00:09:58 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:10:09 -!- nooga has joined. 00:18:59 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:19:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:49:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:54:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:54:37 I started to write a Java class with 7 words in its name 00:55:20 what's the name? 00:55:50 even AbstractSingletonFactoryProxyBean only has 5 words, but I suppose you could tack on two more to say what it actually does 00:55:59 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:57:06 Don't want to say it in public 00:57:44 err 00:57:47 What's with Quassel 00:57:53 Trying to message kmc, doesn't seem to be working 00:58:03 ok 00:58:10 i have received your secret dispatch 00:58:36 Sgeo: it has even more words if you expand acronyms :) 00:59:17 This sounds scary 00:59:23 I don't want to know 00:59:41 Most of it is just that it's a subclass of an already verbose class 00:59:56 (bare in mind I only know Java by reputation) 01:00:02 *bear 01:02:21 I might not even use the class... Java's notion of wrappers kind of scares me 01:02:37 In the sense that I can see some ways to do what I want, but nothing that strikes me as safe 01:03:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:03:52 I can only guess that Phantom_Hoover's Java allergy guided him away from the channel just in time 01:04:27 no i was rebooting to arch because windows was running the fan at full blast for some reason 01:05:06 arch meanwhile has, out of nowhere, started scrolling more than a page with every click of the scrollwheel, rendering it frustratingly useless 01:07:32 kmc: There is such a thing as excessive love for Rust: http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1o9tp4/sicp_with_rust/ 01:08:16 I feel less ... confused by attempts to translate it to CL or Clojure 01:14:22 ok why is my scrollwheel fucked and how do i unfuck it 01:26:40 -!- Poolala has joined. 01:37:28 -!- Poolala has quit (Quit: Page closed). 01:39:16 did you try turning it off and back on again 01:58:41 Taneb: Java isn't so much "scary" as "bureaucratic". 02:03:11 the amount of accidental complexity is pretty scary 02:03:14 if you care about software that works 02:16:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:51:07 kmc: if you could get a job in any language you wanted, what would it be? are you only sick of the haskell community or did the language itself get old too? 02:52:29 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:53:32 copumpkin: I still like Haskell; I also expect there are many corners of the Haskell community that I would enjoy 02:53:48 I've long thought that IRC isn't really representative of the people who are using Haskell in production 02:53:50 did you try #haskell-lens? 02:53:53 a little 02:54:07 it's just hard to keep up when there are so many other things to spend my time and energy on 02:54:15 yeah 02:54:20 anyway I don't think of language choice as a super important factor in picking a job 02:54:27 yeah, same 02:54:36 although I would indeed prefer haskell :) 02:54:37 how's rust? 02:54:48 i like it 02:55:09 the rapid rate of change in the language can get annoying 02:55:16 especially when things get worse (but usually for good reason) 02:55:50 what sorts of things get worse? 02:56:23 don't have time to talk about it right now, sorry 02:57:20 oh okay 03:17:07 My poor nose. 03:17:13 It has become a portal to the mucus dimension. 03:30:55 I am officially considering myself lactose intolerant again 03:31:08 On an unrelated note, I consider today a failure of see something say something 03:33:20 Told a person at the train station about some plastic bag at the tracks, called to tell them about a waiting room that smelled heavily of gasoline. Got thanked a lot, but probably wasted everyone's time 03:33:39 I have got to stop being so panicky 03:44:04 `olist 940 (Don't care if it's been done, I haven't seen it) 03:44:06 olist 940 (Don't care if it's been done, I haven't seen it): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily 03:50:41 It has been done. So much for me not caring 03:53:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:15:45 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:17:39 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 04:39:58 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:40:33 -!- tromp has joined. 04:41:55 -!- ^v has joined. 04:44:38 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:47:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 04:47:51 Sgeo: :-( 04:48:41 Sgeo: you should tell #cslounge-trains also 04:48:42 maybe 04:48:43 if you want 04:49:34 is that channel into olist 04:49:42 oh, trains 04:50:16 Sgeo: I meant the story that had something to do with trains 04:50:38 Oh 04:51:31 -!- tromp has joined. 04:52:31 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:11:15 @messages-void 05:11:15 boily said 15h 46m ago: maybe I'm a meta-näkki? 05:12:07 @tell boily If you met a näkki, you wouldn't be here. QED. 05:12:07 Consider it noted. 05:12:30 * oerjan is crushed by ye olde falling anvil. 05:23:39 o.O 05:23:40 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbs0wB3CQAEDUZE.png 05:23:57 yesssss 05:24:30 http://docs.racket-lang.org/unstable/2d.html 05:27:12 Doesn't seem to work for me 05:27:28 Don't know if Racket v6 is needed, but those aren't the nightly docs 05:27:53 Oh, needed a require 05:30:11 * oerjan wonders if the merging supports things like isolated islands 05:30:19 in a circular sea 05:31:55 hm "No cells may span rows." 05:32:43 oh that's for #2dtabular 05:34:00 I still feel iffy about the difficulty of making lexical syntax scanners that take up only a portion of the file... although that's done here, it required an addition to the #lang line 05:38:50 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:43:56 -!- conehead has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 06:04:51 -!- conehead has joined. 07:23:06 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:27:52 What kind of computer golf games will allow you to select the set of clubs during the game instead of only before it starts or being hardcoded in? 07:57:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 08:03:11 there was that one windows golf game that let you always carry all of the clubs around 08:03:22 that was centuries ago 08:04:21 won't that work if you have enough people carrying them around for you? 08:05:22 maybe zzo38 means like style and model of clubs. 08:06:50 Normally you can have only fourteen clubs; I mean to allowed you to select which fourteen clubs without having to select before it starts. 08:07:53 don't the rules of golf require you to select before the match starts 08:08:33 I think it actually allows you to select even during the match, as long as you don't delay the game and don't remove any you have already added, and don't have more than fourteen, and exactly one is the putter. 08:09:08 oh 08:09:37 so you want to be able to decide on an as-needed basis, adding clubs to your bag one by one. 08:09:48 that seems kind of cheaty 08:10:30 people should invent transformer clubs 08:11:00 Transforming golf clubs are explicitly prohibited by the rules, though. 08:12:53 i didn't know that 08:13:34 huh? 08:13:43 a strange game 08:13:50 the only winning move is not to play 08:14:05 guess that makes me a winner 08:15:18 zzo38: i couldn't find my copy of modplug tracker. i always lose it. so i didn't listen to your song. 08:15:45 quintopia: It isn't made in Modplug Tracker, and I don't think Modplug Tracker will play it anyways. 08:16:46 zzo38: why not? 08:17:03 Because it isn't a tracker format. 08:17:25 (But even if it is, there are a few that Modplug doesn't support.) 08:17:49 is it some kind of waveform? 08:17:56 what all players support it 08:17:58 vlc? 08:18:09 I think VLC might play it; I'm not sure. 08:18:39 i accidentally unzipped it into a big folder with other stuff 08:18:46 which file extension is it 08:18:51 It is .nsf 08:19:09 And it is updated now; now there are three files and a few fixes to the old ones 08:19:12 ah good. i like national science foundation files 08:19:24 (I mean three songs; they are all compiled into a single .nsf) 08:19:59 A .nsf file is a program in 6502 machine code that writes audio registers of up to seven kind of sound chips. 08:20:50 (This one uses only the 2A03 chip, which should be supported in all programs that play NSF; some programs may lack support for some of the other sound chips though.) 08:23:49 -!- kmc has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 08:24:32 i don't think any standard music players support it :/ 08:25:19 O no, some do; the music player included standard with Ubuntu seems to play it. Also, any NES/Famicom emulator should play it. 08:25:19 -!- kmc has joined. 08:26:00 (At Free Geek they have Ubuntu and I tried loading a .NSF and it played it) 08:26:01 zzo38: yeah, gstreamer has an NSF plug-in built in: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166752 08:26:25 but i don't have that player 08:26:56 I do know some niche music and non-music formats with no known such plugins besides from Winamp... 08:26:57 https://wiki.videolan.org/Gme/ 08:27:40 https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=33305 08:29:29 yay 08:30:17 So, yes VLC can play it. I don't know which sound chips it supports other than 2A03, but this particular one doesn't use any others anyways, so it is OK. 08:36:27 However you might want to redownload the .zip since it is updated. 08:39:59 The file "attrzone.nsf" is a playable music file with three tracks, "attrzone.asm" is source file for th e game, "attrzone.nes" is the game binary, "attrzone.orc" is a Csound orchestra file, "aznsf.asm" is source code for the NSF, "huffer.c" is a Huffman analysis and compression program, "leveldec.inc" and "levelptr.inc" are automatically created from the compression 08:41:22 "lvlcopy.c" is used to extract RAM images, "mkperiod.bas" is source for "tone.bin", "pc.chr" is the PC character set, "read.me" currently is useless, "rle.dat" is input for huffer.c, "song*.mml" are sources for each song, "song*.bin" are (unplayable) binaries for each song, "tone.bin" is a lookup table to convert note numbers to periods, and "ziplist" lists all the files in the ZIP. 08:58:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:19:21 -!- nooga has joined. 09:28:24 -!- namaskar has joined. 09:31:42 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:06:54 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:18:16 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 10:20:08 -!- Sellyme has joined. 10:29:29 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:48:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 11:06:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:06:48 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:16:15 -!- nooga has joined. 11:19:17 -!- namaskar has joined. 11:22:36 -!- yorick has joined. 11:36:14 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:39:57 -!- mazyod has joined. 11:40:48 -!- mazyod has left. 11:45:32 -!- nooga has joined. 12:00:13 -!- Bike has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:13:28 -!- namaskar has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:24:52 -!- Bike has joined. 12:29:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:30:04 -!- Bike has joined. 12:37:24 -!- namaskar has joined. 12:44:23 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:01:08 ! Too many }'s. 13:01:09 l.437 } 13:01:12 Thanks, LaTeX. 13:01:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:03:02 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:03 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:07:55 good M24 morning! 13:08:02 @massages-loud 13:08:02 oerjan said 7h 55m 54s ago: If you met a näkki, you wouldn't be here. QED. 13:08:25 ~metar EFHK 13:08:25 EFHK 231250Z 02005KT 9999 FEW002 M14/M16 Q1033 NOSIG 13:08:29 ~metar CYUL 13:08:30 CYUL 231300Z 23009KT 15SM FEW010 BKN200 M23/M27 A3010 RMK SF1CI7 SF TR SLP197 13:08:45 It was M17 or so in the morning, seems to have warmed up a bit. 13:09:01 @tell oerjan of course I wouldn't be here, I'd be meating a näkki. 13:09:01 Consider it noted. 13:09:02 Also we have a 2 kW electric heater in the office now. 13:09:37 It's in the middle of the room, and feels very primal. "Gather 'round the fire" and all that. 13:09:55 do anyone of you have a guitar? 13:16:14 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:20:04 -!- namaskar has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:23:34 -!- Frooxius has joined. 13:58:44 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:46:24 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 14:48:05 -!- mrhmouse has left. 14:51:19 -!- Bike has joined. 14:52:30 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:26:10 -!- ^v has joined. 15:26:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:29:23 -!- trn has joined. 15:29:47 `relcome trn 15:29:50 ​trn: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:47:10 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:52:59 Hello guys. 15:54:14 -!- messi has joined. 15:55:13 -!- heroux has joined. 15:56:24 `relcome messi 15:56:26 ​messi: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:56:45 trn: are you an esolang amateur? 16:00:33 Very much so. 16:00:43 I'm actually not all that much into the esolangs themselves. 16:01:16 But I like esoteric and retro projects and the creativity and cleverness of it all. 16:01:49 so this one day i was thinking 16:02:05 and i got this crazy idea 16:02:30 that maybe i could try to make an esolang 16:02:51 i don't know what got into me 16:03:35 brother tenqui 16:07:03 recome maricon 16:09:40 boily: I have a PDP-11 port of CP/M for example. 16:12:11 trn: nice! 16:12:14 messi: eh? 16:23:07 -!- messi has left. 16:44:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:48:15 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:49:21 -!- conehead has joined. 16:50:00 -!- heroux has joined. 16:50:18 -!- heroux has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:52:55 Do you have a PDP-11 though? 16:59:10 does anyi wouldn't expect a an original 1960s DEC product to run at all 17:00:36 me. 17:03:32 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/ looks relevant 17:04:17 (Though they don't say whether they are still using original hardware. there's a reason why they might: the plant is probably certified including the computer hardware in use.) 17:05:53 well 17:06:01 that seems reasonable 17:06:50 i wish i could just keep a computer in its exact current state for a lifetime, never modifying it except to apply security patches, and always having support 17:06:57 but the world doesn't work that way 17:09:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:10:28 ~metar ENVA 17:10:29 ENVA 231650Z 14025KT CAVOK M03/M16 Q1019 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 17020KT 17:10:40 @messages-lewd 17:10:40 boily said 4h 1m 39s ago: of course I wouldn't be here, I'd be meating a näkki. 17:17:32 ~metar LEWD 17:17:32 --- Station not found! 17:17:57 -!- Bike has joined. 17:18:05 It's in the middle of the room, and feels very primal. "Gather 'round the fire" and all that. <-- electric cavemen? 17:19:17 trn: hi there, didn't you use to be my usenet reader 17:21:22 oerjan: I would have recommended tin myself :b 17:22:21 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:22:35 back when i last did usenet, slrn seemed to be the ultra-fancy one people recommended 17:23:13 I used to use tin 17:23:15 * int-e shrugs 17:23:21 I use slrn now. 17:23:28 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:23:30 (this may have been last millennium, certainly not long after) 17:25:29 My nick usage of 'trn' predates USENET trn tho :b 17:26:08 man you're old 17:27:41 next you'll tell us you used original pdp-11s 17:28:33 Not really PDP-11's much, but VAX. 17:28:46 ah me too 17:32:19 This file include some description of unusual feature of VAX: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ian/Computer_architectures 17:34:02 http://blog.codecombat.com/having-your-algorithms-ass-kicked-by-the-internet this jerk describes exactly the next todo in my funge-space impl, and instead of implementing it for me dismisses it with "*Too hard*, I thought." 17:39:04 'As I wrote on Wikipedia, EMODH #5345.1524[r7], @mul_ext_ptr[r0], #3.141592765[r5], @int_table[r1], @frac_table[r2] is 2+18+6+18+6+6, or 56 bytes' 17:39:09 wowowowow 17:42:33 ORIGINAL RESEARCH 17:43:05 haha 17:50:44 I haven't done anything with VAX programs although I have written programs using a 6502 instruction set, and sometimes tried to design my own instruction sets 18:16:30 -!- ^v has joined. 18:17:27 -!- Bike has joined. 18:30:02 * boily unfungots kmc 18:30:02 boily: that's crazy talk. we should do it. 18:30:18 fungot: of course it's crazy talk. and stop perverting kmc. 18:30:18 boily: ( untested)" at http://www.common-lisp.net/ paste/ results/ fnord children_list is list of numbers 18:30:33 fungot: experimental corruption? interesting. 18:30:33 boily: who'd you suggest?) but what i have so far. http://geekz.co.uk/ lovesraymond/ archive/ html/ fnord/ files/ system%20down.txt in the 18:30:45 you cannot pervert that which is already perverted 18:30:59 fungot: I think kmc is a good subject, all in all. 18:30:59 boily: it passed 1000000). the first one is supposed to be anonymous any more. 18:38:18 http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2014/01/23/victoria-line-concrete-flooded-signal-room-photos-not-a-hoax/ 18:39:20 gooooooooood times 18:41:10 this is not something that has ever happened before, eh? 18:41:52 not as far as I know 18:50:01 accurate flowchart 18:55:29 a gold standard cock-up 19:04:31 i guess they've cemented their reputation 19:04:55 oerjan++ 19:07:44 "Let he who has not accidentally filled his workplace with a fast-drying cement cast the first stone." 19:08:20 i can think of some candidates there 19:08:42 I know this is the wrong material, but could this still qualify as yet another brick in the wall? 19:08:56 >_> 19:10:34 well it _did_ brick that equipment. 19:10:40 -!- bananCompany has joined. 19:10:42 -!- bananCompany has left. 19:12:57 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:16:51 56 bytes for an instruction is still not as bad as that CASEx thing: "Technically it can be 8GB long, but the VAX only has 4GB of addressing space." 19:18:01 * quintopia replaces boily with a specialized computer 19:22:50 -!- ^v has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:22:58 I am not one to be so easily replaced! 19:23:07 * boily specially mapoles quintopia 19:25:16 wonderful! the mapole functionality works as expected. simulating boily is so easy. just a chatbot with extra mapoles, fungots, and metars. 19:25:16 quintopia: it is true that you can't just generate stuff the function wants. ( both are still broken are mutt, tin, all ncurses programs, gpm,... 19:28:25 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 19:48:41 so, TC again: can you say, computers are TC? if so, can you say something is TC if you can build basic logic gates and the like? 19:49:29 to be turing complete you need an unbounded amount of storage 19:49:38 which no real computer has, so we often gloss over this detail 19:50:24 is there actually some used subclass of TC with bounded memory? 19:51:43 cellular automatons :D 19:52:00 oh! 19:52:02 or finite state automata 19:52:09 good point, actually 19:52:20 olsner: oh? 19:52:33 infinite states would make them tc? 19:52:41 if you have bounded memory, that's just a whole lot of states 19:52:52 i see 19:52:57 that does make sense 19:53:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:54:36 it's not the best model (2^(8*4GB) is a lot of states), but I think anything that has bounded memory *can* be reduced to one in principle 19:55:03 also linear bounded automata 19:56:41 LBAs can recognize a larger set of languages than FSMs because... uh because the storage is proportional to the input string length, rather than completely constant 19:56:44 I think 19:57:56 note that a TM is a "FSM with a tape", so proving that things are "basically TC" by showing they would be TC when augmented with a tape is pretty meaningless 19:58:38 hmm, is only linear bounded automata a thing? how about e.g. polynomial bounded automata? 20:02:36 -!- ^v has joined. 20:02:58 google search for "quadratic bounded automaton" finds a textbook with an exercise to prove they're TC 20:03:06 http://i.imgur.com/fWYX4bE.png 20:03:16 er, no 20:03:58 just that they can be recognized / simulated by a TM 20:03:59 boring 20:04:42 "polynomial bounded automaton" would be the complexity class PSPACE, i guess? 20:04:46 well, decidable, not just recognizable 20:04:54 true 20:05:01 i.e. definitely not tc 20:05:40 hmm, isn't that exercise really boring? just remove the tape use restrictions and it's exactly a TM? 20:05:41 ah yeah, so the hard part is detecting that D has failed to halt on w 20:06:26 but it's not that hard because it has only |w|^2 * Σ states or so 20:06:51 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:06:52 so you can just simulate it for that many steps and give up if it hasn't halted 20:07:18 |w|^2 * |Σ| i mean. gah it's been a while 20:07:54 the number of steps could be a lot more than the length of the tape though? 20:09:34 oh well, it'll be some number of steps that is obvious and trivial to calculate if you know how 20:11:53 -!- namaskar has joined. 20:14:47 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:16:20 yeah I still have it wrong 20:16:42 it's like |Σ|^(1 + |w|^2) 20:16:55 assuming same alphabet for tape and head states 20:17:46 don't you need to include the position of the head somewhere too? 20:18:05 sigh, yes 20:20:20 -!- aergus has joined. 20:21:01 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:43:10 -!- int-e has joined. 20:44:01 * int-e sighs 20:50:02 -!- Bike has joined. 20:56:40 http://lindahls.fi/tuotteet.aspx 20:58:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:59:07 Hello, ion! 20:59:54 Hello, i 21:07:00 -!- Sellyme has quit (Quit: Oh god my bouncer is down help). 21:10:41 -!- Sellyme has joined. 21:19:55 Hellion! 21:24:51 http://glitzelectronics.com/ 21:27:14 sneaky 21:28:17 jogurtti 21:28:33 ~duck jogurtti 21:28:34 --- No relevant information 21:28:59 ion: whyon 21:29:24 ~duck yoğurt 21:29:25 --- No relevant information 21:29:48 kay-em-see, how does one make a pun with that? komical? 21:33:19 kmc is notoriously unpunnable, even with `ello and other fternooning matters. 21:33:49 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CHICKEN CHICKEN CHICKEN). 21:33:51 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:36:02 hellegan 21:37:13 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:38:21 -!- tertu has joined. 21:40:47 http://i.imgur.com/5NIH6iV.jpg has everyone seen this yet 21:41:18 Bike: as soon as i could answer that the answer had already become yes 21:43:48 what's all this then 21:45:00 it's stuff charlie brooks tried to hide from the police 21:45:55 as part of hackgate 21:46:45 i'm disappointed that "instant lesbian" is a DVD and not, like, a powder you add to water 21:46:46 calling stuff whatevergate is so ridiculous 21:46:55 it is, but that's what it's calleed 21:46:55 nooodl: yuppp 21:47:11 i mean the whole "news international is full of shits and hack into the queen's phone" 21:47:14 thing. 21:47:32 http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2014/01/bridgegate_or_bridgeghazi_chris_christie_s_bridge_scandal_needs_a_name.html 21:48:15 i lol'd 21:48:21 Grumble frumble Sunday conference deadlines, what's up with that, don't they realize people always leave these things to the last moment and are going to have to waste their precious weekend time. 21:54:34 (Technically, it's a "Sunday anywhere on Earth" deadline, but I'm not going to count on waking up early enough on Monday Finnish-morning to take advantage of that.) 21:55:34 take over a tiny country somewhere, pass sweeping calendar reforms 22:01:29 fizzie: yes they do 22:01:58 Are they just EVIL then? 22:06:41 It's just that a friday deadline doesn't make sense assuming a program committee with healthy working days. 22:06:59 I've seen monday and tuesday deadlines, too. 22:12:13 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:18:51 matlab has sprintf but not printf, ok 22:18:59 Bike: It has fprintf too. 22:19:09 And fprintf(1, ...) is pretty much printf(...). 22:19:30 (FILE *) 1 22:19:39 hardcoding fids seems gross 22:19:46 It's gross but it's done. :p 22:19:59 disp(sprintf(...)) also seems gross, but i figured it's matlab 22:20:03 You can write "stdout" too, but I think that didn't work in Octave or something. 22:20:17 Or maybe it's the other way around, that you can write "stdout" in Octave. 22:20:18 octave can't run the codebase anyway V_V 22:20:20 The file descriptors 0, 1, and 2 actually are defined to be stdin, stdout, and stderr in Unix-land, so eh. 22:20:53 You can stick a printf.m in there somewhere, of course. 22:20:54 pikhq: yeah but (a) this is windows and (b) if you didn't know that (and this isn't computer scientist land, most people reading don't)... 22:20:54 kmc: Amusingly, that could be a valid definition of stdout. 22:21:25 Bike: It's also the case on common Windows environments, because file descriptors there are a fiction maintained by the C library. 22:21:43 yeah i figured 22:21:44 in C you can also write STDOUT_FILENO or fileno(stdout) 22:22:27 Yes, but STDOUT_FILENO is 1. 22:22:27 odd that file descriptors are part of C and not just POSIX 22:22:37 They aren't part of C. 22:22:46 oh 22:23:00 ah fileno(): _POSIX_C_SOURCE >= 1 || _XOPEN_SOURCE || _POSIX_SOURCE 22:23:05 then why do Windows environments provide them as a fiction? 22:23:22 Bike: Yeah, it was the case that the "stdout" thing was an Octave thing, and in MATLAB you just hardcode them. 22:23:49 Though disp(sprintf(...)) is seen too. 22:24:11 yeah i copied that from a help page 22:24:34 it's just shitty debug output, anyway, i oughta rewrite this whole fucking program 22:24:48 Anyway, from help fprintf: "Obtain FID from FOPEN, or set it to 1 (for standard output, the screen) or 2 (standard error)." 22:24:51 rewrite it in python 22:25:15 Windows libcs end up offering a *really* random hodgepodge of Unix functions because DOS libcs happened to offer a really random hodgepodge of Unix functions. 22:25:30 wouldn't really help my recurring "oh my god, there are six thousand arguments to this function" problems 22:25:35 Not for any explicit reason, but simply because there was no such thing as "standard" C. 22:25:40 also. i just noticed this powerstrip has ethernet ports 22:27:05 Bike: sure they aren't telephone ports (that look similar)? the idea's to protect your telephone from being struck by lightning 22:27:08 or maybe they're phone jacks... 22:27:10 yeah 22:27:18 does it look like https://www.pwnieexpress.com/penetration-testing-vulnerability-assessment-products/sensors/pwn-power/ 22:27:23 i can never tell the difference :< 22:27:39 ais523: You get RJ45 in surge protectors too. Though I guess RJ11 is more common. 22:27:41 Some power strips have actual Ethernet ports with the same idea. 22:27:46 shachaf: please tell me that's not named after the internet slang. 22:27:54 ...is this real 22:28:18 pikhq: but Ethernet cables tend to be underground, and thus much less in danger from lightning, than phone cables (which at least in the UK tend to run through the air for the last mile) 22:28:22 what is this for 22:28:32 Bike: look at the domain name 22:28:34 Well aware. 22:28:42 ais523: shit 22:28:45 I'm not saying it amkes sense, just that that's the idea. :) 22:29:24 Bike: alt. like this http://gnurds.com/index.php/2012/10/02/raspberry-pi-power-strip/ 22:29:29 i guess these things are popular 22:29:50 It's also the case that Ethernet jacks are hooked up via optical isolators, anyways, so surges are much less likely to be hazardous on Ethernet lines *anyways*. 22:30:30 i seriously don't understand, why is a power strip also loaded with nmap 22:30:59 ais523: In the US it's decently common for phone cables to run through the air as well. 22:32:04 Not as a guarantee, mind. Pretty much it's whatever happened to be most practical at the time they were putting in lines. 22:33:02 i thought they were usually magnetic rather than optical 22:33:36 Pretty sure the spec's optical. 22:33:41 http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/27756/why-are-ethernet-rj45-sockets-magnetically-coupled 22:33:54 Not that it matters. 22:33:57 "Even a 10 MHz square wave has levels lasting only 50 ns. That is very fast for opto-couplers. There are light transmission means that go much much faster than that, but they are not cheap or simple at each end like the ethernet pulse transformers are." 22:34:01 ooh ooh is this where i can ask what 'magnetics' means in the context of ethernet 22:34:36 well, I think a lightning strike is more likely to cross magnetic isolation than optical isolation 22:34:37 Same net effect on preventing massive catastrophic damage from surges though. 22:34:39 but I'm not sure 22:35:28 Yes, though the danger is usually not direct lightning strikes, but rather unusually high current induced by a nearby lightning strike. 22:35:45 Bike: the idea is you physically infiltrate this computer, disguised as a harmless power strip, into your target's network 22:35:53 ah 22:36:03 i wonder if anyone' used that 22:36:09 you know when you're `````pentesting''''' 22:36:16 I expect so 22:36:21 also $1500??? jesus 22:36:32 yeah shachaf's second link there starts by complaining about the price :D 22:36:44 why is pentesting in quotes, is this a sarcasm thing i am unacquainted with 22:37:13 just that the same tools are equally useful for "actually breakin' in to shit" 22:37:20 but are always sold for pentesting 22:37:43 oh. ok. 22:37:44 Text-to-Bash: text in bash commands via SMS! 22:37:51 i noticed that. 22:38:10 Makes sense though. Any tool that's useful for testing security is just about as useful for utterly violating that security. 22:38:24 to varying degrees, though 22:38:27 True. 22:38:34 e.g. there's a big difference between proof-of-concept exploits and weaponized exploits 22:38:49 nmap is not that useful for breaking in, except for telling you a way it's possible. 22:39:16 idea: make a fake annoy-a-tron that's loaded with all this breaker shit, give it as a gift to someone whose office you want to break into 22:39:20 If nmap alone gets root on a box, well, damn. 22:39:21 noone will see it coming 22:39:54 $1500 though? Jesus. 22:40:19 At that cost I expect a computer to be an exceptionally awesome beast. 22:42:00 Or at least come with a free blowjob. 22:42:26 i prefer the much cheaper open source DIY blowjobs 22:42:39 * pikhq is not flexible enough 22:42:42 :D 22:42:55 well they say open source is about collaboration... 22:43:14 But then it's not DIY. 22:51:36 i don't think that term excludes collaborative projects 22:55:48 Humbug. 22:59:35 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:14:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:19:11 -!- int-e has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).