08:36:30  Maybe I should actually take a look at it, instead of just instantly dismissing it as boring
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09:13:57  kmc: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2004/12/15/313250.aspx
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10:21:30  olsner: and SYSENTER is born.
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14:01:38   hi tech <-- was wondering for a moment who you were greeting, there
14:04:47  ~metar EFHK
14:04:56  I always do that when it no works.
14:05:10  hint: metasepia leaves when boily does.
14:06:05  I did not know that. Why is it so? 
14:06:23  you'll have to ask boily, it's his bot
14:07:05  @ask boily Why does metasepia leave when you do? 
14:07:05  Consider it noted.
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14:40:17  darths & droids #1000 today
14:40:43  (don't forget the usual bonus comic)
14:49:22  wait what.
14:50:02  THEY FORGOT THE BONUS COMIC
14:50:26  unless it's related to the fact sromg hasn't updated either.
15:04:59 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
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15:13:28  what bonus comic?
15:13:38  oh
15:13:46  do those follow some regular schedule?
15:14:57  oerjan: by bonus comic, you mean the ones branching from #50, right?
15:17:02 -!- samebchase has joined.
15:19:15  yes
15:19:32 -!- FireFly has joined.
15:19:38  they usually appear every 50th ordinary comic
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16:01:42  ais523: could your tag-to-resplicate converter be easily adjusted to output only even-length sequences with even numbers in the odd positions?
16:06:06  quintopia: yes
16:07:16  wish i knew perl better, or understood the algorithm enough to reimplement in something I better understand
16:07:47  the only tricky thing that program does is build expressions as strings, that are 'eval'ed later
16:08:04  also, @array can either refer to the array as a whole, or the number of elements in it
16:08:14  which can make that program a little confusing at times
16:09:45  and 523 is clearly just some sort of flag (based on your name) which could have been any number?
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16:14:06  it's not even a flag, just a dummy cell
16:14:19  yeah
16:14:53  i'm changing it to zero :P
16:15:41  the point is that it doesn't matter
16:16:07  also it annoys me that it generates a program which is shortened by its first step. (it starts 2 1 78 0)
16:18:27  you mean it could put the 78 0 at the /end/ instead? that'd annoy me even more
16:18:33  because then it'd be out of order
16:20:36  i always manually move it to the end when i save it :P
16:21:47  so about these 1's that keep showing up in the odd positions...how to make them even numbers?
16:22:33  eh, in general, how to change odds to evens?
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16:26:52  quintopia: the code that generates the 523 padding has an odd length (3), and the length of that code determines the length of the padding
16:27:35  if you make the padding-generation code have an even length (e.g. by padding by copying a length-2 string not a length-1 string), the required length of padding will be an even length too
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16:28:38  ...and then my header merge suggestion will work >:)
16:30:05  oerjan: that's why i'm trying to do it
16:30:16  aha
16:30:42  because as you've demonstrated, there is a simple meta-symbol construction for "ResPairate"
16:31:22  hm i may have thought that, but did i actually say it?
16:31:51  (that you can merge pairs into a single symbol if everything is even alignment)
16:32:02  (namely, the pair (n,m) is replaced by the sequence (2,2)(n+11,m)(2,2)(2,2)(2,2)(2,2)(2,2)(0,0)(n,1)(0,0)(n,1))
16:32:51  wait what
16:33:18  that's the metasymbol. you should recognize it. it's mostly yours. :P
16:33:33  well yes but what's a metasymbol
16:33:53  a sequence that behaves like a symbol. like metapixels in Life.
16:34:32  um that sequence double itself every second cycle, it doesn't behave like anything else?
16:34:35  *+s
16:34:47  er m-plies
16:35:32  actually, you're right
16:35:38  that n should be something*n
16:35:59  but yeah it's clearly possible
16:36:31  probably 11*n
16:38:57  but my sequence is designed to preserve _itself_, not what's following.
16:39:06  *multiply
16:39:07  ais523: so does push @alphabet, 2, (@alphabet + 5), 0, 0; do what you're saying? i'm not sure what the "5 numbers" you refer to are.
16:39:45  the 5 numbers are the number of numbers pushed on that line, plus the number of numbers pushed on the next line
16:39:49  so you'd need to change the 5 to 6
16:39:56  then you'd need to divide by 2
16:40:11  because you're copying a two-element string, so you only need half as many copies
16:40:23  so it'd be push @alphabet, 2, (@alphabet + 6) / 2, 0 , 0;
16:40:31  then you need to change the end padding the same way
16:40:49  oerjan: it multiplies itself, including some string which it is prepended to. what if what is prepended to is another sequence just like itself? it should work i think.
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16:42:04  ais523: and the trailing padding has to be modified in terms of a string to be eval'd? so i need to put the /2 into a string and concatenate it?
16:42:13  quintopia: yes
16:43:15  so this: push @alphabet, 2, ('(@alphabet - '. @alphabet. ')/2'), 0, 0;
16:43:50  quintopia: it keeps the thing it's prepended to completely inert.
16:43:53  quintopia: that looks right
16:45:16  my point is, something that works equivalent to the pair (m,n) needs _not_ to include itself in what it's multiplying.
16:45:21  oerjan: oh wait. i see the problem. it imposes a copy of itself between all those symbols its prepended to.
16:45:23  oerjan: you were right. check the changes now.
16:45:39  so yeah it should fail to preserve itself instead
16:45:52  isn't that even easier though?
16:45:52  b_jonas: yay!
16:46:00  quintopia: probably
16:47:48  quintopia: in fact a trivial meta-symbol is (x,0) ...x arbitrary pairs... (m*(x+2),n)
16:48:47  and the initial part can be replaced by anything that leaves no trace
16:49:06  do you have m and n backwards from i am doing or am i just confused
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16:50:46  ah, you're right. metasymbols are really easy.
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16:52:42  ais523: by the way i ran collatz->tag->resplicate for n=27 and it 406542 steps to reach the period 40 oscillator, growing up to 2,170,200 on the way.
16:53:02  quintopia: I tried doing that, but gave up waiting for it to finish :-)
16:53:20  you can actually follow what the tag system is doing with some simple greps on the debug output of the interp
16:53:23  ais523: takes about one night's sleep to finish.
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16:54:12  ais523: you can actually follow the collatz one really easily just by watching the length of the queue from moment to moment (which is printed by the -l flag)
16:54:39  seeing as how it represents numbers in unary :P
16:55:04  we need a simple useful tag program that isn't the collatz sequence one from Wikipedia, really
16:55:35  although I guess generalized collatz (which is TC) shouldn't be too hard to compile to tag?
16:55:42  ais523: do you think it's possible to design a halt symbol that deletes itself when compiled to resplicate?
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16:56:38  quintopia: not without modifying the rest of the construction, but it'd be trivial enough to slip in a "skip to this point in the next symbol" construction to the initial padding
16:56:41  then you could just jump to that
16:56:47  and all the symbols would delete themselves in turn until the tape was empty
16:58:20  ais523: the only problem i've been having with the whole "universal tag system" thing is that every thing I can find shows how particular /families/ of tag systems are universal. I have yet to find anything tag systems that let you encode other tag systems as the string to be modified and evaluates them.
16:58:50  quintopia: write a Turing Machine that evaluates tag sytems, compile it to a tag system
16:59:05  ais523: yes i know, but that will be HUEG
16:59:25  also there's the question about how you do input
16:59:34  I'd like to give ResPlicate an output extension, at least
16:59:55  something like "if the length is 0, the count is interpreted as a Unicode codepoint and written to stdout"
17:00:02  that doesn't affect interps that don't understand it
17:00:22  you could use negative numbers for anything you want
17:00:23  yeah that is a nice way
17:01:07  actually..
17:01:09  oerjan: that MIGHT affect some interps.
17:01:15  yeah
17:01:15  `coins
17:01:17  inccoin wheatchcoin cabraicoin wiercoin anocoin dellowierdongcoin palcoin cluticoin thersetcoin karmadigecoin gendelliorsquecoin htfcoin publecoin splcoin intfuccencoin clookcoin calcoin ariocoin nigmocoin juncoin
17:01:21  depending on the language they are in and how they are implemented
17:02:06  why would it have to be numbers?
17:02:11  couldn't it be a special entry?
17:02:40  b_jonas: backwards compat
17:02:57  is `coins like `words, but with "coin" at the end?
17:03:00  `words
17:03:01  you can't do input with backwards compat, anyway.
17:03:01  stu
17:03:07  ais523: ideally, input would automatically be converted into some kind of useful format, such as your "alphabets"
17:04:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
17:04:49  ais523: if there were a way to do that, we could compile PLATTS to ResPlicate
17:10:32  ais523: It's `words with an english-and-esolangs interpolated model, and coin at the end.
17:12:49 -!- tertu_ has joined.
17:13:01  (Personally, I think it's impressively good at generating plausible cryptocurrency names, but then again that might be more of a comment on existing cryptocurrency names.)
17:13:42 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:18:49  fizzie: yeah
17:19:12  fizzie: I like "palcoin". that's probably something endorsed by paypal
17:26:21  is there already a language that uses some kind of evolution?
17:28:14  all languages evolve!
17:28:20  english has evolved a lot
17:28:28  but then...so has Python
17:28:53  as part of the concept
17:31:38  i have an idea of a metalanguage that produces keywords of the underlying language through some evolutionary rules
17:37:30  well, stuff like that has certainly been done. for instance the Lymia's BFJoust programs
17:37:56  huh?
17:39:49  describe your concept
17:42:35  well, i heard about evolutionary game theory an hour ago
17:44:14  like you have an instruction that rules for now, but because of some mutations another instruction might evolve and due to given rules might become the main population
17:47:57  that's not a fully-fledged idea yet :P
17:48:48  i have more details in mind, but i am on a smartphone right now, so i am too lazy to write that much details
17:49:00  ais523: do you think ResPairate would be TC with numcopies<=2?
17:49:22  i may just implement it after this semester is finally over
17:49:25  quintopia: I think most likely yes, although I don't have a construction in mind
17:49:33  myname: that's easy, just define a useful language and a half-useful compiler, but write its specification deliberately incomplete and remove some useful things so people want to add those as extensions,
17:49:49  hahaha
17:49:51  then variants of the language incompatible with old programs will evolve naturally as people try to fix the language
17:50:04  b_jonas: it's true!
17:50:32  myname: also, cf. Mascarpoine
17:50:38  *Mascarpone
17:50:52  ?
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17:51:35  b_jonas: have you seen http://esolangs.org/wiki/Snowflake
17:51:39  it's sort of like that, except automatd
17:51:41  *automated
17:51:46  the language definition fixes itself over time
17:51:53  I don't have an interp, though
17:52:19  ais523: I had glanced at it earlier, but didn't understand much of it
17:52:42  this is a problem with my concepts that require a lot of effort to execute on
17:53:09  (the most extreme example being Feather, which not even I understand)
17:53:09  "feather"?
17:53:14  there's a "sather" language I think
17:53:27  http://esolangs.org/wiki/Feather
17:53:54  wow, has Feather stopped being a #esoteric meme some time in the last year? /me rejoices
17:54:09 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood).
17:54:17  is it related to sather besides rhiming the name?
17:54:40  no
17:55:25 -!- FireFly has joined.
17:56:39  it's basically a simple OO language that uses time travel for inheritance, is written entirely in itself (going back infinitely many layers), and is designed to look like Smalltalk except for different reasons
17:58:04  time travel.... wait, I have a writeup about that
17:58:11  (you might have seen it)
17:58:26  ais523: http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/git-extensions
17:58:44  I think that's even on-topic here
17:59:04  b_jonas: yeah, the first paragraph reminds me a lot of Scapegoat
17:59:14  which I have done like 2 hours of work on in the past year
18:01:02  the infinite history thing is reminiscent of Feather, though
18:01:17  ais523: yes, that's why I said time travel reminds me to it
18:01:30  although the way it's implemented in Feather is, it goes back finitely many levels, then if you try to go past the end of it it retroactively increases the number of levels it used
18:01:35  (well, besides that I explicitly mention time machine)
18:01:40  err, or would be implemented, if anyone had a clue how to mention Feather
18:02:16  right, I specifically say that: "These meta levels spring into existence lazily as you reference them, so if you reference meta^p-history for the first time, then the meta^q-history for all p < q is considered to always have contained a single default meta^p-branch."
18:02:58  ais523: it's not completely gone from lore tho. for instance...
18:03:03  `? ais523 
18:03:06  Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good.
18:03:06  *how to implement Feather
18:03:23  b_jonas: Feather isn't quite the same as laziness
18:03:39  given that it involves reconstructing the entire gamestate from scratch
18:05:11  gah, I'm too incoherent to write meaningful sentences
18:05:16  I should go sleep
18:05:17 -!- ais523 has quit.
18:05:21  oh :(
18:08:54  i lold @ lawful good
18:14:09  fungots fall on fungot falls
18:14:09  kmc: ( that is, levinson went to kish, disappeared, had on your behalf of the commission. at the moment. wheee, shiny.'). the solution is to produce the bonds i.e fnord between the karma and our fnord causeway. the scene uses hare coursing as a metaphor and may be fnord to other military genius, indeed, from country, have the fnord so fnord a series of really coy riddles about it and stop the eval loop, stable or otherwise fail
18:14:47  fungot: have you heard the new album by Levinson and the Commission
18:14:47  kmc: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there
18:15:03  i'm thinking the non-digit symbol is the best way to add input to ResPlicate. it doesn't matter that it will cause non-compliant interps to break since, a) there's really only one published interp right now and b) if a program needs user input, what it does couldn't be emulated by the current implementation anyway.
18:15:29  in which case I think a construction like n ? {n symbols} is the way to go
18:15:35  quintopia: well, you could have two versions of the language, one without input and one with input
18:16:09  b_jonas: or 90 VERSIONS OF THE LANGUAGE. RIGHT? RIGHT?
18:16:23  IS NINETY EVEN ENOUGH?
18:16:37  how many versions has python had
18:17:19  however, try to make the langauge definition as simple as possible. if it's universal with input just queueing a byte and pushing a single number between 0 and 257, make it do that even if it's harder to program
18:17:40  at least java had the class to update their language such that programs are forward-compatible
18:17:41  and make sure the input thing doesn't make programming easier
18:18:30  forget python, how many incompatible version did _ruby_ have? over ten I think
18:18:44  ruby guys are just not interested in compatibility 
18:18:51  b_jonas: of course it's universal with (whatever input method you want) because it's universal!
18:19:09  they rename methods removing the old name for as feeble reasons as deciding their name isn't perfect
18:19:53  quintopia: by universal, I don't mean it should just be turing-complete, but also that it should be able to emulate any bf program
18:19:57  theoretically
18:20:47  then say BF-complete
18:21:11  and yes, just enqueueing a byte from input would probably make it BF-complete
18:21:17 -!- Tritonio has joined.
18:21:29  since the n ? thing could then be done on the second pass
18:22:04  I can't confirm or deny that, because I really don't understand all this tag system queue language stuff
18:24:07  actually
18:24:21  hmmmmmmmm
18:25:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
18:29:03  yeah the current interpreter would interpreter 0 -1 exactly the same as 0 0, which means I could use -1 as the input
18:30:34  would the input just add the unicode codepoint to the end or do some encoding?
18:36:26  unicode code point? um
18:36:38  it would be better to input bytes imo
18:37:06  inputting unicode code points in this language could be dangerous. 
18:37:18  hmm, true
18:37:38  you could also make it input bits, but that might make programming too easy
18:37:46  still, it might be worth
18:37:53  it would make sense to change the output to bytes, too
18:39:22  yes that is what i am doing
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20:19:45  this place is sad with no oerjan and neither alex
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20:22:28  @bot
20:22:28  :)
20:22:37  all fungot all the time
20:22:38  kmc:, so i'd be happy to help an fnord archive), and, burning, and no clear account. in that second one is horizontally displaced by 1 pixel is sacred. just me, or i: yet, you rogue!
20:22:43  quintopia: see, lambdabot is happy ;)
20:42:02  fungot: is every pixel sacred, or just that one pixel?
20:42:02  FireFly: no, it's not. it's more complex than that. read the code.) good stuff like " thisfunction2 thislineofcode")) but have to seek. hee. i wan to faster finish the game could
20:42:47  fungot: sounds tricky
20:42:47  FireFly: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there
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21:23:43  error: failed to find an implementation of trait std::iter::FromIterator for [type error]
21:23:54  I want a language where you can define instances for type errors!
21:28:12  i thought that was usual in languages with object-oriented error shite
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21:48:19  https://twitter.com/puffnfresh/status/433348860413353984
21:49:59  I saw somebody claim that Satoshi solved the Byzantine Generals' problem...
21:56:07  "It’s like assembling Lego" it's funny how this exact thing has been said about every programming system since at least the dawn of OOP
21:59:26  "$2.6 million is a pretty hefty seed round. But given this startup’s provenance, it makes perfect sense." omg and the picture
21:59:50  why is there a startup for a package manager
22:00:44  Guest65497: it's because "Investors are churning around developer tools these days as software makers gain more and more control and mindshare in an increasingly crowded universe of data and devices"
22:00:56  ok
22:01:01  this totally makes sense and is not a nonsense sentence at all
22:14:04 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:21:34  Fun project: prove Haskell's lens library, on its own, without any functions not exported from Control.Lens or other modules in the library, is turing complete
22:22:35   ais523: do you think ResPairate would be TC with numcopies<=2? <-- i'd think it would, too.  e.g. the self-preservation prefix has that property, so there's no problem keeping things stable in one part of the queue, which means you can use as many cycles as you want to handle a single tag, which means you can multiply the alphabet in several doubling steps to get as many as you want.
22:23:08  all the offset stuff is just deleting to where you want to start anew, which is just 0 copies.
22:24:18 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:26:41  Taneb: well someone did fibonacci already, so it cannot be too hard...
22:26:55  oerjan, the fibonacci was me
22:27:10 -!- nisstyre has joined.
22:27:11  i vaguely thought so, but i couldn't find your post again
22:27:39  you should be eminently qualified for the project, then.
22:28:05  I defer to your experience in proving stupidly constrained systems turing complete
22:28:17  O KAY
22:30:08  I've got some ideas, though
22:33:38  I want to try http://mirrors.talideon.com/articles/qbal/
22:34:07  `pastelogs taneb.*fibonacci
22:34:09  ​/hackenv/bin/pastelogs: line 2: cd: /var/irclogs/_esoteric: No such file or directory \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16743
22:34:22  just for the despair, i did this.
22:34:42  It was... the week before last
22:35:17  Maybe Thursday
22:36:17  Definitely a weekday
22:36:50  "sumOf ignored" should be a good search tearm
22:39:00  well it was not any time between 27-30 january.  unless glogbot was down.
22:39:12  *-31
22:39:21  Ah, I was triple-wrong
22:39:26  It was the 2nd of February
22:40:13  http://codu.org/logs/log/_esoteric/2014-02-02#213420Taneb
22:41:58  Does Control.Lens export curried though?
22:42:09  > view curried (view simple) (sumOf ignored (&)) (productOf ignored (&)) ^.. over mapped (iterated ((over mapped (view flipped (mapped %~) (sumOf both ^. curried)) (over mapped (mapped %~) (view simple ^. curried))) ^. flipped & over mapped (perform (acts&mapped%~acts)) & review curried)) _1
22:42:11   [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,...
22:42:16  :t curried
22:42:17  (Functor f1, Profunctor p) => p (a -> b -> c) (f1 (d -> e -> f)) -> p ((a, b) -> c) (f1 ((d, e) -> f))
22:42:21  Ah
22:42:29  I was confusing it with curry
22:42:38  :t curried :: Iso' ((a, b) -> c) (a -> b -> c)
22:42:39  (Functor f, Profunctor p) => p (a -> b -> c) (f (a -> b -> c)) -> p ((a, b) -> c) (f ((a, b) -> c))
22:42:56  You could possibly make use of & to reduce the brackets
22:43:49  FreeFull, you're welcome to give it a go
22:44:21  the obvious thing is to extract ordinary functions like (.) const etc. somehow
22:44:36  :t over mapped `asTypeOf` (.)
22:44:37  (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
22:44:52  :t view simple `asTypeOf` id
22:44:53  a -> a
22:44:53  is asTypeOf exported by lens
22:45:08  well it's certainly not defined there
22:45:16  We don't need it
22:45:20  :t over mapped
22:45:21  Functor f => (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
22:45:21  oh right
22:45:32  > over mapped (+1) (*3) 4
22:45:34   13
22:45:46  Taneb: To be honest, I don't want to
22:46:02  :t view (view simple) `asTypeOf` const
22:46:03      Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = b0 -> a0
22:46:03      When using functional dependencies to combine
22:46:03        MonadReader r ((->) r),
22:46:05  oops
22:46:18  :t mapped
22:46:19  (Functor f, Settable f1) => (a -> f1 b) -> f a -> f1 (f b)
22:46:24  Handy
22:46:58  :t view
22:46:58  MonadReader s m => Getting a s a -> m a
22:47:24  :t view id `asTypeOf` const
22:47:25      Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a0 = b0 -> a0
22:47:25      When using functional dependencies to combine
22:47:25        MonadReader r ((->) r),
22:47:36  view id == id
22:47:37  :t view id
22:47:38  MonadReader s m => m s
22:47:47  hm ok
22:48:07  :t over ixed
22:48:08  Not in scope: `ixed'
22:48:17  oh right it's return which is const, not ask
22:48:27  :t over mapped over ixed
22:48:28  Not in scope: `ixed'
22:48:30  :t over mapped over ix
22:48:31  (Indexable (Index t) p, Ixed Mutator t) => Index t -> p (IxValue t) (IxValue t) -> t -> t
22:48:39  Nope
22:48:50  :t over return
22:48:50  Anyway, I'm off now
22:48:50      Couldn't match type `p0 a0' with `Mutator'
22:48:50      Expected type: Setting p0 s0 (Mutator b0) a0 b0
22:48:50        Actual type: p0 a0 (Mutator b0) -> s0 -> p0 a0 (Mutator b0)
22:49:06  It's handy how id is the identity lens
22:52:02 -!- ion has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
22:52:05  :t view (over mapped curried _1)
22:52:06  (MonadReader ((a1, b) -> c) m, Field1 (a1 -> b -> c) (a1 -> b -> c) a a) => m a
22:52:16  :t view (over mapped curried _1) `asTypeOf` const
22:52:17  Field1 (a -> b -> c) (a -> b -> c) (b1 -> (a, b) -> c) (b1 -> (a, b) -> c) => ((a, b) -> c) -> b1 -> (a, b) -> c
22:52:26  hm nope.
22:52:49  :t view curried _1 `asTypeOf` const
22:52:50      Could not deduce (Indexable Int (,)) arising from a use of `_1'
22:52:50      from the context (Functor f, Field1 s t (s -> f t) b)
22:52:50        bound by the inferred type of
22:52:59  :t review curried _1 `asTypeOf` const
22:53:00      Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
22:53:00        b0 = p0 a0 (b1 -> b0)
22:53:00      When using functional dependencies to combine
22:53:04  bah
22:53:11  not thinking clearly enough.
22:53:20  oh hm
22:53:36  :t view curried (view _1)
22:53:37  a -> b -> a
22:53:41  there you go
22:54:16  :t curry fst
22:54:17  c -> b -> c
22:54:25  Anyone know of any Q-Bal interpreters?
22:57:28  :t set both
22:57:29  b -> (a, a) -> (b, b)
22:57:58  hm pesky unnecessary argument
22:58:02  :t set each
22:58:04  Each Mutator s t a b => b -> s -> t
22:58:40  oerjan: Technically ('a','a') is fully syntax
22:58:41  > set both 1 undefined
22:58:44   (1,1)
22:58:55  undefined isn't
22:59:07  FreeFull: i don't think Taneb wants constructors from outside lens
22:59:21  even if they're sugared
22:59:39  How about prisms?
22:59:47  Is there a tuple prism?
23:00:25  prisms are for data types with more than one constructor, mainly...
23:00:54  well, "structural" prisms are
23:01:22  but of course you can have a prism for anything that you can express as a sum
23:01:43  Prism' s a = exists r. s ~ (Either r a)
23:02:17 -!- Speed` has joined.
23:03:06  Is the Left value useful for anything other than the constructor itself?
23:06:41  :t both
23:06:42  Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> (a, a) -> f (b, b)
23:06:57 -!- ion has joined.
23:08:50  :t joined
23:08:51      Not in scope: `joined'
23:08:51      Perhaps you meant `join' (imported from Control.Monad.Writer)
23:08:58  worth a try :P
23:11:57  Seems a Q-BAL interpreter doesn't exist ):
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23:20:18   this place is sad with no oerjan and neither alex <-- there are two alex?
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2014-02-12:

00:10:22 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2).
00:13:37  oerjan: boily
00:14:30  oerjan: do you know if it's to convert all tag systems into a form where no production produces more than two symbols?
00:21:00  i think you accidentally a lot
00:23:18  i shall assume the missing word is "evil", in which case the answer is "maybe".
00:24:31  oh hm
00:24:56  i don't know about the question you are trying to ask.
00:25:23  hm...
00:25:28 -!- tromp_ has joined.
00:27:22  quintopia: BOO!
00:28:31 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:39:51  oerjan: wow. i typed out every word in that sentence, i'm sure of it. lag!
00:40:14  lag shouldn't work that way.
00:40:27  it does with mosh sometimes
00:40:30  they invented tcp for a reason, you know.
00:40:34  mosh uses udp
00:40:49  The Kindle Paperwhite keyboard sucks
00:40:54  bbl
00:41:16  mosh won't drop / reorder keystrokes though
00:41:20  it has its own reliable transport on top of udp
00:41:24  tell the mosh people they'd better have this fixed in good time before i take over the world, or they'll be SORRY.
00:41:44  Does mosh client work well in cygwin on Windows yet??
00:42:25  quintopia: if you are asking this as an intermediate stage for resPairate-2, i'm not sure that's a good idea.
00:42:53  it seems to me that tag systems are too rigid to make that convenient.
00:46:09 * oerjan wonders if quintopia is lagged by several minutes.
00:46:38  well, not at the /ping level
00:47:24 -!- nisstyre has joined.
00:50:28  Sgeo: Guest65497: you were just deregistered from Agora hth
00:51:09  Thanks
00:51:28  I was planning on reading the ruleset too
00:51:29  :/
00:51:47  you can reregister, i believe.
00:54:30  How're things going
00:55:17  well there have been some major simplifications.  also there's a new game with complex number scores, and piracy.
00:55:36 * oerjan is just watching.
01:04:13 -!- tertu has joined.
01:20:07  "I finally heard what happened to our building. Someone was playing ski-ball in an office and hit a sprinkler"
01:21:19  :D
01:21:48  stupid, stupid industry
01:23:16  That reminds me
01:23:27  I kind of want to do some sort of summer internship this summer
01:26:10  But I have no idea where to look :/
01:26:13  oerjan: well what is a good place to start then? (i'm also asking it in case it makes it possible to have smaller UTMs)
01:27:19  i found out i need two letters of rec for any good internship so i'm p. doomed
01:27:52  does taneb have recommendations
01:28:13  Bike, I... probably could get some
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01:28:40  Dear Bike: Internships are good for experience. I recommend you get some. Love, Quintopia
01:29:04  quintopia: i was thinking you can make an active tag that takes one cycle to add each prepended tag
01:31:54  i guess i could use an irrelevant one
01:32:16  probably can't ask my boss for one soon enough to get the one that looked really interesting, sigh
01:32:21 -!- Gdlckmywy has joined.
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01:33:22  and all passive tags have self-preservation prefixes
01:34:23  oerjan: and how do you stop it when it's done?
01:34:48  So where is a good start for looking for internships
01:35:21  quintopia: by deleting the remainder...
01:35:35  and the necessary following tags, naturally
01:36:18 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:37:27  an active tag would have something like the format 
n 2 ... n 2 01:37:45 Taneb: bulletin boards at your school 01:37:46 or wait 01:38:16 an active tag would have something like the format
n 2 n 2 01:38:38 Bike: I think when you're still a student you don't need super relevant recs 01:38:55 then the header can use the first set to prepend whatever, and to produce the header for the next cycle 01:39:25 while the second set gets reduplicated each cycle 01:39:41 kmc: i'd be applying for an NSF thing rather than 'just an internship' though, you get thousands in room and board and shit like that 01:39:44 oh 01:39:49 i'm just antsy about applying for things probably 01:40:00 in that case though there are probably a lot of people around who've done it before and can help you 01:40:12 the prepended stuff can probably take a cycle to settle down into the right format too. 01:41:39 since it gets "run" before the next step of the active one. 01:42:48 so the active one prepends a bunch of copies? 01:43:18 or one at a time? 01:43:25 one per cycle 01:43:47 so that you don't need to more than double stuff per cycle 01:46:23 and you get some extra slack from the extra cycle for the prepended tag representation. 01:47:20 so you would prend n copies of the 'double this symbol' tag, and then each on executes one per cycle? 01:48:29 that got garbled... 01:49:05 prend=prepend 01:49:08 on=one 01:49:45 i don't understand what you mean. 01:50:08 i don't understand what you mean, so it sounds fair 01:50:48 hm two alphabet copies per might be enough. 01:51:19 the first gets passed to the prepended ... oh hm. 01:51:21 what is
supposed to do? 01:52:06 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:52:14 i think we need 3, this still needs to use ais523's misalignment trick. 01:53:45 because it's the simplest way to pass to arbitrary code _after_ you've copied the alphabet. 01:55:40
will prepend a proto-header for the prepended tag, then delete to a spot inside the first alphabet copy; this spot then doubles a misaligned alphabet for the prepended tag to use, after which ... hm maybe 2 is enough anyway. 01:56:42 the part of the alphabet _after_ the cutoff will prepare the header for the next cycle of the active tag. 01:59:05 * oerjan has a slight headache, which isn't helping. 02:00:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:01:45 'will prepend a proto-header for the prepended tag' this doesn't seem very rigorously stated. i'll wait until your headache goes away :P 02:03:48 well the proto-header's job would be to mangle the prepended tag into its final passive form on the next cycle. 02:27:28 -!- tertu has joined. 02:29:51 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:33:55 -!- tertu has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 02:34:12 -!- tertu has joined. 02:52:27 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:24:08 -!- tertu has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 03:24:39 -!- tertu has joined. 03:29:40 -!- solis has joined. 03:29:48 -!- solis has left ("Leaving"). 03:36:04 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:39:00 The dice server is still up? 03:39:01 o.O 03:42:26 -!- tertu has joined. 03:46:08 which one 03:47:14 nomic.net, presumably 03:48:52 i'm glad the responses are PGP encrypted 03:49:24 er, signed 03:55:04 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:55:23 -!- quintopia has joined. 03:58:59 (this has come up because the new agora speaker has made a policy to select judges randomly from the candidates) 04:03:10 SatoshiDice uses a random number generation procedure which is retrospectively verifiable 04:05:30 they have published a committment to a HMAC key for each of the next many days, using Bitcoin as a timestamping service 04:06:02 every day they reveal the previous day's key and you can verify that it matches the committment 04:06:49 and the randomness for bets is generated by HMACing some public information about the bet 04:07:29 but this might not work for games where some rolls need to remain secret for a long time 04:10:31 "Some consider it to be DDoS attack against the Bitcoin network since it is bypassing the built-in anti-DDoS features of Bitcoin (transaction fees)." 04:13:18 how does it circument fees 04:23:36 games? what kind of games we talkin here 04:29:39 the most dangerous game 04:30:05 what? 04:30:40 transaction fees are considered an anti-DDOS mechanism? 04:31:06 it seems that SD requires bets to have a fee, which makes them go through quickly, and could be considered an aggressive move of some kind, but doesn't seem at all like "bypassing" the mechanism 04:31:29 it's not so much "bypassing" as "using it exactly as intended" 04:31:32 yeah 04:31:42 a fine distinction 04:31:46 people were annoyed when it started taking up half the volume of transactions 04:31:58 but that's about it 04:39:22 see i'm just imaginign someone using this for D&D 04:52:30 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:04:13 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 05:05:30 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:06:03 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:10:31 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:16:56 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:51:14 `dis86 48c7042500004000efbead0b 05:51:15 mov qword [0x400000], 0xbadbeef; 05:58:21 well i published the thing http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2014/02/x86-is-turing-complete-with-no-registers.html 05:59:24 Slereah: ^ i said i would send you a link 05:59:29 probably said that to other people but i forgot 06:03:48 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 06:15:51 kmc: Neat. 06:21:19 Somehow I suspect the branch predictor isn't that fond of this. 06:42:21 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:45:50 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 06:46:35 -!- Sellyme has joined. 06:59:20 heh 06:59:38 Linux's perf can measure that... 06:59:42 I don't have it working on this machine though 07:18:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:37:02 oh jeez https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Security/Conceptual/cryptoservices/RandomNumberGenerationAPIs/RandomNumberGenerationAPIs.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40011172-CH12-SW1 07:37:10 kmc: i like how you link to esolangs.org for Turing-complete 07:37:10 spot the bug in this security critical code example 07:37:14 thx shachaf 07:37:25 probably a better discussion of the relevant issues for this sort of thing 07:37:46 I think that's what I concluded, yeah 07:40:52 what's the bug 07:43:09 kmc: gah, that's bad 07:43:25 I couldn't spot it for ages, but I was reading the code top to bottom, and it's in the last nontrivial line 07:43:46 yeah 07:44:03 wait, no, I thought the shift was wrong, but now I'm not sure it is 07:44:14 oh yes, it is 07:44:21 I think (c << (8 * i)) gets promoted to int which actually makes the whole thing UB 07:44:23 the left operand to the shift's a uint8_t 07:44:27 and the right hand side's a plain int 07:44:28 but at the minimum, it won't get promoted above unsigned int 07:44:38 so you can't guarantee that any shifts larger than 24 work correctly 07:45:04 needs a cast to uint64_t on c 07:45:24 kmc: re that post you linked to, you say "Many RISC architectures also allow" indirect jump 07:45:44 kmc: I don't think that's a risc thing, the 6502 also has an indirect jump instruction 07:45:48 is shifting a signed int by more than the number of bits UB? 07:46:00 b_jonas: right, I didn't mean it's exclusively a RISC thing, just that it's not a particular x86 CISC weirdness 07:47:01 kmc: yes, and shifting it by 31 would produce the wrong result 07:47:09 kmc: Shifting any int (signed or unsigned) by more than the number of bits is UB. 07:47:16 in fact I think that's a really strange instruction in 6502 because it loads has 2 bytes of address in the instruction then loads 2 bytes indirectly using that (though there's a bug when the indirect address lies on a page boundary), and that whole thing executes in just too few clock cycles to be possible on that cpu 07:47:26 kmc: s/more than/more than or equal/ 07:47:34 fizzie: ouch 07:48:22 it supposedly runs in 5 clock cycles, which is strange 07:48:37 "If the value of the right operand is negative or is greater than or equal to the width of the promoted left operand, the behavior is undefined." (C11 6.5.7p3) 07:48:51 thanks fizzie (what's a good link for C11?) 07:49:02 don't tell me you forked over the CHF for an official copy 07:49:06 but I guess it's possible 07:49:11 b_jonas: weird 07:49:17 i have heard about that bug, too 07:49:18 kmc: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf is the latest draft. 07:49:26 kmc: n1570.pdf is a draft from just before it was released 07:49:41 it's not 100% accurate to C11, but it's pretty close 07:49:45 kmc: There's also an unofficial HTML conversion at http://www.iso-9899.info/n1570.html 07:50:08 it makes sense afterall, the stuff that takes lots of time in other instructions is adding an index register to a 16-bit absolute address which has to fit AFTER loading the address but BEFORE the actual operation executes 07:50:13 (Can be useful on, say, some mobile device that doesn't cope well with a 701-page pdf.) 07:50:41 heh 07:51:18 web browser developers like to use "the web platform spec as a single page" as a stress test :) 07:52:01 Also, I strongly suspect bitshifting unsigned ints doesn't have the usual "result is reduced modulo 2^width" rule because that'd complicate the implementation on those many, many systems that do something like "mask shift count to K bits". 07:52:32 ah, I see 07:52:38 fizzie: yes, IIRC that's the normally given rationale for "out of range shifts are UB" 07:52:57 apparently the indexed 16-bit instructions take 1 cycle more when there's a carry in adding the index. that's clever 07:53:06 fwiw, out of range shifts in Verity just give 0 (or possibly produce invalid output), but that's because I only allow shifts by constants 07:55:06 The shift operators also differ from many other binary operators in that the type of the result is determined based on only the left operand, and the type of the right operand is ignored. ("The description of shift operators in K&R suggests that shifting by a long count should force the left operand to be widened to long before being shifted. A more intuitive practice, endorsed by the C89 ... 07:55:12 ... Committee, is that the type of the shift count has no bearing on the type of the result." -- C99 rationale.) 07:55:36 The C11 rationale document seems to be still not done. 07:55:47 there's a rationale document separate from the spec? 07:55:56 Yes. 07:56:13 i'm imagining this as like "C11: the unauthorized biography" 07:56:17 "Yes, there are plans to update the existing Rationale to include C11. Since it's an informal document, there's no planned ETA, but it's on our to-do list." (from January 31, 2012.) 07:56:17 yep, it's unofficial, it's the committee saying "here's why we did things the way we did" 07:56:22 tales of wild after-hours cocaine parties on the ISO 9899 committee 07:56:35 "fuck you, that's why" 07:56:46 "thought it was funny" 07:56:48 ☠ UNDEFINED BEHAVIOR ☠ 07:56:49 probably for much the same reason that many websites have FAQs 07:56:56 "after enough drugs it seemed like a good idea, that's why" 07:57:17 i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?" 07:57:22 "the editor didn't realize it was a joke" 07:57:50 speaking of enough drugs, http://junkyardmessiah.tumblr.com/post/76403947862/chaoscontrolled123-luke-and-i-were-looking-at 07:57:54 Incidentally, recently came across this, the committee response is somehow quite amusing: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_257.htm 07:57:55 600 year old butt-song from hell 07:58:20 DRs cost quite a bit of money to file 08:00:13 They do? I've always sort of assumed anyone can go and submit them. 08:00:22 Based on things like http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_404.htm 08:01:13 fizzie: anyone can, but they have to pay a bunch of money to do so 08:01:48 is "decay" used in the standard for arrays decaying to pointers? 08:02:05 fizzie: haha 08:03:18 olsner: No. it's an entirely unofficial term. 08:03:29 Common, though. 08:03:49 (The only instance of the word "decay" in N1570 is that joke.) 08:09:50 anyway, I'd say the DR isn't a joke 08:10:00 "a joke was left in the standard by mistake" is an actual bug report 08:11:43 they have to make it expensive otherwise people will submit DRs like "pls change all the syntax to Lisp", like Rust gets >_> 08:14:05 so you're saying that C and Something Awful use the same strategy to deter trolls 08:14:30 It is an actual bug report, sure, but the kind of thing I wouldn't expect a random individual to make, if they had to pay for the privilege. 08:14:48 (I suppose it could be just someone rich enough.) 08:15:06 Bike: hahaha 08:15:51 most DRs are filed by companies, I think, especially compiler manufacturers 08:16:02 as long as you can buy redtext for another committee member 08:19:18 maybe they paid for some number of DRs in a year and were running out of time to file them all 08:19:37 Defect report procedures applying to JTC1/SC22/WG14 (the C standards workgroup) seem to be hard to Google for. (Some of the other JTC1 subcommittees have them more obviously in the web.) 08:20:24 i wonder if any OS X bitcoin apps used that example code to generate DSA signature nonces 08:20:25 "This [submitting a DR] is supposed to happen through your National Body (a Standard-defining Organization which is itself part of ISO, such as ANSI for the USA), which will formally submit it to JTC1/SC22 or its subsidiary WG14 ("the committee".) -- In less bureaucratic terms, yet quite a bit more efficiently, you can try contact with the convenor of WG14 (who is also allowed to formally ... 08:20:31 ... submit defect report.)" 08:25:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:25:20 -!- glogbot has joined. 08:25:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:25:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:26:11 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:26:14 olsner: remember that Debian OpenSSL issue? 08:26:21 -!- luserdroog has joined. 08:27:11 olsner: It's a terrible shame uint64_t isn't allowed to have any padding bits, otherwise the answer to that question would be "because fread might end up generating a trap representation". 08:28:18 does Apple support any architectures that have trap representations anyway? 08:28:34 I was thinking about "something something endianness" as another possible explanation 08:28:55 Probably not. 08:29:13 I don't even know of any architectures that have integers with trap representations. 08:30:23 (Whoops, have to go a lunch.) 08:31:22 a fried fungot sandwich 08:31:22 kmc: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue! all about macros, a wonderful!' i am sorry, in particular candidate countries. if the transatlantic relationship, but the parliament has possessed him, yet he talkes well, it's open source 08:34:14 fungot: what's your endian? 08:34:14 olsner: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going, tough one. if we solve it,...) 08:36:21 * kmc falls asleep 08:37:30 [noobie-q] fungot is bot, right? 08:37:30 luserdroog: to " print" statement should always remember the songs on p2p apps in scheme, besides, was not beyond normal credibility 08:38:13 Does defender, haste do anything interesting? 08:38:24 Well, lets you tap the creature when it comes out 08:38:30 If you have need to 08:38:37 too much pressure! what do i do? 08:38:49 Sgeo: there's a card in Future Sight with defender, haste, and a tap ability 08:38:56 remember the songs on p2p apps in steam, duh 08:38:57 luserdroog: are you a bot? fungot is 08:38:57 ais523:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov 08:39:01 ais523: wwas looking at that 08:39:23 I should look at Future Sight more closely, it seems almost like an UN-set 08:39:26 I understood "markov" :) 08:39:52 mischievous little dwarf! 08:40:14 ^style fungot 08:40:14 Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself) 08:40:41 `relcome luserdroog 08:40:42 ​luserdroog: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:41:13 ooo colors! 08:41:23 http://unemployedprofessors.com/Index.aspx lol 08:41:31 Sgeo: I think the Magic playerbase is split between the people who think Future Sight was the most awesome set ever, and people who don't like it 08:41:36 it's quite polarizing 08:41:38 my language is going nowhere. 08:42:11 never got into magic. 08:42:21 my cousins did pokemon 08:42:41 although yugioh was a far superior cartoon 08:42:58 I dislike Magic nowadays 08:43:04 o.O 08:43:13 or rather, I like reading about it, but don't feel much pressure to actually play it, or buy any cards 08:43:46 fungot: where did i go wrong 08:43:46 Bike: i just wrote :p ( what was i thinking 08:43:56 i don't know what i was thinking :( 08:44:22 I thought it was Zork at first 08:45:09 Hm "Legend of Zork" would be a fun title. 08:45:40 In the game-within-a-game you could play zork on virtual telex 08:46:40 been reading too many programming books, have to make everything recursive! 08:47:07 or ... shudder ... "inductive" 08:48:19 inceptive 08:49:22 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 08:55:36 -!- FireFly has joined. 08:57:54 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2). 09:06:53 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:10:30 Hm. There was a group of about 30-50 people, with banners and such, out there on the street; they were playing (loudly) the song "They're Taking the Hobbits to Isengard" out of some kind of portable stereo. 09:11:47 sounds like a pretty amenable group 09:19:23 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:19:36 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:22:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:24:54 -!- Sellyme has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:36:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:42:43 -!- mekeor has joined. 09:52:20 -!- luserdroog has joined. 10:10:31 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:18:07 I thought Isengard was in Sweden 10:21:43 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:24:31 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:28:32 -!- mekeor has quit (Quit: :)). 10:29:41 They could well be taking the hobbits to Sweden. 10:29:53 a chilling thought 10:35:48 "Isengard (SE) - Epic Melodic Power Metal from Vikingstad, Sweden." 10:37:09 Is Vikingstad anywhere near Gondor 10:40:56 It seems to be right next to Linköping. Wasn't olsner from there? 10:41:33 "We could not understand the location gondor, sweden. Suggestions: Make sure all street and city names are spelled correctly." 10:44:56 There's a Gondorf near Bitburg, Germany, though. 10:46:37 (Named after Ganondorf, I'm sure.) 10:50:42 https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Vikingstad,+Sweden&daddr=Mordor,+Alkmaar,+Netherlands 10:51:22 One does not simply drive and so on. 10:51:41 "This route has tolls." Oh, I'm sure it does. 10:53:48 “This route crosses through multiple countries.” 10:55:05 "This route has giant spiders guarding Cirith Ungol." 10:56:26 (Well, that wasn't there. But to be fair, they do say "Walking directions are in beta. Use caution – This route may be missing sidewalks, giant spiders or pedestrian paths.") 10:58:40 -!- w00tles has joined. 11:14:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:11:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:22:49 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 12:25:02 -!- Sellyme has joined. 12:30:31 -!- yorick has joined. 12:55:46 -!- tertu has joined. 13:21:12 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 13:23:31 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:34:48 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 13:35:31 -!- Sellyme has joined. 13:36:53 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:39:18 -!- augur has joined. 13:39:45 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:43:21 -!- constant has changed nick to trout. 13:53:34 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:53:57 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:00:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:05:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:07:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:17:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:42:16 `addquote i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?" 14:42:17 1169) i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?" 14:45:17 `help 14:45:17 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 14:45:38 especially the FAQ about HackEgo's recent move. 14:57:25 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 14:57:41 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:59:38 -!- augur has joined. 15:26:40 * ski idly wonders what "ski-ball" might be 15:39:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:42:45 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:42:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:42:47 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 15:51:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:51:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:51:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:52:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:52:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:52:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:52:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:52:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:52:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:53:42 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:53:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:53:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:54:32 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:54:36 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:54:37 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:55:22 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:55:26 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:55:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:56:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:56:16 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:56:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:57:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:57:03 -!- glogbot has joined. 15:57:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:57:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 15:57:55 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 16:03:42 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 16:08:24 -!- Tritonio has joined. 16:08:25 -!- w00tles has joined. 16:09:47 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:17:51 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 16:22:25 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:34:23 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:37:47 -!- w00tles has joined. 16:37:50 -!- w00tles has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:38:27 -!- w00tles has joined. 16:38:29 -!- w00tles has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 16:39:07 -!- w00tles has joined. 16:43:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:54:32 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:01:30 -!- tertu has joined. 17:05:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:07:28 -!- utkarsh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:08:52 -!- utkarsh has joined. 17:08:54 -!- utkarsh has quit (Changing host). 17:08:54 -!- utkarsh has joined. 17:09:17 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 17:12:54 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:17:04 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:22:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 17:30:00 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:32:29 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 17:46:11 -!- w00tles has joined. 17:58:53 fizzie: that mordor trip would only take 220 hours walking continuously! you could do it in a month or so! 17:58:59 -!- tertu has joined. 17:59:40 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:59:40 -!- utkarsh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:59:52 quintopia : You have my axe! 18:00:22 in this tiny font with no glasses i read that as sex 18:00:39 i was going to guess male 18:01:12 You are thinking of a different book. 18:01:18 Lord of the Cockring, possibly 18:01:31 Cock of the Ring 18:01:58 snowmageddon part2 seems to be less of a disaster than the first so far. people can learn! 18:03:11 -!- utkarsh has joined. 18:16:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:43:11 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:49:24 fizzie: I'm not from here, I just happen to live here :) 18:49:35 vikingstad is in the middle of nowhere 18:52:17 Well, you're sort of emanating from there at the moment, anyway. 18:52:51 Incidentally, we'll probably stop for a night in Linköping somewhere in June. 18:53:04 So... what's there to see/do there? 18:53:49 dunno, I don't really see or do stuff too much 18:54:25 I'll just check Wikipedia, then. 18:55:14 "Linköping offers a wealth of leisure activities to people of all ages. Residents and visitors are able to enjoy art, theatre, history, concerts, markets, festivals and sporting events." 18:55:21 "This article is written like a travel guide rather than an encyclopedic description of the subject. Please help improve it by rewriting it in an encyclopedic style." 18:55:24 You don't say. 18:55:57 there's an aviation museum somewhere outside of linköping, some people have found that interesting 18:59:52 -!- Tritonio has joined. 19:01:40 Oh, you're one of those places with a river. 19:01:46 (I've spoken on the topic before.) 19:02:19 indeed. (why would you speak about my river?) 19:02:33 Not your river, just cities with rivers and my river-envy. 19:02:48 (There's no river to speak of here.) 19:03:06 why river-envy? 19:03:13 if that's your kind of thing you can go on boat rides on the river, through locks and stuff 19:03:16 I don't know, there's just something about rivers. 19:03:31 there's something about river tam 19:05:12 does the One Cockring also give you a permanent erection 19:05:23 a permanent evil erection? 19:07:58 http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Link%C3%B6ping 19:09:29 almost every great city has a river or is adjacent to a large body of water 19:11:09 or a fungot 19:11:09 kmc: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over.... 19:12:52 oh, there's also a lake nearby (10km ish) 19:13:18 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:21:13 Google Maps has, for some strange reason, Vättern marked as "vattern" (with a lowercase first letter), with "Vättern" under it in smaller type. 19:21:19 Vänern is just "Vänern". 19:21:27 Something must be up with that. 19:22:26 "IT-ceum. Is a computer and computing museum, located in Mjärdevi Science Park where you will find many of Linköping's IT companies. The museum covers both ancient Swedish computers and more current events, such as the demo scene with its realtime multimedia productions. The exhibitions describe both the technical and the social aspects of computing. The museum's signs are both in Swedish ... 19:22:32 ... and in English. Free entry." 19:22:34 Huh. 19:28:06 it seems to have moved since that wiki page was written 19:43:58 "However, instead of putting the language [to block Tesla from operating stores in Ohio] on the Senate floor as a standalone bill, the ban was inserted as an amendment to Senate Bill 137--an unrelated bill that required Ohio drivers to move to the left while passing roadside maintenance vehicles." 19:44:05 That's always so sneaky. 19:44:34 I think I remember something very similar from the European Parliament. 19:46:18 What's a good queue-based language for me to try? And please don't say fueue 19:46:25 cool, demoscene stuff in a museum? 19:46:33 is that a big deal in sweden as well as finland? 19:47:18 FreeFull: Qdeql? 19:48:21 well, still quite small I'd say, but big for being demoscene I guess 19:48:28 fizzie: Something less tarpitty? Although I suppose I should give Qdeql a try anyway 19:48:48 Maybe Sceql 19:49:15 Mmm, nah 19:50:02 Just start going through Category:Queue-based in asciibetical order. 19:51:54 * kmc imagines glorious winters in a snow-covered cabin, spending the sunless days drinking akvavit, frying reindeer sausage over a wood fire, writing MBR demos, and fucking on a big bearskin rug 19:52:10 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:54:29 Imagine if the alphabet was named after english letters instead 19:54:31 It'd be the aybee 19:55:16 kmc: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/59/c4/8d59c48bb992eb030dd6e5766206d18c.jpg was included in the monthly departmental email. 19:55:56 kmc: (Though in all honestly winters here in Southern Finland can be pretty "meh"; like the one we're currently having.) 19:56:03 :) 19:58:49 this week in San Francisco: 16°C and partly cloudy 19:58:57 we're having our worst-ever drought though 19:59:02 got a little rain last week but not nearly enough 19:59:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:01:00 there's already a "Hack the Drought" hackathon scheduled 20:01:06 if that doesn't solve the problem then I don't know what will 20:01:50 <`^_^v> droughts can only be remedied by harnessing the power of node.js + mongodb 20:01:52 This week in Espoo: days around 1-2 °C, nights around -1°C to zero. Lots of fog and slush. 20:06:02 I had this thought I'd take a photo of the university main building every morning, then align them and... well, do some sort of a composite. Maybe just average or use some other aggregate function, or reorder them with a 1D SOM or something and animate. Whatever. 20:06:48 Here's a representative single frame: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140212-tkk.jpg 20:07:23 `^_^v understands 20:07:24 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/^_^v: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/^_^v: cannot execute: Permission denied 20:11:31 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:16:01 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:19:53 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 20:39:48 `coins 20:39:50 hroughcoin datecoin orretuatecoin regopsitzcoin stacoin neurcoin mespuncoin bfercoin anicerynxcoin mecorcoin mourcoin testfribacoin fingpensivecoin gramblincoin parcoin aniscoin cowcoin finicoin anemationcoin twormulacoin 20:40:54 Over here all the snow has melted over the past week; now there's not even any slush left 20:41:20 By this rate we'll have spring in time for the sports break when you typically go north to ski 20:41:27 s/By/At/ 20:42:39 `cat bin/coins 20:42:40 words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 20:44:42 `run sed -i 's/20/\${1-&}/' bin/coins; coins 20:44:45 billecoin eemcoin mancoin fmcoin lobolcoin lockcoin toncoin eturacoin kippingcoin admirilcoin m-codycoin vetcoin bombincoin machelpcoin threkellcoin miniction2coin lewaycoin conveycoin laancoin udacidcoin 20:44:51 `coins 5 20:44:53 feiffcoin fcrewcoin denteriftycoin epidcoin tgtecoin 20:45:20 `coins --finnish 20:45:21 mäßcoin 20:45:51 I'm pretty sure finnish does not use 'ß' 20:46:11 nortti: Perhaps --esolangs does. 20:46:17 `coins --swedish 10 20:46:19 dadecoin nuttcoin geninicoin itetunacoin autopingcoin delacoin ddgeecoin norftendocoin amulacoin spazioncoin 20:55:08 who the hell came up with 1 *and a half* stop bit? 20:55:23 buh? 20:55:37 1 was too little, 2 was too much? 20:56:45 vt100 defaults to 1.5 stop bits and can't be changed, MESS' verious serial emulation stuff doesn't seem to have code for talking to that 20:56:49 When the CCITT… was standardizing ATM, parties from the United States wanted a 64-byte payload…; parties from Europe wanted 32-byte payloads. Most of the European parties eventually came around to the arguments made by the Americans, but France and a few others held out… 48 bytes (plus 5 header bytes = 53) was chosen as a compromise between the two sides." 20:57:02 s/^/"/ 20:57:09 :-D 20:59:09 I think I've wondered where the 53 octet frame size comes from. 21:00:39 (but note that MESS emulates 1.5 stop bits well enough that the simulated null modem sending 1 stop bit *doesn't* work) 21:07:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:12:49 -!- conehead has joined. 21:35:38 http://terrycavanaghgames.com/maverickbird/ 21:38:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:39:39 -!- shikhin has joined. 21:42:07 sup 21:55:40 -!- Sorella has joined. 21:57:01 ion: owie. I reached 10, time to give up :) 21:57:07 nice 21:57:13 I got fed up at 6 21:58:13 so at 10 you get a orange circle described as a "bronze medal" 21:59:01 FreeFull: ResPlicate!!! :D 21:59:26 more tarpitty is better 21:59:54 -!- utkarsh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:00:04 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:00:23 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:02:10 -!- myndzi has joined. 22:06:07 -!- utkarsh has joined. 22:08:09 -!- trn has joined. 22:13:57 How can you command GCC to output all preprocessor macros? 22:15:57 it's not a flappy bird clone is it 22:16:05 worst game 22:16:08 zzo38: As in, a list of them? 22:16:15 FreeFull: Yes 22:16:18 No idea 22:19:00 `run gcc -dM -E - < /dev/null 22:19:01 ​#define __DBL_MIN_EXP__ (-1021) \ #define __UINT_LEAST16_MAX__ 65535 \ #define __ATOMIC_ACQUIRE 2 \ #define __FLT_MIN__ 1.17549435082228750797e-38F \ #define __UINT_LEAST8_TYPE__ unsigned char \ #define __INTMAX_C(c) c ## L \ #define __CHAR_BIT__ 8 \ #define __UINT8_MAX__ 255 \ #define __WINT_MAX__ 4294967295U \ #define __ORDER_LITTLE_ENDIAN__ 1 22:26:31 oh it's better than flappy bird. but still just as ridiculously hard. best i can get is 10 22:30:59 flappy gcc 22:31:09 up down up up down 22:31:32 there must be a brainfuck clone in this, somewhere. 22:31:51 there's a brainfuck clone in everything 22:32:00 that's how the light gets in 22:33:06 challenge: invent a flappy bird level such that the only way to win is input a sequence corresponding to a particular flappy-bf program at one second intervals 22:34:19 http://sprunge.us/YRgK ... done :) 22:34:49 Flappyfuck. 22:37:22 quintopia: that sounds sort of interesting. 22:39:01 not to me 22:39:03 have fun 22:40:42 I'm not sure whether it would be fun. 22:41:31 Kind of funny that it needs to be "- < /dev/null" (or "-x c /dev/null") instead of just "/dev/null". 22:43:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:47:34 fizzie: that mordor trip would only take 220 hours walking continuously! you could do it in a month or so! <-- one does not simply walk into mordor hth 22:48:25 I kinda-sorta alluded to that already. 22:48:42 (Earlier in the logs, I guess.) 22:50:38 oerjan: http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=363 22:51:38 int-e: heh 22:58:27 less than 2 minutes till tomorrow, good night. 23:01:45 23 hours till tomorrow 23:05:04 oerjan: Perhaps you should fly into, or teleport into, so that they don't expect you. 23:06:45 zzo38: see int-e's link 23:07:55 O, the other one. 23:08:14 No I don't want to load any web browser right now, but maybe later 23:10:38 hi zzo38 23:29:08 `cat bin/^_^v 23:29:09 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo No comment. 23:29:31 `run chmod +x bin/^_^v 23:29:32 No output. 23:30:00 `coins 23:30:02 rnarycoin 224coin aaicoin snaccoin tifcoin glucoin arambcoin disoroscoin lesunneccoin oftcoin perfcoin prolamicroncoin scolacoin meroscoin thcoin tipsoncoin stalkacoin ximalcoin wikicoin boulacoin 23:30:50 glucoin has few users, but they tend to stick together. 23:31:39 They also tend to have hyperglycemia. 23:32:15 you don't need to mine stalkacoins, they will find you. 23:33:17 wikicoin _seems_ like a good idea, until you realize anyone can edit your balance. 23:34:07 oftcoin is surprisingly rare. 23:34:37 snaccoin is interconvertible with chocolate. 23:35:49 ximalcoin really ximizes the usefulness of cryptocoin. 2014-02-13: 00:03:11 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:03:38 tipsoncoin exists for the sole purpose of backing that bot they have on reddit that tips people 00:05:28 i thought reddit had such bots for several coins. 00:08:53 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 00:09:38 `coins 00:09:40 telectcoin faerecoin revatiocoin cottocoin scabillwcoin braicoin mdpncoin concoin mazuringbraycoin jamachcoin univalcoin procoin udacoin chromeastavcoin imelbercoin huntcoin sublecoin cractcoin spacoin numpcoin 00:11:37 `run words --finnish 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 00:11:39 viivisintyväitettäcoin eroksiltanicoin torittämäämissäcoin lapistavanicoin lansacoin muodattammecoin merkittavisicoin elä-konejacoin yksityitäköcoin kuksesittaanistänsäcoin hierastansacoin puneittävällisicoin suoduktuurtaammecoin salailemälläcoin sumeerapiannetteliaisemmicoin kuuntiavaapuncoin kiriipimäksesimmaksencoin komaavienneco 00:12:55 faerecoin turn into flowers while you're not watching. 00:13:39 `run words --finnish --swedish 20 00:13:40 tres fistenän boliittas bilda kityret makselkrökig sataltamerkan foriljd ahkeassa signatsområngar sänittavademporter vastunernaaviljonklips turematko köyheterinteill akusarjallemisk aliserades muodosel fattningarskymit jouristelitektaan havillkaduettensa 00:14:24 en makselkrökig lista 00:15:07 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 00:15:08 `run words --swedish --norwegian 10 00:15:09 isontorganda vangern ingsform bil innesångighet sochic trans pleif pandlådring volumener 00:15:21 -!- conehead has joined. 00:15:37 `run words --norwegian 10 00:15:38 regenesteverste apetsstyrkede dukturkinnhets formasingsveiutgav gysnittak toffshowets fisér systandslag reglengen imønstets 00:16:26 FireFly : you're south of me ? 00:16:30 formasingsveiutgav is the new form you have to fill out for your car 00:17:28 it's due to EU directive 56012345 00:17:29 ski: that depends on your location.. 00:17:31 * ski thinks "foriljd" sounds nice 00:17:40 mine is slightly south of Stockholm 00:17:41 "elä-konejacoin" -- "live-machineandkoin". 00:17:51 foriljd my $foo (@bar) { } 00:18:36 oh. I see 00:19:34 ski: pardon the highlight 00:19:43 I suppose that happens somewhat frequently with a nick like that? 00:19:53 np 00:20:02 now and then 00:21:25 If one has a common words as a nick nobody needs to apologize for using that word. 00:21:41 Everyone can feel free to talk about ions and i have no right to have a problem with that. :-P 00:24:09 http://www.fark.com/comments/8140451/The-New-Zealand-Government-cannot-confirm-that-their-Prime-Minister-isnt-a-shapeshifting-reptilian-alien-ushering-humanity-towards-enslavement-Link-goes-to-official-document 00:25:33 -!- boily has joined. 00:25:53 good not-quite morning! 00:26:05 @massages-loud 00:26:05 fizzie asked 1d 10h 18m 59s ago: Why does metasepia leave when you do? 00:26:24 @massages 00:26:25 You don't have any messages 00:26:28 Why -loud? 00:26:30 fizzie: it was running from my machine. a machine I ran DBAN on. 00:26:37 Isn't the default loud in public channel? 00:26:42 Sgeo: I don't know why. it seems traditional. 00:26:52 fizzie: but rest assured! I made backups. 00:26:59 sgeo: nice 00:27:05 ~metar ESSA 00:27:16 oh 00:27:17 FireFly: uhm. let me start it... 00:27:29 (it should run from here, probably.) 00:30:18 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:30:23 ~metar ESSA 00:30:23 ESSA 130020Z 16006KT 6000 BR FEW004 M01/M01 Q1001 R01L/29//68 R08/29//64 R01R/29//59 TEMPO 4000 BKN004 00:30:33 IT'S ALIIIIIVE! ♪ 00:30:39 ~metar CYUL 00:30:40 CYUL 130000Z 10007KT 15SM SCT240 M11/M19 A3031 RMK CI4 SLP269 00:31:07 quintopia: quinthellopia. 00:31:50 What's new? 00:32:21 new job! 00:32:26 Yaaaaaay 00:33:02 (meanwhile, codu.org is throwing me 500 Server Errors. were there any new quotes and/or wisdoms during my absence?) 00:33:49 Taneb: it's a nice place :D 00:33:56 boily, where at? 00:34:30 Taneb: http://www.dental-wings.com/ 00:35:00 :O 00:35:42 @tell fizzie *poke poke poke* 00:35:43 Consider it noted. 00:36:36 Taneb: there's a nice coffee machine that makes espressi, we play mttg during lunch... 00:36:54 (there's a lack of Vietnamese restaurants around the place, but I'm coping.) 00:37:21 `? boily 00:37:22 boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. 00:40:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:40:42 boily: we are still waiting for Gregor to fix the repository browser. 00:41:05 hellœrjan. 00:41:24 until then, we must rely on memory, which is lousy. although i did add a kmc quote today. 00:41:38 `run quote kmc | tail 00:41:39 1114) what did fungot say? kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. \ 1115) BBC: Exercise 'can be as good as pills' oh, they mean for your health \ 1125) Sgeo: oh yeah those animated characters were built into the operating system and there was an API for them \ 1129) kmc, I was trying to go to 00:41:43 `run quote kmc | tail -n 1 00:41:44 1169) i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?" 00:42:05 good quote. let's try adding it... 00:42:13 (and having make fail...) 00:43:01 because yes, there is a Makefile to compile that PDF. that's y'all your fault. 00:45:17 * oerjan cackles maniäckally 00:45:51 * boily dusts his mapole, does a few practice swings... 00:45:52 `run allquotes | tail | tac 00:45:53 1169) i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?" \ 1168) kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around \ 1167) `quote 1146 1146) OKAY \ 1166) boily: i'm robert fnord. here take a piece of freenode furniture \ 1165) 15:21 .. 15:41 I've got to st 00:46:19 oh. so, probably from 1166 up until the most recent. 00:46:48 whether there have been any inner edits i don't recall. 00:46:49 meanwhile, I'm updating my \LaTeX{} install. “pdflatex: error while loading shared libraries: libpoppler.so.27: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory” 00:47:01 oerjan: too complex for me at this time of day. 00:47:43 hm... 00:49:52 ♫ put a poppler in your mouth when you eat at fishy joe's / what they're made from is a mystery, where they come from no-one knows ♫ 00:51:50 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:55:23 IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHL FUNGOTTING STUPID *INCOHERENT FRENCH MUMBLING*! 00:58:05 mômble mômble 01:00:09 maudite installation mal foutue de veut pas upgrader non mais ça se peut tu faire des affaires tout croche de même. 01:02:58 (strangely, google translate is pretty accurate on that one.) 01:03:13 aux quailles 01:04:24 aïl âme se t'il dont ne l'eau dingue. 01:14:26 boily! 01:14:32 you aren't usually online at this hour... 01:15:09 congratulations on those dufour-lapointe sisters and all. also, everyone else. must be quite exciting up there. 01:17:11 I think I'll be onlining with a different schedule from now on. 01:17:43 go us! we are teh bestest! 01:19:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:21:11 -!- w00tles has quit (Quit: quit). 01:24:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:24:32 -!- w00tles has joined. 01:24:46 -!- w00tles has quit (Client Quit). 01:26:46 boily: why does it seem like all the best canadian olympians are quebecois? 01:27:07 boily: oh i forgot: happy darwin day! 01:28:22 Does Quebec have a winter with unique properties that would aid them in the winter Olympics? 01:28:47 boily: and the whole schedule change thing: you may not talk to me much before 9:30pm 01:29:48 quintopia: I think pikhq has a point there. 01:29:59 but I go to bed at 21h30! 01:30:33 boily: on weekdays, i work from 15:00 to 21:00 01:30:41 boily: is this GOODBYE FOREVER 01:31:11 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 01:31:56 I shall inject myself with sweet #esoteric fluid on the weekends too. 01:49:57 sounds gross 01:49:57 perhaps you should do it at work 01:50:45 I don't have an #esöteric addiction. I can quit any time I want! 01:51:10 do you like outdoors boily 01:54:37 outdoors are nice. 01:54:47 okay wanna go hiking 01:55:14 it's been a while. 01:55:38 BUT WHERE THE HELL DO I FIND SUMMER INTERNSHIPS 01:56:08 just aska professor or talk at a bulletin board 01:56:10 Also I never did prove lens turing complete 01:56:12 Taneb: first you have to find a summer. 01:56:19 boily, I've got a summer planned 01:56:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:57:18 I guess I could head over to the CS building a bit earlier than I have to and scour for bulletin boards 01:57:53 LUGECOIN: a coin that gets built up for half a year, then takes just under a minute to flat-bottom again 01:57:57 I wouldn't know which professor to ask, my supervisor is in the maths department (I'm on a joint course) 01:58:33 quintopia: is that a bad pun on “sled”? (en:sled → fr:luge) 01:58:55 -!- augur has joined. 01:59:43 a luge is also a kind of sled in english 01:59:48 Taneb: we have id, (.) and const, i think if we could find fix and the s combinator, that's enough... 02:00:03 Hmm 02:00:23 (fix only needed because the usual y combinator in ski won't type in haskell) 02:00:26 @type perform (acts.acts) 02:00:27 Monad m => m (m b) -> m b 02:00:34 ooh 02:00:38 There's the W combinator 02:00:47 i was looking for that 02:00:56 kmc: oh. 02:01:01 I used that in my fibonacci program 02:01:30 except i didn't remember how the action stuff worked. 02:01:32 time for me to go inhale a chapter... 02:01:39 so i tried to do something with tuples. 02:01:42 `coins 02:01:43 rincoin hargcoin repuswamcoin chlorcoin tenevcoin noracoin checoin xbloucoin adhoocoin hidatedcoin .coin spectioncoin choolfschorumble-2dcoin conticoin chocoin xbfcoin plorcoin margegatediumbrainiolangcoin sedinalcoin loncoin 02:01:49 kmc: wut? 02:02:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: The banana is a nocturnal fruit.). 02:02:10 Taneb: well pretty sure W (or join) _should_ allow you to build S 02:02:14 with the rest 02:02:18 `coins 02:02:20 foocoin divilladcoin fortunacoin hoccucoin affe7s8coin itilchicoin recurncoin objecoin playcoin crticoin bytendstufcoin malcoin restoclamcoin inccoin sorcoin underlcoin muxcrethratcoin bnecoin bincoin stachiahcoin 02:02:27 BCKW is turing complete 02:02:30 @type flipped 02:02:31 (Functor f, Profunctor p) => p (b -> a -> c) (f (b' -> a' -> c')) -> p (a -> b -> c) (f (a' -> b' -> c')) 02:02:34 @type view flipped 02:02:35 MonadReader (a -> b -> c) m => m (b -> a -> c) 02:02:50 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:02:58 :t aside 02:02:58 (Applicative f, Choice p) => APrism s t a b -> p (e, a) (f (e, b)) -> p (e, s) (f (e, t)) 02:03:10 hm what's the dual of that 02:03:14 @type (.) ((.) ((.) join) flip) ((.) (.)) 02:03:15 (a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 02:03:39 oh right 02:03:44 Not too hard to lensify that, there's S for you 02:04:00 good, then you just need fix, i think 02:04:15 fix is the tricky one :( 02:04:35 May be able to fake it with iterated? 02:05:32 @type iterated 02:05:33 (Applicative f, Contravariant f) => (a -> a) -> (a -> f a) -> a -> f a 02:05:50 > 1 ^.. iterated (+1) 02:05:52 [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,... 02:06:02 That's the only way I know to get any recursion 02:06:05 not really 02:06:23 although maybe in the way curry or church managed to fake things without k... 02:07:36 > lastOf (iterated (const 7)) 1 02:07:45 :( 02:07:49 > firstOf (iterated (const 7)) 1 02:09:12 iterated will only give you terminating stuff, i think 02:09:31 like primitive recursion but with higher-order functions, like coq has 02:09:36 (iirc) 02:10:02 -!- tromp__ has joined. 02:10:59 @type fix (1:) 02:11:20 lambdabot seems to have given up on me 02:11:30 -!- elliott_ has joined. 02:12:18 @ping 02:14:26 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:18:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:18:07 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:18:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:18:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:18:28 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:18:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:18:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:19:03 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:19:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:19:56 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:20:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:20:00 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:20:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:20:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:20:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:21:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:21:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:21:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:22:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:22:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:22:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:29 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:23:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:24:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:24:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:24:30 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:24:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:24:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:24:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:25:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:25:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:25:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:25:50 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:25:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:25:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:26:11 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:26:12 -!- glogbot has joined. 02:26:13 -!- ski has joined. 02:26:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:26:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 02:26:21 -!- EgoBot has joined. 02:32:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:32:56 It's broke! 02:33:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Client Quit). 02:36:21 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? 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has set channel mode: +bbbb *!~loveirc-b@c-24-0-107-80.hsd1.nj.comcast.net *!*@*.dynamic.jazztel.es *!~stuntaneo@122.150.166.161 *!*bossbear@*.dllstx.fios.verizon.net. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb Yogi_Bear*!*@* $a:perdent nan[0]*!*@* *!*null@*.violates.us. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb `0x00*!*@* $a:`0x00 *!*null@unaffiliated/0x00/x-2550036 *!x@0x00.me. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb MBEFDC!*@* *!*@ec2-107-22-99-160.compute-1.amazonaws.com *!*7c96346a@*.124.150.52.106 Regis*!*@*. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb asdfasd_!*@* asdfasd!*@* GOMADWarrior*!*@* *!*bade2fc0@*.186.222.47.192. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +b *!*@189.34.44.144. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb *!*yevunye@*.csclub.uwaterloo.ca barts*!*@* $a:cheater *!*@g230223105.adsl.alicedsl.de. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb cheater*!*@*.adsl.alicedsl.de *!*@212.150.184.* ThePoster*!*@* *!~COS@*. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +bbbb *!*@62.233.41.* *!*@5ED28E0D.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl *!*@117.206.25.86 hagb4rd!*@*. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set channel mode: +q clog!~nef@bespin.org. 03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set topic: fungots fall on fungot falls | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 03:29:47 It was only designed for the sake of having a very small implementation. 03:30:15 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 03:30:15 -!- tswett has joined. 03:30:29 But otherwise, well, it's effectively just a slightly funny subset of most languages in common use. 03:31:17 Sure isn't an INTERCAL. 03:44:22 beep boop 03:46:36 somebody has slid a "yBITCOIN: Introducing The Future Of Money" magazine-advert-brochure-something under my bedroom door 03:46:45 `coins 03:46:47 greecoin dujourcoin beneticoin aaviacoin patocoin golcoin beauxcoin acronycoin gasoilcoin golfuckcoin justycoin estre-calcoin scecoin prectcoin pbleasircoin britscoin smurfarmacoin llllcoin karlicoin wakcoin 03:47:24 those are some p. good coins 03:47:38 smurfarmacoin, for those who farm smurfs 03:57:32 `cat bin/coins 03:57:32 words --eng-1M --esolangs ${1-20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 04:00:56 `cat bit/coins 04:00:57 cat: bit/coins: No such file or directory 04:04:05 oerjan: i think i'm on the verge of finding a pattern that copies itself x times despite having m<=2 for every command? but not tonight... 04:05:22 -!- Koen__ has joined. 04:05:29 quintopia: well you need more than one cycle for it. 04:05:36 -!- Koen__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:05:36 oerjan: or perhaps i've already done it 04:05:40 (large cycle) 04:07:54 oerjan: it occurs to me it's impossible. if a command can copy itself twice, then there will be two of them. so after, say, four cycles (two two-cycle passes) there must be four of them. better to have a pattern that duplicates a self-preserving pattern 04:08:06 but i think i have that in the latest template as well 04:11:28 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:12:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 04:12:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:24:08 oerjan: okay i have done :P 04:24:38 oerjan: a program that counts up from 0 in unary using only m<=2 (except to print) 04:24:56 in fact it uses only m=2 04:26:42 heh 04:27:30 sceql manages to be TC despite a queue that never shrinks. maybe we don't even need m=0! :P 04:27:44 oh dear 04:30:38 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:30:51 -!- TodPunk has joined. 04:40:18 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:43:02 How common do IRC clients do syntax highlighting? Due to several features it lack to just connect using a raw connection with telnet, including auto-pong, auto-response, masking the password, and syntax highlighting, that is why I made up the one that add such feature, but, how common is it anyways? 04:43:12 I saw other one which doesn't seem to do. 04:43:50 Unless you don't have a color monitor, or perhaps don't have a color printing, why do you want a IRC client with no syntax hightlightngitng. 04:44:50 zzo38: I have used handful clients and none of them had that feature. 04:45:48 `coins 04:45:49 obducappedcoin jewaltkcoin blaimcoin bralcoin goydecoin chacoin wethcoin selemcoin tameicoin oischecoin curbazandcoin braincoin veliumcoin betacoin nummericoin halecoin parcoin sertcoin llacoin rentrojeccoin 04:45:58 I didn't expect it to, but, it is one of the things that is useful to me. I don't know which, if any, features are being shared by other IRC clients. 04:45:58 braincoin 04:47:06 syntax highlighting for what? source code? or the IRC protocol itself? 04:47:17 kmc: For the IRC protocol. 04:47:37 most clients don't show the raw IRC protocol messages at all 04:48:40 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:48:42 irssi has color highlighting, with theme files 04:49:12 O, so it does have such thing, then. 04:49:38 -!- augur has joined. 04:50:31 i use a mostly black-on-white (but with some things light red or blue) theme called "clean". 04:51:03 What things is red and blue? 04:51:20 oh and the window borders are brighter colors 04:52:03 Shouldn't it just use the operating system's window borders though? 04:52:15 the time of messages is in blue, and in augur's join/quit messages there are some red symbols and his nick is blue. 04:52:33 not the borders for the whole window, but the borders for irssi subwindows 04:52:38 O, OK 04:53:18 anyway i chose this theme because _most_ text is black on white so i don't feel distracted by too much colors. 04:53:21 That (second part) makes sense. But, do you mean augur's messages, is only his nick blue, not the other one? 04:53:22 :x 04:53:36 Are the other ones in black? 04:54:10 it's not specific to augur, it's just that his were the only quit/join messages in this window right now 04:54:46 O, so, it color depending on what kind of message it is? 04:54:50 oerjan: actually, another sensible use of colors in IRC is a hash-based nick coloring. 04:54:50 lines that mention my nick sometimes get some brighter red color. 04:55:06 though it is less applicable for terminals. 04:55:14 lifthrasiir: yeah i think my original theme had that, which drove me crazy :P 04:55:26 in irssi? :p 04:55:42 I have used hash-based coloring for making pie charts, but doesn't seem so useful for IRC. 04:55:54 possibly it was something else. dark background perhaps. 04:56:07 zzo38: it is very useful to discern two nicks with shared prefixes. 04:56:07 zzo38: obviously some people like it. 04:56:20 there is no point to use that otherwise though. 04:56:25 Well, yes if you like it then that's good if implementations exist. 04:58:46 for example in the line above where lifthrasiir says "oerjan:", his nick is bright red. 04:59:25 my own messages have a red ">" which is black for others. things like that. 05:00:06 i think the theme files allow you to configure much more than the colors, though. 05:00:09 I have a black on green ">" for my own messages; other message don't have ">" 05:00:30 Like do you mean, to configure the size of the window and so on? 05:00:35 And macros and filters? 05:00:42 (although i didn't edit it myself, afair) 05:01:42 Will it mask the password? I seem to remember, some people have said, the program they are using doesn't mask the password. 05:01:59 zzo38: i think macros (well, aliases) and filters go in the config file, the theme file is for style issues. 05:02:09 some clients do mask the password when it is sent to known nicks, e.g. NickServ. 05:02:31 but it is mostly limited since IRC clients generally don't know what is a password and what's not. 05:02:39 well i have put the password in the config file so i don't need to type it. 05:02:55 My client masks the password if the command starts with "PASS " or "/PASS " (it doesn't have a /PASS command, but it can be defined using macros if you need it) 05:03:30 I hate snow 05:03:37 oerjan: the same principle applies, since you'll see the message automatically sent to NickServ anyway. 05:03:58 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:04:37 (If you type "NickServ" it won't mask the password though) 05:05:17 lifthrasiir: i don't see that message anywhere. i've set the freenode network configuration to use a server password. 05:05:57 oerjan: did freenode support that? I never knew. 05:07:29 sure 05:07:46 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:08:14 http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup ha, that's really a good tip. I'll adapt that on the next reconnect. 05:08:22 -!- augur has joined. 05:08:44 zzo38: btw my window size is set by putty, but irssi has layout configuration for the subwindows (i just have two normally) 05:09:30 As it turn out it is the same to me I have window size set by PuTTY, but there are no subwindows. 05:12:13 hm i'm not sure if i've included my account name in the password, as that page recommends 05:13:11 although it's almost never an issue anyway 05:14:34 also i now have tmux between putty and irssi as well, but all the tmux windows are full size 05:16:25 coincidentally, both tmux and irssi have green status bars 05:19:25 Sgeo: what about it 05:20:03 it keeps happening, and more or less trapping me inside 05:20:04 -!- oklopol_ has joined. 05:20:52 Sgeo: on the bright side, it prevents the ground from catching fire hth 05:21:20 why do you become trapped 05:21:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:21:45 kmc: I guess in theory I can walk around in 6"+ inches of snow, but it's not that easy 05:22:25 do they not shovel sidewalks where you are? 05:23:07 I enter the password manually each time (using the PASS command) but have a macro for the NICK and USER commands. 05:24:01 kmc: they do eventually. Some of them 05:24:47 :/ 05:25:10 When reading about SQLite I see that it says Firefox uses it. I thought Firefox uses JavaScripts, not SQL, isn't it? If you use Firefox maybe you know, how to access SQL with it? 05:26:47 Pretty sure it uses SQL internally, but doubt it would give external websites an interface to use SQL, unless HTML5 specifies that such an interface should exist (I'm not sure) 05:26:59 Extensions can probably access Firefox's databases 05:27:31 in ~/.mozilla/firefox/*.default I have sqlite databases for: addons chromeappsstore content-prefs cookies downloads extensions formhistory permissions places search signons urlclassifier3 webappsstore 05:28:07 there is also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_SQL_Database yes 05:28:10 Sgeo: I don't mean on websites! I mean for extensions 05:28:39 Extensions are written in JavaScripts and XUL (although they can be written using HTML too), not SQL. 05:29:01 zzo38: things that use SQL are almost never written purely in SQL 05:29:23 They create SQL using another language, generally, and then run it 05:29:34 i wonder how oerjan gets by without reverse video 05:30:38 6"+ inches eh 05:30:48 That isn't how I do it usually; parameters like ?1 and so on may be generated using another language if necessary but usually I write other things directly in SQL 05:31:15 Some functions and virtual table modules may also be written in C, though, too 05:32:19 but wouldn't you like to run JavaScript inside your SQL engine https://code.google.com/p/plv8js/wiki/PLV8 05:33:08 let/ec seems nicer than the usual imperative return, but some people who hate early return for causing confusion would probably also hate abusing let/ec too 05:33:27 what's let/ec 05:33:35 I don't know why I would need to run JavaScript inside of SQL engine. 05:35:13 for the same reason you'd want to run WEB inside TeX 05:35:32 kmc: syntax sugar for call/ec, which is short for call-with-escape-continuation 05:35:42 and what's escape continuation mean 05:36:04 Which is similar to call-with-current-continuation except the continuation can only be used within the dynamic extent of the given function 05:36:10 ah 05:36:12 -!- Frooxius has joined. 05:36:20 which means more efficient implementation? 05:36:41 Yes, and possibly clearer to read too (knowing that it can only be used in a certain way) 05:36:57 quintopia: You run WEB *inside* of TeX? You can certainly make similar systems that run completely inside of TeX, but WEB uses external programs too. 05:37:02 http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/cont.html?q=let%2Fec#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._call-with-escape-continuation%29%29 05:37:02 what happens if you try to save/return it? 05:37:19 Using it would give an error 05:37:50 zzo38: I run running runs inside of insides inside. 05:38:20 http://pasterack.org/pastes/6784 05:39:11 Saving and then using it all while within the dynamic extent of the call-with-escape-continuation should be fine though 05:44:43 does scheme have any Undefined Behavior? 05:44:48 in the C sense 05:45:13 I think there's behavior that's ambiguously described in the spec 05:45:25 Oleg talks about it somewhere, iirc, but beyond that I don't really know 05:45:32 But that's not UB 05:45:37 right 05:45:46 isn't function argument eval order undefined, for one? 05:45:57 or "unspecified" in C terms 05:46:28 i,i behavior left as an exercise for the reader 05:46:38 kmc: I keep forgetting about that 05:46:42 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-4.html#%_sec_1.3.2 05:47:02 i opened a bug for that os x documentation and cited the C11 spec twice (thanks to fizzie) 05:47:07 am i a real language lawyer now 05:47:10 "What’s really sad is that some so-called high-level languages like Scheme intentionally include undefined behavior, too. This may make Scheme look like a real systems language after all." 05:47:12 i know some for-effect procedures return unspecified values cos the kernel guy wouldn't shut up about it. i think there's some other stuff, like, something to do with define maybe? 05:47:28 why does everyone dislike undefined behavior, it makes perfect sense to me... 05:47:55 "I have been preaching the ‘unsafe and undefined gospel’ for a long time in PL courses. Indeed, I have been preaching it for such a long time that former students still have T shirts with my quote “Scheme is just as bad as FORTRAN” for the same issue. Indeed, some HotSpot compiler authors may still own this T shirt." 05:48:58 sassy 05:49:01 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_sec_6.1 some UB in the behavior of eqv? on weird crap 05:49:03 kmc: what happens if you language-lawyer and then ken thompson says "we never meant for it to work that way, C89 shouldn't have allowed it" 05:49:14 could look more but whooooo caaaaares 05:49:22 i don't know what happens (did that happen) 05:49:26 yes 05:49:53 do you count as a language lawyer or do you lose your language lawyer license or what 05:50:04 is that like, language common law 05:51:25 having a language explicitly do the common law precedent thing would be kinda interesting 05:51:30 but would require easier "lawsuits" 05:51:49 isn't that how some specs are written 05:52:01 or e.g. alternative ruby implementations 05:52:23 yeah, but like, explicitly. and presumably faster. 05:52:31 "the legal system: fast" 05:52:36 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:52:40 by the way, you can get non-DRM http://www.brokenagegame.com/ now 05:54:06 did it have DRM before? 05:54:15 or do you just mean it's released instead of the kickstarter alpha thing 05:54:23 they were just selling it on steam before 05:54:44 i probably can't in good faith recommend to people to buy things on steam 05:56:06 "Isn't that just the wrong way?" "Yes, but faster!" 06:02:19 * Bike owns like a dozen things on steam, oops 06:05:11 is steam evil? 06:06:05 ~metar EFHK 06:06:10 Oh, I'm too late. 06:06:36 no metasepia and no fungot 06:06:49 we're quite short on bots now 06:07:07 ) hi there 06:07:07 kmc: hi there 06:07:11 :O 06:07:35 ) >'Hi kmc' 06:07:35 Sgeo: Hi kmc 06:07:41 ) <'Hi kmc' 06:07:41 Sgeo: +------+ 06:07:41 Sgeo: |Hi kmc| 06:07:41 Sgeo: +------+ 06:07:47 a nice box 06:07:53 is that what they call a "boxed value" 06:08:02 yes 06:08:03 is this the game whose original kickstarter thing was this guy telling you how he wants to bathe in your money 06:08:05 or something 06:10:38 or maybe they already had gotten some money from the kickstarter and he was like mm moneys. or something. maybe. i should pay more attention to things maybe. 06:11:01 i just found alex churchill's stackoverflow posting about the second version of his MtGTM... 06:45:59 why does wikipedia say Clean is influenced by Haskell, but created 3 years earlier? 06:46:56 ) <<<<<'' 06:46:57 lifthrasiir: +--------+ 06:46:57 lifthrasiir: |+------+| 06:46:57 lifthrasiir: ||+----+|| 06:46:57 lifthrasiir: |||+--+||| 06:46:57 lifthrasiir: ||||++|||| 06:46:58 lifthrasiir: ... 06:47:11 the magical box raid. 06:50:41 quintopia: maybe the devteams knew one another. or the haskell in question is prestandard. 06:56:32 time travel 07:13:09 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:15:02 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:23:03 -!- FreeFull_ has quit. 07:36:32 Oh. 07:37:03 -!- fungot has joined. 07:37:08 There's at least some fungots. 07:37:08 fizzie: it's... kind of when you say python primitives weren't objects? 07:37:10 welcome back fungot 07:37:10 kmc: i thought so too. for simple data like lists symbols vectors numbers such? do you need?' or something, i guess some fnord is involved. 07:37:16 ^style 07:37:16 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 07:37:25 ^style jargon 07:37:25 Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive) 07:37:29 (It doesn't persist the style.) 07:37:31 more fungot pls 07:37:31 kmc: hey quux, we look in our routing tables as see that unix-weenish is rife with possibilities for misinterpretation. what's your problem. 07:38:28 ^bool 07:38:29 No. 08:13:32 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:15:11 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:15:40 -!- EgoBot has joined. 08:15:50 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:16:01 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:16:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:16:27 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:16:32 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 08:16:33 -!- coppro has joined. 08:17:18 -!- tromp has joined. 08:19:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:26:00 -!- copumpkin has joined. 08:29:32 I only now come to realize that with a named let, the named function doesn't have to be called in tail-call position 08:29:33 derp 08:33:35 -!- tertu has joined. 08:34:49 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:40:54 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:45:17 -!- glogbackup has joined. 08:45:39 -!- password2 has joined. 09:01:41 Sgeo: you mean in scheme? 09:02:47 does anything else have named let? 09:03:18 Bike: dunno, I think some other schemes probably have it 09:03:23 um 09:03:26 I mean some other lisps 09:03:44 and "named let" isn't too specific as a name, maybe some other language calls something else that 09:04:11 none do that i'm aware of, unless you count half-made pseudoschemes ofc 09:10:30 ah, r6rs actually calls it "named let". I didn't know that name. 09:11:10 and so does r5rs 09:11:22 I see 09:12:05 well like 'let' isn't usually a noun anyway 09:21:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:31:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:33:34 http://www.textfiles.com/uploads/apple2gscracks.txt sweet 09:37:48 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:38:28 -!- password2 has joined. 11:27:00 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:29:01 Is there a way to translate algorithmically from B,C,K,W to Hindley-Milner B,C,K,W with fix? 11:30:21 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 11:33:46 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:56:17 -!- monotone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:58:24 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:58:32 Cracks were so much simpler in the old days. (Also, there was a Neuromancer video game?) 12:02:17 An Interplay adventure game, right? 12:02:23 -!- monotone has joined. 12:03:11 http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/neuromancer/screenshots/gameShotId,3603/ <- look, cyberspace. 12:05:58 Those are... rather unimaginative names. Compared to, say, shikata_ga_nai. 12:08:03 -!- password2 has joined. 12:09:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:37:49 -!- yorick has joined. 12:44:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:48:30 -!- utkarsh has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:50:36 -!- utkarsh has joined. 13:09:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:27:25 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:29:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:42:57 OK, the weather in the UK is just trolling now 13:43:03 we just had a hailstorm that lasted about 30 seconds 14:09:57 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:35:08 -!- password2_ has joined. 14:38:38 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:45:25 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:45:57 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:04:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 15:12:46 -!- tertu has joined. 15:34:28 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 15:37:36 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Client Quit). 15:40:11 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 15:45:49 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:49:25 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:32:27 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:32:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:37:25 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:46:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:58:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:16:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:32:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:53:06 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:55:32 @tell Vorpal Raspberry Pi in full frame rather than a circle, courtesy of a non-broken adapter ring and a more suitable pair of lenses: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140213-pi.jpg 17:55:32 Consider it noted. 17:55:39 @tell Vorpal It's still a completely impractical setup, since even with smallest aperture (f/32) the depth of field is that small, and it's not possible to get lower magnification. 17:55:39 Consider it noted. 17:55:43 @tell Vorpal A couple of shots of the ridiculous-looking setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140213-shot1.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140213-shot2.jpg 17:55:43 Consider it noted. 17:55:47 @tell Vorpal (Though the crank-to-raise-or-lower neck of the actual tripod did make focusing easier.) 17:55:47 Consider it noted. 18:02:58 -!- atriq has joined. 18:07:01 What does the MONITOR command mean on this IRC? 18:08:46 https://github.com/atheme/charybdis/blob/master/doc/monitor.txt zzo38 18:08:49 fizzie: nice 18:09:04 a pair of lenses? 18:09:05 zzo38: [524] ais523 monitor Help not found 18:09:12 apparently it doesn't know 18:09:33 kmc: Yes, like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RevLensMac.png 18:09:40 kmc: (It's very silly.) 18:09:56 fizzie: lol 18:10:07 Today I got marks back on a programming formative exam I did last term 18:10:08 49/50 18:10:19 * kmc has AP Physics flashbacks 18:10:39 On the other hand, the adapter ring (#2 in the Wikipedia picture) cost approximately $3 on eBay, so at least it wasn't expensive to do either. 18:10:41 Lost one mark because I missed a shortcut I could take because the input list was assumed to be sorted 18:11:00 do you put some kind of transparent cover over the "body" end of the reversed lens to keep dust out? 18:13:01 kmc: That could be nice, but I don't think they really do anything like that; would need to DIY it. Though I'm not sure I'll be doing this habitually enough for that to really matter. 18:15:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:15:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Changing host). 18:15:12 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:16:35 Hey, can anyone golf the Python code "def f(n):return n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)" any further? 18:17:14 Is that fibbonacci? 18:17:17 Aye 18:17:49 Could golf it by translating it into a different language =P 18:18:40 kmc: The pair of lenses in this case was the EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 zoom (in the "forward" position) and the EF 50mm f/1.8 prime (reversed), but I had to zoom the former all the way to something like 225mm in order to keep the corners from going black, so the minimum magnification was approximately 4.5, which is really rather overkill. 18:18:52 FreeFull, that's pretty easy 18:19:10 atriq: f=lambda n:n if n<2 ... 18:19:53 shachaf: Good idea 18:20:18 f=lambda n: 18:20:21 def f(n): 18:20:25 return 18:20:30 Oooh 18:20:59 !python f=lambdan:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(12) 18:21:02 File "", line 1 \ f=lambdan:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(12) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax 18:21:19 !python f=lambda n:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(10) 18:21:20 File "", line 1 \ f=lambda n:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(10) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character 18:21:39 !python (lambda n:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2))(10) 18:21:40 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "", line 1, in \ File "", line 1, in \ NameError: global name 'f' is not defined 18:21:44 :( 18:21:46 Anyway 18:21:48 No, you have to name it. 18:22:07 In a hypothetical stack language, you could do f#[d2 Oh, forgot a + 18:22:50 # probably should come first 18:23:09 I think dc would be better if having a "arithmetic if" command instead of the way it does conditions now; it just result only the corresponding entry on the stack but then you would still need "x" afterward to execute it. 18:23:51 (I know, it isn't dc) 18:26:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:50:10 atriq: does n<2 and 1 or .. work in python? 18:51:55 !python f=lambda n:n<2 and 1 or f(n-2)+f(n-1); print(f(5)) 18:51:56 8 18:52:04 !python f=lambda n:n<2 and 1 or f(n-2)+f(n-1); print(f(10)) 18:52:05 89 18:53:11 !python f=lambda n:n<2and 1or f(n-2)+f(n-1); print(f(10)) 18:53:11 89 18:54:18 ew 18:55:21 what a strange way to write a conditional 18:55:31 > length "f=lambda n:n<2and 1or f(n-2)+f(n-1)" 18:55:32 35 18:55:35 it's p. standard in bash 18:55:41 bash is strange 18:56:13 also perl 18:56:29 in Perl you'd more likely use ?: 19:05:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:14:42 -!- atriq has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:15:04 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 19:17:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 19:19:10 :( where is a norwegian when you need one 19:19:52 norway 19:19:54 ais523: odds on resPairate being universal for m /exactly/ 2? 19:20:14 quintopia: I'd say I believe it is, but am not certain and have no construction 19:20:56 that would be incredible if it were 19:22:27 also lua 19:22:29 er 19:22:40 old conversation, but whatever 19:24:38 has anyone here been to Berlin or Praha? 19:28:22 i've been to Berlin 19:28:47 actually, i live in berlin 19:29:25 :O 19:29:38 "actually, i AM berlin!" 19:29:48 yeah 19:30:27 I've been to both, but not very recently. 19:30:42 Prague in 2012, I think. 19:31:00 i want to go to praha 19:31:52 myname: i might go there in april. wanna be a tourist for a day? or recommend some less common activities to do? 19:32:21 stuff your face with currywurst 19:34:10 FireFly: python nowadays has `if_true if conditional else if_false` expression 19:34:36 nortti: but atriq asked for a golfed version 19:35:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:35:29 hmm, yeah. the and+or thing uses 1 less char 19:35:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:35:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:36:22 I think it saves another char due to kmc's whitespace hackery 19:36:33 the and+or variant allows two spaces to be removed, but the if-else only one 19:52:23 kmc: oh that was going to happen regardless. that falls under "common tourist activities" 19:56:24 this is definitely tourist stuff but the Mauermueseum and the DDR Museum are both very interesting 20:08:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:22:36 In Prague, there was a whole lot of things related to beer. 20:22:51 Personally, I'm not much of a beer, but for people who are beer, there's a lot of that. 20:23:30 (Though I was there just for a conference, didn't really do much aside from that.) 20:24:32 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 20:24:33 -!- ter2 has joined. 20:24:48 I found it enjoyable to just walk around in the city of prague 20:26:36 -!- tertu3 has joined. 20:27:58 I did a more turisty thing there with my mother, somewhere around 2000, maybe a bit before, but I don't really remember details too well. 20:29:51 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:49:28 beer is good 22:05:03 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: brb). 22:06:57 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:15:36 -!- nisstyre has joined. 22:47:49 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:48:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:52:49 i wonder how oerjan gets by without reverse video <-- what? 22:53:17 whoa, whoa, whoa, oerjan doesn't have reverse video? 22:53:24 how do you even get by? 22:53:24 are you making a joke about the fact i prefer dark text on light background? 22:53:39 oh 22:53:51 -!- boily has joined. 22:54:36 * oerjan is going to take some time to get used to boily not leaving just before he enters 22:59:46 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:05:17 good schedulœrjan evening! 23:06:16 god kveilly 23:19:44 why does wikipedia say Clean is influenced by Haskell, but created 3 years earlier? <-- presumably later versions of clean have adopted features from haskell, i think type classes are one 23:20:11 (as in, i vaguely recall clean has type classes, which were definitely invented for haskell) 23:23:45 oerjan: what is a kveill? google thinks it's Icelandic for “cry”. 23:24:12 it's actually norwegian dialect for "evening" 23:24:37 oh. 23:36:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:37:23 -!- augur has joined. 23:41:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:47:33 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 23:48:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:56:45 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 2014-02-14: 00:02:00 :( where is a norwegian when you need one <-- clearly now that boily has changed habits, you have inherited his "never be here at the same time as oerjan" curse hth 00:03:28 I had a curse? 00:03:41 quintopia: I can be Norwegian for you *wink wink* 00:03:52 well metasepia was never here when wanted to do ~metar before 00:03:57 oh. 00:04:00 and incidentally, still isn't. 00:04:04 >_>'... 00:04:08 * boily whistles innocently 00:04:23 (not that i've got a particular ~metar need at the moment) 00:04:30 *+i 00:05:02 the needs of the metar outweighs the needs of information. 00:05:14 quintopia: don't listen to boily, he'll serve you fake lutefisk made out of poutine! 00:05:32 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:05:40 hm... a lutefisk poutine... I'll pitch that Capital Idea at the next joint I visit. 00:05:43 ~metar EFHK 00:05:45 EFHK 132350Z 16010KT 9999 FEW013 BKN018 01/M02 Q1005 BECMG BKN013 00:05:48 ~metar ENVA 00:05:49 ENVA 132350Z 16018KT CAVOK 05/M04 Q0983 RMK WIND 670FT 19023KT 00:06:04 ~metar KATL 00:06:05 cry havock 00:06:17 hm. 00:06:21 * boily lightly mapoles his bot 00:06:36 i keep thinking KATL should refer to some secret lair inside the volcano. 00:06:38 KATL 132352Z 29008KT 10SM CLR 04/M03 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP113 T00441033 10072 20039 51014 00:06:41 ah! 00:07:05 oerjan: eh? which volcano? 00:07:14 katla, naturally 00:07:36 ~duck katla 00:07:36 an active volcano in southern Iceland, with an elevation of 970 m, covered by the southeastern part of the M–rdalsjökull Glacier. 00:08:11 i strongly doubt the original had an ndash in that position 00:08:14 M–rdalsjökull 00:08:47 really, Icelandic is making me kveill. 00:09:04 also the name of the dragon in the brothers lionheart 00:10:04 `learn M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 00:10:06 I knew that. 00:10:30 `? M–rdalsjökull 00:10:30 M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 00:10:43 `run ls wisdom/'M–rdalsjökull' 00:10:44 ls: cannot access wisdom/M–rdalsjökull: No such file or directory 00:10:58 `run ls wisdom/'m–rdalsjökull' 00:10:59 wisdom/m–rdalsjökull 00:11:16 uhm. what is the alphabetic order of an “&”? 00:12:11 > [' '..'&'] 00:12:12 " !\"#$%&" 00:12:20 well it's a ligature for "et" of sorts, i think 00:13:07 I put it at the end of the “M” section. 00:16:31 -!- clog has joined. 00:16:35 there. merged and copied and pushed and everything else. 00:16:39 ais523: odds on resPairate being universal for m /exactly/ 2? <-- you are mean. i just about thought i could get it done for <= 2. 00:17:07 oerjan: hi. i need travel advice if you have any! 00:17:24 boily: i cannot guarantee there haven't been other wisdoms added 00:17:55 quintopia: don't travel, it's dangerous hth 00:18:12 oerjan: I'll scour and scry and search and sift through the logs for anything Wisdomian. 00:18:14 I will be in Flam,Getranger(sp?),Aalesund,Bergen,and Olden. If you know of anything that would be super-awesome to see in these places i'll thank you to tell me 00:18:34 quintopia: going overseas? adventuring in Deep Scandinavia? 00:18:50 boily: yessir 00:19:27 :D 00:19:57 `hg 00:19:58 Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff diff repository (or selected files) \ ex 00:20:31 oh hm it's hard to find the diff numbers without the repository browser. 00:21:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:21:12 I need to buy a non-crappy laptop before mid-April... 00:21:41 quintopia: i hear most foreigners think geiranger is super-awesome all by itself. you could go to the aquarium in bergen. 00:22:03 also bryggen, i suppose 00:22:23 i read something about bryggen. what's there? 00:22:25 * oerjan hasn't been to bergen since he was about 6. 00:22:58 my germanic-language-speaking brain sees "bergen" and just thinks "mountains" 00:23:49 quintopia: it's old architecture, one of the best preserved (perhaps the only? or maybe outside germany) hanseatic buildings 00:24:01 s/one/some/ 00:24:08 ah right the wharf? 00:24:11 yeah 00:24:21 yeah i think that's on the list of things to do already 00:24:42 i enjoyed Rostock, so I ranked it pretty high 00:25:00 yeah i guess it's pretty obligatory if you're on an organized tourist trip 00:25:27 it's not that organized. it's a cruise. we get like 8-12 hours to do whatever we want in each place 00:25:31 if you're in geiranger, i have a hunch you might go glacier climbing 00:25:49 glacier climbing...should i do that? 00:26:29 climb the glacier! show it who's boss! 00:26:42 quintopia: a guided tour, presumably. 00:26:56 i'll look into it 00:27:25 western norway has glaciers close to some of the fjords, anyway. 00:28:21 * oerjan went on such a trip once during a summer school university arrangement, but not at geiranger. 00:28:45 oerjan: oh, that's what the dragon's named after 00:28:54 * oerjan recalls he got a black toe from that trip, it took half a year or so to grow back out properly 00:29:03 toenail, that is 00:29:19 too bad it wasn't a black foot 00:29:27 the norwegian mr. deeds! 00:30:37 quintopia: gangrene is no laughing matter. also, i already regret looking it up on wikipedia. 00:30:44 * boily recalls he accidentally his toenail off one time. apparently Canadian toenails have the same growth rate as Norwegian ones. 00:31:10 i'm sure we've all done it at some point. mine grew back kinda crooked 00:33:47 I don't know which of my scars is the stupidest. it's either my knee with: a car being washed, a bush and a flowerbed; or my forehead with: a freezer, a furnace airduct and a sewing machine desk. 00:39:47 Terran Republic = Peacekeepers? 00:40:09 Certainly seem thematically similar 00:40:18 is this the kind of peace where it's peaceful because no one's alive 00:41:42 I think the peacekeepers/TR themselves would still be alive 00:42:02 I guess not quite as peaceful though 00:42:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:49:11 -!- augur has joined. 00:50:31 * boily is stuck with http://youtu.be/j-3Fgrn7Rls in his ears ♪ 00:56:59 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:13:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:14:44 boily: try Q-Tips hth 01:15:16 i hear putting q-tips in your ears is dangerous. 01:16:06 they can go through into your brain 01:16:09 tru fax 01:17:39 His product, which he named "Baby Gays", [...] 01:19:52 oerjan: «Mise en garde: Pour nettoyer les oreilles, passer délicatement le cure-oreille sur la surface externe, en évitant de pénétrer dans le canal auditif. Garder hors de la portée des jeunes enfants.» 01:20:13 Phantom_Hoover: what if my brains are made of qtips? 01:21:22 what if qtips are made of brains! 01:22:16 boily, then you have too many brains 01:22:28 the consequences are too dire to dwell upon 01:23:00 "... I purposefully spill mercury ..." 01:23:06 ah, the good ol' feeling of insanity that this chännel exudes. 01:23:46 I found a program containing a comment "Let's get fired because I wrote this stupid comment" 01:24:16 (It is the only comment in the program) 01:24:31 I wonder how many Linux-using anti-swearing people know about the swears in comments in the Linux source 01:24:59 Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AK8yg5s2ps&list=PL786EBDC8D2B4CD1D 01:25:05 quintopia: speaking of brains, you should try smalahove when Norwaying. 01:25:20 boily: Is it good enough, or not good enough? Is it good enough once you put two dots over the "a" in "channel"? 01:25:39 i'm sure smalahove is one of the tricks we pull on foreigners. 01:25:39 oerjan: same person, but he says it in a differnet video 01:25:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGv_YVQHu7U 01:26:03 Towards the end 01:26:14 Sgeo: he also says he is very careful with the cleaning up 01:26:15 zzo38: it satisfies me. the ä is idiosyntactic. 01:34:09 ^source 01:34:09 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 01:34:52 -!- clog has joined. 01:41:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:47:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NOCTURNAL NORWEGIAN CHICKEN). 01:47:35 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:14 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:52:39 I seem to recall an esolang unspecified other than a couple of examples 01:53:21 ESME, CLEARLY 01:53:59 A more interesting looking one 01:54:11 oh there was also ais523's that he'd forgot how it worked 01:54:46 Yes, I think that was what I was thinking of 01:55:26 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burn 01:56:04 Thank you 01:57:54 the talk page has a few more hints 01:58:02 as much as I can remember, at least 01:58:43 I think the specifications of my first ever esolang have been finally lost 01:58:51 Probably a good thing 01:59:17 It was a brainfuck second-derivative 01:59:29 brainfuck''? 01:59:42 "Ook!++" 01:59:53 that means it's a P fourth-derivative 02:00:14 oh wait, fifth 02:00:32 we need to start using P''' for BF 02:02:03 hmm, I just thought of a beautiful way to troll oerjan 02:02:12 create a language whose name starts with a letter that isn't present in the name 02:02:24 like, call it "zxcv" but define the name to start with "m" 02:03:29 Do you have a way to troll oerjan that doesn't involve trolling everyone in general 02:04:26 ais523: don't tempt me to move INTERCAL to between Commercial and Complode in the language list 02:04:53 oerjan: if you do, I won't object 02:05:17 I don't object as long as you are also keeping it filed under "INTERCAL" too 02:05:33 I'd actually forgotten that INTERCAL was an abbreviation until you mentioned that 02:05:48 s/INTERCAL/"INTERCAL"/ 02:06:12 Oh god, my live esolang creation is in SIX DAYS 02:07:32 on the sixth day, Taneb panicked. 02:07:55 On the seventh day, add REST 02:08:28 Taneb: do you have any ideas that you're going to use? or is the idea going to be worked out on the spot too? 02:08:33 also, is this spec or impl or both? 02:09:08 I have a few ideas but pretty vague, I'm gonna try to do some audience participation, too 02:09:15 Probably just a spec, impl if I have time 02:10:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:16:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1xu2kv/silk_road_2_hacked_all_bitcoins_stolen/ 02:16:36 I have no idea what's actualyl going on 02:17:19 Sgeo: I think Silk Road 2 got hacked and all the Bitcoins were stolen 02:17:51 alternatively, the people adminning Silk Road 2 are pretending so. 02:18:18 at least that was what everyone said the last time this kind of thing happened. 02:19:45 oerjan: or maybe that's what they WANT you to think! wait... 02:41:24 It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a HMAC 02:42:18 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:43:30 hehe 02:45:12 i guess you can still call it a social hack 02:46:36 wrapped in a joint 02:49:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:55:52 `? tanebventions 02:55:52 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, and this sentence. 02:57:03 I haven't had authentic weetoflakes in ages 02:57:22 Actually I haven't been awake in time for breakfast in ages 03:15:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:54:59 eating in your sleeping isn't usually recommended. 03:55:13 *-ing 03:55:16 also typing 03:58:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:07:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:08:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 04:08:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:18:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:34:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:54:29 -!- augur has joined. 04:58:59 `coins 04:59:01 inforkcoin bowickethaxcoin intccoin undericoin doublecoin lyapasscoin cocccoin escutampercoin lessasscoin oracoin tellcoin iagcoin erixcoin reliucoin itnumecoin suxecoin hayrcoin udgedimacoin golfecoin thessimcoin 05:00:11 good coins 05:04:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:07:35 nice crash on gox 05:07:46 not as good as the btc-e crash the other day 05:08:03 "lessasscoin" is hilarious 05:08:08 all the other cryptocoins are ass 05:08:10 but not this one 05:08:13 at least, not as much 05:13:37 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:13:52 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:14:20 damn I should have bought 05:14:23 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:16:57 i like "doublecoin", it does all the arithmetic using double precision floating point, wcpgw 05:17:08 (please tell me bitcoin doesn't do that) 05:17:15 it doesn't 05:17:19 it's all fixed point 05:17:25 good 05:17:40 that's why they're subdivisible to 10^-8 05:17:46 because that's the fixed point multiplier :P 05:17:52 yeah 05:18:00 the bitcoin ecosystem has a lot of clueless people in it now, but it seems like Satoshi and the other OG's knew what they were doing 05:18:11 except for the bug satoshi baked into bitcoin 05:18:12 at least in terms of cryptography & engineering if not economics ;P 05:18:24 hm? 05:18:29 I hear his original code was pretty shitty actually, engineering-wise 05:18:44 well you know bitcoin has a mini stack language in it, right? 05:18:52 yeah 05:19:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:19:18 one of the commands in that language accidentally pops one extra thing off teh stack 05:19:25 or something like that, haven't looked at it in a while 05:19:32 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:19:33 so any time you use it, you need to push some crap on 05:19:46 and that's pretty much unfixable without forking the whole shebang, so we're stuck with it forever 05:19:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:20:38 kind of offends the language geek in me 05:20:45 but hey, it still works :P 05:20:56 heh 05:20:58 oh well 05:21:34 OP_CHECKMULTISIG 05:21:36 that's the one 05:21:38 http://tidbit.co.in/ "Monetize without ads. Let your visitors help you mine Bitcoins." 05:21:58 oh yeah, that was some MIT folks 05:22:04 seems a tad impractical 05:22:08 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 05:22:13 great so now whenever Chrome is chewing bizarre amounts of CPU i can blame it on this 05:23:51 "20K hashes/client" /second presumably? 05:24:10 I sure hope so 05:24:20 TWENTY THOUSAND HASHES, EVER 05:24:25 lol 05:24:40 it's kind of a miniscule amount, unfortunately 05:24:44 so a visitor is worth on the order of 1e-8 dollars per 10 minutes 05:24:50 there's a reason people don't CPU mine anymore 05:24:52 minus pool fees 05:24:54 yeah.... 05:25:05 come back with WebCL :) 05:25:05 they said they were looking into WebGL for GPU mining 05:25:06 and litecoin 05:25:09 ja 05:25:15 but even that isn't really going to make much money 05:25:20 there's a reason people don't GPU mine anymore :P 05:29:45 Do you believe in Cartesian Duality, Physicalism, Idealism, or Neutral Monism? My opinion is Neutral Monism. 05:35:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:37:53 copumpkin: Litecoin GPU mining at least still does something. 05:38:05 But... yeah 05:38:55 not to mention dogecoin 05:39:47 -!- Bike has joined. 05:40:24 zzo38: would it be fair to describe these respectively as: both mind and matter exist; only matter exists; only mind exists; only one kind of thing exists and it's neither matter nor mind 05:41:03 so webcl's purpose is getting me to mine bitcoins for strangers, huh 05:49:35 -!- augur has joined. 05:50:28 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:50:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:52:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:03:36 kmc: Almost. Instead of "exist", put "fundamental". 06:03:59 Others are therefore derivative rather than fundamental. 06:04:47 i see 06:05:05 in that case I would have to go with neutral monism, as well 06:05:25 i'm pretty sold on monism through direct personal experience 06:06:03 and it seems very unlikely that humans already understand the universe well enough that our current concepts of "matter" or "mind" accurately describe the one true fundamental thing 06:06:12 though if I had to pick one to be closer I would go with "matter" 06:08:55 While that is a valid reason, it isn't how I would do it. Still, of course I don't know either, but I can make opinions, based on what I know about physics and mathematics and stuff. 06:13:09 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:13:17 okay 06:13:20 what are your reasons? 06:14:24 (it seems significant that our concept of "matter" has changed rather drastically in the past handful of generations) 06:16:26 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:16:29 * pikhq_ goes with physicalism 06:16:58 Some of my reasons are difficult to describe, but I can describe some of them. 06:18:41 For one thing, I am considering "matter" as the physical universe which includes matter, energy, subatomic particles, their direction of movement, spacetime. 06:19:58 (I think the way science goes at present, if we do discover the one true thing, it's more likely to get labeled as "matter" than "mind" but that seems like a cultural naming preference and nothing more) 06:20:49 kmc: Yes, that would be all it is perhaps, but I disagree. 06:21:30 -!- Koen1 has joined. 06:21:37 hello 06:23:09 hi 06:23:20 zzo38: with what do you disagree? 06:23:40 kmc: I disagree with that kind of naming scheme, but they can do what they want. 06:23:44 ok 06:24:03 (Both "matter" and "mind" are the wrong name for it.) 06:24:10 do you have a name for it? 06:24:44 "The truth is five, but men have only one name for it." 06:24:55 I think the "one true thing" is *really* mathematics, and not the universe. The universe is an instanteation of such thing, and it is possible for mathematical formulas to have multiple solutions, or might have no solutions, and therefore, nondeterminism, and furthermore, things that "work out as part of God's plan" or whatever you call that (I don't know a better way to describe it, hence the quote marks) 06:25:02 kmc: No, I don't 06:25:17 But I can think of kind of how it would work 06:26:10 but if the universe is an instantiation of mathematics, why this particular one? why these particular values for fundamental constants that could be different? 06:26:12 Mathematics is the real reality. 06:26:30 kmc: Because it is what is observed. 06:26:32 perhaps the most true model of the universe has no arbitrary constants, though 06:26:59 or perhaps other people in different universes with different values are wondering the same thing 06:27:02 Yes, that is possible, but, maybe it isn't the case; it leaves to see whether or not anyone can figure out whether or not it is possible. 06:28:34 But, it is also possible that both those things are possible! 06:36:22 I can also say that, for example, you can have a quantum state vector which has to be longer due to entangled with other things, it can include "mind", but not really; rather it is something else which includes a "mind", but "mind" also includes a "matter" and vice-versa too, kind of, similar to the Taijitu, almost. 06:37:40 it seems disappointing that the Taijitu is not recursive 06:38:32 I think I have seen a recursive version. 07:07:37 -!- shikhout has joined. 07:10:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:11:41 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:12:48 it seems disappointing that the paths in taijitu are not C^2 07:13:05 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 07:14:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:14:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nat%C3%BCrlich_gewachsenes_yin-yang-.jpg nature does it C^\infty like it should be; also i hope you're talking about this symbol. 07:17:24 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 07:19:34 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:21:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: I used to put messages here). 07:22:31 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:29:48 I do mean the symbol having the similar shape like that wood 07:29:50 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:30:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:32:54 -!- conehead has joined. 07:41:54 Subject: ARE YOU DEAD OR ALIVE,FROM CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA 07:42:05 "Thank God that after all your surffer, it is now well with you, looking forward to make the transfer today." 07:42:19 After all that surffer, it is indeed good to get some compensation. 08:20:42 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:22:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:34:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:51:12 what's a one true thing 09:04:07 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 09:04:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:09:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:17:33 Bike: "One True is the fictional hegemonic software program that takes control of individual human minds and entire human societies in John Barnes' two Meme Wars novels Candle and The Sky So Big and Black; --" 09:17:44 oh 09:17:58 I don't think they were talking about that, though. 09:18:08 fungot: What is the One True Thing? 09:18:08 fizzie: unequipped to represent swearing in cartoons? or is it to work between sun systems and other such slime infested garbage. 09:30:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:43:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:53:30 -!- Koen1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:13:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:19:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:22:30 -!- Sorella has joined. 10:33:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:57:02 What is fungot's opinion about oracle 10:57:02 Jafet: so i'm " hqm". oh, this problem. 10:57:19 fungot seems to think it's a problem 10:57:19 Jafet: yes, as i can figure out how to use it too. after paying dues on this machine is, 11:43:06 -!- CADD has joined. 11:43:15 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 11:48:53 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:59:20 -!- yorick has joined. 12:14:58 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:23:48 that's powerful. 12:23:59 fungot knows how to wield the One True Problem 12:23:59 FireFly: generate an executable. 12:24:06 naturally. 12:32:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:55:39 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:17:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:28:47 -!- tertu3 has joined. 13:45:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:22 -!- cjw-17 has joined. 14:34:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:39:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:47:11 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:53:00 -!- utkarsh has quit (Changing host). 14:53:00 -!- utkarsh has joined. 14:57:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:00:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:15:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:15:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:22:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 15:33:25 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:34:40 -!- password2_ has joined. 15:34:58 -!- HackEgo has joined. 16:08:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 16:12:35 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:24:16 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:30:52 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:32:11 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:34:58 -!- password2_ has changed nick to password2. 16:38:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:39:19 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:43:56 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:46:37 -!- luserdroog has joined. 16:47:16 join #libreoffice-dev 16:47:20 dammit 16:47:42 Why? 16:48:10 I'm too lazy to download the client, so I'm trying to use the webirc 16:48:22 I can't figure out how to join multiple channels 16:50:08 I don't know either 16:52:37 I am running into the problem that I don't know how to not write in Haskell any more 16:52:53 luserdroog, #channel1,#channel2 16:53:01 Separated by commas, no spaces 16:53:34 awesome, taneb. thanks. 16:53:40 Writing Haskell becomes a problem when you're actually writing Python 16:54:01 -!- luserdroog has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:54:45 -!- luserdroog has joined. 16:54:56 maybe you can let djinn write the code for you 16:58:51 Taneb: You can write in multiple kind of programming languages though isn't it? 16:58:58 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:59:22 zzo38, Python does not support tail recursion 17:01:10 Why doesn't it? 17:01:31 In a few cases it could be possible, if implemented properly 17:01:37 <`^_^v> because guido says being able to inspect the stack is more important 17:02:25 -!- ski has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:07:26 Anoter way would be to implement explicit tail recursion 17:09:26 Taneb: I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM 17:09:45 also, doesn't /join #channel work from the web client? 17:09:56 Yeah? 17:11:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:12:01 i'm just wondering why luserdroog didn't know about that 17:12:27 or if he did and it doesn't work 17:18:33 `quote guido 17:18:34 217) who is guido van rossum you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties 17:44:07 -!- cjw-17 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:44:10 -!- ski has joined. 17:57:37 Are there drivers for connecting displays and keyboard and other devices using ethernet? 17:58:59 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:00:30 you have a keyboard with ethernet? 18:03:01 I don't have such a thing 18:03:28 I have a keyboard with PS/2 18:04:22 why do you want drivers then 18:05:55 So that it can be use in case I do have one. Also with file system device (possibly using Plan 9 protocol and/or FTP); that would be the most useful use of devices with ethernet 18:06:24 do they even exist? 18:07:07 I don't know. 18:07:35 doesn't look like it 18:12:40 zzo38: there are tools for transmitting i/o over ethernet etc. between computers, which, if you have enough computers, may accomplish the same! 18:17:32 -!- luserdroog has joined. 18:24:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:29:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:47:01 I don't think many (any?) of those are particularly Ethernet-specific, though. 18:51:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:01:47 -!- tertu3 has joined. 19:04:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:11:44 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 19:12:23 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 19:14:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 19:14:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:37:46 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:47:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:23 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:10:14 -!- Albert has joined. 20:11:28 -!- Albert has left. 20:12:01 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 20:13:24 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:18:33 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:21:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:27:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:28:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:29:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:29:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:29:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:02 -!- augur has joined. 20:31:18 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:31:40 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:36 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:42:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:45:38 http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.7087 I like how this abstract makes "the D-Wave machine" sound like an alien artifact discovered on the far side of the moon 20:46:50 It sounds like a vibrator 20:49:05 a quantum vibrator... 20:53:06 used to produce orgasmic superpositions 20:54:17 kmc: did you come from blog.cr.yp.to? 20:55:01 Don't watch porn, you'll collapse their wavefunctions! 20:57:26 'precise terminology', djb is funny. "The latest speed reports for fully homomorphic encryption are—let me use precise technical terminology here, since I'm a big fan of careful benchmarking—ludicrously slow, but without ideal lattices they would be utterly ludicrously slow." 20:57:31 * kmc mis-parses "come from" due to previous topic 20:57:35 yes, that's where I got the link 21:01:10 did the previous topic involve modern INTERCAL? 21:05:25 What about quantum INTERCAL 21:05:41 Is there any quantum esolang by the way? 21:05:44 "Quantum INTERCAL" is an awful name, it's basically just multithreading 21:05:57 and yeah, there are quite a few, but they all seem to misunderstand quantum computation 21:06:05 and wouldn't actually be any faster on a quantum computer 21:06:22 Well esolangs aren't really made for speed 21:06:28 quantum intercal would have to allow superpositions of DOs and DONTs. 21:06:36 I do have a degree in quantum physics 21:06:43 I should give it a try someday 21:07:08 int-e: DO ABSTAIN FROM (5) WHILE REINSTATING IT 21:07:13 at least, I think that's the syntax 21:07:25 it might be "WHILE LEAVING IT REINSTATED" 21:08:21 Maybe I could make like 21:08:27 some particle automaton machine 21:08:33 So I was right. I had not seen Quantum INTERCAL before, just the concurrent one. 21:08:34 And have a bunch of various states 21:08:55 Like electrons would be bits and photons would be tits (eheheh) 21:09:29 hmpf. "threaded", of course. 21:09:58 programmers misunderstanding quantum????? why i never 21:10:13 and I guess a bunch of detectors too 21:10:22 With some RGN to simulate le quantum 21:10:45 QC is so alluringly close to things that programmers find familiar, but it's actually completely weird and alien 21:10:54 which causes a lot of confusion 21:11:44 What do programmers mistake? 21:12:32 the normal assumption is that all the threads are separate and can communicate with the outside world 21:12:46 actual quantum computing is more like, you have all these threads, but only one of them, chosen at random, actually does anything 21:13:09 but this isn't the same as just running one thread chosen at random because they can interfere with each other, altering the probabilities of which one is chosen 21:13:19 yeah 21:13:34 Well technically it's more like having one thread all along 21:13:36 the idea that your computer's state is a 2^n-dimensional complex vector is pretty alien to traditional CS 21:13:45 And then you project part of it upon measurement 21:15:49 one thing I love about quantum computing is that you can never guarantee a useful answer 21:16:00 Well technically it's also true with actual computing 21:16:01 all you can do is increase, as far as possible, the probability that the answer is useful 21:16:05 Although error rates are very low 21:16:14 then you check it on a classical computer to see if it was right or not, if not, try again 21:16:15 I think like one bit in 10^12 21:22:48 but a lot of classical algorithms are like that too 21:23:21 Also of note 21:23:24 it's an open question whether classical computers can do more in polynomial time when algorithms are allowed to be probabilistic 21:23:29 There are actual articles about time travelling quantum computing 21:29:17 kmc: is that P=NP, or some other problem? 21:35:10 the class of probabilistic algorithms I had in mind is BPP (there are some others) 21:35:37 -!- cjw-17 has joined. 21:36:35 those are poly-time algorithms where you can decrease the error rate by a factor of 2^n by running it n times 21:38:43 BPP contains P, but it's not known whether NP contains BPP or the other way or neither 21:38:55 (which is super counterintuitive to me and I tend to remember it wrong) 21:42:59 so yeah the open question I refer to is P ?= BPP 21:43:09 Boner poop polynomial? 21:43:19 definitely 21:46:18 a world where BPP is bigger than NP would be pretty weird 21:52:27 -!- cjw-17 has left. 21:53:13 kmc: are there any problems known to be in BPP but not known to be in NP? 22:06:59 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:20:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:23:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:53:43 -!- nooga has joined. 23:02:47 ais523: I'm not sure. http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/11425/problem-in-bpp-but-not-known-to-be-in-rp-or-co-rp seems relevant 23:03:19 (NP contains RP, and co-NP contains co-RP) 23:03:53 it's thought that BPP doesn't have any complete problems 23:12:52 classes like NP have an obvious complete problem, e.g. { (M,X,T) | nondet. tm M accepts X within polynomial time bound T } 23:14:33 every nondeterministic TM recognizes /some/ language in NP 23:14:45 but it's undecidable whether a nondeterministic TM recognizes a language in BPP 23:18:34 you can think of NP as a probabilistic class where false positives aren't allowed, but the probability of a false negative can be any number less than 1 (i.e. all but one path rejects) 23:19:53 kmc: that's similar to the oracle machine definition 23:22:48 which is? 23:25:29 Jeez, that was a strong gust of wind 23:26:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:27:19 kmc: imagine a P-time program that has a TC oracle to consult with, but the oracle might be untrustworthy; a problem's in NP if the P-time machine can solve it all the time with a trustworthy oracle, and with no false positives even with an untrustworthy oracle 23:28:11 -!- Koen1 has joined. 23:28:39 interesting 23:31:50 "TC" is unnecessarily precise though, anything between an NP-oracle and an "everything" oracle would work just as well i think... 23:32:06 oerjan: yeah, but you can't use an NP-oracle because that would be a recursive definition 23:32:16 right, but e.g. PSPACE 23:32:30 yeah, a PSPACE oracle would work just as well 23:32:43 btw, the oracle definition makes the difference between NP and co-NP pretty clear to me 23:32:56 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:35:07 i would assume you've read that PSPACE itself is equivalent to another such setup, where the P-time program can use random dice throws (as long as the oracle cannot know those) 23:36:38 s/know/predict/, i guess 23:37:39 oerjan: yeah, those definitions seem less pure to me than the one for NP, though 23:38:18 black panther party with np oracle 23:39:08 hm i wonder if there's anything interesting if the oracle _could_ predict the dice throws 23:40:57 hello 23:41:21 hi Koen1 23:41:52 ais523: the difference between NP and co-NP used to be clear to me. all the classes in the PSPACE hierarchy were. it was all just swapping universals with existentials, or prepending an extra one of those 23:42:13 but now i've forgotten exactly what the proposition all those quantifiers get prepended to is 23:46:42 i'd think any unquantified boolean expression in variables... 23:47:01 yeah but then what comes before the expression? 23:47:09 i mean, before the quantifiers 23:47:17 ...nothing 23:47:35 checking whether the whole thing is true or false 23:47:42 so NP is just \exists x P(x) 23:47:58 and co-NP is \forall x P(x)? 23:48:05 yes, with x an arbritrary number of variables though 23:48:26 sure, a vector 23:49:18 well those are complete problems for the class 23:50:33 so then P=co-P=P(x)? 23:51:15 it's coming back :P 23:51:50 yeah 23:52:26 or wait 23:52:35 no, not quite, for P itself 23:52:47 you need a circuit then, not just an expression. 23:52:58 at least if you use LOGSPACE-reductions. 23:53:34 if you use P-reductions, you can of course use something weaker, even trivial. 23:54:27 i thought there was some restriction on the expression P? like it has to be DTM-evaluatable in polynomial time or something? 23:54:39 what's DTM 23:54:53 deterministic turing machine 23:55:20 well by expression i mean an _actual_ expression built up with variables and boolean connections like and, or, not 23:55:20 -!- boily has joined. 23:55:31 and that can be evaluated in LOGSPACE iirc 23:55:39 hoily 23:55:48 which is weaker than P 23:57:24 at least i recall thinking about evaluating expressions in LOGSPACE once, it's a little tricky if the expression tree is unbalanced 23:57:24 yeah, it's polynomial time as long as the expression is finite then, which all unquantified expressions in a finite number of variables are... 23:57:30 but still possible 23:58:18 quintopia: well the expression is part of the problem you are solving, which thus by convention has to be expressible as a finite string... 23:58:20 * quintopia hands oerjan a poly-time 3-SAT solver 23:58:28 ooh, shiny! 23:58:40 * oerjan goes to break some RSA 23:59:23 it's easy to build a poly-time SAT solver, it just needs to double the amount of energy / matter in use at each time step, so.... watch out 23:59:36 * oerjan reads the fine print: O(x^Ackermann(5,5)) 2014-02-15: 00:00:19 yeah sorry about that 00:00:22 best i could do 00:00:38 oh well 00:01:24 on the bright side, norway is still in the lead at the games, and i got a stroopwaffel for valentimes 00:01:58 nice! 00:02:24 i like stroopwafels 00:02:25 despite several of our best having some bad luck 00:04:12 apparently our athletes are not used to doing competitive skiing in > +10 celsius temperatures 00:05:27 (that's 50 fahrenheit for you weirdos) 00:10:01 oerjan: Not if you sort by number of gold medals hth 00:10:53 hmm the U.S. is second in all-time winter olympics medals. Austria is third. Canada is way behind. I would have expected better from Canada. 00:10:56 i haven't actually kept up with the games enough to know what actual score is 00:11:40 "The gold first ranking system described above is used by most of the world media, as well as the IOC. While the gold first ranking system has been used occasionally by some American media outlets, newspapers in the United States and Canada primarily publish medal tables ordered by the total number of medals won,[6][7][8][9][10][11] and Canada used the total medal count on the official website ... 00:11:46 ... for the Vancouver Olympics." 00:12:20 Of course the only true ranking system is to order the table in ascending Levenshtein distance of the country name from the string "Finland", in which we've generally been doing p. well. 00:12:46 of course. 00:15:06 order gold-first, the top two are still norway and U.S., but then third goes to Soviet Union (for now) and fourth to Germany. apparently Austria gets on the podium a lot, but not in the top spot as often as Germany. 00:15:54 Finland also drops quite a lot when going from total to gold (in winter game medals). 00:15:56 it would probably be more fair to compare on the basis of golds/games attended 00:18:07 "Thomas Hicks (a Briton running for the United States) was the first to cross the finish-line legally, after having received several doses of strychnine sulfate (a common rat poison, which stimulates the nervous system in small doses) mixed with brandy from his trainers. He was supported by his trainers when he crossed the finish, but is still considered the winner." 00:18:28 (For the 1904 games' marathon.) 00:19:15 what 00:19:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1904_Summer_Olympics#Marathon 00:19:42 seems like the kind of thing they'd retroactively toss out of the record books 00:19:44 Must've been kind of different event, back then. 00:20:20 well historically, you're _supposed_ to die after doing the marathon. 00:20:25 Also this bit: "A Cuban postman named Felix Carbajal joined the marathon, arriving at the last minute. He had to run in street clothes that he cut around the legs to make them look like shorts. He stopped off in an orchard en route to have a snack on some apples, which turned out to be rotten. The rotten apples caused him to have to lie down and take a nap. Despite falling ill from the apples ... 00:20:31 ... he finished in fourth place." 00:20:54 that's hilarious 00:21:12 where were those games 00:21:34 "The participants totalled 651 athletes – 645 men and 6 women representing 12 countries. However, only 42 events (less than half) actually included athletes who were not from the United States." 00:21:43 In St. Louis, Missouri. 00:22:03 Easy way to rack up those medals, I guess? 00:22:47 [[ St. Louis organizers repeated the mistakes made at the 1900 Summer Olympics in Paris. Competitions were reduced to a side-show of the World's Fair and were lost in the chaos of other, more popular cultural exhibits. David R. Francis, the President of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition, declined to invite anybody else to open the Games and, on July 1 did so himself in a scaled-down short and ... 00:22:53 ... humdrum "ceremony". ]] 00:22:56 Such humble beginnings. 00:25:34 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 00:25:42 haha 00:26:22 and yeah, there are quite a few, but they all seem to misunderstand quantum computation <-- hm i vaguely thought we had at least one that used proper quantum gates 00:29:35 quantum computing is already so esoteric it's hard to make an esolang out of it 00:30:15 actual quantum computing is more like, you have all these threads, but only one of them, chosen at random, actually does anything <-- i am not entirely sure you're sufficiently less confused than the average programmer, here 00:30:44 oerjan: I implemented a quantum computer simulator as an A-level project 00:30:57 okay, i guess that counts 00:30:58 and ran Shor's algorithm on it 00:31:09 i knew what you were getting at 00:32:04 oerjan: well the next thing he said was about interference. 00:32:13 without that it's a pretty incomplete description, yeah 00:32:19 also I was trying to fix the typical analogy that people use, rather than create a new one from scratch 00:32:20 right 00:32:38 i think whatsisname did a pretty good job of summarizing for the lay person. "You set up an entangled system to performs some computation on all answers simultaneously, such that the right is probabilistically amplified while all the wrong answers destructively interfere" 00:32:48 *right answer 00:33:03 the thing is that afair you cannot actually _distinguish_ threads that have the same outside visible result, which is the same as those that interfere with each other 00:33:59 so saying that any particular thread actually runs is slightly dubious in my mind. although i guess the math works out. 00:34:17 now we're getting into interpretation of QM territory :) 00:34:29 bring back zzo38 the neutral monist! 00:34:30 i guess 00:34:34 oh no 00:34:58 Zzo38's Neutral Monastery 00:35:00 I know that someone who allegedly know what they were talking about claimed that practical quantum computers would be proof of the many-worlds interpretation 00:35:04 * quintopia applies to join 00:35:14 on the basis that there wasn't enough computational power in the universe, thus the computation must extend through more than one 00:35:36 seems doubtful 00:36:30 my view seems to be heading towards the fundamentals being information and consciousness, which only partially correspond to matter and mind 00:36:45 -!- kmc has set topic: Remove the stone of shame! Attach the stone of triumph! | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 00:37:09 quinthellopia! 00:37:19 good char siu evening! 00:37:38 but still i'm not really monist because i don't see how information alone can be conscious, nor consciousness alone can have ordered experiences 00:37:40 ais523: what basis did they have for making an assertion about the amout of comput. power in the universe? 00:38:18 kmc: I think it was based on the volume of the universe and the theoretical maximum information storage density 00:38:46 oerjan: no that's wrong you're crazy hth 00:39:23 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:40:05 quintopia: OKAY 00:40:17 quintopia: whatshisname = aaronson? 00:40:52 ais523: it seems there could be a number of ways to store more information without requiring extra whole parallel universe. not that i'm opposed to the idea... 00:40:55 oerjan: yes 00:44:13 quintopia: i must be crazy i though aaronson treated that poor crackpot who challenged him to a P vs. NP bet the other day rather unnecessarily rudely. 00:44:42 oerjan: i missed it what happened 00:47:26 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1687#comment-100407 00:48:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:49:12 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:49:38 eek it's shikhin's evil mirror twin 00:49:39 zzo38: are you, in fact, a neutral monist? 00:49:52 quintopia: I think so. 00:49:56 if a constructive proof of P=NP were discovered (e.g. P-time algo for 3-SAT), just how badly would it destroy the world? 00:50:35 ais523: assuming the polynomial is also reasonably small, all public key crypto, *whoosh* 00:50:37 like, would we recover quickly from the death of all widely used crypto? would nothing happen because people fixed issues before it could be exploited? would the new algorithm lead to an eternal age of peace and prosperity? 00:50:40 oerjan: yeah, exactly 00:51:15 and it would destroy public key crypto in _general_, unlike quantum computers (afaik) 00:52:07 It may mix up things badly but not the destruction of the world. necessary. And maybe P=NP is untrue which means there is no valid proof (but maybe that, too, is unprovable). 00:52:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:52:22 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:54:09 it might also put a dent in private key crypto that isn't truly unbreakable like one time pads 00:54:29 Possibly that too. 00:56:01 since it might allow you to find by guessing which key gives the most readable decrypted message 00:56:11 or something like that 00:57:11 (this doesn't work for one time pad because then _all_ readable messages are given by some key) 00:59:29 oerjan: i read the thread. it didn't seem that bad to me. 01:01:32 ais523: crypto would recover if quantum crypto became readily available. however, all my BTC becomes worthless then, so let's hope it doesn't happen. 01:02:52 lots of things become worthless if that happens 01:03:00 plus lots of your previous encrypted data is magically transparent 01:03:07 cryptocalypse 01:03:44 eh i don't have much in the way of encrypted data i need to keep private 01:07:00 quintopia: hm i'm not meaning rude in an "insult with swear words" sense, but rude in a "doesn't try to understand that the other guy sees things differently (albeit insanely) and calls him dishonest if he doesn't live up demands he's never accepted" sense. 01:07:20 *up to 01:09:00 It is that you bet $200k, keeping your confidence about the matter, but you have the choice of paying as low as one (1) US dollar, AND I have the right to refuse any amount above $1. I think that is clear. Let me know if you understand otherwise. 01:09:04 what. 01:09:17 i see it as him being a busy guy who does have time or mental energy to try to understand every crackpot he comes in contact with. he dismissed a potentially lengthy and fruitless comment thread in order to keep the SNR high for the rest of his readers. 01:09:43 oh well 01:10:07 *doesn't 01:10:24 I don't get that quote at all 01:10:36 elliott: ok he doesn't have the best english either :P 01:11:35 I can't even think of any interpretation of that that makes any sense at all 01:12:57 it makes perfect sense to me hth 01:13:10 (if i don't try to assume the guy is rational, that is) 01:13:59 okay but... well, fine 01:14:03 that's kind of dissatisfying as an answer 01:14:24 CANNOT IMAGINE WHY 01:15:39 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:17:42 -!- Koen1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 01:17:47 elliott: thinking some more about this, i think he has strange ethical principles about betting large amounts of money, that conflict with other principles about making this a real bet, in an unresolved way. 01:18:35 oerjan: why not just ask for a $1 bet, though? 01:18:40 scott seemed perfectly happy with that 01:21:43 -!- metasepia has joined. 01:24:34 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:28:22 i have two keyboards hooked up to this computer and i'm currently typing with one hand on each of them 01:28:26 kind of an odd sensation 01:31:05 So how fast can you double tap 01:32:09 elliott: well that wouldn't be a real bet, would it >:) 01:32:10 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26187725 01:32:29 watching bitcoiners realise that unregulated money is actually kind of awful is always heartwarming 01:36:30 ~metar CYUL 01:36:30 CYUL 150100Z 26013G18KT 4SM -SN FEW030 BKN060 M05/M07 A2959 RMK SC2SC4 SLP020 01:36:40 the -SN. it won't stop. 01:39:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:46:53 Hmm, I wonder if trying to define lenses in Scheme is as silly as trying to define do notation in Scheme 01:54:45 I'm not sure how well it'd work without the types 01:55:01 You'd need a generic map, at the very least 01:56:32 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:56:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AMŒBAL CHICKEN). 01:56:54 Need, or want? 01:57:05 Certainly want it for mapped/traverse, but... 01:57:22 I believe Racket's map is generic across sequences but not all possible functors 01:57:33 Or are you talking about the zipper with delimited continuation thing? 01:57:52 ~metar EFHK 01:57:56 ... 01:58:00 I keep *doing* it. 01:58:30 couldn't you just pass the map function to the lens as an argument 01:59:08 i guess that ruins lens composition = function composition, but scheme isn't big on the latter anyway, i think 01:59:25 I'm completely ignoring lens composition = function composition 01:59:28 I really don't see the point 01:59:43 I have a lens as a structure containing a getter and a modifier 01:59:50 ah. 02:00:00 Should I have it have a setter too? Are there lens-like things that have setters but no modifiers? 02:00:31 hm lens library's Setter is a modifier, anyway 02:01:16 Sgeo: if you really don't see the point, then you really don't see the point of lens, which is composition with the subtyping hierarchy 02:01:17 and it's at the end of the hierarchy, so nothing weaker 02:01:40 if you just want to define lenses then ok. (but they're boring) 02:02:48 elliott: I'm kind of allowing the definition of lenses with no getter, although not in a particularly clean way (just causing composition to error if the composed lens's getter is attempted to be used) 02:02:48 I keep *doing* it. <-- i note he managed to accidentally evade your question, too 02:02:56 Not really sure what other types of things there are :/ 02:04:02 Sgeo: have you looked at the diagram at http://hackage.haskell.org/package/lens 02:04:13 I... tried, once 02:04:17 I can try again 02:04:21 traversals, lenses, prisms, isos are important 02:04:37 the weakened versions of those without setting too, to a lesser degree 02:05:16 hm MonadicFold is that a bit new? 02:05:16 I think I have traversals covered (or, as well as can be given the lack of generic traverse), isos are stronger than lenses, aren't they? But I do want prisms, haven't given them enough thought 02:05:34 you don't have traversals unless they compose with lenses 02:05:39 oerjan: no 02:06:13 What's the difference between a traversal and a setter? 02:06:27 ok 02:06:29 um, most everything 02:08:05 Maybe I should give some thought to attempting a van whatshisname based implementation 02:09:11 Also, Racket sucks enough at nested data structures that even lenses, by themselves, are interesting... 02:09:12 not possible in scheme 02:09:31 you need a proper type system with HKP and typeclasses (or else subtyping, maybe, possibly, if it's flexible enough) 02:09:39 hmm 02:09:43 or else awful ugly runtime stuff I guess 02:09:47 but I don't want to think about that 02:10:09 HKP? 02:10:55 Also, I don't really get how typeclasses can be mandatory unless there are functions that need to be polymorphic on the return type. Racket does have generic functions 02:10:58 higher-kinded polymorphism 02:11:17 anyway, I suggest you study the design of the lens library more. then you will be able to make your own judgements 02:12:10 Probably a good idea 02:12:11 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:20:11 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:22:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 02:23:11 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:28:34 (apply (compose1 compose1 curry) 02:28:43 At this point, I should probably just use a fold or something 02:33:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:36:00 -!- augur has joined. 02:36:24 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest16220. 02:41:11 -!- Guest16220 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:42:28 Fuck YouTube and fuck the cloud 02:42:40 My favorites list seems to have been truncated to 100 02:42:54 cloudy with a chance of fuck 02:42:58 `coins 02:43:00 bibleiocoin wadublecoin feetlecoin iastacoin chacoin oaicoin atlycoin pumcoin utquethesecoin laughcoin bibillcoin q-revacoin wtfzomecoin gritseifcoin yagecoin ementcoin biblecoin smasycoin lolangcoin optercoin 02:43:59 it seems to be on a scriptural streak 02:44:33 i think wtfzomecoin could catch on 02:47:53 This is the chess game of someone's dreaming: 8/3q4/6nk/4P1pp/8/2Q3K1/4B2P/8 Black to play. 02:48:55 is this some known notation 02:49:21 Yes, it is FFEN 02:49:23 -!- conehead has joined. 02:49:48 There is several software to interpret it (including my own "TeX Chess"), or you can do it manually. 02:53:32 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:35:36 Uppercase letter means white pieces, lowercase letter for black pieces, starting at the rank 8, given each row, each digit means that many vacant cells. 03:42:13 -!- augur has joined. 03:42:37 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest20309. 03:48:38 kmc: I think this discussion would interest you http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1xw70y/tls12/ 03:51:57 -!- Guest20309 has changed nick to augur_. 03:52:51 `coins 03:52:52 ballfroilcoin frabcoin korbcoin zoppcoin piecescoin lazacoin veicoin x-dcoin regocoin sendiecoin squatrovincoin cyclocoin eodecoin quatrestkindcoin gyptcoin chonalcoin lyapaschcoin anocoin chroucoin tingcoin 04:02:08 so that thing which lets you make $0.000000078 per hour from your website visitors by making their browsers mine bitcoin is about to get sued in New Jersey http://tech.mit.edu/V134/N4/abelson.html 04:07:22 it was actually deployed? 04:07:51 don't know 04:08:27 I am starting to appreciate Haskell's curried by default more 04:08:48 Also wish Racket had less... insane curry function 04:08:50 And uncurry 04:18:05 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:19:01 curry is a good default 04:28:34 currywurst is a good default 04:29:10 Wish I could bring rudybot in here so I could complain about curry 04:33:07 ((curry f) a b c) will NOT call f (and instead return a curry) unless the max num of arguments is reached. (((curry f) a b c) d) WILL call f unless the minimum number of arguments hasn't been reached 04:37:37 Taneb: I keep hearing that ZRH is very expensive. 04:43:57 -!- conehead has joined. 04:51:26 http://www.twitch.tv/twitchplayspokemon 04:54:19 Also, what is this 'cut' everyone talks about? 04:55:52 Do you mean the 'cut' move in Pokemon, or something else? 04:57:38 The 'cut' move in Pokemon 04:58:05 It is a HM move, which can be used in or outside of battle. Outside of battle, it can cut some trees, and can cut grass too. 04:58:17 (They will grow back if you leave the area) 04:58:54 Is it fairly simple to get? 04:59:21 You need an HM, a Pokemon capable of learning it, and I think you need a gym badge too. 04:59:21 -!- password2 has joined. 04:59:23 Probably not as easy as ... saving ... appears to be 05:04:02 Does that explain it? 05:06:15 -!- tertu3 has joined. 05:07:44 can you explain this behavior: 05:07:59 gremlins! 05:08:08 $ echo $'a O\nai P' | sort 05:08:08 ai P 05:08:08 a O 05:08:26 with LANG=C sort it sorts the other way 05:08:41 so what is the locale? 05:08:42 Then set LANG=C 05:08:54 In fact LANG=C should *always* be the default 05:08:55 if you en_US.UTF-8 05:09:03 s/if you // 05:09:15 I always set LANG=C when working on UNIX systems 05:09:25 `run LANG=en_US.UTF-8 echo $'a O\nai P' | sort 05:09:26 ai P \ a O 05:09:45 `run LANG=en_US.UTF-8 echo $'a O\nax P' | sort 05:09:45 a O \ ax P 05:10:18 `run LANG=en_US.UTF-8 echo $'a O\nai N' | sort 05:10:19 ai N \ a O 05:10:30 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 05:10:34 um 05:10:44 `run LANG=en_US.UTF-8 echo $'a Q\nai P' | sort 05:10:44 ai P \ a Q 05:10:50 `run LANG=en_US.UTF-8 echo $'a A\nai B' | sort 05:10:51 a A \ ai B 05:11:14 so it ignores space 05:11:44 oh 05:11:55 that's much simpler than the theories i was trying to come up with 05:12:02 i don't see the problem, it sorts _precisely_ like [[Language_list]] hth 05:13:45 thx tdh hand 05:13:53 yw hand 05:14:03 Perhaps a more versatile sorting system would allow two inputs so one is used as the sort key. (For example, the other input could be generated using sed) 05:14:20 you need 'cut' to get past a certain point in the game right 05:14:27 as well as 'surf' and maybe some others 05:14:28 But a UNIX pipe doesn't take two inputs. 05:14:41 kmc: Yes, you need 'cut' and 'surf', at least. 05:14:58 zzo38: do you have any chess variant based on pokemon 05:15:00 which game is this 05:15:12 shachaf: Pokemon game. 05:15:54 kmc: I once tried making some shogi variant involving pokemon somehow, but never completed it. 05:29:34 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:34:28 kmc: it depends on which Pokémon game you're talking about 05:39:12 dynamic scope is... tempting, as a solution to how to fake typeclasses 05:39:32 Would need to provide the scoping at each time the lens is used, but... 05:39:37 erm, the parameter's value 05:42:56 But, I like the game of Pokemon Card, anyways; I don't have large amount of interests in the other game 05:48:23 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:49:45 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:02:52 sdsdsdsdsd 06:14:56 `coins 06:14:58 dumpingcoin allothesscoin lestolcoin dumbscoptocoin jumecoin taxianuiardingybilitategrougheficcoin albolcoin pseudcoin infursumamcoin podanguagcriptcoin byterchacoin concallcoin chicoin barbicoin resophyrcoin schesircoin chulgcoin tamploicoin percacoin greecoin 06:16:48 `run words --german 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 06:16:49 spezimcoin chaftensionencoin irchsmaßnahmercoin sonszusaticoin bungenencoin ivissessignifischecoin utmachofsencoin wischaldwirtsortcoin sterncoin cograrbecoin aufendescoin selcoin munischenagelcoin dasstatincoin gigenbegleichtcoin faktentmarocoin safroncoin geweichencoin vorschulspasthigkeitcoin hetendorkcoin 06:18:52 Now you have non-ASCII letters in it! 06:21:52 -!- conehead has joined. 06:23:39 it's true 06:24:35 scheißecoin 06:27:11 What verb means, making someone else sleeping? 06:29:25 sleepificating 06:29:47 Is that a real word? 06:36:15 I am trying to calculate a probablility of a deck winning/losing against a "59eye1Mewtwo" deck. 06:36:39 zzo38: it isn't a real word 06:36:51 ais523: Then what is the proper word? 06:36:57 I'm not sure 06:37:04 oh, right 06:37:05 "sedate" 06:37:07 to put someone to sleep 06:37:13 not exactly right, but pretty close 06:37:25 OK 06:37:30 sedate implies some force though 06:38:07 What kinds of force? 06:38:23 password2: not necessarily, it could also involve sleeping pills or similar 06:40:43 which still is some force manner 06:41:56 your forcing the person to sleep 06:42:08 they are not going to sleep naturaly 06:44:15 and sedate does not always imply sleep too 06:44:27 languages suck 06:45:01 well at least it's a real word :-( 06:45:10 hehe 06:45:23 you can also say you tuck someone in 06:45:40 it depends on what you want to say obviously 06:47:15 I want to say to make them to sleep even if they would not ordinarily to do so in such a daytime. 06:47:34 ah , then sedate is mote apt 06:47:35 "tire"? that means "to make tired", which also isn't quite the same 06:47:47 *more 06:47:48 Yes, probably "sedate" is OK 06:59:16 -!- password2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:05:34 -!- CADD has joined. 07:06:05 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest81947. 07:15:05 -!- Guest81947 has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 07:20:18 A deck consisting of fifty-nine basic energy plus BULBASAUR [Lv15] is *guaranteed* to beat a deck consisting of fifty-nine basic energy plus MEWTWO [Lv53], even though the latter is OK in many cases (but less than 50%), and the former is pretty bad in general. 07:20:52 I can give you the card texts if you want them. 07:20:54 does the bulbasaur have some protection from paralysis? 07:21:07 by the way, it's usual to say the species and set that the card comes from, rather than species and level 07:21:10 ais523: No, but MEWTWO [Lv53] doesn't paralyze. 07:21:12 because species/level can be ambiguous sometimes 07:21:18 zzo38: oh, just blocks damage 07:21:36 ais523: It is ambiguous only with the newer sets, not in the original game, which is the only one I am considering. 07:22:03 (And, species/set can be ambiguous too, but only with some sets) 07:23:09 BULBASAUR [Lv15] has 5 HP and the following two attacks: - { * } RECOVER: Remove one damage from this card. - { % } POISON SEED: Defending pokemon card is poisoned. 07:23:43 MEWTWO [Lv53] has 6 HP and the attacks: - { @* } PSYCHIC [1+]: Add 1 damage per energy card attached to opponent's active pokemon card. - { @@ } BARRIER: You must discard one energy card attached to this card in order to use this attack. All effects of attacks (including damage) that affect this card are prevented during opponent's next turn. 07:23:51 Do you see how it works? 07:23:53 and the poison effect beats mewtwo 07:24:06 before it can get Barrier in place 07:24:38 Actually, the poison by itself isn't quite enough. 07:24:58 There are three other cards that can guarantee poison on first turn, but none of them are good enough. 07:25:21 actually, I think the Mewtwo wins 07:25:24 it just uses Psychic 07:25:51 I did consider that, and that is why WEEDLE [Lv15] and ODDISH [Lv21] lose. 07:26:21 Mewtwo does 20 (or 2 with your notation) damage per turn: 10, plus 10 for the Grass energy that Bulbasaur attaches to be able to use Poison Seed 07:26:35 Yes, but you can recover! 07:27:16 oh right, poison does 20 per turn, doesn't it 07:27:18 not 10 07:27:23 because it triggers on both players' turns 07:27:32 Yes, it triggers on both player's turn. 07:28:20 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 07:29:09 Now hopefully you can understand it. 07:30:08 so the thing about that mewtwo deck is, why not use four mewtwo rather than one? 07:30:45 you lose the ability to attach energy on the turn you play a mewtwo, but the opponent probably can't oneshot it 07:30:48 so you can get back to the same situation again 07:31:25 I suppose it may sometimes work, but not always, and anyways that isn't the original deck. 07:31:59 You need to actually get the second one in time. If you do, then yes it works, in this case. 07:32:43 However, having four Mewtwo cards makes it worse against some other decks (those with GUST OF WIND, for example). 07:32:53 ah right 07:33:18 they actually reprinted Gust of Wind recently, as Pokémon Catcher 07:33:28 and it was one of the best cards legal in only-recent-cards-are-allowed games 07:34:15 OK, although I am considering only the original game. Yes it is a pretty good card. 07:34:28 "the care and feeding of lenses" 07:34:32 This amuses me for some reason 07:34:56 it's better nowadays because people play so many Pokémon that have low HP but good effects from the bench 07:35:01 and try to never let them become active 07:38:16 OK 07:39:55 Hmm, would I need to allow arbitrary Applicatives, or can I allow merely Identity, Const, and ... others specifically needed for lenses? 07:40:20 I don't like the new game much, and play the old one in either "cube constructed" format (there is a list of valid cards, and you can include up to four of any of them), or "cube draft" format (a bunch of cards are mixed up and drafted; you may then take any of them plus any number of basic energy cards to make a 60-card deck, and rules for evolution are a bit less strict). 07:40:29 But mostly I like the Pokemon card puzzles. 07:41:23 If you can make up any, please show to me; I like to see it, too. 07:43:52 (Note: You are allowed to include cards you do not own any copies of. This is the difference from the standard format.) 07:45:24 I happen to find that the tactics involved in Pokemon card (at least the original game) are extremely positional. 07:46:02 I don't know if you (or anyone else) agree/disagree with this statement. 08:00:05 I like Magic: the Gathering card puzzle too. Do you know how to buy that book? 08:06:22 -!- CADD has joined. 08:06:38 I usually use GUST OF WIND defensively, unless I can win on the same turn. 08:06:45 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest69358. 08:06:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:10:57 -!- Guest69358 has quit (Client Quit). 08:38:53 Did anyone ever, in a game of chess, checkmate with a en passan move? 08:43:06 I didn't, at least 08:43:19 it's possible but the conditions that can do it are very contrived 08:50:27 Yes, I believe that 08:53:47 I have seen a chess puzzle involving checkmate by en passan. 08:57:07 This should be easy to search for 08:57:17 ?4 ?x?3# 08:57:18 Maybe you meant: v @ ? . 08:58:41 A rarer checkmate move might be O-O-O# 09:01:06 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 09:01:26 However, I cannot find an online database that allows searching by move 09:01:31 And that is easier to search for if you have a PGN file 09:02:05 I would like to have a database of chess games in SQL format; it could bein PGN, and I could then write a program to convert it into SQL so that it can be queried. 09:04:26 (The SQL could also be used to calculate statistics.) 09:07:29 -!- nooga has joined. 09:10:23 -!- password2 has joined. 09:12:34 This is an easy retroanalysis problem (at least to me it is; I have solved it; apparently "everybody has already seen" it, but I haven't): 6b1/7p/8/8/8/8/8/K1k5. What did White just play? 09:14:20 So, I downloaded this list of 37000 tournament games, and there are 300 checkmates in it 09:14:27 Fuck chess 09:15:38 Also there are gems like 41.g6 Nxe3 42.g7# Qxg7 43.Rxg7 Kxg7 09:17:07 What? Is that a typing error? 09:17:39 Jafet: nice 09:21:35 Sadly, it turned out to be a typo 09:21:40 Jafet: What tournaments are they, and what time periods? 09:22:03 Yes, I thought it must be a typo, since it can't be anything else 09:22:31 http://www.mark-weeks.com/chess/pgn/ 09:24:13 Without downloading them I don't know what time-periods/tournaments; do you know which ones are in the files *you* downloaded? (I don't even know which file you downloaded, either) 09:24:37 I downloaded all of them 09:24:43 zzo38: if it's Black's move, Ka1 (from a2); if it's White's move, Ka1 (from b1), then Black played Kc1 in response 09:24:51 So, I don't know which file it is in either 09:24:55 I feel like I'm missing something 09:25:23 oh, the Ka1 if it's Black's move captures a knight that just gave discovered check 09:25:27 Jafet: Well, do you know what time periods they span? 09:25:28 that's probably the thing you're meant to work out 09:25:55 ais523: Yes, that is my solution too; the king moved from a2 to a1, capturing a knight. 09:29:34 oh jeez 09:29:46 Someone discovered a 549-move 7-piece endgame 09:30:36 coppro: Really? What is that one? 09:30:56 Do you have the FEN or PGN? 09:30:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:31:01 http://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/diary.htm 09:34:50 "These extreme positions are the outposts, the Everests or Mariana Trenches of chess’ state space: they should be hailed, visited and contemplated not only because they are there but because the lines from them can perhaps be analysed and explained in terms of some chessic principles." it's official: i don't get chess 09:41:01 zzo38: http://codepad.org/Yl4yEnxW I cut off some of the games and put 1/2-1/2 at the end 09:41:30 Most of them seem to be due to very confused players thinking that their move was a mate 09:41:46 Sadly, no actual mates 09:47:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:47:26 Line 191 contradicts line 199. 09:48:41 That is one of the games that were cut off 09:52:42 How did it get cut off? 09:54:13 I used egrep -A1 09:54:51 I did not expect lengthy continuations after a mate to be that frequent 09:57:06 O, OK 10:00:50 I _think_ that explicit rewriting macros make it easier than syntax-case to deliberately have an unhygienic symbol exposed at the ultimate use site, even when a macro has emitted a macro call. I am not certain whether this is a point in favor or against either system 10:05:40 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:26:58 that scenario sounds quite.... esoteric 10:29:27 -!- luserdroog has joined. 11:00:53 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:11:33 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:33:31 -!- nooga has joined. 11:33:58 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:48:12 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:06:31 -!- mtve has joined. 12:23:16 Bike: chessic principles sounds like something someone would say if they've never tinkered with a combinatorial problem other than chess, and they've tinkered with way too much chess. 12:23:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:24:21 or maybe i just don't get chess 12:26:13 but i mean how can you think that a combinatorial accident that severe in a game where each piece pretty much follows its own rules is guided by a "principle" 12:28:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:28:12 zzo38: so, you like chess variations, do you think the usual rules are somehow particularly optimal? like, say i take two pieces in the starting position and exchange them, will you get a worse game for any pair, or will it usually be just chess? 12:29:07 perhaps at least exchanging a soldier with something will lead to a more aggressive game (or something stupid) 12:32:28 (*pawn) 12:38:17 i need to go on the wiki and post things that are obvious formatting and policy errors more often. if i don't give oerjan something to fix, the wiki goes whole days without anything happening at all! 12:39:55 you could add all the italics back into the BF Joust article so we can revert it back to the current formatting 12:40:02 (note: don't actually do that) 12:40:32 what was italicized? i don't remember 12:41:25 i like italics. i think it improves readability when used on variable names 12:41:26 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:42:05 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 12:42:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 12:45:11 I don't remember either, random sentences / part of sentences, I think 12:46:13 sometimes when i'm writing something i feel like using italics 12:46:23 and then i realize it looks silly 12:46:33 but then i use it anyway 12:46:37 and then later i remove it 12:47:10 i mean if it's really important you want to emphasize it 12:47:37 maybe i should use colors instead 12:47:55 try bangs! they are great for emphasis! and if the info is surprising, try interrobangs too! 12:48:08 like 50 different shades of gray that tell you how erotic the sentence is 12:49:39 -!- yorick has joined. 12:49:44 black on black = "so hardcore, we had to turn the lights off while it was happening to save our sanity" 12:50:29 super secksy; highlight at your own risk! 12:50:56 your mom 12:51:06 exactly 12:51:57 ono someone died at climax 12:52:31 exposionnnnnnnn 12:52:35 don't worry, it was your uncle, not your mom 12:52:42 thank 12:52:42 god 13:18:18 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:20:54 hellooodl 13:42:04 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:52:10 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:54:42 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:09:28 So anyway 14:09:40 I am wondering about making a quantum computin' esolang 14:09:48 -!- password2 has joined. 14:09:50 Maybe using 2+1 D quantum fields 14:11:10 Possibly some Befunge like structure 14:12:25 even "regular" quantum programs are an esolang 14:12:42 Who knows 14:12:49 Maybe in the future, they won't be~ 14:12:58 High school kids will learn about quantum java 14:13:43 And quantum php 14:14:50 now I'm wondering whether to hope quantum PHP is never invented 14:14:58 or to hope that it is invented so I can see what sort of disaster it is 14:15:06 I think I'll go for "invented, but nobody uses it" 14:15:24 If you crash it it will destroy the entire universe! 14:15:49 Slereah__: the destroy_the_universe function is implemented so as to be able to quantum bogosort, I take it? 14:15:59 also because the name's long enough to avoid hash collisions 14:16:00 It would certainly be nice 14:16:16 Quantum bogosort sounds like a good test program for my quantum computer 14:16:30 (PHP's original hash function was mostly based on strlen) 14:16:37 I guess a quantum befunge kind of thing would go well with my recent learning of object oriented things 14:17:29 Befunge is OO? 14:17:42 No, but I can't be arsed to write it entirely in C 14:18:49 I guess I'll just try some particle beams, quantum gates and detectors 14:26:11 Though I wonder if I can also work in some less artificial quantum states 14:26:12 -!- augur_ has joined. 14:26:23 Like just defining an actual wavefunction in a box 14:35:10 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:41:45 every instruction gives a superposition of 2-10 types of undefined behavior 14:42:48 i don't actually know if php is notorious for undefined behavior; instead, perhaps the instructions give a superposition of different behavior just because they provide so many built-in functions they run out of words 14:44:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:01:25 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:05:32 -!- augur has joined. 15:05:52 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest30609. 15:06:25 -!- Guest30609 has changed nick to augur_. 15:13:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:16:07 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:16:10 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:16:40 -!- tromp_ has joined. 15:45:21 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:48:11 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:48:13 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:06:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 16:42:34 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:46:16 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:46:52 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:51:20 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:22:30 oklopol_: exactly 17:25:43 -!- nisstyre_ has joined. 17:36:00 -!- augur has joined. 17:36:24 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest66977. 17:50:29 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:50:44 -!- nisstyre_ has joined. 17:57:23 -!- luserdroog has joined. 18:00:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:20:35 -!- Guest66977 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:52 -!- nys has joined. 18:23:01 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:30:00 -!- oklopol_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:43:26 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:43:30 Racketers are having trouble understanding fmap not in terms of 'elements' 18:43:37 of a sequence 18:46:54 damn racketers 18:48:08 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:51:18 -!- augur_ has joined. 18:54:20 -!- augur_ has quit (Client Quit). 18:54:37 -!- augur_ has joined. 18:59:23 Sgeo: Racket doesn't have a fmap that works on, say, functions? 19:01:17 How many non-Haskell languages do you know provide a generic map that is as generic as Haskell's fmap? 19:01:51 scala prolly 19:01:53 `coins 19:01:55 zeicoin arbokucoin unreacoin thisesocoin haylcoin wakecoin nahcoin @!coin regxcoin limbcoin catemprocoin impcoin bulocoin pouilcoin symespeaseacoin nancoin ver2coin mailcoin fanjcoin treadacoin 19:02:10 nancoin 19:02:42 FreeFull: person tried to derive count based on fmap. When I asked what happens when used on a function, they said that fmap should not be lazy 19:02:49 Racket logs are public 19:03:00 (fmap f c) should call f over every element in c before returning 19:03:01 if it doesn't and calls f later, f may be called in a different dynamic environment 19:03:01 for certain functions this would change the behavior, i.e. one that wrote to standard out 19:03:15 (This is after I attempted to describe fmap) 19:03:44 What's count? 19:03:54 Same as length, but generic? 19:04:05 You can't do that with fmap 19:04:30 should be e.g., not i.e.. that's what's important here 19:04:33 FreeFull: e tried to, by passing fmap a function to imperatively update a variable 19:07:40 `olist 945 19:07:40 olist 945: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily 19:11:49 Oops, I somehow forgot to read 944 entirely 19:22:03 -!- luserdroog has joined. 19:22:13 -!- M1chael has joined. 19:24:19 -!- M1chael has quit (Client Quit). 19:24:41 oklopol_: This is a late response, but I don't know if the standard starting position of chess is optimal or not. You can play with random setups if you like. 19:25:52 I'm half convinced that the whole functor thing is kind of a red herring 19:28:10 lol qntm now has a new comment box that basically tells you the answer for the hint 19:29:30 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 19:29:50 -!- augur has joined. 19:30:11 -!- conehead has joined. 19:41:32 http://www.twitch.tv/twitchplayspokemon 19:42:10 olist, more like whoalist 19:47:31 -!- tromp_ has joined. 19:49:13 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:49:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:49:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 19:54:13 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 19:54:57 shachaf: indeed 19:54:58 oops 19:55:13 http://wikitravel.org/en/Hell_%28Hades%29 20:02:49 -!- password2 has joined. 20:17:26 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 20:19:32 -!- Sellyme has joined. 20:33:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:39:59 zzo38: the SEP article on neutral monism is quite long 20:40:05 i don't quite understand why there are so many things to say about it 20:40:11 i guess this is what philosophers do for a living, though 20:40:20 kmc: Yes, I think so. 20:40:46 That is why, I can understand that philosophy can involve a lot of things to say about something. 20:41:01 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 20:41:01 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 20:41:02 So, there really is many things to say about it, but also many things to think about it, too! 20:41:27 -!- nisstyre has joined. 20:41:28 -!- conehead has joined. 20:41:49 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 20:53:11 -!- augur has joined. 21:02:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:02:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:25:24 `coins 21:25:26 dotercoin shakercoin libergeomcoin polispcoin cobullcoin cusiccoin parnecoin closopcoin aawacoin ballecoin deliticoin sockcoin oftcoin adgoibcoin ylolmcoin toadsknowellocoin foberwmcoin lesscoin gingcoin ycoin 21:25:49 neutralmonismcoin 21:31:20 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: No route to host). 21:35:04 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:48:26 -!- ggherdov has joined. 21:52:08 -!- tswett has joined. 21:55:15 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 21:55:30 ohai pplz 21:55:55 * JWinslow23 programs his calculator 21:56:31 hi JWinslow23 21:56:45 Hi, kmc 21:56:53 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:56:55 Been a while since I've been here last. 21:57:01 What, last year? 21:58:33 Hey JWinslow23. 21:58:46 Hey, tswett. 21:59:29 JWinslow23: grep says you visited briefly on 2014-01-12. 21:59:43 (Before that, 2013-10-30.) 21:59:47 Well, not for an esoteric distussion. 21:59:50 *cussion 22:00:26 For a calculator programming discussion, apparently. 22:00:44 Yeah, to tell you all that I'm going off the grid. 22:00:48 And onto another. 22:00:55 Now, I'm just bored, is all. 22:01:07 So you've joined ##calculators, then. (Disclaimer: channel might not exist.) 22:01:12 Hey, what were the bots we had here, anyway? 22:01:19 No, #omnimaga. 22:01:21 There's fungot. 22:01:21 fizzie: and that's another matter) still have souls! cvs: there is a source file, so that we know about the 22:01:24 http://omnomirc.www.omnimaga.org/ 22:01:58 Fungot? Really? A close-paren without an open one? 22:02:13 fungot is above matching parentheses 22:02:13 shachaf: i.. i ended up with fun round-trips to uucp-land like this on unix: celibacy. what useful protection! how nice to find a way 22:02:19 The Perl version balances punctuation. (For the Funge-98 version, it's still on the TODO list.) 22:02:35 fungot, huh? 22:02:35 JWinslow23: now how did that once and then come here to talk very much like c. 22:02:47 ^prefixes 22:02:47 Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, jconn ) , blsqbot ! 22:03:04 A couple of those aren't present, though. 22:03:09 `quine 22:03:36 I know HackEgo is here; y u no quine? 22:03:39 ​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ ls: cannot access ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 22:03:55 It's having some... issues, related to a server move. 22:04:01 Missing the logs, for one thing. 22:04:28 `define quine `quine 22:04:29 Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ Looking up 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Making HTTP connection to 127.0.0.1:3128 \ Sending HTTP request. \ HTTP request sent; waiting for response. \ Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. \ Can't Access `http://google.com/search?q=define:%71%75%69%6e%65%20%60%71%75%69%6e%65' \ Alert!: Unable to access do 22:04:50 `run paste `which define` 22:04:51 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip//hackenv/bin/define 22:04:55 `type define 22:04:56 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: type: not found 22:05:02 `run type define 22:05:03 define is /hackenv/bin/define 22:05:24 It's the "use Google to define a word" thing, also broken due to the web proxy not being in place. 22:05:30 Oh. 22:05:38 Well, I wanna define a command. 22:06:29 it is unix 22:07:02 You'd probably write a script in bin/x, then. But I'm not sure replacing bin/quine would be necessary, I'm sure the logs will come back some day. 22:07:21 `welcome 22:07:21 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:07:52 `JWinslow23 22:07:52 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: JWinslow23: not found 22:08:14 I think I used to be "someone who doesn't give a BF" at one point. 22:08:51 `bc 22:08:51 `? JWinslow23 22:08:51 That's part of the learndb thing. 22:08:52 JWinslow23 is a Wisconsinite who doesn't give a BF. 22:09:07 `? quine 22:09:08 ​`? quine 22:09:14 Oh. 22:09:21 No output. 22:09:23 That still works. 22:09:37 `uname -a 22:09:37 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 22:09:39 `learn JWinslow23 is not here. 22:09:41 I knew that. 22:09:41 `cat /proc/self/uid_map 22:09:42 cat: /proc/self/uid_map: No such file or directory 22:09:51 `? JWinslow23 22:09:52 JWinslow23 is not here. 22:09:58 Gregor: HEY, PUT USER NAMESPACES ON HackEgo RIGHT THE FUCK IMMEDIATELY thanks 22:10:25 do we need to be yelling 22:10:31 Yes. 22:10:38 The places where 'the fuck' could be used continues to surprise me 22:10:39 YES. 22:10:42 I mean, no. 22:10:50 ALL CAPS IS A VIRTUE. 22:10:57 ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD. 22:11:59 O NOES! 22:12:58 FireFly: well, I guess the fuck it is an expletive. 22:13:20 Of course the fuck, you can't just stick it anywhere. 22:13:25 You f****** said it, ya f*****. 22:13:50 Can you put it before the fuck *any* stressed word? 22:13:52 I mean, you said the f*** it. 22:14:01 Looks the fuck like no. 22:14:03 The f*** YES! 22:14:48 Maybe you can put the fuck it after any verb. Nope. But you the fuck can say "Maybe you can put it the fuck after any verb". 22:15:04 The fuck before any prepositional phrase, perhaps? 22:15:14 http://img.ourl.ca/TwitterGrammarCheck1 22:15:18 Wait, I've seen a blog post about this.. 22:15:19 "I have the ability to go through time, I suddenly remembered while the fuck at a bus stop the fuck near a tree." 22:15:32 I mean: 22:15:33 http://img.ourl.ca/TwitterGrammarCheck1.png 22:16:26 "I wonder what my h*** is?" 22:16:35 ... 22:16:50 Oh right, http://douglemoine.com/english-sentences-without-overt-grammatical-subjects/ 22:16:53 sigh 22:16:54 ...Thanks, @PurpleNewBlack 22:16:54 there it is 22:19:44 Well, gotta go. 22:19:51 See ya! 22:21:38 Evening 22:32:43 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:41:03 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:41:36 https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/important-kickstarter-security-notice he he 22:50:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:55:11 -!- blotter has joined. 23:03:36 My copy of Purely Functional Data Structures arrived :D 23:06:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:20:52 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 23:21:23 -!- Bike has joined. 23:21:29 -!- quintopia has joined. 23:24:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:28:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:31:20 <-- well since an impure language cannot really distinguish between the haskell concepts "fmap" and "traverse in the IO monad", he probably can, in a sense. 23:31:24 oops 23:31:34 * FreeFull: e tried to, by passing fmap a function to imperatively update a variable 23:31:44 gonna traverse the fuck out of this shit 23:32:25 s/ \*/*+/ 23:33:03 helloerjan. did i miss anything good when my server hung? 23:34:00 oerjan: It feels wrong though ): 23:34:14 FreeFull: THAT'S IMPURE LANGUAGES FOR YOU 23:34:24 quintopia: no idea, i just joined 23:34:28 death to the impure 23:36:49 /* this function traverses in the io monad */ 23:36:53 Imagine doing the same in Haskell with unsafePerformIO 23:37:05 You'd have to sequence all the elements of the list though 23:37:14 that's good 23:37:33 obviously nothing interesting happened before you arrived 23:37:41 Which requires a fold anyway 23:38:03 So you'd need a generic Foldable anyway, and by that point a non-pure solution doesn't make sense anyway 23:38:25 /* this is a join for a monoid in the category of endofunctors */ 23:38:34 quintopia: well you're not subscribed to the `olist anyway 23:39:32 true. is that all that happened? 23:39:41 well that's as far as i've got yet 23:40:10 i sense a significant number of further log lines in the scrollbar, though 23:41:07 also why i am i speaking like vaarsuvius 23:41:41 -!- Frooxius has joined. 23:52:25 -!- yorick has joined. 23:54:42 oerjan: you haven't comitted familicide recently, have you? 2014-02-16: 00:03:08 not that i remember. 00:12:47 ?type safePerformIO 00:12:48 Not in scope: `safePerformIO' 00:15:19 ?let safePerformIO :: IO a -> IO a; safePerformIO = id 00:15:21 Defined. 00:19:42 saferPerformIO :: IO a -> IO (IO a) 00:19:49 safestPerformIO :: IO a -> Fix IO 00:20:18 discussing haskell on an esoteric languages channel... seems legit ;-) 00:20:32 unperformIO 00:21:08 Fix IO is a good type 00:21:16 `relcome blotter 00:21:17 ​blotter: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 00:34:23 looks like the drought here will finally end tomorrow 00:34:31 jafet: safePerformIO :: IO a -> IO a; safePerformIO = unsafeCoerce 00:36:14 unsafePerformState :: State s a -> a 00:36:19 genericSafePerformIO :: IO a -> IO b 00:38:27 :t forever 00:38:28 Monad m => m a -> m b 00:40:27 copumpkin: is it good for something, or just good in general? 00:40:35 just good in general! 00:40:45 maybe Free IO is more useful 00:40:47 you should write a library for dealing with it 00:40:53 pfft, that one's boring 00:41:15 ?let kindaSafeIO :: IO (IO a) -> IO a; kindaSafeIO = join 00:41:16 Defined. 00:41:26 forever' :: Fix IO -> IO b 00:42:23 forever? i hardly know'er! 00:42:38 copumpkin: let's go with Cofree IO then 00:42:46 ok :) 00:44:17 Cofree IE IO 00:45:16 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:46:29 Free Coffee 00:51:17 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:54:29 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:55:01 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 00:56:34 Cofree IO would have one response and then the IO action which can continue, to give you another Cofree IO, so you can stop in between each step. 01:04:23 yes 01:05:22 isnt that a continuation? 01:05:38 I think, not quite 01:06:27 Sounds like a generator 01:06:48 Sgeo: Yes, perhaps that is what it is more like. 01:06:49 sounds like a state machine 01:26:56 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:36:51 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:45:11 -!- nooga has joined. 01:58:46 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:06:17 -!- blotter has joined. 02:11:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:18:51 Considering the usage pattern of functors in lens, would it be so terrible to have a container that also contained the fmap function to use on it? 02:25:26 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:27:27 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:30:33 Sgeo: If you implement lenses as a setter and getter, you don't need fmap at all 02:31:15 FreeFull: but then how do I implement prisms, and can I even implement traversals? 02:31:44 That is what I did at first, implement a lens as a setter and getter, although at the time I didn't know any other way and also didn't know it was called a "lens". 02:32:09 Sgeo: Not sure, figure it out 02:36:48 -!- blotter has joined. 02:39:26 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:44:24 well hello oerjan, thanks 02:45:07 does anyone here have any more information on Feather than the wiki provides? 02:46:38 except for ais523 who refuses to talk about it, not much. 02:48:15 there may be something hidden in the logs, unfortunately our bot-based search of them has broken. 02:52:05 -!- CADD has joined. 02:52:28 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest94082. 02:52:43 -!- Guest94082 has quit (Client Quit). 02:53:30 -!- Sorella has joined. 03:01:37 k 03:04:43 FreeFull: I also feel like van Laarhoven lenses can help me avoid making mistakes, like having a lens be a pair of setter+getter instead of modifier+getter 03:05:03 With the former, modify would be in terms of set+get, but I don't want to force the existence of get 03:05:13 So I handled that, but I don't know what else I may be missing 03:07:15 Sgeo: Well, you can always implement set in terms of just modify, so you should go with that 03:07:26 FreeFull: and that's what I did do 03:07:35 But I'm not sure what other pitfalls I have to be careful of 03:07:52 Not sure if there are any data structures for which set would make sense but modify wouldn't 03:08:27 Even if there are some, then modify wouldn't be used except as a "const" function anyways. 03:10:41 I suppose a data structure which doesn't actually store a value would qualify 03:12:09 I want prisms to exist, I think. Not sure if I need traversals 03:12:22 mapped already exists in terms of my getter/modifier pair 03:12:41 So data Phantom a = Phantom 03:15:15 Modify for that would have to use bottom in Haskell, and in a strict language, I don't know what it'd do 03:15:29 FreeFull: um no, modify works perfectly well 03:15:52 it just happens never to call the function to modify with 03:16:46 oerjan: Oh, I suppose that'd work 03:17:00 just like map with an empty list 03:17:36 Yeah, nevermind 03:17:49 I can't think of a data structure for which set is valid but modify isn't 03:18:11 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:27:37 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:27:54 -!- HackEgo has joined. 03:34:34 I should continue attempting to write my struct-lens macro 03:34:48 Even if I change implementations later, the macro would still be useful 03:36:01 The funny thing is, I know how to write modify but not get 03:38:56 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 03:39:17 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:46:02 That data Phantom a = Phantom; just has fmap do nothing, join do nothing... A data of the same structure is also called "Proxy", or "Finalize" (which is what I called it, due to reasons having to do with category theory). 03:46:32 For any final object of any category, there is a corresponding Finalize monad on that category, isn't it? (And, for initial objects, a corresponding Initialize comonad.) 04:05:13 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:08:11 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:09:27 So, Roy's deadly to undead energy thing... what if Durkon is standing too close when the sword is used? 04:12:31 Then maybe he will be dead 04:16:08 `coins 04:16:09 beforecoin impcoin lingarcoin nybernmcoin lllcoin delcoin wherpiloventecoin 0x25666thicaencyklan/mcoin 1lemationecoin rincoin .yacuablencoin etacoin mentinrcoin choncoin condicoin hannencoin quancoin worbeitcoin spoolfebowlcoin kayakcoin 04:16:41 -!- blotter has joined. 04:17:10 lllcoin -- the proof of work is finding a short, nearly orthogonal lattice basis? 04:19:28 How long before the arrival of etacoin 04:21:28 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:29:40 how's that work 04:31:06 eddacoin. proof of work is done in the form of extemporal sagas 04:31:34 https://twitter.com/yesterbits/status/434827571008925696/photo/1/large anyway 04:39:51 -!- douglass_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:49:06 -!- douglass_ has joined. 05:08:57 I guess at least some use cases for non-lens things in Haskell might be unnecessary in Racket, with a bit of imperative magic? 05:09:24 Well, hmm, even if strictly unnecessary, could still be convenient 05:10:20 Would rather have a 'how many items in this collection' lens than need to "modify" the collection with a thing to collect the answer 05:10:28 "lens" 05:10:43 beep boop 05:10:45 `coins 05:10:47 malcoin waitcoin sokovcoin kelxircucoin miccoin fugicoin locktrycoin boilcoin wadcoin beforecoin quoicoin friedcoin selacoin lazepterixcoin versedcoin livingcoin synccoin proriggethisesocoin protatiumbradacronymcoin realcoin 05:12:20 http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/13/tech/innovation/termite-robots-aaas/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5 05:12:29 What's the point of avoiding the centralized blueprint? 05:12:37 i'm sure i've seen beforecoin before 05:13:14 Kentucky Friedcoin 05:13:35 me gives boily one boilcoin 05:13:47 * Sgeo forgot how to /me, apparently 05:13:56 Sgeo, can you tell me why I am awake. 05:14:02 And apparently listening to Bloc Party. 05:14:11 Probably because you're not asleep 05:15:00 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:15:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:15:31 -!- augur has joined. 05:15:34 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:16:25 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:16:31 -!- augur has joined. 05:19:54 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:25:47 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:27:11 How would a hardware programming language be designed for quantum computers? 05:39:32 i am sure that there are already papers on this 05:40:26 i suppose that instead of specifying a block of logical equation "assignments" that happen at once, you would specify any self-adjoint operation on whatever subset of "variables" you like 05:40:55 unitary, not self-adjoint hth 05:41:02 is it 05:41:28 yep 05:43:39 zzo38: it's hard to think about compiling a quantum HDL because nobody quite knows what physical form a quantum computer will take or what its primitive operations will be 05:44:06 sounds like a job for rampant speculation 05:44:27 it's like doing boolean logic but you don't know whether it will synthesize to CMOS gates or pneumatic tubes or DNA linking up 05:44:47 (maybe it is less uncertain now; my understanding is sketchy and may be years out of date) 05:45:24 anyway any universal quantum computer will be able to implement a CNOT gate, and you can compile any quantum circuit to CNOT gates + rotations, but this may not be a natural or efficient way to implement your quantum HDL 05:46:19 are there any dna computer vhdls 05:48:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:53:52 kmc: Yes I would think that you would specify self-adjoint operations, but that still doesn't explain much about how timing, measurements, etc would be specified; well, CNOT gates and rotations can be built-in primitives even if you can define your own things too 05:54:03 * kmc nods 05:54:27 I mean any quantum computer for the forseeable future is going to be kind of a quantum coprocessor to a conventional computer 05:54:46 because a conventional computer costs like $20 and works at room temperature 05:54:55 which makes them better for a lot of things 05:55:39 Yes, but I am trying to think of how to do it with hardware designing, rather than software (already QCL and stuff exists), and to allow to combine quantum with classical in one file 05:56:00 And yes, I too think it is supposed to be unitary rather than self-adjoint, but I am not a real physicist so I don't really know 05:56:16 so probably timing and measurement will be dictated by the classical part 05:56:23 you'll specify a measurement basis in the quantum HDL though 05:56:34 i should really read one of these papers instead of speculating but that sounds less fun 06:04:35 Something quite odd just happened 06:04:45 Apparently the lock on my door does not work 06:07:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: nite). 06:09:15 did you have to bust your way out 06:10:31 No, but someone walked in 06:11:44 while you were in a... compromising position? 06:11:59 No, but she was in her underwear and seemed somewhat confused 06:13:05 I asked her politely to leave 06:13:40 does your door look like a bathroom 06:14:12 In as much as a door with my name on it can 06:14:35 My name is not "Toilet", "Ladies'", "Gents'", or any variation thereof 06:15:17 whiz palace 06:15:42 isn't your name dutch, though 06:15:48 perhaps she couldn't read dutch 06:16:00 SW∃DíSH TJÖILETŜ 06:31:55 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:38:42 -!- oklopol has joined. 06:40:29 -!- password2 has joined. 06:45:41 -!- luserdroog has joined. 06:50:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 07:16:15 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:23:24 break out your busted too-clever postscript code! I wrote a debugger (requires and interpreter, like gs): https://github.com/luser-dr00g/debug.ps 07:32:30 I somehow thought Nazi Temple of Doom would be more exciting... 07:33:54 And how is it I've never heard of Battle Beyond the Stars? Robert Vaughn AND Hannibal from the A-Team??! smokemifygotem 07:38:46 Are the quantum operations supposed to be triggers or what else? That part I don't quite understand. 07:39:02 Although, I do (mostly) understand what the operations are. 07:45:39 I missed the beginning. 07:51:06 I was reading in here http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/rosetta/rose3.pdf that quantum operations are modifiers on the hilbert space. 07:51:34 All I can say is that I know what each of those words means individually. 08:37:21 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:48:47 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:12:48 -!- password2 has joined. 09:43:41 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:45:56 -!- shikhout has joined. 09:48:57 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:48:57 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 09:59:18 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:11:58 -!- CADD has joined. 10:11:58 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 10:51:31 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:03:36 -!- CADD has joined. 11:04:00 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest34605. 11:05:15 -!- password2 has joined. 11:05:28 -!- nooga has joined. 11:07:59 -!- hexagon has joined. 11:08:07 hi 11:08:12 I need to check if a character is equal to another character in BF 11:08:26 -!- CADD__ has joined. 11:08:39 -!- CADD__ has quit (Client Quit). 11:08:40 I found this https://gist.github.com/wjessup/4688874 but I can't figure out how to copy cell 1 to cell 2 without zeroing cell 1 11:08:41 -!- Guest34605 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:11:38 hexagon: you typically need some auxiliary cell. [->+>+<<] duplicates a value. 11:11:58 ah, thanks 11:12:01 you want to copy instead of move? 11:12:21 yeah, because that gist says to have 3 as value of all three cells 11:12:32 (that one duplicates to the next two cells assuming they are initially zero) 11:18:51 ~help bf 11:19:06 `help bf 11:19:06 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 11:23:19 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:38:50 -!- nooga has joined. 11:41:06 Is dealing with multiple values in Scheme supposed to be painful? 11:41:32 I'm thinking of maybe transliterating Traversals into something like 'lens that gets and modifies multiple values', but I have no idea if that's sane 11:42:05 In either the 'this is equivalent to traversals' or 'this will be nice to do in Racket' sense 11:42:53 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:44:26 Oh, the obvious way is call-with-values sending the values to list 11:46:35 There's http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-8/srfi-8.html for making multiple values rather less painful. 11:48:01 I think that's just let-values in Racket 11:48:06 (Which also has define-values) 11:48:26 Which are all perfectly well and good except they assume you know how many values are incoming 11:48:29 I didn't think let-values supports the "rest" syntax thing. 11:48:38 Well, you don't need to know that for receive. 11:48:45 Since it's analogous to lambda argumets. 11:48:45 Oh, you're right, oops 11:49:46 Racket does ship with SRFI-8 11:50:02 But I think I hate let-like forms 11:50:36 #lang s-exp srfi/provider srfi/%3a8 11:50:48 :/ 11:50:48 (let ((l (call-with-values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) list))) ) -> (receive l (values 1 2 3) ), pretty much. 11:51:12 That does not make me more appreciative of let-like forms 11:51:31 I think I'm inclined to worship internal defines 11:53:51 https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/pkgs/srfi-pkgs/srfi-lite-lib/srfi/8/receive.rkt 11:54:05 Doesn't use the reference implementatiion, it defers to let-values 11:54:42 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:56:57 (When it can) 12:00:42 Huh. I don't remember syntax-rules, will (receive (var ...) [...]) match (receive (a b . c) [...])? 12:02:11 It shouldn't, I ... think 12:02:32 Actually, hmm, I can see why that's an interesting question 12:03:12 Maybe I should avoid using body ... for bodies so much? Because ... hmm 12:03:24 The implementation is defective if it does, since (let-values (((a b . c) [...])) [...]) is not allowed. 12:03:29 But maybe it doesn't. 12:03:58 Yeah, the parts only match a proper list. 12:06:01 So yeah, multiple value get returns to emulate traversals... in case the traversal 'gets' just one element, it doesn't need special processing, which fits more closely in a dynamically-typed language than requriing something for that case would 12:06:40 Wait, I can't actually enumerate all of a real traversal's values, can I? 12:06:41 hmm 12:18:50 -!- yorick has joined. 12:21:46 why is this code not returning different values for input "a" and "ab"? 12:21:48 >,>,>[[-]>>[-]+<<]>[[-]>[-]+<]>>[-]+<[>-<]>. 12:21:55 idea taken from http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/558979/BrainFix-the-language-that-translates-to-fluent-Br equality code 12:22:05 I'm using http://mazonka.com/brainf/bfdebug.html, tried ideone too 12:22:19 erm, "aa" and "ab", sorry 12:23:18 hmm, wait 12:23:32 maybe I need more code, I'm actually supposed to already set less and more first 12:23:35 *facepalm* 12:28:31 I'll mess with that later, bbl 12:40:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:46:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:49:40 -!- nooga has joined. 12:50:43 -!- Tritonio has joined. 12:56:23 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:16:41 -!- boily has joined. 13:16:49 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:34:39 -!- password2 has joined. 13:43:54 hexagon: Assuming a zero-initialized tape, your >,>,>[[-]>>[-]+<<]>[[-]>[-]+<]>>[-]+<[>-<]>. reduces to >,>,>>>>+. no matter what the input, as all the [] blocks will be skipped. 13:44:19 (Perhaps that's what your "already set" comment meant.) 13:46:52 Anyway, something like (untested) ,>,[-<->]+<[>-<[-]]>[ code here if two characters were equal ] is the obvious destructive compare-two-characters snippet. 13:47:59 In words, that's "input two characters, subtract second from first; set a flag; if result of subtraction was nonzero (i.e., characters not equal) clear the flag; do something if flag still set". 13:52:53 What are you trying to do? 14:09:18 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:10:49 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:33:48 good yogurt morning! 15:16:06 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 15:38:17 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:49:03 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:50:18 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:54:50 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TILED CHICKEN). 15:54:58 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:01:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:02:15 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:12:57 Are the quantum operations supposed to be triggers or what else? That part I don't quite understand. <-- you can think of them as reversible assignments on the qubits. e.g. a^= b or a+=b is a valid quantum operation if a and b are distinct qubits, as are the operations that rotate the quantum phase of a qubit. 16:16:17 and also an operation might change more than one qubit. 16:24:36 -!- Zerker has joined. 16:35:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:35:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:41:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:46:10 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 16:48:08 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:49:49 -!- tertu3 has joined. 16:49:49 -!- tertu3 has changed nick to tertu. 16:59:21 -!- nooga_ has joined. 17:01:54 oerjan: Yes, I can clearly see that an operation might change more than one qubit 17:01:57 -!- tromp__ has joined. 17:06:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:06:44 But I don't see where such assignments can go other than in triggers, and maybe you might sometimes want to put them elsewhere. 17:07:31 what are triggers? 17:08:14 -!- nooga has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:14 -!- HackEgo has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:15 -!- clog has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:15 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:15 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:15 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 17:08:18 Trigger on a (classical) clock edge. 17:08:53 right, that would seem a plausible way 17:09:54 however the physics are still up in the air. if the qubits were e.g. stored in _moving_ particles, then the assignments might happen when they arrive at some destination. 17:10:25 Consider the syntax for triggers on classical signals in HWPL: TRIGGER vec SET vec TO vec [WHEN bit]; and in Verilog, you use "always@(posedge clk)" instead. Similar thing could be done for quantum registers? 17:10:55 but if they were stored in some silicon-like material, then a system more similar to current VLSI might be more likely. 17:11:10 If the assignments are happening when they arrive, that can work too if you put in the relative (or absolute) delays for them 17:11:46 -!- HackEgo has joined. 17:12:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 17:13:21 How is a system more similar to current VLSI, exactly, in quantum computing? 17:14:08 well in that the quantum gates could be put as physical devices on chips 17:15:37 aaronson has been writing about this more or less toy system called boson sampling, which could be based on light and mirrors. 17:16:01 although that wouldn't seem to be full quantum computing 17:16:34 but it's still of some interest since it might still have some superclassical abilities 17:16:53 and might be simpler to construct than a full quantum computer 17:17:24 i understand that the intended error correction scheme for a quantum computer would make circuits thousands of times larger 17:17:34 *a full quantum computer 17:19:28 If quantum gates are put as physical devices on chips, do they need to be activated or something? Or would it be continuous as a signal passes a gate? (Even in such a case, they would still need to be activated somehow, I think). What if error correction is also explicitly programmed in using hardware programming languages? What about entanglement with external devices (which might be used in cryptography, for example)? 17:19:47 And then there needs to be the way to specify measurement, and several other things like that. 17:20:30 Consider maybe something like this: TRIGGER vec OPERATE matrix ON qureg [WHEN bit]; 17:20:39 Would that be? 17:20:57 i'd imagine they'd _try_ to construct it as close to a "normal" chip as they can, simply for the advantage of being able to use mostly known technology. 17:21:11 (with mass production advantages etc.) 17:21:32 Yes, but I don't know how you would do that. 17:22:03 neither do i! they haven't even decided what's best to make the qubits of yet! 17:25:07 Nevertheless, quantum programming languages exist. 17:25:54 yes. i think they mainly make the assumption that you can combine "pure" gates for unitary matrices mathematically 17:26:53 and don't worry about how that would be implemented physically. 17:31:56 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:32:44 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 17:34:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:44:03 -!- clog has joined. 17:44:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:44:53 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 17:46:00 -!- Shiva has joined. 17:46:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:49:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:52:58 -!- JesseH has joined. 17:54:08 Abacus lang 17:54:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:58:30 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:00:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:06:02 What is a "skierized vehicle"? 18:06:45 Oh, apparently it just means "equipped to transport skis". 18:11:15 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:24:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:26:43 -!- blotter has joined. 18:28:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:30:12 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:34:34 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 18:37:24 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:38:00 -!- nisstyre has quit (Client Quit). 18:39:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:57:44 Florida Man Accidentally Shoots Himself With Stun Gun While Trying to Rob Radio Shack He Also Works At 19:01:59 "He said he needed money to pay for car insurance and his cell phone bill." 19:02:04 That's reasonable. 19:02:31 hi, I'm trying to make a BF program to print input in reverse, but it's only outputting an ASCII NUL: >,[>,][<.] 19:03:01 (yeah, I did realize that < will make it not print the last character, I'll fix that) 19:04:10 ][ is pointless 19:04:13 after a ], the current cell is 0 19:04:18 therefore the following loop is always skipped 19:04:47 Yes, that is true, ][ is useless 19:04:48 oh, of course 19:04:56 (Except possibly to make up a comment) 19:04:59 (spoiler: >,[>,]<[.<]) 19:05:16 :) 19:05:28 ah, thanks! 19:13:13 http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/12/ancient-viking-code-deciphered-runologist-jotunvillur 19:14:34 This has got to be one of the most Viking cities anywhere 19:14:37 Runologist sounds like a fake word 19:15:36 "writing his doctorate on cryptography in runic inscriptions from the Viking Age and the Scandinavian Middle Ages" wow 19:16:15 that guy is so fucked on the job market 19:17:11 maybe he is going to stay on academia? 19:17:43 "maybe" 19:18:10 I tried 19:18:14 didn't work out so well 19:18:21 well, he could probably get a pretty good book deal out of this 19:18:30 tried to get a book deal? 19:18:37 -!- Shiva has quit (Quit: Quitte). 19:19:24 I am trying to write a physics book 19:19:31 But I doubt it will sell well! 19:19:34 Or even get written 19:19:54 you should have tried something more popular, like vikings, or SMS. 19:22:01 what kind of physics 19:22:35 Theoretical 19:22:45 I have plenty of physics book ideas 19:22:53 One of them is called "What the fuck is spin" 19:22:57 Because seriously 19:23:03 That is a book I would have liked to have 19:23:13 Most books do not explain it well at all 19:30:04 -!- password2 has joined. 19:41:13 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:45:43 -!- conehead has joined. 20:00:03 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:00:30 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:01:55 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:02:53 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:05:17 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:17:31 I figured out, not only BULBASAUR [Lv15] wins against MEWTWO [Lv53], but WEEDLE [Lv15] does too. As far as I can tell, any other card isn't guaranteed to win. 20:22:50 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:23:41 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 20:25:32 -!- password2 has joined. 20:28:22 -!- fungot has joined. 20:28:29 ^show rev 20:28:29 >,[>,]<[.<] 20:33:14 Slereah__: writing popular physics books? good 20:35:27 Who said anything about popular 20:36:44 `coins 20:36:46 cteditierdneywaterwcoin trackecoin anyplecoin latliscoin punivatumcoin bytecoin muzcoin xigxcoin geslecoin mismcoin novischesnacecoin smncoin threakcoin exeranccoin gcocoin nusaitzcoin galentincoin dzintycoin sationcoin preficoin 20:37:21 cnidariacoin 20:38:15 bytecoin 20:38:53 gelatincoin 20:39:25 gelatocoin 20:39:43 dogecoin is the only coin 20:39:53 Slereah__: what the fuck is spin, anyway? 20:40:43 kmc : Buy my book and you will knooow 20:40:48 But anyway 20:41:01 Spin is neither a relativistic concept nor a quantum one at its core 20:41:51 It's one of the two conserved current associated with rotation 20:41:59 The other being the angular momentum 20:43:05 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:55:09 okay 20:55:17 how do i know how much spin something has 20:55:22 elementary particles have a fixed amount right? 20:56:29 does anybody here knows any way of interpreting haskell on android? 20:57:15 The spin is linked with what kind of field you have 20:57:27 Like if it's a scalar field or a vector field or something else 20:58:57 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1y1g7l/i_have_a_bitcoinfession_and_a_plea_dont_gamble/cfgjhos welp 21:01:19 i have a dogecoinfession 21:05:32 `coin 21:05:32 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coin: not found 21:05:35 `coins 21:05:36 poincoin scomesocoin regiccoin direcoin evercoin anycoin hamcoin jugcoin zetanticoin eflcoin p1eqcoin incoirscrancoin singbramcoin stanchiesends.jscoin hungercoin shelpcoin gativecoin bamcoin beicoin golcoin 21:05:37 XD 21:05:57 pikhqoin 21:06:57 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 21:08:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 21:14:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:44:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:45:09 ah! everycoin and anycoin, those complement each other 21:45:30 hungercoin sounds funny 21:45:39 yeah, hungercoin is probably some charity thing 21:45:49 gativecoin is nice 21:46:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:46:57 `coins 21:46:59 jugarcoin limismetalcoin encecoin sudstrudecoin comcoin strcoin cpticoin fryincoin sqaalcoin finiscrispcoin codpignycoin stepmancoin sigcoin homerlicoin villcoin bffordcoin wakcoin poordcoin bowshogicoin graydorcoin 21:47:20 how does this even produce that names? 21:47:37 `cat bin/coins 21:47:38 words --eng-1M --esolangs ${1-20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 21:51:40 increasingly annoyed at the people who show up in ##crypto to plug altcoins and associated scams 21:52:24 Slereah__: ok I think I understand what a scalar vs. vector field is, but how does it relate to spin? 21:55:33 poordcoin sounds nice 21:56:06 `coins --esperanto 21:56:07 Unknown option: esperanto 21:56:45 `coins --finnish 21:56:47 smailcoin 21:56:47 Slereah__: i'm talking with douglass_ about spin and she agrees that "What The Fuck Is Spin?" would be a good book 21:57:22 `coins --german-medical 5 21:57:24 okincoin jugcoin limpeffektivemmundcoin mancoin brascoin 21:57:55 `coins --finnish 10 21:57:56 longcoin ulkemastelectacoin paiseporuvcoin suvrejutetecoin excelatlacoin oovemcoin sharjcoin worbcoin kostepcoin raincoin 21:58:15 longcoin is long 22:04:39 Slereah__: ok I think I understand what a scalar vs. vector field is, but how does it relate to spin? < If you use Noether's theorem 22:04:48 which relates symmetries with conserved quantities 22:04:52 And use the rotation symmetry 22:05:02 You will find out that there's always two terms 22:05:11 There's the angular momentum 22:05:16 And then there's the spin density 22:05:22 (Or just spin, in quantum mechanics) 22:05:54 That quantity depends on the representation of the field$ 22:06:50 Because the rotation group acts differently depending on what kind of field you have 22:07:01 is it open season for physics questions 22:07:33 And you can find that phenomenon even in classical physics 22:07:53 For instance, the total angular momentum of light will depend on its polarization 22:08:02 Which is equivalent to the state of the spin in QM 22:08:46 kmc: did you see darkcoin, which uses eleven hash algorithms for security 22:09:12 kmc: #opencl has a shitload of mining people which is especially silly given it's not economical outside of asics, depressing :/ 22:09:35 Bike: bitcoin mining isn't, but maybe they're mining scrypt coins or others? 22:09:46 sometimes 22:09:50 also did you see http://www.h11e.com/ 22:10:07 Slereah__: ok 22:10:16 i gotta get writing my science code so i can feel opencl ain't pointless 22:10:34 "good reason for development" 22:11:16 imo write a WebGL litecoin miner and out-do http://tidbit.co.in/ (hopefully without the "getting subpoenaed" part) 22:11:36 Slereah__: how do dihydrogen cations involve lambert w 22:13:00 I don't have a clue! 22:13:06 I don't do chemistry 22:13:21 it's quantum chemistry! schrodinger equation and shit! 22:14:11 Still chemistryyyy 22:14:44 "The first successful quantum mechanical treatment of H2+ was published by the Danish physicist Øyvind Burrau in 1927," 22:14:50 physicist!! 22:15:57 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2272#comic 22:16:20 only one electron though. 22:20:42 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:24:56 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 22:24:56 -!- ter2 has joined. 22:34:00 Bike: H2+? Is that just a proton? 22:34:11 two protons and an electron. 22:34:48 Ah 22:34:56 That makes sense 22:35:10 So would a proton be H+2 or H++? 22:35:16 Actually, no 22:35:19 Only one positive charge 22:35:20 H+ 22:35:20 So H+ 22:35:37 And alpha would be He+2? 22:35:43 Alpha? 22:35:44 Or He++? 22:35:50 As in, helium-4 nucleus 22:35:57 Alpha particle 22:36:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUW00Y5x1tM&feature=kp 22:36:21 i don't think that's an ion, so it'd just be 4He 22:36:29 Bike: It is, no electrons 22:36:40 Don't tell me you've never heard of alpha radiation =P 22:36:46 4He2+ then. 22:36:56 god this looks shitty without superscripting 22:37:03 ⁴He²⁺ 22:37:19 Ah, I see 22:37:49 That's why I was confused about H2+ 22:38:03 ^foo bar _baz ^bak means a molecule with total charge bak, made of baz bar-foo atoms 22:38:22 Since it's not clear the 2 is meant to be paired with the H and not the +, although it doesn't make sense to have 2+ charge unless there is a positron or something 22:38:53 if you're dealing with positrons you're not doing normal chemistry, which is probably for the best 22:39:33 Unless you're dealing with the chemistry of beta plus decay 22:39:42 Although the positron itself won't be significant 22:39:43 nukes? pffha 22:45:09 -!- augur has joined. 22:48:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:53:26 ^show rev 22:53:26 >,[>,]<[.<] 22:53:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:53:53 (spoiler: >,[>,]<[.<]) <-- OKAY 22:54:15 I invented it independently! 22:54:20 can it be done any shorter? 22:54:23 IF YOU SAY SO 22:54:27 you could do ,[>,]<[.<] if not for the left underflow 22:54:29 (i guess i believe you) 22:54:41 ,[>,][<[.<]] 22:54:56 that's longer though :< 22:54:58 oh 22:55:00 and dumb and stupid. 22:55:05 that too. 22:57:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:14:47 does anybody here knows any way of interpreting haskell on android? <-- my impression from recent release notes is that ghc is gradually getting more support for ARM but android isn't yet working... 23:15:43 and reddit posts, probably 23:39:19 -!- blotter has joined. 2014-02-17: 00:01:04 -!- CADD has joined. 00:01:06 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 00:03:56 Even if I can represent most interesing things with getter+modifier, it may actually be _easier_ for end-users to define a van Laarhoven style lens 00:03:58 :/ 00:05:53 oerjan: elliott: i brute-force checked all brainfuck programs of length <= 10, and only two of them reverse input: ,[<,]>[.>] and ,[>,]<[.<] 00:06:06 what a sensible thing to do 00:06:21 nooodl: wait, really? 00:06:26 did you actually do that 00:06:39 that first one is invalid if you disallow left tape underflow 00:06:41 which is fairly standard 00:06:50 oh, both of them are wrong in that case 00:08:28 ignoring + and - you get only about 73 million programs, which isn't really a lot! and many of those are invalid (i.e. mismatched []) 00:09:35 here's my completely awful thing http://sprunge.us/jSJA 00:11:21 nooodl: + and - could be used 00:11:25 for loop conditiony stuff 00:11:36 this is kinda fun. here's a bunch of echo programs http://sprunge.us/bjVe 00:12:18 does it check things in parallel? 00:12:39 nope it's really inefficient 00:13:00 I guess + and - would blow it up too much 00:14:57 nooodl: you could also filter out programs containing NOPs (><, <>, -+, +-) 00:15:10 since an equivalent shorter program would already have been tried 00:15:32 the solution is obvious, just run esotope on every input program to remove duplicates 00:16:19 :D 00:16:41 actually that could even be viable 00:16:42 if you reuse the IR 00:23:01 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:27:25 here's all possible outputs for 5-character brainfuck programs http://sprunge.us/eXIL 00:28:20 wait this can't possibly handle things like ,[.,] or ,[.-] 00:34:18 nooodl: Maybe that's all the possible finite outputs 00:34:47 Although ,[.-] would be finite 00:34:49 ,[.-] is finite 00:34:49 yeah 00:39:42 Except on EOF = -1 bignum implementations. :D 00:42:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:44:51 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:48:40 nooodello 00:53:56 bellotter 00:54:56 * oerjan might point out that mangling people's nicks probably doesn't nickping them, hth hth 00:55:10 ...what just happened 00:55:24 test 00:55:31 * oerjan tests hth 00:55:32 `coins 00:55:33 flabillcoin sbtealpediumcoin andcoin cumcoin benerancecoin irculuscoin easedcoin xbtizedcoin skacoin alcacoin migolcoin unfustiglcoin zwissercoin rumcoin noobcoin philosoecoin thorecoin btfcoin inverundcoin 92.12coin 00:55:41 elliott: i sense a bug hth 00:55:58 cumcoin 00:56:00 skacoin 00:56:13 There are unsafeCoerces in lens apparently :/ 00:56:29 i think shachaf knows all about that 00:56:57 Sgeo: there are plans to change those to the new (safe) coerce eventually 00:57:02 there is so much unsafe coercing in Servo :/ 00:57:08 oerjan: what's the safe coerce 00:57:29 kmc: the one that has typeclass restriction to check that the types actually can be coerced 00:57:36 ok 00:57:49 what are examples of pairs of types that "actually can be coerced" 00:58:23 I want to quote what someone said to me in #haskell-lens, but it's not publically logged as far as I can tell 00:58:24 any newtype wrapping (with constructor visible), things that only differ in phantom types 00:58:45 helloerjan. i don't want to ping people. i want to test if they are paying attention. 00:58:55 and "parametric" type constructors applied to those 00:59:00 pinging people who are busy would be bothersome 00:59:19 (using the new role system) 00:59:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:00:50 oerjan: any progress on TCness of RePairate-2? you know you want to know for sure. 01:01:25 -!- blotter has joined. 01:02:16 quintopia: oh, i sort of put that away after you started mumbling about _exactly_ 2 01:02:27 because i have no idea how to do _that_ 01:03:09 but yes, i have a design sketch that i think should work for <= 2 01:03:41 (in my head, mostly) 01:04:32 oerjan: well i want to see that. obviously, the exactly 2 thing would be super-cool, but I recognize it is a very difficult problem. m in {0,2} would be good enough for now. 01:04:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:08:00 oerjan: i don't think that's necessary 01:08:07 in fact i've been 01:08:13 mostly arguing against the new coerce 01:08:18 shachaf: oh? 01:08:27 but only in places like irc that spj doesn't see, so it's not relevant one way or the other 01:08:40 well, ok, i have nothing against this safe coerce thing, it just isn't really relevant to lens 01:08:54 what is relevant to lens is a 5-line patch spj implemented over a year ago 01:09:02 oh? 01:09:13 https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7542 01:09:27 ok, 10 line patch 01:10:15 The issue is that (foo . NewtypeConstructor) turns into (foo . id) post-denewtypification, and (foo . id) is (\x -> foo x), which isn't the same as foo 01:10:44 why isn't it again 01:10:53 But that patch makes it so that strict composition is enough, because foo `seq` (\x -> foo x) should be equal to foo. 01:10:59 Bike: seq can distinguish them. 01:11:07 > (undefined :: Int -> Int) `seq` () 01:11:10 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 01:11:11 oh foo can be bottom you mean 01:11:12 > ((\x -> undefined x) :: Int -> Int) `seq` () 01:11:13 () 01:11:14 Yes. 01:11:17 yeah makes sense 01:12:07 So to show what the Core would look like if GHC did it correctly, I introduced composition operators that aren't composition at all but are actually unsafeCoerce. 01:12:20 And edwardk said "that's a good idea, let's put it in". 01:12:53 But anyway the point is that the whole thing can be fixed with the strict composition thing in GHC HEAD. 01:13:35 However, partly as a result of this bug I filed, SPJ wrote https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/NewtypeWrappers 01:13:41 "See #7542 for a real life example." 01:14:12 This newtype wrappers mechanism, and the various other things proposed to solve this issue, are far more complicated than the thing that actually fixes it. 01:14:50 whoa, there was discussion on that ticket 6 days ago 01:15:47 Maybe it's not quite that simple. 01:16:49 But I'm still wholeheartedly on the side of fixing this via a compiler optimization of strict composition rather than all this complicated coercion business. 01:18:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:45:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:46:35 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:49:03 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:54:05 -!- blotter has joined. 01:54:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:00:15 -!- augur has joined. 02:06:38 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:07:38 `unidecode .. 02:07:38 ​[U+002E FULL STOP] [U+002E FULL STOP] 02:08:43 weird why does the wiki mark it as changed. 02:50:17 oerjan, is HackEgo yours? 02:50:34 `author 02:50:35 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: author: not found 02:50:40 lol 02:50:55 no it's Gregor's 02:55:41 Does the name cartesian-compose make sense for a function that composes functions, but, when one function in the chain returns multiple values, it maps the rest of the composition onto it, rather, than, say, providing the results as multiple arguments? 02:56:02 Still not sure if I can just use this cartesian-compose, or if I need to change what a getter can do 02:56:06 `test 02:56:07 No output. 02:57:01 `test xa 02:57:01 No output. 02:57:28 `say xa 02:57:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: say: not found 02:59:44 `dmesg 02:59:44 Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset \ Initializing cgroup subsys cpu \ Initializing cgroup subsys cpuacct \ Linux version 3.13.0-umlbox (hackbot@codu) (gcc version 4.7.2 (Debian 4.7.2-5) ) #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 \ On node 0 totalpages: 73344 \ free_area_init_node: node 0, pgdat 60318390, node_mem_map 62c3a000 \ Normal zone: 1003 pages used 02:59:47 aha 02:59:53 `echo hi 02:59:54 hi 03:00:02 `halt -p 03:00:02 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: halt: not found 03:00:04 lol 03:00:27 `wget 03:00:28 wget: missing URL \ Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]... \ Try `wget --help' for more options. 03:01:07 `whoami 03:01:08 whoami: cannot find name for user ID 5000 03:01:21 `cat /etc/passwd 03:01:21 cat: /etc/passwd: No such file or directory 03:01:32 `pwd 03:01:33 ​/hackenv 03:01:36 `help 03:01:36 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 03:01:45 `? help 03:01:46 help? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 03:01:48 oh well. 03:01:53 lol 03:01:58 `ls . 03:01:58 98076 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ Test.o \ tmp \ UNPA \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 03:02:06 `ls / 03:02:06 bin \ dev \ etc \ hackenv \ home \ lib \ lib64 \ opt \ proc \ sbin \ sys \ tmp \ usr 03:02:15 `ls /etc 03:02:16 alternatives \ java-6-openjdk 03:02:40 `rm 03:02:41 rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 03:02:47 oh well, when all else fails... 03:02:47 `du -sm ./:-D 03:02:48 du: invalid option -- ' ' \ du: invalid option -- '.' \ du: invalid option -- '/' \ du: invalid option -- ':' \ du: invalid option -- '-' \ Try `du --help' for more information. 03:02:53 `rm -rf / 03:02:53 rm: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `rm --help' for more information. 03:03:04 `rm --help 03:03:04 Usage: rm [OPTION]... FILE... \ Remove (unlink) the FILE(s). \ \ -f, --force ignore nonexistent files, never prompt \ -i prompt before every removal \ -I prompt once before removing more than three files, or \ when removing recursively. Less intrusive than -i, \ 03:03:20 `env 03:03:20 TERM=linux \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ PATH=/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ PWD=/hackenv \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ SHLVL=0 \ HOME=/tmp 03:03:34 `ps -aux 03:03:35 warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? \ See http://gitorious.org/procps/procps/blobs/master/Documentation/FAQ \ USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 03:03 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 03:03 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0 03:03:52 did you expect a sensible display 03:04:08 say what? 03:04:17 `python -c "print 1" 03:04:17 ​ File "", line 1 \ "print 1" \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent 03:04:52 `find . -type f 03:04:53 find: `. -type f': No such file or directory 03:05:01 `tee ./a 03:05:07 `ps 03:05:14 `echo hi 03:05:19 lol, i think it worked 03:06:02 No output. 03:06:03 ​ PID TTY TIME CMD \ 286 ? 00:00:00 init \ 288 ? 00:00:00 sh \ 290 ? 00:00:00 ps \ 291 ? 00:00:00 cat 03:06:04 hi 03:06:10 ah, time out 03:06:31 Gregor, you should add blotter: what 03:07:05 the reason HackEgo wasnt responding for a while is b/c tee was blocking on stdin 03:07:17 if the exec cmd is followed by it'll nullify the stdin, preventing anything from blocking on it 03:07:43 hm 03:07:46 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:08:45 `ls /sbin 03:08:46 agetty \ badblocks \ blkid \ blockdev \ cfdisk \ ctrlaltdel \ debugfs \ depmod \ dhclient \ dhclient-script \ dmsetup \ dumpe2fs \ e2fsck \ e2image \ e2label \ e2undo \ fdisk \ findfs \ fsck \ fsck.cramfs \ fsck.ext2 \ fsck.ext3 \ fsck.ext4 \ fsck.ext4dev \ fsck.minix \ fsck.nfs \ fsfreeze \ fstab-decode \ fstrim \ getty \ halt \ hwclock \ ifconfig 03:09:04 `ls /dev 03:09:05 agpgart \ audio \ audio1 \ audio2 \ audio3 \ audioctl \ console \ core \ dsp \ dsp1 \ dsp2 \ dsp3 \ fd \ full \ kmem \ loop0 \ loop1 \ loop2 \ loop3 \ loop4 \ loop5 \ loop6 \ loop7 \ mem \ midi0 \ midi00 \ midi01 \ midi02 \ midi03 \ midi1 \ midi2 \ midi3 \ mixer \ mixer1 \ mixer2 \ mixer3 \ mpu401data \ mpu401stat \ null \ port \ ptmx \ pts \ ram \ 03:09:18 `cat /dev/dsp 03:09:19 cat: /dev/dsp: Permission denied 03:09:24 oh shit were being hackd 03:09:30 lol, no 03:09:49 wait, why the hell does it have midi and dsp out 03:10:04 Gregor have you been djing behind our backs 03:10:34 `cat - 03:10:58 `sh -e "echo hi" 03:10:59 sh: 0: Illegal option - 03:11:04 hm that does seem to block stuff 03:11:05 No output. 03:11:17 an ejoyable dos 03:11:19 `run echo hi 03:11:19 `sh -c "echo hi" 03:11:19 hi 03:11:20 sh: 0: Illegal option - 03:11:52 ` doesn't actually run the command with shell expansion and stuff, you need to use `run 03:12:18 also someone defined `` as an abbreviation of that 03:12:42 oh ok 03:13:21 `run echo hi | tr h H 03:13:22 Hi 03:13:36 Bike: Gregor sometimes composes music 03:13:44 `run cat /dev/null | tr '\0' '#' 03:13:45 No output. 03:14:07 damn, no /dev/zero 03:14:10 `ls /dev/zero 03:14:11 ​/dev/zero 03:14:13 oh 03:14:18 `run cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' '#' 03:14:19 ​########################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################################### 03:15:27 `run cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' a | sed 's/aa/ab/' | tr b '\n' 03:15:30 No output. 03:15:40 `run cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' a | sed 's/aa/ab/g' | tr b '\n' 03:15:43 No output. 03:16:00 `run cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' a | sed 's/aa/ab/g' | tr b 'c' 03:16:03 No output. 03:16:17 stop misbehaving HackEgo :-( 03:16:38 `run cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' '\n' 03:16:38 No output. 03:16:54 blotter: HackEgo strips trailing newlines 03:17:08 yeah i see :-( 03:18:25 and also has some buffering problems with long lines 03:18:47 or hm 03:19:48 i'm not entirely sure why you're getting no input on all of those 03:20:17 oh maybe it's sed which cannot handle it 03:20:34 it never gets to the end of the line to print out the result 03:20:42 ``cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' a | sed 's/aa/ab/' 03:20:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found 03:20:48 `` cat /dev/zero | tr '\0' a | sed 's/aa/ab/' 03:20:52 No output. 03:21:05 `run cat bin/\` 03:21:06 exec bash -c "$1" 03:25:15 `ls /hackenv/src/buttsnack 03:25:16 ls: cannot access /hackenv/src/buttsnack: No such file or directory 03:25:26 `ls /hackenv/bin/buttsnack 03:25:26 ​/hackenv/bin/buttsnack 03:25:28 lol 03:30:20 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Tasnout. 03:30:53 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:35:19 * oerjan is guessing Tasnout met a dane 03:36:19 kmc: your safe-globals package seems a bit dead on a modern GHC 03:36:59 hm wait that's wrong, it's spelled næb 03:37:22 `coins 03:37:24 repocoin oxycoin .yachcoin sartcoin pooncoin sciacoin shooncoin tre-calcoin palcoin strecoin halietzellcoin hydrainecoin trideadfteloppensigcoin kimlcoin counterncoin strelcoin bolitershacoin procoin niggerecoin lnussintecoin 03:37:45 Can C/shellscripts polyglot be made? 03:38:27 Perhaps you can if the first line is #define 03:41:06 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:41:42 haskell-lens isn't answering my lens question :( 03:51:23 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:52:08 Sgeo: have you managed to confuse them or is there nobody awake 03:52:27 I'm hoping it's just that no-one's awake 03:52:44 Either that or I didn't explain my question well, I don't think it's an inherently confusing question 03:52:55 Suppose I have a.both.b 03:52:55 Will either a or b have the ability to look at or manipulate both values, or only each value one at a time? 03:53:31 :t both 03:53:32 Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> (a, a) -> f (b, b) 03:53:54 hm 03:54:32 -!- Tasnout has changed nick to Taneb. 03:54:46 OK, I managed to write a C/shellscripts polyglot. 03:55:48 :t (a :: Lens' Int (Bool, Bool) . both . (b :: Lens' Bool Char) 03:55:49 Illegal symbol '.' in type 03:55:50 Perhaps you intended -XRankNTypes or similar flag 03:55:50 to enable explicit-forall syntax: forall . 03:56:04 :( 03:56:14 :t (a :: ALens' Int (Bool, Bool) . both . (b :: ALens' Bool Char) 03:56:14 Illegal symbol '.' in type 03:56:15 Perhaps you intended -XRankNTypes or similar flag 03:56:15 to enable explicit-forall syntax: forall . 03:56:20 :( :( 03:56:24 Missing parens 03:56:31 :t (a :: Lens' Int (Bool, Bool)) . both . (b :: Lens' Bool Char) 03:56:33 Couldn't match expected type `((Bool, Bool) -> f (Bool, Bool)) 03:56:33 :t (a :: ALens' Int (Bool, Bool)) . both . (b :: ALens' Bool Char) 03:56:33 -> Int -> f Int' 03:56:33 with actual type `Expr' 03:56:34 Couldn't match type `Expr' 03:56:34 with `((Bool, Bool) 03:56:35 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Context.Pretext 03:56:39 fuck ur type 03:56:57 I blame lambdabot 03:57:10 :t (afucklambdabot :: Lens' Int (Bool, Bool)) . both . (bfucklambdabot :: Lens' Bool Char) 03:57:11 Not in scope: `afucklambdabot' 03:57:11 Not in scope: `bfucklambdabot' 03:57:30 :t (undefined :: Lens' Int (Bool, Bool)) . both . (undefined :: Lens' Bool Char) 03:57:31 Applicative f => (Char -> f Char) -> Int -> f Int 03:57:34 zzo38: is it a QUINE 03:57:38 :( 03:57:42 :) 03:57:52 quintopia: No, it isn't. It doesn't even do the same thing in C as shellscripts. 03:57:57 I have no idea how to translate that into a lambda 03:58:15 and by "lambda", I mean "answer to my question" 03:58:28 Concepts right next to each other, or something 03:58:36 b can only look at one value at a time 03:58:41 As far as b knows, there is only one value 03:58:43 zzo38: make one that's a QUINE IN BOTH 03:58:50 a deals with two values. 03:59:02 quintopia: Maybe another time; this time I don't have such an intention. 03:59:03 Taneb: but not because of both, I'm guessing, but because it actually sees the pair? 03:59:11 i bet if it's possible to make a quine in both, then someone already has. 03:59:21 oerjan: Yes, probably. 03:59:28 Sgeo, yes 03:59:43 The first line is #define echo echo1( and then #define echo1(x) 04:00:13 Taneb: btw the trick to get types that way is to use implicit variables 04:00:19 And then the actual shell scripts (terminated by exit), and thenn it undefines those two macros. 04:00:52 :t (?a :: Lens' Int (Bool, Bool)) . both . (?b :: Lens' Bool Char) 04:00:53 Could not deduce (?a::((Bool, Bool) -> f1 (Bool, Bool)) 04:00:53 -> Int -> f1 Int) 04:00:53 arising from a use of implicit parameter `?a' 04:01:01 What it does is echo >/dev/null and then runs gcc. 04:01:07 well, it should have been. 04:01:21 zzo38: does it compile itself? 04:01:25 quintopia: Yes. 04:01:31 Great, so... all I need to do to be confident in my representation being satisfactory (once I start using cartesian-compose) is ... understand prisms 04:01:43 hm maybe those have trouble with rank-N 04:01:45 oerjan, I thought I used ImplicitParams. I blame the fact that it's 4 am 04:01:59 Hmm, worse comes to worst, I could have prism be a subtype of lens, I think 04:02:42 Since my representation will support traversals just fine, it's just prisms may (or may not) be more than a traversal... just a traversal reversible into a getter... somehiw 04:03:07 Also need to understand folds, but I think those are just getters? 04:04:16 Sgeo: prisms and lenses are not contained in each other either way 04:04:36 What I'm calling a 'lens' is more fiexible than a lens 04:04:43 I don't know if anyone else has written C/shellscripts polyglots at all; do you know of any such things? 04:04:43 flexible 04:05:42 please don't call it a lens thne 04:05:43 *then 04:06:25 :/ what should I call it 04:06:45 a generalized lens 04:06:51 i love general 04:07:01 zzo38: I wrote a C / shell / python / haskell / brainfuck / DOS .COM file polyglot 04:07:28 zzo38: such a program won the 1986 IOCCC 04:07:30 http://www.spinellis.gr/blog/20100112/ 04:07:39 C/shell is pretty easy because of #if 0 and because shell doesn't do static syntax checking 04:07:56 kmc: Yes, #if 0 or whatever 04:07:57 kmc: what did it do 04:08:09 quintopia: prints "Hello, $lang!" for each lang 04:08:32 kmc: needs more brainfuck 04:09:03 kmc: make the brainfuck part a quine 04:09:05 :P 04:09:07 it starts with a blank line 04:09:09 that's kind of annoying 04:09:12 it seems the polymath project to reduce the size of the known minimal gap between primes has got down to 270 04:09:37 oerjan: maximal gap? 04:10:32 well it's a little confusing 04:10:55 it's "for all N there exist primes >= N closer than this gap" 04:11:06 *+ distinct 04:12:01 closer or equally close 04:12:51 I have seen another one to check what programming language it is; but it was different, and also included both Plain TeX and LaTeX. 04:13:18 http://michaelnielsen.org/polymath1/index.php?title=Bounded_gaps_between_primes 04:24:22 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 04:26:46 My "lenses" might not match up with Haskell lenses, but they're still a pair of getter+modifier 04:29:18 -!- password2 has joined. 04:33:25 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:41:24 Am I a bad person for using λ in my source files? 04:43:44 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 04:45:23 Doesn't seem like sleep is happening 04:48:17 I strongly recommend ensuring that it happens at some point, otherwise it could happen forever 04:48:36 hmm, that doesn't... quite mean what I intended it to 04:52:32 -!- CADD has joined. 04:52:32 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 05:07:53 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:09:25 :t both 05:09:26 Applicative f => (a -> f b) -> (a, a) -> f (b, b) 05:09:29 :t neither 05:09:30 Not in scope: `neither' 05:09:30 Perhaps you meant `either' (imported from Data.Either) 05:09:43 :t either 05:09:44 (a -> c) -> (b -> c) -> Either a b -> c 05:09:58 not very related 05:10:29 yeah i see 05:10:50 this channel is a botfest ^_^ 05:11:20 `coins 05:11:21 smuragrapcoin qualcoin optincoin chintcoin pointcoin gregxcoin cvocoin immicoin bluelcoin redcoin minisetercoin padabccoin alnecoin hq9+coin boationcoin preputecoin cobcoin zeicoin miindeltorcoin stucoin 05:11:42 hq9+coin 05:11:56 imo cocoin 05:12:36 Qualcoin, mined by chinese factory workers 05:12:45 :t ignored 05:12:46 Applicative f => pafb -> s -> f s 05:13:21 i think that may be the thing that corresponds most to "neither" in the sense that matches with "both" 05:13:56 Sure. Or "none" in the sense that matches with "each". 05:14:46 ^celebrate 05:14:47 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 05:14:47 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 05:14:47 >\ c.c |\ >\| | |\ c.c /'\ | >\| |\ c.c /| 05:14:48 (_|¯`\ /´\ 05:14:48 |_) (_| |_) 05:14:57 -!- jix_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:15:02 blotter: botfest you said? 05:15:08 `coins 05:15:09 unbaccoin cogscoin yeartraccoin xnigmentacoin turdocicoin uustencoin hungcoin cronkeymacoin iluriencoin alcodaycoin zombcoin fulcoin noilogcoin theolanguinncoin opmecoin rydcoin vingintercoin matcoin ruberiggcoin cancoin 05:15:34 -!- jix has joined. 05:15:50 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 05:17:36 World of Padman seems to have generally 0 players online 05:17:37 :( 05:20:34 :t united -- here's the other one i was trying to find 05:20:36 Functor f => (() -> f ()) -> a -> f a 05:20:52 united :: Lens' a () 05:22:33 the following three exist: Lens' s (); Lens' Void a; Prism' s Void 05:22:43 but Prism' () a doesn't 05:23:10 shocking 05:24:07 How important are the prism-specific features of prisms? 05:24:31 how important are the ocean-specific features of oceans? 05:25:36 oerjan: hm, that seems more reasonable to me now than it did back then 05:32:54 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:37:05 -!- blotter has joined. 05:47:34 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:51:11 -!- luserdroog has joined. 06:03:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Fnord!). 06:25:22 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:25:45 -!- tromp has joined. 06:34:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:35:08 SQLite now added recursive queries now. There is an example SQL program that solves sudoku puzzle, given. 06:35:58 -!- trout has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:38:46 The WITH clause look like a really good feature. 06:45:50 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:45:59 -!- blotter_ has joined. 06:49:16 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:10:42 zzo38: show me? 07:10:54 CTEs? 07:10:57 recursive? 07:14:58 how was I not already following ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21 on twitter??? 07:15:21 kmc: http://www.sqlite.org/lang_with.html 07:15:28 i, what 07:16:01 that's uh... C++ standards? 07:16:05 yes 07:16:25 zzo38: I like the Mandelbrot set renderer as well :D 07:29:46 zzo38: inductive data types in Inform? https://twitter.com/chrisamaphone/status/435247774712344577 07:33:52 He needs to specify whether he means Inform6 or Inform7, which are two different programming languages. I don't know much of either. 07:36:19 I think a problem with WebGL is that everyone ends up making their own control scheme, there's no consistency 07:36:36 Which may be good for some games, but generic places to explore, some consistency might be useful 07:37:10 zzo38: she 07:37:21 (I think) 07:37:24 and a followup tweet says i7 07:37:35 zzo38: oh, I thought you knew a lot about inform 07:41:49 so do the recursive WITH clauses make SQLite into a logic programming language 07:41:53 or some other kind of thing 07:50:58 kmc: I don't know, but it allows loops and recursion without triggers, so it can be used in a query by itself. 07:51:11 It looks to be an extremely useful feature. 08:01:03 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:04:35 -!- blotter_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:11:15 But SQL does have unusual features compared to other programming languages; many of which can be useful in the applicable circumstances. Other features I think would be useful to have are overridable views, trigger indices, and ordered triggers. 08:14:29 And the ability to rename views would also be useful. 08:39:56 I don't know much about logic programming language; if you know then hopefully you would know whether WITH clauses can make SQL into logic programming language. 08:58:20 So, I won't be changing my representation to just modifiers, I think. Although I will try to provide a function to turn a modifier into a getter+modifier pair, although it's only meant to be used on non-lazy structures 08:58:35 Racket does have the occasional lazy structure, so I hope this is the right decision 09:21:19 Sgeo, did you know that lens is turing complete 09:23:11 Now I do 09:23:12 Howso? 09:24:55 Well, the easiest way I've seen is by simulation of B,C,K,W with fix to get round Hindley-Milner 09:24:55 It suddenly occurs to me that I have no idea if this is a good idea :/ 09:25:20 Well, when I run my test, it will probably break horribly if this is a bad idea 09:25:30 "good" is a false concept. There is no justice in this world, Sgeo. 09:25:36 @type over mapped `asTypeOf` \a b c -> a (b c) 09:25:38 Functor ((->) t) => (a -> b) -> (t -> a) -> t -> b 09:25:56 @type view flipped `asTypeOf` \a b c -> a c b 09:25:57 (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c 09:26:18 @type view curried (view _1) `asTypeOf` \a b -> a 09:26:19 b1 -> b -> b1 09:26:45 Oh hey, looks like it did break horribly 09:26:52 @type perform (over mapped acts acts) `asTypeOf` \a b -> a b b 09:26:53 Monad ((->) t) => (t -> t -> b) -> t -> b 09:27:02 And the grand finale: 09:27:27 @type over mapped (view flipped (foldrOf folded (over mapped) (view simple)) ((&) ^?! ignored)) (toListOf repeated) 09:27:28 (a -> a) -> a 09:28:11 it's so simple. 09:29:36 :t (.) join . (.) . flip 09:29:37 (a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 09:30:19 :t (.) join . flip . (.) (.) 09:30:19 (a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 09:42:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:48:09 What is the algorithm to figure out how to create a "frequent words" table so that text containing any sequence of characters which are included in the table can be compressed? It is slightly complicated, because the cost of the text may occasionally differ slightly depending on which table it is in. 09:59:20 I either need to rework getters to use lists instead of multiple-valued return, or rework composition of modifiers to be compatible with multiple-valued returns 10:00:59 I think the former may make more sense 10:19:37 -!- nooga has joined. 10:23:56 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:53:20 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:54:02 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:56:55 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:57:41 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:59:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 11:15:16 @djinn (a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c 11:15:17 f a b c = a c (b c) 11:15:40 @pl f a b c = a c (b c) 11:15:41 f = ap 11:15:53 Taneb: It's all just ap 11:17:30 I bet there is a simpler way to do ap with lens 11:17:39 Without using cheaty lambdas 11:29:09 > over mapped (view flipped (foldrOf folded (over mapped) (view simple)) ((&) ^?! ignored)) (toListOf repeated) id 11:29:13 mueval-core: Time limit exceeded 11:41:38 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:45:06 -!- nooga has joined. 11:49:02 I am running into problems that are, fundamentally, caused by being in a dynamic language 11:49:31 (lens-mod (hash 'a 5) (compose-lens (at 'a) (at 'b)) (const 6)) 11:50:00 What is that supposed to do, exactly? The item at 'a in the original object isn't a dict that (at 'b) would know how to modify 11:51:47 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:54:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:56:28 Sgeo: You're on your own 12:05:27 -!- nooga has joined. 12:06:05 The only solution that comes readily to mind is having a separate mode for setters 12:06:15 So, getter+modifier+setter tuple 12:06:20 But that seems horrific 12:07:11 Unless... I can have a lens that would 'fail', instead somehow ask upstream what to do 12:07:30 Like, sending some kind of signal, that const would, by its very nature, ignore, but other things wouldn't 12:07:42 Except... hmm 12:08:52 (values) is a thing that unless you ignore it, you choke on it 12:09:03 (Or otherwise specifically look for it) 12:23:05 lens.rkt is now safely on GitHub. 12:40:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:55:45 -!- Fusl has joined. 12:55:46 -!- yorick has joined. 12:56:02 -!- Fusl has left ("Konversation terminated!"). 12:57:11 -!- nyuszika7h has joined. 13:04:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:18:43 -!- realzies has changed nick to dgw__. 13:18:54 -!- dgw__ has changed nick to realzies. 13:19:12 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:21:46 -!- realzies has changed nick to some1special. 13:21:58 -!- some1special has changed nick to realzies. 13:30:21 Sgeo: I wonder if Typed Racket would work better 13:32:06 Or I just modify all modifiers to receive a signal saying 'no value given' 13:32:52 Some modifiers might choke on that (car-l, cdr-l), some might not 13:35:17 Ultimately, const would not care that there's no value given, because it provides a value. 13:35:27 But a different user-supplied modifier would fail with an arity error 13:37:24 Hmm, just now decided to check for lenses in other dynamically-typed languages 13:37:28 pylens exists 13:38:22 I need sleep 13:45:52 -!- heroux has joined. 14:27:44 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:28:25 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:32:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:48:17 -!- password2 has joined. 15:20:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:35:35 -!- shikhout has joined. 15:39:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:39:01 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 15:43:20 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:48:29 -!- constant has joined. 16:06:41 mmm , shikhout sounds nederlands 16:14:40 password2: Nah, it's a play on my primary nick (my real name), shikhin. 16:14:49 password2: So, shikhout and shikherr are my secondary nicks. 16:14:54 *and tertiary 16:17:48 -!- blotter has joined. 16:21:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:25:02 -!- tertu has joined. 16:34:15 -!- tromp_ has joined. 16:34:40 ah 16:34:48 hout means wood in my language 16:36:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:44:05 -!- blotter_ has joined. 16:45:51 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:04:10 Drewno means wood in my language 17:06:34 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:13:26 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:35:17 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:43:40 what language is that? 17:45:13 ah polish 17:48:50 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:50:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:52:57 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:57:35 -!- heroux has joined. 18:04:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:07:31 `coins 18:07:32 doncoin gebsoncoin polycoin tempncoin paranhehcoin isccoin subamcoin emocoin mdjcoin @!coin versigcoin msizecoin haccoin roadlycoin nolocoin gasphalcshicoin sothesecoin calcoin bigehotorcoin retuacoin 18:09:51 hot or coin 18:10:16 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:10:23 Fun fact : coin means "quack" in french 18:10:27 coin coin 18:14:14 Duck is kaczka in Polish 18:20:18 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 18:21:39 cuckoo coin 18:23:48 -!- password2 has joined. 18:41:13 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:08:06 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:08:55 -!- JesseH has joined. 19:52:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:52:48 which of these fuckin bots has quotes again 19:52:50 `quote box 19:52:51 46) Maternal instincts? Don't you just leave the thing in a box until it starts crying, and then shake it until it stops? \ 518) according to physics and maths can we theoretically have a box with infinite cookies inside? \ 637) BOXBOT IS TERRIBLE NOBODY LIKES BOXBOT He's just a box with arms 19:53:07 `quote broke 19:53:08 174) zzo38: A better definition would probably fix Avogadro's number. It's broken? \ 380) * Sgeo mutters about broken toilets #toilet is useless is #toilet even a thing I'm looking for help with toilets \ 497) But I mean, why fix it if it ain't broke? Except now it is \ 795) the other day I b 19:54:39 `quote HackEgo 19:54:39 33) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that \ 74) let's put that in the HackEgo quotes files, just to completely mystify anyone who looks back along them in the future \ 310) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a gira 19:55:19 I wonder which bot has the most quotes, fungot perhaps? 19:55:19 olsner: there is winscheme48, too.) 19:57:45 `run tr ' ' '\n' < quotes | grep '^<.*>$' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | paste 19:57:47 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14276 19:57:57 Oh, no pasteing allowed. 19:58:01 `run tr ' ' '\n' < quotes | grep '^<.*>$' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr 19:58:01 ​ 142 \ 132 \ 109 \ 100 \ 96 \ 95 \ 88 \ 78 \ 68 \ 63 \ 61 \ 55 \ 52 \ 52 \ 49 \ 42 \ 32 \ 26 \ 19:58:11 Well, it's the first bot-like thing in the list, anyway. 19:58:55 :O 19:59:36 `run /usr/bin/paste 19:59:56 I guess that kind of pasteing is fine. 20:00:06 No output. 20:00:13 no pasting allowed? 20:00:30 wait what the heck, i'm in more quotes than itidus? 20:00:32 travesty 20:08:32 -!- conehead has joined. 20:23:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:25:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:40:34 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 20:44:48 -!- blotter__ has joined. 20:45:26 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:46:22 -!- blotter_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:52:41 Do you like SQL? 20:54:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:54:34 I don't like that SQL is so strongly identified with its concrete syntax, and that SQL is still commonly used by gluing together strings in another programming languages 20:54:58 the interface between an application and a database should be something richer than strings 20:55:23 I don't like that strongly gluing of SQL either, but I don't generally use it that way anyways. 20:56:12 And you can use things like ?1 ?2 rather than joining strings using other programs, if you do need to pass parameters to the SQL statements. 20:56:42 SQL can be used fine by itself, and if the program allows the user to enter SQL statements. 20:59:06 SQL is actually a complete programming language, although one which is unusual, it is still good for many things. 21:00:20 Do you disagree with any of this? 21:03:20 not really 21:03:47 parameters like ?1 are an improvement, but don't really address my core complaint, which isn't about SQL but about how the world works more generally 21:04:11 perhaps I will try to explain later 21:05:20 Actually I think I agree your statement about "how the world works more generally", but that doesn't make SQL bad; it just means database interfaces are lacking. 21:06:01 I do generally work with SQL by writing all of the SQL statements, triggers, etc in one file, so the program is mainly written in SQL and any extensions required may be written in C. 21:06:26 The other way around seems more common, and perhaps your complaint addresses that. 21:36:13 yeah 21:36:15 basically I am annoyed that the only truly universal data format is ASCII text 21:38:16 and so when you design a new file format / language / protocol, you have to put a lot of thought into how to represent it as ASCII text 21:39:10 and both designers and implementers tend to screw this up in ways that make life miserable 21:39:52 in particular it causes a lot of security problems due to improper escaping 21:40:22 and the fact that escaping needs to be aware of multiple layers at once 21:40:48 Actually a lot of things can be done with binary data, if you know the endianness and all of that stuff. 21:43:09 e.g. perfectly well-formated JSON can still cause trouble when it's pasted after a HTML " 21:43:35 whereas if you think mostly in terms of trees, you still need to serialize them at some point, but that can be a core low-level library and you only have to get it right there 21:50:14 It is possible to work-around the "" problem though. But there are in fact binary formats meant to be usable similar to JSON but if you want binary rather than text format. 22:25:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:30:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:32:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:37:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:46:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:51:00 * oerjan just realized you could do let s = it in ghci 22:51:06 -!- boily has joined. 22:51:12 hoily 22:52:18 hellœrjan! 22:55:27 -!- metasepia has joined. 23:00:54 `coins 23:00:55 knhcoin sticcoin catccoin flattocoin wiecoin flecoin cariacoin d1reratcoin drocoin brzrocoin recolouxcoin subicoin subulolchicoin nicidicoin commucoin comercoin sallingpowrtyrevolucoin twomacoin genomecoin cradicoin 23:01:23 zzo38: sure, it is usually possible to work around design flaws in any kind of system 23:01:56 but you can't count on every developer to know all the traps and workarounds and apply them perfectly 100% of the time 23:02:02 and even if they did it would still be a large cost 23:03:23 * boily chokes on trying to say “brzrocoin” 23:04:34 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:13:22 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:28:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:54 -!- augur has joined. 23:30:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:30:37 -!- augur has joined. 23:50:47 nocoin 23:54:54 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 23:56:40 `run echo KCUF | rev 23:56:41 FUCK 23:57:30 `run echo 'GAB A KCUF' | rev 23:57:31 FUCK A BAG 23:57:37 Gregor, your bot has misbehaving 23:57:54 *is 23:57:55 Knights Christian United in Faith 23:58:01 `relcome blotter__ 23:58:02 ​blotter__: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:58:48 `run echo 'CMK UOY KCUF' | rev 23:58:49 FUCK YOU KMC 23:58:56 wow so mean 23:59:09 `coins 23:59:10 dungcoin objectcoin podoccoin muguecoin iorslccoin pyraziecoin afelycoin ilecoin rfremblebraicoin pircoin blongcoin minarycodcoin soncoin laoticacoin blacroncalcoin commencoin dravitycoin genocoin elzellornicoin mithcoin 23:59:31 tittycoin appears to be missing 2014-02-18: 00:00:51 `run echo '/quit' 00:00:52 ​/quit 00:00:57 `run echo '/part' 00:00:57 ​/part 00:03:25 It doesn't work like that 00:03:59 so i see 00:04:09 it was worth a shot 00:04:25 `run printf '\r\nQUIT :a\r\n' # would do better, but won't work anyway 00:04:26 ​ 00:05:00 obviously it wont be a raw irc message 00:05:14 otherwise plain echos wouldnt work 00:06:58 * boily chokes on trying to say “brzrocoin” <-- you're just not czech enough hth 00:07:52 I am Canadian. I am also sane. those are two qualities that prevent me of pronouncing exotic consonant clusters. 00:08:29 still with the delusions 00:09:36 the delusions, they are delicious. 00:10:01 (or is that the meal I'm currently eating? I can't make the distinction.) 00:18:01 -!- blotter__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:24:08 my current meal is so cheesy 00:24:30 also bready and liver patéy 00:27:01 http://yle.fi/uutiset/poroille_tarkoitetun_heijastinsprayn_tehtavana_estaa_liikenneonnettomuuksia/7093117 00:32:00 Well, the easiest way I've seen is by simulation of B,C,K,W with fix to get round Hindley-Milner <-- come to think of it, i don't actually have a citation that that is enough. i'm suddenly worried by the fact you cannot make polymorphic functions this way. 00:33:25 i'm not sure that it's actually a problem, though. 00:34:08 pâté de foie is a good thing. 00:34:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN OF DOUBT). 00:34:30 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:34:40 and i think lens probably has enough stuff that you could make arithmetic directly as well, which would surely clinch it. 00:35:46 If you write "echo KCUF | rev", then the respose is supposed to be "FUCK" it isn't a misbehaviour. If you don't like it, give different input please! 00:36:00 boily: Being Canadian and sane prevent you from pronouncing some things? Are you sure? 00:36:39 :t view curried (view (sumOf both)) 00:36:40 Couldn't match type `((a0, b0) -> Accessor a1 (a0, b0), 00:36:40 (a0, b0) -> Accessor a1 (a0, b0))' 00:36:40 with `a1 -> Accessor a1 a1' 00:36:45 hm not quite 00:37:11 :t view curried (sumOf both) 00:37:12 Num a => a -> a -> a 00:37:26 :t view curried (productOf both) 00:37:27 Num a => a -> a -> a 00:37:37 I think it is allowed to be both sane and insane simultaneously. 00:38:14 There is an area of the mind that could be called unsane, beyond sanity, and yet not insane. Think of a circle with a fine split in it. At one end there's insanity. You go around the circle to sanity, and on the other end of the circle, close to insanity, but not insanity, is unsanity. 00:38:24 `addquote I think it is allowed to be both sane and insane simultaneously. 00:38:26 1170) I think it is allowed to be both sane and insane simultaneously. 00:39:19 :t (^-) 00:39:20 Not in scope: `^-' 00:39:20 Perhaps you meant one of these: 00:39:20 `-' (imported from Prelude), `^' (imported from Prelude), 00:39:24 oops 00:39:28 When the object enters the timestream, time begins to correct itself. Let me use this example: Imagine four balls on the edge of a cliff. Say a direct copy of the ball nearest the cliff is sent to the back of the line of balls and takes the place of the first ball. The formerly first ball becomes the second, the second becomes the third, and the fourth falls off the cliff. Time works the same way. 00:39:31 :t (~-) 00:39:32 Not in scope: `~-' 00:39:33 Perhaps you meant one of these: 00:39:33 `-' (imported from Prelude), `-~' (imported from Control.Lens) 00:39:38 :t (-~) 00:39:39 Num a => ASetter s t a a -> a -> s -> t 00:39:46 kmc: O, that's how it works. 00:39:54 OK, now I know 00:40:16 zzo38: that's what Terence McKenna says, anyway 00:40:28 dude probably smoked his own weight in DMT 00:40:39 :O 00:40:41 depending on your perspective that might make him either more or less reliable on these matters 00:40:46 OK, now I can know who such a quotation is from. 00:41:11 wait is DMT something you smoke 00:41:12 naturally, I know that quote not from reading his writing directly but from hearing it in a psychedelic trance song 00:41:17 Bike: can be 00:41:23 drat 00:41:56 "When smoked, DMT generally reaches full effects within 10-60 seconds of inhalation." it's one of these 00:41:58 I don't know what "DMT" stands for. 00:42:04 dimethyltryptamine. 00:42:20 N,N-dimethyltryptamine yeah 00:42:40 I,I N,N-dimethyltryptamine 00:42:43 * kmc has smoked 5-MeO-DMT but not DMT 00:43:16 I tried ayahuasca once 00:43:16 i,i 2-(1H-indol-3-yl)-N,N-dimethylethanamine ¬_¬ 00:43:46 Bike: you can also trip from eating DMT-containing plants but you need to take them with a MAOI; there are traditional preparations for this 00:43:51 copumpkin: oh, how was it? 00:43:56 weird as hell 00:44:02 but I haven't tried regular DMT 00:44:04 :t (-~) (over simple) 00:44:04 I threw up a bunch :P 00:44:05 Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t0 = Mutator t0 00:44:05 Expected type: ASetter (Mutator t0) t0 (Mutator t0) (Mutator t0) 00:44:05 Actual type: (Mutator t0 -> Mutator t0) 00:44:11 https://24.media.tumblr.com/901826dd6f13abf694cac1fb0442643d/tumblr_n09sqfia1j1qetjcco3_250.jpg 00:44:11 did you see the machine elves 00:44:12 darn what was it again 00:44:17 :t (-~) id 00:44:18 Num t => t -> t -> t 00:44:32 :t over simple 00:44:33 (b -> b) -> b -> b 00:44:34 nope, but I saw lots of weird things getting drawn in green tendrils 00:44:38 cool 00:44:46 it was really weird, part of a ritual in the dark 00:44:48 :t view simple 00:44:49 MonadReader a m => m a 00:45:01 :t view simple id 00:45:03 a -> a 00:45:03 :t (-~) (view simple) 00:45:04 Num a => a -> a -> a 00:45:06 the room was completely dark but if my eyes were open, I'd feel super lucid 00:45:21 but since it was dark and I was seeing shit regardless, my eyes would creep shut without me noticing, but when they were shut I'd feel super mentally congested 00:45:25 :t view simple id 3 00:45:26 Num a => a 00:45:27 then I'd open them up and feel relieved again 00:45:33 woah 00:45:36 that's interesting 00:45:47 yeah 00:45:53 I'd do it again, but didn't much enjoy the throwing up :) 00:46:22 :t lengthOf 00:46:23 Getting (Endo (Endo Int)) s a -> s -> Int 00:46:25 yeah 00:46:27 it was the sketchiest thing I've ever done, too. I was in a big city in the peruvian amazon, super poor, driven away into the slums of the poor city 00:46:44 then walked into a house where the shaman lived 00:46:54 probably not the wisest thing to do, but it worked out 00:47:00 i'm glad it worked out :) 00:47:02 eating a large qty of plant stuff is a good way to throw up, yeah 00:47:08 though i have puked from pure synthetic psychedelics too 00:47:12 this was a weird liquid concoction 00:47:13 (well, purity unknown but probably high) 00:47:15 ah 00:47:37 I'd still like to try pure DMT 00:48:11 pity they took SR down :P 00:48:13 >_< 00:48:26 FreeFull: view simple _is_ id 00:48:31 oerjan: I know 00:48:55 FreeFull: the game here is to use no identifiers or constructors defined outside lens 00:49:05 I know 00:49:46 :t aside 00:49:47 (Applicative f, Choice p) => APrism s t a b -> p (e, a) (f (e, b)) -> p (e, s) (f (e, t)) 00:49:54 :t beside 00:49:55 (Applicative (Data.Profunctor.Rep.Rep q), Applicative f, Data.Profunctor.Rep.Representable q) => Overloading p q f s t a b -> Overloading p q f s' t' a b -> Overloading p q f (s, s') (t, t') a b 00:50:02 hm 00:50:06 :t side 00:50:07 Not in scope: `side' 00:50:07 Perhaps you meant one of these: 00:50:07 `aside' (imported from Control.Lens), 00:54:16 -!- tertu has joined. 00:56:25 :t re _Just 00:56:27 (Functor f, Contravariant f) => (Maybe b -> f (Maybe b)) -> b -> f b 00:57:17 :t review _Just 00:57:18 MonadReader b m => m (Maybe b) 00:58:24 :t lengthOf (review _Just) _Just 00:58:25 Couldn't match type `Maybe (a0 -> Accessor (Endo (Endo Int)) a0)' 00:58:25 with `(p0 a1 (f0 b0) -> p0 (Maybe a1) (f0 (Maybe b0))) 00:58:25 -> Accessor 00:58:34 :t lengthOf 00:58:35 Getting (Endo (Endo Int)) s a -> s -> Int 00:59:37 :t lengthOf folded ((review _Just) _Just) 00:59:38 No instance for (Choice p0) arising from a use of `_Just' 00:59:38 The type variable `p0' is ambiguous 00:59:38 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 00:59:42 argh 00:59:49 :t lengthOf folded 00:59:50 Foldable f => f a -> Int 01:00:40 can't you just use djinn somehow 01:00:49 :t lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (view simple)) 01:00:50 No instance for (MonadReader a0 m0) arising from a use of `view' 01:00:50 The type variables `m0', `a0' are ambiguous 01:00:50 Possible fix: add a type signature that fixes these type variable(s) 01:01:43 :t lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple)) 01:01:44 Int 01:01:47 whew 01:01:52 > lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple)) 01:01:56 1 01:02:00 yay! 01:02:24 :t review 01:02:26 MonadReader b m => AReview s t a b -> m t 01:02:36 well i'm satisfied 01:04:07 Bike: just ponder http://cokmett.github.io/cokmett/ (you need to click on the picture) 01:04:36 incredible 01:04:53 bimonocycleoid 01:06:03 hm i recall a question whether it was statistically guaranteed to halt, don't think it got a proper answer 01:07:08 Highlighting the picture seems to reveal something, although clicking on it doesn't work. 01:08:02 > view curried (productOf both) (lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple))) (lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple))) 01:08:06 1 01:08:11 oops 01:08:17 > view curried (sumOf both) (lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple))) (lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple))) 01:08:19 2 01:08:27 @tell Taneb view curried (sumOf both) (lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple))) (lengthOf folded ((review _Just) (over simple))) 01:08:27 Consider it noted. 01:08:54 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:09:54 now do fib 01:09:58 Heh, using lengthOf for getting numbers 01:10:00 :t lengthOf 01:10:01 Getting (Endo (Endo Int)) s a -> s -> Int 01:10:13 Bike: oh Taneb already did 01:10:21 yeah but isn't _1 cheating or something 01:10:31 no, _1 is defined in lens 01:10:41 yeah but it has a 1 in it. 01:10:43 clearly too easy. 01:10:48 bah 01:10:54 > let foo1 = 'a' in foo1 01:10:55 'a' 01:10:58 _1 is fair 01:11:02 otherwise why did you go through all the effort of finding another way to get 1 01:11:44 How do you get 1 from _1? 01:11:52 hell if i know, i'm not a nerd 01:12:07 I don't think tuples are indexed 01:12:12 zzo38: it's using javascript 01:14:35 > (3,4) & view (each.index 0) 01:14:37 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' 01:14:37 with `p0 b' (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 b')' 01:14:37 Expected type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:14:37 -> p0 b' (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 b') 01:14:37 Actual type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:14:55 > [3,4] & view (each.index 0) 01:14:56 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' 01:14:56 with `p0 t0 (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 t0)' 01:14:56 Expected type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:14:56 -> p0 t0 (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 t0) 01:14:56 Actual type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:15:00 oop 01:15:01 s 01:15:33 > [3,4] & view (traversed.index 0) 01:15:34 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' 01:15:35 with `p0 t0 (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 t0)' 01:15:35 Expected type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:15:35 -> p0 t0 (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 t0) 01:15:35 Actual type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:16:57 -!- tertu has joined. 01:17:03 > (3,4) ^. each.index 0 01:17:05 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' 01:17:05 with `p0 b' (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 b')' 01:17:05 Expected type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:17:05 -> p0 b' (Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 b') 01:17:05 Actual type: (a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Getter.Accessor a0 a0) 01:18:29 What is your opinion of procedural SQL? I do not find procedural SQL extensions useful; the features provided by SQLite (now that recursive WITH clauses are supported) is good enough. Wikipedia does say, SQL is influenced by Datalog, so there is some relation to logic programming. 01:18:59 procedural sql is the false helix 01:20:13 However, two missing features from SQLite which would help would be CREATE FUNCTION (not in the way PL/SQL does it, though), and ALTER ... RENAME TO ... for objects other than tables. 01:21:03 Better way of CREATE FUNCTION should be one similar to views, so it is like: CREATE FUNCTION name(args) AS expression; 01:22:04 @tell Taneb hm i briefly forgot you'd already done fibonacci. 01:22:05 Consider it noted. 01:22:53 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:25:04 To do aggregate functions you should have, before AS, put ACCUMULATING and a list of variables, each one has "name = initial_value UPDATE TO new_value". Do you think that would be better way? 01:26:28 For example: CREATE FUNCTION TOTAL(X) ACCUMULATING (T = 0 UPDATE TO T+X) AS T; 01:28:55 no pasting allowed? <-- pasting is allowed. you're just not allowed to look at the result. 01:34:58 -!- blotter__ has joined. 01:45:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:23 i think the last paragraph of this blog post is on topic here http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/finite-time-blowup-for-an-averaged-three-dimensional-navier-stokes-equation/#respond 01:55:42 oops i forgot to take off that #respond 01:55:54 (as did the reddit poster) 01:56:52 it is my dream to some day understand something tao says 01:57:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:57:32 basically terry tao is suggesting that it _could_ in principle be possible to disprove the navier-stokes conjecture by embedding a computer into ideal fluid mechanics 01:57:52 O_o 01:58:27 or something equivalent to a cellular automaton replicator 01:58:34 «To visualise the dynamics of such a system, I found it useful to describe this system graphically by a “circuit diagram” that is analogous (but not identical) to the circuit diagrams arising in electrical engineering» damn 01:58:53 not that this looks anything like a circuit diagram but 01:59:20 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:00:30 also he refers to the lord of the rings movies 02:01:10 (don't worry Bike, i don't really understand any of this either) 02:01:29 i've yet to meet anyone that can understand tao 02:02:28 of course, i probably couldn't understand anyone who could understand tao 02:03:34 -!- tertu has joined. 02:20:15 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:20:32 -!- heroux has joined. 02:29:26 -!- CADD has joined. 02:29:50 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest76828. 02:33:41 -!- Guest76828 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:36:56 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:41:52 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:43:08 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:10:17 -!- blotter__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:14:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 03:19:43 -!- Frooxius has joined. 03:23:28 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:24:01 -!- tromp has joined. 03:28:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:33:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:53:37 -!- blotter__ has joined. 04:03:00 What d'you call the idea that if you choose something randomly it tends to be one of the more common ones? 04:03:45 bias? 04:03:55 Perhaps! 04:05:11 distribution? 04:16:24 Taneb: It isn't precisely clear what you mean. 04:16:41 i'm with zzo38 04:16:43 I don't think it really matters 04:17:08 Like, I'm trying to compute an estimate of the mode. Enumerating the possibilities is expensive. 04:17:40 Taneb: a poll? 04:18:12 I don't think it really matters what I call it 04:19:22 well i think the mode may be one of the hardest parameters to estimate if you don't have some other knowledge about the distribution 04:20:21 because you might miss it completely if it's a narrow spike 04:21:29 oerjan, here it's the case that any of the population is sort of good enough 04:21:32 Just the mode is the best 04:22:04 O, yes, that is what it is called; it is called the mode. 04:22:18 At first I didn't understand, but of course, that is what it is. 04:22:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:25:29 -!- luserdroog has joined. 04:29:22 -!- password2 has joined. 04:39:46 -!- tertu has joined. 04:40:47 I thought of idea to connect I/O devices to computer and to each other using ethernet, that peer-to-peer is possible, no special drivers are need to write implementations or proxies, and several other things. 04:43:16 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:48:19 just hook up keyboard to ethernet broadcast 04:48:24 everyone gets every keystroke..p2p! 04:48:46 in uni we made a Linux kernel driver which let you share a page of memory with every host on your LAN 04:48:58 Yes, that is the other thing; to allow multiple devices to be having multiple devices. 04:49:22 it was p. cool, you could just write into memory and the other nodes would see it by magic 04:49:28 DSM! 04:49:30 For example to allow one keyboard on two computers, or multiple computers to share access to a single disk. 04:49:31 of course doing this with good performance is Very Hard 04:49:42 but it's also a problem that multi-core systems have to solve 04:49:46 A file system could be supported using FTP and Plan 9 protocols. 04:50:15 EPARSE "ftp and plan9 protocols" 04:50:37 it would have been fun to extend that project by implementing real cache coherence protocols 04:51:05 newsham: Plan9 is a network protocol. To be specific it is the network protocol used for all RPC on Plan 9. :) 04:51:23 Or to have two devices connected to each other without necessarily needing the host computer (other than a router or something like that). 04:52:28 http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/plan9/ 04:55:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:56:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:57:13 Did somebody say Plan9? 04:57:24 Longtime fan, never used it. 04:57:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:57:43 I think it would be a good idea to make each process in a Linux (or similar) system to have a filesystem associated which is under its directory in /proc/ and if the program doesn't provide a filesystem, then you should get a "disk is not inserted" error when you try to access it. 04:58:35 luserdroog: you should use it. you can get a vm imgae setup really quickly. 04:59:13 Hmm. I do have some free disk space after offloading some porn.... 05:07:20 -!- atriq has joined. 05:07:27 My desktop decided to stop working 05:07:40 First time I've used my laptop in aaaages 05:08:38 is it pining for the fjords 05:08:57 It's pining for a hard drive that hasn't fallen out, I think 05:09:03 aha 05:09:15 plan9 ran on big machines in 2002. so pretty much takes up no disk space today ;-) 05:09:29 also the core system is itself pretty small 05:09:58 you can find some demo videos on youtubes, too 05:10:13 You know, it's 5 am 05:10:17 I really should sleep 05:10:42 Didn't people used to complain about how much resources a Smalltalk VM took up? 05:11:12 How much resources to they compare to how much DOS takes up? 05:11:20 also easy to get and use -- plan9 ports, which give syou much of the plan9 env/tools in unix. http://swtch.com/plan9port/ 05:14:21 Taneb: it sounds like you were describing the idea of statistical sampling 05:14:24 @localtime atriq 05:14:24 people will complain about anything 05:14:25 sgeo: now its just a small vm for toys on olpcs. :) 05:14:51 @time 05:14:54 Local time for oerjan is Tue Feb 18 06:14:51 2014 05:15:20 Local time for atriq is Tue Feb 18 05:15:25 05:15:25 Is it possible to obtain OLPCs these days? 05:15:43 i imagine people are throwing them away by now 05:16:02 Sgeo: ask Blaketh 05:16:13 he's in #trains 05:16:13 -!- SirCmpwn has changed nick to SirCmpwn_. 05:16:16 google says ebay has some for sale in the $100-$150 range 05:16:26 at one point he had like 30 of them plus the box that lets you charge 30 batteries at once :) 05:17:04 walmart has new olpc tablets 05:17:10 My laptop has connectivity problems 05:17:15 -!- SirCmpwn_ has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 05:17:25 one laptop per connection 05:18:25 i've got an xo. the clock battery is out, so i have to manually fix the date to use it properly, but other than that in working order 05:20:25 i installed debian on mine but it kept hard-freezing 05:20:41 -!- blotter__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:22:43 @ping 05:22:44 pong 05:23:35 looks fast enough from here 05:23:41 oerjan, it keeps dropping 05:24:00 It's fast but unstable 05:24:09 i should install the cray emulator on my xo 05:26:15 Have "process custom file systems" been implemented at all? I think I have seen some, but they require the program to terminate and retain some directory elsewhere, which doesn't seem very sensible to me. 05:31:05 -!- SirCmpwn has changed nick to SirAway. 05:32:02 Do you know of any graphics libraries for SQL? 05:32:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:32:31 dont know what you mean by 'process custom filesystems' 05:32:56 My live esolang creation is in 3 days 05:34:09 newsham: I mean that in the process directory under /proc/ there would be another directory which represents a filesystem implemented by the program, and is available while it is running. If no filesystem is implemented by the program, then you could get a "disk not inserted" error or something like that, when trying to access it. 05:35:04 there are programs which implement synthetic filesystems from usre programs, usually using the fuse library and driver. 05:35:16 plan9ports (plan 9 from user space) has some in its dist 05:35:32 ie. when you run acme you get /mnt/acme/* directories for your acme windows. 05:35:42 see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M for a demo 05:35:51 OK, but that isn't quite what I meant. 05:36:04 I meant you would get it in /proc/1928/fs/ or whatever. 05:36:19 its a filesystem implemented by a program which is available while its running.. although its not (normally) mounted under /proc 05:36:20 (And if you wanted it elsewhere, you would create a link to it.) 05:36:24 it could be, if you wanted it to 05:36:41 you can mount it anywhere you feel like, of course 05:37:31 I mean the system should be designed to automatically mount it in /proc whether or not the program even provides a filesystem. If more than one instance is then running, you can access each one by their process ID. 05:38:21 whats the advantage? seems like you'd force each proc to implement at most one fs 05:38:34 i guess to answer your question, no, i have not heard of such a thing 05:39:19 If it implements more than one, they can be implemented in subdirectories, so you don't need more than one. 05:39:40 unless you didnt want them to have a parent/child relation to each other 05:40:14 you should implement it for the linux kernel and give it a try 05:40:41 They don't need to; for example you can implement one as /proc/444/fs/A/ and one as /proc/444/fs/B/ but they would generally be the same filesystem actually; if separate implementations exist the program would just proxy them through the A and B directories. 05:41:38 Or else the process could fork additional processes, if that would help at all. 05:42:16 -!- blotter__ has joined. 05:42:38 I think I'll just have all (most) lenses be merely traversals.... a wrong type would get reported as being 0 targets 05:43:34 zzo38 : the Aditi project was a really interesting idea 05:44:01 For example if the program implements FTP access as a local file system, then you might use a command like "ftpfs example.org &" and then you get its process ID; afterward you can close the connection by sending SIGTERM to the process, or perhaps to reset the connection by sending SIGUSR1. 05:44:49 ski: What is that? 05:45:02 a deductive database system 05:45:06 or rather, it was 05:46:11 it had integration with Prolog, and later with Mercury 05:46:32 How does it work? Do you have an example? 05:46:47 http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/4/ftpfs 05:47:22 the project page is 05:48:43 "it" being the deductive database parts ? or the integration with Prolog or Mercury ? 05:49:10 ski: I mean the deductive database. 05:49:36 do you know any logic programming (like Prolog) ? 05:50:24 No, I don't know much about it. Wikipedia says SQL is influenced by Datalog, but I don't know much about how Prolog or Datalog works. 05:50:37 -!- SirAway has changed nick to SirCmpmn. 05:50:45 I know SQL though. I also know some about some kinds of synbolic logic. 05:50:58 well, then you imo should sooner or later learn some Logic Programming. it's quite interesting 05:51:12 preferably sooner :) 05:51:13 What relation does it have with SQL? 05:51:22 Maybe then I can understand. 05:51:32 Since, I do know how to write programs in SQL. 05:51:57 unfortunately, SQL has a very ugly syntax 05:52:23 Logic Programming languages typically borrow their syntax much more directly from first-order predicate logic 05:52:47 I do not think the syntax of SQL is so bad. 05:54:34 the main thing that should have to be changed in a Prolog-like syntax, to make it better applicable to databases, it adding support for records / named arguments, so that you don't have to remember the order of arguments for a thirteen-arity relation 05:54:38 newsham: I can see from that, its implementation has to add various things such as using unmount command, trying to access the user's home directory, etc, even though with my suggestion it is a bit more simpler since you can just use SIGTERM to get rid of the connection and that would automatically do everything for you; the directory is automatically gone since it is in /proc instead. 05:55:17 SQL is partly built as a pointful layer over relational algebra, which is more or less pointless 05:55:54 i would say sql is totally pointless ;-) 05:56:12 hehe (i meant "pointless" in the technical sense :) 05:56:16 newsham: Why? 05:56:29 Is prolog/datalog syntax actually compilable to something more efficient than brute-force? 05:56:30 zzo38: mostly for comedic effect. 05:56:47 -!- SirCmpmn has changed nick to SirCmpwn. 05:57:00 well, not totally. but unfortunately SQL deviates on several points from the relational model 05:57:15 ski: What kind of points do you mean? 05:57:31 (and then in addition many DBMSs deviate from the SQL standard) 05:58:02 :( Datomic is still proprietary, right? 05:58:22 Well, I use SQLite, and think many of the extensions that other systems add are mostly worthless. 05:59:47 [19:59] < zzo38> ski: What kind of points do you mean? 06:00:04 giving parameters names 06:00:31 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Pointfree 06:01:13 SQL programming does give everything names, such as tables, fields, and even loops are given names (unlike most programming languages). 06:01:37 Factor counts as almost fully pointfree, even though you do need to name parameters (just for the types, not for use in code), right? 06:02:18 [19:57] < ski> SQL is partly built as a pointful layer over relational algebra, which is more or less pointless 06:02:22 yah, he said it was pointful. 06:02:30 A view can contain a SELECT statement that doesn't define names for the result fields, although it won't be so useful if you want to try to insert data into the views (probably to cause triggers to fire). 06:03:56 zzo38 : some major points : order of attributes should never matter. nulls. duplicate tuples allowed in an extensional relation if it doesn't have a uniqueness constraintH 06:04:02 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:04:40 Sgeo : what do you mean by "brute-force" ? 06:04:54 ski: enumerating through every possibility, ala the List monad 06:05:14 Sgeo : deductive databases doesn't quite work like that 06:05:26 ski: ok. Prolog has to though, right? 06:05:33 yes, but that's different 06:06:04 ski: What do you mean, "order of attributes"? And, you can tell it which fields don't have null values, in SQL. 06:06:25 Logic Programming languages, like Prolog,Mercury,Oz,lambdaProlog, will employ backward-chaining, and will reason a tuple-at-a-time. this most commonly is implemented by backtracking 06:07:30 deductive databases otoh will employ forward-reasoning, and reason set-at-a-time, typically using variants of fixed-point-iteration for recursive intensional predicates 06:08:02 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 06:08:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Hneit). 06:08:36 the latter is typically much more efficient, when you're dealing with huge upto gigantic amounts of data, and only a comparatively very meager amount of rules ("views") in addition to it 06:09:15 in Prolog, the computation starts from the goal, and reasons backwards, trying to find ways of justifying the goal in terms of new subgoal 06:09:28 until it comes back to the base data 06:10:12 and tuple-at-a-time means that it follows one solution at a (conceptually) time, tracing it through the logic 06:10:39 one can handle multiple solutions in parallel (OR-Prolog) or in sequence (backtracking) 06:11:35 deductive databases otoh start from the base data, combines such base sets together with each other according to the rules of the intensional database, until it has finally computed the set of tuples corresponding to the query (goal) made by the user 06:12:34 and set-at-a-time means that it reasons about the sets of tuples/solutions collectively, iterating over them by joins familiar from relational database theory 06:13:31 the extensional part of the database consists of schemata of extensional/base relations, together with the current data (tuples/facts) that are currently stored in the database for these relations 06:14:18 the facts in these relations are usually ad hoc, representing some (usually incomplete) view of how the messy world happens to look like at the moment 06:14:38 (abbreviated EDB) 06:15:32 the intensional part of the database (IDB), in the SQL case consists of views 06:17:01 in deductive databases, the IDB *looks* more or less like a program in a Logic Programming language. it consists of mainly rules, and perhaps a few facts as well (thay generally do *not* have an "ad hoc" feel, but rather "must be" what they are, and probably won't change at all in the near future, at least not any more than the rules) 06:17:55 however, the actual execution of the rules (and facts) here is different, because forward-chaining and set-at-a-time rather than backward-chaining and tuple-at-a-time, as mentioned above 06:19:33 (btw, one difference between Aditi and basic Datalog is that Aditi had support for handling non-atomic datums in tuples) 06:21:29 one of the simplest examples of IDB relations is transitive closure 06:23:08 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:23:59 I do not quite understand what it related to databases. 06:24:38 we'd first declare something along the lines of 06:25:23 :- type airport == string. 06:25:34 OK 06:25:38 And then what? 06:25:54 -!- luserdroog has joined. 06:26:09 :- type distance == floating. 06:26:17 :- base flight(airport,airport,distance). 06:26:29 OK 06:26:33 OLPC! I loved my olpc to death. :( 06:26:46 :- mode flight(out,out,out) is nondet. 06:26:50 -!- tromp has joined. 06:27:03 What does ":- mode flight(out,out,out) is nondet." mean? 06:27:05 (i'm deviating a bit from the actual Aditi syntax here) 06:27:13 Not irreparable. I broke the pin in the power jack. 06:27:56 it's a mode declaration, and this mode declaration, with all `out's, and with `nondet' would probably be provided by default for base/extensional relations 06:28:39 I do not understand what that means. 06:28:58 it basically says that we can generate (output) values for the three attributes of this relation, and that we may get any number of solutions ("non-deterministic", zero or more solutions/tuples) 06:29:18 Ah, OK 06:29:36 i think for every base relation, we will have a mode with only `out's and with determinism `nondet' 06:30:09 How is it different if you don't put "out" in there, then? 06:30:13 (maybe in some cases it would make sense to change the determinism from `nondet' here, i'm not sure) 06:30:23 well, that's mostly interesting for IDB predicates 06:30:55 so 06:31:36 :- pred trip(airport,airport,distance). 06:31:42 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:32:05 :- mode trip(in,out) is nondet. 06:32:19 er, we should get distance as well 06:32:23 :- mode trip(in,out,out) is nondet. 06:32:35 And how does that mean, then? 06:32:36 :- mode trip(out,in,out) is nondet. 06:34:08 the first of these two modes mean that we may query on the trip/3 relation (which is basically a view, in SQL terminology), providing the starting airport, and get back a set of triples with that starting airport, and all possible ending airports, and the cumulative distance travelled 06:34:29 for the second mode, in the other direction, from ending to starting 06:34:36 OK 06:35:31 (possibly there isn't much difference in this specific example, since i suppose flights between airports are usually(?) bidirectional, i.e. offered in both directions -- perhaps this isn't to be assumed in general) 06:36:14 Although SQL views don't take inputs, and may not even contain any meaningful data (when I write SQL programs at least, perhaps half of the time the views don't contain any data and are write-only). 06:36:32 well, trip/2 itself doesn't take any inputs 06:36:44 a specific *mode* of it can take inputs 06:36:52 oh, i just recalled 06:37:17 extra modes on base relations will in many cases amount to indices on the bsae relations 06:37:21 so 06:37:22 Ah, what? What is trip/2? 06:37:32 sorry, trip/3 06:37:35 OK 06:37:58 :- mode flight(in,out,out) is nondet. 06:38:19 expresses that you can index on the starting airport in the flight/3 relation 06:38:25 :- mode flight(out,in,out) is nondet. 06:38:31 expresses that you can index on the ending airport in the flight/3 relation 06:39:08 (and yes, as i said above, it would be better to use records or named arguments, instead of relying on argument order for the roles of the arguments) 06:39:24 anyway, trip/3 can be defined by the *clauses* 06:39:40 trip(Original,Destination,Distance) :- flight(Original,Destination,Distance). 06:39:54 Ah, OK, so it is like indexing, then. 06:40:20 trip(Original,Destination,DistanceA + DistanceB) :- 06:40:25 flight(Original,IntermediateStop,DistanceA), 06:40:30 flight(IntermediateStop,Destination,DistanceB). 06:41:20 these two rules (rules and facts are collectively known as clauses) would in SQL probably be expressed as a `union' of two `select' queries 06:41:38 the `:-' means "if" (in the logical sense) 06:41:46 Yes, that would be UNION 06:42:03 I can see what it is meaning now 06:42:21 Although then you will have no more than two flights, it looks like 06:42:29 so the first clause says that one can make a trip from `Original' to `Destination' travelling `Distance', *if* one can take a (single) flight from `Original' to `Destination' travelling `Distance'. 06:42:34 I am involving a lot of other people's intellectual resources on this project, I better follow through on it 06:42:40 er, sorry, mistyped 06:42:46 second clause should be 06:42:49 trip(Original,Destination,DistanceA + DistanceB) :- 06:42:56 trip(Original,IntermediateStop,DistanceA), 06:43:01 trip(IntermediateStop,Destination,DistanceB). 06:43:07 Yes, that is better. 06:43:33 (first i was thinking of an assymetric way of expressing it, but then i changed it to symmetric. unfortunately in the wrong way :) 06:44:00 ok, so the `,' separating the two trip/3 "calls" to the right of the `:-' ("if") here means "and", logical conjunction 06:44:13 Yes, that is clear 06:44:57 so the second clause says that one can make a trip from `Original' to `Destination' travelling `DistanceA + DistanceB', *if* one can make a trip from `Original' to `IntermediateStop' travelling `DistanceA' *and* make a trip from `IntermediateStop' to `Destination' travelling `DistanceB'. 06:45:20 now, for the first mode 06:45:23 :- mode flight(in,out,out) is nondet. 06:45:28 Yes, I can understand that much already. 06:45:46 the engine would probably internally rewrite the second clause to instead read 06:45:48 The mode, I don't quite understand yet 06:45:54 trip(Original,Destination,DistanceA + DistanceB) :- 06:45:56 trip(Original,IntermediateStop,DistanceA), 06:46:02 flight(IntermediateStop,Destination,DistanceB). 06:46:10 for efficiency reasons 06:46:22 Yes I would think too, to do like that 06:46:53 You can do that in SQL too by using recursive queries (something introduced this month, in fact) 06:47:04 the basic idea for computing trip/3 is to start by the empty set 06:47:12 then initialize by filling it with all the tuples/rows/facts from flight/3 -- this corresponds to the first clause above 06:47:47 zzo38 : yes, however, iiuc deductive databases still can make more general sorts of recursion than recursive `with' 06:48:11 the next step is to enter a fixed-point iteration loop 06:48:46 the (original) second clause for trip/3 says how we from tuples in trip/3 *and* from tuples in trip/3 can compute tuples in trip/3 06:48:59 this is basically a join (plus a little arithmetic and projection) 06:49:41 so, you use the recursive rule of trip/3 to add succesively more and more tuples to the (temporarily computed) intensional flight/3 relation 06:50:02 of course, if a tuple is already in the current approximation for flight/3, you don't add it again 06:50:18 Can you give an example of such more general sorts though? 06:50:23 the iteration stops when nothing new was added in the last step 06:52:27 the obvious first optimization to this process is to only combine *new* flight tuples with all the existing flight tuples, and also all the existing flight tuples with only the *new* ones, at each step 06:52:51 -!- blotter__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:53:34 so that in each join, for each combination of two tuples combined, one from the "left" trip/3 call, and one from the "right" one, at least one of those two tuples was newly added in the last iteration step 06:53:46 this is known as semi-naive execution 06:54:17 there are several further optimization steps, often depending on the actual structure of the recursive rule 06:54:44 well, several further possible optimization steps one could apply, i mean 06:55:46 one of these is that, in the case that the original starting airport (in terms of the example above) is known, it is better to use the alternative formulation of the recursive rule, with one call to trip/2 and one to flight/3, joining these instead 06:56:23 that way you only add one more airport to the conceptual (not stored/computed in the example) list of airports along the trip 06:56:52 the gain is that there's in general *many* ways to arrive at a string by concatenating smaller strings 06:57:26 so, the original (unoptimized) version will be inefficient in that it will recompute the same tuple very many times 06:57:34 already with 06:57:37 a,b,c 06:57:50 there are two different ways to built it up from parts 06:57:53 (a,b),c 06:57:55 and 06:57:57 a,(b,c) 06:58:27 as the number of nodes rise, the number of possible ways to arrive at the list rises at a faster rate 06:58:40 (i don't recall whether it's exponential, or only polynomial rn) 06:58:49 (hm, probably exponential) 06:59:05 so, one could consider a query 06:59:37 ?- trip(sydney,Destination,Distance). 06:59:45 (capital letter signifies a variable) 06:59:53 this would be logically equivalent to saying 07:00:13 ?- Origin = sydney,trip(Origin,Destination,Distance). 07:00:44 however, it's inefficient to compute *all* the trips whatsoever, and only *then* join with the `Origin = sydney' condition 07:01:08 (yes, this is conceptually a join. though of a special sort which is a projection) 07:01:47 so, regardless of whether you write the former or the latter query (`?-' is the query prompt, btw), the system will actually compute this in a more efficient way 07:02:40 it will note that the `Origin' will be passed along unchanged between the call to the left of `:-', and the recursive call, all the way down to the call to the base relation flight/3 07:03:19 so, it will internally compute a specialized version of trip/3 that has propagated the information `Origin = sydney' all the way down to the fetch from the base relation 07:03:36 and this is of course where the extra mode (the index) on the base relation comes in 07:03:55 so, we only select flights taking off from `sydney' out of potentially very many flights 07:04:39 the classic general transformation that can propagate "constraints" from the query down the intensional clauses is called "magic sets" 07:04:58 there are also other transformations, sometimes better, but often only applying in special cases 07:06:20 * quintopia dances 07:07:55 FreeFull: if t%(1<<15)==0: c+=2 07:07:56 return (t%32)|(t*6)&(0xFF*(~t>>11&1))|(t*4)&(0xFF*(t>>12&1))|(((~t>>10)&(~t>>11)&1)*rand(256*256))|int(t*[1.25,1.25,1.5,1.5,1.66666,1.6666,1.5,1.5,2,2,1.875,1.66666,1.5,1.25,1.125,1][(t/2048+c)%16])<<3 07:08:07 you can also add more complex constraints, like 07:08:23 ?- Origin = sydney,Distance < 1000.0,trip(Origin,Destination,Distance). 07:09:15 and that inequality constraint would be used to ignore temporary flights that already have too high a distance, not bothering to involve such tuples in further joins 07:09:41 zzo38 : i suppose this gives a starting idea of some of what deductive databases are about 07:09:50 i have to leave presently, though .. :/ 07:11:27 OK 07:15:46 -!- CADD has joined. 07:15:47 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 07:22:46 -!- CADD has joined. 07:22:46 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 07:33:33 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:35:56 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:41:34 -!- tertu has joined. 07:41:48 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:45:56 -!- tromp has joined. 07:50:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:14:29 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:28:26 most of the time i look in this channel is like "dafuq am i readin" 09:26:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 09:58:34 -!- augur_ has joined. 09:58:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:20:01 -!- CADD has joined. 10:20:01 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 10:39:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:56:29 http://www.fark.com/comments/8146474/Ship-not-allowed-to-deliver-40000-tons-of-much-needed-road-salt-to-New-Jersey-because-A-The-ship-cant-dock-because-of-weather-B-Nobody-will-unload-it-because-of-a-dock-worker-strike-C-The-ship-isnt-carrying-an-American-flag 10:56:44 I feel like an idiot, the comments are saying everyone knows what is actually meant 10:56:45 I didn't 10:56:48 til 10:57:00 I shoudl probably be seeping 10:57:02 slepeing 11:43:15 Do you know, if a program licensed under GPL is linked with SQLite and uses sqlite3_enable_load_extension(db,1) then what are the license requirements? SQLite itself is public domain. 12:04:24 -!- yorick has joined. 12:12:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:19:40 https://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C4%93afodtramet 12:21:41 Is there ANYONE alive today who natively speaks old English? 12:22:37 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:23:19 -!- MoALTz has joined. 12:23:35 Wait, this isn't genuine Old English, is it? 12:23:41 "As a general rule for the OE wiki, try to remember the following OE guidelines to give this wiki a consistent look and feel:" 12:24:37 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:26:23 Sgeo: as fair as I understand, it is real old english with neologisms for words not in the real old english 12:41:28 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:42:39 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:51:23 so like the scots wikipedia but even dumber 12:53:01 yes 12:55:35 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:56:08 quintopia: Is that bytebeat? 13:12:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:30:04 http://osrc.dfm.io/Sgeo flipped from me being a Haskell coder to being a Racket coder. With one push. 13:32:29 omg 13:33:02 http://osrc.dfm.io/int-e lists zeckendorf first, I need to push some more stuff to lambdabot ... 13:34:41 I'm also unsure what recruiters would make of making new repositories at 3am. heh. 13:36:32 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:47:53 Oh no: after having that one semi-punny alliterative homework problem title ("Conditional contradiction conundrum"), now I'm tempted to make another one. 13:59:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:35:21 -!- constant has changed nick to function. 14:52:44 -!- tertu has joined. 14:59:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:59:51 -!- password2 has joined. 15:06:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:28:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:12:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_access_principle#Problems :||| 16:12:37 -!- ski has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:13:15 nerds using standard references from science fiction you say 16:25:45 So when I got out at the gas station after driving home from work today I saw smoke from the front right wheel. At the moment I hate being a car owner. -_- 16:26:17 fizzie, any new photos to cheer me up? 16:29:42 i have a driver's license 16:29:57 for almost a month now 16:30:14 growin' up 16:31:36 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:31:46 heh 16:34:26 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:34:27 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:35:42 i mean a temporary one, i still have one lesson this month and two next month 16:38:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:39:26 oklopol, oh? I guess it works differently over there then, never heard of temporary licenses 16:40:10 bbl 16:40:23 first you drive with a piece of paper for a few weeks, then you get a temporary license in the mail, then you get a permanent one after 1-2 years. 16:40:39 oklopol, huh, okay that isn't how it works in Sweden 16:41:05 also it costs about 2000 euros 16:41:35 You do get a piece of paper for a couple of weeks after passing the tests (both the theoretical and the practical ones), but then you get your proper license in the mail. 16:42:08 bbl really this time 16:42:10 byes 16:46:12 Does dev C++ have tools to auto add classes and such? 16:46:16 Or do I have to do it manually 16:53:07 Hm 16:53:08 Let's see 16:53:17 what should I use for a quantum computer simulation 16:53:26 I guess I need a QUANTUM STATE thing, for a start 16:53:55 Then add some spin and momentum attribute 16:54:16 Such that they are arrays of values 16:54:19 For the superposition 16:54:55 Then multiparticle states as arrays of one particle states, with maybe some indicator of the superselectors/commutation rules 16:54:57 or some shit 16:56:55 And since it's a finite discretized space, I can consider that the momentum is an int 16:57:08 Though a big one 17:07:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:09:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:15:00 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:41:24 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:45:15 -!- tertu has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 17:45:23 -!- tertu has joined. 17:47:32 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:51:29 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:03:57 FreeFull: yes. in python. 18:12:04 The thrill of the forbidden 18:12:14 I'm writing in C++ and making all my shit public 18:24:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:28:20 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:29:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 18:31:10 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:31:28 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:36:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:37:35 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:51:19 -!- luserdroog has joined. 18:59:29 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:02:58 -!- tertu has joined. 19:08:08 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:08:56 -!- password2 has joined. 19:12:25 hi, I need the shortest way to set the current cell to a random value - either 0 or 1 19:12:51 in BF 19:13:18 there's no way to do that 19:13:26 nyuszika7h: BF is deterministic 19:13:26 it's a deterministic language 19:13:30 best you could do would be a pseudorandom number 19:13:37 pseudorandom is fine 19:13:39 in which case the better the quality of the randomness you want 19:13:41 the longer the program will be 19:14:06 you'd have to maintain PRNG state somewhere you could easily access on the tape 19:14:23 like, simplest would be to use 1 bit of state and just alternate, but that doesn't look very random 19:14:33 what do you need the pseudorandomness for? there might be an easier solution 19:14:52 `coins 19:14:54 dricoin barbacoin vercoin ozdecoin trianiconcoin aeedius'scoin ()coin dupdogma-2dcoin unlcoin sumambalzbaumiccoin neocoin brocoin xlikecoin snaitcoin puzzcoin basisheadcoin alizicoin tbittcoin skucoin d16coin 19:15:05 ()coin 19:15:32 this `coins thing is actually really realistic 19:15:34 much better than `words 19:15:36 `words 19:15:38 epicch 19:15:44 heh d16coin 19:15:47 ais523, that's the terminal object of Crypcurren, the category of cryptocurrencies 19:15:52 I just need to randomly move either left or right, but it would need to check for staying in range too, so forget it, it's probably gonna be long, not suitable for golfing :P 19:15:59 The mythical 16-sided coin 19:16:05 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:16:06 nyuszika7h: yeah, I don't think it'd be golf-suitable 19:21:15 -!- spiette has joined. 19:22:51 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:32:43 good PRNG for BF is an interesting question, though 19:32:46 perhaps a LFSR 19:33:33 kmc: using one bit per cell? 19:33:38 that'd work, I think 19:33:50 it was good enough for the DVD CCA right https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/css-brainfuck.txt 19:33:53 90s kids remember 19:33:54 the actual shifting would be awkward, though 19:34:04 unless you allowed the RNG state to move along the tape 19:34:46 mm 19:42:06 Vorpal: Here's a photo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140215-mystery.jpg 19:43:35 what's this? 19:43:55 -!- conehead has joined. 19:43:58 Looks like a speaker or a microphone 19:47:08 It's a closeup of the surface of one of these reflector things, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ref.jpg 19:48:34 Wow 19:48:49 That's about 7-8 cm tall, for a size reference. 19:49:02 nice 19:49:15 is this one of those thing which reflects light especially in the direction from which it came? 19:49:38 Yes. Here's what I get if I turn the led "flash" on in the phone the latter picture was taken with: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ref2.jpg 19:49:40 so how big physically is one pixel in that image? 19:50:04 is it basically made of a bunch of tiny corner cubes? i never understood how those work 19:50:21 There's a handy diagram, I saw it. 19:50:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_of_retroreflectors.svg 19:50:43 I think it's more like type 1. 19:50:49 -!- function has changed nick to trout. 19:51:21 Except you need a corner of a cube in three dimensions, of course. 19:52:04 But it's easy to figure out since if you take the incident ray in the coordinate axis set up by the edges of the cube, then one wall will do x = -x, second one will do y = -y and third one will do z = -z. 19:55:05 As for pixel size, in other photos the width of the entire image (at the distance that's in focus) has generally been somewhere around 5 mm. 19:57:08 So given the original 5472x3648 resolution, one pixel would correspond (very approximately) to 1 µm. Though that's been scaled to 25% (so 4 µm?), I haven't really been getting pixel-sharp images out of that setup. 19:58:24 Like they say: when you all you have is a cobbled-together macro thing, everything looks like it's in need of magnification. 20:01:35 :D 20:02:28 If you want to guesstimate distances, the diameter of the inner thread in https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140203-ding.jpg is (like it says) 52 mm and if you look at the dent, you get (scaled to 50% because there really isn't any detail above that) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ding.jpg 20:02:50 you should photograph some mushroom gills!!! 20:03:25 if you're getting 4μm resolution you might be able to identify general spore shape and size 20:05:51 I probably should look at something natural, yes. Not that I think I have any mushrooms handy right now. 20:07:20 Apropos nothing, today when getting home from the city the bus in front had a license plate reading "KMC-NNN", where NNN stands for three decimal digits I no longer remember. 20:07:24 :) 20:08:42 TIL you can declare uninhabited types in Rust. also that you can crash the compiler if you use unsafe hax to create values of that type anyway 20:15:16 sounds p. useful 20:15:37 yep 20:19:39 you know how some degenerate code ends up being primarily layers and wrappers around other stuff with almost nothing doing anything real? 20:20:42 in my experience basically all software is like that 20:21:06 I wonder if you could make an esolang around that, where each method/function/unit can do extremely little by itself 20:21:15 it's called Java *rimshot* 20:21:49 well, no, Java allows methods to do a lot if you just write them like that :) 20:22:15 had a Java project where one method tended to break JVMs because it was too big 20:22:42 haha 20:24:06 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:26:31 (meanwhile, on another floor of the same building, a C++ project came up against VS6's limit of 65536 lines in one source file) 20:28:26 16 bits ought to be enough for everybody! 20:29:52 that's a pretty annoying limit 20:30:49 I think it was lines in the file itself, not counting include files etc 20:31:05 still, 65k lines isn't that implausible, especially if it's generated 20:31:48 if its generated you can make lines very short 20:32:03 amalgamated sqlite is longer than 64k lines I think 20:32:12 oh this is line count, not line length. ooops 20:36:41 the longest source file in Linux 3.14-rc3 is 28,729 lines and has four comments (not counting "Copyright (c) 2010 Broadcom Corporation" at the top) 20:36:44 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/net/wireless/brcm80211/brcmsmac/phy/phy_n.c 20:37:13 it has huge tables but it's at least 50% actual code 20:38:56 vim's sourcefiles are all like 10k 20:39:15 lines each.. and that's how they are "maintained" 20:39:41 They also use this horrible indentation alternating between four spaces and a single tab, for who knows what reason 20:41:26 gross 20:41:50 nice how the comments in that broadcom thing are all useless 20:42:08 FireFly: that indentation's pretty common in older sources 20:42:37 ais523: is there any sensical reason behind it? 20:42:40 there's a "correct" way to mix tabs and spaces but almost nobody can do it consistently 20:42:44 FireFly: yeah, saves bandwidth 20:42:52 I suppose 20:42:57 because the standard is that tabs are 8 characters 20:43:06 at the start of a line 20:43:21 so it's a compressed form of 4-space indentation that looks right on anything but a badly misconfigured editor 20:43:21 Yes, sure. But still, the indentation is somewhat negligible compared to the actual code, isn't it? 20:43:34 kmc: Welp, I took a picture of the screen of my (2012) Nexus 7, and one Nexus-pixel is approximately 140 image pixels wide. The screen is nominally 216 ppi, so... 140*216 = 30240 image pixels/inch -> 0.84 µm/pixel. Though it's really impossible to judge how much actual detail I could get, since all that light is just blobs. 20:43:46 FireFly: I'm not so sure 20:43:46 cool 20:43:58 the average length of a line of code isn't that long, especially if in deeply nested indentation 20:44:01 and the indentation precedes every line 20:44:30 Btw, I've seen that abused in python golfing 20:44:49 I thought Python refused to compile code that mixes tabs and spaces? 20:44:51 perhaps not 20:44:52 i.e., use spaces for the first level of indentation and tabs for the next 20:45:08 I think it either sees tabs as a hard eight spaces, or applies the regular expansion rule 20:54:10 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-art.jpg 20:54:26 vt100 lets you place the tab stops freely 20:56:16 not sure if it has a maximum number of tabs though or if you could place one in every column if you wanted to 21:14:48 fizzie: That's so meta 21:15:16 At least, if displayed on a TV 21:27:28 tabs(1) allows you to configure tabstops too 21:28:37 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:29:58 [10:46] < ais523> I thought Python refused to compile code that mixes tabs and spaces? 21:30:09 there's a -t option to warn and a -tt option to error on mixed tabs. 21:30:24 but otherwise it has a rule to treat tabs like a seq of spaces 21:31:45 (it uses tab stops of 8 spaces) 21:51:12 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:09:09 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 22:11:02 -!- Sellyme has joined. 22:17:36 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:18:14 -!- Toade has joined. 22:19:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:19:56 -!- Toade has quit (Client Quit). 22:20:11 -!- Toade has joined. 22:30:29 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:31:45 -!- shikhout has joined. 22:34:13 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:34:15 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 22:38:38 -!- thrasos has joined. 22:43:36 hi 22:44:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:46:47 hi 22:46:52 `relcome thrasos 22:46:53 ​thrasos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:47:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:50:03 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:51:34 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:57:52 -!- tertu has joined. 23:04:58 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:05:20 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:07:38 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:10:02 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:10:04 -!- ter2 has joined. 23:16:46 -!- Tritonio has quit (*.net *.split). 23:16:48 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 23:18:36 -!- Tritonio has joined. 23:18:36 -!- fungot has joined. 23:22:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:22:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:41 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:45 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:23:46 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:19 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:51 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:24:52 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:25:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:25:21 -!- glogbot has joined. 23:25:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:25:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 23:31:41 -!- boily has joined. 23:33:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:36:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:37:18 `ello spiette 23:37:19 spiettello 23:37:20 -!- metasepia has joined. 23:37:33 quinthellopia! 23:37:39 Tanelle. 23:39:34 if only elly came back 23:39:42 elly? 23:39:45 elly is the hanks of `ello 23:39:59 `ello elly 23:40:00 ello 23:40:10 wat 23:40:23 hellœrjan. 23:40:24 `ello cinderella 23:40:25 cinderello 23:40:34 ~duck cinderello 23:40:34 --- No relevant information 23:40:37 meh. 23:40:37 `ello pachebel 23:40:38 pachebelello 23:40:56 `ello swell 23:40:57 swellello 23:41:12 oh wello 23:41:54 oops, *+ l 23:42:41 * boily sings “Still alone in o-hell-o // See the deadly nightshade grow ♪” 23:45:35 is that like o-hi-o but with more sulphur 23:48:54 Ohio doesn't seem to be particularly sulphurous ← http://www2.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/oilgas/_MSDS/baker-hughes/CD-32.pdf 23:49:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:49:42 except probably in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulphur_Springs,_Ohio 23:59:14 -!- itsy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 2014-02-19: 00:11:00 -!- Toade has quit. 00:12:34 * kmc rages at vim 00:13:16 i recorded a macro with a substitution in it, and the macro was bizarrely broken 00:13:37 and I eventually realized that it had literally recorded me typing :, up arrow, up arrow, enter to recall one of my previous commands 00:14:02 and so it would always run the second-to-most-recent :-command, whatever that is 00:15:36 i don't think that was actually vim's fault, kmc 00:17:09 for a moment I thought that end-of-sentence “kmc” was a new kind of “hth”. 00:17:49 oerjan: how do ya figure 00:31:12 -!- thrasos has quit. 00:34:31 everything is a kind of hth, boily 00:36:20 kmc: Amusing fact. Your registerless BFC borks on LostKng.b. 00:37:36 okay 00:37:39 do you know how/why? 00:37:56 it has clamping cell overflow (which is unusual) and zero-on-EOF 00:38:19 Not especially. I just know that it ends up outputting a large number of strings in response to any input. 00:38:29 LostKng doesn't use overflow or EOF at all though. 00:38:58 does it run off the end of the tape? 00:39:10 Doesn't *appear* to? 00:39:13 I'll check though. 00:39:25 oh it is an enormous program too 00:39:29 maybe it's just toooooo big 00:39:40 don't know what would cause that but 00:39:44 I did get a binary that executes at least. 00:39:46 640K should be enough for any program 00:44:42 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:47:46 -!- tromp has joined. 00:48:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:11:44 oerjan: 4K is enough to simulate a universe, 640K is overkill 01:12:12 well some people might want to simulate more than one universe. 01:12:23 many worlds and all 01:12:32 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:32:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:43:50 what if Canada is a simulation? or even worse: what if only 256 KiB are needed? 01:44:11 `? canada 01:44:12 Canada is Big Scotland. Like, you know, very big. 01:44:21 `? canadian 01:44:22 canadian? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:44:43 i think that entry may have been changed. 01:45:08 like, if the repository browser were working, i might actually be able to check it. 01:45:12 slow riot for new zero kanada 01:45:36 Gregor has a pretty stable connection... 01:45:39 fungot: can you translate what kmc just uttered? 01:45:40 boily: the first big number is the and of the scheme's i'm familiar with, but that's what they're there for a second and i'll get right on implementing it. it's quite good 01:45:51 tdnh. 01:49:02 -!- ter2 has joined. 02:04:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNCOMMON CHICKEN). 02:04:28 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:24:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:28:23 -!- ^v has joined. 02:30:20 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:47:09 :( 02:47:54 * oerjan plays the sad trombone for quintopia 02:48:15 the saddest! 02:49:09 WHY THE SHORT YET FROWNING FACE 02:50:38 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:50:59 -!- ter2 has joined. 02:56:06 -!- guardianx has joined. 03:20:05 -!- guardianx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:30:17 -!- JesseH has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:33:44 oerjan: because boily only gets online when i'm at work nowadays 03:34:51 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:35:02 fiendish 03:47:04 and you are like antisocial and stuff right? :P 03:48:24 Doesn't Gregor run his IRC from a VPS? 03:53:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:04:21 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:09:01 -!- ping has joined. 04:09:24 -!- ping has changed nick to Guest62748. 04:09:58 -!- Guest62748 has changed nick to v^. 04:10:23 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:10:41 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:14:26 -!- v^ has changed nick to ^v. 04:15:30 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:38:19 -!- password2 has joined. 04:49:04 " PT621 him-5(e1490) myIs4 [PKD-2::GFP +Punc-122::GFP]V" biologists need your help to come up with sensible naming schemes 04:51:26 Bike: InChIKey? 04:51:57 help 04:52:14 oh, no, it's a nematode line 04:52:31 ohhhh inChl 04:53:05 it is fully hashed! 04:53:12 philip k dick with 2 green fluorescent protein 04:53:12 easy for searching! 04:53:33 and then you have two more problems 04:54:05 -!- pong has joined. 04:54:27 -!- pong has changed nick to Guest58789. 04:55:02 fungot: i think Bike and lifthrasiir have been taking lessons from you 04:55:02 oerjan: tried to cram cash in without remembering to select payment type ( and cash is the only free var in the program 04:55:10 also kmc 04:57:20 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:58:13 what 04:59:07 hi 05:09:36 -!- tertu has joined. 05:09:43 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:11:06 `olist 946 05:11:07 olist 946: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily 05:12:50 ooh list 05:18:43 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:33:35 `coins 05:33:36 tagtcoin bratcoin bombcoin pooncoin unlolbrokcoin percoin javacoin bisiringtoncoin aflipcoin greturninicoin damcoin rwritschecoin aheiiicoin bfmcoin lintecoin pcoin fithmacoin benacoin iintecoin foodcoin 05:33:55 BOINCoin 05:34:09 `coins 05:34:10 esrrcoin wuecoin ligataticoin thcoin fullyidocoin otlastillcoin betcoin doncecoin computecoin roscoin tricoin cabracoin fonnailcoin machipcoin poocoin suxcoin donaligaterwingcoin baggecoin 0.24coin willgolcoin 05:34:14 how many bratcoin for a currywurst 05:34:31 esrcoin .................. 05:34:43 esrRcoin 05:34:57 one foodcoin and one bratcoin for a currywurst 05:35:09 combined 05:35:10 that makes sense 05:35:15 is this a whole crafting system a la minecraft 05:35:44 oh boy, an MMO where assets and long-term character stats are stored in a distributed blockchain 06:03:19 "I feel as if "Cheating At Cookie Clicker" would make a great introductory JavaScript topic" 06:05:46 "If your infinite hotel is full, new guests should be turned away. Why inconvenience existing guests for no increase in revenue?" 06:06:59 cheating at cookie clicker is one of the saddest things imaginable 06:07:10 set theory / hotel management double major 06:11:13 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:13:37 -!- Guest58789 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:40:34 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:56:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:06:52 `log [`]olist 946 07:06:52 ​/hackenv/bin/log: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 07:06:55 oh right 07:07:29 it's been done 07:07:34 checked the log manually 07:12:17 Now we'll be free of olists for over a month! 07:24:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:32:36 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:38:04 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:38:25 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:47:21 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:47:35 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:53:20 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:25:48 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:29:06 -!- itsy has changed nick to impomatic. 08:33:37 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 08:50:05 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:55:03 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:56:02 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:59:54 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 09:18:21 `coins 09:18:23 cyclicoin cowcoin sebcoin achcoin thersethaxnmcoin this=thacoin alphabecoin bftitcoin athcoin paitcoin thratacoin flipovcoin manciacoin yeologicoin whocoin sorcentcoin snycoin moniacoin verginexteencoin folcoin 09:40:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:41:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:44:18 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:44:59 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 09:46:41 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 09:48:14 maybe it's time to modify that script to sometimes use prefixes other than coin, such as "dollar", "money", "credit", "gold", "zorkmid" etc 09:49:31 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 09:49:53 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:50:13 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 10:05:56 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: brb). 10:06:09 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:08:28 b_jonas: you mean "suffixes"? 10:32:16 -!- shikhout has joined. 10:34:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:34:52 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 10:40:15 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:43:06 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:48:26 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 10:51:21 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:51:59 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:53:58 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:55:39 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:56:52 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:58:56 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:59:09 ais523: yes, suffixes 10:59:13 damn, I always mix those up 10:59:30 dunno why, I know prefix is at the beginning and suffix is at the end but somehow don't write that 10:59:37 "pre-" means "before" 11:27:04 -!- boily has joined. 11:27:15 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 11:31:10 Good pre-multi-A-post-exclamation-H day. 11:40:44 OotS will only return on March 31! 11:41:43 (also, I seem to have lost the new fruit jam I bought the other day somewhere in my apartment.) 11:57:56 -!- yorick has joined. 12:00:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNVEGETAL CHICKEN). 12:35:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:44:51 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:50:41 -!- password2 has joined. 12:59:50 Are there energy drinks whose only active ingredient is caffeine? 13:00:11 Starting to think that the taurine in Red Bull isn't just a marketing gimmick, like I was hoping, but actually dangerous 13:03:18 i've switched to coffee 13:05:08 Coffee is too hot and doesn't taste good 13:05:51 the latter is of course a problematic problem 13:06:20 -!- CADD has joined. 13:06:20 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 13:06:44 Red Bull tastes soo good 13:06:45 :( 13:10:07 @ask boily why is this?! 13:10:07 Consider it noted. 13:10:39 I probably shouldn't have @asked that 13:11:13 oh, it doesn't even say why 13:11:15 boring 13:21:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:35:49 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:39:05 -!- lambdabot has joined. 13:46:14 Sgeo: if coffee is too hot, have you tried ice coffee? 13:46:30 or coke? 13:54:26 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:54:35 hi 13:55:12 could someone explain how PRNGs work in BF? I don't understand how randomness can work in it, without relying on user input 13:58:08 There's probably nothing particularly BF-specific about pseudorandom sequences. 13:59:58 basically, you can't construct a sequence that actually /is/ random, so you try to construct one that /looks/ random 14:00:13 via using some formula that's designed to produce random-looking output 14:00:48 there are basically three qualities of PRNG, "good enough to fool a human", "good enough for use in statistics", "crypto-hard to figure out what's coming next without knowledge of the internal state" 14:11:02 ah 14:13:35 "4" 14:14:00 [-]++++ 14:22:55 ^bf +[>>>>+++++++++++++++++[-<<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]>]<<<[-]>[-<+>]<+++++++.<] 14:23:00 ~eax]4{2YnUsQhM$k"I^E ...out of time! 14:23:02 "Good enough." 14:24:09 (It's just x(n) = (17*x(n-1) + 7) % 256, and I just took two small-ish primes that aren't necessarily very optimal.) 15:02:07 -!- spiette has quit (Quit: :qa!). 15:20:17 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:22:35 !ping 15:22:40 Pong! 15:24:33 @bot 15:24:34 :) 15:25:44 -!- password2 has joined. 15:39:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:46:00 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:30:59 -!- ^v has joined. 16:32:16 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:34:04 -!- blotter__ has joined. 16:34:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:34:59 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:39:31 -!- pong has joined. 16:39:55 -!- pong has changed nick to Guest9005. 16:40:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:43:05 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:52:59 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 17:01:45 fizzie: not good enough to fool human 17:02:22 low bit is x(n) = (17*x(n-1) + 7) % 2 17:02:30 with period 2. 17:05:16 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:05:30 That really depends on the human. 17:05:43 Many would take a look at "~e¼ƒºaxÿö]4{2Yð÷nU¬sªQhïæM$k"Iàç^Eœ" and say "looks random". 17:06:06 if you wrote it as integers it would be much more obvious 17:11:04 >>> take(10, gen(1)) 17:11:05 [1, 24, 159, 150, 253, 212, 27, 210, 249, 144] 17:12:51 >>> map(mod2, take(10, gen(1))) 17:12:52 [1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0] 17:16:12 I started with x(0) = 0, if you want to be picky. 17:16:19 But sure.) 17:18:23 so instead of [1,0,1,0...] you get [0,1,0,1,....] the two are isomorphic ;-) 17:19:07 Hey, at least it's got full period of 256 overall. 17:27:10 fizzie, actually, mojibake acts as some kind of s-box (composed of individual pixels in glyphs) 17:27:46 -!- ^v has joined. 17:27:49 so glyphs from not-really-random character codes can be random to some extent. 17:28:11 -!- Guest9005 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:19:01 Where is gen implemented? 18:20:52 xorshift might seem more random 18:21:17 Wait, I don't even know what language this is 18:26:51 The ">>>" reminds me of Python, and the rest could work, given suitable definitions. 18:27:06 Could be something else, of course; I'm sure it's not a unique prompt. 18:28:22 As for anything else than a simple LCG, sure, but it was just an ad-hoc brainfuck oneliner. 18:28:36 I wish people would abandon bf already for some sort of rlefuck 18:28:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:31:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:32:04 rlefuck? 18:33:12 +++++ becomes 5+ or such 18:33:36 A lot more concise, and can be translated back to brainfuck easily 18:33:37 that's not abandoning, that's adding sugar on top 18:34:12 tromp__: Except that all fast brainfuck interpreters will use a representation closer to rlefuck inside 18:34:27 I could make fungot's bf command accept that too -- since it's already part of the inner workings -- but what about all the digits used as comments in existing programs, huh? 18:34:27 fizzie: okay then... that's wrong. 18:34:28 no; they're alrd free to do that 18:34:59 fizzie: well, I'd expect it to be a separate command 18:35:04 That could share workings 18:35:13 Then all existing brainfuck programs would still use the old command 18:35:59 but much of the point of bf is to be a *minimal*tm language 18:36:17 turing machines are hard but fun 18:36:26 if you keep adding sugar, you might end up with C :) 18:36:45 tromp__: pfft. that is hardly the point. BF has way more operations than it needs to :P 18:37:31 well, mostly because it chose to work with bytes instead of bits 18:38:08 once you use bytes, you like to have both + and -, rather than use 255+ for - 18:38:45 the thing is that having both + and - is not really sugar 18:39:53 maybe i should the point is to be practically minimal 18:39:57 should say 18:40:32 the point is to have a tiny compiler 18:41:15 or tiny interpreter perhaps 18:42:06 (though plenty of other languages have smaller interpreters by now, i think bf was the first with that explicit goal) 18:42:26 a bf self-interpreter with be much harder with rle sugar 18:42:30 would be 18:43:42 not "much". indeed, the optimizing self-interpreters would only be slightly larger (to parse the numbers) since they already do RLE inside 18:53:21 might slightly-too-overengineered-to-be-called-bytebeat song sounds a lot cleaner now 18:54:23 -!- blotter__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:08:27 -!- blotter__ has joined. 19:16:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:22:41 -!- silus21 has joined. 19:23:15 <^v> im making a irc bot in brainfuck 19:23:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:30:00 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:33:51 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:35:46 -!- typeclassy has joined. 19:39:05 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:22:51 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:48:42 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:52:41 `coins 20:52:42 zosicoin writcoin shecoin crobcoin selycoin restepcoin viccoin arrand.nexcoin bensalcoin beltstcycoin nygroucoin vilcoin utncoin mointecoin intfuckcoin fernudencoin sablycoin etacoin sqicoin backcoin 20:54:34 intfuckcoin 20:58:31 lol 20:58:34 <3 intfuckcoin 20:59:04 `coins 20:59:05 hamcoin q-refcoin sponcoin youtcoin schecoin infullcoin shopcoin sartricoin cherivanecoin mingcoin draviacoin bf-sccoin misccoin anycoin orthwatheidotacoin thacoin ortecoin homrodoudcoin perlcoin plucoin 20:59:27 `thanks coin 20:59:28 Thanks, coin. Thoin. 21:00:04 I just woke up and I can't remember going to sleep 21:00:35 Thoin-son-of-coin 21:01:02 `coins --finnish 20 21:01:04 plamcoin capeimacoin soffe7ecoin unocoin hacecoin revanantcoin enitucoin arvoikeampaavascificoin quntercoin bfmcoin kifcoin rejäcoin highcoin mikshakslicecoin farmempässeicoin hulrcoin venänsyinteekcoin harmecoin hydracoin capurjaiotacoin 21:01:20 `coins --german-medical 20 21:01:21 aurientatancecoin ischecoin miaticoin jugcoin xeryticapuirequecoin vellcoin smalexord!cpucoin dageatniocoin hermatisortecoin tesplcapulcoin gaballycoin hancoin clemcoin intcadorningehrcoin cercoin reapongcoin advisioncoin rocerentingchimbcoin hichcoin tachilicoin 21:03:29 smalexord!cpucoin? 21:04:10 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:04:34 it always includes the esolangs and english dictionaries, so that'll be where odd stuff like that comes from 21:05:32 Ah 21:12:41 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:15:51 THERE 21:15:52 FIXED 21:15:54 NOW STOP COMPLAINING 21:17:37 what's fixed 21:17:57 i need to know so i can make up the complaining i didn't know to do 21:20:53 HackEgo's repo browser. 21:21:12 oh that. well, oerjan, ur up 21:32:46 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:34:55 -!- augur has joined. 21:38:35 -!- nooodl has joined. 21:48:19 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:50:08 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:50:21 -!- ^v has joined. 21:53:11 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:55:43 -!- heroux has joined. 21:58:54 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:59:12 -!- augur has joined. 22:12:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:13:07 -!- augur has joined. 22:16:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 22:19:59 -!- silus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:36:20 `coins 22:36:22 itfincoin emblefixcoin sadecoin vellcoin semacoin vantiuellecoin foggercoin xlhcoin skincoin parnatincoin laudcoin attecoin brachefficcoin verghcoin regititocoin thratcoin msgiannautocoin hexamicoin bhuttcoin pointcoin 22:43:29 hexamicoin 22:43:48 SO CLOSE 22:45:21 -!- Sorella has joined. 22:47:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:53:08 OotS will only return on March 31! <-- leave your readers in hell, go on vacation. 22:56:29 there are basically three qualities of PRNG, "good enough to fool a human", "good enough for use in statistics", "crypto-hard to figure out what's coming next without knowledge of the internal state" <-- i'm not sure the second is completely a subset of the third. also why are all the interesting people from the logs away. 22:58:23 (It's just x(n) = (17*x(n-1) + 7) % 256, and I just took two small-ish primes that aren't necessarily very optimal.) <-- a max possible cycle length of 256 isn't very optimal, no 22:59:47 > length $ iterate (\x -> 17*x + 7 :: Word8) 0 22:59:52 mueval: ExitFailure 1 22:59:52 mueval: Prelude.undefined 22:59:58 oh 23:00:28 > length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> 17*x + 7 :: Word8) 0 23:00:31 255 23:00:45 i guess that's maximal. 23:01:15 > length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> 17*x + 3 :: Word8) 0 23:01:16 255 23:01:20 > length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> 17*x + 5 :: Word8) 0 23:01:21 255 23:01:40 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 23:02:19 > filter (\y -> 255 /= length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> 17*x + y :: Word8) 0) [1,3..] 23:02:20 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Word.Word8] -> GHC.Types.Bool' 23:02:21 with actual type `GHC.Types.Bool' 23:02:33 -!- Sellyme has joined. 23:03:23 > filter (\y -> (255 /=) $ length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> 17*x + y :: Word8) 0) [1,3..] 23:03:24 [] 23:03:28 huh 23:03:40 -!- boily has joined. 23:03:48 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMH! 23:04:05 > filter (\(y,z) -> (255 /=) $ length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> z*x + y :: Word8) 0) $ join zip [1,3..] 23:04:06 [(3,3),(7,7),(11,11),(15,15),(19,19),(23,23),(27,27),(31,31),(35,35),(39,39)... 23:04:36 OotS will only return on March 31! <-- leave your readers in hell, go on vacation. 23:04:54 @massages-loud 23:04:55 FireFly asked 9h 54m 48s ago: why is this?! 23:05:10 * FireFly loudly massages boily 23:05:12 FireFly: FirelloFly. what is why is what? 23:05:19 > filter (\(y,z) -> (y /= z &&) . (255 /=) $ length . takeWhile (/= 0) . tail $ iterate (\x -> z*x + y :: Word8) 0) $ join zip [1,3..] 23:05:20 [] 23:05:30 -!- qlkzy has joined. 23:05:35 hm everything maximal which could be 23:05:40 what is why is oots delayed until late march 23:05:55 FireFly: I think oerjan pointed that out. 23:06:05 (also, hellørjan.) 23:06:11 But I noticed that it was added (? or maybe I missed it the first time I read it) to the end of the latest comic 23:06:18 i don't actually have evidence it's a vacation 23:06:19 Thaily anyway 23:06:45 also also, has anything happened lately to the Wisdoms? 23:07:05 boily: the repository is back up! you can check yourself! 23:07:26 (oh frabjous day!) 23:07:27 There's probably a nice oneliner for checking that, but I don't know what 23:07:56 `ls -l | grep wisdom 23:07:57 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 23:07:58 * boily galumphes towards the repo 23:08:00 `run ls -l | grep wisdom 23:08:01 drwxr-xr-x 4 5000 5000 16384 Feb 19 03:39 wisdom \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 476823 Feb 17 03:23 wisdom.pdf 23:08:08 well i'd assume no that the repository's back up, he might want to check a little further back as well. 23:08:17 `run ls -l wisdom | grep 'Feb 19' 23:08:19 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 162 Feb 19 03:39 kanada 23:08:26 `? kanada 23:08:26 Your bankers' vain plazas never nutured no one / And your concrete expanses lay fallow in the sun / And your cities all collapsing while your corrupt mayors shrug 23:08:40 what the fungot. 23:08:41 boily: how's life? i can edit function definitions, but not dns registered 23:09:01 fungot: life is good, but I can't edit function definitions. my cow orkers don't like it when I do that. 23:09:02 boily: does scheme/ do any fnord interps exist?" " have a conversation with someone else about a terrible pun, and it's continuous, will move one derivative and has to be 23:09:27 -!- metasepia has joined. 23:09:37 fungot: derivatives of puns are usually pretty boring 23:09:37 FireFly: only what i can tell the difference 23:09:44 `quote ais523.*reference 23:09:45 No output. 23:09:47 wat 23:10:01 `quote ais523.*obscure 23:10:02 No output. 23:10:08 `quote 23:10:09 789) but i mean i don't like jogging so i wouldn't like jogging while jerking off either 23:10:15 okay the quotedb is alive 23:10:21 i have a hunch i tried that before and had to look through the logs. 23:10:29 `log ais523.*reference 23:10:30 ​/hackenv/bin/log: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 23:10:33 :( 23:11:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:12:27 ♪ ding ♪ first Wisdom entry under the letter “K”! ♪ dong ♪ 23:12:37 `quote dong 23:12:38 No output. 23:12:41 :O 23:12:56 FireFly: the quotedb hasn't been dead. well not for very long, anyway. 23:13:44 `learn K K K Ken 23:13:46 I knew that. 23:14:02 You can't be too sure, you never know with bitrot 23:14:09 * boily glares at oerjan 23:14:29 * oerjan whistles maniackally, then laughs innocently. 23:15:48 * boily defiantly drinks a diet pepsi in oerjan's general direction. “That'll teach ya!” 23:16:05 i already had a pepsi max earlier today 23:16:15 i had 3 diet mountain dews 23:16:18 diet mountains dew? 23:19:53 ~duck diets 23:19:54 People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 23:19:59 ... 23:20:00 hm pepsi max means different things in europe and north america 23:20:14 our pepsi max is like coke zero. 23:20:27 hm well so is ours? 23:20:55 `learn diets People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 23:20:57 I knew that. 23:21:07 I hope I didn't screw that up 23:21:11 `? diets 23:21:12 diets People go on diets to loose weight instead of gaining. It gives them a consistant diet. 23:21:22 "Unlike the international beverage, the US drink's ingredient label mentions ginseng, and that drink contains nearly twice as much caffeine as Diet Pepsi (46 mg vs. 24 mg per 8 fl oz)." 23:21:23 I think I did 23:21:25 I guess "diets people" works, but the capitalization is wrong 23:21:43 `run sed -i 's/^diets //' wisdom/diets 23:21:44 sed: can't read wisdom/diets: No such file or directory 23:21:58 `run sed -i 's/^diets //' wisdom/diet 23:22:00 No output. 23:22:05 Ah 23:23:24 consistant isn't the right spelling, is it? 23:23:39 or loose, for that matter 23:24:14 "consistent" and "lose" 23:24:58 Tanelle. 23:25:08 ♪ diet ♪ 23:25:37 time to watch witch craft works' latest episode... 23:32:04 `coins 23:32:06 physcriplcoin hadzacoin waitcoin uricoin rincoin threntcoin inttacoin zoacoin fouquecoin mutarcoin graelcoin mincoin secubcoin veancoin wercoin abcderlcoin frierdcoin daichcoin plunacoin orocoin 23:33:19 -!- augur has joined. 23:36:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:37:58 `quote 1 23:37:59 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. 23:38:11 `quote 2 23:38:12 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" 23:38:18 that quote 1 has been tampered 23:38:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:38:47 `undo 4468 23:38:52 patching file paste.1014 \ patching file paste.11282 \ patching file paste.11437 \ patching file paste.12235 \ patching file paste.12391 \ patching file paste.12738 \ patching file paste.13150 \ patching file paste.13287 \ patching file paste.1368 \ patching file paste.14273 \ patching file paste.14276 \ patching file paste.14992 \ patching file pa 23:39:04 elliott: http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/b46cdb85e307 23:39:34 i just started going through the repository browser just in case.. 23:40:19 @ask Gregor Why does the (partly vandalism) http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/b46cdb85e307 not have a listed author/command? 23:40:19 Consider it noted. 23:41:41 Because it's my vandalism. 23:41:50 i'd have assumed it was just Gregor cleaning up if not for the quotes changes 23:42:22 The quotes changes were a request to remove a name. 23:42:37 huh 23:43:49 ah i assume the paste files were those which mentioned em, too 23:44:49 just remove the relevant quotes 23:45:45 `revert 23:45:45 Done. 23:46:12 Gregor: a commit message might have helped hth :) 23:46:55 `quote Norman 23:46:55 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 39) It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them? \ 65) Invalid! Kill! Kill! I get that feeling too. 23:46:57 `coins 23:46:59 sivecoin selfcoin worbcoin theccoin bruicoin heacoin xsilaxcoin tlwncoin excelandacoin hancoin tetcoin surfecoin catcoin allfcoin pointre-calcoin rflcoin revercoin waicoin hebeofthisiacoin diccoin 23:47:15 `run quote Norman | wc 23:47:16 ​ 3 36 206 23:47:21 Oh wow, my live esolangs creation is tomorrow 23:47:33 elliott: That changes quote numbers. 23:47:40 so does deleting any quote 23:47:46 I didn't delete any quotes. 23:48:07 but bin/delquote exists 23:48:07 `run sed -i 's/Norman/REDACTED/g' quotes 23:48:10 No output. 23:48:18 i think this is more honest, at least 23:48:39 or hm 23:48:45 `revert 23:48:47 Done. 23:48:53 `run sed -i 's/Norman/[REDACTED]/g' quotes 23:48:55 No output. 23:49:09 `quote REDACTED 23:49:10 1) <[REDACTED]> I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 39) <[REDACTED]> It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them? \ 65) Invalid! Kill! Kill! <[REDACTED]> I get that feeling too. 23:49:37 drawing attention to it is stupid 23:49:41 none of those quotes are good anyway 23:49:46 `delquote 1 23:49:48 ​*poof* <[REDACTED]> I used computational linguistics to kill her. 23:49:50 `delquote 38 23:49:52 ​*poof* <[REDACTED]> It looks like my hairs are too fat. Can you help me split them? 23:49:53 `delquote 64 23:49:55 ​*poof* Where's the link to the log? THERE'S NO LOG. YOUR REQUEST IS SUSPICIOUS AND HAS BEEN LOGGED. 23:50:00 `revert 23:50:01 Done. 23:50:02 `delquote 64 23:50:04 ​*poof* Where's the link to the log? THERE'S NO LOG. YOUR REQUEST IS SUSPICIOUS AND HAS BEEN LOGGED. 23:50:10 `revert 23:50:11 `delquote 63 23:50:12 Done. 23:50:14 ​*poof* Invalid! Kill! Kill! <[REDACTED]> I get that feeling too. 23:52:51 `coins 23:52:52 larioncoin etacoin musichcoin runkcoin iiricoin boatcoin dovicoin procoin self-modicoin dumbelloncoin parcoin unrecoin lizationcoin cowconfimcoin unclujcoin addliffurenacoin bynedoodcoin lingpetercoin nandomialcoin bencoin 23:52:59 woooah... what the delquote are you doing there? 23:53:16 maybe i'll find the perfect coin to make today not suck :/ 23:53:29 boily: apparently aftran doesn't want to be quoted any longer. 23:53:37 oh hm. 23:53:55 oh well. time to excise the quotes... 23:54:09 you don't _have_ to *whistles innocently* 23:54:17 `coins 23:54:19 bestificiendomycoin ferucoin 17s6coin archcoin intercalcoin tosighcoin jcwentcoin acecoin genomereacoin parcacoin guelcoin ersmalcoin condrcoin libercoin p'scoin thyiionccoin fronymcoin attercoin kippearion23coin alippecoin 23:54:28 intercalcoin!! 23:54:44 oerjan: oooooh. a very machiandinavian technique. 23:55:52 Gregor: thanks a lot for the re-browsable repo! 23:57:06 when was it the repository went offline, anyway. 23:57:32 when the bot moved 23:58:04 oh hmm. no, that's when it became out of date for a while. I don't know when it went offline 23:58:18 sorry, i mean, "what's the earliest repository command i haven't checked yet." 23:58:19 `pastewisdom 23:58:20 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 23:58:25 Hey guys, wish me luck 23:58:43 Taneb: «merde!» 23:58:46 oh right it went out of date 23:59:00 boily, my french is not that great but I do not think that is luck 23:59:39 My live esolang creation is in 19 and a half hours 2014-02-20: 00:00:04 Taneb: it's a traditional French luck wish. it comes from theatre actors. 00:00:49 That is just plausible enough for me to quaver in my disbelief 00:01:05 from fr.wikipedia.org → « Je vous dis merde » -- bonne chance, surtout avant une performance. Expression typiquement employée en France pour encourager la personne qui entre en scène, ou avant un examen. 00:01:17 ~duck quaver 00:01:18 quaver definition: tremble. 00:01:56 boily, hmm, you seem to be not lying. 00:01:58 Thank you 00:02:33 Although in English at least, I would be somewhat surprised if someone said "shit!" when trying to wish someone luck 00:02:54 what's the literal translation? 00:03:12 kmc: fr:merde → en:shit. 00:03:16 i meant of the phrase 00:03:24 eeeeeeeh... 00:03:49 oh it's just like "I tell you"? 00:03:58 this doesn't make any sense 00:04:10 `curl 00:04:11 curl: try 'curl --help' or 'curl --manual' for more information 00:04:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:04:17 kmc: it's an apocryphal reference to a French general. it doesn't make sense. 00:04:22 Sgello. 00:04:29 who? 00:04:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Cambronne 00:05:50 `` curl -I google.com 00:05:51 Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server 00:08:23 HackEgo doesn't have direct network access 00:08:33 int-e: you need to use `fetch 00:08:49 `curl 96.127.250.15 00:08:49 Failed to connect to socket 2. \ \ curl: (52) Empty reply from server 00:08:52 meh. 00:09:04 Taneb: break a leg 00:10:03 (sounds like an ok name for an esolang) 00:10:22 int-e: “break a leg”? 00:10:26 yes 00:11:37 i cannot remember the spot where the repository stopped updating. i hope it wasn't more than 7 weeks ago. 00:12:56 if `pastelogs was working, i could have grepped for when i started complaining. 00:12:57 what happened 7 weeks ago? a zombie outbreak? 00:13:05 boily: possibly nothing 00:13:20 zombie outbreak. I stand by my theory. 00:14:31 i see people doing `paste commands, but i cannot tell whether they actually got to see the results 00:16:24 also the repository "helpfully" starts saying N weeks ago instead of N days ago once you go past 13 days. 00:16:37 oh hm 00:17:04 i can click on a change to get a more accurate date. 00:18:17 ok that allowed me to find a spot in the logs where `pastelogs was definitely working. 00:18:22 (Dec 30) 00:19:35 ok CHECK COMPLETE 00:20:19 is 30 December already 7 weeks ago? 00:20:24 yes 00:21:35 * boily feels temporally sea-sick. 00:21:47 let's hope it's temporary 00:24:02 SO CLOSE <-- which reminds me that i learned from the newspaper today that the latest justin bieber replacement around these parts is a finn named elliot. 00:25:23 oerjan: a one-T elliott? 00:25:42 yes, i think so, it was definitely not the same spelling. 00:25:54 also it was the surname. and possibly a stage name. 00:27:24 isac elliot lundén, says norwegian wikipedia. 00:28:09 ok there's an english too, why doesn't google show it... 00:30:52 huh rustpkg was deprecated and removed last month 00:31:39 how _does_ google manage not to show an english wikipedia hit in its first 7 pages of hits... 00:32:00 the Google Bubble Struggle strikes again with No Non-Norwegian Regurgitated Recumbent Results. 00:32:05 (the norwegian wikipedia hit is first, so presumably that has something to do with it.) 00:32:24 oerjan: on my phone, I can't get un-French wikipédia results. 00:32:56 no wait, third hit. but still. 00:33:15 boily: in general? 00:33:31 oerjan: yup. it's infuriating. 00:34:02 -!- augur has joined. 00:34:44 maybe it's the OQLF's doing... 00:35:24 I wouldn't be surprised. those OQLF miscreants... 00:36:14 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:37:12 searching for "geiranger" gave no en.wikipedia hit on the first page, although "fridtjof nansen" gave no and en as the two top hits, so it's not _always_ the case that norwegian stuff gets no english hits. 00:37:29 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:37:45 (this is on my laptop.) 00:39:18 boily: does this hold even if the french wikipedia has no article on the subject? 00:39:37 oerjan: let me check... 00:39:45 (hm. I need something unfrench...) 00:40:01 "brunost" 00:40:15 shachaf: https://github.com/michaelwoerister/rs-persistent-datastructures "In conclusion, even with (atomic, multithreaded) refcounting a HAMT can perform pretty well :)" 00:40:19 I had wondered about that! 00:40:41 oerjan: it has a French version, but we'll see... 00:41:02 ha 00:41:02 though it's not clear if there are any multithreaded performance numbers 00:41:12 ah bin torieux. first hit is fr:, and second is en:. 00:41:27 yay! 00:42:00 it looks awfully like «sucre à la crème». 00:42:36 guess which language google translate thinks "ah bin torieux" is for me 00:43:04 turk? 00:43:50 qc:"ah bin torieux" → en:"well, I'll be damned" 00:44:15 -!- augur has joined. 00:44:18 boily: norwegian 00:44:32 oerjan: here it says it's French, and won't translate it. 00:44:57 maybe it's always in your own language 00:45:10 like gin and tonic in the hitchhiker's guide 00:45:31 hm. speaking of gin tonic, I'll go make one... 00:45:38 also i strongly doubt sucre à la crème tastes the same 00:47:37 they both have dairy products in them! 00:49:26 that's true. 00:51:42 "In January 2013, the Bratli Tunnel at Tysfjord was damaged when a lorry load of caramelised brunost caught fire. The high concentration of fat and sugar in the cheese caused it to burn fiercely at sufficiently high temperatures that the fire was still burning five days later." 00:52:22 somehow i didn't pick that one up before 01:02:33 `quote 1126 01:02:34 1126) kmc, I was trying to go to a sci-fi and fantasy society social, and I went to the wrong bar Wound up at my university's fetish society Didn't realise for an hour and a half 01:02:39 Sometimes I worry about myself 01:03:42 what do you worry 01:03:51 Taneb, I do have to say, that's my favourite quote about you. 01:04:04 That my life is a series of really boring misadventures 01:04:59 Also that I am a terrible judge of how people are socialing? 01:05:24 no, it's just that I'm addicted to surreal-slice-of-life tidbits. like, Hidamari Sketch happening IRL. 01:05:47 boily, I meant that in response to kmc 01:05:59 ah. oh. hm. eh. 01:06:45 Anyway, I'm looking forward to the Guardians of the Galaxy movie 01:11:01 `quote February 01:11:02 392) Cut to February War were declared A galaxy in turmoil Anyway, Febuary '10 01:12:02 Taneb: I would not expect sf/f and fetish people to have particularly different modes of socializing when they're not actually doing their respective hobbies 01:12:14 kmc, that is part of the confusion 01:12:15 in fact i would expect it to be a lot of the same people in both groups 01:12:26 Also, one of them was wearing a Star Wars t-shirt 01:12:30 "BDSM is just a kind of LARP" 01:12:52 `? BDSM 01:12:53 BDSM? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:13:01 `learn BDSM is just a kind of LARP 01:13:03 I knew that. 01:13:07 c.c 01:13:22 Please do not say that I invented it 01:13:24 BDSM definitely isnt a kind of LARP 01:13:51 I won't add that one until someone finds something better. nah! 01:13:59 Taneb: can I say that you invented Star Wars? 01:14:04 kmc, no 01:14:05 `? Star Wars 01:14:05 Star Wars? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 01:14:16 oh, the inception of another tanebvention? 01:14:24 `learn BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. 01:14:26 I knew that. 01:14:36 (btw, I think I gave commit access to a bunch of y'all to the Wisdoms...) 01:14:42 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:14:47 how/where? 01:14:59 the github repo. 01:15:06 I definitely have access 01:15:12 hub of the gits. 01:15:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:15:42 kmc: you too. 01:16:22 i'm @kmcallister 01:16:28 on the githubs 01:16:51 already there. 01:16:55 k 01:16:58 i didn't get an email or anything 01:17:15 weird. 01:17:23 also, I can't remember who sheganinans is. 01:17:49 anyone here from latvia and/or lithuania? 01:23:36 `coins 01:23:38 mandercoin rocecoin sixturecoin uñarcoin beacrippcoin whencoin ketcoin delatecoin bodningynercoin proacoin prefixedlycoin mazecoin 2docoin hearvacoin vershakecoin discoin clracoin marcoin ludecoin chromerufacoin 01:25:02 圓coin. 01:26:03 ~metar CYUL 01:26:04 CYUL 200100Z 29005KT 15SM FEW045 OVC070 M01/M03 A2972 RMK SC2AC6 SLP066 01:26:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:26:14 darn. missed the Negative Cow Club. 01:41:25 anyone here from latvia and/or lithuania? <-- hm i think i saw someone... 01:43:09 oh and e had a real name ending in -is, and was surprised i didn't guess greek, like most do. 01:44:07 Gregor: all this could be confirmed easily if `pastelogs were working hth 01:44:19 (what do you mean i never stop nagging) 01:45:42 -!- ping has joined. 01:46:02 hm jix does but it wasn't him 01:46:09 (and i think he's german anyhow) 01:46:11 -!- ping has changed nick to Guest14054. 01:47:59 oh. 01:48:40 oh i think it must be CADD_ 01:49:14 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:49:22 CADD_: are you yourself? 01:49:28 -!- Guest14054 has changed nick to ^v. 01:49:59 9 days idle, that's something. 01:50:09 oerjan: I now have a Greek coworker, and both his first and last names end in -os. 01:50:25 @tell CADD_ are you yourself, or are you someone else who is you? 01:50:25 Consider it noted. 01:50:43 boily: that's also an option, yes. i'm not sure about lithuanian though, i think they're more -as. 01:51:07 I always get confused between the two. 01:51:18 anyway, those are both indoeuropean languages that have preserved original final -s in many places. 01:51:28 like latin too 01:52:07 also latvian i think, but they tend to live off the intermediate vowel. 01:52:28 *leave 01:53:21 s/ea/i/ 01:53:23 the icelandic -r is also from that. 01:54:11 fizzie: fizziello. can you update the fizziegraphs please? I'm curious to see how my new schedulesoteric looks. 01:54:21 (it was supposedly -z in protogermanic.) 01:58:04 i think it's the diphtongs that clue me in to CADD_ not being greek, in particularly the "au" which isn't in greek at all. 01:58:11 afair 01:58:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:00:54 well. /whois matches CADD_ over to sheganinans, so it is him. 02:03:42 i think agatha's (lack of) plan at girl genius may be going downhill. 02:11:23 I can't relate (yet). 02:11:44 well i'm a little antsy about it. 02:12:21 (i'm referring to the current intermission story btw) 02:12:29 oh. 02:12:56 * boily needs to find a bit of paper to make a todo list to write down a todo list to catch up on GG. 02:16:25 meanwhile, Japan lives in a different world. http://youtu.be/Xdzkwo9XA7s#t=12 02:19:01 -!- lexande has joined. 02:19:58 boily, I dunno, some British ads are pretty weird, I just think these are devoid of cultural context 02:21:30 also norwegian ones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df_EdfcFfFg 02:21:33 we have boring ads. they are internationally known for their uncreativity and deoriginalness. 02:23:37 it's written Fjordland and it's pronounced “fyoolan”. 02:23:46 (sorry, no IPA IME on that machine.) 02:23:50 -!- augur has joined. 02:24:30 well the d is silent and the rdl is a retroflex l 02:24:50 * boily gags on retroflexes 02:25:01 stay away from norway and sweden then. 02:25:44 i guess technically both d's are silent, they often are at the end of syllables 02:26:06 while r+dental = retroflex is a regular phonological process 02:27:08 (sometimes even across words) 02:27:26 helloily! 02:27:30 well i guess a french speaker won't find that particularly weird. 02:27:30 you're still here! 02:27:32 what was that verb again, quaver? 02:27:57 quintopia: quinthellopia! not for long. my mattress is trying to seduce me. 02:27:59 boily: what? 02:28:10 * boily quavers in fear at Norwegian. 02:28:16 BOO 02:28:34 * boily reflexively mapoles at oerjan in self-defense 02:29:03 * oerjan calmly swats boily -----### 02:29:20 * boily is put in a cozy coma 02:29:31 'night all! be back tomorrow! 02:29:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NOCTURNAL UNRETROFLEXIVE CHICKEN). 02:29:46 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:43 lesson 386: don't remind people they should be sleeping when you want them to stay. 02:31:46 hm in afterthought that was a rather lousy attempt at thinking of a random number. 02:32:18 no worries, he'll be back tomorrow while i'm at work 02:32:47 good, good 02:41:19 Does python 2 have anything similar to Haskell's Data.List.nub? 02:44:44 not afaik 02:45:51 taneb: Do you need to preserve the order? You could convert to a set. 02:46:06 ion, that is one option 02:46:16 I think a better option in this case is realised I don't actually need to 02:46:41 Or perhaps an OrderedDict with dummy values. 03:00:29 `coins 03:00:30 soncoin thogiccoin niccoin mieldinginheacoin baggramsendercoin roculicoin renamocoin anycoin dnvcoin autcoin entcoin volungcoin beltinycoin kipcoin unvuchcoin hexcoin pascoin amothecoin nouvenbanjcoin dimefticoin 03:00:37 oh, /me forgot what nub does 03:00:58 we need to get kmc sucked back into haskell 03:04:21 `coins 03:04:23 ruicoin difyinguecoin catcoin lekitcoin blouxcoin bioulcoin bildesiscoin homcoin bam1281coin sylcoin codecoin isockcoin alighcoin sientacoin zentercoin burgcoin hsemcoin gesankcoin tinycoin poundedcoin 03:06:04 another fun thing about the programs compiled to use no registers (besides the fact that they don't use registers) is that almost all data is stored as pointers to code 03:06:41 and many of the pointers to code live inside code 03:11:29 what's the face-first sledding event called 03:14:43 skeleton? 03:17:42 i think that's not face-first 03:17:52 but maybe 03:19:36 -!- tertu has joined. 03:21:34 wikipedia says 'tis 03:21:54 luge is butt-first 03:26:23 -!- ping has joined. 03:26:47 -!- ping has changed nick to Guest86302. 03:29:20 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:50:04 -!- Guest86302 has changed nick to ^v. 03:52:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 04:08:52 `coins 04:08:54 graysixcoin avitantcoin codecoin velatefuchcoin whenemcoin eniguocoin illcoin lafferecoin 988582.1coin anoisccoin allycoin chlunkcoin torthejmcoin rsthamcoin ethcoin lioncoin mourgcoin dotcoin theocoin reactcoin 04:15:19 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:20:10 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:27:42 help. my vim muscle memory is useless now that I got a radial head fracture and can only use my left hand 04:28:00 what happened? 04:28:03 hjkl took a particularly bad hit 04:28:33 eek 04:28:43 fell on an outstretched hand when going downhill forwards fast turned into going downhills sideways fast 04:28:53 on bike, while commuting 04:29:18 damn 04:29:20 sorry to hear it 04:29:32 oh wait radial head fractures have nothing to do with the head 04:29:43 initial results show no displacement 04:29:49 *slightly smaller eek 04:29:53 * kmc was similarly confused 04:30:03 so in 2-3 weeks my vim-fu will be more powerful than ever before 04:30:15 note to self: stop assuming brain damage 04:30:20 yeah... it is confusing... broken elbow though 04:30:42 (or always assume brain damage, just to be safe?) 04:31:04 always aim for the head 04:32:12 * oerjan subtle checks Gracenotes for zombie symptoms 04:32:14 *y 04:33:48 wait i shouldn't be speaking i have a zombie tooth from another bike accident. 04:34:42 Gracenotes: that's just enough time to learn Left-Handed Dvorak 04:35:20 hah. then it will be impossible to switch to two-handed Dvorak 04:35:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1 04:35:50 clearly what you do is learn left-handed _and_ right-handed dvorak. 04:36:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lkjhgfdsa i wonder why this is set up 04:36:49 hehe 04:38:18 hm... Ekrpat Ocmlncuc.e T.fxrape :| 04:40:33 even worse, I am trying to write Go 04:41:25 and it is unforgiving. "Sorry, your program is literally syntactically incomprehensible because you forgot a trailing comma on your array" 04:41:55 "I'll wait here while you fix it." 04:52:51 -!- tertu has joined. 04:55:43 -!- nycs has joined. 04:56:18 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:56:40 `coins 04:56:41 castyningcoin locodevillcoin lotheccoin tegroscoin ctoncoin facecoin minimacoin metricoin wlicoin xenthingcoin squiessorcoin prefecoin ovenicoin colacoin odynredgrcoin hssadcoin ijtcoin revavecoin wherecoin thratcoin 04:59:02 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:03:47 -!- password2 has joined. 05:06:49 earlier today I said "there can even be multiple NP algorithms for the same problem which use the cert in different ways" 05:07:24 (in a discussion about how having a P algorithm doesn't mean you can find a cert for each NP algorithm) 05:07:32 but I wonder if there are any particularly interesting examples of this 05:07:39 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:19:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primality_certificate describes two different kinds 05:19:49 um a P algorithm for _what_? 05:19:59 for the same problem 05:20:00 Peas 05:20:30 I have been awake way too long 05:20:40 Actually, only 17 hours 05:20:48 a P algorithm for an NP-complete problem certainly gives you the ability to compute certificates for any NP problem. 05:21:00 I didn't say NP-complete. 05:21:07 good, good 05:21:27 :) 05:22:06 for example compositeness is in NP, with certificate being the factorization, and compositeness is in P (AKS test), but AKS doesn't give you a factoring algorithm (which is believed to not be in P) 05:22:07 are there sets of equivalent problems known to be in NP but not NP-compltee 05:22:10 Taneb: wait aren't you sleeping already 05:22:26 I really really should be 05:22:29 Bike: what do you mean by "sets of equivalent problems" 05:22:52 i dunno. you can "reduce" np-complete problems to other np-complete problems, right 05:23:15 right 05:23:23 (you can reduce any problem in np to any np-complete problem) 05:23:26 oh 05:23:30 oops 05:23:37 Bike: i think the set equivalent to graph isomorphism gets some study for example, that's believed to be between P and NP-complete (but not proved) 05:24:43 not even proved conditionally on P != NP, although there are some problems that are 05:24:48 cool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_isomorphism_problem#GI-complete_and_GI-hard_problems 05:25:17 <^v> anyone made an IRC bot in brainfuck yet? 05:25:33 <^v> C2BF is cheating btw 05:25:51 google says yes 05:27:06 kmc: btw iirc there's an NP-complete problem related to factorization: whether a number has a factor in an interval 05:27:45 although that's mostly due to the possibility of large number of factors, even if you know a complete prime factorization it's still hard 05:29:20 -!- tertu has joined. 05:29:40 (it's like similar to subset sum) 05:30:03 oerjan: interesting 05:30:47 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:30:52 it's hard even if you know a factorization because you have to check it? and search it? 05:37:40 and can you explain how it's like subset sum 05:38:09 it's hard because a hard part of the problem is, like with subset sum, to choose how many of which prime factors to include to get the product in the right range. 05:38:30 so after you've got a prime factorization, it's basically "subset product" 05:39:07 oh hm well not quite 05:39:13 oh, it's not whether the number has a *prime* factor in range 05:39:16 that makes a lot more sense 05:39:29 subset sum requires exact equality. 05:39:32 kmc: right 05:40:10 subset sum and subset product should be equivalent right? by the power of logarithms or something 05:40:35 well how small is the range allowed to be for this factor-in-range problem? 05:40:36 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:40:44 Hallo, zzo38 05:40:53 oh but if it's too small then you can just do trial division. 05:40:57 good morning zzo38 05:40:59 how are yoU? 05:41:12 oh i guess it's more like knapsack. 05:41:15 I am OK but is not morning time in here 05:41:36 It is rapidly approaching morning time here and I have forgotten to sleep 05:42:04 (than subset sum) 05:42:25 Live esolang creation in 14 hours 05:42:59 Alas, it will not be streamed 05:43:08 kmc: the problem with logarithms is you cannot get them to be integers in a way that works for this problem 05:43:10 do you know what kind you will create? 05:43:14 oerjan: ah 05:43:16 kmc, no 05:43:20 I have a sort of vague idea 05:43:45 (if every logarithm is an integer to some base, then the original number is a prime power) 05:44:03 *logarithm of a prime factor 05:45:22 I don't care if it is streamed, but will it be written down? I would like to see what is written down for such thing, if you have any. 05:46:58 It will be recorded 05:51:36 -!- nycs has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:02:50 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:06:00 -!- tertu has joined. 06:06:45 -!- blotter__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:07:20 -!- `^_^v has joined. 06:12:34 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 06:15:33 -!- Sellyme has joined. 06:16:38 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:20:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:21:59 If I want to pay for a game, but I don't trust them to handle my financial data securely, but they offer a way to pay via check, having my bank mail a check should be safe, right? 06:22:49 what if they erase the number with lasers and make you pay a million dolalrs 06:23:02 checks in the US banking system are like the least secure thing in the world 06:23:12 every check contains all the information you need to withdraw any amount of money from that account. 06:23:34 um kmc, i think you'll find my checks are printed on weird paper, 06:23:44 the banking system is not really based on secrets and authentication; rather it's based on fraud detection, liability, and rollback 06:23:59 Bike: Which is not even a requirement. 06:23:59 wait, where the hell is my checkbook 06:24:10 sgeo did you steal it 06:24:17 You can stick the routing info on a fucking cow and it's a valid check. 06:24:19 Sgeo: you can buy a prepaid debit card at a convenience store 06:24:32 kmc: was thinking of doing that until I noticed the 'pay by check' option 06:25:00 I don't think the company is evil. They're just incompetent. If that matters. (They store passwords as plaintext for example0 06:25:17 i've never written a check anyway, i just enter a ten digit number and then a three digit number into a net form 06:25:28 Literally 1995-era security 06:25:38 the paychecks i got before were labeled with something saying not to accept them if they weren't in green ink 06:25:41 hell yeah 06:26:06 hey unix had crypt() in 1995 06:27:02 And earlier, no? 06:27:19 yeah sgeo said "1995-era" though. 06:27:37 * pikhq_ nods 06:28:16 $24 for 12 months of being able to have a 3d avatar, yay 06:28:25 Yep, crypt() was in System V. 06:28:36 Apparently Enigma-based though? 06:29:07 i hope this means you had to hook up an enigma machine 06:29:50 traditional crypt(1) is Enigma-based. i don't think crypt(3) ever was, but could be mistaken 06:30:15 no entry for crypt in section 1 :( 06:30:21 kmc: Awww. 06:30:33 I still have no idea what the sections are 06:30:52 section 1 is commands, seciton 3 is lib functions 06:31:05 Sgeo: it's in man man. 06:31:58 HISTORY A rotor-based crypt() function appeared in Version 6 AT&T UNIX. The cur‐ rent style crypt() first appeared in Version 7 AT&T UNIX. 06:32:03 *", man" 06:32:17 newsham: oh 06:32:30 7th ed is aprox 1977 or so 06:32:37 So it was Enigma-based. 06:32:39 Beautiful. 06:32:49 "ENOSYS The crypt() function was not implemented, probably because of U.S.A. export restrictions." that's a pretty good error code 06:34:51 -rw-r--r-- 1 bin 1025 7579 May 4 1979 crypt.c 06:36:11 ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub//mirrors/minnie.tuhs.org/PDP-11/Trees/V7/usr/src/libc/gen/crypt.c 06:36:45 wait, when's the epoch again 06:36:49 memfrob(3) is intended as a migration measure from very old crypt(3). 06:37:01 epoch is currently jan 1, 1970. 06:37:19 originally it was different, and they had changed it a few times before they settled on the recent one 06:37:30 oh for a sec i thought it was 1979 06:37:38 Why did they decide on 1970 06:38:19 oh nice, this code uses 'register', i've never seen that outside of knuth 06:38:49 ...actually, it just says "register i,j,k;" with no type specifier. is it int by default? i don't know k&r 06:39:01 That's true of C in general. 06:39:11 "register i;" is valid, if distasteful, C11. 06:39:16 huh. 06:40:27 ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub//mirrors/minnie.tuhs.org/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v3/Readme.nsys 06:40:30 Taneb: 1970 was a clean year number close to the origin of Unix. 06:40:31 and just "i;" is still valid yes? 06:40:32 talks about the epoch changes a little 06:40:39 kmc: No. 06:40:50 IIRC C99 changed that. 06:41:03 isn't it, as a top-level declaration? 06:41:28 Oh, it is valid. 06:41:50 As a top level declaration. 06:41:58 now i'm not sure 06:42:09 can i just do 'auto i;' then? this is important 06:42:19 Yeah, that is very much valid. 06:42:25 can't declare auto variables at top level though 06:42:44 I was assuming "in a function". 06:42:49 sure, i meant at not-toplevel. 06:43:10 Do you know how to pattern match on tree structures? 06:43:27 zzo38: uh, sometimes, what's the context here? 06:43:56 kmc: In this case it is SQL, although I can write some parts in C if necessary to do so 06:44:09 how are you storing trees in SQL? 06:44:32 One record for each node, and one field tells the ID of the parent node. 06:45:00 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:46:39 and what sorts of patterns do you want to match? 06:47:52 Things like, if one node has the value 1 and any of its children have value 5, then match all nodes that come after the one with value 5, is one example 06:48:13 that sounds like something the new SQLite thingy could do, yeah 06:48:30 Or I want to match nodes of a particular type within a node having a particular value 06:48:43 And then there are other things too, and then I want to do replacement on them too 06:50:17 has anyone here written a sigbovik paper 06:50:37 when will iso or ieee standardize brainfuck? 06:50:50 and finally put an end to all the BF splintering 06:51:21 i'm holding out for MIL-STD brainfuck 06:51:48 Do you know how you would do this kinds of pattern matching? (Even if it isn't done in SQL) 06:54:28 zzo83: in ieee-sql or milstd sql? 06:55:47 newsham: In SQLite. 06:58:31 select children from parent where childrens parents are one and children have 5 or are like near something with a five; 07:00:10 What is "like near something with a five"? 07:08:33 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:40:34 I figured out the command to use a WITH clause to renumber based on the other ordering: with sub1(num,res) as (select 1,min(word) from table1 union all select num+1,min(word) from sub1 join table1 where word>res limit (select count() from table1)) select * from sub1; 07:43:38 -!- atriq has joined. 07:43:40 @ping 07:43:40 pong 07:43:45 Hmm 07:44:02 Well, I (Taneb) am still awake. And now I am on campus. 07:44:23 The internet seems to be not working, at least for http and ssh 07:44:29 irc works somehow 07:45:19 dns issue? 07:46:09 Dunno, don't particularly care 07:46:33 It seems to be able to connect to at least google, reddit, and wikipedia 07:46:45 But the connection seems slow 07:46:51 i didn't know those all supported irc 07:47:22 (all those for http) 07:47:55 The connection to the university's website seems stable, which would make sense seeing as I am in the university 07:49:13 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Read error: No route to host). 07:49:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 07:52:04 @tell boily I updated them things. 07:52:05 Consider it noted. 07:52:05 Whatever happened to that small Linux machine? 07:52:15 Which? 07:52:16 That also acted like a gaming device 07:52:39 Ouya? 07:53:08 Arguably, that's a small Android machine, even if there's some Linux in it. 07:53:49 Not Ouya 07:53:55 Portable device 07:53:55 It's got Linux. Userspace isn't Linus's responsibility. :) 07:54:07 @tell oerjan That's more to do with the 256 than the "two small-ish primes", though. 07:54:07 Consider it noted. 07:54:09 Android can take credit for making "GNU/Linux" an actually relevant distinction 07:54:22 As in, handheld device 07:54:37 Open Pandora 07:56:55 Ok, it costs a lot 07:57:07 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 07:57:08 Much more than, say, a PS Vita 07:57:50 -!- Bike has joined. 07:58:59 Interestingly, I can browse the web on my tablet via wifi just fine 07:59:26 I imagine you pay a lot for the lower production run. 07:59:56 fsvo "just fine" 08:00:50 Google should have an IRC-based search interface. 08:01:34 I wonder if any of the breakfast buying places are open 08:01:52 Does 7-Eleven count as a breakfast buying place? 08:02:04 Sgeo, I don't think there are any of those near here 08:02:20 no, sgeo 08:03:27 Sweden, Norway and Denmark all have some 7-11's, but Finland does not. :/ 08:03:57 "For a time in the early 1980s Slurpees were sold in 7-Eleven stores in Sweden, but nowadays Slush Puppies are sold instead." Thank you, Wikipedia, for this fact. 08:05:19 7-Eleven in Japan sells 4 liter plastic bottles of liquor 08:05:46 i live next to a 7-Eleven® store, but i have never consumed a Slurpee® frozen beverage 08:06:04 not even on the 11th of july 08:06:23 or 7th of november? 08:06:43 i live in the united states 08:06:44 "Slurpees, however, returned to Japan at some 7-Eleven locations in 2011, although the Japanese Slurpee machines are meant to be operated differently from other Slurpee machines." 08:06:53 I didn't really know Slurpee® was such a thing. 08:07:46 Also I knew there was a thing called Big Gulp through pop-cultural osmosis, but I didn't realize it was a 7-Eleven thing. 08:08:13 I did not even know that 08:09:40 "The Big Gulp, Super Big Gulp, Double Gulp and Gulp are genetically engineered to quench even the most diabolical thirst." I guess that last one is smaller than the regular one? 08:11:52 so it seems 08:11:56 A Super Big Gulp is 1.3 litres?! (I suppose I shouldn't be surprised here.) 08:14:40 what is it, though 08:15:01 is it just the name for a cup, or also a beverage? 08:15:35 Slurpee is a beverage-like thing 08:16:41 As far as I can tell, the Big Gulp is both the refillable cup and six different flavours of soda. 08:16:48 Well, maybe more than six. 08:16:55 kmc: wasn't that the thing you had that one time? 08:17:51 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:18:11 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:19:03 what 08:19:21 oh yes I did buy some variety of Big Gulp in your presence once 08:19:50 it may have been a Super Big Gulp 08:20:12 rip Double Gulp 08:20:13 i don't know which size, i just remember the cup 08:20:18 that one was almost 2 liters 08:20:59 Google says Double Gulp is "only" 50 oz, which would (narrowly) round down to 1, being approximately 1.47868 litres. 08:21:08 it used to be 64 oz though 08:21:13 Oh. Well, then. 08:21:48 fizzie: whoa, did you convert that to litres in your head 08:21:51 are you the wizard of oz 08:22:02 I converted it to litres in my Google. :/ 08:22:17 I don't think I've ever seen a single drink bigger than 0.6 l (20 wizards of oz) from food places in Finland. (Discounting things like a 1 l pitcher that's clearly designed for more than one person, since you don't drink out of it.) 08:22:43 (Also I had already written a "wizard of oz" "joke" there several comments ago, I just kept being interrupted.) 08:25:08 maybe you don't drink out of it 08:25:34 oh, i think i considered purchasing some Slurpee® or Big Gulp® flavored beverage this one time 08:25:41 but then i looked for an ingredients list and couldn't find it 08:26:34 They serve it in something almost exactly like this http://www.hiwtc.com/photo/products/22/15/67/156709.jpg and while I'm sure one could drink from it, it doesn't really look like it's the intended porpoise. 08:39:48 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:28:27 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:38:45 -!- ter2 has joined. 09:38:45 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 09:59:21 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:42:37 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:08:23 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:04:17 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:09:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:11:11 -!- Bike has joined. 12:16:22 -!- yorick has joined. 12:48:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 12:51:40 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:06:59 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:32:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:39:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:41:57 -!- TodPunk has joined. 13:48:27 -!- augur has joined. 13:50:50 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 13:51:00 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Client Quit). 13:51:14 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 13:52:12 -!- Bike_ has joined. 13:52:32 -!- Tefaj has joined. 13:53:39 -!- douglass1 has joined. 13:53:52 -!- mroman_ has joined. 13:54:51 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 13:59:41 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:42 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:43 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:45 -!- douglass_ has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:47 -!- Gracenotes has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:47 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:48 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:48 -!- jconn has quit (*.net *.split). 13:59:48 -!- realzies has quit (*.net *.split). 14:01:56 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 243 seconds). 14:09:46 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 14:09:49 -!- realzies has joined. 14:09:50 -!- realzies has quit (Changing host). 14:09:50 -!- realzies has joined. 14:10:10 -!- realzies has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:11:01 -!- augur has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 14:11:07 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 14:11:30 -!- zzo38 has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 14:11:44 -!- augur_ has joined. 14:12:45 -!- realzies has joined. 14:12:45 -!- realzies has quit (Changing host). 14:12:45 -!- realzies has joined. 14:20:39 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 14:26:27 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:28:21 -!- Froox has joined. 14:31:54 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 14:32:25 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 14:32:26 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 14:32:46 -!- augur has joined. 14:33:55 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 14:37:21 -!- typeclassy has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:38:08 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:38:19 -!- typeclassy has joined. 14:38:19 -!- typeclassy has quit (Changing host). 14:38:19 -!- typeclassy has joined. 14:38:20 -!- augur_ has quit (*.net *.split). 14:38:21 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 14:38:31 -!- `^_^v has joined. 15:16:24 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:23:14 -!- password2 has joined. 15:48:00 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:51:37 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 16:06:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:34:57 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:45:04 nooodllo 16:47:18 quintopihi 16:56:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:04:53 -!- spiette has joined. 17:13:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:17:56 -!- ter2 has joined. 17:22:39 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:24:45 -!- password2 has joined. 17:27:35 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:28:14 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:28:49 -!- `^_^v has joined. 17:32:03 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:34:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:38:05 -!- TodPunk has joined. 17:40:50 -!- password2 has joined. 17:43:18 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:49:55 According to the telephone number lookup service, I got a call from someone called "Test 3". (Possibly the third child of a mad scientist?) 18:00:18 ^_^ 18:01:16 This issue of 2600 mentions someone who has a problem with a rootkit that stores self-extracting copies of itself in the hard drive, memory RAM disks, and BIOS. 18:03:34 I don't even know if it is true, but apparently "no one has ever heard of anything like it". Apparently if you try to install any version of Windows you get a stripped-down Windows NT 2008 running nothing but BitTorrent, if you try to install any version of Linux you get a corrupted version of ISOLINUX, and if you try to install any version of DOS you get a corrupted version of FreeDOS. 18:04:42 It mentions the autoexec.bat file containing pages and pages of simple "for" and "case" blocks. But, DOS doesn't have "case" blocks. 18:07:08 Do you know anything about this? 18:08:04 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:08:52 sounds like bs 18:10:30 -!- nycs has joined. 18:11:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:11:18 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:12:33 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:13:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:26:33 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 18:50:42 i would be very impressed if such a rootkit existed 19:06:55 what do you mean "if you try to install any version of Linux you get a corrupted version of ISOLINUX" 19:07:00 ISOLINUX isn't a distribution 19:09:10 is 2600 available online 19:12:37 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:35:55 -!- nycs has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:37:32 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:49:10 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:57:19 -!- `^_^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:58:03 -!- `^_^v has joined. 19:59:37 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: *JUMP*). 20:05:00 http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1 20:10:53 elliott: No. 20:10:55 hmm 20:13:45 -!- Bike has joined. 20:18:41 -!- nycs has joined. 20:21:23 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:40:58 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:42:23 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:45:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:46:39 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:56:33 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:59:21 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:59:25 Hi! :-) 20:59:30 Is anyone here is Austria? There's a Core War event happening this weekend... 21:04:08 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:17 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:18 -!- oklopol has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:18 -!- itsy has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:20 -!- AnotherTest has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:21 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:22 -!- Sellyme has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:23 -!- typeclassy has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:24 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:24 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:24 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:25 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:25 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:25 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:26 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:27 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:27 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:27 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:29 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:30 -!- lexande has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:31 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:31 -!- aloril_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:32 -!- trn has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:32 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:32 -!- iamcal_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:34 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:34 -!- rodgort has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:35 -!- Speed` has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:37 -!- qlkzy has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:39 -!- utkarsh has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:40 -!- CADD_ has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:41 -!- Vorpal has quit (*.net *.split). 21:05:43 -!- Effilry has joined. 21:05:43 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 21:05:55 -!- qlkzy has joined. 21:05:55 -!- utkarsh has joined. 21:05:55 -!- CADD_ has joined. 21:06:03 -!- typeclassy has joined. 21:06:03 -!- ggherdov has joined. 21:06:03 -!- mtve has joined. 21:06:03 -!- coppro has joined. 21:06:03 -!- EgoBot has joined. 21:06:03 -!- shachaf has joined. 21:06:03 -!- atehwa has joined. 21:06:03 -!- newsham has joined. 21:06:03 -!- myndzi has joined. 21:06:03 -!- ineiros has joined. 21:06:03 -!- kmc has joined. 21:06:35 -!- Vorpal has joined. 21:06:35 -!- Vorpal has quit (Changing host). 21:06:35 -!- Vorpal has joined. 21:08:03 -!- pikhq has joined. 21:08:03 -!- lexande has joined. 21:08:03 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:08:03 -!- aloril_ has joined. 21:08:03 -!- trn has joined. 21:08:03 -!- Speed` has joined. 21:08:03 -!- nortti has joined. 21:08:03 -!- iamcal_ has joined. 21:08:03 -!- rodgort has joined. 21:08:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:08:08 -!- trn has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 21:10:35 -!- trn has joined. 21:11:41 -!- conehead has joined. 21:12:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:12:45 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:14:57 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 21:19:14 -!- trn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:19:14 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:21:09 -!- trn has joined. 21:25:15 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 21:25:49 -!- kmc_ has joined. 21:26:03 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 21:26:03 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 21:26:05 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:26:13 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 21:26:27 -!- coppro_ has joined. 21:27:25 -!- realzies has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:28:23 -!- newsham_ has joined. 21:29:56 -!- atehwa_ has joined. 21:31:59 -!- kmc has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:31:59 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 21:32:01 -!- rodgort` has joined. 21:32:05 `coins 21:32:05 -!- Deewiant has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:32:10 -!- Deewiant has joined. 21:32:49 dyrcoin dimecoin thenamecoin sorincoin nutivecoin alagecoin sanshacoin lazzocoin gazocoin surrocoin aaaaaaaacoin []coin pumcoin sociacoin rwjcoin blanicoin bloocoin filaxcoin tedcoin maucoin 21:33:25 -!- myndzl has joined. 21:33:37 -!- ggherdov has joined. 21:33:45 -!- typeclassy_ has joined. 21:36:25 >dimecoin 21:36:44 aaaaaaaacoin http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/AAAAAAAAA! 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22:50:43 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:51:50 -!- nortti has joined. 22:53:58 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:54:07 hellœrjan. 22:54:32 heily 22:55:45 @passages-loud 22:55:45 fizzie said 15h 1m 37s ago: That's more to do with the 256 than the "two small-ish primes", though. 22:56:28 ah good spam, i was wondering if agora was back in a lull or if my email wasn't working 22:56:37 -!- ^v has joined. 22:58:32 <^v> im comparing a constant fixed width string 22:58:47 eh? 22:58:52 <^v> in brainfuck 22:58:53 An excellent video, but wat @ the spreadsheet thing. Solving 256·320^(n−1) s = 10^100 years would have been a bit simpler. http://youtu.be/F1CddzgVW14 22:59:23 ^v: ah. 22:59:42 <^v> im looking for an efficient way to see if a range of memory is zero 22:59:43 oerjan: is “pålegg” a real Norwegian word? 23:00:04 -!- qlkzy has joined. 23:00:18 boily: yes, with at least two different meanings 23:01:03 oerjan: I am intrigued. 23:01:05 the most common one being anything you put on top of a slice of bread, i.e. ~ en:condiments iirc 23:01:07 `ello qlkzy 23:01:08 qlkzello 23:01:27 oerjan: that is something I can find myself agreeing with. 23:01:43 <^v> i know i can just have a bunch of "x==0"s 23:01:44 oerjan: en:condiments mostly refers to things like salt, sugar, pepper 23:01:44 except i think en:condiments is rather wider in meaning 23:01:50 ais523: oh. 23:01:52 <^v> but that requires inversion 23:01:55 I think 23:02:05 maybe irw then 23:02:26 anyway, it's on top of a slice of bread, which is a very norwegian thing to do. 23:02:29 <^v> and i only have 1 open value left of the string 23:03:18 `? irw 23:03:18 irw? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:03:22 ~duck irw 23:03:22 --- No relevant information 23:03:42 ^v: the equality comparisons take up too much space? 23:04:01 ok en:garnish also overlaps, but isn't quite there either. 23:04:02 <^v> yeah 23:04:13 hm. mmmmh.... eeeeeh... 23:04:14 <^v> well not really 23:04:24 boily: "i recall wrong" which may confuse you on the grounds that i made it up on the spot 23:04:43 oerjan: tdphbirns. 23:05:07 i don't understand, but i still think a touché is called for. 23:05:21 <^v> ":brainf^vck"(-:>)>[-]<<[<]>> is what i use to get the difference and zero the end 23:05:26 ais523: traditional Montréal condiments include: chopped onions, coleslaw and prepared mustard. 23:06:53 * oerjan guesses "that did perhaps help but i'm really not sure" 23:07:29 * boily decretes oerjan to be this chännel's Official Psychic Person. 23:07:48 as expected. 23:08:50 `? oerjan 23:08:51 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian who hates Roald Dahl. 23:09:14 ^v: what language is that? 23:09:30 it looks suspiciously like a BF variant 23:09:41 -!- `^_^v has joined. 23:09:57 <^v> ais523, its BF but i use macros 23:10:10 <^v> http://puu.sh/73Kiy.png 23:10:16 <^v> ER, wrong pic 23:10:23 <^v> http://puu.sh/73HGe.png 23:10:46 KITTEH! ^^ 23:11:05 http://no.wiktionary.org/wiki/p%C3%A5legg lists the two other meanings as well: (2) an addition, in particular a salary or price raise (3) a bureaucratic order 23:11:08 <^v> "Derp"(+:>) will load "Derp" into memory 23:11:27 not sure what would be proper english for (3) 23:11:42 <^v> it puts each char's byte as : 23:11:56 oerjan: so in Norway salaries are slices of bread? fascinating. 23:12:02 <^v> so +123>+364> etc 23:12:22 <^v> and +1337 translates to 1337 pluses 23:12:42 <^v> it helps me keep my sanity 23:12:50 <^v> if your wondering, im making an IRC bot 23:12:58 boily: hey "matpakke" is important! 23:12:59 <^v> me brb 23:13:01 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:14:07 oerjan: after seasons and seasons of watched anime, I couldn't agree more. 23:14:27 the page helpfully has a german translation, "Auflage" 23:14:59 I suspect common linguistic roots. 23:15:15 yeah 23:16:04 en.wiktionary suggests "condition" for Auflage, which doesn't really fit too well. 23:16:34 condi{tion,ment}. the edit distance isn't that far! 23:16:52 * oerjan tries to read the german one 23:17:20 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:17:57 i'm not entirely sure but i don't think _any_ of the meanings in de.wiktionary fit. 23:18:08 ~dice 20 23:18:08 4 --- Sum = 4 23:18:13 nope. they don't fit. 23:18:26 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:18:36 the first would be closest, but... 23:19:14 oh well. 23:20:16 as in, you _could_ get a pålegg from a court, but that's not the only possible source. 23:20:37 as long as Sriracha and hoisin sauce can both be considered påleggifiable, I am happy. 23:22:30 well they _might_. they're not precisely the most intended referent. 23:22:49 right. something something eggs and salmon and dill something. 23:22:55 cheese, bologna, liver paté, that sort of thing. 23:23:08 (which happens to be samples from my fridge.) 23:23:52 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 23:24:17 also strawberry jam, mackerel in tomato sauce, and cod caviar. 23:24:29 uhm. strawberry jam, with all of that? 23:24:41 * boily is mildly distressed at the idea. 23:24:43 rarely on the same slice, no 23:24:50 oh. thanks fungot. 23:24:50 boily: ( deretardations removing the obviously ugly design of a module system is 23:25:08 fungot: deretardation, as in... progress? 23:25:09 boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program. it turns i broke both fnord chips, or then it's the top level 23:25:30 `addquote boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program. 23:25:31 boily: mut ku ois pakko antaa' would be much better company. i'm constantly trying to extract what should be opened to use define-interface and define-structure in scheme48? i see a " 3" 23:25:31 i recall trying out jam and peanut butter, back when i ate that and wanted to try this typical american thing. 23:25:32 1168) boily: i'll probably stop programming the day i will hit the end of the program. 23:26:00 fungot: please stay safely within your endless loop twh 23:26:01 oerjan: but keep in mind i still don't see ( perhaps for performance reasons 23:26:21 balancing parentheses impacts fungot's performance. 23:26:21 boily: 10 seconds?" s: " lemme check... 15 minutes 23:26:28 case in point. 23:26:34 -!- ^v has joined. 23:26:52 fizzie: have you put ( traps i fungot's code to cause em to halt? how evil. 23:26:53 oerjan: sorry if i can't get gauche to build under ubuntu when fnord is not a ' good macro system'; it is a simple stack based machine 23:26:54 *in 23:27:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:27:38 wtf am i drooling on my t-shirt 23:30:56 -!- ping has joined. 23:31:20 -!- ping has changed nick to Guest90544. 23:32:18 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:34:35 -!- Guest90544 has changed nick to ^v. 23:35:21 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 23:35:44 -!- ^v has joined. 23:35:48 <^v> bak 23:50:29 AAAAAA I HAVE ONION JUICE IN MY EYES AAAAAAAAAAAH! 23:56:43 i suddenly wonder if the onion ever did an article about that. 23:57:36 also this leaves me confident in my habit of never cooking any meal more complicated than frozen pizza. 23:59:29 * oerjan helpfully fills the saucepan with water and empties it onto boily's face ===/^^^\ 2014-02-21: 00:02:13 boily: Try naga jolokia next. That’s fun. 00:05:45 seems like the bhut of many practical jokes. 00:07:37 oerjan: <3 frozen pizza 00:08:04 such crunchy goodness. but bad for teeth. 00:08:08 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:08:48 oerjan: is frozen pizza cheap in .no? 00:09:03 no food is cheap in .no. 00:09:03 or wherever you are 00:09:23 in .uk frozen pizza was approximately the cheapest food, i could get a frozen pizza that weighed a pound and cost a pound 00:09:41 here in .us frozen pizza is annoyingly expensive, buying prepared pizza is actually cheaper! 00:10:16 ok norway is not _that_ bad. 00:10:22 frozen pizza is around CAD 7. 00:10:43 i can get a decent slice of hot prepared pizza for $1 00:10:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:11:00 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:11:17 well, the place offering this near my house closes at midnights, though others elsewhere in the city are open all hours 00:12:41 iirc the pizzas i buy are about $10, but they're not the cheapest, the cheapest don't get me full... 00:12:53 i heard norwegian pizzas are v. expensive 00:13:05 i think the price i heard was ~$30 00:13:26 that would be in a restaurant. 00:13:44 yes 00:14:11 i think the small size is cheaper than that in the restaurant i like to go to, but i rarely buy pizza there. 00:15:14 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:15:29 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:19:35 Is vim particularly likbut tather know-and-peck? 00:19:37 n't really touch-type, but rather know-and-peck? 00:19:44 Hmm, the gibberish that just got typed in didn't go through, according to the logs? 00:19:50 Um. 00:19:55 fungot: hi 00:19:55 Sgeo: then how about assigning ' fnord'. what does. :d 00:19:59 ) 'hi' 00:20:01 that looked pretty gibberish to me 00:20:07 oh Sgeo 00:20:25 It.... seems like it took a while for anything to go from my client to channel 00:20:40 or to glogbot, perhaps 00:21:04 fungot took 11 seconds to respond to me? 00:21:04 Sgeo: i guess i will do when i get to go!! i'm a genius! let me know 00:21:19 pretty quick now 00:21:21 oh, more than that 00:21:23 fungot: hi 00:21:24 oerjan: it could potentially be awesome. gatech, caltech, berkeley and a few other pessimal algos too 00:21:32 Also, what I intended to say in the first place: 00:21:47 Is vim particularly likely to be bad if I don't really touch-type, but rather know-and-peck? 00:23:31 how does that apply to vim as opposed to any other editor? 00:24:01 muscle memory is important for all editors, surely 00:24:02 Because vim apparently encourages keeping hands on the home row, which I don't normally do while typing? 00:24:04 <^v> so any halp with moi brainfuck problem 00:24:18 I have muscle memory, it just doesn't particularly involve the home row as much as genuine touch-typing 00:24:39 It's Sgeo-brand typing, not standard-brand typing 00:25:50 i might chastise you, but my touch typing has slipped and my fingers rarely stay stable on the home row. 00:26:19 I think Bike wanted to see a video of me typing 00:26:24 Still have yet to make tht 00:26:26 that 00:26:33 also as someone who uses vim _without_ using the hjkl commands much, i might not be one to ask. 00:26:58 "home row" is asdf hjkl anyway 00:27:06 (i use them in visual mode, but only because gvim has a bug that makes arrows not work there) 00:27:32 on windows at least 00:33:09 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:38:11 * boily checks his inventory. “I have: one slightly-humid upended saucepan, one onion juice, and one absence of egglplant.” 00:38:20 s/lp/p/ 00:42:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 00:44:16 *♪ sound of a not quite exactly brillant idea suddenly appearing ♪* 00:44:29 I should include that in the next Paranoïa campaign. 00:44:52 zzo38: hezzo38. how's the dnding going? 00:46:22 -!- boily1 has joined. 00:48:26 -!- Effilry has joined. 00:50:28 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 00:50:57 -!- kmc_ has joined. 00:51:03 -!- quintopi1 has joined. 00:51:06 -!- heroux_ has joined. 00:51:16 -!- int-e_ has joined. 00:51:30 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 00:52:01 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 00:52:01 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 00:52:08 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 00:52:13 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 00:52:31 -!- tromp has joined. 00:55:54 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 00:55:54 -!- boily has quit (*.net *.split). 00:55:54 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 00:55:56 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 00:55:56 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 00:55:59 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:00 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:01 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:01 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:02 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:02 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:03 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 00:56:03 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 00:56:04 -!- heroux_ has changed nick to heroux. 00:57:59 -!- ineiros has joined. 00:58:00 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 01:02:01 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 01:02:02 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (*.net *.split). 01:02:28 -!- ineiros has joined. 01:02:28 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 01:02:34 -!- olsner has joined. 01:03:19 -!- boily1 has changed nick to boily. 01:03:56 * boily pokes a random Norwegian, just to see if Freenode's back to normal... 01:12:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:13:56 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:14:12 boily: Sorry, there was a connection error on my computer. 01:17:04 same here. 01:17:15 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:19:00 the random norwegian was reading a web page about a proposed wikimedia TOS change 01:19:13 now food -> 01:19:55 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:23:14 <^v> the only way to make brainfuck not make your eyes bleed is to convert it to whitespace 01:24:49 then it's the paper that bleeds. 01:25:19 You can turn BF to ascii art 01:25:23 -!- Bike has joined. 01:25:52 -!- `^_^v has joined. 01:29:10 -!- newsham_ has changed nick to newsham. 01:30:11 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:35:47 -!- tromp has joined. 01:42:37 -!- myndzl has changed nick to myndzi. 02:07:33 -!- boily has quit (Quit: UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTED CHICKEN). 02:07:35 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:25:21 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro. 02:37:30 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:38:03 -!- tromp has joined. 02:41:33 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:41:45 -!- tromp has joined. 03:04:22 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:15:57 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:25:00 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:25:40 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 03:26:03 -!- Sellyme has joined. 03:27:07 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 03:27:49 -!- conehead has joined. 03:30:03 -!- Sellyme has joined. 03:30:51 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:31:06 -!- tromp has joined. 03:45:09 -!- tertu3 has joined. 03:48:22 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:50:01 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:56:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:07:19 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 04:08:13 -!- kmc_ has changed nick to kmc. 04:08:33 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 04:08:37 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:19:33 The recursive queries in SQL kind of resemble the "for-input" loop in the Wheat esolang. 04:20:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:20:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 04:20:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 04:24:44 Sort of as if it is a Wheat program that has an implicit "for-input" loop with no other "input" commands in it. It isn't actually like that, but that is something a bit similar! 04:32:53 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:33:26 -!- tromp has joined. 04:34:31 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 04:36:35 WITH `SEQUENCE`(`DATA`) AS (SELECT '0' UNION ALL SELECT `DATA` || REPLACE(REPLACE(REPLACE(`DATA`,'0','-'),'1','0'),'-','1') FROM `SEQUENCE`) SELECT * FROM `SEQUENCE`; 04:37:50 Can you recognize it? 04:37:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:41:09 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:42:02 -!- Bike has joined. 04:48:46 https://24.media.tumblr.com/abfd0b7842bb2e9eb96ad5570a85376f/tumblr_n1bwvrkMj51qjr3c0o1_500.jpg up for secrets 05:05:39 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ilex-press/kickstarter-succeed-first-time-a-guide-to-crowdfun only 25% of target 05:06:01 err, 34%, can't math 05:06:46 * ^v pokes everyone 05:06:55 twitch plays microcorruption anyone? 05:06:59 oops wrong room 05:07:01 <^v> who wants to see my brainfuck irc bot 05:07:22 ^v that sentence has some unusual alternate parses 05:08:36 <^v> well here it is http://pastebin.com/kUBUb4ps 05:10:22 -!- password2 has joined. 05:17:05 Hopefully you can understand what this SQL program means. (If not, I can explain it.) 05:21:41 oerjan: do you know how to solve a jigsaw puzzle (aka wang tile puzzle) in polynomial time? 05:26:16 i'd expect that to be NP-complete 05:27:07 given that the infinite generalization is turing complete, and i don't know any explicit reason why it wouldn't be 05:27:22 -!- tertu3 has joined. 05:27:24 and it's obviously in NP for a finite setup 05:28:24 How can I make a tree pattern matching program in C which compiles into SQL? 05:29:36 It can already be done in SQL but since such pattern matching codes can be long, I want to provide a function which can compile a tree pattern code into an SQL code 05:29:47 (Or else do just do it entirely in C) 05:30:56 quintopi1: ^ 05:34:05 Maybe it is faster/more efficient to do entirely in C, but maybe it is better to do it in SQL, or maybe in a combination of SQL and C; I don't know what way. 05:34:36 -!- tertu3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:36:19 oerjan: it is NP-complete. i looked it up finally. but i was confused because some author claimed it was in P in some publisher's weekly article. 05:36:36 and i knew the infinite case was undecidable 05:36:52 which seemed wrong, but i assume i'm wrong first until other evidence arises 05:36:53 ok 06:02:45 -!- chaiomanot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:04:32 Did I just buy an entire collection of Worms games on Steam? I believe I just did 06:04:33 :/ 06:04:49 I already had W:A... I think I saw Worms Blast in there and some memory of it made me want it 06:05:18 worms blast is literally puzzle bobble... 06:06:27 damn, if only i had some kind of influence on my purchasing habits 06:07:06 Oh, that's the same as Frozen Bubble? 06:07:38 elliott: well, at least there's some other games in here that aren't the normal Worms games, but are distinctly Wormy? 06:07:51 Isn't there one where the main game mode is ... something to do with forts? 06:08:26 -!- shikhout has joined. 06:08:34 Doesn't seem to be in this package 06:09:21 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:09:33 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 06:10:39 oh USPS package tracking, you are so useless 06:10:51 `coins 06:10:52 concacoin gibblercoin pogoncoin shogocoin gason-of-unbuicoin wiicoin sorielcoin comcoin dimecoin caucoin con-of-unbecoin fibracoin minkcoin prefcoin tlwncoin notheriacoin bitwiserticcoin talcoin smuehcoin chineilcoin 06:11:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:11:24 `coins 06:11:24 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 06:11:25 cosmitycoin surgasonalipticcoin randacoin gayakucoin bam12coin hayacoin wilsecoin salcoin iscabcomcoin flangcoin ptacoin lo'scoin syndcoin mureheatespacseaucoin dorphinecoin botativecoin superpcoin salagonacoin indencoin scriptcoin 06:12:28 Also, the 3d games aren't in here :( 06:12:43 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:13:01 Oh, there is one 06:13:19 :) 06:13:56 Does only W:A support recording games? 06:19:49 only cellular automaton games hth 06:22:22 Do you have C codes with stuff like this? if(*rule=='#' && (rule++,!is_weaving)) return; 06:23:16 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:23:50 How common are a negative array index access in a C program? 06:29:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:32:06 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:32:06 -!- nisstyre has quit (Client Quit). 06:32:22 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:37:07 -!- nisstyre has quit (Client Quit). 06:39:18 -!- nisstyre has joined. 07:00:43 -!- spiette has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:01:26 -!- spiette has joined. 07:28:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:36:08 -!- tromp has joined. 07:39:01 -!- conehead has joined. 07:40:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:44:32 Wonder if it would be unethical to buy a Worlds VIP 07:44:42 Considering that Worlds, Inc. is pretty much a patent troll 07:48:30 you know what they say. 07:49:19 ? 07:49:55 i said, "you know what they say." 07:49:56 `coins 07:49:58 dyncoin brcnicoin compliticoin prakircoin this=thacoin pipenacoin anousercoin intrencoin destacoin glaurcoin dubicoin bengecoin locacoin funderlcoin agelcoin madnesetlamblecoin ruitcoin concoin biiecoin nandocoin 07:52:10 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:26:43 `coins 08:26:45 sotacoin confcoin soutcoin bachycoin fttcoin simputcoin bligaracecoin fuelcoin dececoin memcoin puzafecoin remcoin ///coin tre-calcoin delmincoin sanncoin iincoin frapkcoin cheddainfursecoin minaturcoin 08:37:28 http://vill.ee/eye/ 08:43:38 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:43:40 -!- kmc has set topic: ...we came in? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Isn't this where.... 08:45:43 fungots fall on fungot falls 08:45:44 kmc: so that's only 1600. just didn't find anything out about it 08:50:31 -!- jconn has joined. 09:11:16 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 09:12:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:31:29 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 09:31:54 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:32:17 Notice the built-in cigarette lighter and the ashtray just left of the light pen. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SAGE_console.jpeg 09:34:47 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 09:35:11 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:35:50 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:40:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:51:51 -!- password2 has joined. 09:53:10 ion: huh, I guess smoking was amazingly much more normal in the past 09:53:49 ... and you can't have your radar people go on smoke breaks and leave the monitors unmonitored 09:58:23 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:58:29 if you have to use that thing for real, smoking is definitely the right choice 09:58:46 because you need to be calm and alert and you're probably about to die anyway. 09:59:26 * kmc has seen that very object in person, at the Computer History Museum 10:03:02 if you have to use that, aren't you in some bunker deep inside a secret mountain in the middle of nowhere? 10:03:19 i.e. "safe" 10:07:48 well SAGE predates the Cheyenne Mountain bunker by some 10 years 10:08:37 they were located in above-ground buildings that are hardened but probably not indestructible 10:09:54 Aw, I was assuming some obscure game console based on the file name. 10:10:22 (Are there any game consoles with integrated ashtrays?) 10:12:22 the SABRE airline booking system was conceived after the president of American Airlines happened to be sitting on a flight next to an IBM salesman who'd just worked on SAGE 10:19:14 "The result was that the aircraft could deliver passengers faster than their existing booking systems could sell tickets for them." 10:19:17 (about the preceding booking system, the Magnetronic Reservisor, after introducing jet planes) 10:19:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:37:05 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 10:52:04 -!- qlkzy has joined. 11:27:38 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 11:38:00 -!- Frooxius has joined. 11:42:04 -!- qlkzy has joined. 12:06:16 I wish there was a way to transfer panes from tmux server 7 to 8 12:06:33 I want to test out tmux 8 but can't while 7 is running 12:06:36 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 12:08:36 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:11:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:11:18 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:29:36 -!- qlkzy has quit (Excess Flood). 12:34:35 -!- qlkzy has joined. 12:36:33 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:41:38 -!- yorick has joined. 12:45:44 -!- qlkzy has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:48:29 -!- qlkzy has joined. 12:48:50 -!- qlkzy has left. 12:49:01 -!- utkarsh has left ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"). 12:51:12 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:58:29 Twitch Plays Dwarf Fortress? 12:58:59 WHERE IS THE BEER URIST 13:13:46 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:28:34 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:46:30 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 13:46:31 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:47:05 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 13:57:58 FreeFull: there's a version 8? 13:58:02 oh wait 13:58:05 I think it's not new 13:58:13 yeah 13:58:17 nyuszika7h@cadoth ~ % tmux -V 13:58:19 tmux 1.8 13:58:27 FreeFull: you can transfer programs 13:58:33 transfer them to screen first, then to a new tmux 13:58:35 using reptyr 13:58:40 make sure the TERM is the same, however 13:58:51 if the TERM in tmux is screen, the TERM in screen should be screen too 13:58:59 -!- hexagon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:59:02 if it's screen-256color, it should be screen-256color in screen too 13:59:32 -!- hexagon has joined. 14:00:02 nyuszika7h: I meant 9 14:00:07 9? :O 14:00:09 brb updating 14:00:20 still, reptyr ;) 14:00:34 Haven't heard of reptyr before 14:00:53 Thanks for telling me about it 14:00:54 it rarely likes to break though, so don't risk it if you run important programs 14:01:06 that can't afford being down for a few seconds or mintwesu 14:01:08 *minutes 14:01:21 I don't actually have screen installed right now 14:01:43 I just want to transfer irssi =P 14:01:58 hm 14:02:04 can't you make the new tmux server use another socket 14:02:42 tmux -L foo 14:11:28 -!- nyuszika7h has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.4-dev). 14:20:39 -!- password2 has joined. 14:27:47 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 14:27:58 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 14:27:58 -!- quintopia has joined. 15:09:16 -!- CADD_ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:09:44 -!- conehead__ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:15:32 -!- typeclassy has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 15:26:48 I have a copy of a key, which fits, and it turns, but fails to lock or unlock the door. I compared it with the original, and it matches, and the original key works. Do you know what is wrong? 15:28:53 How do you know it matches 15:30:57 Because I compared it very carefully 15:31:21 By lookin'? 15:31:38 It is possible that a different of a micron might not work 15:33:52 By looking, yes 16:07:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:27:17 zzo38: the usual method is the return the key to where you've had it copied and demand a new copy, but make sure the template you're copying from is an original, not a copy 16:31:27 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:51:27 b_jonas: OK 17:02:35 -!- blotter has joined. 17:10:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:14:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:18:34 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:20:55 Some people say the flippers make a pinball game skillful. That isn't true; while there is skill involved in effectively using the flippers, that isn't what makes the game skilful. 17:21:25 The skill is finding a job to get the money to put inside 17:22:06 Yes, that is what some people say too, but that has nothing to do with a pinball game. 17:23:04 If you own a pinball table, you may not need to put a coin (and if you do, you can get it back). 17:44:50 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 17:46:34 -!- Sellyme has joined. 17:50:58 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:52:53 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:53:56 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 17:55:03 -!- Sellyme has joined. 18:01:37 -!- blotter has joined. 18:08:46 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:11:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:11:58 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:14:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:14:41 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:26:41 https://github.com/mame/radiation-hardened-quine 18:26:58 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:30:28 finally 18:40:47 -!- blotter has joined. 18:42:58 zzo38: what makes it skillful then? 18:43:45 zzo38: what do you think of Twitch Plays Pokémon? 18:43:54 fungot: what do you think of Twitch Plays Pokémon? 18:43:54 kmc: i thought optimistic/ pessimistic concurrency was an implementation that doesn't have to 18:44:10 democracy!! 18:44:23 anarchy!! 18:45:04 -!- chaiomanot_ has joined. 18:48:17 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:48:59 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:49:23 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:49:28 -!- conehead has joined. 18:50:33 start9 18:50:33 start9 18:50:33 start9 18:50:34 start9 18:50:35 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:50:39 :D 18:50:44 `coins 18:50:45 aeocoin singcoin 5-logiccoin thinecoin clocoin jugglyphoboldcoin flaneurcoin meanycoin chacoin pathcoin nicecoin hydracoin bf-derosicoin landballcoin hevavecoin bitzogtcoin cobbycoin conicoin gola/mcoin inftabllcoin 19:01:46 -!- blotter has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:10:20 -!- realzies has quit (Quit: realzies). 19:13:24 kmc: I don't know "Twitch Plays Pokemon", so I don't think of it. 19:17:17 -!- realzies has joined. 19:17:51 -!- realz has joined. 19:31:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:40:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:41:23 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: No route to host). 19:44:09 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:57:34 -!- realz has quit (Quit: realz). 20:04:34 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:10:40 zzo38: do you want to learn of it? 20:14:18 -!- FireFly has joined. 20:17:09 somebody has written on the chalkboard in the maths department "3987^12 + 4365^12 = 4472^12" 20:17:45 > 3987^12 + 4365^12 == 4472^12 20:17:47 False 20:18:00 :t (^) 20:18:00 lambdabot: well, fuck you 20:18:01 (Integral b, Num a) => a -> b -> a 20:18:13 lambdabot: nevermind, problem's on my end 20:18:23 i mean, clearly it's false since 12 > 2 20:18:38 are you sure that 12 > 2 20:18:52 kmc: No I am not much interested at the present time 20:19:38 :t ((^), (^^), (**)) 20:19:39 (Floating a2, Fractional a1, Integral b, Integral b1, Num a) => (a -> b -> a, a1 -> b1 -> a1, a2 -> a2 -> a2) 20:19:45 good type 20:19:49 yes 20:19:51 :t True 20:19:52 Bool 20:19:58 :t Bool 20:19:59 Not in scope: data constructor `Bool' 20:20:02 :k Bool 20:20:03 * 20:20:07 `relcome chaiomanot_ 20:20:08 ​chaiomanot_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:20:11 ack 20:20:25 `relcome kmc 20:20:25 ​kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:20:56 :k True 20:20:58 Not in scope: type constructor or class `True' 20:20:58 A data constructor of that name is in scope; did you mean -XDataKinds? 20:20:58 Perhaps you meant `Tree' (imported from Data.Tree) 20:21:16 `run echo '3987 12^ 4365 12^+ 4472 12^-n' | dc 20:21:17 1211886809373872630985912112862690 20:21:29 see lambdabot, you're why i don't like static typing 20:21:34 (I guess that's p. close?) 20:21:35 lol 20:21:43 Bool is a type, so it has a kind, not a type. True is a value, so it has a type, not a kind 20:21:57 unless you use DataKinds hth 20:22:00 i know, but :t Bool should return Type, not an error! 20:22:00 keeping straight which things are types and which ones aren't is why you don't like static typing? 20:22:08 shachaf: look, shut up :( 20:22:10 chaiomanot_: it would with dependent types 20:22:24 so the problem is that Haskell isn't all the way in the deep end of statically typed :) 20:22:31 well fair enough 20:22:32 Bike: oh, wait, someone was actually getting things mixed up, never mind 20:22:34 i hear making type a type makes all hell break loose 20:22:45 something about barbers maybe 20:22:50 yeah it's dodgy 20:22:53 it's not so bad imo 20:22:57 usually you have like Set : Set1 : Set2 : ... 20:23:01 `run echo '3987 12^ 4365 12^+ 4472 12^ f' | dc 20:23:02 63976656348486725806862358322168575784124416 \ 63976656349698612616236230953154487896987106 20:23:22 shachaf: do you know idris? should i learn idris? 20:23:32 fizzie: oh that does seem close 20:23:37 kmc: i don't know either one 20:23:52 kmc: were you at edwinb's talk about it a couple of years ago? 20:23:55 you don't know whether you know idris? 20:23:57 i wasn't 20:23:59 Bike: It's close if you're all floating point. 20:24:01 in boston 20:24:16 it was a good talk 20:24:21 octave:1> (3987^12 + 4365^12)^(1/12) 20:24:21 ans = 4472.0 20:24:43 oh. 20:24:44 * kmc imagines a Flappy Bird clone named Floaty Point 20:26:09 fucking unstable internet 20:26:22 kmc: you should learn it and then tell me 20:28:37 ok 20:29:04 error: aborting due to 7452 previous errors 20:29:24 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:33:15 -!- Bike has joined. 20:33:48 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:34:41 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 20:47:14 Join to #esoteric was synced in 464 secs 20:48:12 speedy 20:48:13 `coins 20:48:14 arrocoin hartransomskjcoin orthcoin elorifidcoin .yachectcoin temparcoin formylecoin proogucoin pyriacoin burecoin zowiercoin braincoin cobospeacoin triacoin puccinforcoin elfcoin rococoin prdcatcoin waduzicoin yourcomcoin 20:53:20 kmc: What are you using all these coins for? 20:53:27 flipping 21:03:44 http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/harvard-supercomputing-cluster-hijacked-to-produce-alt-cryptocurrency/ student steals supercomputer for doges 21:07:26 :D 21:09:56 soon we'll hear about tsmc facilities being hijacked to make miner asics 21:10:13 kmc: should i learn idris and/or rust 21:10:45 probably 21:13:59 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:14:35 -!- chaiomanot_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:16:55 if i define FOO=/some/path in bash, can i get tab completion for $FOO/? 21:23:34 ATTRIBUTE_NAMES[574] = ATTR_VERYVERYTHICKMATHSPACE; 21:29:16 Pokemon cards GUST OF WIND is mainly useful to switch into opponent's cards having high retreat cost, especially to me. Often even if they are resisted to me, it is more helpful. 21:29:30 Do you think so too? 21:43:55 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in). 21:44:09 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 21:52:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:57:56 -!- CADD has joined. 21:58:08 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 21:58:51 -!- impomatic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:01:03 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:10:58 Curiosity question: has anything used a 2x2 RGGB Bayer pattern in a display instead of a sensor? 22:12:05 the XO-1 screen is... not a Bayer pattern, but weird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:XO_screen_01_Pengo.jpg 22:12:32 It's pretty close to a Bayer pattern. 22:12:42 it has the same density of all three colors. they're just in diagonal stripes 22:12:46 it takes a second to see it 22:12:47 Right. 22:12:52 Yes, it did take a second. 22:13:13 Now that you mention that, I think I vaguely recall some other "odd" arrangement. 22:13:15 they did this in order to use a single diffraction grating instead of a lot of filters 22:13:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile ? 22:13:40 Right. 22:17:34 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:28:20 Interesting asides found while Googling for this: a downsampling algorithm that goes directly from a Bayer-pattern sensor image to a RGB subpixel screen image, that's supposedly better than doing a traditional demosaicing and then downsampling that disregards the subpixel layout information. 22:34:31 nice 22:34:47 you could use that for viewing RAW images on LCD monitors 22:39:00 The suggested use was for camera viewfinders and screens, since they have to show a downscaled "live view" image. 22:39:31 * kmc has 5 GB of RAW files so far and has done exactly nothing with them 22:39:43 fizzie: ah, good 22:40:03 * kmc has a MILC with an impressive OLED viewfinder 22:40:34 Does it have 2.36 megadots? 22:40:50 seems so 22:41:06 That seems to be the norm for modern high-end thingies. 22:41:24 It's also really strange that EVF and camera screen resolutions are given in terms of subpixel counts, while everywhere else displays count full pixels. 22:41:36 They must've gotten that from the way sensor resolutions are counted. 22:42:23 (Like that "2.36 million dots", that's 1024*768*3.) 22:42:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:42:43 aha 22:43:31 My old non-ILC zoomy-woomy camera has a 188 kilodot EVF. 22:43:36 That's significantly less impressive. 22:53:48 -!- jconn has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:56:53 -!- boily has joined. 22:56:56 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:57:57 bleeeeeeeeeerghhh... 22:58:34 hello helloily 22:59:07 hello Bikello 22:59:15 h'oily boily 22:59:24 hello hellolsner 22:59:39 (or is it olsnello?) 22:59:43 someone claimed to have made some progress on the voynich manuscript 23:00:00 エェ?本当? 23:00:03 two separate someones! 23:00:05 who will win 23:00:13 `quote Newcastle 23:00:13 960) it's raining in newcastle, therefore the elliotts are distinct. boily's Newcastle Theorem. 23:00:17 ~metar CYUL 23:00:17 CYUL 212252Z 21013KT 15SM SCT060 BKN085 02/00 A2968 RMK SC4AC3 SLP053 23:00:31 ~metar EGNT 23:00:32 EGNT 212250Z 23010KT 200V270 9999 FEW018 BKN023 05/03 Q0990 23:01:00 ~metar EFHK 23:01:00 EFHK 212250Z 11010KT 9999 BKN006 00/M01 Q1006 TEMPO 6000 -SN 23:01:05 Bike: as it isn't raining, we don't have proof that there are at least two different people on Earth to claim voynich-progress. 23:01:12 Some TEMPO -SN. 23:01:17 (I referred to this someone http://stephenbax.net/) 23:01:37 ~metar ESSA 23:01:38 ESSA 212250Z 22005KT 2500 BR OVC002 03/02 Q0998 R01L/29//95 R01R/29//95 R08/29//95 TEMPO 1400 23:02:49 now I will read a book 23:05:58 What is the meaning of R01L/29//95 ? 23:08:10 FireFly: those are runway conditions. 10° leftmost runway, something something, surface conditions. 23:08:15 `coins 23:08:17 peochallcoin scutomousedagonalietcoin linearassurbecoin dnrandreimacrocoin clotacoin poinecoin claitafncoin wormcoin isairicoin selliicoin sobufcoin moniacoin didecoin blackcoin finicoin hapylicoin hydromcoin objectioncalculacoin quecoin halfcoin 23:08:44 FireFly: I never can remember what the magic numbers mean. 23:09:00 boily: I see, okay 23:09:05 kmc: is it me, or are the coin names getting sillier and sillier? 23:09:30 Invest in poinecoin! 23:10:17 I want a bunch of Quécoins! 23:11:04 `coins --swedish 23:11:06 truecoin 23:11:14 `coins --swedish 20 23:11:16 hommapcoin legidcoin ronecoin smitrevelancoin årlitticoin ardigfillcoin sigacoin intercoin zelcoin @coin mazulecoin tainscoin uncitierdcoin phinecoin pericoin mumonkelxxviiiudgecoin brakapebatocoin datiblemcoin forraphcoin krylcoin 23:11:31 `coins --french 20 23:11:34 xaincoin 4dlcoin mannstatcoin spironcoin bestantcoin nourvoudcoin eibercicoin haicoin distrancoin graycoin maigecoin sucorpocoin posiicoin brazdcoin embestacoin versenencoin strustitlcoin pingcoin bubbecoin madnscoin 23:12:10 `coins --japanese 20 23:12:12 Unknown option: japanese 23:12:20 * boily mapoles HackEgo 23:12:27 `words --help 23:12:28 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 23:12:35 `words -l 23:12:36 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 23:12:49 manx but not japanese? 23:12:55 `coins --manx 20 23:12:56 chocoin lo'reravacoin capcoin sanidcoin thummillanencoin shagogcoin ghkincoin luttolercoin physidcoin anumecoin sadolcoin sacriburtcoin bircoin virusthograishcoin lengersecoin shellcoin braghcoin onotacoin eddenncoin nylcoin 23:13:44 `coins --hebrew 20 23:13:47 ​והבדcoin wollencoin unshilaxcoin geolacoin hq9+coin desedjametaligeunstaquecogsbycoin בסבורסטיcoin שהתאניcoin regxcoin epingcoin וההיאהוזיטוראcoin youarecoin alldecoin albocoin שנסתcoin ומהcoin immicoin ובחושcoin exelcoin לקערובצהcoin 23:14:04 wow. 23:14:11 I don't think hq9+ is valid hebrew... 23:14:12 let's just stick with that one 23:14:30 shachaf: your opinion on --hebres? 23:15:10 `words --hebrew --german-medical 20 23:15:12 subkorpolyt psorisch הוצא בהכלכלה בנחח gast מין ומסירוס לסליקצבי dihydran סקרנב tasoleucin ארנד עוקליסטו sonsweit trikum למעמדתו sequenzele שבאיזודי שהנשמרניש 23:15:29 Those datasets might not blend very well together.. 23:15:52 and... uhm.. --canadian-english-insane??? 23:16:01 `coins --canadian-english-insane 20 23:16:03 irngcoin enedcoin abetacoin cursioncoin vvlercoin kelitafncoin lockcoin uncomcoin ouviacoin myxomcoin tifcoin ferncoin wuttycoin wjyothcoin melshowcoin rposcoin fielcoin durecoin midecoin unrepushedromecoin 23:16:15 Well, the last part is implied by 'canadian', isn't it? 23:16:20 i think the -insane just means the volume. 23:17:06 you wutty vvler that you are, you unrepushedrome person. 23:17:42 Very wutty. 23:18:52 ~duck vvler 23:18:53 --- No relevant information 23:20:35 ~duck Vyers 23:20:35 --- No relevant information 23:22:07 -!- chaiomanot_ has joined. 23:22:43 Insanadian is unduckable. 23:22:49 `relcome chaiomanot_ 23:22:50 ​chaiomanot_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:23:07 (ah, it's been a long time since I've `relcomed someone new!) 23:23:14 `relcome boily 23:23:14 `relcome boily 23:23:15 ​boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:23:15 ​boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:23:19 (and ooooh, I do have nice term colours here.) 23:23:36 chaiomanot_: were you already `relcomed? I kinda disappeared from the channel lately. 23:24:00 4 times now :-P 23:24:17 ah! :D 23:24:25 there are a lot of ppl here, how do you know i'm new? 23:25:11 my Instincts, Gut Feelings, and Because I Decided So as thinking is too hard at this time of the day. 23:25:25 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:25:47 lol 23:26:03 im surprised you guys dont just have hackego do it automatically 23:26:11 too logical. 23:26:16 ha 23:26:37 Too easy 23:26:37 I mean, a solution obviously exists, so solving the problem is trivial. 23:26:52 exactly 23:27:02 crazy part is know what you mean 23:27:34 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:33:46 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:34:08 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:34:56 impellomatic. Sgello. 23:35:04 Tanelle, Quinthellopia. 23:42:39 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:42:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:49:54 hellørjan! 23:50:05 (tonight is a very welcommy night!) 23:50:59 jóily napot 23:52:37 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:57:45 -!- nisstyre has joined. 2014-02-22: 00:00:51 nyuszika7h@cadoth ~ % tmux -V <-- i take it is a bad sign that my tmux doesn't understand that option. 00:01:10 hi boily 00:01:21 congrats on jockey 00:01:27 (pronounce that spanishly) 00:01:37 which means i don't know what my version is, i guess 00:02:44 quintopia: it was noisy in the lunchroom today! 00:02:54 boily: i bet it was 00:06:11 https://github.com/mame/radiation-hardened-quine <-- hmph, for realism it should work if any one character was _changed_ 00:06:51 boily: meanwhile in USA olympic news, ashley wagner is a total bitch. she skates really well and then bitches about the judging, making her country look bad by association. hope they don't let her back on the team. 00:07:22 oerjan: but only by one ASCII bit, right? :) 00:07:33 error correction memory exists, though. i wonder if anyone's managed to make a "radiation-hardened" _cpu_ which works if any internal register bit is flipped 00:07:53 kmc: well that would probably be enough in most cases 00:08:11 quintopia: sorry, can't hear you over the Glorious Awesomeness of our athletes :P 00:08:39 (hm. I can buy a distressingly furry gold dragon armour for 5620 gold pieces...) 00:08:42 i suppose if you get enough radiation that you risk _two_ bits in one byte being changed, you're in deep shit anyhow. 00:08:49 boily: meanwhile, our norwegian has not a thing to say about his country's ten gold medals (or more now?) 00:08:56 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:09:13 come back in, shikhout! 00:09:21 except that it's sort of logical that a particle might effect more than one bit in a region of a chip, maybe? 00:09:22 oerjan: that sounds like a fun challenge 00:10:54 quintopia: i don't want to brag you know. i read in the paper that bjørgen was close to getting the record for most medals for a woman (and i might already get it anyhow because the current holder was accused of doping) 00:11:29 (also i don't really follow the games fanatically, i just get what it says in the paper) 00:11:40 *some of 00:12:03 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:12:04 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:13:05 quintopia: in the beginning us norwegians were mostly shocked about not being able to get the skis properly prepared... 00:13:18 but i understand that has improved as the weather cooled 00:13:54 oerjan: it is kind of unfair to ask people used to skiing on perfect snow to learn to water ski on the fly 00:14:04 quintopia: you'd think 00:15:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:16:38 also *-i how did that get there 00:16:57 * oerjan isn't getting any olympic medals 00:19:04 -!- chaiomanot_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:19:59 > (3987**12 + 4365**12, 4472**12) 00:20:01 (6.397665634969862e43,6.397665634848672e43) 00:20:25 > (3987^12 + 4365^12 - 4472^12) 00:20:27 1211886809373872630985912112862690 00:21:12 it's that "close enough to work on a calculator display" kind, i take. 00:23:59 boily: so when does this job of yours let you vacation. how much? 00:27:16 oerjan: Yeah, doesn't work with standard floating point 00:27:20 quintopia: two weeks per year, starting the first year I work there. 00:27:30 Depends on you using the decimal floating point of calculators 00:27:38 [...] rococoin [...] <-- i expect that one to by highly embellished 00:27:52 rocococococoin 00:27:56 boily: so you have to work a year before you get it or? 00:28:16 > (3987^12 + 4365^12 == (4472^12::Float)) 00:28:17 True 00:28:33 FreeFull: depends whih standard hth 00:28:36 *+c 00:28:39 Oh, I suppose Float is imprecise enough 00:28:44 But Double definitely isn't 00:28:55 *be 00:29:06 WHAT IS HAPPENING TO BY SMELLING 00:29:16 quintopia: I can vacate in 2014 :D 00:29:47 oerjan: seems like you have a cold 00:29:55 the good news is he can vacate in 2014. the bad news is his employer is muslim. 00:30:07 boily: yay! wanna vacation together? :P 00:31:10 oerjan: my employer is muslim? 00:31:22 quintopia: probably not before september. 00:31:56 boily: yep, it's year 2014 after mohammed's (peace be upon him!) move to medina hth 00:32:27 oerjan: aaaaah (← I understand.) AAAAAAAAAAAAH! (← I'll probably be dead by then.) 00:32:53 boily: it's ok you can get a vacation before if you go on hajj 00:35:03 oerjan: but quintopia'll have to hajj with me! 00:35:31 i don't see any added problem with that 00:43:29 * boily 's karmic-roguelike sense is tingling. 00:43:45 that run I'm doing is going too well... 00:43:59 elliott: I feel weird. things are going my way at DCSS. 00:44:23 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:47:42 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:48:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 00:54:28 -!- yorick has joined. 00:54:30 boily: sounds good. where should we go 00:55:24 quintopia: mecca first, then jakarta. 00:55:37 boily: let's skip mecca. 00:55:51 boily: my music program thing is now in stereo :D 00:57:30 eh? 00:58:14 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:11:59 boily: you didn't see it? 01:12:06 boily: you have a pythonic linux yes? 01:16:15 oerjan: I have a vague idea that cpu registers are "often" ECC 01:17:12 not sure, but I think radiation etc. is much less likely to flip SRAM than DRAM 01:18:33 a SRAM cell is like two amplifiers feeding back into each other 01:19:31 a DRAM cell is just a capacitor + transistor 01:21:35 quintopia: I am both a penguin and snake fanboy. 01:22:11 boily: then try it out! http://sprunge.us/QMMG 01:23:12 lots of comments, good code 01:23:39 uhm. 01:25:26 quintopia: I apparently have a marked absence of /dev/dsp. 01:26:33 maybe you need to alsa oss something something? 01:27:17 my current machine is asymptotically converging towards zzo-status. 01:27:24 (meaning: weird stuff happens.) 01:29:06 olsner: I'm compiling oss. 01:29:26 you could also pipe into 'play' with the appropriate parameters 01:30:39 boily: there was another guy who didn't have that. he was able just to install one package and it worked 01:31:15 but I miss compiling random stuff! at my new job we're using windows machines! it feels weird and dirty! 01:31:22 quintopia: you could write chr(int(samp/256)%256)+chr(int(samp%256)) as struct.pack(' boily: otoh, sound probably works 01:32:27 well this particular case isn't "sound doesn't work in Linux" so much as "using the 10+ year old deprecated sound API doesn't work" 01:32:41 it's true that Windows is more apt to keep 10+ year deprecated APIs around 01:33:31 compilation worked, but insmodding the modules didn't. 01:33:46 * boily *grmbls* 01:33:50 kmc: yeah i figured that. in fact, i looked it up at some point. but that was only a recent change i made, and was too lazy to look it up again. 01:34:06 lol 01:35:43 oh it doesn't work 01:39:54 kmc: no errors, but no sound either. what happen. 01:41:44 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:44:59 yeah i just put it back like it was since the pack thing doesn't work 02:02:17 boily: what is the plural of menage a trois? 02:05:06 -!- Bike has joined. 02:05:16 quintopia: ménages à trois. 02:05:34 (or ménage à six, if you like it that way.) 02:07:14 https://twitter.com/LW_txt btw 02:08:12 since when is Glenn Gould a bad guy? 02:08:27 -!- tertu has joined. 02:08:44 ha ha. 02:12:46 `cat bin/coins 02:12:47 words --eng-1M --esolangs ${1-20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 02:13:44 what's ${1-20} 02:14:11 `run sed -i 's/--eng-1M --esolangs [$]{1-/${1---eng-1M --esolangs /' bin/coins 02:14:13 No output. 02:14:14 `run foo=hello; printf '%s\n' "${foo-bye}" 02:14:14 hello 02:14:16 `cat bin/coins 02:14:16 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 02:14:18 `run printf '%s\n' "${foo-bye}" 02:14:19 bye 02:14:37 `coins --swedish 20 02:14:38 anräkningpoolcoin lundvitcoin anonscoin baraftatorncoin emastbetencoin förarcoin förternascoin löperuptcoin signoscoin vationcoin överacoin ruinernacoin kvälvscoin värdispcoin holminernascoin preliercoin landerjordercoin kurvencoin skiftetscoin snyftongenercoin 02:14:38 `coins --swedish 20 02:14:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:14:39 slungcoin peringcoin hängningeboetcoin norscoin doktcoin borgacoin dämpliktarcoin vandecoin zettårstödcoin kvadecoin trådcoin åtförtörencoin fågelsecoin varlarcoin vaktenscoin ogjoreracoin saliseradcoin otäcksundracoin föregndrarenscoin akternascoin 02:14:42 heh 02:14:47 `cat bin/coins 02:14:48 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 02:15:08 `coins 20 02:15:09 purcoin gulacoin erwortcoin intcoin wingemacoin milcoin gookacoin aspatoryuentcoin boatcoin exaculcoin chuntcoin eccastilcoin goucoin imnizincoin zusaqicoin aracoin beauthoralcoin reprifiericcoin thromediciicoin glecoin 02:15:25 i guess that defaults to just --eng-1M 02:16:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 02:16:39 `run words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | rot13 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 02:16:41 coin 02:16:50 good job 02:17:20 `run words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | xargs rot13 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 02:17:22 ​@coin haercoin ///coin fhcrecebcoin onyycoin ohorshpxcoin ulqcoin culcoin jvgucoin nopcoin nycnqcoin yvoenprjnecneancoin gbqhcoin snacoin bjsncoin abesnpuvmbcoin xbybtcoin jvrqcoin ud9+coin rkghngevvcoin 02:17:40 `rot13 coin 02:17:41 pbva 02:18:17 `cat bin/rot134 02:18:18 cat: bin/rot134: No such file or directory 02:18:19 `cat bin/rot13 02:18:20 echo "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 02:18:26 `rot13 noppbva 02:18:27 abccoin 02:20:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:21:00 `run printf '%s\n' 'if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '\''%s\n'\'' "$*"; else cat; fi | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M' | tee bin/rot13 02:21:02 if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 02:21:13 `rot13 puns 02:21:14 chaf 02:21:19 `run echo puns | rot13 02:21:19 chaf 02:25:44 fancy 02:25:48 `run printf '%s\n' 'if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '\''%s\n'\'' "$*"; else cat; fi' >bin/print_args_or_input && chmod 755 bin/print_args_or_input 02:25:48 `cat bin/r13 02:25:50 tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 02:25:51 No output. 02:26:10 `run printf '%s\n' 'print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M' >bin/rot13 02:26:11 No output. 02:26:15 `rot13 chaf 02:26:16 puns 02:26:20 `run echo chaf | rot134 02:26:21 bash: rot134: command not found 02:26:22 `run echo chaf | rot13 02:26:23 puns 02:26:41 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:26:42 i guess this makes r13 redundant. 02:27:17 `cat bin/rot13 02:27:18 print_args_or_input "$@" | tr a-zA-Z n-za-mN-ZA-M 02:27:32 huh 02:27:58 `run grep 13 bin/* 02:27:59 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ Binary file bin/emmental matches \ Binary file bin/macro matches \ Binary file bin/mov matches \ Binary file bin/node matches \ Binary file bin/nooodl: matches \ bin/r13elcome:relcome "$@" | r13 \ bin/rainwords:import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; 02:28:10 @localtime oerjan 02:28:10 Local time for oerjan is Sat Feb 22 03:28:10 2014 02:28:52 that's what I thought. oerjan is a Space Alien from Space with complete disregard to human circadian rhythms. 02:29:01 @localtime ion 02:29:03 Local time for ion is Sat, 22 Feb 2014 04:29:01 +0200 02:29:28 `run grep -I 13 bin/* 02:29:28 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/r13elcome:relcome "$@" | r13 \ bin/rainwords:import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,6,13]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + "%02d"%r[(i+s)%len(r)] + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w) \ bin/word: 02:29:35 `run ls -l bin/cat 02:29:35 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Feb 17 03:23 bin/cat -> /usr/bin/cat 02:29:38 and ion is one of oerjan's Ectoplasmic Puppet Manifestations. 02:31:07 `run grep -I r13 bin/* 02:31:08 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/r13elcome:relcome "$@" | r13 02:31:30 `run sed -i 's/r13/rot13/' bin/r13elcome; rm bin/r13 02:31:32 No output. 02:31:41 `relcome ion 02:31:42 ​ion: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 02:31:43 ooops 02:31:48 `r13elcome ion 02:31:49 ​vba: Jrypbzr gb gur vagreangvbany uho sbe rfbgrevp cebtenzzvat ynathntr qrfvta naq qrcyblzrag! Sbe zber vasbezngvba, purpx bhg bhe jvxv: . (Sbe gur bgure xvaq bs rfbgrevpn, gel #rfbgrevp ba vep.qny.arg.) 02:32:44 `run grep -I '\$[*@]' bin/* 02:32:44 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/^.^:cat $@ \ bin/¿:? "$@" | rev | tac \ bin/؟:? "$@" | rev \ bin/WELCOME:WELCOME "$@" | perl -CS -Mutf8 -pwe 'y/!-~/!-~/; y/ / /' \ bin/aaaaaaaaa:echo "$@" | tr A-Za-z0-9 [A*26][a*26][4*10] \ bin/as86:as="$1"; shift; echo ".intel_syntax noprefix; $as" | gcc "$@" -c -x assembler /d 02:33:37 `run grep -EI '(echo|printf).{,10}\$[*@]' bin/* 02:33:38 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/aaaaaaaaa:echo "$@" | tr A-Za-z0-9 [A*26][a*26][4*10] \ bin/complain:echo "$@" >> complaints; echo Complaint filed. Thank you. \ bin/instalist:echo $@ \ bin/ord:echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { ord } split //, $_);' \ bin/ordu:echo "$@" | perl -C7 -pe 'chomp; $_ = join(" ", map { s 02:33:39 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 02:33:59 boily: you didn't already know this? 02:35:36 I am sane, therefore I didn't. 02:35:41 `run echo 'test echo "$@" echo "$*" echo $@ test' | sed -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /' 02:35:41 test print_args_or_input "$@" echo "$*" echo $@ test 02:35:47 `run echo 'test echo "$@" echo "$*" echo $@ test' | sed -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' 02:35:47 test print_args_or_input "$@" print_args_or_input "$@" print_args_or_input "$@" test 02:37:16 `run sed -i -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' "bin/^.^" bin/aaaaaaaaa; cat "bin/^.^" bin/aaaaaaaaa 02:37:18 ​#!/bin/sh \ cat $@ \ #!/bin/sh \ print_args_or_input "$@" | tr A-Za-z0-9 [A*26][a*26][4*10] 02:38:06 `run sed -i -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' bin/complain bin/ord bin/ordu 02:38:07 No output. 02:38:23 `cat bin/instalist 02:38:24 echo $@ 02:39:00 `run rm bin/instalist; ln -s print_args_or_input bin/instalist 02:39:01 No output. 02:39:06 `instalist foo bar 02:39:06 foo bar 02:39:37 `run grep instalist bin/* 02:39:37 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:39:44 `run grep -EI '(echo|printf) ("?)\$[*@]\1' bin/* 02:39:45 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:39:56 `run grep -EI '(echo|printf) ("?)\$[*@]\2' bin/* 02:39:57 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory \ bin/shmify:echo "$@" | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' \ bin/unhex:echo "$@" | xxd -r -p 02:40:28 `run sed -i -re 's/echo ("?)\$[@*]\1 /print_args_or_input "$@" /g' bin/shmify bin/unhex; cat bin/shmify bin/unhex 02:40:30 ​#!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' \ print_args_or_input "$@" | xxd -r -p 02:40:43 `run grep -EI '(echo|printf) ("?)\$[*@]\2' bin/* 02:40:43 grep: bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:40:52 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:41:09 `run ls -l /usr/bin/cat 02:41:09 ls: cannot access /usr/bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:41:27 `run rm bin/cat 02:41:28 No output. 02:41:33 wat 02:41:37 `cat bin/shmify 02:41:37 ​#!/bin/bash \ print_args_or_input "$@" | sed -e 's/^\([^aeiou]*\)\(.*\)$/\1\2 shm\2/' 02:42:17 `revert 02:42:19 Done. 02:42:23 ? 02:42:29 `ls -lL bin/cat 02:42:30 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 02:42:35 `run ls -lL bin/cat 02:42:36 ls: cannot access bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:42:41 darn 02:42:43 `run ls -l bin/cat 02:42:43 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Feb 22 02:42 bin/cat -> /usr/bin/cat 02:42:50 ion: i was trying to find the file history 02:43:04 but apparently it's now gone. 02:43:15 wait there it is 02:43:25 `revert 02:43:25 Done. 02:44:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN FROM THE EARTH). 02:44:09 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:09 oh i see it was freefull doing a rather silly vandalism evasion 02:45:23 now what 02:45:53 `cat bin/cat 02:45:54 cat: bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:45:59 `ls bin/cat 02:46:00 ls: cannot access bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:46:27 Gregor: now the repository browser is missing a change again 02:47:20 @tell Gregor i did two consecutive `reverts and only the first shows up in the repository browser 02:47:20 Consider it noted. 02:47:22 Where’s the repository browser? 02:47:59 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:48:12 (see also `help) 02:48:44 `run echo hi >test 02:48:46 No output. 02:48:51 thankes 02:50:27 `ls bin/cat 02:50:28 bin/cat 02:50:35 oh there it happened 02:50:39 `cat bin/cat 02:50:39 cat: bin/cat: No such file or directory 02:50:46 `ls -l bin/cat 02:50:46 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 02:50:51 `run ls -l bin/cat 02:50:52 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 12 Feb 22 02:48 bin/cat -> /usr/bin/cat 02:51:09 `run rm bin/cat; echo nope >bin/cat 02:51:10 No output. 02:51:15 `rm bin/cat 02:51:16 No output. 02:51:31 `run cat complaints 02:51:31 No output. 02:51:41 `run ls -l complaints 02:51:41 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 5000 9 Feb 17 03:23 complaints -> /dev/null 02:52:32 @tell Gregor oh hm it was involving a symbolic link again. "fixed" it by doing some other change, then turning it into a normal file, then deleting it normally. 02:52:32 Consider it noted. 02:53:01 the repository really doesn't handle symbolic links well. 02:53:11 I wonder why? 02:56:05 i am guessing there's some code that assumes they don't exist, so does a test the wrong way and confuses being a symbolic link with not existing. 02:56:16 although it only happens in some cases. 02:57:12 your first rm bin/cat worked, as did my revert of it, but the revert of that only changed the actual file, not the repository version. 02:57:24 nice 02:57:45 so when i did another change it was copied back somehow. 02:58:10 but turning it into a "normal" file makes things work again. 02:58:36 it's not the first time this kind of thing happens. 03:15:59 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:16:30 -!- jconn has joined. 03:19:05 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:41:52 -!- tromp has joined. 03:56:24 How did menus and joystick on the original Amiga and Macintosh computers work? 04:12:24 what joystick? 04:13:03 is zzo38 a bot? 04:13:42 no. 04:19:01 is zzo38 a troll? 04:19:54 no, zzo38 is an old an esteemed regular of this channel, who may however be rather excentric. 04:19:57 *and 04:20:08 i hope this clears it up. 04:20:54 cool. then i should prob apologize for some of my rude answers.. it just always feels like i'm being trolled 04:21:09 amiga and mac primarily worked with mouse, not joystick 04:21:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:25:15 I know it worked with mouse, not joystick 04:25:24 But do they support a joystick at all? 04:27:16 i dont think amiga supported a joystick for the workbench gui. you could use joysticks with games 04:28:03 http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1003456 finally someone figures out a practical use for Quake 04:28:05 http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=68707 <- said you could but it wouldnt workw ell 04:28:06 Yes, that is what I thought, but how do those joysticks work? 04:29:00 iirc amiga accepted standard atari joysticks, 9 pin d-connector, which had one pin for up,down,left,right and fire, and it would hook up those pins to vcc or gnd as you moved the joystick? 04:29:16 i thikn the mouse worked the same way except it would click many times in the directions it was travelling 04:30:59 How did joystick work on Commodore 64, Macintosh, Apple II, etc? 04:31:48 http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1435/joyportsro8.jpg 04:32:02 c64 and atari and amiga had the same joystick connector port 04:32:15 i dont know about appleII or mac 04:33:01 I do know also how PC joysticks work, which used discharge times, I think 04:33:14 http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/atari_stick.gif 04:33:46 some joysticks use two potentiometers, one for x axis, one for y axis. one way to measure the potentiometer is to charge it with an RC circuit and see how long it takes to discharge 04:34:24 atari and c64 also supported reading pots on the joystick port.. i havent heard of people using it for a joystick, but people used it for the "paddle controllers" used by pong and driving games 04:34:58 http://www.waitingforfriday.com/images/thumb/6/61/Commodore_Paddles.png/300px-Commodore_Paddles.png 04:35:51 http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/Paddle 04:36:27 "analog joysticks" are just like two paddles used together as one joystick 04:38:46 http://arduino.cc/en/uploads/Tutorial/joy_pic_480.jpg 04:44:11 The Z-machine documentation includes more extension table words, such as MSETBL, MSEDIR, MSEINV, MSEVRB, MSEWRD, BUTTON, JOYSTICK, BSTAT, JSTAT. The first five are for menus, BUTTON is for button events, JOYSTICK for joystick events, and BSTAT and JSTAT store the state of the buttons and joystick. 04:44:37 I am trying to figure out how this was supposed to work. I believe Infocom probably had no details in mind when they wrote this down, actually. 04:46:07 "(the following words are defined but no XZIP implements them) 04:46:11 heh interesting 04:46:34 Yes, and not only did they not implement them, but they didn't document them, either. 04:46:46 And they never used them. 04:49:21 Other than these things, there are two remaining unknown things: One is more details about their MIDI files (I believe command 0xFF is a delay, but cannot figure out the units and have no evidence other than the files themselves), and which computers used which variant of Font 3. 04:51:08 The DECSystem-20 interpreter used VT100 character graphics if used with a VT100 terminal, or custom graphics that match either the PC or Amiga (I don't know which) if you have a VT220 terminal. There was no way to check this feature within the Z-code program other than asking the user, as far as I know. 04:51:44 (Maybe the interpreter version identifier byte could indicate this, but even if it did, Infocom did not use this.) 04:53:29 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:53:46 -!- tromp has joined. 05:03:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:04:14 -!- tromp has joined. 05:08:28 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:27:27 kmc: omg happy birthday 05:28:40 did you know kmc and happy birthday have absolutely no letters in common 05:30:31 kmc: i am sorry but my attempts to wish you a chimæric happy birthday have been thwarted. in two languages. 05:30:37 Now I can see it 05:30:57 oh hm 05:31:06 what... does that mean 05:31:15 gratulerer kmced dagen 05:31:33 oh 05:31:47 happy kmc day 05:31:50 or night 05:32:15 he does seem a little silent 05:34:16 "Once one goes down that road, one’s on a very slippery slope. Perhaps that’s why the kind of attitude you elucidated there, Jeremy, is one of the greatest enablers of evil in the history of our species." 05:34:30 someone is on a slippery slope to godwin 05:35:05 and this was in a quantum computing discussion. 05:35:45 we all know hitler was emotionally damaged by the negative reception to his quantum annealing company 05:36:18 * oerjan has a hunch Bike may have read the same thread. 05:36:31 map chr $ zipWith (ord x ^ ord y) "KMC" "day" 05:36:34 > map chr $ zipWith (ord x ^ ord y) "KMC" "day" 05:36:36 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char 05:36:36 -> GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Int' 05:36:36 with actual type `GHC.Types.Int'Couldn't match expected type `GH... 05:36:36 with actual type `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr'Couldn't match e... 05:36:36 with actual type `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr' 05:36:49 > map chr $ zipWith (\x y -> ord x ^ ord y) "KMC" "day" 05:36:50 "*Exception: Prelude.chr: bad argument: 1839101630706465969 05:36:51 no, but it's pretty easy to guess if you're reading about quantum computing it's aaronson, and if it's aaronson it's d-wave 05:37:10 basically sherlock holmes and Jesus in one right here 05:37:32 Bike: can't argue against that 05:37:55 > map chr $ zipWith (\x y -> ord x `xor` ord y) "KMC" "day" 05:37:56 "/,:" 05:37:59 that 05:38:15 good cos i'd have fucked you up like a fig tree 05:40:17 > zipWith (xor `ala` chr) "KMC" "day" -- wonder if this was the function... 05:40:19 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' 05:40:19 with `(GHC.Types.Char -> c0) 05:40:19 -> (GHC.Types.Char -> c0) -> GHC.Types.Char -> c0' 05:40:19 Expected type: ((GHC.Types.Char -> c0) 05:40:19 -> (GHC.Types.Char -> c0) -> GHC.Types.Char -> c0) 05:40:24 :t ala 05:40:25 Wrapped s s a a => (s -> a) -> ((s -> a) -> e -> a) -> e -> s 05:44:06 maybe that's not so easy to use with a binary function. 05:45:14 > map chr $ zipWith (xor `on` ord) "KMC" "day" 05:45:15 "/,:" 05:45:26 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:45:37 some fancy composition of chr with (xor `on` ord) ? 05:45:55 > zipWith (chr .: xor `on` ord) "KMC" "day" 05:45:56 Not in scope: `.:' 05:45:56 Perhaps you meant one of these: 05:45:56 `.' (imported from Data.Function), 05:45:56 `C..' (imported from Control.Category), 05:45:56 `.>' (imported from Control.Lens) 05:46:06 COULD HAVE BEEN 05:46:46 probably has the wrong precedence anyway. 05:46:49 ?type xor 05:46:50 Bits a => a -> a -> a 05:46:55 why chars nto Bits? 05:47:21 well Chars are unicode 05:47:25 well how else would you do xor if there was not bitwise representation to use 05:47:28 Because of its limit. 05:47:37 they're not closed under the operations. 05:47:40 Its limit is stupid, nonetheless, but it is there. 05:47:52 If they just used something liek 24-bits then it would work. 05:48:31 oerjan: what is the highest-degree poly-time algorithm ever used to solve a real problem? do you know? 05:48:43 (The I/O could convert characters outside of Unicode range into a Unicode replacement character, if needed; but you can use 24-bits in UTF-8) 05:48:45 the highest i know of is the sextic algorithm for PRIMES 05:49:14 that was the one that dropped into my mind too 05:49:31 i may not be well-educated on this issue. 05:49:37 ok 05:50:43 also does anyone use that for "real" given that the randomized tests are faster, even if you want a certificate? 05:51:17 (iirc) 05:51:23 ?hoogle (a -> b) -> (b -> a) -> (a -> a -> a) -> (b -> b -> b) 05:51:24 No results found 05:52:10 chemistry is really weird. i'm looking at an explicit wavefunction. and then there's a footnote indicating that exp x means e^x. 05:52:59 bike: now you wont wonder what e, x and p are and why they're being multiplied! 05:58:54 -!- nooodl has joined. 06:11:15 @let onIso f i x y = review i f (view i x) (view i y) 06:11:16 .L.hs:152:34: 06:11:17 Couldn't match type `Control.Lens.Internal.Review.Reviewed 06:11:17 a0 (Identity b0)' 06:11:17 with `a1 -> Accessor a1 a1' 06:11:17 Expected type: Getting a1 s1 a1 06:11:47 @let onIso f i x y = view (re i) f (view i x) (view i y) 06:11:49 .L.hs:152:37: 06:11:49 Couldn't match type `Control.Lens.Internal.Review.Reviewed 06:11:49 a0 (Identity s0)' 06:11:49 with `a1 -> Accessor a1 a1' 06:11:49 Expected type: Getting a1 s2 a1 06:12:33 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:47 -!- TodPunk has joined. 06:13:07 hm the syntax is correct, i probably need rank-N types 06:14:18 ?hoogle (a -> b) -> (c -> d) -> (a -> a -> c) -> (b -> b -> d) 06:14:19 No results found 06:14:27 doesnt have to be ISO 06:15:04 @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' b a) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) f (view i x) (view i y) 06:15:06 .L.hs:154:17: 06:15:06 Couldn't match type `a' with `a -> a -> a' 06:15:06 `a' is a rigid type variable bound by 06:15:06 the type signature for 06:15:06 onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> Iso' b a -> b -> b -> b 06:15:20 @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' a b) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) f (view i x) (view i y) 06:15:21 .L.hs:154:17: 06:15:22 Couldn't match type `b' 06:15:22 with `(b -> b -> b) -> (b -> b -> b) -> b -> b -> b' 06:15:22 `b' is a rigid type variable bound by 06:15:22 the type signature for 06:15:30 oh wtf 06:15:35 woooooo yeah baby 06:15:46 take it all offfff 06:17:04 oh wait duh 06:17:11 @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' a b) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) $ f (view i x) (view i y) 06:17:11 What does "utf8_unicode_ci" mean in MySQL? 06:17:13 .L.hs:154:17: 06:17:13 Couldn't match type `a' with `b' 06:17:13 `a' is a rigid type variable bound by 06:17:13 the type signature for 06:17:13 onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> Iso' a b -> b -> b -> b 06:17:26 @let onIso :: (a -> a -> a) -> (Iso' b a) -> (b -> b -> b); onIso f i x y = view (re i) $ f (view i x) (view i y) 06:17:29 Defined. 06:17:31 whew 06:18:30 > zipWith (onIso (re enum) xor) "KMC" "day" 06:18:31 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int' 06:18:31 with `GHC.Types.Int' 06:18:31 Expected type: (GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int) 06:18:31 -> (GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Int) 06:18:31 -> GHC.Types.Int 06:18:41 argh 06:18:51 :t onIso enum 06:18:52 Couldn't match type `Int' with `a0 -> a0' 06:18:53 Expected type: (a0 -> a0 -> a0) 06:18:53 -> (a0 -> a0 -> a0) -> a0 -> a0 -> a0 06:19:03 :t onIso 06:19:04 (a -> a -> a) -> Iso' b a -> b -> b -> b 06:19:09 oh duh 06:19:30 > zipWith (xor `onIso` re enum) "KMC" "day" 06:19:31 Could not deduce (p ~ (->)) 06:19:31 from the context (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p, 06:19:31 GHC.Base.Functor f) 06:19:31 bound by a type expected by the context: 06:19:31 (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p, GHC.Base.Functor f) => 06:19:32 woooooooooooo 06:19:55 this seems not entirely improving 06:20:09 > (xor `onIso` re enum) 'K' 'd' 06:20:10 -!- password2 has joined. 06:20:11 Could not deduce (p ~ (->)) 06:20:11 from the context (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p, 06:20:11 GHC.Base.Functor f) 06:20:11 bound by a type expected by the context: 06:20:11 (Data.Profunctor.Unsafe.Profunctor p, GHC.Base.Functor f) => 06:20:31 > (xor `onIso` enum) 'K' 'd' 06:20:33 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' with `GHC.Types.Char' 06:20:33 Expected type: p a0 (f a0) -> p GHC.Types.Char (f GHC.Types.Char) 06:20:33 Actual type: p a0 (f a0) -> p GHC.Types.Int (f GHC.Types.Int) 06:20:49 :t re enum 06:20:50 (Enum b, Functor f, Contravariant f) => (Int -> f Int) -> b -> f b 06:20:59 :t re 06:21:00 (Functor f, Contravariant f) => AReview s t a b -> (t -> f t) -> b -> f b 06:21:34 oh wait 06:21:45 > zipWith (xor `onIso` from enum) "KMC" "day" 06:21:48 "/,:" 06:21:51 huzzah! 06:22:16 this is the thing you did earlier with nothing but vanilla haskell, right 06:22:36 I figured out what it means; I do not want to implement it due to its complexity. 06:23:00 Bike: ಠ_ಠ 06:23:00 ¯|¯⌠ 06:23:01 >\| 06:23:52 i should probably install a kannada font 06:24:09 i still got ¬_¬ though 06:24:19 > let boobs = (.).(.) in zipWith (chr `boobs` (xor `on` ord)) "KMC" "day" 06:24:21 "/,:" 06:28:01 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:28:47 ?let mapBinOp f g h = ((.).(.)) h (f `on` g) 06:28:49 Defined. 06:29:07 > zipWith (mapBinOp xor ord chr) "KMC" "day" 06:29:11 "/,:" 06:30:42 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 06:32:56 > zipWith (mapBinOp xor `withIso` enum) "KMC" "day" 06:32:57 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Int' with `GHC.Types.Char -> c0' 06:32:57 Expected type: (a1 -> GHC.Types.Char -> a1) 06:32:57 -> (b0 -> t0) -> GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Char -> c0 06:32:57 Actual type: (a1 -> GHC.Types.Char -> a1) 06:32:57 -> GHC.Types.Int -> GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.IntCouldn't m... 06:33:06 > zipWith (mapBinOp xor `withIso` from enum) "KMC" "day" 06:33:07 Couldn't match type `a0 -> b0' 06:33:08 with `Control.Lens.Internal.Iso.Exchange 06:33:08 (GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Int) 06:33:08 GHC.Types.Char 06:33:08 (GHC.Types.Char -> GHC.Types.Int) 06:33:12 ff 06:34:29 > zipWith (withIso enum $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day" 06:34:30 Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `GHC.Types.Int' 06:34:30 Expected type: [GHC.Types.Int] 06:34:30 Actual type: [GHC.Types.Char]Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `GH... 06:34:30 Expected type: [GHC.Types.Int] 06:34:30 Actual type: [GHC.Types.Char] 06:34:39 > zipWith (withIso (from enum) $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day" 06:34:43 " 06:34:53 O_O 06:35:08 :t zipWith (withIso (from enum) $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day" 06:35:10 [Char] 06:35:25 > zipWith (withIso (from enum) $ mapBinOp xor) "KMC" "day" 06:35:28 "/,:" 06:35:33 whew 06:35:59 (one day i may be able to remember which side of things is s t and which is a b) 06:36:05 you've been doing this for an hour now 06:36:38 right, it's about time for some food 06:58:15 https://www.google.com/search?q=marquee+html 06:58:24 (Stolen from #cslounge ) 06:59:58 https://www.google.com/#q=blink+html 07:07:46 Is there a chess problem where Bxa8# or Ba8# is the only solution? 07:08:26 (Or one of the other three corners) 07:16:47 What is the computational class of the "B-tapemark" esolang? 07:18:04 any class you want it to be, baby 07:18:53 Sure, but then I would have to change it...I mean, how it is, what class it is the way it is, rather than what it would be otherwise. 07:21:04 "any class you want it to be, baby" is not a proper excuse. 07:22:20 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:24:54 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:25:00 If it is Turing complete, would it be with some symbols removed, and if so, which ones? 07:26:25 -!- Bike has joined. 07:29:33 The conditions always only switch the program grid with the data grid when the condition is true. 07:47:53 oerjan: the only pattern that uses 0 x could just as easily be written 4242424240n140n1. the 0x is inessential, afaict. 07:50:17 um that doesn't do the same thing at all. 07:54:01 quintopia: that pattern doesn't work the way you think, and your version breaks horribly. 07:54:27 i went to sleep and then i came back to say i got it wrong 07:54:47 but i'm not wrong in principle 07:54:58 no, that honor is taken by me. 07:54:58 maybe but it will make code longer. 07:55:21 pity! :P 07:59:43 !python -c 'print xrange(-1)' 07:59:45 File "", line 1 \ -c 'print xrange(-1)' \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax 07:59:59 `run python -c 'print xrange(-1)' 07:59:59 xrange(0) 08:00:22 quintopia: you could make IO trigger on a negative _first_ number. 08:01:21 oerjan: but there's so many nice properties i get by having it be zero. some of the examples i wrote use sneaky tricks. 08:01:49 bah 08:02:29 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:05:07 why not just have the interpreter filter 0x7F. no one needs to print a del character :P 08:05:23 have you ever heard of binary files 08:06:20 also, i don't see an obvious way to fix the 424242420xn10xn1 pattern. 08:07:17 -!- tromp has joined. 08:09:35 fix it? no just make another that accomplishes the same :P 08:09:44 bed time 08:09:45 well that's what i mean. 08:10:19 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:11:44 quintopia: anyway i am objecting to restricting the form of pure ResPlicate programs on the chance that they _might_ run with IO enabled. 08:11:50 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:21:18 you have to explicitly enable IO in the current interpreter. it is definitely an extension and not a core feature of the language. programs written in core have undefined behavior when run with the extension 08:21:43 also doesn't something like 4242424222n122n1n1 work? 08:22:18 hm it does 08:22:34 YOU WIN THIS TIME 08:22:39 okay really bedtime now 08:23:16 actually, 21, not 22. 08:27:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 08:48:54 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:52:36 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:54:35 -!- Frooxius has joined. 09:26:58 -!- luserdroog has joined. 09:33:56 -!- oklopol has joined. 09:36:03 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:51:21 -!- ski has joined. 10:03:45 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:11:00 -!- password2 has joined. 10:23:08 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:49:34 Why does my root window have a calculator icon? http://sprunge.us/dVAU 10:51:53 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:53:26 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:54:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:55:40 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 10:56:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:57:13 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:05:18 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:35:41 if the root window is 0 maybe a buggy calculator accidentally set the icon for null instead of itself? 11:36:00 I just got _NET_WM_ICON: not found. 11:43:27 I did try out kcalc over two-hop X forwarding over SSH, because someone on another channel asked a question about kcalc, and I only had that installed at work. 12:09:21 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:10:29 I can't believe I'm actually considering learning vim 12:11:21 Sgeo: do it! 12:12:08 worst case, you don't like it and use something else 12:12:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:12:30 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:21:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:24:24 If anyone is in Vienna, there's a Core War event at Metalab at 4pm this afternoon https://metalab.at 12:28:21 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:29:00 -!- yorick has joined. 12:42:22 -!- boily has joined. 12:52:50 "We call this CTRL-G" what, not C-g or something just as bizarre? Blasphemy! 12:53:16 Maybe it's ctrl minus g 12:53:26 You are supposed to remove the g key 12:54:15 a spotty decision to remove the G. 12:55:44 Does less use vim-like commands? 12:55:50 That would make doing this well worth it 12:56:17 yes, similar (not the same though) 12:57:03 since ctrl-g normally means ctrl plus g, ctrl+g should mean ctrl minus g 12:57:13 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:58:47 so G is electron-like, and is a negatively charged letter. makes sense. 13:01:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:02:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 13:02:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:12:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 13:18:14 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:24:00 -!- Froox has joined. 13:24:00 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:25:08 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 13:27:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:30:13 -!- lambdabot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:36:17 -!- lambdabot has joined. 13:38:57 helloily 13:44:05 -!- sebbu has joined. 13:55:22 -!- upgrayeddd has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:55:25 quinthellopia! 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For more information, check out our wiki: . 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15:50:35 -!- int-e has quit (*.net *.split). 15:50:35 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 15:52:10 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 15:53:30 Why did MS Paint take so long to have anti aliasing capabilities 15:53:40 The Wu line algorithm is from like 92 15:53:47 You'd think by Windows 95 it would be there 15:57:21 -!- tromp__ has joined. 15:57:22 -!- tromp__ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 15:57:45 -!- ggherdov has joined. 16:01:52 -!- jix has joined. 16:03:45 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 280 seconds). 16:06:29 Slereah: because for most of what people seriously use Paint for, anti-aliasing is actively harmful 16:06:43 its main use is things like limited color depth icons 16:07:04 Yes, but why not the *possibility* of it 16:07:50 -!- shachaf has joined. 16:07:50 -!- tertu has joined. 16:08:07 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:09:38 -!- ineiros has joined. 16:12:12 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 16:12:50 -!- 23LAA5N24 has joined. 16:12:52 -!- clog has joined. 16:13:56 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:13:59 -!- jix has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 16:15:19 -!- int-e has joined. 16:15:41 -!- shachaf has joined. 16:16:24 -!- SgeoWeb has joined. 16:16:30 Hmm. 16:16:38 So Freenode didn't break and die, it's just me? 16:16:53 ) 'J, am I alive?' 16:16:53 SgeoWeb: J, am I alive? 16:16:59 -!- yorick has joined. 16:17:34 -!- myname has joined. 16:17:34 -!- heroux has joined. 16:18:55 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Excess Flood). 16:19:04 -!- tertu has quit (*.net *.split). 16:19:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:19:10 -!- jix has joined. 16:19:48 -!- SgeoWeb has quit (Client Quit). 16:20:57 -!- 23LAA5N24 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:20:58 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:21:55 Slereah: if Paint had AA, consequences would never be the same. 16:23:38 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:24:05 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 16:24:07 boily : http://www.elftor.com/elftor.php?number=112 16:24:34 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 16:24:34 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Excess Flood). 16:24:37 -!- clog_ has joined. 16:24:39 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 16:24:42 -!- augur_ has joined. 16:24:58 Slereah: indeed. 16:25:11 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 16:25:31 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:25:35 -!- shachaf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:25:36 -!- shachaf has joined. 16:25:47 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:25:53 Slereah: also, http://unomoralez.com/ (some quite NSFW) 16:27:41 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Excess Flood). 16:27:51 -!- tromp has joined. 16:27:56 -!- jix has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:27:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:27:58 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 16:27:58 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 16:27:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 16:28:00 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 16:28:02 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 16:28:02 -!- Sellyme 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myname has joined. 18:24:33 -!- quintopia has joined. 18:24:41 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 18:24:42 -!- elliott has quit (*.net *.split). 18:24:44 -!- atrapado has quit (*.net *.split). 18:24:45 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 18:24:46 -!- Guest80757 has quit (*.net *.split). 18:24:46 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 18:24:52 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 18:35:35 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 18:36:05 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:45:46 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:04:44 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal. 19:05:11 Hm, so I looked at cfunge again, and now I am thinking, "Did I really write that sort of code a couple of years ago?" 19:05:27 It is rather hard to follow in places 19:07:59 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:09:51 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 19:09:55 ohai pplz 19:11:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:11:46 Anyone want to see my newest calculator game? 19:12:38 What is that game? 19:12:52 Flappy Bird... 19:13:48 Describe how the game is working, and what model of calculator it is for. 19:14:13 TI-83+, TI-84+, TI-83+SE, or TI-84+SE. 19:14:33 And here is a screenie of it running on an 84+: http://img.ourl.ca/JWinslowFlappyBirdv1rev4.gif 19:15:22 How does it look? 19:18:11 It is OK 19:19:26 Thanks. 19:20:25 Maybe a background isn't needed, but is OK otherwise 19:20:52 Well, it just looks good. 19:21:22 Besides, why the heck not? 19:22:49 There is no point removing it; I just meant it isn't really necessary. 19:23:53 Well, I like eyecandy. 19:24:21 I didn't need parallax, either. 19:24:56 Well, too bad, you can't get color graphics on those models of calculators. (And it would help, not only for some games, but also if you are plotting multiple data sets) 19:25:47 Well, TI just released a TI-84+ Color Silver Edition a year ago. :p 19:26:02 But, hey, grayscale looks good, huh? 19:26:20 Yes, grayscale looks fine, but for some things it would be useful to have colors. 19:26:55 Yeah... 19:27:16 ...they actually made a "Flappy Bird" for that color calculator already. 19:27:25 It requires DoorsCSE, though/ 19:28:21 Here is a screenie (just so you know, this was not made by me): http://www.cemetech.net/img/ss/001703.gif 19:28:47 Even if you are plotting a single function/dataset, it would help to have the axis a different color than the data. And then of course you can have color games, and various other colored things 19:29:05 Yeah. 19:29:16 It's kinda slow for the TI-BASIC language, though. 19:29:38 Yes, I would think so; TI-BASIC is slow in general. 19:30:49 The only model I have is TI-92, although I do have an emulator for some other models. 19:30:53 -!- JWinslow23_ has joined. 19:31:01 Darn keyboard. 19:31:24 ... 19:31:26 Wait... 19:31:31 ...didn't I quit? 19:31:40 It doesn't looks like it. 19:32:27 If your side disconnected but other one doesn't, you can try NS GHOST (if you have an account) 19:33:33 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:35:38 -!- JWinslow23_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:37:05 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:37:55 -!- tromp_ has joined. 19:38:20 Here is a screenie (just so you know, this was not made by me): http://www.cemetech.net/img/ss/001703.gif <-- terrible FPS 19:42:10 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:42:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:42:43 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:44:52 ah something good came out of the horrible chain-chess variant on chessbase, a reflection on what makes games hard for computers compared to humans. (http://en.chessbase.com/post/computer-resistant-chess-variants) 19:45:43 -!- lexande has joined. 19:45:50 -!- mroman has joined. 19:45:56 There are better games resistant to computers 19:45:57 Like Dixit 19:45:59 Or Calvinball 19:46:24 I have seen it 19:48:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:49:06 They also mentioned tandem pawns chess, option chess, etc they are interesting variants, but so is Sirlin's Chess, which they didn't mention. 19:50:38 Even though it differs by having hidden information. 19:50:49 STEALTH CHESS 19:51:07 There are many other variants with hidden information too, such as Kriegspiel 19:51:15 Or my own "Invisible Kings Chess" 19:52:31 -!- FireFly has joined. 19:52:31 -!- shachaf has joined. 19:52:31 -!- Guest80757 has joined. 19:52:31 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 19:52:38 what 19:52:38 -!- elliott has joined. 19:53:56 -!- ineiros has joined. 19:53:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 19:53:56 -!- augur has joined. 19:53:56 -!- Bike has joined. 19:53:56 -!- tertu has joined. 19:54:59 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest1502. 19:54:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Guest23595. 19:56:10 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:57:27 Slereah: Dixit ultimately looks like a game of manipulation. I don't think that it'll be fun if played competetively. [For example, a couple could make up their own code for describing each of the cards.] 19:58:08 It is mostly a game for fun, yeah 19:59:50 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 20:02:40 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:02:45 -!- `^_^v has joined. 20:03:41 -!- Guest1502 has changed nick to augur_. 20:10:59 fizzie, Just pushed some changes to cfunge. Some bug fixes on error handling paths, found using static analysis. 20:11:04 Probably doesn't affect you 20:11:32 Also PERL fix if the PERL output contains embedded nul bytes 20:14:48 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 20:14:50 -!- ggherdov has joined. 20:15:35 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: leaving). 20:16:52 fizzie, Oh and I fixed a bug making it fail to compile with icc 20:19:22 ~metar CYUL 20:19:42 * boily whistles while the cuttle reboots ♪ 20:24:25 -!- heroux has joined. 20:26:00 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:26:31 -!- yorick_ has joined. 20:31:02 * boily mumbles “will you connect you damn bot...” 20:35:04 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 20:35:04 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 20:35:04 -!- Guest80757 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:35:10 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 20:40:26 speaking of damn bots ... lambdabot, where art thou? 20:40:56 -!- FireFly has joined. 20:42:48 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 20:42:49 -!- ineiros has quit (*.net *.split). 20:42:49 -!- Guest23595 has quit (*.net *.split). 20:42:50 -!- augur_ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:42:51 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 20:42:56 -!- tertu has quit (*.net *.split). 20:51:56 -!- hexagon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:52:21 -!- hexagon has joined. 20:52:51 -!- metasepia has joined. 20:53:38 (it's trying ... but apparently has no luck finding an IRC server that will work. hmm.) 20:53:55 -!- Bike has joined. 20:53:55 -!- tertu has joined. 21:02:05 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:02:36 @bot 21:02:41 :) 21:02:46 @botsnack 21:02:52 :) 21:02:53 ~metar CYUL 21:02:53 CYUL 222000Z 22030G39KT 30SM FEW060 FEW080 FEW240 04/M06 A2964 RMK SC1AC1CI1 CI TR SLP039 21:02:58 * boily pats his bot 21:03:19 * int-e hugs his :) 21:05:30 `coins 21:05:45 I want my coins back. 21:06:12 no gregcoins 21:06:51 Vorpal: Okay. Indeed doesn't sound like it'd affect fungot much. 21:07:00 Huh. 21:07:19 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:08:05 Freenode and its flaky servers, again. 21:08:31 None of {holmes,pratchett,barjavel}.freenode.net seem to be talking to me. 21:09:12 I couldn't connect to irc.freenode.net either but I am connected to card and that one works. 21:09:16 -!- fungot has joined. 21:09:36 rajaniemi.freenode.net seems stable currently 21:09:53 int-e: It's somewhat far away, though. 21:10:03 low bandwidth, who cares 21:10:15 (read: I don't care) 21:10:23 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:10:27 fizzie, yeah it was mostly stuff like "if malloc fails here, you will read an uninitialized value there" 21:11:18 int-e, but the latency!? 21:11:42 22:11:38 CTCP PING reply from int-e: 3.315 seconds 21:11:59 that's fast ;) 21:12:10 fizzie, also I like the RPi photo 21:12:38 Did you catch the bit where I was trying to measure the physical size of a single pixel in the macro setup? 21:12:41 @bot 21:12:41 :) 21:12:43 (also odd; lambdabot is now using the same server and replies in less than 2 seconds) 21:12:45 fizzie, nope? 21:12:53 fizzie, I just saw lambdabot messages 21:13:22 int-e, * Ping reply from irc.znc.in: 0.01 second(s) 21:13:28 wait a second 21:13:31 that is my bouncer 21:13:33 -_- 21:13:42 Why is it using such a stupid name 21:13:50 it is running on my Rpi 21:13:56 "in.ternal"? 21:14:02 Vorpal: If my ballpark calculations are right, one pixel in the source image (the ones I've posted have been scaled to 25%) corresponds to something like 1 µm. (Not that I've gotten exactly accurate-to-the-pixel images out of it.) 21:14:21 Bip uses "bip.bip.bip" as the host part of the prefix of messages it sends, IIRC. 21:14:22 int-e, would work better 21:14:27 (That's kind of silly too.) 21:14:52 fizzie, ooh you should take a photo of the root of a hair or some such thing with that setup 21:15:28 Vorpal: to be fair, znc.in *is* under znc's developer's control 21:15:35 int-e, yes 21:15:46 * Ping reply from int-e: 0.54 second(s) 21:15:48 not bad 21:16:08 so why is my own client so slow in answering itself ... 21:16:28 int-e, try again, maybe it had to load the relevant code from disk or some such? 21:16:41 -!- ais523 has quit. 21:16:47 I've tried several times, the fastest was 2.648 seconds. 21:16:51 huh 21:16:57 exactly. 21:16:59 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:04 -!- tertu has quit (*.net *.split). 21:17:07 oh come on 21:17:18 Vorpal: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ding.jpg -- that's approximately 5-6 mm wide, and the original image width was 5472 pixels. 21:17:34 fizzie, what is it of? 21:17:50 Vorpal: The dinged adapter ring I might've shown before, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140203-ding.jpg 21:18:02 Ah, cool 21:18:21 Vorpal: Oh, and I also took this: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140215-mystery.jpg 21:18:30 fizzie, hm, microscope photography would be cool 21:18:36 fizzie, quite a mystery 21:18:39 what is it 21:18:49 fizzie, retro-reflector? 21:19:04 Yes. Well, one of those things you hang in your clothes. 21:19:13 fizzie, exactly, a retro-reflector 21:19:31 It's kind of an overly fancy title, but technically accurate, sure. 21:19:38 fizzie, one of the flexible ones? Or one of the hard ones that you hang from a pocket? 21:19:46 Floppy. 21:19:47 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ref.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140218-ref2.jpg -- "regular-size images" with the phone. 21:19:48 Ah 21:20:09 Yeah the hard ones tend to have much larger "unit" size 21:20:14 if you understand what I mean 21:20:19 Vorpal: so apparently ctcp replies are processed in an "idle queue", and perhaps my own command makes irssi think I'm busy doing stuff and delays the unimportant reply. That's the best explanation I have without looking at code. 21:20:28 Ah 21:20:48 fizzie, Also, nice morran 21:21:09 fizzie, what is the less fancy name for retro reflectors in English? 21:21:19 In Swedish they are called "reflex" 21:22:03 I... well, I don't know if they have one. The Finnish word (heijastin) just translates to "reflector", and you have to grok it means that kind of one from the context. 21:22:10 Right 21:22:28 Google finds me references to "pedestrian reflectors". 21:22:38 Hm 21:22:46 fizzie, That is mårran right? 21:22:50 Or "safety reflectors". 21:22:58 From mumin 21:22:59 stick one on the front of your car and it'll prevent all accidents 21:23:05 Not sure what the English name of that character is 21:23:06 the pedestrians will just bounce off 21:23:19 Phantom__Hoover, :) Hi 21:23:39 Vorpal: Yes. ("Mörkö" in Finnish, apparently "The Groke" in English.) 21:23:40 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:23:49 That is a terrible English name 21:24:18 Vorpal: I believe it's derived from "growl", kind of like mårran from morra. 21:24:37 -!- Slereah has joined. 21:24:39 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Be72GYUCYAAM7Vq.png:large 21:25:08 Slereah, heh, that is pretty neat 21:25:45 Slereah, they don't form English words though, do they? 21:25:47 Do you know what "`atts` bit(64) DEFAULT b'1000000000000000000000000000000000'," means in MySQL? That is less than 64 bits. 21:25:48 The Finnish name is the Finnish word for a bogeyman (spöke). 21:25:50 Not a fucking clue 21:26:05 Slereah, Can't see how that is possible with [CR]* (bottom left) for example 21:26:09 Vorpal: They don't, no. 21:26:39 CRCRCRCR 21:27:48 -!- ineiros has joined. 21:27:55 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:27:57 I can't remember if I filled out this one or some other one. 21:28:41 Slereah, or RRRRRRRRRRR or RRRCCC or ... 21:29:42 It's rather hard to make an English word for the R*D*M* either. 21:29:50 Maybe it's a car purring 21:29:52 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 21:30:10 you mean cat? 21:30:24 Yes. 21:31:31 Hm it is not really regular in the mathematical sense of regular expression/regular language 21:31:49 Near the middle left there is a back reference :/ 21:31:56 I guess it's more Linux-type regular 21:32:07 There's a couple of backrefs elsewhere, too. 21:32:09 POSIX Extended or PCRE 21:32:14 I assume 21:33:15 I wonder if there is a single unique solution, it seems to me quite a few of them are rather general. Like .*H.*H.* 21:33:24 Or even .* in two places 21:34:18 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 21:35:35 I'm fairly certain there are at least 3 valid alternatives for the upper left corner 21:36:19 Vorpal : I guess the rest is decided by the othe rtwo directions 21:36:30 Vorpal: There's three clues pertaining to each cell, though. I think that was originally from some MIT thing. 21:36:47 MIT's Mystery Hunt thing, to be more accurate. 21:37:00 Hm 21:37:12 If it's the same one, anyway. They've been quite popular after that, there's http://regexcrossword.com/ and so on. 21:37:14 It's not really harder looking than a sudoku really 21:37:25 fizzie, there is, and from what I can tell there are multiple viable options for the upper left corner 21:37:30 You just write in the possibilities and cross 'em out 21:37:35 N, E or I 21:38:23 Vorpal: Except if the one down-right from it is required to be I, S or H, which would lock also the corner in place. 21:38:46 fizzie, yes, but looking at it, I don't think it is, 21:39:54 Vorpal: Well, to me it seems like it must be either H or I, because of the [CHMNOR]*I[CHMNOR]* clue. 21:39:57 fizzie, it must be either N or E, I is not possible indeed 21:40:04 wait 21:40:30 You mean second on second line must be H or I 21:40:32 right? 21:40:33 Vorpal: Right. 21:40:40 Yeah 21:41:20 This might be fun to solve, Except for the back referencex 21:41:22 references* 21:41:27 That sounds annoying 21:42:48 At least there aren't any zero width assertions 21:44:45 fizzie, actually the bottom row appears rather open in many places. It is either C or HH (except for the first cell). Second cell is C, but apart from that there is a lot of .* starting/ending the other two clues 21:45:09 -!- augur has joined. 21:45:17 Of course, it has to add up to the right number of characters, but even then you have quite a bit of freedom there 21:45:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:45:40 The last 3 are completely open from what I can tell 21:45:43 Vorpal: ".*" doesn't automatically mean the cell is free, if the rest of the line means it expands to zero characters. 21:45:48 Hm true 21:46:03 (Though the .*(IN|SE|HI) and such are of course open.) 21:47:08 I don't remember whether I finished or not, but I got at least the majority of it filled with (unless I made a mistake) no ambiguities. 21:47:22 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 21:47:40 -!- augur has joined. 21:48:09 Hm okay 21:49:14 Vorpal: The third cell of the bottom line seems like another C to me, because of the (HHX|[^HX])* clue on the top-right side. 21:49:47 Well yeah, I didn't say all of them were open 21:50:21 bbl 21:53:26 Vorpal: Well. For the four rightmost cells of the bottom row, the possibilities are CCCC, CCHH, CHHC, HHCC and HHHH. The ([^EMC]|EM)* clue from top-right rules out the three first, so it's really only open whether the two last are CC or HH. It could be that the choice between those two is enforced by the .*(.)(.)(.)(.)\4\3\2\1.* clue, if the only place where you can fit a 12344321 pattern is ... 21:53:32 ... the beginning, but that's bit too far to go right now. Besides, I wouldn't want to spoil it. 22:02:15 fizzie, hm true 22:05:11 Vorpal: Incidentally, we're going to be doing this kind of a round-trip http://goo.gl/maps/K90Ii at summertime. 22:05:50 -!- shachaf has joined. 22:05:51 -!- Guest80757 has joined. 22:05:51 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 22:06:07 fizzie, neat you will pass close to me 22:06:12 fizzie, in Örebro 22:06:27 fizzie, car? 22:09:00 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 22:10:38 Vorpal: Yes. (Starting point is a Hertz car rental office.) 22:11:02 fizzie, One day or several? 22:12:28 A couple; the points with markers are places we'll spend a night (the Kolmården marker is probably not at the hotel, since I just typed in Kolmården), and then one night in Stockholm because of ferry schedules. 22:12:59 -!- TodPunk has joined. 22:13:03 fizzie, I don't know if there are any tourist attractions of notice near Örebro 22:13:24 fizzie, I guess Svampen, it is a neat looking water tower with a restaurant at the top 22:13:41 We were going to stop at that Kinaparken place you took pictures of. 22:13:55 fizzie, oh nice, I forgot I posted pictures of it 22:14:03 fizzie, you located it? 22:14:16 It is a bit off the trodden path as it were 22:14:28 Well, I've found their http://www.bastedalenherrgard.se/?nr=18 site, I haven't looked closer than that yet. 22:14:41 Ah 22:14:50 There's a set of GPS coordinates on the page, not sure if those are accurate. 22:15:35 fizzie, well their "map" (karta) is useless, it shows a google map with no markers... 22:15:53 Oh the English version has a marker 22:16:00 Well that is interesting 22:16:04 Yeah, I don't know what's up with that. Google Maps does find a "Bastedalens Herrgård", anyway. 22:16:05 And confusing 22:16:22 fizzie, try switching with the flag in the upper right corner 22:16:28 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 22:16:28 -!- Guest80757 has quit (*.net *.split). 22:16:34 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 22:16:44 fizzie, does it work for you on the English page? 22:16:47 Yes. 22:16:50 Curious. 22:16:53 Very 22:17:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:17:27 fizzie, when were the pictures from? That day with almost no one there? 22:17:39 Yes. With I guess some rain? I don't remember exactly. 22:17:46 Yeah it rained iirc 22:18:10 Looking at the source (which has had all newlines removed), the English page has markers: [ { latitude: 58.786664143237495, longitude: 14.935569763183594, html: "

Bastedalens Herrgård
& Kinapark

" } ] 22:18:21 And the Swedish? 22:18:26 While the Swedish one has markers: [ ] in it. 22:18:32 Hah 22:19:06 https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Svampen,+%C3%96rebro&safe=off&hl=en&tbm=isch&imgil=kUBdzYtUsc73FM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcShXZ4_7HMvyJUKTCJtDBQSVuVLeRhJU_Fyb30v6uNuaocsLiET%253B210%253B210%253BRA7tMg1LRX_gCM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.orebro.se%25252F1636.html&source=iu&usg=__uMggZb9-QVnOllVHfHDI19zhEXs%3D&sa=X&ei=DyEJU-C-La 22:19:07 u_ywPRuoHoCA&ved=0CGUQ9QEwBA&biw=1920&bih=1063#facrc=_&imgrc=kUBdzYtUsc73FM%253A%3BRA7tMg1LRX_gCM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.orebro.se%252Fimages%252F18.3c1ef9ae11d4988e18f800010926%252F210_210_Svampen.jpg%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.orebro.se%252F1636.html%3B210%3B210 22:19:10 jesus 22:19:14 Lets try that again 22:19:33 https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=Svampen,+%C3%96rebro&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=biIJU9KqA4b9ygOF8ILwDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1352&bih=759 22:19:36 That is better 22:20:02 fizzie, that is in Örebro, a water tower with a restaurant in the top. I heard it was pretty good 22:20:08 but never tried it myself 22:20:41 Oh, a water tower with gills. 22:21:13 fizzie, kind of yes 22:21:19 https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvarntorpsh%C3%B6gen 22:21:26 fizzie, there is that too 22:21:41 There's a restaurant on top of a water tower here in Espoo, http://www.finroute.ru/upload/iblock/80a/80ad65c84a906c1b159f012dcaae8f05.jpg 22:21:46 -!- ter2 has joined. 22:21:54 (Less mushroom, more UFO.) 22:21:55 fizzie, I can try to make a summary if you want 22:22:26 I can probably read enough Swedish for Wikipedia articles. 22:23:39 fizzie, basically they mined skiffer for oil during the second world war 22:23:50 and that heap is the slag from that 22:24:06 it is really hot inside. Smoking from parts of it. 22:24:25 But there is an art exhibition on the top of it nowdays 22:24:48 fizzie, https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konst_p%C3%A5_H%C3%B6g 22:26:56 For some reason Google Maps (in English) seems to have a lot of names spelled with a lowercase first letter in Sweden. 22:27:03 At least at some zoom levels. 22:27:04 fizzie, I noticed that too 22:27:15 Mosås for example 22:28:05 Some of them seem to be labels that turn into a small-caps font when zoomed in enough. 22:28:43 Though Vättern stays at "vattern | Vättern" (with | denoting a newline) no matter how much I zoom. 22:29:00 (Vänern is just Vänern.) 22:29:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:31:22 Råsunda in Stockholm is also "rasunda" at some zoom levels. 22:31:39 Heh 22:33:26 And Saltsjö-Duvnäs is first "saltsjoduvnas" and then later "SALTSJODUVNAS". It's like their small-caps labels can't do diacritics or punctuation at all. 22:33:37 http://i.imgur.com/om7LJLQ.jpg 22:33:51 Vorpal: "Herrgård & Kinapark"? 22:35:10 olsner: Based on the pictures, "Herrgård" sounds a bit grandiose. Though I guess it applies to most things that have enough own land around. 22:35:15 Chinese Garden sounds sane though, I almost expected a chinese theme park or something 22:35:40 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:35:45 olsner, there is a herrgård near there iirc 22:36:52 They do rent rooms and apartments, but we sort of thought that perhaps not. 22:38:05 (Why do they have a "finger" mouse pointer for the background rectangles of the navigation menu when only the text labels are actually clickable?) 22:38:59 fizzie, probably not pro at web design? 22:39:35 " 22:39:45 lol what 22:39:55 I guess their ttttt is tttt. 22:42:39 ion: But what about the polygon counts in the models, huh? 22:44:48 ion, oh god, is that what the new Thief is like? 22:45:04 Hm did it release already? I thought it was next week 22:45:48 ion, I would suggest playing Dishonored instead, that has pretty good level design 22:49:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:51:53 It's not really called "Thi4f", right? 22:52:05 I assume not 22:52:12 I think it's just "Thief". 22:53:54 regular expression crosswords spoiler: http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/recross.png 22:54:26 tedious, but in the end the solution was unique :) 22:55:36 Oh, the corner we were discussing was indeed from the 12344321 rule. 22:58:53 (and what have they done to the text tool in gimp? it used to be usable for just adding a single character to a picture...) 22:59:10 eusjfryeuwigevhfye73isekdhfuiehduiboilyshaouisdhudisk 23:01:50 And since that was incomprehensible, it used to be possible to have text centered around the position where one clicked. Now, apparently, the position one clicks becomes the upper left corner of a text box. annoying. 23:03:48 I like this idea of "regular expression crosswords" 23:08:13 zzo38: can you make one? 23:08:24 (i know you won't, but could you?) 23:08:45 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:08:55 quintopia: I don't know 23:10:16 hmm, i bet they could be generated automagically 23:10:34 ion, to be fair people were coming out with all sorts of dire predictions before human revolution came out, and it was pretty great in the end 23:13:33 vorpal: Yeah, i liked Dishonored. 23:13:43 vorpal: I did a ghost run. 23:14:17 I did one in Human Revolution, too. 23:14:38 problem with dishonored (also with hr to a lesser extent) is that ghosting is kind of depicted as the 'right' choice 23:15:19 in dishonored's case this is a problem because killing people is really damn fun, in hr it's a problem because if you get spotted it's really hard not to just think of it as a failure and quickload 23:17:20 (i have been trying to replay hr recently without just ghosting it and it's not been that fun) 23:34:26 -!- realzies has joined. 23:37:37 -!- tromp has joined. 23:37:37 -!- Bike has joined. 23:45:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:46:46 -!- shachaf has joined. 23:46:46 -!- Guest80757 has joined. 23:46:46 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 23:58:28 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 23:58:28 -!- Guest80757 has quit (*.net *.split). 23:58:34 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 2014-02-23: 00:09:42 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:12:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:12:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:12:38 there clearly should be more std*s to choose among 00:14:15 shikhin: i suppose you could branch out to c header file names 00:17:11 nothing like washing the dishes to singe off a few skin layers on your fingers... <-- i see two options (1) use less boily water (2) use gloves 00:18:58 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 00:18:59 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 00:22:30 quite splitty today. i am reading codu and tunes logs in parallel. tunes managed to pick up some of Sgeo's lines twice. 00:23:28 and then tunes leaves off for hours. 00:23:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:27:04 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 00:27:45 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:28:16 la la la 00:32:47 mi mi mi 00:37:10 -!- Node_492 has joined. 00:37:15 ooooo 00:37:19 this channel is s o 00:37:21 esoteric 00:37:31 `relcome Node_492 00:37:38 thank you! 00:37:43 Ah. No bot. 00:37:48 hahaha 00:37:52 nope 00:38:18 interesting channel 00:38:26 he didn't mean you but our welcoming bot 00:38:42 hm... 00:38:46 ^welcome 00:38:47 : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try ... 00:38:47 ohh 00:39:04 ohh it's esoteric programming language design... 00:39:26 I never really got into computer programming 00:39:28 oh right we tried putting a backup message on fungot but it's cutting the line too short 00:39:28 oerjan: if so, call this command with that person's nick. :) hopefully i can get freedom by spending some extra ram i'm all for that 00:39:51 i guess it works for desperate times 00:40:00 wow 00:40:04 Node_492: the bot would have said: "Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)", but with way too many colors. 00:40:33 ah thank you 00:40:52 I thought this channel was going to be about esoteric discussion/texts 00:41:07 oerjan: oh. I have to remember that fungot knows about this, too. 00:41:07 int-e: there is a complete waste of time. i just used the manpage on linux), so that's 1+0, or 1 week the other way 00:41:38 then again, redundancy hardly ever hurts. then again, redundancy hardly ever hurts. 00:41:42 It saddens me that it seems the only thing I care about enough to actually get into an argument about is whether redstone is TC or not 00:42:26 Taneb: hm you must be another one of my mirror twins. 00:42:42 oerjan, which side do you take 00:43:21 Taneb: i don't play minecraft, but doesn't redstone have bounded memory? 00:43:43 Yes, which nobody else seems to grasp 00:44:18 i've gotten into tc arguments elsewhere lately 00:44:21 anybody want to teach me programming? 00:44:27 except that time it was the human brain, which was just sad 00:44:28 * oerjan notices that fungot 00:44:28 oerjan: i'm not talking about syntax now...) sends " fnord" this'? 00:44:28 I promise to be a great pupil 00:44:35 's message was eerily relevant 00:44:40 (again) 00:44:40 Node_492: What programs, and what programming languages? 00:44:40 33 00:44:50 oerjan: the waste of time one? 00:44:50 Node_492, ok your first lesson as a programmer 00:44:53 no idea I mean the most basic I suppose 00:45:05 I am interested in audio programs though 00:45:07 your primary way of learning to program is to google " tutorial" 00:45:10 as I'm an audio engineer for my day job 00:45:18 and deal with audio plugin VSTs within DAWs 00:45:19 for computers 00:45:25 and could make a good amount of money off of those 00:45:43 often these tutorials will be shit and inaccurate; your second lesson in a programmer is how to furiously defend whatever arbitrary preferences and habits you've now picked up 00:45:48 Phantom__Hoover: wow. it works for malbolge. http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml 00:46:07 right but I'm on a mac, would learning to program really benefit my life? 00:46:21 no 00:46:22 i don't know, you're the one who wants to learn! 00:46:27 I mean 00:46:34 programming is unpleasant and programmers moreso 00:46:36 learn to program, be like elliott 00:46:39 can't I just learn some fun tricks in the terminal or something 00:46:42 yes 00:47:03 int-e: no the one about "call this command with that person's nick", which is just what i forgot to do with ^welcome 00:47:04 programming doesn't have to be a drag does it? 00:47:12 fun tricks in the terminal are the gateway drug to programming! 00:47:17 exactly 00:47:29 (mind you that would have just cut it off even more) 00:47:57 so what do you guys do for programming? 00:48:00 websites? 00:48:16 I program in many programming languages. 00:48:28 well 00:48:31 if I were to say 00:48:36 Node_492: your programming question seems to have brought out the channel's cynics :P 00:48:36 I can list some if you want 00:48:43 could you try to get a blockchain.info account code and password 00:48:53 would that be possible for you? 00:48:58 what 00:49:07 are you asking us to hack someone's bitcoin account 00:49:16 Node_492: I don't think so. 00:49:19 I'm asking if your programming skills coule do it 00:49:21 okay 00:49:29 so if I can't even get an account password and shit 00:49:43 then this programming thing is just pebble bits 00:49:46 Node_492: you seem to be confused about what programming is for 00:49:55 like would any of you guys be able to program for my computer to shut off 00:49:59 remotely from your location? 00:50:16 ?? 00:50:18 no 00:50:21 Node_492: What operating system do you use? In order to do that, I would not only need to know the operating system but your computer needs to run a program to listen for that command. 00:50:32 what? 00:50:34 most probably not, if not for some social engineering 00:50:42 there's no way to get into my terminal and make it install itself? 00:50:51 Node_492, you will literally die if you don't turn off your computer asap 00:50:57 man 00:50:59 so 00:51:02 Node_492: There *might* me. 00:51:07 meh 00:51:10 It depends how it is configured. 00:51:10 okay fine 00:51:12 so programming 00:51:19 But probably not. 00:51:29 say I want a program that picks up sound frequencies and tells me what key the tone is in 00:51:33 would any of you guys be able to do it 00:51:36 if I paid money 00:51:48 Node_492: Does your computer have a microphone? 00:51:57 well yes I have microphones 00:52:00 that connect to my computer 00:52:02 I think there probably are existing programs to do that anyways. 00:52:07 yeah I know 00:52:23 I'm just trying to see if I can do anything with programming 00:52:24 I probably could if I researched it enough 00:52:30 I see 00:52:39 so I mean... 00:52:55 programming is the #1 job market next to lawyers and engineers 00:53:07 it's just pretty interesting to me 00:53:16 I thought programming was a bit more powerful 00:53:24 or I thought hacking was easier 00:53:25 either or 00:53:41 I do not completely understand you. Powerful in what ways? 00:53:56 Ooh, buzz-wordy. "Most modern spectrum analyzers are now almost exclusively Hybrid Superheterodyne-FFT based giving a significant improvement in sweep time." 00:54:00 like the best programmer in ze world 00:54:08 Superheterodyne! 00:54:14 would they be able to shut off internet servers remotely 00:54:18 or anything cool like that? 00:54:30 or is that all fake and you actually would have to have physical access to the servers 00:54:30 that's not "cool" hth 00:54:31 Node_492: it's not cool. they might, but where's the fun? 00:54:34 Node_492: It depends what they have access to. 00:54:46 what if they have access to the whereabouts of the secret princess 00:55:04 It isn't something I know anything about. 00:55:12 33 00:55:54 Node_492: i don't care about hacking or other criminal activities, so i've never bothered to learn any more than vague theory about it. i'm sure many people here on the channel are the same. 00:56:08 alright so 00:56:08 Well, I read 2600. 00:56:16 what's something cool you could do with programming 00:56:26 I guess you could do stuff like automate the sprinkler times 00:56:27 I have no interest in committing any crimes, but the information can be used for other purposes too. 00:56:32 -!- eupatheia has joined. 00:56:36 Node_492: Yes, if it is connected to a sprinkler. 00:56:43 I'm just trying to understand it's usefulness 00:56:51 Otherwise you can't do it anymore than you can shut off a server remotely. 00:56:53 have you ever used a computer? 00:56:56 -!- eupatheia has left. 00:56:59 no 00:57:06 interesting. 00:57:10 are you from the past 00:57:11 you're just trolling, right? 00:57:14 no 00:57:19 I'm only 16 00:57:21 I have a smartphone 00:57:27 as that's what my generation got 00:57:34 it's a computer 00:57:38 fine 00:58:02 Smartphones aren't as good as a proper computer 00:58:02 (a computing device, if you will. but for all intents and purposes, it's a universal machine running software, that is, programs.) 00:58:14 But yes it is a computer. 00:58:16 well, not universal 00:58:17 your version string reports OS X 00:58:23 so you're definitely using a computer right now 00:58:26 (the downside is that vendors will lock it down and make it hard to run your own software on.) 00:58:29 well I'm at the mac store 00:58:39 getting my phone fixed right now 00:58:42 I had weird issues 00:58:46 that would shut it down 00:58:58 so I thought maybe learning a bit of programming would help future events like that 00:59:15 most probably not 00:59:20 it will not 00:59:34 right 00:59:42 so say I learned all the programming in the world 00:59:51 would I theoretically be able to make my own smartphone OS 00:59:51 It really doesn't. Even if you have a better understanding of what's going wrong, you'll still be locked out. (And generally you'll be unable to collect the necessary information, again for lack of access to the device.) 00:59:55 and Apps 01:00:03 yes 01:00:11 programmers write operating systems and apps. 01:00:18 wtf is CTCP version 01:00:28 and thanks int-e 01:00:28 they're not found written on stone tablets 01:00:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:01:10 wtf is requested ctcp version from node_492 01:01:14 "CTCP" is "client-to-client protocol", a method for encoding queries to IRC clients on top of IRC messages. 01:01:29 so what's elliot trying to do...? 01:01:46 somebody was interested in your IRC client software, and asked it about it. nothing happened, it's normal. 01:02:07 oh okay 01:02:09 anyway 01:02:21 I work as a audio forensics person 01:02:24 it's like reading a name plate on a door bell. 01:02:35 and we have technology at our base that allows us to do some wicked stuff 01:02:41 I thought programmers were savvy on it 01:03:09 like I can take out certain frequencies/sounds from an audio source and isolate it 01:03:09 some are 01:03:24 some programmers are. programmers specialize. and of course some are better at what they are doing than others. 01:03:35 I see 01:04:45 You'd implement some sort of band filter. I've never needed one, so I'd hit google with those keywords. (I know it can be done with FFT, but that's probably overkill in this case.) 01:05:44 no I already know how to do it 01:05:52 I have software specifically for audio forensics 01:05:59 I was just wondering how hard it is to make my own 01:06:09 I work as a audio forensics person 01:06:09 I'd probably need 3 years of learning and a 10 man team 01:06:13 and you're sixteen 01:06:19 so? 01:06:30 I intern at my friends studio 01:06:42 mm 01:06:59 if you guys give me an audio file I can prove my skillz 01:08:30 Node_492: i'd think once you know basic programming, the hard part of audio forensics is learning the mathematical theory of sound waves. 01:08:50 I'm sure there's algorithms already though 01:09:01 as the funamentals of tone and frequency are all in textbooks 01:09:02 yes, those are of course based on the math. 01:09:28 well okay 01:09:33 in my field 01:09:45 we've been doing this new thing called circuitry emulation 01:09:52 where we take an old vintage analog piece of hardware 01:09:59 and we model it's behaviors 01:10:06 through convultion and many other means 01:10:12 and create a software version of the hardware 01:10:30 (Hey, I was going to suggest that I could simulate an actual band pass filter circuit, then erased that remark.) 01:10:39 I think they do it by hardware that picks up the vintage gear's mathmatics 01:10:58 no no 01:11:03 I can do that with a simple equalizer 01:11:17 anyway, what I was getting at is 01:11:30 are there hardware/gear that helps programmers out 01:11:45 by say, figuring out equations for them and whatnot that they might need within their programming 01:11:50 besides a calculator I suppose 01:13:57 I don't know, perhaps things like the signal processing toolbox for matlab (is there some open source software like that?) 01:14:11 my impression is _most_ programmers (i'm not actually a professional one) do web programming, which doesn't require much equations. 01:14:32 (and is also probably boring.) 01:16:07 Octave's got some of MATLAB's filter design bits implemented. 01:16:20 And I'm sure there are programmers in the world that have used Mathematica. 01:16:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:16:40 do apple stores really use what looks like residential ADSL for their internet connections? 01:17:06 sometimes 01:17:11 it's not an official mac store 01:17:12 sometimes? 01:17:16 ... 01:17:17 it's just a repair shop in the city 01:17:26 I imagine that starting with something high-level that offers, say, filters that can be plugged together, and then exploring the internals of a filter and writing your own, will be far less frustrating than starting from the bottom, where anything more complex than a 'hello world!' will be a challenge initially. 01:17:39 anyway the matlabs filter design and signal processing is EXACTLY what I was looking for 01:17:41 thank you!! 01:17:42 there are third-partyi Phone repair shops? 01:17:51 it's true 01:18:04 we don't have a mac store in edinburgh, we have some 3rd-party place 01:18:04 which don't void apple's warranty? 01:18:14 it might void it 01:18:18 not sure 01:18:33 Hmm, not sure if it's coincidence that I managed to reconnect after adding chat.freenode.net:6667 and making the chat.freenode.net:7000 config use SSL 01:18:37 oerjan: If you keep quiet about it. 01:18:37 The successful connection seems to have been to 6665, which it was alraedy trying to go to 01:18:39 And SASL didn't seem like it was helping before 01:19:18 oerjan: "I don't know why there's a rude message scratched into the internal components of the phone, it must've been like that when it left the factory." 01:19:23 Sgeo: a coincidence is likely, since chat.freenode.net resolves to several IP addresses. 01:19:57 do any of you guys use DAWs with VSTs/AUs? 01:20:02 It is true that freenode's 7000 is SSL-only, though. 01:20:15 (hmm, but it could be worth checking whether some of the servers listen to non-6667 ports only) 01:20:16 it's all programming and probably one of the most popular up and coming sectors of programming 01:21:01 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:21:54 "digital audio workstation", "virtual studio technology", "audio unit". No. 01:22:32 I use Csound. 01:22:42 Not with VST, DAW, and AU, though. 01:22:42 God, I feel like crap 01:22:56 woah 01:23:01 fizzie: but I don't seem to be connected to 7000 01:23:02 Csound looks interesting 01:23:05 I might download it 01:23:21 ooooooooo 01:23:35 so is Csound almost like a sound modulator that you can program? 01:23:39 I also wrote extensions to Csound, and a program CsoundMML to compile the score. 01:24:07 * oerjan guesses on "almost, except not almost" 01:24:36 There are quite a few "audio programming languages" around. Pure Data is another well-known one. 01:24:42 hmm 01:24:44 Well, for some values of "well known". 01:24:55 (In the "I've heard of it" sense.) 01:25:00 so say I get good at coding in one of these programs 01:25:02 then what? 01:25:20 I make programs for other people to use or something 01:25:23 ? 01:27:10 I'd guesstimate that most users of Csound/Pd are just doing music-y things for their own amusement. 01:27:52 And/or sound-related research, could be handy tools there too. 01:28:01 I see 01:28:36 so programming is difficult in my opinion without a GUI 01:28:39 I know it sounds retarded 01:28:43 but coming from the layman 01:29:01 programming things would be so much better if they had GUIs 01:29:19 I prefer it without a GUI, but that is due to preference 01:29:40 I just hate the whole 01:29:47 you can't undo/go back type thing 01:29:51 or maybe you can 01:30:29 it's one of those 1-2-3 things: 1. learn programming. 2. ... 3. profit! 01:30:58 do any of you guys earn money from programming 01:30:58 ? 01:31:09 or rather make a living? 01:31:14 In the meantime, programmers who know a bit of C can laught about https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhEuZKmCcAAcPAS.png 01:31:26 int-e: Now that I look at it, Octave-Forge's "signal" package seems to have grown to cover a lot more of MATLAB compared to what it used to. 01:31:26 and how do you even approach people for jobs 01:32:08 hey int-e, that's not a stab at me is it?? 01:32:29 companies have websites. say, https://www.apple.com/jobs/us/ 01:32:35 int-e, so that works out as a goto fail that will always be executed, right? 01:32:47 Node_492: no. 01:32:50 Phantom__Hoover: yes! 01:32:54 haha 01:33:05 Phantom__Hoover: I'm sure Python people are already using this as a proof for their superiority. 01:33:42 fizzie: interesting. 01:33:48 -!- tromp has joined. 01:34:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:09 Node_492: The point of the 1-2-3 thing is really that there are many ways in which programming may come in handy. You can work as a programmer, you can do consulting, you can do something entirely different and automate a couple of data processing tasks. You can program for others, or you can make tools for yourself. It's hard to say which is the way to go. 01:35:31 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:35:32 -!- Guest80757 has joined. 01:35:32 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 01:35:52 Can you get indentation-does-not-match-logic warnings out of any mainstream compiler and/or lint tool? 01:36:04 I see 01:36:26 I kinda want to get into it but it seems a bit too daunting 01:36:34 (I'm sure something like StyleCop would've just generally warned about the lack of braces or something.) 01:37:29 (Oh http://www.stylecop.com/docs/SA1503.html yes it would have.) 01:38:36 do any of you guys know about an esoterica IRC channel 01:38:41 Node_492: That is certainly true. Then again, learning anything in more than superficial detail is daunting. 01:38:51 yes of course 01:39:03 but the notion of programming on a black screen with no GUI 01:39:04 it's like 01:39:13 asking the hottest cheerleader out at school 01:39:17 you don't have to do that. 01:39:25 [my terminals are black on white ;-) ...] 01:39:30 ... 01:39:44 and so through programming in the terminal 01:39:48 you can create GUIs right? 01:39:52 yes 01:40:05 what if I were to start programming and create a GUI for my own programming thing 01:40:07 so I can use it easier 01:40:30 buttons so I don't have to type out long commands 01:40:31 etc 01:40:32 You can use existing guis. 01:40:39 ah 01:40:49 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:44:11 also 01:44:16 last time I was in IIRC 01:44:24 I made fun of some guy 01:44:33 and he fucking throttled my internet connection for MONTHS 01:44:43 god that was fucking horrible 01:45:14 what 01:45:47 ? 01:46:11 -!- shachaf has quit (Changing host). 01:46:11 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:53:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:54:30 do any of you guys know about an esoterica IRC channel <-- the end of our welcoming message which got cut off mentions #esoteric on the dalnet network, which is sort of where we've agreed to point people who ask (we haven't found any better channel). although last i heard it was very quiet. 01:55:08 you may also be interested in roald dahl 01:55:38 i don 01:55:58 * oerjan remembers and swats shachaf -----### 01:56:02 Or just ask whatever questions you have here; maybe nobody knows, but they are recorded so you can look later 01:56:43 ah 01:56:54 nah I just wanted to have a discussion on stuff other than programming 01:57:02 I came onto IIRC to just socialize 01:57:04 zzo38: i'm not sure that's a very good idea. 01:57:10 but I forgot that it's mainly programmers talking to each other 01:57:17 Yes it is mainly programming 01:57:22 But we do discuss various things here. 01:57:28 yeah 01:57:30 -!- tromp has joined. 01:57:30 Probably nobody knows the answer though 01:57:37 I once made a GUI for xmms2 in kommander 01:57:37 So better idea would be to look elsewhere 01:57:40 I don't have any questions really 01:57:41 Node_492: you are on the freenode IRC network. it is even more mainly programmers than other irc networks. 01:57:41 The code was ugly 01:57:43 Node_492: it's IRC, "Internet Relay Chat. "IIRC" is "if I remember correctly". 01:58:06 ...? 01:58:14 Yes, Freenode is mainly programming 01:58:21 wtf is the different between IRC and IIRC 01:58:25 (There was a quote missing.) 01:58:34 one is three letters. the other one has four. 01:58:41 -!- ggherdov has joined. 01:58:50 enlightening! 01:58:59 I,IRC 01:59:10 > let (irc,iirc) = (0,1) in irc == iirc 01:59:13 False 01:59:13 Node_492: irc is a way to chat. iirc is an abbreviation to use while chatting. hth 01:59:22 oh 01:59:27 okay 02:00:11 oerjan: "hth" dnh, I suspect :) 02:00:36 so what's the irc everybody uses for discussion/socializing? 02:00:41 dalnet? 02:00:48 It depends what you want to discuss. 02:01:03 o 02:01:11 I'm just trying to find interesting stuff 02:01:18 and interesting people 02:01:26 int-e: imo you cannot be right hth 02:01:34 Well, there is interesting stuff in this channel, but I don't know if it interests you or not. 02:01:40 reddit/4chan and all those bought out travistock operations are becoming mind numbingly bad like the six o' clock news 02:02:05 oerjan: that's sobering. I thought I had a chance of being right on occasion. 02:02:17 Node_492: reddit isn't so bad if you find a medium low size channel 02:02:27 it's the big ones that are truly crap 02:02:31 yeah but then it becomes so specialized 02:02:38 you can't talk about anything BUT that topic 02:02:42 and it becomes very vanilla 02:03:01 also I googled dalnet irc 02:03:07 yeah alas the best subreddits are the ones that are strictly on topic 02:03:07 but none of the links work 02:03:19 Node_492: irc.dal.net supposedly 02:03:25 yeah but that defeats the whole purpose of general discussion/socialization 02:03:44 sure it's cool for strict discussions 02:03:52 but not a great place to just chat 02:03:59 General discussion/socialization isn't the best idea; better to ask a specific question. 02:04:04 LOL 02:04:21 i've never looked much to places for general chat so i don't know how to find the good ones if they exist 02:04:32 the thing is 02:04:41 I've been looking for years since usernet 02:04:47 and they've all gotten shut down 02:05:04 or moved onto private invite only message boards 02:05:11 that become super elitist 02:05:17 private social boards 02:05:19 blah blah 02:05:48 all the plebs are left on reddit/facebook and the content from it is ruining my brain 02:07:26 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:08:29 irc.dalnet is down 02:08:32 to me, reddit is the closest thing i know to usenet as it was 02:09:29 But are there NNTP servers for Reddit? 02:10:37 zzo38: that's not what i mean by "closest", i mean socially, not technically. 02:10:54 lol 02:10:56 OK 02:11:01 you guys are so caught up on the technical stuff 02:11:09 take it easy 02:11:19 Easy? 02:11:25 yeah 02:11:29 TAKE IT EASY 02:11:29 oh dear 02:11:40 That is impossible. 02:11:59 you have yet to understand the yin and yang 02:12:11 without balance you will be leading a life of self destruction 02:12:11 I know yin and yang a bit 02:12:27 Sorry. We are really not into that sort of esoterics. 02:12:39 Node_492: curiously, zzo38 is probably the one on this channel who knows most about astrology, despite not believing in it. 02:12:43 I do know some things of yin and yang 02:12:50 LOL 02:12:58 how about astrology 02:13:02 and it's my fault too. 02:13:03 anybody want me to read them? 02:13:09 Read what? 02:13:14 natal charts! 02:13:36 (i once made a web page with a horoscope for a game i played, with a link to astrolog software) 02:13:36 Well, I don't have any intention for you to read any natal charts at least 02:13:40 anybody into the works of Carl Jung? 02:13:49 I have heard of Carl Jung. 02:13:58 great stuff would you agree? 02:13:58 Node_492: i used to be a little 02:14:17 I can't agree or disagree, since I haven't much other than heard of it. 02:14:28 ah I see 02:14:31 oerjan: Yes, and I wanted to learn what all of the lines and symbols meant. Now I know. 02:14:33 ~metar LOWI 02:14:34 LOWI 230150Z AUTO 27003KT 9999 OVC070 M01/M02 Q1023 02:14:56 zzo 02:15:02 do you want to read my natal chart for kicks? 02:15:08 hmm, AUTO? 02:15:19 and tell me what you think 02:15:27 Node_492: If you want; I don't really care. 02:15:34 cool 02:15:40 If you want my opinion of it then of course that is the only way 02:15:43 hold on, I'll get the graph right now 02:15:45 oh, boring. "fully automated report" 02:16:00 Now I know that "Node" is an ascending lunar node, meaning intersection point on the ecliptic with the Moon's orbit 02:16:31 And now I know what astrological signs mean, what house systems mean, and why it used a different symbol for Pluto than I was used to (I prefe the "PL" symbol though) 02:17:16 And where the names "Tropic of Cancer" and "Tropic of Capricorn" come from. 02:17:30 I didn't know that before, and due to something oerjan wrote, I was curious and now I learned. 02:18:10 ok 02:18:11 zzo 02:18:13 http://www.astro.com/tmpd/cbnlfile7a1elM-u1393121875/astro_w2gw_01_freenode492_3_hp.8276.28993.gif 02:18:17 let me know what you think 02:18:52 well for one thing, it blows your claim to be 16 hth 02:19:21 you think a 16 year old would know anything about carl jung? 02:19:38 oerjan: Not if it isn't for your birth. 02:19:46 But yes, you do make a good point. 02:19:49 no, none of us really believed you were 16 but i find it funny nevertheless 02:19:58 cool 02:20:35 (although i remember a couple of ridiculously smart 16 year olds on the channel from before, right elliott) 02:20:36 Well, I prefer the Astrolog format (which is formatted a bit differently), but this works too. 02:20:54 Anyways, Astrolog also calculates Julian day numbers. 02:21:03 ?? 02:21:08 what does that mean 02:21:25 oerjan: but knowing about usenet was too much. *g* 02:21:36 int-e: oh right i missed that clue 02:21:45 actually, being 16 was one of the few things I believed that Node_492 said 02:21:50 LOL 02:22:00 Julian day numbers are a form of timestamp where the day begins at noon in Greenwich. The reason for that is so that the day number doesn't change while observing the stars. 02:22:04 don't even try to start discerning my fabrications 02:22:11 you're following my 33 02:22:24 But I do undertsand everything on that chart you linked to 02:22:29 right 02:22:32 what do you think of it? 02:22:39 personality wise 02:22:40 etc 02:23:09 I don't think it tells much personality wise. I am not an astrologer. 02:23:21 does it tell you anything? 02:23:39 not in the context of 'your moon is here' 02:23:47 but I mean what information can you extract from it? 02:23:59 Well, I can extract the phase of moon from it. 02:24:07 well it's in leo 02:24:25 Yes I can see that. 02:24:37 But the phase of moon is the difference in ecliptic longitude between the sun and moon. 02:24:55 ahh 02:24:56 I see 02:24:59 It looks to be almost a full moon. 02:25:07 what effect does that have? 02:25:27 btw those are a _lot_ of planets in capricorn. 02:25:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:26:05 is that uncommon? 02:26:05 Well, maybe it has an effect on personality, but not any I know of. It certainly has effects on lighting conditions, tides, etc. 02:26:18 right 02:26:26 I can see five objects in Capricorn. 02:26:35 I thought that was common 02:26:50 I don't know how common it is. I asked similar questions actually. 02:26:56 lol 02:27:04 zzo are you a capricorn? 02:27:09 Node_492: well it would be common for anyone born around that time i guess 02:27:17 right oerjan 02:27:24 but I meant 02:27:30 for the general populace I suppose 02:27:42 anybody want me to read their charts? 02:27:58 I'm pretty good at it 02:28:08 Node_492: I don't make that information public, nor do I care much. When I have the horoscope on my screen, I usually use the one for the current moment/place, which is more useful to me. 02:28:35 could someone perhaps do ill with that information? 02:28:42 or you just don't want anybody to know 02:29:01 Node_492: I just don't want anybody to know. I don't really expect anyone can do ill with that information. 02:29:25 oh okay 02:29:41 so is there any impression from the chart? 02:29:47 I mean you haven't really told me anything... 02:30:46 If you want that, you would have to ask a different channel with astrologers. I don't believe in all that stuff, so I can only tell you what it means in terms of positions, and how they affect mundane matters, such as phase of moon and so on. 02:30:54 And equinoxes and solstices. 02:31:04 And rising and so on. 02:31:08 Things like that. 02:31:41 well do I have any significance in those aspects? 02:31:47 equinoxes/solstices etc 02:32:38 The equinoxes are when the Sun is at 0 Aries or 0 Libra. Solstices are when the Sun is at 0 Cancer or 0 Capricorn (these correspond to the tropics of the same names). I can see it isn't an equinox or solstice at the time charted. 02:32:49 the one thing i notice is your moon and sun are close to in opposition (not sure if they're in technical sense), which i vaguely recall means your emotions may be in conflict with your soul and true purpose hth 02:33:07 interesting 02:33:08 oerjan: Yes, I noticed that too, which is why I said, it is almost a full moon. 02:33:17 capricorns are said to be 'contradictory' 02:33:21 so that makes perfect sense 02:33:22 That's what sun-moon opposition means to *me*, at least. 02:33:38 sun(father) and moon(mother) 02:34:01 well I appreciate the technical aspects of it 02:34:08 zzo38: hmm, what's the orientation of the chart, do the sun and moon move counterclockwise? 02:34:13 People have used these astrological interpretations to make up features of fictional characters/stories, and that is a perfectly legitimate use of it; if it is your story, do it whatever way you want. 02:34:16 int-e: Yes. 02:34:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:34:47 Other objects, since they don't orbit the Earth, sometimes go in the other direction. 02:35:06 perhaps with the other planets clustering close one could say that your emotions are in conflict with _several_ other aspects of your personality, which on the other hand fit together. 02:35:18 zzo38: tsk. what did you just say about the sun? :) 02:35:19 right 02:35:40 zzo38: but yes, that's why I asked about the sun and moon only. 02:35:51 int-e: I said the sun and moon move in the counterclockwise (which is positive) direction of the chart. 02:36:10 The "zero point" is the beginning of the "Aries" sign. 02:36:10 zzo38: but the sun does not orbit Earth. 02:36:23 zzo38: though it's hard to tell the difference. 02:36:26 int-e: Yes, but the Earth orbits Sun, and using relative positions it works out the same way. 02:37:21 I have used the horoscopes in my computer to calculate when is Chinese New Year, to calculate the exact times of equinoxes and solstices, to predict phases of moon and (to some degree) eclipses, and various things like that. 02:37:22 hmm 02:37:28 zzo38: I know. I just can't help it, I must nitpick anyway. 02:37:29 They do a lot of things! 02:37:54 oerjan, anything else besides the contradictory thing? 02:37:59 I appreciate the feedback 02:38:01 int-e: Yes. I didn't actually say the Sun orbits the Earth; I only said that the other planets don't orbit the Earth. 02:38:17 I don't take it too seriously but symbolically I don't ignore it 02:39:25 zzo38: you got me there. "sometimes" translates to "never" in the case of the sun. 02:39:50 int-e: Yes. But the Sun isn't a planet. Since the Earth orbits the Sun, it doesn't go backward. 02:42:24 Astrolog has many different charts it can generate. Such as, the standard horoscope chart, with the circle and the ecliptic longitude of objects on the circle (you can tell it to plot right ascension instead if you want), or the "ephemeris chart", which plots time on the vertical axis and ecliptic longitude (or right ascension) on the horizontal axis. 02:43:59 Some things can be seen better using the "harmonic factors", which means all ecliptic longitudes are multipled by a factor. This can be useful to see many things, on any chart type. For example if you use harmonic factor 2 in the ephemeris chart, you can see both new moons and full moons as lines crossing. 02:44:21 Node_492: i'm not really an astrologer so i don't remember clearly what the planets other than sun and moon represent. i notice jupiter is there with the moon opposing the others (except mars), i _think_ it has something to do with governing, being the king of the gods and all. 02:44:45 like the superego maybe? 02:44:50 i had my jupiter in cancer 02:44:51 which reads 02:45:03 in my booklet 02:45:04 JUPITER IN CANCER IN Cancer, Jupiter is in the house of his exaltation; and that sign being above all a symbol of pleasure, we may naturally expect that it will bring out the truly "jovial" qualities of the planet. This is undoubtedly the case; the native is good-humored, benevolent, and humane; the emotional nature and the imagination are strong; but the pleasantest qualities are more evident in the nativities of private persons than in 02:45:12 I am not an astrologer either. But I can tell you what interpretations are built into Astrolog, if you want this information. 02:45:40 yeah that's what I'm asking 02:45:41 Psychologically, you would ask, do you think that describes you or not? To what degree? 02:45:46 oh right i've forgot all about the astrological signs. 02:45:53 Certainly it can result in questions, if nothing else. 02:46:03 (well, nearly all) 02:46:03 no it certainly does 02:46:08 (questions to ask to yourself about your personality, that is) 02:46:13 I've been doing this for some time now 02:46:21 I just wanted to understand your guy's level of knowledge 02:46:30 like zzo's ability to read into different charts 02:46:36 I've never seen that 02:46:53 and I'm wondering why in the world would you take the time to learn all that 02:47:39 on that level, leaving all the astrology aside, it's applied geometry. 02:47:50 I can see a certain appeal to that :) 02:47:56 I guess 02:48:02 that seems so arbitrary to me 02:48:17 Well, we don't know much; this isn't an astrology IRC. If you want more you have to look elsewhere. But I can tell you only *objectively* what it means. I don't know about the subjective meanings of these things and am not much interested. Like they said, I don't believe in astrology either, but I understand enough to tell you whether or not you can actually tell your sun sign by your date (not time) of birth, and so on. 02:48:49 I hear ya 02:49:00 I'm just wondering why you even know all that 02:49:31 osmosis 02:49:33 I have in fact advised someone on this, since they were curious. On the day he was born, the sun passed from one sign to another, so without knowing the time of birth I cannot tell you what your sun sign is. This information isn't useful to me, but it is nevertheless a true or false statement. 02:49:52 right 02:49:57 Node_492: Because I was curious what the symbols on the chart meant, and I studied it, so I learned. 02:50:08 right 02:51:57 -!- Bike has joined. 02:51:57 it's so cold in here 02:52:17 And allows to figure out things. I learn astronomy too, but also the astrological conventions. Both kinds of conventions are useful, actually; most astronomers don't know astrological conventions (causing them to dismiss astrology for invalid reasons), and have no use for them, but a few astronomers find them useful! (Note: I am neither an astrologer nor an astronomer.) 02:52:36 so are we done with the dos now 02:52:54 yeah ddos is done 02:52:56 sorry Bike, dos is forever 02:53:02 cool 02:53:11 A lot of people in this channel do somewhat unusual things though, especially myself. 02:53:14 funny zzo, I studied astronomy in college which is why I'm interested in it 02:53:30 but you seem to know the formula for more than what even my professors knew 02:53:38 However, we are mainly mathematically and scientifically minded. 02:53:55 don't ignore the right brain guys 02:53:59 zzo38: do you think that anatomists dismiss haruspicy for invalid reasons 02:54:04 Node_492: The reason may be because, like I said, most astronomers don't know about astrological conventions. 02:54:05 or you'll creatively regret it for the rest of your dull life 02:54:06 :) 02:54:09 Bike: I don't know what that means. 02:54:18 what do you mean astrological conventions? 02:54:40 Node_492: I agree with you there; I do creative stuff too, and I do music too, but I am *mainly* mathematically/scientifically minded, not entirely. 02:55:13 awesome 02:55:14 Node_492: I mean things like house systems, ayanamsha, etc, which are all perfectly objective things. 02:55:24 wtf is ayanamsha 02:55:28 sounds like sanskrit 02:55:43 Ayanamsha is the Sanskrit word for the amount of the precession of equinoxes. 02:55:44 these are like astrological events right? 02:55:45 haruspicy is telling the future using animal entrails. 02:55:55 LOL 02:56:02 bike is a good guy 02:56:09 Bike: Not something I knew, but still I cannot answer your question. 02:56:16 he's kidding 02:56:54 hey zzo you do music 02:56:58 do you use a DAW? 02:57:06 Node_492: I do music, but not using a DAW. 02:57:18 so you never record? 02:57:27 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:57:39 Bike: i think haruspicy would be somehow analogous to astrology in this respect if haruspices [sp?] had somehow named the animal organs in a way similar to but subtly different than anatomists. 02:57:59 s/than/from/ 02:58:01 I don't have any microphone on my computer; I generally use Music Macro Language to write a text file and then compile it. 02:58:15 It is different than how many people work, but is what is best way for me. 02:58:18 -!- aloril has joined. 02:58:31 I study a lot of things. 02:58:35 wait wtf 02:58:41 you turn a text file into music? 02:58:45 Node_492: Yes. 02:58:50 interdasting 02:59:24 do you play any instruments? 02:59:30 Yes, I can play piano. 02:59:33 !! 02:59:34 nice 02:59:35 me too 03:01:31 do any of you guys use bitcoin? 03:01:53 `coins 03:02:01 i'm thinking of starting to accept it for my business but it's pretty lulz 03:02:02 y 03:02:44 I myself don't use bitcoin (maybe my computer is not fast enough to run it anyways) 03:03:02 I don't think anybodys computer is fast enough for mining these days 03:03:16 anyway also 03:03:29 I don't know if you guys remember but back in the day there were these folding services 03:03:37 with all the cyberthefts, they should calling it "yoursing" 03:03:44 where you would have your computer run cancer cell tests 03:03:55 and put it in some database or something for university research 03:03:57 Something I have said before is that, a purpose of chiromancy (a.k.a. palmistry) is to know what all of the lines on your hand are called. 03:04:04 anyway, prime kinda started it 03:04:10 seti at home, folding at home, rsa at home 03:04:21 but I was thinking of starting a coin that had some beneficial algorithm in it for research 03:04:33 for diseases or whatever 03:04:41 YES! 03:04:41 Node_492: Interesting idea. I wonder how possible it is. 03:04:43 seti at home 03:04:45 that's what it was 03:05:09 also 03:05:13 mining = searching for coq proofs? 03:05:20 hash algorithm 03:05:31 https://proofmarket.org/ 03:05:58 ooooooooooo 03:06:04 g e n i u s 03:06:10 that's basically what I'm talking about 03:06:17 but it's not implemented into the program itself 03:07:01 someone shoudl implement a system where people who are interested in making the world better can do it without worrying about food and shelter 03:07:17 yes 03:07:25 I mean essentially I think seti at home is pretty much it 03:07:32 I just thought if more people did it 03:07:35 it would be better 03:08:12 imo rational drug discovery 03:09:11 newsham: so how do inconsistencies affect that market? is there a rollback when one is found? 03:09:31 You can see a problem with the proofmarket system: https://proofmarket.org/problem/viewa/20 It allows you to prove false things. 03:09:41 LOL 03:09:45 the problem and solution 03:09:49 they really thought it out 03:10:09 proof of work: donate $1000 in real money to the UNHCR 03:10:13 okay okay 03:10:28 what about a seti at home type thing but you get paid 03:10:32 so there's an incentive 03:10:58 I mean theoretically if all those asic mining rigs were helping solve cancer cell algorithms, we would be far better off than hashing useless code 03:11:05 and killing our computers in the process 03:12:04 well all the asic miners *can* do is hashing. they wouldn't help with more complex computations. 03:12:38 Redefining False is like cheating though 03:13:06 (in fact I'd argue that they are a good thing because they make mining on general purpose computers unattractive.) 03:13:25 i assume the idea is that atleastyou'redoingsomethingcoin would result in asics that can test rotamers or w/e instead of hashing. 03:13:56 I see int-e 03:14:12 Node_492: bah clearly you should be rooting for tromp's new coin scheme 03:14:21 but I mean I'm sure they could easily make better asic chips specifically for something more beneficial like setiathome algorithms no problem 03:14:25 cuckoo hmm. 03:14:31 ehhh 03:14:39 I mean prime is doing a similar concept 03:14:43 I'm not rooting for either really 03:14:54 inte: beats me 03:15:07 I just think that collectively mining on a beneficial cause could be very important for the future of technology/civilization 03:15:13 how is seti@home data certified? 03:15:27 No False proofs in [ ] days! 03:15:41 i think some organization or university does it, the program was huge and backed/sponsored by many organizations 03:15:45 Bike: I suppose jobs are sent out several times, and there is no money involved, lowering the incentive for cheating. 03:15:46 Redefining False is like cheating though <-- wanted to `addquote you but HackEgo isn't here 03:15:58 no it's not 03:16:04 int-e: so that probably wouldn't work for pseudobitcoins. 03:16:08 it's like making sure your script has no bugs 03:16:48 node; like most things dealing with money, its not very beneficial for society ;-) 03:17:03 right but is asic mining really beneficial for society? 03:17:06 best way to be beneficial to society is to ignore money temporarily and work on benefiting society 03:17:41 does asic mining exist enough to have any effect on society at all 03:17:48 ohh yeah 03:18:01 it's literally driven radeon GPU supply through the roof 03:18:08 it hasn't been like this since 2006 03:18:13 newsham: Yes you are correct 03:18:19 even before geforce came out with the 670s 03:18:23 i don't think increasing GPU sales is much of an effect. 03:18:30 newsham you're absolutely right 03:18:37 but government jobs wouldn't get paid 03:18:48 and those oh so meaningless jobs will finally be truly 03:18:50 meaningless 03:18:54 i thought the point was asics were replacing gpus because gpus couldn't keep up either 03:19:05 inte: sounds like that "false" guy just asked the wrong question 03:19:10 yeah but you can't use ASIC for gaming 03:19:11 and someone found a "bug" in the question 03:19:12 only for mining 03:19:17 and more people game than mine 03:19:29 someone mentioned the other day that the bitcoin network as a whole does 2^64 hashes every ~10 minutes 03:19:34 that's a lot of hashing imo 03:19:36 newsham: my remark was prompted by the news item on the homepage: "Now using coq8.4pl3, which is not known to be inconsistent." 03:20:08 or are you saying radeon GPU supply is through the roof because no one buys them any more 03:20:08 yah that will be an interesting question if it is encountered. 03:20:25 maybe copumpkin will steal all of the agda bounties with his next proof of false 03:20:48 as someone indirectly paid by a government i suppose i should be offended 03:20:55 but i can think to myself: at least i haven't invested in bitcoin 03:21:14 no they bought all the radeon GPUs out 03:21:39 i dont find govt jobs useless. 03:21:58 you've clearly never met someone that's in social services for the state 03:22:02 i personally like roads and police stations and fire stations and public schools and medicare and ... 03:22:16 who doesn't? 03:22:25 you, apparently 03:22:26 i like agencies that make sure food is not poisonous 03:22:30 lol 03:22:45 and i am all for regulating financial crime 03:23:04 anyway who wants to read a paper on modifying game physics engines to research tertiary DNA structure 03:23:17 I like living in a country where getting into an ambulance can cost you $10,000 dollars and was built by the bloods of the native americans 03:23:18 i bet it's you, reading this message right now, personally 03:23:24 whome were raped and given diseases 03:23:30 to be rid of the land 03:23:33 so that we can install 03:23:37 imperialistically 03:23:39 ASIC miners. 03:23:40 our police 03:23:41 medicare 03:23:43 node: see, i dont think it woudl cost $10k if ambulences were run by the state 03:23:52 the only thing more efficient than socialized medicine is what we have now 03:23:58 err more expensive ;-) 03:24:03 freudian slip? 03:24:03 I've had my co-worker faint and go to the ER room with an ambulance 03:24:13 she literally had to sell her house to pay the bill 03:24:19 and move her family to another county 03:24:19 not true. i could charge you money for haruspicy to determine how you'll get sick. 03:24:32 fuck you bike your FNORDS are showing 03:24:45 Why are some of the Bitcoin script commands disabled? 03:24:50 node: i dont see how you're connecting that to govt jobs 03:24:57 what? 03:25:00 fungot: what do you think about showing fnords? 03:25:00 oerjan: let's do a crossover. aids is god's punishment for sinning" 03:25:03 that's how they're employed 03:25:14 fungot: i think you are not helping here. 03:25:15 oerjan: usually you write all occurances of " scheme48". is he blippo? srfi-news?) 03:25:19 they're employed by the very government that enslaved african americans, kept them as sex slaves, 03:25:24 raped the native americans 03:25:26 when you coworker fainted and went to the er room in the ambulence how much did you coworker pay to the govt? 03:25:29 and the south americans 03:25:32 oerjan: it did fit perfectly into the discussion. 03:25:39 oerjan: unfortunately 03:25:41 that's how we built the government that gives these people their jobs 03:25:50 fungot: talk about math 03:25:50 int-e: i just got that quote as a fortune. it's 03:26:04 fungot: say it, say it, what is it? 03:26:04 int-e: a fnord fnord one sector will be frustrating, too, except when i am 03:26:11 33 03:26:29 fungot: dronf. 03:26:30 int-e: eval ( remove ' a mylist)... remove is not defined in the same way as fnord ( fnord 03:26:37 Seeing a tragic lack of interest in rotating amino acid bonds, here. 03:26:49 go seti at home brah 03:26:59 fungot: your context has been poisoned. can you show us some brainfuck? 03:26:59 int-e: your code was going to submit in the paper can be used 03:27:14 int-e: word 03:29:06 Bike: I am curious what the point is, is this an easier road towards exploiting GPU power than starting from scratch? I'm assuming that the actual physics are quite different. 03:29:18 If you're not interested in physics engine modification I could link a few papers on artificial "bis-"amino acid polymers. I know a guy writing his own compiler for that shit 03:30:24 newsham: already have! 03:30:59 woot 03:31:13 int-e: i think they need things that aren't in a lot of chemical situations, like steric hindrance (roughly, collision detection) 03:31:18 chemical simulations 03:31:41 int-e: the physics are pretty much the same with what they're doing, just rigid body dynamics. i don't think they're worrying about breaking bonds 03:31:51 http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1003456 well anyway there you go 03:36:07 O, now I can see why some opcodes are disabled; how would they fix that then? 03:36:36 hax 03:36:52 whats that game where you connect together pipes and in doing so you're searching for mathematical proofs (without knowing it)? 03:37:10 wtf 03:41:43 http://www.cs.washington.edu/verigames/ <- there 03:42:20 http://homes.cs.washington.edu/~mernst/pubs/verigames-ftfjp2012.pdf 03:42:32 don't some of you guys wish the internet went off tomorrow and didn't come back on for 3 months? 03:42:40 it'd be a nice break 03:44:07 no. 03:44:16 LOL 03:45:06 -!- qwebirc4507 has joined. 03:46:18 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:46:54 -!- tromp has joined. 03:50:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:53:48 dude wtf 03:53:51 I tried dalnet 03:53:59 that shit is like IRC for yahoo answers 03:54:02 more like worstevernet, imo 03:54:07 seriously 03:54:21 I FEEL LIKE A FUCKING KIWI 03:54:30 AWKWARD AND FUZZY 03:54:43 LOL 03:56:42 hey bike 03:56:45 is your name Jordan? 03:59:46 Never. 04:02:43 I have done other way around, which is to make a sequent calculus that implements a computer game (such as sokoban). 04:03:24 ...... 04:04:35 I just realized 04:04:40 if you fall into programming 04:04:47 you will stay there 04:04:51 forever 04:04:57 don't forget, you're here 04:04:58 forever 04:05:17 nah. 04:05:25 I'll be gone tomorrow walking in the morning breeze between the trees 04:05:32 but you'll all need your coffee 04:05:36 i have a book of interviews with famous programmers. one of them's a composer now. nother one works at a phone company selling dialup. 04:05:42 Node_492: i think you mean "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity." 04:05:52 not really 04:06:12 no, you do 04:06:14 just the perception of the computer screen being the only thing you focus on in your room becomes daunting 04:06:33 that's our wiki motto, borrowed from someone else who came to this channel looking for esoterica. 04:06:47 lol 04:06:55 it's pretty pessimistic 04:07:00 but true in some sense 04:07:03 false in some sense 04:07:09 and completely meaningless in another sense 04:07:42 I mean don't you guys think it's fucking crazy? 04:07:54 to just sit in a room for hours and just stare at a screen 04:08:03 I mean don't get me wrong I do it too 04:08:13 but at some point I think to myself 'holy shit, this is fucking insane' 04:08:24 and then go outside or travel to another city for a week or two 04:08:35 -!- CADD has joined. 04:08:58 and I don't have a smartphone so I'm not in the meta-matrix of solidity 04:08:59 -!- CADD has changed nick to Guest52739. 04:09:08 but boy has it gotten bad 04:10:04 tis' 04:11:03 -!- Guest52739 has quit (Client Quit). 04:14:24 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 04:16:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:32:15 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 04:35:02 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:36:04 -!- Sellyme has joined. 04:37:26 -!- Speed` has quit (Excess Flood). 04:38:02 -!- boily has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:38:40 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:45:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:46:04 -!- zzo38_ has joined. 04:47:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 04:54:45 -!- zzo38_ has changed nick to zzo38. 04:55:58 -!- shachaf has quit (*.net *.split). 04:55:59 -!- Guest80757 has quit (*.net *.split). 04:56:03 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (*.net *.split). 04:59:06 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:59:33 -!- 23LAA7F88 has joined. 04:59:36 -!- Effilry has joined. 05:00:26 -!- Speed`` has joined. 05:00:29 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:07:26 -!- shachaf has joined. 05:07:26 -!- Guest80757 has joined. 05:07:26 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 05:11:49 -!- Slereah__ has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:52 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:54 -!- Speed`` has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:55 -!- 23LAA7F88 has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:55 -!- Effilry has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:57 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 05:11:59 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 05:12:06 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 05:12:09 -!- Guest77706 has quit (*.net *.split). 05:18:08 -!- Node_492 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:19:08 I am the real Node_492 hahaaa~ 05:23:31 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:26:32 -!- Speed`` has joined. 05:26:33 -!- Effilry has joined. 05:26:33 -!- Bike has joined. 05:26:33 -!- ggherdov has joined. 05:26:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:26:33 -!- Guest77706 has joined. 05:29:39 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:31:08 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 05:39:06 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 05:49:26 -!- mtve has joined. 05:49:26 -!- myndzi has joined. 05:49:26 -!- jhj has joined. 06:09:49 -!- shikhout has joined. 06:12:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:12:44 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 06:33:03 -!- qwebirc4507 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 06:50:02 -!- tromp has joined. 06:54:57 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:15:14 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 07:20:40 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:27:03 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 07:29:04 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:45:52 -!- nisstyre has joined. 07:45:58 -!- nisstyre has quit (Changing host). 07:45:59 -!- nisstyre has joined. 07:53:17 -!- CADD has joined. 07:53:25 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 07:58:03 -!- conehead has joined. 08:02:21 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 08:03:10 -!- password2 has joined. 08:05:51 -!- Sellyme has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:18:38 I know this program contains several bad stuff that could be improved, but other than the obvious stuff, is there a more efficient algorithm if costtab is known? http://sprunge.us/EOKM 08:19:16 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:19:16 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:19:41 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:19:52 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 08:21:42 -!- Sellyme has joined. 08:29:03 -!- ggherdov has quit (Changing host). 08:29:03 -!- ggherdov has joined. 08:29:05 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Changing host). 08:29:05 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 08:31:21 quoting Greg Kuperberg from Aaronson's blog: "News flash: While D-Wave threads debate whether snow shoes count as ice skates, the Martinis group at Santa Barbara lands a quadruple axel. http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.4848" 08:33:49 nice 08:43:28 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:59:34 Node_492 was interesting 09:00:46 i mean usually trolls don't first feign interest for hours and only then start talking about matrices of solidity (or maybe days, i ran out of backlog) 09:03:16 oklopol: sorry but i brought up the matrices 09:03:32 yeah but i mean the topic 09:03:43 he just didn't know the technical term 09:04:00 also he made it quite clear when he arrived that he was looking for the other kind of esoterica. 09:04:08 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:04:58 i see 09:05:01 `quote solidity 09:05:07 i missed his arrival 09:05:07 hmph 09:05:14 the bot has dissolved 09:05:29 3 months without internet... would give me plenty of time to read all the mangas on my phone 09:05:29 i actually still have no idea what the other kind of esoterica actually is 09:05:59 myname: hey no fair saying that when `addquote isn't working 09:06:20 myname: What mangas do you have on your phone (and how many)? 09:06:28 oklopol: well astrology probably counts 09:06:45 zzo38: about 100, i don't know most of them yet :D 09:07:03 I like the Akagi manga 09:07:20 oerjan: Yes, perhaps, maybe other divinations too? 09:07:23 as does jung, which was also mentioned 09:07:30 i'll add it 09:07:30 zzo38: sure 09:07:59 Akagi manga is difficult if you don't know Japanese mahjong though. 09:08:00 and alastair [sp?] crowley probably 09:08:14 i actually don't think a lack of internet would matter that much to me 09:08:17 aleister, apparently 09:08:25 oerjan: Yes, now I can understand what you mean. 09:09:13 obligatory stuff (imho) contains liar game, tower of god, the gamer, oyasumi punpun 09:09:36 pretty much all of my activities except this place can be done internet-less 09:09:58 zzo38: there is that crazy manga where people play mahjong against putin, hitler and the like 09:10:04 never read it, though 09:10:14 myname: Yes, I have heard of it, but never read it. 09:10:19 without a computer, i would be pretty much crippled 09:10:29 it's pretty famous for the super aryan 09:10:44 i don't even do math on paper 09:10:48 usually 09:10:53 gaspeth 09:10:56 I have a lot of books, pencil, paper, so I can work even without a computer, but far more slowly, and doing less things 09:11:42 http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Super+Aryan_5b4c58_4527514.jpg 09:11:45 * oerjan keeps a notebook in his jacket, but doesn't use it that often lately 09:11:50 I do math on paper, and various other things on paper 09:12:22 I often write unrelated stuff on the back of a paper which I have previously printed out from the computer 09:12:39 Sometimes even on the front 09:12:53 also, wth @ http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pItHDgP3A8g/T4kMyxhP3EI/AAAAAAAAAAs/rp62Rnb2O50/s1600/swastika%2Bhair.jpg 09:12:55 I like to reuse paper rather than waste it 09:13:01 zzo38: i usually do all research in my head, and then write the article directly to .tex 09:13:21 well a lot happens on a whiteboard actually 09:13:27 zzo38: i am really disappointed about the current price of the sony slate 09:13:44 i'd love to have one, but 98000 yen is ridiculous 09:14:23 Sometimes I do write things directly onto a TeX file but sometimes the things I write on the paper are never used elsewise. 09:14:35 And sometimes I am not accessing the computer, because I am elsewhere. 09:14:40 math is one of the main reasons i use paper 09:14:50 i used to write a lot more on paper before. i remember when i was little, my dad brought used computer printouts so i could write on the other side 09:15:47 (these were long reams of paper with holes on the side) 09:17:41 if i have to do a lot of calculations with numbers, i do use paper, like if i have to give homework sessions (i still don't know what the term for this is) for a linear algebra class 09:18:26 but for topology, measure theory, combinatorics of words, cellular automata, logic, automata theory, etc. you don't really need any external memory 09:20:17 (but maybe i just do very simple things) 09:22:26 Well, I do use it for math, but for other purposes too. 09:23:15 so... what the hell is a verigame and why didn't i know of that earlier? 09:24:07 For calculations with many numbers I will often use a TI-92 calculator, although sometimes also writing things on paper 09:24:13 btw Node's idea of doing cancercoin was actually pretty genius; also sort of obvious but i hadn't thought of it 09:24:17 oerjan, I remember those paper 09:24:22 Probably not the same paper 09:24:27 But the computer reams :) 09:25:14 Taneb: SORRY YOU ARE TOO YOUNG IT'S NOT POSSIBLE 09:25:46 It scares me that my parents met after half of my friends at uni were born 09:26:34 i used to make friends mostly with the >30 students 09:27:10 I probably made friends with over 30 students 09:27:17 Never counted 09:27:30 i meant people who are over 30 years old 09:27:45 :P 09:27:52 maybe you got that 09:27:56 I don't know if I know any 09:28:02 (yeah, I got that) 09:28:08 " It scares me that my parents met after half of my friends at uni were born" 09:28:31 My parents met in '92 09:28:33 doesn't that mean your friends are much older than you 09:28:39 i do not have proof that my parents didn't meet for the first time 9 months before i was born, but i recall no evidence against either. 09:29:05 oklopol, only by two or so years 09:29:09 i see 09:30:23 hm i may be tired i may be slipping into tmi mode 09:30:25 the oldies are usually alone, so we end up talking 09:30:54 also they usually have a life story, whereas people my age are like um i didn't know what to do so i ended up in math because i figured it's easy 09:31:18 I mostly made friends in the computer science society 09:31:44 oerjan: they do not have to meet 9 months before you were born 09:31:52 maybe your father sold semen 09:32:27 myname: i think the evidence is quite clearly against that version 09:32:58 like the fact they married. 09:33:11 Taneb: there are people outside the computer science society? 09:33:26 myname, yes, for instance the sci fi and fantasy society 09:33:34 Also the CS society here is tiny 09:33:39 i never went to any social thingies 09:33:43 Like, I wound up treasurer 09:33:50 during my studies 09:35:24 Also I probably ought to join the maths society 09:35:34 Or the sci fi and fantasy society, thinking about it 09:35:35 besides finishing assignments, talking to people is one of my main activity while studying 09:36:05 It's weird that I suddenly seem to have a social life 09:36:18 yeah :D 09:38:14 myname, are you a student? 09:38:23 i am 09:38:38 Where at? 09:38:51 computer science, what else? :p 09:39:18 I said where, not what 09:39:27 oh 09:39:32 fu berlin 09:39:37 :) 09:39:58 I'm at York 09:40:03 Doing Maths and Computer Science 09:40:15 which maths 09:40:18 all of them? 09:40:20 i have a pretty hard time finding a minor subject 09:40:50 in fact, it's practically the only thing (besides the bachelor thesis) that is left 09:40:54 shachaf, already it's not the applied stuff, and I seem to be heading to only half of that 09:41:07 myname, I'm on a joint course, it's 50/50 Maths/CS 09:41:21 course = ? 09:41:38 Taneb: math has way to much stuff i really don't want to learn 09:41:57 how many courses per year do you take 09:42:03 oklopol, 1 for your entire time at uni 09:42:06 right 09:42:21 because the word has two rather different meanings 09:42:38 i hate english 09:42:47 myname, I promised myself when I was eight years old that I'd do maths at uni, and so far I'm not regretting it 09:42:59 i promised myself i'd become a programmer when i was 5 09:43:01 :( 09:43:14 oklopol: you didn't know better 09:43:29 true 09:43:43 my father used to tell me i'd realize at some point that i want to do math or physics or something 09:43:44 When I was 5 I don't think I had much interest in programming 09:44:05 because his experience with programming was that it's mostly copying data from one spreadsheet to another 09:44:09 when i was 5 i don't think i had any idea what programming was 09:44:12 i started programming at 12 and sucked at that 09:44:20 i started at 6 or 7 09:44:26 when i was 5 i'm not sure i even existed 09:44:41 shachaf, did you want to be a philosopher 09:44:43 started making my own projects only at 9 or so though 09:45:06 I started programming when I was 12, sucked then, and I haven't actually got much better since 09:45:22 Taneb: :D 09:45:44 at least i don't do basic anymore 09:45:52 I think I'm probably gonna be a better computer scientist than programmer 09:46:31 that is what you want to do anyways 09:47:01 but i don't know how hard it is to actually work as a computer scientist without being a coding monkey first 09:47:38 ? 09:47:41 why would that be hard 09:48:22 if you want to be a computer scientist, just don't leave academia 09:48:47 i'd love to, but i am not sure if i'd be able to do that 09:49:38 they only have like a dozen or so people that may make a phd while working here 09:49:48 that may be, but i don't see why being a coding monkey for a while would help 09:50:02 maybe it will, dunno 09:52:01 i mean your time at the university is when you wow the professors and such and get funding for a phd, then rewow them with your thesis and publications 09:52:36 then you can become a coding monkey if you like, but i think you'll be judged by your phd time after that anyway, unless they already forgot about you in which case your situation is even worse 09:53:19 though i don't actually know whether it goes like that 09:54:09 just slum out a phd in relativistic quantum chemistry and then you can do whatever you want. fact 09:54:10 future will show, but i think other people are more likely to get hired than i am 09:55:12 Do you know how to improve the algorithm I had? Other than the obvious stuff, I just wondered if, having the constant "costtab" table, can allow any improvements. 09:57:18 zzo38, what algorithm? 09:57:43 Taneb: http://sprunge.us/EOKM 09:58:03 I know there are some things that are just written badly and can be fixed, but those aren't what I mean. 09:58:07 Is that C? 09:58:26 Yes 09:59:11 "is that C" made me curious 09:59:55 what the hell is that supposed to do 10:00:31 oh is it that printing optimization for the famicom or whatever it was? 10:00:36 To calculate the best encoding of a text string, where the decoder can be in one of three states 10:00:47 oerjan: Not for the Famicom, for the Z-machine. 10:03:18 In each of the three possible states, there is a different cost for a character depending on what character it is as well as what state will be next. 10:03:45 That is why there ix a 3x3x3 table; it is for the from state, to state, and character's state. 10:04:22 so famicom means the same thing as NES? 10:04:29 yes 10:04:31 shachaf: It is a similar hardware. 10:04:41 japanes 10:04:44 Similar enough that most software will work through an adapter. 10:05:08 software it counts 10:06:33 (Although sometimes the music won't play, due to an incompatibility in the cartridge header) 10:08:20 Do you understand what I am trying to make this algorithm do, now? 10:09:41 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:12:13 i remember our previous discussion 10:12:26 enough to remember the general algorithm, at least 10:14:07 -!- MoALTz has quit (Client Quit). 10:14:17 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:15:35 C microoptimization isn't precisely a skill i trust myself on. would it be more efficient to expand the table with dummy 4th rows so you can use bit twiddling instead of multiplication? 10:15:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Client Quit). 10:15:50 That is a good idea, yes. 10:16:00 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:16:27 But my question was if, due to the costtab table being the way it is, there is a way to make the algorithm more efficient due to how its constant data is laid out. 10:17:11 in other words, whether there's some structure in costtab you can exploit? 10:18:03 Yes. 10:22:55 ok so the cost is 1 when all of *b, s1 and s2 are equal. 10:24:09 Yes. 10:27:46 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:27:56 I am wondering if any of these things can be used to make the algorithm more efficient in any ways. 10:30:12 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:31:16 ok the tricky thing is that there's sometimes a cheaper way to print a character than changing to its preferred state, printing it, then changing to the desired end state 10:31:32 which i'm sure you explained the last time 10:32:07 I have already taken that into account in the table, actually. 10:32:38 yes, i thought so, but i only remembered it when i was thinking about why the table cannot be split up that way again 10:32:53 The case is if you are in state 2 and want to stay in state 2, but the character's preferred state isn't state 2, you can use the ASCII escape instead of switching out and back in. 10:42:57 The "Move everything to left" can probably be avoided by combining it with the next step, probably making it faster. 10:43:23 But your idea to avoid multiplication is a good one too, and I will do that. 10:44:13 i doubt the form of costtab has anything to exploit though 10:44:56 Ah, OK, then 10:45:41 However I also meant even if the costtab is still there, but maybe there still isn't anything to exploit. 10:58:01 Do you like SQLite? 11:02:45 hm i don't like your copying of the best[i] elements back and forth, each of them contains an array the length of the string doesn't it 11:03:00 sorry, bests[i] 11:03:45 Yes like I said it could be greatly improved 11:03:47 i vaguely think i discussed last time how to avoid that 11:04:11 There are several bad things about this program, which can be improved 11:04:18 That is one of them 11:06:03 Some things though, just cannot see right from this part of the code, since you cannot see that some variables are declared unsigned. 11:07:15 well i assumed next[] is unsigned, since that's the only way assigning -1 to it and expecting it to be larger than what you compare with, will work 11:07:46 Yes, those are valid assumptions. 11:08:43 The program does in fact work. But I am completely rewriting it in much better way, so for one thing, all of the in_row are precalculated (which is possible here) 11:09:02 this is a little tricky btw, the idea i have for avoid copying those arrays clashes with how you use *b values >= 3 for special fast characters 11:09:10 *for avoiding 11:10:11 Yes, maybe there is a better way to deal with the fast characters 11:10:59 Although I am not sure what it is 11:13:28 without those fast characters, you could change only bests[i].data[n] and not the whole of bests[i] at each step. 11:13:51 because the data[n] tells you which i was used in the previous step 11:15:02 in other words, let bests[i].data[n] store the s1 that is best at step n-1 for getting to s2==i at step n. 11:20:31 Possibly the fast characters could be completely disjoined from the rest of the algorithm, and added back in later (during actual encoding; it doesn't need to know anything about the rest of the algorithm). (The exception is the (ir[0] && ir[1] && ir[2]) part, but such thing isn't really ever going to happen, so it can be removed.) 11:21:27 oh wait hm i realized, you don't need to change that part anyway 11:22:05 you can keep the fast characters as they are, they're just a special code for s1 == s2 11:22:34 iiuc 11:22:35 Yes, they do imply that 11:23:02 so they still contain enough information to tell what the previous state in the chain is, which is all you need. 11:23:52 And for the cost calculating algorithm, the fast characters are irrelevant and the algorithm can act as if they weren't there. 11:24:04 right 11:28:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:30:42 And you are right that it ought not to copy entire arrays during every step; it only need to copy up to how much is already written, anyways. Especially since I will fix it not to use a fixed buffer length. 11:32:14 well my suggestion is not to copy anything other than the step currently being calculated. 11:32:55 Ah, OK 11:32:56 this will require a final unwinding step to calculate the array to return, though. 11:33:27 but it should be much more efficient than copying much of the array every time 11:34:04 Yes, clearly it will be 11:37:11 -!- kmc has joined. 11:37:21 -!- Bike_ has joined. 11:38:05 However it is copying possibly a different array, due to which cost is best being changed 11:38:14 Or maybe I just got confused 11:39:43 well i don't know what different array you mean 11:41:08 -!- atriq has joined. 11:41:10 One of the other bests[i].data arrays, for a different "i" 11:41:40 well i think you shouldn't copy those arrays as a whole anywhere 11:41:55 except possibly for returning the final result 11:42:19 -!- password2 has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:19 -!- Slereah__ has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:22 -!- Speed`` has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:23 -!- Effilry has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:24 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:25 -!- ggherdov has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:32 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:34 -!- Guest77706 has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:39 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:40 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:40 -!- jhj has quit (*.net *.split). 11:42:53 O, that is what you mean by, a final unwinding step. 11:43:08 Now I can understand somewhat better what you mean, than I previously did. 11:43:29 good 11:43:36 OK 11:44:40 Right now I am a bit tired though 11:44:47 But maybe tomorrow I understand better. 11:45:31 -!- Speed` has joined. 11:46:21 The Node_492 experiment is gone, will it be back? 11:46:54 int-e: I think that only remains to be seen, whether or not it is. 11:47:06 i'm also tired, i'm staying awake extra long to adjust my sleeping cycle to a more convenient phase 11:47:41 (I'd call it a troll except that I think for the most part it failed quite miserably. People didn't get riled up the way one might expect.) 11:48:03 int-e: we had to do some fungot therapy though 11:48:03 oerjan: it was konqueror and ie that were broken from the beginning of each function in that same language. 11:49:10 Yes. Thanks, fungot, beacon of sanity. 11:49:10 int-e: your model doesn't save the internal state. this is among the most plugged in initially 11:57:05 * ski started at ~ 6.5 12:00:33 -!- ggherdov has joined. 12:03:34 -!- jhj has joined. 12:03:34 -!- myndzi has joined. 12:03:34 -!- mtve has joined. 12:03:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:03:34 -!- password2 has joined. 12:03:34 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:03:34 -!- Slereah has joined. 12:05:25 "The TL;DR: Holy $#!t !! I finally can say with a straight face that universal quantum computers might be built in the next 2 decades (given adequate commitment of resources of course… but not more than the low tens of billions dollars, I dare say, which really isn’t more than 2 or 3 generations of new microprocessors these days). :)" 12:05:52 aaronson blog comment by bill kaminsky 12:06:07 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 12:07:41 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:10:06 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:12:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:12:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:13:21 -!- Frooxius has joined. 12:25:29 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 12:26:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:28:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:29:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:30:23 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:31:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:54:01 -!- atriq has changed nick to Taneb. 12:55:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:02:51 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 13:02:59 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:06:38 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 13:06:58 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:30:14 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:30:23 -!- int-e has joined. 13:48:15 -!- Galzu has joined. 13:52:18 -!- Galzu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:26:39 -!- yorick has joined. 14:36:54 -!- atrapado has joined. 14:41:09 Poor yorick 14:41:13 I knew you well 14:41:23 I knew him Horatio 14:41:38 dammit Slereah you did it wrong 14:41:52 I don't know William Shatner that well 14:42:08 Shakesman 14:42:18 On the other hand 14:42:25 There's a dude named Marty on freenode 14:42:37 I never miss my Back to the Future quotes 14:42:40 MCFLY! 14:42:57 Are you... Chicken??? 14:48:25 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf. 14:48:27 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 14:48:59 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:49:58 -!- int-e has joined. 14:50:09 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:14:19 Slereah, poor guy :P 15:25:14 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:25:30 -!- tertu has joined. 15:32:07 @bot 15:32:08 :) 15:37:34 -!- tromp has joined. 15:56:47 http://eccouncil.org/ 16:08:20 elliott: what's this, viral marketing for ethics? 16:08:44 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:10:35 a hacked site 16:12:29 is that so, looks plausible from here. 16:13:28 (IP address is 66.111.3.186. Is it the same for you?) 16:15:38 nah, you probably have 93.174.95.82. 16:17:48 ah, DNS not propagated for you? 16:23:27 Actually I don't seem to get anything suspicious from either IP, but perhaps I'm doing it wrong. 16:26:10 I get 93.174.95.82. 16:28:21 I was doing it wrong. 16:31:07 (I've now resorted to curl -H 'Host: www.eccouncil.org' 93.174.95.82) 16:47:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:51:23 -!- copumpkin has joined. 16:59:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:59:44 -!- tromp has joined. 17:03:40 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:08:57 int-e, looked hacked to me 17:15:17 Vorpal: DNS has propagated to here now (the zone lifetime was just an hour) 17:16:12 int-e, ah, so they defaced it by redirecting DNS rather than defacing the HTTP server? 17:16:30 yes 17:17:15 what is that about passports on the page btw? 17:19:16 maybe they got access to the info@ mailbox (mail is handled by google) 17:20:12 at least that's what the screenshot suggests: the shown e-mail has a passport scan as an attachment. 17:26:48 Hm 17:31:30 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:33:43 I think QUassel just gives up on reconnecting eventually :( 17:45:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:45:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:00:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:06:52 -!- hexagon has changed nick to sasl. 18:07:04 -!- sasl has changed nick to hexagon. 18:10:10 -!- shikhout has joined. 18:13:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:13:09 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 18:34:37 Sgeo, I guess you need a better connection instead? 18:34:52 I should log into the ADSL modem to check uptime 18:34:56 Pretty massive iirc 18:34:58 Vorpal: I blame Freenode, none of the other networks have been giving me problems 18:35:03 Except once 18:35:03 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:35:04 Fair enough 18:35:20 Sgeo, iirc they got DDoSed yesterday 18:54:26 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds). 19:01:25 -!- Bike has joined. 19:14:17 When I try to use the IRC PING command targeting pratchett.freenode.net, I get "services." in place of the name of the server. 19:15:56 The MOTD also says it is a services daemon 19:16:36 Calling the server "services." does work too. 19:22:28 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:22:52 -!- bitcoin933 has joined. 19:22:58 zzo38, presumably because it is the services? 19:24:58 Vorpal: Yes, it is sensible, but I would expect something else. 19:25:17 kay 19:25:21 The other algorithm I wanted to know, for my program, is if there is an efficient way to compile a dictionary of search strings so that you can find them a large collection of other texts? 19:26:49 I believe so, but I do not remember what the algorithm is called 19:27:41 zzo38, Googling "text search algorithm" (without quotes) found this as the first result: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyer%E2%80%93Moore_string_search_algorithm 19:27:50 Might be worth reading about 19:28:41 Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_text_search 19:30:44 Wikipedia is broke 19:30:53 Hm, not from here 19:31:01 Anyways, it isn't really a full text search that I want 19:31:02 Guess only certain mirrors are broken 19:31:11 Oh, then I misunderstood you 19:31:33 And since my program imports SQLite, if I do want full-text-search, I already have it. 19:32:00 But really I mean even substrings like "llo wor" in "Hello world", and so on, being case-sensitive and everything like that. 19:32:03 Quite 19:32:17 Then the first link would fit better 19:33:02 It would be, if it worked. 19:33:08 Hm 19:33:10 But I get a 503 error. 19:33:32 Try refreshing? It works for me 19:33:49 It doesn't work for me. 19:34:02 Not much I can do about that, try later maybe? 19:34:14 Yes, I can try later, like it says 19:34:55 It is basically an algorithm for speeding up linear text searching by skipping forward in the string when it knows there can't be a match 19:36:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:37:16 -!- Bike has joined. 19:38:16 I do think I read something about similar things in some book once 19:39:53 zzo38, here, this might help: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gUZbBziwUoEJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyer%25E2%2580%2593Moore_string_search_algorithm+&cd=1&hl=sv&ct=clnk 19:39:57 Google's cache 19:43:23 Yes, that's good 19:45:28 zzo38, there is a lot of links at the end of that article to other algorithms, might be worth checking those as well 19:46:10 zzo38, by the way, what is your goal here? 19:47:54 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 19:48:00 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 19:48:00 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 19:48:18 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 19:48:23 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 19:49:14 In order to find the instance of search strings so that they can be replaced by a code that references them, in order to achieve compression. 19:49:25 Hm okay 19:49:32 (I do not have control over the decoding method) 19:49:51 Implementing a specific compression format? 19:50:09 -!- Taneb has quit (Excess Flood). 19:50:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 19:50:26 Yes. I could make it to figure out which strings it should compress, too, but I don't know how to do that either, and that data could be entered manually too. 19:50:32 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 330 seconds). 19:50:40 -!- LoRdToLsToI has quit (Ping timeout: 330 seconds). 19:51:20 I'm no expert on compression algorithms, but I believe they generally keep a dynamic dictionary that can change as it goes along 19:51:47 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 19:51:49 And it generally is done in one pass over the input 19:52:16 Well, I have to use a static dictionary 19:52:30 That is a pretty strange algorithm 19:52:42 -!- filo3sofie has joined. 19:52:49 Although the static dictionary doesn't have to be any specific way; I could make it to figure out the best static dictionary to use, if that could be done. 19:53:10 Which compression algorithm is this? 19:54:11 It is the one used in Z-machine. This static dictionary is called the FWORDS table, and is limited to 96 entries. 19:54:47 zzo38, also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_coder (you can easily google the url to find the cache link if you want that) 19:55:35 I have seen that article before 19:55:45 -!- conehead has joined. 19:55:49 But it mentions about dynamic dictionary coders 19:55:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 19:56:30 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:56:38 As well yes 19:59:34 zzo38, this also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix_tree 19:59:56 Not sure how you would best determine a static dictionary though 20:00:04 Should be doable though 20:02:48 whats up 20:07:16 Wikipedia works now. 20:07:26 oh that's good 20:07:31 i didn't know it was broken 20:11:49 -!- Bike has joined. 20:21:48 -!- iamcal__ has quit (*.net *.split). 20:22:19 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 20:33:28 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:40:14 quintopia, only in certain places it seems, it worked fine for me the entire time 20:43:31 shachaf: you're not schaf, are you? 20:47:37 * [shachaf] is logged in as shachaf 20:47:37 * [schaf] is logged in as schaf 20:47:46 Sgeo, I would say the answer is no 20:47:48 Probably 20:48:07 schaf is actually sheep in german 20:48:37 myname is actually my name in english 20:48:47 shachaf: i know that! 20:49:17 that's the reason why i have it 20:49:32 i was like 12 and my uncle said i have to enter a nickname 20:49:39 couldn't think of anything 20:49:44 know i stick with it 21:00:36 myname, heh 21:03:03 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 21:03:12 -!- Sellyme has joined. 21:06:12 -!- boily has joined. 21:07:34 -!- Noldorin has joined. 21:07:40 -!- Noldorin has left. 21:08:42 good hangover morning. 21:10:16 FNORD 21:11:21 fnord is the color that only the blind can see 21:11:35 nicely put 21:12:45 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 21:13:12 -!- Sellyme has joined. 21:19:02 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:21:06 http://www.fnord.org/~arioch/ 21:22:22 what 21:23:25 A beautiful woman to suck my cock 21:26:36 bike 21:26:43 we know you're a part of the nick flood 21:32:00 or should I say aeshtaer 21:34:24 what's this about 21:35:58 bike has been internally sabotaging the group 21:36:19 pretending to be a decent member 21:37:03 I regret nothing. 21:37:46 1337 21:37:54 bitcoin933: who are you and what are you talking about? 21:38:04 Goddamn 21:38:10 and why do I recognise the name aeshtaer 21:38:12 I'm trying to play the first Might and Magic 21:38:21 Since it's on Apple II, it's quite a hassle 21:38:35 Slereah: do you have an Apple II? 21:38:36 slereah get your fnords out of here 21:38:46 Nah 21:38:49 But there's emulators 21:38:57 bitcoin933: who are you, and were you `relcomed? 21:38:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 21:39:10 bitcoin933: less noise and complaining at regulars and more answers please 21:39:25 i was initiated in 1989 21:39:35 before many of your were born on usenet 21:39:48 we've been using #esoteric as a congregation place for years 21:40:01 but finally decided that it was too risky and flooded the channels with programmers 21:40:33 so that our records are lost in a sea of programming jabber 21:41:04 many of us still communicate through this channel but not by text 21:41:11 but by reply time 21:41:31 we correspond reply times to concepts and communicate that way 21:41:32 oh, aeshtaer is just Bike's ident 21:41:42 yes 21:41:43 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 21:41:50 we've been following him for about two months 21:41:51 anyway cut it out or something idk 21:41:59 and we've seen him sabotage his own friends 21:42:51 none of this matters as what we started nearly 25 years ago will soon pay off this week 21:43:00 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 21:43:04 -!- elliott has kicked bitcoin933 you're really boring??. 21:43:17 elliott, since when do you have op in here? 21:43:42 since almost 8 months ago 21:43:45 Oh okay 21:43:57 Also who was that? 21:44:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:44:08 I couldn't find any log evidence they'd been here before, oddly 21:44:24 though they didn't exactly strike me as being here for the first time 21:44:24 Huh 21:44:42 Probably just some regular having a bit of fun by trolling? 21:44:45 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 21:44:58 then why have the first two parts of their IP never occurred before in my logs? 21:45:12 well okay, that is a good question 21:45:22 maybe they have a cloak normally? 21:47:29 Hm ~/Downloads has an interesting system. When there is to much crap in it, I do mkdir old && mv * old, so there is a nested structure of ~/Downloads/old/old/old/old by this point 21:47:35 I need to clean that up 21:48:14 find ~/Downloads -type f -exec shred -vuz {} \; && rm -rf ~/Downloads 21:48:30 -!- birch has joined. 21:49:16 boily! 21:49:29 birch: hi, bitcoin933 21:49:35 hey 21:49:43 is the nick change meant to endear? 21:49:56 no I just thought the numbers were weird at the end 21:50:44 `relcome birch 21:51:01 `welcome birch 21:51:10 quintopia: quinthellopia. 21:51:27 Vorpal: I do that with home directories sometimes. Hence I have such directory name gems as ~/__UBUNTU__/_MUST_SORT_/momusspace-before-crash/mnt/_NSA_MOVE_/music_unsorted/random/old/unsorted/ 21:51:28 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 21:51:28 right. the gregorbots are dead, so no `relcoming. 21:51:34 boily: would you like to grade my essay on computational complexity 21:51:58 For some reason naming a directory "_MUST_SORT_" never makes it get sorted out any faster. 21:52:33 quintopia: I'd like to, but I can't focus on anything longer than five minutes. I am quite hungover from yesterday. 21:52:45 fizzie, NSA_MOVE? 21:52:46 boily: sounds awesome! 21:52:46 smoke some w33d 21:53:25 Vorpal: A reference to a Zyxel network-attached storage box with the model name "NSA-220". 21:53:31 quintopia: nah. been throwing up for the past 11 hours. 21:53:41 no bueno senior 21:53:42 * boily mapoles birch 21:54:25 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpub%2Fsean-mapoles%2F5%2Fa64%2F6a8&ei=AG4KU-3_MITLkAfK_ICICA&usg=AFQjCNGhaNoSWUXc1xKt0iY7xdhg6DpIkg&sig2=NQ9Rhp_ZMej4m9Wifs3UDA&bvm=bv.61725948,d.eW0 21:54:33 fizzie, Well I guess we know where it reported to 21:55:00 -!- Sorella has joined. 21:55:23 purple 21:55:24 dark blue 21:55:27 light blue 21:55:28 green 21:55:30 yellow 21:55:31 orange 21:55:32 red 21:55:39 Vorpal: I'm sure it's just "Network Storage Appliance" or something equally benign. Incidentally, want to buy it? I'm not using it any longer. 21:55:51 fizzie, eh, is it any good? 21:56:22 Vorpal: Not really. They managed to not include a wake-on-lan feature on it (there's one on the NSA-220+ and the NSA-320, which are later models), for one thing. 21:56:32 448k 21:56:50 testing... 21:56:52 testing.... 21:56:54 testing.... 21:57:00 xcrp 21:57:08 four 21:57:09 four 21:57:11 can I get op for a few seconds please? 21:57:12 eight 21:57:17 fizzie, yeah... not interested 21:57:21 (it'll help me feel better.) 21:57:50 I LOST MY DONKEY 21:57:57 oh wait 21:57:58 no 21:57:59 there it is 21:58:29 birch, -_- 21:59:12 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie. 21:59:14 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +q *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.228.43.90. 21:59:18 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie. 21:59:21 yay capt. fizzie 22:00:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 22:00:52 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o birch. 22:00:54 birch: yes: 22:00:56 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o birch. 22:00:59 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 22:01:08 elliott: That was boily asking, incidentally. 22:01:25 oh. 22:01:29 I'm competent. 22:02:16 boily: Now see what you did again with your easily confusable name. Have you no shame at all? 22:02:50 I'll feel shameful tomorrow. all my emotions are set aside while I vainly try to feel unnauseated. 22:03:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:04:30 we should -q birch to see what other dumb things they say 22:06:03 -!- birch has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:06:04 `coins 22:09:04 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:09:07 ~dice 2 20 22:09:08 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 --- Sum = 32 22:09:34 ion: ↑ please accept this humble coin-ersatz. 22:19:55 Thoily 22:26:00 ~dice 1 10 22:26:00 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 --- Sum = 10 22:27:58 ~dice -1 10 22:27:58 --- ~dice sides [number] 22:27:59 --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 22:28:04 ~dice 0 10 22:28:04 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 --- Sum = 10 22:28:13 I feel a bug. 22:28:33 ~dice 1.5 3 22:28:33 1 --- Sum = 1 22:29:16 ~dice ⚀ ⚂ ⚃ ⚁ ⚅ ⚂ 22:29:16 --- ~dice sides [number] 22:29:16 --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice. 22:29:32 I feel multiple bugs. 22:30:00 * boily takes notes... “negative dice, fractional dice, complex dice, unicode dice...” 22:30:07 -!- brandonson has joined. 22:30:19 What about surreal and infinitesimal dice? 22:30:32 ~metar ESSA 22:30:32 ESSA 232220Z 21017KT 9999 BKN029 06/02 Q1011 R01L/12//95 R01R/19//95 R08/12//95 NOSIG 22:31:10 * boily amends surreality onto the list 22:31:20 ~metar CYUL 22:31:20 CYUL 232200Z 23012G19KT 30SM FEW060 FEW240 01/M08 A2978 RMK SC1CI1 SC TR CI TR SLP085 22:31:35 Today I wrote a program that converges on my phone number VIA THE POWER OF NATURAL SELECTION 22:32:23 Tanelle. 22:32:32 Taneb: GA? 22:33:03 Possibly 22:33:58 I didn't implement crossover at all 22:35:51 Also it isn't very useful 22:38:00 Especially as what it finds is written twice in the source code 22:40:09 I wonder what would happen if I tried calling Taneb... 22:40:28 Taneb: reminds me of http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/17294/golfing-a-weasel-program 22:42:51 I do something similar, but restricted to 11 decimal digits, with a 10% chance of switching to an adjacent digit (with 0 between 9 and 1) 22:42:55 And it keeps more than 1 23:27:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:29:19 @tell nooodl je nog hebt 23:29:19 Consider it noted. 23:47:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:58:31 -!- newsham has quit (Quit: Changing server). 23:59:16 -!- newsham has joined. 2014-02-24: 00:01:10 * boily sings “Aimai san senchi sorya puni tte koto kai? Cho! ♪” 00:12:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:24:57 -!- tromp has joined. 00:43:59 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:47:29 -!- tromp__ has joined. 00:49:39 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 00:49:39 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 00:49:40 -!- brandonson has quit (*.net *.split). 00:49:41 -!- Taneb has quit (*.net *.split). 00:49:43 -!- tertu has quit (*.net *.split). 00:49:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:50:27 -!- newsham has joined. 00:50:27 -!- tertu has joined. 00:52:11 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 00:53:45 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:54:50 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:59:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:43:54 ~fortune 01:43:55 Give me Librium or give me Meth. 01:44:09 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CLEAN CHICKEN). 01:44:12 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:38 i see metasepia also agrees that boily should take drugs for his hangover 02:02:38 2CELLOS – Thunderstruck http://youtu.be/uT3SBzmDxGk 02:07:11 :D 02:10:11 My YouTube favorites is broken 02:10:14 I can't seem to add to it 02:10:26 At least, it seems to let me try to add to it, but it never displays 02:10:36 And sometimes it shows as 100 videos instead of around 1,700 02:42:30 Would it be reasonable to stream games from an EC2 instance? 02:49:21 No. 02:57:06 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:38:42 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:39:06 Someone wrote to 2600 to apologize for stealing previous issues of the magazine. 03:49:15 copumpkin, oerjan, Bike: thanks for birthday wishes <3 03:49:22 :) 03:50:00 oh, you're back from guesthood 03:50:08 happy kmc++ 03:57:57 thanks 04:01:53 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:04:10 `coins 04:04:17 :/ 04:05:19 the love of money is the root of all evil, kmc 04:06:14 lol https://github.com/ruby-prof/ruby-prof/blob/master/ext/ruby_prof/rp_measure_cpu_time.c#L40-46 04:07:17 O_o 04:07:24 Yes, although some people say it wrong, by omitting "love of" 04:07:38 (and also ", kmc") 04:07:58 omitting ", kmc" is clearly abhorrent 04:08:06 this is what happens when Kids These Days don't learn how operating systems work 04:08:38 back in my day 04:08:46 that kind of shit did work 04:09:00 (uphill both ways) 04:09:21 lol 04:09:27 if you're on a microcontroller 04:10:00 a microcontroller that runs x86 or ppc 04:10:02 >_> 04:10:22 the intro EE class at my school uses an x86 microcontroller (sort of) 04:10:33 and ppc is popular for embedded too. what's a microcontroller, etc 04:10:58 I want a macrocontroller 04:12:00 Are there computers connecting peripheral devices (other than the primary keyboard/video/audio) with ethernet and TCP/IP? 04:13:18 A good idea would be to have one dedicated port for the keyboard, and the mouse and joystick are chained with the keyboard. 04:13:31 good old ADB 04:13:35 but USB can also do that of course 04:14:21 Yes they can, but USB has its own problems. Especially with autoplay and all of those things; the primary input devices should be a dedicated port, it would be more sensible, and faster. 04:14:37 what's bad about the code snippet 04:14:49 And make a smaller BIOS code to read them. 04:15:11 Bike: the argument to nanosleep is only a lower bound; when your process actually gets scheduled again is up to the whims of the OS 04:15:14 Especially if it is a code only to use standard input device and standard display, and a built-in Forth interpreter, then other things can be added on afterward. 04:15:25 it's also not even a lower bound, because it can be interrupted by a signal 04:15:32 a nothing 04:15:51 that's why there's a second argument from which you can determine how much of the time intervals remains 04:16:34 struct timespec ts = {...}, rem; while ((nanosleep(&ts, &rem) == -1) && (errno == EINTR)) { memcpy(ts, rem, sizeof(struct timespec); } or some nonsense like that 04:16:51 UNIX 04:18:52 memcpy(ts, rem,)? 04:19:39 why not? oh can you use the same pointer for both? 04:20:11 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:20:17 maybe i'm confused here 04:21:06 no, ts is a timespec, not a pointer 04:21:19 why not just ts = rem or something? 04:23:18 not that this is e. relevant to what you were saying or anything 04:26:36 yah, use ts= rem so the compiler inserts the memcpy for you :) 04:27:53 well, you probably want &s if you're memcpying? 04:31:35 yeah I forgot the ampersands 04:31:46 and didn't remember if there's some catch to struct assignment in C 04:31:52 but it's prolly ok 04:33:05 I think you can assign variables of struct types fine in C 04:34:18 -!- tertu has joined. 04:38:11 Bike: also the time stamp counter read by get_cpu_time() isn't necessarily synchronized between CPUs, and its rate may or may not vary with CPU frequency scaling 04:38:18 The game I want to stream from an EC2 instance is Worms: Armageddon 04:38:22 and a system call like nanosleep() is a perfect time for the OS to move you between CPUs 04:38:24 Doesn't exactly require fancy graphics 04:40:33 memcpy seems like a bit of a lie since the values will probably be in registers anyway 04:41:24 regfilecpy 04:42:46 well, maybe not in this case 04:44:07 not here, yeah, because you need to pass a pointer to the OS 04:53:03 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 04:57:39 -!- password2 has joined. 05:00:24 See if this game rules can be applied to a Go game; it would be really strange, compared to using with chess. http://www.chessvariants.org/multiplayer.dir/anynumber.html 05:06:16 [18:42] < shachaf> memcpy seems like a bit of a lie since the values will probably be in registers anyway 05:06:21 by the time you call memcpy it wont be! 05:10:14 Hofstadter's BlooP is equally powerful without IF, ABORT LOOP, and QUIT BLOCK. In fact, it works even if you also omit multiplication and comparison operators (although comparison operators wouldn't do anything without the IF statement anyways). 05:10:46 The same is not true of FlooP due to the MU-LOOP command. 05:12:01 Although maybe it is if you still allow ABORT LOOP only for use with MU-LOOPs; I haven't actually proven this, though. Do you know the proof of this? 05:26:42 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:33:50 -!- MoALTz has joined. 05:58:33 "_C’est la vie_, as Zeno of Citium might have said had French been invented before c. 262 BC." 05:59:29 Even if it had been invented, doesn't necessarily mean Zeno might have spoken French. 05:59:59 no, but it would surely have improved the chances 06:00:03 Yes 06:00:20 But I don't know how much 06:03:22 How slow is memcpy, usually? 06:47:46 memcpy is usually pretty optimized.. but how to answer that question? it depends... 07:02:42 I mean compared to other things, and compared to the length of the data 07:04:05 usually compilers have special knowledge of memcpy and can turn it into a fully unrolled sequence of movs, or rep movsq on amd64, etc. 07:05:10 But there is also non-x86 computers too, and even if it is x86 it may be 32-bit programs rather than 64-bits, and someone might want to compile for MMIX or JVM, etc 07:08:06 Most CPUs have movs though 07:08:10 Except fucking MIPS 07:08:14 I hate MIPS so much 07:09:06 Although it does have lw for memory moving, so nevermind 07:20:38 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:22:26 it's a load/store architecture like most RISC 07:26:02 i don't know if any flavor of MIPS has a bulk memory copy 07:26:35 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:28:16 ARM allows to load/store any-ish subset of registers at once, with auto increment/decrement too http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0204j/Cihcadda.html 07:42:29 kmc: that sort of feature's often used to implement a fast memcpy, isn't it? 07:42:54 or in particularly, a fast software blit (back in the days before GPUs were common) 07:43:22 yeah 07:43:52 http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.faqs/ka13544.html 07:43:56 also register save/restore for functions 07:59:00 -!- newsham_ has joined. 08:03:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (*.net *.split). 08:03:28 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 08:21:41 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:35:01 Possibly notably, the ARM bulk load/store instructions have been eliminated from the A64 instruction set. 09:35:28 Much like PUSHA/POPA from x86-64, come to think of it. 09:36:01 "The LDM, STM, PUSH and POP instructions do not exist in A64, however bulk transfers can be constructed using the LDP and STP instructions which load and store a pair of independent registers from consecutive memory locations, --" 09:36:09 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:36:20 (That's from the "ARMv8 Instruction Set Overview".) 09:58:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 10:06:35 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:19:01 -!- oklopol has joined. 10:36:45 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:40:36 -!- This_Guy_Here has joined. 10:48:03 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 10:50:13 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:58:04 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 11:02:12 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:03:35 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 378 seconds). 11:03:35 -!- 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13:44:22 -!- yorick has joined. 13:45:33 -!- Guest80757 has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 13:46:42 -!- copumpkin has joined. 13:47:33 !pång 13:47:34 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:47:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:47:56 -!- Bike has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 13:47:57 -!- newsham has quit (Write error: Broken pipe). 13:47:58 -!- filo3sofie has quit (Ping timeout: 491 seconds). 13:48:15 -!- lambdabot has joined. 13:48:58 @bot 13:49:01 :) 13:49:36 -!- filo3sofie has joined. 13:51:28 @bot or not 13:51:28 :) 13:51:49 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 13:52:36 all these netsplits make lambdabot unhappy. 13:54:45 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:58:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:59:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:03:18 -!- clog has joined. 14:23:39 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:41:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:51:33 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection 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17:15:43 -!- mynery has changed nick to myname. 17:22:25 -!- ggherdov has joined. 17:24:07 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:33:57 -!- Jafet has joined. 17:35:58 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 17:35:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 17:37:06 -!- Jafet has left. 17:44:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:54:22 -!- nooodl has quit (Excess Flood). 17:54:48 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:24:29 -!- Bike__ has changed nick to Bike. 18:27:07 find -delete isn't POSIX? :( 18:27:14 can't have nice things 18:41:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Excess Flood). 18:41:40 -!- nooodl has joined. 18:49:27 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 18:51:04 kmc: why not use -exec? 18:53:15 just more moving parts 18:56:34 so you just need to put /bin/sh into /usr/bin/find ! 18:56:44 you already have -delete, now just a few more commands 18:57:02 dont forget all of the other useful /bin/* tools 18:58:12 isn't -delete needed to stop people screwing around with symlinks? 18:58:58 perhaps. does it keep a handle on the dir its traversing? 19:00:03 -!- atrapado has joined. 19:08:24 -!- SCR1845-6357A has joined. 19:11:34 -!- SCR1845-6357A has left. 19:17:25 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:20:29 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:23:09 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:23:10 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:34:48 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:54:24 -!- atslash has joined. 20:03:51 I'd certainly hope "find -delete" runs on unlinkat(2). 20:06:54 Doesn't seem to be guaranteed in the (GNU findutils find) documentation, though. 20:15:01 -!- ais523 has quit. 20:20:11 I like -delete mostly because I still haven't figured out what the -exec syntax is 20:22:22 it's wacky 20:24:07 i have no idea how to use find, at all 20:25:22 Bike: it's a bit like prolog 20:27:24 -!- conehead has joined. 20:28:00 like prolog: it's wacky 20:28:19 * Bike nods, takes notes 20:28:55 find even also has a cut operator (not sure if it's similar to prolog's cut though, since I never got the hang of what that really did) 20:31:48 now I want to make a demonstration of logic programming using find 20:34:56 Bike: :D i always do "find . | grep filename" 20:35:39 myname: omg, doesn't even handle newlines in file names! 20:36:10 olsner: i do not have files with newlines when i am looking for something 20:36:15 so i guess it i okay 20:36:27 i won't use that in a public script, though 20:37:05 echo 'find . -type f |grep "$@"' >~/bin/ff 20:38:01 echo 'find . -type f -print0 |xargs -0 grep "$@"' >~/bin/fgr 20:38:30 olsner: -exec rm {} \; 20:39:38 fgr for "fucking grep already" i presume 20:39:43 * kmc uses ack-grep or git grep 20:40:38 git grep replaced most find/grep combinations I would've done otherwise 20:40:53 could be also "find-grep" or "file-grep" 20:41:13 i find/grep lots of src trees that dont belong to me which arent from git 20:42:29 also "git grep" is too long to type.. 20:42:42 good guy git grep 20:43:34 ok this is boring. NEW BORING QUESTION: you all know what a palindromic integer is. what's a palindromic float 20:44:09 whats the last digit of a transcendental number? 20:44:13 irrational number 20:44:34 does it have to be palindromic as a bitstream or as a decimal number? 20:44:35 what's the last digit of "1.0" for that matter? 20:45:12 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:45:30 i'm not quizzing you, i'm asking what you think it should be. 20:45:38 NaN should be a valid float palindrome :) 20:45:54 in the typogrpahic sense, i dont think the palindrome should be well defined 20:46:12 myname++ 20:46:37 integers in a given base have a unique typographic notation. 20:46:44 reals do not. 20:46:49 maybe infinite, too, if you write it with the symbol 20:46:57 infinite is not a number 20:47:02 also, 0 is in every case (binary and decimal) 20:47:05 it's a float 20:47:19 > reverse "Inf" == "Inf" 20:47:20 False 20:47:41 > show (1.0 / 0.0) 20:47:42 (even as 0.0) 20:47:42 "Infinity" 20:47:51 > let inf = show (1.0 / 0.0) in reverse inf == inf 20:47:52 False 20:49:23 ?let palinfloat x = show x == reverse (show x) 20:49:24 Defined. 20:49:31 > palinfloat 0.0 20:49:33 True 20:49:39 > palinfloat 1.1 20:49:41 True 20:49:44 > palinfloat 1.09999999999999999999999 20:49:46 True 20:50:37 i disagree with the last one 20:51:07 also: why isn't thehre a lambdabot for xmpp mucs 20:51:25 mucs? 20:51:35 multi user chats 20:52:12 ?faq can haskell code be abstracted so that bots can run across arbitrary chat networks? 20:52:13 The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that. 20:52:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:52:52 oh, there seem to be forks now 20:58:32 > 1.09999999999999999999999 20:58:33 1.1 21:00:42 kmc: also, could find (if you remove some boring things like -exec) be turing complete? 21:00:43 > 1 21:00:44 1 21:00:50 (perhaps assuming no path length limit) 21:00:50 > .99999999999999 21:00:51 :1:1: parse error on input `.' 21:00:57 > 0.99999999999999 21:00:57 0.99999999999999 21:01:02 > 0.999999999999999999999999 21:01:03 1.0 21:01:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:01:13 no! 0.999999999999999999999999 != 1 21:01:36 > palinfloat 4000.0005 21:01:38 False 21:01:44 > palinfloat 4000.0004 21:01:45 True 21:01:59 > palinfloat 5000.0005 21:02:01 True 21:03:05 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:07:07 Bike: what's the widest possible palinfloat? 21:07:43 iunno 21:07:49 > palinfloat 5000000.0000005 21:07:51 True 21:07:58 > palinfloat 5000000000.0000000005 21:08:00 False 21:08:14 > 5000000000.0000000005 21:08:15 5.0e9 21:08:24 > palinfloat 500000000.000000005 21:08:25 False 21:08:30 > 500000000.000000005 21:08:31 5.0e8 21:08:33 > 50000000.00000005 21:08:34 5.000000000000005e7 21:08:40 > palinfloat 50000000.00000005 21:08:42 False 21:09:33 -!- PanamaRed has joined. 21:10:01 > palinfloat (50000000.00000005 :: Double) 21:10:03 False 21:10:10 what to do with a .cabal file? 21:10:12 > 7e5000.5 21:10:13 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a -> b0)) 21:10:13 arising from the ambiguity check for `e_1750005' 21:10:13 from the context (GHC.Real.Fractional (b -> c), 21:10:13 GHC.Num.Num (a -> b)) 21:10:13 bound by the inferred type for `e_1750005': 21:10:16 eat that shit 21:10:46 > 7 * exp 5000.5 21:10:47 Infinity 21:11:14 makes sense 21:11:22 yeah, that's a pretty nice way of writing infinity 21:19:38 > 7e5000 21:19:40 Infinity 21:20:02 ) _ 21:20:03 FireFly: _ 21:39:39 shachaf: http://qdb.us/309823 You're famous 21:40:14 help 21:40:53 does it even make sense without context 22:16:54 What was the context? 22:22:01 Once upon a time, on an IRC channel far, far away. (that, or I don't get it.) 22:24:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:28:49 help 22:38:57 no gregor bots 22:39:05 `hello help <-- won't work. 22:41:47 fungot: maybe you can help out? 22:41:48 int-e: used it to build distributable libraries. i already found it. it's an interesting characterisation.. you may pass. 22:41:50 at least we have fungot 22:41:50 FireFly: if you put num first, you might want to try to make it 22:42:01 timing! 22:44:14 fungot: will you be here for us always? 22:44:14 olsner: sorry i'm slow, here. 22:45:58 fungot: just take your time 22:45:59 int-e: you wont have to bother packaging riatables for debian separately. :) at least i haven't seen any doomsday fnord in the last two black pieces and subtract the numbers on each row is being listed with the quotes 22:46:38 fungot: tell me more about this doomsday fnord 22:46:38 int-e: i could be wrong, but the drum and bass is at http://jungletrain.net. 22:47:09 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:50:05 -!- boily has joined. 23:11:16 -!- tertu has joined. 23:15:47 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:19:13 -!- tertu has joined. 23:25:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:26:16 fungot: have you firewalled your coffee machine? 23:26:16 int-e: i want to get 23:26:29 fungot: you disappoint me 23:26:29 int-e: i was wowing the yowing. i'd like to use sxml document transforms. 23:30:15 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 23:45:58 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:46:03 -!- PanamaRed has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:46:47 -!- Sgeo has joined. 2014-02-25: 00:39:22 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:42:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:45:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 00:46:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:58:18 fungot: hi! 00:58:18 boily: it suddenly occurred to me 00:58:24 fungot: likewise. 00:58:24 boily: interesting, but sounds hard to do 00:58:37 fungot: it's quite easy, if you practice enough. 00:58:37 boily: why does he want to do. i.e. you can't do a length and then a srfi 7* program would be faster, but it 00:58:45 fungot: but it what? 00:58:45 boily: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/ files/ in at most two digits"... hmm, apparently there are parents in the us it is very rare. there are an estimated" 00:58:56 parents? in this chännel? 01:09:50 -!- tertu has joined. 01:19:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:26:12 lol #dogecoin is bigger than #python 01:26:24 damn right 01:26:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:32:40 -!- ter2 has joined. 01:32:41 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 01:44:50 heh, I finally found a situation where if (foo() == false) is arguably preferable to if (!foo()) 01:45:05 :O 01:47:06 if (astNode.getValue() == false) where astNode represents a Boolean literal in the syntax of some language we're compiling 01:47:22 aha! 01:48:12 it's a quoted false in a sense. one might even call it metacircular :O 01:48:54 of course having an imperatively-named "getValue" method on an object representing an AST node is awful, but that's not up to me 01:49:15 * kmc -> afk 01:54:33 the False that can be Truthed is not the True False. 01:59:22 -!- filo3sofie has changed nick to Tolstoy. 02:01:15 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 02:01:19 ohai pplz 02:01:38 Do any of you want to hear some acapella music I made? 02:02:29 It's the second half of the Family Guy theme. 02:03:58 https://www.mediafire.com/?a7hjyi1ifocas27 02:04:07 If any of you want to listen. 02:11:32 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 02:14:02 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:15:10 -!- jhj has changed nick to trn. 02:15:36 -!- tertu has joined. 02:16:11 -!- boily has quit (Quit: POLARIZED SYNCHRONIZED PARTICULAR CHICKEN). 02:26:55 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:27:41 -!- Sellyme has joined. 02:33:24 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 02:35:11 -!- Sellyme has joined. 02:38:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:39:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:39:51 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:09 -!- tertu has joined. 02:56:38 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:58:29 -!- tertu has joined. 02:59:14 -!- ter2 has joined. 02:59:14 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 03:06:47 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 03:08:29 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:08:33 Can you design a RPG computer game in SQL? 03:08:52 No, because I fail at any task assigned to me. 03:09:35 O, OK, then don't do it by yourself. 03:09:54 Do you know how to program in SQL, or how to design a computer RPG game, whether or not you can actually do either? 03:10:29 No, because my mind is a broad sieve. 03:10:52 can you die messily in a painful way? 03:11:02 (just checking the general state here) 03:11:34 Perhaps, with the correct tools, but, I am not dead! 03:12:06 not a zzombie, check 03:19:26 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:19:42 -!- ter2 has joined. 03:25:35 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:28:57 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:31:24 kmc: you watching the fireworks? 03:50:12 bitcoin fireworks? 03:50:28 `coins 03:50:39 we lost HackEgo in the Great Netsplit of 2014 03:50:44 :( 03:52:34 kmc: yeah 03:53:52 why's it crashing? mtgox finally kicked the bucket? 03:58:55 Seems like. 03:59:13 "MtGox Resigns From Bitcoin Foundation, Deletes All Tweets From Twitter Feed" 04:00:44 kmc: they also halted trading 04:00:50 and blanked out their homepage just now 04:01:03 there's also a fake-looking (but who knows) document floating around that says they lose all their coins 04:01:11 so everyone is freaking out 04:02:22 Where does one watch the fireworks? 04:02:36 ##mtgox-chat or #bitcoin if you really want noise 04:06:34 I guess this is a representation of the fireworks. http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg2ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv 04:08:10 I made up some more chess variant: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MScatschess 04:08:12 http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoinbuilder/GOXBTC 04:08:17 that's a reasonable representation of some of the fireworks 04:08:35 copumpkin: heh 04:13:22 -!- ter2 has joined. 04:13:56 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:15:14 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:15:15 -!- olsner has joined. 04:16:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:16:54 It was power failure 04:17:22 UPS? 04:18:58 I bought one a couple days ago. They are nice to have. 04:24:10 I have a surge protector but the battery doesn't work. 04:24:42 I could not see the stars because the street lights were still working. 04:27:24 "GOXBTC" lolol 04:27:28 discount bitcoins 04:27:39 yeah 04:27:49 good measure of current trust :) 04:29:20 copumpkin: so for things to get this way, I assume there are difficulties moving BTC in/out of Gox, as well as USD 04:29:35 because the exchange is insolvent? 04:29:37 only out 04:29:42 well yeah ok ;) 04:29:44 and yes, people speculate that they're insolvent 04:29:51 seems pretty likely at this point 04:31:21 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to daddy. 04:31:30 -!- daddy has changed nick to copumpkin. 04:31:37 Daddy? 04:33:56 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:36:29 Do people ever get interested in non-live game streams? 04:36:36 I want to try streaming some Worm Olympics 04:37:48 We call that "Let's Play" 04:38:56 It’s a function of how interested i’m of the game itself and how entertaining your commentary is. 04:39:28 -!- olsner has joined. 04:40:38 Someone wanted to video my game too, but someone else said, it should be someone who want to injure himself with a knife, since those people should play my game instead. 04:41:23 what 04:42:44 what 04:44:07 -!- password2 has joined. 04:47:29 -!- hogeyui has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:48:57 -!- hogeyui has joined. 04:57:57 -!- Jafet has joined. 04:59:21 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:01:54 Some of the functors/monads/etc used in Haskell programming are also applicable to arbitrary categories. 05:02:33 Such as, the constant functor, is compatible with any category. 05:03:13 What are some other ones which I did not know of? 05:05:03 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:15:59 -!- tertu has joined. 05:22:04 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:22:37 -!- tromp has joined. 05:26:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:30:56 -!- newsham_ has changed nick to newsham. 05:30:58 -!- olsner has joined. 05:37:37 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:46:21 -!- chaiomanot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:52:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:18:35 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:20:23 -!- olsner has joined. 06:31:48 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:07:31 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 07:10:36 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:18:03 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:22:43 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:46:16 David Griffiths Lecture, Techfest 2012, IIT Bombay http://youtu.be/FY076-fEZ-s 08:15:03 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:15:11 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 08:15:39 -!- atslash has joined. 08:43:57 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:37:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:42:47 -!- yorick has joined. 09:54:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:58:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:00:59 -!- Sellyme has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:01:41 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:12:33 In order to encode some text the following table is in use: http://sprunge.us/gESV Is there a more efficient way to do the same thing instead of reading the table and interpreting the "instructions" in the table? 10:31:14 -!- hexagon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:32:32 -!- hexagon has joined. 10:47:52 zzo38: are you asking whether the table can be compressed? 10:52:01 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 10:52:26 int-e: No, but whether the program to read the table can be made more efficient. 10:53:49 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:58:06 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:59:56 zzo38: I'm not sure we've got enough context here. As far as I can make out, you have to read the thing, scan for occurrences of double quotes, and put the stuff between those quotes into successive entries of an array. 11:01:11 -!- Sellyme has joined. 11:02:14 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: brb). 11:02:24 -!- MoALTz has joined. 11:02:33 (In this particular table, you can also predict the offsets of those double quotes without much effort.) 11:06:22 -!- Sorella has joined. 11:09:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:21:11 int-e: No, it automatically figures out the offsets. 11:21:33 And the double quotes aren't actually part of the table, nor are the spaces; they are just used to arrange it to display. 11:22:47 I'll vote for "lack of context" then. 11:25:01 Wolfram Language is scary 11:25:51 -!- boily has joined. 11:46:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 11:48:59 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:48:59 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 11:59:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 12:21:30 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:24:50 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 12:27:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:05:19 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 13:06:41 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:31:01 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:47:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:49:56 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:09:27 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 14:10:55 -!- password2 has joined. 14:16:49 -!- Bike has joined. 14:18:06 -!- nisstyre has joined. 14:27:16 -!- tertu has joined. 14:30:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 14:33:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:40:16 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:40:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:40:49 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:41:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:41:13 hahaha omg mtgox is down 14:41:18 it's happening, finally 14:46:38 Phantom_Hoover: look at the page source 14:48:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:48:56 is acq short for 'acquirement' or something 14:49:16 acquisition 14:49:19 of course 14:49:19 right 14:49:48 apparently they disabled withdrawals some time before this happened though (/r/bitcoin is *hilarious* right now) 14:51:02 yes, that was a while ago 14:51:31 soon is probably a good time to buy BTC, by the way 14:56:51 assuming it'll go up again 14:57:41 i guess the ecosystem might've moved away from mtgox enough to absorb the shock if it's been that dire for that long, though 14:58:09 yes, mtgox had fiat problems much before it had btc problems 14:58:30 I don't think it makes sense for it to crash permanently because of this, but maybe people are panicky enough for it to 14:59:02 like, anyone with BTC in mtgox was already worried they might not really have that cash any more by this point? 14:59:12 yeah 14:59:31 oh well, there goes my dream of watching bitcoin burn 15:05:12 wow even in these dark times /r/bitcoin continues to MEANWHILE: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yutdk/we_are_witnessing_the_failure_of_a_company_the/ 15:25:47 maybe they'll reopen the magic the gathering online exchange 15:26:04 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Quit: Now what?). 15:26:20 (that seemed like a sound business to me ... ;-) ) 15:31:10 ooh, xkcd ... "webring" ... that brings back memories. 15:38:09 god, remember when what-if was interesting? 15:39:25 when it wasn't just a bunch of dry calculations to establish whether or not there are enough elephants to make an interplanetary burger chain 15:48:42 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:56:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:24:38 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 16:27:03 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:32:13 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:33:02 Phantom_Hoover: this gets funnier and funnier the more i think about it 16:40:56 -!- FreeFull has joined. 16:42:25 Wait, what page source? 16:43:03 I don't see anything particularily odd in the source of mtgox.com 16:45:09 it was changed 16:45:12 it used to have a comment saying like 16:45:17 fill in mtgox acquisition announcement here 16:53:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:56:12 -!- herny has joined. 16:58:57 Ah 17:01:39 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 17:03:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:05:09 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:06:40 Bike: did you hear about the part where they supposedly lost hundreds of millions of dollars through shit security 17:15:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:16:28 -!- Tritonio has joined. 17:17:41 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:22:28 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 17:23:36 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:33:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:36:03 When I asked the people who configure my DNS to make a TXT record, he said it doesn't have a field to tell you what subdomain to associate it to. 17:38:14 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:38:33 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:46:33 -!- shikhout has joined. 17:47:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:48:34 In case it helps, it is registered with GoDaddy. 17:49:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:49:25 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 17:53:20 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 17:53:24 ohai pplz 17:53:26 ELECTIVE Slustio 17:53:59 \o/ 17:54:13 I do not understand. 17:54:13 No, the bot doesn't work. 17:54:26 ELECTIVE Slustio was my Captchka. 17:54:36 Then, I tested that \o/ thing. 17:54:44 Where a bot would make the rest of the body. 17:55:17 Ah. 17:55:25 Didn't that used to be active? 17:55:38 Like this: 17:55:41 \o/ 17:55:44 | 17:56:01 |\ 17:56:04 I don't even know if that is the correct syntax. 17:56:10 Eh, I didn't get it right. 17:56:18 It should be arms of some sort. 17:56:25 \\o/ 17:56:30 _o_ 17:56:36 Grrrr.... 17:56:37 I have seen that some internet services at hotels and some stuff will not work except for DNS requests, until you pay. (In some the DNS might not work either) Can we serve the files through DNS records? 17:56:47 ... 17:56:53 No idea what that is. :p 17:56:56 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 17:57:02 ohai Slereah 17:57:11 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:57:21 I can see that myname is on here. 17:57:22 It's a script, not a bot \o/ 17:57:27 I guess it's not a work. 17:57:47 The same guy that made the MarioLANG interpreter and BF-MarioLANG converter, right? 17:57:49 Though it hasn't always worked at the beginning of a line, anyway. 17:57:52 myname? 17:57:59 No, myndzi. 17:58:09 Close, though. 17:58:10 Because didn 17:58:17 t myname do something like that? 17:58:26 He did the interpreter, yes. 17:58:37 (Note to self: Never press enter before ending message 17:58:37 ) 17:58:42 But the \o/ script was myndzi's. 17:58:58 Ah. 18:06:26 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 18:09:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:13:31 Guys? 18:14:07 Did you know that, every 7.79 seconds, an American Saggitarius named Amelia drinks a soda? 18:15:00 i'm pretty sure i read that somewhere recently. 18:15:14 http://xkcd.com ? 18:15:27 that's a pretty good guess. 18:15:43 Coz that's where I got it from. 18:16:14 Every 42.05 seconds, someone buys "To Kill a Mockingbird". 18:16:29 Every 1.82 seconds, a cat actually kills a mockingbird. 18:17:00 XD 18:17:02 boring. 18:17:09 the thing that annoyed me about that one was that they were not ordered by frequency, so i had no idea how long to wait for some of them. 18:17:29 clearly you should parse the gif files 18:17:58 as if that could decrease annoyance. 18:18:10 Here is a table: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1331 18:21:08 -!- Tolstoy has quit (Ping timeout: 279 seconds). 18:21:32 -!- herny has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:23:29 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:23:57 "Whenever you edit wikipedia, God kills a human." 18:24:53 -!- filo3sofie has joined. 18:29:12 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:29:30 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:34:12 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Quit: brb). 18:34:25 -!- MoALTz has joined. 18:36:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:39:23 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:41:46 Gregor: whither HackEgo? 18:45:51 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:05:05 -!- jose3 has joined. 19:05:19 -!- jose3 has left. 19:09:40 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 19:15:49 olsner: just look at the decoding in http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1331 19:16:26 olsner: I mean, come on, for more than a year now Randall doesn't write proper transcripts of his comics, but the explainxkcd community does, so look at there for anything like this 19:17:51 b_jonas: Why are you (a) repeating a link that was just pasted, and (b) to a different person than the one who asked? 19:18:08 fizzie: argh 19:18:22 I didn't see it was pasted, and yes, wrong nick 19:18:23 sorry 19:19:12 (I guess the latter is explained by oerjan sneakily sneaking out in the meanwhile.) 19:27:20 -!- password2 has joined. 19:33:26 b_jonas: now I know :) out of curiosity, what did oerjan ask? 19:34:13 olsner: < oerjan> the thing that annoyed me about that one was that they were not ordered by frequency, so i had no idea how long to wait for some of them. 19:34:17 olsner: that's what he asked about that xkcd strip 19:37:16 mmm, dogecoin explained: http://i.imgur.com/rPltYqf.gif 19:43:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:48:52 `coins 19:49:14 fungot: coins? 19:49:14 olsner: what version of stalin is that from? i don't understand 19:52:50 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 19:53:48 checking whether the C compiler works... no 19:54:13 did it still consider your environment "sane"? 19:54:22 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 19:54:50 heh 19:54:56 it's an android cross compile so i hope not 19:55:13 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 19:55:44 oh, through autotools? didn't think you could do that 19:56:02 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:56:25 hm? autotools supports cross compile yeah 20:01:52 -!- Slereah has joined. 20:02:31 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:04:26 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:06:47 fontconfig was only made thread-safe last year :/ 20:12:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 20:14:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:18:07 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:20:19 -!- nisstyre_ has joined. 20:41:11 -!- hexagon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:41:33 -!- hexagon has joined. 21:15:45 -!- conehead has joined. 21:17:55 -!- tertu has joined. 21:21:51 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:23:22 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:24:18 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:25:10 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:27:21 http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/02/24/steve-jobs-statue-unveiled-ahead-of-installation-at-apples-cupertino-hq 21:29:14 -!- tertu has joined. 21:29:48 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Quit: Now what?). 21:30:00 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 21:31:03 fatal: You are on a branch yet to be born 21:31:13 http://www.nature.com/news/publishers-withdraw-more-than-120-gibberish-papers-1.14763 SCIgen hasbeen busy 21:31:26 -!- kmc has set topic: fatal: You are on a branch yet to be born. 21:31:29 er 21:31:37 -!- kmc has set topic: fatal: You are on a branch yet to be born | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 21:33:28 fungot: You should try writing a paper about something. 21:33:29 fizzie: i entered nonlogic because it was quite cool. but i'm not on irc, and that's irrelevant. 21:34:30 fungot: You certainly *seem* to be on irc. 21:34:30 fizzie: that's like sooo much better than that, though rather painful and my nose is both clogged annoyingly runny. 21:34:52 Okay then. 21:36:39 clogged and runny, p. good combo 21:38:08 kmc: what were you trying to do? maybe birth the branch before somethinging it 21:38:36 just trying to fix my makefile :< 21:42:35 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:44:56 fizzie: i like how we can't even be sure we've got all the scigen. they walk among us, unseen 21:45:40 @tell phantom_hoover shit security, bad investments in insolvent mortgages... pretty much the same, right? 21:45:40 Consider it noted. 21:46:32 kmc: have you tried bonghits 21:48:34 Do you like this chess variant (one of the forms of Shatranj Kamil)? http://www.chessvariants.org/historic.dir/tamerlane.html 21:51:20 elliott: not yet 21:51:26 i'm at work you know 21:51:37 well, if they want that makefile fixed... 21:56:07 fungot: a paper on nonlogic, eh? 21:56:08 FireFly: heh then it's not defining it they're free to argue with that. 21:59:02 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:03:18 fungot: How come you sound somehow different than the usual irc style? 22:03:18 fizzie: this would be good to write a scheme program in terms of a compiler than manual memory management 22:04:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:05:18 -!- tertu has joined. 22:14:11 I asked before about strings searching, but really what I need is one that has multiple search strings, that search strings are preprocessed, and that the text to search in isn't preprocessed. I found some things about this in Wikipedia, but do you have more advice? 22:17:25 Would Commentz-Walter be better, or something else? 22:25:52 -!- Bike has joined. 22:30:32 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:35:18 -!- Zerker has joined. 22:38:34 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:40:10 -!- HackEgo has joined. 22:41:07 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 22:41:10 `coins 22:41:12 iotakercoin lahalixcoin karuacoin isccoin ><>coin lifecoin minifucoin slasscoin pasycoin etasismcoin eeblanzcoin wpcftioncitcoin owpcoin inscrecoin galcoin iricoin dhgcoin sincoin compcoin brackcoin 22:41:12 yay 22:45:00 inscrecoin 22:48:44 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 22:54:08 -!- tertu has joined. 22:57:35 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)). 23:00:12 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 23:02:02 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:07:06 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1yvczv/stephen_wolfram_introduces_the_wolfram_language/cfo7o8c 23:20:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:23:25 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:27:02 I looked at Wolfram Language; now they even say, the ARM version of Mathematica is now free of charge, and even the computer costs less than using the other computer. 23:28:44 However, it is slower than the normal version. 23:33:09 zzo38: how big is the set of strings to search for? 23:34:50 FireFly: At most 96 entries, although probably smaller. 23:35:02 The exact number of strings to search for is unknown. 23:35:50 And there are probably going to be many occurences of the search strings in the text. 23:39:52 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:41:22 -!- tertu has joined. 23:41:40 FireFly: The purpose of this is for compression. 23:43:55 I was thinking maybe you could put the strings to search for in a trie and step down the trie for each character you match.. 23:46:15 Maybe it would. I would need to be sufficiently fast, as the amount of text to search in is probably going to be very large though. 23:46:58 -!- shikhout has joined. 23:47:14 Welcome backego 23:47:57 The character codes only go up to 163, if that helps at all, although many of the codes aren't used. (There are actually some other character codes but they are ignored for purposes of compression.) 23:48:14 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:49:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:49:49 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:49:50 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 23:51:31 -!- boily has joined. 23:53:55 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/d158fc7f36a25e19791d25a55da5623399a2644f/fs/ext4/resize.c#L698 23:56:29 >.< 23:57:25 I'm glad that Rust allows debug-printing of any value, even though this breaks encapsulation and parametricity and makes baby jesus cry 23:57:28 it's fucking useful 23:57:55 GHC kind of has this via its "debugger" feature 23:59:59 @quote desert 23:59:59 EvilTerran says: We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the phantom types began to take hold. 2014-02-26: 00:00:12 kmc: that kind of thing should just exist in an unsafe module 00:00:17 and be standard in the REPL 00:00:19 not the desert quote I was looking for though 00:00:39 that's a good quote tho 00:00:43 @quote oasis 00:00:43 chromatic says: My productivity increased when Autrijus told me about Haskell's trace function. He called it a refreshing desert in the oasis of referential transparency. 00:02:23 neat, looks like chrome will actually keep allocating all available memory when you feed it infinite iframes 00:03:16 kmc: _any_ value? 00:04:09 believe so... fmt!("{:?}", x) 00:04:22 beautiful syntax there 00:04:46 it's not always /useful/ but it at least pulls apart structs, enums, etc 00:05:00 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:05:44 olsner: the format string syntax is close to Python's iirc (the newer syntax not the old printf-style one) 00:06:18 I used to rant so much about how format strings are terrible but I've sort of come around because of how important they are to internationalization 00:06:36 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:07:00 and that includes things like reordering parameters, which printf-style can't do (or can it, there's some scary shit in there) 00:08:46 I think gettext has something like that, %$1s or whatever the syntax was 00:09:25 `pastewisdom 00:09:25 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 00:09:28 ah! 00:09:37 good existential-Gregor evening! 00:10:14 olsner: ah 00:10:32 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:14:18 fizzie: fizziello. what were the emotions I was supposed to suffer from the other day? 00:27:06 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 00:27:59 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:30:36 I assume bitcoins are at a low these days? 00:30:49 WOnder if they'll recover. Almost tempting to buy a bit 00:31:51 what would /r/bitcoin do? 00:33:39 Sgeo: me too 00:33:46 olsner: mortgage their houses to buy more bitcoins 00:34:11 Although, guess buying from Mt.Gox isn't really an option 00:34:21 indeed 00:34:24 there are other exchanges though 00:34:34 it's already recovered a lot from yesterday's crash 00:34:41 http://bitcoinity.org/markets 00:35:03 I can find some information about some string searching algorithms in Wikipedia, but some of them don't give enough details. 00:35:04 http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp/comments/1yvm6v/php_can_do_anything_what_about_some_ssh_mtgox/ 00:37:40 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 00:37:49 ohai pplz 00:38:05 JWinshellow23. 00:39:17 boily? 00:39:25 `ello JWinslow23 00:39:26 JWinslellow23 00:39:32 Do you wanna hear acapella music I made? 00:39:52 Family Guy Theme. 00:40:05 I'm currently on the phone with my mom, but I could listen to it later. 00:40:11 OK. 00:40:15 boily? 00:40:21 JWinslow23? 00:40:26 Just bookmark http://www.mediafire.com/listen/a7hjyi1ifocas27/FamilyGuyJosiahW.wav for later. 00:40:32 I multitracked my voice. 00:42:21 Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't trust any exchanges with CC info 00:43:45 ohai Sgeo 00:43:49 Hi 00:43:54 I'm playing JS1K demos. 00:44:11 Whaddaya think of "Avoid the Pink"? http://js1k.com/2014-dragons/demo/1698 00:44:38 There's no laggin' with "Flappy Dragon"! http://js1k.com/2014-dragons/demo/1659 00:45:10 It's difficult 00:45:36 I'm trying to rhyme the names all the time. 00:45:44 Avoid the pink is well written. 00:45:48 Also, I could swear there were a million Flappy Bird like games before Flappy Bird, just with more connected tunnel 00:46:44 Sgeo: I believe you 00:48:23 Well, possibly, not quite one million. 00:49:48 Well, there were tunnel games beforehand. 00:49:52 And it is just that. 00:52:24 So why is everyone obsessed with this one particular one? 00:53:53 Because of word of mouth... 00:53:58 ...good graphics... 00:54:00 ...and... 00:54:03 ...BOTS. 00:54:04 * JWinslow23 runs 00:54:37 It existed a year before it became popular. 00:55:21 kmc: why is this MTG person talkijng about you? 00:55:22 "double sleeve, kmc perfect fits, kmc hyper mattes. deckbox or ultra pro sideloading binder." 00:55:34 http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1ywtxp/people_with_p9_and_other_expensive_cards_how_do/cfogm7v 00:55:51 If the exterior a product the disposition and the specification is changed... 00:55:56 ...EXCUSE us! 00:55:59 XD 01:02:53 * boily is still on the phone, but with a friend. 01:03:07 and chatting with two other people at the same time, and being on IRC too. 01:03:12 I AM TOO SOCIAL! AAAAAAAARGH! 01:10:38 I'll try to make a Flappy Bird clone for Atari. 01:11:27 Can you make up the clone for Famicom? 01:14:55 I dunno a language that compiles for Famicom. :p 01:16:08 I use a variation of MagicKit. 01:16:26 JWinslow23: it's 6502 assembly, slightly reduced. 01:16:35 I don't know it. :p 01:16:37 Decimal mode doesn't work. 01:16:41 I know Batari Basic. 01:17:09 JWinslow23: it is knowable. inhale the Knowledge. ask Someone who made actual assembly programs. (ie. not me.) 01:17:19 OK. 01:17:28 There is a BASIC interpreter for Famicom too 01:18:58 whenever someone says «OK», I read it as «O KAY», while hearing it in my head with oerjan's voice. 01:20:03 Oreja? 01:20:10 (Ear) 01:21:36 he he he. that's a subtle one :D 01:22:04 oreillan. 01:22:30 @tell oerjan you are not a Spanish ear. rest assured. 01:22:30 Consider it noted. 01:22:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:31:39 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:54:31 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CYS-HIS-ILE-CYS-LYS-GLU-ASN). 01:54:33 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:55:57 Do you know if GCC supports declaring anonymous unions at top-level code? 01:56:57 It would be a useful thing to have. 01:57:42 should be an easy test 01:59:48 Unfortunately it doesn't work properly. 02:00:48 It does not define an anonymous global variable. I want to do it so that it is like a union { ... } which is defined inside of a struct { ... } so it defines global variables that share memory with other ones. 02:01:01 Specifically, an array. 02:01:43 I also get a "expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'static'" error message. 02:07:40 -!- tertu has joined. 02:11:57 -!- filo3sofie has changed nick to vagabondo. 02:12:08 -!- vagabondo has left ("Leaving"). 02:15:04 I should try to wrap my mind around Idris 02:15:31 I think I kind of get the oh/so True/choose thing 02:17:40 Although it only really clicked after reading mailing list posts 02:17:50 -!- matrice64 has joined. 02:17:51 Which isn't to say that it actually clicked fully 02:18:07 is there not a regex for "the same character, twice" 02:18:08 i feel dumb 02:19:25 -!- matrice64 has left. 02:20:03 Bike: wonder if that would make it able to process some not regular languages 02:20:11 So, possibly an extension of the usual regex syntax? 02:20:21 welll you can do it with backtracking obviously 02:20:27 but i'm thinking about actual regular languages 02:21:05 i think it's regular? i mean aa is obviously a regex, and so's bb, and so's (aa)|(bb), and you then just extend it to all characters of the alphabet. 02:21:41 Then it won't work if the alphabet is infinite 02:21:52 the the function is interesting, in the sense that it's a function where Haskell would use syntax 02:21:57 -!- tertu has quit (Disconnected by services). 02:21:57 -!- ter2 has joined. 02:53:05 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:53:38 -!- nisstyre_ has joined. 02:54:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 02:57:13 Can it be made a chess variant (or other games) like that one? http://www.chessvariants.org/404.jpg 02:58:25 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:58:38 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 02:58:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:59:46 zzo38: so you want two global variables which occupy the same space? 03:00:16 stupid puzzle, making me wish i had a phrase dictionary to grep 03:00:28 zzo38: how many 404 are in there. There's the dice + O, which I find amusing 03:00:55 abcd cb abcd 03:01:58 kmc: Yes. 03:02:52 Sgeo: The black and white stones near the top make 404 in binary numbers 03:02:56 oh god i was thinking of a union-like thing and somehow was thinking cobol instead of c does this mean c is bad if a c feature made me think cobol 03:03:21 c is bad, so yes 03:03:42 The stones on the bottom spell "ERROR" in Morse code. 03:04:00 zzo38: neat (at both) 03:04:27 (I just noticed these things now, actually) 03:08:31 zzo38: so where are anonymous unions allowed? only within other structs/unions? 03:09:12 kmc: Yes, inside of other structs/unions they are allowed, and can be useful, even if they are empty, which is also allowed. 03:09:26 how useful empty? 03:09:59 They aren't usually useful empty, but it can sometimes be used if you just want the type but no data. 03:10:10 Or if you need to put data but none is needed. 03:10:31 Sometimes you may want a zero-length type for whatever reason. 03:11:44 you can do something like this maybe https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/9222833 03:12:05 i don't know if this violates GCC's aliasing rules or whatever else 03:12:18 what are the haps my friends 03:12:26 holy shit messages 03:12:34 oh in fact it doesn't work with -O2 ;P 03:12:42 OK, but I need variables of different sizes, some of which are arrays, and some of which also contain structures. (Well, I *don't* need any such things, but I do have uses for such things.) 03:12:52 yes Bike they are the same 03:19:15 damn right 03:21:14 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:23:40 Anonymous structures are also allowed in other structs/unions. 03:23:52 Sometimes I have them nested struct/union/struct/union/etc 03:24:01 (Although usually not that much!) 03:31:41 -!- tertu has joined. 03:36:47 what is the point of an anonymous struct inside a struct? 03:38:40 today I got into a discussion about C++ and I claimed that exceptions require far more runtime support than any other C++ feature, but is it true? 03:39:12 you can compile exceptions in a way that doesn't require much runtime support but it slows down your code everywhere, which is also unlike most C++ features 03:39:19 What other features require nontrivial runtime support beyond what's in libc? 03:39:54 I mean, there *are* global initializers, but that's quite simple to support. 03:42:43 Well, you can still assign to/from an entire anonymous struct? 03:42:44 kmc: Well, generally you alternate between structs and unions inside of each other. 03:42:54 Oh, wait. Anonymous. Right. 03:42:58 Uh. 03:43:07 Really weird alignment shenanigans? 03:44:46 * kmc thinks about whether RTTI requires anything nontrivial at runtime 03:44:55 I think it's usually just accessing tables output by the compiler 03:45:59 new[] / delete[] require the allocator to keep track of the number of elements somewhere 03:46:36 I'd call that pretty trivial though. 03:47:36 As in "literally just a matter of having operator new[] allocate space for an extra size_t" 03:48:54 yeah 03:50:57 although the C++ FAQ claims that some compilers store the count in a separate hashtable instead http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq/num-elems-in-new-array-assocarray.html 03:51:11 I... but... why?!? 03:51:22 makes it less bad to mix up delete and delete[] I guess 03:52:46 You could solve this by making operator new/delete do the same. :) 03:53:06 store the count? sure, that wastes a word per allocatoun though 03:53:32 Of course then mixing up malloc/free and new/delete is dangerous, unless libc and libc++ cooperate. 03:54:07 If libc and libc++ cooperate then it probably doesn't. (it's pretty likely malloc already does just that) 03:54:14 * kmc imagines an implementation where objects allocated with new get an (address/required_alignment) which is even and objects allocated with new[] get an odd one 03:54:30 pikhq: already stores the size? 03:54:33 (alternately C++ could implement its own allocator rather than using C's.) 03:55:10 well you can also overload operator new etc., which is part of why mixing them up is bad 03:55:21 Yeah... 03:55:36 maybe you have an object where individual allocations come from a pool and arrays don't 03:55:47 C++ is on-topic in the esolangs channel, right? 03:55:53 Some mallocs do actually store the exact size. 03:56:08 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:56:12 I think on Linux it's more common to not though... 03:56:13 the size requested by the application? 03:56:25 Hrm, no, it would almost never be that. 03:56:37 Size actually used by the allocation, sure, but not that. 03:56:48 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:56:54 word-per-alloc is probably not a huge cost though. 03:57:05 I'm not sure... 03:57:06 -!- tertu has joined. 03:57:14 definitely the C++ designers felt it was unacceptable to impose this cost 03:57:46 Well, obviously. Otherwise they would have had delete work on new[]'d things. 03:58:51 * kmc has written C++ for a machine with 64 bytes of RAM 03:58:55 but I wasn't using new/delete... 03:59:10 i just tried to explain continuous chess while drunk 03:59:14 it went surprisingly well 03:59:22 continuous chess-boxing 03:59:37 kmc: Course, at that point you're really writing a really weird dialect of C. :P 03:59:55 Well. I would hope. 04:00:09 Technically you still have a lot of C++'s goodies, like templates and such. 04:00:17 yep! 04:00:25 I don't think I came up with an excuse to use templates 04:01:05 And you could probably manage to have an object or two. 04:01:18 (global, of course) 04:01:19 yeah, I did (no virtual methods though) 04:01:32 or on the stack, if they're small enough 04:01:34 (... or on the stack, *shrug*) 04:02:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:02:21 hm, you need special instructions to read/write data from flash; perhaps that would be a compelling use case for a smart pointer class template 04:02:41 (and similar for arrays) 04:02:47 C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. 04:02:54 ^_____________^ 04:04:14 (well, reading anyway; supporting writing that way is probably a bad idea) 04:04:17 For any language, some feature of C or C++ is notably worse than in that language. :P 04:05:14 it's weird how e.g. you don't get to overload operator[] separately for reads and writes; rather you have to return a reference or some kind of object with an operator= and the right kind of implicit conversion 04:05:41 Although C does have some good features too. Unfortunately I cannot find a BLISS compiler. 04:05:51 kmc: horrifying you mean 04:05:51 :P 04:05:57 one of the good features of C is that you can get compilers for it 04:06:05 although this is also the cause of a lot of problems in the world 04:08:46 Yep. C runs everywhere. 04:08:54 For certain notions of "C". 04:08:55 :) 04:08:55 straight into walls 04:10:10 kmc: Yes, it is good that there is a lot of C compiler, so it help, to write C programs running on many computer. 04:11:37 `addquote C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. Although C does have some good features too. Unfortunately I cannot find a BLISS compiler. 04:11:39 1169) C and C++ have some bad features compared to BLISS. Although C does have some good features too. Unfortunately I cannot find a BLISS compiler. 04:12:14 But I have a documentation of BLISS; it looks to have some very good features which nobody has ever implemented in any newer programming languages. 04:12:47 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:13:04 -!- tertu has joined. 04:14:27 Have you ever looked at it at all? 04:14:32 Wikipedia also has a article about it. 04:21:38 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLISS_(programming_language) 04:22:11 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:22:49 -!- HackEgo has joined. 04:22:52 what are the best features? 04:24:16 O, I found a BLISS compiler that targets LLVM. 04:26:10 kmc: Macros, and the way the assignment syntax works seems to make a lot more sense, as well as its implementation of structures, literals, and I think you are allowed to put statements inside of expressions. 04:26:20 statements in expressions is nice 04:27:30 However it does lack some things, such as data types. 04:28:14 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:30:50 BLISS-M is a modern compiler, although it seems to be not quite the complete version yet. 04:30:53 another weird thing about C++ is that operator overloading isn't just sugar for human consumption; it's also how you make your "smart" things usable in place of plain C constructs within templates 04:31:42 the iterator "concept" is designed around operator* and operator[] and operator!= so that plain C pointers are usable as iterators 04:32:57 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:33:57 kmc: Do you have an example of that? 04:34:52 -!- tertu has joined. 04:35:45 well an idiomatic C++ loop (pre-C++11) is: for (foo::iterator it = obj.begin(); it != obj.end(); it++) 04:35:58 and this will work even if foo::iterator is a typedef for a plain C pointer 04:37:17 And what exactly happens if it isn't a plain C pointer? 04:37:32 -!- password2 has joined. 04:38:40 then the functions operator++ and operator!= are called on whatever type foo::iterator is 04:39:07 oh, if you really want this to work properly then you use free functions begin(obj) and end(obj) instead of obj.begin() and obj.end() 04:39:19 and those are overloaded to work on arrays as well as fancier container types 04:39:38 Yes, I can understand how it is working, now. 04:39:41 (one of the few weird things C++ does *not* allow is adding methods to existing primitive types) 04:41:24 I wonder if SFINAE means you can write a single template I begin(const T &x) { return x.begin(); } 04:41:51 Did you try it to see if it work? 04:41:54 no 04:46:34 Then you should implement it as a macro if it helps. 04:53:36 yes; it appears you can do begin(x) -> x.begin() generically http://codepad.org/x2QL4ISp 04:56:13 i'm not sure how this is supposed to work without 'auto' 05:00:38 Is there a typeof command in C++? 05:00:57 there is typeid() 05:02:34 Which does what? 05:02:41 returns an object with some information about a type 05:03:14 i suppose one way to do the above without auto would be: template struct const_iterator { typedef typename T::const_iterator ty; }; template struct const_iterator { typedef const T* ty; }; 05:04:37 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:05:06 -!- tromp has joined. 05:07:05 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:08:50 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:19:13 `coins 05:19:15 miintecoin nandocoin taligacoin zephawcoin sendercoin infucoin anemcoin oracoin whittcoin yencoin pbfcoin crangcoin halthnolateftitcoin rnacoin uriecoin lesznycoin niccoin lo'reravecoin cirtcoin hanibcoin 05:19:30 pbfcoin!! 05:19:37 rnacoin 05:23:46 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:25:59 (I guess the latter is explained by oerjan sneakily sneaking out in the meanwhile.) <-- *MWA DE HA* 05:34:40 @tell boily I don't know what you meant at all SORRY 05:34:41 Consider it noted. 05:39:00 -!- impomatic has joined. 05:40:04 @meltages-loud 05:40:04 boily said 4h 17m 34s ago: you are not a Spanish ear. rest assured. 05:42:16 Now I am trying to implement Aho-Corasick. I don't need to match proper suffixes, so I can omit that part. 05:46:55 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:47:07 It is part of a compiler to target Z-machine. 05:50:47 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:57:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:11:56 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:12:13 -!- tertu has joined. 06:32:24 -!- password2 has joined. 07:13:12 dammit 07:13:30 ah coincidence 07:13:37 (i mean, synchronicity) 07:13:45 (i just /whois'ed you) 07:13:50 you are having issues also? 07:13:52 oh 07:13:54 well 07:13:56 i am me 07:14:04 good, good 07:14:07 and i think my IP is down again 07:14:21 fuck those fucking fuckers, eh? 07:14:22 WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE THEN 07:14:31 i have two! 07:15:01 IF YOU HAVE TWO IPS, GIVE ONE TO THE POOR 07:15:11 hmm i guess i was wrong 07:15:16 i am the poor 07:15:39 ic 07:15:47 (ip) 07:15:52 brb gotta free up some memory 07:21:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:29:22 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:29:26 -!- ter2 has joined. 07:44:02 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:47:14 -!- oklopol has joined. 07:59:18 A crazy way to convert a 600mil DIP to 300mil. [LPC1114] http://youtu.be/n5LEEoskiaM 08:02:42 -!- MoALTz has joined. 08:18:18 Nice animated flames. 08:42:39 @ask boily whenever someone says «OK», I read it as «O KAY», while hearing it in my head with oerjan's voice. <-- wtf did you hear my voice 08:42:39 Consider it noted. 08:43:07 the voice of fridge logic 08:58:35 -!- Tritonio has joined. 09:01:55 -!- FreeFull has quit. 09:02:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:07:19 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 09:55:35 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:15:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:31:38 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:39:27 -!- budweiserz has joined. 10:43:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:51:09 -!- budweiserz has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 11:08:58 -!- budweiserz has joined. 11:08:59 -!- budweiserz has quit (Client Quit). 11:21:29 -!- boily has joined. 11:31:27 quintopia: yo http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/resplicate/TagResPair.hs 11:34:41 -!- test_pidgin has joined. 11:36:14 -!- test_pidgin has quit (Client Quit). 11:42:59 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 11:52:59 -!- yorick has joined. 11:54:22 @massages-loud 11:54:22 fizzie said 6h 19m 41s ago: I don't know what you meant at all SORRY 11:54:22 oerjan asked 3h 11m 42s ago: whenever someone says «OK», I read it as «O KAY», while hearing it in my head with oerjan's voice. <-- wtf did you hear my voice 11:55:28 oerjan: I never heard your real voice, but I know it is yours. 12:01:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: The Mystery of Ørjan's Voice). 12:05:24 ooh 12:09:06 -!- Sorella has joined. 12:32:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 12:39:41 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:45:03 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:03:57 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:30:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:34:13 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:56:40 -!- Tritonio has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:06:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:13:36 -!- ter2 has joined. 14:15:28 "The Centre of Excellence in Intersubjectivity in Interaction --" quite a name. 14:36:38 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Quit). 14:37:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:37:14 -!- Jafet has joined. 14:39:51 -!- FreeFull has joined. 14:51:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:20:01 -!- shikhin has changed nick to a. 15:20:07 -!- a has changed nick to shikhin. 15:20:22 i wonder what the shortest unclaimed nick is 15:20:52 there must be a 3-character one, and probably there are leftover 2-character ones 15:21:53 the shortest is a 0-character one 15:22:01 har har 15:22:23 [431] ais523 No nickname given 15:22:26 apparently not 15:22:34 431 says that isn't a nick 15:23:36 -!- int-e has changed nick to [. 15:23:50 there may be unclaimed two-character nicks where one of them is a punctuation mark 15:23:51 <[> registered ... but currently unused. 15:23:53 -!- [ has changed nick to int-e. 15:30:47 aha 15:31:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to [`. 15:32:02 [`: I thought there'd be one 15:32:18 are you going to register it now? 15:32:52 <[`> yes 15:32:56 <[`> THE CYCLE CONTINUES 15:33:24 will it be your default nick? 15:33:37 it's so unbalanced. 15:33:55 oerjan will be peeved. 15:34:47 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:35:03 -!- ais523 has changed nick to `]. 15:35:08 <`]> will this help? 15:35:12 <`]> (this nick isn't registered either) 15:36:18 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:36:24 <`]> btw, oerjan just proved respairaite TC 15:36:26 -!- nortti has changed nick to ^^. 15:36:33 -!- `] has changed nick to ais523. 15:36:37 -!- ^^ has changed nick to nortti. 15:44:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:44:54 -!- conehead has joined. 15:54:09 -!- Sorella has joined. 16:02:54 <[`> whats respairaite 16:03:37 ResPlicate with the repeat count capped at 2 16:03:51 and a few syntax changes 16:04:04 also the lengths are forced to be even 16:04:12 so that what's a repeat count and what's a length can be statically verified 16:09:42 <[`> i see 16:10:26 I did feel like there was too much power in resplicate, and that a tarpit version might be possible 16:12:49 is there any cap on the length field? 16:13:08 (is 4 enough?) 16:15:34 int-e: not yet 16:15:38 I guess that's the next step 16:15:40 anyway, time to go home 16:15:42 bye everyone 16:15:46 -!- ais523 has quit. 16:35:36 -!- Slereah has joined. 16:38:25 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 16:39:44 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:50:51 -!- JWinslow23 has joined. 16:51:07 ohai pplz 16:51:17 Anyone interested in Flappy Bird Atari? 16:51:24 Because I'm gonna make one! 16:52:56 -!- JWinslow23 has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:05 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:19:52 @tell ais523 Having [` and `] will only help if the people involved are careful in coordinating their comments hth 17:19:52 Consider it noted. 17:20:56 <[`> don't worry, it can still be balanced in the future 17:21:40 Perhaps there could be a `balance command that'd make HackEgo run through the logs and output the correct number of brackets. 17:25:39 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:25:56 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:32:38 Does this look a correct implementation of Aho-Corasick? http://sprunge.us/VSQi 17:39:31 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 17:41:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:15:37 -!- [` has quit (Quit: Page closed). 18:24:16 @tell oerjan i sort of kind of get the construction. I recognize the methods at least. I'll have to study it a while to fully grok it (so as to figure out how to get rid of the m=1 pairs :P) 18:24:16 Consider it noted. 18:30:30 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 18:30:59 -!- MoALTz has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 18:31:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:32:59 @messages-good 18:33:00 quintopia said 8m 44s ago: i sort of kind of get the construction. I recognize the methods at least. I'll have to study it a while to fully grok it (so as to figure out how to get rid of the m=1 pairs :P) 18:35:28 to be more specific, the only part that's not completely clear is the "anatomy of a core" part... and of course the haskell code since i don't speak haskell 18:35:53 but i'm sure it's just a matter of time and thought...your explanation seems solid 18:36:40 Do you know this Aho-Corasick? I found some slide-presentation and I want to know if you think it is correct. 18:36:58 zzo38: write a test suite, maybe? QuickCheck? 18:38:49 kmc: Yes, I can test it once I write the rest of the program but first I just ask if other people think it looks to be OK. 18:39:21 quintopia: it had to be haskell... ais523's eval hack was _screaming_ to be replaced by lazy evaluation :) 18:41:30 oerjan: well i am able to read it well enough to see that it should output ResPlicate directly...but the convert function is all greek. 18:41:39 @tell Vorpal Look, a macroSD card: http://zem.fi/2014-02-26-macrosd 18:41:39 Consider it noted. 18:43:16 fizzie: i didn't know you=photography 18:43:58 I don't (much) do "actual" photography, I just like these silly fringe things. 18:44:30 Stitched panoramas, time-lapse things, and as a latest thing this macro stuff. 18:44:52 "Whale slaps Nova Scotia woman in the face" should i read this news y/n? 18:46:13 ^bool 18:46:14 No. 18:46:18 fizzie: nice! 18:46:19 Apparently not. 18:46:36 have you seen bunnie's posts about microSD cards? 18:46:52 kmc: I had no idea the surface was like that, since it looks just textured-but-smooth to the eye. 18:47:41 Apparently I have. (I didn't recognize the name, but I did see at least this one run-arbitrary-code-on-the-card post.) 18:47:47 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918 18:48:04 The second one I hadn't read. 18:48:15 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=2946 is neat too 18:48:23 also the whole rest of the blog 18:49:38 quintopia: i suppose my design layout section doesn't describe precisely how all the offsets are calculated, just putting ? in most spots. it _should_ be possible to grasp what's needed without reading the haskell code, but still... 18:51:26 of course i am accepting further questions. 18:59:13 `log do we have logs 18:59:14 ​/hackenv/bin/log: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 18:59:16 nope 19:00:03 `ls 19:00:04 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ paste.1014 \ paste.11282 \ paste.11437 \ paste.12235 \ paste.12391 \ paste.12738 \ paste.13150 \ paste.13287 \ paste.1368 \ paste.14273 \ paste.14276 \ paste.14992 \ paste.1 19:00:06 `run ls paste.* | wc -l 19:00:06 41 19:00:09 Ruh roh. 19:00:32 wait what 19:00:40 I don't think pastes are supposed to go *there*. 19:00:49 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:00:51 indeed, what has happened. to the repository. 19:01:44 oh hm i suddenly have a hunch 19:03:09 fizzie: it was my `undo command, which is buggy about directories :( 19:03:20 `cat bin/undo 19:03:20 ​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -R 19:03:33 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:03:50 oerjan: hg is a hard mistress. 19:04:33 (well it's not my command, but my use of it had that effect.) 19:08:09 also, why didn't the change to quotes get reverted. sigh. 19:08:10 * kmc thinks about how to exploit the standard C memory vulnerabilites in Emscripten-compiled code 19:08:32 e.g. if my Emscripten app has a vulnerable libpng and loads a malicious png, the attacker could get XSS-like powers in the hosting page 19:09:36 `run rm paste.* 19:09:38 No output. 19:09:41 `ls 19:09:42 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ UNPA \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 19:10:04 `cat :-D 19:10:05 ​☺ 19:10:09 those pastes were all of the quotes database, anyhow. 19:10:20 wat 19:10:29 `ls bin/cat 19:10:30 ls: cannot access bin/cat: No such file or directory 19:10:45 `cat 19:10:45 er, there is a file called :-D in ~ 19:10:50 oh 19:11:00 duh 19:11:15 `run ls -l 98076 19:11:16 No output. 19:11:16 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 373 Feb 17 03:23 98076 19:11:32 `cat 98076 19:11:33 ​-- Hi everyone! 19:12:28 fizzie: i suddenly have this vague recall that bugs in `undo have been previously discussed - if only `pastelogs worked. 19:15:28 elliott: hey you made bin/undo and it hasn't been changed. do you know why it might wrongly dump things into the top directory? and also miss some files. 19:16:10 someone seems idle 19:16:58 `cat bin/undo 19:16:59 ​#!/bin/sh \ hg diff -c "$@" | patch -R 19:17:13 I suggest looking at the hg diff output when it breaks. 19:17:19 that, and reading man patch 19:17:21 beyond that, no idea 19:17:23 hm 19:17:28 shachaf: I think things like http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/73104/usenix05data_attack.pdf should still work, and maybe return-to-libc-style attacks, but not ROP (because there's no way to jump to the middle of a function, unless the JS engine has a bug) 19:17:49 I'm not sure why that's a "shachaf: ", maybe because I think you sent me that paper, but maybe you didn't? 19:17:55 `run hg diff -c 4468 | paste 19:18:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30692 19:19:12 `run mv paste/paste.30692 paste/paste-30692.txt 19:19:15 No output. 19:19:20 I discovered nested content-encodings today, turns out at least opera and chrome support it (up to obscene nesting depths) 19:20:10 this seems to be crashing IE D: 19:21:39 `revert 19:21:42 Done. 19:22:18 `ls -l paste/paste.30692 19:22:20 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 19:22:24 `run ls -l paste/paste.30692 19:22:25 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 5000 7586437 Feb 26 19:21 paste/paste.30692 19:23:19 Big file. 19:24:56 Seems to be a lot of pastes and a single quotes change. 19:28:37 yes. 19:29:02 `run hg diff -c 4468 | patch --dry-run -R | paste 19:29:07 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26081 19:29:24 I'm not sure why patch -R would put those in root when they're clearly in the "paste" subdir, though. 19:30:13 `run mv paste/paste.26081{,.txt} 19:30:15 No output. 19:30:48 That's what it seems to do, though. 19:31:30 `file paste/paste.26081.txt 19:31:31 paste/paste.26081.txt: ASCII text 19:32:04 Gregor: why doesn't it get shown as text in browser :( 19:33:04 I think it's some weirdness in patch -R when the "new" file is /dev/null, like it is for deletions. 19:33:10 oh right the lines in quotes were deleted entirely later, so there's nothing to revert there. 19:34:36 maybe hg has something that can do undo by itself 19:34:42 I wouldn't be surprised 19:34:54 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:35:17 FWIW, explicitly specifying the correct path stripping by adding a -p1 to patch -R makes at least that patch work. 19:35:31 (Can't guarantee if that's the case for any and all hg diff outputs.) 19:36:30 (Where "work" means creating the paste.X files in paste/ instead of ., nothing more.) 19:37:54 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:37:56 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:38:39 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 19:40:48 -!- yorick_ has joined. 19:40:58 Emscripten C supports "inline JS" a la inline ASM 19:42:16 hmm, not actual inline asm that accepts javascript? 19:42:24 -!- chaiomanot_ has joined. 19:42:37 olsner: It's pretty much that. 19:42:52 Even the macro to include those is called EM_ASM. 19:43:11 I think I used that for something. 19:44:25 what have you used emscripten for? 19:45:17 I compiled kissfft with it, and used it for an in-the-browser "turn an audio file to magnitude spectrogram image" and "turn a magnitude spectrogram image to an audio signal" wizard thing. 19:45:41 Except it's stuck being 90% done after I got sidetracked with other things. 19:46:02 The idea was that you could use that if you wanted to, say, draw on your sound in Gimp or something. 19:46:10 oerjan: i just assumed the ? would be filled in on the fly the same way the unknowns were in ais's. most of them seem to correspond to a linear function in c. 19:46:13 olsner: well it works by processing the LLVM output of unmodified (?) clang; I don't know exactly how inline ASM is propagated through LLVM but it might upset clang 19:46:41 -!- Speed`` has joined. 19:47:11 looks like EM_ASM(2+2) => emscripten_asm_const("2+2") and the LLVM-reading backend will turn that function call back into JS 19:47:22 this all counts as esoprogramming right? 19:47:36 -!- Slereah has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:37 -!- nooodl has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:38 -!- Sorella has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:40 -!- yorick has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:42 -!- chaiomanot has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:44 -!- sebbu has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:45 -!- Speed` has quit (*.net *.split). 19:47:46 * Bike reads last three lines in isolation. yes, yes it does 19:48:05 I always thought of Emscripten as a really clever and amusing esoprogramming hack and so I was kind of terrified when I learned that Mozilla is nearly betting the company on it 19:48:29 but (with asm.js) it works far, far better than it has any right to 19:48:35 I was about to say that you might be hurting the feelings of the emscripten folks by calling it esoprogramming. 19:48:43 kmc: how is it nearly betting the company on it? 19:49:00 -!- yorick_ has changed nick to yorick. 19:49:40 as in, you can get a million line commercial AAA game engine running with good performance in a week 19:49:57 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:51:31 elliott: well moving more kinds of content to the web platform is a major goal 19:51:52 quintopia: being haskell, they're filled out lazily. and yes the functions are linear, somewhat in c but also in i, the current state index. 19:51:54 and Emscripten+asm.js is the approach for doing this for high performance graphics-intensive "native" apps, i.e. games 19:52:18 -!- ski has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 19:52:18 without expecting game publishers to do a ton of work 19:53:19 kmc: how does shumway fit into that picture? 19:53:27 the goal is that porting a game to run in Firefox is no harder than porting it to another console / mobile OS 19:53:34 what if you just emscriptenned lightspark or something :3 19:53:37 (which is especially important now that Firefox is a mobile OS) 19:54:12 elliott: ha well that's how I got to thinking about exploits; what if we could just get Adobe to give us the source to Flash (as they have for Google and apparently Microsoft) and we compile it to JS 19:54:26 but fuck that, Shumway is much cooler 19:54:30 can't you just write an x86 -> asm.js compiler 19:54:31 :3 19:54:41 -!- Sorella has joined. 19:56:21 ;_; 19:56:33 can't we just use http://bellard.org/jslinux/ 19:56:46 FABRICE BELLARD HAS A POSSE 19:59:17 I'm actually kinda serious 19:59:24 like that could be a nacl type dealie 19:59:39 if you can do C -> asm.js it's probably feasible to do x86 -> asm.js to some degree? 20:00:08 sure 20:00:25 but: flash is way too slow anyway, I don't see even emscripten with the source code as viable?? 20:00:32 especially for video decoding 20:00:59 yeah I don't know how Shumway handles / will handle video 20:01:04 -!- Bike_ has joined. 20:01:05 that seems like an important use case 20:01:16 YouTube may embrace HTML5 but there is a long tail of video sites that don't give a shit 20:01:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:30 -!- Sorella has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:30 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:31 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:32 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:34 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:01:40 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:01:43 especially the ones providing the kind of... video content that has historically played a huge role in technology adoption 20:01:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Changing host). 20:01:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:01:59 I'm sure some porn site has advertised HTML5 support. 20:02:16 well, firefox can do H.264 and stuff now because of binary blobs, right? 20:02:26 probably *faster* than flash can -_- 20:02:45 oh I guess all the sites that support iOS will have a non-Flash version 20:02:52 -!- Guest23510 has joined. 20:02:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:03:18 -!- yorick has joined. 20:03:20 -!- Sorella has joined. 20:03:21 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:05:31 -!- Sorella has quit (Client Quit). 20:06:21 -!- yorick has joined. 20:09:51 -!- Guest23510 has changed nick to JZTech101. 20:09:52 -!- JZTech101 has quit (Changing host). 20:09:52 -!- JZTech101 has joined. 20:12:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:08 quintopia: mind you, it's not as on the fly as it _could_ have been, i do use explicit formulas for stuff. but before i realized anything else was overkill, at one point i considered making a label-tracking monad. 20:18:48 -!- Sprocklem has quit (*.net *.split). 20:19:48 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:23:36 YouTube's "embracing" of HTML5 seems p. flaky. 20:24:01 Anecdotally speaking, I've been getting a lot more Flash videos than HTML5 videos lately, even having opted-in. 20:24:14 probably because of ads 20:24:38 (It's easy to notice, because Flash defullscreens when I move focus to another monitor, while the HTML5 player doesn't.) 20:27:39 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:31:14 Does anyone live near Nottingham, UK? http://geekup.org/events/385/ 20:31:29 "Peter Cooper presents a quick tour of the long history of robot-based programming games" 20:34:06 fizzie: same. they've had this beta for what, months 20:34:26 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:35:08 the hams hex and notting 20:35:20 Bike_: http://youtube-global.blogspot.fi/2010/01/introducing-youtube-html5-supported.html -- four years and a bit. 20:35:57 Better safe than sorry, y'see. 20:36:06 cripes. 20:36:09 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 20:36:16 I was going to say "years" but i figured i must be exaggreating 20:37:25 kmc: don't forget birming 20:38:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:39:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:39:12 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:41:10 are there #esotericans in the ham of birming? 20:41:51 ais523 20:41:56 oh 20:42:15 how many hams are there? 20:42:42 a lot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_forms_in_place_names_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_Ireland 20:43:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:43:21 it's an old english word meaning "farm" or "homestead" 20:43:28 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:28 i suppose that the modern word "hamlet" is related 20:43:36 -!- clog has joined. 20:43:44 hamlet sounds like it means small ham 20:44:44 that or a port or harbour 20:49:08 news ham 20:49:34 are you telling me you're not a sham 20:49:37 i feel... betrayed 20:50:01 just a n00b in the shire, i'm afraid 20:50:15 is the sham that you're not a sham 20:50:28 ceci n'est pas une sham 20:54:59 kmc> the hams hex and notting Well, dur 20:55:03 newsh am i 20:55:29 ic what you did there 20:56:36 I don't see it 20:58:23 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:58:50 try standing on your head and reading it upsdie down 20:59:14 -!- augur has joined. 21:01:21 way smeu? 21:02:29 btw i was speaking to Taneb hth 21:04:16 ok 21:04:50 You know, I don't think I know anyone actually from York 21:06:37 maybe there aren't any. 21:06:53 perhaps everyone in york is from elsewhere. 21:07:03 That seems likely 21:07:15 fun fact: York used to be known as Amsterdam 21:07:50 :D 21:08:54 i think ic what you did there, except on the incredibly unlikely chance that it's literally true. 21:09:14 (oerjan, it is not literally true) 21:09:21 good, good 21:09:25 (York was known as Eboracum, then later Jorvik) 21:10:23 oerjan: if so, it wouldn't be a fun fact 21:10:40 olsner: O KAY 21:11:11 `? fun fact 21:11:11 fun fact 0 = 1 | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) 21:11:41 ocaml? 21:11:46 `? York 21:11:47 York? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 21:11:50 This sentence is (not?) a fun fact when preceded by fun fact. 21:12:03 `learn York used to be known as Amsterdam. 21:12:05 I knew that. 21:12:40 what was portishead known as before? 21:12:50 portishoulders 21:12:57 "even old new york was once new amsterdam" 21:18:18 -!- jix has joined. 21:20:34 -!- jix_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:20:35 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:20:36 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:24:21 -!- myname has joined. 21:25:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: That's nobody's business but the Turks). 21:33:02 -!- ggherdov has joined. 21:35:25 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 21:35:46 -!- lifthras1ir has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:36:16 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:36:23 -!- Gregor has joined. 21:54:35 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:47 -!- augur has joined. 22:01:58 -!- mm_ has joined. 22:02:41 -!- mm_ has quit (Client Quit). 22:20:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:20:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:20:50 -!- augur has joined. 22:21:42 fungotty evening 22:21:43 FireFly: you are using mit scheme. :) for me, 22:21:59 fungot: I actually haven't tried MIT Scheme 22:21:59 FireFly: interesting comparison :) congradulations." --olin shivers' original papers on scsh, so that *it* gets the job done 22:24:29 -!- augur_ has joined. 22:24:41 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:25:49 FireFly: I think fungot's implying you should. 22:25:50 fizzie: say hello, world!" looks like thorn. he's also my advisor... i'm fucked)) 22:26:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:26:15 Oh 22:27:54 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:47:05 If anyone is in Vienna, there's a Core War workshop at Metalab on Friday :-) 23:09:25 -!- augur has joined. 23:11:39 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:13:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:17:01 -!- augur has joined. 23:18:12 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:33:12 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:34:23 `coins 23:34:25 lircoin bridictagcoin merecoin smatiocoin sorycoin bryotcoin basecomcoin oracoin inecoin reverdenitumcoin ischecoin bubbllcoin lakadeliuacoin mosteputrcoin vcoin netinuscoin gotcoin pooncoin mempocoin falcoin 23:37:25 http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/fizzbuzz.htm 23:40:55 -!- augur has joined. 23:42:45 nice n practical 23:45:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:49:27 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 23:59:16 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 2014-02-27: 00:09:09 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 00:11:36 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:24:56 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:27:28 -!- fabiii has joined. 00:32:46 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:35:58 -!- fabiii has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:48:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:57:58 -!- Sonnet has joined. 01:04:03 -!- Sonnet has quit. 01:07:30 -!- augur has joined. 01:34:56 -!- shikhout has joined. 01:38:01 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:38:01 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 01:38:46 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:50:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:57:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:59:41 -!- conehead has joined. 02:01:43 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to sarah. 02:01:53 -!- sarah has changed nick to janice. 02:03:17 -!- janice has changed nick to janedoe. 02:11:11 -!- janedoe has changed nick to copumpkin. 02:16:32 Should I try F#? 02:17:15 sure why not 02:17:29 It would be a very functional language in a mainstream IDE 02:17:43 (That is more of a reason why than a reason why not) 02:18:18 Also, Idris type providers took the idea from F# apparently, and it seems like an interesting (and good) idea 02:18:25 i don't know what "very functional language" means but a few years ago I would have enjoyed arguing about it at length 02:18:41 Well, more 'functional' than most mainstream languages? 02:18:54 (Also ripe for arguing about) 02:19:16 I don't intend to actually state any opinions suggestive of what I think about F#, at least before I start to learn it 02:19:32 picturing your opinion posing in lingerie 02:27:05 Massiva - MIDI sequencer for Windows 95/98 02:28:29 jsut gonna picture everything sgeo refers to in lingerie from nwo on 02:28:50 Anti-lingerie 02:35:01 what a spectacular annihilation 02:37:41 -!- augur has joined. 02:41:49 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:41:59 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:50:15 -!- tertu has joined. 02:53:58 -!- tertu_ has joined. 02:54:18 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:56:40 -!- tromp has joined. 02:59:02 very functional 02:59:05 much ide 03:07:38 wow 03:18:58 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 04:22:37 -!- tertu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:33:57 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:34:32 -!- tromp has joined. 04:38:59 zsh: /home/ion/.local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: bad interpreter: /bin/bash^M: no such file or directory 04:39:14 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:40:36 lol 04:43:05 `coins 04:43:08 sumamerlancoin q-balcoin fobberwacoin suxeracoin cutcoin headeltapcoin hexcoin xsmickringcoin rocerecoin flipcoin jgovtocoin amaccicoin gillmarcoin lazzlatlniancoin fubftrcoin flvcoin condicoin louxcoin quangcoin fruhrberwancoin 04:44:17 -!- tertu has joined. 04:47:55 -!- chaiomanot_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:48:39 `coins 04:48:41 befucoin buccoin nybocoin unbrcoin ted!coin tomiacoin patsrecoin rodyscriptcoin orocoin bencerecoin udainloncoin boobbycoin bawlecoin barburingcoin isoroupcoin snaiacoin hollengraphthisesocoin doflorumcoin cheffolksworkcoin birdetrcoin 04:54:29 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 04:54:56 -!- password2 has joined. 04:59:03 -!- oerjan has joined. 05:03:13 Switching from the standard Portal 2 (Beta) to the Portal 2 (Beta) [beta] helped. 05:06:46 -!- tromp has joined. 05:11:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:11:33 o_O 05:12:29 ion: is it a neutrinoless double beta 05:13:45 kmc: you much of a gpg user? 05:13:52 nope 05:14:13 "he asked if I was a PGP user but I heard 'PCP user'" 05:14:29 lol 05:18:14 is there any software for breaking old ciphers? like substitution and vignere and shit, nothing you'd use nowadays? or does everyone just write their own 05:19:41 maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrypTool 05:20:22 dunno if that's what i want but it looks neat. 05:20:23 somebody in ##crypto was claming that CrypTool could distinguish an AES-CTR ciphertext from randomness without knowing the key 05:20:26 lol 05:20:55 crypto attracts more than its share of crackpots 05:25:17 basically i have a ciphertext corpus of probably-a-substitution-cipher and i'm wondering if i should just break it myself, or write a program to break it for me 05:30:20 etaoin shrdlu 05:30:43 http://i.imgur.com/pvFCifh.png astronomy is weird 05:30:47 astrology rather 05:31:07 zzo38ology 05:33:55 * oerjan learns from that that the southern cross isn't actually the constellation containing the south pole 05:36:21 also, except for the "family" part which looks suspect, i suspect most of that is astronomy. 05:40:33 well, bayer and la caille are astronomical, and the zodiac would be historical, but the rest i've never heard about. 05:41:27 as divisions of the sky, that is. 05:42:05 somehow that chart reminds me of http://www.obsidianfields.com/lj/nonmonogamy2.5.1.gif 05:42:30 ion: What, is Portal 2 now in LinuxSteam also? 05:43:15 (http://sprunge.us/CWhL also looks suspicious.) 05:44:13 is it cheating to temporarily fall in love on purpose in an open relation ship if you have a just-sex rule 05:44:32 just wondering because there is no intersection between cheating and open relationship 05:45:33 "fall in love on purpose" is a weird concept 05:48:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 05:54:34 i don't vouch for the accuracy or usefulness of that chart, I just think it's amusing 05:55:00 it is definitely possible to cheat in an open relationship 06:04:21 the astronomical chart definitely is less confusing 06:04:28 (and less overlapping) 06:06:57 fizzie: yeah 06:39:21 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 06:39:25 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:45:39 -!- Slereah has joined. 06:47:31 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:47:37 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:04:46 oklopol, if you fall in love with another person , you may have never been in love with the first person 07:05:47 it's still cheating if you don't love your partner 07:05:57 at least according to my definition 07:06:56 i would say that "cheating" just means breaking the agreed-to rules, whatever they may be 07:07:12 precisely 07:07:42 well okay if we agree on that, then i guess my original question is pretty stupid 07:07:48 but I also think "would this upset my partner" is at least as important as "does this meet the definition of cheating" 07:08:45 yeah i usually check whether the feeling my partner will get meets the definition of upset before doing anything 07:09:44 password2: may have, sure, but it is also possible to truly love more than one person 07:10:42 i,i affine love 07:12:11 Sounds like a song title. 07:13:05 hmm, what's that i,i thing again? 07:13:12 it means "i have no point, I just like saying" 07:13:28 "The grave's affine and private place, / But none, I think, do there embrace." 07:15:52 probably 07:19:58 when a couple has two children nobody is like "well that means you didn't *really* love the first one" 07:20:02 idk, maybe some people do think that way 07:20:53 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:23:06 maybe you love each of them half as much as a result 07:23:54 that seems pretty ridiculous though 07:23:58 and the more incoming love you have the more you have to distribute 07:24:01 LoveRank 07:24:05 :D 07:27:14 * kmc goes back to thinking about what the eigenvalues of the hookup graph represent. and anonymizing multi-party protocols for computing said graph 07:27:27 #esoteric - applying linear algebra to feelings since [insert ridiculous year]. 07:27:35 minding the gap since 1996 07:27:56 I think that applying linear algebra to feelings is big business now 07:28:12 i should learn linear algebra 07:28:16 also feelings 07:28:19 you should read Nielsen and Chuang 07:28:33 "LOST: Our B&K 4153 artificial ear is missing black circular plate, --" 07:28:42 normally i would put that in my file of things to maybe read 07:28:53 fizzie: wow, that's an actual thing 07:28:59 https://www.dropbox.com/s/aww14dg5sis59z2/bk4153.png 07:28:59 but that file is on a disembodied hard drive 07:29:11 I wish i had a binaural microphone thing. 07:29:25 fizzie: the one on the right is labeled in Comic Sans?? 07:29:51 kmc: It's apparently a photo of the actual unit they have, the one that's missing the black circular plate. 07:29:59 I don't know how one loses something like that, though. 07:30:03 it seems to be missing a foot pad too 07:30:12 "#Huawei Rotating CEO announced FusionSphere" 07:30:26 apparently Huawei have 3 rotating CEOs in addition to the usual, stationary CEO 07:30:42 One for each axis 07:30:46 olsner: I see they've fixed it with utmost professionalism. 07:31:31 it looks expensive too, I don't think it's been treated with the appropriate respect 07:31:43 hehe "stuff some paper under it" 07:31:47 looks like tissue even 07:32:55 Couldn't find a price with a quick search, there's just a "request a quote" button at the B&K page. 07:33:01 That is usually code for expensive, though. 07:33:45 yes 07:33:49 if you have to ask, it's too much 07:34:02 I’m sure all the companies have done the math, but it’s unintuitive to me that they’ll maximize sales by hiding their prices. 07:34:31 sometimes it's about selling you ``custom'' ``solutions'' that happen to cost exactly as much as they think you're willing to pay 07:34:45 that's why all enterprise software is "customized" despite this being a massive pain for everyone 07:36:50 Apparently these days you can also buy ones that look... well, like this: http://www.gras.dk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/3/43ag_web.jpg 07:37:39 haha 07:42:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 07:51:50 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:09:52 if anyone here has access to a really badass PC (more than 32 simultaneous CPU threads) tromp_ may need your help https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=485170.0 08:10:47 also http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1ytrld/help_wanted_testing_new_proofofwork/ 08:12:25 why is every parallel thing i see about fucking bitcoin ;_; 08:12:26 htkallas@hippu3:~> cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep 'processor' | wc -l 08:12:26 32 08:12:35 Sadly, it's not for playing around with. 08:12:50 Also load average: 13.10, 12.88, 12.29 it's kind of busy at all times. 08:12:51 note, that is _strictly_ more than 32. 08:12:54 Oh. 08:13:39 Bike: he is actually trying to test if his new scheme is _immune_ to easy parallelization. 08:13:59 yeah yeah 08:14:09 it's intended to be bound by memory latency, rather than cpu speed 08:14:18 *bounded 08:15:39 also, i guess this means he wants those > 32 threads on a single chip 08:15:46 why would you intend that, out of curiosity 08:16:13 oerjan: "The largest machine I have access to has 32 threads (dual 8 core hyperthreaded)" -- that sounds like two chips to me. 08:16:37 fizzie: ok maybe single motherboard, whatever (I AM NOT GOOD AT HARDWARE) 08:16:51 (hippu3 is 4*8 cores, apparently without hyperthreading.) 08:17:32 hippu1 and hippu2 would be 8*4 cores both, and hippu4 is identical to hippu3. So they all go up to 32 only. 08:17:42 oerjan: do you just mean they should share ram...? 08:17:43 Bike: he wants "normal" computer hardware to be competitive at mining 08:17:50 Bike: perhaps. 08:18:09 a nice goal and all, but i would think the love of money destroys any hope of that. 08:19:07 Bike: well the idea is to have something that you _cannot_ make enormously more efficient with custom chips 08:19:19 yeah, i get that. 08:19:25 (i.e. asics, which afaiu have completely taken over bitcoin mining) 08:19:44 i just think somebody motivated by money will probably break it. vague prediction, i know. 08:19:52 maybe they'll get custom ram to get less latency, lol 08:20:33 Bike: well i recall tromp saying to the effect that if someone manages to design less latency ram, everyone wins anyway 08:20:54 yeah, and if we get better parallelization from bitcoin everyone wins anyway too, i suppose 08:23:18 and also, i think coin mining is not profitable enough to pay for doing fundamental hardware research... 08:24:30 god, i hope so 08:24:48 but it apparently is profitable enough for people to make asics?? 08:28:08 yeah but that's not necessarily true invention, i think i read something like that they get their increased efficiency by being all cpu and no memory... which means tromp's scheme would totally crush them. 08:28:31 (he may have been the one who said it, or it was in one of his discussions) 08:29:19 anyway -> 08:30:46 oerjan: it's not invention, i just mean asics are pretty damn expensive as i understand 08:47:43 `coins 08:47:45 subsercoin fluebuacoin pistcoin vowelscoin tweeacoin twentcoin hungcoin qakacoin recucoin doncoin thuecoin unracoin orocoin dupcoin quing-bookcoin schecoin ortecoin parcecoin retacoin domcoin 08:48:07 +1 for vowelcoin 08:48:24 also, domcoin for bdsm sites 08:48:29 thue-morsecoin 08:50:57 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 09:00:05 -!- atslash has joined. 09:27:32 -!- impomatic has left. 09:56:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:05:10 You can buy the full version of WinRAR with unracoin. 10:12:10 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:24:17 whats with the coin lists ? 10:25:08 they rule. 10:26:12 password2: It’s important to know about all the new cryptocoins so we can invest in them. 10:26:28 ah 10:27:09 so you have a bot that looks for wors containing coin ? 10:27:21 `run cat bin/coins 10:27:21 words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' 10:27:46 kay 10:27:52 so bash magic 10:28:07 `words 10:28:09 stiz 10:28:15 `words 20 10:28:17 deponscenc niorum guilizier gounde masastii hor hyth chrif lan oife cobdelby behoo hassaling murmed nondani giadamaby sna trim theed berton 10:29:44 `words --finnish 10 10:29:45 norma humallansa ankohteväksen käyvinansa vikseen hoiltasi lauksistänsä arkoitumasta siden fysisään 10:29:56 words 100000 11:00:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:23:28 -!- boily has joined. 11:27:35 -!- yorick has joined. 11:31:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 12:05:48 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 12:06:45 Man, that snarxiv game -- http://snarxiv.org/vs-arxiv/ -- is quite hard. 12:07:41 For a non-physicist, anyway. 12:14:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:17:27 ``echo $LANG 12:17:28 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found 12:17:37 `sh -c "echo $LANG" 12:17:38 sh: 0: Illegal option - 12:17:42 `` sh -c "echo $LANG" 12:17:43 en_NZ.UTF-8 12:17:59 I think I've found the explanation; apparently some Ubuntu VMs have en_NZ installed but not en_US 12:18:07 in their default config 12:28:24 the explanation is gregor set it to that 12:35:13 Today I'm going to enter an arduino competition that I do not really know much about 12:39:26 Taneb: was your esolang creation event already 12:39:42 oklopol, yeah 12:39:50 I didn't think it went well but the audience enjoyed it 12:40:28 can i see an example program 12:42:37 elliott: I mean, why he choe that setting 12:42:53 *chose 12:44:07 ais523: he chose it to amuse himself 12:44:12 it was unset or something before 12:44:21 how does `words work 12:44:40 markov chain, I think, the same way as fungot 12:44:40 ais523: playing mmorpgs again? :p. ugh i need to look at 12:44:51 those are pretty good except for the horrible lack of vowel harmony 12:45:15 i guess a markov chain 12:45:52 `quote markov assumption 12:45:52 No output. 12:45:55 hh 12:45:58 *huh 12:46:02 `pastlog Markov assumption 0 12:46:33 ​/hackenv/bin/pastlog: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ ls: cannot access ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory 12:46:41 oh. 12:47:35 If I don't misremember, it's character trigrams. 12:47:58 So very close to fungot indeed, except with characters instead of words, and a fixed context size. 12:47:58 fizzie: that's how all the various variations on which link exactly is weak). i'm tempted to participate in cycling through finland every year, but at some point back in 2.4.x. 12:49:12 * ais523 imagines fungot cycling through Finland 12:49:12 ais523: if ( ( if ( move) ( mark 1 300) doesn't seem to define any s-expression based language and turning it into a string 12:49:26 I can't really imagine what fungot looks like in person, so my mental image just has a bike zooming along by itself 12:49:27 ais523: this will actually be more like doctors learning 100 year old techniques to see what advice you get. 12:50:46 I think I used fungot's Perl babble generator to make up words at one point, by just interspersing in spaces before training, and tr -d ' ' after output. 12:50:47 fizzie: check the ,in command does. 12:52:15 -!- Speed`` has changed nick to Speed`. 12:55:56 -!- tertu has joined. 13:22:35 -- HTML5 spec at w3.org. 13:23:22 Hah, brilliant. 13:30:11 what would be great would be if Hixie added the -x- suffix to languages just for that purpose 13:33:08 -!- tromp has joined. 13:38:10 ais523: -x- is standard, afaik. 13:38:27 elliott: yeah, I'm wondering if hixie added it to the standard specifically for that purpose 13:38:54 the HTML standard does not control language codes 13:42:01 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:42:35 -!- tromp has joined. 13:46:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:52:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:05:59 -!- itsy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:31:28 UK spy agency intercepted webcam images of millions of Yahoo users http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/gchq-nsa-webcam-images-internet-yahoo 14:43:28 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:46:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:50:03 [[ The document estimates that between 3% and 11% of the Yahoo webcam imagery harvested by GCHQ contains "undesirable nudity". ]] 14:50:11 As opposed to all the desirable nudity. 14:52:24 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 14:53:05 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:53:26 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 14:55:13 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:13:55 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:15:20 -!- newsham_ has joined. 15:16:21 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 15:20:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:21:44 -!- Slereah__ has quit (*.net *.split). 15:21:45 -!- ais523 has quit (*.net *.split). 15:21:49 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 15:21:49 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 15:22:09 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523. 15:26:24 -!- lambdabot has joined. 15:29:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:36:05 hmm 15:37:51 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:51:29 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:58:39 -!- chaiomanot has joined. 15:59:55 ion: well, if you collect the whole haystack, you're bound to also collect some muck, mold and other undesirables. 16:02:36 -!- password2 has joined. 16:03:10 -!- impomatic has joined. 16:08:33 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:20:23 -!- password2 has joined. 16:31:21 on what day do we celebrate the feast of Saint Fungot? 16:31:31 fungot: do you know? 16:31:31 kmc: it's on the talk page discusses them, 16:44:36 does fungot even have a wiki article? 16:44:36 quintopia: basil is the one with proper mark behavior and visualization of the stack could be popped and pushed etc... 16:46:17 I'm going to the Sinclair Weekend in Cambridge on Saturday :-) 16:47:52 hi impomatic 16:48:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:49:00 fizzie: does not fungot deserve a wiki page 16:49:00 quintopia: no, i don't care enough about country borders now to want to apply the subtraction operator on strings; meaningfully ofcourse 16:51:22 wow, that's 100% perfectly grammatical up to the semicolon (allowing for the lowercase i) 16:55:30 quintopia: I have to admit I've never happened to think about the idea. 16:56:33 fungot: Can you write your own page? 16:56:33 fizzie: what is how? i assume, at least one snake? 16:56:45 fungot: Yes, that's a reasonable assumption. 16:56:46 fizzie: and it hasn't showed up either :-p) if that's what you mean with properly?" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 1080 myself 17:01:36 -!- Slereah has joined. 17:02:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:03:43 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:04:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:11:11 fizzie: approximately how many commands does fungot use atm? (i know it would be pointlessly tedious to actually count, but i suspect you can get an estimate quickly) 17:11:11 quintopia: s/ _/)/ it's the 3d models. 17:11:23 `` sh -c "echo $LANG" 17:11:28 `cat bin/` 17:11:30 exec bash -c "$1" 17:11:33 hth 17:14:57 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:16:07 oerjan: I tried to do that first 17:16:09 but missed a space 17:16:18 and came to the incorrect conclusion about why it didn't work 17:16:32 mhm 17:22:29 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 17:24:01 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 17:27:14 ^source 17:27:15 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 17:27:18 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:28:02 `addquote fungot: Can you write your own page? fizzie: what is how? i assume, at least one snake? 17:28:02 kmc: and sequences respond to .each, and they made it read as 3 characters) error i got was wet. not any closer to deciding what project to work on my irc skillz) 17:28:05 1170) fungot: Can you write your own page? fizzie: what is how? i assume, at least one snake? 17:28:18 ^style 17:28:19 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 17:28:47 ^style europarl 17:28:47 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 17:37:12 fungot: at least one snake 17:37:13 kmc: i would like to point out that, in reality, other expenditure will decrease sharply in the context of a diversified diet and in line with customs and traditions in this area as in many poor countries, the united kingdom experience would be valuable for the other members have said, that we were concerned, the two amendments, amendment nos 12 and 13. 17:37:33 fungot: what about amendment no 14? 17:37:33 kmc: madam president, by expressing the fnord rejection of a request made on 17 april 1996 whose purpose was to give birth to a law which has been taken up. but i would like to know whether the united states 17:40:09 ^style lovecraft 17:40:09 Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) 17:40:21 fungot: what should I call my next corewar bot? 17:40:22 impomatic: as my mind reeled amidst this chaos of intellectual and emotional groveling a few free souls have always stood out for the bungalow on the following day still travelled toward the hummock, though that is no reason to doubt the bulk of my fnord fnord for the titan mountains, might conceal. 17:41:19 does fungot even have a wiki article? <-- NOW IT DOES 17:41:20 oerjan: i hardly knew whether to call them steps or mere footholds in a precipitous descent. my mind, akeleys whispered paragraphs had affected me profoundly, and he wondered, too, and had grown used to listening for sounds in the great southern desert of arabia, where irem, the city of gugs which is fnord with the keenest interest; noting from the relative quantities of various reagents on the shelves fascinated him unutterabl 17:41:33 fungot: thanks, but it needs to be under 25 characters. 17:41:33 impomatic: poe's spectres thus acquired a convincing malignity possessed by none of their predecessors, and established a new standard of realism in the annals of my own presence in this terrible necropolis fnord the act of pausing with warren before a certain half- obliterated sepulcher and of throwing down some burdens which we seemed to have no ending. no trace of 17:43:16 There are 8654 non-whitespace characters in the main source file, discounting the large block of comments in the end, and the settings-setter/loader that are in a separate file. 17:43:32 Some of those characters are part of strings, and some are inline comments. 17:44:41 somehow i ended up lowercasing fizzie's nick but not fungot's 17:44:41 oerjan: i recall glimpsing the archway to the room of machines, within which were fantastic ruins of metal, half buried beneath fallen vaulting. everything was shadowy fnord, as lake had been giving throughout the preceding weeks, some of which were thickly covered with mystic symbols and formulae, historical notes and philosophical 17:46:02 Also the code with all whitespace removed (and then reformatted to 80 columns) looks quite silly, http://sprunge.us/dZHK 17:46:13 Quite a lot of it seems to be actually strings. 17:47:03 (Also that's more like what a "proper" Befunge program "should" look like; a single dense block.) 17:48:38 oh befunge actually has a standardized extension for sockets? cool 17:48:53 Funge-98, if you want to be exact about it. 17:48:59 Befunge-93 doesn't have any extensions at all. 17:50:27 oerjan: should we have a category for "programs written in esolangs". we do have a lot of pages which are dedicated to them. also, should the fungot page have a listing of fungot's commands? 17:50:27 quintopia: the lovecraft library wishes to extend its gratitude to eulogio garca recalde for transcribing this text. he had visited in his travels and who plainly claimed to be survivals or fnord of it. 17:52:20 quintopia: i'm not against either of those 17:53:28 ^style 17:53:28 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft* nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 17:53:32 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:57:37 quintopia: FWIW, fungot does have a "manual" of sorts in the github README -- https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/README.md -- that a hypothetical page could link to. 17:57:38 fizzie: arthur jermyn was the son of alfonso and rightful heir to the castle. to me, but i for one am tired of passing up the main deposits and merely seeking separate crystals out of jungle fnord. sometime i'll urge the wiping 17:58:02 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:00:15 btw, oerjan's busy making the page atm 18:00:44 oerjan: ^ 18:01:09 fungot: Are you feeling APPRECIATED? 18:01:09 fizzie: by h. p. lovecraft and c. m. eddy jr. the horned and hooved almost-humans, and the 18:01:34 I didn't know H. P. Lovecraft was a horned and hooved almost-human, but it does explain some things. 18:03:26 All his writing was love comedies 18:03:39 um i thought i had already made it. 18:07:47 FreeFull: i read that before somewhere 18:08:38 There was at least a cracked.com list that mentioned a Lovecraft romantic comedy. 18:09:04 oerjan: chainsawsuit 18:09:43 http://chainsawsuit.com/tag/h-p-wuvcraft/ 18:11:42 definitely not what i recall reading 18:29:49 -!- tertu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:35:56 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:38:59 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:00:58 -!- Slereah has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:01:14 -!- Slereah has joined. 19:11:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:35:28 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:38:18 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 19:38:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:41:10 -!- nooodl has joined. 19:51:28 found on reddit a popular science article about the navier-stokes idea by terence tao that i linked the other day https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta/20140224-a-fluid-new-path-in-grand-math-challenge/ 19:52:19 (i consider this idea on topic for this channel hth) 20:02:01 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:02:54 V. fancy. 20:03:34 `unidecode ű 20:03:41 ​[U+0171 LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DOUBLE ACUTE] 20:07:56 oerjan: The article comments weren't terribly impressive, though. 20:08:45 fwiw here's the reddit comments http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1ytc4i/terence_tao_proposes_fluid_new_path_in/ 20:10:10 oerjan: They seem more sensible than the "Perhaps Tao’s computer can serve as a model of the brain which might explain the origin of mind." 20:10:46 -!- nortti has changed nick to nortiecat. 20:10:57 you'd think 20:11:24 -!- nortiecat has changed nick to nortti. 20:16:11 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:23:58 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:25:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 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has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:24:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:27:44 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 23:37:55 -!- huh has joined. 23:39:50 -!- Withoutaname has joined. 23:39:57 -!- Withoutaname has left. 23:40:15 -!- mysanthrop has joined. 23:43:10 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 23:45:12 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:45:13 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:45:15 -!- Gregor has joined. 23:55:03 -!- tromp has joined. 2014-02-28: 00:00:51 -!- b_jonas has joined. 00:02:06 ah but I should have touched the file at least. mumble :) 00:06:03 -!- lambdabot has joined. 00:12:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:13:09 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 00:36:11 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 00:38:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 00:39:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:39:13 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:39:13 -!- Froox has joined. 00:39:53 -!- FireFly has joined. 00:40:49 -!- 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FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:29:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:29:48 -!- yorick_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:29:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:29:51 -!- Taneb has joined. 01:35:36 -!- shikhout has joined. 01:38:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:38:51 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 01:42:57 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:26 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:43:33 -!- b_jonas has joined. 01:43:41 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 02:01:23 TIL you can authenticate to NickServ using a TLS client certificate 02:01:42 I just use SASL. 02:09:09 kmc: I tried that but then i switched to le insecure plaintext communications (greetings to everyone sniffing this) because my client’s upgrade feature that doesn’t drop connections can not TLS. 02:09:49 A flying squirrel was encountered on the sixth floor of a Finnish university. Photo: http://yle.fi/uutiset/todellinen_yllatys_yliopistolla__liito-orava_lensi_kuudenteen_kerrokseen/7111732 02:17:36 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:07 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:40:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 02:40:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 02:41:19 -!- Froox has joined. 02:43:47 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:51:49 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:53:09 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 02:57:27 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:00:05 wat http://www.reddit.com/r/Racket/comments/1z4ira/racket_psa/ 03:07:18 -!- b_jonas has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:07:35 -!- b_jonas has joined. 03:12:41 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:20:48 -!- tromp has joined. 03:23:52 Sgeo: heh 03:25:21 I don't even know why that was posted or what that has to do with anything 03:25:28 I don't even know what's 'heh' about it, just... wat 03:27:55 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:28:07 echo "I don't even know why that was posted or what that has to do with anything" >wisdom/sgeo 03:28:47 Did you just overwrite my wisdom? 03:29:46 ... 03:29:58 derp 03:30:05 fun fact: this fact is not fun 03:30:10 fun fact 0 = 1 03:36:46 lol 03:42:41 * int-e is still upset about [1,1] being a singleton list. 03:42:51 o_O? 03:42:57 in ML 03:43:11 or is that an ocaml thing, I don't know. 03:43:16 Is it , the operator? 03:43:42 shachaf: it makes a tuple. In Haskell it'd be [(1,1)] 03:44:42 Oh. 03:44:44 And [1;1] would be a list of length 2. 03:44:45 A list is [1;1]? 03:44:48 Yes. 03:47:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:49:17 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:00:01 -!- tertu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:00:27 -!- password2 has joined. 04:24:52 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:33:06 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 04:36:25 -!- tromp has joined. 04:37:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:37:30 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:39:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 04:42:08 -!- tromp__ has joined. 04:43:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:49:08 -!- atriq has joined. 04:49:55 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:58:14 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 05:02:05 -!- tromp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:02:18 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 05:02:40 -!- tromp has joined. 05:06:20 -!- Effilry has quit (Excess Flood). 05:06:27 ”When you look at the ingredients, if you can’t spell it or pronounce it, you probably shouldn’t eat it,” 05:06:49 -!- b_jonas has quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer). 05:06:55 yeah! fuck science! 05:07:02 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:07:04 sgeo: That’s an excellent measure. 05:07:04 Beyond the general silliness of that statement... I think many people can spell pretty much any word that they're looking at on a list of ingredients, at least while they're looking at it 05:07:30 I hear they’re putting DHMO into many products these days. :-( 05:08:15 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Excess Flood). 05:08:30 -!- atriq has quit (Excess Flood). 05:08:39 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:08:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:10:14 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 05:10:41 -!- Effilry has joined. 05:11:01 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:15:23 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:15:31 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 05:16:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:16:10 -!- Taneb has joined. 05:25:13 i'd rather eat food from a farmer prepared by a chef than from a geneticist prepared by a scientist. 05:25:30 science is good at lots of things.. but their optimization function on food is whack 05:26:04 is a farmer relevant in this case? 05:26:18 How about food from a farmer given seeds by a geneticist? 05:26:30 sgeo: i'll take the non-gmo right now. 05:26:35 maybe in 200yrs i'll be fine with the gmo's 05:26:58 early adopter gets the early worms 05:27:40 fwiw, i'm not anti gmo, but i'm pretty anti all the companies pushing gmos down peoples throats while trying to conceal as much information as possible 05:27:54 they're optimizing profitability, not any useful utility function that i care about 05:28:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 330 seconds). 05:28:04 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 330 seconds). 05:28:11 like flavor, or nutrition, for example 05:29:25 i think companies are just trying their best to make the world a better place for you and me 05:29:28 <3 05:29:37 don't be so cynical 05:29:39 you're ok, oklopol. 05:29:40 Quantity is a useful thing to attempt to maximize, and that gets accomplished at least partially, if not fully, when profit is being maximized for 05:30:01 sgeo: huh? how do you figure that profit and quality correlate. 05:30:12 quantity. 05:30:17 if you're going to complain aabout science food at least do something really bad, like factory farms 05:30:22 oh quantity, my bad 05:30:40 quantity and quality usually do correlate 05:30:42 [19:08] < Sgeo_> ”When you look at the ingredients, if you can’t spell it or pronounce it, you probably shouldn’t eat it,” 05:30:49 (although perhaps inversely) 05:31:02 bike: that seems like a reasonable thing to complain about ^^^ 05:31:12 it's true, i avoid durians, but not high fructose corn syrupt 05:31:21 since most of the things you cant pronounce werent put there for anything other than preserving shelf life to increase profit 05:31:25 I never remember the difference between inverse and converse. Just that inverse+converse=contrapositive which iff the original statement 05:31:30 or to make food look artificially more appealing than it would otherwise 05:31:35 mo like obverse, imo 05:31:55 Bike: what, the frog fractions fruit? 05:32:14 There's... an actual durain fruit 05:32:22 i like normal cane sugar.. why we gotta go with the HFCS is beyond me.. but.. i bet in the long run we'll find HFCS is not so bad for us, but that the impurities left aorund in manufacturing perhaps are... 05:32:44 at any rate, no need to rush into being an early adopter of not-well-tested chemical foods 05:32:51 Sgeo_: lol did you seriously not know 05:33:18 I think I knew at one point then forgot 05:33:32 Sgeo_: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Singapore_MRT_Fines.jpg/471px-Singapore_MRT_Fines.jpg 05:33:47 Durians are not fine. Good to know. 05:33:55 I have some disgusting durian candy 05:34:21 kmc: i assume the fine is infinite 05:34:50 i have no objection to time-tested disgusting fruit candies 05:34:57 as long as they have been well vetted :) 05:35:23 how do you tell a good durian from a bad one? 05:35:37 if durians go bad do they start smelling good? 05:35:50 -!- tromp has joined. 05:35:57 they're all bad because i can't pronounce the name correctly 05:36:29 earle grey + durian == durian grey tea? 05:37:25 Bike++ 05:37:55 i avoid jabuticaba in favor of nice simple niacinamide for the same reason 05:38:05 chemistry nomenclature is, imo, so easy. 05:38:15 but fruits are all this weird foreign shit. can't deal w/it. 05:39:26 would you eat an omena 05:39:27 also, fruits are like, full of chemicals? i mean most of the time you can't even figure out their relative concentrations or they vary crazily between fruits, even from the same tree! it's insane. no way i'm gonna eat that shit. 05:39:34 http://foodbabe.com/2012/07/30/why-its-time-to-throw-out-your-microwave/ 05:39:42 Is this the same person who did the Subway thing? 05:39:43 bike; avoiding fruits you cant pronounce also seems like a good policy 05:39:51 stick with what you know.. never venture outside the bubble! 05:39:57 damn right 05:40:10 ok but seriously the pronunciation thing is a stupid-ass rule. i'm out of sarcasm 05:40:31 ". For the experiment pictured above, microwaved water produced a similar physical structure to when the words “satan” and “hitler” were repeatedly exposed to the water. This fact is probably too hokey for most people – but I wanted to include it because sometimes the things we can’t see with the naked eye or even fully comprehend could be the most powerful way to unlock spontaneous healing." 05:40:47 thanks, science 05:41:31 -!- tertu has joined. 05:42:24 do they elaborate on "unlock spontaneous healing" 05:42:38 nature has a lot of chemicals in it in general. did you know that salicylic acid was originally found in a tree?? trees are just handing this stuff out! kids could get at 05:43:08 and you can't even sue trees for unsafe practices. trust me, i've tried. 05:43:16 bike: eating stuff from a source you dont know that contains ingredients you arent familiar sounds like a reasonable cause for suspicion and caution to me 05:43:42 Yep. We should be suspicious of such people. 05:43:48 then again i still tink its neat that theres a guy who lives off eating only raw lambs that he slaughters himself 05:43:51 i've only eaten food i know the source of a few times, since my family's house as a cherry tree. thus, i know for a fact it is 80% coyote shit by mass. 05:44:10 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:44:12 cherries are 80% coyote shit? 05:44:18 Yes. 05:44:23 i love cherries! 05:44:36 maybe you should have investigated where you were getting them first. 05:44:37 is it possible to put coyote shit into other fruits? 05:44:41 can someone offer to host the wiki so I can get out of this godforsaken channel 05:44:41 they have that ultra expensive coffee that's shit through a civet first 05:44:48 kopi kopi luwak 05:44:59 that's when you do it twice. 05:45:03 takes 4 ever 05:45:10 What happens if I eat an apple. Is the ingredient just 'apple', which I'm familiar with, or all the things that went into it? 05:45:21 And what happens if I see 'apple' on another ingredient list? 05:45:25 How deep do I have to go? 05:45:30 i demand coyote shit be put on all ingredients lists 05:45:45 sgeo: if you want to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe 05:47:10 hah, ghcq implements orwell's telescreens 05:47:18 gchq even 06:22:15 -!- atslash has joined. 06:36:19 Garbage collection headquarters. 06:36:39 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 06:38:08 While I agree that it is good practice to check input data in SQL queries, php stops those kinds of injections per default. https://github.com/BarrensZeppelin/ltglan/issues/1 06:38:53 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:41:08 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:42:17 ion: Let me guess, the uploaded fix is going to call some mysql_escape instead of using a parametrized query? 06:42:35 fizzie: In fact it seems it was. :-D 06:43:17 ;_; 06:43:56 I can't really understand why php.net's documentation on mysql_real_escape_string doesn't mention parameters. 06:44:42 Except in a late user-contributed note. 06:44:52 (Then again, this is the language with magic_quotes.) 06:45:53 A flying squirrel was encountered on the sixth floor of a Finnish university. Photo: http://yle.fi/uutiset/todellinen_yllatys_yliopistolla__liito-orava_lensi_kuudenteen_kerrokseen/7111732 <-- are you _sure_ that's not a pokemon 06:47:26 or something escaped from a manga somewhere 06:50:03 damn it had been so silent the last days i thought the building craftsmen outside had finished their work, but no. (admittedly a car was suspiciously present.) 06:51:06 hm i'm not sure craftsmen is the right word. 06:51:39 they've done a lot of digging, sawing and hammering, though. 06:52:07 ion: https://github.com/BarrensZeppelin/ltglan/commit/071e9 06:54:02 :-D 06:54:10 oh, apparently it's norwegian too 06:54:22 olsner: what is 06:54:34 oerjan: the PHP software with the bugs 06:54:43 shocking :( 06:54:51 hmm, or possibly danish 06:55:29 not sure how to tell written danish from norwegian 06:55:43 i can if you paste some 06:56:04 "Opret en bruger og log ind først. :)" 06:56:11 that's danish 06:56:33 norwegian would be "Opprett en bruker og logg inn først. :)" 06:59:48 -!- nisstyre has joined. 07:01:29 olsner: i think the general trick of "does it have single consonants where you'd expect double, and voiced consonants where you expect unvoiced" works for comparing with swedish as well? 07:03:11 dunno, I just read it and see if it's swedish or not 07:03:30 i was trying to give you a method here, olsner 07:05:10 that is, both have strange vowels to a swede, but danish has stranger consonants. 07:05:55 in a sense that is "soft" 07:06:13 oh, you meant for norwegian vs danish? I was talking about swedish/other things 07:06:37 well that's much easier :P 07:07:43 just look for åäö and lots of a in the last syllable of words 07:08:20 vs. æøå and nearly exclusively e 07:08:40 TIL danish :) is norwegian :) 07:08:48 Jafet: shocking 07:08:54 oerjan: why would i expect double consonants 07:08:59 I think ck instead of kk is swedish too 07:09:29 shachaf: i am comparing to swedish/norwegian, so you do need to know one of those first 07:09:38 shachaf: to indicate vowel length 07:09:48 olsner: yeah, also x instead of ks 07:10:05 oerjan: will english do 07:10:19 old english might? 07:10:44 shachaf: not very well, maybe for testing the other way 07:10:50 Taneb: is that what they speak in old york 07:11:12 bruker 07:11:17 how am i supposed to guess that 07:11:19 also nynorsk messes up the vowels again, the a test triggers on that too. 07:11:52 can't you just make up your minds on that whole nynorsk/bokmål thing already? 07:12:34 sorry 07:14:43 shachaf: but perhaps vaguely, if you have a commonly inherited word of the kind where english doubles the final consonant when adding an ending, then you would be more likely to find the consonant single in danish and double in swedish/norwegian. very vaguely. 07:15:23 like english stop/stopping, danish stop, swedish/norwegian stopp 07:19:09 "Agda safety: we last proved false on April 18th 2012 ." 07:20:04 :D 07:21:20 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:21:29 when was the last time someone proved false in coq 07:22:46 No idea. I'm mostly hoping that Agda has comprehendible tutorials 07:23:56 earle grey + durian == durian grey tea? 07:24:02 * oerjan swats newsham_ -----### 07:25:42 would you eat an omena <-- probably not, sounds omenous 07:26:27 indeed 07:28:52 google pictures reveals the secret of omena 07:30:00 then google translate confirms 07:35:49 -!- shikhout has joined. 07:38:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:38:31 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 07:40:47 http://meatfighter.com/nintendotetrisai/ is impressive 07:42:34 also i like how this subroutine AC82 implements a jump table in-line with code 07:47:26 -!- MoALTz__ has joined. 07:48:14 "So does the PHP opcode execute PHP code?" 07:50:14 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:51:59 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:03:06 -!- Effilry has changed nick to FireFly. 08:05:11 -!- tromp has joined. 08:06:38 `coins 08:06:41 convercoin schinedcoin lerarrowwongcoin eversitcoin falecoin condocoin ardcoin braincoin dupdoorcoin glashtfoylcoin 4dihycoin mercroncoin dificoin phedcoin lamberrectorcoin cipectcoin clubitcoin hysiacoin opecoin objectrancoin 08:07:50 Braincoins are all in your head. 08:09:29 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:22:03 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 08:50:11 -!- vravn has joined. 09:05:08 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:13:48 -!- conehead has joined. 09:53:24 -!- mysanthrop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:57:21 -!- myname has joined. 10:03:09 -!- b_jonas_ has changed nick to b_jonas. 10:04:24 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 10:08:47 -!- hexagon has quit (Changing host). 10:08:47 -!- hexagon has joined. 10:13:32 -!- hexagon has changed nick to [tester]. 10:13:36 -!- [tester] has changed nick to hexagon. 10:52:14 hm i install hlint and try it on my recent Tag2ResPair.hs, and the only suggestion is something i already decided against just to drop an import. 10:52:34 i guess my haskell isn't so bad. 11:10:27 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3611536 well that clears things up. 11:12:00 that's paywalled isn't it, oh well http://pastebin.com/rNydqGG7 11:12:16 that was a pretty loud ad too 11:16:01 -!- boily has joined. 11:18:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:19:05 @massages-loud 11:19:05 You don't have any messages 11:22:27 -!- douglass1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:33:46 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:45:33 -!- atslash has joined. 11:55:59 @messages-lewd 11:55:59 You don't have any messages 11:58:13 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 12:03:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: IEUAAAAAAAAAAAH!). 12:39:22 -!- atslash has joined. 12:42:50 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:44:41 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 12:46:01 -!- atehwa_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:49:58 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:50:21 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 12:52:21 -!- Bacta has joined. 12:54:41 How would you implement the loop construct for Brainfuck? 12:55:09 +[...+]? 12:55:40 oh, last + is not even necessary 12:55:53 -!- tertu has joined. 12:55:54 i may not get the question, though 12:56:29 I'm writing a quick and dirty interpretter in Python :) 12:56:59 Basically when you have a [ you need to record it so you can jump back to it if the cell value is non-zero 12:57:12 Trying to think of a nice way of implementing that bit 12:57:50 push the adresse of [ on the stack 12:58:25 pop at ], jump at poped position if cell is not zero 12:58:39 That's exactly what I just read on Stackoverflow just now too 12:58:41 Thanks :) 13:00:25 If your interpreter doesn't involve module re and eval, it isn't dirty 13:00:53 also, use bitshifting 13:01:00 `coins 13:01:03 trastrecoin backcoin bromereturniceredcoacherelairequecoin fracktrcoin catchcoin hanisorecoin cleacoin hydricucoin freimaccoin markgrassuscoin unweakcoin lord!cpucoin karacoin dingintercalambdocoin scoledcoin c-logycoin mdpncoin smahocoin infuchcoin haifausiocoin 13:02:44 cpucoin can only be mined by cpus 13:03:45 I am half CPU on my mother's side 13:04:39 (Quiz: what distro do bitcoin miners use?) 13:15:14 -!- yorick has joined. 13:19:39 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 13:23:25 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 13:28:59 "bromereturniceredcoacherelairequecoin" 13:32:39 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:37:44 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:39:29 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 13:39:59 what? brome-return-ice-red-coacher-e-la-i-re-que-coin? 13:40:05 nice 13:41:24 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 13:42:03 `coins 13:42:06 attacoin cunticoin ooederivitespringlencoin hargfcoin eviatefuccefcoin docurcoin rufacoin confimicoin emoontcoin coiucoin eviacoin goto++coin jumpcoin excelumcoin coolcoin fungecoin dcrabcoin hachcoin gemacoin miegnecoin 13:44:14 -!- mekeor has joined. 13:45:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 13:45:19 Even though the sound of it is something quite too conjoin 13:53:26 oo! eder vite springlen coin 13:53:36 hargfcoin 13:54:55 Jumpcoin! Coolcoin; attacoin. 13:55:10 -!- shikhout has joined. 13:55:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 13:55:31 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 13:55:48 fungecoin probably has multiple dimensions 13:57:47 attacoin sounds tidy. 13:58:20 (but it might be an aggressive oin) 13:58:28 here's some I got from a language model I trained to Hungarian: csúrdacoin ecoin vincssncoin surocoin acoin jajcoin tömdelcoin ídcoin megcoin acoin eecoin mothcoin nomagcoin rircoin szoúszobcoin kelyóezörgyecoin magosjántakcoin 13:58:33 ogyitlamcoin boncoin opjácoin szetdicoin verkedcoin asláncoin szukbakjadsucoin fuzcoin mellbfcoin nepolorcoin dértentcoin enecoin kércoin erszecoin nakámcoin keddemcoin fuzjánbájtódcoin saraszcoin haldalcoin lagycoin rondcoin téleletcoin acoin dölbelelcoin taláncoin piszracoin bemcoin éstakcoin semcoin lelecoin holcoin vércoin szorötcoin iniscoin hermetincoin acoin agáryjecoin röspepfcoin mapnancoin közgemcoin zrcoin 13:59:23 -!- password2 has joined. 13:59:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:01:28 -!- Bike has joined. 14:10:57 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:12:13 You can switch languages with `coins directly. 14:12:15 `coins --italian 20 14:12:17 coprinticoin escecoin colancilecoin rimentatocoin invecchicoin dipandogliacoin stavacoin uscollecoin pesecoin esplosecoin famentòcoin giunghicoin venereretecoin vertunacoin dubitersocoin sturbiterecoin seremmocoin rececoin tumultiacoin prosciatocoin 14:12:23 `words -l 14:12:24 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M 14:12:43 To any of those; the default is --eng-1M --esolangs. 14:13:02 `words --ogerman 14:13:04 rückkoppen 14:13:13 `coins --ogerman 10 14:13:14 standbestecoin bergrößecoin dikanneratenkworatcoin exekulattgruppecoin maschafecoin schwencoin stersatzcoin heanfangriftcoin eingengengeleuchencoin angcoin 14:13:32 At least bergrößecoin sounds q. impressive. 14:14:36 Entgegengegangen is a German word that looks p. silly when written out in cursive. 14:15:41 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 14:16:14 My god Brainfuck is slow 14:16:21 Or maybe it's my implementation 14:16:26 Is kw even a valid sound in german 14:16:27 -!- impomatic has joined. 14:17:17 I can't find any examples, not even in loanwords like http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superkalifragilistischexpiallegetisch 14:19:09 -!- Frooxius has joined. 14:19:15 heh 14:19:29 Jafet: It might have come from an abbreviation like Nkw. 14:19:39 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:20:17 maybe it's multiple words, like dikanner-atenk-worat-coin 14:20:29 though atenk is suspicious 14:21:00 tenk seems like a syllable that a computer might imagine to be valid 14:21:29 If it's character trigrams, like I remember, it won't have that much context. 14:22:41 Just needs .. "ate" "ten" "enk" "nkw" "kwo" "wor" .. to exist at least once in the dictionary in order for that to be possible to generate. 14:24:25 Bacta is observing the classic tradeoff between implementation complexity and performance. 14:24:53 And both nkw and kwo do appear: http://sprunge.us/jRWe 14:25:05 (Compounds, all.) 14:26:11 I would imagine that most german words are compound, due to combinatorics 14:26:56 kw wouldn't make sense in german, you would write qu 14:28:13 Jafet: There are no optimizations I can make to this code either... 14:28:59 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:30:21 ^bf ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>>.>++.<-.++++++++.<--.>---.>+++.<---.<---.>>>++++.<<++++++.>--.>.<.<++++++.>>.<.<<+.>.>++++. 14:30:22 brainfuck is so slow 14:30:25 That seemed p. fast. 14:30:45 brainfuck isn't slow at all 14:30:54 Brainfuck has no random access memory 14:31:01 Hence it is pretty fucking slow 14:31:11 problem is, it needs pretty many commands to achieve stuff 14:31:43 Slereah: huh? 14:31:47 Hah! But there are optimizations you can perform if you want to do more analysis of the source before you interpret it 14:32:23 i wrote a brainfuck interpreter in assembly, it wasn't slow at all 14:32:27 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 14:32:31 Fuck 14:32:36 [15:31:34] I wonder, are there any optimized bf compilers? 14:32:37 [15:31:45] Like translating ++++++++++++++ into pointer + whatever 14:32:37 [15:31:51] And such things 14:32:42 Yes. 14:32:52 There are quite many optimizing bf compilers. 14:32:59 Pretty much every brainfuck compiler that isn't a golf entry 14:33:31 Another standard optimization is for loops that have no net tape movement 14:34:21 https://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/ is one well-known optimizing compiler. 14:34:27 I'm assuming you can't do any parallelism given it's shared "memory"? 14:35:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:35:54 Shared memory is not the problem for parallelism, the single instruction pointer is. 14:36:13 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:36:16 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Slereah_. 14:36:18 You can do a multitape BF 14:36:19 Or just multihead 14:36:22 Was I saying 14:36:51 -!- Slereah__ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:37:03 Although 14:37:48 If you are concerned about high performance in brainfuck, though 14:38:51 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:39:47 If you have parallel brainfuck on a single tape 14:39:47 What happens when you have to branch! 14:39:47 What if one tries to put in a 0 and the other encounters a ] 14:39:47 How else will I code Crysis in Brainfuck otherwise 14:39:47 I'm gonna need a pretty good Brainfuck video card 14:41:15 Slereah_: try some extended brainfuck that lets you escape to native code, or a buggy brainfuck interpreter that doesn't check tape limits and lets you get control by smashing the stack or something 14:42:13 The best idea would probably be not brainfuck 14:42:17 -!- oklopol has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:42:42 That situation doesn't sound any different from plain old shared-memory parallelism you get on, you know, regular multicore computers. 14:43:04 What happens? MESI happens. 14:49:29 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:52:00 I had a sudden thought 14:52:09 are brainfuck derivatives the same sort of concept as monad tutorials? 14:58:57 You mean, are they analogous to analogies? 15:00:53 ouch 15:01:49 I meant more along the lines of "new person discovers «Haskell/esolangs», struggles for a while, thinks they understand «it/them» after some thought, writes a «monad tutorial/BF derivative»" 15:10:52 So a reverse shibboleth, if there is such a thing. 15:13:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 15:15:27 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:21:11 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:27:40 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:29:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:42:50 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 15:44:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:47:39 -!- yorick has joined. 15:49:11 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 15:58:38 -!- tertu has joined. 16:00:49 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:07:51 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:08:08 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 16:21:10 -!- Bacta has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:29:25 -!- callforjudgement has quit. 16:42:24 -!- mekeor has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 16:51:14 -!- douglass_ has joined. 17:02:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 17:03:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:09:29 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 269 seconds). 17:10:26 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:21:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:28:22 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:42:44 -!- Slereah_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:47 -!- AnotherTest has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:48 -!- Frooxius has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:48 -!- impomatic has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:49 -!- atslash has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:51 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:53 -!- chaiomanot has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:55 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:56 -!- douglass_ has quit (*.net *.split). 17:42:58 -!- nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:00 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:01 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (*.net *.split). 17:43:04 -!- shikhin has quit (*.net *.split). 17:47:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:48:31 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikhin_preserve. 17:49:31 -!- shikhin_preserve has changed nick to shikhin. 17:50:41 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 17:50:41 -!- atslash has joined. 17:50:41 -!- 23LAAD5BZ has joined. 17:50:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 17:50:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:50:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:52:16 -!- Phantom__Hoover has changed nick to Guest53101. 17:52:43 -!- impomatic has joined. 17:53:30 -!- douglass_ has joined. 17:55:54 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:59:42 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:59:42 -!- Guest53101 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:59:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:59:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 17:59:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:03:59 -!- nisstyre has joined. 18:04:15 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:04:15 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:04:52 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:06:11 -!- atslash has joined. 18:07:58 -!- Bike has joined. 18:31:00 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 18:51:04 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:52:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:54:44 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: bai). 18:56:50 `help 18:56:50 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 19:13:07 @ask zzo38 What do you think of the subroutine AC82 documented in http://meatfighter.com/nintendotetrisai/ 19:13:07 Consider it noted. 19:13:47 p. cool subroutine imo 19:19:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: No route to host). 19:19:58 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:20:11 i wonder if compilers for modern architectures ever do that 19:22:26 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 19:23:32 That's clever 19:28:08 ARM has these table branch instructions (TBB / TBH) that you can use for a similar thing, by using the program counter (r15) as the table base 19:28:20 and this is what gcc 4.6 does, according to http://gcc.godbolt.org/ 19:29:32 but even then it's only a 1 or 2 byte relative branch; for an arbitrary target you still need to branch to a branch instruction 19:32:21 Is there any particular benefit in sticking the jump table targets "inline", except maybe some cache locality matters for combined data/instruction ones? 19:33:08 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:34:18 you don't have to load the address of the jump table 19:35:32 I'd think that on x86-64 you could do just lea rX, [rip]; jmp [rX + K + 8*rY] followed by the table contents. 19:36:54 The call-pop construct gets criticized because it breaks the hardware-optimized return stack used for branch-predicting ret's targets. 19:37:08 yeah 19:37:10 (I assume that's not an issue on the 6502.) 19:37:17 i suspect not :) 19:38:00 though somebody has probably designed a superscalar OOE 6502 just for laffs 19:39:36 `as86 lea rbx, [rip]; jmp [rbx+8*rax+4] 19:39:37 488d1d00000000ff64c304 19:41:03 Oh, the rip-relative form always has a 32-bit displacement attached to it, I guess. :/ 19:43:58 Well, you can move that 4-byte displacement into it, at least. But it's still one whopper of an instruction (pair). 19:50:13 7 bytes isn't that big by the standards of x86 instructions :) 19:52:02 -!- miguel has joined. 19:52:31 hola alguna chica londa x aki 19:52:34 linda 19:53:33 -!- shikhout has joined. 19:54:02 `bienvenido miguel 19:54:03 miguel: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.) 19:54:27 -!- miguel has left. 19:54:33 <`^_^v> he was just looking for a hot girl 19:54:43 <`^_^v> i dont think he cared about programming languages 19:54:58 indeed. `bienvenido is so efficient. 19:56:38 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:56:39 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 19:57:06 * oerjan briefly wonders if oteric means something suspicious in es-pañol, but google doesn't know about it 19:57:21 including with -o/a appended 19:58:14 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:59:05 what is the "x" meant to stand for in that sentence 19:59:51 was wondering about that too. i was guessing "exista" or thereabouts 20:00:02 -!- tertu has joined. 20:00:27 that's a stretch for "equis" 20:00:34 <`^_^v> x is slang for por 20:00:37 but I'm not a spanish speaking 14 year old in search of a chica linda 20:00:55 huh 20:01:20 well he said "aki" so obviously he doesn't care about spelling 20:01:24 sure 20:01:44 <`^_^v> because x is like multiplication and 2 x 2 is pronounced dos por dos 20:01:44 -!- conehead has joined. 20:01:50 i don't exactly know spanish chatting slang 20:02:09 <`^_^v> i only know from video game servers 20:02:20 um what's equis supposed to mean 20:02:30 <`^_^v> spanish people really like ragnarok online 20:02:52 <`^_^v> mexican i mean 20:03:27 Guys 20:03:39 How can I fuck around in x86-64 20:03:39 oerjan: spanish name for the letter "x" 20:03:49 Slereah_: how do you mean 20:03:56 Like a virtual machine that boots on some program in x86-64 that I write 20:03:56 kmc: oh 20:04:10 Slereah_: you want to run code without an OS? 20:04:15 Yes. 20:04:19 it's... complicated 20:04:28 i'm gonna dump some links at you 20:04:40 Or at least a non-obtrusive OS 20:04:49 Like MS DOS for ol' timey x86 20:05:02 http://templeos.org/ 20:05:07 be careful what you wish for 20:05:14 :D 20:05:18 http://wiki.osdev.org/Main_Page http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2012/ 20:05:28 elliott : COME ON MONKEY PAW 20:05:42 Thanks. 20:05:44 I guess http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Accts/TS/Wb2/TempleOS.html is the slightly less useful link now 20:05:48 er 20:05:50 less useless. 20:06:02 Slereah_: what means "obtrusive"? you can write x86-64 assembly for Linux pretty easily, and it's much less work to make something cool than doing it on "bare metal" 20:06:06 I do like coding in x86, but I do want to try out some x64 too 20:06:35 For a start it has more bloody registers. 20:06:44 kmc : Doesn't the OS block a bunch of things? 20:07:02 in some sense an OS is the opposite of obtrusive... it provides the illusion of a machine much simpler and more capable than the "real thing" 20:07:05 Slereah_: like what? 20:07:20 Access to ports, parts of the memory, self modifying code 20:09:08 you can usually opt into self-modifying code 20:09:21 (it's disabled by default for security reasons) 20:09:23 Direct access to hardware, yes (for some values of), but that's only a problem if you really fancy writing drivers. 20:09:37 I want 20:09:40 ULTIMATE POWEEEER 20:09:59 you will find that things are fantastically complicated and it will be an extreme amount of effort to make anything work at all 20:10:07 I am aware! 20:10:09 I don't mean to discourage you but you should know what you're getting into 20:10:19 Well I am already coding things in x86 20:10:33 the "platform" is far more complex than the instruction set itself 20:10:47 an OS hides that complexity and gives you a simple more friendly platform 20:10:51 simple osdev isn't really that difficult, just very tedious and annoying 20:11:25 I just kinda like trying to do things from the ground up 20:11:48 http://davidad.github.io/blog/2014/02/18/kernel-from-scratch/ Slereah_ 20:11:52 Slereah_: get to the silicon mines then ;) 20:12:07 There's no silicone mines! 20:12:11 It's all sand and shit 20:12:23 silicone and silicon are not the same ._. 20:12:26 Bike: nice 20:12:37 Ah yes 20:12:41 (In english, at least) 20:12:46 In French, silicone is silicone 20:12:51 And silicone is silicium 20:12:54 is here where i mention that the Czochralski process is really cool 20:12:54 silicon* 20:13:00 one problem is that the BIOS (which is basically an OS/library in ROM) becomes much harder to access once you leave real mode 20:13:15 which makes doing any kind of I/O a lot harder 20:13:21 Although I wouldn't mind building my own little computer, I don't think I could build much 20:13:21 "aren't you sposed to use UEFI now" 20:13:30 Because of scale issues 20:13:44 Slereah_: you might like those MIT courses 6.828 and 6.004 20:13:53 in the former you write large parts of a kernel 20:13:58 What kind of computer can you build from off the shelf electronic components? 20:14:00 in the latter you design a processor at the logic gate level and then optimize it 20:14:17 They're way too fucking big to do much with 20:14:41 Although 20:14:47 Maybe I could make a tiny Brainfuck computer 20:14:53 You can get computers from shelves. 20:14:54 Bam. 20:14:56 you can find many projects online of people building computers from discrete logic chips 20:15:02 they are usually simple 8-bit things 20:15:13 but you can make a "real CPU" with arithmetic, branching, etc. 20:15:18 I know 20:15:39 I heard somebody actually breadboarded the 6.004 processor at one point 20:15:53 which is like a 32-bit version of the Alpha (simplified further I'm sure) 20:15:55 Is that a torture method where they drown you in dough? 20:16:01 haha 20:16:54 why was my first thought on hwo to explain breadboards 'well, imagine a cribbage board, and' 20:16:57 anyway I strongly recommend learning x86-64 assembly in friendly userspace before you try to write an OS 20:17:08 also you might want to write most of the OS in a higher level language anyway 20:17:28 Who said anything about an Os 20:18:01 Also yeah I guess I might want to just write some stuff in C and then half-compile it and look at the assembly file 20:18:16 And modify it some 20:18:17 If you're writing without one, whatever you write is arguably an OS. 20:18:23 Slereah_: have you seen http://gcc.godbolt.org/ 20:18:49 Well I don't plan to do any threads or file management or spinning skulls 20:19:00 kmc : Thanks! 20:19:01 if you don't have any spinning skulls then what's even the point? 20:19:16 clearly you should write an OS designed for GPUs 20:19:22 be sure to try the "Colourise" button 20:20:04 http://www.gifmix.net/gif.php?image=skull-gifs/TOTENKOPF047.GIF 20:20:19 http://www.mytinyphone.com/uploads/users/cacique/101455.gif 20:20:20 Oh man 20:20:23 I do miss the 90's 20:26:05 And silicone is silicium 20:26:07 Yes, the web is certainly worse off now that every page doesn't have a http://www.jadefrolics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/under-construction-sign-animated1.gif in it. 20:26:09 and here it's 'kisel' 20:26:33 The whole silicon/e thing in english took me a while to understand 20:26:53 "kisel (plural kisels): A dessert, an acidulated jelly, made by cooking fruit or berry juice, milk or water, and flour, common in Slavic and Baltic countries as well as Finland." 20:26:58 fizzie : Also the little gif of a letter going into an enveloppe and into a mailbox 20:28:03 Silicon is, for whatever reason, "pii" in Finnish. 20:28:23 pee 20:29:01 (Also the same as π.) 20:29:12 Looks like the etymology of "silicone" is dumb. It's a siloxane, not a ketone... 20:29:42 Well crystal doesn't have a crystaline structure! 20:30:03 er, what. 20:30:42 And neutrinos aren't small neutrons! 20:31:41 They are small and neutral, though. 20:31:54 So is Switzerland 20:39:03 As far as I can figure out, the etymology for the Finnish "pii" for silicon comes from the fact that "pii" had a (now no longer used) meaning of 'tooth' or any sort of spike in a tool, so a type of flint useful for toolmaking got called "piikivi" ("kivi" being rock/stone), and those contain silicon compounds. 20:40:06 da piikivi being of course an anagram of wikipedia 20:40:11 vikipedia 20:41:06 There's a "Finnish version" of Uncyclopedia called Hikipedia (lit. "Sweat-pedia"). 20:41:45 -!- Speed`` has changed nick to Speed`. 20:43:41 'Sir Humphry Davy proposed the name "silicium" for silicon, from the Latin silex, silicis for flint, flints, and adding the "-ium" ending because he believed it was a metal' argh 20:43:47 well, whatever, it's not as bad as hydrogen. 20:44:33 Bike: Metals, metalloids, who cares. 20:44:47 It's a semiconductor 20:44:49 Close enough 20:44:59 also I'm pretty sure back in the days, "metal" had a different definition 20:45:24 "The meaning of "metal" differs for various communities. For example, astronomers use the blanket term "metal" for convenience to collectively describe all elements other than hydrogen and helium " 20:45:25 See? 20:45:28 it's totally a metal 20:47:37 yes 20:47:56 And of course, diamond is the hardest metal 20:48:00 And it is made of carbon 20:48:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SiliconCroda.jpg to be fair, that does look p. metal. 20:49:50 really i'm more annoyed at silicone. chemist really ought to not just name something as a ketone because it's vaguely analogous to a ketone 20:50:38 Systematic names in chemistry is a pretty recent thing anyway 20:51:44 `addquote And neutrinos aren't small neutrons! They are small and neutral, though. So is Switzerland 20:51:46 1171) And neutrinos aren't small neutrons! They are small and neutral, though. So is Switzerland 20:52:10 oerjan: Also known as "Switzerino". 20:52:39 he named it after benzophenone. that's not IUPAC systematic but it's still proto-system. 20:52:40 (Actually, that sounds like a derogatory term.) 20:55:32 iirc metal is from the greek for mine 21:10:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:11:53 seems like it https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%BD#Ancient_Greek 21:25:26 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:25:27 -!- hexagon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:25:27 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:26:03 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:27:06 -!- yorick has joined. 21:27:33 -!- hexagon has joined. 21:27:53 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:27:56 -!- rodgort has joined. 21:29:16 -!- b_jonas has joined. 21:32:09 -!- hexagon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:32:31 -!- hexagon has joined. 21:36:41 -!- conehead has joined. 21:41:36 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:42:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:52:58 -!- myname has joined. 21:53:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:53:19 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:53:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:53:21 -!- 23LAAD5BZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:53:37 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:54:08 -!- tertu has joined. 21:54:26 -!- impomatic has joined. 22:07:49 you know what's bad? that gasoline is called "benzene" or "naptha" in some countries/languages 22:08:32 -!- tertu has quit (*.net *.split). 22:08:39 -!- atslash has quit (*.net *.split). 22:10:21 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 22:11:21 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:11:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Excess Flood). 22:12:01 -!- atslash has joined. 22:13:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:13:23 happy Australian mailman mailing list reminders day! 22:13:31 hi ais523 22:14:04 hi quintopia 22:14:48 -!- b_jonas has joined. 22:15:49 what are you on about now? 22:16:12 the " happy Australian mailman mailing list reminders day!" thing? 22:16:18 yes 22:16:36 it's a joke #esoteric tradition; the mailing list server software Mailman send out reminders on the first of every month 22:16:38 kmc: what? whyyyy 22:16:45 and several of us are subscribed to Mailman mailing lists hosted in Australia 22:16:55 so the reminders come out on the last of every month instead 22:17:12 is that actually the active component there? i thought in us gasoline at least it was octane 22:17:59 hebrew for example 22:18:15 I think octane's the largest component of most gasoline/petrol 22:21:32 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:44:18 -!- b_jonas_ has joined. 22:46:14 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:46:17 -!- atslash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:46:18 -!- atslash has joined. 22:48:15 man, is it mailman day already? 22:48:39 mine is the TUHS mailing list (also .au) 22:50:36 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:52:06 -!- callforjudgement has joined. 22:52:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:55:15 Bike: It's "bensiini"/"bensa" in Finnish, and yes, it's probably not a good name. 22:55:19 -!- hexagon has quit (Changing host). 22:55:19 -!- hexagon has joined. 22:58:51 "Etymology: From Swedish /bensin/, from German /Benzin/, from benzoe + -in." So it's not our fault! 23:08:43 -!- nisstyre has joined. 23:11:48 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 23:25:39 In Polish it's benzyna 23:25:52 Probably from German 23:27:05 Oh, apparently from French 23:39:28 -!- scarf has joined. 23:39:56 [Error] ais523: No such channel. 23:40:01 Freenode's having fun today, I see :-) 23:40:06 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523. 23:43:16 -!- callforjudgement has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:49:50 -!- Sgeo has joined.