←2014-01-21 2014-01-22 2014-01-23→ ↑2014 ↑all
00:08:46 <Bike> https://twitter.com/UkipWeather
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01:04:05 <Sgeo> Why is Oz so dead?
01:04:35 <Sgeo> Although admittedly, it does the whole use-functions-for-making-new-constructs thing but doesn't provide syntactic sugar for doing so
01:04:47 <Sgeo> Not sure if that's really significant, but I can imagine it makes code look ugly sometimes
01:10:47 <Sgeo> class $ from Server Class
01:11:22 <Sgeo> That... it makes a lot of sense that you can put $ in that position, I guess
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01:18:55 <Sgeo> Lactose Intolerance is a digestive disorder that sounds like a silly joke until you have it. Then it's more like a cruel joke.&&(navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Trident') != -1||navigator.userAgent.indexO
01:19:15 <Sgeo> Lactose intolerance is cruel Javascript. Good to know.
01:19:36 <Sgeo> view-source:http://www.cracked.com/funny-8054-lactose-intolerance/
01:19:40 <Sgeo> How did this even happen?
01:21:53 <kmc> well the entire web as a platform is based on pasting strings together willy-nilly with no types
01:23:46 <Sgeo> This person claims that lactose-free milk tastes (or smells) terrible. This person is a horrible liar.
01:24:04 <Bike> cracked.com <-- you don't say
01:28:25 <Sgeo> "Is it possible to evaluate code (as string or syntax list) at runtime (like eval()) in Oz? It is a dynamically typed language, so it may be possible."
01:28:38 <Sgeo> Totally impossible for eval to exist in a statically typed language.
01:28:43 <Sgeo> Good to know.
01:28:55 <Sgeo> (I guess their statement doesn't strictly speaking imply that0
01:28:56 <Sgeo> )
01:30:08 <Bike> well eval is hard to type.
01:30:14 <Bike> impossible in HM at least, probably?
01:30:40 <kmc> you can do it for any single result type in HM, i'm sure
01:30:44 <kmc> String -> Maybe (Int -> Int)
01:31:19 <kmc> and if you bake something like Typeable into the language then you could write String -> Maybe t
01:31:29 <kmc> but in Haskell as it stands you do need type classes to express the idea behind Typeable, yeah
01:31:41 <kmc> it's kind of odd that "lactose intolerance" is described as a pathology, when lactase persistence is absent in other mammals, and is a very recent (10,000 years?) mutation in humans, and is almost absent in some ethnic groups
01:34:50 <kmc> i have some friends who were born without wisdom teeth. that's pretty cool
01:35:26 <kmc> stuff white people like: digesting lactose
01:38:56 <Bike> sounds like the world needs a better understanding of ~ethnomedicine~
01:39:50 <Bike> fact: putting "ethno-" in front of a field name is over 300% cooler than putting "computational"
01:39:58 <Bike> jury's out on computational ethnomusicology
01:40:29 <kmc> perhaps bonghits will fix my ethnomedicine
01:49:38 <zzo38> s/ethnomedicine/quantum computational ethnomedicationology/
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01:58:37 <kmc> did you know it's National Hug Day here in America
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02:10:10 <zzo38> What happens if a C header file is licensed by LGPL?
02:12:09 <kmc> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41827
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02:41:36 <Sgeo> Is it accurate to say that Oz logic variables roughly correspond with Haskell LVars, in that Oz logic variables monotonically increase in information?
02:52:10 <Sgeo> There is a Brogue server now
02:53:05 <kmc> is that a rogue-like for bros
02:53:59 <Sgeo> It's a roguelike with a slightly annoying name
02:54:13 <Sgeo> But is intended to generally not need spoilers, I think
03:04:56 <Sgeo> It just takes one newLisp defender to remind me that the newLisp community is full of insane people
03:05:24 <Sgeo> "And yes, you don't like or use CL either, because CL has dynamic scoping. I think you are using Sublime or Vim, because Elisp has dynamic scoping."
03:05:26 <Bike> histrionic personality? hebephrenia? ultradian bipolarity?
03:06:40 <Sgeo> Then again, some of the anti-newLisp people are criticising fexprs, and this makes me sad
03:07:35 <Bike> to the psikushka with the lot
03:08:31 <Sgeo> "Unlike Common Lisp, newLISP and Scheme evaluate the operator part of an expression before applying the operator to its arguments."
03:08:40 <Sgeo> ^^ from the newLisp website
03:09:50 <Bike> that seems accurate? am i missing something?
03:09:52 <Sgeo> Oh, that's actually correct
03:09:56 <Sgeo> Bike: you missed my derping
03:10:23 <Sgeo> I was thinking they were thinking of #', but you need funcall
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03:11:49 <Sgeo> Wonder how difficult it would be to write a set of fexprs in newLisp to get back sane lexical scoping in a sane to use fashion
03:12:15 <Sgeo> iirc, newLisp has some lexical scoping features, just more unweidly to use, wider in scope than individual functions
03:15:38 <zzo38> Do some lists of computer software require that the software licenses are both FSF-approved and OSI-approved? Many seem to require only OSI-approval.
03:16:46 <Bike> office of strategic intelligence
03:19:37 <alandipert> Sgeo: where's that newLisp defense going down? i've been meaning to take a look at newlisp
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03:20:29 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/1u9xp1/newlisp_in_a_browser_compiled_to_javascript_using/
03:20:54 <Sgeo> You know what would be hilarious? A Kernel implementation on top of newLisp
03:21:11 <Sgeo> Although providing a reasonable FFI might make it not be a conformant Kernel implementation anymore
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03:27:05 * oerjan spots our esteemed domain owner
03:28:13 <oerjan> `relcome alandipert
03:28:16 <HackEgo> alandipert: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:28:37 <alandipert> oerjan: thx! i check in with the community once a decade :-)
03:29:25 <alandipert> is calamari, the bfbasic dude, around still?
03:29:34 <oerjan> `seen calamari ever
03:29:43 <HackEgo> 2013-07-19 19:49:01: <calamari> and see how it works out.. might be fun
03:29:53 <oerjan> for some value of "still".
03:30:50 <oerjan> once a year is better than once a decade, i suspect.
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03:35:45 <oerjan> @tell boily <boily> sounds delicious. <-- no, a näkki things _you_ sound delicious. hth.
03:35:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:35:55 <oerjan> @tell boily *thinks
03:35:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:37:33 <alandipert> i dunno if it's esoteric enough, but on another lisp note, i thought this might interest folks here: https://github.com/alandipert/gherkin
03:37:43 <alandipert> help & feedback graciously accepted
03:39:04 <Sgeo> "Rarely can one point to a language that's even more fucked up than early Perl or PHP, but today you can..."
03:41:25 <zzo38> If you want to play some roguelike game then perhaps look at "Savant's Maze" or "Savant's Maze - Family Edition" when I finished to write it; I did worka little bit more but not much. Currently it is unavailable.
03:41:44 <zzo38> Maybe Family Edition might not ever be written, though.
03:42:16 <Bike> how am i supposed to look at it
03:42:27 <zzo38> Patience, I suppose.
03:42:35 <zzo38> I don't know how else.
03:45:30 <oerjan> most annoying pronunciation guide http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gherkin
03:46:42 <zzo38> Unlike the other roguelike game this one you start on the basement and then you have to reach the top floor.
03:46:53 <zzo38> There is other differences from common things too
03:47:47 <quintopia> like if you try to eat things, you will drink them instead
03:48:01 <quintopia> and dipping things in fountains always makes them stone
03:48:13 <zzo38> No, but you can modify it to do that if you want to!
03:49:10 <zzo38> But there is lasers that stop you from going up the stairs, and invisible walls, and your swimming skill is temporarily decreased if you eat too much
03:51:48 <kmc> `paste bin/rainwords
03:51:51 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/rainwords
03:52:36 <kmc> for l in open("/dev/stdin").read() o_O
03:53:23 <zzo38> And if you step on a broken glass, then you might get injured, but you might be safe.
03:53:55 <zzo38> There is also fog that can block vision.
03:54:29 <zzo38> Potions are also different; you have to combine them if you want useful effects.
03:55:11 <kmc> Sgeo: why did they invent a dynamically scoped lisp in 1991 :<
03:57:27 <kmc> zzo38: what kind of effects
03:58:38 <zzo38> kmc: That part isn't done yet, so I don't quite know. But most of the other things I have described are implemented.
03:59:55 <zzo38> You start without any skills (not even literature and combat), except for the ones that you can't learn any other way; this is due to being cursed and you have to reach the top floor to get rid of it, get past all of the security guards, etc. (But you can still gain skills and stuff during the game like normal; the curse doesn't prevent that.)
04:00:04 <Sgeo> I can see some advantages of newLisp... as far as I can tell, anything can be redefined at the REPL, and if you redefine a 'macro' (fexpr), things that use it will have those changes immediately
04:00:35 <Sgeo> Also, the transparency thing means you can save an 'image' of it that's text, so modifyable in a text editor and not necessarily a special environment
04:02:12 <Sgeo> ....what
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04:02:14 <Sgeo> > (define (foo) (context 'fooctx) (set 'q 1) (context 'MAIN))
04:02:14 <Sgeo> (lambda () (context 'fooctx) (set 'q 1) (context 'MAIN))
04:02:14 <Sgeo> > (foo)
04:02:16 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `foo'
04:02:16 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `T.for' (imported from Data.Traversable)
04:02:16 <lambdabot> can't find file: L.hs
04:02:30 <Sgeo> So, then I tried q in both contexts. q seems to be defined in 'MAIN but not 'fooctx
04:02:46 <Sgeo> Are contexts reader-level? I was hoping to switch contexts in the middle of executing a function
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04:06:21 <Sgeo> "setq and setf work alike in newLISP and set the contents of a symbol, list, array or string or of a list, array or string place reference."
04:06:27 <Sgeo> So, I can't define my own setf-able places?
04:08:28 <oerjan> <kmc> i have some friends who were born without wisdom teeth. that's pretty cool <-- i say it is quite rare to be born with wisdom teeth hth
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04:09:12 <Sgeo> I want to like newLisp. That aforementioned able to change anything at any time thing is just... really helpful for the way I think about programming
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04:11:38 <oerjan> "I like this language, it makes it _really_ easy to shoot yourself in the foot."
04:12:16 <Bike> i like trains
04:13:00 <kmc> oerjan: oh, fair point
04:13:08 <kmc> I guess I mean they never grew wisdom teeth
04:13:17 <kmc> i keep forgetting how teeth work
04:13:22 <kmc> because it's creepy and not relevant to my life
04:13:55 * oerjan has 3 and maybe a 4th stuck in the jaw
04:14:01 <kmc> :/
04:14:07 <kmc> I got mine removed at 18
04:14:41 <oerjan> i got 4 other teeth removed for orthodontics, so when my wisdom teeth arrived they had no trouble fitting i guess.
04:18:38 <oerjan> also my left upper front tooth is a zombie, it's been reattached after an accident, but has hung on for longer dead than it was alive.
04:19:55 <kmc> yeah I got loads of teeth removed as a kid
04:19:59 <kmc> teeth comin' out every which way
04:20:05 <kmc> guess they were the temporary teeth cause I still have plenty
04:20:32 <oerjan> those are supposed to fall off by themselves, usually.
04:20:45 <kmc> yeah i don't remember the deal
04:20:55 <oerjan> although i guess it is common to speed up the process a _little_.
04:22:05 <Sgeo> Then again, people hate Tcl too
04:22:37 <oerjan> Sgeo: yes, that's why they have all the teeth trouble.
04:30:10 <Sgeo> Having a link to http://newlisponrockets.com/rundragonfly.com really inspires confidence in the newlisp on rockets web framework
04:30:52 <oerjan> `run spot run
04:30:53 <HackEgo> Woof!
04:31:00 <Sgeo> Seriously, what is with all those external links getting turned into nonsense internal ones?
04:31:07 <Sgeo> In general, not newlisponrockets
04:32:07 <polytone> It's what happens when you forget "http://".
04:33:05 <Sgeo> <a href="rundragonfly.com">Dragonfly</a>
04:33:09 <Bike> lol
04:33:30 <Bike> why is it on rockets? shouldn't it be like... what's transportation starting with n
04:33:37 <Bike> nega-standing-still
04:33:40 <polytone> Nissans.
04:33:52 <Bike> probably some trademark issues there
04:34:18 <kmc> Scheme on Schienenzeppelin
04:35:23 <oerjan> scheme on skateboards, surely
04:36:21 <Sgeo> polytone: and I call myself a web dev :/
04:36:59 <Sgeo> Although, I generally don't programmatically produce a tags, so
04:37:29 <Sgeo> At least not server-side... what am I trying to make excuses for, exactly>
04:38:00 <Bike> noone knows
04:38:02 <polytone> Bike: Or a product placement opportunity!
04:38:30 <Bike> definitely what nissan needs from some nerd-ass programming language
04:38:38 <Sgeo> https://www.optimum.net/support/notification/#?type=cms-detailed&id=40879
04:38:51 <Sgeo> Is that a particularly ugly URL? It's kind of my fault
04:39:10 <kmc> seems legit
04:39:16 <Bike> it seems weird that you have get parameters in an anchor?
04:39:18 <Bike> er, fragment
04:39:26 <polytone> Probably AJAX loading stuff.
04:39:57 <polytone> I'd ordinarily be annoyed, but for some reason I'm feeling pretty chill about it.
04:47:47 <Sgeo> polytone: are you annoyed by AJAX, or the preponderance of that sort of URL that AJAX seems to bring about?
04:48:34 <polytone> The URL mangling.
04:49:05 <polytone> We have history manipulation now, basically.
04:49:37 <Sgeo> Does IE8 support history manipulation?
04:50:30 <polytone> http://caniuse.com/history
04:50:34 <polytone> Short answer's "no."
04:51:00 <Sgeo> Indeed.
04:51:46 <Bike> farther future
04:52:58 <Sgeo> WHY is curry a macro in newLisp?
04:53:19 <Sgeo> erm, hmm. fexpr, I guess
04:54:46 <oerjan> dangling dangling links with mangling
04:54:54 <Sgeo> (define (make-adder n)
04:54:54 <Sgeo> (expand (lambda (x) (+ x n)) 'n))
04:55:04 <Sgeo> oh god this looks like it has the potential to be really terrible
04:55:18 <Bike> expand?
04:55:20 <Sgeo> if there are non-obvious references to n in expands argument
04:55:32 <Bike> does that make a closure?
04:55:35 <Sgeo> "newLISP uses either expand or letex to make n part of the lambda expression as a constant, or it uses curry:"
04:55:42 <Sgeo> http://www.newlisp.org/index.cgi?Closures
04:56:30 <Sgeo> "In the first syntax, one symbol in sym (or more in sym-2 through sym-n) is looked up in a simple or nested expression exp. They are then expanded to the current binding of the symbol and the expanded expression is returned. The original list remains unchanged."
04:56:36 <Sgeo> Hmm, maybe expand is a fexpr?
04:56:38 <Bike> already bored
04:56:40 <Sgeo> I would be ok with it then
04:56:51 <Bike> what's the deal with 1,3,5-cyclooctotriene Sgeo
04:57:00 <Sgeo> It's almost like a sucky quasiquote
04:57:24 <kmc> oh, is that faking lexical closure using a hacky quasiquote-like thing
04:57:25 <kmc> gah
04:57:35 <kmc> why is that better than lexical scope
04:57:48 * kmc sets fire to flames
04:59:05 <Sgeo> letex is a slightly easier to read hacky quasiquote-like thing
05:02:17 <Bike> oh, so (expand (lambda (x) (+ x n)) 'n) "macroexpands" to (lambda (x) (+ x 4)) if n is 4? that's kind of neat
05:02:29 <Bike> i mean i'd rather have that and lexical closures.
05:07:16 <Sgeo> Oh good newLisp doesn't require fexprs to be named
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05:41:35 <Sgeo> Just realized why Picolisp is hated much less than Newlisp despite also having dynamic scoping:
05:41:52 <Sgeo> Consistent naming conventions, functions begin with lowercase arguments begin with uppercase
05:42:13 <Sgeo> And there are also transient symbols, not sure how those figure into safety in the dynamic-scoping environment
05:42:30 <kmc> how do those work
05:43:57 <Sgeo> transient symbols? I think once the ... something or other is closed (when the current file is no longer read, or by calling ====), then you cannot lexically refer to the transient symbols you were just using
05:44:05 <Sgeo> "foo" (====) "foo"
05:44:10 <Sgeo> Two different symbols foo
05:45:15 <kmc> interesting
05:45:24 <kmc> reminds me just a little of C++ anonymous namespaces
05:45:50 <kmc> is the idea that you use these in macros to prevent capture? or what
05:46:02 <Sgeo> kmc: I...'m not sure
05:46:12 <Sgeo> I think they're used as argument names sometimes, at least
05:46:32 <Sgeo> oh god dammit newlisp
05:47:17 <Sgeo> http://pastie.org/8656031
05:48:08 <Sgeo> Hmm, maybe that behavior isn't as terrible as I'm thinking
05:48:37 <Sgeo> It's not like a lambda is going to include a variable reference to another lambda, all it should have are symbols
05:48:40 <Sgeo> I think
05:48:50 <Sgeo> (And lists)
05:49:13 <kmc> what's going on here is that in a dynamic lisp there's no need to distinguish a function value from a lambda expression?
05:49:20 <kmc> i.e. the lambda special form evaluates to itself
05:49:56 <Sgeo> I was thinking though that the behavior shown would somehow be unsafe since you're expanding a symbol that isn't lexically obvious
05:50:18 <Sgeo> But it's only one layer of indirection, and I am starting to think a literal lambda should be safe
05:51:05 <Sgeo> (ANd yes, NewLisp lambdas evaluate to themselves... a special kind of list)
05:52:24 <Bike> oldLisp
05:56:02 <Sgeo> People seem to think the thing I just said is one of the most horrible things about newLisp. I don't understand why.
05:56:56 <Bike> people like having a kind of objects as important as functions be distinct from other datatypes in some important way
05:57:04 <kmc> it seems natural when you have dynamic scope
05:57:14 <kmc> and if you're really commited to the Lisp Way
05:57:22 <kmc> but also, it breaks extensionality
05:57:32 <Sgeo> extensionality?
05:57:41 <kmc> i can write a function that distinguishes (lambda (x) x) from (lambda (y) y)
05:57:48 <kmc> but you can do that in some lexically scoped languages too
05:58:04 <Bike> like which
05:58:08 <kmc> C#, Python
05:58:16 <kmc> prolly Java
05:58:24 <Bike> are they actually guaranteed distinct?
05:58:41 <kmc> languages where functions are callable but they're also objects w/ methods and properties and shit, some of which let you inspect the guts
05:59:07 <kmc> Bike: don't know
06:03:42 <zzo38> kmc: JavaScript functions are objects too
06:05:52 <zzo38> And I think that kind of distinction is also possible in JavaScript
06:06:19 <kmc> ok
06:06:27 <kmc> you can convert a function to a string, if nothing else
06:07:46 <kmc> http://pastebin.ca/2572659
06:08:55 <kmc> oh I should have used ===, I have brought dishonor on my entire family
06:09:18 <kmc> Sgeo: thanks to you I now know of a language with a ==== operator, although it's not for equality
06:10:13 <copumpkin> what's it for?
06:10:19 <Sgeo> http://software-lab.de/doc/ref_.html#====
06:10:28 <Sgeo> copumpkin: closes the transient index
06:10:34 <copumpkin> oh, of course
06:10:37 <Sgeo> *clears the transient index
06:15:41 <Sgeo> "Note: All HTML code is removed (< and > translated to & lt ; and & gt ; respectively) to avoid
06:15:41 <Sgeo> cross-site scripting issues. URLs are transformed into clickable links. Some UBB code is also
06:15:41 <Sgeo> translated, for example bold, italic, underline, and code tags."
06:15:57 <Sgeo> The function to do that is in the "basic functions" section of the docs
06:16:04 <Sgeo> http://newlisponrockets.com/rockets-documentation.lsp
06:16:28 <kmc> you can write PHP in any language
06:16:59 <Sgeo> I guess I can check if Dragonfly was any better
06:30:41 <kmc> Zarqa and Zinor would be a good name for a band
06:30:58 <zzo38> Can you tell me now if you think music for "Attribute Zone" game is OK so far? Now I included the .NSF file; most NES/Famicom emulators should play it and so will some music playing programs; I believe the music program that comes standard with Ubuntu will play it.
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06:52:24 <oerjan> the ban list might soon do with some cleanup
06:53:17 <Bike> dont, stop me, nowwwww
06:54:06 * oerjan ties Bike's shoelaces together
06:55:58 * Bike falls to the side, moving kickstand ineffectively
06:57:57 <oerjan> it's your bloody fault for putting shoes on a bike in the first place.
06:59:20 * oerjan unties shoelaces then rings Bike's bell.
06:59:28 <Bike> honk
07:00:00 <oerjan> that's a funny bell sound
07:00:07 * oerjan toots Bike's horn instead
07:01:02 <quintopia> zzo38: please link the file
07:02:16 <Bike> honding
07:14:26 <Sgeo> totally http://www.prime-numbers.org/
07:14:57 <Sgeo> I shouldn't make fun, I guess
07:17:29 <oerjan> yes you should. htf can you download all primes up to 400 digits...
07:17:59 <quintopia> oerjan: do you know what the best base to take the log in in the prime number theorem to get best bound?
07:18:34 <Sgeo> oerjan: but I was more poking fun at the 'totally'
07:18:35 <Sgeo> :/
07:18:41 <oerjan> quintopia: naturally.
07:18:45 <Sgeo> Which is also in the detail information
07:19:54 <quintopia> oerjan: yeah?
07:20:12 <oerjan> yeah what
07:20:14 <quintopia> Sgeo: totally was once a synonym for "in total"
07:20:22 <quintopia> oerjan: the natural base works best?
07:20:37 <oerjan> quintopia: that's the one used in the theorem...
07:20:37 <zzo38> quintopia: It is in a ZIP archive: http://zzo38computer.org/nes_program/attrzone.zip
07:20:44 <quintopia> thanks
07:20:50 <zzo38> (You should easily be able to tell it only to extract the files you want)
07:21:08 <quintopia> zzo38: will you ever git?
07:21:43 <oerjan> totally was totally a synonym for "in total"
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07:21:59 <zzo38> quintopia: I do have git installed on Cygwin, and have repo or cz account.
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07:22:33 <quintopia> zzo38: oh okay
07:25:23 <oerjan> the next question is, what did literally literally use to mean
07:31:09 <Jafet> Would you use what literally literally used to mean literally?
07:31:11 <shachaf> what did oerjan oerjan use to mean\
07:32:07 <Sgeo> I have got to be less casual about typing rm -rf /
07:32:12 <zzo38> Do you think this music is OK? Is other file OK?
07:32:15 <shachaf> whoa, whoa, whoa, remember Mr. Tur Tur?
07:32:28 <Jafet> (Is \ a typo of ¿?)
07:32:35 <shachaf> has anyone here read that book
07:32:41 <shachaf> mauke has but he's not here
07:34:15 <Jafet> (It's probably a typo of ؟.)
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07:35:07 <shachaf> are you sure it's ؟ and not ⸮
07:35:38 <Sgeo> "Having written a compiler is definitely one of those(if not the most important) thing that upgrades a programmer, bonus point if you can write a lexer/parser in a weekend like Walter."
07:35:52 <Sgeo> Technically I have written a compiler (Braintrust -> Haskell), does that count?
07:36:06 <Bike> you'll need thirty more skill points im' afraid
07:36:23 <oerjan> `addquote <Sgeo> I have got to be less casual about typing rm -rf /
07:36:28 <HackEgo> 1161) <Sgeo> I have got to be less casual about typing rm -rf /
07:38:34 <oerjan> `unidecode ⸮
07:38:36 <HackEgo> ​[U+2E2E REVERSED QUESTION MARK]
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07:38:48 <oerjan> `unidecode ؟
07:38:50 <HackEgo> ​[U+061F ARABIC QUESTION MARK]
07:39:00 <oerjan> ic
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07:39:38 <oerjan> wtf does the latter look like what the former should look like, if my font had shown it.
07:40:07 <Sgeo> oerjan: same
07:40:29 <Jafet> U+3F REVERSED ARABIC QUESTION MARK
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08:12:08 <lifthrasiir> U+003F ARC SEGMENT FROM PI TO FIVE PI OVER TWO WITH EXTRUDED LINE SEGMENT BELOW AND DOT BELOW
08:12:31 <Bike> how do you extrude line segments
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08:16:02 <oerjan> painfully.
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13:23:48 <boily> ~metar CYUL
13:23:49 <metasepia> CYUL 221300Z 32004KT 15SM FEW010 M25/M28 A3011 RMK SF1 SF TR SLP202
13:24:08 <boily> @messages-l無d
13:24:08 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
13:24:10 <boily> @messages-l無ud
13:24:11 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
13:24:17 <int-e> too cold.
13:24:43 <boily> it's an experience.
13:24:48 <boily> @messages-lôud
13:24:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 9h 49m 2s ago: <boily> sounds delicious. <-- no, a näkki things _you_ sound delicious. hth.
13:24:48 <lambdabot> oerjan said 9h 48m 52s ago: *thinks
13:25:14 <boily> @tell oerjan maybe I'm a meta-näkki?
13:25:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:51:58 <int-e> ~metar LOWI
13:51:58 <metasepia> LOWI 221320Z VRB03KT 9999 FEW025 07/01 Q1010 R08/29//70 NOSIG
13:52:40 <boily> ~metar EFHK
13:52:41 <metasepia> EFHK 221320Z 36007KT 9999 FEW006 SCT025 M14/M17 Q1027 NOSIG
13:52:53 <boily> even Finland has clement weather...
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14:41:00 <kmc> https://github.com/fre5h/DoctrineEnumBundle/pull/12
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16:35:03 <fizzie> I don't know why, but today's M14 felt really cold.
16:35:16 <fizzie> It's not like it was especially windy or anything.
16:36:02 <boily> your M14 is humidly saturated.
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17:15:01 <benuphoenix> hi
17:15:24 <benuphoenix> does https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/mycode2a.txt make any sense to you?
17:16:50 <kmc> it looks like a program expressed as a series of instructions for a virtual machine, or something like that
17:21:09 <benuphoenix> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98841263/mycode.txt is a little saner
17:21:47 <benuphoenix> it's for a possible scripting language on top of C++
17:21:50 <benuphoenix> or C
17:22:09 * benuphoenix originally typed in incorrect channel
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18:08:51 <kmc> what makes it better than all of the existing scripting languages for C and C++?
18:09:25 <benuphoenix> the fact that i made it
18:09:33 <kmc> cool :)
18:14:28 <boily> I HAVE A NEW JOOOOOOOOOB!
18:14:39 <boily> (sorry for détourning the conversation.)
18:15:37 <quintopia> what is it
18:15:52 <quintopia> what are you
18:15:58 <quintopia> is it a pay raise
18:16:17 <zzo38> benuphoenix: That doesn't necessarily make it better or worse than others, but if it makes it useful to you then it is good to you at least.
18:16:48 <benuphoenix> i know
18:17:05 <zzo38> Without other example, as well as how it would be used with C and C++ programming, it doesn't tell much.
18:17:49 <kmc> benuphoenix: did you want some language design feedback?
18:19:51 <zzo38> So far it looks OK to me though
18:20:26 <boily> quintopia: new employer, Java/OpenGL consultant, yes.
18:22:28 <quintopia> hurray1
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18:39:05 <benuphoenix> kmc: i'll let you know if i go far enough to have a design
18:40:50 <kmc> ok
18:42:10 <kmc> it seems like quite a lot of code to do not very much
18:42:25 <zzo38> If the features of SQLite are very useful in your program, then you can use SQL as a scripting language in the C program too, and then can also be used to load extensions, store databases, etc, depending on the program it might be the useful way.
18:42:39 <kmc> why have a scripting language on top of C when it would be less code and more readable just to do the same thing in C?
18:43:14 <benuphoenix> because i need to load it into a c program
18:43:21 <zzo38> kmc: I think it is depending on the program; for some applications will be more useful to have an external scripting program
18:47:08 <kmc> benuphoenix: you can compile C code and then load it into a running C program
18:47:21 <benuphoenix> how?
18:47:40 <kmc> several ways
18:47:51 <zzo38> Dynamic linking
18:48:03 <kmc> you can invoke the compiler as an external program, make it compile a dynamic library, and then load it with (on UNIX) dlopen()
18:48:41 <benuphoenix> i need something interpreted
18:48:54 <kmc> or you can use Clang and LLVM's JIT, I believe
18:48:58 <mrhmouse> benuphoenix: do you intend for users to write in this scripting language?
18:49:15 <mrhmouse> I could understand not giving a user the full power of C
18:49:16 <benuphoenix> yes, me being the user
18:49:16 <kmc> or you can use the Tiny C Compiler as a library: http://bellard.org/tcc/tcc-doc.html
18:49:31 <kmc> benuphoenix: why does it need to be "interpreted"? what property do you mean by that?
18:50:12 <kmc> in reality almost every language implementation out there is somewhere on the spectrum between "compiled" and "interpreted"
18:50:14 <benuphoenix> it may be running on an embedded system
18:50:32 <kmc> okay
18:50:43 <kmc> Lua is a pretty nice language and has a small self-contained interpreter that you can drop into any C project
18:51:03 <benuphoenix> Lua?
18:51:06 <kmc> yes, Lua
18:51:37 <benuphoenix> isn't that a kind of pineapple?
18:51:41 <zzo38> There are several other interpreters for scripting in C, but I haven't gotten ATLAST or many others (including Lua) to work.
18:51:42 <kmc> it's also a programming language
18:52:14 <kmc> if you do a google search for "lua" you are likely to find it as the first result
18:52:59 <zzo38> Or on Wikipedia, "Lua (programming language)"
18:53:03 <kmc> there are also some small scheme interpreters, e.g. http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/home.html
18:54:09 <benuphoenix> oh. it's Portugese for Moon
18:54:20 <zzo38> And if you use any JIT (or any C compiler) then it won't be compatible with other computers either
18:54:31 <boily> benuphoenix: were you `relcomed?
18:54:34 <kmc> basically there is no need for your language to be more verbose and less nice than C, even if you are using it with C on an embedded system
18:55:05 <benuphoenix> Atmel AVR ATMega328
18:55:15 <benuphoenix> Arduino Uno
18:55:32 <benuphoenix> 2kb sram 32kb flash
18:56:23 <benuphoenix> those are my
18:56:39 <benuphoenix> i mean, that is my hardware
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18:56:58 <mrhmouse> boily: he wasn't, that I can see.
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18:57:23 <benuphoenix> what does 'relcomed mean?
18:57:53 <kmc> `relcome benuphoenix
18:57:56 <HackEgo> benuphoenix: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:58:35 <olsner> `? pineapple
18:58:37 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, therefore making it a class 6 vegetable.
18:58:56 <mrhmouse> `? lua
18:58:58 <HackEgo> lua? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:00:51 <benuphoenix> in the code i linked, all caps stuff i can think of are single byte to save space
19:01:28 <benuphoenix> i mean, use less code in interpreter
19:01:59 <mrhmouse> OT: did we ever fix `espletive to eventually give up instead of looping forever?
19:01:59 <benuphoenix> would use script
19:03:48 <kmc> `paste bin/espletive
19:03:50 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/espletive
19:04:06 <benuphoenix> whoa
19:04:13 <benuphoenix> big line
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19:05:58 <kmc> `espletive
19:05:59 <HackEgo> norfuck
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19:06:01 <kmc> `espletive
19:06:08 <HackEgo> norfuck
19:06:20 <benuphoenix> `espletive
19:06:22 <HackEgo> datefuck
19:06:32 <kmc> "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" how does this regex work?
19:07:49 <olsner> selects esolang-words containing fuck (by default)
19:08:13 <olsner> e.g. ${foo-bar} is "bar" if foo is unset
19:08:14 <kmc> i'm not familiar with the regex syntax ${1-fuck}
19:08:18 <kmc> ahh
19:08:21 <kmc> that's a shell expansion
19:08:23 <mrhmouse> kmc: the ${1-fuck} bit isn't part of the regex
19:08:28 <kmc> `espletive foo
19:08:30 <HackEgo> adedfoo
19:08:31 <mrhmouse> olsner: beat me to it
19:08:46 <benuphoenix> `ls
19:08:48 <HackEgo> 98076 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ this \ UNPA \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
19:08:59 <benuphoenix> `espletive shit
19:09:13 <benuphoenix> `espletive
19:09:16 <HackEgo> brainfuck
19:09:20 <Bike> heh.
19:09:30 <HackEgo> No output.
19:09:38 <mrhmouse> Okay, so it did eventually die
19:09:52 <mrhmouse> is that by design of HackEgo/UML?
19:11:48 <olsner> maybe words could be extended to take a regexp and just say no if it would never generate a matching word
19:13:02 <benuphoenix> main(for(;;);)
19:13:15 <mrhmouse> that would be nice. `espletive was just a quick one-liner that got more attention than I expected
19:13:40 <benuphoenix> i mean
19:13:55 <benuphoenix> main(){for(;;);}
19:14:56 <boily> #define EVER (;;)
19:15:05 <boily> main(){for EVER;}
19:17:06 <kmc> 31 c0 b0 39 0f 05 eb f8
19:20:23 <benuphoenix> ?
19:20:36 <boily> kmc: 0x57686174207468652066756e676f7420697320746861743f
19:20:58 <kmc> boily: amd64 linux forkbomb
19:21:39 <boily> the scientist in me wants to reproduce the experiment to confirm its validity, but the common-senseist is yelling «FAIS PAS ÇA!» in my head.
19:21:46 <olsner> looks like it'll work on both 32 and 64-bit
19:22:05 <kmc> olsner: I think the syscall numbers are different :/
19:22:06 <shachaf> "syscall" and the 64-bit syscall numbers work on 32-bit?
19:22:18 <kmc> also you can't assume the existence of the SYSCALL instruction on 32-bit
19:22:52 <olsner> true, but I think the cpus that have it also have it in 32-bit?
19:22:53 <shachaf> in particular i hear intel cpus won't support it, even if they support it in 64-bit mode
19:22:58 <kmc> odd
19:23:02 <kmc> does Linux still let 64-bit-native processes execute 32-bit syscalls using int $0x80
19:23:08 <kmc> that was a fun quirk
19:23:13 <shachaf> i think so
19:23:32 <kmc> esp. because it made CVE-2010-3081 exploitable under more different circumstances
19:23:53 <kmc> that CVE was Ksplice's big break
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19:27:12 <benuphoenix> what's the exploit that turns computers into clowns?
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19:30:13 <benuphoenix> pegasus
19:30:27 <benuphoenix> s/pegasus//
19:32:09 <elliott> password?
19:32:50 <Bike> not on freenode
19:33:49 <benuphoenix> Bike: w\hat the fuckk is your problem?
19:34:07 <benuphoenix> e tried to log in to my account
19:34:33 <elliott> that tends to happen when you say something that looks suspiciously like a password in a public IRC channel :P
19:35:13 <benuphoenix> pegasus is a password?
19:35:19 <Bike> evidently not
19:35:43 <benuphoenix> the password is always swordfish.
19:35:50 <benuphoenix> (not really)
19:36:24 <kmc> Bike did you try to nickserv identify as benuphoenix?
19:36:31 <benuphoenix> yes
19:36:38 <kmc> that seems rude
19:36:40 <kmc> don't do that
19:37:13 <Taneb> kmc, can I nickserv identify as some idiot like Ngevd
19:37:15 <elliott> ghosting people who leak their password is traditional!!
19:37:44 <kmc> lol Taneb
19:38:02 <Taneb> I mean, I know his password and everything
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19:46:34 <boily> My password is ******************.
19:46:38 <boily> (no, it isn't hunter2)
19:46:50 <FireFly> hunter2hunter2?
19:46:50 <kmc> is it hunter3
19:47:03 <fizzie> "My voice is my passport. Verify me."
19:47:22 <olsner> fungot: what is your passport?
19:47:22 <fungot> olsner: eleven is in fact not jump, duck duck goose.
19:47:45 <boily> FireFly: nice try.
19:47:54 * boily lightly mapoles kmc
19:48:57 <FireFly> fungot: fascinating.
19:48:58 <fungot> FireFly: i've been reading it... that's totally wrong.
19:49:10 <FireFly> fungot: stop lying to us then!
19:49:11 <fungot> FireFly: you could return normally, i'm in melbourne... which is kinda weird since i haven't been able to recognize the odd bits ( as opposed to
19:49:29 <FireFly> Pretty sure that is a lie, too
19:49:43 <boily> fizzie: please chastise your bot. he is being uncouth.
19:51:20 <fizzie> fungot: Just... try to behave, for once.
19:51:21 <fungot> fizzie: i need to replace main.c totally i think i'll just stop capitalizing the ' w' in my interpreter :)), so you
19:52:14 <boily> the Legendary Capitalized W Ethics Problem strikes again.
19:52:56 <fizzie> "I'd behave, but then I'd need to replace main.c totally" is such an obvious excuse.
19:56:55 <boily> W := “totally replacing your own main.c”
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20:41:11 <benuphoenix> /nickserv identify notmypassword
20:41:59 <benuphoenix> good. no morons in the room.
20:42:18 <elliott> no, I'm still here
20:44:07 <mrhmouse> Me too.
20:44:14 -!- benuphoenix has left ("i gotta go...leaving all non-critical channels").
20:45:05 <boily> since when is our Fine Chännel non-critical?
20:45:40 <mrhmouse> fungot: are we non-critical?
20:45:40 <fungot> mrhmouse: so on right side, as you would in c though.)
20:46:19 <boily> the right side of C is mainly semi-colons.
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20:47:07 <boily> http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Letter+Less+critical+fewer+semicolons+2014/9346201/story.html ← less critical, fewer semicolons, so there is an inverse relationship between criticality and the usage of “;”.
20:47:38 <boily> s/inverse/direct/
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20:51:03 <Slereah_> Fuck you;;;;;;;;;;
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20:52:50 <boily> ~dice 20
20:52:51 <metasepia> 17 --- Sum = 17
20:52:57 * boily uncritically mapoles Slereah_
21:00:38 <mrhmouse> metasepia doesn't respond to PMs?
21:02:13 <boily> sadly not. it will in the next version.
21:02:29 <boily> (you can also file an issue at https://github.com/pfcuttle/metasepia)
21:03:18 <mrhmouse> (you should probably fix issue #1 first)
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21:04:29 <boily> (la la la I don't see no issue #1 laaaa la lalalalalala ♪)
21:06:31 <mrhmouse> (I don't remember why we're lispering)
21:07:19 <boily> (I like lispering. parenthesises are fun!)
21:08:21 <boily> fungot: how many punctuational symbols do you regularly use? what is your degree of semicolonial confrontationalism?
21:08:21 <fungot> boily: humanity could be killed. and, um, fnord broken. :) thx to forcer and donut too :) i luv this channel recently. it's often a case that it will if you start up edwin, which i also happened to stop working on fffungi for now, it's worth 19 and made by a low-quality digital camera
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21:37:57 <Taneb> I am increasingly edging towards running for student union president on a platform of EVIL
21:39:55 <fizzie> The Platform of Doo<span style="letter-spacing: -0.1em;">rn</span>, eh?
21:41:43 <Taneb> Pretty much
21:42:05 <Taneb> The question is, could I be as good a SU president as Mad Cap'n Tom?
21:58:25 <shachaf> `olist (940)
21:58:27 <HackEgo> olist (940): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily
22:04:08 <FireFly> Danke
22:08:03 <FireFly> `quoteadd <fungot> [...] i also happened to stop working on fffungi for now, it's worth 19 and made by a low-quality digital camera
22:08:03 <fungot> FireFly: well, i can write programs faster in scheme than there are free common lisps. only cmucl was coming close. :d
22:08:04 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quoteadd: not found
22:08:25 <FireFly> Oh, it's addquote, isn't it?
22:08:32 <FireFly> `addquote <fungot> [...] i also happened to stop working on fffungi for now, it's worth 19 and made by a low-quality digital camera
22:08:32 <fungot> FireFly: ( i think), putting the executable in the right skit?
22:08:36 <HackEgo> 1162) <fungot> [...] i also happened to stop working on fffungi for now, it's worth 19 and made by a low-quality digital camera
22:09:55 <shachaf> fungot: whoa, that's p. fast. there are lots of free common lisps
22:09:56 <fungot> shachaf: you are asking.
22:10:02 <shachaf> (that's why they're called common)
22:10:09 <shachaf> fungot: U+261D
22:10:10 <fungot> shachaf: lol, you're going to be
22:10:14 <FireFly> aaah
22:10:14 <shachaf> ^style
22:10:14 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
22:10:38 <FireFly> shachaf: you're going to *be*! how do you feel about that?
22:11:06 <shachaf> fungot: tell FireFly how i feel
22:11:06 <fungot> shachaf: i was waiting for lauri to make a decent zip handler that actually works with emacs under windows? i'm moving away from the rapid transit system that gets me the most, information processing science
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23:47:30 <Taneb> Help how can I demonstrate what a turing machine is in like 2 minutes
23:58:16 <nooodl_> simulate one!
23:58:40 <nooodl_> current cell and state light up -> entry in lookup table lights up -> tape pointer moves and writes a value
23:59:27 <shachaf> the Taneb Machine
23:59:27 <nooodl_> (make a little table of "states x alphabet -> directions x alphabet" or whatever and display it under the tape)
23:59:42 <shachaf> can i get a ticket
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