00:00:03 well, i imagine that you can do something like for any Alexandrov space, more generally 00:00:38 since every Alexandrov space corresponds to a preörder and every preörder has a dual 00:04:16 mhm 00:08:09 and it has no name?? 00:21:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:22:47 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 00:22:57 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:25:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:32:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:30:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 01:41:18 -!- augur has joined. 01:41:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:41:53 -!- augur has joined. 01:42:49 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:43:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:44:11 -!- Bike has joined. 02:20:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:34:31 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:54:47 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:09:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 03:19:12 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:59:06 -!- gdjfgh has quit. 04:02:20 * ski . o O ( ) 04:02:33 oerjan : have you seen "Topology Via Logic" by Steven Vickers ? 04:02:45 nope. 04:02:55 not that i recall. 04:03:45 "It will either prove or disprove, or maybe neither." 04:03:50 http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/showbiz/justin-bieber-vandalism-probe/index.html?hpt=hp_t3 04:05:27 that should about cover it, then 04:10:43 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:10:53 -!- mauke has joined. 04:13:12 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:14:27 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:14:35 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 04:32:22 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 04:33:03 -!- Sellyme has joined. 04:40:07 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 04:55:26 ski: is that the same Steve Vickers who works at my department? 04:55:40 if so, it's weird seeing people casually namedrop my colleagues, /again/ 04:58:43 ais523 : i don't know what department you're at, but it's the Vickers at 04:58:52 ski: same one, then 04:58:54 that's my department 05:04:07 maybe RE = open fits better because if you have a union of RE sets such that the turing machines giving them are enumerated by a turing machine, then the union is RE 05:04:45 hm good point 05:05:33 @tell shachaf see oklopol in logs 05:05:33 Consider it noted. 05:09:44 hmm, my Turing-completeness-without-player-action proof for Magic: the Gathering is almost complete 05:10:10 any Magic fans (b_jonas?) here happen to know a way to cause an arbitrary creature to stop being a creature, while keeping its rules text around? 05:10:14 it's OK if it's silly 05:10:44 when you discuss for example the full shift S^\Z for a finite set S (that is, the cantor space), you want to talk about open sets which are somehow computable, and closed sets which are somehow computable 05:10:55 what you do is say you have an "RE open set" 05:11:19 which means that a turing machine outputs words w such that every word with central pattern w is in your set 05:11:27 and you have coRE closed sets 05:11:40 by outputting words w such that no word with w in the center is in your set 05:13:26 well i don't know what percentage of humans would say that, but you certainly could say that 05:13:48 actually I think you can just turn it into a copy of a licid until end of turn, but that doesn't really work for what I want as then it gets enchant creature, which I don't want either 05:13:59 basically the idea is that it needs to be able to survive infinitely many -1/-1 effects 05:16:00 o.O at Unexpected Results 05:20:50 "You can concede a game while Platinum Angel on the battlefield. A concession causes you to leave the game, which then causes you to lose the game (Once you concede, you no longer control a Platinum Angel, so its ability can't prevent you from losing the game)." 05:21:05 Why did there need to be a ruling on this? 05:21:18 As in, did someone concede then dispute the concession? 05:22:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: You're asking whether geeks did something ridiculously pedantic?). 05:23:18 yeah, I like oerjan's explanation for this 05:23:58 hi ais523 05:24:04 hi quintopia 05:24:51 ais523: do you want to review the language we discussed the other day before I post it to the wiki 05:24:58 which one is that? 05:25:27 the empowered NOMW 05:25:51 ais523: what's oerjan's explanation? 05:26:04 Sgeo: see the quit message 05:26:09 "(Quit: You're asking whether geeks did something ridiculously pedantic?)" 05:26:24 quintopia: not sure I remember, what does NOMW stand for? 05:26:24 oh 05:26:48 noit o' mnain worb 05:28:12 quintopia: ah right 05:28:21 you may as well just post it, and then I can look at it there 05:28:25 ais523: also are you working on refining the MTG TM? remove the requirement that a player has an option? 05:28:32 quintopia: yep 05:28:37 I'm trying to remove phasing altogether 05:28:44 :O 05:28:45 via inventing an esolang that maps more directly than a TM does 05:29:02 actually, I guess just giving these creatures all creature types would work 05:29:16 can you give a creature all creature types? 05:29:27 artificial evolution only changes the creature type right 05:29:35 it was a mechanic in lorwyn block 05:29:47 I'm pretty sure at least one card granted it to arbitrary creatures 05:30:45 yes 05:30:50 it's a red pump spell 05:30:57 actually there's an entire cycle 05:31:00 "X of velis vel" 05:31:04 just checked gatherer 05:31:13 also amoeboid changeling, which has it as a tap ability 05:31:13 ah 05:31:26 I could only remember the red one, plus nameless inversion 05:31:29 err, not a cycle 05:31:35 red, white, and blue 05:31:38 but no green or black 05:32:05 how bizarre 05:32:26 you clearly know mtg much better than me 05:32:31 anyone know how many creature types there are offhand? this construction needs like 200 05:33:49 more than that, surely? 05:33:54 I think so 05:38:38 http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1vc7ot/if_a_future_civilization_found_a_complete_set_of/ 05:39:40 so can you design a magic deck such that with probability 1, no matter what the players do, a particular computation emerges 05:39:43 Sgeo: the "what happens if you play Floral Spuzzem and you're using that Un-card that removes errata" has become something of an inside joke 05:39:48 i guess they can just say "okay i give up"? 05:40:01 but other than that, how likely is it that you can do that 05:40:03 I believe the current opinion is that the Floral Spuzzem gets a loss for slow ply 05:40:04 *play 05:40:15 oklopol: they could also not play any spells 05:40:21 there aren't any cards that force you to play them 05:40:30 no could there be, reasonably, it'd be impossible to enforce 05:42:49 why? 05:44:15 because nobody but the person holding them would know that they'd drawn them 05:44:29 there are many card games with such rules though 05:44:50 it feels really wrong but works in practice 05:45:06 the Magic designers are really worried about that sort of cheating, for some reason 05:45:07 because people are honest 05:45:20 they were worried even about designing cards that gave you a bonus if you played them immediately upon drawing them 05:45:36 ? 05:45:37 or cards that let you look at a set of cards from your deck without changing their order 05:46:00 both of which are enforceable by the opponent, but only if they pay attention to how your hands are moving 05:46:17 i see 05:46:31 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:46:55 so, i need to do some linear algebra homework, invert matrices and stuff 05:47:24 that sucks. 05:47:35 sucks huge ass 05:47:58 also yesterday my gf was watching and kept saying "why did you write 99 there btw?" 05:48:02 so i had to explain 05:48:03 everything 05:48:14 the worst part is she was always right and it was supposed to be something else 05:48:27 lol 05:48:49 i'm sure i have much to teach these people 05:49:56 like, "why did you write 99?" 05:49:59 oh, good quesiton 05:50:01 *question 05:50:13 see what i did was realize that i am interested in the span of these vectors 05:50:26 and i know that if i sum these vectors like this, then the span does not change, but 05:50:34 "NO NO i mean 90 + 5 is 95, not 99" 05:51:13 http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2039#comic 05:51:53 :P 05:52:43 (she does know matrices though, i just lecture to everyone equally) 05:58:59 Both Factor and Rebol look backwards sometimes, and forwards other times 05:59:11 I'm pretty sure both prefix-only and postfix-only suck 06:03:48 ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Not_The_Main_Worb 06:03:58 quintopia: I like the name :-) 06:04:41 also, that's a really good reason to have image-based source code 06:06:42 quintopia: it's not Turing-complete unless you give it infinite memory somehow 06:06:53 ais523: i didn't say it was 06:07:05 say by tiling the plane with it, with different tiled copies being taken to have different labels 06:07:22 you said you could construct TC families 06:08:09 I do think that construction at the bottom proves it NP-hard to determine whether a stable state exists for any given NTMW program, though 06:08:15 ais523: which implies that one is allowed to generate circuits with a limited TM, yes? 06:08:32 quintopia: yeah but TCness doesn't work like that 06:08:52 being able to produce arbitrary circuits is proof of NP difficulty, though 06:09:04 ais523: I'll change it to LBA then. happy? 06:09:08 what's more interesting is whether that's PSPACE-complete 06:09:18 quintopia: no because it doesn't take input, that's part of the definition of LBA 06:09:41 ais523: we can define input size as "number of raw sources and sinks" 06:09:50 there's a whole different set of complexities for things with finite memory, like that finite state machine 06:09:53 that's code size, not input size 06:10:09 ais523: they function as input to the circuit 06:10:25 err, no? 06:10:30 why do i keep pinging you no one else is talking 06:10:45 because they act deterministically, there's no input being received from outside 06:10:52 and if there /were/, you still wouldn't have an LBA 06:11:03 there's no input being received from outside when a TM starts with its input on the tape also 06:11:04 because the amount of data storage you have is not proportional to the size of the input you've received 06:11:16 Turing machines also aren't LBAs, though 06:11:33 the LBA restrictions of Turing machines require you to implement a separate input mechanism 06:11:41 i'm just saying your objection to calling parts of the code "input" is invalid 06:12:03 I'm saying you can't arbitrarily define some lines of code (or pixels of code, in this case) to be input 06:12:07 because that makes no sense 06:12:17 why not? 06:12:18 input isn't part of the code, by definition 06:12:41 why can't i draw a line across the image and say "everything on this line is input, everything else is code" 06:12:52 now, you could define a preprocessor that compiled input into circuitry, then you probably would have an LBA 06:12:53 " being able to produce arbitrary circuits is proof of NP difficulty, though" ? 06:13:15 maybe the circuit is something different than i imagine 06:13:48 oklopol: because if you can create an arbitrary circuit out of AND/OR/NOT/delay (even random delay), you can create a binary counter and a check circuit 06:13:51 and use it to solve 3SAT 06:13:56 or even pick out a set of pixels and say "these particular pixels are not code. they are input." 06:14:29 but usually if you can make arbitrary evaluate-only circuits, you get P completeness (you get any computation, but it's deterministic), or if the circuit has loops, you get PSPACE-hardness (because you can run any computation in the polynomial space that the logspace transducer gave you in the form of the circuit) 06:14:35 quintopia: because it doesn't make sense, for a particular program, for its data storage to be proportional in the size of the input, because the input has a fixed size 06:14:41 being a specific set of pixels 06:14:43 okay, so PSPACE-hard 06:14:51 because you can also check QSAT 06:14:57 with that same algo 06:14:57 oklopol: good, I was wondering if it was also PSPACE-hard 06:15:05 but didn't know how to prove it 06:15:29 quintopia: PSPACE-hardness is one of the highest computational classes an FSM can have, so I think the language is fulfilling its purpose pretty well 06:15:50 * ais523 looks up QSAT 06:15:52 yeah circuits don't get higher than that 06:15:55 ais523: okay imagine that the circuit family definition expands in a particular way, so that every time you add one pixel of input, you add a fixed number of other pixels that serve that pixel's input? 06:16:08 fsvo circuit 06:16:18 quintopia: then it's an LBA, agreed 06:16:27 i thought we were talking about circuit families all along here and now i find out you were talking about one particular circuit 06:16:38 right 06:17:04 this is the "input via preprocessor" idea I explained above 06:17:33 you could call it that. or you could just call it "the definition of the circuit family" 06:19:00 anyway, what if adding a pixel of input required adding a circuit proportional in size to the depth of the circuit you're adding to and increasing the depth by 1, so that the circuit size grows quadratically with input size? what is that? 06:19:48 * oklopol mumbles something about logspace-uniform circuit families 06:20:00 fuck uniformity! :D 06:20:19 wow, so it seems that the strongest known "P≠NP"-like result in the normal chain of complexity classes is "NL≠PSPACE" 06:20:23 * oklopol has been reading too much complexity theory lately 06:20:28 that's… not a very strong result 06:20:28 ais523: so should i just say it can "probably" allow the creation of PSPACE-complete circuit families? 06:20:40 quintopia: you can say that it's PSPACE-hard 06:20:52 um 06:20:56 actually, I think it's trivially PSPACE-complete 06:21:16 ok? 06:21:29 ais523: the thing is in the usual chain, there's only a "space steps" exponential jumps apart, and "time steps" exponential jumps apart. 06:21:30 given that oklopol proved it PSPACE-hard and it obviously doesn't take more than nondetrminstic polynomial space to simulate 06:21:33 and NPSPACE = PSPACE 06:21:41 the thing is, we cannot compare space and time in a nontrivial way 06:21:54 ah right 06:21:58 i'll put that then 06:22:03 well PSPACE is know to be a subset of EXPTIME 06:22:22 however, we have stronger separation results than just that an adding an exponential amount of space gives you new languages 06:22:41 right 06:22:45 and similarly for time 06:22:47 I'm not very good at complexity theory 06:22:55 like, I know the very basics, just not much more than that 06:23:21 well i know more than the basics, but it's more of a hobby for me 06:23:34 ais523: I thought we at least had P != PSPACE 06:23:52 (although we're probably gonna publish some gadget stuff soon) 06:23:55 coppro: not according to Wikipedia, apparently that's still an open problem 06:23:58 and definitely have P != EXPTIME, right? 06:24:00 coppro: we don't have that 06:24:08 P != EXPTIME because both are time classes 06:24:12 yeah, you have P≠EXPTIME 06:24:16 right, ok 06:24:31 P=PSPACE would be even more surprising than P=NP, of course 06:24:33 i know how to prove Savitch's Theorem and...I know Dick Lipton's theorem about how the polynomial hierarchy collapses, but I don't recall the proof since it's been so long since I was in his class. 06:24:48 P vs NP? no one knows because they are different types of classes. P vs PSPACE? no one knows because they are different types of classes. (except for trivial relations) 06:25:00 similarly for quantum stuff, but now there are no comparisons... 06:25:28 interestingly, randomness can be compared in nontrivial ways 06:25:37 (you come up with fun ways to approximate sizes of sets) 06:26:10 There exists an oracle separation between BQP and BPP at least 06:26:17 which is actually kinda surprising 06:26:36 yeah oracle separations exist for many things 06:27:53 i don't really know what BQP is 06:28:01 BPP except with a quantum computer 06:28:12 but it's coming up soon in my complexity theory bedtime stories book 06:28:23 huh, P_{CTC} (deterministic computations with closed timelike curves) = PSPACE 06:28:38 cool 06:28:46 not that surprising 06:29:12 oh i guess that's basically what i said about circuits with self-loops 06:29:13 at the very least, it's obvious that P_{CTC} contains NP 06:29:18 but in a fancy disguise 06:29:27 yeah 06:30:02 okay so next 06:30:06 find solutions to 06:30:16 x+3y-2z+u=-2 06:30:22 draughts is EXPTIME-complete? that's surprising 06:30:28 2x+7y+3z+4u=16 06:30:40 -x-y+4z+15u=6 06:30:56 oklopol: i'm not your CAS. invert your own damn matrices. 06:31:03 isn't that just linear programming? 06:31:20 also, where's the fourth equation 06:31:26 what's a CAS? 06:31:29 you could do it without matrices 06:31:34 oklopol: Computer Algebra System 06:31:38 like Maple or Mathematica 06:31:41 oh right 06:32:03 HE DOESN'T EVEN SPECIFY THE FIELD, HOW ARE THE STUDENTS SUPPOSED TO GUESS 06:32:16 ais523: doing elimination of large systems by hand is annoying. so is taking determinants. so is taking inverses. so, no, use a CAS. 06:32:19 that particular problem, I'd guess it's rational numbers 06:32:47 quintopia: that thing isn't large enough that I'd be annoyed at having to use elimination or substitution on it 06:32:49 quintopia: there's no fourth equation 06:32:53 it's clearly the finite field of order 23 06:32:56 that's why this is problem 6 already. 06:33:38 oklopol: so your answer is supposed to be another equation? 06:34:02 "find solutions" probably means "give the solution set in a more explicit form" 06:34:10 @messages-lead 06:34:11 oerjan said 1h 28m 37s ago: see oklopol in logs 06:34:22 i just said something about RE vs open 06:34:30 a good cas oughta be able to do that shit for ya 06:34:39 or matlab or whateverthefuck 06:34:59 making people do matrix computation by hand is pointless and cruel. 06:35:50 oklopol: the solution set should be a line right?????????????????????????????????? 06:36:35 the typical solution will be 1-dimensional, yes 06:36:53 i have no idea about this particular one yet 06:37:35 it cannot be unique, but it can be also two or three dimensional in theory 06:39:15 ah true 06:39:37 but those equations LOOK LIKE THEY ARE PROBABLY INDEPENDENT 06:39:48 yes 06:40:06 why are you reading this book oklopol 06:40:07 this reminds me that i didn't know until a few months ago that solving systems of polynomials is A Hard Problem 06:40:23 because, i don't know, i'm an idiot probably 06:40:29 if someone asks you if a matrix is invertible, you can always safely say yes 06:40:35 haha 06:40:41 i knew a fun fact about that... 06:41:01 oklopol: is the zero matrix invertible??????????????????? 06:41:16 but you will encounter that during your lifetime with 0 probability, even if you live forever. 06:41:25 oerjan: Right, so it's more complicated than "finite union", I guess. 06:41:28 assuming you only look at real matrices 06:41:29 i think it was like, if you have the set of matrices with normal random entries around zero, then the average matrix is singular and the singular matrices are measure zero 06:41:31 oh 06:41:59 you meant "if someone asks you if a randomly selected real matrix is invertible..." 06:42:00 i guess it probably doesn't matter if they're normal 06:42:22 every time you analyze a joke a frog dies, quintopia, and they are an important part of many ecosystems. 06:42:43 wait what 06:43:01 was that a joke?????? oklohelpol!!!! 06:43:09 :D 06:43:15 yeah it was a joke 06:43:21 a reeeeally funny one 06:43:30 basically what Bike said 06:44:32 the joke being that the singular matrices are generally measure zero, but you're still going to run into them because mathematicians don't sample uniformly, they look for the most pathological bullshit possible :p 06:44:48 yes, like the all zero matrix 06:44:57 where do they come up with that stuff! 06:44:59 i thought i was making that joke 06:45:00 the bullshit matrix 06:45:11 eaifheifhaiefh 06:45:20 fasdfsdfrefrewf 06:45:34 ...it seems i have yet to solve my equation 06:50:52 okay it's done 06:52:46 (i got {(7,-1,3,0) + u(28,-9,1,1) | u \in \R\} as the set of solutions) 06:53:01 plausible. 07:15:06 -!- b_jonas has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:26:31 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:35:26 Screw concatenativity, I want mixfix 07:36:54 1 > 2 if [ "Math broke" print ] [ "Math didn't break" print ] 07:37:29 Words could take in both a past stack and a future stack 07:38:21 Sgeo: without the print it would actually look nice 07:39:11 Hmm, what's wrong with the print? But this should be valid too 07:39:23 1 > 2 if [ "Math broke" ] [ "Math didn't break" ] print 07:40:02 Hmm... if print took a future argument instead, this would kind of not work 07:40:16 print 1 > 2 if [ "Math broke" ] [ "Math didn't break" ] 07:40:38 print might be satisfied by the result of 1 > 2, which I don't want 07:40:59 Thank you myname 07:41:12 just make booleans unprintable :p 07:41:20 who needs that anyways 08:03:55 You could use paratheses 08:04:06 print (1 > 2 if ["Math broke"] ["Math didn't break"] 08:04:08 ) 08:04:41 where stuff in parantheses are treated as regular arguments in any other language 08:04:53 that way you can write 5 6 + (concatenativ/stackish) 08:05:07 or + (5 6) or possibly even + (5) (6) 08:06:00 i.e you delay the function and evaluate the stack of the expression in the parantheses first 08:06:03 and then run the function 08:07:49 Uh, any ideas? I have this gstreamer command line that used to work; it involves a multifilesink location='frame%08 err, never mind, I see the problem. 08:08:54 (Was supposed to be frame%08d.jpg but had written frame%08.jpg instead -- it generated the files "frame (nil)g", "frame 0x1g", "frame 0x2g", and so on.) 08:17:12 -!- nooga has joined. 08:19:49 "giblib warning: couldn't load font yudit/12, attempting to fall back to fixed. giblib warning: failed to even load fixed! Attempting to find any font. feh ERROR: Couldn't load font to draw a message" huh 08:20:05 -!- mtve has joined. 08:33:58 lol, i just realized that the Karma page on the wiki still says it is not known whether it is Turing-complete 08:34:50 fizzie: does it actually say 'feh' 08:34:52 and I just found a file on my computer from March 2009 that contains an implementation of BCT in Karma 08:35:00 i should probably post that 08:44:53 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:57:44 oklopol : sounds ok 08:58:32 (the RE and coRE stufF) 08:58:45 ski: Hmm, did you see the question I asked earlier about that? 08:59:59 heh, %08.jpg 09:00:09 Bike: feh is a program 09:00:41 % = start of format specifier 09:01:02 0 = set the zero flag 09:01:14 8 = set minimum field width to 8 09:01:26 . = equivalent to .0, i.e. set precision to 0 09:02:01 j = length modifier (the following format refers to an intmax_t/uintmax_t) 09:02:14 p = void * pointer 09:02:30 a marvellous world of printf specifiers. 09:03:15 I'm pretty sure 0, .0, and j are invalid/undefined with p 09:03:50 and passing an int where a void * is expected is also undefined behavior 09:04:12 but what you end up with is integers printed as memory addresses as if by %8p 09:04:32 oh, and the g is just a g 09:06:39 Sometimes. 09:07:23 boring 09:08:56 -!- nooga has joined. 09:10:24 mauke: Is if (argv[0] && argv[0][0]) { Prog = argv[0]; } a standard idiom for you? 09:11:04 yes 09:11:09 why? 09:13:20 I don't know. Does that exist anywhere else? 09:13:50 I don't know 09:44:55 ski: i mainly meant that i've more often seen arithmetical hierarchy terminology used for this stuff 09:45:26 so like \Pi^0_1 instead of coRE 09:45:54 (not that there's a difference in meaning) 09:48:15 shachaf : no 09:51:40 it was https://plus.google.com/+ShachafBen-Kiki/posts/Bt4CxtttYxP 09:51:52 I don't know how much of that was brought up in the discussion here. 09:55:43 shachaf : perhaps you could repeat the question ? 09:55:46 * ski . o O ( re "split", ) 09:56:04 someone point me at a language that we don't know if it's TC or not 09:56:47 a retract situation consists of one morphism `s : A -> B' and one morphism `r : B -> A', satisfying `r . s = id_A' 09:57:08 `r' is said to be a retraction (of `s'), and `s' is said to be a section (of `r') 09:57:12 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: r': not found 09:57:42 if we define `i = s . r', then `i . i = s . r . s . r = s . id_A . r = s . r = i', so `i' is then an idempotent 09:58:24 (in a retract situation, `r' is also known as a "split epi(morphism)/epic" and `s' as a "split mono(morphism)") 09:59:21 given any idempotent `i', if we can find `r' and `s' such that `r . s = id' (a retract situation), and `s . r = i', then `i' is called a split idempotent, we say that `i' splits 09:59:31 shachaf : perhaps that helps ? 10:01:19 That's yet another thing that's called "split", not the epi or the mono but their composition (in the other direction) 10:01:42 split splat splut 10:01:50 Oh, maybe it's being used as an adjective. 10:02:20 The epi and mono are "split" from the idempotent. 10:02:25 yes 10:02:36 OK. 10:02:46 (that's as far as i understand it) 10:02:50 Anyway, the question in a rough form is in the Google+ post above. 10:03:27 I will probably delete the post later, as I do. 10:03:43 Someone commented so I'd feel a bit bad deleting it. :-( 10:06:24 shachaf : did you see Martín Escardó's "Synthetic topology of data types and classical spaces" in 2004-11 at ? 10:07:21 No. 10:08:47 "Semidecidable property ≈ open set" is mentioned in chapter 1 10:09:25 Oh, well, I've heard that analogy before, sure. 10:10:58 Is that exactly what I'm trying to get at here? 10:13:08 "Given a family `p_i(x)' of properties, in order to observe that the disjunction `\/_i p_i(x)' holds it suffices to observe that one of the disjuncts `p_i(x)' holds. Hence arbitrary disjunctions of observable properties are observable. ..(some qualifications to that).." 10:13:56 btw, everyone: http://esolangs.org/wiki/StackFlow 10:14:06 not bad for 2 and a bit days' work :-) 10:14:23 Qualifications described in a later chapter in that PDF, I guess. 10:14:42 Thanks for the link, I'll probably read it tomorrow or something. 10:15:16 ais523: what is "sufficiently large that the language remains Turing complete"? doesn't that need to be unbounded? 10:15:38 coppro: no, it just needs to be large enough to implement at least one interpreter for a Turing complete language 10:16:19 and I have one that uses 5 stacks, 20 symbols, 41 rules 10:16:33 the program it interprets is input using the initial contents of the stack, which interpreters can't put bounds on 10:16:46 ah 10:16:52 also, I love the markdown 10:17:13 "This is a program implements a cyclic tag system in StackFlow." 10:17:16 thanks 10:17:27 err, right 10:17:29 let me fix that 10:17:37 btw, it's untested because I don't have an interp yet 10:18:27 incidentally, is StackFlow the first esolang designed for literate programming? it may be 10:18:33 perhaps 10:18:42 it does look kind of cool 10:19:21 coppro: I'm not sure what made me think of Markdown-based syntax, but when I did, the opportunity was too good to pass up 10:28:04 ais523: Neat. 10:28:25 (The StackFlow page.) 10:28:41 * shachaf goes to sleep, should have gone 2 hours ago 10:29:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:50:46 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:51:04 (About Time Walk) 10:51:06 "Combos well with a deck." 10:51:44 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Client Quit). 11:02:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:16:53 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:56:38 -!- peapodamus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:58:41 -!- peapodamus has joined. 12:04:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:04:11 -!- ski has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 12:04:24 -!- ski has joined. 12:04:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 12:05:34 -!- qlkzy_ has changed nick to qlkzy. 12:10:19 In Mergesort, does it particularly matter how you divide the list? 12:11:22 Taneb: no, although particularly stupid divisions (like always dividing into 1 element, and the rest) hurt the computational class 12:11:39 *computational complexity 12:12:10 Okay, so just alternating elements is fine? 12:12:54 yep 12:13:20 a good way to think about it is this: if a sort algorithm cares what order the list was in originally, it's probably broken 12:13:20 Sweet 12:14:04 I have a Haskell function called "notQuickSort", which, true to its name, is not quicksort 12:15:02 there are a lot of functions that aren't quicksort 12:15:09 ais523: I wouldn't call a (comparison-)sort function that's O(n log n) worst-case but O(n) best-case for an already-sorted list "broken". 12:15:29 fizzie: it's O(n²) worst case 12:15:34 oh, I see 12:15:41 I wouldn't call that "caring", in that case 12:16:00 in the sense of the output being different 12:16:16 ais523, I was aiming to write Quicksort, but I wasn't including the pivot except in the singleton list case 12:16:25 right 12:16:32 so the pivots just disappear? 12:18:13 Yeah, it was me being stupid. It's fixed now, though 12:32:03 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:52:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:55:54 -!- nooga has joined. 12:58:48 -!- boily has joined. 12:58:59 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:14:31 -!- yorick has joined. 13:16:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:28:50 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:58:01 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:13:33 here's a php puzzle: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/291607?tx=on 14:38:55 "virtual bool aku::PhnReader::next_frame(): Assertion `m_current_frame >= m_cur_phn.start' failed." 14:39:04 Helpful. 14:42:54 fungot: aku PhnReader'nglui Cthulhu fhtagn? 14:42:54 boily: m-- m-1 doesn't work? 14:43:15 fungot: no it doesn't, the m_cur_phn.start fails the assertion. 14:43:15 boily: how big was the code 14:43:18 fungot: big. 14:43:18 boily: and sorry, no :) or :(? it would be 14:44:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 14:44:06 It would be big, yes. 14:44:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:44:10 (It's not all that big.) 14:44:27 I think it doesn't like a gap in this file, is all. 14:54:39 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:54:50 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 15:01:42 -!- conehead has joined. 15:06:24 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:07:03 -!- conehead has joined. 15:15:17 -!- quintopia has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:15:34 -!- tertu has joined. 15:18:24 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:24:27 fungot: you should fix the code 15:24:27 FireFly: i believe. 15:24:36 fungot: stop being creepy 15:24:36 FireFly: give the short example, or a file:// url which refers to my pseudofilesystem. 15:24:45 ._. 15:25:22 I'm fairly sure fungot is sentinent 15:25:23 FireFly: so cl and elisp have it, but i discovered that the library system is intended to provide a way to make 15:25:42 oh yeah, lisp is popular in AI research 15:32:24 pseudofilesystem? 15:32:35 FireFly: it is a well known fact that fungot is sentient. blame fizzie. 15:32:35 boily: in soviet russia, crow scares you!! 15:32:41 FireFly: see ↑ 15:32:56 ._. 15:33:31 fungot: in regular #esoteric, you scare me 15:33:32 FireFly: and it was for computer science, and forcer isn't just going to ask you earlier. i mean even if he explains lots of dynamic libraries :) you already call two internal lambdas, just make your cffi and use mpi... 15:35:41 -!- Bike has joined. 16:17:53 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 16:20:34 -!- Sellyme has joined. 16:21:44 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 16:23:03 -!- Sellyme has joined. 16:28:20 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 16:29:34 -!- Sellyme has joined. 16:35:15 fungot: What, exactly, do you believe? 16:35:15 fizzie: the compiler is happy, " as well" you only need one! :) 16:42:08 * boily gives fungot a loch ness plushie 16:42:09 boily: well as i can't use a serialiser while it's already in use) 16:43:50 what are you serializing, fungot? 16:43:50 mrhmouse: i'd like to have the thread stay alive and accept future messages, i get pretty fnord 16:44:45 pretty fnords. heh ^^ 16:52:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:52:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 16:52:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:53:57 `ello Phantom_Hoover 16:54:00 Phantom_Helloover 16:54:19 impressive 16:54:25 `paste bin/ello 16:54:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/ello 17:00:20 `words 17:00:25 rheiro 17:00:30 `run ello `words 10` 17:00:34 ferello 17:00:41 `run ello "`words 10`" 17:00:45 tesheaf gaya reprovemon egellorguer kalm gester dire warpe ostv fedeipenne 17:01:26 I feel like "tesheaf" should produce "teshellaf" 17:02:31 Ah, I see the issue. It's operating on the list all at once 17:03:22 `run for word in $(words 10); do ello $word; done 17:03:32 holtykkellabellon \ appomellorstag \ fimello \ gaffenello \ albrevello \ lebranello \ wasschedello \ clepellosit \ damello \ acarello 17:04:04 `ello Ngevd 17:04:07 Ngevdello 17:04:11 fungot: It can get pretty fnord if you're trying to serialize a thread, yes. 17:04:12 fizzie: am almost done downloading it. ( which i don't use it any more 17:04:51 fungot: then why are you downloading it? 17:04:51 mrhmouse: it's _not_ a useful observation if the means of a lambda would mean having a regular expression srfi defined actual regular expressions, do it well 17:22:09 Are there any esoteric templating/markup languages? 17:22:30 Specifically, ones that translate to HTML? 17:26:02 fungot: downloading srfis, eh+ 17:26:02 FireFly: actually i think it's just so that i don't 17:26:14 fungot: oh, okay, not downloading SRFIs then 17:26:14 FireFly: yay. i will correct this anyway, it should only work on a ppc, then? lists? 17:26:41 Pretty sure you're talking about srfi-1, fungot 17:26:41 FireFly: just that when i tried 17:27:20 `words --help 17:27:22 Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset 17:27:41 `run words -l | xargs 17:27:44 valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs default: --eng-1M 17:28:04 `run words --german-medical 10 | xargs -n 1 ello 17:28:11 beridiertellome \ akzellon \ gregelseptellom \ pertemototelloniumcin \ retrinmesierello \ silandsello \ lungseinfallello \ pellonsen \ helllyopiege \ krebello 17:28:16 mrhmouse, I haven't heard of any. Not sure how you could go about creating an interesting one either. Interesting idea though. 17:39:32 -!- atrapado has joined. 17:42:45 * peapodamus switches to #esoteric 17:42:49 PEAPODAMUS IS IN THE HOUSE 17:42:51 ┏(-_-)┛┗(-_-)┓┗(-_-)┛┏(-_-)┓ 17:43:23 lol dead channel 17:43:28 * peapodamus switches to #Windows95 17:43:34 PEAPODAMUS IS LEAVING THE HOUSE 17:43:35 ┏(-_-)┛┗(-_-)┓┗(-_-)┛┏(-_-)┓ 17:43:38 \o_ _o/ \o/ 17:43:38 | | | 17:43:39 >\ >\ >\ 17:44:10 woohoo 17:44:12 party on 17:44:18 party on mothafucka party on 17:44:18 wo 17:44:19 wo 17:44:19 wo 17:44:20 The party is now on. 17:44:21 party on 17:44:22 so on 17:44:23 woohoo 17:45:01 O O 17:45:14 what was the ocular pattern for myndzi? 17:45:32 O.O 17:45:35 (or firework, or whatever that flowery thing is supposed to be) 17:45:37 O | O 17:45:43 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:45:48 \/ 17:46:15 U+1F440 (f0 9f 91 80): EYES [👀] 17:46:20 ~party 17:46:21 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 17:46:31 `party 17:46:33 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: party: not found 17:46:38 `celebrate 17:46:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: celebrate: not found 17:48:05 `wl lala 17:48:08 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 17:48:18 oh. Win/Lose 17:48:52 `rot256 secret 17:48:54 secret 17:49:05 `rot0 secret 17:49:07 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rot0: not found 17:49:52 `cat `type -p fsck` 17:49:56 cat: `type -p fsck`: No such file or directory 17:50:47 `ln -s /usr/bin/cat /hackego/bin/rot0 17:50:49 ln: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ln --help' for more information. 17:50:53 `run ln -s /usr/bin/cat /hackego/bin/rot0 17:50:55 ln: creating symbolic link `/hackego/bin/rot0': No such file or directory 17:51:04 `run ln -s /hackego/bin/rot0 /usr/bin/cat 17:51:05 ln: creating symbolic link `/usr/bin/cat': Read-only file system 17:51:10 `run cat `type -p fsck` 17:51:13 cksum /dev/urandom 17:51:50 methinks that will not terminate 17:51:57 `fsck 17:52:12 ln operand order is like cp 17:52:22 o.o 17:52:29 Oh, not that either 17:52:32 `run ls -l /hackego/bin/rot256 17:52:58 !celebrate 17:53:00 No output. 17:53:04 Hm 17:53:06 ls: cannot access /hackego/bin/rot256: No such file or directory 17:53:17 `run ls -l `type -p rot256` 17:53:19 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 9 Sep 25 13:06 /hackenv/bin/rot256 -> /bin/echo 17:53:33 ^celebrate 17:53:33 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 17:53:33 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 17:53:34 /| c.c |\ /< | | /< c.c >\ | |\|/< c.c /| 17:53:34 /´¯|_) /´\ 17:53:34 (_| (_| |_) 17:53:36 There we go 17:53:39 FreeFull: tsk, you had the wrong directory. 17:53:40 c.c! 17:53:49 thanks FireFly. 17:54:22 `wl 17:54:25 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 17:54:34 :( 17:55:27 Is hackenv/bin not in PATH? 17:55:48 Should be 17:55:55 Weird 17:55:58 `run echo $PATH 17:56:00 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 17:56:08 I have rot0 in there but HackEgo errors when I try to run it 17:56:12 -!- monotone_ has joined. 17:56:18 `wl en de hippopotamus 17:56:20 Flusspferd 17:56:21 `run rot0 /dev/urandom 17:56:23 bash: rot0: command not found 17:56:30 `run /hackenv/bin/rot0 /dev/urandom 17:56:32 `run ls -l bin/rot0 17:56:32 bash: /hackenv/bin/rot0: No such file or directory 17:56:34 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 12 Jan 16 17:54 bin/rot0 -> /usr/bin/cat 17:56:36 -!- monotone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:56:38 Oh 17:56:39 `which cat 17:56:41 ​/bin/cat 17:56:55 Stupid error messages 17:57:36 Made it echo rather than cat anyway 17:57:40 `rot0 Meow 17:57:42 Meow 17:58:23 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to polytone. 17:58:28 `wl en de Xenos 17:58:42 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/wl", line 52, in \ q = query(continue_id) \ File "/hackenv/bin/wl", line 44, in query \ response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen \ return _opener.open(url, data, timeout) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/ 17:58:53 Yay erros 17:59:29 `wl en de Xenos 17:59:32 My hovercraft is full of eels. 17:59:40 yay. 17:59:49 (It was meant to do that.) 17:59:50 I thought that was hu→en 17:59:57 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/wl is a fun read 18:00:54 FireFly: you have to find any wikipedia page with empty 'languages' block. 18:03:03 I see 18:03:30 `wl sv en Pero micca 18:03:33 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 18:03:55 `wl sv en "Pero micca" 18:03:56 `run wl sv en "Pero micca" 18:03:56 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:03:58 You get NOTHING! You LOSE! Good DAY sir! 18:03:59 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/wl", line 52, in \ q = query(continue_id) \ File "/hackenv/bin/wl", line 44, in query \ response = urllib2.urlopen(url).read() \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/urllib2.py", line 126, in urlopen \ return _opener.open(url, data, timeout) \ File "/opt/python27/lib/ 18:04:15 `````````````````````````````````````````````````` 18:04:16 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `````````````````````````````````````````````````: not found 18:04:32 `thankjames 18:04:33 `cat bin/` 18:04:34 Thanks, James. Thames. 18:04:35 exec bash -c "$1" 18:05:40 `` echo 123 18:05:43 123 18:06:18 `` echo $PATH 18:06:20 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin 18:08:08 `env PATH 18:08:11 env: PATH: No such file or directory 18:08:20 I guess you have to grep it 18:08:26 oh, right, it takes a command to run 18:09:16 int-e: huh? a special `thank case? 18:11:15 `perl -e'$,=",";print @ARGV,"\n"' $PATH 18:11:17 Scalar found where operator expected at -e line 1, near "'$,=",";print @ARGV,"\n"' $PATH" \ (Missing operator before $PATH?) \ syntax error at -e line 1, next char $ \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors. 18:11:20 `̀thanks thanks 18:11:22 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ̀thanks: not found 18:11:40 `` perl -e'$,=",";print @ARGV,"\n"' $PATH 18:11:42 ​/hackenv/bin:/opt/python27/bin:/opt/ghc/bin:/usr/bin:/bin, 18:13:26 boily: Apparently, though I have no idea why. 18:13:42 `` cat $(type -p thankjames) 18:13:44 thanks James 18:14:33 `` echo ${PATH//:/ } 18:14:36 ​/hackenv/bin /opt/python27/bin /opt/ghc/bin /usr/bin /bin 18:16:08 -!- conehead has joined. 18:16:24 `which run 18:16:26 No output. 18:16:43 `run which `run 18:16:45 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 18:16:54 `` which run 18:16:56 No output. 18:17:00 `run which run 18:17:02 No output. 18:17:04 * int-e shrugs 18:17:13 * boily wobbles 18:17:23 * int-e bounces 18:17:58 `run than run! 18:18:00 that* 18:18:01 bash: than: command not found 18:20:38 `info 18:20:40 info: Writing node (dir)Top... \ File: dir,Node: TopThis is the top of the INFO tree \ \ This (the Directory node) gives a menu of major topics. \ Typing "q" exits, "?" lists all Info commands, "d" returns here, \ "h" gives a primer for first-timers, \ "mEmacs" visits the Emacs manual, etc. \ \ In Emacs, you can click mouse bu 18:21:33 `` echo $IRC_SOCK 18:21:36 No output. 18:24:11 `man ls 18:24:14 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 18:24:26 `vi 18:25:01 I guess it didn't like that 18:25:04 Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[2;1H[1m[34m~ [3;1H~ [4;1H~ 18:25:06 `cat /hackenv/share/maze.c 18:25:08 main() { asm("xor %edi, %edi\n" "inc %edi\n" "mov %rsp, %rsi\n" "go: movl $0xb195e2, (%rsi)\n" "rdtsc\n" "and $1, %al\n" "add %al, 2(%rsi)\n" "mov %edi, %eax\n" "xor %edx, %edx\n" "mov $3, %dl\n" "syscall\n" "jmp go"); } 18:25:12 (huh?!) 18:25:28 hackenv is cwd I'm fairly sure 18:25:42 `pwd 18:26:17 `run pwd 18:26:32 poor thing 18:26:36 hm. it is stuck. 18:26:45 * boily unsticks HackEgo with his trusty mapole 18:27:09 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:27:31 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 18:27:57 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:28:30 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:28:30 -!- glogbackup has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:29:01 ​/hackenv 18:29:21 ​/hackenv 18:30:22 good boy 18:30:59 good mapole 18:38:01 ~metar CYUL 18:38:01 CYUL 161800Z 21006KT 15SM FEW030 FEW120 M01/M08 A2996 RMK CU1AC2 CU TR SLP147 18:38:56 http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1336/15/1336155252526.jpg 18:39:41 heh 18:39:45 :D 18:40:04 Oh look, here's Urist! 18:41:34 -!- atrapado has joined. 18:51:01 I should go back to dorf fortress 18:51:03 it has been a while 18:51:26 `? tanea 18:51:33 Tanea plays Minecrafs, Dware Fortresr, and lives in Hexhal. 18:52:31 *playr, anc liver im? 18:52:54 `run sed -i s/Hexhal/Yorj/ wisdom/tanea 18:52:57 No output. 18:53:43 Let's create a new world! 18:53:57 A fuck huge world 19:04:05 and call it Yorj! 19:04:32 (I like the sound of “Yorj”. /jɔʁʒ/) 19:05:46 "Oh this looks like a great place to build a fortress!" 19:05:49 *snow everywhere* 19:05:50 Noooo 19:10:42 ~eval "With an updated cabal..." 19:10:43 "With an updated cabal..." 19:13:44 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:18:26 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:18:52 -!- augur has joined. 19:19:15 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:23:33 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:26:10 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:34:03 "Minecrafs", is there a point to that typo? 19:34:21 `? .doorstop 19:34:24 You do not have the clearance necessary to view this entry. 19:42:12 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:47:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:50:44 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:52:08 -!- nchambers has joined. 19:56:39 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:57:51 int-e: yes 19:58:05 the same point as with the other typns in that line 19:58:12 -!- Bike has joined. 20:05:17 -!- augur has joined. 20:05:38 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:10:01 typns typns typns typns typns... ♪ 20:10:06 -!- heroux has joined. 20:20:28 -!- nchambers has changed nick to DTSCode. 20:30:42 -!- DTSCode has changed nick to DTSCode-Work. 20:35:35 boily: I can't help but read that as a Patapon chant 20:35:45 ~duck patapon 20:35:45 Patapon is a video game published for the PlayStation Portable handheld game console combining gameplay features of a rhythm game and a god game. 20:36:19 You do chants to spur your little force of warriors on in battle, or to give them commands such as "retreat". 20:37:38 I don't have a PSP :( 20:37:59 I want to control little characters by rhythming unpronounçable syllables! 20:38:50 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:39:47 boily: I don't own a PSP either, I've only seen the game and thought it interesting. 20:40:59 * boily scands “tnuctip tnuctip tnuctip tnuctipun” 20:51:52 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 20:53:08 I don't own a PSP either, but I have an annoyingly long list of PSP games that I'd like to play 20:53:33 * FireFly swats Nippon Ichi for not making more games for Nintendo consoles 21:11:22 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:14:41 -!- CADD_ has joined. 21:14:59 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:16:11 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:19:39 -!- FreeFull has joined. 21:23:48 ~echo test 21:23:48 test 21:24:10 ooookay... something weird happened to the metasepia logs. now everything is in bold light blue... 21:24:39 \033[1;31mtest 21:24:58 '[1;31mtest 21:25:18 `run echo -e '\e[1;31mhi boily' 21:25:28 ​[1;31mhi boily 21:25:35 hm 21:25:42 it worked. bold red. 21:26:00 `run echo -e '\e[0mnormality!' 21:26:02 ​[0mnormality! 21:26:13 Maybe you want to strip control sequences 21:26:25 maybe I really want to strip that stuff. 21:26:35 oh well. time to disappear in the Great Cold Outside. 21:26:41 -!- boily has quit (Quit: REFRIGERATED CHICKEN). 21:26:42 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:26:59 `run echo $'\004aare you using irssi?\004a' 21:27:01 ​aare you using irssi?a 21:27:54 * FireFly wonders what ^D would be mnemonic for 21:28:09 "dammit" 21:28:10 oh, maybe some kind of extended colour thing? 21:28:20 considering it's one after ^C 21:28:57 Most of the other IRC formatting control-codes are mnemonic, so I figure ^D would be too 21:29:03 -!- Bike has joined. 21:30:14 `run echo $'are you using \004 are you using I wish I was, now, since I'm curious what I'm missing out on 21:31:55 \004a is 21:32:02 \004 hell yea 21:32:58 Ah 21:33:00 well, I'm seeing red ^D for 004 :) 21:34:10 using irssi with http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/colorhack.pl 21:35:14 "The eval function works with text variables to implement a powerful text macro facility." hey Gregor did your evil eval paper mention matlab because i've got some choice quotes here 21:38:08 IT IS TIME TO TRY TO BAKE A CAKE 21:38:17 godspeed 21:39:05 A class of functions, called "function functions," works with nonlinear functions of a scalar variable. That is, one function works on another function. 21:40:16 functional. 21:56:25 * ski . o O ( `@(x,v) x .* v + w' ) 21:56:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:58:50 ski: thanks for the reference to that paper yesterday, looks relevant to something or other that i'm probably trying to figure out 21:59:01 will know more after reading it 22:05:10 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:07:11 "Weak Limited Principle of Omniscience" is a p. hesitant name 22:07:34 i don't recall whether i asked you whether you had seen Steven Vicker's "Topology Via Logic" 22:07:40 shachaf : hehe 22:08:32 -!- nchambers has joined. 22:08:37 also "Lesser Limited Principle of Omniscience" 22:08:44 (not the same thing) 22:08:46 ski: I have seen it -- we talked about "topological systems" as related to Chu spaces at one point. 22:09:10 (I don't remember who recommended it to me before, but thanks for the recommendation if it was you.) 22:09:13 (Hmm, it probably was.) 22:11:40 -!- DTSCode-Work has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:12:03 ,,, 22:12:21 also LEM/PEM is called PO (Principle of Omniscience) by Bishop 22:16:35 (and Markov's Principle, MP, is considered an Omniscience Principle (though not a Brouwerian one, but a Markovian one). so reducing something to it amounts to a Markovian (counter-)example, rather than a Brouwerian (counter-)example) 22:17:34 shachaf : did the Escardó paper mention WLPO, or which ? 22:17:55 http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~mhe/papers/universe-indiscrete.pdf did 22:18:23 Which is related to a different question I was asking at one point. 22:19:13 hm, interesting, haven't read this one before 22:22:17 , 22:27:55 -!- atrapado has joined. 22:29:47 whoa, Andrej Bauer responded to my post 22:30:48 "There is another, fancy aprroach to this, called synthetic topology. Instead of doing all this computable stuff we just do ordinary topology, but we do it in intuitionistic logic. Then we can interpret such intuitionistic topology in any topos. When we pick the effective topos, we get back exactly computable topology." 22:31:53 -!- nchambers has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:32:54 Hang on 22:32:58 I was going to make a cake 22:33:17 so is there a Greater Principle of Ignorance 22:36:36 I Don't Know. 22:38:28 `espletive 22:38:30 befuck 22:39:07 apparently there's a Hawking's Principle of Ignorance. 22:39:21 `cat bin/espletive 22:39:23 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\+fuck\w*" || espletive 22:40:30 `espletive 22:40:30 is 5000 too high? it (potentially) reduces the number of invocations, but I wasn't sure how much work `words is doing 22:40:33 brainfuck 22:40:57 never heard about that language 22:41:01 ever. 22:41:04 `espletive 22:41:06 brainfuck 22:41:25 `run for f in $(seq 10); do espletive; done | xargs 22:41:28 Hrm. Seems to be stuck there. Earlier I got oozlybubblefuck, which doesn't appear on the wiki. 22:41:41 blangintfuck brainfuck madbrainfuck befucks minifuck hydrainfuck alpainfuck infuck drainfuck rainfuck norfuck brainfuck 22:42:21 a good program. 22:42:34 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:42:41 maybe it should have infix fucks (infux) too 22:42:54 -!- augur has joined. 22:42:59 Bike: it should. "\w\+fuck\w*" 22:43:14 it matched befucks at least 22:45:41 oh missed that. 22:47:46 `run sed -i 's/espletive/exec espletive/' bin/espletive 22:47:50 No output. 22:47:53 `espletive 22:47:59 brainfuck \ norfuck \ brainfucks 22:48:04 wat 22:48:10 `revert 22:48:12 Nice job 22:48:23 Done. 22:48:26 `espletive 22:48:29 infuck 22:48:44 oh of course 22:49:07 you cannot exec while you're still running other commands in the pipeline :P 22:49:16 but wait 22:49:25 you _shouldn't_ be doing that, should you 22:50:43 `` while ! words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\+fuck\w*"; do :; done 22:50:47 crainfuck 22:51:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:36 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:53:07 `` sed -i 's/fuck/${1-fuck}' bin/espletive 22:53:09 sed: -e expression #1, char 16: unterminated `s' command 22:53:24 `` sed -i 's/fuck/${1-fuck}/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:53:28 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\+${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive 22:53:37 `espletive 22:53:40 brainfuck \ skullfuck 22:53:44 `espletive funk 22:53:47 memfuck 22:53:53 `run repeat 5 espletive 22:54:07 crainfuck thatefuck celiumbrainfuck minifuck brainfuck ballfuck memfuck 22:54:30 `cat repeat 22:54:31 cat: repeat: No such file or directory 22:54:43 `run cat $(which repeat) 22:54:45 args=$* \ for f in $(seq $1); do ${args[@]:1} ; done | xargs 22:54:53 `` sed -i 's/$/"$@"/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:54:57 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\+${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive"$@" 22:55:08 `` sed -i 's/"/ "/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:55:12 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\+${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive"$@" 22:55:17 meh. 22:55:19 `revert 22:55:21 Done. 22:55:35 `` sed -i 's/"\$/ "$/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:55:39 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\+${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 22:55:46 `espletive funk 22:56:03 no funk? or did I mess this up completely now? 22:56:17 No output. 22:56:25 `espletive brain 22:56:31 pbrainstateflip 22:56:47 `espletive 22:56:50 infuck 22:56:56 int-e: very nice :) 22:57:07 i could imagine no \w+funk 22:57:35 someone with better sed skills than me should change that + to a * 22:58:09 `run words --esolangs 5000 | wc 22:58:11 ​ 1 25 203 22:58:14 `` sed -i 's/\+/*/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:58:14 `run words --esolangs 5000 | wc 22:58:19 ​ 1 25 178 22:58:21 `run words --esolangs 5000 | wc 22:58:21 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 22:58:23 ​ 1 25 185 22:58:37 `` sed -i 's/\\*/*/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:58:41 ​*words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w\*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 22:58:51 int-e: methinks \* is not the same as * 22:58:56 hah, no. 22:58:58 `revert 22:59:00 ok if it only has one line, wtf does it sometimes print more than one hit 22:59:01 Done. 22:59:02 mrhmouse: it's not. 22:59:07 `` sed -i 's/\\\*/*/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 22:59:11 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 22:59:29 oerjan: you mean when we were running it in loops? 22:59:37 `run repeat 5 espletive 22:59:47 infuck wordfuck migolfuck brainfuck memfuck golfuck norfuck 22:59:54 mrhmouse: no, it did that sometimes even when run once 22:59:56 can words --esolangs 5000 fail? 23:00:14 int-e: it can, hence the recursive tail 23:00:41 `` for i in $(seq 10); do words --esolangs 5000 > /dev/null || echo fail!; done 23:00:43 well, `grep can fail... I don't actually know if `words can fail. 23:00:48 No output. 23:01:16 I'm still confused how espletive can produce several words in a single run. 23:01:37 oh, never mind 23:02:15 Didn't know about that `` shortcut for `run... 23:02:57 whoa 23:03:46 `espletive 23:03:52 brainfuck 23:03:57 `espletive 23:04:01 timefuck \ brainfuck 23:04:08 magic! 23:04:23 oh.. oh! 23:04:26 `cat bin/espletive 23:04:27 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 23:04:34 It's because `words sometimes produces multiple lines 23:04:44 does it? 23:04:46 and sometimes more than one line matches the regex 23:04:51 That must be it 23:04:53 `run words --esolangs 5000 | wc 23:04:53 `` sed -i 's/-o/-o -m 1/' bin/expletive; cat bin/espletive 23:04:54 | 23:04:54 >\ 23:04:55 ​ 1 25 166 23:04:55 sed: can't read bin/expletive: No such file or directory \ words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 23:05:05 `run words --esolangs 5000 | wc 23:05:07 `` sed -i 's/-o/-o -m 1/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 23:05:07 | 23:05:07 ​ 1 25 185 23:05:07 /^\ 23:05:11 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o -m 1 "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" 23:05:19 mrhmouse: i haven't managed to make it do that... 23:05:36 -o/, really? 23:05:39 `run words --esolangs 5000 | wc 23:05:42 ​ 1 25 204 23:05:48 umm 23:05:55 What happened with my output 23:06:15 `` echo a b c | grep -o '[^ ]' 23:06:17 a \ b \ c 23:06:23 `run words --esolangs 50 | wc 23:06:25 `` echo a b c | grep -o -m 1 '[^ ]' 23:06:26 ​ 1 25 181 23:06:27 a \ b \ c 23:06:35 so -m doesn't help. grmbl. 23:06:38 `revert 23:06:41 Done. 23:06:50 head -n 1 ? 23:07:20 `` sed -i 's/||/| head -1 ||/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 23:07:23 oh -o takes more than one hit? 23:07:24 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" | head -1 || espletive "$@" 23:07:32 oerjan: yes 23:07:49 from man grep: Print only the matched (non-empty) parts of a matching line, with each such part on a separate output line. 23:09:27 that'd do it. 23:09:37 this proved more amusing than I thought it would... 23:10:08 `espletive 23:10:10 No output. 23:10:22 YOU DON'T SAY 23:10:31 (head might always succeed) 23:10:36 grand. 23:11:11 oerjan: oh. hmm. 23:11:45 maybe after the recursive call? 23:11:54 yeah. 23:12:00 `revert 23:12:03 Done. 23:12:22 the number of nested processes isn't going to reduce by this... 23:12:28 `` sed -i 's/$/ | head -1/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 23:12:32 words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" || espletive "$@" | head -1 23:12:33 do we care? 23:12:40 `espletive 23:12:43 haifuck 23:13:08 -!- atrapado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:13:45 We *could* turn it into a loop. 23:13:52 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:15:08 `` sed -i 's/\(.*\)||.*|/while ! \1; do :; done |/' bin/espletive; cat bin/espletive 23:15:12 while ! words --esolangs 5000 | grep -o "\w*${1-fuck}\w*" ; do :; done | head -1 23:15:31 `espletive 23:15:35 norfuck 23:15:39 `espletive brain 23:15:42 brainlove 23:15:57 `espletive normal 23:16:16 Now that Andrej Bauer commented on my post I don't want to delete it anymore. :-( 23:16:28 No output. 23:16:42 shachaf: fiendish 23:17:21 oerjan: are you happier now? 23:17:38 slightly 23:17:39 is oerjan a fiend 23:17:50 `espletive hell 23:17:55 clearly i'm a fr?iend 23:18:06 will you buy my soul 23:18:08 hell 23:18:32 sorry, all out of infernal cash 23:19:33 `espletive argh 23:19:40 `espletive gon 23:19:45 forthagonal 23:19:54 argh 23:19:55 Now I want to make forthagonal 23:20:13 that does sound promising 23:20:23 `` espletive ' ' 23:20:28 pointer minimallenter 23:21:24 `run for i in $(seq 5); do espletive gon; done | xargs 23:21:38 ` espletive .* 23:21:40 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found 23:21:51 shogonatorycombie thagonal pogonata pogonata thagonal 23:22:04 oh 23:22:07 `espletive .* 23:22:10 redcodan iota zt xsm q-ball /// c-lon rever2pi bytejump nump redgree kayak tree aargfak p'' tri divzeros bf-pda tg that trits objector mine adjust tlwnn 23:22:54 Oh well. Validation of arguments is left as an exercise to the first one to complain about this feature. 23:25:05 `espletive sex 23:25:16 `` espletive '[0-9]\{2\}' # surely this is a feature 23:25:18 ozone9000 23:25:36 No output. 23:25:42 Why am I not surprised? 23:26:35 int-e: istr searching for "sex" on the wiki and the only mention was ironically on Taneb's user page. although that was whole-word only. 23:27:52 `espletive ex 23:28:01 hex 23:29:37 well, not as a substring either on either of language or joke language lists 23:30:07 -!- augur has joined. 23:30:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:32:57 -!- peapodamus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:34:49 -!- peapodamus has joined. 23:57:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:59:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).